# Have you ever hated yourself for being an NT?



## day_dreamer (Nov 8, 2010)

Well the question is pretty simple: Have you ever felt that being a non-NT is better than what you are? I mean we all like ourselves, etc etc but when retrospecting or introspecting, have you thought that it was better to have no conscience, intelligence or worst, the thirst for knowing the truth? 

Because conscience creates all the troublesome conflicts with your mind and heart, intelligence and truth seeking attitude lands us in the trouble of knowing things which permanently leaves ugly scars on our mind (truth is bitter most of the times). 

I sometimes think that the ESXPs are better off than us as they simply live life and enjoy each moments of it without wasting time behind philosophies that would no way enhance our lives or anything. For NTs, settling anything below perfection is appalling and the quest for perfection for NTPs is usually more difficult as we tend to leave things unfinished (the moment it becomes uninteresting).

Anyway, your thoughts on this?


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## Captain Epic (Feb 24, 2012)

I agree; the amount of time I waste _thinking_ about something rather than actually _doing_ something disturbs me. I wish I could just go out and enjoy life, but my brain doesn't let me :tongue:


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## Jewl (Feb 28, 2012)

Whenever you start thinking like this, you should tell yourself you're going off the deep end and are beginning to over-analyze. Embrace you faults because we all have them. Don't hate yourself for them. You are your own unique person. Even SP's hate themselves sometimes. Some of them probably wish they were more like NT's because living purely in the moment can have its problems too. You don't have to be an NT to think this way - I sometimes find myself thinking the same way too. 

My little pep talk. x3 That was slightly unintentional.


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## Hycocritical truth teller (Aug 29, 2011)

JuliaBell said:


> Whenever you start thinking like this, you should tell yourself *you're going off the deep end and are beginning to over-analyze.* Embrace you faults because we all have them. Don't hate yourself for them. You are your own unique person. Even SP's hate themselves sometimes. Some of them probably wish they were more like NT's because living purely in the moment can have its problems too. You don't have to be an NT to think this way - I sometimes find myself thinking the same way too.
> 
> My little pep talk. x3 That was slightly unintentional.


I personally get all nervous or disturbed when I can't over-analyze - I have a crisis often. I find myself lost.
It's how i process things, how i process world around me - I NEED IT! ...or people around me just die cuz i become massive murderer cuz i'm out of my natural process...
Oh yeah and talking about SP/NT - i had a conversation with ISFP friend - she often says she process things with emotions and doesn't think a lot sometimes, just hears silence in her head and feels...that's her explanation
I have a noise in my head which would probably turn off any visitor hahaha

Only reason wouldnt like to be NT is maybe cuz 40% of people find me inappropriate, 30% too complicated, another 20% thinks im just actually insane ad 10% really adores me. But then on the other hand i like that 10% so im cool - don't really care for the other 90%...don't know...i kinda always think that everything has its match - so why wanna be smth else!


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## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

I agree with the first two posts, although I don't "hate" myself. The reality is that I tend to think far too much without doing, and everything is too self-conscious for me; I wish I could just "be" and "be in the moment" more. I also wish sometimes I was warmer, more emotive, more outwardly passionate, and whatever else; I felt some envy over Rapunzel from Tangled, although I also couldn't help but see her as a little ditzy from my T perspective; she just seemed to liberated to me, and brightly burning outwardly. And I feel unnoticed sometimes because I'm just detached and hang back in my IxTx way...

But I am who I am. There are pro's and con's.

I mean, I talk to others who are jealous of NTs because they aren't NTs. I don't get the degree of it, but whatever...


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

I don't believe that I have ever hated myself for being an NT, although I suppose at times I have disliked it. Overall, I tend to quite like being an NT.


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## Jewl (Feb 28, 2012)

Jennywocky said:


> I agree with the first two posts, although I don't "hate" myself. The reality is that I tend to think far too much without doing, and everything is too self-conscious for me; I wish I could just "be" and "be in the moment" more. I also wish sometimes I was warmer, more emotive, more outwardly passionate, and whatever else; I felt some envy over Rapunzel from Tangled, although I also couldn't help but see her as a little ditzy from my T perspective; she just seemed to liberated to me, and brightly burning outwardly. And I feel unnoticed sometimes because I'm just detached and hang back in my IxTx way...
> 
> But I am who I am. There are pro's and con's.
> 
> I mean, I talk to others who are jealous of NTs because they aren't NTs. I don't get the degree of it, but whatever...


You are who you are. Your personality type does not confine you. Sometimes we set limits for ourselves without realizing. You can be more "in the moment" if you wish. ^^


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## Chipps (Jun 1, 2011)

The only thing that can be hated about it is that most people are intuitive thinkers, so the world doesn't exactly cater to this combination. Add in the EJ and you become the asshole in a heartbeat. I have a pretty well developed introverted thinking but having to curb my extroverted thinking tendencies is quite annoying. To me, I'm just being honest and would hope that everyone said what was on their mind. I literally do not possess a filter though. Sometimes it comes out and I never think of altering it. I'd rather choose to say nothing than alter what it is that I say.

I really like having the intuition though. It seems that Sensors, especially Sensing Feelers live in a world of blissful ignorance to a degree. Especially Sensing/Feeling women. They have a much easier time and don't constantly spend time thinking, thinking, thinking, and that must be nice, but I also know that the extroverted ones literally are afraid to spend too much time alone because they'd have to actually think for themselves.

Being an intuitive is like being privy to a bit more information about the world that other people don't see. I pick up impressions really easily, I have a heightened awareness about the world around me. I can be in a crowded rooms and completely in my head, but a part of my brain is still monitoring what is going on around me. Knowing what I know now, I couldn't imagine not doing it.

I think to SF types, or even STs to a degree, being a NT seems like it might suck. Like I said, the world doesn't really cater to it. Sensing Feelers often have a tendency to assume that because something would be harmful to them and their feelings, that it would have the same impact on me. For example, I have tendency to be the black sheep or outcast, especially when dealing with a bunch of SF women. To them, they probably think this makes me sad and I want to be accepted because they would want to be accepted, but I honestly couldn't care less. Because I have Fi it takes quite a bit to actually hurt my feelings, which while making me seem cold, its a benefit to me.


I do however develop misanthropic feeling from time to time and I feel mentally exhausted. Their is this air of disappointment about the world that I carry around with me all the time. Being an odd ball all the time does cause me to feel defeated every once in a while, but all in all being an NT is pretty great.


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## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

JuliaBell said:


> You are who you are. Your personality type does not confine you. Sometimes we set limits for ourselves without realizing. You can be more "in the moment" if you wish. ^^


... and I'm definitely moreso over the last few years. (I've been infused with Zen! Wheee!)

But I'll still at core always naturally be someone inclined to disengage and step back whenever something happens, and I do have to work at not being so self-restrictive.


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## Siren (Jun 25, 2011)

When I was in high school I was upset I wasn't more popular because I was so painfully shy. But I have been fine ever since then!


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## TheBoss (Oct 27, 2011)

day_dreamer said:


> have you thought that it was better to have no conscience, intelligence or worst, the thirst for knowing the truth?
> 
> Because conscience creates all the troublesome conflicts with your mind and heart, intelligence and truth seeking attitude lands us in the trouble of knowing things which permanently leaves ugly scars on our mind (truth is bitter most of the times).


This sounds *a lot* like saying non NTs lack conscience, intelligence and desire for truth...I disagree.

And I enjoy being NT. 
My thinking can be overwhelming - I suppose just as overwhelming as feelings are to feelers - but it doesn't make me act less. Is quite the opposite. I act more, because I think more imho. And maybe because entjs are action oriented people, implementers. We think so to apply and improve (things, life, ourselves, etc).
Granted sometimes I think of so many things simultaneously, it gets off hand and even I realize that. But is fun, is damn fun.

Imagine the NT Thinking as the Big Bang. One tiny spot/idea/thought expanding to multiverses of contradicting, applying, connecting, conflicting, improving, mutually supporting, ideas in the everlasting search for Truth(s). 

Is Fascinating. And if sometimes we get lost inside our minds, well, is a journey worth taking.


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## downsowf (Sep 12, 2011)

Jennywocky said:


> I also wish sometimes I was warmer, more emotive, more outwardly passionate, and whatever else;


This is the one thing I suppose if I could I would like to develop; at the same time, my ability to be impersonal, direct, and generally unbiased makes me who I am. My job also forces me to be/ or has made me more impersonal. I have to deal with people's problems on a daily basis, but I am so worried about using their story and getting the facts out of them, that my questions can take on the tone of an interrogator. I've had to learn to show sympathy, but I simply come off as disingenuous. 

Another example is today when I asked a professor I knew how his kid was doing because I heard she was sick. I wasn't expecting to get into the topic with him, but asked him the question to be nice. He ended up telling me that his kid has seizures and I felt bad, but could not exhibit the proper reaction. I didn't know what to say and I honestly could not show any emotion, or any reaction at all for that matter, when he was telling me the story. I wanted to. I was trying to relate and put myself in his shoes.

I hate not being able to relate to people, being dispassionate, or take someone's feelings into consideration.


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## Arcaeus (Dec 31, 2011)

I have felt the desire sometimes to be "normal" - more outwardly expressive, interesting, and loving - but it's always fleeting, and I fall back in love with myself pretty quickly.

I love being NT. Nothing is greater in my mind. Nothing makes me feel more alive or more in touch with reality than my ability to decipher everything around me with an intent and interest.


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## HippoHunter94 (Jan 19, 2012)

No. I love who I am. There's no one else I want to be, and there's nothing about me I couldn't change by myself. To be honest, I get more upset for a lot of people not being NT's.


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## nonnaci (Sep 25, 2011)

I wouldn't trade truth for ignorance any day.


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## dragonfriend (Feb 24, 2012)

No, but for being human yes.


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## Ce Jeu (Dec 26, 2011)

I'm hating myself right now for being an NT. Right now, I'm feeling that I'm way too worrisome, over analyzing and not enjoying the moment. I sometimes just want to switch off my thinking and just have a go at it. 
Also, being an NT woman hasn't been too easy for me in many ways. Life seems much more simple and bubbly being something else. Like someone has already mentioned previously, without my intention, I grew up being regarded as inappropriate, insane, and many other things. Now, I've learned to shut up most of the time and not be verbally expressive around many people.


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## Solrac026 (Mar 6, 2012)

I have to agree with Arcaeus on this one. I do kick myself for being so introverted, but at the end of the day I know that what I'm doing is the right thing.

@ Ce Jeu - If you can't stop thinking or worrying, I advise you look for music that relaxes you and slows down your train of thought. I know I've found some songs that stop my mind from turning and that helps when I'm worried about things I can't change.


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## bellisaurius (Jan 18, 2012)

> Have you ever hated yourself for being an NT?


Well. _That just wouldn't be logical_.

Nah, I get annoyed with paralysis of analysis at times. I've tried to live more Romantically in the past, but that feels like an interpretation of how I think feeling is supposed to be as actually feeling. I've resolved the conscience thing by just having a code I follow. As long as I think I'm making the effort, I tend not to worry much about it.


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## PyrLove (Jun 6, 2010)

Nope, I've never hated myself for being an NT. I've never disliked myself for this reason; I've never wished I could be another type. I'm grateful for my rationality, my ability to be dispassionate even in the face of someone else's rage, and that I trust reason my before my heart.

I don't think I would have survived as well as I have if I were any other type.


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## day_dreamer (Nov 8, 2010)

TheBoss said:


> This sounds *a lot* like saying non NTs lack conscience, intelligence and desire for truth...I disagree.


Nope, I didn't mean that. What I meant was other types give less importance to these or only consider one of these most important unlike us who live by all of them. 

SJ's have extremely high conscience, sometimes even more than NTPs. SPs are usually very clever and sometimes, intelligent. :tongue: In fact, they would have been really amazing if they were a little less "all-about-themselves" and thought about the future consequences a bit more before acting. I mean being selfish isn't bad, but only living for yourself can lead to unpleasant stuff sometimes. I am pretty selfish most of the times, but I try to be fair and justified to others when time or circumstances calls for it and if any sacrifices are needed, I would do it.

Honestly speaking, no other 'S' type ever liked knowing the ugly truth about the things they really liked or loved. We NTs would prefer bitter truth over nice lies any day.



Ce Jeu said:


> Also, being an NT woman hasn't been too easy for me in many ways. Life seems much more simple and bubbly being something else. Like someone has already mentioned previously, without my intention, I grew up being regarded as inappropriate, insane, and many other things. Now, I've learned to shut up most of the time and not be verbally expressive around many people.


Same here. Life as NT woman is not easy. While I acknowledge my gifts, it is hard to play by the stereotype all the time. Society doesn't like strong and dominant females when it comes to choosing mates, like it or not. I had huge trouble landing with reasonable dates as males always found me masculine or intimidating. :crying: 

Well life might not be hard for the other stronger females out there, but I am just quoting from my experience. Forget truthfulness, it is not being easy just being yourself all the time. I just have to camouflage my real self all the time if I have to get some real work done.



ChanceyRose said:


> Nope, I've never hated myself for being an NT. I've never disliked myself for this reason; I've never wished I could be another type.


Just curious, why are you hiding your type identity in the forums then? I mean if you are proud of being who you are, why not flaunt it? What is your excuse to hide it? The same applies to everyone who change or hide their identity in the forums. I can imagine why for some cases, but I would like to hear from them. 

I think I should have re-phrased the question in the topic as why do you dislike yourself as NTs sometimes instead of saying 'would you wish you were some other type'. I was just expressing why I feel life is hard sometimes being NTs as we are the minority in the world. It is difficult living life when at every step you have to explain the best course of actions to others when they can't see it and refuse to be objective or reasonable over some problem which is smaller than bigger and invisible problems (or potential problems).

It is difficult for us to mingle with our same sex as friends as their topic of discussion are quite different from ours, especially for women. I am done with talking about handsome guys, cosmetics, money or TV soaps, why can't you talk about something that mentally, philosophically or spiritually benefit each other? Or at least talk about something that would help us lead better lives or business? For males, the latter is easy as most are money minded and would generally talk about work or business most of the time. But what beyond that? 

I am aware that other NTs who are amidst a sensible lot of people might not face these problems often or at all. You guys are lucky, thats all I can say.


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## DlusionAl (Apr 9, 2011)

day_dreamer said:


> Nope, I didn't mean that. What I meant was other types give less importance to these or only consider one of these most important unlike us who live by all of them.
> 
> SJ's have extremely high conscience, sometimes even more than NTPs. SPs are usually very clever and sometimes, intelligent. :tongue: In fact, *they would have been really amazing if they were a little less "all-about-themselves" and thought about the future consequences a bit more before acting*. I mean being selfish isn't bad, but only living for yourself can lead to unpleasant stuff sometimes. I am pretty selfish most of the times, but I try to be fair and justified to others when time or circumstances calls for it and if any sacrifices are needed, I would do it.
> 
> ...


Your views on S types seem a bit off. Especially that last comment.


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## day_dreamer (Nov 8, 2010)

DlusionAl said:


> Your views on S types seem a bit off. Especially that last comment.


That is speaking some experience. 'S's do have some amazing qualities, and I admire those. But like I said, they don't like truth like this one, especially when it comes to self discovery. 

SPs like knowing shocking things, so yeah they can possibly handle 'truth' about other things. But it is more about the 'shock' effect than the truth that attracts them. They like controversies, as much as SJs. In fact, a large chunk of the media and entertainment industry thrives on scandals, scams and such shocking reports than some minor discovery of science, etc. Truth about the universe doesn't intrigue them unless it is useful in day-to-day affair.

I haven't seen even one SP sacrificing for something or someone they don't know (even when considering it is fair or justified). If everyone is doing it, they won't mind doing it as it is the 'trend' rather than the act itself. My mom is an SP and I both love and hate her. She does a lot for me, but she won't do that for anybody else who really deserve it. I consider her close to my heart, so I often criticize her inefficient ways of doing things coz that is how I express my care, love and concern for somebody because I want them to correct their flaws and become flawless. But she thinks I don't care about her and that I am cruel to her and that I will send her to some old age home (when in reality I have been planning to get a nice house for her and dad for a long time now). I mean, come on, you have seen me for YEARS, more than my sister has. Can't you see I care for you? Can't you make out why I am doing it? You are my MOM. You are supposed to know me better than anybody else!!

My NFP sister doesn't mind even when I am yelling at her, coz she knows I don't hate her, its just that I am worried that if she repeats this mistake somewhere else, she will be mercilessly retributed. She has a chance to correct it now. If I didn't care about her, I would let her keep doing stupid mistakes. See, thats the difference I was talking about. SPs like knowing shocking truths about others, but can't take when it comes to them. They can't accept that they can be imperfect too and being imperfect isn't bad.


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## DlusionAl (Apr 9, 2011)

day_dreamer said:


> That is speaking some experience. 'S's do have some amazing qualities, and I admire those. But like I said, they don't like truth like this one, especially when it comes to self discovery.
> 
> SPs like knowing shocking things, so yeah they can possibly handle 'truth' about other things. But it is more about the 'shock' effect than the truth that attracts them. They like controversies, as much as SJs. In fact, a large chunk of the media and entertainment industry thrives on scandals, scams and such shocking reports than some minor discovery of science, etc. Truth about the universe doesn't intrigue them unless it is useful in day-to-day affair.
> 
> ...


Well if its speaking from personal experience then you shouldnt generalize. Especially since a lot of SP types are so different from each other.

I like to know the truth, regardless of its being negative or positive. Though its not about everything, I look for the information I care about.

Ive definitely sacrificed for people I dont know, who deserved or didnt deserve it. It doesnt matter to me.

And perfection is the most retarded thing anyone can strive for.

Though then again, I can only speak for myself and cant generalize on other SP types. Damn this catch 22.


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## ThatName (Nov 9, 2011)

there were times I wanted to be an isfj for a day, because they seem so organized and efficient in getting things done. however, I'm grateful for NTs, because they tend to be the pioneers in advancing civilizations. what would society look like without them? Would we have cars, telephones, computers, internet, or the seven wonders of the world?


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## TheBoss (Oct 27, 2011)

day_dreamer said:


> 1. We NTs would prefer bitter truth over nice lies any day.
> 
> 2. I just have to camouflage my real self all the time if I have to get some real work done.
> 
> ...


1. I think I know what you mean and I agree.

2. True...But I believe some non NT types feel the same way.

3. Not only true but dental. Yeah Dental, not mental. Gives the exact same distress like being on a dentist chair.

4. *stabs self* Oh gods this is so true. Though I have seen many NT (and/or alleged NT) females doing that...empty useless discussions. :dry:

5. This, is the only thing I disagree with. And I want to push you to see it like I do because it is a positive alternative. Like a gift. Perhaps it doesn't apply to *I*NTXs but I will give it a shot:
Reasons why we have it easy:
1. We rationalize and that way the sentimental impact is less, can be handled and even controlled.
2. Society (well at least the other half), adores strong women. Not bitches; strong ones. Men drool over us. We are different, we are forceful, we are powerful even merely as characters. Men.Love.That. 
3. We go get. And that multiplies our pool of candidates and options. (this may not apply to Introverts...)
4. Men fall for us with passion. It is their most primal instinct that pulls them to us. Few call it sour grapes. 
5. People are cautious about playing us down. They stop dead if we draw the line.
6. As younger ones, we don't mind a rejection because again: we rationalize. You can't have them all, is fine, plenty of fish out there. And we can figure out the love mechanics and strategy better next time.
"I like you because you are cool but am not in love with you" is a very rational argument and doesn't leave an NT gal hurt for long - IF it leaves her hurt at all, that is.
7. Academically we excel and even if we don't, our opinions are still respected. Because after all, they are NT opinions. We back them up with facts and knowledge.
8. Surprise factor grabs attention. Don't tell me you haven't noticed males getting shocked or surprised and subsequently looking at you with 'that' look (of awe with a touch of hormones) when you do a feat that simple to you, is very unexpected from women?
9. We are warm, we are cuddly, we are loving. We just don't flaunt it, or use it like a fishnet trap.

We, turn heads. *Without even trying.* <- THIS is the absolute difference from other types I believe. 
In addition, we still get the benefits of being female. Doors are opened, chivalry, care, you name it. We outperform, but we do not have to do that all the time.

If an NT knows how to appreciate her strengths, she has it easier than other types and easier than men too.
Is not a fair world, what can I say? :wink:


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## PyrLove (Jun 6, 2010)

day_dreamer said:


> Just curious, why are you hiding your type identity in the forums then? I mean if you are proud of being who you are, why not flaunt it? What is your excuse to hide it?


Simply, stereotypes annoy me. I've come to believe that, for me, self-labeling only perpetuates a biased expectation (from others, as well as myself) of my behavior and attitudes.

It was a huge relief two years ago when I discovered this forum. For once I was able to revel in my sameness rather than justify my differences. Stereotypes exist because there is at least a nugget of truth to them. I identify as INTJ based on my understanding of the cognitive functions. I exhibit many of the qualities attributed to INTJs in the type descriptions. But, I'm also _more _than just the type descriptions.

Being an NT woman can be difficult. I've experienced many of the negative things you've discussed. I don't relate easily to most women. When I was younger, men seemed to be intimidated by me and, consequently, uninterested in me as a romantic partner. I've been chastised personally and professionally for being tactless, rude, inconsiderate, bossy, patronizing, sarcastic, cynical, argumentative, and too smart for my own good. I've learned to read situations and adapt my behavior to maximize my gain (or minimize the attention I draw). Mostly, I've learned to ignore the critics.

I've also learned to recognize that I'm not the only one who struggles. Being an Introvert of any flavor is difficult. Thinking dom/aux females struggle with being to cerebral while Feeling dom/aux males struggle with being too touchy. Intuitive dom/aux of either gender will always be accused of being spacey or disconnected while Sensing dom/aux will always be seen as incapable of seeing past their noses. Stereotypes, all of them, but they don't have to define who you are.


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## Shrubber (Feb 21, 2012)

TheBoss said:


> 2. True...But I believe some non NT types feel the same way.
> 
> 4. *stabs self* Oh gods this is so true. Though I have seen many NT (and/or alleged NT) females doing that...empty useless discussions. :dry:
> 
> 5. This, is the only thing I disagree with. And I want to push you to see it like I do because it is a positive alternative. Like a gift. *Perhaps it doesn't apply to INTXs* but I will give it a shot:


Yeah... speaking from a strongly introverted NT perspective, the list is a no-no-no. I think it would more apply to female ENTJs.
Strong in Western cultures seems to mean loud. People seem to equate your ability to convince people of an idea and be really "I BELIEVE IN THIS!" with the value of the idea (of course...". Being a quiet observer and being strong? lolno. We definitely don't go get. We often don't show enough of ourselves to surprise people. Aren't outspoken enough to insist that we are actually drawing a line that can't be crossed. I am not warm or cuddly even with friends and family. I don't care enough about dating to be happy about attracting guys even if I did (which I definitely don't).
The only thing that holds true for me is doing well academically. But, as I said, Western culture has an extravert ideal, and while I'm off daydreaming, people seem to get the idea that spacey = idiot. Really just means I don't care about your gossip or my surroundings very much.


For #2, I don't really understand what day_dreamer means with the wording. What kind of work -- jobs, being social? From talking with my ISFP brother a lot, most people feel like they have to ignore what their personalities would prefer to do in order to fit in. 

#4 - Please don't stab yourself, the world has few enough of us as it is  
I can't stand to talk to people most days... I just want to scream "HEY DOES ANYBODY WANT TO DISCUSS SOCIOLOGY NOW?"


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## TheBoss (Oct 27, 2011)

Shrubber said:


> Yeah... speaking from a strongly introverted NT perspective, the list is a no-no-no. I think it would more apply to female ENTJs.
> 
> For #2, I don't really understand what day_dreamer means with the wording. What kind of work -- jobs, being social? From talking with my ISFP brother a lot, most people feel like they have to ignore what their personalities would prefer to do in order to fit in.
> 
> I can't stand to talk to people most days... I just want to scream "HEY DOES ANYBODY WANT TO DISCUSS SOCIOLOGY NOW?"


- Yeah, you're right, thanks for taking a moment to correct this. I was set on finding a silver lining, an advice to improve things. But with Is, change really comes from inside, a change on how they view thing, a self cheering up - which is real hard for any type.

*skipping here your arguments because they were good and I have nothing to add or dispute*

- I think no2 is about what you say, plus, playing down one's traits, in general, to fit in and even find & maintain a job. It is stressful even for Es.

- Hahahaha that would turn a few heads for sure.


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## day_dreamer (Nov 8, 2010)

TheBoss said:


> 5. This, is the only thing I disagree with. And I want to push you to see it like I do because it is a positive alternative. Like a gift. Perhaps it doesn't apply to *I*NTXs but I will give it a shot:
> Reasons why we have it easy:
> 1. We rationalize and that way the sentimental impact is less, can be handled and even controlled.
> 2. Society (well at least the other half), adores strong women. Not bitches; strong ones. Men drool over us. We are different, we are forceful, we are powerful even merely as characters. Men.Love.That.
> ...


Haha thanks a lot for pointing these out, these were some strong points in my life that I often down play and over estimate the problems I face everyday. 

It is true some guys really really respect and admire me for being fearless and standing up for myself. In fact what I am doing now for my occupation has created enough sensation in my domain as I think I am one of the few women doing my kind of job. But I always thought it to be a 'scandalous attention' instead of the 'admiring attention' sort as whatever I do or say always shocks people ( I don't like attracting unnecessary attention just to be in the limelight, so I tend to be secretive and more people become curious as to why I am being secretive and consider that awesomeness :dry. 

I didn't like this sort of respect that people bestowed which was like-'look she can do this or that, she is bold' because they mold me into a different stereotype that I do not wish to represent and they cannot see beyond that. I remember being stalked by a distant friend of mine (who really admired me) as I did stuff that didn't fit in what he believed is right. To him, it was like -'how could *SHE* do this?' sort of stuff.

With a lot of difficulty I found out who the stalker was and talked to him into believing that I am doing what is good for me and that he should mind his own business.

I can't say about western countries as I come from a third world 'eastern' country where people are very traditional and conservative, but here strong women means hard core bitches who would get everything they want. Men here consider this 'go-getting' attitude to be evil and might burn me alive some day :tongue:



Shrubber said:


> For #2, I don't really understand what day_dreamer means with the wording. What kind of work -- jobs, being social? From talking with my ISFP brother a lot, most people feel like they have to ignore what their personalities would prefer to do in order to fit in.


I meant ordinary day to day work. For example, if I am the boss in some place and tell my employee to do his job properly (when he is older than me or probably with more experience) even when I am not showing any arrogance or anything and merely minding my duties, it is considered that I am being a bitch. They would consider me a nice boss only when I play by the female stereotype of smiling and being nice while telling them to do the job or I would become unpopular and nobody would listen to me. 

I can never raise my voice even when somebody has performed a stupendous mistake because I am *not a man* and it is not considered normal for a woman to 'show anger' or be aggressive. Even in the smallest interaction with people, I have to play the female stereotype if I want to get that work done smoothly.  This might not be true for western country though(I live in India btw).



ChanceyRose said:


> Simply, stereotypes annoy me. I've come to believe that, for me, self-labeling only perpetuates a biased expectation (from others, as well as myself) of my behavior and attitudes.
> 
> It was a huge relief two years ago when I discovered this forum. For once I was able to revel in my sameness rather than justify my differences. Stereotypes exist because there is at least a nugget of truth to them. I identify as INTJ based on my understanding of the cognitive functions. I exhibit many of the qualities attributed to INTJs in the type descriptions. But, I'm also more than just the type descriptions.
> 
> I've also learned to recognize that I'm not the only one who struggles. Being an Introvert of any flavor is difficult. Thinking dom/aux females struggle with being to cerebral while Feeling dom/aux males struggle with being too touchy. Intuitive dom/aux of either gender will always be accused of being spacey or disconnected while Sensing dom/aux will always be seen as incapable of seeing past their noses. Stereotypes, all of them, but they don't have to define who you are.


Stereotypes annoy me also, but as long as I have to live in the society I know I will be treated by the stereotype I symbolize.:angry:

And this part matches with my experiences perfectly-


> When I was younger, men seemed to be intimidated by me and, consequently, uninterested in me as a romantic partner. I've been chastised personally and professionally for being tactless, rude, inconsiderate, bossy, patronizing, sarcastic, cynical, argumentative, and too smart for my own good. I've learned to read situations and adapt my behavior to maximize my gain (or minimize the attention I draw).


So while being an NT definitely has its advantages, it is not so nice thing to be when it comes to 'living' in a society. :sad:


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## TheBoss (Oct 27, 2011)

day_dreamer said:


> I can't say about western countries as I come from a third world 'eastern' country where people are very traditional and conservative, but here strong women means hard core bitches who would get everything they want. Men here consider this 'go-getting' attitude to be evil and might burn me alive some day :tongue:


From what I see, west is jus like that par the burn part. Maybe even that. :laughing:

Look, in a crisis, the only person that will be there for you for sure, will be yourself. (Ok and family if you have a close one.) When poop really hit the fun, all you have is yourself. No colleagues, no buddies, no nobody.
You can't allow anybody to put you down and the circumstances to keep applying so much pressure to you. You need to keep yourself intact to be strong enough to help you bounce right back up if you experience some really nasty turn in your life. And most of us do, sooner or later.

Btw let me "fix" something


> look she can do this or that, she is bold


like this:


> look she can do this or that, she is competent


But am taken aback with the stalker story...Glad you managed to handle that optimally.


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## Abraxas (May 28, 2011)

day_dreamer said:


> Have you ever *felt* that being a non-NT is better than what you are?


The best irony is really subtle.

:wink:


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## day_dreamer (Nov 8, 2010)

Abraxas said:


> The best irony is really subtle.
> 
> :wink:


 Why is it ironical? Aren't we entitled to feel just because we are NTs?

You won't think about something unless it means something to you either in terms of material gains or feelings. Here I chose the latter.


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## SophiaScorpia (Apr 15, 2012)

Not particulary hate, hate is much a very strong word for what I feel. Perhaps, you could say _dislike_? Well, because it has gotten me enough troubles to last me a lifetime..hehe..and sometimes, it makes my relationship to my peers really hard to control and manage especially when in a team.


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## Master Mind (Aug 15, 2011)

day_dreamer said:


> Well the question is pretty simple: Have you ever felt that being a non-NT is better than what you are?


Absolutely not. I wouldn't rather be anything other than what I am.



day_dreamer said:


> I mean we all like ourselves, etc etc but when retrospecting or introspecting, have you thought that it was better to have no conscience, intelligence or worst, the thirst for knowing the truth?


Absolutely not. Ignorance is not bliss, as far as I'm concerned. If I had no intelligence, then I would not be myself. If I didn't thirst for knowledge I wouldn't be myself.



day_dreamer said:


> Because conscience creates all the troublesome conflicts with your mind and heart, intelligence and truth seeking attitude lands us in the trouble of knowing things which permanently leaves ugly scars on our mind (truth is bitter most of the times).


I'd rather have the bitter truth than a pleasant lie.



day_dreamer said:


> I sometimes think that the ESXPs are better off than us as they simply live life and enjoy each moments of it without wasting time behind philosophies that would no way enhance our lives or anything.


"Grass is greener"...


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## chittychitty LightNING (Apr 9, 2012)

Interesting. I've actually tried not over-analyzing once (by ending my self-talk) and after a day, I almost felt like my head was going to derail and explode. If I cannot process, I'm uncertain about what will happen. I would guess depression. I must rant, and I must rationalize and analyze.

When not thinking... The feeling is like a pure quiet. It is almost unsettling at times. After a while you don't notice it anymore, and you feel like a drone going through the motions of life. Hard to describe because I haven't really tried to explore this uncharted region very much. All I know is it's a very odd experience.


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## day_dreamer (Nov 8, 2010)

Master Mind said:


> Absolutely not. I wouldn't rather be anything other than what I am.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well then, good for you.



> chittychitty LightNING


 You did not answer the question.


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## LadyO.W.BernieBro (Sep 4, 2010)

No, no, and no.

Honestly I don't give one single shit.

I'm sure I went through a self-hate phase as a teenager but there are so many more important things in life.

I hear it's even worse to be an NT female, funny, I hadn't noticed.

I can't speak for other NT women but I am the most important person in "my world", and I know how self-centered that sounds.

But I am self-centered, so I've never been deeply concerned about what others around me think and have probably not even picked up on any kind of discrimination.

I'll be working in an industry where being an NT woman is an asset and I'm sure I won't always be treated the way feeling women are treated, but that's how I like it.


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## AgnosticGirl (Apr 20, 2012)

What is the point in hating yourself? 

I hope non-NTs have a conscience. I don't like the whole stereotype that non-NTs are impulsive. They simply communicate more emotion, and we communicate more thoughts. This is the big difference. NTs are not frigid, and NFs are not necessarily irrational. 

This is not the "ignorance is bliss" argument assuming everyone is ignorant outside "our type", is it? *Eye roll*. I've been on this line of thought. You met some moronic feeling type, didn't you? Believe me, I've met some stupid thinking types, too. I wouldn't get stuck on words like "thinking type" and "feeling type". Personality traits are outward appearances. There is more to character. Impulsivity has a lot to do with the connections in the brain. Then, some people are raised ignorant...their parents teach them nothing..and some people are just immature. 

If you dig deeper than the surface you'll notice some NFs think things through, and some do not. Like all "types". 

Ignorance is just ignorance. There is nothing blissful about reaping the consequences of not thinking things through. That's irrelevant to being NT, since it is difficult for me to believe all NTs are wise.


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## wiarumas (Aug 27, 2010)

No. (10 char)


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## Catwalk (Aug 12, 2015)

ninjahitsawall said:


> Interesting thing about ENTP's though, sometimes you can see the weak Fe leaking through their cocky statements.


 _Hehehe.._


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