# INFJ females having issues relating to other females



## Sheisstellar (Dec 17, 2011)

Hi, I'm new.

I'm a very preceptive/intuitive INFJ but I have always found men much easier to understand. Women confuse and frustrate me to the point where I have trouble maintaining friendships with them. I'm always the odd one out in a group of girls or I at least feel this way. Do any other INFJs have this issue? Why does this happen? No matter how nice a female is I always see the bad side of them and can't get passed it.


----------



## Weird (Dec 16, 2011)

Well, even as a male INFJ I have issues making friends or maintaining friends. They have to "click" with me, or I don't really feel comfortable.


----------



## Aedesia (Nov 17, 2011)

I agree with you, though I'm INTJ. Growing up, all my friends were male. If I had female friends, they were the girlfriends of my male friends. It's mostly because I was never interested in the same things they were. I consider myself independent, I didn't mind getting sweaty, being smart, if I have a problem I'd say it, and I didn't mind leading. Most of the girls I grew up with were always looking to date, didn't lift a finger in gym, pretended to be dumb, back stabbed, and never took the lead. 

I'm not sure if you're experience was close to mine, but I think it's a cultural thing. A lot of these girls parents were stay at home mothers that were part of some fancy neighborhood or book club. Where I went to school, for the most part, you didn't see mothers making all the money, it was almost always the fathers. Yet, I was raised in a family where both my parents worked and they had a very strong work ethic. They never bothered me to do homework or any such thing because they knew I would just do it for my sake. I grew up with a very different mind set to my female peers. 

Now that I'm in college, I pretty much only have female friends. All my male friends just want to sleep with me and I've met a good group of girls that have grown out of the stereotypical female mind set. They still have their moments where I just have to suck it up and be a good friend.


----------



## Ashlyn (Dec 21, 2011)

i always found myself lost when it came to having female friends. they all just seemed to be unintelligent and got on my nerves. i was and still am better friends with men. they are so much easier to read.


----------



## Ashlyn (Dec 21, 2011)

IVE ALWAYS HAD THIS PROBLEM. i just cant get other females. same with always being the odd one. and as for seeing the bad side, SAME. and thats the part that bothers me most. i dont do it to men as much, but in women i can just see the bad more than the good. i just cant get passed it once i catch on to it. i have no answers as to why we are cursed with these things, but i thought you would like to know that someone else is in the same boat.


----------



## quadrivium (Nov 6, 2011)

This is the story of my life.


----------



## Miss Keks (Nov 7, 2010)

I don't think it has something to do with being INFJ ... I know several girls that are not INFJ who feel the same way.

But for me it has something to do with the people whether I can connect or not, and I think it's about 50:50 boys and girls... There are types of males I can connect pretty easy and I can read them without problems and connect well, but I'd say still most of males are a single mistery to me, like I cannot look in their minds. Whereas, the same goes with females, there are types that connect well to me, but with most of them I don't, still I wouldn't call it mystery.

If I'd be asked, I would nevertheless tend to say I can connect easier with females in general. Though I might say it's easier to establish a friendship with a male.

PS: Oh, and I grew up with my mother earning all money and my father staying at home. I don't think is has anything to do with that, though my sister is much more the male-friends-only type ... but she's definitely not INFJ, I think she's ISTP.


----------



## DavidPopulus (Nov 25, 2011)

I have the same problem but as a man. I can talk to guys but I prefer talking to ladies, which can be a problem as women always think I'm trying it on or I'm gay which is worse.

I think that infj girls get on together rather well. As the INFJ ladies are a tad on the rare side it is normal to find you have little in common with others of the same gender. I only tend to get on with ENTP blokes or other INFj males in parallel to your problem so maybe a look in that direction may be fruitful.


----------



## Donovan (Nov 3, 2009)

my girlfriend (INFJ) has talked about this as well...

from a male's point of view, i really don't have a preference one way of the other--we're either worth each other's time or we're not.


----------



## Up and Away (Mar 5, 2011)

There is also the possibility that you aren't INFJ.


----------



## SassyPJs24 (Jan 27, 2010)

I have trouble maintaining friendships with girls long term, or with anyone long term... but I love females and have always gotten along better with them than men. This might have more to do with childhood and life experiences than type. I grew up very close to my mom and my older sister, who is my best friend. I also have trouble getting close to guys as friends (unless they're gay) because I don't trust men very much. I think being rare and unable to relate to people is a constant problem for all INFJ's, but friendships are about finding similarity and shared experiences with someone, which is easy to do if you meet people while doing something you're passionate about.


----------



## Falhalterra (Apr 24, 2011)

For me, I preferably like to be friends with guys or around them. They just seem less dramatic and gossipy, and definitely more thrill-seeking. I've been known to understand men very well. Even though I have quite a few girl friends, I've always had issues with them at times. Sometimes I don't want to understand why so many girls out there are so selfish and manipulative, and I know some men are too, but it completely baffles me when a women does it. Maybe it's an evolutionary thing, idk.


----------



## unico (Feb 3, 2011)

I can relate to males and females about equally. I've never found it difficult to find female friends with similar interests and lifestyles to me. I think there's about the same amount of males and females I can and cannot relate to.


----------



## Mendi the ISFJ (Jul 28, 2011)

this sounds like my (INFJ) sister. I think she just believes herself superior to other women and that by relating to men on that level she feels less insecure about feeling different. Its much too broad a statment to make in my opinion. Not all women are the same, not all (MBTI) types of women are even the same.


----------



## LaLuciole (Dec 12, 2011)

From an INFJ female perspective I can get along with other girls but I feel like they are always sizing me up or judging me. I don't necessarily feel "different" but I never hold friendships with many girls for very long...only a select few. In college I remember joining clubs with other girls but eventually I felt like they all grew closer and I just drifted out. It has always been that way.


----------



## EmeraldxFairy (Apr 10, 2012)

I think there is a difference in the way guys and girls make or form friendships, and it doesn't really have anything to do with personality types. I think the circumstances in which these friendships are born is the biggest reason why girls (not just INFJ's) can't bond as close as guys can.

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, because I might be one sided on this, but from my experiences it seems that men are more into things and have particular interests or passions about something. And they will pursue those interests and eventually find great friends through that. If they like, say, hockey(or basketball, or soccer, etc.), they'll form a little hockey team(just for fun) to meet every week and practice with friends. If they like music, they'll form some kind of band and practice at each other's garages. If they like comics, they'll hang out at comic book stores and play board games or card games, and basically do other comic book related things. They might go out with friends to dinner or movies, or concerts, but that won't be the only way they could find a reason to hang out together. 

What do women do? I usually see them just go shopping together, meet up for lunch to catch up on the latest news or gossip, dress up, and go to the movies, etc. as their main way of hanging out. You can basically do all that with a stranger though, and it won't make any difference. Even if they like music, or sports, or art, it's still the same if there is no passion about it. And alot of times when it comes to making friends, it will be to go shopping together as their common interest. So once you stop hanging out because you're busy, suddenly they're not your friends anymore and there's a falling out. It doesn't happen as easily if you both shared a common interest or passion for something else, whether it be the arts, music, books, sports, etc.

I'm not trying to be biased, but it's been true in almost all of the situations I've seen.


----------



## Impact Calculus (Mar 29, 2012)

I think you should get acquainted with the enneagram. That's where you start to delve into compatibility, friendships, relationships, etc. Your MBTI type hardly has any consistency regarding that.


----------



## Sunbeam (Feb 1, 2012)

When I was in high school, I went through a phase where I thought that most girls watched The OC and loved cliche quotes like "live laugh love." I hated it. But then I realized that not every girl was like that. Lol. As you grow up, you usually find more girls who aren't the stereotype of a girly girl in this society.


----------



## TrailMix (Apr 27, 2011)

I've never had a problem relating to anybody in a social sense. However, I tend to just not particularly like the company of many kinds of girls. I hate conformity and I hate it when people are fake, so I try to avoid that. I'm pretty good at figuring people out even though Im an INTP, and i tend to avoid people who I feel dont have good motives. Most of my friends and acquaintances are male, but thats just because of my interests (i love sports, videogames, and im an engineering major). However, my closest friendships are with females with the exception of my boyfriend. 

Its an INxx thing for girls much of the time. E's can typically make it work, but I's have a bit more trouble. Just an observation, I could be wrong, but just from my experience, INxx girls have more issues relating to people in general if they dont put out a lot of effort.

I for one dont really understand people and they dont understand me all that well either, but you come to a point where you realize you arent going to "get" everyone. Nobody is simple, and much of the time, people arent going to relate to you. It takes a long time and a lot of effort on both sides to get to that level of friendship where you can truly understand someone. It doesnt just happen.


----------



## Hekate (Nov 20, 2011)

I have a few female friends, but I don't do a lot of the "girly" activities with them. I prefer some of the more intellectual pursuits such as debating and writing; and some guy-oriented activities like drinking and camping. Of the girlfriends that I do have, they are compartmentalized according to what we enjoy doing together: some I only write with, only debate with, only go clubbing with, etc. I have some friends who went to grad school or internships with me, and they are more versatile, but also more introspective and thought-based types.

As a child I had a mix of friends, male and female, but as I entered junior high & high school, it took a swing towards the male contingency. All my "girl" friends were the romantic partners of my guy friends. I had few female friends of my own that I could rely on. College, seemed to even out. I also struggled to find my social-footing in college since I wasn't into the frat scene. I spent hours in the library & stacks.

I kind of like it this way. It works for me; I'm allowed to be blunt and abrasive with men, whereas I might have to hand a female a packet of tissues each time I open my mouth.


----------



## dulcinea (Aug 22, 2011)

I usually befriend girls that have similar interests to me "geek girls" haha. I also like girls who are upfront and honest. I find too many females are a bit catty and hypocritical. They'll act like their doing you a favor by being "nice" to your face, while their seething on the inside.


----------



## monster_moon (Dec 25, 2013)

I'm an INFP but also have the same issues with girls. Except it's not because I find them unintelligent or anything, most of the time I just feel like they're always being competitive, I think. Or maybe it's because I'm pretty much a lesbian and get super nervous around them...:blushed:


----------



## killerB (Jan 14, 2010)

I always had males friends. I still do! LOL I Thought it was because I was a lesbian, but it's because I am an INFJ apparently.


----------



## randomshoes (Dec 11, 2013)

I'm more than a little concerned with the level of gender stereotyping going on in this thread. Women are not all shallow backstabbing conformists and men are not all simple honest folk. Look around you. There's an incredible amount of women just on this thread saying they don't relate to people like that. There are shallow people of both genders, and if you're not shallow yourself you probably won't like them. 

Why, if you are not delicate, emotional, or shallow, do not spend all your time shopping, and like to think about ideas, do you assume that you must be the exception and that most other women are like this? Why not assume most women are like you, aka human beings with different preferences and intellectual interests?


----------



## WinterFox (Sep 19, 2013)

Gosh I understand how you feel, I am the same way too.

I have difficulty relating to other females too. I am pretty geeky for an INFJ.
Most females love to go shopping, makeup, gossips etc, but I am not interested in any of these
My hobbies are reading, art, music, and all those geeky things. v_v 
Most females love to talk about boys, but I prefer to talk about intellectual topics, I don't really enjoy talking about boys much.
My female friends are always talking about boys whereas I always want to discuss some intellectual topics with them, where can I find a good female friend who is as intellectual as myself? v_v 
I also don't go shopping much unless I have something to buy. 
I have worked in female-dominated environments before and gosh it's such a nightmare, the women there were all gossiping about each other. Whenever one woman left the office, another woman will gossip about her behind her back. 
Anyway, I would like to befriend an INTP female, I think INFJ females and INTP females would make good friends with each other. 
Where do INTP females usually hang out in real life? v_v


----------



## Annesyl (Dec 20, 2013)

I understand the issue to some extent.
Does it happen to you to say "God Bless Internet" when you think about shopping? 
Besides, nothing more rewarding than working in almost exclusive male-dominant environment...

Though a thought crosses my mind... I have never managed to get any male friend. 
How do you do that? A few I thought would be "friends" always ended up asking me to go out with... kinda annoying.


----------



## Carmine Ermine (Mar 11, 2012)

It's interesting as the opposite personality to INFJ it's more like I can see the bad side of most men (unless they already think life is easy and they can easily get what they need) but I tend to think women are all too beautiful/cute to do any wrong. The only bad side of women I've seen is that some women seem to be way too judgmental before I can even show anything about myself, but that's their problem, simply because there are some women who are more forgiving and less judgmental, and they will win


----------



## Eudaimonia (Sep 24, 2013)

It seems that I get along with men and women equally.


----------



## Lemurrific (Dec 25, 2013)

I'm a INFJ male and tend to get along with women _best_. 
Probably unsurprisingly, I have no real idea why this is. 

Off the top of my head, perhaps it's because they're quicker to talk deeply emotionally (which is one thing I find most interesting) and also draws my own feelings out a bit, which is what I probably need.


----------



## Haydn (Sep 20, 2012)

I get along with females much better than I get along with males. I am a bit of a feminist and just generally prefer dealing with women. I do not really understand or even like most males.


----------



## spiderfrommars (Feb 22, 2012)

Sheisstellar said:


> No matter how nice a female is I always see the bad side of them and can't get passed it.


There's a word for that: misogyny.


----------



## randomshoes (Dec 11, 2013)

Haydn said:


> I get along with females much better than I get along with males. I am a bit of a feminist and just generally prefer dealing with women. I do not really understand or even like most males.


That's not what feminist means. Feminists do not "prefer dealing with women." Feminists believe woman should have equal rights and status as men. Period. Feminism does not mean disliking men. Disliking someone based on their gender is still sexism.


----------



## Annesyl (Dec 20, 2013)

Scruzz said:


> It seems that I get along with men and women equally.


When you know how people work (because a man does not work in the same way a woman does), and apply that to your communication, it is quite easy to get along with anybody.
You just need to know what subject you can rise with whom...


----------



## Haydn (Sep 20, 2012)

randomshoes said:


> That's not what feminist means. Feminists do not "prefer dealing with women." Feminists believe woman should have equal rights and status as men. Period. Feminism does not mean disliking men. Disliking someone based on their gender is still sexism.



I do know what feminism means and I more or less share your perspective on it. I mentioned being a bit of a feminist to imply something else which I think you might have missed. 

Also, I do not dislike all males just most that I have come across but not because I am a feminist.

I honestly just prefer the 'typical' female characteristics/personality and just feel better around women overall.


----------



## Arclight (Feb 10, 2010)

I have known a few female INFJs in my time .. I have had romantic relations with a few as well. 
It is true in general that they seemed to prefer the company of males.. 

I have seen studies that suggest INFJs are neither left brain or right brain dominant but usually somewhere around the middle. 
This makes sense as I have also noticed that INFJ males tend to shy away from machismo and jock type behavior. 

One can ascertain that someone dominant in either right brain or left might not appeal to the INFJ brain. Thus girly girls and macho men are not their thing whatever the gender of the INFJ. 

I myself do not like girly girls.. But rather prefer my female companions to be intelligent, understated, calm, reserved, quiet and sensual. 
No offense meant.. But many females are just too flaky and in people's faces.. And for some reason too many females have a thing for drama..

I know I am not female.. But I dig this thread topic and could not resist adding my 2 cents.


----------



## Chesire Tower (Jan 19, 2013)

Arclight said:


> I have known a few female INFJs in my time .. I have had romantic relations with a few as well.
> It is true in general that they seemed to prefer the company of males..
> 
> I have seen studies that suggest INFJs are neither left brain or right brain dominant but usually somewhere around the middle.
> ...


I can totally relate to this. I've always viewed myself as androgynous and a lot of guys tell me that I talk like one - whatever that means. When I took a career test; my scores were always more compatible with males in those professions over the females. On psychological gender identification test in the Personality Resources forum; I got 50/50 on the traditional male vs. female ratio.

My friends used to mostly be guys but in recent years, I have been able to form compatible friendships with women as well.

I am approximately 60% right brained and 40% left.


----------



## StElmosDream (May 26, 2012)

As an INFJ HSP male (too many labels I could incorporate at will honestly), as society seems to be slowly moving more towards mental-emotional-inner life maturity balance for both genders where I used to relate to males on the mental-different but similar level, as I age now I find this is less the case now seeking deeper emotional and mental bonds with female friends most realising that over time through self acceptance I seem to be preparing to progress into stereotypically women dominated career roles.

Feeling that at present self awareness and emotional maturity just seems to be lacking in males my age, unless they have been in long term relationships or solid careers being encouraged to actually grow up by others or life itself.


----------



## Annesyl (Dec 20, 2013)

Arclight said:


> I have known a few female INFJs in my time .. I have had romantic relations with a few as well.
> It is true in general that they seemed to prefer the company of males..
> 
> I have seen studies that suggest INFJs are neither left brain or right brain dominant but usually somewhere around the middle.
> ...


Totally in. I do have issues with fluffy girly girls and rude macho males.
I do not like to go to extreme points and stay kinda in the middle.
People can be feminine without being soppy glue like puppets and masculine without getting heavy ill-mannered bounders.
I do prefer being in the middle of males but can get along pretty well with women too.. 
All is a question of will to establish a good communication I guess.


----------



## Annesyl (Dec 20, 2013)

StElmosDream said:


> As an INFJ HSP male (too many labels I could incorporate at will honestly), as society seems to be slowly moving more towards mental-emotional-inner life maturity balance for both genders where I used to relate to males on the mental-different but similar level, as I age now I find this is less the case now seeking deeper emotional and mental bonds with female friends most realising that over time through self acceptance I seem to be preparing to progress into stereotypically women dominated career roles.
> 
> Feeling that at present self awareness and emotional maturity just seems to be lacking in males my age, unless they have been in long term relationships or solid careers being encouraged to actually grow up by others or life itself.


It depends on people I think.
I'm currently experiencing a quite meaningful mail exchange with an ENTJ guy.. which is a lot more mentally interesting than some conversations I may have with my ENFP best friend.


----------



## StElmosDream (May 26, 2012)

Annesyl said:


> It depends on people I think.
> I'm currently experiencing a quite meaningful mail exchange with an ENTJ guy.. which is a lot more mentally interesting than some conversations I may have with my ENFP best friend.


Just a thought I had, do you feel (societally speaking) males have enough incentives to invest heavily in non romantic relationships long term compared to females that by assumptions alone may gain emotionally acceptant support, support networks in their own gender or some males and the ability to discuss issues without a context or alcohol (I would not know fully since so many of the bonds I have known focussed on shared education, artificial social groups and previously more misogynistic 'male bonding' I disliked).


----------



## Leni (Feb 14, 2010)

i'm infp but i have the same problem,i suppose it's my low self esteem and feeling inferior next to other girls tbh.With guys i can be a "bro",be sloppy,spontaneous,etc,it's not asked of me to be posh and perfect,somehow girls come across as more judgemental and less laid back.


----------



## Annesyl (Dec 20, 2013)

Leni said:


> i'm infp but i have the same problem,i suppose it's my low self esteem and feeling inferior next to other girls tbh.With guys i can be a "bro",be sloppy,spontaneous,etc,it's not asked of me to be posh and perfect,somehow girls come across as more judgemental and less laid back.


I prefer sharing my space with guys but in any way it's about my low self esteem or feeling inferior to anybody, girls or boys.
It's all about sharing and exchanging, not about external desires you need to embrace, learn to love yourself... you will give so much love to others without fearing yourself.


----------



## Lemxn (Aug 17, 2013)

Sheisstellar said:


> I have always found men much easier to understand. Women confuse and frustrate me to the point where I have trouble maintaining friendships with them. I'm always the odd one out in a group of girls or I at least feel this way. Do any other INFJs have this issue? Why does this happen? No matter how nice a female is I always see the bad side of them and can't get passed it.


You're not the only one.
I always had much better relationship with man, it's simple and it's real. Girls are way to complicated even the conversations. I love deep talks but you can see how different is with girls than with man.
That's another reason why I want boys the day I become a mom:laughing:


----------



## Ironlady (Sep 17, 2012)

Hello !

I'll share with you my experiences with female interactions. I will specify beforehand that my presentation might appear very systemic, and logically-driven, that being explained by the fact that I have a developed Ti which I use to model my social interactions for better understanding. I consider my perception of the INFJ's experience to be that of the Scholar, or Academic oriented towards abstract understanding(Ni) of social issues(Fe). 

I find that I interact in different manners depending on the person's personality. 
Here are some models I will define to explain the workings of this system. 

- The Daughter of the Unconscious : Specifically with Sensor females, I will tend to bypass my dominant intuitive drive for abstraction by allowing an emotional contact with the real to be bridged by the sensibility of sensors. 
With Sensor Feelers, SF, I will tend to adopt a submissive, daughter-like acceptation of their dominant functions to settle the
grounds for the interaction. I will acknowledge their feelings expressedly, using Fe and Se, while I will experimentally form Intuitive models (based on my Ti logic of the interaction) to orient the conversation towards intellectual matters with practical social properties - acknowledgment of social bonds, growth of the other interpersonal relationship. 
I think this approach allows to deconstruct the N/S gap of understanding because it allows it to process unconsciously, as in it's normal inferior cognitive functions, without being expressedly brought upon, and thus confronted directly. 

- The Critical Parent : This model is also relevant to Sensors, especially Thinkers and repressed Feelers (those who may hold a grudge towards intuitive functions). In this settings, I will tend to adopt a Ti-driven "Test the Intellectual Waters" critical experiment, carefully coated with Fe diplomacy, and inspired by my Ni. Usually, I can sense very easily when someone antagonizes my intellectual intuitions, more evidently when the remarks are Sensorly driven (for exemple : "This idea has no real value in the world " ). In response to the real/ideal antagonism of thoughts, I will tend to play on the "Sensor's ground", and provide a practical explanation, experimental demonstration for the validity of my idea's existence in the real. Thinkers will acknowledge the rational process with which I proceed. In the exceptional case, of meeting a repressed Npersona in Sensor-Feeler, the critical judgment I will operate will be based on analyzing the elements of emotional investment given to each interaction, to draw a conclusion - in general, it's power conflict in a family setting (an S-dom in an N family) - that will push the SF to antagonize. I can do this exercice particularly well, since I have an ISFJ mother who happens to have issues with understanding intuition. I think this model is inspired by learning from my dad who happens to be an INTP (my Ti-driven logic is certainly drawn from his teachings). 

- The Twisted Sister : This model of interaction is mostly drawn towards the N-Te female. In the experiences I gathered from socially bonding with N-Tes, I have always found that there is a competitive dichotomy between Ti and Te, however that this feeling of competition is not negatively oriented towards hierarchy (except in extreme cases of narcissistic tendencies, seen in certain INTJ/ENTJ friends, which happen to be defense mechanism, in my own understanding of it), but rather in the mutual bettering of both internal and external logic. The NT will provide rational groundwork for us to analyze intellectually logical ideas, and debate on the objective and subjective understanding we have of it. Our Fe/Fi interactions resonate around my personal emotional groundwork to set a suffiently safe and sound environment for the NT to rent about personal feelings, to which I will try to provide with objective commentary, advice or plain empathy for their condition. 
In that sense, we can say I see the NF-NT interaction as that of a pair of twisted sisters. 

The Looking-Glass Reflection : Concerning N's using Fe, I would simply say that our interactions are greatly appreciated on both parties, for they open up a world of possibilities of understanding intuitive feelings, seeing their ideal perception projected into and through a looking glass, the other's personality. NF's looking glass would be represented as a lens, that can focus in and out of intuitive matter, while INTP's looking glass would be represented as see-through mirror.

In terms of understanding of the types, I can say that I get along very well with every female I meet, even though some of them are (often unconsciously) antagonizing with my functions, I just seem to adopt a different approach to deconstruct any potential conflict. 

I'll come back to discuss later about certain psychoanalytical understandings of the feminine archetype in modern society, going from the figures of hysteria to the femme fatale's icon. I have a few ideas on the topic.


----------



## Annesyl (Dec 20, 2013)

StElmosDream said:


> Just a thought I had, do you feel (societally speaking) males have enough incentives to invest heavily in non romantic relationships long term compared to females that by assumptions alone may gain emotionally acceptant support, support networks in their own gender or some males and the ability to discuss issues without a context or alcohol (I would not know fully since so many of the bonds I have known focussed on shared education, artificial social groups and previously more misogynistic 'male bonding' I disliked).


Unfortunately, not many guys invest in deeper meaningful communication without being romantically interested.
But I would also say that it goes the same for many females. It's sad, but most, females or males, are quite needy and insecure... and are not interested in discovering outter world just for a discovery. They need to rely on something before themselves. Alcohol deshinibits a lot.


----------



## Annesyl (Dec 20, 2013)

Ironlady said:


> Hello !
> 
> I'll share with you my experiences with female interactions. I will specify beforehand that my presentation might appear very systemic, and logically-driven, that being explained by the fact that I have a developed Ti which I use to model my social interactions for better understanding. I consider my perception of the INFJ's experience to be that of the Scholar, or Academic oriented towards abstract understanding(Ni) of social issues(Fe).
> 
> ...


I am curious to read your point of view about archetypes.
For the rest, it embraces my personal theory I mentioned before: we can get along with anybody, just need to choose our way of communication and the subject according to the person in front of us.
Thank you for putting it into a logical explanation.


----------



## StElmosDream (May 26, 2012)

Annesyl said:


> Unfortunately, not many guys invest in deeper meaningful communication without being romantically interested.
> But I would also say that it goes the same for many females. It's sad, but most, females or males, are quite needy and insecure... and are not interested in discovering outer world just for a discovery. They need to rely on something before themselves. Alcohol dis inhibits a lot.


Which is quite sad on a societal level of crutches and 'regulated floodgates', fearing being seen as imperfectly human, seeking deeper meaning while fearing being truly known or knowing thyself without shortcuts prevalent in extrospection over introspective contemplation. 
Personally letting go of the desire to 'relate' that getting drunk, considering prolonged stimulants or wild lifestyles affords some in the way of 'release valves' of 'blame it on the [insert self medication or social setting]' crutch, realising that as an emotionally sensitive male I suppressed more than others gave in return, being seen as 'a downer', 'aloof' or 'a rebel' in some way while never actually feeling love in a friendship (philia) or supported when around stereotypical 'get angry but don't look weak' males and 'only I can cry or get moody, while others are supposed to be strong and stoic' mentality fun immature adult girls.


----------



## lilpixieofterror (Oct 24, 2013)

*shrug*

I get along with other women as well as with men, it really isn't that hard to do either. True there are the worthless topics many women talk about such as boys, shoes, cloths, etc that I have (at best) a passing interest in (I do enjoy picking out a style at trying on new cloths and stuff, but it doesn't mean I want to talk about it either). The thing is though, men too have these worthless topics too and for them it tends to be more like sports, cars, or movies tend to be more their thing (one of my guy friends I swear knows about every movie ever made and could tell you the movie title with bare min information at that). So I am rather puzzled that some people bring up worthless topics that can come up in conversations with women while ignoring that there's plenty of worthless topics that come up with men too.


----------



## Courtalort (Jun 29, 2013)

Sheisstellar said:


> Hi, I'm new.


Hi New! I'm dad.


----------



## randomshoes (Dec 11, 2013)

Haydn said:


> I do know what feminism means and I more or less share your perspective on it. I mentioned being a bit of a feminist to imply something else which I think you might have missed.
> 
> Also, I do not dislike all males just most that I have come across but not because I am a feminist.
> 
> I honestly just prefer the 'typical' female characteristics/personality and just feel better around women overall.


My problem is the phrase "'typical' female characteristics/personality." I don't believe that exists. What does that mean? We're on a personality typing site. There is no category in MTBI, cognitive functions, enneagrams, or socionics that is gender specific. What is this mysterious personality trait that is specific to, or even more common in men or women? There are stereotypes and there are gendered social _expectations_, but those are not personality traits.


----------



## Haydn (Sep 20, 2012)

randomshoes said:


> My problem is the phrase "'typical' female characteristics/personality." I don't believe that exists. What does that mean? We're on a personality typing site. There is no category in MTBI, cognitive functions, enneagrams, or socionics that is gender specific. What is this mysterious personality trait that is specific to, or even more common in men or women? There are stereotypes and there are gendered social _expectations_, but those are not personality traits.


I guess everyone knows the obvious that people are all unique and individual regardless of what large group they are from. I do think that men and women overall have a lot of differences both physically and personality wise (the latest scientific research backs me up on this I think) and I find that women generally seem softer, more nurturing, sensitive and emotional in a good way. Of course, there are women who have none or few of these qualities and men who have them in abundance but speaking generally I have found more women to have these qualities than men and I like these qualities in a person.


----------



## googoodoll (Oct 20, 2013)

I feel ya, I even struggle to relate or get along with my own type! (INFJ females), i get along with NT females more, i think.


----------



## randomshoes (Dec 11, 2013)

Haydn said:


> I guess everyone knows the obvious that people are all unique and individual regardless of what large group they are from. I do think that men and women overall have a lot of differences both physically and personality wise (the latest scientific research backs me up on this I think) and I find that women generally seem softer, more nurturing, sensitive and emotional in a good way. Of course, there are women who have none or few of these qualities and men who have them in abundance but speaking generally I have found more women to have these qualities than men and I like these qualities in a person.


I have never seen any scientific research that supports any inherent differences in personality. Physically is another kettle of fish, but we're not talking about that. The personality qualities you listed as being more common in women are stereotypes and social constructions. There's no science there.


----------



## Haydn (Sep 20, 2012)

randomshoes said:


> I have never seen any scientific research that supports any inherent differences in personality. Physically is another kettle of fish, but we're not talking about that. The personality qualities you listed as being more common in women are stereotypes and social constructions. There's no science there.


There is scientific research. I do not wish to prolong this discussion with you. Perhaps in your own time you can look around and see if you find any of this research but in any case my own experience suggests that [in general] men and women have individual differences even at the level of personality and it is not just about stereotypes. Your own experience might suggest something else and that is o.k too.


----------



## OQHeckshire (Dec 20, 2013)

Weird said:


> Well, even as a male INFJ I have issues making friends or maintaining friends. They have to "click" with me, or I don't really feel comfortable.


About six months ago, I started developing a friendship with an INFJ. I've been extraordinarily intense in growing the friendship into closeness. She's been pretty angry at me at times, but she keeps bouncing back and holding onto the friendship. She mostly felt I was being controlling. I would guess that we pressed through 5 to 10 years of friendship growth in six months. I thought she was going to "door slam" me a couple of times.

EDIT: Actually, I almost quit a couple of times, even though I was driving. I didn't feel the friendship was being requited. Finally, she broke into actual friendship behavior. I'm all or nothing with friends. I only have a couple, I rarely open to another, and I'm not likely to pursue anymore.


----------



## bearotter (Aug 10, 2012)

Sheiistellar said:


> Hi, I'm new.
> 
> I'm a very preceptive/intuitive INFJ but I have always found men much easier to understand. Women confuse and frustrate me to the point where I have trouble maintaining friendships with them. I'm always the odd one out in a group of girls or I at least feel this way. Do any other INFJs have this issue? Why does this happen? No matter how nice a female is I always see the bad side of them and can't get passed it.




Welcome. 

Among other things, this is unlikely to be directly related to personality typology. My best message to you as a newcomer is that you can learn a lot of interesting things about yourself through typology, but that a TON of forum posts are tantamount to expecting some commonality you identify between yourself and your common type members. This expectation is understandable, but much as one may wish to build a community, the reality is that what makes you similar to someone else _often_ is very independent of type. 

This said, the most systematized attempt at delineating patterns of interaction between two people based on their type structure that I know of happens in the system called socionics, which also operates on similar foundations (but not by any stretch the same) to the MBTI. These all have their flaws and benefits.


----------



## spiderfrommars (Feb 22, 2012)

@Haydn claiming research exists but not providing it doesn't constitute an argument, you know. If you don't want to have a discussion, stop participating, don't try to have the last word.


----------



## randomshoes (Dec 11, 2013)

Haydn said:


> There is scientific research. I do not wish to prolong this discussion with you. Perhaps in your own time you can look around and see if you find any of this research but in any case my own experience suggests that [in general] men and women have individual differences even at the level of personality and it is not just about stereotypes. Your own experience might suggest something else and that is o.k too.


Okay, I'll go read up on that research you cited at www.somewhereonetheinternetorperhapsinmymind.com. Hopefully I'll come back better educated.


----------



## Chas23 (Sep 25, 2012)

Weird said:


> Well, even as a male INFJ I have issues making friends or maintaining friends. They have to "click" with me, or I don't really feel comfortable.


I'm the same way. They have to "click" with me.. In general, I find it harder to get along with and understand sensors unless we have similar interests. I have very few close sensor friends but plenty of intuitives. So maybe it's a communication thing? Who knows. I know I get along with guys better on a superficial level but my closest friends are female.


----------



## ENTJudgement (Oct 6, 2013)

Sheisstellar said:


> Hi, I'm new.
> 
> I'm a very preceptive/intuitive INFJ but I have always found men much easier to understand. Women confuse and frustrate me to the point where I have *trouble maintaining friendships with them*. I'm always the odd one out in a group of girls or I at least feel this way. Do any other INFJs have this issue? Why does this happen? No matter how nice a female is I always see the bad side of them and can't get passed it.


From my experience, INFJs have a zero tolerance rule when it comes to compromising their values and morals. This is the primary reason why they find friendships and relationships difficult to maintain, everything the other person does in terms of values and morals must match their own.

Although there is nothing wrong with having values and morals and it is not a mistake to pick and choose your friends wisely, there is however one fundamental thing that INFJs should perhaps try and digest.

Values and morals are one's opinion, they are not universal, they are not absolute, there is not a right nor a wrong as everyone has a relative sense of justice, values and morals.

Hope this helps =).


----------

