# Older Women with Younger Men



## Arclight (Feb 10, 2010)

Obsidean said:


> We also need all the other senses. I don't know how you can say "touch" is the most important. We also need smell and vision to love and be healthy.


 Please show me where I said we didn't need the others or that touch is the only one that matters.
Nowhere did I exclude other senses playing a role. 
I said touch is the first sense humans develop and remains the most important sense to maintaining a healthy state of being.
I can say this because I am educated enough to say it. Humans do not need smell or vision to develop love, but it's almost certain they will not learn how to love without touch. You are welcome to do your own research on the subject and make your own mind up. You know?


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Obsidean said:


> We also need all the other senses. I don't know how you can say "touch" is the most important. We also need smell and vision to love and be healthy.


So, like, you know all those babies died in Nazi Germany with the rest of their senses and food, because they weren't held and loved?


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## Obsidean (Mar 24, 2010)

fourtines said:


> So, like, you know all those babies died in Nazi Germany with the rest of their senses and food, because they weren't held and loved?


It was more to do with their cognitive abilities not being developed.


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## Arclight (Feb 10, 2010)

Obsidean said:


> It was more to do with their cognitive abilities not being developed.


Excuse me? A baby human has less cognitive ability than an adult chimp. 
Cognitive _reasoning _doesn't develop until the early teens.
You can't ignore our biology Good Sir. This is empirical data.
We are emotionally and sensationally dependent from birth. We are not cognitively dependent from birth.
Come on!!

Plus your challenge of my statement has caused a derail. You would better serve yourself not to be so stereotypical. 

My Regards

Arc.


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## Obsidean (Mar 24, 2010)

Arclight said:


> Excuse me? A baby human has less cognitive ability than an adult chimp.
> Cognitive _reasoning _doesn't develop until the early teens.
> You can't ignore our biology Good Sir. This is empirical data.
> We are emotionally and sensationally dependent from birth. We are not cognitively dependent from birth.
> Come on!!


I do not know wear you're coming from, maybe we have our wires crossed? I was stating that if human babies are not given cognitive stimulation the more they will withdraw and wither, displaying profound impairments in all domains of development. Some of course will die.


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## Intricate Mystic (Apr 3, 2010)

Arclight said:


> Excuse me? A baby human has less cognitive ability than an adult chimp.
> Cognitive _reasoning _doesn't develop until the early teens.
> You can't ignore our biology Good Sir. This is empirical data.
> We are emotionally and sensationally dependent from birth. We are not cognitively dependent from birth.
> ...





Obsidean said:


> I do not know wear you're coming from, maybe we have our wires crossed? I was stating that if human babies are not given cognitive stimulation the more they will withdraw and wither, displaying profound impairments in all domains of development. Some of course will die.


You are both right. An infant who experiences no physical touch but cognitive stimulation (especially being exposed to human language) will not thrive. The reverse scenario is also true— infants and young children who experience physical touch but are never exposed to language will be severely impaired in language processing and in the use of language themselves. Since the brain seems to be wired for language acquisition at a young age, if they don't acquire these skills when they are young, they will be severely restricted in what they can accomplish in reading, writing, and speaking for the duration of their lives, regardless of later attempts of people to teach them these skills. This has been demonstrated in studies of feral children who lived in the wild or grew up in an extremely abusive living situation in which they never heard human speech. One much-studied case of this is the child named Genie— Genie (feral child) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .


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## redmanXNTP (May 17, 2011)




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## Intricate Mystic (Apr 3, 2010)

redmanXNTP said:


>


This image is a bit insulting to older women. Mae West wasn't that intelligent and was all about being a sex symbol. If you think more in terms of an older woman who is a _lady_ becoming friends with a younger man through intellectual conversations on a forum, followed by both people discovering an unexpected attraction to each other, you would be closer to the mark.


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## redmanXNTP (May 17, 2011)

Intricate Mystic said:


> This image is a bit insulting to older women. Mae West wasn't that intelligent and was all about being a sex symbol. If you think more in terms of an older woman who is a _lady_ becoming friends with a younger man through intellectual conversations on a forum, followed by both people discovering an unexpected attraction to each other, you would be closer to the mark.


First of all, lighten up, Francis. I posted without comment a picture of a humorous persona and you took it to be my comprehensive treatment of the subject and took offense? 

As for your comments, on the contrary, Mae West was brilliant. She was a classic example of someone needing to be very smart to play a character that shallow. You may not agree with her lifestyle, and her persona may grate on you, but she was noteworthy because she bucked the trends and lampooned the social mores of the time by being about as overtly liberated and sexual as you dared to be at the time, especially as a woman, and yet she still managed to do so in a way that brought her affection rather than scorn.


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## Intricate Mystic (Apr 3, 2010)

redmanXNTP said:


> First of all, lighten up, Francis. I posted without comment a picture of a humorous persona and you took it to be my comprehensive treatment of the subject and took offense?


Yes, I did take it that way. If it's not so relevant to this thread, why post it? I think there has been some stereotyping in here about older women in relationships with younger men due to a lack of experience with or knowledge of the phenomenon. This cultural development seems to be on the uptick due to the advent of the Internet. I get the impression from other women that it's happening much more than people realize. Psychologists should do empirical studies on this topic to broaden our knowledge of it.


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## redmanXNTP (May 17, 2011)

Intricate Mystic said:


> Yes, I did take it that way. If it's not so relevant to this thread, why post it? I think there has been some stereotyping in here about older women in relationships with younger men due to a lack of experience with or knowledge of the phenomenon. This cultural development seems to be on the uptick due to the advent of the Internet. I get the impression from other women that it's happening much more than people realize. Psychologists should do empirical studies on this topic to broaden our knowledge of it.


You seem to have a rather rigid and narcissistic view of relevance. 

I don't see much mystery here. Choice of mates has a huge amount to do with economic and social status. Women have gained in economic and social and legal status, and therefore have a greater liberty in their choice of mates rather than being concerned first and foremost with finding someone who could provide economically for them in exchange for bearing children and making the home. In short they have a lot more bargaining power.

Is it that shocking that women who have the power of choice might decide that physical appearance and sexual performance (which tend to tail off for men as they get past 30 years old) would be part of the criteria for some women?


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## sofort99 (Mar 27, 2010)

Intricate Mystic said:


> This image is a bit insulting to older women. Mae West wasn't that intelligent and was all about being a sex symbol. If you think more in terms of an older woman who is a _lady_ becoming friends with a younger man through intellectual conversations on a forum, followed by both people discovering an unexpected attraction to each other, you would be closer to the mark.



HAHAHAHA!!!!


Sorry... young guys go out with older women because it's an easier way to get laid.


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## Intricate Mystic (Apr 3, 2010)

redmanXNTP said:


> I don't see much mystery here. Choice of mates has a huge amount to do with economic and social status. Women have gained in economic and social and legal status, and therefore have a greater liberty in their choice of mates rather than being concerned first and foremost with finding someone who could provide economically for them in exchange for bearing children and making the home. In short they have a lot more bargaining power.


I agree with this.



> Is it that shocking that women who have the power of choice might decide that physical appearance and sexual performance (which tend to tail off for men as they get past 30 years old) would be part of the criteria for some women?


I can definitely see it being part of the criteria for some women. Older women can have a healthy sex drive that may not be matched well by men their age. However, if these women were to objectify younger men and only be interested in someone who's good-looking with great sexual performance they're no better than men who do that. The best relationships are those in which you are attracted to the whole person in all of their complexities (and vice-versa).


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## Intricate Mystic (Apr 3, 2010)

sofort99 said:


> HAHAHAHA!!!!
> 
> 
> Sorry... young guys go out with older women because it's an easier way to get laid.


Why is it easier to get laid?


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## sofort99 (Mar 27, 2010)

Intricate Mystic said:


> Why is it easier to get laid?


It increases the pool of potential partners for him, older women tend to be more experienced and not demand as much effort and don't play as many games than younger women do, plus there is the incentive that it's an ego boost for her.

Generally, a younger guy is going to have it much easier with an older woman than with someone his own age.


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## redmanXNTP (May 17, 2011)

Intricate Mystic said:


> Why is it easier to get laid?


Read this thread.

Also, you keep jumping back and forth between a discussion of cultural trends and explanations for them, and discussion of the morals involved with these relationships. Please keep them discrete as they're really too different issues, though certainly related in a lot of ways.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

redmanXNTP said:


> First of all, lighten up, Francis. I posted without comment a picture of a humorous persona and you took it to be my comprehensive treatment of the subject and took offense?
> 
> As for your comments, on the contrary, Mae West was brilliant. She was a classic example of someone needing to be very smart to play a character that shallow. You may not agree with her lifestyle, and her persona may grate on you, but she was noteworthy because she bucked the trends and lampooned the social mores of the time by being about as overtly liberated and sexual as you dared to be at the time, especially as a woman, and yet she still managed to do so in a way that brought her affection rather than scorn.


For what it's worth *I think* Mae West is cool, though she may be too stereotypically ESxP for some people's tastes, I guess? 

I wasn't offended at all, lol.

Although I do see why @Intricate Mystic is taking the subject more seriously, because we are talking about relationships, not just Cougars using younger men as sex toys.


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## Intricate Mystic (Apr 3, 2010)

redmanXNTP said:


> Read this thread.


Ok I read it. You seem to have been advocating no strings attached sex between younger men and older divorced women with no consideration for the fact that there are other versions of relationships besides this one. It seems kind of narrow-minded. Do you think that's what motivated Demi Moore and Ashton Kutcher? An unemotional meet-up and f**k arrangement? Or, is it possible that they actually loved and respected each other, just as people do with SO's their own age? 



> Also, you keep jumping back and forth between a discussion of cultural trends and explanations for them, and discussion of the morals involved with these relationships. Please keep them discrete as they're really too different issues, though certainly related in a lot of ways.


My thinking processes work differently from yours...it doesn't mean they're wrong.


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## redmanXNTP (May 17, 2011)

Intricate Mystic said:


> My thinking processes work differently from yours...it doesn't mean they're wrong.


No, but it makes the presentation of your thoughts scattered and very difficult to follow, and it also leads to misunderstanding (see below). 



Intricate Mystic said:


> Ok I read it. You seem to have been advocating no strings attached sex between younger men and older divorced women with no consideration for the fact that there are other versions of relationships besides this one. It seems kind of narrow-minded. Do you think that's what motivated Demi Moore and Ashton Kutcher? An unemotional meet-up and f**k arrangement? Or, is it possible that they actually loved and respected each other, just as people do with SO's their own age.


I'm not advocating anything. There was a specific scenario being discussed there, and people sharing experiences. I posted that link in reponse to your question as to why a younger man might say he's got an easier time attracting an older woman. You're deluding yourself if you think that sex isn't an important part of that. 

That doesn't mean that I think (or have said) that sex is the only consideration. 

I'm curious, in your own personal life, how many people do you know who are in serious relationships lasting more than three months where the female is greater than 10 years older than the male?


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## Intricate Mystic (Apr 3, 2010)

redmanXNTP said:


> I'm not advocating anything. There was a specific scenario being discussed there, and people sharing experiences. I posted that link in response to your question as to why a younger man might say he's got an easier time attracting an older woman. You're deluding yourself if you think that sex isn't an important part of that.
> 
> That doesn't mean that I think (or have said) that sex is the only consideration.


Sex is always an important part for men regardless of whether there's an age gap with the partner. I'm not deluding myself, either. A man ten years younger than me wanted me to ask him to marry him the first time we met in person. Did he ask me that just so he could marry me and have lots of hot sex with his wife?



> I'm curious, in your own personal life, how many people do you know who are in serious relationships lasting more than three months where the female is greater than 10 years older than the male?


I don't know of any personally but I'm an introvert so it's not like I know a lot of people. Also, I just want to say that I would be fine with a relationship with someone around my age or older but have tended to meet younger men lately. Actually, I'm really not even trying to meet someone for a relationship as I'm not ready for that right now. "IM gets off-topic again, redmanXNTP's head explodes" lol


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

boblikesoup said:


> I am actively seeking out cougars right now. I don't like hanging out with the vast majority of girls my age while not having sex because they're mostly S and/or F types who I view as petty. I'd ideally like to have an N-type my own age but I don't know many so have decided I am going to invest more in cougars until those girls have grown up and serenaded a little bit more. Older women are more mature and have developed interests.


My mom is totally petty and she's in her early 50's. LOL. 

I'm S/F and I don't consider myself petty, I let things go pretty easily, but there some NTs who would strongly disagree, I'm sure. Depends on what you mean by "petty."


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Ozziechick1966 said:


> [I don't like hanging out with the vast majority of girls my age while not having sex because they're mostly S and/or F types who I view as petty.]
> 
> Older women can be petty too and not just S/F types.I'm an S/F and older (45 in 2 weeks time).I'm not petty and I know quite a few much younger women who are very mature for their age.Do you just want to get with cougars/milfs for the ego boost of being able to conquer an older woman.*Because you certainly won't have much in common with them apart from the sex*.I have had two one night stands with much younger men as stated in an earlier post.One was 21 years my junior,the other 26 years and my son's friend.He was born just 2 months before I gave birth to my son,and on reflection I should never have let him into my bed that night.BIG MISTAKE!!! and although the sex was the best I'd had in years I am not proud that it happened.


I don't know if I agree with this...depends on how much older they are. Your experiences are with guys 20-25 years younger than you...if he goes for a woman who is still 10-15 years within his own age (a MILF, who can be as young as late 20's, as opposed to Cougars who are at least 35, even 40 depending on who you ask) they very well might have things in common. 

I watch a lot of the same shows, listen to the same music and am immersed in a similar culture to people within a 10-15 year age range of myself on either direction of the spectrum. 

But that's because we're all Gen Y, on the younger end at least, probably. And I feel a lot more of a kinship with Gen X than Baby Boomers.

On the other hand, men who are Baby Boomers, older men who are more than 10-15 years older than me, I feel like I have nothing in common with, and it makes me feel deeply bored. 

I act kind of young, though, and I don't like "daddy" types.


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## happyending (Nov 25, 2011)

Gross, what are you a pervert?


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

redmanXNTP said:


> Hollywood marriages are not typical. That's why people identifying "trends" based upon celebrities in the headlines is silly.
> 
> Any successful long term relationship is about maturity and compatibility. Typically, similar ages and socio-economic status are pretty good at "guaranteeing" some amount of both of those, the assumption being that the life experiences to date have been roughly similar. The rest is extremely subjective and unmeasurable, obviously.



I don't know man, similar ages and life experiences sounds like something that it would strongly appeal to Si types, and most people are Si types. 

On the other hand, one thing that makes me nuts about some Baby Boomers and people on the older end of Gen X seem out of touch with the culture that is going on RIGHT NOW. I can definitely see a generation gap being more of an issue than actual age, and I can see different aspects being more important to some people than others. For example, some people are very attached to the culture they grew up in so they marry someone from their town - where as I have NO intentions of marrying "a nice Southern boy" because the culture I grew up in feels stifling to me, and I don't see it as a necessary factor, I was in a relationship with someone whose family is half-Mexican and who grew up in a large city in the southwest, and we had A LOT in common. Some people also place a great deal of emphasis on religion, so it's important to them to marry someone of the same faith...where as that doesn't matter to me, except in terms of not wanting to be with a partner who is very religious, since I'm not. On the other hand, things like art, music, and popular culture are more important to me in terms of "sharing cultural experiences."


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## AussieChick (Dec 27, 2010)

happyending said:


> Gross, what are you a pervert?


A woman in her early thirties as @fourtines has stated is in her age group
isn't perverted for dating/having a relationship with some one in their early twenties.Ten years difference between partners is really nothing these days.I guess though you wouldn't be complaining if the guy was ten years older than his girlfriend.I know a guy 20 years older than his fiancee.He and I had a brief relationship when they supposedly split up for a short time.He is almost 10 years older than I am.What's perverted about that?, why all the fuss about women being older?

@fourtines I can see your point as to common interests.Yes you would have some shared interests being in the same generation (Gen Y) as those somewhat younger than you.For myself being a Gen X who has lots in common with Baby Boomers (I love the music of the 50's,60's and 70's) as well as the 80's 90's,and films from the Golden Era (40's,50's,60's).I wouldn't have much in common with those much younger than me.However I'm not a total oldie,I do like some modern music (big fan of Adele)and consider myself to be fun loving and adventurous.I do prefer older men however,not daddy types per say but as mentioned earlier I feel more like a Baby Boomer than Gen X.The oldest man I dated was 11 years older than me,and only 9 years younger than my father:tongue:


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Ozziechick1966 said:


> A woman in her early thirties as @_fourtines_ has stated is in her age group
> isn't perverted for dating/having a relationship with some one in their early twenties.Ten years difference between partners is really nothing these days.I guess though you wouldn't be complaining if the guy was ten years older than his girlfriend.I know a guy 20 years older than his fiancee.He and I had a brief relationship when they supposedly split up for a short time.He is almost 10 years older than I am.What's perverted about that?, why all the fuss about women being older?


For real. My dad was 10 years older than my mom (though her second husband - the father of my three sisters - was 2 years _younger _than her lol!). People barely even blink if they see an 18-21 year old female with a 28-32 year old male. Sheesh. 



> @_fourtines_ I can see your point as to common interests.Yes you would have some shared interests being in the same generation (Gen Y) as those somewhat younger than you.For myself being a Gen X who has lots in common with Baby Boomers (I love the music of the 50's,60's and 70's) as well as the 80's 90's,and films from the Golden Era (40's,50's,60's).I wouldn't have much in common with those much younger than me.However I'm not a total oldie,I do like some modern music (big fan of Adele)and consider myself to be fun loving and adventurous.I do prefer older men however,not daddy types per say but as mentioned earlier I feel more like a Baby Boomer than Gen X.The oldest man I dated was 11 years older than me,and only 9 years younger than my father:tongue:


Ha ha...makes lots of sense!


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

happyending said:


> Gross, what are you a pervert?


JTG, my dear, is that you?


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Damn I'm psychic.


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## Popinjay (Sep 19, 2011)

fourtines said:


> People barely even blink if they see an 18-21 year old female with a 28-32 year old male. Sheesh.


Yes...um...it's a damn...um...fuckin'...um...tragedy???

Seriously, if a hot 28-32 year old female had been interested in me at 18-21, I would have been elated. 18-21 year old girls were 'like': so like bla bla bla Britney like Backstreet like Hillary Duff like bla bla Lindsay Lohan like bla Justin Timberlake like bla bla like bla like bla like like bla bla.


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## Goodewitch (Mar 4, 2010)

This topic is on my mind lately. 
At 41, I've found myself in the unenviable position of having bugger all in common with my age similar peers. I have no children, no past marriages, or long live in relationships, no divorces, no split ups,.. no mortgage, no school fees, none of the usual stuff that marks out people in their forties. Consequently, I find hanging around people of my own age to feel like the biggest drag ever,..as I really have no common points of reference.
I am tired of trying to smile through a date with a forty something man, who wants to chat about his ex wife, his school fees, his mortgage, the economy, yadda yadda,..its NO fun, beleive me.
Most of my peers seem old before their time, with much more life experience under their belts, and Im sorry to say this,..its Boooooring..
I would like to laugh, and giggle, and I like to talk about inconsequential stuff like computer games, internet humour, films etc,.. but men my own age seem determined to bring me down with all the 'baggage' they carry.
They also have 'been there, done that' and have little enthusiasm left for trying to make anythng romantic or magical,..their cynicism is all pervasive.
I dont want that,..so I've realised that I actually like the company of younger men, I relate to them better,..now, wether, they just humour me, or wether they actually feel like I am 'one of them' in terms of topics of conversation etc,..i really dont know,..all I do know is that Im more comfy around them, than I am around men my own age.
It has nothing to do with looks for me,.. all this young and beautiful kinda stuff doesnt really register,.. its more about where theyre at in their heads,..that I find appealing. I find younger men to be more sensitive generally, more emotionally open, not as jaded, willing to see many points of view,.. more ready to laugh, to joke,.. and less macho or 'sensible' than their older counterparts.
I am aware, however, how society views older women dating younger men..the whole cougar thing, I am also aware that being freinds with younger men and actually dating one is very different.
I am hesitant to date a younger man,..because I feel I may eventually bring him down, like older men bring ME down,.. and Im also aware that older women/younger men relationships typically have no future, and are temporary, at best,..so that puts me off dating a younger man,..however,.. I'm now open to the possibility of dating younger,.. because my own age group seems to have little in common with me.
G. x


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## Bago (Aug 30, 2011)

boblikesoup said:


> I am actively seeking out cougars right now. I don't like hanging out with the vast majority of girls my age while not having sex because they're mostly S and/or F types who I view as petty. I'd ideally like to have an N-type my own age but I don't know many so have decided I am going to invest more in cougars until those girls have grown up and serenaded a little bit more. Older women are more mature and have developed interests.


What is wrong with you ? You should actually date someone your own age. I will be honest with you too. It is a "safe" thing to be with someone older who you think is in more control and do not give you heartache or drama. Trust me, I have been there too. Though, you do learn a lot from interacting with people your own age, and you also learn to be trusting, open-hearted and so forth as well. Also, to avoid those who is creating trauma, or being dramatic, or that you find that you create life skills in how to change and steer a relationship towards one that both parties grow into ? 

When I started working, I find myself having to socialise with older people, and actually that was a good and bad thing on my part, cos I learnt how to be mature way before I should. Even though I was brought up in a vertical environment whereby I was already dealing with some very mature issues even when I was a child. I can see how you seem to differ in this kind of instance, but I genuinely encourage you to really create a kind of social network which fits your peer group instead. Not everybody is immature or just wants to have sex and so forth. You can indeed talk openly you know. Do not let your peer environment changes you as a person, and forces you to seek something else, elsewhere. That is the point. 

You should not see S or F types as "Petty". Cos there is a lot that is going on in them which they are not aware, and you are also not aware too. If you guys do not interact, I think you will stereotype each other way too much and too easily. Also, if you do not interact with these S or F type girls, you won't be able to adapt your communication skills too. Vice versa.


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## Eerie (Feb 9, 2011)

The older person I was in a relationship with had intense baggage, and was fucking psychotic. Wanna talk about drama? Try having a kid with someone 16 years older who says that since I didn't abort the kid is mine to deal with and then fell off the face of the planet, never to pay child support or be their for his kid.

Age does not equal maturity. For either gender. Someone 21 can be mature just as someone 55. 

I get irritated when people mention that older people of either gender are automatically more mature somehow than their younger counterparts, because it's just not true.


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## Bago (Aug 30, 2011)

@fourtines - Great subject ! I am also in my early 30s and I too recently took a year out to assess my life, which has been great for myself spiritually. I also met an INFP guy actually who was in his mid-20s. Who I thought was very mature for his age. I cannot believe I fell for him so. Though, I also did not question the age differences, whereas I did before when I met someone older than I during my late 20s, and he was very patronising towards me and also it freaked me out that the person was so much older for some reason. If I have to reflect and think about things, it is something to do with our own desires, and wanting just what we want, and not to deal with things as well. Though having met this guy, I have started to question my own life, and to see the kind of person that do or is indeed compatible or is suitable for me too. 

A part of me do miss the fact that I won't grow with somebody now, and to enjoy the banter and the relationship that we grew together with. I myself was one of those kid who had to deal with some heavier issues as a child, and therefore matured me more than I should for my age too. Plus, I am so certain that I had in some indirect ways been influenced way too much by my parents. Especially my father. As I wanted to make him proud, I behaved like a modern man should, and lived up to his ideals too. I got my financial freedom and this allowed me to be the chooser then the choosee. This is so stupid isn't it ? Cos to me, finding a perfect love is almost as great too. Someone whom I could have encouraged, grown and was a part together throughout the process of growth. I think in the search for this, I probably disregarded some quite good candidates, who is not the best romantic ideals, but they ploughed on to be themselves. Whereas I probably broke myself spiritually by doing so, and forgotten what my ideals were. 

I remember reading this one article a long time ago about British women finding "love" in Jamaican men by going abroad on holidays. It says a lot about the British society back then, because people did not know how to love, or what is love, or how best to hold together a family, cos everybody want that immediate result without learning to respect and love one another. I always thought that those women were vulnerable, but yet now, I do not see this myself ? At the same time, I do question, whether it is the right thing to do for myself too. 

I genuinely think that there is indeed something to be said about those who are loyal to you and stay in a relationship with you through thick and thin, but it does mean that, the relationship needs to change and shift such that, you have to give each other that nurturing, and spiritual growth too. 

I am also on a dating site, I too find it hard that most people are quite broken spiritually, and is not ready to date. Or that they have kids already. Or that they are somewhere across the globe. Sigh. 

I dunno, it sure raises questions on what is right, and what feels right or to do the right thing... There should indeed be laughter, companionship and so forth. It seems so hard to achieve, doesn't it ?


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## Bago (Aug 30, 2011)

Eerie said:


> The older person I was in a relationship with had intense baggage, and was fucking psychotic. Wanna talk about drama? Try having a kid with someone 16 years old who says that since I didn't abort the kid is mine to deal with and then fell off the face of the planet, never to pay child support or be their for his kid.
> 
> Age does not equal maturity. For either gender. Someone 21 can be mature just as someone 55.
> 
> I get irritated when people mention that older people of either gender are automatically more mature somehow than their younger counterparts, because it's just not true.


Yeh, but you got to remember to give credit where credit is due and whether someone shield their emotions from you and deal with their own support network, compared to someone who rely solely on you as a partner, dependent, and everything else ? There is definitely something to be said about being a part of a community, or a wider social network such that, you can get advice, and to also reflect on how one deals with various life situations and scenarios too.

I am surprised that a lot of younger men and women here just thinks that it is a case of maturity or immaturity and so forth. To me, I have never really not been a part of wider social networks at all. Cos that is the culture that I am brought up with. So therefore, I know and knew what people look for and why. I even sometimes give my male friends advice when I see their relationships heading towards downhill, cos they have been out drinking too much. 

I find the culture in the US pretty odd. How can you be so independent such that, you think you can deal with life's various issues when you do not have others or elders who can advice you as to the best approach ? For me, maybe because I was raised in an Asian family setting such that, I knew the protocols and rules, and the social hierarchy. There is no way that I can see a guy who is 10 years older than me as a potential partner. It just does not work that way. 

I have had like 60 year old men hitting on me, to which I freaked out. Cos I did not know that they can indeed see me that way, and therefore disrespect themselves. I also never knew that they themselves were lonely too. I get it now. Yet, they don't even see the women their own age as candidates. Even when they are absolutely stunning and dress so nice! It is so interesting, cos I am still a part of an ex-colleague's drinking group, and majority of the people are so much older than I. The ones nearer my age stays at home now cos their GF or wife pulls them back. Which is rightly so. The ones that comes out are indeed without families or their partner died. I realised so much that this is actually a social support network which I need to wean myself off from. But the dynamic is interesting however. 

Life is for the living. We should live it. Open our eyes and live it.


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## AussieChick (Dec 27, 2010)

[I get irritated when people mention that older people of either gender are automatically more mature somehow than their younger counterparts, because it's just not true.]


> @Eerie
> 
> Very true,I know a 26 year old woman who is dating someone my age (44).She is very mature for her age,and I think that what @Bago said is true too.
> 
> ...


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## Bago (Aug 30, 2011)

It sounds like me, but everybody deserves happiness. I remember that, when I was at university, and this was during the mid-90s. IRC chatrooms was all the rage, and this was when I learnt SO much about life. I found out so many housewives actually would use chatrooms to elevate their own boredom. Okay, at that time, I thought it was boredom and it was typical. Though, knowing now what I now know, which is different to back then is that, there is a lack of communication in how to get what you want from a marriage. I think sometimes people forget what they are doing or get lost in life such that they lose their own focus too. I say that because I am like that too, and I can see now thinking back to these kind of examples, how easy it is to lose what you originally set out to have. 

I also saw my own sister chatting to this guy online, which I thought threatened her perfect marriage too. I was shocked. I watched it happen, and I asked her who this person was. She kind of dismissed it, but I often give her a different perspective to think about, which she overlooks herself, cos she cannot see it beyond her own mbti, or what she desires. I also sometimes talk about our cousins, and when who flirts with who etc, in a way to show her what she is missing out on, and why relationship dynamic changes and happen. Her relationship combination is ESFJ and INTJ. I knew also at one point she thought that I gelled well with her husband too and I know she never have to say it, but she expressed jealously on how well we interacted. I knew it. Yet, I showed her moments whereby he stepped up the game and shown love to her. i.e. supported her shopping habits... fancy things. He actually gets her, but she does not know it or recognised it. She now gets it that he is a true geek. She knows he loves programmes that have INTJ characters in them. Maybe women are indeed better psychologists really. 

I think that everybody should indeed be honest and open, cos how else will you learn to reflect on your own life's circumstances ? How do you know what you have is indeed what you want, or which direction it should go towards ??? 

I have learnt so much from this forum too. About myself, my mbti, and what I did miss out in life as well... 

A marriage or relationship is only as good as you protect it. If you try to seek yourself in a relationship, you will fail. If you tried to live for someone else and offer altruism, you will find love. I understand that much now. In a way, this is possibly why I was targetted by those guys in their 60s too. Cos they only ever saw my social polite side, but they have never ever seen me in a romantic relationship context at all, and hence that is all they think I am about and would want to date me, but far from it ! Only one guy is astute and he is an INFP too I found out, and he pulls me back in my moral line, and I know it. There is something to be said about respectability in that grand old age concept. I remember I used to hate knowing these kind of things from my mother, cos I classify it as gossips, but in reality, she was hinting at life experiences and that she was trying to teach me a thing or two about life in general, but I remember rejecting them because I was not ready to learn them at all. How true it all sounds now.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

Goodewitch said:


> This topic is on my mind lately.
> At 41, I've found myself in the unenviable position of having bugger all in common with my age similar peers. I have no children, no past marriages, or long live in relationships, no divorces, no split ups,.. no mortgage, no school fees, none of the usual stuff that marks out people in their forties. Consequently, I find hanging around people of my own age to feel like the biggest drag ever,..as I really have no common points of reference.
> I am tired of trying to smile through a date with a forty something man, who wants to chat about his ex wife, his school fees, his mortgage, the economy, yadda yadda,..its NO fun, beleive me.
> Most of my peers seem old before their time, with much more life experience under their belts, and Im sorry to say this,..its Boooooring..
> ...


Very well said.


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## Eerie (Feb 9, 2011)

Whoa. I meant to say 16 years older, not 16 years old.


uh my bad. :tongue:


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

Eerie said:


> Whoa. I meant to say 16 years older, not 16 years old.
> 
> 
> uh my bad. :tongue:


Lol.. somehow I knew what you meant anyway. ^_^


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## WamphyriThrall (Apr 11, 2011)

Grass is greener on the other side, I s'pose.


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## twoofthree (Aug 6, 2011)

Goodewitch said:


> This topic is on my mind lately.
> At 41, I've found myself in the unenviable position of having bugger all in common with my age similar peers. I have no children, no past marriages, or long live in relationships, no divorces, no split ups,.. no mortgage, no school fees, none of the usual stuff that marks out people in their forties. Consequently, I find hanging around people of my own age to feel like the biggest drag ever,..as I really have no common points of reference.
> I am tired of trying to smile through a date with a forty something man, who wants to chat about his ex wife, his school fees, his mortgage, the economy, yadda yadda,..its NO fun, beleive me.
> Most of my peers seem old before their time, with much more life experience under their belts, and Im sorry to say this,..its Boooooring..
> ...


I can relate to this 100%.
I'm not as old, but I still haven't gone down the typical path and so can't relate that well to people my own age.

In some ways, I still have the mindset, and lust for life of someone in their 20s.
Age doesn't mean anything to me. If I could find someone with whom I was compatible, I wouldn't care about their age.
But from experience, they're more likely to be younger than I am.


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## Bago (Aug 30, 2011)

twoofthree said:


> I can relate to this 100%.
> I'm not as old, but I still haven't gone down the typical path and so can't relate that well to people my own age.
> 
> In some ways, I still have the mindset, and lust for life of someone in their 20s.
> ...


Sometimes we only want to see what we want to support our own argument.
For me, I go dancing actually, and I found out that there are some really genuinely sweet guys who take their wives dancing, even when they are into their 60s. So suave. 

I am also kind of blessed in a way cos I met some older couples who got their crap together too, and they do "play" and create fun with each other all the time. Whether it is just painting together or doing something which one partner likes and prefer more but the other does not. It is indeed about finding that commonalities to keep growing and enjoying your time with each other. 

It is funny when we think about this. An INFP friend who was in her 20s complained and was upset with me for not supporting her in the first few months I mentioned to her, when she told me of some sexual harrassment issues that was happening to her by her colleague. I told her outright that he should not have sexually intimidated her. I told her to distant herself from him, and plus she was kind of leading him on a tad. Cos she should have been more or acted more respectfully and drew a big boundary line. This guy is a nutcase and invited her and her bf to his boat, and his family met her too, and so forth ? Then he tried to get into her bedroom one time which scared the hell out of her ? Cos that is not what she wanted and could not see that he was not in the right mindset, just cos they share a great experience in photography. I told her this. In defiance, she dismissed what was going on, and "went with it" and said to be (maybe to protect her ego), that it is his fault for falling for her, and that it should not affect her self esteem. What ?!?!!?!??? 

Sometimes we all make bad judgments in our own lives, and although it upset her, her intent was not to accept him as a sexual partner even though they have common interests. I think this is one of those things that people should be self aware of themselves. What exactly are you looking for, and why displace your lost desire or achievements onto someone else ?? 

It made me sick when she told me that when she told her parents and that they let her do that also. As it was her choice ?! What ??? Some parents are taking the "They are adults" line waaaaay too loosely. When I told her this, I insulted her parents on their parenting too, which she was mad about, and we are not friends any more. If she felt anxious or have a wrong feeling about it, then there is no right or wrong, she should have stood up for herself and said an outright "no". 

I wonder how many young men will admit to their own lack of self control and self esteem too and go for an older woman ?


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## twoofthree (Aug 6, 2011)

Bago said:


> Sometimes we only want to see what we want to support our own argument.
> For me, I go dancing actually, and I found out that there are some really genuinely sweet guys who take their wives dancing, even when they are into their 60s. So suave.
> 
> I am also kind of blessed in a way cos I met some older couples who got their crap together too, and they do "play" and create fun with each other all the time. Whether it is just painting together or doing something which one partner likes and prefer more but the other does not. It is indeed about finding that commonalities to keep growing and enjoying your time with each other.


I couldn't quite follow the rest of your post, but this seems to be the bit that is in response to my post.

When I talk about mindset and lust for life, I'm not talking about going dancing.
I'm talking about being at the stage of life when one is still quite free. No baggage; no ties. 

I can't relate to them or vice versa. I've never been married or had kids, or owned a house.
I live a semi-nomadic lifestyle.

So even though I might be the same age as someone; we're just not in the same chapter (much less on the same page) of the guidebook.


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## Bago (Aug 30, 2011)

twoofthree said:


> I couldn't quite follow the rest of your post, but this seems to be the bit that is in response to my post.
> 
> When I talk about mindset and lust for life, I'm not talking about going dancing.
> I'm talking about being at the stage of life when one is still quite free. No baggage; no ties.
> ...


What you wrote and what Goodwitch wrote as well, is that you seem to want that "lust for life" and that "joyfulness" within a person. You associated this as being part of your age. I am saying that, this has got nothing to do with age. It is a mindset. Which ALL of us can have. 

I was trying to illustrate to you that some couples I have met in my dance classes that they both still lust for each other SO much. Even though they are in their 60s. Their dancing is so dynamic, and you can see the physical attraction between the two of them ? This is why I disregard your comment about that youthfulness as being related to age only. I personally think that everybody has the capacity within themselves to be so joyful and dynamic as a part of themselves. Whether this happy person can have a chance to come out of themselves and be sustained in an environment that nurtures it, is another matter. 

Even if people have baggage, house, ties, one can still be "free", and be a "free soul". This is the point. Choosing your lifestyle such that you always allow yourself to be "free" is a life skills I think. It seems somewhat immaterials once you have owned a house or been married. Cos people then end their mortgages, sell the house, or divorce in order to be free once again. Cos their judgments were pre-mature in thinking that they can or is ready for it, but they are not. If that makes sense. 

I don't know how to explain it. Just because someone owns a mortgage or a house or have children, they can still definitely be soulfully free.


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## Zeptometer (Dec 5, 2010)

I think it's perfectly normal to date anyone within a quarter of your years apart, with a minimum being 18 for 20 or older, and 14 for younger than that.


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## twoofthree (Aug 6, 2011)

Bago said:


> What you wrote and what Goodwitch wrote as well, is that you seem to want that "lust for life" and that "joyfulness" within a person. You associated this as being part of your age. I am saying that, this has got nothing to do with age. It is a mindset. Which ALL of us can have.
> 
> I was trying to illustrate to you that some couples I have met in my dance classes that they both still lust for each other SO much. Even though they are in their 60s. Their dancing is so dynamic, and you can see the physical attraction between the two of them ? This is why I disregard your comment about that youthfulness as being related to age only. I personally think that everybody has the capacity within themselves to be so joyful and dynamic as a part of themselves. Whether this happy person can have a chance to come out of themselves and be sustained in an environment that nurtures it, is another matter.
> 
> ...


I haven't said that I must have a younger man.
I've said that age isn't important. But it's more _probable_ that one will find such traits in a younger rather than an older person.

Which is why I have a tendency to get along better with younger people. My friends are, mostly, 5 years or more younger than I am.

I've also said that if I found someone with the traits I desire, I would choose them, regardless of age. But I don't have any hope it in happening at all.


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## Goodewitch (Mar 4, 2010)

@Bago,
ithink its great that you've seen older people still enjoying themselves and each other,.. but in my own experience, people in their sixties are indeed mellowing out again, its the middle age range where everyone seems stressed and has the weight of the world on their shoulders.
If i could meet a forty something man that could laugh, joke, and still be romantic and seek magic in life, id certainly date him, but i havent met one.
Again, it seems to be an endless moan fest of ex wives and girlfreinds,.. relationship woes, bitterness, jadedness, and cynicism.
In my experience, the younger men i know dont have this god awful attitude of cynicism,..because it hasnt touched them yet,.. just as it hasnt touched me,.. and I dont see why iI need to settle for some in my mind 'old before his time' guy , who see's me as just yet another woman in his long string of women that he's been having since he was seventeen. 
Again, im well aware of how some people view older women who date younger men,.. and yes, i'd say that if I ever did date a younger man, i wouldnt expect it to last,..but heh, then again, Ive been a lone wolf and wanderer all my life,.. so settling down with someone isnt my priority anyway. As an INFJ ive seen enough trouble and sadness and felt the weight of the world many times,. but if i can wander through life and find young freinds or even companions who lift me up with their laughter and humour and fresh eyes,.. then I shall certainly do that. 
Im into early middle age,.. I find that I care less and less for society's conventions and disapprobation,.. younger or older,..if they have a young sprit, I will be happy to call them freind. 
G. x


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## Bago (Aug 30, 2011)

@Goodewitch - They exist, have hope. They do. Time and place is all key. These kind of people are what I class as "life stylers". Not just corporate clones. Or stepford wives. I suppose I am lucky in the sense that I live in such a city, and therefore I know these people exists. I am not sure where you are, but I know that in the US, Austin is one of those creative place where people indeed are more life stylers than being beaten by life. I know this much. 

(By the way, are you looking for someone to date? I am in contact with an INFJ guy in the US and he is soooo funny ! I can introduce u guys if you are interested. He is in his mid-30s. He paints, and is trying to be a teacher as well. No drama. )

By the way, don't give up!  
I think if I did not meet this INFP guy and triggered another existential episode along with my soul search year out, I would not have believed or wanted to believe that it is possible to find someone so compatible and so forth. Though I am ready and is keen now to do that too. I am surprised but not too surprised if that makes sense. My dating goggles were not on correctly before.


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## Goodewitch (Mar 4, 2010)

Bago said:


> @Goodewitch - They exist, have hope. They do. Time and place is all key. These kind of people are what I class as "life stylers". Not just corporate clones. Or stepford wives. I suppose I am lucky in the sense that I live in such a city, and therefore I know these people exists. I am not sure where you are, but I know that in the US, Austin is one of those creative place where people indeed are more life stylers than being beaten by life. I know this much.
> 
> (By the way, are you looking for someone to date? I am in contact with an INFJ guy in the US and he is soooo funny ! I can introduce u guys if you are interested. He is in his mid-30s. He paints, and is trying to be a teacher as well. No drama. )
> 
> ...


heheh Thankyou Bago , youre too kind. Im afraid I live in England, so unless your artist freind has very long legs, or wings, he would probably be a little far away for me.
Austin you say? Wait a minute,.. I know of a charming 68 year old gentlemen who lived in Austin, I beleive,.he's called Mike Nesmith, and his wooly hat gave me much joy when I was younger,..lol, now theres an older man I wouldnt mind dating,..alas he is married, I beleive 
Im sure 40 something young at heart men do exist, but probably only in Austin,..and certainly not in my neck of the woods. 
Maybe I should move..
G. x


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## Bago (Aug 30, 2011)

Goodewitch said:


> heheh Thankyou Bago , youre too kind. Im afraid I live in England, so unless your artist freind has very long legs, or wings, he would probably be a little far away for me.
> Austin you say? Wait a minute,.. I know of a charming 68 year old gentlemen who lived in Austin, I beleive,.he's called Mike Nesmith, and his wooly hat gave me much joy when I was younger,..lol, now theres an older man I wouldnt mind dating,..alas he is married, I beleive
> Im sure 40 something young at heart men do exist, but probably only in Austin,..and certainly not in my neck of the woods.
> Maybe I should move..
> G. x


I am in the UK too...  I go and salsa dance.
I think you should message me.


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## twoofthree (Aug 6, 2011)

Goodewitch said:


> @Bago,
> ithink its great that you've seen older people still enjoying themselves and each other,.. but in my own experience, people in their sixties are indeed mellowing out again, its the middle age range where everyone seems stressed and has the weight of the world on their shoulders.
> If i could meet a forty something man that could laugh, joke, and still be romantic and seek magic in life, id certainly date him, but i havent met one.
> Again, it seems to be an endless moan fest of ex wives and girlfreinds,.. relationship woes, bitterness, jadedness, and cynicism.
> ...


Again, I can relate to this 100%
We're in similar positions and seem to have similar outlooks.

I'm that lone wolf and I expect to always be that way to some extent. I'm content this way. I live a semi-nomadic lifestyle and will continue to do so, so settling really isn't on the cards for me either.

I don't think I ever cared much for convention and that's what's lead me to where I am now.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

I have decided, personally, that I still think that the age difference between me in my early 30's and someone who is 18/19 is really too much in terms of having an actual relationship. I am on good terms with the person, no problem, just ...yeah, I think from a psychological standpoint the age difference is too much, and I'm pretty sure he agrees.

I've gone back to my original decision that I probably won't have a relationship with any man under the age of 25, but I am at least educated now in my life experience of having a fling with a much younger man, and that it's really not so bad, as long as the individual is of consenting age, of course.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Bago said:


> What is wrong with you ? You should actually date someone your own age.


I don't think this was necessary. If he likes older women, let him experience it and decide for himself.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Bago said:


> @fourtines - Great subject ! I am also in my early 30s and I too recently took a year out to assess my life, which has been great for myself spiritually. *I also met an INFP guy actually who was in his mid-20s. Who I thought was very mature for his age. I cannot believe I fell for him so.* Though, I also did not question the age differences, whereas I did before when I met someone older than I during my late 20s, and he was very patronising towards me and also it freaked me out that the person was so much older for some reason. If I have to reflect and think about things, it is something to do with our own desires, and wanting just what we want, and not to deal with things as well. Though having met this guy, I have started to question my own life, and to see the kind of person that do or is indeed compatible or is suitable for me too.
> 
> *A part of me do miss the fact that I won't grow with somebody now, and to enjoy the banter and the relationship that we grew together with*. I myself was one of those kid who had to deal with some heavier issues as a child, and therefore matured me more than I should for my age too. Plus, I am so certain that I had in some indirect ways been influenced way too much by my parents. Especially my father. As I wanted to make him proud, I behaved like a modern man should, and lived up to his ideals too. I got my financial freedom and this allowed me to be the chooser then the choosee. This is so stupid isn't it ? Cos to me, finding a perfect love is almost as great too. Someone whom I could have encouraged, grown and was a part together throughout the process of growth. I think in the search for this, I probably disregarded some quite good candidates, who is not the best romantic ideals, but they ploughed on to be themselves. Whereas I probably broke myself spiritually by doing so, and forgotten what my ideals were.
> 
> ...


I don't think a five year age difference is too significant (even if it's more like 4-7 years once you are past your mid-twenties) so I'm not sure why you would be freaked out, honestly.

I don't think that it indicates that British women didn't know how to love any more than people today because they fell for some Jamaican men. It happens to people now days, too, they sometimes think they "love" someone they just met, though it is often projection or lust. 

On the other hand, maybe some people ARE quickly compatible, but I still think real love and commitment takes time to grow, which is why you should never marry a person you've known less than a year.

I'm not sure what you mean by you will not grow with somebody now? Do you mean your relationship ended? Or do you think you can't grow with someone within five years of your own age, because I would not say that has been my life experience. I have actually had tremendous growth experiences with men who were reasonably in a few years younger of my own age.

Thank you for sharing your experience!


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## Bago (Aug 30, 2011)

fourtines said:


> I don't think this was necessary. If he likes older women, let him experience it and decide for himself.


You know it. I know it. In my world, the kind of young guy who wanted something to get himself to grow, and the older woman is more vulnerable in this kind of situation. Cos once you date someone, your experience then is more often than not used as a judgment point for future references. So why mislead someone and really kind of mess up someone else's life ? It is very obvious that the guy is not ready for a mature relationship.... Some of these things have to be said. Some people are a kind of "let me try and find out the facts", but others are "I know what it is that I want, but I know you can indeed lie to me to co-erce me into something I think you are offering, but in fact, you are not". 

A lot of people date from fear, self-awareness, fact-finding, and not from being genuineness, feels the relationship, builds on top of it etc...

To me, I don't want to be the kind of woman that encourages a young man "to try it", and mess up some older woman's life, mess her up emotionally, and then mislead her up the garden path, and therefore remove her of any possible chances with anyone else who is so much more suitable for her and means it in a genuine way.


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## Bago (Aug 30, 2011)

fourtines said:


> I don't think a five year age difference is too significant (even if it's more like 4-7 years once you are past your mid-twenties) so I'm not sure why you would be freaked out, honestly.
> 
> I don't think that it indicates that British women didn't know how to love any more than people today because they fell for some Jamaican men. It happens to people now days, too, they sometimes think they "love" someone they just met, though it is often projection or lust.
> 
> ...


To clarify. For me, it is currently 9 years between this guy. What I was trying to say is, although I did not see the age difference at first, but if I must acknowledge it, there is a big difference. My comment about growth, is not one that happens between two people that actually needs to happen anyway in a relationship context, but there is indeed a part of (personal) growth which can only happens with age. Sometimes this kind of sharing of personal growth is also what makes you bond with someone too. 

Projection and lust is indeed what a lot of people do when they cannot remember what it is to love, or how is indeed true love meant to be. It is indeed sad to see that happens, and in a way, it is the culture out there that a lot of people accept and endorse projection in comparison to really truthful relationships, you know? If only everybody is as honest in dating...

For me, I was talking about growing with this guy who is 9 year different to myself. I could see it happen, but he cannot see it happen by the way he talks, act, and reacts. 9 years are a long time, and it means that he has to step up and go through an individuated stage, whereas I have and had done before and the dynamic is not as equal.


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## RRRoooaaaRRR (Jun 18, 2011)

@Goodewitch


> and Im also aware that older women/younger men relationships typically have no future, and are temporary, at best,..so that puts me off dating a younger man,..however,..


Go with the flow  As long as you bear the above in mind. It is nobody elses business. The only thing I would say is to ensure the younger person is secure in who they are and not clingy etc. - in other words emotionally it has to be an even playing field.
Also this is not about an absolute solution but could be fun and interesting if done in the freedom of spirit way.


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## MattNYNC (Sep 22, 2011)

I don't know what it is, but I just don't find that many girls my age attractive. The whole milf/cougar/older woman thing is much more appealing to me because they act more mature, have experience and are just better overall people a vast majority of the time. God, I love MILFs. <3


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

I want to talk about this in more detail now that this has been going on for a couple of months:

THE GOOD

~ I get tons of compliments from him (you're beautiful, you're classy, you have a great body, my friend _____ also thinks you're hot, can I take pictures of you? [and the prompt answer to that is no, because he is an ISTP in his late teens, lest he post them on 4Chan])

~ He has a beautiful body, a beautiful face, he usually smells wonderful unless he's been drinking cheap beer

~ He's super sweet and personable when he wants to be, and the rest of the time is extremely quiet and unintrusive

~ he's very clean (actually has diagnosed OCD and is terrified of things like dirtiness and bad smells)

~ he's almost completely rational and is a clear voice of "reason" despite his age, unless he's very upset or angry, which isn't often; he knows how to talk me down unless he's completely oblivious as to why I'm upset

~ he has never gotten angry with me, and the one or two times he's been annoyed he clams up or slams the door or tells me to give him space instead of yelling or insulting me (he has never insulted me even though I've called him an asshole on one occasion, and told him to fuck off and go to hell on two others); 

~ he's pretty secure in his male dominance for his age, not just sexually but in terms of social/family interaction

~ he's very spontaneous sexually and decent in bed, though he still has to be guided on a few things (I mean, he doesn't have years and years of experience) he's surprisingly seems OLDER in some regards

~ we're friends; he respects me, he's easy going, he has a sense of humor, he treats me with reasonable kindness

~ we both have anxiety spectrum disorders; while I don't have his form of OCD, I have panic attacks and a mood disorder; we can relate on this issue

THE BAD

~ the thought of having a relationship with me terrifies him, although HE KEEPS COMING BACK TO ME even when I've pushed him away...I'm sure that to him the idea of him getting seriously involved with me involves "grown-up" prisons like marriage and children, and since he's also an SP, if he's anything like I was at his age, I understand his fear ...I mean, I don't know that us having a relationship would be a good idea anyway, but it does confuse me that he has this anxiety toward me but won't leave me alone (the spaces between us hooking up have gotten shorter and shorter, and last night he actually BROKE INTO MY ROOM and woke me up and asked me if I would let him get in bed with me)...I think just because I'm female, men who give me large amounts of attention confuse me, even as they're saying the idea of something being serious scares them and isn't on their list of plans

~ I can't seem to resist him, even though the last two times I assured myself I would cut him off the next time he approached me

~ there IS an age difference...I'm used to being around men closer to my own age within five years or so that listen to similar music and remember at least part of the 80's and therefore although we have a nice warm friendship we don't have hours of conversation because of the mental space of our ages, I think; or maybe it's because he isn't comfortable with getting close to me; he said he doesn't want to fall in love because his ex-gf trashed his heart and he's not over her (and I told him that he has no idea how much I understand that it's different to be in love with someone you have that deeper mental connection with, and that it's okay)

~ Even if we did end up in a relationship, I doubt he could give me what I need emotionally and so forth because of his youth and inexperience...every step of the way would be like teaching him things; we might both be miserable

SO...in conclusion, dating a guy in his late teens when I'm in my early 30's is fine in terms of being friends with benefits, or dating casually, or whatever...but a serious relationship is doubtful.

I'm sure this exact age difference might work better between someone in their late 20's and early 40's more than this particular distance.


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## dalsgaard (Aug 14, 2010)

Mendi the ISFJ said:


> I think that there are alot of 30-40 yr old women ending relationships that they jumped into at a young age. One thing i dont like about the stigma is that alot of men really think of the MILF as just a sex toy or financial resource and dont treat women over a certain age with the same respect they would one closer to their own age.


I think the person with the least life-experience is at the greatest disadvantage. There is a relatively higher risk, that the younger of the two could be taken advantage of, simply because they have yet to learn the pitfalls in the dating landscape. I still think that all of this can be done responsibly however, and most relationships I know with an age difference, seem to work fine. I knew a guy once who remarried at 61, and his new wife was 22 years old. They seemed very happy. But it's easy to see how a man or woman with greater experience and more game, is able to fool someone only half his/her own age for personal gain. No one is exempt from that sort of behavior of course, but I should think that the individual with the most experience, is also most able to pull it off.


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## dalsgaard (Aug 14, 2010)

Obsidean said:


> Actually there is a lot of social benefits for an old man to date a young attractive woman, not only for the man. Also, you wouldn't like Australia where the legal age is 16 *gasp*


Here in Denmark, it's 15.

As a 26 year-old I could legally have sex with a 15-year old today.

Uhm... If she were interested in a fat older bloke like me, that is.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

dalsgaard said:


> Here in Denmark, it's 15.
> 
> As a 26 year-old I could legally have sex with a 15-year old today.
> 
> Uhm... If she were interested in a fat older bloke like me, that is.


Fat and old at 26?

It's one thing to say that at 40, to say that at your age is bizarre. 

15 is quite young; while _some_ females might be sexually mature at 15, I doubt very seriously many boys are. 

In some states you can get married at 14 I think, with parental consent. I know that was the case back in the 90s in some of the Southern states. I went to high school with a girl who was pregnant, and yes, married. She and her husband married in Virginia, so it had something to do with the laws there, as opposed to North Carolina.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

dalsgaard said:


> I think the person with the least life-experience is at the greatest disadvantage. There is a relatively higher risk, that the younger of the two could be taken advantage of, simply because they have yet to learn the pitfalls in the dating landscape. I still think that all of this can be done responsibly however, and most relationships I know with an age difference, seem to work fine. I knew a guy once who remarried at 61, and his new wife was 22 years old. They seemed very happy. But it's easy to see how a man or woman with greater experience and more game, is able to fool someone only half his/her own age for personal gain. No one is exempt from that sort of behavior of course, but I should think that the individual with the most experience, is also most able to pull it off.


I disagree with this. I think Mendi has a very good point about younger guys seeing older women as these sex objects to brag about (I have conquered an older, experienced woman and I can do this without any move toward emotional commitment, because she has no feelings, she's older, she can take it) and younger women using older men for money. It does happen.

My grandfather's wife was 22 years younger than him, she did him quite awfully in the last two years of his life. Of course, it had nothing do with her age, she was already past 50 herself, but she was utterly irresponsible about the fact that she had married a MUCH OLDER MAN who *suddenly* became _elderly _while she was still relatively spry. He was always quite strong, tan, and active for his age, so I think it came as quite a shock to her one day that he was actually in his 70's. At the time they married he was around 60 and she was in her late 30's. Anyway, she cried to my mother (who is about her age, only a few years younger) that she just couldn't bear it, she just couldn't stand to take care of him as he was deteriorating. She actually *divorced him* after almost 20 years of marriage. UNFUCKINGBELIEVABLE. I called her one morning and 4 AM just to scream at her before I ceased speaking to her all together.

So, yeah, don't be too hasty in saying the older person has the advantage. This may be commonplace with the idea of men who see younger women as trophy sex objects, or true Cougar women who use young men to just boost their egos...but it's definitely not always the case, and it's ridiculous to say that it is.

In my case, I'm sure my homeboy could hurt me as much I hurt him, but I'm sensitive, anyway. I don't think I'd even want to have sex with him in the first place if I viewed him as being so inferior to me that I could manipulate him without it ever affecting me; that would be a huge turn-off to me in a man of any age.


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## dalsgaard (Aug 14, 2010)

fourtines said:


> Fat and old at 26?
> 
> It's one thing to say that at 40, to say that at your age is bizarre.


I did say I was _older_, not that I was old. But thank you kindly!



> 15 is quite young; while _some_ females might be sexually mature at 15, I doubt very seriously many boys are.


I'm more concerned when it comes to intellectual and emotional maturity.



> In some states you can get married at 14 I think, with parental consent. I know that was the case back in the 90s in some of the Southern states. I went to high school with a girl who was pregnant, and yes, married. She and her husband married in Virginia, so it had something to do with the laws there, as opposed to North Carolina.


Interesting! I don't think that's possible in my country, though. The age of consent being what it is, has been the topic of much discussion. Incidentally, you're also allowed to buy alcohol at age 15, but you're not allowed to drive before you're 18. Danes are very intent on learning to drink before they drive.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

dalsgaard said:


> I'm more concerned when it comes to intellectual and emotional maturity.


I am as well, these are the arguments I always make against ephebophilia. 

It's a weird gray area where the female can potentially menstruate and be pregnant, and the male can ejaculate, but they are ...not really adults yet, even physically, and certainly not mentally.

It's like that teacher who had a baby with that fourteen year old boy. I cannot wrap my head around that. So MUCH takes place in a male between the ages of 14-18/19. WHY? Just why...and to top it all off, they actually married and had another child together, and now he's in his twenties or something anyway....so on one hand it seems like it turned out okay, but I'm still thinking WHO WANTS TO HAVE A BABY WITH A FOURTEEN YEAR OLD BOY?

I always wonder this, as a woman, when I see these cases of female teachers having sex with male students who are as young as 13 to 16 years old. I just don't even get WHY they would be so irresistibly sexually attracted to a boy that young that they'd go to jail and lose their teaching license.

This woman had sex with her 14 year old male student:










The teacher who got in legal trouble for having sex with three 18 year olds, though, I think is wrong. She definitely should NOT be a school teacher, but she shouldn't go to jail for having sex with consenting adults, even if she was a teacher.

Then, from the perspective of older males with adolescent females, I always get the creepy feeling these dudes want some little mindless girl to control and manipulate, which makes me feel sick.


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## dalsgaard (Aug 14, 2010)

fourtines said:


> I disagree with this. I think Mendi has a very good point about younger guys seeing older women as these sex objects to brag about (I have conquered an older, experienced woman and I can do this without any move toward emotional commitment, because she has no feelings, she's older, she can take it) and younger women using older men for money. It does happen.


Oh, come on. How can the person who is alledgedly the most responsible and experienced adult, also be perceived as the one most likely to be a victim? If you have been around, then obviously you're better equipped, and more able to deal with the games others play. It's easy to woo an 18-year old with flattery and shining jewelry, but do it to a 40-year-old and that person is likely to think: "Oh, nice. But I wonder what his/her endgame is".



> My grandfather's wife was 22 years younger than him, she did him quite awfully in the last two years of his life. Of course, it had nothing do with her age, she was already past 50 herself, but she was utterly irresponsible about the fact that she had married a MUCH OLDER MAN who *suddenly* became _elderly _while she was still relatively spry. He was always quite strong, tan, and active for his age, so I think it came as quite a shock to her one day that he was actually in his 70's. At the time they married he was around 60 and she was in her late 30's. Anyway, she cried to my mother (who is about her age, only a few years younger) that she just couldn't bear it, she just couldn't stand to take care of him as he was deteriorating. She actually *divorced him* after almost 20 years of marriage. UNFUCKINGBELIEVABLE. I called her one morning and 4 AM just to scream at her before I ceased speaking to her all together.


How incredibly insensitive! I understand your rightful rage at your grandfathers wife. And point taken, senility is an obvious and most strong exception.



> So, yeah, don't be too hasty in saying the older person has the advantage. This may be commonplace with the idea of men who see younger women as trophy sex objects, or true Cougar women who use young men to just boost their egos...but it's definitely not always the case, and it's ridiculous to say that it is.


Oh, so this is why you are arguing against me? Then you have misunderstood what I wrote, and I'm sorry about that. I didn't mean to say that this is always the case.



> In my case, I'm sure my homeboy could hurt me as much I hurt him, but I'm sensitive, anyway. I don't think I'd even want to have sex with him in the first place if I viewed him as being so inferior to me that I could manipulate him without it ever affecting me; that would be a huge turn-off to me in a man of any age.


Naturally. But it is my experience, and perhaps you do disagree on this matter, that we learn to guard ourselves toward manipulations as we go through life. I definitely have learned a couple of lessons when it comes to trust, and following my heart with the few experiences I've had. I'm sure most would say the same.


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## Sheppard (Jul 4, 2011)

My personal experience has made me wary of people who prey on those less mature than themselves. 

I didn't think much on it when I was a teenage horndog, and man, did I regret that.

And when I became single again, and realized what kind of advantage I had over young women, more profound for me because I had spent so much time with a woman so much older than me, the kind of understanding that comes with years of experience and maturation, how unfairly a relationship of any kind would be skewed in my favor, how easy it would be to take advantage of the power imbalance, I just got more pissed. 

So, I'm not a fan of it. Of an age gap large enough to be a maturation gap. I'm always going to be suspect of the motives of the more mature party, no matter the sex.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

dalsgaard said:


> Oh, come on. How can the person who is alledgedly the most responsible and experienced adult, also be perceived as the one most likely to be a victim? If you have been around, then obviously you're better equipped, and more able to deal with the games others play. It's easy to woo an 18-year old with flattery and shining jewelry, but do it to a 40-year-old and that person is likely to think: "Oh, nice. But I wonder what his/her endgame is".


I think that you are being rather naive and even ageist.

While I agree that there are middle aged people who use younger people as sex trophies, I can doubly reassure you that there are young women who are gold diggers who have no genuine interest in the ugly old men they take presents and money from, etc, et al.






> How incredibly insensitive! I understand your rightful rage at your grandfathers wife. And point taken, senility is an obvious and most strong exception.


I certainly don't think it's the only exception...




> Oh, so this is why you are arguing against me? Then you have misunderstood what I wrote, and I'm sorry about that. I didn't mean to say that this is always the case.


Yes and no. I'm wise enough and experienced enough how callous young people can be when they are manipulative about gain (money usually in the case of females; sex in the case of males) ...I don't have any illusions that all youth are innocent, especially having worked in the adult industry.




> Naturally. But it is my experience, and perhaps you do disagree on this matter, that we learn to guard ourselves toward manipulations as we go through life. I definitely have learned a couple of lessons when it comes to trust, and following my heart with the few experiences I've had. I'm sure most would say the same.


People are mentally and emotionally equipped differently. A highly rational 20 year old may be perfectly capable of manipulating a very emotional 40 year old.

I have argued my point, thoroughly, I believe; I think advantage can be taken on both sides. I believe your own point is just the obvious cases, but to say that this is always or even usually the case is a gross exaggeration on your part, and I'm not sure why you feel this way, unless it's your own fear of having predatory thoughts toward 15 year old girls lol (or bad experiences with peers who use and dump younger women, because this does happen, and I pointed this out in my post about ephebophiles.)

I also want to point out that a person with bipolar disorder can be physically 35, intellectually 45 and emotionally 15. And that's not even wandering into the territory of the truly emotionally stunted, as well as cases of pedophiles who truly do have the emotional mind of a child, basically.

But this is not a thread about pedophilia, and it is specifically about older women with younger men.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Sheppard said:


> I'm always going to be suspect of the motives of the more mature party, no matter the sex.


How unpleasant of you.


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## Sheppard (Jul 4, 2011)

fourtines said:


> How unpleasant of you.


And what are you? The paradigm of understanding?


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## dalsgaard (Aug 14, 2010)

fourtines said:


> I am as well, these are the arguments I always make against ephebophilia.
> 
> It's a weird gray area where the female can potentially menstruate and be pregnant, and the male can ejaculate, but they are ...not really adults yet, even physically, and certainly not mentally.
> 
> ...


What worries me about cases like these: whether a female or male perpetrator, they always claim that it was consensual. Some of the teachers even go so far as calling themselves victims, saying that it was the young girl/boy who seduced them, and that they themselves are innocent. You mentioned the character 'Lolita' in a previous post (Which I applaud you for, it's highly relevant). When reading the book by Nabokov, it's hard to shake the feeling that the manipulation is almost reciprocal. In the first part of the book, Humbert is quite definitely taking advantage of Lolita - but during the second part the dynamic changes significantly, because it's Lolita now holding the secrets. Children, as well as young adults, tend to learn rather quickly. Humbert has to increasingly stay on his toes, and goes to evermore desparate lengths, to satisfy his disgusting needs. I especially recall the scene, where he fights with Lolita trying to get back the change he gave her as payment for his depravity.



> This woman had sex with her 14 year old male student:


What I find interesting in this case, is how the public reacted. She's very beautiful. He's a 14-year old boy. All the typical male bravado and stereotypes, are suddently fired up and ultra-charged. "Oh, yeah.. I feel soooooo sorry for him (Right)". "He ought to congratulate her, not put her in jail". "Damn, I wish I had a teacher like that when I was 14". Comments like that are a problem, because they portray the typical male role, onto a 14-year-old who is essentially nothing more than a child. Or is he? (I ask rhetorically)


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Sheppard said:


> And what are you? The paradigm of understanding?


I just remarking that it's unpleasant to be that suspicious, and to always regard it as "preying." 

You said you spent time with a woman much older than you, did she hurt you in some way, and is this what gave you this opinion?


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## twoofthree (Aug 6, 2011)

Sheppard said:


> So, I'm not a fan of it. Of an age gap large enough to be a maturation gap. I'm always going to be suspect of the motives of the more mature party, no matter the sex.


But age isn't an accurate indicator of maturity once you're beyond the age of 20 or so. So the younger party is sometimes the more mature. And in same-age partners one could be far more mature than the other.

In other words, "age ain't nothing but a number".


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## dalsgaard (Aug 14, 2010)

fourtines said:


> I think that you are being rather naive and even ageist.


I will agree to disagree if you please.




> I believe your own point is just the obvious cases, but to say that this is always or even usually the case is a gross exaggeration on your part, and I'm not sure why you feel this way, unless it's your own fear of having predatory thoughts toward 15 year old girls lol (or bad experiences with peers who use and dump younger women, because this does happen, and I pointed this out in my post about ephebophiles.)


Haha, yes... Those delicious 15-year olds.
I'd perhaps better clarify at this point, that I have no "predatory thoughts" about 15 year-olds, although I'm sure many of them are perfectly delightful to charm, if you're so inclined.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

dalsgaard said:


> What worries me about cases like these: whether a female or male perpetrator, they always claim that it was consensual. Some of the teachers even go so far as calling themselves victims, saying that it was the young girl/boy who seduced them, and that they themselves are innocent. You mentioned the character 'Lolita' in a previous post (Which I applaud you for, it's highly relevant). When reading the book by Nabokov, it's hard to shake the feeling that the manipulation is almost reciprocal. In the first part of the book, Humbert is quite definitely taking advantage of Lolita - but during the second part the dynamic changes significantly, because it's Lolita now holding the secrets. Children, as well as young adults, tend to learn rather quickly. Humbert has to increasingly stay on his toes, and goes to evermore desparate lengths, to satisfy his disgusting needs. I especially recall the scene, where he fights with Lolita trying to get back the change he gave her as payment for his depravity.


It's weird that I've talked to ADULT WOMEN, though, who think _Lolita _is a beautiful love story. Ephebophilia is always going to be one of those strange subjects people fight about, and point to ancient Greece, and African tribes, and Jewish Bar/Batmitzphas and ideas of manhood and womanhood in other cultures.

On the other hand, as I posted earlier in this thread, as of the year 2011 it has been SCIENTIFICALLY confirmed that males are sexually mature at 18. Not at 14. Not at 16.

I'm not sure what the age is for females, but I believe it is 16 or 17. 







> What I find interesting in this case, is how the public reacted. She's very beautiful. He's a 14-year old boy. All the typical male bravado and stereotypes, are suddently fired up and ultra-charged. "Oh, yeah.. I feel soooooo sorry for him (Right)". "He ought to congratulate her, not put her in jail". "Damn, I wish I had a teacher like that when I was 14". Comments like that are a problem, because they portray the typical male role, onto a 14-year-old who is essentially nothing more than a child. Or is he? (I ask rhetorically)


We can only throw opinions at your rhetorical question, which is why it is surely rhetorical. I mean, read the case of Mary Kay Letourneau and Vili Fualaau. He was TWELVE when they began their affair. He became a father at 14, I think. He is now in his 20s and married to her. He has declared that he was not a victim. 

I'm not sure what to think in a case like that.


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## dalsgaard (Aug 14, 2010)

fourtines said:


> It's weird that I've talked to ADULT WOMEN, though, who think _Lolita _is a beautiful love story. Ephebophilia is always going to be one of those strange subjects people fight about, and point to ancient Greece, and African tribes, and Jewish Bar/Batmitzphas and ideas of manhood and womanhood in other cultures.


Good point. Yes, it's odd, and this sort of romanticised attitude toward ephebophilia, seems to be accepted by a lot of people informally, but forwned upon officially. Clips from the 1997 movie interpretation of "Lolita" on youtube, have thousands of comments from women, who say that they would love to have had the actor "Jeremy Irons" prey on them. For instance, I found this comment by a user called misskittykat quite telling: "i wish jeremy irons wanted me like that...oooh﻿ jeremy...  <3". I think this romantic notion is a flawed perception of what many of these reletionships are like. People remember their childhood crushes on teachers and mature men/women, and assume that this is some sort of dream come true - because it's a fulfillment of their past and broken fantasies. But the reality is, of course, quite often completely different from this flowery image of rosery love. People think it's beautiful, because they don't understand that old saying: "Be careful what you wish for". They don't understand, that quite often, children as well as adults have no idea what they want - and if they got what they wanted, they could easily be dissatisfied and even hurt as consequence.



> We can only throw opinions at your rhetorical question, which is why it is surely rhetorical.


Haha, yes in part. It's also meant to hide my own complete bafflement on the subject, as I have absolutely no idea from experience, when someone can rightfully be called responsible for this sort of thing.



> I mean, read the case of Mary Kay Letourneau and Vili Fualaau. He was TWELVE when they began their affair. He became a father at 14, I think. He is now in his 20s and married to her. He has declared that he was not a victim.
> 
> I'm not sure what to think in a case like that.


In that case, I wish them all the best.


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## Mendi the ISFJ (Jul 28, 2011)

dalsgaard said:


> I think the person with the least life-experience is at the greatest disadvantage. There is a relatively higher risk, that the younger of the two could be taken advantage of, simply because they have yet to learn the pitfalls in the dating landscape. I still think that all of this can be done responsibly however, and most relationships I know with an age difference, seem to work fine. I knew a guy once who remarried at 61, and his new wife was 22 years old. They seemed very happy. But it's easy to see how a man or woman with greater experience and more game, is able to fool someone only half his/her own age for personal gain. No one is exempt from that sort of behavior of course, but I should think that the individual with the most experience, is also most able to pull it off.


age doesnt necessarily bring game... in fact if a woman is in a long term relationship with one person they could very well be the only experience theyve ever had. Therefore the young man could easily be the playa in the scenario


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## Goodewitch (Mar 4, 2010)

For those that see the older person as a font of wisdom,of life experience, and therefore always able to be the one to take advantage, i'll just say this.
Ive seen naive and child like 80 year olds in my life.
Ive also seen 10 year olds that could out smart, out mature and out manipulate me 
Age has very little to do with how a person is. Life experience really isnt that much of a factor, when you consider that most people repeat mistakes or jump in regardless of how many times they've been duped.
A trusting, naive person will be that way just as much at 50, as they will be at 20.
The body gets older, but Ive never seen people really mature mentally or emotionally much past what they are at a bout 25.
Just look around at your parents or older relatives, with their screaming arguments, divorces, spiteful ways, mid life crises, Dad dancing at parties, or buying a new penis extention type car, or having a makeover,.... and you see that no one ever really 'grows up'
younger or older,..BOTH are equally in with a chance of being the hurt, or manipulated party.
To suggest that all older people should know better in terms of romance or relationships is unrealistic and a bit ageist.
G. x


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## dalsgaard (Aug 14, 2010)

Goodewitch said:


> For those that see the older person as a font of wisdom,of life experience, and therefore always able to be the one to take advantage, i'll just say this.
> *Ive seen* naive and child like 80 year olds in my life.
> *Ive also seen* 10 year olds that could out smart, out mature and out manipulate me
> Age has very little to do with how a person is.


People tend to be around someone their own age for a very simple reason, Goodewitch: Because age actually has a great deal to say about how a person is. If you're 50+ years old, I think I can safely assume that you don't listen to hiphop. If you're 23, I'll be damned if your hobby includes watching birds through your window and playing bingo. Where is this silly notion coming from? Age determines our interest, our taste in music, our willingness to take risks, our biological desires as well as our personal priorities, our skills - ranging from technical computerskills, to being able to cook...... In fact, I'm hard pressed to find a trait that has _nothing_ to do with age. What am I missing here? How can you people make this argument? All of these things are relevant when it comes to dating, as I'm sure you all know. I also took the liberty of boldening some of the qualifiers in your post, because I think they illustrate my point fairly nicely, as you tend to mention single instances and observations rather than generalized tendencies. I really don't want to seem too cocky about this, but I really am confident that my viewpoint is by far the most realistic one.



> Life experience really isnt that much of a factor, when you consider that *most people* [I doubt this, but I'll leave that one alone] repeat mistakes or jump in regardless of how many times they've been duped.
> A trusting, naive person will be that way just as much at 50, as they will be at 20.
> The body gets older, but Ive never seen people really mature mentally or emotionally much past what they are at a bout 25.
> Just look around at your parents or older relatives, with their screaming arguments, divorces, spiteful ways, mid life crises, Dad dancing at parties, or buying a new penis extention type car, or having a makeover,.... and you see that no one ever really 'grows up'


That's really sad, but I don't think you're giving your parents enough credit here. My father has changed and matured a lot in the past couple of years. In fact, I know plenty of people who at age 65 have confessed, that they have just had great life-changing realizations! Are you basically saying that it's pointles to work towards personal enlightenment once you reach your mid-twenties? What you're essentially saying here, is that all the growth people experience past the 25 year mark is pure delusion, but why is it then, that many 25-year olds spend their waking hours drinking and partying and most 40 year-olds lead more quiet lives? Isn't that a measure of maturity as well? At the very least, it means that people change their priorities. They no longer think it's important to drink every day. Kids have become more important. All the tought lessons have been learned, and now they have settled.



> younger or older,..BOTH are equally in with a chance of being the hurt, or manipulated party.
> To suggest that all older people should know better in terms of romance or relationships is unrealistic and a bit ageist.
> G. x


LOL!
I've never heard the term 'ageism' applied in a debate before, and I have been debating online for 15 years. This is hardly what I'd call 'ageism'. Ageism is when you assume that all people above 60 are senile, or when you say that all people with a certain age is a certain way. This is hardly what I'm saying. I'm saying there's a general trend, and that I acknowledge the fact that not everyone follows this trend. But wow, lets try keeping PC out of this. No one likes discrimination, but that shouldn't impede perceiving reality for what it is. Also, saying 'all 60-year-olds is this way', is an asinine form of discrimination, considering that we will all (Hopefully) be 60 as well in time, but that's beside the point I suppose.

I'm sorry. Your line of argument needs a hell of a lot more argument, and a lot less personal observation to carry weight.


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## dalsgaard (Aug 14, 2010)

Mendi the ISFJ said:


> age doesnt necessarily bring game... in fact if a woman is in a long term relationship with one person they could very well be the only experience theyve ever had. Therefore the young man could easily be the playa in the scenario


Well, yes.
And technically speaking, a 14-year-old boy could outsmart a 40-year old woman with an IQ below 50. There are so many caveats it's astounding. Luckily, I'm not generalizing to the point of saying that this sort of happenstance is an unbreakable rule.


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## Intricate Mystic (Apr 3, 2010)

fourtines said:


> On the other hand, as I posted earlier in this thread, as of the year 2011 it has been SCIENTIFICALLY confirmed that males are sexually mature at 18. Not at 14. Not at 16.


Someone in their late teens will have a prefrontal lobe that isn't fully developed. Therefore, their ability to judge accurately if it's a good idea to get sexually involved with a woman in her early 30's isn't as good as the judgements you can make about the situation. The source I quoted below states that the prefrontal cortex isn't fully mature until age 25. Other sources say it's age 21. In any case, getting involved with a guy in his late teens isn't a level playing field, in my opinion.

"The prefrontal cortex, the part of the frontal lobes lying just behind the forehead, is often referred to as the “CEO of the brain.” This brain region is responsible for cognitive analysis and abstract thought, and the moderation of “correct” behavior in social situations. The prefrontal cortex takes in information from all of the senses and orchestrates thoughts and actions to achieve specific goals.
The prefrontal cortex is one of the last regions of the brain to reach maturation. This delay may help to explain why some adolescents act the way they do. The so-called “executive functions” of the human prefrontal cortex include:


Focusing attention
Organizing thoughts and problem solving
Foreseeing and weighing possible consequences of behavior
Considering the future and making predictions
Forming strategies and planning
Ability to balance short-term rewards with long term goals
Shifting/adjusting behavior when situations change
Impulse control and delaying gratification
Modulation of intense emotions
Inhibiting inappropriate behavior and initiating appropriate behavior
Simultaneously considering multiple streams of information when faced with complex and challenging information
This brain region gives an individual the capacity to exercise “good judgment” when presented with difficult life situations. Brain research indicating that brain development is not complete until near the age of 25, refers specifically to the development of the prefrontal cortex."


Maturation of the Prefrontal Cortex


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## traceur (Jan 19, 2012)

this thread seems to explore a lot of depths to the topic, but i think we also need the shallow perspective for a fuller view: 

dicks salute people, not birth certificates, and by people in mean physical attributes people have.
and modern women are gradually increasing the longevity of their attractive attributes... 

and i can think of a number of reasons:
1) reduced child birth (following reduced infant mortality).
2) advances in care & beauty products.
3) cosmetic treatments & plastic surgery.
4) general improvements in medicine, easily treatable skin infections etc'.
5) shorter time being married (men lifespan increase but women lifepsan decrease).
6) contraception -> more sex (yes it actually increases lifespans, research it!)

basically men might be increasingly dating older women because the difference is less physically noticable.


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## Mendi the ISFJ (Jul 28, 2011)

dalsgaard said:


> Well, yes.
> And technically speaking, a 14-year-old boy could outsmart a 40-year old woman with an IQ below 50. There are so many caveats it's astounding. Luckily, I'm not generalizing to the point of saying that this sort of happenstance is an unbreakable rule.


only you know to the point in which you are generalizing


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

dalsgaard said:


> People tend to be around someone their own age for a very simple reason, Goodewitch: Because age actually has a great deal to say about how a person is. If you're 50+ years old, I think I can safely assume that you don't listen to hiphop. If you're 23, I'll be damned if your hobby includes watching birds through your window and playing bingo. Where is this silly notion coming from? Age determines our interest, our taste in music, our willingness to take risks, our biological desires as well as our personal priorities, our skills - ranging from technical computerskills, to being able to cook......


To being able to cook? There are 50 year old men who can barely boil water and 20 year old girls making gourmet meals and wedding cakes.

Yes, it does affect our taste in music and stuff, and that's the main issue I have found with my FWB situation with this age difference. I am a very culturally focused person. I want to be around men who recognize the same cultural cues that I do, who share my knowledge of music, et al. All of that is mainly Se though (it's interesting to me as an INTJ that you are also an Se type so you may be over-valuing this and not realizing your own blind spot, and that not everyone has yours).

There are people who really are not involved in the culture around them, like they don't know, they couldn't care less, and they might have a great deal in common with someone 20 years older than them. I can't stand it. It would make ME feel very old and bored.

I have more in common with men who are in their late twenties to mid-to-late thirties. 

But I feel VERY STRONGLY that you are exaggerating the importance of age for everyone. Like the following:



> In fact, I'm hard pressed to find a trait that has _nothing_ to do with age.


lolwut?


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Intricate Mystic said:


> Someone in their late teens will have a prefrontal lobe that isn't fully developed. Therefore, their ability to judge accurately if it's a good idea to get sexually involved with a woman in her early 30's isn't as good as the judgements you can make about the situation. The source I quoted below states that the prefrontal cortex isn't fully mature until age 25. Other sources say it's age 21. In any case, getting involved with a guy in his late teens isn't a level playing field, in my opinion.
> 
> "The prefrontal cortex, the part of the frontal lobes lying just behind the forehead, is often referred to as the “CEO of the brain.” This brain region is responsible for cognitive analysis and abstract thought, and the moderation of “correct” behavior in social situations. The prefrontal cortex takes in information from all of the senses and orchestrates thoughts and actions to achieve specific goals.
> The prefrontal cortex is one of the last regions of the brain to reach maturation. This delay may help to explain why some adolescents act the way they do. The so-called “executive functions” of the human prefrontal cortex include:
> ...


We're not arguing about this, the post you're referring to was sexual maturity, and differentiating between a 14 year old and 18 year old, as in some cultures it is advocated that even sexual maturity happens at a younger age.

I could care less of your opinion of how level the "playing field" is because it really does vary from situation to situation. No one is "playing" anyone here, and that is the annoyance I have with some of these posts because they just presume that anyone having a relationship with a younger person is some kind of predator. It's absolutely ridiculous.

But you are entitled to your opinion, and yes, I know about prefrontal cortex development, this is not at all a new concept for me.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Mendi the ISFJ said:


> only you know to the point in which you are generalizing


I disagree. He's saying that 23 year olds don't bird watch...there's this girl on another forum who has bird watching as her main hobby, and I believe she is in her twenties, early thirties at the most.

He's saying that age has to do with cooking and computer skills. That is just fucking retarded. That has to do with things like interests, education, and type of intelligence.


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## Goodewitch (Mar 4, 2010)

dalsgaard said:


> People tend to be around someone their own age for a very simple reason, Goodewitch: Because age actually has a great deal to say about how a person is. If you're 50+ years old, I think I can safely assume that you don't listen to hiphop. If you're 23, I'll be damned if your hobby includes watching birds through your window and playing bingo. Where is this silly notion coming from? Age determines our interest, our taste in music, our willingness to take risks, our biological desires as well as our personal priorities, our skills - ranging from technical computerskills, to being able to cook...... In fact, I'm hard pressed to find a trait that has _nothing_ to do with age. What am I missing here? How can you people make this argument? All of these things are relevant when it comes to dating, as I'm sure you all know. I also took the liberty of boldening some of the qualifiers in your post, because I think they illustrate my point fairly nicely, as you tend to mention single instances and observations rather than generalized tendencies. I really don't want to seem too cocky about this, but I really am confident that my viewpoint is by far the most realistic one.
> 
> 
> That's really sad, but I don't think you're giving your parents enough credit here. My father has changed and matured a lot in the past couple of years. In fact, I know plenty of people who at age 65 have confessed, that they have just had great life-changing realizations! Are you basically saying that it's pointles to work towards personal enlightenment once you reach your mid-twenties? What you're essentially saying here, is that all the growth people experience past the 25 year mark is pure delusion, but why is it then, that many 25-year olds spend their waking hours drinking and partying and most 40 year-olds lead more quiet lives? Isn't that a measure of maturity as well? At the very least, it means that people change their priorities. They no longer think it's important to drink every day. Kids have become more important. All the tought lessons have been learned, and now they have settled.
> ...


 
One of the benefits of age I suppose is to be able to say. 'If i want to arrgue using personal observation, then I damn well will,
Its how I get points across dalsgaard, live with it.
Do i do things differently now Im not 25 anymore?
Sure, I stopped drinking and partying years ago, why? Not because i got older, but because i got bored of it.
Partying, gets old quick, its like reading the same book over and over again. you get bored and you move on.
By your arguments, I should now be sitting in, with my husband and kids, watching soap operas and making the tea, and doing the ironing, maybe a little glass of wine as a treat on a weekend right>
Since when did you adopt such a narrow view how of people are 'supposed' to act, according to their chronological age?
I sit on this computer, and when im not doing that, I'm playing on my games consoles,.. in my home where no husband, or kids are, becuase i never wanted those things.
So am I some kind of anomoly..an exception to your age rule?
i think you'll find there are many people older than 20 who are doing the same things as I am, in fact, my sister and I were discussing Skyrim, the game today, and comparing our characters and their skill sets, shes 46,..is she another anomoly to your age rules?
Her girlfriend is 15 years younger than her, yet that age gap shows no massive communication difficulties, nor lack of things to connect over, in fact their relationship is very loving and more fun than most middle aged couples Ive seen.
My Mother is 78, shes likes nothing better than playing COD multiplayer online,.. and Assassins Creed Multiplayer too,.. perhaps she should be knitting instead?
'Most people' conform to siocieties rules dalsgaard,.. they do what is expected of them. If you see older people acting in what is considered age appropriate ways, I suggest its less about what they are really wanting to do, and more about fitting in within societal expectations of them.
yes , time makes everyone move onto different things, but thats not an age thing, its a 'im bored of this now, i will do something else'. thats why older people arent partying, theyve been there, done that,.. but in matters of relationships, a lot of people do make the same mistakes over and over again. Look around you, this tie with objective eyes, not seeing what you expect to see, but looking at whats really there.
Older people arent any cleverer than young ones, most of humanity never learns lessons when it comes to relationships. Relationships never had anything to do with logic, or experience. they are pot luck.
G. x


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## Intricate Mystic (Apr 3, 2010)

fourtines said:


> I could care less of your opinion of how level the "playing field" is because it really does vary from situation to situation. No one is "playing" anyone here, and that is the annoyance I have with some of these posts because they just presume that anyone having a relationship with a younger person is some kind of predator. It's absolutely ridiculous.
> 
> But you are entitled to your opinion, and yes, I know about prefrontal cortex development, this is not at all a new concept for me.


I wasn't trying to say you are a predator. I just wanted to point out the power differential that could exist when an adult with a fully developed pre-frontal cortex is involved with someone in their late teens.


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## Sheppard (Jul 4, 2011)

Intricate Mystic said:


> I wasn't trying to say you are a predator. I just wanted to point out the power differential that could exist when an adult with a fully developed pre-frontal cortex is involved with someone in their late teens.


*nods*

There's another thing. There's just such a high likely hood of the younger looking up to the older for guidance even if they are on an equal setting maturity wise. I'm not going to dismiss someones opinion if they have a greater pool of experience to draw from. Instead, as a young man, I'd be much more inclined to find some guidance. I can't fault that kind of behavior. It seems natural to me. For a large parts of our lives age is associated with wisdom. Through our parents, and our teachers.

What I wonder, what I'm suspicious about in these kinds of relationships is, why would the older party want that. Why would they want a partner that is inclined to look up to them. To look for guidance, from them. What kind of insecurity feeds that, and the first thing my mind goes to then is attachment. Even in the most benevolent dynamic of this kind, the most benevolant type of power differential dynamic, which would be a sort of caretaker dynamic, you are going to rob the younger party of the chance to make experiences from themselves, to differentiate and learn, and instead it fosters an unhealthy attachment. 

I've been in a relationship with a large age differential, as I've said, and I've said so many things said here, I've said age isn't a measure of experience, and all that matters is how two people feel about each other, but in the end it was simply not true. There came a rude awaking where I realized, that what I didn't have was the chance to make mistakes together with someone and learn from them, together with someone. The chance to grow with someone, equally. A power differential is something that I think is saught after by people who have fears, and fears are something that gets in the way of true emotional intimacy. 

I only have one experience with a woman, and I don't see these relationships a lot, but I see it in men all the time. Men that fear women, men that need power over women, men that go for younger women, who they can control, even if that control is in the form of benevolent guidance, it still is control, the antithesis of trust.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Sheppard said:


> *nods*
> 
> There's another thing. There's just such a high likely hood of the younger looking up to the older for guidance even if they are on an equal setting maturity wise. I'm not going to dismiss someones opinion if they have a greater pool of experience to draw from. Instead, as a young man, I'd be much more inclined to find some guidance. I can't fault that kind of behavior. It seems natural to me. For a large parts of our lives age is associated with wisdom. Through our parents, and our teachers.
> 
> ...


In my case he approached me, and I actually rebuffed his first moves toward me although I felt attracted to him. Then when something did end up happening, I still kind of protested and he argued that it was okay because he was of age. 

I didn't seek him out, I honestly would prefer to be in a relationship with a man who is around my age (a specific person, in fact) and my FWB has a similar issue where there is a woman closer to his age that he is in love with.

We were friends for about a year before this happened, though casually friends, I know his entire family. 

I have zero intentions of leading him, guiding him, or even getting seriously involved with him (nor does he have those intentions toward me) ...as I matter of fact I prefer for the man to be the one in control, as a complete opposite to what you're saying.

Though that may have been your experience, you should probably remember that these sorts of relationships happen to different kinds of individuals with different circumstances, motives, and relationships.

Not only that, but there are younger people who consistently seek out an older person to be involved with.

As adults, this actually could relate to a degree to D/s relationships, though not necessarily. I think in some cases the younger person can be a dom. I know a 25 year old femme domme who has relationships with men in their 40's who are subs.

That's why I don't like these generalizations.

I'm sorry that you got hurt by your older girlfriend, and yes I agree some people (and for whatever reason, more often men) seek out someone they can manipulate and control...but this simply does not apply to all cases.


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## Goodewitch (Mar 4, 2010)

Yes, nods at foutines,.. 
I too have turned away younger men who have been needing a mentor, guide, advisor, counsellor and girlfriend all in one.
My own ethics would not allow me to be in that kind of position of power, as power does corrupt,.. but there have been younger men that I felt had no need of guidance, that didnt look at me as a mommy substitute, or some kind of older and wiser all in one Mother/Crone/Maiden figure.
Similarly, some older men and men my own age that I have dated wanted me to lead too, so there was no definate link between younger men and them needing guidance for me.
Its a valid concern that Sheppard raises, but not one that I would think happens 'in general'.
power dynamics in relationships happen, regardless of age, Ive found.


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## dalsgaard (Aug 14, 2010)

fourtines said:


> To being able to cook? There are 50 year old men who can barely boil water and 20 year old girls making gourmet meals and wedding cakes.


Ok. Maybe that quite literally isn't the case in the US, but: _generally speaking_ my parents are better cooks than I am. I don't know why I have to keep saying this over, and over, and over, and over: Yes. There are exceptions to my rule. But _generally speaking_, if you have lived on this planet longer, you have _as a general rule_ entered more kitchens, and therefore _as a general rule_ you have cooked more. Sure, maybe there are countries where a generation for whatever cultural reason, don't cook at all. But _generally speaking_, I think it's safe to say that they have _generally speaking_. All exceptions allowed to be omitted _generally speaking_.



> Yes, it does affect our taste in music and stuff


_Generally speaking_, yes.



> , and that's the main issue I have found with my FWB situation with this age difference. I am a very culturally focused person. I want to be around men who recognize the same cultural cues that I do, who share my knowledge of music, et al. All of that is mainly Se though (it's interesting to me as an INTJ that you are also an Se type so you may be over-valuing this and not realizing your own blind spot, and that not everyone has yours).


Well, what else is there?



> There are people who really are not involved in the culture around them, like they don't know, they couldn't care less, and they might have a great deal in common with someone 20 years older than them. I can't stand it. It would make ME feel very old and bored.
> 
> I have more in common with men who are in their late twenties to mid-to-late thirties.


Out of curiosity, do you remember the age group you dated when you began dating?



> But I feel VERY STRONGLY that you are exaggerating the importance of age for everyone. Like the following:
> In fact, I'm hard pressed to find a trait that has nothing to do with age.
> lolwut?


I am not saying age is important. I'm saying age tends to determine a lot about our personality _generally speaking_, and therefore it is important to a lot of people _generally speaking_.

If I were to take a sip of my coffee, and say "Damn good coffee!", it helps to have grown up with the show Twin Peaks to grasp the reference _generally speaking_. Ok, bad example, because I do hope everyone has seen Twin Peaks. But you hopefully get my point.


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## Cetanu (Jan 20, 2012)

I like women up to twice my age...


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## dalsgaard (Aug 14, 2010)

fourtines said:


> I disagree. He's saying that 23 year olds don't bird watch.


_Generally speaking_ (Wow, I really do have to write this more).



> ..there's this girl on another forum who has bird watching as her main hobby, and I believe she is in her twenties, early thirties at the most.


_Generally speaking_. You ought not generalize her age, because she does get older you know. It's not like she'll be that age forever, so there are exceptions to her current age.



> He's saying that age has to do with cooking and computer skills. That is just fucking retarded. That has to do with things like interests, education, and type of intelligence.


I covered cooking, so let me say something about computer skills: _generally speaking_, people who didn't grow up with computers, tend to be less proficient. I've worked with IT-support, I can say this with all the certainty I can possibly muster. _Generally speaking_, if you haven't grown up with computers, then you, _generally speaking_, don't know how to operate them as efficiently as those who have (I am positively astounded that I have to point this out. This is just beyond common knowledge to me, it's so obvious I almost can't address it).

People are shaped by the environment they grow up in. The date and year has a lot to do with that environment. A whole lot. I mean, it has a legitimate shitload to do with it.


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## dalsgaard (Aug 14, 2010)

Goodewitch said:


> One of the benefits of age I suppose is to be able to say. 'If i want to arrgue using personal observation, then I damn well will,
> Its how I get points across dalsgaard, live with it.
> Do i do things differently now Im not 25 anymore?
> Sure, I stopped drinking and partying years ago, why? Not because i got older, but because i got bored of it.


Well, that's the same thing, _generally speaking_.



> Partying, gets old quick, its like reading the same book over and over again. you get bored and you move on.
> By your arguments, I should now be sitting in, with my husband and kids, watching soap operas and making the tea, and doing the ironing, maybe a little glass of wine as a treat on a weekend right>


Nooooooooooooo. I'm saying this is what you're probably _likely_ to do. I'm saying don't for the love of all that is boring do that crap. I have no intention of being like that myself. But this is what a lot of people end up doing with age, _generally speaking_.



> Since when did you adopt such a narrow view how of people are 'supposed' to act, according to their chronological age?


Ach....



> I sit on this computer, and when im not doing that, I'm playing on my games consoles,.. in my home where no husband, or kids are, becuase i never wanted those things.
> So am I some kind of anomoly..an exception to your age rule?


Well, yes. As are everyone I should hope. We all differ in areas, _generally speaking_. You know, I like watching and listening to shows and music from the sixties. I wish I could have been at Woodstock, or could have experienced the Apollo landing in 1969. I'd kill to trade places with the generation who was born during the economic boom of the fifties, and had the oppertunity to become hippies. But I don't kid myself for a second. If (Quote) I (Unquote) had been born in the fifties, then "I" wouldn't be "me" would I? And that is part of the point I'm trying to make. Sure, I definitely wouldn't have fulfilled the stereotypes. I don't do that now either. I'm not a carbon copy of the stereotypical generation Y - but it's still a stereotype for a reason.



> i think you'll find there are many people older than 20 who are doing the same things as I am, in fact, my sister and I were discussing Skyrim, the game today, and comparing our characters and their skill sets, shes 46,..is she another anomoly to your age rules?
> Her girlfriend is 15 years younger than her, yet that age gap shows no massive communication difficulties, nor lack of things to connect over, in fact their relationship is very loving and more fun than most middle aged couples Ive seen.
> My Mother is 78, shes likes nothing better than playing COD multiplayer online,.. and Assassins Creed Multiplayer too,.. perhaps she should be knitting instead?


You're awesome! So is your family.



> 'Most people' conform to siocieties rules dalsgaard,.. they do what is expected of them. If you see older people acting in what is considered age appropriate ways, I suggest its less about what they are really wanting to do, and more about fitting in within societal expectations of them.


You know, I mostly agree with this. And people tend to follow the expectations that society puts on them _generally speaking_.



> yes , time makes everyone move onto different things, but thats not an age thing, its a 'im bored of this now, i will do something else'. thats why older people arent partying, theyve been there, done that,.. but in matters of relationships, a lot of people do make the same mistakes over and over again. Look around you, this tie with objective eyes, not seeing what you expect to see, but looking at whats really there.
> Older people arent any cleverer than young ones, most of humanity never learns lessons when it comes to relationships. Relationships never had anything to do with logic, or experience. they are pot luck.
> G. x


You're saying, then, that you're just as clueless entering a relationship as you were when you were 13? Hahahaha!

Oh my, I have no idea what to answer.


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## dalsgaard (Aug 14, 2010)

Another point I'd like to make is this:






Assuming the crowd actually take this music to heart:
That's a Rage Against the Machine concert at PinkPop festival in 1993. Look at the crowd. They are around 20 years old, have long hair, they are rebellious, anti-government and most of them are quite literally raging against the system. How many have since become a product of that same system? How many of the faces, at that concert, are now fathers approaching their forties paying off their mortgage? What would the young people in that video have thought about their future selves?

I'm not trying to be poetic, or say that people are generally conformist, or that people should rage against the system (Ok, actually I am saying that last part). But most of these people have changed, and while they may hold some of the same views, they are most likely not the same people as they used to be. Many of the people in the video probably still listen to Rage Against the Machine, but it's hardly a way of life for the vast majority of them. They listen to it from time to time at social occasions, when they meet old friends who shared the same musical interest. Maybe some of them have joined the system, and are now journalists operating from the inside to bring it down or change it. But I think, that most of them now see it as a passing idealism of their youth. A sort of rebelliousness that just comes with being that age, and that many go through.

EDIT:
Actually, it's quite fitting I think to write this:

And now you do what they told ya
And now you do what they told ya
And now you do what they told ya
And now you do what they told ya
And now you do what they told ya
And now you do what they told ya
And now you do what they told ya
And now you do what they told ya
And now you do what they told ya
And now you do what they told ya
And now you do what they told ya
But now you do what they told ya
Well now you do what they told ya

....... For the record.


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## n2freedom (Jun 2, 2011)

fourtines said:


> I'm sure this exact age difference might work better between someone in their late 20's and early 40's more than this particular distance.


I think seasons of life has more to do with it than age differences. For instance, let's say he is 29 and she's 42. If she has been married, divorced, has kids and is not interested in kids and he doesn't have kids and still wants a family....then there are going to be some inherent problems because their long-term relationship goals are different.

However, if he knows he doesn't want kids and/or already has them then I think that would put them on a more level playing field. That's one of the biggest hurdles I think for developing long term relationships with cubs.....having kids. Fortunately for men, the age range for having kids is much greater.

I feel your pain.


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## Goodewitch (Mar 4, 2010)

@_dalsgaard_ 
I agree with much of what you say, theres no denying we share a similar view on how people end up conforming,..I still do believe though, that ageing in and of itself doesnt bring about these changes in what people do, like you I believe societal pressues play a part, but I believe that they are more important in this than maybe you would agree with.
Every responsibility that people take on, seems to be taken on because theyre in some way pressured or coerced into it, either by peers, families, friends, or even the state.
The pressure to reproduce, to marry, to earn money to spend on said children of reproduction, are all to make a tired, 'old before their time' population of wage slaves, who are then told by retirement age that they are no longer of any use, and must now sit and wait to die basically.
I do thank you for your lovely words about my family.
My Mother is an exceptional woman, who taught us a healthy disrespect for authority and 'the man'
She has never wavered in her free thinking ways,.. she was allowing us to be home schooled before it was fashionable,..she also allowed us to learn what we were interested in,.. and taught us about the world as it is, but also about how it could be,.. she told us that just because someone is older, doesnt mean theyre wiser,.. but that some people are wise regardless of age.
Shes taught us that fun, sillyness, and keeping a child like wonder and optimism are the real joys of being alive and human, she says 'Life was never meant to be miserable, its only miserable now because of greed.'
Shes responsible, debt free, fiercely protective, real good Mom material, but she refuses to 'be old', meaning, she refuses to fit into the mould that society has prepared for her. she was born in 1933 and has lived through WW2 and every technological, and political and cultural advance since then, I find it amazing that shes went from having gas mantle lamps, to full home electricity, cars, videos, TVs, radios, internet,.. and has moved along with every one of them. Its a joy to see her Grandsons and Grandaughters teaching her how to use the laptop, the Ipad, and explaining what the latest internet memes are all about. Lolcatz, the mind set behind 4chan, different musical genres,.. and fashions. shes doesnt want to be 'down with the kids' but she does love to keep up with it all. I often smile to myself when shes out and about on her mobility scooter and shes singing quietly to herself ''Baby you're a firework'. maybe Im spoiled to have such progressive family, we were never brought up with any racial prejudice, or sexual orientation prejudice,.. or sexism or sizeism, or gender role expectations,..maybe thats why I see how the control system we live in effects people so badly, and wears them down and takes their child like spirit away from them, tells them how to 'act their age'. My Mother saw all this, Shes an ENFJ, and always did see behind the facade of society, and things like chronological age.
I admire her greatly.
This woman, nearly 80 years old, has her nine year old grandson singing show tunes and doing song and dance routines, and he in turn teaches her to sing songs by Katy Perry, (hey hes nine, give him a break on his musical taste) Shes sits and watches Lets Plays of computer games on youtube with me a lot, she has favorite Let's players, and likes to watch their game installments rather than the TV, shes never watched a soap opera in her life, and only watches documentaries on TV, or comedians, like Bill Hicks, George Carlin etc. She also taught us people are souls in flesh suits,.. we discard old flesh suits at death, but peoples souls are actually ageless.
Thats the one biggest thing that she taught me, that I live by.
I know not to dress like my 13 year old neice, nor would I want to, I wont date an 18 year old BOY,.. but,.. a 24 or 25 year old who is on the same wavelength as me? Sure, if he is the type of person I like, and I judge his soul to be a good one,.. then Im fine with it.
My mother said 'never be a suit or tie person, never believe money and possessions are where its at, be a free spirit, and treat people kindly'
I cant think of any better philosophy to live by.
My mom looks at some of the men that want to date me, and says, Melissa, you're like a bairn compared to them, meaning.. 'This man in his late forties or fifties is old before his time, he is weighed down by his past mistakes, divorces, bitterness, and love of money and material things' you are a child compared to him in his mindset, dont date him.. 
I agree with her conclusions.
G. x


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## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

fourtines said:


> To being able to cook? There are 50 year old men who can barely boil water and 20 year old girls making gourmet meals and wedding cakes.
> 
> Yes, it does affect our taste in music and stuff, and that's the main issue I have found with my FWB situation with this age difference. I am a very culturally focused person. I want to be around men who recognize the same cultural cues that I do, who share my knowledge of music, et al. All of that is mainly Se though (it's interesting to me as an INTJ that you are also an Se type so you may be over-valuing this and not realizing your own blind spot, and that not everyone has yours).
> 
> ...


Well, I just took the comments with a grain of salt. I mean, basically they are "correlative" but not decisive. Generally, it's safe to assume one will have less in common with someone a generation behind them (as well as typically being in different life stages) than someone IN their generation, so it might be wiser to invest more energy in a demographic with more chance of relational success. 

But I'd say personally for me, while I definitely have been stamped by my growing-up years, I'm pretty adaptable and cross-generational and have interests all over the map, and there are others who are similar. Usually if I don't pay a lot of attention to men twenty years younger than me (aside from the fact it weirds me out because we're starting to venture within a decade of my kids' ages), it's because I'm at a much different life stage, and experience has changed me a lot, and I can't identify as well with someone who has not been through similar experiences. 

I think that sort of "syncing up" is even more important than just syncing up generational interests, for a relationship to work; a relationship supposedly between partners doesn't work as well if one ends up taking a more parental role... both sides will resent it.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

I saw some mention of people wanting to date younger people in order to have more control. That will vary from case to case. I have absolutely seen this and it disgusts me. It disgusts me anytime a person tries to manipulate and control another of any age. They are in a way, taking that person's life away from them.

Not everyone who dates someone younger is doing this though -- not by a long-shot. Different people have different intentions, and not everyone is some creep who wants to control some young submissive naive person, or brainwash them into being the perfect mate.

I have seen cases where it happens, but plenty where it doesn't. The city I come from, older guys regularly exploit the naivety of teen girls on vacation..

But then I have known of a ton of perfectly honest healthy relationships with a large age disparity. This may sound like needle-point philosophy, but its true: you can't help who you fall in love with. 

When I was 23, I fell for someone who was 62.. and I have dated someone as much as 11 years younger than me. I don't think there was any power-play between any of us, except for the younger one trying to dominate at times, which I would just let him do whatever little power-play he wanted most of the time because it didn't affect me but I guess it made him feel better in some way. His personality type pretty much explains why, but I'm not going to disclose it and seem like I'm stereotyping - god forbid. : P

Anyway, as with everything: _its just more complex_ than "older people will always control younger people in a relationship."


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Digger Blue said:


> I cannot speak for older men with really younger women. However, when you are a younger guy and you have a sexual relationship with an older woman, the big issue is unless he is willing to commit to her in marriage, he will eventually break her heart. She may feel very special and sexually desired, but in fairly short order she will conclude that her heart will be broken and break off the relationship. I have a very special place in my heart for her to this day.
> Digger Blue



No, I don't necessarily think so. My ISTP is not in any danger of breaking my heart. While he could potentially hurt me as a person/friend, I simply do not have that much feeling of *in love* for him that he would break my heart.

While we've known each other for over a year, I had a much more mentally close relationship with an ISTJ closer to my age, and our relationship was LARGELY mental (in both the neutral and negative sense ha haha...) anyway...but yeah..I was also in a six year relationship with an ESFJ near my own age where we were best friends.

Best friend guys who I have sexual feelings toward break my heart, not guys that I'm having a mutual understanding with, especially when the age difference means that we simply lack some *click* mentally.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Digger Blue said:


> @TragicallyHip:
> I was strictly speaking of two single people. In my case the ages were 25 and 62. Maybe I was insane, but she and I both had some really good times.
> DB


Wow, okay. 

You are an interesting individual.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

Digger Blue said:


> I cannot speak for older men with really younger women. However, when you are a younger guy and you have a sexual relationship with an older woman, the big issue is unless he is willing to commit to her in marriage, he will eventually break her heart. She may feel very special and sexually desired, but in fairly short order she will conclude that her heart will be broken and break off the relationship. I have a very special place in my heart for her to this day.
> Digger Blue


There is simply no formula that anyone can come up with to predict the likelihood of whos going to break your heart. Age, gender, hair color, astrological sign, personality type.. A person can stereotype, and crunch the numbers, to say: oh what a high risk investment this person must be, romantically.. then have the more smart choice break their heart all the same. Romance is always taking a huge risk, no matter what the persons stats are.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Promethea said:


> There is simply no formula that anyone can come up with to predict the likelihood of whos going to break your heart. Age, gender, hair color, astrological sign, personality type.. A person can stereotype, and crunch the numbers, to say: oh what a high risk investment this person must be, romantically.. then have the more smart choice break their heart all the same. Romance is always taking a huge risk, no matter what the persons stats are.


There's truth to this as well.


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## entpIdeas (Jun 6, 2011)

fourtines said:


> So this has become a trend in porn but also in life, right?
> 
> In some world cultures it's never even been considered to be that strange.
> 
> ...


Sexual peaks are individual. I know a couple irl with 26 years between them. Most functional happy people I've met and there is no lack of sexuality between them. reproduced several times with perfectly normal, intelligent kids.


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## Digger Blue (Dec 1, 2010)

*Holy Matrimony*



twoofthree said:


> I wouldn't expect someone who's liberal enough to date a guy half her age would be overly concerned about _Holy_ Matrimony. . . Or that the conservative church communities would endorse such a relationship.
> 
> If you're not looking to start a family then matrimony becomes less relevant.


Well, I see what you are saying, but I will have to look at it from the other direction: Is there more if you promise your faithfulness to each other before God and witnesses than if you just move in together and shack up, even if both partners are, say, 75? If you have no faith, then you have one answer. If you live by faith and respect God, whatever you stand God to be, then you have another answer. 
Digger Blue


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## twoofthree (Aug 6, 2011)

Digger Blue said:


> Well, I see what you are saying, but I will have to look at it from the other direction: Is there more if you promise your faithfulness to each other before God and witnesses than if you just move in together and shack up, even if both partners are, say, 75? If you have no faith, then you have one answer. If you live by faith and respect God, whatever you stand God to be, then you have another answer.
> Digger Blue


If they're both 75. . .
But what about if she's 55 and he's 30?!

I think if you have faith then you probably have other issues that would stand in the way of such a relationship, anyway.

If all you need is god and witnesses, then you could invite a couple friends around do that over dinner, verbally.


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## 7rr7s (Jun 6, 2011)

I'm currently seeing a woman who's 41. (I'm 24). We get along great, and for some reason I allways seem to get along great with older women in general. I'm attracted to their years, their life experiences, and despite my youth, I can still show them a thing or two, take them places they never thought they'd go ect.. 

Now, someone once told me never to fuck around with a woman over 30 unless you're looking for serious commitment and/or marriage because you're just wasting her time as she has only so many years to settle down and have kids ect. The woman I'm seeing now however dosen't want kids, dosen't have any and is divorced. However, I _still_ made a point to tell her that I'm not looking for anything serious, that marriage isn't on my horizon anytime soon and if she can't agree to something casual then she should delete my number. She's still talking to me.

Her age dosen't bother me, and sometimes it is a turn on. However, I have noticed when we're out in public, we allways seem to draw looks, mostly from women, which I think is interesting. Once, we were out at a bar and I saw these two women in their early 30s keep glancing over at us and whispering among themselves very noticeably. They were probably jealous. Such is life. Anyways, nothing wrong with older women and younger men!


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## snail (Oct 13, 2008)

I tend to choose partners who are either much older or much younger for reasons unrelated to the fact that i am at my sexual peak. In fact, the youngest of my boyfriends have been virgins even after being in relationships with me, because I allow sex to either happen or not happen as it seems fitting. In my case, when I have selected younger men, it hasn't been because they were younger, but because they appealed to me as people. Perhaps I have a slight aversion to people who are too close to my own age, but even that isn't sexually motivated. I just fear them because I have trouble feeling accepted by them.


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## Angua (Jan 3, 2012)

KindOfBlue06 said:


> Now, someone once told me never to fuck around with a woman over 30 unless you're looking for serious commitment and/or marriage because you're just wasting her time as she has only so many years to settle down and have kids ect.


Wow, if you started with me on those subjects I'd have run a mile . But it is hard for some people to get their head around the fact that not every woman feels the need to settle down and reproduce... *starts hyperventilating in paperbag* And if you, after that, have the audacity to date/have an affair/fuck a younger man as well... Let's say that not everyone takes it kindly.


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## Master Mind (Aug 15, 2011)

From conversations I've had, it seems some older women prefer younger men because they're more fun and outgoing, willing to do more things, and can keep up with them sexually, whereas men their own age can't ("waiting for the little blue pill to kick in is not much of a turn on for me," one woman said), and they're often not in as good shape as younger men who are in their physical prime ("beer bellies are not very attractive").



> in terms of sexual potency and pleasure, it is well known that male sexuality tends to peak around the late teenage years, whereas female sexuality tends to peak much later, well into a woman’s late thirties and early forties. So how and why did it transpire that our cultural representations and values do not reflect these facts? By such physiological criteria, as society has steadily moved in the direction of valuing sexual pleasure and not simply reproductive functions, the older woman’s body (if anyone’s) should be eroticized rather than the young adolescent girl’s; our social norms ought to approve of matches between older women and younger men, rather than the double standard of approving only the opposite pairing.


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## Digger Blue (Dec 1, 2010)

"If wishes were horses, beggars would ride." Thus if we could all have the date of our dreams, we'd not be messing around with someone almost old enough or young enough to be another generation. Unfortunately, not all of us have figured that part of life out, but we do all have needs. And, if you're not breaking laws, and each is willing and being honest, then it's really nobody's business but the two involved. 
Digger Blue

PS She taught me so many new positions!


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## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

Master Mind said:


> in terms of sexual potency and pleasure, it is well known that male sexuality tends to peak around the late teenage years, whereas female sexuality tends to peak much later, well into a woman’s late thirties and early forties....



... yeah, that would explain a lot. Sigh. What a lousy time to be single! :tongue:


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## Eliza. Peace to you. (Nov 19, 2011)

It is not something that draws me itself. I appreciate a man's virility at any age, and I enjoy that comfortable feeling of appreciating it, but appreciation is not he same as imagining.... The whole cougar mentality is a turn-off to me. I guess because it seems all about sex alone or using another, a turn-off to me. But as to real genuine in-love relationships, if its true love between the two, it can be another matter, but not without complications. I think of Demi and Ashton -- seemed to be true love, however, we all know how that turned out. What if he wanted many more children? He is young enough... So thats a problem I see. If you are in love and want a child or more children, and the man is in a normal range to do that and parent youthfuly and the woman isn't... a problem. 

So when it works I think its an unusual exception to the rule...

However I have seen one such relationshp like that was quite successful. In my old church a widowed woman pursued a never-married younger man who looked like he would always be a loner, and I had worried for him that he was at times lonely. Apparently she thought so too and pursued him and he quickly fell smitten in love and he completely transformed and came alive. [years later I now realize she is an ENFp, heavy on the E and F and he ISTP, heavy on the I and T, so perfect Duals...). I was asked to be in their little wedding, too. Many were suspicious of the quickness of it and the particularly the age difference, but could not deny that they both seemed extremely in love. I also wondered if it would last. It all happened so fast and intensely and they were such opposites. Certainly she could not keep up with his deep science interest. I got a recent report.. its been several years and they remained constantly and deeply and visibly happy, inseperable and enjoyable to be around; they are known for this now. However, she just got a severe form of cancer, and I really worry for him without her...


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## entpIdeas (Jun 6, 2011)

Eliza. Peace to you. said:


> It is not something that draws me itself. I appreciate a man's virility at any age, and I enjoy that comfortable feeling of appreciating it, but appreciation is not he same as imagining.... The whole cougar mentality is a turn-off to me. I guess because it seems all about sex alone or using another, a turn-off to me. But as to real genuine in-love relationships, if its true love between the two, it can be another matter, but not without complications. I think of Demi and Ashton -- seemed to be true love, however, we all know how that turned out. What if he wanted many more children? He is young enough... So thats a problem I see. If you are in love and want a child or more children, and the man is in a normal range to do that and parent youthfuly and the woman isn't... a problem.
> 
> So when it works I think its an unusual exception to the rule...
> 
> However I have seen one such relationshp like that was quite successful. In my old church a widowed woman pursued a never-married younger man who looked like he would always be a loner, and I had worried for him that he was at times lonely. Apparently she thought so too and pursued him and he quickly fell smitten in love and he completely transformed and came alive. [years later I now realize she is an ENFp, heavy on the E and F and he ISTP, heavy on the I and T, so perfect Duals...). I was asked to be in their little wedding, too. Many were suspicious of the quickness of it and the particularly the age difference, but could not deny that they both seemed extremely in love. I also wondered if it would last. It all happened so fast and intensely and they were such opposites. Certainly she could not keep up with his deep science interest. I got a recent report.. its been several years and they remained constantly and deeply and visibly happy, inseperable and enjoyable to be around; they are known for this now. However, she just got a severe form of cancer, and I really worry for him without her...


for some reason this little story prompted a very strong emotional response in me, I am actually quite disturbed by the intensity of my reaction.


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## Eliza. Peace to you. (Nov 19, 2011)

Had thoughts on this topic today while I was at the health food store*, stocking up on what I need to look and feel younger than i am  because I am a woman and we work at this, and was asked if I needed help by a good-looking healthy younger man who I would say is in "full virile manhood" and I realized later that I treasure a look of appreciation from a younger man. I would find it a little creepy if it were a come-on, but I don't get that generally. I think you get what you invite and I don't invite that.



entpIdeas said:


> for some reason this little story prompted a very strong emotional response in me, I am actually quite disturbed by the intensity of my reaction.


How dear! I wonder if its the "t" in you that makes you disturbed by your reaction? I only got that once that I can think of, and its when I left my ISTP whom I had just met after a long correspondance. It was very disturbing to feel so much and have it get exponentially worse with time and distance...

Yes, its a lovely story and I need to surprise them with a call - I dread the possibility of intruding on a terrible moment, but must overcome that - and make a visit after all these years. I really ought to. entpIdeas, there must be something in the story that touches your life personally... or it may mean something... like perhaps true love awaits to surprise you somewhere and sometime when you are least expecting it... 

A couple months after the meeting of my ISTP mentioned above, something he wrote tipped off a fear in me _that something might happen to him before we ever had a chance to get together_, and I felt struck a sudden heaviness that would not go away. And when I went to bed, free of responibilities and alone, I wept over this... It made me realize just how much he had come to mean to me...

_________________
*oh I wanted to add my find there for the day. I am on a limited diet right now so there are not too many ways I can indulge myself. But coffee with heavy cream is allowed! I tried a new brand: Boulder, and brewed a cup, and am sipping it now. OMIGOSH this coffee is AMAZING! So smooth, so nutty, so roasty-toasty-smokey! What a treat!


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## twoofthree (Aug 6, 2011)

Jennywocky said:


> ... yeah, that would explain a lot. Sigh. What a lousy time to be single! :tongue:


I had my first FWB when I was 31ish; he was about 10 years younger. Part of my thinking was that I didn't want to waste my prime, since I wouldn't ever get it back.


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## LostWorld (Feb 4, 2012)

I really dont understand the concept I have a sibling thats 24 and his spouse is 36.Also has 3 other kids from another marriage ,and my brother takes full responsibility of taking care of them full on....props to him.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

I went out with a guy closer to my age last night (he's still a couple years younger than me, but in his late twenties, and more in my age group) and it became abundantly clear what was missing with my much younger FWB, even with a guy I barely know. We had more in common - we like the same music, I was impressed with his knowledge of cheesy 70's soft rock, for some reason guys who know their niche oldies from the 70's-80's always impress me lol. Anyway, yeah, we didn't even have sex but we made out and took a shower together and I washed his hair for him. 

One date with a new guy closer to my own age made it glaringly apparent EXACTLY what is missing with the bigger age gap, aside from the predictable life-stage things like he's been to college, traveled and has a career. 

I like this new guy, but I don't want to jinx it...however, I have a feeling that if we do have sex in the future, even that part of it would be better.


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## Digger Blue (Dec 1, 2010)

fourtines said:


> Anyway, yeah, we didn't even have sex but we made out and took a shower together and I washed his hair for him.
> 
> One date with a new guy closer to my own age made it glaringly apparent EXACTLY what is missing with the bigger age gap, aside from the predictable life-stage things like he's been to college, traveled and has a career.


Sounds like a great way to get clean!
Digger Blue


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## MereMortal (Feb 18, 2012)

My brother is 21 and his girlfriend turns 37 this year. This makes her *closer to our parents' age than his*. I think it's totally weird, but they're both happy, so no harm done.


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## HappyHours (Sep 16, 2011)

from my experiences, the best sex I have ever had has come from older women, seriously, screwed this one 30 year old lady, best fuck ever!

older women who are fit = complete win

COUGARS and MILFs for the win man!


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## MyDarkAngel (Mar 23, 2012)

Snakecharmer said:


> Very good topic. I've been thinking about this lately, with the stories in the news about JLo and other celebrities being involved with MUCH younger men.
> 
> I'm 41, and I'm okay with 10 +/-. No lower or higher, in general.


I definitely had to do a double-take on this. I thought you meant 10 years old at first glance. lol


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## alexande (Jan 8, 2012)

I have no problem being with older woman but I won't go over 50(my mothers age).


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

HappyHours said:


> from my experiences, the best sex I have ever had has come from older women, seriously, screwed this one 30 year old lady, best fuck ever!
> older women who are fit = complete win
> COUGARS and MILFs for the win man!


older women have higher sex drives, are more experienced and willing to do more than giggly little 20 year old women who are inexperienced and usually lack the confidence to try more riskay things in the bed room.


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## Digger Blue (Dec 1, 2010)

I recommend that all of you watch the great movie, "Miss Pettigrew Lives for a Day." She talks about how young people flit about with love. When a young man asks an older woman to make love, he is affirming her sexuallity, her desirability, and she, as a woman cannot help but wrapping her heart around the situation. This is a recipe for disaster for her vs simply a good fuck for the guy. Biologically and by way of evolution, we are very different. Biologically, for a young guy, scoring in bed is everything. A woman, on the other hand, has many defenses built in which she must let down before she will allow coitus. Biological success for a woman requires that she come to terms with the ability of the man to provide a stable relationship, provide for her need financially, provide affection for her, and make her feel at ease, and offer her some permanency. 
Having stated the above, I would say that both individuals should be cautious, and move slowly before plunging in. Both partners have a need for physical expression of love. When both are consenting, they are both seeking to meet their own needs which are probably not the same, but both important. The difference in ages does cause different perspectives, thus making long term relationship rather doubtful, especially if the younger partner is male. 
Final note: If I had it to do again, I'd do it again. I do miss her!
Digger Blue


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## JoeChip (Feb 28, 2012)

It makes sense that younger men are drawn to older women, mainly because younger men have been on a downhill slide for the past several years. An interesting article on this trend:
The Sorry Lives and Confusing Times of Today's Young Men - Philadelphia Magazine - phillymag.com

As the statistics show, many more 18-29 year old "boys" (not men lol) still live with their parents, do not have jobs/careers, have no degree and play videogames and wank to porn. 

Women in their peer age group are generally much, much better off as they have degrees, jobs and many have moved out of mom & dad's already. So this leaves the 20-something men basically unfit for boyfriend duty by their own peer group females.

With older women, most are self-sufficient or otherwise not looking for stability or financial support. So a young loser is an attractive offering for sex vs. a valid choice of mate, and given these boys aren't fairing too well with their own age group, it works for them as well.


It's sad though. Back in the prehistoric times when I was in my 20's, I definitely didn't want some 40-60 something woman. I had too many hot 20-somethings I was chasing around. Of course, I had multiple degrees, a good paying career, and my own place.


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## Digger Blue (Dec 1, 2010)

JoeChip said:


> It's sad though. Back in the prehistoric times when I was in my 20's, I definitely didn't want some 40-60 something woman. I had too many hot 20-somethings I was chasing around. Of course, I had multiple degrees, a good paying career, and my own place.


Same here, only I had my chauffeur drive us around in the stretched Cadillac Limo and there was always the Lear Jet if we were in a hurry. 
Digger Blue


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Digger Blue said:


> Same here, only I had my chauffeur drive us around in the stretched Cadillac Limo and there was always the Lear Jet if we were in a hurry.
> Digger Blue


Saying this makes you sound kind of pretentious, and it was totally unnecessary.


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## Peripheral (Jan 8, 2011)

JoeChip said:


> It makes sense that younger men are drawn to older women, mainly because younger men have been on a downhill slide for the past several years. An interesting article on this trend:
> The Sorry Lives and Confusing Times of Today's Young Men - Philadelphia Magazine - phillymag.com
> 
> As the statistics show, many more 18-29 year old "boys" (not men lol) still live with their parents, do not have jobs/careers, have no degree and play videogames and wank to porn.
> ...


20 something girls now and 20 something girls then are worlds apart. Not to mention the economic situation happening now.


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## Digger Blue (Dec 1, 2010)

fourtines said:


> Saying this makes you sound kind of pretentious, and it was totally unnecessary.


Fourtines: Yes, you are quite correct. Nobody'd have believed the truth. It was actually a Stretched Limo E-Type Jaguar. I have to admit that the hot tub in the trunk was quite small. And the plane was actually a bit bigger than a Lear Jet. When we got married we sold it off to the government where it was extensively refitted and given the name "Air Force 1". The truth does actually have a ring of its own, right?!


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## Mutatio NOmenis (Jun 22, 2009)

fourtines said:


> So this has become a trend in porn but also in life, right?
> 
> In some world cultures it's never even been considered to be that strange.


Sauce please? It's become more common in porn over several years now. Of course, nobody will believe that those guys are really 19.



fourtines said:


> I think older men/younger women has always been rationalized by Western culture in terms of biology, that older men are more financially stable and younger women are more fertile...but are they really?


Yes, really. Not all that long ago marriage for practicality rather than love was considered perfectly normal. It wasn't until more recently that marriage came to be viewed as the main source of love with romantic bonding deemed the most important aspect.



fourtines said:


> Women hit their sexual peak sometime in their 30's through their early 40's. It's God's little joke that 35 year old women have a similar sex drive to 18 year old guys. Men hit their sexual peak in their late teens through their 20's. So is it actually BIOLOGY that is causing this MILF trend? Is this actually because of sexual congruency on some physical level?


The Platypus, the male 2 heads but only enough blood for 1, and ENFP's are God's jokes. Women not sexually peaking until middle age is just being plain cruel. The MILF trend is caused by change in society where love instead of practicality is considered the main factor in marriage. Ben Franklin also advocated for older female mistresses, because they could keep secrets and fuck w ell. Also, dating a younger and physically healthier partner makes one feel sexier and distracts from mortality.



fourtines said:


> Of course, on the other hand it doesn't explain women in their 40s and 50s dating guys in their 20s, because those women are at the end of their sexual peak or past it by 45.


Peak doesn't mean only time they have any sexuality. I've run into some rather dirty old ladies. I still think they want a sexy energetic partner.



fourtines said:


> Freud? Biology?


Freud and Biology. Menopause isn't until the mid 50's, and in historical eras, people often waited longer to marry because they had to get enough means to support themselves first. It could be women approaching menopause are looking for the best possible last hope to produce healthy children with a productive father.



fourtines said:


> Or has it been okay all along for anyone between the ages of 15-55 to mate and society has just put unreasonable standards on us?


I wouldn't date anyone over twice my age, and I wouldn't have sex with somebody older than my mother. It's just a bit too old. Truthfully I think it's slightly kreepy, It's fine biologically, but there have never been so many single emancipated lusty women in their 50's before. Since sex was often bundled with marriage, guys still targeted the young one. However, in some cultures, older women were used for sexual initiation due to lower risk of pregnancy and experience in sexual matters. And there have been exceptions. Katherine the Great took lovers who had been playmates of her children. Muhammed married Khadija. He was 25. She was 40. I'd go for a woman in her 40's for a fling, but a relationship with someone much older than myself would be highly problematic because we are from different generations and at totally different points in life.



fourtines said:


> In very extreme cases, like 70-something Hugh Heffner and his wives in their late 20's and early 30's that seems to have more to do with social status than biology. Children and the elderly really aren't biologically attractive, for the simple fact that they either cannot reproduce, or don't reproduce as well or as safely.


Part of the allure of older women in the past was that they were bound to be horny, available, and not prone to getting knocked up. It was a good way for a young man to be sexually initiated outside of marriage while avoiding the scandal and problems of young unwed single mothers.



fourtines said:


> Now I'm thinking of _Harold and Maude _where that 17-18 year old guy falls in love with a woman in her late 60's, but that's pretty extreme, and similar to the Hugh Heffner example where it seems to have absolutely no basis what-so-ever in biology (and really, does that ever happen IRL? Because that's totally a movie...)


I'd rather my lover not die on me when I'm 25, or have to spend their last days slowly dying in a nursing home.


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## wiarumas (Aug 27, 2010)

Not sure if this has been posted... bringing some science into the thread. Its always grounded in reproduction. The human body always wants to produce as much children as nature permits:

-Younger women are more fertile. They don't need as much sex to get pregnant. Thus, lower sex drive.

-Older women are less fertile. They need to have much more sex to get pregnant. Thus, higher sex drive.

You also see a lot more twins coming from older women. Its nature's way of producing more offspring.

Men's sex drive decreases with time. They are less effective at fatherhood as age goes on - shorter life to live, not as strong/healthy, etc. A 20 something year old can chase after toddlers much better than a 50 year old.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Digger Blue said:


> Fourtines: Yes, you are quite correct. Nobody'd have believed the truth. It was actually a Stretched Limo E-Type Jaguar. I have to admit that the hot tub in the trunk was quite small. And the plane was actually a bit bigger than a Lear Jet. When we got married we sold it off to the government where it was extensively refitted and given the name "Air Force 1". The truth does actually have a ring of its own, right?!


Yes but it has nothing to do with the thread and just looks like pretentious bragging.

I mean the guy above you was bad enough, mocking young men, and talking about how he was chasing 20-something successful in his twenties, but your comment was just absurd.


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## Digger Blue (Dec 1, 2010)

fourtines said:


> Yes but it has nothing to do with the thread and just looks like pretentious bragging.
> 
> I mean the guy above you was bad enough, mocking young men, and talking about how he was chasing 20-something successful in his twenties, but your comment was just absurd.


Fourtines, my dear, I was using a wee bit of sarcasm against his comment. Just lighten up for the love of Pete. If you were to make a stretch limo out of an E-Type Jaguar, you'd have a hot tub big enough to each dip a toe in. It'd amount to a terrible waste of an E-Type. Oh, and another thing. I never did own the plane that became Air Force 1, whether you believe that or not. You may now relax and get your undies out of the terrible bundle they seem to be in. 

And now, for something* completely* _*different*_, brought to you by that ESFP himself, live at the keyboard. . . . .


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Digger Blue said:


> Fourtines, my dear, I was using a wee bit of sarcasm against his comment. Just lighten up for the love of Pete. If you were to make a stretch limo out of an E-Type Jaguar, you'd have a hot tub big enough to each dip a toe in. It'd amount to a terrible waste of an E-Type. Oh, and another thing. I never did own the plane that became Air Force 1, whether you believe that or not. You may now relax and get your undies out of the terrible bundle they seem to be in.
> 
> And now, for something* completely* _*different*_, brought to you by that ESFP himself, live at the keyboard. . . . .


Oh you were making fun of that guy. 

Ha ha ha.


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## NaughyChimp (Jun 20, 2011)

Mutatio NOmenis said:


> The Platypus, the male 2 heads but only enough blood for 1, and *ENFP's are God's jokes*.


 Huh? Sorry... what am I missing here? Please explain how I'm one of God's jokes...


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## Mutatio NOmenis (Jun 22, 2009)

^ The Platypus looks really funny.

A man has two heads: a head with a brain and his cock head. There is only enough blood to think with one at a time.


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## Digger Blue (Dec 1, 2010)

Mutatio NOmenis said:


> ^ The Platypus looks really funny.
> 
> A man has two heads: a head with a brain and his cock head. There is only enough blood to think with one at a time.


It is your perspective that the Platypus looks funny. To a male platypus, the female platypus is a knockout. 
As to the anatomy/physiology of the human knowledge, it is relatively common knowledge. I try to make best use of each head when the opportunity arrives. One does seem to get more action than the other, however. 
DB


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## NaughyChimp (Jun 20, 2011)

Mutatio NOmenis said:


> ^ The Platypus looks really funny.
> 
> A man has two heads: a head with a brain and his cock head. There is only enough blood to think with one at a time.


 And... I'm still waiting for my answer.


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