# Is it possible for an ISFP to not seem like a feeler?



## Elk (Nov 20, 2012)

TheGirlWithTheCurls said:


> Yeah I know it's petty meanness and I do feel really awful about that, but I don't think it's as bad as I'm making it out to be, it's only really with two of my friends who are twins, and I think I do it because they have hurt me a lot in the past, and unknowingly. They're both INTJs, and a lot of the time they seem almost robotic, like they just don't understand emotions and it annoys the hell out of me, especially because they don't even know they're saying anything wrong. I know this doesn't justify me acting like a total bitch to them at times, but I'm just saying I'm not that terrible with everyone.


What kinds of things do your intj friends do?


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

@TheGirlWithTheCurls and @Elk

I will agree that anyone who seems very cold to me who I care about can drive me to acts of pretty nasty psychological or emotional revenge; it's like I know that they think they're so strong and I'm so emo or something, and the thing is with IxTJs though is if you find their particular buttons you can pretty much devastate them.

I've learned to do this to someone in a way that almost makes me feel ashamed because I love him. Almost, because of his own acts of hypercritical petty meanness and coldness toward me that drove me to it. I can't stand that, someone knowing all your weak points and callously disregarding them, then having the nerve to act all appalled when you finally become The Empire Strikes Back. 

But they have, like, baby Fi so they are like we are on a daily basis ...times 5000...when you finally touch that weak spot they have, that precious so precious hidden little fire of Fi that IxTJs hide behind Te brick walls.

It can make you feel guilty, like you're being a really nasty harsh person; but I think the fact that you're so conscious of all of it is more indicative of an Fi dom/aux than an Fi tertiary.


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## TheGirlWithTheCurls (Feb 2, 2012)

Elk said:


> What kinds of things do your intj friends do?


Ok well I know this will sound like I'm being super oversensitive (which I probably am), but just for instance, if I'm having a bad day and someone has been a dick to me or something, and I might go to one of them just to rant about it for a little bit and then move on, but what they'll do is they try and kind of justify what the other person did to me. Like they'll start saying how they understand where that person is coming from and they might have a point and that they might have just been having a bad day. And even though these things might be true, I would still be very mad at the person so I don't want to hear any of that, I just want them to understand why* I'm* upset about it, or at lease pretend to. 
I think this might just be me being self centered though. :/


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## TheGirlWithTheCurls (Feb 2, 2012)

Elk said:


> This guy I'm involved with is an intj and he is also SUPER robotic too. it's not like he insults me on purpose or anything like that, but he does always seem to bring up weird stuff at the wrong times which can be very offensive to me lol. Like if we're having what I would consider an emotional moment he'll start talking about my life and what I plan to do to further myself...I guess it's some sort of way of showing emotion for him but he does it in such a way that makes it feel like he's changing the subject of what we're talking about or whats happening and completely ruins the moment. I can't imagine hanging out with 2 intjs's at the same time. No
> wonder you cant control what you say. I wouldn't blame you for acting like a terrible bitch with them :laughing:


Oh that sounds so frustrating! Have you talked to him about it?
And actually, try hanging out with 4 of them, every day. Two guys and two girls, though the guys aren't as 'robotic' as the girls seem to be.


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## TheGirlWithTheCurls (Feb 2, 2012)

fourtines said:


> @_TheGirlWithTheCurls_ and @_Elk_
> 
> I will agree that anyone who seems very cold to me who I care about can drive me to acts of pretty nasty psychological or emotional revenge; it's like I know that they think they're so strong and I'm so emo or something, and the thing is with IxTJs though is if you find their particular buttons you can pretty much devastate them.
> 
> ...


Did you know, that you are actually a lot of help missy. Especially that last sentence - that makes a lot of sense.


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## Elk (Nov 20, 2012)

@fourtines

HAHAHAHAHAHA OMG thats so legit!!! I haven't honed my skills quite like that though, i don't really want to hurt the guy but i certainly know talking about making monkeys dress up in armor and joust in the back yard isn't something he's a fan of. Teach me your ways master!


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## Elk (Nov 20, 2012)

@TheGirlWithTheCurls

I've tried talking to him about it, but it always ends up turning into a conversation about something else lol.

It's funny what you're saying about your intj's trying to make you see the other person point of view because that's exactly what I do to my intj! He does do similar things if I'm having a problem he'll try and get me to look at different ways to solve it when all I'm really doing is telling him how I'm feeling so he can make me feel better not so he can tell me how to fix it lol. Oh well....


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

TheGirlWithTheCurls said:


> Did you know, that you are actually a lot of help missy. Especially that last sentence - that makes a lot of sense.


Yay. :kitteh:

Well I think IxTJs are more likely to be like "I don't care I don't care" but then DO something to show how much it really did bother them, like they're more likely to be the embodiment of "the lady (or gentleman) doth protest too much." Like I've seen an INTJ say "I have zero F and 100% T" and know an ISTJ pretty well who constantly doth protest too much, to the point I almost feel sorry for him. 

I'm so cool, I'm so strong...yikes. I've even gotten into it with what is probably an xNTJ female where she kept kind of "picking" at me in a chat room, we bickered back and forth, and one day I just pointed out some real flaws she has and she hated me for, like, months (they hate that, you can call them a shithead and tell them they're wrong and stupid all day long, say they're mean and self-absorbed assholes...but dude, bring out the big guns and describe to them in intricate detail their alcoholism, narcissism, emotional ineptitude, etc. and watch them flip the fuck out)...it was so weird, too, because she did all the "tough" TJ posturing and had no issue at all picking at me constantly, but when I gave it back to her, her Fi reaction was so unconscious that couldn't deal with it and held a grudge for so long it was kind of absurd.

Same with ISTJ. He's utterly flipped out on me at random points when he's usually so cool and collected and acts like very little bothers him. 

I think that's a pretty easy way to tell the difference. ISFP may cry every week, but when ISTJ cries it's like some clusterfuck of emo meltdown like "OMGZ I HATE U, U IZ MEANEST PERSON IN ENTIRE WORLD, U NOT LOVE ME, U REALLY THINK THIS ABOUT ME ALL THE TIME." 

Yeah, it can make you feel guilty, but their Fi has to mature sometime, especially when you're dealing with TJs over 25 or 30, it's like give me a break, son, if I have to learn to be logical, you need to grow up a little emotionally.


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## Elk (Nov 20, 2012)

@fourtines

You're awesome, you've definitely had much more experience than I've had with the whole mbti thing and knowing which personality types you're dealing with. I'm going to keep this in mind and maybe start finding a few things to observe about this intj that i can use against him if I absolutely have to. Although I would feel like the biggest shitbag on the planet doing it to this guy and probably would never actually follow through with it haha. Thank you for your wisdom and input. Quite helpful indeed missy.


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## TheGirlWithTheCurls (Feb 2, 2012)

Elk said:


> @_TheGirlWithTheCurls_
> 
> I've tried talking to him about it, but it always ends up turning into a conversation about something else lol.
> 
> It's funny what you're saying about your intj's trying to make you see the other person point of view because that's exactly what I do to my intj! He does do similar things if I'm having a problem he'll try and get me to look at different ways to solve it when all I'm really doing is telling him how I'm feeling so he can make me feel better not so he can tell me how to fix it lol. Oh well....


Does it bother you enough to actually want to not be friends with him? Or is kind of one of those things that annoy you about their personality but you can look passed it?
And yes exactly! It's like noo, I'm not asking you to tell me how to fix the problem, just comfort me please lol. And I think that confuses them because they don't see the point in doing that if it's not going to fix anything...


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Elk said:


> @_fourtines_
> 
> HAHAHAHAHAHA OMG thats so legit!!! I haven't honed my skills quite like that though, i don't really want to hurt the guy but i certainly know talking about making monkeys dress up in armor and joust in the back yard isn't something he's a fan of. Teach me your ways master!


Well I think the difference between us and them is that we don't want to hurt them, and hopefully your INTJ is healthy and mature and he isn't too brutal with you and apologizes when he really hurts you, and you can just can kind of let things go and let things go.

I let things go and let things go to a point where this person I think got too comfortable with being shitty to me, and because I was so accepting of him and probed him to be using his own Fi in my presence, that over time I collected a great deal of information (this is our secret power, I think, the ability to watch, listen and collect information whilst being open and accepting) and so when he went too far, I already knew exactly what would push his buttons, and had known it for quite some time.

Don't get me wrong, the first time he got really upset with me I was surprised. I was like "wow, really?" and he was pretty good at convincing me that nothing I could do could ever get to him, but after a couple of years you start to learn about a person.

Problem is you actually don't want to violate that trust with an IxTJ unless they've REALLY hurt you or crossed the line with you, because you could lose them forever because of it. Maybe. 

I don't suggest going around and flippantly trying to push IxTJ buttons unless they're really emotionally abusive.


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## Elk (Nov 20, 2012)

@fourtines

haha yeah I don't really try to push peoples buttons until they REALLY start pushing mine. He doesn't really do anything intentionally hurtful. so far he seems to just make oblivious mistakes, but so do I. He's actually quite helpful to have around, but sometimes he's a little too helpful. That seems like kind of a stupid complaint doesn't it lol.

Anyways, I could see him becoming more intentionally hurtful from the way he speaks about others so I figure it might be good to know what I can do to at least dish it back and balance things out you know? I don't like when someone just decides it's a good day to freak out on me for no apparent reason.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Elk said:


> @_TheGirlWithTheCurls_
> 
> I've tried talking to him about it, but it always ends up turning into a conversation about something else lol.
> 
> It's funny what you're saying about your intj's trying to make you see the other person point of view because that's exactly what I do to my intj! He does do similar things if I'm having a problem he'll try and get me to look at different ways to solve it when all I'm really doing is telling him how I'm feeling so he can make me feel better not so he can tell me how to fix it lol. Oh well....


Well, interesting, experienced this also with ISTJ....like "quit your bitching, this is the other person's point of view" blah blah blah.

Um, okay, thanks? No thanks. 

I actually thought this had a lot to do with him being an E9, so I am interested to learn this seems to be some kind of IxTJ trait.


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## Elk (Nov 20, 2012)

@fourtines

What E9?


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Elk said:


> @_fourtines_
> 
> but sometimes he's a little too helpful. That seems like kind of a stupid complaint doesn't it lol.


You mean "too helpful" like he seems angry on your behalf and therefore trying to push you to take action when you're just overwhelmed and need time to be upset? Like he wants to fix the thing, so can almost seem bossy when you aren't in the right frame of mind to immediately take practical action?

I actually ask for guidance like this from TJ types, especially TJ males, but yes it seems "too helpful" when it's 11:30 at night and you have no idea how you're going to move into a new house, and ISTJ seems suddenly very angry and argumentative that you aren't IMMEDIATELY DOING SOMETHING TO GET AWAY FROM THE HORRIBLE PEOPLE WHO PUT YOU IN THIS SITUATION.

It's like, um, okay, can you just come and save me then if you're so concerned? Thanks. 



> Anyways, *I could see him becoming more intentionally hurtful from the way he speaks about others* so I figure it might be good to know what I can do to at least dish it back and balance things out you know? I don't like when someone just decides it's a good day to freak out on me for no apparent reason.


The bolded. Exactly. 

I remember being once really happy that he felt so comfortable and close to me that he would complain about his BFF to me...later I realized, hey, wait a second, does he just hate everyone? Does he hate me too?


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Elk said:


> @_fourtines_
> 
> What E9?


Enneagram 9. They can be a mediator of sorts, and sometimes they can be passive-aggressively self-righteous about it.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

Interesting chat here.
I can relate to a lot of it.
Being mean spirited in Te mode is a very familiar subject.
But knowing MBTI and being type 9 I kinda don't let myself hurt others in that mood as often as before.
I really don't want conflict.
@fourtines you sure has a lot of ideas how to leverage Fi use and I can see how that is working for you.
I've gone down the path of defence more than attack, I realize it now that I see the descriptions of Fi use.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

hornet said:


> Interesting chat here.
> I can relate to a lot of it.
> Being mean spirited in Te mode is a very familiar subject.
> But knowing MBTI and being type 9 I kinda don't let myself hurt others in that mood as often as before.
> ...


I want to be perfectly clear though that this is not something that I think is the most desirable state of things. I would rather it not be this way or have to be this way.

It makes me think of when dogs chase my little Sally cat because they think they can bully her, and she turns around and scratches their face so hard that they skitter away whimpering and never mess with Sally cat again. It's a defense mechanism, nothing more.

It's a useful weapon to have, like carrying a gun, but you don't want to realistically pull out a gun very often, it's not something you should want to use or wave around unnecessarily.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

fourtines said:


> I want to be perfectly clear though that this is not something that I think is the most desirable state of things. I would rather it not be this way or have to be this way.
> 
> It makes me think of when dogs chase my little Sally cat because they think they can bully her, and she turns around and scratches their face so hard that they skitter away whimpering and never mess with Sally cat again. It's a defense mechanism, nothing more.
> 
> It's a useful weapon to have, like carrying a gun, but you don't want to realistically pull out a gun very often, it's not something you should want to use or wave around unnecessarily.


Yes and I totally agree.
I'm just guessing at the difference in tactics stemming from having type 6 vs type 9.
When I disintegrate to 6 the claws come put more frequently.
When I'm in 9 mode I'm like, "Oh shit conflict, how to abort?"
If I integrate to 3 I'm more like "How can I use this to further my plans?"
In my experience type 6 have a way of weaponizing everything they come over just in case the shit hits the fan.
Not that they would prefer to use it, as they wish to integrate to 9ish peace deep down.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

hornet said:


> Yes and I totally agree.
> I'm just guessing at the difference in tactics stemming from having type 6 vs type 9.
> When I disintegrate to 6 the claws come put more frequently.
> When I'm in 9 mode I'm like, "Oh shit conflict, how to abort?"
> ...


I'm a counterphobic 6 so I can be very reactive, and it's something I've been consciously working on with yoga, meditation, so forth. 

I was really defensive with this person at first, then he got me to let down my guard, and I was very open and accepting with him, and it was like any time he opened up to me and I responded in kind, he would pull back way too harshly.

I mean unhealthy 9s disintegrate at 6, which is what I think he was doing. It was like he kept peeking out at me from this big heavy black iron curtain, and once and a while he almost seemed like he was going to come out of it completely, and so I would be very open with him so he would feel safe doing so.

Finally he just erected a huge wall, and furthermore, eventually started pulling rocks from his own wall and actively throwing them at me instead of just hiding behind it.

At which point I had to start pulling out my guns, I was devastated because I had opened up so much to him, and he had to me as well up until a certain point, then completely shut down.

I want to integrate at 9 and be peaceful and whole, and I even tried this with him, and next thing I know I was calling him a narcissist and telling him I hated how his picture looked.

I'm not even sure how these things come about, but I can assure you it has a great deal to do with me reacting to his behavior toward me rather than me initiating or being aggressive first. 

I guess as a 6, I disintegrate at 3, so become very competitive and show off a lot and display my own narcissistic traits, which puts other people on the defense and ARRRGH.

I honestly wish it wasn't this way, though, really. Really.


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## Cristy0505 (Oct 8, 2012)

My sister who is ESFJ is alike you on the aspect of being judgmental of people mostly down to morality stuffs which makes me find her a hypocrite. I take the posture “live and worry about your own life and let others decide for themselves what to do with their lives” so I couldn’t care less I don’t get bothered at all.

I do think before speaking but in the end I find the most polite way to tell what I really think, it’s important to me to tell what I really think without being hypocrite I don’t like to lie or say things just because they might sound more acceptable neither. 
Alike yourself I have no fear of confrontation neither I avoid troubles I can because it takes alot of energy but once I have decided I’m right other is wrong or unfair I don’t step back neither.

I also do not relate much with ISTP description neither do I relate with “doer” thing since I’m lazy and I’d rather give or sell an idea away instead of applying it with my own hands. Another thing I could never buy from ISTP description is the fact they don’t have patience for theories without tangible results.

I’m not sentimental at all or sensitive and that’s not because I’m denying my feelings is just I lack ‘em.

To me you could sound like ISTJ or ISFJ but you see I’m not expert on MBTI thing since I couldn’t even figure out what I am.

One thing I know is whatever you are you are not the same I am however alike in some aspects.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

fourtines said:


> I'm a counterphobic 6 so I can be very reactive, and it's something I've been consciously working on with yoga, meditation, so forth.
> 
> I was really defensive with this person at first, then he got me to let down my guard, and I was very open and accepting with him, and it was like any time he opened up to me and I responded in kind, he would pull back way too harshly.
> 
> ...


The weapon focus is prominent yes.
Throwing rocks from the wall, drawing out guns.

6 to 3 in my mind means that the 6 starts acting out their plans.
In other words they start implementing a lot of what if scenarios. Conflict happens and they go.
"I need a plan. I've spent a lot of time planning out global thermonuclear war. Lets implement that."

Your reacting to his behaviour seem like being triggered to act the only way you know how, worst case scenarios.

While the 9 nines have spent lots of time in peace and have plans like playing guitar.
So when conflict arises and they go to three they think. 
"How can I make guitar play part of the solution?"

So a peaceful 6 going to nine would have a focus on "How can we eliminate the conflict with as little fighting as possible?"
I think the more type 6 do what if's about peaceful conflict resolution the more they will integrate.
That is my two cents anyway...


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## TheGirlWithTheCurls (Feb 2, 2012)

Cristy0505 said:


> My sister who is ESFJ is alike you on the aspect of being judgmental of people mostly down to morality stuffs which makes me find her a hypocrite. I take the posture “live and worry about your own life and let others decide for themselves what to do with their lives” so I couldn’t care less I don’t get bothered at all.
> 
> I do think before speaking but in the end I find the most polite way to tell what I really think, it’s important to me to tell what I really think without being hypocrite I don’t like to lie or say things just because they might sound more acceptable neither.
> Alike yourself I have no fear of confrontation neither I avoid troubles I can because it takes alot of energy but once I have decided I’m right other is wrong or unfair I don’t step back neither.
> ...


Yeah I checked the ISTJ description already, and I think I might have explained on the first page why I'm pretty sure I'm not an ISTJ. But who knows, I apparently don't know myself very well so you might be right.
Do you know at all what type you are? As in do you know for sure of any of the functions you use?


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

hornet said:


> The weapon focus is prominent yes.
> Throwing rocks from the wall, drawing out guns.
> 
> 6 to 3 in my mind means that the 6 starts acting out their plans.
> ...


What kind of 9 starts conflicts by playing push-pull games though? Almost like a milder version of I Hate You, Don't Leave Me. 

Is that the disintegration of 9 at 6? The inner conflict? The fear? The ambivalent relationship with freedom and security? All exaggerated into a very negative form?


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

fourtines said:


> What kind of 9 starts conflicts by playing push-pull games though? Almost like a milder version of I Hate You, Don't Leave Me.


Hmm push-pull games...
He was ISTJ right?
That sounds like going warm 3 and wanting to progress and then collapsing into apathy and passiveness in 9 cold,
and maybe even reaching for the rocks if disintegrating to 6. I've certainly observed similar behaviour in myself.
Having immature Fi probably don't help much. Like Fi is only as good as it's maturity.
You need to do a lot of mistakes before it starts making reasonable decisions on it's own.
Fi-doms have the advantage that we walk into all the Fi minefields as children.
Tert and Inf Fi have the disadvantage that they haven’t yet made some of the more obvious bummers.
The most mature STJ I know in the fi level is my 90ish year old grandmother.
She has seen a lot of stuff and can use Fi on a reasonable level, almost like an aux user.
However her crushingly experienced Si/Te combo leaves no doubt that this is an ISTJ.



> Is that the disintegration of 9 at 6? The inner conflict? The fear? The ambivalent relationship with freedom and security? All exaggerated into a very negative form?


Yes you could say that disintegration in way is the grasping onto a negative frame of the disintegration type.
I do believe that it is the original types frame that make the tools from the disintegration frame so negative.
You come from a frame where the new frame can only lead to self-sabotage.

Because when a 3 integrates to 6 it is a positive thing making the three question it's actions before launching into
a plan where the goal justifies the means. If you are going to conquer the world a little bit of "what if" can be healthy.
But it isn't healthy to go "what if", if you are already standing still and are apathetic.
Just as it isn't very healthy to look for major long term goals when all you can see are problems, danger and potential conflict.
Then you first need peace, stillness and conflict resolution,
but the person standing still need some bigger purpose to drive them out of inertness.
So it's kinda circular on the 3, 6, 9 part. 
Just as the 1, 7, 5, 8, 2, 4 tour is circular in a more convoluted way.
In a way it is easier to figure out the 3, 6, 9 types than to unravel the others, since there is more overlap.
Anyway I'm so very into the enneagram today and always sigsaging into that. XD


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## stone100674 (Jun 22, 2012)

fourtines said:


> Well, interesting, experienced this also with ISTJ....like "quit your bitching, this is the other person's point of view" blah blah blah.
> 
> Um, okay, thanks? No thanks.
> 
> I actually thought this had a lot to do with him being an E9, so I am interested to learn this seems to be some kind of IxTJ trait.


Yes many ISTJs do this: myself included. Seeing the others point of view is important, because it gives you all the information and therefore a true view of the entire situation and in doing so the only true insight into the heart of the matter.


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## stone100674 (Jun 22, 2012)

TheGirlWithTheCurls said:


> I did look up the ISTJ profile a while back, but there were a few things on there that made me think that that's definitely not my type. One is that I am one of the most disorganized people I know, and I also don't have an issue with going against rules, and I hate structure.


 Order, structure and rules are a relative thing. It means that if you learn something you tend to stick with it if it works for you. If something doesn't work for us then there is no value in persisting with it.


> I also don't like it at all when people are obsessed with going along with something that is 'tradition'.


 Once again tradition is a relative thing: it does not mean that all ISTJs are right wing conservatives. If a person is raised without tradition per se then they have nothing to adhere to but also means that if they are raised with left wing liberal traditions or ideals they are likely to adhere to those.


> I'm awful with constructive criticism and get hurt very easily by it, and I usually can't put my feelings into words, unless it's something I've had time to think about.


 This could be attributed to youth.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

hornet said:


> Hmm push-pull games...
> He was ISTJ right?
> That sounds like going warm 3 and wanting to progress and then collapsing into apathy and passiveness in 9 cold,
> and maybe even reaching for the rocks if disintegrating to 6. I've certainly observed similar behaviour in myself.


Yes actually reaching out to me then verbally pushing me away, reaching out to me, pushing me away verbally, rinse, repeat. 

And this after having a history of spending an almost abnormal, intense amount of time talking to one another every day.

He got far too much into my head space, it's hard to just forget about him, even moving on with life and seeing other people.

It's also hard to take someone too seriously when they cuss you out and call you crazy, then actively make it a point to respond to you again. 

We both do that, though. The difference being is that I usually only do it out of reactivity to being hurt, and he seems to want to preemptively make certain no one gets too close to him.


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## TheGirlWithTheCurls (Feb 2, 2012)

stone100674 said:


> Order, structure and rules are a relative thing. It means that if you learn something you tend to stick with it if it works for you. If something doesn't work for us then there is no value in persisting with it. Once again tradition is a relative thing: it does not mean that all ISTJs are right wing conservatives. If a person is raised without tradition per se then they have nothing to adhere to but also means that if they are raised with left wing liberal traditions or ideals they are likely to adhere to those. This could be attributed to youth.


Look I just really don't believe I'm an Judger..the only thing that I would think would make me one is the fact that I'm judgmental about certain things, but other than that everything about being a Judger just isn't me, I relate to practically everything else when it comes to perceiving.


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## stone100674 (Jun 22, 2012)

TheGirlWithTheCurls said:


> Look I just really don't believe I'm an Judger..the only thing that I would think would make me one is the fact that I'm judgmental about certain things, but other than that everything about being a Judger just isn't me, I relate to practically everything else when it comes to perceiving.


I was not making a statement as to whether you were anything or not: I was only attempting to provide a better, more modern concept of certain things like tradition and structure.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

fourtines said:


> Yes actually reaching out to me then verbally pushing me away, reaching out to me, pushing me away verbally, rinse, repeat.


Hmm wouldn't pin this one on type.
Sounds more like manipulation to me.
ISTJs can be fairly manipulative.



> And this after having a history of spending an almost abnormal, intense amount of time talking to one another every day.


No matter the time spent with an ISTJ they will still have a "static" view of the world.
So although you are "transformed" by the conversation they stay pretty much the same.



> He got far too much into my head space, it's hard to just forget about him, even moving on with life and seeing other people.


Sorry to hear that. My grandmother was pretty good at causing guilt on purpose until I caught her red-handed doing it to my
cousin and actually saying that "I need to guilt him a bit so he still will think of me" (SIC)
Since you don't have the same world view of perceiving it is easy to be gullied by the Te/Fi into thinking 
they are on about the same stuff as us. They are not and perceive the world very differently.
They will often pull strings just because they can regardless how anyone around them feels about it.



> It's also hard to take someone too seriously when they cuss you out and call you crazy, then actively make it a point to respond to you again.


Yes the conflict of perception can cause a lot of conflicts between Se/Ni and Si/Ne. 
Making them feel you are crazy for doing Ni. Ni is like poison to them.



> We both do that, though. The difference being is that I usually only do it out of reactivity to being hurt, and he seems to want to preemptively make certain no one gets too close to him.


Yes I know what you mean by having others initiate and having to react to them.
A major milestone for me was realizing that I don't have to react to everything going on.
I'm fully allowed to choose a response instead. This takes more energy and preparation, but are totally worth it.

What I'm trying to say is that I fully appreciate the difficulty of having an ISTJ up close and personal from dealing
with my grandmother. However it sounds like there may be issues beyond type in your case. Not everything can
be pinned down by MBTI and Enneagram.


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## TheGirlWithTheCurls (Feb 2, 2012)

stone100674 said:


> I was not making a statement as to whether you were anything or not: I was only attempting to provide a better, more modern concept of certain things like tradition and structure.


Ok I see, thank you


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

TheGirlWithTheCurls said:


> I basically hate everything mushy or romantic - I can't stand any of it, especially when it comes to guys. I can also say really hurtful things to people that are close to me, rather than people who aren't. I don't know why, I feel like I'm mad at them even though I know they haven't done anything wrong.
> Also I can be really judgmental. For example, when my friend goes out drinking or whatever then I just get so mad at her, for doing things a normal teenage girl should be doing.
> I always plan things out in my head before saying them, I am not spontaneous. I feel like I don't have as much sympathy or empathy for people anymore, it's like a have to force myself to feel for them. Nowadays when I hear someone complain about their life, I just feel like telling them to shut up, because it's kind of like I don't trust them, like they're just being over dramatic, even though they're probably not.
> I'm also not afraid of confrontation, and I definitely don't keep my opinion to myself, unless I'm with people I don't know.
> ...


most F descriptions lead much more Fe. being an F does not mean you are emotional, irrational or people loving. Fi is all about viewing things through what they mean to you (ie, their "vibe"), and how things fit into your personal value system.


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## Elk (Nov 20, 2012)

@fourtines

Sorry it took me awhile to get back on here, but yeah, he doesn't get angry or argumentative, though he can be a little bossy. It would be SO nice if he would just save me lol (save me the hassle of having to deal with some people). He always has a good way of approaching things so I know what you mean about going to your tj's for guidance, he's actually the one person who I'm comfortable with asking for advice. everyone else always seems to give me some pretty generic and/or unhelpful advice.


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

TheGirlWithTheCurls said:


> Look I just really don't believe I'm an Judger..the only thing that I would think would make me one is the fact that I'm judgmental about certain things, but other than that everything about being a Judger just isn't me, I relate to practically everything else when it comes to perceiving.


I'm not gonna keep pushing here, I would just like to state that IJs and EPs are perceiving dominant. IPs and EJs are dominant judgers(?).
IJs and EPs got dominant S or N
IPs and EJs got dominant F or T
The stereotypes around perceiving usually surround introverted thinking.


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

ISFP is an Fi-dominant type. Fi is a Judging function - evaluation through the apparent relation of things to you, personally, subjectively. A lot of what you've said here seems congruous enough with Fi dominance to me. I don't see why it wouldn't be; evaluation isn't one-dimensional and doesn't make people into walking stereotypes, rather there is a range of possible ways in which you can relate to things, and your mind decides between them.

Planning things out in your head before you say them is something everyone can do - _any_ type. It could be well on the order of dominant Judging. What is the reason you find yourself planning?


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## TheGirlWithTheCurls (Feb 2, 2012)

Probably Not said:


> ISFP is an Fi-dominant type. Fi is a Judging function - evaluation through the apparent relation of things to you, personally, subjectively. A lot of what you've said here seems congruous enough with Fi dominance to me. I don't see why it wouldn't be; evaluation isn't one-dimensional and doesn't make people into walking stereotypes, rather there is a range of possible ways in which you can relate to things, and your mind decides between them.
> 
> Planning things out in your head before you say them is something everyone can do - _any_ type. It could be well on the order of dominant Judging. What is the reason you find yourself planning?


I haven't really thought about *why *I plan things in my head before I say them, but I guess it's because I don't want to mess up what I want to say, I don't want to look like an idiot.


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