# Is my mother a Te or Fe dom?



## Deadly Decorum (Feb 23, 2014)

I can't stop thinking about this. She's not a healthy individual, so that can blur the truth of reality, but I want to know in order to strengthen our relationship, or to at least know how to *handle* her better. What is really needed is a break from each other, but my current situation cannot allow that, so what's a girl to do.

She is absolutely a Je dom and an Si-Ne. My original typing for her was ESFJ, but I'm beginning to reconsider. If I got her wrong... that could explain a wrong approach. Or why see life so differently.

*Why I thought Fe:*


* *




She seems to care *a lot* about social appropriateness. She is always asking me if what she's doing or saying is rude. She cares a lot about how she comes across to others. She modifies her behavior based on her surroundings... for instance, she tries to decide if it's appropriate to swear or not (and then sometimes she doesn't care if she said JESUS CHRIST around you and thinks you're too sensitive; depends on the context). She's always worried she has poor social skills or is "bad" with her approaches.

She hates rude people. She dislikes when others are inconsiderate. She'll snap at you if you're being mean. She places emphasis on being polite and caring with company.

She helps people.She wants to write a book about her life and preform TED talks solely to inspire and motivate them. Ensure they won't make her same mistakes. She gives people money or does things for them. It breaks her heart to see children on Christmas with no presents (she hung out with a bad crowd once). She'd do anything she could to help those people. She describes herself as too trusting and naïve and friendly, and often shammed by people just to help them (all her words; not mine). Her heart is easily moved.

She has trouble hiding how she feels. She'll flip you off behind your back; her face will be flaming red; her eyes as black as coal. She's quite the gossip.... but not out of curiosity. She just can't seal her lips. She needs to vent.

She is the ultimate queen of fake flattery. A master manipulator. She knows exactly what to say... lucrative and charming. An amazing liar. I remember once, my sister was crying due to esteem issues. Cue the high pitched baby voice. "Oh honey... you are so smart, and so nice, and caring..." I knew it was a crock of shit. Moments later, "Ah, I shut her up." She insincerely compliments people in this manner on the regular.

She is extremely charismatic, charming and good with people. Moves them on the regular.

She works as an esthetician. When she went to beauty school she hated everyone there. She labelled the teacher as a bipolar type... and then a sociopath. Her teacher was a big nasty bully out to get her. She intimidated her. Reminded me a lot of how my ESFJ grandmother handled her long track record as a waitress... there was always a bully. 

Once, when I was 17 and broke up with my boyfriend, his mother called me and invited me out to lunch. I wasn't going to talk about it, but she asked me. We had one of the most deepest and meaningful conservations I could have ever imagined. It was magnetic. In the car.... we just kept talking. She told me her secrets and I told her mine. She took me home and... the magnetic pull still existed. Oh boy, my mom was not having that shit. I was discussing some of my concerns in a nuanced way, and she actually agreed with me. I could tell it was not offending her. My mother got quiet, and I got a text from her asking me to ask her to leave. She felt it would have been "rude" to kick her out. So I did.

When she left... I got quite the lecture. I was bashing her son. It was incredibly rude and I probably hurt her feelings. She was probably lying and carrying on with the conversation to be nice. It was late and she found it disrespectful for her to stay. We got into a massive fight, of course.




*Why I'm considering Te dom instead:*


* *




I blame @arkigos. I posted a video of a girl I typed ESFJ... she writes books on manners, and discusses what you should or shouldn't say in a situation "Don't be mean.. but you can be sarcastic". He thought Te dom. Blew my mind. I wouldn't be reconsidering Fe dom if it weren't for that. 

She whines about everyone around her being far too sensitive (despite being an extremely sensitive person herself). There's been times where she'd made me cry, and she didn't think anything of it. I was being too touchy. Yet she also fears being rude or worries about hurting people's feelings.. ah contradictions. She's either deeply sorry she hurt you, or she's not at all, and then tells you to shut up. When she cares.... she will absolutely make it up to you.

Little patience. Procrastinates due to how much time certain things take, or that she can't get something right automatically. Her patience is especially tested with people. Her entire goal in life seems to be centered around short cuts and making things easier.

She always rants about the stupidity of those around her. People are dumb, as she says. If they would have done XYZ, they wouldn't be caught in a bind. 

Analysis is... not her bag. She rags on people (myself included) for overthinking.

She's annoyed when I over-apologize. I'm too nice, she says. "I tell people to fuck off. You don't. Work on it. Assert yourself more." 

Interestingly, she describes herself as a thinker. "I am a bit of a thinker... and I feel like I think more than most people. I am more intelligent than most, and I like to know things". I thought that was inferior Ti... but maybe she is right. Maybe she is T. Recently I made a massive error in her presence... I was panicked, because I knew it would irritate her. Her response? "You need to be better at your thinking".




*Some ambiguous things that could go either way (or tell you nothing)*


* *




She is a very emotional person. She cares a lot about what people think of her. She cries very often. She was quite the baby at my graduation. She has an explosive temper. The littlest of things set her off. More than most people I'd wager.

She doesn't like criticism, advice or suggestions, unless she asks. If it's not initiated, it rubs her the wrong way. Like when I used to give her advice on how to help out with my sis because she's a handful. "This is my child, so don't tell me how to raise her".

She doesn't like weirdness, strangeness or abnormality. She loathes anything goofy or silly. Self diagnoses people if they are not "normal". "Wow... what is wrong with them?"

She dislikes it when people don't share her opinions. She hates debate for this reason. Extremely offended/irritated if you disagree.

She makes sure to praise people. She told me growing up she didn't get enough, so she always complimented my grades, even if they weren't straight A's. "Well, at least you passed, and you put effort into it. I am proud of you!" She tried to take an interest in me and support me, commenting on my interests, my art projects, ect. She told me this is because she never received that when she was a kid, and she wanted me to have what she didn't. 

An interest in alternative medicine. "...But, it's a science see there's these machines and a test". You can't make any arguments against it. She won't listen. She thinks everyone else should be interested in it as well... she's very strident about it. "People have got to stop eating this crap! People need to take these supplements! Everyone needs to know this! Everyone would all be better if we did XYZ! BIG PHARAMA!" She even went as far as to tell people at a conference that she is completely against doctors, thinks they're undereducated (but not their fault because it's what their degree taught them), and won't see them again because they want to keep us sick for $$$$. Only neuropaths, she says.

She believes there is something more to this life... there has to be a God or an afterlife. We all have special gifts from God she says. Everyone needs to have faith or believe in something. She asked if I would attend church, because she regrets that she hasn't gone for years... but it has to be an alternative church with "fucked up people" or else it wouldn't work. I tried to tear that to shreds because... that made no sense... ? She yelled at me. Then asked if I would like to attend a church too. I said "...I'm more about our spirit and mind... freeing the soul.. maybe I could attend yoga practices to have that bonding with others." She looked at me like I was cold or loony. Also.. the "bond with others" as an attempt to appeal to her... I don't think it worked. So if I'm using Fe sentiments to get along with her when we don't see eye to eye in order to avoid conflict when she's a Te... I got it all wrong.

She's obsessed with perfection. Interior design? Oh fun. She cried because she couldn't get something right, and whined about how she wished she was like Martha Stewart. Once she carved "shit" on the wall with a screwdriver when she couldn't frame the picture perfectly. lol (probably Si)

She loves chasing after rich men. She doesn't believe I should get married due to her past experiences (Si) and warns me against it, but tells me to marry a rich man. She knows I'm attracted to musicians and said "Never marry one... you won't make much money. He won't care for you." I might have to hide my husband from her. Whoops. She has certainly been with men solely for their $$$$ and nothing else.

Speaking of rich men? One she was dating invited her on a trip. She was always worried her clothes wouldn't impress him, and got offended when he commented that they looked cheap. She spent hours looking through her closet... she had nothing to wear and he wouldn't accept her clothes because they weren't expensive enough! (I thought Fe). She cancelled the trip, had a huge meltdown... then went shopping and changed her mind.

If I told her about this theory... she wouldn't find it interesting at all. She'd probably say "I don't get it". Or she would ask if it teaches how to improve upon oneself or fix flaws and mistakes. That would be the only thing about this theory that would interest her. Practical application.




*Possible Te vs Ti difference between the two of us:*


* *




She invited me over to her house last week. Sure, I'll come over.

I was speaking very informally. Her: "Wow... you swear so much. It's too much. It is really unnecessary."

Me: "Why? They are just words. We decided that they are offensive... why do they have to be? I always wondered why we see them in a negative context. I know that shit means fecal matter, but why is fecal matter a non vulgar phrase, yet shit is automatically profane? What's the origin behind them anyway? Who decided this? Why can't "shit" just be a mundane expression?"

Her: "...Um, I really don't care. I don't like your mouth, so stop it. *changes the topic*"

Motivated me to study the etymology as well as the origins of the vulgar connotations behind swear words though. There are some interesting theories.




Well my description doesn't sound flattering. I also wrote too much. I'd love to know if I should reconsider Fe dom, or if I was right in my initial impression, so I info dumped. I also like telling stories.


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## FearAndTrembling (Jun 5, 2013)

They can be extremely hard to tell apart, because Fe is harsh as hell too. 

An ESTJ is exactly the kind of person who would write a book on manners. lol. Like Martha Stewart or something like that. I don't know if she is Te, but tons of women like her are. Barbara Walters may be too. ESTJ women are feminine and pleasant too. 

Like that show Sex and the City. I don't know the characters really, but they seem to be elitist Te women.


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## Deadly Decorum (Feb 23, 2014)

FearAndTrembling said:


> They can be extremely hard to tell apart, because Fe is harsh as hell too.
> 
> An ESTJ is exactly the kind of person who would write a book on manners. lol. Like Martha Stewart or something like that. I don't know if she is Te, but tons of women like her are. Barbara Walters may be too. ESTJ women are feminine and pleasant too.
> 
> Like that show Sex and the City. I don't know the characters really, but they seem to be elitist Te women.


It's not because she is harsh. I already know how harsh Fe can be.

I'm just wondering if her fears about being rude or unkind automatically equal Fe. I find that ESTJ women are very easy to mistype as feelers.


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## FearAndTrembling (Jun 5, 2013)

hoopla said:


> It's not because she is harsh. I already know how harsh Fe can be.
> 
> I'm just wondering if her fears about being rude or unkind automatically equal Fe. I find that ESTJ women are very easy to mistype as feelers.


No, not at all. Anyone can worry about that. Except ISFP.


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## Deadly Decorum (Feb 23, 2014)

FearAndTrembling said:


> No, not at all. Anyone can worry about that. Except ISFP.


I will say... I'm more fluid about social interaction than her. I loved reading books on manners as a kid. Then I realized that well... people are all individuals with their own unique desires, and manners don't always suit a situation. I try to read the context of what they really want, and so I change in order to submit.

...She does that too but it's less based on what the person would like as much as what she thinks is appropriate. She seems to approach it in a very black and white way. There are ways to act in this situation and ways to act in that situation.

I really could care less. There is no right way to act in a situation... it's all about the person themselves. I broke all the rules when I was criticizing my ex boyfriend. You're not supposed to do that; it is mean. ...Well if you just notice her expressions, how she really felt about all of that... you'd realize it was non-offensive. I'm starting to think she doesn't merge into people's emotional states as much as I thought... it's more pragmatic. Not me. Forget manners... what will make *you* happy? 

That doesn't really roll with her lol. That's inappropriate!


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

I can relate to the Te things too, if that means anything (which it probably doesn't since I might be a Te dom too XD)
I don't have that black and white thing though


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## Future2Future (Jun 28, 2015)

She sounds like a very, very unhealthy XSFJ to me. More than likely to be Fe dom, but then I'm no typing expert.


* *





I wondered why there was a dedicated thread but then mod went









While I went "OK, this is pretty normal"


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## Dangerose (Sep 30, 2014)

The way you described her Fe sounds almost like put-on Fe. Hard to judge from what you're saying (no offense but you sound a bit biased). ESTJ seems like a viable option. 

I have this bit:


> She whines about everyone around her being far too sensitive (despite being an extremely sensitive person herself). There's been times where she'd made me cry, and she didn't think anything of it. I was being too touchy. Yet she also fears being rude or worries about hurting people's feelings.. ah contradictions.


It could be an example of Fe existing without empathy. Or just a thing, I don't know.

I think Te can be stricter in terms of what is considered socially appropriate than Fe, because with Te...they're making little rules. With Fe it's more...natural.

I could see it either way at this point to be honest.

P.S. Ni Confirmation or Rejection shut down (


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## Future2Future (Jun 28, 2015)

Princess Langwidere said:


> P.S. Ni Confirmation or Rejection shut down (


Mod could have at least moved it to other sections (like the cognitive functions one) and even rename it, but closing it is a bit inappropriate. 
That would mean making a new thread each time we want to change subjects, which we do every 10 posts or so.


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## Barakiel (May 20, 2014)

ProtoCosmos said:


> Mod could have at least moved it to other sections (like the cognitive functions one) and even rename it, but closing it is a bit inappropriate.
> That would mean making a new thread each time we want to change subjects, which we do every 10 posts or so.


I do dearly hope we get to revive it, although if we make it in the Spam section, it'll be hard to be quoted, as quotes and thanks don't register on there.


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## Future2Future (Jun 28, 2015)

Barakiel said:


> I do dearly hope we get to revive it, although if we make it in the Spam section, it'll be hard to be quoted, as quotes and thanks don't register on there.


How about general discussions then, because the Spam section would be annoying.

(Let's not drift too much from the main subject, cause they might close this one too :suspicion


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## Dangerose (Sep 30, 2014)

I honestly found the thread immensely helpful, there were some really valuable discussions there. 
I don't want to spread out all over the forum in many threads it's cold and lonely out there










(I exaggerate of course but honestly it was a good and useful thread)
If anyone wants to revive it or anything be sure to tag me.


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## Barakiel (May 20, 2014)

As for the typing in question, Fe. There's almost no Te in her, I reckon. ESFJ is quite probable.


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## owlet (May 7, 2010)

hoopla said:


> I can't stop thinking about this. She's not a healthy individual, so that can blur the truth of reality, but I want to know in order to strengthen our relationship, or to at least know how to *handle* her better. What is really needed is a break from each other, but my current situation cannot allow that, so what's a girl to do.
> 
> She is absolutely a Je dom and an Si-Ne. My original typing for her was ESFJ, but I'm beginning to reconsider. If I got her wrong... that could explain a wrong approach. Or why see life so differently.
> 
> ...


I really think she's an Fe user. The way you said she asked about social appropriateness/her seeming preoccupation with it seems like unhealthy Fe expression.

She sounds like she might use some unhealthy Se too, but I'm not so sure about that...

( @Princess Langwidere I've reported the closure through the report post function. I recommend that anyone who isn't happy with the decision does the same thing (politely, of course!) I just don't remember there being a rule in place that doesn't allow for shifting away from the original topic...)


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## Future2Future (Jun 28, 2015)

Princess Langwidere said:


> I honestly found the thread immensely helpful, there were some really valuable discussions there.
> I don't want to spread out all over the forum in many threads it's cold and lonely out there
> 
> 
> ...


I can imagine hoopla grinding her teeth from all the unrelated stuff happening to her thread right now :rolling:


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## orbit (Oct 19, 2012)

FearAndTrembling said:


> No, not at all. Anyone can worry about that. Except ISFP.


... Wait, why don't ISFPs worried about coming across as harsh/unkind/rude? Only ISFPs?


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## Tad Cooper (Apr 10, 2010)

laurie17 said:


> I really think she's an Fe user. The way you said she asked about social appropriateness/her seeming preoccupation with it seems like unhealthy Fe expression.
> 
> She sounds like she might use some unhealthy Se too, but I'm not so sure about that...
> 
> ( @_Princess Langwidere_ I've reported the closure through the report post function. I recommend that anyone who isn't happy with the decision does the same thing (politely, of course!) I just don't remember there being a rule in place that doesn't allow for shifting away from the original topic...)


I agree with Fe as well, but then it's hard to tell with female Te doms because of social standards etc that they sometimes feel they have to abide by etc... How does she tend to act around people Vs with you?

(I reported it, made a complaint thread and PMed the moderator!)


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## Barakiel (May 20, 2014)

ProtoCosmos said:


> How about general discussions then, because the Spam section would be annoying.
> 
> (Let's not drift too much from the main subject, cause they might close this one too :suspicion


Sounds like a good idea. Though, considering I don't want to post it in the wrong thread, is that the General Chat folder? And, to be fair, it was pretty much an all out typing thread, plus philosophical and ethical arguments. :wink:


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## orbit (Oct 19, 2012)

Barakiel said:


> Sounds like a good idea. Though, considering I don't want to post it in the wrong thread, is that the General Chat folder? And, to be fair, it was pretty much an all out typing thread, plus philosophical and ethical arguments. :wink:


http://personalitycafe.com/general-chat/596538-fairy-tales.html#post19149450

I think she sounds like an ESTJ from my overall impression.


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## Dangerose (Sep 30, 2014)

ProtoCosmos said:


> I can imagine hoopla grinding her teeth from all the unrelated stuff happening to her thread right now :rolling:


Sorry hoopla!
Do inaccuracies bother your mother? For instance, if she was talking to someone with memory problems and they called their cat by the wrong name...how would she react? Would she correct them? Would her eyes widen in slight horror?
(sorry for the oddly specific question but this is something I have noticed in my experience with Te-doms)
Also, how does she act if someone is saying something embarrassing or committing a gaffe?


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## Future2Future (Jun 28, 2015)

Barakiel said:


> Sounds like a good idea. Though, considering I don't want to post it in the wrong thread, is that the General Chat folder? And, to be fair, it was pretty much an all out typing thread, plus philosophical and ethical arguments. :wink:


Exactly. 
It was sort of a clever and fun brainstorming thread that dealt with all kinds of typing, psychological and philosophical theories.


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## Deadly Decorum (Feb 23, 2014)

ProtoCosmos said:


> *She sounds like a very, very unhealthy XSFJ to me.*


Bolded with special sauce on the side for emphasis.

Why Fe rather than Te?
@Princess Langwidere I absolutely am biased. Not offensive; I'm glad you made that point. I'll explain my bias and also describe her a little more in a hopefully less biased way:


* *




I was aware when writing my original post that I have a bias and was worried it may blur objectivity. We all are extremely biased... it's the error of the human mind. Especially when trying to analyze yourself (it's been said that Jung believed it is difficult for people to type themselves objectively) or your friends or family. Those are the things we idealize or devalue, since those relationships are so close and personal to us. An observer would do a much better job at typing her than I.

When I was little I adored my mother. I'd do anything for her. We did have different approaches. At times I would speak and she would give me a strange look and say "Huh?" She couldn't seem to understand what I was trying to tell her. We were always similar in some ways but polar opposites in others. As I grew older I detected her unhealthiness in a way I was too young to understand... so there is probably some petty immaturity and arsenic sarcasm in there somewhere. I'm sure I sound bitter.

We're not getting along well. I wanted to explore our past relationship and pick apart ways in which we didn't see eye to eye. "Oh bullshit. We always got along until you turned 13." She's right... and I did say "We never understood each other." I exaggerated, surely. But then I wanted to pick at it more... explain how I used to try to talk to her about how even if we seemed to get along, we had different approaches (I often kept silent or just tried harder to impress her, so it never was mentioned to her when I was a child) and she changed the subject. I don't think it made much sense to her to look into that. It was that way then, and it's this way now was her approach.

She is very empathic though! I mentioned earlier she wants to change people's lives... she wants to conduct Ted talks and write a book to inspire and help people. She hates seeing others in pain... she lends people money if they're in a desperate situation. She feels like a sucker (her own words), like she gets duped because she enjoys helping people out and has been fooled and realized they were manipulating her. She absolutely loves helping people though. Especially if it resonates with her in some way. Or involves children. She gave money to a man who blew his money on drugs and couldn't afford to purchase gifts for Christmas. Broke her heart to imagine those kids without anything to open. She couldn't even afford it... and she gave them money regardless.

I believe what happens is sometimes she just thinks certain reactions are unjustified. "Oh... I hurt your feelings? *sarcasm*" She thinks some people just get bent over shape when they don't need to be, and sometimes it rubs me the wrong way. That's part of my bias.

As I said, she either doesn't care, or she's so impassioned. 16 and making dinner for Thanksgiving led to a mistake. My mom was irritated. She threw the dish away and didn't let me remake it myself. She told me that I was never going to live on my own because I fuck up a wet dream and make so many mistakes. How on Earth could I care for myself? I was deeply hurt as you could imaged. I knew it was all out of anger.... but I still cried. She felt pretty guilty. She told me it was all out of anger, and we hugged. She's not careless at all. She tried to be involved, get me to open up to her so I could trust her when I was a child. "You can always tell me anything. My mother always judged me and it really hurt, so I want you to have what I didn't." She just has a very short patience. I had to teach myself how to clean for instance, because she would get mad if I made an error whilst teaching me and took over. 

So again thank you for pointing out my error, and I hope this helps. Is it less biased? 




Also I know it shut down. I was waiting.... I knew it would die eventually one way or another whether through disinterest or a moderator smac kdown. 3 1/2 months that thread lasted. I can't believe they didn't catch on to the derail sooner. Were they asleep?


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## Deadly Decorum (Feb 23, 2014)

ProtoCosmos said:


> Exactly.
> It was sort of a clever and fun brainstorming thread that dealt with all kinds of typing, psychological and philosophical theories.


Honestly much better than anything you'd find in general chat.

It was so much fun.


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## Future2Future (Jun 28, 2015)

hoopla said:


> Honestly much better than anything you'd find in general chat.
> 
> It was so much fun.


Shh ! We silently... Relocated there... :th_cool:


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

ProtoCosmos said:


> Shh ! We silently... Relocated there... :th_cool:



What. Was I tagged. Did you invite me. Am I part of the family.
@hoopla My mother can be very critical and controlling when it comes to her home, plus she worries a lot about what others think, but she is no Te dom. In fact, she's not even an extrovert. I feel she's very much an ISFJ. I think the behavior you describe can be due to a lot of things, unhealthiness being the most obvious. 

The older we get, the more we realize our parents may have grown up in unstable homes or are dealing with their own demons. It sounds like your mom is insecure about the way she comes across to other people, may be insecure about a ton of other things. 

The guilt you mentioned is important. It sounds like your mother cares but hasn't mastered her own feelings yet. Sometimes it's hard dealing with someone who asserts themselves (she mentioned not getting along when you turned 13), questions you, and makes you feel even more insecure about yourself. 

You know your mom best and whether or not any of this applies. Just sharing my perspective because some of it sounded familiar.


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## Future2Future (Jun 28, 2015)

shinynotshiny said:


> What. Was I tagged. Did you invite me. Am I part of the family.


You were tagged, and probably had a free CD included.

@hoopla After reading it again, I think she's ESFJ.


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## Schizoid (Jan 31, 2015)

hoopla said:


> I can't stop thinking about this. She's not a healthy individual, so that can blur the truth of reality, but I want to know in order to strengthen our relationship, or to at least know how to *handle* her better. What is really needed is a break from each other, but my current situation cannot allow that, so what's a girl to do.
> 
> She is absolutely a Je dom and an Si-Ne. My original typing for her was ESFJ, but I'm beginning to reconsider. If I got her wrong... that could explain a wrong approach. Or why see life so differently.
> 
> ...



She is an Fe dom. ESTJs are Te dom and being the Te dom they are, they tend to value logic over emotions, whenever an emotion comes up, they will start rationalizing away that emotion, so you don't really see them exploding their emotions everywhere like the way Fe doms do. ESTJ is like that leader who is always able to remain calm in all situations and very few things tend to rattle them.

And you're probably an Fi-Te type yourself that's why you clashed with her  INFPs tend to clash badly with ExFJs due to the Fe-Fi differences, just saying.


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## Deadly Decorum (Feb 23, 2014)

laurie17 said:


> I really think she's an Fe user. The way you said she asked about social appropriateness/her seeming preoccupation with it seems like unhealthy Fe expression.
> 
> She sounds like she might use some unhealthy Se too, but I'm not so sure about that...
> 
> ( @<span class="highlight"><i><a href="http://personalitycafe.com/member.php?u=164034" target="_blank">Princess Langwidere</a></i></span> I've reported the closure through the report post function. I recommend that anyone who isn't happy with the decision does the same thing (politely, of course!) I just don't remember there being a rule in place that doesn't allow for shifting away from the original topic...)


Where are you seeing unhealthy Se? That's a marvel. The Si/Ne is extremely obvious to me, but I didn't get into it much.

I absolutely thought she was an Fe type. That was the first thing that sprung to mind when first introduced to the theory. But as @tine said.... Te dom women probably fake Fe due to conditioning. Or filter Fe ideas through Te. They look Fe at the surface, but it's all an illusion. It's really about practical application rather than value.

See, I typed this women as an ESFJ:






Because she cares about manners and you see her here discussing how you just should not ever be mean. But you can be sarcastic! I thought it was Fe.... but ESTJ was offered.

So then... maybe I got my mother all wrong. And I was watching Daria clips on youtube:






See.... Daria's mom? Helen? She's an ESTJ. What she said in that clip is exactly something my mother would say. If people had never seen that show before, they might mistype her as an Fe based on that quote alone. Smile, because that's what people expect of you. It's not appropriate to look stoic in your school pictures, and you'll be judged if you don't modify your behaviors. That's how my mother was. Wear make-up, because you'll be judged if you don't, and it shows that you carry yourself to wear it.

So she could very well be a Te dom with some estrogen and cultural expectations making her look like a Feeler. Her mother is an ESFJ and they definitely clash and act differently in some ways. Examples:


* *




The way they approach social appropriateness seems so different to me. I seem to understand how her mother just wants to help even if she's bumbling or overbearing, and emphasize with it better... because it really warms my heart that she cares, even if she does too much for the family sometimes. Drives my mother mad. "God if she would just leave things alone and stop fucking with things..."

Like once she bought her some food... just to be nice. I thought it was sweet. "OMG I CAN'T EAT ANY OF THIS FOOD I'M ON A DIET. WHY CAN'T I BUY MY OWN FOOD I AM A GROWN UP."

I also find her mother seems to get upset that others don't appreciate the kind things she's done... like when she was a waitress, she always would rant because she provides excellent service. She works so hard and all those people are so unfair and inconsiderate to not leave a massive tip. Aren't they aware of all the nice things she's done for them. My mother and I both agreed that was illogical because most people tip based on the check... but I really empathized with her. Or when she tips excessive amounts of money at restaurants... I think it's impractical sure, but I understand why. My mom just doesn't care. All she can see is a ridiculous person from all angles.




She could still be an Fe dom, sure. I just really want to rule out Te just in case. Especially because it would help how I structure myself around her to keep peace. There's no way she's anything other than an ESxJ though.

@OvalCat didn't you read the other thread I made about her? Lol. You didn't offer a typing then. I wonder why.

@tine She's actually a lot nicer around other people I find. Then she will call me or a close friend and rant about them behind their back. I also find that she dumps problems on me or treats me more naturally (which can be caustic) rather than around company... because I happen to be weak willed and take it. lol. Not that she doesn't love me or isn't kind to me or anything. But yeah she acts differently around her friends than I do. 

@Princess Langwidere Well... I'm not my mother but I don't think that would bother her if she knew what you meant or it was more convenient. It would bother me regardless of context because inaccuracies make me cringe.

Example, she called a particular label I was diagnosed with by the more general and well known term. "Um wrong it's really X". "I don't care if it's X; I'll call it Y because at the end of the day it's still neurological." That's where I can see Te maybe.

Oh boy when people are embarrassing... big red face and you can tell it's bothering her.... though she'll put on her baby voice and fool people and then rant about it for hours in private company after wards. That's what I mean by gossip. 

She's kinda tricky. She at the very least is a Je dom.


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## Dangerose (Sep 30, 2014)

hoopla said:


> I also find her mother seems to get upset that others don't appreciate the kind things she's done... like when she was a waitress, she always would rant because she provides excellent service. She works so hard and all those people are so unfair and inconsiderate to not leave a massive tip. Aren't they aware of all the nice things she's done for them. My mother and I both agreed that was illogical because most people tip based on the check... but I really empathized with her. Or when she tips excessive amounts of money at restaurants... I think it's impractical sure, but I understand why. My mom just doesn't care. All she can see is a ridiculous person from all angles.


Seems kinda like a SP 2ish thing to do.
Any clue to your mother's Enneagram? that might help)


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## Deadly Decorum (Feb 23, 2014)

Schizoid said:


> She is an Fe dom. ESTJs are Te dom and being the Te dom they are, they tend to value logic over emotions, whenever an emotion comes up, they will start rationalizing away that emotion, so you don't really see them exploding their emotions everywhere like the way Fe doms do. ESTJ is like that leader who is always able to remain calm in all situations and very few things tend to rattle them.
> 
> And you're probably an Fi-Te type yourself that's why you clashed with her  INFPs tend to clash badly with ExFJs due to the Fe-Fi differences, just saying.


Why do you think I am an Fi-Te type? Do you have an argument that isn't just "Your mom is an Fe dom and the two of you clash, so I think you are an Fi-Te"? I would love some solid arguments if that's your impression.

Yes, the fact she is expressive and explosive with emotion is why I thought Fe. But remember... cultural and social conditioning. 

I also think your example of an ESTJ is extremely stereotypical and shallow. I wouldn't say Te doms are unfettered... maybe they are, but Te seems to have very little patience from my experience. When people have no common sense they are quite abrasive and critical. I also think it's a mistake to believe emotional people cannot be T types... but then again just how expressive she is made me consider Fe.


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## Barakiel (May 20, 2014)

@hoopla, I know you didn't respond to my calling her an ESFJ, but here's why I think she's Fe and not Te.

She's very praise prone, and very authoritarian in what people should do. Most of the ambiguous things you stated are Fe and not Te. :happy:


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## Deadly Decorum (Feb 23, 2014)

shinynotshiny said:


> What. Was I tagged. Did you invite me. Am I part of the family.
> 
> @hoopla My mother can be very critical and controlling when it comes to her home, plus she worries a lot about what others think, but she is no Te dom. In fact, she's not even an extrovert. I feel she's very much an ISFJ. I think the behavior you describe can be due to a lot of things, unhealthiness being the most obvious.
> 
> ...


You could be a psychologist. You have such a knack at understanding people and explaining your findings in a tender way.

I was worried some of what I mentioned either is applicable to everyone, has nothing to do with type, or is highly biased based on hard feelings.

You're 100% on the money. She definitely has esteem issues. She's had anger problems since she was a child (she kicked her teacher on the first day of kindergarten... where it all began) and she told me she felt like people made her out to be a bad kid. She also was rather impulsive in her younger years and suffered through two reckless marriages. She doesn't enjoy being criticized ("Don't analyze me!") or being given advice, so when I was at that rebellious stage and questioned her authority, she was upset. I'm sure all of these things have contributed.

I am aware that type alone is not going to explain her behaviors, our conflicting relationship, or her feelings. Those are separate. I just like considering all factors. :laughing:

@Princess Langwidere I don't but if I had to guess, 6w7. She's nervous, intimidated by authority/getting in trouble, and fearful of mistakes and failure. Massive perfectionist. Rebellious. But also loves to travel, to shop, to have fun. She's really all about having fun. Making jokes, singing silly songs, dancing in her PJs. Exploring stuff. Trying new things (though she can be a bit reluctant and risk-adverse due to Si). She probably has 3 in her tritype.

Also... the tipping thing was her mother, not my mother. I was trying to highlight how we perceive that behavior in different ways.

Don't take that typing seriously; it's too half assed.

@Barakiel she's not that authoritarian. :tongue: She rarely grounded me for starters.


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## Barakiel (May 20, 2014)

hoopla said:


> @Barakiel she's not that authoritarian. :tongue: She rarely grounded me for starters.


I'm too lazy to quote stuff, but the general feeling I got is that she was Fe rather than Te. Even the stuff that doesn't seem openly Fe, such as her seeking a rich husband, has some Fe elements to it. That's just me, though, I've been wrong before. :happy:


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## Deadly Decorum (Feb 23, 2014)

Barakiel said:


> I'm too lazy to quote stuff, but the general feeling I got is that she was Fe rather than Te. Even the stuff that doesn't seem openly Fe, such as her seeking a rich husband, has some Fe elements to it. That's just me, though, I've been wrong before. :happy:


Ew. I hate the idea of marrying a man just for his money. ...Sure it may be easier, but it makes me want to puke.

I try to save as much money as I can so when I graduate college and find out maybe I won't make much money through my degree (psychology rarely makes much) I can still be independent.

But hey, it's a scary world out there. We all need some ca-ching sometimes, and if it would help me with opportunities, maybe. I would really have to like them though.

She straight up dated a guy just for a free mac book. I don't think I could do that tbh. He dumped her when he figured out her angle.

Taking advantage of people... I'm too weak willed and soft tbh. Not that I'm never mean or haven't hurt someone in a horrendous way. Absolutely. That's just not my style. :wink:


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

hoopla said:


> You could be a psychologist. You have such a knack at understanding people and explaining your findings in a tender way.
> 
> I was worried some of what I mentioned either is applicable to everyone, has nothing to do with type, or is highly biased based on hard feelings.
> 
> ...


You're too nice 

I've felt the same way and wondered "Maybe this is just what everyone deals with? This is normal?" but even if it is, we should be able to talk about it. For what it's worth, I think you're dealing with a sensitive situation and you're doing the right thing by trying to understand how to make it better 

I think knowing her type would help. If she's Fe dom, she might need external sources of validation or encouragement. Knowing where to start, at the very least.


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## Barakiel (May 20, 2014)

hoopla said:


> Ew. I hate the idea of marrying a man just for his money. ...Sure it may be easier, but it makes me want to puke.
> 
> I try to save as much money as I can so when I graduate college and find out maybe I won't make much money through my degree (psychology rarely makes much) I can still be independent.
> 
> ...


I don't see it as repulsive, per say, just rather pointless. Of course, if I was in an arranged marriage, that's different, but investing all that effort just for money seems... stupid.

Apple computers are crap, so jokes on her. :laughing:


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## Deadly Decorum (Feb 23, 2014)

Barakiel said:


> I don't see it as repulsive, per say, just rather pointless. Of course, if I was in an arranged marriage, that's different, but investing all that effort just for money seems... stupid.
> 
> Apple computers are crap, so jokes on her. :laughing:


I think it is beyond cruel and unfair.

Of course, it depends on the context.

If it a causal relationship, and the person providing the loot doesn't mind, why not. See I have no problem for example, with casual sex. If the two individuals are aware it's just casual and has nothing to do with feelings, have some fun. But when one person really wants a commitment and you're just using them, find someone who wants what you want.

However, those are their finances. They have things they need to buy too. They have themselves to look after. Consider that. Consider that they may have deep feelings for you and are buying gifts as a gesture. Don't just take things if there's a deeper meaning behind what they are giving. And again... they also have bills to pay and their own personal financial desires.

The worst part... the guy in question had MS. I can't even imagine. People with MS often have fears no one will accept such a commitment, so to be used like that? It must have really taken a toll.

She probably feels guilty about it in retrospect. She has a tendency to sort of jump into things without thinking just for the reward.

Then again this is basically me in a relationship so:

(I apologize the video has terrible editing; only one I could find)






Thank you for your words @shinynotshiny


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## Barakiel (May 20, 2014)

hoopla said:


> I think it is beyond cruel and unfair.
> 
> Of course, it depends on the context.
> 
> ...


I suppose I'm missing some big thing here, like @Pressed Flower getting angry with me over my blase treatment of issues she considers important. :happy:

I wouldn't personally do it, but I've used people's affections before, so I'm not in a fair place to judge her for doing so. Granted, I didn't do it for money or gifts, but that's a contextual point.

Hm, she may have some inferior Se, I hear they tend to jump into things without concern for the consequences.

Lol, even after just watching the Spongebob movie that came out recently, and that I haven't watched the cartoon in ages, that was still hilarious. :laughing:


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## Deadly Decorum (Feb 23, 2014)

Barakiel said:


> Lol, even after just watching the Spongebob movie that came out recently, and that I haven't watched the cartoon in ages, that was still hilarious. :laughing:


SpongeBob never gets old. It's just as funny as it was when I was a kid, albeit for different reasons. They were able to take general occurrences older people can relate to (in this case dating) and make it funny. They just made the overall atmosphere whimsy and zany to amuse the kiddos, but even that was pulled off so well that it's not grating when you re-watch it as you age.

I want to change my username to Hubbub though so people won't misinterpret Hoopla as a SpongeBob reference.

Derailing my own thread whoops.


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## Barakiel (May 20, 2014)

hoopla said:


> SpongeBob never gets old. It's just as funny as I was as a kid, albeit for different reasons. They were able to take general occurrences older people can relate to (in this case dating) and make it funny. They just made the overall atmosphere whimsy and zany to amuse the kiddos, but even that was pulled off so well that it's not grating when you re-watch it as you age.
> 
> I want to change my username to Hubbub though so people won't misinterpret Hoopla as a SpongeBob reference.
> 
> Derailing my own thread whoops.


It's funny, I watched the movie in cinemas with a few friends, and seeing the characters do their usual wacky shit was incredible, a sort of nostalgia filled rollercoaster. I will say that the CGI wasn't too impressive, but most of the movie is in 2D, so it doesn't really matter. Also, dolphin Timelord. :kitteh:


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## Dangerose (Sep 30, 2014)

My Te-dom friend seems to enjoy suggesting to men that she might want to be in a committed romantic relationship down the road while privately admitting to me and her friends that she doesn't plan on it, while accepting jewellery and other gifts from them. She does not seem to see anything wrong with it and insists she's 'just having fun' and under the impression that she's just being clever for getting ahead

Honestly I have no doubt that _she's_ having fun, my thought is more that it's maybe not the most fun to be led on and buying semi-expensive gifts and meals for someone in the false hope that they'll develop feelings for you

Then again, I think she's an Enneagram 3 which is disconnected with its effects on others.

Not sure if that's relevant but it's a similar behavior.


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## Deadly Decorum (Feb 23, 2014)

Princess Langwidere said:


> My Te-dom friend seems to enjoy suggesting to men that she might want to be in a committed romantic relationship down the road while privately admitting to me and her friends that she doesn't plan on it, while accepting jewellery and other gifts from them. She does not seem to see anything wrong with it and insists she's 'just having fun' and under the impression that she's just being clever for getting ahead
> 
> Honestly I have no doubt that _she's_ having fun, my thought is more that it's maybe not the most fun to be led on and buying semi-expensive gifts and meals for someone in the false hope that they'll develop feelings for you
> 
> ...


The motivations mirror my mothers.

Or of course... the guy she was with at a point.... "He gives her money, he's supposed to provide money to me now so I can pay this bill he might not give me money he is a jerk he always did before!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Hot damn did I cringe.

He never owed you money in the first place. He has every right to decide what he wants to do with it; he doesn't owe you a dime. He wouldn't if the two of you were married.


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## Peter (Feb 27, 2010)

hoopla said:


> I can't stop thinking about this. She's not a healthy individual, so that can blur the truth of reality, but I want to know in order to strengthen our relationship, or to at least know how to *handle* her better. What is really needed is a break from each other, but my current situation cannot allow that, so what's a girl to do.
> 
> She is absolutely a Je dom and an Si-Ne. My original typing for her was ESFJ, but I'm beginning to reconsider. If I got her wrong... that could explain a wrong approach. Or why see life so differently.
> 
> ...



You focus too much on one function. Try to understand the other functions too. Best is to focus on just the first 2 functions. With that you have the whole package. But the third function is still of importance and this is why you can get confused. The third function often shows up in situations where the first 2 functions can't really conclude anything. For example in an INTJ, Ni-Te-Fi,... When a moral decision has to be made, The Ni - Te combination doesn't have what it takes to make any decision,... Fi jumps in here. But remember, the function of Fi in an INTJ comes out as a combination of Ni-Te-Fi,.... functions are never stand alone. Fi in an INFP is not comparable with Fi in an INTJ.

So the best way to find out is to find the first 2 functions in the right order while realizing that the third function is often the reason for doubt about the first 2.


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## Deadly Decorum (Feb 23, 2014)

Peter said:


> You focus too much on one function. Try to understand the other functions too. Best is to focus on just the first 2 functions. With that you have the whole package. But the third function is still of importance and this is why you can get confused. The third function often shows up in situations where the first 2 functions can't really conclude anything. For example in an INTJ, Ni-Te-Fi,... When a moral decision has to be made, The Ni - Te combination doesn't have what it takes to make any decision,... Fi jumps in here. But remember, the function of Fi in an INTJ comes out as a combination of Ni-Te-Fi,.... functions are never stand alone. Fi in an INFP is not comparable with Fi in an INTJ.
> 
> So the best way to find out is to find the first 2 functions in the right order while realizing that the third function is often the reason for doubt about the first 2.


Did you not see that I mentioned I have decided she is an Si-Ne?

I didn't explore that on this thread because I am already 100% certain. That's why I'm focusing on Te vs Fe alone. Knowing that she is Si-Ne has not helped me discern between Te vs Fe. She's certainly a Je dom though (originally thought Fe dom, but may be wrong due to cultural conditioning and femininity, which is why I doubt).


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## Schizoid (Jan 31, 2015)

hoopla said:


> Why do you think I am an Fi-Te type? Do you have an argument that isn't just "Your mom is an Fe dom and the two of you clash, so I think you are an Fi-Te"? I would love some solid arguments if that's your impression.
> 
> Yes, the fact she is expressive and explosive with emotion is why I thought Fe. But remember... cultural and social conditioning.
> 
> I also think your example of an ESTJ is extremely stereotypical and shallow. I wouldn't say Te doms are unfettered... maybe they are, but Te seems to have very little patience from my experience. I also think it's a mistake to believe emotional people cannot be T types... but then again just how expressive she is made me consider Fe.



You just don't strike me as an aux Fe type like @ angelcat does. I saw a few of your posts on here and I noticed that you have this tendency to value honesty more than harmony, for example, there are times when you can get into a debate here without caring about the atmosphere and people's feelings around you. Like there was once when you were debating in alittlebear's thread and you ended up getting into a conflict with everyone over there. Sometimes, you can get really engrossed in your debate and you never realized how people are feeling until they pointed it out to you. And this is why I don't think you are an aux Fe type, you seemed to value honesty more than maintaining a harmonic atmosphere. But just take my opinion with a grain of salt, because I don't know you very well and this is just based on my impression of your posts here. 

And I didn't say that emotional people cannot be T types, I am saying that T types tend to value logic more than emotions.
T type can be emotional, and F type can be logical. But what differentiates a T type from an F type is that a T type feel emotions, but they don't always act on those emotions impulsively. They will rationalize through those emotions first, and only then will they act on those emotions. 

A few things that tipped me off that she is an Fe type is these:



> She dislikes it when people don't share her opinions. She hates debate for this reason. Extremely offended if you disagree.


Why would a Te dom get offended when people disagree with them? In the mind of a Te dom, opinions are nothing but logic, there are no personal emotions involved in logic, so why would people get offended over logic? This doesn't make sense. Does getting upset over different opinions help show the other party that their logic is wrong and your logic is right? No. Emotions are unproductive in a debate and it's silly to get upset just because someone has different opinion as you. If someone has different opinion as you and if you feel that your opinion are right, then show them the evidence why you think your logic is right and why you think their logic is wrong. This is what goes through the mind of a Te dom during debate. 




> She whines about everyone around her being far too sensitive





> She always rants about the stupidity of those around her. People are dumb, as she says.





> She hates rude people. She dislikes when others are inconsiderate.





> She is the ultimate queen of fake flattery. A master manipulator. She knows exactly what to say... lucrative and charming. An amazing liar. I remember once, my sister was crying due to esteem issues. Cue the high pitched baby voice. "Oh honey... you are so smart, and so nice, and caring..." I knew it was a crock of shit. Moments later, "Ah, I shut her up." She insincerely compliments people in this manner on the regular.



Sounds like an unhealthy Fe type. Why would an Fi type rant about everybody around them? This world is made up of people who are different from us. We might not always agree with them, but just because we disagree with them doesn't mean they are wrong. We can't always expect everyone to be similar to us. People are allowed to act the way they like, to think the way they like, to speak the words they like. 
In other words, people should always be allowed to be themselves in all situations. We shouldn't judge people just because they are different from us, we should learn how to accept people the way they are instead of judging them and trying to change them. It's also important to consider why people act the way they do and not just accept their actions at face value. But if let's say I am really really unable to tolerate those people's presence, I will just avoid those people as much as possible. I believe that one should always stay true to our emotions at all times, so I won't bother to fake a smile and give fake compliments to people I dislike, in fact, I won't even bother to go all the way out to interact with that person at all and I will try to stay as far away from that person as possible. I hate fake people, so I will never be a fake person myself. I also don't believe in changing people or forcing my values onto people either, so avoiding the people I dislike would be the best way to tackle them.This is what goes through the mind of an Fi type.


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## fair phantom (Mar 5, 2015)

I may be biased because of the healthy ESTJ women in my life, but she sounds like an unhealthy ESFJ. It sounds like she has a lot of the same issues as my mother does, oh man.

Female ESTJs can indeed be hard to spot because of social conditioning, but I don't think that is what is going on here. Te-doms are usually interested in and receptive to evidence. They can believe in strange things, but in the case of the ESTJs I know, they believe because they can point to something from their experience. One I know believes in miracles because a family member survived a barn explosion that probably should have killed him. And I think ESTJs, even when they are rigid and unlikely to change their opinion, wouldn't change the subject like she did. That sounds like inferior Ti to me...she is uncomfortable with having to explain her reasoning. I think an unhealthy ESTJ (because let's face it, whatever type she is, it is unhealthy) would want to bully their opponent into submission (or at least silence) with their reasoning. Her inconsistency regarding marriage also strikes me as inferior Ti.

(funny thing though: my ESTJ sister also warned me against musicians, but she did so in a jocular mood and her reasoning had to do with them always being on the road).


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## Future2Future (Jun 28, 2015)

fair phantom said:


> I may be biased because of the healthy ESTJ women in my life, but she sounds like an unhealthy ESFJ. It sounds like she has a lot of the same issues as my mother does, oh man.


I actually deduced ESFJ based on my brother's unhealthy attitude :laughing: 

Everyone's got to have at least one messed up SJ in their families for sure, they're *the *problem magnets. :suspicion:


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

ProtoCosmos said:


> I actually deduced ESFJ based on my brother's unhealthy attitude :laughing:
> 
> Everyone's got to have at least one messed up SJ in their families for sure, they're *the *problem magnets. :suspicion:


-3 Approval


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

ProtoCosmos said:


> I actually deduced ESFJ based on my brother's unhealthy attitude :laughing:
> 
> Everyone's got to have at least one messed up SJ in their families for sure, they're *the *problem magnets. :suspicion:


Just SJ?
My theory is that everyone's got a crazy ESFJ 2 XD


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## Future2Future (Jun 28, 2015)

shinynotshiny said:


> -3 Approval


I have at least four so that makes plus one.


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## Deadly Decorum (Feb 23, 2014)

Schizoid said:


> You just don't strike me as an aux Fe type like @ angelcat does. I saw a few of your posts on here and I noticed that you have this tendency to value honesty more than harmony, for example, there are times when you can get into a debate here without caring about the atmosphere and people's feelings around you. Like there was once when you were debating in alittlebear's thread and you ended up getting into a conflict with everyone over there. Sometimes, you can get really engrossed in your debate and you never realized how people are feeling until they pointed it out to you. And this is why I don't think you are an aux Fe type, you seemed to value honesty more than maintaining a harmonic atmosphere. But just take my opinion with a grain of salt, because I don't know you very well and this is just based on my impression of your posts here.


I disagree with the notion that honesty is Fi. I think honesty is Fe, or at the very least Je. Think about how extroverted the concept of honesty is. You're letting someone know exactly how you feel or think about a situation. Ji cannot do that. I'm not saying Fi types are liars, but they are immensely serious (or sarcastic), private people. It's hard to know what they're feeling or what they value. When they are blunt or honest, it's usually registered through Te.

Also, if everyone around an Fe type is being reprehensible or wrong, Fe is not going to care about the atmosphere. Fe is going to rip you a new one for being so horrible. That's why Fe types almost always mistype themselves as Fi.

I absolutely care about other people's feelings. Too much actually. And I think I hold back a lot more than people realize. I'm good at suppressing my real opinion and offering another one to keep the peace. Which indicates a value of harmony. Though you are right. Sometimes I criticize without realizing that it is rude or offensive to others, because it's plainly clear to me. I think that's Ti rather than Fi. Or other times I will keep my opinions to myself because others won't take it well (I am horrible at dealing with anger) and then finally I crack and crank it out. And then I bully myself for being so rude and terrible. I think that's what you're witnessing. 

I'm always torn between saying it like it is, or mincing the truth to make people happy or to avoid stepping on their toes. My Ti and Fe are always in war, unless Fe is asleep and I'm in Ti mode and come across as detached/clinical. Or I'm so upset I'm nothing but Fe.

I mean, @Barakiel compared me to @Pressed Flowers for getting involved with the Feelings of rich men... and everyone who knows @Pressed Flowers knows she is an Fe dom. That whole rant I made... it was full of Fe... with a bit of Ti in there. 

I have considered that my Ti may be stronger than my Fe. I've been thinking about it a lot... I can relate to inferior Fe in a way, but the idea of being an INTP? Or even a thinker? Doesn't feel right for many reasons. But I may explore it.




Schizoid said:


> And I didn't say that emotional people cannot be T types, I am saying that T types tend to value logic more than emotions.
> T type can be emotional, and F type can be logical. But what differentiates a T type from an F type is that a T type feel emotions, but they don't always act on those emotions impulsively. They will rationalize through those emotions first, and only then will they act on those emotions.


Yes, but Te types have Fi, and in an unhealthy individual like my mother, it could possibly be that her Fi is freaking her out, and she hasn't dealt with it properly. Go watch a Trisha Paytas video. She's an ESTJ. She has blatant and obvious self esteem issues. She describes herself as very emotional and is definitely impulsive. I think her overall unhealthiness contributes. I do think she is an Fi rather than an Fe though... her feelings are deeply ruminated, but she can't handle them well, so she explodes. When your inferior is not dealt with, it's a mess, and can make Thinkers (especially women) look like Feelers. Trisha is a great example of that.

Also women just almost always look like feelers. Not always... but very often. I thought Jenna Marbles was a Feeler for the longest time (ESFP):






Until I realized she is an ESTJ. She's definitely an Fi type... right in the video she tells you she ruminates her feelings. She also looks very Feelery... she is often mistaken as a Feeler (Or an ENTP which I don't understand at all). 

She discusses anger, disappointment, and getting her feelings hurt. I think she's also an example of a very healthy ESTJ female. And... she does strike me as the type who would, out of anger, call women bitches. Or at the very least, did so when she was younger. In the video she describes how her feelings used to get hurt easily, but now she doesn't care when others are talking behind her back. My mom does care. Once she was driving whilst on her cellphone and someone told her to get off her phone. She was upset for three days. It was all she could talk about. Nothing I could say would console her. So that could be Fe as she is very easily hurt, but maybe it's just self esteem issues and an unhealthy Fi. Does she ruminate her feelings? She doesn't seem to... but hmm.



Schizoid said:


> Why would a Te dom get offended when people disagree with them? In the mind of a Te dom, opinions are nothing but logic, there are no personal emotions involved in logic, so why would people get offended over logic? This doesn't make sense. Does getting upset over different opinions help show the other party that their logic is wrong and your logic is right? No. Emotions are unproductive in a debate and it's silly to get upset just because someone has different opinion as you. If someone has different opinion as you and if you feel that your opinion are right, then show them the evidence why you think your logic is right and why you think their logic is wrong. This is what goes through the mind of a Te dom during debate.


I may have been projecting Fe into my mother. She gets very irritated though... and I think she often is just blown away at what she considers stupidity. This is the way it is. If she says something and I try to pick nits at it, she is volatile. She seems to be this way the most around me though... and as a healthy Ti user, this is something to consider. Like the other day she was telling me about something called MMS, which is classified as a bleaching agent. "Oh... bullshit. The FDA touts that. Do you believe everything you read online?" She constantly thinks I'm trying to pick an argument... and will say "We're just going to fight. You are such an arguer! We just don't agree". I thought this was inferior Ti. Maybe it is. Maybe it's a Te getting frustrated with Ti for picking nits at her logic.



Schizoid said:


> Sounds like an unhealthy Fe type. Why would an Fi type rant about everybody around them?


I don't know if Fi would. Te certainly would. Ranting and raving is a Je thing. With Te.... they often find as if they are surrounded by idiots, who are clueless and can't get with the program. You're going to find a lot of Te doms who rant about other people due to that.



Schizoid said:


> This world is made up of people who are different from us. We might not always agree with them, but just because we disagree with them doesn't mean they are wrong. We can't always expect everyone to be similar to us. People are allowed to act the way they like, to think the way they like, to speak the words they like.
> In other words, people should always be allowed to be themselves in all situations. We shouldn't judge people just because they are different from us, we should learn how to accept people the way they are instead of judging them and trying to change them. It's also important to consider why people act the way they do and not just accept their actions at face value. But if let's say I am really really unable to tolerate those people's presence, I will just avoid those people as much as possible. I believe that one should always stay true to our emotions at all times, so I won't bother to fake a smile and give fake compliments to people I dislike, in fact, I won't even bother to go all the way out to interact with that person at all and I will try to stay as far away from that person as possible. I hate fake people, so I will never be a fake person myself. I also don't believe in changing people or forcing my values onto people either, so avoiding the people I dislike would be the best way to tackle them.This is what goes through the mind of an Fi type.


I think you gave a good depiction of Fi. However, a Te is not going to have such a healthy Fi, because it's low order. It won't come across the same as a stronger Fi.

My mother does seem to think people should act the way she believes... we should all eat healthy, organic food. If I try to point out the problems with organic food and the controversy, she is irritated. "Well, it's the best we can do right now. It's still better than eating non organic food. I'd rather have some pesticides rather than none at all. If we all ate organic food, maybe obesity and health issues would go down." It's just that way, and picking it apart? She'll blow, because that's clearly how it is and any other argument is missing the point.

I think this is just Je in general. Whether it's Te or Fe... that's my hang up.


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## Deadly Decorum (Feb 23, 2014)

fair phantom said:


> Te-doms are usually interested in and receptive to evidence.


She is too. But she does often seem to cherry pick sources imo, ones that fit her view of the world, and all the others are eschewed. With alternative medicine for instance, she tells me no one can prove it wrong because it is a science, and there are these tests. The more I try to poke and prod the validity, she is angry. Or with vaccines. No they do cause autism. People are lying because they want to fund vaccines, and Wakefield was right. All the anecdotal evidence is what sells her. Any evidence I show about Wakefield, or the idea of correlation does not equal caustion... absolute bullshit in her view. See, these mothers saw their children turn autistic, so how are we denying that? I am being so rude and disrespectful for discrediting her beliefs, she says.



fair phantom said:


> They can believe in strange things, but in the case of the ESTJs I know, they believe because they can point to something from their experience. One I know believes in miracles because a family member survived a barn explosion that probably should have killed him.


Sounds like something my mother would say. She was in a car accident and feels like she should have died, but she didn't, so therefore a guardian angel protected her. Again... no nitpicking... that's how it was and there's no way in hell it could have been a fluke or coincidence or something that we're missing allowed her to survived. The fact remains; she should have died, she didn't, so guardian angels exist.



fair phantom said:


> And I think ESTJs, even when they are rigid and unlikely to change their opinion, wouldn't change the subject like she did. That sounds like inferior Ti to me...she is uncomfortable with having to explain her reasoning. I think an unhealthy ESTJ (because let's face it, whatever type she is, it is unhealthy) would want to bully their opponent into submission (or at least silence) with their reasoning.


See, that's what I initially thought. Inferior Ti. But that's just the way these things are... and I find that all those people disagreeing with her beliefs, vilifying and attacking them... she can't stand it. This is how she feels, and you are rude to not appreciate that. You are stupid to not realize this is how things are... she will try to explain, and if you're not getting it, she's done. That's why she changes the topic. Maybe it's really inferior Fi instead.



fair phantom said:


> Her inconsistency regarding marriage also strikes me as inferior Ti.


Why?



fair phantom said:


> (funny thing though: my ESTJ sister also warned me against musicians, but she did so in a jocular mood and her reasoning had to do with them always being on the road).


My mom says they are losers, don't make money, and will never settle down and take care of me. lol. She might eat that idea up too though.

I hate curiosity. It is the worst when I want to figure something out but I can't.


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## fair phantom (Mar 5, 2015)

hoopla said:


> She is too. But she does often seem to cherry pick sources imo, ones that fit her view of the world, and all the others are eschewed. With alternative medicine for instance, she tells me no one can prove it wrong because it is a science, and there are these tests. The more I try to poke and prod the validity, she is angry. Or with vaccines. No they do cause autism. People are lying because they want to fund vaccines, and Wakefield was right. All the anecdotal evidence is what sells her. Any evidence I show about Wakefield, or the idea of correlation does not equal caustion... absolute bullshit in her view. See, these mothers saw their children turn autistic, so how are we denying that? I am being so rude and disrespectful for discrediting her beliefs, she says.
> 
> Sounds like something my mother would say. She was in a car accident and feels like she should have died, but she didn't, so therefore a guardian angel protected her. Again... no nitpicking... that's how it was and there's no way in hell it could have been a fluke or coincidence or something that we're missing allowed her to survived. The fact remains; she should have died, she didn't, so guardian angels exist.


Okay, hairsplitting then  I still don't see why this is ESTJ.

Cherry picking facts is consistent with inferior Ti in ESFJs:



LiquidLight said:


> Tertiary Sensing and Intuition serve to support the negative judgments that are made.The tertiary Intuition of ESFJs generates vague, negative“hypotheses” that affirm their convoluted “logical” critical stance about themselves and others. ENFJs bring their tertiary Sensing to bear by coming up with negative past and present “facts” that support their complicated and largely illogical critical judgments.





> See, that's what I initially thought. Inferior Ti. But that's just the way these things are... and I find that all those people disagreeing with her beliefs, vilifying and attacking them... she can't stand it*. This is how she feels, and you are rude to not appreciate that.* You are stupid to not realize this is how things are... she will try to explain, and if you're not getting it, she's done. That's why she changes the topic. Maybe it's really inferior Fi instead.


Hmmm maybe, But the bolded in particular does not sound ESTJ to me. And what she seems to be getting upset about is her inability to defend her logic, not her ethics. 



> Why?


Convoluted logic again. But I could be wrong. That is just how it seemed.



> My mom says they are losers, don't make money, and will never settle down and take care of me. lol. She might eat that idea up too though.
> 
> 
> I hate curiosity. It is the worst when I want to figure something out but I can't.


The funny thing is I did wind up with a musician, but he tends to prefer to record his own stuff. He is looking to have someone to play with, but he doesn't want to tour. 

Do you think you might just be overthinking things? Your mother as described sounds too outwardly emotional to be an ESTJ. And yes, I am taking social conditioning into account. The ESTJs women I know show more emotion than ESTJ men typically do...but it is positive socially accepted emotion. But then, I could have a mistaken impression, and it makes sense that family would see the negative emotions more.


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## Deadly Decorum (Feb 23, 2014)

fair phantom said:


> Okay, hairsplitting then


Only thing I'm good at. 


* *






fair phantom said:


> Cherry picking facts is consistent with inferior Ti in ESFJs:


When I first joined a few years ago, I gobbled up everything liquidlight said. Now I believe he got plenty of stuff wrong, and fixated a bit too much on the inferior functions and viewed them in this immensely negative way. I don't agree with that. I think, when unhealthy, sure, inferior functions can come across this way. They will always be clearly the most immature... like with inferior Ne, it often has an anxious quality to it, and I notice it's often used to come across as interesting (I find that I do this a lot... because I'd be extremely boring without it, tbh). But it can still be a very healthy, well used highlight within an individual, even if it's clear it's not their particular strength.

Maybe I'm misinterpreting, but that didn't seem to indicate cherry picking. It's talking about using Ne to generate negative possibilities that support a faulty conclusion. Doesn't sound compatible with cherry picking. Sure, I think many of her conclusions are faulty. But I'll provide a fact and she'll tell me that one is wrong because this one is the better one because it fits her idea. She doesn't generate... she just sticks to whatever fits what she believes, so no more, no less. If that's the same thing, then let me know.



fair phantom said:


> Hmmm maybe, But the bolded in particular does not sound ESTJ to me. And what she seems to be getting upset about is her inability to defend her logic, not her ethics.


Well, if she was with someone who totally believed in what she had to say, they would talk about it for hours. It's when someone doesn't agree and they keep arguing for the other side. It's clearly this way, so what are you talking about? She will try to explain, but if you're not getting it, she becomes irritated, because it's plainly obvious that X is X, so don't you dare assume it is Y. If you do, she becomes impatient. I've once heard that Fe Ti is typically more patient than Te Fi... and she certainly has no tolerance, so that made me wonder.

She also doesn't seem as open about her ethics as I do in some ways, but in others, absolutely. Being rude or disrespectful? Huge deal. But I know I am an Fe because I am broad scale ethics... veganism, environmentalism, feminism... I could rant for hours about the pain and suffering these issues harm the world... how they harm people. I am so externally mushy about them. It really pisses her off, and she has no patience for it. My ESFJ grandmother... when I was 10 and went vegetarian because of the poor animals and how cruel it was, she was so helpful. Gave me advice on how to eat and everything, even if she disagreed herself, because I think she understood. My mother got so pissed and thought I was making a big deal out of things, and was being inconvenient because of the special meals and restaurants it required.



fair phantom said:


> Convoluted logic again. But I could be wrong. That is just how it seemed.


She was reckless. She told me whilst under the influence once that she had me because she wanted a reason to get away from her parents (she was only 16), and apologized for being so selfish. As you can imagine, the relationship didn't work, so she moved back home. She got married when I was 2, also to escape living at home, then divorced when I was 4. She ended up cheating on him and abusing substances, which was the primary reason for the split. Her second husband she married because she was broke and tired of being single, and ended up marrying a jerk. Most of her relationships have been like this... marrying for comfort, security or an escape, and not true love. She's explained all of this to me. She has told me that she will never marry again, and I should never marry because she doesn't want me to repeat her mistakes, and she can go on and on about the mistakes she had made and why marriage is overrated and really just a sham. I don't think it's convoluted, but maybe.



fair phantom said:


> Do you think you might just be overthinking things?


Probably. Then again if I'm being honest... I think many of you have an idea of what an ESTJ is supposed to be like, and since this isn't fitting our ideas, it's being rejected. I haven't seen any arguments that I find to be ultimately convincing. Of course I'm still on the fence; the worrying about what others think for instance, makes me still consider Fe. I'm not against it. It was my original typing after all. I'm just not sold either way yet.



fair phantom said:


> Your mother as described sounds too outwardly emotional to be an ESTJ.


That was (and still is) on my mind. Flipping people behind their back? Feelings easily hurt... a worry about what others think? Having to talk about how much they piss her off... unable to hold it inside. Then again, I find much of it really is anger that she displays... impatience, and a temper. Seems consistent with ESTJs. Again, a Jenna Marbles example:






 @Schizoid may find this interesting, as it's a good example of a Te dom ranting about those around them. 

I really like the point about ragging on people for an inflated sense of importance; it's something my mother does a lot. "You're not as important as you think you are!" And the obvious anger/frustration.

Also: 






Skip to 7:44

This could be the inconsistence irk that @Princess Langwidere mentioned... and what I argued seemed to contradict that, so maybe my mother is an ESFJ. It's hard for me to argue for her though... as I am not her.

I could easily argue against that. Should "Jalapeno" be spelled with an "H" instead? Also, there is a hard "G" and a soft "G". Typically, the hard "G" is used in conjunction of the vowels A, O and U, whereas the soft "G" is used in conjunction of the vowels I, E and Y. So in this context, the pronunciation of the soft G would be the correct usage. It's a matter of phonemes, not the fact that... "Jiffy" peanut butter is spelled with a "J", whereas "gif" is spelled with a "G". Really, that doesn't even make sense. The phoneme depends on the meaning, not the letter. I also like how frustrated she is here... it's just how it is, come on people... it is plain as day! It couldn't get anymore Te than that. 

I almost wonder... if I provided this argument... if she would accept it, or just get frustrated and rant about the Jiffy peanut butter thing and lose all patience, or possibly change the topic because any other suggestion is stupid. Something my mother would do. However, that may not be how Jenna would react at all. Maybe she'd buy it. But I just disagree that a Te dom wouldn't change the topic. If no one is seeing X, or they know the person is going to argue that X is Y, I would imagine they'd lose patience and say "NEXT!"

Also if you didn't watch the entirety of her videos I don't blame you... I find her vids very hard to shift through myself. ...I skipped over parts of both if I'm being frank.



fair phantom said:


> The ESTJs women I know show more emotion than ESTJ men typically do...but it is positive socially accepted emotion. But then, I could have a mistaken impression, and it makes sense that family would see the negative emotions more.


I find she shows her negative emotions with the family or close friends, and tends to try to hide them in polite company... unless she ultimately loses patience. Lol. She seems to prefer to deal with people whom share her view of things, or otherwise she gets irritated quickly.

Though not always. See, I told her she doesn't have to talk to her dad, because imo I too find him frustrating to deal with, and I probably wouldn't talk to him ever again if I didn't have to. She claimed I was being way too harsh... that's her father! But she grudges against her sister hardcore... her sister started it, and she's in no way going to talk to her ever again. She doesn't even care, because she frustrates her so much. Sometimes she feels obliged to engage with people (again her words, and this could be Fe!) but she also sometimes gets so frustrated that she's just done. She does seem to hold onto moral obligations though... so Fe with a nasty inferior Ti?




I wish I wasn't so intrigued by the idea that she may possibly be a Te so I could just settle on Fe. My brain won't allow it. I definitely think it's plausible... but argh uncertainty.


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## Barakiel (May 20, 2014)

@hoopla, this is probably off topic, but if you need another example of a Youtuber ESTJ, TotalBiscuit. He's not really emotional, per say, but I'd imagine he'll compare/contrast quite nicely with Jenna Marbles.


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## Deadly Decorum (Feb 23, 2014)

Barakiel said:


> @hoopla, this is probably off topic, but if you need another example of a Youtuber ESTJ, TotalBiscuit. He's not really emotional, per say, but I'd imagine he'll compare/contrast quite nicely with Jenna Marbles.


Thanks! I'll check him out.

Another good example of a youtuber Te dom is The Amazing Atheist. I actually enjoy his videos... I find myself either really finding him on the money, or entirely disagreeing. He's always entertaining though... unless he goes too far. Ni vs Ne is a bit more difficult, but a strong Te nonetheless. 

Onision is a good example of.... an unhealthy Te. He's been typed as an ESFP... that I can actually see. Bad example though. I like him because he shows how ethics (veganism) can be extroverted through Te rather than Fe. ....Still an obnoxious and unhealthy type, though.


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## Schizoid (Jan 31, 2015)

hoopla said:


> Again, a Jenna Marbles example:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Interesting video. I think both Te and Fe are capable of ranting, but the way they rant is slightly different. When Te rants, they tend to focus mainly on a person's actions rather than the person's character. When Fe rants, they tend to make it more personal. 

My mom happens to be an unhealthy ExFJ and if she were to rant about someone she will always make sure to bring personal attacks in. She will often make very strong statements about people's character, she has difficulty viewing people objectively and separating people's character from their actions.
And I'm pretty sure my mom is an Fe dom, although she is a bit of an unhealthy Fe type. I have a bit of social anxiety and I don't fit in very well with my classmates, so when I was bullied in school and I told her about it, she started criticizing me, saying that the problematic one is me because I didn't know how to fit in with others. 
She often has a set of expectations for her loved ones to live up to, and when her loved ones failed to live up to those expectations, she will start putting them down. My ISTJ dad for example, tends to be very cold and aloof and doesn't show any emotions at all, and she often felt neglected by him, she will often complain about how she is the one who cares about everyone but no one cares about her, and she will also often complain to me about him loudly in front of him saying that she regrets marrying him, she will also often bring up about her ex-bf in front of him saying how she regrets that she didn't marry them trying to make him jealous by saying this, she also often tell him to his face that if she didn't marry him he would end up being a bachelor because nobody wants to marry him. And of course, whenever I pissed her off, she will start bringing personal attacks in as well, bashing me on my appearance and my personality and my habits etc. 

So this is basically how unhealthy Fe looks like. They will say something to create an emotional impact on the other person. Being the Fe type they are, they tend to be very insightful about people's emotional states, and they know exactly the right words to say to hit the other person on the jagular. Their harsh criticisms can actually be mistaken easily as Te, but no, it's not Te, because her reasoning behind her actions doesn't stem from Te, but it's from Fe. Although Te types can also criticize another person harshly, but they don't do it to create an emotional impact on the other person. If a Te type criticizes another person harshly, it's because they are feeling annoyed with the other person (Fi), and not because they wanted to create an emotional impact on the other person (Fe). 

I think when it comes to figuring out which functions a person uses, we have to focus more on the why rather than the what. 
Both Fe and Te can look pretty similar at times, and they are even capable of doing similar things and saying similar words, but it's the reasoning behind those actions and words that determines whether they are a Te or Fe type.


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## fair phantom (Mar 5, 2015)

hoopla said:


> Only thing I'm good at.


Haha well I wouldn't have even said anything if you hadn't introduced it yourself 


* *







> When I first joined a few years ago, I gobbled up everything liquidlight said. Now I believe he got plenty of stuff wrong, and fixated a bit too much on the inferior functions and viewed them in this immensely negative way. I don't agree with that. I think, when unhealthy, sure, inferior functions can come across this way. They will always be clearly the most immature... like with inferior Ne, it often has an anxious quality to it, and I notice it's often used to come across as interesting (I find that I do this a lot... because I'd be extremely boring without it, tbh). But it can still be a very healthy, well used highlight within an individual, even if it's clear it's not their particular strength.


Well yes, of course they can be healthy. I wasn't trying to give the entire definition of inferior Ti



> Maybe I'm misinterpreting, but that didn't seem to indicate cherry picking. It's talking about using Ne to generate negative possibilities that support a faulty conclusion. Doesn't sound compatible with cherry picking. Sure, I think many of her conclusions are faulty. But I'll provide a fact and she'll tell me that one is wrong because this one is the better one because it fits her idea. She doesn't generate... she just sticks to whatever fits what she believes, so no more, no less. If that's the same thing, then let me know.


I'm confused. You said that she cherry picks sources. I have no information on her other than what you give me. Did you change your mind?



> Well, if she was with someone who totally believed in what she had to say, they would talk about it for hours. It's when someone doesn't agree and they keep arguing for the other side. It's clearly this way, so what are you talking about? She will try to explain, but if you're not getting it, she becomes irritated, because it's plainly obvious that X is X, so don't you dare assume it is Y. If you do, she becomes impatient. I've once heard that Fe Ti is typically more patient than Te Fi... and she certainly has no tolerance, so that made me wonder.


Typically, yes, so it makes sense to wonder and question it. 



> She also doesn't seem as open about her ethics as I do in some ways, but in others, absolutely. Being rude or disrespectful? Huge deal. But I know I am an Fe because I am broad scale ethics... veganism, environmentalism, feminism... I could rant for hours about the pain and suffering these issues harm the world... how they harm people. I am so externally mushy about them. It really pisses her off, and she has no patience for it. My ESFJ grandmother... when I was 10 and went vegetarian because of the poor animals and how cruel it was, she was so helpful. Gave me advice on how to eat and everything, even if she disagreed herself, because I think she understood. My mother got so pissed and thought I was making a big deal out of things, and was being inconvenient because of the special meals and restaurants it required.


Yes but not every Fe is like you. It sounds like she does get that way about certain things, just not the things you do.

And for awhile my sister was the only vegetarian in our immediate family. ESTJ. So I don't see how your mother's reaction is indicative of either esxj option. All it says to me is that you came into value conflict. :/



> She was reckless. She told me whilst under the influence once that she had me because she wanted a reason to get away from her parents (she was only 16), and apologized for being so selfish. As you can imagine, the relationship didn't work, so she moved back home. She got married when I was 2, also to escape living at home, then divorced when I was 4. She ended up cheating on him and abusing substances, which was the primary reason for the split. Her second husband she married because she was broke and tired of being single, and ended up marrying a jerk. Most of her relationships have been like this... marrying for comfort, security or an escape, and not true love. She's explained all of this to me. She has told me that she will never marry again, and I should never marry because she doesn't want me to repeat her mistakes, and she can go on and on about the mistakes she had made and why marriage is overrated and really just a sham. I don't think it's convoluted, but maybe.


That is all completely understandable, but isn't she still pursuing guys? did I misinterpret that? That is what I found odd. But I'll withdraw that point.



> Probably. Then again if I'm being honest... I think many of you have an idea of what an ESTJ is supposed to be like, and since this isn't fitting our ideas, it's being rejected. I haven't seen any arguments that I find to be ultimately convincing. Of course I'm still on the fence; the worrying about what others think for instance, makes me still consider Fe. I'm not against it. It was my original typing after all. I'm just not sold either way yet.


Maybe. 



> That was (and still is) on my mind. Flipping people behind their back? Feelings easily hurt... a worry about what others think? Having to talk about how much they piss her off... unable to hold it inside. Then again, I find much of it really is anger that she displays... impatience, and a temper. Seems consistent with ESTJs. Again, a Jenna Marbles example:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah I skipped parts because I find her really irritating. And she seems very ESTJ. the really annoying kind. 
But she doesn't honestly seem that emotional to me? Not what I consider emotional? Criticizing and complaining don't make a person vulnerable. It isn't really exposing anything significant or held dear. Maybe she did in the parts I missed.

Yes I can see how any type could want to change the subject. 

So is that what your mother is like? Like Jenna Marbles?



> I find she shows her negative emotions with the family or close friends, and tends to try to hide them in polite company... unless she ultimately loses patience. Lol. She seems to prefer to deal with people whom share her view of things, or otherwise she gets irritated quickly.


That behavior is pretty common.



> Though not always. See, I told her she doesn't have to talk to her dad, because imo I too find him frustrating to deal with, and I probably wouldn't talk to him ever again if I didn't have to. She claimed I was being way too harsh... that's her father! But she grudges against her sister hardcore... her sister started it, and she's in no way going to talk to her ever again. She doesn't even care, because she frustrates her so much. Sometimes she feels obliged to engage with people (again her words, and this could be Fe!) but she also sometimes gets so frustrated that she's just done. She does seem to hold onto moral obligations though... so Fe with a nasty inferior Ti?


Honestly seems that way to me, though I'm feeling like if I don't agree that I see ESTJ that I am going to be accused of being narrow-minded.

If her emotionality is expressed like Jenna Marbles then okay I was mistaken and she could be ESTJ. (Please ask me watch anymore Jenna Marbles).






> I wish I wasn't so intrigued by the idea that she may possibly be a Te so I could just settle on Fe. My brain won't allow it. I definitely think it's plausible... but argh uncertainty.


Ne is annoying that way. Ti too. :indecisiveness:


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