# Do Fi users view Fe as shallow, vapid, and/or passive-aggressive?



## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

I think Fe and Fi just have a large misunderstanding of each other if we are just comparing those functions.

Also I think alot of people who commented on Fe or Fi dont entirely understand either. Fe is not always contrived or fake far from. Its group oriented can that be superficial sure but it does not mean the person is dependent on group approval in itself. I am just going to use tert Fe so estp and entp. They often officate by the using principle of a matter and tactic and referee. Can that be used to manipulate how a few noted yes. But this is where personal backround and back story life experience and ennegram play a role as well. It can also be used for team work and group morale and the betterment of a group paired appropriately with Ti. And Nfj doing the same in reverse can do it as well. I think when people do not allow growth in their functions and progress and evolve and when you run into more narrow projections of the stereotypes. 

And the same can be said for Fi users and their functions amd progression. More evolved balanced users who use their Te and Fi productive are less inclined to be off kilter.

Superficialty is not Fe. There are some very ostentatious Fi users out there who are not balanced. Also some very passive aggressive ones. I would argue that often the most passive aggressive types is not a matter of Fi vs Fe but rather whether we are discussing healthy Feeler doms in general or not. Some of the most unhealthy passige aggressive types I have come across have been both fi and fe dom and aux usually under an inferiority complex. Then going on to argue that also that manipulation discussed in tert and inferior Fe is also just as relevant with tert and inferior Fi either direction if its unhealthy. Unhealthy fi or fe doms or auxs have a tendency to gaslight or silent tantrum and act passive aggressive and cunning. Unhealthy fi and fe tert and inferiors have a tendency to manipulate abuse control or deflect. None of which have to do with superficiality. 

I think superficiality likely has more to do with back story and ennegram.

If I was just going to name in itself the most ostentatious types by four letter stereotyping alone I would say off the cuff its ExxJs in general which is both Fe and Fi users. So maybe its more an e troverted J thing. Again even there it has to do with balance maturity health and backstory and ennegram.


----------



## coconut sharks (Apr 26, 2015)

I think Fi users prefer to trust Fi because it's more likely to be honest. It can be very nice or very nasty but at least it's true. Even if it ruins the atmosphere.
Personally I don't see _any_ of the functions as inherently negative. They can all but useful or annoying. I'd love to think that the functions I am bad at aren't important but they are. You can't be good at everything. 
It's important to understand the differences so that we can get along better.


----------



## DOGSOUP (Jan 29, 2016)

Shaolu said:


> Based on the sentiments of my ISTJ wife, I think her picture of Fe users is something like this...


This could be like... meta-Fe.

It is what some people see as Fe.
It is also the misconseption Fe.
Though we can't say Fe isn't like this at all.
It can be seen as accurate depiction of Fe-like behaviour in some situations.

What would make it _essentially_ Fe?

I am also curious (not only about the picture of Fe; which was fantastically depicted in this video) but about the actual sentiments you mentioned there. What has she said about us?


----------



## sometimes (Dec 26, 2013)

Yes, probably. I can see how they would. 

Fi users are passive aggressive, though...


----------



## Catwalk (Aug 12, 2015)

As an (Fi) - user; I am entirely to self-focused to give a shit.


----------



## Shaolu (Jul 1, 2014)

DOGSOUP said:


> This could be like... meta-Fe.
> 
> It is what some people see as Fe.
> It is also the misconseption Fe.
> ...


Mostly it's her getting confused/annoyed by my ISFJ mother. Like when we're visiting and we're talking about current events, my mother will bring up some recent tragedy or some pressing issue that she's passionate about, and after we talk about it for a bit (maybe a few minutes or whatever) she'll sigh and say something like "Well, would either of you like some cookies?" with a smile. It's that kind of emotional fluidity that befuddles my ISTJ wife. She's remarked before that at first she thinks with the way my mother will effuse about something that it must mean a lot, but when she's able to move on, change topics, etc. she has to wonder how much it *really* meant.

The kind of concern that my mother and I both have for propriety (although with myself at times a little oblivious in specific situations), my ISTJ wife feels it all a bit "fake." She will at the same time insist that she understands social conventions, being tactful, etc., but I think she doesn't feel it should be necessary with family. In fact, it's probably a big part of the tension I myself have with her. When she says something that I find hurtful, I tend to conceptualize it along the lines of specific words she uses and how "rude" it was. Meanwhile, her chief complaint will be me being inconsiderate.

But at this point, now I'm just starting to vent about my own relationship issues, so I'll move on, lol...

Suffice it to say, she doesn't have a high opinion of Extraverted Feeling and has even brought it up in conversation by prefacing it with "You Fe mother fuckers..." Yeah... heh...


----------



## DOGSOUP (Jan 29, 2016)

Shaolu said:


> It's that kind of emotional fluidity that befuddles my ISTJ wife. She's remarked before that at first she thinks with the way my mother will effuse about something that it must mean a lot, but when she's able to move on, change topics, etc. she has to wonder how much it *really* meant.


Okay, I can understand why someone would consider this problematic, although I personally don't see it that way. It's a great characterisation of the difference between Fe and Fi btw, Fe having a larger scope and Fi focusing on fine-tuning it.



> The kind of concern that my mother and I both have for propriety (although with myself at times a little oblivious in specific situations), my ISTJ wife feels it all a bit "fake." She will at the same time insist that she understands social conventions, being tactful, etc., but I think she doesn't feel it should be necessary with family. In fact, it's probably a big part of the tension I myself have with her. When she says something that I find hurtful, I tend to conceptualize it along the lines of specific words she uses and how "rude" it was. Meanwhile, her chief complaint will be me being inconsiderate.


Oh my ISTJ friend is the same! She is the only thinker in our group and gets frustrated when we try to, hm, cover things up and not call things by their real names out of "propriety". She is far from disrespectful and has more tact than most people I know, unless we're in a situation where this ideal behaviour can't be rationalized (?) which leads her to being frustrated.

So when you said she complains you of being inconsiderate... was she referring to her own feelings or something else?



> Suffice it to say, she doesn't have a high opinion of Extraverted Feeling and has even brought it up in conversation by prefacing it with "You Fe mother fuckers..." Yeah... heh...


<3


----------



## MolaMola (Jul 28, 2012)

I used to, before i understood them.

now I don't. 

Fe is trying to understand how people feel and act diplomatically. it is the idea of sacrificing your own feelings/viewpoints sometimes, sorta, for the sake of making others not feel badly.

which in its own way is quite honorable i think.

now that i am more mature and more understanding of Fe, I don't view it as any better or worse than Fi, and I definitely truly appreciate the Fe users in my life. they help me with my interpersonal conflicts due to their exceptional insight into why people do and feel the way they do (for me, as a strong Fi user, I can only take what I have felt in the past and try to relate it to how I think another person is feeling)


----------



## afloatexplorer (Jun 18, 2016)

umop 3pisdn said:


> But that's a common thing, I have Ti in the tertiary position which usually makes me see Te as the shallow and authoritarian adherence to 'facts' rather than the actual substance behind them, but that's both unfair and untrue. I just view it that way because if I were to act in a Te way, that's how I'd act, so then I generalize it onto everyone else. Basically my blindspot in regards to Te defines the limits or value that I can see in it. But the actual function has more depth than what I'm able to see. It's the same with Fi types, they see Fe as superficial charm because if they were to act in a 'Fe way', that's how they'd act, so they assume all Fe types are that way. If Fi is in your tertiary or inferior position, Fe is going to be your worst or second worst function, so your limitations with it basically define what you can see about it, and with those limitations it ends up seeming basically useless and bothersome, because to them it probably is.


It could be because my Tertiary Te is not well developed, but I have no problems with Ti dom thinking, now I don't claim I understand them easily, I mean I don't hold any negative feelings toward that function. More often than not I am interested in the ideas and some times feel like I learnt something.


----------



## jcal (Oct 31, 2013)

Shaolu said:


> Mostly it's her getting confused/annoyed by my ISFJ mother. Like when we're visiting and we're talking about current events, my mother will bring up some recent tragedy or some pressing issue that she's passionate about, and after we talk about it for a bit (maybe a few minutes or whatever) she'll sigh and say something like "Well, would either of you like some cookies?" with a smile. It's that kind of emotional fluidity that befuddles my ISTJ wife. She's remarked before that at first she thinks with the way my mother will effuse about something that it must mean a lot, but when she's able to move on, change topics, etc. she has to wonder how much it *really* meant.
> 
> The kind of concern that my mother and I both have for propriety (although with myself at times a little oblivious in specific situations), my ISTJ wife feels it all a bit "fake." She will at the same time insist that she understands social conventions, being tactful, etc., but I think she doesn't feel it should be necessary with family. In fact, it's probably a big part of the tension I myself have with her. When she says something that I find hurtful, I tend to conceptualize it along the lines of specific words she uses and how "rude" it was. Meanwhile, her chief complaint will be me being inconsiderate.


To the original question, no, not generally. However... 

This type of behavior from my ESFJ wife remains a head-scratcher for me, even after being with her for 42 years (38 married). That she can so quickly and freely switch between modes like that has often made me feel as if one or the other side of the coin must be disingenuous. We've talked about it on occasion and her response is always "I'm only upset about X, not Y", which really doesn't help me understand because, to me, upset is upset and it doesn't really subside until I can come to some sort of rational understanding of what it is that has me upset and what I can do about it. There is no switch like she has. That in no way means that I vent my frustrations over one topic on to unrelated people or topics, but neither can I put on a facade of sunshine and rainbows, either.


----------



## Dagmar (Jun 26, 2016)

I wouldn't say they're shallow. The conversations that are started primarily from Fe motivation tend to be more surface-level from my experience, but only because this function seeks to include others and help them have a good experience. I'm thinking of my ISFJ dad. Fe is not his dominant function, but as the auxiliary, he sure has learned to use it. He can be somewhat passive-aggressive when I or some other family member calls him out on stuff or hint that we think he isn't being genuine. He has a tendency to be very vague when it comes to how he feels about things. Rather than say what he truly thinks or feels deep down, he would rather make a generalization in the hopes of keeping a peaceful, "happy" atmosphere. Very understandable, but it does get annoying.


----------

