# How do you feel when you're sexualized by mainstream media? (Females Only)



## ScientiaOmnisEst (Oct 2, 2013)

Metasentient said:


> I find it disgusting, distasteful, and a whole host of other things - but the most destructive aspects come from the way that society projects these ideas on women beyond a purely sexual context (as you've said).
> 
> And that, I feel, is nothing more than media-glorified sociopathy.
> 
> ...


See, it's attitudes like these that make me wonder if these concerns are....overhyped. Black-and-white, on a slippery slope towards that you'd-be-nonconformist-too-if-you-were-just-like-me kind of thing. I'll be honest, I read your interpretation of the situation as kind of alarmist and reactionary....

While yes, women are judged more harshly for their appearances, and there are some circles and groups that promote completely unhealthy habits in the name of appearance, I'm inclined to wonder if the effect on average, regular women is....less severe than it's made out to be. I guess....are people really so affected by it? It would seem to me that media-based unrealistic standards are so prevalent that no one cares or takes it too seriously anymore. 

I'd also like to point out the generalization that making oneself socially acceptable in terms of appearance is _not_ necessarily "time consuming and self-destructive" and based on "stringent societal standards". Maybe to be considered glamorous or especially hot, but not to be pretty and attractive. Not from what I've observed at least.

But before I end up throwing insults around, where would you say the line is between thinking and conforming? Can a woman ever "improve" her appearance without it merely being a testament to what an unthinking slave to societal standards she is?


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## Metalize (Dec 18, 2014)

Thaumaturgic Theorist said:


> See, it's attitudes like these that make me wonder if these concerns are....overhyped. Black-and-white, on a slippery slope towards that you'd-be-nonconformist-too-if-you-were-just-like-me kind of thing. I'll be honest, I read your interpretation of the situation as kind of alarmist and reactionary....
> 
> While yes, women are judged more harshly for their appearances, and there are some circles and groups that promote completely unhealthy habits in the name of appearance, I'm inclined to wonder if the effect on average, regular women is....less severe than it's made out to be. I guess....are people really so affected by it? It would seem to me that media-based unrealistic standards are so prevalent that no one cares or takes it too seriously anymore.
> 
> ...



I think a lot of my perspective comes from my particular background and where I live now (and that of the people I've personally met), so it's more than a little inaccurate to be labeled "alarmist" when I'm not even referencing any third-party source (though I would implicate media/cultural influence in some of the ingrained social behaviors/tendencies I've seen). 

And to be honest with you, it doesn't seem like you fall into that group of people that I was talking about... so naturally, you would not see these negative lifelong effects firsthand. It's kind of important to be able to realize that other people's perspectives are actually not less relevant, just because you've had the luxury of not encountering that situation yourself. 

And oh yes, such things can certainly be so to people who were not naturally endowed with those traits beneficial to them in society. 

Your question is a tad sardonic, so forgive me if I don't feel it's worth my time to consider. Please attempt to frame it better if you'd like a serious response.

I'd rather not degenerate this discussion to insults as well.


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

> My personal way of countering it in daily life ...*I refuse to wear any make-up or dye my hair (if I weren't blonde, I would refuse to dye it that color due to its symbolic associations in society), try not to wear high-fashion brands as they endorse anti-humanitarian treatment of people, will do only what I consider optimal to my personal health, and not whatever the weight police are trying to peddle today, and essentially speak about these things whenever I see them. Which is a topic that never runs out...


And how is that working for you?


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## ScientiaOmnisEst (Oct 2, 2013)

Metasentient said:


> I think a lot of my perspective comes from my particular background and where I live now (and that of the people I've personally met), so it's more than a little inaccurate to be labeled "alarmist" when I'm not even referencing any third-party source (though I would implicate media/cultural influence in some of the ingrained social behaviors/tendencies I've seen).
> 
> And to be honest with you, it doesn't seem like you fall into that group of people that I was talking about... so naturally, you would not see these negative lifelong effects firsthand. It's kind of important to be able to realize that other people's perspectives are actually not less relevant, just because you've had the luxury of not encountering that situation yourself.
> 
> ...


All right then. I suspected personal experience plays a large role in our separate views: you've seen it firsthand, I take it, while I only really understand it all as a concept. So there's a divide there, obviously influencing our views and our opinions of each others' views. 

Let's try again: regarding appearance, where does societal/cultural influence end and personal preference begin?


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## Metalize (Dec 18, 2014)

Living dead said:


> And how is that working for you?


In which way?


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## Metalize (Dec 18, 2014)

Thaumaturgic Theorist said:


> All right then. I suspected personal experience plays a large role in our separate views: you've seen it firsthand, I take it, while I only really understand it all as a concept.
> 
> Let's try again: regarding appearance, where does societal/cultural influence end and personal preference begin?


Okay. That's a tricky subject, because much of what we perceive to be our own personal preference is actually societal/cultural influence. Beauty standards change and sometimes flip in the same countries (over time), while in other parts of the world, they are complete opposites... 

I'd think it's extremely difficult to define. For me personally, I would consider any person that consistently has their own stylistic preferences that remain independent of society's current trends, to be relatively autonomous in this regard. Not that they are necessarily always contrarian to social trends, but rather that they are able to reference current trends, nonexistent trends, and their own artistic preferences that don't appear to be immediately derived from current standards of beauty. I hope I was able to depict this type of person, as I understand/interpret them.


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## Metalize (Dec 18, 2014)

I do have strong feelings on the subject from a lifetime of observing different people... my friends who are socially accepted for their looks (working as supermodels), and those who've had medical issues that caused them to basically be born obese. I have no doubt they would have had very different lives had they been born in different cultures/environments, but as I compare them and see firsthand - it's amazing how these "microaggressions" can accumulate over time and impact a person's life and outlook.

I have no doubt I have benefited more often than not on my end, when I actually think about it. Still, I have contempt for any system that enforces such damaging mindsets.


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

Metasentient said:


> In which way?


How are you benefiting from being like you described?


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## TheProphetLaLa (Aug 18, 2014)

Our culture has this odd double standard where women are hyper sexualized in the media and at the same time shamed for being sexual. I don't really understand how people rationalize this to themselves. It seems they want to see sexy and sexual women, but at the same time when they do encounter them in real life they find it insulting….Maybe they see the women in videos and magazines as simply a form of entertainment and not real women with lives and feeling at all? Sometimes it feels like you're walking a tight rope, and you can't really win either way. Its like a lose lose situation. The only kind of women that seems acceptable to people seems to be the modest "virtuous nice girl" who is at the same time incredibly beautiful. Any other kind of woman is thrown into the crossfire. Which I suppose is why makeup and such is seen as more acceptable (as it only accentuates the beauty of the face) and revealing clothing is seen as trashy and dirty, although both are technically enhancing your beauty or general level of attractiveness.


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## Metalize (Dec 18, 2014)

Living dead said:


> How are you benefiting from being like you described?


Socially, I'm quite happy. I get the feeling you're asking about romance? I've not heard negative remarks in this department, though I tend to not associate with superficial people by principle so that might've had more to do with it.

Fortunately, my knowledge of IT takes precedence over a "synthetic" appearance at work (emphasizing need for cosmetics, not basic hygiene), which might not be the case in a highly bureaucratic corporate environment... and I consider that a problem.


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## Kavik (Apr 3, 2014)

inthesnowman said:


> It still applies to real life. There are very few men who don't value women as there are very few women who don't value men. They are the minorities. We are attracted to each other, we value each other, and we need each other. Sure, the media sometimes gives things a bad spin. But that doesn't change that in reality, men for the most part recognize women's value and worth.


Except we're not talking about real life. It's gender norms and the representation of them in the media.


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## inthesnowman (Jun 18, 2014)

Kavik said:


> Except we're not talking about real life. It's gender norms and the representation of them in the media.


Which is why my original comment was about representation in the media, and then when the reply was that it didn't apply to real life because it was satirical I pointed ot that it did. I did both media and real life, I am well aware of the context of the thread.


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## FlaviaGemina (May 3, 2012)

I'm not famous enough to ever have been sexualised by mainstream media.


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## Kavik (Apr 3, 2014)

inthesnowman said:


> Which is why my original comment was about representation in the media, and then when the reply was that it didn't apply to real life because it was satirical I pointed ot that it did. I did both media and real life, I am well aware of the context of the thread.


A satirical character is still a stereotype and unrealistic.


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## inthesnowman (Jun 18, 2014)

Kavik said:


> A satirical character is still a stereotype.


And? Yes it's satire, yes it's a stereotype, but it plays on real scenarios. Plus, it is a form of media. That's why it is a valid observation in the context of this discussipn.


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## TwinAnthos (Aug 11, 2014)

Metasentient said:


> I find it disgusting, distasteful, and a whole host of other things - but the most destructive aspects come from the way that society projects these ideas on women beyond a purely sexual context (as you've said).
> 
> And that, I feel, is nothing more than media-glorified sociopathy.
> 
> ...


I agree with you but actually it's red heads that are overrepresented among female top bosses while blond girls are very underrepresented, people think it's because of the dumb blonde stereotype.


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## Mutant Hive Queen (Oct 29, 2013)

@Metasentient

As another question for you, do you believe that differing beauty standards cannot coexist? Like, would it ever be possible to find both thin and fat bodies attractive, on a societal level?


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## Metalize (Dec 18, 2014)

Autvoyeur said:


> @_Metasentient_
> 
> As another question for you, do you believe that differing beauty standards cannot coexist? Like, would it ever be possible to find both thin and fat bodies attractive, on a societal level?


I've got quite a few questions pending. I'll get back to them, hopefully with some refs to back up what I'm saying (because I realized how some of my earlier phrases can sound very extreme without historical or even modern context.)


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## Metalize (Dec 18, 2014)

TwinAnthos said:


> I agree with you but actually it's red heads that are overrepresented among female top bosses while blond girls are very underrepresented, people think it's because of the dumb blonde stereotype.


It could be, though I've honestly not observed this trend myself. I had to do some market research for a company I worked for some years ago, and it was a trend that was impossible not to see after a while. Almost invariably, female C-level execs of major corporations have tended to be white, blonde (dyed or natural), blue-eyed, thin or average weight. Barbara Koster of Prudential comes to mind as an exception... but I'm just notating what I've seen. I'm sure there's a stat for it somewhere.


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## wums (Nov 25, 2013)

Metasentient said:


> I think a lot of my perspective comes from my particular background


Can you elaborate more on this? Why do you think your personal background is so different? I mean everyone is exposed to *mainstream* media, that's the whole point of it. And why shouldn't women be trendy if that's what they want?

(sorry didn't see your last posts when I wrote this)


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## Mutant Hive Queen (Oct 29, 2013)

Metasentient said:


> I've got quite a few questions pending. I'll get back to them, hopefully with some refs to back up what I'm saying (because I realized how some of my earlier phrases can sound very extreme without historical or even modern context.)


Alright. 

On a completely unrelated side note, when you mentioned the questions pending I had the most hilarious mental image/flashback but that's a massive derail.


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## Kavik (Apr 3, 2014)

inthesnowman said:


> And? Yes it's satire, yes it's a stereotype, but it plays on real scenarios. Plus, it is a form of media. That's why it is a valid observation in the context of this discussipn.


You're still not getting what I'm saying and I don't know how else to explain it to you.


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## mhysa (Nov 27, 2014)

i've learned to be happy with and own my appearance recently, but the sexualization of women in the media used to make me feel pretty inferior, especially since i think there's also a general message that you need to be beautiful to be successful and happy in life (or that's the message i got growing up, anyway). for years, i was convinced that i wasn't pretty or thin enough, or that my skin wasn't nice enough. i used to seriously compare myself to women who had been airbrushed and photoshopped in pictures and commercials. i used to watch shows and movies about teenagers where the characters were played by much older, more physically developed actresses and wonder why i couldn't look like those characters despite being the same age. stuff like that. i realize now that i'm older that comparing myself to other women isn't going to make me look any better, even if the standards i'm comparing myself to AREN'T completely ridiculous, but i hurt for younger girls (or even women my age or older) who haven't figured that out yet.

i think that seeing airbrushed, perfect-looking women all the time can be really damaging to a young girl or woman's self-esteem, and that's the effect of sexualizing women in the media that bothers me the most. i think people are starting to wake up to that a little bit, and that self-love and body positivity are really starting to become a mainstream thing, but yeah.


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

I don't think that's media fault,it's competition that always existed.Ok,the standards are probably higher nowadays but even if they weren't and there was no celebrities,photoshop,etc,women would still have someone to compare themselves to.


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## Clyme (Jul 17, 2014)

Honestly, I really appreciate everyone's responses and I've read through everyone's different perspectives and experiences. It's been really helpful to hear from everyone directly on your first-hand experiences. So, thank you so much to everyone who has posted and taken time to contribute their thoughts. I really appreciate it.

@Living dead
I do have a question for you, because it's something that I'm genuinely curious about. Do you believe that it's acceptable for the female body to be marketed as a product? Why or why not?

Also, I'll likely ask people other questions too as this discussion continues.


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## perpetuallyreticent (Sep 24, 2014)

In regards to what @conscius asked on about a woman owning her sexuality vs it being exploited.... Man, at this point, I don't even know. I think the former is what we want to believe is happening, but in actuality, this notion is quickly being taken over and overshadowed. Meaning that us owning our sexuality and being comfortable showing off skin, being sexual or what say you IS in fact being exploited. Sometimes this behavior in women is even promoted and validated but it's just a fucking farce in the end. Sexuality is exploited, but not necessarily just for women. Media craves anything sex, and women just happen to be the main source of what people want to see. What's relevant and interesting is a woman, her body and anything involving her sexuality. 

I really don't think there's a straight answer to that question, though. I mean, yes, women nowadays are proudly owning their sexuality. But they're also being exploited. It's not a situation where it's one or the other- it's both. Both are coexisting albeit not harmoniously in any sense of the word. They're more or less bleeding together into this one big fucking goop that people can't seem to pick out what's what. Is a woman owning her sexuality by posing nude on a magazine cover? Yes. Is her sexuality being exploited for entertainment? Yes. Because sex sells, and everyone knows it. Even the girl posing for the magazine knows it. They go hand in hand. Until the over sexualization in media stops, women (and even men) will continue to be exploited in terms of their sexuality and bodies. It's just the days we're living in.


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

Clyme said:


> Honestly, I really appreciate everyone's responses and I've read through everyone's different perspectives and experiences. It's been really helpful to hear from everyone directly on your first-hand experiences. So, thank you so much to everyone who has posted and taken time to contribute their thoughts. I really appreciate it.
> 
> @Living dead
> I do have a question for you, because it's something that I'm genuinely curious about. Do you believe that it's acceptable for the female body to be marketed as a product? Why or why not?
> ...


Why wouldn't it be acceptable,it is a product,product of some good luck and lots of money and hard work,like everything else.

I still don't see it at all as sexuality being exploited,women just take advantage of the fact that what they already have is valued by society.There is give and take,there always is,everyone's everything gets "exploited" all the time.


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## inthesnowman (Jun 18, 2014)

Living dead said:


> Why wouldn't it be acceptable,it is a product,product of some good luck and lots of money and hard work,like everything else.
> 
> I still don't see it at all as sexuality being exploited,women just take advantage of the fact that what they already have is valued by society.There is give and take,there always is,everyone's everything gets "exploited" all the time.


Unless it's an advertisement for a brothel, a woman's body isn't a product.


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## lunai (Feb 22, 2014)

Clyme said:


> So, I really would like to know what it feels like first-hand when you, as a female, see the way that females are sexualized by mainstream media.


I don't like it. Call me old fashioned or grandma..but I think sex should be more of a private thing of people's bedrooms, not plastered all over the place. I don't care if men want to see sexual imagery, but I don't want to see it in public, in music videos, on casual television, and pretty much everywhere I go. It seems to be getting continuously worse, doesn't society want to have any decency? What's next..are they going to advertise fully nude women on billboards (and cause car crashes)?


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## inthesnowman (Jun 18, 2014)

lunai said:


> I don't like it. It makes me uncomfortable. Call me old fashioned all you want, but I think sex should remain a private thing of people's bedrooms. Not plastered all over the place. I don't care if men want to see sexual imagery, but I don't want to see soft-porn images in public, in music videos, on casual television, and pretty much everywhere I go. It seems to be getting continously worse. What's next..are they going to advertise fully nude women on billboards (and cause car crashes)?


I see you've never driven through las vegas then


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## castigat (Aug 26, 2012)

"women aren't sexualized"
lol ok.


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## lunai (Feb 22, 2014)

inthesnowman said:


> I see you've never driven through las vegas then


Really? And I wonder do accidents happen more frequently nearby? (and I am not talking about accidents like accidental pregnancy)


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## inthesnowman (Jun 18, 2014)

lunai said:


> Really? And I wonder do accidents happen more frequently nearby? (and I am not talking about accidents like accidental pregnancy)
> 
> Imagine though if there were guys on magazines with very tight small clothing and photoshopped bulges, and music videos of men dancing in thongs waving around their you-know-what and singing a song about how big it is. I think (probably?) men might be a little uncomfortable too if they had to see those kinds of thing on a regular basis. haha


Nah, no more accidents than usual around the billboards 

Are you saying that doesn't happen? because it so does...


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## lunai (Feb 22, 2014)

Ok, you are right and I didn't realize those ads too. And please don't quote me. I always edit my post about 20 times because I only visit this forum when I am half asleep. 
(I need to put that on my signature.)


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## inthesnowman (Jun 18, 2014)

Alright that's fine.. and here, enjoy another example 





Oh, and don't forget Magic Mike. That show was *only* the sexualization of men!


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## lunai (Feb 22, 2014)

I have seen that video before I can't believe I did not remember it. It is literally what I just described. Oh, and I am not clicking on or enjoying that example ._.


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## inthesnowman (Jun 18, 2014)

lunai said:


> I have seen that video before I can't believe I did not remember it. It is literally what I just described. Oh, and I am not clicking on or enjoying that example ._.


That video cracks me up, it's so unexpected because they do not fit with that typical "sexy" image 

But, Magic Mike too. I edited and added it to my last comment.


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## lunai (Feb 22, 2014)

inthesnowman said:


> That video cracks me up, it's so unexpected because they do not fit with that typical "sexy" image
> 
> But, Magic Mike too. I edited and added it to my last comment.


Yeah, I guess you have a point. I'd never heard of 'Magic Mike', I just looked it up.


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## Children Of The Bad Revolution (Oct 8, 2013)

mhysa said:


> i've learned to be happy with and own my appearance recently, but the sexualization of women in the media used to make me feel pretty inferior, especially since i think there's also a general message that you need to be beautiful to be successful and happy in life (or that's the message i got growing up, anyway). for years, i was convinced that i wasn't pretty or thin enough, or that my skin wasn't nice enough. i used to seriously compare myself to women who had been airbrushed and photoshopped in pictures and commercials. i used to watch shows and movies about teenagers where the characters were played by much older, more physically developed actresses and wonder why i couldn't look like those characters despite being the same age. stuff like that. i realize now that i'm older that comparing myself to other women isn't going to make me look any better, even if the standards i'm comparing myself to AREN'T completely ridiculous, but i hurt for younger girls (or even women my age or older) who haven't figured that out yet.
> 
> i think that seeing airbrushed, perfect-looking women all the time can be really damaging to a young girl or woman's self-esteem, and that's the effect of sexualizing women in the media that bothers me the most. i think people are starting to wake up to that a little bit, and that self-love and body positivity are really starting to become a mainstream thing, but yeah.


i agree. i think people gradually begin to happier as they get older but it is very difficult. its very hard especially for women considering the media is aimed at us making us feel inadequate (too fat, too thin, not enough curves, too many curves, lose weight go to the gym, too skinny, you look anorexic, don't have blonde hair? not desirable, have brunette hair? boring, prudish. small tits, you look like a little boy. big tits, you look like a slut'. We basically can't 'win'. 

very difficult to be happy with your outside shell; takes years to come to acceptance. i think there is something wrong with that but doubtful anything is going to get easier anytime soon.

i find it sad a fellow woman feels that they need to compare themselves to other women. thats destined to make you unhappy. don't play into that game. like dita von teese said "You could be the juiciest peach in the world but there will still be someone who hates peaches. be yourself cause thats all you have, really.


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

Women's unhappiness with what they look like is no one's fault but their genetic's and lazy personality in some cases."Media" does nothing and it's not anybody else's fault,it's fault of individuals who can neither accept reality about what they look like or make themselves fit positively into it.

Btw body positivity,self love thing is bs,disgusting bs.You don't just get to love yourself by default,if it was meant to be that easy then it would be.


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## Consolidated Potato (Feb 2, 2015)

Living dead said:


> Women's unhappiness with what they look like is no one's fault but their genetic's and lazy personality in some cases."Media" does nothing and it's not anybody else's fault,it's fault of individuals who can neither accept reality about what they look like or make themselves fit positively into it.


Wow... that's harsh but it's kind of true. Being too hung up on one's own appearances can be a major detriment to one's own self-esteem if a person doesn't measure up to some unattainable standard or if a person only sees their own flaws. I think self-acceptance is important here.



> Btw body positivity,self love thing is bs,disgusting bs.You don't just get to love yourself by default,if it was meant to be that easy then it would be.


I don't understand that mentality. How is body positivity and loving oneself, presumably in a non-narcissistic way, disgusting bs?


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## Children Of The Bad Revolution (Oct 8, 2013)

Living dead said:


> Women's unhappiness with what they look like is no one's fault but their genetic's and lazy personality in some cases."Media" does nothing and it's not anybody else's fault,it's fault of individuals who can neither accept reality about what they look like or make themselves fit positively into it.
> 
> Btw body positivity,self love thing is bs,disgusting bs.You don't just get to love yourself by default,if it was meant to be that easy then it would be.


I honestly don't understand what you're on about. Maybe you should stop being ignorant to the world around you, then we can talk.


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

Consolidated Potato said:


> Wow... that's harsh but it's kind of true. Being too hung up on one's own appearances can be a major detriment to one's own self-esteem if a person doesn't measure up to some unattainable standard or if a person only sees their own flaws. I think self-acceptance is important here.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't understand that mentality. How is body positivity and loving oneself, presumably in a non-narcissistic way, disgusting bs?


Because people do get narcissistic for no reason whatsoever.Don't get me wrong,I don't care if anyone's fat,hairy,full of cellulite,etc at home,bothering no one.But people think their fat ass and hairy arm pits are something revolutionary and feel the need to plaster them all over social media and then even bigger losers think people who do that are awesome,empowering,"brave"
They think they are better than regular attention whores but in reality they are just uglier


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## Consolidated Potato (Feb 2, 2015)

Living dead said:


> Because people do get narcissistic for no reason whatsoever.Don't get me wrong,I don't care if anyone's fat,hairy,full of cellulite,etc at home,bothering no one.But people think their fat ass and hairy arm pits are something revolutionary and feel the need to plaster them all over social media and then even bigger losers think people who do that are awesome,empowering,"brave"
> They think they are better than regular attention whores but in reality they are just uglier


Well... I'd actually agree with you. Although as long as people don't become narcissistic or start to think they're better than others then I don't have a problem with self-empowerment. Especially for women.


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

Consolidated Potato said:


> Especially for women.


Why?


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## Consolidated Potato (Feb 2, 2015)

Living dead said:


> Why?


You're asking me why I'd support women who are advocating for self-empowerment?

Well, there's the aspect that women tend to be judged on their looks. Men are too to some degree, but not nearly as much as women are. I think the movement to encourage people to be happy with their own appearance is an attempt to express to other women that there is no one standard to beauty. Although you don't agree, the media, meaning the fashion industry, modeling, advertising, etc sell an image IMO, and if a person doesn't fit that image then they shouldn't consider themselves to be attractive. I think you've bought into that mentality and while you may not technically be wrong, much of the industry that sells sex and beauty are run by men and cater to men. That's why I think that women who object to such a system are trying to fight such appearance negativity to anyone who doesn't fit the standard beauty mold.

Not to mention that other than beauty, women are expected to behave in certain ways and discouraged from certain behaviors. For example, the traits of being assertive and confident are extremely positive traits in men, but if women express too much of it will be deemed the "bitch". That's a huge double standard and one that will make sure women aren't on a level playing field in areas such as business and politics. It shows, since most politicians still tend to be men as well as most high ranking business officials.


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

Consolidated Potato said:


> You're asking me why I'd support women who are advocating for self-empowerment?
> 
> Well, there's the aspect that women tend to be judged on their looks. Men are too to some degree, but not nearly as much as women are. I think the movement to encourage people to be happy with their own appearance is an attempt to express to other women that there is no one standard to beauty. Although you don't agree, the media, meaning the fashion industry, modeling, advertising, etc sell an image IMO, and if a person doesn't fit that image then they shouldn't consider themselves to be attractive. I think you've bought into that mentality and while you may not technically be wrong, much of the industry that sells sex and beauty are run by men and cater to men. That's why I think that women who object to such a system are trying to fight such appearance negativity to anyone who doesn't fit the standard beauty mold.
> 
> Not to mention that other than beauty, women are expected to behave in certain ways and discouraged from certain behaviors. For example, the traits of being assertive and confident are extremely positive traits in men, but if women express too much of it will be deemed the "bitch". That's a huge double standard and one that will make sure women aren't on a level playing field in areas such as business and politics. It shows, since most politicians still tend to be men as well as most high ranking business officials.


Well yeah,if you both don't fit the standards and most people aren't attracted to you then you are not attractive and shouldn't consider yourself as such.

You can be confident and powerful without coming across as a bitch and really,if you mind being considered a bitch then you're weak and don't deserve that confidence in the first place.


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## Consolidated Potato (Feb 2, 2015)

Living dead said:


> Well yeah,if you both don't fit the standards and most people aren't attracted to you then you are not attractive and shouldn't consider yourself as such.
> 
> You can be confident and powerful without coming across as a bitch and really,if you mind being considered a bitch then you're weak and don't deserve that confidence in the first place.


Wow, what a shallow and vapid viewpoint. Go ahead and try, in fact I challenge you. I pretty much know that won't ever get very far in life because you've already bought into the acceptance of a male dominated world. 

Oh well, that's in my favor then, not yours. :wink:


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

Consolidated Potato said:


> Wow, what a shallow and vapid viewpoint. Go ahead and try. I doubt you'll ever get very far in life.


But that's the way it is.

Where would someone with opposite view get though??


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## Consolidated Potato (Feb 2, 2015)

Living dead said:


> But that's the way it is.
> 
> Where would someone with opposite view get though??


Then I guess the only thing left for you to do is accept your place in life. I mean, I was only trying to explain why you shouldn't judge people for being body-positive.

You get exactly what you put into your views and what you deserve from them. If you think that's the way it is for you, then I'm not going to sit here and waste my time trying to get it through your head.


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## LittleMermaid (Jul 24, 2014)

Living dead said:


> Women's unhappiness with what they look like is no one's fault but their genetics.


I have agreed with a lot of your statements so far but this is one is just bizarre. Also, I had to take the apostrophe out of genetics - it bothered me as much as I imagine ugly folk hanging a clique of image obsessed attractive people might annoy them. 



Living dead said:


> Btw body positivity,self love thing is bs,disgusting bs.You don't just get to love yourself by default,if it was meant to be that easy then it would be.


If what you are talking about here is loud people who are basically attention whores then yes, I agree.

If you mean what you have literally written here - that people shouldn't love themselves unless they've put some effort into looking attractive then I could not disagree with you more. Self love is not far behind food and shelter in terms of importance in my opinion. Without it you live your life on your knees, prey to people who promise to give you what you can't/won't give yourself.


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## johnnyyukon (Nov 8, 2013)

conscius said:


> Do people like Beyonce or Christina Aguilera or Rihanna (who I like very much) who have made some racy music videos, or Jennifer Lopez and Kim Kardashian who are well known for a certain body part, have any responsibilities, or are they simply playing the game? Don't hate the player, hate the game, some would say, and though it's true there are many men behind this sexualization of women, I think there are women there as well these days. Oh and that one music video of Miley Cyrus looked like porn.


They're playin' the game and laughing all the way to the bank. 

Miley is a ho. Her father may be in danger of an achy breaky heart attack.


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

LittleMermaid said:


> I have agreed with a lot of your statements so far but this is one is just bizarre. Also, I had to take the apostrophe out of genetics - it bothered me as much as I imagine ugly folk hanging a clique of image obsessed attractive people might annoy them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They can be as annoyed as they want,but that doesn't change the facts.

It's not just about looks,but yeah,if you wanna feel attractive then you need to be attractive and the same principle applies to everything.You can't just say fuck standards,if you really meant it you wouldn't have the need to say it.


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## LittleMermaid (Jul 24, 2014)

Living dead said:


> They can be as annoyed as they want,but that doesn't change the facts.


I'm pretty sure you missed my point here.



Living dead said:


> It's not just about looks,but yeah,if you wanna feel attractive then you need to be attractive and the same principle applies to everything.You can't just say fuck standards,if you really meant it you wouldn't have the need to say it.


Really struggling to make sense of this.


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

LittleMermaid said:


> I'm pretty sure you missed my point here.
> 
> 
> Really struggling to make sense of this.


Well I don't get your point.

You can't just say "I'm hot even though no one agrees I am",it defeats the purpose of being hot


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## mushr00m (May 23, 2011)

Violated, embarrassed and generalised not just by the women who are sending a message out that most women desire to be appreciated the way they present themselves but the men who assume they think they know that's how women want to be treated. But the women on billboards etc can do what they want with their bodies right, yeah but the people who put them up there have an agenda. It's quite sick, personally speaking that they sell the image of our female bodies for $$$ and there's nothing we can do about it, nothing we have a say in about what we have to look at every single day unless we walk around town with a blindfold on, advertisers agenda's cannot be escaped. This should probably be accepted that we have little freedom here before something can be done about it, that we are in fact powerless and that the advertisers are well secured. How to target advertisers is the next thing seeing that's where we are fed most of this sexually distorted information. Oh and of course, porn, how do we get rid of that, lol! Like you can't have your cake and eat it regarding anti-porn and pro-porn supporters.


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## Kavik (Apr 3, 2014)

Living dead said:


> Women's unhappiness with what they look like is no one's fault but their genetic's and lazy personality in some cases."Media" does nothing and it's not anybody else's fault,it's fault of individuals who can neither accept reality about what they look like or make themselves fit positively into it.
> 
> Btw body positivity,self love thing is bs,disgusting bs.You don't just get to love yourself by default,if it was meant to be that easy then it would be.


You don't seem to understand the interchangeable relation and dialogue media and society has. Media does not do nothing. It's an interactive and reactive medium through which people share their ideas and images. It has an impact on how people view the world and themselves. The media reacts to people and events. That's why in the news "if it bleeds it leads" and why you'll see a trend of terrorist movies shortly after a terror attack or a rash of war movies based in say, Afghanistan. 

Comedies that deal with current political issues that some people disagree with to the point an episode is taken down. Or if an episode is made where a tsunami sweeps through a city and then an actual tsunami hits an area where it's about to be aired. The episode is canceled because it will be considered insensitive and there’s a good chance the network will get sued.

Genetics and laziness may play a part in how someone sees them self but you can't deny seeing an unrealistic image or conflicting images of what is supposed to be desirable effects a person. You can't say it's their problem for being effected by what they're brought up seeing in media because emotions aren't something you can will away, they only change in reaction to new information. Media is meant to manipulate emotions, that's how it sells stories and products. 

How do you think makeup, creams, and botox advertisements work? They bank on women feeling insecure about their bodies and feed off the anxieties media has created. It's the same thing with men and hair loss treatments or viagra commercials.


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## Children Of The Bad Revolution (Oct 8, 2013)

johnnyyukon said:


> They're playin' the game and laughing all the way to the bank.
> 
> Miley is a ho. Her father may be in danger of an achy breaky heart attack.


Why is she a ho?


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

> Genetics and laziness may play a part in how someone sees them self but you can't deny seeing an unrealistic image or conflicting images of what is supposed to be desirable effects a person. You can't say it's their problem for being effected by what they're brought up seeing in media because emotions aren't something you can will away, they only change in reaction to new information


Desirable is what's desired



> It's the same thing with men and hair loss treatments or viagra commercials.


And what's wrong with that?


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## mikan (May 25, 2014)

Clyme said:


> So, I really would like to know what it feels like first-hand when you, as a female, see the way that females are sexualized by mainstream media. I personally find it abhorrent and disgusting, but I can only say that from the perspective of seeing it and not fully experiencing it first-hand. Mainstream media pushes these really high-standard unrealistic body images, they objectify women, there's a lot of slighting that goes on towards women, double-standards that occur, and so forth. If you could, I really would like to know what your experiences are with this, and how it makes you feel.
> 
> When I talk about the sexualization that occurs too, I'm not just talking about the first-hand effects either. Many males adopt and reflect these ideas and values through their behavior and speech. When a female has a genuine emotional concern, it's chalked up to "well, looks like we have too much estrogen in the room", or when girls decide to wear certain things or when they behave in a certain way, they're criticized by males through a lens of what pleases them or not. I'm not making blanket-statements of course where I'm saying that all males are like this, but it's very prevalent. So, please, what are your experiences and how has this affected you personally?


I don't feel sexualized because I am not those models on TV.
I act the way I please, better slapped with the truth than kissed with a lie :tongue:


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## johnnyyukon (Nov 8, 2013)

isingthebodyelectric said:


> Why is she a ho?


Really??


























































Ugh. Gross.


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## southernsunflower (Nov 28, 2014)

Yuck (and more often than not dissatisfied, and probably more than not critical of my appearance).

Also creates a dissociation (in my case) with my physical appearance and body. Getting better though 

Also makes me very aware of:
- how young you can be sexualized (and told that it's your fault) if your body evolves "faster than it should" by adult (+25 y.o.) males - I think the two are tied together -;
- how everything you do as a woman to your appearance is expected to be "for the pleasure of others";
- how if I was spontaneously me I'd probably be more sultry more often, but as of now I'll always want to tone it down because I dislike being treated 'like a thing';
- the fact that getting fit equates with being 'thingified' in my head and from my experience (and more than there should be always seem to think it is to get, catch and trap some elusive man) whereas being bigger and even just big means that by definition I get to remind the world that my body is mine and I am not here 'to please' per say... (I in no way imply that big ladies have this mindset when they are big, but in my case it's always been my very passive aggressive form of rebellious middle finger in the air at the world for thinking my body or looks are around to satisfy them);
- how often people talk about your looks or bring it back to that... I mean, yeah I like the fact that I am "attractive" to those that matter to me, but people really often talk about looks... I think it's weird. But it has made me very into complimenting people on all sort of weird things that don't have to do with how they look;
- ironically, makes it difficult to own your sexuality for some because there is always a tug between owning it and worrying about sending the wrong message (and there is a point where my mind wonders if, unless I wear a huge loose garbage bag - or extreme tomboy gear - I am not systematically sending the wrong message).

Side note: I think it doesn't help that I find that along with highly sexualized and objectified images of women in the media, I feel this planet has created a very self-entitled mindset. And the combination of some people thinking that you are both 'a thing' and that they can take anything they want is... dangerous.

Also, ironically, I really like chicks that own it. Because in my head, I'm much dirtier than I show IRL. So they show how I am, and I appreciate them for it (I'm thinking of a lot of female rappers, dancehall singers, Miley C., etc. for example). I admire that they're just apologetically themselves. Because I just really like to format what I put out to get what I want (which tends to be a sort of respect - in the sense of take-me-seriously - meets personal-space and I find being in any way suggestive leads to invasions...) Of course I hide all this the same way I hide my inner goofball so... -_-

Of course, my opinion based on my own experiences and way of looking at things.


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## Kavik (Apr 3, 2014)

Living dead said:


> Desirable is what's desired
> 
> And what's wrong with that?


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

I'm making my own point


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## Kavik (Apr 3, 2014)

Living dead said:


> I'm making my own point


In a completely different context.


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

Kavik said:


> In a completely different context.


How is it different?


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## Clyme (Jul 17, 2014)

Living dead said:


> Why wouldn't it be acceptable,it is a product,product of some good luck and lots of money and hard work,like everything else.
> 
> I still don't see it at all as sexuality being exploited,women just take advantage of the fact that what they already have is valued by society.There is give and take,there always is,everyone's everything gets "exploited" all the time.


So, if you came to discover that the way females are objectified is detrimental to their well-being (through some sort of scientific study), would you change your position, or would you still hold that the objectification of females is acceptable even at their own expense?


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

Clyme said:


> So, if you came to discover that the way females are objectified is detrimental to their well-being (through some sort of scientific study), would you change your position, or would you still hold that the objectification of females is acceptable even at their own expense?


There's no such study imo,it can't be proven because everyone reacts differently.But I wouldn't change my opinion even if some "scientists" gave me "evidence" ,that wouldn't change people's feelings.And I'm obviously a female too and the kind that's quite influenced by media but IT'S MY CHOICE,no one is forcing me to care about something I don't wanna care about but I care because I personally wanna be the kind of person who is as close to the ideal as possible.


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## Clyme (Jul 17, 2014)

Living dead said:


> There's no such study imo,it can't be proven because everyone reacts differently.But I wouldn't change my opinion even if some "scientists" gave me "evidence" ,that wouldn't change people's feelings.And I'm obviously a female too and the kind that's quite influenced by media but IT'S MY CHOICE,no one is forcing me to care about something I don't wanna care about but I care because I personally wanna be the kind of person who is as close to the ideal as possible.


I really would encourage you to read through the following:
http://www.apa.org/pi/women/programs/girls/report-full.pdf

It's a pretty comprehensive. I'm very pleased to hear that you don't feel affected by any such things. I think that's tremendously positive. It's not that way for everyone though and the way which females are objectified and sexualized can have pretty detrimental effects on their well-being and cognition. So, again, I encourage you to read through that report and let me know what you think.


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## Kavik (Apr 3, 2014)

Living dead said:


> There's no such study imo,it can't be proven because everyone reacts differently.But I wouldn't change my opinion even if some "scientists" gave me "evidence" ,that wouldn't change people's feelings.And I'm obviously a female too and the kind that's quite influenced by media but IT'S MY CHOICE,no one is forcing me to care about something I don't wanna care about but I care because I personally wanna be the kind of person who is as close to the ideal as possible.


Wrong. There are many. Here's one of them. 


http://people.ucsc.edu/~sgrabe/Shel...Grabe & Ward, Hyde, Media Meta (PB, 2008).pdf

*Hypothesis: *
"Research suggests that exposure to mass media depicting the thin-ideal body may be linked to body image disturbance in women. This meta-analysis examined experimental and correlational studies testing the links between media exposure to women’s body dissatisfaction, internalization of the thin ideal, and eating behaviors and beliefs with a sample of 77 studies that yielded 141 effect sizes. The mean effect sizes were small to moderate (ds &#56319;&#56320; –.28, –.39, and –.30, respectively). Effects for some outcome variables were moderated by publication year and study design. The findings support the notion that exposure to media images depicting the thin-ideal body is related to body image concerns for women.

Keywords: body image, media, advertising, human females, meta-analysis"


*Conclusion:*
"Taken together, the findings from these analyses suggest that media exposure is linked to women’s generalized dissatisfaction with their bodies, increased investment in appearance, and in- creased endorsement of disordered eating behaviors. These effects appear robust: They are present across multiple outcomes and are demonstrated in both the experimental and correlational literatures. Thus we can see that media exposure appears to be related to women’s body image negatively regardless of assessment tech- nique, individual difference variables, media type, age, or other idiosyncratic study characteristics. Moreover, although 43% of the effect sizes in our analyses were from correlational studies, thereby precluding causal inferences, 57% were from experimental de- signs. Indeed, because no single methodological approach can stand alone in answering these key questions, we believe that converging results from studies using multiple methodologies en- hance confidence in the validity of the conclusions drawn. How- ever, what remains necessary is the use of longitudinal, prospec- tive designs; longitudinal studies are positioned to provide additional evidence regarding the role of media in disturbances related to body image."


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

Gonna read it later,it's a LOT.I do get what you mean btw,but I personally feel like I am able to deal with pretty much anything and that's what's most important and when it comes to people that can't deal it's pretty much no one's fault really,things like media and standards work as a sort of a filter.Harsh but true.


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

That's not valid for me because a guy too might choose to fuck fat girl's thinner friend and it would end the same way.Media has nothing to do with it.


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## Clyme (Jul 17, 2014)

Living dead said:


> Gonna read it later,it's a LOT.I do get what you mean btw,but I personally feel like I am able to deal with pretty much anything and that's what's most important and when it comes to people that can't deal it's pretty much no one's fault really,things like media and standards work as a sort of a filter.Harsh but true.


When you do read it, please let me know what your thoughts are. Again, I'm very interested in knowing what you think.


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## perpetuallyreticent (Sep 24, 2014)

Living dead said:


> Women's unhappiness with what they look like is no one's fault but their genetic's and lazy personality in some cases."Media" does nothing and it's not anybody else's fault,it's fault of individuals who can neither accept reality about what they look like or make themselves fit positively into it.
> 
> Btw body positivity,self love thing is bs,disgusting bs.You don't just get to love yourself by default,if it was meant to be that easy then it would be.


I disagree. Yeah, of course a person's happiness with their looks is pretty much solely their responsibility, but the ability to love yourself for how you look does not just depend on you. We're all constantly subjected to culture expectations by either gender, class or race and it all affects us differently. You're seriously telling me that media and marketing has nothing to do with low self esteem in girls and boys? Boys see all these muscle toned models and strive to look like that themselves, and when they can't live up to that image for whatever reason, they feel inferior. Oh yeah, TOTALLY 100% on them. The low self esteem just came out of thin air. 

And girls dealing with the desire to be skinny (and overly so) or have large breasts, have cute feminine facial features, pretty hair and the list goes on. Yeah, marketing has absolutely nothing to do with this- you're right.  

Deny it all you want, but media and today's culture has A LOT to do with our self esteem and how we see ourselves. 

And what does body positivity and self love have to do with 'loving yourself by default'? Elaborate please.

(Also using the term 'lazy personality' to describe a person who essentially has low self esteem or even worse, is seriously problematic and very narrow minded. I'm not insulting you by saying that either, but rather telling you how you're coming off with that really.. weird comment.)


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

So before media everyone thought they were beautiful? :laughing:

You can't love yourself by default,your body included


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## Kavik (Apr 3, 2014)

@Living dead

Beauty standards predate media but that doesn't mean media hasn't effected it.

How Beauty Standards Have Changed Throughout History - All Day

http://www.ukhairdressers.com/history of beauty.asp


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## inthesnowman (Jun 18, 2014)

Living dead said:


> So before media everyone thought they were beautiful? :laughing:
> 
> You can't love yourself by default,your body included


I love myself by default. I never had any sort of struggle with my image or confidence. There's no reason to. As long as you are being the best person you can be, who gives a fuck?


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## perpetuallyreticent (Sep 24, 2014)

Living dead said:


> So before media everyone thought they were beautiful? :laughing:
> 
> You can't love yourself by default,your body included


Did I say that? Let's not put words in my mouth. I said media has a great deal to do with it, not that it was what's primarily responsible or the reason for why some people have problems with self esteem.


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## asperger (Dec 22, 2014)

You blame media, you blame men, society, whomever. Except for yourself. But the truth is, you and only you is here to blame. Let me explain:

You create your set of values. 
You decide what is important to you.
You decide what do you want in life.


Now... my parents want me to eat more.
My buddies want me to drink more.
My girlfriend wants me to earn more.
Media want me to exercise more.
Politicians want me to work more.
Salespeople want me to spend more.

AND I DON'T GIVE A FUCK... I do what I want. It is this fucking simple. Sad thing is, many people don't do it my way. They create stupid set of values for themselves, they decide their look is fucking important, the decide they want to be unicorns...









But it is THEIR DECISION. They have the same free will I have... 

PS: I find it very interesting that women magazines are written by women, for women. And are bought by (some) women to willingly torture themselves. If i decide to not buy that shit, I will NOT. I am the one making decisions, I am the one ruling my world. Yours is ruled by media?


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## Clyme (Jul 17, 2014)

asperger said:


> You blame media, you blame men, society, whomever. Except for yourself. But the truth is, you and only you is here to blame. Let me explain:
> 
> You create your set of values.
> You decide what is important to you.
> ...


I created this thread so that females who are the primary objects of such advertising can share their experiences of that advertising. I did not create this thread for males as I'm interested directly in the experience of females only who, as I said are the primary objects of such advertising, but I certainly didn't make this thread for anyone to come in a berate people or blame people.

I would debate with you over a great deal of things, from the way that we develop different traits and values due to our childhoods, to the way that social institutions affect us whether we recognize them or not (you likely won't get hired as a goth doctor and you'll earn much less if you're less attractive as a female), but this isn't a debate thread. Had it been, it would've been in the debate board. It is not though. It is in the psychology board for the reasons I've already mentioned. Please don't come in here and write someone's negative experiences off as them blaming someone else.

If you have a problem with what I've said, you're more than welcome to take it up with me over private messages, but I don't want any sort of berating or criticism like that in this thread. This is not to be a hostile thread, and if you furthermore have criticism of me, again, private message me instead and don't take up space in this thread. Thank you.


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## asperger (Dec 22, 2014)

Well, sorry, but females only, whites only, ubermensch only - isn't it history?

You do not want to discuss with me, fair enough. Don't do it.

But I need to say this: Purpose of my post is to explain, not to blame or criticize. And definitely not to berate (where do you see that?). So, if you read it differently, it is your interpretation and not my intention. You are too general so I do not know what part of my post was misunderstood. If you should be more specific, I could reword it.


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## Clyme (Jul 17, 2014)

asperger said:


> Well, sorry, but females only, whites only, ubermensch only - isn't it history?
> 
> You do not want to discuss with me, fair enough. Don't do it.
> 
> But I need to say this: Purpose of my post is to explain, not to blame or criticize. And definitely not to berate (where do you see that?). So, if you read it differently, it is your interpretation and not my intention. You are too general so I do not know what part of my post was misunderstood. If you should be more specific, I could reword it.


This is not a female supremacy thread. It is an inquiry into female-unique experiences.

Not in this thread, no, as your post falls outside of the scope of this thread's intentions. The intention of this thread is to collect the first-hand experiences of females on a particular topic. It is not to debate over the causes of those experiences, to debate feminism, or anything of that nature. It is purely to collect and explore the first-hand experiences of females on a particular topic.

Essentially, your opening line is blaming and critical, at least to my interpretation. Nonetheless, again, the point of this thread is not to say "hey, females, you're at fault for social institutions and your own objectification". The point of this thread is to understand the effects that female objectifcation, sexualization, and their resulting social institutions have on females. It is to discuss the various ways that different people feel and respond to these environments. There are plenty of debate-threads regarding these issues and about whose fault it is, if it's "really" a thing, and so forth, but this is not one of them. This is a thread for sharing and exploring experiences. I'd ask that you please respect that and encourage you to debate in threads meant for debating.


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## asperger (Dec 22, 2014)

Sure, collect whatever you want. 
I just miss the difference between debate and discussion and why other people can debate/discuss/whatever about causes 
http://personalitycafe.com/general-...tream-media-females-only-10.html#post14678474
but I can't  And why my post is not one of the


Clyme said:


> various ways that different people feel and respond to these environments.


But whatever makes you happy.


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## Clyme (Jul 17, 2014)

@asperger

If you would like, you're more than welcome to post a similar thread in the debate board and I will happily join you there.


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

I am back and forth. 

I honestly do not mind women embracing and sexualizing themselves. Or media celebrating women's beauty and sexuality. I can see how it turns ugly too tho. 

You know I might just point out that I personally prefer the over sexualization and sexual liberty of women, then women being expected to wear neck/ankle length clothing. I think its more offensive to be told we can not expose ourselves then society over expose us.


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## electricky (Feb 18, 2011)

I prefer to own my sexuality, not the media.

But yeah, I'm not famous enough for that stuff yet.


As for sexualization of other women in media, it's just so overdone that it gets annoying and ridiculous. It's not so much offensive to me as it is tired and boring.


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## perpetuallyreticent (Sep 24, 2014)

ElectricSparkle said:


> I prefer to own my sexuality, not the media.
> 
> But yeah, I'm not famous enough for that stuff yet.
> 
> ...


Pretty much. At this point I'd feel dumb getting _offended_ but it does make me roll my eyes when I see commercials for example with women in bikinis and the commercial has absolutely nothing to do with women. Like the most recent Superbowl commercial. The fuck was that? 

I get it. Today's culture is all about sexuality and women especially are sexualized in a very broad light, but jeez. It just goes to show how engulfed in this culture we all are. A commercial about food? Half naked woman. A clothes commercial? Dude has no shirt on and happens to be posing on a bed.

Mkay...


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