# What makes people think INFJ is complex?



## Bast (Mar 23, 2011)

Scruffy said:


> Prestige stemming from assumed rarity. If it's assumed to be rare, it must be a ball of mystery.


This is what I came here to say. INFJs are thought of as the special snowflakes of MBTI based upon unproven statistics, and therefore people assume that they must be crazy outliers on the scatter plot of personality types. Certainly cognitive functions can be difficult to understand, especially when they are functions that you yourself don't use, but that doesn't mean any one type is more "deep" than another.


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## StElmosDream (May 26, 2012)

Depth of thought when Ni seems misplaced at times... not sure if all can do it but I do have a way of predicting what people will say using Fe and empathic awareness (still questionable if I subconsciously direct conversation or read emotional responses likely). 

Tis a good question though, whether or not Fe emotional awareness is just misunderstood at times when some find selfless consideration uncommon or if the intuitive soul gaze influences public opinion when some are easier to read that others very quickly.


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## Persephone (Nov 14, 2009)

Scruffy said:


> Prestige stemming from assumed rarity. If it's assumed to be rare, it must be a ball of mystery.


You can't be serious. You can't really think all these MBTI writers look at INFJs and go "oooooh shiny" like a kid with a diamond, like the diamond isn't just pure carbon arranged in a special way. Give them some credit. INFJs aren't diamonds. They can be complex _and_ rare. They might even be the most complex, that doesn't stop them from being the most rare.


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## gold dust woman (Jul 17, 2012)

Riverlioness said:


> People think INTJs are crazy or evil. I am clueless about the reasoning behind people's conclusions. My best guess is that you have a stronger connection to the unconscious, but so do we....so what the heck? *Puzzled*
> 
> When people tell me things about myself, I stand there, not knowing what they are talking about....
> 
> We both have the same initial problem, and I am seeking answers too.




You sound just like my intj husband. He actually uses his introverted intuition to accurately read my mind but he thinks he is just suspicious. His intuition is unbelievable but he is clueless about what it really is and it's power. I tell him obvious insights about himself and he is continually surprised to hear them. I try to hide my true thoughts about something, and he will ACTUALLY TELL ME WHAT I AM TRYING TO HIDE. It is sooooo creepy!!!!!!!!!!!! His insight into my mind is unreal,but his insight into his own self is virtually non-existant. He is learning to use his powers of intuition for good now instead of evil. He has always been an intj control freak and used his uncanny insight to control me but is in therapy now and making a butt load of progress. My mother has always referred to him as 'Hannibal Lechter', but maybe even 'Hannibal the Cannibal' can reform in the presense of the infj. His other women could not get this much progress out of him. We do have a strange intuitive connection that is profound,and he truly loves my mind.


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## Aelthwyn (Oct 27, 2010)

I think people tend to see Introverts as 'deep' and 'mysterious' to begin with, Intuitive ones even more so. But it seems to me like there is this elusive quality to Ni folks - both INFJ and INTJ - having to do with the way that they interact and communicate with others which causes them to appear 'mysterious' and somehow removed or unreachable in some way by others, even if they think they are just being open and normal. Sometimes this is misread as arrogance, or as possessing profound wisdom when there really isn't anything hidden behind some curtain. I do think that these types generally like to be percieved as difficult to understand, whether they actually are or not. I wish I could figure out exactly what it is about the way they phrase things or present themselves or something which gives that impression....but I just can't put my finger on exactly what it is.


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## Modesty (Aug 30, 2011)

Bast said:


> This is what I came here to say. INFJs are thought of as the special snowflakes of MBTI based upon unproven statistics, and therefore people assume that they must be crazy outliers on the scatter plot of personality types. Certainly cognitive functions can be difficult to understand, especially when they are functions that you yourself don't use, but that doesn't mean any one type is more "deep" than another.


I totally agree. Emotional and intellectual deepness come from complex and/or powerful thoughts/feelings. No one type is more capable of having this than the other.

Stereotypes such as "The INTJ can be extremely cold at times" don't mean that INTJ have less feelings than the INFP. It simply means that he's less likely to show them because of his outward thought process.

You could argue that Introverts are deeper than Extraverts though, but I don't consider it a competition. Extraverts are capable of great feeling and Introverts of great observation, so there's no reason to stereotype negatively, especially after you consider the wide amount of variables one must be neglecting to come up with such a conclusion.


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## Yedra (Jul 28, 2012)

What makes INFJs come across as mysterious and complex is probably due to them not being able to explain themselves sufficiently so they always seem distant.

To me Ni is a never ending stream of information, pictures and patterns and when one has it as one's dominant function it can be overwhelming when you have to explain the contents of it to others. It is fun to immerse yourself in it but not so much when you have to share the experience.

It's like a restaurant with Michelin stars, fancy dishes and ingredients and whatnot but your chef is a tertiary Ti who can't handle it all at once so your Fe serves swill or nothing at all.

Ti wants the all encompassing truth and this is just impossible. INFJs want to tell everything at once. There is this picture in one's head and if you talk only about a piece of it it feels as if you damaged the picture, so INFJs may refrain from saying anything at all. Because either someone will listen for a very long time to them or they will give fractions of the picture, which in turn will frustrate an INFJ.

I think INTJs have an advantage when it comes to being pragmatic. Due to their Fi-Te they can extract specifics from the Ni-stream and apply it efficiently.

In order for INFJs to make sense to other people it is crucial they develop their Ti, I guess.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

INFJ in a nutshell:

Looking for unity in symbolism.
Once unity has been found, they want to test that unity for truth.
Because of this, they loose connection with the present moment.


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## StElmosDream (May 26, 2012)

How NI/Ne is less understood by many people unless thinking of strategists, shaman, wise figures or great leaders; coupled with the intangible nature 'heart felt gut feelings or 'deep insights'.


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## Knight_In_Rags (Mar 11, 2012)

Sparky said:


> Many descriptions have remarked how INFJ personality is "deep" and "complex", and I am curious as to what makes them say that (also, complex compared to whom?); is it for a lack of information about the type? Thank you.


I think it's that clash between Ni and Fe. Ni causes INFJs to seem scholarly and formal most of the time while Fe on the other hand causes them to be sociable and affiliative when the moment arrives. The lack of Se can also cause them to seem out of touch with the present and its factual circumstances, causing them to not be obvious to others.


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## emerald sea (Jun 4, 2011)

i find that people use the label "complex" for anything they can't figure out. 

probably every INFJ has been told at some points in their life by others: "i can't figure you out." i know i have. that's the *first* of my two guesses as to why we get the label "complex." 

complex = difficult to understand or figure out = impossible to mentally label using any existing label. 

maybe the difficulty in understanding us is because of the (supposed - if the statistics can be trusted!) rarity of people of the INFJ type? it's hard for people to know how to categorize someone in their mind, if they've never met someone quite like them before. it's as if many people have within their minds "file folders," as a way of organizing the people in their life into categories with certain traits, and when they meet a new person, they try to get a general sense of what the person is like. to do so, they often try to think of which labeled folder fits them best and tentatively or firmly place them in that folder, thinking, 'they seem like "this" sort of person.' the folder system helps them determine what kind of behavior to expect from this new person, and how to interact with them effectively (based on past experience with people like them). 

the problem is that - for those who have such a mental people-filing cabinet - there's a high probability (due to rarity) that those who meet an INFJ have never met another INFJ before, and thus that they have no labeled folder corresponding to our set of traits. so they place us in a folder that our current behavior most closely resembles. eventually we do something that just doesn't "fit" inside that folder at all. this happens repeatedly. they think we keep "changing," when in reality we have always been the same, but just have acted out of character with the mental label/folder to which they had (mis-)assigned us. 

so they keep mentally placing us in different folders that seem to fit our behavior a little better, and trying them out for a while, and none of them match up, since we always violate them just by being ourselves. the real problem is that they had no existing labeled folders that really are our type equivalent (since they've never come across another INFJ), so none of them will ever fit. this is when INFJs are told statements like, "i've never met anyone like you before," which i'm sure we all have heard.  people seem to end up either throwing up their hands in frustration and declaring they "can't figure us out," or building an entirely new label and folder of information about how we seem to function, just to define us. many people in the world are misunderstood, but it's more likely to happen among rarer types.

---

my *second* guess as to why we are called "complex" is that our personality is a series of paradoxes, and that in itself is difficult to define.

we are, alternately: serious yet silly. intuitively knowing yet seemingly naive. deeply emotional yet strongly logical. ENFJ in empathy, INTJ in thought. can be both artsy and science/math/technologically inclined. "bleeding heart" and calculating logician in one. mentally aloof yet emotionally present. sweet yet severe ~ forgiving when affronted, harsh justice complex when others are affronted. "not a mean bone in their body" except toward those who emotionally or physically victimize others. tendency to want justice and then have second thoughts of compassion towards the criminal when justice is served. "J" but somewhat disorganized. deferent or passive out of respect for others' feelings but suddenly authoritarian and directive when necessary to protect others' feelings. idea people and doers. fiercely independent (Ni) yet tuned in to what the group wants or expects (Fe). highly sociable and gregarious (to the degree that people usually view us as extroverts and expect us to want to communicate all the time) yet extremely introverted. obsessive about health of relationships but frequently impossible for friends to reach, with a tendency to vanish into solitude unpredictably. longstandingly tolerant or patient to the degree that people assume it will always be that way, but with absolute enforced personal boundaries that shock people when locked down. alternately serene and fiery. 

open-minded to all data transactions, and innovative in interpretation, until Ni + Ti's long analysis has satisfactorily resolved all possibilities and contradictions; then the mind is suddenly and unexpectedly closed for business. appear easy to influence but frustratingly stubborn as a brick wall once the mind is made up. object of openness, subject of privacy. quickly trusted yet reticent to trust....erects series of walls around their heart for protection and lets them down gradually as trust is slowly developed, yet find to our surprise that others often seem to feel safe to let down all their walls at once around us when they barely know us. understanding what is at the hidden core of things but sometimes rendered notoriously oblivious to the obvious on the surface, by Ni's "but it could be this, or this, or this, or this, and not just what it clearly appears to be." believers in both the metaphysical (Ni) and the scientific (Ti) and tend to combine the two in original ways, due to an underlying innate defiance against the concept of "impossibility." knows how to operate within the social box but thinks outside of it. very aware how others come across, very oblivious how we come across. know, without any way to explain how we know what others can't understand how we know. our functions Ni, Fe, and Ti interplay in inter-contradictory ways so that our behavior can be hard to map or predict. 

those contradictions alone are enough to confuse a lot of people who (rightfully) think they know us. even my closest friends sometimes get surprised by me or say things (after years and years) like, "i've never seen this side of you before." it's always been a part of me; i guess it just never had the impetus or circumstances necessary to bring it out in their presence before. we find ourselves easy to understand, so we don't consider ourselves complex; but apparently we can be quite confusing, even to those who know us very, very well.


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## Glenda Gnome Starr (May 12, 2011)

I am not an infj but I too perceive and feel the pain that someone else is experiencing. I feel their pain when I touch them and when I look in their eyes. All I want to do is grasp their hands and take their pain away from them. My Se pushes me to take action because, if I don't, my Fi says, "It's your fault that you didn't try."
Sigh.



Kharyzmatiq said:


> I don't know about most INFJs, but that description has always resonated with me as an individual. Many descriptions discuss how our functions tend to counteract each other. Specifically, our Ni/Fe allows us to perceive and, quite literally, *feel* the pain someone we care about is experiencing. This level of emotional investment often feels like some sort of symbiotic attachment, my "emotional nerves" having somehow formed synapses within their being. My hypersensitivity can even allow me to perceive an emotion in someone who doesn't even realize they have it. Yet, at the same time, Fe will often prevent me from acting on this frequently confirmed perception because of how I know the person will react to any "help". They are too proud, stubborn, or perhaps simply don't desire assistance. But that doesn't mean that their pain is truly gone, and the pain I intuit can stay with me for long periods of time. I can use Ti to rationalize why I should detach from this individual, or that I have done all I could, but the painful resonance is not affected by this. Only the passage of time proves an effective analgesic.


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## Kharyzmatiq (Nov 9, 2011)

emerald sea said:


> i find that people use the label "complex" for anything they can't figure out.
> 
> probably every INFJ has been told at some points in their life by others: "i can't figure you out." i know i have. that's the *first* of my two guesses as to why we get the label "complex."
> 
> ...


Wow.... I can relate to every-single-word-of-this-post.


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## Misha (Dec 18, 2011)

Kharyzmatiq said:


> Many descriptions discuss how our functions tend to counteract each other. Specifically, our Ni/Fe allows us to perceive and, quite literally, *feel* the pain someone we care about is experiencing. This level of emotional investment often feels like some sort of symbiotic attachment, my "emotional nerves" having somehow formed synapses within their being. My hypersensitivity can even allow me to perceive an emotion in someone who doesn't even realize they have it.


+1



emerald sea said:


> so they keep mentally placing us in different folders that seem to fit our behavior a little better, and trying them out for a while, and none of them match up, since we always violate them just by being ourselves. the real problem is that they had no existing labeled folders that really are our type equivalent (since they've never come across another INFJ), so none of them will ever fit. this is when INFJs are told statements like, "i've never met anyone like you before," which i'm sure we all have heard.  people seem to end up either throwing up their hands in frustration and declaring they "can't figure us out," or building an entirely new label and folder of information about how we seem to function, just to define us. many people in the world are misunderstood, but it's more likely to happen among rarer types.


Wow. I have never thought about this but I realize I actually do this subconsciously. The _mental-filing_ concept is very interesting and spot on. Thank you for posting and sharing your insight about that, @emerald sea.

In my experience, most people are often surprised by how "empathetically sympathetic" especially when it comes to _feeling_ their pain by putting myself in their shoes--even though I didn't share similar experiences with them. That's the power of Ni-Fe as it enables me to connect with someone through emotional investment as @_Kharyzmatiq_ has mentioned. Though this can mislead people that INFJ may seem as dramatic, it is the level of emotional intensity that helps us to bond with people who we trust or care.

Another reason why most people label us as complex might have to do with our contrasting behaviours of extroversion (due to Aux-Fe) and introversion (due to Tert-Ti). Ni itself is a very exhausting functions and when it is paired with Ti, that's when we need to retreat ourselves from the outside world for a lengthy amount of time. That's when we suddenly seem to disappear for the sake of avoiding in wearing ourselves down. ENFP do this too but they do not need a lengthy amount to recharge and they are able to quickly re-connect with the mass once they need to feed their Dom-Ne; whereas for INFJ, the extensive phrase of introversion of seclusion often face difficulty to reconnect with the world even when they are mentally ready to reconnect with others. 

This might make most INFJs look rather passive-aggressive in our behaviours. And since we're quite private people in general, most likely we are reluctant to explain any missing information for the sake of harmony or avoiding any conflict. To sum it up, when we feel pessimistic, offended, chaotic, pensive, depressed, worn out, melancholic, or misunderstood, we just shut down immediately and usually without any human contact. Unfortunately our Dom-Fe can _rarely_ hide our swinging moods from others and it's clearly visible to people that something is troubling us, but without knowing exactly what border us. This often leaves people clueless about our state of mind and deemed us as complicated people.

This is why it often takes a lengthy amount of time for people to really get to know us. Sometimes, some people might feel INFJ's characters as draining (EXFPs and ENTXs), while others might actually appreciate our complexity (IXFPs and INTXs).


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