# Treat them mean to keep them keen



## Rouge (Sep 6, 2009)

How true do you find this idiom?


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

Peronally, I think if being treated badly made someone more attracted to someone, they would have some serious problems.


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## EmpathicSoul (Sep 22, 2009)

skycloud86 said:


> Peronally, I think if being treated badly made someone more attracted to someone, they would have some serious problems.


Then a lot of women have serious problems.


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## snail (Oct 13, 2008)

So do a lot of men.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 1057 (Apr 9, 2009)

skycloud86 said:


> Peronally, I think if being treated badly made someone more attracted to someone, they would have some serious problems.



quoted for truth.
in my opinion, there's almost nothing more unattractive than being a jerk.


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## Loke (Aug 10, 2009)

The thing to notice here is the word "keep", it's not the same as "get"! If there's no attraction to begin with, you're just being an ass if you're mean. The trick is to know just how attracted someone is to you and putting the meanieness on the corresponding level.


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## Unsung (Sep 21, 2009)

I felt i attracted loads more girls being nice to others. i think your getting mixed with something, girls like when u have a mean sense of humour towards them. e.g. "my hair looks awful" your reply.."well i wasnt going to mention it but..." dont always kiss up to them :tongue: be playful roud:

hope u get what i mean.


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## 1057 (Apr 9, 2009)

flirtatious disses is one thing, straight up maliciousness is another.


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## Briggs (Aug 23, 2009)

I think that is an unhealthy persons way of thinking.... sadly I see it work that way a lot in relationships over the years. Though I agree, it always ends or the person with that way of thinking is always in a new relationship or looking for one.


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## EmpathicSoul (Sep 22, 2009)

snail said:


> So do a lot of men.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Of course! However it's the reverse: The men are the ones treating the women badly!


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## Sily (Oct 24, 2008)

Mean? Sounds abusive. Sounds like something a pimp or Joe Pesci would say.

For me it's more like "Better be nice or you get put on ice".


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## Rouge (Sep 6, 2009)

So why are women attracted to arrogant assholes instead of nice guys?

And the men to bitchy women?


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## Liontiger (Jun 2, 2009)

Rouge said:


> So why are women attracted to arrogant assholes instead of nice guys?
> 
> And the men to bitchy women?


I was just having this convo with some of my friends. We didn't come to a solid conclusion, but they decided that nice guys were too boring.

Also, I think bitchiness is hot in a girl, but only to a certain extent. I want to know that there's something behind the bitchiness that's worth digging for.


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## LeelooDallas (Sep 15, 2009)

Nice guy is usually just another way to say a guy is emotionally needy = unattractive to some women since it's seen as "unmanly"
http://personalitycafe.com/infp-forum-idealists/1198-what-happened-all-nice-guys.html 

bitchy women tend to be ones with lots of guards up to protect their vulnerability = attractive to some men since they want to be the one to break through her defenses and change her into someone emotionally needy and clingy..

not surprisingly, it's often times nice guys who fall for bitchy women.


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## Lucretius (Sep 10, 2009)

LeelooDallas said:


> Nice guy is usually just another way to say a guy is emotionally needy


That's not necessarily true. Though I'm an "emotional guy," it primarily comes in the form of empathy for others. I'm not particularly needy at all; I'm emotionally nurturing. I wouldn't hold my significant other to any expectations of protecting my fragile ego or anything like that. However, I'm not an asshole, and I don't do a lot of partying or whatever.

Anyway, the short version of my point is "I'm a nice guy, but I'm not needy. So your point can't be entirely true."


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## Rouge (Sep 6, 2009)

So is this a case of arrogant assholes/bitchy women offering challenge while nice guys/gals don't?


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## The Proof (Aug 5, 2009)

LeelooDallas said:


> not surprisingly, it's often times nice guys who fall for bitchy women.


yes that's true, but understand that people have facets, so the woman is not bitchy in itself, she's just bitchy to "nice" guys, it's an individualized response

in this equation, "nice"=maniacal control freak, has massive emotional needs, tries to barter for sex


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## decided (May 17, 2009)

Rouge said:


> So why are women attracted to arrogant assholes instead of nice guys?
> 
> And the men to bitchy women?


My husband's an INTJ. Plenty of people think he's an arrogant arsehole, but he's actually a sweetheart. He'd probably hate me telling you that, lol.

But if he treated me mean, he'd get a smack. (And not just from me!)

Actually, quite a few of my male friends seem like arseholes to others. I just figure that other people can't see below the surface. But maybe I'm deluded.

Hmmm...


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## Rouge (Sep 6, 2009)

One of my ex boyfriends was a "nice guy". He had no opinion on where to go, what to do, and what he wanted to eat. "Whatever you want, dear" was always his answer when I asked. He was "nice" but terribly dull.

Although we eventually broke up due to other reasons, I can't date another guy like him again.


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## Rouge (Sep 6, 2009)

decided said:


> My husband's an INTJ. Plenty of people think he's an arrogant arsehole, but he's actually a sweetheart. He'd probably hate me telling you that, lol.
> 
> But if he treated me mean, he'd get a smack. (And not just from me!)
> 
> ...


So the morale of the story is, women like men who are an arrogant asshole to others but a sweetheart to them? :laughing:


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## decided (May 17, 2009)

Rouge said:


> One of my ex boyfriends was a "nice guy". He had no opinion on where to go, what to do, and what he wanted to eat. "Whatever you want, dear" was always his answer when I asked. He was "nice" but terribly dull.
> 
> Although we eventually broke up due to other reasons, I can't date another guy like him again.


He sounds like bland on a stick. Next!



Rouge said:


> So the morale of the story is, women like men who are an arrogant asshole to others but a sweetheart to them? :laughing:


Um, I don't know about all women... but I like those men.

Once I know them and realise they are actually sweethearts, the INFJ protectiveness kicks in. Those guys are often picked on and told they *are* an arsehole, and I won't tolerate it. I'm happy to tell them that they are *behaving* like an arsehole, but I would never say they *were* an arsehole. Really important distinction there, methinks.


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## matilda (May 21, 2009)

Some people actually enjoy playing victim. This does not mean that they have issues. 

They just don't feel threatened by it, is all. 

Nice is boring. But to each his/her own.


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## Perseus (Mar 7, 2009)

*Four Legged Friends*

Most of the witches are really Cats ISFP. You have been warned. More Cats are women by about 3 to 2 men. Cats are usually found to be more interesting than Dogs ISTJ. More Dogs are men in the proportion 3 to 2. 

Mice ISFJ are often victims, through choice sometimes. Especially if they choose a Bully ESTJ. 

Issues is when somebody does not do what you want. It is a bullying put down. Retard is a similar term. Wanker, asshole, bitch, catty etc.


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## Rouge (Sep 6, 2009)

decided said:


> Once I know them and realise they are actually sweethearts, the INFJ protectiveness kicks in. Those guys are often picked on and told they *are* an arsehole, and I won't tolerate it. I'm happy to tell them that they are *behaving* like an arsehole, but I would never say they *were* an arsehole. Really important distinction there, methinks.


Awww... your husband is so lucky to have you! 

(But I can't imagine him as an asshole anyway. He sounds like a guy with a tough shell hiding a soft heart :happy: )


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## Linesky (Dec 10, 2008)

If _mean_ means *honest*, sure. (does this need more clarification? :/)

I'm not gonna treat them badly though. That would be plain evil. Plus it'd just ruin everything. I have no such intentions.


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## LeelooDallas (Sep 15, 2009)

Thracius said:


> yes that's true, but understand that people have facets, so the woman is not bitchy in itself, she's just bitchy to "nice" guys, it's an individualized response
> 
> in this equation, "nice"=maniacal control freak, has massive emotional needs, tries to barter for sex


and isn't there a guy joke about the definition of a bitch being a woman who will sleep with everyone but you? 

as for the nice guy/bitch woman relationship it's much like the nice girl/jerky guy relationship: those can last for a long time usually until the nice person gets a clue and breaks it off or the jerk/bitch has sucked the nice person dry of all their money, sexual self-respect,general self-respect,etc and that person has nothing left to give...

and i hope noone thinks i'm implying that most relationships are like this because they aren't.. but "treating them mean" is the dynamic in some - not all - relationships. i bet we can all think of at least 1 couple we know like this




> Um, I don't know about all women... but I like those men.
> 
> Once I know them and realise they are actually sweethearts, the INFJ protectiveness kicks in. Those guys are often picked on and told they *are* an arsehole, and I won't tolerate it. I'm happy to tell them that they are *behaving* like an arsehole, but I would never say they *were* an arsehole. Really important distinction there, methinks.


haha.no wonder you like NTs.. but yeah i agree with you there's a difference between ego-driven arsiness (thinking you're better than someone else) and weird social skills arsiness ..


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## Mutatio NOmenis (Jun 22, 2009)

Now I know why I can't get a girl: I'm not a dickwad!
/sarcasm.


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## Mutatio NOmenis (Jun 22, 2009)

LeelooDallas said:


> Nice guy is usually just another way to say a guy is emotionally needy = unattractive to some women since it's seen as "unmanly"


 When I was first called a nice guy by a girl, I thought it was a compiment. Now I see it's one of the most insidious phrases ever,


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## thehigher (Apr 20, 2009)

Honestly INTPs....although you may say you don't find being treated badly makes you attracted to someone...well ...it's more complicated than that. Why? Because "treated badly" is a subjective term. I could treat you badly ...at least how I would think badly is....but then you might not take it that way at all....you might even take it as attractive....let me show you an example. 

My girlfriend is an intp. Whenever I show her that I truly care.....in my honest infp way.....she accuses me of not caring. She finds it dishonest. But then ...lets say I say to myself "fine then I won't care anymore and just be really distant" ...what does that do? It makes me look more NT and therefore she likes me more. Well great.....now if people just look from my perspective without actually analyzing this....they would conclude ......IF I act like a dick.....if I act distant and act like I don't like her.( in the way i would act if I didn't like someone)...then she will like me. It sure does work a lot better than being vulnerable and acting like I care. 

Great....so that's just a pile of doo doo isn't it? Well that pile of doo doo is only a fraction of the mislead idea that treating someone badly makes them more attracted. 

Reason #2 

The deeper the pain....the deeper the joy. Feelings are relative. The depth to which you feel pain is the depth to which you feel joy. So....if you feel deep pain from someone....guess what's gonna follow? Deep joy after he or she shows SOME sign or hint of niceness. 

Reason #3 

If you make someone feel like they do not deserve you....then they will want to be worthy for you. You WANT what you can't HAVE. How many times have we heard this? Well it's true. People that are mean pose more challenge than people who are just really accepting. 


Alright so does this JUSTIFY being mean in order to attract people? NO! It is the worst, insecure, immature, and fettle attempt to attract someone who you just do not naturally match with. 

But the point of this was to show you how people get lost into using this unhealthy action. Perhaps from learning how it works....we can do something to stop it.


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## LeelooDallas (Sep 15, 2009)

Mutatio NOmenis said:


> When I was first called a nice guy by a girl, I thought it was a compiment. Now I see it's one of the most insidious phrases ever,


 yeah nice can sometimes be a euphemism for safe,predictable, and a little boring. the good and attractive opposite of nice in this situation would be fun, exciting and charming, *not* a jerk. i think that's where some guys get tripped up on the "girls don't like nice guys" issue.

@thehigher: that's an interesting point you make. we all have a sliding scale of what being an ass means, and sometimes it's a matter of what you're used to. I have friends - male and female- who have been in really crappy relationship after crappy relationship -i mean stuff like mental, physical, emotional abuse . then when they get with someone who's not abusive but have other issues like unable to commit, to them thisnew person looks like an angel


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## zynthaxx (Aug 12, 2009)

Rouge said:


> How true do you find this idiom?


Unfortunately it is true for some.
I have an acquaintance who does this to his wife all the time. Basically, I see this behaviour as a weakness - from his side and from hers.
He's weak in the sense that he has the need to always stay reassured of her love, and instead of earning her respect, he uses jealousy and pain to get this reassurance .
She's weak in the sense that she stays with him even though she knows what he's up to, and she falls for his tricks every single time for fear of losing him.


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