# Idealism And Disappointment



## sallyJones (Mar 6, 2014)

Hello all,

Since the NFs are technically the idealists, how often are you disappointed in either yourself or other people for not meeting your expectations?

I'm just curious to see if this is an issue with many NFs.

-SJ


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## Belzy (Aug 12, 2013)

All the time.


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## Khendjer (Oct 31, 2013)

sallyJones said:


> Since the NFs are technically the idealists, how often are you disappointed in either yourself or other people for not meeting your expectations?


Surprisingly little. I used to get let down by people all the time, but now my expectations are so ridiculously low that it takes a sheer act of will to be terrible enough to literally disappoint me. Now it's just, "Oh that person sucks? Par for the course." 

It sounds a little depressing and defeatist, but it actually saves me tons of energy and frustration. No reason to stress out over someone who's not going to change, after all. When someone stands out by being a decent human being it's a pleasant surprise.


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## Ella Mae (Feb 28, 2014)

I try really hard not to be too idealistic. It doesn't help when you hear a successful person tell you that they were raised in poverty or particularly had a hard life. It's times like that my brain goes, Well I've had a good life so it can't be that hard to achieve what I want. With other people, I'm OK. I'm rarely disappointed or set high standards for them. It's me that I have to learn not to expect too much from cause it gets stressful after a while.


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## cindennrella (Jun 10, 2012)

I justify people's actions all the time, so I'm not usually disappointed, but when I finally am it's heartbreaking.
I've always expected people to do what they think is the right thing to do. I want them to care about others and themselves. It's hard for me to accept that I'm asking too much of them.
Lately I've been feeling pretty cynical, and that's the opposite of who I really am, so a simple selfless act can make me cry. I can even feel like I love a stranger when I witness something like that. I'm trying to find that middle place where I can believe in people but not be too naive.


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## monemi (Jun 24, 2013)

Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist.
George Carlin


I've never been an idealist, but I could never be described as a cynic. I think George Carlin was onto something.


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## Wellsy (Oct 24, 2011)

Hmmm I don't think ideals in themselves are disappointing, I view them more as goals reality should strive for. The kind of thinking that says this isn't good enough we need to do better rather than bitch and whinge that we can't change things for the better. Even though I myself believe that it is pretty much impossible to achieve the ideal completely. 
People who say that's just how things are do tend to frustrate me.

So how often am I disappointed? hhhmm Not sure, I try to balance myself with some skepticism.
I suppose I think I have a greater perspective in tune with reality than previous years, this is me maturing. I think real disappointment offers painful introspection and a realignment of concepts and values, which can be a good thing assuming those adjustments work for the better and not just turn you bitter.
I'm not sure exactly what I expect though, I just kind of come in being naive and try and learn.
If there is any disappointment it would be in myself in adjusting to the new perspectives with behavior.


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## Winquman (Jan 11, 2014)

In myself? Any time something I do isn't perfect.
In others? Very rarely. I don't put high expectations on others unless I'm confident they will live up to them.


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## Credible Cat (Feb 21, 2014)

I wouldn't say I'm disappointed often. But I'm definitely more likely to be disappointed in myself than another person. For myself, I'm often disappointed in my laziness, kicking myself for the things I don't do. It's funny, but so long as I make a decision or do something, it's very easy for me to come to terms with the outcome. Often I'm satisfied, or if not, there's brief disappointment, reflection, and I move on with the newly acquired knowledge/experience. Hopefully I can avoid whatever mistake I made again.

That's for my actions, but for my thoughts... I find that I have to forcibly subdue my stereotypes of people before giving them the benefit of the doubt. If I allow those sort of preconceived notions to affect my judgement when dealing with people, I usually find myself disappointed in how I was thinking when I reflect back at a later time.

In other people, I'm extremely trusting. (I like to pick up hitchhikers and hobos despite my family's concern - but I'm still alive.) I allow people the first move in a lot of cases - to either help me or burn me. More often than not, people reciprocate kindness and understanding in like. When they don't, I understand that not everyone in the world will live up to your expectations. So I suppose that's how I avoid disappointment; with a dose of practicality.

But everything comes back to my core belief that I have to live my ideals. Kinda silly and unreasonable though, when you're in the military.


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## Dosto Yevsky (Feb 9, 2014)




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## sarek (May 20, 2010)

Upon reflection I find that I can not remember that day when I woke up and was no longer an idealist. Yet is must have happened for once I was one, and now I am not.

For decades I tried to find ways to change the world, people, everything. But the obvious truth which stared me in the face without me seeing it, was that it is myself whom I need to change. 
If there is little love in the world, it is because I do not love enough. If there is poverty in the world, it is because I do not share. If there is hunger in the world, it is because I do not help out. If there is war in the world, it starts and is perpetuated with my first angry outburst. So, as long as there is no perfection within myself, why do I expect it elsewhere?


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## Aya the Abysswalker (Mar 23, 2012)

I stopped idealizing, I accept things as they are.


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## monemi (Jun 24, 2013)

I don't think realism means you just have to accept things as they are. I expect reality. When I see opportunities to make real change in our world that will improve things, I embrace them and jump in with both feet. I don't like to talk about idealism unless it comes with a way to make things better. Because what's the point of talking about problems that we can't do anything about?


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## Dosto Yevsky (Feb 9, 2014)

monemi said:


> Because what's the point of talking about problems that we can't do anything about?


Wallowing in self-pity and existential misery is just so _delicious_, it's irresistible for us wimpy lil' INFPs. You big, mean EXTPs would never understand.


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## TuesdaysChild (Jan 11, 2014)

monemi said:


> Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist.
> George Carlin
> 
> 
> I've never been an idealist, but I could never be described as a cynic. I think George Carlin was onto something.


Oh, God. That quote truly punched me in the gut. I've turned myself into a cynic to hide the disappointed idealist and even forgot it was there. Ugh. I was quite content with my cynicism until just now lol! I probably needed to be reminded of this, though. A bandaid and selective memory loss couldn't have lasted forever...


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## Dosto Yevsky (Feb 9, 2014)

AlliG said:


> Oh, God. That quote truly punched me in the gut. I've turned myself into a cynic to hide the disappointed idealist and even forgot it was there. Ugh. I was quite content with my cynicism until just now lol! I probably needed to be reminded of this, though. A bandaid and selective memory loss couldn't have lasted forever...


If Carlin ever was an idealist though, it must have been a LONG time ago; he became a cynic very early, though his cynism increased in darkness with the years.

I think it's worth the trouble to remain an idealist, I wouldn't swap fates with Carlin. Just adjust your idealism so it's realistic, don't let it bring you down. That old prayer thing about changing what you can, leaving the rest alone and knowing the difference.


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## TuesdaysChild (Jan 11, 2014)

OrchestraInside said:


> If Carlin ever was an idealist though, it must have been a LONG time ago; he became a cynic very early, though his cynism increased in darkness with the years.
> 
> I think it's worth the trouble to remain an idealist, I wouldn't swap fates with Carlin. Just adjust your idealism so it's realistic, don't let it bring you down. That old prayer thing about changing what you can, leaving the rest alone and knowing the difference.


I would say I remain pretty idealistic about the world (mostly). It's only the vulnerable girl inside that's been hijacked by the snarky cynic who doesn't need anyone.


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## IncoherentBabbler (Oct 21, 2013)

I'm a cynical idealist. I've learned to expect both the good and bad possabilities in any situation. In any given situation, things could always be better, and things could always have gone worse. Realistic expectations are not my forte, however.


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## Tridentus (Dec 14, 2009)

I think idealism is a positive and necessary force for NFs..

For me personally, every big motivating driver to do/achieve something good in my life has come from idealistic energy.. A lot of the things that have demotivated me and have restricted/made my life worse has been from when I've tried to use practical energy.

It's about your beliefs- and idealistic energy can infuse you with a tremendous amount of belief which can then becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, as long as you use the idealism to motivate yourself rather than to carry you.


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## poetspoony (Mar 5, 2014)

Most times I try to write something and can't get the words to match the pictures in my head. When I've written it and read it back to myself and when I try to finish off absolutely anything I start. :frustrating:


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