# The "default to 4" problem



## vandieu (Aug 22, 2015)

Type 4 is among the least frequent enneagram types, sx 4 even more so, yet it is this exact type that has become the most popular type to self-type as.
I'd wager that the vast majority of people that type themselves as 4 (to a lesser degree 5 as well) online are some other type. Any person with strong sx, an individualist streak, and/or some emotional troubles can look like a 4 on the surface.
Most people (at least in the West) want to see themselves as unique and special, even gifted. Humans, being mimetic creatures, naturally want the most interesting or impressive labels to apply to themselves. Thus why someone reading about enneagram for the first time might see the descriptions of 4 as being the tragic, romantic and artistic type and, not having thoroughly reflected on their character or mental preoccupations, automatically convince themselves that they are this type.
So don't assume you are a 4 just because you enjoy painting or writing, or have taken a rejection badly, or are a fan of The Smiths or Marilyn Manson. The enneagram types are ultimately just labels, so are fluid and capable of taking on aspects of other types.


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## lametaoist (Mar 25, 2017)

vandieu said:


> Type 4 is among the least frequent enneagram types, sx 4 even more so, yet it is this exact type that has become the most popular type to self-type as.
> I'd wager that the vast majority of people that type themselves as 4 (to a lesser degree 5 as well) online are some other type. Any person with strong sx, an individualist streak, and/or some emotional troubles can look like a 4 on the surface.
> Most people (at least in the West) want to see themselves as unique and special, even gifted. Humans, being mimetic creatures, naturally want the most interesting or impressive labels to apply to themselves. Thus why someone reading about enneagram for the first time might see the descriptions of 4 as being the tragic, romantic and artistic type and, not having thoroughly reflected on their character or mental preoccupations, automatically convince themselves that they are this type.
> So don't assume you are a 4 just because you enjoy painting or writing, or have taken a rejection badly, or are a fan of The Smiths or Marilyn Manson. The enneagram types are ultimately just labels, so are fluid and capable of taking on aspects of other types.


What is your basis for saying that it is the least frequent Enneagram type? There is no empirically valid test for Enneagram, so there is no way to accurately determine distribution statistics. There is no way to know which is the most or least common type. There is no reason to assume that the types are not evenly distributed, or if they are not, which is the most or least common type.


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## nablur (Mar 9, 2017)

they certainly are the type to wish they were least common


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## ewdenore (Nov 16, 2017)

I wonder if it's the other way around. 4s have a feeling of being different and are therefore more likely to become interested in personality so they actually are overrepresented in the enneagram community. Other types are more interested in just living their lives and less likely to go looking for insights into their own personality, so they're underrepresented.


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## ericajoy (May 20, 2011)

A story I have about the abundance of selftyped 4s on the forum is that many of us live in a culture (US, maybe others) where isolation and depression are common experiences that many people keep secret. A lot of people are aware of a sadness or alienation that they don’t show the world, so they type as 4, because they think this is who they are... They are afraid that if they show this part they won’t get love. But type 4s SHOW this part of themselves. They LEAD with this part. It is their persona. Not a part they are hiding.


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## SigningBeast (Nov 23, 2018)

Can someone explain to me enneagram types?


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## Figure (Jun 22, 2011)

There are a lot of people who BS self-type as 4's, but also as 3, 5, 7, and 8 - possibly even more so than 4. 

Self-typing on forums screws a bit with our self-concepts, and there isn't much that can be done about it without pinning people to fruitless ideals. It's human nature to want to know what type we are and hope it's something that we can proudly post up on an avatar or a signature line, or that we feel empowered, notable, or respected to show publicly. 

There are definitely some people where self-typing brings out their worst imagistic habits, but I think there are a lot of other people as well who self-type in good faith, and simply choose the type they feel they relate with best from a description, or choose the type they got on an online test. There are folks who are quite comfortable and confident in their self-typing, but haven't yet noticed a cluster of habits that would entirely unwind their self-concept as that type if they became aware. There are also a LOT of people who are correctly typed (as 4's, or otherwise) but completely oblivious to degree to which they are the type, and/or not aware of the extent to which their type drives their life. 

I've said for a long time on this forum that the importance of correctly self-typing was highly over-emphasized. What you have to gain from the Enneagram and what makes it worthwhile _doesn't come from knowing which type you are_. It comes from having the ability to objectively assess what's going on in your moment and become increasingly present with it. Knowing which type you are is helpful in mapping out some unique challenges you may encounter in that, because of the unique biases of the type - but the goal of types 1-9 is essentially the same reconnection with presence, and knowledge of what's true for us in a given moment.

With that, I think it's fine that a lot of people see aspects of themselves in type 4 even if they aren't 4's. If someone isn't a 4, but learns something impactful and truthful about themselves in reading about 4's, why would we discourage that part of their journey or push them to look at something else we think is their "real type?"

What's crucial is to continuously hone the ability to accurately self-observe - and* that* is what is rampantly missing from this forum and online enneagram communities.


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## Janna (Aug 31, 2018)

I think that Fours are just overrepresented in these kinds of forums. I also noticed that in my country's enneagram FB group Fours were the most common type, whereas we couldn't find any Fours at all when we did an enneagram workshop at my job. It's not a type that most people can see themselves in; it seems to be a type that's typical specifically among enneagram enthusiasts.

There was just another thread where people were discussing whether Nine is what anybody can easily be mistyped as, supposedly because almost anybody can fit the superficial interpretation of the Nine descriptions. I think that this is at least partly an illusion in both cases: Fours think that Four-like qualities are so normal that it's easy to mistype as a Four, Nines think the same about being a Nine.


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## Daeva (Apr 18, 2011)

It is rather ironic, but the root of the problem stems from the top.


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## Veni Vidi Vici (Jun 8, 2018)

It is the type I identify with the least. I would understand 4 better if instead of uniqueness it is really about authenticity.


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## Kintsugi (May 17, 2011)

This is quite funny though, in context.

Just sayin' :tongue:


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## Just Peachy (Jan 2, 2018)

I've been wondering if I could be a core type 9, even if I usually test as a 4. I might look into it again and retest.


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## AncientOak (Nov 21, 2018)

I think there's some truth to the assertion that a lot of people mistype as 4s. I was in an Enneagram course, led by one of the major teachers of the Enneagram in the nation, and worked with a private teacher on the Enneagram, and this teacher, even though she was a Type 4 herself, seemed reticent for quite a while to agree with my self-typing as a Four. From things she and the primary teacher were saying, I understood that in their experience, it was common for people to mistype as Fours. It was only when we began talking about the fixation of the Type 4, Envy, and I explained how significant this fixation was in my life, that she then grokked, and understood I was a Type 4. 

Which goes to my point, that it's not that useful to try to type yourself by some of the typical (but often vague) attributes assigned to the types. To really get to the heart of things, work on identifying your fixation. Any type can be an artist, unique, inventive, self-pitying, obsessed, depressed. Those things in themselves do not add up to Type 4. It's the fixation, the envy at the heart of the personality, that is more of a key to this type.


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## Jaune (Jul 11, 2013)

I see both sides to the "default to 4" problem. For one, 4s are definitely going to be on typology-related communities more often than you would spot them in every day life. (Same with 5s.) This sort of personality-related introspection would just be something that appeals to them.

That being said, 4 is definitely a common mistype. There are a lot of appealing characteristics, and a lot of vague characteristics, in many of the descriptions.
Not everyone is into the idea of tritype, but I am and I think that a lot of 4 fixes mistake it as their core. If it's not the last fix, I think it's really easy to see your image fix more apparently than your core, and I have seen this commonly happen in head cores with 4 fixes.

As for me, I type as a 4 now, but for a while I have been reluctant to do so. I don't fit the artist stereotype very well and I don't consider myself to be very creative in most ways. And I did not want to be one of those "mistyped 4s" (well, it's possible I am right now, but I really hope not). When I just started, I used to type as a 5 or 9 based on stereotypes. Going off of what the person above me said, I had to realize that I am actually fixated on the Type 4 envy and longing before I started typing as a 4. A lot of people don't realize that it's not just a desire to define yourself as unique.


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## Handsome Dyke (Oct 4, 2012)

I thought 6 was sort of the default type.


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## malignantmongrel (Jan 20, 2017)

Janna said:


> whereas we couldn't find any Fours at all when we did an enneagram workshop at my job.


This is because the professionals have weeded out most of the non-4s. There is a reason why they only seem to come up with so many 6s in those workshops.


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## malignantmongrel (Jan 20, 2017)

AncientOak said:


> It was only when we began talking about the fixation of the Type 4, Envy, and I explained how significant this fixation was in my life, that she then grokked, and understood I was a Type 4.
> 
> Which goes to my point, that it's not that useful to try to type yourself by some of the typical (but often vague) attributes assigned to the types. To really get to the heart of things, work on identifying your fixation. Any type can be an artist, unique, inventive, self-pitying, obsessed, depressed. Those things in themselves do not add up to Type 4. It's the fixation, the envy at the heart of the personality, that is more of a key to this type.


The 4's fixation is melancholy not envy.


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## Surreal Snake (Nov 17, 2009)

malignantmongrel said:


> The 4's fixation is melancholy not envy.


Full of black bile eh. I agree Type. 4 more about melancholy than envy


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## Janna (Aug 31, 2018)

malignantmongrel said:


> This is because the professionals have weeded out most of the non-4s. There is a reason why they only seem to come up with so many 6s in those workshops.


Also because this is not the type of job that Fours seem to enjoy. We had a whole bunch of Eights and Threes; business management is right up their alley.


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## malignantmongrel (Jan 20, 2017)

Surreal Snake said:


> Type. 4 more about melancholy than envy


I meant that it the 4's fixation is literally listed as melancholy. The 4's passion is envy.


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