# Help a Beautiful Confusion out! ALL "Typists", I summons Thee...



## Persephone Soul

One year in the making, I am more confused now then I was then. I have worked with a few self-proclaimed experts (which are usually right on the money), but they all can't seem to come to the same conclusion on me. 4 of them say 4 different types. I have studied the heck outta the functions and seem to not be able to pin them down. Every time I think I am one, I will have so many opposing qualities that contradict it. I'm pretty sure I am an Introvert (that could be debatable). And I KNOW I am a feeler. That narrows it down to 4-8 types @[email protected] I LOATHE those questioner things, but I will fill one out IF I must. Ask me anything. @angelcat recommended I tag both @arkigos and @Arrow . I truly don't even know where to begin... but I am ready. Dissect me. (Pweeze...?) lol


----------



## 68097

Yes, I fear you will have to fill out this questionnaire. Gives us a place to begin, at least. 

(Post your answers here.)


----------



## Blue Soul

Until the questionnaire and before typists come along I'm going to say ISFP.


----------



## Arrow

Yes, I would suggest filling out the questionnaire as a starting point, and if you journal and feel comfortable enough to post on here, I would recommend posting some excerpts or passages even if they are a little old as it should give us some perspective as to where your coming from. I would say those are the things that will help with the typing process, as it helped me when I was trying to find my type. 

I'm also not sure how active you are online, but if you could post some of your interests and things you like on Youtube, what interests you, what you find personally fascinating, and your reasons why and such, that could also be helpful and insightful -- blog posts, journal entries, tumblr messages, are all great starting points too in addition to the questionnaire to help find what is the core of yourself. 

I'm trying to make this as fun and all encompassing for you as possible, during this process it's going to be pretty intensive and we'll be volleying back and forth with you on what drives you and makes you tick. I would say threw out the process feel free to add anything on here that you feel is relevant. This is your typing thread, use all the tools you have available to you to help you learn more about yourself to help you find your type.


----------



## Persephone Soul

Yayyy! ^_^ I am so excited and very thankful. 

Okay, so I will try an get that question ting filled out ASAP. I am currently feeling like I am in labor with the *lady cramps* , HAH! Sorry lol

Until then, here is my pinterest to look at!
https://www.pinterest.com/bjsma/

Here is my Facebook. Not sure what is visible. Feel free to req me.
https://m.facebook.com/jac.elizabeth...f&pn_ref=story

My Tumblr ( angelcat knows me all too well  ) lol
http://hisemeraldlily.tumblr.com/

And my Instagram. I now give you all permission to stalk me, while I curl into a ball of torment in my bed. Have fun 
https://instagram.com/jac_e_lizabeth/


----------



## Persephone Soul

Here is my Facebook. Not sure what is visible. Feel free to req me.

https://m.facebook.com/jac.elizabeth.7?fref=nf&pn_ref=story


----------



## Persephone Soul

My Tumblr ( angelcat knows me all too well  ) lol

http://hisemeraldlily.tumblr.com/


----------



## Persephone Soul

And my Instagram. I now give you all permission to stalk me, while I curl into a ball of torment in my bed. Have fun 

https://instagram.com/jac_e_lizabeth/


----------



## Cesspool

Something about you seems INFPish but also ISFPish


----------



## Persephone Soul

I am such a Rookie. I edited that one comment so I can condense all the links onto one, but then when I went to delete the extra comments, I DON'T KNOW HOW! lol

Anyhoo, here-goes! *deep breath*

0. Is there anything that may affect the way you answer the questions? For example, a stressful time, mental illness, medications, special life circumstances? Other useful information includes sex, age, and current state of mind.

-Other than Generalized Anxiety Disorder, and slight bouts of depression... I think all is well. 

1. Click on this link: Flickr: Explore! Look at the random photo for about 30 seconds. Copy and paste it here, and write about your impression of it.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/hdr_omalorig_hdr/16998827369/in/explore-2015-04-18

- Wow! First and foremost, BREATH TAKING! I was in awe just looking at this. The colors the temperature (yes I can feel it  lol).
I want to be there in a light sweater, sipping a cup of tea. Just watching the sky become more purple until the stars decide to come out and wink. I feel like I would be so connected to God, so tranquil. Perfect time to Journal or read God's Word. He is always present, but there...I would feel like He is next to me. The first and most amazing Artist. I wouldn't want to leave. That would also be an AMAZING place to fall in love. I can literally feel butterflies as I picture myself in the water with a man ( I mean, uhh.. my husband  tehe) as he holds me and splashes me. Then we get out and gaze at the stars. Seems like it is a cool Summer evening. No worries. Like that is the only world that would exist. Right there, that moment.

2. You are with a group of people in a car, heading to a different town to see your favourite band/artist/musician. Suddenly, the car breaks down for an unknown reason in the middle of nowhere. What are your initial thoughts? What are your outward reactions?

-Is it dark? Do we have cell reception? If yes, then no worries. That sucks but it happens. So it would go like this; *clunk clunk..pssssss...* "Oh my gosh, what the heck? What happened? Oh we ran out of gas, seriously? Okay let's Call AAA. I have roadside, hold on it's in my wallet..." Basically, I would be fine. I might be bummed bec now we may miss the concert.... BUT, if we are talking, DARKNESS with NO CELL RECEPTION in an unknown town.... OH HELL NO! I am locking the doors and waiting til morning. I aint budgin. And neither are my friends! They aren't gonna leave me in there alone. Nope, We are all gonna stay together. I am not going to sleep. The minute I realize we are staying here for the night, I might get all giddy/goofy sounding like "ahhh omg this is so scary.. eeeek! hold my hand! wahhhhh , I want my mommy!" LOL, all while smiling and pretend crying. But on he inside I a FREAKED! Then when the silliness simmers down, I will get SUPER serious. I won't want them to talk, my senses will be in full force. I will be scanning my WHOLE surroundings. I will probably play out possible events that could take place in my head, and have a plan for each one. If a man tries to break in and break a window, I know exactly how and where I will kick. I know that I will bite his arm and then throw any glass in his face. I will also have the keys in my hand and my hair in a bun. Like I will sit there soooo prepared in my head while I am freaking the hell out. On the inside. I wont want them talking, so I can hear EVERYTHING. Then when it is light, 2 will stay and 2 will walk. We will have a plan. Bec I don't wanna die. I have an irrational fear of death and danger, so yeah... prob not the best questionnaire for me haha. I do know that I would take charge. For sure. I need the control when I feel like I am in danger lol

3. You somehow make it to the concert. The driver wants to go to the afterparty that was announced (and assure you they won't drink so they can drive back later). How do you feel about this party? What do you do?

- aww, crap. Now I feel like a Dorkess. I just totally went crazy-girl overboard with the first Q&A lmao. So evidently we found some gas in the trunk, filled her up and made it. I had to hear it from my friends the whole ride how crazy-pants I was. Blah blah. 
Okay so, I tell her we all came together, and so we should all vote. Unless it is super sketchy, I will go if the others want to. But if I sense danger/trouble, then i will put my foot down, for ME at least. I will probably tell them WHY they shouldn't either. I will try and convince them not to, but this is only if I know it isn't safe. If it is just bec I don't wanna go because it's not really my thang, I will just call a cab if they wanted to go. I am not gonna be the buzz kill, but I am also not gonna do something I don't feel like doing.

4. On the drive back, your friends are talking. A friend makes a claim that clashes with your current beliefs. What is your inward reaction? What do you outwardly say?

-Okay so once again, this took a turn lol. Guess the group all voted to go home (sorry friend #1..I will call you Elise). And since Elise is the one I am not gellin' with tonight anyway, I will assign her as the one that gets under my skin... So this depends. If she is genuinely asking or saying whatever in hopes for clarification then I will be happy to oblige. If she is saying, "Sorry I just don't think God is real. " but says it in a nice tone, then I will probably turn it around on her, and ask why? I won't let it bother me on the outside even though internally it will. BUT if she comes at me sideways and starts to basically spit on Him and spews venom over it...I honestly will get sooo heated on he inside and it will burst. So I will have to tell her FIRMLY "I am telling you RIGHT NOW, back up and slow your roll, Elise! Like SERIOUSLY!"... Then I will pray on the inside while I start fiddling with something in my hand. I will do a lot of agitated eye rolls and head shaking. If somebody tries to console me, I wont have it. Just get me out of that car now before it gets ugly. Now, this is assuming it is something that is a DEEP rooted value. That is when the Volcano begin to spill over...or the internal *tick tick BOOM* happens. If we are talking about something like "Obama is a great President Jackie, I don't know why you don't like him" kinda thing, then I will prob laugh in sarcasm and tension may rise but I will just let her say her piece lol. I won't let it get to me.

5. What would you do if you actually saw/experienced something that clashes with your previous beliefs, experiences, and habits?

- hmmm, as in like I saw a bully pickin on a defenseless boy with a disability? Watch the hell out. That is all. That is my button. The helpless. Anyone that can't help themselves. Don't push it. I am like a a sweet fluffy lady who will shed her skin, grow scales and out comes the fire breathing Dragon. You will get burned. Just sayin' lol Same goes with if we are talking about someone lookin like a hooker and hitting on my man, or teasing my kids. Don't do it. BUUUT if we are talking about someone just saying something stupid and I don't like it? I will just roll my eyes, show disgust, but let them do their thing. I am not gonna be someone elses mom. Unless it affects me, my family of the helpless...I really don't care to the point of much of a reaction. I just know I wont have anything to do with it.

6. What are some of your most important values? How did you come about determining them? How can they change?

-If you haven't already figured it out... GOD. The Bible. The helpless. My immediate family (kids and husband). I was raised as a Christian. A certain denomination. I began to question the man made rules in the Church a few years back (after my second kiddo). I am still learning and paving my way, but I do know that I have taken a stand. I will not adhere to any made made rule if I don't personally see it in the Bible. The Bible is my only standard. If I don't feel something is right, or from God Himself, I won't adhere. God is my only Authority, morally speaking. And the only time it changes is if I found a correction on my own. As in other values and morals I have divorced from my Faith, then I am pretty open minded... you have to show me HOW and WHY it is better than my view, and I won't have a problem with changing my view...I just have to run it past my conscience and God first 

7. a) What about your personality most distinguishes you from everyone else? b) If you could change one thing about you personality, what would it be? Why?

- I am not sure what separates me... I do know I get called bubbly a lot. A dork. My husband calls me Crazy. My Dad calls me Whacky-Jackie. My friend just told me the other day that the 2 main things she likes about me is my passion, and my abstract quality. She said she thinks it is cute how I get riled up on certain issues. My husband says "that was HOT" when I do lol. I honestly don't know what I would change. I am too busy trying to figure myself out to change anything. I mean, I guess I would be less lazy LOL

8. How do you treat hunches or gut feelings? In what situations are they most often triggered?

- Not sure on this one. I am always feeling like I know what someone is all about. Like I can tell if they are B***S****ing or not. If I get a bad feeling, I always stray from it. I never stay around long enough to know if I was wrong. But when I hear *danger danger*, I listen. I have however thought I knew a person/situation, and been close but still off. I have been right, too. So I am not sure. My mom and Sister and Husband do ask me for my gut feeling, or for my vibe on things. I hate telling them, just in case I am wrong. But if it is a strong one, I will tell them.

9. a) What activities energize you most? b) What activities drain you most? Why?

- I am lazy. BUT, if I had MORE energy I would love do anything that is relaxing LOL. I love nature, tranquil environments. Aesthetically pleasing and anything to engage my 5 senses. I love using my senses, but again, I am not a thrill seeker. I love to watch tv, movies...read. I love reading, but I don't do it as much as I would love to. I have to be in a relaxed mood to do it. Nothing better than reading, with a cup of coffee/tea under a tree. Hearing the birds chirp while smelling the fresh cut grass. What about the winter rainy weather...Even BETTER! Snuggle up on the couch, open a window and hear the rain and read, with a fire going. Okay, just gave myself chills lol *le sigh* ... Things that drain me? Big sporting events. Big crowds. Grocery shopping lol. Obligations. Expectations. Big wasteful events. Cleaning my HOUSE! Blahhh

10. What do you repress about your outward behavior or internal thought process when around others? Why?

-Well let's start off with people having assumptions of my character. I hate that. I also hate being fake. Small talk, ewww. It is why I hat events so much, bec everybody is doing the clownish fake painted on smiles (I have a clown phobia lol) and asking each other how the kids are etc etc etc. All fake. I will force myself to do it back, but hate myself for it. I am such a loving and caring person, but I am sorry, I don't really care how you are doing. I don't need the details. I don't know you (really). But I don't wanna be mean, so I smile. I interact. I can be quite the actress actually. Followed by a stomach ache after. I do however LOVVVE to laugh. So, if I am surrounded by genuine laughter, I will have a BLAST! I am very insecure though (Daddy issues) so i am always thinking about that I guess. If there is a lot going on around me, I am very observant and distracted.


----------



## Persephone Soul

I am NO writer. I would LOVE to be one, but I can never get it all down the way my brain thinks it. It is frustrating. So I have to really try to be able to hone in my thoughts and actually get it down. I am better at scrap booking and things like that for my creativity, but it comes in waves. The only reason why I do keep a journal is so I can reflect and look back. Each page is a stepping stone in my journey. Here is a poem I recently wrote, but I am fully aware it is completely amateur. So be gentle lol

A Window to My Soul, a Door to Eternity by Jacqueline Elizabeth

Through each day, within each minute
my flesh is still here, but my spirit just isn't

I feel so alone, I feel so trapped
I feel like my soul is no longer in-tact

Though by you, I am never rejected and always protected
I long for a connection beyond any conception

We will laugh and we will play
and you always find the right things to say

But that's just it...

Those words of affirmation
are my confirmation

That your love only thrives on the surface
which leaves my being without a purpose

You may accept me
but you'll never get me

You never learned to try
yet still get upset when I cry

I am choking on my soul
my heart yearns to be heard

But I stay right where you want me
as your little caged bird

One day this world will burn at the hands of our Father
and my life will change for the better, so don't even bother

I will be understood.
I will be heard.
I will no longer be anyone's caged bird.

I will not choke.
I will not cry.
I will get my new wings and learn how to fly.

My eternity will be spent in what we call just air
soaring forever with the one who truly cares

Until then, my flesh remains
here with you, shackled in chains

Do not feel sad, for I now have great cheer
taking comfort in knowing, He is always near

This is the will of Him who designed me
to come out of this as His champion fighting

My soul and my flesh will always be broken
But my spirit bleeds anticipation...because I know I am one of His chosen.


----------



## Blue Soul

* *






SugarPlum said:


> I am such a Rookie. I edited that one comment so I can condense all the links onto one, but then when I went to delete the extra comments, I DON'T KNOW HOW! lol
> 
> Anyhoo, here-goes! *deep breath*
> 
> 0. Is there anything that may affect the way you answer the questions? For example, a stressful time, mental illness, medications, special life circumstances? Other useful information includes sex, age, and current state of mind.
> 
> -Other than Generalized Anxiety Disorder, and slight bouts of depression... I think all is well.
> 
> 1. Click on this link: Flickr: Explore! Look at the random photo for about 30 seconds. Copy and paste it here, and write about your impression of it.
> 
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/hdr_omalorig_hdr/16998827369/in/explore-2015-04-18
> 
> - Wow! First and foremost, BREATH TAKING! I was in awe just looking at this. The colors the temperature (yes I can feel it  lol).
> I want to be there in a light sweater, sipping a cup of tea. Just watching the sky become more purple until the stars decide to come out and wink. I feel like I would be so connected to God, so tranquil. Perfect time to Journal or read God's Word. He is always present, but there...I would feel like He is next to me. The first and most amazing Artist. I wouldn't want to leave. That would also be an AMAZING place to fall in love. I can literally feel butterflies as I picture myself in the water with a man ( I mean, uhh.. my husband  tehe) as he holds me and splashes me. Then we get out and gaze at the stars. Seems like it is a cool Summer evening. No worries. Like that is the only world that would exist. Right there, that moment.
> 
> 2. You are with a group of people in a car, heading to a different town to see your favourite band/artist/musician. Suddenly, the car breaks down for an unknown reason in the middle of nowhere. What are your initial thoughts? What are your outward reactions?
> 
> -Is it dark? Do we have cell reception? If yes, then no worries. That sucks but it happens. So it would go like this; *clunk clunk..pssssss...* "Oh my gosh, what the heck? What happened? Oh we ran out of gas, seriously? Okay let's Call AAA. I have roadside, hold on it's in my wallet..." Basically, I would be fine. I might be bummed bec now we may miss the concert.... BUT, if we are talking, DARKNESS with NO CELL RECEPTION in an unknown town.... OH HELL NO! I am locking the doors and waiting til morning. I aint budgin. And neither are my friends! They aren't gonna leave me in there alone. Nope, We are all gonna stay together. I am not going to sleep. The minute I realize we are staying here for the night, I might get all giddy/goofy sounding like "ahhh omg this is so scary.. eeeek! hold my hand! wahhhhh , I want my mommy!" LOL, all while smiling and pretend crying. But on he inside I a FREAKED! Then when the silliness simmers down, I will get SUPER serious. I won't want them to talk, my senses will be in full force. I will be scanning my WHOLE surroundings. I will probably play out possible events that could take place in my head, and have a plan for each one. If a man tries to break in and break a window, I know exactly how and where I will kick. I know that I will bite his arm and then throw any glass in his face. I will also have the keys in my hand and my hair in a bun. Like I will sit there soooo prepared in my head while I am freaking the hell out. On the inside. I wont want them talking, so I can hear EVERYTHING. Then when it is light, 2 will stay and 2 will walk. We will have a plan. Bec I don't wanna die. I have an irrational fear of death and danger, so yeah... prob not the best questionnaire for me haha. I do know that I would take charge. For sure. I need the control when I feel like I am in danger lol
> 
> 3. You somehow make it to the concert. The driver wants to go to the afterparty that was announced (and assure you they won't drink so they can drive back later). How do you feel about this party? What do you do?
> 
> - aww, crap. Now I feel like a Dorkess. I just totally went crazy-girl overboard with the first Q&A lmao. So evidently we found some gas in the trunk, filled her up and made it. I had to hear it from my friends the whole ride how crazy-pants I was. Blah blah.
> Okay so, I tell her we all came together, and so we should all vote. Unless it is super sketchy, I will go if the others want to. But if I sense danger/trouble, then i will put my foot down, for ME at least. I will probably tell them WHY they shouldn't either. I will try and convince them not to, but this is only if I know it isn't safe. If it is just bec I don't wanna go because it's not really my thang, I will just call a cab if they wanted to go. I am not gonna be the buzz kill, but I am also not gonna do something I don't feel like doing.
> 
> 4. On the drive back, your friends are talking. A friend makes a claim that clashes with your current beliefs. What is your inward reaction? What do you outwardly say?
> 
> -Okay so once again, this took a turn lol. Guess the group all voted to go home (sorry friend #1..I will call you Elise). And since Elise is the one I am not gellin' with tonight anyway, I will assign her as the one that gets under my skin... So this depends. If she is genuinely asking or saying whatever in hopes for clarification then I will be happy to oblige. If she is saying, "Sorry I just don't think God is real. " but says it in a nice tone, then I will probably turn it around on her, and ask why? I won't let it bother me on the outside even though internally it will. BUT if she comes at me sideways and starts to basically spit on Him and spews venom over it...I honestly will get sooo heated on he inside and it will burst. So I will have to tell her FIRMLY "I am telling you RIGHT NOW, back up and slow your roll, Elise! Like SERIOUSLY!"... Then I will pray on the inside while I start fiddling with something in my hand. I will do a lot of agitated eye rolls and head shaking. If somebody tries to console me, I wont have it. Just get me out of that car now before it gets ugly. Now, this is assuming it is something that is a DEEP rooted value. That is when the Volcano begin to spill over...or the internal *tick tick BOOM* happens. If we are talking about something like "Obama is a great President Jackie, I don't know why you don't like him" kinda thing, then I will prob laugh in sarcasm and tension may rise but I will just let her say her piece lol. I won't let it get to me.
> 
> 5. What would you do if you actually saw/experienced something that clashes with your previous beliefs, experiences, and habits?
> 
> - hmmm, as in like I saw a bully pickin on a defenseless boy with a disability? Watch the hell out. That is all. That is my button. The helpless. Anyone that can't help themselves. Don't push it. I am like a a sweet fluffy lady who will shed her skin, grow scales and out comes the fire breathing Dragon. You will get burned. Just sayin' lol Same goes with if we are talking about someone lookin like a hooker and hitting on my man, or teasing my kids. Don't do it. BUUUT if we are talking about someone just saying something stupid and I don't like it? I will just roll my eyes, show disgust, but let them do their thing. I am not gonna be someone elses mom. Unless it affects me, my family of the helpless...I really don't care to the point of much of a reaction. I just know I wont have anything to do with it.
> 
> 6. What are some of your most important values? How did you come about determining them? How can they change?
> 
> -If you haven't already figured it out... GOD. The Bible. The helpless. My immediate family (kids and husband). I was raised as a Christian. A certain denomination. I began to question the man made rules in the Church a few years back (after my second kiddo). I am still learning and paving my way, but I do know that I have taken a stand. I will not adhere to any made made rule if I don't personally see it in the Bible. The Bible is my only standard. If I don't feel something is right, or from God Himself, I won't adhere. God is my only Authority, morally speaking. And the only time it changes is if I found a correction on my own. As in other values and morals I have divorced from my Faith, then I am pretty open minded... you have to show me HOW and WHY it is better than my view, and I won't have a problem with changing my view...I just have to run it past my conscience and God first
> 
> 7. a) What about your personality most distinguishes you from everyone else? b) If you could change one thing about you personality, what would it be? Why?
> 
> - I am not sure what separates me... I do know I get called bubbly a lot. A dork. My husband calls me Crazy. My Dad calls me Whacky-Jackie. My friend just told me the other day that the 2 main things she likes about me is my passion, and my abstract quality. She said she thinks it is cute how I get riled up on certain issues. My husband says "that was HOT" when I do lol. I honestly don't know what I would change. I am too busy trying to figure myself out to change anything. I mean, I guess I would be less lazy LOL
> 
> 8. How do you treat hunches or gut feelings? In what situations are they most often triggered?
> 
> - Not sure on this one. I am always feeling like I know what someone is all about. Like I can tell if they are B***S****ing or not. If I get a bad feeling, I always stray from it. I never stay around long enough to know if I was wrong. But when I hear *danger danger*, I listen. I have however thought I knew a person/situation, and been close but still off. I have been right, too. So I am not sure. My mom and Sister and Husband do ask me for my gut feeling, or for my vibe on things. I hate telling them, just in case I am wrong. But if it is a strong one, I will tell them.
> 
> 9. a) What activities energize you most? b) What activities drain you most? Why?
> 
> - I am lazy. BUT, if I had MORE energy I would love do anything that is relaxing LOL. I love nature, tranquil environments. Aesthetically pleasing and anything to engage my 5 senses. I love using my senses, but again, I am not a thrill seeker. I love to watch tv, movies...read. I love reading, but I don't do it as much as I would love to. I have to be in a relaxed mood to do it. Nothing better than reading, with a cup of coffee/tea under a tree. Hearing the birds chirp while smelling the fresh cut grass. What about the winter rainy weather...Even BETTER! Snuggle up on the couch, open a window and hear the rain and read, with a fire going. Okay, just gave myself chills lol *le sigh* ... Things that drain me? Big sporting events. Big crowds. Grocery shopping lol. Obligations. Expectations. Big wasteful events. Cleaning my HOUSE! Blahhh
> 
> 10. What do you repress about your outward behavior or internal thought process when around others? Why?
> 
> -Well let's start off with people having assumptions of my character. I hate that. I also hate being fake. Small talk, ewww. It is why I hat events so much, bec everybody is doing the clownish fake painted on smiles (I have a clown phobia lol) and asking each other how the kids are etc etc etc. All fake. I will force myself to do it back, but hate myself for it. I am such a loving and caring person, but I am sorry, I don't really care how you are doing. I don't need the details. I don't know you (really). But I don't wanna be mean, so I smile. I interact. I can be quite the actress actually. Followed by a stomach ache after. I do however LOVVVE to laugh. So, if I am surrounded by genuine laughter, I will have a BLAST! I am very insecure though (Daddy issues) so i am always thinking about that I guess. If there is a lot going on around me, I am very observant and distracted.





 @SugarPlum I'm thinking you're definitely an INFP (Fi-Ne-Si-Te).

First thing I noticed (except that you're an obvious feeler) was your Si, you're concerned with your sensory impressions of things. Very subjective. Your Ne is practically going crazy all over the place, you see possibilities and multiple ideas seem to form quickly. 

Fi because you're in tune with your own feelings. You're very much about how you feel about things and sometimes think screw the others, but you are also worried about harmony which is an INFP trait. I can tell that you do look for some external proof (Te), and your ramblings are almost out of your control. You just express what you think and feel.


----------



## Persephone Soul

Hi there! Thank you for your reply! I do see it, but let me ask...could; being quite outspoken, semi judgemental, very observant, having more of a hands-on creativity, VERY impulsive and sexual, "actions speak louder than words", concerned with how people view/think of me, and having no writing capability lol.... INFP? 

Some say xSFJ, others say xNFP. I score almost always, xSFP on MBTI and usually xNFP, IxFJ on cognitive tests.


----------



## Persephone Soul

I know it is silly to compare myself to fictional characters, BUT I am going to anyway lol. I relate a LOT to Jasmine. Probably the most of any character, and she is not even one of my faves, nor do I admire her much. I just am a lot like her. And Belle. Oh and Allie from the Notebook! I am bossy, yet submissive if it doesn't strike a cord. I am not timid, but can be quite fierce actually. I am very very respectful. I also use the directive form of communication. Like "hey can you get some milk" vs "oh darn, we are out of milk" lol. In my family I am the authoritative, unless my husband who has always gone with the flow decides to take charge, then I will submit. But I have a "dont take no s****" exterior. 

That being said, yes I am a brancher. Notorious one. And I am literally known as the Bubbly, Wise and PASSIONATE Jackie. Wise beyond my years. Been told this my whole life.


----------



## Persephone Soul

@angelcat was positive I was ESFJ possibly ISFJ at first, but I think is now leaning towards INFP.

I also would like to add, that I come off a lot more manic online then I am in person, although I am still always silly lol

ANY other questions, anybody?


----------



## Blue Soul

@SugarPlum I could see arguments for being an extrovert. ISFPs and INFPs can be very hard to tell apart because they're both concerned with ideas, but INFP was what I saw at least.

Have you tried the socionics test? Keep in mind though that introverts have the P and J reversed in socionics compared to MBTI. Post your results maybe? Pick the extended one.

Tests


----------



## Persephone Soul

@Blue Soul , Thanks for your reply! I just did this actually. It was so close. I got the IEE (ENFp) 2 Fi , meaning I am more like the INFj (INFP). 

Then I got INFp 96% as likely
and then INFj 95% as likely

Seriously? lol 

But yeah, I can see it. I think my Si is just VERY developed. I grew up REALLY fast and had to be my parents, parent. Very rough childhood, always aware of my surroundings and never able to be very creative. I developed fears and anxieties and had to always be on edge. Prepared. 
@angelcat , do you have anything to share? Anything you could remember that may be a good opposing argument? lol
@Arrow @arkigos @alittlebear @hoopla ? hey @HandsomeJack , HI!!! lol


----------



## 68097

INFP is probably correct. Everything in your answers seemed Fi to me. 

I've never really considered ISFJ for you. No inferior Ne in our conversations.
@Arrow might have more insight. He's better at spotting inferior Te than I am.


----------



## Persephone Soul

Yeah that is true. You only said ISFJ as a second option when I asked for one. But you're right, you did rule it out later. I guess I am just so confused because in our emails you were very sure on Fe, specifically Fe-dom. But now everyone sees Fi-dom. 

I think I am leaning toward INFP with a strong Si and Te? IDk... My tritype is 4, 6 and I am almost positive 8.

Thanks, @angelcat.


----------



## 68097

SugarPlum said:


> Yeah that is true. You only said ISFJ as a second option when I asked for one. But you're right, you did rule it out later. I guess I am just so confused because in our emails you were very sure on Fe, specifically Fe-dom. But now everyone sees Fi-dom.
> 
> I think I am leaning toward INFP with a strong Si and Te? IDk... My tritype is 4, 6 and I am almost positive 8.
> 
> Thanks, @angelcat.


BUT LAST TIME YOU SAID... = Te. LOL


----------



## Persephone Soul

Arrow said:


> I'm marking this page for my next comment. I'm currently planning and running events in the city, working 17 hour days the past week, and I have to wake up in 5 hours, so I can't get into going threw your lengthy post now, but I appreciate the commitment and effort for what you have posted.


Awe, thank you for YOUR commitment! No worries at all. Truly, I appreciate your help. No rush, and please get some rest. 

Nighty, night.  zzzzzz


----------



## Dangerose

I think you use Fi-Te and Si-Ne. INFP seems like the obvious choice; I'm not sure though. Sorry, that's all I've got


----------



## Persephone Soul

Oswin said:


> I think you use Fi-Te and Si-Ne. INFP seems like the obvious choice; I'm not sure though. Sorry, that's all I've got


Thats okay, thank you! I appreciate your input! Have you decided on your type?


----------



## Dangerose

SugarPlum said:


> Thats okay, thank you! I appreciate your input! Have you decided on your type?


Nope, but I feel like I'm getting closer at least)


----------



## Deadly Decorum

When you're in a new situation, do you judge it to be kind of scary, especially if it was completely unexpected? But after you've kind of gotten "used" to it, do you find it much easier to enjoy the experience, especially if you can see it in a new way?

Do you sometimes like things just for the "danger" of it? What does danger mean to you? Explain.

Are you more likely to develop a new idea before or after an event occurs?

When you're in an uncertain situation, is it meaningful for you to have your friends support you and cheer you on by entering the event with you? Are you likely to do things you're apprehensive about with someone you trust in order to alleviate the tension of the event?

How well do you know yourself? What does it mean to know yourself, and how can you attempt to know who you really are? What sources can you use?

Do you like to encourage people, cheer them on or reach out to people? If so, in what ways do you attempt to evoke such responses?


----------



## Deadly Decorum

SugarPlum said:


> Thank you! Yeah, angelcat thought this as well from that email, but leans more towards INFP now aftera further conversation. This is actually a great comparison to me... Funky MBTI in Fiction — The Notebook: Allie Hamilton [INFP]I do know, anything that is focused on others is actually all about me. I care about their thoughts on ME. I care if they have a good time, not bec i care about them, but bec I care about how they view ME.


What sorts of thoughts? What sorts of thoughts or perceptions do you believe others may hold towards you?



SugarPlum said:


> I dont want them to label me or put me in a box (e.g. boring, waste of time etc.).


Why not? Do you feel like a box would stifle everything you could be? Do you wish to expand upon all the things that could possibly occur? Do you ever use prior evidence to deduce such insights?



SugarPlum said:


> I help the helpless, no one else. Bec what if i were helpless? The disabled bec I have autistic children. The abused bec i was... my mom was.


Why are the helpless your only value? Yeah, what if you were helpless? What would that be like? Ever wonder what it would be like to be in someone's shoes, or wonder why people are the way they are? Do you imagine what it would be like to be someone else? 

Do you feel like you suffered a lot of injustice in your life? If so, do you value breaking people from such injustice? Do you aim to prevent the injustices you suffered from happening to anyone else?


----------



## Persephone Soul

hoopla said:


> When you're in a new situation, do you judge it to be kind of scary, especially if it was completely unexpected? But after you've kind of gotten "used" to it, do you find it much easier to enjoy the experience, especially if you can see it in a new way?
> 
> Do you sometimes like things just for the "danger" of it? What does danger mean to you? Explain.
> 
> Are you more likely to develop a new idea before or after an event occurs?
> 
> When you're in an uncertain situation, is it meaningful for you to have your friends support you and cheer you on by entering the event with you? Are you likely to do things you're apprehensive about with someone you trust in order to alleviate the tension of the event?
> 
> How well do you know yourself? What does it mean to know yourself, and how can you attempt to know who you really are? What sources can you use?
> 
> Do you like to encourage people, cheer them on or reach out to people? If so, in what ways do you attempt to evoke such responses?


_When you're in a new situation, do you judge it to be kind of scary, especially if it was completely unexpected? But after you've kind of gotten "used" to it, do you find it much easier to enjoy the experience, especially if you can see it in a new way?_

*Depends on the situation , as I am sure it does for everyone... But yes I do..in a way. Okay so New is absolutely fine with me, in-fact I LOVE new every now and again. I am the type of person who like to move every year. A new environment, new home, new new new. It is however always local, but someday I would love to move somewhere else. See the world. Not having the control of it or it spontaneously happening NOT by MY doing, is anxiety probing for me. Like, I am all for spontaneity, but by MY own doing. Otherwise, I do get very anxious, but I just need reassurance that it is gonna be fine. It does help knowing if someone else went through the same thing and how they did it. I do adapt well though, just the initial shock takes some processing.*

_Do you sometimes like things just for the "danger" of it? What does danger mean to you? Explain._

*NOPE. I do NOT like danger, ever. I like safety, and I am super cautious. Do I like new and novel? YES..but dangerous, uh-uhhh! Danger is anything that could cause harm to myself or others. I also have a irrational fear and phobia of death, so anything dangerous, my mind goes to a million things that could go wrong and my mind says "Danger! Danger!"*

_Are you more likely to develop a new idea before or after an event occurs?_

*Most likely, after, if I am understanding the question right. Things make me think of things. Something will either remind me of something or I will make connections and then develop an idea.*

_When you're in an uncertain situation, is it meaningful for you to have your friends support you and cheer you on by entering the event with you? Are you likely to do things you're apprehensive about with someone you trust in order to alleviate the tension of the event?_

*Hmmm, not sure I can quite picture what exactly you are saying in my head, but I will try. Okay, so I would probably need someone by my side that KNOWS me. I mean KNOWS me if it is something that I am uncertain in. That way I can be myself, and trust myself. If I am in an uncertain situation, I don't need other peoples cheer and encouragement to drown out my own instincts. I need someone that will encourage me to listen to myself. Although I am no stranger to gathering consensus just for the sake of it. But that is more of a processing method for me, and you are moreso speaking of "in the now", and I will need to hear my instincts clearly. Also, I just thought, I would probably prefer a to have someone that is an expert in the situation, to go hand in hand with my instinctual ability. Hope that answered it.*

_How well do you know yourself? What does it mean to know yourself, and how can you attempt to know who you really are? What sources can you use?_

*Okay, so this is actually a very complex question for me. There are a couple answers. Firstly, I feel like I know who I am , but then I feel like somehow it doesn't match what others see, or what others think. It is so hard to explain and put into words, and it feels really blurry actually. Try to imagine someone who only understood, spoke, and read in English when they are alone, but then for some reason, when they are in the company of someone else, it doesn't translate. It comes out in Spanish, but that is okay bec she is in Mexico. So nobody thinks anything of it, but she feels confused, bec what they are hearing is not what she is saying, therefore they have the wrong perception/assumption. And no matter how hard she tries to get the English out, only rarely will some come out... and when it does, the others don't get it. Okay so that probably made no sense at all haha.

The second part of that answer is that I identify myself in Christ. I am not trying to make this about religion, but it is however a big chunk of this answer. I know myself when I am connected to Him. Some would say that I am brainwashed and I can be whoever I want to be, which I guess is true. But I choose to be whoever He says I am and that is where I find my identity. I guess this could explain why I am having such a hard time with this? I dunno. I feel like this question holds such a complex answer for me, that it is almost embarrassing. LOL, sorry *

_Do you like to encourage people, cheer them on or reach out to people? If so, in what ways do you attempt to evoke such responses?_

*I will cheer someone on, only if I feel the urge to. I won't just bec I 'should'. If what someone is doing is something I find to be a situation in need of encouragement, absolutely! I will however do it for the sake of the other person if it is important to them as well, but if I don't agree... then nah, I am just there for them personally, but not to support their cause or whatever. Did that make sense? lol*

_What sorts of thoughts? What sorts of thoughts or perceptions do you believe others may hold towards you?_

*I guess this has to do with insecurity maybe? I don't wanna be the one to blame if someone is not having a good time, or feel like they wasted their time. I don't know how to explain this either. I do know that trying to explain this, is making me feel sad. Not sure why. I just know that a lot of pressure is off of me if I am not the host or the reason for the event (e.g. my birthday etc.). I have always been like this. Like for instance, whenever I had a birthday and my Mom would throw the party, I would always feel anxious like "what if the guests feel like this party is lame and would rather be somewhere else...". Therefore, I will NEVER make someone do something on my behalf if they show any kind of hesitation. On a side note, I become VERY lively and energetic in these situations. I come off as the "life of the party" attention hog, but I think it is some kind of defense mechanism and it isn't natural. More out of anxiety...? I turn full Se-dom, minus the danger lol.*

_Why not? Do you feel like a box would stifle everything you could be? Do you wish to expand upon all the things that could possibly occur? Do you ever use prior evidence to deduce such insights?_

*I just hate people assuming they know who I am. I am somewhat of a hypocrite I guess (and I loathe hypocrisy, go figure), bec I tend to do that with others. I always think I know their character and who they are and what the think. I try my best to never vocalize that, but oh boy, do I think and FEEL it. Hmmm, mayyybe that is why I am so sensitive to it, bec I DO IT! Wow, I think it is, actually! interesting...*

_Why are the helpless your only value? Yeah, what if you were helpless? What would that be like? Ever wonder what it would be like to be in someone's shoes, or wonder why people are the way they are? Do you imagine what it would be like to be someone else?

Do you feel like you suffered a lot of injustice in your life? If so, do you value breaking people from such injustice? Do you aim to prevent the injustices you suffered from happening to anyone else?_

*Okay so the helpless are not the ONLY ones I 'value'. They are just the only ones that I will go far and beyond to help. I will of course help someone fully capable when asked (if I don't disagree with what they are asking for), but I don't even need to be asked for the ones that are unable to help themselves. I feel like we all need help from time to time in this world, but why would I help someone who CAN help themselves before the ones that can't? That is just where my heart is. For instance, abused children. I am getting ready to do volunteer work be their advocate. To be their voice. I also am looking into putting in some time to "LOVE" the little ones that are placed in a temporary facility while finding foster parents to place them with. I just feel like these are the ones that need my attention. Others are more than capable to take care of themselves, and deal with whatever they are going through more independently, including myself! Emotional support? Sure... but physical help? Seriously? There are people in this world with worse issues than you.

And well, I guess you could say that. I had/have major 'daddy issues'. I lived in a very unstable home. I was the parent TO my parents at a very young age. I was verbally and emotionally abused (as well as my mother), and I would stick up for her even if it put the attention on me. I didn't care. I am still this way. I feel like I am tougher than the ones that are being abused, so I will take it for the both of us. But in all honesty, I am not. I take it hard, and it stays with me, but I still have the savior complex.*


----------



## Persephone Soul

I would also like to note that I am very emotionally expressive, but I do have a hard time with saying I love you, or giving words of affirmation. The more I know someone expects or wants to hear it, the more it becomes even harder to. I am very emotional, and have no problem expressing those emotions though. I vent, I get riled up, I cry, I have "woe is me " moments.... But to say, "You are amazing mom, I love you so much" is HARD. I feel it, and I will try to show it in certain ways, but I can't say it. So I am not sure if that is Fe or Fi, considering it looks like Fi, yet I am expressive. Idk...

Also, I truly truly hope you don't mind @TelepathicGoose , but I am gonna use some of your questions. Please feel free to chime in, or not. Either way lol. But credit goes to you for the Q's 

1.) Do the ends justify the means? Why or why not?

*NO! well...kind of. Okay, I naturally am guilty of this on a small level I guess, but I don't agree with it or want to be like this. It isn't my 'preference'.*

2.) Is it easy for you to express your emotions, or is it easier for you to express them in writing?

*Talking them out. Crying them out. I would love to write them out but it doesn't come out strongly enough. I need to emote them. Except affirming people with words and 'I love you's'. That is hard.*

3.) Do you feel with your gut or your heart?

*I honestly don't know the difference. Both? It all feels connected. Although I can separate them from my head. And then I would say gut/heart.*

4.) When you have been experiencing a negative emotion, which sounds more like you?
*a.) I need help, right away. Any interpersonal help. I will go ask advice from anyone, I just need to sort it out. Find the solution, vent.*
b.) I do better if I get my mind off of it. I sometimes am stubborn and refuse to talk about my problems, as I prefer to think of other, more pleasant things.

*"a", but not just 'anyone'. I only have a handful of people in my life that I would do this with. BUT , oh boy, do they hear it. Especially 2 of them.*


5.) Concerning big social movements (like, the civil rights movement), is it more important that the action is done, or that the person attempting the action has their heart in it?

*Hmmm, both? I mean it would concern me if it was getting done but the heart wasn't in it. It would make me question their motive. But then again, I guess it is still getting done. If the heart is in it, I think that is better.*

6.) Let's say a friend started an opinion, that you honestly disagreed with, how would you respond?
a.) I would outwardly agree with them, even if I didn't inwardly. It's more important that our relationship is good than me being honest.
*b.) I would disagree, for the sake of honesty. I know it may hurt our relationship, but they need to know where I stand.
c.) I wouldn't say anything, I don't want to lie, but I don't want to make a fuss either. It's better these things are left unsaid.*
d.) I would immediately see their opinion, and my previous opinion would immediately falter.

*BOTH. If not a big deal, "c". If it is, no doubt about it, "b".*

7.) Do you:
a.) Get your identity from the world around you; have an unclear sense of self?
*b.) Impose your identity on the world around you; have a very clear sense of self?*

*I try to do this, but it feels like the world keeps telling me who I am. Then I end up clamming up out of frustration.*

8.) Are we all one, or are we all unique?

*Uniquely one. We are all human, and the same structure but all tweaked a little different. I love this. It makes me think of when you twin babies wearing the same outfit but different colors/prints. ^_^*

9.) What type of empathizing do you do?
a.) I take on their emotions as my own. When someone is upset at someone else, I immediately am upset at that person as well.
*b.) Mirror their emotions. I try to put myself in their shoes and see how I would feel, or relate it to my own experience.*

*I 'guess' this one. I don't know. Some things grab me and others don't. When they don't, well they just don't. But when they do, THEY DO! And I do usually see things and feel things from withing that person. Like looking from their eyes. Almost like being them.*

10.) Tell me one time you were really upset at someone, explain why this happened, how it made you feel, and how you chose to solve it. 

*Ehhh. Someone being manipulative and others not being able to see it, That drives me crazyyyyy. When I can see the true nature and motives in someone, but I am the ONLY one that does. Then I look like tha @$$hole for 'assuming', all while the manipulator internally smiles at me, knowing I can see the smile as well! grarrrghhhgfjklsdfsjkdhf;sjhdf;jsdfh!!!! (Enneagram 4,6,8- The Truth Teller  )*


----------



## Persephone Soul

P.S. I feel like this is me lately! This song emulates my core desire. My husband isn't a loser, but there was a moment of separation in our 10 year marriage and this song was everything. It just feels like a fantasy, bec I can't. I have been responsible my whole life. For my parents, my siblings ( I am the oldest of a litter of 6, by 7-18 years), then my own children and husband (since I was 18). So I am not sure if this is an inferior Ne thing or a high Ne thing (or maybe even se? ). I do however love my family and my husband is my best friend. I just feel like I am surviving, and not living .. So confused. But, this song guts me. Making it almost bittersweet to listen to. *le sigh*


----------



## Deadly Decorum

* *






SugarPlum said:


> Depends on the situation , as I am sure it does for everyone... But yes I do..in a way. Okay so New is absolutely fine with me, in-fact I LOVE new every now and again. I am the type of person who like to move every year. A new environment, new home, new new new. It is however always local, but someday I would love to move somewhere else. See the world. Not having the control of it or it spontaneously happening NOT by MY doing. Like I am all for spontaneity, but by MY own doing. Otherwise, I do get very anxious, but I just need reassurance that it is gonna be fine. It does help knowing if someone else went through the same thing and how they did it. I do adapt well though, just the initial shock takes some processing.


*In these new situations, do you like to just sort of see "what will happen?" Are you transfixed on the idea of a new place, and imagining what will happen next, what's around the bend? Or do you just want to experience it all, and get the entire gist of the experience? Absorb all of it? 

Your response here sounds rather Si-Ne to me. You love new things, you like wondering about what it would be like, but if you haven't planned it in advance, or if it's entirely sprung at you, you're nervous because you haven't processed the environment. There's no initial impression of what the object is, and no idea of what it could be, so you panic. Know what it was beforehand is helpful so you know what to expect. You may refute that; it's merely an impression. I'm much the same way. If I have an idea of what will happen before hand, or if I know what will happen based an experience, I'm gun hoe. If I have none of these things to aide me, I'm uptight as fuck. But I love new experiences... I just need a conceptual idea or a sensory impression beforehand. To angle the object in a new way, or to have some impression, or I cannot process. I don't process things automatically. It takes time.
*



SugarPlum said:


> NOPE. I do NOT like danger, ever. I like safety, and I am super cautious. Do I like new and novel? YES..but dangerous, uh-uhhh! Danger is anything that could cause harm to myself or others. I also have a irrational fear and phobia of death, so anything dangerous, my mind goes to a million things that could go wrong and my mind says "Danger! Danger!"


*Si-Ne. Ne is rather immature here, stepping in during an unknown situation and impending doom upon you. I don't think it's dominate, and I question auxiliary. You have to know exactly what will happen beforehand unless it's something you've planned for the whimsy adventure, right? Just the sake of what could be? And if that's not there, I'm guessing you're pulled through a loop if there's no idea of what will happen, leading Ne to be antagonistic, a bully.*



SugarPlum said:


> Most likely, after, if I am understanding the question right. Things make me think of things. Something will either remind me of something or I will make connections and then develop an idea.


*Again, Si seems stronger than Ne, though Ne is definitely in good use.*



SugarPlum said:


> Hmmm, not sure I can quite picture what exactly you are saying in my head, but I will try. Okay, so I would probably need someone by my side that KNOWS me. I mean KNOWS me if it is something that I am uncertain in. That way I can be myself, and trust myself. If I am in an uncertain situation, I don't need other peoples cheer and encouragement to drown out my own instincts. I need someone that will encourage me to listen to myself. Although I am no stranger to gathering consensus just for the sake of it. But that is more of a processing method for me, and you are moreso speaking of "in the now", and I will need to hear my instincts clearly. Also, I just thought, I would probably prefer a to have someone that is expert in the situation to go hand in hand with my instinctual ability. Hope that answered it.


*
Interesting. Do you feel like others help you to know yourself better? Do you find it hard to reflect upon your feelings/ideas internally, and find it easier to discuss how you're feeling collectively in a group, to gain the correct answer or insight? Would you say you rely on experts or your own feelings first?*



SugarPlum said:


> Okay, so this is actually a very complex question for me. There are a couple answers. Firstly, I feel like I know who I am , but then I feel like somehow it doesn't match what others see, or what others think. It is so hard to explain and put into words, and it feels really blurry actually. Try to imagine someone who only understood, spoke and read in English when they are alone, but then for some reason, when they are in the company of someone else, it doesn't translate. It comes out in Spanish, but that is okay bec we are in Mexico. So nobody thinks anything of it, but that person feels confused bec what they are hearing is not what she is saying, therefore is the wrong perception/assumption. And no matter how hard she tries to get the English out, only rarely will some come out... and when it does, the others don't get it. Okay so that probably made now sense at all haha


*Interesting. You notice the inconsistencies between your view of yourself and others' views towards you. Are you more likely to trust their opinion over your own? Elaborate. 

I have to admit your metaphor here confuses me... I don't exactly get what you mean. Are you saying a person can figure themselves out independently, but when they share these assessments with others, those receiving the assessments interpret them differently from what you intended? And that since people have a different interpretation, the individual's interpretation was wrong? *



SugarPlum said:


> The second part of that answer is that I identify myself in Christ. I am not trying to make this about religion, but it is however a big chunk of this answer. I know myself when I am connected to Him. Some would say that I am brainwashed and I can be whoever I want to be, which I guess is true. But I choose to be whoever He says I am and that is where I find my identity. I guess this could explain why I am having such a hard time with this? I dunno. I feel like this question holds such a complex answer for me, that it is almost embarrassing. LOL, sorry


*Interesting. Knowing yourself through Christ. This seems to be a theme... knowing yourself through other objects. Also don't be embarrassed. We all have strong values that shape the courses of our lives. What's interesting is learning why people hold such values.*



SugarPlum said:


> I will cheer someone on, only if I feel the urge to. I won't just bec I 'should'. If what someone is doing is something I find to be a situation in need of encouragement, absolutely! I will however do it for the sake of the other person if it important to them as well, but if I don't agree... then nah, I am just there for them personally, but not to support their cause or whatever. Did that make sense? lol


*When do you feel the urge to cheer someone on? When it will be helpful or fundamental or helpful to their wellbeing, or when everything on the inside is wrong, leading you to decide head on how to call out all their bullshit? What leads you to disagree? Again, when their actions are fundamentally harmful to themselves or others, or when they're being senseless or ignorant?*



SugarPlum said:


> I guess this has to do with insecurity maybe? I don't wanna be the one to blame if someone is not having a good time, or feel like they wasted their time. I don't know how to explain this either. I do know that trying to explain this, is making me feel sad. Not sure why. I just know that a lot of pressure is off of me if I am not the host or the reason for the event (e.g. my birthday etc.). I have always been like this. Like for instance, whenever I had a Birthday and my Mom would throw the party, I would always feel anxious like "what if the guests feel like this party is lame and would rather be somewhere else...". Therefore, I will NEVER make someone do something on my behalf if they show any kind of hesitation.


*Do you feel sad because you feel bad when you waste others' time, or fail to make them feel good or have fun? Do you feel responsible for people's reactions, and over think how your decisions effect an individual, or overthink the correct way to respond to others' and their expectations? *



SugarPlum said:


> I just hate people assuming they know who I am. I am somewhat of a hypocrite I guess (and I loathe hypocrisy, go figure), bec I tend to do that with others. I always think I know their character and who they are and what the think. I try my best to never vocalize that, but oh boy, do I think and FEEL it. Hmmm, mayyybe that is why I am so sensitive to it, bec I DO IT! Wow, I think it is, actually! interesting...


*Glad you came to a new revelation. Always enlightening isn't it? "Why haven't I thought that before???!!!??"

Why do you hate when people assume things about you? Because they're logically inaccurate, or because they're judgmental, and only you can know yourself? When you figure people out, is it automatic, or do you dwell on this conclusions before you're comfortable with making them? Do you try not to vocalize your opinion out of politeness? Are your Judgments ever so strong that you have trouble keeping your mouth shut, and end up regretting whenever they pop out of your mouth in retrospect?*



SugarPlum said:


> Okay so the helpless are not the ONLY ones I 'value'. They are just the only ones that I will go far and beyond to help. I will of course help someone fully capable when asked (if I don't disagree with what they are asking for), but I don't even need to be asked for the ones that are unable to help themselves. I feel like we all need help from time to time in this world, but why would I help someone who CAN help themselves before the ones that can't? That is just where my heart is. For instance, abused children. I am getting ready to do volunteer work be their advocate. To be their voice. I also am looking into putting in some time to "LOVE" the little ones that are placed in a temporary facility while finding foster parents to place them with. I just feel like these are the ones that need my attention. Others are more than capable to take care of themselves, and deal with whatever they are going through more independently, including myself! Emotional support? Sure... but physical help? Seriously? There are people in this world with worse issues than you.


*Interesting. Going out of your way to help the helpless without their permission... are you ever accused of being strident, stubborn or overbearing due to this? Ever feel misunderstood when this happens, because you're only trying to help? 

I want to adopt too, when the time is right. I'm not producing my own offspring, but that's a semi unrelated tangent. Why do you need to be their voice or advocate? Why can't the helpless advocate themselves?

People who think they have it worse off than everyone else... is that annoying because they need to just suck it up and deal, to get things done, move on with their lives, rather than painting themselves as the victim? Or is it because it's selfish and arrogant to only consider yourself when so many others are struggling?*



SugarPlum said:


> And well, I guess you could say that. I had/have major 'daddy issues'. I lived in a very unstable home. I was the parent TO my parents at a very young age. I was verbally and emotionally abused (as well as my mother), and I would stick up for her even if it put the attention on me. I didn't care. I am still this way. I feel like I am tougher than the ones that are being abused, so I will take it for the both of us. But in all honesty, I am not. I take it hard, and it stays with me, but I still have the savior complex.


*I apologize for your abusive upbringing, but it sounds like you've grown stronger from it.  When others are acting in the wrong, you call them out, no matter what they think? Do you feel as if this serves towards the common good?

Savior complex... interesting. Elaborate.

One last question. If something feels right, is it likely correct? Or do you need to think about what feels right in order to not harm those around you?*




I'm gaining a general idea, but I'm still blurred in some aspects. We'll see if my questions answer the foggy remnants lurking within my brain.


----------



## Persephone Soul

@hoopla - WOW! Your Ti is in full-on detective mode! I like it lol. Give me some time to think these things through. This is calling for some VERY specific answers. Okay... *breathe in..exhale* here it goes....


----------



## Deadly Decorum

What happened to your responses? They're invisible, as if they disappeared out of mid air... I only see one.


----------



## Persephone Soul

@hoopla Sorry! my computer was flippin out haha! okay, gonna start working on some answers now (with sporadic breaks for housework, *blehhh*). Be back soon


----------



## Deadly Decorum

Something strange is afoot. *WTF?*


----------



## Persephone Soul

hoopla said:


> Something strange is afoot. *WTF?*


hahahahahahaha!!! LMAO! (explanation above ^^  )


----------



## Persephone Soul

*Okie Dokie @hoopla ...
*
In these new situations, do you like to just sort of see "what will happen?" Are you transfixed on the idea of a new place, and imagining what will happen next, what's around the bend? Or do you just want to experience it all, and get the entire gist of the experience? Absorb all of it?

*Both! Like for example, the moving to a new place every year thing... I love the experience of searching for a new place to live. Looking at different homes. Imaging what it would be like to live there, where everything would go. I actually would trash everything (except meaningful things) and get all new stuff too (like furniture, dishes etc.), if I could! But alas, the husband is more grounded than I in that area lol. I love to soak it all in as it comes. Going back to the "danger" part. If I were able to see somehow that what lies ahead is not dangerous, then HELL YEAH! I would go wherever the wind blew me. It all just comes back to the danger part. I love to imagine how the life would be and turn out, not bec it has to end up that way, but it is just more inspiring that way. I would just love to actually act on it. To actually experience of it all. So things like moving to another house or whatever, is exciting. Traveling across the US by car? That would be awesome, just scary. What if we got in a car crash? I know, silly. I do however get anxious when we are driving somewhere for an appointment, and we don't know the area at all. Not bec of all the new stuff that I have to take in, but bec I feel like my senses are slower, and I feel "off my game". Like when I know the road, I feel safer but when I don't , i am too focused on the road to fully engage my sense for around me. *

Si-Ne. Ne is rather immature here, stepping in during an unknown situation and impending doom upon you. I don't think it's dominate, and I question auxiliary. You have to know exactly what will happen beforehand unless it's something you've planned for the whimsy adventure, right? Just the sake of what could be? And if that's not there, I'm guessing you're pulled through a loop if there's no idea of what will happen, leading Ne to be antagonistic, a bully.

*Maybe so... I do know I can be VERY impulsive though. I know I keep saying this, but it is bec it is so true lol... If there is no "danger" (like death, bodily harm etc), then I can be quite impulsive. I can very much say "we'll cross that bridge when we get to it!"... I tend to let destiny figure things out a lot. "It will all work out". Does this mean that I don't run it through my brain of all the possible outcome? heck no..I totally do. But I still act on impulse a lot ..unless of course...?...you got it... unless DANGER is lurking LOL!*

Interesting. Do you feel like others help you to know yourself better? Do you find it hard to reflect upon your feelings/ideas internally, and find it easier to discuss how you're feeling collectively in a group, to gain the correct answer or insight? Would you say you rely on experts or your own feelings first?

*Not really. Okay so like my Mom, Sister, best friend since the 5th grade and my husband which whom I have grown up with...possibly! It is moreso that I take what they have to say into deep consideration. Especially my mom, bec she knows me very well. She is the one that I go to for everything, talk about my deep self. So She is able to I believe give a correct interpretation from the outside looking in, whereas I try and give one from the inside looking out. And I believe that between the 2, I can get me. Side note, she actually went therough the functions with me on a website that gave a very through and brief summary of each. She knows nothing about MBTI and all the letters make her dizzy. But after reading through them all, she showed me the ones that seem like me the most. She said Fi, Ne, and Se (and in her OWN words, she said "Minus the risky behavior" LOL). My friend did the same thing for me, and she said Fe and Ni. My Husband as well, he said Fi and Ne. I said Fe/Fi and Ne the MOST. So yes, I guess I do turn to them, but mainly for an outsiders point of view that I can trust to build a consensus. Nothing concrete. Here is that link actually... "Function Clarifier" Personality Test *

Interesting. You notice the inconsistencies between your view of yourself and others' views towards you. Are you more likely to trust their opinion over your own? Elaborate.

I have to admit your metaphor here confuses me... I don't exactly get what you mean. Are you saying a person can figure themselves out independently, but when they share these assessments with others, those receiving the assessments interpret them differently from what you intended? And that since people have a different interpretation, the individual's interpretation was wrong? 

*some person that hasn't been in my life and known the "real Jackie" could not possibly know me, therefore I make listen to their outsider perspective and figure out why I am coming off that way. But in all, it frustrates me and I would rather not bother. I would rather just listen to the 4 mentioned earlier, in tandem with myself. And yeah, I think for the most part you got what i was saying. See, there is an example. So many in my life don't get my analogies and would rather just take me a face value. They understand me in their own subjective view, but not mine. Again, that probably makes no sense. ackkk nvm! LOL*

Interesting. Knowing yourself through Christ. This seems to be a theme... knowing yourself through other objects. Also don't be embarrassed. We all have strong values that shape the courses of our lives. What's interesting is learning why people hold such values.

*I know this can come off weird, but when someone holds the God/Bible as Authority, they understand that we are HIS creation, not our own. So He essentially holds the paintbrush..not me. I am just trying to figure out what He painted  lol*

When do you feel the urge to cheer someone on? When it will be helpful or fundamental or helpful to their wellbeing, or when everything on the inside is wrong, leading you to decide head on how to call out all their bullshit? What leads you to disagree? Again, when their actions are fundamentally harmful to themselves or others, or when they're being senseless or ignorant?

*All of the above. I guess I can't give any examples. If I don't agree, then I don't agree. If I don't like it, then I don't like it. I will however give in and give the encouragement one is in need of, for their benefit if I don't oppose it. If my sister were to get a job as a stripper, and she has never had a job..and everyone is excited bec "you actually got a job! woo-hoo!", I won't cheer that on. If someone was sent to death row after molesting a child, I will not cheer. I don't agree with death row, no matter the crime. Of course I would want him to suffer. In prison. his WHOLE LIFE. But just bec others encourage the family to go for the death penalty.. I won't.*

Do you feel sad because you feel bad when you waste others' time, or fail to make them feel good or have fun? Do you feel responsible for people's reactions, and over think how your decisions effect an individual, or overthink the correct way to respond to others' and their expectations? 

*I don't know the reason, to be quite honest lol. I just don't like it. I feel crappy about myself, when they would rather be somewhere else. This makes me avoid putting myself in their situation. If things were to go great and everyone had a blast, then that would boost my confidence, but I still wouldn't volunteer myself to do it again lol. Sorry, thats all I can muster up for that one.*

Why do you hate when people assume things about you? Because they're logically inaccurate, or because they're judgmental, and only you can know yourself? When you figure people out, is it automatic, or do you dwell on this conclusions before you're comfortable with making them? Do you try not to vocalize your opinion out of politeness? Are your Judgments ever so strong that you have trouble keeping your mouth shut, and end up regretting whenever they pop out of your mouth in retrospect?

*I think I already answered the first one above. They just dont know me, so they can't give me anything but a subjective outsiders viewpoint and opinion. I want an objective truth and they won't have it. Anything I do or say in front of them, could have a laundry list of reasons to why I did or said those things. They don't know them, therefore their assumptions are invalid. They may be interesting and a good tool to learn from, but still inaccurate. And once again, I do it to others. I feel like I know people better than they know themselves a lot. Sounds horrible, but I do. I may dwell on things and reasons for sometime, and I will welcome new information to sway my mind for sure. But I am usually at least semi right , from the jump. I won't vocalize unless it is necessary. I will always tell it how it is, but with frosting and sprinkles on top. I don't wanna purposely hurt people. Just gently correct them. But I have no qualms with "goin there" if need be. I will do the gentle route first, and based on their response , will determine my action.*

Interesting. Going out of your way to help the helpless without their permission... are you ever accused of being strident, stubborn or overbearing due to this? Ever feel misunderstood when this happens, because you're only trying to help?

I want to adopt too, when the time is right. I'm not producing my own offspring, but that's a semi unrelated tangent. Why do you need to be their voice or advocate? Why can't the helpless advocate themselves?

People who think they have it worse off than everyone else... is that annoying because they need to just suck it up and deal, to get things done, move on with their lives, rather than painting themselves as the victim? Or is it because it's selfish and arrogant to only consider yourself when so many others are struggling?

*I don't just jump in a save the day for anyone I deem as helpless. I basically meant that it's a 'no-brainer' if I will bend over backwards to help them. I don't usually butt-in. That is awesome you want to adopt! YAYYY!!!! and how can a scared, abused and neglected little child, be their own voice? How can a helpless person help themselves, hence they are helpless...? lol

and I think it is just like, "Seriously? YOU are whining bec you don't have a 2 story house with a pool, meanwhile the kid I met earlier just wants a home with a family that doesn't leave him in his shit all day. While you are crying because nothing is ever enough, think about the ones who are crying bec they don't have a bed.Food. Clothes. Shelter. Parents. They don't even have LOVE." just pathetic. I am not saying I am not guilty of this (I think all have been at one time or another), but I remind myself of these things. See myself through their eyes, and BAM! Magic trick! All better! lol*

I apologize for your abusive upbringing, but it sounds like you've grown stronger from it.  When others are acting in the wrong, you call them out, no matter what they think? Do you feel as if this serves towards the common good?

Savior complex... interesting. Elaborate.

One last question. If something feels right, is it likely correct? Or do you need to think about what feels right in order to not harm those around you?

*Savior Complex = Martyr = sacrifice for whoever I love more than myself. 

Yes. Usually, and if it isn't I will eventually get it right. I think.. lol I have to say, I am probably better at knowing what I find NOT to be right. It is easier to say "I don't know what IS the right thing to do in this situation, but I know what ISN'T the right thing". I tend to use that kind of a way to make decisions. I am the queen at process of elimination. I will gather EVERY SINGLE option available, and then from there eliminate until I am down to a couple top options. Then I will either give it to my husband or let fate decide. That is when I have the TIME to over think things. Sometimes it is better for me to just impulsively go with whatever jumps out at me in the moment. That relieves the stress and crazy thought process, and I will just chalk it up to "Fate".  *


PHEWWWWW, THAT WAS FUNNNN!!! hahaha


----------



## Persephone Soul

Oopsies, dont mind this post... it was a duplicate.


----------



## Dangerose

Hi, sorry to butt in ... looking at your answers above there were a couple of things that seemed Fe.
Do you have the capability to do a video? Sometimes that can give a clearer indication of type (sometimes not haha). I feel like it could help with you.
Sorry, I don't have any questions or anything...I'm sure Hoopla will take care of you though)


----------



## Persephone Soul

Hi, Oswin! Pffft, butt in? Nahhh. Never. 

So the video...Yeah, uhh, well....umm, I've never made one before lol. Hmmm...

and yes, I think hoopla and Arrow will come through. Somebody will. I am patient  lol


----------



## Persephone Soul

@Oswin , I find it so funny how we both see more of Fe in each other (although some Fi as well), but then i think we both see more Fi in ourselves (with Fe as well) . LOL

Hey, out of curiosity, are you German?


----------



## Persephone Soul

Dang it... posted twice again. grrr... don't mind this


----------



## Dangerose

SugarPlum said:


> @Oswin , I find it so funny how we both see more of Fe in each other (although some Fi as well), but then i think we both see more Fi in ourselves (with Fe as well) . LOL
> 
> Hey, out of curiosity, are you German?


Yeah, it's funny -- I guess we're both right on the verge))
No, but I did spend some time in Germany) Why?)


----------



## Persephone Soul

Just all your time there, and I have like 3/4 of it, so i thought that would have been crazy haha


----------



## FluffyTheAnarchist

Blue Soul said:


> Until the questionnaire and before typists come along I'm going to say ISFP.


+1


----------



## Dangerose

SugarPlum said:


> Just all your time there, and I have like 3/4 of it, so i thought that would have been crazy haha


Yeah, I'm not sure if I have any German ancestors or not)
It's a cool place haha))


----------



## Persephone Soul

Okayyyy, so... could everybody that is caught up on this thread, give a type for me? So far I haveseen ISFP, INFP, and ESFJ. ANY others? What are you leaning towards? I wont hold it against yuh, and you could always change your mind lol. You dont even need to give an explanation. .. just a 4-letter-opinion  lol

Gracias!


----------



## Telepathis Goosus

SugarPlum said:


> Okayyyy, so... could everybody that is caught up on this thread, give a type for me? So far I haveseen ISFP, INFP, and ESFJ. ANY others? What are you leaning towards? I wont hold it against yuh, and you could always change your mind lol. You dont even need to give an explanation. .. just a 4-letter-opinion  lol
> 
> Gracias!


I personally think you're an Fi dom of a sort. But what do I know? I'm an Ne dom, my mind is incomprehensible.


----------



## Persephone Soul

LOL , I truly appreciate your opinion. Thank you! ^_^


----------



## Dangerose

I am still leaning toward INFP, but I am by no means certain.


----------



## Persephone Soul

Thank you, Oswin


----------



## Persephone Soul

So somebody not on this forum took a looksie, and mentioned that maybe my Ne was inferior, bec it seems so out of control. What do you think, hoopla and angelcat?


----------



## 68097

You don't have inferior Ne, no. ISFJs do not get up in the morning and want to move five states over because they feel like it. The ISFJ would be the one looking at whomever suggested that like they were crazy and talking them out of it. TOO MUCH CHANGE.

Arrow is probably correct, in his ISFP conclusion.


----------



## Persephone Soul

Hi, 'angelcat'! Thanks for commenting! Wait, Arrow said ISFP?


----------



## Persephone Soul

angelcat said:


> You don't have inferior Ne, no. ISFJs do not get up in the morning and want to move five states over because they feel like it. The ISFJ would be the one looking at whomever suggested that like they were crazy and talking them out of it. TOO MUCH CHANGE.
> 
> Arrow is probably correct, in his ISFP conclusion.



I do know that I would get homesick bec this town is all I have known. I would go indefinitely, but the minute it got rough or hard or I missed here too mu ch, I would probably wanna come back. But I know I would probably do it again. I dont know the second time around with things is always way more successful. The first time is always out of impulsiveness and then i go back, and try again and usually nail it.

And oh yeah i found arrows ISFP guess. I guess i only read the first and last paragraph the first time around. But this time i read the whole thing. Interesting. I can see it, but i am so chicken and lazy, its hard to see aux se. Inferior maybe... hmmm...


----------



## Persephone Soul

I think this ties into what i said earlier. Its like everything is kind of a blur when i am going through something for the first time without guidance. My senses seem off, and i feel panicky. The second time around is lot easier and less blurry. I do see how I could use Se in the way that I love nature, and soaking it in. I could sit under a tree or the sun for hours. I could stare at a flower garden and feel so good. I cant put into word the way these things make me feel. But yoi wont catch me hiking or sky diving or even camping. Too dangerous lol


----------



## Deadly Decorum

I'm conflicted.

I am positive of Ne/Si Si/Ne

Fe/Ti Fi/Te.... not so much. I admit it, I'm confused.

But I'd say choosing from xNFP and xSFJ is a place to start.


----------



## Persephone Soul

Hahaha back to square one, with xSFJ vs xNFP @_ @ LOL


----------



## Persephone Soul

sounds like the consensus here is ESFJ, INFP , or ISFP. 

Anybody think INFJ is an option? That is what I originally thought, and the descriptions have always fit me like a glove. I am the 'wise old owl' according to others. I ALWAYS am getting told I should be a counselor, and that they are "in awe" of my "skills"( sorry that came off as so conceited lol). I know when people are lying etc. I do see symbolism. I know that is all cliche traits, but its true... thoughts?


----------



## Persephone Soul

Very interesting topic. This last comment on this page makes me think I may infact use Fe...? Hmmm...
http://personalitycafe.com/socionic...is.html#/forumsite/20588/topics/530714?page=2


----------



## Persephone Soul

_Here are some more great questions from @Ksara if anyone was interested in looking. I just wanted to add them to the thread so everything is in one place  Thanks Ksara!_

What is your most common state of mind?
*Confusion, anxiety, insecurity,shame, guilt, and thankfulness. Yes, 'thankfulness'. After all that negativity, I am still thankful lol Also, the desire to get my s*** together, make goals etc, but no driving force. Laziness too. I am a mess lol
*

What areas do you feel confident in (where you may feel able to make judgments, share information or comment on)?
*My faith/religion really. Also parenting, and I would say giving advice to other people when they ask for it. I am REALLY good with advice, but I am pretty good with not giving it unless warranted. I am able to be unbiased and give the people the otyher persons perspective. Translating for people I guess. Like; "What she means is..." or " What he is trying to say is...". I don't know why, but I just have confidence in these things.*

What is you natural mode of operation when interactive with people? How do you go about interacting with other people?
*Hmmm, this is kind of vague for me, but it all depends. If I am with only a small handful (as in like 3-4) of ppl, I am very relaxed, yet silly. I can range from being very focused and serious, to being distracted and a goof ball. I am just myself. But when I am meeting new people, I am very shy. I may try my best to look like I am cool and totally not shy, but internally I wanna run for the hills lol. And then there is the times when I feel like the center of attention, and when that happens, I get soooo anxious that I start nervously laughing, talking louder etc. My voice even does this weird higher-pitched thing. It is so weird. When I am nervous like that, I can't focus! I will have people at all angles trying to have a conversation with me and my mind and eyes are SCATTERED. I really frustrate people actually bec I can't just have a "one on one" convo when there is a lot of stimulation going on. That probably wasn't exactly what you were asking, but oh well. LOL I could try and answer it again, if you need me to. *

What mental process do you think you can do with ease over a long period of time.
*hmmm...not quite sure how to answer this, sawwwy lol. Could you be more specific or give an example?*

What are your views on the world, how would you change society?
*To be honest, I think I look at the world through Biblical-Glasses lol. I see it unfolding as it says it will in the Bible, so honestly I have a bitter-sweet view of the world. I think it is a magically, BEAUTIFUL place when you think of all the natural , untainted creation of it all. The trees, FLOWERS, creatures, eco system, etc... It is all amazing how it works, looks, smells, feels, and sounds. But men have tainted it. Seriously, all this electronic stuff makes me sick. I view society honestly, as blind sheep, following the masses to their graves. I just feel like everyone wears blinders and are slowly losing their personal identities and rights, yet they are being fooled that they are being given more rights. I just find society to be less than smart and sad. Society is disheartening to me, but nature is beautiful. I would change it by WAKING EVERYBODY UP! everyone is in a trance. WAKE UP!!! lol, sorry.. that got a little serious haha
*

In what sorts of areas do you feel most confident in giving others advice?
*If I am being honest again ( I love honesty LOL), I give advice to OTHERS most of the time, in the areas that I would NOT want THEIR advice. Like, parenting, marriage, relationships, religion. As horrible as it sounds, I just feel like I don't need your advice in these areas, and if I do, I will ask. But if someone tries to give it unsolicited...NO THANKS. I do however feel like I have such a great skill in seeing these things in an unbiased and untainted way, that I am able to give others the best advice. I feel like I can't trust others to do the same. They may only see things one way, or in partial lenses.*

What parts about yourself do you think relates to "I know I can" ?
*Be everything God needs me to be. I know I keep bringing God into it, and I am sorry. I don't know your stance on religion, so I don't mean top preach nor offend. It is just such a big part of who I am, that I almost feel like it is the reason I am having such a hard time with this. Especially the Fe vs Fi. I kinda think with my faith, it has taught me how to use both. I truly feel like I use both equally.*

Is to more important to stick to what you consider at your core to be right or what you consider to be most appropriate?
*Both. I will consider what is appropriate first, BUT if it does not match my core values, I will NOT waver.*

Are you quite aware of the social roles people play (e.g. Mother, daughter, teacher, student, boss, rebel, courageous leader, etc.)?
*I am completely aware. I think everyone is 'aware'. Do I feel like everyone has a role to play? Yeah, I guess you could say that. Like for instance, if my kids TEACHER decided she wanted to play MOMMY, this Mommy right here, would be showing HER who is 'BOSS'! LOL. Like seriously, don't mess with MY kids. They are MINE. I'm their Mother. So I guess in that aspect, yeah.."stick to your role". Not quite sure if anyone doesn't value 'roles'. I can't even think of an example. Can you?*

Do you understand and comply to the rules relevant to the relationships between these roles (for example there are different social rules for a student teacher relationship compared to a student to student relationship)?*
Oh, yes! So maybe that was the example I needed? lol. Sure! Bec if we don't give jurisdictions and have a set of boundaries for each role, then how would the world function? I mean, does that mean that there are actually people out there that feel like crossing those lines are okay? Is it okay for a Father and a Daughter to become lovers, just bec they don't adhere to the rules according to "roles"? That is just weird to me. I think everyone, unless mentally unstable would adhere to 'roles'. No?*

Do you rely on others feedback to help define yourself as a person and do you adjust you behavior so that how others respond to you is inline with the identity you want to have (or believe you are)?
(feedback could be the of voice, a certain look, body language, tone inflection, etc. not just someone telling you what they think)
*Again, I welcome feedback (even though it may hurt), and almost strive for it... and I will adjust accordingly just bec it makes ME feel uncomfortable if their feedback (in any form) is negative. BUT if their feedback opposes my core values, I won't budge. I may try and smooth it over and even agree to disagree if they won't see it my way, but I will not give in. EVER.*

Are you likely to put aside what you want for someone else as this is the right thing to do, that is you believe it s not always about you?*
Depends. Mostly it depends who it is for and what it is I desire. If it is the few people I love more than myself (kids, husband, mother, sister) then yep, I would give up my life for them (only), so why wouldn't I give up some silly worldly desire for them? Now if we are talking about just anybody... it still depends. I will do what is right. What my core tells me is right. If that means sacrificing for someone else, I will..bec my heart tells me to. I won't give my last $5 to a homeless man on the street bec society says i should. They can mind their own business. But I will give my very last $5 on the way into Wal-Mart to buy eggs milk and bread for my family, if MY CONSCIENCE says I should. And I have. Actually, when I think more about it, society these days would probably tell me to KEEP my last $5 bec I need to feed my family lol.
*
Are you a good person and so commit a good deed, or because you commit a good deed you are a good person?
*I am not a good person, but I will commit good deeds. We all fall short, and no one I think has the right to bear that title. We can be good hearted people, but not good people. That is just my opinion. So I think I am a good HEARTED person WHO commits good deeds, when my heart tells me to. For me, I just don't see any other answer. So neither lol*

What is more important, the action observed or the intent behind the action?
*Intent. Although both. They work in tandem, but intent is of more value.*


----------



## Dangerose

I'm getting strong ESFJ vibes now; anyone else see it?


----------



## Persephone Soul

Oswin said:


> I'm getting strong ESFJ vibes now; anyone else see it?


hmmm...maybe. So are you still settled on ESFJ for yourself? Did you see similarities in my responses at all?

I just really feel like i am an introvert. And my Ne is wacky lol i dont know if that means inferior or higher up.

@angelcat , is this inferior Ne for yuh, or just my anxiety... or both? Lol... okay so, i was going to get a weight loss surgery but I cant do it. I don't know what will come of it. I could die, or have complications. Worse case scenarios up the wazoo! 

And then, is tgis Te? I will get in yhese moods wherea fire is lit under my @$$ to get my s**** together I will come up with a concrete solid plan to lose the weight (and change ny life around drastically). I will be completely organized and ready to rock, but then... it never sticks and i hate routine/regimen/rules. Ugh


----------



## Kurt Wagner

ISFP 7?

I don't know, you're confusing. :tongue:


----------



## Dangerose

SugarPlum said:


> hmmm...maybe. So are you still settled on ESFJ for yourself? Did you see similarities in my responses at all?
> 
> I just really feel like i am an introvert. And my Ne is wacky lol i dont know if that means inferior or higher up.
> @angelcat , is this inferior Ne for yuh, or just my anxiety... or both? Lol... okay so, i was going to get a weight loss surgery but I cant do it. I don't know what will come of it. I could die, or have complications. Worse case scenarios up the wazoo!
> 
> And then, is tgis Te? I will get in yhese moods wherea fire is lit under my @$$ to get my s**** together I will come up with a concrete solid plan to lose the weight (and change ny life around drastically). I will be completely organized and ready to rock, but then... it never sticks and i hate routine/regimen/rules. Ugh


I'm still not sure. :/ I would recommend you do a video...it really might help.

I'm not sure the link went through to @angelcat -- I would suggest that this is less inferior Ne and more being cautious about a medical procedure that could have unwanted consequences. I don't know anyone of any type who would just up and get weight loss surgery , or any surgery, without serious consideration. 

I end up doing the same thing with diets, so I don't think it's a Te thing necessarily. For me it's not that I hate sticking to a schedule though -- this seems more like you have Ne as dom or aux (or Se I guess), rather it's that I'll sabotage my plans and I get this thing, maybe it's a Si thing, but like, "This didn't work in the past so it's not going to work again." And I don't know, my perfectionism gets in the way (I still think this is sort of Si-ish but it could be something else). Like, "I am going to be _perfect_, not going to break this regime..." and then "What a pity it would be if someone bought this whole tin of shortbread" and then, well, the whole plan's ruined. Have to start all over.

Now I'm thinking you are INFP. Sorry I keep flip-flopping. Ignore everything I say.


----------



## 68097

Worst case scenarios is pretty much a staple of inferior Ne, but based on our other interactions -- I don't think you have inferior Ne at all. I think you're an IXFP of some sort. 

Can two opposing arguments be true at the same time?


----------



## Persephone Soul

angelcat said:


> Worst case scenarios is pretty much a staple of inferior Ne, but based on our other interactions -- I don't think you have inferior Ne at all. I think you're an IXFP of some sort.
> 
> Can two opposing arguments be true at the same time?



Good question. I dont really know. Is there an example? I know that I play devils advocate a lot when i am trying to make a decision. Its one of my ways for processing information, to get to the final decision. But when somebody says one thing , i will oppose it with plausible factors. My intent is that I want them to PROVE my factors I offer wrong with proof. Facts. Logical reasoning. But if they cant then it could keep going around in circles. If they can then i narrow it down. I WANT that one objective truth, but I do tend to SEE many variations. It makes me uneasy though. I feel like there is one truth to mostly everything. It doesnt matter what our opinions are, bec truth is truth. There is only one. But i go around in circles from different perspectives on the matter and hardly ever get to that truth. Grrr


----------



## Persephone Soul

Luke Skywalker said:


> ISFP 7?
> 
> I don't know, you're confusing.



LMBO! Is that even common? Lol

Prob not. I am not THAT easy going. In fact i could be pretty high strung when i get overwhelmed.

Thank you for the , uh, "compliment" LOL. yes I am aware i am very contradicting. I have been told by many I am a hard one to nail down and a bit of an Enigma. I hate it. I want to be in a box sometimes bec i would feel like a i belong lol. But i have never felt like i belong to just one category. Like in high school, i was never the prep, cheerleader, band geek, athlete, emo, gangster, genius, over achiever, wall flower, book worm, weirdo, unpopular, popular, student council etc etc etc. I never fit any of those all though my friends all did.


----------



## Persephone Soul

Oswin, I have no idea how to do video an what would say lol

and omg you're so funny, i flip flip with everything too! Like i said to angelcat, i see every side of things and change my perspective a lot, like i am doing with this typology stuff... but yet i want that one final truth. Once an for all. Buy i will never get to it on my own, hence the need for outside help and consensus. 

I am always quick to judge with my values though. Right off the bat. I dont need others views on that part of my life. Although if someone can prove to me, how my values are in the wrong, i may consider it and reassess. ...

i guess my biggest reservation about the IxFP is that i am super outspoken and will give my opinion on things i find immoral. do try and get people to see my way of things, but if the dont i agree to disagree. It isnt worth it. IxFPs seem so, well.... meek and quiet. And keep their feelings and judgments to themselves for the most part. I am also very emotional. Not with strangers, (who is? Lol).. but with people i know, i am very open. 

Devil's advocate for yuh again lol


----------



## Telepathis Goosus

SugarPlum said:


> I'm still not sure. :/ I would recommend you do a video...it really might help.
> 
> I'm not sure the link went through to @angelcat -- I would suggest that this is less inferior Ne and more being cautious about a medical procedure that could have unwanted consequences. I don't know anyone of any type who would just up and get weight loss surgery , or any surgery, without serious consideration.
> 
> I end up doing the same thing with diets, so I don't think it's a Te thing necessarily. For me it's not that I hate sticking to a schedule though -- this seems more like you have Ne as dom or aux (or Se I guess), rather it's that I'll sabotage my plans and I get this thing, maybe it's a Si thing, but like, "This didn't work in the past so it's not going to work again." And I don't know, my perfectionism gets in the way (I still think this is sort of Si-ish but it could be something else). Like, "I am going to be _perfect_, not going to break this regime..." and then "What a pity it would be if someone bought this whole tin of shortbread" and then, well, the whole plan's ruined. Have to start all over.
> 
> Now I'm thinking you are INFP. Sorry I keep flip-flopping. Ignore everything I say.
> 
> 
> Oswin, I have no idea how to do video an what would say lol
> 
> and omg you're so funny, i flip flip with everything too! Like i said to angelcat, i see every side of things and change my perspective a lot, like i am doing with this typology stuff... but yet i want that one final truth. Once an for all. Buy i will never get to it on my own, hence the need for outside help and consensus.
> 
> I am always quick to judge with my values though. Right off the bat. I dont need others views on that part of my life. Although if someone can prove to me, how my values are in the wrong, i may consider it and reassess. ...
> 
> i guess my biggest reservation about the IxFP is that i am super outspoken and will give my opinion on things i find immoral. do try and get people to see my way of things, but if the dont i agree to disagree. It isnt worth it. IxFPs seem so, well.... meek and quiet. And keep their feelings and judgments to themselves for the most part. I am also very emotional. Not with strangers, (who is? Lol).. but with people i know, i am very open.
> 
> Devil's advocate for yuh again lol


Have you considered ENFP?


----------



## Deadly Decorum

What is your most common state of mind?
*Confusion, anxiety, insecurity,shame, guilt, and thankfulness. Yes, 'thankfulness'. After all that negativity, I am still thankful lol Also, the desire to get my s*** together, make goals etc, but no driving force. Laziness too. I am a mess lol
*

I think what's interesting here is the frankness and bluntness of Feeling... it doesn't come across as internalized to me.

What areas do you feel confident in (where you may feel able to make judgments, share information or comment on)?
*My faith/religion really. Also parenting, and I would say giving advice to other people when they ask for it. I am REALLY good with advice, but I am pretty good with not giving it unless warranted. I am able to be unbiased and give the people the otyher persons perspective. Translating for people I guess. Like; "What she means is..." or " What he is trying to say is...". I don't know why, but I just have confidence in these things.*

This strikes me as Fe, especially the "unless it's warranted" part. I'm guessing you give advice based on the atmosphere or mood of the environment, if it will feel appropriate to do so. 

What is you natural mode of operation when interactive with people? How do you go about interacting with other people?
*Hmmm, this is kind of vague for me, but it all depends. If I am with only a small handful (as in like 3-4) of ppl, I am very relaxed, yet silly. I can range from being very focused and serious, to being distracted and a goof ball. I am just myself. But when I am meeting new people, I am very shy. I may try my best to look like I am cool and totally not shy, but internally I wanna run for the hills lol. And then there is the times when I feel like the center of attention, and when that happens, I get soooo anxious that I start nervously laughing, talking louder etc. My voice even does this weird higher-pitched thing. It is so weird. When I am nervous like that, I can't focus! I will have people at all angles trying to have a conversation with me and my mind and eyes are SCATTERED. I really frustrate people actually bec I can't just have a "one on one" convo when there is a lot of stimulation going on. That probably wasn't exactly what you were asking, but oh well. LOL I could try and answer it again, if you need me to. *

Again, some exaggeration of Feeling here, and I get the impression it's quite difficult for you to hide it or internalize it, as if you're bursting in flames and just have to release it.


What mental process do you think you can do with ease over a long period of time.
*hmmm...not quite sure how to answer this, sawwwy lol. Could you be more specific or give an example?*

This is interesting... I wonder if this might be indicative of weak Ji... I'm merely hypothesizing, don't blame me. 

What are your views on the world, how would you change society?
*To be honest, I think I look at the world through Biblical-Glasses lol. I see it unfolding as it says it will in the Bible, so honestly I have a bitter-sweet view of the world. I think it is a magically, BEAUTIFUL place when you think of all the natural , untainted creation of it all. The trees, FLOWERS, creatures, eco system, etc... It is all amazing how it works, looks, smells, feels, and sounds. But men have tainted it. Seriously, all this electronic stuff makes me sick. I view society honestly, as blind sheep, following the masses to their graves. I just feel like everyone wears blinders and are slowly losing their personal identities and rights, yet they are being fooled that they are being given more rights. I just find society to be less than smart and sad. Society is disheartening to me, but nature is beautiful. I would change it by WAKING EVERYBODY UP! everyone is in a trance. WAKE UP!!! lol, sorry.. that got a little serious haha
*

I see Ne here, also Si in the fact your view of reality is sort of tainted by a myth, a way things should be that is rather heavy hammered, and nailed downed and stubborn in it's ways. You're also quite rosy, romantic and mystical in your views of the world, idealistic, romantic, storybook-ish. Ne, of course, but it's quite common with ESFJ's for some reason. Of course some of these things sound Fi-ish, and may very well be... but I'm not taking Fe off the table.

In what sorts of areas do you feel most confident in giving others advice?
*If I am being honest again ( I love honesty LOL), I give advice to OTHERS most of the time, in the areas that I would NOT want THEIR advice. Like, parenting, marriage, relationships, religion. As horrible as it sounds, I just feel like I don't need your advice in these areas, and if I do, I will ask. But if someone tries to give it unsolicited...NO THANKS. I do however feel like I have such a great skill in seeing these things in an unbiased and untainted way, that I am able to give others the best advice. I feel like I can't trust others to do the same. They may only see things one way, or in partial lenses.*

Interesting... others are too narrow minded and stringent in their view... Ne? And the whole advice giving, love of honesty, it gives the impression of an externalized feeling. Open book sort of thing. Reactionary. 


What parts about yourself do you think relates to "I know I can" ?
*Be everything God needs me to be. I know I keep bringing God into it, and I am sorry. I don't know your stance on religion, so I don't mean top preach nor offend. It is just such a big part of who I am, that I almost feel like it is the reason I am having such a hard time with this. Especially the Fe vs Fi. I kinda think with my faith, it has taught me how to use both. I truly feel like I use both equally.*

I like how you take care to make sure you're not preachy or offensive... clearly you care how your opinions affect others, correct? Fe and Fi do not compute. They are quite incompatible as a pair... not relationship wise, but cognitive wise. I don't really think Fe users use Fi. I deeply try to repress my feelings, bottle them up, forget they exist, but they bubble out and become quite real and obvious. I find I have to tell someone how I feel at the very least... it makes me wish I didn't feel for this very reason, haha. It's so interesting, trying to bottle my feelings, and yet they're a burning external flame. I yap to people about my innermost feelings more than I'd like to admit. I just cannot internalize them. It's not my nature to do so. When I keep quite about my beliefs, I have to blog about them, tell someone about them behind the scenes. Fe and Fi cancel each other out. I don't know how Fe and Fi could work in one person... it probably wouldn't make for a real person, rather, a cartoon character. Maybe Bebe is correct... I don't know.


Is to more important to stick to what you consider at your core to be right or what you consider to be most appropriate?
*Both. I will consider what is appropriate first, BUT if it does not match my core values, I will NOT waver.*

Yeah the fact that the Feelings of others are more instinctive towards your decisions is really making me think Fe here. Fe wants to attach to the object. Does it fit with the object or not? That's very important... that's why appropriateness is so valued with Fe types, especially Fe doms. Contrary to popular belief, Fe is not a mindless drone. There are certain things I will not do. I wonder, when people go against your values, how you react. Do you tell everyone all about it, discuss why you find their views immoral? Or do you internalize everything?


Are you quite aware of the social roles people play (e.g. Mother, daughter, teacher, student, boss, rebel, courageous leader, etc.)?
*I am completely aware. I think everyone is 'aware'. Do I feel like everyone has a role to play? Yeah, I guess you could say that. Like for instance, if my kids TEACHER decided she wanted to play MOMMY, this Mommy right here, would be showing HER who is 'BOSS'! LOL. Like seriously, don't mess with MY kids. They are MINE. I'm their Mother. So I guess in that aspect, yeah.."stick to your role". Not quite sure if anyone doesn't value 'roles'. I can't even think of an example. Can you?*

You can't fathom why people wouldn't value roles because you are very likely an Fe. 

Do you understand and comply to the rules relevant to the relationships between these roles (for example there are different social rules for a student teacher relationship compared to a student to student relationship)?*
Oh, yes! So maybe that was the example I needed? lol. Sure! Bec if we don't give jurisdictions and have a set of boundaries for each role, then how would the world function? I mean, does that mean that there are actually people out there that feel like crossing those lines are okay? Is it okay for a Father and a Daughter to become lovers, just bec they don't adhere to the rules according to "roles"? That is just weird to me. I think everyone, unless mentally unstable would adhere to 'roles'. No?*

Holy Fe. 

Do you rely on others feedback to help define yourself as a person and do you adjust you behavior so that how others respond to you is inline with the identity you want to have (or believe you are)?
(feedback could be the of voice, a certain look, body language, tone inflection, etc. not just someone telling you what they think)
*Again, I welcome feedback (even though it may hurt), and almost strive for it... and I will adjust accordingly just bec it makes ME feel uncomfortable if their feedback (in any form) is negative. BUT if their feedback opposes my core values, I won't budge. I may try and smooth it over and even agree to disagree if they won't see it my way, but I will not give in. EVER.*

This is interesting, it gives me the opinion you will play along to get along, because it's easier, but you still win because you still align yourself to what you consider good, right or justice, even if others don't agree. All this "respect others' differences" stuff, setting it all aside. You sound like a compromise queen. Good skill to have. I still think Fe.


Are you likely to put aside what you want for someone else as this is the right thing to do, that is you believe it s not always about you?*
Depends. Mostly it depends who it is for and what it is I desire. If it is the few people I love more than myself (kids, husband, mother, sister) then yep, I would give up my life for them (only), so why wouldn't I give up some silly worldly desire for them? Now if we are talking about just anybody... it still depends. I will do what is right. What my core tells me is right. If that means sacrificing for someone else, I will..bec my heart tells me to. I won't give my last $5 to a homeless man on the street bec society says i should. They can mind their own business. But I will give my very last $5 on the way into Wal-Mart to buy eggs milk and bread for my family, if MY CONSCIENCE says I should. And I have. Actually, when I think more about it, society these days would probably tell me to KEEP my last $5 bec I need to feed my family lol.
*

Notice how much you pay attention to society, to other people, to what is externally valued and disvalued. Also I don't buy this "Fi sticks to it's core values" shit. Everyone sticks to their core values. It depends on what these values are based on... yours come across as externalized. Your family. Sacrifice. You won't give money to the homeless because your *family* needs it. Notice the externalized Feeling here?

Are you a good person and so commit a good deed, or because you commit a good deed you are a good person?
*I am not a good person, but I will commit good deeds. We all fall short, and no one I think has the right to bear that title. We can be good hearted people, but not good people. That is just my opinion. So I think I am a good HEARTED person WHO commits good deeds, when my heart tells me to. For me, I just don't see any other answer. So neither lol*

I definitely get the sense of a Feeling dom here. Good, bad, worthy, unworthy. Notice these themes and how central they are to all of your posts.

For some reason I cannot quite explain in words.... I just get the sense of an extrovert here. You have the energy of one. My ESFJ mother thought she was an introvert too. That was quite funny to me. She acts introverted when her Si acts up. For instance, the grocery store drains her, because it's chaotic and noisy and out of control. She also over thinks how she acts around people, trying to mirror their intentions exactly, give the crowd exactly what it needs or wants, causing her to be shy in new situations (in a similar manner to you, may I add). If I invested that much energy into the crowd, I'd be exhausted too. But overall her main drive is people... when she's alone she needs people. She'll call me when no once else answers because she needs to let those feelings out. That to me is an indicator of Fe dominance. When I'm upset, I actually prefer to be alone so I can think about why I feel the way I do. Then I get all mushy and Fe with people about them once they've been fully sorted and analyzed. I wonder if @angelcat can relate.

I don't know... even within your first post I got the sense of an Fe dom. Just a vibe or energy you evoke within me. Externalized Feeling just blasts me in the face through the very tone of your posts. 

I don't think you're an Ne dom. It's definitely conscious and within strong use, but from your previous posts it feels like Si serves first. You're probably a Feeling dom... so I'd go with ESFJ or INFP. 

I wonder what @arkigos would have to say if he's so inclined. He's the xNFP expert after all.


----------



## Deadly Decorum

Oswin said:


> I end up doing the same thing with diets, so I don't think it's a Te thing necessarily. For me it's not that I hate sticking to a schedule though -- this seems more like you have Ne as dom or aux (or Se I guess), rather it's that I'll sabotage my plans and I get this thing, maybe it's a Si thing, but like, "This didn't work in the past so it's not going to work again." And I don't know, my perfectionism gets in the way (I still think this is sort of Si-ish but it could be something else). Like, "I am going to be _perfect_, not going to break this regime..." and then "What a pity it would be if someone bought this whole tin of shortbread" and then, well, the whole plan's ruined. Have to start all over.


That's interesting! My mother and grandmother are both ESFJ's. They do the exact same thing, and for the exact same reasonings as you. I do the same thing with diets, for the same reasons. I'm not here saying xSFJs cannot have a healthy diet, as behavior =/= cognition, but the reasoning behind the behavior does. So is this an Si thing? Fascinating! I definitely think giving up and just blowing all efforts when you "fail" is part of the perfectionistic Si mentality... I relate, but I've gotten better as I've aged. Still gets me though.

What I found best is making meal plans as I used to have serious problems with being a grazer/neglecting food (still do), forcing myself to eat, and of course just loading my house with healthy food and avoiding environments that contain unhealthy food. That way, no perfectionism is really in place, nor is any pressure. I don't count calories (I actually find calorie counting to be an unhealthy practice but that's another story), and when I have a craving, I supplement it with a healthier replica (kale chips) because if I go out and buy my comfort food, I'll revert to my old ways. I find the longer I stay with a healthier diet, the more my palate reverses itself. I cannot eat fast food anymore for instance... disgusting. It's soda that I struggle with immensely. Shit. A water bottle at all times helps.


----------



## Persephone Soul

Awesome feedback everyone! Much appreciated! 

And, hoopla, thank you! That was very detailed. Okay, so.. i just wanted to add quickly that reading back my own responses makes me a little queasy lol. The only reason i keep emphasizing "my core values blah blah blah", is bec i have been answering different questions from different people, and i am not sure if they read it about this from previous answers or bot. I need to make sure understand that my "core values" are mine. Not mens. Not societies. Mine. Yes they are generated from the Bible, but i am quite rebellious of any set religious practices as well as my religious upbringing. I pulled back and developed my own sense of morality based on the bible and god alone. I find it hard to attend church these days bec of the fact that i can bot stand men thinking they have authority to tell THEIR subjective interpretation of something i see as an objective truth. 

Anyway, just wanted to add that. I do come off as a "i am am my OWN person blah blah blah" abnoxious person with all the self righteous crap. Lol


----------



## Deadly Decorum

SugarPlum said:


> Awesome feedback everyone! Much appreciated!
> 
> And, hoopla, thank you! That was very detailed. Okay, so.. i just wanted to add quickly that reading back my own responses makes me a little queasy lol. The only reason i keep emphasizing "my core values blah blah blah", is bec i have been answering different questions from different people, and i am not sure if they read it about this from previous answers or bot. I need to make sure understand that my "core values" are mine. Not mens. Not societies. Mine. Yes they are generated from the Bible, but i am quite rebellious of any set religious practices as well as my religious upbringing. I pulled back and developed my own sense of morality based on the bible and god alone. I find it hard to attend church these days bec of the fact that i can bot stand men thinking they have authority to tell THEIR subjective interpretation of something i see as an objective truth.
> 
> Anyway, just wanted to add that. I do come off as a "i am am my OWN person blah blah blah" abnoxious person with all the self righteous crap. Lol


Kinda sounds like some Ne with a dislike of Te here... I swear most Fe types I know dislike authority and find it to be harsh and controlling. I'm guessing you like expanding your religion? You don't like a religion that's absolute? 

Like this, maybe?






What I meant is your sort of reject society as it is... you want an archaic society based on your own views of it... loved the hatred of technology.  Cemented my idea of Si being stronger than Ne, actually. But you definitely have Ne, and a strong use of it too!

Also I skimmed more of your posts... that post about needing to belong, wishing you could belong to a stereotype or group... that's Fe as hell. I was the exact same way growing up. I wanted to belong to a clique, for that very reason... the sense of belonging, but I denied it because "poser". I was an outcast, made fun of... and I wanted so badly to belong to a group. Fi detests that very idea. It goes against their being.

Maybe an INFP.... I'm interested in the idea. I definitely think feeling dom, Si/Ne in some order. Would be hard to steer me in a different direction. If anyone wants to make a solid argument for INFP, go ahead... but I lean towards Fe dom tbh.


----------



## Persephone Soul

Oh yeah, i completely forgot to say how, i think i am an introvert for sure. I do not need people at all. Give me the rain, some tea, a snuggy and Netflix and you wont hear from me for a week. I mean, i am constantly with my husband and kids, but my extroverted mom is always like, i wanna seee you. I am like, i just did a week ago. Why? Lol. I also at the grocery store do get overwhelmed as well. I am like , "get me out of here". Too many people, voices etc. I prefer to shop by myself or with maybe my husband. I would go crazy if i had a booked week in my planner. I am a housewife (blah) that stays home every day pretty much, and i still dont wanna book up my planner. I wanna just get up and go, but on ny terms lol. I dont want an appointment to see people. I barely want to see people. I will admit though, i do want to share ny feelings and thoughts with those 5 certain people in my life. Not everyone. If i didnt have them, then i would find a new victim to cling to i guess. Bec yes i do need to let it out in some way, but not to a lot. Only a select few.


----------



## Persephone Soul

hoopla said:


> SugarPlum said:
> 
> 
> 
> Awesome feedback everyone! Much appreciated!
> 
> And, hoopla, thank you! That was very detailed. Okay, so.. i just wanted to add quickly that reading back my own responses makes me a little queasy lol. The only reason i keep emphasizing "my core values blah blah blah", is bec i have been answering different questions from different people, and i am not sure if they read it about this from previous answers or bot. I need to make sure understand that my "core values" are mine. Not mens. Not societies. Mine. Yes they are generated from the Bible, but i am quite rebellious of any set religious practices as well as my religious upbringing. I pulled back and developed my own sense of morality based on the bible and god alone. I find it hard to attend church these days bec of the fact that i can bot stand men thinking they have authority to tell THEIR subjective interpretation of something i see as an objective truth.
> 
> Anyway, just wanted to add that. I do come off as a "i am am my OWN person blah blah blah" abnoxious person with all the self righteous crap. Lol
> 
> 
> 
> Kinda sounds like some Ne with a dislike of Te here... I swear most Fe types I know dislike authority and find it to be harsh and controlling. I'm guessing you like expanding your religion? You don't like a religion that's absolute?
> 
> Like this, maybe?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also I skimmed more of your posts... that post about needing to belong, wishing you could belong to a stereotype or group... that's Fe as hell. I was the exact same way growing up. I wanted to belong to a clique, for that very reason... the sense of belonging, but I denied it because "poser". I was an outcast, made fun of... and I wanted so badly to belong to a group. Fi detests that very idea. It goes against their being.
Click to expand...

i can def relate a bit, just the only difference is, i KNOW what I believe. It IS set for me. I know exactly what my morals are. What i personally find immoral and what I find acceptable. I also am fully aware that not everyone will see it my way, so i wont be like those self righteous a - holes who think they can force others to come to their subjective opinions. I most definitely feel like MY way IS the right way, BUT i wont force others to see it my way. i mean, how could anyone force anyone what to believe. I will most definitely share my views in hopes they will see it my way. But if they dont, i let it go... even if i truly feel like my ways are the one and only truth, it doesn't make a difference if someone changes their mind bec i convinced them. Morality comes from within. Then agreeing with me bec i manipulate them into doing so, beats the whole purpose of what i view morality to be. Its all subjective yes, but one of them still has to be the one truth. Everyone just had their own way of finding it. Sorry that really went off a tangent. Lol


----------



## Persephone Soul

Oh and hoopla, yes... i did wanna fit in. But it was more like i wanted to be able to say, "yeah i am part of the cheerleader group" bec i would just be so much simpler. I was a little part of everything but never just one. Like, I was accepted by all, but I never found one that just felt like "home" lol. I was just, Jackie. Always. When the jock crowd got too rowdy or superficial, i gravitated towards the calmer folks. I always had a set of a few close friends, but they fit into a box better than i did. I would never call myself any of those, even though it would have been easier lol. Its like "describe Jackie. Who is she?" ... and someone would say "uhh, well she is short, big boobs, blonde , big butt, umm quiet in class but silly outside of class..." ..." no no, like WHO is she? Not what does she look like"... "oh, uhhh... i dnt really know. I mean she is Jamie's (the smart girl's) best friend... she is chrissys (the town whores) friend. She is kristies (the pot heads) friend. "... "okay, so WHO is she?"... " i dont know... she is just jackie".

Lol, kinda like that. Its like i want to be boxed in so it would be easier for me and not so complex. Yet refuse to be. Idk, i am annoying, abnoxiously, overwhelming, CONFUSING lol


----------



## Deadly Decorum

SugarPlum said:


> Oh yeah, i completely forgot to say how, i think i am an introvert for sure. I do not need people at all. Give me the rain, some tea, a snuggy and Netflix and you wont hear from me for a week. I mean, i am constantly with my husband and kids, but my extroverted mom is always like, i wanna seee you. I am like, i just did a week ago. Why? Lol. I also at the grocery store do get overwhelmed as well. I am like , "get me out of here". Too many people, voices etc. I prefer to shop by myself or with maybe my husband. I would go crazy if i had a booked week in my planner. I am a housewife (blah) that stays home every day pretty much, and i still dont wanna book up my planner. I wanna just get up and go, but on ny terms lol. I dont want an appointment to see people. I barely want to see people. I will admit though, i do want to share ny feelings and thoughts with those 5 certain people in my life. Not everyone. If i didnt have them, then i would find a new victim to cling to i guess. Bec yes i do need to let it out in some way, but not to a lot. Only a select few.


It's important to remember that introversion and extroversion is a scale, and some people are more introverted and extroverted than others. My mom is definitely an extrovert, and she's not a life of the party type. She could definitely chill for 3 days alone in her pajamas, but after awhile she needs people. I myself can act extroverted at times. This is because no one is a pure introvert or extrovert. What I find best is to determine your dominate function over your behaviors, as that can be a rather confusing aspect in determining introversion and extroversion. 

Ha... my mom could essentially be you in terms of the grocery store. I actually don't mind it at all. I really don't find it draining or obnoxious, unless kids are screaming on the floor. Essentially, I get my things and leave. Done. My mother... it's hell for her. Cites the same reasons as you, and even self diagnosed herself with sensory processing (I don't think she has it at all, tbh... I think what she thinks is a "disorder' is actually Si). The things you posted here, in general, are the Si side of you. 

As for discussing your feelings, I don't think Fe tells everyone their life story. Fe is intelligent enough not to do so. However what you've expressed here is Fe. You just told me that it's difficult for you to internalize your feelings. I know for me, I can have an excellent grasp on my feelings and internalizing them, but occasionally they come out rather hammy and exaggerated. Something will blow and my feelings explode. That's generally Fe in my mind. Something will trigger, and they just come out, or you try to suppress your feelings and fail because they're written all over your face.


----------



## Ksara

SugarPlum said:


> Oh yeah, i completely forgot to say how, i think i am an introvert for sure. I do not need people at all. Give me the rain, some tea, a snuggy and Netflix and you wont hear from me for a week. I mean, i am constantly with my husband and kids, but my extroverted mom is always like, i wanna seee you. I am like, i just did a week ago. Why? Lol. I also at the grocery store do get overwhelmed as well. I am like , "get me out of here". Too many people, voices etc. I prefer to shop by myself or with maybe my husband. I would go crazy if i had a booked week in my planner. I am a housewife (blah) that stays home every day pretty much, and i still dont wanna book up my planner. I wanna just get up and go, but on ny terms lol. I dont want an appointment to see people. I barely want to see people. I will admit though, i do want to share ny feelings and thoughts with those 5 certain people in my life. Not everyone. If i didnt have them, then i would find a new victim to cling to i guess. Bec yes i do need to let it out in some way, but not to a lot. Only a select few.



Ok which would you last longer doing:
At home, with some tea, snuggled up on the couch watching Netflix with NO human contact to share thoughts and feelings, or to have people around you that you trust on a CONSTANT basis that are willing to share feelings and their thoughts?

Do you think you take in everything around you or is you attention predominately in your head (e.g. How you feel, level of comfort, thinking, imagining, daydreaming)?

Also, when things aren't quite making sense or you are upset, do you want to share your feelings with someone you trust or do you retreat from others to figure things out yourself?

Also what are you like when things get stressful?


----------



## Persephone Soul

hoopla said:


> SugarPlum said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh yeah, i completely forgot to say how, i think i am an introvert for sure. I do not need people at all. Give me the rain, some tea, a snuggy and Netflix and you wont hear from me for a week. I mean, i am constantly with my husband and kids, but my extroverted mom is always like, i wanna seee you. I am like, i just did a week ago. Why? Lol. I also at the grocery store do get overwhelmed as well. I am like , "get me out of here". Too many people, voices etc. I prefer to shop by myself or with maybe my husband. I would go crazy if i had a booked week in my planner. I am a housewife (blah) that stays home every day pretty much, and i still dont wanna book up my planner. I wanna just get up and go, but on ny terms lol. I dont want an appointment to see people. I barely want to see people. I will admit though, i do want to share ny feelings and thoughts with those 5 certain people in my life. Not everyone. If i didnt have them, then i would find a new victim to cling to i guess. Bec yes i do need to let it out in some way, but not to a lot. Only a select few.
> 
> 
> 
> It's important to remember that introversion and extroversion is a scale, and some people are more introverted and extroverted than others. My mom is definitely an extrovert, and she's not a life of the party type. She could definitely chill for 3 days alone in her pajamas, but after awhile she needs people. I myself can act extroverted at times. This is because no one is a pure introvert or extrovert. What I find best is to determine your dominate function over your behaviors, as that can be a rather confusing aspect in determining introversion and extroversion.
> 
> Ha... my mom could essentially be you in terms of the grocery store. I actually don't mind it at all. I really don't find it draining or obnoxious, unless kids are screaming on the floor. Essentially, I get my things and leave. Done. My mother... it's hell for her. Cites the same reasons as you, and even self diagnosed herself with sensory processing (I don't think she has it at all, tbh... I think what she thinks is a "disorder' is actually Si). The things you posted here, in general, are the Si side of you.
> 
> As for discussing your feelings, I don't think Fe tells everyone their life story. Fe is intelligent enough not to do so. However what you've expressed here is Fe. You just told me that it's difficult for you to internalize your feelings. I know for me, I can have an excellent grasp on my feelings and internalizing them, but occasionally they come out rather hammy and exaggerated. Something will blow and my feelings explode. That's generally Fe in my mind. Something will trigger, and they just come out, or you try to suppress your feelings and fail because they're written all over your face.
Click to expand...

This makes total sense. Your mom sounds HILARIOUS to me for some reason lol. So i just asked my husband if i was very emotionally expressive. HE said " umm, no! You get emotional a lot, yes! But you wont say whats going on in your brain unless you feel like it NEEDS to be heard. Otherwise, i just see your hamster turning its wheel in your head. You get all emotional sometimes and then they come flowing out, and you expect others to be on the same level as you emotionally at that point bec you're so revved up. It takes. lot for you to say "i love you". When i tell you i love you, you say "awe". But then you will all the sudden catch me off guard and b like "i l-l-l-love y-y-you". And im like, uhh, why? Whats wrong? But when you feel like someone has disrespected and crossed the line with whatever it is you believe strongly about, watch out!"

LOL! so yes i paraphrased a wee bit, bec i dont type 80wpm, but that is pretty much the gist. I am pretty good at memory, so i think i got it all. So what does that mean? Lol


----------



## Pressed Flowers

Honestly I didn't respond earlier although notified to because I agreed with what had been said, that you were definitely INFP. Looking just at this last page though, I can really see how you could actually use Fe. I relate to a lot of what you've said, especially the frustration with not fitting into a group and wanting to. That's like, extremely Fe, or at least it seems very Fe on the outside  To give like a relevant experience of mine, I regretted not joining band at age 12 all throughout high school because, even though the band kids at my school were very pretentious and honestly unkind to others,no was somjealousnof the sense of community they had. I eventually got some idea of that community - I was an integral part of my school's drama program, I plugged myself into a lot of clubs without even consciously realizing it at the time - but I still regretted not joining band throughout school, because honestly I sense there's something those band kids have that I'm just never going to be able to find. 

I'm definitely not the expert on Fi, but to my understanding Fi wouldn't be so keen to identify with a group. They want to be seen for who they are, not for... external ideas of who they are, external connections to who they are. They would probably be more prone to like being introduced as "Just Jackie" as opposed to, say, "Jackie, that one girl who wears yellow a lot on the cheer team" or whatever you would have ideally liked to have been identified as. 

That said, I'm going to have to go back and look at the things that were cited as Fi for you earlier and see if those things don't outweigh these new arguments Hoopla is making for Fe. 

(Again, I apologize so much for not coming sooner. I thought my presence would be redundant at first, and that you were a pretty obvious INFP. I'll see if I can be of any use now.)


----------



## Persephone Soul

OKAY, SO I AM GONNA PUT MY RESPONSES IN ALL CAPS BEC MY PHONE HATES ME AND WONT LET ME CHANGE THE FONT  I AM NOT SCREAMING LOL

Ok which would you last longer doing:
At home, with some tea, snuggled up on the couch watching Netflix with NO human contact to share thoughts and feelings, or to have people around you that you trust on a CONSTANT basis that are willing to share feelings and their thoughts?

NETFLIX AND TEA! MAYBE THE HUSBAND BEC HE IS MY BESTIE AND I LOVE HIM, BUT HE HATES MY TASTE IN SHOWS. HE THINKS I AM WEIRD LOL

Do you think you take in everything around you or is you attention predominately in your head (e.g. How you feel, level of comfort, thinking, imagining, daydreaming)?

EVERYTHING AROUND ME IS USUALLY WHAT MY BRAIN IS INTERNALLY FOCUSED ON I GUESS LOL SO BOTH. TOGETHER, IN TANDEM...?

Also, when things aren't quite making sense or you are upset, do you want to share your feelings with someone you trust or do you retreat from others to figure things out yourself?

IF I AM HURT I RETREAT TO LICK MY WOUNDS. BUT IF I AM CONFUSED OR DISRESPECTED I SPEAK UP.

Also what are you like when things get stressful?

DEPENDS ON THE SITUATION. I EITHER AM A UNFOCUSED BASKET CASE, WHERE MY BRAIN IS SCRAMBLED EGGS AND A MESS. INTENSE AN IRRITABLE.

OR I AM NUMB, CLOSE THE DOOR, LET ME SOAK IN MY PITTY


----------



## Pressed Flowers

SugarPlum said:


> This makes total sense. Your mom sounds HILARIOUS to me for some reason lol. So i just asked my husband if i was very emotionally expressive. HE said " umm, no! You get emotional a lot, yes! But you wont say whats going on in your brain unless you feel like it NEEDS to be heard. Otherwise, i just see your hamster turning its wheel in your head. You get all emotional sometimes and then they come flowing out, and you expect others to be on the same level as you emotionally at that point bec you're so revved up. It takes. lot for you to say "i love you". When i tell you i love you, you say "awe". But then you will all the sudden catch me off guard and b like "i l-l-l-love y-y-you". And im like, uhh, why? Whats wrong? But when you feel like someone has disrespected and crossed the line with whatever it is you believe strongly about, watch out!"
> 
> LOL! so yes i paraphrased a wee bit, bec i dont type 80wpm, but that is pretty much the gist. I am pretty good at memory, so i think i got it all. So what does that mean? Lol


Mm, I can see how this would be indicative of Fi. Hmm. 

In a way, I'm similar. I have a hard time accepting things like expressions of love, gifts, kindness in general... If you tell me you love me, I will have a hard time figuring out what to say next... I'll actually try to hide my emotion, mostly because I've found it inappropriate to let people know just how much they mean to me (especially since I'm honestly overflowing we love for just about every person, but you can't let the guy you buy sandwiches from once a week realize that you actually love him and every person on the planet), and it's gotten to the point where even if they should know how much I love them I have a hard time letting it out again. 

I also say "aww" very frequently. Seldom do I get through any class without going "aww" at least once. But the thing is, I'm very emotional expressive even as I do this... My eyes get big, or small, or whatever to express the inexplicable thing I'm unable to do anything (even realize) but express. 

Something this reminds me of is the character Mrs. Ramsey from _To The Lighthouse_. Prototypical ESFJ (my favorite example of one honestly), but one of the surprising things about her was she was incapable of telling her husband she loved him. She was able to show her love, to everyone - she was constantly going out of her way for others, accommodating her husband, serving him, meeting his needs in a way only she could (in terms of conversational comfort, ha), doing everything to make her family and guests comfortable - but she was incapable of expressing it verbally. 

I wonder if it couldn't be a little the same for you? The only thing is, the "feeling something deeply but only showing it when passionate about what you believe" thing is _extremely_ Fi, but... The other things you've said that seem Fe here make me wonder.


----------



## Persephone Soul

alittlebear said:


> Honestly I didn't respond earlier although notified to because I agreed with what had been said, that you were definitely INFP. Looking just at this last page though, I can really see how you could actually use Fe. I relate to a lot of what you've said, especially the frustration with not fitting into a group and wanting to. That's like, extremely Fe, or at least it seems very Fe on the outside  To give like a relevant experience of mine, I regretted not joining band at age 12 all throughout high school because, even though the band kids at my school were very pretentious and honestly unkind to others,no was somjealousnof the sense of community they had. I eventually got some idea of that community - I was an integral part of my school's drama program, I plugged myself into a lot of clubs without even consciously realizing it at the time - but I still regretted not joining band throughout school, because honestly I sense there's something those band kids have that I'm just never going to be able to find.
> 
> I'm definitely not the expert on Fi, but to my understanding Fi wouldn't be so keen to identify with a group. They want to be seen for who they are, not for... external ideas of who they are, external connections to who they are. They would probably be more prone to like being introduced as "Just Jackie" as opposed to, say, "Jackie, that one girl who wears yellow a lot on the cheer team" or whatever you would have ideally liked to have been identified as.
> 
> That said, I'm going to have to go back and look at the things that were cited as Fi for you earlier and see if those things don't outweigh these new arguments Hoopla is making for Fe.
> 
> (Again, I apologize so much for not coming sooner. I thought my presence would be redundant at first, and that you were a pretty obvious INFP. I'll see if I can be of any use now.)



Lol, dont be silly. No need to apologize. I appreciate your response, so thank you. 

So the identity thing, okay, so its not that i wanted to belong bec of a need for being a part of group. I guess i dont know how to put it quite into words. I never fit in bec i wouldn't allow myself to, but yet almost resented my stubborness at times, bec my life would have been. While lot easier if i DID just join the squad.. or whatever. I wouldnt allow myself to stay in one clan for too long bec i didnt want to be labeled as that ONE particular label. Yet i resented myself FOR being like that. I made my life difficult. 

Feels like i am doing it now lol. I WANT that ONE answer, yet being stubborn. Even though i a not meaning to. Ackkk. Shoot me now lol

Someone asked me before , what am i certain of and uncertain of.

I am CERTAIN of my morals, and everything that comes with it. And i am uncertain of my choices i guess. I dont know.


----------



## Persephone Soul

alittlebear said:


> SugarPlum said:
> 
> 
> 
> This makes total sense. Your mom sounds HILARIOUS to me for some reason lol. So i just asked my husband if i was very emotionally expressive. HE said " umm, no! You get emotional a lot, yes! But you wont say whats going on in your brain unless you feel like it NEEDS to be heard. Otherwise, i just see your hamster turning its wheel in your head. You get all emotional sometimes and then they come flowing out, and you expect others to be on the same level as you emotionally at that point bec you're so revved up. It takes. lot for you to say "i love you". When i tell you i love you, you say "awe". But then you will all the sudden catch me off guard and b like "i l-l-l-love y-y-you". And im like, uhh, why? Whats wrong? But when you feel like someone has disrespected and crossed the line with whatever it is you believe strongly about, watch out!"
> 
> LOL! so yes i paraphrased a wee bit, bec i dont type 80wpm, but that is pretty much the gist. I am pretty good at memory, so i think i got it all. So what does that mean? Lol
> 
> 
> 
> Mm, I can see how this would be indicative of Fi. Hmm.
> 
> In a way, I'm similar. I have a hard time accepting things like expressions of love, gifts, kindness in general... If you tell me you love me, I will have a hard time figuring out what to say next... I'll actually try to hide my emotion, mostly because I've found it inappropriate to let people know just how much they mean to me (especially since I'm honestly overflowing we love for just about every person, but you can't let the guy you buy sandwiches from once a week realize that you actually love him and every person on the planet), and it's gotten to the point where even if they should know how much I love them I have a hard time letting it out again.
> 
> I also say "aww" very frequently. Seldom do I get through any class without going "aww" at least once. But the thing is, I'm very emotional expressive even as I do this... My eyes get big, or small, or whatever to express the inexplicable thing I'm unable to do anything (even realize) but express.
> 
> Something this reminds me of is the character Mrs. Ramsey from _To The Lighthouse_. Prototypical ESFJ (my favorite example of one honestly), but one of the surprising things about her was she was incapable of telling her husband she loved him. She was able to show her love, to everyone - she was constantly going out of her way for others, accommodating her husband, serving him, meeting his needs in a way only she could (in terms of conversational comfort, ha), doing everything to make her family and guests comfortable - but she was incapable of expressing it verbally.
> 
> I wonder if it couldn't be a little the same for you? The only thing is, the "feeling something deeply but only showing it when passionate about what you believe" thing is _extremely_ Fi, but... The other things you've said that seem Fe here make me wonder.
Click to expand...

well, darn. I dont know that character 

you sound like my ISFJ sister. She is so modest and gets embarrassed when complimented, she doesnt know how to respond. With me, its 2 things. When people pay me a compliment, I either internally search for their motive (e.g "why are they saying this? Is it authentic? Is their an ulterior motive behind it? Etc.), if i dont find one, like for instance with my husband, i wont say anything back, bec i am not the one that initiated it. If i want to tell him i love him it will be on my terms, bec passion struck. Also bec the more someone says or does something with expectations (like saying i love you bec THEY want to hear you say it back), the more i stubbornly wont say it back. I will feel like i am being pushed to say something i did not feel in the first place (even though i dont ever NOT love him, but it wasn't an authentic gesture coming from me). I also dont expect him to say it back if say it first. Gosh, I sound like such a hideous human, but its always been me. I really do have a tremendous level of love in me. I am just very cautious with how I use it. It is special to me, so i use it wisely i guess lol. My mom is truly my best friend. Like seriously, my BEST, but i NEVER say I love you or even hug her. She knows i love her bec she a priority to me,and i dont make many that way. Infact, besides my little family of 4 (husband and 2 kids), she is my only other priority. She is also the one i turn to for everything. That confidence i put in her is. rarity for me. i am very untrusting. So that is how she knows i love her. Same goes for my husband. My loyalty after 13 years. MY devotion and understanding i offer him.


----------



## Persephone Soul

And TelepathicGoose, SORRY, i guess i missed yuh! Yessss i have considered that. i was settled on it for a while before sayin, i dont know... i may use Fe. And idk, i may not be a Pe.


----------



## Dangerose

SugarPlum said:


> well, darn. I dont know that character
> 
> you sound like my ISFJ sister. She is so modest and gets embarrassed when complimented, she doesnt know how to respond. With me, its 2 things. When people pay me a compliment, I either internally search for their motive (e.g "why are they saying this? Is it authentic? Is their an ulterior motive behind it? Etc.), if i dont find one, like for instance with my husband, i wont say anything back, bec i am not the one that initiated it. If i want to tell him i love him it will be on my terms, bec passion struck. Also bec the more someone says or does something with expectations (like saying i love you bec THEY want to hear you say it back), the more i stubbornly wont say it back. I will feel like i am being pushed to say something i did not feel in the first place (even though i dont ever NOT love him, but it wasn't an authentic gesture coming from me). I also dont expect him to say it back if say it first. Gosh, I sound like such a hideous human, but its always been me. I really do have a tremendous level of love in me. I am just very cautious with how I use it. It is special to me, so i use it wisely i guess lol. My mom is truly my best friend. Like seriously, my BEST, but i NEVER say I love you or even hug her. She knows i love her bec she a priority to me,and i dont make many that way. Infact, besides my little family of 4 (husband and 2 kids), she is my only other priority. She is also the one i turn to for everything. That confidence i put in her is. rarity for me. i am very untrusting. So that is how she knows i love her. Same goes for my husband. My loyalty after 13 years. MY devotion and understanding i offer him.


I take back my Fe suggestion. This sounds very, very Fi to me. For me, you know, it's almost the opposite. I think a fault of Fe is that it needs 'signs' of love, it needs to show love. It's very difficult for me to accept 'but you _know_ ---- cares about you'. Even just in terms of small talk -- it's nice. I'll hold back showing affection or love, but it's out of fear, or a feeling it's an inappropriate time or something external. I really think this is Fi.

Earlier angelcat asked a question: can you accept two points of view at once? I don't know if you've seen the Fiddler on the Roof, but there's a famous scene:



> Townsperson: Why should I break my head about the outside world? Let the outside world break its own head….
> 
> Tevye: He is right…
> 
> Perchik: Nonsense. You can’t close your eyes to what’s happening in the world.
> 
> Tevye: He’s right.
> 
> Rabbi’s pupil: He’s right, and he’s right. They can’t both be right!
> 
> Tevye: (Pause). You know, you are also right.


Do you do this sort of thing? Do you find yourself thinking: "He's right. He is also right." in this manner?

P.S. I love To the Lighthouse! It's very...dense..do you think it is a Ni-ish book?


----------



## Persephone Soul

Oswin said:


> SugarPlum said:
> 
> 
> 
> well, darn. I dont know that character
> 
> you sound like my ISFJ sister. She is so modest and gets embarrassed when complimented, she doesnt know how to respond. With me, its 2 things. When people pay me a compliment, I either internally search for their motive (e.g "why are they saying this? Is it authentic? Is their an ulterior motive behind it? Etc.), if i dont find one, like for instance with my husband, i wont say anything back, bec i am not the one that initiated it. If i want to tell him i love him it will be on my terms, bec passion struck. Also bec the more someone says or does something with expectations (like saying i love you bec THEY want to hear you say it back), the more i stubbornly wont say it back. I will feel like i am being pushed to say something i did not feel in the first place (even though i dont ever NOT love him, but it wasn't an authentic gesture coming from me). I also dont expect him to say it back if say it first. Gosh, I sound like such a hideous human, but its always been me. I really do have a tremendous level of love in me. I am just very cautious with how I use it. It is special to me, so i use it wisely i guess lol. My mom is truly my best friend. Like seriously, my BEST, but i NEVER say I love you or even hug her. She knows i love her bec she a priority to me,and i dont make many that way. Infact, besides my little family of 4 (husband and 2 kids), she is my only other priority. She is also the one i turn to for everything. That confidence i put in her is. rarity for me. i am very untrusting. So that is how she knows i love her. Same goes for my husband. My loyalty after 13 years. MY devotion and understanding i offer him.
> 
> 
> 
> I take back my Fe suggestion. This sounds very, very Fi to me. For me, you know, it's almost the opposite. I think a fault of Fe is that it needs 'signs' of love, it needs to show love. It's very difficult for me to accept 'but you _know_ ---- cares about you'. Even just in terms of small talk -- it's nice. I'll hold back showing affection or love, but it's out of fear, or a feeling it's an inappropriate time or something external. I really think this is Fi.
> 
> Earlier angelcat asked a question: can you accept two points of view at once? I don't know if you've seen the Fiddler on the Roof, but there's a famous scene:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Townsperson: Why should I break my head about the outside world? Let the outside world break its own head….
> 
> Tevye: He is right…
> 
> Perchik: Nonsense. You can’t close your eyes to what’s happening in the world.
> 
> Tevye: He’s right.
> 
> Rabbi’s pupil: He’s right, and he’s right. They can’t both be right!
> 
> Tevye: (Pause). You know, you are also right.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you do this sort of thing? Do you find yourself thinking: "He's right. He is also right." in this manner?
> 
> P.S. I love To the Lighthouse! It's very...dense..do you think it is a Ni-ish book?
Click to expand...

First and foremost, YES, I do that! Lol. I do that a lot actually! I do ultimately want that one objective truth, but sometimes i will settle on it being both. For sure. Thank you for the example. 

Now on the feeling thing. Yeah, i am the opposite then you say, you hold back in fear, whereas i hold back in confidence. I let it out because IIIII need a release, but not bec THEY want to hear it. I am stubborn that way.


----------



## Pressed Flowers

Oh hey and to sort of add this, I also sort of do the thing where I'm like "he's right, but he's also right..." but for me it's not because I see separate truths, but because in my mind the two opposing truths come together to meld into one intangible and inexplicable One Truth (that I can't quite understand completely, but which I get a sense of nonetheless). I'm not as open about "he's right but he's right too!" (usually I take strong positions, particularly in academic discussion, I choose the one I find closest to the truth), but in my head I somehow mash together seemingly contradictory truths. 

That said, I don't think your Ne is something we should bother questioning. I think it's definitely there, unless you have something you would like to say on the contrary about your having Ne.


----------



## Persephone Soul

alittlebear said:


> Oh hey and to sort of add this, I also sort of do the thing where I'm like "he's right, but he's also right..." but for me it's not because I see separate truths, but because in my mind the two opposing truths come together to meld into one intangible and inexplicable One Truth (that I can't quite understand completely, but which I get a sense of nonetheless). I'm not as open about "he's right but he's right too!" (usually I take strong positions, particularly in academic discussion, I choose the one I find closest to the truth), but in my head I somehow mash together seemingly contradictory truths.
> 
> That said, I don't think your Ne is something we should bother questioning. I think it's definitely there, unless you have something you would like to say on the contrary about your having Ne.


haha, well it was angelcat just trying to help me figure out if i was INFP or ISFP I think. It came after me trying to ask about a possibility of having inferior Ne, since it is so out of whack, yet constantly tugging at me (2 ppl have suggested this). She is pretty certain that is not my case, but confirmed she thought i was IxFP. So then she asked me that question about finding more than one truth in the same subject. I didnt quite know of an example, so i gave that long speech about playing devils advocate, but ultimately seeking one truth.

Anyway, oswin just shared a great example for me. Lol

oh and also, earlier you spoke of you being very facially expressive. ME TOO! I am very dramatic when telling stories. I can get anyone interested in what i am saying. I dont need to exaggerate the storyline, bec my mannerisms, expressions, and voice changes do all the work, naturally.


----------



## Pressed Flowers

Hmm... I really do need to just go back and look at your thread again (sorry about not doing that sooner, ack). I can see where that would definitely seem ISFP over INFP (and I think that was how Angelcat said it was best to differentiate the two, ISFPs seek one truth and INFPs seek many). 

Honestly though I'm kind of just wanting to shut up for now about your type, I trust @hoopla and @angelcat's observations and thoughts on type a lot more and I'm very interested that they are in such opposite ends when thinking about your type. I see Arkigos lurking here, and I'll be very interested to see what he says about your type. Regardless though, whatever those three ya about your type will be significantly more on point than anything I could say. All I can provide are little probing questions and an insignificant opinion. 

I hope you find your type soon though! It seems you've got a few functions to figure out, but I'm certain you'll get it sorted out son enough.


----------



## Deadly Decorum

alittlebear said:


> Hmm... I really do need to just go back and look at your thread again (sorry about not doing that sooner, ack). I can see where that would definitely seem ISFP over INFP (and I think that was how Angelcat said it was best to differentiate the two, ISFPs seek one truth and INFPs seek many).
> 
> Honestly though I'm kind of just wanting to shut up for now about your type, I trust @hoopla and @angelcat's observations and thoughts on type a lot more and I'm very interested that they are in such opposite ends when thinking about your type. I see Arkigos lurking here, and I'll be very interested to see what he says about your type. Regardless though, whatever those three ya about your type will be significantly more on point than anything I could say. All I can provide are little probing questions and an insignificant opinion.
> 
> I hope you find your type soon though! It seems you've got a few functions to figure out, but I'm certain you'll get it sorted out son enough.


Don't trust my judgment. I still have a lot to learn, haven't read Jung in depth yet (pieces here and there) and am learn as I go in general. I'm not entirely sure in this case, though I have an inkling as I've made clear. :wink:


----------



## Persephone Soul

alittlebear said:


> Hmm... I really do need to just go back and look at your thread again (sorry about not doing that sooner, ack). I can see where that would definitely seem ISFP over INFP (and I think that was how Angelcat said it was best to differentiate the two, ISFPs seek one truth and INFPs seek many).
> 
> Honestly though I'm kind of just wanting to shut up for now about your type, I trust @hoopla and @angelcat's observations and thoughts on type a lot more and I'm very interested that they are in such opposite ends when thinking about your type. I see Arkigos lurking here, and I'll be very interested to see what he says about your type. Regardless though, whatever those three ya about your type will be significantly more on point than anything I could say. All I can provide are little probing questions and an insignificant opinion.
> 
> I hope you find your type soon though! It seems you've got a few functions to figure out, but I'm certain you'll get it sorted out son enough.


yes, i do seek one truth, but i next to never get to one bec i see too many. Then i give up and let someone find it or destiny/fate take over. 

And i absolutely appreciate your discussion on the matter. I take everyone's opinion into consideration, but not as absolute (unless there is hard evidence of course), bec ultimately i know me, but i like to hear outsiders opinions in case i missed something. Different perspectives/same truth. Thats what i am looking for. 

I am interested in what Arkigos has to say as well. 

Have a blessed night, alittlebear


----------



## Persephone Soul

hoopla said:


> alittlebear said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm... I really do need to just go back and look at your thread again (sorry about not doing that sooner, ack). I can see where that would definitely seem ISFP over INFP (and I think that was how Angelcat said it was best to differentiate the two, ISFPs seek one truth and INFPs seek many).
> 
> Honestly though I'm kind of just wanting to shut up for now about your type, I trust @hoopla and @angelcat's observations and thoughts on type a lot more and I'm very interested that they are in such opposite ends when thinking about your type. I see Arkigos lurking here, and I'll be very interested to see what he says about your type. Regardless though, whatever those three ya about your type will be significantly more on point than anything I could say. All I can provide are little probing questions and an insignificant opinion.
> 
> I hope you find your type soon though! It seems you've got a few functions to figure out, but I'm certain you'll get it sorted out son enough.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't trust my judgment. I still have a lot to learn, haven't read Jung in depth yet (pieces here and there) and am learn as I go in general. I'm not entirely sure in this case, though I have an inkling as I've made clear.
Click to expand...

Oooooh! What a tease! Do tell, do tell!

xSFJ?


----------



## Deadly Decorum

SugarPlum said:


> This makes total sense. Your mom sounds HILARIOUS to me for some reason lol. So i just asked my husband if i was very emotionally expressive. HE said " umm, no! You get emotional a lot, yes! But you wont say whats going on in your brain unless you feel like it NEEDS to be heard. Otherwise, i just see your hamster turning its wheel in your head. You get all emotional sometimes and then they come flowing out, and you expect others to be on the same level as you emotionally at that point bec you're so revved up. It takes. lot for you to say "i love you". When i tell you i love you, you say "awe". But then you will all the sudden catch me off guard and b like "i l-l-l-love y-y-you". And im like, uhh, why? Whats wrong? But when you feel like someone has disrespected and crossed the line with whatever it is you believe strongly about, watch out!"
> 
> LOL! so yes i paraphrased a wee bit, bec i dont type 80wpm, but that is pretty much the gist. I am pretty good at memory, so i think i got it all. So what does that mean? Lol


My mom is hilarious, actually. You're not the only one who has told me so either. She's not a healthy type, so I don't view her as the quintessential ESFJ by any means, but she is one nonetheless.

I don't really think Fe= obsessive "I love yous" necessarily. There's more to Fe than that, and definitely more ways of demonstrating Fe than saying "I love you" (those words aren't necessarily Fe in and of themselves... it's the context that matters. Anyone could say that). I think the fact your Feeling is hard for you to suppress, the fact you like people to be on the same level as you in regards to Feeling, and how open and frank you are in regard, is Fe. Blowing up when people have "crossed a line" might sound like "strong personal Fi values" in the stereotypical sense, but when I hear that I think of Tyra Banks:






I'm not saying you're like Tyra Banks, because type is diverse. It's the same pattern, but comes out in different manifestations. Tyra definitely is the person you want to watch out for when you "cross the line" about something she "believes strongly about", and she's an obvious Fe dom. Fe has values they feel strongly about. Why Fi is billed as the value function, I'll never know. It's partly why so many xSFJ's believe they use Fi, imo (myself once upon a time, might I add).


----------



## 68097

SugarPlum said:


> Good question. I dont really know. Is there an example? I know that I play devils advocate a lot when i am trying to make a decision. Its one of my ways for processing information, to get to the final decision. But when somebody says one thing , i will oppose it with plausible factors. My intent is that I want them to PROVE my factors I offer wrong with proof. Facts. Logical reasoning. But if they cant then it could keep going around in circles. If they can then i narrow it down. I WANT that one objective truth, but I do tend to SEE many variations. It makes me uneasy though. I feel like there is one truth to mostly everything. It doesnt matter what our opinions are, bec truth is truth. There is only one. But i go around in circles from different perspectives on the matter and hardly ever get to that truth. Grrr


See, there's my hang up with NP. Why can't you come up with a hyperbolic example yourself? Ne is good at grasping a concept and rushing ahead of the other person to finish the thought / expand on it / push it to its limits. Yet, you want specific examples (clarification) before branching out. That doesn't seem like Ne/Si to me. That seems either like Se/Ni or Si/Ne. Of course, I could be wrong, but NPs tend to be fairly decent at just ... running with stuff, unprepared, and expanding on topics that are completely abstract, such as -- can two opposing arguments be true at one time?
@arkigos?


----------



## Persephone Soul

hoopla said:


> SugarPlum said:
> 
> 
> 
> This makes total sense. Your mom sounds HILARIOUS to me for some reason lol. So i just asked my husband if i was very emotionally expressive. HE said " umm, no! You get emotional a lot, yes! But you wont say whats going on in your brain unless you feel like it NEEDS to be heard. Otherwise, i just see your hamster turning its wheel in your head. You get all emotional sometimes and then they come flowing out, and you expect others to be on the same level as you emotionally at that point bec you're so revved up. It takes. lot for you to say "i love you". When i tell you i love you, you say "awe". But then you will all the sudden catch me off guard and b like "i l-l-l-love y-y-you". And im like, uhh, why? Whats wrong? But when you feel like someone has disrespected and crossed the line with whatever it is you believe strongly about, watch out!"
> 
> LOL! so yes i paraphrased a wee bit, bec i dont type 80wpm, but that is pretty much the gist. I am pretty good at memory, so i think i got it all. So what does that mean? Lol
> 
> 
> 
> My mom is hilarious, actually. You're not the only one who has told me so either. She's not a healthy type, so I don't view her as the quintessential ESFJ by any means, but she is one nonetheless.
> 
> I don't really think Fe= obsessive "I love yous" necessarily. There's more to Fe than that, and definitely more ways of demonstrating Fe than saying "I love you" (those words aren't necessarily Fe in and of themselves... it's the context that matters. Anyone could say that). I think the fact your Feeling is hard for you to suppress, the fact you like people to be on the same level as you in regards to Feeling, and how open and frank you are in regard, is Fe. Blowing up when people have "crossed a line" might sound like "strong personal Fi values" in the stereotypical sense, but when I hear that I think of Tyra Banks:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not saying you're like Tyra Banks, because type is diverse. It's the same pattern, but comes out in different manifestations. Tyra definitely is the person you want to watch out for when you "cross the line" about something she "believes strongly about", and she's an obvious Fe dom. Fe has values they feel strongly about. Why Fi is billed as the value function, I'll never know. It's partly why so many xSFJ's believe they use Fi, imo (myself once upon a time, might I add).
Click to expand...

uhhh, yeah.... that is me actually! Like whoa, scarily me! Lol. But is takes. lot for that to happen. Either me biting my tongue for awhile or them crossing that ONE EXTREME line. Yup, i will Tyra all over the place lol


----------



## Persephone Soul

angelcat said:


> SugarPlum said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good question. I dont really know. Is there an example? I know that I play devils advocate a lot when i am trying to make a decision. Its one of my ways for processing information, to get to the final decision. But when somebody says one thing , i will oppose it with plausible factors. My intent is that I want them to PROVE my factors I offer wrong with proof. Facts. Logical reasoning. But if they cant then it could keep going around in circles. If they can then i narrow it down. I WANT that one objective truth, but I do tend to SEE many variations. It makes me uneasy though. I feel like there is one truth to mostly everything. It doesnt matter what our opinions are, bec truth is truth. There is only one. But i go around in circles from different perspectives on the matter and hardly ever get to that truth. Grrr
> 
> 
> 
> See, there's my hang up with NP. Why can't you come up with a hyperbolic example yourself? Ne is good at grasping a concept and rushing ahead of the other person to finish the thought / expand on it / push it to its limits. Yet, you want specific examples (clarification) before branching out. That doesn't seem like Ne/Si to me. That seems either like Se/Ni or Si/Ne. Of course, I could be wrong, but NPs tend to be fairly decent at just ... running with stuff, unprepared, and expanding on topics that are completely abstract, such as -- can two opposing arguments be true at one time?
> @arkigos?
Click to expand...

yea g, i see your point. with me, i always want specific directions, bec half the time when i do fill in the blanks i get accused of branching all of the place. I would love to answer it in my own fashion, even if it takes a novel and 5 tines around the block before i get to my point, but that ends in someone saying "you just Ne'd all over the place" i i dont like that to be the focus. Last tine that happened on a fb forum, everyone was chanting "ENFP ENFP ENFP!" before even hearinyf about my remaining possibilities and characters. Hmm that sounded a little Si'ish lol


----------



## Pressed Flowers

SugarPlum said:


> yea g, i see your point. with me, i always want specific directions, bec half the time when i do fill in the blanks i get accused of branching all of the place. I would love to answer it in my own fashion, even if it takes a novel and 5 tines around the block before i get to my point, but that ends in someone saying "you just Ne'd all over the place" i i dont like that to be the focus. Last tine that happened on a fb forum, everyone was chanting "ENFP ENFP ENFP!" before even hearinyf about my remaining possibilities and characters. Hmm that sounded a little Si'ish lol


I can relate! I really enjoy essays sometimes, and being able to write out my thoughts, because it gives me the chance to make sense of the point I make. When I try to discuss things in class, for example, my point is honestly so complex and multifaceted that by the time I've made my introduction to the point the person I'm discussing with thinks I've made my entire point and they're already started talking and misunderstanding me, and it's hard to bring them back to the point I was trying to make. It's really annoying, honestly, and I've learned to just not speak until I can fully make my point if I can help it 

Would you relate to this? As an ISFP you wouldn't have to relate to this strongly, but if this is sort of what you mean that would point to Ni usage over Ne usage.

Edit: nevermind, if you relate to what I mentioned then that's something to consider but I misread your first part about needing clear instructions.


----------



## Persephone Soul

Oh annnnnd when i think about it more... i always wanted specific and clear instructions, even as a child. I dont want to mess uo. I like knowing exactly what peeps need from me. And there is always that fear of people being annoyed if i "took it and ran".

I was told a lot by my father i was a dram queen my whole life. I didnt get it, bec i didnt feel like one. I hated unnecessary attention etc. My mom confirmed later to me that he over exaggerated that himself. I wasn't a drama queen but rather dramatic in expressions. My dad pretty much just hated anything and everything about me, so he chose to just rip me apart everywhere.

If its any help, ny mom read through the descriptions of "nurture by Nature" and said i was the definition of both the INFJ and the ISFJ child. She is convinced i am an INFJ as an adult though.

Anyway, see randomness lol. Carry on..


----------



## Pressed Flowers

SugarPlum said:


> Oh annnnnd when i think about it more... i always wanted specific and clear instructions, even as a child. I dont want to mess uo. I like knowing exactly what peeps need from me. And there is always that fear of people being annoyed if i "took it and ran".
> 
> I was told a lot by my father i was a dram queen my whole life. I didnt get it, bec i didnt feel like one. I hated unnecessary attention etc. My mom confirmed later to me that he over exaggerated that himself. I wasn't a drama queen but rather dramatic in expressions. My dad pretty much just hated anything and everything about me, so he chose to just rip me apart everywhere.
> 
> If its any help, ny mom read through the descriptions of "nurture by Nature" and said i was the definition of both the INFJ and the ISFJ child. She is convinced i am an INFJ as an adult though.
> 
> Anyway, see randomness lol. Carry on..


I'm sorry to hear that about your father. I know it's hard to realize this, but his opinion doesn't mean anything. I'm also sure you've been told this as well, but if someone can only find fault with their child it is the fault of the parent, not the child. No child deserves to be hated in the way it seems you were.

Liking to know what peeps need from you could be Si, but it also sounds very Fe to me. I know that's definitely a struggle for me, I like to know people's subconscious expectations for me so I don't rub anyone the wrong way.

With all of this, it really seems to me that you're likely an SFJ (probably an ISFJ, if your husband doesn't think you emote a lot). 

We'll see what other responses say though.


----------



## Immolate

SugarPlum said:


> Oh annnnnd when i think about it more... i always wanted specific and clear instructions, even as a child. I dont want to mess uo. I like knowing exactly what peeps need from me. And there is always that fear of people being annoyed if i "took it and ran".
> 
> I was told a lot by my father i was a dram queen my whole life. I didnt get it, bec i didnt feel like one. I hated unnecessary attention etc. My mom confirmed later to me that he over exaggerated that himself. I wasn't a drama queen but rather dramatic in expressions. My dad pretty much just hated anything and everything about me, so he chose to just rip me apart everywhere.
> 
> If its any help, ny mom read through the descriptions of "nurture by Nature" and said i was the definition of both the INFJ and the ISFJ child. She is convinced i am an INFJ as an adult though.
> 
> Anyway, see randomness lol. Carry on..


Whether a person is Fe or Fi, they're going to be affected by constantly hearing something from the people closest to them. I'm sorry you had to go through that while you were growing up. Like alittlebear said, his opinion doesn't mean anything. I just had to say that.


----------



## Persephone Soul

shinynotshiny said:


> Whether a person is Fe or Fi, they're going to be affected by constantly hearing something from the people closest to them. I'm sorry you had to go through that while you were growing up. Like alittlebear said, his opinion doesn't mean anything. I just had to say that.


Thank you so much... you too @alittlebear ! I know. See now I feel embarrassed even mentioning it lol But your words are not just true, but very touching. 

P.s , sorry about all the typos! OMG there is a lot! I am surprised you guys understood my gibberish lol. My phone hates me, but alas..I am on my computer now! yayyy.

I am starting to wonder that if I could be an ISFJ, and Si being so subconscious, that when i do verbalize my emotions via Fe, I am mistaking my Si (my memories of by dad etc.) as Fi, bec they are so deeply rooted...? Maybe me coming off so Ne'sih is bec I am in the grip? IDK, just throwing theories out there. It does feel like I don't have much control over my Ne, yet it is constantly pulling me. I guess this could all apply to ESFJ too. I really feel I am in fact an introvert, just a feisty outspoken one. I do come to judgements fairly quickly though upon meeting someone new etc, I just keep it to myself, and then i allow further info to come in, and I may change my opinion. But bec this all happens internally, I thought I must be a Ji-dom. I may gossip my opinion to a TRUSTED loved one. Kinda just more to see if they came to the same judgement. I guess to compare and contrast our opinions lol. But it is never out of spite. I hate that. This sounds more SFJ'ish. Between the 2, I lean towards ISFJ with a highly developed or just completely gripping Ne. 

Also, the prob I have with the SFJ diagnosis (lol), is that they seem to go out of their way, or WANT to please/help others etc. I almost resent it. I like doing things on MY terms as mentioned extensively. If someone begs or expects me to help, I usually wont. I wanna do it bec it came from me. It is actually a problem I have lol. I drive my mom and husband batty with this, but then again, I am pretty sure my sister is an ISFJ and she is the same way. She mayyyy be an ISTJ and that is an Fi thing. ackkk... just spinning my wheels outloud again lol

And one more Ne-smack in the face for yuh... @angelcat , So I am about done with season 1 of Call the Midwife (love it!), and I must say, I trully relate to Jenny (the only FP on the show that is mentally sane lol). Only difference is with her and I, I have more personality I guess...? lol. She is way more soft spoken, but the things that she judges and what bothers her, I am the same with. I guess I am not nearly as private as her, BUT I also would seek alone time more than she does, which seems weird. Although, if I started a new job with people I didnt know and trust yet, I would def keep those things (her troubles and past) to myself. What would happen is that I would end up clinging to one of them (prob Chummy, just sayin lol) and find if i could trust her. If I could, then oh yeah, there isnt anything I wouldn't tell her. Chummy reminds me of my Mom, so she would be my victim for sure haha

Then I also thought about our convo on how i would handle that teaching issue that @arkigos had posted. The one where he explains how an ENFP would respond. I cant obtain the answer i gave to you, but if you are able to retrieve and share it somehow, that would be awesome. I think you thought it resembled a possible IxFP response, but I am not sure. I do remember you said it wasn't what a Ti user would have done. So there is that. Grrrarghhjdf;hfghfg;f! LOL

Okay, so enough of my rambling....


----------



## 68097

Jenny is kind of ... bland, so it's not surprising you have more personality than she does. It would be hard NOT to have more personality than Jenny.

Sadly, I don't keep e-mails after reading and responding to them. 

Lower Te is stumped by problems. Can't think their way around the facts. Lower Ti may struggle, but still believe there is SOME WAY to rig reality to get a desired outcome. THIS ISN'T WORKING.... pass the duct-tape.


----------



## Persephone Soul

angelcat said:


> Jenny is kind of ... bland, so it's not surprising you have more personality than she does. It would be hard NOT to have more personality than Jenny.
> 
> Sadly, I don't keep e-mails after reading and responding to them.
> 
> Lower Te is stumped by problems. Can't think their way around the facts. Lower Ti may struggle, but still believe there is SOME WAY to rig reality to get a desired outcome. THIS ISN'T WORKING.... pass the duct-tape.


True lol. I guess with figuring a way to jury-rig something, is.. well... exhausting. I do however, ask a lot of questions so i can fully grasp something. If I something doesnt make sense to me, i was the annoying kid in the class that always raised her hand and would repeat steps to the teacher to make sure i have it correctly. Is that Fi?

That being said, I thought i heard somewhere that both Ne and Ti users will forego instructions for recipes, and putting something together and just do their own thing. NOT me. I follow every single step THOROUGHLY , mainly if I haven't done it before. I need to know I am doing it the fool-proof way? Te?


----------



## Deadly Decorum

SugarPlum said:


> uhhh, yeah.... that is me actually! Like whoa, scarily me! Lol. But is takes. lot for that to happen. Either me biting my tongue for awhile or them crossing that ONE EXTREME line. Yup, i will Tyra all over the place lol


To be fair, Tyra acted that way under stress, however a fan of ANTM, she's definitely bold, outspoken and opinionated, and reacts rather quickly, but she was having a bad day there.

I have a question. Unfortunately it's tainted with my influence, but let's say I hadn't told you her type. Which functions would you assume she's using there, and why?


----------



## Persephone Soul

Hmmmm.... i could honestly see both Fe on hot mode, bec it was about appropriateness. But i also could see it being a lower Te powered by a Fi button. If I didnt know anything about Tyra and that show (which I do lol), that would look like she had a enough and that girl pushed a hot button of Fi (if she views that type of attitude to go against her moral code) that triggered her Te to explode.


----------



## Deadly Decorum

SugarPlum said:


> Also, the prob I have with the SFJ diagnosis (lol), is that they seem to go out of their way, or WANT to please/help others etc. I almost resent it. I like doing things on MY terms as mentioned extensively. If someone begs or expects me to help, I usually wont. I wanna do it bec it came from me. It is actually a problem I have lol. I drive my mom and husband batty with this, but then again, I am pretty sure my sister is an ISFJ and she is the same way. She mayyyy be an ISTJ and that is an Fi thing. ackkk... just spinning my wheels outloud again lol


Because it came from you? What exactly does that mean and why? 

Why exactly are you reluctant to provide help for others? Do you think people are rude and inconsiderate for not considering your needs first, or expecting you to help out? Or do you think people need to fend for themselves more and often get themselves in a bind over their own idiocy or lack of common sense?


----------



## Persephone Soul

hoopla said:


> Because it came from you? What exactly does that mean and why?
> 
> Why exactly are you reluctant to provide help for others? Do you think people are rude and inconsiderate for not considering your needs first, or expecting you to help out? Or do you think people need to fend for themselves more and often get themselves in a bind over their own idiocy or lack of common sense?


*Okay SO, my frickin phone is gonna be the death of me! I wrote out a long thorough novel for yuh, and then.. BAM! Mobile web crashed! seriously? grrr....

Anyhoo, to summarize, I kinda have a thing with that whole salesmen speech. The coercing of things. If I go into a walmart and there is a salesman, for lets say...cable. I may look at the table, be interested and curious, so will maybe make my way over. But the minute he lays down the sales-pitch, i'm out!

It is kind of the same thing, with, lets say... a homeless woman at the corner of that same walmart. I may see her while I am loading up my car. I will start to think, "oh no, what if she has an innocent and helpless child that didnt ask to be born into this situation? Awwwe , look at her doggie. He is so hot and thirsty. He looks tired and hungry. He didnt ask for this either."... The lady herself doesn't make me feel AS much empathy, bec, well , she is most likely ( at least more) capable (but not always) of getting herself out of a rut, but that is a different story. My mind is more focused on the possible reasons she needs help and if there is children or others involved. The reasons that pull on my heart strings are enough to convince me to help in some way. I don't even need to read the sign, bec in my mind, it prob wont even be the truth. It will just end up being the same sob story everyone uses. That will prob put me off. So I just go by my conviction. It comes from me and me only. That is what I mean by that. Again, if I am about to hand over some groceries and water from my trunk, and then she comes over and starts trying to put the guilt on. I am like "Dude. Chill. Save it. I see you are going through a hardship. I am so sorry, but please save your sales-pitch. I don't need it. I dont need anyone to convince me of something I have already convinced my self of. Here is your stuff. I hope this helps. I attend this church, come and check it out. They have hot meals and coffee for yuh as well. Are you cold at night? do you need a jacket? Here is a dog bone for the little fella. Do you have children? Do they need clothes? My church has a food and clothes closet... etc etc etc."

Soooo, don't give me what you think I need to hear, to try and reel me in. That pisses me off. To the point I will just say....






*


----------



## Pressed Flowers

Just to pop in (also on a phone and dealing with finals, so I can't get too involved rn), the above scenario response seems Ne, and possibly not as Fe. The thing with possibilities, thinking of why the woman was in that situation... Ni doesn't usually do that, especially not frequently. 

I can't really say if it's Fe or not, because like... Well, for me empathy comes so naturally that I can't turn it off, like, ever, but at the same time not all FJs are going to be as ridiculously sympathetic as I am (and part of it is I am a college student... I haven't been experiencing the real world for as long, empathy may come more easily to me because I'm not really used to dealing with that struggle of providing for myself, making my own money)


----------



## Persephone Soul

I would like to just add, that this in no way every stops me from showin love and concern. I still will. I will still give them help, but my heart just isn't in it as much. I will still give them the food I was already offering, but now my insides are feelingt bummed more than joyous. I am glad I am helping, but they just kinda ruined it for me. There is no better feeling when I see a situation like this and I go and ask these questions and give give give, all while the person is just...thankful. No gimmicks, or speeches. When they know that I know, they are in need...and just receive it with humility. I don't need anyone even knowing I do this, so it is GENUINELY something that "came from ME". MY convictions. 

Did that make sense? lol ... I am sorry if I seem hung up on this point. I don't mean to be. I just need for it to be explained clearly , and I may be having a hard time articulating my stance a little lol

THanks for your time, hoopla! ^_^


----------



## Pressed Flowers

Oh, and I'm also personally not bothered at all by sales pitches? I've been a Girl Scout. I completely understand that sometimes one has no option but to sell crap and give their sales pitches. As long as they're not rude or too creepy car salesman-y, I'm usually pretty okay with them, and actually usually feel pretty bad when I inevitably can't buy their product.


----------



## Pressed Flowers

Can you elaborate a little on your convictions? How does that relate here? Do you help them out mostly because of your personal convictions, like how does that work?


----------



## Persephone Soul

*double*


----------



## Persephone Soul

alittlebear said:


> Oh, and I'm also personally not bothered at all by sales pitches? I've been a Girl Scout. I completely understand that sometimes one has no option but to sell crap and give their sales pitches. As long as they're not rude or too creepy car salesman-y, I'm usually pretty okay with them, and actually usually feel pretty bad when I inevitably can't buy their product.


My sister just finished her finals! College aint no joke, aye? lol

annnd... haha, yeah, some people are fine with it. My husband being one... he gets suckered in really easy too lol. I don't know. I can't really explain it. I am not saying this is how anyone else SHOULD be as well. It's just me lol. I feel so ashamed now, bec I just painted myself as a B****. I assure you, I am SOOOOOO intensely empathetic and emotional. I will be GUTTED - like take me home bec I cant breathe, kind of empathy - if I feel if I see a homeless child, the disabled, the abused, or someone with a mental illness etc. These things run DEEEEEP. I have the "typical" sympathy when I see someone crying, or when a friend needs to borrow some money etc. Like I 'care', and I will help... I just don't CARRRRE, to where I am an emotional wreck and just want to help in annnyyyy way possible, and then STILL lose sleep over it. I feel those emotions. A LOT. But it just always comes down to the HELPLESS. Meaning the ones that are for some reason or another, unable to HELP THEMSELVES.

I think the "help all, and love all" (which I honest to God, still do.. hence my signature lol), that is more bec of my faith and also just being a decent human being. I do these things naturally, but my heart and passion lies elsewhere. That doesn't COME from anything. It just IS...


----------



## Pressed Flowers

Oh, please know I don't think you're a bad person in any way! A lot of people who I love do this, I'm just sort of curious how it's justified, because it's just something I kind of don't understand? That's one thing I love about this site - you can really talk to people about the core differences between you, an you can come to reach a better understanding of those who do things differently than you do. 

I'm sorry if it seemed otherwise! Of course you're a wonderful person, I was just wondering how your thought process worked there because it's so incredibly different from how I experience these things.


----------



## Pressed Flowers

Also if it helps any, I'm not long term troubled by those I see suffering either. When I see systematic abuse, such as psychiatric abuse or abuse of the elderly or systems of oppression that deal with... well, anything, racism, sexism, the whole deal, I am very deeply moved and haunted... that's what keeps me awake at night, deeply rooted systems of cruelty and dehumanization, but I'm not going to lay awake thinking about how sad that kid was when he scraped his knee. In the moment when he is hurt I will feel immense pain and maybe tear up a little, but once it's done and he's back smiling I'm fine too.


----------



## Persephone Soul

alittlebear said:


> Oh, please know I don't think you're a bad person in any way! A lot of people who I love do this, I'm just sort of curious how it's justified, because it's just something I kind of don't understand? That's one thing I love about this site - you can really talk to people about the core differences between you, an you can come to reach a better understanding of those who do things differently than you do.
> 
> I'm sorry if it seemed otherwise! Of course you're a wonderful person, I was just wondering how your thought process worked there because it's so incredibly different from how I experience these things.


lol, nooo silly. It didn't seem otherwise. I was just explaining bec I know there are a lot of people that are not quite understanding what I am saying when I try to put it into words. I wasn't offended by you in the least. ESPECIALLY bec I know you wouldn't purposely hurt a fly with your words lol. Okay, lame analogy..but yeah haha.

Honestly this has always been a struggle for me. I am SO brutally honest with my intentions, motives, and thought process... that others either put off by it or don't understand it. It all seems very Fi to me, but I still have the Fe need for others to at least UNDERSTAND me. Like GET what I am saying, and understand where I am coming from. I almost need validation that it is okay to feel and think the way I do, so I can continue it at ease. When others are not understanding me, and not validating that what I am feeling/thinking is okay, it makes me more uneasy...BUT I still remain the same. Just more upset that others aren't getting me. It's like, I am gonna still feel/think/act the same., whatever is natural, whether you like it or not...but MAN it would really make my life a whole lot easier if you could just validate that it is okay. 

I am NEVER this open, BTW. I know I am oozing Fe domination by being so flippin open. But I barely do this with anyone. My Mom Husband and sister basically. Not really even my childhood best friend and certainly not my other extended friends and family... bec well, they just wont "get it". I feel more safe, yet fairly anxious spreading my insides out on the operating table for yall to dissect me... bec it is a personality/functional/psychology'ish forum. It is to be expected.

So anyway, no worries silly. You are sweet as heck.


----------



## Persephone Soul

alittlebear said:


> Also if it helps any, I'm not long term troubled by those I see suffering either. When I see systematic abuse, such as psychiatric abuse or abuse of the elderly or systems of oppression that deal with... well, anything, racism, sexism, the whole deal, I am very deeply moved and haunted... that's what keeps me awake at night, deeply rooted systems of cruelty and dehumanization, but I'm not going to lay awake thinking about how sad that kid was when he scraped his knee. In the moment when he is hurt I will feel immense pain and maybe tear up a little, but once it's done and he's back smiling I'm fine too.


hehe, this made me chuckle and smile... see, you are so overly sweet. I would say "oh no! are you okay lil man?" and help him up. Maybe ask if he needs a bandaid and what not. I may even give him a hug if mommy wasnt around and he was a LITTLE goober. I would stick around til Mom was back too. But I would never tear up. Infact, after my initial gasp, and concern, I would be all smiles and warmth. Even if he was still crying. I find that adorable that you would tear up bec he is crying and hurt.

Now a blind child walking around, I will need to leave, bec I will burst with emotion. That kid wont leave my mind for awhile. I will need to even pray about it. Don't know why.


----------



## Pressed Flowers

SugarPlum said:


> My sister just finished her finals! College aint no joke, aye? lol
> 
> annnd... haha, yeah, some people are fine with it. My husband being one... he gets suckered in really easy too lol. I don't know. I can't really explain it. I am not saying this is how anyone else SHOULD be as well. It's just me lol. I feel so ashamed now, bec I just painted myself as a B****. I assure you, I am SOOOOOO intensely empathetic and emotional. I will be GUTTED - like take me home bec I cant breathe, kind of empathy - if I feel if I see a homeless child, the disabled, the abused, or someone with a mental illness etc. These things run DEEEEEP. I have the "typical" sympathy when I see someone crying, or when a friend needs to borrow some money etc. Like I 'care', and I will help... I just don't CARRRRE, to where I am an emotional wreck and just want to help in annnyyyy way possible, and then STILL lose sleep over it. I feel those emotions. A LOT. But it just always comes down to the HELPLESS. Meaning the ones that are for some reason or another, unable to HELP THEMSELVES.
> 
> I think the "help all, and love all" (which I honest to God, still do.. hence my signature lol), that is more bec of my faith and also just being a decent human being. I do these things naturally, but my heart and passion lies elsewhere. That doesn't COME from anything. It just IS...


Yeah, I mean I will be all positive and smiley, but... It just impacts me very greatly when someone is hurt. 

I've worked a lot with disabled children, so they don't phase me more than the other children would. My only thing is I would get sad when working with, say, my kids (the ones I worked with) who had autism or something because I would know that they would be hurt by society their entire lives and there was nothing I could do about it... But like with a blind child... I don't know, they would be inspiring to me and make me smile but maybe it's just because I also have a few physical disabilities, I could recognize that society will always be understanding of her condition and that she would be provided with the support she needed to be okay... and I would be okay, you know? If she fell or something of course I would feel her pain, but if I just saw a blind child I would more go "aww," just like with any other child. 

Does that make sense?

Also, thank you for your understanding and kind comments. You're too nice of a person as well, honestly


----------



## Persephone Soul

That makes total sense! I get that. I guess I do the same thing, well kinda. When I see the blind child, i automatically think about how she probably has a daily struggle. Not physically, but emotionally. So the same thing you do with autistic children (i do as well), i do for the blind and def etc. Any disability has my empathy. Not pitty, bec they can do a heck of a lot of things and accomplish whatever they put their minds too. Its just, the fact that . You know what, i dont even know. One of these things i really can't explain lol.


----------



## Deadly Decorum

Fe can definitely fight for the underdog... stridently so. "You guys are so mean and harsh! Leave these people alone! They have every right to be who they are... you're being so cruel to the defensive and helpless! Think about how your harsh words are affecting them!" 

How one roots for the underdog is key, not the fact that they do.

@SugarPlum again, more points for Fe dom, as logic isn't necessarily strong within you. (by that I don't mean you're incapable of logic or unintelligent, but it strikes me as inferior. Even whilst discussing logic I saw Fe in there). Tell me about objective facts. How are they determined, and what are they? Ti doesn't deny fact either. The disillusioned do. As a tert Ti, I only "deny" facts if logical holes are found. Studies to me are that- studies. Not fact. Plenty of Tis are fascinated with science and are aware it is indeed, a fact. Does anyone really deny that we have brains or central nervous systems? Those are facts after all.

Sounds like you enjoy analyzing people, making sense of what they are and why they do what they do, so you can understand them and act according to their needs, correct? It's logical to do so? 

If you hear new information or a logical argument, can you accept it as fact, or do you need to think about it? Would you rather share new objective information, no matter how "flawed", or keep it to yourself until it's pure, whole and completely unflawed?

What characters do you type as Fi, and more importantly, Fe? "Council busy bodies, organization queens" strikes me as Te, actually. 

I don't necessarily agree that introverts transform into extroverts as their auxiliary grows. Shyness is also not equivalent to introversion. Personally I think your Ne trumps your Ti, and that your Fe is off the charts. Some ESFJs' are more outgoing than others. Perhaps ambrivert? I think you can agree you show some signs of extroversion along with introversion (you consider yourself an outspoken introvert, for example). At the end of the day, it's up to you to decide what your type is. Nice to see you consider alternatives though. This is good to see. It shows you're open minded and interested in exploring yourself and how you work.


----------



## Psychopomp

alittlebear said:


> That's so heartbreaking, but also so wonderful of you as a person that you were there to defend him, and that you are able to care about people so deeply.
> 
> That said, this actually strikes me as Fi/Te. I have a hard time understanding that function pair, but from what I do understand about it Fi/Te is more prone to ACT on their feelings and desires (what they believe to be right), while Fe/Ti would... Well, if I was in that situation I would maybe see a biting remark to the boys who were bullies, give them a series of unbridled glares, and then sit down beside the boy with Down Syndrome and talk to him, probably end up going and talking with him every day from then on to make him know that he was loved, to show my love through my care for him.
> 
> Maybe other Fe-doms would react as you did...? But to my understanding the situation you described here seems distinctly Fi/Te as opposed to anything Fe.
> 
> Anyone agree or disagree?


I disagree. I think that was a great example of Fe-dom. It might not resonate with you because it is specifically an 'Alpha' vibe (Fe/Ne). Also, @_SugarPlum_ might be more of a pure extravert than you. Maybe? 

I agree with the idea of Fi/Te being more about action, in a sense, but I am not sure it is well-applied here. 

I was quite convinced when I first read this thread, like, 10 days ago or whatever, that @_SugarPlum_ was an ESFJ. However, I didn't have time (probably) or the wherewithal to argue it because I felt it would be a bit of a slog.

ESFJs of the ilk of @_SugarPlum_ are WAAAAAAY too inclusive of ideas, like a blank slate in a lot of ways, so earnest and eager. Just really open to anything and thus can come across in threads and just entertaining every little thing and thanking every little thing. Also, I feel they kinda suck at self-analysis because of a run-away Ne/Si-Ti - which is to say overly abstract (and inferior) analysis with an overactive imagination that can sort of rewrite or reinterpret reality with a high level of flexibility and whimsy. Given time, though, they can really get good at it (I think @_angelcat_ is a stunning example of this). 

I feel almost like I could off-handedly fool them by weaving a plausible system or tale so long as I could apply it to them in a way that seemed cool. They seem far more concerned with entertaining the idea and using it to understand their world and bolster others than with analyzing it overmuch. That is why these types are the great purveyors of stuff like horoscopes or zodiac stuff... or whatever, stuff like that... because it appeals to Ne and Ti, but also can be a sounding board (with the help of Ne) for Si impressions, and of course, that Fe urge to share and use it all to help people with their lives... to understand the world through it. This is Si/Ne to the bone... and particularly SFJ. They are basically all like that... though many are too smart for the obvious fakes... they still might find a guilty pleasure in it. Right?

ESFJs like @_SugarPlum_ are often seen as more N types (in tone, Ne) than Fe/Si, though I'd argue that Si is a HUGE part (huger than Ne) of their cognition. It is what abstracts the world away. It puts off the world enough that stuff like God and other mystical abstracty things can leak in to fill the void. You'll hear people like this calling their family their 'tribe' or other abstracty things that also feel really whimsical and cheesy-enthusiastic. The idea of God always appeals here because, again, it is way to explain the world in a mythological way. It HELPS people, it emits sensory impressions of all manner of goodness. Analysis is super secondary to this, but has its place - and it is abstract analysis. It is Ti, all subjugated to Fe/Si helped with the credulousness of Ne. 

ISFJ is not impossible, if you see yourself as really an introvert. I could imagine it... I guess. Maybe not strongly either way?

Definitely not an INFP. Like, not at all. I think that any indication of that was mostly the result of smoke and mirrors in some of the original posts. Gotta see between the lines. There are times, too, that SFJ can come across as SFP because of love of nature of sensuality or something else. Good examples of SFJs who come across as either NFP or SFP would be Jewel or Colbie Caillat. 

There are more 'serious' or stoic SFJs out there, for sure... but most of this should still apply.

My sister, btw, is exactly this and she is probably the best human I have met. 


((Disclaimer: I wrote this at 5 am having not slept. It is probably a mess. Sorry.))


EDIT: Reading a bit more of the thread. Seeing you all hack through this (@Oswin, @alittlebear, @angelcat) with such insightful earnestness is just delightful. Good stuff. @hoopla, that Tyra Banks example was superb. So good.


----------



## Pressed Flowers

[I looked at this post a few hours earlier and then decided I was too tired at the time to have made such a post. Carry on.]


----------



## Pressed Flowers

Sorry, I didn't see that long post from you @arkigos. 

I suppose that settles ESFJ, then? Given that @SugarPlum could accept this typing, but I think she will be very pleased with it as she seems open to truly finding her type and has been leaning more and more towards ESFJ.

Oh, and thank you for stopping by Arkigos. With you and @hoopla both saying ESFJ, my mind has been made up for me where I stand on SugarPlum's type.


----------



## Pressed Flowers

@Oswin and @SugarPlum do you want to start an ExFJ clique


----------



## Dangerose

alittlebear said:


> @Oswin and @SugarPlum do you want to start an ExFJ clique


for sure


----------



## Persephone Soul

*double*


----------



## Persephone Soul

Hi everyone! It's my birthday today! yay! 28 whopping years on this earth and I am still tryin to figure myself out lol. I do have a few things I would like to say in response. Actually some are just more randomness. But thank you for stopping in @arkigos ! and @Arrow , you doing okay? Still busy? I would be interested in hearing your further analysis...

Okay to start things off, HERE is who I am (well of course not literally. She is fictional, derr..but yeah...). Allie from the Notebook! Her bubbly nature, quirky sense of humor, and her constant pull between wanting to be free and authentic, to just giving in and settling for second best. Because its easier. I can relate SO much to her. Here is the link to @angelcat 's typing of her on her blog. She went from ESFJ to INFP for her. I can most def understand how she could really come off as both. Funky MBTI in Fiction — The Notebook: Allie Hamilton [INFP]
... Her and Princess Jasmine (I know, kinda embarrassing my life has come to me comparing my self to a fictional animated Princess LOL). Jasmine, bec of her rebellious stubbornness. I will not marry who you tell me to. I will marry who I want! No questions, or debating about it. It is just what is. I married my high school sweetheart when EVERYONE around me told me I was making a mistake. Dont do it. Think this through. Blah blah blah. THEN, when I got pregnant at 17, EVERYONE once again, told me to abort it, give it up! Blah blah blah. 

I was supposed to be in a Rapid Learning School, bec I had the highest SATs in my state pretty much all through elementary. In the 3rd grade, I had a 99% accuracy, and they wanted me to skip a grade like every year. I was SUPPOSED to be in the "gifted programs" bec I kept refusing to skip a grade, or go to a gifted school. No matter how many times I ignored those G.A.T.E program letters , and never committed to them, they still considered me as a part of them. I go all those special treatments. I hated it. The smarts came naturally,although I know, you can't see it through my writing lol. I already emphasized how I dont even think when I am typing in conversation.I just type. i don't even pay attention to grammatical errors really. I could turn on Super-Grammar-Nazi-Girl in a flash! Anyway, so just bec it all came naturally to me, I just didn't find being "Super-Genius" appealing. My family, and I mean my WHOLE family was always soooo proud and expected me to take my potential to higher levels. Well, I didn't want to. So I didn't. Every time a new invitation was given, it was politely declined. I wanted my life the way I wanted it and that is all there is to it. My ISFJ sister has always been the opposite. The exact opposite. We were just talking about this actually. She always wanted to make my family proud. If they weren't proud, then what would be the point. She worked her ASS off to be at the top of her classes. if I had a dollar every time I heard "Misty works so hard Jackie, just to have what you have naturally! Yet you throw it all away. Why are you so stubborn? Think about your future! Think about your success! blah blah blah".... and I am over here like, "EXACTLY! MISTY wants this! and shit, she EARNED IT! Give her the damn praise she deserves!! Leave me alone. This is my life!". I got pregnant at 17 and married at 18, even though EVERYONE said NOOOOOOOOOO! Well, guess what, suck it! I will do what I want. I what I want, is to get married and start my own life without yall smothering me. Make my own choices. My sister? pffft! She is (no joke) a 21 year old virgin, and senior at a Christian university, doing mission trips and saving herself for marriage. She "courted" her now fiance, and they have been "courting " for 3 years. They dont even kiss! Yes, Duggar style! ... uhhhh, I lost my V-card at 14, bec well, I wanted to. Luckily, my husband was my next BF, so I wasn't tempted to sleep around. Just 2 for me, and I married the 2nd. Thank Jesus. ANYWAY, I am PROUD of her! I ADMIRE her! We are best friends and we always talk how extremely different we are. She does not like expectations either, just like me. The difference is, SHE will adhere to them, and I won't. Even the weddings. Well, when my whole clan of family finally got it through their head, that there is no telling me what to do, bec I will do what I want anyway (I have been called strong willed since a kiddo), then the Family started asking about the wedding plans. Well I have always thought about different options for my wedding. My main thing has always been about flowers. I NEED flowers around me at all times, so the flowers were always gonna be my big splurge and the photography. And I know I wanted it intimate. I didnt ever want that big traditional thing. My vows to my husband are not about anyone. Honestly I would have loved to eloped. Where it could just be between me, him, and God. BUUUUT everyone wanted the big wedding. To make a family event out of it. I was the first grandchild to be both pregnant and getting married. They are a BIG catholic family too. Anyway, sooo... guess what ended up happening? A PRIVATE ceremony with my brothers and sisters, parents and grandparents. A total of 12 ppl, under an oak tree in jeans and a flowy blouse. No bridal party. No reception. No fuss. My family was PISSED. BUT, it was what I wanted. My dad didnt even attend, bec he couldn't take all the "rebellion and stubbornness" I gave. that is the thing. I wasn't trying to rebel, bec I love nothing more than a tight-knit family. But, just bec they want dictate my life, and I dont let them. They see it as a personal attack. It's not. I just know that I do what I want. Point. Blank. Period. I still would love to celebrate the holidays with them and I love them all so passionately. BUT there is another thing. There are a couple bad apples that have weaseled their way into the family (by marriage). So I no longer attend the bigggg hugggge family traditions. I have almost become shunned bec I refuse to be present in a room that hold a cpl people that are so morally corrupt. My ISFJ Grandma, sister and ESFJ aunt, ALL say, "lets all just put our differences aside for one night. This is about family". I am like "Nope. Sorry. I love you all with all my heart, but if I attend, that says I support their actions, and I don't. So not going. Point. Blank. Period." I can't just go. To make others feel better. It will be all a facade. Fake. I don't do fake. Somebody has crossed the line with MY moral system. I want nothing to do with them. The End..... Now my sister, will still attend, even though she agrees and feels her morals have been violated as well. But she goes, to please others. To suck it up and make a memorable night. But will go back to loathing these people after the night is through. I refuse. Until the problem is FIXED , not swept under the rug, I am not budging.... Also, my sister is planning her wedding and she is so busy trying to make sure everyone is accommodated, she is losing sight of what is supposed to be about her, her fiance and god. It is not about the others. She has changed the location 3xs, the time, twice, the date twice, the bridal party 3xs and so on... why? to make sure everyone is happy. Me? I see this as a waste of time. It is impossible to make everyone happy. It cant be done. She is so stressed, and I am like..uhhh, just elope!!! Go to Hawaii, just the 2 of yuz. Go on the beach, smell the ocean, hear the waves clash, feel the presence of God His canvas all around you and look DEEP into your mans eyes. Say those vows like you mean it! Screw everybodies demands. Just marry your man. Its about the marriage, not about the wedding. She starts to become tempted by it... them, nope. she just can't. Everyone would be hurt etc. 

Another example ... my sister and I were just talking on the phone last night. She called me bec she was going to be going out to dinner with some friends for a celebration "Finals are over, woo hoo!". Anyway, SHE has the reputation of being really judgmental. Which, she kind of is. But I see where she is coming from, due to her and I having the same core values. But there is a difference between her and how on how they are dealt with. she is an introvert, so she doesn't shout her judgments from the roof top, but with those she is closer to, she will share. And it comes of as self-righteous almost, to others. They feel condemned by her. She doesn't mean for that, but yeah. So anyway, she was like "hey, so i am goin out with ___ and __ and ___ tonight, and they are saying they are gonna get some 'drinks' too. What do I do? I still wanna go, but I dont want them to think I am judging them like they always do. i just dont know how to act when they do things like that." .... we talked for awhile, and I finally got through to her that it is fine to stand in your truth, and not waver, but you cant expect others to see it your way. That is between them and God. Don't be preachy with them. They know your stance on it and that is good enough. They know your feelings on drinking, so no explanation necessary. let them know that it is a conviction YOU have for YOU from God, and so YOU have to listen to it. If they want to debate it to justify heir views, then they are the ones opening that can of worms. But dont go to them as a preacher. If they bring their opposing side over into your backyard and take a s***, then yeah, you gently correct them, and send them on their way. Only correct when they come in your backyard, by saying "IT's fine to drink and party! You have it all wrong!". When they do this, they are taking YOUR beliefs and S***ting on the. You then correct them, by saying "well that is the way you see it. I see it differently. I am not telling you what you need to believe, but please dont tell me what I need to believe either.". I had to explain to her that even though she may view HER views as the one and only objective truth, so do Muslims! So would you want a Muslim coming and telling you that you HAVE to believe in Allah? NO! because you believe the opposite. You are opposed to their beliefs, as they are opposed to your. If you dont want to be controlled, you cant control others. She finally understood. I was like, yeah, so as much as I want to keep America as a Christian Nation and it hurts me to see it change, at the same time I don't want to see it become a Mormon or Islam nation (no offense, just indifference). So If I don't want their religions pushed on me as law, I have to respect not pushing mine on them as law either. It is a sad truth for me. Anyway... she understood and it was another good example of our differences. I have always been the type that everyone knew where I stood..I would stand in my truth and convictions... but I would still hang out with the bad crowd or whatever. They just knew, I couldn't be coerced. They knew I wasn't judging them, but I still didn't agree. They knew not to tell me I was wrong for NOT getting high after school, just like I didnt push my beliefs that getting high after school wasnt the smart thing to do. They do their thing, I do mine. 

It was mentioned that jumping in to save the day was Fe...but couldn't it be Fi backed Te or even Se? Me just taking action was bec I wasn't going to sit and ponder what I should do. All I knew, was that it needed to end. NOW. He was being hurt and humiliated. I went AGAINST the crowd who thought it was okay. Not one person cared, or if they did, they chose to just stand and watch. 

I don't say all this to necessarily argue. I just really see this stuff as Fi. They are big factors in my life. But then again, there are a lot of Fe'sih things I do as well. I dont want people to feel they are less (or more for that matter) important than others. Other examples as well. I am really not trying to play Devi's Advocate here. I naturally do that, bec I can see from different angles, but I am not trying to discredit anybody's analysis here, because I truly appreciate them all. And I really do listen and take them into consideration. I must say this though, If I am an extrovert (which I REALLY don't think I am), I am not an Fe-dom. I do not share my feelings, or emotions lightly. I do not need to build relationships. I do not like people lol. I CARE about people, but I dont like to be around them. I barely like to be around the 5 most important people in my life. I do like being out in the world. Seeing things, learning. Observing. I would like to do this with a person by my side even. But I dont like how the world comes with forced interaction. HOW, can this be Fe-dom? Just bec I talk bubbly 'online', or bec I defend the abused? So far that is about the only clear explanation I have seen for Fe, and Fe-dom to be exact. But that also isn't my life. i don't step in, fighting for people every day. When I witness this, my instinct is to stop it. But there is so much more to me than this. I think we got so hung up , on the differences between Fi vs Fe, that all I have been talking and rambling about through this thread has been emotion, and morals etc. So it will most def paint me as at least a F-fom. And bec I am open, that is another Fe point. I am actually just rambling now lol. Anyway, there is more. I day dream. I reminisce. I contemplate. I analyze. I cry. I hold things in. I fantasize. I sit on my butt and do nothing. I read. I think. I don't express emotion much at all, unless my emotions are triggered. Even then, i dont express them in words as much as I do in actions. When I am sad, I will space out and tears will flood my face, but I don't want to talk about it. I cant stop the tears and the pain, but I have trouble articulating WHY I am hurt , so I just say nothing. I don't say I love yous, but I put those people first. I always have their back and they know where my loyalty lies. When i am pissed, I would rather just punch you, but that will land me in jail, so I am more forced to explain my anger. i hate having anger inside, so that is why i release it. but I would still just rather punch you. I will also give big squeals of joy or excitement when I am happy, but I still don't really express it verbally. I squeal and clap and get excited and say "OMG! so exciting!!" but that is it. I actually will start to ask THEM if and how and why they are excited. So, am I facially expressive? YES!... Am I dramatic? YES!... Am I emotional? YES!... Buuuuut am I filled with emotional words? YES, but the hardly ever come out! Even when I do sit down to talk with my husband on a serious matter. Its very logical. We talk about where we should move, we discuss it in a logical way. When I talk about something that IS an emotional thing for me, it usually still comes out in a logical or even aggressive way. I hate crying in front of anyone, and sometimes I CAN'T keep my tears back. I will sit there so stoic, and motion less. I won't even blink, and the tears STILL flood my face. If people notice this, I usually say I am fine and smile. I don't WANT to have to talk about the emotions... UNLESS, in occasion, I release them to my Mom. I do have lots of opinions about hings, and I do make judgments fairly quickly... But I will usually keep those to myself. But when I am talking to my trusted few, I will share them. 

Now IF you all can honestly STILL see Fe, and even Fe-dom still.... Then i think I will have no choice BUT to accept it, bec I would have MAJORLY misjudged Fe. I love Fe! I want to be Fe. I just dont think I am convinced I do. so please, tell me... is this stuff STILL Fe?

would anyone like to talk about the possibility of me having the Se/Ni axes? Or is EVERYONE certain on the Si/Ne?

I know that was SERIOUSLY novel, and I apologize! I am so thankful to everyone. So let me know. Lay down your votes! i won't argue from this point on about the Fe vs Fi, especially if yall still see Fe. Then I will humbly agree. Now, its my birthday and what do I get to do? I get to clean my house.. yayyy me.. NOT!


----------



## Persephone Soul

alittlebear said:


> @Oswin and @SugarPlum do you want to start an ExFJ clique


yes! For sure lol. Let me just CONFIRM my eligibility first. I'll RSVP ASAP. Lol


----------



## 68097

SugarPlum -- dumping a bunch of information in an effort to help people understand you better is certainly Fe. 

Looks like I was right my first time: ESFJ.
@arkigos is right, in SFJs not having a general sense of self. Our Fe/Ne deflects too much to external possibilities. It's why I had such trouble nailing down my type until I really understood cognition and saw my own weaknesses with a frank, unassuming air (ie, inferior Ne).


----------



## Persephone Soul

hoopla said:


> Fe can definitely fight for the underdog... stridently so. "You guys are so mean and harsh! Leave these people alone! They have every right to be who they are... you're being so cruel to the defensive and helpless! Think about how your harsh words are affecting them!"
> 
> How one roots for the underdog is key, not the fact that they do.
> 
> @SugarPlum again, more points for Fe dom, as logic isn't necessarily strong within you. (by that I don't mean you're incapable of logic or unintelligent, but it strikes me as inferior. Even whilst discussing logic I saw Fe in there). Tell me about objective facts. How are they determined, and what are they? Ti doesn't deny fact either. The disillusioned do. As a tert Ti, I only "deny" facts if logical holes are found. Studies to me are that- studies. Not fact. Plenty of Tis are fascinated with science and are aware it is indeed, a fact. Does anyone really deny that we have brains or central nervous systems? Those are facts after all.
> 
> Sounds like you enjoy analyzing people, making sense of what they are and why they do what they do, so you can understand them and act according to their needs, correct? It's logical to do so?
> 
> If you hear new information or a logical argument, can you accept it as fact, or do you need to think about it? Would you rather share new objective information, no matter how "flawed", or keep it to yourself until it's pure, whole and completely unflawed?
> 
> What characters do you type as Fi, and more importantly, Fe? "Council busy bodies, organization queens" strikes me as Te, actually.
> 
> I don't necessarily agree that introverts transform into extroverts as their auxiliary grows. Shyness is also not equivalent to introversion. Personally I think your Ne trumps your Ti, and that your Fe is off the charts. Some ESFJs' are more outgoing than others. Perhaps ambrivert? I think you can agree you show some signs of extroversion along with introversion (you consider yourself an outspoken introvert, for example). At the end of the day, it's up to you to decide what your type is. Nice to see you consider alternatives though. This is good to see. It shows you're open minded and interested in exploring yourself and how you work.


Okay, so i only read these comments briskly while getting my kids off to school. I got the gist and then when I sat down to write out my reply, i went based off of the key things that stuck out. I honestly didn't read them in its entirety. That being said, i do see where you are coming from.


----------



## Persephone Soul

arkigos said:


> alittlebear said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's so heartbreaking, but also so wonderful of you as a person that you were there to defend him, and that you are able to care about people so deeply.
> 
> That said, this actually strikes me as Fi/Te. I have a hard time understanding that function pair, but from what I do understand about it Fi/Te is more prone to ACT on their feelings and desires (what they believe to be right), while Fe/Ti would... Well, if I was in that situation I would maybe see a biting remark to the boys who were bullies, give them a series of unbridled glares, and then sit down beside the boy with Down Syndrome and talk to him, probably end up going and talking with him every day from then on to make him know that he was loved, to show my love through my care for him.
> 
> Maybe other Fe-doms would react as you did...? But to my understanding the situation you described here seems distinctly Fi/Te as opposed to anything Fe.
> 
> Anyone agree or disagree?
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree. I think that was a great example of Fe-dom. It might not resonate with you because it is specifically an 'Alpha' vibe (Fe/Ne). Also, @_SugarPlum_ might be more of a pure extravert than you. Maybe?
> 
> I agree with the idea of Fi/Te being more about action, in a sense, but I am not sure it is well-applied here.
> 
> I was quite convinced when I first read this thread, like, 10 days ago or whatever, that @_SugarPlum_ was an ESFJ. However, I didn't have time (probably) or the wherewithal to argue it because I felt it would be a bit of a slog.
> 
> ESFJs of the ilk of @_SugarPlum_ are WAAAAAAY too inclusive of ideas, like a blank slate in a lot of ways, so earnest and eager. Just really open to anything and thus can come across in threads and just entertaining every little thing and thanking every little thing. Also, I feel they kinda suck at self-analysis because of a run-away Ne/Si-Ti - which is to say overly abstract (and inferior) analysis with an overactive imagination that can sort of rewrite or reinterpret reality with a high level of flexibility and whimsy. Given time, though, they can really get good at it (I think @_angelcat_ is a stunning example of this).
> 
> I feel almost like I could off-handedly fool them by weaving a plausible system or tale so long as I could apply it to them in a way that seemed cool. They seem far more concerned with entertaining the idea and using it to understand their world and bolster others than with analyzing it overmuch. That is why these types are the great purveyors of stuff like horoscopes or zodiac stuff... or whatever, stuff like that... because it appeals to Ne and Ti, but also can be a sounding board (with the help of Ne) for Si impressions, and of course, that Fe urge to share and use it all to help people with their lives... to understand the world through it. This is Si/Ne to the bone... and particularly SFJ. They are basically all like that... though many are too smart for the obvious fakes... they still might find a guilty pleasure in it. Right?
> 
> ESFJs like @_SugarPlum_ are often seen as more N types (in tone, Ne) than Fe/Si, though I'd argue that Si is a HUGE part (huger than Ne) of their cognition. It is what abstracts the world away. It puts off the world enough that stuff like God and other mystical abstracty things can leak in to fill the void. You'll hear people like this calling their family their 'tribe' or other abstracty things that also feel really whimsical and cheesy-enthusiastic. The idea of God always appeals here because, again, it is way to explain the world in a mythological way. It HELPS people, it emits sensory impressions of all manner of goodness. Analysis is super secondary to this, but has its place - and it is abstract analysis. It is Ti, all subjugated to Fe/Si helped with the credulousness of Ne.
> 
> ISFJ is not impossible, if you see yourself as really an introvert. I could imagine it... I guess. Maybe not strongly either way?
> 
> Definitely not an INFP. Like, not at all. I think that any indication of that was mostly the result of smoke and mirrors in some of the original posts. Gotta see between the lines. There are times, too, that SFJ can come across as SFP because of love of nature of sensuality or something else. Good examples of SFJs who come across as either NFP or SFP would be Jewel or Colbie Caillat.
> 
> There are more 'serious' or stoic SFJs out there, for sure... but most of this should still apply.
> 
> My sister, btw, is exactly this and she is probably the best human I have met.
> 
> 
> ((Disclaimer: I wrote this at 5 am having not slept. It is probably a mess. Sorry.))
> 
> 
> EDIT: Reading a bit more of the thread. Seeing you all hack through this (@Oswin, @alittlebear, @angelcat) with such insightful earnestness is just delightful. Good stuff. @hoopla, that Tyra Banks example was superb. So good.
Click to expand...

Once again, i just read through it all and processed it. I apologize for my antagonistic attitudes if that is how i came off. I see where you are coming from as well. This does make sense. I actually think i am an ISFJ with a feisty Fe an out of whack Ne at the moment. Thank you so much for your time.


----------



## Persephone Soul

alittlebear said:


> Sorry, I didn't see that long post from you @arkigos.
> 
> I suppose that settles ESFJ, then? Given that @SugarPlum could accept this typing, but I think she will be very pleased with it as she seems open to truly finding her type and has been leaning more and more towards ESFJ.
> 
> Oh, and thank you for stopping by Arkigos. With you and @hoopla both saying ESFJ, my mind has been made up for me where I stand on SugarPlum's type.


Yes I do accept xSFJ! I am leaning towards ISFJ, but i am starting to embrace it.

We can start our FJ clique..? Lol


----------



## Persephone Soul

angelcat said:


> SugarPlum -- dumping a bunch of information in an effort to help people understand you better is certainly Fe.
> 
> Looks like I was right my first time: ESFJ.
> @arkigos is right, in SFJs not having a general sense of self. Our Fe/Ne deflects too much to external possibilities. It's why I had such trouble nailing down my type until I really understood cognition and saw my own weaknesses with a frank, unassuming air (ie, inferior Ne).



Hi angelcat. Yes, looks like you were right indeed. Well, i still doubt Fe-dom, but I think O may in fact be an SFJ. You're right. I thought i knew myself bec i knew my values. My values are what shape me, hence i thought i knew me.

Anyway, thank you for your ongoing help. You have been so patient (at least outwardly lol). So thx again.


----------



## Persephone Soul

See, I feel so much better now, knowing I put everything out in the open and there is still one answer. I feel like I explored all the options and arrived at one truth. I feel satisfied. Although.....

Can ANYONE show me how I am NOT an ISFJ, before I officially change my title from unknown, to ISFJ?

If you are one who is sure to their core that I am ESFJ, please prove why ISFJ is wrong. Gracias!


----------



## Pressed Flowers

@AnGekcat I know you're already on this thread, but is there a reason why you wouldn't see @SugarPlum as ISFJ?


----------



## Persephone Soul

I think everyone had enough of me  lol

Do you see it as a plausible thing, alittlebear?


----------



## Telepathis Goosus

I think you're an ISFJ personally 
@SugarPlum


----------



## Persephone Soul

TelepathicGoose said:


> I think you're an ISFJ personally
> @SugarPlum



Thank you, TelepathicGoose ! I think I am too. I was just really looking at this thoroughly, and I think my Si is so subconscious that I don't even notice it. That is why I had this subjective view of who I was, and it was so hard to let go. I know I am in introvert. And this would make sense to my childhood. Text book ISFJ, but then Life just happened. I am also a 4,6,8 Enneagram where my sister is a 2, 6, 9. Makes more sense now Thanks!


----------



## Dangerose

Where's the Ti though?


----------



## Persephone Soul

And THANKS EVERYONE FOR THE BDAY WISHES! went to Black Angus with the husband. It was nice. And relaxing.


----------



## He's a Superhero!

hoopla said:


> Exactly where are you seeing typism here? I haven't seen any.


Saw the title of the thread...


*takes mental note of over reaction*


----------



## He's a Superhero!

shinynotshiny said:


> Probably just referring to the word "typist" in the title. Pointless comment, really.


Yup...



alittlebear said:


> Yeah, I was confused at first too but I'm pretty sure he posted that in response to SugarPlum's use of "typist" in the title. I guess Typer would be a more appropriate way of saying it, hmm


Yeah, I couldn't resist, lol..."Typists I summon thee"! XD


----------



## Persephone Soul

Actually, it was, _ "Typists" I summons Thee..._

There is a difference. 

*takes mental note of an awkward fellow who needs attention*

*gives attention awkwardly to that fellow*


----------



## Persephone Soul

Some selfies while we waited for our table


----------



## He's a Superhero!

SugarPlum said:


> Actually, it was, _ "Typists" I summons Thee..._
> 
> There is a difference.
> 
> *takes mental note of an awkward fellow who needs attention*
> 
> *gives attention awkwardly to that fellow*


*realizes was successful at getting attention*


----------



## Persephone Soul

a couple more... If I missed anyone's comment, that needs to me replied to, let me know.I am TIRED. I think there was one form you, @hoopla ... prob some others too. I will go through the last couple pages again hopefully tomorrow. Have a blessed night everyone. 




















We were so hungry, we were about o eat the menu


----------



## Persephone Soul

He's a Superhero! said:


> *realizes was successful at getting attention*


'tis true.. *Cheers!* 
claerc3:


----------



## Deadly Decorum

SugarPlum said:


> a couple more... If I missed anyone's comment, that needs to me replied to, let me know.I am TIRED. I think there was one form you, @hoopla ... prob some others too. I will go through the last couple pages again hopefully tomorrow. Have a blessed night everyone.
> 
> View attachment 316522
> View attachment 316530
> View attachment 316546
> 
> We were so hungry, we were about o eat the menu
> View attachment 316538


Good night. Your husband is cute btw.


----------



## Dreamer777

Hi @SugarPlum 

I relate to alot of what you say (I'm INFP), but i find your interaction energy & social level to be like an ENFP - interacting fast at lightning speed bouncing around fast and joyfully and playfully, etc. 

I tossed between ENFP, INFP, and ISFP - the 2 Fi doms and the NF Fi aux. The other Fi aux (ESFP) there were a few things that could sound like it, but very few, not enough to really make me consider ESFP. All in all though, the most one that i kept feeling was ENFP, then INFP alot too. ISFP to a point also, not as much though. You do seem to use Ne/Si rather than Se/Ni. (Our dom and aux function is mainly who we are, all other functions take a back seat to our dom and aux functions - so that's why i was considering all the Fi doms and Fi auxes because you seem to be full of Fi.)

Your hubby says you don't know how to express what you are feeling but you show loads of emotions. (And somewhere you mentioned also that you've been told that you are dramatic in your emotions). That is very strong Fi. 

You did mention that on your social media pages that others keep saying you're ENFP. What makes you doubt that you're ENFP?

As an INFP i did relate deeply to some things you said though. And you mentioned about wanting to be free and living like a gypsy, etc, (but your loyalty to family comes first) that is very INFP, but maybe ENFP's share that thinking also? 

INFP's are known to yearn for a perfect ideal life, and being that type of life doesn't exist in this world, then INFP's tend to feel a bit cheated out of getting to live their perfect ideal life of how they imagine it could and should be. So that's not unusual for INFP's to feel that way. ENFP's are alot like INFP's in many ways also, so maybe they get those feelings/thoughts also? 

So i guess i would say are you an INFP who is more extroverted? or are you an ENFP who is more introverted? I really feel alot of similiarity with you, but i'm much more introverted. I don't even have an active social media page, it's too much bother to me and too hard to try to keep up with. I just don't have that kind of abundant extroverted social energy. And how fast you carry this thread so quickly with so much, that's lot of social energy (imo).

I'm a Christian also and understand what you say about churches, man made rules, etc. I'm exactly like that too. I study the Bible for myself (for the past 25 years) and i have to find answers for myself, i just won't listen to what anyone says, i have to find that in the Bible for myself and get it spiritually for myself in my spirit. So yeah, i get what you're saying about all that.  We can pm sometime on that if you would like?


----------



## Deadly Decorum

Dreamer777 said:


> Hi @SugarPlum  I relate to alot of what you say (I'm INFP), but i find your interaction energy & social level to be like an ENFP - interacting fast at lightning speed bouncing around fast and joyfully and playfully, etc.


Ever thought that interacting at the speed of light may be Fe? Ne is not necessarily a social function. Extroverted in it's process, but it's not always easy to find people to bounce ideas off of. A lot of Ne doms come across as introverted. @SugarPlum defines herself as an introvert, but an outspoken one, and I wouldn't be surprised if she comes across as extroverted to others. I wonder if she does. Regardless, people's interpretations aren't always correct.




Dreamer777 said:


> Your hubby says you don't know how to express what you are feeling but you show loads of emotions. (And somewhere you mentioned also that you've been told that you are dramatic in your emotions). That is very strong Fi.


How is extroverting feeling an indicator of an introverted function?



Dreamer777 said:


> You did mention that on your social media pages that others keep saying you're ENFP. What makes you doubt that you're ENFP?


She never necessarily doubted ENFP. If anything, she's very open minded to interpretations of herself, which is a healthy thing. Other people's opinions are not necessarily correct. People make mistakes.



Dreamer777 said:


> As an INFP i did relate deeply to some things you said though. And you mentioned about wanting to be free and living like a gypsy, etc, (but your loyalty to family comes first) that is very INFP, but maybe ENFP's share that thinking also?


What does "living like a gypsy" mean, and how does that correspond with someone's internal thought processes over behavior? How is loyalty to family over freedom Fi?



Dreamer777 said:


> INFP's are known to yearn for a perfect ideal life, and being that type of life doesn't exist in this world, then INFP's tend to feel a bit cheated out of getting to live their perfect ideal life of how they imagine it could and should be. So that's not unusual for INFP's to feel that way. ENFP's are alot like INFP's in many ways also, so maybe they get those feelings/thoughts also?


I agree with this, but if xSFJs also use Ne, would it be out of the question for them to have similar ideals?




Dreamer777 said:


> So i guess i would say are you an INFP who is more extroverted? or are you an ENFP who is more introverted? I really feel alot of similiarity with you, but i'm much more introverted. I don't even have an active social media page, it's too much bother to me and too hard to try to keep up with. I just don't have that kind of abundant extroverted social energy. And how fast you carry this thread so quickly with so much, that's lot of social energy (imo).


How would it make sense to choose between an introverted ENFP or an extroverted INFP? It's like implying that she could go either way... I'm confused with what you mean.

Wouldn't the fact she appears extroverted indicate extroversion?



Dreamer777 said:


> I'm a Christian also and understand what you say about churches, man made rules, etc. I'm exactly like that too. I study the Bible for myself (for the past 25 years) and i have to find answers for myself, i just won't listen to what anyone says, i have to find that in the Bible for myself and get it spiritually for myself in my spirit. So yeah, i get what you're saying about all that.  We can pm sometime on that if you would like?


Tbh what you've said here sounds Si-Ti, but what do I know.


----------



## Psychopomp

hoopla said:


> That's exactly what I thought. Great example of ESFJ vs ENFJ. I think Fe-Ni is much more contained and composed, as Ni gives them those abstracted absolutes that everything will pull out in the end. As @_alittlebear_ put it in another post, society will take care of it's people.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, the moment I viewed this thread, ESFJ smacked me across the face and I (not so) secretly felt that way the entire time, but since I'm not entirely confident in my typing abilities and ESFJ was not agreed upon, I took a hot seat and entertained INFP, for fun, haha. When I'm really confident in something I can be rather stubborn, or even dogmatic, but if I'm not, I'm quite intimidated, or look into others' perspectives. That's why I called you in, but even before you responded I was like "Fuck it, she's an ESFJ, I know she is, everything's cool".
> 
> 
> 
> I'll put my 2 cents in here. I think it depends on the xSFJ. Unhealthy ones definitely don't entertain things in that way. It's in a much more negative, helpless, impending doom way. Personally my mother would likely find typing pointless, but she's on a quest to fix and perfect herself, and make life easy and simple, so whimsy things like this are against her mission. She does like astrology though, hehe.
> 
> In my case, I think typing myself was difficult because I could see various ways functions could be applied at first, then I was like "ok definitely INFP". But people kept disagreeing, and it tore me on the inside because accuracy was so important, so I kept entertaining everyone else's idea because what if I'm wrong and they're correct? I sabotage myself quite a bit in areas I feel unknowledgable about, anchoring onto others' ideas rather than my own. When that knowledge is in place, I'm less naive.
> 
> Though yes... I can be a little naive in that way. I was ridiculously naive as a child, thinking "wow that sounds cool and interesting". I'm much better now, less naive, but sometimes I can see about 3000 factors for a way things can be true, or something excites me, so I get fooled. My mother is especially bad this way... people excite her too much I'd wager.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, she seems rather Ne at a first glance, but as @_angelcat_ observed, when asked of her, using Ne abstractions on the spot are difficult, because they're tempered with Fe. The Regina test was a great example, and how I thought she may react. "Cool idea, but my idea of God is more exact and absolute".
> 
> As for God, I think it varies on the xSFJ. I'm personally a deconverted Christian, as 1. I took the matters of Hell much too seriously, and 2. As I grew older, so many things quit making sense. I remember my Aunt told me if we didn't sing, the rocks would (I thought church music was cheesy and refused to sing) and I laughed. I started taking what I didn't liked and what I liked and making my own sort of Christianity subconsciously, until eventually my faith in God was crushed, but I was very much a believer once upon a time. My mother dislikes many aspects of religion and feels as if God might not be real because he never answers her prayers, but "there's something more to this life" hangs her up. The idea of Guardian Angels comforts her. It's rather sweet, even if I disagree for her reasonings of why they exist.
> 
> But yes... I think the idea of comfort, of something always there to guide you, and the helpfulness of religion is why many xSFJs are gravitated towards it. It's certainly why I was, until I noticed logical holes, discussed religion with atheists and realized that religion is actually harmful to people in many aspects, but that's another story. It's fundamentalism I'm against rather than faith.
> 
> 
> 
> I can't really see that... I don't think she's composed enough. As mentioned, her reasonings for believing she's an introvert echo my mother's. It's really not uncommon for ESFJ's to feel overwhelmed and tired in intense social situations, since Si tires them out, as well as all the effort they put into merging with the social atmosphere (which is often subconscious of the individual itself). Ambriverted Fe dom works for me, but if she sees herself as an ISFJ, I guess I can work with that.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah I was wondering that too... smoke and mirrors, putting on an xNFP persona (though I'm not convinced that was her case, though I've seen others here do it quite deliberately) confusion of how much one's individual values come from within or from other sources. Common in Fe, quite frankly.
> 
> See, I always thought Colbie Caillat was the quintessential example of an ISFJ. "Bubbly" is so Si-Fe I cannot even. I can actually relate to the whole "feelings inside your soul" thing, as if people's feelings transcend into my body. It's a wholly powerful, even nauseating experience. The whole song is about being with your lover in a safe, comforting place, cuddling against them underneath soft, delicate blankets, feeling their feelings, and wanting to hold on and savor the experience. It just doesn't get anymore ISFJ than that.
> 
> Then "Try" came out and I was like "Well, this is certainly Fe" so I searched her on this forum to see if I were "correct", and everyone was saying "ISFP" (you included, actually). Since I've made those past mistakes in typing before and I didn't feel confident, I was bullying myself and thinking I had it all wrong, but ISFJ couldn't escape my mind. I definitely plan to read Jung thoroughly, but simply haven't had time. It's complex reading, the sort of thing I'd balk at for hours until it all clicked. What little I've read has helped to expand my perception. It will help me to have more confidence in my arguments, for sure. I wonder what made you change your mind about ISFP for Caillat?
> 
> I think this video demonstrates Si dom quite well:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fearful of a new situation, because there's no sensory impression to back up how to behave or act. It's not that Si is afraid of the new, as much as Si needs information to feel comfortable. Knowing what to except is important to Si.
> 
> Calliat is the stream of a waterfall, letting the forceful entity transcend within her, and taming it. The peaceful contrast to a frenetic spirit. ISFJs are really peaceful, calm spirits in a lot of ways, and I think she's an excellent example of that. All ISFJ's are waterfall streams in their own way, really.


The further back you go in my posts the more embarrassingly bad my typing attempts were. I don't stand by anything I said more than, say, a year and a half ago? Maybe less. Would you believe that I spent the first part of my time on this forum as an evangelist for Keirsey? You could probably find a post of mine railing on the functions or something. I've come a long way and still have a long way to go. I very lazily typed her a 'probably ISFP' about 2 and a half years ago. I take no responsibility for whatever foolishness I was up to back then... nor will I, in 2 and a half years, take any responsibility for the foolishness I am up to now. 

The instant I re-approached her with a sensible understanding of functions (which I lacked 2 and a half years ago), I realized she was an SFJ (presumably ISFJ). 

Hopefully this is a good lesson in being willing to be made or seen as a fool in order to bring to light something that no one else is seeing. My mantra is that the only thing we can be absolutely sure of is that we are all currently totally wrong... and only by admitting that and embracing it can we earnestly move toward being more right. Once you really realize that, the fear of being wrong evaporates and the urge to put out better ideas on the table is all that matters. 

Also, you might find it interesting that I spent several years as a converted Christian in my teens. Good times.


----------



## Immolate

hoopla said:


> Tbh what you've said here sounds Si-Ti, but what do I know.


What's Si about it? (Genuinely curious.)


----------



## Persephone Soul

Hi there, @Dreamer777 ... I totally here what you are saying. This has actually been my mindset for a good chunk of this last year. I was certain I was an ENFP, bec of all the reasons you listed actually. I seriously could have written what you just wrote. I am not 100% opposed to it still being a possibility, although I think I am still rolling with xSFJ. The reason being bec when I think back to my childhood, I was an ISFJ child. No way around it. I did however express some rather abstract ideas from time to time. There actually seemed more Ni even, thank Ne (but that is a diff story). My point is that it seems the childhood of oneself could actually say a lot. I had a bit of a quirky sense to me, but it always took a back seat to; safety, cautiousness, observation, contemplation, and rule abiding. If everyone was safe, and organized (like my little siblings. I made sure they were all herded while at a grocery store etc.), then my quirky and silly sense of humor would really shine. As I grew older my quirkiness did begin to come out and play more often, and my cautiousness began to chill out a little more. I began to worry less about taking care of others and worry more about myself. I did turn into a bit of a rebel, BUT I always still remained cautious inside. I would not do anything that would cause me danger or threaten my safety. But I stopped parenting others so much. I became a lot more extroverted. I am not saying I became an Extrovert, rather I just started to open up more. I was a little all over the place in high School actually. Very stubborn, and "you can't tell me how to act or what to do". I essentially turned into Princess Jasmine lol. Just in time too, bec my husband is JUST like Aladdin. I am not making this up haha. We were told this by my siblings, and we were like, "Whoa!" lol. Anyway, even THEN, I didn't want to get into trouble and was still INTERNALLY cautious. Just more outwardly rebellious. I know an ENFP would have thrown caution to the wind and their cautiousness would take a back seat. Mine never did. It just was being suppressed more.To be suppressed means it has to be usually a surface oriented thing...right? What I was trying to explain earlier to @hoopla , was that I seemed to have been a pure ISFJ as a child (Si and Ti really seemed to be at work the most), and then it felt like my Fe and Ne started to pick up in teenage years, and maybe went a little our of whack. Then into adulthood, as a wife and mother, I was very xSFJ'ish for the first few years into my 20s. Maybe even more extroverted. My Fe felt in full effect. A Bitchy one actually. I kind of got an arrogant aura for awhile. Then a cpl years ago, I went into a deep depression and I believe I was in a Si/Ti loop (but it could have been an Fi/Si one). It was a dark time, and I know I became very isolated. I didn't leave the house for like a year. It was hard to go to the mailbox, and my husband had to do the grocery shopping etc. I missed out on all my children's school events. I gained a bunch of weight, and began to abuse prescription drugs mixed alcohol at night, when everyone went to bed. I would stay up until 5am, sleep for a couple hrs, then get up and get the kids to school, come back home and sleep until they got home from school. It pains me to even write this out. I have only talked about this stuff to my closest confidants. Actually up until recently, I never even told my husband and sister how extremely bad it got. I almost bottomed out a cpl times. My Mom is the only one who knew the depth of it, and even with her, it took for me to start healing before I could tell her. So yes this does make me think Fi, actually a lot of things still do. But this could have also been an Si thing? And the fact that I am opening up right now could be Fe as well. IDK...But after I hit what I feel was my rock bottom, I looked to the Bible for answers. I chose to forego all the Preachers telling me one thing, bec I wanted the damn answers. The real ones. The ones straight form God. After I began this journey, my life took a drastic turn. I slowly began to heal. I got out of that rut and now I am better. I do however fall back into minor bouts of depression and then I am plagued with memories. The past. I then freak out bec I start to see myself go down the same path that landed me in a mental coma for a year. I wasn't a good daughter, sister, friend, wife, and MOM (that hurts the most)... I just wasn't a good anything. So when certain feelings rise up and I begin to fall back into that hell, I have to logically go through all the reasons I just can NOT do this again. I have been able to pull myself out of it. It isn't easy, but I find a way to do so.

So continuing on, after I healed (still healing), I started to look into this typology stuff. I found a great distraction. I think I honestly woke up the beast. My uncontrolled Ne. It went haywire. All the sudden, I became SOOOOOO indecisive, with EVERYTHING! I was once known as a stubbron and rigid girl, to now, a woman that can't even decide what she wants for lunch bec, well... there is just TOO MANY OPTIONS! It has seriously overtaken my life this past year. I all the sudden was like, "LETS MOVE TO IDAHO! LIKE NOW! RIGHT NOW!"...""I WANT TO TRAVEL!"... "LETS BUY A MOTOR HOME AND GO ANYWHERE AND EVERYWHERE!". I know this doesn't sound like a 'typical' inferior-Ne. I think the way @angelcat describes inf-Ne is how it always worked for me, in a healthy way. Always thinking of the worst case scenarios. Thinking of a million and one ways something could end up going wrong. Pulling me toward an occasional novelty (like moving to a new home every year, BUT it has always still been local...bec packing up and going to Idaho would be too risky...). I feel I have always had this but just underdeveloped. But lately? It has been on an adrenaline kick. Trying to drive the car. Seriously, like an out of control TODDLER, trying to hop in the front seat and DRIVE. Haha, I just got a picture of the baby from Look Who's Talking trying to drive the car with the breadstick... Anyhoo, I am almost convinced that ISFJ is my HEALTHY home. I am sometimes not the most healthy person, so I am actually proud of myself for FINALLY figuring this typology stuff out, still not being at my healthiest. This took a lot of deconstruction, analyzing, and rebuilding to form a conclusion (SEE I am fully capable of Ti, when my Ne SIMMERS DOW! ) haha. To me, a true xNFP would have handled all these things differently. Maybe not even have been in the same situation at all...? Not sure. Now that my Ne has put a binky in its dang mouth, I am able to see that it was just a baby throwing a tantrum. I think that if the Ne were naturally the driver or even the front seat passenger, it would have a lot more control. Si would be making a fuss and pulling me to safety in a weird uncontrolled way. That has always been the driver for me. "Safety first"! lol

So I could totally be wrong, and I am completely open to ANY discussion on the matter. I appreciate your input more than you could realize. A cpl days ago, I would have agreed completely, bec my brain was still seeing myself in a delusional subjective way (Si). Thinking Ne was way way higher than it really is.

If anyone else would like to give some input or discuss this further, that is totally cool. I welcome it, and would be more than open-minded for any gentle correction. All I ask is that you read this thoroughly first. 

Thanks again...so much, Dreamer777.

@hoopla @arkigos @Arrow @alittlebear @Oswin @shinynotshiny @Ksara @TelepathicGoose

What do y'all think?


----------



## Persephone Soul

alittlebear said:


> Sorry to interject, but part of this could be GAD. Ne users with anxiety tend to express anxiety like this, I think.
> 
> Do you ever want to figure out the truths of the world or something when you're stressed?


No. When I am stressed I become more extroverted actually. When I am stressed, no thinking or analyzing happens. My brain becomes very unfocused. I actually have turned to food, alcohol etc in times of stress. I am working on this though. I do what you said when I am more sad.

So what does that mean? lol


----------



## Telepathis Goosus

@SugarPlum

You aren't an ENFP. 

This is an ENFP telling you you are not an ENFP. I do not relate to anything you've been saying much at all. I'm the exact opposite of a worrier, I worry way too _little._ When I'm stressed, I become narrow-minded, believing everything will be alright (basically what inferior Si does), as opposed to worrying about all possibilities. Also, I just do not focus on details at all in general, a general lack of taste for anything that is separate from the big picture.

Whether ESFJ or ISFJ is irrelevant. You're still not an ENFP. ^^


----------



## Persephone Soul

TelepathicGoose said:


> @SugarPlum
> 
> You aren't an ENFP.
> 
> This is an ENFP tell you you are not an ENFP. I do not relate to anything you've been saying much at all. I'm the exact opposite of a worrier, I worry way too _little._ When I'm stressed, I become narrow-minded, believing everything will be alright (basically what inferior Si does), as opposed to worrying about all possibilities. Also, I just do not focus on details at all in general, a general lack of taste for anything that is separate from the big picture.
> 
> Whether ESFJ or ISFJ is irrelevant. You're still not an ENFP. ^^


I think I agree, exactly for the points you just made. I know my sensing comes before my intuition. That was a hard pill to swallow, bec I am very abstract in my thinking, ideas and even actions. But nothing concrete enough that holds. I am always being told how "weird" I am. I can become very very 'deep' with my thoughts on things sometimes. I like that about me, but I think I may have overestimated my abilities in that area. I think I APPRECIATE and ADMIRE abstract'ness more than I am actually skilled in it. 

Anyway, thank you for your input. So just to be clear, you would cross INFP off the list too then? What is YOU official stance at this point?


----------



## Telepathis Goosus

SugarPlum said:


> I think I agree, exactly for the points you just made. I know my sensing comes before my intuition. That was a hard pill to swallow, bec I am very abstract in my thinking, ideas and even actions. But nothing concrete enough that holds. I am always being told how "weird" I am. I can become very very 'deep' with my thoughts on things sometimes. I like that about me, but I think I may have overestimated my abilities in that area. I think I APPRECIATE and ADMIRE abstract'ness more than I am actually skilled in it.
> 
> Anyway, thank you for your input. So just to be clear, you would cross INFP off the list too then? What is YOU official stance at this point?


Whereas I, an intuiting dominant, wish I could be more grounded and practical, and actually be in touch with my sensations. I feel as if I would enjoy life more...but oh well. 

Also, abstract thought does not equate to intuition. Intuition is a specific_ form_ of abstract thought, which focuses on patterns, imagery, and possibilities away from objective reality.

Also, keep in mind that Si is more abstract than Se, because it focuses on your impressions of a thing, not what the thing is.

-
I ruled out INFP because of your obvious Fe.


----------



## Persephone Soul

TelepathicGoose said:


> SugarPlum said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think I agree, exactly for the points you just made. I know my sensing comes before my intuition. That was a hard pill to swallow, bec I am very abstract in my thinking, ideas and even actions. But nothing concrete enough that holds. I am always being told how "weird" I am. I can become very very 'deep' with my thoughts on things sometimes. I like that about me, but I think I may have overestimated my abilities in that area. I think I APPRECIATE and ADMIRE abstract'ness more than I am actually skilled in it.
> 
> Anyway, thank you for your input. So just to be clear, you would cross INFP off the list too then? What is YOU official stance at this point?
> 
> 
> 
> Whereas I, an intuiting dominant, wish I could be more grounded and practical, and actually be in touch with my sensations. I feel as if I would enjoy life more...but oh well.
> 
> Also, abstract thought does not equate to intuition. Intuition is a specific_ form_ of abstract thought, which focuses on patterns, imagery, and possibilities away from objective reality.
> 
> Also, keep in mind that Si is more abstract than Se, because it focuses on your impressions of a thing, not what the thing is.
> 
> -
> I ruled out INFP because of your obvious Fe.
Click to expand...

Very true. I think I am truly starting to see how much the Si is a part of me. The only thing I am still a LITTLE (I mean such a small amount) holding on to, would be the Fi. But I think hoopla may be right when she says I was confusing Si/Fe for Fi...?

But it looks like you also see Fe as do the rest it seems. Thank you for your help.


----------



## Dreamer777

@SugarPlum

How do you relate to this, it's by Jung, so it's a complex style of writing he has, but see what you can decipher in it that you relate to?

The Introverted Feeling Type By Jung (Fi Doms)

It is principally among women that I have found the predominance of introverted feeling. "Still waters run deep" is very true of such women. They are mostly silent, inaccessible, hard to understand; often they hide behind a childish or banal mask, and their temperament is inclined to melancholy. They neither shine nor reveal themselves. As they are mainly guided by their subjective feelings, their true motives generally remain hidden. Their outward demeanour is harmonious, inconspicuous, giving an impression of pleasing repose, or of sympathetic response, with no desire to affect others, to impress, influence, or change them in any way. If this outward aspect is more pronounced, it arouses a suspicion of indifference and coldness, which may actually turn into a disregard for the comfort and well-being of others. One is distinctly aware then of the movement of feeling away from the object. With the normal type, however, this happens only when the influence of the object is too strong. The feeling of harmony, therefore, lasts only so long as the object goes its own moderate way and makes no attempt to cross the other's path. There is little effort to respond to the real emotions of the other person; they are more often damped down and rebuffed, or cooled off by a negative value judgment. Although there is a constant readiness for peaceful and harmonious co-existence, strangers are shown no touch of amiability, no gleam of responsive warmth, but are met with apparent indifference or a repelling coldness. Often they are made to feel entirely superfluous. Faced with anything that might carry her away or arouse enthusiasm, this type observes a benevolent though critical neutrality, coupled with a faint trace of superiority that soon takes the wind out of the sails of a sensitive person. Any stormy emotion, however, will be struck down with murderous coldness, unless it happens to catch the woman on her unconscious side-that is, unless it hits her feelings by arousing a primordial image. In that case she simply feels paralysed for the moment, and this in due course invariably produces an even more obstinate resistance which will hit the other person in his most vulnerable spot. As far as possible, the feeling relationship is kept to the safe middle path, all intemperate passions being resolutely tabooed. Expressions of feeling therefore remain niggardly, and the other person has a permanent sense of being undervalued once he becomes conscious of it. But this need not always be so, because very often he remains unconscious of the lack of feeling shown to him, in which case the unconscious demands of feeling will produce symptoms designed to compel attention.

Since this type appears rather cold and reserved, it might seem on a superficial view that such women have no feelings at all. But this would be quite wrong; the truth is, their feelings are intensive rather than extensive. They develop in depth. While an extensive feeling of sympathy can express itself in appropriate words and deeds, and thus quickly gets back to normal again, an intensive sympathy, being shut off from every means of expression, acquires a passionate depth that comprises a whole world of misery and simply gets benumbed. It may perhaps break out in some extravagant form and lead to an astounding act of an almost heroic character, quite unrelated either to the subject herself or to the object that provoked the outburst. To the outside world, or to the blind eyes of the extravert, this intensive sympathy looks like coldness, because usually it does nothing visible, and an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces. Such a misunderstanding is a common occurrence in the life of this type, and is used as a weighty argument against the possibility of any deeper feeling relation with the object. But the real object of this feeling is only dimly divined by the normal type herself. It may express itself in a secret religiosity anxiously guarded from profane eyes, or in intimate poetic forms that are kept equally well hidden, not without the secret ambition of displaying some kind of superiority over the other person by this means. Women often express a good deal of their feelings through their children, letting their passion flow secretly into them.

Although this tendency to overpower or coerce the other person with her secret feelings rarely plays a disturbing role in the normal type, and never leads to a serious attempt of this kind, some trace of it nevertheless seeps through into the personal effect they have on him, in the form of a domineering influence often difficult to define. It is sensed as a sort of stifling or oppressive feeling which holds everybody around her under a spell. It gives a woman of this type a mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious. This power comes from the deeply felt, unconscious images, but consciously she is apt to relate it to the ego, whereupon her influence becomes debased into a personal tyranny. Whenever the unconscious subject is identified with the ego, the mysterious power of intensive feeling turns into a banal and overweening desire to dominate, into vanity and despotic bossiness. This produces a type of woman notorious for her unscrupulous ambition and mischievous cruelty. It is a change, however, that leads to neurosis.

So long as the ego feels subordinate to the unconscious subject, and feeling is aware of something higher and mightier than the ego, the type is normal. Although the unconscious thinking is archaic, its reductive tendencies help to compensate the occasional fits of trying to exalt the ego into the subject. If this should nevertheless happen as a result of complete suppression of the counterbalancing subliminal processes, the unconscious thinking goes over into open opposition and gets projected. The egocentrized subject now comes to feel the power and importance of the devalued object. She begins consciously to feel "what other people think." Naturally, other people are thinking all sorts of mean things, scheming evil, contriving plots, secret intrigues, etc. In order to forestall them, she herself is obliged to start counter-intrigues, to suspect others and sound them out, and weave counterplots. Beset by rumours, she must make frantic efforts to get her own back and be top dog. Endless clandestine rivalries spring up, and in these embittered struggles she will shrink from no baseness or meanness, and will even prostitute her virtues in order to play the trump card. Such a state of affairs must end in exhaustion. The form of neurosis is neurasthenic rather than hysterical, often with severe physical complications, such as anaemia and its sequelae.


----------



## Persephone Soul

Oh BTW, I totally didn't post this for any attention whatsoever. It took a long time to get the nerve to. I take things very personally, and i feel very emotionally vulnerable bec i am sharing with you guys more than i share with a lot of people. Its scary actually. 

But i could see how that would look lol


----------



## Immolate

hoopla said:


> I was being hyperbolic. Of course Te thinks... it's a Thinking function after all. To me it just looks black and white and archaic. You were told this knowledge before, therefore that's how it must be? Ugh. At the same time Te is much more pragmatic and better at making quick decisions than I am. I annoy Te with my meandering anyhow.
> 
> Again, I think Te can look cold, but Te can certainly be emotional... my grandfather, again cries often, and is an ISTJ. Crying can have tons of factors. It's a rather black and white way of looking at Te, imo.
> 
> Totalitarian was a joke, lol.


Te isn't as simple or archaic as accepting knowledge from "before." In fact, that makes no sense. It is illogical. We are constantly learning and reevaluating as new information comes along. 

You made two references to Te not thinking before jumping, and if that was your reason for bringing up your sister, then it was ultimately irrelevant to your argument about Te and Fi. 

Looking cold =/= no emotions. I don't think anyone here argued that. Te and Fi just manifest emotion differently.


----------



## Persephone Soul

shinynotshiny said:


> I think you grew up and took responsibility early in your life. You've achieved what a lot of people in their late twenties are still trying to achieve, a happy marriage and family. You're a mother and a wife and a caring daughter. I think all of this has shaped you into the person you are today. You're a bubbly person but you've also had life experiences that ground you, and maybe it's made you turn inward to focus on your own thoughts and feelings. We don't live in a vacuum. People are shaped by both nature and nurture. I can see Fe as well as some things that strike me as Fi (although it could very well be Si). I like to believe we're not so simple that we can be broken up into a number of functions and letters.



This makes. ton of sense. And thank you.


----------



## Pressed Flowers

I really don't think that we can type based on how someone reacts to impossible circumstance. @SugarPlum is showing her strength through her story, and I think having some knowledge of these things can help us understand why some things seem different about her than the typical whatever her personality type ends up being, but I don't think we can say like "Fi would stand up for themselves and Fe wouldn't!" or whatever. Not sure if anyone was considering going in that direction, but... I really don't think we can look to how she reacted in her childhood to things like abuse to gather knowledge about her type. We can look at how she acted as a sister, a kid, a friend, but when these things include how she reacted in more unfortunate situations I think that's when we need to back up.


----------



## Pressed Flowers

SugarPlum said:


> Oh BTW, I totally didn't post this for any attention whatsoever. It took a long time to get the nerve to. I take things very personally, and i feel very emotionally vulnerable bec i am sharing with you guys more than i share with a lot of people. Its scary actually.
> 
> But i could see how that would look lol


Please only share what's comfortable for you. I don't think any of us are bothered by the information, but please know that you are by no means obligated to disclose anything that makes you uncomfortable.


----------



## Immolate

SugarPlum said:


> This makes. ton of sense. And thank you.


No need to thank me 

I agree with alittlebear about only sharing what you feel comfortable with. You have no obligation to us!


----------



## Deadly Decorum

shinynotshiny said:


> Te isn't as simple or archaic as accepting knowledge from "before." In fact, that makes no sense. It is illogical. We are constantly learning and reevaluating as new information comes along.
> 
> You made two references to Te not thinking before jumping, and if that was your reason for bringing up your sister, then it was ultimately irrelevant to your argument about Te and Fi.
> 
> Looking cold =/= no emotions. I don't think anyone here argued that. Te and Fi just manifest emotion differently.


That's how I view Te, but it's again, hyperbolic. It looks archaic to me because I've known Te types who will say something must be this way because that's how it is. This book states this fact, therefore it's correct. Of course this could be Te-Si, but that's typically Te. This is the way things are, and until the facts are disputed, this is how logic works. To me it feels like it's simply repeating this "fact", over and over, using that fact again if it works, rather than looking into things independently to make their own logic. For example, looking at a manual and using it as a field guide to solve something. Feels archaic to me because it's developed knowledge, will often be used again because "it worked the first time", whereas I'd rather just wing everything from scratch.

Te looks as if it's not thinking to me because it makes a quick Judgment call. That doesn't mean Te doesn't think... that it's very definition. It simply thinks quickly and sharply, and can find solutions on the spot, or decide if something is logical or illogical as soon as it's been asked. I could probably benefit from such cognition. I over think to the point of missing the obvious. lol

Certainly Te changes. Once a fact is irrelevant or dis-proven, Te will accept a new one. It's about what's pragmatic, efficient, and what will work. Then again, you use Te. You understand it better than I do. Do you agree?

I agree. In fact, that's essentially how Jung described Fi. Cold or mysterious on the outside, but with much warmth and feeling on the inside. Still, waters run deep. I've just known Te types who cry or act emotional... which to me would negate stoicism. I think viewing Te as stoic will cause many Te types to be mistyped. The girl I linked, whom is a Te dom, certainly is not stoic. She described herself as emotional and cried. If that fits your definition of stoic, explain so I can expand on how I define it.


----------



## Immolate

hoopla said:


> That's how I view Te, but it's again, hyperbolic. It looks archaic to me because I've known Te types who will say something must be this way because that's how it is. This book states this fact, therefore it's correct. Of course this could be Te-Si, but that's typically Te. This is the way things are, and until the facts are disputed, this is how logic works. It only looks archaic to me as it's simply repeating this "fact", over and over, rather than looking into things independently to make their own logic. For example, looking at a manual and using it as a field guide to solve something. Feels archaic to me because it's developed knowledge, will often be used again because "it worked the first time", whereas I'd rather just wing everything from scratch.
> 
> 
> Certainly Te changes. Once a fact is irrelevant or dis-proven, Te will accept a new one. It's about what's pragmatic, efficient, and what will work. Then again, you use Te. You understand it better than I do. Do you agree?
> 
> I agree, I've just known Te types who cry or act emotional... which to me would negate stoicism. I think viewing Te as stoic will cause many Te types to be mistyped. The girl I linked, whom is a Te dom, certainly is not stoic. She described herself as emotional and cried. If that fits your definition of stoic, explain so I can expand on how I define it.


I think you're basing too much on personal experience, and your view of Te seems to have an Si flavor that I don't personally identify with. 

I think, in general, and when things are good, Te is stoic. It just is. It's objective. Then Fi hides itself. Of course we cry. I prefer to cry in solitude because I don't like expressing that kind of emotion in public, but I've certainly had moments where my emotions get the better of me, made all the worse because of my major depressive disorder. Again, there are so many variables in life that affect who we are and how we act.


----------



## Pressed Flowers

I think my sister is a Te-dom. She has many stereotypical Fe traits. She's a cheerleader. She lives on Instagram. She has a whole bunch of friends. But she doesn't lead by Fe, she doesn't understand any Fe things, when she feels emotion it's raw and upfront. She is emotional, she is open about her anger for example, she gets upset when she sees someone (namely me) being yelled at... But instull think she's Te-dom because she is so direct, politeness she doesn't understand, empathy/sympathy she doesn't understand...

I actually have a topic discussing her, but given that on thatbtopicneveryome agreed she sounds like an ESTJ kid I think she also stands as an example of a young Te-dom who doesn't shy away from emotional expression (and even typically feminine things).


----------



## Persephone Soul

Since no one really remembers the specific examples i gave for introversion, and it is hard for me to go back and look through the pages on my phone... could you guys think of some specific questions that dont take an essay to give an answer for, that would determine this once and for all?

I like TelepathicGoose's question on Fe dom vs Si dom. I answered si dom, but evidently it didn't mean much lol. But i did like her question. It was easy to answer haha


----------



## Deadly Decorum

shinynotshiny said:


> I think you're basing too much on personal experience, and your view of Te seems to have an Si flavor that I don't personally identify with.
> 
> I think, in general, and when things are good, Te is stoic. It just is. It's objective. Then Fi hides itself. Of course we cry. I prefer to cry in solitude because I don't like expressing that kind of emotion in public, but I've certainly had moments where my emotions get the better of me, made all the worse because of my major depressive disorder. Again, there are so many variables in life that affect who we are and how we act.


Exactly. That's what I'm trying to say. It wouldn't be surprising for me for a Te type to discuss emotion and feeling, or to cry in front of people. Personally I think it would be utilized in a Te way (acting this way is effective and efficient, will aim towards the goal, will get what I want). And even the most stoic person in the world could have an emotional outburst, certainly. As you put it, there are a multitude of different factors for this. I wonder if Te dom women are more likely to come across as emotional than Te dom men due to conditioning, for instance. I'm sure there are stoic Te types and not so stoic Te types. 

That's how I'm meaning to describe Te. Objective. Te just goes with it, what will work, in that moment. What will be the most efficient and effective way to solve a problem. If crying or putting on an emotional tirade will effectively work towards a logical goal, I wouldn't put it past a Te dom. Maybe what you're all trying to say is the act of Te is stoic, not that Te cannot act emotional or be highly emotional. I could work with that. It's objective either way. Would putting on an emotional act in order to achieve a goal really be emotional underneath the gloss? It'd probably be better to define it as pragmatic in that sense. Clearly logic is involved. Of course, it's difficult for me to describe Te as a Ti type. It doesn't resonate with me. And of course Si makes me adorably (and frustratingly) narrow.

Te certainly is pragmatic, and thus stoic, in that sense. I've known Te types say that their act of hospitality is practical. Someone is hungry, so I'll feed them. Someone needs their toilet fixed, they don't want to pay a plumber, they don't know how to fix the problem themselves, the Te type knows exactly what's needed, so they'll do it. I suppose I'm just equating stoicism with no emotion; no laughing, no joking. No facial expressions. Perhaps that's not what anyone meant at all.

@SugarPlum- If I'm remembering correctly, your arguments for introversion were that you need to be alone, and can spend insurmountable time alone, and really only feel expressive towards your family. Chill in your PJs alone for 3 days sort of thing. Considering if your Ne or Ti is stronger will certainly help. Maybe you're an Si dom. I still think Fe dom. There's definitely Si in your posts, but Fe is insane. But at the very least, ambirverted. 

You know yourself best at this point. If you spend time analyzing yourself and feel as if introversion still resonates with you, then go for it.


----------



## Immolate

hoopla said:


> Exactly. That's what I'm trying to say. It wouldn't be surprising for me for a Te type to discuss emotion and feeling, or to cry in front of people. *Personally I think it would be utilized in a Te way (acting this way is effective and efficient, will aim towards the goal, will get what I want).*


That's cold. 

...also reaching.



hoopla said:


> And even the most stoic person in the world could have an emotional outburst, certainly. As you put it, there are a multitude of different factors for this.


I think you took the label too literally. In _general_, a Te/Fi user may appear stoic, but that doesn't mean they're incapable of emotional vulnerability or openness with certain groups of people. 



hoopla said:


> I wonder if Te dom women are more likely to come across as emotional than Te dom men due to conditioning, for instance. I'm sure there are stoic Te types and not so stoic Te types.


I'm sure gender and social conditioning play a role.



hoopla said:


> That's how I'm meaning to describe Te. Objective. Te just goes with it, what will work, in that moment. What will be the most efficient and effective way to solve a problem. If crying or putting on an emotional tirade will effectively work towards a logical goal, I wouldn't put it past a Te dom.


Personally, the thought of faking an emotional outburst to get something I want is embarrassing and childish. Even if the emotions being expressed are fake, it still presents a certain image that can leave you vulnerable.



hoopla said:


> Maybe what you're all trying to say is the act of Te is stoic, not that Te cannot act emotional or be highly emotional.


Yes.



hoopla said:


> Of course, it's difficult for me to describe Te as a Ti type. It doesn't resonate with me. And of course Si makes me adorably (and frustratingly) narrow.


No. I hope I haven't come across as condescending. You've had specific run-ins with Te-doms and Te users, and unfortunately they sound unpleasant.


----------



## Immolate

@hoopla, you made your edit while I was writing my post. 



hoopla said:


> Te certainly is pragmatic, and thus stoic, in that sense. I've known Te types say that their act of hospitality is practical. Someone is hungry, so I'll feed them. Someone needs their toilet fixed, they don't want to pay a plumber, they don't know how to fix the problem themselves, the Te type knows exactly what's needed, so they'll do it. I suppose I'm just equating stoicism with no emotion; no laughing, no joking. No facial expressions. Perhaps that's not what anyone meant at all.


I'm sure there are people like this out there, but if I help someone, it's because I want to and because it comes from the heart. It's not all about being practical.


----------



## Persephone Soul

shinynotshiny said:


> hoopla said:
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly. That's what I'm trying to say. It wouldn't be surprising for me for a Te type to discuss emotion and feeling, or to cry in front of people. *Personally I think it would be utilized in a Te way (acting this way is effective and efficient, will aim towards the goal, will get what I want).*
> 
> 
> 
> That's cold.
> 
> ...also reaching.
> 
> 
> 
> hoopla said:
> 
> 
> 
> And even the most stoic person in the world could have an emotional outburst, certainly. As you put it, there are a multitude of different factors for this.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think you took the label too literally. In _general_, a Te/Fi user may appear stoic, but that doesn't mean they're incapable of emotional vulnerability or openness with certain groups of people.
> 
> 
> 
> hoopla said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder if Te dom women are more likely to come across as emotional than Te dom men due to conditioning, for instance. I'm sure there are stoic Te types and not so stoic Te types.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sure gender and social conditioning play a role.
> 
> 
> 
> hoopla said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's how I'm meaning to describe Te. Objective. Te just goes with it, what will work, in that moment. What will be the most efficient and effective way to solve a problem. If crying or putting on an emotional tirade will effectively work towards a logical goal, I wouldn't put it past a Te dom.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Personally, the thought of faking an emotional outburst to get something I want is embarrassing and childish. Even if the emotions being expressed are fake, it still presents a certain image that can leave you vulnerable.
> 
> 
> 
> hoopla said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe what you're all trying to say is the act of Te is stoic, not that Te cannot act emotional or be highly emotional.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes.
> 
> 
> 
> hoopla said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course, it's difficult for me to describe Te as a Ti type. It doesn't resonate with me. And of course Si makes me adorably (and frustratingly) narrow.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No. I hope I haven't come across as condescending. You've had specific run-ins with Te-doms and Te users, and unfortunately they sound unpleasant.
Click to expand...

There was a lot more. I actually put it on another thread too. You mentioned your mom as one to do the pj's thing. Although if i am being embarrassingly honest, i kinda live in my pjs lol. I dont work and I usually dont even get "dressed" unless going out lol. Horribly lazy i know. I mean i bathe daily and out on fresh pjs, but pjs they are haha

Anyway I do agree with ambivert, but lean towards a more introverted one. 

I know that almost everything extroverted is not me. Accept my excitement lol. 

Can anyone think of questions? 

And hoopla, did you you have anything to say for the ENFP argument the kitty pic person one gave. Forgot their name lol


----------



## Deadly Decorum

shinynotshiny said:


> That's cold.
> 
> ...also reaching.


Interestingly, I don't really see that as cold. Just decisive, pragmatic. I suppose I see cold as no ambition, no drive, no feeling, just seething rage. All the different connotations people have towards words. Interesting. But I think the point that was made is more clear now. Te just goes for it, and that can look heartless to Fe types, even if the best interest of others is at stake in a Te's decision. 





shinynotshiny said:


> I think you took the label too literally. In _general_, a Te/Fi user may appear stoic, but that doesn't mean they're incapable of emotional vulnerability or openness with certain groups of people.


Yeah, I agree. I suppose I was thinking of those who type seemingly emotional people as Feelers when they are in fact thinkers, and worried those who may take the label to mean such a thing as Te never shows emotion. There definitely are some people who feel that way, which is why I commented on it.



shinynotshiny said:


> Personally, the thought of faking an emotional outburst to get something I want is embarrassing and childish. Even if the emotions being expressed are fake, it still presents a certain image that can leave you vulnerable.


Interesting. I'm open to the idea of being wrong here. Maybe this is actually an Fe thing. Who knows. I still wouldn't put it past a Te, if it will work towards a goal effectively. Sometimes if I can't explain anything, I hypothesize to provide an answer and it often gets me in trouble.



shinynotshiny said:


> No. I hope I haven't come across as condescending. You've had specific run-ins with Te-doms and Te users, and unfortunately they sound unpleasant.


No, you haven't at all. I've met Te types that I get along with great. My math teacher I never thought was cold, and certainly not mean. (Which is what bothered my about the idea that Fi/Te is more polite than Te/Fi. I don't think it's healthy Te's intention to be impolite at all. They just call it as they see it). In fact, he was the greatest math teacher I've ever had. At times Te can rub me the wrong way, as Ti can rub Te the wrong way, but I have nothing against Te as a whole. I'm friends with some Te types. I can chill with them. In fact, I've known Fe types I cannot stand at all. You definitely aren't cold imo... or at least not in the inside. Outside, through presentation, maybe, and I realize that was the point being made now (though I can still see how such terminology could cause negative or stereotyped beliefs of Te, but it makes sense now. Just calling things out, no matter what people think, because that's how they are) but I think the differentiation in our argumentation styles is clear. This is partly what I enjoy about arguing with Te. Reminds me of how differently we think.


----------



## Deadly Decorum

shinynotshiny said:


> @hoopla, you made your edit while I was writing my post.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure there are people like this out there, but if I help someone, it's because I want to and because it comes from the heart. It's not all about being practical.


Yes, definitely. You have Fi after all, and as we've established (and I highly misinterpreted) Te is not heartless. It definitely cares for people, simply in ways that are different from Fe. Though maybe that's not necessarily an example of helping, but solving a problem. Solving a problem definitely helps people though, and I think that's something Thinkers in general are likely attuned to.


----------



## Immolate

hoopla said:


> I think the differentiation in our argumentation styles is clear. This is partly what I enjoy about arguing with Te. Reminds me of how differently we think.


I'm glad this didn't end badly :tongue:

As for my comment about being cold: it felt like you were saying that any time a Te user cries in public or is open about their feelings, they're doing it with an ulterior motive. Manipulative. Fake. These are things I don't like or agree with. Also, as I said, I don't see myself ever faking an emotional outburst to get something from someone, but that doesn't mean it's impossible for a Te user.


----------



## Deadly Decorum

shinynotshiny said:


> I'm glad this didn't end badly :tongue:
> 
> As for my comment about being cold: it felt like you were saying that any time a Te user cries in public or is open about their feelings, they're doing it with an ulterior motive. Manipulative. Fake. These are things I don't like or agree with. Also, as I said, I don't see myself ever faking an emotional outburst to get something from someone, but that doesn't mean it's impossible for a Te user.


That's not what I meant. Everyone has genuine emotions. They simply express them differently, but I've known Te types who express their positive thoughts on something genuinely, for example if they thought some did a good job. I definitely don't think Te is all about ulterior motives. I simply mean that if a decision will effectively reach a goal, Te will utilize it. Similar to how an Fe user may mimic the emotions of a positive atmosphere or merge with the group collectively. Of course Fe doesn't do this all the time, and I certainly don't think Te would do something like that all the time either. Factors, again.

Nah, it was never my mention to end this badly. I like to argue, what can I say.


----------



## Immolate

hoopla said:


> That's not what I meant. Everyone has genuine emotions. They simply express them differently, but I've known Te types who express their positive thoughts on something genuinely, for example if they thought some did a good job. I definitely don't think Te is all about ulterior motives. *I simply mean that if a decision will effectively reach a goal, Te will utilize it. *Similar to how an Fe user may mimic the emotions of a positive atmosphere or merge with the group collectively. Of course Fe doesn't do this all the time, and I certainly don't think Te would do something like that all the time either. Factors, again.
> 
> Nah, it was never my mention to end this badly. I like to argue, what can I say.


I see what you mean, although now I'm sitting here picturing an evil mastermind INTJ fake-crying to earn your trust and eventually destroying you roud:


----------



## Persephone Soul

ae1905 said:


> ae1905 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wasn't offended and you don't need to repeat what you've already said. I can guess why you think you might be an introvert.
> 
> Were your parents strict with you? Did they order you around the way you say you order your kids?
> 
> 
> 
> You don't have to answer this last part if it's too personal. I think you are probably an NFP, most likely ENFP. Your answer to the rain puzzle showed a quick intuitive grasp of the problem that betrayed some Ni, but you also quickly switched povs to consider the other possibility, something Ne does. You contradicted yourself, however, and did not appear to realize it, so you are probably a feeler. You do appear to have the Te concern for facts and Fi respect for others' opinions. You also have the ENFP Fi sensitivity to and aversion to conflict. ENFPs are supposed to be lenient parents, but if you were raised by strict parents, then that could explain your atypical parenting style. ENFPs are supposed to be the most introverted extroverts and that, too, is consistent with your scores and own impressions of your introversion. Finally, I went to your page and if that is you in your profile pic, then you look like an ENFP, also! _And _your quotations express the values an ENFP would hold--ie, authenticity, individuality, following your heart, love, idealism, freedom, happiness and joy, respect for others as individuals. Oscar Wilde was an ENFP, too.
Click to expand...

Yeah, i know i contradicted myself heh. I do that all the time, but purposely. I have to basically see it from each angle to narrow it down. So in that question, i needed to see how each opposing view would maybe see it. I kinda agreed with both, but then decided which made the most sense to me. I am notorious for playing devils advocate, but not bec i think its fun, or i want to be a stinker, but bec that is how i process lol


----------



## Deadly Decorum

shinynotshiny said:


> I see what you mean, although now I'm sitting here picturing an evil mastermind INTJ fake-crying to earn your trust and eventually destroying you roud:


This is what happens when I'm too trusting of people. Now I'm merely seconds away from my final moments. I love you all, thank you for dealing with my rambling. I was wrong to negotiate with a Te. They're monsters.


----------



## Persephone Soul

I think I may start a new thread. Pace myself. I rushed through this one. Obviously if i remain truthful and honest, my type isn't gonna change. So we'll see what happens i guess.

There was a TON of great great input and information on this thread and I still need to catch up. I am forever grateful for everyone's help, and I am still completely open-minded. 

I, however am truly considering xSFJ. It really is an extremely huge possibility, but i am just not completely sold YET. 

EVERYONE is still welcome to chat in here, and to sneak a peak on the new one.

Thanks again. I will let yall know, when the time comes that I have officially been convinced. xoxo


----------



## Pressed Flowers

hoopla said:


> This is what happens when I'm too trusting of people. Now I'm merely seconds away from my final moments. I love you all, thank you for dealing with my rambling. I was wrong to negotiate with a Te. They're monsters.


What the heck happened while I was gone


----------



## Pressed Flowers

@SugarPlum that could be an idea. This thread seems like it could have been rushed, which I think a lot of us might have contributed to. Keeping the chatting at a minimum on your new thread could be very helpful for your typing process. We'll see how that works. 

I also respect your decision to keep questioning until it makes sense for you. This is your type, after all. We're trying to make sure it fits and you're at peace with it. That is the purpose of this forum, after all. If that's not what's happening - and it seems that this is not what's happening - then I think it is best that we employ a new strategy to make it happen.


----------



## Persephone Soul

alittlebear said:


> @SugarPlum that could be an idea. This thread seems like it could have been rushed, which I think a lot of us might have contributed to. Keeping the chatting at a minimum on your new thread could be very helpful for your typing process. We'll see how that works.
> 
> I also respect your decision to keep questioning until it makes sense for you. This is your type, after all. We're trying to make sure it fits and you're at peace with it. That is the purpose of this forum, after all. If that's not what's happening - and it seems that this is not what's happening - then I think it is best that we employ a new strategy to make it happen.


Thank you, alittlebear. This was in no way anyone's fault really. I just need to breathe and not feel rushed (i did this to myself). But i am still so thankful for this thread though! It has a lot of great referencing tools to look back on.

Blessings everyone! You guys all rock.

Ps. I will still be poppin in, bec you guys are all so cool. Lol


----------



## Immolate

hoopla said:


> This is what happens when I'm too trusting of people. Now I'm merely seconds away from my final moments. I love you all, thank you for dealing with my rambling. I was wrong to negotiate with a Te. They're monsters.














so sorry SugarPlum!


----------



## Persephone Soul

shinynotshiny said:


> hoopla said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is what happens when I'm too trusting of people. Now I'm merely seconds away from my final moments. I love you all, thank you for dealing with my rambling. I was wrong to negotiate with a Te. They're monsters.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so sorry SugarPlum!
Click to expand...

Hehehe, love it.

And, pfft, no apologies necessary, silly.

I just hope yall dont feel like you wasted your time, because it did help. I got some questions answered, and yes, I developed more questions. .. but thats just me. Lol

Have a Blessed night.


----------



## 68097

For the record, making statements like: I'm so selfish. I'm so lazy. I'm so... etc., is all Fe.

Why? IN COMPARISON TO OTHER PEOPLE, I am ...

That's Fe.

I don't know that my ENFP friend has ever compared herself to anyone in her life. I've also never heard her make any of those self-defeating statements like that, although every Fe user I know is prone to them. Fe compares itself to objective sources -- social conclusions, outside information. I am not as thin or as pretty as what society considers pretty to be, so I am not beautiful. I do not accomplish as much as others, so I am lazy. Etc. 

I think you kind of want to be an ENFP, because ENFPs are considered cool. But while you do have a lot of Ne making you enthusiastic and considering of multiple perspectives, you're not abstracting and exaggerating enough to be one, in my opinion. You're dealing with the same biases that usually have Rapunzel wrongly cast as an ENFP rather than an ESFJ -- that creativity and enthusiasm makes an ENFP, when in fact... it really doesn't. 

If you were an ENFP, you'd have a highly immature lower Si prone to sentimental excesses. You know what my ENFP's Si is like? She's going to have her first pet cremated after its death, stick the ashes in her favorite childhood bear in a little pouch, and then be buried with it.

I'll just... let that sit awhile.


----------



## Persephone Soul

angelcat said:


> For the record, making statements like: I'm so selfish. I'm so lazy. I'm so... etc., is all Fe.
> 
> Why? IN COMPARISON TO OTHER PEOPLE, I am ...
> 
> That's Fe.
> 
> I don't know that my ENFP friend has ever compared herself to anyone in her life. I've also never heard her make any of those self-defeating statements like that, although every Fe user I know is prone to them. Fe compares itself to objective sources -- social conclusions, outside information. I am not as thin or as pretty as what society considers pretty to be, so I am not beautiful. I do not accomplish as much as others, so I am lazy. Etc.
> 
> I think you kind of want to be an ENFP, because ENFPs are considered cool. But while you do have a lot of Ne making you enthusiastic and considering of multiple perspectives, you're not abstracting and exaggerating enough to be one, in my opinion. You're dealing with the same biases that usually have Rapunzel wrongly cast as an ENFP rather than an ESFJ -- that creativity and enthusiasm makes an ENFP, when in fact... it really doesn't.
> 
> If you were an ENFP, you'd have a highly immature lower Si prone to sentimental excesses. You know what my ENFP's Si is like? She's going to have her first pet cremated after its death, stick the ashes in her favorite childhood bear in a little pouch, and then be buried with it.
> 
> I'll just... let that sit awhile.


Hi, angelcat. No, your argument seems legit. I wasn't sold on ENFP either. I wanted a rebuttal for it, bec "ae 1905" said some good points. Just like ESFJ has good, even some great points. I really want to make this clear. I don't WANT to be any specific type. Honest to God. That would beat the WHOLE purpose of me digging so deep. I think if I wanted to be an ENFP, I would not have started questioning it, bec I was set on it prior to me subscribing to your blog. This is the reason I am being so stubborn. I want the ACCURATE one, even if that meant STJ lol (no offense STJs). They are great too, really. Whenever i see the question, "what is your favorite type", I never can choose. So many good and not so good qualities to all of them. However if i had to pick one i favor a little more, it would prob be xNTPs (i actually value Fe) and technically, SFJs have NTP flavoring to them. They all share functions. So it would be easier for me to cling to SFJ in that sense.


And about the lazy and degrading comments I make for myself. Well, i think that has more to do with self esteem than anything. I am not so sure all Fi's dont pit themselves down. I actually do have a friend who is NO doubt about it, an INFP. She has low self esteem as well. She thinks she is plain etc. And my ISFJ sister, who meets every single point of one, never compares herself. So I think it all just matters. I was verbally abused. His word are actually what i hear when i degrade myself. That is a emotional issue, deeply rooted. Not a cognitive one. At least it seems.


----------



## 68097

SugarPlum said:


> And about the lazy and degrading comments I make for myself. Well, i think that has more to do with self esteem than anything. I am not so sure all Fi's dont pit themselves down. I actually do have a friend who is NO doubt about it, an INFP. She has low self esteem as well. She thinks she is plain etc. And my ISFJ sister, who meets every single point of one, never compares herself. So I think it all just matters. I was verbally abused. His word are actually what i hear when i degrade myself. That is a emotional issue, deeply rooted. Not a cognitive one. At least it seems.


This is fairly high Si. Not only do your previous experiences shape your worldview, it boils down to: "My experiences contract yours, so your conclusions are questionable... and too limiting." I would think high Ne would ... entertain everything, equally.

I do think your Si leads your Ne, in that regard, but like I've said... you're strongly using Fe/Ne.


----------



## Immolate

angelcat said:


> This is fairly high Si. Not only do your previous experiences shape your worldview, it boils down to: "My experiences contract yours, so your conclusions are questionable... and too limiting." I would think high Ne would ... entertain everything, equally.
> 
> I do think your Si leads your Ne, in that regard, but like I've said... you're strongly using Fe/Ne.


I think she makes a valid point, and I know Fi users who have low self-esteem themselves (myself included). There's usually a very good reason for that.


----------



## Pressed Flowers

I'm also inclined to think that @SugarPlum isn't just still questioning because she wants to be a certain type. I think she's made it clear throughout this entire thread that she is very open to other suggestions... But she wants to make her type truly fits, and I don't think any of us can deny her that. 

I also just want to add that I agree about FPs not being necessarily immune to low self confidence. I have an INFP friend as well and unfortunately she is very frequently putting herself down. While admittedly on the outside she is very aggressive and assertive in who she is, this is who I am this is what I think if you don't like that then what the heck, get out of my face, you're bad... but on the inside she's very sensitive, and she laments about her bad qualities, how she's unlovable and she's a bad person and no one will ever love her... It's obviously very sad when this happens, but... It happens. 

Also, everyone knows FPs are frequently typed E 4. And E 4s find themselves irreparably broken. So I mean. 

Also, agreed with SugarPlum about ISFJs not comparing themselves... My ISFJ friend is very resolute in not comparing erased to anyone. Any time I try to compare my work and her work in any way she goes "no, but that's not fair, because..." Of course she might do this because she has such a hard time and compares herself to others so often and has suffered from that, but on the outside at least she's against that. 

My dad has actually commented to me recently that one of my strengths is that is never wanted to be like anyone else. I didn't suffer from compare myself to others. Of course that's different now, I'm always comparing myself to people, but I find it interesting he thought I was so comfortable with myself like that. It wasn't true, but... All the same.


----------



## Persephone Soul

@Dreamer777

_"what activities energize you the most? (whether physical or intellectual) and what activities drain you the most?"_

*Energizes?... laughing, money (even though i HATE to admit it, and I give it away to the more needy every time i can, but it still energizes me), watching shows or movies by myself, losing weight LOL, connecting with someONE, getting out and seeing the daylight (feeling the sun on my face and it causing a tingle, oh and smelling the world LOL), but not so people  (I can be a hermit), sometimes reading some books, listening to sermons, reading the bible, playing mario kart as a family for chores (whoever loses that race has to do a chore), playing uno (board games) with the family, and MUSIC.

I know these are all superficial, but yeah...

Things that drain me? ... People, relationships, drama (even though it can be exciting to watch haha), expectations, HOUSEWORK OMG, parenting, my weight control (sorry i know i keep referencing that), my thoughts sometimes, and having a busy schedule.*


----------



## 68097

Fine. Stupid Fe-generalizing example. I apologize. Carry on.


----------



## ae1905

what do you think of women baring their breasts in public?...do you think they should be allowed to like men?


----------



## Persephone Soul

ae1905:17259650 said:


> what do you think of women baring their breasts in public?...do you think they should be allowed to like men?


huh? you mean, like top less? lol


----------



## ai.tran.75

angelcat said:


> For the record, making statements like: I'm so selfish. I'm so lazy. I'm so... etc., is all Fe.
> 
> Why? IN COMPARISON TO OTHER PEOPLE, I am ...
> 
> That's Fe.
> 
> I don't know that my ENFP friend has ever compared herself to anyone in her life. I've also never heard her make any of those self-defeating statements like that, although every Fe user I know is prone to them. Fe compares itself to objective sources -- social conclusions, outside information. I am not as thin or as pretty as what society considers pretty to be, so I am not beautiful. I do not accomplish as much as others, so I am lazy. Etc.
> 
> I think you kind of want to be an ENFP, because ENFPs are considered cool. But while you do have a lot of Ne making you enthusiastic and considering of multiple perspectives, you're not abstracting and exaggerating enough to be one, in my opinion. You're dealing with the same biases that usually have Rapunzel wrongly cast as an ENFP rather than an ESFJ -- that creativity and enthusiasm makes an ENFP, when in fact... it really doesn't.
> 
> If you were an ENFP, you'd have a highly immature lower Si prone to sentimental excesses. You know what my ENFP's Si is like? She's going to have her first pet cremated after its death, stick the ashes in her favorite childhood bear in a little pouch, and then be buried with it.
> 
> I'll just... let that sit awhile.



Haha "She's going to have her first pet cremated after its death, stick the ashes in her favorite childhood bear in a little pouch, and then be buried with it." Not to that extent but quite accurate for enfp - never knew it was inferior Si 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Persephone Soul

angelcat:16872969 said:


> INFP is probably correct. Everything in your answers seemed Fi to me.
> 
> I've never really considered ISFJ for you. No inferior Ne in our conversations.
> @Arrow might have more insight. He's better at spotting inferior Te than I am.


I just want to quote some early on answers. Not to call peiple out at all, just to give light to what people originally thought before the thread too a more emotional sharing free for all haha. 

this is also when I was extremely bubbly even.

To be clear, I am NOT debunking or denying Fe. just trying to wrap my head around it.


----------



## ae1905

SugarPlum said:


> huh? you mean, like top less? lol


yeah...this was a topic of debate here on PerC...I'd like to know what you think and feel about it?


----------



## Immolate

I know you said you were going to make a new thread, but I was thinking about something and wanted to present a scenario. I don't know if it'll say anything about your personality, but it's worth a try :tongue:

-

You join a book club and have a lot of fun for the first two weeks. However, you realize the club plans to read a book that goes completely against one of your core beliefs. Do you:

a. read the book because there's no point in making the club members uncomfortable
b. read the book because it presents a different perspective
c. read the book because it will give you ammunition during the book discussion
d. refuse to read the book and skip a few meetings
e. refuse to read the book and make an argument about why the club shouldn't read the book

or

f. other (explain!)


----------



## Persephone Soul

double


----------



## Persephone Soul

ae1905 said:


> Fe usually isn't passive in extroverts, not in feelers, anyway. Are you more sure of Fe or of extrovert?
> 
> I suspect parents can bring out their own primary functions in their children through their strong parental influence. I can see how your Te and no-nonsense attitude might have been learned from being around your father; if that isn't a function natural to you then it could mislead you when you try to type yourself. I'm not sure about your mother since you are not sure either. In what ways do you resemble her?


My soft heart, playful nature mostly.

We so happen to share the same values, so we bond over them. She raised me one way, I strayed...re-assessed and re-adjusted my beliefs.... she decided my way was better and joined me lol


----------



## Deadly Decorum

SugarPlum said:


> WTF?! LOL. I just now saw this. Ummm, I just can't. This was... nvm. Keep my comments to myself. Although I will say this, it saddens me (as much as I want to laugh), that she even finds it necessary to do, whatever it was that she just did. That in itself, is kinda, well pathetic. And pathetic can be sad. I couldn't even watch it through. STOP GOING TO THE ASSHOLES THEN! Sh*t!. IDK, this video was just weird lol


This makes me wonder how the majority of strong Fe types would react to this video considering the adverse reactions from @alittlebear as well. Maybe it's just a coincidence.


----------



## Persephone Soul

Maybe...


----------



## Pressed Flowers

hoopla said:


> This makes me wonder how the majority of strong Fe types would react to this video considering the adverse reactions from @alittlebear as well. Maybe it's just a coincidence.


Yeah... I mean, I wasn't disgusted by it, but it made me worry about the lady and how people will perceive her.


----------



## ae1905

SugarPlum said:


> Okay if we lived in a place where it is legal, therefore it is happening all around me... My husband and I would discuss how to handle this and come to an agreement. If that was the case then, yes... I would just leave... I was assuming she was doing it for sexual attention. She would have a one less tit if she WAS doing it for MY man's attention. He would have one less eye, if he paid her any haha.


Out of curiosity, can I ask how many eyes your husband has--or should I say, _still _has? 



> Again, I don't feel a man with a bare chest is a sexual thing. If he had his ding-a-ling out, then same thing would apply to him as the titty-poppin chick.
> 
> I was raised as a believer, semi-church goer lol. I know where this is goin, and with all do respect, I need to stop you. I have been down this rabbit-hole many times. For some reason, people raised in a religious background, are always deemed Fe users. I was raised to believe, yes... but I do NOT believe the way I was taught to, now as an adult. I found my own way, according to His word.
> 
> I know some will say just because I use the Bible as my authority, that that is an object, therefore Fe. Seriously? It is GOD.... If I didn't use the Bible as my authority, then I wouldn't be a believer. Therefore, that is essentially saying NO believers can be Fi users and ALL believers are only Fe's. I COMPLETELY disagree. My own morals I chose, are to listen to God as my authoritative. If a person isn't God, then screw them. I may oblige and adhere to laws etc...BUT if they go against my morals (mine are Gods) then I dont care if I die over it. It is, what it is. Not saying this cant be Fe either, I am just saying it can very much be Fi.
> 
> One's faith should be exempt. Point. Blank. Period.
> 
> Sorry that rant wasn't for you specifically, but anyone that thinks they can corner me into a damn Fe corner bec I am a Christian is preposterous. Not saying you were lol. I guess it was more of a disclaimer.
> 
> ANYHOO, with that all being said... further questions are most welcome. And appreciated.
> 
> If that was not where you were goin with that, I sincerely apologize BTW lol
> 
> I just want you to understand, me not liking another woman's tits in my husbands face, should have nothing to do with cognition in my opinion. I am PRETTY sure, many many many women would all say the same. MBTI processing excluded. That was my point. I didnt mean to come across as a crazy woman. I just have been down this road, and finally I erupted haha


I didn't say you were a Fe user because you went to church, just that going to church can skew the appearance of your value system, so it's something I needed to ask. In fact, however, I think your answers clearly point to Fi since you never denounce "nipple freedom" (as it was called on that debate thread) as an offense against other people or society, or even against your church since your main objection appears to be that you don't want your man to lose another eye. And what wife wants that? Don't answer that, it was rhetorical. Men don't want to hear women's male mutilation/retribution stories. We're funny that way. 

I think you are clearly Fi, so Te is also native to you, though that doesn't mean your father didn't influence its development. The only question, in my mind, is whether you are an intuitive or sensor, and what kind? Your solution to the rain problem suggested intuitive and that's why I thought you were an NFP. But your answer was so short I may have been hasty in my judgment. Let me think of a good problem to test your perception.


----------



## Pressed Flowers

I will say in response to the nipple thing... At first I also thought it was ridiculous, but I have a few friends who are in support of it and have beat me over the head with the idea that "breasts are not sexual, they're only sexualized by so key" and I've come to accept that. I wouldn't be particularly opposed to breasts uncovered in a society where that action was not so sexual. It would be difficult for that transition to happen, and I think that process of being abrasive about exposed nipples would be a messy one (and I honestly wouldn't be okay with it while it was happening, I would also seek to shield my children or students or whatever from that until it became normalized in society that breasts were not sexual), but the concept of a society where female breasts were not sexualized is not an idea I am inherently opposed to.


----------



## ae1905

SugarPlum said:


> My soft heart, playful nature mostly.
> 
> We so happen to share the same values, so we bond over them. She raised me one way, I strayed...re-assessed and re-adjusted my beliefs.... she decided my way was better and joined me lol


Why do you associate a "soft heart" and "playful nature" with extroverted Fe? After all, you are probably Fi and have these qualities. Or do you believe you have them only because you got them from her?


----------



## Pressed Flowers

I know Fi can have those qualities as well, but I'm just going to say that I would also describe myself as having a "soft heart" and "playful nature" - or rather, others would describe me having those qualities. I think it's an SP 2 thing perhaps and just an F thing in general.


----------



## Persephone Soul

ae1905 said:


> SugarPlum said:
> 
> 
> 
> My soft heart, playful nature mostly.
> 
> We so happen to share the same values, so we bond over them. She raised me one way, I strayed...re-assessed and re-adjusted my beliefs.... she decided my way was better and joined me lol
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you associate a "soft heart" and "playful nature" with extroverted Fe? After all, you are probably Fi and have these qualities.
Click to expand...


Firstly, I am relieved to know you didn't think I am a whackadoo for my rant, and that you found humor in it. Humor is what I was goin for, therefore a job well done on my end  lol jk 

anyway, yeah, i think its a feeler thing in general. We have such soft hearts and empathy. I am not positive in her F function. She may very well be Fi. I deemed her as ESFP (like my husband) for a while, but she isn't very, uh.. idk, active lol or daring, or thrill seeking. She is more chicken than i am really lol. But she is very impulsive, had her years of sex drugs and rock and roll. Not "deep" at all. In fact, my husband, mom and sister (isfj) think i am an abstract weirdo. They honestly come to me for advice about EVERYTHING. 

I asked this before to everyone, but I will ask you. Is NFJ out of question? It is what I first decided, and the descriptions have always fit the best. Even though you say Fi LOL . I just never got an answer from all the ones that swear by Fe for me.


----------



## ae1905

alittlebear said:


> I will say in response to the nipple thing... At first I also thought it was ridiculous, but I have a few friends who are in support of it and have beat me over the head with the idea that "breasts are not sexual, *they're only sexualized by so key*" and I've come to accept that. I wouldn't be particularly opposed to breasts uncovered in a society where that action was not so sexual. It would be difficult for that transition to happen, and I think that process of being abrasive about exposed nipples would be a messy one (and I honestly wouldn't be okay with it while it was happening, I would also seek to shield my children or students or whatever from that until it *became normalized in society* that breasts were not sexual), but the concept of a society where female breasts were not sexualized is not an idea I am inherently opposed to.


That's Fe since your concern lies in social standards and what other people might think during a shift in standards. SugarPlum, otoh, didn't say anything about social standards nor was she concerned with other people; she was just personally offended. So even if breasts stopped being sexual objects, she would probably continue to dislike the idea for the same reasons--eg, her hubby's baby blues (or baby blue, as the case may be


----------



## Persephone Soul

@ae1905 , When i had my bday dinner date with my sisters and then we all went to my moms. I asked them each to give me 2 words characteristics that summed me up the most, and if they were removed, I would no longer be me anymore. I asked my childhood best friend this a while back as well.


Best friend said : your Abstract thinking... and my sarcasm. She went on to say that she loves how i get so riled up over certain things and how my passion runs so deep.

My Sister (the one i am closest to) said : good advice, feisty'ness and passion.

My other sister said: my weirdness and sense of humor... and my smartness lol

And my mom... My ultimate bestie of them all, said : my wisdom and "deepness"


----------



## ae1905

SugarPlum said:


> Firstly, I am relieved to know you didn't think I am a whackadoo for my rant, and that you found humor in it. Humor is what I was goin for, therefore a job well done on my end  lol jk
> 
> anyway, yeah, i think its a feeler thing in general. We have such soft hearts and empathy. I am not positive in her F function. She may very well be Fi. I deemed her as ESFP (like my husband) for a while, but she isn't very, uh.. idk, active lol or daring, or thrill seeking. She is more chicken than i am really lol. But she is very impulsive, had her years of sex drugs and rock and roll. Not "deep" at all. In fact, my husband, mom and sister (isfj) think i am an abstract weirdo. They honestly come to me for advice about EVERYTHING.
> 
> I asked this before to everyone, but I will ask you. Is NFJ out of question? It is what I first decided, and the descriptions have always fit the best. Even though you say Fi LOL . I just never got an answer from all the ones that swear by Fe for me.


Your mother may not be an extrovert. She might be an IXFP by the sounds of it. Why does NFJ fit best for you? Ni, Fe?


----------



## Immolate

alittlebear said:


> I wonder if it was going in the direction of saying all religious people are Fe users. I don't know if this is a topic that would be too controversial to discuss, but I definitely do know some Fi-doms who are very religious? Religion involves a value system, and when Fi users adopt religious values into their values it can be very powerful for them.
> 
> I used to wonder if I could be Fe because I was so religious. I wasn't religious to please my parents - they didn't really get too serious about it, unlike me, who got pretty fanatical over it - but rather just... to please God. But I saw God sort of as a person, and even though pleasing God is sort of an Fi thing I guess I would justify it as Fe because I saw God similar to how I saw any person (caring wise), and I wanted to make God happy similar to how I wanted to make everyone happy. I didn't like sinning because sinning hurt God, and that's why I kept his Commandments and took them so seriously.
> 
> (Speaking in past tense because that was my thought process when justifying myself as a religious Fe user.)


Not limited to Fe users, no, but what do you mean by religious? Taking part in a religious community, organized religion? Or having religious/spiritual beliefs such as belief in a higher power or life after death?


----------



## ae1905

SugarPlum said:


> When i had my bday dinner date with my sisters and then we all went to my moms. I asked them each to give me 2 words characteristics that summed me up the most, and if they were removed, I would no longer be me anymore. I asked my childhood best friend this a while back as well.
> 
> 
> Best friend said : your Abstract thinking... and my sarcasm. She went on to say that she loves how i get so riled up over certain things and how my passion runs so deep.
> 
> My Sister (the one i am closest to) said : my weirdness, feistyness and passion.


Can you give an example of what she means by "abstract thinking"? "Sarcasm", "weirdness", "feistiness" are more FP qualities than FJ since Fe is more tactful.


----------



## Persephone Soul

shinynotshiny said:


> alittlebear said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder if it was going in the direction of saying all religious people are Fe users. I don't know if this is a topic that would be too controversial to discuss, but I definitely do know some Fi-doms who are very religious? Religion involves a value system, and when Fi users adopt religious values into their values it can be very powerful for them.
> 
> I used to wonder if I could be Fe because I was so religious. I wasn't religious to please my parents - they didn't really get too serious about it, unlike me, who got pretty fanatical over it - but rather just... to please God. But I saw God sort of as a person, and even though pleasing God is sort of an Fi thing I guess I would justify it as Fe because I saw God similar to how I saw any person (caring wise), and I wanted to make God happy similar to how I wanted to make everyone happy. I didn't like sinning because sinning hurt God, and that's why I kept his Commandments and took them so seriously.
> 
> (Speaking in past tense because that was my thought process when justifying myself as a religious Fe user.)
> 
> 
> 
> Not limited to Fe users, no, but what do you mean by religious? Taking part in a religious community, organized religion? Or having religious/spiritual beliefs such as belief in a higher power or life after death?
Click to expand...

For ME (I cant speak for her), religion is ritualistic. If one desires to take part in this, they have that right. I however, dont really do religion. I believe in Christ and all that theology stuff... so I am a Christian in that sense. But I dont pick a denomination. It isn't about a label. Or ritual. Its about my relationship with God/Christ only. 

Sorry, not sure if you meant that for us both. I dont condemn anyone who does partake in the religious field though.


----------



## Persephone Soul

ae1905 said:


> SugarPlum said:
> 
> 
> 
> Firstly, I am relieved to know you didn't think I am a whackadoo for my rant, and that you found humor in it. Humor is what I was goin for, therefore a job well done on my end  lol jk
> 
> anyway, yeah, i think its a feeler thing in general. We have such soft hearts and empathy. I am not positive in her F function. She may very well be Fi. I deemed her as ESFP (like my husband) for a while, but she isn't very, uh.. idk, active lol or daring, or thrill seeking. She is more chicken than i am really lol. But she is very impulsive, had her years of sex drugs and rock and roll. Not "deep" at all. In fact, my husband, mom and sister (isfj) think i am an abstract weirdo. They honestly come to me for advice about EVERYTHING.
> 
> I asked this before to everyone, but I will ask you. Is NFJ out of question? It is what I first decided, and the descriptions have always fit the best. Even though you say Fi LOL . I just never got an answer from all the ones that swear by Fe for me.
> 
> 
> 
> Your mother may not be an extrovert. She might be an IXFP by the sounds of it. Why does NFJ fit best for you? Ni, Fe?
Click to expand...

Basically the descriptions as a whole. Not so much in the breaking it down sense. I just started reading this book, and highlighting all the lines that describe me for each type. INFJ came out on top.


----------



## Persephone Soul

ae1905 said:


> SugarPlum said:
> 
> 
> 
> Firstly, I am relieved to know you didn't think I am a whackadoo for my rant, and that you found humor in it. Humor is what I was goin for, therefore a job well done on my end  lol jk
> 
> anyway, yeah, i think its a feeler thing in general. We have such soft hearts and empathy. I am not positive in her F function. She may very well be Fi. I deemed her as ESFP (like my husband) for a while, but she isn't very, uh.. idk, active lol or daring, or thrill seeking. She is more chicken than i am really lol. But she is very impulsive, had her years of sex drugs and rock and roll. Not "deep" at all. In fact, my husband, mom and sister (isfj) think i am an abstract weirdo. They honestly come to me for advice about EVERYTHING.
> 
> I asked this before to everyone, but I will ask you. Is NFJ out of question? It is what I first decided, and the descriptions have always fit the best. Even though you say Fi LOL . I just never got an answer from all the ones that swear by Fe for me.
> 
> 
> 
> Your mother may not be an extrovert. She might be an IXFP by the sounds of it. Why does NFJ fit best for you? Ni, Fe?
Click to expand...

she loves people. The more the marrier. We have soft hearts, but i think they are used differently.

oh and i edited that other post about the characteristics. My phone crashed.

and omg! You're killin me. He still has both his beautiful hazels left ;p


----------



## Pressed Flowers

shinynotshiny said:


> Not limited to Fe users, no, but what do you mean by religious? Taking part in a religious community, organized religion? Or having religious/spiritual beliefs such as belief in a higher power or life after death?


Well, for me I experience religion very spiritually. I am Catholic, I share most Catholic beliefs (apart from certain areas that might cause me to convert soon, sigh), but organized religion makes me uncomfortable. I know I'm Fe, but a lot of times when Christians get together in groups they do things that make me uncomfortable. (One of the head members of my Christian Ckub in high school sexually harassed me and sexted me, for example. But no one knew. He was still regarded as the most "religious" person in our school by a long shot. I don't know, I love God and I love Christianity but just personally I sense a lot of hypocrisy when you get a group together to talk about religion. It's especially hard for me because spirituality has always been so personal to me, I know people experience spirituality through groups but as someone who was bullied constantly by both her Sunday School teachers and classmates... I personally don't work as well with organized religion.) 

Sorry, that's babbley, but I wanted to clarify a little by what I meant in saying that I am a religious person. For me I am referring to a spiritual connection. 

And I think that's what I mean in general? Not "how do types react to organized religion," but "how do different types experience spirituality" (including non-Christian and non-monotheistic religions like paganism, certain spiritual types of agnosticism, Shintoism, etc.) 

Of course that's a deeply personal topic and I'm not sure if it would turn out worse than out brief tangle with LGBT topics, but I would be interested if anyone had any input on this.


----------



## Immolate

SugarPlum said:


> for ME (I cant speak for her), religion is ritualistic. If one desires to take part in this, they have that right. I however, dont really do religion. I believe in Christ and all that theology stuff... so I am a Christian in that sense. but I dont pick a denomination. It isn't about a label. Or ritual. Its about my relationship with God/Christ only.
> 
> Soryy, not sure if you meant that for us both. I dont condemn anyone who does partake in the religious field though.


No need to apologize, I wanted to see both sides roud:

If I understand you correctly, you're saying you don't go to church or church services on a regular basis and so on? That's part of what I wanted to know, because I imagine Fe users are more oriented towards community whereas Fi users would experience their faith in a more personal way.


----------



## Persephone Soul

shinynotshiny said:


> SugarPlum said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lips (or fingers rather) are sealed, haha. I hope thus is one of those *"agree to disagree"* things.
> 
> 
> 
> You mean with me?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just don't want to promote an idea like that and have people type themselves a certain way because of it.
Click to expand...

No lol. Bec I disagree with Catholicism, and both of the 2 awesome girls here, are Catholic. Lol 

Out of respect to them.


----------



## Persephone Soul

I was raised in an Assembly of God church. They are basically another, more tame version of Pentecostal. 

I know first hand what that's all about lol.


----------



## Pressed Flowers

shinynotshiny said:


> Sounds like a regular Sunday from my childhood (without the screaming) lol
> 
> I didn't think anyone would be freaked out by it, although we may have different ideas of what it means to freak out.


Yeah, I mean like internally it made me pretty unsettled. Being Fe users, my dad and I didn't quite know what to do. My mom was like raised Baptist so she seemed okay, but since my dad and I were both raised Catholic we were both like... unsure what to do. We didn't feel comfortable being as open as they were but like he tried to sway to the music at least and eventually I did too. 

It was just so unusual for us. With Catholic masses it's so much easier. You have to know the traditions or it's uncomfortable, it took me until I was ten to figure out how to do everything, but our music is beautiful and everything is so... peaceful, we all have a place and we follow it gorgeously. I don't know, I just love it. 

Also @SugarPlum Sorry, we should stop talking about it. I think @shinynotshiny is correct that it's hard to type based on how one approaches religion/spirituality.


----------



## Immolate

alittlebear said:


> Yeah, I mean like internally it made me pretty unsettled. Being Fe users, my dad and I didn't quite know what to do. My mom was like raised Baptist so she seemed okay, but since my dad and I were both raised Catholic we were both like... unsure what to do. We didn't feel comfortable being as open as they were but like he tried to sway to the music at least and eventually I did too.
> 
> It was just so unusual for us. With Catholic masses it's so much easier. You have to know the traditions or it's uncomfortable, it took me until I was ten to figure out how to do everything, but our music is beautiful and everything is so... peaceful, we all have a place and we follow it gorgeously. I don't know, I just love it.
> 
> Also @_SugarPlum_ Sorry, we should stop talking about it. I think @_shinynotshiny_ is correct that it's hard to type based on how one approaches religion/spirituality.


Oh, I never danced or sang, I left that for everyone else :tongue:

It's interesting because I thought Fe users would have an easier time with that, but then it goes back to how a person was raised and what they've become used to.

So, yeah, it really won't say much.


----------



## Persephone Soul

Probably right. Like I said, one's faith should prob be exempt.


----------



## Persephone Soul

Okie Dokie.... so @ae1905 I hope you can see the scanned pages...


----------



## Persephone Soul

cont'd...


----------



## Persephone Soul

ae1905 said:


> Were you surprised by the words used to describe you? Was that the first time you heard them? Did you agree with all of them? Have you discussed MBTI with those ppl?


*You are surely a strong Ti user LOL. 

- Nope. I have heard this for forever.
- Nope, and it won't be the last lol 
- Yup. It is the way I see myself as well. 
*
_in·tu·i·tive
inˈto͞oədiv/
adjective
adjective: intuitive

using or based on what one feels to be true even without conscious reasoning; instinctive._

*Yup. ^*


----------



## Persephone Soul

BTW - according to this video, I would describe myself as the Beta quadrant. Not sure how accurate it is. I know I score INFj and INFp both in socionics. Which would be Gamma I think, and Beta. But according to arkigos, I'm an alpha. I know he is known to be one of the best at typing on this forum, so there may be merit to that. I mean, i dont deny it, but it does seem more like my husband. Or my mom, more than me.

Anyway, here it is.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=a_RKzwf2BCw


----------



## Persephone Soul

And here is the link to the online description if INFJ from his book. He is my favorite source.

http://personalityjunkie.com/the-infj/


----------



## 68097

I really don't think you're a Ni-dom. If you have it, it's somewhere else in the stack.


----------



## Immolate

^I agree.

*Edit:* I looked through your highlights and I hesitate (or outright refuse) to type anyone based on feelings of depression or low self-worth. I also noticed that a lot of what you highlighted was Fe, such as turning to others for support, wanting to create a cheery atmosphere, feeling better after expressing feelings (either through words or crying), expressiveness, and so on. You have very strong feelings about your faith and base a lot of what you follow on the Bible. In fact, you believe churches often deviate from the Bible, which tells us you consider the Bible the source of moral authority. Perhaps the "Fi" we've seen is simply the strength of your conviction and your refusal to give up such an important aspect of your life.

So, I agree with Fe, but I don't think you're INFJ. In that case, ESFJ makes more sense.


----------



## Persephone Soul

angelcat said:


> I really don't think you're a Ni-dom. If you have it, it's somewhere else in the stack.


Why? How does one even 'show' Ni?

Could it not be that I have mistaken Ni for Fi? They have a stubborness to them for how they see their ideals. Si can as well, but it is past experience centered. Mine is not. It is how I see the world should be. I dont want to force the world to be my way, but I do want to lead through example and inspiration maybe to eventually make it that way. I feel like that will never happen though. So I just stay committed to MY ideal and conviction. 

I do actually feel like I may use it over Ne. I know I have displayed tremendous energy, but honestly, its bec I am nervous. Nervousness equals ADD like energy for me. Ask anyone who knows me. I am very zen (maybe bitchy even), sometimes silly by nature. In a calm atmosphere with those who i know. That is why I wanted to start a new thread, so i can calm down and breathe. ..then maybe people could get the real vibe from me, bec I guess my answers came second to the energy i displayed. 

I am not trying to be anything I am not. I just really do not think ESFJ is me. I wish I could take this whole thread back and any preconceived notions and , BREATHE and start over. I painted a false picture with nervous energy. If I could have answered these questions to say, my mom.. or whatever, it would have been a completely different vibe. Completely. Same answers though. 

I think I can very much be an Ni dom. Tell how I can't be. Ask me questions that are strictly Ni oriented.

Think about it. I am trying to come to ONE answer. I believe in my faith there is only ONE truth. I believe in everything in life there is only ONE truth, and I am on a daily search for it. I totally see things in images, but i thought everyone did. When i space out, i am not thinking about different possibilities, or not even the past (minus the pain from my dad), but its always like a movie playing in my head. Usually of things that didnt even happen before. I play out conversations and how they will go. I play out so many things internally. I literally thought this is what everyone did. I dont know if you remember ny post about my husbands crazy amount amof alarm clocks going of one morning. Probably wont make any sense now, but I referred them to different jungle animals. The main loud one was the lion (the king). This was all while half asleep. I yelled to the alarm clock thst "OKAY, we all know. You're the king. We hear your roar. JOHN SHUT UP YOUR JUNGLE!". Bad example s probably lol. Just because I am not very goal oriented (actually i have certain ideals, but i just cant seem to put them in motion). I see and read between the lines so much so, that people are like... where did that come from. Or, you're making something out of nothing. 

Angelcat, what abt when i just knew something was overwhelming you? Did any other subscriber make that assumption? 
start over.


----------



## ae1905

SugarPlum said:


> Haha OH! Yeah physically lol. And she doesn't necessarily seek people out. She is like the most chill person ever. Goes with the flow with everything. Five people come through her door...cool. Her kids say hey mom my 4 friends are coming over, then you have to take us to the mall and then pick us up etc. ...cool. If I said hey mom, i have to live with you for a month. . Cool. Hey mom, lets go to this very loud concert with thousands of people. ..okay. Hey mom, meet me at dennys and i am gonn bring 10 people you dont know...what's that?..cool. lol
> 
> She is so chill and warm at the same tine haha


Your mom looks like an ISFP.


----------



## ae1905

SugarPlum said:


> cont'd...
> 
> View attachment 319402
> 
> 
> View attachment 319410
> 
> 
> View attachment 319418
> 
> 
> View attachment 319426


Did you do the same with any other types?


----------



## ae1905

SugarPlum said:


> BTW - according to this video, I would describe myself as the Beta quadrant. Not sure how accurate it is. I know *I score INFj and INFp both in socionics*. Which would be Gamma I think, and Beta. But according to arkigos, I'm an alpha. I know he is known to be one of the best at typing on this forum, so there may be merit to that. I mean, i dont deny it, but it does seem more like my husband. Or my mom, more than me.
> 
> Anyway, here it is.
> http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=a_RKzwf2BCw


INFj and INFp don't share any cognitive functions. So that test isn't working for you. Why does arkigos think you are alpha quadrant?


----------



## ae1905

What kind of advice do ppl ask you for?


----------



## Persephone Soul

You know, I have thought about that. ISFP. Its just that she isn't all intense with her emotions. Nor very intuitive (I think they are the most intuitive of the sensors bec of their stack ). She is kind of oblivious actually lol

And yes I did do the highlights for all the other "F" types.

And yeah, I know they dont share functions. That is why its hard for meee to go based off of tests. My cognitive function results are always borderline from one another.

And I can't answer for arkigos. But I am assuming it is all that energy I barffed out throughout this thread. Again, I am pissed at myself. I do it in person too. When I feel like everyone is watching or nervous in any way. I start acting like I am on crack. Seriously. Some kind of defense mechanism maybe? It is purely out of nervousness and not my natural state.

I am also surrounded by sensors. I mean EVERYONE in my circle. And i think there is something to say about the fact they they find my way of thinking odd. They all call me weird. I freak my husband out sometimes just as much as I bore him lol but I do know how to let loose and I believe its with low Se. That seems to be the way him and I bond. over Se related things. I am pretty sure he is an ESFP btw.


----------



## Persephone Soul

ae1905 said:


> What kind of advice do ppl ask you for?


Everything. Relationships mostly. I give a new perspective. I read between the lines and then translate to the couple what the other is TRYING to say. I am also never wrong. 

Honest to God, I am known as the wise one. I am ALWAYS told I should be a counselor and that I have more wisdom than anyone my age . My mom's friends would always tell her I was like a little grown up. So poised and smart.

I just got done telling my sister the other day that i see water when i look in her eyes. She is a true INFP. I see so much emotion deep inside, with clashing waves ( She is barely 18 and fairly immature), and she just needs feel the pain of the waves, to be able to fully control them. Soon the waves will turn to placid peace.

Yeah, i weirded her out lol


----------



## ae1905

What are your thoughts about the future? You can interpret this question any way you like.


----------



## Pressed Flowers

Just concerning Ni...

I won't give a thought as to whether you have it, but I will say...

I remember you mentioning, or highlighting, the INFJ part where it said that you experienced frequent déjà by, intuitive knowing... At least in my auxiliary experience with Ni, that's not exactly what Ni is. I think that's actually more Ne (although of course I don't have much to confirm that beyond what I've read telling me the same thing). To me Ni is more... drinking in the environment. Observing, observing, then very privately plugging in my findings (mostly subconsciously) into this fluid glob that's in my mind which is my "understanding of the world". 

Perhaps you are experiencing that, or perhaps you're experiencing intuition in, I think, the more obvious way - through Ne. 

I can't describe Ne, but the Ne users I know strike others as especially intuitive because they're so vocal about their insights. They catch onto things quickly. Metaphors come to them quickly. They... I don't know how they experience the world so I won't even guess there, but they seem so naturally in tune with the universe in some ways, able to figure things out very easily without storing connections and constantly honing their complex and indescribable understanding of the world like I think I have to. 

I know ISFJs who consider themselves psychic. Okay, just one in particular, but she is constantly (according to her) having experiences where shee predicts the outcome and it happens. She really thinks she's gifted in that way. (Her and an ESTJ girl would actually swap stories all day about their psychic endeavors, and they would act as if they were sort of better than us because they considered themselves "chosen," ha.) (Not that you would be that way, but the way they were so open about their insights and how intuitive they immediately seemed was funny considering function wise they were both rooted in Si.) 

Again, I'm not sure whether you truly use Ni or Ne, but I think it would be useful for other Si users like @hoopla and @angelcat to share their experience of intuition.


----------



## Persephone Soul

ae1905 said:


> What are your thoughts about the future? You can interpret this question any way you like.


It excites me, yet freaks me out. I kinda like the unknown. "Lets see what the future brings" mentality, but tbh, I feel like I am watching the world turn on itself and nothing good is going to come out of it. I am an E 468 "truth teller", so this may be part of that, but every time I think something is strange, and i see something that is happening, but nobody else sees, it frustrates me. 

So the future looks like a dark one to me. And all bec we aren't paying attention. I cant to wake everyone up, but I am just one person, and I feel. .. well, unheard. Why others dont see that we are walking so blindly off the edge, is beyond me. I am probably not making any sense.

I dont know, i guess like a trail of immature baby ducklings following what they think is there momma duck. But nope, its a wolf, ready to devour them. He is leading them straight into their death. I feel society are immature and trusting and following a imposter into their doom.


----------



## Persephone Soul

Now if you are saying in my little thoughts 
etc, it can be anywhere from those things, to just playing out a conversation, or my day, or a different reality sometimes (like what my life would look like if I ___instead of ___...). It varies, but I do know its next to never about thinking of the past. unless it is a painful memory or a moment of reminiscing.


----------



## ae1905

SugarPlum said:


> Everything. Relationships mostly. I give a new perspective. I read between the lines and then translate to the couple what the other is TRYING to say. I am also never wrong.
> 
> Honest to God, I am known as the wise one. I am ALWAYS told I should be a counselor and that I have more wisdom than anyone my age . My mom's friends would always tell her I was like a little grown up. So poised and smart.
> 
> I just got done telling my sister the other day that i see water when i look in her eyes. She is a true INFP. I see so much emotion deep inside, with clashing waves ( She is barely 18 and fairly immature), and she just needs feel the pain of the waves, to be able to fully control them. Soon the waves will turn to placid peace.
> 
> Yeah, i weirded her out lol


Relationship advice usually is about reading between the lines, trying to understand what other ppl "really" mean? And many ppl give advice, many of them not Ni users. For example, my friends used to ask me for relationship advice (they're all happily married now, so I'm no longer in that line of work 

Do you ever predict what someone will do in a relationship or in any other setting? Do you get premonitions? If you do, can you give some examples?


----------



## ae1905

alittlebear said:


> Just concerning Ni...
> 
> I won't give a thought as to whether you have it, but I will say...
> 
> I remember you mentioning, or highlighting, the INFJ part where it said that you experienced frequent *déjà vu*, intuitive knowing... At least in my auxiliary experience with Ni, that's not exactly what Ni is. I think that's actually more Ne (although of course I don't have much to confirm that beyond what I've read telling me the same thing).


When I get deja vu feelings I think it is Si since it's some new thing reminding me of some old one.


----------



## ae1905

SugarPlum said:


> It excites me, yet freaks me out. I kinda like the unknown. "Lets see what the future brings" mentality, but tbh, I feel like I am watching the world turn on itself and nothing good is going to come out of it. I am an E 468 "truth teller", so this may be part of that, but every time I think something is strange, and i see something that is happening, but nobody else sees, it frustrates me.
> 
> So the future looks like a dark one to me. And all bec we aren't paying attention. I cant to wake everyone up, but I am just one person, and I feel. .. well, unheard. Why others dont see that we are walking so blindly off the edge, is beyond me. I am probably not making any sense.
> 
> I dont know, i guess like a trail of immature baby ducklings following what they think is there momma duck. But nope, its a wolf, ready to devour them. He is leading them straight into their death. I feel society are immature and trusting and following a imposter into their doom.


Are you talking about global warming?


----------



## ae1905

SugarPlum said:


> Now if you are saying in my little thoughts
> etc, it can be anywhere from those things, to just playing out a conversation, or my day, or a different reality sometimes (like what my life would look like if I ___instead of ___...). It varies, but I do know its next to never about thinking of the past. unless it is a painful memory or a moment of reminiscing.


How about your future?


----------



## Immolate

ae1905 said:


> When I get deja vu feelings I think it is Si since it's some new thing reminding me of some old one.


Deja vu has been linked to errors in memory, so relating it to Si makes sense.


----------



## 68097

SugarPlum said:


> Why? How does one even 'show' Ni?


Intense abstracting on a level I honestly can't see in you. Intuitive insights without prior knowledge, the ability to see beyond the conversation at hand to its eternal essence. Such intense obsession with the symbolic that reality is a distant, inferior, tainted, bland, menial object. 

You also have not really spoken of the future in this thread, until directly asked. The Ni-doms/auxes in my life live there. In the future. 24/7. So much so that I have to remind them, continually, to live in the present, or at least focus here, on me, for a moment. An INFJ's entire worldview is the pursuit of some abstract ideal driven to supplement and protect and increase society's inert goodness in some way. They have a vision for the future, an ideal that they want to accomplish, and are driven toward it with every fiber in their being.



> Could it not be that I have mistaken Ni for Fi? They have a stubbornness to them for how they see their ideals. Si can as well, but it is past experience centered. Mine is not. *It is how I see the world should be*. I don't want to force the world to be my way, but I do want to lead through example and inspiration maybe to eventually make it that way. I feel like that will never happen though. So I just stay committed to MY ideal and conviction.


How the world should be. Not the reality, but what it would be, perfected. The essence of Ne.

Ni sees _beyond_ the world. Far beyond it. 



> I play out conversations and how they will go. I play out so many things internally... I see and read between the lines so much so, that people are like... where did that come from. Or, you're making something out of nothing.


So do I. Those things are not inherently Ni.



> Angelcat, what abt when i just knew something was overwhelming you? Did any other subscriber make that assumption?


No, but no one else cares. And whenever I am depressed, it's not exactly ... hidden. My bubbly exterior vanishes.

Dread of the future, the sense of impending doom, etc., are lower intuition indicators rather than higher ones. The fact that you have a pessimistic view of the future probably means your Ne/Ni is tert or inferior.


----------



## Pressed Flowers

@SugarPlum your thing with imagining a "what if" scenario almost sounds like maladaptive daydreaming? I'm not sure how valid it would be to label it something like that - they throw the term around a lot on Tumblr, and that's where I learned about it - but... I can't say it's for sure an Ne thing, but that's one thing I don't experience. I'm all about the present and what WILL be. It pains me greatly to have to imagine something that has less than a billionth chance of happening. It's so... unreal, so pointless to me. 

Not, of course, that I want to belittle the way that you daydream and experience the world, but just that's something I can add and say I do not do, like at all. Could be telling of these functions involved. Could not. But just throwing that out there.


----------



## ae1905

shinynotshiny said:


> *Deja vu has been linked to errors in memory*, so relating it to Si makes sense.


How so? Aren't the things that produce deja vu _in fact_ similar in some ways? For me, for example, it's usually a smell or an atmosphere/ambience that causes the feeling.


----------



## Persephone Soul

shinynotshiny said:


> ae1905 said:
> 
> 
> 
> When I get deja vu feelings I think it is Si since it's some new thing reminding me of some old one.
> 
> 
> 
> Deja vu has been linked to errors in memory, so relating it to Si makes sense.
Click to expand...


When I get deja vu, its like... like that song I posted. The skye boat one. Where i said i feel like i have been there. In that land, in that time. I dont know. I cant even even explain it.

I am literally hurting my brain trying to give specifics lol. Specifics are hard work, man. I feel like i can never say it the way my brain is seeing it. 

And, for my future (specifics again, oye), I see myself evolved. Different, better and improved. Spirituality, mentally and physically. Like I can actually see what i look like. This makes me want to start doing all the things I need to do, to achieve it. Then back to reality. I get overwhelmed and bummed,an lose focus/motivation. Until I visualize it again. Its a vicious cycle for me really.


----------



## 68097

alittlebear said:


> I remember you mentioning, or highlighting, the INFJ part where it said that you experienced frequent déjà by, intuitive knowing... At least in my auxiliary experience with Ni, that's not exactly what Ni is. I think that's actually more Ne (although of course I don't have much to confirm that beyond what I've read telling me the same thing).


I have deja vu all the time. I am in the midst of a situation and wonder, "Did I dream about this before? Have I done this before? said this before? been here before?" I've had it happen in real life and in fiction, where I'll be watching something and wonder those things ... how can I be "remembering" something that is brand new? 

Se drinks in the environment, Ni interprets it. 



> I can't describe Ne, but the Ne users I know strike others as especially intuitive because they're so vocal about their insights. They catch onto things quickly. Metaphors come to them quickly. They... I don't know how they experience the world so I won't even guess there, but they seem so naturally in tune with the universe in some ways, able to figure things out very easily without storing connections and constantly honing their complex and indescribable understanding of the world like I think I have to.
> 
> I know ISFJs who consider themselves psychic. Okay, just one in particular, but she is constantly (according to her) having experiences where she predicts the outcome and it happens. She really thinks she's gifted in that way. (Her and an ESTJ girl would actually swap stories all day about their psychic endeavors, and they would act as if they were sort of better than us because they considered themselves "chosen," ha.) (Not that you would be that way, but the way they were so open about their insights and how intuitive they immediately seemed was funny considering function wise they were both rooted in Si.)
> 
> Again, I'm not sure whether you truly use Ni or Ne, but I think it would be useful for other Si users like @hoopla and @angelcat to share their experience of intuition.


Ha, ha. That's funny. I'm pretty good at predicting outcomes as well. (I know an ISTJ who is NEVER WRONG in predicting how something or someone is going to turn out. And I mean NEVER. She is scary accurate.)

Hmm, intuition. Well, it's my inferior and I still knew about sexual abuse being hidden in a family. I still get "vibes" around people that lead me not to like or trust them, and then later those vibes turn out to be accurate, because they've done something to prove they are untrustworthy. I sometimes know who's on the other end of the phone before I answer it. I usually guess the plot twists to anything within 30 pages or 10 minutes. (I figured out the twist ending to "Shutter Island" 6 minutes it; drove my friends nuts.) I can reach across a thousand years, or a million miles, mentally, and pull something into the present. I'm good with allegories, metaphors, and quickly figuring out analogies to help people understand a concept. I can even do it on demand, although it exhausts me. 

Yet, I'm still a Si-dom. Personal symbolism and mythologies propel me through life, running unconsciously in the background while all my external focus is on Fe (other people, interacting with them, helping them) and Ne (taking ordinary objects and transforming them into extraordinary things, seeing the world as it could be rather than how it is, and coming up with multiple ideas and interpretations of events, behaviors, possible outcomes, and people). 

Granted, I have a hell of a lot more Ne than a lot of ISXJs. Or maybe we all do, and we just don't share it much.

ETA: @SugarPlum, I'm going to laugh if, after 55+ pages of debate, it turns out you really are an ISFP like @Arrow said you were. Talk about playing ring around the rosy.


----------



## Persephone Soul

alittlebear, it really isn't a "what if" scenario. I feel it with every fiber of my being, that this is where the world is going. I see it. It isn't a question for me. This causes me anxiety too, bec it is so real and certain to me


----------



## Immolate

ae1905 said:


> How so? Aren't the things that produce deja vu _in fact_ similar in some ways? For me, for example, it's usually a smell or an atmosphere/ambience that causes the feeling.


You're right, but also:

Anatomical origin of déjà vu and vivid ‘memories’ in human temporal lobe epilepsy

Deja Vu

^Stuff like that.


----------



## Persephone Soul

My brain is fried to say the least.


----------



## Pressed Flowers

@SugarPlum sorry I wasn't more clear; I wasn't referring to that post about the ominous sense of knowing about our sad future, but rather this one (sorry I cannot quote it, I'm on my phone) 
" 
Now if you are saying in my little thoughts etc, it can be anywhere from those things, to just playing out a conversation, or my day, or a different reality sometimes (like what my life would look like if I ___instead of ___...). It varies, but I do know its next to never about thinking of the past. unless it is a painful memory or a moment of reminiscing."
Seems along the same lines as light maladaptive daydreaming... Nothing to be concerned about, but again something that I don't think I relate to well (unless I'm misunderstanding you still, which is quite possible)


----------



## Pressed Flowers

Also sorry for not liking posts at the moment, I promise I still love you all and want to thank you via thank function but I'm at loss as to how to do that on my phone. It's nothing personal ^^


----------



## 68097

alittlebear said:


> Also sorry for not liking posts at the moment, I promise I still love you all and want to thank you via thank function but I'm at loss as to how to do that on my phone. It's nothing personal ^^


Your Fe is showing. And it's cute.


----------



## Vermillion

Yeah ESFJ 100%.


----------

