# I think ADHD is fake



## chip (Oct 12, 2011)

I was diagnosed with ADD when I was 19 and I'm sure as a kid, I seemed like I had adhd, too. I never paid attention unless it was something I enjoyed. I sometimes got too loud and too excited. Maybe if teachers didn't stifle kids so much. I believe children and adults with adhd are just misunderstood. I think they are highly intelligent/creative individuals who are stepped on and forced to swallow pills. 

Why would you take away someone's creativeness with pills that dull the senses? Why not allow them to use their creativity in a way that safely helps them release everything inside?


Perhaps these people crave attention because they're really craving a way to express themselves, an outlet of some sort. 

"inattentiveness, over-activity, impulsivity, or a combination."


I don't see this as a problem. Lol. Let people be how they are. If you want to control them, you're a dick and you don't deserve to be around anyone with 'ADHD' These people are the salt of the earth to me and I love them all very much and I would never like to stifle them.


----------



## Kabosu (Mar 31, 2012)

Sometimes I perceive ADD and ADHD as "stages" and not so much disorders, but I guess that it also varies depending on the individual.

Hell, I'd say some people probably get wrongfully diagnosed as Aspies/autistic because people don't understand them and therefore also estimate some people as being more intelligent than they are. I'm vaguely speaking of my own experience on that end (I'm not saying those aren't alive & well).


----------



## Wellsy (Oct 24, 2011)

ADHD is real but to the extent its been medicated? probably not.
It's a real diagnosis but i do also think that pharmaceutical companies are making money in drugging up kids who dont need it.
Im very skeptical about how people treat people with ADHD, i guess caution should be evident in any situation when being treated by some form of drug.


----------



## KateMarie999 (Dec 20, 2011)

I have inattentive ADD and I need medication for the days I work. It's a real disorder, I do have an inability to concentrate when forced, but medication saved me from failing out of high school so I think it's very useful if given to the right people. I do think kids are over-diagnosed with the condition which makes the people who actually have it have to deal with people who refuse to accept it as a true disorder.


----------



## chip (Oct 12, 2011)

KateMarie999 said:


> I have inattentive ADD and I need medication for the days I work. It's a real disorder, I do have an inability to concentrate when forced, but medication saved me from failing out of high school so I think it's very useful if given to the right people. I do think kids are over-diagnosed with the condition which makes the people who actually have it have to deal with people who refuse to accept it as a true disorder.


I dropped out of school. I actually think it's fake because people are seen as having to be structured and if not, there's something wrong with them and that's wrong in my opinion. If I want to be in a carnival traveling around the world, there's nothing wrong with that but if I want to act that way in an office, people would call the police, why? I hate structure.


----------



## Epherion (Aug 23, 2011)

chip said:


> Why would you take away someone's creativeness with pills that dull the senses? Why not allow them to use their creativity in a way that safely helps them release everything inside?


Because, thats too much work for mommy and daddy and teacher. Submissive kids of today make submissive citizens of tomorrow.
The biggest injustice is that its mostly boys that are fed these behavioral meds due to the criminalization of masculinity in todays anit-male culture.


----------



## Owfin (Oct 15, 2011)

chip said:


> I dropped out of school. I actually think it's fake because people are seen as having to be structured and if not, there's something wrong with them and that's wrong in my opinion. If I want to be in a carnival traveling around the world, there's nothing wrong with that but if I want to act that way in an office, people would call the police, why? I hate structure.


I'm structured. I have ADD. I do not feel like my creativity is stifled in life. I have ADD. I am much less anti-authoritarian than most of my peers. I have ADD. The pills do not dull my senses; in fact, they heighten them, and I am more aware.

I have spoken about this a lot in the past, so here I will quote myself:



Owfin said:


> I have been professionally diagnosed and take medication for ADD. When I haven't taken the medication, I can actually feel myself being more annoying. It's funny, because other people say that I'm actually pretty alright if a bit loopy and impulsive, but dear god do I irritate the shit out of me without it. A lot of it is more inside your head (at least in the inattentive version) than out of it, because you find yourself unable to do that basic fundamental action of subconciously dividing your attention onto specific activities in measured quantities. You have to repeatedly tell to yourself to focus on getting ready in the morning because otherwise your mind will drift off to tapping a pencil. The difference between this and normal daydreaming is that when you daydream, you are still kinda thinking it through, whereas the ADD is more like you suddenly find your mind is on this other thing and you're like "What?". You feel a little out of it, like somehow stuff keeps coming out of your mouth or you do something and you aren't sure why.
> 
> I'm very glad for the concerta I am prescribed, because it makes it feel like whatever was broken is fixed. It feels _right_. And this is why I get pissed at people who go and say "Oh those kids on Ritalin just need recess and good discipline" because the people with ADD can be as active as anybody and be very disciplined and responsible (sometimes even as a way of dealing with their illness!). To see people treat it like it's somehow a problem with me or my parents or my friends or _anybody_ makes my blood boil.


----------



## bubbleboy (Sep 28, 2010)

Life is becoming faster paced so attention deficits are more of a problem now than they used to be. People treat it as a mental illness in America, but if you travel to another part of the world with a different culture it's not even an issue because it doesn't affect your ability to function as a normal member of society.


----------



## Paradox1987 (Oct 9, 2010)

Epherion said:


> Because, thats too much work for mommy and daddy and teacher. Submissive kids of today make submissive citizens of tomorrow.
> The biggest injustice is that its mostly boys that are fed these behavioral meds due to the criminalization of masculinity in todays anit-male culture.


Why do you think we live in a misandric world? I agree that the system is flawed, and that the medicalisation and structuralisation of crime has definitely led to a big jump in incarceration rates (particularly in Common Law countries). However, the groups affected share a common set of traits usually. Lack of meaningful skills/qualifications & a relative poverty/welfare trap. This means certain members of society are structurally geared to fail. But in terms of arrest rates and incarceration rates the rates of women in court and in prison has outstripped the corresponding rise in male defendants. The trend is pretty marked since 2005-present. I don't buy anti-male system theory.


----------



## Epherion (Aug 23, 2011)

Paradox1987 said:


> Why do you think we live in a misandric world? I agree that the system is flawed, and that the medicalisation and structuralisation of crime has definitely led to a big jump in incarceration rates (particularly in Common Law countries). However, the groups affected share a common set of traits usually. Lack of meaningful skills/qualifications & a relative poverty/welfare trap. This means certain members of society are structurally geared to fail. But in terms of arrest rates and incarceration rates the rates of women in court and in prison has outstripped the corresponding rise in male defendants. The trend is pretty marked since 2005-present. I don't buy anti-male system theory.


woah woah woah, you paragraph reads like a reactionary and lacks cogency, so this is what i can piece together:



> Why do you think we live in a misandric world?


Because coming to the USA i have only felt hatred like this once, that was in the Balkans.



> _But in terms of arrest rates and incarceration rates the rates of women in court and in prison has outstripped the corresponding rise in male defendants._ The trend is pretty marked since 2005-present. *I don't buy anti-male system theory*


Okay, i will need the evidence to the first part. Secondly, in the court system males are given a harsher prison sentence.


----------



## cue5c (Oct 12, 2011)

Maybe if you're only focusing on the attention part, but there are physical differences between people who have ADD and those don't. The reason I was able to find out I had it was not because of lack of attention, although that's certainly a problem, but because every time I'd drink caffeinated coffee I would get tired. For people with the condition, stimulants have the opposite effect. That's why coffee would give other people energy whereas it would drain mine. The whole point behind the drugs is for the amphetamine to have the opposite effect it would have on someone without ADD and therefore help them concentrate.


----------



## Paradox1987 (Oct 9, 2010)

Epherion said:


> woah woah woah, you paragraph reads like a reactionary and lacks cogency, so this is what i can piece together


Apologies. It's a little late here. I really should sleep... But the phenomenon I'm referring to is:
Punishing the Poor: The Neoliberal Government of Social Insecurity (a John Hope Franklin Center Book):Amazon:Books




> Okay, i will need the evidence to the first part.


Sure thing:
What Works With Women Offenders:Amazon:Books



> Secondly, in the court system males are given a harsher prison sentence.


Common misconception. But not borne out in practice. My practical experience has matched research trends too. But in a nutshell, women's offence patterns haven't changed. The response to it has. More women are incarcerated because perversely judges see the inadequacy of financial penalties in a set of people in a weaker economic state. Solution, up-tariff the offence and woman in jail. The only time a woman will get a lenient sentence by dint of being a woman is if she's a mother. s.1 Childrens Act states that a depenedent child's interest be given paramountcy. So down tariffing can occur for the child's best interests.

Global Lockdown: Race, Gender, and the Prison-Industrial Complex:Amazon:Books

Children Act 1989

PS, I'm speaking from an England and Wales specific focus, but the trends are replicated in neoliberal common law jurisdictions, the USA follows trend.


----------



## cara_cara (Aug 3, 2012)

i have a close family member with ADHD and I can say the right medicine, along with the right behavioral management techniques, does help and it doesn't deaden her senses.

But i think it does a disservice to someone who does have ADHD to say "ADHD is fake..." or "that's society trying to keep you from being who you are" as much as it would to tell a clinically depressed person "aww...just suck it up and you'll feel better"


----------



## Epherion (Aug 23, 2011)

Paradox1987 said:


> Apologies. It's a little late here. I really should sleep... But the phenomenon I'm referring to is:
> Punishing the Poor: The Neoliberal Government of Social Insecurity (a John Hope Franklin Center Book):Amazon:Books
> 
> 
> ...


Damn it, why did you link me books? 

Women get lenient prison sentences:
Do You Receive a Lighter Prison Sentence Because You Are a Woman? An Economic Analysis of Federal Criminal Sentencing Guidelines
Unless you are a black woman, but if you act white, lighter sentence from you:
http://www.nasw.org/users/mslong/2011/2011_05/Prison.htm
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...&sig=AHIEtbRABYWqbSVF_-Awu_tpvt812rWbWQ&pli=1
Do women receive lighter prison sentences than men? If so, why? - Barking up the wrong tree

Also, whats this i heard about the UK shutting down woman's prisons?


----------



## chip (Oct 12, 2011)

cue5c said:


> Maybe if you're only focusing on the attention part, but there are physical differences between people who have ADD and those don't. The reason I was able to find out I had it was not because of lack of attention, although that's certainly a problem, but because every time I'd drink caffeinated coffee I would get tired. For people with the condition, stimulants have the opposite effect. That's why coffee would give other people energy whereas it would drain mine. The whole point behind the drugs is for the amphetamine to have the opposite effect it would have on someone without ADD and therefore help them concentrate.


Weird, because when I drink caffeine, I get WAY too much energy resulting in panic. Before I had panic disorder, I felt pretty good but too giddy and stupid on it. I don't know, maybe I have slight add.


----------



## muhahaha (Sep 1, 2012)

i don't know what this is about but how do i block someone from mentioning/pming me?


----------



## chip (Oct 12, 2011)

cara_cara said:


> i have a close family member with ADHD and I can say the right medicine, along with the right behavioral management techniques, does help and it doesn't deaden her senses.
> 
> But i think it does a disservice to someone who does have ADHD to say "ADHD is fake..." or "that's society trying to keep you from being who you are" as much as it would to tell a clinically depressed person "aww...just suck it up and you'll feel better"


You're taking what I said completely out of context. I didn't down on anyone with ADHD, I actually said they're creative people and that I don't think it should be labeled. When things get labeled, most of the time, doctors put people on pills. Most people are labeled because society says they're not "evolved" enough for society's standards which is horse shit.


----------



## cue5c (Oct 12, 2011)

chip said:


> You're taking what I said completely out of context. I didn't down on anyone with ADHD, I actually said they're creative people and that I don't think it should be labeled. When things get labeled, most of the time, doctors put people on pills. Most people are labeled because society says they're not "evolved" enough for society's standards which is horse shit.


The meds are meant to calm you down and allow you to focus. It's not something that stays in your system, either, which is why if I don't take them I'll be my base ADD self. And I don't think it's horse shit. You can't create your own standards and expect society to just accept them. You have to force yourself into the mix, and they will fight you. Few people can handle that and instead return to their dream world and bitch about others not accepting them without question. If you want to be successful, you have to create a mix of the two. Just enough that society lets you in while not so much that you lose yourself. 

Having meds helps immensely. I find I generate ideas off the meds and then execute said ideas while I'm on them. I wouldn't have that level of drive without them, just the feeling that I could do so much more.


----------



## chip (Oct 12, 2011)

cue5c said:


> The meds are meant to calm you down and allow you to focus. It's not something that stays in your system, either, which is why if I don't take them I'll be my base ADD self. And I don't think it's horse shit. You can't create your own standards and expect society to just accept them. You have to force yourself into the mix, and they will fight you. Few people can handle that and instead return to their dream world and bitch about others not accepting them without question. If you want to be successful, you have to create a mix of the two. Just enough that society lets you in while not so much that you lose yourself.
> 
> Having meds helps immensely. I find I generate ideas off the meds and then execute said ideas while I'm on them. I wouldn't have that level of drive without them, just the feeling that I could do so much more.


Who gives a fuck about what society thinks? I really don't, which is why I'm so against drugs. I've seen too many people on adderall fuck their lives up.


----------



## cue5c (Oct 12, 2011)

chip said:


> Who gives a fuck about what society thinks? I really don't, which is why I'm so against drugs. I've seen too many people on adderall fuck their lives up.


How did those people fuck their lives up?


----------



## Wellsy (Oct 24, 2011)

@MonieJ

This is the sort of thing that really makes me suss about the motivations of pharmaceutical companies 






I think its pretty intense giving school age kids with developing brains psychotropic drugs, may help some but really need to be sure with that sort of thing.


----------



## CrabbyPaws (Mar 5, 2012)

I salute you for making a thread like this, and I very much agree. It's like people just try to find anything to label these days, but the problem is that it's all negative. No matter which way we are these days, it's some sort of 'disorder'. Maybe it is the 'perfect-order' the way nature intended.


----------



## chip (Oct 12, 2011)

Owfin said:


> What? What @_goodgracesbadinfluence_ was saying was that if so many people have it, then it's not a disorder because a disorder is something that goes outside what is regular and normal, an irregularity. Therefore, if a lot of people have it, it is no longer an irregularity and thus no longer a disorder.


Then why do they consider GAD a disorder? That's actually pretty common.


----------



## goodgracesbadinfluence (Feb 28, 2011)

chip said:


> Because the majority is right?


I don't know where I implied anything about a majority being right. It's because, as @Owfin and @Sapphyreopal5 stated, for something to be a DISORDER it cannot occur in most people. I believe it's highly over-diagnosed, which in turn leads people to believe it's fake, which hurts people with the actual condition.


----------



## chip (Oct 12, 2011)

goodgracesbadinfluence said:


> I don't know where I implied anything about a majority being right. It's because, as @_Owfin_ and @_Sapphyreopal5_ stated, for something to be a DISORDER it cannot occur in most people. I believe it's highly over-diagnosed, which in turn leads people to believe it's fake, which hurts people with the actual condition.


I guess that means my anxiety disorder is not a disorder?


----------



## goodgracesbadinfluence (Feb 28, 2011)

chip said:


> I guess that means my anxiety disorder is not a disorder?


I suggest you try using logic and actually try reading what I'm saying before getting smart with me. I NEVER said ADHD was fake. I actually said, "I don't think ADHD is fake." I also fail to see the correlation between ADHD in general and your specific anxiety disorder.


----------



## LarinLazet (Aug 4, 2012)

chip said:


> I guess that means my anxiety disorder is not a disorder?


It honestly depends on how you define "disorder". My personal definition is the same as what's on Wikipedia: 
_
A mental disorder or mental illness is a psychological pattern or anomaly, potentially reflected in behavior, that is generally associated with distress or disability, and which is not considered part of normal development of a person's culture.

_In other words, it's an "abnormal" pattern that causes distress or is potentially disabling. If you go by the _"If it's common it's not a disorder," _ definition, then no. It's a completely normal part of being human. However, since panic attacks are potentially debilitating and interfere with everyday life, it's a disorder just like ADHD. However, I completely agree ADHD is over diagnosed.

Many parents assume "Oh, Sally isn't giving her full attention to her teacher and throws a tantrum. She must have ADHD!" and take them to the doctor to fix it instead of addressing the problem. Many people have ADHD, and _don't_ need medication. Others might find it so hard to focus on tasks and control their impulses to the point where they cannot function in schools or hold a job. In those cases, medication is necessary, but I would be extremely wary concerning young children. Sleep deprivation or sleep problems can easily mimic symptoms of ADHD in children, and go unnoticed.

I wouldn't be so quick to label it as a "fake" just because you yourself don't have a problem with it. Maybe you have a milder case? Everyone is different, so just because it's not the same for you, it is not fake. "Let people be people" but don't forget that not everyone has the same experience as you do.


----------



## chip (Oct 12, 2011)

LarinLazet said:


> It honestly depends on how you define "disorder". My personal definition is the same as what's on Wikipedia:
> _
> A mental disorder or mental illness is a psychological pattern or anomaly, potentially reflected in behavior, that is generally associated with distress or disability, and which is not considered part of normal development of a person's culture.
> 
> ...


I don't consider a behavioral pattern a disorder. I consider a brain imbalance a disorder like bi polar or border line personality disorder.


----------



## chip (Oct 12, 2011)

goodgracesbadinfluence said:


> I suggest you try using logic and actually try reading what I'm saying before getting smart with me. I NEVER said ADHD was fake. I actually said, "I don't think ADHD is fake." I also fail to see the correlation between ADHD in general and your specific anxiety disorder.


Lol. Getting smart with you? I was asking a simple question. Adhd obviously has something to do with anxiety disorder since it's so common, right? Because they're both disorders, and not say...a behavioral pattern. Hmm.


----------



## chip (Oct 12, 2011)

goodgracesbadinfluence said:


> I don't know where I implied anything about a majority being right. It's because, as @_Owfin_ and @_Sapphyreopal5_ stated, for something to be a DISORDER it cannot occur in most people. I believe it's highly over-diagnosed, which in turn leads people to believe it's fake, which hurts people with the actual condition.


I may be reading you wrong but you're saying that basically ADHD is not fake, yet you say it's not common, either yet it is.


----------



## Inguz (Mar 10, 2012)

chip said:


> I may be reading you wrong but you're saying that basically ADHD is not fake, yet you say it's not common, either yet it is.


Alexander Crichton - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You're welcome. Now go back to hiding under that rock of yours.


----------



## chip (Oct 12, 2011)

Inguz said:


> Alexander Crichton - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> You're welcome. Now go back to hiding under that rock of yours.


And this makes ADHD a real disorder how? ADHD is a label that people use to try and control children/adults.

I wouldn't trust someone who came up with the idea ages ago anyway since our knowledge is vaster now
so perhaps you are the one under a rock. An ancient rock.


----------



## Inguz (Mar 10, 2012)

chip said:


> And this makes ADHD a real disorder how? ADHD is a label that people use to try and control children/adults.
> 
> I wouldn't trust someone who came up with the idea ages ago anyway since our knowledge is vaster now
> so perhaps you are the one under a rock. An ancient rock.


It's been observed over two hundreds of years now, if that doesn't ring a bell then I don't know what kind of empirical evidence you will accept even if I present it to you.

Scientologists shares your opinion about psychiatry is being used as means to control people.


----------



## SilentScream (Mar 31, 2011)

bubbleboy said:


> Life is becoming faster paced so attention deficits are more of a problem now than they used to be. People treat it as a mental illness in America, but if you travel to another part of the world with a different culture it's not even an issue because it doesn't affect your ability to function as a normal member of society.


I understand where you're coming from on this to an extent. Other than issues with mal-diagnosis and over-medication, I honestly think that ADD and ADHD are worth considering real problems. My ex and her nephew were both ADD and ADHD and I spent years battling it on my own without any help or guidance because none was available for them - so I ended up having to bear the entire strain of my ex's condition on my own. 

In the end, I decided to influence her to do some research on the disorders through her University thesis and after that suggest that she receive proper medical attention for it. But then, by that time our relationship had soured to the point of no return. I have never been able to figure out how much of an influence her ADD and ADHD had on our relationship because there was no way of finding out as it wasn't even considered as a potential problem area. 

I think it's a very real problem and there are lots of people who have benefited from treatments. I would definitely like to see people acknowledge it as a problem in my country as well instead of ignoring it and trying to make children with psychological problems live with them in the end without any help or assistance. 

It's almost cruel in a way and the pressures on the kids is immense. I saw my ex's nephew disintegrate to a near suicidal state at the age of 13 till my ex finally discovered he had a very real problem. Hopefully he's doing better now. But back then, his relationship with his father had disintegrated to a level of him hating him.


----------



## Paradox1987 (Oct 9, 2010)

Epherion said:


> I dont have money or time to buy and read this.


Google is kinda free?





> It generally accepted that when a woman and man commit the same crimes, she gets lesser sentencing, even if they are both first offenders. My soc class and gender studies class confirmed it.
> 
> 
> Sentencing Law and Policy: Race and gender disparity and discrimination


No it isn't. Hence the sources I gave you. But equally, I have represented many women who have had their sentences up-tariffed. Again, my professional experience as a defence lawyer confirms this. 



> Gender Equality at its finest.


Depends what you mean by that term. Equality of impact in sentencing and imprisoning would be wrong because? If equal sentences give unequal impact, have you achieved equality? Anyway, I don't want to derail this thread. But if you're interested in sentencing laws, feel free to PM me.


----------



## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

my apologies for not reading every single post, so I'm primarily going by thread topic (title) here ..

I'm not one for labels because I feel they are thrown around frivolously and everyone seems to run to prescription medication before other alternatives. And I could understand someone being dubious of it's legitimacy because of that. But I think consequential evidence suggests that there is indeed a very real problem with a prevalence in anxiety / ADD and ADHD disorders. (I often feel it's diet and other environmental factors that have exasperated the condition to extreme cases). 

I myself struggle with anxiety and it is absolutely just SUCKY. It permeates my personality and effects the success of relationships and goals etc. I do my best to 'think' it through, or battle it and manage it. I am not so sure my anxiety issues are all encompassing though, (I think it's stress induced due to prolonged circumstances etc.) Because as a child I was so mellow! My brother was for sure ADHD. There used to be an SNL skit with this kid in a helmet bouncing off the walls ... yeah, that was him  

And my son for sure has ADHD. And that is a big problem which is inhibiting his ability to make progress in school (lack of focus, attention to tasks), not to mention the difficulties with home. Because he can't focus very long, it's as if he is that much more incapable of comprehending and managing his emotions. (there is more to play in my in particular situation) but needless to say ... ADHD Does Exist.


----------



## LarinLazet (Aug 4, 2012)

chip said:


> I don't consider a behavioral pattern a disorder. I consider a brain imbalance a disorder like bi polar or border line personality disorder.


Is behavior not determined by the brain? That is to say that an abnormal/distressing behavior pattern can and usually is caused by a brain imbalance. Bipolar disorder was first diagnosed by studying behavior, which lead to brain scans showing that it is a brain imbalance. How would you know that one had bipolar disorder unless they were exhibiting manic or depressive behavior cycles first? There is actually evidence suggesting there may be a brain imbalance in people with ADHD.


----------



## Staffan (Nov 15, 2011)

LarinLazet said:


> Is behavior not determined by the brain? That is to say that an abnormal/distressing behavior pattern can and usually is caused by a brain imbalance. Bipolar disorder was first diagnosed by studying behavior, which lead to brain scans showing that it is a brain imbalance. How would you know that one had bipolar disorder unless they were exhibiting manic or depressive behavior cycles first? There is actually evidence suggesting there may be a brain imbalance in people with ADHD.


What is abnormal other than a deviation from normality? Like being gay, which can also be very distressing and has a biological basis. If it wasn't for political reasons, the article you link to could just as well have been about homosexuality. They just throw out words like "imbalance", "abnormality", or "disturbance" along with some fancy brain scan pictures and hope people will not stop and ask themselves what's going on. And it works.


----------



## LarinLazet (Aug 4, 2012)

Staffan said:


> What is abnormal other than a deviation from normality? Like being gay, which can also be very distressing and has a biological basis. If it wasn't for political reasons, the article you link to could just as well have been about homosexuality. They just throw out words like "imbalance", "abnormality", or "disturbance" along with some fancy brain scan pictures and hope people will not stop and ask themselves what's going on. And it works.


Which is why I said in an earlier post, it depends on your definition of disorder. I'm not quite sure what you mean by "biological basis", however, from the last part of the definition posted "..._and which is not considered part of normal development of a person's culture._" 

If you consider it to not be part of general development (I do, which is why I never considered it could be a thought of as a disorder), then yes, you may think that using the same words, it could be about homosexuality. However, it depends on what kind of distress is caused. Is it outside pressure (fear of being shunned, or ridiculed) causing the distress, or is it internal distress that interferes with living everyday life? If it is the first, then the issue is not homosexuality, it's the anxiety causing the distress out of fear of persecution. 

If the distress is internal, and they can't function to the point it is debilitating, then, sure that person may think they have a disorder, and they are free to feel that opinion. If they do not believe homosexuality is a normal part of being human, there's no convincing them otherwise, is there? There_ are_ some homosexuals who _voluntarily_ go to clinics to be "cured".

Using myself as an example, I do not experience sexual attraction, something that is "abnormal", by society's standards. It causes a large amount of (mostly) external and internal distress. However, it is not a disorder, because I can easily continue life and function like "normal". However, I also have depression, another "abnormal" condition, which affects my ability to carry on life "normally" which I believe to be extremely distressing. That I would consider a disorder.

A few people in this thread have expressed that they personally believed they could not function otherwise due to their ADHD, which caused undue stress. They were not stressed because another person or a group of people told they they were "wrong". 

There are situations in which the choice of whether they have a disorder may be made for a person, such as when it is clearly physically harmful to themselves or another person, however, homosexuality is neither or those things.


----------



## chip (Oct 12, 2011)

LarinLazet said:


> Which is why I said in an earlier post, it depends on your definition of disorder. I'm not quite sure what you mean by "biological basis", however, from the last part of the definition posted "..._and which is not considered part of normal development of a person's culture._"
> 
> If you consider it to not be part of general development (I do, which is why I never considered it could be a thought of as a disorder), then yes, you may think that using the same words, it could be about homosexuality. However, it depends on what kind of distress is caused. Is it outside pressure (fear of being shunned, or ridiculed) causing the distress, or is it internal distress that interferes with living everyday life? If it is the first, then the issue is not homosexuality, it's the anxiety causing the distress out of fear of persecution.
> 
> ...



You're saying that homosexuality and adhd are just opinions, then, and it doesn't seem like you're really too solid on the idea that there are actually proven facts that adhd is real. Actually, people were stressed about ADHD because they know it's wrong because that's what society tells them. If it wasn't viewed as wrong, then it wouldn't be labeled as a disorder to begin with. Society has already made a judgement. As well with homosexuality which is why a lot of those gay folk you speak of go to get cured, because some idiots consider it bad. Like when you speak out of turn in school, it's wrong. You're not allowed to speak out of turn, not allowed to do anything except be what the teacher wants you to be which is why I leave this here:


----------



## goodgracesbadinfluence (Feb 28, 2011)

chip said:


> Sometimes having anxiety? Everyone has anxiety. The DSM-IV takes shit out of their directory because they realize some of their diagnoses are fucked. GAD Is not a disorder, period. Go read up on Claire weekes. GAD is curable and not permanent and has to do with the amygdala and adrenaline, not some chemical imbalance, therefor, it isn't a disorder. This is why I mentioned this, because you don't know what a disorder is or an imbalance because you rely on what the DSM-IV says aka society.


You have completely twisted this around. I am done responding to you.


----------



## chip (Oct 12, 2011)

LarinLazet said:


> @_Staffan_:
> I will reply to you through message, because it's becoming more general about disorders themselves, than specifically ADHD.
> @_chip_:
> I will have to decline. I'm under the impression that doing so is pointless. We have completely different views on what a "disorder" and "behavior problems" are. I will say one last thing however:
> ...


I am not generalizing, you are when you say that ADHD is a disorder when it's a label, a false label to control people.


----------



## Death Persuades (Feb 17, 2012)

Zeptometer said:


> I think there are more true things out there, but I wouldn't say it's fake. That being said, I have absolutely no idea what I'm doing anyway.


I have the conviction that you are posting on a forum, kind sir.


----------



## chip (Oct 12, 2011)

josue0098 said:


> I like how you try to sound smart.


I like how you try to insult my intelligence because you know I'm correct.


----------



## Death Persuades (Feb 17, 2012)

chip said:


> I like how you try to insult my intelligence because you know I'm correct.


I like how you say adrenaline is not a chemical. You should look up what a disorder is, too. it means when something is out of order... As in when there is an imbalance. I rest my case.


----------



## chip (Oct 12, 2011)

josue0098 said:


> I like how you say adrenaline is not a chemical. I rest my case.


Adrenaline is a hormone, hormones are chemicals. Thanks for assuming, though.


----------



## chip (Oct 12, 2011)

josue0098 said:


> I like how you say adrenaline is not a chemical. You should look up what a disorder is, too. it means when something is out of order... As in when there is an imbalance. I rest my case.


Chemical imbalance and an imbalance to the way society is, is not a disorder, that is a bullshit assumption that if someone is doing something 'abnormal' then they obviously have an imbalance or a disorder.


----------



## Death Persuades (Feb 17, 2012)

chip said:


> Adrenaline is a hormone, hormones are chemicals. Thanks for assuming, though.


"_GAD is curable and not permanent and has to do with the amygdala and adrenaline, not some chemical imbalance, therefor, it isn't a disorder."_

_If adrenaline is released when not needed, it creates an imbalance, a chemical imbalance. many disorders are curable and not permanent._


----------



## chip (Oct 12, 2011)

josue0098 said:


> "_GAD is curable and not permanent and has to do with the amygdala and adrenaline, not some chemical imbalance, therefor, it isn't a disorder."_
> 
> _If adrenaline is released when not needed, it creates an imbalance, a chemical imbalance. many disorders are curable and not permanent._


Adrenaline released (Or excess adrenaline) is not a chemical imbalance, it's normal but people with panic attacks have them because they don't know this. Which causes the second fear reaction to the adrenaline release, or adrenaline rush. Chemical imbalances would be bi polar or schizophrenia.


----------



## chip (Oct 12, 2011)

Adrenaline rush is by default considered fight or flight anyway but the reason why people have this reaction when a tiger isn't coming after them is because they perpetuate a cycle of panic, being afraid of your body's normal healthy reaction to fear.


----------



## Death Persuades (Feb 17, 2012)

chip said:


> Adrenaline released (Or excess adrenaline) is not a chemical imbalance, it's normal but people with panic attacks have them because they don't know this. Which causes the second fear reaction to the adrenaline release, or adrenaline rush. Chemical imbalances would be bi polar or schizophrenia.


I think you might have GAD and just don't _feel_ like calling it a disorder. it's not a disorder according to who, you?


----------



## Death Persuades (Feb 17, 2012)

chip said:


> Adrenaline rush is by default considered fight or flight anyway but the reason why people have this reaction when a tiger isn't coming after them is because they perpetuate a cycle of panic, being afraid of your body's normal healthy reaction to fear.


I'm going to stop replying to you on this thread. You have no idea what you're talking about.


----------



## chip (Oct 12, 2011)

josue0098 said:


> I think you might have GAD and just don't _feel_ like calling it a disorder. it's not a disorder according to who, you?


According to Claire weekes. I highly respect her. These things are labeled as disorders for a reason. Maybe you should research the reason. How is a behavioral habit a disorder?


----------



## chip (Oct 12, 2011)

josue0098 said:


> I'm going to stop replying to you on this thread. You have no idea what you're talking about.


"
The pitfalls are sensitization , bewilderment (confusion) and fear. For Dr. Weekes, these are the three reasons why you are the way you are, and why you stay this way.
She describes sensitization as a person’s body being in an elevated state of sensitivity so that almost anything can trigger the sympathetic nervous system, which leads to things like panic attacks.
Dr. Weekes stated that this was the reason why you are jumpy, and prone to the over production of adrenaline, which ultimately causes all the nasty physical symptoms you encounter.
The second pitfall is bewilderment. She believed that because most people don’t understand the physical basis for a panic attack, or other anxiety related symptom, they become confused and “stuck in a maze.” It’s the confusion that keeps you anxious and may even worsen the condition, since it tends to rob you of hope and direction.
The last pitfall is fear. Dr. Weekes argues that after a while you’re simply afraid of your constant state of fear. This also contributes to more sensitization and confusion.
Dr. Weekes also thought of chronic anxiety as a cycle, a set pattern. A pattern that could be figured out and defeated.
Best of all, recovery from chronic anxiety according to Dr. Weekes is not rocket science. Her method of recovery is this:* accept, float, and let time pass.* She states over and over that if you do this you can get better."


----------



## Death Persuades (Feb 17, 2012)

chip said:


> According to Claire weekes. I highly respect her. These things are labeled as disorders for a reason. Maybe you should research the reason. How is a behavioral habit a disorder?


How, exactly, is releasing redundant adrenaline a "habit"? Bodies don't have habits, just reactions, and in the case of GAD, an abnormal one where it releases adrenaline when not needed, thus creating an Imbalance (disorder). Also, I read a bit about her, and she just changed the name to make her patients feel better. LOL


----------



## Death Persuades (Feb 17, 2012)

chip said:


> "
> The pitfalls are sensitization , bewilderment (confusion) and fear. For Dr. Weekes, these are the three reasons why you are the way you are, and why you stay this way.
> She describes sensitization as a person’s body being in an elevated state of sensitivity so that almost anything can trigger the sympathetic nervous system, which leads to things like panic attacks.
> Dr. Weekes stated that this was the reason why you are jumpy, and prone to the over production of adrenaline, which ultimately causes all the nasty physical symptoms you encounter.
> ...


LOL! And all the pages she published were on the reproductive biology of reptiles.. yeah, let's trust her with our bodies.


----------



## chip (Oct 12, 2011)

josue0098 said:


> How, exactly, is releasing redundant adrenaline a "habit"? Bodies don't have habits, just reactions, and in the case of GAD, an abnormal one where it releases adrenaline when not needed, thus creating an Imbalance (disorder). Also, I read a bit about her, and she just changed the name to make her patients feel better. LOL


Really? Could you put the link in here where it states that she changed the name to make them feel better? 

"A *mental disorder* or *mental illness* is a psychological pattern or anomaly, potentially reflected in behavior, that is generally associated with distress or disability, and which is not considered part of normal development of a person's culture."

Normal development of a person's culture. 

You cause more adrenaline to release by being afraid of the initial adrenaline release. This causes your body to go more into a fight or flight or freeze mode. It is not a disorder, or an illness if it's curable. That is our culture, our society as I've mentioned assuming it's a disorder if you can't function properly, like being apart of the status, working like a horse, being properly controlled.


----------



## goodgracesbadinfluence (Feb 28, 2011)

Yeah last time I checked ONE person's thoughts, research, opinions, etc. were NOT enough to diagnose and treat people....


----------



## chip (Oct 12, 2011)

josue0098 said:


> LOL! And all the pages she published were on the reproductive biology of reptiles.. yeah, let's trust her with our bodies.


Have you not heard of the books she has published? "Hope and help for your nerves" "Pass through anxiety" How does publishing anything about reptiles have to do with her writing about high anxiety? That is such an invalid argument and you still haven't given me the link that shows she wanted to make her patients feel better.


----------



## chip (Oct 12, 2011)

goodgracesbadinfluence said:


> Yeah last time I checked ONE person's thoughts, research, opinions, etc. were NOT enough to diagnose and treat people....


Which is why the pharmaceutical companies are so rich, because of people like you.


----------



## goodgracesbadinfluence (Feb 28, 2011)

chip said:


> "*If you see improvement with that method, that's fantastic that it works for you. But what works for you will not work for everyone*."
> 
> I was responding to this part. What works for me won't work for everyone as opposed to shoving dangerous pills down your throat for the rest of your life?


Medication is typically not dangerous as long as it is properly used.


----------



## chip (Oct 12, 2011)

goodgracesbadinfluence said:


> Medication is typically not dangerous as long as it is properly used.


Anxiety medication can cause adverse effects in people, and caused me to have gastric dumping syndrome.


----------



## chip (Oct 12, 2011)

josue0098 said:


> That article wasn't written by her.


I'm talking about her books and the person who wrote it wrote it in accordance to what she meant.


----------



## Briguy (Nov 20, 2011)

add/adhd is a lack of dopamine in the brain, this leads to poor concentration, yes adhd is very real, it is however very much over-diagnosed (so is aspergers) because child psychologist focus on behavior over other factors, ie johnny can't sit still there must be something wrong with him, instead of johnny just being energetic he's saddled with a mental "disorder". Psychology needs to be properly vetted, as it has a tendency to follow trends. I have add.


----------



## goodgracesbadinfluence (Feb 28, 2011)

chip said:


> Anxiety medication can cause adverse effects in people, and caused me to have gastric dumping syndrome.


I said "typically" and "properly used." If it causes adverse effects in people, it's time for the psychiatrist/therapist/doctor to try other solutions.


----------



## chip (Oct 12, 2011)

Briguy said:


> add/adhd is a lack of dopamine in the brain, this leads to poor concentration, yes adhd is very real, it is however very much over-diagnosed (so is aspergers) because child psychologist focus on behavior over other factors, ie johnny can't sit still there must be something wrong with him, instead of johnny just being energetic he's saddled with a mental "disorder". Psychology needs to be properly vetted, as it has a tendency to follow trends. I have add.


I guess this means that in school I had a lack of dopamine which is why I rebelled so much against teachers trying to control me, instead of just rebelling because I knew that most of school was bogus.


----------



## chip (Oct 12, 2011)

goodgracesbadinfluence said:


> I said "typically" and "properly used." If it causes adverse effects in people, it's time for the psychiatrist/therapist/doctor to try other solutions.


Oh, I know what other solutions! How about MORE drugs! Because experimentation is key here, even if the patient is suffering already. That is the reality of the situations. More experiments until the person is so withered from drugs, they kill themselves, which is true in most cases. You're worse off than you were before you even tried the drugs. Also, I used the drugs properly and it caused me problems, and also caused me to panic even more.


----------



## goodgracesbadinfluence (Feb 28, 2011)

chip said:


> Oh, I know what other solutions! How about MORE drugs! Because experimentation is key here, even if the patient is suffering already. That is the reality of the situations. More experiments until the person is so withered from drugs, they kill themselves, which is true in most cases. You're worse off than you were before you even tried the drugs. Also, I used the drugs properly and it caused me problems, and also caused me to panic even more.


Gonna have to see some sources on your claim that "most people who are on anxiety meds kill themselves." 

If you used the drug properly and it caused you problems, you were given a drug that didn't work for you, meaning a good therapist/doctor/psychiatrist would have taken you off it. And yes, to a degree, it IS experimentation. The doctor has to experiment with the drugs to figure out what works for you, because there is no uniform drug that will work for everyone-- that's most likely impossible due to biology, genetics, etc. 

Also, unless I'm severely mistaken, you have every right to refuse medication unless you are a danger to yourself or someone else. Or if you're a minor, then that's your parents' call.


----------



## Death Persuades (Feb 17, 2012)

chip said:


> Oh, I know what other solutions! How about MORE drugs! Because experimentation is key here, even if the patient is suffering already. That is the reality of the situations. More experiments until the person is so withered from drugs, they kill themselves, which is true in most cases. You're worse off than you were before you even tried the drugs. Also, I used the drugs properly and it caused me problems, and also caused me to panic even more.


Why did you bring up your disorder anyway? Attention? it surely worked. I don't care what you call it, or what Claire Weekes, the Dr. in reptillian reproductive biology, say, it is what it is, and that is a disorder.


----------



## chip (Oct 12, 2011)

josue0098 said:


> Why did you bring up your disorder anyway? Attention? it surely worked. I don't care what you call it, or what Claire Weekes, the Dr. in reptillian reproductive biology, say, it is what it is, and that is a disorder.


To prove a point that just because it's considered a disorder, doesn't mean it is. I don't think you're digging deep enough. You're too narrow minded.


----------



## chip (Oct 12, 2011)

goodgracesbadinfluence said:


> Gonna have to see some sources on your claim that "most people who are on anxiety meds kill themselves."
> 
> If you used the drug properly and it caused you problems, you were given a drug that didn't work for you, meaning a good therapist/doctor/psychiatrist would have taken you off it. And yes, to a degree, it IS experimentation. The doctor has to experiment with the drugs to figure out what works for you, because there is no uniform drug that will work for everyone-- that's most likely impossible due to biology, genetics, etc.
> 
> Also, unless I'm severely mistaken, you have every right to refuse medication unless you are a danger to yourself or someone else. Or if you're a minor, then that's your parents' call.


Why would anyone need to experiment with their body like that? We are not guinea pigs, we're human beings and even experimenting on guinea pigs bothers me. 

http://jannel.se/psychiatricdrugs.suicide.pdf also, what are the side effects for anti anxiety medications or anti depressants?


----------



## Death Persuades (Feb 17, 2012)

chip said:


> To prove a point that just because it's considered a disorder, doesn't mean it is. I don't think you're digging deep enough. You're too narrow minded.


Oh, I know I am. Especially when it comes to people that just don't want to accept they have a disorder so they want to change the name. Funny how Weekes also had a disorder. I have slight OCD, and I don't enjoy saying I have a disorder, but just because I don't like it, I'm not gonna go around trying to change its name.


----------



## NotSoRighteousRob (Jan 1, 2010)

I believe this boils down mostly to the goals of the individual and that of society. People with add/adhd when you take the literal diagnostic definition may or may not be able to be happy or successful depending on their own personal views and self image that is likely heavily influenced on the area they are in/grew up. 

I do believe with chemical alteration anyone can be more adjusted to their current situation, but the amount of time and research to fine tune a human to this extent would be vast and completely based on the individual. All of us process chemical reactions slightly differently even if it is only 0.001% in a certain area. There is no way at our current level of understanding to truly say one way or the other what is best for each individual. I believe only the individual can decide that for themselves.

However for those that use medications in the treatment of add/adhd any stimulant carries risks regardless of dosage but more dependent on duration. This is just as true though if the person leaves the condition untreated, so finding yourself facing a choice where you are bound to lose you should focus on being healthy/happy today as technology development will likely fix more problems later on.

Just know the limits of medications, the effects of neurotoxicity, and try to make a well informed decision. With all the variables involved nobody can tell another what is best, but they can try to help them find the answer.


----------



## Death Persuades (Feb 17, 2012)

chip said:


> Why would anyone need to experiment with their body like that? We are not guinea pigs, we're human beings and even experimenting on guinea pigs bothers me.
> 
> http://jannel.se/psychiatricdrugs.suicide.pdf also, what are the side effects for anti anxiety medications or anti depressants?


Why should I trust something from this "Janne Lanson"? A quick search didn't bring up any scientist.

EDIT: Larsson. Made no difference anyway. No results.


----------



## chip (Oct 12, 2011)

Risk of suicide attempts after benzodiazepine ... [Ann Epidemiol. 1997] - PubMed - NCBI


----------



## chip (Oct 12, 2011)

josue0098 said:


> Why should I trust something from this "Janne Lanson"? A quick search didn't bring up any scientist.


Oh, so you're not trusting doctors and therapists but scientists right? Did you research how the amygdala works? Also how adrenaline effects the amygdala?


----------



## chip (Oct 12, 2011)

josue0098 said:


> Oh, I know I am. Especially when it comes to people that just don't want to accept they have a disorder so they want to change the name. Funny how Weekes also had a disorder. I have slight OCD, and I don't enjoy saying I have a disorder, but just because I don't like it, I'm not gonna go around trying to change its name.


When you call it a disorder, you make it seem like it's permanent, and it's not.


----------



## Death Persuades (Feb 17, 2012)

chip said:


> Oh, so you're not trusting doctors and therapists but scientists right? Did you research how the amygdala works? Also how adrenaline effects the amygdala?


I already know how they work, and when they work improperly, they are "out of order". (disordered)


----------



## Death Persuades (Feb 17, 2012)

chip said:


> When you call it a disorder, you make it seem like it's permanent, and it's not.


Please tell me where I said its permanent, and where any doctor has ever said that all disorders are permanent.


----------



## chip (Oct 12, 2011)

josue0098 said:


> I already know how they work, and when they work improperly, they are "out of order". (disordered)


Out of order? Not working properly, eh? According to whom? You don't think you function properly just because you have an anxious habitual behavioral pattern?


----------



## chip (Oct 12, 2011)

josue0098 said:


> Please tell me where I said its permanent, and where any doctor has ever said that all disorders are permanent.


A lot of doctors and therapists love using the term disorder because it seems more permanent like something is horribly wrong with you when in actuality, there isn't anything wrong with you that can't be fixed anyway. They do this so they can get rich from administering drugs.


----------



## Death Persuades (Feb 17, 2012)

chip said:


> Out of order? Not working properly, eh? According to whom? You don't think you function properly just because you have an anxious habitual behavioral pattern?


No, because I don't. But if I did, yes, I'd call it a disorder anyway, because that's what it is.


----------



## Death Persuades (Feb 17, 2012)

chip said:


> A lot of doctors and therapists love using the term disorder because it seems more permanent like something is horribly wrong with you when in actuality, there isn't anything wrong with you that can't be fixed anyway. They do this so they can get rich from administering drugs.


Your perception of this topic is severely distorted and obviously biased. No doctor has EVER said all illnesses or disorders are permanent. I used to suffer from depression caused by chemical imbalances and my psychiatrist actually did not want to give me pills. He told me to try eating better and see if that helps. I never started eating better, but that's besides the point. You need to learn about a subject before trying to defend a position, because you obviously have no idea what you're talking about, and even misquote and misinterpret your own source.


----------



## chip (Oct 12, 2011)

josue0098 said:


> No, because I don't. But if I did, yes, I'd call it a disorder anyway, because that's what it is.


Disorder:
*1. * A lack of order or regular arrangement; confusion.
*2. * A breach of civic order or peace; a public disturbance.
*3. * An ailment that affects the function of mind or body: eating disorders and substance abuse.

I have an eating disorder- Therefor, I won't get over it, yet I actually have. 
Lack of order, lack of regular arrangement, and confusion because it goes against being orderly. 

Why? Because society deems it as so. Why consider this a disorder if it's curable? Can you safely say 
"I used to have ocd but now I don't, I won't ever have it again" 

You fear your thoughts, which is why they're obsessive in your brain. You ruminate over them constantly. It is not a disorder, it is simply a bad habit.


----------



## chip (Oct 12, 2011)

josue0098 said:


> Your perception of this topic is severely distorted and obviously biased. No doctor has EVER said all illnesses or disorders are permanent. I used to suffer from depression caused by chemical imbalances and my psychiatrist actually did not want to give me pills. He told me to try eating better and see if that helps. I never started eating better, but that's besides the point. You need to learn about a subject before trying to defend a position, because you obviously have no idea what you're talking about, and even misquote and misinterpret your own source.


Explain how I misquoted, explain how I misinterpret.


----------



## goodgracesbadinfluence (Feb 28, 2011)

chip said:


> Why would anyone need to experiment with their body like that? We are not guinea pigs, we're human beings and even experimenting on guinea pigs bothers me.
> 
> http://jannel.se/psychiatricdrugs.suicide.pdf also, what are the side effects for anti anxiety medications or anti depressants?


The need to experiment with the body is how people figure out what works best for them. For example, I know someone who has been diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia, and this person manages it because the right combination and dosage of drugs has been found. The need to experiment with multiple medications is typically seen for forms of schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, etc. but that's why it's done. 

In all honesty, I don't know the side effects for any medications because I don't take any medications. But I do know side effects do not occur in all cases, and if the side effects DO occur that's one of the signs to stop taking the drug.


----------



## chip (Oct 12, 2011)

goodgracesbadinfluence said:


> The need to experiment with the body is how people figure out what works best for them. For example, I know someone who has been diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia, and this person manages it because the right combination and dosage of drugs has been found. The need to experiment with multiple medications is typically seen for forms of schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, etc. but that's why it's done.
> 
> In all honesty, I don't know the side effects for any medications because I don't take any medications. But I do know side effects do not occur in all cases, and if the side effects DO occur that's one of the signs to stop taking the drug.


Yes but why experiment with poisons? Do you know how addictive benzos are?


----------



## Death Persuades (Feb 17, 2012)

chip said:


> Disorder:
> *1. * A lack of order or regular arrangement; confusion.
> *2. * A breach of civic order or peace; a public disturbance.
> *3. * An ailment that affects the function of mind or body: eating disorders and substance abuse.
> ...


What the fack does society have anything to do what a disorder? OCD is treatable, I just don't have the money or the interest to treat it. And no, I would not need these "evil" pills. There are other methods, but I'm not talking about methods here, merely about definitions. And as point number one of your post said "a lack of order". Things out of order Can and usually do end up being fixed.


----------



## goodgracesbadinfluence (Feb 28, 2011)

chip said:


> Out of order? Not working properly, eh? According to whom? You don't think you function properly just because you have an anxious habitual behavioral pattern?


That's the definition of a disorder.


----------



## chip (Oct 12, 2011)

josue0098 said:


> What the fack does society have anything to do what a disorder? OCD is treatable, I just don't have the money or the interest to treat it. And no, I would not need these "evil" pills. There are other methods, but I'm not talking about methods here, merely about definitions. And as point number one of your post said "a lack of order". Things out of order Can and usually do end up being fixed.


Why do people feel so awful when they have anxiety 'disorder' and take pills for the rest of their lives? They don't think there is a cure because a lot of doctors/therapists deem it as incurable. Ocd is curable. I have obsessive thoughts about suicide, about death, about life being pointless yet when I accept them as only thoughts, they don't scare me or control me in any way because they're only thoughts, they're not me, they don't control me at all.


----------



## goodgracesbadinfluence (Feb 28, 2011)

chip said:


> Yes but why experiment with poisons? Do you know how addictive benzos are?


That's usually only if they're used long-term, which goes back to my point about using the drugs correctly.


----------



## goodgracesbadinfluence (Feb 28, 2011)

chip said:


> Why do people feel so awful when they have anxiety 'disorder' and take pills for the rest of their lives? They don't think there is a cure because a lot of doctors/therapists deem it as incurable. Ocd is curable. I have obsessive thoughts about suicide, about death, about life being pointless yet when I accept them as only thoughts, they don't scare me or control me in any way because they're only thoughts, they're not me, they don't control me at all.


You do realise OCD is an anxiety disorder, right?


----------



## chip (Oct 12, 2011)

goodgracesbadinfluence said:


> That's the definition of a disorder.


Having an anxious habit? You don't think anyone can be orderly with ADHD and high anxiety?


----------



## Death Persuades (Feb 17, 2012)

chip said:


> Why do people feel so awful when they have anxiety 'disorder' and take pills for the rest of their lives? They don't think there is a cure because a lot of doctors/therapists deem it as incurable. Ocd is curable. I have obsessive thoughts about suicide, about death, about life being pointless yet when I accept them as only thoughts, they don't scare me or control me in any way because they're only thoughts, they're not me, they don't control me at all.


Please give me an example where a doctor said all disorders are incurable.


----------



## chip (Oct 12, 2011)

goodgracesbadinfluence said:


> That's usually only if they're used long-term, which goes back to my point about using the drugs correctly.


Actually, it's not about long term at all, those are the side effects of the withdrawals, period.


----------



## goodgracesbadinfluence (Feb 28, 2011)

chip said:


> Having an anxious habit? You don't think anyone can be orderly with ADHD and high anxiety?


Um. What?


----------



## chip (Oct 12, 2011)

goodgracesbadinfluence said:


> You do realise OCD is an anxiety disorder, right?


Yes.


----------



## Death Persuades (Feb 17, 2012)

chip said:


> Having an anxious habit? You don't think anyone can be orderly with ADHD and high anxiety?


Are you serious? You seem to be confusing things here. What does having an anxiety disorder have to do with being orderly?


----------



## chip (Oct 12, 2011)

goodgracesbadinfluence said:


> Um. What?


You are stating that what I explained is a disorder. Disorder means not being orderly, being confused but so many people with these 'disorders' live orderly lives, if not more. They seem almost like super humans.


----------



## goodgracesbadinfluence (Feb 28, 2011)

chip said:


> Actually, it's not about long term at all, those are the side effects of the withdrawals, period.


Well as I said, I don't know too much about drugs, but it still all boils down to using the drugs properly.


----------

