# Developing a weak Se



## devoid (Jan 3, 2011)

I've always been aware of my near complete lack of extroverted sensing. It might not be so painfully obvious if I didn't also have a truly awful short term memory and next to no 3D visualization (or any mental visualization ability). The combination makes it almost impossible for me to drive a car, navigate new places, and even perform simple non-daily tasks like buying subway tickets.

So here's the deal: I know that my brain isn't done growing. In fact, if I continue stimulating it regularly it will never be done growing. I don't know if I could stand to live for another 60 years with a mind that's so full of potential, yet embarrassingly lame at interacting with the outside world. Furthermore, I'm an artist. I hope to create the new from the inspirations of the old, and my lack of sensing ability can feel terribly crippling to my art. I want to know how I can develop a stronger Se - not that it will ever come completely easily to me, or naturally, but just enough to work with.

Please, if you have any ideas share them! I'm especially interested to hear what the ESTPs and ESFPs have to say about this, but other opinions are equally valuable. In case it helps, here is my cognitive functions score:

Cognitive Process	Level of Development (Preference, Skill and Frequency of Use)
extraverted Sensing (Se) ****************** (18.5)
limited use
introverted Sensing (Si) ************************** (26.6)
average use
extraverted Intuiting (Ne) ****************************************** (42.7)
excellent use
introverted Intuiting (Ni) ********************************** (34.6)
good use
extraverted Thinking (Te) *************************** (27.6)
average use
introverted Thinking (Ti) ********************************** (34.8)
good use
extraverted Feeling (Fe) **************************** (28.6)
average use
introverted Feeling (Fi) *************************** (27.4)
average use


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## possiBri (Jan 4, 2011)

I would just say practice being AWARE of things. If you catch yourself getting lost in your thoughts gently bring yourself back to the present. Maybe you could say the names of things you see (either out loud or in your head) just so that you're keeping yourself aware of your surroundings. If you've got a friend with some time and a car, try going to a new neighborhood – pay attention to the route – and then try to backtrack and navigate back to where you came from.

Also, play the game Memory... that will help a lot with working your short-term memory and stuff.

These are all just random suggestions... if anybody has reasons why these wouldn't be beneficial, let me know!.


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## devoid (Jan 3, 2011)

possiBri said:


> I would just say practice being AWARE of things. If you catch yourself getting lost in your thoughts gently bring yourself back to the present. Maybe you could say the names of things you see (either out loud or in your head) just so that you're keeping yourself aware of your surroundings. If you've got a friend with some time and a car, try going to a new neighborhood – pay attention to the route – and then try to backtrack and navigate back to where you came from.
> 
> Also, play the game Memory... that will help a lot with working your short-term memory and stuff.
> 
> These are all just random suggestions... if anybody has reasons why these wouldn't be beneficial, let me know!.


Thank you very much!  I will definitely try these things now. It didn't really register that I could actually end up improving memory along with sensing!


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## susurration (Oct 22, 2009)

It's not an ability... it's an attitude. Understand the attitude. Like how one would read about a religion or culture one is not familiar with, and truly understand why it works for some people. Get inside the attitude. Open yourself to it. Theory wise that might involve pushing down intuition a bit, I don't know. Perhaps just bringing it to conscious will do? (i'm just rambling).

Sometimes I read things about Se and I think... how beautiful... 



> 'The material at hand determines his thoughts and motions, which simultaneously change the nature of the material at hand. The material and his thoughts are changing together in a progression of changes.'"





> Extraverted Sensation (Se) is the attitude that whatever is manifest (apparent, observable) calls forth an obvious and natural response, that has nothing to do with the way you need to respond in any other moment. The meaning of everything is readily apparent--at the time that it appears. Whatever stands out and gets your attention here and now is precisely what needs your attention here and now. Your instincts at each moment will tell you what to do; there is no point in anticipating.


Reminds me of how a se dom or aux surfer might feel and act when they are in the waves. I sometimes hear surfers talking that they become like the waves; almost one with them. Imagine acting/perceiving with life like that? sounds amazing to me.


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## devoid (Jan 3, 2011)

susurration said:


> It's not an ability... it's an attitude. Understand the attitude. Like how one would read about a religion or culture one is not familiar with, and truly understand why it works for some people. Get inside the attitude. Open yourself to it. Theory wise that might involve pushing down intuition a bit, I don't know. Perhaps just bringing it to conscious will do? (i'm just rambling).
> 
> Sometimes I read things about Se and I think... how beautiful...
> 
> ...


That makes me think there are probably some meditations that would help.  Not quite sure what I'd look for though...


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## abski83 (Feb 28, 2009)

Here's what I do to train my Se.. I try to be more mindful of things and events all around me... as they happen. For example, when I have something in my hand.. I would really run my hands around it.. gripping it.. holding it loose.. while describing what it's like in my head..
Also, I noticed that manual work can be great in making me more adept at sensing. I would do some arts and crafts, draw things in perspective, reflect on art, and other things that would be hands-on and it has certainly given me much dexterity and more retention of detail. It seems that _appreciating what is here and now _is also key to this.


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## vel (May 17, 2010)

There was a long discussion about it here: http://personalitycafe.com/cognitive-functions/30073-how-can-i-develop-se.html

Personally I don't think that there is a way to develop a shadow function. Because if you think about it, these functions are made to be your weak point in favor of your strong points. You can't have strengths without weaknesses so something has gotta be your Achilles heel. To develop your weak point you will have to weaken your stronger points in favor of which the weak points were originally suppressed. This also means you'd have to mess with the whole cognitive order of your functions because there also exists a reason that they are ordered and paired in a specific way and there isn't a Ti-Ne-Se-Fe personality type i.e. you cannot use Se together with dominant Ti and auxiliary Ne.

Saying that I've noticed that functions can sometimes combine to give an impression of another function that is lacking. For example INTPs and INTJs are called look-alike personalities though they have no functions in common. To outside observers they may seem to act alike and have similar motivations. Fe+Ti combination can at times produces results as if it is Te or Fi in action. Ni can give similar effects to Si, and Ne - to Se. So imho it is really best to just explore your own personal strengths and weaknesses and avoid putting yourself in situations where you'd have to fall on your weak points.


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## Ray Mabry (Jun 6, 2010)

Se operates on the same level as your Si but almost in the reverse. Rather than look to the external world for input it shapes the external world via your own internal psychic processes.
I believe that you can't literally develop Se or any of the functions that oppose your first 4 more conscious functions but you can reach some understanding of the opposing functions and the elements that they notice by compensating for them with your other functions.

Based on some of the personality archetypes out there your 7th function is usually one that you will have the most trouble develop. It is almost a blind spot. Think about it...your consciously will still be drawn to your Si and even that is not as developed as your other functions. So your will always be drawn to nurture that function over your Se. On top of that Se and Ne can not operate at the same time and will consciously be drawn more so to Ne. So you have major road blocks in the way when it comes to developing this function.

The best thing to do is not to dwell on developing the function within yourself but to understand others who use it and recognize it's importance. You will likely butt heads or disagree with people that are of your shadow functions on some level. But the important thing is to understand where they are coming from. It is best to do this and work on developing the functions you already are conscious of.

As an example: I believe I have developed my Ti recently. Ti has an antagonistic relationship to external facts and often "thinks for itself" and uses external data only to back up it's theories and thoughts after the fact. Te on the other hand adjusts to and by external facts and may try to adjust the fact over time if it fails in certain areas. So there is a disconnect between the two. 
But i've learned to better support my Ti with external facts and in that way I have strengthened it. I still find difficulty drawing my ideas of the world directly from external facts and likely will always have this problem but in strengthening my own function I have come closer to understanding Te which is all that I could ever hope for because it has allowed me to back myself up more readily. I am closer to really seeing some sort of middle ground between Ti and Te as opposed to going in the opposite direction of Ti.

Hang around other Se types also. It will do wonders to soften the introverted nature of your Si. Make sure that you don't let them soften it too much but they will likely try to set your Si straight and in that way will help bring it forward to that "middle ground" I was taking about. I believe this middle ground exists between all opposing functions. Do not, however try to go to much over to Se or you will lose yourself in it provided that you can even allow yourself to go that far to begin with.


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## devoid (Jan 3, 2011)

abski83 said:


> Here's what I do to train my Se.. I try to be more mindful of things and events all around me... as they happen. For example, when I have something in my hand.. I would really run my hands around it.. gripping it.. holding it loose.. while describing what it's like in my head..
> Also, I noticed that manual work can be great in making me more adept at sensing. I would do some arts and crafts, draw things in perspective, reflect on art, and other things that would be hands-on and it has certainly given me much dexterity and more retention of detail. It seems that _appreciating what is here and now _is also key to this.


Thank you.  It helps to try to understand the ideas behind this function.



vel said:


> There was a long discussion about it here: http://personalitycafe.com/cognitive-functions/30073-how-can-i-develop-se.html
> 
> Personally I don't think that there is a way to develop a shadow function. Because if you think about it, these functions are made to be your weak point in favor of your strong points. You can't have strengths without weaknesses so something has gotta be your Achilles heel. To develop your weak point you will have to weaken your stronger points in favor of which the weak points were originally suppressed. This also means you'd have to mess with the whole cognitive order of your functions because there also exists a reason that they are ordered and paired in a specific way and there isn't a Ti-Ne-Se-Fe personality type i.e. you cannot use Se together with dominant Ti and auxiliary Ne.
> 
> Saying that I've noticed that functions can sometimes combine to give an impression of another function that is lacking. For example INTPs and INTJs are called look-alike personalities though they have no functions in common. To outside observers they may seem to act alike and have similar motivations. Fe+Ti combination can at times produces results as if it is Te or Fi in action. Ni can give similar effects to Si, and Ne - to Se. So imho it is really best to just explore your own personal strengths and weaknesses and avoid putting yourself in situations where you'd have to fall on your weak points.


I understand that shadow functions are normally very weak; however, I already have a very strong Fi, which tells me that there is a way. As I've already said, I don't expect my shadow functions to become dominant or any stronger than the other four. I'm merely trying to gain perspective on something so that I can function better in the world.




Ray Mabry said:


> Se operates on the same level as your Si but almost in the reverse. Rather than look to the external world for input it shapes the external world via your own internal psychic processes.
> I believe that you can't literally develop Se or any of the functions that oppose your first 4 more conscious functions but you can reach some understanding of the opposing functions and the elements that they notice by compensating for them with your other functions.
> 
> Based on some of the personality archetypes out there your 7th function is usually one that you will have the most trouble develop. It is almost a blind spot. Think about it...your consciously will still be drawn to your Si and even that is not as developed as your other functions. So your will always be drawn to nurture that function over your Se. On top of that Se and Ne can not operate at the same time and will consciously be drawn more so to Ne. So you have major road blocks in the way when it comes to developing this function.
> ...


I actually recently moved into a family of basically all Se types. xP It is really humiliating the way they look at my lack of sensing. But I know that I shouldn't try to be someone else. I'll make sure not to go overboard in this.


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## firedell (Aug 5, 2009)

Do what SP's do best. Create. Listen. Watch. Touch.

I developed Se as a young child. My mum would buy me things to create, so I believe this helped develop it, by touching the things I had created, be that paint, material of any kind, or the bricks that I stacked. I used to play in the garden, watch the clouds, play with bugs, smell/touch plants, climb, and dig up the soil. 

Now I am not saying to start rubbing your face in mud. Just become more aware of the world around you, by the four things I have mentioned above.


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## possiBri (Jan 4, 2011)

firedell said:


> Do what SP's do best. Create. Listen. Watch. Touch.
> 
> I developed Se as a young child. My mum would buy me things to create, so I believe this helped develop it, by touching the things I had created, be that paint, material of any kind, or the bricks that I stacked. I used to play in the garden, watch the clouds, play with bugs, smell/touch plants, climb, and dig up the soil.
> 
> Now I am not saying to start rubbing your face in mud. Just become more aware of the world around you, by the four things I have mentioned above.


My mother was a preschool teacher the years leading up to my birth and for about 4 years after, so I was constantly exposed to various arts/crafts/hands-on toys. She also knew how to just sorta let me be a kid, I would explore the backyard, help my dad in the garden, all types of things. I wouldn't have ever made the connection, but that makes a lot of sense to me why I feel my Se is pretty well developed.


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## devoid (Jan 3, 2011)

possiBri said:


> My mother was a preschool teacher the years leading up to my birth and for about 4 years after, so I was constantly exposed to various arts/crafts/hands-on toys. She also knew how to just sorta let me be a kid, I would explore the backyard, help my dad in the garden, all types of things. I wouldn't have ever made the connection, but that makes a lot of sense to me why I feel my Se is pretty well developed.


I used to do things like that a lot as a kid, but my mother actually discouraged it. Maybe I just forgot how to use it. xP


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## Neon Knight (Aug 11, 2010)

I couldn't find the exact site I found a while back since I had to start over with a new computer I've lost my links, but here's a potential good one for mindfulness exercises:
Mindfulness
For any kind of mindfulness exercise you don't need to have Se, anyone can do them.


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## devoid (Jan 3, 2011)

SuPERNaUT said:


> I couldn't find the exact site I found a while back since I had to start over with a new computer I've lost my links, but here's a potential good one for mindfulness exercises:
> Mindfulness
> For any kind of mindfulness exercise you don't need to have Se, anyone can do them.


Thank you very much!


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## firedell (Aug 5, 2009)

One thing I used to enjoy doing when it rained was getting my umbrella, and sitting on a chair in the garden. I used to listen to it hitting various objects around me, with my eyes closed. Not thinking about anything else, just listening to the noise. It used to give me shivers. I loved it. I'm not sure if this is a good way to develop Se. Becoming more aware of what is around you, ect:


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## devoid (Jan 3, 2011)

firedell said:


> One thing I used to enjoy doing when it rained was getting my umbrella, and sitting on a chair in the garden. I used to listen to it hitting various objects around me, with my eyes closed. Not thinking about anything else, just listening to the noise. It used to give me shivers. I loved it. I'm not sure if this is a good way to develop Se. Becoming more aware of what is around you, ect:


That sounds beautiful!  I would love to learn from the SF types; you seem to have an amazing view of the world.


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## Neon Knight (Aug 11, 2010)

hziegel said:


> Thank you very much!


You're welcome :happy: Ask anything if you want.



firedell said:


> One thing I used to enjoy doing when it rained was getting my umbrella, and sitting on a chair in the garden. I used to listen to it hitting various objects around me, with my eyes closed. Not thinking about anything else, just listening to the noise. It used to give me shivers. I loved it. I'm not sure if this is a good way to develop Se. Becoming more aware of what is around you, ect:


That is kind of like something I have done that felt amazing. In my case it was just going out in the rain without raincoat or umbrella (summer only of course!) and either just lay on the picnic table and let it pour all over me of just let it rain down on me anywhere. There was this time also when it was raining so hard I managed to wash my hair in the downpour from the trough on the roof...that was pretty fun, plus I was surprised at managing to finish without problem and how fast it went compared to showering but then, I'm just a sensation seeker with very low impulse control a lot of the time lol. :crazy:


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## letsride (Dec 22, 2009)

firedell said:


> Do what SP's do best. Create. Listen. Watch. Touch.
> 
> I developed Se as a young child. My mum would buy me things to create, so I believe this helped develop it, by touching the things I had created, be that paint, material of any kind, or the bricks that I stacked. I used to play in the garden, watch the clouds, play with bugs, smell/touch plants, climb, and dig up the soil.
> 
> Now I am not saying to start rubbing your face in mud. Just become more aware of the world around you, by the four things I have mentioned above.


I love these suggestions, firedell! I was actually thinking about mentioning watching the clouds, but you've got it covered.:happy:

hziegel, just try and be aware of anything around you that you take in using your five sense. Try and experience the sensation as best you can, let your mind get totally absorbed by it. Meditation was also a good suggestion. I think watching clouds can be meditative, but so can many other things. Just use whatever is around you to practice.


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## devoid (Jan 3, 2011)

I realized that I probably have some amount of ADHD, which could be part of the problem. When I put my full concentration into thing I'm still capable of remembering them; it's more that I'm incredibly easily distracted. It may be that I sense and experience the things in a room, but get so easily distracted by one variable that I ignore all the others.


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## Neon Knight (Aug 11, 2010)

hziegel said:


> I realized that I probably have some amount of ADHD, which could be part of the problem. When I put my full concentration into thing I'm still capable of remembering them; it's more that I'm incredibly easily distracted. It may be that I sense and experience the things in a room, but get so easily distracted by one variable that I ignore all the others.


Do you notice the variable because it's "screaming" at you the loudest and can't help it? I'm like that. If everything is about the same level I can concentrate a lot easier on the things I actually want to because nothing is "screaming" at me to pay attention to it. Apparently meditation/mindfulness strengthens the ability to concentrate, but it is quite difficult if you've never done it before or have the attention span resembling that of a flea like me. With practise it gets easier. I find that using the method most pleasing to you like the person above said about taking everything and letting all the sensations be absorbed but for me it's more of a physical absorption, at least that's how it feels and get a really pleasant feeling when all the variables are desirable.


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## devoid (Jan 3, 2011)

SuPERNaUT said:


> Do you notice the variable because it's "screaming" at you the loudest and can't help it? I'm like that. If everything is about the same level I can concentrate a lot easier on the things I actually want to because nothing is "screaming" at me to pay attention to it. Apparently meditation/mindfulness strengthens the ability to concentrate, but it is quite difficult if you've never done it before or have the attention span resembling that of a flea like me. With practise it gets easier. I find that using the method most pleasing to you like the person above said about taking everything and letting all the sensations be absorbed but for me it's more of a physical absorption, at least that's how it feels and get a really pleasant feeling when all the variables are desirable.


Sort of. Sometimes I feel like an element is screaming at me, but most of the time I just get absorbed in a single sight, sound, idea, etc. and completely forget everything else going on around me.


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