# As a community, it is our duty to clear up the MBTI generalizations



## Oprah (Feb 5, 2014)

If there is anyone out there like me, they do their test and get something that makes them sound incredibly boring.

with comments like -
"You likely have very traditional views"
"You hate change"
"You are probably bad at grasping new theories"
"You are a doormat"
"You are not creative"
"You strive to conform to societal conventions wherever possible"

and then it says - 
"You should work as an accountant" 
"You should stay away from _*the "thinky" jobs"*_
etc.

ummm........ okay? Thanks for making me feel stupid. Now I'm going to go force myself to be an N and lie from here on forwards on my MBTI tests so that I don't get the same thing again.



And this is likely something that happens to a lot of people. Can we please squash the stereotype that "N means you're creative, and S means you're not," ?  I think the misconception starts with the descriptions online. 



I just don't appreciate how there is so much bias out there - _"S means you're narrow minded, and N means you have a more open mind"_ is something I've actually seen people say... like what even? 

We ALL have T, F, S and N somewhere in our function stack. We're all capable of thinking, feeling, sensing and intuiting. We all have strengths in those areas. 


Just because your MBTI code has an N in it instead of an S doesn't make you bad at seeing details, and just because you scored S doesn't mean that you're a bad problem solver. 


I dunno... I think that if we squash these stereotypes, we can save a lot of people from future confusion when they're told - "If you're a type _ _ _ _, then you have very traditionalist views!"


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## Life.Is.A.Game (Nov 5, 2010)

@UglierBetty, I completely agree. I especially don't agree with the ENFP description, I know 3 ENFPs in real life, all 3 ACT differently, but I can see the functions are there. 

ENFPs are not running around looking at butterflies and singing kumbaya. They're actually one of the smartest, most dedicated and driven people that I know. 

NF description "the dreamer"? I don't like that at all. It sounds like you're just day dreaming all day and we know that's not true at all about NFs. 

Also ISTPs like motorcycles, fast cars and knives. And also they can fix cars. lol. Stereotypes suck and it's making it very difficult for me to know my own type because they keep coming to my mind.


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## redneck15 (Mar 21, 2011)

UglierBetty said:


> If there is anyone out there like me, they do their test and get something that makes them sound incredibly boring.
> 
> with comments like -
> "You likely have very traditional views"
> ...


Well, I think the descriptions are written by N types, so they have a hard time understanding what a good S description would be. MBTI is something which is of less interest to many, but not all, S types. Still, I agree the descriptions are pretty bad.


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## Raawx (Oct 9, 2013)

@UglierBetty, the ever enterprising Kantian.


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## candiemerald (Jan 26, 2014)

UglierBetty said:


> If there is anyone out there like me, they do their test and get something that makes them sound incredibly boring.
> 
> with comments like -
> "You likely have very traditional views"
> ...


Yes!
My father is an xSxJ, and he's extremely into theory, science, theology, etc. That's not just limited to the Ns. I'm an INFJ and I'm not weepy, irrational, and controlled by my emotions. Too much generalization going around, and it's irritating...


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## Octavian (Nov 24, 2013)

I've always been into art and the majority of my teachers were INFPs. This semester I'm taking a drawing course and the professor is a (confirmed) ISFP. The best art teacher I've ever had. She forces me to take an S approach to drawing which has caused me to progress very quickly. I went through her portfolio and her paintings and they are far more impressive than the art of my past INFP teachers. 

I'm a business and administration major (computer science minor) and my professors are TERRIBLE. The majority are ENFJ and ENTP for some reason. One of my professors is an ISTJ and he is the only one that gives lectures and notes that are useful. When you ask him a question you don't get a random Fe-military story that's supposedly related to your question (the ENFJ) or a tangent that's nearly impossible to follow (the ENTP.) He answers it completely and thoroughly. It's apparent that his knowledge base is very specialized and that he is able to quickly change his approach to teaching if you aren't getting it.

So far as being taught things, I prefer NTJ and SJ depending on the subject, but I can definitely appreciate the sensors in general.


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## mushr00m (May 23, 2011)

There's these threads aimed at cleaning things up and for everyone of these, say 2 opposing threads reinforcing stereotypes that come up. Seems some people enjoy partaking in the latter. Enjoy battling that 1!


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## Mammon (Jul 12, 2012)

It's futile, you're better off just letting it be.

I've vowed to never more go out of my way to prove myself to people. You look down on me? Good. I will not look up for you.

Applying the above equation to everything has made life easier. I generally try to avoid making a point onto other people, since it's in friction with rule number one.

Right now you are letting others tell you what you are and aren't, and that's ok. While I have now only started this particular part of self growth, you are on your way to do the same but first you are having to go through the part which will want to 'fight the system' so to speak. Nevertheless, eventually you'll come to realise that the system is doing the same as you are and at last you'll see the inanity of this game and call it quits. Setting another step forward in never ending self growth  

I'm not just talking about MBTI/CFs btw, just to be clear. 

Good luck ~


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## I Kant (Jan 19, 2013)

UglierBetty said:


> If there is anyone out there like me, they do their test and get something that makes them sound incredibly boring.
> 
> with comments like -
> "You likely have very traditional views"
> ...


The answers that clarify the generalizations have been given.

And largely ignored.

If you can search for them, you can find them.

And be unable to identify them from the erroneous answers.

Hahahahahahahaha.


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## Psychopomp (Oct 3, 2012)

Life.Is.A.Game said:


> ENFPs are not running around looking at butterflies and singing kumbaya. They're actually one of the smartest, most dedicated and driven people that I know.


They actually are running after butterflies, though they aren't singnig kumbaya. Smart, yes, dedicated? Well, they try. Driven? Well, driven like a sprinter... that is, like they know they gotta take it at a sprint because in about a week, it's back to the butterflies.

Yes, this is true. 

@_UglierBetty_ - I agree, but on the flipside we face something perhaps worse? The key is taking capability out of it and showing the negative implications of some of these N types. That is the problem. Descriptions are N biased. 

For example, ISTJ is the best because they can incorporate Ne, understand it, indulge in it, then also have their life in order. If descriptions were as baised toward S as they were toward N, that is what they'd say about ISTJ. Doctors, lawyers, accountants who could be writers or philosophers, but are just so good at logistics that they are like ENFPs but better. 

The descriptions fail to mention that ENFPs -suck- at logistics and can't do it. It's not that ENFPs are too cool to be accountants, it is that they would genuinely be terrible at it. Does that mean they don't love getting on and doing their personal finances? That they suck at doing their taxes? I make my ENFP wife do taxes and she eats it up and does great. Just not ISTJ great, and she'd burn up if she had to do it again. I talk to my ISTJ friend about metaphysics and she has a lot of interesting things to say. Practical, intelligent, insightful things to say. It's great because she GETS THE CONCEPT, but doesn't GET LOST IN IT. 

The ENFP would be worthless accountant and the ISTJ would be pretty lame metaphysicist. So what?


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## Word Dispenser (May 18, 2012)

We'll pool a bunch of agreed upon people of every type, and they'll write a description for their respective type. Solution found! roud:


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## candiemerald (Jan 26, 2014)

arkigos said:


> *They actually are running after butterflies, though they aren't singnig kumbaya. Smart, yes, dedicated? Well, they try. Driven? Well, driven like a sprinter... that is, like they know they gotta take it at a sprint because in about a week, it's back to the butterflies.
> *
> Yes, this is true.
> 
> ...


They are dedicated to their mission - their "butterflies." But if what they are currently pursuing isn't furthering their mission, then no, they aren't going to knuckle under and complete that task.
Anyway, you made way too much sense with this


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## PaladinX (Feb 20, 2013)

arkigos said:


> The descriptions fail to mention that ENFPs -suck- at logistics and can't do it. It's not that ENFPs are too cool to be accountants, it is that they would genuinely be terrible at it. Does that mean they don't love getting on and doing their personal finances? That they suck at doing their taxes? I make my ENFP wife do taxes and she eats it up and does great. Just not ISTJ great, and she'd burn up if she had to do it again. I talk to my ISTJ friend about metaphysics and she has a lot of interesting things to say. Practical, intelligent, insightful things to say. It's great because she GETS THE CONCEPT, but doesn't get GET LOST IN IT.
> 
> The ENFP would be worthless accountant and the ISTJ would be pretty lame metaphysicist. So what?


My ENFP friend was an accountant. She was very good at her job. After taking the MBTI and learning more about herself, she realized why she was so unhappy with her job, despite doing very well at it. She went back to school, got a degree in education and now teaches first graders. She is much happier.

What I think MBTI expresses very well, if anyone has ever done a workshop, is that people can do anything that any other type can do. It is possible for them to do it just as well too. However, they will have to put more energy into working with non-preferred functions. The way that they explain it is like using you're non-preferred hand to write. You can do it, and with enough practice can probably do it quite well, but it still requires more effort than your natural preference (unless you're ambidextrous, then ).


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## PaladinX (Feb 20, 2013)

Word Dispenser said:


> We'll pool a bunch of agreed upon people of every type, and they'll write a description for their respective type. Solution found! roud:


I think that's the way that the current MBTI profiles are written (the official ones anyway). Some people seem to disagree with them.

I like Berens' approach. Not only does she provide a description, but she also provides various quotes by members of that type. I think it is more helpful to step into those shoes than read abstracted and objective type descriptions. It can be hard to subjectively step into an objectively written description. Maybe that's just me.


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## Psychopomp (Oct 3, 2012)

PaladinX said:


> My ENFP friend was an accountant. She was very good at her job. After taking the MBTI and learning more about herself, she realized why she was so unhappy with her job, despite doing very well at it. She went back to school, got a degree in education and now teaches first graders. She is much happier.
> 
> What I think MBTI expresses very well, if anyone has ever done a workshop, is that people can do anything that any other type can do. They can do it just as well too. However, they will have to put more energy into working with non-preferred functions. The way that they explain it is like using you're non-preferred hand to write. You can do it, and with enough practice can probably do it quite well, but it still requires more effort than your natural preference (unless you're ambidextrous, then ).


Honestly, my knee-jerk reaction to that is that she was an ESxJ who had an Ne-prompted life-crisis which caused an ENFP mistype.. and moved to a place that made her happier because it indulged the very human need to not be an accountant :wink:

That she moved to a job that is arguably just as or MORE associated with SJ, is telling. First Grade teacher is one of the most logistical jobs there is. Having put a kid through first grade, I can also tell you it is SJ central. SJ HQ. So logistic, so directive. So SJ. 

I am sorry, but ENFPs don't wake up one day as an accountant and think, "OMG I am an ENFP, what am I doing here!?" No. ESFJs wake up one day and their tertiary Ne is panicking and they have a crisis. Just like INFPs who are moping around through their 20s suddenly have their Si go into a crisis and decide they are just going to become an accountant... and then try to do that or something like it. They end up doing something more INFPish anyway... though they think they are being all Si, much like your friend thinks that teaching first graders is somehow more Ne. 

People are always saying they are something 'deep down' or 'revealed to be' or 'realized they were'. In my experience, which I say as a caveat not as a proof, is that these people are usually the first thing and their crisis shows how lower functions have their say and more influence than we suspect.


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## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

You do not fight the good fight alone!











Look here:
http://personalitycafe.com/myers-br...strations-problems-annoyances-complaints.html


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## idoh (Oct 24, 2013)

arkigos said:


> Honestly, my knee-jerk reaction to that is that she was an ESxJ who had an Ne-prompted life-crisis which caused an ENFP mistype.. and moved to a place that made her happier because it indulged the very human need to not be an accountant :wink:
> 
> That she moved to a job that is arguably just as or MORE associated with SJ, is telling. First Grade teacher is one of the most logistical jobs there is. Having put a kid through first grade, I can also tell you it is SJ central. SJ HQ. So logistic, so directive. So SJ.
> 
> ...


my mom's an esfj and was a software engineer, now a risk analyst. lol


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## Psychopomp (Oct 3, 2012)

idoh said:


> my mom's an esfj and was a software engineer, now a risk analyst. lol


As a software engineer, what did she do? This is important, because I am a developer and I have indeed seen ESxJs in my line of work. However, engineering has it's place for logistics... just being a software engineer does not mean that you prefer abstract design work or are good at it. 

We would have crashed and burned without our ESTJ developer. She put out thousands of fires while we sat in lala land designing stuff and redesigning stuff and wasting time. She mocked us relentlessly. And accurately.


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## Deus Absconditus (Feb 27, 2011)

The reason is because so many fucking people cant just agree on the most truthful notion to all of this, that everyone is different with some people better than others at certain things because its innate in them. Ive said this before and ill say it again, we are equal but we are far from the same. Types have innate preferences, those innate preferences naturally means they are more inclined to prefer certain aspects of life. You can call it a stereotype or not but its the truth whether you agree or not. Im an Ne user, I love imagining possibilities, is it a stereotype that Ne users love possibilities? Yes but its the truth. Its also the truth that no other type is naturally more inclined to imagine and love possibilities more than the Ne user. Its also the truth, that because no other type is more naturally inclined to visualizing possibilities, that the Ne user is naturally a better possibility generator than any other type. Its indeed a stereotype but it is the undeniable truth.

People need to understand that whenever anything has a higher preference towards something, then a stereotype will be made. Its up to you to understand if that stereotype is legit or not. If youre just going against the stereotypes just because it rubs you the wrong way well personality types probably isnt for you. If youre going against stereotypes because theyre blatantly wrong, then continue on the good fight.


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## idoh (Oct 24, 2013)

arkigos said:


> As a software engineer, what did she do? This is important, because I am a developer and I have indeed seen ESxJs in my line of work. However, engineering has it's place for logistics... just being a software engineer does not mean that you prefer abstract design work or are good at it.
> 
> We would have crashed and burned without our ESTJ developer. She put out thousands of fires while we sat in lala land designing stuff and redesigning stuff and wasting time. She mocked us relentlessly. And accurately.


sure... i've been told my brain is wired for engineering

her job was to write SAS and SQL codes to gather data and translate business logic into technical logic to produce reporting outputs in excel, etc.


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