# Question to men who use online dating sites?



## TragicallyHip (Jan 6, 2012)

Personally, I would want to know upfront anything that might make you unique -- deafness included. My advice is to include it in your profile, but in a light-hearted way that also assuages potential match's concerns. 

And that goes for the rest of your profile and emails too -- be fun! Be flirty! Try to avoid sounding passive (which is different than nice) or bitter. (BTW, I did not read your profile rewrite because the first couple of sentences did have a whiney twinge to them. We ALL hate writing the profiles, we all hate the online dating thing, cowboy up! (And I say this with love!))

I love a banterish opening email. Doesn't have to be long, but just a little cheeky, flirty thing that shows you have a playful side (I know you are looking for a deeper connection, simply enjoying someone's company is a baseline requirement) and read the profile.

Finally, keep in mind that, in general, the window of attraction for females is much narrower than it is for men. As you noted, you are open to LOTS of different types of girls. It's like 31 flavors, you want to try them all! Whereas for women, it's more like, if they don't have strawberry peppermint, then I'll go home and churn my own. (Note subtle double entendre.)

For example, I do not actually get that many emails, but I still turn down most of the ones I get. (That is, yes, some women get lots of emails and standing out is part of the problem. But, more likely, there are other factors in play as well.) And, in the interest of full disclosure (please don't judge!), I look at pictures, relationship status, height, job/education, and THEN read the profile. Which is to say that by the time I get to the email, the potential suitor will have to clear those filters first.

But, keep in mind that I am in a different age bracket. At 47, many of the things a young women is looking for (presumably to find a suitable mate to breed with) no longer apply, so my criteria is biased to my situation. 

Overall, I applaud you for taking risks -- both on the dating site and here. It's never easy to ask for help, much less constructive criticism. I was also impressed that you did not get defensive. It's frustrating when people ask for a critique and then want to defend their original stance to the point where it's obvious they aren't really looking for help but just to bitch.


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## kudi (Sep 27, 2011)

Its so kind all of you ladies to give such helpful advice, I've learned a thing or two myself. Thank you all. 

The dating game is tough, its emotionally and financially draining. Its so complex, there are many variables not including your actual message that affect whether they'll even consider you. Things like wealth, popularity, swagger, looks, intelligence, size of the dating pool, ethnicity, religion, self perceived attractiveness, political influence can and do affect a girls decision. Its not always fair and made difficult by the fact that many players think, maybe I can do better. I don't know the answers, simply do the best you can to improve the things you can change including your intro and messages. So its a great step forward, I hope you the best in your search and hope that you'll find someone that appreciates your honesty, frankness and drive to improve yourself. 



> if they don't have strawberry peppermint, then I'll go home and churn my own. (Note subtle double entendre.)


I *have* to use that in a sentence sometime. :laughing:


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## MissingLinc (Jan 20, 2012)

TragicallyHip said:


> And that goes for the rest of your profile and emails too -- be fun! Be flirty! Try to avoid sounding passive (which is different than nice) or bitter. (BTW, I did not read your profile rewrite because the first couple of sentences did have a whiney twinge to them.


Jesus Christ, I really can't win can I?

I just want to be myself, that's all. I hate playing this game, I hate being forced to act a certain way, write a certain way, present myself in a certain way and always be 100 percent happy sunshine and pink bunnies positive because any micro detraction from that means I WILL NEVER BE ACCEPTED.

I understand that's life, and the same rules apply for careers and jobs, but I still hate it. You should see my resume, which almost reads like a suicide note.

All this, and I haven't even gotten to the coffee date yet, or even a response. If I'm hosing myself before a girl even starts talking to me, I doubt I can ever reach the point where I can get her to show genuine interest in me, because it's just too easy for me to botch something. A journey to Mordor to toss the ring into the pit and save the world would be easier.

I see all kinds of people find significant others. People who are autistic, disabled, tall, short, fat, thin, pretty, ugly, who breeze in and out of relationships as naturally as a fart in the wind. But me? I don't get it it. I think my life was a mistake.

Sorry for being a downer, I'm in a bad mood and I haven't had my coffee.


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## Onomatopoeia (Nov 2, 2010)

MissingLinc said:


> I HATE dating sites. HATE THEM. They are satanic inventions that have oozed into creation from the very bowels of hell itself, forged by the hot molten lava of iniquity and perdition.
> 
> And yet, here I am. Sigh.


I quit reading after this point. So many people start their profiles with negativity (almost all saying they hate dating sites), and in my mind it sets the tone for the remainder of the profile. It makes me think that you're going to resort to negativity any time something makes you feel uncomfortable or awkward, instead of embracing it or accepting it as a challenge to tackle. It leaves me wondering, "If you hate dating sites so much, then are you here?" Rework the first lines to something a bit more positive, and you will yield more positive results.

Also, would referring to yourself as "hard of hearing" instead of "deaf" maybe work for you? Since you said you have hearing aids and don't sign, this might be easier to explain to someone who is unfamiliar with deaf culture.


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## Stephen (Jan 17, 2011)

MissingLinc said:


> While we're ripping my profile to shreds here I might as well ask another question: should I mention that I'm deaf in the profile? Or save that tiny tidbit of info for the coffee date?


I think it should be in your profile. It will filter out the people who care about such things.


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## MissingLinc (Jan 20, 2012)

Clever Waffle said:


> I quit reading after this point. So many people start their profiles with negativity (almost all saying they hate dating sites), and in my mind it sets the tone for the remainder of the profile. It makes me think that you're going to resort to negativity any time something makes you feel uncomfortable or awkward, instead of embracing it or accepting it as a challenge to tackle.


Methinks people make way too many assumptions about me based on one or two sentences in a profile.

I'll omit it, but I was hoping the humor would be appreciated or that it would help women commiserate regarding the frustration of online dating. Guess not.


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## kudi (Sep 27, 2011)

> present myself in a certain way and always be 100 percent happy sunshine and pink bunnies positive


Get some coffee and quick. Few people tolerate negativity for an extended amount of time and even fewer can handle it if its the first part of yourself you expose to them. 
Its just rule of the road, like driving on the right lane (US). Its like grease it keeps things moving smoothly, be a rebel then expect a lot of hardships. At that point you can only ask yourself is the principle important enough to you to endure that hardship.


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## MissingLinc (Jan 20, 2012)

Stephen said:


> I think it should be in your profile. It will filter out the people who care about such things.


Not going to risk it. Anything that might potentially turn off a girl is not going to be put in there. I have to be perfect, PERFECT. All smiles and happiness with nary a blemish or a hair out of place on my body, baby.


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## strawberryLola (Sep 19, 2010)

I really like how you responded to the ladies on this forum.. there is a naturalness about you when you're not over thinking, in the moment, and exposing certain vulnerabilities about yourself that makes you charming. 

Incorporate it somehow on your profile. I tend to have a bias towards those who are okay with appearing imperfect and in fact, wave it like a huge flag. It gives you a humanly vibe that's personable. 

You've already demonstrated that you can be genuine, and sound like an likeable fella on here through constructive feedback and positively responding with an open mind. Model that somehow on your profile/conversations. It seems like the less you care about what others think about you, the more attractive you sound.


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## MissingLinc (Jan 20, 2012)

strawberryLola said:


> I really like how you responded to the ladies on this forum.. there is a naturalness about you when you're not over thinking, in the moment, and exposing certain vulnerabilities about yourself that makes you charming.
> 
> Incorporate it somehow on your profile. I tend to have a bias towards those who are okay with appearing imperfect and in fact, wave it like a huge flag. It gives you a humanly vibe that's personable.
> 
> You've already demonstrated that you can be genuine, and sound like an likeable fella on here through constructive feedback and positively responding with an open mind. Model that somehow on your profile/conversations. It seems like the less you care about what others think about you, the more attractive you sound.


Thanks, I think that's why online dating to me sucks the flaming balls of the mighty African elephant.

It's not a coincidence that I have just as bad a trouble job hunting too. I have to have my resume done by a professional marketer because if I did it myself, LOL.

I can't sell myself, it's just not who I am. I can sell other people though, in fact there were times I've written resumes for others. Go figure.


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## MissingLinc (Jan 20, 2012)

strawberryLola said:


> Incorporate it somehow on your profile. I tend to have a bias towards those who are okay with appearing imperfect and in fact, wave it like a huge flag. It gives you a humanly vibe that's personable.


That's what I would LOVE to project, but it seems inappropriate to do so on a dating site. It's like I always suspected, it just isn't a good fit for me, but I don't have any other recourse. My friends are married and don't know anyone, my family doesn't know anyone, and my job is a largely male environment. Only thing left is random encounters in public, or maybe speed dating, but these environments can be tough because of my hearing loss.

The best opportunity I had was in college. OMG, so many opportunities and I kept burying myself in studies. Maybe I should just go back to school, lol.


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## strawberryLola (Sep 19, 2010)

Communicating via the internet through an impersonal medium makes it so difficult, especially when you feel pressure to perform.

Think of times when you've befriended people. There were no intentions in selling yourself. You were totally free to be who you are, even if you aren't always positive sounding, jazzy, and heel clicking, _you were still you._ There's something sweet about that. 

Key thing is be really natural and have least expectations about the whole process. That way you're more in your element and give genuine vibes.

Keep in mind also, when you feel a need to put on social masks: when it comes to dating? Screw it. What you put out, you attract similar. If you want to find someone unique, throw out all the shoulds and be proud of who you are. 

Listen to yourself and what works for _you._ I wish I had more constructive feedback. I think the philosophy of KIS really applies.


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## MissingLinc (Jan 20, 2012)

strawberryLola said:


> Communicating via the internet through an impersonal medium makes it so difficult, especially when you feel pressure to perform.


True, I love it though, it's basically my bread and butter, especially since I write much better than I speak. It's hard to form into words what I want to say, but writing it out is a different story.


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## Lumen Animae (Jan 31, 2012)

I'm starting to get the feeling that this is not so much about you being successful at Internet dating and more about you having problems with finding love? Maybe that's what you need coaching in, and not in how to market yourself online...?


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## MissingLinc (Jan 20, 2012)

Lumen Animae said:


> I'm starting to get the feeling that this is not so much about you being successful at Internet dating and more about you having problems with finding love? Maybe that's what you need coaching in, and not in how to market yourself online...?


I wouldn't consider the two to be mutually exclusive, after all you have to market yourself somehow to find love, right?


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## strawberryLola (Sep 19, 2010)

I agree with Lumen Animae in that it could be more coaching that's beneficial. I have a hard time communicating online, only because typing out what I'm thinking and saying isn't as fluid as compared to saying it without thinking and typing. lol

The more you practice, the more fluid you'll feel. 

A part of personal coaching is getting rid of that filter in our brains and not really thinking about how I need to be in order to be accepted but to be ok with being with me, even if I have my own physical disabilities, which I do too. 

You be you. Even if you are deaf, lay it out there. I'm legally blind and wear my Steven Urkel glasses that magnify my eyeballs. It's all goood.

By coaching, practice doing the small things that allow you to be more expressive, accepting and open about yourself. Find out what you're passionate about and really get into it. The more energy you put into activities you're passionate about (even if it's writing through online) the more confident you will feel in your own skin.


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## Lumen Animae (Jan 31, 2012)

MissingLinc said:


> I wouldn't consider the two to be mutually exclusive, after all you have to market yourself somehow to find love, right?


Actually you shouldn't have to market yourself at all to find love, be yourself and love will find you.


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## MissingLinc (Jan 20, 2012)

strawberryLola said:


> A part of personal coaching is getting rid of that filter in our brains and not really thinking about how I need to be in order to be accepted


The filter is what keeps me out of jail though. :crazy:

You know what the awesomest outcome would be? If my personal coach turned out to be the girl of my dreams. Two birds with one stone baby, OOH RAH.


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## Lumen Animae (Jan 31, 2012)

What would you say is the number one thing that you have a problem with when it comes to women? And this is not to mock you or anything, it’s just so that you can get some useful feedback from us.


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## MissingLinc (Jan 20, 2012)

Lumen Animae said:


> What would you say is the number one thing that you have a problem with when it comes to women? And this is not to mock you or anything, it’s just so that you can get some useful feedback from us.


In real life, talking to women in general. I gotta break the ice somehow but it's terrifying to do. I want to be a smooth operator, waltz up to a girl and just go, "You know love, if I could rewrite the alphabet, I'd put U and I together." And then wing it from there.

But the fear is crippling, partly because I'm afraid I'll mishear something she said and embarrass myself to death, and partly because women are not approachable in public at all, unless there's some pretext (like you work with them, and so on.) If I see a really cute girl in a coffeehouse for example, I want to talk to her, but she has this *EVIL, F%&# OFF* look on her face that makes me convinced if I say ANYTHING to her I'll get pepper sprayed.

No seriously, I really think that's what would happen.

I get the sense most women want to be left alone because men are hitting on them every single moment of every single day of the week, and I'll just be another one in a long line of guys trying to get into her pants. Really can't win here.

That's why I figure online dating would be easier, at least there's the given that everyone on there is looking for someone.

Right. Easier.


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## strawberryLola (Sep 19, 2010)

Having a supportive partner makes a world of difference. For sure. You still gotta bring it back to you, who MissingLinc is and what he's about.

You know that feeling when say.. if you're first learning to swim and you keep holding onto a swim instructor.. you eventually have to let go and swim on your own. Otherwise, holding on only prevents you from learning and being more confident about your own abilities.

It sounds like what your dealing is anxiety, which is normal. How to break that barrier? Practice man, practice.

Edit- granted, you're going to meet a lot of guarded people. If they give you that f*ck off look, smile back and realize it's their problem, not yours.


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## Lumen Animae (Jan 31, 2012)

I understand that the fear or rejection is an awful thing and if you use lines like;


MissingLinc said:


> "You know love, if I could rewrite the alphabet, I'd put U and I together."


 Then that’s what you’re going to get. Being smooth is about something completely different. A smooth guy would for example ask that cute girl at the bookstore for advice on which book he should buy for his sisters birthday (he can basically say anything but female friend, because then she will think he is already unofficially taken) and then having a nice conversations about which book would be best and telling her that he owes her a coffee or lunch for the trouble and ask for her number. And then on the first date she will totally ask if his sister liked the book and he can be honest and say that he hopes she will like it he give it to her on her birthday six months from now. Haha I would laugh so hard if a guy did that move on me…smooooth…..

This was just one example, so that you get the point, which is to pick up a girl in a way that she doesn’t realize it at first and then can’t get defensive because this;



MissingLinc said:


> I get the sense most women want to be left alone because men are hitting on them every single moment of every single day of the week, and I'll just be another one in a long line of guys trying to get into her pants. Really can't win here."


is unfortunately kind of true....


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## MissingLinc (Jan 20, 2012)

Well I wouldn't use that line, unless it's so freaking stupid that she wouldn't help but laugh, and even then if it's in a bar where stupid pickup lines would be expected. In a coffeehouse I'd imagine say hi, and then just kinda freeze since I won't be able to think of anything else to say.


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## Up and Away (Mar 5, 2011)

Hi, so, this place is pretty cool. Thats an interesting necklace. What have you done all day, this week. What do you do as far as work or school. Oh really, how is it? Haha, that sounds crazy, well, dont hurt anyone, or, yea that sounds like my parents. Have you tried chai tea before, its yummy, but i quit caffeine, sugar is good though (listen to her bla bla about loving sugar Lol jk), but then I get hyper, so watch out. *funny face. *move posture. *stare to the side like im too cool. *realize something and laugh at her. So, have you met many guys from.. you know. Its an interseting site. People have some crazy profiles. (now u can talk for 10 minutes just about yalls profile, or about how people are crazy, or you can make fun of the past people she's met maybe). No u havent met anyone, in fact u just signed up or started trying recently. You figure its a good way to meet eccentric cool people that arent so boringly normal. bla bla bla bla.

Worse case scenerio i guess say hey im nervous mind if we walk so i can calm down lol. Even worst case scenerio, just act shy and try to seem cute about it. Like, hide behind something for a sec and she will probably laugh. Once you loosen up you can regain your manhood haha. All im saying is being genuine is the number one thing, but being optimistic is the second most important thing, only sharing negative things once in a while as a way of showing vulnerability to gain trust and increase intimate connection, etc..

Last thing, if ur just quiet, she will likely not want to just take off because its even weirder of an action than staying to talk to you. So she will begin asking you questions. Just let her take control if u want man, but make it over coffee rather than a meal so it isnt too weird and she doesnt start thinking about (wow hes spending so much on me but hes not even trying).

Could even say "im usually really confident actually, especially when i play my guitar, take tests, play bball with my friends, but I am.... sorta nervous haha.. its ok, ill relax in a couple minutes. what have you been up to?"

There.


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## MissingLinc (Jan 20, 2012)

I got it now:






Give me a milk... *slaps counter* CHOCOLATE!


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## Lumen Animae (Jan 31, 2012)

Souled In said:


> Worse case scenerio i guess say hey im nervous mind if we walk so i can calm down lol. Even worst case scenerio, just act shy and try to seem cute about it. Like, hide behind something for a sec and she will probably laugh. Once you loosen up you can regain your manhood haha.


Would totally work! at least on me it would, but then again I have always had a weakness for nervous and shy guys. It's something genuine and non-threatening about it. A shy smile tends to make my heart melt…oh, and if he has dimples on top of that, I’m floored. haha


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## Up and Away (Mar 5, 2011)

Yeah actually buying a book a girl recommends in a store would certainly get him credit.

But then again, ur buying a book some random girl recommended. Haha, I suppose it might be worth it.


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## knittigan (Sep 2, 2011)

Lumen Animae said:


> Would totally work! at least on me it would, but then again I have always had a weakness for nervous and shy guys. It's something genuine and non-threatening about it. A shy smile tends to make my heart melt...oh, and if he has dimples on top of that, I'm floored. haha


I know, right? Catnip.


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## Lumen Animae (Jan 31, 2012)

Souled In said:


> Yeah actually buying a book a girl recommends in a store would certainly get him credit.
> 
> But then again, ur buying a book some random girl recommended. Haha, I suppose it might be worth it.


The buying of the book was not the point, but how he should start out a casual conversation instead of going in for the kill from the get go. Making the girl relaxed makes her take down her defenses and increases his chances of getting her number. But she might have shitty taste in literature and he doesn’t want her number anyway…haha


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## bengalcat (Dec 8, 2010)

MissingLinc said:


> If I see a really cute girl in a coffeehouse for example, I want to talk to her, but she has this *EVIL, F%&# OFF* look on her face that makes me convinced if I say ANYTHING to her I'll get pepper sprayed.
> 
> No seriously, I really think that's what would happen.
> 
> I get the sense most women want to be left alone because men are hitting on them every single moment of every single day of the week, and I'll just be another one in a long line of guys trying to get into her pants. Really can't win here.


.... I'm happy to not be left alone if the guy (or any person) coming up has something good to add to my day or life. Like intelligence, or lightheartedness, or kindness. I am very happy to be left alone if all the guy has to offer is his interest in getting in my pants or his opinion that I am an attractive person. That is the shit that gets boring. I'm also not happy to be approached by a guy who feels entitled. With some guys who approach, there's this air of "Well I'm interested in you and bothered to make this step to randomly display my interest, therefore you should give me what I want. Look, I did the work here! I can't have put in this effort for nothing!" (And these aren't necessarily all the macho assholes you might imagine... I think some are just desperate, frustrated guys who've let these feelings rule them and turn them more selfish.)

No, most women are not getting hit on by men every single moment of every single day of the week. It can be really nice and flattering when it happens. But for some guys it seems so much like "oh hey there woman in pants" or that they're playing the numbers, that it really isn't a nice feeling at all. I get that if you don't know the woman yet, then maybe there isn't much more to appreciate besides the appearance, but in that case you have to find some way of distinguishing yourself from other guys because "yes I am attracted to you, this is why I bother paying attention to you" is nothing new. 

Geez it should be pretty obvious not to approach any person with evilface unless you have to for work or something. That's a separate issue from approaching women in general. It doesn't matter if you think she's cute and you'd like the chance, if someone is putting off vibes that they want to be left alone, the smartest and most considerate thing to do is to leave them alone. You're not entitled to a shot at anyone. We're all people, with our good days and bad days and maybe not even days but phases. That was a lame example to use to justify not approaching women on the whole. 

I can sort of get why you have all these negative feelings about dating and approaching women (I'm basing this read on other posts in this thread as well), I don't think it's uncommon amongst guys, but ... it's only going to make things that much more difficult for you. Guys can be negative and mopey about this shit as long as they like, claiming it's justified and such, but whether or not it is, these feelings are going to actively sabotage your efforts with women and they're going to support a screwy self-regard at the same time. I'm not sure of the route you need to take to get there, but you need to travel lighter about all this.

Edit: Just felt the need to restate one of the points in the first paragraph. I'm not saying guys approach me and instantly ask for sex or say something about attractiveness or my appearance, clearly most people are not complete numbnuts. But it's like if a guy approaches and aren't showing anything about themselves except their interest in you, that's like... no interesting new information. It's flattering, but it's boring and does just make you "generic guy". Whereas a guy who approaches with a well-placed joke or an interesting observation or with some thoughtfulness actually shows you something to spark some interest. If people treat you like just another guy or just another woman... that might be because you're not showing them anything unique or different.


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## MissingLinc (Jan 20, 2012)

bengalcat said:


> .... I'm happy to not be left alone if the guy (or any person) coming up has something good to add to my day or life. Like intelligence, or lightheartedness, or kindness. I am very happy to be left alone if all the guy has to offer is his interest in getting in my pants or his opinion that I am an attractive person. That is the shit that gets boring. I'm also not happy to be approached by a guy who feels entitled. With some guys who approach, there's this air of "Well I'm interested in you and bothered to make this step to randomly display my interest, therefore you should give me what I want. Look, I did the work here! I can't have put in this effort for nothing!" (And these aren't necessarily all the macho assholes you might imagine... I think some are just desperate, frustrated guys who've let these feelings rule them and turn them more selfish.)


It'd be nice if women took the initiative every now and then too.


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## MissingLinc (Jan 20, 2012)

> That was a lame example to use to justify not approaching women on the whole.


Really?

What if they all had that expression?

Rather than approach someone cold, I like to see signs of encouragement that might indicate they won't tear my head off just by approaching them. Does she smile at me, for example? Look in my direction a little longer than usual? You know, any indication that could give me an opening and maybe start a conversation.

Instead I see a lot of women with a "Who farted???" look on their faces. Could be they're just shy, which is what other introverts here have expressed frustration with, so I try to leave open for that possibility. But considering I'm not social to begin with, it just makes this task all the more daunting. I have enough trouble as it is just talking to men I don't know.

So you might like to piss on men like us grumbling over how difficult it's gotten to approach women, but consider that it's 100 times harder for me because I'm DEAF on top of everything else, so yeah, I'm gonna have a little trouble with this.


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## bengalcat (Dec 8, 2010)

MissingLinc said:


> It'd be nice if women took the initiative every now and then too.


No shit. That's a separate discussion though. We're talking about when men approach women. 

Some women do though, by the way. Maybe not enough yet still, and maybe it depends on where you live, and also maybe it depends on the kind of woman you like or what you expect from women. (Some guys say they want women who do that but then don't want a woman to be strong-willed and decisive in other ways for example.) But... there are women who do it. 

I've done it. 

(There's also another interesting thing to consider where often there is more back and forth in these things than people realise. I know there are body language people who suggest that actually women often make the first move or give the first signal through body language, which is what communicates to the man that he would be welcome.)


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## MissingLinc (Jan 20, 2012)

bengalcat said:


> No shit. That's a separate discussion though. We're talking about when men approach women.
> 
> Some women do though, by the way. Maybe not enough yet still, and maybe it depends on where you live, and also maybe it depends on the kind of woman you like or what you expect from women. (Some guys say they want women who do that but then don't want a woman to be strong-willed and decisive in other ways for example.) But... there are women who do it.
> 
> ...


It doesn't help that I have the wrong attitude about it too, like I see a girl so engrossed in something that I really don't want to bother her, even while I'm thinking **OMG SHE'S SO AWESOME SHE'S DRIPPING ALL OVER WITH AWESOMESAUCE!!** But when somebody is so preoccupied (and usually that's the case in public) the last thing I want to do is intrude.

My default thought is "I'm bothering this girl if I talk to her."

My thought is never, "I could make this girl's day if I talk to her." 

That slight change in perspective could make all the difference too.


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## bengalcat (Dec 8, 2010)

MissingLinc said:


> Really?
> 
> What if they all had that expression?
> 
> ...


Perhaps you think I'm just pissing on you. I'm saying.... if you need to grumble, then I guess you're going to grumble. But unfortunately, those feelings are actually only going to add to your problems. So grumble for as long as you need, but you have to know that they're what's standing in your way as well. 

Seriously, don't approach people who look shitty. That's great, already narrows things down for you. If all you're seeing is people who look shitty, maybe you need to find different environments to be in. Are you really trying to claim that all women go through life looking sour-faced? That this is something to do with womanness? 

Yes. I get that you're deaf. I get that it must make things harder. And I'm saying this in a short way but I do genuinely understand that it's an easier road for some more than others. I'm sorry about that, I don't know why life is unfair. That still doesn't mean that the negative feelings aren't going to get in your way as much as they get in anyone else's way, especially when it comes to dating. I'm just saying - even if there is good reason for them, they don't help you. At some stage, it's not all about the externalities, and we become our own worst enemies.


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## MissingLinc (Jan 20, 2012)

> Are you really trying to claim that all women go through life looking sour-faced?


The ones I'm attracted to usually are. Maybe sour faced women are my type, for reasons that aren't readily clear to me. :crazy:


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## bengalcat (Dec 8, 2010)

MissingLinc said:


> My default thought is "I'm bothering this girl if I talk to her."
> 
> My thought is never, "I could make this girl's day if I talk to her."
> 
> That slight change in perspective could make all the difference too.


Oh yeah. I mean, I can relate to that default thought. I'm quite introverted and like that with people in general, with making new friends with people I don't know but seem cool. I hate the thought that I might be intruding or pushing myself onto someone. But then I always think about how funny it is that I assume that that's how they would feel, because I quite like it when people randomly talk to me. I mean.... not everyone is open of course, and I do think that some societies or cultures encourage people to be more guarded and less open than others. But..... god, if some person I don't know but is nice and funny starts up a chat with me, I usually love it. 

I think that default thought is partly an introversion thing and partly also... a kind of devaluing yourself thing. Because I think part of it is not being aware of what you have to offer, and that you can be worth someone's time, however random that person is.


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## MissingLinc (Jan 20, 2012)

bengalcat said:


> I think that default thought is partly an introversion thing and partly also... a kind of devaluing yourself thing. Because I think part of it is not being aware of what you have to offer, and that you can be worth someone's time, however random that person is.


Yep.

My best friend said it before when we discussed job hunting. If I don't like me, no one else is going to like me. I too easily give off that vibe, that I have nothing to offer, that the reason I don't have a significant other while every else does, (even when their significant others mistreat or even abuse them), is because somehow I'm worst than even them. I must REALLY suck if even the douchewagons can find dates while my own horse continues to stay stuck in the gate.

BTW, I remember sending in a resume (as a joke) to my friend for a job which read, "Hi, I have no skills, no discernible talent and have absolutely nothing of value to bring to your company. Please hire me!"

My friend was not amused. Heh.


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## bengalcat (Dec 8, 2010)

I just have one more thing to say and then I really need to get my ass off to hit the books. 

You said something about how difficult it's gotten to approach women. 

This... whole... idea.... perplexes me. Sorry, I should explain. I mean...... this idea that randomly approaching someone out of romantic/sexual interest is one that should naturally make sense or be easy? I don't know, looking through history and across cultures, how common or normal it is that a random man should be able to randomly approach a random woman for romantic enterprise. I think a lot of cultures have rituals and rules and protocols to facilitate the coming together of men and women. (Heh. Oh.) And even in western cultures now (which... is way too broad a way to put it.. ugh.), I don't know that a huge lot of people are getting together through the random approach method. [This as opposed to knowing someone through school or college or work or some other shared activity. Or from being introduced by a friend.]

It is totally a fair point that out there in the general world where the people you're seeing are going about their day, engaged in something according to the need or pattern of their life..... That there might not be many who are open to a romantic interlude at that moment. Open or available, for whatever reason. 

I personally find dating strangers (as a kind of sport or taster session type thing) and the whole idea of the random approach to be... um, strange American ideas? Not strange like they're bad but strange as in.... I naturally find them unusual because they seem like a lot of effort and that they do require a strong constitution. I mean that's not to say that you don't have strangers falling into something in other cultures, but it seems that that happens because there is chemistry between them and they both recognise it at the time. It's not so much that sense that if one likes a person (but hasn't been getting any signals back) that one still needs to go and try. It really feels like dating and asking people out is like homework for some people.


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## MissingLinc (Jan 20, 2012)

bengalcat said:


> This... whole... idea.... perplexes me. Sorry, I should explain. I mean...... this idea that randomly approaching someone out of romantic/sexual interest is one that should naturally make sense or be easy? I don't know, looking through history and across cultures, how common or normal it is that a random man should be able to randomly approach a random woman for romantic enterprise. I think a lot of cultures have rituals and rules and protocols to facilitate the coming together of men and women. (Heh. Oh.) And even in western cultures now (which... is way too broad a way to put it.. ugh.), I don't know that a huge lot of people are getting together through the random approach method.


The weird thing is anyone I talk to who's gone abroad (outside the US) have mentioned how ridiculously easier it is to talk to strangers and strike up conversations compared to here. Here, we generally don't like talking to each other. And by here I mean New York, (not the city, which is actually pretty friendly in comparison), but it does seem to be a regional thing. I've traveled a lot and see cultural divides where communities are cocooned from outsiders unless it's a major city or a tourist trap.

Normally, people meet their significant others via friends and family. I wish I could get that benefit too, but I have a very small family that doesn't know anybody, only one close friend who doesn't know anybody (partly because he lives in a REALLY small town). So that leaves work, where I'm pretty much on my own and don't have any coworkers within my age range or who could set me up with someone.

And that leaves online dating, or joining groups revolving around a specific interest. The problem with meetups and groups though goes back to me being an introvert again and how much I hate to be out in public, plus I tend to get bored of any one hobby and lose interest in it (so actively participating in a group doesn't last for very long). That combination means I'd only have one reason to join a group, which is to find a girl. That alone makes it a very bad reason, because my intentions would be transparently obvious before long. Even then, hobbies I enjoy don't typically have a large female demographic (such as geeky tech stuff).

Ideally, this forum could have been a nice place to meet someone, but it seems everyone is already spoken for (or now completely terrified of me after reading these rants, heh)

So... ... ....

.......................................

Not many options from what I could see, other than hoping for a random straight out of a 80s chick flick encounter where guardian angels or fate bring two lost loves together.

So it's pretty much a piggyback to online dating, where at least I know I'm dealing with women who are seeking, rather than the random encounter where she might be married already or involved (or just seems to be hating men at the moment.)

That forces me to deal with all the elements of online dating that I absolutely despise. This is really not how I want to meet the girl of my dreams, cherry picking through vague profiles like I'm shopping at Amazon.com, and then hoping for the best.

Oh well.


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## Lumen Animae (Jan 31, 2012)

_Missinglinc;_ I'm happy it's working for you. Keep the profile for a while and see how it works out. Give it some time. 
_alphacat_ I’m sure you also will get some feedback if you post the link.


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## TragicallyHip (Jan 6, 2012)

@missinglync The profile is much better! Nice work!


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## alphacat (Mar 17, 2011)

Here:

OkCupid | alphacat88 / 27 / M / New York, New York

Bring on the critiques!


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## knittigan (Sep 2, 2011)

@MissingLinc, it looks awesome... I'm glad to hear that you're getting some responses! Best of luck!

@alphacat, it looks really good! I've used online dating before and the only thing on your profile that would be even remotely off-putting is that there are a few spelling/grammar issues. Specifically:

"I spent most of my childhood in Los Angeles, *and* my time there gave me a rather laid back temperament."

"I'm addicted to *W*ikipedia"

"I have terrible knife skill*s*, however, I am a very good cook, *as* my friends *will* testify *to* under oath."

"Book*s* - A Study in Scarlet"

"I listen to any genre, *but here is * a sample of artists on my playlist at the moment"

"I compulsively search *W*ikipedia whenever I encounter a new topic. Do you know the difference between plaid, tartan, and *gingham*?"

"Why is it difficult to meet people who appreciate who you are, *who share* your values, *and* who *want* more than just a fling*?*"

Very nitpicky suggestions, but I've spoken to a few other women about this is the past, and when you spend a lot of time doing any kind of written communication (for work or for school), spelling/grammar issues stand out quickly and can become a bit of an irrational pet peeve for some people; in a way, it's just as important as having a error-free resume! Other than that, though, it's fantastic. It's very upbeat and you sound like a very interesting guy. I'd totally go out with you :wink:


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## alphacat (Mar 17, 2011)

knittigan said:


> @_MissingLinc_ , it looks awesome... I'm glad to hear that you're getting some responses! Best of luck!
> 
> @_alphacat_ , it looks really good! I've used online dating before and the only thing on your profile that would be even remotely off-putting is that there are a few spelling/grammar issues. Specifically:
> 
> ...



Thanks for the kind words. I was afraid that my profile is a bit too blunt, thus a bit off putting. However, it seems like being honest is the way to go.

I think girls in NYC have grown too skeptical, and assume that most guys are full of s***. I've had two girls say to me that they were surprised by how well I cook, despite the fact that I expressly say so in my profile. Apparently, on okcupid, every guy knows how to cook, is looking for a long term relationship, and loves horseback riding..

It's a little embarrassing, but I think I need to hone my S skills a bit, and learn to double check my writing. Thanks for pointing out the errors ('-'*)b

PS. I'd thank you twice if I could XD


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## Lumen Animae (Jan 31, 2012)

alphacat said:


> Here:
> 
> OkCupid | alphacat88 / 27 / M / New York, New York
> 
> Bring on the critiques!


You should use a picture without you wearing colored glasses or sunglasses in it. Gives a better impression of who you are. 

And FYI, women will check every little information they can find about you to make sure that you’re not a creep, soooo you should probably remove the info on the only test you took or you should take more (in other subjects) to balance it out. Because your profile was kind of awesome then I saw the test and went, oh, pervert. Now this doesn’t mean that you are one, or that women don’t enjoy men who are open and experimental, but we rather find that out after we feel like getting to know you in that way and not before. It kind of disqualifies you. Let’s just say that your profile= boyfriend potential and the test= guy just looking to fuck…. I wouldn’t take you serious after I saw that. Sorry. Hope it helped!


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## Runvardh (May 17, 2011)

Meh, see if this works:

I am... the one you want! *rock star grin*

Too cocky? Did your eyes roll a little? Are you trying to keep a smile off your face?

Good.

I'm actually quite shy at first; I stutter, I look away, make nervous hand gestures and the like. Often I look way to serious (Go away Joker!) until I find something outrageously funny, at which point I'm laughing all over the place. I also think more than I talk; something I try to remedy, but some of my thoughts aren't quite for public consumption in their raw form.

I'd actually have to compare myself to that dusty 25-year-old single malt scotch meant to be enjoyed for what it is rather than cut with something to make it go down easier. I try to flex where I can, but I know I'm different enough that I'll really only ever appeal to a niche market. I don't go to extremes, but it's in the subtlety that the difference is made, the determinant in who wants it and who doesn't.

At the moment I'm a little more armchair than professional as an intellectual, but my interests tend to run from physics through meteorology and music to even some parts of psychology. I am a stargazer and a cloud watcher who has one eye on the exoplanet tally and the other on commercial space. I also like to hear about random theories and read up on their plausibility.

I'm also more of a lover than a fighter, thought I've had my share of fights. Violence should never be the first solution, but with the animal side of human nature, it can not be pulled from the table. I very much prefer the ideals of dreams, but this reality still requires down to earth thinking.



What I’m doing with my life Working, mostly (What a revelation). I'm attempting to help my little brother out in a new city. I'm also working on getting out on the trails with my bike at least once a week, maybe pick up what I've lost over the last five years - and lose some of what I've picked up over that same time period.




I’m really good at cooking, dishes, laundry, math, reading maps, making fire, following directions, making improvised shelters, building computers, firearms handling, walking for longer than half an hour and not being tired, take twice as long for hypothermia to run its course and half the normal time to recover from it.

I think I left something funny in there... Na, that would be trying too hard.




The first things people usually notice about me I'm quiet; but that tends to change some depending on topic and if I feel the other person is listening. The next perception then becomes that I'm a geek - though not one for the purposes of being cool.




Favorite books, movies, shows, music, and food Other than non-fiction, I'll be more often reading science fiction or space opera. I'll also read the odd manga here or there.

I also watch science fiction and space opera (surprise, surprise), along with comic derived movies - I love explosions. However, I to enjoy a good drama or thriller with a real story to it; so many details that you don't notice them all the first time through. I also watch anime.

My music tastes often hover around metal, electronic, rock, and alternative. There are some folk type songs out there that I also enjoy and give me an excuse to sit and listen or dance around my living room. The tastes that I probably don't show often though, are for blues, jazz, romantic, classical, and baroque - some of which you may need to ask a music teacher about.

Food is food, though I'm working on my taste for sashimi. Peanut butter and chocolate tend to get me hyper as well as cherry and chocolate. Mint (and catnip), however, has certain other effects on me that are better experimented with _after_ I've grown close enough to someone.




The six things I could never do without My Money
My Mind
... no, not seriously. My mind, yes, but if the economy tanked and my money lost all value, I'd still know how to live (I had survive in here, but I could do better than that).

Air, food, water, shelter, rest all work, but I class those under the one heading of "essentials".

Third would be my need for time outside. I'm fine heading out alone, but I wouldn't mind the company.

Something to learn is on the list, as I find myself frequently empathizing with Jonny #5 when it comes to the need for input.

A hobby or project, whether I'm working on it that moment or not - lack of a creative outlet makes me a very sad sad boy.

Friends, should also be on this list. I don't need a lot, and actually, in this area one can truly have *way* too much of a good thing; but none would absolutely suck.




I spend a lot of time thinking about My mon- What song is that from?!

What I need to do in a given day, how I want to do something, why something won't work.

I also think about random things like what setup will produce a certain kind of climate, some theory that seems neat, story ideas, or whether or not the first person to walk on Mars will be speaking Mandarin as the official mission language.




On a typical Friday night I am gaming or watching anime since I'm typically trying to recover from the work week.




You should message me if You want to know more.

Also, if you do not find the below frightening:
INFP IEI 4w5 sx/sp


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## alphacat (Mar 17, 2011)

Lumen Animae said:


> You should use a picture without you wearing colored glasses or sunglasses in it. Gives a better impression of who you are.
> 
> And FYI, women will check every little information they can find about you to make sure that you’re not a creep, soooo you should probably remove the info on the only test you took or you should take more (in other subjects) to balance it out. Because your profile was kind of awesome then I saw the test and went, oh, pervert. Now this doesn’t mean that you are one, or that women don’t enjoy men who are open and experimental, but we rather find that out after we feel like getting to know you in that way and not before. It kind of disqualifies you. Let’s just say that your profile= boyfriend potential and the test= guy just looking to fuck…. I wouldn’t take you serious after I saw that. Sorry. Hope it helped!


Haha, thanks, I haven't even noticed that. Believe it or not, that test was linked to me from this very forum!

I'll try to find some more pictures to put on the site. I haven't noticed that most of my daytime photos are ones with sunglasses.. It really takes an outside perspective to catch these details, since I look at my own profile too often. Also, I love sunglasses 

@Runvardh Our of curiosity, can you really cook or are you just saying that?


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## Runvardh (May 17, 2011)

alphacat said:


> @Runvardh Our of curiosity, can you really cook or are you just saying that?


I'd be dead or worse than broke if I didn't. That said, I do get compliments on it, so I must be doing better than survival level. I even play with it a little when the mood strikes me, but unfortunately you'll have to take my word on all of this.


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## alphacat (Mar 17, 2011)

Runvardh said:


> I'd be dead or worse than broke if I didn't. That said, I do get compliments on it, so I must be doing better than survival level. I even play with it a little when the mood strikes me, but unfortunately you'll have to take my word on all of this.


Haha, I'm not doubting you. It's just that I've been told that quite a bit of men say that they can cook when they can do no more than heat up a cup a noodle.


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

MissingLinc said:


> Because I have to write so many emails, I usually copy and paste with a short paragraph indicating that I had read their profile and what it might have said that prompted me to email them, maybe just a sentence or two, then follow up with a copy and pasted response, such as:
> 
> 
> 
> That's basically it as far as writing goes. Short and sweet, at least I hope.


 That is exactly why I don't respond. If I sense they've copied and pasted anything, or regularly send out 50-100 emails, I don't take the time. They are not being picky enough. I don't feel like there is anything special about me they are interested in. They are just trying to make a "hit".

I've been on Match for a long time and I met my current SO on Match, but he was not the first. And interestingly enough, even though I had received many emails locally, the only date I went on this time around was with this man. And he was 70 miles away. There is _a lot_ to be said about the approach.

You may PM me if you'd like more advice. But I will be honest. 

Also, I've written a few of my male and female friend's profiles so they got more hits.


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## Runvardh (May 17, 2011)

alphacat said:


> Haha, I'm not doubting you. It's just that I've been told that quite a bit of men say that they can cook when they can do no more than heat up a cup a noodle.


I've dated women who will say the same thing and then promptly burn the noodles if I'm not watching. I have not allowed a woman to touch my kitchen in 7 years because of this.


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## MissingLinc (Jan 20, 2012)

pinkrasputin said:


> That is exactly why I don't respond. If I sense they've copied and pasted anything, or regularly send out 50-100 emails, I don't take the time. They are not being picky enough. I don't feel like there is anything special about me they are interested in. They are just trying to make a "hit".


The reason we're not being picky here is because women are too picky.

Here's the thing, when I first tried out online dating, I was really choosy in who I sent emails to. I would consider only a handful out of several hundred profiles, and send heartfelt messages to them, asking them about themselves, what they liked, their hopes and dreams, etc. I didn't pour my heart out, but I did show interest.

I never got a single response. After doing this for about a month, I got angry. Really angry, that after the last email that went ignored, I sent a second email that was nasty and derogatory, calling her out for being a rude bitch who can't even take 5 seconds to say I'm not interested or thank me for taking the time to email her. That finally got a response: "I would rather ignore you than say you were ugly."

About a couple more months of that, I became very jaded and burnt out. I just couldn't approach this with a positive attitude anymore. This after only emailing a handful of women, so I just gave up.

That was several years ago, and since I'm trying to be serious about this again, rather then try to be so limited in who I'm talking to, I thought it might be a better idea to simply cast as wide a net as possible. The email isn't so much an inquiry as it is waving a flag that says "Hey I exist, check me out and see if we might have something in common!"

Just by playing the numbers game, I figure I would come across enough profiles that eventually, SOMEBODY will get back to me, right? It's just math.

So this thing where women want to be singled out, only to ignore the guy who singles them out because he's not tall enough or doesn't have the right eye color or something, then ignore the guy who seems to be casting a wide net, tells me this is not an ideal way for me to meet someone, especially given my INFJ type, which reacts very badly to the already shallow nature of these sites. I wish there was a better alternative to this.


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

MissingLinc said:


> The reason we're not being picky here is because women are too picky.


I don't think I'm picky. I just think I will only be with what I want to be with. 

Btw, you don't have to explain to me why you sent out massive emails. I was just telling you one of the reasons I don't respond to "form letters". 





> Here's the thing, when I first tried out online dating, I was really choosy in who I sent emails to. I would consider only a handful out of several hundred profiles, and send heartfelt messages to them, asking them about themselves, what they liked, their hopes and dreams, etc. I didn't pour my heart out, but I did show interest.


 Too much. Short and quick is the best. Do not get emotionally attached or too deep before meeting them. You never know what a person _really_ looks like until you meet them. 

Plus, I don't have the time to answer in-depth emails to a stranger. The same happens when you meet someone in real life. If you went up to a stranger to ask for a date, you wouldn't first ask about goals and dreams right away. Most people aren't into tons of emails back and forth. 



> I never got a single response. After doing this for about a month, I got angry. Really angry, that after the last email that went ignored, I sent a second email that was nasty and derogatory, calling her out for being a rude bitch who can't even take 5 seconds to say I'm not interested or thank me for taking the time to email her. That finally got a response: "I would rather ignore you than say you were ugly."


 Filtering out angry or temperamental men is what us women do. If we delay our response, it's never in your benefit to act nasty because of it. To us, your real self will show through.

An ex boyfriend of mine pursued me for 8 months. I ignored his emails two times around. Then I ended up finally "giving in". Ha. He just persisted at the right time _after_ he got over me never responding. I just didn't have the time before and others were pulling my interest. 



> About a couple more months of that, I became very jaded and burnt out. I just couldn't approach this with a positive attitude anymore. This after only emailing a handful of women, so I just gave up.


 That's best. Jaded and bitter men are a turn off. As are jaded and burned women. People just want to have fun and if something develops from there, it's a bonus. But the deep emotional right away or any drama before meeting the person- no way. 



> That was several years ago, and since I'm trying to be serious about this again, rather then try to be so limited in who I'm talking to, I thought it might be a better idea to simply cast as wide a net as possible. The email isn't so much an inquiry as it is waving a flag that says "Hey I exist, check me out and see if we might have something in common!"


 That's all you need to do. I have a very witty profile and it's sarcastic, too. If a guy is smart, he will give quick wit back. Most guys will compliment my looks first, it's not necessarily a bad thing, but if there is something just a tad different than the rest, it helps.

Here is how my INTJ ex got my attention on Match: I had something in my profile about my preference for foods. "Monkey heads and bat brains aside, I'll try just about any food." So the email I received from him was my quote: "Monkey heads and bat brains aside, I'll try just about any food" and he wrote under it, "Great. ..We have that in common. We should meet." It was funny, short and sweet. I think I responded like a week later maybe emailed only 2 more times before we took it to phone (he got my number from me responding with my phone. Ha! And he asked me "Did you just give me your number?" And I said "Oops no. Didn't mean to, but here it is:xxxxx" 

Most of the guys who have gotten dates with me are men I'm attracted to but I only notice them because they will send a short funny email and include their phone number right away if I feel like chatting with them. Then usually I will text them. 



> Just by playing the numbers game, I figure I would come across enough profiles that eventually, SOMEBODY will get back to me, right? It's just math.


 Just make sure you don't seem desperate. It's pretty easy to sniff out. 



> So this thing where women want to be singled out, only to ignore the guy who singles them out because he's not tall enough or doesn't have the right eye color or something, then ignore the guy who seems to be casting a wide net, tells me this is not an ideal way for me to meet someone, especially given my INFJ type, which reacts very badly to the already shallow nature of these sites. I wish there was a better alternative to this.


It really doesn't sound like this is the right place for you. 

I really would only suggest Match for people are look their best and are confident about it. It's VISUAL first. If you have a problem with that, really don't go there. 

Almost every profile I've read by a man I'm interested in has said, "I prefer a woman who takes care of herself physically as well." I agree. I also would like a man who takes care of himself physically. I work in the fitness industry and believe that if you take care of yourself physically, you also take care of yourself emotionally. Also, I am a very active person and I would like a person who is also active. I also say I want intellectual conversation and physical activity. 

Many people don't read the profile. They just look at my pictures. My current boyfriend first approached me on Match and said, "Wow. Does anybody read all that on your profile?" He was being a smart ass so I gave it back, "Only those who know their competition". We started doing several fast smart ass emails back and forth, and before I knew it, I was hooked. I was ignoring all my other emails coming through. He monopolized my time by having fun with me. He gave me his number and by that night we were texting. The next day we went to a 3 hour phone call. Lol. We met about a week later. It took us a bit of time because he was living 70 miles away at the time. So even though he was out of my radius, I gave in. I had to. He was so cute and he couldn't help it that he lived in a small tiny town where the only other options were to date goats. :tongue:


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## perfectcircle (Jan 5, 2011)

...are your pictures cute? Are you too polite and make it obvious, "I don't know if you'll respond but if you do I'll be waiting so please please please throw me a bone?" Try being playful and to the point and give them something to go on besides boring what-do-you-do-what-are-your-interests small talk.

I got tons of messages when i online dated, but I ignored most of them, as in 95 percent. 
Here's some messages I ignored:
-Hey what's up
-Hi
-How's it going
reason: boring, nothing to go on, lack creativity, boring
-I know you probably get tons of messages on here but I thought I'd give it a shot, hope you get back to me.
Reason: undersellign yourself and making you look like you don't even respect yourself and sad, since it's an online dating site you can say anything and it is completely safe. A little insecurity can be fine and or cute, but not when it becomes the filter through which you relate all the time.
-Messgaes that took a little information from my profile and worked it into a lame come on- hey wanna get together and you can teach me some spanish? uh no.
-Messages that were like letters the very first time you message.

The most important thing is the exchange, the quick and easy back and forth. OVer the internet what you are measuring for attractiveness is sincerity and wit, and the only way to communicate those to is to not WORRY about how you will be percieved, which is really hard! Often you're gonna mess it up, but otherwise you look stilted, stiff, awkward, and conversation is unpleasant. They can sense you are trying too hard and the rhythm is off.

Another thing that turned me off was when the guy would message me a couple times in a row, waiting for me to respond. Dude, you don't even know me, I owe you NOTHING, so stop acting like we're friends.

Spilling too much too soon. I realize that the internet is an anonymous forum and venting can be a relief because then it feels like "they really know you", but it's weird. Some guys want to talk about their exes, their problems with love or dating, how they feel lonely, which is great but it won't make me want to date you, and since this is a dating site, it also means I won't waste my time messaging you.

The only thing I can tell from your message that you did wrong is the awkward good-bye at the end. Don't write it like a letter, make an opening for her to reply-- you should phrase it like, "Oh man, working with sex trafficing, that's intense, how do you handle that?"
cue let her answer question
not, "Polite Question to signifiy itnerest, oh man now i feel awkward, bye, hope you bet back to me, detracting from the rhythm of my speech, I have carefully constructed this entire thing."

Most of all, don't be TOO polite or timid!! The best results come from someoen who makes you laugh, distinguished themself in some way, and revealed that they can be witty, real, or fun in some way.

Example, on my profile, it has, Who Should Message You, and I said, anyone who is not a rapist. So tonnnnns of guys messaged me, "I promise I am not rapist, lololol, let's talk?" and one guy messaged me, "What have you got against rapists?" Guess who I talked to....


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## perfectcircle (Jan 5, 2011)

MissingLinc said:


> The reason we're not being picky here is because women are too picky.
> 
> Here's the thing, when I first tried out online dating, I was really choosy in who I sent emails to. I would consider only a handful out of several hundred profiles, and send heartfelt messages to them, asking them about themselves, what they liked, their hopes and dreams, etc. I didn't pour my heart out, but I did show interest.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry you got rejected, but think about this. The woman is put in the position of accepting or rejecting, so what do you want us to do, pretend we would want to date you, answer your heart felt messages, to be "polite" and "not a bitch", when we have no interest in you?? If someone doesn't reply, they aren't interested. If they do reply, they are. If someone were to reply when they weren't really interested and kept getting you to share more and more, that's called leading someone on. You can't get mad at a woman or call her a bitch for not wanting you, guess what, it is no one's obligation to choose you to be their mate. The attitude that by being "nice" you should "earn" a woman dehumanizes us. This is the above sections of your post.

As to the second part of the post, I don't think it's the numbers game or the singling a woman out that doesn't work--- the simple fact of it is, if she finds you interesting and would want to date you, she will. Maybe there is way to be more smooth in your approach and make yourself appear more desirable, but i don't think it has anything to do with how many women you contact. There is not set rules to win us over you know, we're not trying to set you up to fail. I know you feel, I try X tactic, doesn't work, try Y tactic, doesn't work, so I'm damned if i do and damned if I don't, maybe stop thinkign of it in tactics and just see it like this-- they are a person just like you, and looking for just one other person, just like you, and you're looking for reciprocal interest. So each person that it doesn't work out with is a missed connection, and you are just looking for the one connection that sticks. You just haven't found the right person yet. I am sorry about that. I trust it will happen though, so try not to get too bitter.


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## Lumen Animae (Jan 31, 2012)

Maybe you also should try other ways of meeting women. It will increase you chances, especially if they had to talk to you before making any judgment. Speed dating, or certain events were people share your interests could also be a good idea. Also looking at yourself from an outside perspective could be good, we often don’t now how we come across and how others perceive us. In a perfect world certain superficial aspects of a person shouldn’t matter but the world isn’t perfect so they do matter. Taking care of yourself physically, mentally and emotionally and making sure that you are healthy in all these areas is kind of important. That goes for all of us. Good luck!


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## MissingLinc (Jan 20, 2012)

adverseaffects said:


> I'm sorry you got rejected, but think about this. The woman is put in the position of accepting or rejecting, so what do you want us to do, pretend we would want to date you, answer your heart felt messages, to be "polite" and "not a bitch", when we have no interest in you??


No, I just think the reasons for rejection are typically ridiculous and shallow. It's just coffee when it comes down to it, which is a better way to rule out (or rule in) someone than to blow someone off because their message is too generic or too "feeling."

I obviously can't change that mentality but to me it's akin to racism. In the same way bigots judge those for no other reason than skin color, we make far too many assumptions about people based on one email and a profile. I've done that as well, which is why I'd still be willing to have a coffee date with someone whose profile didn't really impress me at first.

It's just the nature of the game. Online dating may be one of the most shallow, bigoted means of finding new relationships, but unfortunately I have little other recourse.


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## MissingLinc (Jan 20, 2012)

> Maybe you also should try other ways of meeting women. It will increase you chances, especially if they had to talk to you before making any judgment. Speed dating, or certain events were people share your interests could also be a good idea.


I've wanted to give speed dating a try but I've found the environments too noisy. It's hard to discern what they were trying to say so as a result I haven't been able to impress many people off the bat. I just have to bite the bullet on this and hope after enough time a girl comes along who won't blow me off because I misspelled a word in my email, lol.


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## perfectcircle (Jan 5, 2011)

MissingLinc said:


> No, I just think the reasons for rejection are typically ridiculous and shallow. It's just coffee when it comes down to it, which is a better way to rule out (or rule in) someone than to blow someone off because their message is too generic or too "feeling."
> 
> I obviously can't change that mentality but to me it's akin to racism. In the same way bigots judge those for no other reason than skin color, we make far too many assumptions about people based on one email and a profile. I've done that as well, which is why I'd still be willing to have a coffee date with someone whose profile didn't really impress me at first.
> 
> It's just the nature of the game. Online dating may be one of the most shallow, bigoted means of finding new relationships, but unfortunately I have little other recourse.


So you're saying in order to be not shallow and non-akin to racism I should give every guy who comes my way a chance? 

It's not at all comarable to racism, beacues that would imply that you are obligated to choose someone emotionally and sexually to treat them well. You can only choose one person this way. I can respect someone's human rights, freedom, and soul as an individual. That does not mean I want to pursue a relationship with them if they have not attracted my interest.


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

MissingLinc said:


> I've seen a ton of good ideas expressed on the forum on changing the dating site format, the reason I don't think any of it will be implemented is that it would reduce profit margins.


 Lol. Have you even tried EHarmony? The selection process is way different. You go through a much bigger process but it has a higher success rate. And it's for the most serious minded. It's more money too but you really get what you pay for. And I'm not into skimping when it comes to finding my mate.


However, I'm satisfied with Match. Always has worked for me and I've met some beautiful people on there. 

My sister found her life partner on Eharmony. She's been with him for 5 years.


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## MissingLinc (Jan 20, 2012)

pinkrasputin said:


> Lol. Have you even tried EHarmony? The selection process is way different. You go through a much bigger process but it has a higher success rate. And it's for the most serious minded. It's more money too but you really get what you pay for. And I'm not into skimping when it comes to finding my mate.
> 
> 
> However, I'm satisfied with Match. Always has worked for me and I've met some beautiful people on there.
> ...


I have, got some really bad matches, which I mentioned on a PoF thread elsewhere. One of my eHarmony matches already had a boyfriend.


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

MissingLinc said:


> I have, got some really bad matches, which I mentioned on a PoF thread elsewhere. One of my eHarmony matches already had a boyfriend.


Omg. _What town are you in_?


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## MissingLinc (Jan 20, 2012)

pinkrasputin said:


> Omg. _What town are you in_?


New York suburbs. :-X

That raises a good point though, a lot of it has to do with location too. I sometimes go nationwide because of it, but understandably, not a lot of women are keen on long distance relationships, if any.

On the upside, there's a chance I might move soon and might experience better luck then, especially if I live in a city.


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

MissingLinc said:


> New York suburbs. :-X
> 
> That raises a good point though, a lot of it has to do with location too. I sometimes go nationwide because of it, but understandably, not a lot of women are keen on long distance relationships, if any.
> 
> On the upside, there's a chance I might move soon and might experience better luck then, especially if I live in a city.


Town has a TON to do with it. I recently moved away for one year. Right before I moved back to my current town, I went back on Match. I could see clearly the quality of men and the ratio that were asking me in each toem. Lol. If I hadn't already made my decision to move back here, that confirmed it.

Yeah, take heart. I once knew a guy from any itty bitty little rural area in New York. Such a sweet guy. Was in his early 30s, had his college degrees, owned a home and made good money. He was very smart, kind, and wasn't overweight and....

He never had a girlfriend. But he wanted one. It was sad. He was such a good guy. I remember we chatted about how not even Match could help with the ratio of men and women in his little town. Not much I could do for him here in California.


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## MissingLinc (Jan 20, 2012)

pinkrasputin said:


> Town has a TON to do with it. I recently moved away for one year. Right before I moved back to my current town, I went back on Match. I could see clearly the quality of men and the ratio that were asking me in each toem. Lol. If I hadn't already made my decision to move back here, that confirmed it.
> 
> Yeah, take heart. I once knew a guy from any itty bitty little rural area in New York. Such a sweet guy. Was in his early 30s, had his college degrees, owned a home and made good money. He was very smart, kind, and wasn't overweight and....
> 
> He never had a girlfriend. But he wanted one. It was sad. He was such a good guy. I remember we chatted about how not even Match could help with the ratio of men and women in his little town. Not much I could do for him here in California.


That's why I started traveling a lot more often. It's still tough due to the randomness of it but visiting touristy spots helps as it's expected to chat it up with strangers more. I had some great prospects in Dallas and Los Angeles but just couldn't stick around long enough to build on it. It is part of why I'm pushing for an internet job where I can go anywhere. Then I'd just simply hit the road and keep traveling at my leisure until I meet someone, lol.


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## alphacat (Mar 17, 2011)

MissingLinc said:


> That's why I started traveling a lot more often. It's still tough due to the randomness of it but visiting touristy spots helps as it's expected to chat it up with strangers more. I had some great prospects in Dallas and Los Angeles but just couldn't stick around long enough to build on it. It is part of why I'm pushing for an internet job where I can go anywhere. Then I'd just simply hit the road and keep traveling at my leisure until I meet someone, lol.


It seems like meeting someone is the priority in your life now. To be honest, most women can smell desperation easily, and it's not a good trait to have. 

Perhaps this can help:


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## MissingLinc (Jan 20, 2012)

alphacat said:


> It seems like meeting someone is the priority in your life now. To be honest, most women can smell desperation easily, and it's not a good trait to have.


So wanting to meet someone equals desperation?

If I were desperate I'd be married now. No, actually I'd be divorced with 80% of my checks going to alimony or child support.

I would like to share my life with someone. It's one of my strongest desires but it doesn't overwhelm me so much that I wind up making some really bad choices and settling as a result. I'm sorry though if my wanting love and companionship offends women so much.


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## Lumen Animae (Jan 31, 2012)

Women (at least as far as I know) are not offended by someone who wants love and companionship. Personally, desperation is not attractive only because it makes you feel like the person is with you because they want a girlfriend or a wife and not because they want you as a person.


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

alphacat said:


> It seems like meeting someone is the priority in your life now. To be honest, most women can smell desperation easily, and it's not a good trait to have.


This is why I like Match. We all go there in search of a relationship. It's why we pay the money and why there is a guarantee. There is no question about someone's intentions. If someone were to want something else, they are a bad egg and not using the sight for what it's intended. I met my boyfriend on Match. I don't think he was desperate at all. But I do think he was picky. And he is an introvert, it's a better system for him to approach. I'm attracted to introverts so it's a good place for me to go to. 

We all have values. Values what we can base our life's choices on. These values can change over the years as life changes and they are unique to every individual and no one can tell you that you are "wrong". 

For instance, a value of a mother might be to live next to a good school so that her children can go there. She prioritizes her life around that value and moves if she has to in order to keep her children in a good school. However, once kids are grown and out of the house, her top values/priorities may change in life accordingly.

If someone feels they are ready to be in a relationship, and makes that a priority, there is nothing wrong with basing major life decisions around that priority. _It's a key to happiness._ @%1; will be moving towards what he wants in life as he takes time to fulfill one of his top priorities.

Now, unhappiness often stems from moving _against_ our values. For instance, say one of my top priorities is to "be a better mom" and "stay actively involved" in my daughter's life, yet I keep taking job positions that move me away from her where I spend 0 time with her. Soon, I don't even know her. I am moving against my priority. I will become frustrated with the job I take. I won't have peace.

Your values are your own. I've learned that if you try to force a value "I should be more focused on the job than a relationship", it will catch up to you. You are not achieving what you want. You might find yourself sabotaging the job every time you realize you want love. Or you might just become depressed.

For one man, his priorities might be 1. Fostering a healthy Marriage 2. Financial independence/providing 3. Health and Fitness

Once he knows those values, he can make any choices in his life that don't conflict.

It took me years to figure out my top priorities are 1. Being a an active/provider Mom 2. Having a loving relationship 3. Health and fitness

I own a business, but the choices I make regarding my business has to be in line with my top values. Any time I make a choice that goes against my values, it will bring great sadness. It will feel like I'm forcing myself into a place I don't belong. I can't tell you why I have these values. They just are. They are truly my non-negotiables and no person can pay me any amount of money to stray left or right of them. It is my default position. 

I agree that women or men can pick up on desperation. I think not being picky about a partner can seem more desperate than anything. I want a guy who has _chosen_ me rather than me being the only thing he thought he could get.  There is no security in that. 

But when Misslogic says he wants to move and perhaps that will help his love life, I don't think that is desperation. If someone wants a loving relationship, they can have one. Him taking the steps to move in that direction is better than those people who complain all the time that they don't have one, yet they do _nothing_ to improve their situation or themselves.


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## MissingLinc (Jan 20, 2012)

pinkrasputin said:


> I agree that women or men can pick up on desperation. I think not being picky about a partner can seem more desperate than anything. I want a guy who has chosen me rather than me being the only thing he thought he could get.  There is no security in that.


THIS.

It's why so many marriages end up in shambles too. I'm one of the few who would rather stay single then endure that kind of hell.




> But when Misslogic says he wants...


Who? LOL :kitteh:

Speaking or prioritizing, mine has been financial and career independence (including finding a new home), health, and a loving relationship in that order. I've done pretty well for the first two, but the third has given me all kinds of grief. Because I have no desire to remain in New York, I'm hoping by finding a new state or locale I'd be content to settle in that eventually the loving relationship part will take care of itself.

I've actually hoped online dating would help in this regard, if I met someone nice I could visit her region and get a sense of the locale, whether I might like living there.... until I got an obscenity laced message from someone asking me if I was a retard and unable to comprehend that her match preferences are for men that only live within 50 miles of her.

Oooooooooooooookay. O_O


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## Lumen Animae (Jan 31, 2012)

MissingLinc said:


> until I got an obscenity laced message from someone asking me if I was a retard and unable to comprehend that her match preferences are for men that only live within 50 miles of her.


I find this to be so funny, when people claim that they are looking for their soul mate but that person should live close to them. I have friends like that, they expect that they will find the love of their life in one town and it doesn’t even occur to them that the man of their dreams could live far faaaaar away. I also have friends who have met the love of their life while traveling or going working or studying abroad.


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

MissingLinc said:


> until I got an obscenity laced message from someone asking me if I was a retard and unable to comprehend that her match preferences are for men that only live within 50 miles of her.
> 
> Oooooooooooooookay. O_O


 One of the main reasons I like online dating is because I don't like when random strangers approach me in public. They know nothing about me and I hate being put in that position. At least on Match, I can list my values, preferences, and what I'm looking for. I can put it out there. A person is better informed when they approach me. 

When someone ignores my preferences or values when they are clearly stated, it offends me greatly. Sometimes I've responded "Um..did you look at the differences in our religious views?". And they give me the lame response, "Yeah, but stuff like that doesn't matter to me." That pisses me off, because it matters to ME and I took the time to list it on my profile. 

If someone doesn't care about something, there is a "no preference" button. But they don't state their preference and write a paragraph about it. Lol.

Guys who choose to ignore this are setting themselves up for failure. You should know you are taking that risk.


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## MissingLinc (Jan 20, 2012)

pinkrasputin said:


> Guys who choose to ignore this are setting themselves up for failure. You should know you are taking that risk.


Except that if they took the time to read my profile it clearly says that I travel a lot and would be willing to move to any region. That may not be enough, which I'd understand, but it doesn't deserve rude and unhinged responses, especially when they're demonstrating a PREFERENCE, which leaves open the possibility for exceptions. I do indicate my freedom to travel more easily when messaging someone to see if they'll make a possible exception, but eh, I wonder if I should even bother.

This shit really brings out the worst in people.


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## dejavu (Jun 23, 2010)

MissingLinc said:


> Except that if they took the time to read my profile it clearly says that I travel a lot and would be willing to move to any region. That may not be enough, which I'd understand, but it doesn't deserve rude and unhinged responses, especially when they're demonstrating a PREFERENCE, which leaves open the possibility for exceptions. I do indicate my freedom to travel more easily when messaging someone to see if they'll make a possible exception, but eh, I wonder if I should even bother.
> 
> This shit really brings out the worst in people.


You do seem to be getting very defensive in this thread. I'm sure it's just relating to your frustration over the situation, but I just wanted to point it out. I hope that you are not displaying the same frustration on the dating site, even if you're feeling it.

As for the quote above, I just wanted to weigh in on that. I've done long distance relationships before and in many ways, they were wonderful. One thing that never failed to bother me was the moving aspect, though. In the end, somebody has to move. For the person who moves, they're uprooting their whole life and leaving behind loved ones. For the person staying put, they're telling someone to come be near them when they are practically the only motivator for the other person to even be there. That makes me uncomfortable, and I doubt that I am the only one. There's so much pressure involved. On top of all that, it's very difficult to actually know a person until you've physically been around them for a long time. I can completely understand why a person would not be willing to date someone who's open to moving anywhere.


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## MissingLinc (Jan 20, 2012)

dejavu said:


> As for the quote above, I just wanted to weigh in on that. I've done long distance relationships before and in many ways, they were wonderful. One thing that never failed to bother me was the moving aspect, though. In the end, somebody has to move. For the person who moves, they're uprooting their whole life and leaving behind loved ones. For the person staying put, they're telling someone to come be near them when they are practically the only motivator for the other person to even be there. That makes me uncomfortable, and I doubt that I am the only one. There's so much pressure involved. On top of all that, it's very difficult to actually know a person until you've physically been around them for a long time. I can completely understand why a person would not be willing to date someone who's open to moving anywhere.


And yet, I see long distance relationships occurring all the time. The resistance to the idea only seems to happen in you know, my case. Anyone else, hell the guy could be on fucking Mars, but because they luuuuuuuuuuuuv each other they'll find a way to make it work.

But hell, let's just shit on my ass and call me a fucking retard for even exploring that possibility.


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## dejavu (Jun 23, 2010)

MissingLinc said:


> And yet, I see long distance relationships occurring all the time. The resistance to the idea only seems to happen in you know, my case. Anyone else, hell the guy could be on fucking Mars, but because they luuuuuuuuuuuuv each other they'll find a way to make it work.
> 
> But hell, let's just shit on my ass and call me a fucking retard for even exploring that possibility.


Right, well...this is unpleasant. You're frustrated and I get that, but I doubt any of us can help you while you're this upset.


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## MissingLinc (Jan 20, 2012)

dejavu said:


> Right, well...this is unpleasant. You're frustrated and I get that, but I doubt any of us can help you while you're this upset.


I think I need to take a break for a while. I have two prospects so far, so maybe this will eventually be a moot point.


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## johnjohnjohn (Jan 17, 2012)

it's a numbers game, pure and simple. She'll probably have more e-mails than she'll be able to read in a week; and if she's interested in all the flowery prose, more power to the both of you. Heck, just ask someone out for coffee and spare the words.


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