# Which E-Type is the Greatest Enigma to You? Why?



## Galaxies (Apr 9, 2013)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> *9s:* I can't imagine being pissed off and trying to deny/hold it back (my anger is like a dragon bitch!). 9w8 especially baffles me (8 and 9 are such opposite types. seeing them in the same personality is bizarre)


My understanding is that 9s are passive-aggressive _not_ wholly passive. 

I'm a mix of mellow and passive 99% of the time but then I do have that 1% in which I've bottled up everything and I explode. It's not pleasant (I'm not physically violent) but I'm not able to control my feelings. Thankfully, only my family has seen that side of me so I haven't had to deal with anything drastic. People always assume I'm chill when actually, I'm just unable to assert/unaware of my needs.

ETA: I, too, see image types as enigmas. Fascinating, though not so easy for me to relate to.


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## 0+n*1 (Sep 20, 2013)

I guess you're right at not understanding 9s if we assume I am a 9, because I don't relate to those things you posted above. I relate to some parts of it in a conceptual level. I guess I was right self-typing as a 6. 

Now, back to the topic. I think I only have a conceptual understanding of the types, but not a real one. I constantly question my understanding of the types and try to strip off the types to a universal, core level. I am trying to avoid thinking of the types as edge-trimmed caricatures, mere stereotypes, of a human being, but I end up having a blurred image of their differences, where there are a lot of overlaps. To put in another way, I "understand" the types but I find difficult to see them in the real world. That makes me question my understanding.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Figure said:


> *5's: *The "enigma" here is much more permeating than the above. I simply don't understand how type 5's core fears work, and find it difficult to understand how their approach is effective in dealing with the world on a pragmatic level - then again, I don't spend a lot of time thinking about non-pragmatic things, so I'm equally out of place in their world. I'm very much open to input on 5's, as I tend to stereotype them as not being action-oriented - so why would be important to "know more" as opposed to "do more?"


Ditto on 1s. I don't understand this need to be right all the time, to be perfect, living up to standards? I have standards, but not standards of impossible perfection. There's beauty in being flawed. I might even argue more beauty in the flawed than the perfect. Perfect you see and then just gloss over because there's nothing to captivate you but with the flawed there's struggle and improvement. You see growth. There's nothing beautiful about people always having it served on a silver platter because there's nothing to admire.

As for how 5 works on a pragmatic level - it's basically summarized through the creed that knowledge is power. When you know and understand, you also know what to do. Not so much the right thing in a moral sense, but the thing which is the most likely to work out for you, make the most sense, help you cope and deal the best, in a Te-esque biased sense, what's the most effective way of doing things. 

In a practical sense imagine that you are lost in a maze and you have no clue where you are and where you need to go. 5 logic is the need to know the structure, to map out the maze because if you act before you know you might step into a trap and die or get even more lost than you already are and how you are then supposed to find your way out? Even for sx 5, 5 is a cautious type. It seeks to prepare and ward against dangers by empowering itself with knowledge of the current situation. 

To call it lacking in action is not incorrect at all since it after all integrates into two id types, both being action-oriented in their own respective senses. It's more that informed choices lead to the best actions [to survive]. Survival is not of a moral character as in the fear of being under some form of moral scrutiny, but survival is a matter to survive _at all_. I think especially if 5 is influenced by sp logic, survival becomes a highly personalized thing only really concerning the type 5 at the risk of shutting out everything else.


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

There are types I enjoy more than others. But, no type is an 'enigma' to me by a long shot.


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## The Scorched Earth (May 17, 2010)

2's are a type I will never fully "get." I don't have really any compulsion to be of service to anyone or any cause. In fact, my interest in causes outside myself, politically or socially, is inconsistent and abstract at best. And pride is not something I usually indulge in. 

The aggressive types (3,7, and 8) are also a mystery. I will never have the kind of ease and comfort with the "real" world that these types seem to have, which will possibly be my downfall. -_-


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## braided pain (Jul 6, 2012)

Twos are the most foreign; I can understand them on an intellectual level, but I have a hard time relating.

But for straight up confusing, I gotta go with myself. I wish I could be more consistent.


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

I would be as interested, if not more, in hearing what type people routinely underestimate.


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## Animal (May 29, 2012)

Flatlander said:


> I would be as interested, if not more, in hearing what type people routinely underestimate.


Definitely type 9.

Enigmatic as 6's are, I can tell right away that there's more than meets the eye; that there's a challenge around the corner. 9s slowly grow on me. At first they seem so up front, simple (in a beautiful way; simple does not mean stupid ) .. present, down to earth. Then as I get to know them, the hidden world and talents come to the surface. It's very beautiful. I don't know if I would say "underestimate" but certainly I have been taken aback by the way there is more, and more, and more which comes out slowly over time.


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## Lunar Light (Jun 6, 2013)

I think personally the underlying motivations of the type 9 aren't necessarily hard to understand, to an extent, but I still am really puzzled by it. I just really don't have much 9 in me at all and can't at all relate to the way they approach mediating conflicts. I'm reactive, and it's just not in my nature to compromise my values, which is what it feels to me that 9s do sometimes to keep the peace. 

It's not that I'm so stubborn as to not see that I'm wrong at times (I'm actually always really quick to admit my mistakes!), but when I do so, I still always express my thoughts in full—where I think I'm still justified at parts, where I felt the other person was unjustified, where I think there needs to be improvement. And I get the feeling that this isn't something that all 9s do. It feels like they just let it all go, deeming it not worth it to go to that trouble, which is so alien to me. 

Plus, some of the 9s I know deliberately settle for less than what they could attain to keep that inner peace. This is just so against my nature. Perhaps I over-identify with emotions, as a type 4, but I'd rather feel extreme highs as well as extreme lows, to experience the full extent of life (I guess?)...than to intentionally keep myself somewhat contained by being much more hesitant to take some risks, by not daring to be as idealistic/hopeful. Hmm...just my take, based on a specific experience with several 9w1s.



kaleidoscope said:


> (Most enigmatic type for me, is probably type 5. Never been able to relate to it. Detached is something no one would ever think to call me, and I can't help but impact and be impacted by every experience in my life.)


Oh, and I'm with you here, woman! Reading my minddddd as always haha. Spooky stuff, aye! :shocked::kitteh:


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## hal0hal0 (Sep 1, 2012)

Figure said:


> *Honorable Mention - 4:* The lower side of 4 I am _very_ familiar with and understand experientially, but I actually don't have a great feel for the _*potential*_ of type 4, as I only ever experience the type in a state that signals something is wrong, and needs to be balanced again. I'm very curious to know what the_ high _side of 4 is like, as I only ever really experience the low.


Oddly, I find my highs are the abandonment of an ideal (or more importantly, abandoning the thought that the ideal is unattainable... it's about embracing a force of will and feeling of worthiness and power). It is very easy for me to get hung up on what else I _could_ be doing or what I _could_ have, but simply finding joy or beauty in the simplest of things can be a powerful restoring force. The recognition that, virtually anything can be interesting, exciting, or valuable. I adore the minimalist writing styles of, say, Raymond Carver, because he takes the most bare-bones of personal interactions and imbues it with significance, feeling and importance... Don't get me wrong... I love crazy, in-depth fantasy worlds like Skyrim or whatever, but my favorite artists often bring beauty, humor or wicked satire to the mundane. 

I wrote this in another thread, to illustrate that even though my life is probably "boring" to many people, I can often amuse myself with the stupidest simple of things:



> Psh, I can turn a trip upstairs to the refrigerator into an Odyssey...
> 
> In my path lies the demon Pekingese that would send Cerberus whimpering away in fear. Her bulging grotesque eyes, seemingly lidless in their visage are complemented by a vicious-looking under-bite. The beast's maw belies the true danger: The Yip of Squeakiness. She blocks my path to the heavenly Ascent. Those steps paved in linoleum—they are a tad cracked and peeling—are a treacherous slope that have claimed the shins of many a hero in days of yore.
> 
> ...


Of course, I can short-circuit this line of thinking by turning reality into an ideal (which I think is better illustrated by the Buddhist concept of mindfulness rather than enneagram per se):



> _We should always try to be active coming out of _samadhi_. For this, we have to forget things like "I should be mindful of this or that". If you are mindful, you are _*already creating a separation ("I - am - mindful - of - ...."). Don't be mindful, please! When you walk, just walk. Let the walk walk. Let the talk talk (Dogen Zenji says: "When we open our mouths, it is filled with Dharma"). Let the eating eat, the sitting sit, the work work. Let sleep sleep.
> 
> ---- Muho Noelke*


In some ways, it's about... Fuck self-consciousness. Just engaging and committing to doing my best with whatever it is I'm doing (and I SHOULD be paying attention to my professor right now, so I'm closing PerC now. Bye).


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

To answer my own question, I think if I were looking superficially at the types, I would most natively underestimate type 7. I've noticed that 7s can look to me like they lack a certain focus that, in my own life, gives me strength. I have to stretch myself in certain ways to honor their way of going about life and see it in terms of its own purpose.

The idea that some type is an enigma to you requires that every level of it, from the superficie to the depth, be opaque to you. The idea of a type being underestimated by you can point to your blind spot without you needing to lack understanding of the type, hence it isn't _completely_ an enigma. This might be especially useful to ask, then, for those people who say they do not see any enigmatic types: @_Cosmic Orgasm_.


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## bearotter (Aug 10, 2012)

Underestimated -- maybe type 2. Although part of this is simply the nature of what I seek, I'm sure a lot of type 2's that I might "underestimate" would be far from underestimated by those who esteem them. The simple dynamic of pride as a passion in how it tends to play out in 2, among all the positive triad types, probably makes it hardest for me to see what gives this type _direction_. 

As for 7's, I know one or two people I'd vaguely guess are 7's with a 6 wing, and they make a lot more sense to me than the other kind of 7. Neither 7 nor 9 is a type I'd underestimate much. 7 makes a bunch of sense to me.


As for _complete_ enigma, discarding specific versions of type presentations, I'd say among those I've actually experienced in life + my general synthesis of different ideas on what this type is, probably 1. More so than with 2, I really can't imagine how their wheels keep turning, so to speak.


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## lebon (Jun 7, 2013)

9s. they are just as sensitive as four, just more peaceful..

and it frustrates me how 4s get the least votes tied with 1s :frustrating:


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## lebon (Jun 7, 2013)

(sorry,bad connection)


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## QrivaN (Aug 3, 2012)

3s, 4s, and 8s.

I'll never understand how 3s can be so driven just for the sake of success. It's always baffled me and probably always will. I mean, they get the drive from their desire to succeed, but when they do succeed, it makes them want to succeed more, so where the heck is it all coming from?

From my interactions with 4s, they know who they are (which, in itself, is pretty impressive to me) and they want people to see them for who they are. What I don't get is, well, the entire "I want people to see who I am" thing. If you're being yourself, aren't people seeing who you are? I dunno, all in all, 4s in general just confuse me.

8s are so intense. It's enigmatic to me because it's as if the intensity doesn't go away, ever. There's gotta be something driving that intensity, right? The intensity can't just be there for the sake of being there, can it? I don't think I'll ever understand what goes through an 8's mind.


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## Animal (May 29, 2012)

lebon said:


> and it frustrates me how 4s get the least votes tied with 1s :frustrating:


Haha how come?

I can't stand it when people tell me I'm complicated. I want to be innocent, true, animalistic, youthful. If i'm complicated, then I am failing to understand myself or I am failing to communicate. Therefore I am doing something wrong.

That being said I am very very attracted to complexity in others.


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## 0+n*1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Animal said:


> Haha how come?
> 
> I can't stand it when people tell me I'm complicated. I want to be innocent, true, animalistic, youthful. If i'm complicated, then I am failing to understand myself or I am failing to communicate. Therefore I am doing something wrong.
> 
> That being said I am very very attracted to complexity in others.


I can't stand when I believe I am not complex. I think that's the starting point of the rut of self-perception as empty, aimless, conformist and dead. When others acknowledge this I feel happy, but when I think about it and regard it as pathetic, I feel ashamed. I have a lot of insecurities around feeling non-special, blank, around identity in general. I don't know if I am attracted to complexity in others. I want to say yes because that makes me feel good about myself but I think I wouldn't be good at handling it and I would end up detaching from the source. Oh 9!


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## star tripper (Sep 1, 2013)

The only type I really reel at is 6. I don't understand how anyone can dwell in 6 land. It sounds miserable to me. Even imagining it makes me want to shift to a happier mindset. I'm a 6-winger and whenever the wing gets strong, it's like RIP star tripper. Ironically, most of my absolute favorite people are in fact 6s (usually 6w7) _because_ I'm so, I'm not sure, sucked into them? They're not 4s, y'know, they're not living off in 6 land for the sake of uniqueness or what have you. Actually, come to think of it, I think this could be a side-effect of me underestimating them. They elude me and I don't know what to expect, so when they do something relatively extraordinary, it's like fireworks go off or something.


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## Animal (May 29, 2012)

Mr.Rbtoo said:


> I can't stand when I believe I am not complex. I think that's the starting point of the rut of self-perception as empty, aimless, conformist and dead. When others acknowledge this I feel happy, but when I think about it and regard it as pathetic, I feel ashamed. I have a lot of insecurities around feeling non-special, blank, around identity in general. I don't know if I am attracted to complexity in others. I want to say yes because that makes me feel good about myself but I think I wouldn't be good at handling it and I would end up detaching from the source. Oh 9!


Well so far 9w1 is winning as the biggest enigma on this multiple choice poll, so I don't think you have anything to worry about 

Part of my sense of identity is rooted in my ideas about honesty, animalism, simplicity, carnality etc. That's why I want to project what I believe I am. I'm 33 years old and grr and hiss like a cat. I want my emotions to be honest, tangible. Although of course sometimes I don't, and then I control showing them which is dishonest and "complex" which makes me sick but I do it because I'm ashamed to have them or show them at that time. This is something I hate about myself and so I wish I were simple ALL the time. The thing I'm most ashamed of is my shame and that is what causes the 'complexity' or dishonesty that I don't like.


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## Ecoas (Jul 28, 2013)

2w3

just...how do you people?


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## MuChApArAdOx (Jan 24, 2011)

Animal said:


> I voted 6w5 and 6w7 hands down.
> 
> I don't know which is more enigmatic.
> 
> Every conversation with a 6 is a journey through a shifting maze. Some 6s are like a labyrinth. As I descend deeper into the quagmire of their minds in search of their hearts, I encounter traps along the way. I power through, dizzy and hungry and thirsty as I scrape myself back up and back up again. By the time I catch a glimpse of the prize I no longer have any skin left. I am not strong enough anymore to grasp it and before I can pull myself back, the maze shifts and the glory slips from my view. I _must_ persist. But how? I lack the power and alacrity to grasp so many shifting complex premises at once. In my effort to find my way to the center I have forgotten the way out. I don't even know who I am anymore.


Wow, I've never heard 6's described with such intensity. I know I"m complicated, this description certainly puts it into perspective. I didn't realize the complexity of a 6 could be such a puzzle for those trying to reach my center. Thanks for your input, now i have a better understanding how others view our complex mind .:blushed:


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## 0+n*1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Animal said:


> Well so far 9w1 is winning as the biggest enigma on this multiple choice poll, so I don't think you have anything to worry about
> 
> Part of my sense of identity is rooted in my ideas about honesty, animalism, simplicity, carnality etc. That's why I want to project what I believe I am. I'm 33 years old and grr and hiss like a cat. I want my emotions to be honest, tangible. Although of course sometimes I don't, and then I control showing them which is dishonest and "complex" which makes me sick but I do it because I'm ashamed to have them or show them at that time. This is something I hate about myself and so I wish I were simple ALL the time. The thing I'm most ashamed of is my shame and that is what causes the 'complexity' or dishonesty that I don't like.


 I am such a mystery, but to myself


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## d e c a d e n t (Apr 21, 2013)

Type 2 is kind of an interesting type. I'm not sure if I find it the greatest enigma, though, so much as they just seem so different to how I work. (Although I did briefly consider a 2-fix as well. =P)


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## meridannight (Nov 23, 2012)

Pushover said:


> There's gotta be something driving that intensity, right? *The intensity can't just be there for the sake of being there, can it? *I don't think I'll ever understand what goes through an 8's mind.


this is so cute. 

i have an intensity reservoir that hasn't gotten depleted yet. even my down-and-low times are intense.


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

Flatlander said:


> To answer my own question, I think if I were looking superficially at the types, I would most natively underestimate type 7. I've noticed that 7s can look to me like they lack a certain focus that, in my own life, gives me strength. I have to stretch myself in certain ways to honor their way of going about life and see it in terms of its own purpose.
> 
> The idea that some type is an enigma to you requires that every level of it, from the superficie to the depth, be opaque to you. The idea of a type being underestimated by you can point to your blind spot without you needing to lack understanding of the type, hence it isn't _completely_ an enigma. This might be especially useful to ask, then, for those people who say they do not see any enigmatic types: @_Cosmic Orgasm_.


I underestimate most people lol.


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## Animal (May 29, 2012)

MuChApArAdOx said:


> Wow, I've never heard 6's described with such intensity. I know I"m complicated, this description certainly puts it into perspective. I didn't realize the complexity of a 6 could be such a puzzle for those trying to reach my center. Thanks for your input, now i have a better understanding how others view our complex mind .:blushed:


I don't understand why 'intensity' is attributed to 5s and 8s while 6's exist? I mean. any person of any type can be 'intense' for various reasons but if I had to come up with one type who is most intense on the whole, 6 takes the cake hands down. You don't even have to know them well - I could find photos of everyone I know who is a 6 and their eyes are among the most intense you'll ever see. Their eyes are the calm in the center of an ever spinning storm that is their mind. It makes me angry that 6's are not described, in descriptions and books, as 'intense' while 8s and 5s and others are always given this descriptor. 'Complex' and 'cryptic' would be appropriate as well. Maybe people just don't understand mental intensity? I don't know. I realize that truly understanding a 6 in their entirety is beyond my capacity, and it was the hardest type for me to grasp in theory (and still is) as well as the hardest people in my life to grasp as a pattern, even if we're close or they trust me; but still, even without understanding someone in full, intensity is obvious.

Maybe it's because music is my first language that this is so obvious to me. If I had to type or archetype these singers or songs, I would type them at 6. A lot of bands with this intense type of wall of cyclical pounding thoughts, and brilliant, clever & desperate lyrics that sound like they're trying to break out of themselves have type 6 leads and composers. My brother drums with this kind of cyclical intensity too, and he's a 6 and this is why he adds so much 'rawr' to my music which is more like a waxing and waning emotional landscape of power ballads with slow but dramatic inclines.


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## d e c a d e n t (Apr 21, 2013)

@Animal
LOL, that makes me wonder. I'm not sure if I would describe myself as intense... Although I do worry about coming on too strongly with some people, but that's not the kind of intensity you talk of here (I don't think). =P Sounds like it would take a lot of energy to be that intense, which I don't feel like I have.


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

As far as intensity goes, you guys might consider temp states along with other factors to help explain why some people of one type may show intensity or be intense people while others not.


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## MuChApArAdOx (Jan 24, 2011)

Nonsense said:


> @Animal
> LOL, that makes me wonder. I'm not sure if I would describe myself as intense... Although I do worry about coming on too strongly with some people, but that's not the kind of intensity you talk of here (I don't think). =P Sounds like it would take a lot of energy to be that intense, which I don't feel like I have.


I don't feel like I come on strong with people, the intensity I display is unconscious. I don't notice the amount of energy, it comes naturally, and feels normal. It is something deeper internally. It feels much like a thunder storm within swirling around, constantly. It feels dark, hidden to only the person feeling it. My Fi might have something to do with this intensity also, so the combo of Fi -6 together is quite the rush. Most times it feels like I'm trapped in my own body, and when I do trust enough to let people in, it is overwhelming. I want people to see my core, yet at the same time there are so many layers to reach. Every 6 I know has a RAW center, so when and If you reach the center, emotions are very intense.


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## d e c a d e n t (Apr 21, 2013)

Flatlander said:


> As far as intensity goes, you guys might consider temp states along with other factors to help explain why some people of one type may show intensity or be intense people while others not.


Oh, meh. THat thing. I remember I said that I could see myself in all three descriptions, but then again, I suppose that's a bit of a contradiction when I also say that I lack the energy for intensity. Still, "explosive anger."



MuChApArAdOx said:


> I don't feel like I come on strong with people, the intensity I display is unconscious.


I didn't say or mean to imply that "feeling like I come on to strong to others" was a 6-thing. As I said, I didn't think that was the kind of thing @Animal was talking about. Which was why I said her comment made me wonder, because I don't fit her conception of what a 6 is like. Not that I HAVE to fit everyone's conception of what a type 6 is to be a type 6, but still I can't help but question.


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## Animal (May 29, 2012)

@Nonsense, if you could help but question, you wouldn't be a 6. 

No I'm kidding, it's human nature to question things.
I will write a longer answer later


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## d e c a d e n t (Apr 21, 2013)

Animal said:


> @ _Nonsense_, if you could help but question, you wouldn't be a 6.
> 
> No I'm kidding, *it's human nature to question things*.
> I will write a longer answer later


xD I would hope so, indeed.


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## MuChApArAdOx (Jan 24, 2011)

Nonsense said:


> Oh, meh. THat thing. I remember I said that I could see myself in all three descriptions, but then again, I suppose that's a bit of a contradiction when I also say that I lack the energy for intensity. Still, "explosive anger."
> 
> 
> I didn't say or mean to imply that "feeling like I come on to strong to others" was a 6-thing. As I said, I didn't think that was the kind of thing @Animal was talking about. Which was why I said her comment made me wonder, because I don't fit her conception of what a 6 is like. Not that I HAVE to fit everyone's conception of what a type 6 is to be a type 6, but still I can't help but question.


I knew without a doubt in my mind I was a 6 , even after reading all those bad descriptions. 6's tend to get a raw deal , I don't think everyone will totally grasp the concept, certainly not the way @Animal did. It was like she was in my head, my gut and reading my thoughts.

Perhaps you could do more research if you are questioning your type. We are individuals first, we won't all display the exact same behaviour regardless of our type . Although like our personality type, there will be many similarities that can't be denied. I see LOTS of similarities with myself and other 6's. When doing this research, I had to ask myself how a 6 applied to my reality, how i act, react and so on. Good luck finding a type you know without a doubt is you. It doesn't happen over night, patients, and MOST IMPORTANT, we have to be honest with ourselves. There are so many 6's out there that don't want to be a 6 because of how others perceive this type. Not me, I am who I am, it doesn't benefit me to be something I'm not, regardless of what others think


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## d e c a d e n t (Apr 21, 2013)

MuChApArAdOx said:


> I knew without a doubt in my mind I was a 6 , even after reading all those bad descriptions. 6's tend to get a raw deal , I don't think everyone will totally grasp the concept, certainly not the way @_Animal_ did. It was like she was in my head, my gut and reading my thoughts.


Yeah, I'm not having problems with bad descriptions. 



> We are individuals first, we won't all display the exact same behaviour regardless of our type


Really?


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

@Animal and I lust over some types. :blushed:
It's 6 and 4wX for her, and it's 1 and cp 6w5 for me. :blushed:
SO HAWT


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## d e c a d e n t (Apr 21, 2013)

Cosmic Orgasm said:


> @_Animal_ and I lust over some types. :blushed:
> It's 6 and 4wX for her, and it's 1 and cp 6w5 for me. :blushed:
> SO HAWT


I'm attracted to the concept of some types myself, though of course I figure not every person of that type is going to act in a way that is attractive to me.

(Which types? That's a secret, of course.)


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## Sixty Nein (Feb 13, 2011)

I understand the neurosis of the 2 type in an intellectual level, but I don't really get as to how one would form such a way of thinking about the world. Thinking of as something that you aren't really apart of, and that your will and the will of the world is rather different.

I just don't know. 3s confuse me a tad too, and I generally feel sorry for the type 3 and 8 types. Their particular neurosis to me sounds really pitiful to me, as if I want to hug them. Even if they probably wouldn't care at all at best.

I don't get why people find 9w1 so confusing. I think 9s are a pretty simple to grasp type but that's just me.


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## Curiously (Nov 7, 2011)

Cosmic Orgasm said:


> It's 6 and 4wX for her, and it's 1 and cp 6w5 for me. :blushed:
> SO HAWT


You'd totally lust over my sister. CP 6w5 with a major 1-fix. No wonder I had a feeling I liked you even though we hardly cross paths. I'm a major fan of my own sister! 

Yes, she is very hawt and real.


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## braided pain (Jul 6, 2012)

MuChApArAdOx said:


> I don't feel like I come on strong with people, the intensity I display is unconscious. I don't notice the amount of energy, it comes naturally, and feels normal. It is something deeper internally.* It feels much like a thunder storm within swirling around, constantly. It feels dark, hidden to only the person feeling it. *My Fi might have something to do with this intensity also, so the combo of Fi -6 together is quite the rush. Most times it feels like I'm trapped in my own body, and when I do trust enough to let people in, it is overwhelming. I want people to see my core, yet at the same time there are so many layers to reach. Every 6 I know has a RAW center, so when and If you reach the center, emotions are very intense.


This analogy is spot-on.


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## d e c a d e n t (Apr 21, 2013)

Sixty Nein said:


> I just don't know. 3s confuse me a tad too, and I generally feel sorry for the type 3 and 8 types. Their particular neurosis to me sounds really pitiful to me, as if I want to hug them. Even if they probably wouldn't care at all at best.


I'm amused by the thought of you trying to hug the 3s and 8s out of pity. 

But... yes.


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## Animal (May 29, 2012)

MuChApArAdOx said:


> I knew without a doubt in my mind I was a 6 , even after reading all those bad descriptions. 6's tend to get a raw deal , I don't think everyone will totally grasp the concept, certainly not the way @_Animal_ did. It was like she was in my head, my gut and reading my thoughts.


Aww  I am glad you felt that way. It makes me think I have more hope of understanding 6's than I thought ;D




> It feels much like a thunder storm within swirling around, constantly. It feels dark, hidden to only the person feeling it.


Oh wow.. I heard a similar analogy off forum today too. 
Does that mean that you can see the thunderstorm swirling around, but you can't see the center? It's obscure even to you?


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## Animal (May 29, 2012)

Also I am happy that 2w3 is winning here! That is a truly astounding type. I'm not sure if 'enigma' is the word I would use, but definitely one of the people in my life who blew my mind the most and who I learned the most from was 2w3.

I had a feeling a lot of people would vote 9w1 for enigma.


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## 0+n*1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Animal said:


> Also I am happy that 2w3 is winning here! That is a truly astounding type. I'm not sure if 'enigma' is the word I would use, but definitely one of the people in my life who blew my mind the most and who I learned the most from was 2w3.
> 
> I had a feeling a lot of people would vote 9w1 for enigma.


I think that 2 is the most misunderstood type as in the most perceived as a caricature of a human by the enneagram community, at least the online one. We tend to think that 6 really gets bad descriptions but I think we make greater efforts in understanding it and going beyond that. With 2, we barely see those things. I think that any person that can only be seen as its relationships with things outside of that person is just an unexplored land. I think 2s suffer from this depiction. Being 'The Helper' doesn't help. I think one of my closest friends is a 2 and she shows a lot of f


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## Animal (May 29, 2012)

Mr.Rbtoo said:


> I think that 2 is the most misunderstood type as in the most perceived as a caricature of a human by the enneagram community, at least the online one. We tend to think that 6 really gets bad descriptions but I think we make greater efforts in understanding it and going beyond that. With 2, we barely see those things. I think that any person that can only be seen as its relationships with things outside of that person is just an unexplored land. I think 2s suffer from this depiction. Being 'The Helper' doesn't help. I think one of my closest friends is a 2 and she shows a lot of f


Busting the Myths of the Enneagram People Pleaser: Type 2Wendy Appel


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## 0+n*1 (Sep 20, 2013)

I posted without finishing my sentence. My friend shows a lot of facets. (edit: well, who doesn't? that's why I refrained from posting it but I didn't erase it all)


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## EyesOpen (Apr 3, 2013)

4s for me..and maybe not necessarily 4s in and of themselves but how our interaction goes is more of the enigma. IRL they bring out an unholy level of passive aggressiveness in me. I can hardly control it...it's like I'm just watching myself do it (particularly my not wanting to give in at all to their apparent need for validation). At the same time, their emotionality is so foreign to my way of being that it is oddly fascinating...in a tension-filled way. My 4w5 friend and I openly discuss and laugh(sorta) at our differences. I definitely annoy her too. I have no other friendships that are so underpinned by this weird passive-aggressiveness. TBH, I typically drop friends if that is the dynamic. We do have common ground but not much. The whole thing just befuddles me lol


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## Chesire Tower (Jan 19, 2013)

bearotter said:


> As for 2, I've literally met the *insane* overly-helpful 2 only a few times, but each time I can only think "how does said individual exist".


Welcome to my world growing up.

:dry:


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## Aradella (Nov 11, 2013)

What does "Enigma" mean?


xNFJ // Enneagram 6 // Virgo // Generation X // Me


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

Nonsense said:


> I'm amused by the thought of you trying to hug the 3s and 8s out of pity.
> 
> But... yes.


ROFL :laughing:
Lofl... "we" could use some pity hugs. :blushed:


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## Sixty Nein (Feb 13, 2011)

Cosmic Orgasm said:


> ROFL :laughing:
> Lofl... "we" could use some pity hugs. :blushed:


To be honest, in your case I would just due it for the sake of being able to brag that I hugged the enigmatic, all powerful diety that is the Cosmic Orgasm.


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## DomNapoleon (Jan 21, 2012)

5w4: because of their over detached nature, they are so hard to reach and it intrigues me. On the other hand, they are competency type, and that makes me even more intrigued. I have no idea how they handle their emotions. 

9w8: because of the paradox of the wing 8. 

4w5: The ones I know are so bloody self-contained, reserved, and again, hard to reach.


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## d e c a d e n t (Apr 21, 2013)

Cosmic Orgasm said:


> ROFL :laughing:
> Lofl... "we" could use some pity hugs. :blushed:


You're not really an ATE or a three though? :tongue: So no hugs for you.


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## Quernus (Dec 8, 2011)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> *all image types:* why do you need the world to provide you with self worth? :laughing: the only heart type I'd say I really get is 4w3 (cuz of their flamboyant self expression and elitist attitude)


I don't know, that's like asking... Why do all head types need to always set up their mental focus in such a specific way, in order to function? 

It's not like I literally believe on a conceptual level that any external, contingent factor can affirm me. I'm aware this is inaccurate. But the emotional component persists. 

Image types struggle with maintaining an unwavering, default and solid sense of self and identity. It's a consistent need met with a persistent void. We lack it so we seek it.

I suppose head types struggle, similarly but instead, with maintaining options for "security" (which can mean many different things, but security is the opposite of fear). You lack an unwavering, default belief that you'll always be safe/autonomous/okay, so you persist in keeping your options available. Different head types do this in different ways, just as different image types seek to have personal significance in different ways...

Because I'm not a head type, I do not feel under constant threat of being trapped in pain, incompetence, or betrayal. Or whatever. I *trust *I'll be able to improvise or accept a challenge or whatever else, even if it's not ideal, in order to get through whatever I'm afraid of happening to me. So I don't organize my life around preventing these fears. Instead, as an image type, I feel under constant threat of being insignificant and worthless and alienated. So I organize my life around preventing such shameful things.

Any human needs security and autonomy, as well as social acceptance and purpose. But where I am confident in my ability to eventually deal with pain and uncertainty, I'm not confident in my ability to be lovable or unique without specific deciding factors in place. You may be confident in your ability to be lovable and unique, but not with your ability to deal with pain and uncertainty without specific deciding factors in place.


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## Quernus (Dec 8, 2011)

I find Eights enigmatic in the sense that I really have no idea what being an Eight must be like. My relationship to anger is so completely different than how an Eight's is supposed to be. I cannot FATHOM being so assertive over my space, the way an Eight is. I want to retreat hide, curl up into a ball when there is conflict... how in the WORLD can someone's reflexive response be instead to lash out or dominate? HOW? I guess a lot of it is my self-esteem issues, because as I work on those, it becomes easier to understand. But I still have a ton of work to do.

But I find healthy Eights very sexxxxyyyy.

It's funny, though. I'm also very opposite to Seven in many ways, but I can at least really conceptually understand why a Seven might do what they do. And I can at least relate to the overindulgence thing. I've also known more Sevens than Eights so that could be part of it. So they don't get my vote, though at one point they might have. I've become a bit disenchanted with them to be honest.

9w8 also intrigues, for reasons others have said. The whole paradoxical nature of the two combined. Whaaat makes a 9w8 tick, what compels them to react assertively vs. shut down. Since they can do both or either, depending.


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## Kabosu (Mar 31, 2012)

My own core, 6 - either we're pretty multi faceted or pretty contradictory or even both. I feel like few people in this same type are that much alike.

It's funny that people confuse cp6 and 8 because I feel the first paragraph is out for all to see in even the former.

8w9 and 9w8 seem like they should be at odds with each other.


I "understand" plenty of the others including the ones I clash with.


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## Pelopra (May 21, 2013)

I find the portrayals of sixes on this thread to be flattering =)

the type whose underlying motivation i find most difficult to understand is 4s. I don't understand the desperate belief in being different or the need to almost fetishize that. the experience of reading four descriptions is bizarre to me. like i'll almost start to "understand" the beginning of a description of some experience, like, okay, they feel left-out, but then there's a follow-through and the follow-through always feels unnatural and weird to me and my brain gets all twisty trying to make it make sense in a non-absurd fashion.

The type whose coping mechanism I find really tragic is 2s... rather than not understand (with 4), I do "understand" the underlying logic of the 2, I just don't actually relate to that feeling. The need to be needed, because otherwise you won't be loved...


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

now that I understand 2s and various subtypes better, I'm scratching 2 off the list and replacing it 
*1) Social 6:* I never understood people who cling hard and fast to rules/authority. that shit is so weird to me)
*2) Social 4:* so much woe-is-me bullshit, makes me want to vomit.


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## disguise (Jan 17, 2014)

For a 9w8 it's always a push and pull battle. You say what you want, but then pull it back from the predators before it's too late. I loved this one part of a 9w8 descriptions. Full of controversy, exactly like I see myself as:



> In healthy persons of this subtype, the Eight-wing adds an element of inner strength and willpower, as well as an expansive passionate quality to the overall style of personality. Despite their unselfconsciousness, healthy people of this subtype are able to assert themselves effectively; despite their graciousness and concern for others, they can be quite strong and forceful; despite their ability to subordinate themselves to others and to common goals they can be courageously independent; despite an easygoing manner, they can have formidable tempers, although these are rarely resorted to. Thus, healthy persons of this subtype, give the impression of strength and good nature, sensuality and power.


I believe a 9w8 is full of powerful bottled-up emotions they try to keep back because they despise conflict. They'd rather be on everyone's good side than make themselves be hated. For me it's is the guilt I feel when someone confronts me after I've asserted myself. When I am at my worse, it's as if my mindset was "I am always wrong, you are always right." I conform to this by making the confrontation justifiable. I find a flaw in myself and my thinking, and coward away. This could be one of the reasons for merging; you want to see the situation from the other persons view point. When you constantly suppress your own ideas, you start to have a need to find your identity from the outside instead of defining it yourself. At best I'll find a compromise, a way to stay on everyone's good side while being in charge of my own wants and needs as well.

Perhaps the strong inner emotional setting of a nine (wing eight) makes them so enigmatic in some people's eyes. Frankly, it is even hard for me to understand why I am not able to keep myself in check at times.

---

As for the poll, I voted 5s. The reasons for this are well explained all around this thread.


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## spiderfrommars (Feb 22, 2012)

The biggest enigma to me right now is 3s, not in the way I interact with them in real life but theoretically. I don't understand 3s deeply. Whenever I read a description of them, or read about their defense mechanisms or the type structure, I comprehend what it's basically saying, but it passes through me like water. I find myself asking--is that it? But what else is there to 3? 

I'm not saying 3 is a shallow type, but that I seem to understand it shallowly. Out of all the types, I seem to have the least complex picture for how it really feels on the inside, what the key concepts of it really mean. There's a block in my brain right now as I try to understand 3. I think it will erode over time.

I have this problem to a lesser extent with 7, but I have been learning more about that. Having a 7 character has been helpful, perhaps making a 3 character would help me understand 3 better.


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## Dosto Yevsky (Feb 9, 2014)

This one. Totally baffles me that people listen to him. The vids are watchable if you turn the sound off.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

I wish there was enough room for instinctual subtypes to be part of the poll, because I understand Social types about as well as I understand cunnelingus

@OP
9 and 3


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## Figure (Jun 22, 2011)

Flatlander said:


> Side note, @_Figure_ - you may think 5s don't work on improving themselves, but in a 5's own way, a 5 very well might. Self-improvement for the 5 is just, again, mental, not necessarily situational or physical or whatever else you were thinking. The vision of self-improvement that you'd find in a 5 in maintenance mode is likely to center around mental usage or development, i.e. becoming more competent at figuring out specific types of problems, knowing or understanding more about specific things, or advancing toward a specific learning goal.


Fair enough. It's not that I don't think mental development is self improvement. It is, and you're right, 5's do a lot of that and a lot of it very well. What I mean is, when a 5 is in a spot they don't like, what I don't see a lot of is active handling of the situation. There's a lot of thinking, a lot of reading, maybe some theorizing, but there isn't a push to change the situation that seems like the critical next step to me - but as you imply, our types overvalue different things, and for me, that's impetus, which I rarely see in 5's. When I DO see it in 5's, it's wonderful. But it is not frequent, and I don't understand why they don't feel they can do more. 

That's really my issue here. Birds have wings for a reason and I know 5's have their coping strategy for a reason, but I don't understand what that reason is. And yes, if we really need a summary here to bring me off the rant chair, it boils to me feeling stronger about the way something is, with less information, than 5's do, sometimes for the worse. 




> I'm surprised you're not complaining about 6s in a similar manner, but I suppose it's peculiar to your experience and 6s can be more of a toss-up here.


Oh, they piss me off more than 5's in real life make no mistake. When I am unhealthy with a 6 who is unhealthy, there's a major problem. The difference is that they don't appear to be as detached from reality and do not withdraw in the same way 5's do, so when there IS a problem, it's at least easier to cut to the chase and know what the subject matter of it is. Since we're talking about understanding, not complaining here, I do understand 6's but lol, I complain about them almost minutely when things go south.


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

Figure said:


> Fair enough. It's not that I don't think mental development is self improvement. It is, and you're right, 5's do a lot of that and a lot of it very well. What I mean is, when a 5 is in a spot they don't like, what I don't see a lot of is active handling of the situation. There's a lot of thinking, a lot of reading, maybe some theorizing, but there isn't a push to change the situation that seems like the critical next step to me - but as you imply, our types overvalue different things, and for me, that's impetus, which I rarely see in 5's. When I DO see it in 5's, it's wonderful. But it is not frequent, and *I don't understand why they don't feel they can do more. *
> 
> That's really my issue here. Birds have wings for a reason and I know 5's have their coping strategy for a reason, but I don't understand what that reason is. And yes, if we really need a summary here to bring me off the rant chair, it boils to me feeling stronger about the way something is, with less information, than 5's do, sometimes for the worse.


Sometimes it feels like there is no real reason for the bolded statement. It just is what it is. But if you really understood type 5, what would you do with the understanding? Would you seek to change the type?

Of course, it boils down to things the 5 faced in childhood and the way they were susceptible to them. I mean let's say you're an itty bitty fear type with a parental figure or two who just won't leave you alone. At all. You thought you made it clear you weren't interested in their interference - after all, doesn't everyone want exorbitant amounts of privacy to think, learn and grow as they will? You're not a gut type so you're not going to think in terms of assertion to maintain your boundaries. You're not an image type so you're not necessarily going to overtly rebel or respond in a relatable way. If you're a 7 perhaps you run away overtly, if you're a 6 perhaps you respond with something reactive. But if you're a 5, you retreat.

You retreat, you build your mind and your mental power and think about how you could overpower them but you don't feel confident to do so because every time you get out of your little mental world there they fucking are again, and they're so goddamn _real_. So you go back to your world and plan and think and grow into knowledge and understanding and try to go out again, but as soon as you get out into reality, again, there it all is. And ever since the last time everything changed, too. So you go back again and again and each time it pushes you further in. The only safety in the world is in your mind where everything's clear. It sure isn't with the invader which threatens your space. And it may not be with the world itself either, which has grown disparate from your mind.

So maybe you'll someday think you understand the exact right way to stop the invader in their tracks and ensure they'll never have a say in your life again. Until you think you get it, you probably won't move, because what use will your effort be? It won't do what you want it to. So rather, you will think about it until you understand, and then you will learn and learn, maybe you will strategize or plan eventually but you will always find something new you need to understand and the older, more direct motives will end up sublimated to the more conscious need to understand. But they'll essentially always be there anyway.

I don't seek to just have an impact. I don't seek to blindly respond to the world. I don't find the point of power in its exercise, and I don't want to act simply on frustration, though it does happen these days. It typically has to be personally chosen by me - when I really want something to happen, I set an endpoint and seek exactly what I think is necessary to get it there. Case in point - when I was a child, I thought I could stop my parents with nothing short of displaying telekinetic powers or forcing them to do things with my mind, so I sought exactly that and no less. That search took me places, but it never stopped my mother from sitting in my room to supervise me doing my homework for long hours after she got home from work so I couldn't get away with doing something else. I also got caught up in the ideas themselves and eventually semi-forgot my goal - it became vaguer, more simply oriented toward mental power and exercise of mind for myself, that's the sublimation. Granted, the mental agility I eventually accrued helped me controvert all those indirect ways my mother tried to remove anything that could distract me from my work while she was not _personally_ there.



> Oh, they piss me off more than 5's in real life make no mistake. When I am unhealthy with a 6 who is unhealthy, there's a major problem. The difference is that they don't appear to be as detached from reality and do not withdraw in the same way 5's do, so when there IS a problem, it's at least easier to cut to the chase and know what the subject matter of it is. Since we're talking about understanding, not complaining here, I do understand 6's but lol, I complain about them almost minutely when things go south.


Heh heh.


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## hal0hal0 (Sep 1, 2012)

Flatlander said:


> after all, doesn't everyone want exorbitant amounts of privacy to think, learn and grow as they will?


I call that my Marinatin' Time! My precious, precious marinating time. I also refer to it as my mental pillow fort.



Flatlander said:


> Sometimes it feels like there is no real reason for the bolded statement. It just is what it is. But if you really understood type 5, what would you do with the understanding? Would you seek to change the type?
> 
> Of course, it boils down to things the 5 faced in childhood and the way they were susceptible to them. I mean let's say you're an itty bitty fear type with a parental figure or two who just won't leave you alone. At all. You thought you made it clear you weren't interested in their interference - after all, doesn't everyone want exorbitant amounts of privacy to think, learn and grow as they will? You're not a gut type so you're not going to think in terms of assertion to maintain your boundaries. You're not an image type so you're not necessarily going to overtly rebel or respond in a relatable way. If you're a 7 perhaps you run away overtly, if you're a 6 perhaps you respond with something reactive. But if you're a 5, you retreat.
> 
> ...


This is a superb description of omniscience (at least that's the undercurrent I'm seeing). I relate to it quite a bit (to the point that I had considered 5 for a while). 

I am curious: Would you say 5s tend to feel overwhelmed a lot? I realize that other types like, say 6s, may feel overwhelmed as well, but the 5 response to feeling overwhelmed seems more classic (I suppose this might be a withdrawn thing... I doubt say, cp6 would think the 5 retreating as it does makes sense; I can see reason/logic behind both strategies, but personally, the 5's retreat seems more like a path I'd take.... if I were to put an archetype to it, perhaps the martial artist that retreats into the wilderness to hone his craft. 

The nature of omniscience or idealization of "knowledge is power" makes 5's competency focus really shine through, to the point that I think they can be even more classically perfectionist than type 1. I have always liked competency triaders, and among the harmonic triads, I tend to have the toughest time seeing the problems with those strategies of 1, 3 and 5. The reactive triad can seem like it has too many axes to grind (cp6 in particular) and the positive outlook seems like it can sweep things under the rug (I've always loved Naranjo's 7 description of "everything's OK" or "turns shit to cream" for 7).


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## Figure (Jun 22, 2011)

Flatlander said:


> Sometimes it feels like there is no real reason for the bolded statement. It just is what it is. But if you really understood type 5, what would you do with the understanding? Would you seek to change the type?


Of course! Which is part of the reason there is conflict to begin with. 

In all seriousness, for 1's the habit "is what it is" just as it is for 5's so of course an uninformed impulse will always be to not approve. However, being informed helps me change my opinions on the type instead of the type itself, which is probably better for both sides. 



> So maybe you'll someday think you understand the exact right way to stop the invader in their tracks and ensure they'll never have a say in your life again. Until you think you get it, you probably won't move, because what use will your effort be? It won't do what you want it to. So rather, you will think about it until you understand, and then you will learn and learn, maybe you will strategize or plan eventually but you will always find something new you need to understand and the older, more direct motives will end up sublimated to the more conscious need to understand. But they'll essentially always be there anyway.


This in particular is very helpful, thank you. 

It's very interesting to see how differently our types function, and I see this happens at the impulse level - what happens when you are confronted with something. This sounds a lot like the way a passion is described as holding the type structure itself in tact. Are you saying, here, that for 5 the habit of going back up into the head for understanding causes a perceived need of more understanding, which likewise perpetuates the type? 



> That search took me places, but it never stopped my mother from sitting in my room to supervise me doing my homework for long hours after she got home from work so I couldn't get away with doing something else. I also got caught up in the ideas themselves and eventually semi-forgot my goal - it became vaguer, more simply oriented toward mental power and exercise of mind for myself, that's the sublimation. Granted, the mental agility I eventually accrued helped me controvert all those indirect ways my mother tried to remove anything that could distract me from my work while she was not _personally_ there.


I'm sorry to hear you weren't given the space you deserved. Fuck that - seriously.


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

I have a difficult time responding o n my phone.  I'll do it later.


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

hal0hal0 said:


> I call that my Marinatin' Time! My precious, precious marinating time. I also refer to it as my mental pillow fort.


I like that. I don't get enough marinating time lately.



> This is a superb description of omniscience (at least that's the undercurrent I'm seeing). I relate to it quite a bit (to the point that I had considered 5 for a while).
> 
> I am curious: Would you say 5s tend to feel overwhelmed a lot? I realize that other types like, say 6s, may feel overwhelmed as well, but the 5 response to feeling overwhelmed seems more classic (I suppose this might be a withdrawn thing... I doubt say, cp6 would think the 5 retreating as it does makes sense; I can see reason/logic behind both strategies, but personally, the 5's retreat seems more like a path I'd take.... if I were to put an archetype to it, perhaps the martial artist that retreats into the wilderness to hone his craft.


Both 4 and 5 are withdrawing types, for sure. We have that in common.

I will say, for myself, I can easily feel overwhelmed. I think today's world comes with a lot of demands for just about anyone, but I just feel them all the more keenly because I live so firmly in my own head and a lot of them are so irrelevant to what I mentally or personally care about and thus feel like they drain me of something vital. I'm basically aware of every last thing that demands my energy and resources toward something extraneous, such as dealing with social or financial obligations or health issues. Up to a point, or with certain things I feel like I can handle, I can deal, but past that point, things may never get done. You can pile up more stuff on my plate but I won't respond. 

(Why is the human world so goddamn complicated? I really hate it sometimes.)



> The nature of omniscience or idealization of "knowledge is power" makes 5's competency focus really shine through, to the point that I think they can be even more classically perfectionist than type 1. I have always liked competency triaders, and among the harmonic triads, I tend to have the toughest time seeing the problems with those strategies of 1, 3 and 5. The reactive triad can seem like it has too many axes to grind (cp6 in particular) and the positive outlook seems like it can sweep things under the rug (I've always loved Naranjo's 7 description of "everything's OK" or "turns shit to cream" for 7).


I see the problems with my own strategy all too clearly now, but I didn't always. Of course, I always saw the "benefits", since it's my own life delusion. I also see the actually good points about my own mentality when I _do_ understand something.

I suppose you could call me perfectionist in a certain right. I don't feel the need to impose perfection on the world, but instead to refine my mind and its offshoots to a point. I must understand _correctly_ and _thoroughly_ (both to my own standard) to feel okay taking action.



Figure said:


> Of course! Which is part of the reason there is conflict to begin with.
> 
> In all seriousness, for 1's the habit "is what it is" just as it is for 5's so of course an uninformed impulse will always be to not approve. However, being informed helps me change my opinions on the type instead of the type itself, which is probably better for both sides.


Fair enough.



> This in particular is very helpful, thank you.
> 
> It's very interesting to see how differently our types function, and I see this happens at the impulse level - what happens when you are confronted with something. This sounds a lot like the way a passion is described as holding the type structure itself in tact. Are you saying, here, that for 5 the habit of going back up into the head for understanding causes a perceived need of more understanding, which likewise perpetuates the type?


Absolutely correct. That's at least half the story.

If you picture it like a figure 8, half of the 8 represents the world inside the mind, the other half represents the world outside of me, and that tiny little point in between is how we connect. 



> I'm sorry to hear you weren't given the space you deserved. Fuck that - seriously.


I appreciate the sentiment but dunno if it's space I really "deserved". I just wanted it, felt like I needed it, and had to kind of steal it for myself. Keep in mind that if you're sensitive to intrusion, it becomes a bigger or more personal deal than if you're not.


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## TaylorS (Jan 24, 2010)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> *9s:* I can't imagine being pissed off and trying to deny/hold it back (my anger is like a dragon bitch!). 9w8 especially baffles me (8 and 9 are such opposite types. seeing them in the same personality is bizarre)


9w1 here!

I was raised in a rather stereotypical "Minnesota Nice" environment where openly expressing one's anger and frustration is considered a social no-no, and so it often bubbles up as passive-aggressive behavior. In fact we have a saying here that "Minnesota Nice" is more like "Minnesota Passive-Aggressive"!

We 9s (or at leas 9w1s) tend to be very conflict-avoidant and fear that our anger will cause a scene and make people hate us. We are the stereotypical "genuinely nice to everyone" people.


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## Jaune (Jul 11, 2013)

Honestly, both wings of 2. Mainly because I really can't relate to 2, so it's kind of hard for me to understand those behaviors.

9 kind of confuses me as well.


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## JennyJukes (Jun 29, 2012)

3's and 4's. 


The unhealthy type 3's I know can be in such denial about their own shortcomings, project onto other people, not able to accept blame for something they did. For me I just can't imagine wanting to be in competition with others, I guess I'm that gross "everyone has their worth" type 2 so we go against each other, I know type 3's can think I lack ambition and goals.

As for unhealthy type 4's, well I think it's their tendency to close off and assume I can't understand them that gets me. I open up (often too much) to express my feelings whilst type 4's often close up so it creates frustration for me (and for them too).


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## Exy (Apr 26, 2018)

Perhaps 1. Like I admire your self-discipline and your constant search for perfection or whatever, but I just can't relate. At all. 5 and 8 too, to an extend. For all other types I can find something to relate to and see hints of them in myself, not for those three.


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## Brains (Jul 22, 2015)

Exy said:


> Perhaps 1. Like I admire your self-discipline and your constant search for perfection or whatever, but I just can't relate. At all. 5 and 8 too, to an extend. For all other types I can find something to relate to and see hints of them in myself, not for those three.


It's hard to relate when someone has a natural tug in one direction and you have it different. Ones are the highest-Conscientiousness type, Nines are low on it. 5 and 8, low on Agreeableness (actively/habitually putting weight on others' emotions in your decisionmaking, empathising etc.), Nines above average.


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## amongfirstslugs (Jun 23, 2012)

1s - The concern with appearing principled boggles my mind...I can understand how maintaining space perfectly can be a defense mechanism, but why is *seeming principled* to others a thing? What does it get you - do most people believe you or do you not care? How can you in good conscience act principled without being principled (when it's the case - obviously some 1s are principled!)? And isn't that kind of image-oriented rather than intuition-oriented? I guess this is more of a conceptual question I'm hoping to have answered? Also, do 1s actually convince themselves they are perfect and principled? I just can't figure out what is going on with them even though it seems like it should be so simple.

5s - Do you have emotions or do you not have emotions about the thing? 5s, bring something up and some of the emotions they experience around it are clear to me, but when I address it they act like they have no idea what I'm talking about ("Huh? I'm not angry! Anyway...RAWWRR!"). Do they actually not know or are they just not interested or what? I guess I could tap into my 5 head for this one, which is that emotions just don't seem relevant...but I still can't figure out if it is best to stop pushing them.

I'm honestly mostly bringing up the 5 because I'm having issues with a 5-friend. But my dad is also a 5 and I always found him very far-away; plus he is ISFP so it's Fi-dom and then unconcern with naming emotions. Strange to me.


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## Potatooesunshinerays (Dec 26, 2017)

The one that's on fire


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## Moo Rice (Apr 9, 2018)

Honestly, 4 and 7 are a big question mark to me, but mostly 4. I just don't relate to them, their relationship with emotions, their basic fear to have no identity... Very mysterious when I try to look at it from a non-systematic view.
With 7 is more related to their optimism, which is almost the opposite to how I am.


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## Full_fathom_4 (Jan 23, 2018)

7w8. Never got it, never will.


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## Dark Inferno (May 18, 2018)

9's for real ... :th_cool:


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## adumbrate (Feb 13, 2017)

9w8. They are so simple yet so complicated it's fascinating.


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## crazitaco (Apr 9, 2010)

8w9 just sounds like a walking contradiction to me tbh. I don't get it.


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## Hottest_Commie_Ever (Nov 11, 2015)

I don't know, i seem to understand most of them pretty well. In cognitive functions i KNOW that Ni is a complete mystery to me, but i've seen a lot of people from these enneagram types and i get their motivations/methods.

Maybe 8w9, because i just haven't met as many 8s as the other types and i don't have as much experience needed to understand them more deeply.


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