# Se vs Ne: What's the Difference?



## SheWolf (Apr 17, 2015)

Okay, so, I really need help distinguishing Se vs Ne. Mostly so I can help determine if I'm an INFP or ISFP. I KNOW I'm a Fi-dom, so debating that is out of the question.

Personally, just from what I do understand, I think I'm ISFP. I know what I want for my future and I have a habit of viewing where my future is headed in a "one-way-street" sort of way which would point at tertiary Ni. I don't see "several possibilities" for my future like I think Ne would. I also don't spend a _whole_ lot of time reflecting on my future, to be honest. It's more generalities though I have known exactly what I wanted to do with my life since I was a little girl (veterinarian.)

BUT,

I'm awfully dreamy. It could be my Enneagram 4w3, I don't know... but I spend an awful lot of time in my own fantasy world. I can be somewhat idealistic, perhaps? But, then again, I know the realities of life too.

I heard the explanation that Ne sees objects "indirectly" and Se sees objects "directly."
I can't wrap my head around the seeing objects "indirectly" part.... I mean, how do you see an object indirectly? Perhaps that would be a good indicator of Se in me?

I could see a pretty good amount of Tert Si in me. I do have a tendency to relate the stories of others to something I've experienced. BUT, I think Se can do this some, too. After all, Sensing in general is all about experiences.

Help?


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## Aelthwyn (Oct 27, 2010)

A couple similar recent threads:
http://personalitycafe.com/myers-briggs-forum/777362-how-tell-apart-nfps-sfps.html

http://personalitycafe.com/cognitive-functions/779778-not-sure-if-ne-se.html

http://personalitycafe.com/myers-briggs-forum/781450-simple-every-day-differences-between-infp-isfp.html


I'm INFP and regarding my future, personally I always knew I wanted to be a 'home-maker' and mother. But other than that I've never been one for picturing or planning my future in more detail. I might have very short-lived 'day dreams' that are vague pictures of me in some hypothetical house - like what if we built a tree house to live in, or what if we moved to scotland, or other things that sound nice, but it's like a couple of minutes here and there, definitely not the bulk of my imaginings. 

From my experience ISFPs seem to be more energized by actual, first hand, or novel experiences than INFPs who seem to be more energized by imagining hypothetical things. I _feel_ like ISFPs have a bit stronger drive to bring their ideas to life, while INFPs can almost seem satisfied enough just by planning and the mental experience of imagining - not that we don't both procrastinate, and not that INFPs never actually do anything, but... like... it feels like for an ISFP there's a lot less satisfaction in the idea itself without manifestation, where INFPs seem to love mulling over something a lot longer as though enchanted with the Idea in and of itself. 

INFPs seem more into telling eachother about something they experienced, finding some fun in the process of thinking of a good way to describe it or in mentally imagining what the person is telling them, while ISFPs seem more likely to be like 'you have to come TRY this, SEE this, HEAR this etc,' they're less interested in telling you about their experience of it, they want to show you, to share it with you by seeing you get the experience first hand for yourself.

regarding seeing objects directly and indirectly..... I think perhaps what is meant is something like:
Directly: what IS it, what are its components, what can be done with it, how does it work
Indirectly: what does it represent, why is it here, what is its significance, how does it relate to other things 

Maybe? I'm not entirely sure.


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## SheWolf (Apr 17, 2015)

Aelthwyn said:


> A couple similar recent threads:
> http://personalitycafe.com/myers-briggs-forum/777362-how-tell-apart-nfps-sfps.html
> 
> http://personalitycafe.com/cognitive-functions/779778-not-sure-if-ne-se.html
> ...



Hm. Yeah, I can get caught up in ideas sometimes, but not quite like you describe yourself as doing.

Me? I don't really talk about my experiences in great detail. I have friends that do, but... eh. 
When I was little if I wanted to do something it was never enough for me to just imagine it. I wanted it to be real. I wanted to ride horses so I pestered my sister/mom until they found me a place to take lessons. I wanted to act, signed up for acting camps. I still do all these things today. I had an ENFP explain to me that she literally just likes the thought of going to London. That.... doesn't make sense to me? How could just like the thought of going to London? Whenever I think of something like that, I think of it with the intention that one day I'm gonna actually do it.

Even simple things like, me wanting to learn to knit. I saw some cool project on my Pinterest one day and said, "I wanna learn to knit!" so what did I do? I went and bought some needles, yarn, and a project book the next day and learned through watching YouTube. I didn't stop there! I wanted to crochet, too! Same thing.

In fact, the thought of wanting to do something and not being able to actually DO it is nearly crushing to me.

I remember someone asking me what it's like to ride a horse. I started off with, "Well... it feels like you're flying and it's just so much fun and... gah! You just have to TRY it, man!"

Also, I just read the simple differences thread and how you noticed how ISFP's "bounce back" from things better. I'd say that's me. I've had some tragedy in my life but.... It didn't affect me terribly long. 

Also, when I'm at a friend's house, I get horribly bored just sitting there. Horribly. It's awkward to me, almost? Like don't get me wrong I can have a conversation about things! But I have a couple friends who are literally content just "chilling" in their rooms, talking or on the phone or something. Like... no. Let's go for a walk! Or maybe grab something to eat? If we can't leave the house can we at least play video games? I love video gaming actually. 

Also, I want to know what you mean by NFP "idea generation?"
I can come up with ideas, but I'm more hesitant to share them. Could that be a Tertiary Ni thing?

As for my feelings? I don't share them readily. I used to believe I was a Thinking type, actually. I used to write a lot of poetry. I don't as much anymore, though I admit I'm a pretty gifted writer. But I only write when I _"feel"_ like it. I wouldn't be the type to sit down and write a book. That sounds... boring. It would take me several years to write a book probably. Lol.

I'm pretty darn good at noticing details of things, too. When talking to people, I take note of their outfits, their hair, their tones of voice, etc. Not in a superficial or judging way, just... noticing.

I'm pretty stimulated by the thrill of action, too. Like... when I hear there's a supposedly bad storm coming. My sister is terrified of storms. I've always been "lowkey" excited by them. In fact, I've gone low-level storm chasing with a friend of mine before. It's so... exciting! What a rush! 

I think physical challenges are probably more interesting to me than mental. Though, I do some "Ne-like" qualities in how I will relate things to one another. I think it depends on what you mean by "mental challenge."

For example, my theater appreciation class. We were supposed to watch movies and uncover their hidden meanings, themes, patterns, etc.
This was kind of annoying to me. I was much better at the black-and-white "textbook" part of the class than the abstractions. I had the same teacher for English 101. I loved him, but I wasn't particularly fond of how he was never satisfied with how I didn't elaborate deeply enough with abstractions.

Sometimes I'll think of something stupid like, "Ever wonder why pink is associate with females and blue with males? Who thought that up? Why is pink a "girly" color and blue a "manly" color? Huh...." but those sorts of thoughts never last long.


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

Se and Ne can both be impulsive, it's just Se is the most impulsive. Se is physical-concrete. Ne is imagination-abstract. Se and Ne both like feeling excitement. Se- excited by physical/concrete ideas/impulses, or physical possibilities. Ne- excited about their abstract explosion of ideas. Ne users like pondering these many ideas out loud with others. Ne is non-linear so they sound random to non-ne users/low ne-users. But Se wants to do physical things RIGHT NOW without imaging them first. Ne wants to imagine all of the abstract possibilities first and then try them all out.

So are you an abstract or concrete thinker?


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## floatingpoint (Dec 30, 2015)

I'm no expert at this stuff, but from what I've observed there's a huge bias towards sensors in the Myers-Briggs community. People make it sound like sensors are all concrete and like they're incapable of abstraction, which is total bullshit. 

Since you're deciding between two auxiliary functions, I think it's important to note that you're already starting from this place of introverted feeling, processing the world through your feelings and values. Now the question is do you apply your feelings and values more to the physical world, to create something beautiful that reflects the way you feel inside? Remember that ISFP is an artisan type, a maker. (so for instance if you loved interior design, gardening, baking, making art, dancing, etc). 

Or do you apply your feelings and values more to the world of ideas, getting really interested in theoretical stuff like the humanities or global affairs or the understanding how culture shapes our relationships, etc? (a love of history/literature/philosophy, the propensity to have long, random conversations, wasting loads of time just thinking -- less about hobbies and more strictly cognitive). Remember that INFPs are idealists, which suggests that they focus not just on possibilities, but on things that don't exist tangibly, a focus on ideas over the real world. 

Another way to think about this is what types do you find yourself gravitating to, romantically? Usually sensors tend to like sensors and intuitives like intuitives. Just a generalization, of course. But personally as an NF, SJs and sometimes SPs tend to get a little frustrated by my need to talk about ideas all day long.


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## Natarajasana (Jun 26, 2015)

@Vespera - This is unlikely to help you in your journey.. but like you said to me when I was confused, I'll say the same to you: I very much relate to the way you describe yourself and your thoughts, and have a feeling that we are the same type.



Vespera said:


> Hm. Yeah, I can get caught up in ideas sometimes, but not quite like you describe yourself as doing.
> 
> When I was little if I wanted to do something it was never enough for me to just imagine it. I wanted it to be real. I wanted to ride horses so I pestered my sister/mom until they found me a place to take lessons. I wanted to act, signed up for acting camps. I still do all these things today. I had an ENFP explain to me that she literally just likes the thought of going to London. That.... doesn't make sense to me? How could just like the thought of going to London? Whenever I think of something like that, I think of it with the intention that one day I'm gonna actually do it.
> 
> ...


I could have written most of this post, haha. And especially the part of not understanding how having an idea without following through can be enough. For example, my husband starts looking at travel trailers and test driving them: I get excited, and map out all our future vacations in my head, all the places we'll go, the things we'll do!! Yes!! Then he says, "I'm just dreaming, we aren't actually getting one...." He says that imagining it and entertaining the possibility makes him okay with the fact that we can't actually ever get one. (And he's only got tertiary Ne!!) I, however am crushed. Completely heartbroken. Why would we even talk about something if we aren't going to do it? 

And your knitting and horseback riding examples - the follow through. The actual doing is the satisfying part, not just talking about it! That friend saying that dreaming about London is as good as going - whhhat? How is that satisfying?

Anyway, sorry that my only "advice" is really just relating back to you through my own experiences - but I still think we are both ISFPs  No pressure though, haha.


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## VagrantFarce (Jul 31, 2015)

Both are about apprehending the "objective" world, i.e. what is separate from what we understand to be own, subjective point of view.


Se apprehends this world as an immediate, literalized "surface" - things are what they are, it's happening right now, you experience it in great detail, and it's inviting a response. You value things for their surface impression, for their colours, tastes, feelings, and what immediate impact they might leave in their wake.


Ne apprehends a kind of whirlwind of associations that exists between things - you become aware of this large, ever-expanding "web" that everything is a part of, and you become adept at walking it. You value things, typically, for how they might introduce new branches of this web into the current situation.

It's important that we don't confuse these with their introverted cousins, which illustrate our subjective point-of-view. Ne, especially, is easy to confuse with these - it's often described in non-literal terms, yet is also "objective".


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## Natarajasana (Jun 26, 2015)

P.S. I read somewhere that pink used to be considered a very masculine color... its association with femininity is more recent.


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## SheWolf (Apr 17, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> Se and Ne can both be impulsive, it's just Se is the most impulsive. Se is physical-concrete. Ne is imagination-abstract. Se and Ne both like feeling excitement. Se- excited by physical/concrete ideas/impulses, or physical possibilities. Ne- excited about their abstract explosion of ideas. Ne users like pondering these many ideas out loud with others. Ne is non-linear so they sound random to non-ne users/low ne-users. But Se wants to do physical things RIGHT NOW without imaging them first. Ne wants to imagine all of the abstract possibilities first and then try them all out.
> 
> So are you an abstract or concrete thinker?


Probably concrete. I don't discuss ideas with people.... at all. Lol. I love physical excitement  Idea-excitement? What is that even? Lol.

I'm not sure I understand what people mean by "impulsive" when it comes to Se. I mean... I can be impulsive in some ways, trust me, but not in the way that I'm gonna go dive off a cliff or something just... because? Lol.


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## SheWolf (Apr 17, 2015)

Natarajasana said:


> I could have written most of this post, haha. And especially the part of not understanding how having an idea without following through can be enough. For example, my husband starts looking at travel trailers and test driving them: I get excited, and map out all our future vacations in my head, all the places we'll go, the things we'll do!! Yes!! Then he says, "I'm just dreaming, we aren't actually getting one...." He says that imagining it and entertaining the possibility makes him okay with the fact that we can't actually ever get one. (And he's only got tertiary Ne!!) I, however am crushed. Completely heartbroken. Why would we even talk about something if we aren't going to do it?


Haha! Yes! It seems when I have the idea for something, I have implications of actually DOING it. I remember my mom a long time ago, when I was little, talking to my dad about how nice it would be to move out of state to somewhere prettier and less.... bleh. I got really excited only for them to tell me they were literally just talking about it. I about cried, lol. Both Ne and Se crave novelty, but I think Se even more so.



Natarajasana said:


> And your knitting and horseback riding examples - the follow through. The actual doing is the satisfying part, not just talking about it! That friend saying that dreaming about London is as good as going - whhhat? How is that satisfying?


Oh yeah, definitely. To me if there is something I want to do it's almost crushing when I discover that, for whatever reason, I can't do it. If I had a quarter for the amount of times I cried as a child because I saw other kids doing what I couldn't, I would be more wealthy. I have always wanted to be in "the thick of things." I wanted to be where all the action was at and be part of it in some way.


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## SheWolf (Apr 17, 2015)

floatingpoint said:


> I'm no expert at this stuff, but from what I've observed there's a huge bias towards sensors in the Myers-Briggs community. People make it sound like sensors are all concrete and like they're incapable of abstraction, which is total bullshit.


Oh definitely. No one wants to be a Sensor! Sensors are stupid! Very, very irritating. The two types just learn things and see the world in a different way. Nothing to do with intelligence. I've met a _really_ stupid INTP and my sister, ISFJ, is one of the smartest people I've ever met.



floatingpoint said:


> Now the question is do you apply your feelings and values more to the physical world, to create something beautiful that reflects the way you feel inside? Remember that ISFP is an artisan type, a maker. (so for instance if you loved interior design, gardening, baking, making art, dancing, etc).


Yes, I do love making things pretty! I make jewelry, knit, write, makeup/hair design, fashion, etc. As soon as my surgery is complete and I've healed, I want to take up dancing.
I think that art can even be created in the way that you live. I definitely have a strong desire to outwardly express who I am and how I feel inside. I don't want to just create art, I want to BE art.



floatingpoint said:


> Or do you apply your feelings and values more to the world of ideas, getting really interested in theoretical stuff like the humanities or global affairs or the understanding how culture shapes our relationships, etc? (a love of history/literature/philosophy, the propensity to have long, random conversations, wasting loads of time just thinking -- less about hobbies and more strictly cognitive). Remember that INFPs are idealists, which suggests that they focus not just on possibilities, but on things that don't exist tangibly, a focus on ideas over the real world.


I have zero interest in humanities/global affairs. Culture and stuff is kind of interesting, but I certainly don't dedicate time to studying it. Same with philosophy. I view it as more "for fun" than a way of life. And it tends to kinda bore me pretty quickly I guess. Now, I spend an awful lot of time just thinking, but I think that is more of a product of introversion. I don't really think about things like what you just listed above here.



floatingpoint said:


> Another way to think about this is what types do you find yourself gravitating to, romantically? Usually sensors tend to like sensors and intuitives like intuitives. Just a generalization, of course. But personally as an NF, SJs and sometimes SPs tend to get a little frustrated by my need to talk about ideas all day long.


I'm... not sure. I know I'm attracted to people of like interests. People who are into my "geeky" things like video games, movies, etc. When I talk with my friends it's about those things or our experiences/people in our lives. 
I have an INFP friend. He really loves to talk about the philosophy he's researched, veganism, etc. He has interest in the same things that I do, but he'd much rather talk about what he learned in the book he just read on Buddhism. I am Pagan and study that, but I don't talk about it unless people ask or something.

Tell me, what ideas do you speak of? I'd love to see exactly what "NF" abstract ideas are in action.


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## Felipe (Feb 25, 2016)

Natarajasana said:


> P.S. I read somewhere that pink used to be considered a very masculine color... its association with femininity is more recent.


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## Felipe (Feb 25, 2016)

I'm gonna guess ISFP but it's so hard to be sure because of so much Te


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## SheWolf (Apr 17, 2015)

Felipe said:


> I'm gonna guess ISFP but it's so hard to be sure because of so much Te


Te?


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## Felipe (Feb 25, 2016)

Vespera said:


> Te?


yeah those leaps in thought, like when you said: 

"I'm awfully dreamy. It could be my Enneagram 4w3, I don't know... but I spend an awful lot of time in my own fantasy world. I can be somewhat idealistic, perhaps? But, then again, I know the realities of life too.
I heard the explanation that Ne sees objects "indirectly" and Se sees objects "directly."
I can't wrap my head around the seeing objects "indirectly" part.... I mean, how do you see an object indirectly? Perhaps that would be a good indicator of Se in me?"

I did this, then I did that, then I read about that and it said this thing and I agree with this thing and I disagree with this other thing, etc.


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## Highway Nights (Nov 26, 2014)

xSFP would be my guess. The disinterest you show in ideas like philosophy, humanities, or global affairs makes it sound like you don't use either high N function, or Ti. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, despite what you might see on this site.

I'm curious though, what would you say about ISTJ? Is there anything about Si that you particular relate to, or don't relate to?


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## The Dude (May 20, 2010)

Vespera said:


> Okay, so, I really need help distinguishing Se vs Ne. Mostly so I can help determine if I'm an INFP or ISFP. I KNOW I'm a Fi-dom, so debating that is out of the question.
> 
> Personally, just from what I do understand, I think I'm ISFP. I know what I want for my future and I have a habit of viewing where my future is headed in a "one-way-street" sort of way which would point at tertiary Ni. I don't see "several possibilities" for my future like I think Ne would. I also don't spend a _whole_ lot of time reflecting on my future, to be honest. It's more generalities though I have known exactly what I wanted to do with my life since I was a little girl (veterinarian.)
> 
> ...


This probably isn't going to make a lot of sense, but do you...
Evaluate the experience and then experience the experience (Se) or Evaluate the experience and then conceive from the experience (Ne)...

For example when you read a book, or you watch a movie or TV show do you prefer take the info in as it is and enjoy the moment or do you start to zone out and "spiderweb" the info? I use prefer because Ni is the tertiary function for ISFPs, so as they develop abstraction becomes stronger, but it will never be as rapid or expansive as an INFP. As for INFPs their tertiary Si will never be as "raw" or physical as ISFPs Se. 

As for pink being given to boys and blue to girls...that's true. 
"For example, a June 1918 article from the trade publication Earnshaw's Infants' Department said, “The generally accepted rule is pink for the boys, and blue for the girls. The reason is that pink, being a more decided and stronger color, is more suitable for the boy, while blue, which is more delicate and dainty, is prettier for the girl.”
Read more: History, Travel, Arts, Science, People, Places | Smithsonian


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

> Probably concrete. I don't discuss ideas with people.... at all. Lol. I love physical excitement  Idea-excitement? What is that even? Lol.
> 
> I'm not sure I understand what people mean by "impulsive" when it comes to Se. I mean... I can be impulsive in some ways, trust me, but not in the way that I'm gonna go dive off a cliff or something just... because? Lol.


You are sounding ISFP to me. Like do you find yourself doing things on the whim- do things first without thinking about the consequences, like to discover as you go, want adventures?



> People who are into my "geeky" things like video games, movies, etc. When I talk with my friends it's about those things or our experiences/people in our lives.
> I have an INFP friend. He really loves to talk about the philosophy he's researched, veganism, etc. He has interest in the same things that I do, but he'd much rather talk about what he learned in the book he just read on Buddhism. I am Pagan and study that, but I don't talk about it unless people ask or something.


Sounds like you are into real tangible things- sensing- physical excitement, whereas your N friend likes to share his abstract topics/theories-idea excitement.


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## SheWolf (Apr 17, 2015)

Rebelgoatalliance said:


> xSFP would be my guess. The disinterest you show in ideas like philosophy, humanities, or global affairs makes it sound like you don't use either high N function, or Ti. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, despite what you might see on this site.
> 
> I'm curious though, what would you say about ISTJ? Is there anything about Si that you particular relate to, or don't relate to?



Yeah. Zero interest in politics for politics sake either.

if you're hinting at me being an ISTJ, I assure you I'm not. I've been down that road once. Unless I have been in a Si-Fi loop all my life, which is highly unlikely, I'm not ISTJ. My decisions are purely emotion-based. Yes, I know that IxTJ's are among the most sensitive of thinkers, it's a bit too extreme for me. I'm emotional all the time and greatly see things through a "feeling filter" if you will. As I stated, I don't question my Fi dominance. 
As far as what I can relate to with Si, I don't know? Perhaps it's bodily awareness and somewhat liking stability. I do have Enneagram 6 as my last Trifix, however, so that could be it. I've heard ISFP's actually can seem like thinking types. People can get pretty caught up in their inferior function to the point that they may seem like that function is actually at the front of their stack.


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## SheWolf (Apr 17, 2015)

Coconut Meat said:


> This probably isn't going to make a lot of sense, but do you...
> Evaluate the experience and then experience the experience (Se) or Evaluate the experience and then conceive from the experience (Ne)...
> 
> For example when you read a book, or you watch a movie or TV show do you prefer take the info in as it is and enjoy the moment or do you start to zone out and "spiderweb" the info? I use prefer because Ni is the tertiary function for ISFPs, so as they develop abstraction becomes stronger, but it will never be as rapid or expansive as an INFP. As for INFPs their tertiary Si will never be as "raw" or physical as ISFPs Se.
> ...


uhm... I don't know. I don't think I "spiderweb" info. I pay attention to movies fairly well.


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