# Women like men whose feelings are unclear?



## drizzy lake (Apr 28, 2017)

@Sygma: so you recommend me the book is hwat you're saying?

True honesty to yourself should be anyways your priority beyond the realms of relationships and dating


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## Sygma (Dec 19, 2014)

drizzy lake said:


> @Sygma: so you recommend me the book is hwat you're saying?
> 
> True honesty to yourself should be anyways your priority beyond the realms of relationships and dating



Yeah, Corey's book and Mark Monson's one called Models. Advices in there are brutal in a self humbling way, but if you already went through the deconstruction of your own ego there's a lot of life changing, simple, respectful for everyone stuff.


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## drizzy lake (Apr 28, 2017)

Sygma said:


> Yeah, Corey's book and Mark Monson's one called Models. Advices in there are brutal in a self humbling way, but if you already went through the deconstruction of your own ego there's a lot of life changing, simple, respectful for everyone stuff.


Coreys is free right? The online pdf


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## Sygma (Dec 19, 2014)

drizzy lake said:


> Coreys is free right? The online pdf


No idea, bought it years ago

https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/view/55908333/pdfdownloaderlainin-33421576-how-to-be-a-3-man

There you go


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## incision (May 23, 2010)

It takes showing and telling for me. As someone with a secure attachment style, I evaluate potential partners by the two. If the two aren't synchronized, my spidey sense tingles since it's telling me to be wary of games. This is why I've never been fooled by PUAs.


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## angelfish (Feb 17, 2011)

drizzy lake said:


> I guess the idea is that women dont consciously know what they really want / are subconsciously attracted towards
> 
> And to counter the sexism argument:
> Its the same with guys. Like they thing they wanna bad bitch but they really want a good girl or something like that lol idk
> ...


Ha, ok. Thank you for your response! It's all right - it's not that I want validation as much as I think there's value in what the women here are saying and I don't want you to miss that because of confirmation bias. 

Regarding attraction - yeah, that's actually an enormously potent point. I think no matter how much we want to get away from it, there are some sexual "directives" written into our biology that are pretty hard to override and that probably can be manipulated a bit in interactions. For example... I think both men and women tend to acknowledge and feel attraction towards perceived competitive sexual value in a partner... hence the desire for the "bad boy" or "bad bitch" who clearly surpasses the average in terms of looks, behavior, independence, etc. And initial sexual impulses _are_ valuable... as Riso has pointed out, there's intelligence in attraction... and several posters in the thread have agreed that they're not into men essentially drooling over them - i.e. a total lack of perceived competition. But in terms of developing a long-term relationship, posters have also pointed out that they appreciate clarity and dislike deceit, and a few have pointed out that everyone is different. 

So I guess the question is _how much_ you can consciously utilize human tendencies to your advantage without accidentally shooting yourself in the foot. Since you identify as ENFJ I'd assume you're probably better than most at leveraging situations to mutual advantage. I think there can actually be some long-term advantage in "game"... even with lifelong partners... understanding how to attract and thrill and tease each other. But there has to be a migration from generics to individualization, too, if the goal is to get and keep a partner who is meaningful and beneficial to you, as you learn what their individual preferences are. To that end... yes, a little mystery is good, but it's not good to keep someone strung along and conflicted about their own relationship. 



Sygma said:


> Hey, thanks !
> 
> you seem one of the most emotionally in touch and its always nice to read your approach to situations. If there's a person who doesn't let herself stop at conjectures and would rather like having the whole picture before making a call that's you, and I respect that a lot. (plus you're genuinely pleasing to read in many ways) Kudos


Aw, you made my day. Thank you so much.


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## Catwalk (Aug 12, 2015)

Sygma said:


> To be fair, in the book its all about not making a point everyday that as an interested person, you actually love the other one or wanna talk about your feelings at "any" perceived issue. Its simply being sure that you're attracted and interested about the person you're dating while letting the relationship flourish on its own rythm, plus keeping yourself busy in order to not make said person your actual universe


This is all fine. His post(s) (&) answer(s) did not say any of this, so either he does not understand what was read, or did not read it.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

drizzy lake said:


> I love how all the girls in here are like "uhuh thats not how it goes" and then you come up as a guy who actually practises his stuff and tell me that its true and exactly how it goes ��


I didn't really get that from what Sygma said...I mean, I didn't get the 'PUA guy' (or I didn't get what Sygma said from the PUA guy's videos).

He says he read this PUA guy, and got these insights from him, but I watched a small bit of him and didn't catch any of that.

I absolutely think you can glean insights from almost anything, even stuff with a bunch of shit in it.

From what I understood of what Sygma said, is that men should show their feelings and not tell them--to me this means just acting out your feelings rather than relying on verbal expression.

I don't think this is a terrible idea as I think a lot of people do well to be wary of those who just talk a bunch but they don't show their values in their actions. A man who is being thoughtful seems like he'd be more trustworthy than a man who just 'expresses' he's being thoughtful. 

This is sort of how I read Sygma's post.

I don't know--I didn't get anything that he was saying from the original PUA guy, but I think we can gain insights from lots of places. 

So...everything Sygma said about this guy is new to me--I didn't hear it in your OP and I didn't hear it in the few videos or the stupid tweets the guy made. 

Sounds like someone bothered to read him and found something valuable in what he said though, so that's good I guess.

I guess though, I'm inclined to see Sygma's words as a reflection on Sygma's values and beliefs, since I've not seen sources that would attribute those insights to Corey. And my esteem of Sygma isn't high enough to just blindly take his word for it, though I acknowledge he's a fan. Glad to know this writer has been helpful though.


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## Sygma (Dec 19, 2014)

I mean if we want to do this proper that's how I can resume it (its all from the book) :

- the first four weeks, as a guy, you don't text / call at all and plan one date per week. When she calls you, of course you say that you're glad to hear from her then either 1) plan a date 2) don't if you already saw her

That's what keeps the guy focused on having his life / morale on track instead of throwing himself into a pit of passion, so to speak

Also by avoiding texting - calling you actually have things to talk about in person and in an overly connected world, its most definitely the best aspect (plus you know, you'll miss each other and that's kinda sweet)


- after four weeks, and only if she mentions that she wanna see you more, you get to two dates per week. 

- around sixth week (can take more, in my experience it never did) she'll ask for clarification / more and maybe you'll have sex by then


That's it. In the meantime you 

- don't bombard her at all with your insecurities if there aren't any, only call once - twice per week to keep in touch and plan a date. If she's on the verge of cancelling on date day you either stand your ground "hey so I've planned things and cleared my schedule to be with you, it would be nice to respect that" , or you don't care and wait for her to call you back (understand that as, the ball is in her court, she'll kinda have to make a move)

- keep yourself busy, keep working hard and do what you have to do to keep an enriching life going on

- let her come up with all the relationship talks if she wanna be exclusive or include you in her lovers picks. 

- make her feel really good by being awesome / secure. The more she'll think positively about you, the more she'll want to see you. And if she has some stuff she's unhappy about, don't be mad or anything, instead ask her if what she is bringing up actually is the ONLY thing she's not happy about. 

Ask her to tell you more, make her feel listened to while you're unshaken by any of it

You know you (really) like her enough to be close and there's no need to worry about anything else, if she wanna be your girlfriend she'll bring it up eventually. 

If not, life goes on and so will you


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## drizzy lake (Apr 28, 2017)

I really only needed the guy for "texting game" advise, since, like I said, I got involved with this girl and dont really have experience with this and she for some time really confused me and I wasnt sure what to do. And his approach is simply to not fall into the trap of "I must do something" but to use the phone for setting dates only and always letting her the space to come to you and go whenever she pleases.

I dont really use his stuff in one-on-one, I kinda know already how to treat a woman. Like I said, how to handle the phone was my problem and his advise was really simple but spot on and so I found some of his others too


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## Sygma (Dec 19, 2014)

drizzy lake said:


> I really only needed the guy for "texting game" advise, since, like I said, I got involved with this girl and dont really have experience with this and she for some time really confused me and I wasnt sure what to do. And his approach is simply to not fall into the trap of "I must do something" but to use the phone for setting dates only and always letting her the space to come to you and go whenever she pleases.
> 
> I dont really use his stuff in one-on-one, I kinda know already how to treat a woman. Like I said, how to handle the phone was my problem and his advise was really simple but spot on and so I found some of his others too


Yeah, keep it simple. It will be tough to act against your pre dispositions and when it is so just remember : men are like dogs

In tough times just be a secure one who don't need a leash or someone else to be happy


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## INFJRoanna (Dec 20, 2012)

This kind of thing seems slightly manipulative to me. If someone is ambiguous without the intention then fair enough, but to do it deliberately would be off putting to me, I don't appreciate game playing in that sense. Obviously we all have different views but I'm more of a 'come as you are' kind of person.


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## Sygma (Dec 19, 2014)

INFJRoanna said:


> This kind of thing seems slightly manipulative to me. If someone is ambiguous without the intention then fair enough, but to do it deliberately would be off putting to me, I don't appreciate game playing in that sense. Obviously we all have different views but I'm more of a 'come as you are' kind of person.


It's slightly manipulative to be cautious about dating and wanting to talk in person, while keeping it casual / slow?

There was a post above about the advices being in tune with my values and whatnot, to put it simply I'm literally gomez Adams irl.

Fairly hardcore sx/sp with a very strong fusional need,in order to be sure that the relationship is going somewhere since I'm sure of the feelings I got toward the person

And here's the thing, it's all about letting said person develop strong feelings on her own time while "refraining" to bond too quickly. You also can see more than one girl in the week, in fact putting all your eggs in one basket is not really ideal

It removed all the bad habits I had before, and can confidently say now that the very casual dating I engage in is sweet, honest and healthy. 

There's no worrying about anything, no pressure to be had. I just know I really like the person, and if she does too then great let's just have fun


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## Catwalk (Aug 12, 2015)

Sygma said:


> I mean if we want to do this proper that's how I can resume it (its all from the book) :
> 
> - the first four weeks, as a guy, you don't text / call at all and plan one date per week. When she calls you, of course you say that you're glad to hear from her then either 1) plan a date 2) don't if you already saw her
> 
> ...


Too slow, no communication, ambiguity, no initiation from him unless I do it, etc. I would be out with another more persistent man, and had forgotten all about him by then (two dates per month, or 1 date per week, sex in 6 weeks), small calls and check-ins between, but not daily - if interest is mutual and chemistry is good.

Persistence is only unattractive if the man is unattractive.


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## Sygma (Dec 19, 2014)

Catwalk said:


> Too slow, no communication, ambiguity, no initiation from him unless I do it, etc. I would be out with another more persistent man, and had forgotten all about him by then (two dates per month, or 1 date per week, sex in 6 weeks), small calls and check-ins between, but not daily - if interest is mutual and chemistry is good.
> 
> Persistence is only unattractive if the man is unattractive.


I've worded badly the no call / text at all, I meant that as no repeated chit chat over the phone (calls or texts), to save topics of conversations for dates in person. Usually I'd call to check up and then ask for a date. If there's no interest in said date I'd respectfully say "okay well, let me know when you change your mind !" and leave it at that

Like, you know, I don't wanna play at all. Its yes or no. As for the number of dates increasing, I'd let the woman come up with the suggestion. I mean I wouldn't call to begin with and be there if I wasn't interested, it's not ambiguous. It's just that honest and simple.


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## Catwalk (Aug 12, 2015)

Sygma said:


> I've worded badly the no call / text at all, I meant that as no repeated chit chat over the phone (calls or texts), to save topics of conversations for dates in person. Usually I'd call to check up and then ask for a date. If there's no interest in said date I'd respectfully say "okay well, let me know when you change your mind !" and leave it at that
> 
> Like, you know, I don't wanna play at all. Its yes or no. As for the number of dates increasing, I'd let the woman come up with the suggestion. I mean I wouldn't call to begin with and be there if I wasn't interested, it's not ambiguous. It's just that honest and simple.


Suppose he is just not my type of man, then. By time he think(s) about calling to schedule a second date in a month, I would've had over 4 face-to-face encounters with another man. 

This is assuming I am "dating for relationship" - and not "dating for fun," ... the face-to-face encounter(s) would strengthen bonds and confirm or reaffirm red flags, green flags, and suspicions. 




> I mean I wouldn't call to begin with and be there if I wasn't interested, it's not ambiguous. It's that simple


There are definitely male specimens that *only call*, just to waste my time. It is important to weed these specimens out as fast as possible. I will not save a man's number I only had one date with a month ago in my phone for a month - and definitely do not save number(s) after only one date.


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## Sygma (Dec 19, 2014)

Catwalk said:


> Suppose he is just not my type of man, then. By time he think(s) about calling to schedule a second date in a month, I would've had over 4 face-to-face encounters with another man.
> 
> This is assuming I am "dating for relationship" - and not "dating for fun," ... the face-to-face encounter(s) would strengthen bonds and confirm or reaffirm red flags, green flags, and suspicions.
> 
> ...


Why a second date in a month ? its one per week. And yeah there are players and dishonest people who are unsure of what they want, wasting people's time / toying with their minds, which is very unfortunate. 

To top that off, ghosting has developped as a mean of coping out, which only points out at very selfish tendencies ever increasing.

Which you know, is not that bad in a sense, since said individuals actually weed themselves out of your life, but it isn't helping as far as actually getting your hopes up goes. Sorry you went through that


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## INFJRoanna (Dec 20, 2012)

Sygma said:


> It's slightly manipulative to be cautious about dating and wanting to talk in person, while keeping it casual / slow?
> 
> There was a post above about the advices being in tune with my values and whatnot, to put it simply I'm literally gomez Adams irl.
> 
> ...


To each their own, it's just my view. Personally I find people being aloof with me irritating. But for contexts sake I've also never dated more than once person at any one time so I would say we're just used to different playing fields in that sense


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## Abbaladon Arc V (Jan 16, 2018)

Scoobyscoob said:


> I somewhat disagree. People may seem divided these days but most people will still appreciate those who are essentially decent people.


I think 7W8 is a good enneagram to be a best friend to an 3W4 when i read your posts.


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## Scoobyscoob (Sep 4, 2016)

Abbaladon Arc V said:


> I think 7W8 is a good enneagram to be a best friend to an 3W4 when i read your posts.


Yeah, I'd agree too.


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