# Childhood Development Theory of the Enneagram - Revision?



## Shadowlight (Dec 12, 2012)

LeaT said:


> Blerch, feels like I'm spilling too much of my gut writing about this so I'll stop.


That is quite alright. I'm happy to read. But if you don't want to share more, then that's ok as well. 

Did you have a strong love/hate relationship with the world (ambivalence): wanting to participate in the world and the lives of others, and feeling like it's an amazing place, to feeling a sense of hatred for it because it was all so over-whelming and that you didn't have anything to offer in the lives of others? 

You don't have to answer if you don't want to. We can pick up the discussion at a later time.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Shadowlight said:


> That is quite alright. I'm happy to read. But if you don't want to share more, then that's ok as well.
> 
> Did you have a strong love/hate relationship with the world (ambivalence): wanting to participate in the world and the lives of others, and feeling like it's an amazing place, to feeling a sense of hatred for it because it was all so over-whelming and that you didn't have anything to offer in the lives of others?
> 
> You don't have to answer if you don't want to. We can pick up the discussion at a later time.


More like envy then. What you write actually sounds rather 2-ish to me. More envy that the world seems so much more awesome in the eyes of others than it is through mine, frustration and anger because I couldn't seem to make it so no matter how I tried and I couldn't seem to find the right configuration in my life puzzle to make it happen. It's as if I was trying to solve this problem and I'm just one step away from finding the grand solution that explains everything and once I have this answer, all my problems will go away but no matter how I keep searching, I cannot find the answer. 

I think I relate a bit more what you mean when it comes to people in a way. Like, I love people deep down, humans can do amazing things that fascinate and impress me to no end. But at the same time I despise people because while we can do so many good things, we don't. We choose not to. And I love people because I know I feel so much more happy and fulfilled with a meaningful relationship in my life, but I hate how I cannot seem to find a way to create that connectiion. Again, I turn to contempt. If I cannot have it then I am going to hate it since it's clearly not for me anyway.


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## Shadowlight (Dec 12, 2012)

@LeaT - In other words, what I'm noticing is a slight difference in strategies adopted as a child. In my case, the 2-fix strategy of wanting to be of service and providing assistance made me fill a niche that I figured out was missing. It took me a long time to figure out because i needed to know more and more about them. I had to consult books and read articles online on how to be a better daughter before I actually figured things out. I strategized what my parents needed and then provided it. 

I participated in others' lives through providing knowledge and objectivity where I saw it missing. My mother being close to a feeling dominant had issues around trusting others too much and lacking in information in making decisions and getting hurt by the machinations of others. So I became her information provider (would basically take as much data as I could about people that made her life miserable and showed her how to be less of a doormat) and for my father, provided him with an intellectual who could spar with him at the dinner table and talk about new stuff that was learned. 

Everything I am today, is a result of information gathering, isolating and coming out of that isolation to conduct experiments (in all matters of life), learning from the results of it all and tweaking towards achieving better results.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Shadowlight said:


> @_LeaT_ - In other words, what I'm noticing is a slight difference in strategies adopted as a child. In my case, the 2-fix strategy of wanting to be of service and providing assistance made me fill a niche that I figured out was missing. It took me a long time to figure out because i needed to know more and more about them. I had to consult books and read articles online on how to be a better daughter before I actually figured things out. I strategized what my parents needed and then provided it.
> 
> I participated in others' lives through providing knowledge and objectivity where I saw it missing. My mother being close to a feeling dominant had issues around trusting others too much and lacking in information in making decisions and getting hurt by the machinations of others. So I became her information provider (would basically take as much data as I could about people that made her life miserable and showed her how to be less of a doormat) and for my father, provided him with an intellectual who could spar with him at the dinner table and talk about new stuff that was learned.
> 
> Everything I am today, is a result of information gathering, isolating and coming out of that isolation to conduct experiments (in all matters of life), learning from the results of it all and tweaking towards achieving better results.


Yes, we most definitely differ in terms of image. I'm more in search for my own meaning and purpose that will make me unique so most definitely 4w5, and I relate a lot to how both 4 and 8 are types that are described of having a feeling of loss. That feeling differs between types but I can see both within myself. I think the way I coped was definitely through a sense of me utterly being against the world alone, and in retrospect I now also part understand my deep-seated sense of overall alienation. It should come as no surprise that I have trust problems as well. 

On a sidenote, did you feel unloved or are you strongly driven by feelings of not being loved? If that's not too much to ask of course. Because I can in a way perhaps see that streak in me but not as how it appears in you. I should add that there are perhaps other reasons why I'm also a 4 rather than a 2, which has to do with the fact that I'm adopted and was born with a birth defect that can be seen by those who know where to look. It was more visible when I was younger before I went through several operations meant to fix it as well. I was literarily defected and I am unsure if that's something I will ever truly overcome. I fuss less about it now than I used to, but I'm still hyperaware of it even if people around me don't seem to notice. 

With that in mind, it becomes obvious why 4 for image and not 3 or 2. I vaguely remember the feelings of disgust and hate I felt towards myself as a teenager and that's part why I try to not remember. It was just an extremely unhealthy place to be at. I'm happy I haven't experienced something like abuse or any of the sort as a child, but in a way the neglect and lack of support I felt certainly plays an important role in who I am today and it certainly isn't something I would want to see anyone else go through. It was a personal hell, for sure. It took a lot of time for me to learn to accept myself to the point where I am today. 

I don't hate or blame my parents though, or my grandparents, I just wished I had been born in a time or a place where none of those difficulties existed and I could have that childhood life I imagined everyone else having but me. Haha @_tanstaafl28_, would you still consider me balanced after reading all this?  The 4 influence is undeniable. No wonder I was considering core 4 for myself.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

Why not? Only part of you is from the past. What you have become since then is greater.


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## Shadowlight (Dec 12, 2012)

LeaT said:


> On a sidenote, did you feel unloved or are you strongly driven by feelings of not being loved?


No. This doesn't apply to me as much as it might to some others because I have ... "acquired" love in the past and in the present. I'm counter-rejection in every way and therefore easily able to strategize ways to find love - both "fake" as well as true. I'm easily able to tell the difference as well because I can spot the fakers a mile away. And recognizing love is also very easy for me because I've developed a keen sense of how different people show love and in what way. 

When I was younger (around my teens), I was completely oblivious to love as a concept or desire (period) 

Perhaps because it was freely given and easily accessible to me when I needed it. In fact, being loved by someone or the other is probably the biggest constant in my life - and I am grateful for it. I just have problems reciprocating the way it's expected of me, and rarely express it.


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## Mizmar (Aug 12, 2009)

*Neutral child vs. Responsive parent
This scenario is thought to produce Enneagram type 5

In this relationship, the Responsive parent is inclined to give a lot of unrequested attention to the Neutral child, who perceives his parent's supportive and affectionate attitude as a form of smothering. My parents never really gave me unrequested attention and I didn't experience them as "smothering". The youngster will tend to withdraw from his environment, preferring solitary activities and contemplation, but as opposed to the previous scenario (of type 9), loneliness will not be accompanied by a feeling of rejection. That sentence is accurate, in my case. At the contrary, being alone is a matter of choice and it gives a feeling of security and well-being, knowing that there is always someone to communicate with when they decide to seek out company. Also accurate.

Such children are genuine loners, who prefer and enjoy their solitude. Yes. They are introspective, insightful and love learning and discovering things on their own, usually rejecting any help or intervention from the outside. I don't recall ever rejecting help. They are afraid of being intruded upon because their parents used to make a fuss over them and suffocate them with attention and demands for closeness. My parents didn't suffocate me with attention, demands, or fuss. They gave me a lot of space and time to myself. It's something I'm quite thankful for. *


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## RepairmanMan Man (Jan 21, 2012)

I don't believe the childhood scenario stuff myself. At least, let's say I'm very adverse to the thought that something happened in my early childhood to shape my enneagram type. Traditionally, it's said that 6s were attached to their father figure (no) and/or suffered from a fearful, unpredictable childhood that made them chronically fearful adults. I strongly disagree with this.

The scenario listed in the OP for type 6 is actually somewhat closer to the truth, but it is still only _one aspect_ of my childhood. I can also see elements of the 7-scenario (this one might actually be better for my early childhood), as well as 4 and 8 (at least, starting around the age of nine).

My mother and step-father were both "neutral", and I'm probably best described by "active".

It's interesting to think about, but ultimately I have to reject it--I am the way I am simply because I am the way I am.


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## madhatter (May 30, 2010)

I'd say my mom was the epitome of a Responsive parent, and my dad swung back and forth between being Active to being Neutral. I personally like the childhood development theory, although I don't think it's always right all the time. I identify with the childhood developments of all three neutral child scenarios, which just so happen to be the three types in my tritype...not perfectly, but with the essence of it. Like, I didn't feel smothered by my mother until I was in my teens. As for the 9 scenario, I would say that this didn't come from my parents' behavior to me personally, but the general air of strife between my parents. My parents fought a lot when I was growing up, and I would hide on the staircase or run away outside to ride my bike.


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## heaveninawildflower (Feb 5, 2012)

I can relate to type 4 and type 8. I was an active child. My dad was neutral, my mom was active. I was not close to either one of them. I also grew up in a home with domestic violence so neither one of my parents were able to attend to any emotional needs that I had. I just lived with them but I felt very much like an orphan.

I liked sports when I was a kid and I always wanted to play on a softball team. My mom never allowed me to join anything. My mom was the disciplinarian and if you went against her you paid for it. And I went against my mom on a lot of things including joining a softball team. I found a local team that let me join and I didn't tell my mom. I got half way through the season before she found out. And when she did she was furious. She was going to pull me off the team. My coach intervened and he was allowed to keep me on the team until the end of the season. So I finished the season and my mom wouldn't allow the coach to keep me on the team for the next season. I was crushed because I really liked playing ball. I ran away from home not long after that happened. Between the domestic violence and my mom making home feel more like a prison, I just wanted to get away from there and live my own life.


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## sleepyhead (Nov 14, 2011)

*Active: demanding, assertive, bossy, outspoken, intimidating, egocentric, expressive, willful.

Responsive: *_supportive, responsive, engaging, affectionate, friendly, sympathetic, cooperative.
_*
Neutral: avoidant, *_withdrawn_*, indifferent, apathetic, absent, *_reserved_*, ignoring, neg*_l_*ectful.

Neutral child vs. Responsive parent
This scenario is thought to produce Enneagram type 5

In this relationship, the Responsive parent is inclined to give a lot of unrequested attention to the Neutral child, who perceives his parent's supportive and affectionate attitude as a form of smothering. *_The youngster will tend to withdraw from his environment, preferring solitary activities and contemplation, but as opposed to the previous scenario (of type 9), loneliness will not be accompanied by a feeling of rejection.At the contrary, being alone is a matter of choice and it gives a feeling of security and well-being, knowing that there is always someone to communicate with when they decide to seek out company._*

Such children are genuine loners, who prefer and enjoy their solitude. *_ They are introspective, insightful and love learning_* and discovering things on their own, usually rejecting any help or intervention from the outside. They are afraid of being intruded upon because *_their parents used to make a fuss over them_* and suffocate them with attention and demands for closeness.*

The italicized parts are what I agree with. I think of my mom as being the primary caregiver and she definitely fits the responsive parent (my dad is a mix of responsive and active). I don't feel I fit the neutral child so much, but I know I had a very good, privileged, loving childhood. I never really remember feeling suffocated or neglected, however, I think when my younger brother came along my moms attention really turned to him - not that she was neglectful of me, but I understood she had to take care of the baby and made myself self-sufficient. Both my parents gave me lots of love and affection but they also gave me my space. They're both introverted types as well and prefer their own space to a point. I do feel like I was intruded upon in a way because I feel like there were always people around - friends, family, my brothers, etc.

I definitely think a huge part of our development happens in childhood. If our type is inborn, then I think our childhood will likely shape how healthy we are and what neuroses will be more prominent in an individual. I don't really feel like this particular theory fits for me because I think I was fairly responsive as a child.


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## Bricolage (Jul 29, 2012)

RoSoDude said:


> Firstly, I think there is a mistake in the determination of the 3 and 4 types that would be fixed by switching the two. The theory states that 3's are Neutral children interacting with a Neutral parent, while 4's are an Active child interacting with a Neutral parent. This idea seems inconsistent with understanding of the two types. The 4 is more of a neutral type, while the 3 is more of an active type.


Suffice it to say that the ego defense mechanisms graft around a perceived deficit in the psyche. The "adult" tendencies are carryover from childhood needs which weren't met. If fours are ignored early, they want that flashy or "unique" persona later to compensate. :mellow:


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## Holunder (May 11, 2010)

I can't at all agree with the description of the seven childhood. My parents were from the beginning subtly blackmailing me, my mother let her frustration out on her family, and my father used me to prop up his fragile self confidence. I learned as a child that my own needs are less important than those of my parents, and I needed years to come to a healthy understanding and appreciation of my own wishes. So I had basically the very opposite childhood of the one described.

I think the author of that article completely misunderstands sevens. Yes, we want to be enthusiastic and carefree, but not because we simply don't know otherwise. This is rather an insult to all people who manage to be happy and confident despite going through rough times, because it kind of assumes that when you are happy, you can't have had bad experiences.

Apart from that, wouldn't 'active', 'responsive' and 'neutral' be personality traits closely tied to the Enneagram and therefore would already have to be there for the types to form in the first place? This is going in circles.


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## itsme45 (Jun 8, 2012)

My mother would fit best in the Responsive parent category (though she was not always available, pretty busy working etc.). Somewhat controlling (Active) too, though, if I compare her parenting style to what my sister's doing with her own little kids now.

My father was closest to Neutral and sometimes Active.

Myself? Mostly Active.

That comes out to types 7 and 4, with only a little 8. *shrug*


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## d e c a d e n t (Apr 21, 2013)

Sounds a bit simplistic to me either way. Not only do a lot of children have more than one parental figure (and a lot have none), but some have siblings, and then there's relatives and friends that may also take a part in shaping their lives and personality. Say your mom was reactive, your dad was neutral, and you had an older sibling who was active, etc.

As for my mom, I don't actually remember how I experienced her as a child. I guess she's been a mix between active and responsive.


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