# INTP or INTJ?



## rayman9102 (Sep 11, 2010)

Yves said:


> From what you've written thus far, ISTP is the best fit.
> 
> Edit: By the way, ISTPs are systems-thinkers. The ones I know are very knowledgeable. Don't assume all intuitives are thoughtful and sensors are not. That's far from accurate.



I agree, i dont think intuitors are any better then sensors. As for my friend is IsTJ, because he is BUILDING his intuition, where they are only like 10% apart. But you can tell that he is S through how he approaches things. Highly intelligent, and not getting deep into things unless i bring them into the light, then he digs deep quickly, and we start connecting things. But i mostly bring them up. I would go, "Hey man i was thinking about this", and he would reply, "thats a nice way to see it, how about this". And it just gets better and better.


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## Yves (May 11, 2011)

Keep in mind that ISTPs are naturally inclined to critique systems in a way that ISTJs are not. TJ thinking is more "standard" and "linear," and TP thinking is "outside of the box." Are you sure you're not just picking up on the differences between ISTPs and ISTJs?

ISTPs prefer to solve real-world problems, and INTPs prefer to understand the world through abstraction and propose theoretical solutions.

Which do you think you relate better to?


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## rayman9102 (Sep 11, 2010)

Yves said:


> Keep in mind that ISTPs are naturally inclined to critique systems in a way that ISTJs are not. TJ thinking is more "standard" and "linear," and TP thinking is "outside of the box." Are you sure you're not just picking up on the differences between ISTPs and ISTJs?
> 
> ISTPs prefer to solve real-world problems, and INTPs prefer to understand the world through abstraction and propose theoretical solutions.
> 
> Which do you think you relate better to?



ISTP for sure then (in that sense), as for the abstraction is something i cant debate with because even when i enter that field it is still left with, "how do you know that is right?", we will never know anything, unless it is proven (it all depends what you feel comfortable with or a personal experience that shaped you). A fact is only a fact until it is unproven. Fact is we have to breathe air and eat food in order to survive until we have mechanical bodies which that doesnt require anymore. So i search for facts and break down theories into more factual solutions which we all can apply as beings. I dont sit there and disagree with it right away, but i can see connections VERY fast, and break it down to the point it can either contradict itself or it makes sense. 

The abstraction field is more 'fun' to me, but when i enter it, i try to see if there is a way i can break it down to a more understandable way where it will not be 'wrong' by comparing it to my experiences, others, and how life works. Because if i open it up people will try to see how it applys to life in a way that it is a 'fact' or it can be 'useful' so i have to prep my work before giving it to the open by seeing all the contradictions in it so i can build off of it. 

I remember reading a book on "the universe" or something like that, and the author would bore the shit out of me with his life stories, and i was like, ok what he is trying to imply? What can he PROVE or help my knowledge grow without it being all theory? To make it useful? you start reading it, and they give a lot of whys. When, why is a personal opinion which isnt useful at all. In that sense i could read a star wars book and apply that to something more then those type of ideas.

But that is for me personally. I can see why others read it, because it may open them up to build off of it, or help them with an experience or something. Authors create these ideas so people can build off of it or shut them down, but hey some of these ideas people bring up we dont even have the right math for it yet. So they would just be floating bubbles, which will eventually come 'true', just not in that time, but in that sense ANYONE can create these ideas and they will eventually be useful. 

Now i question, i get N on these test, how many others are actually sensors? 

Maybe i was getting Intuition mixed up with imagination and how to connect thoughts through it because my imagination is vast and i am highly future oriented where i can see myself. And i am not a handy man lmao i dont work on cars or do anything with my hands. If anything philosophy would be my major but it doesnt give ANY money, and i am not a teacher. Some of those questions on the test should be changed then into more of a sentence type of way. For example, "aloof, or concrete", it depends on the situation and the current thought of that moment on which one you will choose. And if you enjoy being an INTP or ESFJ, then you will remember that last time you chose some of those and are afraid to choose new ones because we all want to stay the same where in psychology they say, "we remind ourselves subconsciously everyday who we are in order to not change or lose track of ourselves". I may have go tsome of that wording wrong but it is in that sense.


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## Yves (May 11, 2011)

> Now i question, i get N on these test, how many others are actually sensors?


A lot! The tests are hugely error-prone.

If your natural inclination is to break theory down into principles that apply to real world situations, I would say you're most likely a sensor. Intuitives go through periods of observation but quickly convert fact into abstraction. They're far more comfortable holding onto generalizations than holding onto the details of a situation. 

By "mechanic," they mean a person who figures out how things work. An ISTP's strength is looking at a dysfunctional system and figuring out how to fix it.


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## justcritic (Mar 26, 2011)

You and I have a good number of things in common. I'm 90 percent sure you're more INTP than INTJ. I thought I was INFP during my first several times taking the test due to my T being similar to F, but after reflecting on my life, thought process, speech, and my relationships, I'm an INTP. So I suggest you do some personal reflection. I would say INTJs are more direct and won't question theories or yourself as much as INTPs do. And you question yourself a lot like me  Clarity, Truth, and Competence. Do you like those words? If so, you're even more like an INTP.


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## rayman9102 (Sep 11, 2010)

myexplodingcat said:


> You talking in Socionics terms or MBTI?


I know i saw you somewhere.. Your the female on my love debate.. To answer all those replies you have made that i couldnt answer during that time, i will do it now.. You said i was trying to dumb everyone down. Yes, dumb down on a level of understanding as you said, "to see eye to eye which many americans fail to see at the tear party?"

If i go out and put it right on the table that i know where this will go and how it will get off topic you will not try and sneak passed it because i already laid it out. Samething goes for me, so now you can see my intentions. I have every right or anybody, when posting a argument has to back up their argument kind of like Darwin did, or any man or women. So i will go against your views if it is the same as everybody else. The person i did agree with was the man that said, "it isnt like hollywood it is just a simple chemical that we experience and hollywood blows that out of proportion". That is what i agree on.. 

First thing is first, man's imagination. Then came questioning, "who what where when and why?". Then came these chemicals which we didnt know they was chemicals due to our knowledge back then, "i care for this person a lot why?" 

There are many reasons why all bunched up but used at different moments. Dopamine is what we feel when we are excited to see our "lover" or the sex we REALLY enjoy seeing. As far as seeing a 'friend' or mother, you dont view them in that sense. So indeed a person can fall in 'love' or experience dopamine when they meet someone due to lusting over their physical features. Is it wrong? Idk depends on the individual and what gets them by. 

We live ina world where 'love' is positive, and is SUPPOSE to be positive, so if anything negative goes on it people go, "NO NO NO NO! Mommy loves me" and all these thoughts start to apply to back that thought away. When has life ever been positive without mans imagination? You answer that.. Man's first religion was probably indeed, "LOVE" then came HATE, because that is what we hide ourselves from when we 'love' someone we hide these emotions and BLOW it out of proportion to see a 'better' painting then what it truly is. Thats where the reasons come in of why staying in a relationship. Love i agree is a chemical and thta is all. The thoughts on it and how it is suppose to be, is all imagination. Animals are deterministic.. Man is deterministic but has free will. That is what messes us up.. Love is a routine in animal society.. And in mans society is first imagination then a routine where you have to say, "i love you" in order to show respect or to let your partner know that you still 'care' about them. 

Love - God - Science - Chemicals


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## rayman9102 (Sep 11, 2010)

David Lee said:


> You and I have a good number of things in common. I'm 90 percent sure you're more INTP than INTJ. I thought I was INFP during my first several times taking the test due to my T being similar to F, but after reflecting on my life, thought process, speech, and my relationships, I'm an INTP. So I suggest you do some personal reflection. I would say INTJs are more direct and won't question theories or yourself as much as INTPs do. And you question yourself a lot like me  Clarity, Truth, and Competence. Do you like those words? If so, you're even more like an INTP.


Exactly that's what it is man! Truth people say they like my ideas (because they are true) but they want ANSWERS, like something is so scientifically complicated. and i go i cant give you answers man, even if i make it sound 'smart' isnt what i am giving you right now enough? What do you want to hear? What the hell is an answer? I can only give you what is true. I think the details come in after i see the big picture? I dont even know my brain just flows and connects quickly lmao.


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## rayman9102 (Sep 11, 2010)

Yves said:


> A lot! The tests are hugely error-prone.
> 
> If your natural inclination is to break theory down into principles that apply to real world situations, I would say you're most likely a sensor. Intuitives go through periods of observation but quickly convert fact into abstraction. They're far more comfortable holding onto generalizations than holding onto the details of an individual situation.
> 
> By "mechanic," they mean a person who figures out how things work. An ISTP's strength is looking at a dysfunctional system and figuring out how to fix it.


See now that we are digging deeper its hard to tell. I see the big genralization.. I see it.. I try to stick it, but then i question it and go.. " i cant do this because we are not all the same". So i try to break down BIG pictures because the facts and what is real for us is more easier i guess. And i try to apply facts to the big picture because thats what people go about with where i can break down the big picture and create it into my own idea where it is far more simple to grasp and not as complex as others make it to be. 

I'm not good at fixing things unless they are my own ideas? But i can see other ideas and dig deeper into them .


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## rayman9102 (Sep 11, 2010)

David Lee said:


> You and I have a good number of things in common. I'm 90 percent sure you're more INTP than INTJ. I thought I was INFP during my first several times taking the test due to my T being similar to F, but after reflecting on my life, thought process, speech, and my relationships, I'm an INTP. So I suggest you do some personal reflection. I would say INTJs are more direct and won't question theories or yourself as much as INTPs do. And you question yourself a lot like me  Clarity, Truth, and Competence. Do you like those words? If so, you're even more like an INTP.


Your relationships and thought process explain how you figured you was intp? Because the way i speak as a person is pretty confident in my knowledge and i move my hands. I walk around at home when i get into a DEEP thought like i walk around in circls or my house talking to myself out loud when nobody is home and i mean i connect some SERIOUS thoughts lmao. Like if i am talking to another person. I thought i was INFP as well but then i was like idk i seek logic in my emotions and why i do what i do and fairness, also im not into the lovey dovey touchy feely thing.


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## rayman9102 (Sep 11, 2010)

Yves said:


> A lot! The tests are hugely error-prone.
> 
> If your natural inclination is to break theory down into principles that apply to real world situations, I would say you're most likely a sensor. Intuitives go through periods of observation but quickly convert fact into abstraction. They're far more comfortable holding onto generalizations than holding onto the details of an individual situation.
> 
> By "mechanic," they mean a person who figures out how things work. An ISTP's strength is looking at a dysfunctional system and figuring out how to fix it.


A thought just flew into my mind.. Sensors start from the bottom up and intuitors start from the top to the bottom? Because if that sthe case i start with the big picture then i break it down but it happens FAST. I do indeed relate me as a WHOLE into it, but also theories and ideas on how to break down these ideas . i use to be a christian then i started digging deeper into my religion for some strange reason it just hit me like these questions on it, i was afraid at first then i just jumped into it and started to think deeper on why people do what they do and why i do what i do. And relating myself to them, but also others to them then theories and so on. Dating a girl getting her preganant at a young age of 17 really did a huge impact on my thoughts, i got an abortion and i wasnt ready. I found out she was cheating on me and so on (this didnt make me think love didnt exist or made me a grump prson i was calm about it) i left her alone and i ben single for 3 and a half years. But after we broke up i started to think deeper into things and experiment with new women on "getting to know" and this really helped my knowledge grow. I was very expressive of my knowledge when it came to people i knew well or teachers i felt comfortable with. 

They appreciated it but now that i look back at it im like, wow that is old and was shitty lmao, but hey it makes me who i am now. I became highly interested in Zietgiest and ufos (which i always was) but i had TIME now to really think about me and people and everything. What do i want, who am i? What is my purpose? Do i have a purpose or do i create one (do we humans create one)? It just lead one to another. so what first started was religion. "If god made the devil and he knew the devil would turn on him then wouldnt it be more of a plan?" Then it really started to hit me. Lmao, i'm kind of still the same guy just the way i see things the feeling of things the moments that i use to cherish i am more conscious and aware of where those experiences may not be there anymore.

I was always a fair guy and open towards others thoughts and ideas. Then i would think about them when i wasnt dating a girl because that was a distraction. But when i had time to think of my actions and why i did what i did and my past and the present and relate them to philosophy i startd to see why EVERYONE does it lol. 

I sometimes think consciousness is actually negative rather then positive. When we are aware of things we tend to lose the 'magical' feeling of it, that our imagination gives. Like a child watching disney movies, and they think its real until they get older and 'understand', or become conscious of it. Unless we grow our consciousness (intuition?) from our imagination to understand why we do what we do. Then go back to imagination but with a conscious route? I just thought of this while typing lol. 

Imagination: To be open and accepting to feel experiences on a different level

Conscious: TO be aware of your actions 

Consciousness: To be aware of your actions and why you do what you do or why things are the way they are (deeper awareness) but the lack of imagination

Imaginative Consciousness: To be aware of your actions and others, and to see the broader view of life but also to be open of yourself to accept yourself in a sense of being comfortable with your mask off. To also enjoy the wonders of your imagination without a care in the world

Let's see what you guys think.. .


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## rayman9102 (Sep 11, 2010)

Mom: INFJ - Cleans my room, makes me food, is open to talk to, very cool funny person, and washes my clothes (im 20 but im fine with all this lol)

Dad: ESFP - Lazy ass bum, gts drunk, has a lot of negative problems in life, just completely negative. Always wants to impress the family. Always talking about his past and how he didn thave a dad. I try to listen to him but he just crawls under my skin. 

Me IxTP now according to this information. Introverted from my mom, T from my own character they say "here comes brains", "oh he is thinking again look at that serious face" lmao. P comes from dad, i just do things as i go, and i do not have a routine. I am future oriented which i think this comes from Mom being N. I do look at my past but i dont hold onto it much i just learn from it quickly. Sometime si look and go "UH WHY DID I DO THAT!" and get the shivers and go well i was young and the way i approached the ladies was horrible.. Jeez.. Lmao

Either INTP or ISTP.. They both connect fast. I agree with Fi being my feeling because i keep my feelings to myself. I dont like hugs or kisses or anything like that. Definitely ITP now. Reason for INTJ was because the feeling thing, and i have future DREAMS that i MUST accomplish i have to. Current goals i get them done but in a sloppy form.


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## JLL (May 5, 2011)

@rayman9102 From your first few posts, I can say we're pretty much alike, about 80% 
Funny to meet someone who's really similar to yourself.

As for INTP vs INTJ, I consider myself INTJ at work, INTP everywhere else...


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## rayman9102 (Sep 11, 2010)

JLL said:


> @rayman9102 From your first few posts, I can say we're pretty much alike, about 80%
> Funny to meet someone who's really similar to yourself.
> 
> As for INTP vs INTJ, I consider myself INTJ at work, INTP everywhere else...


Samething with me man! Lmao, intj attitude at home but lazy as hell. Intp everywhere else. A littl bit more organized at work


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## rayman9102 (Sep 11, 2010)

JLL said:


> @rayman9102 From your first few posts, I can say we're pretty much alike, about 80%
> Funny to meet someone who's really similar to yourself.
> 
> As for INTP vs INTJ, I consider myself INTJ at work, INTP everywhere else...


Take this test let me know what you get man

http://similarminds.com/cgi-bin/career5.pl

Everyone take it and let me know your results.


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## myexplodingcat (Feb 6, 2011)

rayman9102 said:


> I know i saw you somewhere.. Your the female on my love debate.. To answer all those replies you have made that i couldnt answer during that time, i will do it now.. You said i was trying to dumb everyone down. Yes, dumb down on a level of understanding as you said, "to see eye to eye which many americans fail to see at the tear party?"
> 
> If i go out and put it right on the table that i know where this will go and how it will get off topic you will not try and sneak passed it because i already laid it out. Samething goes for me, so now you can see my intentions. I have every right or anybody, when posting a argument has to back up their argument kind of like Darwin did, or any man or women. So i will go against your views if it is the same as everybody else. The person i did agree with was the man that said, "it isnt like hollywood it is just a simple chemical that we experience and hollywood blows that out of proportion". That is what i agree on..
> 
> ...


Dude, I'm not even going to bother arguing with you. Save it for your thread. Or, hey, go find one of the jillion other threads just like yours that were shot down equally fast. I don't need to hear about your teenage angst, regardless of whether or not you are still a teenager. If you aren't still teenage, I suggest you catch up with the rest of your age group. Please outlet this emotion through something other than arguing with me. No personal offense to you, but INTPs don't do well trying to sympathize with this kind of thing.

And if you're about to tell me that I'm totally off track, that you're doing something "scientific" or making a discovery to further our knowledge... you wouldn't feel the need to press us on that beyond your dedicated thread if you weren't feeling something. My guess is that at this moment, you're feeling either a) competitive, b) inferior, c) angry at someone, or d) really depressed. Or you could just be an INTJ in a dom-tert loop, working off of Fi and Ni.

Now, I'm willing to help you find your type, as this is the thread that is intended to achieve that purpose. My guess is that you are (as I said) an INTJ in a dom-tert loop. Try this.



> ISFP/INTJ: Fi/Ni or Ni/Fi--Paranoid Personality Disorder. These types are your typical conspiracy theorists; they cling deeply to their personal values and can find a conspiracy to assault or attack those values everywhere they look. Chronically distrustful of others' intentions for no legitimate reason, these types are certain they are the only ones who really know "the truth." The inferior function, Te or Se, can sometimes lead to an unconscious desire to attract the attention of or lead/organize others in efforts to expose the nefarious conspiracies they invariably see everywhere. If Te/Se were doing its job, these types would be able to look around them and observe empirical evidence that most of their theories are probably not reflected in reality, but as they rely almost entirely on internal validation, Ni will go to any lengths to justify Fi's emotion-based suspicions. (I mentioned Dale Gribble from King of the Hill in a previous article--he's a perfect example.) There's also this guy Victor on typologycentral who's such a perfect example of this it's absolutely ridiculous.


I do not intend to insult you, only to help. If you are in a dom-tert loop, it isn't necessary to tell us and you can abandon this thread altogether. What you CAN do, however, is to try and develop your Te (or your Se, if you decide you're ISFP instead, but I think you're more INTJ). If you're INTJ, start making goals and making an effort to achieve them. If you're ISFP, the advice is to try and learn a new skill, one that involves activity. It doesn't have to be a sport, just something that you learn by getting a feel for it--like, say, yo-yoing or cooking.

Since you seem to be stuck between INTJ and ISTP (which is not that far from ISFP), I would suggest that this is a definite possibility. From here on out, I am likely to leave or ignore this thread, as I'm certain you're going to have an extensive rant about my post. Don't be surprised if I don't reply.


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## rayman9102 (Sep 11, 2010)

myexplodingcat said:


> Dude, I'm not even going to bother arguing with you. Save it for your thread. Or, hey, go find one of the jillion other threads just like yours that were shot down equally fast. I don't need to hear about your teenage angst, regardless of whether or not you are still a teenager. If you aren't still teenage, I suggest you catch up with the rest of your age group. Please outlet this emotion through something other than arguing with me. No personal offense to you, but INTPs don't do well trying to sympathize with this kind of thing.
> 
> And if you're about to tell me that I'm totally off track, that you're doing something "scientific" or making a discovery to further our knowledge... you wouldn't feel the need to press us on that beyond your dedicated thread if you weren't feeling something. My guess is that at this moment, you're feeling either a) competitive, b) inferior, c) angry at someone, or d) really depressed. Or you could just be an INTJ in a dom-tert loop, working off of Fi and Ni.
> 
> ...



BUm bum bummmmm.. Lol, what ever helps you get by miss lady. But even if it is competative you are still labeling me again through a response and not who i am by my description HAHA.. Also, here is the thing.. Teenagers or not, mentality isnt achieved through ones age.. It is achieved through pausing and reflecting on ones own experiences, or others. Gaining knowledge is achieved through the same. Now dont get me wrong... You still go around it, you may be offended because of something more deep to it which i cannot debate with. Reason i debate with the 'love' is because it is something that society blows out of proportion and needs to be reviewed. Also it is very interesting and actually is pretty deep if you get into it. It's like a person choosing a religion because a love one has passed away to keep them in emotional support. WHICH i can agree.. And i have no right to sit here and try to change that.. But to understand why 'love' is what it is.. Now lol that is my argument. Why wouldnt a INTP question love?

You seem to go around my questions and views. If you cant debate it then it is fine.. Right now i am not 'in love' so i can see the flaws in it others cant. Remember, we are beings.. There are times where we may FEEL extroverted.. If you see a man jumping up and down with a group of friends making loud jokes, and talking about w.e. He could be INTP, but he is just around people he is comfortable with and for that moment his extroverted side came into existence. Then one will say, "he must be a extrovert. which we will never know unless we see them everyday and all their sides or a majority of their sides.

I can also agree that i am paranoid.. I am lazy and i have future goals.. But as for the day i dont really organize it.. I finish my task but in a sloppy manner. I am not organized what so ever. So i dont know.. Unless im an unorganized INTJ which my J is low for, and so i relate to a lot of Ps? But my whole love thing is pretty much backed up.. Lmao, so idk about that one. That is probably the only thought or idea that i am confident about. As for the others i am still working on contradiction in order for them to be played into my views and my views cannot be wrong because i have to think of how others will attack them in order to shape them. Not to be wrong in a sense of cockiness. But not to be wrong so that when i present them, people have no choice but to agree. Why should i present an idea that one cannot agree? Or has contradiction? Which it kills itself. That would be foolish of me, personally.


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## rayman9102 (Sep 11, 2010)

Ok i just found it, wow.. lmao!

INTj or INTp?


"Let's take a look at INTj's main function - introverted thinking (). That's right and this is not a mistake, in Socionics the functions are ordered differently for introvert types. So, INTjs are mainly interested in accumulating an understanding. They want to know why and what causes things happen the way they happen. They want to know and see the logic behind everything. If "it" does not contradict logic then "it" is right, otherwise "it" is wrong. INTps on the other hand seem to be logical too as their second strong function is extrovertedthinking (). However, if for INTjs it is about gaining understanding, for INTps it is about exercising their knowledge, and therefore they mostly concern themselves with known facts. Moreover, INTj's logic is their area of confidence and conservatism. This makes their logic fundamental, meaning once the rules are established, they can be applied anywhere. INTps logic is their area of creativity. This makes their logic circumstantial and unpredictable - the rules apply here but may not apply there."

You guys will have to read the rest. If it fits you.. This one fits INTj for me..

So far INT



Perceiving types
act impulsively following the situation: no
can start many things at once without finishing them properly: no
prefer to have freedom from obligations: yes
are curious and like a fresh look at things: yes
work productivity depends on their mood: yes
often act without any preparation: no

Judging types
do not like to leave unanswered questions: yes
plan work ahead and tend to finish it: no (plan thoughts or ideas then yes)
do not like to change their decisions: yes
have relatively stable workability: no


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## myexplodingcat (Feb 6, 2011)

rayman9102 said:


> If you cant debate it then it is fine..


Nah, just too lazy to. Save your dignity.


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## Bast (Mar 23, 2011)

I agree with @myexplodingcat, INTJ in a dom-tert loop.


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

> I agree with @_myexplodingcat_ , INTJ in a dom-tert loop.


I was thinking of myself as having one of those

But it just seems as I'm an ordinary INTJ with things doing around me that causes my F to go wild.
But back on topic, I think you're an INTP.



> You guys will have to read the rest. If it fits you.. This one fits INTj for me..
> 
> So far INT
> 
> ...


Those doesn't work!
They are made for someone observing you, I think I did the same thing and got classified as ESTP... that's definitely not correct


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## JLL (May 5, 2011)

rayman9102 said:


> Take this test let me know what you get man
> 
> http://similarminds.com/cgi-bin/career5.pl
> 
> Everyone take it and let me know your results.


Here is the actual link: Career Test, Free Career Test and Personality Profiler

As for the results:


> Extroversion 26%
> Emotional Stability 70%
> Orderliness	40%
> Altruism 46%
> ...


Not sure how it relates to the MBTI but Architect -> INTP ? Looks ok


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## rayman9102 (Sep 11, 2010)

Acerbusvenator said:


> I was thinking of myself as having one of those
> 
> But it just seems as I'm an ordinary INTJ with things doing around me that causes my F to go wild.
> But back on topic, I think you're an INTP.
> ...


ROFL I tried bro.. I been searching to try to find ways to see what Judging types fit me and this Perceiving type thing.. Idk what so ever.. I can tell you one thing, I WORK WITH AN INTJ.. Dude.. Talk about organized, sarcasm and this inferior attitude or serious ass ego. It's cool but funny as hell. 

This dude just throws debates up with me all the time.. But through sarcasm.. I pretty much cant say he is wrong because he doesnt accept it. Unless i explain myself. Now he tells me to stop explaining myself but i have to because i know there are deeper meanings to things then what we really see. So i try to get to the root of the shit so we see eye to eye, and then he will agree. Not only that, but he only agrees if i catch him in contradiction. And when i am about to catch him with something he already sees where i am going with this (most of the time) and will correct himself right then and there before i do it. So i just point at him with a smirk, and then he goes, "you cant say it.. I already corrected myself so i am safe"

If i bring up a belief, he will disagree even if it makes sense.. He doesnt like agreeing.. He wants to beat me in debates, it's always 50/50. 


He is very good at bringing quick comebacks man. And talk about a ladies man.. Idk how this guy does it. How the fuck do you have 5 girlfriends with each one having a different personality so when you feel a certain way at a moment you see that one. He organizes this shit like wtf..


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

The difference between INTJ and INTP is smal, but remember. It's what you prefer.
But I could probably say, that since you seem to think that he's over organizing things, then you're probably P.
From what I've heard, then Ps would rather read a book or watch a tv-show backwards. At least that's what my INTP friend told me when I talked about a tv-shows.

And about the guy at your work, are you sure he's an INTJ?
He seems to just try to argue with you.
If I would class him after your personality, then he'd probably be an ESFJ.
Relations between Psychological ("personality") Types


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## rayman9102 (Sep 11, 2010)

Well as far as reading a book goes. I skip through it until something catches my eye.. The story life lines and stuff like that bore the shit out of me.. That would be something if he is an esfj.. He isnt into details as much as i am.. Extroverted? If he is then he sure n the hell is a quiet one. As far as arguments its more of a debate to boost his ego he says. He definitely thinks his problems through and feelings. And very future oriented. Always thinks about the future but in a sense of preparing for it. I do the same but i think this is a NT thing or INT thing.. The j and p is hard to grasp.. It's really the functions. The more he talks the faster he connects.. Me i pause and think but sometimes i get back at him later. N he will go, "that debate was like 10 mins ago". I just tell him, "hey man i was thinking, what if its this way and not that way?" and he goes.. "It's my opinion i dont care if u judge me, so be it" as if he isnt willing to open his opinions up.. As for they are facts and that it. 

The other day for example i brung up how i want a smart fortwo car to save gas, and i said, "man if i wanted to i could put a hyabusa engine in there (have somebody do it), to make it fast since u guys always talk about fast cars." and he replies.. "Actually it wouldnt beat a ferrari." And i go.. "dude it's been proven yes it can" he goes, "no it cant, with the speed that it goes i would think the car would not handle very well and may flip"

So i go, "bro, it can.. Its on the internet" it took awhile then another guy agreed that it can then he goes.. "hrmm, i would of thought it couldnt" 

Then i told him, "i agree i dont think it would if it was going around on a track but it can in a drag race, but who knows it might it might not" 

My replies to him is more.. "it might, it could be, how do you know? you dont know that bro, what if its this way?" and his replies are, "I know, its my opinion and i dont care (bust out laughing), No it isnt that, it is this" 

Especially the women part.. Talk about a way of seeing things.. HE would go, "look man, you have to approach the ladies like this, because they see it as this, and then you do this, and then that" but then i reply,

"Didnt you tell me that you dont like being rejected? So why are you telling me how to go about things if i dont like being rejected, when you dont even do those things off back. Sure it is easy if i think i see signs but how do i know if she is really giving me a sign and not just being nice?"

He does a lot of research at home. He is jamaican so he is organized he said his mom is a teacher and his dad is a farmer. He was raised where he had to have quick comebacks with his mom and she was practically psychic he said.. Like she knew what he was doing so he had to think harder and be quicker for the future. This is why i think he is INTJ.. How about this for example. A man the other day was backing up (we are cart pushers) and he goes and talks to the man and says in an exciting voice, "hold on sir we are going to move these out your way", and the guy looks at us and goes, "Move this fuckin shit already" ROFL! I busted out laughing and then the INTJ guy smiled and then caught a serious face and was like. "You know what, since he wants to be that way we are going to leave the carts right here until i finish, there is no need for that tone of disrespect, he will learn"

So then after it was over i started laughing because it seemed like a positive outcome and it went completely randomly negative, so i found it funny, and he laughed about it later. 

And i brung the topic back up and said, "you could of handled it better man"

And he goes, "what would have you done? You would have move the carts huh?"

So i reply, "Well yes one because he is a customer and two to avoid confrontation and to prolong the situation where it could of be handled where he would have been wrong to begin with, but since u went back at him it makes u both look wrong. BAsically he poked you and you poked him back but harder. So it doesnt resolve anything." 

Then he replies, "No he needed to learn, that attitude was disrespectful" Then he made a face like thinking about what i said, and i go, " i see you think man u know what i am talking about u just dont want to admit it" then he starts laughing and goes, "you dont know what i am thinking about, now your doing false judgments" So im like aww fuck here we go.. Lol and i just stopped..


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## Jabberbroccoli (Mar 19, 2011)

" When i talk to people i am comfortable with, my knowledge flows because i already thought about it and prepped myself just in case someone will ask me about that question." -NTJ

" I have big future goals where i do want to be wealthy and i have my life planned out, but as i go along the journey i dont care what happens just as long as the goals come true, i just watch myself but i am open." -NTJ

" I'm very paranoid" -INTT(INTIINTINTINITNITNITNINTJ

" I can break down complex thoughts or theories so people can understand them easily." -NTJ


INTJ.


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## Jabberbroccoli (Mar 19, 2011)

Additionally, do you work in systems, and are you very organized. That's J.
If opposite, than P.

This is mostly true.


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## rayman9102 (Sep 11, 2010)

Jabberbroccoli said:


> Additionally, do you work in systems, and are you very organized. That's J.
> If opposite, than P.
> 
> This is mostly true.


Good question.. I think inside my mind for the intangibles i am INTJ.. But for the physical world i am INTP.. If that makes sense.. Lol thats why i dont know how to classify myself. My room is a mess, and i kick my shoes off and place them anywhere. I use to lose my keys a lot and i always do things last minute. But when i first start school or work i am excellent until i been there for around 2-3 months then i get real sloppy. Which i am scared of.. I am lazy as hell with the physicals..

Is it possible to have a low Ne? 

I pretty much use to be INTJ.. I always scored INTJ and the description fitted me. Then i met this one dude which was a NP i think? Idk the rest i know he was extraverted and was a feeler. Maybe ENFP or ESFP.. He was quite intelligent in how people go about things and ways. He was basically majoring in psychology. And said i came on too strong to this girl i liked, and i would get pissed if we set up a date and she pretty much turned it down last minute. So when she offered me to go somewhere i said "no thank you". To let her know i dont play those type of games. He use to try to figure me out and i would be like, "this is how i see life and that is it". I didnt like hearing his opinions about things back then, i was more pleased with my own thoughts and how to go about things. Where when i was 'wrong' it would be like, "what did i miss!? How could i be wrong?" 

So basically i was more of a philosopher and he was the psychologist. Where i wanted to figure them out by myself but he would give me answers. Then i remembered everything he told me and took psychology in high school. I didnt care about the vocabulary, the teacher said, "You remember all the weird things i tell you but you dont remember the vocabulary words or the important stuff, you just remember the meanings of things and how to go about them". So i know why people do what they do and stuff. I combined philosophy with psychology, then i did a lot of research into physics while i was gaining a philosophical view of the world. So psychology really helped. 

Then he would hit me with psychology. And to be honest this opened me up way more. I was always lazy with the physicals its just inside my mind its a different world. 

I can tell you one thing about intuitives.. They research knowledge and adapt quickly to it and understand abstractions quickly.. And are bored with following details to the big picture. It is more of big picture then details to explain it. I think school helped me with this one. I still give the big picture but i break the details down quickly so they dont ask lol. Basically preparing myself like i said. 

I didnt like changing my views on things and to this day i dont.. I get this held back feeling inside me, and when i do i feel uncomfortable even when it's 'right' and i am 'wrong'. So now who i am before i learn something i would ask, "if i am wrong correct me" before saying, "its this its that" what i use to do before, even when i didnt know. I would have to GIVE an ANSWER lmao. So the guy really helped me open up. And it really made me question things more. And for this reason i started getting low J - low P on test.. But it helps out a lot to teach others when they ask a question. Because my answers are more broad now and if they are answers then you cannot disprove them because of all the broad research i did or breaking it down to its root. I was always messy though and unorganized. Bookbag would be cluttered and i couldnt find a thing lol. 

I could be INTP with INTJ thoughts

I am into lamborghinis, a future wealthy home, stabled family, and living freely. Surfing, jet skiing, sky diving, playing video games.. Basically no stress no worries.. So i am currently working to proceed that future, because i was raised without responsibilities by my parents so i see no point in them.

But if it wasnt for 'knowledge' and thinking deeply into things after i broke up with my ex, i wouldnt know how to accomplish the 'good life' or have that motivation or drive. Because i settled for what i had.. And now i am not.. I learn quickly off my experiences. It takes one wrong for me to learn what is right.. 

I dont party, i dont drink, i dont smoke. I workout, im into my health somewhat, i dont keep a tab on how i do i just get big muscles just by going along with it. I pretty much go to work, home, play my game, go to the gym, then repeat it.. I have to get out the house sometimes though to get my mind away. 

Before i use to be into knowledge like crazy.. Go tot he bookstore, read up on all kinds of things. The universe, life, and so on.. Then i was like, now that i know what i know how can i apply it to my life and get me by? What do people want? What can i teach them? People will not listen to me if i dont set an example bad enough im only 20.. They would look down at me.. I CANNOT Fail.. I fear failure to the fullest.. So i have to succeed and get this money but in what career? Do i stay where i am at now and just build then invest? Or do i go to college? 

I am currently signing up for college. So we will see how this goes.. In life i cannot accept math problems, or science until i understand it fully and why it is that way.. I must know why..

So some vocabulary words that fit me:

Wise
Intellectual
To be awed by my knowledge "WOW your smart"
To understand why things they way they are
To beat life and to make it uncomplicated
Lazy
Independent in the outside world, dependent in my house living with my family
Wealthy
The top being
Perfection or close to it
Confidence
Paranoia 
Insecure
Open minded
Cool, calm, collective
Unorganized with the physicals
Successful
Logical
Shy
Curious
Respectful
Quiet
Mysterious
Competitive 
Power (not power over others but knowledge power, like "yea dont under estimate me"
Romantic
Dreamer
Sarcastic
Charming

Also in order to save money, i set my card on a 110 dollar limit every 2 weeks (because i get paid) so i only spend 220 dollars a month and save the rest. I will not buy something or spend money if i do not reach my goal.


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## rayman9102 (Sep 11, 2010)

I also have to be clean and look good everywhere i go.. I'm only organized with things that do not require too much physical energy. Like the computer and shit lol.


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## Jabberbroccoli (Mar 19, 2011)

INTP. You sound like you used to be NTJ (when younger), just as I used to be NFP.

Kewl.


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## rayman9102 (Sep 11, 2010)

Jabberbroccoli said:


> INTP. You sound like you used to be NTJ (when younger), just as I used to be NFP.
> 
> Kewl.


I didnt know the functions can change i thought they only build but that is something to know about. A sensor can become an intuitive? And what will happen to their functions? Will they all switch or do they only build intuition?


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## Dental Floss Tycoon (Apr 4, 2011)




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## rayman9102 (Sep 11, 2010)

Pseudonimum said:


>


ROFL, you think the P can make one more childish then the Js? I notice every P person i met is sloppy and childish. I could be trying to generalize which it may come to a failure.


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## CarenRose (Aug 18, 2010)

I'll offer my two cents here.

My dad is an INTP and I am an INTJ. Here's what I did when I was learning about functions and contrasting what I use vs what he uses.

A lot of these questions and stuff are from examples taken from various articles around, especially ones here. So if you've read them and "know the right answer" it might screw this up a bit.

So this is what I asked my dad ...
1) Lets say you want to learn how to play a certain song on an instrument that you've never learned how to play. Do you take the time to learn how to play the instrument as a whole, learning the theory/technique/whatever behind it, so that you *understand* the instrument? Or do you learn only what is necessary to play the song you want to learn? (You may decide to learn other songs if you find the instrument enjoyable afterwards.)
2) Do you "gather knowledge" for a specific purpose (such as learning to do something, or as research for a story, etc) or do you gather knowledge just because you need knowledge to understand things?

3) Do you ever, or often, find yourself knowing how things will turn out, or seeing that things "won't end well" or being able to say in a situation "I knew it would go this way?" Or do you instead tend to see things as being much more open to many influences that you would not ever be able to predict so far into the future?
4) Considering these two ideas/pictures:
a: given a certain amount of information about a situation, you can see many different ways that it could go from here, but you can't see far down the "path" of any one ... or
b: given a certain amount of information about a situation, you can see one or two different possiblities, all the way to the end, but can't necessarily imagine (or care about) all the little insignificant other paths it just might go down.

I've found the similarities between Ni and Ne not so easily defined when you're comparing personal experience to personal experience, except in this area. This is the only one where dad *wouldn't* say "Yeah, I do that TOO" about both Ne and Ni.


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## rayman9102 (Sep 11, 2010)

CarenRose said:


> I'll offer my two cents here.
> 
> My dad is an INTP and I am an INTJ. Here's what I did when I was learning about functions and contrasting what I use vs what he uses.
> 
> ...


1. I only want to play an instrument for the song, i dont care about its meaning.

2. I gather knowledge for a specific purpose.. Whether I want to learn about it or someone 'important' tells me to do the project. On personal levels i only want to understand people and why they do what they do. To see if i can answer life in a variety of ways. I cant just base things off my past experiences and my outlook. So i have to gather knowledge of all these beings, religions, philosophies, theories, and basically how life goes, and put my own belief into it, and make it a strong one. 

3. I see things on how they would turn out and so i plan for them. The only one i plan for and i fail on is relationships.. Women always get me.. My logic starts to fade, and some how it fails between me n the girl. Either she moves, or i get too caught up in trying to work things out. I always see a 'bright' future between me n her (who ever the female is) and how we can shape things if we both work together.. But it never happens that way lol. 

I have these weird instincts where it goes, "what if" and then the shit happens out the blue like it's weird. "What if this person calls me", it is a random thought and then the person calls. Or something weird. So planning for things i am really good at, but i only structure things i am interested in. That is my far away goals. I am not orderly when it comes to the physical world such as NEAT. So idk about that part. I think thats why i think i am a P.. I am open to some things but when i do try to open my views up i feel this barrier of not wanting to but i do so. I am not a NEAT person.. I am sloppy and unorganized.


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## rayman9102 (Sep 11, 2010)

I also have an urge to be adventurous. I want to get agressive inline skates and learn how to do that.. I bought a guitar but i dont play it due to my laziness, i want to surf (when i achieve my financial future), snow board, and get me a motorcycle with a nice upper middle class house and a lamborghini. I'm just waiting for this big financial plan to fold out and then i can enjoy life and its wonders.. Learn meditation and get back into martial arts.


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## CarenRose (Aug 18, 2010)

rayman9102 said:


> 1. I only want to play an instrument for the song, i dont care about its meaning.
> 
> 2. I gather knowledge for a specific purpose.. Whether I want to learn about it or someone 'important' tells me to do the project. On personal levels i only want to understand people and why they do what they do. To see if i can answer life in a variety of ways. I cant just base things off my past experiences and my outlook. So i have to gather knowledge of all these beings, religions, philosophies, theories, and basically how life goes, and put my own belief into it, and make it a strong one.
> 
> ...


Based on these answers, you are an INTJ. You've chosen Te over Ti, Ni over Ne.

Ti (the dominant function for an INTP) wants basically to fit information into its internal network of facts/information. It's concerned with understanding things in entirety, and INTPs often learn stuff "just to learn it."
Te (the aux function for an INTJ) on the other hand, is the one that will learn only what is necessary for achieving its goals. Sometimes, the goal may be just to learn interesting information about a subject, in which case it may appear like you're trying to learn everything possible about a subject just 'cuz. Ti tends to see this approach as being somewhat shallow.

As for Ni vs. Ne, I only was getting at one difference between the two. Ne sees multiple possibilities that could unfold, Ni sees one possibility at a time all the way to where it would end.



rayman9102 said:


> I am not orderly when it comes to the physical world such as NEAT. So idk about that part. I think thats why i think i am a P.. I am open to some things but when i do try to open my views up i feel this barrier of not wanting to but i do so. I am not a NEAT person.. I am sloppy and unorganized.


J's do not _have_ to be tidy. I, for one, have a very messy disorganized apartment. For a while I wondered if that had to make me a P ... but that alone is not enough. You really have to base J/P on the functions, not on how neat/sloppy you are.




rayman9102 said:


> I also have an urge to be adventurous. I want to get agressive inline skates and learn how to do that.. I bought a guitar but i dont play it due to my laziness, i want to surf (when i achieve my financial future), snow board, and get me a motorcycle with a nice upper middle class house and a lamborghini. I'm just waiting for this big financial plan to fold out and then i can enjoy life and its wonders.. Learn meditation and get back into martial arts.


Hmm ... I do this too, but for me I don't think it's related to type. I suspect that I'm mildly bipolar ... there are times when I'm up 'til 4 am buying stuff I'll never use online, planning to build things (sewing projects, indoor fountains, dollhouse, to name a few), and there's this random urge to be adventurous, like you said.

I'm not saying this means *you're* bipolar by the way ...


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## rayman9102 (Sep 11, 2010)

CarenRose said:


> Based on these answers, you are an INTJ. You've chosen Te over Ti, Ni over Ne.
> 
> Ti (the dominant function for an INTP) wants basically to fit information into its internal network of facts/information. It's concerned with understanding things in entirety, and INTPs often learn stuff "just to learn it."
> Te (the aux function for an INTJ) on the other hand, is the one that will learn only what is necessary for achieving its goals. Sometimes, the goal may be just to learn interesting information about a subject, in which case it may appear like you're trying to learn everything possible about a subject just 'cuz. Ti tends to see this approach as being somewhat shallow.
> ...


Wow this was very helpful.. I appreciate it a lot, thats why i thought i was a P, but now i see it.


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## Jabberbroccoli (Mar 19, 2011)

From that information I would say borderline J/P >.>


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## Jabberbroccoli (Mar 19, 2011)

Sorry, P/J... J/p makes me thing of banks.


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## Wasp (Apr 29, 2011)

Vilen said:


> I think you defintely sound more like an INTP..


You were right. I've since re-tested myself, and as you can see on my results (in my signature) i'd can say i've really moved from borderline J/P (some years ago) to undoubtedly P (this month). I am proud to say I'm definitely an INTP. Deep down i always knew


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