# Correlation between Disorders of Mental Illness and MBTI personality types.



## elvis2010

Baffling you with bullshit? I condensed down into a page what took me three days of research to get to. If I just tell you then I get the infamous "could be" crap. Unlike the Ns who spout out theory without regards to whether it could be right, I have to satisfy the world's toughest critic, me.

I will clue you in. There are three opioid receptors and three types of natural pain killers (endorphins). The mu receptor endorphin is beta-endorphin which I said it couldn't be. The delta opioid receptor endorphin is enkephalin. The kappa opioid receptor endoprhin type is dynorphin.

Now milk hits the mu receptor, and wheat hits the delta receptor, but what do kappa opioids like dynorphin do?

Single intrathecal injections of dynorphin A or de... [Pain. 1996] - PubMed result

It sure looks like one injection of dynorphin into the spinal cord causes autism. 

So tell me why dynoprhin does not equal autism?

As for why the casein and gluten take a while to clear, A heroin-, but not a cocaine-expecting, self-admin... [Eur J Pharmacol. 1999] - PubMed result

The casomorpin and gluteomorphin cause dynorphin levels to rise like heroin did, and the effects of dynorphin are long lasting.

Are you impressed with my theory? It sure answers a lot, doesn't it?


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## Introvertigo

The first article noted an association between dynorphin injection in the spinal cord and symptoms of sensory hyper/hyposensitivities. Sensory perception/processing disturbances are frequently, but not always associated with autism. I do not see a causal relationship.

What about the classic triad of symptomatology described in the DSM IV/R -- marked impairment in social interaction, poor languagge development and/or idiosyncratic use of language, and an obsessive need for sameness, ritualistic and perseverative behaviors? 

It's interesting that heroin, casomorphin and gluteomorphin are associated with increased dynorphin levels in the central nervous system. Are you tying that to the occurrence of sensory hyper/hypo-sensitivities in the first article?

You're a creative thinker, but you haven't built a case for a biochemical or metabolic etiology for autism spectrum disorders.


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## elvis2010

Introvertigo said:


> The first article noted an association between dynorphin injection in the spinal cord and symptoms of sensory hyper/hyposensitivities. Sensory perception/processing disturbances are frequently, but not always associated with autism. I do not see a causal relationship.


It is hypersensitivity not hypo. Every autistic I have seen has sensory issues. They all have excess glutamate stimulating the NMDA receptor. 



Introvertigo said:


> What about the classic triad of symptomatology described in the DSM IV/R -- marked impairment in social interaction


And social has to be psychological, right? It would make sense to think it would be, but it is not.

Autism: Oxytocin improves social behavior of patients, study finds

The most important sentence, "Prior to the inhalations, plasma oxytocin levels were very low, but they rose after an intake of the hormone."

And why were they low?

Morphine tolerance and inhibition of oxytocin secretion by kappa-opioids acting on the rat neurohypophysis.

"Thus two distinct opioid mechanisms regulate oxytocin secretion. Both ,mu- and
K-agonists act centrally to inhibit the activity of oxytocin neurones but only K-agonists
(and not /t-agonists) act at the secretory terminals."

So casomorphin and k-agonists (dynorphin) inhibit oxytocin, but dynorphin is more potent. 



Introvertigo said:


> poor language development


How well can language develop properly when you have hearing hypersensitivity issues and tinnitus?

Neuroprotective Drug Therapy: A Medical and Pharma... [Int Tinnitus J. 1997] - PubMed result

Low-dose, long-term caroverine administration atte... [Acta Otolaryngol. 2006] - PubMed result

There are glutamate/NMDA receptors in the ears.

And then there is that MK801 popping up again. 

NMDA receptor blockage protects against permanent ... [Hear Res. 2001] - PubMed result



Introvertigo said:


> and an obsessive need for sameness, ritualistic and perseverative behaviors?


That is exactly what you would expect to see with increased glutamate and decreased oxytocin, OCD type behaviors. Oxytocin calms the nervous system and excess glutamate causes it to go wild.

The stimming behavior is exactly what you expect to see with excessive glutamate. Caffeine causes an increase in glutamate levels. That is partially how it works. If you look at a classroom full of college kids sucking down coffee, half of them will be stimming (moving hands, shaking legs, scratching their head, biting their nails ETC) Stimming is a way to calm the nervous system, and it can increase oxytocin. 

DSM IV is good at listing symptoms, but it doesn't do much with regards to causation.

Once I understood the mechanism and chemistry involved, I could predict behavior and symptoms. I expected some of these autsitc kids to exhibit their allodynia in the form of migraine headaches/ migraine equivalents, and they did.

This isn't to say that dynorphin is the sole cause of autism. Anything that increases glutamate and lowers oxytocin could cause some of these symptoms and behaviors, but dynorphin has to be a huge player in a lot of autistics. It just fits too well.


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## ginnyisdacoolest

I'm an INTP with Asperger's syndrome (so you can imagine how babyish my Fe can be at times), and I've also suffered from anxiety, which in turn led to depression because I felt like I would never be able to achieve anything with my anxiety holding me back. Nowadays I don't get nearly as many panic attacks; I do get a sort of low-level paranoia when I'm around other people (which is probably my Ne-Fe running off with me), which can spike up when I'm stressed.


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## redmanXNTP

I've thought about this for some time. I'm INTP, ADHD (inattentive), bipolar2, and come from an alcoholic family. 

If you make a list of the classic and most common traits/symptoms of those things, there is remarkable overlap. For example, people from alcoholic families tend to be closed off emotionally and reluctant to communicate feelings, which is a trait shared with INTP. The introversion in INTP coincides very much with the down-swings/depression of bipolar2. I happen to believe that there are aspects of bipolar2 that resemble ADHD, to the point where I wonder whether the two things could be regarded as distinct. I often get lost in thought, to the point where I'll tune out socially, which is classic both in INTP and ADHD; the other two likewise interact in a diminished level of concentration on tasks or concepts which are no longer new. It's quite the Gordion Knot of traits. 

Anyway, I think that there are likely going to be stronger/weaker correlations between MBTI and psychiatric diagnoses (isn't that the way the world tends to work?), but I doubt that that would be to the point where one is predictive of the other beyond merely anecdotal evidence.


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## lolthevoidlol

any correlation between INTJ and massive depression? maybe GAD?


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## Epimer

redmanINTP said:


> I've thought about this for some time. I'm INTP, ADHD (inattentive), bipolar2, and come from an alcoholic family.
> 
> Anyway, I think that there are likely going to be stronger/weaker correlations between MBTI and psychiatric diagnoses (isn't that the way the world tends to work?), but I doubt that that would be to the point where one is predictive of the other beyond merely anecdotal evidence.


OCD, ADHD (mainly inattentive) and INTP.


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## Epimer

Epimer said:


> OCD, ADHD (mainly inattentive) and INTP.


But as a scientist I am not suggesting a correlation based on anecdotal evidence.


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## KC

Wow, you NT's talk real funny. I don't get a single word said...


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## StandingTiger

KC Tan said:


> Wow, you NT's talk real funny. I don't get a single word said...


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## Katherine

hziegel said:


> I think it's very possible that some types are more likely to be _misdiagnosed _with certain disorders. Actual mental illnesses and personality type don't seem to have a strong correlation, but there are many people out there being medicated for disorders that they show mild symptoms of but don't actually have. I know people who are very creative and imaginative (maybe xSFP types) who are forced to be medicated for delusions, and many people who are very high energy and easily excited (strong extroverts) who are medicated for ADHD and bipolar. I imagine most of these people have some sort of background that exaggerates their natural tendencies. I myself have been forced on bipolar and anti-anxiety medication because I couldn't handle living with my abusive-neglectful family. The doctors insisted that I had a disorder that made me feel upset and frustrated all the time, when really it was my parents.


I agree that this kind of thing happens a lot. When parents are undiagnosed sufferers of PTSD and they relive their terrors at home, naturally that forces family members especially children to maladapt.. like at school, in public. Of course. Makes sense.


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## widdlewiddle

I have noticed trends...INTJ's tend to be schizo, ENTP's tend toward narcissism, and most everyone that has been tested has been high in either schizo, narcissism, or borderline disorders. I am INFP and I am borderline. So that matches the NF's with Axis II disorders theory.


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## widdlewiddle

I have also noticed a correlation between PTSD turning into Borderline Personality Disorder.


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## elvis2010

childofheaven said:


> I have noticed trends...INTJ's tend to be schizo.


LOL. As soon as I read what schizoid was, I was like, "That is INTJ."



childofheaven said:


> ENTP's tend toward narcissism


 I agree, and ENTJs tend towards this too.

I can't say this is true for all ISFJs but avoidant personality disorder fits for some.

An ESTP in the grip certainly could meet the criteria for paranoia.


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## Kerr

This is an interesting thread. My mom had Borderline Personality Disorder (she died this year) and was an ENFP from the myer briggs test I found while cleaning her house after she died. I would never say all ENFP personality types are also Borderlines, but I can see how the Borderline would fall into that catagory.

I'm an ENFJ. I've had more anxiety and depression issues than anything else. I definitely have some PTSD issues as well that seems an inevitability when raised in mental illness. But it's just one of those things where I try to identify it while it's happening and say to myself 'that was then, this is now. I am safe." I think it's the J part of my personality from a younger age that helped build a way out of the land of ambiguity and crazy. 

Also enjoyed reading up on the posts about Autism. My eldest son is high on the spectrum. The gluten free Casiene free diet worked wonders with him. I'm very gluten intolerant as well. I never understood as a high schooler why beer made me feel like I'd die of a heart attack, but now I get it. I have probably always been gluten intolerant and so are my kids. The youngest two have not been vaccinated and they have developed much more normally. There's more than 250mcg of aluminum in one DTAP vaccine and that's more than the CDC recommends for a child's overall blood system. Then they shoot them with it 4 times before the age of 1. It's disturbing.

Not sure about my son's personality type. He's definitely an I and an FJ, though I can't tell if he's an N or S.


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## OldManRivers

JJMTBC said:


> I am referring to Disorders of Mental Illness as outlined in the DSM-IV-TR.
> 
> I'm sure there are many theories and perhaps some existing publications, but what do people on this site think?
> I'm really good with the Mental Illness topic, but not some much with the MBTI topic, that's where I need help.
> 
> But, with my little knowledge, I think that Axis II Personality Disorders are more likely to be linked with NTs and NFs.
> 
> As for Axis I Disorders, maybe concerning Schizophrenia, there is a link between the sensing and thinking functions.
> 
> I don't know, just some thoughts!


This is so wrong. Are you an MD, with psych training? A clinical psychologist duly licensed and supervised? If not, then you are not good at mental disorders. You are labeling people as prone to serious life-changing illness out of ignorance and maybe vanity.
There is absolutely no correlation between mental illness and the MB type - MB has no real physical component - it is a purely intellectual construction that has serious questions. 

I worked in the mental health field. Those were my clients. To belittle their suffering by suggesting that there was a personality causal factor is unspeakable.

Where do these silly ideas ccome from?


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## OldManRivers

widdlewiddle said:


> I have noticed trends...INTJ's tend to be schizo, ENTP's tend toward narcissism, and most everyone that has been tested has been high in either schizo, narcissism, or borderline disorders. I am INFP and I am borderline. So that matches the NF's with Axis II disorders theory.


Please show your data- there is a very good publication in that - if you have studies, stats, - otherwise you are slandering people for your intertainment. This is so wrong - By the way, what the hell is schizo? So you - one data point - creates a correlation? No a chance.


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## JJMTBC

OldManRivers said:


> This is so wrong. Are you an MD, with psych training? A clinical psychologist duly licensed and supervised? If not, then you are not good at mental disorders. You are labeling people as prone to serious life-changing illness out of ignorance and maybe vanity.
> There is absolutely no correlation between mental illness and the MB type - MB has no real physical component - it is a purely intellectual construction that has serious questions.
> 
> I worked in the mental health field. Those were my clients. To belittle their suffering by suggesting that there was a personality causal factor is unspeakable.
> 
> Where do these silly ideas ccome from?


Actually, I do currently work in the mental health field and I do have the necessary certification, training and supervision. I have worked in a major psychiatric facility in Los Angeles on a forensic unit and LPS unit and I now provide treatment at a clinic in a different state. These are my clients right now. I attend treatment meetings and lead group and individual therapy on a regular basis. My original post was never meant to "belittle" anyone and I'm sorry to observe your tendency for negativity. 
And I don't quite see the "belittle" connection to be frank, as what I wrote did not imply that individuals with nf or nt functions are prone to any sort or mental health variance. Which is what you have indicated as your problem with my post. I was simply pointing out that there may possibly be a connection between certain MB cognitive functions and certain DSM disorders, post diagnosis. In other words, just because someone has a certain MB cognitive function does not mean that they are more likely for a particular diagnosis. I never implied anything causal, so I am a little taken aback by your reply that you read into it so deeply and negatively- and you want to discuss "ignorance"? think a little more before you write. 

Back to my original post: Concerning personality disorders in particular- I mean- how is a _personality __disorder un_associated with p_ersonality function?
_
I have simply observed a trend in MB functions in individuals already diagnosed and I simply brought it forward for discussion. I'm sorry you selected to feel offense. And I'd like to see your data that refutes my observations. You claim there is no correlation- let's see your data that supports your statements. 
What's your training and licensure? 



What is so offensive about an individuals MBTI classification and the associated tendencies for cognitive function? I'm not offended by mine- and I know that I have certain tendencies associated with my type- as everyone else on this sight- why else would we be here discussing it?


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## burstecho

Does telling someone my personality type to a trained mental health professional give away a truth to my disorder?

Do intp's go schizo under extreme trauma? Or am I am intp because I am undiagnosed schizo?
Should I be proud to be an intp or embarrassed?

Can I change my personality type through cognitive behavior therapy?

Can extreme trauma cause my personality type to change?

Can you condition an individual to become a specific personality type?

I am new to all this personality stuff, none of these questions are meant to offend but to clarify my confusions.
Thank you for your time.


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## Monsieur Melancholy

Well I think external circumstances in one's life contribute greatly to the personality type one ends up developing, and the same external circumstances can contribute to their mental health condition.

Basically, you don't get mentally ill because you're a certain type and you're not a certain type because you're mentally ill. The two take place together.


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## Peter

CGonerko said:


> @ Peter, as you say, psychological problems come from one's experiences; any thoughts on where personality types originate from/why an individual has the particular dominant functions he does?


Personality type, in my opinion, comes from how the brain is hard-wired and probably also chemical signaling (hormones) are a relevant part.

As the cognitive functions are functions of the whole system (meaning the brain isn't split up into different areas where each area performs a specific function), the architecture of the whole brain (and body actually) are what cause the preferences for certain cognitive functions. If you have kids or work with babies, you know you can notice differences between babies pretty much from the day they´re born. (and if you´re a mother, you probably have noticed differences in behavior even before they were born.)

*If personality type would come from experience, all babies should be exactly the same in the beginning and that's just not the case.*

How exactly each preference is caused,... that would require somebody with a lot more knowledge than me on this subject to figure out (I don't think anyone has ever tried to really figure this out.) But an example I thought of is the F preference. Feelings in the body are caused by the brain, meaning that the body is actually part of the communication paths of the brain. A brain with an F preference will use those communication paths much more than a brain with a T preference. It could be that it's simply because in a person with an F preference the brain has many more connections with the body.


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## Cyxx

I don't understand some of the terminology thrown around in this thread. How is “schizo” being used here? Is it short for schizophrenia? If that's the case, I don't understand how it could possibly be correlated to personality. Schizophrenia isn't a personality disorder. It's a mental illness. My mother is schizophrenic. I couldn't even begin to tell you what her MB type might have been because everything about her has been eaten alive by the delusions and paranoia of a brain that doesn't know how to process information for a sensible outcome.

Or is “schizo” being used here to define the guy in your office who thinks the boss is out to get him? Unless he tells you that the boss is the head of a secret organization that was established by the ancient Aztecs, who now live on Mars, and is out to get him because he's discovered their plot to take over world, “schizo” just doesn't fit.

Autism has been mentioned repeatedly here. Again, autism is not a personality disorder. It no doubt impacts a person's personality, but I can't imagine it stems from it.

When I took an autism test online just for kicks, my result was kissing the low end of the spectrum. Am I autistic? Um, no. I'm an INTP who's 'I' is super massive. I think other people are great in theory, not so much in practice. Will I go out of my way to avoid you? Yes, yes I will. Your talking and breathing and existing in my space is bothersome. As you can tell, I'm a blast at parties.

Which leads into my next point. I actually _am_ a blast at parties. As severe as my introversion is, I'm smart enough to be able to exhibit the proper social cues to put people at ease and prove myself to be “fun”. I don't like to, but I can pull up by big girl britches and do what needs done. Which is part of what differentiates me from someone who actually has autism. They can't get around their roadblock.

Type isn't set in stone. The human mind is fluid. We may all have certain natural temperaments, but they aren't boundaries that cannot be crossed. Mental illnesses are caused by jacked up brain biology, creating boundaries that are much more concrete. If you're going to type mentally ill people, how do you know if you're typing the person, or the mental illness? If mental illness Y exhibits exaggerated symptoms correlating with trait X, how do you get around that to prove whether or not this person's base falls into the category of X? Maybe my mother was a very sensible, productive INTJ before she fell prey to her brain's biology? I can't say because I didn't know her before.

It seems bizarre to me that it's become commonplace to pathologize practically every aspect of human behavior. If you're too introverted or extroverted, too thinking or feeling, there's probably something wrong with you. Alas! Have no fear! There's a med that can fix you, putting you on the straight and narrow path that makes us all feel comfortable. 

And to clear up any confusion on my own terminology, I think of personality disorders as being thought based and responsive to therapy more so than to meds. Mental illnesses have some sort of biological component that can't be thought around.


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## muffleupagus

Meowww said:


> I'm an ENTP with borderline personality disorder and social anxiety.
> 
> That completely goes against stereotypes I'm sure!


Same here. The social anxiety waxes and wanes.

Remember, borderline just means beyond a decent description afforded by professional dumdums. They can't see us.


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## phantom_ecstasy

I have severe social anxiety and depression as well as possible ADD and BPD. My mom is an XSFJ with generalized anxiety disorder and I have a close ISFP friend with bipolar disorder. It's hard to tell if she's actually ISFP though because she takes strong anti-psychotics. My brother is an ISTJ with a mild case of Aspergers.


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## starryskies

I think it would be really interesting to look at proper research into this area.

Personally as INFP I have had depression and anxiety on and off my whole life and been medicated for 6 years of my childhood.

Stereotypes would be:

INTP - Schizotypal personality

ISFP, ISFJ & INFJ - Dependent personality

ISTJ, ENTJ, ESFJ - Compulsive personality

INTJ, ENFJ - Narcissistic personality

INFP - Avoidant personality

ISTP - Negativistic personality

ENTP, ESTP - Antisocial personality

ENFP, ESFP - Histrionic personality

ESTJ - Sadistic personality

I dont think half of these are true but I can relate to my own which is Avoidant personality - definitely sounds like INFP in some ways, but Sadistic personality? I don't think that is correlated to MBTI! Again not my views just stereotypes from the internets.


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## starryskies

Cyxx said:


> I don't understand some of the terminology thrown around in this thread. How is “schizo” being used here? Is it short for schizophrenia? If that's the case, I don't understand how it could possibly be correlated to personality. Schizophrenia isn't a personality disorder. It's a mental illness. My mother is schizophrenic. I couldn't even begin to tell you what her MB type might have been because everything about her has been eaten alive by the delusions and paranoia of a brain that doesn't know how to process information for a sensible outcome.
> 
> Or is “schizo” being used here to define the guy in your office who thinks the boss is out to get him? Unless he tells you that the boss is the head of a secret organization that was established by the ancient Aztecs, who now live on Mars, and is out to get him because he's discovered their plot to take over world, “schizo” just doesn't fit.
> 
> I'm pretty sure the people using "schizo" are referring to schizotypal personality disorder which is very different from schizophrenia.


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## peoplesayimanahole

I'm an ENTP with ADHD combination type. My mother is an ENFP suffering from depression. My brother I've struggled a lot with typing I used to think he's an ENTP but I think he's also an ENFP and he suffers from bi-polar the one with the manic episodes.


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## Van Meter

I think mental illness is grossly misunderstood and overblown in the current society. Pharmaceutical reps buying a lot of doctors out of their intellect doesn't help matters either. Many of them don't even recommend therapy or inquire into eating/sleep/exercise habits, which are all absolutely fundamental to a person's well being. Instead they just hand out drugs like candy and expect a cure to directly follow. People are so quick to call other people crazy. The judgments are incredibly subjective much of the time any way, psychiatric practice used to consider homosexuality as insanity, and they sort of lumped a lot of other things in there, then now people view? Goes to show the subjectivity at work here.

/end annoyed rant


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## HelloNanna

I had 2 teachers who were so determent that I had ADHD. I don't. Never had. 

Why is people so determent that I have ADHD or ADD, just because I'm an ENFP? 
Maybe that's the reason why so many get's mis-diagnosed as ADHD, even though they're not? 

I can only talk from my country's point of view, but a lot of Danish children get misdiagnosed as ADHD, and the medication doing more harm than good. I like this topic, since it question what I've been questioning a lot in a few years. Just like thread-starter said, some illnesses can be found in some specific personalities, but what if the doctors actually misjudge based on precisely that matter - personality traits? It's quite scary.


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## infpwoman

I'm INFP and schizophrenic. I was relieved when I found out that I was INFP because at least some of my personality that I thought was schizophrenia is actually just part of my natural personality type.


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## theredpanda

I've heard entps are most likely to be sociopaths, or have antisocial personality disorder.


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## CGonerko

infpwoman said:


> I'm INFP and schizophrenic. I was relieved when I found out that I was INFP because at least some of my personality that I thought was schizophrenia is actually just part of my natural personality type.


I'm INFP too. I know a family friend who has schizophrenia and I would like to learn more about it. I'm curious which INFP personality trait(s) you initially thought were due to schizophrenia?


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## Planisphere

http://personalitycafe.com/articles/25205-dominant-tertiary-loops-common-personality-disorders.html

Just in case anyone missed it the first time.

Also, I'm occasionally (or always) schizotypal by this theory. A trained therapist backed this up when I last went for a visit. That somewhat reinforces my self-identification as an INTP.


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## lunai

The only mental problem I am aware of is social anxiety, which may be a lifelong problem for me, as it goes back to early childhood. I think I may also have some ADHD, though I'm not sure if this is truly mental disorder or just a case of poor self discipline.


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## Grandmaster Yoda

I'm supposed to have Aspergers, but I'd be more recognized for my selective mutism. In general it's the result of anxiety other times it's because I don't feel like talking.


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## Sangmu

starryskies said:


> I think it would be really interesting to look at proper research into this area.
> 
> Personally as INFP I have had depression and anxiety on and off my whole life and been medicated for 6 years of my childhood.
> 
> Stereotypes would be:
> 
> INTP - Schizotypal personality
> 
> ISFP, ISFJ & INFJ - Dependent personality
> 
> ISTJ, ENTJ, ESFJ - Compulsive personality
> 
> INTJ, ENFJ - Narcissistic personality
> 
> INFP - Avoidant personality
> 
> ISTP - Negativistic personality
> 
> ENTP, ESTP - Antisocial personality
> 
> ENFP, ESFP - Histrionic personality
> 
> ESTJ - Sadistic personality
> 
> I dont think half of these are true but I can relate to my own which is Avoidant personality - definitely sounds like INFP in some ways, but Sadistic personality? I don't think that is correlated to MBTI! Again not my views just stereotypes from the internets.


I just love this. Esp. the association of ESTJ with sadistic personality disorder. Heh heh heh ^_^


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## aphinion

I know quite a few people who apply to this:

ENTP (myself)- Attention Deficit Disorder and possibly Panic Disorder
ENFJ- Attention Deficit Disorder and Depression
ESFP- Attention Deficit Disorder and a Learning Disability
ESTP- Obsessive Compulsive Disorder
ESFJ- Bipolar Disorder and prescription drug abuse
ISFJ- Depression, alcoholism, and general drug abuse

I'd say that if I could find any correlations between these disorders they'd be this:
-Feelers tend to suffer depression more than thinkers
-Attention Deficit Disorder is more common in intuitives and perceivers
-Sensors seem to become more easily addicted to things than intuitives


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## aphinion

theredpanda said:


> I've heard entps are most likely to be sociopaths, or have antisocial personality disorder.


My mother thinks I'm a low-level sociopath :wink:


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## monemi

aphinion said:


> I know quite a few people who apply to this:
> 
> ENTP (myself)- Attention Deficit Disorder and possibly Panic Disorder
> ENFJ- Attention Deficit Disorder and Depression
> ESFP- Attention Deficit Disorder and a Learning Disability
> *ESTP- Obsessive Compulsive Disorder*
> ESFJ- Bipolar Disorder and prescription drug abuse
> ISFJ- Depression, alcoholism, and general drug abuse
> 
> I'd say that if I could find any correlations between these disorders they'd be this:
> -Feelers tend to suffer depression more than thinkers
> -Attention Deficit Disorder is more common in intuitives and perceivers
> -Sensors seem to become more easily addicted to things than intuitives


OCD? That makes no sense for ESTP. That's all about control. ESTP are about freedom. In fact, that's kinda our problem.


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## aphinion

monemi said:


> OCD? That makes no sense for ESTP. That's all about control. ESTP are about freedom. In fact, that's kinda our problem.


According to her if something catches her focus then she cannot let it go and has to change it. Once she reorganized my kitchen at 3 am. 
However, it is entirely possible that she's lying. She tends to do that a lot. When we were seven she had me entirely convinced that she was an alien, so I haven't 100% trusted her since.


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## amongfirstslugs

I've been working with mentally ill people for a couple of months now and there is no apparent trend in type. I do see that mental illness can make someone seem Introverted...and also N, lol. But getting to know them better, their types are very varied and not correlated with any specific illness. 

Outside of work I've never met an INFx who didn't suffer from depression or anxiety of some sort.


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## Seeker

amongfirstslugs said:


> I've been working with mentally ill people for a couple of months now and there is no apparent trend in type. I do see that mental illness can make someone seem Introverted...and also N, lol. But getting to know them better, their types are very varied and not correlated with any specific illness.
> 
> Outside of work I've never met an INFx who didn't suffer from depression or anxiety of some sort.


Except that your work does not count as a study, whereas the study I posted shows that there is a correlation between various illnesses and types.

Nonetheless, it's still going to be a small percentage of each type.


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## amongfirstslugs

Seeker said:


> Except that your work does not count as a study, whereas the study I posted shows that there is a correlation between various illnesses and types.
> 
> Nonetheless, it's still going to be a small percentage of each type.


I was posting about my personal experience, as evidenced by my saying "At my work...their types are very varied and not correlated..."


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## amongfirstslugs

Although, it is my belief that there is not a general correlation, and I *was *using that particular sample size to support my belief. It's true that the study you posted analyzes a larger sample size, takes into account variables, etc. that my mere observation cannot. So, I certainly don't think my works obs "count" as a study, but if you're arguing that the study proves me wrong then I disagree.

The thing is, the DSM is ever-changing, people are commonly mistyped, and people are inappropriately diagnosed - that is why I think the data in a study like this isn't necessarily stable. Especially because a neurosis like OCD can make even an ENFP seem like an ISTJ - mental illness itself will skew personality type results. I even noted previously that people often seem 'I' and 'N' but when getting to know them and understanding their backgrounds, they are not. 

I don't believe in the correlation because mental illness is exacerbated by, triggered by and potentially even created by trauma. In other instances it is purely chemical. Functions are about a preference of thought pattern which cannot be/have yet to be traced to trauma or chemical disturbances. Mental illness is too complex in ways totally separate from Myers Briggs. There is overlap but it isn't relevant enough. 

Someone said a few pages back (I think "Entropy"?) that there could be a correlation with mental health and Enneagram, which I agree is at least more likely. But then I do think there is a correlation between function and Enneagram (though not to the degree that people believe) and if that is true, it would be part of the reason for the results. 

SO, as a whole, what seems more likely to be happening is the skewed results, the way the illness manifests, and so on. The study points out that Myers Briggs can be helpful in understanding people with mental illness, and that's true, but I think only in that considering a person's individual personality in their treatment plan will facilitate recovery. 

However, understanding is not what appears to be happening here, regardless of accuracy. It seems paradoxical to me to box people in doubly in order to understand them since that just further serves to strip them of their individual components and is ultimately a hindrance to understanding. What is the point of determining that a schizotypal person is more likely using Ti, as opposed to taking the time to understand the individual person? To me, this is not helpful, just perpetuates stereotyping and assumptions and is bothersome to me. 

I have to admit when I read the study and that IT were associated with antisocial, it seemed right to me and I can see why it seems right to others. But I think it is most likely that my kneejerk reaction is preconceived notion based on stereotype and not based on the reality, which, to me, is that any function is equally likely to be used by an antisocial personality. Or, maybe the reality is that we cannot even know...just not that ISTJs are more likely to have OCD.


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## amongfirstslugs

By the way, the bit about finding things bothersome was not directed at you in particular. And I do think it is an interesting study and appreciate that you posted it and am open to your perspective as I imagine it is very different.


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## Seeker

Well, my mom was IT, and she was anti-social. That doesn't mean that all IT's are. Just because there is a correlation doesn't mean that everyone within that type has it. If you look at the numbers in the study, you can see that it really doesn't mean that. 

I don't see how once a correlation has been empirically identified that someone can deny that there is a correlation. And if OCD makes someone seem more like an ISTJ--well, the OCD is a part of him or her--so maybe he or she is ISTJ. 

I agree that understanding the individual patient's type can help with understanding mental illness. But let's say a therapist understands the type of a patient who is possibly vulnerable to certain mental illnesses--that can also help the therapist to help the patient not to go there. 

And, yes, the individual is still very important. But frankly, I go to therapy, and I really really want my therapist to understand more about my type and how I react to things and what I need. I don't have a mental illness--and I sort of don't even like the term "mental illness" because to me that boxes people in far worse than Myers-Briggs. But I do want my therapist to understand my type.


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## aloneinmusic

Well, I've been told I have severe depression, general anxiety and I'm pretty certain I have an eating disorder too (specifically anorexia, I fit the criteria and it's taken over my life). I'm an INFJ, I'm taking a guess that borderline personality will be common within INFJs, and possibly hypochondria/health anxiety. It's really easy to overthink things when you're an INFJ but I only say I have these three because I have either been told I have them or I fit the criteria for them.


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## Jenko

What have you heard fellow friend? Im curious about the ENTPs possible mental illness tendencies, I already got a disease that make me have tendencies to a lot psi/neuro illness, and I always have been divided by thinking I probably have something and thinking its just traits of my personality combined with the hard time of the relation between the ENTPs and the rest of the world in general!


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## Harizu

xSTJs are more likely to show OCPD symptoms (OCPD, *not* OCD).
INTPs often look schizoid or Asperger-like.
Other types that look Asperger-like are ENTPs, INTJs and ISTPs.
Perceivers in general are more likely to show ADD/ADHD traits.


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## Quernus

Seeker said:


> I don't see how once a correlation has been empirically identified that someone can deny that there is a correlation.


Well, studies are often wrong, or skewed, or misinterpreted. Being "scientific" (not that this is scientific, but) does not mean being absolute, it means being critical, and it often means being open to changing your hypothesis and conclusion once new information is received. As amongfirstslugs mentioned, the DSM is *ever* changing, and how we understand mental illness is already very nuanced, and often misinformed. That study was from foreeever ago, the DSM has changed so many times since then.

And people mistype all the time too.



> And if OCD makes someone seem more like an ISTJ--well, the OCD is a part of him or her--so maybe he or she is ISTJ.


...No... lol. I don't agree that OCD is a "part" of the person's personality, because it can be treated and can essentially go away (or at least be managed so that it's a non-issue). It can develop at any age. I can't take a medication for my Fi (I wish), and I've used Fi for basically my entire life. If someone lives life as an ENFP and develops OCD at age 36, and start behaving like an ISTJ in ways, then that doesn't mean their type changes because types don't change.



> I agree that understanding the individual patient's type can help with understanding mental illness. But let's say a therapist understands the type of a patient who is possibly vulnerable to certain mental illnesses--that can also help the therapist to help the patient not to go there.


I guess. There are many other indicators (better evidenced) that make someone vulnerable to a mental illness, though, and a good therapist is going to recognize those no matter what. You can also say that if a therapist assumes that a type makes someone more likely to develop some illness, they're not thinking as clearly or broadly about other potential illnesses or predicaments that might be affecting the person. Plus what if you mistype... which happens all the time..



> And, yes, the individual is still very important. But frankly, I go to therapy, and I really really want my therapist to understand more about my type and how I react to things and what I need. I don't have a mental illness--and I sort of don't even like the term "mental illness" because to me that boxes people in far worse than Myers-Briggs. But I do want my therapist to understand my type.


Well, I would say that most people could likely benefit from counseling at some point in life... and sure, if you already know your type, that can be a great tool for self-growth. That goes for anyone, mentally ill or not. I think it gets dangerous, however, when people identify with their mental illness - so I personally think that the MBTI should be treated as a separate tool, regardless. 

*sigh* there are all sorts of models of Psychotherapy and Psychology, different "theories" and schools of thought (Humanistic Psych, Gestalt, Structuralism, Behaviorism, etc etc). I'm not qualified to say one way is better or another --- though I do have some opinions on the matter. So all of this is just kinda silly speculation, I think. Overall, I don't think the term "mental illness" boxes people in very much - I think it is the social stigma that does that, and the lack of understanding about the anatomy of a mental illness. That's not to say that there aren't a lot of misdiagnoses, or that diagnoses are always properly handled, but the concept of mental illness itself isn't inherently restricting in my opinion - since the goal is to overcome it as much as possible, and identifying it provides a starting point.

So that went all over the place.


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## yiff

i dont think illnesses would only affect one certain type of person tbh


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## Seeker

INFP's, you confound me with your INFP answers. Everything is always so nebulous with you guys. Sorry, but it drives me up the wall. I don't think any study is perfect. I still say it's a close enough guide. They found a correlation. There is a correlation. It might be off by a few, but it's still there. Saying that there is a correlation is not to say that all X type will have Y mental condition nor does it mean that X types can't have Y condition. It just means that it so happens that more of A type had B condition. That's all. I don't see why that's such an issue.


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## amongfirstslugs

Seeker said:


> Well, my mom was IT, and she was anti-social. That doesn't mean that all IT's are. Just because there is a correlation doesn't mean that everyone within that type has it. If you look at the numbers in the study, you can see that it really doesn't mean that.
> 
> I don't see how once a correlation has been empirically identified that someone can deny that there is a correlation. And if OCD makes someone seem more like an ISTJ--well, the OCD is a part of him or her--so maybe he or she is ISTJ.
> 
> I agree that understanding the individual patient's type can help with understanding mental illness. But let's say a therapist understands the type of a patient who is possibly vulnerable to certain mental illnesses--that can also help the therapist to help the patient not to go there.
> 
> And, yes, the individual is still very important. But frankly, I go to therapy, and I really really want my therapist to understand more about my type and how I react to things and what I need. I don't have a mental illness--and I sort of don't even like the term "mental illness" because to me that boxes people in far worse than Myers-Briggs. But I do want my therapist to understand my type.



I don't think it means that. 

I mean to say that it's probable the data is skewed.

OCD is an illness that disrupts normal cognition and it is kind of offensive to view its effects as character attributes. It's not healthy to self identify as being one's illness, or correct to see others as being their illness even in part. Believing someone's OCD makes them ISTJ would be a gross misunderstanding of both Si and the illness itself. 

It's understandable that you want your therapist to know your type and I think that's a perfectly good and reasonable desire. It's how you identify and it would benefit your therapist to understand you as a whole. I just don't think it would directly link to a particular mental health illness. 

I'm not sure, though, I think we may be on different pages here.


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## amongfirstslugs

Seeker said:


> INFP's, you confound me with your INFP answers. Everything is always so nebulous with you guys. Sorry, but it drives me up the wall.


Is is possible you enjoy being driven up the wall?


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## Quernus

Seeker said:


> INFP's, you confound me with your INFP answers. Everything is always so nebulous with you guys. Sorry, but it drives me up the wall. I don't think any study is perfect. I still say it's a close enough guide. They found a correlation. There is a correlation. It might be off by a few, but it's still there. Saying that there is a correlation is not to say that all X type will have Y mental condition nor does it mean that X types can't have Y condition. It just means that it so happens that more of A type had B condition. That's all. I don't see why that's such an issue.


There are so many studies that can find so many correlations between anything at all. That isn't to say that NO studies are relevant, but in this particular case, I think we should consider that there have been MANY changes and developments to how mental illness is understood, researched, and treated. That study was like in 1992 or something, and that's relevant in this particular field of study.

I don't see how anything I said was nebulous, can you point something out in particular? I'd be happy to clarify what I meant. 

I don't see how being an INFP has anything to do with this. Perhaps another example of MBTI being misused.


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## Seeker

amongfirstslugs said:


> Is is possible you enjoy being driven up the wall?


No


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## missalaynius

I'm ISFP diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder, major depression, and anxiety disorder. I found that my enneagram, 4w5 was extremely spot on with BPD diagnostic requirements, but the only relation I've found with ISFP is what I read about some life stage concerned with whatever (I'm very new to this) that talked about black and white thinking, which goes by the name of splitting as a trait of BPD. DUNNO. BPD is taboo when trying to receive treatment, therapy, help, etc. and a lot of times, even when diagnosed, professionals just told me to get over it and that the term itself is used to describe dramatic assholes basically.


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## xForgottenOne

I think it's easier to link mental illnesses with cognitive functions? I think social anxiety is really Fe-ish, for example.


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## raenyx

I'm an INFJ with ADHD. I usually introduce myself as "an INFJ, but a really shitty one". 

In my experience, ADHD tends to correlate with extroverted perceiving - Se in the sense of needing stimulation and acting before thinking, Ne in the constant need for new experiences and inability to focus - but I don't think it affects what type you are, but rather how your functions develop. I have a very unhealthy relationship with my Se because ADHD has thrown it into the spotlight. As a child I likely would have been typed at first glance as an ESTP - same functions, opposite order. 

But I'm at my best and happiest when I act like an INFJ. When I ignore my ADHD's attraction towards mindless stimulation and focus on my empathy and intuition, I not only feel more fulfilled but I get more work done and communicate more effectively. My goals and in life are in tune with an INFJ's, I just have difficulty achieving them. I'm a poorly-developed INFJ, but an INFJ nonetheless.


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## sirensoliloquies

to interject - I am a twenty one year old female entering the mental health field. my type is INFJ, and I am a recovering addict with nearly four years sober. during my addiction, my profound drug use triggered a psychotic episode that lasted nearly eight months. after (finally) seeking treatment, I discovered that the psychotic episode was the result of my predisposition to schizophrenia spectrum disorders. (to clarify, it was the combination of LSD/hallucinogens, marijuana, and amphetamines + meth that triggered my psychosis). after two months into my psychosis, I stopped using all drugs with hopes that would eliminate the hell I was immersed in. sadly, it didn't. when I was admitted to a psychiatric inpatient facility, I was given the diagnosis of schizoaffective disorder - bipolar type. (this was in 2011). my differential diagnosis is bipolar disorder with psychotic symptoms/tendencies. (as in the DSM V they took out schizoaffective disorder). I was also diagnosed with (the psychiatric term for) drug addiction, and anorexia nervosa - restricting type. (those are the ones I remember.) 

I haven't done the correct research regarding this correlation; I am simply providing my story for input.

kalica calliope ॐ


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## immortalcats

I'm INFJ and have had a lot of experience with mental illness, I have had anorexia nervosa b/p subtype for 5 years along with psychotic depressive disorder, panic disorder and PTSD...


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## The Doctor

I'm an INTP and, yes, I have ADD. I've always been a little skeptical about whether ADD is really a disorder; I think it could very well be normal personality traits that just happen to clash with the way society likes to have things. I can't focus on people when they're talking, forget homework all the time, space out... All of that is a disaster in school but does that mean there's something wrong with me? Either way, I lack things that society expects and even requires a person to have in a school setting, and medication does help me do much more well in school.


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## myjazz

It's interesting that the in depthness of Psychological types was correlated with mental illness and used for such.

I believe that a lot of this "typing" people with whatever the Disorder of the day is, has gone way overboard. People become associated and cling onto the "disorder" , Instead of remembering the reason why one seeks to come to the conclusion of what might need's to be fixed instead most people just cling onto the "disorder" 
Sure in a way that is a good thing because we must accept whats wrong or whatever the case may be. Yes it is part of whomever it may be but as i mentioned most people don't see it that way. They become this "disorder" instead of infusing the situation into who they are.


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## NurseCat

INFJ with paranoid personality disorder. I sincerely doubt there's a correlation.


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## Gman1

immortalcats said:


> I'm INFJ and have had a lot of experience with mental illness, I have had anorexia nervosa b/p subtype for 5 years along with psychotic depressive disorder, panic disorder and PTSD...


This is gonna sound cheap, but I hope you're doing much better now.


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## Tetsuo Shima

INFP with Aspergers. I guess most people with Aspergers are thought of as being IxTxs (especially IxTPs) because of the whole stereotype that they don't have feelings.


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## Gman1

Seeker said:


> INFP's, you confound me with your INFP answers. Everything is always so nebulous with you guys. Sorry, but it drives me up the wall. I don't think any study is perfect. I still say it's a close enough guide. They found a correlation. There is a correlation. It might be off by a few, but it's still there. Saying that there is a correlation is not to say that all X type will have Y mental condition nor does it mean that X types can't have Y condition. It just means that it so happens that more of A type had B condition. That's all. I don't see why that's such an issue.


So much for Fe...


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## Gman1

melisanddre said:


> anyone can have mental illness, regardless of type.


yes


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## dracula

ENTP with ADHD, I've heard that it's actually quite typical. I've read claims about ENTPs often being misdiagnosed with ADHD but I'd rather believe in them co-existing. Anyway, it's become such a big part of my personality that the symptoms come out as my "natural" behavior, meaning that it took ages for me to get diagnosed. I still tested a bit and the medication I got didn't really change my being an ENTP much even though it balanced me out quite a lot. 

I don't believe in a person being born with one personality type but rather think it's shaped in one's childhood - this could explain the prevalence of some disorders amongst some types, since for example my condition has limited my ability to remember some things despite me having a very good memory in some sense. I also think that I have a strong preference for Ne since I perceive way too much of external stimuli. This is only one explanation though and possibly a flawed one since I don't believe any condition being strictly linked to extraversion or introversion.


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## Gman1

Xahhakatar said:


> INFP with Aspergers. I guess most people with Aspergers are thought of as being IxTxs (especially IxTPs) because of the whole stereotype that they don't have feelings.


Is that diagnosis official? I only ask because it is extremely uncommon for someone on the Asperger scale to have highly developed Feeling function.


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## Dragunov

ISTP With AD/HD.


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## Tetsuo Shima

agwood said:


> Is that diagnosis official? I only ask because it is extremely uncommon for someone on the Asperger scale to have highly developed Feeling function.


I've been diagnosed with it since I was 3, but I think I only have it because I was vaccinated when I was 15 weeks old.


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## PaladinX

agwood said:


> Is that diagnosis official? I only ask because it is extremely uncommon for someone on the Asperger scale to have highly developed Feeling function.


only if you rely on stereotypes. As an MBTI certified practitioner, professionally diagnosed aspie, and prominent figure in my local ASD community, I disagree with the above statement.


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## PaladinX

Xahhakatar said:


> I've been diagnosed with it since I was 3, but I think I only have it because I was vaccinated when I was 15 weeks old.


Autism is not caused by vaccines. The guy that came up with this idea lost his medical license for fudging numbers to support this claim that he made up.


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## Tetsuo Shima

PaladinX said:


> Autism is not caused by vaccines. The guy that came up with this idea lost his medical license for fudging numbers to support this claim that he made up.


So says the government.


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## Gman1

PaladinX said:


> only if you rely on stereotypes. As an MBTI certified practitioner, professionally diagnosed aspie, and prominent figure in my local ASD community, I disagree with the above statement.


Not stereotypes. Scientific research has pointed to I_TP. If you can find anything that suggests otherwise, please share it. X)


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## PaladinX

agwood said:


> Not stereotypes. Scientific research has pointed to I_TP. If you can find anything that suggests otherwise, please share it. X)


There are a number of stereotypes that are in the process of being countered. For example, there is one study that will be published soon that squashes the idea that people with ASD can't or have a lot of difficulty understanding figurative language. In any case please cite your scientific research that concludes that aspires are IxTP.


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## Gman1

PaladinX said:


> There are a number of stereotypes that are in the process of being countered. For example, there is one study that will be published soon that squashes the idea that people with ASD can't or have a lot of difficulty understanding figurative language. In any case please cite your scientific research that concludes that aspires are IxTP.


By all means. References to several studies are available in this articles: INTPs and Asperger's Syndrome | Oddly Developed Types
I think to see the actual articles themselves, payment or subscription would be required (unless you are a Uni student like myself  ).

Further information was found here (the link was provided earlier on in this thread):
http://www.capt.org/research/article/JPT_Vol66_1206.pdf


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## PaladinX

agwood said:


> By all means. References to several studies are available in this articles: INTPs and Asperger's Syndrome | Oddly Developed Types
> I think to see the actual articles themselves, payment or subscription would be required (unless you are a Uni student like myself  ).
> 
> Further information was found here (the link was provided earlier on in this thread):
> http://www.capt.org/research/article/JPT_Vol66_1206.pdf


Interesting. I'll have a gander.

Personally, I think that it's more likely that people with I and T preferences will be diagnosed.

I have seen enough evidence of contrary behaviours to what the scientific and medical community prescribe. Too many times I've seen inaccurate labels applied and mistreatment to people with ASD by those who are trained to support them. It really bothers me. There has been a lot of unnecessary suffering because of these kinds of things. I instantly get my back up on this kind of topic. There is a saying in the ASD community that when you've met one aspie, you've met one aspie.

It's because of these misconceptions that I've entered into academia, so that I can undermine these and other stereotypes for persons with neurodevelopmental and mental health issues.


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## Gman1

PaladinX said:


> Interesting. I'll have a gander.
> 
> Personally, I think that it's more likely that people with I and T preferences will be diagnosed.
> 
> I have seen enough evidence of contrary behaviours to what the scientific and medical community prescribe. Too many times I've seen inaccurate labels applied and mistreatment to people with ASD by those who are trained to support them. It really bothers me. There has been a lot of unnecessary suffering because of these kinds of things. I instantly get my back up on this kind of topic. There is a saying in the ASD community that when you've met one aspie, you've met one aspie.
> 
> It's because of these misconceptions that I've entered into academia, so that I can undermine these and other stereotypes for persons with neurodevelopmental and mental health issues.


What has shocked and upset me the most in recent years are the emerging studies which show that a high number of people on the autism spectrum have actually considered suicide, with some succeeding. 
The reason is because they are in despair over the inability to perform 'ordinary' social communication.
It's heartbreaking. 

I always believed autistic people were too 'disconnected' to be able to think like this or to even care, but apparently they do. They want a normal life just like everyone else.
That is why I would do everything I could to protect one if I knew one in real life.


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## HolyMoony

Arzazar Szubrasznikarazar said:


> Can people with mental disorders be even diagnosed for MBTI type? Symptoms will heavily interfere with test questions. Average reliability is already bad. I think that mental disorder/illness pretty much kills it altogether.


I'm INFP (FiNeSiTe) but if you don't know me well and try to type me from a random 5 minute video (like typologist do) you would probably type me as ISTJ because of my autism (lots of intuitive autistic people are mistyped as ISTJ as if ISTJ is the default type for autism). I use monotonous voice (due to autism) which is correlated with high Te in vultology/visual typing but my Te is trash irl. In addition, schizophrenic people get mistyped as Ne dom most of the time even if their real type is sensor.


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## HolyMoony

linatet said:


> Well, we created a mbti survey in an autism community. Autism is not a mental illness, but it's interesting anyway. More than 200 people participated and more than 70% were IN__!


Autistic INFP here 🖐


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## sandras

Have you ever heard "*Disorders of Mental Illness" for an ESTJ/ENTJ? I am really sure usually ESTJ or ENTJ are devoid of mental illness(es).*


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## sandras

My INTJ who was a DEVIL caused a healthy ESTJ like me to have a mental illness(es)


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## sandras

What kind of human being was that, causing my life until like this. I am almost suiciding so many times. Not even worthy to be called human being, I call him/them a creature/creatures. Anything worse than that?


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## sandras

DEVIL.


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## Robopop

sandras said:


> Have you ever heard "*Disorders of Mental Illness" for an ESTJ/ENTJ? I am really sure usually ESTJ or ENTJ are devoid of mental illness(es).*


The thing is Extroverted Thinking encourages fitting into what society considers as normal, well-adjusted behaviors.

Most ExTJs want to become the embodiment of a generally considered competent person who relies on no one else to take care of them, they want to prove themselves by way of objective standards.

IxTPs types have this independent streak too but have a harder time organizing their outward lives and fitting into rigid social structures, thus more likely to be considered "faulty".


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## PaVeles

sea cucumber said:


> see if you meet me then Ill confuse you by not being OCD at all. I suffer very badly from axietey and neurotisim, I had de[ression but thank fully nothing to serose


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## PaVeles

sea cucumber said:


> see if you meet me then Ill confuse you by not being OCD at all. I suffer very badly from axietey and neurotisim, I had de[ression but thank fully nothing to serose


I agree. I'm INFJ and no OCD. Mild depressions is also the most re-occurring problem for me.


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## mia-me

There was a study done many years ago, that correlated MBTI dichotomies with DSM-III personality disorders. The dichotomies that significantly correlated were I, N, T and P and a combination of NTP.


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