# Single, Double, Triple Withdrawn versus Introversion



## Bluity (Nov 12, 2012)

What is the difference between triple withdrawn and extreme introversion? Is there a difference? Do the withdrawn tritypes stack up to cause extreme introversion, or are they two separate issues? 

Also, what is the difference behavior-wise between a single, double, and triple withdrawn? I'm having a hard time quantifying withdrawnness. Many of the responses I've read of 594s emphasize their avoidance to conflict, but how do you quantify that avoidance? Couldn't a person be extremely withdrawn and yet have only one withdrawn type in their tritype?


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## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

The term 'withdrawn' in Enneagram terms does* not* directly equal introversion, as much as it represents the way(s) in which you fulfill your needs. According to RH, the Hornevian groups are divided into three primary strategies through which you try to get what you want. So the assertive triad tends to 'demand' things through their assertiveness/presence, the compliant triad tries to earn whatever it is they're seeking, and the withdrawn triad simply withdraws. 

Here's something that might clarify further:









I don't really believe that a triple withdrawn will be extremely introverted, it pretty much depends on the individual, and what type is core. Type 9 for instance is still an attachment type, so primarily oriented towards others and likely to adapt to their environment. It's typically ambiverted. Type 4 and 5 definitely are more _introspective _than 9, but I find it hard to quality a type like 4w3 as "introverted", as we tend to oscillate between introversion and extroversion easily, and the 3 wing adds assertiveness into the mix. Type 5 is definitely the most introverted among all three. 

Besides, there are several types of introversion/extroversion (cognitive, and social off the top of my head). So I'd say keeping the two notions separate will save you a lot of trouble. Lol, I feel like my post just added further confusion.


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## Paradigm (Feb 16, 2010)

I do believe there is a vast over-typing between triple-withdrawns and introverts. It's even worse when most of them claim to be SOC-last as well.

Admittedly, this is a hard topic to try to define. Both withdrawns and introverts will stay to themselves, even when problems arise. I think the issue here is to realize that just because one prefers to be by themselves, does not make them a withdrawn type. The larger worldview is more important than the specifics. Much like how enjoying to read does not make one a 5, staying in your house all day does not make you a 459. Almost everyone has a few coping mechanisms that engage the outside world, even if those ways have an introverted slant.

Another thing, this is an instance where I would strongly suggest to take multiple triads into account. I relate to the withdrawn triad even though my weakest fix is 4 and my core type is supposed to be quite extroverted. I am simply not withdrawn, though. I employ the 6w7 coping mechanisms, just in a more inward and quieter way than descriptions would suggest:

I rely on people, but only 2-3 overall; I avoid strangers at all costs, and am known as the one who hides in her room (or reads in a corner) when company is over. When I do decide to participate--a rarity--I'm generally laconic. There are times when I'm more animated, but only when I'm extremely comfortable and the environment is quiet, and my "animated" is low-key and short-lived in comparison to an extrovert. Rejection causes me to leave or emotionally shut down. My w7 wants excitement, which I fulfill by watching others do things or doing things by myself. There are others I enjoy sharing excitement with, but they're relatively few and I'm _very _specific about who is on the "allowed" list. I research often, typically alone, but hold opinions / first-hand accounts in a higher regard (in comparison to a 5, AFAIK). I don't often speak about my anxieties because I would rather not affect anyone with them.

This used to be confused for 9ish behaviors, except that I tend to fight back more often ("CP moments"), am highly anxious when uninformed, and my superego yells at me too much.


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## RoSoDude (Apr 3, 2012)

I'm an introvert in Jungian terms, yet a "compliant" or "superego" type in the Enneagram. I look up to withdrawn types, and I have typed myself as having 9 and 4 in my tritype, but my dominant demeanor is not one of withdrawal. I am introverted in the cognitive sense, in that I am primarily an introverted judger with a strong preference for thinking evaluation (Ti), but this is only tangentially related to what the Enneagram describes. In the Enneagram, I see myself as a 6w5, which is visible in my behavior. The draw of security (and the push from anxiety/fear) is one that I don't deal with in a withdrawn way -- I take on compliant behaviors very much resembling that of a phobic 6. In terms of the other main emotional drives (anger for gut types and shame for heart types), I am more withdrawn.

Introversion is more about the scope of either your perception or your judgment. There's also the idea that it relates to how you gather and dissipate social energy. Being withdrawn is about the way one copes with one's emotional drives. Both are related in some way, but are not mutually dependent.


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## Quernus (Dec 8, 2011)

I think there can be some overlap but there certainly doesn't have to be. While I find it pretty hard to imagine an extroverted 594... it cannot be impossible.

My ex is 1-5-2, INTJ. He is certainly introverted in that he processes things inwardly and requires more alone-time than an extrovert might. But he's an extremely responsive person (1 and 2 are both compliant types, also 6 which is the wing to his 5). He is definitely focused on *earning *what he wants, following and engaging in the right steps or processes for a certain outcome. He's also an SO/SX instinctual type. Despite all this - undeniable introvert. 

It's easier for me to imagine non-withdrawn introverts than withdrawn extroverts, but that definitely happens too. I know an ENFP nine... he's very socially extroverted, outgoing, but he's NEVER aggressive about getting what he wants. If he has a personal need, he'll withdraw from it, but he's still an extrovert on a social level. Interesting.

No but really. Find me a triple withdrawn type who doesn't also identify as an introvert! I'll be intrigued. I'm triple withdrawn AND I'm hugely introverted (socially, cognitively, biologically, and probably in just about any other way one might make the distinction). Sooo, yeah.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

I am double-withdrawn (5w4 and 4w5) and my wings also bleed into another withdrawn type. I definitely relate to both 4 and 5 coping mechanisms of how to deal with conflict. When I feel incompetent or I feel like I do not know or fully understand I become anxious and my immediate response is to withdraw so I can analyze, process and research. If I feel emotionally misunderstood my response is to withdraw from conflict to sulk. If I'm angry however, and I do not feel like I'm in a situation where I'm either a) uncertain of my understanding, knowledge or experience myself as incompetent in some way or b) emotionally misunderstood, I will probably stay and even escalate the conflict or potentially go off and pick conflicts with random people. 

That I also happened to be socially introverted could part be explained by being type 5 that is often described as hermit-like due to the nature of avarice, although I don't think every 5 has to be socially introverted as well although it's probably common. That I'm socially introverted, cognitively introverted and a withdrawn type are all coincidental though. I don't think there must be a correlation between these three things.


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## Bluity (Nov 12, 2012)

kaleidoscope said:


> Lol, I feel like my post just added further confusion.


Actually your post clarified a lot. Thank you. I suspected that the two issues were separate, so the conflation between the two confused me. I've seen some people claim that their double/triple withdrawn tritype made them "extra withdrawn". How can one be "extra" withdrawn? I also did not know that Horevian triads were applied to all relations and not just conflict.

This is the first time I've heard of several types of introversion. I know the word has a specific meaning in MBTI, but could you elaborate on the different types?


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## pizzapie (Oct 23, 2012)

shameless thread promotion

Withdrawn is more of having a wall between yourself and others, typically unintentionally, that is just impossible for you to cross with random strangers or even with people you're close to. Introversion is being drained by social activity. I think they're linked. I don't think you can really be a triple withdrawn and an extrovert, maybe an Ne dom but even then, I still find it a little difficult to see. 

I find that as a probable triple withdrawn it's difficult to tell people really anything. There's this vulnerability that comes along with opening up, even in the slightest, because for so long you've built this wall around yourself that no one has dared to cross but then one day you decide to step outside of it. Most of the time nothing bad comes out of it and most of the time it feels good to open up to other people and express things, but it's a really long process. Each time is like going back to square one--it never seems to get any easier.

My best friend is an introvert and she doesn't have this problem. She's much more open than I am and comfortable telling people her thoughts and expressing emotion, and she gets frustrated with me because I can't do the same as easily as she can, and even with her, _my best friend_, I have trouble opening up to her because I just..can't. There's literally no reason other than my own insecurity and constant desire to remain invisible and unnoticed while at the same time desperately wanting people to think well of me but not wanting to step outside my comfort zone in order to cause that.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

pizzapie said:


> Withdrawn is more of having a wall between yourself and others, typically unintentionally, that is just impossible for you to cross with random strangers or even with people you're close to.


I understood this as being social last for myself so could you clarify how this differs from so blind spot? I see that you type as sp/so.


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## pizzapie (Oct 23, 2012)

LeaT said:


> I understood this as being social last for myself so could you clarify how this differs from so blind spot? I see that you type as sp/so.


I see being a social type more as understanding social norms and what is right and wrong under society's eyes, not so much sociali_zing_ although social types do tend to be more social. Social types can "feel" the atmosphere of places, and that's not to say others can't, but social types can easily see how they fit into the picture and how certain acts will be received by the atmosphere around them, determining in their head what is okay to do in a certain moment and what is not.


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## Paradigm (Feb 16, 2010)

pizzapie said:


> Withdrawn is more of having a wall between yourself and others, typically unintentionally, that is just impossible for you to cross with random strangers or even with people you're close to.


Yeah, I hate to nitpick, but this isn't a sign of being triple-withdrawn. _Everyone _I know complains that I do this, even the people I trust the most. This trait could come from multiple sources, including trauma, conditioning, E-type, MBTI, and/or mere temperament. 

As for this:


> There's this vulnerability that comes along with opening up, even in the slightest, because for so long you've built this wall around yourself that no one has dared to cross but then one day you decide to step outside of it. Most of the time nothing bad comes out of it and most of the time it feels good to open up to other people and express things, but it's a really long process. Each time is like going back to square one--it never seems to get any easier.


I've pretty much posted the same thing myself in the past. I guess at most it might be correlated to a 4(w5?) fix, but, as we all know, correlation =/= causation.


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## pizzapie (Oct 23, 2012)

Paradigm said:


> Yeah, I hate to nitpick, but this isn't a sign of being triple-withdrawn. _Everyone _I know complains that I do this, even the people I trust the most. This trait could come from multiple sources, including trauma, conditioning, E-type, MBTI, and/or mere temperament.


DON'T RAIN ON MY FREAKING PARADE.

To nitpick in return, I didn't say triple withdrawn, rather just withdrawn, which doesn't even have to mean you're a withdrawn type.



> As for this:
> 
> I've pretty much posted the same thing myself in the past. I guess at most it might be correlated to a 4(w5?) fix, but, as we all know, correlation =/= causation.


It can apply to really anyone regardless of type. I was just sharing how I felt as a triple withdrawn, it wasn't an exclusive thing. I know that.


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## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

Bluity said:


> Actually your post clarified a lot. Thank you. I suspected that the two issues were separate, so the conflation between the two confused me. I've seen some people claim that their double/triple withdrawn tritype made them "extra withdrawn". How can one be "extra" withdrawn? I also did not know that Horevian triads were applied to all relations and not just conflict.
> 
> This is the first time I've heard of several types of introversion. I know the word has a specific meaning in MBTI, but could you elaborate on the different types?


Ah, I'm glad! Yeah, I once saw a triple withdrawn explain their tritype by saying they hadn't seen anyone in weeks, LOL. People automatically assume withdrawn = introverted when it isn't really the case. Anyway, to answer your other question:

*Social I/E:* The one you typically hear about and what people usually mean when they speak of their introversion/extroversion levels. According to that definition, introverts don't have a lot of friends, like lots of time alone, prefer quiet environments, etc. Extroversion are always doing something, hanging out with their friends, throwing parties, whatever. 

*Cognitive I/E:* It's a matter of where your focus is, your inner world or the outer world. What are you normally attuned to? According to that definition, introverts will tend to feel a greater dissatisfaction with the world as they'll be much more attuned to how it clashes with their internal set of ideas/ideals. They will have a hard time reconciling both. Extroverts are more engaged with reality and their environment, and so more adaptable/receptive in that sense. Cognitive I/E isn't necessarily correlated with social I/E, meaning your focus can be more outwards while _still_ preferring lots of down time, and not having a wide circle of friends. 

Social I/E is typical MBTI/Keirsey. Cognitive I/E is more JCF. Hope that made sense


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## Paradigm (Feb 16, 2010)

pizzapie said:


> DON'T RAIN ON MY FREAKING PARADE.
> To nitpick in return, I didn't say triple withdrawn, rather just withdrawn, which doesn't even have to mean you're a withdrawn type.


Heh, sorry :tongue: Your post in its entirety made me, uh, "concerned" as to your meaning. A lot of the reasonings people try to use for explaining their triple-withdrawnness are often explained by the more mundane. Don't mean to pick on you; I've rained on many 459's parades by strongly relating to their experiences.

Anyways, I sincerely do hate nitpicking, so I'll just go on my way.


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## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

Paradigm said:


> Anyways, I sincerely do hate nitpicking, so I'll just go on my way.


Awh, don't go Para. I liketh you :sad:


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## Paradigm (Feb 16, 2010)

kaleidoscope said:


> Awh, don't go Para. I liketh you :sad:


Don't worry, I'll be waiting in the shadows for a chance to strike once again!

>_> Or can only core withdrawns hide in shadows? Now I feel left out.


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## Bluity (Nov 12, 2012)

pizzapie said:


> To nitpick in return, I didn't say triple withdrawn, rather just withdrawn, which doesn't even have to mean you're a withdrawn type.


This is what confuses me when I read threads dedicated to the 594 tritype. People interchange "withdrawn" in the casual sense with the Withdrawn Types of the Hornevian triads. Ultimately aren't 594s still core 5s, 945 core 9s, etc? So people with the same tritype may have little in common (though I suppose that's true for types in general). And the tritype description certainly doesn't help:



> Tritype 5-4-9: shy, somewhat fragile and a bit romantic, such Fives tend to put on a congenial façade to hide their rich inner worlds from the society. They outwardly appear friendly but reserved, usually mysterious to other people who sense there is more depth and intensity hidden behind their amiable mask. These Fives have rich imaginations and love to immerse themselves in thoughts and fantasies. They are introspective, dreamy, creative and socially withdrawn, but also disorganized and painfully avoidant.
> typical subtypes: self-preserving, sexual, 5w4
> similar tritypes: 5-9-4, 9-5-4, 4-5-9
> flavours: insightful, imaginative, enigmatic and unstructured


If it wasn't for the painful avoidant bit I wouldn't have described the tritype as "withdrawn" at all. Just a shy, gentle spirit lost in fantasy. It's too vague and doesn't go into details about how the subtypes interact with each other. How do the other withdrawn types in the trityes affect the core? Does the..."withdrawness" stack, or what?


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## Sonny (Oct 14, 2008)

Meh, I'm a double-withdrawn and a Ne dom Extrovert (ENTP), as well as a So dom.

I'm not the most sociable person by a long shot, I have my moments, but I am a typical Extrovert as in my primary function is externally focused and am energised by external stimuli. 

I'm not shy, socially awkward or anything like that, and I have my hyper moments and highly sociable moments where I get super charged with energy because of it, I'll chat to strangers about anything and everything and adore it, I withdraw from others is all. On the outside my core 9 moves towards/with others, but internally I pull away and withdraw into myself. When something goes wrong I don't seek out other people to talk to, I withdraw and shut down any chance for people to get through, I'm iron in that. I dealt with major depression and a major life altering challenge for about 2 years, and throughout that time I did not speak to a single soul about it, I put on my happy face in public, and withdraw into my own space at every opportunity.

I'm an Extrovert, however most people who know me well used the term "introvert" to describe me when I polled them in a nohari/johari test a number of years ago. I'm an Extrovert, yet I can shut myself away from people for months on end, I need external stimulation, and I like people but my desire to withdraw into myself and my own space because I don't want to open up to others is powerful. I am very open in most things, however I am also very hard to get through to, most people around me don't fully realise this (I don't think).

And like @kaleidoscope said, 9 isn't associated with typical introversion like 4 and 5 often are, it's quite ambiverted.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

As for 9s being socially ambiverted: The reason for this is quite easily explained as 9 being a gut type and gut types are defined as so because they are the most attuned with their bodies and as such, are the most capable of taking action, do things and make things happen. 9s in particular tend to probably not experience themselves as particularly energetic as a whole but still get a lot of things done because it can become a way for them to maintain their positive outlook for instance.


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