# What makes NFs like art or music so much?



## Epicyclic (Aug 7, 2014)

I've been playing music for quite a long while. Not very good at it, but oh well. 

For me, I've always viewed it in a matter of fact way - sounds nice, yes, but never to the extent that one could go all head over heels over. Seems like the NFs here like it a lot, based on what I see. 

Can you guys describe it more?


----------



## Deejaz (Feb 19, 2014)

It's usually _metaphoric_,_ harmonious_, a sweet way to appeal the _feels_. There are many ways to view music and art, the different perspectives can be endless, this is interesting~ a window to the composers soul as well as making a connection with your own. It is the expression of the soul, the heart.. the _deep_ things that most of us might love.


----------



## Reluctanine (May 11, 2014)

Well, for me, it feels like I'm a soda bottle walking through life. I get shaken up and banged here and there by everything life throws at me. It could be pleasant or unpleasant. A rollercoaster ride is fun! Being dropped into a well isn't so fun. But either way, there's a build-up of bubbles inside me.

Creating art helps let out some of the bubbles. It clears my mind and heart so I can appreciate the bubbles I have even more. Experiencing art lets me know I'm not the only one with bubbles inside me.


----------



## umop 3pisdn (Apr 4, 2014)

Ethics and Aesthetics are always grouped together in Philosophy.


----------



## Windblownhair (Aug 12, 2013)

For me, its all about finding meaningful connections. There may be a particular song that I've enjoyed for years, but something will happen in my life, and suddenly it fits incredibly well. That song instantly becomes intertwined with those feelings and those memories, and from then on out, I'll connect all those elements together.

There's also an element of getting to use my Ni to the fullest with ambiguous lyrics. I like trying to find the pattern, to understand the metaphors, to piece together the hints to find a unifying idea.


----------



## ai.tran.75 (Feb 26, 2014)

I don't think it's an NF trait - although I do love art and writing . But I find isfp to be extremely artistic - probably the most


----------



## ALiedIsm (Oct 26, 2014)

> I don't think it's an NF trait - although I do love art and writing . But I find isfp to be extremely artistic - probably the most


I'd say this too - one trait can't be exclusive to just one type. One of my friends (he is an INTJ) plays guitar and sings. He makes his own lyrics and seems to get really into the music and the feels. First time I heard him play and sing I couldn't believe it for he is a straight facts-guy whom values knowledge and usually hides his emotions. However when he's playing he's not that emotionless.

I found this interesting:



> It's usually metaphoric, harmonious, a sweet way to appeal the feels. There are many ways to view music and art


----------



## Epicyclic (Aug 7, 2014)

Deejaz said:


> It's usually _metaphoric_,_ harmonious_, a sweet way to appeal the _feels_. There are many ways to view music and art, the different perspectives can be endless, this is interesting~ a window to the composers soul as well as making a connection with your own. It is the expression of the soul, the heart.. the _deep_ things that most of us might love.


Can you elaborate more about the connection? 

Window to the composer's soul - I'm normally emotionless when I play. Not sure whether this is just me or all STJs or what, but yeah.


----------



## Deejaz (Feb 19, 2014)

Epicyclic said:


> Can you elaborate more about the connection?
> 
> Window to the composer's soul - I'm normally emotionless when I play. Not sure whether this is just me or all STJs or what, but yeah.


It's not always about the emotion (though it can be pretty big especially when singing).. for different people, it could be the lyrics, the sounds, or all of them together. You can be pouring your heart out through your music, it does not have to be through emotions. It can be that it is how the inner 'feelings' or 'thoughts' are expressed through music. Emotion is a language, music and art is a different language~ sometimes it is even more complex, because it communicates inwards.

The artist does not have to be full of emotions when they paint, it is the artwork itself that portrays this~ even things we can't put into words.. things that only evokes powerful thoughts or feelings.


----------



## damiencortex (Aug 20, 2014)

Music is just fun


----------



## twistedblade056 (Oct 26, 2014)

Epicyclic said:


> I've been playing music for quite a long while. Not very good at it, but oh well.
> 
> For me, I've always viewed it in a matter of fact way - sounds nice, yes, but never to the extent that one could go all head over heels over. Seems like the NFs here like it a lot, based on what I see.
> 
> Can you guys describe it more?


Art, in general, is where someone expresses idea.

That is why NFs are so attuned to expressing themselves through some art form - to express heightened emotional awareness with their ideas.

They don't really revel in music & art just because "it sounds nice" or something to that effect. They're there for the "susbtance", not by "what it looks like" although you will have a hard time communicating the substance if you don't properly arrange how it looks like.


----------



## Cygnet (Oct 28, 2014)

Music, for me, is a way of escape. Either escape to a physical place through connections that I have made myself with a particular song or an emotional one based on the intended meaning. If there are several meanings, all the better. I like to analyse lyrics to gain an understanding of not only what the message is, but why the songwriter believes it. I like words and the many meanings they can convey when placed in different sentences and how they sound when they are pronounced by different voices. Instrumental albums can completely change my mood, and that's an incredibly powerful thing. I highly doubt I would have been able to get through high school without Nujabes' music... It helped me remain focused whilst making me feel less nervous. Music is just such a powerful medium, able to convey emotions, ideas or simply as a process of self expression.

As far as art goes, I'm really quite ignorant


----------



## Epicyclic (Aug 7, 2014)

thewillowtree said:


> Art, in general, is where someone expresses idea.
> 
> That is why NFs are so attuned to expressing themselves through some art form - to express heightened emotional awareness with their ideas.
> 
> They don't really revel in music & art just because "it sounds nice" or something to that effect. They're there for the "susbtance", not by "what it looks like" although you will have a hard time communicating the substance if you don't properly arrange how it looks like.


Can you elaborate what "substance" means? I know the cause and effect pattern that somehow, if you play it a certain why it leads to your "substance" and magically, they come out so happy. What happens in this substance and magic, I have no clue. 

As for visual art I don't know, I never did it.


----------



## Antipode (Jul 8, 2012)

Everything is a story to me. I'm a writer and love stories, so when I see art or listen to music I picture stories in my head that correlate.

That'd be why I enjoy it.


----------



## Cthulhu And Coffee (Mar 8, 2012)

It's the idea of having my own world to live in where I control everyone and everything = I


----------



## TheINFJ (Apr 12, 2014)

I'm more into modern art forms like video games than, say, paintings. Also, I'm into Architecture, which I consider to be a form of art.

Regardless though, the motive behind creating them is the same; to express your core values. When I'm creating a game, or drawing up blueprints for some building idea, etc, I'm expressing what I believe to be important in this world, in a way that can't really be expressed with words. 

The same applies to music. I enjoy listening especially to Christian music, especially because of the applicability of the lyrics to my life as a Christian. 

I guess that just shows how much meaning I put into music, because I _really_ can't stand music that talks about drugs, alcohol, sex, or partying. How am I to relate to that?


----------



## Im FiNe (Oct 17, 2013)

Epicyclic said:


> *What makes NF's like art or music so much?*


It's required by law. If we don't they repossess our crystals, rainbows, and unicorns. :laughing:
:tongue:






:blushed:

As others have already shared, the visual and performing arts are media for expression and communication that allow for exchange of concepts, ideas, and emotions in different, more meaningful, or more complete ways than can be done by words alone.


----------



## damiencortex (Aug 20, 2014)

Yes @TheINFJ, Architecture too! Cezanne was also into that. IM Pei, Gaudi. I'm also into art deco for reasons I'm vague about.


----------



## 121689 (Jun 21, 2014)

Music, art and writing are my escape. They're all something I can get lost in, something that takes me away from the world when I need a break. And when I'm alright again, I can come back and show the world the things I've discovered, things that I think need to be shared. I can help people through these escapes. That's my goal in life, as idealistic and cheesy as that sounds. I just want to impact society for the better through what I'm passionate about.


----------



## Epicyclic (Aug 7, 2014)

TheINFJ said:


> The same applies to music. I enjoy listening especially to Christian music, especially because of the applicability of the lyrics to my life as a Christian.
> 
> I guess that just shows how much meaning I put into music, because I _really_ can't stand music that talks about drugs, alcohol, sex, or partying. How am I to relate to that?


I do know of NF people who enjoy music for the melody or instrumental parts, even if the lyrics are stuff they object to. Some Christian NFs too. 

How do you guys reconcile these sort of thing?


----------



## Cygnet (Oct 28, 2014)

Epicyclic said:


> I do know of NF people who enjoy music for the melody or instrumental parts, even if the lyrics are stuff they object to. Some Christian NFs too.
> 
> How do you guys reconcile these sort of thing?


I can't speak for everyone, but I don't. Very rarely will I ever enjoy a song that is about drugs, alcohol, sex, or partying. Unless there's some kind of sarcasm or parody behind it, I don't support it. I just see it as shallow and in a lot of cases, simply lazy songwriting. I don't like idea that I'm perpetuating the presence of subject matters that I don't think kids should really be exposed to (because naturally, they'll be drawn to what is popular). If we all stopped buying these songs, eventually there would be less of them. There's plenty of good music out there in all genres that better contain better messages.

Damn, I turned bitter pretty quick.


----------



## ShadowsRunner (Apr 24, 2013)

There's no rules getting in the way, just the freedom to express your soul.


----------



## Epicyclic (Aug 7, 2014)

CloudySkies said:


> There's no rules getting in the way, just the freedom to express your soul.


I beg to differ here. From what little I know, art has no rules - only on the surface. AFAIK, every art form has plenty of unwritten rules about what constitutes good and bad art. Pretty much, these rules are learned in an instinctive, subconscious manner - not explicitly. 

Of course, there aren't any rules when you listen or enjoy the stuff. 

Or maybe that's the difference between how a NF and SJ approaches art? SJs are very good at boiling things down into rules and norms to follow.....


----------



## Cygnet (Oct 28, 2014)

Epicyclic said:


> I beg to differ here. From what little I know, art has no rules - only on the surface. AFAIK, every art form has plenty of unwritten rules about what constitutes good and bad art. Pretty much, these rules are learned in an instinctive, subconscious manner - not explicitly.
> 
> Of course, there aren't any rules when you listen or enjoy the stuff.
> 
> Or maybe that's the difference between how a NF and SJ approaches art? SJs are very good at boiling things down into rules and norms to follow.....


In a very strict (or perhaps commercial sense), there are rules that determine what is good and bad art. That said, what constitutes 'good'? That others like it, that it will sell for a large amount of money or it shows technical prowess? I write some poetry which I'll probably never share with anyone else so none of the criteria really apply (what's technical prowess if no one sees it?). I still like writing it in the same way that I enjoy the work of others. Art gives you the freedom to express what you want, regardless of whether it is good or not.


----------



## Cygnet (Oct 28, 2014)

don't mind this


----------



## Eudaimonia (Sep 24, 2013)

feelings that art inspires would be of more interest to more feeling type people I would assume


----------



## nO_d3N1AL (Apr 25, 2014)

At a guess, the ability to abstract an image or sound and associate it with something personal/emotional. Reading into what a piece of art could mean or trying to imply along with the emotional value attached to it (hence, "liking", since things that invoke emotions are more memorable for F types).


----------



## The_Wanderer (Jun 13, 2013)

It's this thing that human beings tend to like. And, well, NF's are human beings too. Usually.


----------



## Makoa (Jul 3, 2014)

Because they are ways for us to connect with others in an indirect but awesome way. 

We as humans invented dance and music to connect with one another.


----------



## Alomoes (Oct 5, 2014)

I listen to what I can, and yeah, I agree with Cygnet. Hence why I listen to wordless music.


----------



## Winegums (Sep 8, 2014)

To me music is my pillar of strength that I use when I'm feeling down. I use it when I'm sad to bring my spirits up, and I use it to bring some fun into my life. Music is a beautiful wonderful sensation when you have a full band going at it on stage. The noise, emotion, passion, and excitement combines into this living thing that takes you on a journey. There's very few things that can compare to playing music for me, it floods me with positive emotions and leaves my body tingling. My best friends are my band mates and there's very few hours that pass when we're together where we don't talk about music.


----------



## The_Wanderer (Jun 13, 2013)

I'm not so sure it's an _NF_ thing per se. Most NF artists and writers I think of, outside acting, are Fi types. SFP's also come to mind.


----------



## Epicyclic (Aug 7, 2014)

From what I understand, most artists tend to be NF or SFP types. SJs as artists are relatively rare, unless the art can be used for some concrete purpose. 

Or maybe NFs enjoy it more than SFs? 

Maybe I should duplicate this thread over at the SFP section.


----------



## Van Meter (Sep 28, 2012)

Maybe because its a means of expressing the inner workings of the soul/mind/spirit/psyche/brain/heart or whatever you want to call it. Its not concrete and is more spiritual.

The only thing I'm remotely interested in would be writing. I hardly listen to music and I could care less about most art, movies suck now, and I can't stand fiction. I guess that makes me kinda lame, but I like writing because I think it gives me more room to get a point across.


----------



## Aurorum (Nov 8, 2014)

what amazes me about arts mostly paintings, is how how outstanding they are, there ability to defy time, hold resemblance of each and every passing soul.. you cant but stand astonished by there power that touches you in the most diligent way!!


----------



## Ti4558 (Oct 17, 2014)

Maybe the love for music and art is a F attribute since it might be used to show someone's passions, motivations, and desires. The F function might use that to communicate that to others or to get there feelings out into the physical world.


----------



## The_Wanderer (Jun 13, 2013)

Epicyclic said:


> From what I understand, most artists tend to be NF or SFP types. SJs as artists are relatively rare, unless the art can be used for some concrete purpose.


One ISFJ I know is a professional graphic designer and art is something she thoroughly enjoys; not only in her professional life but also personal, where she draws for fun and also spends a lot of time cooking, placing emphasis on taste, smell and appearance - essentially making cooking an art form itself. 

I also know another ISFJ who has a fine arts degree. 

Point is, the so-called "SJ" temperament can have artists, "concrete purpose" is a utilitarian mindset characterized by strong Te-types, moreso than all extraverted judgers. You're right about ISTJs though, my girlfriend is one and so is one of my best friends; but you guys are as creative as a photocopier.




Ti4558 said:


> Maybe the love for music and art is a F attribute since it might be used to show someone's passions, motivations, and desires. The F function might use that to communicate that to others or to get there feelings out into the physical world.


It could just as much be related to sensation. Especially Si, which has some emphasis on subjective aesthetic appeals. Not to mention that it could also be about intuition; as an expression of creative and new ideas, for example.


----------



## The Nameless Composer (Sep 20, 2014)

Well they say music transport one to a higher, purer realm of experience and meaning...that music is a short-cut to the soul, expressing things words could never do...although the combination of lyrics with music can be alchemic. I find instrumentals or 'pure music' sometimes more effective in creating these complex feelings and transporting me to universes of possibility. I love music that moves my soul over my body, that's why I favour melody.


----------



## Eudaimonia (Sep 24, 2013)

It is all to do with the Feelz, man.


----------



## Epicyclic (Aug 7, 2014)

The_Wanderer said:


> One ISFJ I know is a professional graphic designer and art is something she thoroughly enjoys; not only in her professional life but also personal, where she draws for fun and also spends a lot of time cooking, placing emphasis on taste, smell and appearance - essentially making cooking an art form itself.
> 
> I also know another ISFJ who has a fine arts degree.
> 
> ...


I think SJs tend to view art / music as a means to an end - as something contributing to a "higher" purpose - rather than an end in itself. This is definitely the case for myself. 

Can't comment for SFJs, but STJs like myself tend to focus on what works - rather than change just for the novelty. So we tend to gradually tweak things in the direction we want. This is completely different from N-types - sometimes I can't connect the dots how they get from one place to another. 

But then and again, I just see music and art as pretty damn good feeling manipulators.....at least for feeling types. Thinking types too, but not to the same kind of extent as F types.


----------



## Epicyclic (Aug 7, 2014)

Itsgoodtodream said:


> Now I'm talking about my own INFP perspective, but might true for other NFs as well. When I face a problem I first think multiple solutions for it and also try find out what caused the problem. I don't want to just go forward and solve it quickly and go on. No fun in that. That same thing applies for decisions also, when I might ponder like five or ten minutes which cup I should use for drinking tea. Not necessarily that important, but somehow I just can't take the one first coming to my hand. I need to think it for a while. And also there's the aspect of "I used that yesterday, but I haven't used this in a couple of weeks." But world needs both action takers and those who think it through million times before even thinking about taking action.


Seems like you guys like to explore what are the options available, perhaps even at the expense of finding a solution. We explore the options available with the chief aim of finding the best solution that fits our requirement - and often our problem is we don't explore options enough. 

Same goes for music - unless I consciously want to explore, I usually just go straight to solution mode. 



Itsgoodtodream said:


> For me, it's a way to escape from the stress of reality





Itsgoodtodream said:


> But to answer the topic of this thread, for me music is the way I express myself. And at the same time it is a way to hide myself if things aren't going all that well. It just gives endless amount of options what to listen. I also have very wide musical tastes (rock, pop, punk, blues, jazz, classical, hiphop, country etc.). Basically, I go with my feelings, because if the song is good and it touches me, I like it no matter the genre. Music can also sometimes be the thing slowing me from taking action. For example, when I'm doing mathematics homework, which I like by the way, and listening to one of my favourite bands I can easily be carried away by the lyrics and after a moment notice I haven't made that much progress. But it doesn't really matter, because I can still do the homework after I've listened.


It seems that escape from reality is a common and recurring theme here. It seems very NF to want to dream of something better, and art and music are triggers to unlocking this pathway. 

Of course, you guys probably know all too well that this is often frowned upon in SJ land. Yes, I am an SJ, but the fact that I'm here means I'm trying to understand the other side rather than dismiss it like what many of you know all too well. 



Itsgoodtodream said:


> When it comes to art, I like art that makes me think. Often modern and contemporary art is often like that. For example, the famous Black Square really makes you think what it means or what the artist has tried to say. Personally I don't draw or paint, because I'm not good at it whereas one of my friends is. I play and write music, sometimes to express myself and sometimes to hide myself. Sometimes both. But I think that we simply enjoy to get carried away by music or art, because our NF combination.


I find it very true. While personally I'd prefer to read or talk about something directly, I recognise that art and music is a very good way of making people sit up and notice an issue, especially for the xxFx types. Of course, provided they can connect with the art and it doesn't get interpreted another way. 

The NFs I know seem to get carried away by art or music quite easily. The SFs probably not so much. Not sure why.

To me, in SJ land, provided the lyrics aren't objectionable to my beliefs, a song is a song is a song - and that's just it. I'm amazed that many of these NFs can end up singing songs with lyrics that they would not agree with if someone spoke the words directly to them. I don't understand how the addition of some music can cause such a drastic change, really.


----------



## Itsgoodtodream (Dec 21, 2014)

Epicyclic said:


> Of course, you guys probably know all too well that this is often frowned upon in SJ land. Yes, I am an SJ, but the fact that I'm here means I'm trying to understand the other side rather than dismiss it like what many of you know all too well.
> 
> To me, in SJ land, provided the lyrics aren't objectionable to my beliefs, a song is a song is a song - and that's just it. I'm amazed that many of these NFs can end up singing songs with lyrics that they would not agree with if someone spoke the words directly to them. I don't understand how the addition of some music can cause such a drastic change, really.


I think is great that you try to understand the NF side of things as well. Personally, I also tend to sometimes think how absurd my actions might seem from SJ perspective, but it doesn't really bother me. In situations where decisions have to be made quick SJs might be better, because they can make the decision without first thinking every option true for a long time. In groups the combination of both might be the best option, because then there would be people who can make the decision when needed, but also people who can think things more when needed.

Your writing about song lyrics was also interesting. It really is a bit weird that we can end up singing lyrics we don't actually agree. Some of it might be because lyrics can be interpreted different ways. But personally if song is a pretty straight forward in its message and I disagree with it, I don't want to sing it or sometimes don't even like listening to it. Some songs can be interpreted in many different ways and the writer might not even have disclosed what he/she originally meant with it. So basically, in those situations you can't really tell what the lyrics actually mean.


----------



## Epicyclic (Aug 7, 2014)

Itsgoodtodream said:


> I think is great that you try to understand the NF side of things as well.


AFAIK most, if not all of the STJs that I see on PerC come for the chief purpose of learning about other personality types. Many because they have a relationship or marriage in trouble, and others for other reasons. 

For us STJ folk, it is sometimes a bit harder to learn about these types in the real world because we tend to: 

- prioritise roles and responsibilities over other things. These roles and responsibilities often limit the amount and degree of interaction that we have with others, and thus the learning. 
- we tend to not like people who do not fulfill their responsibilities. 
- we tend to not trust people who are very emotional, partially because we aren't good at handling emotions and partially because their emotions hinder us from achieving our objectives a lot. 

Therefore, this site serves as a good place to learn about other personality types without being caught up by responsibilities, since it's almost impossible to have any responsibilities on the site. 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the impression that we SJs get is that the NF and NT threads have so much more people and activity is that many of the NFs and NTs want somewhere where they can congregate and indulge in their kind of stuff without reality breathing down their necks. For SPs I'm not sure why, I don't go there that often. 



Itsgoodtodream said:


> Personally, I also tend to sometimes think how absurd my actions might seem from SJ perspective, but it doesn't really bother me. In situations where decisions have to be made quick SJs might be better, because they can make the decision without first thinking every option true for a long time. In groups the combination of both might be the best option, because then there would be people who can make the decision when needed, but also people who can think things more when needed.


Same here. This is why society needs people of all types around, contrary to what some (of different types) might fantasise about. 

Considering the NF perspective, I've learned over the years that sometimes I can appear very scary to them, especially when I have a task that I need to "make it happen". Now, riding roughshod over feelings might be good in the short term, but pissing off people usually creates problems in the long term. 



Itsgoodtodream said:


> Your writing about song lyrics was also interesting. It really is a bit weird that we can end up singing lyrics we don't actually agree. Some of it might be because lyrics can be interpreted different ways. But personally if song is a pretty straight forward in its message and I disagree with it, I don't want to sing it or sometimes don't even like listening to it.


Hey - it's not like SJs aren't vulnerable to it. They too also are, just much less in proportion and degree. 

Only after looking at the NF mindset then I realise why songs are so effective at convincing people. Now, not being an NF, I will never fully understand, but threads like this offer a much better picture why. 



Itsgoodtodream said:


> Some songs can be interpreted in many different ways and the writer might not even have disclosed what he/she originally meant with it. So basically, in those situations you can't really tell what the lyrics actually mean.


Which is true. There are some SJs that like music, and will probably go into detail about the music, writers, possible interpretations and so on, but to those of us who don't, then we usually don't bother to and so we consider it at face value. 

You guys would probably think what a waste........


----------



## AliceKettle (Feb 2, 2014)

For me, singing music and writing for fun (yes, it is an art form), help me to escape reality and forget all my troubles. I get to portray the emotions and feelings of someone else when I'm singing, and I get to vent when I write for fun.


----------

