# We missed the boat



## Turelie (Jul 22, 2010)

HannibalLecter said:


> "If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the principal difference between a dog and a man. "
> -Mark Twain


That's very true. There's no guarantee that treating a person well will ensure reciprocation of the same, and many will take advantage of that for their own sake (such as the cease fires to build up war resources again). I think that is beside the point.


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## HannibalLecter (Apr 18, 2010)

Pika said:


> That's very true. There's no guarantee that treating a person well will ensure reciprocation of the same, and many will take advantage of that for their own sake (such as the cease fires to build up war resources again). I think that is beside the point.


If we were to treat these people nice, would they treat us nicely in return? No. 
If we were to treat these people just as they treat us (awfully), would they treat us nicely in return? No.
If we were to convert to Islam and turn America into a modern-day Mecca, would they treat us nicely in return? Yes. However, at far too great an expense: freedom.
They shan't stop until no.3 becomes a reality, and (I hope) most of us will never let no.3 happen, thus we have two main choices: ignore/be nice to them, or be violent. I prefer the latter. I prefer retaliation. Retaliation may be our only possibility of keeping option no.3 from becoming a reality.


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## Turelie (Jul 22, 2010)

HannibalLecter said:


> If we were to treat these people nice, would they treat us nicely in return? No.
> If we were to treat these people just as they treat us (awfully), would they treat us nicely in return? No.
> If we were to convert to Islam and turn America into a modern-day Mecca, would they treat us nicely in return?


I'm not contesting any of those three points as I'm familiar with how Muslims treated Christians, Jews, etc when they conquered and converted countries way back when. I also would never be so naive as to assume that if you're nice to someone that they will automatically be nice back, as I already said.

The whole walking on eggshells with Muslims (or any other group!) does get old, but I don't think retaliation is going to help anything. If you retaliate, it becomes a never ending cycle where you get cease fires, sides build up again, and then the fighting starts over. We've seen this in the Middle East for years.

That being said, there's a difference between retaliation and defense (I'm not talking about 'pre-emptive' defense either). Retaliation by its very nature invites a like response.


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## xezene (Aug 7, 2010)

HannibalLecter said:


> If we were to treat these people nice, would they treat us nicely in return? No.


Results are not the aim of treating people with kindness. If that is one's attitude towards his or her relationships, that person is a vulture.

On a side note, I would be fairly blown away if this started a war.


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## Mendelevium (Jan 16, 2010)

xezene said:


> Results are not the aim of treating people with kindness. If that is one's attitude towards his or her relationships, that person is a vulture.
> 
> On a side note, I would be fairly blown away if this started a war.


People are so oddly touchy, though.


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## HannibalLecter (Apr 18, 2010)

xezene said:


> On a side note, I would be fairly blown away if this started a war.


Is there not already a war? A jihad?


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## xezene (Aug 7, 2010)

HannibalLecter said:


> Is there not already a war? A jihad?


Be careful what you read. I have met many Muslims who adamantly deny any such jihad, and are very kind people. As I'm sure you know, the purpose of the media is to make money, not to give you the truth. They have quotas.

There are extremes on every spectrum, those who are get most noticed.


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## HannibalLecter (Apr 18, 2010)

xezene said:


> Be careful what you read. I have met many Muslims who adamantly deny any such jihad


I never said that each and every Muslim is involved.


> and are very kind people.


I know.


> As I'm sure you know, the purpose of the media is to make money, not to give you the truth.


Hence my signature.



> There are extremes on every spectrum, those who are get most noticed.


On these forums, I always see people - or, should I say, liberals - criticizing Christianity in general for the acts of a few. What do these few Christians do? Picket.
However, these same liberals always remind us to never generalize all Muslims based on the (extremely violent) acts of a few.
I'm just trying to even the odds.


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## Steve (Jul 3, 2010)

Wow, lots to comment on. Thankful yet annoyed at the same time.




sarek said:


> The problem is with those who blindly follow them. Whatever happened to turning the other cheek and to not doing unto other what they would not want done unto themselves?
> What happend to the greatest virtue of all, love? What happened to asking God to forgive our sins so that we may forgive our enemies in turn? Can you tell I am not a Christian? Yet I do believe in the words of Christ.


Nail > Head. There are many, many blind people in America you could say. Almost half. I'm not a Christian myself either, but I have my own views and ideas. I cannot explain it, but I cannot deny it.




HannibalLecter said:


> If you go back to the origins of Islam, you'll see that Mohammed was responsible for beginning the Muslim tradition of "conquer and convert". It continued for many centuries and, one could argue, is happening today at a different level.


That plays a big part in why America is in war right now, trying to abolish Al Qaeda. 




HannibalLecter said:


> cf. First Amendment.


The First Amendment also gives me the right to flip off a Cop and tell him to stick it where the sun don't shine, but the thing about America is it's a lot of smoke and mirrors. The government doesn't always, in fact rarely always plays by it's own rules.




HannibalLecter said:


> So you are proposing Martial Law?


Not me. But we'll see.



HannibalLecter said:


> Yet he is not committing, as far as I can tell from what I've been informed of the situation, any crime. It is not illegal to burn books. It is not illegal to insult people - or even to call for their execution. It is not (yet) illegal to offend Muslims.


Nope. Just putting thousands of lives at direct risk for his ignorant protest.



HannibalLecter said:


> Muslims are pouring the salt on the wound by building the Mosque at Ground Zero in the first place!


Not Muslims, Muslim Extremists. This is something a lot of people don't understand. Muslims are not bad people. Muslims did not run a plane into our WTC. Muslims are normal people like... well like some of us here. Al Qaeda, on the other hand... is equivalent to the Christian KKK. There are extremists on every playing field. Do we blame Christians for the acts of the KKK? No, we don't. So being angry at Muslims for building a Mosque near the WTC Site (I hate it when people call it Ground Zero.) is unjust, and like many people in America, blindly ignorant.



HannibalLecter said:


> I with I were but, unfortunately, this country of mine doesn't tolerate preparedness. Also, in Canada, his actions might just be illegal as well. However, as a Canadian, I can tell you that you definitely do not want America to take on these warped, freedomless Canadian ways where it is illegal to cause offense, or to insult the government via any form of telecommunications, and gun ownership is extremely rare and difficult; and especially not the British way, where it is possible to be arrested for spitting on the street (i.e. ASBO).
> In America, the First Amendment is a supreme ordinance. Nothing can override it. In Canada, the second article of out so-called "Rights and Freedoms" gives us freedom of speech, whereas the first article states that the following articles can be overridden when need-be.


Preparedness? Let me guess, you're a French Canadian aren't you.




wafflecake said:


> It's a community center.


You know, a place where Muslim kids can go play when ignorant asshole New Yorkers pick on them for being Muslim. Btw Dylan rules.



alanv said:


> The last decade has been the fire that will start the reform of Islam.


It's not America's job to reform Islam. But then again when has America cared about that sort of thing.



alanv said:


> Christianity went through its own reformation in the 16th century. Muslims need to learn how to take criticism. Is it a contradiction to support freedom of religion (the "ground zero mosque") when it benefits Islam,


It doesn't benefit Islam, it benefits Muslim people in New York who are undoubtedly treated differently because they are Muslim. 


alanv said:


> and then protest freedom of speech (burning the quran) when it is used to provoke Islam? Why are they so special?


Take this idea and run with it for a bit. In the middle east there are a bunch of Muslims, most of them are nice people just living their life. Then there are the few extremest assholes (like the KKK) who are constantly spreading hate messages of America and such, trying to convert people to Al Qaeda. Most Muslims know that these people a twits and want nothing to do with them. But unfortunately kids are kids and have a had time knowing what to believe is right, especially in these times. Now, let's assume this guy in Florida goes through with his plan. Millions of Muslims see this guy burning their holy book, and assume that's what _all_ of America thinks. Can you say Al Qaeda numbers in the green? Kids will be recruited first, they are simple to manipulate, especially when "America" is burning their holy books. Then undoubtedly their families would be blackmailed into joining. Suicide bombings and attacks on AMERICA'S MILITARY will be an all time high. 

I'm not saying what he's doing is against the _law_, I'm just saying he couldn't have picked a worse time in all of history.




Pika said:


> I started to write up a paragraph or so, but I believe, as a Christian, this answers well enough for me: Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, "Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord." To the contrary, "if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals on his head." Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. (Romans 12:19-21) If a Christian really views the Muslims as one's enemy, then this is the proper response. Burning a Koran seems more like incitement and spite than showing mercy and love.


You'd be surprised how many people in America are the "Do as I say, not as I do" types.




HannibalLecter said:


> If we were to treat these people nice, would they treat us nicely in return? No.
> If we were to treat these people just as they treat us (awfully), would they treat us nicely in return? No.
> If we were to convert to Islam and turn America into a modern-day Mecca, would they treat us nicely in return? Yes. However, at far too great an expense: freedom.
> They shan't stop until no.3 becomes a reality, and (I hope) most of us will never let no.3 happen, thus we have two main choices: ignore/be nice to them, or be violent. I prefer the latter. I prefer retaliation. Retaliation may be our only possibility of keeping option no.3 from becoming a reality.


Religion: the cause of all great wars.
Who do you mean "These people"? Any Muslim I've treated nice has treated me twice back. It seems you have little faith in anyone but yourself. But your sig, "Trust no one!" should be awarded to your own self as well. 



HannibalLecter said:


> On these forums, I always see people - or, should I say, liberals - criticizing Christianity in general for the acts of a few. What do these few Christians do? Picket.
> However, these same liberals always remind us to never generalize all Muslims based on the (extremely violent) acts of a few.
> I'm just trying to even the odds.


You best be trollin. That statement alone tells me you live in a cabin and don't interact with people enough. Out of everyone I've ever met in this world, Liberals have been the most sincere and peace loving people. In America there is a new spectrum of left and right and it goes something like the following.

Neo-Conservatives (Bluntly religious, ignorant, racists, blind sheeple)
Conservative (Follows the "old way", Constitution huggers)
Moderate (Has varying views)
Liberal (Looks to the future, trys to bend the rules)
Liberal-Douche (Hipsters, plays into the fads and trends, blind sheeple)

You are associating all Liberals with the latter Liberal-Douche section, just as you accuse Liberal-Douches of blaming all the problems on regular Conservatives. If you don't know the American culture, I suggest you stay away from accusations and generalizations. 

Ok, I'll be Frank, you can be Sally. What I'm really trying to get across here is America is skating a narrow line of thin ice. Big business interests are essentially controlling America at this point. With lobbying, television and media influences, the rich get richer and the poor get more fines, contracts and "sign heres". ACTA will be coming to America soon and if you don't know what that is then I highly suggest you do some research. We have been involved in an illegal war for several years now, and this provoking strike in Florida will likely extend it's timeline. Half the people in America are blindly led sheeple and get all their political information from places like Fox News, word of mouth from three people away. Our children are being fed nonsense music on the Radio and have slutty "Teen Stars" to look up to for guidance. There will be another revolution, don't even think twice.


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## HannibalLecter (Apr 18, 2010)

Steve said:


> Nope. Just putting thousands of lives at direct risk for his ignorant protest.


He has that right. It is those who may retaliate with violence for his nonviolent act that are to be responsible.




> Not Muslims, Muslim Extremists.


A Muslim is not necessarily a Muslim Extremist, but a Muslim Extremist is _still_ a Muslim.



> This is something a lot of people don't understand. Muslims are not bad people. Muslims did not run a plane into our WTC.


Yes, Muslims did. Not _all_ Muslims, but some Muslims.


> Muslims are normal people like... well like some of us here. Al Qaeda, on the other hand... is equivalent to the Christian KKK.


Was the KKK truly distinctly Christian?


> So being angry at Muslims for building a Mosque near the WTC Site (I hate it when people call it Ground Zero.) is unjust, and like many people in America, blindly ignorant.


I simply ask "Why?"
Why would they want the stigma of building a mosque within vicinity of two buildings which were destroyed by Muslims (as I made clear before, they are just as Muslim as they are Extremist)?



> Preparedness? Let me guess, you're a French Canadian aren't you.


*Good God No!*




> You know, a place where Muslim kids can go play when ignorant asshole New Yorkers pick on them for being Muslim.


Just as the Italians pick on the Germans, the Germans pick on the Irish, the Irish pick on the Hispanic, and so on. Well, I think it was that order, it's been awhile since I read Harpo Marx's autobiography.



> It's not America's job to reform Islam. But then again when has America cared about that sort of thing.


America tries to change everything.



> It doesn't benefit Islam, it benefits Muslim people in New York who are undoubtedly treated differently because they are Muslim.


It could benefit Muslims if it were in a different location. First off, there is no Muslim population in that area; secondly, surely the treatment they will receive by locals with be dehumanizing.



> Take this idea and run with it for a bit. In the middle east there are a bunch of Muslims, most of them are nice people just living their life. Then there are the few extremest assholes (like the KKK) who are constantly spreading hate messages of America and such, trying to convert people to Al Qaeda. Most Muslims know that these people a twits and want nothing to do with them. But unfortunately kids are kids and have a had time knowing what to believe is right, especially in these times. Now, let's assume this guy in Florida goes through with his plan. Millions of Muslims see this guy burning their holy book, and assume that's what _all_ of America thinks. Can you say Al Qaeda numbers in the green? Kids will be recruited first, they are simple to manipulate, especially when "America" is burning their holy books. Then undoubtedly their families would be blackmailed into joining. Suicide bombings and attacks on AMERICA'S MILITARY will be an all time high.


What if he were an Imam planning on burning the Bible?



> You'd be surprised how many people in America are the "Do as I say, not as I do" types.


Yes, I've noticed.




> Religion: the cause of all great wars.


Though propagation of religion does not always start the war.



> Who do you mean "These people"?


Terrorists, Extremists, etc.



> Any Muslim I've treated nice has treated me twice back.


I don't know any Muslims; WickedQueen is nice, though.




> You best be trollin. That statement alone tells me you live in a cabin and don't interact with people enough.


1. I rarely interact with people; however, the principal people with whom I do interact are Liberals.
2. I stated "On these forums". 




> You are associating all Liberals with the latter Liberal-Douche section


All liberals - except at least one, I must say - whom I have met online and with whom I have debated.



> just as you accuse Liberal-Douches of blaming all the problems on regular Conservatives. If you don't know the American culture, I suggest you stay away from accusations and generalizations.


I interact with Americans online everyday.




> Fox News, word of mouth from three people away.


Why does _everybody_ always seem to complain about Fox News?



> Our children are being fed nonsense music on the Radio and have slutty "Teen Stars" to look up to for guidance. There will be another revolution, don't even think twice.


I want for there to be a revolution. Society is very shitty right now, it is only getting worse and I believe a good revolution will be perhaps one of the only thing to save it..


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## blackandindie (Nov 30, 2009)

Sounds like cowardice at it's best. I for one am not surprised, and could possibly surmise that we all saw this one coming..


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## Steve (Jul 3, 2010)

I can tell this is going to be a fun thread.




HannibalLecter said:


> He has that right. It is those who may retaliate with violence for his nonviolent act that are to be responsible.


He does have that right, but like I said, it doesn't make his _decision_ right. He's using his religion as a scapegoat for his own hatred of another religion, and spreading that hate. He's scum in my eyes.



HannibalLecter said:


> A Muslim is not necessarily a Muslim Extremist, but a Muslim Extremist is _still_ a Muslim.


That's exactly what I said.



HannibalLecter said:


> Yes, Muslims did. Not _all_ Muslims, but some Muslims.


Then by saying Muslims caused the problem is generalizing them all, and influencing the negative. Using the term Al Qaeda is more appropriate and accurate. 



HannibalLecter said:


> Was the KKK truly distinctly Christian?


Protestant Christian, yes. If you're interested, google "Christian terrorism".



HannibalLecter said:


> I simply ask "Why?"
> Why would they want the stigma of building a mosque within vicinity of two buildings which were destroyed by Muslims (as I made clear before, they are just as Muslim as they are Extremist)?


And as I said before, Al Qaeda is much more appropriate. You don't hear me saying "Christians burned a cross on my black neighbors lawn" do you?



HannibalLecter said:


> *Good God No!*


Oi, you's one of them mountain folk?



HannibalLecter said:


> Just as the Italians pick on the Germans, the Germans pick on the Irish, the Irish pick on the Hispanic, and so on. Well, I think it was that order, it's been awhile since I read Harpo Marx's autobiography.


And here I thought modern America was above such petty violence. Does that not mean we should try to stop it? Or according to your own words, should we just let ignorant hate continue unabridged?



HannibalLecter said:


> America tries to change everything.


Unfortunately.



HannibalLecter said:


> It could benefit Muslims if it were in a different location.


Not at these prices baby, NY is expensive.



HannibalLecter said:


> First off, there is no Muslim population in that area; secondly, surely the treatment they will receive by locals with be dehumanizing.


 First what makes you think that, second huh?



HannibalLecter said:


> What if he were an Imam planning on burning the Bible?


If he were in America, he would probably be shot, probably by this asshole in Florida (yes he's weilding a gun now). If he were in the middle east, Nothing would probably happen because American's are generally too self-absorbed to pay attention to news of the middle east, let alone news in general.

We're are war with them, in their country, illegally I might add, not the other way around.



HannibalLecter said:


> Yes, I've noticed.


And you don't think there's a problem with that, or what?



HannibalLecter said:


> Though propagation of religion does not always start the war.


huh?



HannibalLecter said:


> Terrorists, Extremists, etc.


There ya go!



HannibalLecter said:


> I don't know any Muslims; WickedQueen is nice, though.


The Muslim I know best is my pot dealer. Nice girl, she's from Turkey.



HannibalLecter said:


> 1. I rarely interact with people; however, the principal people with whom I do interact are Liberals.
> 2. I stated "On these forums".


Oh my bad. 



HannibalLecter said:


> All liberals - except at least one, I must say - whom I have met online and with whom I have debated.


Then you're talking to the wrong liberals. I'm slightly Liberal, mostly Moderate, and I have nothing bad to say about anyone's religion. But I will say that some people are fucking stupid.



HannibalLecter said:


> interact with Americans online everyday.


No difference, you have no idea of American culture unless you've grown up here really. Shit is wild.



HannibalLecter said:


> Why does _everybody_ always seem to complain about Fox News?


Because it's trash.



HannibalLecter said:


> I want for there to be a revolution. Society is very shitty right now, it is only getting worse and I believe a good revolution will be perhaps one of the only thing to save it..


Glad we can agree, and yes there will be a revolution. I can sense it like I've never known anything better in my life.


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## HannibalLecter (Apr 18, 2010)

Steve said:


> Not at these prices baby, NY is expensive.


They're spending $100,000,000 on it, aren't they?


> First what makes you think that, second huh?


 1. News article from Daily Mail
2. How would you expect the Muslims to be treated by the people who were there at 9/11?



> If he were in America, he would probably be shot


What is the basis of this conclusion?


> probably by this asshole in Florida (yes he's weilding a gun now).


1. He has the right to "[wield] a gun now".
2. He is "wielding a gun now" because of numerous death threats.



> If he were in the middle east, Nothing would probably happen because American's are generally too self-absorbed to pay attention to news of the middle east, let alone news in general.


How often to you read the news? News of the Weird occasionally offers news articles dealing with this stuff. Westerners don't care about the Bible all that much anymore; a few months ago, one of the articles was about a "modern art museum" ("modern art" itself being an oxymoron) in which they had the Bible [sitting?] there and people would write blasphemes in it, as I recall; I'll look for the link later. 



> We're are war with them, in their country, illegally I might add, not the other way around.


They instigated it.



> illegally I might add


To me, that phrase - when dealing with the ongoing war - has always sounded stupid to no end.



> And you don't think there's a problem with that, or what?


Yes, I do; however, if I were to write of my experiences with those types of people (Liberals, mainly), I'd get another lecture. . .


> huh?


Sometimes wars are waged to spread religion - like what the Muslims did in the Middle East, Africa, and Asia - and other times wars are waged to eradicate religion, as was done by Hitler.




> The Muslim I know best is my pot dealer. Nice girl, she's from Turkey.


You're a liberal, aren't you? [good humor]



> Oh my bad.


I make certain to add clauses subtly such as that to most of my arguments; few recognize them, so I always come out on top.



> Then you're talking to the wrong liberals.


These are some of the most egotistical people I know of; one says things along the lines of "it's hard being better than everybody else, but there is some comfort to it..."


> I'm slightly Liberal, mostly Moderate, and I have nothing bad to say about anyone's religion.


That seems typical of moderates. I've read much on various political systems and have come to the conclusion that "quasi-anarchism" (i.e. just about libertarianism) is best. I may have missed some good ones, though. 




> But I will say that some people are fucking stupid.


Some?


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## Black Rabbit (Apr 15, 2010)

This is an event that will blow over quietly. I doubt there will be any government intervention for logistical reasons. Why jump into a *******'s mess when barely getting out of the mess in Iraq? They'll let him have his 15 seconds of fame, allow the press to ridicule his intelligence and enforce negative right winged Christian stereotypes.

It does make a great story for the press though.


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## HannibalLecter (Apr 18, 2010)

Troisi said:


> This is an event that will blow over quietly.


I read that there are to be protests; and I would not put it passed some Muslims for there to be bloodshed.


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## Black Rabbit (Apr 15, 2010)

HannibalLecter said:


> I read that there are to be protests; and I would not put it passed some Muslims for there to be bloodshed.


I imagine so. Do you think it would escalate beyond that?


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## HannibalLecter (Apr 18, 2010)

Troisi said:


> I imagine so. Do you think it would escalate beyond that?


Probably no more than the Jyllands-Posten Muhammed controversy.


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## Ming (Apr 7, 2010)

I have no interest in such matters. People are fickle. Always concentrating on the one negative aspect.

BTW the media got quite a good story! Good job to them!


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## marked174 (Feb 24, 2010)

Pika said:


> I started to write up a paragraph or so, but I believe, as a Christian, this answers well enough for me:
> 
> Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, "Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord." To the contrary, "if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals on his head." Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. (Romans 12:19-21)
> 
> If a Christian really views the Muslims as one's enemy, then this is the proper response. Burning a Koran seems more like incitement and spite than showing mercy and love.


The context of the scripture you provided implies how to treat individuals, not groups of people. "Feed him" rather than "feed them". Enabling a voilent group of people will not quell their violence. 
Seriously, with all the documented history that we have, I do not understand why we don't teach people fundamental tactics in collective conflict in our schools. We should know by now that outright intolerence, persecution, and rejection of a particular belief only makes it spread that much further. We saw it with the Romans vs. Christians, then we saw it again with the Catholics vs. the Protestants. Resistance to a religion only makes it stronger.
If you really want to destroy a religion or belief system, then you must respond not with zeal, but rather indifference. The battlefied is not in books or countries or even ideas. This war has always been fought over each individual person's mind. If you tell a person that his beliefs are incorrect, he might contend; but if you tell him that his beliefs are *destructive, then you are also telling him that his beliefs are significant. People tend to hold on to the things they find significant. It is only when you can convince a person that his beliefs are irrelevent that you will find that person llay his passioned beliefs aside. You must communicate to the zealous that it simply does not matter what they believe. A book consumed by fire will enflame it's words into a man's very soul, but a book consumed by dust will only find it's place in the library of the forgotten.*


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## Steve (Jul 3, 2010)

I've avoiding this thread for... various reasons, many of which involve the time of year and my current financial standings. 

Anyway, the event is over and to say the least I think it went fairly well. Have a look at a video I find particularly interesting.








> People tend to hold on to the things they find significant.


I like it!


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## NiDBiLD (Apr 1, 2010)

This thread is amusing.

What's exceptionally fun is that some of you actually think that this started at 9/11.

Yeah. Right. The Al Qaida started it. Bin Ladin and his guys spontaneously decided to provoke the world's only superpower by crashing those hijacked planes into the WTC. *That's* how it all started. Because that is conveninent. By deciding that's the starting point you guys can put the blame on someone else and justify every military action in muslim countries from then on.

And before 9/11, nobody really remembers what happened cause that's when time started, basically. Nobody remembers the first gulf war, and nobody remembers that Israel - a country that happens to have a 60 years old conflict going on with several muslim countries in the middle east - was the largest recipient of US aid money between 1976 and 2004. Nobody remembers USA oil politics. Nobody remembers the USA's political involvment in middle east politics at all. Nobody remembers how all of this really started.

Of course these muslim terrorist guys didn't really have a reason for blowing your stuff up. They just did it, cause they are jealous of your freedom.

Maybe they wouldn't be so jealous of your freedom if you pulled back the troops to your own continent and stopped interfering with middle east politics. Cause then they wouldn't need to be jealous. Cause then they would have their own freedom, lol.


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## Trainwreck (Sep 14, 2010)

I kind of wish both sides, those dumb enough to be angered by the burning of fiction and those dumb enough to burn fiction to piss off the other side, could just kill one another off without taking any decent, moral, and intelligent individuals with them.


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## azrinsani (Jul 31, 2010)

First of all thanks for starting this thread. I'm a Muslim and I've just red this thread from the beginning. The way I see it is that burning the Quran is an act to ignite muslim anger. We respect our holy book cause we believe it's the word of god. Same thing about the prophet Muhammad. We love him so much that we are offended if people make fun of him. 

As a westerner, I can understand that you may find this intolerable. You may think that Muslims should relax a bit and take a chill pill. But this is our culture and it is sensitive to us. 

A lot of things are sensitive to different groups of people. Take example the African Americans... they'd be sensitive if you call them with the "N" word. Same as the Jews, they'd be sensitive if you deny the holocaust.


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## Black Rabbit (Apr 15, 2010)

Troisi said:


> This is an event that will blow over quietly. I doubt there will be any government intervention for logistical reasons. Why jump into a *******'s mess when barely getting out of the mess in Iraq? They'll let him have his 15 seconds of fame, allow the press to ridicule his intelligence and enforce negative right winged Christian stereotypes.
> 
> It does make a great story for the press though.


Was I right?


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## Trainwreck (Sep 14, 2010)

delete****************************

wrong thread lol


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