# Being normal



## Fennel (Jan 11, 2017)

raschel said:


> Ooh you might also realize people are accepting if you decide to stay abnormal. Or anormal. Just takes a while


It takes the right people.


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## raschel (Apr 8, 2014)

Sei35 said:


> It takes the right people.


Definitely. And I mean accepting in a lighter sense. Like at work they aren't going to force you to act like something you are not. I was surprised to see that. 
Or maybe I find my own way of doing what they like that is fine.


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## Llyralen (Sep 4, 2017)

Etherea said:


> In my opinion, this is just growing up. Most people have dreams and aspirations, most people end up giving them up for stability. I could list at least half a dozen careers I would have pursued if I wasn't so afraid of lack of stability and comfortability. When I was a teenager I said I would never work in an office. I thought it would suck my soul out. Here I am years later, pursuing a degree in business and working in an office for almost a decade. Life is funny. So is age.
> 
> Someone might have to take away my ISTJ card, but what you do for work doesn't have to light your soul on fire. We need people to work in the boring fields, the mundane fields, etc too. There are other ways to capture that feeling. Other avenues that would do a better job, especially for some types.
> 
> So you've settled into something comfortable. Enjoy it. But shake things up sometimes (the irony coming from an ISTJ isn't lost on me). Do things that excite you. It can be easy to fall into a boring routine because it's comfortable. Break out of it sometimes. It'll help you feel alive.


Exactly. 
We are all normies. We are all not normies. 
I heard on a show a job interview where the person was asked "What makes you special?" And the person said, "I'm an adult. I know I'm not special." Yeah.... that's the best line of the series. The more experience you have the more you realize everyone is incredibly unique and the more so the more you live and things happen to you.


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## Llyralen (Sep 4, 2017)

I think we are all humans, i think putting people into "other" groups is exclusionary any way you look at it, so why make up labels that didn't need to be there? Honestly when I used to work with people with Down's syndrome-- they taught me a lot about what it was to be human. The emotions are all there.


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## Fennel (Jan 11, 2017)

Alesha said:


> Exactly.
> We are all normies. We are all not normies.
> I heard on a show a job interview where the person was asked "What makes you special?" And the person said, "I'm an adult. I know I'm not special." Yeah.... that's the best line of the series. The more experience you have the more you realize everyone is incredibly unique and the more so the more you live and things happen to you.


That's a surefire way NOT to get the job here. Everyone is forced to act normal. The irony is, that means selling yourself as if you honestly believe that you're special... to work the same old boring desk job, or worse, a call center job working odd hours and getting shit on for a living. And work like that is so normal now that it's not worth complaining about. Not to mention the moral and spiritual degradation that happens from working such degrading jobs...

Please don't give me that Persons with Disabilities card unless they're working ordinary jobs like mine. Most of them get special treatment at work. But I do have a classmate in a wheelchair who also works full time in city hall. Intelligent and tough girl, because she has to be. She'd not be able to do anything at all if she weren't (sadly most private institutions don't even have the facilities or training to handle such cases). She's a decade older than me and has worked there for years but she still has to go to night school to be able to get a promotion.

People like you take things for granted, like work, relationships, and health - things that we have to work twice, even ten times as much for. In the end I just have to decide that none of this is important, if I don't survive. I might as well throw my life away.


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## Anunnaki Spirit (Mar 23, 2018)

Sei35 said:


> That's a surefire way NOT to get the job here. Everyone is forced to act normal. The irony is, that means selling yourself as if you honestly believe that you're special... to work the same old boring desk job, or worse, a call center job working odd hours and getting shit on for a living. And work like that is so normal now that it's not worth complaining about. Not to mention the moral and spiritual degradation that happens from working such degrading jobs...
> 
> Please don't give me that Persons with Disabilities card unless they're working ordinary jobs like mine. Most of them get special treatment at work. But I do have a classmate in a wheelchair who also works full time in city hall. Intelligent and tough girl, because she has to be. She'd not be able to do anything at all if she weren't (sadly most private institutions don't even have the facilities or training to handle such cases). She's a decade older than me and has worked there for years but she still has to go to night school to be able to get a promotion.
> 
> People like you take things for granted, like work, relationships, and health - things that we have to work twice, even ten times as much for. In the end I just have to decide that none of this is important, if I don't survive. I might as well throw my life away.


I know how that feels because that how it is for me as well, for the middle and upper classes life in comparison is almost like peaches and cream where everything happens almost by default so they don't have to struggle as much nor as long to get somewhere in life. Those lower on the pole have to work harder and longer for the same things while at the same time having more disadvantages and greater overall difficulty in life. It even gets worse when it comes to dealing with family and relationships /cringe. 

I've wanted to give up and would spend hours deciding how I was going to do it but as time went by that changed, I want to rise above it all in my own way and did find self worth that is rarely had. Don't throw yours away but find something that makes you feel good about yourself and if all else rub it everyone's face because lets face it that is what people do naturally anyway.


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## Mick Travis (Aug 18, 2016)

The Lonley Hobbit said:


> Those lower on the pole have to work harder and longer for the same things while at the same time having more disadvantages and greater overall difficulty in life.


I've just landed a job as a dishwasher. I don't plan to integrate into the middle class.


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## Anunnaki Spirit (Mar 23, 2018)

Mick Travis said:


> I've just landed a job as a dishwasher. I don't plan to integrate into the middle class.


Good as you won't ruin yourself to keep up with the Joneses but be warned that when you get older you are going to want somewhere to land so to speak and don't ruin your health by working harder and faster than you should. I speak from experience as I was a home health care aid for five years and know how it goes for those who don't take proper care of themselves.


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## Mick Travis (Aug 18, 2016)

The Lonley Hobbit said:


> Good as you won't ruin yourself to keep up with the Joneses but be warned that when you get older you are going to want somewhere to land so to speak


My GF and I will be landing with a little SS and EBT. Health care is a problem for people like me. My GF still finds meaning in faking it, so she' covered from work. The worst case scenario is that we'll be homeless or institutionalized in our twilight years.



The Lonley Hobbit said:


> and don't ruin your health by working harder and faster than you should. I speak from experience as I was a home health care aid for five years and know how it goes for those who don't take proper care of themselves.


Thanks for the concern. Yes, I've gone all out these 1st 2 days. I have 2 days to recover. The kitchen manager told me at the end of the 1st day that I will always have a job there. The general atmosphere is, "Don't kill yourself." So, I won't.


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## Anunnaki Spirit (Mar 23, 2018)

Mick Travis said:


> My GF and I will be landing with a little SS and EBT. Health care is a problem for people like me. My GF still finds meaning in faking it, so she' covered from work. The worst case scenario is that we'll be homeless or institutionalized in our twilight years.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the concern. Yes, I've gone all out these 1st 2 days. I have 2 days to recover. The kitchen manager told me at the end of the 1st day that I will always have a job there. The general atmosphere is, "Don't kill yourself." So, I won't.


Here is something a lot of middle age and older people wished they had known or done themselves is that while you are young save up a little then go buy a cheap plot of land somewhere without any debt. Once you have done that save up again to either put up a house or buy a mobile home without any debt that when you get old and on SS or disability should it be around that long that the two of you have somewhere to live rent and debt free. This is what I am going to do though it will be more difficult for me as I desperately want to move overseas. I know more about retirement and old age than I should :shocked:

When it comes to getting SS or disability Do Not Wait as it can take Ages for everything to get sorted. When ill health comes and the two of you have medicare you can get with the state or an agency for an home health care aid to help out a couple of hours a day around the house. For health scares and episodes good luck as I've had my share with my grandmother over the years.


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## Llyralen (Sep 4, 2017)

So people at work... they get their millions so easily. One guy was born with all these trust funds... they hate me because I’m “new money.” Also I don’t think they like my hair... 

If I have social anxiety and awkwardness can I be in with the special group that gets to judge everyone else? What if I have a wine stain across my face? Nobody will date me! I took a test that said I’m HSP so do I get to feel hated for that? What about if I’m from the slums totally worked myself hard without a role model and got scholarships at school but get into a boating accident and had a brain injury that has been hard to recover from? Do I get to hate people? What if I’m an orphan and was in foster homes from age 8 on? Is everyone a worse person yet? What about a debilitating disease? Everyone in this world is so F’ed up and they all hate me. What about if my child commits suicide? Am I special yet? Can I say nobody understand me yet? 

We all get a hand delt to us to play. Bitching about the cards doesn’t help. 

Please tell me that Someone understands my point...


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## Fennel (Jan 11, 2017)

.


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## Llyralen (Sep 4, 2017)

@Sei35. We are going to have to agree to disagree. You are also invalidating my feelings too, do you see that? Do you think you have a right to invalidate because you slapped a “Normie” label on me? I can be mad as heck that robots aren’t doing all the work in this world for us yet— I don’t think that’s healthy though I can also imagine it would be better to go back to tribal living— seems healthy (also something I think about a lot)— but at the end of the day I need to feed my children and have a roof over our heads. and I am absolutely grateful I’ve got a way to do that. I see people on the street and I KNOW people on the street and work with them.. I know I’m 2 months of pay away from homeless. I lost my job once and it was terrifying for me and my family. Almost everything flew apart and I’ve seen other people go homeless which just in this last year we are not homeless only for the Grace of God. But instead I see all this as a profound blessing. Nobody had to reach to help me. None of us deserve anything— we are poor onery stupid hateful people who screw each other over— none of us deserve anything! But somehow we are also wonderful loving kind compassionate intelligences capable of understanding and giving to each other and we are allowed to be able to feel grateful for what we have. 

Gratitude turns whatever I have into “enough”. And if gratitude makes me normie, I will wear that label now. Slap it on my forehead, Sei.


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## Mick Travis (Aug 18, 2016)

Alesha said:


> Gratitude turns whatever I have into “enough”.


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## Llyralen (Sep 4, 2017)

@Sei35 By way of public apologies and my worry that you will think I don’t care...I will say this line of thinking is just tough for me. I see individuals. I don’t see masses or identify with labels. I understand in an individualistic way most social information— for instance, I will feel that African americans in the US face lots of discrimination. But I don’t feel like that they would call themselves abnormal and I feel like it’s to everyone’s benefit to learn to do their best with their life and others. 
So also I will say, yes, certain things going on in this world are horrible. Things that I want to know about so that I feel the weight of personal responsibility and live with that. For instance, I used to be vegan because of how I felt about individual animals’ lives in mass meat production. There are things going on like that cat food is the biggest product of slavery in Korea— destroying millions of lives and our oceans. The War in the Congo in 2012 was caused by our desire for cell phone batteries— mass rape as well as the fighting was huge in that war. I know this world is not all roses. I know people human trafficked from your own country and I see what their lives are like here. I’m not naive— but I don’t feel like the responsibility for all this is not on my shoulders. I want individual lives to be better not worse and I fight these things, while still having a cat and a cell phone and eating meat— but I help people where I can by trying to understand and have compassion for their circumstances. 
I keep picturing Xavier and Magneto from the x-men playing chess and we can do better than that. Lol. I love you, sweetheart. Together trying to work towards understanding we can hopefully make a difference for our lives and for others. I think I can only tolerate knowing all of it because I only think in individual terms so I can feel like I am on the side of individuals and therefore everyone and I don’t feel like I am a part of any social groups at all except that of earthling. I hope you accept this humble apology. I will need to grow some more Ni-Fe brain cells to understand things more collectively —but I will try.


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## Llyralen (Sep 4, 2017)

@HumanBeing. We need you. What do you think of all this? ^ @Northern Lights, your opinion? @ai.tran.75. It’s okay if you guys don’t have an opinion either, though. But I love your good judgement. Thank you.


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## Mick Travis (Aug 18, 2016)

Alesha said:


> I’m not naive— but I don’t feel like the responsibility for all this is not on my shoulders. I want individual lives to be better not worse and I fight these things, while still having a cat and a cell phone and eating meat— but I help people where I can by trying to understand and have compassion for their circumstances


While we're building utopia, we'll still need to rescue people from some pesky cycle of abuse.


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## HumanBeing (May 28, 2014)

This topic is very complex. But the way I see it, your basic needs (like food, shelter, etc) need to be met before you can spend energy on more complex problems. 

Once you're there, and maybe a bit more, you can get out of survival mode. Once you're out of survival mode, depending on the state of your ego as well, you can get totally sidetracked in all sorts of things that don't do anything for quality of life. Excessive consumerism, hurting people, buying into all sort brands/images/beliefs that don't amount to anything in the end.

All of this of-course does depend on circumstances and your abilities/choices to secure a stable enough life to get out of survival mode. And living on the last bit of money every month pretty much equates to survival mode in my eyes. Having choices and some financial mobility is never a bad thing in my eyes.

Realism and idealism ultimately can go hand in hand, but it's hard to define what kind of impact to have. Not beating yourself up in the process of getting there seems important. Personally it could take me another 5 years to really figure out for myself what my life's mission, and that's fairly optimistic. In the meantime, disconnecting myself from society would give me less chance for positive impact, even it is only local.

Given the choice to empower myself, or dis-empower myself, I will choose the former every time, even if I doubt who I am sometimes. The people who will ultimately change things are unlikely to be the people who disengaged from society. It's not without reason that vertical development is usually framed as transcend and include, on the path to becoming a whole human being the ability to think in business terms for example isn't lost, rather the context in which you apply these things change.

Even 2500 years ago the Buddha supposedly told a rich guy that being wealthy is not a problem, but what you do with that wealth can be. Personally I see life as a challenge where incrementally I find better ways to spend my energy, even if life sometimes feels like a chain of mistakes, being wrong or unsure.

I hope this ramble makes some sense.


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## SirCanSir (Mar 21, 2018)

Mick Travis said:


> While we're building utopia, we'll still need to rescue people from some pesky cycle of abuse.


I doubt an utopia can be built having a normal mindset. Isnt normal what society approves? Building a utopia by society's standards just means that we are all absorbed happily in society's ways.
We all are normal (atleast most of us), that doesnt mean that we should accept it. Living a normal life where you strive for chances to be something more is what makes a fullfilling life.

If we accept how things are and embrace routine not allowing ourselves to dream, what do we get? Only depression. Its a funny thing, i used to mock that subject, but there was one teacher in uni who made a research regarding how a person's lifespan depends on his creativity. He said that when an individual's productivity ends, his time to die comes close. 
I found it funny back then but i can see some more serious possibilities right now. 
Life is like a movie. Why would you watch it if you already know what happens?


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## Llyralen (Sep 4, 2017)

SirCanSir said:


> I doubt an utopia can be built having a normal mindset. Isnt normal what society approves? Building a utopia by society's standards just means that we are all absorbed happily in society's ways.
> We all are normal (atleast most of us), that doesnt mean that we should accept it. Living a normal life where you strive for chances to be something more is what makes a fullfilling life.
> 
> If we accept how things are and embrace routine not allowing ourselves to dream, what do we get? Only depression. Its a funny thing, i used to mock that subject, but there was one teacher in uni who made a research regarding how a person's lifespan depends on his creativity. He said that when an individual's productivity ends, his time to die comes close.
> ...


It's that definition of "normal" again. I think babies are the most human and most normal... whatever they do that is innate and isn't learned. 
Interesting about that point about creativity.
I think just getting rid of greed.... many societies have gotten rid of it. I think it is what will get us in the end. Or Tolkien says "Men who want power above all else." Whatever, but we are exploiting instead of living in harmony with our earth, is my thought. 
Dang, I need a break from PerC. You guys will all be in Alesha-overload. /wave


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## Anunnaki Spirit (Mar 23, 2018)

SirCanSir said:


> Damn how are Americans entertained by this crap ^^...


Even though I am an American (cringe) I still struggle to see myself how people like this crap while I do understand some of it the rest is obvious that it mirrors what is really normal in modern society.


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## SirCanSir (Mar 21, 2018)

The Lonley Hobbit said:


> Even though I am an American (cringe) I still struggle to see myself how people like this crap while I do understand some of it the rest is obvious that it mirrors what is really normal in modern society.


High percentages of uneducated population sure works its miracles.


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## Mick Travis (Aug 18, 2016)

SirCanSir said:


> Well how you are perceived depends on your ability to sell yourself. In my opinion its good to keep being yourself and not be afraid to show it in a way that its fun or genuine. You dont need to be normal anyway, none cares for that, they only care to be accepted, but being normal just makes that easier. Thus Acceptance gets confused with Normality.
> 
> And you can do it if you believe in yourself no matter who you are, because being genuine and not afraid to show your differences draws people to your side. Because its something people admire since it takes some balls to do it.
> That road to acceptance is way more fun than being normal.


I don't see how people could be genuine *and* sell themselves.


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## Mick Travis (Aug 18, 2016)

The Lonley Hobbit said:


> it mirrors what is really normal in modern society.


I don't see those guests in real life. This kind of entertainment is schadenfreude.


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## SirCanSir (Mar 21, 2018)

Mick Travis said:


> I don't see how people could be genuine *and* sell themselves.


No please dont mess with my words again.
Here "sell"
Better?


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## Mick Travis (Aug 18, 2016)

SirCanSir said:


> No please dont mess with my words again.


I'm pointing them out to you.


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## Fennel (Jan 11, 2017)

Mick Travis said:


> I don't see how people could be genuine *and* sell themselves.





SirCanSir said:


> No please dont mess with my words again.
> Here "sell"
> Better?


Was thinking the same thing. How can persons sell themselves and still be genuine? I thought those two were exclusive, unless they actually see themselves as commodities.


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## SirCanSir (Mar 21, 2018)

Sei35 said:


> Was thinking the same thing. How can persons sell themselves and still be genuine? I thought those two were exclusive, unless they actually see themselves as commodities.


Ok too much marketing in that approach. By selling themselves i meant to be able to present themselves in the best way possbile. 
If you want to sell something its not necessary to lie about its qualities, you just need to present its strengths in the best way based on the buyer's needs. 
What i was trying to say was to present your not normal self in a way that you are accepted, because that makes them understand better that they need you in their life. 
You dont lie but you clear your doubts and strengthen your personality's strengths.


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## Anunnaki Spirit (Mar 23, 2018)

I am tired of Babylon trying to carry on from one day to the next without any end in sight.


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## Mick Travis (Aug 18, 2016)

The Lonley Hobbit said:


> I am tired of Babylon trying to carry on from one day to the next without any end in sight.


Those who benefit from our slavery hope we get tired and stop resisting.


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## Crystal Winter Dream (May 27, 2018)

Normalcy would feel nice honestly... XD


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## Fennel (Jan 11, 2017)

It's not worth it. I don't belong in this world and I can't stand myself anymore. I wish I would just die quickly. I think it's about time I seriously consider making steps toward that goal, getting my affairs in order and whatnot.


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## Mick Travis (Aug 18, 2016)

Sei35 said:


> It's not worth it. I don't belong in this world and I can't stand myself anymore.


We're here for you.


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## SirCanSir (Mar 21, 2018)

Sei35 said:


> It's not worth it. I don't belong in this world and I can't stand myself anymore. I wish I would just die quickly. I think it's about time I seriously consider making steps toward that goal, getting my affairs in order and whatnot.


I hope you don't mean that you need to consider the steps towards dying quickly.

Work towards a life goal that fills you with energy.

Make people like us who are also trying to escape normalcy proud by standing up for your goals and pissing everything that's limiting you. 

-------- Currently advertising that App  -------


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## Fennel (Jan 11, 2017)

Mick Travis said:


> We're here for you.





SirCanSir said:


> I hope you don't mean that you need to consider the steps towards dying quickly.
> 
> Work towards a life goal that fills you with energy.
> 
> ...


Yeah, yeah... I don't belong with you guys either, sorry...


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## SirCanSir (Mar 21, 2018)

Sei35 said:


> Yeah, yeah... I don't belong with you guys either, sorry...




-------- Currently advertising that App  -------


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## Mick Travis (Aug 18, 2016)

Sei35 said:


> Yeah, yeah... I don't belong with you guys either, sorry...


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## Elvish Lives (Nov 29, 2013)

I don't see this as succumbing to the vortex of normality as much as I see it as a means of subsidizing crazy. Crazy is a revenue-hungry monster. Crazy will have you $5000 in the hole at an Indian casino before the Beam even kicks in. Crazy will have you calling in sick all week on a binge-watching bender. But crazy isn't self-sustaining. Crazy can't feed itself or clean the burrito grease off of its shirt. So crazy needs a partner, a stable other who can go to work and bring home the proverbial pork belly. Crazy, meet normal. Normal, Crazy. And by the power vested in INFJ, I now pronounce you partners in life. Go and be well.


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## Charly The Rabbit (Dec 5, 2016)

Sei35 said:


> It's not worth it. I don't belong in this world and I can't stand myself anymore. I wish I would just die quickly. I think it's about time I seriously consider making steps toward that goal, getting my affairs in order and
> 
> I understand, I felt the same some years ago, the reality can sometimes be a nightmare but consider this:" what if you are wrong" I mean that you belong to this world, that your life worth. Have you consider the possibility that your vision might be wrong?. Reality is that, you have to learn to accept it as is. The first step is acceptance that reality is what it is. When you accept this fact you will feel a lot of relief. The second step is exploration, come on! The world is too big to say I dont belong here. Have you walk across the whole planet to say that?. When I say exploration I dont mecessary mean travelling( although this is also good) I mean explore the possibilities: meet new people, join a hobby club, try new foods, be a volunteer in a NGO, anything that bring you new experiences will be useful to have a better real understand of the world, only from this point you will be capable to guide yourself and find something worthy. This can take time but if better than to stay static under depression. And please dont get me wrong, I truly understand you I was under depression for 3 years but I could exit from that hole. Ive learnt to accept the world as is, and right now Im in the journey of discovering my path. If I could you also can do it
> 
> ...


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## Fennel (Jan 11, 2017)

Charly The Rabbit said:


> I understand, I felt the same some years ago, the reality can sometimes be a nightmare but consider this:" what if you are wrong" I mean that you belong to this world, that your life worth. Have you consider the possibility that your vision might be wrong?. Reality is that, you have to learn to accept it as is. The first step is acceptance that reality is what it is. When you accept this fact you will feel a lot of relief. The second step is exploration, come on! The world is too big to say I dont belong here. Have you walk across the whole planet to say that?. When I say exploration I dont mecessary mean travelling( although this is also good) I mean explore the possibilities: meet new people, join a hobby club, try new foods, be a volunteer in a NGO, anything that bring you new experiences will be useful to have a better real understand of the world, only from this point you will be capable to guide yourself and find something worthy. This can take time but if better than to stay static under depression. And please dont get me wrong, I truly understand you I was under depression for 3 years but I could exit from that hole. Ive learnt to accept the world as is, and right now Im in the journey of discovering my path. If I could you also can do it
> 
> I truly wish you can find your path and discover yourself and shine, this world need us in "shinning mode ON"


Thanks... I know you mean well but maybe you don't understand why I'm so troubled about this. It is an all-or-nothing thing. 

Being normal is a full-time job, I don't have the time to actually explore, so hobbies or volunteering are out. Most people are in the same boat; this is a middle-class problem. If one is very rich, he could afford to work part time and do whatever he wants in his off days. I'm talking about having no time and energy at all to be myself. Plus I live in a very extroverted country where simply needing some time alone is so weird, it calls for professional help.

It's about survival. I have to be normal just to survive. I have no choice but to do as the Romans do or die. I thought I could get used to it but lately even my body is rejecting this kind of life. Shutting down and being impossibly useless when bombarded by mundane tasks and extroverting. Either way, I am going to die it seems. Spiritually or physically I'm doomed.

I might belong somewhere but definitely not this family, this job, this city, this country. Definitely not the culture I grew up in. In some places, maybe my level of introversion would be considered normal. Or my need for few but very deep friendships would be appreciated. But there's none of that around here.

I could quit my job to get a little freedom, but I don't have the kind of money to run away or get my own place. I'd just be dragged back home and forced to do the same old, same old...


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## leictreon (Jan 4, 2016)

I'd have to unironically enjoy dame tu cosita so no thanks


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## VinnieBob (Mar 24, 2014)

odinthor said:


> It's more than OK: It's wonderful! Enjoy it to the hilt!
> 
> It's not the death of an NF soul: It's a transcendence of that soul to a new, and higher, and placid, realm of understanding . . .


I will now translate this from NF to NT
[clears throat]it's not the end of the subject-object reality as the-thing-in-itself it is the metaphysical experience of that thing-in-itself to a new higher [above the clouds] and placid [riding a rain bow colored unicorn] realm of understanding [the rain bow heaven where the NF's esse originated]h:


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## Anunnaki Spirit (Mar 23, 2018)

Sei35 said:


> Thanks... I know you mean well but maybe you don't understand why I'm so troubled about this. It is an all-or-nothing thing.
> 
> Being normal is a full-time job, I don't have the time to actually explore, so hobbies or volunteering are out. Most people are in the same boat; this is a middle-class problem. If one is very rich, he could afford to work part time and do whatever he wants in his off days. I'm talking about having no time and energy at all to be myself. Plus I live in a very extroverted country where simply needing some time alone is so weird, it calls for professional help.
> 
> ...


This is why I had to quit my job with only enough money to get by for a month or so just to get a break, it sucks but there isn't much that can be done and no it is not just a middle class problem as lot of people eventually end up either being disabled or on the streets. Do you have anything in particular in mind as to where like what country you want to start over on a clean slate?


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## Fennel (Jan 11, 2017)

The Lonley Hobbit said:


> This is why I had to quit my job with only enough money to get by for a month or so just to get a break, it sucks but there isn't much that can be done and no it is not just a middle class problem as lot of people eventually end up either being disabled or on the streets. Do you have anything in particular in mind as to where like what country you want to start over on a clean slate?


Somewhere in the Eurozone or Canada where it's more introvert-friendly and they are more knowledgeable about mental health. Would love to go to Germany but I hear it's very difficult to get a job there.

In our country people don't usually go on the streets unless they've really given up. Or they're disabled, as it's hard to take care of yourself when disabled because there aren't much community facilities for that. A family could have a furnished house and even some luxuries but still be too poor to afford decent meals or education. That's normally that happens, people get stuck in the rat race, just over broke, and have to be satisfied with a few splurges instead of overall healthy living.

I know some people would go into debt and venture something... but borrowing money and time from others isn't in my vocabulary. Maybe I should look into it, even though I can't guarantee anything. Taking someone else's resources for a while seems like a crime but desperate times, desperate measures...


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## Anunnaki Spirit (Mar 23, 2018)

Sei35 said:


> Somewhere in the Eurozone or Canada where it's more introvert-friendly and they are more knowledgeable about mental health. Would love to go to Germany but I hear it's very difficult to get a job there.
> 
> In our country people don't usually go on the streets unless they've really given up. Or they're disabled, as it's hard to take care of yourself when disabled because there aren't much community facilities for that. A family could have a furnished house and even some luxuries but still be too poor to afford decent meals or education. That's normally that happens, people get stuck in the rat race, just over broke, and have to be satisfied with a few splurges instead of overall healthy living.
> 
> I know some people would go into debt and venture something... but borrowing money and time from others isn't in my vocabulary. Maybe I should look into it, even though I can't guarantee anything. Taking someone else's resources for a while seems like a crime but desperate times, desperate measures...


Some parts of Canada are great and that is my option of last resort should I not be able to go to where I really want to go but be warned the big cities there are not all peaches and cream so to say. If you like the out doors in decent climate that isn't a mosquito infested blast furnace that winters for six months of the year you could have a great time in solitude. Europe is a mess that I think twice before moving there though I should visit it at least once someday. America is a real mess should you get the chance to come here and spend enough time to realize it is not the same country that it once was decades ago.


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## Fennel (Jan 11, 2017)

The Lonley Hobbit said:


> Some parts of Canada are great and that is my option of last resort should I not be able to go to where I really want to go but be warned the big cities there are not all peaches and cream so to say. If you like the out doors in decent climate that isn't a mosquito infested blast furnace that winters for six months of the year you could have a great time in solitude. Europe is a mess that I think twice before moving there though I should visit it at least once someday. America is a real mess should you get the chance to come here and spend enough time to realize it is not the same country that it once was decades ago.


Definitely not America, the culture there is in many ways similar and worse than ours. I wouldn't be too worried about the climate. It's how to get meaningful work and get along with others that I am concerned with. But basically anything very different and less stressful from where I've been would help me a lot, imo.


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## Anunnaki Spirit (Mar 23, 2018)

Sei35 said:


> Definitely not America, the culture there is in many ways similar and worse than ours. I wouldn't be too worried about the climate. It's how to get meaningful work and get along with others that I am concerned with. But basically anything very different and less stressful from where I've been would help me a lot, imo.


Do you like living in the country or perhaps small towns? I did my little share of big city living and never going back, are you an artist in some way or another even though you don't get to explore?


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## valosagutas (Nov 5, 2017)

Sei35 said:


> no time and energy at all to be myself


Actually, you don't need time and energy to be yourself. No matter what, you are being yourself.

What you meant is actually doing what you want. You can't do all you want. You shouldn't do what you want. You should do what you should do.



Sei35 said:


> simply needing some time alone


Have you thought actually you don't need some time alone? But you want it. What is your reason?



Sei35 said:


> I thought I could get used to it but lately even my body is rejecting this kind of life. Shutting down and being impossibly useless when bombarded by mundane tasks and extroverting. Either way, I am going to die it seems. Spiritually or physically I'm doomed.


When some beings experience stress they make a choice (fight-or-flight response): flight or fight. You choose flight because you believe you can't fight. Why don't you fight it? Just because you perceive it as threat doesn't make it a threat. Don't create your own doom.



Sei35 said:


> I might belong somewhere but definitely not this family, this job, this city, this country.


You will belong if you choose it.



Sei35 said:


> Or my need for few but very deep friendships would be appreciated. But there's none of that around here.


Have you thought actually you don't need someone? You won't need if you don't want it.


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## Fennel (Jan 11, 2017)

shadowbroker said:


> Have you thought actually you don't need some time alone? But you want it. What is your reason?
> 
> Have you thought actually you don't need someone? You won't need if you don't want it.


The definition of "introvert". Look it up if you must.

I know that "need" and "want" mean very different things. It seems you are speaking an entirely different language.


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## valosagutas (Nov 5, 2017)

Sei35 said:


> The definition of "introvert". Look it up if you must.


I did. The "definition" is "someone who hates people and secretly wants to kill them". OMG! Someone should kill you.

I wanted to know your "definition", smart-arse. Because brain creates it's own reality. If you believe something is true then it will be.

Some people believe they are smart like you, they are actually asshole with low intelligence. That's a good example for you to understand how your belief shapes your reality. Do you even know placebo effect? Look it up if you must.



Sei35 said:


> I know that "need" and "want" mean very different things. It seems you are speaking an entirely different language.


I didn't say you don't. Look at the definition of ego. Look it up if you must. You have one giant ego. No one likes someone like that.


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## Fennel (Jan 11, 2017)

shadowbroker said:


> I did. The "definition" is "someone who hates people and secretly wants to kill them". OMG! Someone should kill you.
> 
> I wanted to know your "definition", smart-arse. Because brain creates it's own reality. If you believe something is true then it will be.
> 
> ...


There you go. That's how I felt about your post, smartass.


* *




No, you didn't want to know about anything. Your replies reek of thinly veiled insults. I hate condescension. Being witty does not excuse being mean. If I were a bit more sensitive I would have offed myself over someone like you. 

You're a good example of a what I hate about this world.


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## valosagutas (Nov 5, 2017)

Sei35 said:


> No, you didn't want to know about anything.


Don't assume. If I didn't I wouldn't bother you.



Sei35 said:


> Your replies reek of thinly veiled insults.


I didn't meant to offend you. I wanted you to realize who you are, that was the only way.



Sei35 said:


> I hate condescension.


What an irony. You could just answer my question. Instead, you choose to be mean and avoid my question. It seemed you thought I'm one of the idiots who try to reach you and waste your time and energy. Like I don't have the necessary intelligence or something to worth your time and energy.

What seems to me that you don't want help, you just trying to validate your thought. Condescends people who try to reach you just because you don't agree.



Sei35 said:


> You're a good example of a what I hate about this world.


What? You hate the world because they don't act like you are a princess? What you plant now, you will harvest later. Don't forget that.

I wasn't looking for a fight. I did waste my time and energy just because I cared about you. If you won't answer my question then don't reply. Spare me the primitive act.


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## Fennel (Jan 11, 2017)

@shadowbroker I misunderstood you the first time and I am sorry about that. But even if I didn't suspect you, I couldn't give a straight answer to your question. Such answers are only for people I trust.


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## valosagutas (Nov 5, 2017)

I'm sorry about the misunderstanding because it was my fault to not be clear about it. If it wasn't my fault you wouldn't. No hard feelings, okay? ^_^


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## CrystallineSheep (Jul 8, 2012)

Losing interest and pleasure in things you use to have interest and pleasure in is a sign of depression. Are you depressed?


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## Anunnaki Spirit (Mar 23, 2018)

CrystallineSheep said:


> Losing interest and pleasure in things you use to have interest and pleasure in is a sign of depression. Are you depressed?


I don't think that you understand at all what depression is like as this thread is obvious to anyone who has as a cry for help.


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## CrystallineSheep (Jul 8, 2012)

The Lonley Hobbit said:


> I don't think that you understand at all what depression is like as this thread is obvious to anyone who has as a cry for help.


I literally have Bipolar you knob.


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## Fennel (Jan 11, 2017)

The Lonley Hobbit said:


> I don't think that you understand at all what depression is like as this thread is obvious to anyone who has as a cry for help.


It wasn't obvious to me. Thanks, I guess. 
Glad to know I have depression...?


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## PerfectlyImperfect (Jul 22, 2018)

Grandmaster Yoda said:


> Normals are the happiest people. It cannot be explained.


Yeah, this is why I envy them so.


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## PerfectlyImperfect (Jul 22, 2018)

HumanBeing said:


> This topic is very complex. But the way I see it, your basic needs (like food, shelter, etc) need to be met before you can spend energy on more complex problems.
> 
> Once you're there, and maybe a bit more, you can get out of survival mode. Once you're out of survival mode, depending on the state of your ego as well, you can get totally sidetracked in all sorts of things that don't do anything for quality of life. Excessive consumerism, hurting people, buying into all sort brands/images/beliefs that don't amount to anything in the end.
> 
> ...


It makes perfect sense.


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## PerfectlyImperfect (Jul 22, 2018)

Crystal Winter Dream said:


> Normalcy would feel nice honestly... XD


Yeah I know right??


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## PerfectlyImperfect (Jul 22, 2018)

Elvish Lives said:


> I don't see this as succumbing to the vortex of normality as much as I see it as a means of subsidizing crazy. Crazy is a revenue-hungry monster. Crazy will have you $5000 in the hole at an Indian casino before the Beam even kicks in. Crazy will have you calling in sick all week on a binge-watching bender. But crazy isn't self-sustaining. Crazy can't feed itself or clean the burrito grease off of its shirt. So crazy needs a partner, a stable other who can go to work and bring home the proverbial pork belly. Crazy, meet normal. Normal, Crazy. And by the power vested in INFJ, I now pronounce you partners in life. Go and be well.


Heal.. Heal... HEALLLLLL


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## PerfectlyImperfect (Jul 22, 2018)

Sei35 said:


> Recently I woke up and realized that I'm a normie. *shudders*
> 
> Not that I'm complaining. I wished to be a normal person for my entire adult life, and now I'm it. Working an normal job, going to school, worrying about money and where I'll get my next meal. You know, ordinary things... I don't think I should be called INFJ or INFx anymore. Maybe I used to be, but I'm not a unicorn now.
> 
> ...


I can understand the discontentment that realizing you're not living the life the high-school you originally envisioned brings. I can even understand your referral to the "normie" life; while being very subjective, to say that every society doesn't have a preexisting notion of norms is poppycock, even if reality is 99% of that society is living a lie to adhere to that "normal" image. But that's the thing, I think every personality/temperament type has their own "abnormal" quirks and reality is also the fact that maybe just as many are actually living at complete opposite end where they really desire to be out of this need for societal normalcy that is placed on 100% of world citizens.
These statements i'm making aren't to discredit you, your originality, or your needs/desires. It's to put into perspective that EVERYONE truly is a unique individual that at some point or another has to begin the great and soul-killing art of compromise. I understand that the idea of "compromising" one's identity is =/= to death for many, but unfortunately for the greater good of mankind and those that we love (if we love anybody), we're gonna have to start letting parts of ourselves go to transform into REAL-LIFE visionaries, mentors, protectors, so on and so mbti temperment enneagram type forth, that can help people and provide them insight EVERY DAY of our lives rather than just the few completely soul-transforming experiences and opportunities that we may or may not get. People (the world, society, normies, non-normies) will benefit so much more from you and your gifts if you stay strong and prove that non-normies and their feelings hold an important place in society as well.

I can't post this without saying I'm sorry if you take this a completely different way than it is intended! I'm trying to convince you that cultivating your inner-quirks into your everyday life has so many more benefits for you and everyone else than does you ostracizing yourself from society.


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## Elvish Lives (Nov 29, 2013)

PerfectlyImperfect said:


> Heal.. Heal... HEALLLLLL


What?


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## Anunnaki Spirit (Mar 23, 2018)

PerfectlyImperfect said:


> I can understand the discontentment that realizing you're not living the life the high-school you originally envisioned brings. I can even understand your referral to the "normie" life; while being very subjective, to say that every society doesn't have a preexisting notion of norms is poppycock, even if reality is 99% of that society is living a lie to adhere to that "normal" image. But that's the thing, I think every personality/temperament type has their own "abnormal" quirks and reality is also the fact that maybe just as many are actually living at complete opposite end where they really desire to be out of this need for societal normalcy that is placed on 100% of world citizens.
> These statements i'm making aren't to discredit you, your originality, or your needs/desires. It's to put into perspective that EVERYONE truly is a unique individual that at some point or another has to begin the great and soul-killing art of compromise. I understand that the idea of "compromising" one's identity is =/= to death for many, but unfortunately for the greater good of mankind and those that we love (if we love anybody), we're gonna have to start letting parts of ourselves go to transform into REAL-LIFE visionaries, mentors, protectors, so on and so mbti temperment enneagram type forth, that can help people and provide them insight EVERY DAY of our lives rather than just the few completely soul-transforming experiences and opportunities that we may or may not get. People (the world, society, normies, non-normies) will benefit so much more from you and your gifts if you stay strong and prove that non-normies and their feelings hold an important place in society as well.
> 
> I can't post this without saying I'm sorry if you take this a completely different way than it is intended! I'm trying to convince you that cultivating your inner-quirks into your everyday life has so many more benefits for you and everyone else than does you ostracizing yourself from society.


Conformity is really just emotional or spiritual death by society, sure most can in some way or another fit in however for some that is not possible as they were never made for that in the first place being they were design for some other function outside of society. The really sad part is that such people are poorly understood if at all and often neglected without love or care being left to linger on in pain then there is the abuse they experience though out life.


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## Kizuna (Jul 30, 2011)

The Lonley Hobbit said:


> Conformity is really just emotional or spiritual death by society, sure most can in some way or another fit in however for some that is not possible as they were never made for that in the first place being they were design for some other function *outside of society*. The really sad part is that such people are poorly understood if at all and often neglected without love or care being left to linger on in pain then there is the abuse they experience though out life.


I agree except for the bolded part-- I think we are an integral part of society (normally!!! ideally! originally). We need it and it needs us. But somehow many of us (INFJs) always seem to manage to become the outcasts, the undervalued, the misunderstood, the branded--and that for standing up for Truth when no one else is willing to do it.

I still wouldn't want to be "normal" though. (I think OP might be more of an INFP but it's just an impression anyway.)


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## Anunnaki Spirit (Mar 23, 2018)

Kizuna said:


> I agree except for the bolded part-- I think we are an integral part of society (normally!!! ideally! originally). We need it and it needs us. But somehow many of us (INFJs) always seem to manage to become the outcasts, the undervalued, the misunderstood, the branded--and that for standing up for Truth when no one else is willing to do it.
> 
> I still wouldn't want to be "normal" though. (I think OP might be more of an INFP but it's just an impression anyway.)


I want to you think of those sages through out history who would spend upwards of many years outside of society only to return later with something of value to offer. Even some of the mainline religions the world over was started this way.


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## Kizuna (Jul 30, 2011)

The Lonley Hobbit said:


> I want to you think of those sages through out history who would spend upwards of many years outside of society only to return later with something of value to offer. Even some of the mainline religions the world over was started this way.


Ah, you mean temporary retreats, and then coming back with the newfound wisdom to make it known to the tribe? That's pretty much what strong Ni does, yes.

I had understood "definitively quitting society" and telling it farewell. If you're talking about going back and forth, yes you're right))))


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## Anunnaki Spirit (Mar 23, 2018)

Kizuna said:


> Ah, you mean temporary retreats, and then coming back with the newfound wisdom to make it known to the tribe? That's pretty much what strong Ni does, yes.
> 
> I had understood "definitively quitting society" and telling it farewell. If you're talking about going back and forth, yes you're right))))


Just remember some of those retreats can last for several decades in some rare cases but what they bring back can be absolutely incredible. For me I really need this not only just to sort things out but also go after some very esoteric things that is almost never offered to people these days. There is also the energy aspect of this as well so I need to get away where I am not affected by the energy of other people allowing me to focus on the spiritual more. When all the normies are all at rest sleeping I am so much more awake than I am during the day, 12-3 am usually and my mind is so much better during those hours.


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## valosagutas (Nov 5, 2017)

The Lonley Hobbit said:


> I want to you think of those sages through out history who would spend upwards of many years outside of society only to return later with something of value to offer. Even some of the mainline religions the world over was started this way.


Why they return exactly?: What is the fundemental reason? Why they even care?


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## Anunnaki Spirit (Mar 23, 2018)

shadowbroker said:


> Why they return exactly?: What is the fundemental reason? Why they even care?


Just hard wired in.


----------



## PerfectlyImperfect (Jul 22, 2018)

Elvish Lives said:


> What?


I don’t know, for some reason your post reminded me of a preacher blessing somebody


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## Elvish Lives (Nov 29, 2013)

PerfectlyImperfect said:


> I don’t know, for some reason your post reminded me of a preacher blessing somebody


Why the "heal," then? I thought you were healing me like an untrained dog.


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## PerfectlyImperfect (Jul 22, 2018)

The Lonley Hobbit said:


> Conformity is really just emotional or spiritual death by society, sure most can in some way or another fit in however for some that is not possible as they were never made for that in the first place being they were design for some other function outside of society. The really sad part is that such people are poorly understood if at all and often neglected without love or care being left to linger on in pain then there is the abuse they experience though out life.


I can agree with you to an extent here. As far as knowing there are people in society who truly feel like they don’t belong for whatever reason. The part I do not agree with however is saying that conformity IS emotional and spiritual death. As someone who has literally been trapped as a prisoner in my brain for most of my life and felt like I didn’t fit in with society because I was INCAPABLE of being the same as others, even a little bit of conformity is more than a breath of fresh air; it actually provides me with life. When I was younger, being a complete and total individual was my creed because I felt being any other way was impossible; looking back however I realize that was from a place of Impossibility. I can’t explain how badly I freaking craved even feeling a little similar to someone else, ANYONE else. These days now that I’m living what I once envisioned as an impossible dream (working a normal job, providing for myself and my daughter all by myself), basically having SOMETHING that could help me relate to other people has literally no exaggeration been a blessing. I do agree that undeserving people (not just INFJs) become marginalized, but there are also just as many that are sociopaths. Anyhoot, I do agree that many have benefited from retreats or whatnot, but I feel it’s a crime against humanity for a true INFJ to be kept from the world. I understand that there are people who have gone into “retreat” for long periods of time and have come back to society with great gifts, but perhaps it’s the subconscious judger in me who would rather not chance emaprting a gift I feel only me and a few others in this world possess by becoming a temporary/permanent recluse. Lest not forgot that yes we are introverts to the max, we also need people just as much as they need us if not more. Please don’t take this as anything other than an INFJ giving their perspective on what life has been like for some of us (or maybe even just me??). We all need our alone time, particular introverts, so I can also really understand the want to disappear from earth for a while, but I guess I’ve just felt loneliness so deep in my core for so long that I’ve finally come to realize what the ACTUAL most realistic effects of reclusiveness are and it would be a great tragedy if I’d succumbed to those rather than getting past my self perpetuated BS


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## PerfectlyImperfect (Jul 22, 2018)

Elvish Lives said:


> Why the "heal," then? I thought you were healing me like an untrained dog.


Isn’t that what preachers say when they’re healing someone?? Lol and I would never refer to someone as an untrained dog. I’m sorry for the confusion


----------



## PerfectlyImperfect (Jul 22, 2018)

Kizuna said:


> I agree except for the bolded part-- I think we are an integral part of society (normally!!! ideally! originally). We need it and it needs us. But somehow many of us (INFJs) always seem to manage to become the outcasts, the undervalued, the misunderstood, the branded--and that for standing up for Truth when no one else is willing to do it.
> 
> I still wouldn't want to be "normal" though. (I think OP might be more of an INFP but it's just an impression anyway.)


I got that impression as well. Either way, I’d like for some to realize that conforming to society for some of us has been liberating


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## PerfectlyImperfect (Jul 22, 2018)

The Lonley Hobbit said:


> Just hard wired in.


It is hard-wired in, deeply and integrally


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## Anunnaki Spirit (Mar 23, 2018)

PerfectlyImperfect said:


> I can agree with you to an extent here. As far as knowing there are people in society who truly feel like they don’t belong for whatever reason. The part I do not agree with however is saying that conformity IS emotional and spiritual death. As someone who has literally been trapped as a prisoner in my brain for most of my life and felt like I didn’t fit in with society because I was INCAPABLE of being the same as others, even a little bit of conformity is more than a breath of fresh air; it actually provides me with life. When I was younger, being a complete and total individual was my creed because I felt being any other way was impossible; looking back however I realize that was from a place of Impossibility. I can’t explain how badly I freaking craved even feeling a little similar to someone else, ANYONE else. These days now that I’m living what I once envisioned as an impossible dream (working a normal job, providing for myself and my daughter all by myself), basically having SOMETHING that could help me relate to other people has literally no exaggeration been a blessing. I do agree that undeserving people (not just INFJs) become marginalized, but there are also just as many that are sociopaths. Anyhoot, I do agree that many have benefited from retreats or whatnot, but I feel it’s a crime against humanity for a true INFJ to be kept from the world. I understand that there are people who have gone into “retreat” for long periods of time and have come back to society with great gifts, but perhaps it’s the subconscious judger in me who would rather not chance emaprting a gift I feel only me and a few others in this world possess by becoming a temporary/permanent recluse. Lest not forgot that yes we are introverts to the max, we also need people just as much as they need us if not more. Please don’t take this as anything other than an INFJ giving their perspective on what life has been like for some of us (or maybe even just me??). We all need our alone time, particular introverts, so I can also really understand the want to disappear from earth for a while, but I guess I’ve just felt loneliness so deep in my core for so long that I’ve finally come to realize what the ACTUAL most realistic effects of reclusiveness are and it would be a great tragedy if I’d succumbed to those rather than getting past my self perpetuated BS


I need my alone time for self care and without it I get very dark towards others and in my moods in general. I won’t lie it has crossed my mind many times where I want to vanish from this world for good if there was a way without self destruction. As for craving some sort of connection with others well that is why I am here online, I feel so very foreign to others in what some people jokingly call meat space. All I really want is a peaceful life and to go at my own pace without being needlessly weighted down by the demands of others.


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## Elvish Lives (Nov 29, 2013)

PerfectlyImperfect said:


> Isn’t that what preachers say when they’re healing someone?? Lol and I would never refer to someone as an untrained dog. I’m sorry for the confusion


Hahaha well, I do have my out-of-control moments.


----------



## Fennel (Jan 11, 2017)

Kizuna said:


> I agree except for the bolded part-- I think we are an integral part of society (normally!!! ideally! originally). We need it and it needs us. But somehow many of us (INFJs) always seem to manage to become the outcasts, the undervalued, the misunderstood, the branded--and that for standing up for Truth when no one else is willing to do it.
> 
> I still wouldn't want to be "normal" though. (I think OP might be more of an INFP but it's just an impression anyway.)


It really doesn't matter what type I am, as I'm so thoroughly broken I might actually pull off the "normie" act and fool everybody. I just wish I could fool myself into thinking I'm making a difference. Or at least being kind to myself.

But it seems I'd already thrown out the baby with the bathwater, trying to lead a "clean" life and not hurt anyone else.


----------



## Fennel (Jan 11, 2017)

shadowbroker said:


> Why they return exactly?: What is the fundemental reason? Why they even care?


I believe that has a lot to do with timing. We never hear of those sages who failed to bring back wisdom, or if they did, weren't accepted or recorded by the society in their day.

People just care. It's part of being a human person, at least originally. Living in the "normal world" is what numbs people into non-caring. So what those wise men were actually doing in their retreats was feeding their caring side, until they cannot resist the urge to actually meet people again.


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## PerfectlyImperfect (Jul 22, 2018)

The Lonley Hobbit said:


> I need my alone time for self care and without it I get very dark towards others and in my moods in general. I won’t lie it has crossed my mind many times where I want to vanish from this world for good if there was a way without self destruction. As for craving some sort of connection with others well that is why I am here online, I feel so very foreign to others in what some people jokingly call meat space. All I really want is a peaceful life and to go at my own pace without being needlessly weighted down by the demands of others.


I can very much see where you're coming from. Although I have now proven to myself that I am capable of handling responsibility, it also is easily what I probably despise the most. Just because it so very easily becomes redundant, boring, and a lot of times anxiety-producing. However when I weigh out the pros and cons of handling responsibility vs fucking off everything and dropping from the face of the planet, handling responsibility always wins because of what I consider to be more important to myself these days (being even a little bit of a relatable member of society). Despite our different outlooks towards things, I ultimately hope that you, other posters, and everyone else in this world honestly, get to a point in your life where you ultimately are fulfilling your soul's ambitions without denying somebody else theirs. That's at least my goal in this life.


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## PerfectlyImperfect (Jul 22, 2018)

Elvish Lives said:


> Hahaha well, I do have my out-of-control moments.


:laughing: trust me, I would have commented on those in human terms!


----------



## PerfectlyImperfect (Jul 22, 2018)

Sei35 said:


> It really doesn't matter what type I am, as I'm so thoroughly broken I might actually pull off the "normie" act and fool everybody. I just wish I could fool myself into thinking I'm making a difference. Or at least being kind to myself.
> 
> But it seems I'd already thrown out the baby with the bathwater, trying to lead a "clean" life and not hurt anyone else.


Truthfully, reading how you feel about this whole ordeal or whatever we wanna call it makes me really sad for not only you, but other people that I know somewhere out there are feeling just like you are. May I ask what it is you would rather be doing (as far as humanity is concerned)?? If you'd rather not get into it I understand, I'm just asking to see whether there is a realistic plan of actions that can be taken (step-by-step) that can eventually get you to where you think you need to be to be happy with yourself. By the way, just in case I've given off any other type of impression, by no means are you "wrong" for having these feelings; they're legitimate and make sense. The only thing I might say you'd be "wrong" for is giving up without a fight in regards to figuring out what you feel your destiny is and making a real thought-out plan in getting there. I wish you the best, I know how self-deprecating and exhausting these kinds of situations can be


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## Anunnaki Spirit (Mar 23, 2018)

PerfectlyImperfect said:


> I can very much see where you're coming from. Although I have now proven to myself that I am capable of handling responsibility, it also is easily what I probably despise the most. Just because it so very easily becomes redundant, boring, and a lot of times anxiety-producing. However when I weigh out the pros and cons of handling responsibility vs fucking off everything and dropping from the face of the planet, handling responsibility always wins because of what I consider to be more important to myself these days (being even a little bit of a relatable member of society). Despite our different outlooks towards things, I ultimately hope that you, other posters, and everyone else in this world honestly, get to a point in your life where you ultimately are fulfilling your soul's ambitions without denying somebody else theirs. That's at least my goal in this life.


I am not going to bother being the martyr anymore and have already gone through more than what is normal for my age because of family and their problems. I am tired of dealing with other peoples problems and paying the price for their choices.


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## PerfectlyImperfect (Jul 22, 2018)

The Lonley Hobbit said:


> I am not going to bother being the martyr anymore and have already gone through more than what is normal for my age because of family and their problems. I am tired of dealing with other peoples problems and paying the price for their choices.


Completely understandable. I'm sorry you've gone through everything you have at such a young age. Taking advantage of and exploiting children is THE most detestable act. However, I do hope from your unfortunate situation you are able to provide others in similar situations to yours hope and resiliency tactics as well as just an empathetic ear and unending assurance.


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## Mick Travis (Aug 18, 2016)

The Lonley Hobbit said:


> I am tired of dealing with other peoples problems and paying the price for their choices.


I try to help the world and not become entangled in it.


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## Markolise (Nov 29, 2016)

I am justice! said:


> ...if you are not extremely mentally or physically ill or extremely gifted...


Don't these go hand in hand? With extreme gifts there are almost always seems to be a balance to it like mental issues or physical issues.


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## valosagutas (Nov 5, 2017)

Sei35 said:


> Living in the "normal world" is what numbs people into non-caring. So what those wise men were actually doing in their retreats was feeding their caring side, until they cannot resist the urge to actually meet people again.


I disagree. 

Living in the "normal world" makes you not forget that you can't do anything about society. You can't just stop all these BS by just caring. It's better not caring. Maybe that's why they retreated because they couldn't take it anymore.

Then why they returned? They probably come up with an idea that awakened their caring but they had hope because they forgot how was the "normal world", therefore, the idea they come up with was based on their hope and lack of information (which probably they forgot most of the necessary information enough to hope again).

And look at the "normal world" now: Watch all these BS. Witness the inevitable. Even though the answer is obvious, people just do what they want because they think they know the better. They weren't wise enough to be useful. In fact, they caused new problems (created religions to manipulate the society by using the Atlantis teaching). Instead of giving people the harsh truths, they make them believe the comfortable lies to use them which actually they gave what people wanted (what people think they need). Especially, the religion is a big problem of my country that halted any development. It didn't even have any remarkable effect on crime. They kill, rape, etc. then ask forgiveness from their imaginary being because their imaginary being is forgiving. They feel comfortable to think; even if they go to hell, somehow, after a while, it will be forgiven and they will be accepted to heaven. How can you make people care about the future of my country when they believe they will go to an imaginary place ("it will end at any moment so best wait in the "waiting room" and fool around")? (rhetorical question)

Actually, the real wise person(s) probably realized, even if you fix all the problems, it will turn back to its shitty state because humans have problems. It's hard-wired in them. It's better to accept the fact that you are a 0 in the equation (life), which the result is also 0 (everything will be destroyed), therefore, the equation doesn't matter and it's best to be your normal self without giving any single fuck about society (I didn't meant it as be selfish and go destroy society or something. just be yourself, do what is really best for you. for example, don't try to fit into a triangle hole if you are a square, you can't without break yourself which you shouldn't).

Therefore, if I can't or until I find the courage to suicide, what I want to do is going somewhere where I can be alone, built my own house and live there without needing anybody.


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## Anunnaki Spirit (Mar 23, 2018)

Markolise said:


> Don't these go hand in hand? With extreme gifts there are almost always seems to be a balance to it like mental issues or physical issues.


Normies often don't get that sometimes not even at all.


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## Kizuna (Jul 30, 2011)

Sei35 said:


> But it seems I'd already thrown out the baby with the bathwater, trying to lead a "clean" life and not hurt anyone else.


Ppphhhhhhh rubbish and nonsense!!!! As long as you are alive it's never too late. Believe in the Goodness of this world and appreciate what you DO have, even if it may appear little in comparison to many others. You may have been given things (not necessarily material things!) that I'd been craving since childhood, and vice versa. I don't even know you, but I refuse to give up on you just because I know humans have waaaaaaaay more potential that they themselves dare to assume. I have the right to believe you are perfectly capable of great deeds, ideas and feelings, no matter how "small" their visible scale. What YOU yourself believe is another question.


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## I am justice! (Feb 28, 2018)

Markolise said:


> Don't these go hand in hand? With extreme gifts there are almost always seems to be a balance to it like mental issues or physical issues.


it can be


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## Fennel (Jan 11, 2017)

shadowbroker said:


> I disagree.
> 
> Living in the "normal world" makes you not forget that you can't do anything about society. You can't just stop all these BS by just caring. It's better not caring. Maybe that's why they retreated because they couldn't take it anymore.
> 
> ...


Hard to tell whether you care or not. In any case, you're not going to hurt anyone else by being alone, so I wish you the best of luck.


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## Fennel (Jan 11, 2017)

Kizuna said:


> Ppphhhhhhh rubbish and nonsense!!!! As long as you are alive it's never too late. Believe in the Goodness of this world and appreciate what you DO have, even if it may appear little in comparison to many others. You may have been given things (not necessarily material things!) that I'd been craving since childhood, and vice versa. I don't even know you, but I refuse to give up on you just because I know humans have waaaaaaaay more potential that they themselves dare to assume. I have the right to believe you are perfectly capable of great deeds, ideas and feelings, no matter how "small" their visible scale. What YOU yourself believe is another question.


Thanks, I guess...

I just wish I felt like I matter to someone. Not just my job or my level of education or even "spiritual" stuff like awareness or "closeness to God", but ME. It's like I'm nothing unless I do this or that. It's always about some capability or big possibility.

Who would dare love me the way I am. No one.
Even if I did find a way to be a smashing success in the "normal" world, I would still go home and sleep alone. And keep all these feelings and thoughts to myself because nobody understands or cares... So it's useless to have a dream or goal or anything. Just a futile effort.


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## HumanBeing (May 28, 2014)

@Sei35

If you really have very different experiences from the people around you, which I neither confirm nor deny, then people won’t be able to relate to you on that level. But this something that is you, even if people don’t understand it, is still something you carry with you and affects your interaction with them. I’d be miserable if I expected people to understand me on a deeper level. But instead who I am informs my behavior, and I try to use that energy to create meaningful experiences.


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## PerfectlyImperfect (Jul 22, 2018)

Sei35 said:


> Thanks, I guess...
> 
> I just wish I felt like I matter to someone. Not just my job or my level of education or even "spiritual" stuff like awareness or "closeness to God", but ME. It's like I'm nothing unless I do this or that. It's always about some capability or big possibility.
> 
> ...


I care because I’ve felt pretty the exact same way at one point. May I ask how old you are


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## valosagutas (Nov 5, 2017)

Sei35 said:


> you're not going to hurt anyone else by being alone


Spot on! It's actually my real reason to be alone. No matter what people get hurt. Anything I believe strongly that helpful to me and others may be actually harmful and I may never realize it. It may be actually helpful but they may never realize it. For example:










I care but I'm a zero, therefore, it's best to wait for death. My last word probably will be "finally".


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## Mick Travis (Aug 18, 2016)

shadowbroker said:


> Living in the "normal world" makes you not forget that you can't do anything about society. You can't just stop all these BS by just caring. It's better not caring. Maybe that's why they retreated because they couldn't take it anymore.


Ignorance is bliss. I try to stay informed, but sometimes the information is overwhelming. I then strip away events and look at naked reality. It's not bliss like escapism, but it's more fun than watching our species play mind games of destruction.



shadowbroker said:


> And look at the "normal world" now: Watch all these BS. Witness the inevitable. Even though the answer is obvious, people just do what they want because they think they know the better. They weren't wise enough to be useful. In fact, they caused new problems (created religions to manipulate the society by using the Atlantis teaching). Instead of giving people the harsh truths, they make them believe the comfortable lies to use them which actually they gave what people wanted (what people think they need). Especially, the religion is a big problem of my country that halted any development. It didn't even have any remarkable effect on crime. They kill, rape, etc. then ask forgiveness from their imaginary being because their imaginary being is forgiving. They feel comfortable to think; even if they go to hell, somehow, after a while, it will be forgiven and they will be accepted to heaven. How can you make people care about the future of my country when they believe they will go to an imaginary place ("it will end at any moment so best wait in the "waiting room" and fool around")? (rhetorical question)
> 
> Actually, the real wise person(s) probably realized, even if you fix all the problems, it will turn back to its shitty state because humans have problems. It's hard-wired in them. It's better to accept the fact that you are a 0 in the equation (life), which the result is also 0 (everything will be destroyed), therefore, the equation doesn't matter and it's best to be your normal self without giving any single fuck about society (I didn't meant it as be selfish and go destroy society or something. just be yourself, do what is really best for you. for example, don't try to fit into a triangle hole if you are a square, you can't without break yourself which you shouldn't).


Some primates are more inclined to enslave the rest, because they can. It just takes research and information dissemination to clear this up. "The rest" simply need to break free from the hypnotic suggestion that they are humble servants.


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## valosagutas (Nov 5, 2017)

Mick Travis said:


> Ignorance is bliss.


Bliss is an illusion. Ignorance is a must for serenity. By serenity, I meant the state that the pain is low enough to handle it easily. Ignorance is one of the factors that decreases the suffering. The suffering is inevitable as long as you perceive it.



Mick Travis said:


> Some primates are more inclined to enslave the rest, because they can. It just takes research and information dissemination to clear this up. "The rest" simply need to break free from the hypnotic suggestion that they are humble servants.


**** sapiens is one of the animal species that choose their leader to make guarantee their own life. Because they are aware that they aren't capable enough to trust themselves to survive. If you show them a way to survive, they will follow you. Also, laziness a good factor that causes it. 

Therefore, most people are sheep. They need a shepherd. You wouldn't want your sheep to fall from a cliff, would you? Sheep are useful. You can use their milk, fur, meat, etc. They don't mind, in fact they be happy if you milk them. Look at them, how happy AF they are to chew grass or something. But it's not enough for them. They also have to love another sheep. Otherwise, what is the point of chewing every day? Being alone makes them sad but they think at least they are useful, they provide their milk or something and in return, they live. They think they are important because they provide. It kinda helps them to prevent an existential crisis. But they want another sheep to share grass, run together, just stay near each other, etc. 

When it found one, it produced and they had a lamb. But one day, the shepherd took its SO away somewhere. The sheep asked other sheep about if he will ever come back. The older "wise" sheep said: "baaa baaa ba." *ahem* it said: "they take the best sheep to somewhere and they never return. we believe it's a reward for being the best sheep. therefore, don't be sad. he is in a better place with other good sheep now." The female sheep had relief. It took care of their child and when their child grew, she told the story of his father about how he provided milk or something and because of it, he was a good sheep, therefore, they take him away to a better place. So, the lamb dreamt to be the very best, like no one ever was. to catch them is... *ahem* become the best sheep to reach that place. And the cycle continued.

Until one day, the day the shepherd didn't come, sheep understood that he will never come back. They become upset because they realized they will die and they didn't know what to do to survive. They had panic and somehow they run off outside the farm like a maniac. Some of them fell from the cliff following a stupid leader, some of them eaten by several wolves, some of them reached to a place where there is no food, therefore, they starved to death, some of them were hungry, therefore, they eat each other, some of them had existential crises, therefore, they suicided. One of them was clever and cared about other sheep, therefore, other sheep noticed the clever one and chose it as their leader and it didn't say no, so they survived until their leader refused to let one of the sheep eaten by wolves, therefore, the leader and other sheep eaten too. One of them also was clever, but it didn't care for others. It manipulated others to survive. One of them also was clever, it did care but it chose to be alone. It didn't want to be a leader and/or a manipulator.

The moral of the story is... Well, it's what you (reader) understand.


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## Mick Travis (Aug 18, 2016)

shadowbroker said:


> Therefore, most people are sheep. They need a shepherd.


You and I operate from 2 distinctly different viewpoints.


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## Judson Joist (Oct 25, 2013)

Sei35 said:


> None of those weird interests that kept me occupied but made me extremely lonely in the long run. None of those passions and plans that all sound like, "I wanna save the world!" Not even those warm fuzzy feelings I had for people I loved (and boy did I dote on them and obsess over them). Just plain, boring, ordinary life. This all sounds like the death of an NF soul...not that I'm complaining. It's just so comfortable that it's weird.


In other words, you've become...

....

...comfortably numb.


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## Fennel (Jan 11, 2017)

PerfectlyImperfect said:


> I care because I’ve felt pretty the exact same way at one point. May I ask how old you are


A bit older than you.


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## Row (Apr 28, 2018)

I recently realized I was unhappy with the way I was living my life. I think after I left high school I kind of thought I didn't quite fit in so I started to go with the flow of life and started acting "normal" (well relatively, I can be quite odd). And one day I was just looking out the window of the bus and I decided to write to a friend I hadn't talked to in over 2 years. So I wrote a huge text were I revealed a lot of personal things, about my feelings and experiences and whilst writing I was realizing that I had "become normal" . The fact that I was a kind of misfit had lulled me into becoming normal (not sure this makes sense). It deprived me of my passion. And this friend of mine just by reading (and responding, her response was more than I could have expected). It kind of gave me back my fighting spirit, gave me clarity.

I don't know if this small text will help you. But hopefully it'll do something, try to talk to someone you trust about your experiences/feelings. 

Hope I could be of some help


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## Fennel (Jan 11, 2017)

Another year of being normal... I've gotten pretty numb in the process, with a few bits of realization when I find my emotions and cry. This is very scary to me. A few more years and my soul will die, maybe even sooner. 

Plus I'm turning 30 and I still haven't gotten married. Still single and very lonely. Adulting, living in the real world is so tedious, I can't check in with my feelings most days, or create anything. I just have to write this before I get numb again, or I get back to work and get too busy to do anything about my inner self.

I'm tired most of the time and I know it's because I'm not able to do the things I like. They cost money, time and energy I haven't got. So even if I did a forced leave, there's no guarantee I'll be in the right mind to read or play music or study a foreign language or... even if I meet the right person now, I can't fall in love, my heart is too hardened and buried in the mud.

This is real life, there is no time for dreaming, I have to work or I cannot eat, etc etc etc...
I'm so tired of it all.

Thanks for listening.


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## Anunnaki Spirit (Mar 23, 2018)

The soul/spirit is the one thing that never dies going from one life to the next and is ancient.


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## Fennel (Jan 11, 2017)

I've only been 30 for a few days and I already hate it. I hate my life. It seems I can't fake normal after all.
I wish I'd die in my sleep. I don't want to see another workday. The endless grind. Ugh.


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## Mone (May 22, 2017)

Just reading posts, dear OP, makes me feeling sad. You seem pretty disappointed and on low emotions for a long term. You may feel comfortable (even though I don't see being tired and unhappy as "comfortable") but what about your future? What finding yourself again? Where is the dreamer you probably used to be?


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## leictreon (Jan 4, 2016)

overrated as fuck


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## Mick Travis (Aug 18, 2016)

I'm so ready to be normal.


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## Shrodingers drink (Nov 30, 2018)

There's no chance in hell I could be normal, but with the appropriate diet at least I can be regular.......


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## Fennel (Jan 11, 2017)

Mone said:


> Just reading posts, dear OP, makes me feeling sad. You seem pretty disappointed and on low emotions for a long term. You may feel comfortable (even though I don't see being tired and unhappy as "comfortable") but what about your future? What finding yourself again? Where is the dreamer you probably used to be?


That dreamer is probably long gone. Dead and more than six feet under.


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## Ele30 (Jul 4, 2017)

Sei35 said:


> Recently I woke up and realized that I'm a normie. *shudders*
> 
> Not that I'm complaining. I wished to be a normal person for my entire adult life, and now I'm it. Working an normal job, going to school, worrying about money and where I'll get my next meal. You know, ordinary things... I don't think I should be called INFJ or INFx anymore. Maybe I used to be, but I'm not a unicorn now.
> 
> ...


uhm, just wait and see if you get a breakdown... seriously though I don't think you will if you feel O.K. why not? If you don't you'll start feeling badly and who cares it will show you where to go next


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## Scoobyscoob (Sep 4, 2016)

Sei35 said:


> That dreamer is probably long gone. Dead and more than six feet under.


Are you saying you're Sans or something?


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## Radiant Wheelbarrow (Oct 13, 2017)

You are lovely to love, loveable and you love yourself.

Follow your bliss, or your terror, and see where it takes you.

Follow your natural, not your normal. A sunset over the horizon every day. Insanity is repeating the same thing - the world's crazy. And natural. Be as true as the world!

Normal is bad crazy. Crazy is good normal and the essence deep in all life. Tribal and inseparable from the chaos of reality. A star explodes every second, in sync with a beating heart. That's bad-good, good-badum-cha! Thanks but that wasn't a joke.

Try walking backwards through your town. Wear pants on your head to the store. Sing karaoke on the bus. At least you did something normal. Tell one of those street-performer human statues that you feel normal, and you don't feel happy, but you feel comfortable. They'll just look at you. Will they?

Practice 100 different smiles in the mirror and show them to people. 

It's OK if you're sad. It's OK if you gave up dreaming. That's natural. That's the best thing about you right now. Being normal is not an emotion, it is a narcissistic affection that posesses billions of people pretending to be humans. Someone said it helps to protect oneself from harm, so everyone did it. But everyone dies in the end. It was all a show. Vanity. Masks. Hats. Pants on your head to go to sleep. Important.

Eccentric people visit the doctor less, experience less stress and live longer. Try a different job, house, consciousness, yodel technique. You could lose everything! The universe is in your skin and you're stuck with it. Body odour is the smell of alien corpses seeping through. So don't sweat. You got this! 

Don't do anything, unless you want a zombie alien invasion. Your call, captain.


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## Fru2 (Aug 21, 2018)

What the hell is normal? How would you distinguish a normal person from one who isn't if everybody in the world is different? In the same manner, how would you know if you're normal if everybody around you is different? And who cares if you're normal or not anyway? You're you, so better get used to it.


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## Llyralen (Sep 4, 2017)

Fru2 said:


> What the hell is normal? How would you distinguish a normal person from one who isn't if everybody in the world is different? In the same manner, how would you know if you're normal if everybody around you is different? And who cares if you're normal or not anyway? You're you, so better get used to it.


So true... 
People have crazy trials too. I've realized that sometimes the people I think are the most care-free, when you talk to them deeper they might be dealing with some seriously crazy stuff, but have somehow learned to deal with grace. 

I kind of liked this video... I don't like how it was posted with a sensationalized title... but I liked the content of this about how fascinating he finds ordinary people are. Start at 2:35 and go forward to hear it. He thinks each person is an expert and each person has the makings of novels in them. True!


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## Kizuna (Jul 30, 2011)

Oh, the OP still hasn't changed her tag to "INFP"?? It's misleading for others, they'll think it's an INFJ dilemma (when it's not).


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## CountZero (Sep 28, 2012)

The thing is normal seems like heaven to some people. For instance, I score in the 99th percentile in most IQ/standardized tests. Great, right? The world is my oyster...nope. I have to deal with failed expectations. I'm a glorified button pusher, when I should've been - I don't know - a Nobel award winning scientist or something. My 'normal' half-siblings have successful careers, have families and externally appear a lot more 'normal' than their loner half-brother. Then there's the mental illness and childhood abuse I was gifted with. Those make forming healthy relationships a major trial. So don't knock normal.

On the other hand, I've gotten to know a few 'normal'/'successful' people well, and most of them aren't what they seem. They're usually trying desperately to project normality or success, which can lead to unfulfilled lives, dissatisfaction, and at it's worst neuroses and mental illness. It can also indicate some really nasty skeletons in the closet - they're overcompensating so no one starts digging up their dirty secrets. Now I'm not exactly a people person, so I don't know a lot of people, but from my limited experience I'd say normal is usually an illusion.


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## Fennel (Jan 11, 2017)

Kizuna said:


> Oh, the OP still hasn't changed her tag to "INFP"?? It's misleading for others, they'll think it's an INFJ dilemma (when it's not).


It's neither INFP nor an INFJ dilemma. It's personal.


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## LizaChumbalaya (Apr 24, 2014)

What is normal? There is no such thing as the word "normal". Normalcy is a socially constructed concept.


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## Superfly47 (Jun 15, 2018)

Normal people don't worry about being normal.


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