# The continuing adventures of me and my INTJ-related troubles



## agokcen (Jan 3, 2010)

Alright, kids. I feel kind of weird posting a (formerly now, isn't it?) private conversation, but whatever. For those of you who are unaware of my troubles with a certain INTJ in my life, I can summarize. Long story short, I've had a thing for this guy for months and months, but the problem is that he's basically asexual. Philosophy and politics are his first loves. Tired of waiting, I did the bravest thing I could bring my little chicken-y self to do: I gave him a love note. (Oh, shush. It took me a while to even get to that point, so don't hate.) After little bit, he finally took an even more chicken-y route than I did (if that's even possible) and started an online chat with me in response.

Check it out:


*INTJ*
hey
do you think a piece of paper or a fb chat would be less awkward?

*Me*
Hmmm.
I think awkwardness is unavoidable.
Since we’re here, say what you must.

*INTJ*
....
first I felt rather insulted by the letter, or maybe you just think your friends keep secrets better than they really do
idk

*Me*
I thought as much.
You see, I kept saying, "Are you CERTAIN he's unaware?!" and they insisted. Aye...

*INTJ*
funny

*Me*
Not really. Ugh.

*Me*
Soooo...

*INTJ*
sorry, I'm minimizing the awkwardness by doing other things, anyway i don't exactly remember what you wrote and don't exactly know what you said but, uh, i don't know what to say.. couldn't senior year have just ended peacefully...i guess we all need some time in high school where we feel embarrassed and i guess this may be mine (at least for as long as this convo goes)
anyway...

*Me*
Out with it, already. Awkwardness is minimized by getting it over with.

*INTJ*
*(note: conditional statement and subject to change) I really don't have enough time or energy to do any sort of quote unquote relationship right now, and I really don't want one, either, but I am not really against whatever you said--coffee or lunch or whatever sometime
that's probably the easiest simplest way to put it

*Me*
Hummm.
Naturally this leaves me wanting to further interpret the implications.

*INTJ*
sure... well I really need to get going on hw so...

*INTJ*
though i think i'd rather not drag on awkwardness for longer time than necessary...
...
..

*Me*
Understandable.
I'd like a simple-ish answer, though. The fact of whether or not you want a relationship right now aside, how am I to interpret your apparent lack of opposition to some sort of outing?
That is to say, would it be out of some sort of interest or just sympathy? There's no need to spare my feelings.

*INTJ*
(sigh) idk (notice the emphasis by how long it took me to type this) ....I honestly don't think about any sort of relationship anything---it's not at all on my radar. I really don't think about these things. Call me immature or whathaveyou, but I don't think about this stuff. It wouldn't be out of sypathy but it wouldn't be out of like "liking" either.
call it "enjoyment of company" or something like that
idk.....

*INTJ*
in other words i have no idea what i think
you have to understand i don't do this sort of thing everyday

*Me*
I certainly understand, and I'm not going to criticize your lifestyle, or whatever you want to call it. What you do is up to you.

*INTJ*
thank you, and likewise

*Me*
Well, I won't keep you from your work any longer, but I admit that the ambiguity of your answers continues to baffle me. I suppose your "mystique" is part of your charm, but it's confusing nonetheless. If someday soon you have a clearer message for me, don't hesitate to let me know.

*INTJ*
i'd feel so terrible if i were any more ambiguous than reality, but i feel like i answered honestly to the best of my ability
goodnight


:dry: Seriously? What the heck, dude...

I'm tempted to interpret this all as a general lack of interest, but then I remember that this is no normal guy I'm dealing with. Whatcha think, honestly? Note that he's not lying when he says dating isn't on his radar. It's a well-known fact. I feel like he's just being nice on the one hand, but on the other hand I told him not to spare my feelings, and yet he still continues to be all ambiguous. Plus, this:


*INTJ*
*(note: conditional statement and subject to change) I really don't have enough time or energy to do any sort of quote unquote relationship right now, and I really don't want one, either, but I am not really against whatever you said--coffee or lunch or whatever sometime
that's probably the easiest simplest way to put it


I don't even know. "Conditional statement?" HAVE AN OPINION, DAMMIT!

I think I just need to start going for extroverted feelers and make my life less annoying...


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## wealldie (Jan 24, 2010)

My filter strongly suggests that he's not interested at all for whatever reason he's not telling you. But, I don't know, he's also more vague than I'd ever be in such a conversation.


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## Solace (Jan 12, 2010)

I don't really know what it is you're looking for ... but as an INTJ, and someone who has been the cause of girls bawling their eyes out because I was approached in a _very_ awkward manner, I'd like to weigh in.

First, do not approach INTJs in an awkward manner. Direct and to the point is how I think it is preferred. Especially if you're a stranger.

Second, INTJs are prone to egregious amounts of jackass-behavior when caught off-guard. This situation probably didn't warrant it and the guy is just kind of ... more directed in his interests.

However, from what he said at the end it seems like he really just wasn't sure what to make of _your_ emotions. Either he was completely unclear on it, or simply has a set of expectations for the next several years of his life that you (or any other girl) just didn't fit in to. I don't think it's fair to call him "asexual" because he doesn't want a relationship. What he likely wants is to wait until he can have a real relationship and actually be able to take care of someone else/himself and be financially independent/older/wiser/whatever.

At the very end, however, it seems like he kind of woke up and was like "whoa, wait, this is a *girl* that is kinda into me. Hm." So he wants to keep his options open. _Big deal._

*This kid has plans to go somewhere. He has goals.*

Check back with him in 5 years and maybe you two will be married. But don't take it out on him (or yourself0 if you two simply haven't gotten to a point where either of you are able to express oneself fully to the other (likely more a problem for him).


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## MNiS (Jan 30, 2010)

More than anything, it sounds like he's embarrassed you have a crush on him and he had to hear about it from one of your friends? It sounds like maybe he's shy and didn't like the he-she said approach? Either way, it sounds like he didn't like the indirect approach. On the plus side, he said he's not _against_ having coffee or lunch with you, so maybe you should just enjoy his friendship and company and let the chips fall where they may.


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## Robatix (Mar 26, 2009)

Yeah, I don't think he's ruling out the possibility of a relationship, or at least an approximation of one, but reaching that point with him may require "warming up," which in and of itself could be something of a long haul.


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## Robatix (Mar 26, 2009)

Another thought that might be of use since I've seen ENFPs and INTJs described as being "inside out" versions of one another: when a person presents me with a possibility or opportunity that I hadn't previously considered, or that I historically had denied myself permission to investigate, I sometimes refuse or retreat from the offer initially, only to return shortly after, enthusiastic and eager to accept. Your next few interactions with him could be very telling of his actual intent.



agokcen said:


> I think I just need to start going for extroverted feelers and make my life less annoying...


Take a ride on the mushy side. :wink:


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## Rouge (Sep 6, 2009)

Several possibilities:

(1) He doesn't feel strongly about you but he likes you enough to hang out
(2) He doesn't know what he feels about you but he likes you enough to hang out
(3) He likes you but he's frightened of potential mushiness (both on his and your side)

When I was a teenager and an INTJ, I was frightened every time I found out someone had a crush on me (though it didn't happen all that much). I wasn't emotional. I didn't feel strongly about people. I was also grossed off by some of the mushy stuff people did when they were in luuuurve. I didn't understand feelings and I wasn't comfortable with them. 

Whenever a guy told me he liked me, my first instinct was to run. I was stressed about the expectations the person could have of me. It's a constant stream of such thoughs: Am I expected to feel strongly about this person? Because I don't, I generally don't feel strongly about people. Do I have to do the mushy stuff with him? Eeeeew... I hope he won't go there. I hope he won't expect me to go there. I will sooo die if I have to be romantic to him and say all the "I love you". I will sooo die if I get teased by those bunch of idiots for this.

I don't know whether your INTJ friend is feeling the same way, agokcen. He handled the talk you two had badly for sure. But I don't see it as a "no" from him. When I was an INTJ, you couldn't force me to spend time with people I didn't like or felt uncomfortable with. Even as an INFJ now, I am the same.

MisterNi said it best- relax, enjoy him and let the chips fall into place. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you


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## Thorgar (Apr 3, 2010)

Hmmm...I used to treat girls like that, but not because I was INTJ or asexual. It was because I was a closet case.


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## agokcen (Jan 3, 2010)

Spades said:


> I don't really know what it is you're looking for ... but as an INTJ, and someone who has been the cause of girls bawling their eyes out because I was approached in a _very_ awkward manner, I'd like to weigh in.
> 
> First, do not approach INTJs in an awkward manner. Direct and to the point is how I think it is preferred. Especially if you're a stranger.
> 
> ...


*sigh* Avoiding awkwardness is the reason I waited so long to talk to him about it in the first place. A note was the _least_ awkward way I could possibly think of to tell him. Also, I'm really not blaming him for anything, but it's just plain frustrating to get such an ambiguous answer. Saying "I don't know" a million times doesn't really help anyone, you know?



MisterNi said:


> More than anything, it sounds like he's embarrassed you have a crush on him and he had to hear about it from one of your friends? It sounds like maybe he's shy and didn't like the he-she said approach? Either way, it sounds like he didn't like the indirect approach. On the plus side, he said he's not _against_ having coffee or lunch with you, so maybe you should just enjoy his friendship and company and let the chips fall where they may.


Honestly, I didn't _try_ to use the he-said-she-said approach, but unfortunately it still happened, apparently. Stupid "friends." You think I should still hang out with him sometime, then?



Robatix said:


> Another thought that might be of use since I've seen ENFPs and INTJs described as being "inside out" versions of one another: when a person presents me with a possibility or opportunity that I hadn't previously considered, or that I historically had denied myself permission to investigate, I sometimes refuse or retreat from the offer initially, only to return shortly after, enthusiastic and eager to accept. Your next few interactions with him could be very telling of his actual intent.


That's actually excellent advice. One of my friends is dating his brother (the two are very similar) and gave me advice not unlike yours.



> Take a ride on the mushy side. :wink:


Am I to take this as a "yes" to my marriage proposal? roud:



Rouge said:


> Several possibilities:
> 
> (1) He doesn't feel strongly about you but he likes you enough to hang out
> (2) He doesn't know what he feels about you but he likes you enough to hang out
> ...


Thank you for this! Are you, too, saying that I should go ahead and hang out with him sometime?

I suppose, if I'm able to get some one-on-one time with him, I am pretty irresistible...:wink:



Thorgar said:


> Hmmm...I used to treat girls like that, but not because I was INTJ or asexual. It was because I was a closet case.


Actually, this is a possibility that I can't rule out. :crazy:


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## RiverINXP (Apr 20, 2010)

Thorgar said:


> Hmmm...I used to treat girls like that, but not because I was INTJ or asexual. It was because I was a closet case.


I had the exact same thought. I guess there might be other reasons why he doesn't date, but I'd be willing to bet $20 he's just not into women. 

Whatever his reasons, I have to be honest and say that I think he made it pretty clear that he's not interested. If he changes his mind then I'm sure he'll let you know.


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## YourMom (Mar 13, 2010)

I'm giving you the same advice I give everyone who gets stuck on a single person that is not going to pan out. Move on, find someone else you like. This guy seems like a loser if he doesn't have the balls to talk to you in person.

And you're still in highschool?? Gawt damn. I thought you were in your 20's judging by the maturity of your posts.


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## Rouge (Sep 6, 2009)

agokcen said:


> Thank you for this! Are you, too, saying that I should go ahead and hang out with him sometime?


YES. He's giving a potential relationship with you a chance. You should too.

Perhaps his answer didn't give you the emotional assurance you sought. But a lot of T types aren't good with this. When it comes to relatioships with them, forget about the lovey-dovey stuff. If an INTJ spends time with you, you can be sure he has positive feelings towards you.


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## Rouge (Sep 6, 2009)

middeljohn said:


> And you're still in highschool?? Gawt damn. I thought you were in your 20's judging by the maturity of your posts.


See, I'm not the only one who thinks that agokcen is mature *self satisfied grin*


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## Vaka (Feb 26, 2010)

Rouge said:


> See, I'm not the only one who thinks that agokcen is mature *self satisfied grin*


Yeah I thought she was in her 20's until pretty recently lmao
Like I've said before, I was ashamed when I realized she was only about a year older than me because I'm really not that mature -_-


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## TurranMC (Sep 15, 2009)

I only read the first post.


It seemed very clear to me that he's not interested in a relationship so there is no point in continuing to pursue him. The point of the conditional statement was to say that he currently does not have enough time for a relationship, but he might later. Regardless it seemed very clear to me that pursuing him is wasted effort.


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## agokcen (Jan 3, 2010)

middeljohn said:


> I'm giving you the same advice I give everyone who gets stuck on a single person that is not going to pan out. Move on, find someone else you like. This guy seems like a loser if he doesn't have the balls to talk to you in person.


Normally I'd agree, but it's not that easy. This is the smartest, most generally perfect guy I have ever met, ever. Ever, ever, ever. (And yes, I do like extreme nerds - genius, socially awkward, etc.) He's heading off to Harvard or Princeton next year...for real.

Guys like this don't come along every day...:sad:



> And you're still in highschool?? Gawt damn. I thought you were in your 20's judging by the maturity of your posts.


Alas, the truth had to come out eventually. Try as I might to downplay it, yes, I am a senior in high school.

Just call me the Grey of ENTPs, I guess.



Rouge said:


> YES. He's giving a potential relationship with you a chance. You should too.
> 
> Perhaps his answer didn't give you the emotional assurance you sought. But a lot of T types aren't good with this. When it comes to relatioships with them, forget about the lovey-dovey stuff. If an INTJ spends time with you, you can be sure he has positive feelings towards you.


I like your advice the best! :laughing: Maybe it's confirmation bias, but I trust you.



Rouge said:


> See, I'm not the only one who thinks that agokcen is mature *self satisfied grin*


Awww. Yeah, yeah...:blushed:



Queen of Leaves said:


> Yeah I thought she was in her 20's until pretty recently lmao
> Like I've said before, I was ashamed when I realized she was only about a year older than me because I'm really not that mature -_-


I'll be legal in less than two months....Round up and I'm an adult. Heck, I've been an adult since I was about five. Hence part of the reason I tend to doubt my ENTP-ness; as a general rule, we're not usually the mature-beyond-our-years type. :dry:



TurranMC said:


> I only read the first post.
> 
> 
> It seemed very clear to me that he's not interested in a relationship so there is no point in continuing to pursue him. The point of the conditional statement was to say that he currently does not have enough time for a relationship, but he might later. Regardless it seemed very clear to me that pursuing him is wasted effort.


These responses are just as back-and-forth as his response! :crying:


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## Quin Sabe (Jan 26, 2010)

I didn't read all the reply's but that sounds like I would say.
In my case, in my opinion, he wants to hang out but doesn't see any immediate spark or relationship potential but he doesn't want to close the door either. I'm pretty sure he isn't doing it out of sympathy.
He wants to take his time, I'm not sure how much time you've spent together, if it isn't much then odds are you can still change his mind. My advice go hang out, coffee, lunch whatever, give it a little time and put off the analysis of the relationship a little. He certainly wants to collect more data before making a decision give it to him. If he's unsure, it'll be major brownie points. 

Just out of curiosity has he had many relationships? (the less the more valid my opinion is)


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## agokcen (Jan 3, 2010)

Quin Sabe said:


> Just out of curiosity has he had many relationships? (the less the more valid my opinion is)


None. Ever. Nothing even _resembling_ one.

He's just not into that sort of thing - school is his focus, 100%.


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## Quin Sabe (Jan 26, 2010)

agokcen said:


> None. Ever. Nothing even _resembling_ one.
> 
> He's just not into that sort of thing - school is his focus, 100%.


Ok, then I can help, since I've never had one either.

Hang out with him, he just doesn't know if he wants to pull the trigger on a relationship but I'm almost positive he wouldn't mind if it just happens. Unless he comes straight out and says no, without leaving any possibilities or any loop holes, I'd go for it. His ambiguity is honest.


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## Rouge (Sep 6, 2009)

Can't speak for all INTJs but I didn't have a relationship until I was 19 and in university. I found boys very immature and pesky until that age. And yes, I was focused on making it to a highly competitive course in university. I've always been as straight as an arrow but I had that INTJ seriousness and single-minded focus.

By the way agokcen, talking about how I feel about someone was the hardest thing ever when I was a teenager. It was even harder than doing the most complex algebra. I either didn't know how I felt or it was something I couldn't answer without a lot of stammering, blushing and confusion for the other party. It was much easier for me to answer a question like "do you want to do something together?" I don't see the ambiguity of your INTJ friend's answer as bad. I can't tell from what you said how he feels about you but I think the relationship is worth a shot. All the best!


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## agokcen (Jan 3, 2010)

I wuv you, Rouge. :happy:


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## Rouge (Sep 6, 2009)

I wuv you too *hugs*

:blushed:


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## Robatix (Mar 26, 2009)

agokcen said:


> That's actually excellent advice. One of my friends is dating his brother (the two are very similar) and gave me advice not unlike yours.


When I have no past experience to inform a currently pending decision, it can feel as if I'm venturing onto unsteady ground, and in such cases, my first impulse is to avoid providing a definitive answer right away, so that I'm able to secure more time in which to consider my choice. His answers, while perhaps lacking in grace, remind me of the sort of explanation I might give, if I were certain that a negative response would be untruthful, while an affirmative answer could yet be misleading. Have you gathered any new information from the conversations you've had with him since?



> Am I to take this as a "yes" to my marriage proposal? roud:


Yep! Although it's not like you phrased your proposal in the form of a "Yes" or "No" question. :laughing:



agokcen said:


> Alas, the truth had to come out eventually. Try as I might to downplay it, yes, I am a senior in high school.


Why downplay it? There's no shame in being somewhere most of us have been, or will be someday.


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## WickedQueen (Jun 1, 2009)

Stop contacting him for a month. Stop seeing him for a month. This is supposed to give him a "space". If in some occasions you both accidentally meet, just relax, give him smile and said "hi".

After a month, call him for casual lunch or coffee or something. Once or twice a week. When you guys meet, give him the best of you. Show him how much you care and how much you like him.

Don't call or text him for something unimportant, like asking how was he, what he was doing, blah blah blah. Do not contact him every day. Control yourself.

See how things going on after 5-6 months.

Be patient. Relax. Be yourself.

Good luck.


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## teabiscits (Jun 4, 2009)

Rouge said:


> YES. He's giving a potential relationship with you a chance. You should too.
> 
> Perhaps his answer didn't give you the emotional assurance you sought. But a lot of T types aren't good with this. When it comes to relatioships with them, forget about the lovey-dovey stuff. If an INTJ spends time with you, you can be sure he has positive feelings towards you.



INTJ'S hate almost everyone so take it as a compliment that he wants to be in the same room as you. from the tone of the messages i think he was being as honest as he possibly could. he likes you he definately doesn't dislike you and would be willing to stay friends and see what may come out of it who knows. maybe it won't work out romantically but you could have found a friend for life. or a friend to have around during the summer.:happy:


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## Ungweliante (Feb 26, 2009)

If a person is interested in you - and you'll tell him/her that you're interested - then the response won't be avoidant, like the INTJ's response was. He is not interested in you. Moreover, your relatively drastic communication problems at this early a phase are indicative of you liking an idealised image of him, not the actual person. The fallout between the actual and idealised version of him - even if a relationship would somehow happen - would lead to a lot of emotional problems and via them, an unhappy relationship. It is easier for you both if you'll move on ASAP.


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## beth x (Mar 4, 2010)

I say hang out with him. His writing reeks of nearly every bit of uncertainty that I ever wrote myself. I don't make decisions based on notes or conversations on msn either. He obviously needs more data to make his mind up. Keep in mind that he is busy with his plans and probably skeptical as to whether he might be dealing some emotional minefield that will cause an undoing of his plans...another aspect I relate to as well. I am always trying to figure if he will get in my way, demand too much, do I have the time, is it going to be all about the emotion....etc.

What harm can there be in hanging with someone if there is a non-commitment already placed? Maybe I will look into this and see if there is something there? That's the way I would see it.


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## SeekJess (Nov 1, 2009)

I hate it when people do that kind of stuff. I just wanna be like mean what you say, and say what you mean already!


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## lalalalalalalala (Apr 4, 2010)

I didn't read other people's comments.
Summary of what I thought about the convo:

You're smart, he's dumb. Go do better.


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## PeevesOfCourse (Apr 15, 2010)

Interpretatiion IMO: he's not interested in romance, he might have time for a friend if you can compete with whatever mission he's on. He'd probably be happy enough to have a cup of coffee with you and see what happens, and if you had sufficient stuff to talk about and enjoyed the meeting, he might have another cup, or lunch, sometime. I wouldn't read too much potential into that conversation though! LOL.


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## danicx (Dec 5, 2009)

Awwwww! I empathize/lol at that interaction. Your frustration is palpable.

My interpretation is that he's seriously trying to be direct about how he feels. You get this problem with INTJ's and ENTJ's because they have tertiary & auxiliary Fi! I'd actually advise not trying to probe his emotions, because it seems like he legitimately gets confused and distressed when he has to look inward and search for that. Something that helped me in my similar situation with an ENTJ is just realizing that you are _way_ more emotionally comfortable than he is. So for me it's really helped to - rather than being endlessly frustrated that he won't give _me_ what I need - assume the position of the emotionally stronger one among you two, and be sympathetic and gentle with him because he needs to take that kind of thing slowly and awkwardly (inside).

My impression is that he really just thought "whoa what the fuck is going on" and felt pressured to delve into an area he's uncomfortable about. Also, consider the possibility that he admires your greater ability in the area of relationships. And I think if you dial down your desperation and show by example that feelings aren't distressing and scary, that's your best bet at getting him to reflect more on this. I would suggest just to be his friend and try to educate him a bit, try to get him to loosen up and be more comfortable with openness, but really don't push him harder than he can take. It's a more selfless position - which yes I know is hard for ENTP's! - but in my experience my Fe really knows how to handle it when I actually love a person (or you know, whatever state you feel you're in over this guy.)


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## InvisibleJim (Jun 30, 2009)

Your INTJ doesn't have enough information to know if it will work, he wants it to but can't until he knows and he feels he is protecting himself by standing at a distance. This is a very enneagram 5 reaction. 

The solution is to spend time with him until he realises you aren't as scary as he might fear and he gains enough data to know if it is the right thing to do. This will take time and patience, we don't think as quickly about these things as you do.

If he then says no, then there is no doubt, if he then says yes then you will find he will not change his mind.

If you wish to probe for more details I'm happy to answer your questions.


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## agokcen (Jan 3, 2010)

InvisibleJim said:


> Your INTJ doesn't have enough information to know if it will work, he wants it to but can't until he knows and he feels he is protecting himself by standing at a distance. This is a very enneagram 5 reaction.
> 
> The solution is to spend time with him until he realises you aren't as scary as he might fear and he gains enough data to know if it is the right thing to do. This will take time and patience, we don't think as quickly about these things as you do.
> 
> ...


Thanks for this!

Just checking: "Spend time with him" = actually try to hang out with him and whatnot?

...what do INTJs do with other people for fun? :laughing:


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## mesheree (Apr 30, 2010)

My Ni is telling me that the entire problem is that you're trying to go from "love note" to "relationship" in one jump. That would make _anyone _nervous, especially an INTJ in high school.

Here's a bit of advice from a geek chick who was surrounded by introvert guys in high school... They do not mature as fast as girls. If you're hell-bent on this guy, you might have to wait until he's like, 24. Most of the guys in my little geek-crowd were virgins until after 20. It's just one of mother nature's cruel jokes. Your INTJ's ambiguous answers are probably brutally honest--he's trying to tell you that he thinks being obligated to another person will handicap him in the pursuit of his current goals, and since he's never been in a relationship, he doesn't know whether the benefits of having a girlfriend are worth it.

My advice: Cool your jets. He said he was willing to go hang out with you, so go do that. Be his bud, and see what happens. Don't pressure him to be in a "relationship", and don't come down too hard on yourself if it doesn't pan out.

When I was in high school, I liked to go roller blading and hang out with small groups of friends (mostly guys) watching movies or playing board/computer games, or playing air hockey or an arcade game at the theater before a movie. Maybe if you have a small group of 2-4 co-ed or guy friends that like relatively tame stuff like that, you can invite him. It's less akward that way, because more people = more ideas about stuff to do or talk about. Make sure it's not all girls, though, because that will intimidate him.


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## InvisibleJim (Jun 30, 2009)

agokcen said:


> ...what do INTJs do with other people for fun? :laughing:


See movies
Play games together (see chess draugts etc.), possibly a bit early for pillow fights.
Go out and have food together and any other occasion which will generate interesting debate.
Waste time on the internet. (not a twosome activity)
Share an interest together, for example
Some INTJs like exercise (some it's not the rule) and some like playing music.


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## 2ds (May 2, 2010)

Dude he's an INTJ. It's like you just slipped a love note to the toaster, of course it's confused it has no idea of why someone wants to date it!!

You need to go all spock on his arse and explain _logically_ (prefereably with a formal mathematical proof if possible) why you guys should be dating. Go hang out with him and be awesome, he might come around


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## lalalalalalalala (Apr 4, 2010)

Oopsies,

Well, okay. Erm...I'm still a little confused on what's happening.
My dad's and INTJ...we don't exactly get along.
They're not the warm cuddly type.
Or nice type.

So, er...have fun with that!


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## agokcen (Jan 3, 2010)

*This is super long and boring-looking, but you know you love me and want to help me out anyway...because I'm suffering.* :crying:

I'm revivin' this thread because I now have_ new_ issues. Woo! Well, actually...same guy, more progress, continuing adventures, neverending confusion and frustration...ahhh, life with my INTJ.

Conveniently, I've been posting about my troubles in the "What are you thinking about right now?" thread, so I'm pretty much just going to use these posts as my background explanation.

*NOTE: There is A LOT of crap here. Feel free to skim or just focus on my summaries (in red italics) -- the end is what's important, but I figure I ought to make as much of the context available as I can for anyone who cares.*

Alright...I'm putting this in chronological order. It starts in late May and ends...well, it doesn't end, really. Sigh.

*May 20:*


agokcen said:


> I'm thinking about how confused I am. Prepare for ze rant.
> 
> Monsieur INTJ has more or less ignored me when I've tried to talk about setting up a time to hang out -- which he claimed he wanted to do -- but then he'll actually _initiate_ contact in other situations, which is a very rare thing for him. He's ridiculously solitary. Today, however, he actually came and sat with the group I was hanging out with during field day (entirely of his own accord!), and we got into a heated debate about grammar, which everyone else later said sounded very flirtatious. (Before you laugh, remember: we're ENTP and INTJ, and very intellectual. Yes, grammar _can_ be a flirty subject, especially since his version of "flirting" is arguing, debating, and generally being a nuisance in whatever way he can, all of which he's been doing lately.)
> 
> ...


_This happened after the whole ordeal about which I originally created this thread. He suddenly started opening up to me more, and yet was still being weird about hanging out even though he kept on saying it was fine._


*May 22:*


agokcen said:


> I'm wondering what the hell I'm doing up so late. Oh, yeah...finishing my radio play project. :dry:
> 
> On the (sort of) bright side, I just spent the last twelve hours in my basement with the INTJ of my dreams (and two other girls, but it's whatever). The whole night was very flirtatious between him and me, and the radio play we were making was kind of funny in that it's a complete allegory for our relationship. He plays a deadpan detective, and I play the sultry woman with whom he had a fling a while back, but now he's pushing her away because he doesn't have time for such things. Awkward...:tongue:
> 
> ...


_This is where the real bonding and progress begins, see. We ended up being in a group together for a project and stayed at my house until 3 am working on it...yikes! In the meantime, it felt like a lot of flirting happened. Or maybe that was just the sleep deprivation. In any case, so began the growth of a very close friendship, where there once was only awkwardness..._


*May 29:*


agokcen said:


> I'm pondering how excited I should allow myself to be at the fact that he texted me first. I'm easily excited by the little, insignificant things, but I don't want to overdo it.


_Ah, yes. At this point, I had complained to my friend (who's dating his brother and has known him for years, and blah, blah, blah) about how he'd been sending mixed messages. She told him to quit fooling around, and he promptly gave me his cell phone number (I'd already given him mine) and texted me (first!) shortly thereafter. He told her he wasn't aware he'd been doing anything confusing. I have no doubts that he was telling the truth about his cluelessness..._


*May 30:*


agokcen said:


> I'm thinking about how I'm super tired, for one. Moreso, however, I'm thinking that I'm content with where I am right now. I've spent the vast majority of the past few days talking to/hanging out with a certain someone, and while it's totally casual, I'm okay with this. If something happens, that's great; if not, I'm really just enjoying his company. I'm exactly where I want to be.


_At this point and through early June, he and I began talking online almost every night for several hours, texting with some frequency (he's got very limited texting), and hanging out at various graduation parties, including intimate get-togethers after the party-hopping._


*June 8:*


agokcen said:


> *Finally! Someone who understands, cares about, and actually wants to hear all of the weird theories and craziness brewing in my head!*
> 
> *dies happy*


_We have all sorts of philosophical, weird discussions, and this exemplifies how I feel about that..._


*June 9:*


agokcen said:


> Cedar Point on Thursday. It's going to be a day of fun for me, my INTJ, and all of our friends....Needless to say, I'm pretty freakin' excited! Not to mention, we're already planning to start the day off right with the Top Thrill Dragster. Awww, yeah!


_School orchestra trip to Cedar Point. I told him he had to be my ride buddy, since he was missing my graduation party for an out of state competition. (He didn't have to agree, but he did...interestingly enough.)_


*June 10:*


agokcen said:


> I'm thinking that today was utterly amazing, and yet now I'm troubled beyond belief. What the heck do I doooo?!?! *headdesk*


_Long story short, Cedar Point was awesome. We spent the day together. It almost felt couple-y. The others in our group kept on pestering us about it and "oooh"-ing at us and whatnot. Kinda awkward, but in the best possible way! We both agreed that it was lots of fun...:happy:_


*July 1:*


agokcen said:


> I'm thinking about tonight. We had a movie night with a bunch of people, and my INTJ 1.) sat next to me (for the whole night! In a seat with no armrest between us!) entirely of his own accord (I didn't even ask), and 2.) didn't flinch away when our arms "accidentally" touched...and got closer...and closer...until our entire forearms were "accidentally" touching for the rest of the night. Lord knows he's no fan of human contact, either....Agh, what does this mean? Does it mean anything at all, or am I just crazy? But if it meant nothing, why did he so deliberately move from his previous seat to sit next to me once the movie was starting, and why didn't he move his arm? Like, he would even move his arm to scratch or do various things for a brief moment, and then move it back to the exact same position against mine. There's always a chance that he was oblivious to it all, but I feel like that's not too likely in this case -- it was definitely noticeable. If he didn't like it, he could've politely moved away...which he never did...and sometimes he even inched a bit closer...maybe? Or was it really entirely me doing the inching? I couldn't tell...
> 
> Oh, I don't know. I wanted to do something more blatant (like resting my head on his shoulder, perhaps?), but I chickened out because I didn't want to freak him out, and I knew my friends would see and never let me hear the end of it.
> 
> ...


_Uh...gee. This one sounds RIDICULOUSLY lame, but it's probably best just to read through it to understand. Basically, he's very antisocial, and he doesn't, like, ever touch people, let alone girls...so this was a bigger deal than it sounds like...maybe..._


*July 8:*


agokcen said:


> I'm excited, 'cause I'm spending the day at a certain INTJ-someone's house tomorrow! Weeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
> 
> (I actually suggested other things, but that was what he wanted to do...:blushed


_Yeah...I spent the day at his house. The ENTIRE day. And a good part of the evening. It was fun and continued to feel slightly couple-y....Read the below part for more on that._


*July 10:*


agokcen said:


> I'm feeling unsure.
> 
> I'm also afraid that I make a fool out of myself because I'm so head-over-heels. It makes me do silly things like stay way longer than I should, or take playful arguments too far. I don't want to ruin things (with both him and his family) because I'm loopy from emotions and stuff. For some reason, all of my sense goes out the window when he's involved...
> 
> ...


_This post pretty much summed it all up at this point. I'm more or less in the same position now, except that he spent the day at my house today, and I kept wanting to say something, but I don't want to ruin everything..._


*Okay. Now. My current issue is that I have no idea what he's thinking, and I have no idea how to talk about it, or if I should even bring it up. Looking at the situation from the outside (as in, not knowing him), it seems apparent that there's *something* there. And, honestly, I *feel* like there is. I mean...he was at my house from 1 pm until 11:30 tonight. Most of the time, we were just sitting and talking. It feels pretty damn couple-y to me! HOWEVER, if anyone would be totally oblivious to all of this, it would be him. Not likely, but always possible.*

*Well, he doesn't normally hang out with anyone, let alone with girls...and even a girl he's fully aware has feelings for him? I'll take that as a sign. And we have so many inside jokes and whatnot, it's not even funny....I feel like we know each other way more than would normal friends. There's a definite connection.*

*Agh! Whenever I talk about it, it sounds completely obvious that there's something between us, but it's really not that simple! As I read over this post, it almost feels ridiculously plain to see, and as though there's no point to even posting this. What was I asking for help on again? *

*I want to have a frank discussion with him about everything, but I don't want to ruin anything or scare him away, and, like I said, I don't know how to bring it up, or what to say. I just...I don't know.*

*I don't know what to dooooo...:crying:*


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## Diphenhydramine (Apr 9, 2010)

If you really do like him you ought to make a move before friendzoning occurs, since you spend a lot of time together. I have seen it happen a lot of times; people who might otherwise go into a relationship don't for one reason or another and one, or both, parties end up becoming good friends. It's not a bad thing. Just consider whether he's a better present friend or a more desirable future boyfriend. If you explain that to him then I think he will appreciate it, as an NT (especially a Te NT). If you think that acting on your impulse will ruin your friendship, my advice is that it isn't worth it, but then, I'm not you.


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## SaraBell (Jun 3, 2010)

This is pretty much how I react when somebody tells me they are interested in me so I'll tell you what I think (though I haven't read all of the responses so I may just be repeating what somebody else has already told you). He is being completely honest when he says he is unsure how he feels. He probably never thought of the possiblity of a relationship with you, though he probably has a bit of a crush on you since he seems to be willing to test things out by going on a date. I think you will have to make most of the "first moves" or this won't go anywhere, but if you are willing to he will probably go with the flow. Once he is comfortable with the idea that you really want to be with him, I think he will get over his initial cautiousness and reciprocate. I do stress that you will probably need to be bold in asserting how you feel, what you want, and where you are in the "relationship" (as it goes along) because I very much doubt he will.


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