# Heya :) Another new member. Mind typing me based off this Reddit questionnaire?



## platypal (Jan 21, 2018)

Hey there. Longtime lurker posting for the first time ever... I have been confused about my type for a long time, and have tried to read everything I could get my hands on in order to better understand the Jungian cognitive functions theory, only to be left more confused. For context, I have taken many different tests, and have received a variety of results (in high school, ENTJ; in college, consistently ENFJ; in the last two years post-grad, INFJ/INFP). I think trying to analyze further on my own is just going to add to the confusion, so I would love some outside perspective. 

I came across this questionnaire on Reddit and managed to complete it. Mind reviewing the responses and offering your opinion on my type? Let me know if there's anything else that would be helpful to provide. Also, sorry my responses are so long! Clearly brevity is not a strong suit  Thanks for any help, really appreciate it!

***I should note that I am isolated and under a lot of stress at the moment, and at a mental health low, so whatever type I seem to be, I am likely an unhealthy version. Don’t want the type in general to be judged for my own personal shortcomings. ***

Warning: lots of full-on feels coming your way. I got excited about answering these and then came back and read through all of the other comments* [this was when I was preparing to post on Reddit, but the thread is no longer active]* – now feel like a kid who was super jazzed about their volcano project until all the other kids at the science fair showed up with hoverboards and self-driving mopeds. Please be gentle :'D

*1a) What are two important strengths of yours? *
Are we talking about natural strengths and weaknesses? Or, by 'important', do you mean those we value most? Not sure which would be more helpful with typing, so I'll try giving one of each. Ehk, I already feel gross. Pressing on...

I find it easy to forgive others. Admittedly, I can be easily upset, and prone to holding onto anger/hurt, but only if it seems like the other person in question does not care. Despite efforts to let pain go and forgive someone “anyway” (anyone ever read that poem by Mother Teresa? One of my favorites), I find my mind returning time and time again to unresolved conflicts. I play them over and over in my mind, thinking of different ways I could have responded, trying to find the “right” one, the one that would have led to peace and mutual understanding. Sometimes I even feel strongly compelled to message someone out of the blue in an attempt to reconcile. I have been lucky to never go through a bad breakup, but if I did, I would definitely be a “closure talk” kind of person. Once I have that closure, I can move on easily. If there are any loose ends, though? Any unanswered questions, or lingering resentment? It’ll be sure to weigh on my mind, periodically stirring guilt or anger or both, to infinity and beyond. Basically, I both simultaneously hold grudges and suck at holding grudges. 
However, if someone shows any kind of remorse, I will forgive, and quickly. Most of the time, this is because I am so eager for the conflict to be over, for us to be back in sync. I also want to believe the best in others, I am optimistic about them and our relationship. Furthermore, I am uncomfortable with the idea of owing someone forgiveness in general. This is because I often find it difficult to determine if my hurt feelings are in response to a legitimate wrongdoing, or if they are due to a sensitive nature, perceiving fault where there is none, projecting the hot mess of my inner world onto the other person. I find it easier to blame myself. I guess this is really could be both a strength and a weakness, a two-sided coin.

As for a strength I value, it would have to be courageous compassion (is that a thing? Welp, if not, I’m making it up and let’s go with it whooo). I guess in my head this means the courage to help those who need it most, even if it means going against the grain or making great personal sacrifices. I don’t know how well I live this value out, but I hope to do so in my everyday life.

*1b) What are two important weaknesses of yours? *
Just two? Oh man, hard to pick… I guess I’d have to go with a tendency to be self-righteous/judgmental/critical. I kind of lump these together as one weakness, since they all seem to stem from a similar place. It’s difficult to explain, and this might sound crazy, but I imagine them all coming from this sharp, cold, metallic, chin haughtily pulled up in the air or down to the chest like a bull ready to charge, bright-red-fading into a toxic purple/black kind of place in me. Okay, yep, that definitely sounds crazy. I could probably think through these ideas and come up with way to describe them logically, but that’s what comes to mind first, a strong emotional impulse tied to vague, shifting images. 

So, yeah, that one… And flakiness. I will eventually always keep a promise to someone, but I often break it multiple times before I finally keep it. For instance, I once missed the same meeting with a school counselor five times. When I realized I had forgotten it each time, I felt tremendously guilty and made every effort to make amends. I even gave the counselor my mom’s homemade banana bread with an apology note at one point. That’s how bad it got. Banana bread and handwritten note bad. We eventually did meet, but by then I think I’d already burned the bridge, because he seemed (understandably) annoyed the whole meeting and we never spoke again. Remembering this makes me want to beat myself over the head with a lamp, Dobby-style. That’s why I normally repress these kinds of memories. Repress ‘em hard.
I could think of hundreds of stories like this, where I eventually follow through on something, but only after so many let-downs that damage is already done. So much avoidable strife caused. Dangit brain. Full transparency, I have been diagnosed with ADD, so how much of this is my personality vs. an under-stimulated brain, I’m not sure. But, basically, it goes: avoid --> avoid --> avoid --> avoid some more --> WHOADANG people are getting upset and I’m causing real trouble --> Herculean effort to make amends/follow through (often involving over-the-top apologies and extreme gestures of goodwill if it’s a relationship, or nonstop work all-nighters if it’s a project). I’m the worst. Moving on…

*2a) In general, what do you consider to be fun? *
Long one-on-one talks with trusted companions (family, friends, even a stranger if there is a feeling of connection) about beliefs/hopes/dreams/fears… Storytelling, imagining new worlds and characters, finding creative ways to make sense of my thoughts/feelings and express them. Being in nature and feeling alive and free, totally free – running through fields of wildflowers, laying in the grass and bathing in the sunlight with arms wide open, floating down a river humming a merry tune (yes, I am this cheesy, and yes I am very sorry you have to read this). The Huck Finn kind of existence sounds pretty great sometimes, running around barefoot, getting lost, having adventures... Wouldn’t want to be a wandering vagabond forever, though; I’d start to miss loved ones and the feeling of “home”. I guess more of a Bilbo Baggins style adventure, then- where I could go off to the Misty Mountains and return to my beloved Shire a little wiser, with new scars and stories. What even is this? Who am I kidding, most of the time I live in an elastic waistband watching the same sitcoms over and over again on Netflix. But the idea of all of these things sounds nice.

*2b) What are your specific hobbies or interests? *
Music (songwriting, singing, guitar). Popping in headphones, staring out of a car/plane window, and creating fake music videos in my mind. Writing, all kinds, but my favorite is creative writing. Anything that gets me out in nature – camping, canoeing, fly fishing, white water rafting, rock climbing… Most of the time it’s just hiking and pretending to be a fairy in the woods, though. Reading, mostly fiction and fantasy. Dancing, badly. Movies (my mom is a big movie buff, so this makes me feel closer to her, we really bond over it- watching the Oscars together, calling each other and giving our reviews of movies…) and T.V. (anything character-driven. Currently loving The West Wing. Any C.J. fans out there??) Randomly researching history and politics when the mood hits. Also, volunteering. I don’t do much now, but I always want to get more involved. Wish I didn’t get so easily overwhelmed- think this keeps me from taking on more responsibility like volunteering. There’s a lot of stress in my life now, but there always will be, and giving back helps take the focus off my troubles and puts it to things much more worthy of attention. Also, elastic waistbands and Netflix, mostly.

*2c) Out of those, choose the one you are currently most interested in. Why do you enjoy this hobby or interest?*
Music. As you can see, my brain is a hot mess, and music gets me out of my head and into the present moment, appreciating the beauty of it. Music also provides a great outlet for creative expression. I think I’d go crazy if I couldn’t write the swirling typhoon of thoughts/emotion out of my mind and into a song. It’s the only way I can make sense of my inner world on my own – if I can put it a song or story. The rest of the time it’s just inner storms and confusion.

*3a) What's your ultimate goal in life? *
To love others, to leave a little bit of good in the world.

*3b) Do you think there's a point to life? If so, what is it? *
Yes, to love and be loved (God, human beings, all living things connected in loving harmony).

*4a) How are you planning on fulfill the goal mentioned in #3? *
Learning to see the good in everyone, striving to be more empathetic/trustworthy/giving/the best version of myself so that I can better love others. I would like to go into a healing/service profession, and am studying to become a physician (in the past, I considered social work and teaching). Mostly just trying to live out Gandalf’s words – “it is the small, everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay. Small acts of kindness and love.”

*4b) If not already mentioned, how would academics and career fit into your approach or plan in #3a?*
They are necessary steps in the path to becoming a physician, but ultimately not the focus. I value education, not only because it enriches your life and broadens your perspective, but also because patients rely on their physicians to be experts in the field of medicine. This idea drives me to knuckle down and commit everything I have to my education, so that I can master subjects to the point where patients can trust my expertise. I do not want their health/lives to be a gamble, I cannot let them down.

*4c) If not already mentioned, how would relationships and your social life fit into your approach or plan in #3a? *
They are central to it. I struggled with grades in high school/college, because I was so relationship-focused. I’d drop a textbook like a hot potato if it meant comforting a friend through a breakup, or calling to shoot the breeze with my brother when he was feeling lonely. This can lead to a lot of stress/burnout, trying to do too many things for other people, ignored work piles higher while my tank runs empty, and then BLAMO it all comes falling down like a house of cards. 

*5a) Do you have strong opinions on politics? If so, what are they? & 5b) What's the rationale behind those opinions?*
***Don't mean to stir up conflict by so overtly stating specific political views, which may be controversial to some. Just thought it might be helpful to provide a few examples. I respect that there can be validity in many different perspectives, these are just my own personal views.***
I am fascinated by political theory, but burnt out on the reality at the moment. I used to have strong opinions, but now I find myself just wanting to learn as much as possible and hear others’ perspectives. Oh, who am I kidding, though? I still have opinions when I have no right to ;P

Let me see… Idealistic about what human beings can accomplish together, but can be cynical about human nature (i.e. left to our own devices, we could/would destroy ourselves… when we come together, we discover shared values and hold each other accountable to them – though, I also personally believe in a universal morality that is beyond individual values and cultures). I believe everyone is redeemable, as long as they want to be redeemed. What was the question again hah? Should probably get more specific…

I go by issues, not by party. I believe governments should act as safety nets for citizens by providing services (but investigating which services actually help, so we can invest our funds wisely)… so I probably tend to lean more liberal in my views. At the same time, I greatly appreciate having an opposing conservative view to make sure the government doesn’t get too bloated. No one person, or human entity, should be given that much power. It should be spread amongst us all (checks and balances FTW). I believe in free discourse, and think that civil debate is crucial for democracies to thrive; it helps to prevent mob rule/groupthink and improves ideas as they are challenged from all sides. Love the quote by Evelyn Beatrice Hall: “I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.” At the same time, just because you have the right to say something, doesn’t mean it is right to say it (i.e. just because it’s legal doesn’t make it moral). Some key issues: pro-racial/gender equality efforts, pro-second amendment, anti-abortion (I struggle with this issue, but ultimately prioritize protecting children’s rights because they are so vulnerable, and unable to defend their rights as an adult can; I also want to be a pediatrician, so that’s a bias…) Oh, climate issues, making sure we are good stewards of the one planet we’ve got, so that it can provide for the needs of future generations… There are probably lots of others, but I’m forgetting them/getting too tired to think.


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## Love (May 20, 2012)

platypal said:


> I think trying to analyze further on my own is just going to add to the confusion, so I would love some outside perspective.


Probably not INFJ. Probably not Ti preference.


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## platypal (Jan 21, 2018)

Love said:


> Probably not INFJ. Probably not Ti preference.


Mind expanding? To be fair (not attached to the idea of INFJ or a Ti preference, just want to make sure you have all of the info), I've been trying to analyze on my own for over a year now. So I've tunneled pretty deep, but it has led to 'paralysis by analysis'. My friends and family often tell me that I overthink things. Interested to hear your perspective on how that might relate to Ti/why you probably ruled out Ti.


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## Drecon (Jun 20, 2016)

Your responses seem very consistent with ExTJ types I know. I can see how emotional volatility might be a thing for you, which is something I see a lot with stressed ExTJ's. 
I see someone with strong opinions, a little judgmental (as in: vocal about the things you think are 'bad' or 'wrong') and a strong drive to reach a conclusion on things. 

I'd go with ENTJ over ESTJ because you seem more broadly interested in things and people, rather than wanting to specialize in a particular field? 
Idealism is also more common for ENTJ's (as opposed to ESTJ's, who tend to be more pragmatic). It's not often described as an ENTJ trait, since ENTJ's tend to quickly convert their ideas into action. Idealism is often described as a dreamy indecisiveness, which is definitely not something ENTJ's are associated with. 

After rereading your post a bit: Idealism is very common with AD(H)D diagnosed people, regardless of type. 

There's gender issues too by the way. The stereotypical ENTJ male will be focused on things and tasks, while the female brain is naturally more inclined to people-oriented and group-thinking (I'm struggling to find the right words for this, but I hope you see where I'm going with this). This can lead to some ENTJ women not recognizing themselves in the ENTJ descriptions. 
Ultimately, ENTJ's are about efficiently putting goals into actions. It doesn't matter if those goals are thing-based or people based. Keep that in mind while figuring out your type. 

As to the 'unhealthy' part you're talking about: Stressed ENTJ's are often nervous wrecks that can be totally consumed by conflicting values without any ways to sort those out. 

If you want to figure out if ENTJ is a possible type for you (don't take the things I say here at face value, I don't know you beyond what you typed in your first post) try and look at your thought process. Do you find yourself skipping steps in a process a lot? (for example: skipping 'obvious' steps in a math formula, forgetting about other's feelings for a second when making a decision that might concern them, wanting to move to the next point in a meeting while others are still repeating the same things they were saying before... stuff like that)
Do you have a strong drive to make something of your life? Are you good with scheduling 'alone time' if others might want to see you more? 
All of these can be indicators for the ENTJ personality type. 

And again, ADD can influence these things a lot. I don't know enough about ADD in the ENTJ personality type to tell you exactly what the interactions are, but it can make typing hard sometimes. If you find yourself staring into space for a few minutes and get mad at yourself because you could've been using that time, I can see that as a logical interaction. Maybe the ENTJ ADD brain jumps to conclusions even more and gets in trouble more because of that... I think that's something for you to figure out if ENTJ is actually your type. 

Finally: I see a lot of other possibilities from your post, but none of them seem all that consistent. I've been dead wrong on these kinds of things before so take everything here with a grain of salt. In any case I wish you well in searching for your true type.


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## platypal (Jan 21, 2018)

Drecon said:


> Your responses seem very consistent with ExTJ types I know. I can see how emotional volatility might be a thing for you, which is something I see a lot with stressed ExTJ's.
> I see someone with strong opinions, a little judgmental (as in: vocal about the things you think are 'bad' or 'wrong') and a strong drive to reach a conclusion on things.


Thank you for your honesty. My first reaction reading this was sadness, not because of the potential ExTJ typing (would be happy to be included among them, or any type), but because strong opinions, judgement, and strong drive are what you saw first/most prominently. I so long to be inclusive, to make others feel comfortable, understood, appreciated for who they are as unique individuals. If it is not warmth and kindness, but strong opinions and judgement that people encounter at first brush, I worry how many people I have unintentionally hurt or pushed away with a harsh demeanor. This definitely gives me food for thought.




Drecon said:


> If you want to figure out if ENTJ is a possible type for you (don't take the things I say here at face value, I don't know you beyond what you typed in your first post) try and look at your thought process. Do you find yourself skipping steps in a process a lot? (for example: skipping 'obvious' steps in a math formula, forgetting about other's feelings for a second when making a decision that might concern them, wanting to move to the next point in a meeting while others are still repeating the same things they were saying before... stuff like that)
> Do you have a strong drive to make something of your life? Are you good with scheduling 'alone time' if others might want to see you more?
> All of these can be indicators for the ENTJ personality type.


Not sure if you where posing these as rhetorical questions for me to consider on my own, but here are some initial thoughts, if it helps.
For skipping steps, I do find that I set my sights on an ideal vision of the future, and often my mind is so glued to this vision that I lose sight of the individual steps I'm taking on a journey. I don't know if this leads to me skipping steps for efficiency, though. More that I'm so excited about the future vision that I can rush through the journey or not take the time to appreciate it, to stop and smell the roses. The present moment can become hazy because of this, too, because I always feel like I'm looking off into the distance rather than noticing what's around me. When it comes to people, though, I make a conscious effort to check in with them and make sure they're happy with a decision or plan before we move forward. At work, I often get in trouble for doing too much back-and-forth communication, because I strive for a collaborative/democratic decision making process. Oftentimes it'll seem like I'm asking my teammates for permission on tasks, when my motivation is really more to hear their perspective and/or make sure we are on the same page.

For the strong drive to make something of my life, I guess it would depend on what that means. I don't think so. I'm not motivated by achievement or ambition. I'd be happy with a simple life, as long as it is filled with deep, meaningful connections with others.

As for whether I'd be comfortable scheduling 'alone time' if others might want to see me more, again I don't think so. I have a really hard time saying 'No' to others. I think sometimes this is why I end up flaking so much, because part of me truly does want to support and connect with others, so I'll agree to do something for someone else even though I'm too physically/emotionally tired to follow through in that moment. So I end up tapping out, when it would have been better to negotiate in the first place and find a compromise that would work for us both. I often struggle to take my own needs into account when making decisions in this way.


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## Drecon (Jun 20, 2016)

platypal said:


> Thank you for your honesty. My first reaction reading this was sadness, not because of the potential ExTJ typing (would be happy to be included among them, or any type), but because strong opinions, judgement, and strong drive are what you saw first/most prominently. I so long to be inclusive, to make others feel comfortable, understood, appreciated for who they are as unique individuals. If it is not warmth and kindness, but strong opinions and judgement that people encounter at first brush, I worry how many people I have unintentionally hurt or pushed away with a harsh demeanor. This definitely gives me food for thought.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for the response. This has made me retreat from ENTJ by a mile. I've also reread your piece a bit and I see some of your remarks in a different light here: 

I must confess that I might have been blindsided a bit by your preface to your post where you stated that you were under a lot of stress, which might influence your answers. It might not have influenced them as much as I presupposed. 

I'm going with 'can't say no to people', 'spending more time communicating than doing the actual work' and 'not taking own needs into account' here and say that this feels very Fe. 

My confusion might have been caused by your post containing a lot of value-laden language. There's some issues that seem very much on your mind, which can often mean Fi. I see some strong language in how you express these values, leading me to believe inferior Fi, told through a strong Te. Rereading it I see I'm dead wrong though. My biggest red flag in hindsight is your answer to the academics and career thing. You state explicitly that they're not priorities for you but a means to an end. I should really have caught that one and revised my theory. I'm certain now that ENTJ is a bad fit for you. 

Let's go on a different journey here though: Let's suppose ENFJ is the best fit for you. How would that look? 

An ENFJ will enter a room and instantly be able to feel it out. ENFJ's are proactive socially and will go out of their way to make everyone around them a little bit better, often forgetting themselves in the process. They're idealists that might work in small teams (like a sports coach or a group of friends) or might feel like they need to better society in a way (in your case, studying to be a pediatrician definitely fits). 
ENFJ and INFJ have a lot of similarities here, but the ENFJ will take a more active role in communication where the INFJ needs a lot of time to formulate a plan first. ENFJ's are masters of 'winging it' in social situations and often end up being the lynchpin for their group of friends or colleagues. 

As I'm re-reading more and more of your post I see a lot of things pointing in the direction of ENFJ. If you like I can do a play-by-play on your original post and see how I think all of it fits with the ENFJ typing? It seems like it could be a great fit, but I can't be sure yet based on all this. I've been wrong before


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## platypal (Jan 21, 2018)

Drecon said:


> An ENFJ will enter a room and instantly be able to feel it out. ENFJ's are proactive socially and will go out of their way to make everyone around them a little bit better, often forgetting themselves in the process. They're idealists that might work in small teams (like a sports coach or a group of friends) or might feel like they need to better society in a way (in your case, studying to be a pediatrician definitely fits).
> ENFJ and INFJ have a lot of similarities here, but the ENFJ will take a more active role in communication where the INFJ needs a lot of time to formulate a plan first. ENFJ's are masters of 'winging it' in social situations and often end up being the lynchpin for their group of friends or colleagues.


I definitely relate to a lot of the motivations here. I don't know how successful I am haha, in terms of actually making others feel better, but it's always my goal. The only thing is that I've read a lot about the "ENFJ charisma", and gotta say, don't think I'm that charming. I'm actually pretty insecure and socially anxious, so I can be awkward in social situations if I'm with someone or a group where I don't feel "safe" (and I feel bad for splitting people up into "safe"/"nonsafe", but it's honestly my tendency when I'm feeling vulnerable, as a way to protect myself - I had an issue in the past with trying to be friends with everyone, indiscriminately giving trust/affection, and getting inevitably hurt by a lack of reciprocation or abusive behavior). In situations where I don't feel comfortable, I withdraw, and tend to be seen as quiet and sweet (maybe even boring, though no one has ever said it to me directly, but I can see someone making that judgement - it takes a long time for me to really open up to most people and move past polite formality).



Drecon said:


> As I'm re-reading more and more of your post I see a lot of things pointing in the direction of ENFJ. If you like I can do a play-by-play on your original post and see how I think all of it fits with the ENFJ typing? It seems like it could be a great fit, but I can't be sure yet based on all this. I've been wrong before


Haha sure, go for it! Thanks for doing such an in-depth analysis


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## Drecon (Jun 20, 2016)

Alright, I hope you're ready. Here comes the ENFJ hypothesis analysis. 



platypal said:


> *1a) What are two important strengths of yours? *
> I find it easy to forgive others. Admittedly, I can be easily upset, and prone to holding onto anger/hurt, but only if it seems like the other person in question does not care.


This is actually very typical. Dominant Fe is always striving to have everyone 'get along' as much as possible. Many ENFJs have boundary issues because of this, but that's a learned skill. As long as people have the ability and will to improve, the ENFJ will usually give them another chance (and sometimes another). 



> Despite efforts to let pain go and forgive someone “anyway” (anyone ever read that poem by Mother Teresa? One of my favorites), I find my mind returning time and time again to unresolved conflicts. I play them over and over in my mind, thinking of different ways I could have responded, trying to find the “right” one, the one that would have led to peace and mutual understanding.


This can actually be a function of inferior Ti. Ti and Fe do the social stuff together. Fe provides the social antennae but Ti provides the structure and the rules for how to live your life. Inferior means that you don't have a lot of control over it and conversations can keep looping until you've resolved the issue for yourself. 
You can compare this to the ISTP for instance. They can have very strict rules for themselves (and sometimes others) to guarantee themselves a lot of space to think. ENFJ's can usually learn a lot from xSTP's when it comes to those kinds of things (and vice versa of course)



> Sometimes I even feel strongly compelled to message someone out of the blue in an attempt to reconcile. I have been lucky to never go through a bad breakup, but if I did, I would definitely be a “closure talk” kind of person. Once I have that closure, I can move on easily. If there are any loose ends, though? Any unanswered questions, or lingering resentment? It’ll be sure to weigh on my mind, periodically stirring guilt or anger or both, to infinity and beyond. Basically, I both simultaneously hold grudges and suck at holding grudges.


This is what I mean with the 'hands-on' approach for ENFJ's. ENFJ's are proactive in social situations (not necessarily leaders, but they won't let things linger if they are unclear). ENFJ's can be social 'control freaks', managing everyone's feelings until they're certain nobody can get hurt by other people's actions. Luckily many ENFJs learn to let go a little instead of micromanaging everyone. (I would imagine you're somewhere on this spectrum)



> However, if someone shows any kind of remorse, I will forgive, and quickly. Most of the time, this is because I am so eager for the conflict to be over, for us to be back in sync. I also want to believe the best in others, I am optimistic about them and our relationship. Furthermore, I am uncomfortable with the idea of owing someone forgiveness in general. This is because I often find it difficult to determine if my hurt feelings are in response to a legitimate wrongdoing, or if they are due to a sensitive nature, perceiving fault where there is none, projecting the hot mess of my inner world onto the other person. I find it easier to blame myself. I guess this is really could be both a strength and a weakness, a two-sided coin.


I must apologize for not reading this fully the first time. This is sterotypical Fe. You're unsure of your own feelings and constantly rationalizing them. All the while, other people's feelings are the most important thing, and if your psyche must suffer, so be it. 
That's not really healthy I'd say but a pattern all too common with ENFJs. 



> As for a strength I value, it would have to be courageous compassion (is that a thing? Welp, if not, I’m making it up and let’s go with it whooo). I guess in my head this means the courage to help those who need it most, even if it means going against the grain or making great personal sacrifices. I don’t know how well I live this value out, but I hope to do so in my everyday life.


I'm not going to repeat myself and state all of the things I said above, but the definitely apply here. 

Something I see in your writing is a good attention to specific meanings of words and sentences. You're very careful to say exactly what you mean to say and nothing else. A trait all FJs share. 



> *1b) What are two important weaknesses of yours? *
> Just two? Oh man, hard to pick… I guess I’d have to go with a tendency to be self-righteous/judgmental/critical. I kind of lump these together as one weakness, since they all seem to stem from a similar place. It’s difficult to explain, and this might sound crazy, but I imagine them all coming from this sharp, cold, metallic, chin haughtily pulled up in the air or down to the chest like a bull ready to charge, bright-red-fading into a toxic purple/black kind of place in me. Okay, yep, that definitely sounds crazy. I could probably think through these ideas and come up with way to describe them logically, but that’s what comes to mind first, a strong emotional impulse tied to vague, shifting images.


Apart from the Fe that is apparent here, I see the Ni shining through. Instead of specific facts and numbers you conjure up images to explain what you mean in abstract terms. That's what Ni does, so that would fit nicely with ENFJ. 

Self-doubt and self-deprecation are very common with FJs and I'm sure that is what you mean with being 'an unhealthy version' of whatever type you are. It's a long process of learning to expect the same from yourself as you expect from others. Try and let go of that perfectionism. It's not easy, but you'll be happier for it in the end. 



> So, yeah, that one… And flakiness. I will eventually always keep a promise to someone, but I often break it multiple times before I finally keep it. For instance, I once missed the same meeting with a school counselor five times. When I realized I had forgotten it each time, I felt tremendously guilty and made every effort to make amends. I even gave the counselor my mom’s homemade banana bread with an apology note at one point. That’s how bad it got. Banana bread and handwritten note bad. We eventually did meet, but by then I think I’d already burned the bridge, because he seemed (understandably) annoyed the whole meeting and we never spoke again. Remembering this makes me want to beat myself over the head with a lamp, Dobby-style. That’s why I normally repress these kinds of memories. Repress ‘em hard.
> I could think of hundreds of stories like this, where I eventually follow through on something, but only after so many let-downs that damage is already done. So much avoidable strife caused. Dangit brain. Full transparency, I have been diagnosed with ADD, so how much of this is my personality vs. an under-stimulated brain, I’m not sure. But, basically, it goes: avoid --> avoid --> avoid --> avoid some more --> WHOADANG people are getting upset and I’m causing real trouble --> Herculean effort to make amends/follow through (often involving over-the-top apologies and extreme gestures of goodwill if it’s a relationship, or nonstop work all-nighters if it’s a project). I’m the worst. Moving on…


That's a typical ADD history. I'd know, as I've been diagnosed with ADHD at 28 years. I know the process of making mistakes, blaming yourself and stuff like that. It can get worse with Fe, as you feel it very personally every time you let someone down. 
What are you doing with coaching and/or medication? Both of them helped me a lot with managing my symptoms and more importantly: starting not to blame myself when things happened. It's definitely a thing to try. 



> *2a) In general, what do you consider to be fun? *
> Long one-on-one talks with trusted companions (family, friends, even a stranger if there is a feeling of connection) about beliefs/hopes/dreams/fears…


Fe



> Storytelling, imagining new worlds and characters, finding creative ways to make sense of my thoughts/feelings and express them.


Ni + Fe



> Being in nature and feeling alive and free, totally free – running through fields of wildflowers, laying in the grass and bathing in the sunlight with arms wide open, floating down a river humming a merry tune (yes, I am this cheesy, and yes I am very sorry you have to read this).


Se



> The Huck Finn kind of existence sounds pretty great sometimes, running around barefoot, getting lost, having adventures... Wouldn’t want to be a wandering vagabond forever, though; I’d start to miss loved ones and the feeling of “home”. I guess more of a Bilbo Baggins style adventure, then- where I could go off to the Misty Mountains and return to my beloved Shire a little wiser, with new scars and stories. What even is this? Who am I kidding, most of the time I live in an elastic waistband watching the same sitcoms over and over again on Netflix. But the idea of all of these things sounds nice.


Ni + Se



> *2b) What are your specific hobbies or interests? *
> Music (songwriting, singing, guitar). Popping in headphones, staring out of a car/plane window, and creating fake music videos in my mind. Writing, all kinds, but my favorite is creative writing. Anything that gets me out in nature – camping, canoeing, fly fishing, white water rafting, rock climbing… Most of the time it’s just hiking and pretending to be a fairy in the woods, though. Reading, mostly fiction and fantasy. Dancing, badly. Movies (my mom is a big movie buff, so this makes me feel closer to her, we really bond over it- watching the Oscars together, calling each other and giving our reviews of movies…) and T.V. (anything character-driven. Currently loving The West Wing. Any C.J. fans out there??)


A common theme with all types is that they focus a lot on their teriary with hobbies. I see a lot of Se, which would be consistent for ENFJ. There's a lot I could say about each of this, but I will only say that I see here that you take a lot of satisfaction from physical activities. An ex-collegue of mine is an ENFJ and he became manager in an in-door skydiving centre where he could combine his natural habits of managing people with his passion for physical activities. 
So I'll say this seems like a nice fit. 



> Randomly researching history and politics when the mood hits.


This can be an interesting activity that combines a lot of things from Fe-Ti-Ni and Se all at once. I can get lost on wikipedia or youtube myself sometimes for this reason. 



> Also, volunteering. I don’t do much now, but I always want to get more involved. Wish I didn’t get so easily overwhelmed- think this keeps me from taking on more responsibility like volunteering. There’s a lot of stress in my life now, but there always will be, and giving back helps take the focus off my troubles and puts it to things much more worthy of attention. Also, elastic waistbands and Netflix, mostly.


At first I put this with Fi. In retrospect it fits just as much with Fe as Fe-dominants will often get energy from giving to others more than anything else. As long as you manage not to spread yourself too thin or start to see it as a 'work', activities like this can actually be a good way to recharge. 



> *2c) Out of those, choose the one you are currently most interested in. Why do you enjoy this hobby or interest?*
> Music. As you can see, my brain is a hot mess, and music gets me out of my head and into the present moment, appreciating the beauty of it. Music also provides a great outlet for creative expression. I think I’d go crazy if I couldn’t write the swirling typhoon of thoughts/emotion out of my mind and into a song. It’s the only way I can make sense of my inner world on my own – if I can put it a song or story. The rest of the time it’s just inner storms and confusion.


Music can be a great outlet that combines Se and Ni in a great way. Also, you can express your feelings in a neutral environment without anyone possibly judging you (besides your worst critic of course, being yourself). This not one that is restricted to any type per se, but I think this will be a common one for ENFJs.



> *3a) What's your ultimate goal in life? *
> To love others, to leave a little bit of good in the world.


A bit sappy, but suit yourself 
This can go just as well with Fe as with Fi, although having this as your ultimate goal would hint to it being a very strong unfluence on your personality, usually meaning Dominant or Inferior. 



> *3b) Do you think there's a point to life? If so, what is it? *
> Yes, to love and be loved (God, human beings, all living things connected in loving harmony).


Same story as above. 



> *4a) How are you planning on fulfill the goal mentioned in #3? *
> Learning to see the good in everyone, striving to be more empathetic/trustworthy/giving/the best version of myself so that I can better love others. I would like to go into a healing/service profession, and am studying to become a physician (in the past, I considered social work and teaching). Mostly just trying to live out Gandalf’s words – “it is the small, everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay. Small acts of kindness and love.”


Not sure if this would favor Fe or Fi (it's a muddy area to be sure). Definitely a value function though. What interested me here was that it is a very proactive way of looking at this sort of thing. You want to make the world a better place, which would work well with your profession. This is a reasoning that is very common with EJ types, which would indicate ENTJ and ENFJ as most probable. We've already pretty much ruled out ENTJ at this point (at least, I have) so I think this is a good indicator for ENFJ. 



> *4b) If not already mentioned, how would academics and career fit into your approach or plan in #3a?*
> They are necessary steps in the path to becoming a physician, but ultimately not the focus.


This pretty much rules out Te for me. For Te-doms, there is not much difference between the goal and the means. If the two aren't the same the whole plan would disintegrate. Fe-doms are a lot more flexible, even if they're often good at seeing how their goals will influence others. 



> I value education, not only because it enriches your life and broadens your perspective, but also because patients rely on their physicians to be experts in the field of medicine. This idea drives me to knuckle down and commit everything I have to my education, so that I can master subjects to the point where patients can trust my expertise. I do not want their health/lives to be a gamble, I cannot let them down.


Don't forget to do it for yourself just as much as for others. It will help you once you're working yourself to death as a doctor, My (ISFJ) girlfriend is one and I can promise you, it's absurdly hard work and you have to have a really strong motivation for doing it. She takes a lot of energy from the days that she helped someone be comfortable with the thought that they have done everything to help them and there's nothing more to be done except wait for death. If a patient has peace with that, it's all been worth it. (sure, there's helping people too, but somehow these are often the highlights of her week). 



> *4c) If not already mentioned, how would relationships and your social life fit into your approach or plan in #3a? *
> They are central to it. I struggled with grades in high school/college, because I was so relationship-focused. I’d drop a textbook like a hot potato if it meant comforting a friend through a breakup, or calling to shoot the breeze with my brother when he was feeling lonely. This can lead to a lot of stress/burnout, trying to do too many things for other people, ignored work piles higher while my tank runs empty, and then BLAMO it all comes falling down like a house of cards.


This is a common pitfall due to inferior Ti. Ti keeps boundaries and translates the goal into a step-by-step plan. This can be a problem for ENFJ's as that is the part that is least developed generally. Maybe you could try to do things like that as a group and make the plan together to use your strong points there instead of your weaker points? 
In any case, definitely consistent, although I see the ADD in there as well. 



> *5a) Do you have strong opinions on politics? If so, what are they? & 5b) What's the rationale behind those opinions?*
> ***Don't mean to stir up conflict by so overtly stating specific political views, which may be controversial to some. Just thought it might be helpful to provide a few examples. I respect that there can be validity in many different perspectives, these are just my own personal views.***


The preface is a typical Fe thing, making sure people don't get the wrong idea about what you're forced to say here. The worst possible consequence is people getting hurt and angry by reading possible strong opinions from you right? 



> I am fascinated by political theory, but burnt out on the reality at the moment. I used to have strong opinions, but now I find myself just wanting to learn as much as possible and hear others’ perspectives. Oh, who am I kidding, though? I still have opinions when I have no right to ;P


It means you're already developing your Ti. Ti handles morality as a strict code of laws. Fe weighs all opinions evenly and tries to find a conclusion somewhere in the middle. I think ENFJs go through stages with this. I think there's articles out there on the internet for developmental stages for all types. Might be interesting to find the ENFJ type and see if it fits you. 



> Let me see… Idealistic about what human beings can accomplish together, but can be cynical about human nature (i.e. left to our own devices, we could/would destroy ourselves… when we come together, we discover shared values and hold each other accountable to them – though, I also personally believe in a universal morality that is beyond individual values and cultures). I believe everyone is redeemable, as long as they want to be redeemed. What was the question again hah? Should probably get more specific…


I see some ADD here, but the ENFJ is also an incurable idealist (we INFJs share that with you). Treasure that and see what small things you can do to make the world better. Nobody can do it on their own, but if enough people do it, maybe we can make it all a little better for everyone. 



> I go by issues, not by party. I believe governments should act as safety nets for citizens by providing services (but investigating which services actually help, so we can invest our funds wisely)… so I probably tend to lean more liberal in my views. At the same time, I greatly appreciate having an opposing conservative view to make sure the government doesn’t get too bloated. No one person, or human entity, should be given that much power. It should be spread amongst us all (checks and balances FTW). I believe in free discourse, and think that civil debate is crucial for democracies to thrive; it helps to prevent mob rule/groupthink and improves ideas as they are challenged from all sides. Love the quote by Evelyn Beatrice Hall: “I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.” At the same time, just because you have the right to say something, doesn’t mean it is right to say it (i.e. just because it’s legal doesn’t make it moral). Some key issues: pro-racial/gender equality efforts, pro-second amendment, anti-abortion (I struggle with this issue, but ultimately prioritize protecting children’s rights because they are so vulnerable, and unable to defend their rights as an adult can; I also want to be a pediatrician, so that’s a bias…) Oh, climate issues, making sure we are good stewards of the one planet we’ve got, so that it can provide for the needs of future generations… There are probably lots of others, but I’m forgetting them/getting too tired to think.


What I'm getting here is that you want the world to be as good as it can be for the largest amount of people? Live and let live and stuff like that? That's definitely consistent with ENFJ, although MBTI is more about the process than the conclusion. Every type can reach any conclusion, they just use a different road to get there. 

Conclusion: 
Maybe you noticed my ENTJ typing came with a lot of ifs and buts (as in: this could fit with multiple types... stuff like that). This one seems spot-on to me. I'm interested to read if some things popped out to you as being very true or maybe I missed the mark on some things. 

In any case, I've learned here that I should never formulate a conclusion without going through the text like this. I read things so much better this way and see a lot of things that I miss while skimming. 
I wouldn't say you're an unhealthy ENFJ by the way. You're healthy according to type, you just have some way to go developmentally. It's something that will start hitting you by 30. Starting out with mindfulness or something like that can help if you want to change something about yourself. Learning to focus on your sphere of influence and start slowly expanding that one. Learn to set boundaries and say no to people more. Those are things pretty much every ENFJ goes through. 

Hopefully this feels a bit more like you?


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## Jewl (Feb 28, 2012)

@Drecon, yeah, I'm not seeing any dominant Te. Not at all. I think I see a definite combo of Feeling and Intuition... and I think our OP @platypal is definitely Extroverted. So ENFJ or ENFP. 

I saw all that focus on evaluation, on figuring out stuff's importance, their beauty, whether or not they are good. But there was also a lot of liking the idea of things and a lot of falling in love with ideas, a lot of focus on "could be", directed outwards towards the world and all that it holds (potentials)... which actually made me think of ENFP. There's actually a lot in this questionnaire that is potentials and future focused combined with this evaluation that you noticed, this weighing of things that no matter how I look at it seems subjective and internalized and reflective. I actually missed a lot of objective external way of evaluating stuff - it felt more subjective, TBH. Also less championing of things, less putting it out there... hmm. 

I've scored ENFJ on tests before just because to all of those questions where they're like: "Do you care about peoples' feelings" and "are you good at reading peoples' emotions", it was yes to all of the above. 

Also some of that problem with following through and avoidance... maybe/could be inferior Si-ish. So here we have something to question. 

@platypal, when it comes to those Thinking vs. Feeling questions on MBTI tests, when you were scoring ENTJ, what made you choose the more Thinking-y answers? What was your process there? I know for me, I can choose those options because I think of how much I value logic and rationality and how important they are, and how I think that does filter into my life (you can't make all decisions solely with your "heart"!). I was wondering if that's what drew you to those answers as well, of if you just saw yourself as this analytical person.  

That said, I think if not ENFP, then ENFJ makes sense. ^-^

EDIT: Also "can't say no" might be less Fe and more about developing boundaries and assertiveness... skills that come with time. Heavens knows I've had problems with that too. I think women in general can all relate to that inability to say no and overextending ourselves to some degree, ever and always 
to some extent struggling with feelings of worthlessness and shame.

DOUBLE EDIT: @platypal. So, just some stuff about dominant Fe in case our OP can relate to it. According to Jung, Feeling is a judging function - it helps us sort out what information we perceive. While Thinking sorts stuff out by categorizing/defining stuff, Feeling evaluates things. How important, how good, how beautiful is it? What it means when Feeling is Extroverted is just that it is objective and externally focused. Just like Te looks outside itself for external criteria and proof, Fe is also ever seeking for external standards. What is good and right period. 

The dominant Fe-user can be unconventional and individualistic. What you have with a dominant Fe-user is often someone who often sees what is right, objectively, and champions that thing. I know people joke around that it's those social justice warrior INFPs going against the grain of society, but I actually think you're more likely to see a morally impassioned Fe-dom drawing people with them to take a stand because something is objectively wrong in society, justice is this thing that is unyielding that should be extended to _everyone_. Think Martin Luther King JR and Obama - both good examples of Fe-doms doing their thing.  

Also Rapunzel from Tangled is a good example of a Fe-dom. An ESFJ, mind you, but definitely Fe-dom all the way. A lot of her struggle comes from aligning herself to being a "good daughter" to her mom. There's stereotypical Ne-tropes ("I've got a dream"), but they're mainly superficial and don't truly colour her personality.

Most Fe-doms I know also tend to be charming, amiable and outgoing people. My roommate in college who is currently still my best friend is an ESFJ - she's bright, in nursing school, and is always open to meeting up over some tea or coffee and a scone to just talk about things. She cares deeply about her friends and wouldn't let someone hurt them. There's a lot of, "That guy doesn't deserve you," and, "Girl, you need someone who loves you," a lot of observe and state objectively, hallmark Fe.

ENFPs are much more a bunch of flaky dreamers. Think John Lennon's song "Imagine". Think Ariel from The Little Mermaid. There's a lot of getting swept away by the _idea _of things. Dominant Ne is characterized by chasing after ideas and potentials. Excitement and enthusiasm towards what could be. I notice in my case, I love people. I love wondering about them and their stories. I do a lot of thinking about social problems, but I generally like to solve them mainly by getting caught up in some idea, some potential. 

After meeting some people who were homeless and weighing how significant those interactions were to me and just what was significant about it (Fi), I was swept away by this idea of opening up our house to let strangers with no place in, and how lovely that would be... and what if _everyone _did that? The idea of spare rooms being for people with no home and inviting them in to a warm home-y place, not just a mere shelter, was amazing... and I still haven't given up on that idea. My husband knows he's in for it having married me. Haha. 

It's that sort of thing that characterizes the ENFP personality. Like Ariel, getting caught up in the idea of a different world. 

When I was little, there was a lot of imaginative, "What if that puddle is a portal to another world," and playing like that. A lot of "could be". 

But also that dominant Ne comes with a downside - as soon as all the possibilities have been exhausted, it's on to the next new exciting thing. You end up dropping a lot, and follow through is difficult. Starting things can even be difficult - you enjoy mulling over the idea of it, and then maybe making it happen, all those details are too boring and tedious. Onto the next thing. 

Just thought I'd put that out there in case you find yourself best in one of those general descriptions.


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## Drecon (Jun 20, 2016)

And that's why we have ENFP's. It can be hard for Ni-doms to step back from their hypothesis and consider different perspectives. We can easily change perspectives when triggered, but there's definite risk of tunnel-vision. ENFP's are always there with more options. I think every team should have both available. Thank you @Jewl for bringing options to this.


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## Jewl (Feb 28, 2012)

Drecon said:


> And that's why we have ENFP's. It can be hard for Ni-doms to step back from their hypothesis and consider different perspectives. We can easily change perspectives when triggered, but there's definite risk of tunnel-vision. ENFP's are always there with more options. I think every team should have both available. Thank you @Jewl for bringing options to this.


Together we make a stronger team for sure. ^-^ I'm glad you brought up ENFJ and ruled out ENTJ. ENTJ doesn't seem like a legitimate possibility in this case. We seem to have it narrowed down to two personality types. That's pretty good.


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## catharsiis (Mar 27, 2017)

ENFJ would be my first guess, but I also could see ENFP or maybe even ENTP. 

I sense a lot of Fe in your post, but the way you write gives me Ne vibes. Fe-Ni and Ne-Fi can be hard to tell apart at times, at least to me.
That's also why I could see you being ENTP; Ne-Fe would make a lot of sense. You seem a lot like a feeler, though. I don't see much Ti in your post, but I could be wrong (I'll admit I kind of skimmed through it)


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## platypal (Jan 21, 2018)

Wow, thank you for all of the analysis, y'all are awesome! Appreciate the different perspectives. I'll try going through and answering to as many main ideas/questions you posed individually as I can while trying to avoid clogging the thread. 

Also going to aim to be more concise in my responses. Never easy, but I admire those who can say so much with few words, so I'm always aiming to grow in that way. Also, it must be tiring to read through such long responses hah. Already a long response explaining how I am going to try to be more concise, okay, good start x) Here we go...


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## Jewl (Feb 28, 2012)

platypal said:


> Wow, thank you for all of the analysis, y'all are awesome! Appreciate the different perspectives. I'll try going through and answering to as many main ideas/questions you posed individually as I can while trying to avoid clogging the thread.
> 
> Also going to aim to be more concise in my responses. Never easy, but I admire those who can say so much with few words, so I'm always aiming to grow in that way. Also, it must be tiring to read through such long responses hah. Already a long response explaining how I am going to try to be more concise, okay, good start x) Here we go...


Hey, it's your thread. Clog away. ^-^ And your responses aren't too long.


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## platypal (Jan 21, 2018)

Drecon said:


> This can actually be a function of inferior Ti. Ti and Fe do the social stuff together. Fe provides the social antennae but Ti provides the structure and the rules for how to live your life. Inferior means that you don't have a lot of control over it and conversations can keep looping until you've resolved the issue for yourself.
> You can compare this to the ISTP for instance. They can have very strict rules for themselves (and sometimes others) to guarantee themselves a lot of space to think. *ENFJ's can usually learn a lot from xSTP's when it comes to those kinds of things (and vice versa of course).*


I recently read through another 'type me' thread where most of the respondees agreed that the OP was an ISTP. I found the OP's responses _so_ refreshing in the way you mention here. For so long, I devalued analytical thinking, as I felt cold and harsh when I interpreted social situations through this lens (and for me, everything was a social situation, even classes and work conference calls, so I pretty much threw analytical thinking out the window unless I was alone). I also thought that it was more important to flesh out your personal value system than hone your analytical thinking skills, because in my mind analysis helped with understanding a situation and brainstorming solutions, but not with determining what solution to ultimately choose (i.e. do we choose the utilitarian option, the one which promotes the most well-being for the most number of people? Or do we believe there's a moral imperative? etc.) Even while writing that out, I can see how important they both are (having the full context and as many choices as possible helps you to make the best decision). 

And now that I am growing older, I am learning how helpful objectivity can be in promoting harmony as well. It can create a kind of neutral territory where people find common ground/mutual understanding. And the basis of emotional intelligence is thoughtful understanding of your own emotions as well as others', so, lots of thinking involved there hah. Communicating in an emotionally charged way is so often unproductive in both problem solving and conflict resolution. And yes, also yay learning/reasoning for the sake of learning/reasoning and not just as a tool for harmony. For all the Ti lovers out there, I know, I know 

So yeah, think this is helpful and I hope to embrace logic and analysis more and more, and not let my emotions dominate so much. Balance, right? Also, longest answer here, scouts honor.




Drecon said:


> ENFJ's can be social 'control freaks', managing everyone's feelings until they're certain nobody can get hurt by other people's actions.


Relate to this a lot. I find myself often stressing over how to say or do "just the right thing" so that everyone feels happy and like we're sharing a meaningful connection/experience together. And then my INTP fiance reminds me that I can't control other people's feelings and I should just enjoy doing/saying something for the sake of it. Voice of reason, bless him.




Drecon said:


> Something I see in your writing is a good attention to specific meanings of words and sentences. You're very careful to say exactly what you mean to say and nothing else. A trait all FJs share.


Hm, yeah, this might be why my responses are so long... The combination of not wanting to upset anyone and also not be misunderstood (such an awful feeling for me) leads to lots of qualifying and over-explaining.




Drecon said:


> Self-doubt and self-deprecation are very common with FJs and I'm sure that is what you mean with being 'an unhealthy version' of whatever type you are. *It's a long process of learning to expect the same from yourself as you expect from others. Try and let go of that perfectionism.* It's not easy, but you'll be happier for it in the end.
> 
> ...That's a typical ADD history. I'd know, as I've been diagnosed with ADHD at 28 years. I know the process of making mistakes, blaming yourself and stuff like that. It can get worse with Fe, as you feel it very personally every time you let someone down.
> What are you doing with coaching and/or medication? Both of them helped me a lot with managing my symptoms and more importantly: *starting not to blame myself when things happened*. It's definitely a thing to try.


Oh, hey fellow human with ADD. Amazing that we're managing to get through such long posts without getting distracted by anything shiny x) 

Yep on the coaching/medication, started recently. Now get why INFJs are known to be such good counselors - I recently started CBT and the parts in bold have been a big focus in the sessions. I'm glad coaching/medication has helped you too. I was skeptical at first, but it has made a big difference so far. 




Drecon said:


> A bit sappy, but suit yourself


Oh yeah, the sap is real. My friends say that they often feel like they've been covered in maple syrup after we finish talking. Can't help myself sometimes, the joy/affection just feels like it's bursting out of me, and I get gushy. It's a constant struggle to reign it in and go for 'less is more' heh.




Drecon said:


> Don't forget to do it for yourself just as much as for others. It will help you once you're working yourself to death as a doctor, My (ISFJ) girlfriend is one and I can promise you, it's absurdly hard work and you have to have a really strong motivation for doing it. *She takes a lot of energy from the days that she helped someone be comfortable with the thought that they have done everything to help them and there's nothing more to be done except wait for death.* If a patient has peace with that, it's all been worth it. (sure, there's helping people too, but somehow these are often the highlights of her week).


Huh, this is so interesting, especially the part in bold (glad there are people like her in medicine). I guess I felt guilty for focusing on any kind of personal fulfillment and not on helping others, like it was selfish or something. It's nice to think of it this way, though, as fuel. Put on your oxygen mask, right?




Drecon said:


> The preface is a typical Fe thing, making sure people don't get the wrong idea about what you're forced to say here. The worst possible consequence is people getting hurt and angry by reading possible strong opinions from you right?


The HORROR. Hah, yes, my brothers' favorite nicknames for me are "most PC person on earth" and "commie pinko pansy". Thanks, bros. Feelin' the love.




Drecon said:


> *What I'm getting here is that you want the world to be as good as it can be for the largest amount of people? Live and let live and stuff like that? *That's definitely consistent with ENFJ, although MBTI is more about the process than the conclusion. Every type can reach any conclusion, they just use a different road to get there.


Yep to both in bold. Though I do feel drawn to the underdogs of the world, I always want to bring more and more people "into the fold". I am interested in research in rare, chronic pediatric diseases because of this reason, the hope it can give to people on the fringes of society and medicine.





Drecon said:


> Conclusion:
> Maybe you noticed my ENTJ typing came with a lot of ifs and buts (as in: this could fit with multiple types... stuff like that). This one seems spot-on to me. I'm interested to read if some things popped out to you as being very true or maybe I missed the mark on some things.
> 
> In any case, I've learned here that I should never formulate a conclusion without going through the text like this. I read things so much better this way and see a lot of things that I miss while skimming.
> ...


Yeah, relate to a lot of what is described here. Thanks for this line-by-line analysis, @Drecon! Super helpful. Moving on to posts from @Jewl and @catharsiis next, might take a break first, but will be back soon.


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## platypal (Jan 21, 2018)

Jewl said:


> @platypal, when it comes to those Thinking vs. Feeling questions on MBTI tests, when you were scoring ENTJ, what made you choose the more Thinking-y answers? What was your process there? I know for me, I can choose those options because I think of how much I value logic and rationality and how important they are, and how I think that does filter into my life (you can't make all decisions solely with your "heart"!). I was wondering if that's what drew you to those answers as well, of if you just saw yourself as this analytical person.


Hm, good question... I've thought about this a lot lately, since I've been feeling aimless and confused, and unsure of whether I have any real identity (do I really know who I am? What is the purpose of my life? etc.) I started to wonder whether this inner turmoil might be due to me running away from my natural preferences (more of a think-y approach), trying to be something else because I am uncomfortable with who I really am. But the more I think about why I scored T in high school, the more I think it might have been due to a desire to get along with and be "taken seriously" by my family, friends, and peers. 

My dad was my primary caretaker growing up, a stay at home dad, and he scores as ENTP. I think his Fe comes out in a strong devotion to his loved ones, a "keep the good times rolling" attitude when we spend time together, and encouragement/motivation (he really believes in me and my brothers, and I mean big-hearted, the sky is the limit, you-can-do-anything _believing_). BUT, in conflicts, he can be harshly critical of any emotionality. I have heard the phrases "you're too sensitive" and "you worry too much" more times than I can count. A lot of the "worry too much" came in response to times when I'd ruminate over how to handle a sensitive interpersonal situation, thinking through potential ways of dealing with it and how they would effect everyone involved. 

So I think from a young age I was taught to think that concerning myself with other people's feelings too much, or being too emotionally expressive, was wrong. I don't think that was ever my dad's intention, I just think he has a different way of relating to the world and my style of relating seemed so foreign to him that he sometimes rejected it out-of-hand. In any case, I think I subconsciously learned to suppress these behaviors and attempt to "speak his language" to keep peace. He also loves debating, so any time I shared an idea with him, he'd almost always challenge it. We all learned to hold our own in an argument and "use our own mind", in keeping with a lot of the values he tried to pass on to us (honesty, authenticity, critical thinking, independence...)

This strong influence, combined with having an INTJ best friend and mostly introverted, thinking-preference-types in my closest circle of friends in high school made me desire to both be and appear more analytical. To get along/fit in, I guess? As someone who was bullied in elementary/middle school, I think I also came to associate Fe behaviors/values with the "normal" people who had so often excluded/harassed me, so at that time I even held a bit of disdain for it. But, secretly, even when I felt that way, I still wanted to belong (stories about outcasts searching for belonging really tug at my heart to this day). Finally, I was a pretty hyper, loud kid who goofed around a lot for attention. As a result, I found it hard to get people to take me seriously. So later in my teens, I tried very hard to be a responsible, "serious thinker" in the hopes that my teachers and peers would start to see me as someone they could respect.

And that ends the saga on the Thinking vs. Feeling discrepancy haha  Hope that provides more context.



Jewl said:


> The dominant Fe-user can be unconventional and individualistic. What you have with a dominant Fe-user is often someone who often sees what is right, objectively, and champions that thing. *I know people joke around that it's those social justice warrior INFPs going against the grain of society, but I actually think you're more likely to see a morally impassioned Fe-dom drawing people with them to take a stand because something is objectively wrong in society, justice is this thing that is unyielding that should be extended to everyone*. Think Martin Luther King JR and Obama - both good examples of Fe-doms doing their thing.
> 
> Also Rapunzel from Tangled is a good example of a Fe-dom. An ESFJ, mind you, but definitely Fe-dom all the way. *A lot of her struggle comes from aligning herself to being a "good daughter" to her mom.* There's stereotypical Ne-tropes ("I've got a dream"), but they're mainly superficial and don't truly colour her personality.


Oh interesting, I usually see Rapunzel typed as ENFP. Maybe because of the stereotypical Ne-tropes? Gonna have to look into that, would be fun to see the reasoning behind ESFJ.

I bolded some things that really jumped out at me. The first, because this is something about the INFP description that I related to - the whole 'Joan of Arc' crusading for ideals thing. The advice I receive most often, from all kinds of unrelated sources, is that I need to learn how to "choose my battles" and "stop tilting at windmills". My family calls me a "crusader" a lot (mostly because my attempts to "help" them be more inclusive out in the world mostly come off as self-righteous and pushy; for instance, letting them know that some of the language they use is offensive to marginalized members of society - "***", "retarded", etc - sorry to type them here, but wanted to give examples to be clear that I really only do this in the case of words considered to be slurs). Not sure how this relates to Fe vs. Fi?



Jewl said:


> ENFPs are much more a bunch of flaky dreamers. Think John Lennon's song "Imagine". *Think Ariel from The Little Mermaid.* *There's a lot of getting swept away by the idea of things. Dominant Ne is characterized by chasing after ideas and potentials. Excitement and enthusiasm towards what could be.* I notice in my case, I love people. I love wondering about them and their stories. I do a lot of thinking about social problems, but I generally like to solve them mainly by getting caught up in some idea, some potential.


I do feel a lot of excitement and enthusiasm towards what could be, and often get caught up in ideas. The only thing is, my brother is an ENFP, and, for whatever reason, we clash a lot. To be clear, I love him tons and both respect and admire him has a person (his humor, his creativity, his brightness). I only bring up the idea of our clashing because a lot of it can be boiled down to him viewing my attitude as uptight and judgmental and me viewing his attitude as selfish and careless. I've wondered if this might be a typical Fi vs. Fe conflict? It's strange, because he has this relaxed openness (he's much more open to people and experiences than I am) and deep sensitivity, but at the same time he can often toss out harsh opinions about other people without considering where they might be coming from. For instance, he's always done well socially and romantically, so he views people who post on online support group forums about problems with social anxiety, self improvement, etc. as "whiny losers". I wish he could understand how lucky he is to be naturally charismatic, and have more compassion for those who are different. I also get hurt/frustrated by his tendency to follow his own whims wherever they lead him, without considering other peoples' needs and wants. He'll end a conversation when he feels like it, even if the other person wants to keep talking. He'll push to go to a certain restaurant/movie even if everyone else has agreed on a different option, and because he is so emphatic/persuasive/funny, he often gets his way. Small stuff like that. I'm sure he would have just as much to say about me haha. Ultimately, we are still very close, but it's this difference in our approach to things that can cause tension.

Also, not sure why, but I adore Rapunzel as a character and, though I enjoyed Ariel as well, whenever I watched The Little Mermaid, I got upset with her "whim following". I can understand how this could be viewed as a very positive thing, as independence and a spirit of adventure... But to me personally, it seemed reckless, as the price of finally being part of this new world came at the expense of her voice, her family's safety, and almost her own life. It worked out well in the end, but what if it hadn't? Would it have been worth all of that damage done to herself and others? These are the questions that haunt me, haha. I need a life. But again, wondering if that's a similar Fe/Ni vs. Fi/Ne conflict?



Jewl said:


> After meeting some people who were homeless and weighing how significant those interactions were to me and just what was significant about it (Fi), I was swept away by this idea of opening up our house to let strangers with no place in, and how lovely that would be... and what if _everyone _did that? The idea of spare rooms being for people with no home and inviting them in to a warm home-y place, not just a mere shelter, was amazing... and I still haven't given up on that idea. My husband knows he's in for it having married me. Haha.


Aw, this sounds lovely. I hope the dream comes true 



Jewl said:


> When I was little, there was a lot of imaginative, "What if that puddle is a portal to another world," and playing like that. A lot of "could be".


Same here - I imagined my grandmother's birdbath to be the portal 



Jewl said:


> But also that dominant Ne comes with a downside - *as soon as all the possibilities have been exhausted, it's on to the next new exciting thing. You end up dropping a lot, and follow through is difficult. Starting things can even be difficult - you enjoy mulling over the idea of it, and then maybe making it happen, all those details are too boring and tedious. Onto the next thing.
> *
> Just thought I'd put that out there in case you find yourself best in one of those general descriptions.


See, this is where I really identify with Ne. Not so much with following whims from experience to experience, but from idea to idea. I have so many unfinished projects lying around, two stacks of unfinished books on my bedside table that I choose from every night... I can be really indecisive, and a lot of my friends think I'm a total space case. 

The thing is, I also can be resistant to my INTP fiance's secondary Ne when we're having conversations. A lot of times I start to feel a bit bewildered, like I keep trying to get us to build to some overarching conclusion together, and he keeps branching off to different topics that derail the 'overarching conclusion' train. I try to follow the bouncy energy of his Ne as much as I can, but it doesn't feel quite natural, and I find myself sneakily trying to connect the branches he's making back to the main road.

Thank you for suggesting ENFP as an alternative and providing a thoughtful comparison! I think I was quick to relate to the ENFJ typing, but relate to a lot of the descriptions you gave for the ENFP functions as well. I'm still a bit puzzled with the Fe vs. Fi thing, but maybe y'all have more experience distinguishing those and can see more evidence for one or the other?


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## platypal (Jan 21, 2018)

catharsiis said:


> ENFJ would be my first guess, but I also could see ENFP or maybe even ENTP.
> 
> I sense a lot of Fe in your post, but the way you write gives me Ne vibes. Fe-Ni and Ne-Fi can be hard to tell apart at times, at least to me.
> That's also why I could see you being ENTP; Ne-Fe would make a lot of sense. You seem a lot like a feeler, though. I don't see much Ti in your post, but I could be wrong (I'll admit I kind of skimmed through it)


Don't blame you for skimming hah  Yeah, I've wondered ENTP sometimes too, since I worry that I have poor self awareness and end up sounding harsh in my style of communication without meaning to. So, maybe I value Fe, but it's not a strong enough function to make me naturally diplomatic and adept at handling emotions/social dynamics? I don't tend to "hide" negative feelings the way Fe-dom types are said to do. I tend to be pretty direct/upfront whenever someone hurts my feelings (which can create conflict, but in my mind it's clearing the air to prevent bigger conflict from forming, if that makes sense?) My best friend once laughed at how I don't "take crap" from anyone. I was a bit embarrassed when she said it heh, wondering if maybe I was being a bit _too_ defensive with people ;P I think I've just repressed feelings and taken a lot of poor treatment from others to keep the peace in the past, so maybe I'm hyper-vigilant now. But I can also relate to that "shifting view of self" that I read about so often for ENTPs. This thread is a good example of that, I think. 

*Giant shoulder shrug*


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## Jewl (Feb 28, 2012)

platypal said:


> Hm, good question... I've thought about this a lot lately, since I've been feeling aimless and confused, and unsure of whether I have any real identity (do I really know who I am? What is the purpose of my life? etc.) I started to wonder whether this inner turmoil might be due to me running away from my natural preferences (more of a think-y approach), trying to be something else because I am uncomfortable with who I really am. But the more I think about why I scored T in high school, the more I think it might have been due to a desire to get along with and be "taken seriously" by my family, friends, and peers.
> 
> My dad was my primary caretaker growing up, a stay at home dad, and he scores as ENTP. I think his Fe comes out in a strong devotion to his loved ones, a "keep the good times rolling" attitude when we spend time together, and encouragement/motivation (he really believes in me and my brothers, and I mean big-hearted, the sky is the limit, you-can-do-anything _believing_). BUT, in conflicts, he can be harshly critical of any emotionality. I have heard the phrases "you're too sensitive" and "you worry too much" more times than I can count. A lot of the "worry too much" came in response to times when I'd ruminate over how to handle a sensitive interpersonal situation, thinking through potential ways of dealing with it and how they would effect everyone involved.
> 
> ...


It definitely helps us understand why you express things the way you do.  So maybe some of that ambiguous T/F stuff I'm getting from you is more because of what you've said here. Do you still find yourself relating more to Feeling than to Thinking? I mean, Feeling is not the same thing as emotion, or the expression of it. I do notice those with a Feeling preference often use emotion to help in the process of evaluating things, but there's a lot of rationality that comes with it too. 

My husband is an INTP - and he certainly has emotions and expresses them and also of course is guided by things that he values. He is very good at articulating his ethics - probably more than me. He's very analytical and philosophical about it, actually. 

That's just an example of how type is less _what_ we think, but is much more _how_ we think. Often when me and my husband talk about issues or just stuff in general, it's not like he's the more rational one and I'm just all emotional. It's more like he is defining stuff and understanding it more from a "framework" standpoint, and I'm _evaluating_ (how much worth does it have, is it good, etc) everything.

I'm certainly still getting Feeling vibes from you.  Because I feel this whole time, you've still been doing just that - evaluating. Naturally, we all do both! But when it comes to functions, you think which one plays a more leading role and which one is less preferred and is more subservient to the other. It's like how you prefer to draw or write with one hand - it's not like you don't use the other, but it often takes a different role. And if your non-preferred hand tried to do the same thing as your preferred hand, it would be messy. 



> Oh interesting, I usually see Rapunzel typed as ENFP. Maybe because of the stereotypical Ne-tropes? Gonna have to look into that, would be fun to see the reasoning behind ESFJ.


The fact that so many people type Rapunzel as ENFP is hilarious to me. There's nothing Ne-ish except for the superficial Disney "I've gotta dream" trope thrown in there, very Disney "When you wish upon a star" sort of thing. Rapunzel is _all_ Feeling - dominant Feeling. And very Fe. When does she ever engage with _concept_? Push for change or even dream of it? That the only thing she dreams about are those lights tells me it's just a trope. And it feels more like Rapunzel is being drawn to the truth of her past than dreaming of the potential future.

Also, I don't know if I can imagine a Ne-dom spending their whole life in a tower... ever.  And how does her mom keep her there? Oh, because outside the tower there could be all of these negative things, negative possibilities, catastrophe! Which she eats up and is more like lower order Ne. Inferior Si or lower order tertiary Si would be more prone to note the less positive possibilities and feel more trapped, stuck in a rut - in this case stuck in a tower. (If you want a good example of a Si-_dom_ Disney character who is stuck in a rut for most of the movie, think Elsa. The perfect example of an ISTJ, IMO.) And of course she is frozen up by the feeling that she's being a terrible daughter. When she first sets out on her mission, she kind of just wants to see the lights and then go right back to that tower, satisfied. 

And Rapunzel is also a fantastic character with lots of depth and I love her just as much as the next person! She's a great example of an ESFJ. 

Another Disney character who I think might be a Fe-dom is Esmeralda from the Hunchback of Notre Dame. I like using Disney characters as examples of type because they are simple, kind of like caricatures and therefore easier for people to learn from. I think Esmeralda might just be an ENFJ. Esmeralda does a lot of crusading in that movie. It's all about what is objectively good, just, and agreeable - period. Without bringing her subjectivity (subjective Feeling is Fi's realm) into it. She expresses it with these objective value statements, and she draws people with her. She doesn't spend lots of time ruminating on the feeling specific things gave her or her interactions with people, there's not a lot of nuance - it's what is good, what is just, period. 



> *Frollo:* How dare you defy me?
> 
> *Esmeralda:* You mistreat this poor boy the same way you mistreat my people. You speak of justice, yet you are cruel to those most in need of your help!
> 
> ...


... Yeah, she's a freaking awesome character.

Ariel is probably the only Disney princess that is ENFP as far as I know. 

The thing about ENFPs is they lead with Ne, same as ENTPs. Ne is running the show. Jung said Ne likes going after nascent possibilities - things _just_ coming into existence and beginning to show glimmers of future potential. ENFPs are more similar to ESFPs really than ESFJs. ESFPs are also all about the world around them and experiencing it all, taking in all the world has to offer. ENFPs and ESFPs are both exploratory types - one in the world of ideas, and one in the world of physical experience. 

Haha sorry, I rambled.



> I bolded some things that really jumped out at me. The first, because this is something about the INFP description that I related to - the whole 'Joan of Arc' crusading for ideals thing. The advice I receive most often, from all kinds of unrelated sources, is that I need to learn how to "choose my battles" and "stop tilting at windmills". My family calls me a "crusader" a lot (mostly because my attempts to "help" them be more inclusive out in the world mostly come off as self-righteous and pushy; for instance, letting them know that some of the language they use is offensive to marginalized members of society - "***", "retarded", etc - sorry to type them here, but wanted to give examples to be clear that I really only do this in the case of words considered to be slurs). Not sure how this relates to Fe vs. Fi?


What it tells me is that you certainly have values, and the way they often are expressed is in an external fashion. _Could_ point to Fe. 

The Fi-user is actually more likely to keep things brewing under the surface. When it does surface, it might be tough for others to understand. I'm gonna quote myself on this one: 



> Jung said of Fi that it would "seldom appear on the surface". Still waters run deep. Fi is about focusing on what something gives you, being an Introverted function (internally oriented).
> 
> Jung says the Fi-user is almost worse than the Ti-user or has a harder time expressing themselves. That's because now instead of being able to just lay out a logical argument, it takes significant descriptive or artistic ability in order for someone to feel the same inner intensity you do and understand all of the depth you are weighing.
> 
> ...


Hahaha this post is going to be long, isn't it? Oh dear.



> I do feel a lot of excitement and enthusiasm towards what could be, and often get caught up in ideas. The only thing is, my brother is an ENFP, and, for whatever reason, we clash a lot. To be clear, I love him tons and both respect and admire him has a person (his humor, his creativity, his brightness). I only bring up the idea of our clashing because a lot of it can be boiled down to him viewing my attitude as uptight and judgmental and me viewing his attitude as selfish and careless. I've wondered if this might be a typical Fi vs. Fe conflict? It's strange, because he has this relaxed openness (he's much more open to people and experiences than I am) and deep sensitivity, but at the same time he can often toss out harsh opinions about other people without considering where they might be coming from. For instance, he's always done well socially and romantically, so he views people who post on online support group forums about problems with social anxiety, self improvement, etc. as "whiny losers". I wish he could understand how lucky he is to be naturally charismatic, and have more compassion for those who are different. I also get hurt/frustrated by his tendency to follow his own whims wherever they lead him, without considering other peoples' needs and wants. He'll end a conversation when he feels like it, even if the other person wants to keep talking. He'll push to go to a certain restaurant/movie even if everyone else has agreed on a different option, and because he is so emphatic/persuasive/funny, he often gets his way. Small stuff like that. I'm sure he would have just as much to say about me haha. Ultimately, we are still very close, but it's this difference in our approach to things that can cause tension.
> 
> Also, not sure why, but I adore Rapunzel as a character and, though I enjoyed Ariel as well, whenever I watched The Little Mermaid, I got upset with her "whim following". I can understand how this could be viewed as a very positive thing, as independence and a spirit of adventure... But to me personally, it seemed reckless, as the price of finally being part of this new world came at the expense of her voice, her family's safety, and almost her own life. *It worked out well in the end, but what if it hadn't? Would it have been worth all of that damage done to herself and others? *These are the questions that haunt me, haha. I need a life. But again, wondering if that's a similar Fe/Ni vs. Fi/Ne conflict?


Haha, well, your brother sounds like he might just be immature in some ways. I'm usually pretty sensitive to how others will hear things when I say them. Offensive language, well, I personally don't like it either. You're right about Ariel. I think the key to understanding her is that she felt suffocated by a world and routine that had become like a prison to her. That said, she's a rather meh ENFP, but the only Disney example I know of one. Also I bolded the part in your post that shows me how you seem to have an evaluative focus. Though what you bring out is very rational, the process you went through to get there was a weighing-y evaluative one... and has an objective tinge to me. So maybe a hint of Fe showing?



> Aw, this sounds lovely. I hope the dream comes true


Thanks. ^-^



> Same here - I imagined my grandmother's birdbath to be the portal


Hahaha that is awesome.



> See, this is where I really identify with Ne. Not so much with following whims from experience to experience, but from idea to idea. I have so many unfinished projects lying around, two stacks of unfinished books on my bedside table that I choose from every night... I can be really indecisive, and a lot of my friends think I'm a total space case.
> 
> The thing is, I also can be resistant to my INTP fiance's secondary Ne when we're having conversations. A lot of times I start to feel a bit bewildered, like I keep trying to get us to build to some overarching conclusion together, and he keeps branching off to different topics that derail the 'overarching conclusion' train. I try to follow the bouncy energy of his Ne as much as I can, but it doesn't feel quite natural, and I find myself sneakily trying to connect the branches he's making back to the main road.


Huh that is interesting. That focus on some overarching conclusion... I don't know if Ne ever tries making an overarching conclusion. Sometimes Fi can because it's ever seeking after some abstract universal thing that is felt. But Ne never gets there - it's all about more and more what ifs, could bes, new perspectives, new ideas, not quite reaching a conclusion and wanting to see more and more of what lies around every bend. 

Also your mental imagery there is interesting. 



> Thank you for suggesting ENFP as an alternative and providing a thoughtful comparison! I think I was quick to relate to the ENFJ typing, but relate to a lot of the descriptions you gave for the ENFP functions as well. I'm still a bit puzzled with the Fe vs. Fi thing, but maybe y'all have more experience distinguishing those and can see more evidence for one or the other?


Hopefully I gave you some helpful descriptions and differences above that can provide some clarity. For the record, I've heard a good example of a Fi-dom is Kurt Cobain, the once lead singer of Nirvana. I find stuff like poetry and song and art and writing is often where Fi-doms and auxs can sort of articulate the things they feel hold significance to them. I think Jewel the artist is another example of a Fi-user artist. Dar Williams as well. 

_"And it felt like
A winter machine that you go through and then
You catch your breath and winter starts again
And everyone else is spring bound"_

I don't know why. Stuff like that feels very... Fi-ish to me. There are definitely Fe-artists out there too, though.  Actually, that song Same Love has a Fe-feel... just in the way it was expressed. And it very much rallied the people. Probably because it was a crusading song. I think that people who express things like that and crusade in that way are more likely to have an Fe-preference. *shrugs* but that is more my personal idea and opinion. And it was more about standing behind a cause, I think. Fe is all about causes - once again, what is good and suitable and right in society.


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## Love (May 20, 2012)

platypal said:


> Mind expanding? To be fair (not attached to the idea of INFJ or a Ti preference, just want to make sure you have all of the info), I've been trying to analyze on my own for over a year now. So I've tunneled pretty deep, but it has led to 'paralysis by analysis'. My friends and family often tell me that I overthink things. Interested to hear your perspective on how that might relate to Ti/why you probably ruled out Ti.


For an INFJ, being introverts, they spend a lot of time in their inner world with their introverted functions Ni + Ti. Ni + Ti is obsessed, can just about drive one mad. There is always more to perceive, always more to analyze. This is why we may get stuck in a tunnel obsessing over something until we seem to have thorough understanding only to go back later and search further, obsessing over it more. It’s just about impossible to stop.

If you are experiencing paralysis by analysis perhaps you need more fuel, keep searching legit sources for information. 

Ti does not look for external validation of one’s own logic. External gathering of facts, yes, but not validation for one’s own logic. I cannot fathom someone with Ti preference feeling like further analyzing on one’s own will only add to the confusion. Although, I can see inferior Ti perhaps being a possibility.


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## platypal (Jan 21, 2018)

Sorry for dropping off the face of the planet. Wedding planning is super fun and not at all stressful  Thank you for your thoughtful comments! Responding now...



Jewl said:


> Do you still find yourself relating more to Feeling than to Thinking?
> 
> That's just an example of how type is less _what_ we think, but is much more _how_ we think. Often when me and my husband talk about issues or just stuff in general, it's not like he's the more rational one and I'm just all emotional. *It's more like he is defining stuff and understanding it more from a "framework" standpoint, and I'm evaluating (how much worth does it have, is it good, etc) everything.
> *
> I'm certainly still getting Feeling vibes from you.  Because I feel this whole time, you've still been doing just that - evaluating.


Absolutely, so relate to the dynamic between you and your husband. I think a good example of this is the conversation I had with my INTP fiance this morning.

We were talking about my brother (the ENFP previously mentioned), who called me in the middle of an intense anxiety attack the night before. I was telling my fiance about how my brother expressed paranoid delusions as well as delusions of grandeur during his anxiety attack. I felt conflicted during the call because, on one hand, I wanted to be supportive/empathetic/nonjudgmental; my brother was anxious and needed comfort, after all. But on the other hand, some of the things he was saying were deeply troubling - I worried that if I enabled these view points, he could go further down a path towards unhealthy narcissism (and become damaging to himself and others). 

Eventually, I chose to mostly listen, and then at the tail-end of the call, recommend that he seek therapy/professional treatment, expressing it as empathetically as I could ("hey, it sounds like you're experiencing intense emotions, and these thoughts are spiraling from that... I struggle with that too, and therapy has really helped me. Have you thought about it?") My brother seemed to feel encouraged by that, which was a relief. 

However, it still weighed on my mind, and I talked it over with my fiance to hear his perspective. The whole conversation, we were working from the same question - "Did I do the right thing with my brother?" And it was funny to see him going about setting up that "framework" you mention. It was like he was setting up a system of rules ("what are we defining as 'right'? Is it based on an idea of normative behavior? What do we consider 'normative behavior'?") and then trying to figure out whether my actions _made sense_ according to those rules. Whereas I was evaluating, like you mention. Trying to determine, based on my values and beliefs, whether what I had done was _morally right, good_ - the impact my actions had not only on my brother, but also the ripple effect on the world. I wondered if I was trying to get my brother "help" was really just me trying to get him to conform to some idea of "normal". What if I was pushing him to fit into a broken/misguided world, and so perpetuating a less-than-ideal status quo? And what if recommending him to consider medication for his anxiety was perpetuating a problem in Western biomedicine with overmedicating/medicalizing issues? 

See, this is why people tell me I worry too much all the time, hah. Also, sorry if this all is navel-gazing-y or pretentious. I wish I could just think on individual terms, just think about how to best support my brother, what _he_ needs. But I'm always evaluating things against my values/beliefs/principles, which is a pretty self-centered when I think about it. I love people, I love my family, but I sometimes feel like a bad friend/fiance/sister/daughter/you name it, because I find myself being more loyal to ideas of "goodness" than to people. Cripes. Is that awful? Should I be embarrassed about emotionally dumping/revealing all of my insecurities on an internet form? Maaaaaybeeeee.

Okay, this really derailed... Lol yes, definitely relate more to feeling in the way you define here! Also, holy moly, the stuff above flowed way more naturally. Thinking about other people's feelings/needs is a "principle" of mine, but I think I'm realizing now that it doesn't come naturally. Like the handwriting metaphor you gave (love that image), it's like writing with the opposite hand. It's more like I am naturally principle-driven, and one of those principles is to be selfless - the personal principles come first. So... hello Fi? Also, I know it would be easier for us to communicate if I gave shorter responses, but I end up feeling like everything is important and I don't know what to cut. Not sure if that is evidence of something, but there you go. Thank you so much for your patience with all of these words, words, words.



Jewl said:


> The fact that so many people type Rapunzel as ENFP is hilarious to me. When does she ever engage with _concept_? Push for change or even dream of it?
> 
> And it feels more like Rapunzel is being drawn to the truth of her past than dreaming of the potential future.
> 
> ...


This makes so much sense. Especially her motivation being based around being a good daughter, which then later transitions to being a good ruler for the kingdom's people. Love this! It makes me sad to see all the criticism that ESFJs receive, so it's nice to think of an example of one that bucks a lot of the stereotypes. 




Jewl said:


> Another Disney character who I think might be a Fe-dom is Esmeralda from the Hunchback of Notre Dame. I think Esmeralda might just be an ENFJ. Esmeralda does a lot of crusading in that movie. It's all about what is objectively good, just, and agreeable - period. Without bringing her subjectivity (subjective Feeling is Fi's realm) into it. *She expresses it with these objective value statements, and she draws people with her.* She doesn't spend lots of time ruminating on the feeling specific things gave her or her interactions with people, there's not a lot of nuance - it's what is good, what is just, period.
> 
> ... Yeah, she's a freaking awesome character.


Hah, yes, what a boss. The part in bold stuck out to me again, as I find whenever I communicate in objective value statements like Esmeralda, I feel dishonest. In my view, we all interpret "right" and "wrong" differently. And pushing my idea of right and wrong on other people, insisting that it is objective, would serve to manipulate them to my own perspective. So I tend to communicate in an "well, from _my_ perspective...", "I feel...", "feel free to agree to disagree, take it or leave it..." And it ends up sounding like all I do is think about myself, or I am wishy-washy, when really I just want to respect other people's views and not be presumptuous. At the end of the day, I want people to be able to do what they feel is right - if I disagree, I may try to explain my view if I feel strongly enough, and if they agree with it they can choose to change their mind. But if they don't, okay then, you do you and I'll do me. We're all just finding our way in this crazy world. Sometimes it'd be nice to approach things like Esmeralda, though, because it really does draw people together. I think my approach tends to emphasize individuality.




Jewl said:


> Haha sorry, I rambled.


Heh, no, it's great - there's rich detail. I love this stuff x)





Jewl said:


> Also I bolded the part in your post that shows me how you seem to have an evaluative focus. Though what you bring out is very rational, the process you went through to get there was a weighing-y evaluative one... and has an objective tinge to me. So maybe a hint of Fe showing?


It's funny that you mention a hint of Fe showing there, because I edited that response a lot! I am not sure what my initial impulse was when thinking about it, but I remember straining to communicate it in a more objective/how is this affecting others kind of way, because I worried that if I wasn't careful to do so, it could end up sounding much more judgmental than it was meant to. Again, the "opposite hand" kind of thing. I thought this was a situation in which it was important to communicate in more objective terms, but in service of an ideal of inclusivity, not as a natural way of speaking/thinking. Hrm.



Jewl said:


> Huh that is interesting. That focus on some overarching conclusion... *I don't know if Ne ever tries making an overarching conclusion. Sometimes Fi can because it's ever seeking after some abstract universal thing that is felt.* But Ne never gets there - it's all about more and more what ifs, could bes, new perspectives, new ideas, not quite reaching a conclusion and wanting to see more and more of what lies around every bend.


Hm, yeah, upon reflection, this tension may be more of the Ti/Fi difference discussed in the top response. I tend to "throw a lot out there", but I find that I am not attached to most of the ideas I throw out. After lots of exploration, I will settle on an idea if it still makes sense/feels right after taking it apart from all sides. I think that's why I posted here, I wanted to throw out these ideas to the personalitycafe community and see what other people thought. After taking in all of these different interpretations and reworking the idea of my type from every angle possible, maybe then I could sort out what I thought to be true. But even then, I am always open to changing my mind if new evidence is compelling enough.




Jewl said:


> Hopefully I gave you some helpful descriptions and differences above that can provide some clarity.


Definitely, thank you! 




Jewl said:


> For the record, I've heard a good example of a Fi-dom is Kurt Cobain, the once lead singer of Nirvana. I find stuff like poetry and song and art and writing is often where Fi-doms and auxs can sort of articulate the things they feel hold significance to them. I think Jewel the artist is another example of a Fi-user artist. Dar Williams as well.
> 
> _"And it felt like
> A winter machine that you go through and then
> ...


Interesting, yeah. Beautiful lyrics. And I definitely relate a lot to these artists - also, strangely enough, Holden Caulfield. All that desire to protect innocence, struggling to embrace adulthood, viewing adult society as "phony"... I know he's such a controversial character, so not sure what that says hah. In dark times, I become a ball of rebel-without-a-cause, special-snowflake angst, with lots of resentment/cynicism towards the world and other people. Hoooo lawd, what a treat x)


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