# [Seriously] Am I ENTP?!



## Apple Pine (Nov 27, 2014)

I wanted to edit my previous post, and I was 1-3minutes late...So a new thread! 
I am sure I won't provide all the relevant information having answered to these questions, but I will try my very best to provide accurate and carefully written answers, so it should be enough to form some thoughts. Would appreciate any kind of help! Ask me anything, we could even video-chat if you think you are quite aware of this theory  

Before that, I must say I relate to this person A LOT, same struggle, almost identical ennegram scores etc http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/what-s-my-type-/68648-am-entj-entp.html?highlight=ENTJ
I'd say I relate to Dr House's case, also between entp and intj, possible intp and entj...endless arguing!

*1. Is there anything that may affect the way you answer the questions? For example, a stressful time, mental illness, medications, special life circumstances? Other useful information includes sex, age, and current state of mind.*
Yes, my poor English. Feeling pretty good, excited as I will actually be busy in the next 1hour+! Male, 18. 

*2. Study these two images here and here. Which one do you prefer and why? How would you describe it?*
I spent like 10 mins on each picture 

First: Could be better quality . Anyway, it is a place you could go whenever you need some time alone. It symbolizes sadness, it's calm there. The photographer is most definitely ixfp 9. I think everyone would want to go there once, twice a year, pretend that they just lost their problems for a while, contemplate. For some reason it's easier to imagine one person sitting here rather than a group of people. Also, good place for dreaming or planning, if I were there I would probably: think of everything for a while, dream, adn then watch at the sky, and think of how many different people there are in the world, most of them die in the same corner they were born, I don't want to be like most of us, (well, that's GOT quote, which I like), I should stop wasting my time and start working, and then I'd probably go home as...I am wasting my time right there. 

Second: I don't see her face, but she strikes me as organized, emotional and caring person [hey, isfj]. It seems it's in some old-fashion cafe, as we can see not modern table and dat wall. I am trying to imagine what I would talk about with her(I am good at it, as I constantly imagine potential future conversations in my mind, which helps me to share my thoughts with myself, this way to understand something much better), hm. I can't imagine this conversation going well, we would probably talk about hitler, I would listen to her recent experiences, basically I would be a listener for the most part, as I can hardly imagine talking about how terrible something is, and how it should be changed, or share my plans, ideas. Tho, it's possible that I would talk more, if she wanted to talk about what she's going to study, what are her ambitions, probably criticize her plans and give her some wisdom she lacks.

I prefer 1, definitely, it's unique experience, and it would at least be helpful to ME. 

*3. Please describe yourself as a person if you were to introduce yourself to someone else like in a cover letter. What kind of person are you and why?*
Hi, I have a name! NO, honestly I don't think I would be able to introduce myself in a way that it wouldn't look as a letter from an idiot. I'd say hi, and then the conversation begins, and hopefully continues. I would love to skip that boring where are you from, what are you studying, and just start discussing about something, and both will naturally answer that questions at some point. Discuss, share ideas, help him/her if she lacks logic in making a decision, or is doing something that seems stupid to me(I DON'T CARE if it is normal in society, as it's stupid to me). 

Imaginative(intuitive, constantly imagining conversations with others, debating with myself, imagining how I am making a POWERFUL, MEMORABLE speech which influences a lot of people etc), funny at times, not always serious, quite lazy (I constantly critique myself), not very spontanoues, ambivert, tend to miss details all the time, high standards, perfectionist, turbulent, not adapting(for example I refused to smoke, most of the old classmates did that, yet I didn't try to adapt, stayed true to myself), a bit awkward[?](even though home is terrible environment to me, literally no people like me around, few friends, always sitting at home unless school, poor, I am more emotionally stable, curious, excited, high energy, ambitious, hardly any competition to me at school). 

*4. What kind of person would you LIKE to be? Why? What kind of person would you NOT want to be? Why?*
Myself, just no wasted years, different living place, no need arguing/explaining things to relatives, as they don't get it(traditional or illogical), totally different school, better economical situation? I would definitely be more disciplined, erh basically better at everything, from social life to wiser :/. 

Genius, ambitious, extremely shy, doubtful, depressed, confused. It's much worse than anything, feels potential but literally can't do anything at all, how would this kind of person be ever happy?

*5. Do you think there are any differences to how you described yourself and how people actually perceive you? How do you think others would describe you? If there are any discrepancies between these two that are you are aware of; do you know why exactly that is?*
Before that, I just spent 1 hour chatting with friends, got distracted, continuing...Oh yes, definitely. Others would describe me as different, perhaps detached, introverted(as I am usually alone), nerd who is playing games(most "different" do that, isn't that right? That's stereotypical "different"), indimmiating. Obviously that's just at the first look, if they talked to me, they would realize how wrong they are, but only if it would be longer than 10 seconds conversation, as I am awkward at first, and I don't know what to say, chit-chat is not for me.

*6. What in life do you find to be of importance? Why? If you are unsure you can always take the Value Test and post the results here. Do note that it helps if you narrow it down to 20 or ideally 10 values as suggested at stage 2.*
Success, being better than others, not working for someone and having to obey, a few very good friends, girlfriend, respect, health, independence, helping others 20+years later, power, dominance, freedom, happiness, knowledge, appreciation etc. Here you go, my goals, that's what is important to me, I don't care that I can't use some of them currently, but I WILL. 

*7. How do you react to new situations in your life? Can you describe an event in your life where you were in an unknown situation? How did you deal with it?*
Like what new situation? IT COMPLETELY DEPENDS!!!!!! Unknown situation is rare to me, if I am about to visit a new city, I will be obsessed making sure that I know everything about the city, triple check I have taken everything, so I won't mess up or get lost there. Also as I said, I imagine potential future events, sometimes it just literally happens. I am really not sure how to answer to this question. 
*
8. Please describe yourself when you are in a stressful situation. How do you act and why? Real life experiences are welcome.*
I just shut down, if something unexpected comes in front of me. I tend to get anxious, perhaps somewhat depressed, and angry, blaming everything around, thinking of the reason why I let this happen, I usually end up blaming my environment, people that were involved in this - just everything. Surprisingly I am not eager to withdrawn and then I want to talk with my friends even more than usual, about anything, or just discuss about it. Also, i get stressed out and shut down if someone points out my failures, or proves that I am not that as good at something, as I thought, this way I end up blaming people as well, but also get emotional...Basically pointing out my failures or proving me that I am not good at something is lethal blow to me...I don't mind being criticized, but anything that touches my competence is painful. If I start thinking about problems after that, I may become very depressed, and I will probably even show emotions talking to my friends, yet I will be careful, and it will be hard to realize that I am in a really bad shape at that moment. It seems I want some support, but at the same time I don't want to share my emotions, show my weaknesses, even when I am basically dead inside. When I am stressed, my laziness, a bit messy room[when I was young I was very messy tho] etc gets on my nerves. No matter how stressed out I am, I always control myself, I won't do something stupid.

9. Please describe yourself when you are in an enjoyable situation. How do you act and why? Real life experiences are welcome.
I guess we live in the moment when we are in enjoyable situations. Well, if I am in one, I am probably planning, creating a masterpiece plan(yet they always collapse, as routine is painful, It's even hard for me to brush my teeth...seems like easy and fast, but...), analyzing something, doing maths, chatting with friends. Why? I get excited and I am busy at that moment, that's why I don't have time to even think about what I am doing.

*10. Describe your relationship to socialization. How do you perceive one-on-one interaction? How do you perceive group interaction?*
One-on-one is perfect. Less people, lower listening/talking. If the partner makes a mistake, you can quickly fix it, discuss about it, you won't have to wait for it. I dislike group interactions, as it's a mess, high chance of getting interfered, focusing on too many things, hard to control the situation, probably a lot of false conclusions made, probably not knowing something about a few people etc. Yet group activities much better if I needed ideas of how to solve some problem, but at this very moment I completely avoid group interactions. 
*11. Describe your relationship to society. What are the elements of it you hold important or unimportant (e.g. social norms, values, customs, traditions)? How do you see people as a whole?*
Divorced before marriage ^^. Well, all of us see what's wrong, and I am afraid it seems that almost everything is wrong, and strange to me. I won't answer to this, but it would be an interesting discussion on this question! People as whole? Everyone is good at something, and we need everyone. We need killers, so people be more cautious, we need dumb people, as some jobs are perfect for them.. etc, tho I think I didn't understand the question. 

*14. What is it that you fear in life? Why? How does this fear manifest to you both in how you think and how you act?*
Not reaching my goals, being sad and working repetitive, boring job just to keep myself alive. 

*15. What is it that you desire in life? What do you strive to achieve? Why? Where do you think these drives and desires stem from or are inspired by?*
I've kinda answered that.

*17. Why do you want to know your type? What type do you think you are? Why this/these type(s)? Is there a type that appeals to you, to your self-perception, that you would like to be? Why? If you know your enneagram, please post this here. If you have done any online function tests such as the Keys2Cognition, it helps if you post these results here as well.*
That's definitely helpful. For the most part entp or intj, but enfp and entj are possible. Maybe Entj, but I could easily be one to be honest, so lol. 3w4. Weakest ones are 7(yep), 2 and 9(very weak). I doubt tests results can help.

*18. Finally, is there something else you find to be of importance you want to add about yourself you think might be of relevance when helping to type you?*

A bit random...All over the place:/

There are moments of NE+SI, I remember something and connect it with some idea that is presented by someone. Seems like I prefer te over ti. Socionics 100% results type. Seems like only fi/se/si possible inferior function. I relate to both intutions. I smile quite much when interacting, I am cheerful when,[ especially sharing my crazy ideas like my plan that I will shoot a movie in 2years, main character will be me, and other actors will be plush toys, but I didn't even think of the process of doing that, but the outcome and what would happen when it gets popular & well rated...], probably means tertiary fe/fi. It's hard to start an activity, hard to keep reading long texts, I tend to skip words and sentences. When doing maths, always rushing with my own methods, most efficient ones, and my goal is always the answer only. Very awkward, half of me shuts down when I have to show my emotions, even giving a gift to someone is a challenge :|. I hate getting distracted, I get very angry, and I will try everything to avoid doing that. Hate when I am told what to do, like I don't know what to do myself...If I say to myself I'll go to sleep at 1am...well it won't happen, I'll be interested in something way too much at night. Compliments seem strange and immature for the most part. Well, perhaps some childhood stuff: 
*[]*Introverted, somewhat dominating, curious, creative and unemotional, confused with it(hugs, kisses seemed very strange, tried to avoid that). I used to spend a lot of my time constructing stuff from LEGO, puzzles, doing experimental works, like mixing various types of liquids and herbs to see what I get, playing chess(I have about 10 awards from a few competitions). When I got a computer at 12-13~, played a lot of games, but what I liked was researching, finding out how to better than others, rather than just enjoying the game.
*Finally*, seems I need to debate with myself after learning something, otherwise I won't "learn" how to explain what I learnt. Obviously, I mean to be much better at that...Eh...Oh, and, If I try to remember what someone said to me - I can't really do that, but I kinda remember how I felt, or he felt, what happened before that or after..yet not that well either. If there was a conflict, I would think about that and if I think one of them is wrong, I'd like to intefere, but not because I want to make them feel better. It seems I apply high standards to others, so as for me working minimum wage is weak, everyone who does that will seem as an idiot to me. I think dying hair and piercings is weird, so if someone comes to me with pink hair, I will instantly judge him as an idiot, weirdo. Talking of looks, I care about that, but definitely not too much, and I am not up to do weird things: no dying, no tattoos, no piercings etc.


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## bkdjdnfbnne (Mar 8, 2015)

I'm inclined to say ISFJ.


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## eb44345 (Mar 9, 2014)

Okay, I'll just jot down my thoughts as reading through your post...



> 2. Study these two images here and here. Which one do you prefer and why? How would you describe it?
> I spent like 10 mins on each picture
> 
> First: Could be better quality . Anyway, it is a place you could go whenever you need some time alone. It symbolizes sadness, it's calm there. The photographer is most definitely ixfp 9. I think everyone would want to go there once, twice a year, pretend that they just lost their problems for a while, contemplate. For some reason it's easier to imagine one person sitting here rather than a group of people. Also, good place for dreaming or planning, if I were there I would probably: think of everything for a while, dream, adn then watch at the sky, and think of how many different people there are in the world, most of them die in the same corner they were born, I don't want to be like most of us, (well, that's GOT quote, which I like), I should stop wasting my time and start working, and then I'd probably go home as...I am wasting my time right there.
> ...


You talk of symbolism, potential conversations, what could be, etc. I lean towards a type with Ni or Ne higher than Si or Se, but it's preliminary.



> Hi, I have a name! NO, honestly I don't think I would be able to introduce myself in a way that it wouldn't look as a letter from an idiot. I'd say hi, and then the conversation begins, and hopefully continues. I would love to skip that boring where are you from, what are you studying, and just start discussing about something, and both will naturally answer that questions at some point. Discuss, share ideas, help him/her if she lacks logic in making a decision, or is doing something that seems stupid to me(I DON'T CARE if it is normal in society, as it's stupid to me).


That last sentence stood out to me. Someone who does not accept society's standards for normalcy, so you are probably not an Fe type (xxFJ). The "lacks logic in making a decision" quote could indicate that you highly value logic for decision-making. This is more indicative of Ti (valuing logic) as opposed to Te (values whatever works), and makes more sense for Ti too since Ti is in conflict with Fe (social normalcy).



> Imaginative(intuitive, constantly imagining conversations with others, debating with myself, imagining how I am making a POWERFUL, MEMORABLE speech which influences a lot of people etc), funny at times, not always serious, quite lazy (I constantly critique myself), not very spontanoues, ambivert, tend to miss details all the time, high standards, perfectionist, turbulent, not adapting(for example I refused to smoke, most of the old classmates did that, yet I didn't try to adapt, stayed true to myself), a bit awkward[?](even though home is terrible environment to me, literally no people like me around, few friends, always sitting at home unless school, poor, I am more emotionally stable, curious, excited, high energy, ambitious, hardly any competition to me at school).


Right now I'm leaning towards INTP while reading this and most of this paragraph is consistent with INTP except the "not very spontaneous" comment. Ne types are usually spontaneous, but then again if you are a young INTP, then the Ne is auxiliary and not fully developed yet.



> 5. Do you think there are any differences to how you described yourself and how people actually perceive you? How do you think others would describe you? If there are any discrepancies between these two that are you are aware of; do you know why exactly that is?
> Before that, I just spent 1 hour chatting with friends, got distracted, continuing...Oh yes, definitely. Others would describe me as different, perhaps detached, introverted(as I am usually alone), nerd who is playing games(most "different" do that, isn't that right? That's stereotypical "different"), indimmiating. Obviously that's just at the first look, if they talked to me, they would realize how wrong they are, but only if it would be longer than 10 seconds conversation, as I am awkward at first, and I don't know what to say, chit-chat is not for me.


Being described as detached and intimidating points more towards a 'T' type and probably an 'NT' type, although 'ST' types can be this way too. The constant distractions are very typical of Ne types.



> 7. How do you react to new situations in your life? Can you describe an event in your life where you were in an unknown situation? How did you deal with it?
> Like what new situation? IT COMPLETELY DEPENDS!!!!!! Unknown situation is rare to me, if I am about to visit a new city, I will be obsessed making sure that I know everything about the city, triple check I have taken everything, so I won't mess up or get lost there. Also as I said, I imagine potential future events, sometimes it just literally happens. I am really not sure how to answer to this question.


The part about being obsessed with knowing everything about it and triple checking sounds an awful lot like Si. That's tertiary for INTP, so could make sense here, or it could point to a SJ type as well.



> 8. Please describe yourself when you are in a stressful situation. How do you act and why? Real life experiences are welcome.
> I just shut down, if something unexpected comes in front of me. I tend to get anxious, perhaps somewhat depressed, and angry, blaming everything around, thinking of the reason why I let this happen, I usually end up blaming my environment, people that were involved in this - just everything. Surprisingly I am not eager to withdrawn and then I want to talk with my friends even more than usual, about anything, or just discuss about it. Also, i get stressed out and shut down if someone points out my failures, or proves that I am not that as good at something, as I thought, this way I end up blaming people as well, but also get emotional...Basically pointing out my failures or proving me that I am not good at something is lethal blow to me...I don't mind being criticized, but anything that touches my competence is painful. If I start thinking about problems after that, I may become very depressed, and I will probably even show emotions talking to my friends, yet I will be careful, and it will be hard to realize that I am in a really bad shape at that moment. It seems I want some support, but at the same time I don't want to share my emotions, show my weaknesses, even when I am basically dead inside. When I am stressed, my laziness, a bit messy room[when I was young I was very messy tho] etc gets on my nerves. No matter how stressed out I am, I always control myself, I won't do something stupid.


Okay, this response clinches INTP. It's textbook dominant Ti with inferior Fe. The reaching out to people wanting to express your emotions but having issues with it is that inferior Fe coming out. When under stress people tend to rely most on their dominant (Ti) and inferior (Fe) functions. A type like INTJ is going to use Ni and Se when under stress. They are more likely to not talk to anyone at all and just do something reckless and spontaneous (Se).

The issue you describe is that normally suppressed Fe coming out in an uncontrolled way where you blame the people around you for whatever is wrong. Only INTP and ISTP have this reaction with Ti/Fe, but the previous answers point much more to Ne (INTP) than Se (ISTP). From here I can tell 100% INTP, but I'll continue on.



> 10. Describe your relationship to socialization. How do you perceive one-on-one interaction? How do you perceive group interaction?
> One-on-one is perfect. Less people, lower listening/talking. If the partner makes a mistake, you can quickly fix it, discuss about it, you won't have to wait for it. I dislike group interactions, as it's a mess, high chance of getting interfered, focusing on too many things, hard to control the situation, probably a lot of false conclusions made, probably not knowing something about a few people etc. Yet group activities much better if I needed ideas of how to solve some problem, but at this very moment I completely avoid group interactions.


This dislike of group activities is common for most types and doesn't really give much information. Only a handful of types really are into it (ENFJ, ENFP, ESFJ come to mind).



> 14. What is it that you fear in life? Why? How does this fear manifest to you both in how you think and how you act?
> Not reaching my goals, being sad and working repetitive, boring job just to keep myself alive.


Both Se and Ne types will usually say that they dislike repetition, particularly the Ne types will say this.



> I smile quite much when interacting


pretty much all types with Fe will be more like this while Fi types won't smile so much. Fe extraverts emotions. Fi internalizes them more.



> When doing maths, always rushing with my own methods, most efficient ones, and my goal is always the answer only


Both Te and Ti value efficiency. Creating your own problem-solving math methods involves a lot of logic and abstraction, which all NT types are best at.



> Hate when I am told what to do, like I don't know what to do myself


This is from the inferior Fe. Fe can easily be seen as "bossiness" (in a negative way), and the INTP and ISTP types have the most issues with "being told what to do" It also manifests in dominant Fi types (INFP and ISFP), but you don't appear to be one of those dominant Fi types, just mentioning that they have issues with that bossiness of Fe too for anyone who may be reading this and looking to learn how to type people right.

So, after coming to the conclusion of INTP, I read what types you thought you might be:


> That's definitely helpful. For the most part entp or intj, but enfp and entj are possible. Maybe Entj, but I could easily be one to be honest, so lol. 3w4. Weakest ones are 7(yep), 2 and 9(very weak). I doubt tests results can help.


INTP wasn't listed in there, but it's far and away the most likely. The perfectionism you describe comes primarily from the Ti, which is very logical, precise, analytical, etc and also from the tertiary Si, which is very detailed. The Si is a lot weaker than the Ti and overshadowed by they much larger auxiliary Ne, so missing details is the norm for the INTP. But the Si is not suppressed (since it's tertiary), so you do notice when you miss those details, unlike a type like ENTP, which has Si inferior, and misses the details and is oblivious to it (ENFP is that way too). INTP suppresses the Fe, so they will often have a lot of awkwardness and difficulties with society and social situations while the ENTP type is more adept in those environments.

To compare to a type like INTJ, the INTP is much more focused on logic. The INTP will love to analyze an idea logically, looking for consistency (Ti) and wanting to connect it to another idea (Ne). The INTJ will want to exclude other concepts that are unimportant. In general, Ni likes to contract the possibilities to what is most "likely" or "important" while Ne likes to expand the possibilities. They each have their strengths and weaknesses. Also, the INTJ is extremely practical compared to the INTP as their auxiliary Te has them thinking of an idea and testing if it works in the 'real world.'

While the INTP likes ideas to makes sense of ideas and think about them analytically, the INTJ likes to get the 'gist' of an idea, not really analyzing the intricacies of it, but rushing to apply it to a real world problem. In social situations, the INTJ is extremely awkward too like the INTP, and that's a lot of the reason that people confuse the types, but the awkwardness comes from different places. For the INTJ it's their inferior Se and difficulty just dealing with the physical world as it is. They are so much in their heads and into the hidden meanings behind things (Ni) that they have trouble with present, physical realities (Se). The INTJ doesn't have the emotional issues of the INTP with their inferior Fe. Interestingly, I'm INTJ and my brother is INTP, so I can really see the contrasts between the 2 types. When I'm stressed I might overeat. When he's stressed he wants to talk to people in his family. I know that's anecdotal though, but just kind of a contrast between inferior Se and inferior Fe.

So, I hope that helps!


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## Apple Pine (Nov 27, 2014)

Axwell said:


> I'm inclined to say ISFJ.


One of my parents is ISFJ. If I was isfj, I would be the creepiest and most off the typical isfj.



eb44345 said:


> EB44345


Hi, thanks for the reply. That, honestly, makes things even more confusing. I've been always skeptical on being TI dom, as one of my friends is an obvious INTP, and we are pretty much different. Also, It's probably true that my auxiliary hasn't developed yet, but could I really be that imaganitave, starting with childhood, constantly trying to predict what will happen, yet basically having only TI well developed? Just to make sure, I'll leave some comments below.

*The "lacks logic in making a decision" quote could indicate that you highly value logic for decision-making. This is more indicative of Ti (valuing logic) as opposed to Te (values whatever works), and makes more sense for Ti too since Ti is in conflict with Fe (social normalcy).*
Hmm..I don't think I am that obsessive with logic, but I just apply high standards to others. One of the reasons I think I prefer TE is that I look at things as "Will it be useful to me, do I need to know it?", I think NE+TI like to know everything that is interesting to them. Unlike my TI friend, if there's e=mc^2, I don't doubt that it's wrong, as it's proven. He, on the other hand, takes formula and reads about it, how it was created, proven, only then he'll accept this as a truth. 




*Right now I'm leaning towards INTP while reading this and most of this paragraph is consistent with INTP except the "not very spontaneous" comment. Ne types are usually spontaneous, but then again if you are a young INTP, then the Ne is auxiliary and not fully developed yet.*
I was half spontaneous and half individualist building lego at young age. For the last few years I could do nothing else than sitting at home, perhaps I am not being in my dominant loop? Also, as 16-17~ ~ is when auxilary grows a lot?, I can't see any signs of NE getting developed, it's more like TE sky rocketing, as got obsessed with efficiency, started to study, caring of what I am doing, constantly arguing, getting organized, planning more than ever. Whichever function was sky rocketing then, it must have been extroverted one. 

*Okay, this response clinches INTP. It's textbook dominant Ti with inferior Fe. The reaching out to people wanting to express your emotions but having issues with it is that inferior Fe coming out. When under stress people tend to rely most on their dominant (Ti) and inferior (Fe) functions. A type like INTJ is going to use Ni and Se when under stress. They are more likely to not talk to anyone at all and just do something reckless and spontaneous (Se). The issue you describe is that normally suppressed Fe coming out in an uncontrolled way where you blame the people around you for whatever is wrong. Only INTP and ISTP have this reaction with Ti/Fe, but the previous answers point much more to Ne (INTP) than Se (ISTP). From here I can tell 100% INTP, but I'll continue on.*

It happened few times, was in a bad shape, yet I could fully control myself. This is weird, as when I seek such emotional support from my friends, my intention is to talk about the issue, and then I tell them what I will change. I don't want to hear "don't be sad, it will be alright". Anyway, usually I just quickly motivate myself, make a plan of what to do next, while walking around the room( makes it easier to think, but could indicate SE). Talking of SE, when I am not busy - angry on myself, I tend to want to go outside, do something physical, to run from the criticizing myself and constant planning, imagining...Yet even then I imagine something. This is honestly frustrating...And these imaginations are never fictional, always potential outcomes and events. I'd love to go outside now, but there is nothing I could do. 
I don't even think that feeling inferior or stressed affects me negatively, it just helps.

*pretty much all types with Fe will be more like this while Fi types won't smile so much. Fe extraverts emotions. Fi internalizes them more.*
My intp friend recently asked me why I am smiling that much, hm..Just a thought. 

*Both Te and Ti value efficiency. Creating your own problem-solving math methods involves a lot of logic and abstraction, which all NT types are best at.*
Oh, well, I am almost certain I am NT. 


*But the Si is not suppressed (since it's tertiary), so you do notice when you miss those details, unlike a type like ENTP, which has Si inferior, and misses the details and is oblivious to it (ENFP is that way too). INTP suppresses the Fe, so they will often have a lot of awkwardness and difficulties with society and social situations while the ENTP type is more adept in those environments.*
That makes sense for sure

* In general, Ni likes to contract the possibilities to what is most "likely" or "important" while Ne likes to expand the possibilities. *
That would be ni


*While the INTP likes ideas to makes sense of ideas and think about them analytically, the INTJ likes to get the 'gist' of an idea, not really analyzing the intricacies of it, but rushing to apply it to a real world problem. *
Usually I think of an idea and I don't analyze it, just think that I could use that idea some time later, as now I can't do that. 

*For the INTJ it's their inferior Se and difficulty just dealing with the physical world as it is. They are so much in their heads and into the hidden meanings behind things (Ni) that they have trouble with present, physical realities (Se). The INTJ doesn't have the emotional issues of the INTP with their inferior Fe. Interestingly, I'm INTJ and my brother is INTP, so I can really see the contrasts between the 2 types. When I'm stressed I might overeat. When he's stressed he wants to talk to people in his family. I know that's anecdotal though, but just kind of a contrast between inferior Se and inferior Fe.
*
I don't think I have emotional problems, I guess everyone reaches a point when they are emotional, and it occurs rarely to me. I would never overeat or go get drunk just because I am sad. What I do is always motivating myself and going forward.


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## eb44345 (Mar 9, 2014)

Well if you identify with INTJ better, then maybe it is that. INTJ is very imaginative too.

I made a quiz that is linked it in my signature, so you could try that.

A quick way to practically tell the difference between a type like INTP and INTJ is: How does your space around you look? How clean is it? Is it cluttered? Is it organized? For example, do you have a messy room or a messy car?

That's an easy, quick to see illustration of a tangible difference between Te and Ti. Te likes to organize its environment. I've seen this in all TJ types that I know. If a room has too much clutter in it, then it's annoying. Piles of dishes on the kitchen counter get on my nerves due to the inefficient use of space, for example. I know 2 INTPs in real life (one is my brother, the other a guy I work with). Both of them tend to "let things go" They're not exactly very organized on the outside. Ti likes to focus on internal organization, within the mind. It'll organize ideas and concepts when combined with Ne. When Ti is combined with Se, then it'll be very good at figuring out how physical things work (for STP types).


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## Kakorrhaphiophobia (Jun 6, 2015)

You seem more I. Probably INTx (INTP seems like a higher possibility)


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## Apple Pine (Nov 27, 2014)

eb44345 said:


> .


Hello again,

I have already tried that quiz, and I scored ENTJ. I think that was in the middle of something, as there were 90 questions for me, while a friend had 60? I will try it again, I'll post the results very soon. Also, are the scores saved, as there is a space for a name and age? 

I used to not care about my room being messy. Whenever I had to clean my room, I just put everything into drawers, no organization, just to make it look like clean. However I was not totally messy, but that could be influenced. Now everything is pretty organized, room is not perfectly, but decently clean. It gets on my nerves if I look at my table and it's messy, which may happen if I am working on something that got my interest, as then I focus on that one thing only. I even forget to eat sometimes, tho the feeling of hunger reminds me that sometimes. If I glace at the floor and see rubbish, I will definitely throw it off, but then I'll notice other stuff and may get obsessed with cleaning it. One more example - a fridge. My both parents are SI dominants, but it seems I am the only one who notices that food there is all over the place, some stuff is f..ing expired. 

*
When Ti is combined with Se, then it'll be very good at figuring out how physical things work (for STP types).
*
Like what physical things? There is one thing, one of my friend(esxp) constantly liked fixing his motorcycle, and I just honestly didn't care, as I don't ride them, I saw no point of learning this.



anony231 said:


> You seem more I. Probably INTx (INTP seems like a higher possibility)


Oh, yes, i definitely seem introverted. Yet even with very little social experience I can do quite well. Anyway, no point of trying to focus purely on I/E, I could be either.

*EDIT:*
Finished test, still loading, waiting for crash. If you can see results, same nickname as here.

Got entj


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## eb44345 (Mar 9, 2014)

The quiz does store the results into a database. I made it just to test connecting a site to a database and have something to store, but I don't do anything with the results.

Sometimes practically the Te and Si functions can get confused because both of them tend to be into organization of their environment (or liking it to be that way). The difference is that Te is into organizing for efficiency. Te is good at things like time management. When keeping things clean and organized, it isn't going to be perfectionist about it. It goes for functional and efficient use of space and time. Te types are usually good at planning, scheduling, figuring out step by step procedures for accomplishing a task. Si is more into organizing for organizing sake if that makes sense. They'll want things to 'look nice' It's not about efficiency for Si, it's about aesthetics. Si can be very perfectionist about organizing your environment. In the STJ types, they have both Si and Te, so those types tend to be extremely organized (unless they are stressed or something is wrong).

NTJ types use Te but not Si so they are going to be into efficiency. NTJ types will usually be the ones that accomplish tasks/goals/projects very, very quickly and efficiently. The Ni helps them focus like a laser on what is important and the Te drives for an efficient conclusion to the task. The Ne of the NTP is much different. While Ni usually looks very focused and intense, the Ne is more idiosyncratic, creative, spontaneous, and playful. You see it most in the dominant Ne types of ENTP and ENFP while auxiliary Ne types (INTP, INFP) are more serious relying most on their Fi or Ti.

So, you've narrowed it down to INTJ or ENTJ then...

A lot of people who are ENTJ will test or think of themselves as INTJ. They'll think that they are introverted but that is from confusion about what introversion and extroversion really mean. People think it means "shy" or "outgoing." Nope.

For example, the ISFJ or INFJ types are more social than the ENTJ or ENTP types. Extraverted just means that they have a dominant extraverted function. For ENTJ that's Te.

So I guess you need a good contrast between ENTJ and INTJ....

Perhaps the best way to figure it out is to figure out your 4th (inferior) function. People tend to have an extreme relationship with their 4th function. It's either all or nothing. It's not like "lack of ability" in that area. It's more like "lack of experience" in that area. A good analogy I like is a guy in a gym lifting weights. He's in there everyday working out and lifting with his right arm, while ignoring his left arm. Do that for years and years and years and how is he going to look? Massively strong right arm and puny left arm. That's how the functions work. The dominant function is that right arm. The inferior function is that left arm. Start to use it more and with experience you can get better at it.

So, ENTJ has inferior Fi while INTJ has inferior Se. The emotional temperaments of the 2 types are different. INTJ is very even keel, no big highs, no big lows. Very robotic demeanor compared to most other people. The INTJ can probably count on 1 hand the number of times that they've lost their temper and yelled at someone in their whole life. Also, the ISTJ is this way too since they share a tertiary Fi function. Se is the issue for INTJs, just dealing with the world. I remember in high school having a speech class. It was absolutely terrifying. It can also show up in wanting to be really good at something, like I remember really wanting to be a good athlete even though I was terrible at it. The Se can come out in extreme ways with reckless behavior too.

For ENTJ, the Se is tertiary so it's not suppressed like INTJ. They are decent at paying attention to what is going on around them, unlike the INTJ which may not notice that their shirt has a big stain on it. The Fi is inferior for ENTJ, so they'll usually suppress their emotions or have trouble even knowing how they feel about something. Typically, they'll be very unemotional but at times they will explode. Under stress the ENTJ will blow up and criticize those around them (using Te and Fi), while the INTJ will withdraw even more.

So look at how you are under stress for a test between ENTJ and INTJ. The ENTJ is more emotional under stress than normal. The INTJ shuts off emotionally. Ignore the stereotypes of 'E' means social. Te is not a social function, so ENTJ is not very social.

Stereotypically, ENTJs are described as career-driven people, although that may not always be true. I know 2 ENTJs in real life. One is a VP for a company and wants to be a CEO. The other one ran for a political office (but lost). INTJs would much rather be behind the scenes, preferably independently.

Perhaps you are ENTJ since you tested that way. I built that quiz based on the functions, not on the letters. The test varies depending on how people answer questions. Sometimes you'll get more questions to get at something specific. When you answered that question on how you were under stress (in the questionnaire), I figured it must be INTP because how were describing yourself as more critical of yourself, others, and more emotional. That's the response of someone with dominant/inferior T & F functions, although the specific manifestations vary from type to type. Dominant thinking or dominant feeling types are more this way, while dominant intuitive or dominant sensing types tend to be less emotional when stressed. They'll focus on gathering more information and have difficulty being decisive.

So probably ENTJ. The ENTJ is more like "ambivert" (not very social, but engages with the world) while the INTJ is the most "introverted" of all types.


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## Fern (Sep 2, 2012)

woogiefox said:


> One of my parents is ISFJ. If I was isfj, I would be the creepiest and most off the typical isfj.


For some reason, that gave me the heartiest chuckle.


I would say ENTP or ENFP is likely... but it's quite common for Enneagram 3w4's so appear logical, driven or dispassionate.

You know yourself the best though! You're the resident expert on YOU, my friend.

Also your English is pretty legit. Color me impressed.


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## Apple Pine (Nov 27, 2014)

eb44345 said:


> The quiz does store the results into a database. I made it just to test connecting a site to a database and have something to store, but I don't do anything with the results.
> 
> Sometimes practically the Te and Si functions can get confused because both of them tend to be into organization of their environment (or liking it to be that way). The difference is that Te is into organizing for efficiency. Te is good at things like time management. When keeping things clean and organized, it isn't going to be perfectionist about it. It goes for functional and efficient use of space and time. Te types are usually good at planning, scheduling, figuring out step by step procedures for accomplishing a task. Si is more into organizing for organizing sake if that makes sense. They'll want things to 'look nice' It's not about efficiency for Si, it's about aesthetics. Si can be very perfectionist about organizing your environment. In the STJ types, they have both Si and Te, so those types tend to be extremely organized (unless they are stressed or something is wrong).
> 
> ...


There are quite few highs and lows. I definitely relate to T/F dom/inferior much more than ni+se. I do not shut down emotionally for sure. Oh, a speech? It's funny thing, even thought I seem really quite introverted, I did quite well. Yea, I did not even really try to figure out whether I am I or E, just a bit. 

I figured it must be INTP because how were describing yourself as more critical of yourself
Always critical on myself.

I guess so too. By the way, a link in the first post - basically a twin, and she types herself as entj as well. 
Thanks for you help ;]


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## Apple Pine (Nov 27, 2014)

Fern said:


> For some reason, that gave me the heartiest chuckle.
> 
> 
> I would say ENTP or ENFP is likely... but it's quite common for Enneagram 3w4's so appear logical, driven or dispassionate.
> ...


Ow.

I can't disagree with that, it really makes sense. Tho, for instance, ne+si inferior loop does not seem that right to be honest. Also, I think NI makes too much sense to me. I relate to NE, but I think in the most descriptions of, let's say ni, you can find things that indicate ne+si, something about ne - yet it's common among ni as well. 
For now I think I am probably ENTJ, but I am not sure, and I never will. I guess all of us do not have a type, we just choose which makes most sense. Just by looking at the, for example, fe vs fi, we can find a lot of missconceptions. Seriously, a lot of bullshit related to mbti.


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

I'd totally believe ENTP. I see hints of Fe here and there, and no Fi, which would fit for your age.

So......... Rules. someone makes some stupid ass rule which makes no sense. Do you follow it to keep the peace? What do you do?


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## Fern (Sep 2, 2012)

woogiefox said:


> Ow.
> 
> I can't disagree with that, it really makes sense. Tho, for instance, ne+si inferior loop does not seem that right to be honest. Also, I think NI makes too much sense to me. I relate to NE, but I think in the most descriptions of, let's say ni, you can find things that indicate ne+si, something about ne - yet it's common among ni as well.
> For now I think I am probably ENTJ, but I am not sure, and I never will. I guess all of us do not have a type, we just choose which makes most sense. Just by looking at the, for example, fe vs fi, we can find a lot of missconceptions. Seriously, a lot of bullshit related to mbti.


Ahhh, this rings true to me.

I was tempted to say ENTP... But there was something distinctly Te about you that I couldn't pin down.

I was probably biased in favor of it because of the thread title to be fair XD

I'm happy for you though - best of luck on your quest of Self Knowing!


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

woogiefox said:


> Ow.
> 
> I guess all of us do not have a type, we just choose which makes most sense. J
> Seriously, a lot of bullshit related to mbti.


this sounds sooooooooooooo unlike Te to me..... This is you using your internal value system of logic to call bullshit upon published authority backed by 50 years of research.


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## Apple Pine (Nov 27, 2014)

drmiller100 said:


> I'd totally believe ENTP. I see hints of Fe here and there, and no Fi, which would fit for your age.
> 
> So......... Rules. someone makes some stupid ass rule which makes no sense. Do you follow it to keep the peace? What do you do?


I think you see ENTP in many, as you are one. That's how it works. True that there is 1hint+ of FE, but here and there? where?

The behavior depends on the situation, so I can't tell much. If I am at work temporarily, I will follow it, but I won't like it. If it is long term, sooner or later I will try to change that. Tbh, if I am not the one who makes decisions and rules, I will probably not participate in whatever it is.


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## Apple Pine (Nov 27, 2014)

drmiller100 said:


> this sounds sooooooooooooo unlike Te to me..... This is you using your internal value system of logic to call bullshit upon published authority backed by 50 years of research.


Yes, it doesn't. Like TE users accept everything as correct? Not saying it's bullshit, it just needs much more research


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

Let's say you have a question. You do some research, and you find a book, three papers, and 5 phd's who all give the same answer. Are you satisfied with the answer?

Te you will totally be happy, as you found external authority to give you an answer.

Me, I'll look HARD at the answer, and see if they are right. Often I conclude they are wrong. They are all wrong. 
sometimes if it is a big enough issue I'll go figure out where they screwed up in their thought process. Sometimes I'll even contact them and tell them where they screwed up. They never seem grateful. 

I'm Ti. If it don't make sense to me, I'll argue the whole world.


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## Greyhart (Oct 13, 2014)

ENFP, I think. Young people are hard to pinpoint. :|


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## Kakorrhaphiophobia (Jun 6, 2015)

Greyhart said:


> ENFP, I think. Young people are hard to pinpoint. :|


I saw him as an intp lol


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## Greyhart (Oct 13, 2014)

anony231 said:


> I saw him as an intp lol


I can't see Ti dom. I'd pick ESTJ over INTP.

@woogiefox you relate to this? http://personalitycafe.com/whats-my...mation-rejection-wanted-730.html#post18307458


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## Kakorrhaphiophobia (Jun 6, 2015)

Greyhart said:


> I can't see Ti dom. I'd pick ESTJ over INTP.
> 
> @woogiefox you relate to this? http://personalitycafe.com/whats-my...mation-rejection-wanted-730.html#post18307458


estj maybe, but not an extroverted feeler..


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## Apple Pine (Nov 27, 2014)

Hi



drmiller100 said:


> Let's say you have a question. You do some research, and you find a book, three papers, and 5 phd's who all give the same answer. Are you satisfied with the answer?
> 
> Te you will totally be happy, as you found external authority to give you an answer.
> 
> ...


If I have a question, the first thing I will do - think of it, whether the answer would be useful to me, or it's not worth looking for it. If I think I know the answer, I will probably go and make sure. Of course, if it doesn't make sense to me, I will think they are wrong. Yet I don't entirely trust my logic, I totally can't see myself as ti dominant, but could be auxilary...
To be honest, it rather seems that I use both thinkings on the level of auxilary. Perhaps I developed my te due to desire to achieve, being results-driven? Yet, perhaps I could have developed ti as well?




Greyhart said:


> ENFP, I think. Young people are hard to pinpoint. :|


ne+te, inferior si, makes sense. 



Greyhart said:


> I can't see Ti dom. I'd pick ESTJ over INTP.


I can't either. Si user? I highly doubt that. I grew up in si dom family, we have never been anything alike: they are organizing stuff even when it's not needed, rely on what they've experienced, can't think of better ways of doing things, as they are very security-oriented. use methods that were proven right. Also, I spent some time reading about NI OR SI, and I must say I highly relate to ni, and almost none to si. I just need si sometimes to make a decision, for example in a shop, but I just stand and can't decide as I am unaware of how to use SI. Also, I barely care what I eat, I usually forget that I have to. SI users basically organize just for the sake of it, and I do it only if it's worth doing that. Finally, si users have sharp memory, and mine is terrible, as whatever I can remember is very no-detail. 
In contrast, what sometimes occurs while watching music video is that I realize it's similar to something I have already heard, sometimes it's weird. Next, I am more of security focused than risk taker, but that's more of si > se. 

@woogiefox you relate to this? http://personalitycafe.com/whats-my...mation-rejection-wanted-730.html#post18307458

Yes, I do. Yet, the code, and questions...Well, I would focus on the potential first, not on whether he likes that or not. 


One more thing. I could possible have under developed auxilary, and perhaps tertiary developed instead? I read about the possible function skip somewhere, long time ago..Hm? Maybe ni ti fe se? 

I am pretty sure that I am aware of one of intuitive functions, as I constantly imagining what could be, I basically live in the future, and sometimes past when needed. Yet, I think that would be NI. I can't generate many solutions to a problem, if a dominant NE could generate 8, I would generate 4, choose 1 and think about it. I tend to focus on one thing. I don't really seek to learn as much things as possible, I take only what seems useful to me, and get more in depth. I highly enjoyed history in high school, but I did not care about the dates at all, I just usually quickly rushed through the text, even twice or more if it was interesting. Yet I stopped liking it at some point, as we started learning about 1900+ years, I got overwhelmed with many facts. More facts - less story telling, little room for thinking and imagining. At the last years of school, I was bored and terrible at history, got bad grades, as basically tests - some question, and choose which of 4 facts is correct. I always used crossing out method, think about the whole situation of that year, and try to cross out the facts that do not make sense. Too bad, it rarely helped, as for the most part it was like: question, a - black, b - yellow, c - red, d - blue. 

Weird thing is that I am struggling with explaining things that I know, like te vs ti. If someone shows me 10 sentences, and ask me to spot which describe te, and which ti - I would easily get it right. Yet, it would be quite hard for me to generate 10 sentences. Yet, if the question would be something like why there are many people in India, even thought I never thought of why it could be so, I would easily generate an answer, explanations followed by arguments. This, to me, seems like thinking function overshadowed by intuitive function.



anony231 said:


> estj maybe, but not an extroverted feeler..


I am pretty sure that I don't display enough FE, or absolutely zero FI, to make an assumption that I am definitely FE user. 

Between FE and FI:
FE - 20% of things definitely make sense, and 80% TOTALLY NOT ME, basically opposite.
FI - 20% Makes sense, 80% I don't know?

Fe are always seen as helpful people, and it seems I am such. Having said that, it seems to me I help only because I apply my high standards to others, and I am upset that they have no competence, ambitions. Basically I want them to adapt to my values. If someone's doing something I would never do, I instantly judge him as an idiot, and want him to follow my values and stop being an idiot, probably either trying to be "different" by weird behavior, or trying to adapt to society. He should come to me, and ask me what should he do, as following the society values would only let him to have an average job, and have no way of impressing other people. We have 1 life, not trying to get the best out of it, just live in the same routine for many many years sounds boring. 

Even though I relate to fe, I would say that I am FI user.

That were just random thoughts, looking forward for questions! Thanks


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

woogiefox said:


> Hi
> 
> 
> If I have a question, the first thing I will do - think of it, whether the answer would be useful to me, or it's not worth looking for it. If I think I know the answer, I will probably go and make sure. Of course, if it doesn't make sense to me, I will think they are wrong. Yet I don't entirely trust my logic, I totally can't see myself as ti dominant, but could be auxilary...
> ...


don't jump to any conclusions by boxing yourself into a category........ smiles...........

This is about the most random Ne paragraph I have ever come across, including my own shit.

Based on this, i'd believe ENFP - Ne, Fi, and Te.


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## Apple Pine (Nov 27, 2014)

drmiller100 said:


> don't jump to any conclusions by boxing yourself into a category........ smiles...........
> 
> This is about the most random Ne paragraph I have ever come across, including my own shit.
> 
> Based on this, i'd believe ENFP - Ne, Fi, and Te.


Yea, a bit random :3
I doubt any enfp would spend whole day doing maths, or be stubborn and do not give up on a problem for several hours, until he magically convinces himself that there must be a mistake in an exercise. When my friend feels upset, I have no idea what to say, try to motivate(as what else), and find out why he is upset, then focus on the issue and try to solve it. I get stressed when I need to show emotions, so it's always awkward. Even giving a gift is awkward, I stress out. Also I am bad at faking smiles, or expressions, not too good at manipulating, hate asking for help, but that's probably fi > fe / weak fe.


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## Greyhart (Oct 13, 2014)

woogiefox said:


> Hi
> 
> 
> If I have a question, the first thing I will do - think of it, whether the answer would be useful to me, or it's not worth looking for it. If I think I know the answer, I will probably go and make sure. Of course, if it doesn't make sense to me, I will think they are wrong. Yet I don't entirely trust my logic, I totally can't see myself as ti dominant, but could be auxilary...
> ...


Fi and Te user. If you are sure about not ESTJ I don't think anything but ENFP makes sense.

Fe tertiary isn't so much about helping people (that too though) but a lot about loving to get external ego stroking.

Anyway what you wrote there seem distinctly like Fi user imo.

P.S. these posts are from fi doms but hey maybe help you up 1 2 3


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## Apple Pine (Nov 27, 2014)

Greyhart said:


> Fi and Te user. If you are sure about not ESTJ I don't think anything but ENFP makes sense.
> 
> Fe tertiary isn't so much about helping people (that too though) but a lot about loving to get external ego stroking.
> 
> ...


That would be FI, but definitely not dominant, absolutely no chance that I am IXFP. I think that we can cross out FE types, due to relating to FI much more, and the fact that in 99% cases I critique rather than complementing.
I know that ENFP makes sense, but I think I evoke and try to use FI quite rarely, and it doesn't go that well. Also, I am pretty sure I am turbulent, yet I am immature with my FI, which doesn't make sense...


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## Kakorrhaphiophobia (Jun 6, 2015)

woogiefox said:


> That would be FI, but definitely not dominant, absolutely no chance that I am IXFP. I think that we can cross out FE types, due to relating to FI much more, and the fact that in 99% cases I critique rather than complementing.
> I know that ENFP makes sense, but I think I evoke and try to use FI quite rarely, and it doesn't go that well. Also, I am pretty sure I am turbulent, yet I am immature with my FI, which doesn't make sense...


 @Greyhart After reading all these posts, I believe that he's an ENTJ now. 
You seem very Te and your Fi is too inferior to be aux..:joyous:


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## Apple Pine (Nov 27, 2014)

anony231 said:


> @Greyhart After reading all these posts, I believe that he's an ENTJ now.
> You seem very Te and your Fi is too inferior to be aux..:joyous:


Probably, but it's not clear yet, and I will do more research to make sure. 

If anyone has any questions that might lead to realizing something important, leave a comment!


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## Greyhart (Oct 13, 2014)

woogiefox said:


> Probably, but it's not clear yet, and I will do more research to make sure.
> 
> If anyone has any questions that might lead to realizing something important, leave a comment!


Well, we just talked about just a little about Se in NJs here.



> Quote Originally Posted by Oswin
> @angelcat you said that buying particular brand names and not liking knock-offs or such was high Se. Higher than tert?
> Quote Originally Posted by angelcat
> Se ... anywhere in the function stack. Expensive taste. SPs or NJs, that's the same.
> Tragedy of my ENTJ cousin. I go "You could cut here and here, buy cheaper edition of this and that. And you don't really need full expensive collection of that." and for him it's like if you buy something buy the best/most complete/most rare. Same with presents. I understand how with ENTJs they get "money bug" stereotype. That Te-Fi in combo with Se grand gestures seems to drive for "love you a lot"=expensive present.


And then this, this and this.


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## eb44345 (Mar 9, 2014)

I still think you are ENTJ.

Your post about Ni vs Ne is strongly pointing to Ni. Being INTJ, I'm very familiar with Ni, and Ni just isn't very good at brainstorming, coming up with new, random ideas. It's good at taking a lot of existing data, spotting what is important, what isn't important, and blending multiple concepts together cohesively. People with high Ni tend to obsess on a topic with a very long attention span. Ne is more known for a shorter attention span, bouncing from idea to idea. It likes to start with a single concept, then expand it to include more information.

To summarize:
Ne is from one to many.
Ni is from many to one.

Additionally, another way to look at these functions is to always see them in function pairs. Ni is paired with Se. Ne is with Si. Plus Te/Fi and Ti/Fe.

Think of a continuum with Ni on one end and Se on the other end.

At the Ni end, there are the INTJ and INFJ types. A little further along moving towards the Se side of the continuum are the ENFJ and ENTJ types. Then, it's the ISTP and ISFP types. Then, on the Se side it's ESTP and ESFP. You can do the same thing for the other functions.

So, if you can understand Se, then Ni is really the opposite of Se. They are complementary and opposites. Se sees what is obvious and right in front of you in extreme detail right in the moment. Ni looks at the hidden meanings behind the data, in a foggy haze, and how this impacts things over a long period of time. Se is aggressive. Ni is passive. Se likes things to be immediate. Ni likes to be patient and contemplative. Se is good at seeing the details. Ni overlooks details and looks at the larger picture.

So, there's really a complementary tension between Ni and Se. A dominant Ni type like INFJ or INTJ will focus on Ni. ESFP and ESTP will focus on Se. ISFP, ISTP, ENTJ, and ENFJ will use both Ni and Se, balancing the 2 better.

The same tension exists for other functions. With Ne and Si it's more like trusting known facts (Si) vs novelty (Ne). Si likes to know what is going on. Ne likes experimenting. Si likes stability. Ne likes spontaneity. Si is slow and methodical. Ne is quick and random.

Once someone really understands the functions and not just things on a superficial level, then it's easy to see the big differences between the types. It can be harder online to tell from a questionnaire, but if I know someone in person then I can tell what type they are.


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## Apple Pine (Nov 27, 2014)

Greyhart said:


> Well, we just talked about just a little about Se in NJs here.
> 
> 
> 
> And then this, this and this.


Hi. Thanks for the links!

About the hostel, and a hotel. If I am going to travel, I will definitely be busy there, +- doing what I planned, so I would take a hostel(yet only if I could be there alone, with friends), as all I will need is a place to sleep. Why take a hotel? I would take it tho, if my financial situation was 100x better. Also, that would be painful to return to real home from the hotel lol. 

Presents? Just anything useful please, no need love letters and useless statues etc. 

Wouldn't go camping. However that's what I say NOW. I am currently too focused on getting to university, figuring out my type, learning what I need, taking care of my looks(worth mentioning that I had not really cared about that until 15-16?) etc. I think here applies work, then play strategy...Anyway, I guess as I came off my shadow like only 3 years ago, I just need to do too much stuff, getting over laziness which developed due gaming, being withdrawn and shutdown, so I don't feel like having time for physical activities which I honestly think of sometimes "Wish...I could". 

"The trip won't be exactly as you planned, but that's the fun!" 100% agreed. 
Liked that part with iPhone. People buy them, as that means high social status. The worst thing is that some of them DON'T EVEN USE THAT PHONES. Also, they don't even consider before buying something, that's so FE. 

Alright, about the money:

I am definitely good with money, and I think before buying. I used to be poor(in usa standards that would be "+-homeless"), just recently started earning money, as an opportunity came around. Soooo, I recently bought a phone for only 299 to change my old 2009 phone with symbian, as I felt like 600 ones are just tiny better, OR EVEN WORSE, why would I waste another 300? It's not like that just with phones, it's same with food, clothes, computers etc.
Basically I buy what looks best/price to me, with a bit leaning towards to quality, and having assessed my current financial situation. I don't buy the cheapest stuff, and I don't buy the most expensive either. One more thing, I currently do not own a car and I doubt I will own one soon, as I don't feel like buying a cheap car. Why? Travelling by bus etc is good enough, and even cheaper. Also, I am probably the one male around who hasn't taken a license yet, as I don't feel like I need it now, I won't take it just to "fit in".



eb44345 said:


> I still think you are ENTJ.
> 
> Your post about Ni vs Ne is strongly pointing to Ni. Being INTJ, I'm very familiar with Ni, and Ni just isn't very good at brainstorming, coming up with new, random ideas. It's good at taking a lot of existing data, spotting what is important, what isn't important, and blending multiple concepts together cohesively. People with high Ni tend to obsess on a topic with a very long attention span. Ne is more known for a shorter attention span, bouncing from idea to idea. It likes to start with a single concept, then expand it to include more information.
> 
> ...


NE/NI...I relate to ne, as my messages are kinda messy sometimes, random, but I am always aware of it. Making my paragraphs perfect would take too much time, as English has a big role here too. 
Ni is from many to one. YEP

Yea, I don't really bounce from idea to idea, but I have always had a tendency to do this:
Not sure how to say that, but eh, most would probably prefer A:
*A* Trying to figure out my type, learning what I need, taking care of my looks etc.
*B* Tying to figure out my type, learning what I need, taking care of my looks*(worth mentioning that I had not really cared about that until 15-16?)* etc.
My sentences are a bit too long sometimes[ connecting ideas ]. 

Is it more of ni or ne?

Proably not NE, as I am pretty certain on being FI user now, so that kinda leaves only one NE type possible [enfp]. Also, it means I am not ti user, yet I am sure I had a lot of experiences of possibly using ti...but when I think about it, that could simply be enne 3 traits + te/ni, not sure. 
_looks at the hidden meanings behind the data, in a foggy haze, and how this impacts things over a long period of time_
Yes, pretty much always. I guess a good example of this is they way I described pictures. I thought of what's possible there, without on stop on thinking of how it's going to affect me.

Just one extra thought:

If I am in a group, and its moderator is stupid, does something stupid, like he kicks someone he(only he) doesn't like - I won't hesitate to criticize him. Of course, it would seem like giving him an advice, but for real it's more of showing to group members that their "leader" has no idea what he's doing, and perhaps some day, if mod gets crazy, I will create a group and get the most of the members invited. Always intentions, always.


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## Greyhart (Oct 13, 2014)

Did I link you any Ne dom posts? I think I didn't. Bungle of links here. Including socionics inferior Si. Dom Si, Ne, Fi and Ti. Probably just check how you feel about Ne.

Alternatively, http://personalitycafe.com/articles/25205-dominant-tertiary-loops-common-personality-disorders.html <- examples of unhealthy tendencies in types. You can check which one of the loops you could see yourself falling into.

Inferior Fi

* *




Fi as suggestive function in LSE (ESTj; Stirlitz) and LIE (ENTj; Jack London)

People of these types strive to find themselves in environment where they like everything and everyone. If they don't like something or someone - this is a reason to change their environment. Very receptive when he is told how someone else should be treated. When he does not know how to treat someone, feels uncomfortable - needs those who can explain this to him. Looks for a place where he would be allowed to communicate his assessments and attitudes. If this is allowed - the place seems welcoming to him. In this regard, he is very mistrustful and and often tries to rely on some objective data. Very suggestible by the valuations of those who are close to him, and through this he can be taken advantage of. Having found himself in some new place, if there is such a person there, he will try to listen to his/her evaluations and then adopt them as his own. The best place for him is where he has a circle of close and trusted friends. He likes situations where he knows or can accurately assess how everything should be treated and valuated: "this is white and that is black." If he lacks such clarity, he may feel uncomfortable. It is very painful for him to part with his groups of friends or team where he worked - memories will bring him to bouts of nostalgia. It is very hurtful for him to lose a friend, a comrade, a colleague, whom he has known for a long while. Same applies to his personal life. Sometimes he might deliberately provoke a scandal and use it as a way to express his attitude towards someone or something, since another method of delivery would require the approval of the group or collective, but this way he can freely give his assessment as is. And then move on to his real valuations, which now he can safely speak about. If he has feelings for someone, he can turn a blind eye to everything, as he is very suggestible by love - it makes him blind. It's a feeling that warms him contrary to all common sense. In general, under such circumstances, the position of this function results in a very dangerous situation because such a person can be easily 'programmed' to any feelings for anyone (fall prey to sycophancy). Then you can just push him to take action and no hypnosis is even necessary - he will act believing it is out of his best intentions.


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## Apple Pine (Nov 27, 2014)

Greyhart said:


> Did I link you any Ne dom posts? I think I didn't. Bungle of links here. Including socionics inferior Si. Dom Si, Ne, Fi and Ti. Probably just check how you feel about Ne.
> 
> Alternatively, http://personalitycafe.com/articles/25205-dominant-tertiary-loops-common-personality-disorders.html <- examples of unhealthy tendencies in types. You can check which one of the loops you could see yourself falling into.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the comment, it was very helpful. I'll leave some comments:

*For example, an ENFP friend recently told me about a room in France preserved from WWI after the death of a couple's son. They, when they sold the house, insisted a clause be inserted that nothing be changed about that room -- it was to be immortalized forever in memory of their son. They never cleaned it out. Never moved anything. I sat there, staring at her, as she waxed poetic about the incredible, profound history of that room, and how she hoped that if were ever (tragically) dismantled that they would move the entire thing -- including the wall boards -- into a museum.*
Interesting. Not me at all. I remember going to trips with a class to historical places... I totally did not care, and I avoided taking pictures with others there, as I didn't see anything special - that's just something old, and useless now. Ah, yes, and some were just obsessed with this. However I enjoyed history at school at first when there were little facts and you could imagine the full picture of what was happening. Also, the fact is that I care to look at the old pictures of mine, or remember the past, only when I feel like it can somehow help me. Tho, talking of the past, all I can basically remember is how it looked like, and whether I liked it or not, what I did, and the memories are very short. Terrible at remembering the taste of the things, sometimes I can't choose between 2 products I have already tried, as I can't really tell which one tastes better...Why I think it's important? INTP got confused when I told about that situation, and he has tertiary SI. 
_Completely ruling out SJ, that's completely not me. _

*INxP
Many of the concerns of people center around issues of health, usefulness / harmfulness, reliability, and...(SPOILER, NUMBER 1).*
Terribly, bloody, awfully, incredibly, almost opposite to me ... Talking of health, I kinda, logically, care of it as it may affect my looks.
_Ruling out tertiary SI, aka INXP_

*ENxP
These sociotypes always move in the direction of places where there is physical comfort.. *
The beginning is quite true, but I'm pretty sure it's due other reasons. 
If they have a sweet tooth, will consume sweets by kilograms <> I think it's a terrible example, as everyone relates to it to my mind. 

No. Yet, I won't rule inferior SI, as hey, it's inferior.

*Ne is something like 1 2 3 4 (joke but kind true too)*
The first is a good example of NE...Random and dumb
The second picture - I would say the same.
The third - wouldn't say so, as I could be the only one who understands that lol. Or I didn't get it, my bad.?

Really, I don't relate to massive NE dom randomness. My jokes, basically everything tbh, are always with some meaning, not just random and a lot of stuff thrown to someone. Even when it seems like a completely random joke, I actually mean something by saying that, seems like I constantly challenging people. 
Due to that, preferring FI over FE, not si, te over ti, 
_Ruling out ENTP_.

*http://personalitycafe.com/whats-my...xp-its-just-one-letter-shouldnt-too-hard.html
*
The way he described picture...We only relate with the idea of thinking how and why the picture was taken. As I've already ruled out INTP, it's a bit frustrating to continue reading...Read most tho. Who likes re-reading books? But if you were lazy enough to try to understand reading for the first time, I guess you have to, if you need to. I think there is important fact I have to point out:

He says
*However, I hate re-reading books for college, even though I was enthusiastic the first time I read them.*
I would re-read it if I liked it. I have watched 5 seasons of game of thrones twice, so I can understand it better, and I liked it. 
*I get drained by prolonged, useless socializing.*
I wouldn't even go to do that. Ah, yes, ixtp, fe user, got it. 

*This could be useful Function Clarifier Test but is not certain.*
Ahh, arkigos, the mbti genius. 
1. Not really.
2. Makes sense.
3. Makes sense
4. I don't think so. That seems similar to the second one, but this one doesn't make sense to me. Even when I am imagining something, I don't feel like I disconnect, there is little fiction in my fantasies to be honest, if at all. Fiction to me - what could never be real.
5. Partly yes. Other part seems confusing, so I don't know. 
6. Makes sense, but Call me a dreamer if you like, but this world is only what you’ve made it. Let’s make a better one.I disagree. The world is the world, you can imagine how it could be in fantasies, but why not imagining what could potentially happen some day to this world? Perhaps how could you change it? Even though I imagine things in my head a lot, I would call myself more of a realist. 
7. i kinda relate to the end only. 
8. Makes sense. *Experience is the only thing worth anything sometimes* logically yes, as future success to experience. *My attention span is not exactly legendary.*That's frustrating. *and I don’t mean taking drugs* yes, would never do that, never. *I mean BEING THERE. Being there with the people you love, doing the things you love* Not that much...


I liked it. The fourth was confusing tho, I couldn't even guess which function that could be...That points to ntj / sfp functions? not surprised to be honest. 

Do you really relate to it, grey? *In active defense, he will try to win the good attitude of this person at any cost, in passive defense, on the contrary, may admit to behaving poorly. * I wouldn't do that. *Often they will think ten times before saying anything, as if it is an important task.* Ugh, sometimes? 

Alright,
Seems like not ISTJ, ESTJ, ISFJ, ESFJ, ENTP, INTP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ, ESTP, ISFP, ESFP.

So it must be one of these? ENFP, INTJ, ENTJ, ISTP. In the order of most likely to least likely I think, currently it would look like this:

entj>intj>enfp>istp.


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## Greyhart (Oct 13, 2014)

> (about inf Si)The beginning is quite true, but I'm pretty sure it's due other reasons.
> If they have a sweet tooth, will consume sweets by kilograms <> I think it's a terrible example, as everyone relates to it to my mind.


I ate 2 kg of cherries yesterday. And entire huge bowl of candies the day before. I am allergic. I now have rash on my hands. Totally worth it. Today ate honey and hot chocolate. xD Honestly, not sure about this one. For me it's a lot "can't control desire for pleasant sensations", avoiding discomfort like a plague, getting used to comfort, hypochondria and yes easily suggestible about the state of my health, stuff like "I didn't eat today, I didn't notice I was hungry". Or that I completely zone out of my surrounding, especially noises even loud and insistent like washing machine's alarm.

The fact that you relate to point 8 *at all* points towards high sensing. Personally I relate to 6>>7 and the rest is really not me. 8 especially. 4th function is Si.

So, ESFP (I think possibility of ISFP is very low) or ENTJ. I don't see your as a Ti user out of all of this.



> However, I hate re-reading books for college, even though I was enthusiastic the first time I read them.
> I would re-read it if I liked it. I have watched 5 seasons of game of thrones twice, so I can understand it better, and I liked it.
> I get drained by prolonged, useless socializing.
> I wouldn't even go to do that. Ah, yes, ixtp, fe user, got it.


Generic tbh, many would say it. Doesn't point towards specific function.



> Do you really relate to it, grey?* In active defense, he will try to win the good attitude of this person at any cost, in passive defense, on the contrary, may admit to behaving poorly.* I wouldn't do that. Often they will think ten times before saying anything, as if it is an important task. Ugh, sometimes?


Yes. I like being liked, I like getting positive attention. Positive reinforcement is a thing for me.

I notice someone disliking me for no reason (there's rarely any reason, I'm chill and don't care about any topics enough to start a war over them) I get frustrated and can try to make them change their disposition. My BFF's boyfriend for example, disliked me from the start. It's been 5 years, I can't confront him directly due to fear of alienating my friend. Boy, does it frustrates me. I've tried being super fun, super chill, super polite, bastards still looks at me like I am an Ewok. That being said, he is ISTJ. I'm starting to suspect that I am misinterpreting his neutral face for dislike. :| I rarely get in situations where I am disliked. Possibly because I am often too self-centered to notice attitudes unless they are conveyed to me in a tangible ways.

If I've offended someone I will try to mend it. If I offended someone on a purpose because they attacked me or my close ones, I will continue attacking them. This is more of enneagram related, I think.

"At any cost" is a bit of overdo. I often react to it by deciding "You don't like me? Well, fuck you! I hate you too!" _but_ if I'll _have to_ continue interacting with this person I may change my mind and try win them back at some point since I don't like being constantly bombarded by negative attitude.



> Often they will think ten times before saying anything, as if it is an important task.


Explaining my thought process to others isn't completely natural. I have to think about the way I am phrasing it. Although I am more prone to explaining it a few times in a row but with a different perspective or framing. Usually if the first try looked like most of it went past my audience, I'll receive feedback, consider it and shift my explanation in accordance.
_________________

Not sure what to say about Ne. 2 and 3 are obviously written by me. I wouldn't call the way I live "daydreaming" since I don't really sit there and "dream" but actual experiences or content matter little in comparison to ideas that I can receive from them. I live by constantly getting ideas and chasing them. As I said Ne dom for me is Universe of ideas overlaying reality. Ideas are more important that what actually is.



> If I am in a group, and its moderator is stupid, does something stupid, like he kicks someone he(only he) doesn't like - I won't hesitate to criticize him. Of course, it would seem like giving him an advice, but for real it's more of showing to group members that their "leader" has no idea what he's doing, and perhaps some day, if mod gets crazy, I will create a group and get the most of the members invited. Always intentions, always.


I avoid groups that have social structure of that sort. I don't like telling other what to do and I hate being told what do myself.

I think you are a TJ by this point. Doesn't seem like you value Ne enough for it to be your dominant.


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## Apple Pine (Nov 27, 2014)

*[I ate 2 kg of cherries yesterday. And entire huge bowl of candies the day before. I am allergic. I now have rash on my hands. Totally worth it.*
Control your si!  it will get you killed. 

*The fact that you relate to point 8 at all points towards high sensing. Personally I relate to 6>>7 and the rest is really not me. 8 especially. 4th function is Si.*
I am sure that I am not a sensor, as just recently it started to seem that sometimes I possess some S traits. No chance on SE dom, isfp FI dom...ISTP? fe, ti, so I highly doubt that. 

*I notice someone disliking me for no reason (there's rarely any reason, I'm chill and don't care about any topics enough to start a war over them) I get frustrated and can try to make them change their disposition. My BFF's boyfriend for example, disliked me from the start. It's been 5 years, I can't confront him directly due to fear of alienating my friend. Boy, does it frustrates me. I've tried being super fun, super chill, super polite, bastards still looks at me like I am an Ewok. That being said, he is ISTJ. I'm starting to suspect that I am misinterpreting his neutral face for dislike. :| I rarely get in situations where I am disliked. Possibly because I am often too self-centered to notice attitudes unless they are conveyed to me in a tangible ways.*
Oww..If someones hates me - cool, there are more people. I'll try something, if I feel like that person would be very useful to me, of course. 

*I avoid groups that have social structure of that sort. I don't like telling other what to do and I hate being told what do myself.*
I hate being told, and I always tell others what to do :x

*I think you are a TJ by this point. Doesn't seem like you value Ne enough for it to be your dominant.*
Ya, and as I kinda have no idea how SI works, I guess we could narrow down it to NTJ. I'll focus on inferior now, to cross one more out.


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## Greyhart (Oct 13, 2014)

woogiefox said:


> *[I ate 2 kg of cherries yesterday. And entire huge bowl of candies the day before. I am allergic. I now have rash on my hands. Totally worth it.*
> Control your si!  it will get you killed.


Nah. I just ate cherries entire day. I thought I'd get "hi" from my liver and pancreas but nope, nothing hurt. Guess there's truth to that raw diet thing.



> Oww..If someones hates me - cool, there are more people. I'll try something, if I feel like that person would be very useful to me, of course.


Being bombarded with negativity kills my fun. So the way I see it I can either fix it or abandon the ship and look for the one with positive vibes. Life is too short to deal with negative people. I'm very protective towards "fun" environment I've created and if someone threatens it I won't tolerate it.

I've linked this before http://personalitycafe.com/articles/25205-dominant-tertiary-loops-common-personality-disorders.html Unhealthy tendencies in types. Ni-Fi will be different from Te-Se. Though, perhaps you are too young to experience "pulls" like these.



> I hate being told, and I always tell others what to do :x


I thought about quadras in socionics regarding social behavior.

Te, Fi, Se, Ni 

* *





Groups made up of primarily Gamma types tend to be small in size; perhaps 6 at most. Laughter and very obvious displays of emotion are subdued, instead, there is a lot of smiling, amusement with ironic and witty remarks or, when serious subjects or not very happy personal experiences are discussed, a serious demeanour. Even such small groups tend to split into smaller ones; perhaps 3 is the ideal "group" size for Gammas.

Group discussions are focused on exchange of information and ideas on subjects of mutual interest, discussing and planning activities together, or on personal experiences. The latter are usually discussed not with the purpose of making people laugh or to boast one's position but to get an insight into the lessons to be drawn from such experiences.

Gammas usually dislike being "drawn" into larger groups where loud exchanges of jokes and quick shifting of one subject to the other are the norm, as in a large dinner table in an informal environment, especially if the group is also somewhat "artificial" as in work colleagues or business partners where personal relationships weren't really spontaneously formed. In such situations, Gammas will tend to focus on the persons sitting immediately near them in order to engage them in more individual conversations or will tend to remain mostly silent, not really participating in the group atmosphere, making the impression of being "introverts" in the everyday meaning of the term.

Once a group is formed, it tends to be wary for some time of "newcomers", being neither exclusive nor inclusive on purpose. Conversations often focus on trends regarding material and yet personal issues, such as career prospects and developments, success or failure of financial investments and enterprises, and the future prospects of romantic relationships, as well as the reasons for the failure of past ones. In more light-hearted moments, such talks get a "bawdy" flavor with some slight teasing.

Other subjects tend to focus on internal work politics from the point of view of how it jeopardizes general efficiency, the nonsense of bureaucracy, and how to be better than competitors.




Te, Fi, Ne, Si

* *




Groups made up of primarily Delta types tend to be focused on working on projects, enjoying physical recreation, or finding out interesting things about each other. Laughter is usually subdued and brief; instead, people smile a lot and try to be witty and welcoming. Groups need to be focused on some specific productive activity or topic of discussion, or else they fall apart. In Delta groups, there is a lot of splintering and decentralization. This allows for more focused and productive interaction with only those who share your particular interests or sentiments. People jump from small group to small group easily to keep up their interest level. No one demands that the entire group listen to one person or that everyone do the same thing. Delta Quadra types believe that if everyone just pursues their own interests and makes some accommodations for others, the group will be better off anyway. Delta Quadra types do not focusing on building group identity or unity of purpose, but prefer for the group to remain splintered and decentralized.




Just in case TPs and FJs

* *





Ne, Ti, Fe, Si
Inclination for comfortable and pleasant group atmosphere, in the emotional, sensorial, and intellectual aspects. An ideal Alpha group situation is the exchange of light-hearted jokes while discussing imaginative ideas, movies, or sometimes sports, all while enjoying pleasant food and drink. Narrating personal experiences usually takes the form of telling a joke; funny personal experiences are preferred over "serious" ones. The exchange of sober concrete details are avoided. If the group is playing a game together, the fun and jokes that go along with it are at least as important as the game itself. They avoid generating "heavy" moments; any dramatic expressions are limited in time, most often in service of a joke. Alphas are also perhaps the most likely types to participate in group use of mind-altering substances.

Alpha discussions tend to go off on tangents, in whatever direction seems most interesting or funny at the moment. Unusual personal observations are common, resulting from the analysis of the idiosyncrasies or inconsistencies of everyday life. If many in the group share the same observations, they are likely to express their agreement emphatically, so as to create a kind of "mental harmony" which enhances the group dynamic. If a new problem is encountered, it is expanded and developed in as many ways as possible, until some kind of satisfactory conclusion is reached.

Alphas make no distinction between "insiders" and "outsiders", easily drawing people into a conversation once it has begun — though they tend to just as easily withdraw if the person is not receptive. Likewise, they prefer to have the same behavior at work as at play; they find formal speech and dress to be pretentious, unnecessarily limiting, and even ridiculous. Alphas dislike the idea that there is something going on "behind the scenes", preferring to keep things (especially personal motivations) as open and straightforward as possible. 

Ti, Fe, Ni, Se
Preference for larger groups where participation is "collective" rather than focused on individuals for any length of time, but with likely "domination" by more assertive individuals. This means that beta groups discuss topics that everyone could contribute to. Frequent unexplained inside jokes are considered impolite because they exclude other people. Jokes are loud and general, often about stereotypes. Betas attempt to draw others into the group activity: for example, in a situation where there are "group rituals" going on (as in drinking, dancing, etc), there is good-natured pressure on "outsiders" to also participate in them, with a sort of puzzled dismay if they prefer not to. They also try to draw attention to people who might otherwise feel left out - usually this is done with general jokes directed at individuals. In more subdued moments, discussion of ideas involving present trends and political implications, with strong views voiced. Personal experiences tend to be discussed from the point of view of their external impact rather than the individual's own personal view of them.

When larger social events are organized by Betas (such as parties, receptions etc), they show an inclination to promote activities that will lead to the guests involved as a single group, such as games and shows; dislike for the "quieter" form of events where guests tend to quietly form smaller groups in more intimate atmospheres, which Betas tend to see as boring.

For Betas atmosphere is more important than specific activity or topic. Groups of betas spend time together to entertain each other. They exchange fun (and often loud) stories to feed the atmosphere, so that the group energy won't run out. People talk fast and they often add comments to other people's stories if they feel that the pace is slowing down. When someone starts to talk, he takes on the obligation to entertain for the duration of the monologue and, in a friendly group, other people only interrupt to try and help him keep control of the atmosphere.

Talking about personal matters in a group is not something that Betas generally do. It's viewed almost as treachery when something that was told in a one-on-one conversation is retold in front of a group, or when someone criticizes another person's traits in front of the group. Betas believe such things should be told in private and should not be used to embarrass or belittle a friend.

Betas also don't like it when people tell long, slow stories. Betas try to be polite and listen to the story, and they will forgive you if it was boring for them, but if someone does it too often they might not be invited back. Betas restrict long-winded stories to one-on-one conversations. However, IEIs are more likely to adjust to the slower stories because they are very flexible conversationalists.


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## Apple Pine (Nov 27, 2014)

* Dominant-Tertiary Loops and Common Personality Disorders*
I do not relate to any at all, just intj and infj A BIT, only a bit.

*Groups made up of primarily Gamma types tend to be small in size; perhaps 6 at most. Laughter and very obvious displays of emotion are subdued, instead, there is a lot of smiling, amusement with ironic and witty remarks or, when serious subjects or not very happy personal experiences are discussed, a serious demeanour. Even such small groups tend to split into smaller ones; perhaps 3 is the ideal "group" size for Gammas.*
2-4 to me
*Gammas usually dislike being "drawn" into larger groups where loud exchanges of jokes and quick shifting of one subject to the other are the norm, as in a large dinner table in an informal environment, especially if the group is also somewhat "artificial" as in work colleagues or business partners where personal relationships weren't really spontaneously formed. In such situations, Gammas will tend to focus on the persons sitting immediately near them in order to engage them in more individual conversations or will tend to remain mostly silent, not really participating in the group atmosphere, making the impression of being "introverts" in the everyday meaning of the term.*
10/10
Overall, I highly relate to "gammas". 

*Groups made up of primarily Delta types tend to be focused on working on projects, enjoying physical recreation, or finding out interesting things about each other.*
I am definitely more of individualist on projects, as I am too stubborn sometimes, I'll think my vision is the best, and I'll refuse to do in the less efficient, worse way, even if I am with 9 people in the group. Yet, perhaps I just never had witty project partners. Find out interesting things about each other? No, whatever. You learn facts just by talking with others, as they talk and you form an overall image of their life and thinking process. 
*People jump from small group to small group easily to keep up their interest level.*
Less groups -> less people -> you know more about them -> less rambling.
No to Delta.

*Inclination for comfortable and pleasant group atmosphere, in the emotional, sensorial, and intellectual aspects. An ideal Alpha group situation is the exchange of light-hearted jokes while discussing imaginative ideas, movies, or sometimes sports, all while enjoying pleasant food and drink.*
Why not? Sounds good enough.
*Narrating personal experiences usually takes the form of telling a joke; funny personal experiences are preferred over "serious" ones*
Opposite. If you discuss serious experiences, at least you can help each other somehow. Meanwhile discussing funny experiences doesn't relate to me at all, totally. 
*They avoid generating "heavy" moments; any dramatic expressions are limited in time, most often in service of a joke.*
No, if there is a problem - it should be solved, not assumed as a joke. Btw, group members could cry, I would still focus on a problem. Not saying I wouldn't care about them, just problem > emotions, as problems -> wrong emotions.
*Likewise, they prefer to have the same behavior at work as at play; they find formal speech and dress to be pretentious, unnecessarily limiting, and even ridiculous. *
+- agreed
Little relation to this

*This means that beta groups discuss topics that everyone could contribute to.*
Topics that everyone would be interested in, not everyone should necessarily know about it. Basically that it would be useful to everyone. 
*They also try to draw attention to people who might otherwise feel left out - usually this is done with general jokes directed at individuals*
Probably, though more likely not with general jokes.
*Betas also don't like it when people tell long, slow stories. Betas try to be polite and listen to the story, and they will forgive you if it was boring for them, but if someone does it too often they might not be invited back.*
Yes


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## Greyhart (Oct 13, 2014)

What you relate in TP&FJ groups seem to be more of generalized etiquette thing.

About loops, that is interesting. Perhaps your tertiary isn't strong enough to fall into it yet. Or you are obscenely healthy person. Or didn't notice when you did. :tongue:

In case you are curious Gamma Quadra - Wikisocion and Delta Quadra - Wikisocion


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## Apple Pine (Nov 27, 2014)

Greyhart said:


> What you relate in TP&FJ groups seem to be more of generalized etiquette thing.
> 
> About loops, that is interesting. Perhaps your tertiary isn't strong enough to fall into it yet. Or you are obscenely healthy person. Or didn't notice when you did. :tongue:
> 
> In case you are curious Gamma Quadra - Wikisocion and Delta Quadra - Wikisocion


Yea, just pointed out what I think. The first one makes most sense, I could not really leave any comment, as it's correct. 

I think I am pretty healthy now, I hardly ever get stressed now, doing just fine  Just thought of that I am spending a lot of time on mbti, it's just I always finish what I start, wish I could easier start things I want tho. 

*Gamma types do not see much point in deeply analyzing ideas that they see as having little practical application or connection to reality.*
I liked this tbh.


Eliminating ENFP, it's too UNLIKELY that I am Ne dom. Must be NTJ


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