# Selfish love vs Selfless love



## Sai

love is a different thing for every person


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## Life.Is.A.Game

The Last Human said:


> Selfless love is counterproductive and undesirable. If practiced consistently, one would love an unrepentant pedophile serial killer as much as then love their partner. The world would be a bad place if too many people did that.


Well the way I see it is that if everyone practices selfless love, people won't become pedophiles and serial killers. I truly believe that what everyone needs is love in a selfless way (acceptance, support, trust...etc). (this is just how i see things.)


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## Life.Is.A.Game

treeghost said:


> So in order to selflessly love, one needs _self_ love first and foremost since selfish love fills that empty space, right? Selfless love is just self-sufficiency and being healthy enough to not be attached to people, thus being okay with 'letting' them go, letting them have their own free will.


Exactly, well said


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## Life.Is.A.Game

Nowhere Man said:


> But they do. While a certain degree of independence is necessary for good mental health, nobody is an island. People's words and actions affect others, whether they want to admit it or not. If someone is verbally/emotionally abusive and their spouse leaves them, who is more to blame, the person being abusive, for forcing their partner to suffer, or the person who left, for practicing "selfish love"?


No one should be forced to stay with an emotionally abusive partner, so from what I believe, anyone is free to stay or go in a relationship. And I do believe that you can live without being affected by other people, I speak from experience. Sometimes I do fall, but my ultimate goal is to not fall anymore and continue in this belief because I feel that more people are affected in a positive way by my behavior then if i were to be affected by them negatively. I do let myself be affected in a positive way, like if someone is happy, i am happy as well, but if they are miserable I try to give a piece of advice but I don't let myself affected by their misery because they are miserable because of themselves anyway, not because of me, if they take it out on me it's only because they know no other way, we are humans and we make mistakes and we take our anger out on others, but the goal is to not do that and to look really deep and see what the issue is and what is really making us angry and why and then fix it.


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## niss

I think there is a break down in the understanding of the words used.

Selfish (self-seeking) love is necessary and is what brings us to the bargaining table - we are looking out for our own well being and the well being of those associated with us.

Selfless (altruism) love is loving without expectation - is the most pure love and is truly difficult for a human to accomplish.

Self-centered (making one's self the center of everything) love is loving someone or something only for what it, or they, can do for you. This love is fixated on one's self or ego.


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## Life.Is.A.Game

sarek said:


> I think the relationship I had with my gf is a case in point. I am certain it started purely selflessly at first with my only concern always being her happiness.
> But i think the big pitfall is when you receive back enormous amounts of love. Its just like suddenly receiving lots of money, it tends to make you protective of what you have. And there is also an addictive element in play. Love after all does wonders for your serotonin levels and that works just like a drug.


I guess it depends what you do with all that love you receive just like what you do with huge amount of cash. You might be overwhelmed at first but you can't let yourself get addicted because then it turns into something else and is no longer love.


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## Life.Is.A.Game

niss said:


> I think there is a break down in the understanding of the words used.
> 
> Selfish (self-seeking) love is necessary and is what brings us to the bargaining table - we are looking out for our own well being and the well being of those associated with us.
> 
> Selfless (altruism) love is loving without expectation - is the most pure love and is truly difficult for a human to accomplish.
> 
> Self-centered (making one's self the center of everything) love is loving someone or something only for what it, or they, can do for you. This love is fixated on one's self or ego.


I guess you can break it down that way, but I don't think loving oneself is selfish. I think if we understand the fact that you can't give selfless love to others if you don't love yourself first, then wouldn't that make love of oneself selfless? I guess it's in how we see love of oneself. I love myself but I don't see anything selfish about my actions or my intentions.


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## niss

Life.Is.A.Game said:


> I guess you can break it down that way, but I don't think loving oneself is selfish. I think if we understand the fact that you can't give selfless love to others if you don't love yourself first, then wouldn't that make love of oneself selfless? I guess it's in how we see love of oneself. I love myself but I don't see anything selfish about my actions or my intentions.


The distinction between self-centered and selfish has become blurred in common usage.

I'm selfish when I look out for my best interests. I'm also selfish when I look out for the best interests of my family, in making sure all of our needs are met, above the needs of others. It is necessary for survival and well being.

Making ourselves the center, or being self-centered is what we usually mean when we say selfish.


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## Nowhere Man

Life.Is.A.Game said:


> No one should be forced to stay with an emotionally abusive partner, so from what I believe, anyone is free to stay or go in a relationship.


I agree, they shouldn't be forced to stay in an unhealthy relationship. But in many cases, they are. Whether it be physical, emotional, or financial coercion, people often remain in abusive relationships against their will. If such a person were to stop loving their partner/abuser, I wouldn't view it as an especially selfish act.



> And I do believe that you can live without being affected by other people, I speak from experience.


Aside from certain mental disorders in which the afflicted tend to be unaffected by other humans and their feelings (Antisocial Personality Disorder, Sociopathy, etc.), we're all affected by each other to some degree. If a loved one dies, do we not mourn? If they speak hurtful words, are we not upset? And even when you take emotional affection out of the equation, I'm pretty sure most people wear clothing, eat food, etc. that they bought from a store, or even if they made it themselves, chances are they bought the raw materials necessary at a store. So unless someone is a pure schizoid personality who lives off the land with zero human contact, he/she is affected by other people. We all need each other, whether we like to admit it or not. 



> Sometimes I do fall, but my ultimate goal is to not fall anymore and continue in this belief because I feel that more people are affected in a positive way by my behavior then if i were to be affected by them negatively.


Agreed.



> I do let myself be affected in a positive way, like if someone is happy, i am happy as well, but if they are miserable I try to give a piece of advice but I don't let myself affected by their misery because they are miserable because of themselves anyway, not because of me


What if someone was raped and/or assaulted? Is it their own fault that they feel the inevitable (negative) emotions of guilt, regret, anger, hopelessness, and helplessness because of an evil committed by someone else? Do they have only themselves to blame?



> if they take it out on me it's only because they know no other way, we are humans and we make mistakes and we take our anger out on others, but the goal is to not do that and to look really deep and see what the issue is and what is really making us angry and why and then fix it.


So you ARE affected by others - you just try to make sure you're affected in a healthy way (despite failing at times due to being human). I'm pretty sure everyone does that, as it's quite intuitive.

In closing, I'd like to add that, based on my real life experiences, those who accuse others of selfishness tend to be the most selfish of all. Usually, they've sucked another person dry to the point where they have nothing left to give, and when that moment comes, the inevitable reaction is "You're so selfish!"

As Voltaire said, "Men hate the individual whom they call avaricious only because nothing can be gained from him."


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## Life.Is.A.Game

@Nowhere Man, my beliefs are quite "different" and I don't want to get into it, which I would need to do in order to explain or answer your questions. We can just leave it at what it is for now, I do appreciate your response. Peace.


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## The Last Human

Life.Is.A.Game said:


> Well the way I see it is that if everyone practices selfless love, people won't become pedophiles and serial killers.


But that's an unachievable scenario. Some people enjoy harming and dominating others. Some are only attracted to children. No amount of love showered upon them can substitute for the feelings they get from acting on those impulses.


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## LibertyPrime

hmm I think I learned it through a relationship that I had, or I could be deludig myself and I'm selfish. Idk if it was initially there, but despite leaving the relationship for various reasons..I still care about her, If she needs any advice or help with something I'm still there, I'm happy if she is happy especially if she finds a better boyfriend ten I was (which shouldn't be too hard). Its like from my side we are best friends and she can ask for anything minus sex or commitment to a romantic relationship.

I don't feel like I need her, but knowing she is in my life makes me happy and  warm inside....its weird. :frustrating:


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## sarek

I think selfishness and selflessness are on a continuum. Striving for perfection means attempting to become more selfless and less selfish. Perfect selflessness is impossible to attain for any material being, its like trying to reach the edge of infinity. The Biblical metaphor is that you can not see the face of God and live.


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## strawberryLola

I think selfish love comes from a place of entitlement- like I own you- you need to make me feel this way. Selfish love is about control.

I don't see wanting to be around those who make us feel good about ourselves as being selfish. People share an affinity for one another for selfless reasons- ex- they're on the same wavelength and are in tune with one another. Naturally, they gravitate towards each other because they re-affirm each other on a deeper level. 

It's selfish when you depend on someone for your own identity. Finding a love that is secure is not selfish love, either. It's not selfish to look for stable relationships that bring a sense of peace in one's life through a couple's ability to commit and see eye-to-eye. Unstable relationships where passion exists without commitment can also be selfish love if it does not contain a level of empathy and respect (elements of both secure relationships that make us feel great about ourselves).


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## Life.Is.A.Game

strawberryLola said:


> I think selfish love comes from a place of entitlement- like I own you- you need to make me feel this way. Selfish love is about control.
> 
> I don't see wanting to be around those who make us feel good about ourselves as being selfish. People share an affinity for one another for selfless reasons- ex- they're on the same wavelength and are in tune with one another. Naturally, they gravitate towards each other because they re-affirm each other on a deeper level.
> 
> It's selfish when you depend on someone for your own identity. Finding a love that is secure is not selfish love, either. It's not selfish to look for stable relationships that bring a sense of peace in one's life through a couple's ability to commit and see eye-to-eye. Unstable relationships where passion exists without commitment can also be selfish love if it does not contain a level of empathy and respect (elements of both secure relationships that make us feel great about ourselves).


Yes, I agree. I was thinking more about depending on others to make us feel a certain way and being so attached that we start blaming them for the way we feel. 
People have told me they had to give up their passions (careers, hobbies, etc) for their SO because of their SOs insecurities. So that's where all this was coming from (I possibly didn't word it correctly but that's what I meant). But ya, I agree with what you said.


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## StephMC

Definitely agree on the selfish/selfless love differences. And really like this example:



MuChApArAdOx said:


> _Selfish love: example - "i love you because of the things that YOU do for ME which make ME feel like that emptiness inside of ME becomes FILLED. i love you for the things that you do for ME. If you do not satisfy my needs and create the illusion of filling that emptiness inside of ME which in reality can only be filled by myself, then i will not continue loving you. I love you because I feel attached to you, and I feel attached to you because you create the illusion of filling up my insecurities. I don't love you for the things which I choose do for you, but I love you for the things that you choose to do for me._
> 
> _Selfless love (the purest form of love): example - "i love you because i am making a CHOICE to have YOU in my life. I love you because I WANT YOU, not because I feel that I NEED YOU. I want to give to you and care for you and do things for you and i do not care if i get anything in return. *I am already stable and secure enough with myself that I do not need you in my life.* I am able to love myself (loving ourselves means taking care of ourselves, loving ourselves is not *********) and therefore am able to love you (take care of you) without feeling the need for you to love me (take care of me) in return."_


I agree with the bolded, but have had disagreements with others about this concept in the past. So _why_ is self-love or not needing someone so important for selfless love?


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## WickerDeer

Life.Is.A.Game said:


> Selfish love is wanting to be with someone because of how they make you feel. Selfless love is wanting someone to be happy regardless of their choices.
> 
> Selfless love allows freedom, selfish love is not really love, it's fear of losing someone that makes you feel "safe, in control, secure".
> 
> Do you agree or disagree?


I agree, and I think it's a good definition.

I think that people need to be both selfish and selfless in love. 

But, that their ideal value in love--the purpose of love to them--is important. They need to be aware of what love means to them, and so does their partner.

I think that people often make the mistake of assuming that their partner has the same underlying ideal about love. 

I couldn't understand why someone would want to be in love with someone, unless they cared about the person deeply enough to want the best for them--uniquely for them. So--for example, if my partner had different needs than me, that I didn't understand, and that inconvenienced me in some way, then I would still appreciate and respect those needs because that is what is best for my partner--because my partner is a unique person in themselves, and that is what I love about them (not just what they give to me) I would think that the underlying purpose of love is to love another, to refrain from hurting them, and to want them to be happy and healthy. That both partners take pleasure in knowing that their partner is thriving and pleased.

But my ex could not understand why people would get into a relationship for a reason other than their own personal gain. People got together because they wanted a baby, and their partner would have it for them. Or because they loved hiking, and then they would have a hiking partner. The highest ideal of love to him was this--the relationship in which you get what you want--and your partner gives it to you. Maybe a mutually selfish relationship would work for him (but I think it would only work for him if both partners wanted exactly the same thing--and were able to provide what the other part wanted at all times--which I think is pretty impossible.) 

I see this kind of like differing ethical standpoints--if you believe your highest ethical purpose is to act in a way that will bring you the most happiness, even if at the expense of others, then you should not be in a relationship with someone who believes their highest purpose is to act in a way that will bring the maximum happiness to everyone, or to treat others as you would want to be treated yourself. 

I think that everyone (or most people) have a mixture of selfish and selfless motivations for love. I get jealous and want things from my partner. I want attention--I care about the pleasant feelings someone inspires in me. But, the underlying ideal--the basic foundation for the loving relationship (for each partner) is very important to remember and acknowledge for both partners.


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## MuChApArAdOx

StephMC said:


> Definitely agree on the selfish/selfless love differences. And really like this example:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with the bolded, but have had disagreements with others about this concept in the past. So _why_ is self-love or not needing someone so important for selfless love?


I think when we love _ourselves first_, it leads to not being so needy or dependent on other people. So when we enter a relationship knowing that we_ don't need_ this person to _complete us_, instead we _want_ this person to share in our life experience rather than_ needing._. If and when we don't/can't love ourselves, it could lead to us looking for others to somehow validate who we are/making ourselves believe that we somehow need them to make us happy. 

Imagine feeling really good about who you are, then you let someone into your life romantically. You don`t need this person to make you happy, although you are willing to make compromises and sacrifices in order to have a healthy relationship. That to me is selfless, because you`re capable of taking care of yourself, yet you choose to do it with another.

This may or may not make sense, still drinking my Am coffee trying to wake up


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## Ryan

MuChApArAdOx said:


> I see selfless love as something unconditional. Where selfish love comes with conditions, expectations. This is how one person describes the differences between the two. We can all perceive what fits our our model of love, although i thought these were interesting perspectives.
> 
> _Selfish love: example - "i love you because of the things that YOU do for ME which make ME feel like that emptiness inside of ME becomes FILLED. i love you for the things that you do for ME. If you do not satisfy my needs and create the illusion of filling that emptiness inside of ME which in reality can only be filled by myself, then i will not continue loving you. I love you because I feel attached to you, and I feel attached to you because you create the illusion of filling up my insecurities. I don't love you for the things which I choose do for you, but I love you for the things that you choose to do for me._
> 
> _Selfless love (the purest form of love): example - "i love you because i am making a CHOICE to have YOU in my life. I love you because I WANT YOU, not because I feel that I NEED YOU. I want to give to you and care for you and do things for you and i do not care if i get anything in return. I am already stable and secure enough with myself that I do not need you in my life. I am able to love myself (loving ourselves means taking care of ourselves, loving ourselves is not *********) and therefore am able to love you (take care of you) without feeling the need for you to love me (take care of me) in return."_


This is confounding to me. You say selfish love comes with conditions and expectations, inferring that selfless love does not. 

Think of a parent/child relationship. The parent of that child will have many expectations of that child--does that mean it's not selfless? Demanding a person better themselves and make good choices doesn't constitute selfish love IMO. And even in adult life, if you literally didn't have any conditions or expectations, that directly infers you mean you would literally love them unconditionally no matter what they did--to you or anyone else. Where are your morals and convictions? Where do you draw the line? Where are your standards? Do you have self-respect?

Selfish love: There has to be a give and take. If you are completely autonomous (maybe that's not the right word?) to function JUST fine without this person, and how they make you feel is more or less a bonus, then you are NOT in love. If you're with someone who you are not attracted to, and who doesn't do anything for you (emotionally, sexually, etc.) then, again, you are not in love. You cannot be as unhealthy as you describe and have these feelings of fulfillment. If you are in a relationship JUST to have X Y Z needs met (Maybe she cooks dinner for you ever night, tells you you're a King and brings you lunch ever day at work) then you're NOT in love. 

Selfless love: Of course you love because you want to, but also because you need to. You find someone who you share a real deep bond with, and you sure do need that person. Our entire existence is in search of a true, deep, mutual love, and just as much of a choice it is to be with that person, it's also very much a need. 

Being stable and secure in yourself is the only way to really have a healthy relationship, but you DO need that connection with someone else; it is VITAL to your survival. Loving yourself is also important. "...able to love you without feeling the need for you to love me in return". Do you really mean that? Do you really understand your implications? Do you really think you could be in a healthy relationship if your partner didn't love you back?

Love has only one definition.


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## queenofthenile

TRUE love is selfless love i think....It is because people are becoming more selfish and lovers and themselves that we see evil (thats what the Bible says)...

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. [SUP]5 [/SUP]It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. [SUP]7 [/SUP]It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.

1 Corinthians 13:4-8

If you experience love in it's true meaning...it is beyond any other human experience one can have


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## niss

Life.Is.A.Game said:


> Are you saying loving someone is a choice?


Yes, it is a choice, a decision.


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## Life.Is.A.Game

niss said:


> Yes, it is a choice, a decision.


Really? How do you make such a decision?


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## niss

Life.Is.A.Game said:


> Really? How do you make such a decision?


Everyone makes that decision based on data received via their senses, processed through emotions, feelings, and logic.


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## Life.Is.A.Game

niss said:


> Everyone makes that decision based on data received via their senses, processed through emotions, feelings, and logic.


But that doesn't seem like a conscious decision though. Maybe more subconscious? Or you're saying that you can control how you feel at any given time? If you can't control your feelings then you can't control love since love is a feeling, right? 
Can one control their feelings at all times?


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## niss

Life.Is.A.Game said:


> But that doesn't seem like a conscious decision though. Maybe more subconscious? Or you're saying that you can control how you feel at any given time? If you can't control your feelings then you can't control love since love is a feeling, right?
> Can one control their feelings at all times?


Feelings? Or emotions?

We can control our feelings, but it isn't always immediate or easy. Emotions are much harder to control. As a point of reference, emotions tend to have a physiological response associated with them and are intense and are sustainable for only a short time, while feelings are more of a mood associated with our emotions and are less intense, but are more sustainable over time. Therefore, lust is an emotion, but being in love is a feeling.


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## Lilsnowy

So much to consider here.

I think we choose to love in some instances. We initially love our children so powerfully, but there comes a time where we show we still do love them by choosing to *act* loving, in spite of the ways they may hurt us. That could take many forms.

Selfless love is choosing to love when it is not "deserved" or when there is no obvious return. It's being committed to bless someone, care for someone or not retaliate against someone. Choosing to love is to act in a loving way because we are committed to being loving, _no matter what._ It takes growth and commitment to love unselfishly. It's evidenced by kindness toward a person (in whatever form they need) even if they are not capable of being loving themselves.

The choice to love often includes the choice to forgive. If we can't forgive, it can be impossible to love. When Jesus said we should love others as ourselves, I think he meant we should give others the kindness, care, and forgiveness that God gave us and that we usually* give **ourselves* because we let ourselves off the hook all the time but rarely do we let others off as easily. 

We don't have to stay in abusive relationships, though we may choose to continue to love an abusive person. It isn't selfish to care enough about our selves to be free from abuse the way we would lovingly encourage someone else to be free from it.


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## Ubuntu

I consider 'selfish' love to be emotional attachment and sympathy or affective empathy to be a personal identification with/concern for the happiness and suffering of others regardless of whether or not they're objects of affection but I wouldn't call that 'selfless' since you're using your own emotional state as a reference to why theirs is worth caring about.


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## Mange

I think that everyone trying to agree on what love is is completely ridiculous. There is no one definition of what love is, it depends on the circumstances, the individuals. And to say, "love is forever, it has no beginning or end." that applies to you, and I'm sure a lot of other people, but not to me. 

Selfless love is unconditional love, loving someone regardless of their feelings for you, or what they have to offer you. And I believe it is a choice. Apathy is a choice, hatred is a choice, and love is a choice. It's all your perspective on the person, the situation..

Selfish love can be a lot of things. Demanding something in order for you to love the other person, being attached to someone but only loving if they love you back. Being emotionally dependent on someone you love strikes me as selfish somehow too. NEEDING them desperately seems selfish, imposing.. Lots of different ways to spin it with no real 100% right answer.. still an interesting topic though.


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