# Tell me why I actually have a type, and what that type is.



## Lord Bullingdon (Aug 9, 2014)

JJ4000 said:


> Typeless? Maybe motivated to not have a type, which indicates ideas of self-forgetting or an undefined-self, which indicates Enneatype 9?


No offense, but that's an unfair stereotype of both 9s and un-typed enneagrammers. I'd never claim to have an undefined sense of self; I'm far too self centered to be truly self-forgetting. My claims of typelessness are through logical reasoning alone, based on my current understanding of the types. 



> Not seeing much Enneatype 1 there.


Why not? It's one of my candidates.



> Or Type 2.


Bingo.



> Type 3... mmmm. Could explain the "motivation" to be something more than you are, anything but your current self.


One of the least like me types, actually.



> But nah, you strike me as a 4w5 in your heart-fix, strong emotions, etc.


So plainly.



> Type 5, could get a bit of that. Some flavours of five have a refined bluntness to them - you're emotionally frank, yet you leave out the details when they're not required. Maybe not important in the idea of discovering the truth, but if they are said to be important, then you do include them? I'm biased towards this because this is how I operate anyway.


Truth is the most important thing to me, no matter how painful. I tend to conceive of "truth" as an overall principle, however, rather than something to be detailed. However, if I go into honesty mode, no detail will be left out, no matter how incriminating.



> Type 6? Nah.


Why not? There was once an entire message board utterly convinced I was a core 6w7.



> Type 7.. Mmmm, I think not.


Why not? The more I learn, the more of a candidate it seems to me.



> Getting some Type 8 vibes there, but it would probably be lowest on your stack.


More detail?



> Just an idea
> My guess: 4w3 5w6 9w8


I do identify somewhat with that tritype, actually.


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## Lord Bullingdon (Aug 9, 2014)

Alomoes said:


> Well, I saw Ne in there, but I also saw a REALLY WELL DEVELOPED Si, which I figured would mean skeptical. That Fi though, it is so very well pronounced. Hence why I asked about drugs and such. Plus warzone trauma could mean anything from PTSD to anything. Don't know. Oh and existential crises are mostly an Ne thing. Hence why I said INFP. Because I relate. Every few days, I doubt that I'm INFP, and decide I might be INTP. Its become a quite usual thing for me. And sometimes, I decide I might be INFJ, only for a brief second, but still. I also decided that you have a VERY Si vibe. I forget why. But the Si would cancel out and mask the Ne. Mid 30s is the time for it to happen, so yeah. And for why ISTJs don't like INFPs, there are people who literally just don't like me. I don't get it. I've concluded that they have Si and Te, and my Ne and Fi annoys them, but as usual, I'm not sure.


I'm curious how you see really well developed Si. Thanks.

I don't think I have PTSD, though sometimes I wonder. I don't think ISTJs hate me, but yeah, this stupid 4th decade and all.




drmiller100 said:


> this is quintessential INFP to me. Bouncing around feelings, a bit scattered, but I follow all that just fine.
> 
> This is not Typeless IMO.......


I don't quite think that's me, either, but I guess I could be blind to something here.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

The Typeless Wonder said:


> Thanks for that perspective, though I can say with certainty that my understanding of the enneagram on a deeper level was highly dependent on lots of work and experience.


Sure, but it's not necessarily a desire to tie it to a behavioral realm that is important here. 



> That's exactly right. I am comfortable with impersonal reasoning; not so much the interpersonal reasoning, which does take some effort. I thought that was what a preference for thinking was.
> 
> In what ways do I appear sappy? I really can't stand sappiness so I'm interested in hearing what you're observing.


Well, just seeming emotional in general. Not sappy as in outpouring of emotions. A few other things:



> No offense, but that's an unfair stereotype of both 9s and un-typed enneagrammers. I'd never claim to have an undefined sense of self; I'm far too self centered to be truly self-forgetting. My claims of typelessness are through logical reasoning alone, based on my current understanding of the types.


This here is an Fi judgement.



> Actually, I just have legit arguments against each enneagram type. I really don't seem to be much of anything, and I'll continue to be that way until it makes sense to me.


Seems to suggest negativism, which just reinforces my idea of INTJ for you.


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## Lord Bullingdon (Aug 9, 2014)

Entropic said:


> Sure, but it's not necessarily a desire to tie it to a behavioral realm that is important here.


I see.



> Well, just seeming emotional in general. Not sappy as in outpouring of emotions.


I think of being sappy as I think of those churchy doe-eyed Victorian kids I mentioned on the morality thread--kinda silly, maudlin. But yeah I have strong feelings about things.



> This here is an Fi judgement.





> Seems to suggest negativism, which just reinforces my idea of INTJ for you.


Can you explain these to me in more depth?


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

The Typeless Wonder said:


> I think of being sappy as I think of those churchy doe-eyed Victorian kids I mentioned on the morality thread--kinda silly, maudlin. But yeah I have strong feelings about things.


Yeah, I figured you thought that and I would say what you are referring to is Fe that is, (excessive) outpuring of emotions. One aspect of Fe is how it seeks to manipulate the environment by affecting it emotionally. Fe creates a sense of awareness of emotional atmosphere of pleasant, bad, hostile, happy etc. Fe ego types, especially EFxJs, are very good at doing this and always seek to dramatize their emotions in this way by being openly expressive about how they feel about things in any given situation. In particular, the way you describe Fe here seems the most associated alpha quadra types being xSFJs and xNTPs. They may come across as sappy like the way you describe them here so it just makes me more inclined to think you're a gamma (xNTJ and xSFP) and I already expressed that I think you're an INTJ, so. 



> Can you explain these to me in more depth?


Fi is a kind of logical reasoning or judgement that derives its standards based on a sense of (subjective) ethical evaluation of good-bad, like-dislike etc. that is felt as aligning oneself with deeply held standards or universal ideals. By universal I mean that Fi tries to attempt to understand the human condition. It derives a sense of rightness or wrongness from an internal compass that may not be shared by anyone else and measures ethical behavior based on how close or distant one is to other people. 

Negativism refers to the cognitive bias to first look for what's not there, what's missing, what's not present etc. over what is there, present, etc. If asked to describe whether you think a certain type portrait fits you for example, a negativist may say that it seems like a good description because at least it doesn't say that I'm an outgoing person over saying that it describes an introverted person and I'm introverted.


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## giorgaros2 (Sep 2, 2014)

ISTJ or INFP


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## Lord Bullingdon (Aug 9, 2014)

giorgaros2 said:


> ISTJ or INFP


Why? Those are two very different types.


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

Typeless,

You are very bright. There are walls up which I can't see into, which is certainly fine.

You seem enneagram 4 to me. Any comments on why you don't think you are 4?


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## Alomoes (Oct 5, 2014)

I'm a negative nancy. All the INFJs I've met are Debby Downers. INTJs aren't the only ones that can be negative. So uh yeah. A VERY WELL DEVELOPED INFP. DON'T CARE MY FINAL VERDICT IS INFP! 

Now onto Enneagram. I'll just post it here. I don't know a thing about enneagrams, but you sound like a 6. I'm a 5w6. 6s are pretty much permanently insecure from what I read. To ease that insecurity, they join groups. Like the military. Yes? I would not say 4 at all. Typical 4 catch phrase "Is don't mess with my life." I know a 4 INFP (or ENFP, that part is hard to decide). Not me. Not you. I also see the detachment you have, so I would say 5. I am probably more detached, but meh.


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## Lord Bullingdon (Aug 9, 2014)

drmiller100 said:


> Typeless,
> 
> You are very bright. There are walls up which I can't see into, which is certainly fine.
> 
> You seem enneagram 4 to me. Any comments on why you don't think you are 4?


I do not identify with my emotional states, period. Full stop. My "emotions" do not make me special, and while I certainly have strong and changeable feelings, I tend to let them go. They do not define me, they are of no significance other than the fact that I'm having that emotion in response to this or that stimulus. I have no image orientation and cannot identify with the concerns of 2 and 3, even after years of self-analysis. Those simply aren't psychologies related to whatever mine is.

And I have no idea what I was put on this earth for, but it was certainly not to "express" myself in any capacity. I cannot "feel" the emotions of others; I am not receptive to others in this way. Yet, 4s very often _do_ intercept others' emotions. So as much as it sounds like me superficially, the deeper mechanics of the type in no way offer an explanation as to my enneagram type.

If you think I'm putting up walls, well you're not the first person to say so. I maintain, from the depths of my being, that I have been forthright and honest as possible in all communications on this message board, and whatever walls I put up have happened completely in the dark without my knowledge.



Alomoes said:


> I'm a negative nancy. All the INFJs I've met are Debby Downers. INTJs aren't the only ones that can be negative. So uh yeah. A VERY WELL DEVELOPED INFP. DON'T CARE MY FINAL VERDICT IS INFP!


Because I'm negative?? I believe my father may be an INFP, and he's the most pseudo-positive human being you'll ever come across. There are mass reserves of negativity within, but damned if anyone else ever sees it. Are only introverts negative, though? Can extroverts be negative? Can introverts be legitimately positive?



> Now onto Enneagram. I'll just post it here. I don't know a thing about enneagrams, but you sound like a 6. I'm a 5w6. 6s are pretty much permanently insecure from what I read. To ease that insecurity, they join groups. Like the military. Yes? I would not say 4 at all. Typical 4 catch phrase "Is don't mess with my life." I know a 4 INFP (or ENFP, that part is hard to decide). Not me. Not you. I also see the detachment you have, so I would say 5. I am probably more detached, but meh.


I don't mean this as rudely as it will come across, but a) that's a bullshit description of 6, and b) it doesn't describe me anyway. I fricken hate insecure people (as in, girls who can't go the toilet alone, whatever), so that's not the best way to start, for one thing. Six insecurity is not knowing what's truly stable in life, and I can't identify with that much either, because I simply have never cared. My catchphrase would be a lot closer to what you attribute to the 4s. I've spent my life doing my own thing and actually believing that all my grand ideas would work, leaving me a rather broken, poverty-stricken individual at the age of 30+.

But, if you think I'm an INFP 6w5, by all means let me know what it is you're picking up on, because I frankly don't see it after years of self-analysis and months of trying to convince myself I must be a 6 because there's nothing else left to choose. That's a serious request, not a baited question, btw. I'll buy the INFP part. Could INFP work with 6w5 to obscure the issues? Someone better than me at JCF will have to answer that one.


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

Oh my. 

I am ENTP, and in my late 40's, and a LOT one sided. I completely identify with "I do not identify with my emotional states." 
To me, this means I am a piss poor Fi user. And I really do not give a crap about society's standards.

I have a friend on this list who is an ENTP 5. Mind if I invite him? and another person who might have some ideas?


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## Lord Bullingdon (Aug 9, 2014)

drmiller100 said:


> Oh my.
> 
> I am ENTP, and in my late 40's, and a LOT one sided. I completely identify with "I do not identify with my emotional states."
> To me, this means I am a piss poor Fi user. And I really do not give a crap about society's standards.
> ...


Sure invite anyone. I'm open to listening. 

Also I'm trying to put up some reflections on what I'm reading about the functions, but stupid work. I hate being an adult. Get back to this whenever I can.


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

@cir @Karma @Hunger


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## Hunger (Jul 21, 2011)

@The Typeless Wonder, please post 5 images you relate to/identify with.


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## AstroVenom (Jan 15, 2014)

you sound intp


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## Lord Bullingdon (Aug 9, 2014)

Hunger said:


> @The Typeless Wonder, please post 5 images you relate to/identify with.


Alas, my reserves of photos I really like has been lost. This may take awhile.

Should I put up photos I like, or photos that say something about me? It's hard for me to find photos I "identify" with, but I could easily find things I like.


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## Hunger (Jul 21, 2011)

The Typeless Wonder said:


> Alas, my reserves of photos I really like has been lost. This may take awhile.
> 
> Should I put up photos I like, or photos that say something about me? It's hard for me to find photos I "identify" with, but I could easily find things I like.


"Things" don't cut it in most cases. Vibes, atmosphere, symbolism, colours that kinda thing can be interpreted. Things can be unanimous across most types.

Play around on tumblr for awhile, search up your interests and find images that "pull you", that you feel attracted to. These make for more accurate interpretations.


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

Hunger said:


> "Things" don't cut it in most cases. Vibes, atmosphere, symbolism, colours that kinda thing can be interpreted. Things can be unanimous across most types.
> 
> Play around on tumblr for awhile, search up your interests and find images that "pull you", that you feel attracted to. These make for more accurate interpretations.


I couldn't do this with any meaningful results.


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## Hunger (Jul 21, 2011)

drmiller100 said:


> I couldn't do this with any meaningful results.


What do you mean?


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

Hunger said:


> What do you mean?


Pictures are meaningless to me. There are a few memories I suppose, and I do like pics of my kids. 

Other than that, not so much.

Notice my avatar?


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

you certainly bounce subjects with me.

when you get really stressed and emotionally beat up do you retreat to your bedroom?


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## Lord Bullingdon (Aug 9, 2014)

drmiller100 said:


> you certainly bounce subjects with me.
> 
> when you get really stressed and emotionally beat up do you retreat to your bedroom?


Actually my bedroom is sort of my hangout anyway. It's hard to tell. I definitely do the storm away thing, though.


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

i declare thee infp.


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## Lord Bullingdon (Aug 9, 2014)

drmiller100 said:


> i declare thee infp.


Why?


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## Leyton (Nov 18, 2014)

I haven't taken any test yet so I don't know what I am, I have been trying to understand different personality types as I am struggling with a difficult relationship and so I am trying to understand my partner better. The problem is that I know that she is INFJ but that's all I know. Can anyone give me any advice on what I should be reading?


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## Lord Bullingdon (Aug 9, 2014)

Leyton said:


> I haven't taken any test yet so I don't know what I am, I have been trying to understand different personality types as I am struggling with a difficult relationship and so I am trying to understand my partner better. The problem is that I know that she is INFJ but that's all I know. Can anyone give me any advice on what I should be reading?


Wrong thread.


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## Leyton (Nov 18, 2014)

Hence why I asked what I should be reading????


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## Cryoshakespeare (Dec 7, 2011)

The Typeless Wonder said:


> Could you tell me more about your own emotionality and relationship to them?


Alright, cool. I have strong emotions, well, more specifically, I have strong drives such as anger and I can be stimulated to hyper-activity and energy easily enough. Though this entirely depends on factors I'm not aware of, it seems to be cyclic as to when I experience highs of passion and subsequent lows.

But I am incorrigibly a base Type 5, I have a very, very strong desire to be competent, independent, "above" or at least in control of my emotions and my experience of life, and I would say one of my key drives is to come to master something through both a logical and deeply intuitive understanding of it. My behaviour and emotional expression is typically like that of a 5, very reserved in emotional expression and keen to understand details, to keep the information-gate open for as long as possible, to often overcomplicate things out of fear that I will miss some important detail. However I am fairly integrated as a 5, and so I have effectively learned how to undo the process of pushing my emotions down and out of my conscious perception that is so symptomatic of a 5's nature. 

I think most people don't understand that 5s are actually very emotionally sensitive, and they don't appreciate how that sensitivity interplays with other types in their archetype. The fact that my other two types are 4 and 8 is very significant, for the reason that I have exacerbated, across-the-board drive-introversion and enhancement due to my 4 type and I have even stronger extroverted and aggressive drives due to my 8 type. I will admit I am an unusual 5, and it took me a long time to really understand why I identified with 5 so much and yet at the same time felt very different to them (I mistyped as 4 originally).

Back when I was depressed, or verging on it, I was certainly out of touch with my emotional side. It was just so uncontrollably strong that it expressed itself anyway, yet until I went to therapy I never really let myself introspect and feel why I was in such a recurring state.


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## Lord Bullingdon (Aug 9, 2014)

JJ4000 said:


> Alright, cool. I have strong emotions, well, more specifically, I have strong drives such as anger and I can be stimulated to hyper-activity and energy easily enough. Though this entirely depends on factors I'm not aware of, it seems to be cyclic as to when I experience highs of passion and subsequent lows.
> 
> But I am incorrigibly a base Type 5, I have a very, very strong desire to be competent, independent, "above" or at least in control of my emotions and my experience of life, and I would say one of my key drives is to come to master something through both a logical and deeply intuitive understanding of it. My behaviour and emotional expression is typically like that of a 5, very reserved in emotional expression and keen to understand details, to keep the information-gate open for as long as possible, to often overcomplicate things out of fear that I will miss some important detail. However I am fairly integrated as a 5, and so I have effectively learned how to undo the process of pushing my emotions down and out of my conscious perception that is so symptomatic of a 5's nature.
> 
> ...


Thanks for this testimony. It was a very important read. You said you initially identified as a 4; it was the same for Russ Hudson, a 548 like yourself. I wonder if this is common with this tritype?

A couple more questions. First, you discuss your desire for mastery and tendencies to keep the "information gate" open as long as possible. How has this manifested in your life? It's one thing to discuss it hypothetically (and I can't really relate to it as is), but it would be quite another thing to understand how this can manifest. Care to share your observations here?

Second, do you identify with the 458 tritype descriptions? Curious to know.

Thanks.


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## Lord Bullingdon (Aug 9, 2014)

Well, I said i'd put up a summary, so here we go, for reference if nothing else. Here are my thoughts on this. I understand that these are short descriptions and I should NOT type myself based on these short words. I do get that. What I'm doing here is presenting some thoughts based on this information and other things I have read thus far.

*Introverted Sensor They work on the specific and the detailed. Seek to be thoroughly aware of all facts before coming to decisions. Not open to new understandings, they are comfortable within tradition and the established. They enjoy being in control and well prepared for whatever life may bring.*

Some people have suggested ISTJ, which would make this my dominant function apparently. But...this is so Not Me. I tend to make decisions on the fly and my life has been geared toward NOT being established. Like I literally decided to move to a new country on a whim. And it worked. Facts? No. Just use common sense and everything will fall into place.

I like traditions, I guess, but I can't be bothered to remember them. I can't remember the last time I celebrated Easter, Christmas, or even my birthday. I like celebrating them, but if I forget, I forget. And I do forget because the rest of life beckons me. I am also chronically unprepared. I don't particularly understand what people mean in descriptions of the process itself.


*Extraverted Sensor They are active and crave new experiences. In touch with the immediate physical reality, they enjoy a fast changing environment. Strongly materialistic, they require strong sensory experience.*

I'm anti-materialistic, actually. I just can't stand people like this. I do strongly crave new experiences, though, and get upset if physically pent up. I have to use my body or I feel like I'm being drained of vitality. I mean I hate excercise and the gym, but I enjoy heavy physical labor like gardening, lifting boxes, etc. Call me a peasant.

I feel like I do notice details (there was that picture on one of the stickies and all I did was behold its splendor). While I like exciting environments, I can also be fricken oblivious. I did test pretty high on Se, though. Meh.


*Introverted Feeler Considerate, helpful and often introspective, they strive for a sense of harmony and well-being. With strong inner feelings, they are loyal and caring. They follow deep personal convictions rather than social values, making them appear somewhat original and unconventional.*

I do have strong inner feelings rather than social values. I AM unconventional! And absurdly original. I've seen a lot of this written about Fi-users, though. Their sense of morality comes from within. I also strongly agree that I'm interconnected to animals and nature and all living things. That's a major, and secret, ethic of mine. On these grounds, I'd even say I'm Fi-dom. 

What I disagree with is being considerate, helpful, harmonious, caring, etc. I've never really been that nice, and as I said earlier, have become a downright socio-pathic asshole. Could that be the legendary Te bitchslap?


*Extraverted Feeler They expect cooperation and harmony within a particular institution. They follow well defined rules of conduct and respect the social hierarchy. They are loyal and may fight for a cause, but always within tradition and accepted norms.*

Someone said somewhere that Fe-users have morality as externally defined, and partly due to this I identify with Fe the very least. That and, as with Fi, I'm not nice enough. I can't take care of others' needs. I can't follow norms.

But, I remember being involved in international activism. While certain boneheads were outside throwing rocks, I actually gained accreditation to the UN, went inside, and started talking to law-makers. It seems more sensible for me to persuade people on their own terms rather than brutally tear down things and expect them to sympathise, surely? So you could argue I actually DO do things within the accepted norms, even if I generally feel like a total weirdo.


*Introverted Thinker Enjoy coming to new understandings, problem-solving and logic. Independent, skeptical and critical. Appear self-absorbed while they use step-by-step logic to discover the principles and connections that underlie the overall picture.
*
I am self-absorbed and want to create the overall universal picture of what our universe is really up to and how the world really works, yes. That blurb actually describes my mindset fairly well. Not sure if I'm so logical about it. Some of what I read about Ti just sounds...so dry. But I did just spend the last 30 some years building a world view.


*Extraverted Thinker They organize, dictate and control. Easily come to decisions as they set out logical plans of action, or impart rules and regulations. They may rise to a position of authority that allows them to maintain order and efficiency within a given organization.*

Ha ha. This would be the thing I absolutely fail at. I fail at organization, rules, and regulations. Order and efficiency?? That's against my middle name. Logical plan of action? More like just jumping in willy-nilly and then getting mad that things don't go the way I was vaguely envisioning. People can argue me an xxTJ till they're blue in the face, but until I can remotely identify with this, I'll have to say No. I could only wish, and even then everything I've read sounds so boring and unlike me that...not really. 

About the only argument anyone got is that I know how to cite my sources, and even then, that's generally because I want others to know about alternate sources of information rather than relying on mediocre-to-retarded opinions online.

Does this make me IxFP??


*Introverted Intuitive They are stimulated by problems and enjoy an intellectual challenge and coming to new understandings. They possess an abstract and analytical mind that helps them to discover the underlying principles behind a particular situation. Intensely individualistic, they can walk the road less travelled.*

I do enjoy intellectual challenge and coming to new understandings! I am individualistic, and my road is far less travelled. I am interested in the underlying principles behind a particular situation. That's why I'm always seen as smart, actually--I am very quick to latch onto underlying principles and use them.

That said, I don't understand most of the rest of what it says about Ni anywhere else. Most of its like...wut?? Just, I find these statements to be relatively true of me.

*Extraverted Intuitive The most open-minded of the types, they are fascinated by the new. Impulsive, adventurous, and creative, their minds entertain future plans and new ideas. They do not live in the immediate physical reality, but in a world of relationships and possibilities. They abhor routine.*

I don't abhor routine, I'm just oblivious to it. If someone else enforces the routine, I'm pretty good with it. Easy for me to just forget everything and think only the thoughts I want to think that way. 

I do consider myself extremely creative, open-minded, and fascinated by the new. I've got a reputation for being the harbinger of the future, always ahead of my time. My predictions are generally good. I don't know what they mean by living in a world of relationships and possibilities, but I can be pretty oblivious to my environment. I live in my head, really. Fantasy land.

Anyway, those are some thoughts. I don't know how helpful that is, but just for reference. I did briefly educate myself about the functions. All I can say is I am not good at Fe or Te, everything else negotiable.


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