# How does each type abuse the Enneagram personality model/system?



## Kintsugi (May 17, 2011)

Sooo...

I started thinking about Enneagram related stuff after hanging out in the http://personalitycafe.com/enneagra...hy-people-have-trouble-typing-themselves.html thread, and after a conversation with @_nburns_ , during which he made a comment about 7s, and how they to learn things quickly, get bored...and then blame the system (or "other") for the problem, and not themselves (I'm totally guilty of this ).

I have no idea if a thread like this exists (probably does) but I didn't know exactly what to search for and also I was feeling lazy...

So, out of interest; do YOU think there are any patterns related to this kinda thing? Enneagram is a very vague system and, as many people have pointed out, because of this, it is easily abused/misinterpreted.

What are some of the common mistakes that each type makes when trying to figure this stuff out (or perhaps you completely disagree altogether)?


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## enneathusiast (Dec 15, 2012)

I'm not exactly clear on what you're asking. So I'll take it as how each type _might _have issues with the Enneagram system.

Just for fun, here are some starters (these are just coming off the top of my head so they may or may not be accurate). Others should feel free to change or add to them.

1. That's not right, this is how that works
2. It's too negative, non-supportive
3. How does this get me anywhere
4. I'm not like anyone else
5. It seems arbitrary, what logic is it based on
6. I'm confused, can someone please explain it
7. I can't limit myself to just one type
8. That's just BS
9. I relate to every type


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## Kintsugi (May 17, 2011)

enneathusiast said:


> I'm not exactly clear on what you're asking. So I'll take it as how each type _might _have issues with the Enneagram system.
> 
> Just for fun, here are some starters (these are just coming off the top of my head so they may or may not be accurate). Others should feel free to change or add to them.
> 
> ...


I like them (as a starting point) ^_^


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## Mr inappropriate (Dec 17, 2013)

I say the 7 thing, but i think it is really right. Like wtf staying in some stupid defence mechanism(or call it attidute whatever) for all of your life ? Gives me creeps.:dry:
Also agree with 2 and 9.
I also believe its situational and has close to %0 genetic pattern. Changes constantly as you live and learn. Thats why wings and lines of d/i is made up, together they mostly compose all types anyway.

Edit: I wont argue about the correctness of my view, so feel free to ignore if you feel hurt when you see enneagram being critized.


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## Ace Face (Nov 13, 2011)

Why do people abuse the enneagram? I don't think enneagram type has anything to do with how or why it's abused. I think the people most likely to abuse it are:

1. People who have no real sense of self. They're just lost souls looking for answers, and since they don't know themselves at all, they change their type about 1000 different times and obsess over it.

2. People who get lost in their thoughts. More specifically, people who let their thoughts control them as opposed to being in control of their thoughts. 

3. People who somehow think they know others better than others know themselves and cross boundaries insisting somebody else is X type. Bitch, please, lol. 

4. People who overthink why they are the way they are when the bottom line is that you can change who you are if you don't like what you see when you look in the mirror. Many people don't want to change though; they would rather find a convenient excuse as to why they shouldn't change... and the enneagram can certainly be used as that type of crutch. 

5. People who have too much time on their hands. Get out and go do shit... find a job, go out with friends, go for a hike, exercise, meditate, do yoga, pick up a book, try/learn something new, etc. There are wayyy too many people sitting on their asses, mentally jerking off to enneagram literature. 

...This started off normal, and then turned into a rant, lol. Carry on.


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## Figure (Jun 22, 2011)

I know at least for me, there are two real ways in which the theory limits my perspective. 

The first is in making the mistake of wanting the enneagram to provide mental stimulation over and over, and also wanting immediate payout from it. I love the feeling I get when the theory leads me to an understanding of myself that I couldn't have reached without it - however, I also tend to think that simply digging deeper and deeper into the theory will make this happen more frequently. It's too much of a good thing, frankly. Once I come to an understanding the enneagram, I have to be careful not to go nuts over how profound the discovery is. Rome wasn't built in a minute, and unwinding your self-identifications and ego structures won't be either. The enneagram is a gradual spiritual journey, not a quick fix, and I often have to remind myself to slow down with the conclusions I jump to with the self analysis. It's not a tool for fixing myself, it's a tool for _accepting_ myself 

The second is in wanting the enneagram to explain everything instead of taking action on concrete goals. This is where the "enneagram is hippie nonsense" argument comes in. Now, unlike some people here, I DO believe the theory can be used to explain the vast majority of personal and interpersonal experiences. Whether it is the BEST way of explaining them is another matter entirely. There are many situations in life where understanding yourself helps, but ultimately you have to execute something with that understanding in mind. Just knowing your habits and why they are there won't do this on its own - you have to take action on your pragmatic life activities alongside understanding. A good example of this is me and my job search - my enneatype makes me "good at" a lot of things including what I do now, but ultimately the things I'm _passionate _about and enjoy don't have much basis in the enneagram and you still have to find that through a lot of trial and error and discipline in other areas of your life. Being spiritually advanced will not single handedly start your successful business (that's my goal!) or whatever your material/other goals are, nor should it take the place of that work (unless you truly want it to). You need life experience - professional, academic, etc to make the enneagram worth it. 

Those are mine. I would say, at least on forum for example with the 9's, there is this felt belief that the theory confirms how worthless and absent they are when really it is teaching them to get OUT of that state. For 8's, there is a lot of confrontation that isn't necessary for the topic and a lot of "ooo look at how powerful I am, I take no shit, but I'm still so vulnerable." For the 7's, there is a lot of emphasis on how the traits of TV characters, movie stars, anime characters, and other classifications match type descriptions instead of digging into the ego structures of the types (focusing on trivial aspects of the theory). For the 6's, there is a lot of forced fighting and struggle in pumping oneself up to be beyond stereotype/stereotype to be wrong, because of the perception that the forum negates the worth the type. For the 5's, there is a lot of obscure overcomplication of the theory and what its theorists say. For 4's, there is a lot of diva-esque arguing between people who get over-offended. For 3's, there isn't much talk at all (which is itself an area for improvement since the theory offers a lot to 3's). For 2's and 1's, same idea, not enough dialogue. Obviously not everyone fits these, but they are patterns I have noticed.


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## nburns (Dec 4, 2015)

These comments are pretty perceptive.



Figure said:


> For the 6's, there is a lot of forced fighting and struggle in pumping oneself up to be beyond stereotype/stereotype to be wrong, because of the perception that the forum negates the worth the type.


Lol. I think type 6 gets excessively shit on in these forums. Saying that 6s are "cowards" is kind of horrible. I see them as more indecisive and inconsistent than cowardly. Anyone can be a coward. But I think the bad-mouthing might feed into an inferiority complex that 6s naturally have, and so they internalize the 6-phobia and become their own enemy.



> For the 5's, there is a lot of obscure overcomplication of the theory and what its theorists say.


Lol. A lot of people seem to do this, but 5s may be driving it. I think it starts with the theorists themselves, some of whom -- perhaps not incidentally -- happen to be 5s. The root cause of overcomplication is the inability to tell a good idea from a bad one. 5s may just love ideas too much. Throwing any away is like killing their children.



> For 3's, there isn't much talk at all (which is itself an area for improvement since the theory offers a lot to 3's).


Since 3s are obsessed with success, they may just have better things to do. There's not much success to be had here.


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## nburns (Dec 4, 2015)

Ace Face said:


> Why do people abuse the enneagram? I don't think enneagram type has anything to do with how or why it's abused. I think the people most likely to abuse it are:
> 
> 1. People who have no real sense of self. They're just lost souls looking for answers, and since they don't know themselves at all, they change their type about 1000 different times and obsess over it.
> 
> ...


I think some people love the feeling of importance that comes from having their personality picked apart, so they drag out choosing a type for as long as possible. They want people to see how complex and special they are and they love being the center of attention. Trying to help these people settle on a type is fruitless. They don't want to have a type. They want to prove that they don't have a type. That they are a one-of-a-kind diamond, a mystery of nature. They will waste your time.

There are also people that miss the point of the Enneagram. They think that different types confer different super-powers. They want to be a 5 to obtain the brilliance that comes with 5, or they want to be a 4 to obtain the artistic genius that comes with 4. Obviously, it doesn't work that way.

And then, there are people that want to prove that the Enneagram doesn't work. If you feel threatened by it, then you obviously are missing the point.


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## Ace Face (Nov 13, 2011)

nburns said:


> And then, there are people that want to prove that the Enneagram doesn't work. If you feel threatened by it, then you obviously are missing the point.


I don't see why anyone would feel threatened by it. Someone may see no good use for it, but who cares? One person might get something out of it and another might not. Neither person is more enlightened than the other. It's that simple.


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## nburns (Dec 4, 2015)

enneathusiast said:


> I'm not exactly clear on what you're asking. So I'll take it as how each type _might _have issues with the Enneagram system.
> 
> Just for fun, here are some starters (these are just coming off the top of my head so they may or may not be accurate). Others should feel free to change or add to them.
> 
> ...


2. Let's talk about me some more. Why don't you think I'm type X again?
6. I'm not a 6. Why do you think I'm a 6? The Enneagram is just speculation, anyway.
7. I understand it, but *yawn* I'm not impressed.
9. I don't like 9, therefore I'm not a 9. But I'm not any of those other types, either.


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## nburns (Dec 4, 2015)

Ace Face said:


> I don't see why anyone would feel threatened by it. Someone may see no good use for it, but who cares? One person might get something out of it and another might not. Neither person is more enlightened than the other. It's that simple.


True. Being threatened by the Enneagram is like being threatened by algebra. "Algebra is just putting labels on numbers. It's too limiting. Numbers should be free."


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## Figure (Jun 22, 2011)

nburns said:


> Lol. I think type 6 gets excessively shit on in these forums. Saying that 6s are "cowards" is kind of horrible. I see them as more indecisive and inconsistent than cowardly. Anyone can be a coward. But I think the bad-mouthing might feed into an inferiority complex that 6s naturally have, and so they internalize the 6-phobia and become their own enemy.


Well, everybody _says _that, but how many people have truly gone back in recent discussions to find support that that's still the case? I don't spend a lot of time on the individual type forums other than my own, but honestly can't say I've seen a lot of 6 bashing on here recently aside from idiot noobs who haven't done the work to know what they're saying. It certainly was the case a couple years ago, but I think it's toned down more recently. I'd also agree that a lot of the writings (Riso Hudson) establish the erroneous stereotype to new people. 

What you said, however, about 6's brings me to an opinion I've been restraining for some time now, and is somewhat controversial. I've restrained because I never thought it truly added value to a discussion, but since we are discussing misuse of the theory it works here. And that is that I believe a significant amount of the flack that 6's receive on here is caused and/or perpetuated and/or aggrandized BY 6's - either those who believe they are another type and are mistyped, or by other 6's who identify excessively with being victimized. Either way, I think 6's self-identify with being the weaker link or underdog are more likely to cause a ruckus in being seen as cowardly, whereas those here who are well-balanced and done inner work basically know that isn't true of them because of their experiences. The real deal 6's here just sort of roll their eyes at it and go about their business. But there is a faction who make the anti-6 stereotype worse in over-identifying with trying to fight it, or garner pity for it.

In my mind, the justice for 6's lies in being mindful of 6's who have no attachment to all the ruckus - not having a pity party for those who can't see past what Riso Hudson or others here think.


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## enneathusiast (Dec 15, 2012)

nburns said:


> And then, there are people that want to prove that the Enneagram doesn't work. If you feel threatened by it, then you obviously are missing the point.


What is the point as you see it?


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## nburns (Dec 4, 2015)

Figure said:


> Well, everybody _says _that, but how many people have truly gone back in recent discussions to find support that that's still the case? I don't spend a lot of time on the individual type forums other than my own, but honestly can't say I've seen a lot of 6 bashing on here recently aside from idiot noobs who haven't done the work to know what they're saying. It certainly was the case a couple years ago, but I think it's toned down more recently. *I'd also agree that a lot of the writings (Riso Hudson) establish the erroneous stereotype to new people.*


Yeah. I think R&H may have succeeded in making the types easily-digestible at the cost of making them into flimsy stereotypes. Not all of the stereotypes are appealing, despite R&H's obvious efforts to be even-handed.



> What you said, however, about 6's brings me to an opinion I've been restraining for some time now, and is somewhat controversial. I've restrained because I never thought it truly added value to a discussion, but since we are discussing misuse of the theory it works here. And that is that I believe a significant amount of the flack that 6's receive on here is caused and/or perpetuated and/or aggrandized BY 6's - either those who believe they are another type and are mistyped, or by other 6's who identify excessively with being victimized. Either way, I think 6's self-identify with being the weaker link or underdog are more likely to cause a ruckus in being seen as cowardly, whereas those here who are well-balanced and done inner work basically know that isn't true of them because of their experiences. The real deal 6's here just sort of roll their eyes at it and go about their business. But there is a faction who make the anti-6 stereotype worse in over-identifying with trying to fight it, or garner pity for it.


That's what I meant about them having an inferiority complex.



> In my mind, the justice for 6's lies in being mindful of 6's who have no attachment to all the ruckus - not having a pity party for those who can't see past what Riso Hudson or others here think.


Yeah. There needs to be an annual Hug-a-6 Day. Let's make it January 25th!


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## nburns (Dec 4, 2015)

enneathusiast said:


> What is the point as you see it?


What do you think the point is?


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## enneathusiast (Dec 15, 2012)

nburns said:


> What do you think the point is?


I don't find the point to the Enneagram types is obvious as you say because each person has their interpretation. I was asking you what you see the point as because you said it's obvious. 

I just wanted to know what point it is you see as so obvious.


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## nburns (Dec 4, 2015)

enneathusiast said:


> I don't find the point to the Enneagram types is obvious as you say because each person has their interpretation. I was asking you what you see the point as because you said it's obvious.
> 
> I just wanted to know what point it is you see as so obvious.


I didn't say anything about what the point *is*. I don't want to go there. I said the point is *not* to be anything that's threatening. It's like algebra or Newton's law of gravity. Nothing controversial.


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## enneathusiast (Dec 15, 2012)

nburns said:


> I didn't say anything about what the point *is*. I don't want to go there. I said the point is *not* to be anything that's threatening. It's like algebra or Newton's law of gravity. Nothing controversial.


OK. Well, it sounds like you're taking it as just a way to label things.

I raised the question because I sense that some people may feel minimized by what you said if they're unclear about what you meant. Here's what I mean by that.

The original use of the Enneagram types by Ichazo was to basically tear down the ego or false sense of self and reveal what might be called the true self. Tearing down the self-concept can feel very threatening to someone's stability because in the beginning it may not feel like a concept but may actually feel like who they are. I think the reason this thing was never meant to be popularized was so that a student could learn it from a teacher who could guide them through that difficult process. Today, people use this thing on their own in a number of ways. Some just use it as a theory and it doesn't really have much of a personal impact. Others try to use it for psychological and spiritual growth and without a guide or a practice to follow it can be quite disruptive to the psyche.

So I can see how it would seem silly to be threatened by a theory, but it may well be justified to feel threatened by tearing down the self-concept. I'm not bringing this up to argue any point. I just want to recognize the misgivings anyone might have when using the Enneagram for psychological and spiritual growth.


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

Figure said:


> I It's not a tool for fixing myself, it's a tool for _accepting_ myself
> 
> The second is in wanting the enneagram to explain everything instead of taking action on concrete goals. This is where the "enneagram is hippie nonsense" argument comes in.


As is usually the case, I find great simplicity and truth in your writings, which is highest praise from my 8 ness..... (smiles....)

There are parts of me I have always been trying to jam down - my aggressiveness, my assertiveness. With understanding enneagram, I can rechannel that energy into channeling ME into more product efforts. It is ok for me to be assertive, but I need to do a better job of choosing when and how.

The other way enneagram is VERY useful to me is it gives me a very rudimentary map of where I might look. If I am an 8, can I see myself retreating to 5 when things get crappy? Well, now that I look at it, sure, I guess I do, and that is a good thing.

Likewise, when I looked at growing towards 2, I thought "horsepucky" at first, but with time, I can now see that in me, and I can use that focus to be more focused in looking in the direction of 2. 

Likewise, the concept of vulnerable.....


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## nburns (Dec 4, 2015)

enneathusiast said:


> OK. Well, it sounds like you're taking it as just a way to label things.
> 
> I raised the question because I sense that some people may feel minimized by what you said if they're unclear about what you meant. Here's what I mean by that.
> 
> ...


Okay. So, I think it's fair to say that, within your concept of "The Enneagram," there lurks two parts, one descriptive and one prescriptive: One part describes what people _are like_, and one part prescribes what people _should do_. Ichazo may have coupled them together, but, fortunately, Ichazo can't control what people do with the Enneagram now that it's escaped into the wild, so we're free to uncouple them and take what we want.

The prescriptive part sounds uncomfortably like a false god. The descriptive part, OTOH, has quite a lot of merit. I'll take the descriptive "just labeling" part and leave the rest.


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