# ENTJ/ISTJ/something else?



## Noir (Jun 20, 2014)

Thanks for helping me out. I am confused between ISTJ, ENTJ or even something with Ti dominant. I'm really grateful for your help.

1) What aspect of your personality made you unsure of your type?

My fickleness. My enneagram might have a play into this as well. I find it interesting that I can type others somewhat accurately and yet I can't type myself. I'm also a bit confused by the intuition part: according to MBTI, I am 110% intuitive, but when I look at the functions, I don't find myself in Ni nor in Ne that much (I do to a degree, but I feel that far too weak to be dom or aux). Thing is, the functions I find myself closest to are Te and Ti, which doesn't imply any particular type.

2) What do you yearn for in life? Why?

I've always wanted to be a detective, solving murders. Other than that, I pretty much wish everything. I want to experiment about everything in life, from the atrocities of war to the fundamentals of physics and the discovery of other places.

3) Think about a time where you felt like you were at your finest. Tell us what made you feel that way.

This probably has to do with my enneagram, but in general, I feel at my best after completing a lot of hard, almost impossible tasks. I felt good about myself, almost proud because I did not think I was capable of that. In general, I like surpassing myself. I also like doing this while having friends there to support me, even though I generally prefer working alone at a task. Nothing compares itself with enjoying a drink with friends with which you've risked your neck together.

4) What makes you feel inferior?

Feeling incompetent. I am frustrated when I am unable to do anything in a certain situation due to my incompetence. Am also kind of hard on myself.

5) What tends to weigh on your decisions? (Do you think about people, pro-cons, how you feel about it, etc.)

I think about pro's and con's, more than I think about people, but I also think about people. Generally, I prefer not sacrificing people's interest, and most of the time, I usually find a way to combine efficiency with others' interest. If unable to, however, I can also sacrifice people, but not very easily. I generally prefer putting my feelings aside.

6) When working on a project what is normally your emphasis? Do you like to have control of the outcome?

Yes, I like to have control of the outcome and am constantly pushing for that outcome. I emphasis on the project being as good as possible, but I also try to have fun while doing it. 

7) Describe us a time where you had a lot of fun. How is your memory of it? 

Playing video games cooperatively with a friend of mine in childhood.. I only remember it being fun, not the details of it. I remember a certain situation where I had to continuously drive around the map to pick-up my friend who was being pinned down by the enemy fire. I would drive fast through there and he'd try to get into the car, while sometimes we'd both be blown to smithereens. It was hard, but we had fun.

8) When you want to learn something new, what feels more natural for you? (Are you more prone to be hands on, to theorize, to memorize, etc)
I like taking my time to read through and get an overall picture of the thing. I never was good at memorizing things, I generally attempt to put everything into perspective. Sometimes, when I am having difficulties, I fantasize about various concepts, creating characters or settings out of them. (Ex. thinking about the enneagram as being the nine circles of hell).

9) How organized do you to think of yourself as?

Moderately. I have a slight preference for being organized, but I am not particularly closed to chaos. 

10) How do you judge new ideas? You try to understand the principles behind it to see if they make sense or do you look for information that supports it?

I guess I try putting it into perspective, seeing if it makes sense. If it makes sense logically, it is fine by me.

11) You find harmony by making sure everyone is doing fine and belonging to a given group or by making sure that you follow what you believe and being yourself?

First option (everyone is doing fine).

12) Are you the kind that thinks before speaking or do you speak before thinking? Do you prefer one-on-one communication or group discussions?

I speak before I think. I generally prefer one-on-one discussions. 

13) Do you jump into action right away or do you like to know where are you jumping before leaping? Does action speaks more than words?

I like to know where I am leaping, and I believe actions speak louder than words because they are proof of something, while words are merely words without any substance if not followed by deeds.

14) It's Saturday. You're at home, and your favorite show is about to start. Your friends call you for a night out. What will you do?

Depends. In general, I'd go with my friends. By friends, I mean one or two close friends, so I am not really sure about my extroversion. Besides, I can always download or watch the show online. 

15) How do you act when you're stressed out?

I withdraw myself and try to channel all of my energy on handling the stress.

16) What makes you dislike the personalities of some people?

I dislike the people that try to order me around, especially when they are incompetent. I hate people that lack common sense.

17) Is there anything you really like talking about with other people?

Not necessarily. I can usually adapt myself and talk to just about everything, as long as the other party is interested in the topic. In general, I like laughing in conversations. 

18) What kind of things do pay the least attention to in your life?

My surroundings. I could live the entire life in one place and never notice some things. Ex. I still don't know all of my classmates from my group from college, even though 4 months have already passed.

19) How do your friends perceive you? What is wrong about their perception? ? What would your friends never say about your personality ?

My friends perceive me as a smart, optimistic and capable guy, I guess. I am not all that optimistic, but I like thinking that I can handle just about anything. I guess they would say just about anything.

20) You got a whole day to do whatever you like. What kind of activities do you feel like doing?

Prepare myself for future tasks, work out a little and go out with a friend or two.


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## Noir (Jun 20, 2014)

Anyone care to help?


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## Apple Pine (Nov 27, 2014)

As far as I know tertiary intuition function -> believing that you have a very strong intuition, and estj has one. If I'm wrong, correct me


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## Noir (Jun 20, 2014)

Answer said:


> As far as I know tertiary intuition function -> believing that you have a very strong intuition, and estj has one. If I'm wrong, correct me


Well, I've never heard that having tertiary intuition gives you a strong impression of one. Besides, ESTJ's aren't the only type with that.


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## TyranAmiros (Jul 7, 2014)

1. Lower-level Ne
2. Te and weak Fi
3. Te and Fi
4. Te
5. Te and low, low Fi
6. Te
7. Te, possible Si
8. Te, Ne
9. Te
10. Te, Ne
11. Normally, that's the Fe answer, but I think it's more evidence of Te-dominant. You're a natural administrator.
12. Yep, Te is the dominant function.
13. Te again
14. Inferior Fi
15. Inferior Fi
16. More Dominant Te 
17. Possible Ne-Si process

Basically, ExTJ are the only two options you should consider. Te-dominant, Fi inferior is so clear. Every answer points to it. Now, between ENTJ and ESTJ I'm less clear--your answers are great at demonstrating your judging functions, but the perception functions are somewhat vague. So let me ask:

1. When a problem emerges, do you (a) draw on experience to come up with a new solution to the problem, or (b) do you implement a solution you've already prepared for?
2. When trying to understand the big picture, do you (a) rely more on your own experiences and extrapolate new extensions from them (say by drawing analogies) or (b) do you feel like you understand it suddenly/all at once and desire to test out whether you have it correct?
3. When you're writing a report or technical document, do you (a) put yourself in the place of an end-user and anticipate what they are likely to do/need/respond, or (b) express yourself in your own words, and hope that they will just ask questions if they have any--it's more important to express the idea precisely.

Please feel free to elaborate on these questions--the more we can get at how you take in information (perception) the easier it'll be to tell which is a better fit. In any case, the fact that you're very clearly a Te-dominant is what's driving your confusion--everything is being filtered through Te, and Te needs this sort of empirical process to make a conclusion.


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## Noir (Jun 20, 2014)

TyranAmiros said:


> 1. Lower-level Ne
> 2. Te and weak Fi
> 3. Te and Fi
> 4. Te
> ...


First of all, thanks for taking the time to help me sort this through, I really appreciate the help, so don't get me wrong. Don't interpret this as being offensive in any kind.

I disagree with some parts showing Te. E.g., you typed 2 as Te, and I believe that in general, detective work is more associated with Ti than Te. It almost feels like you chose a pattern of twisting things (unconsciously) to make out Te out of everything. The most coherent example lies in this:



> > > 11. Normally, that's the Fe answer, but I think it's more evidence of Te-dominant. You're a natural administrator.


This is somewhat baseless. I don't really think of myself as a Te dom because I never found myself being a natural administrator. I am more of an individualist, and I never really found myself in leading positions as EXTJ's do.

Furthermore, I read about the difference of issuing orders between "J" and "P". J's tend to be more direct as in "give me that, do that etc" while P's use the suggestion method "We should remove that, X needs to be done, the room is very dirty etc". I find myself using the latter method most of the time. 

Besides, I am not entirely sure I am even an extrovert.

I was actually leaning a bit towards INTP. At any rate, I shall answer your questions:

1. I usually tend to consider the problems that could arise beforehand. I like thinking about various ways things could go and having a plan for every possibility. I try making mental simulations of things and making out different possibilities and sketching various responses for them. However, I don't waste too much time with that. I prepare myself, but when it's time to go, it's time to go.

2. I am not exactly sure. In a way, I do both. For example I recently switched from ITF taekwon-do to Kickboxing. It wasn't long before I realized the principles were the same and that I only need to get some adjustments. Naturally, this was done through comparing it with my experience, but I believe this to be something natural.

On the other hand, I've had the latter happen to me as well, more often than using experience, but not extremely often. I've also had weird hunches. I had to chose the right answer and do an essay about it. I chose the wrong answer and started the essay, but then I've suddenly had a feeling that shouted "this is wrong". I followed my hunch and I got the wrong answer, but this was 1 hour before the time limit. Not sure a judger would change his response last minute based on a mere hunch. 

3. I've never been in a position to do, so I don't know, but putting myself in the place of the other party seems the option I'd go with.


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## TyranAmiros (Jul 7, 2014)

Noir said:


> First of all, thanks for taking the time to help me sort this through, I really appreciate the help, so don't get me wrong. Don't interpret this as being offensive in any kind.
> 
> I disagree with some parts showing Te. E.g., you typed 2 as Te, and I believe that in general, detective work is more associated with Ti than Te. It almost feels like you chose a pattern of twisting things (unconsciously) to make out Te out of everything. The most coherent example lies in this:
> 
> This is somewhat baseless. I don't really think of myself as a Te dom because I never found myself being a natural administrator. I am more of an individualist, and I never really found myself in leading positions as EXTJ's do..


First, no offense taken, but I am going to disagree with some of your assertions 

I don't think your answers lead you to INTP. You come across as far too certain and brief for a Ti-dominant. Where's the reflection? The deliberation? The interpretation? IxTPs tend to have a refrain of "If you mean..." or "Thinking of it in this way..." You take clear, precise, and strong stances on every question. Statements like "I usually find a way to combine efficiency with others' interest" I find to be very Te-Fi where a Ti-Fe answer would read more like, "I think about what makes sense to me, but I'm sensitive to what others tell me about it."

Detective work, with its strong emphasis on cross-confirmation, deductive reasoning, piecing together clues to arrive at a conclusion, reliance on remembering detail and inconsistency is generally considered strongly Te. For good detectives, the hunch (Ni/Si) should be the product of the investigation (Te), not prior to it (as it is for Ti-Se/Ne; TPs search out confirmation). It's why ENTP Sean Spenser from Psych makes such a poor detective in a traditional sense--he works from a hunch/conclusion into the evidence, which wastes a lot of time on false leads. His ESTJ father or ISTJ Detective Lassiter are much better at actually being detectives. Also see: Extraverted Thinking (Te) in INTJs & ENTJs

On question 11, how the answers correspond to the functions is not always clear for thinkers--especially when there's not a lot of answer to go off of. But again, the lack of reflection on the question for that reason also speaks to particular functions; were I answering that question, I'd need at least a paragraph reflecting on neither answer is good and how I'd write the question. However, quite a few Te users choose the first option because their concept of "social harmony" is imposing their Te vision on the group. Everyone is doing fine because everyone is doing what the Te-user wants them to do. I don't particularly like this question but that's how I've seen quite a few Te users answer this question.



> Furthermore, I read about the difference of issuing orders between "J" and "P". J's tend to be more direct as in "give me that, do that etc" while P's use the suggestion method "We should remove that, X needs to be done, the room is very dirty etc". I find myself using the latter method most of the time.
> 
> Besides, I am not entirely sure I am even an extrovert.


I've never heard that about J/P but it seems to me highly suspect. I'm also not thinking in terms of the dichotomies, and Fe and Te users are very different in terms of how they issue commands. And technically, IxTJs are perceiving-dominant while IxTPs are judging-dominant. 

In terms of the cognitive function approach, all extravert (notice the spelling) vs introvert refers to is the dominant function. Nothing to do with being outgoing, a good leader, liking being around people. Most ENTPs are more introverted in that sense than ISFPs. They still lead with Ne. And throughout the course of our lives, as we develop different functions, this changes. I used to be very quiet and reserved. Then, around the age of 16, my Ne started kicking in and I became a person many would call "extroverted". I definitely lead with Ti, but I've worked to develop Ne and Fe to succeed in social situations. So when I call you "extraverted" all I mean is that Te seems to me to be the function you use most.

I think ENTJ is probably the right fit.


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## Noir (Jun 20, 2014)

@TyranAmiros

Thanks again for the answer.



> (notice the spelling)


Both extrovert and extravert are correct. Look.



> ENTPs are more introverted in that sense than ISFPs. They still lead with Ne. And throughout the course of our lives, as we develop different functions, this changes. I used to be very quiet and reserved. Then, around the age of 16, my Ne started kicking in and I became a person many would call "extroverted". I definitely lead with Ti, but I've worked to develop Ne and Fe to succeed in social situations. So when I call you "extraverted" all I mean is that Te seems to me to be the function you use most.


I understand, but having an extroverted dominant function makes one more in-tune to the external world. As a child, I didn't really go out, neither did I feel the need to do so. Only in the past few years have I become more preoccupied with the external world. This makes me reconsider my dominant function. I actually relate to your experience. I am not particularly adamant about being INTP, but I feel as if my dominant function is an introverted one. 

I know this is contradictory, but I've also recently considered ENTP, maybe with enneagram type 5, which could explain my solitary tendencies. I have a particularly goofy side and I'm usually rather lighthearted... Damn it, I now realize I am taking description too much into account. 

I've no idea what function I use. I feel that, if looked at a different angle, I use every function. I am quite frustrated with this. I also don't feel like I am ENTJ. I'm actually having problems being assertive, I never found myself in position to administer others and I just don't really relate to it.

Could you provide me with hints as to how to discern my functions? I read a lot about them, but the more I read, the more confused I am.

Also, for some reason, I think I could be an ENTP. Mainly because I like playing devils advocate a lot, and I relate to the particular ENTP vibe. Thoughts?


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## TyranAmiros (Jul 7, 2014)

Noir said:


> @TyranAmiros
> 
> I understand, but having an extroverted dominant function makes one more in-tune to the external world. As a child, I didn't really go out, neither did I feel the need to do so. Only in the past few years have I become more preoccupied with the external world. This makes me reconsider my dominant function. I actually relate to your experience. I am not particularly adamant about being INTP, but I feel as if my dominant function is an introverted one.
> 
> ...


Give Personality Junkie: Type, Careers, Relationships & More! a try--they have some of the best descriptions online. I have his book on INTPs an I find it a constant source of inspiration, especially where he talks about the difficulties INTPs have with sharing their inner worlds with others and how we often sabotage ourselves in the interplay between Ti and Fe. 

I should have also ascertained your age; age plays a major role in functional development. IN general, we start developing our dominant functions (and even our inferiors) at birth, but the auxiliary generally "kicks in" in your teenage years and the tertiary is something that may not be fully developed even into your late 20s. Sure, there are differences between, say, INFP and ISFP children, but they tend to grow more pronounced as they get into their late teens and early 20s. I like using Daria (INFP) and Jane (ISFP) from MTV's show Daria as examples: when we meet them both at 16, their strong dominant Fi attitude toward the world helps them bond. But as they approach 18, Daria's growing Ne leads her to misinterpret her own actions, while Jane's Se leads her to pick fights with Daria. I see you're Generation Z--that means you're likely in your late teens/early 20s and going through this. 

I don't agree with the assertion that having an extraverted dominant function makes one more in-tune with the external world. That's what sensing vs. intuition is about; intuitives see the world as it might be (Ne) or really is (Ni), while sensors see the world as a series of physical experiences (Se) or impressions (Si). To me, that sort of statement would indicate you're not a dominant sensor, but what exactly do you mean? I might be misunderstanding this.

What is true is that extraverts want to put something out for others to respond to while introverts take in those energies being put out. So while an ENTP has no filter between his ideas and the expression of them--every ENTP I know has a hard time not playing devil's advocate, even for an unsavory position--the INTP's Ti doesn't let her Ne ideas get out without passing the Ti judgment test. Where the ENTP is often, "We should just do...", the INTP is more often, "If we think about it in this way, there's an argument one could make for..." The INTP expends more energy in that way--thinking carefully about wording and context--where the ENTP just wants to put it out there for the world to respond. Similarly, ESTJs really don't think when they're issuing orders or commands (dominant Te), but ISTJs need to make sure it's contextually appropriate (Si).

Finally, what makes you think ENTP? I'm not saying you're not ENTP, but I'll be surprised if you don't have Te somewhere in your functional stack. There's too much in your answers about liking control, wanting things to be done right, and wanting to know the consequences. Maybe I'm inverting Te and Fi, and you should be looking toward the FP types, but IMO you're putting Te forward as one of your extraverted functions. 

Here are some common questions for ENTP:
Do you break rules because you can't stand how illogical those rules are? 
Do you argue against positions just because you can, regardless of who you might offend (because you talk your way out of it)? 
Do you struggle to make serious decisions, but then hastily rush into things and spend the next few days rethinking your decision? 
Do you find yourself actively not preparing for things because you do your best work while in the moment? 
Do others have difficulty following what you're saying (and even you have trouble following yourself sometimes) because the thoughts are literally coming out before you even know what you're going to say? 
Do you often worry that others might find you hot-headed and off-putting because when you get started on a rant you can't seem to stop yourself?


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## Noir (Jun 20, 2014)

@TyranAmiros

Well, ENFP has both Ne and Te. 

Age: turning 20 next week.



> I might be misunderstanding this.


I meant that having an extroverted dominant function will cause people to exhibit typical extraverted (notice the spelling) behavior. 
I don't have a large web of friends, and I prefer meeting with fewer people. I like going out every day with my mates but I hate going to parties, though once I get there I seem to be doing quite fine. I am pretty talkative, but I don't mind not saying much either. At college, I am pretty quiet.

I'm not particularly sure where I stand on my E/I so I thought of my childhood, when I was definitely an introvert. I would spend most of my time in my house running all around and imagining Superman was fighting batman, or sometimes I'd give theater performances to my parents.

I know I am going by dichotomies, but I can't type myself based on cognitive functions.

I find the following thing somewhat relevant:


Here are some common questions for ENTP:


> Do you break rules because you can't stand how illogical those rules are?


Yes, though I can't say I do this very often. Sometimes I do it just for fun. I am quite fickle, sometimes I do sometimes I don't. Most of the time I just don't care.


> Do you argue against positions just because you can, regardless of who you might offend (because you talk your way out of it)?


Yes.


> Do you struggle to make serious decisions, but then hastily rush into things and spend the next few days rethinking your decision?


Yes.


> Do you find yourself actively not preparing for things because you do your best work while in the moment?


Not really. Before doing something, I like thinking about various ways things could go and have a preset direction to go towards, so I am not caught unprepared. I consider multiple possibilities and prepare vaguely for different ones.


> Do others have difficulty following what you're saying (and even you have trouble following yourself sometimes) because the thoughts are literally coming out before you even know what you're going to say?


Not particularly sure where I stand on this. I know that I feel I sometimes have trouble saying exactly what I want, and instead of being concise I end up giving really retarded explanations. I sometimes feel I know something but that certain something is very vague and I spend a lot of time pinpointing what exactly that is.


> Do you often worry that others might find you hot-headed and off-putting because when you get started on a rant you can't seem to stop yourself?


Not really. I never really cared what others found me as exactly. I can alter my behavior according to the person in front of me, picking up what exactly that person likes and I end up adjusting my behavior a bit.


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## TyranAmiros (Jul 7, 2014)

@Noir

While there's certainly some correlation between being outgoing and sociable and extraversion, it's not as clear as that, especially from the function-based approach. A Te-dominant and an Se-dominant are extraverted in completely different ways: the Te tends to impose his order on the world, while the Se doesn't need to speak; her actions alone are enough to make the point.

You certainly might be ENFP. How do you relate to characters like Lorelai Gilmore from Gilmore Girls, Barry Allen from The Flash, or Elle Woods from Legally Blonde? 

Ne dominants tend to be very, very open to any possibility. For example, tell an ENTP he's an ISTJ, and he'll respond, "I was just considering that the other day! There was this one time when I was at Church and thinking about traditions and where they come from and the pastor started talking about Leviticus. I think it's a great idea to reintroduce some of those biblical laws, to show how crazy people who take the Bible seriously are. I was listening to this podcast where they were talking about that new Bible inspired movie. What do you think about how more productions of Hollywood movies are moving to Canada?" 

I don't know if I necessarily see dominant Ne-inferior Si in your answers, but it's always possible. 

Thinking on your stress reaction (withdrawal), how do you relate to this: http://personalitycafe.com/sps-temperament-forum-creators/58243-form-inferior-function-esps.html

I know ESxP is a bit far afield from where you began, but I'm going there because I really don't think any of the NP types are good fits for your answers--not enough Ne for me--and you don't seem to connect to the TJ types. SPs tend to suffer at the hands of the intuitives that write the type descriptions and society generally puts a big stigma on SP behaviors, but SFPs also use Fi-Te.

Of course, there may be a disconnect between the answers you give here and how you actually behave IRL. That's why I always condition my responses as "in your answers" or "according to what you've written". Maybe you've already settled on a particular type and were just looking for confirmation (that's a very common xNTJ thing to do--their Te needs that external validation to satisfy the dominant Ni's instincts)--in which case, I'm sorry I can't tell you want you want to hear. I'd encourage you to read into the system some, thinking about types in action. There are some pretty clear examples of each type in history and fiction. Reading Plato on Socrates will give you a lot of insight, for example, in to ENTP (Socrates) as well as INFJ (Plato); comparing the comic and tv versions of Oliver Queen (Green Arrow) will help you see the difference between ESFP (Comics) and ISTP (TV show). In my opinion, tests tend to be much easier to game than free response answers, but you could always speak with someone like a career counselor who administers the MBTI professionally (my university's career services center lets you take it and review it with a professional).


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## Apple Pine (Nov 27, 2014)

Heya, I'm kinda in entj, enfp and entp loop as well, and I'm type 3 too, but 3w4. Entj fits best, but I relate to other 2 a lot as well...The main reason I doubt is probably cause of being much more emotive, but that might be because of 3w4, 3 = higher fe, 4 = fi

I'm just leaving a mark here, to make sure I won't forget to check this thread later!


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## Noir (Jun 20, 2014)

TyranAmiros said:


> @Noir
> 
> While there's certainly some correlation between being outgoing and sociable and extraversion, it's not as clear as that, especially from the function-based approach. A Te-dominant and an Se-dominant are extraverted in completely different ways: the Te tends to impose his order on the world, while the Se doesn't need to speak; her actions alone are enough to make the point.
> 
> ...


Wow, at first I really was just looking for confirmation. Your best guess seems to be ESFP. My dad is one, I am 110 percent that, at least, I am not. Maybe ISFP, but not even that. Still, thanks. 
Thing is, I just feel very vaguely that I am not an ENTJ. It is vague, I can't really say why. *sigh*

Would looking over this help?


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## Ermenegildo (Feb 25, 2014)

My short answer: 
e*S**T*j
You have tried in vain INTP, INTJ, ENTJ and now ENTP. You have a Sensing preference, and you can't type yourself successfully because you can't accept that. Unfortunately the STJ type descriptions omit the independent-minded specimens of these types. The extraversion of ESTJs can be modest, and you can't expect them to be social extraverts. 










In function babble: You always show strong Te but never dominant or auxiliary Ni or Ne. When someone proposes something that you don't want to hear you get incredibly defensive and show the famous ESTJ 'explosion', triggered by inferior Fi. I had the pleasure to observe a female ESTJ in the last three years and now a male ESTJ in his private and professional life, along with three male ISTJs, and it seems to be much easier for the observer to detect dominant or auxiliary Si than for the user.


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## Noir (Jun 20, 2014)

Ermenegildo said:


> My short answer:
> e*S**T*j
> You have tried in vain INTP, INTJ, ENTJ and now ENTP. You have a Sensing preference, and you can't type yourself successfully because you can't accept that. Unfortunately the STJ type descriptions omit the independent-minded specimens of these types. The extraversion of ESTJs can be modest, and you can't expect them to be social extraverts.
> 
> ...


Well, thanks for your input, but... how exactly do I get defensive and explode when someone says I am a sensor? I myself titled this thread ...iStj...


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

I'm pretty sure and set based on what I've seen of you that you are an Ne type who probably values Fi over Ti, so xNFP.


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## Bash (Nov 19, 2014)

Ermenegildo said:


> In function babble: You always show strong Te but never dominant or auxiliary Ni or Ne. When someone proposes something that you don't want to hear you get incredibly defensive and show the famous ESTJ 'explosion', triggered by inferior Fi. I had the pleasure to observe a female ESTJ in the last three years and now a male ESTJ in his private and professional life, along with three male ISTJs, and it seems to be much easier for the observer to detect dominant or auxiliary Si than for the user.


I haven't gone thorugh the whole thread, but if what you say is true, this points at a obstinate type.

Socionics Dichotomies: R2t2

What would you say on this matter, @Entropic?

Edit: just saw your post, and ENFP would make sense.


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

opinions from the peanut gallery just reading hte first post, you seem like an ENTP to me.

ENTP is the least extroverted E type there is. You do consider other's feelings and importance, but not at the risk of sacrificing logic. I believe I see fits and starts of Fe in your description which would be starting to surface at he age of 20 to 25 depending on health and intelligence.

Your "logic" (Ti vs Te) resonates for me, which points to Ti. You DO have some Te in there you have learned from someone, perhaps a father or something, so Te is also showing. 

I'm pretty sure I'm an ENTP 8, and I retreat inwards to quiet when I get stressed out as you describe.


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## Noir (Jun 20, 2014)

@TyranAmiros

I've come a bit to my senses, and am able to clear things a bit. First of all, I am definitely a judger, not a perceiver. I want to actively play a role in everything I do, organizing the outside world and imposing order. What's more, I found out I often judge things before I have a clear idea about them, and then switch around my judgement based on new info. I also relate to the Se-Ni/Ni-Se loop more than Si/Ne. What do you think?


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## TyranAmiros (Jul 7, 2014)

@Noir: I've been on the ENTJ train from the first station, but let me suggest something:

1. Go with ENTJ for now
2. When you have a dilemma that you think is personality-driven (i.e. career advice, communication issues, why you do something that annoys you/others), take a look at the ENTJ section and see if ENTJs seem to face similar problems. I know that's what tipped me into INTP from INTJ--the advice for INTJ was not really on point, but INTPs seemed to be going through exactly the same things I was.
3. If ENTJ advice seems to be on point, congrats! If not, take that dilemma and look at other types (start with ESTJ, then ENFP and ESFP) and see if they're a better fit.


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