# Am I an SJ that sounds like an NT?



## Capitalist (Nov 26, 2013)

I have often wondered whether I am really an ISTJ/ISFJ rather than an INFJ. I have often questioned how my beliefs are derived. I think I observe the world and then contrast it to an ideology to reaffirm my beliefs. Whenever I make a decision i usually weigh up the facts, and make a rationale choice. Sometimes though I will make a choice because I *feel* that a certain choice is better for me even if its not the most rationale choice. For example I have purchased swiss watches that cost $5,000 and over because I liked them. The same go for my pens I buy.


Needless to say I think I am an IxFJ. I am a conservative libertarian at my core, and I feel better when I read books of that ideology. I value the institutions that protect me and everyone else. I also has a strong sense of what is right and wrong. I need to have a purpose in life in order to value myself, and make myself have self-esteem and self-actualisation.

I need to be doing something, and contributing in a way to a community whether that's a forum, informing people about current affairs, etc. I am certainly not an Idealist, I'm more a realist like George Will and certain like to discuss current affairs with people. Much more so then say theories. Though political theory and economic theory is nice to an extent where it can be applicable, anything else is pure fantasy.

So what does this make me? :/

PS I'm a Type 1 wing 9


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## Capitalist (Nov 26, 2013)

Also people that inspire me:


Margaret Thatcher
Enoch Powell
F.A. Hayek
Richard Nixon
Cicero
Lee Kuan Yew
Chiang Kai-Shek


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## frayonka (Jan 3, 2013)

SJs are as capable of analytical thinking as NTs, only the basis on which they operate is different (imagination vs. experience) as well as their goals [security and usefulness vs. innovation?].

I'd go for ISFJ.


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## Capitalist (Nov 26, 2013)

Hello ISFJ'er. 

Thank you for taking the time out to check-out my thread. I've kind of thought the ISFJ might be the more logical label. I'm at heart a conservative, and some of the conservative stances are emotionally derived from how I feel about my values. I never really took a stance on the _Pro-life V. Pro-choice_ argument, just sat on the fence, until I could intellectualise the feeling I had about the issue. 

Also I think one of the cognitive processes I use is Introverted Thinking. I tend to think to myself in my head to problem solve, although I am quite organised at work, and have all the logistical operations in my head, and I can work on the fly. If there's a problem I take a time-out to think it out.

I would say Introverted Intuition is better than my extroverted thinking. I believe both are ISFJ cognition processes.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Capitalist said:


> I have often wondered whether I am really an ISTJ/ISFJ rather than an INFJ. I have often questioned how my beliefs are derived. I think I observe the world and then contrast it to an ideology to reaffirm my beliefs. Whenever I make a decision i usually weigh up the facts, and make a rationale choice. Sometimes though I will make a choice because I *feel* that a certain choice is better for me even if its not the most rationale choice. For example I have purchased swiss watches that cost $5,000 and over because I liked them. The same go for my pens I buy.
> Needless to say I think I am an IxFJ. I am a conservative libertarian at my core, and I feel better when I read books of that ideology. I value the institutions that protect me and everyone else. I also has a strong sense of what is right and wrong. I need to have a purpose in life in order to value myself, and make myself have self-esteem and self-actualisation.
> I need to be doing something, and contributing in a way to a community whether that's a forum, informing people about current affairs, etc. I am certainly not an Idealist, I'm more a realist like George Will and certain like to discuss current affairs with people. Much more so then say theories. Though political theory and economic theory is nice to an extent where it can be applicable, anything else is pure fantasy.
> So what does this make me? :/
> PS I'm a Type 1 wing 9


judging by your username, I have difficulty seeing you as anything but a TJ


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## Word Dispenser (May 18, 2012)

Your political leanings and attitudes have nothing to do with your personality type.

Your personality type, whether we're talking about MBTI or the cognitive functions, is just a platform for how you view and take in information.

Any type could be leaning politically left or right, but the reasons and motivations behind that choice and rationale need to be examined.

I'd suggest that you pour over the cognitive functions stickie in the Cognitive functions sub-forum, to get some insight on how personalities seem to work at their core. You could also play a bit with socionics, which I've seen as being the most accurate in terms of how types bounce off of each other and how each function attitude is expressed in tandem with others.

Good luck finding answers!


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## Capitalist (Nov 26, 2013)

Word Dispenser said:


> Your political leanings and attitudes have nothing to do with your personality type.
> 
> Your personality type, whether we're talking about MBTI or the cognitive functions, is just a platform for how you view and take in information.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your response. I did make some cognitive processes remarks later on such as Introverted thinking, and perhaps introverted intuition.


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## Capitalist (Nov 26, 2013)

here are the processes from similarminds.

Cognitive Process	Level of Development (Preference, Skill and Frequency of Use)
extraverted Sensing (Se) **************** (16.2)
limited use
introverted Sensing (Si) ************************************** (38.3)
excellent use
extraverted Intuiting (Ne) ************************** (26.2)
average use
introverted Intuiting (Ni) ************************** (26)
average use
extraverted Thinking (Te) ****************************** (30.3)
good use
introverted Thinking (Ti) ************************************** (38.3)
excellent use
extraverted Feeling (Fe) ******************** (20)
limited use
introverted Feeling (Fi) ******************************************** (44.1)
excellent use


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## Xenograft (Jul 1, 2013)

I'm an SJ that votes liberal, which goes against SJ stereotypes, just to reinforce the fact that MBTI doesn't really causate a certain political viewpoint, just a way of thinking. How do you react to being threatened in any way?


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## Capitalist (Nov 26, 2013)

Lazy Bear said:


> I'm an SJ that votes liberal, which goes against SJ stereotypes, just to reinforce the fact that MBTI doesn't really causate a certain political viewpoint, just a way of thinking. How do you react to being threatened in any way?


If I am threatened during perhaps a debate I will verbally joust and be on the offensive listing fallacies, or data that goes against their beliefs. 

If it is an work, or being threatened with my life, I am calm, and collected, and will not back down. I just don't provoke arguments, however I stand my ground when provoked.


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## Kabosu (Mar 31, 2012)

Lazy Bear said:


> I'm an SJ that votes liberal, which goes against SJ stereotypes, just to reinforce the fact that MBTI doesn't really causate a certain political viewpoint, just a way of thinking. How do you react to being threatened in any way?


My grandma is ESFJ and is a political liberal and her Christianity is in a more liberal kind of way. If people saw how the way she does things is relatively traditional rather than views she had I think she'd come off as a temperament SJ.


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## tangosthenes (Oct 29, 2011)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> judging by your username, I have difficulty seeing you as anything but a TJ


I've seen your posts around this forum, and I hope you're doing some sort of meta-troll, because your judgments are really shitty and you should try to make more sense.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

tangosthenes said:


> I've seen your posts around this forum, and I hope you're doing some sort of meta-troll, because your judgments are really shitty and you should try to make more sense.


am I? the world will never know :ninja:


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## SirBlunder (Jun 24, 2013)

Reading the OP I had a strong impression that you were a TJ. Looking at the functions I would say that you are most likely an ISTJ. ISTJs on this sight tend to score high on Ti and have varying Fi. You could be an ISFJ but I wouldn't know because of lack of experience with 1s.


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## Capitalist (Nov 26, 2013)

SirBlunder said:


> Reading the OP I had a strong impression that you were a TJ. Looking at the functions I would say that you are most likely an ISTJ. ISTJs on this sight tend to score high on Ti and have varying Fi. You could be an ISFJ but I wouldn't know because of lack of experience with 1s.


Thank you for the response. It is greatly appreciated.


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## Capitalist (Nov 26, 2013)

I did this, hoping it would help.

1. Is there anything that may affect the way you answer the questions? For example, a stressful time, mental illness, medications, special life circumstances? Other useful information includes sex, age, and current state of mind.

Yes, I have Manic Depressive Disorder, Psychosis, delusions. I am male, 24, and feel okay. 

2. Study these two images here and here. Which one do you prefer and why? How would you describe it?

I prefer this one clicky, Mainly because I relate it to a memory in my past. It makes me think of a moment I was walking on a beach at night with a girl I had a crush on, who passed away. I imagine a cool sea breeze. The temperature is 22 celsius, She's in a beautiful dress, the wind blows her hair back. 

3. Please describe yourself as a person if you were to introduce yourself to someone else like in a cover letter. What kind of person are you and why?

4. What kind of person would you LIKE to be? Why? What kind of person would you NOT want to be? Why?

For some reason at work I lose my nerve of steel and assertiveness that I have in every other situation. I would like to be more outgoing, learn to not think so much, and learn. If I could be more sociable, and not caring about appearances so much, or the content of talk then I'd feel a lot better. why? Because I get caught up in the minute details, I am meticulous and I comb through everything usually. 

I don't want to be a lonely person on his own, I don't want to be a failure in my career, I do not want to be stuck in a dead-end low paid job. Why? because my family has made a severe investment in my education. I certainly have the intellect. My father earns $350,000 per annum. So I do not want to be the prodigy child that failed. 

5. Do you think there are any differences to how you described yourself and how people actually perceive you? How do you think others would describe you? If there are any discrepancies between these two that are you are aware of; do you know why exactly that is?

Yes there is definitely a severe difference. Others will say I'm cerebral, care-free, fun loving, extroverted, and confident. When in fact, it's all just a farce. Its a facade. I am generally easy-going and when the worst happens at work, I just shrug my shoulders and deal with it. I am always making jokes, and having a laugh at work. I go to all the parties I'm invited too, however the reality is I am empty, I usually am neurotic and stress about the next shift I have at work. 

6. What in life do you find to be of importance? Why? If you are unsure you can always take the Value Test and post the results here. Do note that it helps if you narrow it down to 20 or ideally 10 values as suggested at stage 2.

Money, Career, Family. I find these 3 things are important and will define me. without these i might as well be nothing.

7. How do you react to new situations in your life? Can you describe an event in your life where you were in an unknown situation? How did you deal with it?

Once at work we lost electricity and for the first time I had to unload a truck with no electricity. I didn't fret or stress over it. In fact I laughed at the misfortune event that had occurred. I thought and tried to work out how I would get my job done. I had a chat with the driver while I did my job. Things got worse, and the boss asked me to stay back and do a monumental job, which I did, and we worked to get old the cold stock into a working refrigerator. Conversation was often, informal, and light hearted banter.

8. Please describe yourself when you are in a stressful situation. How do you act and why? Real life experiences are welcome.

In a stressful situation I am relaxed. I let things beyond my control pan out. I just deal with the situation on the chin and do the best I can, whilst still having a chat to the group about irrelevant stuff. I am always relaxed, calm and collected. When I am in charge I am usually still calm and collected, but at very tense moments I do knuckle down and Order people what to do and I might be a little more quiet as I deal with the situation.

9. Please describe yourself when you are in an enjoyable situation. How do you act and why? Real life experiences are welcome.

I like to talk a lot. And in an enjoyable situation I am animated. I am perspicacious. I get along well with people, loosen up, and have fun. However I am not bold, or daring. But I am an "enabler." If someone does or says something I enable them to talk more and even encourage them to do something that they say they will do. In one circumstance a friend kept talking about how hot a girl was in a bar but was afraid of approaching her. Therefore I got up and went over to her, and talked to her, and then introduced her to my friend who was afraid of talkign to her.

10. Describe your relationship to socialization. How do you perceive one-on-one interaction? How do you perceive group interaction?

I enjoy one-to-one interactions more I get along better. I feel more benefit talking in a one-to-one situation and I can get my teeth into the conversation. In a group I feel like there's a pretence and were all just scratching around the surface and not really making much talk about anything but generalities. I love to talk to one person purely on something they really like and enjoy talking about.

11. Describe your relationship to society. What are the elements of it you hold important or unimportant (e.g. social norms, values, customs, traditions)? How do you see people as a whole?

I highly value moral traditions. I am a conservative and believe that such moral traditions should be revered even if they can not be rationalised, mainly because they are important values that keep the fabric of society together.

12. Describe your relationship to authority. How do you perceive authority? What does it mean to you, and how do you deal with it?

Authority is an institution which provides security to everyone. I highly respect the police, et al. They are there to protect me and everyone. I would never provoke, or get into a heated argument with an authority member. I have had no negative experiences with the authority either. As for rules. I follow them within reason. Sometimes I will break a rule if I think its ridiculous, however I usually go by the book 99% of the time.

Authority to me is the embodiment of a peaceful, orderly society. 

13. Describe your relationship to order and chaos. What do order and chaos mean to you? How do they manifest in your daily life? 

I prefer order, and I like to have a plan or scheme, I like things penciled in. I never put things down in pen. but I like to have a mental map of what to do and what time and when. When it comes to chaos. I just deal with it, and I wing it. I don't particularly enjoy it. I find it disruptive, and it is more stressful. If I had a choice, I prefer things to be planned and ticking like a clock.

Generally my daily life is planned. I have ascheme or idea how im going to spend my time and when.


14. What is it that you fear in life? Why? How does this fear manifest to you both in how you think and how you act?

I fear that I will never find a wife that will love me for who I am. I fear that I will never get a job I like, and it will not challenge me, or that I will not get a six figure salary when I am 40 years or older. I fear that I will never be happy. the fear manifests to me as the end of the world, apocalyptic. 

15. What is it that you desire in life? What do you strive to achieve? Why? Where do you think these drives and desires stem from or are inspired by?

I would like to deal in foreign policy, or be a politician one day. I feel like its necessary that I have to be the bread winner, and have a successful career. I want to be pretty good on the piano, and I'd like to be a father of 2. I think the drives come from meeting some standards I've put on my life, whether they are what I think society should expect me to do, or what I think is reasonable and rational. I think I should be well off to be respected in society. I also want a family and be a good father.

16. a) What activities energize you most? 


Gambling/Roulette
Travelling on a Cruise ship
Going to a bar
Reading a philosophical book

I like to have a good time. I enjoy gambling and can be very reckless with money when it comes to roulettes. I have bet $6400 once. I enjoy going on cruise chips heading down the bar, talking to bartender, drinking a singapore sling and talking to other people. That is interesting. I enjoy reading more about ideas, but it can be taxing.


b) What activities drain you most? Why?

Getting into a heated argument
Watching TV
Gossip
getting caught up in an ideological argument
science

Arguments wear me out emotionally, And then I feel physically drained. An Ideological argument on a principle wears me out because I feel like we're splitting hairs, and circumventing the facts and the current affairs. It's also fantasy talk. I can not stand television or gossip about reality stars. I can't care, and There's more important and serious event transpiring.

Even though I appreciate science It tires my mind out fast and quick.

17. Why do you want to know your type? What type do you think you are? Why this/these type(s)? Is there a type that appeals to you, to your self-perception, that you would like to be? Why? If you know your enneagram, please post this here. If you have done any online function tests such as the Keys2Cognition, it helps if you post these results here as well.

I want to understand how I function. Why am I susceptible to how I act and behave. I think its interesting understanding my behaviour. I find ENTJ and ESTJ appealing mainly because they get things done, and have a nerve of steel all the time. I like NT's more because they are more abstract. 

My enneagram is 1w2 So/sp 

18. Finally, is there something else you find to be of importance you want to add about yourself you think might be of relevance when helping to type you?

I'm a conservative Capitalist.


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## Capitalist (Nov 26, 2013)

I'd appreciate any other opinions.


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## SirBlunder (Jun 24, 2013)

* *






Capitalist said:


> I did this, hoping it would help.
> 
> 1. Is there anything that may affect the way you answer the questions? For example, a stressful time, mental illness, medications, special life circumstances? Other useful information includes sex, age, and current state of mind.
> 
> ...





In my mind you have already sealed the deal for ISTJ; even though I don't completely relate to you.
Here are some common ISTJ traits ISTJ - Jung Type Descriptions
http://www.patwyman3keys.com/3keys/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/ISTJ-1.pdf


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Capitalist said:


> I'm at heart a conservative, and some of the conservative stances are *emotionally derived* from how I *feel about my values*. I never really took a stance on the _Pro-life V. Pro-choice_ argument, just sat on the fence, until I could *intellectualise the feeling* I had about the issue.


Explain.



> I would say Introverted Intuition is better than my extroverted thinking. I believe both are ISFJ cognition processes.


ISFJs don't have Ni or Te.
SPs and NJs have Ni.
FPs and TJs have Te.


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Capitalist said:


> 11. Describe your relationship to society. What are the elements of it you hold important or unimportant (e.g. social norms, values, customs, traditions)? How do you see people as a whole?
> 
> I highly value moral traditions. I am a conservative and believe that such moral traditions should be revered even if they can not be rationalised, mainly because they are important values that keep the fabric of society together.


This sounds like a rather clear Fe FYI.
Fe users tend to have the values of the people around them and of society. Fi users focus on their own sense of values and ignore the values of society to a larger degree.
In the same way, Te users trust the logic of authority figures and people close to them etc. whereas Ti users only really trust their own sense of logic. Which is also why I will mention @arkigos so he can give his point of view.
Fe and Te tends to seek to create a consensus of their particular area (values or logic).
Fi and Ti tends to just want to do their own thing no matter how much people disagree with it.

In a way, FPs and TPs tries to "wreck" the systems that FJs and TJs have made.


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