# More moral and/or more intelligent than others?



## aconite (Mar 26, 2012)

The Muhammad Ali effect, according to wiki:


> The Muhammad Ali Effect is a term used in psychology that was named after him when he stated, "I only said I was the greatest, not the smartest" in his autobiography The Greatest: My Own Story. According to this effect, when people are asked to rate their intelligence and moral behavior in comparison to others, people will rate themselves as more moral, but not more intelligent than others.


So, do you agree or not? Because I'm the opposite - I think I'm less moral and more intelligent that most people. Do you think that Enneagram and MBTI might play a role in the answer?


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## Dark Romantic (Dec 27, 2011)

More intelligent? Yes. More moral? Hell no.


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## Staffan (Nov 15, 2011)

Hard to tell. There is a measure of intelligence and judging from that I'm clearly above average. But there is no measure of morals, not that I know of anyway. 

I guess it could be that feelers have stronger morals than thinkers since their basic interpretation of the world is good and bad as opposed to the thinker's true or false, although I suspect a lot of thinkers would disagree. ENTP and ESTP probably behave more immorally than average on account of their impulsivity.


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## Akbar2k7 (Oct 23, 2011)

More intelligent and more moral, however I never act on my moral.


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## Word Dispenser (May 18, 2012)

Everybody's got a different set of morals. 

I'm sure in tons of cases, a Thinker and a Feeler would agree and even share some of their morals. They just acquire and process those morals in different ways. And I think that a thinker may be more likely to change their mind if more information comes along that either supplements said morals, or changes them. Or completely annihilates them. 

I'm not certain if I have a firm grasp on the concepts of feeler and thinker, though.

I mean, there are a few morals that I've acquired that haven't budged, and I'd _imagine_ I'm a thinker. But maybe this is only my over-active _imagination. _In either case, I will continue to masquerade as a thinker until I think I'm not a thinker_, thoughtfully!_


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## Staffan (Nov 15, 2011)

Word Dispenser said:


> Everybody's got a different set of morals.
> 
> I'm sure in tons of cases, a Thinker and a Feeler would agree and even share some of their morals. They just acquire and process those morals in different ways. And I think that a thinker may be more likely to change their mind if more information comes along that either supplements said morals, or changes them. Or completely annihilates them.
> 
> ...


You may well be a thinker but in my opinion the MBTI seems to overtype all the preferences that are less common - I, N, T, and P. The majority of men are supposed to be thinkers but I can't see that in real life. I test pretty even on the TF scale in spite of being a very clear F. 

I agree that a thinker is more likely to change their moral position in ligth of new information. But I suspect morals are more synonymous to ethics for thinkers, rules of social behavior rather than something that necessarily boils down to right and wrong.


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## Word Dispenser (May 18, 2012)

Staffan said:


> You may well be a thinker but in my opinion the MBTI seems to overtype all the preferences that are less common - I, N, T, and P. The majority of men are supposed to be thinkers but I can't see that in real life. I test pretty even on the TF scale in spite of being a very clear F.
> 
> I agree that a thinker is more likely to change their moral position in light of new information. But I suspect morals are more synonymous to ethics for thinkers, rules of social behavior rather than something that necessarily boils down to right and wrong.


Very succinctly put.

I couldn't imagine being anywhere outside of the realm of -N-P. I don't really fit in to any types outside of those guidelines. 

I fill in the T because it makes the most sense; it's really how I _seem_ to operate. But, it took me quite awhile to be even mostly sure of this. 

E is because, even if I've been a loner, I've always been much more happy and energetic with company. I really don't like being alone for very long. Lots of people seem to need time away from others, _everybody_. I've never been like that. I'm always happy if there are people in the immediate vicinity, one or more, it matters not.

I'm still kinda expecting people to jump out and go, ''IMPOSTER!!!'' 

I'm preparing a proper reaction to this when it happens.


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## paper lilies (Dec 6, 2011)

More intelligent than others? Yes. 
More moral than others? No. There are definitely people that are _way_ more moral than I am.


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## cades (Apr 25, 2012)

I'd say I'm more moral than most and I would say more intelligent but I know there are lots more intelligent then me. Plus education does not equal intelligence. But this probably happens because you can always imagine some super smart people somewhere and think well there are a lot of people smarter, even if it is only a minority.

The more education the more moral i think, but more education doesn't really mean more intelligence.
Just like typically the more educated people get the more liberal they are (which focus on moral issues) but that doesn't mean they are any smarter.


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## Ace Face (Nov 13, 2011)

I'm mildly ashamed to admit yes to both, but oh well, lol. Chalk me up to receive some cocky bastard points, please


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## LotusBlossom (Apr 2, 2011)

I don't really think anyone is going to say that they're 'less' intelligent than others. Also I have a difficult time believing when somebody say they're not smart/intelligent that that is really true. It takes somebody who is very sharp to be this self-aware and candid with their shortcomings.


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## Enfpleasantly (Mar 5, 2012)

Kayness said:


> I don't really think anyone is going to say that they're 'less' intelligent than others. Also I have a difficult time believing when somebody say they're not smart/intelligent that that is really true. It takes somebody who is very sharp to be this self-aware and candid with their shortcomings.


Good point. When I imagine someone I perceive as unintelligent, I think of oblivious people. The ones who have no insight into themselves whatsoever, and some of those people are technially "intelligent", but not in my book. Being able to do differential equations in your head, but zero insight into yourself qualifies as ignorance to me.


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## KneeSeekerArrow (Jan 8, 2012)

PerC, where all the women are strong, all the men are good looking, and all the children are above average.


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## elle vs (May 29, 2012)

more intelligent than most everyone I have encountered in my life so far, but certainly not more moral. morals are pretty ridiculous if you really think about it. they are 'illusions'... part of the human condition, I suppose.


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## Staffan (Nov 15, 2011)

cades said:


> I'd say I'm more moral than most and I would say more intelligent but I know there are lots more intelligent then me. Plus education does not equal intelligence. But this probably happens because you can always imagine some super smart people somewhere and think well there are a lot of people smarter, even if it is only a minority.
> 
> The more education the more moral i think, but more education doesn't really mean more intelligence.
> Just like typically the more educated people get the more liberal they are (which focus on moral issues) but that doesn't mean they are any smarter.


There is some research to suggest that liberals have higher intelligence, which is in line with them scoring higher on Big Five Openness, a trait strongly correlated to IQ. This of course should not be construed as evidence that the liberal position is somehow objectively better. 

But are liberals morally superior? I can't say I see that. They just seem to focus on other questions than conservatives.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

both :wink:


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## Paradigm (Feb 16, 2010)

Kayness said:


> I don't really think anyone is going to say that they're 'less' intelligent than others. Also I have a difficult time believing when somebody say they're not smart/intelligent that that is really true. It takes somebody who is very sharp to be this self-aware and candid with their shortcomings.


The important difference is that it doesn't say "are you not as smart?" It says "Are you *more *smart?" In other words, being average doesn't make you stupid.

I generally consider myself more moral than the average, but I see too many people being apathetic. More intelligent, not really.


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## elle vs (May 29, 2012)

Staffan said:


> There is some research to suggest that liberals have higher intelligence, which is in line with them scoring higher on Big Five Openness, a trait strongly correlated to IQ. This of course should not be construed as evidence that the liberal position is somehow objectively better.
> 
> But are liberals morally superior? I can't say I see that. They just seem to focus on other questions than conservatives.



I agree with this. I mean it just seems so true. Liberals are all around just more open-minded, which, if you ask me, just results in a more intelligent person, for obvious reasons really. A more moral person, not so much... because of all the influences of the world I suppose. At least that is how I see it.


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## cades (Apr 25, 2012)

Well I see my intelligence as average, but average is still better than most people so I may have to change my answer~~lol


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## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

Word Dispenser said:


> Everybody's got a different set of morals.


Yeah, I mean what is "moral" anyway? Doing what you believe is right?
So it doesn't even matter whether your morals emulate the conventional wisdom, you still have some.
(For example, I would consider "intellectual honesty" to be a typical moral for INTPs.)
So I think the question is vague and misleading as proposed. 

That being said, @_Staffan_'s comments seem right on... I think that Thinkers are more likely to "deduce" their morals from information; the information changes, the moral will change. Feelers are actually keying off something internal to themselves and when that anchor changes, the moral changes, and external information can be ignored if the inner moral compass is still firmly valuing what it has always valued.

For my morals, I typically try to:

1. Keep my promises even at my own expense.
2. Retain intellectual honesty regardless of my feelings.
3. Be open to other people and their experiences, without simply writing them off.
4. Treat other people with dignity rather than dehumanizing them.

But these are broad philanthropical morals, rather than "don't lie, don't drink, don't murder, don't swear, etc." or uttering words like, "Well, I don't do THAT."


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## Stephen (Jan 17, 2011)

Under no circumstances could I consider intelligence more important than moral behavior. I am of _above-average_ intelligence by all measures I've encountered, but really if I saw myself as less moral than the average, I would find that unconscionably loathsome, because I evaluate myself and others morally based on my own personal values. It's hard for me to imagine someone considering themselves less moral than most people and not seeing that as something that needs to be _fixed_. So I'll say that I consider myself more intelligent, and more moral, than the average.


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## Staffan (Nov 15, 2011)

Jennywocky said:


> Yeah, I mean what is "moral" anyway? Doing what you believe is right?
> So it doesn't even matter whether your morals emulate the conventional wisdom, you still have some.
> (For example, I would consider "intellectual honesty" to be a typical moral for INTPs.)
> So I think the question is vague and misleading as proposed.
> ...


There is psychologist named Jonathan Haidt who believes he and his colleagues have found six universal moral foundations. Although they exist in all known cultures there is a variation, for example with political view and personality. According to this theory it seems you would score high on the Loyalty/betrayal, and Liberty/oppression, and Care/harm dimensions. 

I've been meaning to do some kind of poll on that but here is the homepage with a test:Moral Foundations Theory Homepage

And here Haidt is doing his TED talk:


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## RoughEstimate (Mar 10, 2012)

Jesus.......


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## RoughEstimate (Mar 10, 2012)

I know a little and I try to live pretty righteously.
I don't pride myself in being above the cut in either, or one of the two will inevitably suffer...won't it ?


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## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

Staffan said:


> There is psychologist named Jonathan Haidt who believes he and his colleagues have found six universal moral foundations. Although they exist in all known cultures there is a variation, for example with political view and personality. According to this theory it seems you would score high on the Loyalty/betrayal, and Liberty/oppression, and Care/harm dimensions.
> 
> I've been meaning to do some kind of poll on that but here is the homepage with a test:Moral Foundations Theory Homepage


Cool, thank you for the link.

Another value I forgot is "not controlling others." That's a big deal to me. I try very hard to avoid control or manipulation, to me it's a form of possession and I don't want to interfere with their autonomy.


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## Staffan (Nov 15, 2011)

roughestimate said:


> I know a little and I try to live pretty righteously.
> I don't pride myself in being above the cut in either, or one of the two will inevitably suffer...won't it ?


Is that your feet? I rarely see anyone who has the same wide spaced toes as I have.


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## RoughEstimate (Mar 10, 2012)

Staffan said:


> Is that your feet? I rarely see anyone who has the same wide spaced toes as I have.


 Haha. I got a little self-conscious, there. Yea, I just never got into the whole "shoes" craze. I only wear them out of necessity, even now. I figure that has a lot to do with it, since my parents didn't really share the trait.


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## Jwing24 (Aug 2, 2010)

I have no idea how intelligent I am compared to the general population. I don't think my ACT score, my degree in finance, or a silly online IQ test I have taken really measure this. But I do think I am more moral than the average.


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## Fictionalizer (Jun 10, 2012)

Staffan said:


> There is some research to suggest that liberals have higher intelligence, which is in line with them scoring higher on Big Five Openness, a trait strongly correlated to IQ. This of course should not be construed as evidence that the liberal position is somehow objectively better.
> 
> But are liberals morally superior? I can't say I see that. They just seem to focus on other questions than conservatives.


My friend is a liberal and I am a conservative. She knows I am more intelligent than her and has even made a comment to me about it. My therapist confirms this. As for morality, we are about equal although we did not always see eye to eye. I was more moral.


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## Staffan (Nov 15, 2011)

Fictionalizer said:


> My friend is a liberal and I am a conservative. She knows I am more intelligent than her and has even made a comment to me about it. My therapist confirms this. As for morality, we are about equal although we did not always see eye to eye. I was more moral.


Did you watch the TED lecture of Jonathan Haidt that I linked above? It's really interesting and worth the time. He suggests that the difference between liberals and conservatives is that liberals focus on justice and caring about other people - which conservatives do too - but that they reject authority, ingroup loyalty and purity/sanctity that conservatives embrace. Haidt means that all the great civilizations were built using all these principles and that it's all about finding a balance and a proper implementation of them - if I understand him right.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

- definitely more intelligent than average
- I wouldn't say I focus on morality more than most people, but I think my values are much more adequately defined and congruent than most people. what does that count as?


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## SilentScream (Mar 31, 2011)

For me, I choose to be more moral than I really am internally because it serves to set me apart from those society considers immoral. Immorality is bad for business, it's bad for one's image .... hence I decided to take on a persona of being morally pure at a young age. Internally, my views are very different from how I choose to act externally. When I was young and immature, I went the people pleasing route .. I let them think whatever they wanted of me and they were all very craftily created images.

Buried deep is a very hedonistic version of myself that comes out to play when no one is watching. And that ability to be ablr to what I want to be made me believe I was a lot smarter than everyone else as well ... however, I shed my masks last year and realized that I did manage to create some very strong moral values along the years and I hold myself to those values.


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## too INTP to pick one name (Jun 12, 2012)

I think "morality" in the outward sense, your own personal actions, is directly irrelevant to personality. The way you interact with and process the world in general is one thing, but what you restrain yourself from doing and whether force yourself to do virtuous things despite the consequences shapes your morality. You could be the most intelligent person in the world, but a prick, or be a very simple-minded person who has unwavering dedication to what they feel is right.

However, personality can be relevant in an indirect sense. There might actually be moral predispositions in certain areas for certain personalities. I've read that INTPs are inclined to be more loyal, less judgmental, et cetera. I'm sure the other personality types also have predispositions toward things which are conductive to moral action. However, once again, they become irrelevant in the sense that one can override anything predisposed, whether it's a predisposition toward what we'd consider immoral or a predisposition toward the moral.


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## TheMilitantAtheist (Dec 22, 2011)

Every person, when making a moral decision, is convinced that their decision is the most moral. 

What I ask is what kind of morals I am comparing my own to? What makes something more moral than another? Is it the idea of equality? That's a western ideology. From my observation, I am more concerned with equality than many others. Placing my moral values in the middle eastern society with an Islamic moral ideology, I would be viewed as an immoral person. In a society that views anything in a way that conflicts with my personal moral views, most of which are from this western ideology (I AM being raised in western culture, after all), I would be viewed as an immoral person by that society.

I can't honestly answer the question posed, because I find the question to be flawed. There would have to be something to base my comparison off of, such as a person, group, or nation's morals and values.


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## elle vs (May 29, 2012)

TheMilitantAtheist said:


> *Every person, when making a moral decision, is convinced that their decision is the most moral.
> *
> What I ask is what kind of morals I am comparing my own to? What makes something more moral than another? Is it the idea of equality? That's a western ideology. From my observation, I am more concerned with equality than many others. Placing my moral values in the middle eastern society with an Islamic moral ideology, I would be viewed as an immoral person. In a society that views anything in a way that conflicts with my personal moral views, most of which are from this western ideology (I AM being raised in western culture, after all), I would be viewed as an immoral person by that society.
> 
> I can't honestly answer the question posed, because I find the question to be flawed. There would have to be something to base my comparison off of, such as a person, group, or nation's morals and values.


I agree with you for the most part, but I have to say that the question is what _you _believe, so it doesn't really matter if you base it off of anything... according the question. 
either way, as for the *bolded* part... I (as well as with a few other people on this thread, apparently, I have noticed) do _not_ think I more moral than most others. in fact even many Americans may consider me quite immoral. the most liberal of liberals on the planet might even. and I don't deny this either... not even in my own mind do I consider myself more moral than any given person I may be chatting with (not to say I am a despicable person, I wouldn't say that either). just sayin'. 
I think_ all _morals are total crap (not to say we should just run rampant in the streets, I'm not saying that, just making a point is all) because they are not really_ based off of anything_, they are just human beings claiming to know what is right and wrong(own minds, or in public) (and that goes for any culture btw) its just us[humans] looking for another way to validate our place in existence... and giving it some sort of 'government', if you will, in order to do so. but I apologize to all the religious people out there who may have read this post, sorry, I am obviously not religious.


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## Jewl (Feb 28, 2012)

I know I have been called intelligent. I feel like I am more intelligent than others, sometimes. I know I am in a place where I am surrounded by well educated and intellectual people and I can "hold my own" so to speak when conversing with them. It depends on the definition of intelligence and who I am being compared to, I suppose. I will go with yes, I think I would consider myself more intelligent in some ways than others. 

People would definitely call me moral. I think I would consider myself moral as well. Morality and intelligence are equally important to me. I think I will say yes to both for these reasons.


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## Pitchblend (Mar 18, 2012)

I'm not more moral or intelligent than anyone around here...


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## Sayonara (May 11, 2012)

I have definitive morals but I do not feel they are limiting to me in any way. I'm a loosely practicing Buddhist at best and basically believe in 'harm none.' So long as you aren't harming another, do whatever the heck you want, I won't care.

I don't believe my morals have affected my intelligence at all though, I've always been a bit on the slow side and I've always hated it.


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## Donovan (Nov 3, 2009)

Staffan said:


> There is some research to suggest that liberals have higher intelligence, which is in line with them scoring higher on Big Five Openness, a trait strongly correlated to IQ. This of course should not be construed as evidence that the liberal position is somehow objectively better.
> 
> But are liberals morally superior? I can't say I see that. They just seem to focus on other questions than conservatives.


look into critical race theory and see how much sense their liberal/modern ideas make (i may be confusing the term liberal, but so many words are used for many different purposes that it kind of depends on one's own definition). it's basically a reverse on the "power-structure" in order to further social revenge. it's obvious, and a common technique they use in order to side-track anyone with common sense is that "logic" is the "white-man's evil tool" and therefore has to be ignored in order to further truth. 

(if i'm wrong on any of this, please point it out to me--it really bothers me that there's movements like this one and i'd very much like to be wrong).

side note: morality and intelligence really go hand-in-hand. it's hard to have one and not the other, but very easy to appear to have one and be deficient in the other.


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## WoodsofDesolation (May 19, 2012)

I'm not more intelligent and/or more moral than others. Intelligence is a characteristic everyone possesses in different levels and/or is utilized in various circumstances, so it's not fair for me to say some are more intelligent than others. I think that not everyone has the same need to display their knowledge or become knowledgeable about certain things unless it interests them.

Just like with morals, it depends on the individual's perception. Morality can be flexible, but I do think there are clear right and wrongs.


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## Nowhere Man (Apr 22, 2012)

Usually, it's people who think their morality, intelligence, and opinions are above everyone else's who commit the most heinous acts.

As for the question, morality and intelligence are pretty subjective things, so no, I wouldn't say I'm "better" than others in either way.


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## Radiant Flux (May 7, 2010)

I think I am no more moral and no more intelligent than everyone else.


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## Psychophlegmatic (Apr 29, 2012)

hmm. Well I know I'm relatively intelligent, but I don't believe that intelligence can be accurately measured.

Morals? Me? lol....absolutely not...although that doesn't mean that I go around killing people..


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## Nastorm (Jun 3, 2012)

I'm more intelligent that the average and I'm less moral than the average.


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## Emberrise (Jun 13, 2012)

Lmbo, most think they're more intelligent than others. that just creates arrogance/i'm smarter than you attitude (in some people), which makes them appear like they have a few screws missing.


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## ilphithra (Jun 22, 2010)

More intelligent than others? If I go by my IQ tests, then I'm quite a bit above "the average".
More Moral than others? No.


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## Aqualung (Nov 21, 2009)

I remember a psychology professor asking us how we define intelligence & we spent an hour + chipping away at it. Never quite nailed it down. Based on what we came up with I'd guess I'm of average intelligence. Morally, still not sure. I read of the heinous crimes people commit daily & think I'm above that but someone might spend an hour in my shoes & think I'm disgusting. I'll say average there too.


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## SenhorFrio (Apr 29, 2010)

i don't really think i'm more smartly or moral than "others"


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## Closet Extrovert (Mar 11, 2009)

I've definitely got more morals than other people, and maybe I don't have a lot of knowledge intelligence, but I reckon I think one hell of a lot more about doing some things than other people. Like I look at other people, see what they're doing wrong, and from there I don't do what they do. I don't like contradicting myself, so I follow what I value. Some things I just reckon is plain stupid (positions) that people get themselves into that they could have easily avoided, had they followed their thinking rather than what they're feeling at that particular moment in time...


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## Hruberen (Jan 2, 2012)

I'm forced to think of myself as more intelligent than everyone else, it's all anyone ever compliments me on, and people always seek me out when they don't know the answer to things, even when I don't have the answer.

However, I pride myself on my rogueish, selfish morals because I know i'm more sincere about what I do than most people.


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## chickydoda (Feb 12, 2010)

I put myself as both more moral and intelligent than others, but in reality, 25% of people are probably more intelligent than me, and 10% more moral.

My IQ is about 110 and my creative and emotional scores were around 130 when I had official tests done in high school- of course, they could be a bit higher, because when I was tested I was really stressed, I had trouble taking in new information and my mind was in a fog like state.

I feel like most people on this site are more intelligent than me- maybe its just the threads I'm visiting?


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## DomNapoleon (Jan 21, 2012)

aconite said:


> So, do you agree or not? Because I'm the opposite - I think I'm less moral and more intelligent that most people. Do you think that Enneagram and MBTI might play a role in the answer?


I am not very moralist... I don't give a damn to moral and to respecting others. In place of that I prefer to have an hedonistic behavior towards others... Let me explain. I don't go for *I respect everyone... I am nice* NOP In fact, no one respects me and if you would let them, people were now fucking you in all possible ways. Besides, I find moralistic fundamentals very hypocritical.
In place of that I say *I will please you if you please me and if you don't damage my freedom*... I prefer to have that life style. *Be happy and make others happy*

1s and 5s are the most moralistic people. 9s and 6s can also be like that. Some 8s too. However they can be extremely revengeful and break everything that they believed before (that's one difference between 8s and 1s lol) 
7s, rebel 6s and some 3s and 4s don't seem too much moralist. 5s at the dr. Frankeinstein level aren't.

Recording to intelligence, I don't know if I am or not more intelligent than others... I think that in an emotional level no. But i try not to give more importance to IQ...It doesn't seem useful at all. 

I don't find associations between intelligence and IQ (however, : ( i have to say that in the begining i found the stereotype of 7s incredibly dumb)


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## Worriedfunction (Jun 2, 2011)

Maybe when I was younger I might have considered myself more intelligent than others, but it was always specific people, I never held the view of being more intelligent than some faceless majority.

These days I dont think im more intelligent than most people, with only a small number of exceptions.

Im certainly not more moral than anyone and no experience in my life has ever proven otherwise.

On the flipside a lot of people's perceptions of me are that I am unintelligent but moral.


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## ShadoWolf (Jun 5, 2012)

I think it really has to do with your current situation.


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## BensUsername (Oct 22, 2011)

I sometimes feel more moral and more intelligent than others. Some people just don't seem to give a fuck about the well being of others and society, just going through life building their ever-expanding egotistical selves. I feel more intelligent than others in real life, but feel stupid online.


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## L (Aug 12, 2011)

I put "not more moral or more intelligent than others". 

There are lots of people on here that are a lot smarter than me in my supposed strong suits. Then there is always the "different intelligence" thought avenues one could go down.

Then there is morality. I have a higher morality in some areas whilst in others I do not. For instance, I find it incredibly cruel to hurt animals yet I could sleep just fine killing a random human being on the street, but I don't find it logical.


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## elle vs (May 29, 2012)

L said:


> I put "not more moral or more intelligent than others".
> 
> There are lots of people on here that are a lot smarter than me in my supposed strong suits. Then there is always the "different intelligence" thought avenues one could go down.
> 
> Then there is morality. I have a higher morality in some areas whilst in others I do not. For instance, I find it incredibly cruel to hurt animals yet I could sleep just fine killing a random human being on the street, but I don't find it logical.


...are you perhaps suggesting that have killed a random human being on the street... or are planning to do so??


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## L (Aug 12, 2011)

elle vs said:


> ...are you perhaps suggesting that have killed a random human being on the street... or are planning to do so??


Haha, no. None to worry there. I'm just saying it wouldn't bother me but I have no reason to do so.

In fact, it is because of this particular outlook and my shitty high school experience that led me to being a pacifist by nature, I would likely kill somebody if I got into a real fight.


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## elle vs (May 29, 2012)

^^^L
lol, I'm a little confused... I thought being a pacifist meant avoiding violence, and being opposed to it completely... 
But, I think I might sort of get where your coming from because I too had a shitty HS experience, people can really suck. 
Though -with that said- you may not have a problem in the act of killing someone (due to a fight or whatever else) based on what your saying, but who is to say you'd be fine 'sleeping at night'? It is a pretty intense thing, to take a life, and if you haven't done so already I find it sort of unjustified to say how you'd feel afterwards. 
I'm not trying to say your _feelings_ are unjustified though, because they most definitely are justified. I was just interested by your comment and felt compelled to respond, I hope I don't offend you... 'twas not my intention at all. :]


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## L (Aug 12, 2011)

elle vs said:


> ^^^L
> lol, I'm a little confused... I thought being a pacifist meant avoiding violence, and being opposed to it completely...


From googling "Define: Pacficist"


> *Definition for pacifist:*
> 
> 
> Web definitions:
> ...


I'm mostly just opposed to violence inside of myself, I try to stay pretty calm.



> Though -with that said- you may not have a problem in the act of killing someone (due to a fight or whatever else) based on what your saying, but who is to say you'd be fine 'sleeping at night'?


I tried killing a few people once, failed, kind of glad I failed too, I would have gone to jail... other than that though it didn't bother me, but then again, they deserved to die.



> It is a pretty intense thing, to take a life, and if you haven't done so already I find it sort of unjustified to say how you'd feel afterwards.


I suppose I should clarify a little, I don't mean innocent people that are good natured, I would likely feel bad if I killed someone like that. I mean the rotten people, the people that I'm thining of are back from high school, I would imagine it's the same thing as squashing a bug.



> I'm not trying to say your _feelings_ are unjustified though, because they most definitely are justified.


My feelings are rather selfish, so you would be justified in saying they are not justified.



> I was just interested by your comment and felt compelled to respond, I hope I don't offend you... not my intention at all. :]


Don't worry about it, I try to stay pretty chill nowadays:happy: and I doubt you really could offend me over the internet, I can just ignore your comment and scroll to the next one if you bother me.


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## elle vs (May 29, 2012)

L said:


> From googling "Define: Pacficist"
> 
> 
> I'm mostly just opposed to violence inside of myself, I try to stay pretty calm.
> ...


I'm glad I didn't bother you enough where you decided _not _to respond, I love a response!

So, I'd have to disagree with you when you say "they deserved to die"... not to make what happened to you in HS sound invalid, or rather, your feelings towards it as invalid... but_ I'm _really more the type of person who rejects all morals -because I don't see them as being based on any sort of fact/evidence. I am not religious because of this very same idea. I'm just leaning towards what your saying as being sort of a moral interpretation of your situation. 
Though, I am glad to read that you would likely not consider killing what you see to be as an innocent/kind-hearted person... 
And it is evident that you are not devoid of all empathy, especially because of the affection you feel towards animals, as you mentioned earlier. I'm assuming this has a lot to do with your negative experience in HS and you have somehow applied that to life in general... which makes perfect sense because it was part of your learning process for life, which is what HS really is for most people (it was for me -and I had many horrible experiences is HS as well- I just came to a different conclusion than yourself, which I find interesting). 
Anyway, again I hope you don't get angry with me, I am really just genuinely interested in reading the feelings/opinions on a subject from another person that I seem to feel quite differently about. :]]


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## FreeSpirit (Jun 1, 2011)

Everyone seems to think that everyone else is stupid.
And they would_ have_ to be STUPID to believe that.
So I guess we're all correct. We're each and everyone
of us just as dumb as a box of bricks. 

I think I'm smarter than the people around me because
they work so hard to pay for shit they don't need because
they're too busy working to pay for it to even use it.
I just don't buy anything.

But, then again, I can't even remember what I said
five seconds ago. Just today someone said to me,
"Did you just say, 'Here, have a snack?'" And I didn't
even know what they were talking about, because I
had spoken without even hearing myself. I could have
said ANYTHING.

Yea. Stupid all around.

As for morality, no one can agree on that long enough
to even compare one another. But that doesn't stop
us all from trying! Yes, I will judge you, hoe. ah ahahahahahahaaa


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## MNiS (Jan 30, 2010)

As horrible as it may sound, yes I am more more moral and intelligent than the typical person. I think a sense of morality and intelligence are interconnected so one necessarily follows from the other.


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## Razare (Apr 21, 2009)

I can define morality. Yet I can't judge with any great certainty whether other people are upholding it or not... it's not for me to say emphatically.

I can't define intelligence.

So all I have to offer is an opinion, that's based on something I can't determine, and upon something I can't define.

The options leave me scratching my head.


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## bromide (Nov 28, 2011)

I found this difficult to answer due to the morality aspect because morality suffers from being an incredibly subjective thing. I consider myself moral because I don't violate my personal ethical code. However, my morality is vastly different from a Christian fundamentalist. That sort of person would most likely base their morality on adherence to select biblical concepts in such a way that my tendencies towards being a pot-smoking-reproductive-rights-defending-premarital-sex-having-lefty-feminist would be seen as excruciatingly amoral to the extent that I'd be headed straight to hell. On the other hand, I see fundamentalist Christians ideas as oppressive and harmful so they are, by my ethical code, amoral. Who is right? Well me, I'm right. This is because it's my lens through which I am defining the parameters of morality. So yeah, I didn't vote.


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## Staffan (Nov 15, 2011)

BTW, if this topic interests you, feel free to answer what your moral foundations are: http://personalitycafe.com/general-psychology/104325-what-your-moral-foundations.html


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## Karolina (Sep 30, 2015)

In general, I'm more intelligent (proven during my studies) and definitely less moral than others.
However, there are some particularities. E. g. my emotional intelligence is a lot below average.


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## Cthulhu And Coffee (Mar 8, 2012)

More moral, not more intelligent.

I suppose intelligence might give me more to talk about with someone. That seems pretty irrelevant to me, though..just maybe not in practice. Because I think all things stem from morale, I tend to value it more than anything else.

What I know is, if someone valued intelligence more, I'd probably be running from them.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

Morality is a human construct, thus I can say I'm intelligent, but since I know morality is a construct, I cannot consider myself moral. I do what I believe is right because it is the right thing to do. I seek no rewards, nor fear no punishments for doing so.


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## ScientiaOmnisEst (Oct 2, 2013)

More moral: Nah, I try, but I'm probably about average here.

More intelligent: I did horrible on standardized tests, dropped out of college, apparently fail at self-teaching, just today realized I'm a shining example of the Dunning-Kruger effect, and have managed to score lower on IQ tests with each taking. So no, not more intelligent either.


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## SimplyRivers (Sep 5, 2015)

*Hipster, douche mode on*

I refuse to compare myself or others for your poll. We are all individuals with our own views on morality and intelligence. Therefore, one could not accurately assess their intelligence and morality.

Check your damn privilege!

*Hipster, douche mode off*

In all seriousness, I don't find myself more moral, nor intelligent. Thus, I'm very useless. Thanks for reminding me!


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## Wisteria (Apr 2, 2015)

Many users seem to think very highly of themselves...
I definitely do not think I am more intelligent than "others" meaning everyone. I choose the first one because when I was younger I developed morals quicker than the average child but my intelligence was lower than average. I think morals and intelligence balances more as you become older.


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