# 'tis between ENTP and ENFP...



## Vaka (Feb 26, 2010)

I know, I've rethought my type waaaaay too many times now, but I'm really thinking that I may be an ENTP. I think that when I first came here, I mainly shaped my personality to the ENFP stereotypes. Although, I can relate to both ENTP and ENFP a little. I know for fucking sure that Ne is my dominant function.
I want to do this from a clean perspective. And I don't want people to just comment and tell me something like, "you're totally an ENFP, how the hell are you doubting your type?!?" 
No...I want real answers, people!

In the past, I could relate much more to ENFPs, but right now I feel like I could relate more to ENTPs. It also seems as if the 'feeler' in me could be Fe. I use tact when speaking with people and I am careful not to hurt peoples' feelings. Although I do have a part of me that more-so appreciates honesty and straight-forwardness. But if you're particularly skilled, you should be able to be honest while keeping people from getting angry or somethin' lmao.

I somewhat get Fe and Te, and I can see a little bit of both in myself. Their cousins, Fi and Ti, are elusive creatures that transcend my level of understanding. I had assumed, based on some descriptions, that I use Fi, but to be honest, I don't get the concept of analyzing things based on 'values'. And I don't get how someone can make a decision based on feelings, anyway. But anyone can enlighten me on what that really means. Maybe I do that and I just don't realize it. I have a hard time looking inside myself sometimes :crazy:

I may sound like an ignoramus with this paragraph, but it's worth it. I feel passionate about certain things such as music and art and it's something that I can't really explain in words. Is that more of a feeler thing or perhaps an Fi thing? Or is there really no connection at all?

I don't know what else to say as it seems that a lot of traits could be shared, but their motivation would be where the difference is. I've read a lot about MBTI and Jungian functions and whatnot, but all it does is make me question more...

I think that if I am an ENTP, I use my Fe pretty well. And if I'm an ENFP, I use my Te pretty well. I don't really know for sure 
...anyone have any insight?


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## Paradigm (Feb 16, 2010)

My Fi generally shows itself by being quiet and conflict-avoidant until something comes up to set it off. For example, I was meeting my cousin's fiance and hadn't really said anything until he said something against my values (revolving around gender roles). It was only then that I said more than five words in one sentence and all of it arguing against his point. Fi also drives me to work for something I believe in, like volunteering at a hospital. I'm not sure how it would work for an extrovert... I would imagine it would cause you to want to make a change using all of the ideas Ne conjures up and give you more of a focus and knowledge of self.

ENTPs are more the type to argue either because the other person is being illogical/stupid or for the sake of arguing. Being passionate about something isn't "just" for Feelers. ENTPs can totally be passionate, often getting "caught up" in things until they lose interest.


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## Vaka (Feb 26, 2010)

I have ethical values and all that stuff, but I don't know how much importance they really take in my life is all.
I usually won't argue just for the sake of arguing. Most of the time I'll only argue with someone if I think they're wrong or yeah...stupid...or, misinformed.
It seems like someone with Fe would also be driven to volunteer, perhaps. 
I've considered volunteering with children. I'm not driven for change or for using my Ne with things that have to do with values or ethics or people.

I didn't mean passion as in emotion, I meant it more in the...never mind, I can't really find the word :bored:
I'm hoping that maybe some ENFPs can answer also xD

Also, how do you make a decision based on feeling? lol


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## Paradigm (Feb 16, 2010)

Nyx said:


> I have ethical values and all that stuff, but I don't know how much importance they really take in my life is all.
> I usually won't argue just for the sake of arguing, but I'm not against it. Most of the time I'll only argue with someone if I think they're wrong or yeah...stupid...or, misinformed.
> It seems like someone with Fe would also be driven to volunteer, perhaps.
> I've considered volunteering with children. But I don't think my Ne works with Fi like that. I'm not driven for change or for using my Ne with things that have to do with values or ethics or people.
> ...


Well, the difference between Fi values and Fe ethics is that Fe generally adheres to what society says is right. Fi, on the other hand, adheres to what _you_ think is right. Imagine society says, "Marriage should be arranged." If one was a strong Fe user, one wouldn't imagine going against an arranged marriage. But if one was a strong Fi user, they may believe this is wrong and marry anyone they want.

Fe would be the type to volunteer, but I would guess an ENTP would do it more for the learning experience rather than merely helping people. I think I read that Fe in ENTPs work more as a manipulative tool: they can be charming, friendly, kind if they want something from you. Also, it'll make them a little protective of people... so don't piss them off.

I found this thread on Google. Hopefully it'll help a bit.

Hopefully a true ENTP will post and give you insight as to what they're like :crazy: Much more effective than me trying to guess their motivations.

EDIT:
Oops, I forgot to answer your last question! Let's see, how do I make a decision? I'm too Sixish to solely rely on how I feel about something. I tend to weigh all the options, wonder which would be better, which is expected (sounds Fe, but for me it's more about fear of rejection). First, though, I decide if it's against something I believe. Say I wanted to turn on the air conditioning. I don't like A/C... I see it as something most of America uses far too much for no reason other than pure comfort. This is something I feel strongly about. So, if I wanted to turn it on, I would ask myself several questions. Is it hot enough? Are fans and few clothes not enough? Am I practically having a heatstroke, or am I just uncomfortable? How is my breathing (I have health problems), is it compromised any from the heat/humidity? Has it been a prolonged heat wave, like more than three days? How long would I need to have it on... could I just turn it off in a few hours?

I know, I think far too much... -_-


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## Vaka (Feb 26, 2010)

Descriptions of ENTPs that I've read say that they are the most reluctant of all types to do things because that's the way they've always been done. I would think that their Ti would play a part.

My desire to volunteer with children really has less to do with ethics than with the fact that I actually have a bit of a nurturing soul in me haha :blushed:

...Dammit...That thread is freaking long!! But I'm gonna read it and make another post here, thanks :happy:
PS: It's probably gonna take me a while to read that whole thing...


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## Psilo (Apr 29, 2009)

ENFPs express Fi differently than INFPs, and Te differently than a TJ. 

Fe in ENTP, in my experience, comes out in two ways. Either they have a silver tongue and can speak perfectly and properly however the situation calls for. They chameleon very well into any scenario and, better or worse, can be extremely persuasive. Otherwise, it comes out by testing reactions in people. ENTPs seem to learn better by throwing their ideas and studyingthe reaction they get. 

ENFPs tend to use Te by becoming very controlling of situations and demanding of people. Sorry, I didn't mean to phrase that harshly and as above can be for better or worse. NeFi determines the course, and Te will make it happen hell or high water. 

I've heard ENFPs describe Fi as where they go when they need answers. Ne, as with any extraverted function, will keep going from topic to topic, idea to idea. Fi serves as a compass, so to speak, to keep Ne pointed in the correct direction. Fi pointing towards what you want and what you consider to be good and right. Ti reigns Ne by pointing to what makes sense. 

I have an ENFP sister, and a coworker who was ENTP. Just a quick anecdote, the ENTP chose his career based on the availability of work after college and the amount of pay the job offered. He likes his work, but he's the kind of person who finds learning most anything new exciting. His passion is second to what makes sense for a career choice. 

My sister, on the other hand, took her career choice because she loves the work she does. She struggles with finaces, but the thought of having a job that feels like a job is suffocating. She's looking for the textbook Fi authenticity by doing what she thinks she's best at, and something she is passionate about. 

Obviously, that's not the only end result of either Fi or Ti, just trying to illustrate the thought processes that led them there. As usual anecdote, grain of salt, etc etc.



> Well, the difference between Fi values and Fe ethics is that Fe generally adheres to what society says is right. Fi, on the other hand, adheres to what you think is right. Imagine society says, "Marriage should be arranged." If one was a strong Fe user, one wouldn't imagine going against an arranged marriage. But if one was a strong Fi user, they may believe this is wrong and marry anyone they want.


I need to make a distinction. Fe is not about upholding societal values. Fe is about judging based on how people work together. In an ideal sense, Fe would want to make the external interactions of people run smootly as to make the people feel better themselves. Contrast with ideal Fi in which the goal is to make the individual feel better, so the interactions between everyone run more smootly. They both are harmonizing and empathizing judging funtions, but in converse directions.


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## koala07 (May 12, 2010)

Well, I am an ENFP and my best friend, ex boyfriend and sister are all ENTPs..i know I wonder myself why I am so attracted to this type! I think the major difference is definitely, not to simplify it too much, but how we make decisions for sure, simple as that. I always make sure to use extreme tact with what I say and take others feelings into account. For instance, if one would ask me they looked good in what they were wearing i would say something like, "Hmm I really like the outfit, but perhaps this or that will look even better...blah blah blah" However, my sister does not see how she should alter the content to cater to someones feelings, she argues that what we are saying is essentially the same so why say the bs? But I feel that even if we both try to say the same thing, being "right" or being bluntly correct is not always necessary when communicating with people. Others have insecurities or are sensitive and I take this into account, while ENTPs naturally do not.
Also, if some one messes with my friend or does something to hurt them, I become VERY protective. If I see that person, maybe I wont say something but I WILL NOT go and be openly nice to them. If I see wrongdoing done, and especially to my friend, I believe in loyalty and I back my friend up 100%. However, my bf, sis, and bff will act casual and fine, and do not see why they would should act differently bc the other person did nothing to them personally...so rational!!!
So sorry for the rant, but I notice people interpreting and analyzing these F versus T functions, but its very apparent in just everyday decisions and especially when communicating with other people. Sometimes it is frustrating if there is a conflict between me and them, but it is very refreshing to hear their perspective when I am in a conflict or dealing with an interpersonal issue with someone else; i always find myself saying "wow, i would never have thought they were acting that way...etc" So, they keep me grounded in a sense, because we have lots of fun, and debate issues, and love spontaneity and are not judgmental, but when I begin to make wrong assumptions and my idealism and imaginations get the best of me they offer me some sound, realistic, logical advice. On the other side of the spectrum, they appreciate me because their harsh words and blunt actions can offend people, and i offer good advice on how to approach people and word things better in order to get their point across effectively so another person will see their view without being offended.


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## Vaka (Feb 26, 2010)

NOTE: I'm horrible with introspection. I've noticed that about myself. And I really don't enjoy it, at all...
So I don't really know how good my posts are gonna be...



> ENFPs tend to use Te by becoming very controlling of situations and demanding of people. Sorry, I didn't mean to phrase that harshly and as above can be for better or worse. NeFi determines the course, and Te will make it happen hell or high water.


Oh, I don't care about 'harsh phrasing' hehe. I can relate to that, though. That's were the enneagram 8 in me comes from, partly.


> I've heard ENFPs describe Fi as where they go when they need answers. Ne, as with any extraverted function, will keep going from topic to topic, idea to idea. Fi serves as a compass, so to speak, to keep Ne pointed in the correct direction. Fi pointing towards what you want and what you consider to be good and right. Ti reigns Ne by pointing to what makes sense.


My Ne just goes from topic to topic, I have a hard time keeping it from doing so...
If I keep it invested in something, it's just because I find that thing interesting enough.




> I have an ENFP sister, and a coworker who was ENTP. Just a quick anecdote, the ENTP chose his career based on the availability of work after college and the amount of pay the job offered. He likes his work, but he's the kind of person who finds learning most anything new exciting. His passion is second to what makes sense for a career choice.
> 
> My sister, on the other hand, took her career choice because she loves the work she does. She struggles with finaces, but the thought of having a job that feels like a job is suffocating. She's looking for the textbook Fi authenticity by doing what she thinks she's best at, and something she is passionate about.


I would pay attention to both of those factors. What I think I would get the most out of, and how smart it actually is. That's why I'm not really planning on doing art or music as a career anymore. Anyway, it's not like I can't still do those even if I do something else as a career. And besides, my ideal career would most likely not be one of those...


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## Tacos (May 10, 2010)

deep inside your chin (hearts are overrated) do you feel like a t or a f ?
(serious clean buisness office question)

like is there a difference between what you are and what you would like to be or something? 

I'm saying that because I've been
Sorry if this post is absolutely not helpful at all. :dry:

I'm saying that cuz I've been wondering the same thing, however it did seem easier to be ENTP so I was wondering maybe I'm like that too but finally nope I'm just some oversensitive person. 

You don't really seem to me like a ENTP, however most of the ENTP I know are guys and anyways its not like i know you a lot xD


edit: i just realized i put a lot of ''I'' in this post and now i feel self-centered lol


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## Vaka (Feb 26, 2010)

koala07 said:


> I think the major difference is definitely, not to simplify it too much, but how we make decisions for sure, simple as that. I always make sure to use extreme tact with what I say and take others feelings into account. For instance, if one would ask me they looked good in what they were wearing i would say something like, "Hmm I really like the outfit, but perhaps this or that will look even better...blah blah blah" However, my sister does not see how she should alter the content to cater to someones feelings, she argues that what we are saying is essentially the same so why say the bs? But I feel that even if we both try to say the same thing, being "right" or being bluntly correct is not always necessary when communicating with people. Others have insecurities or are sensitive and I take this into account, while ENTPs naturally do not.


I'm more prone to using tact, but I'll be the first to admit that it seems like it's usually for more selfish reasons...Such as, I don't want to cause friction or something or get anyone upset. But if it's with my family members, then yeah, I don't want to hurt their feelings hehe



> Also, if some one messes with my friend or does something to hurt them, I become VERY protective. If I see that person, maybe I wont say something but I WILL NOT go and be openly nice to them. If I see wrongdoing done, and especially to my friend, I believe in loyalty and I back my friend up 100%. However, my bf, sis, and bff will act casual and fine, and do not see why they would should act differently bc the other person did nothing to them personally...so rational!!!


That, I'm not sure about...
It really depends on the exact situation. I have no problem confronting people if I think that they weren't really being just, or something. I can name one situation: This guy was harassing my sister and I really wanted to confront him. My sister stopped me, for some reason. I don't really think that was rational since she didn't want him to keep bothering her and confronting him was the only way to stop it xD
Another situation: My next door neighbor said something that really made my mom sad or embarrassed...it made her cry and that really hurt me also. I didn't really get why it made her that unhappy, but it hurt me and I wanted to confront the neighbor :crying:




> deep inside your chin (hearts are overrated) do you feel like a t or a f ?
> (serious clean buisness office question)


I dunno!! In the past, I'd certainly say I was much more of a feeler, but I have no idea...


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## Coco (Jun 17, 2010)

You're a ENFP doubting about being ENTP who feels like a INTP but not a INFP.
That's cool :O 

Maybe you're a ENFP who developped her T side too and all that  

ENTP girls tend to be more vulgar and obsessed by sex than you xD
Or maybe are you hiding all that stuff from me because you know that I'm your mommy ? :mellow:

but you're not enfp cause enfps like spongebob


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## Vaka (Feb 26, 2010)

That's what I'm trying to figure out lol
I probably am an ENFP with a developed Te, but I dunno...

If you hang around more on these boards, you'll see how horny I am :happy:



> but you're not enfp cause enfps like spongebob


All I hear when I think 'Spongebob' is "I'M READY! I'M READY!! I'M READY!!! I'M READY!!!!"
...No, you're not ready. I will shoot you!!


I know that thread that was linked talks about Fe, but I'm just putting this out there: One thing that has made me debate whether I'm an ENTP is that I'm not really expressive with my emotions and I have a hard time expressing them to people. I also can't handle it when other people get too emotional. But this is something that's been the fact lately more than in the past. I've heard that ENFPs generally 'wear their hearts on their sleeves'.


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## spifffo (Jan 21, 2010)

"Making decisions using feelings" means making decisions taking into account individual, humanistic elements. I get the sense that some "thinkers" see "feelers" as these impulse-driven emotional basketcases that slow down the system for everyone else--but it seems to me that "feelers" are simply less likely to emphasize the quantitative and more likely to emphasize the qualitative elements of a situation...and "the system" absolutely needs both.

I think that dominant Ne is enough to draw anyone toward art, regardless of F or T...it seems to me that art is a way to make sense of all the jumbled up ideas we take in constantly, to make something real and valuable so we don't get lost in the flux. What are you trying to express with your art--emotions, individuality, the human spirit (Fi) or more philosophical, political, etc. ideas (Ti)?

It may also be helpful to try to guess your tertiary function, especially when you're less healthy--at your worst, are you more prone toward controlling your environment (Te) or the people in your environment (Fe)?


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## Vaka (Feb 26, 2010)

> It may also be helpful to try to guess your tertiary function, especially when you're less healthy--at your worst, are you more prone toward controlling your environment (Te) or the people in your environment (Fe)?


When I'm less healthy, I'm more likely to just isolate myself from people altogether. 
How would those manifest themselves, though? At my worst, I try to keep people away from me by being controlling with them or by lashing out at them...I dunno...
I've had OCD tendencies in the past, I dunno if that would go with 'controlling the environment'...


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## Coco (Jun 17, 2010)

Nyx said:


> When I'm less healthy, I'm more likely to just isolate myself from people altogether.


I used to do that too...

ENTP would be more starting to be agressive to everyone and not giving a banana about others and all...
Unless the ENTP I know just a jerk lol. I'm not an expert in ENTPs x


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## Vaka (Feb 26, 2010)

> ENTP would be more starting to be agressive to everyone and not giving a banana about others and all...


I do that too, but I don't know if it has anything to do with my type...
If I'm stressed out, I'll pretend that I don't care about anything and if anyone tries to talk to me, I'll push them away. I try to keep them away so that I don't have to talk about anything...
I've said some pretty harsh things when I've been EXTREMELY stressed out lol


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## xrevolutionx (Apr 10, 2010)

Comparing simply T and F can be a challenge since most people do use both. It's just that we rely on one more than the other. What is more concrete is our temperaments. So let's re-examine what your temperament might be: NT vs NF. 

One of the NT's central values is competence and the drive to excel at whatever they do. They are on a quest for knowledge and are motivated by challenges. NFs see life as a journey of self discovery, a search for meaning. NFs also place a high value on uniqueness and originality and it is very important for them to feel connected with others.

It's not a complete description so you'll have to look into the two temperaments in depth. Hopefully you'll be able to identify with one more than the other.


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## ThinkerNinja (Mar 21, 2010)

You're an ENFP.


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## Vaka (Feb 26, 2010)

ThinkerNinja said:


> You're an ENFP.


But why do you say that?

Note: It doesn't really help much to say what type you think I am without saying why...

By the way, I am very tactful with my words and I don't want to hurt peoples' feelings, but couldn't that be either Fe or Fi?


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## The Great One (Apr 19, 2010)

Nyx said:


> I have ethical values and all that stuff, but I don't know how much importance they really take in my life is all.
> I usually won't argue just for the sake of arguing. Most of the time I'll only argue with someone if I think they're wrong or yeah...stupid...or, misinformed.
> It seems like someone with Fe would also be driven to volunteer, perhaps.
> I've considered volunteering with children. I'm not driven for change or for using my Ne with things that have to do with values or ethics or people.
> ...


Fi in ENFP's is kind of hard to explain. However, usually most Fi users find it very easy to express their emotions, and are eager to express them. You on the other hand, I've read in several threads, don't seem to readily express your emotions at all nor do you feel the need to express them at all. Also, Fi users often get offended easily at others comments. You on the other hand do not seem to take what others say personally at all. You also seem to think with a lot of logic instead of emotion. Although you may claim that you use a lot of Fi, I think that your Ti beats the Fi any day.



Nyx said:


> NOTE: I'm horrible with introspection. I've noticed that about myself. And I really don't enjoy it, at all...
> So I don't really know how good my posts are gonna be...
> 
> Oh, *I don't care about 'harsh phrasing' hehe. I can relate to that, though. That's were the enneagram 8 in me comes from, partly.*
> ...


This absolutely wreaks of Ti and not Fi. Also, you don't seem to be an extrovert either. Hell, I once heard a guy commenting on your page that "You have to stop being by yourself so much. You have to be around people." This does not sound like an extrovert at all. You seem prefer your own company to other people's. This is a clear sign of an introvert. 

In conclusion, you use a lot of Ne and Ti and I don't really know you in person, and haven't really seen it much in you, but you claim that you use a lot of Fi. So I will believe you. However, I believe you are an INTP.


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## Liontiger (Jun 2, 2009)

agokcen said:


> While both Fi and Ti users are generally introspective by nature, in my experience, the introspection of Ti users tends to be more conscious than that of Fi users. You're much more introspective than you give yourself credit for, but you have a difficult time seeing it -- very Fi. You just naturally know what's important to you and know your priorities...even if those priorities change from time to time. Whatever you think of yourself, you come off as someone who knows what she wants better than most people.


This. It took me a long time to figure out what I stand for and what's important to me. Heck, it didn't even occur to me that it might be an important thing to think about. I agree that those who come upon this naturally would be more Fi than Ti.



energeticelephant said:


> I, myself, sometimes wonder if I'm not an ENTP. Sometimes I can be really warm and enthusiastic, cheerful and people-centred and other times I can be cold, kind of mean, insensitive and totally not in tune with my emotions or other's. The latter usually happens when I'm feeling stifled, unstimulated and/or depressed. I dunno if you can relate to any of those conditions. Usually I will become withdrawn, but not introspective. I don't want to touch my emotions, because I guess I'm a little afraid of what will come out if I do. Other people's emotions become annoying and I've been known to brush them away with a "oh come on, get over it already." I can be a real bitch...something I'm certainly not proud of. :mellow:


I think stress behavior can actually be a good indicator of type. For example, you say that you become cold, mean, and out of tune with other's emotions. This would be a negative form of Te. ENTPs might become unusually sensitive to criticism/perceived opposition, attack in a way that causes emotional pain, and be passive aggressive. This is more negative Fe. You project your opposite judging function, making it seem as though you're a thinker when you're a feeler and vice versa.


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## Vaka (Feb 26, 2010)

*...no small task for a girl with ADD...*

Long ass, peace-breaking post FTW!

And someone said I should check out the descriptions for NTs and NFs...
Apparently NTs are into knowledge and problem-solving which I can relate to more than some of the stuff in the NF description, because I don't really consider myself to be that empathetic or sympathetic of a person...I mean, I'm not horrible, but I'm no saint either lol



Lightning said:


> I also have to be aware of wishful thinking, for my part :wink:


I'm growing more and more fond of you!




> I think Ti can actually be mistaken for Fi, at times. Ti focuses on principles, and one might be insistent on those principles. For example, I'm opposed to stealing because it throws the system of commerce out of whack and undermines people's hard work. This may seem like a moral belief on my part, but it's not. It's a principle. When I feel my principles are being violated, I can be quite testy. Again, this is not necessarily the morally-focused Fi.


I feel like I place less importance on values than most ENFPs seem to...I don't think that I'd really get offended if someone went against any values I might have. I also don't see myself as the kind of person who holds grudges against people like xrevolutionx mentioned...



> A pretty good distinction between Fi and Fe is that Fi is ego-centric and Fe is directed outward. Fi seeks inner harmony primarily whereas Fe seeks outer harmony. At its best, Fe is highly attentive to the needs of others and creates a peaceful environment. For ENTPs, this tends to apply only to people we care for. It can also be used to manipulate others. This sounds like a bad thing and it can be, but it's something we use to incur favor and get people to like us. Often times, it's subconsciously changing the way we interact with others, like a chameleon.


The concept of inner harmony confuses Nyx...
If I'm being honest, I do manipulate people...Perhaps to get a certain response from them or to get them to do something. Or to mask my true feelings to keep people happy. I lie a lot to people just make things go smoothly. I can relate to other things I've read about Fe such as checking for appropriateness or gauging how I might be coming off to people. Also, I know how to make people feel comfortable...
I actually think I might focus more on outer harmony than on inner harmony, and I think that that's beyond a value or something. This is what has confused me about Fi vs. Fe in myself.



> The ENTP brand of logic is Ti, and the ENFP brand is Te. Ti looks at things holistically, wanting to consider the entire system/situation to determine if something is valid. Te wants evidence; the more the better. Ti relies on a personal sense of logic that does not always make sense to other people. The only evidence we need is if it "makes sense" to us. Te is also more likely to impose thoughts on others, whereas Ti will only bring it up if it's important.


Maybe I just don't understand it fully, but I'd lean more on Ti...



> Perhaps you could flutter around the ENTP forum for a while. See if it fits.


I probably am gonna do that, if not for this, then just because I like ENTPs :happy:




agokcen said:


> It's a fairly well-known phenomenon that ENFPs' Fi-Te can appear very much like Ti.


I get what you're saying. I think it's possible that my first instinct comes from Fi but that I check things with Te...or something.



> While both Fi and Ti users are generally introspective by nature, in my experience, the introspection of Ti users tends to be more conscious than that of Fi users. You're much more introspective than you give yourself credit for, but you have a difficult time seeing it -- very Fi. You just naturally know what's important to you and know your priorities...even if those priorities change from time to time. Whatever you think of yourself, you come off as someone who knows what she wants better than most people.


Why thank you :happy:
Though I've never really thought of myself in that way xD



> I think you fall into Arioche's category -- very Thinker-y ENFPs. You and your silly Te! :happy:


roud:



IrukandjiJellyGel said:


> And as for our encounters, they never happened.


...denial, denial...



Love Obsessed said:


> > Introverted Feeling
> > Auxiliary feeling is nonverbally implied more often than it is openly expressed. When expressed, this logic has an aura of romance and purity that may seem out of place in this flawed, imperfect world. In its own defense, feeling judgement frequently and fleetly gives way to humor. ENFPs who publicize their feelings too often may put off some of the crowd of friends they naturally attract.


I dunno, I don't really hang out with people enough to be able to figure that one out :mellow:
When I said I suspected myself of being introverted, it was for some very good reasons...


> By the way, only you can determined your type but it's good to ask for help. But you could be developing your Te function- earlier.


I'm trying to get some input and clarification. I don't really want anyone to make the decision for me...that don't fly with me, actually lol



energeticelephant said:


> I, myself, sometimes wonder if I'm not an ENTP. Sometimes I can be really warm and enthusiastic, cheerful and people-centred and other times I can be cold, kind of mean, insensitive and totally not in tune with my emotions or other's. The latter usually happens when I'm feeling stifled, unstimulated and/or depressed. I dunno if you can relate to any of those conditions. Usually I will become withdrawn, but not introspective. I don't want to touch my emotions, because I guess I'm a little afraid of what will come out if I do. Other people's emotions become annoying and I've been known to brush them away with a "oh come on, get over it already." I can be a real bitch...something I'm certainly not proud of. :mellow:


I'm not really sure if I'm like that exactly...


> I should also mention that I love to do math. It feels so satisfying. I also have a good head for a lot of scientific stuff. I'm not overly sensitive. I can brush off many insults easily (and others not so easily). It all depends.


Yep! I love math, expecially algebra...and long dvision, I'm not sure why.
I really loved the parts of chemistry class that delt with math, and surpsingly, I always did better than most people with those things...But I was a slacker, so I didn't really do so well over-all lmao
My reaction to insults really varies...My mom, for instance, seems to take it personally if some stranger says something to her. I'd just brush that off. If someone I care about says something to me, then I'd take it to heart. 



Love Obsessed said:


> I was thinking her enneagram could be one of the reason.


I'm thinking that my tri-type is probably 6w7-8w9-4w5...I'm a counterphobic and 'sexual' 6. Figuring out whether or not I really have 8 in my tri-type was a bitch considering counterphobic sixes can have the same traits as eights and sexual sixes like to appear powerful. Well this isn't really the place for enneagram lol



lirulin said:


> Fi can be about creating harmony on the outside if the values are right. INFPs with dominant Fi, are very much about that in their way - because it is "right" to be nice to people and show sensitivity to their emotions. INTJs, who use Fi, will care less about it, because it is "right" to be honest to people and not lie, showing respect for their intelligence.


 So they do things because it's the right thing to do but not because they really care?



> you might have it more as obvious gut feeling kind of thing - these things are ok, and these are not. And if the source of these ideas is not whether other people will be upset, or whether, generally speaking, other people usually are upset, but instead, whether you think they_ should_ be upset, then that is likely Fi.


I'd usually think more about if something will make people upset rather than if it should make people upset.



Lightning said:


> I think stress behavior can actually be a good indicator of type. For example, you say that you become cold, mean, and out of tune with other's emotions. This would be a negative form of Te. ENTPs might become unusually sensitive to criticism/perceived opposition, attack in a way that causes emotional pain, and be passive aggressive. This is more negative Fe. You project your opposite judging function, making it seem as though you're a thinker when you're a feeler and vice versa.


When I'm stressed out I am kinda cold in that I'll say things that might hurt people emotionally, and I'll be aware of that too. It's not really that I'm out of touch with their emotions or mine, per se. I don't really want to think about anything. Even if people try to help, I'll probably shut them out.


So I might be stuck on this team:


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## lirulin (Apr 16, 2010)

Nyx said:


> So they do things because it's the right thing to do but not because they really care?.


Both. They what they think is the right thing to do, because they really care. I think of it as treating people right, the way they deserve, as well as they deserve, whether they like it or not. :crazy: A feeler type would have more caring conflated in it given the different values - treating someone the way they like and deserve, because it is right to do so with someone you care about, kind of thing. But the way the caring is expressed has to be defined by or contained within the values. FP will compromise more than a J, but the sense that this is a good way of being, instead of solely emotional expression or emotional connection/interaction is there. But ENFPs are not lacking in emotional expression either. I think also Fi seems to manifest as a concern for individuality and uniqueness in many of them? Also in being private and in a way taking some relationships more personally than others. It's about inner harmony of the other person, so you care about their feelings/opinions/impact on you - but only if you care about _them_. Strangers are less likely to disturb since they affect outer harmony mostly? At least in some ways, some personal judgements. practical inconvenience is different. Fe will prioritize people too, but tend to be more aware of self-presentation (as a skill esp in ENTPs) and dislike incongruous/negative judgements on it a bit more, I think, regardless of the source.



Nyx said:


> I'd usually think more about if something will make people upset rather than if it should make people upset.


It's a more efficient consideration in normal interactionin terms of strategy. I think the should mostly comes up when people push it - it's not like you have a predetermined idea of how people are supposed to feel that you always draw upon, which would be weird, it's more that you have a sense that there's only so far you'll go before it's their own fault for overreacting. A line is drawn, kinda thing, and you notice if - and only if - people step over it. Unless you have a penchant for systematizing and mapping things out and want to figure out the whole system, that is...it's not doctrinaire so much as "this is bending over backwards for feelings, and this is tact." A more personal reference point - how I feel I should be expected/required to act, this is what is reasonable, - or maybe this is how I _feel I want_ to act in an F, how one feels ok acting, how one feels true to oneself and authentic - versus Fe, which would be more outwards, reacting to the other person's feelings/reaction, and probably more in the moment.


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## Vaka (Feb 26, 2010)

lirulin said:


> Both. They what they think is the right thing to do, because they really care. I think of it as treating people right, the way they deserve, as well as they deserve, whether they like it or not. :crazy: A feeler type would have more caring conflated in it given the different values - treating someone the way they like and deserve, because it is right to do so with someone you care about, kind of thing. But the way the caring is expressed has to be defined by or contained within the values.


Well I might care about someone, but I usually don't really express it very well...I don't really think I do things exactly like that, though. But ENFPs and INFPs are pretty different in quite a few ways...



> It's about inner harmony of the other person, so you care about their feelings/opinions/impact on you - but only if you care about _them_. Strangers are less likely to disturb since they affect outer harmony mostly?


First of all, if I don't really know the person, then they can't really have an accurate idea of who I am, anyway. Second of all, I care about the impact I have on people who _I_ care about or respect...




> it's more that you have a sense that there's only so far you'll go before it's their own fault for overreacting. A line is drawn, kinda thing, and you notice if - and only if - people step over it. Unless you have a penchant for systematizing and mapping things out and want to figure out the whole system, that is...it's not doctrinaire so much as "this is bending over backwards for feelings, and this is tact." A more personal reference point - how I feel I should be expected/required to act, this is what is reasonable, - or maybe this is how I _feel I want_ to act in an F, how one feels ok acting, how one feels true to oneself and authentic


...I don't really think I can relate to that at all lol


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## The Great One (Apr 19, 2010)

Alistair said:


> Nope. In Jungian terms, extroverted simply means an attitude fixated on the outer world. This may include other people, but it also may not. You're confusing Jungian extroversion with the type of extroversion associated with the Big 5, among other things.


Then why the hell do all the online mbti tests ask a whole bunch of questions about socialability in order to define extroversion?


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## The Great One (Apr 19, 2010)

xrevolutionx said:


> ENTPs are the least extroverted of all extroverts. To a lot of people they may seem like introverts and they definitely handle alone time better and will look for it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Eureka!!! I figured you out Nyx, you are an ENTP! Final answer!


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## Third Engine (Dec 28, 2009)

NatetheGreat said:


> Then why the hell do all the online mbti tests ask a whole bunch of questions about socialability in order to define extroversion?


For the same reason that they measure J/P as how organized/disorganized you are. It's a simplified version of figuring out your type, and thus will not always be accurate. Also, there is (obviously) a correlation between being a "Big 5" extrovert and a Jungian extrovert, but having a middle-low score on Big 5 extroversion does not necessarily make one an introvert in Jungian terms. This is especially a problem for Ne-dominant types, like us.


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## The Great One (Apr 19, 2010)

Alistair said:


> For the same reason that they measure J/P as how organized/disorganized you are. It's a simplified version of figuring out your type, and thus will not always be accurate. Also, there is (obviously) a correlation between being a "Big 5" extrovert and a Jungian extrovert, but having a middle-low score on Big 5 extroversion does not necessarily make one an introvert in Jungian terms. This is especially a problem for Ne-dominant types, like us.


Ok define extrovert in MBTI terms for me compared to Big Five because I know both systems well.


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## Third Engine (Dec 28, 2009)

NatetheGreat said:


> Ok define extrovert in MBTI terms for me compared to Big Five because I know both systems well.


Alright then.

Big 5 extroversion is what I call "traditional" extroversion. How chatty are you? Do you go out of your way to go talk to people? Do you get energized by talking to people? Etc.

Jungian/MBTI extroversion simply means that your dominant function is an extroverted function, based on the outer world and not your inner one. These would be Ne, Se, Te, and Fe, as I'm sure you know, and an extrovert in MBTI would be an Exxx (fill in the blanks). There is a correlation for an extrovert in one system to be an extrovert in the other, but this isn't causative--therefore, you could be barely high extrovert (about 60%) in Big 5 but still be either an introvert or extrovert in MBTI because MBTI is based on functions.


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## The Great One (Apr 19, 2010)

Alistair said:


> Alright then.
> 
> Big 5 extroversion is what I call "traditional" extroversion. How chatty are you? Do you go out of your way to go talk to people? Do you get energized by talking to people? Etc.
> 
> Jungian/MBTI extroversion simply means that your dominant function is an extroverted function, based on the outer world and not your inner one. These would be Ne, Se, Te, and Fe, as I'm sure you know, and an extrovert in MBTI would be an Exxx (fill in the blanks). There is a correlation for an extrovert in one system to be an extrovert in the other, but this isn't causative--therefore, you could be barely high extrovert (about 60%) in Big 5 but still be either an introvert or extrovert in MBTI because MBTI is based on functions.


Ok but what that says to me is that talking to people and social interaction is being in touch with your outer world. So obviously if one was to get an extremely high score on introversion in big 5, there is no way that they could get extroverted in MBTI. However, what actions could be performed in order to connotate someone as being in touch with their "inner world?


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## Third Engine (Dec 28, 2009)

NatetheGreat said:


> Ok but what that says to me is that talking to people and social interaction is being in touch with your outer world.


Social interaction _is _a part of the outer world, but it's _not _limited to people or socializing. Part of the outer world may be ideas or patterns we perceive, among other things.



> So obviously if one was to get an extremely high score on introversion in big 5, there is no way that they could get extroverted in MBTI.


It would be unlikely unless the person is an extremely shy extrovert, which could happen.




> However, what actions could be performed in order to connotate someone as being in touch with their "inner world?


Well, for you, it would be your decision making, since your judgment function is Fi. In other words, making decisions based on your own moral code (probably a horrible definition, but you get my idea). Since your dominant function is Ne, Fi would be your secondary function, thus making you an extrovert. Vice versa for an INFP. This doesn't mean that you're "purely" an extrovert/introvert, though--a healthy person uses both their introverted and extroverted functions. If you start using only your dom and tertiary functions, you begin a "tertiary loop", which is very unhealthy personality wise.


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## Michael (Jul 18, 2010)

*example of T vs F*

Nyx,

Here is a real life example of T vs F. Hope you find it helpful.

A person with the *T*hinking preference and a person with the *F*eeling preference were watching the TV news recently. - (sounds like the beginning of a joke doesn't it?)

The news was reporting that Arizona had just passed a new immigration law, targeting anyone in the state who might look like they were there illegally.

The F Type immediately said that's *"wrong!"* 

The T Type said or thought, "Let me *think* about this." "I don't have enough* facts*. This damn news station never gives me *both sides* of the story, and they never tell me what the* options* were. How can I possibly make the* correct* decision here?"

So the F Type had come to a decision very quickly. The situation was wrong. What Arizona did was wrong. "Wrong" means this went against F Type's values, which are buried deeply and sometimes hard to articulate.

The T Type knew something was not right with this event in Arizona (T Types do have values), but wanted to see more explanations. More data (Thinking was dominant) . What were the alternatives to this immigration bill? The T Type wanted to do a comparison of pros and cons, but the news station was only giving enough data to get people emotional and excited.

So when I hear words like "That's Right" or "That's Wrong" that means Values are in play, and that means F Type.

When I hear words like "That's Correct" or "That Makes Sense" or "What are the options" or "Let me think about this and I'll get back to you" then T thinking is active.


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## Vaka (Feb 26, 2010)

Well I might think in my head that it's wrong, but realistically I'd wonder how much of the correct information I was getting or what was left out...


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## Michael (Jul 18, 2010)

*more T vs F - maybe it's in the gut reaction*



Nyx said:


> Well I might think in my head that it's wrong, but realistically I'd wonder how much of the correct information I was getting or what was left out...



As a "T" I also experience the value judgment of right or wrong at a gut level. This seems to happen first and quite quickly. Then the head kicks in and starts to analyze. But I always remember the first gut instinct what was based on Feeling and values. And I always check my logical / analytical decision against that first reaction.

But I've known other T's that did not seem to be sensitive to the first gut reaction. All they had was the cold hard objective analysis. Boy, were they terrible decisions makers. They were not INTJ's. 

So I guess the question is, which do yo spend more time and energy on? 

I think F types might not get to the analysis part. Maybe they stop at after they have the first gut reaction that says something is right or wrong. The F types I know typically do not spend much time looking for and analyzing data and options.


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## Vaka (Feb 26, 2010)

It depends...
In that situation, I'd probably analyze it a little bit, but then I'd probably stick to not having a full opinion on it...


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## lirulin (Apr 16, 2010)

Nyx said:


> ...I don't really think I can relate to that at all lol


I thought of a tangible example! ENFPs penchant for giving INTJs hugs! Clearly they are not actually responding to our actual needs or wants, though they claim they are (sillies). They are expressing their own idea of affection, not being responsive. Much more Fi than Fe. Bulldozing over other people's preferences comes out as cuddly in FPs and rude in TJs, which is _so_ unfair... :tongue: Fe in an NT would be more likely to be responding to us, although it can be provoking a reaction as well & in an FJ would be browbeating us into tact because it's responding to other people's needs. Yeah.


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## Vaka (Feb 26, 2010)

I'm gonna admit something here, I like hugging INTJs because they don't like it. I just like picking on people...playfully! Definitely in good fun :laughing:


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## Liontiger (Jun 2, 2009)

Nyx said:


> I'm gonna admit something here, I like hugging INTJs because they don't like it. I just like picking on people...playfully! Definitely in good fun :laughing:


Haha, I do that too. I love cuddling up to people who just kinda sit there and look at me strangely. And I like talking to people who are squirreled away in a corner, hoping no one notices them. So if my presence makes you uncomfortable, I'm gonna be following you around, bugging you :laughing:

Anyway, on the topic of the thread: I think you're an ENFP. Juuustt a vibe I get. No logic about it, really.


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## energeticelephant (Apr 26, 2010)

Nyx said:


> I'm gonna admit something here, I like hugging INTJs because they don't like it. I just like picking on people...playfully! Definitely in good fun :laughing:


Haha...same here. :crazy: I like disrupting serious people's bubbles of seriousness and getting them to loosen up and have some fun. Or disrupting silly people's bubbles and getting them to have a serious conversation.


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## Vaka (Feb 26, 2010)

energeticelephant said:


> Haha...same here. :crazy: I like disrupting serious people's bubbles of seriousness and getting them to loosen up and have some fun. Or disrupting silly people's bubbles and getting them to have a serious conversation.


Atleast your motive is positive. I just flat out get a kick out of picking on people lol
If you tell me that something annoys you or if I find something that annoys you, there's a very good chance I'll constantly push that thing on you just for my own enjoyment. But I never go _too _far...


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## Vaka (Feb 26, 2010)

Four hours late...GO!!!

I read most of that thread:

Admittedly, I pay a lot of attention to how I am perceived. Apparently Fi-users don't want external influence on their ethical decisions. So if an Fi-user was deciding whether or not it is right to kill someone, they wouldn't want external influence? I'd actually kinda want that external influence. All-in-all, Fe seems to fit more if I'm going between Fi and Fe. Apparently Ti-users don't want external influence on their logical decisions or interpretations and the such. I can relate to that in that I trust myself more.(as in, I always think I'm right har har)

I'm really leaning toward ENTP even more now. Not that I want to be a T. If I hadn't already decided that I'm most definitely an ENP, I'd actually be looking at INFJ or ENFJ. If anyone has any further input, it's welcomed ^.^


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## Arioche (Aug 5, 2009)

ITT: Disappointment. (I kid, I kid.)
Do I have to go doubt my type now?

I still stick by my theory that you're an ENFP, but I don't feel like trying to make a coherant point via compilation of the bits of conversations we've had about this topic (It will be rather repetitive with all the points that has been made within this thread, after all.) 

Oh, and Nova, really good arguments. You should just give up on the unknown and come to the ENFP side.


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## Vaka (Feb 26, 2010)

Arioche said:


> ITT: Disappointment. (I kid, I kid.)
> Do I have to go doubt my type now?
> 
> I still stick by my theory that you're an ENFP, but I don't feel like trying to make a coherant point via compilation of the bits of conversations we've had about this topic (It will be rather repetitive with all the points that has been made within this thread, after all.)


I have a question, though: Can you relate to what I've said that makes me think that I'm an ENTP? Especially what I've typed in my last post?

Also, ENTPs and ENFPs are both sexy at the same level...Nahhh...Te is so much sexier than Ti!!
PS: Get 1k posts already! I'll stalk the game section with you just for it


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## susurration (Oct 22, 2009)

Arioche said:


> Oh, and Nova, really good arguments. You should just give up on the unknown and come to the ENFP side.


 Pretty damn sure i'm introverted given 99% of social pursuits tire the shit out of me and the outside world is very much secondary to my inside world. In other news, I think i'm going to create my own personality system which involves an infinate number of colour tones and jellybean flavours 




Nyx said:


> Four hours late...GO!!!
> 
> I read most of that thread:
> 
> ...


What kind of external influence would you want in that situation, and why? I mean, that is a pretty extreme example :tongue:

My ultimate advice to you, if you want to verify your 'type', would be to look at yourself, away from examples, and situations. Think of your conscious thought patterns before, mbti. Think of your conscious thought patterns as they've always been. Focus inwards and try to look at your conscious filters, rather than to take in more information/look for examples. Look at your _mindset_ holistically, instead of trying to look for what functions you "use"(which is probably a misdemeanor) 

I'm sorry I can't help you more, I've barely read sources on functions, and i've only skimmed through Jung (Fi admittedly :crying: lol, self absorbed, yes. I can't help it). 

On another note: I noticed you have previously said you experience Te and Se quite consciously. Do you think this is the same case for you now? this thread seems kind of circular, I can't quite grasp where your thoughts are heading :tongue:

Oh and before when I asked you how you were coming to understand mbti/functions... I mean, what does mbti (or rather, Jungain functions/ personality profiles) look like in your head?


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## lirulin (Apr 16, 2010)

How would external influence even be _relevant_ in making such a decision? Information sure, but influence? Why?? I don't understand where it would even come in.
I mean, it shapes your values as a kid, obviously, but most of that is subconscious, and then you process it.

Yeah, you kinda sound ENTP. So far.


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## Vaka (Feb 26, 2010)

Nova said:


> What kind of external influence would you want in that situation, and why? I mean, that is a pretty extreme example :tongue:


Well, this is what I got about Fe:


> believes ethics are best decided by an externalized consensus.


If I look at why I'm driven to do certain things that have to do with people and ethics, I can relate to that more. Plus, it said that Fi-users don't like external influence on their ethical views and whatnot. I can't really relate to that.

I know that was a bit of an extreme example lol

From what I've read here and in other places, it seems like an Fi-user would have strong ideas of what is right and what is wrong and that they would base their actions on something that's completely from them. 

I think it's the difference between(I'm staying away from the killing example LOL): "I'm not gonna punch you because I believe punching is wrong" and "I'm not gonna punch you because you don't want to be punched". Assuming both have basically positive motives, the Fi-user would be driven to treat people right based on his internal code while the Fe-user would be driven to treat people right based on their code...I THINK!

Sorry I rambled, I do that sometimes...



> I'm sorry I can't help you more, I've barely read sources on functions, and i've only skimmed through Jung (Fi admittedly :crying: lol, self absorbed, yes. I can't help it).


It's completely fine :happy:



> On another note: I noticed you have previously said you experience Te and Se quite consciously. Do you think this is the same case for you now? this thread seems kind of circular, I can't quite grasp where your thoughts are heading :tongue:


I don't really think so anymore now that I've looked into it more...
Also, I think that Se and Ne can be mixed up sometimes...

I'm actually pretty sure at this point that I'm an ENTP rather than an ENFP, but I have this problem with not being too sure of myself sometimes...



> Oh and before when I asked you how you were coming to understand mbti/functions... I mean, what does mbti (or rather, Jungain functions/ personality profiles) look like in your head?


I'm sorry, but what do you mean exactly?


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## Monte (Feb 17, 2010)

Hm, I'm sure at some point I'll have a longer post from you, but I, honestly, get an ENFP vibe from you whenever I randomly see a post of yours around here. You just... strike me as ENFP and my gut is never wrong, so... yeah~


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## Sonny (Oct 14, 2008)

If you think you were always wrong with the label of ENFP than that's one thing, but seems you're saying you were quite F as a child and are getting more and more T.

ENFPs become more T, ENTPs become more F as they get older, Te/Fe to be precise. 

Sounds like pretty normal ENFP development that you're describing.


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## Vaka (Feb 26, 2010)

I'm looking back at what xrevolutionx said about how xxTPs use Fe, I'd also have to pay attention to that, I suppose...
But I don't really think that I use Fi anymore. Maybe I'm wrong, though...



> My ultimate advice to you, if you want to verify your 'type', would be to look at yourself, away from examples, and situations. Think of your conscious thought patterns before, mbti. Think of your conscious thought patterns as they've always been. Focus inwards and try to look at your conscious filters, rather than to take in more information/look for examples. Look at your _mindset_ holistically, instead of trying to look for what functions you "use"(which is probably a misdemeanor)


I'll try that...


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