# ENTP or ENFP? Help me!



## Girl archer (Apr 28, 2016)

Hi everyone,

I read up on the 16 types and went through type descriptions on 16personalities.com to see if I was an ENTP or ENFP. It may have seemed trivial to most people in my life and almost ridiculous that I was losing sleep over this. The struggle of not knowing something, or hunting for answers is all too real. I am sure there are people on here who will agree with me. Right, guys? I took multiple MBTI tests, typing me as ENTP or ENFP (and on one rare occassion INFP!). I then answered various cognitive function tests, and allow me to proudly present my results.

Te (Extroverted Thinking) (45%) 
your valuation of / adherence to logic of external systems / hierarchies / methods

Ti (Introverted Thinking) (65%) 
your valuation of / adherence to your own internally devised logic/rational

Ne (Extroverted Intuition) (75%) 
your valuation of / tendency towards free association and creating with external stimuli

Ni (Introverted Intuition) (70%) 
your valuation of / tendency towards internal/original free association and creativity

Se (Extroverted Sensing) (50%) 
your valuation of / tendency to fully experience the world unfiltered, in the moment

Si (Introverted Sensing) (40%) 
your valuation of / focus on internal sensations and reliving past moments

Fe (Extroverted Feeling) (60%) 
your valuation of / adherence to external morals, ethics, traditions, customs, groups

Fi (Introverted Feeling) (75%) 
your valuation of / adherence to the sanctity of your own feelings / ideals / sentiment

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
based on your results your type is likely - unclear

LOL, I stumped similarminds.com! I hope I will have better success with decoding my personality type here.


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## DOGSOUP (Jan 29, 2016)

Hello, @Girl archer,

your test results seem unusually balanced, though it seems to me you value NeFi the most and SiTe the least. However, let us not jump to conclusions.

Maybe fill up a questionnaire, or at least discuss something so we have raw material... And if you are a Ne-dom, maybe talk about any theories or consept you have on your mind? Brainstorm? Also, have you considered where you weak spot lies? Thinking, Feeling, sensing our intuiting? What is that makes you uncomfortable, function-wise?


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## Girl archer (Apr 28, 2016)

DOGSOUP said:


> Hello, @Girl archer,
> 
> your test results seem unusually balanced, though it seems to me you value NeFi the most and SiTe the least. However, let us not jump to conclusions.
> 
> Maybe fill up a questionnaire, or at least discuss something so we have raw material... And if you are a Ne-dom, maybe talk about any theories or consept you have on your mind? Brainstorm? Also, have you considered where you weak spot lies? Thinking, Feeling, sensing our intuiting? What is that makes you uncomfortable, function-wise?


That is a capital idea, @DOGSOUP! (nice name btw). As far as questionnaires go, I did a self typing test posted by jinsei. It was quite a revelation, that. My weak spot is definitely Sensing, I have been told by so many people that I have this far off look and that I should be more mindful and present. My mom even gave me a book on Mindfulness Meditation (sad to report it didn't help because I was getting distracted easily by noise from the outside or any kind of external stimuli). I am not brilliant at observing at all, I love brainstorming but am unable to think of a topic right now, so if you want to kick off the brainstorming, that would be cool by me. Actually what makes me uncomfortable is feelings. Especially comforting an upset person, and accidentally upsetting them more by prodding further but I am only really just trying to help them by finding a solution to their problem. I can't listen and just do nothing. I find that remarkably stupid, I have told my friends that unless they want a solution they shouldn't tell me stuff and whether they like it or not, they will get one. I am not above influencing them to pursue what I think as correct. That might have been the reason why I always used to the Austenian heroine Emma, from my pre-teens to late teens, and a few years after that. Now however, dare I say I am wiser and I try to reign it? Lol, I wish I could say that but on a serious note I have gotten better at not meddling. As far as expressing my own feelings, I don't realize what's going on right away, I take a while and when I do, I try to understand WHY rather than just fix it and move on. I have a tendency to intellectualize my feelings away, or try to explain them without really going deep and dealing with them or actually confronting them. However, thanks to my therapist I have gotten better at that. 

Does taking meds affect one's type? (not that I do, just curious about it.) 

Anyway, I look forward to your response.


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## Girl archer (Apr 28, 2016)

DOGSOUP said:


> Hello, @Girl archer,
> 
> your test results seem unusually balanced, though it seems to me you value NeFi the most and SiTe the least. However, let us not jump to conclusions.
> 
> Maybe fill up a questionnaire, or at least discuss something so we have raw material...


I was lurking and found a questionnaire on the thread of some other confused person, so I am posting my answers here @DOGSOUP. Hope this is helpful in your analysis: 
1) What aspect of your personality made you unsure of your type? There are far too many similarities between ENTP and ENFP, all of which I can relate to and thus, I am unsure of my type. 

2) What do you yearn for in life? Why? I yearn for a stress free life, I yearn for new experiences, adventure, Inner Peace (contradictory, I know), I yearn to never stop learning, I yearn to travel the world with the love of my life, I yearn to be a brilliant attorney someday that can do work that is significantly impactful in some way. In my pre-law days I faced many setbacks due to health issues that imposed limitations on a lot of stuff that I wanted to do that other people my age did, but I couldn’t do. That’s why I want to do everything I missed out on then, as well as lead a stress free life because stress will trigger my back pain issues once more, and I absolutely hae the idea of going back on any kind of medication.

3) Think about a time where you felt like you were at your finest. Tell us what made you feel that way. Last year, when I first thought of Masters, everyone said it was too late, poor planning etc. I made the registration deadline just in time, cracked open an LSAT book and thought “Huh, so if I figure out the pattern to this, this is going to be easy. “ Everyone I knew thought me crazy, but you know what? At the risk of sounding immodest, I pulled it off and that felt extremely affirming for me. As did the process where I got into one of the best law schools here, but ultimately decided to drop it in favour of a well-paying job as the scholarship they were offering wasn’t going to be enough. That is when I felt at my finest, the LSAT and the interview process that was so breezy. 

4) What makes you feel inferior? When I'm unable to keep up with an intellectual discussion with my friends because I don't understand what they are talking about. 

5) What tends to weigh on your decisions? (Do you think about people, pro-cons, how you feel about it, etc.) I think about the pros and cons of each decision and how it will affect me/my future goals, at max maybe my parents, lastly if my gut says something is off, I pause to examine deeper because that sneaky little fella when I do listen to him is never wrong. 

6) When working on a project what is normally your emphasis? Do you like to have control of the outcome?
My emphasis is on what creative ideas can I bring to the project, how I can present it differently or better than the ones already done, to do it the best I can and efficiently, also on time. Yes, I would like to have control of the outcome because I want to know that the project is in alignment with my final vision for it. However, if my other team members are competent and have done it well, I would be a bit more relaxed about it. 

7) Describe us a time where you had a lot of fun. How is your memory of it? One time I had a lot of fun was the last time I hung out with my friends. We were walking around on a hot sunny day, drinking iced tea and discussing How to Get Away With Murder (the show) and we later ended up plotting each other’s homicides. (in jest, purely) The challenge was to catch the other person and expose the “criminal”, that was fun. Later, we had boiled and salted peanuts at the beach, sat there till sunset building our fantasy life in Rowling’s world, but ended up discussing Hogwarts administration and the ineptness of the political administration of the magical world, we had each come up with five different solutions, then when parallels were drawn between the politics of their world and ours, we lost interest and it was time for my bus back home anyway. So that was the most fun I have had recently. 

8) When you want to learn something new, what feels more natural for you? (Are you more prone to be hands on, to theorize, to memorize, etc) Memorizing doesn’t work well for me, I learn best by discussing with classmates/colleagues/professor, examples, conceptually rather than specifics. Watching related videos helps, as does understanding how it works in a given real world scenario or the potential of that knowledge nugget. When I find it interesting or fun, I soak it in easier unlike tax laws which was so dry, I use it as bedtime reading when I have the rare bout of insomnia. 

9) How organized do you to think of yourself as? I am not very organized but if someone else is, I will automatically spot that, and maybe point it out (or not). On the rarest occasion, I may right it or fix that but that is highly unlikely. 

10) How do you judge new ideas? You try to understand the principles behind it to see if they make sense or do you look for information that supports it? I judge new ideas by trying to make sense of the principles underlying the idea, and what their application is. 

11) You find harmony by making sure everyone is doing fine and belonging to a given group or by making sure that you follow what you believe and being yourself? I find harmony by making sure there is no discord in my external environment, and myself.

12) Are you the kind that thinks before speaking or do you speak before thinking? Do you prefer one-on-one communication or group discussions? I typically try to have a skeletal framework of what to say when it comes to people I don’t know well, but I think on the go from there. I flesh out the framework as I keep talking, weeding out unnecessary points based on the discussion I am having and the direction in which I want it to go. With my friends however, I dive right in. I prefer communication in compact groups. (3-5 members at once, at max)

13) Do you jump into action right away or do you like to know where are you jumping before leaping? Does action speaks more than words? I jump into action with some amount of thought involved, and I believe that actions do speak louder than one’s words as they ultimately weed out the flakes and phonies. That being said, let me contradict that by saying I get stressed when I talk up a big game and then have to live up to whatever I have promised. I have troubles with follow through after enthusiastically over-committing to things. 

14) It's Saturday. You're at home, and your favorite show is about to start. Your friends call you for a night out. What will you do? Depending on who the friend is (some of my friendships have run into choppy waters of late, so…), and whether the show is at a cliff-hanger or mid-season finale/season finale determines my choice. I might go out with them, and end up talking about the show OR I stay home watching the show after making some excuse to the friend, thinking I should have gone out. I can’t help it, I second-guess myself and my decisions A LOT.

15) How do you act when you're stressed out? When I'm stressed out, I comfort eat, I think of all the times in the past this happened and that’s why I am probably a failure. I listen to old albums, go to my favourite park or temple to regain composure. Also, sometimes when I am emotionally overwhelmed I cry or rage at people, get obsessed with minutiae and act like a snarky bitch. (excuse the language)

16) What makes you dislike the personalities of some people? When they are rigid, inflexible and being all boring. An example- I was talking about my dream of having a mansion in Italy, and I went on to describe to my friends the kind of books I would have in my library, the pool, how I would just walk in the warm Mediterranean sunshine, doing “The Sweetness of Nothing” as Liz gilbert describes in her book and my ISTJ friend interrupted me with “That house is going to cost a lot, you have to have a viable source of income, you need to pay your bills and taxes”. I was extremely irritated at her, dearest friend she maybe but afterwards I lost interest in sharing with her. 

17) Is there anything you really like talking about with other people? I really like talking with other people about abstract ideas, such as the meaning of life and like to speculate about various things, such as whether there is an afterlife, past lives etc, conspiracy theories, AU scenarios, parallel universes and what we might be doing there, that sort of thing… But also mundane stuff like books and movies, what’s going on presently…

18) What kind of things do pay the least attention to in your life? My own body, physical sensations, if someone’s gotten a haircut or if the sofa is arranged differently, the date and time, objects in my environment, hunger pangs (when they do strike suddenly and intensely, I am completely taken by surprise)

19) How do your friends perceive you? What is wrong about their perception? ? What would your friends never say about your personality ? My friends perceive me as someone who is joking around all the time, somewhat incapable of depth and one that acts like a child. They keep telling me to grow up and get real. What they don’t realize is that I use it as coping mechanism at times. I hide my tears from them, I don’t want them to think I am weak or give them any kind of advantage over me, I don’t even cry in front of my parents, I just make jokes or make snappish, sarcastic remarks at the other person till I can awkwardly sidle away. My friends are surprised when I say something deep, real or insightful. Ironically enough, “Intellectual/competitive” wouldn’t probably be the first word that would come to their mind to describe me. I have never let on just how much the need for intellectual achievements drives me, and motivates me. I like getting good grades, medals and stuff but you would never know it looking at me. I get a rush when I get them, but if I don’t it is not like it is the end of the world for me though my optimism dims briefly and get sarcastic when that happens. 

20) You got a whole day to do whatever you like. What kind of activities do you feel like doing?
Assuming I have the finances to cover it, I would go to a concert or an art gala, or some the movies and drag a friend or two along. Dine at some fancy place where the portions are tiny, and the waiters are snobbish, critique the food like I am some kind of expert lol, walk all over the city taking in the sights, MAYBE buy stuff (not big on shopping) and sample a lot of variety of foods, try out a karaoke bar. However I am equally comfortable sitting at home in my PJs, binge-watching drama/comedy shows or comedy clips on Youtube, with some good take-out (quality is paramount to me), browsing various forums, taking buzzfeed quizzes, facebooking, reading extensively on some topics that interest me.


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## Girl archer (Apr 28, 2016)

DOGSOUP said:


> Hello, @Girl archer,
> 
> your test results seem unusually balanced, though it seems to me you value NeFi the most and SiTe the least. However, let us not jump to conclusions.
> 
> Maybe fill up a questionnaire, or at least discuss something so we have raw material...


I was lurking and found a questionnaire on the thread of some other confused person, so I am posting my answers here @DOGSOUP. Hope this is helpful in your analysis: 
1) What aspect of your personality made you unsure of your type? There are far too many similarities between ENTP and ENFP, all of which I can relate to and thus, I am unsure of my type. 

2) What do you yearn for in life? Why? I yearn for a stress free life, I yearn for new experiences, adventure, Inner Peace (contradictory, I know), I yearn to never stop learning, I yearn to travel the world with the love of my life, I yearn to be a brilliant attorney someday that can do work that is significantly impactful in some way. In my pre-law days I faced many setbacks due to health issues that imposed limitations on a lot of stuff that I wanted to do that other people my age did, but I couldn’t do. That’s why I want to do everything I missed out on then, as well as lead a stress free life because stress will trigger my back pain issues once more, and I absolutely hate the idea of going back on any kind of medication.

3) Think about a time where you felt like you were at your finest. Tell us what made you feel that way. Last year, when I first thought of Masters, everyone said it was too late, poor planning etc. I made the registration deadline just in time, cracked open an LSAT book and thought “Huh, so if I figure out the pattern to this, this is going to be easy. “ Everyone I knew thought me crazy, but you know what? At the risk of sounding immodest, I pulled it off and that felt extremely affirming for me. As did the process where I got into one of the best law schools here, but ultimately decided to drop it in favour of a well-paying job as the scholarship they were offering wasn’t going to be enough. That is when I felt at my finest, the LSAT and the interview process that was so breezy. 

4) What makes you feel inferior? When I'm unable to keep up with an intellectual discussion with my friends because I don't understand what they are talking about. 

5) What tends to weigh on your decisions? (Do you think about people, pro-cons, how you feel about it, etc.) I think about the pros and cons of each decision and how it will affect me/my future goals, at max maybe my parents, lastly if my gut says something is off, I pause to examine deeper because that sneaky little fella when I do listen to him is never wrong. 

6) When working on a project what is normally your emphasis? Do you like to have control of the outcome?
My emphasis is on what creative ideas can I bring to the project, how I can present it differently or better than the ones already done, to do it the best I can and efficiently, also on time. Yes, I would like to have control of the outcome because I want to know that the project is in alignment with my final vision for it. However, if my other team members are competent and have done it well, I would be a bit more relaxed about it. 

7) Describe us a time where you had a lot of fun. How is your memory of it? One time I had a lot of fun was the last time I hung out with my friends. We were walking around on a hot sunny day, drinking iced tea and discussing How to Get Away With Murder (the show) and we later ended up plotting each other’s homicides. (in jest, purely) The challenge was to catch the other person and expose the “criminal”, that was fun. Later, we had boiled and salted peanuts at the beach, sat there till sunset building our fantasy life in Rowling’s world, but ended up discussing Hogwarts administration and the ineptness of the political administration of the magical world, we had each come up with five different solutions, then when parallels were drawn between the politics of their world and ours, we lost interest and it was time for my bus back home anyway. So that was the most fun I have had recently. 

8) When you want to learn something new, what feels more natural for you? (Are you more prone to be hands on, to theorize, to memorize, etc) Memorizing doesn’t work well for me, I learn best by discussing with classmates/colleagues/professor, examples, conceptually rather than specifics. Watching related videos helps, as does understanding how it works in a given real world scenario or the potential of that knowledge nugget. When I find it interesting or fun, I soak it in easier unlike tax laws which was so dry, I use it as bedtime reading when I have the rare bout of insomnia. 

9) How organized do you to think of yourself as? I am not very organized but if someone else is, I will automatically spot that, and maybe point it out (or not). On the rarest occasion, I may right it or fix that but that is highly unlikely. 

10) How do you judge new ideas? You try to understand the principles behind it to see if they make sense or do you look for information that supports it? I judge new ideas by trying to make sense of the principles underlying the idea, and what their application is. 

11) You find harmony by making sure everyone is doing fine and belonging to a given group or by making sure that you follow what you believe and being yourself? I find harmony by making sure there is no discord in my external environment, and myself.

12) Are you the kind that thinks before speaking or do you speak before thinking? Do you prefer one-on-one communication or group discussions? I typically try to have a skeletal framework of what to say when it comes to people I don’t know well, but I think on the go from there. I flesh out the framework as I keep talking, weeding out unnecessary points based on the discussion I am having and the direction in which I want it to go. With my friends however, I dive right in. I prefer communication in compact groups. (3-5 members at once, at max)

13) Do you jump into action right away or do you like to know where are you jumping before leaping? Does action speaks more than words? I jump into action with some amount of thought involved, and I believe that actions do speak louder than one’s words as they ultimately weed out the flakes and phonies. That being said, let me contradict that by saying I get stressed when I talk up a big game and then have to live up to whatever I have promised. I have troubles with follow through after enthusiastically over-committing to things. 

14) It's Saturday. You're at home, and your favorite show is about to start. Your friends call you for a night out. What will you do? Depending on who the friend is (some of my friendships have run into choppy waters of late, so…), and whether the show is at a cliff-hanger or mid-season finale/season finale determines my choice. I might go out with them, and end up talking about the show OR I stay home watching the show after making some excuse to the friend, thinking I should have gone out. I can’t help it, I second-guess myself and my decisions A LOT.

15) How do you act when you're stressed out? When I'm stressed out, I comfort eat, I think of all the times in the past this happened and that’s why I am probably a failure. I listen to old albums, go to my favourite park or temple to regain composure. Also, sometimes when I am emotionally overwhelmed I cry or rage at people, get obsessed with minutiae and act like a snarky bitch. (excuse the language)

16) What makes you dislike the personalities of some people? When they are rigid, inflexible and being all boring. An example- I was talking about my dream of having a mansion in Italy, and I went on to describe to my friends the kind of books I would have in my library, the pool, how I would just walk in the warm Mediterranean sunshine, doing “The Sweetness of Nothing” as Liz gilbert describes in her book and my ISTJ friend interrupted me with “That house is going to cost a lot, you have to have a viable source of income, you need to pay your bills and taxes”. I was extremely irritated at her, dearest friend she maybe but afterwards I lost interest in sharing with her. 

17) Is there anything you really like talking about with other people? I really like talking with other people about abstract ideas, such as the meaning of life and like to speculate about various things, such as whether there is an afterlife, past lives etc, conspiracy theories, AU scenarios, parallel universes and what we might be doing there, that sort of thing… But also mundane stuff like books and movies, what’s going on presently…

18) What kind of things do pay the least attention to in your life? My own body, physical sensations, if someone’s gotten a haircut or if the sofa is arranged differently, the date and time, objects in my environment, hunger pangs (when they do strike suddenly and intensely, I am completely taken by surprise)

19) How do your friends perceive you? What is wrong about their perception? ? What would your friends never say about your personality ? My friends perceive me as someone who is joking around all the time, somewhat incapable of depth and one that acts like a child. They keep telling me to grow up and get real. What they don’t realize is that I use it as coping mechanism at times. I hide my tears from them, I don’t want them to think I am weak or give them any kind of advantage over me, I don’t even cry in front of my parents, I just make jokes or make snappish, sarcastic remarks at the other person till I can awkwardly sidle away. My friends are surprised when I say something deep, real or insightful. Ironically enough, “Intellectual/competitive” wouldn’t probably be the first word that would come to their mind to describe me. I have never let on just how much the need for intellectual achievements drives me, and motivates me. I like getting good grades, medals and stuff but you would never know it looking at me. I get a rush when I get them, but if I don’t it is not like it is the end of the world for me though my optimism dims briefly and get sarcastic when that happens. 

20) You got a whole day to do whatever you like. What kind of activities do you feel like doing?
Assuming I have the finances to cover it, I would go to a concert or an art gala, or some the movies and drag a friend or two along. Dine at some fancy place where the portions are tiny, and the waiters are snobbish, critique the food like I am some kind of expert lol, walk all over the city taking in the sights, MAYBE buy stuff (not big on shopping) and sample a lot of variety of foods, try out a karaoke bar. However I am equally comfortable sitting at home in my PJs, binge-watching drama/comedy shows or comedy clips on Youtube, with some good take-out (quality is paramount to me), browsing various forums, taking buzzfeed quizzes, facebooking, reading extensively on some topics that interest me.


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## DOGSOUP (Jan 29, 2016)

@Girl archer, thanks, I am not able to analyze this just yet... how about I get back to you... within two days or so


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## Girl archer (Apr 28, 2016)

That would be great. Thanks in advance for doing this, @DOGSOUP.


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## DOGSOUP (Jan 29, 2016)

No problem  Happy if this is helpful in any way! Oh yeah, and the brainstorming idea. I don't know... I'm kinda stuck pondering palingenesis and it occupies _all_ my thoughts. I haven't even read Schopenhauer or anything.



Girl archer said:


> I am not above influencing them to pursue what I think as correct


Lol, I do this too, sometimes. I try to be discreet about it  Fe is a meddler, really.



> Does taking meds affect one's type?


I'm not a professional, but I suppose it could have some effect-- however, they do say type will always be the same. The process I mean. How it manifests might be wildly different.



Girl archer said:


> I judge new ideas by trying to make sense of the principles underlying the idea, and what their application is.


Thinking preference, impersonal processing. I'd say Ti.



> sat there till sunset building our fantasy life in Rowling’s world, but ended up discussing Hogwarts administration and the ineptness of the political administration of the magical world, we had each come up with five different solutions, then when parallels were drawn between the politics of their world and ours, we lost interest and it was time for my bus back home anyway


DD Fun! This sounds like Ne-Ti. System-based analysis, but there is no interest to implement it on reality. Would you say this way of bouncing ideas is typical for you?



> learn best by discussing with classmates/colleagues/professor, examples, conceptually rather than specifics. Watching related videos helps, as does understanding how it works in a given real world scenario or the potential of that knowledge nugget


Ne usually prefers to debate about things. Specifically consepts over specifics. Here you mention real world scenarios, but seek them from external sources.



> “That house is going to cost a lot, you have to have a viable source of income, you need to pay your bills and taxes”.


I'd say this is typical conflict with Si-Te and Ne-Ti overhere. (The way Ne-doms deal with reality is interesting... their Si is of inferior quality, so there is this constant distancing/approaching thing going on. For example, my friend has zero interest on routine/organized schedule, but at the same time it haunts her to think she _ought_ to have one. Almost as if she wanted to live an idyllic, normal life, but at the same time she _cannot_, because it could turn out to be a cage. There is real conflict. Same goes for perfectionism... she does not consider herself one, yet she is absolutely terrified when she makes a mistake.)



> I really like talking with other people about abstract ideas, such as the meaning of life and like to speculate about various things, such as whether there is an afterlife, past lives etc, conspiracy theories, AU scenarios, parallel universes and what we might be doing there, that sort of thing…


Can you specify, how would you approach any these things? What is the first step you must consider? Do you ever reach conclusion, the truth of it... or is it all expansive exploration of idea? How much do these ideas energize you? (For example, do you tend to forget the realities when chasing these ideas?)



> However I am equally comfortable sitting at home in my PJs, binge-watching drama/comedy shows or comedy clips on Youtube, with some good take-out (quality is paramount to me), browsing various forums, taking buzzfeed quizzes, facebooking, reading extensively on some topics that interest me.


Ha! Connecting to sensory realm! This approach sounds like a Si one... with the comfort aspect to it.

*

Most of the things I have seen so far... and the way your friends see you... makes me say Alpha (=Ne, Fe, Ti, Si). That would mean... ENTP over ENFP. But let me see.. why is that you are conflicted between these two types? Is there anything in either one of these types that you do not identify with, if so, what?

You might also find this thread interesting. Some really good points there on the function differences. Tell me what you think


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## Girl archer (Apr 28, 2016)

Thank you @DOGSOUP, I have had an ugh day at work so I will reply to this when I am less incensed. I still have so much work left over. :bored:


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## Girl archer (Apr 28, 2016)

I also took the Myers Briggs assessment on scottmunson.info

These are my results:

Your personality type is: ENTP

Preference Clarity Categories: 
(Slight, Moderate, Clear, Very Clear) 

Moderate Extraversion: 15/21
Clear Intuition: 23/26
Moderate Thinking: 17/24
Clear Perceiving: 17/22


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## Girl archer (Apr 28, 2016)

DOGSOUP said:


> I'm not a professional, but I suppose it could have some effect-- however, they do say type will always be the same. The process I mean. How it manifests might be wildly different.


That's interesting that you should say that because eight years back when we were asked by a career counselor to take this in pre-uni, I got INTP. The counselor then asked me to reconsider my choice of a career in law, but of course I was a Commerce major who wanted to take up practice of corporate law. So I told her it was too late and she said "It is never too late to be who you want to be" and I told her "Who I want to be, is a lawyer". We had an awkward stare - off, and just when I was about to blink, she looked away. Lol. Wait, what was my point here? Sorry for digressing. THIS happens a lot. Digressing, i.e.



> DD Fun! This sounds like Ne-Ti. System-based analysis, but there is no interest to implement it on reality. Would you say this way of bouncing ideas is typical for you?


Pretty typical, I would say but only with those who can keep up. I mean, it is a curious thing really. My personality is kind of a mirror. It could be partly because during my teens when I was insecure, I used to basically try and emulate the person I was with, to gain their approval. Looking back, I am kinda embarrassed about how pathetic I used to be *rolls eyes*



> I'd say this is typical conflict with Si-Te and Ne-Ti overhere. (The way Ne-doms deal with reality is interesting... their Si is of inferior quality, so there is this constant distancing/approaching thing going on. For example, my friend has zero interest on routine/organized schedule, but at the same time it haunts her to think she _ought_ to have one. Almost as if she wanted to live an idyllic, normal life, but at the same time she _cannot_, because it could turn out to be a cage. There is real conflict. Same goes for perfectionism... she does not consider herself one, yet she is absolutely terrified when she makes a mistake.)


Is your friend an ENTP? The conflict that you described here especially wrt perfection is a struggle all too real for me. 



> Can you specify, how would you approach any these things? What is the first step you must consider? Do you ever reach conclusion, the truth of it... or is it all expansive exploration of idea? How much do these ideas energize you? (For example, do you tend to forget the realities when chasing these ideas?)


I'd start off pondering the possibility of it, and ask the person I am talking with for their opinion to see where they stand before revealing my own stance. Reality is suspended, when pondering these but then I am not a very feet firmly planted on the ground type person. My reality is somewhat above ground most of the time. To answer your other question, I don't always reach a conclusion.



> Most of the things I have seen so far... and the way your friends see you... makes me say Alpha (=Ne, Fe, Ti, Si). That would mean... ENTP over ENFP. But let me see.. why is that you are conflicted between these two types? Is there anything in either one of these types that you do not identify with, if so, what?


I was mostly confused because these two seem to have a lot in common at first glance especially if you look at the description given on most websites. Well, what I don't identify with... Let's see. ENFPs seem like sunshine, rainbows, bunnies and candies wrapped together and magnified. I am not like that at all. On the other hand, I am not all that cocky (like most ENTPs supposedly are), also I am a bit more religious and ENTP from what I have read seem to be either atheists or on the fence. I am not a religious fanatic or even what people might call a devout Hindu, but in my own way I follow Hinduism the way I want. 



> You might also find this thread interesting. Some really good points there on the function differences. Tell me what you think


Heading on over there now, will let you know my thoughts when I have perused that.


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## DOGSOUP (Jan 29, 2016)

Girl archer said:


> That's interesting that you should say that because eight years back when we were asked by a career counselor to take this in pre-uni, I got INTP. The counselor then asked me to reconsider my choice of a career in law, but of course I was a Commerce major who wanted to take up practice of corporate law. So I told her it was too late and she said "It is never too late to be who you want to be" and I told her "Who I want to be, is a lawyer". We had an awkward stare - off, and just when I was about to blink, she looked away. Lol. Wait, what was my point here? Sorry for digressing. THIS happens a lot. Digressing, i.e.


I am sorta used to digressing... lots of exposure to Ne, surely  I even do it myself sometimes, by accident.

Btw, I thought law was pretty suitable for NTPs. Depends, of course, but especially theoretical/systematic aspects of it. Some say it cannot be done due to lots of detailed work that N cannot handle, but I never believed in limitations of that sort 



> Is your friend an ENTP? The conflict that you described here especially wrt perfection is a struggle all too real for me.


She typed as ENFP (way too much Te; just bluntly stating things that are obvious, getting real tired of nitpicking and over-explaning/abstracting simple logical problems). There is a chance she is Socionics Alpha (ILE - which translates to ENTP), but that chance is very slim.



> I'd start off pondering the possibility of it, and ask the person I am talking with for their opinion to see where they stand before revealing my own stance. Reality is suspended, when pondering these but then I am not a very feet firmly planted on the ground type person. My reality is somewhat above ground most of the time. To answer your other question, I don't always reach a conclusion.


Definately Ne, but paired with what there... group-thinking or playing the devil's advocate?  Probably latter.




> I was mostly confused because these two seem to have a lot in common at first glance especially if you look at the description given on most websites. Well, what I don't identify with... Let's see. ENFPs seem like sunshine, rainbows, bunnies and candies wrapped together and magnified. I am not like that at all. On the other hand, I am not all that cocky (like most ENTPs supposedly are), also I am a bit more religious and ENTP from what I have read seem to be either atheists or on the fence. I am not a religious fanatic or even what people might call a devout Hindu, but in my own way I follow Hinduism the way I want.


Oh, those things...

IRL ENFPs aren't really like... sugar-coated sweet. Overall FPs get too much of this weird attitude. Most can be pretty blunt at times, hard to read emotionally. Sure, at their best they are goodhearted people, who dedicate time to evaluating morals and human nature and give therefore superb moral advice... 

Then... I suppose, Ne does give this air of agnostism to a person... doesn't mean Ne-doms cannot have religious or spiritual views. It is more about openness; understanding worldviews and how they connect to one another, not excluding anything. I've even known SFJs who use their Ne to cherrypick from different ideologies what fits their own subjective views.

The difference, in a nutshell: FP prefers to work with personal values and seeking nuance of interaction/relationships, while keeping up with the facts and what objectively makes sense. TP prefers to work with impersonal systems and frameworks, while connecting to people through shared values and pleasant emotional atmosphere.


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## Girl archer (Apr 28, 2016)

DOGSOUP said:


> I am sorta used to digressing... lots of exposure to Ne, surely  I even do it myself sometimes, by accident.
> 
> Btw, I thought law was pretty suitable for NTPs. Depends, of course, but especially theoretical/systematic aspects of it. Some say it cannot be done due to lots of detailed work that N cannot handle, but I never believed in limitations of that sort
> 
> ...


Going by everything you have written and that link, perhaps I am an NTP after all. I think I have a definite preference for Ti over Te. I am not as blunt. I have strong personal values though, but not for everything. I will never condone cheating in a relationship, or a criminal record in the past, or anyone who tries to strong arm me into voting for the most right-wing, conservative party of my country. Also, I feel very strongly about freedom of speech/expression, and public access to intellectual property. I want it to be available freely to everybody, I know it is probably viewed as wrong for a lawyer to be saying so (as the one that is supposed to uphold protection of intellectual property rights). Like, I may be getting slightly controversial here but people unnamed who release classified information that needs to be known, or expose the wrong -doings of those in office shouldn't be put in jail or house arrest if you ask me. I feel strongly about some things, but for the most part I want to express myself, get along with people, not too much conflict (that could just be a by-product of living in a conflict-ridden family, and I find that means of expressing conflict crude and distasteful. I would rather that we sit down and talk about it) and that doesn't seem very Te or Fi to me. Granted, my understanding is pretty basic so let me know if I am wrong.

P.S. I am writing this on my phone, so I will respond to the rest of the things you have said, when I am able to get on my computer. Thank you for deepening my understanding of these types @DOGSOUP.


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## aquirkynerd (Mar 26, 2015)

I'm going to pipe up here and throw a spanner in the works. I think you may well be an INFP actually! You undoubtedly have a lot of Ne, I think. I can see it. But I can also see a lot of Fi. Especially from an earlier post where you said something along the lines of not refraining from trying to bring someone to your opinion if you think that's right, and another time when you said you're quite uncomfortable comforting other people when they're upset (more Fe). It seems you use Fi more than Fe, which narrow it down to an NFP rather than an NTP. I'm seeing a lot more Fi in your posts than Ti, personally, which supports that idea. So let's say your Ne and Fi kind of work together and neither is very dominant. Look at the other two. You saying (I'm paraphrasing) that you think of times gone by when something bad happened to you or you felt bad or whatever you said when you're feeling down, is indicative of a more Fi-Si loop. You feel low, you try to reason out what you're feeling and why rather than fixing it right away (trait of INFP over Enfp) with focus on reflecting on similar incidents. 

Originally, I thought it was Fe saying that you like harmony within groups and no discord, but now I think that that may well be some opposition to conflict, which would indicate Te to be your inferior function. It doesn't mean you can't form objective ideas or think clearly, but that kind of opposition to conflict inherently, indicates that Te might well be the inferior function, which is Infp, rather than Enfp whose inferior function is Si of which you've already demonstrated use.

The little remark from the ISFJ (I think it was?) irked you, indicating a real Fi thing. Also, a Ti user would have perhaps focused first on the practicalities of the building rather than the ideals of the building, which eliminates Ti. 

In conclusion, I think you may well be an INFP regardless of what the function tests have said, based simply on your posts. Your functions ARE very balanced, so it would be reasonable that your traits would be similar to Enfp and ENTP, which brings me to my next question: have you taken an enneagram test? 

I am an INFP with an enneagrams of 5w6, meaning that in spite of my Infp-ness, I am a head type, meaning that I an an investigative analytical, curious person who can appear to use Te etc. when it's really Fi in disguise. Basically it means that due to my head type-ness, I am often very objective and analytical and open to alternative ideas and such (I am also a scientist) but when you get right to the core, I do identify with being an INFP. What I'm trying to get at, is that although a lot of INFPs can fit the stereotype of frequently being poetic, emotional feelers who talk about literature and photography and changing the world and hugging kittens and their personal inner demons and all of the other stereotypes, it does not eliminate the possibility of being an objective, analytical Infp, which would more-so explain the "confusion" in the balance of your functions. 

I think it would be wise to take the enneagram test. If you come out as a head type, I would strongly consider being an NFP (particularly infp) and similarly if you're a heart type (etc) then I think it would be interesting to investigate the ENTP theory further. 

Fun ideas: Austen literature seems to me to be incredibly interesting to an INFP, being well written and very descriptive. Emma herself might easily have been an INFP. Austen however has previously been thought to be an xNTP, so NTPs might equally find the novel interesting.


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## DOGSOUP (Jan 29, 2016)

aquirkynerd said:


> Fun ideas: Austen literature seems to me to be incredibly interesting to an INFP, being well written and very descriptive. Emma herself might easily have been an INFP. Austen however has previously been thought to be an xNTP, so NTPs might equally find the novel interesting.


Look up Fe-dom from a dictionary and find a picture of Emma Woodhouse  Stereotypically meddling, knows what is best for you, matchmaker extraordinaire, terribly opinionated on relationships and people... Marianne Dashwood might be the NFP of Austenland.

Enneagram suggestion was great... head-type thinkers and heart-type feelers might face some confusion.


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## Rose for a Heart (Nov 14, 2011)

I think it's about how you reach decisions for the most part. Do you go by a personal set of values, and feelings? Is it hard to think about things "logically" maybe and feels draining? That is Fi to me (if you were to be ENFP). ENTP use Ti.


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## DOGSOUP (Jan 29, 2016)

DOGSOUP said:


> head-type thinkers and heart-type feelers might face some confusion.


I honestly cannot believe I wrote that, obviously I meant heart/thinkers and head/feelers, lol. Just another proof one should not write anything when tired...


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## Girl archer (Apr 28, 2016)

DOGSOUP said:


> I am sorta used to digressing... lots of exposure to Ne, surely  I even do it myself sometimes, by accident.
> Some say it cannot be done due to lots of detailed work that N cannot handle, but I never believed in limitations of that sort


Detailed work is pretty darn bad but what I do like is contract review because it takes a pretty clever person to be able to pick apart provisions and find loopholes, which is exciting. But when it is completely mundane stuff, I keep waiting for the work day to get over. Then again there is the sobering realization that the boss is full of hot air. He gave us an enthusiastic speech and then flaked on us, leaving us to deal with the work HE had to be doing. Then I wondered if he was throwing a curveball to see how we would cope and after two days of talking to him/observing interaction with clients as well as his general thought process and behaviour I concluded that he is definitely a methodical detail oriented flake who ups and runs when there is too much work or stuff is close to the deadline. :-/ 



> She typed as ENFP (way too much Te; just bluntly stating things that are obvious, getting real tired of nitpicking and over-explaning/abstracting simple logical problems). There is a chance she is Socionics Alpha (ILE - which translates to ENTP), but that chance is very slim.


I am on my way to take a Socionics test to see what I get. oh, I did the Enneagram test and got 7w8. I think Drunk Parrot mentioned that it was the most common type for ENTP. 




> Definately Ne, but paired with what there... group-thinking or playing the devil's advocate?  Probably latter.


Typically yes, the latter with a bit of former. First I want to see where they stand and sometimes I take an opposite stance just to see how well they will defend theirs. I don't realize when I end up taking it too far, and when the spirited discussion turns into a fight that's when I realize I have ended up in a fight over nothing and by that time even if I were to tell them my original stance (which might be more congruent with theirs), they will think they "won" me over to their side/way of thinking which of course = Unbearable gloating, especially my friends strong on the Te. No offence, but I think those people that use their Te overly are extremely annoying. 



> ... doesn't mean Ne-doms cannot have religious or spiritual views. It is more about openness; understanding worldviews and how they connect to one another, not excluding anything. I've even known SFJs who use their Ne to cherrypick from different ideologies what fits their own subjective views.


I think my view of my faith is definitely more pro-openness than blindly accepting that God will smite me if I don't do this or that. But that is a topic for another thread and another day. I think as I have gotten older, I am getting more comfortable with the old ways, I don't feel the need for rebelling or railing against religion without cause. Organized religion I do have issues with. Anyway, when you say SFJs use their Ne, isn't Ne their weak function? Are they able to use it just as well?



> The difference, in a nutshell: FP prefers to work with personal values and seeking nuance of interaction/relationships, while keeping up with the facts and what objectively makes sense. TP prefers to work with impersonal systems and frameworks, while connecting to people through shared values and pleasant emotional atmosphere.


Here I think I lean a bit more towards TP. Thanks for explaining all this stuff to me.


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## ai.tran.75 (Feb 26, 2014)

DOGSOUP said:


> IRL ENFPs aren't really like... sugar-coated sweet. Overall FPs get too much of this weird attitude. Most can be pretty blunt at times, hard to read emotionally. Sure, at their best they are goodhearted people, who dedicate time to evaluating morals and human nature and give therefore superb moral advice...
> 
> Then... I suppose, Ne does give this air of agnostism to a person... doesn't mean Ne-doms cannot have religious or spiritual views. It is more about openness; understanding worldviews and how they connect to one another, not excluding anything. I've even known SFJs who use their Ne to cherrypick from different ideologies what fits their own subjective views.
> 
> The difference, in a nutshell: FP prefers to work with personal values and seeking nuance of interaction/relationships, while keeping up with the facts and what objectively makes sense. TP prefers to work with impersonal systems and frameworks, while connecting to people through shared values and pleasant emotional atmosphere.


This is quite a good analyzation of Ti vs Fi- I agree with you on the matter of how the stereotype of enfp to be all rainbow and emotionally expressive is quite off---rarely anyone I know can read my emotions- it's only within this forum where people make this assumption


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## Girl archer (Apr 28, 2016)

aquirkynerd said:


> I'm going to pipe up here and throw a spanner in the works. I think you may well be an INFP actually! You undoubtedly have a lot of Ne, I think. I can see it. But I can also see a lot of Fi. Especially from an earlier post where you said something along the lines of not refraining from trying to bring someone to your opinion if you think that's right, and another time when you said you're quite uncomfortable comforting other people when they're upset (more Fe). It seems you use Fi more than Fe, which narrow it down to an NFP rather than an NTP. I'm seeing a lot more Fi in your posts than Ti, personally, which supports that idea. So let's say your Ne and Fi kind of work together and neither is very dominant. Look at the other two. You saying (I'm paraphrasing) that you think of times gone by when something bad happened to you or you felt bad or whatever you said when you're feeling down, is indicative of a more Fi-Si loop. You feel low, you try to reason out what you're feeling and why rather than fixing it right away (trait of INFP over Enfp) with focus on reflecting on similar incidents.


Hello, spanner in the works. Thanks for commenting and offering an alternative perspective. I have read just enough about si to realize that it is in fact my weak spot. As for reasoning out my feelings and WHY, that is how I fix my feelings issues. When I figure out what is making me feel that way, I get to the root of the problem that is causing it, remedy that and most of the time, the sadness or whatever negative emotion goes away. I am not really always aware of how I am feeling, or what my personal values are regarding something. Unless I have thought it over and worked it out. But most of the time, I am open to idea/perspective shift with incoming new data be it in the realm of feelings or personal values.



> Originally, I thought it was Fe saying that you like harmony within groups and no discord, but now I think that that may well be some opposition to conflict, which would indicate Te to be your inferior function. It doesn't mean you can't form objective ideas or think clearly, but that kind of opposition to conflict inherently, indicates that Te might well be the inferior function, which is Infp, rather than Enfp whose inferior function is Si of which you've already demonstrated use.


Fair enough, but on numerous occasions when I id take the keys2cognition or similarminds test I havee scored the lowest values on the Se/Si scale. Ti is higher than Te, there is a good use of Fi as well. Ne is the highest, succeeded by Ni or Ti (actually the results are extremely balanced with <5% difference between each which leads me to wonder if the way questions are framed or if some inherent test bias may have tilted the results in that manner)



> The little remark from the ISFJ (I think it was?) irked you, indicating a real Fi thing. Also, a Ti user would have perhaps focused first on the practicalities of the building rather than the ideals of the building, which eliminates Ti.


Define practicalities of the building, any number of things could come under that. My friend that ticked me off in that example is an ISTJ. I view bills and taxes as a necessary evil and laborious thing, one that I almost forget but do pay just within the deadline, reminded by the more "foot on the ground" type people in my life including that ISTJ. 



> In conclusion, I think you may well be an INFP regardless of what the function tests have said, based simply on your posts. Your functions ARE very balanced, so it would be reasonable that your traits would be similar to Enfp and ENTP, which brings me to my next question: have you taken an enneagram test?
> 
> I am an INFP with an enneagrams of 5w6, meaning that in spite of my Infp-ness, I am a head type, meaning that I an an investigative analytical, curious person who can appear to use Te etc. when it's really Fi in disguise. Basically it means that due to my head type-ness, I am often very objective and analytical and open to alternative ideas and such (I am also a scientist) but when you get right to the core, I do identify with being an INFP. What I'm trying to get at, is that although a lot of INFPs can fit the stereotype of frequently being poetic, emotional feelers who talk about literature and photography and changing the world and hugging kittens and their personal inner demons and all of the other stereotypes, it does not eliminate the possibility of being an objective, analytical Infp, which would more-so explain the "confusion" in the balance of your functions.


Interesting! Thanks for explaining that stuff and giving your own example. I have taken the enneagram and gotten 7w8 as my result. Is that a head or heart type?



> Fun ideas: Austen literature seems to me to be incredibly interesting to an INFP, being well written and very descriptive. Emma herself might easily have been an INFP. Austen however has previously been thought to be an xNTP, so NTPs might equally find the novel interesting.


I have known Emma to actually be typed as INFJ or even ESFJ (but not a mature one is what some sites said), so what you say about her maybe being an INFP is certainly food for thought. Knightley is definitely some kind of an SJ. Emma - NT and SP can be ruled out, I think as far as Keirsey temperaments go. Is Colonel Brandon an ISTJ? I think he is actually one of the better characters Jane created. Then again, my soft spot or bias towards him could simply be that Alan Rickman just... made for a fantastic Colonel Brandon. My actual favourite is Henry Tilney slotted by most people as an ENTP but he has a high degree of Fi too. Like when his father tries to dissuade him from going into the Church or marrying Catherine, a girl beneath their station. Um, anyway so I lost track of what I wanted to say ) I have known people of all types to enjoy Austenian literature (mostly girls though, I think boys don't like to come out and publicly admit to reading it or liking it.) cuz there is a little something for everyone. Social commentary, satire, humour, intelligent observations, romance, drama blah blah...


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## Girl archer (Apr 28, 2016)

DOGSOUP said:


> Look up Fe-dom from a dictionary and find a picture of Emma Woodhouse  Stereotypically meddling, knows what is best for you, matchmaker extraordinaire, terribly opinionated on relationships and people... Marianne Dashwood might be the NFP of Austenland.
> 
> Enneagram suggestion was great... head-type thinkers and heart-type feelers might face some confusion.


I find Marianne fascinating. She seems to be of another world altogether, with a haunting, ethereal quality (at least from the performance I saw in the movie). Again, all this probably boils down to excellent casting choices ore than anything else. Like Gwyneth Paltrow as Emma, Jeremy Northam as Knightley, or Alan Rickman as Colonel Brandon and Kate Winslet as his Marianne, or What's-his-name as Henry Tilney.


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## Girl archer (Apr 28, 2016)

Azalea said:


> I think it's about how you reach decisions for the most part. Do you go by a personal set of values, and feelings? Is it hard to think about things "logically" maybe and feels draining? That is Fi to me (if you were to be ENFP). ENTP use Ti.


Thanks for chiming in. I reach decisions logically almost to the point that it appears very Te like but it is not. I read somewhere that Ne+Ti could easily be confused for Te reaction, Thinking about things logically isn't hard for me to do. 



DOGSOUP said:


> I honestly cannot believe I wrote that, obviously I meant heart/thinkers and head/feelers, lol. Just another proof one should not write anything when tired...


Lol! Head feelers just brought to mind an image of checking someone for lice.



ai.tran.75 said:


> This is quite a good analyzation of Ti vs Fi- I agree with you on the matter of how the stereotype of enfp to be all rainbow and emotionally expressive is quite off---rarely anyone I know can read my emotions- it's only within this forum where people make this assumption


Thanks for debunking the stereotype/myth about ENFP ai.tran.75!


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## Girl archer (Apr 28, 2016)

The results of my Socionics test

http://www.sociotype.com/tests/result/est/169379


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## ai.tran.75 (Feb 26, 2014)

Girl archer said:


> The results of my Socionics test
> 
> http://www.sociotype.com/tests/result/est/169379


Quite sure you're entp  what make you question your type ?


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## Girl archer (Apr 28, 2016)

ai.tran.75 said:


> Quite sure you're entp  what make you question your type ?


Cuz I have tested many times as ENFP as well, I read up on both types. There were parts of both that seemed to fit me well, and then some that did not. Like ENTPs being known extraordinarily for their ingenious streak or hyper-sexual behaviour, neither of which I can identify with but then again there isn't much scope for doing things my own way in my profession. Law demands that things be done a certain way, in accordance with legislations, rules or statutes. Very little room for maneuvring actually. As you may have seen in my similar minds result, I have a strong fi or a Fi that is frequently well-used, which made me wonder about my probably being ENFP.


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## ai.tran.75 (Feb 26, 2014)

Girl archer said:


> Cuz I have tested many times as ENFP as well, I read up on both types. There were parts of both that seemed to fit me well, and then some that did not. Like ENTPs being known extraordinarily for their ingenious streak or hyper-sexual behaviour, neither of which I can identify with but then again there isn't much scope for doing things my own way in my profession. Law demands that things be done a certain way, in accordance with legislations, rules or statutes. Very little room for maneuvring actually. As you may have seen in my similar minds result, I have a strong fi or a Fi that is frequently well-used, which made me wonder about my probably being ENFP.


i think you would have to read up on functions to understand which mbti or socionic type you are- everything else would be considered a stereotype, its quite common for enfp and entp to be alike because we share the same dominant function( Ne which is that we gain energy through ideas and connection) and inferior function( Si) 
the main differ to look at is FiTe vis TiFe- 
Fi is pretty much your own systematic map of your own and internal emotion- you connect with others by putting yourself within that situation and do whats best for the situation as to Ti is a map of its own systematic logic
a good comparison would that if you're prone to values and ethical issues then you're an enfp and if you view things more logically then Entp
your test score doesnt really signify much of a result (hence a lot of people mistype themselves) i have a tendency to test as entp most of the time however I dont use Ti and definitely not Fe =)


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## DOGSOUP (Jan 29, 2016)

Girl archer said:


> I am on my way to take a Socionics test to see what I get. oh, I did the Enneagram test and got 7w8. I think Drunk Parrot mentioned that it was the most common type for ENTP.


7 definately goes well with Se and Ne dominants... and btw your Socionics result was pretty much weighted on Thinking.



> Typically yes, the latter with a bit of former. First I want to see where they stand and sometimes I take an opposite stance just to see how well they will defend theirs. I don't realize when I end up taking it too far, and when the spirited discussion turns into a fight that's when I realize I have ended up in a fight over nothing and by that time even if I were to tell them my original stance (which might be more congruent with theirs), they will think they "won" me over to their side/way of thinking which of course = Unbearable gloating, especially my friends strong on the Te. No offence, but I think those people that use their Te overly are extremely annoying.


Ne is known to contradict itself in one sentence -- Exaggeration, but it illuminates this point quite well. It isn't really seen as a problem, rather as a good thing to be able to see something from several different points of view.



> I think my view of my faith is definitely more pro-openness than blindly accepting that God will smite me if I don't do this or that. But that is a topic for another thread and another day. *I think as I have gotten older, I am getting more comfortable with the old ways*, I don't feel the need for rebelling or railing against religion without cause. Organized religion I do have issues with. Anyway, when you say SFJs use their Ne, isn't Ne their weak function? Are they able to use it just as well?


This is interesting subject... we were just discussing the Si-doms passive opennes to Ne in another thread. Basically, how I see inferior/weak functions: it is going to cause problems. Inferior functions nag at us (in Socionics, there is also separation to PoLR and Suggestive function, which is rather interesting); at the same time they are something we value and almost _need _to use to balance our leading functions - but still causing trouble, anxiety, neurotism... some suppress them, some actively engage them in different ways - can go both ways, really.

The bolded was interesting... because it is possible for Ne-doms to embrace these traditions of their community as they develope Si. 



> Here I think I lean a bit more towards TP. Thanks for explaining all this stuff to me.


You are very welcome!



Girl archer said:


> I find Marianne fascinating. She seems to be of another world altogether, with a haunting, ethereal quality (at least from the performance I saw in the movie). Again, all this probably boils down to excellent casting choices ore than anything else. Like Gwyneth Paltrow as Emma, Jeremy Northam as Knightley, or Alan Rickman as Colonel Brandon and Kate Winslet as his Marianne, or What's-his-name as Henry Tilney.


I have noticed that N-dominants have this ethereal quality... I think Marianne is a good example of Ne distanced of reality. She also values Fi: authenticity, deep abstract feeling - and expresses it either poetically, or quite bluntly through Te.

Charity Wakefield also made a very good interpretation of Marianne. Haunting performance indeed. Tragedy is real. Glad she has so many STJs around her for support (Elinor, Brandon).


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## Girl archer (Apr 28, 2016)

DOGSOUP said:


> This is interesting subject... we were just discussing the Si-doms passive opennes to Ne in another thread. Basically, how I see inferior/weak functions: it is going to cause problems. Inferior functions nag at us (in Socionics, there is also separation to PoLR and Suggestive function, which is rather interesting); at the same time they are something we value and almost _need _to use to balance our leading functions - but still causing trouble, anxiety, neurotism... some suppress them, some actively engage them in different ways - can go both ways, really.


 That is definitely a very interesting topic. Can you share that link with me? I would like to read up some more on inferior functions. 



> The bolded was interesting... because it is possible for Ne-doms to embrace these traditions of their community as they develope Si.


Speaking of community traditions, I wonder if ENTPs have the ability to sustain long-term fulfilling romantic relationships such as matrimony? If so, should they marry other NTs? Or maybe off set their NT with an NF partner? Oh and on an unrelated note, if you follow(ed) Disney Princesses and the likes of them, would you say there has ever been an ENTP Disney Princess or even female Disney character? Some say Esmeralda (did I spell that right?) is an ENTP because of how quick she was with sleight of hand, and her trickery et cetera, but she also had a very strong Fi right? She didn't want to do things that went against the interests of the land and that of her gypsy community? Or am I reading too much into this? How about Rapunzel from Tangled? 



> Charity Wakefield also made a very good interpretation of Marianne. Haunting performance indeed. Tragedy is real. Glad she has so many STJs around her for support (Elinor, Brandon).


I haven't seen the Charity Wakefield version. Elinor (no offence to Emma Thompson who is a wonderful actress) somehow just rubbed me the wrong way. Even in the books. For me, Marianne>Elizabeth>Emma>Eleanor Tilney>Anne Elliot>Elinor>Fanny. I just perceive the two to be rather not worthy of being heroines. A heroine needs to be likeable but not needy for attention, bold without being crass (yes, Mary Crawford and Lydia, I am talking to you "ladies") not just take what she is given or wait an eternity to say anything, tender but fierce at the same time...Ugh so many contradictions at once. If you asked me to describe myself that is how I would describe myself as well. Not as a heroine, I mean. Bundle of contradictions.

P.S. Do you know of this tumblr site called funkymbtifiction.tumblr.com? If you do, do you find the typing on there accurate? Of late, it has become one of my favourite sites, apart from this one. You can see the way the same functions manifest so differently in various fictional characters which is pretty awesome, I think.


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## DOGSOUP (Jan 29, 2016)

Girl archer said:


> That is definitely a very interesting topic. Can you share that link with me? I would like to read up some more on inferior functions.


I'll dig it up for you, sure!



> Speaking of community traditions, I wonder if ENTPs have the ability to sustain long-term fulfilling romantic relationships such as matrimony? If so, should they marry other NTs? Or maybe off set their NT with an NF partner? Oh and on an unrelated note, if you follow(ed) Disney Princesses and the likes of them, would you say there has ever been an ENTP Disney Princess or even female Disney character? Some say Esmeralda (did I spell that right?) is an ENTP because of how quick she was with sleight of hand, and her trickery et cetera, but she also had a very strong Fi right? She didn't want to do things that went against the interests of the land and that of her gypsy community? Or am I reading too much into this? How about Rapunzel from Tangled?


Oddly Developed Types  has some statistics on relationships, temperament etc. but I am not sure how reliable that information is.

ENTP females aren't that common in fiction... Esmeralda I have seen typed as Fe-dom (fight for social justice), but haven't seen Hunchback so can't say for sure. Rapunzel is usually typed either ENTP or ESFJ. Strong Fe and Ne anyway.



> I haven't seen the Charity Wakefield version. Elinor (no offence to Emma Thompson who is a wonderful actress) somehow just rubbed me the wrong way. Even in the books. For me, Marianne>Elizabeth>Emma>Eleanor Tilney>Anne Elliot>Elinor>Fanny. I just perceive the two to be rather not worthy of being heroines. A heroine needs to be likeable but not needy for attention, bold without being crass (yes, Mary Crawford and Lydia, I am talking to you "ladies") not just take what she is given or wait an eternity to say anything, tender but fierce at the same time...Ugh so many contradictions at once. If you asked me to describe myself that is how I would describe myself as well. Not as a heroine, I mean. Bundle of contradictions.


Your description of heroine reminds me of the way Austen wrote, actually... Marianne perhaps makes the best lead for those who seek the heroine you described. She creates most of the _romantic_, adventurous atmopshere. I liked how Elinor balanced her, the two of them had what I'd call symbiotic relationship. Duals. Elizabeth Bennet is probably my favorite, but then again, who wouldn't love Lizzy? Boo, unoriginal choice, I don't mind. She is great.



> P.S. Do you know of this tumblr site called funkymbtifiction.tumblr.com? If you do, do you find the typing on there accurate? Of late, it has become one of my favourite sites, apart from this one. You can see the way the same functions manifest so differently in various fictional characters which is pretty awesome, I think.


I like that site and find it beneficial and helpful. However, I prefer their insight on types over fictional typings (since fictional characters are more often than not pretty bound to stereotypes). Have you seen these definitions ? They are pretty awesome, simplified principles and mechanics.


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## ai.tran.75 (Feb 26, 2014)

Girl archer said:


> Speaking of community traditions, I wonder if ENTPs have the ability to sustain long-term fulfilling romantic relationships such as matrimony? If so, should they marry other NTs? Or maybe off set their NT with an NF partner? Oh and on an unrelated note, if you follow(ed) Disney Princesses and the likes of them, would you say there has ever been an ENTP Disney Princess or even female Disney character? Some say Esmeralda (did I spell that right?) is an ENTP because of how quick she was with sleight of hand, and her trickery et cetera, but she also had a very strong Fi right? She didn't want to do things that went against the interests of the land and that of her gypsy community? Or am I reading too much into this? How about Rapunzel from Tangled?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It really depends on the person or entp when it comes to sustaining marriage or long term relationship ...some would never want to be tied down others are married with kids - my uncle has been married to his wife for more than 50 years ...as to my dad can never sustain a long term relationship ( parent divorced before I turned 1) 
Rapunzel and Esmeralda are Fe Dom - rapunzel is definitely an ESFJ- no Ne Dom would agree to be locked up in a castle for that long - upon Disney character who are entp - have you seen the sword in the stone ? Quite sure Merlin is one  
Bundle of contradictions - pretty much an Ne trait - 
Funky mbti I find to be most accurate on typing fictional characters ...
the author herself is pretty active on this website - she's an enfp


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## Girl archer (Apr 28, 2016)

DOGSOUP said:


> I'll dig it up for you, sure!
> 
> Oddly Developed Types  has some statistics on relationships, temperament etc. but I am not sure how reliable that information is.


Will look at this, thanks. 



> ENTP females aren't that common in fiction... Esmeralda I have seen typed as Fe-dom (fight for social justice), but haven't seen Hunchback so can't say for sure. Rapunzel is usually typed either ENTP or ESFJ. Strong Fe and Ne anyway.


The interesting thing about Rapunzel is that I kind of think of her as more Ni than Ne. Look how she had that one goal to see the lights, set herself free (though she didn't see herself as being imprisoned cuz she loved Mother Gothel), also the time when she says "I just know they are for me" when describing the floating lights. That's introverted intuition right? She had nothing to go off on, but she reached that conclusion correctly. She also trusted her instincts when it came to choosing a wanted felon as a companion on her adventure. Granted, she was quick with her reflexes and handy with the pan but still :laughing: I think she expressed herself well, she was warm and brought cheer to even those thugs in the tavern (that seemed very ENFP to me). She embraced her family with almost no hesitation for someone who hadn't seen them in two ish decades. That is developed Fi right? I am just wrapping my head around the functions, still. She seems very ENFP to me, the dancing in the town square, the singing in the tavern and the way she is easily manipulated by Mother Gothel. Wouldn't an ENTP have figured out that Mother Gothel (that old hag!) was keeping her from the outside world for her own selfish motives? Then again, wouldn't any Ni have seen through that, been able to read between the lines and realize something was fishy? SJs are the security-oriented guardians right? The ones that just want to settle down? Which seems like the exact antithesis of what Rapunzel wanted. Alright enough about Rapunzel, let's talk about another Princess that is commonly xSFJ. Cinderella. If you look at her as a product of her times and then look at her actions, wouldn't you type her differently? Her sass at her "sisters", her defiance to do what her heart desires, her taking steps to making it happen, she wanted to have a grand time at the Ball and did everything in her power to make it happen. Pretty crafty (art pun intended) indeed, wouldn't you say? She wasn't a meek mouse, I think she embodies a sort of the stereotype of the 50s woman. Even so, I think she defies the stereotype. Especially in a sequel to the original movie where she is shown to be deeply unhappy because being a Princess means that she loses touch with who she is, her real self etc... Anyway, what would you type her as? 



> Your description of heroine reminds me of the way Austen wrote, actually...


That is a huge compliment :blushed:Although perhaps, while writing about that I was maybe sub-consciously influenced by the Austenian writing style? I think way too much. 



> Marianne perhaps makes the best lead for those who seek the heroine you described. She creates most of the _romantic_, adventurous atmopshere. I liked how Elinor balanced her, the two of them had what I'd call symbiotic relationship. Duals.


Agreed. She does serve as a foil to the dreamy Marianne, but there is the danger of falling into the literary trap of viewing her as "boring". She has some wondeful qualities, I am sure but they pale when you compare those virtues against the dramatic, romantic, ethereal Marianne who is much more relatable to most people in their teens. Haven't we all had Willoughbys in our life? Whether we succumbed to them or not is a different question, but who wouldn't be taken in by that charming scoundrel? Btw, I do like their sisterly dynamic. It is by far the most well written sisterly dynamic, only followed by Jane and Lizzy (who you adore, and I do too). 



> I like that site and find it beneficial and helpful. However, I prefer their insight on types over fictional typings (since fictional characters are more often than not pretty bound to stereotypes). Have you seen these definitions ? They are pretty awesome, simplified principles and mechanics.


I will go look this up, thanks for sharing these cool links @DOGSOUP.


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## Girl archer (Apr 28, 2016)

ai.tran.75 said:


> It really depends on the person or entp when it comes to sustaining marriage or long term relationship ...


 But don't ENTP supposedly bore or tire of people faster than anyone else? Add to that a hyper-sexual instinct (according to some infographic someone had posted here a while back) which apparently most ENTPs do have, and it is like the deck is stacked against ENTPs as far as the proverbial happily ever after is concerned. 



> Rapunzel and Esmeralda are Fe Dom - rapunzel is definitely an ESFJ- no Ne Dom would agree to be locked up in a castle for that long - upon Disney character who are entp - have you seen the sword in the stone ? Quite sure Merlin is one


Merlin, yes. but I was looking at female ENTPs in Disney. Heck, I will even take non-animated ones. As for Rapunzel, everything you say makes sense on the assumption that she knew she was locked up. She did hunger to see the world, and have adventures BUT she didn't see herself as a prisoner, did she? She just thought Gothel was protecting her from a scary, big, bad world outside.

Oh hey, what about Jasmine? I have seen her being typed as ENTP somewhere. 



> Bundle of contradictions - pretty much an Ne trait -
> Funky mbti I find to be most accurate on typing fictional characters ...
> the author herself is pretty active on this website - she's an enfp


Oh good, so it is an Ne thing. I thought I was just some kind of weirdo with an unformed personality or multiple personality. :laughing:


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## ai.tran.75 (Feb 26, 2014)

Girl archer said:


> Will look at this, thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Rapunzel uses a lot of introvert Sensing- connecting meaning to object - Ni is more future focus and collecting of details to reach an aha moment ! Warm and brought cheer to everyone is Fe ( Fe are warm and can warm up a crowd - fi is more subjective and singular focus ) embracing family without seeing them for decade is definitely more Fe-Si - introvert feeling pretty much means putting self into one place to guess out the outcome - understanding oneself and identity completely - Rapunzel has no use of Fi - 
Enfp if we go by cog function aren't easily manipulated and cannot be tied down - fi in itself demands individuality and Ne is a force to be reckon with - put those 2 together - quite impulsive and stubborn - good example of enfp - Anne Shirley or Maris Vonn Trapp of sound of music - Both entp and enfp would rebel if freedom is taken away from them - ask any enfp - they cannot be tied down and their worst fear is to be boxed up - introvert sensing believe and extrovert feeling combine would trust others knows the best for oneself - introvert feeling is pretty much I know who I am and what I want don't you dare cross my boundaries - Fe users don't mind getting their feelings analyze if correct and often time are more open - fi whether or not you're correct on analyzing my feelings or thoughts how dare you invade 
Any type can dance in town square - it's not type related 
Cinderella is isfj so Si Dom - Rapunzel Fe Dom the positioning is differ but still character are both the same they believe others want the best for them and is willing to sacrifice .


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## DOGSOUP (Jan 29, 2016)

Girl archer said:


> Her sass at her "sisters", her defiance to do what her heart desires, her taking steps to making it happen, she wanted to have a grand time at the Ball and did everything in her power to make it happen. Pretty crafty (art pun intended) indeed, wouldn't you say? She wasn't a meek mouse, I think she embodies a sort of the stereotype of the 50s woman. Even so, I think she defies the stereotype. Especially in a sequel to the original movie where she is shown to be deeply unhappy because being a Princess means that she loses touch with who she is, her real self etc... Anyway, what would you type her as?


Idealized SFJ in the 50s will be very different from idealized SFJ nowadays. Culture and upbringing are big factors here. @ai.tran.75 already explained about the subjective perspective of Si (thanks, I wouldn't have remembered reasoning for Rapunzel anyway!) So, bearing that in mind, Cinderella might well be SFJ. I take her as one, mainly due to fairytale-mythology. I'm not sure whether the conflict in sequels you described there stems from Fi being wronged (her authentic self being violated by external standards) or because she preferred her old life better (Si pulling from personal experiences creating a mythological past).



> That is a huge compliment :blushed:Although perhaps, while writing about that I was maybe sub-consciously influenced by the Austenian writing style? I think way too much.


Yes, you think and second-guess a lot! no harm there. Austen's text has a very particular flavor to it - I do believe Ne/Si is can excell at picking up these literary flavors and implementing them on their own writing (not to forget how much our subconscious loves to conjure things from seemingly thin air -- Jung would probably love all of this!).



> Agreed. She does serve as a foil to the dreamy Marianne, but there is the danger of falling into the literary trap of viewing her as "boring". She has some wondeful qualities, I am sure but they pale when you compare those virtues against the dramatic, romantic, ethereal Marianne who is much more relatable to most people in their teens. Haven't we all had Willoughbys in our life? Whether we succumbed to them or not is a different question, but who wouldn't be taken in by that charming scoundrel? Btw, I do like their sisterly dynamic. It is by far the most well written sisterly dynamic, only followed by Jane and Lizzy (who you adore, and I do too).


I agree that Marianne better personifies that emotional tempest aka. teenage. Then again, there will always be those reasonable, sensible Elinors who need to have their literary character as well. I can't help noticing that Austen's dynamics always seem to have one savvy/knowledgeable (Elinor, Lizzy) and the other naive/romantic (Marianne, Jane). It works really well as for social commentary.

What comes to this Willoughby/Wickham -character... I can't really react to them without premonitions of them being just "a little adventure" or dangerous element to the storyline before entering a decent, civil marriage... I can't say if Austen is lecturing here a bit, or if she is just being ironic. Her writing is pretty layered, and often overlooked just as a pioneer of romantic comedies.


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## ai.tran.75 (Feb 26, 2014)

Girl archer said:


> But don't ENTP supposedly bore or tire of people faster than anyone else? Add to that a hyper-sexual instinct (according to some infographic someone had posted here a while back) which apparently most ENTPs do have, and it is like the deck is stacked against ENTPs as far as the proverbial happily ever after is concerned.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Stereotypically all perceiving Dom get bored and tired of people - but upon a persons feeling and emotion and the compatibility with one another then commitment can be made- I think it's fair to say that entp will fight for and be extremely loyal to whom they love - my best friend is an entp - she would risk her life for her family 
Also if you can find a partner who stimulate your mind and excites you then later on form a close friendship and trust with that partner then marriage is form - I saw many married entp on this site does have Fe as a tert so they're not emotionless - I would go as far as saying that entp are the most aware of others emotion out of all the thinker type 

And that's Fe right there on what you described about Rapunzel - she chooses to trust that Gothel is protecting her- she is ok with idealizing ( Low use of Ne) the outside world but is ok with the familiarity of her own home ( introvert sensing ) compare her to Ariel from the little mermaid who is actually being protected from her father - she spree the immediate chance she gets ( a quite impulsive dangerous decision ) Ne must live out their ideal and curiosity - I rather be hurt then not know anything at all - hence all Perceiving Dom (Ne/Se) are known to be impulsive 
Rapunzel is content with familiarity and even find comfort in it ( introvert sensing )she doesn't feel trapped( J function ) - she never question Gothel or fight for her freedom bc she assume Gothel is protecting her - she sees the best in people ( extrovert feeling ) 
Big scary unknown - who cares ? I'll find out myself is more of what an exxp to do Ne to chase the ideal as to Se to chase the experience - curiosity kills the cat pretty much for better or worst 

Jasmine is an ESFP - she uses fi - she knows who she is what she wants and go after it - she cannot be tied down - she's more down to earth and spatially aware - she couldn't care less about what's inside the kingdom she needs to venture outside to * experience * for herself . She's not warm and put other needs before her ( Fi) she reads through Aladdin and Jafar Bs- she understand her father wants the best for her but she rather follow through with what she wants (Fi) 
She gain energy through exploring and experience and her 5 senses ( extrovert sensing ) she doesn't idealize or connect ideas to something and live it out(Ne) she feels trapped and must run out( Se)

Have you seen Pulp Fiction ? Mia Wallace is a good example - or Helena from Midsummers Night Dream - Harley Quinn from Dc comic oh and my fave Annie Hall 


Oh yeah Ne is pretty much walking contradiction in itself


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## Girl archer (Apr 28, 2016)

ai.tran.75 said:


> Stereotypically all perceiving Dom get bored and tired of people - but upon a persons feeling and emotion and the compatibility with one another then commitment can be made- I think it's fair to say that entp will fight for and be extremely loyal to whom they love - my best friend is an entp - she would risk her life for her family
> Also if you can find a partner who stimulate your mind and excites you then later on form a close friendship and trust with that partner then marriage is form - I saw many married entp on this site does have Fe as a tert so they're not emotionless - I would go as far as saying that entp are the most aware of others emotion out of all the thinker type


Thank you, I am learning so much from you already! So, ENTPs are kind of a special breed? Most introverted extroverts, and the most in touch with their emotions? They probably get mistyped a lot, don't they? In your knowledge and experience, which type is most prone to getting mistyped?



> And that's Fe right there on what you described about Rapunzel - she chooses to trust that Gothel is protecting her- she is ok with idealizing ( Low use of Ne) the outside world but is ok with the familiarity of her own home ( introvert sensing ) compare her to Ariel from the little mermaid who is actually being protected from her father - she spree the immediate chance she gets ( a quite impulsive dangerous decision ) Ne must live out their ideal and curiosity - I rather be hurt then not know anything at all - hence all Perceiving Dom (Ne/Se) are known to be impulsive
> Rapunzel is content with familiarity and even find comfort in it ( introvert sensing )she doesn't feel trapped( J function ) - she never question Gothel or fight for her freedom bc she assume Gothel is protecting her - she sees the best in people ( extrovert feeling )
> Big scary unknown - who cares ? I'll find out myself is more of what an exxp to do Ne to chase the ideal as to Se to chase the experience - curiosity kills the cat pretty much for better or worst


Thanks for breaking it down, that really helped.



> Jasmine is an ESFP - she uses fi - she knows who she is what she wants and go after it - she cannot be tied down - she's more down to earth and spatially aware - she couldn't care less about what's inside the kingdom she needs to venture outside to * experience * for herself . She's not warm and put other needs before her ( Fi) she reads through Aladdin and Jafar Bs- she understand her father wants the best for her but she rather follow through with what she wants (Fi)
> She gain energy through exploring and experience and her 5 senses ( extrovert sensing ) she doesn't idealize or connect ideas to something and live it out(Ne) she feels trapped and must run out( Se)


I haven't seen it, but I will take your word for this one. 



> Have you seen Pulp Fiction ? Mia Wallace is a good example - or Helena from Midsummers Night Dream - Harley Quinn from Dc comic oh and my fave Annie Hall
> Oh yeah Ne is pretty much walking contradiction in itself


So, you are saying these are ENTP? Harley Quinn? So her and the Joker are a double ENTP couple? (weren't there some comics where there was sort of a hero worship/one sided romance between the two partners-in-crime? She should have been able to cut through his BS and see that he was just using her as a means to an end. But maybe she knew and didn't care? Oh, the tragedy of unrequited love :-/


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## Girl archer (Apr 28, 2016)

DOGSOUP said:


> So, bearing that in mind, Cinderella might well be SFJ. I take her as one, mainly due to fairytale-mythology. I'm not sure whether the conflict in sequels you described there stems from Fi being wronged (her authentic self being violated by external standards) or because she preferred her old life better (Si pulling from personal experiences creating a mythological past).


I have just finished watching the sequel and it is all about following your own heart, going where your dreams take you. The most telling scene is when she is failing at finishing school (part of a Princess's education apparently) and she realizes as she looks in the mirror "It is not me, I do things best the way I do them", then there is a song where defies all the rules, plucks the rule book out of her tutor's hands gently but firmly, admonishing her and then asking her to dance. So, I think (but I could be wrong here) this demonstrates a good Fi usage rather than the comfort of her old ways. She even helps Anastasia get together with the town baker, against stepmother's wishes. 



> I agree that Marianne better personifies that emotional tempest aka. teenage. Then again, there will always be those reasonable, sensible Elinors who need to have their literary character as well. I can't help noticing that Austen's dynamics always seem to have one savvy/knowledgeable (Elinor, Lizzy) and the other naive/romantic (Marianne, Jane). It works really well as for social commentary.


Tempest, yes! That is the word I was looking for. I think the most telling moment there was she snuck out as it was about to rain, to go see Willoughby one last time and then she ends up getting soaked to the bone as well as getting pneumonia. Very good observation about the sibling dynamic. Could one extend that to Darcy/Georgiana, Caroline/Bingley (one knowledgeable and the other, the romantic even though Caroline didn't exactly have his best interests at heart)? Or Jane or Lizzy/Lydia? Although Lydia isn't so much a naive romantic. I think she and Mary Crawford know exactly what they are doing, but I think Lydia does it because she is unaware of the ramifications of her actions. She is 16 when she elopes right? Catherine at age 17 is said to be "as vapid and uninformed as the female mind is at seventeen years" (I have read these way too many times!) so one can't exactly expect her to even think of the consequences like social humiliation, or getting ostracized, or getting knocked up and then being deserted by Wicked Wickham. I think Lydia could be ESFP. Would you agree with that? 



> What comes to this Willoughby/Wickham -character... I can't really react to them without premonitions of them being just "a little adventure" or dangerous element to the storyline before entering a decent, civil marriage... I can't say if Austen is lecturing here a bit, or if she is just being ironic. Her writing is pretty layered, and often overlooked just as a pioneer of romantic comedies.


Austen is an extremely perceptive and intelligent woman, whose writings are rather under-rated. I wonder if she would have garnered greater appreciation if she had gone rowling's route and picked a pseudonym or written as J. Austen.


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## ai.tran.75 (Feb 26, 2014)

Girl archer said:


> Thank you, I am learning so much from you already! So, ENTPs are kind of a special breed? Most introverted extroverts, and the most in touch with their emotions? They probably get mistyped a lot, don't they? In your knowledge and experience, which type is most prone to getting mistyped?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Both entp and enfp are the most introverted extrovert bc our dominant function Ne- pretty much mean we gain energy through connection and external ideas - 
Yeah entp is a rare breed - cognitive function speaking 
Extrovert intuition 
Introvert thinking 
Extrovert feeling 
Introvert sensing 
You see the thinking and feeling stack is right next to one another and if you're tert function is strong then you'll be emotionally aware  
Yeah entp get mistyped a lot - along with enfps ----bc a lot are introverted extrovert or have high feeling or high thinking it's easy for them to mistype themselves - a lot of intp later on find out that they're actually entp - 
Or an entp might confuse themselves to be enfp bc they too have feelings lol 
Or in weirder case a lot of ESFJ / isfj mistype themselves as enfp /infp bc they are friendly and creative - however once you break function down its quite different 

Yeah Harley is Entp - perhaps she didn't care or people are blind when in love ( regardless thinker /feelers )


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## Girl archer (Apr 28, 2016)

ai.tran.75 said:


> - a lot of intp later on find out that they're actually entp -
> Or an entp might confuse themselves to be enfp bc they too have feelings lol


THAT was exactly why I opened this thread. Both of those have happened to me. A decade back, I got INTP and now ENTP. Also, I got ENFP couple of times. Connor Walsh from How to get away with Murder is supposedly a very good example of ENTP and I thought there is no way I am like that. I have feelings, and I am aware of them, and I express myself (though that bit has gotten better over time)


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## CBC (May 9, 2011)

I find people reveal more about themselves in the way they describe themselves, rather than what they are actually saying. You seem way too earnest and soulful and modest to be an ENTP to me :tongue: And btw, Oscar Wilde, the writer quoted in your avi, was a major ENFP.

I think it's pretty weird you think Jane Austen is underrated. Among literate women, she is almost a messianic figure. There are etiquette guides on how to be like Jane Austen, there were popular horror parodies of her novels, there was a recent movie called the Jane Austen book club, her books were adapted into high profile films in the 90's. Her work is very much a part of our cultural consciousness even today. She is probably considered to be the greatest female novelist of all-time and I would argue is more widely read than Dickens these days. I wouldn't say she is overlooked at all.

Harry Potter came out less than 20 years ago. Pride and Prejudice over 200 years ago. We shall see how well people remember Hogwarts in a couple centuries.


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