# To cheat or not to cheat?



## Dolorous Haze (Jun 2, 2012)

I've heard a lot about cheat meals and how they can boost metabolism and motivation. It's hard for me to find a balance when eating healthy and exercising. I either do too much or too little. I'm afraid that a cheat meal might throw me off and make me feel guilty and depressed. Do any of you have cheat meals? How often and how "bad" are they?


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## Sidoba (Jun 13, 2013)

It all depends on what you are trying to achieve... What you really need to consider is your caloric consumption vs expenditure. If you are trying to lose weight, then the consumption needs to be less than the expenditure. Generally speaking, to loose 1lb/week, you need to expend 500 calories more than you consume each day. If you are trying to gain weight, it is exactly the opposite. 

Cheat meals or not, you should always be aware of the calories you consume. I am not saying be and obssessed calorie counter, I am just saying pay attention to calories and portions. 

Cheat meals definitely help me! Except for me, it is more of cheat day. I eat really healthy except for one day a week (which happens to be today). My diet consists of lean protein, fruits, and vegetables. On my cheat days, I usually eat my normal stuff and maybe add in something sweet. It has gotten to a point that I do feel a little guilty on my cheat days so I work extra hard the next day at the gym.


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## quickkiss (Jun 26, 2013)

regular exercise would be a much healthier approach. and that doesn't mean a gym membership either where you have to feel like you died 3 times during your workout. i personally go for walks like the mall, park, local school track, neighboring woods, and my neighborhood. i've maintained and lost weight that way along with eat a good deal of healthy foods like fruit. you just have to find what you like and stick with it because your health is something you work on continually and not just something you do every to lose weight quickly.


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## bluekitdon (Dec 19, 2012)

I don't worry about what I eat, only how much I eat. I think people get too hung up on that honestly. I stay within my calorie range, and am well within the healthy weight range for my height and age. I also exercise on a regular basis. Realizing that I can pretty well eat what I want as long as it is in moderation has been key for me to be able to maintain my weight. 

There are certain things like fries, chips, and mashed potatoes that are just loaded with calories I consciously make an effort not to eat on a regular basis and I try to eat more fruit, veggies, and nuts when given the option, but otherwise I don't feel guilty about an occasional cookie, ice cream, or whatever.

Interesting article.
Twinkie diet helps nutrition professor lose 27 pounds - CNN.com

Great free and easy way to track daily calories.
Free Calorie Counter, Diet & Exercise Journal | MyFitnessPal.com

Another thread about my take on diets. I think if you follow the plan I lay out at the beginning of this thread you should be in good shape.
http://personalitycafe.com/health-fitness/140076-my-rant-about-diets.html


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## Scelerat (Oct 21, 2012)

bluekitdon said:


> http://personalitycafe.com/health-fitness/140076-my-rant-about-diets.html


I read that post and while I do agree with you about making a long term lifestyle change, I do find your program to be overly simplistic. So far I'm down to 220 lbs from 330 lbs, and if it's one thing I've noticed it's that the simple just doesn't always work. I've been in 10 - 30% calorie deficits for months and been in a complete stall despite using calorie calculators and logging every single piece of food I eat and I've been at calorie maintenance and seen consistent drops in weight. 

I've noticed drastic differences based on macronutrient breakdowns, lets say 40% protein, 30% carbs, 30% fat, vs 60% fat, 30% protein, 10% carbs. Based on which types of fats I eat, when I eat during the day, the number of meals I eat per day, whether or not I skip breakfast and so on. 

Lately I've started cycling calories to get past a plateau I hit at 230 lbs, along with increasing resistance training (since I suspect I was starting to lose muscle mass). 

In regards to the Twinkie diet, anyone sitting at 30% or more body fat is going to drop fat really really quickly once they cut calories, however it would be interesting to see if the professor would continue to lose weight once he got down past lets say 25% body fat, as the body tends to become more adamant about keeping the fat at that point. 

It's simply more complicated than calories in vs calories out.


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## bluekitdon (Dec 19, 2012)

Scelerat said:


> I read that post and while I do agree with you about making a long term lifestyle change, I do find your program to be overly simplistic. So far I'm down to 220 lbs from 330 lbs, and if it's one thing I've noticed it's that the simple just doesn't always work. I've been in 10 - 30% calorie deficits for months and been in a complete stall despite using calorie calculators and logging every single piece of food I eat and I've been at calorie maintenance and seen consistent drops in weight.
> 
> I've noticed drastic differences based on macronutrient breakdowns, lets say 40% protein, 30% carbs, 30% fat, vs 60% fat, 30% protein, 10% carbs. Based on which types of fats I eat, when I eat during the day, the number of meals I eat per day, whether or not I skip breakfast and so on.
> 
> ...


Congrats, that is a major achievement. Interesting to hear you say that about meals. I've often observed that heavier people often skip meals, especially breakfast, while people with a healthier weight almost never do. Plateaus are pretty normal, but I'm still convinced that if you eat the number of calories to maintain your final ideal weight and exercise you will eventually get there. Might be faster methods to break through plateaus so that it doesn't take years though as you suggested.


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## Sidoba (Jun 13, 2013)

Scelerat said:


> So far I'm down to 220 lbs from 330 lbs


Great job man!

I definitely agree on it being a life style change.


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## Bricolage (Jul 29, 2012)

Dolorous Haze said:


> I've heard a lot about cheat meals and how they can boost metabolism and motivation. It's hard for me to find a balance when eating healthy and exercising. I either do too much or too little. I'm afraid that a cheat meal might throw me off and make me feel guilty and depressed. Do any of you have cheat meals? How often and how "bad" are they?


One snack won't hurt.


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## Dolorous Haze (Jun 2, 2012)

unctuousbutler said:


> One snack won't hurt.


That's just cruel. :tongue: I'm dying for Chinese food or chocolate at the moment but all I have is things like lettuce and cucumber. Bleeeghhhhhhh.


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## Scelerat (Oct 21, 2012)

bluekitdon said:


> Congrats, that is a major achievement. Interesting to hear you say that about meals. I've often observed that heavier people often skip meals, especially breakfast, while people with a healthier weight almost never do. Plateaus are pretty normal, but I'm still convinced that if you eat the number of calories to maintain your final ideal weight and exercise you will eventually get there. Might be faster methods to break through plateaus so that it doesn't take years though as you suggested.


For a time, it was really effective for me to eat fewer but larger meals since it helped making me feel full, was more efficient from a cooking perspective and allowed me to avoid the blood sugar drops (low carb). 

To draw a parallel to weight-lifting and exercise in general, your body tends to adapt to a certain movement or form of training after a while, and that lessens the calories burned and the effect of the training in general. That's why you always had to add weights or reps to your weight training or additional duration or intensity with cardio. 

So, it would make sense that if you regularly eat 300 calories less than your body needs it would become efficient at using that exact number of calories, thus reducing the amount of fat your have to burn each day. Your body really, really wants to hold on to those fat stores. 

It's also a question of what you eat to a degree, if you eat 6 carbohydrate loaded meals per day, you will have more insulin spikes, blood sugar issues and cravings, as opposed to eating 3 fat and protein loaded meals per day (at the same number of calories). I find that the psychological aspect of sticking with it, cravings, blood sugar drops, dealing with stalls and especially having an emotional relationship with food are the major issues during a diet not the simple "calorie in vs calorie out". 

It does a number on you psychologically if you are constantly hungry, constantly experiencing delayed onset muscle soreness from workouts, resisting cravings and yet you are not losing weight. That's where the problem is, not the simple "in vs out" mechanism.

*Edit* If the calorie in vs calorie out argument holds, then it shouldn't matter if you eat 1 huge meal or 6 small meals, only the total number of calories should matter. However, with arguments such as "6 small meals boost metabolism" people are admitting that there is more to it than "in vs out". I also find that eliminating carbs help me avoid overeating, since it's easier to overeat on rice, potatoes or pasta than it is on bacon, eggs and chicken breasts.


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## Bricolage (Jul 29, 2012)

Dolorous Haze said:


> That's just cruel. :tongue: I'm dying for Chinese food or chocolate at the moment but all I have is things like lettuce and cucumber. Bleeeghhhhhhh.


I know of the chocolate and chai tea latte brain receptors you ladies have. Don't deny it. :kitteh:


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## Emtropy (Feb 3, 2013)

I'm not a huge fan of cheating...if you eat something bad, you eat something bad. No need to justify it as a "cheat" - it was a choice. Maybe a bad choice, but nonetheless. My cheating mindset led me to have a nye-on binge eating disorder. Not saying that would happen to you, but face it, sugar is a drug. Some people can't control their cravings around it. I probably could now, but I haven't had anything sugary in over a month, so my body kinda knows how to regulate it now.

What type of Chinese food do you want? You could be craving carbs or fats. As for chocolate - do you want fat-and-sugar, or do you have a genuine craving for proper, dark chocolate? 

Tell me what you eat when you try to eat healthily. I'm intrigued.


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## Scelerat (Oct 21, 2012)

opeth98 said:


> I'm not a huge fan of cheating...if you eat something bad, you eat something bad. No need to justify it as a "cheat" - it was a choice. Maybe a bad choice, but nonetheless. My cheating mindset led me to have a nye-on binge eating disorder. Not saying that would happen to you, but face it, sugar is a drug. Some people can't control their cravings around it. I probably could now, but I haven't had anything sugary in over a month, so my body kinda knows how to regulate it now.
> 
> What type of Chinese food do you want? You could be craving carbs or fats. As for chocolate - do you want fat-and-sugar, or do you have a genuine craving for proper, dark chocolate?
> 
> Tell me what you eat when you try to eat healthily. I'm intrigued.


There are legitimate reasons for cheating: 

- If you're doing (heavy) weight lifting. 

- If you've been below maintenance and ultra-low carb (leptin and Ghrelin levels may be low) 

- It helps mentally so long as you don't screw it up and binge for days. 

I'm not a huge fan of "cheat days" I prefer a cheat evening, since a day allows you to pack away insane amounts of foods, I've heard of people eating upwards of 8000 chal.


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## Emtropy (Feb 3, 2013)

Scelerat said:


> There are legitimate reasons for cheating:
> 
> - If you're doing (heavy) weight lifting.
> 
> ...


I completely agree with carb re-fuels; I'd just be careful on the type of carbs. Although you personally only do a cheat evening, a single bite of junk food can set some people off for days. I'd say: find your triggers, and avoid them until you've got them sorted. What do you eat on "cheat evenings"?


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## Zombie Devil Duckie (Apr 11, 2012)

I try not to view foods as good or bad, but stay within a calorie range for the day (2,100) and watch my macros (50% Carb, 30% Protein, 20% Fat). For me it seems to work pretty well. Nothing is really off limits, just the amount that I eat and how it fits in with what I eat during the day. I don't "cheat" because I'm not denying myself of any food. Calories are calories and 20% fat is 20% fat.

The part that's been really eye-opening for me is how much sodium was in my diet. I've cut it in half just by making smarter choices. Generally the number I shoot for is a max of 2,500mg per day (a little more if I'm in my shop and sweating a lot).

Edit: I was about to end it here, but I can't without recommending water. Minimum 8 cups per day, every day. 



-ZDD


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## Scelerat (Oct 21, 2012)

opeth98 said:


> I completely agree with carb re-fuels; I'd just be careful on the type of carbs. Although you personally only do a cheat evening, a single bite of junk food can set some people off for days. I'd say: find your triggers, and avoid them until you've got them sorted. What do you eat on "cheat evenings"?


It depends on what I've been craving. I try to stick with "classic" carbs, I.E. potatoes, bread, pasta and rice. I do often have some pastries since that's my weak spot and having some helps mentally. I try to start with a meal high in carbs, low in fat and medium in protein, think stir-fry with rice, homemade burger with fries, meat and potatoes. (Keep in mind that I'm doing a low carb, high fat diet so the definition of "low fat" may differ from normal people.). 

I've also had times where I'd gone 2 - 4 weeks without a refeed and in a deficit, so I indulged in pizza, lasagna, etc. 

I try to avoid chocolate, any bulk sweeteners (high fructose corn syrup) and stick with candy or treats that contain real sugar, I also try to avoid soda, fruit juices (and fructose in general). 

Since I'm at ultra-low carb (under 30g daily), I've noticed that I only seem to gain water weight regardless of how dirty I go on a refeed, I'm 2 - 3kgs heavier the next morning, then in the next 2 - 4 days I drop back to my pre-refeed weight and continue below it most of the time. 

I've been doing this for so long that I've figured out how my body reacts to various things and what I need to avoid. I'm also painfully aware of how easily I can put on weight if I take a week off without watching total calorie intake that I hardly ever have one of those "ooopps I messed up and binged for 3 days" experiences. 

Our bodies are different, we have different levels of willpower, cravings, react to various foodstuffs differently, so every person has to experiment with what works for them. You have people who are carboholics who cannot give up carbs, and you have people like me who function best with only above ground vegetables, and eating a cow and a half every week.


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## Dolorous Haze (Jun 2, 2012)

opeth98 said:


> What type of Chinese food do you want? You could be craving carbs or fats. As for chocolate - do you want fat-and-sugar, or do you have a genuine craving for proper, dark chocolate?
> 
> Tell me what you eat when you try to eat healthily. I'm intrigued.


The ridiculously fatty and "How could you not have a heart attack from eating that much salt?" kind. The same goes for chocolate, but replace salt with sugar and heart attack with diabetes. lol

Em, well today I had branflakes with a tiny amount of lowfat milk, two mandarins, one slice of brown toast, tuna, half a fillet of chicken with lettuce, red and yellow pepper, onion, and an apple. I've never really drank any drinks apart from water and milk, so drinking healthier wasn't difficult. I've had around 7-8 glasses of water today. I also walked pretty quickly for 5k. (Next week I'm hoping to start jogging instead of running).

Edit: I forgot to mention that I also had a (small) potato with my chicken. But since I'm Irish, that's pretty much a give in. :tongue:


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## Scelerat (Oct 21, 2012)

Dolorous Haze said:


> The ridiculously fatty and "How could you not have a heart attack from eating that much salt?" kind. The same goes for chocolate, but replace salt with sugar and heart attack with diabetes. lol
> 
> Em, well today I had branflakes with a tiny amount of lowfat milk, two mandarins, one slice of brown toast, tuna, half a fillet of chicken with lettuce, red and yellow pepper, onion, and an apple. I've never really drank any drinks apart from water and milk, so drinking healthier wasn't difficult. I've had around 7-8 glasses of water today. I also walked pretty quickly for 5k. (Next week I'm hoping to start jogging instead of running).
> 
> Edit: I forgot to mention that I also had a (small) potato with my chicken. But since I'm Irish, that's pretty much a give in. :tongue:


Between the branflakes, mandarins, potato, onion, and apple, I think you're covered for carbs.


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## Dolorous Haze (Jun 2, 2012)

Scelerat said:


> Between the branflakes, mandarins, potato, onion, and apple, I think you're covered for carbs.


Do you think I should eat less or is that the right amount? Yesterday I ate much less but I was feeling very fatigued and dizzy, so I figured I should eat a bit more. It's next to impossible to get it right.


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## Emtropy (Feb 3, 2013)

Scelerat said:


> It depends on what I've been craving. I try to stick with "classic" carbs, I.E. potatoes, bread, pasta and rice. I do often have some pastries since that's my weak spot and having some helps mentally. I try to start with a meal high in carbs, low in fat and medium in protein, think stir-fry with rice, homemade burger with fries, meat and potatoes. (Keep in mind that I'm doing a low carb, high fat diet so the definition of "low fat" may differ from normal people.).
> 
> I've also had times where I'd gone 2 - 4 weeks without a refeed and in a deficit, so I indulged in pizza, lasagna, etc.
> 
> ...


You eating paleo? Sounds like it. I eat sort of paleo - and, like you, I eat meat, fat, and vegetables. I'm not as low-carb as you, though: I don't count, but I'd say I'm about 40-60g per day - carbs coming from sweet potatoes (2x per week), carrots, and fruits. 

I don't tend to eat gluten-containing foods apart from on the rare occasion, as I have a mild allergy to it. I often eat dark chocolate as a 2-3x weekly treat, and milk and white on occasion. As for the days where i fancy some carbohydrates, I generally have chicken, mashed potato, and rice. I may have an ice cream once per month - the quality stuff :kitteh: juice and soda just taste wrong now, so I don't drink them anymore. And HFCS isn't worth it. 

It's hard for me to notice what my body does after a carb-heavy-day, being a fifteen-year-old girl and all: I just know I generally have more energy for that day. I couldn't eat 200g+ carbs all the time, though; I put on weight too easily. 

Generally, though, what keeps me happy is a diet rich in meats, good fats, fruit, veg, and some dairy. Oh, and coffee and dark chocolate. Like you said, though, everything is different. And giving up pasta ain't that hard


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## Emtropy (Feb 3, 2013)

Dolorous Haze said:


> The ridiculously fatty and "How could you not have a heart attack from eating that much salt?" kind. The same goes for chocolate, but replace salt with sugar and heart attack with diabetes. lol
> 
> Em, well today I had branflakes with a tiny amount of lowfat milk, two mandarins, one slice of brown toast, tuna, half a fillet of chicken with lettuce, red and yellow pepper, onion, and an apple. I've never really drank any drinks apart from water and milk, so drinking healthier wasn't difficult. I've had around 7-8 glasses of water today. I also walked pretty quickly for 5k. (Next week I'm hoping to start jogging instead of running).
> 
> Edit: I forgot to mention that I also had a (small) potato with my chicken. But since I'm Irish, that's pretty much a give in. :tongue:


Ah, the best kind of Chinese meals. ;D

Hmm...to me, it sounds like you're not eating enough generally. I recommend upping your fat-and-protein intake; see how it works for you. Many people do well on high-fat, once they get over carb flu. Since you're Irish (woo!) support your fellow farmers and buy Kerrygold grassfed butter!  however, high-fat isn't for everyone, in which case you could up your carb and protein intake.

If you're thinking about going high-fat, think for meals: bacon and eggs, full-fat yoghurt with fruit, chicken with skin and veggies, steak in coconut oil or butter, and fatty fish such as salmon. 

If not, then higher carb and protein could work. make sure they're clean carbs, though: fruit, potatoes (woo!) yams, rice; leaner meats and veggies. If I were you, I wouldn't eat bread or wheat; it's basically junk. Goes without saying that sugar and vegetable oils are, too.

Wheat Belly Blog | Lose the Wheat Lose the Weight
11 Ways Gluten And Wheat Can Damage Your Health | Paleo Diet Lifestyle

Once you come off the harmful foods, your body *should* be able to regulate its appetite - in which case, you eat as much nourishing food as your body needs. And please, don't punish yourself with food! If your mood ever feels low, or you have low energy etc, you're probably not eating enough. Feeling like this isn't sustainable. Eat plenty of good, whole foods


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## Scelerat (Oct 21, 2012)

opeth98 said:


> You eating paleo? Sounds like it. I eat sort of paleo - and, like you, I eat meat, fat, and vegetables. I'm not as low-carb as you, though: I don't count, but I'd say I'm about 40-60g per day - carbs coming from sweet potatoes (2x per week), carrots, and fruits.
> 
> I don't tend to eat gluten-containing foods apart from on the rare occasion, as I have a mild allergy to it. I often eat dark chocolate as a 2-3x weekly treat, and milk and white on occasion. As for the days where i fancy some carbohydrates, I generally have chicken, mashed potato, and rice. I may have an ice cream once per month - the quality stuff :kitteh: juice and soda just taste wrong now, so I don't drink them anymore. And HFCS isn't worth it.
> 
> ...


No, I'm not doing paleo but fairly close. I used to have much more dairy, including butter (cut for the past 10 days due to stall), and I do use quite a few "modern" conveniences. My focus is on real foods and avoiding processed foods as much as possible. My lunch generally contains the most processed foods I eat, and is usually some form of sausage combined with a mayo based salad of some sort. 

I don't eat dark chocolate or any kind of sweets outside of refeeds. I do on occasion eat homemade nut-butters, make low-carb cakes or other treats. 

I notice the difference in the weight room mostly, as the weights I may have struggled with prior to carbing up almost take off flying sometimes. I can also notice a growth of about 1 - 1.5 inches in arm circumference, about 2 inches in the thighs, about an inch in my calves, 1 - 3 inches around my chest and 2 - 4 inches around my waist. This is mostly from the body retaining 3 - 4g of water per gram of sugar, in addition to the body cramming up to 50% more glycogen into the muscles anticipating another carb drought. 


I have a lot of coffee and add a tablespoon or two of coconut oil to it on maintenance calorie days as I find it hard to eat enough to reach my calorie maintenance without carbs. Of course a major difference here is going to be in me being a 6.1 man, with roughly 175 lean mass, which I assume is a bit more than you. 




Dolorous Haze said:


> Do you think I should eat less or is that the right amount? Yesterday I ate much less but I was feeling very fatigued and dizzy, so I figured I should eat a bit more. It's next to impossible to get it right.


I have no idea. If you do go low-carb you will have some dizziness, and fatigue until your body gets proficient at burning fat for fuel and utilizing ketones.


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## Emtropy (Feb 3, 2013)

Scelerat said:


> No, I'm not doing paleo but fairly close. I used to have much more dairy, including butter (cut for the past 10 days due to stall), and I do use quite a few "modern" conveniences. My focus is on real foods and avoiding processed foods as much as possible. My lunch generally contains the most processed foods I eat, and is usually some form of sausage combined with a mayo based salad of some sort.
> 
> I don't eat dark chocolate or any kind of sweets outside of refeeds. I do on occasion eat homemade nut-butters, make low-carb cakes or other treats.
> 
> ...


What you eat is basically paleo - though it doesn't have to be, if you don't want to identify with labels . Many people on the paleo message boards eat like you. It's moved away from "eat what your ancestors did" to "eat whole, natural foods to your needs". I remember when it was all "meat and fat is all you need, you don't need veg you pussy". I prefer the current view  people also accept sausage as paleo - as long as it doesn't contain any dodgy ingredients, it's in. I had gluten-free sausages for my dinner tonight~

I also usually go to the gym the day after my re-feeds, and I notice I can lift heavier, too. But, like I said, being a teenage girl, it's hard for me to judge the slight differences in my body after these days.

I'm yet to try coconut oil in coffee: hear it's delicious, though. I don't actually know my calorie needs. I've just been told to eat good foods until I'm satisfied, at my age. An estimation of what I've eaten today totals to around 2050 calories. I've been to the gym today, though, and I wouldn't have gotten my calories that high if I didn't eat any dark chocolate.


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## Scelerat (Oct 21, 2012)

opeth98 said:


> What you eat is basically paleo - though it doesn't have to be, if you don't want to identify with labels . Many people on the paleo message boards eat like you. It's moved away from "eat what your ancestors did" to "eat whole, natural foods to your needs". I remember when it was all "meat and fat is all you need, you don't need veg you pussy". I prefer the current view  people also accept sausage as paleo - as long as it doesn't contain any dodgy ingredients, it's in. I had gluten-free sausages for my dinner tonight~
> 
> I also usually go to the gym the day after my re-feeds, and I notice I can lift heavier, too. But, like I said, being a teenage girl, it's hard for me to judge the slight differences in my body after these days.
> 
> I'm yet to try coconut oil in coffee: hear it's delicious, though. I don't actually know my calorie needs. I've just been told to eat good foods until I'm satisfied, at my age. An estimation of what I've eaten today totals to around 2050 calories. I've been to the gym today, though, and I wouldn't have gotten my calories that high if I didn't eat any dark chocolate.


As a teenager you're still growing so changes could be down to diet, exercise or just tons of hormones. I wish I'd lifted weight as religiously as a teenager as I do now since the extra hormones are a godsend. Now I have to do all kinds of crazy stuff to try and manipulate my hormones to do what I want them to, which is a lot more complex than squats and milk. 

I don't care much about calories unless I'm trying to drop weight and since I still want to drop about 15 - 20lbs or so, I'll stick with eating well below maintenance. I'm at 2100 today according to Fitday, 166g of fat, 22g of carbs and 120g of protein. The protein is a bit low though but it's hard to get it much higher without getting a bunch of additional fat. I just couldn't stand the idea of chicken breasts for the 3rd day in a row. 

I did Stronglifts 5x5 workout B (Squats, Overhead Press and Deadlift) and did an hour of walking primarily in zones 2 and 3 according to my heart rate monitor.


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## Emtropy (Feb 3, 2013)

Scelerat said:


> As a teenager you're still growing so changes could be down to diet, exercise or just tons of hormones. I wish I'd lifted weight as religiously as a teenager as I do now since the extra hormones are a godsend. Now I have to do all kinds of crazy stuff to try and manipulate my hormones to do what I want them to, which is a lot more complex than squats and milk.
> 
> I don't care much about calories unless I'm trying to drop weight and since I still want to drop about 15 - 20lbs or so, I'll stick with eating well below maintenance. I'm at 2100 today according to Fitday, 166g of fat, 22g of carbs and 120g of protein. The protein is a bit low though but it's hard to get it much higher without getting a bunch of additional fat. I just couldn't stand the idea of chicken breasts for the 3rd day in a row.
> 
> I did Stronglifts 5x5 workout B (Squats, Overhead Press and Deadlift) and did an hour of walking primarily in zones 2 and 3 according to my heart rate monitor.


My potential further growth and whizzing hormones are why I've been told not to cut calories too much. And also why I've advised to lift! But I was planning on doing so anyway: It's fun, and it makes you feel awesome. 

I feel your pain on the chicken breasts part. Have you tried using different spices etc? Or is it just the overall nature of the chicken breast?  

I don't really have a gym plan - I just squat and deadlift, really. Along with some shoulder presses and bicep/tricep work. I'll take a look at that Stronglifts thing.


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## Scelerat (Oct 21, 2012)

opeth98 said:


> My potential further growth and whizzing hormones are why I've been told not to cut calories too much. And also why I've advised to lift! But I was planning on doing so anyway: It's fun, and it makes you feel awesome.
> 
> I feel your pain on the chicken breasts part. Have you tried using different spices etc? Or is it just the overall nature of the chicken breast?


I cook them in a variety of ways, I'm just not a huge fan of fish and poultry, I prefer beef and pork. Alas, I need to cut and I need my protein, so in order to stay within reasonable calorie ranges, and getting enough protein I need to eat various lean proteins and due to whey being easily absorbed nutrition it can spike insulin just like sugars, and the same goes for BCAA so I'm currently training supplement free. I can't even have freaking creatine. 



> I don't really have a gym plan - I just squat and deadlift, really. Along with some shoulder presses and bicep/tricep work. I'll take a look at that Stronglifts thing.


The stronglifts plan is perfect for beginners since it's really hard to mess it up. I'm doing it because I busted my shoulder about 7 months ago when my mind insisted on that last rep and my shoulder vehemently disagreed resulting in not being able to lift for 6 months. My body tends to gain strength and muscle mass fairly quickly, which means my lifts go up quickly, so the tendons etc aren't able to keep up.


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## Emtropy (Feb 3, 2013)

Scelerat said:


> I cook them in a variety of ways, I'm just not a huge fan of fish and poultry, I prefer beef and pork. Alas, I need to cut and I need my protein, so in order to stay within reasonable calorie ranges, and getting enough protein I need to eat various lean proteins and due to whey being easily absorbed nutrition it can spike insulin just like sugars, and the same goes for BCAA so I'm currently training supplement free. I can't even have freaking creatine.
> 
> The stronglifts plan is perfect for beginners since it's really hard to mess it up. I'm doing it because I busted my shoulder about 7 months ago when my mind insisted on that last rep and my shoulder vehemently disagreed resulting in not being able to lift for 6 months. My body tends to gain strength and muscle mass fairly quickly, which means my lifts go up quickly, so the tendons etc aren't able to keep up.


I think that's the case for most people, haha. I'm yet to meet anyone who'll choose dry chicken breast over pork belly. Alas, one must do what one must do. Still, good on you for going supplement free.

Sounds good. I'm a proper gym noob, so I'll definitely need it. And ah man, sorry to hear about your injury! 

But yeah, I definitely need some sort of structure, otherwise I don't know what weight to use, how many reps I should do, how many times I should go to the gym per week, etc.


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## Scelerat (Oct 21, 2012)

opeth98 said:


> I think that's the case for most people, haha. I'm yet to meet anyone who'll choose dry chicken breast over pork belly. Alas, one must do what one must do. Still, good on you for going supplement free.
> 
> Sounds good. I'm a proper gym noob, so I'll definitely need it. And ah man, sorry to hear about your injury!
> 
> But yeah, I definitely need some sort of structure, otherwise I don't know what weight to use, how many reps I should do, how many times I should go to the gym per week, etc.


SL 5x5 is easy like that. If you're a newbie, start with the bar only on squats, bench presses, overhead presses, start with 65 lbs (I think) on the deadlift (including bar) and 45 lbs on the bent over row (including bar). Do the workout 3 times per week, doing workout A (Squats, Bench, Row) and Workout B (Squats, overhead press, deadlift) alternating times. So if you go Monday, Wednesday and Friday, you do A - B - A and just keep alternating for 12 weeks. Add 5 lbs on the Bench, overhead, squat and row, add 10 lbs per week on the deadlift. 

You can download the program for free at stronglifts.com


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## Emtropy (Feb 3, 2013)

Scelerat said:


> SL 5x5 is easy like that. If you're a newbie, start with the bar only on squats, bench presses, overhead presses, start with 65 lbs (I think) on the deadlift (including bar) and 45 lbs on the bent over row (including bar). Do the workout 3 times per week, doing workout A (Squats, Bench, Row) and Workout B (Squats, overhead press, deadlift) alternating times. So if you go Monday, Wednesday and Friday, you do A - B - A and just keep alternating for 12 weeks. Add 5 lbs on the Bench, overhead, squat and row, add 10 lbs per week on the deadlift.
> 
> You can download the program for free at stronglifts.com


Thanks! At last, I have structure.


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## PowerShell (Feb 3, 2013)

If you're "cheating" you're probably dieting wrong. In order to lose weight and make long term maintenance of the lower weight you pretty much have to change your whole diet permanently. I think the whole non-processed foods is the way to go. The thing is for convenience sake, it's hard to do. If you do go the calorie restriction route, I heard 10 calories for every pound of your desired weight will eventually get you to that point. Basically if your goal is 140 pounds, eat 1400 calories per day.


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## Bricolage (Jul 29, 2012)

PowerShell said:


> If you're "cheating" you're probably dieting wrong. In order to lose weight and make long term maintenance of the lower weight you pretty much have to change your whole diet permanently. I think the whole non-processed foods is the way to go. The thing is for convenience sake, it's hard to do. If you do go the calorie restriction route, I heard 10 calories for every pound of your desired weight will eventually get you to that point. Basically if your goal is 140 pounds, eat 1400 calories per day.


That's a clever rule of thumb, but imagine a 140-pound guy who happened to be around seven feet tall.

To the larger point, you really need a balance of fats, carbs and proteins. You will actually die without adequate fats and proteins; you can survive without carbs. Without carbs you just go into ketosis. 

But yeah, fats and proteins help to stabilize blood sugar, which lessens cravings. I would involve things like eggs, yogurt, green vegetables and some dairy into your diet. Maybe chicken, in moderation, as well.

You want to avoid bad saturated fats - fried foods, greasy potato chips and that kind of thing. Olive oil and avocado oil are good oils to cook with. @Dolorous Haze


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## Diogenes (Jun 30, 2011)

If you're in a diet because you want to lose large amounts of weight or because of some goal in terms of bodybuilding, by all means go for cheat meals or chances are you'll go crazy or you'll stop dieting. Keep in mind though that cheat meal doesn't mean a double cheeseburger, it means something which is tastier, more satisfying and more caloric than what you usually eat but still healthy and balanced.
If you're losing a few kg or simply maintaining your weight, I'd say avoid them, you don't actually need them and they are bad for your willpower.



Scelerat said:


> So far I'm down to 220 lbs from 330 lbs


Nice job.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

It depends on your diet and what you're cheating with. My mother swears by this tactic (it keeps you from feeling deprived, it resembles the feast days of more primitive cultures, and supposedly also boosts your metabolism).

But if you're a vegetarian and "cheat" by eating a steak, I don't think that's a good idea. Nor do I think it's a great idea to cheat with things that are nasty, like high fructose corn syrup.

I would think that depending on what your diet was, you could have one day a week where you'd allow yourself "treats" like pizza, cake, or whatever.

I would just pick "quality" items on cheat days, like make it really count, eat cake or ice cream that has real sugar instead of HFCS, or eat your absolutely favorite fatty or high-sugar foods, so it really feels like a treat, and not a waste of a cheat day.

People who are telling you to watch calories on your cheat day are missing the point entirely, ignore their Nazi ways.


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## Cher Zee (Feb 15, 2012)

I listen to my body, it tells me what it needs. If I crave chocolate, I'll eat it and then craving will go away. But I also get weird cravings for things like spinach.

It's moderation, I don't do an all or nothing approach. You just feel deprived or more likely to binge later on bad foods (which in turn makes you feel guilty.)


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## PowerShell (Feb 3, 2013)

unctuousbutler said:


> That's a clever rule of thumb, but imagine a 140-pound guy who happened to be around seven feet tall.


If you're 7 feet tall and only 140 pounds, you have other issues.


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## Bricolage (Jul 29, 2012)

PowerShell said:


> If you're 7 feet tall and only 140 pounds, you have other issues.


Such as being born in Ethiopia?


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## PowerShell (Feb 3, 2013)

unctuousbutler said:


> Such as being born in Ethiopia?


I guess if that means you're malnourished and starving, then yes. 7 foot and 140 pounds is very underweight.


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## Bricolage (Jul 29, 2012)

PowerShell said:


> I guess if that means you're malnourished and starving, then yes. 7 foot and 140 pounds is very underweight.


Yep, that's why I made the point.


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## Dolorous Haze (Jun 2, 2012)

I had my "cheat meal" and as predicted, I felt like crap afterwards. lol I think next week it'll be reduced to a "cheat snack". :tongue: I didn't even have any cravings, I think I was eating to satisfy cravings that had already disappeared. In future I'll just have a small snack if my cravings get really bad, rather than wait for a disgusting meal.


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## Bricolage (Jul 29, 2012)

Dolorous Haze said:


> I had my "cheat meal" and as predicted, I felt like crap afterwards. lol I think next week it'll be reduced to a "cheat snack". :tongue: I didn't even have any cravings, I think I was eating to satisfy cravings that had already disappeared. In future I'll just have a small snack if my cravings get really bad, rather than wait for a disgusting meal.


What did you have?


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