# The odd ethics of respecting your elders.



## Morpheus83

@fourtines

Maybe the real problem here is the binary itself and cultural-dependent associations (youth=sexual 'attractiveness'; 'intelligence'--as in absence of 'senility'; sense of 'entitlement'; etc... versus seniority='wisdom' from life experience; 'ugliness'; 'frailty', etc...) 

I think that attributing 'special' qualities or characteristics to either group (even when we don't explicitly demonise the 'other') potentially implies that something/someone else is 'inferior' in some way (with underlying beliefs based on sweeping generalisations and informed by cultural anxieties). I've seen my share of young people who're 'dumb', 'unattractive', etc... and older people who're 'unproductive', 'foolish' while lacking life experience, self awareness, etc... 

I'm not sure how it's possible to avoid either extreme if the problem is the binary itself. Maybe the only way to avoid any extreme is to interrogate the association/s by having more inclusive (and non-stereotypical) media representations of people/groups and by making sure that everybody has equal access to social services (easier said than done, I know). 

I don't disagree that many young people are rude, but nobody has a monopoly on 'rudeness' simply because of their age or social status. I know that underlying 'anti-seniority' beliefs in 'youth-worshipping' cultures make it harder to show basic social and 'institutional' courtesy, but I don't think the answer (from some responses in this thread) lies in promoting a cultural backlash that demonises 'young' people while rationalising away atrocities or socially inappropriate behaviours committed by older people.


----------



## Inveniet

Eh universal respect for elders are a relic of the past.
When you think about it all the respect for the elders was about was that in a tribe that struggled to survive.
The elders where the encyclopedias one turned to to get advice on stuff.
Their knowlegde was the difference between survial and certain death.
Fast track to today with the internet and overcrowded multimillion cities, 
you see that that elder respect is outdated and severely misplaced.
No noe should be *respected or disrespected* purely by their age.
It goes both ways in the youth vs old debate.
And the rudest stance is generalizing a whole generation to be nothing more than trash.
Trash that should bow and scrape over some ancient survival mechanism.


----------



## Moss Icon

walking tourist said:


> But blind obedience... no, that's always a bad idea, regardless of the age of the person who is demanding that sort of obedience.


Absolutely right.


The default to me is the Golden Rule: do as you would be done by/treat others as you would want to be treated. As such I will be courteous and respectful to anyone I meet unless given good reason not to be. Age has absolutely nothing to do with it.

The issue with one's elders is generally about obedience. In childhood, it's often necessary for us to be obedient, because we lack the life-experience and rational thinking skills to navigate certain scenarios and must defer to those who do have those things. As the mind develops, it goes through stages - some of those stages are problematic and not conducive to rationale and sense.

But yeah, what walking tourist said about blind obedience is bang-on. That kinda thinking leads to "I'm old, respect me" - a sense of entitlement based merely on how long you've been alive and with no meaningful reason behind it. The mere fact that such people think they deserve entitlement illustrates to me how undeserving of respect they actually are. 

When people use an arbitrary, inherently valueless facet of their being to demand respect or as a source of pride, it's generally because they have done nothing to respect or be proud of.


----------



## Thalassa

hornet said:


> Eh universal respect for elders are a relic of the past.
> When you think about it all the respect for the elders was about was that in a tribe that struggled to survive.
> The elders where the encyclopedias one turned to to get advice on stuff.
> Their knowlegde was the difference between survial and certain death.
> Fast track to today with the internet and overcrowded multimillion cities,
> you see that that elder respect is outdated and severely misplaced.
> No noe should be *respected or disrespected* purely by their age.
> It goes both ways in the youth vs old debate.
> And the rudest stance is generalizing a whole generation to be nothing more than trash.
> Trash that should bow and scrape over some ancient survival mechanism.


Those encyclopedia people are still important actually.

I mean, I was thinking about the follies of young Christopher McCandless living in a dream bus in the wild with a bag of rice, and ignoring that rangers were just four miles away in Denali national park whilst perishing of rabit starvation, and arrogant delusional childish middle aged man Timothy Treadwell also ignoring the advice of rangers and naturalists and bear biologists, only to find himself the first person eaten by a bear in Kumai national park in 85 years....

In a sense, they both disrespected their elders so to speak, though Treadwell was in his forties...they ignored the ancient wisdom of Alaskan tribes that are thousands of years old, the wisdom of a nearly hundred year old park service, and any rational survivalist common sense, and they DIED.

There is a rational historic basis for respecting elders or teachers, but I do know in some tribal societies, respect for all life, including the animals they ate, was a definitive value our culture is not so good with.

Though Christopher McCandless and Timothy Treadwell had obvious gifts to share with the world, and were both sensitive nature lovers, listening to their elders would have probably found them alive and well to more productively share those gifts.


----------



## xisnotx

Respect your elders. 

That's like...fundamental. 

Think of it like this...

Imagine you're 80, and some 16 year old kid is going to try to tell you how "the world works". 

You're just going to laugh. 

Respect your elders. They know what they're talking about.


----------



## Mender

What's strange about the advancement of generations is that morals and ethics themselves appear to be changing.

One major factor of this, as the OP has pointed out, is the concept of respect. In older generations, tradition has it that respect is conferred upon those of a status (e.g. the elderly, the political leaders, the religious leaders, etc.); in younger generations, the concept of earning respect is applied more to an individual (and their accomplishments) than the group they belong to.

I suspect this change began in earnest with the late Baby Boomers and early members of Generation X; it was around the time of the Vietnam War and the impeachment of Nixon that the concept of distrust of public officials became more widespread than it had during previous times of civil unrest. As a result of cultural biases related to the performance of politicians, over the years people began to see more and more people of given statuses abusing their authority or fame. As a result, younger generations have, for the most part, decided to revere only those people who merit reverence. Ironically, those most opposed to this ideal are typically the members of the generations that instigated these cultural changes.

(This is conjecture on my part, by the way. I'm sorry if I haven't made that clear!)

The challenge between members of different generations can be resolved through communication that transcends the generation gap. Older folks would do well to remember that the kids of today _do_ have people of status that they look up to, but merely go about it in a different way. Meanwhile, young people should consider that when their elders say "respect your elders", they are really trying to say that respectable people can be found in any generation, and that the older generations are often overlooked.


----------



## ENTJudgement

Life goes something like...

Baby > Child > Teen > Young Adult > Adult > Adult at prime > Adult on decline > Old > Older > Dead.

So it summarizes to...

Baby > Adult > Baby > Death.


----------

