# Type Those Fictional Characters!



## d e c a d e n t

Jeremy8419 said:


> I would think Ne. If I had to guess, alpha NT.


Hm, Ne?


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## Jeremy8419

Distortions said:


> Hm, Ne?


Yeah. Off-the-wall, silly sexuality. Se would be more aggressive and passive standard lovers, not something goofy.


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## Entropic

To_august said:


> Agreed on EIE account. He does seem to be written to be Fe-Ni and other people are reacting to him as if he is doing Fe-Ni to them, but actor doesn't do any Fe. >< That adds to the character's mystery aura of course and I kept wondering, why people even reacted the way they did, if he wasn't doing anything to provoke the said reaction.


Yeah, I think his poor acting is what actually leads to the effect. He reminds me a lot of Christian Bale in this regard in the sense that it's impossible to really get a feeling for the character in question because it just feels so damn dead and more like a concept than a living, breathing human being, though Bale has in contrast, many more followers. Now I wonder if the reason why I could never really get into the feeling of any of his characters is because he must be one of the most over-rated actors in this decade, lol aka the reason why I could never connected to his characters is because he genuinely sucks as an actor but is getting hired because, who knows. 



crashbandicoot said:


> How do you type the red-head journalist in Hannibal ?
> I'm thinking SLE.


ESE.

@Word Dispenser I could actually see SEI for Niles too. One of those SEIs that try very, very hard to be logical and give off a logical impression though (well, Te superego lol).


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## Serpent

How would you type the pivotal characters in Game Of Thrones? I know there is already a thread for this but I have the feeling I'll get better answers here. Besides, I'm interested in them from a socionics perspective.


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## Entropic

ildiavolo said:


> How would you type the pivotal characters in Game Of Thrones? I know there is already a thread for this but I have the feeling I'll get better answers here. Besides, I'm interested in them from a socionics perspective.


From the top of my head:

Dany - ESI
Jorah - ILI
Jon Snow - gamma introvert (I'd claim ILI, seen ESI)
Ygritte - SEE
Tyrion - Fi-Te, I think IEE, seen ILI and ILE but definitely Fi-Te, anyway
Tywin - LSE
Cersei - SEE
Jaime - SLE
Robert - SLE
Ned - SLI
Catelyn - SEI
The Hound - Fi-Te introvert of sorts
Sam - ILE

There's more but can't remember right now. In short; GoT is full of gammas and a few stray betas and deltas. Almost no alphas and those that are are made into laughable caricatures for most of the part i.e. Sam.


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## Pinina

Entropic said:


> From the top of my head:
> 
> Dany - ESI
> Jorah - ILI
> Jon Snow - gamma introvert (I'd claim ILI, seen ESI)
> Ygritte - SEE
> Tyrion - Fi-Te, I think IEE, seen ILI and ILE but definitely Fi-Te, anyway
> Tywin - LSE
> Cersei - SEE
> Jaime - SLE
> Robert - SLE
> Ned - SLI
> Catelyn - SEI
> The Hound - Fi-Te introvert of sorts
> Sam - ILE
> 
> There's more but can't remember right now. In short; GoT is full of gammas and a few stray betas and deltas. Almost no alphas and those that are are made into laughable caricatures for most of the part i.e. Sam.


Why Fi-Te for Tyrion, gamma for Jon and LSE instead of LIE for Tywin?


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## Serpent

Entropic said:


> From the top of my head:
> 
> Dany - ESI
> Jorah - ILI
> Jon Snow - gamma introvert (I'd claim ILI, seen ESI)
> Ygritte - SEE
> Tyrion - Fi-Te, I think IEE, seen ILI and ILE but definitely Fi-Te, anyway
> Tywin - LSE
> Cersei - SEE
> Jaime - SLE
> Robert - SLE
> Ned - SLI
> Catelyn - SEI
> The Hound - Fi-Te introvert of sorts
> Sam - ILE
> 
> There's more but can't remember right now. In short; GoT is full of gammas and a few stray betas and deltas. Almost no alphas and those that are are made into laughable caricatures for most of the part i.e. Sam.


What do you think of Stannis, Littlefinger, Renly, Sansa and Varys? Also, interesting that Robert and Ned are extinguishing. It fits too. You get the sense that they're really close to each other but a significant piece of the puzzle is missing. Like, on a superficial note, they get along really well, but the conflict arises when they enter a room where their motivations and beliefs, basically their perspective on life, are brought into close inspection. 



> In trying to close the distance and get to know the other person closely, partners are very often frustrated and thwarted in their attempts by the other person's unexpected and out-of-sync reactions. Partners in these relations find it very hard to maintain an organized and stable relationship, due to the promising, yet continually frustrating interpersonal dynamic.


I can see the Hound being an ESI. Arya could be one as well.


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## Word Dispenser

Entropic said:


> Yeah, I think his poor acting is what actually leads to the effect. He reminds me a lot of Christian Bale in this regard in the sense that it's impossible to really get a feeling for the character in question because it just feels so damn dead and more like a concept than a living, breathing human being, though Bale has in contrast, many more followers. Now I wonder if the reason why I could never really get into the feeling of any of his characters is because he must be one of the most over-rated actors in this decade, lol aka the reason why I could never connected to his characters is because he genuinely sucks as an actor but is getting hired because, who knows.
> 
> @_Word Dispenser_ I could actually see SEI for Niles too. One of those SEIs that try very, very hard to be logical and give off a logical impression though (well, Te superego lol).


Agreed on his poor acting, haha. If he was a a really good actor, he might be able to pull off at least some _semblance _of the personality he's supposed to be embodying. But, then again, it wouldn't be the same show.

And _THANK YOU_ sir. Here I was, thinking I was possibly insane and had lost my touch. :laughing:


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## Entropic

Pinina said:


> Why Fi-Te for Tyrion, gamma for Jon and LSE instead of LIE for Tywin?


Because Tyrion walks around scolding people for their poor sense of ethics all the time, Joffrey and Jaime probably being the most primary examples. Incidentally, both of them are beta STs and therefore give little to no regard to Fi style of ethics which is exactly what is rubbing Tyrion the wrong way.

As for Jon, because he's Fi-Te and values Ni-Se. One reason he's so attracted to Ygritte is because she presents such strong Se to him which is presumably something he himself is lacking in some way. This is also why I think he's more likely an ILI over ESI that I've seen suggested, though my impression is based on the TV series rather than the books. In the TV series, he's also the one who keeps offering logical definitions and helps Ygritte with providing foresight. He also seems to showcase weird examples of Fi HA like how he cannot seem to reasonably choose between Ygritte and the Night's Watch; I think stronger use of Fi would honestly be able to tell what is ultimately deemed as the most important between the two.

And LSE for Tywin because Tywin honestly has no sense of foresight; a lot of his strategy is based on what is tried and true. 



ildiavolo said:


> What do you think of Stannis, Littlefinger, Renly, Sansa and Varys? Also, interesting that Robert and Ned are extinguishing. It fits too. You get the sense that they're really close to each other but a significant piece of the puzzle is missing. Like, on a superficial note, they get along really well, but the conflict arises when they enter a room where their motivations and beliefs, basically their perspective on life, are brought into close inspection.
> 
> 
> 
> I can see the Hound being an ESI. Arya could be one as well.


Stannis - SLI
Littlefinger - ILI
Renly some ethician, I don't remember him well, but he could be some Fe type from what I do remember
Sansa - SEI I reckon, or some very odd version of LII
Varys - IEI


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## Verity

ildiavolo said:


> How would you type the pivotal characters in Game Of Thrones? I know there is already a thread for this but I have the feeling I'll get better answers here. Besides, I'm interested in them from a socionics perspective.


Jon: ILI (Jon's whole problem stems from the fact that he focuses too much on the big picture and not the interpersonal stuff)
Arya: ESI
Sansa: SEI
Catelyn: ESE (Lacks the introspection needed to truly understand her own motivations.)
Theon: SEE
Tyrion: LIE
Jaime: SxE (Jaime suddenly got Fi out of nowhere in the middle of the series)
Cersei: ESI maybe, could see SEE
Tywin: LxE
Roose Bolton: ILI
Ramsay: SLE
Petyr: ILI
Daenerys: ESI
Jorah: SLI (Fi HA couldn't be more obvious)
Sandor: ESI
Bronn: LSI
Stannis: SLI
Davos: ESI
Melisandre: IxI
Varys: IEI
Renly: IEE
Olenna: LIE
Margaery: ESE
Loras: SEE (SEE on the show, SLI in the books)


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## Pinina

Verity said:


> Jon: ILI (Jon's whole problem stems from the fact that he focuses too much on the big picture and not the interpersonal stuff)
> Arya: ESI
> Sansa: SEI
> Catelyn: ESE (Lacks the introspection needed to truly understand her own motivations.)
> Theon: SEE
> Tyrion: LIE
> Jaime: SxE (Jaime suddenly got Fi out of nowhere in the middle of the series)
> Cersei: ESI maybe, could see SEE
> Tywin: LxE
> Roose Bolton: ILI
> Ramsay: SLE
> Petyr: ILI
> Daenerys: ESI
> Jorah: SLI (Fi HA couldn't be more obvious)
> Sandor: ESI
> Bronn: LSI
> Stannis: SLI
> Davos: ESI
> Melisandre: IxI
> Varys: IEI
> Renly: IEE
> Olenna: LIE
> Margaery: ESE
> Loras: SEE (SEE on the show, SLI in the books)


Why is Tyrion LIE? 
Also I'm not sure of Jon, but that's from an MBTI perspective, so I'll just leave that.


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## Verity

Pinina said:


> Why is Tyrion LIE?
> Also I'm not sure of Jon, but that's from an MBTI perspective, so I'll just leave that.


CBA to write it all again, read the posts written by me and @The_Wanderer over here:
http://personalitycafe.com/guess-type/98346-game-thrones-character-types-297.html
It's not from a socionics perspective, but I think he is the same type anyway.
Please reply here if you disagree with me.


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## Entropic

Verity said:


> Jorah: SLI (Fi HA couldn't be more obvious)


Why Si over Ni?



> Davos: ESI


Why not EII?



> Melisandre: IxI


IEI-Fe



> Olenna: LIE


LSE



> Margaery: ESE


EIE

Imo.


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## Serpent

I think the guy who constantly argued with Daenerys about the fighting pits could be ESE. I wonder what Bran is. He's rarely mentioned and no one seems to have arrived at a definite conclusion for his type.


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## Verity

Entropic said:


> Why Si over Ni?


Compared to other Ni-doms, he doesn't seem to have much foresight and seems to deal with things as they come. He sees to Dany's needs such as reminding her to drink and eat. He uses a northern sword despite it being much less effective against unarmored foes because he is familiar with it, when Dany questions some brutal tradition he tells her the purpose is because it's always been that way. I guess I can see ILI, but SLI fits better in my book.




> Why not EII?


It was my initial thought, but I don't think an Se-PoLR would try to physically assault Melisandre because she provoked him.



> IEI-Fe


Yeah, I can see that when I think of the scenes she shares with Davos, lots of emotional manipulation.



> LSE


Why? Her thinking seems extraverted.




> EIE


Why Ni over Si?




ildiavolo said:


> I wonder what Bran is. He's rarely mentioned and no one seems to have arrived at a definite conclusion for his type.


I think he's an ESI.


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## Entropic

Verity said:


> Compared to other Ni-doms, he doesn't seem to have much foresight and seems to deal with things as they come. He sees to Dany's needs such as reminding her to drink and eat. He uses a northern sword despite it being much less effective against unarmored foes because he is familiar with it, when Dany questions some brutal tradition he tells her the purpose is because it's always been that way. I guess I can see ILI, but SLI fits better in my book.


Not sure I find those arguments very palpable; being unable to use a different sword despite its inefficiency could equally be chalked up to poor sensation in general, especially that of 1D, that is, lack of experience in a sensory area leads to complete lack of ability to deal with the situation at hand, because one only learns from experience. Similarly, saying that's how it is could equally be Ni because socionics suggests Ni isn't just about the future but also about the past, whereas Si is about the present. Similarly, why does he remind Dany to eat and drink? Is it because he foresees that her lack of eating and drinking will result in future weakness which will make it impossible for her to deal with the coming tasks at hand?



> It was my initial thought, but I don't think an Se-PoLR would try to physically assault Melisandre because she provoked him.


Sure, he's forthright, but I don't see him as a negativist. Not every EII is going to be afraid of conflict. EII-D subtypes which I think he is, will be very indignant and strong in their values, which is exactly what I see him doing.



> Why? Her thinking seems extraverted.


LSE has Te base too. 



> Why Ni over Si?


Because I think she's an aristocrat and I see her expressing foresight in ways Olenna doesn't, for example. She has ideas of who she thinks she's going to be like in the future and she's very strong in making that idea reality. I don't see her expressing alpha values much of friendship and togetherness in a comfortable atmosphere as I see ESEs do.


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## Verity

I'm very much a layman still when it comes to socionics. I still have trouble considering all the dichotomies when typing. I see your point and I can agree about Margaery and Davos. Still not sure on Jorah though, for some reason I have trouble seeing him as an Ni-dom but that might be because the show is filled with much more stereotypical Ni-doms such as Petyr, Varys, Roose, etc which kinda makes the water diluted. 

About Olenna: I misread LSE as SLE lol.


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## Entropic

Verity said:


> I'm very much a layman still when it comes to socionics. I still have trouble considering all the dichotomies when typing. I see your point and I can agree about Margaery and Davos. Still not sure on Jorah though, for some reason I have trouble seeing him as an Ni-dom but that might be because the show is filled with much more stereotypical Ni-doms such as Petyr, Varys, Roose, etc which kinda makes the water diluted.
> 
> About Olenna: I misread LSE as SLE lol.


No, I definitely see why you consider SLI for Jorah. There may be something I haven't seen about him in later seasons because I kind of dropped the show around season 3, that I may not be privy and would change my perception of him. Based on what I did see, ILI makes sense though.

As for Petyr, he's such a caricature it's almost laughable I can't even take it seriously, lol. I actually don't relate to him all that much because ironically, he's too Te for me. I'd type him as an ILI-Te. Compare to Jon for example, who I think is an ILI-Ni.


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## Verity

Entropic said:


> No, I definitely see why you consider SLI for Jorah. There may be something I haven't seen about him in later seasons because I kind of dropped the show around season 3, that I may not be privy and would change my perception of him. Based on what I did see, ILI makes sense though.
> 
> As for Petyr, he's such a caricature it's almost laughable I can't even take it seriously, lol. I actually don't relate to him all that much because ironically, he's too Te for me. I'd type him as an ILI-Te. Compare to Jon for example, who I think is an ILI-Ni.


Yeah, most of my typings may be a bit wierd since the show and the books are very entangled in my recollection of the characters. For example Tyrion's use of Te when acting as Hand is much more prominent in the books. That could be why I have trouble seeing Jorah as intuitive.

I was really on the fence about Petyr between ILI-Te and LIE-Ni. Funny how in the books he's described as the guy that no one would suspect, yet on the show he acts like the caricature of an evil mastermind all the time.


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## Pinina

Verity said:


> CBA to write it all again, read the posts written by me and @The_Wanderer over here:
> http://personalitycafe.com/guess-type/98346-game-thrones-character-types-297.html
> It's not from a socionics perspective, but I think he is the same type anyway.
> Please reply here if you disagree with me.


Oh, okey. Yea, I saw that discussion, I just didn't know it's the same person. Sorry. I'll check it at some point.


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## westlose

Jeremy8419 said:


> Is Goku's mask being goofy? Or is Goku's mask being forceful? That's the argument for SEE versus IEE.
> 
> Sword Art Online
> Kirito: EII
> Asuna: LSE
> Smith Chick: SLI
> His sister: IEI


Isn't Kirito an Se-ego? He's very action oriented and is very talented when it comes to reach his goal and overcome difficulties. Also he looks like a Ti-Fe valuer, building his own understanding of the world and trying to interact emotionally with people. What about LSI?

On the other hand Asuna looks very Fi, having a strong will and strong opinions and values. She's more focused on what is right to her. ESI seems good. 

I can't say anything about others characters, I don't remember them well.


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## Wolfskralle

Verity said:


> Lydia: I'd rather see SLI or even ILI than LII.


Well I figured she has to be an Ne creative and Se PoLR type, because of her distinctive physical weirdness and being space cadet, yet still a very smart person xD if that makes any sense. She just has something "ethereal" that I associate with Se PoLR's. I thought LII, and if that isn't it then EII. Why do you think she has Fe as PoLR?



> Badger: ESE, he's an alpha, and not intuitive.


Well yes, after rethinking it you're right.



> Ted: Seems like Fi-PoLR, ILE maybe


Maybe. I thought Fi creative and Fe demonstrative cause he was able to skillfully manipulate other people just to reach his ends (instrumental use of ethics > as a way to implement base program - the leading function). Maybe I missed his Fi PoLR moments.




> Hank: LSE(does not have Fi-PoLR.)


I think this dude is like a poster boy of Beta males. I can't see Delta at all, sorry. 



> Marie: ESE-Fe


Seems legit.



> Gale: LII-Ne.


Could be it, yeah.



> I'd like to add Saul, who I think is an obvious ILE(Funny since he's an IEE in BCS).


Agreed.


And I'd like to add sth about that Jarmush movie you've posted before. It's been a while since I saw it, and I wasn't really that into Socionics at that time, but let's try.
Main character seemed like a Fi-Te (or Te-Fi) type, introverted and negativist. Which leaves ESI or ILI; out of these two probably the latter - he was in state of constant inertia and so on, not really a sensor.
Eve I don't rember clearly, but if we interpret that whole story figuratively, she might be his "energy source" and his grounding force. Which leads us to SEE or SLE typing. Their relationship kinda had Ni-Se chemistry if I remember it correctly.
Eve cousin - ESE. Conflicting relation with protagonist.
Great movie BTW, very atmospheric, yet not cheesy or exaggerated.


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## Jeremy8419

westlose said:


> Isn't Kirito an Se-ego? He's very action oriented and is very talented when it comes to reach his goal and overcome difficulties. Also he looks like a Ti-Fe valuer, building his own understanding of the world and trying to interact emotionally with people. What about LSI?
> 
> On the other hand Asuna looks very Fi, having a strong will and strong opinions and values. She's more focused on what is right to her. ESI seems good.
> 
> I can't say anything about others characters, I don't remember them well.


He has genius level intellect in the series, and some of what you speak of is a result of such.

If you pay attention, he is fairly traumatic towards real conflict, as in his inability to assert himself to his best friend in first episode and regrets basically forever his choice to set the boundary he did that day, and inability to assert his boundaries throughout the series, causing him to be a loner rather than face conflict with teammates. Only with Asuna does he learn how to healthily manage Se enough to socialize. Ni- is focused on preventing mistakes of the past. His entire unconscious focus in the series is terror of nor preventing mistakes such as with his guild that died. He does however, have large insights into the human condition and the psychological distances. He starts out as an unhealthy EII, and through Asuna, is able to become a healthy EII, and hold weight for the well-being of others.

Asuna is near verbatim some descriptions of female LSE. Focuses on removing discomfort for Te, with a demonstrative/natural outward strength.


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## Jeremy8419

Edit: Duplicate post.


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## Verity

Wolfskralle said:


> Well I figured she has to be an Ne creative and Se PoLR type, because of her distinctive physical weirdness and being space cadet, yet still a very smart person xD if that makes any sense. She just has something "ethereal" that I associate with Se PoLR's. I thought LII, and if that isn't it then EII. Why do you think she has Fe as PoLR?


I think she belongs to a serious quadra, and from what I recall she had real trouble responding to Todd's use of Fe. Her Te seemed too strong for an EII, but it's a possibility.




> Maybe. I thought Fi creative and Fe demonstrative cause he was able to skillfully manipulate other people just to reach his ends (instrumental use of ethics > as a way to implement base program - the leading function). Maybe I missed his Fi PoLR moments.


Yeah. You're probably right. I just remember that he didn't care at all if it was right or wrong to spend the money. In my head that means Fi-PoLR because I'm biased.




> I think this dude is like a poster boy of Beta males. I can't see Delta at all, sorry.


He absolutely acts like an SLE socially. But I mean, what motivates him throughout the series is never really an Fe-influenced concern for others, but rather his own personal sense of right and wrong... :/




> And I'd like to add sth about that Jarmush movie you've posted before. It's been a while since I saw it, and I wasn't really that into Socionics at that time, but let's try.
> Main character seemed like a Fi-Te (or Te-Fi) type, introverted and negativist. Which leaves ESI or ILI; out of these two probably the latter - he was in state of constant inertia and so on, not really a sensor.
> Eve I don't rember clearly, but if we interpret that whole story figuratively, she might be his "energy source" and his grounding force. Which leads us to SEE or SLE typing. Their relationship kinda had Ni-Se chemistry if I remember it correctly.
> Eve cousin - ESE. Conflicting relation with protagonist.
> Great movie BTW, very atmospheric, yet not cheesy or exaggerated.


I think you might be right. I think Tilda Swinton with her "ethereal qualities" makes the character seem more removed from reality than she actually is and that's why I leaned towards EIE.


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## westlose

Jeremy8419 said:


> If you pay attention, he is fairly traumatic towards real conflict, as in his inability to assert himself to his best friend in first episode and regrets basically forever his choice to set the boundary he did that day, and inability to assert his boundaries throughout the series, causing him to be a loner rather than face conflict with teammates. *Only with Asuna does he learn how to healthily manage Se enough to socialize*.


Fear of conflicts and difficulties to assert himself? I really don't remember him this way. He seems to be pretty comfortable with conflicts, he seems to be the one who solve them.
I've seen the first episode again I don't think that he has trouble asserting himself. He just accepts to help him. Being assertive doesn't mean being selfish. Also, when his friend ask him to join a group, he has no trouble denying the offer. I just think that he's somewhat indifferent about things in general.
And the part in bold in the quote would rather look like Fe DS I guess. Se isn't really about socializing?



> His entire unconscious focus in the series is terror of nor preventing mistakes such as with his guild that died.


Well, that's true. That was really traumatic for him, but that would be the same for all sociotypes I guess. I think that any people in his situation will also be disconcerted.

I can see why you think that he's EII, but that doesn't really fit imo.




> Asuna is near verbatim some descriptions of female LSE. Focuses on removing discomfort for Te, with a demonstrative/natural outward strength.


I give you the benefit of the doubt because I don't remember her that much. But she's probably a Gamma/Delta.


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## Jeremy8419

westlose said:


> Fear of conflicts and difficulties to assert himself? I really don't remember him this way. He seems to be pretty comfortable with conflicts, he seems to be the one who solve them.
> I've seen the first episode again I don't think that he has trouble asserting himself. He just accepts to help him. Being assertive doesn't mean being selfish. Also, when his friend ask him to join a group, he has no trouble denying the offer. I just think that he's somewhat indifferent about things in general.
> And the part in bold in the quote would rather look like Fe DS I guess. Se isn't really about socializing?
> 
> Well, that's true. That was really traumatic for him, but that would be the same for all sociotypes I guess. I think that any people in his situation will also be disconcerted.
> 
> I can see why you think that he's EII, but that doesn't really fit imo.
> 
> I give you the benefit of the doubt because I don't remember her that much. But she's probably a Gamma/Delta.


"Also, when his friend ask him to join a group, he has no trouble denying the offer."
This is what I was referring to. He has guilt over this for the entirety of SAO. It's why he always acts weird to the guy, who is basically his only friend for like a year, and the guy even remarks about him not being able to get over it.

Well, he does spend a great deal of time fighting, but it is almost always npc monsters. In the situation where he was forced to kill someone attempting to murder him, he was apparently the only one who felt guilt to the point of nearly developing a complex about it. He was also known for being a rarity due to being a "solo player," which largely rules out alpha/beta, who would more likely than not have been guilded. All of his relationships throughout the series are close-range and developed in one-on-one ways. Was stuck in a video game for like 2 years and socializes in a group maybe once or twice. Solo hunts non-stop and gives away all his money regularly. Apparently eats plain bread regularly before he teams with asuna and loves someone making food for him. Has no interest in stature. Has probably the most gentle nature of any character in the series when dealing with others. Spends his real life on humanitarian VR work. Extremely reticent on all accounts.

Asuna is pretty much the atypical perfect-rational pristine rule-following girl that seems oblivious to human relationships outside of cut-and-dry robotic pleasentries and comes across as de-fact-o B even though she is sweet. Apparently had zero friends prior to SAO, similar to Kirito. Works to create pleasant, comfortable, and efficient home, seemingly taking care of Kirito's health and practicality as though he is a child and they both enjoy such. Kirito and her are what EII/LSE dual relationship is, given the male is the EII, and you know... Magical video game world conspiracies and all lol.


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## Word Dispenser

Omg. Someone do Stargate. :kitteh:

Okay, I will!

O'Neill: LSI
Daniel Jackson: Ne in the ego seems possible. He's always getting on O'Neill's nerves because of said man's Ne-PoLR. Ti valuing, I think. Alpha NT?
Teal'c: SLI seems veryyy likely.
Carter: Te-Fi valuing.

There's some kind of cognitive conflict going on between O'Neill and Jackson, from what I remember.


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## Wolfskralle

Verity said:


> I think she belongs to a serious quadra, and from what I recall she had real trouble responding to Todd's use of Fe. Her Te seemed too strong for an EII, but it's a possibility.


I thought he had used Se on her. He had (has?) been too pushy and so on. Though it's been a while since I watched it too. So you may be right here. 
PS Fuck english grammar :th_blush:



> He absolutely acts like an SLE socially. But I mean, what motivates him throughout the series is never really an Fe-influenced concern for others, but rather his own personal sense of right and wrong... :/


I think Fe equating concern about others in an MBTI concept. In Socionics this would be Fi, if anything. Fe is mostly about creating and maintaining social atmosphere, group jokes and so on, which is what was Hank good at. 
E.g.

Fe Hank in a non-Fe valuing environment :laughing:


* *


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## To_august

Word Dispenser said:


> Omg. Someone do Stargate. :kitteh:
> 
> Okay, I will!
> 
> O'Neill: LSI
> Daniel Jackson: Ne in the ego seems possible. He's always getting on O'Neill's nerves because of said man's Ne-PoLR. Ti valuing, I think. Alpha NT?
> Teal'c: SLI seems veryyy likely.
> Carter: Te-Fi valuing.
> 
> There's some kind of cognitive conflict going on between O'Neill and Jackson, from what I remember.


I saw only the movie and very small bits from the series here and there 

From what I remember:
Jack O'Neil - Beta ST
Daniel Jackson - LII
Jackson's wife (forgot her name, Shauri or something like that) - SEI or IEI
Ra - not sure about this God-like entity, but prolly Gamma NT


----------



## Verity

Wolfskralle said:


> I thought he had used Se on her. He had (has?) been too pushy and so on. Though it's been a while since I watched it too. So you may be right here.
> PS Fuck english grammar :th_blush:


Maybe he did, but I can't see him as an Se-valuing type. Just compare him to his uncle. He's clearly an Fe-dom or aux imo with valued Si. From what I remember she's quite disgusted with him. But it's kinda pointless to argue since neither of us seems to remember any concrete examples.



> I think Fe equating concern about others in an MBTI concept. In Socionics this would be Fi, if anything. Fe is mostly about creating and maintaining social atmosphere, group jokes and so on, which is what was Hank good at.
> E.g.


No, I don't mean that Fe-valuers are more concerned about others, but I think they are more influenced by the social atmosphere, and if the social atmosphere seems sad, the Fe-type is likely to "adjust" their attitude to fit the atmosphere, not just stomp through it like a bulldozer, which you see Hank do a couple of times. Just wanted to clarify that.
Anyway, you've convinced me. I often find that I confuse demonstrative with dominant.:/


----------



## Word Dispenser

Verity said:


> Anyway, you've convinced me. I often find that I confuse demonstrative with dominant.:/


Way easier to do than you'd think.

I used to think Tony Stark/Ironman (From the films) was an ILE, but he's quite likely an LIE.


----------



## Verity

Word Dispenser said:


> Way easier to do than you'd think.
> 
> I used to think Tony Stark/Ironman (From the films) was an ILE, but he's quite likely an LIE.


Same thing for me with Tyrion in A Song of Ice and Fire.


----------



## Serpent

Fried Eggz said:


> I wouldn't describe Vegeta and Goku as types.
> 
> Vegeta seems to have weak, but valued Fi. Lead is rational and definitely not ethical. Se (Beta style) is strong and valued. Fe is vulnerable. Decent Ni. Ne is in the superego.
> 
> Goku: Se (gamma style) lead. Strong, valued Fe. Weak, unvalued Fi. Decent Ne. Superego Ni.


I think overall, when you consider his most noticeable aspects, Goku is an SLE. Se is obvious. I think he's really a logician. That's clear from the way he approaches things. The whole do-goody thing was just something the English dub perpetuated by changing the script to make him more like Superman. In the original, he stops Krillin from killing Vegeta (someone who was responsible for the death of almost everyone Goku considered a friend) because he wants to fight him again, not because he values mercy or giving someone a second chance. He jeopardizes the safety of countless people by letting Frieza transform simply because he wants an enjoyable experience. He's infamous for his insensitivity and weak understanding of ethics. A guy who only cares about food and fighting, a gross simplification but it describes the essence of the character, really. And then there's the perception of him as a terrible father. I see Fi PoLR. A great example of this is when Piccolo (mostly typed as ILI and I see no reason to dispute that) admonishes Goku for making his son fight Cell.


----------



## Verity

What about the protagonist of the movie _Drive_?





I'm thinking SLI, but it made me wonder if the silent and stoic hero archetype* is *the SLI, since it also seems to fit The Man with No Name or Max from Mad Max for example.


----------



## To_august

Verity said:


> What about the protagonist of the movie _Drive_?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm thinking SLI, but it made me wonder if the silent and stoic hero archetype* is *the SLI, since it also seems to fit The Man with No Name or Max from Mad Max for example.


I've been thinking LSI, since I haven't seen Te in the guy. He is kind of a mystery. Or maybe just a character with an untapped potential. Where did he came from... where did he go... is unknown. That should be blamed on the screenwriter though.

Also that scene in the elevator - now we're enjoying the very romantic kiss in slow-motion and second away I'm tearing the bad guy apart with my bare hands savouring the vividness of action - seems to me as being Beta idea of romantic dynamics.


----------



## Verity

To_august said:


> I've been thinking LSI, since I haven't seen Te in the guy. He is kind of a mystery. Or maybe just a character with an untapped potential. Where did he came from... where did he go... is unknown. That should be blamed on the screenwriter though.
> 
> Also that scene in the elevator - now we're enjoying the very romantic kiss in slow-motion and second away I'm tearing the bad guy apart with my bare hands savouring the vividness of action - seems to me as being Beta idea of romantic dynamics.


I think all of that says more about the director/writing than it does about the character. His personality is diminished because he's supposed to be a certain archetype thrown into a different kind of archetypal story, a story where the hero is also his own enemy. And I wouldn't say that's necessarily a bad thing. I see Te in every single thing he says and I don't see valued Ti/Fe. Look at how he interacts with other people, now does that seem more like Fe-DS or Fe-PoLR to you?

By the way I think that Irene's husband from the movie is an SLE, and the contrast between the two men should be apparent.


----------



## To_august

Verity said:


> I think all of that says more about the director/writing than it does about the character. His personality is diminished because he's supposed to be a certain archetype thrown into a different kind of archetypal story, a story where the hero is also his own enemy. And I wouldn't say that's necessarily a bad thing. I see Te in every single thing he says and I don't see valued Ti/Fe. Look at how he interacts with other people, now does that seem more like Fe-DS or Fe-PoLR to you?
> 
> By the way I think that Irene's husband from the movie is an SLE, and the contrast between the two men should be apparent.


Sure. I just think the way movie is done has that Beta-appealing vibe.

Driver is 1D Fe. That's for sure, but I don't see particular indications for it to be PoLR or dual-seeking. He is silent most of the time, doesn't like parties apparently (or maybe only parties involving celebration of his loved one's husband return) and prefers to mind his own business, but it can be true for 1D Fe in general (as well as for introversion in general).

I don't remember Irene's husband. It's been a while since I saw the movie... 

I can see SLI, but think character wasn't well developed.

Btw, why Te? He didn't say much during the course of the move. Mostly short phrases. The longest he talked I think was at the beginning when he described the rules of his work, that are pretty much rigid personal structure which he is unwilling to compromise - one deviation from the course and he quits. This is something Ji base and Ne PoLR can result in. I think Te creative should've been more flexible.


----------



## Verity

To_august said:


> Btw, why Te? He didn't say much during the course of the move. Mostly short phrases. The longest he talked I think was at the beginning when he described the rules of his work, that are pretty much rigid personal structure which he is unwilling to compromise - one deviation from the course and he quits. This is something Ji base and Ne PoLR can result in. I think Te creative should've been more flexible.


I think that could just be Ti-demonstrative. Maybe he's doing it that way because it's efficient and risk-minimizing, and therefore there is no plausible reason to ever break the rules. Focus on efficient methods backed up by logical rules=Creative Te. Subjectively logical rules without an efficient purpose=Ti base. If I'm wrong please correct me.

I can see what you mean about the character not being well-developed, and I think that's kinda the purpose. But I still think you can see a preference for Te/Fi>Ti/Fe. That Fi really comes out when the movie starts ramping up(When Standard is assaulted in the garage). What I mean with speaking in Te is that everything he says is very factual and nothing is unnecessary. 

_______________________


For perhaps the best example of an SLI in a movie imo:





It's like watching a movie about my father... Uncanny.


----------



## Word Dispenser

Spongebob!

I think Spongebob's an ESE, Patrick is SEI, Mr. Crabs LSE, and Squidward ILI. :kitteh:

Plankton might be LIE.


----------



## Entropic

Verity said:


> I mostly agree, although why SLI for Ethan? I thought ESI or ILI. (he's definitely the character I relate to the most, lol)
> 
> Also, Sembene(Sir Malcolm's servant) is an EII imo


I can't see ESI for him. Compare him and Vanessa. He could be an ILI but I SLI makes more sense because he doesn't actually showcase much intuition outside of what's provided for being a supernatural. The way he seemed to be energized with the egyptologist made more sense for duality also. I am not sure he would react the same way Dorian would to Angelique for example. The way they met was classical SEE - ILI duality. He definitely demonstrates Fi HA though, very stereotypically sometimes, like when trying to save Vanessa from the possession but how he can't approach her because he doesn't know how to make himself closer. 

I'll probably get a better feel for him in season 3 since his backstory is revealed in it. Not quite sure what I think of Sembane, except he's an Fi type. 

And yes, he's very relatable because he's the most grounded in the series.


----------



## Verity

Entropic said:


> I can't see ESI for him. Compare him and Vanessa. He could be an ILI but I SLI makes more sense because he doesn't actually showcase much intuition outside of what's provided for being a supernatural. The way he seemed to be energized with the egyptologist made more sense for duality also. I am not sure he would react the same way Dorian would to Angelique for example. The way they met was classical SEE - ILI duality. He definitely demonstrates Fi HA though, very stereotypically sometimes, like when trying to save Vanessa from the possession but how he can't approach her because he doesn't know how to make himself closer.
> 
> I'll probably get a better feel for him in season 3 since his backstory is revealed in it. Not quite sure what I think of Sembane, except he's an Fi type.
> 
> And yes, he's very relatable because he's the most grounded in the series.


Yeah. I'm having trouble with SLI since I haven't seen anything suggesting the negatives of inferior Ne. While not an argument, it's also a fairly common trope of an Ni-ego being turned into a monster enslaved to it's primal desires, such as in _The Incredible Hulk_, or _Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde_, imo serving as a metaphor for inferior/DS Se. Anyway, great catch on enneagram 8w9.


----------



## Entropic

Verity said:


> Yeah. I'm having trouble with SLI since I haven't seen anything suggesting the negatives of inferior Ne. While not an argument, it's also a fairly common trope of an Ni-ego being turned into a monster enslaved to it's primal desires, such as in _The Incredible Hulk_, or _Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde_, it being used as a metaphor for inferior/DS Se. Anyway, great catch on enneagram 8w9.


Though equally, where is his inferior Se? The beast within trope doesn't seem explicit to weak sensation to me. Naruto is an ESE but has it for example. The guy lived a life as a mercenary before trying out the show biz, while granted, that's also pretty stereotype 8.

I think most people would think he's a 2 or a 9 at first glance, because he's pretty chill and such. He's just fairly healthy though he seems to disintegrate as the series goes on.


----------



## Verity

Entropic said:


> Though equally, where is his inferior Se? The beast within trope doesn't seem explicit to weak sensation to me. Naruto is an ESE but has it for example. The guy lived a life as a mercenary before trying out the show biz, while granted, that's also pretty stereotype 8.


Hence why I wrote that it wasn't really an argument, just food for thought.


----------



## Wisteria

Since I asked, my guesses for DA origins are:

Morrigan - LIE 
Alistair - Fi ego type
Leliana - SEI
Sten - SLI
Zevran - SEE


----------



## Felipe

jennalee said:


> Since I asked, my guesses for DA origins are:
> 
> Morrigan - LIE
> Alistair - Fi ego type
> Leliana - SEI
> Sten - SLI
> Zevran - SEE


What type you think is Oghren? He's funny as hell. Also, I'm curious as to why you think Zevran is SEE, I think he's LSI.


----------



## Wisteria

Felipe said:


> What type you think is Oghren? He's funny as hell. Also, I'm curious as to why you think Zevran is SEE, I think he's LSI.


He's funny but also kind of disgusting  Based on this dialogue, he seems Ne. Maybe a really inappropriate ILE? not sure though, because Ti doesn't show, but neither does Fi. 
I watched one of these with Zevran (and Leliana) to jog my memory and Ti makes more sense actually. He is aware of the different sets of criteria and laws that she would have in the culture of orlais, but he doesn't show any understanding of the values they use or the sensitivity towards others. I think SLE with a Ti subtype perhaps, because Fi PoLR makes more sense than Ne. Definitely beta ST though.


----------



## Verity

Improved my _Black Sails_ typings a bit:


Verity said:


> Charles Vane: ESI-SeSLI actually and a great example of enneagram 8
> Max: IEI 3w4
> Anne Bonney: ESI Possibly a 2w1
> Billy Bones: xLI Leaning towards ILI 6w5





Felipe said:


> What type you think is Oghren?


Oghren is an LSE imo. Seems like he has Ne Hidden Agenda.


----------



## Felipe

Verity said:


> Oghren is an LSE imo. Seems like he has Ne Hidden Agenda.


I changed my mind about Leliana, I'll go with your IEI typing for her now that I think of her storytelling, she seems more Ni


----------



## Verity

Felipe said:


> I changed my mind about Leliana, I'll go with your IEI typing for her now that I think of her storytelling, she seems more Ni


Having watched a few of those videos, Zevran does seem like an SLE, and their banter is pretty Beta Aggressor/Victim.

Oh, and I forgot Shale. Any ideas? At first I thought SLI-Te since she and Sten has this identical thing going, but now I'm not sure at all, she does seem to value Se.


----------



## Word Dispenser

@jennalee: AAahh.. I finally played Dragonage Origins recently. Ah, Zevran. I _adore _him. But, yeah, Fi-PoLR seems likely. Probably _why _I adore him-- Because I completely understand that particular psychological weakness. 

It's clear that he doesn't really know how to place people in terms of relations, and doesn't know how to deal with intimacy. He passes it off lightly and jokingly. Perfect example of how I deflect intense situations.

And it's not until you reassure him that he can finally relax. I can relate. 

My problem is... If I really happen to think someone is the bee's knees-- Knowing how to ask them how I'm doing, and what I can do to keep things going along smoothly, is really difficult. 

There is a deep-seated, psychological weakness-type-terror that I'm going to do something wrong and not be able to fix it. Basically, I require constant reassurance that everything is okay, and if I don't get that, I will either ignore it and possibly end up neglectful, in order to not deal with the discomfort of it, or I will become an annoying nag, asking repeatedly if I'm doing okay. Most likely the former, even if I'm tempted to go with the latter. Or variants of both, lol.

That said, I don't know whether he's an ILE or an SLE. He seems to be very sensory-based, though, if he _is _an ILE.


----------



## Immolate

Verity said:


> Oh, and I forgot Shale. Any ideas? At first I thought SLI-Te since she and Sten has this identical thing going, but now I'm not sure at all, she does seem to value Se.







I love Shale. I would have guessed Se over Si but I can't make arguments about her personality with any certainty. She does seem to get along best with Sten.

Has anyone played through Inquisition? I'm interested in Dorian's personality:


* *


----------



## Wisteria

lets mosey said:


> Has anyone played through Inquisition? I'm interested in Dorian's personality:


I get the impression he is an IEE for reasons I can't really explain. Based on what I have read about Ne though, Dorian seems to fit the Ne ego descriptions quite accurately. Do you have any ideas about the other characters? I was going to ask about inquisition but I figured no one has played the game yet.


----------



## Immolate

jennalee said:


> I get the impression he is an IEE for reasons I can't really explain. Based on what I have read about Ne though, Dorian seems to fit the Ne ego descriptions quite accurately. Do you have any ideas about the other characters? I was going to ask about inquisition but I figured no one has played the game yet.


I mostly see people suggesting ILE as his type, but my impression of his personality is Fi over Ti, especially in his agonizing over his identity and the moral state of his country. I've thought IEE for a while, but he's one of my favorite characters so I figured I'd ask for an unbiased opinion. I've recently wondered if SEE is possible.

For the most part, I think:

Iron Bull, SLE
Cassandra, SLI
Blackwall, I don't care about this guy
Sera, SEE
Varric, ILE (?)
Solas, LII
Cole, EII (?)
Vivienne, I want to say some kind of beta


----------



## Word Dispenser

lets mosey said:


> I mostly see people suggesting ILE as his type, but my impression of his personality is Fi over Ti, especially in his agonizing over his identity and the moral state of his country. I've thought IEE for a while, but he's one of my favorite characters so I figured I'd ask for an unbiased opinion. I've recently wondered if SEE is possible.
> 
> For the most part, I think:
> 
> Iron Bull, SLE
> Cassandra, SLI
> Blackwall, I don't care about this guy
> Sera, SEE
> Varric, ILE (?)
> Solas, LII
> Cole, EII (?)
> Vivienne, I want to say some kind of beta


People who generally agree with my choices being: Sera, Varric, and Iron Bull. Who are my go-to team. xD


----------



## Verity

lets mosey said:


> I love Shale. I would have guessed Se over Si but I can't make arguments about her personality with any certainty. She does seem to get along best with Sten.


I think she's an ESI now actually. Se-ego seems probable, and she stresses functionality and efficiency in such an immature way that Te-DS is likely. SEE is also possible I guess. 



lets mosey said:


> I mostly see people suggesting ILE as his type, but my impression of his personality is Fi over Ti, especially in his agonizing over his identity and the moral state of his country. I've thought IEE for a while, but he's one of my favorite characters so I figured I'd ask for an unbiased opinion. I've recently wondered if SEE is possible.





> Varric, ILE (?)


I haven't played inquisition, but I've noticed that people tend to type all enneagram 7s as ILE for some reason. I think Varric for example is an LIE 7w8, at least in DA2. Maybe it's the same for Dorian, albeit IEE?


----------



## Immolate

Word Dispenser said:


> People who generally agree with my choices being: Sera, Varric, and Iron Bull. Who are my go-to team. xD


Dorian, Cassandra, and Bull for me 

I wanted to like Sera but I mostly just liked the bees.



Verity said:


> I haven't played inquisition, but I've noticed that people tend to type all enneagram 7s as ILE for some reason. I think Varric for example is an LIE 7w8, at least in DA2. Maybe it's the same for Dorian, albeit IEE?


Yeah, I've noticed that too, although I haven't thought too deeply about Dorian's enneagram type to say it's the case with him. He fits the pattern, though. I hadn't stopped to consider LIE for Varric, but I do think it's a more appropriate fit than ILE, especially after some of his development in Inquisition.


----------



## Verity

My IEE mother finally managed to get me to watch her favorite film, _Gladiator_(I wonder why that is...).

Maximus: SLI
Commodus: EIE
Lucilla: ESI
Proximo: LSE
Juba: SLI maybe
Marcus Aurelius: EII
Senator Gracchus: LIE maybe

I liked it very much, and it seems like one of those defining movies for it's time. Very Delta overall.


----------



## Wisteria

Inside Out anyone? I know it doesn't fully make sense to type the characters but I think some of them do use functions in some way. Because I was thinking, isn't Joy the epitome of Fe? And in contrast Disgust was very much an introverted type who highly values Si and/or Fi. The closest functions that aligns with the other characters is something like: Anger (Se base), Fear (Si base) and Sadness (Introvert).


----------



## Felipe

jennalee said:


> Inside Out anyone? I know it doesn't fully make sense to type the characters but I think some of them do use functions in some way. Because I was thinking, isn't Joy the epitome of Fe? And in contrast Disgust was very much an introverted type who highly values Si and/or Fi. The closest functions that aligns with the other characters is something like: Anger (Se base), Fear (Si base) and Sadness (Introvert).


I think in this case is easier to type them by enneagram. But if I was to type in socionics I'd say:

Anger: SLE
Joy: IEE
Sadness: IEI
Disgust: SLI
Fear: ESE

Ennea:

Anger: 1w9
Joy: 7w6
Sadness: 4w5
Disgust: 9w8
Fear: 6w7

@jennalee I changed my mind on some of the characters


----------



## SheWolf

Ooooohh a fictional characters thread! Yes, I live for this! 

Batman characters are where I strive the most. Anyone got opinions?


----------



## Wisteria

Felipe said:


> @jennalee I changed my mind on some of the characters


Ah, I thought Disgust was an introvert indeed. Debating between SLI and EII. Still think Joy is Fe though, likely ESE. I can't remember Fear all too well but Si-ego makes sense. Agree with the rest, and yes, enneagram should be more relevant because it is more about stability (I think).


----------



## Felipe

Vespera said:


> Ooooohh a fictional characters thread! Yes, I live for this!
> 
> Batman characters are where I strive the most. Anyone got opinions?


Batman - LII
Harley Quinn - SEE
Joker - IxE (bein a psychopath the logical/ethical part is lacking)
Catowman - LSI
Harvey Dent - EIE
Alfred - IEI or ILI I'm not sure, but he gives Batman the occasional insights.

Edited: Harley Quinn SEE instead of IEE


----------



## SheWolf

Felipe said:


> Batman - LII
> Harley Quinn - IEE
> Joker - IxE (bein a psychopath the logical/ethical part is lacking)
> Catowman - LSI
> Harvey Dent - EIE
> Alfred - IEI or ILI I'm not sure, but he gives Batman the occasional insights.


Funny, I see Batman as ILI

Joker probably ILE.

Harley seems more SEE??? Maybe not.

Catwoman probably SLE?


----------



## Felipe

Vespera said:


> Catwoman probably SLE?


yeah maybe, but she's such an antisocial :laughing:

I edited Harley Quinn


----------



## SheWolf

Felipe said:


> yeah maybe, but she's such an antisocial :laughing:
> 
> I edited Harley Quinn


Catwoman antisocial? Nah. Well, depends on what universe. The classic Catwoman is most certainly an extrovert.


----------



## Wisteria

I had some thoughts recently on Bilbo's type when I read the Hobbit. 
The shire culture seems heavily Si based as it is reliant on past sentiment and a maintaining sense of comfort, but what would that make Bilbo? It is natural for anyone to become accustomed to their cultural values, and in the hobbit they value a grounded lifestyle and avoid discomfort, hence the common dislike for adventures and fables. But Bilbo is an unusual hobbit, as he was exited by the prospect of going on an adventure and does use Ne to save himself or others from a tricky situation. I have been considering both ESE and IEE because of this. Anyone got any ideas?


----------



## Immolate

These two:


----------



## Verity

jennalee said:


> I had some thoughts recently on Bilbo's type when I read the Hobbit.
> The shire culture seems heavily Si based as it is reliant on past sentiment and a maintaining sense of comfort, but what would that make Bilbo? It is natural for anyone to become accustomed to their cultural values, and in the hobbit they value a grounded lifestyle and avoid discomfort, hence the common dislike for adventures and fables. But Bilbo is an unusual hobbit, as he was exited by the prospect of going on an adventure and does use Ne to save himself or others from a tricky situation. I have been considering both ESE and IEE because of this. Anyone got any ideas?


It's been too long since I read the books for me to have a clear impression, but I certainly think IEE seems right in the films.

Hobbit society in general seems pretty Alpha, and Bilbo seem to have felt a stronger sense of belonging with the elves, who are more Gamma, and well, he's part Took. The Tooks had a reputation for being unusual among Hobbits since they were adventurous and more pragmatic IIRC. Bilbo, Frodo and Merry all share Took ancestors and I'd label them all as Serious types. Merry might actually be a Gamma now that I think about it


----------



## SheWolf

Does anyone have any opinions on what the Star Wars: The Force Awakens characters are? Particularly the new ones like Kylo, Rey, Finn, etc?


----------



## Verity

ShieldMaiden said:


> Does anyone have any opinions on what the Star Wars: The Force Awakens characters are? Particularly the new ones like Kylo, Rey, Finn, etc?


Kylo: ESI 6w5
Rey: Supposed to be SLI I guess. Too much of a Mary Sue to be accurately typed.
Finn: IEE 4w3(?)
General Hux: Such a Beta caricature, probably LSI 1
Poe: LSE 7w8
Snoke: I'm guessing the usual Ni-creative villain

Seems to follow the Star Wars tradition of the good guys being primarily Deltas while the Gammas are shady and the Betas extreme.


----------



## SheWolf

Verity said:


> Kylo: ESI 6w5
> Rey: Supposed to be SLI I guess. Too much of a Mary Sue to be accurately typed.
> Finn: IEE 4w3(?)
> General Hux: Such a Beta caricature, probably LSI 1
> Poe: LSE 7w8
> Snoke: I'm guessing the usual Ni-creative villain
> 
> Seems to follow the Star Wars tradition of the good guys being primarily Deltas while the Gammas are shady and the Betas extreme.


Yeah, Rey is a total Sue. I love her actual character, though, just... not what they did with her. I wish Finn got more spot light than she did. He is a much more relatable character. Regardless, I see Rey as being more of an Ethical type? I guessed SEI for her.

Kylo seems like a SEE to me? I just wouldn't expect those kinds of emotional outbursts from an ESI and he has some pretty strong Se-Fe going on. But I could be wrong. Definitely agree with him being an E6. Such an E6... probably has some 4 in there too. I put him as a 641 Tritype.

Don't know about Poe. Haven't seen enough of him yet. I just know for sure he's not a Gamma quadrant. Lol. I mostly just see a ton of E7 from him. Likely 7w6.

Hux kinda strikes me more as SLE. An E8 too perhaps? His speech tho... Lol.

Snoke is probably your classic ILI/LIE villain. 

Finn is definitely IEE. Not for sure on his Enneagram. He doesn't strike me as a 4 though.


----------



## Verity

ShieldMaiden said:


> Yeah, Rey is a total Sue. I love her actual character, though, just... not what they did with her. I wish Finn got more spot light than she did. He is a much more relatable character. Regardless, I see Rey as being more of an Ethical type? I guessed SEI for her.
> 
> Kylo seems like a SEE to me? I just wouldn't expect those kinds of emotional outbursts from an ESI and he has some pretty strong Se-Fe going on. But I could be wrong. Definitely agree with him being an E6. Such an E6... probably has some 4 in there too. I put him as a 641 Tritype.
> 
> Don't know about Poe. Haven't seen enough of him yet. I just know for sure he's not a Gamma quadrant. Lol. I mostly just see a ton of E7 from him. Likely 7w6.
> 
> Hux kinda strikes me more as SLE. An E8 too perhaps? His speech tho... Lol.
> 
> Snoke is probably your classic ILI/LIE villain.
> 
> Finn is definitely IEE. Not for sure on his Enneagram. He doesn't strike me as a 4 though.


I don't see Rey using any Fe IIRC, even ESI seems more likely in that case(she does get pretty annoyed by Finn...). I think ESI>SEE for Kylo because Ni-HA/Ne-PoLR seems more likely, and ESIs can have outbursts(albeit usually not that extreme) when their Te is challenged, but I wouldn't rule SEE out. Hux could be SLE although I doubt he's an 8, he's just too blindly idealistic imo.

I thought 4w3 fit for Finn because he seemed like a heart type as well as reactive but maybe something like 6w7 fits better? 

Haven't seen the film since it premiered...


----------



## SheWolf

Verity said:


> I don't see Rey using any Fe IIRC, even ESI seems more likely in that case(she does get pretty annoyed by Finn...). I think ESI>SEE for Kylo because Ni-HA/Ne-PoLR seems more likely, and ESIs can have outbursts(albeit usually not that extreme) when their Te is challenged, but I wouldn't rule SEE out. Hux could be SLE although I doubt he's an 8, he's just too blindly idealistic imo.
> 
> I thought 4w3 fit for Finn because he seemed like a heart type as well as reactive but maybe something like 6w7 fits better?
> 
> Haven't seen the film since it premiered...


Hm. Yeah, do be patient with me, I'm new to Socionics and I really have to learn to separate MBTI and Socionics. Since I'm an SEE my Ti PoLR is having trouble grasping Socionics which is a very Ti-heavy system. Wish an LIE could take a Te-hammer to it and explain it to me. 

Might be hard to type Kylo solidly. He's not exactly... er... mentally healthy. But now that I think about it, Ne PoLR would make sense. It's funny, I see a lot of Beta-Gamma view conflict between him and Hux. You're right, Hux is probably a 1. May have 8 in tritype somewhere though. 

I read somewhere that said Darth Vader was an 8w9. I could see that, but he has some 6w5-ish traits too.


I definitely wouldn't be opposed to 6w7 for Finn. He does seem like a heart type, though... just doesn't seem too 4-like to me.

I just bought it, so I watched it today actually. I was even more irritated by Rey than I was the first time. Just all of a sudden this random scavenger chick can fly the Falcon, have Han/Chewie admire her almost immediately, and be able to overpower a very Force-sensitive and highly trained Skywalker. Ugh. Even Luke had his struggles and he is supposedly one of the greatest Jedi to ever exist.


----------



## Immolate

Verity said:


> Finn: IEE 4w3(?)





ShieldMaiden said:


> Finn is definitely IEE. Not for sure on his Enneagram. He doesn't strike me as a 4 though.


I had a very hard time liking Finn, at least during my first viewing of the film. I felt a bit like Han Solo in that scene with Phasma, where he tells Finn to "bring it down, bring it down." I think a reactive type fits him best. I can see 6w7 before 4w3, although his conversation with Rey about finally being seen for who he was struck me as something a heart type would say.


----------



## SheWolf

lets mosey said:


> I had a very hard time liking Finn, at least during my first viewing of the film. I felt a bit like Han Solo in that scene with Phasma, where he tells Finn to "bring it down, bring it down." I think a reactive type fits him best. I can see 6w7 before 4w3, although his conversation with Rey about finally being seen for who he was struck me as something a heart type would say.


That's what makes me like Finn, however. He has weaknesses in his personality. Rey, on the other hand, was such a Sue that I rolled my eyes at the movie and thought "Is Rey somehow someone's OC and this whole movie a fanfiction put on the big screen?"


----------



## Immolate

ShieldMaiden said:


> That's what makes me like Finn, however. He has weaknesses in his personality. Rey, on the other hand, was such a Sue that I rolled my eyes at the movie and thought "Is Rey somehow someone's OC and this whole movie a fanfiction put on the big screen?"


I don't consider him weak for his reactions or emotions, I just have a hard time processing or relating to characters who are expressive in that way. I found Rey more relatable in that regard.


----------



## SheWolf

lets mosey said:


> ShieldMaiden said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's what makes me like Finn, however. He has weaknesses in his personality. Rey, on the other hand, was such a Sue that I rolled my eyes at the movie and thought "Is Rey somehow someone's OC and this whole movie a fanfiction put on the big screen?"
> 
> 
> 
> I don't consider him weak for his reactions or emotions, I just have a hard time processing or relating to characters who are expressive in that way. I found Rey more relatable in that regard.
Click to expand...

Finn is naive and overzealous, yes. There were times I found him very irritating. Like his absolute obsession with trying to impress Rey over ya know... Saving the Galaxy? 

But as aforementioned, it irritated me how Rey seemed perfect at everything. She was relatable in the sense that she is much more realistic-minded and grounded than Finn but Christ... 

People seem to have the most beef with Kylo Ren though.


----------



## Immolate

ShieldMaiden said:


> Finn is naive and overzealous, yes. There were times I found him very irritating. Like his absolute obsession with trying to impress Rey over ya know... Saving the Galaxy?
> 
> But as aforementioned, it irritated me how Rey seemed perfect at everything. She was relatable in the sense that she is much more realistic-minded and grounded than Finn but Christ...
> 
> People seem to have the most beef with Kylo Ren though.


Ah, it's just a matter of personal preference. He was vibrating on a certain frequency and I found it hard to tolerate at times. Rey was a lot more self-contained, which is what I found relatable. I actually don't have a strong opinion about her character and whether or not she's a Mary Sue. I think there are good points on both sides of that argument. 

I also struggled with Kylo Ren, although with him it was more that he lacked self-control and I didn't think he had any significant characterization outside of his outbursts.


----------



## SheWolf

lets mosey said:


> Ah, it's just a matter of personal preference. He was vibrating on a certain frequency and I found it hard to tolerate at times. Rey was a lot more self-contained, which is what I found relatable. I actually don't have a strong opinion about her character and whether or not she's a Mary Sue. I think there are good points on both sides of that argument.
> 
> I also struggled with Kylo Ren, although with him it was more that he lacked self-control and I didn't think he had any significant characterization outside of his outbursts.


Rey wasn't always self contained. Like when she went into freak out mode after touching Luke's lightsaber. I thought that was a bit ridiculous. I'm not totally defending Finn, but I just felt that the reasons he was annoying made him a more realistic character. But yeah, you're right, to each their own.

I won't make a firm conclusion about Kylo until we see more of him, if we do. I will defend that he's certainly not a weak crybaby that I've seen people complain about. Yes he's broody and lacks self control, but he's pretty strong and terrifying despite how easily it is to underestimate him by appearance. I mean, the guy got shot in the gut with Chewie's crossbow and still continued to fight, and fight well. He certainly doesn't have any fear in that sense. I find his struggle against the light and the dark rather interesting. It's obvious that it's in his nature not to harm anyone and he chooses first to be more passive (like trying to get Rey to join him rather than immediately kill her. Though of course that wasn't the smart or logical thing to do. He certainly was not a villain in the traditional sense, I think that would fall more on Hux. Though I definitely agree that Kylo needs to control himself some. It's hard for people to take him seriously like that.


----------



## Verity

ShieldMaiden said:


> Anyone got opinions on what Captain Jack Sparrow is? Lol. I had the biggest crush on him in my younger years. Not just because Johnny Depp either.


I've seen arguments for ESE, but I personally think he's more xLE iirc, leaning towards ILE.


----------



## SheWolf

Verity said:


> ShieldMaiden said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone got opinions on what Captain Jack Sparrow is? Lol. I had the biggest crush on him in my younger years. Not just because Johnny Depp either.
> 
> 
> 
> I've seen arguments for ESE, but I personally think he's more xLE iirc, leaning towards ILE.
Click to expand...

Yeah, he certainly seems Alpha. I wouldn't say ESE though. Most claims I've seen have said SLE.


----------



## SheWolf

Gotham characters (Feel free to weigh in/challenge. A lot of these are first guesses)

James Gordon: ESI
Bruce Wayne: ILI
Alfred Pennyworth: SLI
Penguin/Oswald Cobblepot: IEI
Cat/Selina Kyle: SEE
Jerome Valeska: ILE
Barbara Gordon: ESE
The Riddler/Edward Nygma: LII


----------



## Wisteria

Anime/Manga Update


* *






Attack on Titan ~ 
Eren: SEE
Mikasa: ESI?
Armin: IEI

Naruto~
-Uzumaki: ESE
Sasuke: ESI, at least from the original, insofar
Tsunade: LSE
Shino: LSI
Hinata: EII
Neji: Te base
Lee: ESE
Shikamaru: SLE?
Kabuto: Fe Ego maybe
Gaara: Fi valuing?


----------



## willowglass

Has anyone read the Fever series by Karen Marie Moning? I just got done reading it not long ago and now I'm kind of Fever obsessed. I'm thinking the series is Se/Ni (possibly Beta) and Moning herself might be EIE, as well as Mac. I'm not sure about Barron's or Dani if anyone has read these books and has an idea. Maybe LSI for Barron's, SEE for Dani, LIE for Ryodan, SLE for Lor...ILE for the Unseelie King..


----------



## Verity

I've watched all the seasons of Archer over this past year, and I find it pretty funny. I'd label it overall as a Beta show.

Sterling Archer: SLE. He does display some Ne, but it's usually just in the form of random references and he has trouble understanding others' intentions and reading between the lines, instead taking everything for what it is. So it's more like Role-Ne. Definitely Fi-PoLR too.

Lana Kane: ESI. Her and Archer's dynamic is pretty typical for Supervision, where she will question his immaturity and lack of responsibility, and he just shrugs it off.

Malory Archer: LIE. Could be LSE I guess, but strikes me as Se-valuing. Obvious 1D Fi.

Cyril Figgis: SEI. Archer and Cyril kinda highlight the contrast between Beta and Alpha Sensors.

Cheryl Tunt: A pretty crazy IEE.

Pamela "Pam" Hoovey: Ridiculously Beta ST. SLE or LSI-Se.

Doctor Krieger: ILE. I guess I could see a case for LII, but he seems more 1D Fi. Stereotypical Alpha NT.

Ray Gilette: EII? He's the only one I'm unsure of. Seems like Fi Ego with Si preference.


----------



## SheWolf

Saw Alice: Through the Looking Glass yesterday.

Mad Hatter: ESE (alternatively IEE but ESE is more likely)
Alice: ESI, possibly.
Red Queen/Iracebeth: EIE
White Queen/Mirana: SEI? Not much of her


----------



## Aiwass

Lol at GoT being Gamma. It is one of the most Beta-based shows out there, centered around personal image and power.

_Game of Thrones_

Tyrion: ILE
Twin: LIE
Arya: Se base, not Se creative imo. Not sure which.
Cersei: EIE
Dany: IEI
Khal: SLE
Jon Snow: SLI
Joffrey: EIE
Melisandre: Beta NF

_Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion_

Lelouch vi Britannia - benchmark EIE
C.C. - IEI
Suzaku Kururugi - Fi base, I could see arguments for both ESI and EII
Kallen - ESI
Charles vi Britannia - SLE
Euphemia - Ne valuing extrovert, probably ESE or IEE

_Harry Potter_

Harry Potter - ESI
Ron Weasley - SEE
Hermione Granger: LSE
Draco Malfoy: EIE
Lucius Malfoy: LSI
Voldemort: EIE
Hagrid: Si-valuing quadra
Snape: ILI

_Bleach_

Zaraki Kenpachi - SLE
Sousuke Aizen - EIE, I think, or maybe IEI
Abarai Renji - SLE
Grimmjow - SLE
Ulquiorra: ILI
Orihime Inoue: SEI, or maybe ESE
Ishida Uryuu: LII
Soi Fon: LSI
Toshiro Hitsugaya: LSI
Matsumoto: SEE

Noted that the Gotei 13 is mostly a Beta ST based structure.


----------



## Wisteria

Never typed GoT characters in this thread so far! Imo;

Jon - ILI
Ned - SLI
Cersei - SEE
Margaery - EIE
Jaime - SEE
Mellisandre - IEI
Arya - Gamma SF
Sansa - SEI
Tyrion - IEE or ILE?
Shae - ESI
Asha Greyjoy - SLE
Theon - SEE
Sam - ILE
Catelyn - Delta?
Robb - An Fe PoLR type. Perhaps SLI.



Aiwass said:


> Lol at GoT being Gamma. It is one of the most Beta-based shows out there, centered around personal image and power.
> Dany: IEI


GRR Martin is usually typed as an NT. I've seen ILI suggested somewhere in this forum. I don't know about the show itself though.

I think Daenerys is an ESI. Never understood the popular IEI/INFJ personality typing of her. She does impose her ethics onto others but they are internally defined. An IEI wouldn't ignore the value systems that exist in these cultures and the advice she receives from her councillors. She also thrives on Se, the IE that exerts volitional force and takes direct action to pursue a goal.

I agree with the Code Geass Types. Lelouch however, is always labelled as the INTJ posterboy or "The best example of an INTJ in fiction". That's what I like about the socionics forum ^-^ I could see EIE now I think about it, although he did have a strong strategic ability that I thought would be expected from a Te ego type.


----------



## Pinina

Wisteria said:


> Never typed GoT characters in this thread so far! Imo;
> 
> Jon - ILI
> Ned - SLI
> Cersei - SEE
> Margaery - EIE
> Jaime - SEE
> Mellisandre - IEI
> Arya - Gamma SF
> Sansa - SEI
> Tyrion - IEE or ILE?
> Shae - ESI
> Asha Greyjoy - SLE
> Theon - SEE
> Sam - ILE
> Catelyn - Delta?
> Robb - An Fe PoLR type. Perhaps SLI.
> 
> 
> 
> GRR Martin is usually typed as an NT. I've seen ILI suggested somewhere in this forum. I don't know about the show itself though.
> 
> I think Daenerys is an ESI. Never understood the popular IEI/INFJ personality typing of her. She does impose her ethics onto others but they are internally defined. An IEI wouldn't ignore the value systems that exist in these cultures and the advice she receives from her councillors. She also thrives on Se, the IE that exerts volitional force and takes direct action to pursue a goal.
> 
> I agree with the Code Geass Types. Lelouch however, is always labelled as the INTJ posterboy or "The best example of an INTJ in fiction". That's what I like about the socionics forum ^-^ I could see EIE now I think about it, although he did have a strong strategic ability that I thought would be expected from a Te ego type.


What about Tywin? 
And why SEE over SLE for Jamie?
Euron Greyjoy?


----------



## Vermillion

Wisteria said:


> Never typed GoT characters in this thread so far! Imo;
> 
> Jon - ILI
> Ned - SLI
> Cersei - SEE
> Margaery - EIE
> Jaime - SEE
> Mellisandre - IEI
> Arya - Gamma SF
> Sansa - SEI
> Tyrion - IEE or ILE?
> Shae - ESI
> Asha Greyjoy - SLE
> Theon - SEE
> Sam - ILE
> Catelyn - Delta?
> Robb - An Fe PoLR type. Perhaps SLI.
> 
> GRR Martin is usually typed as an NT. I've seen ILI suggested somewhere in this forum. I don't know about the show itself though.
> 
> I think Daenerys is an ESI. Never understood the popular IEI/INFJ personality typing of her. She does impose her ethics onto others but they are internally defined. An IEI wouldn't ignore the value systems that exist in these cultures and the advice she receives from her councillors. She also thrives on Se, the IE that exerts volitional force and takes direct action to pursue a goal.
> 
> I agree with the Code Geass Types. Lelouch however, is always labelled as the INTJ posterboy or "The best example of an INTJ in fiction". That's what I like about the socionics forum ^-^ I could see EIE now I think about it, although he did have a strong strategic ability that I thought would be expected from a Te ego type.


This is brilliant, I basically agree with *everything*.

Except I think Jaime is SLE > SEE.


----------



## Serpent

Anyone interested in typing the Lost characters?


----------



## Wisteria

Pinina said:


> What about Tywin?
> And why SEE over SLE for Jamie?
> Euron Greyjoy?


Tywin is Te leading (which is a given, I guess). Perhaps LIE, because he also seems Se valuing (like most characters). His intuition isn't that obvious imo, which could be due to Te pragmatism. LSE is a possibility too, but I'm leaning towards Ni creative rather than Si.
Jaime seemed like an SLE throughout the first half of the series but he began to develop more ethical based reasoning and judgements later on. Might not be inconsistent with Fe HA in an SLE but that was my impression. Compared to Cersei he seems more logical, but this could just be due to the closeness in the relationship she developed towards her children. 
Euron Greyjoy? Wasn't too keen on this character when reading his chapters or watching the show (If he ever reaches Meereen with his fleet, I can't wait to see what Dany's decision will be) - I think SLE.


----------



## Serpent

Wisteria said:


> Tywin is Te leading (which is a given, I guess). Perhaps LIE, because he also seems Se valuing (like most characters). His intuition isn't that obvious imo, which could be due to Te pragmatism. LSE is a possibility too, but I'm leaning towards Ni creative rather than Si.
> Jaime seemed like an SLE throughout the first half of the series but he began to develop more ethical based reasoning and judgements later on. Might not be inconsistent with Fe HA in an SLE but that was my impression. Compared to Cersei he seems more logical, but this could just be due to the closeness in the relationship she developed towards her children.
> Euron Greyjoy? Wasn't too keen on this character when reading his chapters or watching the show (If he ever reaches Meereen with his fleet, I can't wait to see what Dany's decision will be) - I think SLE.


Why SEE for Theon?


----------



## Immolate

Serpent said:


> Anyone interested in typing the Lost characters?


I haven't watched the show in years but I'll give it a try:

Jack - LSE
Locke - IEI (I think this was the intention behind his character, anyhow)
Sawyer - Beta
Juliet - LII ?
Sayid - LSI
Ben - Beta or Gamma
Ana Lucia - SLE
Kate - ESI ?
Hurley - Alpha or Delta
Charlie - SEE
Claire - SEI
Jin - SLI ?
Sun - ???


----------



## Aiwass

@Wisteria George RRM as ILI? I am not sure of his type myself, but I would never imagine him as Gamma introvert, let alone Fe PoLR. I'm curious to see the arguments for this.

People typed as INTJ posterboys by the MBTI community are several different types in Socionics. LIE and LSI seem to be two of the most common correlations, but I can see a lot of Decisive types being associated with "INTJ". I don't know what type of Socionics you practice, but I don't think it is helpful to associate the consensus of typings made by the MBTI community to Socionics, _if _you are talking about classical Socionics.

Regarding Lelouch: I see him as a clear EIE - in every way the type is described - and a clear extrovert in every way Jung defined extroversion. The fact that he was an ideological leader who put effort into changing power structures places him in Beta, at least, and this seems to be the consensus between Russian Socionics-based communities.


----------



## Verity

lets mosey said:


> I haven't watched the show in years but I'll give it a try:
> 
> Jack - LSE
> Locke - IEI (I think this was the intention behind his character, anyhow)
> Sawyer - Beta
> Juliet - LII ?
> Sayid - LSI
> Ben - Beta or Gamma
> Ana Lucia - SLE
> Kate - ESI ?
> Hurley - Alpha or Delta
> Charlie - SEE
> Claire - SEI
> Jin - SLI ?
> Sun - ???


Desmond: EII
I also think Sawyer is more of an SLI honestly, but enneatype 7. Ben is probably just a fucked up LIE or ILI-Te. Sun strikes me as a Delta NF.


----------



## Immolate

Verity said:


> Desmond: EII
> I also think Sawyer is more of an SLI honestly, but enneatype 7. Ben is probably just a fucked up LIE or ILI-Te. Sun strikes me as a Delta NF.


I wondered about IEE for Desmond, but it's been a while.

What makes you say SLI for Sawyer? He was healthiest in the last two seasons and he was able to manage and lead quite well. He was much better at it than Jack was, which would suggest better ethics, perhaps. (Edit: To clarify, I can see SLI.)

I was between ILI and Beta NF for Ben. He was fucked up in general.


----------



## Verity

lets mosey said:


> What makes you say SLI for Sawyer? He was healthiest in the last two seasons and he was able to manage and lead quite well. He was much better at it than Jack was, which would suggest better ethics, perhaps.


Any type is able to be a capable leader, and leadership isn't necessarily about ethics. He's certainly 1D Fe for a start, constantly annoying everyone with his sarcastic remarks without caring one bit about what people think(which really speaks against 2D Fe harmonizing, which rules out SLE). There's a few scenes where he displays the unnecessary stoicism typical of Fi-HA too, like in the torture scene with Sayid, and I just don't see the typical Se-aggressiveness or enforcement of rules that is often so prevalent in LSIs. He's actually not that forceful at all, preferring to criticize people for their lack of _practical_ thinking and letting others initiate every fight.


----------



## Immolate

Verity said:


> Any type is able to be a capable leader, and leadership isn't necessarily about ethics. He's certainly 1D Fe for a start, constantly annoying everyone with his sarcastic remarks without caring one bit about what people think(which kinda rules out SLE). There's a few scenes where he displays the unnecessary stoicism typical of Fi-HA too, like in the torture scene with Sayid, and I just don't see the typical Se-aggressiveness or enforcement of rules that is often so prevalent in LSIs. He's actually not that forceful at all, preferring to criticize people for their lack of _practical_ thinking.


I meant it as a reference to Te and being able to manage resources, as well having a (slightly) better grasp on ethics than Jack, who had a pretty terrible time with relationships in general. I was essentially thinking about SLI out-loud.


----------



## To_august

Verity said:


> History Channel's _Vikings_:
> 
> Ragnar: LIE-Te 8w7 (3-fixed)
> Rollo: SLE-Se 3w4
> Björn: LSE 8w9
> Athelstan: ILI-Ni 9w1
> Lagertha: SEE-Fi 1w2
> Siggy: IEI 2w3
> Floki: LSI 6w7
> Aslaug: SEE 4w3?
> King Ecbert: LIE 3w2
> Aethelwulf: SLI 1w2
> Judith: ESI 9w1
> 
> 
> The theme of the show is quite Beta overall, with Gamma sprinkled in here and there. Almost absent of Si/Ne.
> 
> Tagging @*To_august* in case you have any thoughts, since you posted about the show in the "Name That Quadra" thread.


I only started with the show so my scope of reference is pretty limited. I also wonder for how long will I endure it, lol, since such an obvious lack of Fi and Si grates on me and makes the show inhumane and somewhat boring. Yes, very Beta it is. It will just suffice to mention raid on Lindisfarne monastery - such an archetypal opposition of Beta ST conquest vs Delta NF humility.

LIE and SLE seem right for Ragnar and Rollo respectively. 

Björn constitutes a refreshing contrast to both Ragnar and Rollo and is definitely Delta. Not sure which type at this point.

Lagertha - the only character I really care about. I'm between SEE and LSE for her. It seems like her Se can be seen as more pronounced due to dictates of time and society she lives in, and accentuated more out of necessity, rather than from valuing Se.

Floki - crazy dude who speaks with trees? Seems like an irrational experimentalist. Could be ILE.

Athelstan - ILI or EII. Seen too little of him, but definitely Fi valuing and intuitive type.

Siggy - agreed with IEI.

Earl Haraldson - LSI.


----------



## Verity

To_august said:


> I only started with the show so my scope of reference is pretty limited. I also wonder for how long will I endure it, lol, since such an obvious lack of Fi and Si grates on me and makes the show inhumane and somewhat boring. Yes, very Beta it is. It will just suffice to mention raid on Lindisfarne monastery - such an archetypal opposition of Beta ST conquest vs Delta NF humility.
> 
> LIE and SLE seem right for Ragnar and Rollo respectively.
> 
> Björn constitutes a refreshing contrast to both Ragnar and Rollo and is definitely Delta. Not sure which type at this point.
> 
> Lagertha - the only character I really care about. I'm between SEE and LSE for her. It seems like her Se can be seen as more pronounced due to dictates of time and society she lives in, and accentuated more out of necessity, rather than from valuing Se.
> 
> Floki - crazy dude who speaks with trees? Seems like an irrational experimentalist. Could be ILE.
> 
> Athelstan - ILI or EII. Seen too little of him, but definitely Fi valuing and intuitive type.
> 
> Siggy - agreed with IEI.
> 
> Earl Haraldson - LSI.


Lagertha... Yes, I can definitely see LSE. Björn actually becomes pretty similar to her in later seasons.

You don't really see much of Athelstan's or Floki's respective personalities in the first season IIRC(Athelstan is the POV into viking culture, and Floki is just the weird guy in the gang). Floki is obsessed with enforcing the will of the gods that he subjectively interprets, and he vastly overestimates his own ability for foresight(Ragnar kinda plays him like a fiddle because of this), I don't really see any Ne, even though he's an inventive builder. Athelstan is by far the character I relate the most to, seconded by adult Björn.


----------



## Kintsugi

Verity said:


> I've watched all the seasons of Archer over this past year, and I find it pretty funny. I'd label it overall as a Beta show.
> 
> Sterling Archer: SLE. He does display some Ne, but it's usually just in the form of random references and he has trouble understanding others' intentions and reading between the lines, instead taking everything for what it is. So it's more like Role-Ne. Definitely Fi-PoLR too.
> 
> Lana Kane: ESI. Her and Archer's dynamic is pretty typical for Supervision, where she will question his immaturity and lack of responsibility, and he just shrugs it off.
> 
> Malory Archer: LIE. Could be LSE I guess, but strikes me as Se-valuing. Obvious 1D Fi.
> 
> Cyril Figgis: SEI. Archer and Cyril kinda highlight the contrast between Beta and Alpha Sensors.
> 
> Cheryl Tunt: A pretty crazy IEE.
> 
> Pamela "Pam" Hoovey: Ridiculously Beta ST. SLE or LSI-Se.
> 
> Doctor Krieger: ILE. I guess I could see a case for LII, but he seems more 1D Fi. Stereotypical Alpha NT.
> 
> Ray Gilette: EII? He's the only one I'm unsure of. Seems like Fi Ego with Si preference.


My husband and I love Archer! 

I agree with all of these....except maybe Ray. I really have no idea with regards his type (but would be interested in hearing an argument for EII...if you got one?)


----------



## Verity

The Perfect Storm said:


> My husband and I love Archer!
> 
> I agree with all of these....except maybe Ray. I really have no idea with regards his type (but would be interested in hearing an argument for EII...if you got one?)


He always reacts strongly and independent of others whenever someone does something he disapproves of, kinda similar to Lana, but he's not really as forceful. He also seeks comfort and is very selective about physical details such as clothes, food etc. Making me think Si>Se.

Not sure though. I never paid too much attention to him.


----------



## SheWolf

Star Wars: Darth Maul - ESI. Perhaps ESI-Fi. I'd guess Enneagram 6w5 sx/so as well. 

His intense grudges are so stereotypical ESI, as well as his inability to detach from his emotional states.


----------



## FearAndTrembling

Beavis and Butthead seem Gamma. Like their Se heavy metal and despise Fe.


----------



## Serpent

Has anyone typed the Walking Dead characters?


----------



## Verity

Serpent said:


> Has anyone typed the Walking Dead characters?


I assume you mean the show and not the comic? I thought I had posted my list, but I can't find it... Most of the main cast are Deltas struggling against an Se-heavy and Fi-lacking world. These are my estimates:

Rick: SLI-Te 9w8 So/Sp
Shane: SLE 8w7 Sx/So
Morgan: EII, integrated 6
Michonne: SLI 9w8 Sp/Sx
Carl: LSE 6 maybe
Glenn: ILI(alternatively EII) 6w7 Sp/Sx
Daryl: SLI-Si 8w9 Sp/Sx
Merle: SLE 7w8 Sx
Carol: EII 9w1 Sx/Sp
Beth: IEE-Fi 2w1
Maggie: LSE 6w7
Abraham: LSE-Te 7w8 or 8w7
Rosita: SLI? could see LSI
Sasha: ESI 3
Denise: IEI-Fe 6 or 5
Tara: LII-Ne? 4
Aaron: xEE 2
Hershel: SLI-Si 1w9
Eugene: ILI-Te(hardcore creative sub) 6w5
Gabriel: SEI 3w4
Andrea: SEE 6w7
Tyreese: IEE-Fi
The Governor: LIE 3w4 So/Sx
Lori: ESE 2w1


----------



## Donkey Eternal

I posted this on the16types forum. Some of the information presented is irrelevant to the forum members here, but that's because I didn't bother editing it. I got irritated at some of the typings on the other forum.

Game of Thrones:

Daenerys

* *




Lmao at IEI. You just want her to be Drogo's dual. IEIs suck at Se, Daenerys doesn't.
I would say EIE with confidence, 'cause she seems Beta, but she sucks at Ni, wherein Jorah [more on him later], an ILI, advises her. She's even worse at Te; Jorah to the rescue again. I might say ESI, however, she has a penchant for dramatics, especially in speeches, and has no reserves with sharing her problems with others. EIEs can have subjective and intolerant moral codes too, you know? Also, I'll say it again, she seems Beta. There's the problem with weak Ni, but then EIE-Fe often let their emotions cloud their judgement, and this subtype would also explain her powerful Se. I also don't like her, so I'll say EIE-Fe. Hey, at least she'd be Drogo's activator.





Robert

* *




Clearly Fe and Se valuing, Beta, and not a fucking ESE, SLE or SEE. SLE are actually quite composed people, not boisterous unless by someone else's initiative. ESEs are boisterous, but not nearly as dramatic and are inclined towards less extremes. He also has strong Ni, as seen in his attitude towards the Dothraki problem. Strong Se explained by his Fe subtype, and Se is still not as prevalent as Fe. If you don't think this pig values Fe you need to watch his interactions with Ned more closely. SEEs don't care about Fe unless it helps them achieve something material. And there's no Fi in him, just see how he reacts to Ned's Fi input. He's an EIE-Fe. Sure, he doesn't seem like Dany, another EIE-Fe, but then EIE are the most varied and, frankly, fucked up type, no offence.





Joffrey

* *




Yet another EIE-Fe. Alpha NT is the stupidest typing for him. Alpha NTs react to Se with disgust and avoidance, though ILE will use it quite maturely if need be. Joffrey likes Se, in his own twisted way, and is constantly trying to make himself seem like he's good at Se, which he's only mediocre at and that too because of his status. As for Fe dominance, he's quite good at Fe. Just watch how he charmed Sansa and riles up crowds when he wants. He doesn't care for Si. Lack of Ni explained by Fe subtype. Listen, I know these typings are not perfect, but they're the closest you can expect with these fictional characters. So Joffrey is EIE-Fe.





Viserys

* *




Lol, another EIE. Dramatic and very Beta, obsessed with being the 'Dragon', lmao. Quite like Joffrey, good at Fe, but often mixes it with his meh Se, which he isn't nearly as good with as he might think. Not much else to say for this obvious typing, but I will say you're nuts if you think he's ILE, lol. The Dragon is EIE-Fe.





Theon

* *




Is EIE. I know, I'm tired of EIE typings too, but lets get them all over with at once.
The Joffrey-Viserys case applies here, what with strong Fe 
[listen to his speech before he's knocked out] and the not-so-great but emphasised Se, he's just not AS bad a guy as the former two. Strong Beta-ness and pride for his culture. After the Ramsay thing I think he's EII. Terrified of Se, Very focused on the interpersonal, afraid of offending, confused by Ramsay's turbulent Fe. Capable of channeling Fe himself occasionally [iron islands or Yara speech], but doesn't care about it as much anymore, advises others with Ni, but unable to force anyone to listen.
So yeah, EIE-Fe then EII. You can't expect consistent types in all fictional characters, especially ones subjected to torture.





Arya

* *




Doesn't care about Fe. Does care for Fi. Great at Se, but doesn't give mind to hierarchy and power structures [which would be Se + Ti], and is rather democratic. Led by her emotional reactions viscerally, pays no heed to the consequences of her actions and bad at putting things into context i.e killing Meryn Trant because it was what her emotions dictated, and naming three insignificant names when she could have had any three people killed. Gamma values, realistic, mistrustful and critical of others moral compasses [the Hound]. All this points to SEE-Se. Also, I love her, but I've provided an argument free of bias.





Jaime

* *




An interesting and complex character. SLE-Se seemed obvious at first, what with his oppressive use of Fe, strong Se, lack of attention paid to Ni, seeming disregard for Fi, cold realism, and skilful handling of logical categories. But I've been having strong doubts. While he can play with rules and categories, he does just that, play. He doesn't take them seriously at all, which a Ti type would. Just listen to his conversation about rules with Catylen when he's a prisoner. Sounds like Ti in the Id block. He seems bad at Ni, but I've only seen him demonstrate ignorance of it a few times, which even Ni types exhibit [except maybe Ni dominants]. Most of the time his nonchalance is because he's all too aware of the consequences and knows exactly what he'll do if things go wrong. Note how he assures Cersei in these matters i.e the Bran problem. His cold realism is as much attributable to Te as it is to an SLE. He obviously cares about Fi in his devotion to Cersei and later Brienne [I'm not saying devotion is Fi btw], but he's not that good at it, he feels insecure about it, and needs strong, valued Fi in a partner. His attitude of 'I will do the most deplorable shit for the few people I care about because most people deserve shit anyways' is very Gamma. I'm now quite confident he's an LIE.
There's this stereotype that LIE are serious businessmen, which is ridiculous. Ni subtypes at least are actually playful people with a roguish charm who are quite good at Fe. Also his Se isn't that prevalent and he's more democratic than SLEs. His occasional disregard for Ni can be attributed to the impulsive EJ temperament, which I forgot to mention for my previous EIE typings who also frequently ignore Ni.
He's LIE-Ni.


----------



## Donkey Eternal

Drogo

* *




Beta. Very strong Se. Capable of and enjoys Fe, but has only demonstrated it powerfully on one occasion. Loves Dany, an EIE. Points to SLE-Se. It seems everyone agrees.





Ramsay

* *




My first impression was 'oh, another EIE', but I now think he's SEE. Hear me out. He reeks of Fe [lol, pun not intended], but he uses it playfully and non-seriously. I'm not saying this negates the typing of EIE, but it opens up the possibility of SEE since Fe demonstrative can manifest in that form. Something that really differentiates Ramsay from the EIEs in this show is that he's really good at Se, which he clearly values. Se manifests itself differently in him than the EIEs. He's fearless and revels in the violance of personal combat. He's unpredictable and arrogant, ignoring possible ways his plans could go wrong. He thinks on his feet, but is reckless when it comes to political consequences. He also respects and [sometimes] heeds the words of his father, Roose, a Gamma NT. Of course, he's a fucking sadist, but overall I think he's an SEE-Fi.





Cersei

* *




Emotionally manipulative and sees through the character of others e.g Margaery. Points to skill in ethics. She's too often typed logical without reason. Being cold and distrusting does not equal a logical type. Strong and valued Se. Se's strength negates the possibility of IEI, leaving EIE, SEE or ESI. She is extremely impatient and short-sighted. This removes EIE. She's mistrustful, vengeful and definitely a Gamma SF, but her mercurial, amoral nature and bias towards her children is more SEE than ESI. I don't even like her that much, but she is what she is, an SEE-Se. This also explains her and Jaime's [LIE] mostly positive relationship, as well as her being supervised by Tywin, an LSI.





Baelish

* *




Also emotionally manipulative, so you'd think ethical, but no one actually trusts him, so his manipulation doesn't exactly work that well. You could argue that most people don't trust other ethical characters like Cersei either, but there are other reasons I typed them ethical, whereas Littlefinger only has his false niceness and dramatic speeches going for him, which isn't much. I think he's LIE-Ni. His Ni is very, very strong. And I've already said so in my Jaime post but LIE are fairly good at Fe. What Petyr is not good at is realising his real feelings and realising the real feelings of others. He thinks he loves Catylen and that she loves him, which isn't the case. He uses goals like revenge against the Starks and Tullys as an excuse for his utter ambition to control everything around him. The fact that he's a genius at financial matters and that I like him doesn't hurt the typing of LIE-Ni I have for him.





Jon Snow

* *




ESI-Fi, easy. Why? Because he knows nothing and ESI have no Te. I'm just kidding. He has a clear moral compass which he stubbornly abides by. He is good at managing psychological distance, and could navigate his complicated relationships within the Stark household. He was quick to judge his future friends when he first joined the Watch, but he later found his impulsive Gamma SF-like judgement to be wrong, because he was simply criticising their actions and not considering the intent behind them [Gamma SF vs Delta NF]. He may not seem Fi dominant because you might think he was unaware of how helping the wildlings would change his relations with the Night's Watch members, but on the contrary, I think he was aware, he just didn't think this hatred of him would lead to him being stabbed by a child while he was the fucking Lord Commander and then being reincarnated. You can't expect someone, a Ne PoLR nonetheless, to have expected that.
He's not good at Ni or Te, as shown in the Battle of Bastards when he rushed to try and save Rickon, and when that failed, he rode forward stupidly consumed by his emotions.


----------



## Donkey Eternal

Sansa

* *




Let's examine her character.
When young, she tried to emulate her mother's example of a "proper lady" i.e she's probably rational, which explains her conflict with irrational, SEE-Se Arya.
She's obviously ethical, and most likely is a Fi-valuing introvert, leaving ESI and EII.
She naively believed in the tales and epic romances in which every princess gets her honourable knight in shining armour to sweep her off her feet.
This points to an intuitive type, however, you must realise that she was brought up to believe those tales, and it's not like she persists in her belief for long, so this aspect of her personality leads to no conclusion.
While you could argue Arya was brought up similarly, ESI and SEE react quite differently to traditions and standards, the former embracing most of them and the latter rejecting them.
Now, why would a Fi type be so naive to others intentions as Sansa in season one of GoT?
Simple, she has bad Ne.
She was so absorbed in her preconceived perception of the world that until an extreme occurrence [Ned's death], she remained oblivious.
So that should exclude EII, but that was too little to go off of, so I'll continue and prove that she's most likely an ESI.
You might think she's bad at Se, but she's not, it's just that she realises her attempts to resist the cruelty of those around her would be futile.
You see, ESI, unlike SEE, are mindful of the social hierarchy.
Note how her Se comes out when she escapes King's Landing, especially when she's with Baelish and later Jon.
Speaking of Baelish, they dualise.
Notice how much she grows in her awareness of context and intrigue when around him.
As for subtypes, I think she's ESI-Se, mostly because of her pushy interaction with Jon.





Tyrion

* *




He's extroverted, that's for sure.
Also for sure is that he values Fi.
He's good at Fe, but uses it playfully or for manipulative gain i.e Fe demonstrative.
Emotionally turbulent, tends towards drama.
Tries to cheer people up, but while his intentions are noble, he seems insincere, erratic and inconsiderate at times, which is habitual of Fi creatives SEE and IEE, but I haven't ruled out LIE yet.
What does rule out LIE is his sometimes lazy and hedonistic behaviour, and the fact that his emotions often overpower his logic.
What makes him IEE over SEE is his strong ability with Ni, ability to accurate grasp people's character without much background with them, and the fact that he's probably not Cersei's identical.
It makes sense that he's Tywins conflictor also.
Subtype is IEE-Fi.





Margaery

* *




Not an alpha SF.
She's an aggressor, plays power games, manipulates people and has great ambition.
"I want to be the Queen."
Cleary extroverted and so I say SEE-Fi.
EIE-Fe was my first thought, but she only ever uses Fe for personal gain.
Of course that fact doesn't negate EIE, but her aggressor attitude and sensory confidence sure do.
Fi subtype explains her pretty good intuition.
I also like her a lot too, but no bias.





The Hound

* *




Aggressive, Se valuing and realistic. Doesn't actually care for authority or rules unless not caring would result in his displeasure. Mindful of politics and people's positions. Fi valuing, cynical and introverted. Inwardly kind, democratic, and devolops close but complicated bonds. Points to ESI-Se. I could elaborate, but I think it's obvious. He's not an SLI; not Si valuing at all and uses a lot of Se.





Olenna

* *




Witty, cunning and politically astute.
Outspoken with little patience for inconvenience.
Strong and valued Ni, Te and Se point to LIE.
Ni is too strong for the popular typings of SLE and SEE.
She's also of EJ temperament.


----------



## Donkey Eternal

Eddard

* *




Obvious Fi-valuing, sensing rational.
That leaves ESI and LSE.
Btw he's not Se PoLR, so he's not EII people.
I vote ESI as Si is never present in his personality and Fi and Se are more prevalent than Te.
As for judging people impractically pointing to bad Fi, he was on the contrary quite mistrustful.
Regarding Baelish, Ned never trusted him, he was just very distracted and tired.





Melisandre

* *




Obvious EIE-Fe. Beta NF. Extraversion and Se is too prevalent for IEI. I shouldn't have to go on.





Jorah

* *




Gamma NT at least should be obvious.
He's always trying to give reasonable, practical and effective advice.
He's intelligent, literate and well travelled.
Gives advise regarding Ni.
If he were LIE, he'd be the Te subtype as he's to serious and focused on Fi to be the Ni subtype.
However, in LIE-Te, the EJ temperament is emphasised further, so it should be obvious.
But it isn't.
If anything, Jorah seems like an IP, just going with the flow.
Thus I'll say he's an ILI-Te.
His one sided affection for Dany is also one of many ways supervision can manifest itself.





Stannis

* *




Obvious LSI-Ti.
It seems everyone agrees.
Sometimes I think he's Fi valuing, but that's just an inconsistency in a fictional character.





Tywin

* *




He's not an LIE, but an LSI instead.
There's no arguing that he's anything other than a Se valuing logical rational type.
Just look at his composure, it's not of an LIE, but clearly of an IJ and a Se valuer.
But of course, composure is too minor a detail with fictional characters so let's move on.
He's excellent at Se. LIE can use Se, sometimes effectively, but not nowhere near as consistently or skilfully as Tywin.
What about his strong Ni?
Well, LSI-Ti are quite good with Ni.
The thing with Tywin is that his Se is stronger than his Ni, which is sometimes neglected.
What about his strong Te?
LSI-Ti are very good at Te, just like an ILI is good at Ti.
Tywin is also bad at Ne + Fi.
He has an irrational dislike of Tyrion.
An LIE's Te dominance and strong Ne demonstrative would make them more likely to acknowledge and properly appoint Tyrion.
Also pointing to LSI over LIE is Tywin's conservative, patrician set of social values, in which women are suited to securing marriage-alliances and little else, not weilding power on their own.
An LIE would have more of a 'whatever works' ideology, like Olenna.


----------



## Donkey Eternal

Oberyn

* *




Forceful, lusty, hot tempered, passionate, grudge holding, overconfident, loyal to those he cares about.Switches between being laid-back and easygoing to being serious.
All this points to SEE.
I considered EIE-Fe, but his Se is very strong, I don't recall him demonstrating Ni, and he doesn't respect authority.
Thus he's SEE-Se.





Brienne

* *




IJ temperament is obvious. SLI? No. She's judgemental, strict and stable, and doesn't actually explicitly demonstrate Si, or even Te.
I lean LSI > ESI.
She's awkward, yearns for acceptance, and she uses Ti over Fi.
It may seem that her deep loyalty to individuals and not their groups points to Fi, but in fact, Brienne is just adhering to the expectations and guidelines of knighthood, when no one else does.
She found a system of behaviour she likes and strives to adhere to it completely, to the point of ignoring efficiency [Te ignoring].
LSI-Se.





Roose Bolton

* *




Obvious Gamma NT.
He's cautious, calm, calculating, politically atute, coldly realistic and a cunning strategist.
He never publicly expresses anger, happiness, or sadness.
He offers the most pragmatic advice to Robb Stark, albeit the most ruthless.
For all his caution while dealing with his enemies, Roose ironically fails to see the threat right in front of him i.e Ramsay [weak Fi].
His calmness points towards ILI, Te subtype.





Varys

* *




Calm and reserved demeanour.
Able to wade through one confrontation after another without losing his dignity, temper or advantage.
Speaks in riddles.
Appears meek, subservient and passive, but is a master of deception, manipulation and calculation.
This points to ILI or IEI.
While he seems good at Fe, it's all very over the top and pretty laughable. I [ILI] could do the same in his situation.
He's good at Te, see him when he's ruling Meereen with Tyrion.
More importantly, he seems Fi valuing.
He develops close emotional connections with people and has a vengeful Gamma-ish nature [the sorcerer].
ILI are also better at Se than IEI in my experience, which Varys occasionally demonstrates.
So ILI-Ni. This subtype explains his somewhat strong ethics.





Renly Baratheon

* *




Obvious ethical extrovert.
Uneasy around violence and blood, According to him, all he heard about from Robert was how he was never "tough" enough.
This leaves ESE and IEE.
He's skilled in politics and was patient, pointing to IEE.
He also relied on his charisma and popularity for the support of his troops rather than propaganda, which is habitual of Fi creatives.
Conflicts with Stannis.
He's IEE-Fi.


----------



## Donkey Eternal

Bronn

* *




Obvious Se valuing logical extrovert.
That leaves SLE and LIE.
He doesn't value Fi [like Tyrion] and he values Fe.
SLE-Se. It's actually pretty obvious.





Walder Frey

* *




Arrogant, domineering, lecherous, tyrannical, ruthless and traitorous. Not fully considering the long-term consequences of his actions.
SLE-Se it is.





High Sparrow

* *




Humble, pious and 'wise'. Unmoved by life's luxuries and abjures materialism.
Ruthless and fanatical in his beliefs as well as a shrewd and highly intelligent political player with a keen and personal understanding of the mindsets of many of the political players of King's Landing.
Obvious EIE-Ni.





Mance Rayder [King Beyond the Wall]

* *




Charismatic, calm, and determined with strong leadership qualities.
His exceptional social skills and honest yet stern personal enabled him unite the diverse wilding clans and earn their respect and admiration. Sometimes ignores what's efficient [Te]
He's EIE-Ni.





Alliser Throne

* *




LSI-Se. Stern, unsympathetic and sometimes cruel. Does not tolerate weakness or cowardice. Holds Maester Aemon [IEI] in high regard. Ignores efficiency in favour of a consistent system [Te vs Ti]. Beta 'us v.s them' mentality [Crows vs the Wildlings].


----------



## Verity

Donkey Eternal said:


> Jaime
> 
> * *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An interesting and complex character. SLE-Se seemed obvious at first, what with his oppressive use of Fe, strong Se, lack of attention paid to Ni, seeming disregard for Fi, cold realism, and skilful handling of logical categories. But I've been having strong doubts. While he can play with rules and categories, he does just that, play. He doesn't take them seriously at all, which a Ti type would. Just listen to his conversation about rules with Catylen when he's a prisoner. Sounds like Ti in the Id block. He seems bad at Ni, but I've only seen him demonstrate ignorance of it a few times, which even Ni types exhibit [except maybe Ni dominants]. Most of the time his nonchalance is because he's all too aware of the consequences and knows exactly what he'll do if things go wrong. Note how he assures Cersei in these matters i.e the Bran problem. His cold realism is as much attributable to Te as it is to an SLE. He obviously cares about Fi in his devotion to Cersei and later Brienne [I'm not saying devotion is Fi btw], but he's not that good at it, he feels insecure about it, and needs strong, valued Fi in a partner. His attitude of 'I will do the most deplorable shit for the few people I care about because most people deserve shit anyways' is very Gamma. I'm now quite confident he's an LIE.
> There's this stereotype that LIE are serious businessmen, which is ridiculous. Ni subtypes at least are actually playful people with a roguish charm who are quite good at Fe. Also his Se isn't that prevalent and he's more democratic than SLEs. His occasional disregard for Ni can be attributed to the impulsive EJ temperament, which I forgot to mention for my previous EIE typings who also frequently ignore Ni.
> He's LIE-Ni.


I think you hit the nail on the head here actually.


----------



## Lord Fenix Wulfheart

Belgariad and Malloreon (and Polgara the Sorceress and Belgarath the Sorcerer) by David Eddings

Belgarion - IEI 9w8? SEI 9w8??? Hard to tell with the 
* *




voice in his head shaping him all the time



He seems to shift a lot, which makes sense given he is a teenager. Most of the time he is being corrected the way things go (if you will), though, so I think he is being shifted towards Static thinking and he himself is Dynamic. This requires you to know about: 
* *




the setting being a world which never totally changes in a lot of ways, which seems to baffle the poor kid and go against his instincts. Probably because he was born to change the world and allow it to grow towards the destiny it was always intended to go to


. Because of that, and because of the obvious Te devaluing, I suspect IEI most, despite the obvious sensor traits. I've seen LSI argued, but I think his grasp on intuition is too strong for that, which becomes more apparent 
* *




when you have read the entire series and seen how he is as an adult who must accomplish goals, and how not understanding until the very last moment upsets him so much (valued Ti). He seems to take not understanding as a hit at the very core of his being, and he doesn't actually seem strong at Ti. He makes intuitive guesses more than reasoning things out.



Ce'Nedra - something manipulative with Fe, doesn't seem to see the ramifications of doing so. I suspect Fe HA. SLE maybe, which makes sense if you think about her body type and the way she was raised and the place of women at the time - she had to learn to make do in a world that doesn't like strong women, and she still wound up as one of the strongest. Her will is sheer steel, for reasons that are obvious in the Malloreon.
Belgarath - LSI-Se 7w6. Yes, despite the Ne-ishness he sometimes displays. In Belgarath the Sorcerer, it shows how he was before the 7000 years of experience in dealing with the abstract and with magic.
Beldin - ILI maybe. Difficulties with Fe, wants to be accepted in a way that seems kinda Fi. Very intuitive and values logic. Intuition might be Ne though.
Polgara - IEE? SEE? Something with strong Fe, Fi, and uses Se. Seems to value SiTe in partners though...
Prince Kheldar - ILE-Ti 9w8
Barak - SLE or LSI tormented by his wife's Serious formalities and occasional curmudgeonry
Durnik - The soul of SLI
Mandorallen - The essence of courtly manners. Formality is like part of his skin or something. Ugh. Definitely Decisive and Serious. Fe is probably Ignoring for this guy, so gonna say ESI.
Lelldorin - Ti PoLR, Fe Demonstrative. Seems to value Se. SEE?
Relg - Seems Ni PoLR and people focused. ESE, maybe?
The Dry Voice - Definitely Dynamic, and frustrated 
* *




with the world being made into a repeating loop that never changes instead of being truly dynamic


. I suspect his Ni is Producing and his logic is quite obviously Te so I suspect LIE.

I love how this series creates such strong archetype portraits. It is written from a very Aristocratic viewpoint, and is written about a world that seems Static for various reasons, with the primary characters main goal being 
* *




to restore the natural Dynamic order of the world


----------



## Immolate

Maybe someone will be willing to type this exchange:



> "If you can see a thing whole," he said, "it seems that it's always beautiful. Planets, lives. . . . But close up, a world's all dirt and rocks. And day to day, life's a hard job, you get tired, you loose the pattern. You need distance, interval. The way to see how beautiful earth is, is to see it from the moon. The way to see how beautiful life is, is from the vantage point of death."
> 
> "That's all right for Urras. Let it stay off there and be the moon -- I don't want it! But I am not going to stand up on a gravestone and look down on life and say, 'O lovely!' I want to see it whole right in the middle of it, here, now. I don't give a hoot for eternity."
> 
> "It's nothing to do with eternity," said Shevek, grinning, a thin shaggy man of silver and shadow. "All you have to do to see life as a whole is to see it as mortal. I'll die, you'll die; how could we love each other otherwise? The sun's going to burn out, what else keeps it shining?"
> 
> "Ah! your talk, your damned philosophy!"
> 
> "Talk? It's not talk. It's not reason. It's hand's touch. I touch the wholeness, I hold it. Which is moonlight, which is Takver? How shall I fear death? When I hold it, when I hold in my hands the light--"
> 
> "Don't be propertarian," Takver muttered.
> 
> "Dear heart, don't cry."
> 
> "I'm not crying. You are. Those are your tears."
> 
> "I'm cold. The moonlight's cold."
> 
> "Lie down."
> 
> A great shiver went through his body as she took him in her arms.
> 
> "I'm afraid, Takver," he whispered.


----------



## Lord Fenix Wulfheart

lets mosey said:


> Maybe someone will be willing to type this exchange:


The initial speaker is probably Beta NF. Is it just Takver and Shavek in this scene? I'm trying to parse what Urras is and who is saying what on some of those lines.

It seems very NiSe to me. I think Ne is being ignored, and the person who says "Ah! Your damned philosophy!" may be chiding that.


----------



## Immolate

Lord Fenix Wulfheart said:


> The initial speaker is probably Beta NF. Is it just Takver and Shavek in this scene? I'm trying to parse what Urras is and who is saying what on some of those lines.
> 
> It seems very NiSe to me. I think Ne is being ignored, and the person who says "Ah! Your damned philosophy!" may be chiding that.


Yes, it's just Takver and Shavek, if memory serves. Urras is a planet, the twin world to their own.

The excerpt is from The Dispossessed by Ursula Le Guin. I read it a few years ago and it came to mind recently.


----------



## Lord Fenix Wulfheart

lets mosey said:


> Yes, it's just Takver and Shavek, if memory serves. Urras is a planet, the twin world to their own.
> 
> The excerpt is from The Dispossessed by Ursula Le Guin. I read it a few years ago and it came to mind recently.


Oh, LEGUIN? Ursula Leguin's Earthsea series is extremely Beta IMO. One of my favorites. That sort of writing style and the sorts of ideas she has makes me think she is probably a Ni-dom herself. She has a Ni attitude towards life.


----------



## Verity

lets mosey said:


> Yes, my impression was more along the lines of Ni-valuing logician, and I couldn't help remembering "Death is a disease!" when he went on about time as an insult. What did you find particularly Beta about him?


It seemed like he was striving for an impersonal revolution with unbending conviction towards his one and only principle, where everyone who disagree is seen as an enemy to the cause(a common Beta trope). ILI's usually have a harder time convincing themselves of ideology like that. 
Also, unlike say, Strange, he kinda overestimates his own predictive capacity and conceptual understanding and it really bites him in the ass.

That said, I don't really remember his character fully, and he didn't recieve that much characterization imo.


----------



## Immolate

Verity said:


> It seemed like he was striving for an impersonal revolution with unbending conviction towards his one and only principle, where everyone who disagree is seen as an enemy to the cause(a common Beta trope). ILI's usually have a harder time convincing themselves of ideology like that.
> Also, unlike say, Strange, he kinda overestimates his own predictive capacity and conceptual understanding and it really bites him in the ass.
> 
> *That said, I don't really remember his character fully, and he didn't recieve that much characterization imo.*


Agreed. What stands out to me the most is his moment with Strange while he's restrained. Otherwise his character lacked development.

That said, I wonder what you mean by "impersonal," because if I remember correctly, Kaecilius was broken by the death of his loved ones (Mordo made mention of something to that effect), and it was that personal hurt that drove him to seek the teachings and try to overcome death/time.


----------



## SheWolf

Kaecilius didn't get enough screen time to be typed

I do think that the Sanctum (I forgot the name...) that he visits is a rather Beta environment. Follow the rules, eliminate threats, and serve a higher purpose. Strange was just like uhhhh... no. I just want my hands fixed. Lol.


----------



## Immolate

Thorn said:


> The bullet in the brain requires a certain mental steadiness, sure.


What do you mean by "mental steadiness"? I was referring to the claim that he is clumsy in his environment when that scene shows us the degree of his physical precision. We could always argue he developed that one area over time and is otherwise clumsy in his everyday life, sure.

For the record, I don't mean to make arguments either way.


----------



## SheWolf

lets mosey said:


> What do you mean by "mental steadiness"? I was referring to the claim that he is clumsy in his environment when that scene shows us the degree of his physical precision. We could always argue he developed that one area over time and is otherwise clumsy in his everyday life, sure.
> 
> For the record, I don't mean to make arguments either way.


Maybe but that's not what I consider knowing how to properly bend the environment through force. 

He showed to be rather clumsy with other matters. His crappy physical prowess kinda bled all over the place in my view.


----------



## Immolate

Thorn said:


> Maybe but that's not what I consider knowing how to properly bend the environment through force.
> 
> He showed to be rather clumsy with other matters. His crappy physical prowess kinda bled all over the place in my view.


I'm not making an argument for 4D Se. I'm merely stating that the man is not clumsy, certainly not in the way you seem to describe him. He didn't strike me as having crappy physical prowess, either, but that's in comparison to my own prowess, lol.


----------



## owlet

@Verity


> You can glean strong Ni at times such as when he easily comprehends the concept of the infinite temporal loop and how he uses that to his advantage.


Could you elaborate on why this is Ni in particular?



Thorn said:


> More or less referring to how he deals with confrontation. The bullet in the brain requires a certain mental steadiness, sure.
> 
> I came to LIE through process of elimination more so. Probably how my Negativist mind works, that I comprehend better what is not there rather than what is.
> 
> 
> * *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He's certainly not an SLE as @*Verity* mentioned he finds rules and such stupid. Breaks them because it gets in the way of efficiency. I did have someone once tell me that the Ignoring can look like the PoLR.
> 
> That leaves SEE, but his Feeling is just fucking terrible (the movies introduction has him being uncomfortable with the affection of a patient's wife trying to hug him. LOL.) He's really bad with Fi, I think, especially with how he handles Christine and starts accusing her of some outlandish claim that she sees him as a charity case and that she's basically untrustworthy. Also wasn't good at truly assessing Ancient One when he discovered her secret.
> I also think Gamma Quadra fits him.


I disagree with SEE being the only choice for Se base.

* *





He disregards society's rules, but he is very attached to his own understanding of how things work. Look at the scene where he's talking to the Ancient One for the first time and is dismissing everything she says because it doesn't tie into his understanding of reality - he's not open to new concepts until he's thrown into them physically to see that they are, in fact, actual reality, which then forces him to change his view on how things work. His Ti would be creative, so there more to back up his Se, which is where he's focused on getting an immediate result or impact in the real world.
What you described above for Fi with the hug would be more likely to refer to Fe, with a discomfort around overt emotional displays, but does try to engage with people by creating a more light-hearted atmosphere (cracking jokes) even though they often fail.




Could you explain Ni ego?


----------



## owlet

Thorn said:


> Kaecilius didn't get enough screen time to be typed
> 
> I do think that the Sanctum (I forgot the name...) that he visits is a rather Beta environment. Follow the rules, eliminate threats, and serve a higher purpose. Strange was just like uhhhh... no. I just want my hands fixed. Lol.


I feel like this is kind of missing the point. Initially yes, it was about him fixing his hands so he could get back into his work, but after the initial stage when he actually managed to work out how the powers worked properly, he almost completely forgot about his hands.


----------



## Immolate

owlet said:


> I feel like this is kind of missing the point. Initially yes, it was about him fixing his hands so he could get back into his work, but after the initial stage when he actually managed to work out how the powers worked properly, he almost completely forgot about his hands.


I wouldn't say he forgot about his hands. I think he was very aware of them and of their deficiency, but he chose to sacrifice them in order to serve something higher than himself.

Are we talking about the same thing, though? roud:


----------



## owlet

lets mosey said:


> I wouldn't say he forgot about his hands. I think he was very aware of them and of their deficiency, but he chose to sacrifice them in order to serve something higher than himself.
> 
> Are we talking about the same thing, though? roud:


Oh no, this was what I meant - kind of forgetting the whole aim of his journey there because he gained perspective! (What is phrasing)


----------



## Pinina

What about LSE? Saw that somewhere. Seems like the discussion is only between Se ego and LIE. 

Isn't that part of Se demonstrative? Not having the patience to wait for the hands to heal and get better (Ni), so he takes the matter in his own hands (literally) and tries to fix it himself. Does seem like demonstrative rushing in to save the day when polr expected.


----------



## Immolate

Pinina said:


> What about LSE? Saw that somewhere. Seems like the discussion is only between Se ego and LIE.
> 
> Isn't that part of Se demonstrative? Not having the patience to wait for the hands to heal and get better (Ni), so he takes the matter in his own hands (literally) and tries to fix it himself. Does seem like demonstrative rushing in to save the day when polr expected.


My impression is that he values Se and Ni in some fashion but I'm curious to see where this goes.


----------



## owlet

Pinina said:


> What about LSE? Saw that somewhere. Seems like the discussion is only between Se ego and LIE.
> 
> Isn't that part of Se demonstrative? Not having the patience to wait for the hands to heal and get better (Ni), so he takes the matter in his own hands (literally) and tries to fix it himself. Does seem like demonstrative rushing in to save the day when polr expected.


Si ego seems odd to me, but I would like to hear solid reasoning for it!

This is Se in LSE from Wikisocion:


> LSEs prefer to maintain a steady rhythm and energy output, avoiding projects that require a great deal of energy for a short period of time, or courses of action that are clearly ridden with obstacles.
> They try not to be too forceful, controlling, or demanding and try to avoid coming across this way. They may, however, show brief flashes of protectiveness and confrontation if they have been attacked in any way.
> LSEs have a clear awareness of how they look to those around them. They craft their appearance and their belongings to create an impression that is welcoming and approachable rather than eye-catching or status-oriented.


----------



## SheWolf

owlet said:


> I feel like this is kind of missing the point. Initially yes, it was about him fixing his hands so he could get back into his work, but after the initial stage when he actually managed to work out how the powers worked properly, he almost completely forgot about his hands.


He spends the whole movie bitching about his hands, though??? Lol. I would never say he once forgot about his hands. It is a Marvel film, where they spend little time speculating on the character development and cram action scenes in every few minutes.

Actually, closer to the end when it was explained to him what the true purpose of the sorcerer's was to protect the earth, he literally says he wants no part of it. But, think as you wish. I only watched the film once and that's the evidence I've gathered. Several people I've discussed this with outside of here agree with me as well, so LIE is what I'm going with. I've yet to see anything that would sway away from the typing since it was more obvious to me.


----------



## SheWolf

Pinina said:


> What about LSE? Saw that somewhere. Seems like the discussion is only between Se ego and LIE.
> 
> Isn't that part of Se demonstrative? Not having the patience to wait for the hands to heal and get better (Ni), so he takes the matter in his own hands (literally) and tries to fix it himself. Does seem like demonstrative rushing in to save the day when polr expected.


 Oh no, he's definitely Decisive > Judicious. That's not really being debated here lol.


----------



## Verity

lets mosey said:


> Agreed. What stands out to me the most is his moment with Strange while he's restrained. Otherwise his character lacked development.
> 
> That said, I wonder what you mean by "impersonal," because if I remember correctly, Kaecilius was broken by the death of his loved ones (Mordo made mention of something to that effect), and it was that personal hurt that drove him to seek the teachings and try to overcome death/time.


Well, everyone has personal motivations and capacity for vengeance, but it usually manifests differently in the quadras. Betas are more likely to start/follow an impersonal movement/ideology involving change and Gammas are more likely to have the personal attitude of "an eye for an eye". His seemed to be the former. Like I said though, I'm not at all certain of LSI since it's a bit of a chicken or the egg situation for me still.



owlet said:


> Could you elaborate on why this is Ni in particular?


It's not Ni as much as it's strong intuition and logic. More specifically, the ability to see where things will go and grasp of concepts, the ability to consider alternative possibilities, understanding of structure, and the algorithmic reasoning of "if I do this, then". 
* *




All these he utilizes to beat Dormammu, without relying on prior experience.



It's indicative of Ni because I think we can safely say that he's not an Alpha NT.


> I disagree with SEE being the only choice for Se base.
> 
> * *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He disregards society's rules, but he is very attached to his own understanding of how things work. Look at the scene where he's talking to the Ancient One for the first time and is dismissing everything she says because it doesn't tie into his understanding of reality - he's not open to new concepts until he's thrown into them physically to see that they are, in fact, actual reality, which then forces him to change his view on how things work. His Ti would be creative, so there more to back up his Se, which is where he's focused on getting an immediate result or impact in the real world.
> What you described above for Fi with the hug would be more likely to refer to Fe, with a discomfort around overt emotional displays, but does try to engage with people by creating a more light-hearted atmosphere (cracking jokes) even though they often fail.


It seemed as if he wasn't attached to his own understanding as much as he was attached to the external standard of what is deemed logically possible, which is completely in line with Te-ego.

Concerning your last point: LIE's have 1D Fi and 2D Fe, which means that you frequently see Fe coming from them since they lack understanding of how to actually connect. Strange however does no take Fe seriously. Compare him to Hank in Breaking Bad, an actual SLE, and how hurt he is when people don't respond to his attempts at using it. (Could only find one example, sorry) 
[video]https://youtu.be/8kH6TVP3wIY?t=362[/video]

When people who don't value Fe try to use it and people don't respond positively, they usually shrug it off immediately because to them it's just playing around. I'd look for an example, but I think the movie provides quite a few.(Strange's initial meeting with Wong, f'rex.)

Can you provide an argument for him having Beta Quadra values?


----------



## SheWolf

lets mosey said:


> I'm not making an argument for 4D Se. I'm merely stating that the man is not clumsy, certainly not in the way you seem to describe him. He didn't strike me as having crappy physical prowess, either, but that's in comparison to my own prowess, lol.


 Mmm... I think you're not quite getting what I mean by clumsy. I don't mean it in the literal sense. I mean he's not that great at really asserting himself, making things bend to go his way. They made this a humorous point in the movie, like them saying he's been begging outside the door for 5 hours to let him back into the sanctum. Se HA is more like a person trying to assert themselves too much for the situation and doing so in a way that others find pathetic.


----------



## SheWolf

I think Cumberbatch has high Fe.






I know a guy IRL that met him at a con (Cumberbatch actually accidentally knocked him over, LOL) He said Benedict was a jolly guy and a "real hoot."

He's such a doll, lol _**Swoons**_


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## Immolate

Verity said:


> Well, everyone has personal motivations and capacity for vengeance, but it usually manifests differently in the quadras. Betas are more likely to start/follow an impersonal movement/ideology involving change and Gammas are more likely to have the personal attitude of "an eye for an eye". His seemed to be the former. Like I said though, I'm not at all certain of LSI since it's a bit of a chicken or the egg situation for me still.


I understand, but I wanted to better understand if you meant he had no personal motivation other than belief and adherence to certain principles. If you do manage to come to a conclusion about his type, perhaps after a second viewing, I'd be interested in your thoughts.


----------



## Immolate

Thorn said:


> *Mmm... I think you're not quite getting what I mean by clumsy. I don't mean it in the literal sense.* I mean he's not that great at really asserting himself, making things bend to go his way. They made this a humorous point in the movie, like them saying he's been begging outside the door for 5 hours to let him back into the sanctum. Se HA is more like a person trying to assert themselves too much for the situation and doing so in a way that others find pathetic.


Oh, come now, don't do that.

Yes, I understand that Se is not literally about pushing a boulder up a mountain.


----------



## FearAndTrembling

George W Bush is an ILE. I know he is not fictional, but probably should be. But that is what an ENTP male looks like. lol.


----------



## Verity

Tad Cooper said:


> This is shown in the first part of the film, with him refusing standard/boring/easy 'projects' as patients. He likes to try new things with his work all the time, and anything that's routine he adds to i.e. the music games he was playing in the opening.
> Note - he tolerates repetition to succeed in society.
> 
> This is more when he's at the temple. Although he rejects the spirituality that he understands as being false (Ti) he easily accepts the magic idea once it's shown to him and then he tries out a ton of different areas, always pushing for new potential and looking into areas most people don't. He figures out the potential of the time device as well (he sees it as novel, then works out how to use it to its full potential).
> 
> He has to know how things work - he wants explanations for everything and then wants to test it to the full extent. Shown with the magic scenes.


All of this can also be attributed to an LIE with the impulsive EJ temperament as well as Se-valuing; enjoying the kick of new physical experiences(the first part of the movie was a real Se extravaganza) vs enjoying the prospect of new possibilities that might not be applicable or realistic(Ne). Attributing his rejection of spirituality as false to Ti exclusively doesn't make sense since Te is just as, if not more, likely to reject whatever is generally not seen as logically possible, while Ti-egos reject things because they're not logically consistent based on a deductive understanding. LIE's have 4D Ne as well, and use it to "scan" for new areas of possibility for a rational goal, although I wonder if anyone who discovered that magic was real would be able not to try things just for entertainment, lol. And I disagree that he had to know how things worked, and I remember it because it seemed weird that someone wouldn't at least want to understand the basics before delving in. Contrary to the other people at the sanctum, he didn't care at all for the principles, he just tried things to test his own ability. He actually ignored the step-by-step process, which could have backfired at him badly.



Thorn said:


> @Verity
> I'm curious, what do you type the rest of the main Marvel characters?
> 
> I've only seen more thorough explanations for Thor (SEE) and Loki (Beta NF)
> Ive seen different arguments for other characters, however.


I don't really feel like building any strong cases, but these are my impressions based on nothing more specific than my sense of character-archetype:
Thor: LSE(could be SEE I guess, it's one of the type archetypes I have trouble differentiating)
Loki: Ni-creative, probably EIE
Captain America: SLI
Black Widow: LSE
Tony Stark: LIE
Black Panther: ESI
Bruce Banner: ILI
Scarlet Witch: EII (her brother could be an SEE)
Spiderman: Intuitive Fi-type
Nick Fury: Beta ST, probably SLE
Hawkeye: who cares
Wolverine: LSE but he's kinda inconsistently written
Professor X: EII
Magneto: LSI
Mystique: ESI

I also think Joss Whedon(writer of the _Avengers_ films) is a Delta(IEE?)


----------



## SheWolf

Verity said:


> Thor: LSE(could be SEE I guess, it's one of the type archetypes I have trouble differentiating)


I think SEE fits a little better. I had someone on Facebook give me thorough reasoning, but it'd be a hassle to dig up since it was like a month ago.



> Loki: Ni-creative, probably EIE


Agree. They make fun of his lack of physical prowess as well.











(Especially at 1:55)

Tom Hiddleston himself is usually typed at IEI.



> Captain America: SLI


No wonder I find him boring. 



> Nick Fury: Beta ST, probably SLE


Agree. 



> Hawkeye: who cares


Lmao




> I also think Joss Whedon(writer of the _Avengers_ films) is a Delta(IEE?)


 Yes, he is.


----------



## Tad Cooper

FearAndTrembling said:


> George W Bush is an ILE. *I know he is not fictional, but probably should be*. But that is what an ENTP male looks like. lol.


I laughed so much....


----------



## FearAndTrembling

Tad Cooper said:


> I laughed so much....



I think you are the only person who laughs at my jokes besides me. lol. You have good taste.


----------



## Immolate

Thorn said:


> Agree. They make fun of his lack of physical prowess as well.


At least this is obvious to me, lol.

Not sure what to say about Thor. I mostly remember him from the first film.


----------



## Verity

Thorn said:


> Tom Hiddleston himself is usually typed at IEI.


I think he's an EII. If you google quotes of his, most of them shows a focus on potential and possibility. This quote alone displays an attitude of almost stereotypical Fi blocked with Ne: 

When asked what he had learned from his career:

_-I think I've learned that we contain more possibility than we are perhaps tought, that we have within us more potential for so many more things than contemporary society, perhaps, would allow for. Because all the characters I've played are me... But they're also not me. And yet, within myself I've had to find the possibility of all those people.
And really, it has just made me feel more connected to people, it's made me feel like we are all actually made... 
That so, I believe the power of cinema and theatre and television is to connect people, and to unite us in our humanity, I think when it's truly really great, that's what it can do, yeah._




He has a great acting range, and I've enjoyed his films ever since I saw him in _Only Lovers Left Alive_ where he plays an ILI 4w5. He might actually be a healthy 4w5, come to think of it. He usually seems to play Gamma characters though, with the exception of Loki?


----------



## owlet

How about Harry Potter as LSE?


> They tend to freely comment on that which is pointless, poorly done, bound to fail, and all manifestations of unprofessionalism, as well as offer numerous tips and pointers for how these things can be improved.





> LSEs' approach to life is practical and realistic.





> LSEs try hard to be people of their word. They remember agreements made and do not take promises lightly. They judge other people by how conscientious and reliable they are in interaction and cooperation. LSEs expect people to say what they mean and do what they say. As their innate understanding of personality is not very fine-tuned, they judge others' character more by their objective deeds than by their attitudes and motives, which can be hard for the LSE to discern.





> LSEs typically love recreation with a physical element, such as picnics, walking, hiking, sports, etc. They recognize the need to relax and unwind and typically plan these activities into their schedule at regular intervals and involve other people in the activities.





> LSEs themselves are typically innovative and inventive in practical matters ( +  inventiveness), but much less so in their worldviews, which tend to change only slightly over time.


----------



## Tad Cooper

lets mosey said:


> lol.
> 
> It didn't seem incompetent to me at the time, but the comparison to Thor and Cap really does bring it to light.
> 
> 
> We've got @*Tad Cooper* with the Alpha NT typing.
> 
> Skimming:
> 
> 
> 
> It seemed to me less about novelty and more about building or maintaining his prestige, avoiding failures, etc.


That's just 3 enneagram though?



Thorn said:


> Note: The Ancient One commented that his fear of failing has been what has held him back


(enneagram 3)





Verity said:


> All of this can also be attributed to an LIE with the impulsive EJ temperament as well as Se-valuing; enjoying the kick of new physical experiences(the first part of the movie was a real Se extravaganza) vs enjoying the prospect of new possibilities that might not be applicable or realistic(Ne). Attributing his rejection of spirituality as false to* Ti exclusively doesn't make sense since Te is just as, if not more, likely to reject whatever is generally not seen as logically possible, while Ti-egos reject things because they're not logically consistent based on a deductive understanding*. LIE's have 4D Ne as well, and use it to "scan" for new areas of possibility for a rational goal, although I wonder if anyone who discovered that magic was real would be able not to try things just for entertainment, lol. And I disagree that he had to know how things worked, and I remember it because it seemed weird that *someone wouldn't at least want to understand the basics before delving in.* Contrary to the other people at the sanctum, he didn't care at all for the principles, he just tried things to test his own ability. He actually ignored the step-by-step process, which could have backfired at him badly.


I'm not sure what you're saying with Se Ve Ne - it could be either?
The bold bit: he does accept it once it makes sense to him, even though the external world wouldnt accept it as logical (magic defies logic and all known things - Ti could accept it if it was made to make sense, Te would struggle to accept it more I think. He accepts it very quickly once it makes sense to him).
Second bold bit: That's why it seems Ne core.
The whole working completely differently to everyone else goes with what I posted Ne-Ti.
(I'm not against Se, but he seems more Ne-Ti to me!)


----------



## Tad Cooper

FearAndTrembling said:


> I think you are the only person who laughs at my jokes besides me. lol. You have good taste.


They're good jokes!! (I hurt my ribs so laughing painful, but I appreciate the humour a lot!!)


----------



## Verity

Tad Cooper said:


> I'm not sure what you're saying with Se Ve Ne - it could be either?


Yes, I'm saying that the arguments you provided doesn't exclude Se and Te valuing. What you should ask yourself is wether he seemed to focus more on experiencing things in reality and reaching results or entertaining theoretical ideas that might not be applicable or realistic. Purely comparing a character to a type-description can be bad because you easily bend the evidence to fit the description(and descriptions also tend to be pretty vague). It's better to look at the underlying reasons _why_ a certain type is described that way and socionics actually goes into depth about this(unlike MBTI).


> The bold bit: he does accept it once it makes sense to him, even though the external world wouldnt accept it as logical (magic defies logic and all known things - Ti could accept it if it was made to make sense, Te would struggle to accept it more I think. He accepts it very quickly once it makes sense to him).


Te tends to rely on empiricism, and he never really acknowledges that it's true, just that it may work. He doesn't really have a choice because of his desperation(and because the story necessitates that he does, since it wouldn't be much of a movie if he left the sanctum deciding it's all bullshit).


> Second bold bit: That's why it seems Ne core.


Could you explain specifically how it indicates that? 

Could just as equally be EJ temperament, and fits Vortical-Synergetic cognition very well, imo.


> The whole working completely differently to everyone else goes with what I posted Ne-Ti.
> (I'm not against Se, but he seems more Ne-Ti to me!)


Working different from other people just means he likely doesn't value the same IE's as them. Place two Alphas together and they will likely approach a project in a more similar fashion than an Alpha and a Gamma who share IE strength.


----------



## SheWolf

Verity said:


> I think he's an EII. If you google quotes of his, most of them shows a focus on potential and possibility. This quote alone displays an attitude of almost stereotypical Fi blocked with Ne:
> 
> When asked what he had learned from his career:
> 
> _-I think I've learned that we contain more possibility than we are perhaps tought, that we have within us more potential for so many more things than contemporary society, perhaps, would allow for. Because all the characters I've played are me... But they're also not me. And yet, within myself I've had to find the possibility of all those people.
> And really, it has just made me feel more connected to people, it's made me feel like we are all actually made...
> That so, I believe the power of cinema and theatre and television is to connect people, and to unite us in our humanity, I think when it's truly really great, that's what it can do, yeah._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He has a great acting range, and I've enjoyed his films ever since I saw him in _Only Lovers Left Alive_ where he plays an ILI 4w5. He might actually be a healthy 4w5, come to think of it. He usually seems to play Gamma characters though, with the exception of Loki?


The Socionics group I'm in has apparently discussed his type many times before I was a part of it and concluded IEI from what I was told, since I posted about it today actually. Perhaps I'll ask about why at some point, but I get the impression that for them it would be beating a dead horse.


----------



## SheWolf

lets mosey said:


> At least this is obvious to me, lol.
> 
> Not sure what to say about Thor. I mostly remember him from the first film.


They make it more obvious for Loki because he was the main villain. lol.


----------



## Verity

Thorn said:


> The Socionics group I'm in has apparently discussed his type many times before I was a part of it and concluded IEI from what I was told, since I posted about it today actually. Perhaps I'll ask about why at some point, but I get the impression that for them it would be beating a dead horse.


I've seen nothing that really suggests IEI besides him being able to act like one, and privately he seems overwhelmingly Delta NF. Superficially you can just compare him to Loki, lol.


----------



## FearAndTrembling

If Te relies on empiricism I cannot think of a single person on this forum who values Te besides maybe myself.

Cuz, all this empirical data in Socionics. Just buried in it. lol. It is the least empirical thing one could come up with.

But I know I will never get an answer from supposed Te users as to what practical value or empirical evidence Socionics provides. Cuz, that would be, like, actually Te valuing.


----------



## SheWolf

Verity said:


> I've seen nothing that really suggests IEI besides him being able to act like one, and privately he seems overwhelmingly Delta NF. Superficially you can just compare him to Loki, lol.


IEI feels kinda off to me anyway.

I love his work and think he's talented, but watching his interviews he just seems overwhelmingly bland and I don't agree with 95% of his world views. So EII wouldn't surprise me. Some of his quotations did seem like Delta values.


----------



## Scarlet Eyes

@Verity I see you typed Thor as an LSE. Could you explain your reasoning behind that? He seems more of an SEE to me.


----------



## Immolate

Scarlet Eyes said:


> @*Verity* I see you typed Thor as an LSE. Could you explain your reasoning behind that? He seems more of an SEE to me.


----------



## Verity

Scarlet Eyes said:


> @Verity I see you typed Thor as an LSE. Could you explain your reasoning behind that? He seems more of an SEE to me.


Not really, that typing should be taken more as a quess. If I'd have to rationalize it, it seemed like he's a little too restrained in his use of force, but I wouldn't actually argue against SEE.

Edit: Also, something that is used for comical effect in the films is him failing to adjust himself to behaving appropriately in the human world, but that might be grasping at straws since people may at times ignore their creative IE.


----------



## Scarlet Eyes

Verity said:


> Not really, that typing should be taken more as a quess. If I'd have to rationalize it, *it seemed like he's a little too restrained in his use of force,* but I wouldn't actually argue against SEE.


It seems like the exact opposite in the films. Thor was all too eager to relish the use of force. His only use of strategy was rushing headlong into battle and smashing his enemies out of the way. Thor has a hard time separating the difference between being a king and being a warrior. Plus, several of the characters even commented on his thirst for war. After all, his rashness and lack of foresight was the main reason he got banished from Asgard.


----------

