# NTJ = Chess, NTP = Scrabble



## nevermore

I was just thinking about these strategy games and wondered if NTP's tended to be better at Scrabble and NTJs at chess. It seems to me that the former demands more Ne (although a bit of Te can be useful), whereas the latter demands more Ni and Te. One is all about possibilities and combinations of words (Ne), and knowing which letters to bring out at which times and locations on the board to maximize your score (which I guess has a bit of Te). Chess, on the other hand, is all about foresight/strategy (Ni) and pragmatic movement of the pieces. Personally, I've always been a lot better at Scrabble (although having a large vocabulary does help, no matter what your type is, that alone isn't what wins you the game). To contrast, I'm not too good at thinking ahead and tend to be quite dithering when it comes to chess. I think Ti isn't nearly as good as Te here, and all Ne is useful for is getting a sense of knowing what my opponents strategy is, but it isn't nearly as good as Ni for thinking up its own strategies that will actually WORK, imo.

Any thoughts?


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## Harley

I won't speak for all INTJ's but I hate chess. I definitely prefer scrabble. I don't know what it is I dislike about chess, but it's a game I have never been able to get into. Personally I think it's just dull. But I do like other strategy based games like tycoon games, and Risk. I also love empire building games, since not only is it strategy based but also I have complete control (well almost) over everything. I would assume NTP's would also like these games but perhaps for different reasons. Do you like tycoon games and the like? What other games to you think would suit NTP's?


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## skycloud86

I'm much better at Scrabble than I am at chess, although I've played Scrabble much more than I've played chess. Even so, I'm no good at chess.


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## nevermore

Harley said:


> I won't speak for all INTJ's but I hate chess. I definitely prefer scrabble. I don't know what it is I dislike about chess, but it's a game I have never been able to get into. Personally I think it's just dull. But I do like other strategy based games like tycoon games, and Risk. I also love empire building games, since not only is it strategy based but also I have complete control (well almost) over everything. I would assume NTP's would also like these games but perhaps for different reasons. Do you like tycoon games and the like? What other games to you think would suit NTP's?


Hmm...Sudoku seems NTP (although I'm no good at it:/)...Boggle...anything that involves working with possibilities (Ne) based on a principled framework of logical rules (namely the game rules, which is Ti). Often having a concrete store of facts like words comes into it too (Si). Pure strategy seems NTJ...evil plans :crazyNi) and organized and brought into being with a more pragmatic logic (Te) where the rules are "more like guidelines". Series like "Age of Empires" would be one of those. I think NT's have the potential to be good at all sorts of strategy games but I am suspecting there could be a bias for certain types based on cognitive preferences. 

NT neutral games would be games like Sim City...I think either a Ti/Ne or Ni/Te approach would do there.


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## magister343

I am not a very good opener at Chess, but once things get going I tend to do pretty well. I'm not a really competitive chess club type, but I do play slightly better than my INTJ father. More importantly, the longer I'm playing the better I get. I prefer to play several games in a row, and tend to become sharper each time. He rarely agrees to more than one game, and clams to be exhausted afterward whereas I end up more energized. 



I am good at Scrabble, but I tend to take too long to decide on what word to make for each move. People thus rarely want to play it with me. The fact that I can get single words worth more than their final scores also discourages them. 


My INFP mother refuses to try to learn Chess, but she is an amazing Scrabble player. The words she makes may not be quite as good as some of mine, but they are close and she sees them very quickly.


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## nevermore

magister343 said:


> I am good at Scrabble, but I tend to take too long to decide on what word to make for each move.


Lol, that's INTP for you.:crazy:


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## Vahkrin

Harley said:


> I won't speak for all INTJ's but I hate chess. I definitely prefer scrabble. I don't know what it is I dislike about chess, but it's a game I have never been able to get into. Personally I think it's just dull. But I do like other strategy based games like tycoon games, and Risk. I also love empire building games, since not only is it strategy based but also I have complete control (well almost) over everything. I would assume NTP's would also like these games but perhaps for different reasons. Do you like tycoon games and the like? What other games to you think would suit NTP's?


I could never really get into chess myself... perhaps I just haven't given it enough of a chance? Who knows. Either way, scrabble's more my kinda game, though not my first choice of activities. I definitely enjoy empire building games. Zoo Tycoon 2 eats up an illogical amount of my time, for what it is. Same with Civ 5. :crazy: 

I don't really have an answer for other games suited to NTP's- But I think perhaps we would most enjoy making up our own, if my obsession with RPG systems and modding The Elder Scrolls games more than I play them is any indication.


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## murderegina

I'm not xNTJ, but I am INFJ and I definitely prefer chess to scrabble. I would assume this could be based on the IxxJ strategy mindset.


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## magister343

I haven't really gotten into Civ V yet. I was playing it about an hour ago, but they seem to have dumbed it down too much to hold my interest. Of course, I hadn't played vanilla Civ IV in a long time either and it is probably not fair to compare Civ V to my personal mod of the Fall From Heaven II mod. 


I tend to like "modding" normal board games too. I've played a lot of variants, but the two minor rule changes rules I almost always like to use:
"Friendly Fire" - This one is fairly simple; you can attack your own pieces, not only those of your enemy. Normally it is not wise to do so, but occasionally it is and sometimes it is simply the only choice. I find it much more fun to force my opponent to kill his own queen than to win the game. 

"Checks and Balances" - With this it is fine for your king to stay in or even move into check, so long as as each check is balances by a check on the other king. It becomes rather important to set things up so that your opponent's king is under attack from one that one of your units at a time.


I haven't done it in a long time, but I used to like including both chess and checker pieces on the board at the same time, setting it up so that almost the whole board was full. It could be rather slow going and the checkers largely just got in the way at the start, but if you set things up right you could have a checker take out all of your opponent's power pieces in one turn. It did get a little annoying how often my dad tried to put the checker kings in check though. 


My dad would rather play checkers than chess. I'd rather play fairy chess and try out new rules each game.


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## jack london

I am an INTJ and I can't play scrabble to save my life and I have a decent vocabulary. I love strategy games.


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## Ormazd

I enjoy both games, though I think I prefer Chess because it is much more "pure". That is, there is no element of randomness, only you and the other person. This is also why I like the board game Diplomacy.

And it should be noted that for both scrabble and chess a lot of "being good" is just getting experience. In chess this could be learning what typical situations arise (E.G. getting forked by a knight in chess, how to see it coming or how to set it up) or in Scrabble learning uncommon words that can often be formed with letters that don't usually go together.


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## darksoul

Scrabble over chess any day. The only reason I bought an iPhone was for the "Words with Friends" app. It's fun to be able to play scrabble with people from all over the world and of different skill levels.

*any with an iPhone? wanna play a game or two?*


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## floccinaucinihilipilifica

I prefer scrabble too. I hate chess. I wish I could be good at it, but apparently I really sucked. I hate making the wrong move and to ensure that doesn't happen I usually take forever just to make a move, analysing every possibility. And I hate the fact that my opponent does it so effortlessly, wth? haha. It's also something about the rules that make it rather linear, and limited.

Oh and I'm INTP


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## Zinette

Either.

I love to play unlimited tic tac toe [you have to line up 5 X-es or 5 O-s and the grid has no limits]


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## timwaagh

hmmz...chess or scrabble. they are so lifeless and lack colour. give me a computer game anytime, or just something funkier. i am not good at either of them. Scrabble requires a long vocabulaire and all of it at the forefront of your mind. my mother usually wins that. chess is about thinking clearly under stress, which i can't. my brother (who tested ISTJ) wins that.
for boardgames, i like games where being mean can help you. then of course there are computer strategy games. the more complex, the better, imo.


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## IncredibleMouse

cebveilarlbslo


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## Enkidu

There might be some truth to that. Most people I play in chess aren't amused by it for long before they get bored. Scrabble is fun but it doesn't have the same amount of planning and strategy that chess requires. I'd opt for chess 9 times out of 10 but unfortunately it's not a very social game :sad:


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## lylyness

Well, I kind of suck at chess but am really good at Scrabble. But that might have more to do with me being a really verbal person than me being a P.

They probably fall out of the realm of "strategy games," but word games like Taboo, Scattergories, and Apples to Apples are my personal favorites.


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## The Exception

I don't have the patience or interest to master chess. I've played a few games and it seemed too slow and boring for me. I find it tedious to have to think several moves ahead all the time. Maybe that suggests I'm weaker on the Ni+Te skillset.

I much prefer Scrabble.


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## Maverick45

I actually hate scrabble, I'm ok at it but I prefer chess.


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## Liontiger

Aßbiscuits said:


> Because Te is about external logic, they wouldn't like to waste their time playing games because their logic is geared toward their goals - meaning chess has nothing to do with their goals and it won't help them.


They have to let loose at _some point :laughing: _External logic can certainly be used for game playing!


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## BeeInTheBonnet

I don't like chess, but that may be just me being outplayed by my uncle a few times too many when I was a kid... :wink:

I rock at Scrabble. Boggle is cool too.

Settlers of Catan and Risk - yessssss


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## Aßbiscuits

Liontiger said:


> They have to let loose at _some point :laughing: _External logic can certainly be used for game playing!


Oh yes, I let loose, I love games! The logic behind them I see is: they make me happy so why not?  However, they only really use this logic for their goals you know? So games don't come into it, unless they use this way while playing obviously but it's what interests them into doing in the first place and more than likely they won't want to waste their logic on a "silly little game".


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## nevermore

Aßbiscuits said:


> Because Te is about external logic, they wouldn't like to waste their time playing games because their logic is geared toward their goals - meaning chess has nothing to do with their goals and it won't help them.


Well, isn't winning at chess a goal?:/ Silly, yeah, but doesn't that have more to do with personal opinion/interest than type?


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## Aßbiscuits

nevermore said:


> Well, isn't winning at chess a goal?:/ Silly, yeah, but doesn't that have more to do with personal opinion/interest than type?





> Chess is the sort of game that doesn't make much money or produce any meaningful externally measurable results unless you're extraordinarily good at it. ENTJ is actually the NT type least likely to apply him/herself heavily to something like Chess because Te dominance demands that a useful application derive from anything that's given significant attention--anything less would be an inefficient distribution of resources.
> 
> In short, most ENTJs would rather spend the bulk of their time on something that produces obvious results. Learning Chess simply because it fascinates you is much more common for INTP or ENTP, or to a lesser extent INTJ.


I agree with this.


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## Valdyr

I won't speak for all INTJs, but I'm certainly far better at chess than at scrabble, and I vastly prefer it as well. I rarely lose at chess (and other such strategy games, such as *nerd-out moment* trading card games), but I usually lose at scrabble.

Chess is a game where one has to come up with a plan very quickly, and to constantly play based on what will likely happen many turns in advance. One also has to be able to look at the same board from the other player's perspective, so one can know what the best possible move is from their perspective, and play accordingly. I'm no MBTI expert, but this strikes me as very Ni-Te.

Scrabble, on the other hand, is simply too much spontaneous idea generation at high speeds for me. Not only can I not pull words off the top of my head, but I also can't do it as quickly as my Ne friends (especially my ENTP closest friend, who is a demon at scrabble).


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## Aßbiscuits

Valdyr said:


> Chess is a game where one has to come up with a plan very quickly, and to constantly play based on what will likely happen many turns in advance. One also has to be able to look at the same board from the other player's perspective, so one can know what the best possible move is from their perspective, and play accordingly. I'm no MBTI expert, but this strikes me as very Ni-Te.


Maybe in MBTI terms, but MBTI sucks. Jungian functions are more reliable than MBTI.

Also despite popular belief Fi is what helps you see through people not Ni.


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## Valdyr

Aßbiscuits said:


> Maybe in MBTI terms, but MBTI sucks. Jungian functions are more reliable than MBTI.


This is very true. I think my view is roughly correct, however, even though I didn't provide an in-depth analysis.


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## Liontiger

Valdyr said:


> Scrabble, on the other hand, is simply too much spontaneous idea generation at high speeds for me. Not only can I not pull words off the top of my head, but I also can't do it as quickly as my Ne friends (especially my ENTP closest friend, who is a demon at scrabble).


You should see Scrabble Flash. It's _timed. _:tongue:


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## pie

I like Scrabble and don't like chess.


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## AkiKaza

@Liontiger: My aunt has scrabble flash, and it's FRICKIN AMAZING. OMG I want it so bad.

But yeah. I definitely prefer word games. Love Scrabble. I have other word games on my iTouch, like Jumbline, Bookworm, Words with Friends (basically scrabble), and Scramble. Pretty much the only games I ever play. Keep me occupied all day long.

I like Chess. Sometimes. I don't do to well at the strategy part, I just like to move the pieces and chase people around the board :crazy: I don't play much, anyway, but when I can, I do.


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## AirMarionette

I don't care much for chess, but I _love_ the idea behind Scrabble - the only thing I have against it are its restrictive rules.


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## Treeton

I enjoy Scrabble, Apples to Apples, Teledraw, and Balderdash. I like games where I can get creatively ridiculous. 
Yes, you read that right.


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## Liontiger

AirMarionette said:


> I don't care much for chess, but I _love_ the idea behind Scrabble - the only thing I have against it are its restrictive rules.


Who says you can't play the way you want to? :wink:


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## undead

This is interesting. 

I always think Chess as having a too restrictive rule, and it's boring. Scrabble, although I don't really play them, is more enjoyable. Maybe because it's easier.

Simple games like Othello or Go also more enjoyable than Chess.

I also prefer RPG over RTS over turn-based strategy games.


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## MissJordan

Cool, I love chess!
It's so.... Classy and grown-up.
Which is becoming my 'thing'.
[Disclaimer: Posting on forums is totally classy and grown-up...]

I do agree though.

As an INTJ, I see cause and effect easily, and can imagine what would happen if I took a certain action.
I never enter a game with an actual plan -- since I don't play often enough to know overall game tactics -- but I can navigate my pieces so they're either directly in protection of another piece, or unable to be attacked by the enemy's piece.

I keep up that method of not making stupid mistakes, and end up winning.

EDIT: I don't really know any INTPs, so I have no idea if you're good at scrabble...


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## talemin

out of curiosity...the better chess gamers I know are ISTJs (tested or obvious!). So how could this be an N - privileged game? :S


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## sonicdrink

ENTP, love scrabble, just can't seem to hang around for chess....


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## Vanitas

I prefer Shogi than Chess, but yeah, Chess over Scrabble.


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## undead

talemin said:


> out of curiosity...the better chess gamers I know are ISTJs (tested or obvious!). So how could this be an N - privileged game? :S


All you need is practice, good understanding of cause and effect, board vision, and comprehension of chess rules. 

Strong intuition will make you a grandmaster though.


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## AirMarionette

Liontiger said:


> Who says you can't play the way you want to? :wink:


Uncooperative players who say, "But that defeats the purpose of the game!" (...lol)

They gave up when I tried to usurp a rule last night while playing Apples to Apples. =_=;


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## Psychosmurf

talemin said:


> out of curiosity...the better chess gamers I know are ISTJs (tested or obvious!). So how could this be an N - privileged game? :S


I think the thread is mostly about game preferences across types.

But yeah, my Grandfather is an ISTJ and I haven't beaten him even once. :tongue:


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## Unicorntopia

I like both. They were both very difficult for me to learn and did not get good at either untill college. I get addicted to chess but can't even touch real players. I love Scrabble and am better at it than Chess but not as good as ENTPs are at it and I take an extremely long time to take a turn. 

I feel like I am as good as I will ever get at Scrabble already but I feel like I have barely even scrapped my potential in Chess.

I know I am an INFJ but maybe this gives you a perspective on Ni Ti rather than just Ni Te and Ti Ne.


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## Deja Vu

I like scrabble, but I've always wanted to be great at chess. I think it is more interesting. The system is what gets me. Its a bit more intellectual. It appeals to my brain, but it pushes for more strategy than tactics, unlike scrabble. That is where I've failed a few times, but eventually...


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## Psychosmurf

^ I don't know. From what I've learned, Chess has virtually nothing to do with strategy until you're playing at master level. Until then, it's 99% tactics.


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## Deja Vu

Sounds you're challenging me to a game of chess...hmm?


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## jdmn

I've also seen that many NTs are into team sports, like soccer, volleyball, basket, anything that needs to be planned. You're competitivee!


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## Deja Vu

I like basketball. I would still be playing if I didn't have to go through the shirades with coaches. Now I'm subjected to pick up games and NBA 2K11


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## Psychosmurf

Deja Vu said:


> Sounds you're challenging me to a game of chess...hmm?


Ahhh... well I'd love to, but I have a tight schedule for the next few millennia. :crazy:


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## possiBri

I'm better at Scrabble than I am at chess... but like many of the others I've played scrabble (and other word games) much more than I've played chess. I'm not terrible at chess, either... but I can't stand extremely slow players, and I make moves too quickly some times (which ultimately leads to me losing). I think that NTPs would be decent at chess since it requires future thinking and a big-picture view...



jdmn said:


> I've also seen that many NTs are into team sports, like soccer, volleyball, basket, anything that needs to be planned. You're competitivee!


I love team sports... my favorite is definitely roller hockey, though.


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## Monkey King

I've never played chess. I enjoy scrabble but get frustrated at the random nature of it. It's weird I tend to look at the game as "what is the best way to position my words so that mo-fo can't reach the DW or TW" especially when I have a disadvantage with the letters I RANDOMLY get (i.e. no vowels) 

I lose sleep over words with friends on the iPhone. >_>


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## plausible

Aila8 said:


> I've never played chess.


/ le gasp! /
You should try it sometime, it might prove to be an excellent experience, or it might frustrate you to no end.

INTP here and I quite enjoy both, chess more then scrabble though. This is probably because I'm more competent at chess then I am at most word problem-type games. 
Sometimes when I'm playing chess I find myself planning moves several sequences ahead, and losing track of what is currently being played out. Which can be slightly problematic, but it forces me to improvise which I'm not crazy about but want to be better at.


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## possiBri

Whoever wants to play chess or scrabble... hit me up! I only have a few days before classes start and that would be a great way to spend my time instead of watching movies lol


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## Monkey King

TheRealJay said:


> / le gasp! /
> You should try it sometime, it might prove to be an excellent experience, or it might frustrate you to no end.
> 
> INTP here and I quite enjoy both, chess more then scrabble though. This is probably because I'm more competent at chess then I am at most word problem-type games.
> Sometimes when I'm playing chess I find myself planning moves several sequences ahead, and losing track of what is currently being played out. Which can be slightly problematic, but it forces me to improvise which I'm not crazy about but want to be better at.


So I actually went out of my way and tried it via online LOL against a computer double-LOL, without reading up how the peices move on the board triple-LOL. Complete pwng to say the least but it grabbed my interest. I thought " If I can position my peices so that the computer can only do x moves...." But I quickly realized not knowing how each peice move was limiting v__v. 

Definitely a new challenge for me----


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## undead

jdmn said:


> I've also seen that many NTs are into team sports, like soccer, volleyball, basket, anything that needs to be planned. You're competitivee!


No, I'm not competitive ;-). I'd much prefer to pursue cooperation than competition. Too tired with such thing, and not good at it.


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## Einsteinette

I love chess it's my fav game but i don't play it cos when i play with people i tend to over-concentrate and end up worn out after the game and playing against your PC is not fun ...


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## absentminded

jdmn said:


> I've also seen that many NTs are into team sports, like soccer, volleyball, basket, anything that needs to be planned. You're competitivee!


I despise team sports. I know how to play, and am pretty proficient. I just don't see the point. Said sports don't exactly engender intelligent conversation or behavior. I won't completely discredit them because I have a friend who's attending college on a track and field scholarship. I'd imagine more NT's would reflect this attitude (perhaps NTJ's more than NTP's, though).

As for chess versus scrabble: never played Scrabble, pretty good at chess.

I think that Ni-Te and Ne-Ti would merely have different approaches to making plans. Ti isn't bad at planning. It just takes its plan from the extant structure of the board.

Conversely, Te has an objective and figures how to make everything on the board work toward that.

It would seem to me that Ti is actually better for chess, since it evolves as the game does. But that's my $0.02.


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## nevermore

absentminded said:


> I despise team sports. I know how to play, and am pretty proficient. I just don't see the point. Said sports don't exactly engender intelligent conversation or behavior. I won't completely discredit them because I have a friend who's attending college on a track and field scholarship. I'd imagine more NT's would reflect this attitude (perhaps NTJ's more than NTP's, though).
> 
> As for chess versus scrabble: never played Scrabble, pretty good at chess.
> 
> I think that Ni-Te and Ne-Ti would merely have different approaches to making plans. Ti isn't bad at planning. It just takes its plan from the extant structure of the board.
> 
> Conversely, Te has an objective and figures how to make everything on the board work toward that.
> 
> It would seem to me that Ti is actually better for chess, since it evolves as the game does. But that's my $0.02.


Ti does not make plans. It classifies, defines, checks for consistency, and locates leverage points. It examines, judges, and leaves it at that. Pi (Si or Ni) is what is responsible for making plans. That's why EP's are so famous for bouncing all over life...great at improvisation, but not natural planners. Those are the IJ's.

I agree with you about not understanding team sports. I actually thought it was an NT thing _not_ to like them...


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## absentminded

absentminded said:


> It just takes its plan from the extant structure of the board.





nevermore said:


> Ti does not make plans. It classifies, defines, checks for consistency, and *locates leverage points.* It examines, judges, and leaves it at that. Pi (Si or Ni) is what is responsible for making plans. That's why EP's are so famous for bouncing all over life...great at improvisation, but not natural planners. Those are the IJ's.
> 
> I agree with you about not understanding team sports. I actually thought it was an NT thing _not_ to like them...


It looks to me like we need a more precise definition of "Plan".


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## Unicorntopia

nevermore said:


> Ti does not make plans. It classifies, defines, checks for consistency, and locates leverage points. It examines, judges, and leaves it at that. Pi (Si or Ni) is what is responsible for making plans. That's why EP's are so famous for bouncing all over life...great at improvisation, but not natural planners. Those are the IJ's.
> 
> I agree with you about not understanding team sports. I actually thought it was an NT thing _not_ to like them...


I thought it was the extoverted judgment functions that were the main functions responsible for planing the external world. ex. Te & Fe -- and internal judgement function (Fi & Ti) responsible for internal structure, and external percieving fuctions (Se & Ne) for external info gathering, and internal percieving (Si & Ni) for internal info gathering. ?


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## Vaan

im more of a backgammon person  but chess is good


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## PAdude

I'm INTP and I'm good at both but not outstanding, I'm better at chess than all of my friends/relatives but I get crushed by anyone who actually goes to tournaments. Also, I prefer sports or trading card games since they are more open-ended.


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## InductiveReasoner

I'm an NTJ and the only person who has been able to beat me at chess was my older sister who strangely enough, is an NTP.


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## possiBri

Vaan said:


> im more of a backgammon person  but chess is good


I LOVE backgammon!


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## rappf

Ugh... I suck ass at chess. I like the _idea_ of me being good at chess, but alas. I do NOT have the discipline or foresight. 

*Or rather, the discipline FOR foresight.* (Planning _ahead_? Gross.)

But I kill people at Scrabble. Maim and barbecue them. Like... I'm that miserable shit with the 100-plus-point _words_. My family hates me for this.

...Hahahaaa...


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## PAdude

When playing scrabble, I have a knack for locating my words advantageously as to boost my own score with bonuses or hinder my opponents' ability to make high scoring words, so even if I get crappy letters or play with someone who has a better vocabulary than I do, I still manage to win much of the time.


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## tangential

Hilarious. I am DAZZLING (28 pts.) at scrabble. My dad, ENTJ, kills me at chess everytime. My mom (ESFJ) loves games that don't require much skill such as Uno. I know an ESTJ who is killer at Risk. Visual riddles such as Rubix cubes, an "S" would probably have the upperhand.


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## justcritic

Some guy said Love backwards is Evil...Evol. >_> sigh.


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## Tootsie

I'm at intp and I love scarbble. HATE chess.


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## Letol

I like both scrabble and chess, though I tend to play much more chess.


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## StrixAluco

I have no interest in chess but I love Scrabble though most of the time I decide not to play because they want to play in teams, observe a player, become irritated because he couldn't see the word which was right in front of him and end up playing and winning.

I'm pretty sure type doesn't determine the abilities one may have in real life, you can be a "stategist" but fail to develop / be sufficiently intelligent to use your functions properly. Plus, most people don't even try to understand what they are not interested in unless it serves a goal.


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## Mind Swirl

I've never liked chess much, it just never appealed to me. I've played Go (kind of like chess) and that was okay, but I wouldn't make a hobby of it. I would be more likely to choose Scrabble because there are usually multiple players which makes things a lot more interesting in my opinion.


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## Thomas60

I used to be good at chess, won tournaments / beat IM's. Noone had my enthusiasm after secondary school... so I just gave up :/
Scrabble is ok too.


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## Nexus6

I love scrabble  [but chess is fun too]


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## RachelAn

I am very good at Scrabble & played it a lot , but I lost interest. I started playing Chess Titans this year ; I prefer it to Scrabble because it's relatively new to me, makes me think & it's challenging. Also I am very fond of internet Backgammon.


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## Inveniet

I can hold my own in both chess and scrabble.
Personally I think it is nitpicking to prove that Ti/Ne or Ni/Te is better suited to any of them.
Your level of understanding and experience is much more important than your particular perspective.
If you want to know, type all the best chess players and see what types are more prevalent.
(Probably have been suggested already, but I don't care to check)


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## Black Hole

I like both equally. Personally I'm more of a sudoku and mahjong person.


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## geppetto

I have no interest in chess, nor have I ever played it... Scrabble I love. xD


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## SPtheGhost

as far as strategy games go, chess is boring


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## Penemue

I like chess but i don't take it that seriously compared to other people, i just play against my mum or the computer. Some people actually look up strategies for chess, which just seems like it would make the experience kind of dull if you're just going through the motions, i perfer to make my own little strategies.

I think i find scrabble more fun though, except for when some people spend ages contemplating their letters, and then go for something really simple. I like finding ways to get lots of points using almost no letters and watching the look on peoples face. I had a letter I at the end of a game once and i was 17 points behind first place. So i put qi on a double word score to get 22 and the look on dads face was priceless. :laughing:

To be honest, my game is poker, or the famous misnomer "Happy Families".


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## NT the DC

Ew I hate Scrabble.
Chess is fun, when you're like 12.

I play video games like final fantasy and grand theft auto, heh.


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## Metamorphia

Interesting, but I wouldn't generalize. I know an INFP who could be the perfect INFP poster-child and he's a master chess player. I doubt that being J or P has any significant influence on one's chess playing abilities.


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## Arnold

I'm pretty good at scrabble, not to say that I don't like chess, it's challengeing, but I'm bad at it simply because I don't plan everything well enough, and I never concentrate long enough, rarely perhaps, to analyse all possible moves.


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## Tea Path

nevermore said:


> I was just thinking about these strategy games and wondered if NTP's tended to be better at Scrabble and NTJs at chess. It seems to me that the former demands more Ne (although a bit of Te can be useful), whereas the latter demands more Ni and Te. One is all about possibilities and combinations of words (Ne), and knowing which letters to bring out at which times and locations on the board to maximize your score (which I guess has a bit of Te). Chess, on the other hand, is all about foresight/strategy (Ni) and pragmatic movement of the pieces. Personally, I've always been a lot better at Scrabble (although having a large vocabulary does help, no matter what your type is, that alone isn't what wins you the game). To contrast, I'm not too good at thinking ahead and tend to be quite dithering when it comes to chess. I think Ti isn't nearly as good as Te here, and all Ne is useful for is getting a sense of knowing what my opponents strategy is, but it isn't nearly as good as Ni for thinking up its own strategies that will actually WORK, imo.
> 
> Any thoughts?


I disagree with your NTJ but agree with your Te Ni.

I find chess deadly dull. Scrabble's ok. I like other strategy type games, usually with resources that I can take from others.


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## BelovedDay

I didn't bother memorizing the patterns on the chessboard, but when it comes to playing chess, I find myself winning most of the time. In scrabble it's just normally for me to come up with a strategem like in chess, depending on the words that I have and the words that are open in the board, It's very likely for me to win most of the time in scrabble, but my ENTP friend beats me to it.


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## Cosmicsense

I learned words with friends easily and beat most players. 400-550pts regularly.

Chess was a challenge. Better than average though my bro whom I suspect is an xNTJ could spend less time studying and still beat me.

After many hours of play I'm now a fairly decent player.

If anyone would like to battle on some wwf or chess send me a pm.

Oh, I do difficult sudokus with ease.

Probably an ENFP


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## Ironweaver

I find Scrabble boring.

I really like chess, though, and am quite good at it, although I have a tendency to be quite reckless and often completely blind to threats due to focusing too much on the strategy in my head.

My ISTP friend is something of a chess rival to me, and is really good at noticing when I leave my pieces exposed - about 50% of the time he manages to gobble up my queen just a little bit after the opening and eventually wins, but I almost always win if I'm more careful. Inferior Se can really be an impediment sometimes.


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## devoid

Huh, I love scrabble. Can't say I'm necessarily better at it though.


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## EllieBear

I LOVE chess, playing against myself, against the computer or real people. I suck at scrabble...


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## azdahak

I think the best chess players aren't necessarily long-term strategists like NTJ (because it's easy to confound a long term strategy in a game like chess) but rather people who notice patterns on the chessboards -- ah! this set-up either leads to this situation or that situation. (SJ?) I used to play chess with my college roommate who was a competitive player with a ranking. I knew the rules, but never learned any gambits or strategies, and would just frustrate him, and occasionally win, with my "unorthodox thinking" as he said to me once. 

I dominate on Scrabble and word games where I get to make up the word, but I suck at a more pattern-recall game like Wheel of Fortune.


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## I am me

i love scrabble and hate chess! chess is way too long
(but i'm not an ntp i'm an nfp)


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## cosmicgeekette

I am good at both Chess & Scrabble. 

I am a tad bit better at chess.

I prefer when they are both short and fast.


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## Pogona Vitticeps

I am more of a Scrabble person and I'm INTx.


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## Nordom

My ISFJ brother averages 400+ points a game in Scrabble and competes in tournaments with the best players in the world.
He's really great at memorizing words, and knows all the 3,4, and 5 letter words in the dictionary.
He's terrible at chess though.


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## Bazinga187

I'm better at chess than I am at Scrabble, but that's more by default than skill. I'm atrocious at Scrabble. I can't visualise the rearrangement of anagrams past about 5 letters. I'd be useless on Countdown.


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## koalaroo

I can play chess decently well. I am much better at Scrabble. I'm that asshole who plops down seven tiles to open a game. I do this with such consistency that my family absolutely refuses to play Scrabble with me anymore. I'm also good about taking up the right spaces on the board, which I think pisses them off even more if we play. My ISTJ sister has a better vocabulary, but I seem to be better at seeing patterns and utilizing the board.


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## jdstankosky

I'm semi-decent at chess, but it's soooo incredibly boring. I could become masterful at it, I'm sure, if I only had the patience, which I don't.

I'm really good at Scrabble, but it is also very boring. The longest part of my turn is adding up the points. The anagrammatical process of word generation is virtually instant. The other players I've played with end up taking far too long in their turns, and I begin to wish I was doing something else pretty quickly.

My game of choice would easily have to be Balderdash.


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## Chaerephon

I think the ENTJ personality functions are basically made for chess.


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## DoctorSkywalker

I'm an INTJ. I am pretty bad at chess but I am actually very good at scrabble.


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## TheVenetian

I'm ok at Scrabble (mainly because I have a fairly diverse vocabulary), but the moments of domination in Chess, Risk, Monopoly, etc, bring me more joy than winning in Scrabble ever has. I'm also good at them.


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## devoid

I love Scrabble, hate Chess. My ENTJ boyfriend is the opposite and so are all the NTJs I know. But I do know a few NTPs who love chess.


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## -Alpha-

devoid said:


> I love Scrabble, hate Chess. My ENTJ boyfriend is the opposite and so are all the NTJs I know. But I do know a few NTPs who love chess.


I don't like chess very much, but I destroy my NTP friends at it. My ENTP friend says he can't stand how I stop chatting with him when we're playing. I'm concentrating and I don't want anything to give away my thought process or distract me. I think the stagnation gets to him.


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## mercury

Darth Alpha said:


> I don't like chess very much, but I destroy my NTP friends at it. My ENTP friend says he can't stand how I stop chatting with him when we're playing. I'm concentrating and I don't want anything to give away my thought process or distract me. I think the stagnation gets to him.


Ah? Really? I have a habit of humming, smiling and watching my opponent's body language when I play chess. Chess is very psychological to me and I _adore_ that because I like it when the light of your friend's eyes start to fade away and you feel your friendship start to deteriorate as you kill every single piece of theirs.


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## -Alpha-

mercury said:


> Ah? Really? I have a habit of humming, smiling and watching my opponent's body language when I play chess. Chess is very psychological to me and I _adore_ that because I like it when the light of your friend's eyes start to fade away and you feel your friendship start to deteriorate as you kill every single piece of theirs.


I play Magic: the gathering competitively. As well I've done chess, drinking games and other one on one activities. Whenever I see that weakness in someone for even a second, its like biting into a good steak..

It's like that Ender's Game quote

"In the moment when I truly understand my enemy, understand him well enough to defeat him, then in that very moment I also love him. I think it's impossible to really understand somebody, what they want, what they believe, and not love them the way they love themselves."

None Se users will never understand that.


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## TruthDismantled

Hmm, well I've played chess and scrabble at the same amount (not much) and I think right now I'm better at scrabble. But it's difficult for me to quantify and compare because I feel like there will be a steep learning curve for chess soon, to the point that it will surpass scrabble. There is much more room for development in chess too.


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## Frenetic Tranquility

I don't think chess is a game INTJ frequently enjoy, unless they get really into it. The reason being, chess seems, at the surface, like a very boring game with little dynamic or surprise. Those with Si immediately enjoy such a game -it's relatively predictable with no "luck" persay (although I'd argue that chess does have luck, but it's covert).

INTJ seem to most like miniatures games like warhammer, games that are very epic in scale but also have many surprise elements.


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## googoodoll

day lava da scribble cous iz soe colurfull! wee! wee! wee!


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## juilorain

I've gotten my INTJ dad in a corner at chess but then miss a move, thus fucking over myself and losing the game several times over. I've won RISK games several times over and/or running many TJs in a corner, once again fucking up a move and losing. I've also had a similar experience with Pokemon, but usually I win.

My strategy planning ability is usually more situational. Socionics claims that ENTPs have just as good Ni and Te as INTJs, but we prefer to use Ne Ti instead.

Whenever I play scrabble, I blow sensors out of the water, though I haven't played against many Ns. Though I suck at words with friends, but that really is a much different game.


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## XDS

Frenetic Tranquility said:


> INTJ seem to most like miniatures games like warhammer, games that are very epic in scale but also have many surprise elements.


I can't say I like surprise elements all that much. Ni is all about narrowing down future possibilities based on what took place in the past and surprises throw a wrench into that.

That isn't to say that games should never be random. Procedurally generated starting scenarios can keep a game fresh by showing you how different permutations of the starting position can play out and how similar starting positions are related. I think games like Risk and Frozen Synapse show what I mean. Games play out similarly and conflicts are resolved in a more or less deterministic manner, but it's very rare to play the exact same game twice.


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## Wartime Consigliere

Frenetic Tranquility said:


> I don't think chess is a game INTJ frequently enjoy, unless they get really into it. The reason being, chess seems, at the surface, like a very boring game with little dynamic or surprise. Those with Si immediately enjoy such a game -it's relatively predictable with no "luck" persay (although I'd argue that chess does have luck, but it's covert).
> 
> INTJ seem to most like miniatures games like warhammer, games that are very epic in scale but also have many surprise elements.


Covert luck in chess? How so? People making mistakes...?

I do enjoy chess quite a bit, but I identify with what you said as well. I like the element of luck/unpredictability in a game. It makes things more fluid. I especially like card games such as Presidents and Arseholes or Shithead/3-up 3-down. Testing the opponents' order of which they use their cards and what cards they pass/pick-up on as a means of gauging what cards they have is fun. From there, exploiting their/your position and staying ahead is often simple, but you need enough to work with - so at times you have to plan to tactically pick up cards just to get a higher ratio/concentration of good cards you can use vs shit cards you need to get rid of. Making a system of priorities is cool too - when cards that are powerful should or shouldn't be used in order to get the most use out of the card... When situations justify the use of certain powerful cards generally, and what situations provoke people to waste their good cards. It's essentially a system of priorities/situationism. There's also the "geostrategic" element I like taking into account too - where you work out (if you can't win a round), who you want to win a round in order to give you the most tactical advantage. Occasionally luck alone wins people games, but there's so much understated efficiency you can get.

I don't play any table-top games though. Such effort.


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## Frenetic Tranquility

Optimist Mind said:


> Covert luck in chess? How so? People making mistakes...?


Luck in if you have thoroughly prepared against the opening you are put against (it can play a significant role if there are hidden gambits that are not easily seen on the fly, would need to waste valuable clock time to crank through the iterations). Also, luck in just the opponent you are matched against, and if you are better prepared for their play style. Luck in your opponents state of mental acuity on the given day. Basically I consider anything that you can't directly be responsible for, that impacts your success in a game, to be luck (although the word can be subject to interpretation, I think if you don't include these examples as luck, then you can only say that luck does not exist at all).


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## an absurd man

I play poker.

Poker > chess + scrabble


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## TheRedKnight

I love chess all the more (I suppose I love it in theory more than I actually love _playing_ it), but when it comes down to it - I am far better at scrabble than chess. Not that I play either of them very often.


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## Belladonne

I'm ENTJ and used to play chess (very casually, never competed) as a kid. After a break of about 10 years, I started playing my ESFJ friend (who is really into it and on Chess.com practically every day) the other day. After about a few games, I was winning half the time. I think there might be something in this.


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## Bahburah

If only I wasn't dyslexic.


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## Bahburah

For real though I do find that I'm a good strategist but it's more when the opportunity falls in my lap. 

As to say I never try and form a strategy but seem to find myself in very strategic situations sometimes.


I'm into war games like warhamer (mostly for the lour) but I much prefer single character RPG's and playing around with all the stat and ability combinations.


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## silentconfusion

I like chess better, but I don't know if I'm any better at it than Scrabble. Chess seems like the ultimate game that is a system. It pleases me just to think about the game. Scrabble is random and seems pointless to me.


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## ENTP_Guy

I love chess... and I am awesome at it!


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## Planisphere

I do enjoy a good game of Scrabble, but I seem better at chess. One of the most epic moments of my high school life was taking on an INTJ friend and winning. He took about fifteen minutes to determine if he had really been checkmated, but it turned out that I had indeed succeeded. On the other hand, I lost to an ISTJ a month later (and an INFJ some time after that) - a loss that seems to have repeated itself with a few ISTPs as well. The REAL irony of all that, however, was how often I won against said ISTPs in first-person-shooter and real-time-strategy matches.

So even my abilities in playing competitive games apparently land between the J/P divide by this theory. I imagine quite a few Jungians are ready to tear me apart for that. Don't forget, however, that this theory of chess/scrabble is not likely to be true, so take it with a grain of salt - and leave the vinegar at home.


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## spookyfornever

No clue. I'm god at both.....when I get the opportunity to play. Noone I know wants to play


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