# Aspergers



## Pillow (Apr 17, 2011)

I have been wondering for a while now if one of my friends has Aspergers/Autism. I know there are a few people on PerC who have this, and people who know about it so I was wondering if anyone could help.

I was reading this article, and it lists the main symptoms of autism. I have re-listed them below, and underlined the parts which I think definitely apply to him, and _italicised_ the parts which I think may apply to him:

*Communication:*
have difficulty understanding gestures, facial expressions or tone of voice
have difficulty knowing when to start or end a conversation and choosing topics to talk about 
use complex words and phrases but may not fully understand what they mean
be very literal in what they say and can have difficulty understanding jokes, metaphor and sarcasm. _For example, a person with autism may be confused by the phrase 'That's cool' when people use it to say something is good._ [He sometimes gets a bit confused when I say something is 'the best ever', as I say it quite a lot. One time he said to me 'how can X be the best ever when you just said Y was the best ever?']

*Social interaction:*
struggle to make and maintain friendships
not understand the unwritten 'social rules' that most of us pick up without thinking. For example, they may stand too close to another person, or start an inappropriate topic of conversation
find other people unpredictable and confusing
become withdrawn and seem uninterested in other people, appearing almost aloof
behave in what may seem an inappropriate manner.

*Social imagination:*
_imagining alternative outcomes to situations and finding it hard to predict what will happen next_
understanding or interpreting other peoples thoughts, feelings or actions. The subtle messages that are put across by facial expression and body language are often missed
_having a limited range of imaginative activities, which can be pursued rigidly and repetitively, eg lining up toys or collecting and organising things related to his or her interest._ [he loves to spend a whole day weeding his garden, this is his relaxation time]

*Other Symptoms:*
_Sensory difficulties - For example, bright lights, loud noises, overpowering smells, particular food textures and the feeling of certain materials can be a cause of anxiety and pain for people with autism._
Love of routines - People with autism often prefer to order their day to a set pattern. For example, if they work set hours, an unexpected delay to their journey to or from work can make them anxious or upset.
_Special interests - People with autism may develop an intense, sometimes obsessive, interest in a hobby or collecting._ [He is a hoarder, I'm not sure if this counts? He refuses to throw out his school books from when he was 6]
_Mental health issues - severe anxiety or depression._ [He has been depressed recently but I'm not sure if this is due to personal circumstances or not]

What do you think?


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## Near Lawliet (Apr 21, 2011)

Pillow said:


> I have been wondering for a while now if one of my friends has Aspergers/Autism. I know there are a few people on PerC who have this, and people who know about it so I was wondering if anyone could help.
> 
> I was reading this article, and it lists the main symptoms of autism. I have re-listed them below, and underlined the parts which I think definitely apply to him, and _italicised_ the parts which I think may apply to him:
> 
> ...


 Its quite possible in my opinion but you should get this person tested to make sure. Best of luck.


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## marzipan01 (Jun 6, 2010)

Or possibly he is just an ISTP and you want to diagnose him as having something wrong with him. I would like to respond to your question with another question. What would happen if you believed him to have asperger's? What if you were absolutely certain that he had it? would it improve his life if he were diagnosed? I don't know if it's a real disease or not. It seems to me to be a way of explaining someone who is a very introverted and creative thinking type. Not a real disease, in my opinion.
Only helpful in explaining to judgers how to structure the learning environment for certain behavioral trends. It's like everyone who doesn't fit into the structure needs a disease in order for judgers to see how important it is to make special allowances for other people.
How do you know he might be depressed? This seems to be the reason you're bringing it up, perhaps?


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## Pillow (Apr 17, 2011)

marzipan01 said:


> Or possibly he is just an ISTP and you want to diagnose him as having something wrong with him. I would like to respond to your question with another question. What would happen if you believed him to have asperger's? What if you were absolutely certain that he had it? would it improve his life if he were diagnosed? I don't know if it's a real disease or not. It seems to me to be a way of explaining someone who is a very introverted and creative thinking type. Not a real disease, in my opinion.
> Only helpful in explaining to judgers how to structure the learning environment for certain behavioral trends. It's like everyone who doesn't fit into the structure needs a disease in order for judgers to see how important it is to make special allowances for other people.
> How do you know he might be depressed? This seems to be the reason you're bringing it up, perhaps?


Even if I was certain he was autistic, I'm not sure I'd say anything. I just thought that maybe if someone on here said 'oh yeah, sounds like he has autism, his life could be improved by xyz if you got him to get tested' then I might tell him. I know he is depressed, I just don't know if it is to do with his personal circumstances or whether it could be a symptom. I'm not bringing it up because of his depression, I've just been thinking about it for a while.

There's no need to be so hostile and typist, I was asking a simple question and I just wanted the opinions of people who had experience with this as I have none.


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## tuna (Jun 10, 2010)

marzipan01 said:


> Or possibly he is just an ISTP and you want to diagnose him as having something wrong with him. I would like to respond to your question with another question. What would happen if you believed him to have asperger's? What if you were absolutely certain that he had it? would it improve his life if he were diagnosed? I don't know if it's a real disease or not. It seems to me to be a way of explaining someone who is a very introverted and creative thinking type. Not a real disease, in my opinion.
> Only helpful in explaining to judgers how to structure the learning environment for certain behavioral trends. It's like everyone who doesn't fit into the structure needs a disease in order for judgers to see how important it is to make special allowances for other people.
> How do you know he might be depressed? This seems to be the reason you're bringing it up, perhaps?


1. Don't refer to Aspergers, or any other autism spectrum disorder, as a disease.

2. It exists. It's not just ~being creative and introverted tee hee~. You don't have it, you don't know anything about it, so don't be so flippant about it.

seriously, PerC, can we not regularly have fail in the Aspergers threads? because that would be wonderful.


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## marzipan01 (Jun 6, 2010)

tuna said:


> 1. Don't refer to Aspergers, or any other autism spectrum disorder, as a disease.
> 
> 2. It exists. It's not just ~being creative and introverted tee hee~. You don't have it, you don't know anything about it, so don't be so flippant about it.
> 
> seriously, PerC, can we not regularly have fail in the Aspergers threads? because that would be wonderful.


Question. Do you have it? Do you know someone who has it? Do you know someone who is constantly diagnosing you with a mental disorder for thinking differently? 
My INFJ mother accused me of having it not too long ago. 
What good does it do to speculate about people who are different as having syndromes? Isn't it possible that someone might try to diagnose a friend with a foreign personality type as having a syndrome of some kind?
As far as I know about the disorder there is still as of yet no treatment or physiological explanation for it. What I read was that treating symptoms was all that might be done.
And who gets to decide if someone has it? Who is the authority? Only the person with autism seems to be your suggestion. And if that is the case, how would that person know it to be true? they would have to not have autism to know for sure in which case he wouldn't have it.


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## Konan (Apr 20, 2011)

Asperger's isn't really that serious of a condition. It is said that many people with it can live happily still. I would be more worried about the depression though. You should make sure he is ok. Hope that helps.


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## Pillow (Apr 17, 2011)

marzipan01 said:


> Question. Do you have it? Do you know someone who has it? Do you know someone who is constantly diagnosing you with a mental disorder for thinking differently?
> My INFJ mother accused me of having it not too long ago.
> What good does it do to speculate about people who are different as having syndromes? Isn't it possible that someone might try to diagnose a friend with a foreign personality type as having a syndrome of some kind?
> As far as I know about the disorder there is still as of yet no treatment or physiological explanation for it. What I read was that treating symptoms was all that might be done.
> And who gets to decide if someone has it? Who is the authority? Only the person with autism seems to be your suggestion. And if that is the case, how would that person know it to be true? they would have to not have autism to know for sure in which case he wouldn't have it.


Just because you are bitter about something your J mum said to you doesn't mean that (a) you should tar all Js with the same brush and (b) you should hijack my thread - go start your own.


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## tuna (Jun 10, 2010)

marzipan01 said:


> Question. Do you have it? Do you know someone who has it? Do you know someone who is constantly diagnosing you with a mental disorder for thinking differently?
> My INFJ mother accused me of having it not too long ago.
> What good does it do to speculate about people who are different as having syndromes? Isn't it possible that someone might try to diagnose a friend with a foreign personality type as having a syndrome of some kind?
> As far as I know about the disorder there is still as of yet no treatment or physiological explanation for it. What I read was that treating symptoms was all that might be done.
> And who gets to decide if someone has it? Who is the authority? Only the person with autism seems to be your suggestion. And if that is the case, how would that person know it to be true? they would have to not have autism to know for sure in which case he wouldn't have it.


@marzipan01 - I PM'd my response to you to avoid derailing the thread any further.


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## devoid (Jan 3, 2011)

If your friend is autistic, nothing we say about it is going to help him whatsoever. He can see a doctor and get a professional diagnosis, but other than that you're going off the words of a bunch of strangers on the internet. Autism can be very difficult to diagnose since it goes on a spectrum from very mild to completely unintelligible. My little brother has one of the milder cases. When unmedicated he tends to have a complete loss of control when trying to express frustration, and will bang his head against things, hit people and scream to try to convey what he needs. However, some days he's totally fine. Some days he can talk to his friends and calm down and try to use words to express what he needs. Autism is clearly not something that is part of someone's personality, a routine or an illness like depression. My brother is an ESFJ. He loves people and loves talking to people, and tries to help others when he can without having to communicate much. I definitely think that the autism hinders his ability to help others, but definitely has no impact on the desire.


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## MuChApArAdOx (Jan 24, 2011)

Does his family feel the same way ? I know a few people who have a mild case of Asperger's, although they don't fit everything you wrote here. I wish i knew more about the subject. If he has family and it hasn't been an issue, maybe it would be best if you just let it go. I'm sure its not easy to watch someone you care about suffer with things that are so natural to us. Asperger's or autism isn't something i would wish for anyone.


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## Snakecharmer (Oct 26, 2010)

I know a bit about Aspergers. I have a friend who is a well-known author who has it, a friend's son has it, and I briefly dated a man who has it. 

It sounds like your friend may have it too, but I'm not sure a diagnosis is going to change anything. The depression, on the other hand...


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## marzipan01 (Jun 6, 2010)

Pillow said:


> Even if I was certain he was autistic, I'm not sure I'd say anything. I just thought that maybe if someone on here said 'oh yeah, sounds like he has autism, his life could be improved by xyz if you got him to get tested' then I might tell him. I know he is depressed, I just don't know if it is to do with his personal circumstances or whether it could be a symptom. I'm not bringing it up because of his depression, I've just been thinking about it for a while.
> 
> There's no need to be so hostile and typist, I was asking a simple question and I just wanted the opinions of people who had experience with this as I have none.


I apologize. I was being typist all around as I projected. I realize that you are probably just concerned for your friend's well-being otherwise you wouldn't have taken the time to go through all the possible symptoms and research to figure out the source of the problem.

Autism, schizoid personality disorder, schizophrenia, and ADD are all linked to the same genes that give us intuition. So I think it is possible that to an extent, intuitive types exhibit some thought processes similar to these conditions. 

From what I know, from my own research done after being accused of having the condition, is that Asperger's is on the autism spectrum. I suppose I'm curious myself how delivering him with a diagnosis of the disorder would actually improve his life. But I know that Asperger's symptoms can be ADD and other psychological symptoms for which treatment is available. Asperger's itself, I am not sure actually does except that with children schools have developed specialized ways to meet Asperger's student needs. I agree with Konan, depression is the element of the behavior to be addressed.
I think one of the possible reasons this topic can feel heated, for me at least, is because it is easier to slap names on people for thinking differently. Everyone does it, myself included.


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## Near Lawliet (Apr 21, 2011)

The described symptoms you provided; how severe are they? Do they disrupt his daily life in anyway? If not I doubt its anything to really concern yourself over.


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## Pillow (Apr 17, 2011)

MuChApArAdOx said:


> Does his family feel the same way ? I know a few people who have a mild case of Asperger's, although they don't fit everything you wrote here. I wish i knew more about the subject. If he has family and it hasn't been an issue, maybe it would be best if you just let it go. I'm sure its not easy to watch someone you care about suffer with things that are so natural to us. Asperger's or autism isn't something i would wish for anyone.


Well his kids think he's a bit weird, and he really hates his job, but apart from that he has no major problems. I wouldn't say anything to him unless I thought it would help him though. I don't want to make him feel like he has an 'illness' if it isn't a big problem for him. He is quite a bit older than me, so I guess if he does have it and he's gone so long undiagnosed it probably isn't affecting his life in a major way.

Do you think the people you know who have mild Aspergers gained anything from being diagnosed? I don't really see what he would gain to be honest, but then again I don't know anyone who's been diagnosed.


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## Pillow (Apr 17, 2011)

L. Lawliet said:


> The described symptoms you provided; how severe are they? Do they disrupt his daily life in anyway? If not I doubt its anything to really concern yourself over.


I don't think they've disrupted his life in a major way, but as he's gotten older he seems to be finding life harder. His wife is registered disabled and had to retire from work early and I think this is the main reason for his depression, but also he now has to do a lot more around the house and look after his kids more on his own, and other stuff, which I think is also feeding his depression. He does have a hard time communicating with his kids especially, and he can get distressed by this. His wife has been pushing him to get out more and make some friends, which I think is actually helping a bit (he now has a friend to go on bike rides with, which he loves). Plus he's in a dead end job which he hates - he has a good degree in French, but is working as a low-grade administrator. I guess I was mostly wondering if a diagnosis would help him or not. I'm not even sure he is autistic but when I go through the symptoms he does fit a lot of them. He also has a nephew who is showing some signs of mild autism, and I know autism can be partly genetic.


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## Near Lawliet (Apr 21, 2011)

Pillow said:


> I don't think they've disrupted his life in a major way, but as he's gotten older he seems to be finding life harder. His wife is registered disabled and had to retire from work early and I think this is the main reason for his depression, but also he now has to do a lot more around the house and look after his kids more on his own, and other stuff, which I think is also feeding his depression. He does have a hard time communicating with his kids especially, and he can get distressed by this. His wife has been pushing him to get out more and make some friends, which I think is actually helping a bit (he now has a friend to go on bike rides with, which he loves). Plus he's in a dead end job which he hates - he has a good degree in French, but is working as a low-grade administrator. I guess I was mostly wondering if a diagnosis would help him or not. I'm not even sure he is autistic but when I go through the symptoms he does fit a lot of them. He also has a nephew who is showing some signs of mild autism, and I know autism can be partly genetic.


 Based on what you just said; stop worrying. He'll be fine he just needs time. As for whether he has autism or asperger's I would still suggest for him and his nephew to get tested for it. I am guessing he has asperger's or at most a very mild version of autism. Only half of the autistic population actually gain the ability to go and complete school while the other half usually don't have an intelligence higher then a young child (3-5 years old). He completed college and got a degree but is working a low pay job so it makes me lean towards aspergers and if his wife is helping him then that is why I said not to worry and that if he is taking her advice and its working for him then all he needs is time. Best of luck.


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## MuChApArAdOx (Jan 24, 2011)

Pillow said:


> Well his kids think he's a bit weird, and he really hates his job, but apart from that he has no major problems. I wouldn't say anything to him unless I thought it would help him though. I don't want to make him feel like he has an 'illness' if it isn't a big problem for him. He is quite a bit older than me, so I guess if he does have it and he's gone so long undiagnosed it probably isn't affecting his life in a major way.
> 
> Do you think the people you know who have mild Aspergers gained anything from being diagnosed? I don't really see what he would gain to be honest, but then again I don't know anyone who's been diagnosed.


I found this link. It may answer some of your questions as you know him personally. Hope it helps. 

http://www.myautismsite.com/what-ar...osed-with-having-aspergers-syndrome-2436.html
This may or may not apply with Aspergers.

It could be depression also.

That's a good question. I don't know if there are any advantages to knowing. I did a bit of research, i couldn't find anything that really said " These are the advantages of knowing " , i may have missed it. I don't know anyone who has been either. Well i suppose being aware you function differently could be positive, buts who's to say they feel different, IDK


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## Pillow (Apr 17, 2011)

MuChApArAdOx said:


> I found this link. It may answer some of your questions as you know him personally. Hope it helps.
> 
> http://www.myautismsite.com/what-ar...osed-with-having-aspergers-syndrome-2436.html
> This may or may not apply with Aspergers.
> ...


Thanks, the link is very interesting. The depression is fairly recent, I think his 'symptoms' started before this. He does have a very good memory for strings of information too (especially number plates and things like that). Also, if you ask him what date a certain event in his life was on he can usually remember the exact date and what day of the week it was, and even remember what the weather was like and other details, although he has gotten a bit worse at this as he has gotten older.


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## Sosekopp (May 2, 2011)

About a year ago I read about Asperger's and for a while I thought I had it. Then I realized it was probably just a severe case of confirmation bias.


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