# love hate with the tertiary?



## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

I feel like tertiary Ni makes me smarter and more reasonable or cautious so I love it. But but honestly I other times hate intellectually fighting "what I really feel." I feel like the nineteen year old girl who followed her feelings and her senses, and yet that Ni saved me from terrible fates...

I mean sometimes I wish I were an ESFP 7w6 instead of an ISFP 6w7...I honestly love myself when I leave my panties in the garden shed. I just hate the consequences.

I think an ESFP I have been involved with is also a 6w7...he is anxious, conscious of the group and charming while alternately paranoid, but is less conscious not only of future outcomes but other people's motives, and suffers mostly from not learning from mistakes and impulsive behavior less than what my ESFJ ex used to call "dwelling."

I wish I could come back as a Selena Gomez video, yet know with tert Ni that only money saves her from the same fate as any impulse driven person.

I think being an ISFP may be MOAR cursed than being an iNtuitive. I want to live my impulsive feelings (Se) but am tortured by the ethical and future oriented voices of Fi and Ni. 

I want to just keep walking. I love you like a love song baby, and I keep hitting repeat (peat peat).


----------



## Snow (Oct 19, 2010)

Leaving your panties in a shed?

I really should learn more about my Si and how it works for me. I think I'll look into this more, tomorrow.


----------



## Frenetic Tranquility (Aug 5, 2011)

The teriary often does often take a negative tone for all of us, despite how often we can reasonably comfortably engage in it.

The danger of the tertiary is how we often perceive we are much better with it than we are. In your case, you might perceive grand schemes of malevolence, guided by the "facts". Of course, a grain of truth may be there, but often quite extrapolated out of proportion.

So there may be alot of credibility to wanting to kick into that Se mode....since it's really "you".

Of course this can be tricky, if the grand schemes of malevolence you perceive prompt you to believe you have a moral imperative to fight the good fight against them. Do you feel this is what happens to you?


----------



## LadyO.W.BernieBro (Sep 4, 2010)

^Basically what he said.


With my tertiary Fe, to the point that it's matured which has been relatively stable since l was about 17, people don't believe that l'm just withdrawn or sincerely not interested in entertaining them sometimes because l'm ''such a people person'' according to an ENFP 

l've wanted to be an INTP.


----------



## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

For most of the part, I love tertiary Fi. I like how it provides me a sense of stability that I otherwise kind of strangely lack, in that without Fi there to ground me, I think I would float around even more in Ni space than I already do and not even experience myself as an individual necessarily, in a visceral way that Se adds to it. It just helps to keep me aware of myself and what I feel. What I don't like about it though, is its childish nature. When I have my outbursts I feel a lot of shame because they were so childish, simply.


----------



## Word Dispenser (May 18, 2012)

I love how the ENTPs jump on their tertiary right away. 

I think I may be on and off a dom-tertiary loop. The elusive Ti. I think I might be returning to a 'stable cognitive state' of mind (But what is stable to an ENTP? How boring would that be?)


----------



## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

From an ISFP frame I must just affirm @fourtines perspective.
My Ni keeps me back from acting the complete fool and reveling in my Se totally.
It is a tense dynamic. On the other hand it allows me to understand and revel in things like this.
So from a pragmatic sense I can find patterns and tools that allows me to


> leave my panties in the garden shed


more. LOL XD
I felt inferior a lot of my life since I compared myself to the Se-dom/terts running around "living the good life".
I tried to do the same and immediately hit a wall of knowing what the consequenses would be.
Hence I couldn't really let my self go completely often times.
For me the solution has become to construct opportunities for immersion in sensory pleasure with as little consequence as possible. And to learn to accept the consequences more. Lots of chocolate = dentist = little money.


----------



## Ballast (Jun 17, 2013)

fourtines said:


> I feel like tertiary Ni makes me smarter and more reasonable or cautious so I love it. But but honestly I other times hate intellectually fighting "what I really feel." I feel like the nineteen year old girl who followed her feelings and her senses, and yet that Ni saved me from terrible fates...
> 
> I mean sometimes I wish I were an ESFP 7w6 instead of an ISFP 6w7...I honestly love myself when I leave my panties in the garden shed. I just hate the consequences.
> 
> ...


Sounds like that's a part of general introversion, too; we're already somewhat reserved and look-before-you-leap types as it is. We're definitely not going to be bringing to the table what an Se-dom would bring.

But I get what you mean. For me, it's like this but _extreeeeeme_. Se is my inferior so _any_ impulsive move on my part is foreign, awkward, and usually regretted. But Ni, unchecked by Te (and Se, which it also draws from) renders a bunch of nonsense and without them I'd end up turning into a paranoid conspiracy theorist far removed from any facts, lol. And I'd never go outside.


----------



## OrangeAppled (Jun 26, 2009)

I have noticed that IxxPs have more of a distaste for their tertiary, or see its unhealthy effects more. IxxJs seem to be in love with their tertiary and don't see its negative effects as much. They seem to especially be drawn to those who have their tertiary as dominant. 
Extroverts obviously have more visible tertiary functions, but they seem more in love with it in themselves .

I see tertiary Si in me, but in me, it seems childish and without the weight of Je. It's more obviously the impressionistic painting Jung uses as an analogy for Si. I think it makes INFPs extra idealistic, because it compounds the Fi ideals with an injection of Si romanticizing things into something they never actually were. 

Unlike a Si-dom, my grasp of the actual past feels very slippery. Things are so vague to me at times I wonder what actually happened. I've seen INFPs accused of being less than truthful about what has happened, and honestly, I simply think it's because we don't actually know in a strict factual sense, so our mind fills in the blanks with "what likely happened" based on the results. It's a weird play between Ne+Si that leads to the INP wackiness. Si almost makes you MORE detached from reality, not grounded. 

Instead of being motivated to interact with reality and increase a sense of sureness in it, like many ISJ do, I think INPs can create some cocoon of sensory experiences they find meaningful. This makes them very niche-oriented - certain genres of music, film, food, etc, will be focused on too intently, and can create a snobbish exterior. Of course, Ji demands for conceptual perfection plays into this too.

As a very young child, as young as 3, I used to like to draw faces. I fill notebooks with faces, one after the other, each slightly different. And most of these were not anyone I had ever seen, rather just playing with different proportions and colors - sort of theoretical ways faces could vary. And in doing this I got good at drawing faces. When I finally started to do portraits of people at age 7 or so, I could draw their features with relative ease, whereas I noticed many of my peers tended to draw all noses the same, all eyes the same, etc, and just change the coloring or whatever. There is a Si aspect of this to me, to "master" a skill of sorts through a mental exploration of probable/possible details in reality not actually seen or experienced. I would like to revisit this method, but I have an impatience with it now, as I'd rather go out into life and explore potential as it emerges, and it frankly makes me happier to do so. I have such an impatience for repetition, especially in details, that it stresses & depresses me. There's too much inferior Te saying "not good enough" that I can't stay with a task long enough to get good enough.

More than anything though, I experience Si as the siren to stay in and listen to music & indulge in my favorite daydreams & create a reality in my head that is sure & controllable, as I feel helpless to do so outside my head. This is seriously distorted Si, as Si-dom use Je to actually apply their perceptions to navigating reality by making experience somewhat predictable. But without decent Je, it's just an inner landscape awash with colors and shapes more compelling than they ever were in reality.

On a positive note (because I'm trying to detect where I use Si in a good way, even if limited), I think Si does provide me factual markers to reference which support my Ne theories. It's like to see the picture, I only need those few dots to connect, and I don't even have to actually connect them. Those few points are enough for me to guess quickly what it is. But those few points are important or else it may just be entirely made-up.


----------



## Snow (Oct 19, 2010)

OMG WTF BRO said:


> l've wanted to be an INTP.


If you dare drop your coolness level down to us, I will personally hunt you down and begin counter-conditioning immediately. You're definitely top 5 best ENTPs on PerC, after all :tongue:


----------



## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Frenetic Tranquility said:


> The teriary often does often take a negative tone for all of us, despite how often we can reasonably comfortably engage in it.
> 
> The danger of the tertiary is how we often perceive we are much better with it than we are. In your case, you might perceive grand schemes of malevolence, guided by the "facts". Of course, a grain of truth may be there, but often quite extrapolated out of proportion.
> 
> ...


Wow that would be me. In a nutshell lol.

I saw the ESFP today though and we had a serious talk, and I find that he actually does try to guess people's motives and it makes him paranoid. He says he notices everything, notices what other people don't and sometimes it makes him nervous. I realized his Ni is inferior and almost totally negative for him at twenty, but that he's aware of it means he is growing. I typed him as an 8w9 (even today he said if a man ever raped me, he would go rape that man to avenge me )...but his admitted anxiety sounds like 6w7 with 8w9 as a gut fix...like me. I think 8 is second in his triad though and 4 is second in my triad.

I am glad I followed my impulse to see him. It was so great, we just talked, I've never felt so close to him.

You are right that engaging my Se is probably a good idea.

Thank you.


----------



## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

OrangeAppled said:


> I have noticed that IxxPs have more of a distaste for their tertiary, or see its unhealthy effects more. IxxJs seem to be in love with their tertiary and don't see its negative effects as much. They seem to especially be drawn to those who have their tertiary as dominant.
> Extroverts obviously have more visible tertiary functions, but they seem more in love with it in themselves .
> 
> I see tertiary Si in me, but in me, it seems childish and without the weight of Je. It's more obviously the impressionistic painting Jung uses as an analogy for Si. I think it makes INFPs extra idealistic, because it compounds the Fi ideals with an injection of Si romanticizing things into something they never actually were.
> ...


Thank you for this detailed personal account of your tertiary Si, it is helpful.


----------



## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

hornet said:


> From an ISFP frame I must just affirm @fourtines perspective.
> My Ni keeps me back from acting the complete fool and reveling in my Se totally.
> It is a tense dynamic. On the other hand it allows me to understand and revel in things like this.
> So from a pragmatic sense I can find patterns and tools that allows me to
> ...


Yes. I have also noticed as I get older it gets easier for me to take multiple perspective or have a better grasp of why other people would be motivated to behave in this or that way instead of totally taking it personally or automatically assigning "evil" motives.

I think it works to improve Fi empathy in the long run.

But over using it is no bueno.


----------



## d e c a d e n t (Apr 21, 2013)

I like it, but I wish it would come to the surface more.


----------



## Pancreatic Pandora (Aug 16, 2013)

There's nothing I dislike about my tert Ti. It's a great balance to Fe and discerns wether my Ni perceptions are correct or not (although sometimes Fe probably chooses to do this job instead).


----------



## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

OrangeAppled said:


> I have noticed that IxxPs have more of a distaste for their tertiary, or see its unhealthy effects more. IxxJs seem to be in love with their tertiary and don't see its negative effects as much. They seem to especially be drawn to those who have their tertiary as dominant.
> Extroverts obviously have more visible tertiary functions, but they seem more in love with it in themselves .
> 
> I see tertiary Si in me, but in me, it seems childish and without the weight of Je. It's more obviously the impressionistic painting Jung uses as an analogy for Si. I think it makes INFPs extra idealistic, because it compounds the Fi ideals with an injection of Si romanticizing things into something they never actually were.
> ...


Maybe it's just me, but what you describe sounds like Ni, not Si? I am not seeing the impressionistic attitude towards sensory data Si types have, but what I see is the impressions of Ni, understanding that forms are not static but changeable.


----------



## ScarlettHayden (Jun 8, 2012)

I have a love-hate relationship with my tertiary Fi. As I'm growing older it gets easier to use, but it tends to flicker on and off. It tends to make me feel like one day I'm a robot incapable of feeling and the next day I'm an emotional mess. I'm developing it through taking more of an active interest in the philosophy of ethics though. That much is rational at least.



ephemereality said:


> Maybe it's just me, but what you describe sounds like Ni, not Si? I am not seeing the impressionistic attitude towards sensory data Si types have, but what I see is the impressions of Ni, understanding that forms are not static but changeable.


Not sure if this is related or not but you seem to have a strong grasp on functions and I wondered what this is: I've noticed that when I'm remembering the past half the time I can't actually remember what happened. I can only remember them as facts in my mind. For example: It's a fact that I ate toast for breakfast but I can't actually remember eating it. (although this is only an example and it seems like the more distant in my past it is the more 'factual' my memory becomes.)


----------



## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

ScarlettHayden said:


> Not sure if this is related or not but you seem to have a strong grasp on functions and I wondered what this is: I've noticed that when I'm remembering the past half the time I can't actually remember what happened. I can only remember them as facts in my mind. For example: It's a fact that I ate toast for breakfast but I can't actually remember eating it. (although this is only an example and it seems like the more distant in my past it is the more 'factual' my memory becomes.)


Seems like sensory repression. I know that I ate yogurt with jam if I have to try to recall my breakfast, though I rarely if ever think of the past and what I've done, but trying to recall the action etc., I don't do that. I don't recall the taste either really, I don't recall anything pertaining to actually performing the action of eating yoghurt. I know I ate breakfast but I might not remember what I ate either, in some cases. Most of all, I don't even care about thinking about it. Breakfast is such a concrete object in a sense. 

I don't think I even think in terms of facts either. For me, the way I experience things, it's all in the shape of personal impressions. I feel/experience/intuit/vibe/just know things. I don't even think about that it is a fact I ate breakfast. That seems like a preference towards thinking and I'm inclined to say Ti, because Te would focus more on the object definitions i.e. it included a bowl and a spoon, yogurt and jam. I remember that I cleaned my bowl before because I had no clean china left, but again, it's not a fact. It's just an impression that I cleaned it, an experience. More focus on the meaning of the cleaning experience rather than its properties.


----------



## mushr00m (May 23, 2011)

OrangeAppled said:


> I have noticed that IxxPs have more of a distaste for their tertiary, or see its unhealthy effects more. IxxJs seem to be in love with their tertiary and don't see its negative effects as much. They seem to especially be drawn to those who have their tertiary as dominant.
> Extroverts obviously have more visible tertiary functions, but they seem more in love with it in themselves .
> 
> I see tertiary Si in me, but in me, it seems childish and without the weight of Je. It's more obviously the impressionistic painting Jung uses as an analogy for Si. I think it makes INFPs extra idealistic, because it compounds the Fi ideals with an injection of Si romanticizing things into something they never actually were.
> ...


This is a really wonderful post OrangeAppled. Really insightful and so bang on. I relate so well to this and it's just like you articulated my own thoughts, lol, especially with the _distorted Si_, had no proper idea what functions were related or how they operated in this escapist to daydream mode. Makes a lot of sense now. :happy:


----------



## FlightsOfFancy (Dec 30, 2012)

I sometimes want to feel more and other times hate that I feel. I totally agree with the tert being that way.


----------



## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

mimesis said:


> I'm not talking about someone's type (I really can't be bothered much with how people type themselves) but about a consistent and coherent understanding of the theory/functions.


LOL suit yourself.
If that is real for you.


----------



## mimesis (Apr 10, 2012)

hornet said:


> LOL suit yourself.
> If that is real for you.


Oh, please tell me what's real, I'm curious to know.


----------



## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

mimesis said:


> Oh, please tell me what's real, I'm curious to know.


Impossible! 
Reality is beyond us, even our object relations are just subjective projections.


----------



## Chesire Tower (Jan 19, 2013)

hornet said:


> LOL suit yourself.
> If that is real for you.





hornet said:


> Impossible!
> Reality is beyond us, even our object relations are just subjective projections.


----------



## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Frenetic Tranquility said:


> While I find Lenore's readings fairly good, remember...all these definitions are written by people. And people are not infallible. Also, it's not a necessary condition to agree with everything that Lenore says, just because a few things make sense.
> 
> I don't know very many grounded N types...at least not till later on in life. That includes NP types, and certainly INFP types. Every NP I know, including myself, we are all notorious for just randomly losing shit and being space-cadets. Like my ENFP best friend just last week randomly dropped a huge envelop filled with over 1000 dollars in cash. And this isn't the first time she's done it - in fact the 7th time! Same thing. And my INFP friend "lost her keys", which was actually her leaving her keys in the door to her apartment. Several days later her neighbor gave them to her. Another ENFP friend locked himself out of his car, with it running. That was a super grounded Si maneuver! The point being, when the sensory function is in the tertiary or inferior, it implies that we suck at using it, at least a little. In other words, more or less the opposite of all those things that Si is good at.


Exactly, and that's why Si has a grounding effect on your consciousness because Ne and Ni aren't grounded in terms of cognition, being intuition. It's countered by the grounded nature of sensation in the unconsciousness. If you wouldn't have that grounding effect of sensation in the inferior, you would be completely out of touch with reality, far more than you actually are.

Read Jung's personality portraits of the Ne and Ni type to understand what I mean. The types that repress sensation the most. This is not the aim in healthy individuals to achieve this mental state. Similarly, you will see that in immature sensation types, the opposite occur. They cling to the material world _too much_. 

People need to understand that Jungian typology is first and foremost about finding psychological balance rather than emphasizing one over the other.


----------



## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

mimesis said:


> @ephemereality
> 
> I seriously can't see what your objective is here, and on other threads. I have seen you change type yourself at least 4 times in a year, and it's hilarious how your logic shifts along with it. When you identified Ti in yourself, you'd tell a Te user the disagreement you have is 'obviously' a Ti vs Te thing, only to declare yourself being a Te user a few months later. The same happened with Ni vs Ne or supposedly a 'Fe user with strong Fi' or whatever. You will accept any logical explanation that confirms your actual beliefs and reject anything that invalidates it with whatever suits you. To be either INTP INTJ INFJ or INFP is quite a difference, but you seem to be unable to discern it in yourself, and react pretty hostile with regard to feedback or criticism from others. Whether this will change and improve is really up to you and your attitude. I'd suggest you stop trying to prove yourself and start trying to get it, by listening to what others say.


tl;dr I have no interest or point arguing with you if you all bother to do is creating a nice-looking accusation.


----------



## mimesis (Apr 10, 2012)

hornet said:


> Impossible!
> Reality is beyond us, even our object relations are just subjective projections.


Oh what a bummer! Then again, it's your perception (er projection) that I was aiming at something real.

I don't think a coherent and relatively consistent understanding _of a theory_ (not too much self-contradictory, _in particular_ not when you claim to be self-aware or competent and suggest that other's lack it) is an unrealistic expectation, even more when people assert themselves as such.

It's a bit tiresome also to see people explain their functions (or type sometimes), 'this is what it is because this is what my function does, because this is what I am, blah blah' and before you know it it's the complete opposite function (or type) they claim to have and seek to teach others. Mind you, I don't mind people not knowing, or changing type or opinion. 

If anything @_OrangeAppled_ has been very consistent and coherent as long as I am here, while still improving (extending) and refining her understanding, and sharing that (and I'm glad she does). It's possible to progress that way (that doesn't make it inconsistent or incoherent I mean), and if she doesn't understand something well, she will say it.


----------



## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

mimesis said:


> Oh what a bummer! Then again, it's your perception (er projection) that I was aiming at something real.
> 
> I don't think a coherent and relatively consistent understanding _of a theory_ (not too much self-contradictory, _in particular_ not when you claim to be self-aware or competent and suggest that other's lack it) is an unrealistic expectation, even more when people assert themselves as such.
> 
> ...


Yes I get that it annoys you.
Sometimes I'm annoyed too.
That is just the way it goes.

I can see that consistency is a great ideal for you.
To me it isn't as big a deal. I've never been very consistent.
Cause then I feel like I have just tied myself down.

This is how I think about it.
What if the next second you learn something that makes all that you know false?
Happens to me a lot. Ni is a bitch like that.
So I can't value it too much. Sure it is nice to have continuity.
It gives you space to breathe, but continuity is just an illusion.
Over time you will see that all it ever was, was a gradual decline.
Too small to be seen from moment to moment, but nevertheless relentless.


----------



## mimesis (Apr 10, 2012)

Introverted Sensation CJ Jung. 
Classics in the History of Psychology -- Jung (1921/1923) Chapter 10



> This is the case, for instance, when the individual is a creative artist. But, since this is the exception, it usually happens that the characteristic introverted difficulty of expression also conceals his irrationality. On the contrary, he may actually stand out by the very calmness and passivity of his demeanour, or by his rational self-control. This peculiarity, which often leads the superficial judgment astray, is really due to his unrelatedness to objects. Normally the object is not consciously depreciated in the least, but its stimulus is removed from it, because it is immediately replaced by a subjective reaction, *which is no longer related to the reality of the object*. This, of course, has the same effect as a depreciation of the object. Such a type can easily make one question why one should exist at all; or why objects in general should have any right to existence, since everything essential happens without the object.


----------



## mimesis (Apr 10, 2012)

hornet said:


> Yes I get that it annoys you.
> Sometimes I'm annoyed too.
> That is just the way it goes.
> 
> ...


If you please, you are projecting things that I don't suggest. 
I am fully aware of the concept of impermanence.


----------



## Chesire Tower (Jan 19, 2013)

While I love my Ti (tertiary); I have a love/hate relationship with my Se. When I am happy and grounded, I sometimes love it and gorge myself in it, but when I am stressed out, in emotional pain or physically ill; it terrifies me and I fear of drowning in it. One of the things that helped me figure out my type was the difference between Si/Se or INXP vs. INXJ. Si tends to be more puritan and Se more sensual and indulgent - _moi_.
@OrangeAppled, I think that the reason that IXXsJ tend to like their tertiary more than IXXPs; is that IXXJs like EXXPs start with a perceiving function and end with a perceiving function; where as, in contrast EXXJs and IXXPs start with a judging function and end with a judging function. What this means is that every Ji/Je's tertiary is a perceiving function and every Pi/Pe's is a judging function. So, I think that the main reason that P types love their tertiary, while Js dislike it is for that very reason. 

Having a P function in the tertiary spot and be unsettling for a J type who seeks obtain closure; however for a P type, OTOH, a J function in the tertiary position is welcoming because it helps the them experience some sense of closure. I can't of course really speak to the EXXJs but when my Ni and Fe has failed to bring me clarity; I am grateful for my T to step in there and give me a good dose of reality. 


* *




This is especially true when other people who may or may not have an dubious agenda - contrary to my best interests; attempt to manipulate me with their emotionally convenient ideas of who they seek to classify and define me as. IOW, If Ni and Fe have somehow failed to enable my bullshit detector; I can always count on Ti to save the day. 

roud:


----------



## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

mimesis said:


> Please, you are projecting things that I don't suggest.
> I am fully aware of the concept of impermanence.


Good for you.
Hope it serves you well.
Sure I'm projecting, always will.
Now are we going to enter the illusion again and debate our ass off.
Or are we going to have a meta discussion about the meta discussion? 
I'll rather watch a movie on Netflix if you don't mind.


----------



## mimesis (Apr 10, 2012)

TreasureTower said:


> While I love my Ti (tertiary); I have a love/hate relationship with my Se. When I am happy and grounded, I sometimes love it and gorge myself in it, but when I am stressed out, in emotional pain or physically ill; it terrifies me and I fear of drowning in it. One of the things that helped me figure out my type was the difference between Si/Se or INXP vs. INXJ. Si tends to be more puritan and Se more sensual and indulgent - _moi_.


In general you could say that extraverted function is 'extensive' (and concrete) and introverted 'intensive' (and abstract, see quote) which may lead to a stereotype like 'indulgence' vs 'puritan' (are you sure, perhaps you mean purist?). Jung would call Si abstract sensation 'aesthetic' as opposed to 'sensuous'. Si could still be indulgent with regard to intensity. (and for instance susceptible to (physical) addiction).



Abstraction said:


> Abstraction is an activity pertaining to the psychological functions in general. There is an abstract thinking, just as there is abstract feeling, sensation, and intuition. Abstract thinking singles out the rational, logical qualities of a given content from its intellectually irrelevant components. Abstract feeling does the same with a content characterized by its feeling-values . . . . Abstract sensation would be aesthetic as opposed to sensuous sensation, and abstract intuition would be symbolic as opposed to fantastic intuition.["Definitions," CW 6, par. 678.]
> Source


Si or Se, it may operate a bit different though as an inferior function compared to dominant (or tert). 

http://personalitycafe.com/cognitiv...-negative-behavior-complexes.html#post2371763


----------



## Chesire Tower (Jan 19, 2013)

mimesis said:


> TreasureTower said:
> 
> 
> > In general you could say that extraverted function is 'extensive' (and concrete) and introverted 'intensive' (and abstract, see quote) which may lead to a stereotype like 'indulgence' vs 'purist'. Si could still be indulgent with regard to intensity. (and for instance susceptible to addiction)
> ...



10/introverted-vs-extraverted-functions/2/



> Extraverted Sensing (Se) vs. Introverted Sensing (Si)
> 
> Like ENPs, Extraverted Sensing (Se) types (ESTPs and ESFPs) are compelled to experience the world in all its diversity. *They are lovers of sensory and material novelty*. They enjoy new fashions, tastes, and experiences. For ESPs, the Si approach is likely to seem overly conservative and mundane.
> 
> ...


While I am definitely NOT an S dom or aux; of the two; I relate far more to inferior Se, than I do to tertiary Si. If this were not the case; I doubt I would have so easily gotten into debt, for example. I have also had tremendous difficulty leaving a romantic relationship that was unhealthy for me if the sex was good.


----------



## mimesis (Apr 10, 2012)

TreasureTower said:


> 10/introverted-vs-extraverted-functions/2/
> 
> 
> 
> While I am definitely NOT an S dom or aux; of the two; I relate far more to inferior Se, than I do to tertiary Si. If this were not the case; I doubt I would have so easily gotten into debt, for example. I have also had tremendous difficulty leaving a romantic relationship that was unhealthy for me if the sex was good.


Well, you sure have a very literal at face value perception. Like, I (Si tert) had over 10 years of sex with a Si aux, and the sex was so bad if we had any at all, but being Si users we didn't care. Yep, that is sooo me. :laughing:

Anyway, I was explaining the difference between Si/Se, in a conceptual way, not in a concrete sense (concrete situations (stereotypes)). Because this concrete behavior is not exclusively significant. For instance, Si and Se can be both indulgent to physical addiction, where Si (dom)-Ne (inf) could be more conservative (what bad could happen to me if I leave him?). So it could explain the same situation in a different way. Question then is, was it really because the sex was so good, or because of fear to be alone (or “The best way to live life is stick to what I already know, to the ‘tried and true’.”)? But you don't have to answer that here of course.


----------



## Chesire Tower (Jan 19, 2013)

ephemereality said:


> tl;dr I have no interest or point arguing with you if you all bother to do is creating a nice-looking accusation.


Perhaps, you should reread his post; you might even _learn_ something.

:happy:


ETA: I keep telling you that _you_ can't comprehend the way that I express myself. I already asked you to respect the fact that I am not interested in either my Enneagram/MBTI/Socionics/Astral/tartot/palm reading whatever to be *critiqued by you* and yet; there is another post in the Enneagram forum of you doing just that. When I ask someone very nicely - as I did you; to respect my wishes; I expect them to do so. I realize that I may be being a bit harsh here, but I MADE MYSELF VERY CLEAR and you ignored my wishes. I have no wish to spar with you but I tend to get very ornery when my requests continue to get repeatedly ignored.


----------



## Chesire Tower (Jan 19, 2013)

mimesis said:


> Well, you sure have a very literal at face value perception. Like, I (Si tert) had over 10 years of sex with a Si aux, and the sex was so bad if we had any at all, but being Si users we didn't care. Yep, that is sooo me. :laughing:


It's not that I place a particularly high value on sex or on materialism in general: that is why it's my _inferior_ function. I don't trust my sexual desires to guide me because I have gotten enslaved by them in the past; at the expense of my far more important _emotional_ well being. In fact, _actual_ sex need not even occur. It's more than enough if someone, were to have a powerful mental grip on me; due to an overwhelming attraction for them. But as I continue to grow; I am becoming more and more able to reject that kind of visceral hold on me; if it's not healthy for me, overall.


----------



## Vaka (Feb 26, 2010)

I'm p sure @_OrangeAppled_ was talking about Si bastardized by Ne(and Ji), if you want to call it that. It's not pure...it can lock the INxP into their own reality, not 'reality'. So out the door flies the grounding effect


----------



## g_w (Apr 16, 2013)

Frenetic Tranquility said:


> I won't make any implications, but here's how I would differentiate Si from Ni:
> 
> Si: Paired with Ne, it is about relating things. So when you experience something, there is an attempt to instantly relate that experience to another experience. It is a 1 to 1 function, although many 1 to 1s can be built from each new experience, depending on how many things are related.
> 
> ...


You rat bastard. You NAILED me. :shocked:

...with the single caveat, and I don't know if this is function of my MBTI type (INTJ) or my Enneagram (5w4) or what.
But I have an extensive, encyclopaedic inner library, against which I cross-check the Se details for the "Best Current Match" to aid
the Ni. When there is a near-exact match, I skip the rest of the inner processing (akin to when one touches a hot stove and the nerve impulses go to the spinal cord back to the arm, skipping the trip to the brain and the conscious thought), resulting in "Faster Than Light" or "Warp Speed" intellectual capability: almost the only thing which can outstrip the speed of the INTJ laser. :ninja:
I've blown away a couple of people during PMs on personal topics when my Warp Drive didn't misfire.

(Cue everyone on this thread as Han Solo, to me as Luke Skywalker: "Great. Don't get COCKY, kid.") :tongue:

/smug mode OFF>


----------



## g_w (Apr 16, 2013)

hal0hal0 said:


> This one started out as a tree branch (I used to use tree branches as a starting point for a sort of "baseline" pattern, but I admit I've grown tired of that pattern and it fails to inspire me anymore), but then I noticed it kind of looked like a face so I started shading in certain areas, developing the eye, etc..


THAT is *mesmerizing*. It reminded me of a tree branch, then the mathematical topic of "continued fractions" and then capillaries and then...the EYE...it became both an Eagle and a Face.

I'm going to be gnawing on that one for *weeks*.




hal0hal0 said:


> This one is a "repeat" of the above technique. I should point out that I almost never repeat a given style. It's always evolving. I can't, for instance, sit there drawing the same face over and over. More accurately, I can't draw portrait after portrait unless I twist the details in interesting ways (this one is "thornier" than the one above, for instance). The details have to be fresh, new and exciting, for me.
> 
> 
> * *


That is a "closeup" of the guy above, right? /Philistine>




hal0hal0 said:


> This one I had the idea of making a fractal face and doing shading purely by altering the graphite used (i.e., 2H, 3H, 4B, etc.). The idea was to reject "smooth" gradations and "digitalize" the image.


That'd make a *great* t-shirt.
Or you could change "Thought Police" to "Grammar Nazi" and put that on a t-shirt as well; I expect you'll be able to retire within
*minutes* from all the Internet sales...

Thanks very much for sharing those!!! -- for the benefit of those of us with *negative* artistic talent. ("Who painted your living room? Vandals?")


----------

