# How strong is your wing?



## aconite (Mar 26, 2012)

Aconite at your service, making not-very-useful polls for fun.

So, what are your thoughts about the title question? Pick any options that apply. (See, I'm generous. It's a mulitple choice poll. Also, I'm sleep deprived and high on caffeine now, please don't hold me responsible for any bullshit I may write).

I think my wing is strong, always has been. Even though I have many traits stereotypically ascribed to 4w5 (black clothes, introversion, intellectual streak, strong Ti, being a bit careless with my image), I'm 4w3 all the way. My fixes may play a role as well (scratch that, I'm sure they do, same with Sx/So), but I believe I'm pretty assertive, adaptable, driven and focused on the outside world for a 4. I can relate to the fears of Type 3 more than I can relate to the fears of Type 5.

EDIT: clarification
strong - you can't really imagine yourself being the other wing of your type
moderate - you can relate to the secondary wing, but one is clearly more dominant
weak - you have the traits of both, yet you believe one is stronger
balanced - self-explanatory I guess


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## Shadowlight (Dec 12, 2012)

Hmm. I suppose the best way to those this is to post a comparison of the descriptions and what I relate to in both wings. 



> The 5w4 inner landscape has a certain richness that's both a blessing and a curse. From being both in awe and terrified of just about everything they've contemplated their minds are anything but "normal" in the way they perceive things. They think they will always know more about others than others will ever know about them. They feel they are impossible to get to know and the most one can see is whatever persona they exhibit. Similar to core fours they transform this into their own brand of elitism.
> 
> 5w4s being iconoclasts force their way to the bottom of things to find meaning, safety with the known and familiar be damned. They have a "counter" mentality in how they focus on the undersides and opposites of things: "It was so dark it became light"..."that abhorrent yet fascinating person". Paradoxes, illusions, the twists and turns of fate, and unexplainable phenomena are representative of "something" that underlies and supercedes current reality and makes it richer. The unseen is more important than the seen. What is intangible matters more than what is tangible. What isn't obvious matters more than what is obvious. What is counterintuitive and fits is more aesthetic and elegant and therefore more significant than what is intuitive and fits. If the pieces fit when they shouldn't it's "anything but coincidental" and can be traced to something meaningful. When something is counterintuitive and makes sense it feels like a deep insight that was divinely revealed to them, a rare and special treasure that shows itself once in a blue moon. Something that's intuitive and makes sense is a dime a dozen that can only pale in comparison.
> 
> ...


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## RepairmanMan Man (Jan 21, 2012)

I believe I was born with a 5-wing:

I was the serious, focused, withdrawn child who was happily lost in her own little world. Even as a really small child, I was like this. I was a lot more extroverted then; I loved making friends on the playground, and when my dad showed me off at parties, I'd just get insanely excited (in a good way). 

But, nonetheless, I was detached enough that I remember watching a girl kick my legs in preschool, and not feeling upset about this. I asked her why she was doing it, because I was curious; I remember studying the pain and bruises as an intellectual phenomenon. Didn't strike me as anything to be upset about.

More recently, I've acquired a lot of 7y-ness; I've become scattered, frenetic, and have come to realize that a major theme in my life is "moving on to the next cool thing". So, I totally buy the "both wings" theory, and I'm pretty sure I'm about balanced between the two.

Either that, or it's all in my head.


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## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

So strong, I'm baffled I even considered 4w5. I am *nothing *like a 4w5, and everything like a 4w3. I was just so in denial about it; I have an intense and passionate love-hate relationship with it right now. The sex is amazing though.


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## voicetrocity (Mar 31, 2012)

I voted: *"Weak recently"
*I feel that I had a much stronger connection to 7 as a child than I do currently. Now, there are times I look at my behaviors/descriptions and have the urge to change my wing to 9- thus why I don't have any wing specification by my name on here.


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## Inguz (Mar 10, 2012)

I voted moderate, has always been. 

I'm certainly introverted and wasn't all that interested in my peers as a kid. Instead I focused on things I found interesting, like animals, dinosaurs etc. I can be detached and analytical, but as far as motivation goes I'm a 6w7. I remember what I teach myself, but the reason that I read and learn different things is to keep up my excitement and curiosity. While I do place great value on knowledge, it's not something that I need in order to interact with the world. I'm drawn to knowledge, but the desire for excitement or pleasure can easily replace the knowledge-gathering with trivial things. It recently became obvious to me that I rather escape in to distractions to avoid painful feelings rather than detach from them.


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## Doll (Sep 6, 2012)

I voted moderate recently, because after losing a promotion at work I suddenly become aware of just how important my self-image/success was... and it shocked me a little bit (4w3 by the way - and I also considered a 5 wing, lols).


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

I have pretty balanced wings.


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## Cassieopeia (Jan 9, 2012)

It's so strong that when I told my mom about my core type (9) she was like "what?!?" and then 9w8 "oooh, that explains it".

I'm pretty sure it's the most paradoxical too. I really did not understand why I acted and felt in such opposite ways until I figured out my type. It explained so much.


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## sodden (Jul 20, 2009)

I don't know how to vote, ha ha. Sometimes my five wing seems so strong it could be my core type, sometimes it doesn't seem like I have any wings at all, all that matters is the four (I would say this is the case most of the time, actually). Sometimes, though, my three side is glaringly apparent and I wonder if my wings are balanced. 

If forced to pick a wing, however, I have to say it's definitely five.


EDIT: I decided to go with moderate, always has been. Seems the most accurate.


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## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

My wing (4) is almost as strong as my main (5). 

Yup, hello, H. R. Giger and Pan's Labyrinth and Dark City and such... all that is my life. I experience beauty too, but for me light and dark, bitter and sweet, beauty and ugliness are all put in the same baggie of Shake and Bake so as to coat my daily pork chop.

As a 5w4, I identify far more with Fours than with the 5w6's -- the latter seem almost like they are different creatures at times.

@_Shadowlight_: The 5w4 description you posted above is uncanny in its accuracy for me. About half of what you underlined in 5w6 also applies to me (I think constantly about everything, I'm self-revealing, and I'm insatiably curious), but much of that description doesn't really sound much like me. I also do have a strong tendency to err on the side of seeing patterns that might not exist, but I try hard to test them anyway as I can, to make sure I'm not just imagining things.


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## sodden (Jul 20, 2009)

Jennywocky said:


> I experience beauty too, but for me light and dark, bitter and sweet, beauty and ugliness are all put in the same baggie of Shake and Bake so as to coat my daily pork chop.


Oooh, yeah, me too. Very, very much so.


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## Shadowlight (Dec 12, 2012)

Jennywocky said:


> My wing (4) is almost as strong as my main (5).
> 
> Yup, hello, H. R. Giger and Pan's Labyrinth and Dark City and such... all that is my life. I experience beauty too, but for me light and dark, bitter and sweet, beauty and ugliness are all put in the same baggie of Shake and Bake so as to coat my daily pork chop.
> 
> ...


I suppose my 4-wing may be a bit stronger than expected - as is evidenced by one of my posts from yesterday:



Shadowlight said:


> @_Mizmar_
> 
> I'm very visual in my expressions, so I'm going to respond with this and a few words:
> 
> ...


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## madhatter (May 30, 2010)

I think my 6-wing is very strong. I even contemplated 6w5 as my type for a while. I can see myself as just 5, with no wings, or 5w6, but not 5w4. 4 is actually the one type that I have the hardest time understanding. While I don't feel completely alien from my 5 siblings, I do see a marked difference between the two. 

I read through the description that @Shadowlight posted, and I'm pretty much the opposite: identifying to almost everything related to 5w6, and only a phrase or two of 5w4.



> 5w4... their own brand of elitism.
> 
> [snip]
> 
> 5w4s ... have a bias towards seeing underlying patterns that fit together aesthetically and elegantly as more real and therefore closer to the truth. They see a plethora of nonrandom things that just happen to line up towards a single conclusion as evidence of some "higher meaning" to support their conclusion, or even an indication of fate.


I'm the worst kind of snob.

And unlike the 5w6 description says, I do believe in fate. 



> 5w6s see themselves as being fundamentally apart from others due to their oddness. They aspire to be one of society's foremost thinkers. They tend to be more awed at a world that never ceases to provide them with something to look into further. They are natural investigators who take the initiative to enthusiastically debate and discuss with others how they see the world. They tend to be more self-revealing and more emotionally detached than their 5w4 siblings. They have more of an uneasy truce with their emotions. On average they less sociable than 5w4s. While they also think there is more to them than meets the eye they feel more awkward about showing others this.
> 
> The 5w6 inner landscape is one of limitless curiousity, arguably the most of the eighteen subtypes. They've thought a lot about the world and the nature of things with an unrivaled specificity. They've seemingly thought about everything at one point or another from the complex to the simple. They've looked further into things than most others. As a result they feel they have an understanding of the way things are in the world that others don't. Others haven't examined things to the extent that they have. They think most people don't understand them and aren't likely to put in the effort to do so.
> 
> ...


The bolded part in the end here...I also believe this applies to me as well, even though I also believe in fate, like stated above. I see it as two opposing views I hold at once. But I'm not overtaxed by the cognitive dissonance. I'll use a cards reference. I believe there's a hand shuffling the deck and each of us has to live with the cards dealt to us, but how we play that hand is entirely up to us. A strange combination of fate and free will.


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## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

madhatter said:


> The bolded part in the end here...I also believe this applies to me as well, even though I also believe in fate, like stated above. I see it as two opposing views I hold at once. But I'm not overtaxed by the cognitive dissonance. I'll use a cards reference. I believe there's a hand shuffling the deck and each of us has to live with the cards dealt to us, but how we play that hand is entirely up to us. A strange combination of fate and free will.


That is a cool analogy. I mean, I still rather read it as a cause/effect chain (things follow each other) to me, in that the cards aren't all completely separate to begin with, there's a natural progress of what cards typically follow what cards. But there are so many things that have been decided for us, and our own choice is how to respond within those constraints.

Slight tangent, so I won't go far with it, but this comparison between 5w6 and 5w4 (since it's a common juxtaposition on online sites, I think) mirrors my personal dilemma with some form of spiritual influence in the universe vs existentialism. I tend to identify most with absurdism but at the same time still have this spiritualist bent that is looking for potential patterns of intrusive divinity -- I can't find them yet, but I still want to believe they are there. It sounds like at the least, even on the 5w6 thing, you have a bit of a mix too on a few issues.


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## Shadowlight (Dec 12, 2012)

madhatter said:


> I'll use a cards reference. I believe there's a hand shuffling the deck and each of us has to live with the cards dealt to us, but how we play that hand is entirely up to us. A strange combination of fate and free will.


I admit that it is difficult for me to believe in fate, I always fall back on the butterfly effect theory which does make a lot of logical sense to me. No event is without a preceding event that impacts it, and therefore the succeeding event is also related to it. The succeeding event becomes the predecessor to its succeeding event and so the chain of related occurrences is formed. 

The hand that you were dealt had a reason to be dealt in that way. The probability of that particular hand may seem vastly incalculable, but some factors do come into play. Where were the cards placed before the shuffling began. How many times were the cards shuffled. How were the cards shuffled? What are the chances that the cards that were dealt previously are still together despite the shuffling? All of these factors are inter-related in how you got that particular hand and that is where I find it slightly difficult to consider it "purely" chance, or "fate". 

I deviate between wanting to believe in fate, believing in it, questioning it, trying to find out how to get back to believing in it again and then the cycle continues. I also accept that without some sort of belief in factors beyond my control, I'll never attain peace of mind, but then contemplating those factors and how to control them becomes a fixation of sort. The mental processes continue regardless.


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## bearotter (Aug 10, 2012)

My wing is rock solid, totally certain. There's no ounce of 8w7 in me, I think.

However, I'm still not really, really confident about why my head type is 5w6 as opposed to 5w4. It just seems that I identify with a lot of both. This thread is convincing me to talk to people about the two 5's.


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## madhatter (May 30, 2010)

Jennywocky said:


> That is a cool analogy. I mean, I still rather read it as a cause/effect chain (things follow each other) to me, in that the cards aren't all completely separate to begin with, there's a natural progress of what cards typically follow what cards. But there are so many things that have been decided for us, and our own choice is how to respond within those constraints.


Exactly. I agree with things being cause/effect...but it's on such a grand scale, it cannot be mapped by little old me. I see the hand dealt to me as being like the family, status, and situation I was born into, my personality in a way (I think this is one part nature, one part nurture), etc. Free will comes in with me deciding what I'm going to do about it, my choices, etc. Know when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em. 



> Slight tangent, so I won't go far with it, but this comparison between 5w6 and 5w4 (since it's a common juxtaposition on online sites, I think) mirrors my personal dilemma with some form of spiritual influence in the universe vs existentialism. I tend to identify most with absurdism but at the same time still have this spiritualist bent that is looking for potential patterns of intrusive divinity -- I can't find them yet, but I still want to believe they are there. It sounds like at the least, even on the 5w6 thing, you have a bit of a mix too on a few issues.


Yes I do have a bit of mix on these issues. I haven't really read any existential philosophical works, but I've read literature written by existentialists, like Kafka and a couple others I can't remember off the top of my head. And existentialism doesn't really align with my own views. I am somewhat of a fatalist, in that I believe that there are certain things completely out of my control, and it's inevitable that I can't control them. But I believe I can control my own actions and choices. I am also what you called a spiritualist. I believe in God, and I'm always looking for His patterns in things. Sometimes I find them, sometimes I don't. Sometimes I see God's hand in something, other times part of me wants to see things as random or coincidental, even though I don't believe in coincidence either. As a 5, I have never fallen into an existential or nihlist funk, like some descriptions and profiles say that 5s can. But in some moments of doubt and questioning in my life, my thoughts have bordered on the absurdist. 

I was raised in a very Calvinist environment; not necessarily my parents, but the church that we attended. I have since moved away from and discarded many of the Calvinist views, such as the concept of the elect. I have wrestled with these concepts many times, such as fate/predeterminism vs. free will, and I still do. I don't believe that I don't have control over my own actions; I don't feel like I'm just following some cosmic script. But I also believe that God knows all things that happened and will happen. Sometimes, it's hard to reconcile these two views in my mind. But it's something my questioning and curious nature thrives on, contemplating these issues. It's my gift, and my curse.




Shadowlight said:


> I admit that it is difficult for me to believe in fate, I always fall back on the butterfly effect theory which does make a lot of logical sense to me. No event is without a preceding event that impacts it, and therefore the succeeding event is also related to it. The succeeding event becomes the predecessor to its succeeding event and so the chain of related occurrences is formed.
> 
> The hand that you were dealt had a reason to be dealt in that way. The probability of that particular hand may seem vastly incalculable, but some factors do come into play. Where were the cards placed before the shuffling began. How many times were the cards shuffled. How were the cards shuffled? What are the chances that the cards that were dealt previously are still together despite the shuffling? All of these factors are inter-related in how you got that particular hand and that is where I find it slightly difficult to consider it "purely" chance, or "fate".
> 
> I deviate between wanting to believe in fate, believing in it, questioning it, trying to find out how to get back to believing in it again and then the cycle continues. I also accept that without some sort of belief in factors beyond my control, I'll never attain peace of mind, but then contemplating those factors and how to control them becomes a fixation of sort. The mental processes continue regardless.


I understand completely, and I agree. I do believe there is a reason or meaning behind it, but sometimes what that reason is eludes me. As you can see in my above reply to Jenny, I have fixated on this subject and have put lots of thought behind it, coming from all angles in my pursuit to understand this. Continuing with card analogy, I have often wondered if the deck has been stacked. And in a way, I think it has. Is there such a thing as luck and chance? But I still believe, even with a stacked deck, I have the free will to make the best of my hand, put my energy and intellect into the game to try to insure the best outcome.


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## bearotter (Aug 10, 2012)

I'll just do this too:



> The 5w4 inner landscape has a certain richness that's both a blessing and a curse. From being both in awe and terrified of just about everything they've contemplated their minds are anything but "normal" in the way they perceive things. They think they will always know more about others than others will ever know about them. They feel they are impossible to get to know and the most one can see is whatever persona they exhibit. Similar to core fours they transform this into their own brand of elitism.
> 5w4s being iconoclasts force their way to the bottom of things to find meaning, safety with the known and familiar be damned. They have a "counter" mentality in how they focus on the undersides and opposites of things: "It was so dark it became light"..."that abhorrent yet fascinating person". Paradoxes, illusions, the twists and turns of fate, and unexplainable phenomena are representative of "something" that underlies and supercedes current reality and makes it richer. The unseen is more important than the seen. What is intangible matters more than what is tangible. What isn't obvious matters more than what is obvious. What is counterintuitive and fits is more aesthetic and elegant and therefore more significant than what is intuitive and fits. If the pieces fit when they shouldn't it's "anything but coincidental" and can be traced to something meaningful. When something is counterintuitive and makes sense it feels like a deep insight that was divinely revealed to them, a rare and special treasure that shows itself once in a blue moon. Something that's intuitive and makes sense is a dime a dozen that can only pale in comparison.
> 
> 5w4s tend to be more subjective than 5w6s. Their thinking process is less incremental and has more "illogical leaps". They search for that one angle of looking at things that magically makes everything make sense to them. They have a bias towards seeing underlying patterns that fit together aesthetically and elegantly as more real and therefore closer to the truth. They see a plethora of nonrandom things that just happen to line up towards a single conclusion as evidence of some "higher meaning" to support their conclusion, or even an indication of fate. Such a lining up of tells amidst random chaos couldn't be chance or random. There must be something there that isn't obvious but no less significant if not more so. This makes 5w4s more likely to see things that aren't there than miss things that are there. They tend to have occultic and esoteric areas of interest.
> ...


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## madhatter (May 30, 2010)

bearotter said:


> I'll just do this too:


I'd say look to 5w6 for your head-fix, although it looks like your wing might be more moderate and balanced than my own.


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