# Why the Matrix is stupid



## MiriMiriAru

So many people love the Matrix, and will go on about how amazing and thought provoking it is. And, on the latter point at least, they are right. However, the thought that it provoked was more about how utterly ridiculous the whole premise of the film was, more than any thoughts like "OMG, what if we'z in a computer?!?!".

There a number of key points to the film that are simply so stupid as ruin the entire things for me (feel free to add any that I may miss).

1. "We scorched the sky"
What the hell kind of method could possibly be employed to achieve permanent solar-blocking cloud cover? I mean, mass detonation of nuclear weapons could cause a huge amount of airborne particles to block out a lot of light, but what was depicted in the film was clearly madly roiling clouds, that apparently covered the entire planet. Right.

2. "They turned us into batteries! (to paraphrase)"
Really? Batteries? How much electricity does a human body produce? Wouldn't there have been more efficient ways of generating electricity? I mean, after the magic cloud show started, the machines somehow managed to build huge structures covered with life support systems and electrical generation systems, not to mention the "fields" where humans were produced, before they ran out of power. Couldn't they have just covered North America in nuclear reactors and called it a day? Waste wouldn't even have been an issue, since they're not alive, I imagine they wouldn't mind, and they probably don't give a shit about ecology. They could have just wiped humans out, why go to such elaborate lengths to imprison billions simply to create a really inefficient power generation system, a huge amount of the power from which would go into maintaining the aforementioned imprisonment. Fuel for the reactors wouldn't necessarily be a problem, since space travel's prohibitive time-frames would be meaningless to unliving machine entities.

3. What's this whole "the One" business?
Seriously, this is, other than the battery thing, the other main part of the film's premise. It's just so... stupid. Why would the machines, after having invested so much effort in building this incredibly dumb system, would they allow weird glitches to potentially fuck it up. I know they came up with some sort of bollocks answer later on in the series, but I don't buy it. Oh no, there are intruders in the Matrix, let's send some agents in. Wrong. Just shut off the server for that part of the Matrix and fry the intruder's target in his tank. Intruder's are now vegetables, target is dead, and some story about an asteroid wiping out Sydney could be fed to the "media". Shit, they wouldn't even need to do that, just have an asteroid wipe out Sydney and fry all of the people in their tanks. It's not like they are a finite resource. And anyway, just where does the One's power come from? The Matrix is software (or maybe firmware... whatever, it's a whole lot of programming), so Neo must be using some kind of cracker application hard coded into him. But, the Matrix is this centuries old computer system, and the One phenomenon is old hat, surely that have some quality countermeasures by now.

I think I may have had more than that, but that's really enough. The whole thing should have ended centuries before it begun, with humanity being wiped out and the earth being an irradiated ball of rock populated by inscrutable sentient machines. In fact, that's what the film should have been: a documentary about this future world, with alien machines scuttling around in the darkness screeching data at each other, going about their strange business. Who wouldn't want to watch 2 hours of that?


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## Capsicum

You gave three good reasons there.

Anyway, the _Matrix_ trilogy reminds me of _Fight Club_, in that people like to quote it / talk about it when they feel like being philosophical, which annoys me because the film's premise _is_ ridiculous (_Fight Club_ annoys me for a whole different reason).



> In fact, that's what the film should have been: a documentary about this future world, with alien machines scuttling around in the darkness screeching data at each other, going about their strange business. Who wouldn't want to watch 2 hours of that?


Meh, I wouldn't.


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## sprinkles

Smith made up for it, IMO.
He's my favorite misanthrope.


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## MiriMiriAru

Capsicum said:


> You gave three good reasons there.
> 
> Anyway, the _Matrix_ trilogy reminds me of _Fight Club_, in that people like to quote it / talk about it when they feel like being philosophical, which annoys me because the film's premise _is_ ridiculous (_Fight Club_ annoys me for a whole different reason).


Fight club bothered me too, for reasons I can't quite put my finger on. When the "twist" was revealed, I was like "Oh, OK... that's... odd" and the rest of the film sort of felt kind of pointless.



> Meh, I wouldn't.


I suppose I wouldn't either. But the idea of it being made is quite funny. For me anyway.



sprinkles said:


> Smith made up for it, IMO.
> He's my favorite misanthrope.


Agreed. For the first one at least. 

I felt that Hugo Weaving's acting got progressively more hammy as the series dragged on, not to mentioned the whole "I'll turn you into me" nonsense, until it reached the point where I wanted to fast forward any scene in which he appeared.


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## busyCHilD

Zombie Jesus said:


> So many people love the Matrix, and will go on about how amazing and thought provoking it is. And, on the latter point at least, they are right. However, the thought that it provoked was more about how utterly ridiculous the whole premise of the film was, more than any thoughts like "OMG, what if we'z in a computer?!?!".
> 
> There a number of key points to the film that are simply so stupid as ruin the entire things for me (feel free to add any that I may miss).
> 
> 1. "We scorched the sky"
> What the hell kind of method could possibly be employed to achieve permanent solar-blocking cloud cover? I mean, mass detonation of nuclear weapons could cause a huge amount of airborne particles to block out a lot of light, but what was depicted in the film was clearly madly roiling clouds, that apparently covered the entire planet. Right.
> 
> 2. "They turned us into batteries! (to paraphrase)"
> Really? Batteries? How much electricity does a human body produce? Wouldn't there have been more efficient ways of generating electricity? I mean, after the magic cloud show started, the machines somehow managed to build huge structures covered with life support systems and electrical generation systems, not to mention the "fields" where humans were produced, before they ran out of power. Couldn't they have just covered North America in nuclear reactors and called it a day? Waste wouldn't even have been an issue, since they're not alive, I imagine they wouldn't mind, and they probably don't give a shit about ecology. They could have just wiped humans out, why go to such elaborate lengths to imprison billions simply to create a really inefficient power generation system, a huge amount of the power from which would go into maintaining the aforementioned imprisonment. Fuel for the reactors wouldn't necessarily be a problem, since space travel's prohibitive time-frames would be meaningless to unliving machine entities.
> 
> 3. What's this whole "the One" business?
> Seriously, this is, other than the battery thing, the other main part of the film's premise. It's just so... stupid. Why would the machines, after having invested so much effort in building this incredibly dumb system, would they allow weird glitches to potentially fuck it up. I know they came up with some sort of bollocks answer later on in the series, but I don't buy it. Oh no, there are intruders in the Matrix, let's send some agents in. Wrong. Just shut off the server for that part of the Matrix and fry the intruder's target in his tank. Intruder's are now vegetables, target is dead, and some story about an asteroid wiping out Sydney could be fed to the "media". Shit, they wouldn't even need to do that, just have an asteroid wipe out Sydney and fry all of the people in their tanks. It's not like they are a finite resource. And anyway, just where does the One's power come from? The Matrix is software (or maybe firmware... whatever, it's a whole lot of programming), so Neo must be using some kind of cracker application hard coded into him. But, the Matrix is this centuries old computer system, and the One phenomenon is old hat, surely that have some quality countermeasures by now.
> 
> I think I may have had more than that, but that's really enough. The whole thing should have ended centuries before it begun, with humanity being wiped out and the earth being an irradiated ball of rock populated by inscrutable sentient machines. In fact, that's what the film should have been: a documentary about this future world, with alien machines scuttling around in the darkness screeching data at each other, going about their strange business. Who wouldn't want to watch 2 hours of that?


I'll attempt to break this down the best I can
1) Depending the devastation caused by the nuclear fallout, you have to speculate how long it would really take to get the earth back to homeostasis. Could be hundreds of years, it could be thousands

2) I'll side with you on this one in that using human beings to generate electricity seems very ineffective, but it may have to do with the fact that we use technology as a slave currently, all it would take is a sentient A.I. to realize that and bam you have one angry hoarde of vengeance seeking machines. Still doubtful since the three laws instilled into A.I. would most likely result in said entity doing anything in its power to meet these demands (think how animals are wired to reproduce) But all in all, probably the biggest inconsistency in the movie

3) The Architect explained Neo in the second movie, he is a mathematical anomaly that just happened as a result of the matrix's programming. So to say, he was Hope incarnate, if that makes any sense


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## MiriMiriAru

busyCHilD said:


> I'll attempt to break this down the best I can
> 1) Depending the devastation caused by the nuclear fallout, you have to speculate how long it would really take to get the earth back to homeostasis. Could be hundreds of years, it could be thousands


True, but most descriptions of nuclear winter, while they involve airborne particles blocking solar radiation from reaching the surface, do not really suggest the sky would be blocked out completely on a global scale. The amount of explosive force needed to put that much material in the air would likely have ended the war, buy destroying both sides, and everything else besides. 

To give you an idea of what it would take, consider the Tsar Bomba (the largest nuclear device ever made), and Krakatoa. The latter's 1883 eruption is estimated to have been four times more powerful than the former, which was in turn ten times more powerful than the sum of all explosives detonated in WWII and whose seismic shock was still measurable on it bird passage around the earth. The eruption of Krakatoa caused a 1.2 drop in global temperatures for 5 years. It would take four Tsar Bomba's to achieve this. But this would still leave the sky visible. If it takes four 50 Mt nuclear weapons to achieve that, just what would it take to block out the sky for hundreds of years?



> 2) I'll side with you on this one in that using human beings to generate electricity seems very ineffective, but it may have to do with the fact that we use technology as a slave currently, all it would take is a sentient A.I. to realize that and bam you have one angry hoarde of vengeance seeking machines. Still doubtful since the three laws instilled into A.I. would most likely result in said entity doing anything in its power to meet these demands (think how animals are wired to reproduce) But all in all, probably the biggest inconsistency in the movie


Considering it's pretty much the whole point of the movie, it's a pretty fatal inconsistency. Also, considering that there was a war being conducted between the humans and machines, it would seem the three laws were not much in use.



> 3) The Architect explained Neo in the second movie, he is a mathematical anomaly that just happened as a result of the matrix's programming. So to say, he was Hope incarnate, if that makes any sense


Don't buy it. Neo is a human being, not a program. How can he be a programming anomaly? How can he be hope incarnate, incarnated within a computer simulation. That has to be one of the stupidest sounding things I've ever heard (not directed at you, but at the makers of this, what is increasingly apparent to be, piece of idiotic drivel). Really, this ties in with Smith's explanation of the Matrix, and a question that came to mind when I first watched it: why did the machines care if the humans rejected the matrix as reality? How does that help humans, to know? They're still trapped and powerless. Why make a simulation at all? Why not just keep them all in induced comas? Problem solved.


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## Rene Desrameaux

*The Movie answers all your questions*



MiriMiriAru said:


> So many people love the Matrix, and will go on about how amazing and thought provoking it is. And, on the latter point at least, they are right. However, the thought that it provoked was more about how utterly ridiculous the whole premise of the film was, more than any thoughts like "OMG, what if we'z in a computer?!?!".
> 
> There a number of key points to the film that are simply so stupid as ruin the entire things for me (feel free to add any that I may miss).
> 
> 1. "We scorched the sky"
> What the hell kind of method could possibly be employed to achieve permanent solar-blocking cloud cover? I mean, mass detonation of nuclear weapons could cause a huge amount of airborne particles to block out a lot of light, but what was depicted in the film was clearly madly roiling clouds, that apparently covered the entire planet. Right.
> 
> 2. "They turned us into batteries! (to paraphrase)"
> Really? Batteries? How much electricity does a human body produce? Wouldn't there have been more efficient ways of generating electricity? I mean, after the magic cloud show started, the machines somehow managed to build huge structures covered with life support systems and electrical generation systems, not to mention the "fields" where humans were produced, before they ran out of power. Couldn't they have just covered North America in nuclear reactors and called it a day? Waste wouldn't even have been an issue, since they're not alive, I imagine they wouldn't mind, and they probably don't give a shit about ecology. They could have just wiped humans out, why go to such elaborate lengths to imprison billions simply to create a really inefficient power generation system, a huge amount of the power from which would go into maintaining the aforementioned imprisonment. Fuel for the reactors wouldn't necessarily be a problem, since space travel's prohibitive time-frames would be meaningless to unliving machine entities.
> 
> 3. What's this whole "the One" business?
> Seriously, this is, other than the battery thing, the other main part of the film's premise. It's just so... stupid. Why would the machines, after having invested so much effort in building this incredibly dumb system, would they allow weird glitches to potentially fuck it up. I know they came up with some sort of bollocks answer later on in the series, but I don't buy it. Oh no, there are intruders in the Matrix, let's send some agents in. Wrong. Just shut off the server for that part of the Matrix and fry the intruder's target in his tank. Intruder's are now vegetables, target is dead, and some story about an asteroid wiping out Sydney could be fed to the "media". Shit, they wouldn't even need to do that, just have an asteroid wipe out Sydney and fry all of the people in their tanks. It's not like they are a finite resource. And anyway, just where does the One's power come from? The Matrix is software (or maybe firmware... whatever, it's a whole lot of programming), so Neo must be using some kind of cracker application hard coded into him. But, the Matrix is this centuries old computer system, and the One phenomenon is old hat, surely that have some quality countermeasures by now.
> 
> I think I may have had more than that, but that's really enough. The whole thing should have ended centuries before it begun, with humanity being wiped out and the earth being an irradiated ball of rock populated by inscrutable sentient machines. In fact, that's what the film should have been: a documentary about this future world, with alien machines scuttling around in the darkness screeching data at each other, going about their strange business. Who wouldn't want to watch 2 hours of that?



1. the sky was scorched because the AI's main energy source was the sun, so by doing this the human though they would gain the upper hand.

2 The human body generates more bio- electricity than a 120-volt battery and over 25000 B.T.U.'s of body heat. one of the major plots in the movie is humans vs machines so it would make sense that the machines would use humans even if the energy output is minimal. the field where humans were being produced came after not before. with an attitude like yours you could debunk just about every sifi movie or novel ever created why try to find logic in fiction.

3. have you ever heard of hackers no program is 100% proofed in full there are always loop holes, and if there are glitches its just something the machines missed and again its very funny and odd that you would try to find real life logic in a sifi movie


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## athenian200

There's yet another reason that keeps bugging me.

It's the fact that life is so much better IN the Matrix, than outside of it. Why do they want to leave? They're choosing between a fairly normal, boring, modern life... and some hellish existence fighting machines and eating gruel. Don't get me wrong, I think the guy who betrayed them later was a jerk... I mean, when you make a promise you should keep it. But I think that they should have stayed in the Matrix and lived their lives out. They could have been so much happier. I think a lot of us would LOVE to spend our time in a computer simulation half as good as the Matrix. Think about how many people enjoy video games or other forms of escapism (like Second Life) now... and imagine how many people would voluntarily join a Matrix like this.

Also, I feel like Agent Smith is the only profound or interesting character in the whole film, and he's the bad guy. It's sad when the VILLAIN is the only person in the movie you can halfway respect. I mean, on a lot of other series, I love the heroes... but on this one, I can't respect them at all.

_"I'd like to share a revelation that I've had during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species and I realized that you're not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment but you humans do not. You move to an area and you multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed and the only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet. You're a plague and we are the cure."_

They never came up with a good response to this, which is a pretty harsh truth. They just kept struggling for their "right to live" on the basis of will and self-righteousness, more or less.


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## associative

delphi367 said:


> There's yet another reason that keeps bugging me.
> 
> It's the fact that life is so much better IN the Matrix, than outside of it. Why do they want to leave? They're choosing between a fairly normal, boring, modern life... and some hellish existence fighting machines and eating gruel. Don't get me wrong, I think the guy who betrayed them later was a jerk... I mean, when you make a promise you should keep it. But I think that they should have stayed in the Matrix and lived their lives out. They could have been so much happier. I think a lot of us would LOVE to spend our time in a computer simulation half as good as the Matrix. Think about how many people enjoy video games or other forms of escapism (like Second Life) now... and imagine how many people would voluntarily join a Matrix like this.


The whole trilogy is a mediation on Free Will. How is our Free Will limited by our environment/perception? How is it limited by our natural abilities? How is it limited by the machinations of people who have gone before us?
It turns out that Neo's whole adventure is predetermined, only for him to flip this on it's head right at the end.



> Also, I feel like Agent Smith is the only profound or interesting character in the whole film, and he's the bad guy. It's sad when the VILLAIN is the only person in the movie you can halfway respect. I mean, on a lot of other series, I love the heroes... but on this one, I can't respect them at all.
> 
> _"I'd like to share a revelation that I've had during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species and I realized that you're not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment but you humans do not. You move to an area and you multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed and the only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet. You're a plague and we are the cure."_
> 
> They never came up with a good response to this, which is a pretty harsh truth. They just kept struggling for their "right to live" on the basis of will and self-righteousness, more or less.


It's an example of the appeal-to-nature fallacy. If you need more examples: just cruise the Debates section of this forum.


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## Subtle Murder

Apparently the film is based somewhat loosely on Plato's Cave.

Allegory of the Cave - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The idea is that we're all prisoners chained to a wall (the Matrix) and we cannot see reality, only a projection of reality (shadows upon the wall/the Matrix). To know reality is to become free, which is why people choose to leave the Matrix. They free their mind when they realise their surroundings are not real, and are then able to fully see and recognize objects that are real.

I imagine it's something to do with enlightenment and being able to see through the things that are designed to blind us and keep us captive. The rest of it is just Hollywood fodder to entertain the masses. 

This is just one theory.


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## Sporadic Aura

The thought provoking parts of the Matrix are in the premise not the details. Although it's primary goal is to be entertaining, like most movies. Does a movie have to be completely realistic to be entertaining? I guess that's up to the individual.


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## Sporadic Aura

@delphi367



> There's yet another reason that keeps bugging me.
> 
> It's the fact that life is so much better IN the Matrix, than outside of it. Why do they want to leave? They're choosing between a fairly normal, boring, modern life... and some hellish existence fighting machines and eating gruel. Don't get me wrong, I think the guy who betrayed them later was a jerk... I mean, when you make a promise you should keep it. But I think that they should have stayed in the Matrix and lived their lives out. They could have been so much happier. I think a lot of us would LOVE to spend our time in a computer simulation half as good as the Matrix. Think about how many people enjoy video games or other forms of escapism (like Second Life) now... and imagine how many people would voluntarily join a Matrix like this.


And have humanity stay slaves for eternity?


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## athenian200

Sporadic Aura said:


> And have humanity stay slaves for eternity?


Yeah, it would destroy the whole plot. But still, their goal kind of annoys me, because it's impossible for me to relate to it. Reality is something I prefer not to deal with unless I have to. xD


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## Judson Joist

MiriMiriAru said:


> "We scorched the sky"


Operation Dark Storm is explained in 'The Second Renaissance: Part 2', a story in 'The Animatrix' anthology which explains the origin of the Matrix.






It looks like they used some kind of magnetic dust to block out sunlight. The concept is ridiculous, of course, because it would mean certain death for all life on the planet, including all human life. We simply wouldn't have the resources to carry on, nevermind the machines. Also, as per the story, we're the ones who instigated the conflict between man and machine by oppressing and exploiting machines in the first place, so we really got what we deserved.


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## Jennywocky

associative said:


> The whole trilogy is a mediation on Free Will. How is our Free Will limited by our environment/perception? How is it limited by our natural abilities? How is it limited by the machinations of people who have gone before us?
> It turns out that Neo's whole adventure is predetermined, only for him to flip this on it's head right at the end.


The funny part is that he was designed to exercise choice -- the entire purpose of the One within the Matrix was to be the undefined variable; his existence reflects the human capacity for choice that contributes inevitably to the system breakdown and concurrent reboot. Without the capacity for choice, the system collapses when "whole crops [of humans] are lost" because they can't function without it; humans need at least a pretense of choice. The One embodies this designed "chaos" within the otherwise orderly system. Unfortunately, it also inevitably breaks down the system.

Neo fought his role and tried to stay past his allotted time because he loved Trinity; in the end, he relented and embraced his fate because every other option he tried in order to avoid the inevitable failed. He "chooses" to fight, until he realizes it will fail; and in the end he "chooses" to fulfill his function, just in a different context. 

So we're back to square one.



busyCHilD said:


> 3) The Architect explained Neo in the second movie, he is a mathematical anomaly that just happened as a result of the matrix's programming. So to say, he was Hope incarnate, if that makes any sense


Well, he was the DESIGNED anomaly within the system that embodied the capacity for choice. But choice -> not always doing things in an orderly way -> chaos -> system breakdown/entropy. hence the eventual reboot using a few select humans from Zion, because a system crash is inevitable when too much chaos exists and energy is dispersed too thinly.

That was the subversive part; he thought he was fighting for choice and freedom for the humans, but he was just part of the system he thought he was fighting. It was a beautiful twist.


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## Jennywocky

delphi367 said:


> It's the fact that life is so much better IN the Matrix, than outside of it. Why do they want to leave? They're choosing between a fairly normal, boring, modern life... and some hellish existence fighting machines and eating gruel. Don't get me wrong, I think the guy who betrayed them later was a jerk... I mean, when you make a promise you should keep it. But I think that they should have stayed in the Matrix and lived their lives out. They could have been so much happier. I think a lot of us would LOVE to spend our time in a computer simulation half as good as the Matrix. Think about how many people enjoy video games or other forms of escapism (like Second Life) now... and imagine how many people would voluntarily join a Matrix like this.


I think the problem is that human beings will often pick hardship over recognized slavery. We're kind of stubborn that way. Some of us do sell out, yes; but a lot of us won't in a situation where the choices are obvious. Especially in the USA, that's something that existed within the first moments of our country. We don't like the thought of not being in charge of our own lives -- but I think the movie even says that.



> Also, I feel like Agent Smith is the only profound or interesting character in the whole film, and he's the bad guy. It's sad when the VILLAIN is the only person in the movie you can halfway respect. I mean, on a lot of other series, I love the heroes... but on this one, I can't respect them at all.


I think Smith was great, although I agree that the acting got a little hammy later -- it's like Weaving was channeling himself channeling himself. 

Smith is the flip side of Neo. Either he acts similarly to Neo or he does the opposite of Neo. 
Neo is One, Smith is Many.
Neo represents choice, Smith represents coercion and enslavement/clones.
Neo offers energy, Smith consumes energy.
Neo was killed by Smith, Smith was killed by Neo.
They have imprinted on each other.
Neo is 1 (literally the "One"), Smith is the "0."
Neither can destroy each other without destroying themselves.
When they merge, they end -- it is the completion.

The analogies just go on and on, it was pretty wonderful.

But as the "head demon" in human terms in "The Matrix" (first movie), Smith was just awesome. I liked that he had his own agenda: He hated human beings, he felt trapped in the hell the humans were in, he wanted FREE and that was what drove him. The other Agents/demons didn't understand him and were unnerved when he would break contact with the system in order to have moments of secrecy.



> _"I'd like to share a revelation that I've had during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species and I realized that you're not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment but you humans do not. You move to an area and you multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed and the only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet. You're a plague and we are the cure."_
> 
> They never came up with a good response to this, which is a pretty harsh truth.


I thought it was pretty appropriate. We humans like to see ourselves as special, but we behave just like any other species.


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## nevermore

Sporadic Aura said:


> The thought provoking parts of the Matrix are in the premise not the details. Although it's primary goal is to be entertaining, like most movies. Does a movie have to be completely realistic to be entertaining? I guess that's up to the individual.


Yeah. Great points on MiriMiriAru's part, and I agree with pretty much all of them, but personally I've always taken this as a fun action movie, with some half-baked philosophy tossed in. Not a deep intellectual film. 

Too much holey logic can detract from a good movie, but some internet critics aside I don't think people go to movies to follow a logical storyline. They go to be entertained.


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## 2fast4u2

The matrix was a slap in our face at our own expense..

Its thought provoking for a reason, sadly most dont even realize it was a documentary, not a movie.


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## Aya the Abysswalker

2fast4u2 said:


> The matrix was a slap in our face at our own expense..
> 
> Its thought provoking for a reason, sadly most dont even realize it was a documentary, not a movie.


A documentary?


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## OrdinarinessIsAFWTD

It has some interesting ideas awash in a pretentious stew of Playstation-commercial trappings and allusions to _Paradise Lost_.

EDIT: Proud red pill popper, here.


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## FearAndTrembling

Subtle Murder said:


> Apparently the film is based somewhat loosely on Plato's Cave.
> 
> Allegory of the Cave - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> The idea is that we're all prisoners chained to a wall (the Matrix) and we cannot see reality, only a projection of reality (shadows upon the wall/the Matrix). To know reality is to become free, which is why people choose to leave the Matrix. They free their mind when they realise their surroundings are not real, and are then able to fully see and recognize objects that are real.
> 
> I imagine it's something to do with enlightenment and being able to see through the things that are designed to blind us and keep us captive. The rest of it is just Hollywood fodder to entertain the masses.
> 
> This is just one theory.


It is a hodgepodge of many old philosophical questions, done pretty well. They did the "brain in the vat" thing just about literally for example. 

To the OP: don't let a few details ruin a great thing. Yes, the battery thing is impractical, but who cares. Same with other stuff. It is a grand movie.


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## 2fast4u2

Aya Nikopol said:


> A documentary?


The matrix wasnt a movie to the initiated.


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## Aya the Abysswalker

2fast4u2 said:


> The matrix wasnt a movie to the initiated.


How so?


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## 2fast4u2

Aya Nikopol said:


> How so?


Youd have to be willing to open up your mind to what I have to say, and know, deep down that I only care to bring you to the truth of this reality.

Your first reaction will be denial, you will write it off as fantastical delusion, no doubt about it, or you will take what I say and really think on it..

up to you..

Once you know, as some here do, there is no going back.

I have to prepare supper for my wife, shes fallen ill with a cold, but id be willing to show you what Im talking about. That video I posted has more truth than you know..


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## Tad Cooper

I could give you a really annoying and vague answer....it's a metaphor.

Personally I liked it AND Fight Club. Both were well made films with good ideas thrown around to explore (of course you wont always agree with them, but thats why people discuss films!) I think saying a film is stupid is saying that someones opinion is stupid. It's all subjective and you cant ever say anything about it other than an opinion.


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## Aya the Abysswalker

2fast4u2 said:


> Youd have to be willing to open up your mind to what I have to say, and know, deep down that I only care to bring you to the truth of this reality.
> 
> Your first reaction will be denial, you will write it off as fantastical delusion, no doubt about it, or you will take what I say and really think on it..
> 
> up to you..
> 
> Once you know, as some here do, there is no going back.
> 
> I have to prepare supper for my wife, shes fallen ill with a cold, but id be willing to show you what Im talking about. That video I posted has more truth than you know..


What truth? That the Matrix is a metaphor for how chained we are to our vices, power and money? I was about 12 when I saw the first two movies and I understood it, but there is more to it? I'm interested.


----------



## 2fast4u2

Aya Nikopol said:


> What truth? That the Matrix is a metaphor for how chained we are to our vices, power and money? I was about 12 when I saw the first two movies and I understood it, but there is more to it? I'm interested.


We are slaves.

Ill elaborate a bit more later..


I wont forget I promise. Just dealing with my wife atm..


----------



## Aya the Abysswalker

2fast4u2 said:


> We are slaves.
> 
> Ill elaborate a bit more later..
> 
> 
> I wont forget I promise. Just dealing with my wife atm..


Nothing new...


----------



## CaptSwan

I'm guessing they tried to give humanity a sort of Jesus to root for, because, if the machines control the system, humans and can do gigantic cyber-pods... what could humans really do in the real world, let alone inside the Matrix? And, I guess that, after a while; the "Architect" decided to stuff in a One because, he was simply bored out of his mind... Humans are lame, inside and outside the Matrix; so, I guess he didn't have the brains to invent "Minecraft" or "Candy Crush". Which, brings me to another question... If the movie was set in 1999, the "pinnacle of human civilization"... did the Matrix stay stucked in that year or went forward? If it went forward; how would they develop that world? I mean, the could not recreate the world because; that'd lead the machines made by the humans inside the Matrix to build another Matrix; which would turn "Matrix" into "Inception"...


----------



## Tzara

MiriMiriAru said:


> 1. "We scorched the sky"
> What the hell kind of method could possibly be employed to achieve permanent solar-blocking cloud cover?
> 
> 2. "They turned us into batteries! (to paraphrase)"
> 
> 3. What's this whole "the One" business?


1) Sulfur Clouds. Magma continuously surfacing because the tectonic plates are damaged. Is just one way it could happen. But seriously lots of things could do that, it doesnt exactly need to be permanent, there are temporary stuff that will last for thousands of years.

2) Yeah ok thats pretty stupid, but it is what the plot is based on. Humans do have pretty large memories, It could have referred to as a RAM factory instead of a power plant.

3) There are bound to be flaws in software, did you ever code anything? Its so hard to make something entirely bug free, so you use alternative methods (exception handling). The agents are just handling the exceptions in the system, which is a valid answer to me because It relieves the programmer of returning to the program every now and then to maintain it by fixing bugging humans. They did however come up with a lame answer.

But frankly, considering *other movies* matrix(1) is pretty high on my list. If you think these about matrix I advise you not to ever watch anything with *Adam Sandler* in it.


----------



## 2fast4u2

CaptSwan said:


> I'm guessing they tried to give humanity a sort of Jesus to root for, because, if the machines control the system, humans and can do gigantic cyber-pods... what could humans really do in the real world, let alone inside the Matrix? And, I guess that, after a while; the "Architect" decided to stuff in a One because, he was simply bored out of his mind... Humans are lame, inside and outside the Matrix; so, I guess he didn't have the brains to invent "Minecraft" or "Candy Crush". Which, brings me to another question... If the movie was set in 1999, the "pinnacle of human civilization"... did the Matrix stay stucked in that year or went forward? If it went forward; how would they develop that world? I mean, the could not recreate the world because; that'd lead the machines made by the humans inside the Matrix to build another Matrix; which would turn "Matrix" into "Inception"...


Ill explain it the way we understand it.

The matrix is now.

Morpheus is the Pope, or the false prophet of Revelation, look at my avatar, his outfit is the same as the Pope, only his outfit is black, not white like the pope.

Neo- Antichrist, the man who people will look for to save humanity from the coming world war.

Agent Smith- The human race, or the infection that plagues satans playground.

The Matrix is the reality your are sold.

As a human, without tv, products, science to explain everything, and employment you are left with the real world. Satan doesnt want that, he needs you to be immersed in anything that will take your mind off of God, and place the focus on yourself.

There is more to it but that's the general understanding.


----------



## Aya the Abysswalker

2fast4u2 said:


> Ill explain it the way we understand it.
> 
> The matrix is now.
> 
> Morpheus is the Pope, or the false prophet of Revelation, look at my avatar, his outfit is the same as the Pope, only his outfit is black, not white like the pope.
> 
> Neo- Antichrist, the man who people will look for to save humanity from the coming world war.
> 
> Agent Smith- The human race, or the infection that plagues satans playground.
> 
> The Matrix is the reality your are sold.
> 
> As a human, without tv, products, science to explain everything, and employment you are left with the real world. Satan doesnt want that, he needs you to be immersed in anything that will take your mind off of God, and place the focus on yourself.
> 
> There is more to it but that's the general understanding.


God wants us to go back living in caves and dying because we have a cold? I thought He wanted the best for us.

My teory always was that Neo and Smith represent the binary numbers (1 and 0) while the movie kind of referenced Plato's work.
The Matrix represents our addictions and vices the fake things we we're told that we can't live without, but in fact we can live without.
Science is not one of those. Even outside the Matrix, the rebels use it.


----------



## 2fast4u2

Aya Nikopol said:


> God wants us to go back living in caves and dying because we have a cold? I thought He wanted the best for us.
> 
> My teory always was that Neo and Smith represent the binary numbers (1 and 0) while the movie kind of referenced Plato's work.
> The Matrix represents our addictions and vices the fake things we we're told that we can't live without, but in fact we can live without.
> Science is not one of those. Even outside the Matrix, the rebels use it.


The movie was nothing more than a plan being laid out for the real thing that is coming...

Humans will look to a savior to put an end to the madness, and one will emerge. That is neo, or the antichrist, a false savior.

He is killed before the coming of Christ.


Now, let me give you the reality of it all.


Ever since the world was created, satan, the god of this world has been planning a hostile takeover via humanity under his influence.

Some humans are of God, some of satan. Gods people cant be corrupted by satans lies.

His plan from day one is to rule the earth as God. But this requires a full takeover of planet earth.


The people who are in leaque with satan are those who have the monopoly on information, money, and resources. You could think of these as the Rothschild's, Rockefeller's, ect..

For example, all news outlets are owned and operated by the Rockefellers.. CNN and Fox compete with each other, but they are simply owned at the top by the same people, they control the information we are given, its all smoke and mirrors.

They are moving forward with their plans to fully takeover the world with a totalitarian style government in which every human is subject to them financially and religiously. But people have their faith, something they cant control, so they need a way to control peoples faith, and this is where the Pope comes in, he will vouch for the antichrist and lead his followers to the new beast system that is emerging.

All war is staged, planned out exactly how they want it, this keeps us busy and gives the illusion that world leaders are not working together, rather against each other and people buy it up.

The rogues that didnt stick to the plan are people like Saddam, Ghadaffi, and soon Iran, who are attempting to hold the world financial markets hostage by selling oil for Gold and resources rather than the US dollar, which is the only reason the US can stay afloat.

Its all about to come to an end with a world wide financial meltdown, on top of the coming war with Israel, and people will look to a savior to put an end to the misery. Enter the antichrist, satan incarnate, the opposite of Jesus Christ, our true savior.

This isnt a conspiracy theory anymore, its a conspiracy fact, they arent hiding anymore..

The mark of the Beast is an identification system to show ownership by the Beast system, if you think this cant happen, think again..


----------



## Aya the Abysswalker

2fast4u2 said:


> The movie was nothing more than a plan being laid out for the real thing that is coming...
> 
> Humans will look to a savior to put an end to the madness, and one will emerge. That is neo, or the antichrist, a false savior.
> 
> He is killed before the coming of Christ.
> 
> 
> Now, let me give you the reality of it all.
> 
> 
> Ever since the world was created, satan, the god of this world has been planning a hostile takeover via humanity under his influence.
> 
> Some humans are of God, some of satan. Gods people cant be corrupted by satans lies.
> 
> His plan from day one is to rule the earth as God. But this requires a full takeover of planet earth.
> 
> 
> The people who are in leaque with satan are those who have the monopoly on information, money, and resources. You could think of these as the Rothschild's, Rockefeller's, ect..
> 
> For example, all news outlets are owned and operated by the Rockefellers.. CNN and Fox compete with each other, but they are simply owned at the top by the same people, they control the information we are given, its all smoke and mirrors.
> 
> They are moving forward with their plans to fully takeover the world with a totalitarian style government in which every human is subject to them financially and religiously. But people have their faith, something they cant control, so they need a way to control peoples faith, and this is where the Pope comes in, he will vouch for the antichrist and lead his followers to the new beast system that is emerging.
> 
> All war is staged, planned out exactly how they want it, this keeps us busy and gives the illusion that world leaders are not working together, rather against each other and people buy it up.
> 
> The rogues that didnt stick to the plan are people like Saddam, Ghadaffi, and soon Iran, who are attempting to hold the world financial markets hostage by selling oil for Gold and resources rather than the US dollar, which is the only reason the US can stay afloat.
> 
> Its all about to come to an end with a world wide financial meltdown, on top of the coming war with Israel, and people will look to a savior to put an end to the misery. Enter the antichrist, satan incarnate, the opposite of Jesus Christ, our true savior.
> 
> This isnt a conspiracy theory anymore, its a conspiracy fact, they arent hiding anymore..
> 
> The mark of the Beast is an identification system to show ownership by the Beast system, if you think this cant happen, think again..


A question: wasn't Satan Lucifer who was cast away from Heaven because he rebelled against God's love for humanity? Or am I confusing versions again?

For more that I think that this makes sense (because it does and it's very interesting), I have to be reminded that Great Depression was far worse than this and we survived it.


----------



## 2fast4u2

Aya Nikopol said:


> A question: wasn't Satan Lucifer who was cast away from Heaven because he rebelled against God's love for humanity? Or am I confusing versions again?
> 
> For more that I think that this makes sense (because it does and it's very interesting), I have to be reminded that Great Depression was far worse than this and we survived it.


Satan rebelled against God because he thought he himself could be God, but there is only one God.

Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. 
Isa 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. 



The Great Depression was not only staged, but was literally nothing compared to the financial disaster in 2008, and further, the one that is coming this year. 

The Great Depression was the setup for the credit system as we know it.

The US works on a ponzy scheme, are you familiar with quantitative easing?


----------



## Aya the Abysswalker

2fast4u2 said:


> Satan rebelled against God because he thought he himself could be God, but there is only one God.
> 
> Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
> Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
> Isa 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
> 
> 
> 
> The Great Depression was not only staged, but was literally nothing compared to the financial disaster in 2008, and further, the one that is coming this year.
> 
> The Great Depression was the setup for the credit system as we know it.
> 
> The US works on a ponzy scheme, are you familiar with quantitative easing?


I'm confusing versions again.

I have no idea what quantitative easing is.


----------



## 2fast4u2

Aya Nikopol said:


> I have no idea what quantitative easing is.


Im not sure where your confusion comes from, the english translations essentially say the same thing, its the different sects of Christianity that seem to differ in their understanding, the Bible is still the standard.

QE is the process by which the financial markets are manipulated, money isnt real, its a tool to control with.
Quantitative easing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Have a look at the dollar bill for example. You look at the image on the back and dont think anything of it. Just like the movie the Matrix, you watch it, and assume its fantasy because its a movie, but thats the point of it. If they can convince you that its all for entertainment, you will accept it as such.

Novus Ordo Seclorum literally means "New World Order" or the Beast system of the antichrist. Money is not evil, its the love of money.

1Ti_6:10 * For the love of money is the root of all evil:* which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. 


At the top is the all seeing eye of lucifer, it represents his power over men who monopolize the resources of the earth.


----------



## 2fast4u2

They communicate through movies.














































There is much more..


Tell me, do you believe in coincidence?


----------



## 2fast4u2

See the pyramid?


----------



## Stelmaria

The Matrix could have been great, indeed the first one, besides a few things (batteries!?!) could have set up for a really thought provoking sequel. All we got though was some modestly entertaining action flicks with great cinematography.



2fast4u2 said:


> Tell me, do you believe in coincidence?


Absolutely.

The alternative to accepting coincidence for me, is wondering why I can't be psychic *all the time*...


----------



## Aya the Abysswalker

2fast4u2 said:


> Im not sure where your confusion comes from, the english translations essentially say the same thing, its the different sects of Christianity that seem to differ in their understanding, the Bible is still the standard.


I'm Portuguese so the first version I'll read is in my native language and different translations use different words that might change the meaning of what's said (that's quite easy to happen in Portuguese).
Also I was confusing it with the Jewish version of the story, where Lucifer refuse to bow down to Adam and Eve because he loved God much more than the Humans and considered the Angels the perfect criation.
It's not uncommon for me to make these small confusions, I'm not religious and I only read about it and take it as mythology so I take it as different versions of the same myth.
Not so long ago I made a confusion between Christian Angels and Jinns. The Arabic countries adpoted the concept of the Jinns from their older myths, as such Allah created three different races. Angels with no free will, Jinns that work like our Angels and Humans.

The Pyramid is a symbol of the Illumation of the Age of Rationality from the 19th century if I remember correctly. It was put in the money to represent the illumination that American would be given with their freedom. Something among those lines, I don't remember very well. I don't remember my History classes as well as I would like.

Want something even better?
Do you know a game called Deus Ex? Probably, it's one of the most iconic FPS that ever hit the PC and it the Twin Towers are missing from New York. In the devolpers explained that they couldn't put the texture in the game even though the textures are present in the files of the game. In the game it is explained that a terrorist attack took down the Twin Towers.

The game out in 26th June 2000.




> During sections of the game where the New York skyline is visible in the background, the two towers of the World Trade Center are noticeably missing; the real towers were destroyed a year after the game was released. Harvey Smith has explained that due to texture memory limitations, the portion of the skyline with the twin towers exists in the game's data files but had to be left out of the final game, with the other half mirrored in place of it. According to Smith, during the game's development, the developers justified the lack of the towers by stating that terrorists had destroyed the World Trade Center earlier in the game's storyline.[SUP][37][/SUP] Warren Spector however states "I wish we could say that we did it on purpose and we were sort of seeing the future. But it was actually just a mistake. The artist who did the skybox just uh, left them out. And it sort of worked out in an unfortunate way."[SUP][39][/SUP]


----------



## 2fast4u2

Aya Nikopol said:


> I'm Portuguese so the first version I'll read is in my native language and different translations use different words that might change the meaning of what's said (that's quite easy to happen in Portuguese).
> Also I was confusing it with the Jewish version of the story, where Lucifer refuse to bow down to Adam and Eve because he loved God much more than the Humans and considered the Angels the perfect criation.
> It's not uncommon for me to make these small confusions, I'm not religious and I only read about it and take it as mythology so I take it as different versions of the same myth.
> Not so long ago I made a confusion between Christian Angels and Jinns. The Arabic countries adpoted the concept of the Jinns from their older myths, as such Allah created three different races. Angels with no free will, Jinns that work like our Angels and Humans.
> 
> The Pyramid is a symbol of the Illumation of the Age of Rationality from the 19th century if I remember correctly. It was put in the money to represent the illumination that American would be given with their freedom. Something among those lines, I don't remember very well. I don't remember my History classes as well as I would like.
> 
> Want something even better?
> Do you know a game called Deus Ex? Probably, it's one of the most iconic FPS that ever hit the PC and it the Twin Towers are missing from New York. In the devolpers explained that they couldn't put the texture in the game even though the textures are present in the files of the game. In the game it is explained that a terrorist attack took down the Twin Towers.
> 
> The game out in 26th June 2000.


I remember Lisbon.. Good times.. I went to the Hard Rock there, and a bunch of people tried to sell me drugs.. 


Not familiar with Deus ex.. Im one of the geeks that doesnt play video games at all.. lol

BUT, that is very compelling.. indeed..


----------



## Aya the Abysswalker

2fast4u2 said:


> I remember Lisbon.. Good times.. I went to the Hard Rock there, and a bunch of people tried to sell me drugs..
> 
> 
> Not familiar with Deus ex.. Im one of the geeks that doesnt play video games at all.. lol
> 
> BUT, that is very compelling.. indeed..


Fun fact: I went to two Hard Rocks in Spain (Mardid and Barcelona) and never was even near Hard Rock Lisbon. And I was never sold drugs there and I go there quite often.

If you're one that likes conspiracies I suggest you play the Deus Ex series, it's filled with it.


----------



## 2fast4u2

Aya Nikopol said:


> Fun fact: I went to two Hard Rocks in Spain (Mardid and Barcelona) and never was even near Hard Rock Lisbon. And I was never sold drugs there and I go there quite often.
> 
> If you're one that likes conspiracies I suggest you play the Deus Ex series, it's filled with it.


I just had people trying to sell me heroin, hash and weed in Lisbon..

Whats that main street that the Hard Rock is on, you know what Im talking about?? Its a bustling street with vendors and stores and stuff.. Thats where people were approaching me.

Im going to research that Dues Ex game, i hate the word conspiracy, I just see it as secrecy.


----------



## Aya the Abysswalker

2fast4u2 said:


> I just had people trying to sell me heroin, hash and weed in Lisbon..
> 
> Whats that main street that the Hard Rock is on, you know what Im talking about?? Its a bustling street with vendors and stores and stuff.. Thats where people were approaching me.
> 
> Im going to research that Dues Ex game, i hate the word conspiracy, I just see it as secrecy.


I don't know where the hell you were because that never happened to me anywhere.

I know the street but I never went to Hard Rock, maybe I'll ask a friend to take me one of these days.


----------



## 2fast4u2

Aya Nikopol said:


> I don't know where the hell you were because that never happened to me anywhere.
> 
> I know the street but I never went to Hard Rock, maybe I'll ask a friend to take me one of these days.


That was before Lisbon legalized drugs.. maybe its different now??


----------



## Aya the Abysswalker

2fast4u2 said:


> That was before Lisbon legalized drugs.. maybe its different now??


I think no such thing happened. When were you in Lisbon? The year, I mean.


----------



## Jennywocky

CaptSwan said:


> I'm guessing they tried to give humanity a sort of Jesus to root for, because, if the machines control the system, humans and can do gigantic cyber-pods... what could humans really do in the real world, let alone inside the Matrix? And, I guess that, after a while; the "Architect" decided to stuff in a One because, he was simply bored out of his mind... Humans are lame, inside and outside the Matrix; so, I guess he didn't have the brains to invent "Minecraft" or "Candy Crush". Which, brings me to another question... If the movie was set in 1999, the "pinnacle of human civilization"... did the Matrix stay stucked in that year or went forward? If it went forward; how would they develop that world? I mean, the could not recreate the world because; that'd lead the machines made by the humans inside the Matrix to build another Matrix; which would turn "Matrix" into "Inception"...


I assume based on all the information we were actually given by the dialogue in the movies that time stayed in 1999. They had tried different times, and they had also tried utopian worlds, and the system basically would collapse. I think Morpheus tells Neo it's actually more like 2199, in terms of actual chronological years. 

So it has been 1999 for what, 50-100 years?

I assume the Agents are the lock-down mechanism to keep humans from redeveloping technology within the Matrix to create Matrices in Matrices. Technology simply doesn't advance. Since they're hardwired into the Matrix, this wouldn't be too hard to control, it's just a computer system where the machines can change the code at any time and even rewire the world (as we see them do when need be). 

Then again, it was a movie meant to look retro + advanced in clothes design at the same time, rather than "real," so maybe it was just an oversight.

But if you read the rest of the thread, the role of the One and why the Architect made him (in his own words) have been discussed at length. The Architect doesn't get "bored" -- as he says at the end, "What do you think I am? Human?" He is Order personified (as much as the Oracle is Intuition, again in the words of the movie) and only acts rationally, he's happiest when the system is functioning as designed.


----------



## 2fast4u2

Aya Nikopol said:


> I think no such thing happened. When were you in Lisbon? The year, I mean.


2005, I was there for 3 days..

I had a great time, and the city itself is rather beautiful.

The cops broke my buddies finger for puking in public and he didnt give them money for a fine they wanted, it was pretty crazy..


----------



## 2fast4u2

Jennywocky said:


> I assume based on all the information we were actually given by the dialogue in the movies that time stayed in 1999. They had tried different times, and they had also tried utopian worlds, and the system basically would collapse. I think Morpheus tells Neo it's actually more like 2199, in terms of actual chronological years.
> 
> So it has been 1999 for what, 50-100 years?
> 
> I assume the Agents are the lock-down mechanism to keep humans from redeveloping technology within the Matrix to create Matrices in Matrices. Technology simply doesn't advance. Since they're hardwired into the Matrix, this wouldn't be too hard to control, it's just a computer system where the machines can change the code at any time and even rewire the world (as we see them do when need be).
> 
> Then again, it was a movie meant to look retro + advanced in clothes design at the same time, rather than "real," so maybe it was just an oversight.
> 
> But if you read the rest of the thread, the role of the One and why the Architect made him (in his own words) have been discussed at length. The Architect doesn't get "bored" -- as he says at the end, "What do you think I am? Human?" He is Order personified (as much as the Oracle is Intuition, again in the words of the movie) and only acts rationally, he's happiest when the system is functioning as designed.


Could the architect have been meant to represent God?

Hm.. something I never thought about..


----------



## Jennywocky

2fast4u2 said:


> Could the architect have been meant to represent God?
> 
> Hm.. something I never thought about..


If you listen to the dialogue, the Architect is a program that was created to design the Matrix. The Oracle was also a program, but she represents intuition and chaos/freedom -- the non-linear.

The obvious "god" comparison in the movie is the Machine God, the "Deux Ex Machina," who Neo goes to strike a bargain with. His name gives it away: He's literally the "God from the machine." It's all spelled out.

Of course, sticking a guy in a white suit with a beard who "created the matrix" into the movie is obviously playing off western mindsets that think of god like an old guy with a white beard who created the world. But ultimately he's not the guy in charge here. Like much of the movie, he's just one layer of truth/knowledge within the actual Matrix.


----------



## 2fast4u2

Jennywocky said:


> If you listen to the dialogue, the Architect is a program that was created to design the Matrix. The Oracle was also a program, but she represents intuition and chaos/freedom -- the non-linear.
> 
> The obvious "god" comparison in the movie is the Machine God, the "Deux Ex Machina," who Neo goes to strike a bargain with. His name gives it away: He's literally the "God from the machine."


Ah... this brings to light something I never thought about as well..

hm..

I wonder, could this "architect" be mean to represent the bankers or those who actually control this world.. 


good stuff..


----------



## Aya the Abysswalker

2fast4u2 said:


> 2005, I was there for 3 days..
> 
> I had a great time, and the city itself is rather beautiful.
> 
> The cops broke my buddies finger for puking in public and he didnt give them money for a fine they wanted, it was pretty crazy..


I don't know where you were to get sold drugs like that. The fact that drugs were discriminilized doesn't mean they're legal. You can carry weed in small amounts, but you'll go to jail for planting and raising the plant. If you were in were in the bad side of the city (like Amadora) it's no suprise that happens.
I reckon that Porto is far superior to Lisbon.




















Cops are not very forgiving here especial during the night.


----------



## 2fast4u2

Aya Nikopol said:


> I don't know where you were to get sold drugs like that. The fact that drugs were discriminilized doesn't mean they're legal. You can carry weed in small amounts, but you'll go to jail for planting and raising the plant. If you were in were in the bad side of the city (like Amadora) it's no suprise that happens.
> I reckon that Porto is far superior to Lisbon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cops are not very forgiving here especial during the night.



The street was Rua Aurea, closer to the water, just some hobo's walked up to us trying to hustle us..

Prob because we looked very American..


----------



## Jennywocky

2fast4u2 said:


> Ah... this brings to light something I never thought about as well..
> 
> hm..
> 
> I wonder, could this "architect" be mean to represent the bankers or those who actually control this world..
> 
> 
> good stuff..


I think you're reaching, personally. The analogy could be drawn, I guess, but it's not really the best (or even ONE of the best interpretations), as the movie rarely touches on banking that specifically; it's focused on the themes of determination vs free will ultimately, and focuses on various mythologies for its unpacking. 

At most it deals with the Merovingian, the most powerful program aside from the Architect and Oracle in the Matrix, who operates in power, control, wealth, etc. The Merovingian definitely is a huge analogy to the western Devil as well as the gods of death from other mythologies; he makes deals, he controls the "powers and principalities of this world," his nightclub is called "Hel" and you descend into it, his wife is Persephone who was kidnapped by Hades (god of the dead/underworld) in Greek mythology, he refers to Seraph (by name, an angelic being) as "wingless" AKA a fallen angel, although Seraph is redeeming himself by serving and protecting the Oracle. A fallen angel is rather like what the Merovingian seems to be himself; he was supposed to go back to the Source to be recycled and reborn but refused to relinquish his power and thus stayed in the Matrix; he will never be reunited with the Source, which is kind of "completion" for programs.

I think he represents the powers of the world (including banks and capital), but I think the Architect is more clearly meant to be the precise, linear, logical creator of the Matrix; it's even in his name.


----------



## hailfire

I had to watch that movie in my philosophy class in grade 11. First time I saw it. Made zero sense to me at the time lol.


----------



## Aya the Abysswalker

2fast4u2 said:


> The street was Rua Aurea, closer to the water, just some hobo's walked up to us trying to hustle us..
> 
> Prob because we looked very American..


I don't know why is that a problem.


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## 2fast4u2

Jennywocky said:


> I think you're reaching, personally. The analogy could be drawn, I guess, but it's not really the best (or even ONE of the best interpretations), as the movie rarely touches on banking that specifically; it's focused on the themes of determination vs free will ultimately, and focuses on various mythologies for its unpacking.
> 
> At most it deals with the Merovingian, the most powerful program aside from the Architect and Oracle in the Matrix, who operates in power, control, wealth, etc. The Merovingian definitely is a huge analogy to the western Devil as well as the gods of death from other mythologies; he makes deals, he controls the "powers and principalities of this world," his nightclub is called "Hel" and you descend into it, his wife is Persephone who was kidnapped by Hades (god of the dead/underworld) in Greek mythology, he refers to Seraph (by name, an angelic being) as "wingless" AKA a fallen angel, although Seraph is redeeming himself by serving and protecting the Oracle. A fallen angel is rather like what the Merovingian seems to be himself; he was supposed to go back to the Source to be recycled and reborn but refused to relinquish his power and thus stayed in the Matrix; he will never be reunited with the Source, which is kind of "completion" for programs.
> 
> I think he represents the powers of the world (including banks and capital), but I think the Architect is more clearly meant to be the precise, linear, logical creator of the Matrix; it's even in his name.


wow, I need to stew on that for a bit..


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## 2fast4u2

Aya Nikopol said:


> I don't know why is that a problem.


A problem? not really, didnt bother me.. 

Come to the states, you could get offered smack here too.. lol


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## 2fast4u2

Jennywocky said:


> I think you're reaching, personally. The analogy could be drawn, I guess, but it's not really the best (or even ONE of the best interpretations), as the movie rarely touches on banking that specifically; it's focused on the themes of determination vs free will ultimately, and focuses on various mythologies for its unpacking.
> 
> At most it deals with the Merovingian, the most powerful program aside from the Architect and Oracle in the Matrix, who operates in power, control, wealth, etc. The Merovingian definitely is a huge analogy to the western Devil as well as the gods of death from other mythologies; he makes deals, he controls the "powers and principalities of this world," his nightclub is called "Hel" and you descend into it, his wife is Persephone who was kidnapped by Hades (god of the dead/underworld) in Greek mythology, he refers to Seraph (by name, an angelic being) as "wingless" AKA a fallen angel, although Seraph is redeeming himself by serving and protecting the Oracle. A fallen angel is rather like what the Merovingian seems to be himself; he was supposed to go back to the Source to be recycled and reborn but refused to relinquish his power and thus stayed in the Matrix; he will never be reunited with the Source, which is kind of "completion" for programs.
> 
> I think he represents the powers of the world (including banks and capital), but I think the Architect is more clearly meant to be the precise, linear, logical creator of the Matrix; it's even in his name.


Ok, stew complete..

Here is your Merovingian.


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