# Dualization?



## Writ (Jan 17, 2013)

I'm not sure if this has been asked before... I did a quick search and didn't anything as specific. Has anyone actually EXPERIENCED this mystical thing called dualization?

Thanks!


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## zelder (Apr 17, 2011)

Yes, I've been married to a dual for 11 years. We are an INTj/ESFj partnership. We married very young, had similar goals, beliefs and values. We were not accustomed to interaction with a dual. Furthermore, she was raised by a neurotic, narcissistic mother with accompying baggage and I had my own short comings. Consequently, we had some difficulties working out misunderstandings and other issues. The most difficult time of the relationship was actually the dating period (which was a very short period). The second most difficult time was the first year of marriage. The relationship has sweetened with time and experience. 

After 11 years, we love spending time together, we love talking and working on projects together. The idea of ever getting divorced seems absured. It's never going to happen. We are very happy together. 

I'm not sure if this answer helps. Feel free to ask me any questions.


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## cyamitide (Jul 8, 2010)

Writ said:


> I'm not sure if this has been asked before... I did a quick search and didn't anything as specific. Has anyone actually EXPERIENCED this mystical thing called dualization?


That depends on what you mean by dualization. I've been around my duals as I think most people have run into their dual at one points in time or another. Are there some specific things you want to know?


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## Figure (Jun 22, 2011)

Man, it's really hard for me to describe what duality feels like - mostly because I know that the time I have spent with SEE always seems to appear much better in hindsight than it did during the "experience."

I don't think that's a bad thing for duality as a concept though. The very nice thing about it, in my experience, has been that it's very difficult to tell that it's there at all. I don't see duality itself as some wild experience you get a rise out of (though in the case of ILI, activities from duals may be that way) - it's more like a release of the "subconscious" tension you don't even know you have while speaking with people of other types, in translation.

I've had dual friends throughout my life, and can comfortably say that had someone alerted "hey you're with a dual and your mental state will be suboptimal away from them," I would have said "well, what's so great about things now?" Of course, those periods seem euphoric in my train of memory now, because the missing piece seems much more significant post-duality. 

Around SEE, I don't notice anything out of the ordinary relative to the moment, but that's the real beauty. There is no need for translation to others, because there are few to no pieces missing. There isn't really a need to re-think others' thoughts in terms of your own. The relationship is a way of avoiding the thought of knowing you lost something - because as soon as I'm not around them, the comfort disappears, and seems significantly more pleasant than I had realized at the time. I don't believe duality is about novelty per se, I believe it's about naturality.


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## 2fast4u2 (Oct 3, 2011)

edit:


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## Writ (Jan 17, 2013)

@cyamitide did you spend a lot of time with one of your duals?


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## cyamitide (Jul 8, 2010)

Writ said:


> @_cyamitide_ did you spend a lot of time with one of your duals?


I've had some casual associations with my duals, meeting them here or there through social groups and classes, but nothing too deep or permanent like marriage or family.


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## Writ (Jan 17, 2013)

Thanks, I guess I dont have specific questions. Just wanted to know what personal experiences or opinions people had on the concept. It seems very ideal. Of course, everyone's gonna say 'follow your heart" not a theory. But still, I want to know what people have actually encountered. Maybe I'm thinkng more along the line of a long stable relationship with a romantic partner, or even a friend. Does your dual really pick up and help you on your weaknesses or sore spots? 

I'll share something 

I remember the first time I heard about intertype relations, I became very observant and kind of a nut on typing other people. I was at a party and was scoping around the room trying to guess people's types. I saw someone who seemed very inconspicuous, and was picking up trash. We were both volunteers, and that was my job but I just wanted to watch the oscars so I was paying more attention to the show. He ended up doing the one chore that I was assigned for the night, and I kinda thought, wow I would have never noticed this guy doing my job...Later, we were standing near the other volunteers and he asked me for my name and contacted me a few days later. It wasn't a good time for either of us to be dating but we did it anyway and I sometimes wonder what would have happened if we had managed to stay in a relationship with each other. I really felt like this guy understood something about me, and I, him. I wasn't sure of his type back then but now I'm pretty certain that it was a dual experience. 

I met someone later at a summer job, fundraising door-to-door. He was very attractive to me. Tall, tan, skinny but athletic with large eyes and dark hair. He had a tendency to be brutally honest, yet still popular simply because he was the top seller at work and very concise with his words. He called himself a nice douchebag. It was embarassing because I was always looking at him. Like, as if I had something to say to him but couldn't bring myself to speak. (Typical me, having a crush on someone.) There was only one time that we were alone together. I felt like a child. I had quit right in the middle of the street because I was fed up. We walked to his place nearby, because his knee was hurting and he couldn't continue. We were alone in the living room together... and we didn't really say much but it felt like there was a lot of trust. I really miss him. 

Ever since those fleeting experiences, I've been ... what can I say... optimistic that life has lots of nice surprises


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## Kintsugi (May 17, 2011)

Dual relationships are good for helping me develop my weaknesses and 'blind-spots.' I've never actually been romantically involved with my 'dual type,' but I have many friends, work colleagues, and family members who I _think_ fall into this category. 

I've never been romantically attracted to my dual but do find that I am naturally drawn to them in working environments. Simply put, we 'get' each other and generally work well as a team. They are great at getting me to FOCUS on the task by pulling me out of my head ('Kooky-land') and into the present; as well as teaching me the importance of DETAILS (which I am allergic to, by the way :tongue.

I think I'm good at helping bring them out of their little world filled with facts and details by encouraging them to consider other possibilities. Obviously, this is a very simplified way of describing the dynamic. At times being around a dual can become frustrating for me; especially when either one of us are stressed/unhealthy. I have experienced this most with my father. Unfortunately, instead of helping me develop my weaknesses; his emotional immaturity and egocentric tendencies have often had the averse affect. His way of dealing with our differences was to try and dictate and control me and point out what he perceived as my 'shortcomings' and 'in-competencies'. Obviously, I was no saint in all of this. My hurt and wounded ego has caused me to reject a lot of his advice; causing me to become narrow-minded and short-sighted at times.

It's easy to get caught in the idea of the 'perfect' or 'dual' relationship. In all honesty, it can help us understand different ways of perception; but to become too reliant/dependent on an external structure to help us understand interpersonal relationships, is, IMO, unhealthy. Obviously, the more self-aware you are, the less likely this will be. Still, even for the healthiest of us, the risk is still there; and for that reason I am wary when it comes to reading other _subjective _interpretations of these theoretical dynamics.


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## zelder (Apr 17, 2011)

Writ said:


> Does your dual really pick up and help you on your weaknesses or sore spots?


It does indeed help with weaknesses. It coddles your weak and vulerable 4th function and really helps with the weak super-id functions especially the 5th function. I'm catastrophically weak in Fe and my dual fills that void and I can even exert some Fe of my own with her around. It feels so good. I love it. 

For me the initial attraction was the pleasant good converstions I enjoyed with her. As I stated previously, I had never had any interaction with a dual, she was my first dual friendship but she was the first girl I could enjoy long converations with. We would talk for hours, this was something I had not been able to experience with anyone. We could spend all day together and I would never get sick of her. She was so different yet so comfortable to be with. She did most of the talking but whenever I wanted to say something she was genuinely fascinated by me. The comfortable companionship and conversation was the main attraction for me.


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## Cantarella (Sep 3, 2010)

What about bad dual experiences? I have had a couple pretty nasty ones with LSEs who were much older than me and above me in the hierarchy, sometimes at the very top with me at the bottom, but I can see how meeting an LSE with similar goals who was my own age could be pretty amazing. I'm dating an IEI but eager to meet and befriend more people from my own quadra.


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## Cantarella (Sep 3, 2010)

KookyTookie said:


> At times being around a dual can become frustrating for me; especially when either one of us are stressed/unhealthy. I have experienced this most with my father. Unfortunately, instead of helping me develop my weaknesses; his emotional immaturity and egocentric tendencies have often had the averse affect. His way of dealing with our differences was to try and dictate and control me and point out what he perceived as my 'shortcomings' and 'in-competencies'. Obviously, I was no saint in all of this. My hurt and wounded ego has caused me to reject a lot of his advice; causing me to become narrow-minded and short-sighted at times.


Okay, yes, this has basically been my experience with LSEs. Often I've stood by while they screamed something at me about having "no common sense" and tried to force me to do things their way. Also, many of them have had plenty in common with my unhealthy ESE mother and that alone has caused me to make harsh judgments about them. I would so love to meet a healthy LSE closer to my own age. :blushed: Until now I've been going for LIEs and ILIs, burning them and getting burned, and I really thought duality was some sort of hoax. HOW do I find my dual??


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## cyamitide (Jul 8, 2010)

Writ said:


> I'm not sure if this has been asked before... I did a quick search and didn't anything as specific. Has anyone actually EXPERIENCED this mystical thing called dualization?
> 
> Thanks!


found this article on dualization
not sure how closely it describes the experiences of dual pairs but here it is: Making Duality Work 
@_ningyo_ @_zelder_ @_KookyTookie_ @_Little Cloud_ @_Gilgamesh_ @_Slimblue_ @_GreenCoyote_ @_Oldlady_ @_Teybo_ you guys might be interested in this


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## Sol_ (Jan 8, 2013)

Writ said:


> Has anyone actually EXPERIENCED this mystical thing called dualization?


Duals are 1/16 or population. So almost everyone had dualisation effects during conversations and even watching on these people.
Much lesser of people had a dual as close friend/pair. There are many things wich affect with what people we make close relations besides Jungian types.


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## Kintsugi (May 17, 2011)

ningyo said:


> Okay, yes, this has basically been my experience with LSEs. Often I've stood by while they screamed something at me about having "no common sense" and tried to force me to do things their way. Also, many of them have had plenty in common with my unhealthy ESE mother and that alone has caused me to make harsh judgments about them. I would so love to meet a healthy LSE closer to my own age. :blushed: Until now I've been going for LIEs and ILIs, burning them and getting burned, and I really thought duality was some sort of hoax. HOW do I find my dual??


In all honesty I think emotional maturity influences and impacts a relationship far more significantly than 'type.' I mean, how do we know we aren't just projecting onto others when we try to type them anyway? 

I refuse to believe in all the hype about 'duality'.


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## Cantarella (Sep 3, 2010)

KookyTookie said:


> In all honesty I think emotional maturity influences and impacts a relationship far more significantly than 'type.' I mean, how do we know we aren't just projecting onto others when we try to type them anyway?
> 
> I refuse to believe in all the hype about 'duality'.


Yeah, sadly I can understand where they're coming from wanting to change me because I honestly wish I could punch so many LSEs in the face and make them better people. Even though I'm no beta NF, I actually prefer beta STs to delta STs most of the time... until we start duking it out, but I think there's actually enough of a psychological gap that politeness prevents this. I also wonder if static types just relate more to static types and dynamic types to other dynamic types. I LOVE LSIs, and I mean love, but male LSIs feel more like brothers to me than soulmates.


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## GreenCoyote (Nov 2, 2009)

cyamitide said:


> found this article on dualization
> not sure how closely it describes the experiences of dual pairs but here it is: Making Duality Work
> @_ningyo_ @_zelder_ @_KookyTookie_ @_Little Cloud_ @_Gilgamesh_ @_Slimblue_ @_GreenCoyote_ @_Oldlady_ @_Teybo_ you guys might be interested in this


yeah just read this article yesterday. good stuff.
its the only article that explains the reason why I turn into an aggressor around my LSI friend. 

I think somewhere in the article it states how you can't tell which, the LSI or EIE is the aggressor and which is the victim. 

I have experienced this first hand. I start yelling and get into this charged state of emotions. I sometimes feel guilty about being like that cause most people find it stressful I think. Hey the LSI might even find it stressful but not once did he mention it and also has said several times that he needs to be in a relationship with a "Bitch"

I highly enjoyed the emotional discharging even though I am pretty sure I am IEI. 


I also related to the relationship of LIE and ESI. My friend is an ESI and we get into a huge blowout about every three months with reconciliations where we make up and are friends again. Just the same as she would with her dual the LIE. 

so with first hand experience I can say that this article is pretty accurate.


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