# checking others' opinion for confirmation: Te?



## Allostasis (Feb 2, 2021)

TeamPB said:


> I thought it was what people meant by "external sources": an idea is more likely to be right if expressed by some expert or 586 people, a movie is more likely to be great if a lot of people like and recommend it (I'm well aware of the limits of such a logic but as far as the very first example I gave is concerned...it happens to me, yeah)
> 
> And this whole "shit, I couldn't do that" when considering actions to do, as if it was wrong (even when it's not), it shows a certain concern with my inner sense of morals...Fi.
> 
> If you're right, it was described by Jung as a Fe thing to do, that would mean it's a tie: one Fe thing, one Fi thing, and I'd have to dig deeper...again.





> an idea is more likely to be right if expressed by some expert or 586 people


Maybe, but you don't seem to care about that when you decide to confirm your opinion.
You need "emotional reassurance" that you didn't say something "stupid" that would make you look "stupid".
Your argument for Fi doesn't make sense.


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## TeamPB (Aug 10, 2017)

Allostasis said:


> Maybe, but you don't seem to care about that when you decide to confirm your opinion.
> You need "emotional reassurance" that you didn't say something "stupid" that would make you look "stupid".
> Your argument for Fi doesn't make sense.


...this is probably that, indeed. A fear of looking dumb, like I said somewhere else, recently. Or maybe I'm really unsure. Like when you see something, you think: "...hey that wasn't so impressive" without being really sure, confident about it, until you see others shouting "BOOOO THAT SUCKED"

About the Fi argument...as a Fi user, even if it's only your tertiary function...don't you consider doing certain things only to realize it would make you feel bad, as if it was wrong? Even if you try to rationalize it, the thought doesn't go away that easily and it may not disappear at all? That's what I was talking about. A certain inner morality that tells you "this is wrong and you don't want to feel bad so just do something else", isn't that by definition Fi? I know Fe users (well, especially high Fe users) can be very moral, but that would probably be because of their education or the way they know others would react to their actions, not because of some "moral instinct". If my very own sense of right and wrong comes very quickly when thinking about what to do, wouldn't that simply be Fi? Is it something else...?


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## Allostasis (Feb 2, 2021)

TeamPB said:


> ...this is probably that, indeed. A fear of looking dumb, like I said somewhere else, recently. Or maybe I'm really unsure. Like when you see something, you think: "...hey that wasn't so impressive" without being really sure, confident about it, until you see others shouting "BOOOO THAT SUCKED"
> 
> About the Fi argument...as a Fi user, even if it's only your tertiary function...don't you consider doing certain things only to realize it would make you feel bad, as if it was wrong? Even if you try to rationalize it, the thought doesn't go away that easily and it may not disappear at all? That's what I was talking about. A certain inner morality that tells you "this is wrong and you don't want to feel bad so just do something else", isn't that by definition Fi? I know Fe users (well, especially high Fe users) can be very moral, but that would probably be because of their education or the way they know others would react to their actions, not because of some "moral instinct". If my very own sense of right and wrong comes very quickly when thinking about what to do, wouldn't that simply be Fi? Is it something else...?





> If my very own sense of right and wrong comes very quickly when thinking about what to do, wouldn't that simply be Fi? Is it something else...?


Yes, this implies Feeling function as well. What you described before can be unhealthy Fi too, it's not like introverted people are these independent think tanks that roll over the opinions of others.


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## TeamPB (Aug 10, 2017)

Allostasis said:


> Yes, this implies Feeling function as well. What you described before can be unhealthy Fi too, it's not like introverted people are these independent think tanks that roll over the opinions of others.


Right. Tough situation huh? I don't know what to think here.


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## Allostasis (Feb 2, 2021)

TeamPB said:


> Right. Tough situation huh? I don't know what to think here.


But it should be clear enough now to answer your original question.


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## TeamPB (Aug 10, 2017)

Allostasis said:


> But it should be clear enough now to answer your original question.


This one, at least, maybe. Even if I'll probably need more opinions. Or do some research myself. That'd certainly be a great initiative.


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## TheUnnecessaryEvil (Mar 28, 2021)

Te is just the persuit of competence within the tribe. 

Having a lot of soundboards is a part of that, so yes.


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## TeamPB (Aug 10, 2017)

TheUnnecessaryEvil said:


> Te is just the persuit of competence within the tribe.
> 
> Having a lot of soundboards is a part of that, so yes.


The pursuit of competence within the tribe...?
Thinking "with" the tribe?


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## Allostasis (Feb 2, 2021)

TheUnnecessaryEvil said:


> Te is just the persuit of competence within the tribe.


Not really.


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## TheUnnecessaryEvil (Mar 28, 2021)

TeamPB said:


> The pursuit of competence within the tribe...?
> Thinking "with" the tribe?


That is what I just said.



Allostasis said:


> Not really.


What's your definition that I'm sure is completely contrary to reality?


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## TeamPB (Aug 10, 2017)

TheUnnecessaryEvil said:


> That is what I just said.
> 
> 
> 
> What's your definition that I'm sure is completely contrary to reality?


duh, thanks, I just wanted to know if we were thinking of the same thing.


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## Allostasis (Feb 2, 2021)

TheUnnecessaryEvil said:


> What's your definition


I am using what Jung said when talked about Thinking function and extraverted thinking type specifically.


> I'm sure is completely contrary to reality?


Now that was amusing. 
Are you C.S Joseph fan or "objective personality" zealot by chance?


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## TeamPB (Aug 10, 2017)

TheUnnecessaryEvil said:


> That is what I just said.
> 
> 
> 
> What's your definition that I'm sure is completely contrary to reality?





Allostasis said:


> I am using what Jung said when talked about Thinking function and extraverted thinking type specifically.
> 
> Now that was amusing.
> Are you C.S Joseph fan or "objective personality" zealot by chance?


YES
FIGHT FOR MY ENTERTAINMENT


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## TheUnnecessaryEvil (Mar 28, 2021)

Allostasis said:


> I am using what Jung said when talked about Thinking function and extraverted thinking type specifically.
> 
> Now that was amusing.
> Are you C.S Joseph fan or "objective personality" zealot by chance?


Which was, specifically?

I don't touch Chase's shit with a ten foot pole anymore. I'm with Objective now.


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## Allostasis (Feb 2, 2021)

TheUnnecessaryEvil said:


> I'm with Objective now.


I see, that figures.

You can download the book yourself, it is organized well enough for you to find the relevant section.
I don't feel like spoon-feeding its contents to you or proving anything, you seem like a complete waste of my time so far.


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## TeamPB (Aug 10, 2017)

Allostasis said:


> I see, that figures.
> 
> You can download the book yourself, it is organized well enough for you to find the relevant section.
> I don't feel like spoon-feeding its contents to you or proving anything, you seem like a complete waste of my time so far.


Man you're harsh.


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## TheUnnecessaryEvil (Mar 28, 2021)

Allostasis said:


> I see, that figures.
> 
> You can download the book yourself, it is organized well enough for you to find the relevant section.
> I don't feel like spoon-feeding its contents to you or proving anything, you seem like a complete waste of my time so far.


If you want to get your point across then you outta start "spoon-feeding" me. I'm not reading a whole damn book for tid-bits.

Otherwise I think I'll just keep saying what I've been saying.


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## OnceUponAPrincess (Mar 23, 2021)

TheUnnecessaryEvil said:


> Te is just the pursuit of competence within the tribe.
> 
> Having a lot of soundboards is a part of that, so yes.


I was going to say I don't do that as a Ti user generally, but further my understanding of Te is similar to what you state here. Societal consensus means a lot to both Te and Fe. One for what it accepts as facts, the other for what is right and wrong. Fe and Te is interested in the opinions of generally recognized experts while we Ti types question who and what an expert even is. If I had a friend, professor, acquittance, or what have you that I respect and personally acknowledge as highly knowledgeable in a field I might seek their opinion on something, but consensus means little to me.


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## TheUnnecessaryEvil (Mar 28, 2021)

OnceUponAPrincess said:


> I was going to say I don't do that as a Ti user generally, but further my understanding of Te is similar to what you state here. Societal consensus means a lot to both Te and Fe. One for what it accepts as facts, the other for what is right and wrong. Fe and Te is interested in the opinions of generally recognized experts while we Ti types question who and what an expert even is. If I had a friend, professor, acquittance, or what have you that I respect and personally acknowledge as highly knowledgeable in a field I might seek their opinion on something, but consensus means little to me.


Exactly. As a Ti/Fe user, your aim is to to better the world through your personalization of your knowledge and logic.

Te/Fi users seek to better themselves via methods learned from the external world.


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## TeamPB (Aug 10, 2017)

OnceUponAPrincess said:


> I was going to say I don't do that as a Ti user generally, but further my understanding of Te is similar to what you state here. Societal consensus means a lot to both Te and Fe. One for what it accepts as facts, the other for what is right and wrong. Fe and Te is interested in the opinions of generally recognized experts while we Ti types question who and what an expert even is. If I had a friend, professor, acquittance, or what have you that I respect and personally acknowledge as highly knowledgeable in a field I might seek their opinion on something, but consensus means little to me.


Hey, what's your opinion on the question I asked? Te since it's not really about moral rights and wrongs but ''logic'', ''facts''?


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## TeamPB (Aug 10, 2017)

Fru2 said:


> Exactly. But not necessarily old man, it can be the kid that asks why 1 plus 1 is two, until they incorporate it into their logical process.


I guess I can take some time to think deeply about something, see if it makes sense to me...but I'm not sure if it was always the case. Also, if I use Fi to make decisions but use Ti to think if shit makes sense to me, how am I supposed to determine what function I use? Could Fi adopt Ti aspects (=adopting Ti-like priorities)?


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## Fru2 (Aug 21, 2018)

TeamPB said:


> I guess I can take some time to think deeply about something, see if it makes sense to me...but I'm not sure if it was always the case. Also, if I use Fi to make decisions but use Ti to think if shit makes sense to me, how am I supposed to determine what function I use? Could Fi adopt Ti aspects (=adopting Ti-like priorities)?


No, as the two contradict each other. What could be happening is the accumulation of Te though it's very archaic and so needs external inputs in order to reach logical conclusions.


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## TeamPB (Aug 10, 2017)

Fru2 said:


> No, as the two contradict each other. What could be happening is the accumulation of Te though it's very archaic and so needs external inputs in order to reach logical conclusions.


External inputs? Your typical (as I heard looking for others' opinion is not exactly a Te thing...to my surprise) Te priorities: studies, numbers, stats, charts...?


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## TeamPB (Aug 10, 2017)

Fru2 said:


> No, as the two contradict each other. What could be happening is the accumulation of Te though it's very archaic and so needs external inputs in order to reach logical conclusions.


Also you mean what I see as Ti could just be Te reaching conclusions...but thanks to external inputs?


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## Fru2 (Aug 21, 2018)

TeamPB said:


> External inputs? Your typical (as I heard looking for others' opinion is not exactly a Te thing...to my surprise) Te priorities: studies, numbers, stats, charts...?


Te in its fully conscious state has no need to ask for validation as it's an internal mechanism that uses the other functions for it's sake, therefore having no need for external vaidation of its process.


TeamPB said:


> Also you mean what I see as Ti could just be Te reaching conclusions...but thanks to external inputs?


Yes. 
See, this whole thread is basically you trying to validate commonly shared logical processes, this showcases a lower consciousness of Te. A Te dom wouldn't ever do this as they naturally reach conclusions that are in line with the commonly held logical process. They might be overly confident though, in which case they'll need to be challenged by perspectives they haven't considered up to that point.


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## TeamPB (Aug 10, 2017)

Fru2 said:


> Te in its fully conscious state has no need to ask for validation as it's an internal mechanism that uses the other functions for it's sake, therefore having no need for external vaidation of its process.
> 
> Yes.
> See, this whole thread is basically you trying to validate commonly shared logical processes, this showcases a lower consciousness of Te. A Te dom wouldn't ever do this as they naturally reach conclusions that are in line with the commonly held logical process. They might be overly confident though, in which case they'll need to be challenged by perspectives they haven't considered up to that point.


Me? Trying to validate commonly shared logical processes...? I'm not sure I understand.


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## Fru2 (Aug 21, 2018)

TeamPB said:


> Me? Trying to validate commonly shared logical processes...? I'm not sure I understand.


In this case the commonly shared logical process is function use. You're trying to understand how functions come into play and how to define a function andjudge it as different from the other.


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## TeamPB (Aug 10, 2017)

Fru2 said:


> In this case the commonly shared logical process is function use. You're trying to understand how functions come into play and how to define a function andjudge it as different from the other.


"You're trying to understand how functions come into play and how to define a function andjudge it as different from the other"
I don't remember much of this thread, unfortunately... all I can really remember is me being stubborn and having a few guys mad at me because of that lol

How would a Te dom naturally reach conclusions in line with...the """commonly shared logical process"""? What would you, a Te dom, do, if you were me in this very situation?


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## goodvibe (Aug 23, 2013)

TeamPB said:


> so I looked what I posted before that and checked the number of likes I received to see if I really said something fucking dumb...turns out I received 50 likes but also this isn't a very good way to measure the relevancy of what you say.


It actually can be an excellent measure. Group consensus (if not manipulated) is a good way of gaining insight when you are unsure of something. It is usually (although not flawless) better and less corrupted than if you have a panel of a few so-called experts authoritatively asserting truth and reality for everyone.

But, then again, that is my preference (so I am biased), but I think I can prove it as well...but that would be a whole other thread.

Game shows like "Who Wants to Be a Millionaire" use this same "wisdom of the crowd" tactic as an option for the contestant to come up with the correct answer. Amazon, of course, utilizes this with their feedback system (although granted it can be very manipulated, so not a perfect system). Most online forums or platforms have some sort of feedback or rating system, although they are only as good as the user base. 

Anyway, this measure is usually valued in those who use Ti/ Fe or Fe /Ti. All types will use this method, but Te / Fi and Fi / Te prefer ethos (credibility of experts) over the wisdom of their peers, or lack thereof.

Anyway, the point is that anyone and everyone checks to see feedback on themselves, others, or their consumer products. It is all around us for a reason, but others are less inclined to value the crowd's wisdom over the expert's, and this is very much related to the cognitive functions.


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## TeamPB (Aug 10, 2017)

goodvibe said:


> It actually can be an excellent measure. Group consensus (if not manipulated) is a good way of gaining insight when you are unsure of something. It is usually (although not flawless) better and less corrupted than if you have a panel of a few so-called experts authoritatively asserting truth and reality for everyone.
> 
> But, then again, that is my preference (so I am biased), but I think I can prove it as well...but that would be a whole other thread.
> 
> ...


Although I highly doubt I'm Fe dom...or a Fe user at all, I kinda think it could indicate inferior Ti. Being unsure about the validity of your own, internal logic, reasonings, using that of others (Fe?) to compensate.

Anyway, thanks for your answer, man! I don't really know how I feel about experts and their answers...technically, they know more about certain subjects than more people. But even experts have their flaws. You could ask an expert what's wrong with something, have their diagnosis...and find out later the problem was somewhere else. It's not impossible. Even if I find it logical to trust them, it's also reasonable to say they won't always be right. And I rarely find myself looking for their opinion in particular. I think about it myself or...just go with others' opinions if I'm unsure, insecure about something.


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## goodvibe (Aug 23, 2013)

TeamPB said:


> Although I highly doubt I'm Fe dom...or a Fe user at all, I kinda think it could indicate inferior Ti. Being unsure about the validity of your own, internal logic, reasonings, using that of others (Fe?) to compensate.


Just curious, why would you doubt Fe / Ti as a possibility? What type(s) do you think you are? Are you trying to figure it out? If so, ask yourself how do you usually learn? By Te or Ti methods?


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## TeamPB (Aug 10, 2017)

goodvibe said:


> Just curious, why would you doubt Fe / Ti as a possibility? What type(s) do you think you are? Are you trying to figure it out? If so, ask yourself how do you usually learn? By Te or Ti methods?


Right now? Any NP type. It's true I consider Fi a lot because of my inner morals I consider very quickly when I think about doing something...and the fact I'm pretty aware of my own feelings (although I guess I can only remark it when others are down? sometimes I worry about my mother and her feelings, as if something was "off"...but at the same time, I'm not really into comforting others so it's just awkward). 
I used to consider Ti a lot...but maybe more when it comes to some "analyses". And even then, I think I'm a little too scatter-brained, I feel like I'm a little too slow and bad at internally organizing my ideas, thoughts and logic.


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## goodvibe (Aug 23, 2013)

TeamPB said:


> Right now? Any NP type. It's true I consider Fi a lot because of my *inner morals* I consider very quickly when I think about doing something...and the fact I'm pretty aware of my own feelings (although I guess I can only remark it when others are down? sometimes I worry about my mother and her feelings, as if something was "off"...but at the same time, I'm not really into comforting others so it's just awkward).
> I used to consider Ti a lot...but maybe more when it comes to some "analyses". And even then, I think I'm a little too scatter-brained, I feel like I'm a little too slow and bad at internally organizing my ideas, thoughts and logic.


For me, feelings can be the hardest stuff to figure out.

Anyway, Ti/Fe users also have inner morals. This may not be the best explanation, but if your morals come from what you think is best for the group or collective whole, using what you believe to be objective logic (instead of your feelings) then you might be a Ti/Fe user. It might take quite a bit of self-reflection to discover what you are because, again, feelings are complicated.

With Fi/Te, I largely disagree with the MBTI descriptions of what this function pair actually is. I always hear, "personal values mean you are Fi", and that is not always the case. It depends on what the underlying motive is, what is driving your "personal values", not that you have them.


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## aurora-rosa (Apr 11, 2021)

worrying about the opinions of others is Fe and Fi.

a Fe-dom would be concerned with what friends and relatives think about her, they tend to be telling their friends about their life.

With Fi-doms this produces a shy introvert with a propensity for social anxiety.


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## TeamPB (Aug 10, 2017)

goodvibe said:


> For me, feelings can be the hardest stuff to figure out.
> 
> Anyway, Ti/Fe users also have inner morals. This may not be the best explanation, but if your morals come from what you think is best for the group or collective whole, using what you believe to be objective logic (instead of your feelings) then you might be a Ti/Fe user. It might take quite a bit of self-reflection to discover what you are because, again, feelings are complicated.
> 
> With Fi/Te, I largely disagree with the MBTI descriptions of what this function pair actually is. I always hear, "personal values mean you are Fi", and that is not always the case. It depends on what the underlying motive is, what is driving your "personal values", not that you have them.


Let's say apparently Fi's morals has to do with how one personally feel about something. I think it's my case. I know some things may not be seen as bad by others, but for some reason, they still bother me and I avoid them, I don't do them. I guess I tend to consider what I feel is right. Maybe Fe users wouldn't bother judging such things, except if it goes against everyone's values or...well it's just too outrageous (killing, raping, kidnapping, bullying etc...). So in the end, I guess those "values" are here to tell me "can you make this choice without regret? think about yourself, man" which I suppose is Fi.

That's my one main reason to believe I'm a Fi user. Now xNTP? I still see it as a possibility but let's be realistic, I doubt they would care about such things.


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