# Countries with NF ideals/populations



## tangential (Aug 15, 2010)

I heard that France is one. Any others?


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## xezene (Aug 7, 2010)

Good question! I would venture to say that many of the traditional Native American cultures of ages past were NF, as well as perhaps ancient Japan.


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## SubterraneanHomesickAlien (May 16, 2010)

xezene said:


> Good question! I would venture to say that many of the traditional Native American cultures of ages past were NF, as well as perhaps ancient Japan.


While I agree with the common (and probably accurate) stereotype of American-Indian cultures as NF, there's no way Japan was. xSTJ to the max there.


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## Luke (Oct 17, 2010)

I think Australian Aboriginals could be one. In fact their religion/mythology is called the "dream time" :happy:


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## Aero (Nov 25, 2009)

So far am I to gather from this that NFs lose the game?


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

SubterraneanHomesickAlien said:


> While I agree with the common (and probably accurate) stereotype of American-Indian cultures as NF, there's no way Japan was. xSTJ to the max there.


Japanese don't like expressing their feelings, especially if they are bad, because they are afraid that they will make others uncomfortable, I'm not sure if that qualifies as F, but it doesn't seem very T...


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## susurration (Oct 22, 2009)

Luke said:


> I think Australian Aboriginals could be one. In fact their religion/mythology is called the "dream time" :happy:


It was/is quite a unique culture. 

"According to Aboriginal belief, all life as it is today - Human, Animal, Bird and Fish is part of one vast unchanging network of relationships which can be traced to the great spirit ancestors of the Dreamtime". http://aboriginalart.com.au/culture/dreamtime2.html

I like how everything is connected, and that they see themselves as part of the land. Some of these cultural beliefs are seemingly so ahead of their time (is that ironic?). As arguably the worlds oldest culture, indigenous culture still has a lot to offer the developing world. It's a pity it's so devalued and has been torn apart over the last 200 odd years. I suppose it completely comes at odds with modern capitalist society at the end of the day.


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## Linus (Apr 27, 2010)

What about countries that have free post-secondary education? ..Finland, Sweden, Norway I think


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## Razvan (Dec 17, 2009)

tangential said:


> I heard that France is one. Any others?


Heardthat France is not one, what makes you say that? :happy: Also I think we should make a difference between what countries declare and what they actually do.

I'd be inclined to believe Canada is one...they have good imigration laws, while mainteining a balance and not really warlike. Not sure though.


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## SubterraneanHomesickAlien (May 16, 2010)

Krou said:


> Japanese don't like expressing their feelings, especially if they are bad, because they are afraid that they will make others uncomfortable, I'm not sure if that qualifies as F, but it doesn't seem very T...


That sounds like Fe... ignoring your own feelings to make the group happy. So maybe xSxJ would be a better classification. Either way, they certainly aren't NF.... think of all the things they did in WWII instead of simply surrendering.


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## snail (Oct 13, 2008)

I would have trouble believing that Japan was ever NF. 

Nanking Massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Comfort women - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

snail said:


> I would have trouble believing that Japan was ever NF.
> 
> Nanking Massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> Comfort women - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Well, does being NF equals being good? Some chapters of Japan's history are ruthless but at the same time make no sense at all, like the WWII experiments, it's like they acted purely on ruthless feelings and evilness. Aren't Feelers supposed to act on emotions rather on thinking? Maybe not N, but I can't rule out F.


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## LeafStew (Oct 17, 2009)

Japan is pretty much value oriented (that's Fe, could be linked to both S and N). I do believe that Shintoism is a lot like native american religion and other polytheism religion that search for meaning in nature. They believe that man are part of the ecosystems and not above them (that's what I learned in a culture class). I dont know if that qualifies them as NF though since the Japanese value hierarchy a lot and masculine values as well.

I would say Quebec is quite NF if anything. Unlike other place in Canada we value equality more than anything else and have quite a social brand of capitalism. That's why we have less rich people but our poorer class are less poor than elsewhere in North America. Also, if we were independent we would be like the top 6-7 of the most in debt nation in the world behind Japan, the PIIGS (Portugal, Italy, Ireland, Greece, Spain) and other countries (calculated by the debt/GDP ratio). 

I think that the quest for independence could have something to do with it as well. Half of the population wants it. It's all about projecting our nation in the future in search for a better tomorrow. At least, that's what they think. A few people dont like the idea that our French colony was conquered by the British even if that was quite some time ago... They want full taxation right, cultural power and full control over their spending (some money comes from the federal government).


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## Banjo (Apr 25, 2010)

Did you take rules, regulations and routine in consideration when you mentioned Scandinavia? I live in Scandinavia (Sweden to be more accurate) and that's what I hate with this place. 
Part from that we lately have been good in equality, solidarity (eg. immigration) and it's sparsely populated which make it not too crowded and with a nice nature. 

Someone said Japan couldn't be NF cause they never surrendered in a war. That would make Sweden very NF as we surrendered for the germans in World War II. :tongue:


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## Luke (Oct 17, 2010)

I would say Japan is IXTJ. I don't think feeling would be very respected in their society at all. Intuition might be if it gets results.


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## noz (Dec 7, 2009)

I think Australia could be considered NF based on the kind of political capital that country has. It's almost as if some mad scientists cloned a bunch of purebred-INFP green hippies who were genetically programmed to "save Mother earth and all animals at all costs" and then let them loose in the outback.


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## Seeker (Aug 12, 2010)

xezene said:


> Good question! I would venture to say that many of the traditional Native American cultures of ages past were NF.


That's an intriguing idea! I'm a 1/8 Cherokee product of forced assimilation. I was not raised with my heritage, and my all-white mom suppressed evidence of my race---having me bleach my hair and get plastic surgery. My heritage was not acknowledged at home, and I grew up hearing things like "Y'all are acting like a bunch of wild Indians. Settle down." 

My mother and father also tried to "assimilate" my personality. They did not want me to be the NF that I was. 

Anyway, I write novels. Like most creative writers, I hear voices in my head and characters talk to me---I know that I am hearing them in my head, which is the fine line between creative and crazy. So anyway, in the past year, I've had this voice in my head that says, "Run! Hide!" I see a smoky landscape with fire in the background. A Cherokee women runs and is caught by a white solider. People are screaming and running as the white soldiers chase them down. My protagonist's cabin is at the back of the camp and she flees to the woods. I have an inkling that she hides quite successfully.

Anyway, now after seeing this post, I think this novel seed symbolizes suppression of NF traits. 

And the conflict between Cherokee and European settlers does seem a lot like a situation where Takers dominate Givers. My Cherokee ancestors were a welcoming people. They adopted displaced people from other tribes. They did bargain with the whites, teach them a lot about the land, and give them goods. It's all a lot like the way I give in a relationship. 

They formed an alliance with Andrew Jackson against their common enemies. They even signed treaties. 

And these kind-hearted, naive Cherokee thought they were going to be valued and that the whites would give back. Instead, Jackson burned down their homes, drove them off their land, and forced them on a death march half-way across the country. It feels a lot like my relationships with INTJ exes.


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## xezene (Aug 7, 2010)

I agree with most of you on here that Japan is not NF -- today. But you missed my original post -- I said _ancient Japan_. Very different than modern Japan. By ancient Japan, I'm talking like ancient Rome, so a thousand years ago or older. Although upon further consideration, I am inclined to believe _ancient Japan_ was NT.


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## Seeker (Aug 12, 2010)

xezene said:


> I agree with most of you on here that Japan is not NF -- today. But you missed my original post -- I said _ancient Japan_. Very different than modern Japan. By ancient Japan, I'm talking like ancient Rome, so a thousand years ago or older. Although upon further consideration, I am inclined to believe _ancient Japan_ was NT.


I caught it.


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## Roland (Jun 1, 2009)

Montreal seems to have a lot of NFs! Although there are a lot of all the others, I seem to meet a couple NFs every year.


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## Mutatio NOmenis (Jun 22, 2009)

Most SI-party countries have NF ideals. Socialism is pretty NF with its ideals of equality and communality.


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## Banjo (Apr 25, 2010)

Why is socialism NF? Wouldn't anarcocapitalism then be the utopian society? I value the liberalish idelogies higher, but that is a persional viewpoint on politics. Socialism, yuck.


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## Mutatio NOmenis (Jun 22, 2009)

^ Without defined rights, you give free reign for there to be evil. And don't claim Minarchism/Libertarianism; they're Anarchism for the rich.


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## Banjo (Apr 25, 2010)

With anarchism for the poor I would have to share my belongings with people who would never survive on their own (Hey, my fellow INFP's?), so I say as Buddha: The middle way. Which one is that? Not socialism, it's too totalitarian whatever you might say.

Anyway, even though if it's said that Canada and Scandinavia has a lot in common, still they seem to differ, Canada just seems preferable. I don't know why. It feels like a hell good country, and they beat our ass in ice hockey every year. Maybe the grass is greener on the other side though :happy:


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## Mutatio NOmenis (Jun 22, 2009)

^ It's called Democratic Socialism. IT maintains the Capitalist means of production with the state providing Socialized services to the population.


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## Banjo (Apr 25, 2010)

Which in practice means that hard work should not be aimed at? So in conclusion, social democracy is not the same as socialism. If going after political views Scandinavia would be the best NF countries then?


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## Seeker (Aug 12, 2010)

Banjo said:


> Why is socialism NF? Wouldn't anarcocapitalism then be the utopian society? I value the liberalish idelogies higher, but that is a persional viewpoint on politics. Socialism, yuck.


Socialism is charitable. It means that everyone sacrifices something so that everyone is cared for.


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## Doom (Oct 25, 2010)

I'd say Japan is full of both NF and STJ types, the whole Otaku culture seems to dominated by NF types but the nation as a whole comes off as ISTJ.

I'd say Scandinavian Countries are quite NF as well especially Sweden.


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## Razvan (Dec 17, 2009)

Seeker said:


> Socialism is charitable. It means that everyone sacrifices something so that everyone is cared for.


In a perfect form yes, unfortunately, it can also lead to corruption as people will expect these things and will start electing those who will give them more, instead of those more capable leaders, which in return will lead to destruction. In a perfect world with perfect people, this could work, I'd say, socialism could work only if people are giving directly to other people or through charitable organisations and not through the state. I think the level of education of people in that state matters alot, but on the other hand this is true for any form of organisation.


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## Seeker (Aug 12, 2010)

Razvan, we could say that about any government. There's a lot of corruption here in the U.S. And people here are short-sighted and elect politicians based on quick fix promises. 

Socialism has its problems in England, Holland, Canada, etc. But it also has its benefits.


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## Banjo (Apr 25, 2010)

Then social democratism isn't preferable as Sweden traditionally has been a social democrat country, but still, everyone did not sacrifice for all and all did not get cared for. So I think of socialism, but also social democracy as total bullshit. Are you saying England, Canada and Holland all were mayorly socialist? Common! Not even Sweden was. We are capitalist crap, and it's what works in the long end. 

Anyway, let's form our own NF-country instead.


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## Seeker (Aug 12, 2010)

I don't think there's going to be any system where "everyone" sacrifices for "all." Just some weigh certain things more heavily than others. 

Holland, England, and Canada are much more socialist countries than the U.S. Here in the U.S. I have to pay $200 a month for shitty health insurance. The insurance barely covers anything. So I'm hesitant to go to the emergency room when I need to because it will cost me over $1000. 

I worked for child protective services here, and our funding was a joke. We had 5000 open cases and only 80 attorneys. 

But we've got people whining about estate taxes on estates that are in excess of $1 million. 

Our politicians have to raise hundreds of millions of dollars for their campaigns if they want to get elected. And those hundreds of millions come from special interests---large corporations who stand to profit. It's not really democratic when the election has been bought in this manner.


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## abitsilly (Mar 4, 2010)

The coutrys are mande up of scared and stupid people who won't do anything about the situation we are in. I don't know what type polititians are in but I can't stand them none of them stand for peace or putting the people (real people, not the rich classes) first. Government is trying to get the peoples vote but it all counts for nothing when they stick to the same plans as they had before, its laughable. Solution is elect someone into goverment who can do the job, if they refuse to do it we refuse to vote... simple. A vote of no confidence is the best way forward.
And why do they always send the poor into war? We fight for you, we pay the taxes and live in poverty, we wash your cars and serve your meals. And some of us don't see what a shit situation this is? It's like we don't deserve to have a good education because we have no money. I wish they would focus completely on people, not big companys and wars. But focus of education and protecting people in the worst situations. 
In some countrys people have grouped together and formed societys where noone gets paid more than the other, so they all work in jobs they want. It's an idea. One that is lost on this government.I honestly think when we get rid of the royal family, we might have a chance of equality. They are all that stands in the way of a wealthier and less divided nation.
Stop standing on tradition people it's time to pull the crapet out from under these all singing all dancing scum of the earth.


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## nevermore (Oct 1, 2010)

I'm Canadian and I can assure you that while it's impossible to "type" a culture it is very F, and has been recognized as such by people who have written books on type and nation. But not NF. We as a nation do not have much ambition or imagination (not a positive trait, but it's true), preferring to do things "the way they have always worked best". We tend to be a very practical people, not very concerned with innovation, and tend to be very nostalgic and backwards-looking (ironically, this is why we value multiculturalism so much). I have to admit I have a bit of self-internalized hatred because I was raised to mistrust dispassionate reason. Personally I'd say ISFJ (it definitely was historically), but I can't be sure. It could be ESFJ now, especially after Trudeau.

Like most nations, Canada is SJ, albeit SFJ.


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