# "Women like jerks"



## ficsci (May 4, 2011)

The Proof said:


> nice guy likes me for who I am
> he is too nice, makes me sick
> douchebag flirts with me at the bar
> I'm going to suck his dick


Is this actually true? (´・__・｀)

Well, actually on top of just the hooking-up, I'd also like to know whether women date and have relationships with "jerks" over nice guys. I don't know how to answer this as I have no experience, but I'm interested to know why, for some reasons, guys often say stuff like this, while publicly, women tend to say they like nice guys (even among other women). I'd like to hear the story told from women's perspective.


Thanks @The Proof for the thought-provoking poem :laughing:


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## Kyandigaru (Mar 11, 2012)

I dumped two guys BECAUSE they were jerks...


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## Kanerou (Oct 8, 2009)

As someone else once said, I think "jerk" is a catch-all term for "men who are not me".


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## Wellsy (Oct 24, 2011)

For some I suppose, but I've been wondering if kindness is a peripheral trait in attractiveness.
It certainly has it's appeal but I can't imagine someone being sexually aroused because of kindness hahaha

But women going for 'jerks' and not for 'nice' lads?
Depends on the woman and what she's after, I don't think women are naive in being able to recognize poor behavioral traits in others but their personality and attitude at that moment determines whether those traits tolerable or not when that's tied into other qualities. Attraction certainly isn't simple as being kind or being a jerk.


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## FallingSlowly (Jul 1, 2013)

No, I don't. 

Whom I perceive as a jerk however might differ from what other women think. Is there much else to say?


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## g_w (Apr 16, 2013)

Kanerou said:


> As someone else once said, I think "jerk" is a catch-all term for "men who are not me".


Off-topic, but I stole that cat from your .sig to use as my screensaver. 

Hmm, maybe not so off-topic. Does that make me a jerk? :wink:


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## g_w (Apr 16, 2013)

Wellsy said:


> For some I suppose, but I've been wondering if kindness is a peripheral trait in attractiveness.
> It certainly has it's appeal but I can't imagine someone being sexually aroused because of kindness hahaha
> 
> But women going for 'jerks' and not for 'nice' lads?
> Depends on the woman and what she's after, I don't think women are naive in being able to recognize poor behavioral traits in others but their personality and attitude at that moment determines whether those traits tolerable or not when that's tied into other qualities. Attraction certainly isn't simple as being kind or being a jerk.


Women are often attracted (aroused) by masculinity and confidence:
The jerks and douchebags project this strongly, by seeming to be "their own man" unaffected by cultural mores.
The PUA types combine the assertiveness with hitting a woman's emotional buttons to effectuate rapid sexual escalation.
The real men are the ones who actually *have* the qualities the jerks, douchebags, and PUAs present, but are both seeking for,
and intend, commitment.

Women want the kind, tender, gentle stuff: but only in a man they are already in a relationship with.

If a man leads only with that, he comes across as Alan Alda.


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## Eddy Kat (Sep 10, 2012)

I know this guy and he's one of the nicest guys I've ever met. But he's too nice, he's sort of a doormat.. He lets girls do as they please with him.. And I think that's unattractive.
I believe there's a difference between nice and too nice.
As for jerks.. I guess it depends on the level of jerk-ness?


What he ^ said.


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## Wellsy (Oct 24, 2011)

@g_w
Alan Alda is a chick magnet, what you talking 'bout!? hahahaha
I WATCHED MASH!


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## g_w (Apr 16, 2013)

Wellsy said:


> @_g_w_
> Alan Alda is a chick magnet, what you talking 'bout!? hahahaha
> I WATCHED MASH!


Only to some women: my wife despises him.
Of course, she's purebred German by descent, so your mileage may vary.

http://static.someecards.com/someecards/usercards/1334504940059_5495633.png


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## Aquamarine (Jul 24, 2011)

Well, most do.


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## Crystall (Mar 30, 2010)

Women aren't attracted to men that are jerks to women, this is a common misconception - made by other men - because women are sometimes attracted to men that are jerks to other men. 

Basically, according to evolutionary psychology, women are "programmed" to be sexually attracted to men who can produce the healthiest and strongest offspring. Unsurprisingly, this can sometimes lead to choices in men that seem all but rational; such as choosing an an incredibly sexy biker with a strong jawline, over a pasty faced scientist who makes a lot of money. The biker may have a very stable psyche, and the scientist may have absolutely no social skills. The bottom line is a lot of "nice" guys are actually whiny, needy, clingy, immature men and aren't nearly as nice as they think they are. 
Men have a sort of hierarchy which they create among themselves. Upon first meeting another male they have different ways of "challenging" each other, to see where in the hierarchy they belong. Just like wolves, men with a stronger psyche, better athletic abilities and leadership skills rate higher. We have the alpha males, the beta males, and what you may call the omega males. Beta males are usually quite aware of their social inferiority, and will usually follow suit, but the omega males can be completely oblivious to the social hierarchy, and may therefore either continually make wild attempts to get attention, or begin to avoid male companionship completely. 

Basically, a lot of women are attracted to alpha males. These men can sometimes appear to be "jerks," perhaps while trying to impress a woman, but they are not necessarily jerks at all, but can in fact be very sweet and treat their woman very well, while at the same time continuing to dominate other men in order to maintain the social equilibrium.


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## Wonszu (Sep 25, 2013)

Oh, I love jerks. When they lay on the ground, crying for mercy. :dry:


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## monemi (Jun 24, 2013)

I think 'nice guys' assume women have experienced the jerk side of jerk's characters directly when they date them. How dumb would that be to be the first impression to offer a woman you're interested in? I've learned men can be really, really nice to me. But turn out to be jerks later. They start out as fun, confident and interesting. And sometimes they turn out to be also controlling and mean-spirited. But that's not what they advertised and that's not the show they try to keep up around women they're interested in. I've rarely seen guys directly turn that nastiness against me. Controlling usually shows up first. Nastiness isn't immediately apparent.


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## Diphenhydramine (Apr 9, 2010)

It's a thing that happens in like, secondary school, I guess.


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## Kysinor (Mar 19, 2009)

I just want some females (the ones I perceive as good) to be attracted to me. I don't care otherwise that much to be honest... I just want people (including females) to choose who they want to be attracted to... free will and stuff like that...


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## L (Aug 12, 2011)

My older cousin still lives in the small area he grew up in. Pretty much everyone knows his name and knows that he's a hump'em and dump'em type. They still flock to him. He has called a woman a whore to her face and she still texted him an hour later pretending nothing happened (I seen the text messages, I watched as she got pissed off and drove away after being called a whore). They know these things, they still want to sleep with him and a very large number still want to date him. 

The women love jerks thing is all true and my older cousin will be the first to testify.

Men aren't really any better though...

I'm convinced attraction is a negative addiction.


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## WhiteTulips (Sep 28, 2012)

No, women date men who are assertive and confident. When "nice guys" say this crap, they are referring to the universal "nice guy" tendency to put the woman they like on a pedestal and worship her. They consider guys who don't do this to be jerks since they can't possibly love the girl as much, not realizing that people don't enjoy being treated that way. They can't comprehend treating her like a real human because to them she is just a symbol of the love/sex they are so desperate for. To quote one of my favorite comments on the subject, "women want to be swept up into an adventure, they don't want to be the adventure".


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## OrdinarinessIsAFWTD (Jun 28, 2011)

So... the seventeen trillion dollar question:

Why shouldn't all males be socialized to be as ruthless and machiavellian as possible in the first place? Not only does it seem to pay off greater dividends with the opposite sex, but also amid the working world. 'Extinctify' the nice guy, if you will.


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## Donovan (Nov 3, 2009)

Diphenhydramine said:


> It's a thing that happens in like, secondary school, I guess.


LOL, no shit (to both "let's be an ass to get the girl" + "some insecure guy trying to _dominate_ me to maintain 'social equilibrium' "--what the fuck? ... although, i'll be a hypocrite and say that i have jokingly referred to some guys as "beta males nipping at my heels"--not because they are/were permanently "lower on the totem pole" by some arbitrary measuring stick--but because they were actively lowering themselves by even attempting this sort of ridiculous bullshit, and they always end up looking like an idiot because 1) it backfires j99% of the time, and 2) it looks beyond desperate).

guess that makes me an "omega" after, all since i don't fall in line with the "adult" version of attempting to inflate my worth by some arbitrary standard... . 


i find this, and how one rates in on the social sphere, has much more to with their surrounding and what they want from it. if i'm around people who think this way, i really can't be fucking bothered to try and "compete" as there isn't anything there i want to begin with. 

(lol)


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## Donovan (Nov 3, 2009)

Meritocrat said:


> So... the seventeen trillion dollar question:
> 
> Why shouldn't all males be socialized to be as ruthless and machiavellian as possible in the first place? Not only does it seem to pay off greater dividends with the opposite sex, but also amid the working world. 'Extinctify' the nice guy, if you will.


because they won't stick around to help raise the child if they're sociopaths.

edit: and higher-mammals tend to help in when it comes to child-rearing--whether it be through communal or through partnership. it's a give and take to our social/biological evolution.


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## The Wanderering ______ (Jul 17, 2012)

I don't think women are attracted to jerks so much that they are attracted to confident males and MOST of the time confident males are jerks. However a lot of that starts to turn around after high school. You see in high school a lot of jerks are conformative degenerates that decide to play the role that would earn them the highest amount of popularity in that setting. Once they get out of high school a lot of that starts to change. Its funny to watch guys who dated a lot of girls in high school start to dwindle once they get out. Its because they don't know how to adapt to the changes that have been set up for them. Women in high school tend to date the guys who have the highest amount of social value as defined by how desireable they are to everyone else. After high school though there is no stable Social Guide to who is more popular than whom so Social value ends up being translated to how likeable you are in one particular setting compared to another one. The other problem is most people are more consistently preoccupied with work after High school so women don't have a lot of time to waste on guys. Now of course some do, but just as many don't. Really the only jerks who end up "Winning" after high school are those who go to a very populated Social college of some kind where the community aspect plays a big role in the day to day life of the campus, but IMO thats just another 4 years of fantasy roaming before you end up in the REAL world with REAL women who have REAL problems and REAL responsibilities and REALly don't care about you because they know they don't REALly need you in their lives. 

And so begins the many days of Awkward introductions, happy conversation, awkward silences, Nerve-wracking first dates, Non-existent second dates, Last minute dates,Subtle Rejections, not so subtle rejections, failed pick up artist strategies, endless amounts of pep talks, and more internet self-help articles than even Wikipedia can archive.


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

A good man is an asshole when he needs to be.

An asshole is a nice guy when he wants to be. 

There's a difference.


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## The Wanderering ______ (Jul 17, 2012)

NK said:


> A good man is an asshole when he needs to be.
> 
> An asshole is a nice guy when he wants to be.
> 
> There's a difference.


Can I get rid of the asshole and just have the whole ass instead?


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## Alaya (Nov 11, 2009)

Perhaps it's not that women like men who are jerks but the fact that most jerks tend to(or at least appear) more self-confident and dominant. I believe, though, that women who are insecure and feel powerless will gravitate towards these kinds of men, but other women who are not so dependent on others will find these types rather unattractive.


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## Sara Torailles (Dec 14, 2010)

Wonszu said:


> Oh, I love jerks. When they lay on the ground, crying for mercy. :dry:


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## Tad Cooper (Apr 10, 2010)

Eddy Kat said:


> I know this guy and he's one of the nicest guys I've ever met. But he's too nice, he's sort of a doormat.. He lets girls do as they please with him.. And I think that's unattractive.
> I believe there's a difference between nice and too nice.
> As for jerks.. I guess it depends on the level of jerk-ness?
> 
> ...


I think ANY gender being a doormat is unattractive. Who would want someone to agree with them and do anything for them with no argument? what do you have to work for? It'll never be an equal relationship.

I find girls I know like nice guys, usually ones that are kind of artistic and maybe a bit emotional in that way. I think they like 'manly men' as 'eye candy' (to quote them XD) but not for a relationship.
I personally hate jerks and avoid them. I seem to attract jerks who don't come across as jerks but are. The 'subtle jerk'. The ones who pretend to be nice but deep down they're self absorbed and don't care about anyone else. Those are the worst jerks, the dishonest jerks.

I like nice guys, but genuinely nice guys, not ones who are emotionally needy and cling to me and want me to approve them. I don't have the energy for that anymore. I like fun guys, who don't take things too seriously, but DO care about things outside of themselves.


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## DiamondDays (Sep 4, 2012)

Women have a vested interest in saying they don't like jerks, it's a necessity for them to uphold their self-image... In reality the guys with balls gets more chicks. Also the guys who take care of themselves first and consider others later gets more chicks. That's just how it works. Jerks commonly think primarily of no.1 and have outsize balls, so it follows they get laid more. This is of course hugely generalized but it's also just the truth.


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## EccentricSiren (Sep 3, 2013)

Guys often say this because they think they're nice and they got rejected, when chances are, it wasn't just because he was nice. And while the other guy may have really been a jerk, the rejected guy may just have perceived him as such because he (perceived jerk) got the girl and nice guy didn't.
And while I'll admit I've been attracted to a few jerks, the attraction usually wore off when I realized they were jerks. But I don't think a woman's thought process is usually, "Damn, that guy seems like a total asshole. I've so gotta go after him!" It's more like, "Wow. He seems so mysterious and unattainable and fascinating and confident."


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## Pyroscope (Apr 8, 2010)

I've been a 'nice guy' (in the pseudo-sense) and still have traits of it these days. I think we come off as very disingenuous. By trying to be all-accomodating and pretending not to have preferences or emotional failings, we show ourselves as the insecure and hollow people we really are.

Basically, a big problem for 'nice guys' is wanting to be perfect and thus downplaying their negative characteristics and overplaying those of other men. In doing this, is it surprising that we end up convinced that other women like jerks but never nice guys (since we're ignoring our own inner jerk and ignoring the inner kindness of other guys).

If you want to be nice, that involves seeing yourself when you're being a jerk and being able to understand why and to talk about it. You can't take an antidote without knowing the poison to counteract.


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## Death Persuades (Feb 17, 2012)

Kanerou said:


> As someone else once said, I think "jerk" is a catch-all term for "men who are not me".


This lol. Most men call themselves nice guys and most men call all other men jerks for even the smallest of mistakes.


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## monemi (Jun 24, 2013)

L said:


> My older cousin still lives in the small area he grew up in. Pretty much everyone knows his name and knows that he's a hump'em and dump'em type. They still flock to him. He has called a woman a whore to her face and she still texted him an hour later pretending nothing happened (I seen the text messages, I watched as she got pissed off and drove away after being called a whore). They know these things, they still want to sleep with him and a very large number still want to date him.
> 
> The women love jerks thing is all true and my older cousin will be the first to testify.
> 
> ...


And women from all lifestyles are like this? Is it possible that women from a small conservative area, raised to value macho traits in men are looking for something more exciting than the typical fare on offer? They sound bored to me. I think what you've seen is only perspective. This doesn't relate to my own experiences at all but I'll take your word for it that this is what happens in small areas where everyone knows each other.


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## FearAndTrembling (Jun 5, 2013)

Intuitively, I think that jerks "break" women. They make them believe they are worthless, and deserve to be treated like that. They form beliefs. They plant a seed inside them that is constantly nourished.

And no, it isn't just a high school thing. There are tons of intelligent adult women in abusive relationships. And it does seem extremely mind boggling to us why they are still in them. But they have their reasons.


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## The Wanderering ______ (Jul 17, 2012)

FearAndTrembling said:


> Intuitively, I think that jerks "break" women. They make them believe they are worthless, and deserve to be treated like that. They form beliefs. *They plant a seed inside them that is constantly nourished*.


I'm sorry, I LOLEd when I saw seed.


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## FearAndTrembling (Jun 5, 2013)

The Wanderering ______ said:


> I'm sorry, I LOLEd when I saw seed.


lol. didn't even catch that


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## SouthAsian (Nov 24, 2013)

Women are attracted to financially/professionally successful jerk who shows his confidence.
Not with losers who are jerks.


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## monemi (Jun 24, 2013)

FearAndTrembling said:


> Intuitively, I think that jerks "break" women. They make them believe they are worthless, and deserve to be treated like that. They form beliefs. They plant a seed inside them that is constantly nourished.
> 
> And no, it isn't just a high school thing. There are tons of intelligent adult women in abusive relationships. And it does seem extremely mind boggling to us why they are still in them. But they have their reasons.


I think it's like lobsters in boiling water. At first the water is a good temperature. Some people won't notice it's boiling hot until they are too dependent on their partner to picture independence. This is why I think it's important to have clearly defined lines. Cross this line and it's time to end things. Don't wait to see if it gets to the point where they meet all of the qualifications for abusive. Because if it reaches that point, I suspect the real psychological damage is already done.


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## Chesire Tower (Jan 19, 2013)

FearAndTrembling said:


> Intuitively, I think that jerks "break" women. They make them believe they are worthless, and deserve to be treated like that. They form beliefs. They plant a seed inside them that is constantly nourished.
> 
> And no, it isn't just a high school thing. There are tons of intelligent adult women in abusive relationships. And it does seem extremely mind boggling to us why they are still in them. But they have their reasons.


I've seen the reverse happen as well: men who keep getting involved with women who don't appreciate them or put them down, for pretty much the same reasons.


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## L (Aug 12, 2011)

monemi said:


> And women from all lifestyles are like this? Is it possible that women from a small conservative area, raised to value macho traits in men are looking for something more exciting than the typical fare on offer? They sound bored to me. I think what you've seen is only perspective. This doesn't relate to my own experiences at all but I'll take your word for it that this is what happens in small areas where everyone knows each other.


I suppose I never thought of it from that angle...


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

There is a certain kind of douchebaggery I find so unattractive that it makes me want to vomit. I have seen it both in jocks and nerds. I have seen it in chubby white middle aged men who are complete dorks. Like one day I was in the laundry room trying to get my things, and this person who is probably somebody's unattractive dad is just standing there in front of my washer, talking to another man. When I said excuse me he said sure in a short sort of way and moved grudgingly. No sorry I am putting my fat ass in front of your laundry in a public laundry room. I can assure you I was NOT turned on.

The guy I have been seeing off and on for two years was gracious, charming and sweet when I met him. I only saw his omg what a stupid jerk side. AFTER we had sex.

Was that jerk side there before we had sex, of course. So I was not attracted to him being a jerk, per se, even if other people would have called him a jerk before I knew he could be a jerk. I swear I had only seen his good side.

I am prototypically attracted to "sensitive assholes" as a general rule. All of my boyfriends do things like write poetry or cry openly or listen to sad songs, but are capable of terrible things.

Maybe my point is that everyone is a jerk. It's just a matter of what sort of jerk you could personally tolerate. I don't know.

Women are attracted to masculine traits that can seem threatening to other men, for reasons already stated in this thread.

I will say probably though that many women see passive aggressive doormat behavior as less masculine so even if passive aggressive men can be jerks too, maybe just a smaller percentage of women are attracted to that on a deep subconscious level, IDK.

I find in the media I am attracted to an extraordinary number of IxFPs though. Like Jared Leto and Eminem, and I used to have this thing for Paul Banks. So let's not pretend that some Feeling type of man is automatically selected against. He is not.


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## dvnj22 (Apr 24, 2013)

Some women like jerks, but obviously saying all women like jerks is a wrong statement.


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## MisterD (Feb 24, 2010)

yes, yes they do. 

But if you ask me, men get too attached to the whole self-image of good guy, bad guy persona... Get over it. I think it's more that "jerk's" are more prone to take action & go for what they want, compared to a "nice guy."


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## Bastille (Nov 26, 2013)

Kanerou said:


> As someone else once said, I think "jerk" is a catch-all term for "men who are not me".


Word... When I was a kid, I was very nice and quiet but had an air of confidence... Got more attention from cuties than I knew what to do with. Now that I'm older, more abrasive, and less confident, I don't have NEARLY the luck I did before. It's confidence that seems to draw them in.


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## register (Aug 29, 2013)

I once tried to date a man-he was sexy and sweet and really very interesting but very passive. At some point in the night I looked at him and I almost had a a panic attack as it I suddenly realized I couldnt protect him...I know that sounds very odd, but it was the reality of how I felt. Then I almost felt repulsed by him. I felt horrible for feeling this way, but I think I knew innately he could not protect me and I most certainly couldnt protect him and it created this very strange backlash in my mind.

I later was in a long term relationship with a man who expressed himself in a very sweet, passive way. I came home and found him in my dress. Same repulsive response. 

Now I am dating a man who comes across as a decided asshole at times. Not to me, but just in his very blunt approach to the world. He doesnt soften the blow. And with him I feel safe and I find his strength to be comforting. Many people might find him to be a "jerk", but he can also be extremely charming when he needs to be. But yes, I like this sort of man, who some might think to be a jerk.


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## L (Aug 12, 2011)

Stelliferous said:


> The toaster was... Off? Right?


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## Empty (Sep 28, 2011)

Crystall said:


> Women aren't attracted to men that are jerks to women, this is a common misconception - made by other men - because women are sometimes attracted to men that are jerks to other men.
> 
> Basically, according to evolutionary psychology, women are "programmed" to be sexually attracted to men who can produce the healthiest and strongest offspring. Unsurprisingly, this can sometimes lead to choices in men that seem all but rational; such as choosing an an incredibly sexy biker with a strong jawline, over a pasty faced scientist who makes a lot of money. The biker may have a very stable psyche, and the scientist may have absolutely no social skills. The bottom line is a lot of "nice" guys are actually whiny, needy, clingy, immature men and aren't nearly as nice as they think they are.
> Men have a sort of hierarchy which they create among themselves. Upon first meeting another male they have different ways of "challenging" each other, to see where in the hierarchy they belong. Just like wolves, men with a stronger psyche, better athletic abilities and leadership skills rate higher. We have the alpha males, the beta males, and what you may call the omega males. Beta males are usually quite aware of their social inferiority, and will usually follow suit, but the omega males can be completely oblivious to the social hierarchy, and may therefore either continually make wild attempts to get attention, or begin to avoid male companionship completely.
> ...



The study regarding wolves is outdated and obsolete. Furthermore, human beings are not wolves. Lastly, this entire alpha-beta-omega [+ others] model is really just a byproduct of pop-psychology - you see it mostly used on the internet and in places such as PUA culture and similar places.

There are obviously archetypes which model societal phenomena but applying such simplistic models to something as complex as human civilization, let alone willfully ignoring socio-cultural differences which may induce vastly contradictory forms of behavior even when sexual courtship is the only thing being discussed is, well, quite ignorant.


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## Children Of The Bad Revolution (Oct 8, 2013)

MisterD said:


> yes, yes they do.


Er, no "they" don't.


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## Falling Leaves (Aug 18, 2011)

Damn straight. Behavioral patterns commonly seen in monkeys, wolves, primitive humans do not necessarily follow through to modern culture. The idea of 'they are alpha, and that's why all da wimminz sleep with them' has popularized as a way to simply write off the _real_ reasons some men are better at picking up women. 

They have more confidence, they don't do nice things for the sole expectation of something in return, they are willing to see one-night stands for what they really are (hey, I'm horny, you're horny, let's go) as opposed to 'have sex with me? please? pretty please? pllleeeeaaaaseee?', etcetcetc. 

Anything to avoid addressing your own faults, right?


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## Kysinor (Mar 19, 2009)

I say we should introduce some sort of law that says that people that are attracted to assholes and people that reject nice people should not be allowed to reproduce. That would be nice so we don't make sure assholes reproduce.


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## Kysinor (Mar 19, 2009)

Also females that reject nice guys on the basis on their laughable rationalizations should be included in that law.


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## Children Of The Bad Revolution (Oct 8, 2013)

Kysinor said:


> Also females that reject nice guys on the basis on their laughable rationalizations should be included in that law.


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## Kysinor (Mar 19, 2009)

isingthebodyelectric said:


>


Try harder. I'll never change and the more you try the worse it becomes....


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## android654 (Jan 19, 2010)

Kysinor said:


> Also females that reject nice guys on the basis on their laughable rationalizations should be included in that law.





Kysinor said:


> I say we should introduce some sort of law that says that people that are attracted to assholes and people that reject nice people should not be allowed to reproduce. That would be nice so we don't make sure assholes reproduce.












You won the thread. I don't think anything else needs to be said. Back your bag folks. You don't have you go home, but you can't stay here.


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## L (Aug 12, 2011)

monemi said:


> And women from all lifestyles are like this? Is it possible that women from a small conservative area, raised to value macho traits in men are looking for something more exciting than the typical fare on offer? They sound bored to me. I think what you've seen is only perspective. This doesn't relate to my own experiences at all but I'll take your word for it that this is what happens in small areas where everyone knows each other.


So I thought about it and I do not believe this to be true, at least not for most of them. There are simply too many women that flock to him for this explanation to work for everybody. Some of them? Sure, it makes sense for some of them but there are just too many different kinds of women for this explanation to work for all of them. 



fourtines said:


> He is probably good looking, funny, charming, and hung like a horse.


Good looking => not ugly but not an Adonis either, so somewhere in between those two extremes. I'd say slightly above average but then again I'm a straight male so... 

Funny=> Can be but then again so can I and it has yet to work for me. 

Charming => Not to me but I suppose he can be to other women

Hung like a horse => nope, he's just average. 



> I don't mean to be blunt, but he is not getting laid BECAUSE he is a jerk. He just also happens to be a jerk. He may be a sociopath. They get lots of ladies.


He's not a sociopath, just somebody who uses women. ENTJ type 3w2 (I've had him tested and the test results match up to his own expectations as well as my own). 

It's also really hard to blame the guy for it either, they literally just flock to him on some occasions...

EDIT: also, it's funny that you say that he's not getting laid because he is a jerk but also say that sociopaths get lots of women. What exactly do you mean with these two statements?


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## Children Of The Bad Revolution (Oct 8, 2013)

Kysinor said:


> Try harder. I'll never change and the more you try the worse it becomes....


O...kay. Backing away slowly now...lol

Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk


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## Kysinor (Mar 19, 2009)

I'm actually quite harmless. I'm just stubborn and I agree that there are times there are males that aren't genuinely nice to females but I don't mean such females. Of course it may be just a myth in some circumstances... but ya... I am like I am... whatever...


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## thejock (Aug 31, 2013)

Telling other guys are jerks is just a way for yourself to hide your own negative sides.


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## Kanerou (Oct 8, 2009)

isingthebodyelectric said:


> O...kay. Backing away slowly now...lol


Eh, he's not a wild animal. He shouldn't give chase if you run away screaming.


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## monemi (Jun 24, 2013)

L said:


> So I thought about it and I do not believe this to be true, at least not for most of them. There are simply too many women that flock to him for this explanation to work for everybody. Some of them? Sure, it makes sense for some of them but there are just too many different kinds of women for this explanation to work for all of them.


Well then, I don't know what to say. I've never slept with a guy who had women flocking to them. Nothing against them, but I've always preferred safe sex with one partner who isn't sleeping other people. There didn't have to be special lovey dovey feelings, but companionship was part of the deal. 

My best friend and cousin, slept with a lot of girls in his teens. First his behaviour became erratic, then he started going through a lot of girls. He was diagnosed with schizophrenia (who would have thought promiscuity and schizophrenia can go hand in hand?) and since he's been taking meds and going to therapy, he's gotten a handle on it. I was pretty scared for him. I thought he was going to come home with AIDS or sleep with the wrong bloke's girlfriend and get his face rearranged. He still attracts women but he isn't sleeping around. He's a good guy, not a jerk and what he'd really like is a LTR but he can't seem to make it past the 3 month point. 

I think there's a lot more to this sort of thing than just 'women like jerks.'


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## L (Aug 12, 2011)

monemi said:


> Well then, I don't know what to say. I've never slept with a guy who had women flocking to them. Nothing against them, but I've always preferred safe sex with one partner who isn't sleeping other people. There didn't have to be special lovey dovey feelings, but companionship was part of the deal.


Something to do with status, I think. He was fairly well known when he was in high school because he was really good at basketball (and still is, for a 30 year old bald guy [shit talk is not optional on basketball courts or when discussing basketball]). He openly admits that he gets to sleep with a number of women because of this one simple fact. Women do love status and seek it out in men, I don't know about biological reasoning or anything like that but I do believe in what my own observations tell me. 



> My best friend and cousin, slept with a lot of girls in his teens. First his behaviour became erratic, then he started going through a lot of girls. The number of girls piled up. He was diagnosed with schizophrenia (who would have thought promiscuity and schizophrenia can go hand in hand?) and since he's been taking meds and going to therapy, he's gotten a handle on it. I was pretty scared for him. I thought he was going to come home with AIDS or sleep with the wrong bloke's girlfriend and get his face rearranged. He still attracts women but he isn't sleeping around. He's a good guy, not a jerk and what he'd really like is a LTR but he can't seem to make it past the 3 month point.


I'm sorry that you both went through that, but I do find that very interesting... He was mentally unbalanced and had sex with a large number of women. 



> I think there's a lot more to this sort of thing than just 'women like jerks.'


I honestly don't. I honestly believe that women liking jerks is the rule and not the exception.

Maybe my experiences will change as I, and others in my age range, age. But at least within my age range, this is the rule. I actually just kind of gave up on women a few months ago and met someone that I liked. I wasn't nice to her because I wanted anything I was nice to her because I genuinely liked her. She seemed to like me as well and I wasn't nice as in "doormat nice" I was just myself. I asked her out and she went back to her ex-boyfriend and there have been multiple people that have known her far longer than me that all say "He's a jerk/asshole/douchebag". What this means is that she likely already knows as they have had an on again off again type of relationship, from what I've been told. I don't know this guy personally and nor have I ever met him and I doubt I ever will but it's just another, and most recent, example to add to my mountain of experiences both firsthand and secondhand on this subject. They all point to one thing: this is a real rule, at least for people within my age range as I have noticed a massive difference in people that are older than my age range of about 5 years or so. 

Being a demisexual/asexual is probably a biological disadvantage but I greatly envy them... They have more freedom in this area and can truly choose someone based on their heart alone and I wish I could do that, I would probably be happier for it. I consider them to be very lucky...


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## marsec (Nov 6, 2012)

Obviously not all women are going to like jerks and even from the group of those who do, not all will admit it because it goes against most social norms to do so. 

The other issue is there are many breeds of jerk. Some people think they are jerks but they are just try-hards. Others are still children inside who heard somewhere that being a jerk would get them laid so they go out of their way to do over the top "mean" things. Others are just really sensitive inside and put up a front as a defense mechanism so people don't realize this.

I'd say the type of jerk I've seen score the most women from the widest variety of walks of life is the confident and indifferent jerk. A jerk who isn't a jerk because he is trying to get something, but because he honestly doesn't care about what anyone thinks of him. There is a strange difference in the energy of someone who lets say, throws a paper airplane at a girl's head because he thinks it is funny vs because he wants her to notice him. If the "jerk" is looking for the latter then it sort of comes through in the way he checks the girls reaction after the fact whereas the indifferent jerk would probably already have moved on after a small laugh. Think about how you would feel in either situation; probably a lot more disgusted with the guy if he was looking at you giving a creepy smile checking your reaction vs if you saw him laughing and having a good time and knew it wasn't personal (maybe you'd throw one back at him?).

The other thing I have noticed is that you don't really need to be a jerk to have confidence and indifference. You can have these qualities without malicious behaviour and I see it often in people I notice as smooth-talkers who are busy with their own agenda (the politician who shakes everyone's hand, the bartender who slides you a drink and smiles before attending to another customer, etc). Becoming a jerk however is an understandable by-product of having indifference and confidence in abundance especially if you are bored and you honestly don't care for approval anymore. Being a jerk without those qualities (the guy who is overly mean and deeply insecure in himself), always seems to be the type referred to when distaste of jerks is being talked about. 

That all said, it _still_ all depends on the woman. You hear all the time there are women who like shy sensitive awkward guys, and those who want tall dark and handsome. Everyone's story will be different.


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## monemi (Jun 24, 2013)

L said:


> I'm sorry that you both went through that, but I do find that very interesting... He was mentally unbalanced and had sex with a large number of women.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, I've never been really sure why he attracts women. My father's side of the family have a lot of boys and a lot of flirts. Maybe they like him for the same reason I like him? I find him very comforting. 

I've never gone back to an ex and I haven't noticed this pattern. I'll have to take your word for it.


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## Empty (Sep 28, 2011)

Falling Leaves said:


> Damn straight. Behavioral patterns commonly seen in monkeys, wolves, primitive humans do not necessarily follow through to modern culture. The idea of 'they are alpha, and that's why all da wimminz sleep with them' has popularized as a way to simply write off the _real_ reasons some men are better at picking up women.
> 
> They have more confidence, they don't do nice things for the sole expectation of something in return, they are willing to see one-night stands for what they really are (hey, I'm horny, you're horny, let's go) as opposed to 'have sex with me? please? pretty please? pllleeeeaaaaseee?', etcetcetc.
> 
> Anything to avoid addressing your own faults, right?



I have two friends. One is an ISTJ, and one is an ENFJ or ENFP, most likely. Anyway, back to my story.

The ISTJ is the strongest person I know, physically and mentally. He exudes authority and stereotypical "alpha" traits. Girls think he's attractive, and he wouldn't have trouble sleeping with many women except for the fact that he DOESN'T GIVE A SHIT. His sense of validation is from a personal code of conduct rooted in Russo-Ukrainian tradition and Russian Orthodoxy. It's very arrogant at its core, but it's also based on an ethical worldview. So then what? Internet playboys will probably say he's in fact a "beta" because he doesn't get laid for often. So then, having sex with multiple partners on a frequent basis is the only worthwhile trait regarding "alpha," is it? Edit: he's also a MMA fighter. Forgot to leave out that important part.

The ENFJ/ENFP, on the other hand, gets laid all the time, with pretty, interesting, and nice girls. And the weird thing is, he's as far from a "bad boy" as can possibly be. There are aspects which are very masculine; he is an amateur going professional MMA fighter/kickboxer, for example. He's tall, in very good shape, and is handsome. Obviously girls love that. Our friendship is predicated on a love for the martial arts and just generally having a good time, and the thing is, he is someone with nothing to prove, and acts like a giant goofball/teddy bear, with his friends or girlfriend. He's kind towards people, he's fucking stupid at times, he can be emotionally volatile and vulnerable, and I've seen him break down and CRY in public before. So, now what? Is he a beta because he's not the most intense, authoritative or confident person? He has emotional issues and is like a big kid. So even though he has a lot of sex, he must be beta, right? Because he's a child with emotional baggage!

You see where I'm going. People are fucking complicated creatures and pigeonholing them into THREE vague, unsophisticated and crude descriptions is sheer absurdity and leads to retarded shit like this:

http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2012/04/26/comments-of-the-week-the-parallel-universe-of-alpha-males/

Reading through that, I don't know whether to laugh or grimace.


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## mrkedi (Nov 19, 2009)

the thing is that ppl i know always throw a slut at me and expect me to date them. obviously i did not end up dating any of those sluts, but still, i really like to be with a man with good character and with integrity.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

L said:


> So I thought about it and I do not believe this to be true, at least not for most of them. There are simply too many women that flock to him for this explanation to work for everybody. Some of them? Sure, it makes sense for some of them but there are just too many different kinds of women for this explanation to work for all of them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Even if he's not a sociopath, something is wrong with him emotionally. I mean not necessarily being promiscuous, but like calling a woman a whore and all that kind of thing. 3w2 -are prone to narcissism and at the lowest level of health are pretty much Patrick Bateman. A shell of a love ideal. Romance with no heart. Sexiness with no sex in some 3 women. The empty vase, selling the idea of love or sex or beauty with no intimacy.

Is it possible that he's a pathological narcissist?

Sociopaths are very charming when they are intelligent and they want something. They also don't tend to take no for an answer.

But being an ugly stupid asshole or sociopath isn't enough IN ITSELF is my point.


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## L (Aug 12, 2011)

fourtines said:


> Is it possible that he's a pathological narcissist?
> 
> Sociopaths are very charming when they are intelligent and they want something. They also don't tend to take no for an answer.
> 
> But being an ugly stupid asshole or sociopath isn't enough IN ITSELF is my point.


No, he's just someone that got burnt before.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

L said:


> No, he's just someone that got burnt before.



By his mother? Because being burnt once by a girlfriend is hardly justification for his repeated behavior.

Both of my little life problems made it clear to me at some point that they felt hated, rejected or neglected by their mother.


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## L (Aug 12, 2011)

fourtines said:


> By his mother? Because being burnt once by a girlfriend is hardly justification for his repeated behavior.
> 
> Both of my little life problems made it clear to me at some point that they felt hated, rejected or neglected by their mother.


Nope, ex girlfriend. Him and his mother are close.

Even if it was his mother it's hardly justification.


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## Callisto88 (Sep 13, 2013)

I won't date a jerk. The end. It's not attractive and it's not the sort of person I want to be around anyway.


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## mrkedi (Nov 19, 2009)

Callisto88 said:


> I won't date a jerk. The end. It's not attractive and it's not the sort of person I want to be around anyway.


they actually look umm, dumb, after a while.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

L said:


> Nope, ex girlfriend. Him and his mother are close.
> 
> Even if it was his mother it's hardly justification.


I disagree. Charlie Manson had an absent alcoholic street hooker for a.mother, and Ted Bundy a mother who rejected him who he thought was his.older sister, plus his grandfather was violent.

Of course they are extremes who also clearly had brain issues, but if your cousin takes the rejection of one gf as grounds for basically emotionally abusing.other women, if his relationship with his mother seems fine, I would have to insist on narcissism. 

Unless there is something in his childhood you are unaware of.


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## L (Aug 12, 2011)

fourtines said:


> I disagree. Charlie Manson had an absent alcoholic street hooker for a.mother, and Ted Bundy a mother who rejected him who he thought was his.older sister, plus his grandfather was violent.
> 
> Of course they are extremes who also clearly had brain issues, but if your cousin takes the rejection of one gf as grounds for basically emotionally abusing.other women, if his relationship with his mother seems fine, I would have to insist on narcissism.
> 
> Unless there is something in his childhood you are unaware of.


Maybe, highly, highly doubtful but anything is possible. I also doubt he is actually a narcissist though as he has the ability to take criticism in stride. He's just an asshole when it comes to women, and they love him. 

One thing I don't agree with in your post though is the idea that somehow mother issues somehow gives him a pass but being burnt by an ex doesn't? What is the real difference? Rejection from someone you have put emotional investment in is the same no matter who it comes from. Why is the exgf reason looked at in contempt while the mother issues reason is looked at as broken and understandable? Have I misread your post? 

Even so though, I still say that neither are justifiable to go out and hurt people without any real cause. Your examples and people similar to your examples are evidently very weak. That kind of weakness is pathetic, I view it as a crutch. They didn't have the strength to stand up on their own two legs so they used a crutch and cursed the world while simultaneously trying to burn it to the ground to make themselves feel better. You cannot choose what happens to you in this world but you can choose how to deal with it. Now had Bundy and Manson (or similar people) had brain issues where their ability to choose how they handled it were impaired then I would be a little more sympathetic; they still have to be removed from society for the betterment of society but I can be more sympathetic. But just because someone has mother issues doesn't mean they get a pass to break as many people as they possibly can. We can try to understand them better under the scope of their hardships but if they choose to hurt others instead of trying to better their life then they only arouse disgust within me. 

I know of a few different people who have been rejected by their families or faced some kind of betrayal by their families and they are able to rise above such things. I, personally, cannot so I don't have much of a right to preach but if they can do it then other people should be able to as well. And even though I am weak I do not go around inflicting pain onto other people to make myself feel better simply because of my hardships, it's pathetic.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

L said:


> Maybe, highly, highly doubtful but anything is possible. I also doubt he is actually a narcissist though as he has the ability to take criticism in stride. He's just an asshole when it comes to women, and they love him.
> 
> One thing I don't agree with in your post though is the idea that somehow mother issues somehow gives him a pass but being burnt by an ex doesn't? What is the real difference? Rejection from someone you have put emotional investment in is the same no matter who it comes from. Why is the exgf reason looked at in contempt while the mother issues reason is looked at as broken and understandable? Have I misread your post?
> 
> ...


Well if you know anything about psychology I will tell you it's a huge difference. Parents form you, especially the mother, and mothers also have an additional sexual influence on sons. The mother son relationship is probably one of the most critical. Heterosexual daughters at least have a father influence more. Of course fathers do very real damage too, naturally.

So an ex can hurt you, but if you blame one ex for your treatment of people of that gender whom you find sexually attractive like trash, then yes I would say that you are a narcissist. Narcissists are weak people. One blow to his ego and he becomes a womanizer? Um, I almost wonder if you want to believe he's normal or well adjusted because he's your cousin.


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## L (Aug 12, 2011)

fourtines said:


> Well if you know anything about psychology I will tell you it's a huge difference. Parents form you, especially the mother, and mothers also have an additional sexual influence on sons. The mother son relationship is probably one of the most critical. Heterosexual daughters at least have a father influence more. Of course fathers do very real damage too, naturally.


I cannot relate. My parents had a hand in who I am psychologically but they did not form me, I did. My own mother rejected and neglected me and only kept me alive for government assistance and yet here I am still saying that for me to hurt women because of her is a pathetic idea. 



> So an ex can hurt you, but if you blame one ex for your treatment of people of that gender whom you find sexually attractive like trash, then yes I would say that you are a narcissist. Narcissists are weak people. One blow to his ego and he becomes a womanizer? Um, I almost wonder if you want to believe he's normal or well adjusted because he's your cousin.


I agree that he is a weak person for becoming the way he is, but he is not a narcissist, he's just an asshole. 

Haha, I assure you that I do not give anyone any lenience because they are family. Everyone is equal in my eyes until personal observation says otherwise.


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## purposive (Jun 4, 2013)

No, women who have a fragmented sense of self, suffer from attention starvation, and possibly lack any genuine opportunity to bond with key parental figures like jerks.


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## William I am (May 20, 2011)

register said:


> I once tried to date a man-he was sexy and sweet and really very interesting but very passive. At some point in the night I looked at him and I almost had a a panic attack as it I suddenly realized I couldnt protect him...I know that sounds very odd, but it was the reality of how I felt. Then I almost felt repulsed by him. I felt horrible for feeling this way, but I think I knew innately he could not protect me and I most certainly couldnt protect him and it created this very strange backlash in my mind.
> 
> I later was in a long term relationship with a man who expressed himself in a very sweet, passive way. I came home and found him in my dress. Same repulsive response.
> 
> Now I am dating a man who comes across as a decided asshole at times. Not to me, but just in his very blunt approach to the world. He doesnt soften the blow. And with him I feel safe and I find his strength to be comforting. Many people might find him to be a "jerk", but he can also be extremely charming when he needs to be. But yes, I like this sort of man, who some might think to be a jerk.


Ahh, internalized gender roles are alive and kicking. 



thejock said:


> Telling other guys are jerks is just a way for yourself to hide your own negative sides.


That is a tu quoque logical fallacy - just because I'm a also a jerk doesn't mean other guys aren't jerks.



L said:


> Being a demisexual/asexual is probably a biological disadvantage but I greatly envy them... They have more freedom in this area and can truly choose someone based on their heart alone and I wish I could do that, I would probably be happier for it. I consider them to be very lucky...


Yes, but having little to no sexual interest in people without emotional attraction makes it difficult to make the initial contact except through circles of friends.


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## L (Aug 12, 2011)

William I am said:


> Yes, but having little to no sexual interest in people without emotional attraction makes it difficult to make the initial contact except through circles of friends.


Hence the 'biological disadvantage'. I still envy them though. A demisexual's romantic love is the purest thing, don't you think?


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## chaoticbrain (May 5, 2012)

@L just because someone's says "people hurt women because of a bad childhood".

Doesn't mean everyone with a bad childhood is going to hurt women.


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## thejock (Aug 31, 2013)

William I am said:


> .
> That is a tu quoque logical fallacy - just because I'm a also a jerk doesn't mean other guys aren't jerks.


Nah that is not true either since that would assume we have a objective view of what a "jerk" is, and if you read this thread you see that the view what a jerk is, is highly subjective. The consensus is that there are different types of jerks and therefore making the assumption that I am good and they are bad is hypocritical. Or as we say in Sweden "to throw stones in houses of glass"


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## Bricolage (Jul 29, 2012)

I actually know why women like jerks. It's because those guys are more socially skilled, less needy, more confident and have higher social value. The dirtbag who makes crude jokes and basically doesn't care is (wrongly?) perceived by women as put together; in reality he could just be retarded haha. Shy guys and feminists might argue with this or the fact that women get wet off of dominance because of humanity's tribal past (e.g., alpha males) and dominance equaled survival for millions of years.* Kinda still does. There's nothing super rational about female attraction. Men mistakenly try to "present a case" on why they're rationally the best choice. Haha, that never works. Women are emotional and irrational by nature. All players know this. Become an asshole and you will have more women on your dick. /personal experience

*Women are terrible judges of character. The dominant guy too often turns out to be a degenerate wifebeater. Whoops. Nature doesn't care really. The "dominant" genes perpetuate in the baby that's produced by the woman's initial poor discernment. And the world keeps going round! Ain't life grand haha??


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## William I am (May 20, 2011)

Bricolage said:


> Spoken like a true type two lol.


A what? Lol. I don't believe the enneagram is worthwhile (I think the premise is flawed). And while I've gotten 2w3 or 3w2 a lot, I've also gotten every other number except 1 and 9.

But what do you mean?


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## monemi (Jun 24, 2013)

Bricolage said:


> Guys can get their dick wet really regularly acting aggressive and being a jackass - having social value and just being relaxed.


So what? Is this an accomplishment? Why should I care? There are lots of damaged women that some men take advantage of. This isn't news.


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## MisterD (Feb 24, 2010)

this thread is too much, so amusing!


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## L (Aug 12, 2011)

fourtines said:


> Baby, I have a lot of bile.


Haha, that made me laugh. Now to hunt for your other post that you quoted me in... 

Found it! 



fourtines said:


> The reason why I ask is because I have a sister who is a trainwreck. I know no other way to describe her. She is selfish, self destructive, ridiculously impulsive, beautiful and smart. I am actually a cross between her and my most cautious, sane, intellectual sister.
> 
> My sister has assuredly damaged her children irreparably but we were there to swoop down and save them. My protectiveness of sons with damaging mothers probably helped me to naturally swoop in as an actual guardian to my own nephew. My nephew is amazing, but because of his aunts and grandma, not so much his mom.


I'm sorry for your troubles, but I still say to blame it on that is simply making excuses for them and all of the other people. I still fail to see the difference between the different scenarios of rejection that you see. 



> Being self made is an illusion. My grandfather gave me knowledge and his hosebeast wife gave me strength. I am damaged myself and imperfect but I fare better thanks to my grandfather. My sister had her dad to deal with. I did not.


I believe that I raised myself. There are parts here and parts there that other people have contributed but most of the emotional parts contributed from my family have been poisonous. It does not add any kind of strength to my character or who I am, it only subtracts from who I could have been. 



> Even siblings have different experiences. My ESFJ sister was very close to her religious.aunt Jenny, and I had my grandparents. My trainwreck sister spent more time alone with her father than either of my other sisters. My sweet good kind nurturing schizophrenic sister was raped by her uncle.
> 
> Part of it is always a choice I agree. But much of it is genetic personality playing off of.primary role models.


I still say it's a cop out, unless there are physical brain abnormalities that handicap a person. 

All a difference in opinion I suppose...


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## L (Aug 12, 2011)

William I am said:


> I'm inclined to say "no" just to be obtuse, but .... Hmm. I dunno. The whole separation of romance and sex doesn't make sense to me. The two are inseparable to me because the one doesn't really exist without the other for me.


I don't view it as a separation of romance and sex, what normal people have is a separation. I view demisexuals love as a more unified version of romance and sex than normal people. They can love someone truly for who they are and once they love someone they begin to become sexually attracted to that person. 

Also,


> one doesn't really exist without the other


 is the basic foundation of demisexuality, albeit really watered down but still...


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## Peter (Feb 27, 2010)

Kyandigaru said:


> I dumped two guys BECAUSE they were jerks...


That means the theory is correct then!


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## William I am (May 20, 2011)

L said:


> I don't view it as a separation of romance and sex, what normal people have is a separation. I view demisexuals love as a more unified version of romance and sex than normal people. They can love someone truly for who they are and once they love someone they begin to become sexually attracted to that person.
> 
> Also, is the basic foundation of demisexuality, albeit really watered down but still...


Mmm, interesting. I think I'm sort of demisexual, but not quite. I may see someone and think they're good looking, but it all depends on who they are and if I like them.
Thanks!


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## L (Aug 12, 2011)

William I am said:


> Mmm, interesting. I think I'm sort of demisexual, but not quite. I may see someone and think they're good looking, but it all depends on who they are and if I like them.
> Thanks!


I suggest you look into it. 

There was a very nice thread about it a number of months ago that suggested demisexuality was more like a scale that Ireally agreed with. I think (probably wrong) the author's name was lionheart. 

It's probably buried though...


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## William I am (May 20, 2011)

You mean this one by @_Nobleheart_ ?

OOPS: This one: http://personalitycafe.com/sex-relationships/130568-demisexual-scale-2.html


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## Nobleheart (Jun 9, 2010)

William I am said:


> Mmm, interesting. I think I'm sort of demisexual, but not quite. I may see someone and think they're good looking, but it all depends on who they are and if I like them.
> Thanks!


Demisexuals can, and do, find people good looking. We are perfectly capable of being romantically attracted at first sight. We can meet someone and want to be emotionally closer to them with great urgency, possibly even want to be affectionate with them. What defines demisexuality is the fact that we are almost never _sexually_ attracted to people until we've formed an emotional connection with them.


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## android654 (Jan 19, 2010)

Lots of repression and projection going on in here.


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## Bricolage (Jul 29, 2012)

monemi said:


> So what? Is this an accomplishment? Why should I care? There are lots of damaged women that some men take advantage of. This isn't news.


It's not required that you care.


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## Bricolage (Jul 29, 2012)

William I am said:


> A what? Lol. I don't believe the enneagram is worthwhile (I think the premise is flawed). And while I've gotten 2w3 or 3w2 a lot, I've also gotten every other number except 1 and 9.
> 
> But what do you mean?


Yeah the whole neediness thing is enneagram two. I mean one wouldn't need to believe heliocentrism is worthwhile either for it to be true haha.


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## Bricolage (Jul 29, 2012)

Peter said:


> That means the theory is correct then!


Indeed. The guy was like thank god haha. Hit it and quit it.


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## Frenetic Tranquility (Aug 5, 2011)

.


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## Frenetic Tranquility (Aug 5, 2011)

ficsci said:


> Is this actually true? (´・__・｀)
> 
> Well, actually on top of just the hooking-up, I'd also like to know whether women date and have relationships with :"jerks" over nice guys. I don't know how to answer this as I have no experience, but I'm interested to know why, for some reasons, guys often say stuff like this, while publicly, women tend to say they like nice guys (even among other women). I'd like to hear the story told from women's perspective.
> 
> ...


I think the main reason is women use the term "nice" as if it's a legitimate reason for not dating someone. Like if they aren't attracted physically, mentally, or whatever reason, they will still use that terminology. So it starts the correlation. But there seems to be alot of truth in it (attraction to jerks) as well, esp if the female is a week out of her period....but it could just be the association jerks have with outward confidence.


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## Frenetic Tranquility (Aug 5, 2011)

Kyandigaru said:


> I dumped two guys BECAUSE they were jerks...


This implies that you dated two jerks.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

William I am said:


> Mmm, interesting. I think I'm sort of demisexual, but not quite. I may see someone and think they're good looking, but it all depends on who they are and if I like them.
> Thanks!


I honestly think that is called being normal.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Frenetic Tranquility said:


> I think the main reason is women use the term "nice" as if it's a legitimate reason for not dating someone. Like if they aren't attracted physically, mentally, or whatever reason, they will still use that terminology. So it starts the correlation. But there seems to be alot of truth in it (attraction to jerks) as well, esp if the female is a week out of her period....but it could just be the association jerks have with outward confidence.


I know that women supposedly ovulate on day fourteen or something like that, but I can be an unstoppable force of nature even right as my period is ending. Like the last day or the day after. My appetite decreases, and I feel like a nymphomaniac. I am easily manipulated when I am more easily aroused, ofc.

Maybe jerks just know when to strike. They can smell it. Literally, subconscious pheromones.


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## my jizz of apathy (Nov 18, 2013)

You can't say that all women like jerks, or nice guys.. it just doesn't work that way. There are so many variables involved with relationship dynamics. 

Women fluctuate in their tempermental preferences for mates in alignment with their menstrual cycle:

Women's Preferences for Male Behavioral Displays Change Across the Menstrual Cycle

Basically, women are unconsciously attracted to both types of guys. People in general are always wanting more from life, and don't like to settle for the half-empty cup. That means if they're with a jerk, they'll find attraction to nice guys and flirt with them more often than other jerk guys. If they're with a nice guy, they'll flirt with the jerks more often. Most of this is unconscious. They would likely not refer to it as, "flirting", as most women value fidelity, or rather dislike being labeled promiscuous.


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## paperbrain (Jan 4, 2013)

I've always liked nice guys. I think it's because I grew up around a lot of spoiled arrogant male jerks who hated my guts so maybe I got a slightly different view of men at an earlier age than other women may have, I'm not really sure. Also I have a daddy and I don't need another one. Never wanted a father figure ever. I more liked the idea of something more along the lines of a brother figure. Someone I could be on the same level with. I also tend to like men who haven't had a lot of sexual experience or even none at all. I find them sexy. I like the idea of being in bed with them and I'd be far more willing to do sexual things with them. I'm not going to say I haven't gone out on dates with jerks. I certainly won't say I haven't kissed a few. But actually bed a guy whose a jerk? Never have, never will. I'd rather screw a horse...well not actually screw a horse but you know what I'm saying.


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## WildImagineer (Jan 25, 2013)

NastyMann said:


> So basically:
> 
> Don't control the relationship but make sure you do girls think that's hot.
> 
> ...


Here's a crazy idea... maybe women can't be generalized and sublimated under a single set of rules and you simply saw two girls saying different things and got confused. 

It must be hard living in a world where you fail to realize that women are people too.


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## FreedomTickler (Sep 16, 2012)

WildImagineer said:


> Here's a crazy idea... maybe women can't be generalized and sublimated under a single set of rules and you simply saw two girls saying different things and got confused.
> 
> It must be hard living in a world where you fail to realize that women are people too.


I think there needs to be sarcasm tags for forums.

In any case though I lol'd


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## MisterD (Feb 24, 2010)

WildImagineer said:


> Here's a crazy idea... maybe women can't be generalized and sublimated under a single set of rules and you simply saw two girls saying different things and got confused.
> 
> It must be hard living in a world where you fail to realize that women are people too.


women are meat socks for my d unless proven otherwise.


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## Lucky Luciano (Nov 28, 2013)

I doubt acting like a self adsorbed jerk to a woman would be a turn on, but neither would a boot licking parasite. There is always a golden middle road, one can have a spine AND manners.


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## Sidoba (Jun 13, 2013)

Kyandigaru said:


> I dumped two guys BECAUSE they were jerks...


But you still dated them in the first place. The guys who aren't jerks (I am not going to say "nice" guys cause of the stigma that they are not genuinely nice people) get overlooked from the get go. 

In my experience, the women I know want "alpha" type traits but they want the guy to be a good person at heart and not treat them bad. I think a lot the whole "girls go for bad boys" thing is that they are going into it with the hopes that there is a secret good guy behind the bad boy facade. More often than not, they are just a**holes.


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## Kyandigaru (Mar 11, 2012)

Sidoba said:


> But you still dated them in the first place. The guys who aren't jerks (I am not going to say "nice" guys cause of the stigma that they are not genuinely nice people) get overlooked from the get go.
> 
> In my experience, the women I know want "alpha" type traits but they want the guy to be a good person at heart and not treat them bad. I think a lot the whole "girls go for bad boys" thing is that they are going into it with the hopes that there is a secret good guy behind the bad boy facade. More often than not, they are just a**holes.


I dated them because they presented the image of a nice guy. WHICH IS WHAT I LIKE A NICE GUY.

I dumped them because they were actually assholes who PRETENDED to be a nice guy.


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## Brian1 (May 7, 2011)

I think there's this eternal curse of wanting what you can't have, just because you can't have it, which makes you want it even more, which furthers the bitterness. Pink Floyd said, "love is the shadow, that ripens the wine," and, I think there's this fear on the guy's part, especially nerdy,not too athletic, socially awkward men, that they'll always be alone. And they're expressing that fear when they say "women like jerks." I could be wrong, but, I think it starts with the high school cheerleader and star football player. Well, they hang out together. They go on the road in high school, to different counties, and sleep in hotels to play rivals. So they get to living with each other, and knowing each other. And I don't think the geek understands this. So, that type of person will harbor this illusion the cheerleader is intentionally avoiding him. And many times, that's probably not the case. And I think this social beta, alpha dynamic gets worse when they hit college, and it continues like that.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Kyandigaru said:


> I dated them because they presented the image of a nice guy. WHICH IS WHAT I LIKE A NICE GUY.
> I dumped them because they were actually assholes who PRETENDED to be a nice guy.


I've seen this scenario a lot. I hate to sound like a feminist, but the unfortunate truth might just be "jerks are better at manipulating women"


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## Kyandigaru (Mar 11, 2012)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> I've seen this scenario a lot. I hate to sound like a feminist, but the unfortunate truth might just be "jerks are better at manipulating women"


 they did not manipulate...


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## googoodoll (Oct 20, 2013)

yeah we do like nice guys as long as they're hot, popular or loaded. :tongue:


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Kyandigaru said:


> they did not manipulate...


fair enough. still, I think my point stands


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## Kingdom Crusader (Jan 4, 2012)

This woman doesn't particularly like jerks. I just want a guy who's on the same boat, going the same direction, getting to the same destination as me. If he happens to seem like a little bit of a jerk to others, whatever. That's not what I'm after...


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## googoodoll (Oct 20, 2013)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> "jerks are better at manipulating women"


yawn, once again women are painted as being the victims, it's their fault if they fall for the jerk.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

googoodoll said:


> yawn, once again women are painted as being the victims



I didn't say that. there are just as many women who manipulate men. both genders are abound with manipulators and manipulatees.



> it's their fault if they fall for the jerk.


you just contradicted yourself. either I think it's the woman's fault, I believe she is the victim or neither. you don't think someone is the victim and also say it's their fault. that wouldn't make any sense


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Um I am sure I commented in this thread or one like it, but I recently thought it has more to do with halo effect than anything....women like men who are attractive. Some attractive men are assholes, but the woman is hooked on the attention or the sex, or simply already bonded to this person over time, and may even feel a need to fix or help him. I think women like hot guys, and guys especially who have gotten by on a cute face and glib charm since he was ten will easily translate this to bedroom success in adulthood, just as surely as his female counterpart would.

Also, some women have rape fantasies so then may become involved with a man who fulfills some weird sexual thing she has, that she has never been able to get from another relationship. Unfortunately, the attractive man with vaguely rapey sexual tactics is ok being this way in some cases because he is a narcissist or has aspd...so this woman gets what she is looking for sexually from the biggest asshole you know.

And on and on.

But no woman looks at some unappealing douche and says, mmm, he's an asshole, let me get with him.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

googoodoll said:


> yawn, once again women are painted as being the victims, it's their fault if they fall for the jerk.


I disagree. Apparently your sexual roadmap is formed way before puberty, and can be shaped by things like child abuse. This applies to men and women. People in many ways are unable to control who turns them on the most.

This doesn't excuse people's responsibility for their lives, but it sometimes takes people multiple relationships to fix old patterns.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Brian1 said:


> I think there's this eternal curse of wanting what you can't have, just because you can't have it, which makes you want it even more, which furthers the bitterness. Pink Floyd said, "love is the shadow, that ripens the wine," and, I think there's this fear on the guy's part, especially nerdy,not too athletic, socially awkward men, that they'll always be alone. And they're expressing that fear when they say "women like jerks." I could be wrong, but, I think it starts with the high school cheerleader and star football player. Well, they hang out together. They go on the road in high school, to different counties, and sleep in hotels to play rivals. So they get to living with each other, and knowing each other. And I don't think the geek understands this. So, that type of person will harbor this illusion the cheerleader is intentionally avoiding him. And many times, that's probably not the case. And I think this social beta, alpha dynamic gets worse when they hit college, and it continues like that.


Absolutely. A lot of times its about objectifying local celebrities in high school or college...there are plenty of beautiful ladies in school, but the cheerleader becomes a status object. But of course she would rather date a in her own circle who shares her interests, especially in high school when identity is formed, people date within their own "scene." My scene was skaters, musicians, art ****, drama kids and drop out hippies, so I never even wanted a football player, though I also had no time for valedictorian sci fi nerd guy either. 

People who find someone or who date within their group as teens probably don't have these issues as much. People who don't date or who are late bloomers or who have a narcissistic acquisition view of status trophy mates probably carry this more into adulthood.

It's all perception anyway. One man's trophy is another man's whore. It's better to be neither and actually be ...oh I don't know...loved.


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## devoid (Jan 3, 2011)

Kanerou said:


> As someone else once said, I think "jerk" is a catch-all term for "men who are not me".


Most guys who tell me, "Women only date jerks" are themselves a massive douche bag and don't realize it. I've never heard a genuinely decent person complain that women only date jerks.


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## William I am (May 20, 2011)

fourtines said:


> I disagree. Apparently your sexual roadmap is formed way before puberty, and can be shaped by things like child abuse. This applies to men and women. People in many ways are unable to control who turns them on the most.
> 
> This doesn't excuse people's responsibility for their lives, but it sometimes takes people multiple relationships to fix old patterns.



I can attest to that. (the multiple attempts to change patterns).


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## Trilaque (Jan 28, 2014)

I feel like "douchebags" have more success with women because they are able to not get caught up in their fears and present confidence around women, which is a major turn-on. _Unfortunately_, that initial attraction to that "bad boy swagger" is enough to throw some women into "date mode" before their better judgement can assess the situation.

But, what do I know, I only correctly told every female friend I ever had how their relationship would go before it ever happened. Except for one, she threw me a curve-ball, but my feelings for her at the time may have clouded my judgement to the obvious "lesbian" tones with her interactions with men.


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## aendern (Dec 28, 2013)

I think rejected men who self-identify as "nice guys" perpetuate this idea to make themselves feel better.

In reality, they are probably more accurately perceived as gross, weird, dull, and too eager to please.



devoid said:


> I've never heard a genuinely decent person complain that women only date jerks.


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## WamphyriThrall (Apr 11, 2011)

devoid said:


> Most guys who tell me, "Women only date jerks" are themselves a massive douche bag and don't realize it. I've never heard a genuinely decent person complain that women only date jerks.


I've always thought it was strange how some people will project their own insecurities on others... a similar example might be the person who constantly has to remind others that they can't stand drama, or the boyfriend/girlfriend who is constantly accusing their partner of cheating or being dishonest in general, when they're the ones going around behind their back. Could it be some subconscious process to help alleviate guilt or suffering? Humans are bizarre.


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## Alwaysadorkable (Feb 19, 2014)

I freaking hate this stereotype. Women like confidence, not jerks. Someone who is bold, and confident. Not assholes that wanna get laid, call us sluts and bitches. The only women who like jerks are those stupid girls who like "projects". "I can fix him!", bitch no you can't, he can fix his God damn self. *steps off soapbox*

Sent from my PantechP9070 using Tapatalk


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## William I am (May 20, 2011)

Alwaysadorkable said:


> I freaking hate this stereotype. Women like confidence, not jerks. Someone who is bold, and confident. Not assholes that wanna get laid, call us sluts and bitches. The only women who like jerks are those stupid girls who like "projects". "I can fix him!", bitch no you can't, he can fix his God damn self. *steps off soapbox*
> 
> Sent from my PantechP9070 using Tapatalk


Yeah, but a lot of women, especially young women, can't tell the difference between the jerks and the confident guys.


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## Alwaysadorkable (Feb 19, 2014)

William I am said:


> Yeah, but a lot of women, especially young women, can't tell the difference between the jerks and the confident guys.


I agree, that's why I feel a lot of girls should wait till they're mentally and emotionally mature enough to tell the difference. Personally, I like the shy intellectual/artist. Confidence frightens me a bit, also comes across as fake.

Sent from my PantechP9070 using Tapatalk


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## mrscientist (Jul 4, 2010)

Sociopaths are known to be good in relationships. Manipulation and fear make nice tools of the trade.

So, yes, women also like jerks. But those are not my type.


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## devoid (Jan 3, 2011)

William I am said:


> Yeah, but a lot of women, especially young women, can't tell the difference between the jerks and the confident guys.


Confidence comes in many flavors. But another thing to consider is external behavior vs. reality. People might see my boyfriend in public and think, "That guy acts so pretentious/douchey/controlling" but in reality he's an extremely nice guy who just enjoys putting on that persona for show. It amuses him that I'm willing to play along so he'll do things like grabbing me away while I'm talking or flirting with other girls we've previously agreed on, and people don't realize it's just a game. He might even say a quote from a movie like, "Gene, take that sweater off. You're prettier than that." and we get the funniest stares from angry onlookers. xD


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## wiarumas (Aug 27, 2010)

Women like confidence. 

Jerks, deushbags, other derogatory male titles typically have confidence, so it seems like they get women. 

Correlation, not causation.


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## Kingdom Crusader (Jan 4, 2012)

Funny, when I got with my ex husband, I thought he was a "nice guy", but he was the most physically abusive and manipulative man I'd met, next to my dad. My dad also puts on the nice face in front of others, too. I make it a point to try to see under the exterior now.


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## EccentricSiren (Sep 3, 2013)

@Alwaysadorkable - It could be, though, that they learn to tell the difference through experiences they have. Some people just have to learn the hard way, I guess.


I think the main issue here is that the vast majority of people seem nice at first. That's why I advocate getting to know a person before becoming exclusive with them, confiding sensitive information to them, sleeping with them, or anything else that generally requires some level of trust. Even then, though, you can go wrong.


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## Alwaysadorkable (Feb 19, 2014)

EccentricSiren said:


> @Alwaysadorkable - It could be, though, that they learn to tell the difference through experiences they have. Some people just have to learn the hard way, I guess.
> 
> 
> I think the main issue here is that the vast majority of people seem nice at first. That's why I advocate getting to know a person before becoming exclusive with them, confiding sensitive information to them, sleeping with them, or anything else that generally requires some level of trust. Even then, though, you can go wrong.


Agreed

Sent from my PantechP9070 using Tapatalk


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## WamphyriThrall (Apr 11, 2011)

High schoolers and masochists tend to go after jerks. 



wiarumas said:


> Women like confidence.
> 
> Jerks, deushbags, other derogatory male titles typically have confidence, so it seems like they get women.
> 
> Correlation, not causation.


Is it confidence, or the projection of confidence? 

The way I see it, someone truly at ease with themselves wouldn't constantly have to prove it. 

Of course, not everyone can tell the difference between the two, so they're constantly thrown under the same umbrella.


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## Azelll (Jan 19, 2011)

there is a difference between someone who seems like a "doormat" vs some who just doesn't care really I fit under that category, i will stand up for myself if I feel i care but normally I don't care about much, so i am persevered as a "doormat" type lol like my ex who said that I never make decisions for myself its not that I never did its that all the crap she persevered as important was merely small stupid things when it came to decision making and she categorized me as a doormat type for letting her make decisions, but i don't think a doormat type would make the decision to end the relationship like i did :laughing: what i wonder is, is it as annoying being with a man who just doesn't care vs someone who does but doesn't stick up for himself? and there is a difference between a jerk and someone who just brutally honest  I personally think honesty is pretty sexy


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## Chesire Tower (Jan 19, 2013)




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## mrscientist (Jul 4, 2010)

Asian_Chick said:


> I make it a point to try to see under the exterior now.


I have also had a bad experience like that where people have two faces. One for when in the family, one when meeting people. So, how to you catch these? I mostly just keep a distance to anyone new I meet and progress slowly.


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## Penguin (Sep 25, 2012)

all about the definition of the word jerk. Women, despite what most "nice guys" think don't like unbridled amounts of attention they dont want you to do whatever they say they dont want you to agree with everything or always try to please them, this doesn't make you a jerk it just makes you less desperate.

People in general respect and respond to confidence far more than they do "niceness"


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## Bricolage (Jul 29, 2012)

[No message]


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## vt1099ace (Jun 8, 2009)

So I'm *suppose *to the ladies hanging off me like apples on a tree? becuase I've been called that quite few times in my life...or I'm not a jerk _do to the fact_ I'm alone and living a life of involintary celebacy?

I'll have to contemplate this....


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## Night & Day (Jul 17, 2010)

Replace "women" with "people" and "like jerks" with "make bad decisions", so you get "_people make bad decisions_." :crazy:


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## Veggie (May 22, 2011)

Bricolage said:


> No guy wants to take that kind of riffraff back to momma's house. She looks like a walking yeast infection.


Precisely, but she sucks cock really, really well and has maintained a bit of idealism (if not total cognitive dissonance in disguise...so at least something to do...working through that...which can (does) probably feel spiritual) - so he tells her to wash her face, put on a cardigan and impress momma and the ironic tumblr feminists who slut shame by saying such things. Having your cake and eating it too


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## Bricolage (Jul 29, 2012)

Veggie said:


> Precisely, but she sucks cock really, really well and has maintained a bit of idealism (if not total cognitive dissonance in disguise...so at least something to do...working through that...which can (does) probably feel spiritual) - so he tells her to wash her face, put on a cardigan and impress momma and the ironic tumblr feminists who slut shame by saying such things. Having your cake and eating it too


That bitch would need more than a bar of soap and cardigan to take away her daddy issues and years of repressed shame.


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## Veggie (May 22, 2011)

Bricolage said:


> That bitch would need more than a bar of soap and cardigan to take away her daddy issues and years of repressed shame.


Yup, she would basically need a lobotomy. Hence - the Stepford Wife 

You've proved my point, thanks, lol.


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## Bricolage (Jul 29, 2012)

Veggie said:


> You've proved my point, thanks, lol.


Right on.


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## Veggie (May 22, 2011)

Bricolage said:


> Right on.


If you're being sarcastic...you kind of don't have much ground to stand on.



Bricolage said:


> Just like most women probably want to do "bad things" with a man but feel constrained by slut shaming, etc.


You're one of the slut shamers. You get that, right?


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## Bricolage (Jul 29, 2012)

Veggie said:


> You're one of the slut shamers. You get that, right?


Nah, I encourage the chaos. Just don't want an STD or yeast infection lol.


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## Veggie (May 22, 2011)

Bricolage said:


> Nah, I encourage the chaos. Just don't want an STD or yeast infection lol.


Right, so just be real and call chicks you're afraid of infecting you (or others) sluts. Stop with the moral/philosophical high ground


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## Bricolage (Jul 29, 2012)

Veggie said:


> Right, so just be real and call chicks you're afraid of infecting you (or others) sluts.


When did this happen?


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## Bricolage (Jul 29, 2012)

Veggie said:


> Right, so just be real and call chicks you're afraid of infecting you (or others) sluts. Stop with the moral/philosophical high ground


lol that image. she's like 45.


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## SouthernSaxon (Feb 21, 2014)

Veggie said:


> Right, so just be real and call chicks you're afraid of infecting you (or others) sluts. Stop with the moral/philosophical high ground


I've seriously thought about banning immigrants with HIV from entering the country (assuming i was in charge), and requiring everyone from a high risk country to take a test before allowing them to visit. We don't shame people for making bad lifestyle decisions _enough_.

I absolutely approve of what you call "slut shaming".


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## Veggie (May 22, 2011)

Bricolage said:


> lol that image. she's like 45.


This still happens all the time. It's disguised behind many ornate projections of smoke and mirrors, however. (I.E. the feminist who doesn't condone "slut shaming"...unless (LOL! Super bitchy laugh!)...we're talking about *actual* sluts...in which case, they're obviously *sub-human*...and don't even count....haha!)


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

Another one? I want to know why there's a few threads about women liking jerks but not one about why men like bitches.


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## Bricolage (Jul 29, 2012)

Veggie said:


> This still happens all the time. It's disguised behind many ornate projections of smoke and mirrors, however. (I.E. the feminist who doesn't condone "slut shaming"...unless (LOL! Super bitchy laugh!)...we're talking about *actual* sluts...in which case, they're obviously *sub-human*...and don't even count....haha!)


To get more technical, I don't think merely having sex with 30+ dudes makes you a slut. A slut to my mind is a girl, perhaps overweight, with low self-esteem who fucks dudes to pump her internal state up but basically still feels worthless and empty. There's an equivalent dude counterpart but guys have to keep their looks up to pull in girls consistently, whereas girls don't really have to care about their appearances as much to get laid consistently. Most guys would thrust anything moist and semi-sentient.


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## Kyandigaru (Mar 11, 2012)

NK said:


> Another one? I want to know why there's a few threads about women liking jerks but not one about why men like bitches.


if this were true we'd both be married or engaged.
@Veggie stop feeding the troll LMA


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## Veggie (May 22, 2011)

SouthernSaxon said:


> We don't shame people for making bad lifestyle decisions _enough_.
> 
> I absolutely approve of what you call "slut shaming".


Men, no. Women? PLENTY 

I'm not saying we should run around calling promiscuous women sluts. I'm saying we should inspect how this is being done. Lots and lots of hypocrites running amuck. (Also - if we're on an even playing field - yea, just say it, if that's how you really feel).


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## Veggie (May 22, 2011)

Bricolage said:


> To get more technical, I don't think merely having sex with 30+ dudes makes you a slut. A slut to my mind is a girl, perhaps overweight, will low self-esteem who fucks dudes to pump her internal state up but basically still feels worthless and empty. There's an equivalent dude counterpart but guys have to keep their looks up to pull in girls consistently, whereas girls don't really have to care about their appearances as much to get laid consistently. Most guys would thrust anything moist and semi-sentient.


I will be totally honest in saying that I appreciate your honesty in that.


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## Bricolage (Jul 29, 2012)

:shocked:


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## Veggie (May 22, 2011)

Kyandigaru said:


> if this were true we'd both be married or engaged.
> @Veggie stop feeding the troll LMA


If I don't feed trolls how will I play with them 

They'd all die and life would less interesting


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## Bricolage (Jul 29, 2012)

Veggie said:


> I will be totally honest in saying that I appreciate your honesty in that.


I have been around real sluts (overweight, low-self esteem etc.) and it ain't pretty.


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## SouthernSaxon (Feb 21, 2014)

Veggie said:


> This still happens all the time. It's disguised behind many ornate projections of smoke and mirrors, however. (I.E. the feminist who doesn't condone "slut shaming"...unless (LOL! Super bitchy laugh!)...we're talking about *actual* sluts...in which case, they're obviously *sub-human*...and don't even count....haha!)


Women are the gatekeepers of sexual morality. When women stopped preforming the traditional feminine functions that men found attractive, we lost the motivation to commit, and the availability of easy sex was another factor. A woman who complains about "sluts" but doesn't care for relationships herself is also contributing to the problem. 

Feminist hatred of sluts is ironic as it was feminism that enabled the slutty, carefree lifestyle to be an option for women (or men, for that matter) in the first place.

And I'm not sure what you're really talking about in your most recent comment...?


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## HellCat (Jan 17, 2013)

This entire thread is just disturbing and I especially enjoy the logic of the guy who explains "you aren't really a slut if you are attractive or have a self confidence behind your actions" Did porn teach you that one? What people do with their bodies is their business. 

I see two young women drinking, slightly sunburned and acting stupid, most likely on spring break, not a font of Stds. I am more wary of the women who call themselves girls, still wear white lingerie and pretend to be offended or confused by a dirty joke. If you've done ANYTHING sexual, you're not innocent. Nobody is fooled except that guy who wants to believe hes the best you've ever had. The grown up little princess sugary sensitive emotional act pisses me off more than any "skanky" girls. I would take someone open about who they are as a friend over someone that self delusional any day. 




Also not all women who naturally look like soul consuming whores are, get really sick of hearing that one. 

For the record before the troglodytes start in, not a soul consuming whore, not overweight, no low self esteem here. 

I am truly sorry for you actually nice men who have had their souls eaten. But judging women that way is a disservice to yourself as well as them.


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## Veggie (May 22, 2011)

LeoCat said:


> This entire thread is just disturbing and I especially enjoy the logic of the guy who explains "you aren't really a slut if you are attractive or have a self confidence behind your actions" Did porn teach you that one? What people do with their bodies is their business.


It's disturbing because people are telling the truth - which is disturbing. I appreciated the *honesty* behind the statement, not the statement itself. However, there is some validity to it. I think that women are doing each other a great disservice by not being more honest. When you commit to someone, you are exposing yourself to *a lot* of risk. Financially, sexually, emotionally. I think that the point was that staying in shape can show a sense of pride and self respect (not just the declaration, but the action of it), and that self-confidence is easier to trust in a person than a lack of it (of course, because you're more in control of your thoughts and actions). 

That being said - I feel for these girls who are just having fun on spring break (I've BEEN this girl). A lot of my posts are sarcastic, because it downright disgusts me how they're treated as sub-human. Dudes don't act like gentlemen anymore, for the most part. So, girls have fun. Unfortunately, that nasty little trust component still exists in making a decision to commit. I think a little antiquated wisdom of yesteryear is helpful to an extent, honestly. (People would just rip the Band-Aid off - or, do what you want to do - but know the repercussions and be prepared to work with and/or around them). 



LeoCat said:


> I am more wary of the women who call themselves girls, still wear white lingerie and pretend to be offended or confused by a dirty joke...The grown up little princess sugary sensitive emotional act pisses me off more than any "skanky" girls. I would take someone open about who they are as a friend over someone that self delusional any day.


I completely agree with you. Often that act parades behind, not a little princess though, but a strong, empowered, altruistic (yeaaaa....), intelligent, "self-respecting" woman. Fucking sick of it.



LeoCat said:


> Also not all women who naturally look like soul consuming whores are, get really sick of hearing that one...I am truly sorry for you actually nice men who have had their souls eaten. But judging women that way is a disservice to yourself as well as them.


A lot of them have. It's not a disservice to them, either, necessarily. I've talked to guys who had their women almost destroy their lives. I understand the trust issues. Yes though, it's still an annoying stereotype. That's why I appreciate the truthful analytical "trolls" who don't just throw women into "healthy" or "unhealthy" categories (OR - I love you all and I'd fuck any of you who would let me!), and are more willing to explore cause and effect, society's impact, etc.


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## Stelmaria (Sep 30, 2011)

Bricolage said:


> I actually think some women feel like trash and that's why they like jerks, because jerks treat them how they feel. Also, a "jerk" tends to be less needy and clingy (maybe more confident?) than a "nice" guy. The sheer number of women with "jerks" tells me that this group of guys intrinsically possesses qualities large swathes of women find attractive. When women around the world stop being with jerks, then I'll concede jerks don't offer women anything and that women aren't attracted to jerks.












Yeah, I give up...


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## aendern (Dec 28, 2013)

I think it is important to note that women only think they're jerks _after the relationship ends_, at which point everyone views their ex negatively.


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