# Male ISFP or ISTP?



## Ray Mabry (Jun 6, 2010)

So I tried typing a friend of mine based on his behaviors a while back and originally, based on what I know about each of the functions, came to the conclusion that he was likely a ISFP.
After doing more research about ISFP's though I was thrown off a bit though and I need some help here. 

So what does he sound like he is to you?

This is what I noticed about him:

- He loves alcohol. 

- He tends to comment on smells and sensations. 
(both things I noticed about an ESTP friend of mine so I figured he was at least Se)
*Also I note that he makes fun of my ESTP friend for drinking and smoking too much made me think perhaps that he didn't value Se enough to be Se dominant. They tend to fight alot*

- We were debating about something and he became offended and thought me and a friend were "cutting him down" when it wasn't even about him.

- He plays video games or watches movies most of the time.

- He tends to be inconsiderate of others alot of the time and it's probably where he conflicts with people the most.

- in spite of him being inconsiderate of others in some ways he can be very thoughtful at times. Originally I thought he might have been Fe dominant.

- He tends to want to "teach his friends lessons" if he disagrees with something they are doing.

- He often likes to make up stories or hide things from people to then see how they will react.

- He seems to love animals.

- He has an issue with anger at times. Make him mad and he'll say whatever comes to mind to piss the other person off.

- He behaves impulsively at times.

So can anyone help me figure this out?


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## Linnifae (Nov 13, 2009)

Ray Mabry said:


> So I tried typing a friend of mine based on his behaviors a while back and originally, based on what I know about each of the functions, came to the conclusion that he was likely a ISFP.
> After doing more research about ISFP's though I was thrown off a bit though and I need some help here.
> 
> So what does he sound like he is to you?
> ...


My husband is a definite ISTP and these are the traits your friend has in common with him. (in bold). I'm leaning towards ISTP.


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## danicx (Dec 5, 2009)

I'm tentatively leaning ISFP. But a whole lot of those traits could easily fit either type. From my experience, there's a really big difference in how ISFP's vs. ISTP's exhibit their Se. Fi-Se vs. Ti-Se.


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## Ray Mabry (Jun 6, 2010)

It's so difficult to figure him out LOL. 

One thing I as well as an ESTP friend also noticed is that he's not always all that great with technology. Myself as well as my ESTP friend are usually always able to figure things out but him not so much.

and I always feel like him and I conflict. Like we end up doing whatever he wants to do usually and I feel almost the same around him as I do hanging out with ENFP or INFP friends. There's always a moment where i'm like what's the point of me even being here. I don't notice that type of conflict with my ESTP friend. So I figured Fi was at play. But it's very difficult to fully figure out.

I'll also point out that he's 23 so his tertiary and inferior functions most likely arent developed enough for them to show.

what's the main difference between the expression of Fi-Se vs Ti-Se. I've been trying to figure that one out in my head but I still can't figure out what he is.


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## danicx (Dec 5, 2009)

Ray Mabry said:


> what's the main difference between the expression of Fi-Se vs Ti-Se. I've been trying to figure that one out in my head but I still can't figure out what he is.


Well ... I'm no MB scholar but I'll try to Ne it from my experience with male IST/FP's. The introverted function is like the inspiration for their Se. So with Fi their actions seem more gut-inspired, they'll make spontaneous decisions because it felt right, or they'll behave a certain way or treat friends a certain way for reasons they can't really figure out (personal experience). Fi is totally unpredictable to outsiders, and to the Fi user I think. And ISFP's seem to not like trying to explore it or explain their Fi-Se based actions. With Ti-Se there's a better grasp of the process. Their decisions can happen in a similar way, really spontaneous-seeming, maybe not making a lot of sense to you, but they have a clear and reasonable motivation which they can explain (but won't unless you ask). They think about their feelings and instincts in a similar way to ENTP's. They rationalize feelings. ISFP's don't even begin to do that, their feelings are like this nebulous force that drives their decision-making. ISFP's are more scattered .. and maybe more likely to have regrets and mixed feelings. ISTP's are more comfortable with their past choices regardless of the outcome. ISFP's spend a lot of time trying to find themselves, "who they are", which they do through experiences (Se) ... and ISTP's spend a lot of time trying to figure out what they like and how they can be happy, which they also do through experiences (Se). And ISFP's can have a lot of relationship drama (with Fi being difficult to predict, understand, and explain), whereas ISTP's might have an equally wild relationship history but not in a histrionic way at all. Their feelings are as I said similar to ours, they're there but they're sort of underneath our thinking and we might not exactly experience them strongly and in the moment.


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## alionsroar (Jun 5, 2010)

Could he be an extravert?


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## Ray Mabry (Jun 6, 2010)

pc3000 said:


> Could he be an extravert?


I thought perhaps he might be ESTP but his actions in relation to my ESTP friend led me to believe that there is some kind of conflict in terms of Se...he understands Se but doesn't value it as much as my ESTP friend does so he looks down on him for being impulsive.

It's hard to say if he's extravereted though, being that extraverted types can appear to be outgoing or loners and introverts can appear to be the same.

He doesn't have a large circle of friends or anything and often seems to spend time by himself in spite the fact that he has this underlying thing of lonliness...and he seems to conflict with people in some sort of way where he wants them there but then wants to do mostly what he wants to do. I wouldn't assume that Se would conflict in that way and I know he has Se...so i'm confused! lol.


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## alionsroar (Jun 5, 2010)

I was thinking maybe an ESFP who needs to focus more on his Fi instead of Se/Te.

He seems a bit more active in his dealings with people than how I imagine an ISXP would be. Often ISXPs, at least immature ones, prefer not to be around people they conflict with - ISFPs because they are forced to empathise with the mean person with their dominant Fi and ISTPs because they are forced to use their inferior Fe to relate to the mean person.

Maybe he clashes with the ESTP because of the Fi/Te vs Ti/Fe. Dominant/Auxiliary Fi users like to follow their own values while Fe can manipulate/seduce other people into harmony.

Since he spends his time on movies/video games his Se hasn't picked up enough clues about how to deal with people or he hasn't introspected or empathised enough with his Fi so he's a bit frustrated and his inferior Te is coming out.

Ti is better than Fi to find the logical reasoning about things like technology. You can't really use Fi to emotionally relate to a piece of hardware. Te just wants it to work.

Maybe another ESFP might have an opinion. Because I noticed you seemed to rule out ESFP?


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## Ray Mabry (Jun 6, 2010)

pc3000 said:


> I was thinking maybe an ESFP who needs to focus more on his Fi instead of Se/Te.
> 
> He seems a bit more active in his dealings with people than how I imagine an ISXP would be. Often ISXPs, at least immature ones, prefer not to be around people they conflict with - ISFPs because they are forced to empathise with the mean person with their dominant Fi and ISTPs because they are forced to use their inferior Fe to relate to the mean person.


I didn't mean conflict in an outright way. My mistake. He and the ESTP have conflicted outright and as a result their friendship diminished somewhat...almost as quickly as it started. Him and I have never fought but often i've noticed that he basically insists upon doing what he wants to do. For an example he'll invite people over and then a good portion of the time he won't focus on entertaining them at all...he'll more or less just continue to play his video games and talk to them. He's conflicted with myself everyone else that I know in this way. 



> Maybe he clashes with the ESTP because of the Fi/Te vs Ti/Fe. Dominant/Auxiliary Fi users like to follow their own values while Fe can manipulate/seduce other people into harmony.
> 
> Since he spends his time on movies/video games his Se hasn't picked up enough clues about how to deal with people or he hasn't introspected or empathised enough with his Fi so he's a bit frustrated and his inferior Te is coming out.
> 
> ...


I guess I ruled out ESFP for the simple fact that I don't think it's Se that is his main issue. Whatever this function is that I can't figure out I feel like that is his dominant and overbearing function.

I keep leaning towards ISFP but the descriptions of them just sound odd...I dunno that he's artistic. I think he dreams of doing something with music...but that side of him doesn't always show.

I also doubt he's Ti/Fe...the Ti seems to be lacking..and you saying that Te "just wants it to work" gives me a vivid memory of him saying similar things like..."I don't care how it works I just want it to work."

Blah...I'm still confused...hahaha...thanx for all your help thought thus far. Thanx to you and those that responded before.


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## Heuristyx (Sep 20, 2010)

How impulsive is your buddy?


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## Ray Mabry (Jun 6, 2010)

Heuristyx said:


> How impulsive is your buddy?


Not too much. If he becomes bored he get's a bit impulsive. Usually thoughts like "Hey, wanna go to the bar" or "We should try to find a strip club" come up or he'll get a random idea for like a prank or something and get all excited and have to do it in that moment.

From my point of view though I don't see him as being super impulsive or even really giving in to every impulse. I've seen far worse from my ESTP friend.


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## Heuristyx (Sep 20, 2010)

_*One thing I as well as an ESTP friend also noticed is that he's not always all that great with technology. *_*Myself as well as my ESTP friend are usually always able to figure things out but him not so much.*
*
... we end up doing whatever he wants to do usually... There's always a moment where i'm like what's the point of me even being here. 

he looks down on him [ESTP] for being impulsive.

He doesn't have a large circle of friends or anything and often seems to spend time by himself in spite the fact that he has this underlying thing of lonliness...and he seems to conflict with people in some sort of way where he wants them there but then wants to do mostly what he wants to do.

Him and I have never fought but often i've noticed that he basically insists upon doing what he wants to do. For an example he'll invite people over and then a good portion of the time he won't focus on entertaining them at all...he'll more or less just continue to play his video games and talk to them. He's conflicted with myself everyone else that I know in this way.*

*"I don't care how it works I just want it to work."*

I think you should consider ISFJ. All of the above points to that type imo.


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## Ray Mabry (Jun 6, 2010)

Heuristyx said:


> _*One thing I as well as an ESTP friend also noticed is that he's not always all that great with technology. *_*Myself as well as my ESTP friend are usually always able to figure things out but him not so much.*
> *
> ... we end up doing whatever he wants to do usually... There's always a moment where i'm like what's the point of me even being here.
> 
> ...


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## Heuristyx (Sep 20, 2010)

Ray Mabry said:


> I envision those with higher up Fe to be a bit more...I dunno...unselfish. I mean I suppose on the one hand the Fe can be use to influence others but I feel like it also would make him more sensitive to group needs and stuff like that. But he seems somewhat selfish at times but then randomly will do little things like grab an empty can out of your hand to throw away when you haven't even expressed that you wanted it to be thrown away.


If you read the description of ISFJ, you'd think that they'd be very unselfish. And they are actually very selfless... when they're healthy. Unhealthy ISFJs are some of the most selfish people I've ever met. You're friend is probably healthy enough, just young. Perhaps he hasn't reached his amazing full potential. Of course, there is also the very small possibility I'm wrong.  

ISFJs are pretty well known for throwing stuff away before you've made it clear that you're done with it, whether they're particularly fastidious or not. IDK why this is.


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## alionsroar (Jun 5, 2010)

Yeah I'm not convinced of any type. The "I did it before so.." might be a sign of Te doing what has worked.

Between ISFP and ISTP I'd say ISTP just because the interaction styles of ISFPs tend to be more 'phlegmatic' and 'passive'.

I still get the sense of either extravert or feeler from him seeing as his solution to boredom is to deal with people at bars/clubs/pranks. Many ISTPs if bored would go deal with things and hobbies not necessarily people.

I see video games and movies as impulsive activities since you don't really put much thought behind doing or not doing them - you just do them because you feel like it. I think the ESTP would seem more impulsive since they don't have Te to say they shouldn't do something seemingly illogical or Fi to worry about how they feel.

I don't think it's the dominant function that causes problems for people but a poor use of their other functions. Maybe if he is ESFP he finds it hard to see things from others' point of view since his Ni is inferior and he is processing things through his Fi that since he wants to play games, that's what other people want to do.


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## Ray Mabry (Jun 6, 2010)

Heuristyx said:


> If you read the description of ISFJ, you'd think that they'd be very unselfish. And they are actually very selfless... when they're healthy. Unhealthy ISFJs are some of the most selfish people I've ever met. You're friend is probably healthy enough, just young. Perhaps he hasn't reached his amazing full potential. Of course, there is also the very small possibility I'm wrong.
> 
> ISFJs are pretty well known for throwing stuff away before you've made it clear that you're done with it, whether they're particularly fastidious or not. IDK why this is.


Oh well he makes sure i'm done with stuff first. He's not annoying like that! Things like that can start a fight with me hahahaha.


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## Ray Mabry (Jun 6, 2010)

pc3000 said:


> Yeah I'm not convinced of any type. The "I did it before so.." might be a sign of Te doing what has worked.
> 
> Between ISFP and ISTP I'd say ISTP just because the interaction styles of ISFPs tend to be more 'phlegmatic' and 'passive'.
> 
> ...


See that's the issue. I know that Fi sometimes gets in the way with me and infp friends but the issues aren't as bad....I do remember reading that when one uses their dominant function they appear mature...but then on the other hand I dunno that my ESTP friend appears mature at least not from my own perspective....at least everyone has helped me narrow it down to what he is most likely to be. I guess i'm gonna have to do some more observing.


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## Ray Mabry (Jun 6, 2010)

You know, now that I think about it...he might be a male ESFP!!! after reading about the type and reading about the interaction (via socionics) that ENTP's and ESFP's would have I can see it. Also in thinking about how the functions work in relation to each other it kind of makes more sense I suppose. The dominant function would be more mature while the secondary might be lacking. So I guess I could see it as the other way around...

Thanx alot for all of your help you guys!


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