# I'd give a limb to be able to sing well...



## Alice Alipheese (Aug 16, 2019)

i think we are all forgetting to ask the important question here, which limb?


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## Dr Whoresy (Nov 7, 2018)

Alice Alipheese said:


> i think we are all forgetting to ask the important question here, which limb?


Would it matter which? :Wink:

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## IDontThinkSo (Aug 24, 2011)

DrEquine said:


> I would give anything to be able to sing


Yet you wouldn't give yourself a serious singing routine to follow. Sounds like you have zero awareness of what it is to work for a skill and aren't willing to change that.


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## Dr Whoresy (Nov 7, 2018)

IDontThinkSo said:


> Yet you wouldn't give yourself a serious singing routine to follow. Sounds like you have zero awareness of what it is to work for a skill and aren't willing to change that.


I would if I felt it could do anything. I honestly think I might be one of those people who was never meant to sing.

I also feel I can't improve without the help of a vocal coach or input from one which is something I don't have the luxury of getting right now.

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## IDontThinkSo (Aug 24, 2011)

DrEquine said:


> I would if I felt it could do anything. I honestly think I might be one of those people who was never meant to sing.


So you're one of those people who was never meant to work for a skill. I guess your fate is to lament and do nothing.


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## Dr Whoresy (Nov 7, 2018)

IDontThinkSo said:


> So you're on of those people who was never meant to work for a skill.


Why are you assuming things about me? Spending hours a day playing the guitar trying to learn it isn't working for a skill?

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## IDontThinkSo (Aug 24, 2011)

All I know is that you're waiting after someone to teach you vocals and a path that involves no personal responsibility for your failure, so how does that differ with the way you approach guitar? Are you any good? Can you pick your own challenges and exercises, or are you one of those who open a topic to complain about how one of their finger is shorter than average and ruins their future as a guitarist?


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## Dr Whoresy (Nov 7, 2018)

IDontThinkSo said:


> All I know is that you're waiting after someone to teach you vocals and a path that involves no personal responsibility for your failure, so how does that differ with the way you approach guitar? Are you any good? Can you pick your own challenges and exercises, or are you one of those who open a topic to complain about how one of their finger is shorter than average and ruins their future as a guitarist?


I simply try to play songs with chords I know and practice chords I have trouble playing. If I had the means to pay for a music teacher, I would.

You simply came here and told me I don't try at all and didn't give any constructive advice whatsoever. If you give constructive advice, I'll listen. Teaching myself to sing is hard because:

1. I'm embarrassed people will hear me.

2. Everytime I hear myself sing, it feels like a personal failure, whereas when I try to play the guitar and don't sound as good, I know it's simply because I haven't practiced enough and that I'll get better. Singing is more difficult for me because some people are just born with it, so for me, it feels like a failure to not be able to sing.




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## IDontThinkSo (Aug 24, 2011)

Everybody is born with it. You just lost it. *Male* opera singing is just a neutral larynx, not high or low, vocal cords joined, otherwise it's falsetto, AND the back of the tongue that touches the upper molars above to direct the air flow towards the palate. It doesn't even take much breath unless you do it the wrong way, which is to try and sing higher by pushing more air. You don't need a coach to learn that just brain ears and courage.


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## Dr Whoresy (Nov 7, 2018)

IDontThinkSo said:


> Everybody is born with it. You just lost it. *Male* opera singing is just a neutral larynx, not high or low, vocal cords joined, otherwise it's falsetto, AND the back of the tongue that touches the upper molars above to direct the air flow towards the palate. It doesn't even take much breath unless you do it the wrong way, which is to try and sing higher by pushing more air. You don't need a coach to learn that just brain ears and courage.


Everytime I try to do a vocal scale, I just hear my voice crack so early in that the task of fixing it seems so far out of reach.

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## Dr Whoresy (Nov 7, 2018)

IDontThinkSo said:


> Everybody is born with it. You just lost it. *Male* opera singing is just a neutral larynx, not high or low, vocal cords joined, otherwise it's falsetto, AND the back of the tongue that touches the upper molars above to direct the air flow towards the palate. It doesn't even take much breath unless you do it the wrong way, which is to try and sing higher by pushing more air. You don't need a coach to learn that just brain ears and courage.


I get through do re and mi before my voice starts cracking.

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## IDontThinkSo (Aug 24, 2011)

Scales to learn and sing high? Wrong method. Try something else, be creative and mentally involved. Most coaches know jackshit and will only mislead you, teaching things that don't exist such as head, chest and mixed voice.


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## Dr Whoresy (Nov 7, 2018)

IDontThinkSo said:


> Scales to learn and sing high? Wrong method. Try something else, be creative and mentally involved. Most coaches know jackshit and will only mislead you, teaching things that don't exist such as head, chest and mixed voice.


What do you mean head, chest, and mixed voice. I'm just curious.

It seems most places online recommend singing scales. I'll try to find something else though

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## IDontThinkSo (Aug 24, 2011)

DrEquine said:


> What do you mean head, chest, and mixed voice. I'm just curious.


Head chest and mixed voices are based on the fallacy that feeling more vibrations in the chest when producing low notes is the result of a specific technique, in opposition to one that is used to sing high but sounds weak, rather than the fact that low frequencies will shake your body more at similar perceived loudness whatever the source of noise. From this misunderstanding appeared the belief that singing high without weakening the voice is about using both techniques at once, which they often call mixed voice, or reinforced head voice, so most srudents search in vain for a way to feel the vibrations in the chest and the head (= not in the chest) at the same time.

The reality is different. When you stretch your vocal cords to sing higher, at some point the thyroid cartilage toggles down. If you aren't used to yell in this position (like babies do), you won't be able to keep the vocal cords connected. When they don't connect enough, the voice loses its harmonic edges, it sounds sounds weak, falsetto. But you can disconnect them independantly from the position of the cartilage, hence the pitch of the note. It's a different ability. 

What people call head voice is the toggled cartilage minus the vocal cords. It makes a high weak voice. What they call chest voice is the cartilage in its default position, with connected cords. What they call mixed is not all of that at once, or singing louder. It's toggling the cartilage while keeping the cords connected. The tenor operatic voice is this configuration, with a specific position of the larynx and tongue which aren't hard to modify once you learned how to toggle the cartilage without disconnecting the cords.


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## Dr Whoresy (Nov 7, 2018)

IDontThinkSo said:


> Head chest and mixed voices are based on the fallacy that feeling more vibrations in the chest when producing low notes is the result of a specific technique, in opposition to one that is used to sing high but sounds weak, rather than the fact that low frequencies will shake your body more at similar perceived loudness whatever the source of noise. From this misunderstanding appeared the belief that singing high without weakening the voice is about using both techniques at once, which they often call mixed voice, or reinforced head voice, so most srudents search in vain for a way to feel the vibrations in the chest and the head (= not in the chest) at the same time.
> 
> The reality is different. When you stretch your vocal cords to sing higher, at some point the thyroid cartilage toggles down. If you aren't used to yell in this position (like babies do), you won't be able to keep the vocal cords connected. When they don't connect enough, the voice loses its harmonic edges, it sounds sounds weak, falsetto. But you can disconnect them independantly from the position of the cartilage, hence the pitch of the note. It's a different ability.
> 
> What people call head voice is the toggled cartilage minus the vocal cords. It makes a high weak voice. What they call chest voice is the cartilage in its default position, with connected cords. What they call mixed is not all of that at once, or singing louder. It's toggling the cartilage while keeping the cords connected. The tenor operatic voice is this configuration, with a specific position of the larynx and tongue which aren't hard to modify once you learned how to toggle the cartilage without disconnecting the cords.


Are you a singer? It seems you have the knowledge so it wouldn't at all surprise me. Do you have any tips or know of any exercises?

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## 74893H (Dec 27, 2017)

Sure you can sing, it just takes practice and a bit of intuition to work out how to do better. Your diaphragm is your magic muscle when it comes to singing, and you just need to give it a work out by practicing. More practice = stronger diaphragm = better voice control = better singing. Then you just need to know when you're singing well and when you're singing bad, what you were doing differently each time, and use that to improve as well. Or you could get a coach, that'd probably be more reliable, but that was how I got to be able to sing somewhat semi-competently.

I wouldn't worry about your lung capacity either, the great thing about music is that any weakness can be made into a strength. Any "bad" sound can be polished and re-worked into something great without changing what it fundamentally is. Think of your short lung capacity as what gives your voice flavour. How can you use that to make your singing pleasing to listen to? There's a way. If it necessitates singing in shorter bursts, could you work that into some kind of style unique to you? If it necessitates singing more softly or quietly, that's a flavour all of its own. You might not be able to belt like certain singers, but you can soothe and lull people with your voice instead. Some of my favourite singers have that kind of style.

You may or may not be able to sing like the people you linked, I don't really know enough about singing to say, but even if you can't, you can still create a voice for yourself that's uniquely yours. There are plenty of "pure emotion" singers out there already, you could create something entirely of your own. I can't think of any way better to express your feelings than with your own voice, rather than with someone else's who happened to inspire you.


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## IDontThinkSo (Aug 24, 2011)

DrEquine said:


> Are you a singer? It seems you have the knowledge so it wouldn't at all surprise me. Do you have any tips or know of any exercises?


I'm just someone who likes to understand and gain new skills. Complex movements are made of simple movements. The main work you must do is to isolate them and gain separate control before they're being put together. 1 reach a high note without getting loud. Even if you sound like a mosquito it doesn't matter. Work on your tessitura. 2 train your cords to stay connected at this pitch, even under more air pressure, also train to disconnect/reconnect them at will. 3 train the larynx to go up and down in this situation and find the neutral point. 4 train your tongue postition so that it deflects the air flow towards the palate. 5 only then, train to change pitch and control the notes which are just at the height where you need to toggle the cartilage (the famous passaggio).


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## IDontThinkSo (Aug 24, 2011)

Any serious technician who learnt many techniques after having developped their adult voice will tell you the same thing. You won't learn to control new techniques by singing scales, instead you have to work on 1 note in particular. Connecting the notes and registers/techyniques is being worked on at the end.


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## contradictionary (Apr 1, 2018)

Haha, i was just teasing you, dr.

You realize there are online vocal teachers right, they may suit your particular arrangement required :winks:

Just an example i found when browsing for disturbed's performance on conan:






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## Dr Whoresy (Nov 7, 2018)

IDontThinkSo said:


> Any serious technician who learnt many techniques after having developped their adult voice will tell you the same thing. You won't learn to control new techniques by singing scales, instead you have to work on 1 note in particular. Connecting the notes and registers/techyniques is being worked on at the end.


How do I figure out which note to work on first?


contradictionary said:


> Haha, i was just teasing you, dr.
> 
> You realize there are online vocal teachers right, they may suit your particular arrangement required :winks:
> 
> ...


You're fine! How good of a microphone do you have to have for them to get an accurate reading of your voice?

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