# An Argumentl for Additional Cusp Forums



## zobot (Feb 28, 2011)

There is plenty of exhaustive, ongoing research which differentiates unique generations from one another. The foremost authorities on generational theory (Neil Howe and William Strauss), ascribe each generation, to the following birth years:

G.I. --------> 1901-1924 

Silent ------> 1925-1942 

Boom ------> 1943-1960 

Gen. X -----> 1961-1981	

Millennial ---> 1982-200?

Now, as you might have noticed, there is not yet any formal generation for the most recent group (babies born after the turn of century). Also, active debate continues over so-called "cusp generations," most notably, "Generation Jones" (1954-1967), and "MTV Generation" (1978-1990). 

Gen. Jones gets its label from several features associated with the time in which they grew up and lived. According to Wikipedia, 



> The name has several connotations, including a large anonymous generation, keeping up with the Joneses competitiveness and the slang word "jones" or jonesing, meaning a yearning or craving. It is said that Jonesers were given huge expectations as children in the 1960s, and then confronted with a different reality as they came of age in the 1970s and 1980s, leaving them with a certain unrequited, jonesing quality...Key characteristics: less optimistic, distrust of government, general cynicism.


Lingering speculation over the term "MTV Generation" (or "Peter Pan Generation"), pits those who believe in its validity---as separate and apart from Xers and Millennials---against those who do not warrant any distinction. Wikipedia describes the potential cusp in the following ways:



> The MTV Generation is a term sometimes used to refer to youth of the late 20th century...
> 
> The phrase came into general use more than two years after the cable network's 1981 debut. One observer notes that "By 1984, MTV was reaching 1.2 percent of the daily television audience, and more than a quarter of daily teen viewers. Children of the eighties would henceforth be known as 'the MTV Generation.'". As early its October 13, 1984 issue, Billboard Magazine was using the term in reference to musical preferences. The phrase was later expanded to include the purchasing choices of a generation of consumers, with the J. Walter Thompson advertising agency describing the demographic in a 1985 presentation entitled "The New American Consumers"..."
> 
> MTV broadcast a documentary titled MTV Generation in 1991. Reviewing it, the New York Times described the group as "young adults struggling to establish a cultural niche for themselves, something that will distinguish them from the hippies and baby boomers and yuppies of times past." The documentary depicts the MTV Generation as characterised by cynicism, uncertainty, and an ability to process information quickly, and focussing on diversions and retro interests.


Personally, as someone who has spent a good deal of time on the official Howe and Strauss forums (called The Fourth Turning Forums), I am strongly in favor of both cusps. 

But where does the concept of generational cusps even come from? Well, without a clear or official definition to refer to, I will offer a simple explanation: sometimes enough people, who were born within the same, general time-period, do not feel they adequately fit inside their established generation, disembarking from existing labels, to form their own group. This is not a coordinated divergence, on the part of either group, however---both Generation Jones and MTV Generation stubbornly persist, of their own volition, by sheer coincidence (or relevance), in spite of any disavowal/ neglect they share from the experts.

I may only speak on behalf of my allegiance to the MTV Generation (sometimes called "Generation Y" elsewhere, but overlapping terminology can create ineffective, and unnecessary confusion). I was born August 13, 1981, exactly twelve days after the birth of MTV. But the significance of MTV does not end symbolically. Throughout the rest of the 80's, into the height of is pop culture power in the mid-90's, then up to its metaphoric "death" in the early 2000's (when the network drastically reduced its music-related programming), MTV was a powerful, external influence on the lives of people my age. Of course, I am speaking in broad terms---but MTV's influence and reach was frankly unprecedented, particularly for the global youth population, who were coming of age at that time.

Here are some of my excerpted quotes on the matter (from the 4T forums), to expound upon the meaning of MTV Generation, and the reasons why we are different from Xers and Millennials:



> The theory is that [MTV Generation] includes youth who were essentially shaped by MTV---and music, in general. We were approaching high school graduation, while the internet and cell phones were not yet _fully_ integrated into our daily lives (I survived my entire high school experience without so much as a text message). We were in college during 9/11; smoking was perfectly acceptable, accessible, and affordable for the first 20-odd years of our lives; we grew up during the height of the AIDS pandemic; and we are _barely_ (but still are) technology natives.





> Departing from MTV, and hearkening back to the events of 9/11, my generation was instantly and abruptly forced to abandon an idealized childhood, for a more horrific, uncertain, and mistrustful reality. As we were naturally making the vulnerable transition into adulthood, terrorism changed all the rules, and left us fearful of the future.


A Brief, "I Am Not a Millennial" Checklist:


I have listened to a cassette tape more than once in my life


I owned a walkman


I still have some movies on VHS 


I have extensive experience pressing a REWIND button


I once owned a Boom Box 


I can name most of the members of NKOTB (no, I will not break down the accronym for you)


I went (or desperately wished to go) to Woodstock '99


I was not only old enough to remember the deaths of Kurt Kobane, Notorious BIG, Tupac, and Chris Farley, but I also genuinely mourned them (probably between first and second period)


I often obsess about being cool


I had a snap bracelet, which was most likely taken away by a teacher (I might have also unwittingly killed my friend with one)


These kids could have easily sat behind me in social studies---I wondered whether or not they would have spared me---if I went to school at Colombine:









I vaguely remember Tienanmen Square, and when they tore down the Berlin Wall (I might even have a piece of that thing lying around my room somewhere)


I definitely remember the first Iraq War...it was boring


I learned to drive at about the same time I learned to use the Internet


Terrifying PDAs conditioned me to never talk to strangers, to carry a condom with me *AT ALL TIMES*, and to be fearful of boiling pots and electrical cords.


A Brief "I Am Not an Xer" Checklist



I do not remember people smoking on airplanes, inside of offices, or on school property


I never seriously wore bell-bottoms


I did not discuss Reaganomics with my peers


I do not carry a chip on my shoulder, which is visible from space


I am not the very definition cool


I never necessarily used an eight track machine


Sarcasm is not my native language


I do not harbor a deep and passionate hatred for Baby Boomers


I did not follow the Brat Pack in popular media


I do not remember when Molly Ringwald was America's sweetheart


I do not remember the premier of "Rio" on MTV


I did not see Star Wars in a movie theater


I did not want to kill disco


I do not know all of the lyrics to "Free Bird"


I did not write most of my school papers by hand

If you checked off the bulk of these two lists, you are most likely part of the MTV Generation---born between 1976(7)-1986(7). 

And you are a bad-ass.

CONGRATULATIONS!!


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## lib (Sep 18, 2010)

Having Generation X start in 1961 makes perfect sense to me as the writer of the novel "Generation X", Douglas Coupland, was born in 1961 and he was writing about his own generation.
What also makes sense is naming the two generations after Generation X - Generation Y and Z.


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## StandingTiger (Dec 25, 2010)

I was born in 1987, and I definitely fall into the MTV Generation / Generation Y. This was my life.


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## SyndiCat (Oct 2, 2010)

_# I have listened to a cassette tape more than once in my life
# I owned a walkman
# I still have some movies on VHS
# I have extensive experience pressing a REWIND button
# I once owned a Boom Box
# I was not only old enough to remember the deaths of Kurt Kobane, Notorious BIG, Tupac
# I learned to drive at about the same time I learned to use the Internet
# Terrifying PDAs conditioned me to never talk to strangers, to carry a condom with me AT ALL TIMES, and to be fearful of boiling pots and electrical cords._

So I am *not* a Millennial even though I am a Millennial? What am I a Generation XY crossbreed?


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## zobot (Feb 28, 2011)

SyndiCat said:


> _# I have listened to a cassette tape more than once in my life
> # I owned a walkman
> # I still have some movies on VHS
> # I have extensive experience pressing a REWIND button
> ...


Maybe? That's essentially what MTV gens are. 

What year were you born?


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## sparkles (Mar 2, 2011)

Never really felt right with the Gen Y stuff or the Gen X stuff but as my friends were usually older I felt more like an Xer.

Great checklist for the cusp! I would say you nailed it for me, though it's also U.S.-centric I'm American so that works for me.


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## NekoNinja (Apr 18, 2010)

Just saying, I could check off half of the first list, and I was born in 91...

I just thought I would let you know....


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## zobot (Feb 28, 2011)

NekoNinja said:


> Just saying, I could check off half of the first list, and I was born in 91...
> 
> I just thought I would let you know....


Okay, what about the other half?


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## mushr00m (May 23, 2011)

'I did not write most of my school papers by hand'

I did write most of my school papers by hand.


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## The Exception (Oct 26, 2010)

A Brief, "I Am Not a Millennial" Checklist:



*
[*]I have listened to a cassette tape more than once in my life
*

*
[*]I owned a walkman


[*]I still have some movies on VHS 

*
*
[*]I have extensive experience pressing a REWIND button
*

*
[*]I once owned a Boom Box 
*

I can name most of the members of NKOTB (no, I will not break down the accronym for you)


I went (or desperately wished to go) to Woodstock '99


*
[*]I was not only old enough to remember the deaths of Kurt Kobane, Notorious BIG, Tupac, and Chris Farley, but I also genuinely mourned them (probably between first and second period)
*

I often obsess about being cool


I had a snap bracelet, which was most likely taken away by a teacher (I might have also unwittingly killed my friend with one)


*
[*]These kids could have easily sat behind me in social studies---I wondered whether or not they would have spared me---if I went to school at Colombine:
*










*
[*]I vaguely remember Tienanmen Square, and when they tore down the Berlin Wall (I might even have a piece of that thing lying around my room somewhere)
*

*
[*]I definitely remember the first Iraq War...it was boring
*

*
[*]I learned to drive at about the same time I learned to use the Internet
*

Terrifying PDAs conditioned me to never talk to strangers, to carry a condom with me *AT ALL TIMES*, and to be fearful of boiling pots and electrical cords.


A Brief "I Am Not an Xer" Checklist



I do not remember people smoking on airplanes, inside of offices, or on school property


*
[*]I never seriously wore bell-bottoms
*

*
[*]I did not discuss Reaganomics with my peers
*

*
[*]I do not carry a chip on my shoulder, which is visible from space

*
*
[*]I am not the very definition cool
*

*
[*]I never necessarily used an eight track machine
*

*
[*]Sarcasm is not my native language
*

*
[*]I do not harbor a deep and passionate hatred for Baby Boomers
*

*
[*]I did not follow the Brat Pack in popular media
*

*
[*]I do not remember when Molly Ringwald was America's sweetheart

*
*
[*]I do not remember the premier of "Rio" on MTV
*

I did not see Star Wars in a movie theater


*
[*]I did not want to kill disco

*
I do not know all of the lyrics to "Free Bird"


*
[*]I did not write most of my school papers by hand
*

If you checked off the bulk of these two lists, you are most likely part of the MTV Generation---born between 1976(7)-1986(7). 

And you are a bad-ass.

CONGRATULATIONS!!


Yep, I'm a cusp-er


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

I relate to this, but I'm creeped out by being referred to as the MTV Generation. I do not approve. Can I belong to the Owns-Pink-Floyd-The-Wall-Live-in-Berlin-On-VHS generation instead? Kthnx.

I do know all of the lyrics to "Free Bird," but that's because I'm from the South.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Rachael Trilby said:


> 'I did not write most of my school papers by hand'
> 
> I did write most of my school papers by hand.


Yeah, me too. 

I also think that Baby Boomers are the root of all that is evil.

I guess I am Gen X. Except it says I'm Gen Y.

Dammit, I really don't want to belong to a peer group named specifically after a corporate conglomerate.

That's what sickens me about it.


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## 481450 (Aug 13, 2017)

Additional cusp forums are a bad idea, BB/X, X/Y, Y/Z forums aren't needed, it'll cause more confusion.

Am I the only one who actually agrees with the generation ranges PerC uses?


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## California Kid (Dec 5, 2013)

TwilightPrince16 said:


> Additional cusp forums are a terrible idea, BB/X, X/Y, Y/Z forums aren't needed, it'll cause more confusion.
> 
> Am I the only one who agrees with the generation ranges PerC uses?


I agree, and that people will be arguing over which cusp they are apart of in a small cohort. I think in the next few years, the Xennial group will no longer be a thing since most Millennials will be in their 30s and the older ones will finally realize they were a Millennial all along. The only reason why there's an X/Y cusp in the first place is that the current 30-somethings don't know which generation they are in right now.


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## Glenda Gnome Starr (May 12, 2011)

Thalassa said:


> Yeah, me too.
> 
> I also think that Baby Boomers are the root of all that is evil.
> 
> ...


I deny being the root of all evil. I don't have that much power. The one percent is the root of all evil. 
ISFPs are incapable of that much wickedness.
I dislike being part of a generation that's called "baby."


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## Agent Washintub (Oct 6, 2012)

SuperYoshi said:


> I agree, and that people will be arguing over which cusp they are apart of in a small cohort. I think in the next few years, the Xennial group will no longer be a thing since most Millennials will be in their 30s and the older ones will finally realize they were a Millennial all along. The only reason why there's an X/Y cusp in the first place is that the current 30-somethings don't know which generation they are in right now.


It's a little more complicated than that.

The biggest issue to that is that we aren't nearly as homogenized as the other generations. Millennial from Texas is drastically different than an Millennial from New York, different from one in Nebraska. We kind of got fucked over by the slow progression of technology. At the tail end of Millennials, I don't relate to the older Mills, and I have nothing in common with Y. Y has the benefit of already having technology that we have in already in place.

Case in point, I didn't have a cell phone until I was 17 years old. I didn't have a high speed internet connection in my house until I was 22, and married. But I know older Millennials that had high speed and shit at a far younger age than me, because of where they lived. I mean, the only REAL thing we attached to as a generation was the boy bands of the 90s and the Britney vs Christina shit at the same time.

We remember 9/11 and were the ones that mostly suffered the military service of it. A sizeable chunk of our generation is almost completely unrelatable to the rest because of that.

The younger half of the generation is barely scraping by, highly affected by the Great Recession. The old half made it through in time to already have had a decent job.

The Millennials are split in ways that we'll never be truly cohesive.


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## LindsyClarke80s (Mar 30, 2018)

I prefer and relate more to MTV Generation cohort than Generation Y and Xennials.


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## keepthefaith.faith (Mar 26, 2018)

I identify as MTV Generation.


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## Preciselyd (Mar 18, 2018)

I agree with Personality Cafe's Generation span. 

If anything they could add Generation Jones, Xennials and Zennials.


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## 408610 (Oct 3, 2016)

Thalassa said:


> Yeah, me too.
> 
> I also think that Baby Boomers are the root of all that is evil.
> 
> ...


Actually You are last to be Core Gen X or on the cusp of Gen X and Y with 1977-1981 leaning towards X and 1982-1983 leaning towards Y or Early Millennials.You are not even Generation Y/Millennials because you watched Star Wars Return of the Jedi or empire strike back when you were a kids while Millennials are people who were born from 1982-2000 according to(Goldman Sachs, Resolution Foundation, Time, US Census Bureau, US Pirg and MTV) .It is seriously ridiculous or silly or crazy to call or sorted you in Early Millennials when you are clearly not.Apparently,Gen Y should not commence in 1977 as it does not make sense.Of course,you dont want to be called specifically after a corporate or group that are conglomerate.That is why i do not agree with Per-C.And most importantly,Your experience are immensely or vastly different from 1982s born babies.1982s born babies would have heard of Backstreet Boys ,Britney Spears and etcs when they were in the peak or mid age of teen or Generation culture which is 16 years old while you would have heard of Nirvana,Mariah Carey,Witney Houston,Michael Jackson during your mid age or peak age of teen culture which is 16 years old and even experience life as a teen(13 years old) or pre-teen or adolescent or tween(Age 10-12) which is a year or 11 months plus before the fall of USSR and Cold War ended.So i think Per-c has to rethink about the definition and span of Generations especially Gen X and Millennials as i have stated Gen X's span is way too short.They should extended it to 1981.And there is no way Millennials started in 1977 where they are only 2 sources that started from 1977 and ended in 1994.And as for Millennials,They should have started in 1982 instead of 1977.Liv Tyler(born 1977) and Bruneian actor Wu Chun(Goh Kiat Chun) (born 1979)are sorted in the same generation as you by me and the other 6 sources such as Goldman Sachs, Resolution Foundation, Time, US Census Bureau, US Pirg and MTV.Per-C got it all wrong about the span of Gen X.

1994 cutoff - 2 sources (MetLife, McCrindle)
1995 cutoff - 2 sources (PricewaterhouseCoopers, Nielson Media Research)
1996 cutoff - 5 sources (Gallup Inc, MSW Research, Ernst & Young, Pew Research, Nielson Media Research)
1998 cutoff - 1 source (SYZYGY)
2000 cutoff - 6 sources (Goldman Sachs, Resolution Foundation, Time, US Census Bureau, US Pirg and MTV)
2001 cutoff - 1 source (Elwood Carlson)
2004 cutoff - 1 source (Strauss & Howe)


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