# Is "doing what you love" a load of crap?



## Paper Planes (Dec 19, 2012)

I mean to a certain extent? If you love to help people and be a caregiver you'd be very happy as a doctor or nurse I'm sure, but if what you love is something like travelling, or just having and going to parties, or appreciating the arts? Are you better off choosing a career that you're alright with, maybe not love, in order to afford you a nice lifestyle and allow you to indulge in your hobbies? Or is the best way to be happy to work harder to find yourself a career in the things you truly love?


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## Marac (Mar 26, 2012)

I think there is a lot of truth to "doing what you love."

You'll have a much easier and enjoyable time if you focus on something you like doing. And it is the only way to really become a master of something. Then you can get payed for your services and make a living out of it.

Furthermore, I also think it is important to work on something that gives you meaning. That will give you much more happiness in the long run, than a large paycheck. 

Too many people pursue money as an end in itself, but the fact is that, money is only something you use as a mean for something else. So it has no value in itself. Research throughout the world has shown that once people earn enough money to be able to sustain a basic living standard, any further increase has no effect on their happines. Just look at the "western" nations. Despite how our living standard has kept increasing throughout the decades, we are no happier on avreage now than we were 50 years ago. 

Watching the leaves blow in the wind, being with your best friends, using your creativity, taking a walk with your grandparents, playing with your dog, having amazing sex, taking a daytrip in the forest. The best things in life are free.

See:


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## Paper Planes (Dec 19, 2012)

Well then how do you find what you love to do on a daily basis? What work gives you meaning?


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## DiamondDays (Sep 4, 2012)

Yes it is. To have any real chance for happiness you have to love what you do, not vice versa.


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## All in Twilight (Oct 12, 2012)

_*Choose a job you love, and you will never have to work a day in your life*_

Confucius


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## Morpheus83 (Oct 17, 2008)

DiamondDays said:


> Yes it is. To have any real chance for happiness you have to love what you do, not vice versa.


This might go down well in a totalitarian society -- if it's solely a matter of conformity and survival, imo. But then again, if we feel 'obligated' to love what we already 'do' -- maybe it's better to ask what might've drawn us to something in the first place (assuming there's choice involved).

On the other hand, sometimes the search for the 'perfect' career might lead to 'paralysis analysis', where it's easy to end up not doing anything while feeling a constant sense of dissatisfaction -- passivity and idealism run amok.


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## DiamondDays (Sep 4, 2012)

Morpheus83 said:


> This might go down well in a totalitarian society -- if it's solely a matter of conformity and survival, imo. But then again, if we feel 'obligated' to love what we already 'do' -- maybe it's better to ask what might've drawn us to something in the first place (assuming there's choice involved).
> 
> On the other hand, sometimes the search for the 'perfect' career might lead to 'paralysis analysis', where it's easy to end up not doing anything while feeling a constant sense of dissatisfaction -- passivity and idealism run amok.


Most people don't have any real opportunity for choice. Not really. So not getting over your "feelings" will only get in the way of any real contentment/happyness/whatever you are looking for. Life isn't very fun for 80% of the people, if you go in to it with the expectation that you'll get to do what you really dream about you're going to be disappointed most likely.

You should try, but don't kill yourself when you're 35 and nothings really the way you planned it. That's life for most people.

So try to find what you like about what you do and excel in that. If what you're doing is flipping burgers i get the discontentment but if what's bugging you is that you're not a multi millionaire or what have you you just need to get over yourself.

Anyways i typed you as infp by your first sentence alone hehe...


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## SirDave (Sep 1, 2012)

If you love doing what you do to earn a living you'll never think of it as work; ergo, the potential for a life without working.


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## Morpheus83 (Oct 17, 2008)

@DiamondDays

Yep. Imo, I think simply trying is the most important thing (never mind the results -- because you can't predict those things). Sure -- there will always be many economic and social factors limiting a person's career opportunities...but yeah -- I'd rather not go down without a fight. I agree -- and I think the real problem here is that some people are too focused on specific 'results' and 'expectations' (often to live an idealistic bourgeois dream) -- than taking calculated risks while adapting to the situation. I think a good principle to follow is "Never bet more than you can afford to lose." So it's probably not a good idea to sell your house, car and to give up your current job all at once if your dream is to become a singer -- even though you've never had any training and other people think you're tone deaf. This doesn't mean that you shouldn't try, though -- but patience, discipline and delaying gratification are also very important when pursuing your passion, imo.


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## Devin87 (May 15, 2011)

Not everyone can do what they love. Who loves cleaning toilets? Someone's gotta do it. I think you can usually find a balance. Don't become a CPA if you hate math. Don't become a teacher if you hate kids. But if you're unemployed and can't find a job and you get offered a job that isn't your life's dream, don't turn it down or think you're too good for it. I have several friends and family who have been on unemployment for way longer than they needed to be because they're just being too picky. At some point, you just need a job. But I feel that, as long as you don't absolutely hate the underlying fabric of your job, the attitude you bring to the table can do a lot to make or break it. Take the job you need to make money and then go above and beyond and take ownership of the job and really rock it while working on figuring out what else you might like to do and looking for more opportunities in that. Not everyone's going to have the most awesome job in the world, because again-- someone's gotta scrub the toilets (I did it for a few years), but take a good attitude and do what needs to be done. Don't get entitled.


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## Paper Planes (Dec 19, 2012)

Morpheus83 said:


> @_DiamondDays_
> 
> Yep. Imo, I think simply trying is the most important thing (never mind the results -- because you can't predict those things). Sure -- there will always be many economic and social factors limiting a person's career opportunities...but yeah -- I'd rather not go down without a fight. I agree -- and I think the real problem here is that some people are too focused on specific 'results' and 'expectations' (often to live an idealistic bourgeois dream) -- than taking calculated risks while adapting to the situation. I think a good principle to follow is "Never bet more than you can afford to lose." So it's probably not a good idea to sell your house, car and to give up your current job all at once if your dream is to become a singer -- even though you've never had any training and other people think you're tone deaf. This doesn't mean that you shouldn't try, though -- but patience, discipline and delaying gratification are also very important when pursuing your passion, imo.





Devin87 said:


> Not everyone can do what they love. Who loves cleaning toilets? Someone's gotta do it. I think you can usually find a balance. Don't become a CPA if you hate math. Don't become a teacher if you hate kids. But if you're unemployed and can't find a job and you get offered a job that isn't your life's dream, don't turn it down or think you're too good for it. I have several friends and family who have been on unemployment for way longer than they needed to be because they're just being too picky. At some point, you just need a job. But I feel that, as long as you don't absolutely hate the underlying fabric of your job, the attitude you bring to the table can do a lot to make or break it. Take the job you need to make money and then go above and beyond and take ownership of the job and really rock it while working on figuring out what else you might like to do and looking for more opportunities in that. Not everyone's going to have the most awesome job in the world, because again-- someone's gotta scrub the toilets (I did it for a few years), but take a good attitude and do what needs to be done. Don't get entitled.



Essentially you're say there's a line between pursuing your dream career and doing what needs getting done to get by, but there should be a bit of both until you get an opportunity to really pursue your dreams? Along those lines?


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## bluekitdon (Dec 19, 2012)

If you study highly successful people you will find that they are doing something they enjoy, and since they enjoy it they spend a lot of time doing it. That doesn't mean that every part of the job will be enjoyable, there are things in any position that are not "fun" activities. Figuring out how to make your talents help others is the gist, if you can find something that you enjoy doing that others will pay for then you are in good shape.


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## Paper Planes (Dec 19, 2012)

bluekitdon said:


> If you study highly successful people you will find that they are doing something they enjoy, and since they enjoy it they spend a lot of time doing it. That doesn't mean that every part of the job will be enjoyable, there are things in any position that are not "fun" activities. Figuring out how to make your talents help others is the gist, if you can find something that you enjoy doing that others will pay for then you are in good shape.


Finding a job you really enjoy should be the number one priority, preferably paying well and moderately altruistic at the least, but you shouldn't pick something JUST for money and you shouldn't be TOO picky about what work you do if you're having a rough time or aren't exactly in demand. That makes a lot of sense and sounds like a good idea, that about the gist of it?


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## bluekitdon (Dec 19, 2012)

Go flip burgers for awhile if you have to in order to make ends meet but look for something you can enjoy and do really well long term. So yeah paper planes, that's the gist.


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## Devin87 (May 15, 2011)

Paper Planes said:


> Essentially you're say there's a line between pursuing your dream career and doing what needs getting done to get by, but there should be a bit of both until you get an opportunity to really pursue your dreams? Along those lines?


Kinda. I'm not saying it's impossible to do what you love-- many people do-- just be willing to do what needs to be done, as well. I've found a lot of people in my generation, which is really just starting to get into the workforce now, are either disappointed with the fact that they actually have to work or they're putting off starting a career because they think certain jobs are below them or they're waiting for the absolute perfect job. That's the load of malarkey that was fed to our generation-- we're all going to be doctors and lawyers and famous artists and astronauts and we shouldn't settle for anything less because we're too good to be janitors and food service workers and trash men and interns who make coffee. It's BS.

Pursue your dreams, but be willing to compromise and start at the bottom and work your way up into the upper echelon or work as a waitress while you're waiting for your big acting debut or do whatever you need to do. And realize that you can make any job honorable by doing it with pride and effort and that no job is below you, so don't sit on your butt on unemployment while you wait for someone to come hand you your dream job.


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## Paper Planes (Dec 19, 2012)

Devin87 said:


> a lot of people in my generation, which is really just starting to get into the workforce now, are either disappointed with the fact that they actually have to work or they're putting off starting a career because they think certain jobs are below them or they're waiting for the absolute perfect job. That's the load of malarkey that was fed to our generation-- we're all going to be doctors and lawyers and famous artists and astronauts and we shouldn't settle for anything less because we're too good to be janitors and food service workers and trash men and interns who make coffee. It's BS.


Just remember that it takes a lot of work to be a lawyer and you might have to be a firm's receptionist for a while to get there haha


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## jbking (Jun 4, 2010)

Paper Planes said:


> I mean to a certain extent?


To a certain extent, everything in the universe has some crap to it. I question if there is something that doesn't have some ugly side somewhere.



Paper Planes said:


> If you love to help people and be a caregiver you'd be very happy as a doctor or nurse I'm sure, but if what you love is something like travelling, or just having and going to parties, or appreciating the arts?


If you like traveling, there are people that write about various tourist attractions, work as tour guides, or find other ways to build a business around getting from point A to point B.

For the having and going to parties, this is the person to be an party planner that handles creating events either for a specific venue, a charity or some other organization that may request such services.

For appreciating the arts, there would be art critics that may get paid for their opinion, like Roger Ebert did for movies. The key is whatever the interest is, find a way to get paid for doing something around those activities.



Paper Planes said:


> Are you better off choosing a career that you're alright with, maybe not love, in order to afford you a nice lifestyle and allow you to indulge in your hobbies?


Depends on one's principles among other things. Not everyone is ok with trading time and energy for money.



Paper Planes said:


> Or is the best way to be happy to work harder to find yourself a career in the things you truly love?


My suggestion would be to find fulfillment in what you do which is slightly different along with playing to one's strengths. If you are intrinsically motivated, then autonomy, mastery and purpose are likely key factors if you look at "Drive" by Dan Pink. For extrinsic motivation, then one could look at fame, status and other factors that may motivate one to do their best at a particular function.


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## Morpheus83 (Oct 17, 2008)

Some people are 'independently' wealthy -- while having important connections -- without having the need to do certain jobs for financial and basic necessities. That's fine with me; I don't begrudge these people their fortune and networks. If you follow the principle of "doing what you need to do" -- even if it means starting from somewhere else -- then 'privileged' people are also not that much different: they simply have the means to fast-track their desired career/s because they have more resources and ultimately a leg up. While I believe in giving your dreams a fighting chance and doing what you need to do to fulfill them while not sabotaging yourself in the process (it's a problem if you're ignoring the fact you're literally starving and don't have shelter to ward off the elements), I don't believe in a misguided sense of social 'obligation': starting from the 'bottom' (a judgment smacking of bourgeois values and sensibilities) to pay one's 'dues' to society and eventually 'earn' one's place on the 'ladder' to a 'prestigious' career. Some people (I personally know quite a few) actually *love* being cashiers and cleaners -- and who am I to judge them? It's a problem when some people project: "Who can stand doing these minimum wage jobs? *I'd* rather not do these jobs if I don't have to -- and why should anybody else feel any differently?" 

I also think it's a different social and psychological issue when some people feel like they're 'entitled' to 'better' careers simply because they might've 'suffered' more doing 'crappy' jobs compared to 'spoiled' people (who have no 'right' to complain) i.e. the Karate Kid mythology where the training and suffering of the protagonist is 'justified' -- because he's 'forced' to work hard to 'earn' his 'spoils' -- and without his 'spoils'...his 'suffering' would be perceived to be ultimately 'meaningless'.


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## Elvira (Dec 1, 2011)

I think the problem is that people see their likes as too narrow. For example, I am a very artsy and musical person, and I love these hobbies. However, what I loved about them, was being able to be creative. As a teacher or a speech therapist, I will be able to think of fun and creative ways to teach. Speech therapy is in demand and I get to help people and be creative 

There are aspects to every career that people don't like. For example, I think anatomy is going to be rough but I will tough it out! You definitely want to have more likes than dislikes in a career, but not liking a certain class or aspect of a job isn't necessarily a red flag. 

And some people who major in theater or art history end up working minimum wage jobs...and I am sure they dont love doing that. Why not pool your interests to major in something productive and do that on that side?


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## Paper Planes (Dec 19, 2012)

jbking said:


> If you are intrinsically motivated, then autonomy, mastery and purpose are likely key factors if you look at "Drive" by Dan Pink. For extrinsic motivation, then one could look at fame, status and other factors that may motivate one to do their best at a particular function.


Very interesting...how would you go about telling whether or not you are more intrinsically or extrinsically motivated?


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## Paper Planes (Dec 19, 2012)

@jbking I seem to have asked a rather complicated question haha. I ask this all because I just want to figure out the direction to steer my life in you know? If we're being honest here I want to live rather comfortably, make millions if possible and yes people may think I'm dumb and young and ambitious but if you ask what my dream is it's that. The thing is that you see all this stuff on the internet telling you not to build your career around seeking out wealth, all these articles telling you that's the worst thing you could do with your life. If all I dream about is living like Bruce Wayne does it matter how I get there? I realize this is maybe not the best forum on the internet to bring it up on but the question was brought up from questions more relevant here so I guess it slipped my mind haha.


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## jbking (Jun 4, 2010)

Paper Planes said:


> I ask this all because I just want to figure out the direction to steer my life in you know?


I can understand that some people may want ideas for guidance in their lives and ask for other people to comment on various ideas.



Paper Planes said:


> If we're being honest here I want to live rather comfortably, make millions if possible and yes people may think I'm dumb and young and ambitious but if you ask what my dream is it's that. The thing is that you see all this stuff on the internet telling you not to build your career around seeking out wealth, all these articles telling you that's the worst thing you could do with your life. If all I dream about is living like Bruce Wayne does it matter how I get there?


8 lottery winners who lost their millions - MSN Money would be an article about lottery winners that ran out of money which to me would make the how you get there matter.

While Bruce did inherit his wealth, there is something to be said for the schooling he had as well as the advisers that helped him maintain his lifestyle. Have you really considered what the day-to-day activities would be for Bruce Wayne? How many hours a day spent doing various exercises to maintain his strength, reflexes, and agility? How many hours spent studying chemistry, drugs, and technology to outfit the Bat-cave with all his toys? If you can consider the work it takes to be Bruce Wayne and still think you are up for having that kind of lifestyle, try to see if there are people that do something close to that kind of work and interview them to get more details of how hard is that life. My guess is that you haven't really looked long and hard at all the finer points of this decision.


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## Paper Planes (Dec 19, 2012)

jbking said:


> How many hours a day spent doing various exercises to maintain his strength, reflexes, and agility? How many hours spent studying chemistry, drugs, and technology to outfit the Bat-cave with all his toys?


Haha I was meaning without the Batman stuff. Just Bruce Wayne's life  although to be fair if it were an option to be Batman it's pretty tempting...


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## Paper Planes (Dec 19, 2012)

jbking said:


> How many hours a day spent doing various exercises to maintain his strength, reflexes, and agility? How many hours spent studying chemistry, drugs, and technology to outfit the Bat-cave with all his toys?


Haha I was meaning without the Batman stuff. Just Bruce Wayne's life outside of the Batcave haha.

The only people I can think of that make that kind of money and can allow themselves to live somewhat of a similar lifestyle are rich businessmen(investors, traders, bankers etc..), sports/music/tv/book and film celebrities, and other various entrepreneurs.a


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## bearotter (Aug 10, 2012)

My answer: no, but it isn't to say that this means one will get to do what one loves for a career. Sometimes there isn't even the option.


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## Nastorm (Jun 3, 2012)

There are some people who by character can afford doing something they don't love. And there are some who can't.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

Picture yourself on your deathbed after doing a job your whole life that you hated.
Then tell me that doing what you love doesn't matter.


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## Paper Planes (Dec 19, 2012)

hornet said:


> Picture yourself on your deathbed after doing a job your whole life that you hated.
> Then tell me that doing what you love doesn't matter.



Well what if the point of working at all was to make money, and what you loved was making money, and you made tons of money. I think regardless of what work you did you'd be happy.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

Paper Planes said:


> Well what if the point of working at all was to make money, and what you loved was making money, and you made tons of money. I think regardless of what work you did you'd be happy.


That is called being an XSTJ. :crazy:
Nothing wrong with that, just that everybody isn't wired that way.


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## Paper Planes (Dec 19, 2012)

hornet said:


> That is called being an XSTJ. :crazy:
> Nothing wrong with that, just that everybody isn't wired that way.


Well the point of most of my questioning was to find out whether or not you can be like that and be at your true happiest


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

Paper Planes said:


> Well the point of most of my questioning was to find out whether or not you can be like that and be at your true happiest


Yes people like Buffet can, because they view it as meaningful.
People like me could never ever do that. XD


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## Paper Planes (Dec 19, 2012)

hornet said:


> Yes people like Buffet can, because they view it as meaningful.
> People like me could never ever do that. XD


I know this is rather off topic but it has an application to this conversation I promise haha, would you say that MBTI tests primarily how you process information and factors in decision making, whereas enneagram tests what motivates you and your life?


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

Paper Planes said:


> I know this is rather off topic but it has an application to this conversation I promise haha, would you say that MBTI tests primarily how you process information and factors in decision making, whereas enneagram tests what motivates you and your life?


Well it's a two-way street and motivation relates heavily upon what you find beautiful.
You create meaning out of what seems to be the structure of the world.
The enneagram could be said to be motivation, but actually it is an overview of neurotic behavior patterns.
You could argue that our neuroses motivate us, but I would rather think that beauty motivated me and
my neuroses keep me from enjoying that beauty. In that sense, Ennegram is more about why you
don't immerse yourself in your object of choice.


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## Paper Planes (Dec 19, 2012)

hornet said:


> Well it's a two-way street and motivation relates heavily upon what you find beautiful.
> You create meaning out of what seems to be the structure of the world.
> The enneagram could be said to be motivation, but actually it is an overview of neurotic behavior patterns.
> You could argue that our neuroses motivate us, but I would rather think that beauty motivated me and
> ...


Well that's one way for me to fail at clarifying my understanding of these things haha. If you wouldn't mind I filled out an Enneagram questionnaire and have a thread for it asking for some help typing myself, I'd love some extra input


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## fihe (Aug 30, 2012)

it's important to strike a balance between doing what you love and doing something that pays the bills, especially if your career of choice requires a college education and therefore costs money (possibly a whole lot of money, in fact). for example, one of my coworkers is an art major in college, concentrating in graphic design. that's probably the only area of art where one can make a decent amount of money nowadays and not be a "starving artist".


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## SorkBoard (Dec 31, 2012)

threads, this will be interesting to read later


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## Paper Planes (Dec 19, 2012)

SorkBoard said:


> threads, this will be interesting to read later


???


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## ewerk (Sep 22, 2012)

I love what I do now and there was a time I made a lot of money and didn't love my work and it was much harder. I believe if you love what you do you will become amazing at it over time and become successful but you will never truly become successful if you do something you don't love. You may make lots of money but you will feel that you're unfulfilled and not truly happy or successful. I think it's important to figure out what's most important to you. What's your definition of success and happiness? Only you can answer that for yourself. Even if you don't do what you love full-time right away it's important to pursue your passions on the side and do what lights you up to keep you energized and feeling alive. Find something that brings you joy and start experimenting with it, you never know where it will lead you. Don't put too much pressure on answering this question right away. Your purpose is to discover who you really are and then all else will follow.


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## Paper Planes (Dec 19, 2012)

ewerk said:


> I love what I do now and there was a time I made a lot of money and didn't love my work and it was much harder. I believe if you love what you do you will become amazing at it over time and become successful but you will never truly become successful if you do something you don't love. You may make lots of money but you will feel that you're unfulfilled and not truly happy or successful. I think it's important to figure out what's most important to you. What's your definition of success and happiness? Only you can answer that for yourself. Even if you don't do what you love full-time right away it's important to pursue your passions on the side and do what lights you up to keep you energized and feeling alive. Find something that brings you joy and start experimenting with it, you never know where it will lead you. Don't put too much pressure on answering this question right away. Your purpose is to discover who you really are and then all else will follow.


Thanks man I think that's my plan from here on out, that was actually a pretty helpful and inspirational answer haha.


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## electricky (Feb 18, 2011)

It is if you take it the wrong way.

It doesn't mean that you can do anything that you love in its purest and expect to make a living. But it does mean that for you to have any chance of truly living and making a living in the long run, you need some positive attachment to your work. There is something you love out there _in some form or another_ that people will pay you for.


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## hulia (Sep 13, 2012)

If "doing what you love" counts for the liberal arts and drawing cartoons, then maybe. It all comes down to if you can survive on your profession.


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## AimfortheBrain (Nov 2, 2010)

I just got a job working at a preschool. I love it so much that sometimes I forget I'm working. It's pretty amazing, even though the paycheck is really low. If I could make a living doing this for the rest of my life I would. It's awesome. 

Because I love it I feel like I want to learn everything about it so that I can become the best. I've never felt this way before about a job. I think loving my job has made me a better employee and a happier person.


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## Dan E (Jun 15, 2012)

> Is "doing what you love" a load of crap?


I find it to be the only truth.


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## aelium (Jan 13, 2013)

Turning and activity you love into a profession will at some point in time make it stressful. And that can make you stop loving it. 

It's better to keep the things you love non-mandatory.


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## clarinet cigarette (Jan 15, 2013)

In the case that the certain thing you love is not profitable, you'd have to decide what you love more - that thing or having money/a stable financial situation. It seems to me that virtually anything somebody could love doing is related to some sort of form of employment. For example, someone who loves video games could become a tester or a designer. Someone who loves traveling could write travel guides. 

In my case, I love playing the clarinet, so I'm going to pursue a career in music performance. Music isn't a safe career choice, but that's what I want to do, even if it means being poor in the future. It's just up to the individual to decide what would make them happiest.


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## wiarumas (Aug 27, 2010)

It's a load of crap to a degree for most people. We all can't do what we love. Society wouldn't function. 

Instead, do what you love or do what makes money. Some lucky few get to do both. Whatever you do, don't do a job you don't like for no money.


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## Hypaspist (Feb 11, 2012)

Most definitely not a load of crap. To make a living doing something, you have to have a high amount of passion for what you're doing. I've worked with people in the past who took pay cuts and went from manager (or own boss) to being a regular employee because they got to do something they love. I spent a few months working at a job that had paid _really_ well and came with some nice perks, but I hated what I worked with and all I could think about for days at a time was just getting in a car and driving a few thousand miles from my workplace.

If you hate what you do, no matter how much the paycheck is, you're going to be miserable.


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## HippoHunter94 (Jan 19, 2012)

I've had a few professors tell me to do what I love. Why? Because employers, unless you're going into a very specific field with a degree that is meant for a certain job, don't really care what you did in college. As long as someone knows that you can work and actually put in the effort to earn a Bachelor's, that's all that matters. So, if what you will study is less consequential, why not do more of what you love?


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## wiarumas (Aug 27, 2010)

HippoHunter94 said:


> I've had a few professors tell me to do what I love. Why? Because employers, unless you're going into a very specific field with a degree that is meant for a certain job, don't really care what you did in college. As long as someone knows that you can work and actually put in the effort to earn a Bachelor's, that's all that matters. So, if what you will study is less consequential, why not do more of what you love?


I disagree with this. You are competing against nearly 10% of the population for the short supply of jobs there are. While its true it doesn't really matter what degree you have, the person with the most relevant degree will take precedence. What you study is consequential because it is what lands the interview/internship/job. After that, your degree doesn't matter. Don't believe me, ask plenty of degree holders working fast food right now because they ignored potential prospects of their degree and graduated in something that they thought they'd love.


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## HippoHunter94 (Jan 19, 2012)

wiarumas said:


> I disagree with this. You are competing against nearly 10% of the population for the short supply of jobs there are. While its true it doesn't really matter what degree you have, the person with the most relevant degree will take precedence. What you study is consequential because it is what lands the interview/internship/job. After that, your degree doesn't matter. Don't believe me, ask plenty of degree holders working fast food right now because they ignored potential prospects of their degree and graduated in something that they thought they'd love.


This may be true, but there could be a lot of other confounding factors as well. For example, people with certain degrees might simply be seen as more impressive. Perhaps they are the kinds of people that interview more effectively. Maybe they put in all kinds of extra work around their degree. They possibly have more experience working in a given field or just working in general. Finding a job comes down more than just your degree. There's a reason you give an entire resume, an entire list of reasons why a person should be hired to consider.


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## wiarumas (Aug 27, 2010)

HippoHunter94 said:


> This may be true, but there could be a lot of other confounding factors as well. For example, people with certain degrees might simply be seen as more impressive. Perhaps they are the kinds of people that interview more effectively. Maybe they put in all kinds of extra work around their degree. They possibly have more experience working in a given field or just working in general. Finding a job comes down more than just your degree. There's a reason you give an entire resume, an entire list of reasons why a person should be hired to consider.


I agree, I just wanted to highlight the fact that a job won't be handed to a new grad on a silver platter just because of a bachelor degree without some degree of strategic planning to make a person stand out. Just doing what you love isn't the best strategy unless you love highly sought after skills.


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## HippoHunter94 (Jan 19, 2012)

wiarumas said:


> I agree, I just wanted to highlight the fact that a job won't be handed to a new grad on a silver platter just because of a bachelor degree without some degree of strategic planning to make a person stand out. Just doing what you love isn't the best strategy unless you love highly sought after skills.


No. Showing that you're a hard worker will give you a leg up. However, if you managed to do this, you could still do what you love. Besides, what people "love" could vary. It could be something less practical, like music or English, but it could also be something challenging like engineering or some kind of analysis. There are simply many things to consider.


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## Brian1 (May 7, 2011)

Paper Planes said:


> I mean to a certain extent? If you love to help people and be a caregiver you'd be very happy as a doctor or nurse I'm sure, but if what you love is something like travelling, or just having and going to parties, or appreciating the arts? Are you better off choosing a career that you're alright with, maybe not love, in order to afford you a nice lifestyle and allow you to indulge in your hobbies? Or is the best way to be happy to work harder to find yourself a career in the things you truly love?


Yes it is. I think in every dream job, there will be something the person doesn't like doing. If an idealist has a job as a teacher, it may be grading papers, or isolating the troublemaker, or making sure a few people don't fall behind. At the end of the day, work is still work. That's why there's a thing called vacation. Jackson Browne said "Gotta do what you can just to keep your love alive
Trying not to confuse it with what you do to survive." That's from Running On Empty. I love art, I love making it, I love going to museums. But art isn't going to pay the bills.


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## SoulShield (Jan 17, 2013)

I decided to major in Linguistics for the love of it. I have a deep understanding of language now, I'm trilingual, and I've been able to visit foreign countries, but I am consistently poor. So I guess you win some; you lose some.


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## fihe (Aug 30, 2012)

SoulShield said:


> I decided to major in Linguistics for the love of it. I have a deep understanding of language now, I'm trilingual, and I've been able to visit foreign countries, but I am consistently poor. So I guess you win some; you lose some.


I think a multilingual person would be very valuable working in international business. you should take some business classes if you didn't do so in college.


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## 2GiveMyHeart2 (Jan 2, 2012)

Well...when it's something that keeps you sane and you can't get excited about a job in the area that you know you can do well enought to stick with it, that's the only piece of hope.


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## SoulShield (Jan 17, 2013)

fihe said:


> I think a multilingual person would be very valuable working in international business. you should take some business classes if you didn't do so in college.


I'd love to get a Masters, but I'm broke and already neck deep in college debt. The whole debt thing leaves me hesitant to do the university business again. As I watch the young people enter into schools with increasingly rising costs and consistently diminishing returns, I'm really beginning to question the whole system.


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## fihe (Aug 30, 2012)

SoulShield said:


> I'd love to get a Masters, but I'm broke and already neck deep in college debt. The whole debt thing leaves me hesitant to do the university business again. As I watch the young people enter into schools with increasingly rising costs and consistently diminishing returns, I'm really beginning to question the whole system.


me too. that's why I've been taking free courses online via coursera.org. they're offered by actual professors from reputable universities, but because you don't get credits considering that they're free, I wonder if employers would consider them at all if I list them on the résumé under "continuing education".


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## Agile (Sep 27, 2010)

fihe said:


> me too. that's why I've been taking free courses online via coursera.org. they're offered by actual professors from reputable universities, but because you don't get credits considering that they're free, I wonder if employers would consider them at all if I list them on the résumé under "continuing education".


Unless there is certification, probably not in the education section, but skills and hobbies is fair game.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

Paper Planes said:


> I mean to a certain extent? If you love to help people and be a caregiver you'd be very happy as a doctor or nurse I'm sure, but if what you love is something like travelling, or just having and going to parties, or appreciating the arts? Are you better off choosing a career that you're alright with, maybe not love, in order to afford you a nice lifestyle and allow you to indulge in your hobbies? Or is the best way to be happy to work harder to find yourself a career in the things you truly love?


That depends entirely upon who you ask. 

My ISTJ wife would say it's a load of crap. She got frustrated with her desired career because she could not make enough money at it, and so she went back to school to find something with a more steady paycheck, but in a field she does not particularly care for. It drains her much faster, and while she is dilligent, hard working, and makes a decent salary, she dreads getting out of bed each day. She works from home, so she never really gets to look at our house as a place of respite and relaxation. She complains that she is not being paid what she is worth, and thus she works several side jobs, all from home. She works 10-15 hour days M-F, and probably another 8 hours on Sat and Sun. She generally keeps going until she collapses from exhaustion.

Sure, her efforts mean we have a comfortable middle-class life. We don't have any kids, we have a 4-bedroom house, and we can afford to take long vacations anywhere in the world, but I worry she's going to run herself into the ground, and no matter how much I warn her about it, she keeps right on doing it. What's the point of having extra money if you're so exhausted you really can't enjoy it? 

I believe it is possible to find a field that you love enough that a paycheck seems like a bonus, in fact, even if I were paid twice what I currently make to do something I hated, I don't think I could take the job. I need a reason to go to work every day. I can't just look at it practically. There has to be something about what I do because it makes me feel good doing it. I work in a high-tech field supporting satellite networks in a data center. I am surrounded by monitors, and there are hundreds of racks crammed with servers, routers, switches, and hubs (oh my!) that I am responsible for. I also have to deal with equipment that converts electronic data into radio frequency, and back again. Then there's all the stuff I handle that sends electronic data across various ground circuits, some of it is optical fiber, some of it is copper. For a geeky techno-ENTP, all of this stuff is so COOL!


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## fihe (Aug 30, 2012)

tanstaafl28 said:


> What's the point of having extra money if you're so exhausted you really can't enjoy it?


it's important to save for emergencies! still, I don't think I would do my best work at a job I hated, especially if I had to work such long hours -_-

my grandfather sold his old house a few months ago and recently gave me a rather large sum of money equal to the amount I originally borrowed for my student loan. after paying it off, I have about $9000 left over but I've put it in my savings and pretend it's not there. I'll still be living somewhat like a pauper just as I was before, but at least now I won't need to give up at least 80% of my paycheck to Sallie Mae, formerly known as "my owner".


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

fihe said:


> it's important to save for emergencies! still, I don't think I would do my best work at a job I hated, especially if I had to work such long hours -_-
> 
> my grandfather sold his old house a few months ago and recently gave me a rather large sum of money equal to the amount I originally borrowed for my student loan. after paying it off, I have about $9000 left over but I've put it in my savings and pretend it's not there. I'll still be living somewhat like a pauper just as I was before, but at least now I won't need to give up at least 80% of my paycheck to Sallie Mae, formerly known as "my owner".


They still own me. My wife has lots of money she pretends we don't have (and I don't ask).


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## fihe (Aug 30, 2012)

tanstaafl28 said:


> They still own me. My wife has lots of money she pretends we don't have (and I don't ask).


Oh dear! even though this is probably none of my business, I think she should help you pay off your loan. even though she earned that money herself, it's in both of your interests to get that paid off. after all, when one is married, the spouse's financial problems become one's own financial problems.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

fihe said:


> Oh dear! even though this is probably none of my business, I think she should help you pay off your loan. even though she earned that money herself, it's in both of your interests to get that paid off. after all, when one is married, the spouse's financial problems become one's own financial problems.


But of course she does. We pool our resources. I give her most of my paycheck because I would spend it.


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## fihe (Aug 30, 2012)

tanstaafl28 said:


> But of course she does. We pool our resources. I give her most of my paycheck because I would spend it.


ah, I was under the impression that she wasn't sharing her money. but that's a good idea of you to give her a lot of your money so that she can make sure it's well spent! I wish my dad would do that with my mom. he spends too much money on things we don't need -_-


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