# What does a bad ESFJ/ISFJ look like?



## Drecon (Jun 20, 2016)

I've heard some pretty convincing arguments for Kanye West to be an ISFJ. 

In fiction: I've seen some convincing ESFJ villains. For example: Draco Malfoy seems to be one and I'm convinced Regina George from Mean Girls and Cercei Lannister from Game of Thrones share the type too. 

SFJs can go bad. It's just that our society is set up in a way to make it easy for them to attain their goals of social acceptance and still be part of society. 

Besides, our idea of 'bad people' is mostly a social construct of our own making. It's not something that really exists but it's a cultural phenomenon. What is bad to one person is good to another. So we'd have to define 'badness' for this to really mean anything objectively. It works for fiction though.


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## Aiwass (Jul 28, 2014)

I think Harvey Weinstein is an ESFJ. ESFJ can actually be manipulators. Generally the kind of manipulator who keeps a "good/friendly guy" façade, but manipulators nonetheless. 

See, ESFJs are bad at Ti and Ni, and the ones I know are bad at noticing they are repeating the same mistakes.


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## EmmaR (Mar 21, 2021)

SummerRoads said:


> I have to disagree on your speculation of the racism part. I think XSFJ tend to be pretty cautious of what they say to people in groups and try to be respectful of all walks of life. Kind of the "let's just all get along" attitude. As long as we think the person is a "good" person and kind to others that's kind of all that matters.
> 
> About what an unhealthy XSFJ would look like? Hmm... I know for ESFJs if we feel way stressed out and backed in a corner we can get snappy and bossy to people because we're trying to reestablish some semblance of order in what we perceive to be a chaotic environment / situation. I think we can become pretty judgmental of others, hold onto grudges forever, maybe gossip or talk negatively about others behind their backs, etc. Other stress / unhealthy behaviors for an ESFJ is when we retreat from socializing and want to be alone way too much and get really self critical and have a negative inner self talk. Also start thinking about "worst case scenarios" a lot or only seeing negative outcomes and then want to just stay in lane we know and not try anything new or different.


I believe you're a healthy ESFJ (or maybe you're actually an ENFJ?) 🤔
My father is an ESFJ, mother is ISFJ. I have had bad relationships with them since my childhood. I know there might be 1 or 2 good memories, but, the bad memories are even much more that I forget what the good memory was. 
My parents dislike independence. They love it when their children depend on them which isn't my thing. But actually, I am not my parents' priority, maybe because I am the only intuitive among their children, and it makes them don't understand my needs. I understand their behaviours after learning about personalities constantly and figure out why we have very different perspective. 
After deciding to live in a different city away from them, I feel much better.

(INTJ, 5w6)


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## EmmaR (Mar 21, 2021)

Drecon said:


> I've heard some pretty convincing arguments for Kanye West to be an ISFJ.
> 
> In fiction: I've seen some convincing ESFJ villains. For example: Draco Malfoy seems to be one and I'm convinced Regina George from Mean Girls and Cercei Lannister from Game of Thrones share the type too.
> 
> ...


Draco Malfoy is an ENTJ. He is smart. ESFJs are usually aren't smart.


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## mia-me (Feb 5, 2021)

Unhealthy ESFJs would look like the mean girl/queen bee stereotype, regardless of gender.


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## impulsenine (Oct 18, 2020)

Manipulative like hell, pathological lying, using people for their own needs without taking people's in consideration, gossiping A LOT everyone who is better, having a lot of enemies and... not being intelligent and educated.



EmmaR said:


> Draco Malfoy is an ENTJ. He is smart. ESFJs are usually aren't smart.


ESFJ is one of the smartest type, it's just that it doesn't brag about how smart they are, they just use intelligence as a tool to obtain what they want.

There are stupid people with any type of personality just as there are intelligent people with any type.
I met ESFJs who can make any ENTJ cry when it comes to intelligence. (to the detriment of the latter)


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## Ohndot (Apr 12, 2015)

I know SFJs well enough to reveal little if any personal information. And they don't like that.


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## Drecon (Jun 20, 2016)

EmmaR said:


> Draco Malfoy is an ENTJ. He is smart. ESFJs are usually aren't smart.


That's the worst possible argument. Even if it were true, it would be an argument from statistics. As in: The odds of an ESFJ being smart are low, so he can't be an ESFJ. 

First of all: we are dealing with a work of fiction and that means that most characters appearing in it are exceptional. That can easily make any character beat the odds of their stereotypes. 
Second of all: Unlikely things happen all the time. That's why odds aren't ever certainties. 
Third of all: Draco isn't even that smart. He's just rich and has parents that demand the absolute best from him. That gives him a very unique position and even if he were of average intelligence, he would still be more likely to rise to the top. That's how our world works, sadly.

That said, it's not remotely true. Maybe ENTJs score better on IQ tests on average, but they might be more motivated to train for them (as it is actually something that you can get better at) and there are multiple types of intelligence. 
When I think of smart people in my environment though, yes, I can think of an ENTJ and an INTJ, but there's also an ISFJ (my dear wife), an ISTP, an ESTP and an ESFP, who are definitely all extremely smart.

So... I can think of arguments for Draco Malfoy to be an ENTJ, but this definitely isn't one of them.


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