# What IEs can you find in the languages you speak?



## GnothiSeauton (Sep 11, 2011)

Interesting thread.

It may not seem be obvious from outside, but Italian people are actually very self-critical, with a tendency to criticize little social behaviours that we believe are part of our culture. This is used for humor purposes, but at times also in a harshly critical fashion.

We tend to be self-conscious about being lazy, narrow-minded or unorganized/inefficient, and we criticize (or sometimes even praise) ourselves for the ability to cunningly take advantage of situations, sometimes in a blatantly dishonest way.

As a result we have many culturally significant terms that are complex to translate: 

- arrivista (someone who quickly and selfishly seizes any opportunity to gain personal benefit);
- pressappochista (the habit of doing very rough-around-the-edges work and present it as adequate);
- qualunquista (the habit of spewing clichéd criticism without offering a solution - especially used in reference to old people); 
- the Neapolitan term 'cazzimma' (which roughly translates to 'cunning'); 
- the compound 'italiota', which means to be idiotic or shallow in a typically Italian manner.

Our swearing is very colorful. There are probably hundreds of different ways to indicate the reproductive organs, especially if you factor in dialectal variations. Tuscanians for one are famous for being quite creative when it comes to blasphemy (also known as 'bestemmia').

The sentence structure is long-winded and prone to dependent clauses. Comparing it to English's quite simple and inflexible syntax is a bit how I picture the difference between Ti and Te.

Italians tend to express dislike towards any foreign culture they perceive as too 'rigid' or 'unspontaneous', but at the same time can appreciate it if it displays organization and precision - which I'm inclined to think is a sign of Ti/Fe valuing. 

I would say Italian culture is Alpha/Beta depending on the interpretation. "We" are gregarious - though sometimes only among fellow countrymen (as shown by our disregard towards learning foreign languages, which could be seen as an aristocratic trait); we perceive ourselves as ingenious and good at adapting, suggesting p over j.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

GnothiSeauton said:


> Interesting thread.
> 
> It may not seem be obvious from outside, but Italian people are actually very self-critical, with a tendency to criticize little social behaviours that we believe are part of our culture. This is used for humor purposes, but at times also in a harshly critical fashion.
> 
> ...


Yup, I am familiar with this, though I'm not Italian. It seems to be a trend for all the Mediterranean countries, though. Would you say that swearing is Se-related here? Or is the focus more on how to be novel with your swearing that could indicate Ne? My overall impression of Latin culture is that it's quite beta, overall, though.


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## GnothiSeauton (Sep 11, 2011)

Entropic said:


> Yup, I am familiar with this, though I'm not Italian. It seems to be a trend for all the Mediterranean countries, though. Would you say that swearing is Se-related here? Or is the focus more on how to be novel with your swearing that could indicate Ne? My overall impression of Latin culture is that it's quite beta, overall, though.


Well, I suppose it depends on the use you make of cursing. It could be a way to channel strong emotions (which I'm more inclined to use) or else, a way to assert yourself over the interlocutor (which I sometimes use as well, if the other party accepts it and is willing to reply in a similar manner). I would say that swearing is highly dependent on dialectal and regional influences, therefore sometimes I just use dialect to quickly get the point across, even if it's not for cursing - which can create problems if my interlocutor hires from a different part of Italy.

Dialect, I would say, is stereotypically Se if it's southern and more characteristically Te otherwise - seeing as northern Italy has a reputation of being Gamma-ish. In actuality though, it's all forms of Se. But the way Italians deconstruct dialect is very Alpha and can be used for the purposes of humor.

Dario Fo (whom I'd type ESE, or perhaps ILE) has done a theatrical show called _Mistero Buffo_ where he almost exclusively employs different Northern dialects to narrate traditional monologues. It has been noted for its uncanny ability to communicate to southern Italians and even non-Italian speakers, so it is a Ne/Fe experiment:


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