# Need some info on sx/so blind-spots.



## Shadowlight (Dec 12, 2012)

I found this on the sp blind-spot: 



> SP blind spot - lack of solid foundation, lack in comfort and coziness, lack in attention to health, maintenance, and personal safety. Such individuals often have a hard time focusing on issues such as financial security or the commitment to the development of practical skills. There is fear is of being an "eternal child" who won’t take care of one-self and expectation of failure in dealing with self-preservation matters. At the same time these people tend to look down on SP-domain and may express cynicism towards it e.g. call it "fearful" and "fussy", state that SP people "don’t know how to really live". When the instinct for self-preservation is last in the instinctual stacking, the individual will often be somewhat ungrounded or seemingly "immature." The more extraverted SP-last individuals often find it difficult to develop a degree of “inwardness.”


http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/content.php/133-Instinctual-Stackings

I was wondering if other sx/so types have had similar experiences in life.

Other articles and links would be infinitely helpful.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Yes. I have the "eternal child" fear, and think people who are SP dom don't really know how to live at the same time. 

While I don't have a problem focusing on my health at all, I have a problem with creating my stability, or maintaining stability, like I can always justify a reason why it's more important for me to have xyz experience or my freedom or not have to abide _____ and I'll sacrifice stability in order to have those things, it's one of the first things I'll put up on the table.

I like comfort and sensuality though, and I'm not completely divorced from my physical self-care or anything, in fact when I was on another web site I found that in some ways to be why I questioned I might not be an NF, not anything to do with enneagram variant. I do not forget the physical self, to the contrary I am affected by my physical environment.

I am also really bored by the idea of saving money unless I have a lot of it to save. I really would like to have a nice SJ to take care of all that or something.

It's one point where I am unapologetically a disgrace. I want a man who wants to feel useful. Want to feel useful sweetie? Want to feel that feeling you're complaining about missing because women don't need you anymore? I need you baby. Come balance my checking account and show me how to invest in stocks and CDs.


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## Shadowlight (Dec 12, 2012)

fourtines said:


> Yes. I have the "eternal child" fear, and think people who are SP dom don't really know how to live at the same time.
> 
> While I don't have a problem focusing on my health at all, I have a problem with creating my stability, or maintaining stability, like I can always justify a reason why it's more important for me to have xyz experience or my freedom or not have to abide _____ and I'll sacrifice stability in order to have those things, it's one of the first things I'll put up on the table.
> 
> ...


I personally have issues with maintaining my personal health and living surroundings. I even forget to eat at times and takes me longer to realize that I'm actually hungry. I have no specific preferences for any types of foods or restauraunts. I go whereever my best-friend and family go and still enjoy the experience because I prefer to talk when I'm out. 

However, I don't have problems with saving, or having money for a rainy day. I usually just sacrifice my immediate needs for the future and live like a miser when the going gets rough. But I do chase after intense experiences. For me these experiences are mostly around information/knowledge seeking and analysis of systems which then I share with my best friend. I can continue obsessing over a new system till I'm absolutely exhausted and crash to sleep and then I wake up and go to work without even bothering to make my bed. Sometimes forget to shut off the lights. 

Paying bills and maintaining a house on my own may be an issue for me. It's something I experienced for a short time and I ended up not doing dishes for a month. When I finally ran out of clean plates is when I had to do all the dishes  

That said, I wonder if any of this has anything to do with sp blindspots.


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## Dark Romantic (Dec 27, 2011)

The Sp blindspot is basically a lack of any desire to conserve. This applies to saving money, food, holding thoughts back (this is where the all-or-nothing relating style comes into play), even, at its most extreme, neglecting to take care of matters of personal health, because of the need to keep pressing the energy and going as far as possible with it. It's like being on a permanent coke binge; if you can keep partying (moving forward with the energy), why save any for later and stop the rush?


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## OrangeAppled (Jun 26, 2009)

They always make sp-dom sound like sp 6s or sp 1s or something. It's only when described within the 4 type that it really resonates. I wonder how many people are really sp first or second that don't realize it because of this...

I actually fear being an "eternal child" because it's important to me to be independent. I just want control over my own survival and needs. This doesn't equal "stability" for me. In fact, stability can feel suffocating to me. I don't like to hand over that control to an employer or an SO. Practicality, safety, health, etc, none of that concerns me much. I forget to eat all the time too...a lot of that is being an NP (poor Si, general absent-mindedness, etc).


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## Shadowlight (Dec 12, 2012)

Dark Romantic said:


> The Sp blindspot is basically a lack of any desire to conserve. This applies to saving money, food, holding thoughts back (this is where the all-or-nothing relating style comes into play), even, at its most extreme, neglecting to take care of matters of personal health, because of the need to keep pressing the energy and going as far as possible with it. It's like being on a permanent coke binge; if you can keep partying (moving forward with the energy), why save any for later and stop the rush?


What about NP vs IJ differences here? I definitely save for later but I'm still not sure if that makes me an sp-first/second/last - because when I do have the "extra" cash above a certain savings level I've determined for myself, I don't have any quips spending it. 

I love to budget and make budgets and can be fairly goal/task-oriented because anything less would go against my view of myself as competent. It reflects poorly on my self-confidence if my organization skills are called into question at work - plus I'm sure Te plays a factor in this because organization just comes naturally to me so I systematize certain aspects of my life to a limit.


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

Shadowlight said:


> I found this on the sp blind-spot:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 OMG, you could have not explained me any better. 

I am like an adult child. I don't default to any of those sp concerns above. When I do pay attention to them it's because it will bring me closer to my mate or because I'm copying my mate who may have some form of sp instinct. However, most people have more sp instinct than me.

Things like budgeting or conserving scare me. Putting my focus on those things drains an intense amount of energy from me. But I do these things if they bring me closer to a mate.



Shadowlight said:


> What about NP vs IJ differences here? I definitely save for later but I'm still not sure if that makes me an sp-first/second/last - because when I do have the "extra" cash above a certain savings level I've determined for myself, I don't have any quips spending it.
> 
> I love to budget and make budgets and can be fairly goal/task-oriented because anything less would go against my view of myself as competent. It reflects poorly on my self-confidence if my organization skills are called into question at work - plus I'm sure Te plays a factor in this because organization just comes naturally to me so I systematize certain aspects of my life to a limit.


You sound _nothing_ like me. I get way more pride being unconventional and am able to forgive myself easily if I'm not like how you stated above.


I'm in a relationship with an ISTJ now. He is sx/sp E9. He takes care of much more things around him than I do. But I'm learning. 

He will be hard on himself and tell me that he "procrastinates" and things like that, but it's no where near to the level that I do. He is just voicing out his opinion of himself and not really stating who he really is objectively.

And the instinctual cleaning thing, the recycling thing (follow through to take the bottles in), the savings thing, the scheduling thing, even the intensive research he did to figure out that I was his perfect match, is entirely not like me. 

He is like me in that he submerges himself into me and fusion is his top priority. And we go extremely deep. But where we differ big time how we are when each of us is under stress- I will become extremely playful and reach outward. However, when he is stressed, he will dive more deeply into sp concerns and tasks.


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## Dark Romantic (Dec 27, 2011)

Shadowlight said:


> What about NP vs IJ differences here? I definitely save for later but I'm still not sure if that makes me an sp-first/second/last - because when I do have the "extra" cash above a certain savings level I've determined for myself, I don't have any quips spending it.


I don't think that saving money and budgeting necessarily mean that you're Sp first; that's just an outward manifestation of the energetic flow that we call "self preservation" in enneagrammatic terms. The self preservation instinct is about conservational energy; energy that grounds, keeps things still, and keeps your personal state in equilibrium. Sp last types don't have that grounding, conserving impetus; to them, being forced to conserve their energy is like telling someone to have half an orgasm and save the other half for later. Because Sx types are the most energy attuned, Sx/So people are the most concerned with propelling themselves nonstop through a train of energy until they completely run out. This can apply to anything where they gain energy, but the cost of this constant forward propulsion is that things which would slow the person down and keep them within reasonable limits are ignored until they absolutely must be attended to.

So in your case, if you're saving money because you need to have a certain amount to survive, that alone wouldn't make you Sp first.



> I love to budget and make budgets and can be fairly goal/task-oriented because anything less would go against my view of myself as competent. It reflects poorly on my self-confidence if my organization skills are called into question at work - plus I'm sure Te plays a factor in this because organization just comes naturally to me so I systematize certain aspects of my life to a limit.


Yeah, organizing and systematizing wouldn't make you Sp dom or second. Neither does budgeting. I think of Sp first as being like investing in land, while Sp last is like trying to make it big in Vegas. One investment grows slowly, but is likely to turn a profit if you keep it well maintained, the other is all or nothing, might win you big, but also very likely to have you crash and burn from following the rush for too long.


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## Shadowlight (Dec 12, 2012)

Dark Romantic said:


> I don't think that saving money and budgeting necessarily mean that you're Sp first; that's just an outward manifestation of the energetic flow that we call "self preservation" in enneagrammatic terms. The self preservation instinct is about conservational energy; energy that grounds, keeps things still, and keeps your personal state in equilibrium. Sp last types don't have that grounding, conserving impetus; to them, being forced to conserve their energy is like telling someone to have half an orgasm and save the other half for later. Because Sx types are the most energy attuned, Sx/So people are the most concerned with propelling themselves nonstop through a train of energy until they completely run out. This can apply to anything where they gain energy, but the cost of this constant forward propulsion is that things which would slow the person down and keep them within reasonable limits are ignored until they absolutely must be attended to.
> 
> So in your case, if you're saving money because you need to have a certain amount to survive, that alone wouldn't make you Sp first.


This makes me wonder if the standard descriptions of the 5 are skewed towards sp-first or at least second because there's a lot of talk about energy conservation / allocation there. I do do it to a certain extent, but honestly, I would rather not. I sleep 4-6 hours on average and at times I've expressed my hatred for sleeping as a whole. If my body didn't collapse as often as it does, I'd continue reading and doing things that I like to do. 



> Yeah, organizing and systematizing wouldn't make you Sp dom or second. Neither does budgeting. I think of Sp first as being like investing in land, while Sp last is like trying to make it big in Vegas. One investment grows slowly, but is likely to turn a profit if you keep it well maintained, the other is all or nothing, might win you big, but also very likely to have you crash and burn from following the rush for too long.


​
I know you're just using this as an example, but this speaks volumes of my relationship with my father. He invests in secure assets (he's a Type 3 ENTJ sp-dom from what I can tell) and is constantly hounding me to do the same. Whereas, I would much rather "invest" in a business venture of my own. I just haven't found the right one based on my competence and expertise just yet - but I'm very close to that point where I buckle down and start something.


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

Dark Romantic said:


> I don't think that saving money and budgeting necessarily mean that you're Sp first; that's just an outward manifestation of the energetic flow that we call "self preservation" in enneagrammatic terms. The self preservation instinct is about conservational energy; energy that grounds, keeps things still, and keeps your personal state in equilibrium. Sp last types don't have that grounding, conserving impetus; to them, being forced to conserve their energy is like telling someone to have half an orgasm and save the other half for later. Because Sx types are the most energy attuned, Sx/So people are the most concerned with propelling themselves nonstop through a train of energy until they completely run out.


There are people out there (most people imo) who will "go to bed early" because they "have a big day tomorrow". This has always blown my mind. When I have a "big day" the next day, I will probably get less sleep due to the excitement. The night before I ran my first 50 miler, I got 2 hours sleep and I drank a few beers. I don't understand how people can just sleep and _even go to bed early because of their big day._ I'm way too excited and have to suck every last ounce out of the night before I have a big day.

My ex husband used to say he wished he had some sort of bazooka for me. Some type of huge gun that might shoot me with a tranquilizer so it finally "takes me down". He would say that I was amazing. He told me that I don't drop and let go of life (or awake mode) unless sleep absolutely kicks my ass and it stops me dead in my tracks. He said that I will go on and on until I'm finally taken down by it.

I guess I just fight deadness. That is what it feels like to me. I like to live life to it's fullness until something proves it can take me down and make me like those "other people" who can just sit there and relax. I'm pretty sure it's why I don't just run, I _marathon._ And I don't just marathon, I _ultra marathon._ These things are extreme and alive. They don't require nap time and they push me to my limits.

Sleep is hell for me. Well... it's at least death. Succumbing to sleep proves that I've lost the battle.

But I _can_ go to bed if it means I am one with my partner who also does so. (I'm also a 6). Rock me gently to my deathbed (sleep), I will go there more easily if it means I will become one with my partner.


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## Shadowlight (Dec 12, 2012)

pinkrasputin said:


> You sound _nothing_ like me. I get way more pride being unconventional and am able to forgive myself easily if I'm not like how you stated above.


That's ok. I honestly wouldn't expect to relate completely with individuals that have different MBTI and E-types. There are cognitive differences here to take into account as well which do influence behaviour to a certain degree. 

---

Relational typing wasn't my motive for this thread. As I've stated before in this section, I'm trying to see how the descriptions transfer to real life and people's experiences are the best way to see where the descriptions really fit and where they don't. 

I am primarily looking to read as much as I can about people's personal experiences and try to see if I relate to the overall gist of the sx/so type versus the sx/sp type. So far, the things I've noticed are:


 Sx energy is something that's a strong driving force which is something I definitely experience. When it comes to interests, hobbies, certain friends, I do have quite a lot of energy and enthusiasm and can become quite self-negligent.
 The all or nothing vibe is something that I've seen spoken about for both sx/sp and sx/so types. sx/sp with regards to their partner and merging, and sx/so for their individuality and even freedom. sx/so's may even want some degree of freedom from their partners. In my case, I want freedom from my friends from time to time in order to withdraw and pursue my own interests. The energy level remains high. It's just allocated from one source to another.
 so and therefore all manners of so-types are keenly interested in things like social dynamics and politics as well? Perhaps sx/so not as much as so/sp, so/sx. In my case, this is definitely true. Most of the times my interests are developed through those of my friends. As in, a close friend would bring something up and I would feel an instant urge to take up that interest and research on it so that I can continue to merge with my friend and then most of this information and knowledge is then transferred to my closest intimate in a lengthy period of energetic sharing. I've been told that when I'm sharing, I am "draining" by some of my friends. I do this from the point of view of developing my own interpretations about social systems and structures. I tend to see and observe > reflect > write and or make a mental note of what I've learnt.

I'm not completely sure just yet because there's very little on the Type 5w4 sx/so except many people calling it the radical which is definitely something I relate to. This is a description I found and I'm posting it here: 



> 5w4 sx/so "Revolution" contributed by jase
> 
> The most creatively energized and outspoken of Fives, they conceive of outlandish and idealistic alternatives to a reality they find deeply unfulfilling for the most part, and like to exhibit these radical visions, possibly through an art form if not through direct advocacy. Many sx/soc 5w4's are responsible for revolutionizing their creative fields, for better or worse. They aren't always comfortable in the visionary roles they might find themselves in, and may escape to extended periods of withdrawal to regain a sense of independence and security. This kind of retreat can surprise those who have mistaken them for a more conventionally driven, extroverted personality.


I don't know who wrote this description, but a lot of it makes a lot of sense to me. I think @_OrangeAppled_ had a very valid point about looking at the instinctual variants through ones own type as opposed to trying to be too general. I'm going to get more specific in my research.

Edit: Slightly OT - Can someone tell me if Sandra Maitri's book covers instinctual subtypes for each type before I invest in it? Thanks.


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## doublerainbows (Feb 9, 2011)

Shadowlight said:


> I found this on the sp blind-spot:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What an uncharitable view on the sx/so. I agree with everything.


(This is where coping skills come into play. There really isn't a way to maintain a healthy adult life as an sx/so without compensating for the areas this orientation leaves exposed. And agreed about it being like an addiction. I'd be interested in studies on how many of us wind up with sp-doms. Quite a few, I'd imagine. Lucky souls.)


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## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

> *SP blind spot* - lack of solid foundation, lack in comfort and coziness,* lack in attention to health, maintenance, and personal safety. Such individuals often have a hard time focusing on issues such as financial security or the commitment to the development of practical skills. There is fear is of being an "eternal child" who won’t take care of one-self and expectation of failure in dealing with self-preservation matters.* *At the same time these people tend to look down on SP-domain and may express cynicism towards it e.g. call it "fearful" and "fussy", state that SP people "don’t know how to really live". When the instinct for self-preservation is last in the instinctual stacking, the individual will often be somewhat ungrounded or seemingly "immature."* The more extraverted SP-last individuals often find it difficult to develop a degree of “inwardness.”


I agree with all of the bolded. 

I do have a tendency to neglect my health, but I'm trying to pay more attention. It's certainly not innate, but something I can learn to grasp, especially from living with two SP parents. They pushed me to flex that SP blindspot, to pay attention to these areas because soon, no one else is going to do that for me.

The immature part made a lot of sense. My parents would call me that all the time, because I had no sense of personal responsibility and only cared about having fun without really considering the consequences. I would lose my stuff all the time, didn't really care about money (still don't), I would spend hours doing what I liked in favor of the things I had to do. It always baffled me when they saw me that way, because to me maturity was about other things.

*One thing I cannot, will not, ever relate to though: Forgetting to eat, drink & sleep for an entire day, or even days. No way. I am still human. I actually even adore food and can be quite picky in that area. I have a very refined taste, lol. I also get ridiculously excited when there's something yummy in the near future. *

Another thing that contradicts my SP-lastness is how appreciative I can be of a room's atmosphere, which I suspect is a HSP thing. I have a preference for a certain type of surroundings, such as dim lights, warm colors, comfort, quiet (noise irks me). I also get really irritated/upset when the room temperature is not ideal, and I can't concentrate anymore.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Shadowlight said:


> What about NP vs IJ differences here? I definitely save for later but I'm still not sure if that makes me an sp-first/second/last - because when I do have the "extra" cash above a certain savings level I've determined for myself, I don't have any quips spending it.
> 
> I love to budget and make budgets and can be fairly goal/task-oriented because anything less would go against my view of myself as competent. It reflects poorly on my self-confidence if my organization skills are called into question at work - plus I'm sure Te plays a factor in this because organization just comes naturally to me so I systematize certain aspects of my life to a limit.


The good news here is that my options have expanded from helpful SJs to INTJs as well apparently. I'll just find one like you (um, a man person of course, not literally just like you) to save money, and I'll make him delicious food so that he'll remember to eat.

For me what it sounds like it that you are sp last, but that you are also strong in Te and rejecting Se. 

As an ISFP I am the opposite, so I would be stronger in Se (remembering to feed myself and even doing it rather well) but terrible at organization/planning involving fiscal savings, it sounds like torture to me (rejecting Te).

So probably sp last manifests differently in different personality types.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

kaleidoscope said:


> I agree with all of the bolded.
> 
> I do have a tendency to neglect my health, but I'm trying to pay more attention. It's certainly not innate, but something I can learn to grasp, especially from living with two SP parents. They pushed me to flex that SP blindspot, to pay attention to these areas because soon, no one else is going to do that for me.
> 
> ...


You sound like me. I even like for my sheets to be certain colors, like soft pastels.

Except I like money. Money is my friend. I just don't like saving/planning and all that garbage. I don't even have a bank account. I just resist that whole Te world, I know I need it, but I don't want to be the person to do those things I really don't even have the energy to worry about those kinds of things. I guess I could if I were wealthy though I could hire an accountant.


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## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

fourtines said:


> You sound like me. I even like for my sheets to be certain colors, like soft pastels.
> 
> Except I like money. Money is my friend. I just don't like saving/planning and all that garbage. I don't even have a bank account. I just resist that whole Te world, I know I need it, but I don't want to be the person to do those things I really don't even have the energy to worry about those kinds of things. I guess I could if I were wealthy though I could hire an accountant.


I'm not surprised, I relate to your posts a lot ^^

When I say I don't care about money, I mean by that mostly long term plans, saving up, etc. I like money because it's my way of getting what I want - good books, good food, good movies, good music. It's directly tied to my enjoyment & hobbies, but I don't really see beyond that.


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## Shadowlight (Dec 12, 2012)

kaleidoscope said:


> I like money because it's my way of getting what I want


^^ That is what I do. However, the way I do it is different. As opposed to going for what I want in the moment, I save up and go for that one big thing that brings me the most pleasure. E.G. I currently have my heart set on a new phone that I really like. I can afford it with one full paycheck after I pay everything else and some of my savings, but I've decided to wait for the next one to get it so I can save some money still for the next big purchase down the line. 

@_fourtines_, I think you're right about the suppression of Se and insightful on how different variants may influence people of different CF types. This is something I would like to get into next.

Honestly, I would definitely, definitely like to be a more in the moment kind of person. My friends mostly are Se and Fe types so they do pull me out of my head once in a while. But even then, I have my limits of extroverted energy. I don't always need to retreat based on energy alone. It's just that usually I have some private interests that I'm in the midst of that I don't want to neglect either. For example, recently I've become interested in one of the tasks I do at work, so my hangouts are pretty much .. umm .. none in a month. Oops. Woah. I haven't done anything except work since.

I find myself working late nights at home and inadvertently ignoring my friends and other needs not because I'm required to meet a deadline, but because I'm so damned interested in what I'm doing. If my mom wasn't around to cook for me and literally bring food to my desk at times, I'd probably be living on cereal and water.


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## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

Shadowlight said:


> ^^ That is what I do. However, the way I do it is different. As opposed to going for what I want in the moment, I save up and go for that one big thing that brings me the most pleasure.


I'm an immediate gratification kind of gal, but occasionally, I can really enjoy saving up to get something I've been obsessed with for a while. I actually _love_ the rush and anticipation I can experience from waiting.


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## Mizmar (Aug 12, 2009)

kaleidoscope said:


> I agree with all of the bolded.


I would have bolded most of the same things you did.

On the other hand:



Dark Romantic said:


> The self preservation instinct is about conservational energy; energy that grounds, keeps things still, and keeps your personal state in equilibrium. Sp last types don't have that grounding, conserving impetus; to them, being forced to conserve their energy is like telling someone to have half an orgasm and save the other half for later. Because Sx types are the most energy attuned, Sx/So people are the most concerned with propelling themselves nonstop through a train of energy until they completely run out. This can apply to anything where they gain energy, but the cost of this constant forward propulsion is that things which would slow the person down and keep them within reasonable limits are ignored until they absolutely must be attended to.


I guess I could see myself as SP-first or SP-second according to the above description. As I've said elsewhere I think I "vibe" like an sp/sx type. I've always been perceived by others as "grounded". I don't feel very high energy, most of the time. Music does have a way of charging me up, though! So does discovering some new, fascinating fact or concept.



Shadowlight said:


> Edit: Slightly OT - Can someone tell me if Sandra Maitri's book covers instinctual subtypes for each type before I invest in it? Thanks.


Her book _The Spiritual Dimension of the Enneagram_ does.

A few more points: I could never see myself saying "I love money". At _best_ it's a necessary evil for me. It's a bother for me to even have to think about it (though obviously I do out of necessity). I've always saved money, though that came less from a conscious desire to "save" and more from the fact that I just didn't see much in the world worth spending money on. In more recent years I've spent more money as a way to support my habit (percussion).


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## Shadowlight (Dec 12, 2012)

Mizmar said:


> Her book _The Spiritual Dimension of the Enneagram_ does.
> 
> A few more points: I could never see myself saying "I love money". At _best_ it's a necessary evil for me. It's a bother for me to even have to think about it (though obviously I do out of necessity). I've always saved money, though that came less from a conscious desire to "save" and more from the fact that I just didn't see much in the world worth spending money on. In more recent years I've spent more money as a way to support my habit (percussion).


This as well as what I've posted. I pine for less as compared to my cohorts and colleagues. At times I've also found myself fantasizing about how great something would be if I got it, but slowly over time I either lose interest in it, or find some sort of fault in it that makes me not want to get it. 

I have fewer needs in volume (number of things) which is somewhat limited by knowing exactly what I want and how much I want to spend on it and then doing what I can to earn enough to get it. However, one thing is for sure - if I didn't value the worth of money and how difficult it is to earn it (Probably Tertiary Fi at play here), I would not be limiting my spending. I grew up in relative poverty btw so I had to learn to save and spend in a way where I go for bigger as opposed to more now that I'm earning well.


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## sodden (Jul 20, 2009)

_I bolded what I relate to:





SP blind spot - *lack of solid foundation*, lack in comfort and coziness, *lack in attention to* health, *maintenance*, and personal safety. *Such individuals often have a hard time focusing on issues such as financial security or the commitment to the development of practical skills. There is fear is of being an "eternal child" who won’t take care of one-self and expectation of failure in dealing with self-preservation matters.* At the same time these people tend to look down on SP-domain and may express cynicism towards it e.g. call it "fearful" and "fussy", state that SP people "don’t know how to really live". *When the instinct for self-preservation is last in the instinctual stacking, the individual will often be somewhat ungrounded or seemingly "immature."* The more extraverted SP-last individuals often find it difficult to develop a degree of “inwardness.”

Click to expand...



I actually talked about this recently. I am the only one of my peers to lack a career. I still feel like I'm eighteen when it comes to long term planning/life goals and I'm in my upper thirties (I really am developmentally a teenager when it comes to 'life goals' sort of stuff; too bad all of the things I want to do are typically done by twenty-somethings- like being in a band). I one hundred percent depend on my husband financially and really, really hate to think about money. I want to do what I want to do because I want to do it, not because I have to for financial reasons. That strikes me as hellish. 

Like @Mizmar I think I often 'vibe' as more sp/sx, and I think that's kind of how it is for a 4w5 or 5w4, especially with a 9 gut. Nines dig comfort and taking it easy, which can seem self-pres-ish, and 4w5s and 5w4s are typically pretty withdrawn and reserved, which can look self-pres like as well. Thing is, my intensity is typically focused toward more introverted pursuits, not doing kegstands with five hundred people. Although when I'm really excited about a person or a situation from which I'm getting energy I can go out every night and barely get any sleep and still do all kinds of fun stuff during the day. Whenever I'm in a new, stimulating situation I don't seem to have much of an off button. 

I also like @kaleidoscope am HSP-ish, so I care about my surroundings and I like to eat good food. But it's not consistent for me. For example, I can go for awhile not even noticing what I'm eating or not even notice what's going on around me, not even notice that my house is a pig sty and then out of the blue I'll care. But I'm terrible at maintaining/sustaining this stuff. If there is one word that has been used to describe me my entire life it is INCONSISTENT. I think this might be an attribute of a self pres last person. 


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## kurogane21 (Aug 24, 2019)

About , SP blind here. It reminds me to my little brother ( He is ESFP So/Sx ). He lacks about does long term like relationship or career. 
Although , he can save money unlike me. But , he is easily manipulated by someone. Like , he will use his money to his friends and forget to survive himself tbh.


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## Sidhe Draoi (Nov 25, 2016)

Oh wow, that description is so true for me. My friend said I still sound like a teenager and Im in my 30s. I still act like a teenager too. 
I sort of wonder how I come across sometimes. I think some teenagers dislike the way I act. and I feel uneasy around teenagers to begin with. Despite me being immature and childish I feel like I have little in common with teenagers when it comes to the wisdom Ive gained over the years to not be completely reckless and angsty anymore.

I dont have a drivers license yet. I dont have my own place. I dont have a job.

It seems like social instincts are more attitudes towards life, so I might need to change my attitude so that I can function in society.

I think self-preserving, though is not natural, so it has to be forced. Ill most likely forget to self-preserve a lot.


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