# Mental Health or Cognitive Loop?



## littlewyng (Sep 17, 2020)

So I've been helping out my senior age parents, including my dad (ENTP) who is currently having some major issues. He has gotten paranoid, is obsessing over small things that don't matter, catastrophizes things (crack in the wall? It will fall down and the house will collapse and it's all my fault). 

There are stress triggers- retirement looming, his mom (my grandmother) passing away a year ago, a number of other things that could be contributing. 

My question is- how do you know if it's a loop or anxiety/depression type stuff? Or are they linked? The reason I"m wondering is, my ex (INTP) did some of the same things- obsessing and being paranoid about similar things. 

(Before you say it, yes, he is scheduled for a dr. appointment and they will refer him to a therapist- just waiting for the appointment date. Also his doctor is experimenting with meds, although nothing has taken effect yet.)


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## sxfiya (Mar 14, 2021)

Think of it this way. Anyone can have any mental health issue (stress, anxiety, depression, etc.). Your personality type decides the way in which that mental health issue manifests itself.
An entp like your dad might deal with depression and anxiety and start to become agitated, paranoid, etc (Si grip). A person who has Fe inferior for example, can deal with depression and anxiety and start to become extremely insecure, self-destructive, etc... does that make sense?


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## attic (May 20, 2012)

Whether the anxiety and other things are due to cognitive loop or not, it is still anxiety, I am thinking. Just another way to understand it.


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## sxfiya (Mar 14, 2021)

Yess for sure! But maybe don’t focus on cause and effect too much. It’s more like he has anxiety, and the loop explains the way that anxiety manifests itself in him


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## beth x (Mar 4, 2010)

I'm not sure where the term loop came from but it's inaccurate to describe cognitive functions, yet it's a persistent myth. If you lead with a function you don't switch back and forth to another function as it would mean that you switch to another personality type. Personality is relatively stable from 3 years old (probably even earlier) barring any TBIs or an organic brain issue.

It's grief and stress.

I hope he can feel better.


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

What @beth x said

Sounds like the typical way anxiety and stress manifests in Ne dom and sometimes aux. Not a "Si" grip or any loop. He sounds traumatised from the loss and seeing tragedy in the smallest things. Hopefully therapy will help him.


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## littlewyng (Sep 17, 2020)

Thank you guys! Very helpful.


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## sxfiya (Mar 14, 2021)

@beth x that’s not how loops work, loops work when you start relying on other functions in your stack but in unhealthy ways. It’s due to this unhealthy way that your personality type does not change. Let me give you an example. Say you’ve been hurt a lot emotionally and then decide to start repressing or bottling up your feelings. Does that mean you don’t have feelings? No, it means you still have them but choose not to address or use them. Unhealthy states of mind cannot become your personality type, and in fact they’re characteristic of whatever personality type you already are.

@Red Panda even said that this sounds like the way anxiety manifests in an Ne dom.Showing the use of functions during that time just explains the mechanics of it


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## NIHM (Mar 24, 2014)

littlewyng said:


> So I've been helping out my senior age parents, including my dad (ENTP) who is currently having some major issues. He has gotten paranoid, is obsessing over small things that don't matter, catastrophizes things (crack in the wall? It will fall down and the house will collapse and it's all my fault).
> 
> There are stress triggers- retirement looming, his mom (my grandmother) passing away a year ago, a number of other things that could be contributing.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately, I've found no study that links mental health to a specific type or function. My mother started Alzheimers a couple of years ago. She takes meds to slow it down but one of the first symptoms was being paranoid. When she gets in that phase nothing you can really do but ride it out. Then the next day she'll be normal and forget about the day of paranoia like it never happened. It's a disease that I wouldn't wish on anyone. She can still remember most of us, she just forgets where she is or what she did. Certain days she will forget what I did in high school and say you never did that and then my stepdad will show her pictures of me being a cheerleader on the field and she'll get a confused look on her face. It's really heartbreaking all around for everyone.

I hope the doctors get to the bottom of what is causing the issue in your dad.

I still notice how one personality type deals with Alzheimers differs but they ALL experience paranoid behavior. Remember the MBTI is about preferences and is not written in stone.

Also if it's not a disease, grief and stress can bring out extreme behaviors in all MBTI types. Only time heals it.


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## Electra (Oct 24, 2014)

littlewyng said:


> So I've been helping out my senior age parents, including my dad (ENTP) who is currently having some major issues. He has gotten paranoid, is obsessing over small things that don't matter, catastrophizes things (crack in the wall? It will fall down and the house will collapse and it's all my fault).
> 
> There are stress triggers- retirement looming, his mom (my grandmother) passing away a year ago, a number of other things that could be contributing.
> 
> ...


I think CBT could help him. Thete is an app called Excel at life (CBT diary) on android phones (I use it my self)
It asks questions such as is the worst case scenario likely to happen? How much do you believe this to be true? Can you challange you thoughts? (gives examples) etc.


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## Amenochu (Mar 2, 2021)

Loop most probably (Ne-fe since the ti is getting ignored,getting paranoid at things that don't matter), bt if mental health is bad (Was he dignosied with any?) at some point, the loop worsens.


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## littlewyng (Sep 17, 2020)

@NIHM That's exactly what I'm worried about- the symptoms of dementia are extremely similar to the signs of a "loop" or "grip" or whatever you want to argue it is- and having been through the mental health thing with my ex, I know firsthand that it's more art than science right now trying to figure out how to interpret and attack it on the medical side. And then if you attack it with meds, are you making the problem worse or giving him enough energy to fight it? Ugh. 

@Electra I agree. I had some worksheets about combatting negative thoughts from when my ex went through it, and I tried to get him to take a look but he's not interested- maybe if it comes from a 3rd party it will help. Fingers crossed. There was an article @tanstaafl28 sent me also about being in a Si grip that was talking about how it can result in losing sight of what's really important- I'm definitely noticing that. At one point out of frustration I asked him what was more important, my mother or the squeaky floor that he was obsessing about? He said, "your mother, of course," and then kept messing with the squeaky floor. I don't think he realizes... 

@Amenochu I'm hoping- he doesn't have family history of mental illness that we know of- but my grandparents did have similar mannerisms in later years and even if they had noticed things they never would have gotten it checked out because it would have shown weakness and they didn't like that... so not sure. Loop definitely is worsening, especially when he's super tired or something stressful (even minorly) happens.


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## Electra (Oct 24, 2014)

littlewyng said:


> @NIHM That's exactly what I'm worried about- the symptoms of dementia are extremely similar to the signs of a "loop" or "grip" or whatever you want to argue it is- and having been through the mental health thing with my ex, I know firsthand that it's more art than science right now trying to figure out how to interpret and attack it on the medical side. And then if you attack it with meds, are you making the problem worse or giving him enough energy to fight it? Ugh.
> 
> @Electra I agree. I had some worksheets about combatting negative thoughts from when my ex went through it, and I tried to get him to take a look but he's not interested- maybe if it comes from a 3rd party it will help. Fingers crossed. There was an article @tanstaafl28 sent me also about being in a Si grip that was talking about how it can result in losing sight of what's really important- I'm definitely noticing that. At one point out of frustration I asked him what was more important, my mother or the squeaky floor that he was obsessing about? He said, "your mother, of course," and then kept messing with the squeaky floor. I don't think he realizes...
> 
> @Amenochu I'm hoping- he doesn't have family history of mental illness that we know of- but my grandparents did have similar mannerisms in later years and even if they had noticed things they never would have gotten it checked out because it would have shown weakness and they didn't like that... so not sure. Loop definitely is worsening, especially when he's super tired or something stressful (even minorly) happens.


Often a third party is exactly whats needed when someone don't take you seriously, the idea needs to come from an authority 🙄


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

littlewyng said:


> @NIHM That's exactly what I'm worried about- the symptoms of dementia are extremely similar to the signs of a "loop" or "grip" or whatever you want to argue it is- and having been through the mental health thing with my ex, I know firsthand that it's more art than science right now trying to figure out how to interpret and attack it on the medical side. And then if you attack it with meds, are you making the problem worse or giving him enough energy to fight it? Ugh.
> 
> @Electra I agree. I had some worksheets about combatting negative thoughts from when my ex went through it, and I tried to get him to take a look but he's not interested- maybe if it comes from a 3rd party it will help. Fingers crossed. There was an article @tanstaafl28 sent me also about being in a Si grip that was talking about how it can result in losing sight of what's really important- I'm definitely noticing that. At one point out of frustration I asked him what was more important, my mother or the squeaky floor that he was obsessing about? He said, "your mother, of course," and then kept messing with the squeaky floor. I don't think he realizes...
> 
> @Amenochu I'm hoping- he doesn't have family history of mental illness that we know of- but my grandparents did have similar mannerisms in later years and even if they had noticed things they never would have gotten it checked out because it would have shown weakness and they didn't like that... so not sure. Loop definitely is worsening, especially when he's super tired or something stressful (even minorly) happens.




__
https://the-entp.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F154396141825









ENTP Inferior Function: Understanding the ENTPs Introverted Sensing (Si) - Personality Growth


ENTP Inferior Function: Understanding the ENTPs Introverted Sensing (Si) Our inferior function is the one we often push aside the most, and find it the most difficult to fully grasp. While our inferior does seem to be underutilized, this isn’t entirely the case. This function is used in...




personalitygrowth.com


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

@tanstaafl28 those things described are wrongly characterized as Si-grip. X-grip implies one is overusing that function even when not their preference, but those things are characteristically *weak S. *
Just sayin'. Those things are just a consequence of not preferring S, rather than being in its grip. It's how Ns are when stressed, because they're N and rely on N, not S.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

Red Panda said:


> @tanstaafl28 those things described are wrongly characterized as Si-grip. X-grip implies one is overusing that function even when not their preference, but those things are characteristically *weak S. *
> Just sayin'. Those things are just a consequence of not preferring S, rather than being in its grip. It's how Ns are when stressed, because they're N and rely on N, not S.


@littlewyng asked me for links I had sent her previously. These were the links. I stand by them as Si grip. An ENTP that gets overly stressed can fall into a loop or a grip. I didn't make that up. Every MBTI can be driven to an opposite cognitive function. 

They try their preferred functions first and all of the sudden, they stop getting results, so they start flailing about looking for something else.


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## IamAlexa (Jan 28, 2021)

littlewyng said:


> So I've been helping out my senior age parents, including my dad (ENTP) who is currently having some major issues. He has gotten paranoid, is obsessing over small things that don't matter, catastrophizes things (crack in the wall? It will fall down and the house will collapse and it's all my fault).
> 
> There are stress triggers- retirement looming, his mom (my grandmother) passing away a year ago, a number of other things that could be contributing.
> 
> ...


Seriously MBTI can frustate you so much. The more you get deep into it, the more you realize that there are things other than cognitive functions, and those things matter more than the functions. Things such as: past, experience, emotions, fear, anxiety, stress, loneliness, your luck, the people around you, and many more things. 
*Advice- *
Provide him love and calm him down. Don't get frustrated from his behaviours. He needs your support and understanding right now. 
If I were at your place, I would spend precious time with them, I would play with them, watch shows and movies with them, eat with them. I think, Love can heal anything.


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

tanstaafl28 said:


> @littlewyng asked me for links I had sent her previously. These were the links. I stand by them as Si grip. An ENTP that gets overly stressed can fall into a loop or a grip. I didn't make that up. Every MBTI can be driven to an opposite cognitive function.
> 
> They try their preferred functions first and all of the sudden, they stop getting results, so they start flailing about looking for something else.


But these things described are not characteristic of Si, but N. N notices subtle information, and considers it important. In a case of stress, such info can be a bodily sensation that would otherwise go unnoticed, like itch or a cough and get blown into paranoia about one's health. NIs can experience the same issues. If it were a Si-grip then one would act more like a Si, not less.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

Red Panda said:


> But these things described are not characteristic of Si, but N. N notices subtle information, and considers it important. In a case of stress, such info can be a bodily sensation that would otherwise go unnoticed, like itch or a cough and get blown into paranoia about one's health. NIs can experience the same issues. If it were a Si-grip then one would act more like a Si, not less.


Again, it is how a N person uses S because they are flailing and not using their preferred functions in a healthy manner.


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

tanstaafl28 said:


> Again, it is how a N person uses S because they are flailing and not using their preferred functions in a healthy manner.


Well, I disagree because nothing of that behavior is characteristic of what S is about. It's far likelier that when we don't notice our bodily sensations like that we're actually in a better balance with S. Otherwise N goes haywire and thinks an itch can be cancer, looking at an outlandish possibility that's not supported by any obvious facts which is how S works.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

Red Panda said:


> Well, I disagree because nothing of that behavior is characteristic of what S is about. It's far likelier that when we don't notice our bodily sensations like that we're actually in a better balance with S. Otherwise N goes haywire and thinks an itch can be cancer, looking at an outlandish possibility that's not supported by any obvious facts which is how S works.


So all the literature that talks about loops and grips, you just go ala-carte? 






The Inferior Function: Traps, Temptations, & “Grip Experiences” | Personality Junkie


By Dr. A.J. Drenth We all have two selves. Our conscious self, roughly comprised of our dominant and auxiliary functions, is our "best self." It…




personalityjunkie.com


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

tanstaafl28 said:


> So all the literature that talks about loops and grips, you just go ala-carte?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If the literature doesn't have sound reasoning, yea? If it's wrong it's wrong. I already explained why this behavior can't stem from S. Those issues happen because the N disregards even more the S than when healthy, hence how those fantastical and highly improbable possibilities come to be.


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## littlewyng (Sep 17, 2020)

@IamAlexa You are very sweet, and I get that- but we have to be careful about indulging him too much- because it's harmful. When he's getting really anxious he's jumping to bad conclusions and wanting to act- even if it's an action that is going to cause harm. Lots of hugs and caring but also some tougher love because there have to be boundaries too. 

So @Red Panda and @tanstaafl28 I don't know the answer, but here's what I'm observing- for science.

The things he's getting hung up on right now are systems related- mostly regarding their house that we are trying to sell, which is a big stressor. He convinced himself that his decisions long ago resulted in a breakdown in the systems currently, and he is the only one that will ever be able to understand the system or how to fix it, and therefore he has to be involved in anything that happens with it. For example the septic system is too small. It was too small when they bought the house which they knew. Now we are disclosing that it's too small to the next people. But he's convinced that he needs to stay in the empty house himself because nobody else will be able to figure out that the system is too small. Zero rationality to it. 

Another thing- he's seeing worse case scenarios for everything. Like he never got a permit for deck work 15 years ago, and he's convinced the city inspector will come in and condemn the entire house and kick them out of it. No logic is cutting through- obviously they don't do that, worse case they get a fine and we deal with that- etc.


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## Rift (Mar 12, 2012)

Electra said:


> Often a third party is exactly whats needed when someone don't take you seriously, the idea needs to come from an authority 🙄


one can attempt to meet them on their level or within their capabilities of understanding, too... which may mean embracing some _crazy _in order to get them to follow said orders. 

this aspect could be utilized with what one recognizes with mbti and the need for crisis intervention. manipulation gets such a bad rap but it's often necessary with children, the elderly and other folk that may be more inclined to be non-compliant or resistant to help.

so, mbti may be used as a guide in those endeavors


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## Rift (Mar 12, 2012)

littlewyng said:


> Another thing- he's seeing worse case scenarios for everything.


it's quite common for homeowners attempting to sell their property to escalate like that... https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query="home+seller+anxiety"









18 Effective De-Escalation Strategies For Defusing Meltdowns


These effective de-escalation strategies help parents, or caregivers, defuse meltdowns & outbursts in children. These de-escalation strategies will....




hes-extraordinary.com


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## sxfiya (Mar 14, 2021)

Red Panda said:


> Well, I disagree because nothing of that behavior is characteristic of what S is about. It's far likelier that when we don't notice our bodily sensations like that we're actually in a better balance with S. Otherwise N goes haywire and thinks an itch can be cancer, looking at an outlandish possibility that's not supported by any obvious facts which is how S works.


How are you in all the same threads as me and yet nothing you say makes any sense at all.
There’s a huge difference between introverted and extroverted functions, so you saying “this is a characteristic of N or S” means literally nothing. You clearly don’t know the first thing about jungian theory please read some books.
Si is subjective sensation, it has to do with experiencing the world as it relates to you. In a grip you inferior function starts to become a source of stress and self doubt for you. Hypochondriac behaviours, obsessing behaviours, stressing over small things, being perfectionistic, paranoia, anxiety, uncomfortable bodily sensation are all consequences of this. Ne is objective intuition, having to do with abstract ideas about how the world works. It has nothing to do with bodily sensation or internal experience


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

Red Panda said:


> If the literature doesn't have sound reasoning, yea? If it's wrong it's wrong. I already explained why this behavior can't stem from S. Those issues happen because the N disregards even more the S than when healthy, hence how those fantastical and highly improbable possibilities come to be.


That's why it is unhealthy behavior. It is counterproductive.


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## Electra (Oct 24, 2014)

Rift said:


> one can attempt to meet them on their level or within their capabilities of understanding, too... which may mean embracing some _crazy _in order to get them to follow said orders.
> 
> this aspect could be utilized with what one recognizes with mbti and the need for crisis intervention. manipulation gets such a bad rap but it's often necessary with children, the elderly and other folk that may be more inclined to be non-compliant or resistant to help.
> 
> so, mbti may be used as a guide in those endeavors


That guy was hillarious!! 😆
Specially with the trainstation problem 😆🤣😂😁


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## littlewyng (Sep 17, 2020)

@Rift- very helpful especially the de-escalation link- my mom (ISTJ) has been having trouble with how to handle the situation also and usually takes the "just suck it up" approach- so I explained the validation and choice thing and she liked it- probably partly because she was an elementary school teacher so it made sense to her.


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## Rift (Mar 12, 2012)

littlewyng said:


> @Rift- very helpful especially the de-escalation link- my mom (ISTJ) has been having trouble with how to handle the situation also and usually takes the "just suck it up" approach- so I explained the validation and choice thing and she liked it- probably partly because she was an elementary school teacher so it made sense to her.


this classroom workshop video might appeal to her as well. There's very little difference in de-escalation techniquess between children and adults... and frankly, when most adults enter crisis mode, they tend to regress to a more youthful state, of feeling powerless, decisions taken from them and a loss of goals, focus on outcomes.


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

sxfiya said:


> How are you in all the same threads as me and yet nothing you say makes any sense at all.
> There’s a huge difference between introverted and extroverted functions, so you saying “this is a characteristic of N or S” means literally nothing. You clearly don’t know the first thing about jungian theory please read some books.
> Si is subjective sensation, it has to do with experiencing the world as it relates to you. In a grip you inferior function starts to become a source of stress and self doubt for you. Hypochondriac behaviours, obsessing behaviours, stressing over small things, being perfectionistic, paranoia, anxiety, uncomfortable bodily sensation are all consequences of this. Ne is objective intuition, having to do with abstract ideas about how the world works. It has nothing to do with bodily sensation or internal experience


_He rids himself of the restrictions of reason, only to fall a victim to unconscious neurotic compulsions in the form of oversubtle, negative reasoning, hair-splitting dialectics, and a compulsive tie to the sensation of the object. His conscious attitude, both to the sensation and the sensed object, is one of sovereign superiority and disregard. Not that he means to be inconsiderate or superior -- he simply does not see the object that everyone else sees; his oblivion is similar to that of the sensation-type -- only, with the latter, the soul of the object is missed. For this oblivion the object sooner or later takes revenge in the form of hypochondriacal, compulsive ideas, phobias, and every imaginable kind of absurd bodily sensation. [p. 468] _

Here he is, your own idol describing how the NE type falls victim of too much reliance on N.

How can you understand with this attitude? Do you even understand he never described 8 functions, but 8 types?


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## Allostasis (Feb 2, 2021)

@sxfiya.


> “this is a characteristic of N or S” means literally nothing.


Except a lot of things, because in Jung's typology there are 4 psychological functions that concern flow of libido. "extraverted functions" don't exist as separate functions in it.


> Ne is objective intuition, having to do with abstract ideas about how the world works


It is you who should read something about jungian theory if you state things of such caliber.

I think people who jump from dichotomies into Harold Grant stacks/John Beebe model are too quick to believe that they figured it all now.
Not realizing that many concepts like shadow functions, magical grips or loops have nothing to do with what Jung said and are largely based on misinterpretation.


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## littlewyng (Sep 17, 2020)

And they say ENTPs like to debate. Psh.


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## Allostasis (Feb 2, 2021)

@littlewyng
Yes, apologies for hijaking this thread further.

Generally I wouldn't rely on unreliable theories/models in such important complex matters.
Same behaviors can be stimulated by completely different causes that go way out of the scope of what is understood by "loops" and usual means of dealing with them.
Personality is just one of the layers in rather huge and intricate structure that predicates what we do.


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## littlewyng (Sep 17, 2020)

Haha, I'm enjoying it, not to worry. Good break from the seriousness in my day tbh. 

Yeah it's frustrating to see all of the puzzle pieces and have little portions of the puzzle done but not be able to see the whole thing. And I think that if I know anyone well enough to figure it out it should be my family. If there are people everywhere who have similar behaviors in certain situations, how are we not able to figure out what the cause and effect is, or at least predict what will happen well enough to prevent things getting worse? You know?


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## Allostasis (Feb 2, 2021)

@littlewyng


> how are we not able to figure out what the cause and effect is, or at least predict what will happen well enough to prevent things getting worse? You know?


I think we can predict to an extent without knowing the exact cause. I had to prevent some things in my family rather successfully.

So, returning to question:


> How do you know if it's a <thing>


I don't focus on what "thing" it is (anxiety, loop or whatever), but more on a general trend and what likely makes it continue and how it started in the first place.
This is sometimes enough to feel like I see the whole and to make some moves. Direct talks with a given person can, manifestly, be very informative.

If the most applicable formal definition is needed, then I guess you can cross-reference traits of phenomena in question.


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## littlewyng (Sep 17, 2020)

OK, case study of the day. Dr. appointment is on Thursday. There is a 3 page questionnaire that has to be done for the doctor. I brought pre-printed copies so it can be filled out by hand. Gave a copy to dad. 
Dad: This is three pages. Wow.
Me: It's really not too bad. Lots of it is checking off whether you've been diagnosed with certain things.
Dad: Do you have another copy?
Me: I have it digitally- if we need another copy we can print it.
Dad: I might make an error and I don't want to cross off the form.
Me: Yep, if you want a clean copy we can do that, I will just print it. 
Dad: My printer has a message on it. 
Me: Looks like it needs a firmware update. (pushes the buttons through to get the update) there all set.
Dad: But you pushed the buttons now I don't know what to do.
Me: It's good to go, if the message pops up after I'm gone, just call me and I can walk through it. 
Dad: What about ink? It says ink is low.
Me: We don't have to worry about that right now, we don't need to print the form right now.
Dad: I'm trying to be proactive.
Me: Well let's try filling out the form and then we can cross that bridge if we need to. 

This form will take all day, guarantee it. It's already been 25 minutes of discussion over the insurance section and fretting over whether they will accept his insurance.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

What You’re Like During Grip Stress, Based On Your Myers-Briggs® Personality Type
By Susan Storm March 4, 2021

Have you ever reached a point when you’re stressed where you suddenly just don’t care anymore? Do you ever “flip a switch” and start acting in ways that would be totally unlike you when you’re calm? You could be experiencing “grip” stress. Let’s explore what grip stress is, why it happens, and how you can get out of it and into a healthier mindset.

Not sure what your personality type is? Take our new personality questionnaire here. Or you can take the official MBTI® here.

*What is Grip Stress? (Read this First)*
Grip stress occurs when you’re overwhelmed, exhausted, and at the peak of your stress levels. When your normally relied-upon mental tools prove incapable of solving the problems you’re dealing with, your inferior function can take the wheel and control your personality for spurts of time until your stress load subsides.

Naomi Quenk, a licensed clinical psychologist who has written most of the content we have on grip stress, states, “Conscious skill and experience with a function does not prevent us from falling into the grip. With sufficient fatigue or stress, our inferior function will take over, quite beyond our control.” You can read more from Naomi Quenk in her book, Was That Really Me? How Everyday Stress Brings Out Our Hidden Personality

Imagine it like this. Say you’re an INFJ and you’re dealing with a relationship problem that seems to have blown out of control. You’re exhausted, drained, and emotionally vulnerable. You try to throw all your intuition and feeling at this problem. “What’s the underlying pattern in the relationship?” “How will the trajectory continue if you stay in the relationship?” “What values are at stake?” The problem is you’re drained, weary, and your intuition doesn’t seem to be adequately solving the problem for you. But you keep pushing and pushing, extending your mental energy beyond its comfort zone.

What happens when you’re doing this? Chances are, you start to become one-sided and more true-to-type. You exhaust yourself. Then the inferior function, one you hadn’t even considered as a solution, erupts and charges forward, taking control of your personality while your dominant intuition and auxiliary feeling side get a breather.



> *When any type first experiences stress they tend to become more one-sided and true-to-type than usual. If stress continues or spikes, then the inferior function will take over to compensate for the exhausted dominant function.*


Unfortunately, when the inferior function takes the wheel, it’s typically not in a mature, controlled way. It usually shows up in erratic shifts in behavior and uncharacteristic outbursts. In this article we’ll explore the way that it can show up during grip stress for each of the 16 personality types.

*How You Experience Grip Stress, Based On Your Personality Type
ENFP and ENTP Grip Stress*
As an ENFP or ENTP, you typically approach the world around you with a sense of possibility and eagerness. You enjoy exploring new opportunities and sharing your passion of new ideas with others. You typically are bored by repetition, details, or facts unless they coincide with one of your interests or spark an interesting theoretical possibility in your mind. The world of sensation can feel dull, lifeless, and predictable. It’s easier for you to dismiss the sensing perspective that bubbles up from within your mind than to focus on it. That’s why, when Intuition wears out,, the sensing side is more than happy to take the wheel and have a chance to “run the show” of your personality.

When you experience grip stress you become obsessed with the details of whatever project you’re involved in. Suddenly all the details stand out like blaring red lights. As a result, you get lost in busy work, trying to perfect every detail, no matter how insignificant. Your vision, normally broad and creative, becomes blurred and narrowed. You become less sociable and friendly and more serious and reserved.

*Symptoms of an ENFP or ENTP being in grip stress (they may experience some or all of these):*

They become detached and reserved
They obsess about perfecting every little detail on a project
They become more paranoid and nitpicky
They are hyper-aware of how they feel physically and may worry that they have an illness
They are overwhelmed by feelings of sadness or despair
They feel mentally stifled and uninspired
ENTPs may become more emotionally reactive and hyper-sensitive
ENFPs may become more critical, commanding, and/or bend logic to fit their suspicions
They struggle to verbalize their thoughts or feelings
They obsessively organize something in their environment
They escalate smaller issues into major issues
*ESFP and ESTP Grip Stress*
Enthusiastic and pragmatic, you believe that life is meant to be experienced in all its raw beauty. You are typically quick on your feet, down-to-earth, and opportunistic. You see experiences to be enjoyed everywhere and have no problem jumping right into action to amplify the current moment and make it more memorable and intense. As the opposite of sensation, intuition can seem slow and lifeless to you. Imagining for its own sake, theorizing about the unknown, or reading-between-the-lines can feel dull and pointless. Your perspective is that it is safer and more pragmatic to focus on what is right in front of you; what can be seen, touch, tasted, and experienced.

When you experience grip stress, you become more detached from your surroundings. You want to back away from people and restrict your easy-going, spontaneous demeanor. You become tired, drained, and worried. You may avoid other people, fixate on responsibilities, or become obsessed with terrible visions of the future.

*Symptoms of an ESFP or ESTP being in grip stress (they may experience some or all of these):*

They become forgetful and unfocused
They feel overwhelmed by fantasies of impending disaster
They have a foreboding sense that things are going to go wrong
They get distracted by disturbing inner images
They doubt themselves
They feel lonely and gloomy
They selectively choose environmental data to support their visions
They assume bad intent in others
They feel suspicious and paranoid
They become obsessed with mystical theories or spiritual practices
They are less tolerant and more easily-angered
*INFJ and INTJ Grip Stress*
As an INFJ or INTJ, you typically approach life with curiosity and perceptiveness. You strive to understand the deeper meaning behind things and anticipate and predict how things will play out long-term. As an intuitive-dominant personality, it’s crucial for you to spot implications, patterns, and possibilities. In contrast, the world of sensing (your inferior function) can feel distracting, overwhelming, or uninspiring unless it evokes a deeper meaning or insight inside of you.

When you experience grip stress, you feel mentally scattered and distractible. Your typically focused, insightful perspective becomes foggy, panicky, and tense. You feel like it’s impossible to simply think. Instead, you fall into the grip and focus on “acting.”

*Symptoms of an INFJ or INTJ being in grip stress (they may experience some or all of these symptoms):*

They become reckless and impulsive
They overeat, drink too much, or binge in some way
They lose touch with their imagination
They stop being able to sense possibilities
They make factual mistakes
They lose things, drop things, bump into things, and get infuriated by the physical world
They overindulge in sensory pleasures
They see the outside world as “out-to-get-them”
They obsess over data and facts
They feverishly clean their environment or organize materials
*Read This Next:* Understanding INFJ “Grip” Stress

12 Stress-Busting Techniques for INTJs

*ISFJ and ISTJ Grip Stress*
As an ISFJ or ISTJ, you crave a world that is stable, secure, and peaceful. Grounded in reality, you trust the evidence of your senses and review and assimilate facts in order to create the life you want. You feel the best way to guard yourself against unforeseen risks is to carefully manage all the details in your environment and fill your knowledge base with steady, relied-upon facts. Because you trust sensing so much, the world of intuition, in contrast, can feel ungrounded, unrealistic, or even irresponsible. That said, intuition colors your perspectives, allowing you to see possibilities with objects as well as negative possibilities that you want to circumvent.

When you are in the grip of your inferior function, you feel pessimistic, scattered, and worried. Your mind feels foggy and you lose track of details. Your extraverted intuition fills your mind with catastrophic possibilities and you lose your typical ability to focus on one thing at a time.

*Symptoms of an ISFJ or ISTJ being in grip stress (they may experience some or all of these):*

They lose the ability to keep track of details
They become more impulsive
They worry about all the things that could go wrong
They catastrophize about impending doom
They sense danger everywhere
They are uncharacteristically spontaneous
They become less responsible than usual
They feel confused, anxious, panicky, and distracted
They have sarcastic, cynical humor
They come up with unrealistic, untested possibilities in hope of solving a problem
*INFP and ISFP Grip Stress*
As an INFP or ISFP, you typically approach the world with a gentle, open, flexible perspective. You strive to respect your own and others’ values and live a life of integrity and meaning. Experiencing inner harmony is crucial to you, and you experience this harmony by staying on a trajectory that aligns with your deepest sense of purpose in life. The world of thinking can seem too detached, impersonal, or dominating for your taste. You may have thinking friends and loved ones, but when you try to enter that mindset it tends to feel exhausting unless you can find a way to use it to serve your feeling-centered values and goals.

When you experience grip stress, you become less concerned with harmony and tact. You stop caring about others’ feelings as much and react quickly, without worrying about careful evaluation. Often this takes on the form of mulling over bitter thoughts towards others or becoming sarcastic and passive-aggressive. You will feel a restless urge to organize everything around you and “fix” errors that seem like raging fires in desperate need of extinguishing.

*Symptoms of an INFP or ISFP being in grip stress (they may experience some or all of these):*

They feel disconnected from their values and deeper feelings
They hyper-fixated on accomplishing tasks
They quickly judge others as incompetent
Their criticisms become more withering and aggressive
They become hypersensitive to others’ mistakes
They become nitpicky about logic
They feel mentally stifled and stuck, like there is no possibility
They are short-tempered and blaming
They feel an enormous urge to take action and “solve” problems
*INTP and ISTP Grip Stress*
As an INTP or ISTP, you typically approach the world with curiosity and a hunger for understanding. You see yourself as a dispassionate observer, using objective analysis to understand the principles of how things work. You have the ability to focus on complex problems and understand their intricacies in a way that would make other types restless. If you’re an ISTP, you try to bring your analytical side into the real world through experimentation and hands-on activities. If you’re an INTP, you enjoy putting ideas together to form new theories or conceptual possibilities. The world of feeling can seem unpredictable and overwhelming to you because it’s hard to logically organize and categorize the components of it.

When you are in the grip of your inferior function, you feel mentally slowed down and foggy. Your typically focused, analytical perspective becomes cloudy, scattered, and inefficient. You feel confused and mentally disorganized, struggling to concentrate on anything.

*Symptoms of an INTP or ISTP being in grip stress (they may experience some or all of these symptoms):*

They become forgetful and scattered
They are uncharacteristically impatient and demanding
They obsess over their relationships and worry that others are rejecting them
They are emotionally hypersensitive
They feel detached and isolated from others
They worry that they are unlovable
They become outwardly emotional and sentimental
They seek affirmation and consolation from others
They struggle to hold back their irritability and anger
They are overwhelmed by emotions from others
*ENTJ or ESTJ Grip Stress*
As an ENTJ or ESTJ, you value efficient and effective decision-making. Setting goals and implementing ways to reach those goals gives you a strong sense of satisfaction. Being competent as well as being surrounded by competent people is crucial to you. Typically honest, direct, and straightforward, you enjoy constantly moving forward, being productive, and reaching new benchmarks and achievements. In contrast to your dominant thinking side, your feeling side can feel overly-sentimental, emotional, or illogical. This is because your experience of introverted feeling is inferior, not dominant. Introverted feeling isn’t about being sentimental or emotional but about maintaining inner harmony, clarifying values, and deciding tasks based on what’s personally meaningful and important. Inferior introverted feeling is a less-mature form of introverted feeling, and so its nuance is less evident.

When you are in the grip of your inferior function, you feel uncharacteristically emotional, insecure, and unmotivated. You may lose your ability to think logically and become scattered in your focus, unable to make decisions quickly like you usually can.

*Symptoms of an ENTJ or ESTJ being in grip stress (they may experience some or all of these symptoms):*

They feel unappreciated and taken for granted
They become disorganized and lose things
Work feels exhausting and overwhelming to them
They struggle to verbalize what they are thinking or feeling
They become more detached, reclusive, and isolated
They become hypersensitive to their emotions
They react with strong emotional outbursts
They misinterpret others’ comments as personal attacks
They lash out at others because they feel they are being treated unfairly
They try to repress their growing feelings until they explode on someone
*ENFJ and ESFJ Grip Stress*
As an ENFJ or ESFJ, you approach life with a desire to form close bonds with others. You want to understand people, get in their shoes, and create harmonious experiences. The well-being of others is often your first focus and it’s natural for you to uphold values that will get everyone’s needs met. In contrast to your dominant feeling side, your inferior thinking side can seem impersonal, dull, or insensitive. Because you experience introverted thinking in an inferior way, you’re likely to dismiss its value unless it serves a greater feeling-based purpose.

When you are in the grip of your inferior function, you become uncharacteristically withdrawn and more detached from the world around you. Other people’s feelings feel invasive rather than welcome and you experience a numb sensation emotionally.

*Symptoms of an ENFJ or ESFJ being in grip stress (they may experience some or all of these symptoms):*

They become cynical and sarcastic with people
They criticize and say terse, condescending remarks
They “guilt trip” others
They become judgmental towards themselves and others
They feel self-protective
They feel embarrassed for feeling out-of-control
They look for an absolute truth to solve their problems
They wind up in analysis-paralysis
They look to experts or books to analyze problems and find logical answers
*What Do You Do About Grip Stress?*
There are many ways to snap out of a grip stress episode. One of the most crucial things to do is to get alone for a few moments, practice deep breathing, and calm your body physically. Take this time to assess any immediate physical needs that are lacking. Ask yourself these questions:

Have you eaten enough?
Are you dehydrated?
Are you sleep-deprived?
Have you been holding in physical tension for too long?

Focus on relaxing your body, breathing deeply, and taking care of immediate physical problems that might be exacerbating your stress. Try not to eat sugar as this can cause a cortisol spike that only increases your stress in the long-term. Sometimes relaxing and placing a heat wrap around your neck or taking a hot shower can help you to de-compress.

After you’ve had some time to tend to your physical needs and calm your body down, look for stress-reduction techniques that are suited to your personality. I’ve written two articles that address the various ways each type can ease up on their stress. You can see the articles below:

Here’s What Each Introverted Myers-Briggs® Personality Type Needs When They’re Stressed

Here’s What Each Extroverted Myers-Briggs® Personality Type Needs When They’re Stressed

*What Are Your Thoughts?*
Do you have any insights, perspectives, or suggestions to share? Let us know in the comments!









What You're Like During Grip Stress, Based On Your Myers-Briggs® Personality Type


Have you ever reached a point when you’re stressed where you suddenly just don’t care anymore? Do you ever “flip a switch” and start acting in ways that would be totally unlike you when you’re calm? You could be experiencing “grip” stress. Let’s explore what grip stress is, why it happens, and...



www.psychologyjunkie.com


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## littlewyng (Sep 17, 2020)

Spot on...


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## sxfiya (Mar 14, 2021)

OP: guys can I get some help/ support/ advice 
@Red Panda : 😡🔪😛😈👺👻👹💃

you guys are clearly misunderstanding not only everything I say, but the essence of mbti itself. You think you’re so edgy for not subscribing to the mainstream archetypal model when, like _every_ science, it’s theories were further elaborated on by its students.
The idea of a grip comes from Carl Jungs description of being “In the grip of the daimon”, where your compensatory function comes up from the unconscious, promoting self doubt and suffering.



Red Panda said:


> He rids himself of the restrictions of reason, only to fall a victim to unconscious neurotic compulsions in the form of oversubtle, negative reasoning, hair-splitting dialectics, and a compulsive tie to the sensation of the object. His conscious attitude, both to the sensation and the sensed object, is one of sovereign superiority and disregard. Not that he means to be inconsiderate or superior -- he simply does not see the object that everyone else sees; his oblivion is similar to that of the sensation-type -- only, with the latter, the soul of the object is missed. For this oblivion the object sooner or later takes revenge in the form of hypochondriacal, compulsive ideas, phobias, and every imaginable kind of absurd bodily sensation. [p. 468]


why don’t you read the sentences literally right before this quote? *The unconscious of the intuitive has a certain similarity with that of the sensation-type. Thinking and feeling, being relatively repressed, produce infantile and archaic thoughts and feelings in the unconscious, which may be compared with those of the countertype. They likewise come to the surface in the form of intensive projections, and are just as absurd as those of the sensation-type, only to my mind they lack the other's mystical character; they are chiefly concerned with quasi-actual things, in the nature of sexual, financial, and other hazards, as, for instance, suspicions of approaching illness.



Allostasis said:


> Except a lot of things, because in Jung's typology there are 4 psychological functions that concern flow of libido. "extraverted functions" don't exist as separate functions in it.


And yet, he said concerning flow of libido 
_The two types are so essentially different, presenting so striking a contrast, that their existence, even to the [p. 413] uninitiated in psychological matters becomes an obvious fact, when once attention has been drawn to it_ 
That’s why he outlined _8_ types and not “four types that can either be introverted or extroverted”


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## sxfiya (Mar 14, 2021)

Aw that sounds rough, seems like he is really stressing. But it also seems like you’re doing a really good job of helping him out and being patient. You taking the executive position on things such as the printer is going to give him less things to stress about, so even if it’s frustrating you’re probably helping a lot. 
entps when healthy are usually quite chill and easygoing, is it weird seeing your dad in this kind of state?


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## littlewyng (Sep 17, 2020)

sxfiya said:


> OP: guys can I get some help/ support/ advice
> @Red Panda : 😡🔪😛😈👺👻👹💃


Lol it’s ok, I don’t mind. Argue away ENTPs. 😄

and thanks- but yeah it’s reeeeeeally hard keeping our cool- we lost it last night despite trying not to- basically insisting he has been doing everything himself (thank for my ESTJ brother wasn’t here he would have lost it) to the point where my mother told me I should head back to the west coast, no more to do here- at which point he yelled because I needed to help him with stuff 🤦🏻‍♀️ then this morning he is happy and chatty. 

very hard to watch, especially since we are the two NTs and always relate better to each other. I still hope he’s in there somewhere.


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## sxfiya (Mar 14, 2021)

Aw that sounds super rough. It’s hard when your family members are in a bad spot because you’re trying to help them but then they end up taking their stress and frustration out on you. At least he’s happy and chatty this morning 😂
He is, you guys will get through this. He’s dealing with things he needs to cope with but he will work them out soon enough


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## littlewyng (Sep 17, 2020)

Yeah exactly- thanks for the good thoughts!  

Luckily I have my INTJ power of internal eye rolling.


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## Allostasis (Feb 2, 2021)

@sxfiya 


> That’s why he outlined _8_ types and not “four types that can either be introverted or extroverted”
> _The two types are so essentially different, presenting so striking a contrast, that their existence, even to the [p. 413] uninitiated in psychological matters becomes an obvious fact, when once attention has been drawn to it_


I am not sure if this is supposed to contradict with what I said.
I said 4 functions, not 4 types.

And these 8 types are composed by combining each function with 2 possible types of attitude (E and I).
There is a great deal of difference between types, surely, but Xe and Xi types still share the same function.
And you can abstract away the type of attitude and talk only about isolated properties fundamental to said "X".
There wouldn't be any sense for Jung to present functions separately detached from the type of attitude if they wouldn't hold any meaning by themselves.


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## littlewyng (Sep 17, 2020)

Thanks!! It’s interesting looking back at where things were a year ago, I’ve learned so much.


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## littlewyng (Sep 17, 2020)

sorry to necro this one but wanted to note in case anyone reads this string in future- that this was actually the beginning symptoms of Parkinson's. symptom that we didn't connect as anything related was that he lost his sense of smell.


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