# NF: Romanticism vs Traditionalism



## Alchemical Romance (Nov 26, 2009)

It happened to me on numerous occasions, after a person talks to me, to say i'm a traditionalist because on my view on romance and love. It pisses me off extremely because the way I see it romanticism has nothing to do with tradition.

When I love a girl, I quite don't give a flying f*ck about constructs society developed. For me romance is rebellious by nature. Like I stated on a different thread.

For example. When a romantic guy expresses his love to his girlfriend that happens to be far away, he surprises, he'll probbably rent a motorcycle, learn how to use it in 2 days ride to her delivering a surprising love message to her in person not caring if he breaks the lax x,y,z in the process...or any such things.

A traditional guy will send a postcard @ holiday x and somewhere down will be a "I love you message". Also constructs like "she must have a good family" "working parents" "nice house" "apropriate hair colour" let's not forget the dreaded "she must be a virgin" mean 0 to me. 

Because I love somebody doesn't mean i'm "old school". It's not "cool" anymore to express affection or what? I don't get it. Cause if that's the case they're the traditionalists because they impose a "cool" standard.

In the past it was "cool" that the parents should have a good family. Now it seems to be "cool" as a boy to have hundreds of flings with every girl and not care about any one of them. It's the same shit. I don't get them. I mean, I wanna have one girl and make love to her the same amount of times they do. 

And I did have my share of romances. I tend to disrespect people that call me a traditionalist, but then quickly go to the nearest mirror to see if hair no203487 is standing on top of their heads in a cool proper way.

So what's your opinion? Is actually loving someone....so yesterday? Maybe it's just me and I'm growing old, but I don't remember being different.


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## snail (Oct 13, 2008)

Awww! I relate completely.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## In a Quandary (Dec 26, 2009)

A tendency of mine is to write poetry (amongst other things) to my (current) love interest. Unfortunately, appreciation of such a gesture seems exclusive to NF males (or NF females, were I gynophilically inclined)...


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## Shae (Dec 26, 2009)

I think romance is beautiful! I'm a hopeless romantic...and i am also branded as too traditional or behind the times...but i am definitely NOT traditional, like if he came from a not too put together family, that wouldn't bother me any, or if he had a past, it doesn't matter to me.:laughing:


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## Deja Vu (Dec 26, 2009)

And this is why I sometimes feel like I'm an INFP. 
I'm a ridicilously hopeless romantic.


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## Lilsnowy (Sep 9, 2009)

Idris, ENFPs are super sensitive to romance and we have unbelievably romantic hearts and minds. Life _is_ romance to us, and if we are not in a romance, we are probably actively looking or wishing for one. We are poetic, dramatic and appreciate the smallest gestures. We give deeply, whether it's personal words in poetry and or talking about our dreams of love. I think all NFs might be this way.


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## OrangeAppled (Jun 26, 2009)

I call myself a Romanticist also :happy:!! My idea of it is similar to yours - spontaneous & imaginative expression of passionate feeling through grand gestures that defy convention. I don't say "romantic" because that has different connotations now, ones which are too mushy gushy and cliche for my taste. I also really like the Romanticist movement of the late 18th century.

Doesn't this sound soooo NF? :laughing:

*Romanticism:* _An artistic and intellectual movement originating in Europe in the late 18th century and characterized by a heightened interest in nature, emphasis on the individual's expression of emotion and imagination, departure from the attitudes and forms of classicism, and rebellion against established social rules and conventions.

A movement in literature and the fine arts, beginning in the early nineteenth century, that stressed personal emotion, free play of the imagination, and freedom from rules of form.

Romanticism generally stressed the essential goodness of human beings, celebrated nature rather than civilization, and valued emotion and imagination over reason.
_


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## Alchemical Romance (Nov 26, 2009)

OrangeAppled said:


> I call myself a Romanticist also :happy:!! My idea of it is similar to yours - spontaneous & imaginative expression of passionate feeling through grand gestures that defy convention. I don't say "romantic" because that has different connotations now, ones which are too mushy gushy and cliche for my taste. I also really like the Romanticist movement of the late 18th century.
> 
> Doesn't this sound soooo NF? :laughing:
> 
> ...


I know what the thing is, hopefully in three years i'll teach it, cause I'll be a college professor teaching romanticism. I need only to finish my masteral and doctoral thesis. Guess what I'm doing? Psychologycal Types of Romantic Authors. Which romantics do you like best? *thinking to myself "Cool now I may have someone to talk about poetry with"*



OrangeAppled said:


> spontaneous & imaginative expression of passionate feeling


Is this your phrase yours or have you remade it from this one

"Poetry is the spontaneous overflow of powerful feelings. William Wordsworth in The Preface to Lyrical Ballads "

Naughty naughty. Remaking old phrases and calling them your own is a serious offense. :tongue:


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## Deja Vu (Dec 26, 2009)

Lilsnowy said:


> Idris, ENFPs are super sensitive to romance and we have unbelievably romantic hearts and minds. Life _is_ romance to us, and if we are not in a romance, we are probably actively looking or wishing for one. We are poetic, dramatic and appreciate the smallest gestures. We give deeply, whether it's personal words in poetry and or talking about our dreams of love. I think all NFs might be this way.


I didn't know that.
All those silly crushes make sense now, haha.


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## OrangeAppled (Jun 26, 2009)

Alchemical Romance said:


> I know what the thing is, hopefully in three years i'll teach it, cause I'll be a college professor teaching romanticism. I need only to finish my masteral and doctoral thesis. Guess what I'm doing? Psychologycal Types of Romantic Authors. Which romantics do you like best? *thinking to myself "Cool now I may have someone to talk about poetry with"*


I didn't think you didn't know....I opening it up for further discussion as it relates to the NF temperament.




Alchemical Romance said:


> Is this your phrase yours or have you remade it from this one
> 
> "Poetry is the spontaneous overflow of powerful feelings. William Wordsworth in The Preface to Lyrical Ballads"
> 
> Naughty naughty. Remaking old phrases and calling them your own is a serious offense. :tongue:


Nope, that was my own phrasing. Similarity is coincidence. 

"If you must write prose and poems,
the words you use should be your own;
don't plagiarise or take "on loan".
There's always someone, somewhere
with a big nose, who knows."
- Morrissey 

:wink:


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## Wanderling (Dec 27, 2009)

Alchemical Romance said:


> It happened to me on numerous occasions, after a person talks to me, to say i'm a traditionalist because on my view on romance and love. It pisses me off extremely because the way I see it romanticism has nothing to do with tradition.


Thanks for your post, mate. It's so good to hear someone else say that! In many people's minds, love and romance seem to be a thing of the past; but then a lot of people think the same thing of literature (hope your thesis goes well, by the way! I've also done some research in literature myself), the fine arts and so on. I don't mind too much as long as they let me do my own thing. "Live and let live", I suppose.
But I hate it when people feel they have to preach to you, or give you labels (like traditionalist, as you've said). 

When I decided to get married at what is considered in Western (or at least West European) culture a very young age (I was 19 turning 20), I never expected the opposition I came to face. My closest friends made fun of me (at best) and kept criticising me. Needless to say we grew apart after that and we're not in touch anymore. But they said I was a traditionalist, a conservative, brain-washed by religion for wanting to get married so young... which was ridiculous because they knew that in religion I am progressive, in morals liberal and in politics very left-wing and anti-authoritarian. Their accusations didn't even make sense. And they were supposed to know me! If they had listened to me they would have realised that I had been dreaming of marrying my princess ever since I was a child dreaming of slaying dragons and storming dungeons. The Quest for my One and Only had always been part of my life. Finding True Love had always been part of who I was.

Four years on, my wife (a lovely INFJ, though we only found out about personality types a year or two ago) and I are wildly happy, and we have made other friends, who are accepting of who we are. When people first find out that we are married, they are often shocked. A few think it's sweet, some think it's eccentric and strange, but quite a few react with what almost amounts to hostility: in France people tend to get married very late if they ever do (mid 30s) and a lot are anti-marriage, especially in university and "intellectual" circles. It's tiring to constantly be forced to justify yourself when all you want to do is live your own life.

So Alchem, I don't think you'll ever escape the risk of being labelled "traditionalist" (or worse things). Maybe treasuring True Love and being truely romantic is just one of the curses of being a NF. But it sure as hell is one our most wonderful blessings: for ourselves, but I think for others too.


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## Alchemical Romance (Nov 26, 2009)

GroovyShamrock said:


> Thanks for your post, mate. It's so good to hear someone else say that! In many people's minds, love and romance seem to be a thing of the past; but then a lot of people think the same thing of literature (hope your thesis goes well, by the way! I've also done some research in literature myself), the fine arts and so on. I don't mind too much as long as they let me do my own thing. "Live and let live", I suppose.
> But I hate it when people feel they have to preach to you, or give you labels (like traditionalist, as you've said).
> 
> When I decided to get married at what is considered in Western (or at least West European) culture a very young age (I was 19 turning 20), I never expected the opposition I came to face. My closest friends made fun of me (at best) and kept criticising me. Needless to say we grew apart after that and we're not in touch anymore. But they said I was a traditionalist, a conservative, brain-washed by religion for wanting to get married so young... which was ridiculous because they knew that in religion I am progressive, in morals liberal and in politics very left-wing and anti-authoritarian. Their accusations didn't even make sense. And they were supposed to know me! If they had listened to me they would have realised that I had been dreaming of marrying my princess ever since I was a child dreaming of slaying dragons and storming dungeons. The Quest for my One and Only had always been part of my life. Finding True Love had always been part of who I was.
> ...


You're one of the lucky ones. I wish one day i'll have your luck. For my part I do not care what people say about me, but for they're own knowledge they should know the difference between doiing something tradition tells you and doing something because so you see fit. I say to you take your wife, live your life, love each other and ignore any opposition, those dragons you wanted to fight as a child may not be green and slimy but very human-like :laughing:



OrangeAppled said:


> There's always someone, somewhere
> with a big nose, who knows."
> - Morrissey
> 
> :wink:


Indeed there always is :wink:

If it's your line then, human originality is indeed almost inexistent. Post a link to the thread discussing romanticism


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## OrangeAppled (Jun 26, 2009)

Alchemical Romance said:


> Indeed there always is :wink:
> 
> If it's your line then, human originality is indeed almost inexistent. Post a link to the thread discussing romanticism


What thread? I don't think I've seen it. 

I don't think because I can accurately describe what Romanticism is that I must have copied someone else's words. The only similarities were the words "spontaneous" and "feeling", which is at the core of the concept. Originality for the sake of originality is overrated anyway. I'm more interested in genuine expression than contrived attempts to be "original".


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## Alchemical Romance (Nov 26, 2009)

OrangeAppled said:


> I didn't think you didn't know....I opening it up for further discussion as it relates to the NF temperament.
> 
> :wink:





OrangeAppled said:


> What thread? I don't think I've seen it.
> 
> I don't think because I can accurately describe what Romanticism is that I must have copied someone else's words. The only similarities were the words "spontaneous" and "feeling", which is at the core of the concept. Originality for the sake of originality is overrated anyway. I'm more interested in genuine expression than contrived attempts to be "original".


I didn't say you copied anything I just agreed with the post with "the big nose who knows". Before that I just found a similarity that's all. :wink:


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## Thirsty (May 19, 2010)

<<<<<<<<<<Hope less Romantic.. When I am trying to court a girl, my entire focus is stratigec, premeditated, and yet goes with the flow, on being romantic with her. It could be quotes, poetry, special places to visit, words spoken, music, but most of all willing to spend time listening to her heart..


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## Kitten (Mar 28, 2010)

I've never really thought about romanticism vs. traditionalism before... I guess that means society's views on romance don't really matter to me. ^^

Since feelings of romantic love for somebody should just be something between two people, I don't expect others to ever fully understand any romantic couple they know of, whether they're friends with the couple or they hardly even know them. :3

...'Cause that's what romance should be. Not something that can be affected by others besides the one you love - something that just comes from YOUR love! ^^

...Can you tell I'm a hopeless romantic? :tongue:


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## Alchemical Romance (Nov 26, 2009)

Kitten said:


> ...Can you tell I'm a hopeless romantic? :tongue:


never would have guessed


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