# Why do peeps be hatin' on ESFP?



## Kr3m1in

@sparkles well, once in a while, every esfp i've known would just go out in the morning and basically ride random buses places and meet hobos and come back at night or in the morning totally recharged and full of impressions..my good friends that were that type did this, my ex did it. we could be just hanging out and suddenly an esfp would have to go do they don't know what.literally do whatever comes their way.
and when they had to go do that, it didn't matter who needed them, even if a friend was breaking the fuck down they would be like..well i don't know what else to say, i'm gonna go.and go.to me, that's just fucking bizarre.
my friend T was taking a break up a little too far, but she was reeal hurt...and me and two espfs were there...you know,cheerleading. and one of the esfps got the impulse and was like..well i gotta be somewhere..and just left.
T was shell shocked, me too frankly...and so later i talked to the esfp about it, and she was like, well, T acted like I 'had to' be there and you can't restrict my freedom, so I had to go.and then i ask ,you know, where the hell _did_ you go that was so important. and the response:for a walk.
yeah...selfish is the word isn't it...but at the same time they could be the most generous and caring people...and then pull something like the above.bizarre.
why do you guys do the crazy thing you do? i don't mean that you, sparkles, do the above, but i'm sure you've done things that raised eyebrows..is it for attention?shock value? what?


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## sparkles

lirulin said:


> To be honest, I'm not used to extraverts, period, I am so used to introverts. The ones I do know...they don't _all _want huge groups but they all seem to want more...reactions from me than is natural for me, so one-on-one can be tiring too. It's like I have to constantly reassure them that I'm not ignoring them, constantly externalise things. And yet they can easily ignore what I am actually saying, so it's all...weird...with a number of my I friends socialising can be so much less work - if we see a movie, we don't _talk _through it, and we can even sit and read in the same room for hours, just sharing the occasional cool phrase. And I don't feel like being inside my own head might offend anyone...the EXFPs seem the best at glossing over some of that, but sometimes they can bulldoze in their enthusiasm without meaning to and they can think they are helping me with being 'shy' when it is nothing of the kind. We tend to talk past each other accidentally...I have a few E friends, of course, but generally speaking, they are more work for me.


I understand. I love the idea of being in the same room with someone, each doing your own thing. Some folks have a need for you to both do the same thing. Or even worse for me, they need me to put all my attention on it even if it's boring me. I'm not speaking about socializing with someone. I don't tend to spend personal time with people who bore me, heh. But in terms of activities, it's nice when it's enough that I'm there with them, or there and splitting my attention between the two things, instead of the expectation to process the experience exactly as that person does.



lirulin said:


> I do agree with the latter, and I have found it hard with some Fs and Ps who don't tell me, since in some ways I am not the most socially tuned-in person. *I think everyone has different expectations of what is "obvious" and can clash sometimes when they are very different. *I'm not nearly so quiet as I used to be, accordingly.


 Bolded part, too true, too true. Conversations to discuss expectations can be a drag but they can save a lot of trouble too.

That's like, I had no idea my roomie expected me to maintain a spotless bathroom. I thought it was enough that it was clean enough to not be gross in there. He wants it spotless in case guests come over (even though no one ever comes lol).


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## sparkles

Kr3m1in said:


> @sparkles well, once in a while, every esfp i've known would just go out in the morning and basically ride random buses places and meet hobos and come back at night or in the morning totally recharged and full of impressions..my good friends that were that type did this, my ex did it. we could be just hanging out and suddenly an esfp would have to go do they don't know what.literally do whatever comes their way.
> and when they had to go do that, it didn't matter who needed them, even if a friend was breaking the fuck down they would be like..well i don't know what else to say, i'm gonna go.and go.to me, that's just fucking bizarre.
> my friend T was taking a break up a little too far, but she was reeal hurt...and me and two espfs were there...you know,cheerleading. and one of the esfps got the impulse and was like..well i gotta be somewhere..and just left.


Wow. Crazy. I do have moods to be spontaneous, but never when I know someone in my life could use some support. Even if I feel pinned down by it, and have a passing wave of resentment, I remember the value of that relationship or the chance to give something of value to them, and as long as I can sit still until that wave of resentment passes I'm good.

The whole autonomy thing, though, yeah that's huge. One reason I'm leaving my job is due to the extreme level of obligationness they project up there. I KNOW it is a JOB so there is a certain level of "do it whether you want to or not, because you have to." But the freedom thing, yeah.

Today, in fact, I was planning on taking the work truck to a satellite office instead of driving this huge van that can be more dangerous on the road. Someone at my work is like, oh no you have to take the van because so-and-so. It irked me, but I knew I had to go along with it. Honestly, I took my personal vehicle and ran a personal errand on company time before I took the van off the grounds. 

Similar thing to what your friend did. If I respected those relationships, or valued my time at that company, or felt any loyalty whatsoever, I would have handled it differently.


> T was shell shocked, me too frankly...and so later i talked to the esfp about it, and she was like, well, T acted like I 'had to' be there and you can't restrict my freedom, so I had to go.and then i ask ,you know, where the hell _did_ you go that was so important. and the response:for a walk.
> yeah...selfish is the word isn't it...but at the same time they could be the most generous and caring people...and then pull something like the above.bizarre.
> why do you guys do the crazy thing you do? i don't mean that you, sparkles, do the above, but i'm sure you've done things that raised eyebrows..is it for attention?shock value? what?


In my case, I don't do that stuff for attention or shock value. I do it because I have this visceral need to assert my autonomy sometimes. Only sometimes, and sometimes like I said I can just stay put while that wave of 

You're not the boss of me

passes, and then I'm good at behaving in a socially appropriate way for the circumstances. It has nothing to do with making a show, or getting attention, or anything like that. It is more like, my gut instinct when someone TRIES to pin me down or cage me, is to rebel against it as strongly as possible. If I get caged or pinned down, it must be through my own choice, and not through having the choice imposed upon me. 

That rebelliousness has gotten me into trouble too. In grad school, I had to meet with my teachers. Come to find out, I was coming across as "challenging and hostile" in the classroom. They wanted us to sit down, shut up, be indoctrinated, and respect our elders, and I was fighting that. Because they were demanding respect [ETA and submission] instead of letting it be a choice on my part.

This is a xxxP thing. I imagine it might be more intense with a ExxP. I've heard ENFP describe a similar pattern to this. 

So that is a long answer! But it isn't about attention at all. It's about maintaining a sense of choice in things instead of having it taken away or having something decided for me. 

All of that said, and even if I had a friend who was taking a long time to sort through a sticky breakup, and even if they were being needy about it, and even if I experienced that visceral instinct to leave just because they wanted to make me stay... it's a friggin friend man. You don't walk out on them just because they are pushing you to stick around.


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## sparkles

@Kr3m1in (and others) The funny thing is, the reverse works for this too. I don't mean playing hard to get or something like that.

I just mean, show me you respect my freedom, show me you don't want to own me or objectify me, show me I have a choice to stay around you or do something else, and I'm more likely to stay around you.

So in the case of your friend, even though that was shitty behavior, if that breakup friend had said, "I would really appreciate your company tonight, all of you, since I'm struggling with this. Jane, is there any way you'll hang out a while longer?" that would get a more desirable response for the breakup friend than, "Jane I need you right now, please stay, I must have all my friends near me tonight. Don't leave me."

Leaving a sense of choice makes it easier for this type to do what is actually being requested. Take the choice away, and we have to fight ourselves to go along with the plans. Some ExFP may not bother fighting that.

Try to make me do something, and even if I know it is the right option for the situation, I will have a very huge urge to rebel, and it takes a whole helluva lot of self-control not to act on that sometimes. 

Self-control isn't this type's strong suit, ditto for ENFP, so that is probably why you can see some rebellious reactionary behavior related to power struggles - even those that were so small it didn't occur to you that they were power struggles.

I have not had this rebellious thing with friends though, not that I can recall. More with established systems like school or organizations or parents. When my friends are struggling with something, I usually appreciate that they thought of me to support them in it. Makes me feel valued and appreciated, and that sticks with me more than a friend being needy and pushy in wanting support.


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## Kr3m1in

@sparkles, i think we might have gotten at the heart of the problem..when someone is your friend, you expect them to be there for you. whatever the fuck you say and do, that's what it means to be a friend.i don't think when you re down and depressed and need a certain person that's supposedly your friend around, you should have to perfectly word it to make it clear they have a choice of choosing the ice cream shop over being there for you. I think that is bullshit.you care-you're there.or you don't give a fuck...do you see how that's selfish?
i have trouble even admitting i need someone around when i m down.i am very rarely ever down, to be fair..but i think if someone's going to be a friend/so they should figure..hey, you had a friend die, maybe i won't go to the sex store instead of being with you.
and that's what kills me about esfps, precisely. there is no knowing they ll be there for you when you need them.so how are you supposed to trust people like that?


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## sparkles

@Kr3m1in I agree with you. Please notice I said in spite of all my babbling, I can't see myself doing that to a friend, and can't recall a time when I did. Even if I have to fight that rebellious reaction, I want to be there for a friend.

I am not primarily iNtuitive anymore, though. Unfortunately, there's a chance loved ones have been bothered by my behavior when I haven't done what they wanted me to do. Because they work by inference, they expect me to as well. 

Sometimes I infer. Sometimes I miss the dots I'm supposed to connect. So they got irked, quite possibly, and I never found out. I find that annoying. How can I grow into a better friend/loved one, or be there for them in the best possible way, if the only feedback I get is so subtle, or so far apart, that I may or may not recognize it? 

Ditching a friend who is grieving is just awful, though. I can't imagine doing that. 

The problem, though, is that I might think my friend is handling it better than they are. Since I can only go by the information available to me. 

So I might be checking with them on that situation for a few weeks, and if they consistently tell me it's all gravy or they're making it, if they do the tough guy routine - then unless I've already dealt with a wires-crossed situation with that person, which helped me discover they pretend they are fine when they're not - I'll start to taper off the checking in and attempts to nurture/support. 

If the need is there, but they aren't showing it clearly, then yes... I can see how that could happen. It would be shitty for that to happen, but it is not always easy to know someone is still hurting and would appreciate some extra friend support, if weeks go by of offering that, and that friend continues to talk and act like they won't have much use for more than the regular level of friendship I offer to them.

It's quite painful to me to find out a loved one is upset with me. At some point in there, I will also feel some anger that they let it get to that point instead of telling me it was on their mind. iNtuitives read between the lines by default, but Sensors don't always know that's expected of us. I can figure it out sometimes, and sometimes I can't. Even when I can figure out that I'm supposed to infer things, I can't always iNtuit the exact expectations or correct-to-the-N conclusions.

I do not think it makes sense that an ESFP will be more inclined to support a friend if the friend expresses themselves a certain way. I think not supporting a friend going through a crisis, if you're aware they are going through a crisis, is really shitty. I think it is also unfair when I am expected to read someone's mind and then they get mad at me when I don't read it right. 

Like my friend going through the separation... she is acting fine... I ask her how she's dealing with it... always the same neutral sort of answers. I don't know how forthright she's being. 

*It is hard for me to be the best friend possible if I don't know what she needs.* I'm being there for her as much as I can, and probably she just needs to know I'm there, so even if she says I'm fine, it probably helps that I keep checking in with her. 

But it would be so much easier for both of us - if she's having trouble with it - that she'd just be at least a little more open about that. I don't want to suffocate her either. She acts quite independent and together. There's a chance this is killing her on the inside. *I can still only choose from so many actions without clear indication of what she needs from me as her friend.*

I think this is a pretty drastic N/S issue that can lead to a lot of damage on both sides. I'm not suggesting if you feel down, that you necessarily have to put yourself into an uber-vulnerable state. *If you want a specific result, you do increase your chances of getting it by making that clearer*, but this isn't required.

You are right, friends are there for each other. That is my motto for my friendships. 

I'm just saying, I think it is kind of crappy, when people end up resenting my actions, when they didn't assert their preferences in the first place.* I like to strive to meet or exceed expectations for the people I care about, but there is only so much I can do if they have not made those expectations clear to me.* Making things clear in iNtuitive speak may not be the same thing.

If I know about some craziness in a friend's life, then I will be there for them asap whether they act like they need me there or not. WIll I continue the same level of increased attention, for weeks, without some Sensor-friendly indication it's needed/appreciated? Unfortunately, that isn't how I work. I need the feedback. 

I can totally see how, if you are not the sort of person who would want to say, "Hey Jane, I could use some company, are you free tonight?" then you would not find this type trustworthy. Your NJ perspective on friendship as being mutually understood sets of expectations may not necessarily mesh with the SP preference for things being out in the open and more direct, so I see where you're coming from. 

I just know, like I said, it's even harder to know the appropriate/desired reaction when it comes to a friend who won't convey that they are hurting. I mean, even if you are the tough front type... if there is anyone in the world that you could feel safe to be softer with, I would imagine that would be a friend.

Like my friend afk, I can't tell how much to support her, how often to call/text, because she's putting up a front like things are fine. My preference is for things to be clearer than that, but I'm not abandoning her. It's more comfortable and easier for me to be there for people when they make things more obvious, but I understand if that preference is difficult for other types to deal with. So I go by what seems like it might be helpful and appropriate. 

*All the while scared it isn't what would really work for her - because she isn't telling me.*

My friends trust me, but they also understand sometimes I need things spelled out, and that I will go out of my way to be there in whatever way they prefer, p*rovided I understand what that is*. 

I think it is unfair for me to get upset with people I care for when they do something that irks me, if I haven't told them, and I appreciate the same in return. *Sure, it can be sooooo scary to put yourself out there like that (believe it or not it is for us Fs too), but it strengthens my relationships every time.
*

I think *expectations lead to misunderstandings when they aren't spelled out*. 

I get how all of this, to your type, would make my type untrustworthy. Because it is pretty similar to my trouble with trusting iNtuitives when I ask them emotional-support questions. NTs and NFs to a lesser extent.

I have trouble trusting the answers I get from iNtuitives regarding direct questions related to emotional support, because I feel like I'm supposed to piece things together. And then if I don't do it the right way, now they are pissed at me and I have to piece things together to figure that part out too. And unless their frustration is made obvious, I may not even notice [which they will be inclined to read all sorts of things into], and then they are doubly upset and the friendship might be trashed.

That really sucks, to have that happen. I'm sure it sucks for the NT or NF too. I wouldn't be surprised if the NT or NF assumes I don't care about them as a person if I can't solve that puzzle. Nothing could be farther from the truth, but I can see how they'd draw that conclusion. 

I think it is unfair of us Sensors to demand more direct communication, and it's also unfair of iNtuitives to expect the subtext stuff.

So yeah, I understand.


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## sparkles

Wow massive wall of text.

Yeah, in case it isn't obvious to the boards, I've had some pretty crappy experiences with misunderstanding due to expectations, and things not getting said that I needed said. Apparently I'm still feeling some hurt over those experiences.

Sucks. So much pain on both sides that could have been avoided with some directness, or some... increased default iNtuitiveness on my part. I guess. I don't even know if that would work really. I can't guarantee I'll connect the dots the right way.


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## Kr3m1in

@sparkles, wow, you're quite the novelist.I am actually impressed that you care to ask there questions though and actually take input.
i know many of your type that wouldn't do anything like that.

I don't play the subtext card much, unless someone is reeeeeeeeally in tune with me and then it's just so much better to go with vibes that it actually makes for a deeper understanding and connection.
I communicate very boldly and clearly and honestly. I don't say, true, be with me when i am down as fuck but you could also go juggle on a unicycle instead.I say be with me.I say please.
Maybe that's the issue

you seem a lot more grounded and open to criticism than most esfps i know.that's pretty admirable..i think if you're conscious of your weapons, you use them more cautiously and skillfully.


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## Alexz

*expresses some love for extroverted S'* 

:3


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## sparkles

Kr3m1in said:


> @sparkles, wow, you're quite the novelist.I am actually impressed that you care to ask there questions though and actually take input.
> i know many of your type that wouldn't do anything like that.
> 
> I don't play the subtext card much, unless someone is reeeeeeeeally in tune with me and then it's just so much better to go with vibes that it actually makes for a deeper understanding and connection.
> I communicate very boldly and clearly and honestly. I don't say, true, be with me when i am down as fuck but you could also go juggle on a unicycle instead.I say be with me.I say please.
> Maybe that's the issue
> 
> you seem a lot more grounded and open to criticism than most esfps i know.that's pretty admirable..i think if you're conscious of your weapons, you use them more cautiously and skillfully.


 Haha yeah didn't mean to write so much 
Thank you for the positive words.

I'd love to hear from a loved one be with me, please. 

If it was not clear to me that this was partly influenced by an internal emotional wonkiness, then I could take it as a regular be with me, and not realize the down stuff was motivating it. For better or worse, if it's someone I'm around a lot anyway, I'm more responsive to the comment motivated by the wonk than the regular one, sometimes.

So... still sort of based on subtext, depending on the other factors.

Regardless, you seem like an awesome chick, and I hate that you got burned.


Alexz said:


> *expresses some love for extroverted S'*
> 
> :3


W00t received with appreciation, right back at ya Alexz!


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## Alexz

Well, I am not an E, but I do like S's. Especially if they're paired with F and E.


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## sparkles

@Alexz Well, yeah, "right back at ya" was for the love, not the Extrovert love  I can read you know! :tongue:


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## Alexz

Can you read me?


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## Kr3m1in

@sparkles , no problem, you've earned them. we entjs aren't ones for compliments, truthfully.

well then maybe you've already changed the trouble points about you, if all that sounds appealing to you. the esfps i knew, that wouldn't have been good enough for. i could put the word 'baby' in that sentence and they'd probably still hallucinate a cage.

i have a feeling it's harder for your type to be healthy than certain other types.you're quite misunderstood most of the time.


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## sparkles

@Alexz you haven't given me much data to work with 

I used an image of that same butterfly as the cover art for an ebook!


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## sparkles

@Kr3m1in Double thanks, then, and I'm honored that I was deemed worthy of the kudos 

I still have that rebelliousness sometimes. Haha just today at work remember? That was a really childish and passive aggressive thing to do on my part. I'm super-stoked that my new job involves a lot of autonomy. I'll thrive so much up there.

And sometimes... if I'm with a partner... I'm too active for them. I don't mean dragging an Ixxx to parties, I just mean restless and prefer to do more than one thing at a time. I've had partners be like... dude, come HERE already... quit scrambling all over the apartment and just sit with me. I have trouble doing that sometimes. Sucks when someone takes it personally.

Yes, I would say this type can have trouble being healthy. Attention-seeking, drugging, narcissism potential, and potential to sabotage beautiful things due to that anti-cage reaction. I'm still looking to tweak a few things, especially to make myself lean a little more toward J.

I know the type is all about fun. I am not as jokey as people say this type usually is, but being nurturing and supportive is fun for me. Not so fun with needy monster psychic vampires (people who rope you into a conversation, dump stuff at you... not everyone who does that is what I'm describing, there's a certain flavor to it), but I can say... especially someone like yourself, who's together most of the time, or not quick to seek support - I'm inclined to be even more generous with support if someone like that shows me they want it. 

Because I get that it is a really special thing, to be allowed to see that.


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## Alexz

sparkles said:


> @Alexz you haven't given me much data to work with
> 
> I used an image of that same butterfly as the cover art for an ebook!


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## Kr3m1in

@sparkles, haha, you're making me feel bad now here i am bashing your type and you say all of these nice things..but then again, you did kind of ask to bash your type..

I am a very rebellious person too, but I have my shit together at all times in order to afford that. At work I have a brass knuckle coffee mug and a skeleton statue from Vegas in my cubicle instead of family pics and snow globes. Also, today was black and white day and I wore neon yellow, cause I hate..conformity. But I make sure to do what i do with such precision, that nobody can bash my rebelliousness, or say it gets in the way..i generally don't rebel against loved ones though, I feel honored if they want to keep me..if I didn;t want to keep them, i wouldn't be with them..
I know esfps can get into relationships that they inherently see as temporary.not me.never me, that's lies and false hope imo.
when i dates an esfp attention seeking was a big issue.she'd be jealous of me because she perceived i got more attention from women. even if i did, i was with her and so i didn't see why it mattered but she'd get all uppity about it, and I'd try to joke it off and fail to


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## sparkles

Alexz said:


>


 Ooh is this introverted flirting? 










Kr3m1in said:


> @sparkles, haha, you're making me feel bad now here i am bashing your type and you say all of these nice things..but then again, you did kind of ask to bash your type..
> 
> I am a very rebellious person too, but I have my shit together at all times in order to afford that. At work I have a brass knuckle coffee mug and a skeleton statue from Vegas in my cubicle instead of family pics and snow globes. Also, today was black and white day and I wore neon yellow, cause I hate..conformity. But I make sure to do what i do with such precision, that nobody can bash my rebelliousness, or say it gets in the way..i generally don't rebel against loved ones though, I feel honored if they want to keep me..if I didn;t want to keep them, i wouldn't be with them..
> I know esfps can get into relationships that they inherently see as temporary.not me.never me, that's lies and false hope imo.
> when i dates an esfp attention seeking was a big issue.she'd be jealous of me because she perceived i got more attention from women. even if i did, i was with her and so i didn't see why it mattered but she'd get all uppity about it, and I'd try to joke it off and fail to


Hahaha @Kr3m1in You're right, I asked 

I'm sure your approach to nonconformity is less professionally volatile! As for the temporary relationships, I wouldn't say that is where my head is at. I approach it related to today, and might look at it in relation to the future, but approaching it in terms of today doesn't mean approaching it as temporary - to me. 

It would still suck to put years into building a bond and then it changes and folks split. I do think ESFP might handle that better than some other types, though. I grieve, yes, but within a couple of days I am redirecting my attention (with bursts of grieving). 

So, don't feel bad, I asked for the negative comments. Curiosity ftw!


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## Kr3m1in

@sparkles , well I can't afford anything professionally volatile, that's just how my story goes. When me and the esfp ex broke up, not only did she start dating someone that was supposed to be my friend and someone totally not compatible with her and not a good person in general, but she'd call me and tell me how much of a step down that relationship was from what we had and that it had an expiration date on it..and I was like, that's a really fucked up way to express appreciation for what we had, but thanks.

now she's decided again that I am the love of her life, cause no one's ever had her back like I did. But I am beyond over it..thinking about resuming that mess makes me just..severely annoyed. And she is trying to drag feelings out of moi, which aren't there anymore. I'm not one to step into the same pond twice and looking back hurts my neck.

So...that's why I have strong opinions on the topic, not because I want to bash your type, but because many of your type have really screwed with my trust in a big way. And I don't just hand my trust out like it's Christmas..


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## sparkles

lirulin said:


> Hmm...I always associated subtect with Fs - mainly Fe, rather than intuition, because to me that's the invisible stuff. But I guess with Ni there is more...condensed meaning in things that might make it less accessible to other people than Ne.


 Interesting! Well, that goes against what I've seen on the topic, but it is fascinating to think about. To me anything that I read between the lines to understand or discover is subtext. Finding meaning beyond the words on the screen, or grokking meaning from a sunset, that sort of thing. I think Ni and Ne do this, but it may not seem like subtext, because it may seem obvious to Ne or Ni or may be so much of the natural way of processing information that it doesn't feel like reading between the lines.

Yeah there can be some subtext in socializing. I do think seeing the psossibilities in things over seeing the things themselves is squarely N territory. Everyone is unique, but so far I have experienced a little more strictness about sticking to possibility-land in Ni than I have in Ne.


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## lirulin

I would say technically Ni is probability and Ne possibility...but yeah, I do see your point. I guess for me it's not so much reading into things as an intolerance for stating the totally obvious - I'm not conscious of it as reading, it's just....there. So it doesn't need to be said. So yeah, it really doesn't feel like reading between the lines at all. Expecting me to guess at people's feelings, the emotional motives behind their actions, what social expectation I am unaware of that I am violating, invisible expectation after invisible social expectation..._that_ does. I wonder if on some level that makes NFs the most incomprehensible with the double whammy.


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## sparkles

I don't know enough about the function breakdown to get why Ni is probability and Ne is possibility. 

That distinction might be where what I"m calling "strictness" comes from. Ni is more sure of the assumptions and assigned meaning than Ne, if Ni calls it probability. Unless I'm not understanding it.

Intolerance for stating the totally obvious. Okay, I know someone, he and his friends interact by having one long joke, one long game of pretend, none of it based on the concrete world. Drives me nuts. Is this similar to what you mean? Like they never just ask each other how their concrete world stuff is going. It sounds similar in flavor to what you're talking about. 

Like I said, it's easier to have more S-friendly conversations with ENxx than INxx for me. There is probably a reason for that, related to the functions. I do not mean simple conversation is easier, as that could just be extroverts getting social practice. I mean the conversations are less heavy on N and more S friendly, as if ENxx has more tolerance for S communication or less intolerance for expanding beyond their main communication style.


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## lirulin

Ni is more sure, yeah, and its processes are more adapted for that than for, say, brainstorming, that Ne is better at.

I think Es might...bond through some of those things? I know very little about what my friends are doing in tangible reality and I'd rather not talk about it because jokes and games or conversations about ideas are more fun. I have very little clue about the more...everyday...aspects of their lives and it doesn't bug me. Es yeah, even Ns, do seem to talk about those more in my experience.


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## sparkles

lirulin said:


> Ni is more sure, yeah, and its processes are more adapted for that than for, say, brainstorming, that Ne is better at.
> 
> I think Es might...bond through some of those things? I know very little about what my friends are doing in tangible reality and I'd rather not talk about it because jokes and games or conversations about ideas are more fun. I have very little clue about the more...everyday...aspects of their lives and it doesn't bug me. Es yeah, even Ns, do seem to talk about those more in my experience.


I would think the concrete details stuff is a Sensor thing, not an E thing. I know an ISTJ who focuses on the concrete world stuff too. Actually, I know 2 and they are both more inclined to focus on the concrete practical world than on theory or ideas without practical application.

I think it is just that Sensors focus on the concrete, tangible, practical, and iNtuitives don't, so iNtuitives are content to communicate about things that are not based on the concrete experience. 

Sensors lose more energy to go into the lalaland of iNtuition, and iNtuitives lose energy to focus on the concrete stuff. 

I think maybe ENxx does this better than INxx because ENxx is still gathering energy from the socializing of it, where INxx isn't, so INxx needs to maintain an N friendly communication style to preserve enough energy.


----------



## lirulin

sparkles said:


> I think maybe ENxx does this better than INxx because ENxx is still gathering energy from the socializing of it, where INxx isn't, so INxx needs to maintain an N friendly communication style to preserve enough energy.


I think that's close to what I meant with the vague bonding? idea but you expressed it much better and more clearly and yeah, that makes sense.


----------



## sparkles

lirulin said:


> I think that's close to what I meant with the vague bonding? idea but you expressed it much better and more clearly and yeah, that makes sense.


Hope my comment about lalaland didn't offend you, lirulin. I'm guessing it didn't, but still.

I have less tolerance for that style these days, just as you have less tolerance for Sensor style. 

I'm sure with my lack of tolerance due to the loss of energy in communicating opposite my type preference, I can sound rather mean about it. I don't mean to, it's just I lose that energy quickly, and that shows up as irritation.

I bet the same happens on your end, and you feel irritation when you are expected to communicate in an S way.


----------



## lirulin

what? no. lalaland is awesome. I don't know why that would be offensive. I can understand losing energy if it's not your thing...too much S and I just space out entirely. And if someone has hijacked my alone time, talking about mundane (to me - no offense meant) things is definitely irritating. In work situations though, I envy the practicality of S - mostly STJs that I have worked with, I don't know how SP would play out. There is definitely competence in things that I don't have though. I like Sensors when something needs to be accomplished - for play, Ns are more comfortable company.


----------



## sparkles

Haha, nice, @lirulin. Lalaland could sound kind of judgey but glad you didn't take it that way  Fascinating that you respond differently to S. I can be spacey but my Fe (maybe) keeps me interested in the social side of things, so if I'm in a room of iNtuitives, I'll want to stay engaged even if the convo isn't my style. But I can also think of times where I just found other ways to amuse myself in a room of Ns.

SP is focused on practicality also, just a bit less industrious compared to SJ and not always consistent. Like at the job I'm leaving, I came up with a bunch of ways to streamline the workload. Previous person did the whole application with the client, I split it up and made packets for all the forms I didn't have to complete and put it on the client to fill those out before they ever met with me, in the interest of saving time. Also made up some rules about who I would/not speak to by phone, and made signs, and started working by a waiting list. I also found a way to show my superiors that we couldn't meet certain targets without hiring more people and wrote up some financial projections to prove it. 

The financial bit, the logic of it, needing to break things down based on how many people I can see each week and projecting that out with salary and average amount awarded, etc., was actually VERY taxing, but the general idea behind it is quite practical.

I think N is great for brainstorming, and for helping me factor in more of the forest than the trees. Socially, it usually doesn't work for me. Luckily that's usually Ni I'm around so they don't care if I break out my phone and start playing on it in the middle of the conversation.


----------



## RyRyMini

One problem I have with them is that they can be flighty and uncommitted. I've known a few who throw out plans like "Yeah, we'll go hiking sometime!" or "I really want to hang out with you more often!" and then these things never truly happen. I'm flighty in general, (only I don't make false plans) so this is probably some form of a projection. They also don't seem to know when to quit. This applies mainly to activities that society doesn't deem as constructive, and sometimes they have a tendency to push people too hard to try and persuade them into doing something the ESFP likes. Like I sometimes do, I think they go by the logic of "If I like it, then everyone else should too!"

It's true that they don't have much interest in the philosophic and that's why they get bashed around here. They may lose often on these forums, but they win in real life.


----------



## sparkles

RyRyMini said:


> One problem I have with them is that they can be flighty and uncommitted. I've known a few who throw out plans like "Yeah, we'll go hiking sometime!" or "I really want to hang out with you more often!" and then these things never truly happen. I'm flighty in general, (only I don't make false plans) so this is probably some form of a projection. They also don't seem to know when to quit. This applies mainly to activities that society doesn't deem as constructive, and sometimes they have a tendency to push people too hard to try and persuade them into doing something the ESFP likes. Like I sometimes do, I think they go by the logic of "If I like it, then everyone else should too!"
> 
> It's true that they don't have much interest in the philosophic and that's why they get bashed around here. They may lose often on these forums, but they win in real life.


 Hahaha yeah no interest in the philosophic or cerebral usually. Unless the specific topic engages me for other reasons, of I enjoy the social aspect of conversation with a specific person enough to do some cerebral-izing. It's funny how that gets ESFP painted as unintelligent. I have all sorts of reasons I could use to discount that assumption but why bother if someone wants me in that box.

Your post sounds like a fair assessment to me. Like you, I do not like to suggest something I'm not firmly committed to. If I may or may not attend a function, I will throw in a maybe. I do not use firm language unless I want to convey firm commitment. That said, it is important to pay attention to my language. If I said it with a maybe then it's really a maybe in spite of how enthusiastic I was otherwise. If I say, "oh that could be a lot of fun!" I'm not as perfectly behind it as I am if I say, "Oh wow, totally, I have room to do that in two weeks let's get it set up!"

I also find it mildly annoying when someone is all talk and doesn't follow through, so I do my best not to be that way. However, I may bring up an idea, and be totally behind it, and then life happens but if that person brings it up again or has done some legwork on it and invites me I'll be fully on about it. 

I try not to be pushy but I'm sure I've been that way sometimes without meaning to be. I definitely don't do that about substances, never have, and cannot stand when others do that about substances or partying or socializing. I ask, and if they say no (or communicate a no clearly enough that I realize it is a no), I may say please or point out reasons why a different answer would be good, but then I drop it. A lot of the time all I need is a clear no (verbal or not) and I accept it. 

I may follow up with something to the effect of, well that makes me kind of sad because I would have enjoyed doing this with you but I respect your choice and I'll see you soon. This is NOT meant as a guilt trip to persuade that person to change their mind. It is just me expressing my feelings about it. If I say I respect the choice then I respect the choice.


----------



## Apollo Celestio

All the ESFPs I know cheated on their SO's, one of them was my mother. I don't think ESFP's are cheaters though.. they just seem to be..mm.. easily swayed and in the moment.


----------



## Starflakes

sparkles said:


> Serious question. Silly title.
> 
> What are the traits or behaviors you've personally experienced from ESFP that lead you to find it an unpleasant type? I've seen several negative references to the type, but I'm curious to find out what those ESFPs were doing or being to be seen that way.
> 
> I'm starting to also wonder, whether there's plenty of "pleasant" ESFPs out there, who simply get typed as ENFP by the people around them. Like, if you're fun-loving, sociable, openly enthusiastic and annoying then you're ESFP to that person, but if you're fun-loving, sociable, openly enthusiastic and not annoying you're ENFP to that person.


=/

IDK but I love me some ESFPs


----------



## sparkles

Apollo Celestio said:


> All the ESFPs I know cheated on their SO's, one of them was my mother. I don't think ESFP's are cheaters though.. they just seem to be..mm.. easily swayed and in the moment.


 How nice of you to try and find the neutral explanation for that behavior. I'm not being sarcastic.

I've not cheated since I became a mature adult (I did as a teenager) with anyone where there was a firm official commitment. Yes I did stray in the past, first because I was still learning how to have adult relationships, and once because I didn't realize he was committing to me. We had not made anything official so I still don't know whether it "counts" or not. Depends I guess on someone's perspective on those things. I think it kind of counts and kind of doesn't. He betrayed me when it was way more established than that. Stuck with him a few more years anyway.

Since I chose to value healthy relationships to be committed to a partner, nothing further has happened. Yes I've been in situations where it could have if it were old me...

You are right ESFP lives in the moment. If ESFP has not made a very strong commitment inside that stuff can happen. Personally, I don't drop my drawers for anyone who gives me a lot of attention anyway. I value dedicating myself to a committed partnership, so I can say those days are behind me. 

If it came down to it, I would end an existing relationship before I pursued another one. Or talk about opening the relationship maybe. No cheating though, not anymore, does too much damage and isn't the sort of person I choose to be now. Trust is way too important to me to go there, regardless of whims.


----------



## Wartime Consigliere

2/3 of my ESFP friends are REAL close friends who I value *a lot*. Word is bond with them. <3
The other is pretty selfish, intelligent, talented but generally good intentioned though.
I tend to develop my practical skills more with ESFPs around.

I likes you people, and I'm an INTJ. It's hardly "opposites attract!" either imo.


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## sparkles

Binge Thinker said:


> 2/3 of my ESFP friends are REAL close friends who I value *a lot*. Word is bond with them. <3
> The other is pretty selfish, intelligent, talented but generally good intentioned though.
> I tend to develop my practical skills more with ESFPs around.
> 
> I likes you people, and I'm an INTJ. It's hardly "opposites attract!" either imo.


 Awesome to get love from INTJ! ^_^

You are right my word is my bond. That is why I am so careful to not communicate being sure of something when I might still waffle on it. I can see how ESFP would help with practical skills, especially social ones and skills related to emotional intelligence.

Much love right back to you!


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## themartyparade

I don't know all that many ESFPs but I like the ones I know.
They're pretty much just like me except they can be somewhat of a buzzkill when they've gotta make sure no one's getting hurt and that they're on good terms with everyone all the time.

Basically the whole "Whoaaa, I'm so scared of conflict" bothers me but that's about it.


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## sparkles

themartyparade said:


> I don't know all that many ESFPs but I like the ones I know.
> They're pretty much just like me except they can be somewhat of a buzzkill when they've gotta make sure no one's getting hurt and that they're on good terms with everyone all the time.
> 
> Basically the whole "Whoaaa, I'm so scared of conflict" bothers me but that's about it.


Interesting, and thank you. 

Interesting because I can be bold and brash while also valuing positive relationships. I mend fences sometimes. This is interpreted as fear of conflict, to some. Then again, for all I know, the ESFPs you know are not as assertive as I am. 

For me, I prefer there to be social harmony, but I do speak my mind. I say no. I may try to smooth things over later, I'm not malicious with my tongue when I can help it, but I go there if needed. If there is peace I like to keep it. If the outward peace is messing with my inner peace because the outward peace involves my needs not getting met, you bet your ass I'll say something.

How does this mediator stuff occur as a buzzkill for you, if you'll enlighten me on that? Do you prefer there to be some clashing or...?


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## themartyparade

sparkles said:


> How does this mediator stuff occur as a buzzkill for you, if you'll enlighten me on that? Do you prefer there to be some clashing or...?


Haha, I was thinking about a specific event when I mentioned that. Me and my friends (one of them ESFP) were out in the middle of the nowhere this winter and we decided to have some fun. One of our friends had gone to bed early and we decided it would be a "pleasant" surprise if we carried him up the stairs and threw him into the snow. Now this friend woke up when we were carrying him up the stairs and started freaking out. However, this particular friend probably wouldn't have minded getting thrown in the snow (at least not that much) but instead of ignoring him and carrying on with our plan, my ESFP friend started feeling sorry for him and told us to quit 'cause "it's not fair. It's cold in the snow". Buzzkill? I think so.


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## sparkles

themartyparade said:


> Haha, I was thinking about a specific event when I mentioned that. Me and my friends (one of them ESFP) were out in the middle of the nowhere this winter and we decided to have some fun. One of our friends had gone to bed early and we decided it would be a "pleasant" surprise if we carried him up the stairs and threw him into the snow. Now this friend woke up when we were carrying him up the stairs and started freaking out. However, this particular friend probably wouldn't have minded getting thrown in the snow (at least not that much) but instead of ignoring him and carrying on with our plan, my ESFP friend started feeling sorry for him and told us to quit 'cause "it's not fair. It's cold in the snow". Buzzkill? I think so.


Ok. Ha well I am not a fan of having fun at the expense of other people so honestly, your friend let it go farther (further? crap, I usually know but I'm not sure in this case) than I would've let it go. 

It is *always* possible to come up with fun that won't be at the expense of a person. I would have squashed that idea and thrown a small hissy if needed to achieve my goal. So I get why you would say that ha. 

@Kr3m1in I was telling the truth I am driving right now pm system harder to work than replying to threads on my phone didn't want you to draw falase conclusions if you saw this post ttyl


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## Kr3m1in

@sparkles lol, you don't have to explain yourself like that, it's not urgent or anything)
cute though..haha


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## sparkles

Kr3m1in said:


> @sparkles lol, you don't have to explain yourself like that, it's not urgent or anything)
> cute though..haha


 Yeah well, I am true to my word, so...


----------



## Fizz

I would like to meet some ESFPs...I think we would get along great.


----------



## StandingTiger

It's because they say things like "peeps be hatin'".

I kid. I kid.


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## StandingTiger

Fizz said:


> I would like to meet some ESFPs.


32% of women are SPs, and 14% of those are ESFPs. I'm sure that you actually know a great deal of them.


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## sparkles

@hmwith poutface 

Cud b wurs I cud b tlkn like dis yo :tongue: 

@Fizz hmwith is right you probably know a few already, but I agree. I think I'd get along well with someone like yourself.


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## Wendixy

I will only dislike them if they keep telling me to "socialize more."


----------



## sparkles

Dude! This type must have a habit of pushing boundaries. That is so lame :/

Why would I do that to people if I can't stand it done to me. I may be missing times where I don't realize I'm doing it but seriously. Not cool.


----------



## Wendixy

Everyone's different 
I just dislike people who tell me to socialize in general.


----------



## possiBri

Some of my favorite people are ESFPs... I love their "good natured-ness" and how sincere they can be. Sometimes I get frustrated trying to explain something, but I don't give up and usually I can get them to follow my train of thought (which can be quite confusing sometimes, I know). I think you guys are my favorite Fs (along with ENFPs), I'm never worried about being bored because I usually have fun when I'm around my ESFP friends. In fact, my new roommate is ESFP and I love the conversations we have because I always get a new perspective from him, and I LOVE that! I think the only real times we head-butt is when he wants to apply values/morals to something I see as being a situation to handle objectively, and when our interests don't quite match up (but I'm sure that's true of most types).



Wendy Wang said:


> Everyone's different
> I just dislike people who tell me to socialize in general.


OMG YES! This is something that drives me NUTS about my ESFP roommate... he's always saying how he is going to get me to go out (most likely to a bar) with him... =\ SOOO not my thing, and it sucks because I want to get out of my comfort zone but I see going to a bar as being totally useless, I'd much rather hang out at my (or a friend's) house than be in a loud, crowded place with a ton of strange people that I DON'T want to talk to (especially if they're drunk). Also... LOL your last name is WANG!


----------



## Arbite

I have nothing against ESFP's, just ones that are overly touchy feely. I don't like contact very much, a little is ok, but most of the ESFP's I know seem to love cooing and ahhhing over small things and love touching. Same thing annoys me with most ExFx types, those that learn to not be like that I have no trouble being around with and an XSFP is one of my best friends.


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## NeedMoreKnowledge

I don't mind ESFPs, they just aren't a type I would get on great with. They are too into socializing and immediate fun seeking for me to appreciate their uniqueness. If people truly dislike ESFPs than I see it as stereotypical hate. TBH, no type is a bad type, we all are capable of using the 4 functions, it's just our responsibility as people to learn how to work on our weaknesses and not rely too heavily on our strengths, or at least don't rely on your strengths when interacting with a type who's weaknesses are your strengths. I used to be very rigid when dealing with SPs, thinking they were too assertive and were trying to destroy my self esteem because I was so quiet and shy. But now after growing out of my shell a bit, I realize that these people truly just wanted me to experience the fun they were having and meant no harm to me.


----------



## letsride

I've never met an ESFP that I didn't like! I seem to mesh well with ESFPs, the ones I know are wonderful people who are a joy to be around (for me, anyway).


----------



## sparkles

Woot, love the mixed bag of the latest posts. Seems pretty true-to-life I think.



possiBri said:


> my ESFP roommate... he's always saying how he is going to get me to go out (most likely to a bar) with him... =\ SOOO not my thing


Well, in fairness, that might be something he's saying without a firm intention to follow through about it. In that sense, I think you're safe 

You can get some mad ESFP love by suggesting an alternative. Most ESFP I know are open to all sorts of fun-sounding things, so if he happens to get firmer about the bar, be ready with another option and he'll probably love it. Well, not going to watch a chess tournament, and lectures as entertainment are harder for ESFP who doesn't like to sit still, but something less cerebral he'll probably find it captivating.



NeedMoreKnowledge said:


> I used to be very rigid when dealing with SPs, thinking they were too assertive and were trying to destroy my self esteem because I was so quiet and shy. But now after growing out of my shell a bit, I realize that these people truly just wanted me to experience the fun they were having and meant no harm to me.


That's awesome how you came to see that. Really


----------



## possiBri

sparkles said:


> Woot, love the mixed bag of the latest posts. Seems pretty true-to-life I think.
> 
> Well, in fairness, that might be something he's saying without a firm intention to follow through about it. In that sense, I think you're safe
> 
> You can get some mad ESFP love by suggesting an alternative. Most ESFP I know are open to all sorts of fun-sounding things, so if he happens to get firmer about the bar, be ready with another option and he'll probably love it. Well, not going to watch a chess tournament, and lectures as entertainment are harder for ESFP who doesn't like to sit still, but something less cerebral he'll probably find it captivating.


lol thanks for the suggestion... he is a big fan of drinking and going to the bar, so yeah, that is his intention. I know he'd be down to do other things but there isn't really much to "do" as far as adult entertainment, and I'm horrible about socializing like that. It's all good though, I'm sure it'll all work out =]


----------



## fouxdafafa

I only know one ESFP. She is one of my best friends. She's great fun. I don't find her annoying because we have the same sense of humour but maybe other people would find it annoying. But TBH, I don't know anyone who doesn't like her. But I can't speak for them all.


----------



## sparkles

fouxdafafa said:


> I only know one ESFP. She is one of my best friends. She's great fun. I don't find her annoying because we have the same sense of humour but maybe other people would find it annoying. But TBH, I don't know anyone who doesn't like her. But I can't speak for them all.


 Haha I'm sure I made some enemies today.

Which is not my preference, but it had to be done, they were trying to bully and control me and I don't handle that well. They can suck it.

Thank you for your post, I'd say it is pretty standard for most ESFP to be liked by most people who know us.


----------



## Fat Bozo

Okay - the scenario several pages back - sorry I didn't want to quote the whole dang message. :tongue:

But anyway, if there's a friend that's all down and depressed, I try to get them to go with me to do something fun, and I'm not saying I can't stay in and be with somebody, but I don't want to sit around and listen to whining if that's all they're doing.

Case in point, I dated this girl, her boyfriend had got her pregnant and then left her, and she was devestated by that - completely understandable - but here I was, someone who was not only willing to go out and have fun with her, but willing to entertain the possibility of it being more serious and being somebody who could be a father to her child even though it wasn't mine, and all she ever did was the "poor me" routine. It was all about how her life was so horrible and she wasn't going to make it and on and on, and I tried to give sympathy, but I also tried to snap her out of her funk by giving her a way out and an opportunity to enjoy life again, but she wouldn't take it.

Eventually, I got tired of her being all depressed acting all the time, and broke it off. She probly whined to the next dude about me, but there comes a point at which being a friend or boyfriend/girlfriend to somebody isn't just sitting there while they wallow in depression.

So basically that's my attitude when it comes to stuff like that. I'm actually a really good listener, but once you've had your vent and your cry then let's DO SOMETHING FUN and quit complaining about the past!


----------



## sparkles

@Fat Bozo: Wow, that was a really long post for you, I'm impressed! :tongue:

I am in a similar situation. A good friend is going through a separation, and due to other factors she can play the poor me card. She is taking action to address some things, but isn't to address other things that contribute to her emotional state. I am trying to be a good friend, but it is harder to spend significant time with someone when they are depressed. 

I'm not trying to make her snap out of it, but it's harder to be there for her when it's like this. Not to mention there's some other things at play here, and she shoots down my ideas for things we can plan to do. I have a strong urge to just back off and focus on other things, and let her get in touch when she's ready, but since she is going through a tough time I'm trying to be a good friend.


----------



## Cynae

Okay, uh, I'm going to jump in on this.

My mom is an ESFP (she's my only experience with them up close, so please bear with me here. Don't think I'm saying all ESFPs are this way) and it took me /forever/ to understand where she's coming from, and even then she still manages to annoy me. That being said, she's very high E and high S, so while having some N tendencies they don't balance the S out at all.

The reason I don't really get along with her is that she says EVERYTHING that passes through her mind without any filter whatsoever, and seeing as she relies very heavily on S, many times what she does or says ends up lacking tact. I KNOW she doesn't notice it, but I can't help but feel ticked off by this.

On the contrary, my ENFP friend - while acting quite similar to an ESFP - seems to be more subtle with what he says and notices the context much more.

Don't get me wrong, I honestly don't have anything against you guys. I'm just answering the main question here, and I'm sure there are plenty of awesome ESFPs out there. In fact, I have a classmate who seems to be one, and she's one of the most awesome people I know. From a distance, at least.

EDIT: Oh shit, I hope I didn't just necro this... OTL; I didn't really look at the date of the last post.


----------



## XL Sweatshirt

I know plenty of ESFP's that are very pleasant and great companions. They're so fun to be around!

I think the dislike towards ESFP... is more towards the dumb ESFP stereotype. Not all ESFP's are dumb. Just as with any type, there are some duds. But the classic dumb ESFP stereotype, is sort of like you're popular girl in highschool that's more about socials, clothes, and makeup than anything else. I know plenty of very intelligent ESFP's though, and have many friends that so happen to be ESFP. 

Also, an unhealthy Fi can be very immature and defensive and mean. This isn't fun to be around. This is something I think is more common amongst Fi-aux than Fi-dom's, though Fi-dom's can be quite guilty of the same. This could be your mean, popular girl stereotype.


----------



## roxasquall

Sorry everyone, I'm going to revive this discussion.

As an ENFJ, I have not had the privilege to be with an ESFP until grad school. From the ENFJ perspective, I found ESFPs to be incredibly the opposite of my personality. I am friends with an ESFP but here are the things I've noticed and I really don't understand because I don't live like an ESFP. We're both male btw.

Similarities:
We're emotional. We give off the same vibe in terms of how we show our emotions.
We're extroverted. We like being around people.

- I assume this is because of the E and F of our letters, and both help give that vibe off

Differences: 

He takes everything literal. Everything I say to him, he takes literally, while it's obvious that I'm being sarcastic or have some tone that makes it obvious that I'm just playing around.

We're both in leadership, but he doesn't plan anything while I have all my things organized and in place. It frustrates me that he's so unorganized and yet has a higher position than me. 

I am not one for materialism, yet he cares about materialism a lot and I feel that he is insecure or needs to dress well everyday in order to be "judged" correctly. I dress like a bum everyday to class because I don't care how people see me. 

He's extremely selfish, and he admits it to me. I can't imagine being selfish because I feel guilty inside if I think of myself before others.

He's superficial and just thinks about stuff and music and the here and now. I think a lot of in depth stuff like going into one's soul and just understanding life and love and the people around us and making a difference to others. 

I'm very expressive of deeper things that goes on in my life, and every time I talk to him about it, he can't give any advice, which is really frustrating to me. He said he can be an ear to listen, but I want advice and stuff.

My best friends know me back and forth and know everything about me. His best friends are there when he needs advice on something, but the way he told me, it doesn't seem like they know him at all. They're just there when he needs them, and if they die, then he won't be able to tell people anything about himself.

I'm always willing to talk about my feelings but he said it's weird doing that, and that I'm his first guy friend that does this in a normal basis. 

He's undependable and flakes out, even when I'm talking to him right now online, he never responds or just goes offline (which is pretty annoying).

He just wants to chill with friends, but I feel like he wouldn't be concern for them. I'm always looking out for my friends, making sure that they're doing okay and that they're doing well.

I don't know if I'm being closed minded or I just can't see how living a life like that would be satisfying. Maybe it's the way I live my life, a life of loving people, and putting others first above my own. Maybe love is very foreign to ESFPs because it's an abstract concept. When I say I love a person to my NF friends, they all know it's brotherly love, or a love that is non-sexual but bro love. When I tell my ESFP friend, he gets really weirded out, and I wonder if he's taking it all literally, because that's annoying. Yeah I don't know. It's like he's stubborn to change, I'm stubborn to change. I want him to change for the better, but he wants to stay put (this also could be me being closed minded). I would like to be better friends with my ESFP friend. It just seems like everything I do, he's either undependable or just doesn't get it sometimes. He did not come from a great family background, and I want to act like a friend/brother to him and to be able to give him something that he didn't have before. I want to be able to support him and resolve any trust issues he has and to be able to provide emotional support like a brother. I know these things take time, and I need to learn to be patient and be a sincere friend and show that to him. Please advise. Thanks.

If I sound arrogant in any way or like an arse, please know that I'm not trying to say I'm right, he's wrong or be unpleasant to him. I'm trying to relate to him in a more personable way or in a way that I am able to help him as a friend/colleague.


----------



## possiBri

roxasquall said:


> I would like to be better friends with my ESFP friend. It just seems like everything I do, he's either undependable or just doesn't get it sometimes. He did not come from a great family background, and I want to act like a friend/brother to him and to be able to give him something that he didn't have before. I want to be able to support him and resolve any trust issues he has and to be able to provide emotional support like a brother. I know these things take time, and I need to learn to be patient and be a sincere friend and show that to him. Please advise. Thanks.


The best way you can help is to do these things for yourself (the ones that apply), and to be a role model for him. You can't solve his problems, or get him to "get it" — you can only lead by example and then when he's ready, he'll either ask you about stuff or do stuff on his own. It sucks to see a friend stuck in turmoil/sadness/close-mindedness... but we can't change other people, we can only show them the way (kinda like lead a horse to water, but can't make it drink).

I have a pretty good ESFP friend, and I can relate to a lot of what you talked about, and many times when we'd be talking about stuff I'd offer other perspectives and it'd piss him off and he'd start yelling and telling me to "just say I'm wrong" because that's how he interpreted it when I was really just trying to offer another way of looking at something. So, again, I understand your difficulty, but at the end of the day all you can do is take care of you and work on your own issues/hang-ups, and he will either want to rise to your "level" (based on how he sees you being), or he'll move on because he's not interested/ready. It may be a sad way for things to go, but it's not up to you to make that decision for him (no matter how obvious/easy it is to you).

Hang in there! =]


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## roxasquall

possiBri said:


> The best way you can help is to do these things for yourself (the ones that apply), and to be a role model for him. You can't solve his problems, or get him to "get it" — you can only lead by example and then when he's ready, he'll either ask you about stuff or do stuff on his own. It sucks to see a friend stuck in turmoil/sadness/close-mindedness... but we can't change other people, we can only show them the way (kinda like lead a horse to water, but can't make it drink).
> 
> I have a pretty good ESFP friend, and I can relate to a lot of what you talked about, and many times when we'd be talking about stuff I'd offer other perspectives and it'd piss him off and he'd start yelling and telling me to "just say I'm wrong" because that's how he interpreted it when I was really just trying to offer another way of looking at something. So, again, I understand your difficulty, but at the end of the day all you can do is take care of you and work on your own issues/hang-ups, and he will either want to rise to your "level" (based on how he sees you being), or he'll move on because he's not interested/ready. It may be a sad way for things to go, but it's not up to you to make that decision for him (no matter how obvious/easy it is to you).
> 
> Hang in there! =]


Thank you so much @possiBri. I've never been this close with an ESFP before, so I really don't know how to interact with them, especially since our S and N clash more than our J and P. I can live with a P; I've done it before. It's like a clash of worlds. We both have the same vibe when people talk about us, but the way we think and live is drastically different. Every time I see my friend, I'm thinking, you carry the same vibe as me, and I expect you to live a life like me, but you live a life so foreign to me. It's so strange. 

We actually hung out together at a gathering, and I could tell he felt kinda out of place since there were all these N's there and obviously we are not the type to say things literally, but talk about abstract concepts and watch body language and movements. It was our ISFJ friend's birthday who we both love (or maybe love is to abstract for him, I love, he likes as a friend), and we're sort of her children. I think I'm the favourite though since our "N-ness" can relate to each other in a deeper way. LOL :tongue:. Anyway, I felt bad because I can tell he wasn't having a good time, and he just didn't know how to respond since all us "Ns" were making a mess with our crazy connections.






So yeah, felt bad that he couldn't jump into our conversation.

But then again, the same goes for me when I hang around his friends, which are all "S's." I can't relate when they talk about, Omg, let's go to Vegas, get drunk, gamble all our money away, talk about music, clothes, expensive cars, watches, going to crazy concerts and not remembering the night. I can't relate to that because that doesn't appeal to me. Now I would be the person left out in those situations because I either don't know how to add or *in reality* don't care about those things. It's crazy going to the "S" side of things and actually feeling left out or not knowing how to respond to certain things. Yes I do think about having a million dollars, and what I would do with it, but my emphasis is more on people (_obviously because I'm an ENFJ_). 

I feel like I'm in a foreign land when I'm around his group of friends, but then again, he fee's like he's out of place when he's around mine. Anyway to resolve this? I think we need an even number of Ss and Ns together for our group to work and understand each other.


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## Fat Bozo

roxasquall said:


> I feel like I'm in a foreign land when I'm around his group of friends, but then again, he fee's like he's out of place when he's around mine. Anyway to resolve this? I think we need an even number of Ss and Ns together for our group to work and understand each other.


I'm able to sustain pretty long conversations with N type people, but my natural instinct of course is to keep steering the conversation back towards more concrete examples of things, just as the Ns will keep steering it back into the abstract. But I have enough experience with it now that I can keep a pretty good convo going for a while, kind of weaving back and forth that way. Sure, I may zone out sometimes but really, I just have to pick a point to re-enter the conversation where I can crack a joke based on something someone said, usually the literal words of what they said, regardless of what the overall conversation was about.

But it's a two-way street. If the N is willing to do a little more "concrete talk" then might be ideal for them, and the S is willing to allow a little more abstraction than might be ideal for them, then you can have awesome conversations sometimes where you learn a lot from each other.


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## possiBri

Yeah, it's definitely tough, and I totally relate to what you said about how it's like you're the same, but then coming from two completely different worlds. It can be VERY trying at times, but we've also had some pretty amazing conversations. I think what I've found is that I usually get bored when our talks become too detail-laden and linear. My Ne doesn't want everything in linear order, but in the order of necessity to understand a story most efficiently (prob some Ti influence there), so it would drive me crazy when my ESFP friend would tell me a story and I'd have all these questions before he even got to the point, which, would piss him off, 1) because I would interrupt him (which may or may not cause him to lose his place), and 2) because "I'm getting there!" — which would KILL me. But, I have also learned to be more tolerant, though I still have to work on not zoning out when the details start weighing me down and causing me to lose interest. I like details... just relevant ones.

I would say the best way to get along better with S's in those social situations, would be to think of a few concrete things that you are interested in. You might get some really revealing perspectives on things simply because you're asking an S instead of an N. However, some people are just super surfacy/materialistic, and it's going to be difficult to get a deeper conversation going, but it's not impossible. My ESFP friend can have really interesting thoughts, which spawn amazing conversations, but that's him. He loves history and science and animals, all stuff I'm totally down to talk about, but it doesn't get super conceptual/abstract when we talk (unless I'm giving my personal opinion, then it usually does). So, all I can say is to try and flex your S by thinking of subjects you're interested in and considering the concrete/factual aspects of it. It might not fulfill your Fe, but it might help you enjoy yourself more... and who knows, you'll probably learn something new (and the others probably will too)!


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## roxasquall

Fat Bozo said:


> I'm able to sustain pretty long conversations with N type people, but my natural instinct of course is to keep steering the conversation back towards more concrete examples of things, just as the Ns will keep steering it back into the abstract. But I have enough experience with it now that I can keep a pretty good convo going for a while, kind of weaving back and forth that way. Sure, I may zone out sometimes but really, I just have to pick a point to re-enter the conversation where I can crack a joke based on something someone said, usually the literal words of what they said, regardless of what the overall conversation was about.
> 
> But it's a two-way street. If the N is willing to do a little more "concrete talk" then might be ideal for them, and the S is willing to allow a little more abstraction than might be ideal for them, then you can have awesome conversations sometimes where you learn a lot from each other.


I'm learning. We were talking last night, and I laugh sometimes because there are times when he takes things too literally, and I'm speaking metaphorically, but yeah it's tough having two different conversations and seeing things from two different points of view. But I can see he's trying to get that "N" in. When we hung out together with all the "N"s and him, I saw his "N" working a little bit. I'm trying to figure out how to relate to "S"s more. Majority of my class is a "S" personality, so there are times when I just don't know what to say because I don't think about concrete things that often. I talk above love, people, family, past, present, future. He talks about money, cars, houses, music, concerts, and I'm trying to be more "S" so I can relate and talk about stuff and not make the conversation awkward. We're both strongly on our "N" and "S" side respectively so I find it extremely difficult to budge. 

I did experience his personality more last year, which I've read on forums that you must "experience" ESFPs to know them. Well I got to know him alright, and also my tolerance limit and being plastered on the floor (not fun for me), and his ridiculous amount of spending at night clubs and places. After all that, I felt like I didn't know him anymore than when I first met him. I just know what he does. So technically, I did budge. Now I'm hoping that he'll budge towards my personality and experience my personality more, being altruistic, being there for people, getting to the root of things, solving problems head on, being a leader and mentoring others. Also having fun while at it and having meaningful discussions (obviously all this is from my point of view of how life should be. I'm not trying to degrade anyone so please don't take offense to these comments). Lol, reading that again made my life seem boring hahaha. 

But yeah, @Fat Bozo, what "S" topics should I talk about or how can I relate to "S"s more? Or ESFPs for that matter? I think we're both budging, I'm just trying to figure out how I can budge better without getting myself into trouble


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## roxasquall

possiBri said:


> Yeah, it's definitely tough, and I totally relate to what you said about how it's like you're the same, but then coming from two completely different worlds. It can be VERY trying at times, but we've also had some pretty amazing conversations. I think what I've found is that I usually get bored when our talks become too detail-laden and linear. My Ne doesn't want everything in linear order, but in the order of necessity to understand a story most efficiently (prob some Ti influence there), so it would drive me crazy when my ESFP friend would tell me a story and I'd have all these questions before he even got to the point, which, would piss him off, 1) because I would interrupt him (which may or may not cause him to lose his place), and 2) because "I'm getting there!" — which would KILL me. But, I have also learned to be more tolerant, though I still have to work on not zoning out when the details start weighing me down and causing me to lose interest. I like details... just relevant ones.
> 
> I would say the best way to get along better with S's in those social situations, would be to think of a few concrete things that you are interested in. You might get some really revealing perspectives on things simply because you're asking an S instead of an N. However, some people are just super surfacy/materialistic, and it's going to be difficult to get a deeper conversation going, but it's not impossible. My ESFP friend can have really interesting thoughts, which spawn amazing conversations, but that's him. He loves history and science and animals, all stuff I'm totally down to talk about, but it doesn't get super conceptual/abstract when we talk (unless I'm giving my personal opinion, then it usually does). So, all I can say is to try and flex your S by thinking of subjects you're interested in and considering the concrete/factual aspects of it. It might not fulfill your Fe, but it might help you enjoy yourself more... and who knows, you'll probably learn something new (and the others probably will too)!


Oh man @possiBri, I can relate to the details part. I zone out when I find the details irrelevant to the whole conversation. The thing is though, my ESFP friend hasn't really given me stories or anything. He's usually kept to himself, which kind of surprises me since that's one of the differences from the norm of ESFPs. He doesn't talk that much when we have one-on-ones. I don't know if he's zoning out because he finds my stuff too boring or that he just has nothing to say. It could also be because I'm a guy, and he's not as comfortable around guys as he is with girls, which kinda bugs me since I don't get what the difference between girls and guys are besides that I have balls and no breast. I could just be as sensitive about things, and actually I accommodate it and I told him that it's okay if he is. I think the whole manliness stuff gets to him though, and the fact that he's considered a little feminine makes it a little harder. People say the same thing about me, but I just don't care what people say and I'm too confident of myself to care about stupid things like that.

Anyway, back to the main point, I feel like I dominate the conversation when we talk (I also have a strong personality as well). I guess when it gets too abstract, he can't follow. He's super materialistic, so I can't follow it either. I find it too shallow for my taste, but as @Fat Bozo said, we both have to give in a little bit to the other side in order for this friendship to work. It sucks that we both can relate and connect with each other the most in our program, yet we're the most polar opposite of personalities. My ESFP friend likes animals. I couldn't care less for them, but he loves them, especially dogs. I'll try to stir a conversation that way, but I can only go so far because my knowledge of animals is limited (and my care for them as well). I'm a musician, but he isn't, so that's a topic that I can't talk about. He's not really tech geeky type person. He's into games, but we're both into different types of games. We're both into living in a certain place, but we've exhausted that conversation many times. He likes watching TV, I don't. He likes clubbing and partying and getting everyone drunk, I don't (and I don't like cleaning the mess he makes either). We both like photography. That's something that maybe I can make conversation with and about Apple products. He likes desserts. I don't. I tried making conversation with food, it stopped with, I like everything :bored:. Yeah...trying to go to the "S" side is really hard. Any other topics for discussion with ESFPs that works? Thanks!


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## Kitfool

Peeps be jealous, thassall!

ESFPs are fantastic! Once we develop Fi at least. I think I may have been a horrible person when I was a teenager, so at that point, any hatred towards me was probably warranted. My bad!


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## sasspot

Kr3m1in said:


> @sparkles , many people do drugs, that's not the issue really well the esfps I've been in contact with had a lot more turn-offs packed in them than just drug use...i'm not typist against them, they are fun and generous people, they just fuck with people's trust..a lot..that's really the thing..
> and, all the manipulation, of course..


ESFP's are not naturally manipulative people. That's more of an ENFP trait. We want everyone to be happy and want the best for everyone. We rarely put our own hidden agenda's before someone else's well being because we would feel too guilty. I'm not sure what "ESFP" tarnished your view on us, but we truly have the best of intentions. 

Also, what was it that you couldn't trust about us? I know there is all this hearsay that we "go through partners like water", but I personally don't ever. Yes I get bored easily, but when I am in a relationship, I truly love and respect my partner enough to communicate this and work at the relationship. I am very loyal. I also hate causing drama so anything you confide in me will stay with me.


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## ferroequinologist

sasspot said:


> ESFP's are not naturally manipulative people. That's more of an ENFP trait. We want everyone to be happy and want the best for everyone. We rarely put our own hidden agenda's before someone else's well being because we would feel too guilty. I'm not sure what "ESFP" tarnished your view on us, but we truly have the best of intentions.
> 
> Also, what was it that you couldn't trust about us? I know there is all this hearsay that we "go through partners like water", but I personally don't ever. Yes I get bored easily, but when I am in a relationship, I truly love and respect my partner enough to communicate this and work at the relationship. I am very loyal. I also hate causing drama so anything you confide in me will stay with me.


Agreed. If someone is being more manipulative of others, then it is more likely to be an ESTP, than ESFP. ESFPs may go hot and cold, but that is not the same thing as playing with people for their own ends. My older brother is, I think ESFP, and I used to think he was using me, but the truth was that he just kept making promises he couldn't keep--but that was because he wanted to make me happy. He couldn't see that his failure to keep his word was undermining my trust in him. I've known an ESTP who does that sort of thing too, but then he tries to make you feel like it's your fault he didn't keep his word, and tries to spin things. This is, of course, when a person goes bad, and not normal.


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## Fat Bozo

I think ESFPs can definitely be manipulative, but often it's unintentional. We sometimes underestimate our own abilities to get our way through our emotional mood swings.


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## Antipode

Manipulative? 

Fi types aren't usually that manipulative. They are usually too vocal about their emotions and problems for it to be considered manipulative. 

ESFPs are cool and all, but they are ALWAYS THERE. xD They demand so much emotional attention--they are like a tamagotchi pet.

If you don't feed them, they instantly text you with, "YOU DON'T LOVE ME?! :crying:"

Haha; I say in jest... kind of.


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## Fat Bozo

Antipode said:


> Manipulative?
> 
> Fi types aren't usually that manipulative. They are usually too vocal about their emotions and problems for it to be considered manipulative.
> 
> ESFPs are cool and all, but they are ALWAYS THERE. xD They demand so much emotional attention--they are like a tamagotchi pet.
> 
> If you don't feed them, they instantly text you with, "YOU DON'T LOVE ME?! :crying:"
> 
> Haha; I say in jest... kind of.


There's a lot of people who consider that manipulative. 

Now, I don't send such messages but I do think it sometimes.


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## Antipode

Fat Bozo said:


> There's a lot of people who consider that manipulative.
> 
> Now, I don't send such messages but I do think it sometimes.


It can manipulate the person, but I wouldn't call them manipulative. They don't usually do it for that reason. They just feel it, and then speak it. Almost uncontrollable.


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## Fat Bozo

Antipode said:


> It can manipulate the person, but I wouldn't call them manipulative. They don't usually do it for that reason. They just feel it, and then speak it. Almost uncontrollable.



Well, yeah. That's exactly what I said in my earlier post. :wink:


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## Antipode

Fat Bozo said:


> Well, yeah. That's exactly what I said in my earlier post. :wink:


I apologize for the repeat. I don't usually read through 12 pages of posts.  Unless it's a super interesting topic.


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## Fat Bozo

Antipode said:


> I apologize for the repeat. I don't usually read through 12 pages of posts.  Unless it's a super interesting topic.


Well it was only 4 minutes before your post. roud:


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## AL1CE

"Why do peeps be hatin' on ESFP?" Because they're jelly, duh


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## ai.tran.75

People hate esfp? Never knew that - probably bc they're not as free spirited . I love esfps 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## kittenmogu

The other day I saw someone write something like "ugh, have had enough of SF and FP's in my life." Well aren't you a ball of sunshine, Scrooge McDuck :wink: Probably wish they could take an approach to life that seems so light-hearted (while it really isn't, it just comes off that way).


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## The Hatter

I don't necessarily _despise_ ESFPs. It's just the fact that most (actually, every single one I'd met) seemed to have no clear friendship. They are friends with literally _everyone_. That's the thing; I can't trust them at all. If they tell me that I am their best friend, either I would presume that 'I am one of the many "best friends" you have.' or they simply aren't being serious when they say it. Also, they care *way* too much about how everyone perceive them. The moment someone criticize them, it's like the world is ending. Lastly, they either take everything too seriously or not seriously at all. Conclusion--They wouldn't be my first choice for friends.


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## AL1CE

It's funny how some people think that the difference between ENFPs and ESFPs is that ESFPs are annoying, because we find ENFPs annoying. You tend to be more popular than us (that drives us a bit crazy because we want to be the centre of attention) and because you're both popular and super nice you spread yourself too thinly over your many admirers meaning you accidently don't have much time for anyone. ESFPs are more discerning, given the choice between spending a day with person a) and a day with person b) we'll chose the person we like more. ENFPs will spend half a day with each only they won't because they'll have to fit a third person in too. Actually the ESFP will invite person a) and b) to the same place so that we can show off to both of them but one of them won't show up for some reason we'll never understand.


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## OrangeAppled

Antipode said:


> Manipulative?
> 
> Fi types aren't usually that manipulative. They are usually too vocal about their emotions and problems for it to be considered manipulative.
> 
> ESFPs are cool and all, but they are ALWAYS THERE. xD They demand so much emotional attention--they are like a tamagotchi pet.
> 
> If you don't feed them, they instantly text you with, "YOU DON'T LOVE ME?! :crying:"
> 
> Haha; I say in jest... kind of.



I suspect you don't type people accurately. 

Jung on Introverted Feeling:
_Since [Fi] is conditioned subjectively and is only secondarily concerned with the object, *it seldom appears on the surface* and is generally misunderstood.

*It makes people silent and difficult of access*; it shrinks back like a violet from the brute nature of the object *in order to fill the depths of the subject. [ie. emotion is turned inward, not expressed towards the object]*


'Still waters run deep' is very true of such women. They are *mostly silent, inaccessible, and hard to understand*; often they hide behind a childish or banal mask, and their temperament is inclined to melancholy. *They neither shine nor reveal themselves*. As they are mainly guided by their subjective feelings, their true motives generally remain hidden. *Their outward demeanor is harmonious and inconspicuous*, giving an impression of pleasing repose, or of sympathetic response, with *no desire to affect others*, to impress, influence, or change them in any way. 

*Expression of feeling, therefore, remains niggardly...
*
Since this type appears rather cold and reserved, *it might seem on a superficial view that such women have no feelings at all*. Such a view, however, would be quite false; the truth is, their feelings are intensive rather than extensive. They develop in depth. *While an extensive feeling of sympathy can express itself in appropriate words and deeds*, and thus quickly gets back to normal again, *an intensive sympathy, being shut off from every means of expression, gains a passionate depth that comprises a whole world of misery and is simply benumbed. [ie. Fi doesn't often find an adequate means of expressing feelings/emotions, and so they are turned inward, where they grow in intensity/depth, but outwardly they appear "numbed" or to not exist].*_


What you describe is likely due to extroversion, which means it occurs in ExFJs also. I would say even ExTPs types can be more expressive & prone to self-disclosure (ExTJs less so, for reasons I won't go into right now).
Unhealthy Fi, as described by Jung, can result in a morbid self-pity & self-absorption, but that doesn't result in direct expression. It's more evident in a melancholy demeanor & general attitude towards life. In other words, the person is not making everyone a confidante for their feelings & giving off dramatic emotional displays. 

-------


In regards to the thread topic, I have many ESFP friends & quite like them in general. We usually click relatively fast (given that this is ME we're talking about; difficult to get to know & get close to), and we often share a lot of interests. They often like the arts, novelty, and have a more exploratory approach to life that is similar to mine. 

Of course, ESFPs have negative traits & some of these are more pronounced in certain individuals. I do believe that people express a greater dislike towards ESxx types around here in part for these reasons:

1. Familiarity breeds contempt. There is a greater number of ESxx types, and their mentalities & manner of being seem to define "norms", but if you do not relate to this, it can seem contemptuous or antagonizing. After hanging around forums like this a lot, where there is an excess of INxx types, ESxx types can suddenly be very refreshing to be around in person 
2. Greater number of these types means you're bound to bump into the idiotic ones more. It's just a matter of odds. It's harder to get to know other types as compared to ESFPs, and so you may only get contact with those who you become close with, whereas you may have contact with ESFPs you would not choose to be close with. This skews perception as to what types have a higher tendency to be annoying.
3. Plain Ol' Jealousy. As noted, the ESxx types define many of our cultural norms in the US (and elsewhere), and so their ways may be regarded as "better" which is annoying if you are not like them. They also may truly be more charismatic & instantly likable due to their extroverted nature, which can make INxx types resentful (not being as naturally charming instantly). In reality, ESFPs are often very likable and charming, and those who dislike them may do so out of envy because they don't get such positive reception.


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## Antipode

OrangeAppled said:


> I suspect you don't type people accurately.
> 
> Jung on Introverted Feeling:
> _Since [Fi] is conditioned subjectively and is only secondarily concerned with the object, *it seldom appears on the surface* and is generally misunderstood.
> 
> *It makes people silent and difficult of access*; it shrinks back like a violet from the brute nature of the object *in order to fill the depths of the subject. [ie. emotion is turned inward, not expressed towards the object]*
> 
> 
> 'Still waters run deep' is very true of such women. They are *mostly silent, inaccessible, and hard to understand*; often they hide behind a childish or banal mask, and their temperament is inclined to melancholy. *They neither shine nor reveal themselves*. As they are mainly guided by their subjective feelings, their true motives generally remain hidden. *Their outward demeanor is harmonious and inconspicuous*, giving an impression of pleasing repose, or of sympathetic response, with *no desire to affect others*, to impress, influence, or change them in any way.
> 
> *Expression of feeling, therefore, remains niggardly...
> *
> Since this type appears rather cold and reserved, *it might seem on a superficial view that such women have no feelings at all*. Such a view, however, would be quite false; the truth is, their feelings are intensive rather than extensive. They develop in depth. *While an extensive feeling of sympathy can express itself in appropriate words and deeds*, and thus quickly gets back to normal again, *an intensive sympathy, being shut off from every means of expression, gains a passionate depth that comprises a whole world of misery and is simply benumbed. [ie. Fi doesn't often find an adequate means of expressing feelings/emotions, and so they are turned inward, where they grow in intensity/depth, but outwardly they appear "numbed" or to not exist].*_
> 
> 
> What you describe is likely due to extroversion, which means it occurs in ExFJs also. I would say even ExTPs types can be more expressive & prone to self-disclosure (ExTJs less so, for reasons I won't go into right now).
> Unhealthy Fi, as described by Jung, can result in a morbid self-pity & self-absorption, but that doesn't result in direct expression. It's more evident in a melancholy demeanor & general attitude towards life. In other words, the person is not making everyone a confidante for their feelings & giving off dramatic emotional displays.


I have absolutely no clue how what you said had anything to do with what I said, or how I countered it. 

I guess since I said Fi types aren't usually manipulative, you decided to show how they are? I don't know...

Thanks for how you began your passage with a compliment, though. Sometimes I worry that people online would be annoyingly rude, or instantaneously judgmental. I'm glad you aren't like that.

... And they say INFJs are passive aggressive. Psh.


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## ai.tran.75

AL1CE said:


> It's funny how some people think that the difference between ENFPs and ESFPs is that ESFPs are annoying, because we find ENFPs annoying. You tend to be more popular than us (that drives us a bit crazy because we want to be the centre of attention) and because you're both popular and super nice you spread yourself too thinly over your many admirers meaning you accidently don't have much time for anyone. ESFPs are more discerning, given the choice between spending a day with person a) and a day with person b) we'll chose the person we like more. ENFPs will spend half a day with each only they won't because they'll have to fit a third person in too. Actually the ESFP will invite person a) and b) to the same place so that we can show off to both of them but one of them won't show up for some reason we'll never understand.


I disagree kind of - I highly doubt esfp are jealous of enfp in real life that is . I would think our high spirit energy would eliminate that. As for esfp focusing on one person at a time - that's very true and I'm very honored (thinking about my cousin whom I love more than my husband ) sorry - I'll admit it - we often spread ourself thin do to easily feeling guilt but if you ever say " I want my me time just you and me" quite sure we will make a day showering attention only on you '.


I love esfp - I don't think anyone hate esfp and for those who complain about you guys it's either our of jealousy or mbti stereotypes  




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## OrangeAppled

Antipode said:


> I have absolutely no clue how what you said had anything to do with what I said, or how I countered it.


"_They are usually too vocal about their emotions and problems"
_ 



> I guess since I said Fi types aren't usually manipulative, you decided to show how they are? I don't know...


The point: The Fi type is not characteristically "vocal about emotions" or prone to self-disclocure concerning problems. An association with that & ESFPs is not about them "using" Fi.



> Thanks for how you began your passage with a compliment, though. Sometimes I worry that people online would be annoyingly rude, or instantaneously judgmental. I'm glad you aren't like that.


You are choosing to take a criticism of your typing skills & disagreement with your understanding of a concept and turn it into a personal insult. In no way did I attack your person, whereas here you are trying to passively attack my character by inferring I am annoyingly rude & instantaneously judgmental. Please learn the difference & then you will have no reason to be offended.


----------



## Antipode

OrangeAppled said:


> "_They are usually too vocal about their emotions and problems"
> _
> 
> 
> 
> The point: The Fi type is not characteristically "vocal about emotions" or prone to self-disclocure concerning problems. An association with that & ESFPs is not about them "using" Fi.
> 
> 
> 
> You are choosing to take a criticism of your typing skills & disagreement with your understanding of a concept and turn it into a personal insult. In no way did I attack your person, whereas here you are trying to passively attack my character by inferring I am annoyingly rude & instantaneously judgmental. Please learn the difference & then you will have no reason to be offended.


You are over generalizing a single function. When in fact, we use all of our functions at one time, each at varying degrees, which makes each type unique.

Every single INFP, ENFP, and ESFP I've known, have been very open about their emotions. Am I saying they go to the grocery store and start telling strangers about them? No. I'm saying that when I get to know them, they open the floodgates. 

You're going to have a very hard time typing humans if you choose to focus on the characteristics of a single function. A single gear may have its own personality, but when thrown into a system of other cogs, it is at mercy of many functions working in tandem with one another. 

Extroversion with Fi does make one more readily open to more people.
Introversion with Fi does make one more readily open to people they are close to. 

Fi users are not just some closed up house that don't express their emotions... that's more of a Fe trait. (Haha). 

And I said you weren't annoyingly rude. You're very different from the typical online user. That's a compliment.


----------



## AL1CE

ai.tran.75 said:


> I disagree kind of - I highly doubt esfp are jealous of enfp in real life that is . I would think our high spirit energy would eliminate that. As for esfp focusing on one person at a time - that's very true and I'm very honored (thinking about my cousin whom I love more than my husband ) sorry - I'll admit it - we often spread ourself thin do to easily feeling guilt but if you ever say " I want my me time just you and me" quite sure we will make a day showering attention only on you '.
> 
> 
> I love esfp - I don't think anyone hate esfp and for those who complain about you guys it's either our of jealousy or mbti stereotypes


One of my best friends is an ENFP. He's easily in my top 3 friends. I'd like to think I'm in his top 10. He has a lot more friends than me. I don't think he's more awesome than me. I don't think he thinks that either. I would like to have more friends but if I started with as many as he has, I'd get rid of some. I would like him to spend more time with me and he knows as much but if I actually started making demands he would lose respect for me and I wouldn't blame him. In my extended social circle he will always be the King and I will always be the Jester who has his ear. Some of his friends probably don't like me but they'd be damn stupid if they tried to turn him against me. ENFPs can see the soul within an ESFP.


----------



## Fat Bozo

ArtOfBreaking said:


> I don't necessarily _despise_ ESFPs. It's just the fact that most (actually, every single one I'd met) seemed to have no clear friendship. They are friends with literally _everyone_. That's the thing; I can't trust them at all. If they tell me that I am their best friend, either I would presume that 'I am one of the many "best friends" you have.' or they simply aren't being serious when they say it. Also, they care *way* too much about how everyone perceive them. The moment someone criticize them, it's like the world is ending. Lastly, they either take everything too seriously or not seriously at all. Conclusion--They wouldn't be my first choice for friends.


I dunno about other ESFPs but I don't like to rank friends or anything like that. I feel like we're all just travelers on the road of life, no one's above or below anybody else. So, yes I *want* to be friends with everyone, but of course not everyone wants to be friends with me. 

And that stuff about ESFPs having lots of acquaintances but very few close friends is very true for me. I would LOVE to have a best friend that I could share whatever with and would always be there for me, but I never have in my entire life. That situation is the stuff of movies and tv shows to me because I've never experienced it in real life. It wasn't until just last year or so when someone told me "you're my best friend" for the first time in my life. I almost cried, I was so touched. But she really didn't mean it the way I would if I said that. She basically just meant I was the one at work she could talk to the best. Because we really don't hang out that much outside of work, which to me, if someone is a best friend, we should hang out a lot outside of work. 

One of the things that learning about personality types has taught me is that people use the same words and phrases to mean very different things. So if an ESFP calls you "best friend" but wants to be friends with lots of other people, it doesn't necessarily mean they are being dishonest or untrustworthy.

About how others perceive me - I think I have matured in this a lot. I'm 37 years old and my attitude now is one more of "some people aren't gonna like me, and that's ok. I'd just like some people to." When I was younger I would get a lot more upset when I thought someone was mad at me or didn't like me, but I came to realize life's too short to worry about that so much, just be myself and be grateful for the people that give me positive attention.

I hear you on the "too seriously or not seriously at all." What can I say, that's just how I've always been. I think my mind instantly categorizes things I encounter as being something serious or not, and I don't half-ass anything. :tongue:


----------



## OrangeAppled

Antipode said:


> You are over generalizing a single function. When in fact, we use all of our functions at one time, each at varying degrees, which makes each type unique.
> 
> Every single INFP, ENFP, and ESFP I've known, have been very open about their emotions. Am I saying they go to the grocery store and start telling strangers about them? No. I'm saying that when I get to know them, they open the floodgates.
> 
> You're going to have a very hard time typing humans if you choose to focus on the characteristics of a single function. A single gear may have its own personality, but when thrown into a system of other cogs, it is at mercy of many functions working in tandem with one another.
> 
> Extroversion with Fi does make one more readily open to more people.
> Introversion with Fi does make one more readily open to people they are close to.
> 
> Fi users are not just some closed up house that don't express their emotions... that's more of a Fe trait. (Haha).
> 
> And I said you weren't annoyingly rude. You're very different from the typical online user. That's a compliment.


Those quotes from Jung's Psychological Types are not about the function Fi - they are about the Introverted Feeling type, as a personality. 

Saying "I know people I've typed as X type & they act Y way" does nothing to support anything, because if you are typing them incorrectly, then they prove nothing about that type. The criteria is the definition of the type, or else we can claim anything about any type based on our personal anecdotes.

Emotional openness of ExFPs is explained with extroversion, not being an FP. Of course people are more than their ego (which is the dominant function), which is why the characteristics of the Fi type don't all apply to types which use Fi but are not Fi-dom.


----------



## ferroequinologist

Antipode said:


> Extroversion with Fi does make one more readily open to more people.
> Introversion with Fi does make one more readily open to people they are close to.
> 
> Fi users are not just some closed up house that don't express their emotions... that's more of a Fe trait. (Haha).


There's some truth to what you say here. But from an Fi perspective, we are not so open about our emotions nor feelings. Emotions tend to slip out without our asking, whereas Fe types (at least aux that I've known) do tend to hold in their emotions--but the difference is that they have a lot more control over their emotions than Fi types.

It's hard for me to explain, but it seems that Fe types can hold it in if they believe that expressing would cause problems, whereas Fi types cannot do that. On the other hand, we keep our true feelings to ourself most of the time--emotions are not feelings, just an outward expression that there is something underneath. The problem is that frequently, people (types with Fe in their stack) think our emotions are directed at them, when much of the time our emotions are inwardly directed, and aren't directly related to the other. 

I think other Fi types would agree with me about this. I'd rather people just take responsibility for their own emotions, and not try to direct their emotions at others. I don't mind expression of emotions, but when you use those to try to get me to act, then I have a problem. I don't like being responsible for others' emotional well-being. If somebody's crying--let em cry. If somebody's mad--let em be mad. I don't care. And I'd just as soon that people ignore my displays of emotions as well. If I'm upset, and someone feels compelled to try to comfort me, or something dumb, then I get upset or even mad at myself for allowing my emotions out, and then the other person thinks I'm mad at them... no. I'm not. I'm merely mad that I put somebody under my own emotions. 

Anyway, I guess I confused everybody here...

Edit: Paragraphs added. Hope that's better. ;-)


----------



## Fat Bozo

ferroequinologist said:


> There's some truth to what you say here. But from an Fi perspective, we are not so open about our emotions nor feelings. Emotions tend to slip out without our asking, whereas Fe types (at least aux that I've known) do tend to hold in their emotions--but the difference is that they have a lot more control over their emotions than Fi types. It's hard for me to explain, but it seems that Fe types can hold it in if they believe that expressing would cause problems, whereas Fi types cannot do that. On the other hand, we keep our true feelings to ourself most of the time--emotions are not feelings, just an outward expression that there is something underneath. The problem is that frequently, people (types with Fe in their stack) think our emotions are directed at them, when much of the time our emotions are inwardly directed, and aren't directly related to the other. I think other Fi types would agree with me about this. I'd rather people just take responsibility for their own emotions, and not try to direct their emotions at others. I don't mind expression of emotions, but when you use those to try to get me to act, then I have a problem. I don't like being responsible for others' emotional well-being. If somebody's crying--let em cry. If somebody's mad--let em be mad. I don't care. And I'd just as soon that people ignore my displays of emotions as well. If I'm upset, and someone feels compelled to try to comfort me, or something dumb, then I get upset or even mad at myself for allowing my emotions out, and then the other person thinks I'm mad at them... no. I'm not. I'm merely mad that I put somebody under my own emotions.
> 
> Anyway, I guess I confused everybody here...


You didn't confuse me. Just try a couple more paragraph breaks next time. :wink:

Before I got into personality stuff, I was always amazed when people would tell me that it was hard to know what I was feeling, because I always feel like my feelings come spilling out all the time, like you said it's not voluntary, it just happens. So I was always puzzled that people would seem to not pick up on my feelings because they seemed so obvious to me. Once I learned about the difference between the introverted and extraverted expressions of feeling then it made more sense. The "Fe types" don't recognize "Fi expression" unless they have learned it also. So if we are not expressing the feelings the way they would then they don't get it.

Meanwhile, "Fi types" often feel like "Fe types" come off as phony or not genuine because their expressions don't look like the natural "spilling out" way of expression we have, so it can seem contrived or staged to us.

God help us all, huh? :tongue:


----------



## C. C. Scott

My most recent crush is on an ESFP, so my response may be biased by that. But I find ESFP's delightful! Very animated conversations especially your guy's facial expressions. I have another ESFP friend who is a rapper and clings to the performer title you all claim, which I have to agree is a good way to describe the few I know. At the same time you can be a little dramatic, but I get overly intense myself so I can't say much about it. :crazy:

I hope you all have a wonderful night! I need to sleep.


----------



## AL1CE

Me: There's this thread on PersonalityCafe called "Why do peeps be hatin' on ESFP?"
My INTJ girlfriend: Because you're fucking annoying, duh!

She's an INTJ so she's probably right.


----------



## ai.tran.75

AL1CE said:


> Me: There's this thread on PersonalityCafe called "Why do peeps be hatin' on ESFP?"
> My INTJ girlfriend: Because you're fucking annoying, duh!
> 
> She's an INTJ so she's probably right.


She's wrong - I love esfps, my cousin , a close friend of mine and my best friends ex(when she left him I was more sad than he was) . I don't find you guys annoying at all 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Zeta Neprok

Well, I know a few ESFPs and I think they're really awesome people. Although one of them is a bit awkward to say the least, but he's probably one of the nicest people I know. The other one never ceases to amaze me with his humour and creativity. I would give anything to come up with the stuff he does. They're good people, and they're tons of fun to hang around with.


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## ferroequinologist

I think Brian Regan is an ESFP. How could folks hate a fellow like him?


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## AL1CE

ai.tran.75 said:


> She's wrong - I love esfps, my cousin , a close friend of mine and my best friends ex(when she left him I was more sad than he was) . I don't find you guys annoying at all
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Maybe we're only annoying to some types.


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## Sadist

sparkles said:


> Serious question. Silly title.
> 
> What are the traits or behaviors you've personally experienced from ESFP that lead you to find it an unpleasant type? I've seen several negative references to the type, but I'm curious to find out what those ESFPs were doing or being to be seen that way.
> 
> I'm starting to also wonder, whether there's plenty of "pleasant" ESFPs out there, who simply get typed as ENFP by the people around them. Like, if you're fun-loving, sociable, openly enthusiastic and annoying then you're ESFP to that person, but if you're fun-loving, sociable, openly enthusiastic and not annoying you're ENFP to that person.


Why do people hate on ESFP? Or why do NT's hate on ESFP?


NT's are shadow SF's 
People don't like their shadow types typically. 
Many NT's don't like SF's.


I will not even be dishonest, many SF's annoy me.
But There are also SF's that I do like.

But to dislike anyone just based off of type is immature.
People like that are typically narrow minded and see their own traits as 'the best traits.'

The irony is. SF's are infamous for doing this.
But NT's who do it have a beef with the SF's for doing it.


I do have one complaint about the ESFP:
CLEAN UP YOUR DAMN MESS!!! DON'T FUCK UP THE KITCHEN WHEN IT's MY WEEK AND LEAVE ME WITH DESSERT FUCKING STORM WHAT THE HELL MAKES YOU THINK THIS IS OKAY?!?!!?


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## AL1CE

Sadist said:


> I do have one complaint about the ESFP:
> CLEAN UP YOUR DAMN MESS!!! DON'T FUCK UP THE KITCHEN WHEN IT's MY WEEK AND LEAVE ME WITH DESSERT FUCKING STORM WHAT THE HELL MAKES YOU THINK THIS IS OKAY?!?!!?


I'm not sure that has anything much to do with type. I think it's just your housemate.


----------



## Gentleman

Personally, I hate on ESFJs, not ESFPs. ESFP's dominant function is my inferior function, so I'm attracted to them. They also don't use Fe, so they don't make me cringe.


----------



## Zeus

I'm estp and my brother is esfp. I wouldn't technically say hes a easily disliked person, but at times he does have his flaws as does every personality type. He gets easily frustrated with what I seem to be a selfish trait in him i.e, some ESFps have issues regarding other peoples personal issues and tend to be passive aggressive to the point they have no problem being kind of douchy(for a lack of better wording) in Scenarios like that. The 2 that I've known, both didn't understand the social protocol that they should not give their opinions unless asked. As a disclaimer beyond that, I get along decently with those types.


----------



## AL1CE

SJs are the worst because it's very hard to reason with them. "Things are this way because that's the way they are." is the SJ mantra.

SJs are like the cogs that keep the world turning but ask them to do something other than turn the exact way they turned yesterday and you might as well fart on their dead grandmother.


----------



## xTheCaramelQueenx

I personally love ESFP's! They are wonderful people- they are Extroverted, sensing, feeling, and perceiving. Doesn't that just sound like such an open minded, easy going person? They are very sweet, and in the end look for the best in people. And contrary to popular belief, they're not party hard junk-bags! Some tend to be, but every type has it's exception, it is so wrong to judge a type negatively as a whole. They are just very easy going people. My senior History teacher in High School, one of the smartest men I know, is an ESFP! He was SO kind, and very caring of other peoples' feelings- and he was VERY knowledgeable on his subject. He never hesitated to answer a question on any topic in History. As I said before, he is one of the most knowledgeable people I know, is very hardworking, and very kind. And he was a definite ESFP! I love that man! Everyone loved him!


----------



## Eikichi

My bestfriend is an ESFP, I don't hate them. But I hate ENFP.


----------



## Sadist

AL1CE said:


> I'm not sure that has anything much to do with type. I think it's just your housemate.


IDK...many of the esfp's I've known seem to be messy..


----------



## XZ9

I think ESFP are very fun people. However, generally speaking, they usually won't care about philosophy or science. It's not like I need to have every friend to talk on that subject. I wouldn't mind comprising not talking about the subjects I like.


----------



## AL1CE

Sadist said:


> IDK...many of the esfp's I've known seem to be messy..


I'm not claiming to be a neat freak. I know my people can be lazy, we'd rather have fun than do chores but I know of at least two INTs more messy than I.

ESFPs care about peoples' reactions to what we do or don't do, so if we like you and we know that you like the washing up to be done, chances are we'll do it, at least some of the time, when we remember or you gently remind us.


----------



## Sadist

AL1CE said:


> I'm not claiming to be a neat freak. I know my people can be lazy, we'd rather have fun than do chores but I know of at least two INTs more messy than I.
> 
> ESFPs care about peoples' reactions to what we do or don't do, so if we like you and we know that you like the washing up to be done, chances are we'll do it, at least some of the time, when we remember or you gently remind us.


liar.


----------



## Inveniet




----------



## The Hatter

I think ESFPs aren't as flaky as others label them. Some of them are still okay. It's just a fact that there is always going to be quite a bit of people from every single type standing out because they are extremely stupid/manipulative and such. One possible reason why you guys might be attacked is due to the fact that ESFPs -in general- suck at hiding anything. If they are ever manipulative, it's obvious. If they are stupid, it's obvious. If they are overly serious, it's obvious. They can't conceal much, unlike other types, nor can they fool others that much. That's probably why ESFPs gets attacked more than others. There are bad and good in every type. It's just that the bad/unhealthy ESFPs are way more obvious than other types, thus receiving a lot more criticism since they are lousy at concealing things.

That's just a theory of mine, but from what I see so far, it seems that way. Feel free to correct me if that's not the case. 


Also, ESFPs that are commenting on this thread, you guys shouldn't use yourself as an example to defend against any criticism of ESFPs. That rather fallacious of you, and it doesn't actually provide any valid example. I noticed most of you using fallacious statements to fight against criticism of any sort, and to be blunt, that doesn't actually prove anything whatsoever.


----------



## AL1CE

Okay I won't use myself as an example: I know an ESFP let's call him FatBozo who thinks that what you said about using one's self as an example is dumb because every ESFP will know more about themselves than they do about other ESFPs.


----------



## something987

ESFPs have good and bad just like any other type. The good are fun, involve everyone, wanna have a good time. The bad are obnoxious, self absorbed, indulgent. As humans, negative experiences tend to impact us more than positive ones, so this may be why. It's hard to ignore an ESFP after all. Plus some of us are a little envious we weren't born with the popularity gene...


----------



## Blazy

Everyone loves ESFPs. ESFPs love life, people, and having fun. What's not to like about them? Even an INTJ friend of mine enjoys the company of ESFPs. Only peeps hating on ESFPs are either autistic or have some type of schizoid/schizotypal disorder; these folks dislike relationships and enjoying life to the fullest, and people who are trying to bring the fun to these disorders will get smacked with 'hatred' in return.. My 2 cents.


----------



## Max

I have an ESFP character, and although he is quite a typical ESFP, I still adore him. He's a barrel of fun compared to some of my other, more serious characters.


----------



## something987

Wh1zkey said:


> Everyone loves ESFPs. ESFPs love life, people, and having fun. What's not to like about them? Even an INTJ friend of mine enjoys the company of ESFPs. Only peeps hating on ESFPs are either autistic or have some type of schizoid/schizotypal disorder; these folks dislike relationships and enjoying life to the fullest, and people who are trying to bring the fun to these disorders will get smacked with 'hatred' in return.. My 2 cents.


Wow, that was...needlessly offensive. Some people just clash with others. It doesn't mean they have a mental or behavioral disorder.


----------



## something987

sasspot said:


> ESFP's are not naturally manipulative people. That's more of an ENFP trait. We want everyone to be happy and want the best for everyone. We rarely put our own hidden agenda's before someone else's well being because we would feel too guilty. I'm not sure what "ESFP" tarnished your view on us, but we truly have the best of intentions.
> 
> Also, what was it that you couldn't trust about us? I know there is all this hearsay that we "go through partners like water", but I personally don't ever. Yes I get bored easily, but when I am in a relationship, I truly love and respect my partner enough to communicate this and work at the relationship. I am very loyal. I also hate causing drama so anything you confide in me will stay with me.


That's kind of rude, throwing us under the bus... ENFPs are not manipulative unless they are undeveloped, in which case so can ESFPs be, or any type if they so choose.


----------



## something987

Eikichi said:


> My bestfriend is an ESFP, I don't hate them. But I hate ENFP.


Why? We are not all the same, and neither are people of any type... What is with the ENFP hate on this thread?


----------



## The Hatter

AL1CE said:


> Okay I won't use myself as an example: I know an ESFP let's call him FatBozo who thinks that what you said about using one's self as an example is dumb because every ESFP will know more about themselves than they do about other ESFPs.



What I am stating is to use more than just one or two ESFPs as examples and evidences for your statements instead of saying that "hey, this doesn't apply to me, therefore, this statement is incorrect!"
You are missing my point here. Use examples that are substantial, not fallacious.


----------



## MNiS

Korpasov said:


> I'd love to get to know an ESFP. I'm thinking of people I have known - or do know - that might be ESFPs, and they're all attractive women. I can't see myself having a very deep conversation with an ESFP from the get go, but I can definitely see myself hanging out with a couple as part of a larger group. They seem like fun.
> 
> The issue is they might, on initial meeting, perceive me as intense or aggressive (or just flat-out weird), and then back away from me after that.


:\ The only time I've ever heard an ESFP call anyone flat-out weird was to an ENTP who was just trying to be friendly. You don't really have to do anything special if you want to approach one. Maybe tell a non-weird joke or a story about something that happened to you that you thought was funny or meaningful.

If you're trying to hop into bed with a female ESFP then well... I can't help you there, buddy. :wink: Although it helps to be well dressed, confident and know a lot of stuff; assuming you're already a good looking guy of course.


----------



## ForestPaix

Because they’re loud and stubborn xD


----------



## turbz11

I think esfps can be too social and attention driven. And they just hog the spotlight and some might even be very careless, along with being self centred.


----------



## Fat Bozo

turbz11 said:


> i think esfps can be too social and attention driven.


no such thing


----------



## something987

turbz11 said:


> I think esfps can be too social and attention driven. And they just hog the spotlight and some might even be very careless, along with being self centred.


Lol what

That's literally our personality, how can we be too social and attention driven...it's who we are

Any type can be self centered if they are immature, we are no more prone to it than any other type


----------



## f8alz28

ESFPs are cool.

Too social and attention driven? That's like saying certain introverts are not social enough and lack the need for attention. I understand how some people are attention whores, but that's more of an individual thing or a disorder like Histrionic Personality Disorder.


----------



## exits

maybe because some people on the internet see NTJs as THE best types there are so conversely if they're the best then SFPs are...well...


----------



## TheProphetLaLa

This is false. Everybody loves me.


----------



## MNiS

I think the question is flawed. I don't sense any hate on ESFPs aside from the occasional troll who throws around a bunch of untrue stereotypes. Otherwise it's quite the opposite in fact, I tend to be very well liked both online and offline.  I'd go so far as to say I'm pretty popular, but I don't do anything to maintain any sense of popularity so it usually fades over time.


----------



## Wellsy

TheProphetLaLa said:


> This is false. Everybody loves me.


I wish someone took advantage of this post and swooped in with a...

"Hello, my name is everybody" XD

oh look, I just did.
Nail'd it.


----------



## FearAndTrembling

They are usually very nice people, and don't try to hurt anybody. But, sometimes, I just want to say, "I didn't buy a ticket for your show. I am not part of your audience." It is arrogant when people try to control the environment like that, and make it about them. I see the environment as like unbroken, pristine skin. Beautiful skin. Some people want to put ugly scars on it, tacky tattoos, or disfigure it in other ways, and call it "expression". 

I get annoyed when people say I should accept these ways. I do not impose on anybody. How about I tell a person to read a certain book, and then demand we talk about it in private? That is what I want to do. I don't try to get the environment to do it though. It is a form of power. Some people say they control the environment, I say they don't. They have no right to do that. I don't owe people communication, interaction or attention. You are not my child. Go bother your parents.


----------



## ferroequinologist

FearAndTrembling said:


> I get annoyed when people say I should accept these ways. I do not impose on anybody.


You're joking, right?


----------



## FearAndTrembling

ferroequinologist said:


> You're joking, right?


Not at all. I want to be left alone, and not draw attention to myself. People simply will not allow me to do that. They never have. Family, school, work, everything. I am expected to belong to so many tribes, and go along with their rituals. 

"Religion is what the individual does with his own solitariness.

Thus religion is solitariness; and if you are never solitary, you are never religious. Collective enthusiasms, revivals, institutions, churches, rituals, bibles, codes of behaviour, are the trappings of religion, its passing forms. They may be useful, or harmful; they may be authoritatively ordained, or merely temporary expedients. But the end of religion is beyond all this."

-Whitehead


----------



## ferroequinologist

FearAndTrembling said:


> Not at all. I want to be left alone, and not draw attention to myself. People simply will not allow me to do that. They never have. Family, school, work, everything. I am expected to belong to so many tribes, and go along with their rituals.


In other threads you've mentioned, even bragged about controlling the atmosphere in an environment... That doesn't jibe at all with what you are saying here...


----------



## FearAndTrembling

ferroequinologist said:


> In other threads you've mentioned, even bragged about controlling the atmosphere in an environment... That doesn't jibe at all with what you are saying here...


Controlling cops and others who were supposed to be helping me. I was not performing. I was taking charge in a serious situation, when others would not, but whose job description is supposed to be that. Those are very rare and extraneous circumstances. They are also very serious. 

It is irrelevant to my larger point. I would never even become a cop. I do not want to assert authority over others. I do not even vote, or campaign for anything. People who vote are people trying to control me, by proxy, through the system. I will not even do that. It is cowardly and unethical. I have no right to do it either. I don't care what anybody else says.


----------



## something987

FearAndTrembling said:


> They are usually very nice people, and don't try to hurt anybody. But, sometimes, I just want to say, "I didn't buy a ticket for your show. I am not part of your audience." It is arrogant when people try to control the environment like that, and make it about them. I see the environment as like unbroken, pristine skin. Beautiful skin. Some people want to put ugly scars on it, tacky tattoos, or disfigure it in other ways, and call it "expression".
> 
> I get annoyed when people say I should accept these ways. I do not impose on anybody. How about I tell a person to read a certain book, and then demand we talk about it in private? That is what I want to do. I don't try to get the environment to do it though. It is a form of power. Some people say they control the environment, I say they don't. They have no right to do that. I don't owe people communication, interaction or attention. You are not my child. Go bother your parents.


Sounds like a personal problem more than an ESFP problem


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## Bishop

Peeps be hatin' on ESFPs cuz ****** be trippin' and shit. Ya feel me?


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## Fat Bozo

Bishop said:


> Peeps be hatin' on ESFPs cuz ****** be trippin' and shit. Ya feel me?


fo realz doe, word.


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## shameless

I have no idea why but it just drives me bananas when I see this thread every time I go into SP sub section. 

"Be hating" ?????????????? Seriously? I am not a hob knob grammar or language Nazi, but really, really? 

The title is so ironic to the question. (In this isolated case, not in everyones case)

And no I am not anti ebonic language I know many relatives who speak it naturally based on environment. Even so them having grown around a lot of ebonics do not translate it into text on social media. 

Anyways my older sis is an ESFP and so was my dad. I do not 'hate' them. I can say that I have a bad bias negative of them because they both happen to of been major addicts that have often been very selfish and self pitying. 

That said I do realize that they do not represent all ESFP and further more I see their positives. They are hands down easily the people that can be the most sincerely endearing and receptive to people in general. 

I just often in their specific case have thought of it more like a Storm passing thru, storms can be good, bring rain, growth, rainbows, exciting, and then they can also just leave destruction. So I am only speaking for those two not all, and well its like well what do we have in store today. Is there going to be rainbows or torn sheds.


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## something987

You just don't get our unique ESFP sense of humor. Plus hatin' on someone is different from hating someone, the first one is being a lil bitch, the second one is being an asshole


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