# The functions illustrated, in Paint



## Distort (Aug 31, 2012)

Was bored so I decided to draw some images to represent each function. Not sure if they're useful or that accurate, but meh, it was for fun. I had trouble most with Si, but it's basically representing two sensory data points, the left one being from the mind's sense-data bank, and the right one being a data point being perceived in the present and compared to the other.


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## Sporadic Aura (Sep 13, 2009)

Nice! This is a creative way to depict the functions, and I feel this is actually pretty accurate. The only one I wasn't too sure of was the one you said you had the hardest time with, Si, but I can't think of a better way to depict it right now. I think the Si one does get the basic gist of Si anyways.


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## RunForCover07 (Apr 9, 2013)

I tried doing something like this with Ni/Se (INxJ) and Si/Ne (ISxJ). I never did finish refining it or tweaking it. And of course, there are other functions that would support Ni/Se and Si/Ne.










Bigger Pic


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## O_o (Oct 22, 2011)

Yes. 
Fairly easy to get the gist of each upon first glance. 
Well represented/summarized, I'd say.


On another note: It's interesting comparing Ne+Ti/Ti+Ne with Ni+Te/Te+Ni. 
Just kind of look at the two, their pattern. 
The later is focused, leading towards a point with this objectively organized represented thinking. While the first is doing whatever it possibly can to disorient the recipient.


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## Reluctanine (May 11, 2014)

I love this! It feels pretty accurate!!! And wow, does Ti really feel like that? I had no idea. Huh. It makes so much sense.


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## Pelopra (May 21, 2013)

Si (along the same lines that you had it as a contrast):


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## Pelopra (May 21, 2013)

Reluctanine said:


> I love this! It feels pretty accurate!!! And wow, does Ti really feel like that? I had no idea. Huh. It makes so much sense.


I can testify that (at least with Ne) it definitely does.


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## The Exception (Oct 26, 2010)

I think I get the gist of most of these, but am having trouble comprehending the Si one. Could you explain, this one? The way I saw it was Si detects the subtle nuances and is able to see small differences. The circles are similar in color but they are not the same. Was this what the OP had in mind?


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## Reluctanine (May 11, 2014)

Fractals and Pterodactyls said:


> The way I saw it was Si detects the subtle nuances and is able to see small differences. The circles are similar in color but they are not the same. Was this what the OP had in mind?


Well, the way I interpreted it was that the one on the right is the object in the present, so it's a darker, more "there" colour. The dividing line is what is inside and outside of me. The lighter brown object on the left is the echo of the past, of the object's impression stored inside me. I not only only notice the differences, but it's like the object from before is actually there in my mind and I can see it and compare to the object in the present. I can recall my favourite mechanical pencil has a handle but it broke off because I was fiddling with it too much one day. I can still see how the pencil was before I broke it.


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## Pelopra (May 21, 2013)

Reluctanine said:


> Well, the way I interpreted it was that the one on the right is the object in the present, so it's a darker, more "there" colour. The dividing line is what is inside and outside of me. The lighter brown object on the left is the echo of the past, of the object's impression stored inside me. I not only only notice the differences, but it's like the object from before is actually there in my mind and I can see it and compare to the object in the present. I can recall my favourite mechanical pencil has a handle but it broke off because I was fiddling with it too much one day. I can still see how the pencil was before I broke it.


I actually feel as if the present moment is almost fainter than the past impression.... 

I'm curious of what people think of my take, which was attempting to show how the cumulated repetition of memories creates something more vivid and alive almost....



Edit: also I feel like Si looks so dull and drab next to Se in the OP version. I don't think Si is dull, I think it is... Sentimental. It has an inner warmth. Although maybe some SiTe users can offer their opinion.


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## Reluctanine (May 11, 2014)

Pelopra said:


> I actually feel as if the present moment is almost fainter than the past impression....
> 
> I'm curious of what people think of my take, which was attempting to show how the cumulated repetition of memories creates something more vivid and alive almost....
> 
> Edit: also I feel like Si looks so dull and drab next to Se in the OP version. I don't think Si is dull, I think it is... Sentimental. It has an inner warmth. Although maybe some SiTe users can offer their opinion.


OH! Hey! That does make sense too. I guess for me I focus a lot on where some part of the object is like.... Broken or dirtied. Like a tear in my blanket and I feel really sad that it's there because I know it's not supposed to be there. So, the current broken parts of the object take up more space in my mind because of the sadness I get from it.

Huh. I actually thought the brown colour feels quite warm! 

And yes, your take is the happier part of Si for me. Like when I'm eating a donut, I'll recall all the times I ate a donut with a friend or my family. Feels super happy. Or like my mechanical pencil example, I'll remember a few of the times and places I wrote with it before it got old and I had to retire it. I had a good decade run with it.


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## Pelopra (May 21, 2013)

Reluctanine said:


> OH! Hey! That does make sense too. I guess for me I focus a lot on where some part of the object is like.... Broken or dirtied. Like a tear in my blanket and I feel really sad that it's there because I know it's not supposed to be there. So, the current broken parts of the object take up more space in my mind because of the sadness I get from it.
> 
> Huh. I actually thought the brown colour feels quite warm!
> 
> And yes, your take is the happier part of Si for me. Like when I'm eating a donut, I'll recall all the times I ate a donut with a friend or my family. Feels super happy. Or like my mechanical pencil example, I'll remember a few of the times and places I wrote with it before it got old and I had to retire it. I had a good decade run with it.




It's weird, there's a kind of tendency I have towards bitter sweetness. For example, I once falsely accused someone of something they didn't do, and afterwards when I realized they hadn't, I kept a memento of it, and every time I'd look at it I'd replay the feeling I had when I realized I was wrong, which was a lot of remorse and affection...


But yeah, I get what you're saying about the donut. It's not always conscious or anything - - its just this background overlaying the experience. Or underpinning it, maybe. That's definitely why things taste better if you love the person who made them or the person you're eating with. 


Anyway, yeah. When it comes to functions, it's sometimes weird to realize fifty percent of people have a somewhat different way of processing than I do. It's weird to think not everyone uses Si... Often I don't really believe it. But then an INTJ will look at me weirdly when I describe Si and I'll realize that they, at least, have no clue what I'm talking about.


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## StoneMoon (Dec 23, 2013)

This is great!  I'm so going to use this when I explain MBTI to people! D


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## Quercetin (Dec 5, 2012)

This is awesome. I don't understand the Fe and Fi pictures too well however. Could you explain them to me in this context?


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## Pelopra (May 21, 2013)

Quercetin said:


> This is awesome. I don't understand the Fe and Fi pictures too well however. Could you explain them to me in this context?


What I understood it as, is Fe tries to receive emotional input (colors) from the external environment as objectively as possible, whereas Fi has its own colors.


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## Coburn (Sep 3, 2010)

Checks out for me. I think you did a damned good job visualizing the basic mechanics of each function.


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## Coburn (Sep 3, 2010)

Pelopra said:


> What I understood it as, is Fe tries to receive emotional input (colors) from the external environment as objectively as possible, whereas Fi has its own colors.


Second this. 

The Fe takes in emotional input, the Fi takes it in and then throws it out in favor of it's own perspective. Hence the non-group related colors for the final product.


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## Sixty Nein (Feb 13, 2011)

Guess what I'm trying to illustrate.


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## Reluctanine (May 11, 2014)

Necrophilous said:


> Guess what I'm trying to illustrate.


Feelers meeting with thinkers, a second before the resultant fireworks.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

Quercetin said:


> This is awesome. I don't understand the Fe and Fi pictures too well however. Could you explain them to me in this context?


Fe mirrors the colors of others and Fi displays it's own colors.


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## Quercetin (Dec 5, 2012)

O_o said:


> Ne+Ti/Ti+Ne
> 
> While the first is doing whatever it possibly can to disorient the recipient.


I want to learn how to develop Ne, sounds like a fun house. I so do enjoy being shortened and stretched.


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## ferroequinologist (Jul 27, 2012)

Marlowe said:


> Second this.
> 
> The Fe takes in emotional input, the Fi takes it in and then throws it out in favor of it's own perspective. Hence the non-group related colors for the final product.


I would say Fi intensifies the colors of the feelings.


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## kittenmogu (Jun 19, 2014)

ferroequinologist said:


> I would say Fi intensifies the colors of the feelings.


I like this. Fi makes its own meaning, but not entirely entirely independently from what's around it.


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## Quercetin (Dec 5, 2012)

kittenmogu said:


> I like this. Fi makes its own meaning, but not entirely entirely independently from what's around it.


That's very similar to how Ti works from a broad perspective at least. Is there a reference for how Fi works with other cognitive functions tangibly? For example what Fi is paired with in poetry, pictorial art, ethical analysis. If Fi works as you describe, it could be just about anything come to think about it.


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## kittenmogu (Jun 19, 2014)

Quercetin said:


> That's very similar to how Ti works from a broad perspective at least. Is there a reference for how Fi works with other cognitive functions tangibly? For example what Fi is paired with in poetry, pictorial art, ethical analysis. If Fi works as you describe it could be just about anything come to think about it.


Indeed. Fi can be about anything, Ti can be about anything. Both are subjective and just cognitive functions. For some reason I see Fi associated frequently with art, but as an art student this doesn't make much sense to me. But anyway, give a Fi-user and a Ti-user and they will just focus on different things about it.

Fi is also really abstract. It's hard for me to explain in words because, at least for me, I don't even think in words. Most of my Fi judgments extravert through Se (actions*) or Te (matter-of-fact statements), or even Fe, because I have developed that to an extent.

If I had to try to give an art example for Fi and Se-- I enjoy working with light. Light has visually and conceptually beautiful qualities, although as an ISFP I am more attuned to the visual qualities. I'll use this painting I made here for my explanation. It was done from observation. What happened was, I went into the kitchen and tried turning off the main lights, and leaving only this light on. I had a powerful emotional response to the result. I found the light so beautiful, in ways that I could never put into words. It moved me and I wanted to paint it. It meant something, and I wanted to actualize that meaning. (It was also for homework. But I can't make something unless I feel truly compelled to do it). This was done by painting it, from observing it closely and replicating it through material means. In addition to responding to my feelings about it and its concrete qualities, I also responded to the painting as I was making it, which informs the process of improvising and creating something from scratch with no clear end result in mind, just something that's constantly responding to the present. I was constantly present in the moment with the actuality as a way to channel my response to just this lit corner of the kitchen. I also value pointing out what may seem ordinary to others and showing them how extraordinarily I feel about it and how I see it.

This article helped me articulate some of my earlier thoughts. I'll be looking into Ti briefly, because I am still trying to understand it.

If someone can give their own example, feel free to do so. I'm not confident in my ability to explain, and sometimes I wonder if I even understand.


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## Distort (Aug 31, 2012)

I'm glad you all like them.  I wanted the pics to adequately describe both MBTI and Jung, because there is some discrepancy on Jung's original descriptions and the Myers-Briggs take on it. 

The one that doesn't really do this is the Ni illustration, as it shows how the multitude of sensory data merges to form one cohesive idea/vision/whatever-you-want-to-call-it, but it doesn't provide the Jungian Ni of exploration of the unconscious; "so the introverted intuitive moves from image to image, chasing after every possibility in the teeming womb of the unconscious."



RunForCover07 said:


> I tried doing something like this with Ni/Se (INxJ) and Si/Ne (ISxJ). I never did finish refining it or tweaking it. And of course, there are other functions that would support Ni/Se and Si/Ne.
> 
> Bigger Pic


That's cool! I like the symmetry in the design, and it provides a lot of clarity. You should finish it. 



Pelopra said:


> Edit: also I feel like Si looks so dull and drab next to Se in the OP version. I don't think Si is dull, I think it is... Sentimental. It has an inner warmth. Although maybe some SiTe users can offer their opinion.


I know what you mean. It does seem a little dull. Se is often portrayed as vivid, aggressive, broad exploration of sensory experience, whereas Si mostly the opposite. It's refined according to the individual, that's why there's more subtle colours rather than bright, you could say "basic", colours.



kittenmogu said:


> I like this. Fi makes its own meaning, but not entirely entirely independently from what's around it.


Yeah, exactly. The colours are altered to describe the individuality of their values, but they're still derived from the external environment, hence being different tones of the same hues. 

This is the case with Thinking too, but this was harder to illustrate. I suppose the 3x2 block of circles does the job, but in Te, the linear connections between them show the external standardization, whereas for Ti, it is not linear, and the logical connections are more personal to the subject.


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## Raawx (Oct 9, 2013)

Why are only the sensing and feeling types colored? Wouldn't it make sense that either they were all colored (to display how the relationship works) or that the introverted one was colored. I realized that the N and T ones focus on a relationship, but I don't think that it captures the whole story if there isn't a parallel between F/T and S/N. Rather, I think that what is captured is just a very common interpretation of the different cognitive functions; Ne is expansive, Ni is singular, Te is linear, Ti is not, etc.

I think that's why I'm not fully satisfied with the pictures.



Quercetin said:


> I want to learn how to develop Ne, sounds like a fun house. I so do enjoy being shortened and stretched.


One cannot "develop" a function; rather, one must learn to understand how they think and apply it to an understand of MBTI to find the closest explanation.


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## Coburn (Sep 3, 2010)

ferroequinologist said:


> I would say Fi intensifies the colors of the feelings.


Hmm...I can't really say I agree with that, personally. But it is an interesting interpretation.


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## ferroequinologist (Jul 27, 2012)

Marlowe said:


> Hmm...I can't really say I agree with that, personally. But it is an interesting interpretation.


I said that because Fe is often described as being expressive, and Fi as intensive. I know that what Fe people express, I tend to take much more intensely than they intended. They feel that expressing their feelings is supposed to draw people together in a shared experience, but the intensity of what they say usually serves to get me to simply shut up, and/or try to get away.  But anyway, Expressive vs Intensive.


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## MNiS (Jan 30, 2010)

Raawx said:


> I think that's why I'm not fully satisfied with the pictures.


I can speak only for myself but:

H:










Similar to Joker. However not nearly as snarky. Most people can't handle this movie, by the way.


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## Sixty Nein (Feb 13, 2011)

Reluctanine said:


> Feelers meeting with thinkers, a second before the resultant fireworks.


I can totally see where you got this from, but nah I was contrasting Si with Ni.

I'm not a very artistical person.


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## -Alpha- (Dec 30, 2013)

Necrophilous said:


> I can totally see where you got this from, but nah I was contrasting Si with Ni.
> 
> I'm not a very artistical person.


I thought it was a pony.


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## Reluctanine (May 11, 2014)

Quercetin said:


> That's very similar to how Ti works from a broad perspective at least. Is there a reference for how Fi works with other cognitive functions tangibly? For example what Fi is paired with in poetry, pictorial art, ethical analysis. If Fi works as you describe it could be just about anything come to think about it.


As an Fi-Ne user, here are some things I've done.

Ethical analysis: Vengeance VS Justice

Poetry analysis: 
"I have to tell you,
there are times when
the sun strikes me
like a gong,
and I remember everything,
even your ears."
Here.

Song lyrics analysis: Username Origins

I haven't posted this on my blog yet, but I plan to soon, so it's a bit rough in terms of elaboration. But here are some of my impressions of music @ElliCat kindly sent me to try and broaden my newbie classical mind. No words in the music, compared to the above.





Michelangeli - Mazurka Op.posth.68 no.2(Chopin) - Very soothing and almost melancholic. Reminds me of... a person walking through a forest that is almost to evening time, but not really there yet. They're trying to find their way home, so at 0:43 she sees a bright light in the distance and gets excited. Then at 1:38 with the PNG PNG PNG! She finds the familiar path and skips excitedly onwards!!! Then near the end the melody goes down again, and she's retiring for bed to snoooze. (Wow, it doesn't sound like a folk dance at all like you said it !)





Mozart - Rondo Alla Turca - OH THISSSSSSSSSSSSSSS I recognised the front part instantly! Always wondered what it was called. Reminds me of spinning round and round on a merry-go-round.





Tchaikovsky Piano Concerto No.1 - III Allegro con fuoco - OMG Running through a dark forest, around :55 breaking out into the sunlight, then dashing through a sun-kissed field. Maybe a bird flying? The violins are when it flies through the air. 2:44 ZOOOOM over the town houses.

I actually have a more in-depth paragraph length impression of another piece, but I have to sort through my inbox to find it. I'll post it up once I can locate it.

I basically get very excited from the new stimulation feeding into my Si which feeds my Fi and causes my Ne to explode.

Found it! Thank you to @FakeLefty for the recommendation!








> THAT WAS SO AWESOME OMG! THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm going to listen to it over and over. I just picture this guy picking up a girl at the beginning with the jaunty opening. They're both shy at first, since the music is a little slow, but then it slowly speeds up as they talk. Then around :51, you can hear a deeper piano sound kind of come in, and the guy is basically making his move. At 1:21 there's a trill kind of piano sound and it's the girl responding. At 1:37-1:46 they're sussing each other out and this sort of pulling and pushing occurs in the sounds and they're basically holding hands and walking along the street together, the guy trying to pull her and the girl is laughing and holding back. I think at 2:06 there's a sort of invitation to go home with from the deeper sound and the girl high pitched responds. So they start walking home and the music sort of slow and it's a little awkward and the girl laughs nervously with a sudden TNG. Then at 2: 42 the guy sound makes his move and the movie blacks out. THE END!
> 
> Of course, it's all set in like... an old-timey with old-timey lamp posts where they still had those quaint old cars.


Hmmm, I should do a pictorial art analysis soon. Any recommendations? I'll post what I see up here.


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## ferroequinologist (Jul 27, 2012)

Reluctanine said:


> Mozart - Rondo Alla Turca - OH THISSSSSSSSSSSSSSS I recognised the front part instantly! Always wondered what it was called. Reminds me of spinning round and round on a merry-go-round.


Hm. When I hear the opening to this piece, I always think of Lemmings--the game. It had/has a rendition of this piece as one of the in-game songs. I heard it probably hundreds of times while playing that game. Between my wife and me, we completed every level, and it took us months. I don't know how many millions of Lemmings we exterminated along the way. ;-) 

http://www.codiekitty.com/LEM/Music/Lem_Rondo.mid

(other versions here: Lemmings Music Station)

(actually, none of them sound like the one I listened to on our Mac, but hey, it's close enough)


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## ninjahitsawall (Feb 1, 2013)

O_o said:


> Yes.
> Fairly easy to get the gist of each upon first glance.
> Well represented/summarized, I'd say.
> 
> ...


lmao. Ti looks really confusing to me. I was looking at the one point on the bottom that the others all lead back to like "How can any of this be logically consistent? Isn't that one circular reasoning?"


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## Quercetin (Dec 5, 2012)

kittenmogu said:


> It was done from observation. I had a powerful emotional response to the result. It moved me and I wanted to paint it.


Sounds very Fi-Se/Se-Fi. I think I'm starting to understand how Fi works in conjunction with irrational functions (Se/Si/Ne/Ni). The article on Personality Junkies was quite helpful in filling in some of the details of what a heavy Fi user experiences.


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## Quercetin (Dec 5, 2012)

ninjahitsawall said:


> lmao. Ti looks really confusing to me. I was looking at the one point on the bottom that the others all lead back to like "How can any of this be logically consistent? Isn't that one circular reasoning?"


Sometimes, yes. Sometimes, no. Ti isn't linear reasoning, but database editing to conform to one's personal understanding of an idea/concept. It's open-ended, at least in my case. Ti-Ni/Ni-Ti can definitely lead to circular reasoning. It can also lead to temporarily accepting two or more seemingly contradictory ideas (cognitive dissonance isn't too discomforting). This can help for concept building/problem solving. My cubes of categorization are open, but filtered of course. It's fun to just let possibilities exist. Hope that made sense.


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## ninjahitsawall (Feb 1, 2013)

Quercetin said:


> Sometimes, yes. Sometimes, no. Ti isn't linear reasoning, but database editing to conform to one's personal understanding of an idea/concept. It's open-ended, at least in my case. Ti-Ni/Ni-Ti can definitely lead to circular reasoning. It can also lead to temporarily accepting two or more seemingly contradictory ideas (cognitive dissonance isn't too discomforting). This can help for concept building/problem solving. My cubes of categorization are open, but filtered of course. It's fun to just let possibilities exist. Hope that made sense.


I see... For whatever reason I've had the impression that Ti was a linear process.. or essentially that T = linear, order while N = randomness, chaos, such that Ti/Ne-Ne/Ti appear more "random" outwardly but are internally more structured, while Ni/Te-Te/Ni appear more structured but are inwardly more "chaotic." (I was also expecting Ni to be similar to Ne in that sense - just reverse the 'direction'.) Alrighty, guess I was off. Ha.


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## Reluctanine (May 11, 2014)

ferroequinologist said:


> Hm. When I hear the opening to this piece, I always think of Lemmings--the game. It had/has a rendition of this piece as one of the in-game songs. I heard it probably hundreds of times while playing that game. Between my wife and me, we completed every level, and it took us months. I don't know how many millions of Lemmings we exterminated along the way. ;-)


Aw yeah, Lemmings!!!! So when you hear it, does it generate feelings of happiness in you, because it reminds you of the times you spent with your wife? Or is it a more cerebral kind of memory?


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## Pelopra (May 21, 2013)

ninjahitsawall said:


> I see... For whatever reason I've had the impression that Ti was a linear process.. or essentially that T = linear, order while N = randomness, chaos, such that Ti/Ne-Ne/Ti appear more "random" outwardly but are internally more structured, while Ni/Te-Te/Ni appear more structured but are inwardly more "chaotic." (I was also expecting Ni to be similar to Ne in that sense - just reverse the 'direction'.) Alrighty, guess I was off. Ha.



I don't know what it's like for an Ni and tert-or-inf Ti user, but with NeTi it is definitely organized. 
However, it is organized less like a filing cabinet, more like those people with disaster rooms who can't stand to have someone clean up because then they won't know where stuff is. 

I've always liked the image of computer networks for NeTi, all the glowing dots connecting in myriad ways.


Edit: basically, realize that Ti isn't the circles, it's the arrows. So you have a bunch of disconnected circles, and Ne starts suggesting connections and groupings, and Ti gives them an order and direction. (a logically cohesive structure)


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## ferroequinologist (Jul 27, 2012)

Reluctanine said:


> Aw yeah, Lemmings!!!! So when you hear it, does it generate feelings of happiness in you, because it reminds you of the times you spent with your wife? Or is it a more cerebral kind of memory?


Um... I hate to disappoint you, but neither. It does kind of make me want to play Lemmings again, though. ;-) But then, I remember that with later versions of the OS, the Midi sounds broke, so either the songs don't work at all, or play horribly. I've actually tried it in an emulator, but then there are other issues. Plus, the web site version doesn't have the keyboard shortcuts for choosing Lemmings, which makes it useless for any level beyond the begging--even some Tricky ones can't be played if you can't use the keyboard, and also, I need a mouse, not a trackpad, so then I get frustrated remembering all this, and forget any happy memories I had. ;-) But honestly, the best way for me to relive those is to play the game. Simply hearing the music mostly just evokes a simple memory. I wouldn't call that nostalgic or meaningful in any way. I'm not like an elf, for whom the memory is somehow more real than the actual experience. I need the experience. I suppose that would be the difference between Se-Ni vs Ne-Si? I can say this, though. Sometimes my wife and I will talk about Lemmings, (usually after hearing this song playing in the BBC miniseries Pride and Prejudice--Miss Bingley plays it at some ball or something) and we get nostalgic together, but again, all that does is make me want to play again like we did before... Don't know if that helps or not.


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## ScientiaOmnisEst (Oct 2, 2013)

Pelopra said:


> I don't know what it's like for an Ni and tert-or-inf Ti user, but with NeTi it is definitely organized.
> However, it is organized less like a filing cabinet, more like *those people with disaster rooms who can't stand to have someone clean up because then they won't know where stuff is*.


Ha, my TiNe is a lot like this - I particularly like the term "organized chaos" for how my mind works, and could never fully relate to descriptions that say the INTP is "mentally organized", or their "minds are structured", because for me those terms have connotations of Te-like direction and linearity, which my thoughts have anything but.

I think the real root of it is that Ti, like every other introverted function, is subjective, thus unique to the individual. The result: mental organization and its ilk is a matter of _what makes sense to the user_, what is consistent within the user's mental framework, external structures be damned.


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## Pelopra (May 21, 2013)

ferroequinologist said:


> Um... I hate to disappoint you, but neither. It does kind of make me want to play Lemmings again, though. ;-) But then, I remember that with later versions of the OS, the Midi sounds broke, so either the songs don't work at all, or play horribly. I've actually tried it in an emulator, but then there are other issues. Plus, the web site version doesn't have the keyboard shortcuts for choosing Lemmings, which makes it useless for any level beyond the begging--even some Tricky ones can't be played if you can't use the keyboard, and also, I need a mouse, not a trackpad, so then I get frustrated remembering all this, and forget any happy memories I had. ;-) But honestly, the best way for me to relive those is to play the game. Simply hearing the music mostly just evokes a simple memory. I wouldn't call that nostalgic or meaningful in any way. I'm not like an elf, for whom the memory is somehow more real than the actual experience. I need the experience. I suppose that would be the difference between Se-Ni vs Ne-Si? I can say this, though. Sometimes my wife and I will talk about Lemmings, (usually after hearing this song playing in the BBC miniseries Pride and Prejudice--Miss Bingley plays it at some ball or something) and we get nostalgic together, but again, all that does is make me want to play again like we did before... Don't know if that helps or not.


I want some dom - Si users to chime in and agree with the Ne users on this, but my emotional response to music from a game can be extremely strong... It's like I get yanked forcibly backward into reliving whatever my strongest memories from the time I played were. 

And sometimes I can't go back and play a game I was once into, because the atmosphere will have shifted from the time that I played, and the discordance between my memory of what it felt like and what it feels like will be too strong and overwhelming...


Here, a question: Fi and Si both have a sentimentality to them such that they sometimes get confused or confusing to describe differently. What is Fi with Se like?


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## ferroequinologist (Jul 27, 2012)

Pelopra said:


> I want some dom - Si users to chime in and agree with the Ne users on this, but my emotional response to music from a game can be extremely strong... It's like I get yanked forcibly backward into reliving whatever my strongest memories from the time I played were.


You mean how you felt playing the game? Or other non-game related happenings? For me, listening to game music is evocative of the emotion of the game. I don't play lots of games, but Marathon and Halo are the two with music that most do this to me. But there is nothing outside the game that connects to the music. For me, music tends to be more for the music itself. The emotions in and of themselves, without relating them to something else in my life--at least most of the time. I'm sure there are songs that reach deeper into memories of things like what you are saying, but I can't think of any off the top of my head...



> And sometimes I can't go back and play a game I was once into, because the atmosphere will have shifted from the time that I played, and the discordance between my memory of what it felt like and what it feels like will be too strong and overwhelming...


Definitely not that... 



> Here, a question: Fi and Si both have a sentimentality to them such that they sometimes get confused or confusing to describe differently. What is Fi with Se like?


I don't know how sentimental I am... I don't think of myself as too sentimental. I think that maybe that's because I don't live much in the past, nor in the future. Like I said in my earlier post, I listen to the music for how it makes me feel now. Memories don't cut it. Listening to game music, like I said, makes me want to play it again, not remember the fun times from the past. I may want to try to recreate those times now, but not simply get sappy over the past.


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## TruthDismantled (Jan 16, 2013)

As a low introverted sensing user I can add that I actually fail to properly capture old feelings and memories a lot of the time. This can lead me to forgetting why I was once seriously put off by something or why I wrote a particularly personal piece of poetry. I mean I can recall feeling strongly about something, but reading it again just feels kind of embarrassing, like I was melodramatic at the time.

I almost fail to appreciate my past and empathise with my own troubles I've had growing up. I wonder why the hell was I bothered by it, then the same problem can arise again and I think "so THAT'S why!".

Although there are a handful of songs that I use as a kind of emotional high. I stick them on repeat and almost try and sink into the melancholic mood.


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## Quercetin (Dec 5, 2012)

ninjahitsawall said:


> I was also expecting Ni to be similar to Ne in that sense - just reverse the 'direction'.) Alrighty, guess I was off. Ha.


On the Topic of linearity. "As a right-brain function, Introverted Thinking is not conceptual and linear [contra Extraverted Thinking]. It's body-based and wholistic. It operates by way of visual, tactile, or spatial cues, inclining us to reason experimentally rather than analytically." -Lenore Thomson

I should have quoted from her from the start, sorry. You weren't that off, but note the difference in individuals who prefer to use Ti-Se (ISTP) to those who prefer to use Ti-Ne (INTP) as their dominant function.


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## ferroequinologist (Jul 27, 2012)

Quercetin said:


> On the Topic of linearity. "As a right-brain function, Introverted Thinking is not conceptual and linear [contra Extraverted Thinking]. It's body-based and wholistic. It operates by way of visual, tactile, or spatial cues, inclining us to reason experimentally rather than analytically." -Lenore Thomson
> 
> I should have quoted from her from the start, sorry. You weren't that off, but note the difference in individuals who prefer to use Ti-Se (ISTP) to those who prefer to use Ti-Ne (INTP) as their dominant function.


So, if I am understanding/extracting things correctly, introverted judging functions are non-linear, but introverted perceiving functions are linear? and Extroverted judging functions are linear, while extroverted perceiving functions are non-linear?


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## Quercetin (Dec 5, 2012)

ferroequinologist said:


> So, if I am understanding/extracting things correctly, introverted judging functions are non-linear, but introverted perceiving functions are linear? and Extroverted judging functions are linear, while extroverted perceiving functions are non-linear?


That's a really good question. I don't know enough about some of the functions to give you a complete answer. From what I know about the function I use, I can attest your hypothesis above is correct. 

Introverted Judging [Ti, Fi] - Ti is non-linear, I don't know enough about Fi (through experiment at least). Help me out here. 
Extroverted Judging [Te, Fe] - Yes and yes. Linear. 
Introverted Perceiving [Si, Ni] - Ni is very much linear. Si seems linear in theory, but it seems so foreign to me that I can't tell. 
Extroverted Perceiving [Se, Ne] - I know Se is non-linear. An Ne dominant can probably chime in on this, ENTP's are always at the ready.


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## ferroequinologist (Jul 27, 2012)

Quercetin said:


> That's a really good question. I don't know enough about some of the functions to give you a complete answer. From what I know about the function I use, I can attest your hypothesis above is correct.
> 
> Introverted Judging [Ti, Fi] - Ti is non-linear, I don't know enough about Fi (through experiment at least). Help me out here.
> Extroverted Judging [Te, Fe] - Yes and yes. Linear.
> ...


I know that Fi is non-linear--holistic and synthetic for sure. I also know that Se is non-linear. My wife is Ti-Ne, so I can see the same in her as well, but it's the Si where my complete lack of knowledge is. At the moment, I don't know anybody close who exhibits strong Si for me to know... I also guess that I never really thought about Se being non-linear before, but it is (or rather I am) rather sporadic. ;-) Also, I never really thought about Fe being linear before either... So, if this stuff is true, it's something I hadn't realized before--a different facet of it all... I find it weird that the introverted judging functions are opposite the introverted perceiving functions and visa versa for the extroverted functions. For me, that means my two primary functions are non-linear, and two weaker ones linear. I wonder if this has something to do with how the functions align themselves in Theory (the dichotomies--for instance, in my case, introverted judging primary, with aux extroverted perceiving, with introverted perceiving followed by extroverted judging). In other words, your two main functions will both be either linear or non-linear...


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## Quercetin (Dec 5, 2012)

ferroequinologist said:


> it's the Si where my complete lack of knowledge is.


I'm going to read this. Hopefully it helps make sense of it, but I'm unsure.  



ferroequinologist said:


> Also, I never really thought about Fe being linear before either...


I always thought about Fe as going step by step to achieve a tangible goal (group harmony).



ferroequinologist said:


> For me, that means my two primary functions are non-linear, and two weaker ones linear.


Same here. ISTP/INTP 



ferroequinologist said:


> In other words, your two main functions will both be either linear or non-linear...


Interesting. I wonder if someone has discussed this before. I don't like over categorization but lets do it for the dominant functions for fun. 

Dominant function linearity.  

*Guardians* = Linear 
*Artisans* = Non-Linear
*J-Idealists & J-Rationals* = Linear
*P-Rationals & P-Idealists* = Non-Linear

Makes sense to me, lol. Hopefully we can get more feedback from Si dominants as to whether or not it's linear.


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## ferroequinologist (Jul 27, 2012)

I'm on the run, but isn't it even simpler? J-types are linear and P-types non-linear?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ferroequinologist (Jul 27, 2012)

Quercetin said:


> I'm going to read this. Hopefully it helps make sense of it, but I'm unsure.


Ha. Live and don't learn. That's my motto... (like Calvin and Hobbes). I def. don't have Si, but Si certainly seems to work in a linear fashion according to this article. Thanks.


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## monemi (Jun 24, 2013)

MNiS said:


> I can speak only for myself but:
> 
> H:
> 
> ...


Most people can't handle this movie? Since when? It's a classic! How could anyone not enjoy this movie?


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## Kitty.diane (May 12, 2014)

Distort said:


> Was bored so I decided to draw some images to represent each function. Not sure if they're useful or that accurate, but meh, it was for fun. I had trouble most with Si, but it's basically representing two sensory data points, the left one being from the mind's sense-data bank, and the right one being a data point being perceived in the present and compared to the other.


I absolutely love this!!! LOVE!! I think you did a great job with Si. I totally get it. (*may be because my Si sucks. lol)

I dont have time to read the whole thread and this may have already been answered. The only one i have trouble understanding is Fi. (Being an enfp going through a divorce my Fi has been at the front of my mind). Could you explain please? 


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## MNiS (Jan 30, 2010)

monemi said:


> Most people can't handle this movie? Since when? It's a classic! How could anyone not enjoy this movie?


Really? The only reason I could get through it was because it's the most honest depiction of the Vietnam War out of Hollywood.


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## monemi (Jun 24, 2013)

MNiS said:


> Really? The only reason I could get through it was because it's the most honest depiction of the Vietnam War out of Hollywood.


Really? It's one of my favourites! It's very unusual for me to watch a movie more than once and I have a bunch of scenes memorized word for word.


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## MNiS (Jan 30, 2010)

monemi said:


> Really? It's one of my favourites! It's very unusual for me to watch a movie more than once and I have a bunch of scenes memorized word for word.


FMJ was a good movie but of the movies of the Vietnam War, I liked Apocolypse Now the most; even though it was slower paced and kind of strange in some scenes.


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## monemi (Jun 24, 2013)

MNiS said:


> FMJ was a good movie but of the movies of the Vietnam War, I liked Apocolypse Now the most; even though it was slower paced and kind of strange in some scenes.


Apocalypse Now was a good movie too. I like the surfing scene. But it just didn't feel like you were there. The absurd moments in war felt more like bravado than kids at war. Which is really what we're talking about in any war. You don't have a bunch of 30 year olds serving. You're talking 18-25 year olds. The soldiers seem too old in Apocalypse Now. The atmosphere and mood is too mature to be realistic.


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## MNiS (Jan 30, 2010)

monemi said:


> Apocalypse Now was a good movie too. I like the surfing scene. But it just didn't feel like you were there. The absurd moments in war felt more like bravado than kids at war. Which is really what we're talking about in any war. You don't have a bunch of 30 year olds serving. You're talking 18-25 year olds. The soldiers seem too old in Apocalypse Now. The atmosphere and mood is too mature to be realistic.


Lets be real here. Conscription is about drafting poor kids who want their offspring to be well off. There's really no difference between a conscript to a draftee.


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## Sporadic Aura (Sep 13, 2009)

Kitty.diane said:


> I absolutely love this!!! LOVE!! I think you did a great job with Si. I totally get it. (*may be because my Si sucks. lol)
> 
> I dont have time to read the whole thread and this may have already been answered. The only one i have trouble understanding is Fi. (Being an enfp going through a divorce my Fi has been at the front of my mind). Could you explain please?
> 
> ...


The Fi represents having in depth and colorful personal feelings, that don't need to line up with the feelings of values of those that surround you. Compare to Fe which is taking a piece of each point of view from the people they are with, while Fi has their own view.


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