# Fear of being a bad person.



## Angelic Gardevoir (Oct 7, 2010)

In case people aren't aware, I have an anxiety disorder that manifests in crying spells among other worse symptoms at times. I've been told that it basically falls under Generalized Anxiety Disorder, but I think that may be because that's the closest thing they have in the DSM right now. Anyway, one of things I have anxiety over is whether or not I'm hurting someone or if someone thinks I'm a terrible person for one reason or another. 

So...I've been getting into some debates on PerC, and I'm not sure why I'm even continuing. I initially joined this forum years ago to build up my own confidence, and I wasn't doing so bad with it. Then I took a break and came back. Since the death of my grandparents, I think my anxiety may have worsened in some ways. Even so, I tried getting into discussions again. 

But the thing is, I'm terrible with this...especially with moral debates. If I try to argue that the death penalty might be a possibility for the worst rapists or murderers for instance, and I see a barrage of people saying that it's wrong, I can't help but think: Are they responding to _me_? Do they view me as a monster? The same goes for another thread about the age of consent I posted in. I made a case where it could be ambiguous because the age difference was small, but when someone responded to it I was wondering, "_Holy fuck am I rape apologist now? Am I condoning rape?_"

I want to do the right thing. But there are things that aren't so clear cut that people have differing opinions on, and I fear that I could be wrong...and not just wrong, but a cruel human being. 

I hope this thread wasn't a mistake...:crying: (Literal actual tears right now.)


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## Cephalonimbus (Dec 6, 2010)

The fact that you're worried about this in the first place is a clear indicator of a desire to be a good person. Maybe you aren't the best person you could possible be just yet, but then again, who is? Sounds to me you're on the right track, and that's what really matters.

It's okay to disagree with people and there's no need for judgment... nobody has ever been right all the time in debates, particularly when it comes to complex moral issues: If there was an ultimate answer we could all agree upon, debates wouldn't exist in the first place. It doesn't even really matter if you're right or wrong in a debate. IMO what's a much stronger sign of character is a willingness to question yourself and if necessary change your perspective when you gather new information, and you're obviously doing that. That doesn't make you a bad person at all, it just means you changed your mind, and nothing more. Good people change their minds all the time... it's the ones who never do who you have to look out for 

I guess the easy answer is to not take it personally and stop being so hard on yourself, but I understand that's easier said than done for someone who suffers from anxiety and low confidence. Maybe getting involved in heated debates isn't such a good idea at such an emotional time in your life? That's up to you of course but IMO it's not worth it if it's causing you to feel terrible about yourself. I mean, posting your opinions in a debate thread is guaranteed to expose yourself to criticism, and if you have too much anxiety right now to process that criticism without beating yourself down and taking it as a rejection of you as a person rather than just a disagreement on an opinion, then it isn't constructive and it's probably better to avoid those threads until you feel more confident. Either way, just know you're alright


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## raskoolz (May 26, 2014)

Well, tbh I don't really know what to say. I too end up worrying and wondering far too often about how others view me, and generally I wonder if I am ever really educated, or morally lucid enough to form any opinion on any specific topic- whether irl or online.

However, I'll try my best to give you a thoughtful response based on my own limited experience and perspective:

No matter how you look at it, at any given time you will find yourself being wrong about a number of many given things. It is not something we can really prevent, since it is inevitable. We are not perfect, and our flaws are a by-product of what makes us human.

The question is not really whether or not you will make a mistake, it's really "when" and "how". Being part of the human condition generally means making mistakes, and (hopefully) trying to grow from it and proceeding in the way you perceive to be best- so I wouldn't worry too much about trying to prevent mistakes. 

Rather, I would suggest seeing it as an opportunity to grow and widen your perspective. One of the greatest advice someone has ever told me is that "everyone is entitled to make mistakes- given they try to learn from it"

At the end of the day, I believe no one really gets anything 100% right anyway. If people did, most of the problems we create would be solved.

However, deciding whether you want to be a kinder, better person is a choice- and I think that counts for something, even if it's an intangible thing people external to you may not be able to quantify of measure. It is not a choice everyone subscribes to- whether because they may see it as a useless exercise, or as something irrelevant, but I think it is one of those things that makes life worth it.

So in some regards, having the silent confidence and conviction of trying to pursue what is right and what is good, regardless of other's people perspective of you has some merit. 

Sure, you may end up being proven wrong on any number of occasions, but I feel that as long as you desire to be kind-to be a good person, and to find truth, as long as those intentions are pure, I believe you will eventually find yourself inching closer and closer in the right direction regardless of the faults you make.

Please try not to be too hard on yourself. I hope that constantly remembering that everyone is a work-in-progress in one way or another will help set your mind at ease.


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## Wellsy (Oct 24, 2011)

I still get anxiety in some of those back and forths, less so about being right or wrong but more the feeling of an obligation to respond and to have to go to all the effort of thinking about it to give a somewhat comprehensible response XD

I imagine that issue here is beliefs and expectations, perhaps your past experiences have instilled in you an expectation that things will go wrong and when they go wrong things you don't want to happen occur, not necessarily true but speculation of how this in part might've begun.

*So what do you feel like you expect if you were to make a mistake or there was miscommunication of ideas? 
*Because I tend to think our expectation is a lot more stressful than enduring somethings, like I work myself up a hell of a lot more than how I feel enduring the worst case scenario at times XD


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## Pressed Flowers (Oct 8, 2014)

I've been diagnosed with GAD (although I don't know much about it except that I have it), and... Yeah, I relate. I've actually closed the non-personality discussions on my PerC screen, because debates about moral things and humanity get me going like nothing else can/does. I also came to PersonalityCafe to have interesting discussions and not think about trauma, so it was a bit off-putting when I was crying over a discussion here in a public place. 

I really do suggest that you not engage in these discussions, at least for a time. A topic asking what color your favorite house is? Fine to participate in. A topic casually talking about movies? Also fine. But the controversial hot spots might be best to avoid. 

Also... Don't know if this helps at all, but really you are not at all a bad person. In any way. As someone has already said, if you are so concerned with being a good person and you think you could be a bad person for things like this, chances are you are a *very* good person. Most the people you're debating with realize this too. It's just easy to get flustered and rattled and offensive with all that heat. 

Breathe, okay? If this happens again, breathe. Remind yourself it's just a website, and that you do not even know these people. Do something that is legal and makes you happy. Leave the computer. It might feel imperative to respond to them, but sometimes the best response is letting them warble out their hypocritical garbage without your presence.


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## Angelic Gardevoir (Oct 7, 2010)

Cephalonimbus said:


> I guess the easy answer is to not take it personally and stop being so hard on yourself, but I understand that's easier said than done for someone who suffers from anxiety and low confidence. Maybe getting involved in heated debates isn't such a good idea at such an emotional time in your life? That's up to you of course but IMO it's not worth it if it's causing you to feel terrible about yourself. I mean, posting your opinions in a debate thread is guaranteed to expose yourself to criticism, and if you have too much anxiety right now to process that criticism without beating yourself down and taking it as a rejection of you as a person rather than just a disagreement on an opinion, then it isn't constructive and it's probably better to avoid those threads until you feel more confident. Either way, just know you're alright


I suppose you're right, but for some reason it has kept happening. I guess there are times I just don't want to stay silent, even if I know it might hurt me in the end. (Furthermore, I was a little motivated in that death penalty thread by at least giving some support to the OP. In reality I may be a bit less certain about it.) Maybe I should stop.



raskoolz said:


> No matter how you look at it, at any given time you will find yourself being wrong about a number of many given things. It is not something we can really prevent, since it is inevitable. We are not perfect, and our flaws are a by-product of what makes us human.
> 
> The question is not really whether or not you will make a mistake, it's really "when" and "how". Being part of the human condition generally means making mistakes, and (hopefully) trying to grow from it and proceeding in the way you perceive to be best- so I wouldn't worry too much about trying to prevent mistakes.
> 
> ...


That's the thing: I can't forgive myself for mistakes. Not in debates, nor in beliefs, nor in school, nor in anything else that is important to me. I just fear that it is a sort of blight on my being, if that makes any sense. If I hold an opinion someone else finds terrible, but change my mind later, that tells me that I'm capable of holding terrible beliefs and thus capable of being bad. The very possibility that I could be bad is frightening to me. Furthermore, I cling so much to the idea that I have to be _inherently_ good, or otherwise I'm worthless.



Wellsy said:


> *So what do you feel like you expect if you were to make a mistake or there was miscommunication of ideas?
> *Because I tend to think our expectation is a lot more stressful than enduring somethings, like I work myself up a hell of a lot more than how I feel enduring the worst case scenario at times XD


I expect that other people may secretly hold a low opinion of me, even if they don't voice it. Also, I fear that if they do voice it, they'll tear me apart.

And well, just for context, my grandparents raised me, and I guess I feared displeasing them. I always felt I had to be good, and I was compared to my mother if I made them angry. Thankfully I didn't do much to ever make them angry, but from what I can tell now they had treated my mother far worse for her mistakes. I think I just had a predisposition for anxiety and their expectations for good behavior messed me up even if from the outside it seemed like relatively little. 

The thing is, I can't let go of the concept of goodness, because moral ambiguity is far more frightening for me.


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## General Lee Awesome (Sep 28, 2014)

if u are afraid of being a bad person, then you are probably a good person because I doubt a bad person will be afraid of being bad or they wouldn't have become a bad person in the first place. so no need to worry about it too much xD. also making a few people upset doesnt make you bad. no matter how good you are, there will be people who dislike you because of differences we share xD.


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## johnnyyukon (Nov 8, 2013)

Cephalonimbus said:


> The fact that you're worried about this in the first place is a clear indicator of a desire to be a good person.


Yup.



Bad people don't second guess themselves. They don't reflect, they don't have a conscience.


Also, though "enemies" may be too strong a word for a forum, I LOVE this quote,


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## Kyusaku (Mar 18, 2014)

I think being a bad person isn't the real object of your fear here. It's being wrong about yourself, misinterpreting the situation, and doing something malevolent while having a benevolent intention. The fear that the meaning your gave to certain ideas or persons might have been deceptions. The fear of feeling lost and uncertain about everything, and mostly yourself.

There's really nothing else to do but keep trusting in what holds you together, what makes you feel well. It might be as misguided, but at least it improves your life, maybe even make you happy everyday.


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## NurseCat (Jan 20, 2015)

If you fear being a bad person and frequently consider your morals and how they affect others, you aren't a bad person.


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## Death Persuades (Feb 17, 2012)

Angelic Gardevoir said:


> In case people aren't aware, I have an anxiety disorder that manifests in crying spells among other worse symptoms at times. I've been told that it basically falls under Generalized Anxiety Disorder, but I think that may be because that's the closest thing they have in the DSM right now. Anyway, one of things I have anxiety over is whether or not I'm hurting someone or if someone thinks I'm a terrible person for one reason or another.
> 
> So...I've been getting into some debates on PerC, and I'm not sure why I'm even continuing. I initially joined this forum years ago to build up my own confidence, and I wasn't doing so bad with it. Then I took a break and came back. Since the death of my grandparents, I think my anxiety may have worsened in some ways. Even so, I tried getting into discussions again.
> 
> ...


*huggles*

Sometimes we may have opinions which others may see as bad or immoral, but that doesn't mean they are. Morality, in my opinion, has _some _aspects which are objective (I can explain more in PM if you'd like) but above a certain line everything becomes hazy and mostly opinion based. 

Don't worry. You're not a bad person. They just have different opinions and hold them as strongly as you hold yours.


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## Kytaari (Mar 14, 2011)

You're a good person because your views aren't controversial. I'm a bad person because my views are controversial. They're very controversial, and I'm not just wicked in the eyes of the world, I'm down right evil.

You will always be accepted by people In PerC so long as you cave into their high school far left peer pressure.

Facts about my beliefs

-I believe in capital punishment
-I believe people are not created equally
-I believe men in different are more different than alike. Either women are superior are men are superior. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
-I believe in the existence of gods and the continuum of life after death.
-I believe that might makes right and the rule of the jungle rightly should prevail over the rule of the law.
-I despise secular humanism and atheist +
-I know that capitalism is slavery. Doesn't bother me. We can't all be kings.

Just the tip of the ice burg too. While I have enough conscience to sympathize with your plight a little, it's not enough to go overboard in freeing you. You'll be accepted as a sister here in PerC. So long as you do as they say.

The only other option is being a happy and satisfied social pariah like me.


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## Angelic Gardevoir (Oct 7, 2010)

Kytaari said:


> You're a good person because your views aren't controversial. I'm a bad person because my views are controversial. They're very controversial, and I'm not just wicked in the eyes of the world, I'm down right evil.
> 
> You will always be accepted by people In PerC so long as you cave into their high school far left peer pressure.
> 
> ...


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## NurseCat (Jan 20, 2015)

Angelic Gardevoir said:


>


Whoa, hey, I like this fluffy pinwheel pup meme


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## bigstupidgrin (Sep 26, 2014)

Oh here: Flame Warriors Home look for your type . The satire is pretty funny. 

Always keep the following in mind:

1. Nothing important has ever been solved by online debate forums and keyboard warriors. (or you youngsters with the tapatalk). 
2. People on either side of incredibly polarizing topics have good intentions at heart. 
3. This forum is for your entertainment: feel free to avoid/ignore/block anything or anyone from here.
4. The same 10-15 arguments are going to get recycled every month or two. You won't miss anything by taking time away from it. 
5. No one ever wins or loses (unless they get banned, although they can just move to a different forum I suppose).
6. Finally, people in these debates have varying levels of interest in it; from "bored, I'll go play Devil's advocate, or troll, or casually say something" to "this is personal".

#5 really questions why we enter these grindstones of debates. 

I would just stay completely away, and enjoy the less vitriolic sub-forums here, but then again I can never quite stay away either...


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## Dao (Sep 13, 2013)

I am sorry you are having a rough time on here. I think many people, including me, can overlook how we express a point can impact someone else. I hope your time at PerC can be converted into a positive learning experience and a chance to connect with others.

Here are some things that have helped me:
-*Treat your shame with humility.* Ask questions to ensure there are no misunderstandings, accept that you may be wrong and be open to anything you can use to improve your point. There is no shame in adopting a new position, ever. There is a simple honor in humility.
-*Approach every argument as a learning experience.* There is always a takeaway, and no matter what position someone has taken, it is a perspective than can add to your repertoire. They are only helping your strengthen your own position by questioning it, or conversely helping you into a better perspective.
-*People may not be actively demonstrating their agreement.* For whatever reason, many users will agree with you but not like your posts or engage in the discussion. They may be hesitate to like your posts due to social pressure. There are always people who are on your side even though they may be invisible.
-*People who never reconsider are doing themselves a disservice.* They are narrow-minded.
-*Disagreement does not mean you are bad.* People may disagree with you, but that's all. It does not reflect how bad or good you are. Question your assumptions behind what good and bad mean, and question the assumptions behind your assumptions. Imagine you are in a strong glass box and the other person is talking to you and disagreeing with you; they cannot get to you.
-*Be your own best friend.* Love yourself. Take yourself out to do something you always wanted to do, treat yourself to dinner, love yourself for who you are. You don't need these other people on the Internet to like you. You need YOU.
-*Ground yourself in the present moment.* Noticing your feet touching the ground or your back touching your chair. Move your eyes around the room. Try to notice every external detail possible, stopping at each object for at least a couple seconds. Practice breathing meditation. Take time out to read the _Tao Te Ching._ This helps so much.


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## Athesis (Sep 2, 2012)

Angelic Gardevoir said:


> In case people aren't aware, I have an anxiety disorder that manifests in crying spells among other worse symptoms at times. I've been told that it basically falls under Generalized Anxiety Disorder, but I think that may be because that's the closest thing they have in the DSM right now. Anyway, one of things I have anxiety over is whether or not I'm hurting someone or if someone thinks I'm a terrible person for one reason or another.
> 
> So...I've been getting into some debates on PerC, and I'm not sure why I'm even continuing. I initially joined this forum years ago to build up my own confidence, and I wasn't doing so bad with it. Then I took a break and came back. Since the death of my grandparents, I think my anxiety may have worsened in some ways. Even so, I tried getting into discussions again.
> 
> ...


Hello again... I'm sorry to hear that you're feeling this way. You're not a bad person and I don't think you should feel bad for having an opinion! You just want what's best for humanity, and if you happen to be wrong about something, it still doesn't make you a bad person or cruel. People are wrong about things all the time, and that doesn't make any of them bad people. Don't worry about whether you're right or wrong! *hugs*


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## Angelic Gardevoir (Oct 7, 2010)

Kyusaku said:


> I think being a bad person isn't the real object of your fear here. It's being wrong about yourself, misinterpreting the situation, and doing something malevolent while having a benevolent intention. The fear that the meaning your gave to certain ideas or persons might have been deceptions. The fear of feeling lost and uncertain about everything, and mostly yourself.


I think it may be more that, even if I might have a benevolent intention, being shown that I am wrong may reveal some awful truth about myself that shows that I lack compassion or that I deep down I have a desire to hurt others...which I consider bad.



bigstupidgrin said:


> Oh here: Flame Warriors Home look for your type . The satire is pretty funny.
> 
> Always keep the following in mind:
> 
> ...


LOL, I've seen that before. I'm a Diplomat, Fragile Femme, and civil Liberal Idealogue.


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## Athesis (Sep 2, 2012)

bigstupidgrin said:


> Oh here: Flame Warriors Home look for your type . The satire is pretty funny.
> 
> Always keep the following in mind:
> 
> ...


Spoken by thee noodley goodness! Ra'men!
xD 
Couldn't resist


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## bigstupidgrin (Sep 26, 2014)

Angelic Gardevoir said:


> LOL, I've seen that before. I'm a Diplomat, Fragile Femme, and civil Liberal Idealogue.


Lemmie see, I'm probably a Yuk Yuk, Idealogue (although which side depends on topic these days), probably a mild Jekyl/Hyde...


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