# NT: Calling all debaters...!



## Oldlady (Sep 18, 2009)

As you can see I'm an ENTP. I'm supposed to be good at debate.


I've been doing Lincoln Douglas debate and, to put it mildly, I suck. I just finished a tournament where I won 1 out of 3. Didn't even make it to the quarter finals.

So I wonder, what makes a good debater? It must be something beyond logical arguments and refutations. I make good points in real life, and I've never been unable to locate the logical fallacies of my opponents, so I doubt that I'm intellectually incapable. I'm assuming that my failure can be attributed to:

1. nerves (makes it difficult to focus on what my opponent is saying and to construct my rebuttal)
2. lack of confidence/ passion/ aggression
3. poor articulation
4. lack of knowledge on how to structure cases (relating value, criterion, and value criterion)
5. poor presentation (did not memorize case, didn't look judges in the eye)

How do I improve on these fronts? Most of what I do in every day life is no pressure logical discussion. 

I just keep remembering the judge at my last debate. When I shook his hand (after), he turned his head away so that he didn't have to look me in the eye. I must have been embarrassingly terrible (either that, or he's anti-social. But I think I'm just a failure.)


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## Nearsification (Jan 3, 2010)

Nerves.- Who needs nerves. Your there and you need it! Pretend like there saying 2+2=Fish and your trying to prove them wrong

Confindence- I am not sure about this. Try to make sure your right. Make sure your 100% accurate at all cost.

Articulation- I don't even know what this is

Lack of knowledge- Decent research should be enough to fix this

Presentation- Study your subject. Find a part of this which interest you and home in on it. it should come out fine.


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## Lucretius (Sep 10, 2009)

tealpenguin326 said:


> As you can see I'm an ENTP. I'm supposed to be good at debate.
> 
> 
> I've been doing Lincoln Douglas debate and, to put it mildly, I suck. I just finished a tournament where I won 1 out of 3. Didn't even make it to the quarter finals.
> ...


I've only had a few debates in my life in which there was a live audience.
That said, I remember what caused me to do well: forgetting about the audience. In the beginning, I would be all nervous and stumble over myself...but once the topic started to heat up, my focus brought me back into the game.


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## FiNe SiTe (Dec 11, 2009)

tealpenguin326 said:


> 1. nerves -* It can happen to anyone, it just depends on how much you showed.*
> 2. lack of confidence/ passion/ aggression - *If the judges were looking for that then........... *
> 3. poor articulation - *Don't know*
> 4. lack of knowledge on how to structure cases - *Don't know*
> 5. poor presentation (did not memorize case, didn't look judges in the eye) -* If it was part of the rules then probably yes.*


I actually don't really know much about these debating competitions.

If your type description says your a good debater, it doesn't necessarily mean you
are.


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## Oldlady (Sep 18, 2009)

fine site said:


> if your type description says your a good debater doesn't necessarily mean you
> are.


what?!?!!!


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## GreenCoyote (Nov 2, 2009)

*check out the Ne section. ENFP or ENTP*

I really like this...



FiNe SiTe said:


> If there is anything the nonconformist hates worse than conformist,
> it's another nonconformist who doesn't
> conform to the prevailing standard of nonconformity.
> Bill Vaughan.


I just don't like sides.
I don't like battles.

unless they are video game fighting ! 

love love... Dead or alive 3 for Xbox


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## FiNe SiTe (Dec 11, 2009)

tealpenguin326 said:


> what?!?!!!


 
??? 

Thanks......now you have confused me. lol


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## Kevinaswell (May 6, 2009)

tealpenguin326 said:


> As you can see I'm an ENTP. I'm supposed to be good at debate.
> 
> 
> I've been doing Lincoln Douglas debate and, to put it mildly, I suck. I just finished a tournament where I won 1 out of 3. Didn't even make it to the quarter finals.
> ...


None of those things have anything at all to do whatsoever with any argument you are making. (By this, I mean things that strictly apply to 'debate')

Fuck all those aspect, the argument is the only point.

Maybe focus just there?

Easier said than done...


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## Oldlady (Sep 18, 2009)

Kevinaswell said:


> None of those things have anything at all to do whatsoever with any argument you are making. (By this, I mean things that strictly apply to 'debate')
> 
> Fuck all those aspect, the argument is the only point.
> 
> ...


I've tried... but I've noticed that in competitive debate it's all about confidence and presentation. I've debated against people whose points were a little extreme to the point of being illogical ("We should NEVER sacrifice rights EVER!") yet because they delivered them with passion I was made out to be a destroyer of liberties.

Yeah, I lost to that guy.

I tried to be logical. When they said, "Do you think the law can be wrong?" I said yes, even though I was defending the law, because it's TRUE. It doesn't even weaken my argument much, considering my opponents defendant (the jury) aren't always right either. However, my opponent stated over and over again that this was a "concession". I never tried to claim that the law was always right in the first place! How can this be a concession? Yet he repeated it forcefully, and I believe that the judge took it to be so.


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## oops (Aug 13, 2009)

tealpenguin326 said:


> As you can see I'm an ENTP. I'm supposed to be good at debate.
> 
> 
> I've been doing Lincoln Douglas debate and, to put it mildly, I suck. I just finished a tournament where I won 1 out of 3. Didn't even make it to the quarter finals.
> ...


 have some alcohol and since your entp you might be like me and act like... well awesome. So then try to recognize your atitude and why its there, and try to maintain it when your sober? not like sloshed drunk, like maybe just drunk drunk.


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## Kevinaswell (May 6, 2009)

The most beneficial points I've made during debates are those that point out the hypocrisies of my opponents message.

The BEST thing you can use to defeat someone's argument is their own argument.

Save YOUR argument for after.


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## Oldlady (Sep 18, 2009)

That IS true. Every argument has a flaw... so focus on the flaws of their argument and you win!


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## Nueman (Mar 3, 2010)

Unfortunately debating is one part intellectual and one part persuasive.

Sounds to me like the first part is firing fine, it is the second part that will trip NT's up.

First rule: no one likes someone who is arrogant, be humble

Second rule: Smile.

Third rule: talk to some NF about this as I am tapped out.

That is about all the people skills I have developed


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## inservio uberfrau (Mar 13, 2010)

study logical fallacies to understand when they are applied, and how to rebut them...Aristotle is a good place to start


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