# How exactly is Narcissism correlated with Enneagram 3 and 4?



## Charus (May 31, 2017)

Narcissism is an excessive admiration of one-self, especialy when it comes to abilities, skills, physical appearance and success. By most of people, narcissism is viewed as barbaric in a sense is that it vandalises others for the sake of own gratification.

Often it is depicted that unhealthy 3 and 4's are depicted as being Narcissistic, why?


----------



## Eset (Jun 7, 2016)

If we go by Claudio Naranjo then type 7 would be the narcissistic one, by calling it the Narcissistic Personality in his Character & Neurosis book. He also points to type 8 having narcissistic qualities, but not nearly as much as type 7.

Here's some abstractions:

Type 7:

* *





Another group of traits that may be discerned as an expression of seduction may be called narcissistic. It comprises such descriptors as “exhibitionist,” “knows better,” “well informed,” “intellectually superior.” Sometimes this manifests as a compulsion to explain things, such as Fellini seeks to portray in movies where a narrator constantly puts into words everything that is taking place.

We may speak of a “seduction through superiority” which most usually takes the form of intellectual superiority, though (as in Moliere’s Tartuffe) it may involve a religious, good, and saintly image. The apparent lack of grandiosity in such saintly image is sometimes manifest even in the case of those who actively seek to assert their superiority, wisdom, and kindness. This falls in line with the fact that gluttons tend to form egalitarian brotherly relationships rather than authority relations. Because of this, their pretended superiority is implicit rather than explicit, masked over by a non-assuming, appreciative, and egalitarian style. As in the case of pleasingness, the superiority of ennea-type VII expresses only a half of the glutton’s experience; the other is the simultaneous perception of self as inferior, and the corresponding feelings of insecurity. As in ennea-type V, in both cases splitting allows the simultaneity of the two sub-selves, yet while it is the deprecated self that is in the foreground in type V, it is the grandiose self that has the upper hand in narcissistic personality. A psychological characteristic that is important to mention in connection with the gratified narcissism of the “oral-receptive” is charm, a quality into which converge the admirable qualities of ennea-type VII (giftedness, perceptiveness, wit, savoir-vivre, and so on) and its pleasing, non-aggressive, vaseline-like, cool, and contented characteristics. Through charm the glutton can satisfy his gluttony as effectively as a fisherman succeeds with bait, which implies that pleasing and charm are not just seductive but manipulative. Through his great charm the glutton can enchant others and even himself. Among his skills is that of fascination—hypnotic fascination even—and charm is his magic.

Along with the narcissistic facet of ennea-type VII it is necessary to mention the high intuition and frequent talents of type VII, which suggests that such dispositions may have favored the development of their dominant strategy (just as the adoption of the strategy has stimulated their development).




Type 8:

* *




Ennea-type VIII people are entertaining, witty, and often charming, yet not vain in the sense of being concerned with how they appear. Their seductiveness, bragging, and arrogant claims are consciously manipulative; they are geared to gaining influence and elevation in the power and dominance hierarchy. They also constitute a compensation for exploitativeness and insensitivity, a way of buying out others or making themselves acceptable despite traits of unaccountability, violence, invasiveness, and so on.




Source:
https://www.claudionaranjo.net/pdf_...s_english/character_neurosis_Book_english.pdf

Page 153 in the pdf is where he discusses type 7.


----------



## Deuce (Feb 16, 2021)

I think the link is how narcissistics are apparently crafting some sort of mask or persona to hide from their own eyes and from other's the inner child that is stuck as the psychological development of a traumatized 6 or so years old.
That's a process that in theory bear similarities to how E4 craft a unique image around their own sufferings and then get so identified to it they can remain fixated on a version of themselves that is past and no longer relevant. And to how E3 craft a image around their successes to over-adapt to others and to avoid connecting to (in their mind) less acceptable parts of themselves.
It doesn't mean at all that E4 and E3 are actually narcissists at all, it's just the slight overemphasis on having a persona (compared to a mind or body type) that evokes the similarity.


----------



## Ecchi (Jun 26, 2018)

Charus said:


> Often it is depicted that unhealthy 3 and 4's are depicted as being Narcissistic, why?


It's right there in the common labels attached to 3 and 4. "Achiever" and "Individualist."

Bragging about achievements.
Bragging about how much of an "individual" you are.


----------



## d e c a d e n t (Apr 21, 2013)

I think image-types in general have a certain narcissism to them...There's a need to compensate for the underlying shame that drives them. And if you let yourself get pulled down by insecurity, you will not be able to perform effectively, which is death for a 3. So they need to be able to believe in themselves enough to drown out the insecurity and keep going (ego-go as Ichazo calls it =)), which turns to narcissism when less than healthy. 4 is a bit different because they have the sense of being defective, but they also think of themselves as interesting and deep -- they must believe what they are expressing is truly meaningful, in order to keep expressing their individuality.


----------



## Grehoy (May 30, 2014)

d e c a d e n t said:


> I think image-types in general have a certain narcissism to them...There's a need to compensate for the underlying shame that drives them. And if you let yourself get pulled down by insecurity, you will not be able to perform effectively, which is death for a 3. So they need to be able to believe in themselves enough to drown out the insecurity and keep going (ego-go as Ichazo calls it =)), which turns to narcissism when less than healthy. 4 is a bit different because they have the sense of being defective, but they also think of themselves as interesting and deep -- they must believe what they are expressing is truly meaningful, in order to keep expressing their individuality.


It is not just about image.

Enneagram 4 and 5 measure their worth (specialness and intelligence, respectively) internally whereas 3 and 6 measure their worth (being admirable and praiseworthy; and being worthy of support and respect, respectively) externally.

So the former two are prone two what is called covert narcissism where as the letter two overt narcissism. In the former case, narcissistic supplies are internal objects (own feelings, thoughts about the self worth) whereas the latter two they are collected from others (others' feelings, thoughts about the self worth).


----------



## Electra (Oct 24, 2014)

Charus said:


> Narcissism is an excessive admiration of one-self, especialy when it comes to abilities, skills, physical appearance and success. By most of people, narcissism is viewed as barbaric in a sense is that it vandalises others for the sake of own gratification.
> 
> Often it is depicted that unhealthy 3 and 4's are depicted as being Narcissistic, why?


Here is how I think every enneagram type could theoreticly potentionally be labeled according to that disgnose in extreme cases:

Enneagram type seeks:
1. Status through order, self-disipline and productivity
2. Staus through good deeds
3. Status through mastery & efficiency
4. Status through originality
5. Status through knowing stuff
6. Status through security & reliability
7. Status through partyanimalism
8. Staus through domination and power
9. Status through values (?)

But take it with a grain of salt, as it is just a wild guess.


----------



## Grehoy (May 30, 2014)

Electra said:


> Here is how I think every enneagram type could theoreticly potentionally be labeled according to that disgnose in extreme cases:
> 
> Enneagram type seeks:
> 1. Status through order, self-disipline and productivity
> ...


What qualities and attitudes would make a person or action narcissistic though, regardless of type?


----------



## Electra (Oct 24, 2014)

Grehoy said:


> What qualities and attitudes would make a person or action narcissistic though, regardless of type?


I think a feeling of deeprooted shame is one factor that plays a role. That could be caused by a number of things. Then there is the narsissistic invronment which I theorize could be caused by a harsh life which makes one having to work hard to achieve exceptional results in order to make it or even survive, which also could cause jealousy or envy amongst others. Then there is a narscissistic upbringing and expectiations (which leads to the "who came first, the egg or the chicken-question") There are probably more reasons. Not so sure about genetics.


----------



## d e c a d e n t (Apr 21, 2013)

Grehoy said:


> It is not just about image.


I did not say it is just about image, however the image/heart center is what concerns itself with value and worth.


----------



## sinfinity (Dec 8, 2013)

Image types are indeed more to prone to narcissism as was mentioned above, cause narcissism in the most clinical sense of the word is rooted in shame. All image types attempt to compensate for their very fragile sense of self by becoming an idealized version of themselves and inflated ego to compensate. This is especially true for 3’s and 4s who tend towards overt and covert/vulnerable narcissism respectively. I know there’s some debate over whether 7s and even 8s can be classified as narcissistic because they do often exhibit some of the traits but their motivations and reasons for being that are different. They’re not rooted in shame the same way it would be for some with actual narcissitic perosnality disorder.


----------



## Full_fathom_4 (Jan 23, 2018)

Narcissism is fundamentally the act of grossly exaggerating one's self value, whether it's derived by compensation or gross arrogance, hidden or overt. The post above makes a decent opinion toward the point, however (as a DSM disorder), several 'types' are easily capable of meeting the threshold as well. Just wanted to stab that in there......


----------



## mia-me (Feb 5, 2021)

In case people aren't aware, almost every trait listed in the DSM is normal human behavior. How someone meets the criteria for a diagnosis of a personality disorder is to have all or most of the buckets of traits listed per disorder in magnified form, sufficient to having problems coping in life.

People can be vain and want positive social attention without being classified with a disorder, lol. Otherwise, the bulk of social media users, including members of PerC, should be diagnosed with NPD.


----------



## skyboy (Jul 6, 2021)

All types have a certain form of narcissism, even 9w1. We all suffer from it. To my knowledge, type 6 is the least narcissistic in outlook.

However, what we refer to as narcissism (narcissistic personality disorder) in our culture the way people talk spontaneously about it as victims for example, is mostly related to type 7, not to a heart type. This is related to the inferior/superior dichotomy that most of us confuse with heart type patterns at first. The personality of 7s creates a sort of dissociation between deep feelings of inferiority and illegitimacy, covered by a cheerful boasting, infantilization of others, showing off, manipulative and authoritarian style typical of unhealthy 7s. Sometimes even mythomania. Most 7s have a 6 wing, and narcissism often goes along with some interpersonal paranoia. Their tricks and adaptive intelligence find the cracks and vulnerabilities in others to pursue their agenda of looking superior, in control, or legitimate to the eyes of the surrounding. This is related to the adaptation instinct (name Ichazo uses instead of head center), the fight of 7s for position and visibility in a group of peers (like a family, a company, a state...).

Some of what helped me to understand this is here: Unveiling the Enneagram – Arica 3

Rob Ford is an extreme case and caricature . More benign examples include French presidents Macron and Sarkozy, or Sigmud Freud. (domineering geniuses are usully SX 7s), Lance Armstrong.... However not all 7s are narcissistic, far from it.


----------

