# Dropping Out: Is College Worth The Cost?



## android654 (Jan 19, 2010)

This is an interesting piece I found on the topic on college education and the cost benefit ratio associated with it.


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## Shinji Mimura (Aug 1, 2012)

Lol, oh Libertarians, so silly.

Well, not for nothing, but I felt this video was a very "tell me something I don't already know" sort of thing. If anything, it was extremely interesting, almost felt like a fictional short story.

But, really, it was said by Peter himself:

If you want a job that requires a degree (professor, doctor, etc), then go to college
If you want to be an entrepreneur, don't go to college

For me, I want to be in a band. According to Thiel, I shouldn't be in college, especially since my current major right now is creative writing (formerly Asian languages and cultures), and no music as you'd probably think.

However, I'm in college because A. I realize the benefit of a liberal education, and B. I'd like to have a CAREER I can roost on whilst working on my music career, and not just my theater job that I had been at for 2 and a half years before I quit.

I definitely agree that most people don't know what they're getting themselves into, and, really, I wish we did more for our students. I realize college is out to make people responsible, independent adults, but I would honestly call a post-grad who moves home because of being unable to find a job "screwed over" more so than I'd call him "irresponsible" for not doing his research into his future.

I'd be down to live on one of those aqua colonies, provided it's safe from tsunamis


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## Michael82 (Dec 13, 2010)

it is better to finish something because it gives you a certain credibility. besides, if you choose a subject that you are good at or enjoy you have made the right choice. and everyone can find that, and that is why for example, going to school is obligatory and going to college highly recommended.

but if you really need some time out from school/college then i'd say take a year off or so and then come back and finish it. it can be a pain, but even with a degree you dont want to use for your future you can use it for other jobs as well. so my suggestion is: always finish your degree, sooner or later.


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## Kormoran (Mar 15, 2012)

I'd finish if I were you. Better to finish what you've started. Still...


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## Michael82 (Dec 13, 2010)

Cormo said:


> I'd finish if I were you. Better to finish what you've started. Still...


That's a movie, now get back to reality. The reason I am pursuing my degree is not to get a good job but to get respect for myself and my brains. That may be my personal reason but I bet you have yours too. And besides, sometimes I have doubts myself but if anyone can get a degree, then you and I can get that too.


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## kudi (Sep 27, 2011)

Economically speaking, despite the cost, over the lifetime of working you are still much better off. Education is an investment, so be smart about it. Only reason to drop out is if you got another investment that has an even higher potential payout. 

College is worth what you yourself put into it. The more your put into it the more you get out of it. The connections you form with other people is something you can't put a price on until much later. The atmosphere is also important, many people are exploring and finding their passions just like you are and that atmosphere allows a safe place to develop and be yourself. 

However do consider your financial situation. The goal is to maximize the quality with the limited funds you have. There are a variety of different options from 4-year colleges to trade schools, choose the best one you can afford and the one that will give you the best advantage for your field when your out.


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## UnderGroundKingz (Sep 3, 2012)

It depends what you want to do with your life. If you need a degree to be what you want to be (accountant, doctor, lawyer, nurse, teacher, psychologist, etc.) then the answer is no, stay in college; but if what you want to be doesn't require a degree (photographer, popular musician, actor, model, dancer) then you may want to give it some thought.


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## Chickadee (Oct 13, 2012)

I think it's a very good investment. Just don't splurge on college (go somewhere reasonable), commute if you can, major in something practical that is in the salary range you want and is stimulating to you (and has jobs), and you go from min wage to entry level salary overnight. You make up the cost of your affordable college in a year or two of salary (not by paying it off, but I mean by what you earn). Bonus, you learn something along the way 

It's definitely not for everyone, but I think it's a low risk way to go to earn more money and make more of yourself.


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## SuperDevastation (Jun 7, 2010)

College isn't for everybody.


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## Kormoran (Mar 15, 2012)

Michael82 said:


> That's a movie, now get back to reality. The reason I am pursuing my degree is not to get a good job but to get respect for myself and my brains. That may be my personal reason but I bet you have yours too. And besides, sometimes I have doubts myself but if anyone can get a degree, then you and I can get that too.


The point isn't that things worked out for Will Hunting in the in the end, it's that going to college won't automatically make you better at anything. Some of the most prolific, creative and talented engineers were apprentices or even self-taught. About 10% of students remember the content of a university lecture, 10 minutes after they heard it. Most people study for exams a week before them, pass them, and then two months later remember little of what they did that semester. For most people, college is about that piece of paper you get at the end, and, perhaps even more so today, socialising.

And then there's the inflation of degrees; because every man and his dog has a BA today, everybody's trying for MA's, and then eventually, you'll need a PhD to flip burgers.

Then again, I don't pay for college where I live, so it's all the same by me. I intend to go back for a second B.Sc, but that's because I enjoy learning and researching and doing all those things that universities do, besides teach.

My point was that having a degree and being able to back it up with the knowledge, reflection, understanding and maturity it once stood for, isn't necessarily the same thing.

Is that realistic enough, or is my head still in Hollywood?


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## android654 (Jan 19, 2010)

Cormo said:


> The point isn't that things worked out for Will Hunting in the in the end, it's that going to college won't automatically make you better at anything. Some of the most prolific, creative and talented engineers were apprentices or even self-taught. About 10% of students remember the content of a university lecture, 10 minutes after they heard it. Most people study for exams a week before them, pass them, and then two months later remember little of what they did that semester. For most people, college is about that piece of paper you get at the end, and, perhaps even more so today, socialising.
> 
> And then there's the inflation of degrees; because every man and his dog has a BA today, everybody's trying for MA's, and then eventually, you'll need a PhD to flip burgers.
> 
> ...


This is very true. I know formulas like the back of my hand, but that's from dozens of hours a week spent studying, so I can pass a midterm or final, then at the end of semester, provided I'm not taking a related or second half of the course I just took, I destory my notes and sell my books. I'm not studying to be an engineer, but math is still a requirement, and my grades were too high coming for me to take a cake class when I had AP courses lined up to help bolster my GPA and resume.


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## lifeisanillusion (Feb 21, 2011)

I didn't watch the video, but where I live in Canada you can make way more money in the trades than you can on average from colleg or university. There are unskilled laborers working the oil sands making more than educated people. College or university doesn't always equal best financial gain. As well, a lot of the people making crazy money in the oil sands or the oil patch are not happy. It can be a crazy life that messes up a lot of people. The choice is yours though.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

Even a lot of entry-level jobs require a bachelors in general. It seems stupid and pointless to me but I see it a lot. Its like thats taken the place of a high school degree requirement in someone's willingness to even let you in the door. A lib arts school is nothing but 4 years of hoop-jumping usually, with a few interesting courses.. so you can what, get into entry level clerical work? The courses I had to take were mostly pointless and I have forgotten most of the stuff I memorized to pass tests. Art history? Music appreciation? French even - I fucking never used my fleeting grasp of that language.. most of the math.. and so on.

If college was designed to cut out some of the bullshit and present more relevant courses both to your interests and you future career choice, I think there would be less of an issue with it. I will never think its reasonable to force college students to learn 75 percent irrelevant bullshit. And they can screw the philosophy of making us 'well-rounded.' College is fucking -expensive- and it should focus on preparing us to get an actual job so that theres a payoff. We have the rest of the hours of the day to learn what we deem important to become more well-rounded, and I guarandamntee you my choices would not include art history.


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## android654 (Jan 19, 2010)

Promethea said:


> Even a lot of entry-level jobs require a bachelors in general. It seems stupid and pointless to me but I see it a lot. Its like thats taken the place of a high school degree requirement in someone's willingness to even let you in the door. A lib arts school is nothing but 4 years of hoop-jumping usually, with a few interesting courses.. so you can what, get into entry level clerical work? The courses I had to take were mostly pointless and I have forgotten most of the stuff I memorized to pass tests. Art history? Music appreciation? French even - I fucking never used my fleeting grasp of that language.. most of the math.. and so on.
> 
> If college was designed to cut out some of the bullshit and present more relevant courses both to your interests and you future career choice, I think there would be less of an issue with it. I will never think its reasonable to force college students to learn 75 percent irrelevant bullshit. And they can screw the philosophy of making us 'well-rounded.' College is fucking -expensive- and it should focus on preparing us to get an actual job so that theres a payoff. We have the rest of the hours of the day to learn what we deem important to become more well-rounded, and I guarandamntee you my choices would not include art history.


This is probably the biggest point of frustration in the whole college process. Not only are you repeating math and science courses you've already completed in High School, it's mandatory and can really cut into credit hours that would be better utilized in courses aligned with your degree. While I do think that encouraging people to be more educated, by making a bachelor's more requested by employers, is a good thing but it does seem a little ridiculous to require a BA to do something you can be qualified for with vocational training.


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## Hypaspist (Feb 11, 2012)

Can't add much more than what's already been posted, but I can give some personal experience since I got pretty damn lucky.

I haven't finished college, 0 degrees, but I did get an entry level job. Now I am kicking myself for not finishing college. The jobs that have the more flexible hours or allow for more freedom require some sort of education, even if it's in something like English. The entry level job I have? Being the low man on the totem pole sucks because you have no voice and are treated like something that can be swept aside with ease. You're not much of an asset because (in my case) you don't have the skill set to progress anywhere. In my situation though, I insanely hate what I work with so there's 0 motivation to advance since advancing means more suffering.

So in my limited (but crash course-esque) real world experience, college is worth it. Even a good friend of mine who went on to start a successful business is going back to school to get a higher degree and unlock the possibility of a higher income in something more comfortable than what he's doing right now. I'm following suit soon.


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## jcamero (Oct 19, 2012)

I dropped out and I dont regret it one bit I had over 100 comm. college units transferred to university and after i thought of The debt burden this gov. has, the money printing(QE) the feds are doing, the 20% unemployment rate here in the U.S. yes thats right I said 20%, and the sky high tuition costs I said forget that. Im going to keep my $12 an hour job save money, open an online buisness, and invest in commodities because this country is 100% screwed. 

Im going to give it to you straight. The United States Is more in debt than any other country in world history (fact). The media concentrates on the EU only because they cant make payments on the debt or interest and people are rioting. The USA is simply buying time With all these stimulus packages. The scenarios i see playing out is A default on the national debt or a rapidly devaluing dollar. Both cases are going to end in a Collapse.


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## Lawless Land (Jul 10, 2012)




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## Michael82 (Dec 13, 2010)

Cormo said:


> For most people, college is about that piece of paper you get at the end, and, perhaps even more so today, socialising.


i would agree that college nowadays is a pile of bullshit but its still such a broad environment that you can make your own story of it still. i've seen many negative things such as students not wanting to study, wanting to party up until the bizarre point where you could get credits for studies by drinking alcohol. forming popular groups and claiming marks with that, etc.

if you are more of a unique person, you can bypass all that because you have the choice to be different. you have the choice not to drink too much, the choice to enjoy some studies, the choice to be yourself when being in or outside groups and not abusing your power to get marks.

we need these people to battle fucking idiots like Romney from the US, Wilders from the Netherlands (my country), companies that abuse animals/people etc. like some companies from my country and for example monsanto. people who know they dont get into bullshit. people who make a choice to be intelligent but can really add to people's lives and not distract from it. you have that choice.


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## Kormoran (Mar 15, 2012)

Michael82 said:


> i would agree that college nowadays is a pile of bullshit but its still such a broad environment that you can make your own story of it still. i've seen many negative things such as students not wanting to study, wanting to party up until the bizarre point where you could get credits for studies by drinking alcohol. forming popular groups and claiming marks with that, etc.
> 
> if you are more of a unique person, you can bypass all that because you have the choice to be different. you have the choice not to drink too much, the choice to enjoy some studies, the choice to be yourself when being in or outside groups and not abusing your power to get marks.


Yeah, that's true.


> we need these people to battle fucking idiots like Romney from the US, Wilders from the Netherlands (my country), companies that abuse animals/people etc. like some companies from my country and for example monsanto. people who know they dont get into bullshit. people who make a choice to be intelligent but can really add to people's lives and not distract from it. you have that choice.


I see what you mean. I can only speak for my own country (Norway), but unfortunately, academia is so far removed from the general population here that it doesn't really work. The reason why people like Romney, Wilders, Åkesson get elected is because academic and political elite are completely out of touch with the average citizen. The academic elite in Scandinavia, for example, tends to lean rather heavily to the left, in some cases extremely so. This is unfortunate because you end up with bickering between the political sides, where the political right argues that the political left has no idea what's going on outside their offices (an accusation not entirely untrue), and the political left arguing that the political right are uneducated fools (in some cases true).

Whether one can ever really create a society where the tradesman, the labourer, the academic and the politician/manager are all equal is unknown. It has been attempted before, but it hasn't really worked.


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## frenchie (Jul 7, 2011)

College is a joke. Is it useful? Yes, but I would do the math and not find oneself in over 35-40 thousand dollars in debt post college. That is even a heady amount of debt to find oneself in. 

I wish I went to my in state school and paid a lot less. The private college I went to was and still is a joke. I paid for 4 years of partying and a minimum wage IT campus job that landed me my current job.


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## Plaxico (Dec 11, 2010)

There's a thing called the Optimism Bias. Its when people overestimate their own abilities thinking they can be that 1 out of a 50000 that make it (made up stat but you get the point). Everyone seems to think they're brighter or luckier, or more driven then everyone else. Maybe they're not doing that consciously, but basically that's what it boils down to. i have a bunch of friends who talk about becoming entrepreneurs of course they haven't done squat yet. And the entrepreneurs I do know either have a backup plan/job/business or already had considerable experience in the field they were delving into. 

And @TWN, just cause your mother's life hasn't turned out the way she/you wanted to does not mean you have to go 180 degrees direction. You've got to find what works for you and quite frankly it doesn't have to be so much of a dichotomy.


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## android654 (Jan 19, 2010)

Aside from business and entertainment, has anyone really made a success in careers that traditionally require degrees without them?


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## BradyNotTachy (Oct 24, 2012)

Reading success stories of millionaires making it without a college degree is great and inspirational, but I'd wager for every successful entrepreneur at least a dozen failures occur. Having a degree definitely increases your chances of having a job and making a livable wage. Not everyone needs to go out and get a doctorate degree, or even a masters or bachelors. There are plenty of associate degrees and vocational training available too that will allow one to get a good job or career without going into a lot of debt to get the training or degree required. One reason student loans are becoming a new bubble is due to our society increasingly becoming one of debt and credit and not living within our means, including getting an education. College is expensive and the more you can reduce the need to get loans the better off you'll generally be. When I recently went to a financial adviser at a locale university I asked about scholarships available and other ways to cover my costs of attending because I wasn't interested in taking on student loans she looked at me as if I was crazy and said, quote,_ "I doubt you'll be able to get through university without taking out student loans and I'm not aware of any financial planning that could help you here with doing that. Here's some paperwork concerning student loan options that I recommend you look over." _It's no wonder that many students sign up for student loans without hesitation!


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## Azure_Sky (Oct 9, 2012)

College isn't for everyone. If you are only going to college to get a career, it can be either helpful or a waste of time and money. Really, college shouldn't be treated as just a means to obtain a career. It is also a way to broaden your mind. The things you learn in college can help you in unexpected ways. It can help you in your career, as well as in your life.


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## android654 (Jan 19, 2010)

BradyNotTachy said:


> Reading success stories of millionaires making it without a college degree is great and inspirational, but I'd wager for every successful entrepreneur at least a dozen failures occur. Having a degree definitely increases your chances of having a job and making a livable wage. Not everyone needs to go out and get a doctorate degree, or even a masters or bachelors. There are plenty of associate degrees and vocational training available too that will allow one to get a good job or career without going into a lot of debt to get the training or degree required. One reason student loans are becoming a new bubble is due to our society increasingly becoming one of debt and credit and not living within our means, including getting an education. College is expensive and the more you can reduce the need to get loans the better off you'll generally be. When I recently went to a financial adviser at a locale university I asked about scholarships available and other ways to cover my costs of attending because I wasn't interested in taking on student loans she looked at me as if I was crazy and said, quote,_ "I doubt you'll be able to get through university without taking out student loans and I'm not aware of any financial planning that could help you here with doing that. Here's some paperwork concerning student loan options that I recommend you look over." _It's no wonder that many students sign up for student loans without hesitation!


The prostitution-like distribution of loan pamphlets is to be expected when banks can purchase colleges and universities or become an influential partner in board meetings.

As for AA/AS or vo-ed training, that's fine. There's a lot of stuff you can do that will accept those credentials and pay you well for. However, you can't really settle for lesser training if you want to be a physician, a lawyer or enter an industry like drafting legislation for elected representatives or work in diplomacy. If you're the type of person who romanticizes your ideal career over the length of time you spend thinking over what you want to do, then the degree is a prerequisite. There's simply no way around getting in to the places you want to be like there's a way around accumulating monetary wealth.


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## TWN (Feb 16, 2012)

Plaxico said:


> There's a thing called the Optimism Bias. Its when people overestimate their own abilities thinking they can be that 1 out of a 50000 that make it (made up stat but you get the point). Everyone seems to think they're brighter or luckier, or more driven then everyone else. Maybe they're not doing that consciously, but basically that's what it boils down to. i have a bunch of friends who talk about becoming entrepreneurs of course they haven't done squat yet. And the entrepreneurs I do know either have a backup plan/job/business or already had considerable experience in the field they were delving into.
> 
> And @_TWN_, just cause your mother's life hasn't turned out the way she/you wanted to does not mean you have to go 180 degrees direction. You've got to find what works for you and quite frankly it doesn't have to be so much of a dichotomy.


There does.

*I actually have found what works for me, and that is the reason I made my initial statement; because I intimately know both sides.*

I could care less about my mothers life; but I am smart enough to learn from her mistakes. People that possess my talents typically dont get paid well unless they are working for themselves, so I decided having 100,000+ of student loan debt would only hurt me.

Most people arent self motivated enough to work for themselves, this is true, but that doesn't mean they cannot change.

Id rather make less working for myself, than get a fixed income working for someone else.

At least I know my work ethic, strategy, and enthusiasm will make a difference when it comes to my money and the hours I have to pull.

Here the thing that few people understand: *The entrepreneurs that are successful dont have a backup plan*; if they fail, they try again, and again; but* they do not revert back to were they were previously. 
*
People give up before they have a chance to succeed.

Refusing to realize that the possibilities are limitless.

*edit*

I rant alot. Ah, well.:laughing:


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## Plaxico (Dec 11, 2010)

TWN said:


> There does.
> 
> *I actually have found what works for me, and that is the reason I made my initial statement; because I intimately know both sides.*
> 
> ...


What I'm saying is that your mother whether she succeeded or not (in your view the latter) she does not represent everyone, or all college students for that matter. I'm not saying that that's what you are implying but one person does not carry the weight of the majority. Because she is your mother you're bound to be overemphasizing the impact either which way. Your mother's singular example doesn't represent college students any more than Bill Gates represents all entrepreneurs. And trust me, I may not know your mother, but I can assure you she knows a lot more than you think she does. Its good you don't want to repeat her mistakes, but she was in your position once, and don't you think she had dreams of her own as well? 

There really isn't such a thing as working for yourself because as a business you're working for the customers aka you depend on the customers, no sales, no meal. As far as the backup plan, I'm glad you understand that success isn't overnight, but successful entrepreneurs more than always had at least one, if not many failed ideas over and over, whether its the (relative) newcomer or the mogul each of those had a plan / company that fizzled, if you're unable to adapt then there is no survival whatsoever. And about the possibilities are endless there's a quote, "you can do anything but not everything." And the "giving up before chance to succeed" could just as easily be applied to the college route. Also, there are many many entrepreneurs who worked for someone else and got experience before venturing out on their own or took college courses crucial to their success. Many of the tech heads (e-startups, auto manufacturerers, software etc), worked under bosses prior to branching out, Oprah worked for 4 or 5 stations before "the Oprah Winfrey Show" (I"m not sure when she gained producer rights). Also, regarding the fixed income, its a double edged sword, i.e. fixed means at least you're guaranteed something (provided you keep the job) whereas when you're the head it could be $100, $1000, $10000, $100000, or -$10000 etc. 

Not trying to discourage you or push you in a certain direction, just want to state some points based upon realities. 

What are the talents that you possess?


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## jcamero (Oct 19, 2012)

SirDave said:


> I would never detract from the advisability of a degree for many people, but the universality of it's desireability for almost anyone who might want one is greatly over played, mainly by politicians. It might be that the intensity of people seeking a degree that actually should follow another course contributes more than anything to the loss of value of degrees in the workforce overall.
> 
> Another result is the cost of a degree exceeding the rate of inflation over more than a decade.
> 
> I will only mention in passing that college loans are the next phenomenon to rival the sub-prime mortgage crisis as a bubble. The guy in your video mentioned that, and it's been editorialized about for several years in the WSJ.


I noticed most people on this thread mentioning college as a bubble, or the poor state of are economy haven't been thanked. So I thanked you.


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## timeless (Mar 20, 2010)

When I think back on all the crap I learned in college, it's a wonder I can think at all.


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## Thomas60 (Aug 7, 2011)

The job of the college is to attract your money by supplying educational services.
We only care about your monetary return on investment as much as you do, in order to attract your money, since there are other ways to attract you.

Welcome to the private sector boys and girls. Where we don't care about the OP's question, unless ensuring your good ROI helps us run more effectively.


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## ewerk (Sep 22, 2012)

You should definitely check out the book I just read called The Education of Millionaires by Michael Ellsberg which speaks directly to this topic. He is a college graduate of a top university himself but almost all of the millionaires and billionaires that he interviews in his book either dropped out of school or never went. I'm not advocating one way or the other. It's just worth checking out. I myself went to a top college and don't personally feel that it's helped me in any way in terms of the work I'm doing now sad to say.


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## fihe (Aug 30, 2012)

@ewerk sounds like "The Millionaire Next Door" by Thomas J. Stanley and William D. Danko


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## cue5c (Oct 12, 2011)

ewerk said:


> You should definitely check out the book I just read called The Education of Millionaires by Michael Ellsberg which speaks directly to this topic. He is a college graduate of a top university himself but almost all of the millionaires and billionaires that he interviews in his book either dropped out of school or never went. I'm not advocating one way or the other. It's just worth checking out. I myself went to a top college and don't personally feel that it's helped me in any way in terms of the work I'm doing now sad to say.


That doesn't surprise me. People who make a lot of money usually bring something unique to the table. School is about homogenization. That's not to say they don't teach you to ask questions, but if you're feeding everyone the same knowledge then there's not much to be gained other than a basic understanding of whatever subject is being taught. When you're learning something on your own there's a greater chance you'll stumble upon some unlikely resources that lead to something new. 

And I don't think it's the school's fault either. A teacher is someone who's supposed to be knowledgeable on whatever subject they're teaching. Choosing to base courses around something new is more risky as you'd be learning along with the students. It's much safer to be taught something that you learned about in school as you were able to listen to the opinions of other classmates. Therefore, you'd have multiple interpretations of a subject at your disposal.


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## Ntuitive (Jan 6, 2012)

cue5c said:


> That doesn't surprise me. People who make a lot of money usually bring something unique to the table. School is about homogenization. That's not to say they don't teach you to ask questions, but if you're feeding everyone the same knowledge then there's not much to be gained other than a basic understanding of whatever subject is being taught. When you're learning something on your own there's a greater chance you'll stumble upon some unlikely resources that lead to something new.
> 
> And I don't think it's the school's fault either. A teacher is someone who's supposed to be knowledgeable on whatever subject they're teaching. Choosing to base courses around something new is more risky as you'd be learning along with the students. It's much safer to be taught something that you learned about in school as you were able to listen to the opinions of other classmates. Therefore, you'd have multiple interpretations of a subject at your disposal.



Dude. This is awesome. Quitting school tomorrow. Jk I graduated so look at me, I'm so cool. That's why I'm working in retail right now with my pointless liberal arts degree. Good luck to everyone who decides to waste their money in college. *take this with some grains of salt* Put the salt on your baked potato and enjoy life. This is Ntuitive signing out, peace.


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## fihe (Aug 30, 2012)

Ntuitive said:


> Dude. This is awesome. Quitting school tomorrow. Jk I graduated so look at me, I'm so cool. That's why I'm working in retail right now with my pointless liberal arts degree. Good luck to everyone who decides to waste their money in college. *take this with some grains of salt* Put the salt on your baked potato and enjoy life. This is Ntuitive signing out, peace.


ugh, I graduated with a liberal arts degree too and I still work in retail, but now my primary job has become a substitute teacher. hopefully it can soon lead to something better.


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## ewerk (Sep 22, 2012)

It really depends on the career path you're looking to take. If you want to be a doctor, lawyer, teacher, etc than you definitely need to go to college and will need a graduate degree as well. But if you're looking to work in fashion, open your own business, become an actor or artist, etc than you most likely do not need to invest in a college education. It's important to find out first what you want to do with your life and then do some research and talk to as many people on this subject as possible to see if this is an investment you want to make.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

if your major in an industry that can actually get you a job: stay in college
if you major is in a useless liberal/fine arts degree: drop out or change your major


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## fihe (Aug 30, 2012)

lately I've been studying for the Praxis in chemistry so hopefully I can get certified to teach it. but I haven't taken a chemistry class since my junior year of high school, so it's gonna be difficult. I chose this subject because science teachers are needed in my area; there apparently aren't enough for the jobs available. meanwhile, there are way too many social studies teacher candidates.


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## ThatName (Nov 9, 2011)

a practical degree i believe is very worth it (example: business, early childhood education, medical technology)


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## moondog (Oct 3, 2012)

Having been an honors students in an inter-departmental program that dropped out a year before graduation I think this discussion is entirely situational. College is what you make of it because a degree in itself is worthless. Some degrees hold more economic value in that they are more vocational and have a greater potential for a return on your investment. But in the end it is going to depend largely on the individual in question.

I wanted to see the ivory tower of higher academics and escape the anti-intellectualism of small town southern USA. The years spent in college developed me both intellectually and emotionally due to my drive to face new challenges. I matured from an ignorant empty minded and under developed child into a well rounded young adult.

I unlearned the falsities that I had been poisoned with in elementary and secondary school and developed skills critical to a flourishing existence. I learned how to communicate through a variety of mediums passionately and logically. I was exposed to fields of knowledge I had never once considered - physics, linguistics, philosophy, formal logic, world history and much more. I made an effort to participate in academic colloquiums and events outside of the classroom from lectures on astronomy to philosophical debates and even presentations by the arts and music departments. I was able to compete for scholarships and positions to study abroad and see new cultures and languages first hand.

Yet I dropped out because I want to pursue new fields in other places. Do I have moments of regret when the only cash I can make is by lowly menial odd jobs? Absolutely. Do I regret the experiences that developed me into the person I am today? Absolutely not.

If you are dropping out because you feel your degree is 'worthless' without any other plans than you might as well accept defeat. The current race to define ourselves through degrees has created a poor environment on university grounds where so many are after the PhD in their name the markets can only continue to demand the minimal certifications be raised while schools allow for theirs to be lowered - allowing for tuition to skyrocket and student debt to increase. 

By the first or second year mark I think students need to seriously consider why they are getting a degree before they question its marketable worth. Then they can decide their course from their.


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