# Too cool for MBTI



## PaperTiger (Oct 5, 2009)

Arrogance aside, I'm something of an incoherent, bipolar mess. Don't tell me that's human, because I don't want to be understood.

I think I've got my E sorted- I like a fast-paced, involved, on-your-feet kinda life with lots of variety, new people, and opportunities to express myself. I tend not to think too much before I act or speak, although this changes in formal settings. I can be kind of shy sometimes, if I know I'm really bad at something. I'm a terrible actress, for instance, (not putting myself down, I just know), so I'm reluctant to act in public. But when it comes to things that I'm good at, like music, I'll perform all night. And in general, I like large group gatherings- parties, or outings with people I don't know so well, much better than close, intimate hang-outs. Unless the conversation is really good in the latter case, I get bored. So that's E.

When it comes to S/N, I think I'm N, but doesn't everyone? Unconventionality, creativity, originality, and spontaneous decision are rapidly becoming cultural norms. Especially since Disney and its plethora of 'hidden goddess' legends. This a problem that definately needs some discussion. Personally, I have high standards for 'interesting', and am attracted to vague, meaningless, but artistic ideas. I am good at spotting connections between pieces of information, and can rapidly string together an argument about almost anything, even if I don't have much evidence. In fact, that is one of my favourite things to do. 

The T/F split is what I'm most interested in though. I'm very neurotic. Deeply emotional, and easily moved. But I can push my feelings, and other people's, aside very easily if there is a cause or vision that requires it. I love sarcasm, caustic criticism, winning arguments, and putting people down. And while I am aware of feelings when things are quiet, in the heat of a moment I frequently forget them and pursue the seemingly higher goal of self-expression, even truth. So long as it's intriguing and explorative, the soft side can wait. Help with this one, please?

J/P is no problem. I like to put things in order, but only to prove that the way I've arranged them is better than anyone else's as a means of proving a point. Organization, in other words, is a game or a contest that I sometimes find enthralling. On the most part, though, I like things to be unpredictable. Last minute plans give me thrills, and people who fuss and want to know things ahead of time so they can 'be prepared' get on my nerves. I hate to feel slowed down. So yeah, P would be my guess, but I'm open to suggestions.

Wow what a ramble. I hope it makes sense to a point. At least I've given you all enough description to work with, right?


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## Loke (Aug 10, 2009)

PaperTiger said:


> When it comes to S/N, I think I'm N, but doesn't everyone? Unconventionality, creativity, originality, and spontaneous decision are rapidly becoming cultural norms. Especially since Disney and its plethora of 'hidden goddess' legends. This a problem that definately needs some discussion. Personally, I have high standards for 'interesting', and am attracted to vague, meaningless, but artistic ideas. I am good at spotting connections between pieces of information, and can rapidly string together an argument about almost anything, even if I don't have much evidence. In fact, that is one of my favourite things to do.


Totally agree. Everyone thinks they're N, yet S is supposed to be more common.



PaperTiger said:


> The T/F split is what I'm most interested in though. I'm very neurotic. Deeply emotional, and easily moved. But I can push my feelings, and other people's, aside very easily if there is a cause or vision that requires it. I love sarcasm, caustic criticism, winning arguments, and putting people down. And while I am aware of feelings when things are quiet, in the heat of a moment I frequently forget them and pursue the seemingly higher goal of self-expression, even truth. So long as it's intriguing and explorative, the soft side can wait. Help with this one, please?


I'm similar. I have been described as both very unempathic and as extremely emotional. Most ENTPs claim to be like stoic people who never cry or get offended, but I can't relate to that. I can be very rational and stoic, but I'm often not. Don't see any point in being like that.


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## PaperTiger (Oct 5, 2009)

Loke said:


> Totally agree. Everyone thinks they're N, yet S is supposed to be more common.
> 
> So what do we do? How do we purify tests to preserve N ?
> 
> I'm similar. I have been described as both very unempathic and as extremely emotional. Most ENTPs claim to be like stoic people who never cry or get offended, but I can't relate to that. I can be very rational and stoic, but I'm often not. Don't see any point in being like that.


Maybe we're ENTPs with bipolar:happy:
My picture of extraverted intuition is not really stoic or rational. Surely its sensitive, subtle, and attuned to the emotional world as inseparable from the world of ideas? People who never cry or get offended bring extraverted thinking to mind. 

What's your subtype? I'm PENT.


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## Perseus (Mar 7, 2009)

Bipolar are nearly always ISTP, but you are definintely a card carrying ESTP. The "write-style" is a giveaway.

Check questions:

Do you prefer a Tiger or a Snake? 

Would you put in laws to hunder property building as part of a social plan, or would you relax the laws and allow more freedom for the builder?


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## Perseus (Mar 7, 2009)

*Pent*



PaperTiger said:


> Maybe we're ENTPs with bipolar:happy:
> My picture of extraverted intuition is not really stoic or rational. Surely its sensitive, subtle, and attuned to the emotional world as inseparable from the world of ideas? People who never cry or get offended bring extraverted thinking to mind.
> 
> What's your subtype? I'm PENT.


Is there a list of sub-types anywhere please?


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## Loke (Aug 10, 2009)

PaperTiger said:


> Maybe we're ENTPs with bipolar:happy:
> My picture of extraverted intuition is not really stoic or rational. Surely its sensitive, subtle, and attuned to the emotional world as inseparable from the world of ideas? People who never cry or get offended bring extraverted thinking to mind.
> 
> What's your subtype? I'm PENT.


Yeah, I've been seen as "that manic depressive guy", but I've never gotten a diagnosis.

I agree, Te is stoic, and NTJs are the only personalities I'd describe as genuinely pretty stoic. But I think it's common for NTPs to put on that fascade. Ne as primary and Fe as teritary should make a person who shows quite a bit of emotion in my opinion, especially exaggerated and theatrical emotion.

I dunno what my subtype is or how to figure it out.

As for the S/N issue, I think it's a pretty difficult one... To be honest, saying someone is S when claiming to be N yourself is a lot like saying "You don't understand me!". And I see that behaviour a lot in introverts claiming to be N. They se Ss everywhere because they feel no one understands them and assumes it must be because they're Ss...

Anyway, what I do is that I don't pay too much attention to S/N.



Perseus said:


> Bipolar are nearly always ISTP


Thats just stupid.


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## PaperTiger (Oct 5, 2009)

Perseus said:


> Bipolar are nearly always ISTP, but you are definintely a card carrying ESTP. The "write-style" is a giveaway.
> 
> Check questions:
> 
> ...



Hmm. What about my writing style suggests S? 
As for your questions, I definately prefer a snake. A snake is subtler and can think. I also believe that builders should have as much freedom as they want. Weird houses are the way to live. And if they collapse, well, it makes a great story.

S/N troubles me. I have a massive value for intelligence, especially creative intelligence. I'm into post-modern poetry, composing music, death metal lyrics, and strange metaphors. I also like to come up with impossible, unheard of, and confusing ideas just for the sake of it. Ideas that stay ideas, and never have to face practicality, are my career.

On the S side, though, I like to develop 'expert' ways of doing them, and stick to them. I constantly refine them and try to force them on others, but won't accept anyone else's way.


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## PaperTiger (Oct 5, 2009)

Perseus said:


> Bipolar are nearly always ISTP, but you are definintely a card carrying ESTP. The "write-style" is a giveaway.
> 
> What about my writing style suggests S?
> 
> ...


I'd allow builders as much freedom as they want. Weird houses are way cooler, and if they collapse, well, it makes a good story. I've always thought lights should be on the floor, so we can sit around them like camp fires. 

The N/S split does trouble me though. I place a massive value on intelligence, especially creative intelligence, and I think that skews some of my test results towards N. 

I'm also into post-modern poetry, composing, and general word art. I can deal with numbers , but I prefer broad patterns to detailed or applied material. I love to generate ideas that are impossible both to enact and to understand. Practicality is my enemy, and I lack the rudiments of common sense. I am also very uncomfortable in physical space. When we play charades, I have little idea of what I look like acting something out. I can't dance at all, and barely know my left from my right at times. 

On the S side, though, once I have developed an 'expert' way of doing something, I tend to stick to it, although I am always refining it. I also try to force it on others, and won't accept other points of view.

As for subtypes, i don't know where any descriptions are, but you just rank your scores on the four dimensions in order from highest to lowest.
I am E: 84%/I: 26%; N: 77%/S:23%; T:66%/F:34%; P:90%/J:10%, which gives PENT.


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## NewSoul (Mar 27, 2009)

I dunno, you sound pretty N to me. I think more Ne than Ni, but i'm not very certain. It's funny how a lot of people just assume they're N, I've always been the opposite. :tongue:

Do you relate to one of these descriptions more than the other?


> Introverted Feeling - It is often hard to assign words to the values used to make introverted Feeling judgments since they are often associated with images, feeling tones, and gut reactions more than words. As a cognitive process, it often serves as a filter for information that matches what is valued, wanted, or worth believing in. There can be a continual weighing of the situational worth or importance of everything and a patient balancing of the core issues of peace and conflict in life’s situations. We engage in the process of introverted Feeling when a value is compromised and we think, “Sometimes, some things just have to be said.” On the other hand, most of the time this process works “in private” and is expressed through actions. It helps us know when people are being fake or insincere or if they are basically good. It is like having an internal sense of the “essence” of a person or a project and reading fine distinctions among feeling tones.





> Introverted Thinking - Introverted Thinking often involves finding just the right word to clearly express an idea concisely, crisply, and to the point. Using introverted Thinking is like having an internal sense of the essential qualities of something, noticing the fine distinctions that make it what it is and then naming it. It also involves an internal reasoning process of deriving subcategories of classes and sub-principles of general principles. These can then be used in problem solving, analysis, and refining of a product or an idea. This process is evidenced in behaviors like taking things or ideas apart to figure out how they work. The analysis involves looking at different sides of an issue and seeing where there is inconsistency. In so doing, we search for a “leverage point” that will fix problems with the least amount of effort or damage to the system. We engage in this process when we notice logical inconsistencies between statements and frameworks, using a model to evaluate the likely accuracy of what’s observed.



Or which do you relate more to out of these?
ENFP
or
ENTP


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## PaperTiger (Oct 5, 2009)

NewSoul said:


> I dunno, you sound pretty N to me. I think more Ne than Ni, but i'm not very certain. It's funny how a lot of people just assume they're N, I've always been the opposite. :tongue:
> 
> Do you relate to one of these descriptions more than the other?
> 
> ...


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## Perseus (Mar 7, 2009)

Paper Tiger. Answers indicate N. About 8/12 or 9/12 on the Paragon scale. I score 10/12 which is high. 

Has PENT got a description anywhere?

Perseus 24 System has you as a PN Psychedelic veering towards PS Doer.

Careers: Writer, Playright, Journalist, *Courtesan*, Actress

N describes the potential amount of knowledge required before action. 

Write style was misleading. You might have been practising your style for popular audiences? Or I may have failed to make an American adjustment?


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## The Proof (Aug 5, 2009)

I think you've got it, I have a friend like that, he plays acoustic guitar, though not professionally

he's pretty emotional too, I'd say too emotional and clingy to stand up to girls in relationships, so he gets dumped 

however, he can make a lot of logical sense if he wants to, but he seems prone to depression "life sucks, I hate this school etc"

he's at a tech school with me, I've grown accustomed to how harsh the grading method is and I know how to study for it, but I don't think he has progressed much past studying the night before exams, which is a gamble, he's also a heavy drinker and smoker, he's put on some weight, more than I did, because of his drinking and many late nights

I'm confident he could play profesionally, he's got his guitar with him virtually all the time, but at the moment he does it because to him "social life comes first" in his own words, so I think he sacrifices much for his social life, including his hair

but yeah, the MBTI thing is still pretty primitive and no system can really hope to encompass a person's existence completely, though humans are pretty predictable, because they learn so much stuff socially


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## PaperTiger (Oct 5, 2009)

Perseus: okay thanks. Yes, I had come straight from facebook, which has definately honed a slangy, friendly style. Also, I'm 19, so might just be practicing teenage conformities ^^.
The rest of it is quite new to me, will have to read up on it.

Thracius: what type do you think your friend is?


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## Perseus (Mar 7, 2009)

*The Hamsters*



Thracius said:


> I think you've got it, I have a friend like that, he plays acoustic guitar, though not professionally
> 
> he's pretty emotional too, I'd say too emotional and clingy to stand up to girls in relationships, so he gets dumped
> 
> ...




There is a local copy band called the Hamsters. Your friend is probably an ISFJ. Be lucky to make a pub band who are mostly ESFP.


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