# Western Astrology as Spiritual Archetypes



## The Smiling Heart (Oct 12, 2019)

Mostly copied and pasted this thread from my previous post...

This thread discusses the zodiac signs as spiritual archetypes or personality auras. I am personally a Leo Sun, Virgo Moon and Scorpio Rising with Cancer in both Mars and Venus. I can relate to all of those signs except my Sun sign Leo. If we generalize enough we can make our astrology charts make sense but that all gets too technical for me. One thing I noticed is that Pisces is minimal in my whole chart but I feel Pisces, Virgo and a hint of Scorpio truly dominates my personality. I have always been lost in my own internal world of make-believe and am constantly falling in love with new versions of myself and new fantasies. Pisces and Neptune represent those rose-colored glasses that compel us to romanticize the mundane world and become spiritual receivers, or on the shadow side become those escapists who cannot separate reality from fantasy. Sounds a lot like me when you get to know me. 

To get to the point, I really appreciate the 12 signs as a kind of spiritual temperament system. We can have people of different core personality types with the same sign dominating. For example, as I have been especially interested in Pisces and ruling planet Neptune as spiritual guides, I have noted certain fictional characters with whom I have naturally loved as sharing certain Piscean traits. Donnie Darko (INTP I'd guess), that weird mental dude in American Beauty (IxxP I guess), Pheonix's new 2019 Joker (xNFP I'd guess) and plenty of INFx characters in those especially dream-like fantasy movies (think Spirited Away; xNFP protagonist I guess). Whether genuinely compassionate and empathetic to their environment (consisting of other people and surroundings) or just lost in their own world of fantasy and illusion, Pisces could be seen as a kind of demon that possesses these characters' energy. I am more or less rambling because I had one too many drinks but I will organize a better case for myself soon. I find astrology fascinating but only because I see the 12 signs as archetypes: 

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This image really helps me explain those certain roles. The specific characters I mentioned could be attributed as Dreamers, Poets, Visionaries, or Psychotics in some way or another. Oh, and let us mention Pete (played by Mike Myers) in the film Pete's Meteor. I am using recent and memorable films for this post. I am sure there are far better examples. But I am tired of people using their sun signs in shallow examples, like, oh I am stubborn I am such a Taurus! In reality they are just annoying and could easily be any other sign. 

So to touch up I fancy the 12 signs as energies that drive any character's lives. their is a combination of all 12 but one most likely dominates. Characters of different MBTI types can have the same dominant Zodiac energy therefore, and each lives their own agenda. Two lions might seem like Leos but one has the Pisces archetype of Mystic and the other has the Scorpio archetype of Rogue (Scar, you sly devil). And furthermore on Scorpio energy, Rorschach from the Watchmen film/comics I can totally see. He is brutally truth-seeking and threatens the villain's plan for world peace just to expose the truth. Even Dr. Manhattan (INTP; Aquarius I feel) gives in to maintain the peace that was achieved from so much bloodshed. But the Scorpio in Rorschach determines to never compromise and is total edge-lord about it. We also have INTJ villains who can fit into Scorpio if not Virgo energies. 

Yep, archetypes I really wish I have found a personality system similar enough to the Western personality stereotypes of the 12 Zodiac signs because I especially am interesting in researching Pisces and Scorpio. So if any of you have found anything similar please let me know. Some more interesting and unique takes on the signs: 

Primal Zodiac Signs By Combination (Western + Eastern)


Adds 12 deviations to each zodiac sign with appropriate animal symbols. 


The Extended Zodiac


Also interesting.


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## ChocStar (Jan 24, 2020)

You are too conscious of it being make-believe and falling in love with new fantasies. If you were really a Pisces, trust me, you'd actually think the things were happening. A million years of college haven't been sufficient to shake my belief that the dead are speaking to me. 

Constantly falling in love with new versions of yourself does sound very Leo - the dramatic performer, artist, actor - conscious forms of creation. Of course the Scorpio and Cancer in your chart will give you a sense of other worlds, all water signs do. 

I don't think Lester from American Beauty is a "weird mental dude" either. That's a really juvenile and amateurish assessment of his character. He's probably an ISFP. 

Donnie Darko is definitely a Piscean character, and is commonly typed as INTP. There's always the lingering question in Donnie Darko if it was imagined or psychic, I've never been fully convinced that Donnie Darko wasn't meant to make us question dimensions of reality.

The Joker seems pretty Scorpio to me. Joaquin Phoenix is literally a Scorpio. Just saying.

I've never seen these more complex readings of the Zodiac, but I'm not sure it's worth all the effort. Unless I want a new money-making hustle, which I do. Hmmm.


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## The Smiling Heart (Oct 12, 2019)

@ChocStar

Haha, well back off my new money-making new age mystic bs scheme. Yeah, that actually does bring insight into myself, about being conscious of my conditions and fantasies. And I have noticed that the purpose of my spiritual desires are defeated once the scientist in me starts trying to break it all down. But I far from realistic and practical, so that INTP theoretical suit fits me well. But I always felt myself more a feeler--really it just depends on the mood. Sometimes I wake up feeling entirely like another person. And it can all snap back in an hour. I have tried to justify Leo as my sun sign in the sense that I am always trying to decide who I am which could be seen as an actor in the limelight, only the audience is the unseen cosmos at play because people are not my safe place. But that is where I say that we can justify astrology in our lives in many ways. So I am trying to determine the kind of energy the Leo spirit would present in a person. 

So moving beyond my little self-analysis, I have come across a variety of threads that analyse the 12 signs in a more spiritual sense and found pretty neat things that have thus inspired me. But indeed nobody has created something conclusive about it and well, astrology falls into open discussion. I am still trying to understand what exactly the 12 archetypes are. And for example, a poet could exist differently in all 12 signs even though he is a poet but not necessarily a true poet archetype in these sense of being an artist or speaker for humanity. Perhaps he is more as a scientist in some Aquarian way or a truth seeker of sorts in a Scorpio way, obsessing on an idea and really digging in. I do not really know, and I am not one to develop my ideas through nowadays, as I get distracted and caught up with new ideas. But ultimately I am trying to find the one image or archetype that defines who I am. And I do know that life changes. That is life, to live and to live is to change. 

On the new Joker, I can see a bit of Scorpio in him with the neurotic obsessiveness but he is certainly lost in an imaginary world that he cannot separate from reality and that speaks Pisces to me. But is that to say that mental illness and psychotic episodes can be attributed to a sign? I do not believe so but his fantasies and wild imagination strike me more as the mutable, water sign of Pisces than the fixed sign of Scorpio. But I am still trying to solidify my ideas. And about the weird mental dude, I was not exactly being serious. He does have a mental issue of some sort, that is clear. But I was reflecting the common impression of him by the "popular" girl. Popular in her class and group that is. I know quite well Lester is a jewel. I just could not remember his name and did not intend to.

Thank you for the feedback. Any other notions, perspectives or disagreements really help. But I am trying to find that one thing. Something to shake my beliefs and thoughts once more. Donnie Darko was one of the earlier films to have influenced me in such a way. Dark City was another interesting movie. And watching Hereditary, chillingly strange in the first half of film. And Submarine the weird movie about Oliver Tate. I'd love to see a personality analysis on that one but I cannot find one. I love Indie films.


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## ChocStar (Jan 24, 2020)

Lester isn't meant to be mentally ill in any way. He's sick of American corporate bullshit. His wife represents this kind of structural socio-political falsehood (she even cheats on him) while he seeks authenticity. He wants to recover his youth because he feels disconnected from what is real. His wife rejects him, so he fantasizes about a young girl, but is sane enough to do the right thing when she offers herself to him he declines and protects her instead. He starts working in fast food because he's so sick of "the grind" and just wants to feel free and human like he did as a young person before he was trapped by a big house and cars and a fake marriage. We can rejoice in Lester's reconnection to his true self, his authenticity and his youth, because he randomly dies at the end at so relatively young of an age, by no fault of his own. There are no mentally ill people in American Beauty except the guy who shoots Lester.


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## The Smiling Heart (Oct 12, 2019)

@ChocStar

Oh actually I am talking about Ricky Fitts not Lester. I suppose it is worth the time to look up names. I completely agree with your analysis about Lester. Ricky's father murders Lester, and like his son has some issues. But he (the father) is completely unhinged at the end after being rejected once he confronts his long-denied nature. Ricky Fitts is a beautiful character who after snapping one day at school and being hospitalized becomes this strange character who finds beauty in everything. And when he finds Lester dead he just kind of says, "Wow," and stares at the corpse thinking who knows what. Just finding beauty in it I suppose. I feel a lot of Pisces and Scorpio in Ricky Fitts.


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