# Emotional Manipulation and Type



## chimeric (Oct 15, 2011)

Fi tends to dig into someone's inner workings, get a deep sense of who they are, and then attack and shred them through Te if they get pissed off, utilizing all that stored-up knowledge.

Not really manipulation, but a different weapon in the ol' emotional arsenal.


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

I couldn't be manipulative even if I wanted to. The 2 ESFPs in my family are however manipulative even if they don't intend to. Probably has to do with their Se reacting fast to what is being said and then they push their opinion down your throat as if they were perfect. They are really good at making you feel bad if you don't have your mental defense up every time they are around.

Not saying it's an ESFP thing, I have just met many ESFPs outside my family that got double-morals that work towards a form of game of guilt. My values are a lot more steady than theirs.
I had a debate with a communist ESFP who suddenly took to the defense of rich people when I made a comment about how rich people tend to be the first people to buy new stuff with the side-effect of them being less well made (thus risking malfunctions etc.) than the later products that the middle-class families would later be able to buy. We were discussing neural implants.


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## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

Is it just me, or does it seem like Fe types are often the people who might be described as very "outward?" Sort of like "heart-on-sleeve"...the people who might be described as very "open," perhaps? Some of this might be generalization, but I tend to get this sense that these types are often viewed as not really having secret ambitions or a deeper core, regardless of whether or not this is actually the case, so then, their fans or what have you might get annoyed when they find out that the person has a darker side characterized by personal opinions that aren't just out to please the collective...


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## chimeric (Oct 15, 2011)

JungyesMBTIno said:


> Is it just me, or does it seem like Fe types are often the people who might be described as very "outward?" Sort of like "heart-on-sleeve"...the people who might be described as very "open," perhaps? Some of this might be generalization, but I tend to get this sense that these types are often viewed as not really having secret ambitions or a deeper core, regardless of whether or not this is actually the case...


They hold back in a different way that is hard to describe. ISFJs, INFJs, and ISTPs in particular strike me as reserved/closed-off sometimes.

I think these types might actually be more heart-on-sleeve than I often perceive them to be.


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## Old Intern (Nov 20, 2012)

@*JungyesMBTIno* This might not be technical or deep but I would like your input if you care to give any.

The Fe-Ti combination and The Fi-Te combination difference about ego investment and where our flexibility lies.
Diagrams (slightly blurred but enlargeable with click) relate to what you said above with Fe dom.

http://personalitycafe.com/cognitive-functions/138698-judging-functions-my-theory-part-one.html
http://personalitycafe.com/cognitiv...-functions-part-2-4-see-judging-part-one.html


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## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

chimeric said:


> They hold back in a different way that is hard to describe. ISFJs, INFJs, and ISTPs in particular strike me as reserved/closed-off sometimes.
> 
> I think these types might actually be more heart-on-sleeve than I often perceive them to be.


Well, I definitely do not mean reserved/open in a persona sense (like, I don't mean shy/outgoing). That's not type - that would be a situational persona. I mean it like their emotional activity is largely conducted from without (based on the outer atmosphere of a situation or another person's behavior). Sort of like they're a lot colder (or more neutral, maybe always thinking) on the inside than what they appear to be outwardly. Easily sensitive to responses from the outside world, but not really sensitive to inner emotional states in terms of what influences their emotions to begin with about something. Face value responses to emotional stimuli. More "put-on" in appearance in a way that suits other people's aims rather than their own, even though this is still genuine. Just not the most personalized-looking feeling around - always looks like they're self-conscious when it's aimed at them rather than someone/something else.


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## chimeric (Oct 15, 2011)

JungyesMBTIno said:


> Sort of like they're a lot colder (or more neutral, maybe always thinking) on the inside than what they appear to be outwardly.


IxFJs definitely can come across as emotionally cold to me. And ISTPs -- no question. An IxFJ will check in, ask you how you are, tell you about their latest endeavors, cook you dinner, etc. but can also seem quite closed-off, particular, a little chilly.

Maybe we're understanding "inside" and "outside" differently, though? A primary focus of mine is how much someone lets me explore the inner nooks and crannies of their emotional life. That's how I define "heart-on-sleeve." So the first thing I notice may actually be what goes on "inside."



JungyesMBTIno said:


> Easily sensitive to responses from the outside world, but not really sensitive to inner emotional states in terms of what influences their emotions to begin with about something. Face value responses to emotional stimuli.


I could see that. Could certainly be that I try to see more than what is actually there. (When I dated an ISTP, this tendency to psychoanalyze got me into trouble.)


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## Erbse (Oct 15, 2010)

chimeric said:


> I could see that. Could certainly be that I try to see more than what is actually there. (When I dated an ISTP, this tendency to psychoanalyze got me into trouble.)


Oh, you one of those trying to interpret behavior solely through emotional motivation when there isn't one? :mellow:

Yes, annoying.


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## voicetrocity (Mar 31, 2012)

Acerbusvenator said:


> I couldn't be manipulative even if I wanted to. The 2 ESFPs in my family are however manipulative even if they don't intend to. *Probably has to do with their Se reacting fast to what is being said*and then they push their opinion down your throat as if they were perfect.*They are really good at making you feel bad if you don't have your mental defense up every time they are around.*


I can agree with Se reacting fast to what is being said- and being a reactive enneagram type, that probably adds a little something to my reacting to what's being said. However, I never think my thoughts are "perfect". I think my round-about way of finding out if a theory holds is conflict. I confront the thoughts head on almost to see how well the person stating those beliefs will defend them. There's also a sense of curiosity as to why said person believes what they do that probably adds to that to. 




> Not saying it's an ESFP thing, I have just met many ESFPs outside my family that got double-morals that work towards a form of game of guilt. My values are a lot more steady than theirs.


It's weird to hear you say "double-morals". I've never thought of myself like that. Sure, there are things I will defend rigidly, but there are also things I wouldn't even bat an eyelash at. It kind of all depends on what "value-button" you push, I suppose.


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## Snapple (Oct 11, 2012)

fourtines said:


> If we were to oversimplify, people would probably say FJs, and ExFPs make the best emotional manipulators? Right? Or that it's somehow related to Fe and Pe?
> 
> Would it be possible for an IxTJ to be a master manipulator of women's emotions? That doesn't seem right, does it?
> 
> ...


If someone hurts me or I perceive it as emotional manipulation on their side, I pretty much go to great length to make sure it's paid 10fold and I can be an expert at doing so, I've been accused of breaking people too many times. So I can explain this from my point of view: you f*** with me and refuse to correct or address the situation against my repeated clear warnings with specific indications on how to remedy the situation and why, I'll leave you in a bloody puddle of emotional/mental mayhem.
EDIT: Perhaps I should also add that being an introvert, I don't gain energy from interacting with people, so whatever extroverts perceive as "doing me good" or "fixing me" will actually harm me, if they insist on harming me with their "fixing" or manipulation, I'll eventually snap back and nothing except for them running like hell from me will fix the issue if they're stubborn and don't do exactly as told.


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## Snapple (Oct 11, 2012)

Acerbusvenator said:


> I couldn't be manipulative even if I wanted to. The 2 ESFPs in my family are however manipulative even if they don't intend to. Probably has to do with their Se reacting fast to what is being said and then they push their opinion down your throat as if they were perfect. They are really good at making you feel bad if you don't have your mental defense up every time they are around.
> 
> Not saying it's an ESFP thing, I have just met many ESFPs outside my family that got double-morals that work towards a form of game of guilt. My values are a lot more steady than theirs.
> I had a debate with a communist ESFP who suddenly took to the defense of rich people when I made a comment about how rich people tend to be the first people to buy new stuff with the side-effect of them being less well made (thus risking malfunctions etc.) than the later products that the middle-class families would later be able to buy. We were discussing neural implants.


Eh, sorry to break it to you, debating logically with all feelers will prove them to hold double-standards to you since it's not about logical reasoning it's about how it makes them feel. It's like a dog how can it bite you one day and let you cuddle it the next, very simple, depends on the mood and mood is influenced mostly by what you tell it.


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## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

chimeric said:


> IxFJs definitely can come across as emotionally cold to me. And ISTPs -- no question. An IxFJ will check in, ask you how you are, tell you about their latest endeavors, cook you dinner, etc. but can also seem quite closed-off, particular, a little chilly.
> 
> Maybe we're understanding "inside" and "outside" differently, though? A primary focus of mine is how much someone lets me explore the inner nooks and crannies of their emotional life. That's how I define "heart-on-sleeve." So the first thing I notice may actually be what goes on "inside."
> 
> ...


Well, I don't mean like not a warm presence (they often are definitely trying to be warm, especially depending on the persona - these normally show a much "friendlier" looking face to the world than Fi types), I mean it almost as a somewhat physical, somewhat intuitive observation about their feeling function's presence. Really nothing to do with the questions they ask. More like, the nature of their emotional responses has a very external locus of control - you kind of do not get the idea that they have a private inner life in terms of sentiments - it's all related to objective happenings, not really inner ideals they have for themselves.


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Snapple said:


> Eh, sorry to break it to you, debating logically with all feelers will prove them to hold double-standards to you since it's not about logical reasoning it's about how it makes them feel. It's like a dog how can it bite you one day and let you cuddle it the next, very simple, depends on the mood and mood is influenced mostly by what you tell it.


Eh, sorry to break it to you, you don't know much about MBTI and you should leave feelers alone because they are just as likely to be smart as thinkers. Or would you put yourself in an argument against for example @NighTi claiming that he's unable to form a rational thought because he got Fe aux? You got tertiary Fi so bite me.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

fourtines said:


> If we were to oversimplify, people would probably say FJs, and ExFPs make the best emotional manipulators? Right? Or that it's somehow related to Fe and Pe?
> 
> Would it be possible for an IxTJ to be a master manipulator of women's emotions? That doesn't seem right, does it?
> 
> ...


I don't find it unusal for someone whose not good at their own emotions to be good at manipulating the emotions of women, or men. It's almost subconscious in some people, consider narcissistic personality types, for example. A narcissist isn't normally consciously aware of his/her narcissistic behavior, but they are master manipulators of the emotions of others. They are essentially "emotional vampires" who feed on those emotions they generally manipulate others into expressing. 

I think, given the right circumstances, _any type _could be an expert emotional manipulator of women.


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## Snapple (Oct 11, 2012)

Acerbusvenator said:


> Eh, sorry to break it to you, you don't know much about MBTI and you should leave feelers alone because they are just as likely to be smart as thinkers. Or would you put yourself in an argument against for example @_NighTi_ claiming that he's unable to form a rational thought because he got Fe aux? You got tertiary Fi so bite me.


How the hell is smartness or IQ correlated to preference? Let's say you can "drive" or "walk" to a place, you prefer to "walk", does it imply you cannot "drive" ?
Want me to go into details on how the fact that you prefer to "feel" instead of "thinking" doesn't imply you can't perform the other just as well? You sound like a feeler to me, your conclusion is totally emotional not logical .


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Snapple said:


> How the hell is smartness or IQ correlated to preference? Let's say you can "drive" or "walk" to a place, you prefer to "walk", does it imply you cannot "drive" ?
> Want me to go into details on how the fact that you prefer to "feel" instead of "thinking" doesn't imply you can't perform the other just as well? You sound like a feeler to me, your conclusion is totally emotional not logical .





> Eh, sorry to break it to you, debating logically with all feelers will prove them to hold double-standards to you since *it's not about logical reasoning it's about how it makes them feel.*


Your argument is invalid.


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## Snapple (Oct 11, 2012)

Acerbusvenator said:


> Your argument is invalid.


I dont think you follow me here. If the context is less formal, like "friends" or outside working environment and pretty personal for a feeler, they will act on their preference which is unstable over time and changes like the wind with you if they KNOW you as a friend and are not BOUND/FORCED by external forces to use their "thinking" skills which may be better than a "thinking" type or worse, who cares.
Doesnt mean they can't be brilliant scientists or whatever in a formal workplace or something related and that's why you have the impression that they change opinion just because they don't have "thinking" as a preference, that's all I was trying to point, LOL. I hope I don't really have to "bite you"


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

Acerbusvenator said:


> Your argument is invalid.


For the benefit of the discussion, care to explain?


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

tanstaafl28 said:


> For the benefit of the discussion, care to explain?





Snapple said:


> debating logically with all feelers will prove them to hold double-standards to you since it's not about logical reasoning it's about how it makes them feel.


(he makes it sound like F doms/aux can't hold a rational discussion, which makes me react.)



Acerbusvenator said:


> would you put yourself in an argument against for example @ NighTi claiming that he's unable to form a rational thought because he got Fe aux?


(I point out a very intelligent and rational person with Fe aux that I know as an example for why Snapple's reasoning is flawed)



Snapple said:


> Want me to go into details on how the fact that you prefer to "feel" instead of "thinking" doesn't imply you can't perform the other just as well? You sound like a feeler to me, your conclusion is totally emotional not logical


(He suddenly starts to say that F doms/aux are very capable at logical reasoning and then makes a comment that my reasoning is that of a feeler which speaks against the point he was just making)



Acerbusvenator said:


> Your argument is invalid.


(pointing out that he invalidated his own argument by saying "Fs are just as capable at being rational as Ts! You don't sound rational so you must be a feeler!")

And no, I don't really care about expanding on this disagreement.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

@Acerbusvenator

I appreciate you taking the time. Your reasoning is (as usual) razor sharp.


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