# Comparing 3 + 8 Archetypes (358, 368 and 378)



## Karkino (May 25, 2017)

This post will compare the multiple differences between 358, 368 and 378 tritypes.

The 3 tritypes concerned with having THREE and EIGHT fixes (358, 368 and 378) display those behavioral and psychological patterns : 

• Deceit and Lust combine into a very powerful and competitive personality that wont be deterred easily in order to come out on top at all costs. People with this personality will try anything to keep a strong and attractive image;

• Double assertive stance ; the need to take charge and make things happen out in the real world in enhanced;

• Protective, competitive and forceful energy;

• Probably the most masculine energy of all combinations;

• The image-comforming, shapeshifting THREE is at odds with the independence-seeking, boundary-setting EIGHT;

• There's a realy dichotomy with the THREE need to adapt the self into a desirable persona and the EIGHT need to be masters of their own destiny;


*Differences Between Archetypes :*


*Competitiveness*

• 358s use their FIVE fix in order to gather as much useful information as possible in order to strike into an exploitable weakness. They are ususally considered fearsome opponents because of their sly and cunning strategies;

• 368s jump into the action the quickest and project a image of fearless and relentless assault in order to hide their own insecurities. They are very persistent and tough to convince otherwise once their mind is settled on something;

• 378s see competition as a game to be enjoyed to the fullest while coming out on top as the ultimate goal. While they take challenges seriously like the other THREE and EIGHT combinations, they usually can use charm and humor in order to meet their goals;


*Focus of Attention*

• 358s are masterminds and thus can hone in on very specific details that most people might overlook. They are hard-nosed people even with a preference for intuition in MBTI;

• 368s are focusing on potential dangers or abnormalities that might undermine their tough and fearless persona. They are also very preoccupied by power struggles and imbalances;

• 378s concentrate on expanding their sphere of influence on the real world. They only fight if they are being confronted or slowed down, but prefer to keep on a cool head;


*Protectiveness*

• 358s has that tough love attitude going on where they only protect people when they are truly unaware of a threat and innocent. They like to give out practical advices in order to encourage people being independent and to fend for themselves;

• 368s are very protective of vulnerable and exploited groups and/or individuals. Injustice is abhorred and must be taken down by any means possible. They will go to the bat for someone if they are being abused (a bit like 268s);

• 378s are less openly protective of their people while being more concerned with personal gains. They will not back down if people they love are in danger, but they will try to negociate and make light of the situation if said event isn't too threatening;


*Potential Problems*

• 358s can be so detached from their emotional and vulnerable side that they can come across as being uncaring and cold-hearted to most people. They can so attached to their image of untaintable successful person that they may never be able to crack open their own inner shell of vulnerability. Being so removed from their feelings all the time can make intimacy and relationship suffer from being deficient and uncared for. This archetype is also very stubborn and it's hard to be able to put their mentality into question, as they often seem to have an answer for everything;

• 368s are very reactive and impulsive and so can overreact and can perceive illusory conflicts and power struggle when they aren't. They also have a tendency to talk back or say too much too quickly before accurately assessing the situation, putting their credibility in jeopardy at times. They ought to slow down and think before opening their mouth and reacting to any potential things that they don't agree with (this trait is shared with all the SIX and EIGHT combinations). As the most aggressive and combative tritype of all the 27 archetypes, they may allow more time in their routine to relax and shift their focus of attention to body care and well being.

• 378s can be seem as insensitive and provocative to others because they tend to love a good conflict in order to stir some shit up. They are quick-witted but can eventually lose appeal because of their jerk attitude. Also, they can be so egocentric that they forgot to include other people in their goals and schemes. Like the 368s, they can be very adept at putting their foot in their mouth and say or do something offensive or inappropriate. Their ''deal with it'' attitude can seem old very fast and look distasteful. Finally, they need to look inside themselves more and listen to their inner motivations, as they spend way too much time outside their own mind and heart.


*Patterns & Structure*

• 358s are triple strategizing and hard-nosed. This means that this archetype has all the three enneatypes in each center of intelligence that try to come up with an effective solution in order to keep themselves from experiencing shame, being overwhelmed and vulnerable. Those people are the powerhouse of the archetypes and are always coming up with new ways to control and manoeuver their environment the way they can make them above others and successful. This archetype combined with a dominant self-preservation instinct is extremely practical and ressourceful. This is one of the most independent and self-sufficient combinations of all the enneagram. They keep their boundaries very protected and may be inpenetrable. The sexual subtype is more preoccupied with keeping a strong and secure bond with their loved ones. They have a lot of subtle but noticeable charisma that they can exploit too manipulate people. This is also the most emotionally-aware 358. the social dominant 358 is more cause-driven than the other two subtypes and concerned with how they present themselves to the public. They like to appear as withholding intellectual and political mastery overy their environment and may maintain a image of unweavering, powerful tycoon. Very good at reading up people and know how to climb up corporative ladders;

• 368s are triple confronting and aggressive. This means that this archetype has all the three enneatypes in each center of intelligence that want to engage and/or decry injustice and inequalities among various situations (depending on the subtype). They want facts and things to be crystal clear and hate contradictions and so can brush off any inconsistencies in order to eshew incongruence and open criticism. Combined with dominant self-preservation, this tritype is extremely hard-working and enduring. This is a less openly aggressive manifestation of this tritype, as here the motivation is to keep them from experimenting material woes and because of that they can be very rigid and combative of any inconsistencies or threats regarding that matter. Sexual variant with this archetype is very intense and confronting, especially if their loved ones are involved. They want total respect from them (a bit of submission also) and in exchange can be destroying any detractors. They have a very hard time to accept betrayals and are more emotional than the other two subtypes. They can be surprisingly submissive to their partners. The social subtype support and defend their crew in exchange for group security and trust. They can be found as the organization representative or leader (often political) and are very oppositional to any differing views;

• 378s are triple assertive and expansive. This means that this archetype has all the three enneatypes in each center of intelligence that want to conquer and expand their physical territory in order to create what they crave and envision. They are the empire builders, always on the lookout for new ways of spreading their way of thinking and act immediately upon creating new shemes. Paired with a self-perservation instinct, this tritype is more grounded and looking for the right deal to make a profitable experience. They are very epicurious and like to keep an image of laid-back, positive person. With the sexual subtype, the attention is less tangible and more focused on reaching lofty ideals. New experiences need to be felt and savored more intensely than self-preservation subtype. They like to be seen as an ideal, perfected ideal person to a few people close to them and their intent is to consume experiences, not just living them. Social variant is more involved with securing a political or organizational enviable place in the established hierarchy. They are the most confortable with the spotlight and like to maintain a grandiose, greater than nature persona when appearing publicly. Those are usualy quite colorful, but not as much as the sexual variant;


*Possible Mistypes*

• Social SIXES or EIGHTS with a 368 tritype make look more like 136 because of their work-ethic and dependable nature;

• Sexual 378 of any type may appear as 478 because of their flamboyant approach to life and access to emotional experiences;

• Self-preservation EIGHTS with a 368 archetype can look like 358s because of their more introverted nature and easier access to FIVE;

• Sexual FIVES with a 358 tritype may mistake their tritype with 458 because they are the countertype of FIVES are thus have more access to their emotional nature;


*MBTI*

• 358s' most common MBTI types are : ENTJ (853), ESTJ (835), INTJ (583) and sometimes ISTJ (538) or ISTP (583). It's very rare to see a feeling type with this archetype, even moreso if preferring extroverted feeling. Perceiving types are also quite uncommon for this tritype (ENTP might fit the role though). NTJ are very prolific with this tritype;

• 368s' most common MBTI types are : ESTJ (863), ENTJ (836), ESTP (836), ESFP (386) and maybe ENFP (683). It's rare to find an introverted Myers Briggs type with this archetype (maybe ISTJ or ISTP leading with SIX?). Sensing types are a little bit more prevalent than intuitive types.

• 378s' most common MBTI types are : ESTP (873), ENTJ (873), ESFP (378), ENTP (783) and maybe ENFJ (387) and ESTJ (837). It's incredibly rare to find introverted types with this tritype and all extroverted types might fit the bill.


*Miscellaneous Differences*

• 358s are strategists that look before they leap while 368s and 378s are less inclined to do so;

• 368 can be considered as a whistle blower archetype while 378s prefer to keep things light and enjoyable;

• 378 are quick-witted and can improvize on the spot while 358s need time to hatch a plan and put it into action;

• 368s and 378s can put their foot in their mouth by saying to much, while 358s can be in trouble for not saying anything;

• 358s are in danger of being too robotic and unemotional while 368s can be put on the spot for being too dramatic and reactive;

• 378s almosty always have an air of glitz and bigness around them, but 358s are more slient but deadly;

• This is a small one, but 368s have a slight advantage when telling that there is a problem with themselves because of the SIX fix. The 358s and 378s people tend to disregard their inner vulnerabilities;

• 358s may be overwhelmed when things don't go as planned, even though they are great at elaborating failure-proof strategies. 378S bluff more and do like they have the advantage even when cornered;

• 358s and 378s are a bit like master illusionnists and are adept at skewing the reality in their favor. 368S are more about trampling the issue head-on and calling a spade a spade.


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## HeeShen (Feb 6, 2021)

Hi Karkino.

Do you mind explaining the difference between core Social 3 with the Tritype 317 vs 358?


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## HeeShen (Feb 6, 2021)

317 is all about perfection, as 3 wants to be viewed as having worth, 1 wants to do the right thing, and 7 wants to experience life to the fullest.
358 is about strategy to win in life, as 3 wants to be viewed as successful by whatever means, 5 wants to understand things deeply, and 8 wants to have control over his life by imposing on others.

I think 317 can be playful because of the 7 fix, while 358 are never playful? 358 are also less open-minded to new ideas because of the 5 instead of the 7 fix?
317 also wants control over their lives, but not as openly controlling as 358 could be?

Why the attitudinal psyche theory states that 317 is VEFL, meaning that they do not bother much about the logical side of things? Being flexible with emotions and reflecting the emotions of others is possible, but I don't think they ignore the logical side of things. 
Why isn't 317 VLFE? Meaning they care about the logical side, can learn and discuss with others logically, while they don't care about the emotional side and can just ignore any positive or negative emotions of others. But they don't want to be emotional themselves.


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## mia-me (Feb 5, 2021)

Pet peeve about tritype archetypes. Way too much focus on E3, as if it's the core type where core type can often be one of the other two, resulting in different strategies, concerns and defenses.


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## HeeShen (Feb 6, 2021)

E3?


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## mia-me (Feb 5, 2021)

Enneagram 3.


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## HeeShen (Feb 6, 2021)

I have believed that I was a E7 for long time, but seeing my behaviour more clearly, I'm an E3.


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## mia-me (Feb 5, 2021)

Okay...but how is that relevant to what I posted?


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## Karkino (May 25, 2017)

HeeShen said:


> 317 is all about perfection, as 3 wants to be viewed as having worth, 1 wants to do the right thing, and 7 wants to experience life to the fullest.
> 358 is about strategy to win in life, as 3 wants to be viewed as successful by whatever means, 5 wants to understand things deeply, and 8 wants to have control over his life by imposing on others.
> 
> I think 317 can be playful because of the 7 fix, while 358 are never playful? 358 are also less open-minded to new ideas because of the 5 instead of the 7 fix?
> ...



I think you summed up the differences quite admirably. I would only add that Solution Masters can have a sense of humour, as any tritype would. Their humour might veer toward a more dry or sarcastic tone overall than the Systems Builder who might want to be more appropriate because of the ONE influence.


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## Allostasis (Feb 2, 2021)

Very relatable, with a few exceptions due to being 853 instead of 358.


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