# Cannot Find My True Type...



## Lord Xephere (Jan 20, 2010)

I've been interested in the Myers Briggs type Indicator for a few years now, but after all this time, I still can't seem to figure out which cognitive functions I really use. I've always had the tendency to make up this ideal image of myself in this fantasy world due to some self esteem issues and inferiority complex, and when I take online tests my results are always biased as a result. 

I have this dilemma of what type of personality do I have, or what personality type do I want. Thinking like this is only cause more problems for me. I'm an INFJ, or at least I think so. I am not completely aware of what cognitive functions I use in everyday life, but I prefer to stick with INFJ because I see a bit of myself in the descriptions but there are certain aspects of this type that I'm not sure that I have, but just sound appealing and make me feel unique. 

The feeling of being boring, ordinary or mundane is what gets to me. There is nothing that makes me truly unique as a person, so I have to make up something myself. This causes me to manipulate myers briggs tests to give me my ideal type rather than my real type. With this test, I can actually pretend to be something I'm not to feel better about myself and feel special.

As a result, I'm struggling to find my actually MBTI type. Chances are I am REALLY an INFJ, but then again I can't tell if it's actually my type or just me pretending to be one.

Sorry I didn't get to include enough information about myself. I will post more when I get a chance. I don't get very much time on the computer anymore....


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## Fiamma (Jan 4, 2012)

Hi :happy: (sorry if my english is not good) ! 
I feel symphatetic with you because I have had difficulty in finding my type due to the fact that I tend to answer (in tests) as I would like to be (and so the results come out wrong).
I can suggest you the process I used to try to figure it out, don't know if it will work for you but you can try 
First read this topic http://personalitycafe.com/cognitiv...iled-descriptions-each-function-attitude.html
then copy-past the cognitive-function descriptions in Word (or anything else) and delete the type every function is linked, like this :

FROM THIS -> Ne, or extroverted iNtuition, is dominant for ENxP, secondary for INxP, tertiary for ESxJ and inferior for ISxJ.
TO THIS -> Ne, or extroverted iNtuition.

Then read all the description and underline the sentences you feel describe more what you really are; after this you will be able to see what function you use more and what less, order them like this :

I use more ...
Sometimes ...
Not at all ...

and you will see the possible combinations :wink:


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## Dreamer777 (Jan 15, 2011)

Try reading through the articles on the INFJ Forum, (not the regular posts, this is articles section) 

“Was That Really Me?” – How Stress Brings Out the INFJ's Hidden Personality

http://personalitycafe.com/infj-articles/68718-really-me-how-stress-brings-out-infjs-hidden-personality.html

and here is the link to the list of articles, that was just one from the list, but that one really helps alot to identify type as well

INFJ Articles


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## Ludi (Dec 25, 2011)

Lord Xephere said:


> Sorry I didn't get to include enough information about myself. I will post more when I get a chance. I don't get very much time on the computer anymore....




Yo, hit us up with some material so we can work on it! :-D


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## Dreamer777 (Jan 15, 2011)

Lord Xephere said:


> I've been interested in the Myers Briggs type Indicator for a few years now, but after all this time, I still can't seem to figure out which cognitive functions I really use. I've always had the tendency to make up this ideal image of myself in this fantasy world due to some self esteem issues and inferiority complex, and when I take online tests my results are always biased as a result.
> 
> I have this dilemma of what type of personality do I have, or what personality type do I want. Thinking like this is only cause more problems for me. I'm an INFJ, or at least I think so. I am not completely aware of what cognitive functions I use in everyday life, but I prefer to stick with INFJ because I see a bit of myself in the descriptions but there are certain aspects of this type that I'm not sure that I have, but just sound appealing and make me feel unique.
> 
> ...


and by the way, i totally believe you are a true INFJ by listening to all what you say here! (and your avatar and user name are very INFJ also! a picture paints 1000 words, and a user name can sometimes tell alot too, yours does


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## Lord Xephere (Jan 20, 2010)

Thanks for the links. I do think that I have inferior Se because I do alot of the things mentioned in the article about the INFJ under stress. I like to gather facts on things I'm interested in, I'm clumsy and unaware of my surroundings, and I make careless mistakes. Sometimes I can overindulge in my Se to relax (eating sweets, listening to music, taking walks etc..). I also cannot stand loud noises and any type of sensory overload. 

I have also gone through the functions and the most confusing one to me is Fi/Fe. I seem to not really have much of a sense of self and never felt like I've had my own opinions on things. Through my childhood, I just agreed with whatever my parents said. It wasn't really until my mid to late teens that I started to analyse things for myself and think about how I felt about them. I am very empathetic and can easily tell how others feel and why they feel a certain way. I have also found that other peoples moods have an effect on me. When the people around me are happy/upbeat, I will feel the same way, but if someone is down or upset I also absorb this. It's almost like I feel what they are feeling.

There are also certain things that I am very touchy about and take it personally when someone speaks badly about them. Either I will be very protective of a certain social group or culture that I feel has been scapegoated or rejected by mainstream society. I get defensive when I hear people around me talking badly about them. I am also protective of things I like, especially certain music, movies and television shows. If someone says something derogatory about something, I get very defensive. It's almost like they are a part of me. I also have certain things that I feel a connection with and things that I passionately dislike. I have an idealized version of things in my head and tend to imagine things being the way I wished they were, including myself (as you can tell from reading my post above).

I am pretty sure that I am an intuitive type but cannot figure out if I am Ni or Ne. I am an avid daydreamer and will make up stories in my head constantly. I am at the place where I think it's an addiction because it interferes with certain areas of my life. I have this ability, yet for some reason I struggle to write my thoughts down on paper. I tend to be a bit flighty, absent minded, and scatterbrained, and unproductive which has ruined my academic life. I have always thought I had some kind of ADHD.

I also tend to get some pretty insightful thoughts at certain times that seem to come out of nowhere. Alot of times they are unrelated to anything in the present moment. I've also noticed that I figure things out slowly, but sometimes when I get a small piece of information, everything just "clicks" in my brain Sort of like an "aha" moment. The puzzle is solved and everything has fallen into place. I also try to see what is really going on behind the scenes and am good at finding hidden meanings, and messages in things and also get "vibes" that I cannot really verbally describe.

From reading the article on cognitive functions, I seem to use Ni/Fe/Fi/Ne/Ti/Si/Se in that order. I'm not very good with slightest bit of practical common sense and logical thinking (maybe that's because of underdeveloped Thinking or Sensing??).

Here are the results from my cognitive functions test: 


Your Cognitive Functions:
Introverted Intuition (Ni) |||||||||||||||||| 8.34
Extroverted Feeling (Fe) |||||||||||||||||| 8.18
Extroverted Intuition (Ne) ||||||||||||||| 6.65
Introverted Feeling (Fi) ||||||||||||||| 6.61
Introverted Thinking (Ti) ||||||||||||| 5.99
Introverted Sensation (Si) |||||||| 3.47
Extroverted Thinking (Te) |||||||| 3.24
Extroverted Sensation (Se) ||| 0.8

Your Introverted Intuition (Ni) is very developed.
Your Extroverted Feeling (Fe) is very developed.
Your Extroverted Intuition (Ne) is moderate.
Your Introverted Sensation (Si) is moderate.
Your Introverted Thinking (Ti) is moderate.
Your Extroverted Thinking (Te) is moderate.
Your Introverted Feeling (Fi) is moderate.
Your Extroverted Sensation (Se) is poorly developed.


I hope this helps...


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## Dreamer777 (Jan 15, 2011)

Lord Xephere said:


> Thanks for the links. I do think that I have inferior Se because I do alot of the things mentioned in the article about the INFJ under stress. I like to gather facts on things I'm interested in, I'm clumsy and unaware of my surroundings, and I make careless mistakes. Sometimes I can overindulge in my Se to relax (eating sweets, listening to music, taking walks etc..). I also cannot stand loud noises and any type of sensory overload.
> 
> I have also gone through the functions and the most confusing one to me is Fi/Fe. I seem to not really have much of a sense of self and never felt like I've had my own opinions on things. Through my childhood, I just agreed with whatever my parents said. It wasn't really until my mid to late teens that I started to analyse things for myself and think about how I felt about them. I am very empathetic and can easily tell how others feel and why they feel a certain way. I have also found that other peoples moods have an effect on me. When the people around me are happy/upbeat, I will feel the same way, but if someone is down or upset I also absorb this. It's almost like I feel what they are feeling.
> 
> ...


Everything you say and even your scores are all INFJ! Se is your inferior function, therefore that's why you score the lowest on Se. The other functions are shadow functions. INFJ is Ni Fe Ti Se, shadow functions are Ne Fi Te Si, Si you will probably not be able to grasp what it means, it's called the "devilish" function in your type. Have you read up on Si yet?

You are soooooooooooooooooo INFJ!! LOL  Have you hung out on their Forum yet?


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## Dreamer777 (Jan 15, 2011)

Here is a post of the functions i think will help you alot too, you can look at Fi and Fe there also:

http://personalitycafe.com/cognitive-functions/24032-intro-function-theory-more-detailed-descriptions-each-function-attitude.html


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## Ludi (Dec 25, 2011)

Lord Xephere said:


> From reading the article on cognitive functions, I seem to use Ni/Fe/Fi/Ne/Ti/Si/Se in that order. I'm not very good with slightest bit of practical common sense and logical thinking (maybe that's because of underdeveloped Thinking or Sensing??).
> 
> Here are the results from my cognitive functions test:
> 
> ...



According to the theory, you should be developing introverted thinking by now. It will be a break, and a critical moment. Do not be distressed, see it as a helping hand to make ends meet. What were your best and worst subjects in school?


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## Lord Xephere (Jan 20, 2010)

Thanks Dreamer for all of your help! A couple things I forgot to mention, and I'm not sure if these are related to type, is that I am also very shy, and even though I can easily empathize with people, I have trouble approaching and interacting with them. I think I have social anxiety and I sometimes think I have Avoidant personality disorder because I have started to completely avoid social situations out of fear of being rejected, humiliated and embarrassed. As a result, I don't really have a social life. I'm trying to get help for this...

I also chronically put things off also out of fear of failure (and maybe success even), which is why I'm not really living up to my potential. I have great ideas of what I would like to do, but I don't start them because I'm not sure of if I will enjoy it, or how successful I might be with it. In school I've always been a bit of an underachiever, and would not finish my homework assignments. This is mainly because there were certain subjects that would not interest me, or were difficult to me and I would just zone out during class. I would just not do the homework or start doing it and give up halfway through it. I would get mediocre grades and that would make me feel like I was stupid or inadequate.

I'm also known for not finishing anything I start. I have a feeling that people tend to see me as lazy, unproductive, illogical, sloppy and disorganized which has led me in the past to think of myself as a P type instead of a J, but I think this is just based on stereotypes.

I also learn the way I described in the post above, however, there are also many times where I have gotten confused pretty easily, at the simplest things, which has always made me feel stupid. I'm not sure if this is a learning disability or another problem that I have. 

Those are just a few character flaws I have. I'm not sure of whether this changes my type or not....


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## Ludi (Dec 25, 2011)

Lord Xephere said:


> Thanks Dreamer for all of your help! A couple things I forgot to mention, and I'm not sure if these are related to type, is that I am also very shy, and even though I can easily empathize with people, I have trouble approaching and interacting with them. I think I have social anxiety and I sometimes think I have Avoidant personality disorder because I have started to completely avoid social situations out of fear of being rejected, humiliated and embarrassed. As a result, I don't really have a social life. I'm trying to get help for this...
> 
> I also chronically put things off also out of fear of failure (and maybe success even), which is why I'm not really living up to my potential. I have great ideas of what I would like to do, but I don't start them because I'm not sure of if I will enjoy it, or how successful I might be with it. In school I've always been a bit of an underachiever, and would not finish my homework assignments. This is mainly because there were certain subjects that would not interest me, or were difficult to me and I would just zone out during class. I would just not do the homework or start doing it and give up halfway through it. I would get mediocre grades and that would make me feel like I was stupid or inadequate.
> 
> ...




Made me think...Hold it...What are your aspirations, Lord Xephere?


By the way, your enneagram is 4w5 / 9w1 ? Which one is it? How do you relate to enneagram 1?


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## Lord Xephere (Jan 20, 2010)

Dreamer777 said:


> Here is a post of the functions i think will help you alot too, you can look at Fi and Fe there also:
> 
> http://personalitycafe.com/cognitive-functions/24032-intro-function-theory-more-detailed-descriptions-each-function-attitude.html


Fe and Fi are very difficult to me. I fit all of the characteristics of an Fi user, empathetic, good at picking up emotional cues, wanting to thought of as unique rather than ordinary, not wanting to change my identity for anyone, etc. But I've noticed that when it comes to ethics, I will pick them up from any external or outside source, my family in my case. I would like to be a non conformist and not be what others want me to be, but if I am with a group of people that I can relate to or find important, I will try to blend in and conform to them.

I always try to be kind and polite to people, even though I may look awkward and creepy when I do this. For these reasons I would say Fe, but also strong Fi, if that's possible.



Ludi said:


> According to the theory, you should be developing introverted thinking by now. It will be a break, and a critical moment. Do not be distressed, see it as a helping hand to make ends meet. What were your best and worst subjects in school?


That's true. I've always been notoriously illogical, despite being good at finding inconsistencies in people (maybe that's Fe+Ti?). As for school, I think my best subjects were English (or anything having to do with writing and language) any Psychology course, Computer Science, Video Production, Art and History. 

Math was always the subject that caused problems for me. I hated it with a passion. I had trouble understanding it and I had no interest in it. Most of it was just frustrating, and tedious to me. Especially some of the Algebra classes I've had. I also struggled with Biology, P.E. (that was always tough for me as I was never that in touch with my senses), and Political Science (I failed it the first time, but retook it and did much better).


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## Lord Xephere (Jan 20, 2010)

Ludi said:


> Made me think...Hold it...What are your aspirations, Lord Xephere?
> 
> 
> By the way, your enneagram is 4w5 / 9w1 ? Which one is it? How do you relate to enneagram 1?


I would like to be a novelist, musician and maybe even a cartoonist (once I learn to draw). I've been all over the place since my adolescence. When I was younger I aspired to be a radio personality, either a talk show host or a DJ. I wanted to go on the radio because I felt that it would help me introduce new ideas and/or music to people, voice my opinions and expose the truth. I decided not to do that because I doubted whether I had the personality for radio. I'm very quiet, shy and awkward and radio people are prefered to be Extraverted, outgoing social butterflies. Lately I've been trying to write some short stories and start composing and producing my own music. I've also thought about learning to draw and starting my own manga. I would like to do something creative that captures peoples imaginations and inspires people. 

I'm confused about my enneagram type actually, and thought "well, maybe I could be both of those types, since I seem to relate to both of them". I relate to type 4 because I have an ideal image of myself and who I should be, and would like to be thought of as unique, different and creative. I relate to type 9 because I'm pretty laid back and sort of tend to go along to get along to avoid conflict. I need to have a harmonious external environment. Type 9's seem to have no sense of self, sense they pretty much go with the flow of the people around them, which also sounds a bit like me. I'm leaning to type 4 because of the tendency to dwell on my feelings other than deny them. Type 9 will try to cheer themselves up rather than dwell on their negative thoughts by doing things like listening to sad music. 

I thought I relate better to type 9w1 than 9w8 because I am a pretty big perfectionist and can be rather hard on myself at times. I am also very curious intellectually and interested in things like philosophy, psychology and metaphysics. I also have this idealized view of people and the way things should be in society (I also idealize myself, like I mentioned above with type 4).

This is what I got from reading the descriptions. However, I could be a little off...


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## Ludi (Dec 25, 2011)

Lord Xephere said:


> This is what I got from reading the descriptions. However, I could be a little off...


 
Well, the enneagram can be important data. Do the following: Go to Type 1 Enneagram Type Description |9types.com

and carefully read the descriptions of *1*, *4* and *9*. Then put them in order of growing likeliness. 



Also, I'll provide you with a short description I wrote about the two types.


*The INF types* 

Both can be well described by these three words : _idealistic_, _compassionate_ and _introspective_. 

But what are their differences?

*
INFP* 

- Their main concern is raising their self-consciousness about the values that define themselves ; strives to keep their moral integrity at all times.

- May be frustrated and depressed for not being able to find a niche, however small and cut-off from mainstream society, a saving grace, an outlet for them to express their inner, true selves, for they deem the world too judgemental, unimaginative, unforgiving and impersonal (Note: Art is a favourite outlet among INFPs).

- Their ability to come up with ideas, especially in the form of metaphors and analogies, is a mean for them to support their values. 

- The INFP, with the introverted feeling function (Fi), gives more weight to finding their sense of identity and peace of mind , not caring too much about preaching about their values or engaging in promoting them.

- The inner world of the INFP can be best described as a small, cosy cabin or room, where the self is surrounded by objects representing the values they hold the highest. 



*INFJ* 

- What they most seek is to expand their own understandings of the world ; then, they focus on presenting their ideas in more socially conventional ways to raise the collective consciousness about them.

- They are most frustrated and depressed not by the «boring, colourless world» as the INFP would put it, but because of their highly eccentric, other-wordly inner self that brings up abstract understandings too difficult to represent in more conventional ways; they yearn to find a niche that may finally enable them to bring the benefits of their visions to the public at large and be appreciated for it. 

- For the INFJ, the values sponsored by the mainstream society (Fe) are the vehicle for their own ideas (Ni), not the other way around. So, unlike the INFP that desires to be stimulated by, say, conversations with people of their own intellectual level, having no need to 'talk down' to others, the INFJ is more geared towards making _their_ ideas more accessible to _everyone _(with not much interest in being intellectually stimulated by others)_, _eventhough that translation may prove to be a very hard and thankless task.


- The inner world of the INFJ (Ni), on the contrary, seems much larger and abstract, not very predictible, somewhat dark and hazy , which leads it to being compared to an ocean under a storm.




Also...

Have a look at the description of three personality disorders : *Avoidant, Schizotypal* , *Dependent *and *Narcissistic* (though it may be somewhat confusing and harsh reading). Select the one you relate the most with.


Personality Subtypes Summary



All of this are clues that can greatly help us estimate the probability of you being one or another type. 


I apologize if this all seems overwhelming. It's just that I suspect that you may very well be an INFP, why not? 
I'd go for a sense of closure.


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## Fiamma (Jan 4, 2012)

For the enneagram, have you tried the test of PersonalityCafè ? 
For me you sound like an INFJ, and also your test results suggest that


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## Fiamma (Jan 4, 2012)

Ludi said:


> It's just that I suspect that you may very well be an INFP, why not?
> I'd go for a sense of closure.


Could be ...


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## Dreamer777 (Jan 15, 2011)

Lord Xephere said:


> Thanks Dreamer for all of your help! A couple things I forgot to mention, and I'm not sure if these are related to type, is that I am also very shy, and even though I can easily empathize with people, I have trouble approaching and interacting with them. I think I have social anxiety and I sometimes think I have Avoidant personality disorder because I have started to completely avoid social situations out of fear of being rejected, humiliated and embarrassed. As a result, I don't really have a social life. I'm trying to get help for this...
> 
> I also chronically put things off also out of fear of failure (and maybe success even), which is why I'm not really living up to my potential. I have great ideas of what I would like to do, but I don't start them because I'm not sure of if I will enjoy it, or how successful I might be with it. In school I've always been a bit of an underachiever, and would not finish my homework assignments. This is mainly because there were certain subjects that would not interest me, or were difficult to me and I would just zone out during class. I would just not do the homework or start doing it and give up halfway through it. I would get mediocre grades and that would make me feel like I was stupid or inadequate.
> 
> ...


You definately show strong INFJ in what you say, sure you have some Fi in you, and may show a few similarities to INFP's that way, but your Fe overrides your Fi by far, and you are filled with strong Ni, there is no doubt you are an INFJ. No 2 people are alike even when they have the same personality type, each has different percentage ratios of scores on the cognitive functions, different upbringings, backgrounds, cultures, experiences and different ages and stages in life. But we do identify dominantly with a certain personality type. 

You are dominant Ni, and your Fe is way stronger than your Fi. INFP's are not strong in Ni. The "devilish" function for INFJ's is Si. Read about Si again and see how much you do or don't understand Si, as an INFJ, you should not be able to really understand Si that much. Just as me as an INFP, i don't really understand Ti too well, it is the INFP's "devilish" function. Te is the INFP's inferior function that we use under stress in a disfunctional way. If you would like to read about that click here: http://personalitycafe.com/infp-articles/76770-recognizing-inferior-function-ifps.html


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## Ludi (Dec 25, 2011)

Lord Xephere said:


> This is what I got from reading the descriptions. However, I could be a little off...



So, what have we found out? 


By the way, could you explain your avatar?


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## Lord Xephere (Jan 20, 2010)

Sorry it took me a while, I couldn't really get a chance to reply today...

Ludi, I read the descriptions of those enneagram types. I'm going to post them below, with the specific traits of each type that I relate to in *Bold*. The ones that are VERY relatable are bolded and colored *Blue *

Type 1


> The Perfectionist (the One)
> 
> Perfectionists are realistic, conscientious, and principled. They strive to live up to their high ideals.
> 
> ...


Type 4


> The Romantic (the Four)
> 
> Romantics have sensitive feelings and are warm and perceptive.
> 
> ...


Type 9


> The Peacemaker (the Nine)
> 
> Peacemakers are receptive, good-natured, and supportive. They seek union with others and the world around them.
> 
> ...


So I guess these will go in the order of 1>4>9. 9 being most like me.

I have also read up on the personality disorders, and I have found that the descriptions about Avoidant Personality Disorder fits me to a T. I have almost all of the traits like, fears about being embarrased or rejected, or making a fool out of myself, feeling inadequate, using an inner fantasy world as a way to cope with the loneliness. I would say that I relate very much to both Avoidant and Dependent even after reading the information in the Personality Subtypes link. I probably relate to Avoidant more, especially the Conflicted, Self-deserting, and Hypersensitive traits. I also relate to the most of the Dependent traits, especially the Accommodating, and Disquieted traits. 

I think I relate to Avoidant the most out of the three.


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## Lord Xephere (Jan 20, 2010)

Also Ludi, you wanted to know about my Avatar 

My avatar is actually the character Chrono from the anime Chrono Crusade. He is a demon, but he's not evil. I chose him as my avatar because he reminds me of myself in the since that he's kind, compassionate, loyal and quiet. He's also how I imagine myself to look like as an anime character (when he's in full demon form, like in my avatar...most of the show he's in kid form). Sounds a bit silly....I know.....

The avatar also fits my username very well and it sort of looks like the quiet yet fierce type of hero that I also daydream about being.

You can read about the show here if you've never heard of it before: Wikipedia: Chrono Crusade


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## Ludi (Dec 25, 2011)

I looked over the parts of the profiles you bolded and, if we had to choose terms to describe your temperament, I figure these would be fitting:

_Sensitive, likes appreciation but dislikes weight of responsabilities , perfectionist, prone to self-depreciation and feelings of shame, wants to be unique but at the same time feels inadequate, the odd-one-out, empathetic, feels need for emotional support, fear of abandon and rejection, prone to moodiness and melancholy._ 

Now, by your own admission, Type 9 of the enneagram- the Peace Maker - followed by Type 4 - The Artist- suit you better ; the Avoidant personality also reflects your being. 

The reason I asked you to compare types 1, 4 and 9 is because *1* correlates better with *Ni* in jungian cognitive functions ; *4* with *Fi* ; and *9* with *Fi + Ne* (a unique duo). So those numbers greatly suggest *Fi + Ne.* Also, the *avoidant* traits are , in principle, much more likely among *INFPs* ; the *dependent* and *narcissistic* ones relate more to the INFJs.


I'll leave another question : how do you relate to your family? Parents, siblings? How did you get on at school? Have family and friends influenced your behaviour in any way that you are aware of? For instance, setting pressure to achieve this or that goal or to behave a certain way or cultivate a certain kind of attitude?...



Lord Xephere said:


> My avatar is actually the character Chrono from the anime Chrono Crusade. He is a demon, but he's not evil. I chose him as my avatar because he reminds me of myself in the since that he's kind, compassionate, loyal and quiet. He's also how I imagine myself to look like as an anime character (when he's in full demon form, like in my avatar...most of the show he's in kid form). Sounds a bit silly....I know.....
> 
> The avatar also fits my username very well and it sort of looks like the quiet yet fierce type of hero that I also daydream about being.
> 
> You can read about the show here if you've never heard of it before: Wikipedia: Chrono Crusade



Is it somehow related to the Chrono Trigger / Cross videogames series? I could not find the description of your avatar, do you know where that can be found? Or ... you mentioned three qualities _kind, quiet , loyal .*.. *_Hmm...Loyal to whom? 



I'll leave a follow-up for the INFP description I have posted. See if it relates to you.


_The INFP is perhaps the most sensitive of the 16 types. They can be quite upset by criticism, especially to the kind which seems to come out of everyone , that they are even sensitive to the criticisms not hurled at themselves! In this regard, they may aspire and appear to be the devil's advocate for the attacked and the bullied, in so far as to become activists for the causes of the less fortunate and less numerous or powerful, or even towards those everyone else deems as 'abnormal, freaks'. The quality they most often strive to grow within themselves is compassion ; thus they can easily relate to the mottos «Live and let live» and «nobody shoyld tell someone else how to feel about any one thing». Despite their innate sensitivity, they may very well hide their feelings, especially from more cynical and judgmental beings, but release them and show their true nature amongst the ones they consider pure-hearted. The insensitive and indifferent façade they put on is a form of defense, in order to protect them from the stagnation they would be under if they always sought approbation and verdicts concerning their ideals and dreams. That is why many INFPs may not relate well with most adults and their societies, but relate much better with children and animals. On the other hand, they sometimes hold on to their opinions and be very wrong-headed when faced with inevitable and constant criticism. 

As the Fi is their most dominant cognitive function, they may be very self-conscious of principles, values and objects they most esteem and what their opinions are on almost everything. However, by the force of that function, they tend to be unaware and disregard / disvalue group or social rules and conventions, especially if they are of the hard-headed, oppressive sort. Also, by means of the Fi, they tend to take things very personally and attach / involve themselves in plots and with its participants (on television, literature, and so on). They are most interested in personal stories, the inner life of the characters is what absorbs them most, and they can easily and intuitively suppose someone's whole emotional make-up (and are usually very accurate at it too). Fi is an inner judgment function, which means that, like their INTP counterparts who are wont to take an otherwise exciting idea and make it very dry indeed, the INFP usually imbibes perceptions with their own subjections, «romanticizing» them, so to speak. They nurture a relentless fantasy life inside them, being sometimes so self-absorbed that it is not uncommon to hear them say they have always been living inside a bubble, a great divide between their own peaceful and accomodating world and the harsh outside world for as far they can remember. It is important to distinguish the pair Fi / Fe as to their workings as dominant tendencies. The introverted feeling seeks to help others in a selfless manner, for they «would not be able to live with themselves» if they did not ; should they values be really set within them, they may not even wish for outer rewards, not even emotional ones. Due to this integrity, they are rarely backstabbers or insincere with their feelings. Fe stands in contrast, as they __do expect some positive feedback and recognition (even if it is not admitted that they are not __that selfless). Another difference is that, in social situations, Fi rarely encourages to pass a hasty judgment, not before calculating their peer's state of mind. They are not averse to interacting with people just to size them up or to use their judgements about the person as part of a bigger scheme, hence many of them becoming notable poets, novelists, teachers and psychologists. The Fe as used by the IFJs, in comparison, to incentivate them to use their in-depth knowledge and mastery in one field to help people out of sympathy, not empathy, without need to make any deep interpersonal connection, providing others with what they __need, according to the judger, not always with what __want deep down ( they may make good health care workers therefore). 

The INFP's auxiliary Ne, if well-developed, enables them to explore and gain useful perceptions within the interpersonal and intrapersonal realm. They are then able to use their imagination in a playful and creative way. Seemingly effortless erudition is also likely, if they manage to stick to their tasks and interests. Due to this function, INFPs may appear to outsiders quite loose, liberal, laid-back, scattered, to the point of irresponsability, but, inside, they are very aware of their own rules, and if needed, they may become rigid and inflexible, as they do not believe in compromising their values. If they appear indolent and warm outside, one may be surprised that they can be quite judging internally ; secretely, they may come to the conclusion that they are morally superior to most around them. 

The Fi - Ne axis also explains why they seem inconsistent logically and wishy-washy when making decisions ; their outer intuition may force them to postpone judgement and go over many possibilities, something that may come in the form of a monologue in which nothing is really stated as fact (this can confuse interlocutors). Their carelessness with logic may also make their discourses hard to follow. They probably find the hard, one-size-fits-all rules of logic very distasteful and therefore have trouble applying them mentally to any situation, from logical games, mathematics and even problems in their own lives. This difficulty is down to the repressed Te; likewise, they probably have horror of the power of materialism and faceless corporations and its oppression of individualism, diversity and harmony. 

Finally, the way their functions are stacked up makes them able (and willing) of working independently for little material rewards, if it means autonomy, creativity and a small outlet to publish their works to a devoted few. They are not usually interested in worldwide approval or the application value of their productions to the general public, so they have a preference for careers of entertainment, that enable one-on-one communication and inspiration, rather than an 'utilitarian' career. _


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## Metanoia (Nov 21, 2011)

@Lord Xephere

@Dreamer777 asked me to take a look at this thread, because you think you're INFJ but aren't sure yet. I read through most of it, and I can identify with most, if not all, of what you're saying. For the sake of speed, I'll highlight the pieces that seemed most resonant to me:

1) Overly perfectionistic, to the point where you fear doing something because you are already fear failing at it. This is a tough one, that I imagine many people who are perfectionists, introverted and over-analytical could struggle with. I definitely felt this way when I was younger, but have overcome it a bit. 

2) Crippling shyness/avoidant behavior. I've read that shyness is an independent trait from Type and Introversion, so this alone isn't indicative of being INFJ. I did experience this a lot when I was younger, the fear of being embarrassed or having attention put on me. However, this could be part of a phase, and once you get more exposure to social situations, and become more confident in yourself, you'll find it less debilitating. 

With the personality subtypes that someone posted, I could've identified as Avoidant in the past, but now I'm much more Schizoid. However, I don't look at these evaluations as "diagnoses" or confirmation of an illness, rather a preference to how I think about and interact in the world. Just because you feel you're shy, to the point of avoiding social situations, doesn't mean that you're 'sick' or should be diagnosed with a psychological disorder. I am stressing this caveat, because 1) I am not a psychologist, and 2) I think that people get too hung up with having an answer, a diagnosis, which can help them describe and identify their 'unhealthy behavior' and identify with others that share it, instead of just... looking at the root causes, and allowing for the reality that we are all unique individuals with different personalities and preferences. I'd say that unless your avoidant behavior is heavily effecting your life, you shouldn't focus too closely on having a disorder, but rather work on ways you can get over your fears of social situations, which will help you lead to making friends and connections and living a fuller life (in theory). A lot of this will come with time and maturity, so don't get frustrated if it doesn't happen overnight, and don't beat yourself up if you don't push yourself hard enough now... Just try to take a measured approach to life... to put it in MBTI terms, you're Ti will become stronger and help balance out everything else. 

3) Fe/Fi - from what you describe, I'd say you're more of an Fe user. I could identify with a lot of it as well. 

Your cognitive results very closely matched my own, too. I had Ni, Fe, as well as Ne and Fi all in the top 5. Se was the lowest, and Ti was in the middle, but higher than Te. I'd say this test is another good confirmation of you being INFJ.

With Enneagram, I am not certain yet, but I'd guess that I am Type 1 as well, with either w9 or w2, which I haven't decided. I think Type 1s are even more prone to perfectionism, too. You really have to be more kind to yourself. You have to say to yourself, "I'm human, I can make mistakes, and not everything has to be perfect." Try to find the good in imperfections, both in people/things around you, and also in things you create. And keep reminding yourself to BE KIND to you, as you would be kind to others.

Anyway, that's my very cursory analysis. I hope it helps. In conclusion, I'd definitely say you're a strong candidate for INFJ, at least if you trust I was typed correctly, too.


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## Lord Xephere (Jan 20, 2010)

@Ludi, I read your description of INFP, and I relate to alot of the traits mentioned. Specifically the parts about hiding my feelings from people I think are judgmental, feeling like an outsider, and having a fantasy world while viewing the outside world as harsh. The one thing that particularly stood out to me was the part in the second paragraph where it mentioned how Fi is more likely help others in a selfless way and does not want anything in return. With me, I do ask for things in return, just not material things, money, etc. What I would like is some recognition for something that I've achieved or something that I've done for someone else. 

As far as personality disorders go, I went on Wikipedia to read more about each of them and I found that almost all of the Dependent traits also fit me very well, and there are certain parts of Narcissistic like, needing positive reinforcement and praise, unrealistic fantasies of achievements romance, intelligence, and success, jealousy, and easily hurt...other than that I don't relate to this nearly as much as Avoidant and Dependent. 

The anime that I got my avatar from is not related to Chrono Trigger. There has actually always been a big confusion about this in the anime community lol. To read about the character that's in my avatar, you can look here: Chrono Crusade - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. His name is Chrono. 

I said I thought of myself as loyal because I am very loyal to people close to me, my family/friends, etc. I would help them with anything they need and I stick by them always. I do however, have a thing where I am very protective of their feelings and do not tell them anything that will hurt them, or potentially cause any conflict or confrontation. This has always been a bit of a problem with me. I will sort of lie to them when they ask me for an honest opinion of them just so I don't have them getting upset. I also avoid speaking out, or rebelling against them also because I can't have the tension or conflict with them and there is the disturbing thought that they will abandon/disown me.

@elemental Thanks for your input! It's good to hear from an INFJ. The avoidant behavior is frustrating and it is pretty debilitating as it is preventing me from making more friends. But you are right. One thing I've always done is focus on having a disorder, which I shouldn't do. I would always try to figure out what disorder I had because I was always sure that I had one I just didn't know which one. Then I came across aviodant personality disorder and it pretty much provided a good reason of why I act the way I act. I always liked to "label" or categorize myself as something that sets me apart from other people, which is another reason for this. That's why Myers-Briggs appeals so much to me. I just focus too much on putting a label on myself. 

The perfectionism also gets to me. At times I just feel that I can't deal with my shortcomings. When I make a mistake I beat myself up for it BADLY. However, I only do that when other people are upset at me for it. If noone said anything to me about it, I probably wouldn't care. I don't like losing at one-on-one competitions or videogames, or when other people correct me because I find it humiliating and it makes me feel inferior to them. Alot of these things have led to self-deprecating behavior because I tend to perceive my human imperfections as inadequacies that are unacceptable if they are an inconvenience for others. I put a lot of weight on what others think of me and I think that's where this is stemming from.


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## Dreamer777 (Jan 15, 2011)

Lord Xephere said:


> @Ludi, I read your description of INFP, and I relate to alot of the traits mentioned. Specifically the parts about hiding my feelings from people I think are judgmental, feeling like an outsider, and having a fantasy world while viewing the outside world as harsh. * What's not INFJ about that?) *The one thing that particularly stood out to me was the part in the second paragraph where it mentioned how Fi is more likely help others in a selfless way and does not want anything in return. With me, I do ask for things in return, just not material things, money, etc. What I would like is some recognition for something that I've achieved or something that I've done for someone else.  * Is that not INFJ? *
> As far as personality disorders go, I went on Wikipedia to read more about each of them and I found that almost all of the Dependent traits also fit me very well, and there are certain parts of Narcissistic like, needing positive reinforcement and praise, unrealistic fantasies of achievements romance, intelligence, and success, jealousy, and easily hurt...other than that I don't relate to this nearly as much as Avoidant and Dependent. *i haven't studied on this avoidant, dependant, etc stuff, so i'm not going to comment on it) *
> 
> The anime that I got my avatar from is not related to Chrono Trigger. There has actually always been a big confusion about this in the anime community lol. To read about the character that's in my avatar, you can look here: Chrono Crusade - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. His name is Chrono.
> ...


 *Sounds very INFJ, not INFP*

I think both Ludi and Elemental mentioned about developing your Ti and making it become stronger. (Ti is my devilish function as an INFP which i don't even understand the description of what it means really, so i'm not bringing it up to discuss it, other than i think once you do develop it stronger, you will make an excellent radio talk show host, INFJ's are very level headed in discussion and debate and respect other's input, where as INFP's can take things personally and offensively and just plain storm off the set, or blow a temper. I (an INFP) was offered to do a radio talk show on a category i'm very defensive about and believe strongly in, and it was an INFJ who offered to me, he seems to see that i can do it, i told him no i can't, i don't have good temper control and i get offended and take things personally too easily, he's still waiting on me to say yes so he can set it up with the radio station, he thinks what i have to say is much needed and with my own voice for people to hear, which i say yes i agree it is much needed, but i would prefer to write articles or responses (preferrably responses to questions like a dear Abby column type of thing) even then, who knows how long i would last before i float on to do something else... i can't even trust myself to stick with the same thing, i have too much wonderful ideas in my head, it's hard to put blinders on to all the wonders in my head and try to just stick to one tiny little category of an endless sea of knowledge and ideas in my head, i can't stick to the same job, i'm a job hopper. The longest i stuck to a job was because i was working for my brother and morally according to my ideals/values/beliefs even though i didn't like the job i stuck it out for quite a few years because of my devotion and loyalty to my belief of i must stand by my brother at all costs! Other than that, i don't last even a year in jobs, i suck at staying in the same job. I guess maybe if the radio show only ran for 3 months or so, it wouldn't be bad, but i don't like confrontational debates, for the reasons i already mentioned, it's like just not in harmony with my soul/being, like it's out of context with who i am. I prefer one on one discussions privately.

So anyhows, yes you could be a great radio show host, you have temper control, you are very aware of you affect people's feelings, you are polite and make yourself adjust for the sake of harmony of the group so to speak, and with developed Ti you will be very good with accuracy in words, right?


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## Ludi (Dec 25, 2011)

Well, Ludi can't seem to get it right, je suppose...

I change my mind and say INFJ.


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## Ludi (Dec 25, 2011)

By the way, all of you...do you have any idea on what my most likely type would be?


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## Dreamer777 (Jan 15, 2011)

Ludi said:


> Well, Ludi can't seem to get it right, je suppose...
> 
> I change my mind and say INFJ.



Ludi, what is je, i see sometimes people use these terms, and i don't really understand? i like how you challenge me to learn more and study more even if you don't know how much you do challenge me, i know sometimes we don't connect in agreeing with this typing stuff, but i do appreciate you very much Ludi, if it weren't for you and Liquid Light and others who are avid complex debaters, then i would not be challenged to learn so much more. I do get frustrated with you all sometimes i do admit, because i feel sometimes constricted if i have to get too complex about functions, etc, and as an INFP i like to float around in my clouds in freedom with what i guess is my Ne and Fi, but how would i learn more if i just always do that, so i really do appreciate you all in challenging me to learn more as sometimes i can be careless and also it helps me to learn how to type even better. We all challenge one another. I think we all need each other, i think we could not do it alone, i think it takes all of us to bring out different skills, views, opinions, knowledge to bring such an abundance of insight and introspective, i didn't create MBTI, i didn't create the manual on the 8 cognitive functions, etc, i still don't understand some of the function pairings, etc, and God forbid, don't even ask me to understand my devilish function of Ti, lol, it is truly very devilish to me!


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## Dreamer777 (Jan 15, 2011)

Ludi said:


> By the way, all of you...do you have any idea on what my most likely type would be?


ok, let's get back to your type, i thought you were INFJ, from i saw your avatar, for some reason it just made me think of no other person than an INFJ (along with the complexity of your posts...) I find INFJ's to have a very mischievous side to them, and always deep in thought. I also know INTP's are very deep in thought also and sometimes wondered if it could represent INTP? I thought it to be too "naturesome, earthy, funny, gentle, sweet, to be an INTJ, cause they are deep thinkers also... ENTJ's are deep thinkers also, but i find that avatar to just not "fit" into what i would consider the "vibes" of an ENTJ. and no for ENTP cause they wouldn't post an avatar like that either, there is a gentleness of feeling in your avatar, and from the way you debate with us in your posts, i feel alot of gentleness and peacefulness from you, never mind whether you feel confused over anything at anytime or don't agree with something, you come off as being very complex, very longwinded in responses when necessary, but always gentle and peaceful.

You are a very deep and complex thinker, there is no question about that.

See, i keep leaning to INFJ for you, because of your gentleness, politeness and peacefulness when debating with others when you don't agree, us INFP's can tend to be not so polite sometimes cause we take things too personally even when it's not directed at us to be taken personally, and for INTP's they don't have that gentleness with others either when in heated discussion, neither INTJ's, plus INTJ's are more about scientific discussions rather than psychological discussions. Your discussions are on psychological matters, so that would be INFP, INFJ, or INTP, i dont' think any other personality type will put as much effort into psychological discussions. So as you can see i don't see you as INFP or INTP as i just mentioned, and that leaves me with INFJ again for you. Sometimes i feel alot of INTP from you, but overall, i have to say....INFJ. What you think on all that i just said? Oh and by the way, INFJ's devilish function is Si, INFP's is Ti, INTP's is Fi, INTJ is Si like the INFJ, so at that point if you choose Si, then to narrow it down we would look at Te and Fe (the secondaries of INFJ and INTJ) and you choose which one you are stronger in? Try that and let me know what you come up with??

EDIT: clarify question on devilish function... which one do you least understand the description of? and since you are very complex with thoughts, explain a little bit of why you don't understand it?


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## Lord Xephere (Jan 20, 2010)

Dreamer777 said:


> INFJ's are very level headed in discussion and debate and respect other's input, where as INFP's can take things personally and offensively and just plain storm off the set, or blow a temper.


I'm pretty level headed in debates and discussions and I always respect other's opinions, but when my views are not being respected and it becomes a personal attack. For example, I'm interested in anime and shows like Avatar the Last Airbender. My brother really is not a fan of either of these things, and he says things to me that are not true, like "All the fans are losers; It's for kids/You're too old to watch that; grow up; you're a nerd/loser for watching that" etc, that just really sets me off and when he says that to me, I get real upset. That's when I start to lose my temper. I do get personally offended when someone speaks badly about something I'm passionate about but as long as they are respecting my opinion and not negatively judging me or resorting to ad hominem attacks, I stay calm and polite even if I completely disagree with their opinion. I think the only reason I lost my temper because what he said wasn't true and he was turning it into a personal attack against me lol. 

Even though I'm even tempered most of the time, I'm hypersensitive and will take any negative criticism or a perceived insult very personal, even if it just turns out to be a joke. When this happens I'll start sulking and bottle my feelings, and they either slowly disappear or the anger builds up and I lash out at the person later. This has frustrated my family in the past.

BTW, does not having a strong sense of self or identity have anything to do with Fe?


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## Dreamer777 (Jan 15, 2011)

Lord Xephere said:


> I'm pretty level headed in debates and discussions and I always respect other's opinions, but when my views are not being respected and it becomes a personal attack. For example, I'm interested in anime and shows like Avatar the Last Airbender. My brother really is not a fan of either of these things, and he says things to me that are not true, like "All the fans are losers; It's for kids/You're too old to watch that; grow up; you're a nerd/loser for watching that" etc, that just really sets me off and when he says that to me, I get real upset. That's when I start to lose my temper. I do get personally offended when someone speaks badly about something I'm passionate about but as long as they are respecting my opinion and not negatively judging me or resorting to ad hominem attacks, I stay calm and polite even if I completely disagree with their opinion. I think the only reason I lost my temper because what he said wasn't true and he was turning it into a personal attack against me lol.
> *
> I read somewhere in a website personality description on INFJ's, i can't remember right now which website, cause i been reading so many different things recently on so many different sites, but it mentions about INFJ's when it comes to their treasured things like the music they like, the movies they like, i think it said books and video games too, that they hold those things really dear to their heart and if a person ridicules or speaks bad about any of those things that they like, that they get extremely upset at that person as they take it as a very personal insult against them. As an INFP, if someone speaks bad about a song or video game or book or movie that i like, i don't get angry at the person, i just would maybe get turned off at the person, but really angry and upset no. I get more angry at things like hypocrisy, people ridiculing the way i'm trying to explain something like i'm being irrational (i write better than i talk, just to let you know, so you won't see my talking here, you see the more polished side of me in my writing , i can fumble in talking, i think it's because my Ne is too busy at work sending messages to my Fi and i get distracted in live chat, whereas typing here no one can distract me when i am typing and i can backspace, delete, erase, retype, ad things, take things away, you get the picture..  I wish i could find that article again, if someone remembers where that article on INFJ's sensitivity to their music, books, movies, etc... is posted please post it again here for me or the link to it...thx*
> 
> ...


i think that is INFJ, they aren't really intouch with their feelings the way INFP's are, INFP's are dominant Fi's, we are very very very protective over our feelings!! INFJ's can't know sometimes how they feel, they are too busy with their introverted intuitive function and their extraverted feeling function, processing how others are feeling and comparing it to their introverted intuition, now i would like an INFJ to back up what i just said to make sure i said it right, and INFP's are too busy with their introverted feeling function and their extraverted intuitive function, seeing what they intuit off of an external input and running it through their feelings to see how it affects their feelings (of their ideals/beliefs/values)

INFJ and INFP have some similarities, and i don't think there is as much confusion between figuring out between 2 types which type the person is, as much as the confusion between INFP and INFJ. I think because of these dynamics that these 2 types have, which are both into helping humanity in what ways they see fit and standing up against injustice, and that both are introverted intuitive feelers, that this causes the confusion. But there is some stark differences between INFP and INFJ, and i think because INFP's are more into simple thinking, and INFJ's are more into complex thinking, this is my opinion, but i think it's much easier for an INFP to realize the INFJ's type, than it is for the INFJ to realize their own type, just due to the neverending complexity in their mind and thought processing added to the amazing wonderful introverted intuiting that they do/have, that dominant Ni, i get a little Ni sometimes too, i get ah haa moments sometimes too, but more rare, INFJ's get this constantly.


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## Ludi (Dec 25, 2011)

Lord Xephere said:


> I'm pretty level headed in debates and discussions and I always respect other's opinions, but when my views are not being respected and it becomes a personal attack. For example, I'm interested in anime and shows like Avatar the Last Airbender. My brother really is not a fan of either of these things, and he says things to me that are not true, like "All the fans are losers; It's for kids/You're too old to watch that; grow up; you're a nerd/loser for watching that" etc, that just really sets me off and when he says that to me, I get real upset. That's when I start to lose my temper. I do get personally offended when someone speaks badly about something I'm passionate about but as long as they are respecting my opinion and not negatively judging me or resorting to ad hominem attacks, I stay calm and polite even if I completely disagree with their opinion. I think the only reason I lost my temper because what he said wasn't true and he was turning it into a personal attack against me lol.
> 
> Even though I'm even tempered most of the time, I'm hypersensitive and will take any negative criticism or a perceived insult very personal, even if it just turns out to be a joke. When this happens I'll start sulking and bottle my feelings, and they either slowly disappear or the anger builds up and I lash out at the person later. This has frustrated my family in the past.
> 
> BTW, does not having a strong sense of self or identity have anything to do with Fe?



Disclaimer: The reason I thought you were a good case for INFP...was that Fi is a strong tendency in you...even if you are to be judged as an INFJ. Why is this? I came to notice your scores, which suggest that you are highly introverted...this condition raises the probability of withdrawing your auxiliary, extroverted function, making the Fe seem like Fi. This would explain the traits most likely to an IFP type, amongst them some tendency for passive-agression, taking things quite personally, and the avoidant traits...by the way, the personality disorders are not mutually exclusive, they seem to be more like clusters of traits that overlap...if you read the 'Avoidant personality' page on Wikipedia, you will find that some psychologists sub-classify the dependent personality (linked to Fe), and there is indeed a 'avoidant-dependent personality', which would mean Fi + Fe, exactly what happens with a very introverted INFJ...the Fe can sometimes appear introspective in the form of Fi. The good news is that being able to tap into inner judgment (Fi or Ti) lets one rely less on external approval (Fe/Te) to idiosyncratic perceptions (Ni), i.e. less self-sabotage. The bad news is that, being averse to extraversing, or facing the outer world, makes one less likely to cultivate the Fe functions, and by means of it, the inferior and aspiring function of Se (since Fe is the second one, the Se hangs on it, as you are less comfortable with it...a parent-child connection). Is it therefore important that you find some outlet to your ideas, otherwise you may find yourself frustrated and going against your temperament.

Fe is indeed related to not really having an 'inner identity'...Fe-users, the EFJs, notoriously, derive their inner identity from the outside (an oxymoron). But, to the INFJ...I'd figure the bigger part of their identity comes from the fundamental idea-matrix of the Ni, perhaps coupled with the self-consciousness of the Fi...although they will _still _seek approval from the outside, whenever they can. 

So, have you reached closure? INFJ it is?


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## Dreamer777 (Jan 15, 2011)

Ludi said:


> I looked over the parts of the profiles you bolded and, if we had to choose terms to describe your temperament, I figure these would be fitting:
> 
> _Sensitive, likes appreciation but dislikes weight of responsabilities , perfectionist, prone to self-depreciation and feelings of shame, wants to be unique but at the same time feels inadequate, the odd-one-out, empathetic, feels need for emotional support, fear of abandon and rejection, prone to moodiness and melancholy._
> 
> ...


I appreciate your time and effort you put into putting this together Ludi, i hope my input is positive feedback for you...thx.


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## Ludi (Dec 25, 2011)

Dreamer777 said:


> Ludi, what is je, i see sometimes people use these terms, and i don't really understand?


_Je _is the personal pronoun _I _in french ; _Je suppose _means _I suppose _in english.




Dreamer777 said:


> i like how you challenge me to learn more and study more even if you don't know how much you do challenge me, i know sometimes we don't connect in agreeing with this typing stuff, but i do appreciate you very much Ludi, if it weren't for you and Liquid Light and others who are avid complex debaters, then i would not be challenged to learn so much more. I do get frustrated with you all sometimes i do admit, because i feel sometimes constricted if i have to get too complex about functions, etc, and as an INFP i like to float around in my clouds in freedom with what i guess is my Ne and Fi, but how would i learn more if i just always do that, so i really do appreciate you all in challenging me to learn more as sometimes i can be careless and also it helps me to learn how to type even better. We all challenge one another. I think we all need each other, i think we could not do it alone, i think it takes all of us to bring out different skills, views, opinions, knowledge to bring such an abundance of insight and introspective,



I agree, so long we contribute within the topic. Though I must say I do not debate because I like being a one-monkey show.




Dreamer777 said:


> i didn't create MBTI, i didn't create the manual on the 8 cognitive functions, etc, i still don't understand some of the function pairings, etc, and God forbid, don't even ask me to understand my devilish function of Ti, lol, it is truly very devilish to me!


How you experience your devilish Ti?


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## Dreamer777 (Jan 15, 2011)

Ludi said:


> _Je _is the personal pronoun _I _in french ; _Je suppose _means _I suppose _in english.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh Gosh, that will have to wait til tomorrow, going to bed now... chat tomorrow


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## Ludi (Dec 25, 2011)

Dreamer777 said:


> ok, let's get back to your type, i thought you were INFJ, from i saw your avatar, for some reason it just made me think of no other person than an INFJ (along with the complexity of your posts...) I find INFJ's to have a very mischievous side to them, and always deep in thought. I also know INTP's are very deep in thought also and sometimes wondered if it could represent INTP? I thought it to be too "naturesome, earthy, funny, gentle, sweet, to be an INTJ, cause they are deep thinkers also... ENTJ's are deep thinkers also, but i find that avatar to just not "fit" into what i would consider the "vibes" of an ENTJ. and no for ENTP cause they wouldn't post an avatar like that either, there is a gentleness of feeling in your avatar, and from the way you debate with us in your posts, i feel alot of gentleness and peacefulness from you, never mind whether you feel confused over anything at anytime or don't agree with something, you come off as being very complex, very longwinded in responses when necessary, but always gentle and peaceful.


Longwinded? Am I? I actually prefer conciseness... Gentle and peaceful? ...Hm...




Dreamer777 said:


> You are a very deep and complex thinker, there is no question about that.


Complex? 




Dreamer777 said:


> See, i keep leaning to INFJ for you, because of your gentleness, politeness and peacefulness when debating with others when you don't agree, us INFP's can tend to be not so polite sometimes cause we take things too personally even when it's not directed at us to be taken personally, and for INTP's they don't have that gentleness with others either when in heated discussion, neither INTJ's, plus INTJ's are more about scientific discussions rather than psychological discussions.


I see your point, but then I'm starting to suspect you type everyone as INFJ by default!




Dreamer777 said:


> Sometimes i feel alot of INTP from you, but overall, i have to say....INFJ. What you think on all that i just said? Oh and by the way, INFJ's devilish function is Si, INFP's is Ti, INTP's is Fi, INTJ is Si like the INFJ, so at that point if you choose Si, then to narrow it down we would look at Te and Fe (the secondaries of INFJ and INTJ) and you choose which one you are stronger in? Try that and let me know what you come up with??
> 
> EDIT: clarify question on devilish function... which one do you least understand the description of? and since you are very complex with thoughts, explain a little bit of why you don't understand it?


Well, I am now aware I am a judger, no question about it...so that makes me INxJ. But strangely, I cannot identify much with any of them, perhaps because I am in the process of nurturing the opposite inner judgement function (Ti or Fi) to the INJ's auxiliary Fe/Te; I value structured, but it's difficult to evaluate my tendency to accomodate and create harmony (F-ness) with the highly egocentric Ni at the top. This is a mighty contrast...the INFJs is thus the type most prone to internal tension.


Can anyone spot Fe or Te in my discourses? What do you think, L.Xephere?


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## Metanoia (Nov 21, 2011)

@Ludi
Would you rather work with people or things (e.g., systems, theories, data, machines, etc.)?


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## Lord Xephere (Jan 20, 2010)

After reading your posts I am leaning more towards INFJ. But I do have a few more questions...



Ludi said:


> Disclaimer: The reason I thought you were a good case for INFP...was that Fi is a strong tendency in you...even if you are to be judged as an INFJ. Why is this? I came to notice your scores, which suggest that you are highly introverted...this condition raises the probability of withdrawing your auxiliary, extroverted function, making the Fe seem like Fi. This would explain the traits most likely to an IFP type, amongst them some tendency for passive-agression, taking things quite personally, and the avoidant traits...by the way, the personality disorders are not mutually exclusive, they seem to be more like clusters of traits that overlap...if you read the 'Avoidant personality' page on Wikipedia, you will find that some psychologists sub-classify the dependent personality (linked to Fe), and there is indeed a 'avoidant-dependent personality', which would mean Fi + Fe, exactly what happens with a very introverted INFJ...the Fe can sometimes appear introspective in the form of Fi. The good news is that being able to tap into inner judgment (Fi or Ti) lets one rely less on external approval (Fe/Te) to idiosyncratic perceptions (Ni), i.e. less self-sabotage. The bad news is that, being averse to extraversing, or facing the outer world, makes one less likely to cultivate the Fe functions, and by means of it, the inferior and aspiring function of Se (since Fe is the second one, the Se hangs on it, as you are less comfortable with it...a parent-child connection). Is it therefore important that you find some outlet to your ideas, otherwise you may find yourself frustrated and going against your temperament.


Most of the time it seems like I care too much about others and what they think. I've noticed with myself I always put others first and will often not think about what I want, but what everyone else wants. For example, when I'm going places with my family and they ask me what I want to do and I'll just say "well, I don't care whatever you want to do." Most of the time, I really don't care about what I want, and other times I'm too embarrassed and self-conscious to say what I want. I know what it is that I want or need but I don't tell anyone because I don't want to bother or burden them. 

I also see myself as a pushover and a doormat and I have a history of doing things for people, just to appease them. I don't really stand up for myself when I should.

Is it possible that the IFP traits that I have are really negative/shadow Fi that is brought out more by my strong introversion?


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## Ludi (Dec 25, 2011)

Lord Xephere said:


> After reading your posts I am leaning more towards INFJ. But I do have a few more questions...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



*Fe *would be about making decisions that will probably benefit or please others, in other words, Fe will accomodate (put others first) because it seeks approbation and a sense of identity from the outside ; *Fi *would be about simply being content in knowing what you stand for, and not really making a decision at all if it what it takes to keep peace ; Fi will accomodate, not because they seek approbation from the outside, but because it is rather self-centered, it avoids triggering any perceptions from the outside that will unnecessarily disturb inner peace. You seem display a bit of both types of accomodation. 

The Fi may seem negative, because an INFJ would be more comfortable using an F function outwards ; you have traits of both F functions. Whilst it is commendable that you introvert the F function so that you do not become stunned by outside circumstances, the Ni requires a form of external judging to conceive it to the world. Perhaps you should be conscious that, being an auxiliary function, the Fe should not be used for its own sake, but to balance the Ni. In other words, do not seek to be too conventional ; use the best extraverted part of yourself to communicate your ideas.


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## Dreamer777 (Jan 15, 2011)

> How you experience your devilish Ti?


ok, let me see how good i can answer this for you Ludi:

here is cognitiveprocesses.com description: i will put my input in bold...

Introverted Thinking often involves finding just the right word to clearly express an idea concisely, crisply, and to the point. *The most i can relate to this sentence, is when i'm speaking/writing, sometimes i try to remember a precise word to explain what i'm syain but to no avail i always end up fumbling and stumbling and have to apologize that i can't find the word, especially more so in talking... in writing i will just try to explain some other way and no one can see my fumbling and stumbling, only in talking can it be seen, or heard i should say...*

Using introverted Thinking is like having an internal sense of the essential qualities of something, noticing the fine distinctions that make it what it is and then naming it. *maybe a little bit sometimes but for the most part no, i don't find that perfect right name/word...*

It also involves an internal reasoning process of deriving subcategories of classes and sub-principles of general principles. These can then be used in problem solving, analysis, and refining of a product or an idea. This process is evidenced in behaviors like taking things or ideas apart to figure out how they work. The analysis involves looking at different sides of an issue and seeing where there is inconsistency. In so doing, we search for a “leverage point” that will fix problems with the least amount of effort or damage to the system. We engage in this process when we notice logical inconsistencies between statements and frameworks, using a model to evaluate the likely accuracy of what’s observed. *This is all hula hula to me, i can't even understand what on earth it's trying to say, say what??? sub principles of principles??? like all of this that's said here, like no way, my brain can't understand this??? *


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## Glenda Gnome Starr (May 12, 2011)

This sounds like a sensory processing disorder... the intolerance to loud noises and sensory overload. There has been a discussion about this in the esfp forum. This seems to be a problem for a number of us. We are Se dominant and tuned into everything, yet overstimulated quite badly.
The other stuff that you mentioned does sound like infj.




Lord Xephere said:


> Thanks for the links. I do think that I have inferior Se because I do alot of the things mentioned in the article about the INFJ under stress. I like to gather facts on things I'm interested in, I'm clumsy and unaware of my surroundings, and I make careless mistakes. Sometimes I can overindulge in my Se to relax (eating sweets, listening to music, taking walks etc..). I also cannot stand loud noises and any type of sensory overload.


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