# Ni vs Si -- What the hell is the difference?



## apatheticus

Can someone please explain, in the most basic Jungian sense, how one would distinguish the use of Ni vs Si? 


From my limited understanding, Si is all about symbolism / subjective meaning associated with a concrete perception. So for example:

-A piece of unleavened bread and a chalice of wine representing the body and blood of Jesus Christ

-A hoarder who doesn't want to throw anything out since everything they own has a cherished memory / meaningful attribute attached to it. ("I'm saving this old plastic fork because it was from a wonderful picnic I had 10 years ago with a dear friend.")

-Looking at an art sculpture of twisted metal fragments and saying to yourself "To me, this piece represents the struggle of the proletariat in a post-modernist society." 

-etc. etc. etc.


However, I've also heard people associate Si with facts, details, histories, past experiences, anectodes, etc. --- basically, information that is stored away and compared against new concrete information to determine what makes sense and what is to be trusted -- i.e. the "predictable standard." ----- But then what does all of this have to do with the aforementioned version of Si?


As for Ni, supposedly that is hidden/ underlying truth & meaning associated with a concrete perception (Se) -- i.e. "what's really going on." For example:

-Watching two seemingly jovial people in conversation, yet getting the sense that one of them is actually really pissed off at the other.-----or is this actually Ne, since it is dealing with an outer-world intuition?


Okay, time out...it looks like I'm starting to blur Ne and Ni together, and my understanding of Si is somehow tangled up in all this mess.


I'm so confused!!! :bored:


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## sentilopis

Ni/Se vs Si/Ne

Ni is an abstract map of possibilities which you explore literally with Se.

Si is a literal map which you explore abstractly with Ne.


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## Owfin

Good question! 

First, that "other" Si people keep talking about evolved through basically a giant game of telephone and has very little in common with the original Si.

Si though isn't actually much for symbolism, though like all introverted functions, is all for subjectivity. Si's more like... examining your own personal experience of the painting. Si's focuses on how it reacts to something. This can be anywhere from "Well I get a sense of cloudiness outside" (usually communicated as "It's cloudy") to "I get a sense of unpleasantness from this painting". It's all about how you see things. Another look at it is:



Summary of Jung's Type Descriptions said:


> Introverted sensation is subjectively filtered. Perception is not based directly on the object, but is merely suggested by it. Instead, layers of subjective impressions are superimposed upon the image so that it becomes impossible to determine what will be perceived from a knowledge only of the object. Perception thus depends crucially upon internal psychological processes that will differ from one person to the next. At its most positive, introverted sensation is found in the creative artist. At its most extreme, it produces psychotic hallucinations and a total alienation from reality.


Ni I'm a little more shaky in my knowledge about, but here's a description from the same source:



Summary of Jung's Type Descriptions said:


> Introverted intuition is directed inward to the contents of the unconscious. It attempts to fathom internal events by relating them to universal psychological processes or to other archetypal images. Consequently it generally has a mythical, symbolic or prophetic quality.


(I myself have difficulty telling Ne and Ni apart!)


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## Yedra

I'd say Ni is about revealing layers beside the physical ones of a piece of information perceived by Se. It's guessing what is not visible right away but which is still true of a person, thing, phenomenon.
That's why I believe that if you put a bunch of Ni-doms to observe the same thing they would more or less come up with similar patterns because Ni still deals with what is, just not with what is visible on the physical plane.

Si evokes notions from the individual unconscious and that can be anything, it depends what a person has stored in their life. So if you put a bunch of Si-doms together and asked them to observe the same thing their impressions would most likely differ significantly from each other.

Once I had a bout of sciatica and I wanted to know what the cause was. I researched it and found out about herniated discs and stuff like that but somehow that didn't resonate with me. What did was the notion of muscle imbalances. Some people slouch, some arch their backs, some tilt to one side and so on. Those movement patterns become habituated and they are controlled by sub-cortical centers which means we don't do them voluntarily and we are not aware of them. In this case some muscles will become tight and the tighter one muscle, the agonist, gets the looser the antagonist will become. The agonist will work in overdrive while it will be very difficult for the person to engage the antagonist. Tight muscles pinch nerves which results in pain. Attempts to change movement patterns are abandoned because the habituated one feels more "comfortable" and "natural". The pain will increase and something needs to change. The solution is to transfer the control of muscle tension to the neo-cortical center, to become aware of the tight muscle and consciously contract and release it to get it back to resting tone, that is. Thus, the relation of agonist and antagonist will be improved and balance will be restored.

That concept reminded me of the functions of one's type. If the dominant function (agonist) is in overdrive the inferior (antagonist) will weaken and be difficult to activate. This will pose severe consequences for one's mental health. To restore balance the dominant function needs to loosen and the person will be able to be more aware of their inferior function.

And I could continue to observe the concept of agonist and antagonist anywhere else: night and day, sunshine and rain, etc.
It started with a personal experience and turned into a general idea.That would be Ni, I guess.

Now Si would focus on the pain, the movement limitations, anger, depression, resignation, steps of recovery, moods, circumstances etc. It will remember every detail and aspect of the experience and at every mention of sciatica the person will have a vivid recall of this experience as if they were reliving it again.

If I see someone struggling with sciatica I will of course think of my own battle with it but it will be secondary. I would try to observe the pattern I've recognized before but this time in the case of the particular person.

Or, for example, we could take the words _red dress_ and ask Si and Ni what they associate with it.

Si: red dress = the satin one I wore for prom, the one I wore on my first date with xy, the short one I wore on my birthday last year...

Ni: red dress = special occasions etc.

Ni creates webs out of things of the same pattern, while Si puts every experience in a separate box (that's why it's been Si=good memory, I guess).


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## DomNapoleon

You may find this interesting. 


> *Si (Introverted Sensing):*
> 
> *Reliability*: Si types are dependable, reliable and trustworthy. They like to belong to solid organizations that have reasonable in their ambitions and loyal to their employees. They are thorough and conscientious in fulfilling their responsibilities.
> 
> *Practicality*: Once an Si type accepts a project, they will see it to the end. They manage their time well and are realistic about how much time and resources will be needed. They derive great pleasure from perfecting existing techniques with the goal of maximizing efficiency and cost-effectiveness.
> 
> *Memory*: Si is reviewing past experiences and recalling stored impressions. Si often involves storing data and information, then comparing and contrasting the current situation with similar ones. The immediate experience or words are instantly linked with the prior experiences, and we register a similarity or a difference. Si is operating when we see someone who reminds of someone else. Sometimes the feeling associated with the recalled image comes into our awareness along with the information itself. The process involves reviewing the past to draw on the lessons of history, hindsight, and experience. Si types tend to have a good memory for specific facts that are necessary in their day-to-day life at work and at home. When one uses Si, we don’t adjust to our surface impressions; we package them and take them with us—in the form of facts, numbers, signs and memories. We don’t remember, or even notice, everything that we see, hear, taste, touch and smell during the course of our lives. Only some things strike us as important, useful, familiar, or exciting enough to convert into mental content—that is, into facts that we retain over time. Si guides in this selection, and it prompts us to reconcile our new impressions with the ones we’ve already stored.
> 
> *Attention to Detail*: Si types are careful and orderly in their attention to facts and details, Si is accumulating data and seeking details information and links to what is known. With Si, there is often a great attention to detail and getting a clear picture of goals and objectives and what is to happen. Si is recognizing the way things have always been.
> 
> *Stability*: With Si there can be a oneness with ageless customs that help sustain civilization and culture, and protect what is known and long-lasting. The Si type tends to be rather modest, traditional and conventional, to like sensible clothing, to be thrifty, careful and wise with both money and possessions. They may keep possessions for a lifetime and treasure those that were given to them. Si types have a developed sense of citizenship and accountability. From an Si viewpoint, immediate conditions have no stable meaning. They’re just an influx of data impinging on the senses, and the response to these impressions depends on mood, state of mind, desires and feelings. It’s our commitments and priorities, the facts we hold inalienable that give our circumstances enduring significance. Knowing what matters, what’s worth keeping or building again, gives a sense of continuity and security. It gives direction in the midst of a crisis, or helps to weather a loss of faith that immediate feelings would not equip us to handle. All things flow away like water, but the ground of our self-experience remains. Si types are typically seen as well grounded in reality, trustworthy, and dedicated to preserving traditional values and time-honored institutions.
> 
> *Suppression*: Si and Ne have a suppressive relationship. The chaos on unpredictability of Ne renders the reliance of the past data obsolete in that it cannot be reliably trusted if the environment is constantly changing.
> 
> 
> *Ni (Introverted intuition):*
> 
> *Perspective Shifting*: Using Ni a person can shift their perspectives, view and understand things from different angles and in different ways, each giving insights, synthesizing information and trying to get to the best outcome for the problem at hand and accomplish a vision of the future. Perspectives are often evoked by focusing on physical symbols, archetypes, totems, and other abstractions like visual models. This ability allows the Ni user to see the underlying meaning and universal truths of natural law behind symbols and abstractions, and then apply them in other places that appear unrelated or contradictory.
> 
> *Meaningful Insight*: Ni involves synthesizing the seemingly paradoxical or contradictory, which takes understanding to a new level. Using this process, one can have moments when completely new, unimagined realizations come to them. Quite often during times of relaxation after concentrated intellectual activity, when the mind is allowed to wander freely, the Ni seems to take over and can produce the sudden clarifying insights. Ni is a way of seeing things that rise above competing views. Engaging this process starts with entering a state of withdrawal from the world in order to purposefully gain an insight or realization. These insights may manifest as "aha!" experiences, the kind of thing that "pops" into your head while you're taking a shower. Once these insights come to pass they can align them with their global model transforming it into an updated perspective of the world and future.
> 
> *Prediction*: Ni is always looking for implications of how the future will unfold. Ni types often find themselves laying out how the future will unfold based on unseen trends and telling signs. Because of this curious power that Ni users have, they tend to be seen as having a “psychic” or prophetic quality to them.
> 
> *Visionary Drive*: The sense of the future and the realizations that come from Ni have sureness and an imperative quality that seem to demand action and help us stay focused on fulfilling our vision or dream of how things will be in the future. The Ni user can hold the ideal future society or system within their Ni, and rigorously drive toward this goal to turn it into reality.
> 
> *Independence of Mind*: Ni dominants confidently trust their intuitions, insights, ideas, and inspirations - often no matter what others say. Their thoughts become part of who they are, and they are completely independent of the world the live in. Ni dominants are the most independent minded of all other types, the insights they pick up on in their lives are completely original and subjective. For this reason, many Ni dominants feel like aliens, as if they perceive a completely different reality from everyone else.
> 
> *Suppression*: Ni and Se have a suppressive relationship. Ni causes the person to withdraw from the active sensual environment in order to work effectively. The slightest nudge, impulse noise, or visual flash can knock a person completely out of Ni and derail their train of thought. Because of this, Ni dominants can’t stand being interrupted, and prefer to surround themselves with only the most pleasant of sensations.


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## Raichan

Si - *recalling* based on external data derived from past information/experience, remembering how things have always been or usually are

Ni - *envisioning* occurrences/ transformations based on internal data, conceptualizing new ways of seeing things at times derived from meanings or symbols


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## Emerson

sentilopis said:


> Ni/Se vs Si/Ne
> 
> Ni is an abstract map of possibilities which you explore literally with Se.
> 
> Si is a literal map which you explore abstractly with Ne.


This is perhaps one of the best ways of laying it out. Bravo.


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## Knight_In_Rags

Ni = Pulled toward the future and possibilities. It's like an inner eye focused on what could be, rather than what is. 

Si = Drawn to the concrete and specific details of any information presented.


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## CryoftheCrow

Ne (an infinite, abstract map of what could possibly be real) > (converged into) Si (a limited, concrete impression of what reality is)
Se (an infinite, concrete map of what reality is) > (converged into) Ni (a limited, abstract impression of what could possibly be real)


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## Gurpy

I don't have Ni and have Si as my third function so this might not be accurate but:

Si rembers things with detail and files it away. It is good at remembering facts.

Ni rembers things as one thought. It gets epiphanies and can interpret one thing in many angles.

They both are used as memory.


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## Sixty Nein

I'd say the distinction between Introverted Intuition and it's sensing counterpart is best expressed as an illustration.

Introverted Intuition as a function seizes the objects around them, and tries to compile them into the nucleus. All of the geometry of an object is utilized and deconstructed to fit into a personalized imaged that is instantaneous perceived. Everything is glued in together to fill in the point that expresses what is actually there when you piece them all together. These images however are only somewhat consciously perceived, and thus it is difficult to actually apprehend their nature with language.

Introverted sensation utterly disregards the geometry however, every single point and purpose is not concretely perceived. It would be as if the Introverted sensation type is sucked into a vortex of impressions that sink into their very soul. Completely enraptured by these images, they do not really try to piece them all together. Introverted sensation poisons the actual object of it's value, and thus relies on extroverted intuition to try to repair those images that they perceived to a concrete fashion.

Hope that does it justice.


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## CryoftheCrow

I don't have Si in my functional stack so this may be a little inaccurate:

Si remembers its impressions surrounding the sense data to a very high degree. Ex. An Si user can accurately recall how a particular experience made them or someone they care about feel or a particular thought they were experiencing whilst they had this experience with great detail. Si users therefore want to preserve what has proven useful to them in their past because they will remember the impact these "traditions" had on them with great detail. Because of this strong capacity to remember past impressions, all they have to do is associate facts with feelings, thoughts, or other impressions and they can recall the impression and the fact as one single unit. 

Ni, by contrast, has no memorization capability. For Ni users, every situation that a Ni user has ever experienced could be treated as entirely separate and distinct. Their memories of the past are not as infused with impressions as Si users, but rather as interconnected units that can be disconnected. These memories can be separate from a lot of their subjective impressions of the incident. 

Their Se takes in and packages concrete, sensible information (as much information as they can in order to acquire a clear idea of what is possible) solely as it is without debating what the object is. For instance, a desk made of red wood is simply a desk made of red wood. Nothing more and nothing less. One might argue that the desk has a brownish tint and therefore is not a red desk. Another person could contradict him/her with their impression that the red desk has a grayish tint, but not a brownish one. Therefore, this is Si. There is one way to verify the credibility of color: electromagnetic spectrum analysis. To be quite fair, every physical quality of any object can be objectively verified with science. Roughness with coefficient of friction, color with electromagnetism, height with altitude, etc.

I guess the best way to put it is that Si impressions take longer to verify than Se impressions. This is exacerbated by the fact that Si = depth, whereas Se = breadth. Therefore, Se users prefer the speedy analysis and consensus of the object being perceived (Se) in lieu of its depth and precision of detail(Si).

Ni uses Se information to formulate its theories and impressions (much like assembling pieces of a puzzle). Moreover, since Se is entirely concerned with reality as it is, the result is often prophetic, insightful, and/or visionary. This is further exacerbated by the fact that both Ni and Se rely heavily on vision. Also, vision is proven to be the most widely used of the traditional five senses according to contemporary psychologists. 

Te, by contrast, is the fact-retention function. It is able to both store and recall facts, dates, numbers, and other information (which can also be subjective) in its original form. It is the primary rival to Si with regard to this ability. 

Be careful however when deciding what functions are yours. Your tertiary and inferior functions are alien to you and you may not feel that your functional stack includes them. Also, be aware that these same two functions correspond to what you most desire to have with great depth, but do not have with great depth. Don't mistake your desire for the possession of the ability with the possession of the ability. Finally, each and every function will function differently depending on its location in the functional stack of its user. Ex. xxFJ's Fe functions quite differently than xxTP's Fe, etc.


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## CryoftheCrow

S


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## Aiwass

I've observed the following differences between how Ni and Si memorize things:

Ni is concerned with concepts and ideas regarding the object. Ni tries to remember things through their "essence"-- details are often excluded because the essence is what matters. I've often been told that my memory is bad, but it is not that it's exactly bad: my memories often emerge in an abstract, conceptual way that is hard as hell to translate into words.

Si, on the other hand, often remembers which details characterize an object and reproduces the feelings or reactions that are personally attached to the object. Si is very useful to remember how the object _is_ in a concrete manner, but it doesn't necessarily associates the object with concepts and ideas.


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## CryoftheCrow

"Si...often remembers which details characterize an object and reproduces the feelings or reactions that are personally attached to the object. Si is very useful to remember how the object _is_ in a concrete manner, but it doesn't necessarily associates the object with concepts and ideas."

Please, Aiwass, could you elaborate more on how Si remembers its impressions of what is real? I am very curious and want to learn all I can about this kind of stuff. If I made an error, I would be delighted if someone showed me where the argument breaks down and how it might become more solid. In fact, I would welcome your honest opinion and criticism with open arms. How else am I supposed to change if I don't know what went wrong?


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## Deus Absconditus

Ni in contrast to Si:



> Like sensation, intuition has its subjective factor, which is suppressed as much as possible in the extraverted attitude but is the decisive factor in the intuition of the introvert. Although his intuition may be stimulated by external objects, it does not concern itself with external possibilities but with what the external object has released within him. Whereas introverted sensation is mainly restricted to the perception, via the unconscious, of the phenomena of innervation and is arrested there, introverted intuition suppresses this side of the subjective factor and perceives the image that caused the innervation. Supposing, for instance, a man is overtaken by an attack of psychogenic vertigo. Sensation is arrested by the peculiar nature of this disturbance of innervation, perceiving all its qualities, its intensity, its course, how it arose and how it passed, but not advancing beyond that to its content, to the thing that caused the disturbance. Intuition, on the other hand, receives from sensation only the impetus to its own immediate activity; it peers behind the scenes, quickly perceiving the inner image that gave rise to this particular form of expression— the attack of vertigo. It sees the image of a tottering man pierced through the heart by an arrow. This image fascinates the intuitive activity; it is arrested by it, and seeks to explore every detail of it. It holds fast to the vision, observing with the liveliest interest how the picture changes, unfolds, and finally fades.


Ni is focused on the image released within, not of external possibilities, while Si is solely focused on the physical innervation.


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