# What Do You Think Of The Concept Of An "Honest Living"?



## WintersFlame (Nov 18, 2016)

A simple question for simple people. I think I chose the right place. 
No, no I didn't. 

What do you think about the whole idea around living honestly and the existence of this concept. Do you think its a complete fallacy?


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## PiT (May 6, 2017)

When left completely unfettered, people are capable of perpetrating tremendous wrong in service of our own goals. Ethics (and the enforcement of ethics through the law) is what separates us from beasts and makes civil society possible. As such, I find the concept of "honest living" to be important; looking at societies that stray from (e.g. recent-ish developments in the United States) or originally do not adhere (e.g. the Soviet Union) to the proper ethical standards, I can tell that the effects of not acting as such are quite negative.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

There is no such thing, we are hardwired to take advantage of each other.
One mans honesty, is another mans lie and a thirds betrayal.


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## Squirt (Jun 2, 2017)

WintersFlame said:


> A simple question for simple people. I think I chose the right place.
> No, no I didn't.
> 
> What do you think about the whole idea around living honestly and the existence of this concept. Do you think its a complete fallacy?


When I think of the concept of living honestly, I think of Thoreau's "Walden". It operates on the principle that people can competently decide for themselves what their lives should be by observing the consequences of their own actions (where society tends to shield us from such consequences, sometimes to absurd extremes). It doesn't suppose a perfect state, but a constant struggle to gain perspective of where you are.

There seems to be conflation between the pursuit of living honestly and advancing moral purity, which is not the same thing to me - and so there is no fallacy possible on the basis of moral justification, which I assume you are referring to when you say fallacy?


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## martinkunev (Mar 23, 2017)

Nobody is completely honest. Some people try to be, some even think they are, but being honest is subjective and not clearly defined. Human beings have contradictory views and even if they don't, they make mistakes which sometimes they don't even see.

I don't really agree with what some people think is honest living. If honest means obeying all the rules, then you could be honest and contribute to a problem.
Being honest may mean giving up your goals because you cannot achieve them honestly. Honesty may stop you from doing something good (e.g. helping others). Being honest may mean you value yourself (your principle of honesty) more than your friends and family.

It is said that the real character of a person shows when they know that nobody will find out about their actions. I think every person will be tempted to do something they don't approve of in such situation.


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## Handsome Dyke (Oct 4, 2012)

I'm only familiar with that phrase in the context of work (having a job vs. being a criminal, mainly).



Red Magician said:


> There is no such thing, we are hardwired to take advantage of each other.


That's not true; how did you come up with this idea? Humans are group animals, and living in a group requires cooperation.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

Nymphetic Neurosis said:


> That's not true; how did you come up with this idea? Humans are group animals, and living in a group requires cooperation.


It is complicated.

Socionics - the16types.info - The Clock of the Socion: Energy Dynamics of Quadra and Benefit Rings

http://personalitycafe.com/socionics-forum/740810-quadral-complexes-stratiyevskaya.html 

Read these.
Think about them, then keep your thoughts for yourself.
Any need to nag me about the topic, will result in me silencing you for a time of my choosing.


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## zekzar (Jul 9, 2017)

I wouldn't say it's a fallacy. I'd just say impractical. Everyone slips whether they mean to or not. Now, the concept, sure. It's an alright idea. Some people have different views of what honest living actually is. I believe it's just integrity. Practice what you preach and preach what you practice. But, to get deeper, just being honest in _everything_ you say and do is just impractical. Honesty is relative - That's why we have the term "honest opinion." Ironically, if I'm being honest, sometimes I think lying is better than telling a full truth. But lie wisely. Don't lie like a retard.


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## ponpiri (Apr 30, 2017)

No, it's not a fallacy [What do you even mean by that?] as it depends on how you define living and honest.

I accept that others don't see honest in the way that I do, though.


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## Handsome Dyke (Oct 4, 2012)

Red Magician said:


> .
> Any need to nag me about the topic, will result in me silencing you for a time of my choosing.


Please do it; I've already had to do it to you at least once. You are too immature.


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## Elistra (Apr 6, 2013)

They're quite right about the value judgments of inferior Introverted Feeling being "barbaric and absolute" in expression...


* *




When I think of an honest living, I think of reciprocity -- not taking advantage of others. Employees who put in a fair day's work, and employers who pay a fair day's wages. Pulling your weight in this world. Not expecting a free ride from others. Repaying your debts. Combine that with generally being a truthful person, and to me, THAT is an honest lifestyle. 

Frankly, I have no absolutely respect for people who don't live honestly, as defined by the above. 

In a good world, people who are lying, lazy, two-faced, self-entitled piles of shit who only care about themselves would be summarily executed. In a perfect one, they would have never been born at all.

Years ago, I used to tolerate personal dealings with people like that. These days, the minute I see that they're not in line with an honest lifestyle, I drop them like a hot rock and have nothing whatsoever to do with them to the greatest degree possible. 

I'm an administrator, not a trash collector.


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## Sir Kanra (Jun 27, 2017)

My view in a nutshell


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## Kaioken (Mar 4, 2017)

Ethics are a product of society and thus are relative. That's basically the whole point.
What someone considers an honest living could be considered the opposite by one other.

And it's not like our conditioning is making us selfless individuals, some people try to appear as selfless, as they have strong values but a lot of them are simply virtue-signaling, other are just following the ethics of the community (which is not a bad thing as long as you don't blindly follow but can take some distance with it), while other live with values who can easily be contradicted.

Values and ethics are subjective, I could even say temporary. There is no "real" right or wrong. Rape was once tolerated (it still is in some places)


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## starscream430 (Jan 14, 2014)

WintersFlame said:


> A simple question for simple people. I think I chose the right place.
> No, no I didn't.
> 
> What do you think about the whole idea around living honestly and the existence of this concept. Do you think its a complete fallacy?


I think it's an idealistic, but foolhardy goal. Unless one becomes a true hermit, you'll have to contend with other personalities. With those other personalities, you will have to lie from time to time in order to maintain the relationships.


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