# Female Beauty Peaks at 29



## LadyO.W.BernieBro (Sep 4, 2010)

DefLeppardTShirt said:


> The vagina doesn't disappear all of a sudden at 30, so I'm not buying this. Yeah, I'll $&/! just about anything, but the bigger question is how does any woman find a dude of any age attractive?


still working that one out and l will let you know lol, probably only humor and a certain charm combined with inexplicable biological urges.

l have noticed differing reactions from men l've been with from other women, l'm pretty sure the last guy l was with was objectively hot. But how can you tell :laughing:


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## HellCat (Jan 17, 2013)

I disagree with that, so does Diane Lane, Michelle Pfieffer, Salma Hayek, Sandra Bullock.. etc some of the most gorgeous women in Hollywood are over 40 right now. It is the youth injecting themselves with more and more poison, going orange skinned oompa loompa (everywhere) fake duck lips and flat ironing their bleached hair like a clone army of jenna jamesons that frighten me. I think its the woman's insecurity over aging that makes it more of a turn off perhaps. 

I'm 30 and I fucking love it. Plan on aging as healthfully, fit and gracefully as possible. Focusing on wisdom and being kind and compassionate instead of drinking virgin's blood and bathing in it. We have become a nation of insane Elizabeth Bathory wannabe's. Every article is about fighting wrinkles, some horrible advice/ book meant to undermine women's confidence or what trick to do this week. blah


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## LoveAshley (Mar 31, 2013)

LeoCat said:


> I disagree with that, so does Diane Lane, Michelle Pfieffer, Salma Hayek, Sandra Bullock.. etc some of the most gorgeous women in Hollywood are over 40 right now. It is the youth injecting themselves with more and more poison, going orange skinned oompa loompa (everywhere) fake duck lips and flat ironing their bleached hair like a clone army of jenna jamesons that frighten me. I think its the woman's insecurity over aging that makes it more of a turn off perhaps.
> 
> I'm 30 and I fucking love it. Plan on aging as healthfully, fit and gracefully as possible. Focusing on wisdom and being kind and compassionate instead of drinking virgin's blood and bathing in it. We have become a nation of insane Elizabeth Bathory wannabe's. Every article is about fighting wrinkles, some horrible advice/ book meant to undermine women's confidence or what trick to do this week. blah



You're right, but think of all the shame women receive when they do age gracefully.


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## HellCat (Jan 17, 2013)

I am not advocating you stop exercising and go full grey and only wear sweat pants.. but this obsession is so twisted and unhealthy and creates more stress.. 
which begets cortisol which makes you age and gain weight. A vicious cycle. I think a moderately healthy diet, yoga, weights, self acceptance are a good start. The youth is going to be in for an unpleasant discovery when their skin ages 20 yrs overnight from tanning so much. No wrinkle cream actually penetrates the keratin enough to stop decay either.. and I hate that they call it decay how demeaning. I did try that smelly horrible obscene gelatin/milk mask out on pinterest.. it made my skin so silky.. I am addicted but something needs to be done for that smell blech.


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## FallingSlowly (Jul 1, 2013)

Objectively and on average, that might all be true. We're not statistical averages however, and thinking of ourselves as such is actually what causes a lot of damage. And as for comparing ourselves to anyone in Hollywood, no matter if they age gracefully or not: They can devote time and money (even if it's just their wardrobe) to their appearance most of us normal mortals can't. I try to avoid looking at any of these women as role-models if I'm honest. That doesn't mean that I can't appreciate how great they look btw.

I am closer to 40 now, and of course you notice that your body and your face change. And every woman who says that it doesn't make her feel insecure at times either lies or is superwoman. However, these are fleeting moments. 
I take care of myself, I don't let myself go. I am in an extremely happy relationship (that alone makes you glow ). I have to admit that I'm also lucky enough to have good genes and that most people don't believe me when I tell them how old I am.

Beauty isn't just skin-deep, neither is attraction. It might be that I was physically at my most beautiful when I was 29/30. If you look at photos of me back then however, you see someone who rarely smiles and doesn't come across as very happy. The wrinkle-free face and tight body didn't really make up for that in my opinion, but I'm not a guy, so who am I to judge? 

I cannot really say that the male attention I receive has changed a lot since then. Maybe they were more after my looks when I was younger, but there must be something about me now that makes up for the laughter lines and stronger gravitational pull


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## android654 (Jan 19, 2010)

Lunexia said:


> k I'd probably gain all of my_ superficial confidence_ again.


I don't get why you would call it superficial. I don't know why, but people have gotten the idea in their head that having any concern with how you look or how you present yourself is superficial or shallow. Your body is part of who you are and caring about it isn't wrong or something to be shamed of. That doesn't mean someone is justified in obsessing over it that it's good to give it all of your attention, but there's nothing superficial in caring about your body.


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## LibertyPrime (Dec 17, 2010)

Lunexia said:


> I think I felt most "pretty" at 28 (before motherhood). I'm now 32 but 7 months pregnant with child #2. If I can establish a regular exercise routine post-partum, I think I'd probably gain all of my_ superficial confidence_ again. That being said, my husband is 8 years younger than I, yet appears older.


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## strangestdude (Dec 8, 2011)

I would give my opinion on what ages I think female beauty peaks, but I think it would add to the general obsession and social pressure women have about their looks. So I won't.


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## angeleyes (Feb 20, 2013)

Since 80 is the new 60, and 60 is the new 40, 29 would be the new, well, 9.
This could be problematic.


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## WolfStar (Aug 18, 2009)

I'm wondering if this has any meaning or is just idle thinking.


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## Yobi (Jun 17, 2013)

>.> But mens beauty spikes at age 50.. or at least that's my opinion.. You handsome things you.

I have never crushed on men my age.. and have only crushed on guys waay older than me. -.- Genetics.. why do you do this to me?


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## WolfStar (Aug 18, 2009)

Snypervii said:


> im totally ganna have to say a girl is prime time at 14!!!


...XD! I lold.


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## DeductiveReasoner (Feb 25, 2011)

Is this true? Have I really another ten years of glorious appearance and then another perhaps five of decreasing yet still total sexiness?


Yessssssssssssssssssss


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## LoveAshley (Mar 31, 2013)

I don't see how men's peak is higher. I think men look best in their late 20s to early 30s. Never been attracted to Clooney. Too old.


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## killerB (Jan 14, 2010)

These articles make me glad I am a Lesbian.

At least I have another woman who can laugh with me about the inevitable sagging boobs. And gray pubic hair.....:laughing:


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

it's sad to me how little most men care about their appearance.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

Though milf is the top searched term for porn, with teen behind it. >.>

Mkaaay.











http://gizmodo.com/5990253/the-most-searched-terms-in-porn-by-country-and-state


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## ApostateAbe (Aug 8, 2013)

Men Believe Female Beauty Peaks At Age 29? Maybe that is what they say they believe, but I actually think that the peak of female beauty is right around the age of 16, and it gradually decreases from that point onward. What men say and how men actually behave are two different things, and I find it a very difficult proposition that men would prefer a 29-year-old over an 18-year-old.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

ApostateAbe said:


> Men Believe Female Beauty Peaks At Age 29? Maybe that is what they say they believe, but I actually think that the peak of female beauty is right around the age of 16, and it gradually decreases from that point onward. What men say and how men actually behave are two different things, and I find it a very difficult proposition that men would prefer a 29-year-old over an 18-year-old.


"but I actually think that the peak of female beauty is right around the age of 16, and it gradually decreases from that point onward" -- and you're nearly 30. Most people who I personally know who are around your age see high school kids, as kids - not sex objects. You're assuming that most men have a creepy fetish for teen girls, and well, most don't.


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## platorepublic (Dec 27, 2012)

Beauty peaks when you feel beautiful.


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## ApostateAbe (Aug 8, 2013)

Promethea said:


> "but I actually think that the peak of female beauty is right around the age of 16, and it gradually decreases from that point onward" -- and you're nearly 30. Most people who I personally know who are around your age see high school kids, as kids - not sex objects. You're assuming that most men have a creepy fetish for teen girls, and well, most don't.


Congratulations on your post #12,000 (wow!). There are (1) things that men tell women, there are (2) things that men reveal among themselves, and there are (3) things that men actually think. I can confirm the facts of #2 and #3 with respect to the sexuality of mid-teen girls, it is generally accepted among psychologists ("ephebophilia" is regarded as normal), and it makes good theoretical evolutionary sense. It is very unsettling, no doubt about it!


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## android654 (Jan 19, 2010)

ApostateAbe said:


> Congratulations on your post #12,000 (wow!). There are (1) things that men tell women, there are (2) things that men reveal among themselves, and there are (3) things that men actually think. I can confirm the facts of #2 and #3 with respect to the sexuality of mid-teen girls, it is generally accepted among psychologists ("ephebophilia" is regarded as normal), and it makes good theoretical evolutionary sense. It is very unsettling, no doubt about it!



You should really just speak for yourself, not everyone has the same attraction patterns as you.

P.S.
Pedophilia, ephebophilia, any clinical term you want to use doesn't change the fact that they're still kids.


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## Purrfessor (Jul 30, 2013)

Promethea said:


> Though milf is the top searched term for porn, with teen behind it. >.>
> 
> Mkaaay.
> 
> ...


Jesus Alaska! Have you been taking steroids?


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

ApostateAbe said:


> Congratulations on your post #12,000 (wow!). There are (1) things that men tell women, there are (2) things that men reveal among themselves, and there are (3) things that men actually think. I can confirm the facts of #2 and #3 with respect to the sexuality of mid-teen girls, it is generally accepted among psychologists ("ephebophilia" is regarded as normal), and it makes good theoretical evolutionary sense. It is very unsettling, no doubt about it!


What men share with each other is often through a filter of not wanting to be called "sissy/gay." 99 percent of my friends all my life have been male and they have been more open with me than each other about a lot. Most of the male friends I have had over the age of 20ish have not sexualized high school kids; some of them have even expressed what I think is a normal reaction if it ever comes up: "thats sick." I guarantee if I casually asked a handful of them, they would have that reaction right now. 

This thing you posted from the "US conference of catholic bishops" -- you can find psychologists who will say _anything_. 

My life outside of _the internet and 4chan_ has taught me that in general, men aren't predators lusting after undeveloped 16 year old girls. Its generally seen as, like I said, creepy. I have profiled the type who generally does go for teen girls though. I would not call this sort of man "normal" or well adjusted - but thats a whole long tangent.


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## ApostateAbe (Aug 8, 2013)

I think most people make judgments of reality based on the way it should be, and it is hard for me to blame that way to blame that way of thinking, because it is natural. I make judgments of reality based on the most probable explanations of the evidence. And it is terrible! I dont suggest it.


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## ApostateAbe (Aug 8, 2013)

I did a little more research on the topic. I found a scientific article titled, "Hebephilia Is Not a Mental Disorder in DSM-IV-TR and Should Not Become One in DSM-5." Hebephilia is another word for ephebophilia, or sexual attraction to pubescent adolescents. Here is a key paragraph:

The problems go far beyond the primitive research base. Suppose all the practical research were completed and the data were to prove that hebephilia exists as a discrete diagnostic entity and that it could indeed be reliably diagnosed. It still would not qualify as a Paraphilia. The essence of a paraphilia is that the sexual interest is deviant. Several studies have demonstrated the completely obvious, that attraction to pubescent individuals is common and within the range of normality. In a penile plethysmography (PPG) study, Barbaree and Marshall found that a third of their small sample of 22 nonoffending men showed sexual arousal to adolescents as well as adults. In a PPG study of 48 heterosexual men in compulsory military service, Freund and Costell found that the subjects’ reactions to nude images of both adolescent (ages 12–16) and adult (ages 17–36) females were similarly high; those to images of female children (ages 4–10) were intermediate; and those to male children, adolescent or adult, were negative. In another study, Quinsey and colleagues compared 20 child molesters against 21 controls (a mixture of non-sex offenders and males from the community), in penile circumference, skin conductance, and rankings of sexual attractiveness in response to photographs of persons of various sexes and ages. Similar to the 1970 Freund study, the normal group's arousal to pubescent females was elevated compared with a neutral stimulus, as well as to female children, and did not differ from the child molester group.​
The references are:
36. Barbaree HE, Marshall WL: Erectile responses among heterosexual child molesters, father-daughter incest offenders, and matched non-offenders: five distinct age preference profiles. Can J Behav Sci 12:70–82, 1989

37. Freund K, Costell R: The structure of erotic preference in the nondeviant male. Behav Res Ther 8:15–20, 1970

38. Quinsey VL, Steinman GM, Bergersen SG, et al: Penile circumference, skin conductance, and ranking responses of child molesters and “normals” to sexual and nonsexual visual stimuli. Behav Ther 6:213–9, 1975​
Penile plethysmography or a phallometric test is a test that detects whether a man gets a boner. It is a way to see what is really going through a man's brain, regardless of what he claims turns him on.

If you don't want to believe this, then I suggest you don't! I come off as creepy when I make these points, and I wouldn't wish that on anyone.


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## ApostateAbe (Aug 8, 2013)

The author said that the conclusion is "completely obvious." It is excessively insulting, because the contrary belief is so common that the conclusion in question wouldn't be obvious except if one is male. Or maybe just if one is an NT male.


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## strangestdude (Dec 8, 2011)

Shit got real.


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## DeductiveReasoner (Feb 25, 2011)

ApostateAbe said:


> Men Believe Female Beauty Peaks At Age 29? Maybe that is what they say they believe, but I actually think that the peak of female beauty is right around the age of 16, and it gradually decreases from that point onward. What men say and how men actually behave are two different things, and I find it a very difficult proposition that men would prefer a 29-year-old over an 18-year-old.


16? Are you insane? I was still in my awkward years at 16. So are a lot of other girls.


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## ApostateAbe (Aug 8, 2013)

DeductiveReasoner said:


> 16? Are you insane? I was still in my awkward years at 16. Humph


I think I would be better off in my life if I was a little LESS sane. I would love it if 29 years really was the peak of female beauty. Hell, 40 years old would be even better. I am sorry about my nature. :crying:


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## DeductiveReasoner (Feb 25, 2011)

ApostateAbe said:


> I think I would be better off in my life if I was a little LESS sane. I would love it if 29 years really was the peak of female beauty. Hell, 40 years old would be even better. I am sorry about my nature. :crying:


GET ON YOUR KNEES AND BEG FOR FORGIVENESS :angry:



hell hath no fury...


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## ApostateAbe (Aug 8, 2013)

Can I get on my knees for another reason? roud:


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## TheProcrastinatingMaster (Jun 4, 2012)

Any attempt to accurately measure the most attractive age in either gender is surely doomed to failure, I would think that there are far too many factors in play, then of course there is personal preference.

I would think the most accurate description for the general population would be roughly 15/16 to 65.

Don't take my word for it though, the only thing I'm a professional in is penis analogies.


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## Snow (Oct 19, 2010)

The only negative sexual associate I tend to have is: tall skinny dark haired women. That's because every time I see one, I think of my twin sister.

These articles are probably right, unfortunately. Though my dating history (dated equal age at 18-26, 3 years younger at 26, and 8 years older at 27+, all of whom were overweight _according to society_) and my conscious philosophies and beliefs about dating and appearances clearly say otherwise, I probably fall within the typical "find 30'ish most attractive." This is really subconscious though, as consciously I consider 30-50's the biggest turn-on. Probably due to mental maturity though, I don't know.

I think Hollywood is full of asshats who say things like "stay under 150lbs please" and "I just want a girl who exercises and doesn't weigh more than me. Is that too much to ask?" (Pure coincidence regarding @Slider 's comments, no doubt he's a fantastic guy any self-respecting woman would want to date.)


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## ApostateAbe (Aug 8, 2013)

TheProcrastinatingMaster said:


> Any attempt to accurately measure the most attractive age in either gender is surely doomed to failure, I would think that there are far too many factors in play, then of course there is personal preference.
> 
> I would think the most accurate description for the general population would be roughly 15/16 to 65.
> 
> Don't take my word for it though, the only thing I'm a professional in is penis analogies.


You are an INTP, so it is heresy to say that any type of scientific inquiry is doomed to failure! I think such an inquiry can be answered. What came to mind first is that men among themselves often rate the looks of women on a scale from one to ten. A study can be done by showing images to men of females in all the different age groups, and they would anonymously rate the looks of each female. Concurrently, the study can examine the penile plethysmography (boner) of each subject male, which I would take to be the most important data set.


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## TheProcrastinatingMaster (Jun 4, 2012)

ApostateAbe said:


> You are an INTP, so it is heresy to say that any type of scientific inquiry is doomed to failure! I think such an inquiry can be answered. What came to mind first is that men among themselves often rate the looks of women on a scale from one to ten. A study can be done by showing images to men of females in all the different age groups, and they would anonymously rate the looks of each female. Concurrently, the study can examine the penile plethysmography (boner) of each subject male, which I would take to be the most important data set.


I guess, but the best you're ever going to get is the roughest of averages. The numbers that make up the average will probably be so broad that applying that average to any one person would be pointless. Ultimately I see very little point in even bothering, I wouldn't say I'm all that interested in the sexual preferences of other people, regardless of how creepy or normal society might define their preference.


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## ApostateAbe (Aug 8, 2013)

TheProcrastinatingMaster said:


> I guess, but the best you're ever going to get is the roughest of averages. The numbers that make up the average will probably be so broad that applying that average to any one person would be pointless. Ultimately I see very little point in even bothering, I wouldn't say I'm all that interested in the sexual preferences of other people, regardless of how creepy or normal society might define their preference.


It would be a mistake to apply any statistical trend to a single given individual, and psychology is all about statistical trends (normal distributions/bell curves with a mean and standard deviation), almost never about facts that apply to every single human brain in the world. Such statistical data I think is useful for determining what behavior is common and what behavior is uncommon, which is essential to law or to anyone interested in making sense of the world, in my opinion.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

ApostateAbe said:


> I think I would be better off in my life if I was a little LESS sane. I would love it if 29 years really was the peak of female beauty. Hell, 40 years old would be even better. *I am sorry about my nature.* :crying:


I'm sure the overwhelming amount of women age 17+ who are lining up to date you are going to be devastated to hear about "your nature." Its too bad for them that nature has made you a superior specimen to all women who are over the age of 16, eh? 

Somehow I think 4chan has really warped some guys perceptions and given them a *hilarious* sense of entitlement.


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## android654 (Jan 19, 2010)

Promethea said:


> I'm sure the overwhelming amount of women age 17+ who are lining up to date you are going to be devastated to hear about "your nature." Its too bad for them that nature has made you a superior specimen to all women who are over the age of 16, eh?
> 
> Somehow I think 4chan has really warped some guys perceptions and given them a *hilarious* sense of entitlement.


It goes way beyond the internet.


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## TheProcrastinatingMaster (Jun 4, 2012)

Promethea said:


> I'm sure the overwhelming amount of women age 17+ who are lining up to date you are going to be devastated to hear about "your nature." Its too bad for them that nature has made you a superior specimen to all women who are over the age of 16, eh?
> 
> Somehow I think 4chan has really warped some guys perceptions and given them a *hilarious* sense of entitlement.


I don't think he said anything about being entitled to anyone...


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## marked174 (Feb 24, 2010)

Promethea said:


> there comes an age where someone is in fact a physically, emotionally, mentally mature -adult-, and 25 fits within that range. i don't even see a problem with 25 yr olds dating old people. a 25 yr old has enough of a physically developed body and a personalty to be considered an actual adult.
> 
> knowing people, interacting with people, being close to an 18 year old in a brotherly way, you see them as what they are - kids. they aren't just abstract sexualized images in creepy teen porn anymore so theres a more reasonable association than the sexually predatory one.


As I said, it's an ethical issue. I'm sure some teenagers can learn to be seductive and can convince men to see them in a sexual manner, and that not of a child. I'm sure it can be done; but it still doesn't change the facts, so the ethical man won't respond to it (but as some posters assert, a part of them might secretly want to). 

Both sets of my grandparents married when the woman was 17-19, with the man being 7 years older. After 70 years of marraige, I think they did better than most of the contemporary relationships I see now.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

TheProcrastinatingMaster said:


> Well natural for some maybe, I think people having different preferences plays a greater role than some people are willing to admit.


Despite the fact my posts seem a little heavy on the "29 year old man whos into 16 year old girls creep-out factor," what you said here is pretty much what I think about the general topic; I do think attraction is a more individualized thing. I wouldn't feel comfortable applying any rule to attraction universally.


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## ApostateAbe (Aug 8, 2013)

Promethea said:


> "Some psychologists say that its not a mental disorder to find teenagers pretty." That is a far cry from your claim that *every man ever finds them sexually appealing*. Are you not even aware of the fact that different people are attracted to different things? Even a guy in here said something about that, but you are still harping on this because in your head you can't be wrong. When I encounter people like you who try to say that everyone else is the same as you, despite how ludicrous the claim, I think that on some level you must feel guilty. So thats why, though you have even seen people disagree, you want to believe that no matter what, you can merely say they're lying (so that you don't have to feel inappropriate for lusting after high school girls).
> 
> Try to use better reasoning btw - Ad hoc hypothesis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


I am glad you brought this up, because I need to correct a persistent and common misunderstanding: I did not claim nor do I believe that EVERY man finds 16 year olds sexually attractive. It is merely a statistical trend, as in males very much tend to find 16 year old females close to the peak of sexual attractiveness, whether they admit it or not. Most notably, pedophiles generally do NOT find 16 year olds sexually attractive, despite the belief of your male friend (16 year olds are too old for pedophiles). Are we on the same page now?


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

marked174 said:


> As I said, it's an ethical issue. I'm sure some teenagers can learn to be seductive and can convince men to see them in a sexual manner, and that not of a child. I'm sure it can be done; but it still doesn't change the facts, so the ethical man won't respond to it (but as some posters assert, a part of them might secretly want to).
> 
> Both sets of my grandparents married when the woman was 17-19, with the man being 7 years older. After 70 years of marraige, I think they did better than most of the contemporary relationships I see now.


Sure, I will agree that some men who have an _ethics-only_ qualm about it might be taken in by a seductive act; but this assumption also dismisses the fact that there are some men who have more than an ethics based qualm about it. 

I think that actual attraction is mostly about associations made however, not ethical choices. Its completely reasonable to think that a person's attractions in general are to something different than what everyone else's are. I know this from personal experience.. someone could show me photos of "the hottest men in the world" from whatever stupid magazine all day, and I won't feel a thing. Its not an ethical choice, as far as I can tell I just built some association in my head of that type looking generic and boring, from my experiences. Its complicated and psychological.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

TheProcrastinatingMaster said:


> That whole procreation thing probably :tongue:
> 
> 
> 
> We're still heavily governed by basic urges, otherwise I generally agree with what you're saying. We can choose to move away from them, but not acting upon them hardly means that the desire would disappear.


Yeah--but I don't believe that basic urges are so basic with our brains. I think that there is a lot more to instinct than what it is commonly reduced to. Jung talked a little bit about the yucca moth and it's instincts--and how the desire to pollinate the yucca plant wouldn't be as simple as we often view instincts--but that it would be more complex and encompassing. (I think, I'm just saying from memory.)

Actually, I think that a lot of the physical things we desire are really symbols. Although I do think that some people may never get past the most physical layer of meaning. And a lot of the non-physical things we desire may be part of our instincts as well.

I still think people underestimate the brain when considering physical urges. It's so easy to say "I have XYZ urge because my body wants to pro-create." But your brain is part of your body too.

Edit: And I don't think my argument is very good right now--I'll get back to you when it's better.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

ApostateAbe said:


> I am glad you brought this up, because I need to correct a persistent and common misunderstanding: I did not claim nor do I believe that EVERY man finds 16 year olds sexually attractive. It is merely a statistical trend, as in males very much tend to find 16 year old females close to the peak of sexual attractiveness, whether they admit it or not. Most notably, pedophiles generally do NOT find 16 year olds sexually attractive, despite the belief of your male friend (16 year olds are too old for pedophiles). Are we on the same page now?


Earlier you mentioned that if a man says hes not into girls that age, hes lying to me because I'm a female. Then you said the same thing again in response to what a man told me. I think that you're backpedaling instead of clearing anything up here, but whatever - neither of us are going to change our minds so whats the point.


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## ApostateAbe (Aug 8, 2013)

Promethea said:


> Earlier you mentioned that if a man says hes not into girls that age, hes lying to me because I'm a female. Then you said the same thing again in response to what a man told me. I think that you're backpedaling instead of clearing anything up here, but whatever - neither of us are going to change our minds so whats the point.


There is no harm in clearing up misunderstandings. Statements I make about your friends or any given individual should be taken as statements of probability, not as statements of certainty.


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## android654 (Jan 19, 2010)

marked174 said:


> Both sets of my grandparents married when the woman was 17-19, with the man being 7 years older. After 70 years of marraige, I think they did better than most of the contemporary relationships I see now.


A twenty-four-year-old marrying a seventeen-year-old does sound creepy. There are also social and psychological factors to consider when claiming a healthy marriage judged by its longevity.


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## marked174 (Feb 24, 2010)

Promethea said:


> Sure, I will agree that some men who have an _ethics-only_ qualm about it might be taken in by a seductive act; but this assumption also dismisses the fact that there are some men who have more than an ethics based qualm about it.
> 
> I think that actual attraction is mostly about associations made however, not ethical choices. Its completely reasonable to think that a person's attractions in general are to something different than what everyone else's are. I know this from personal experience.. someone could show me photos of "the hottest men in the world" from whatever stupid magazine all day, and I won't feel a thing. Its not an ethical choice, as far as I can tell I just built some association in my head of that type looking generic and boring, from my experiences. Its complicated and psychological.


Right, I just find it a little silly that if you showed a similar magazine to guys, they might say "Wow, they're hot." Then you tell them that they are teenagers, and immediately those guys start acting like they need to vomit. I'm not buying it.


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## marked174 (Feb 24, 2010)

android654 said:


> A twenty-four-year-old marrying a seventeen-year-old does sound creepy. There are also social and psychological factors to consider when claiming a healthy marriage judged by its longevity.


I have. Their marriages kick ass. And my grandfathers were anything but creepy. Tens times the stock you find today.


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## android654 (Jan 19, 2010)

marked174 said:


> Right, I just find it a little silly that if you showed a similar magazine to guys, they might say "Wow, they're hot." Then you tell them that they are teenagers, and immediately those guys start acting like they need to vomit. I'm not buying it.


Well, buy it from me. I'm a guy and magazine covers have the same effect on me as Promethea claimed.


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## TheProcrastinatingMaster (Jun 4, 2012)

marked174 said:


> Right, I just find it a little silly that if you showed a similar magazine to guys, they might say "Wow, they're hot." Then you tell them that they are teenagers, and immediately those guys start acting like they need to vomit. I'm not buying it.


Really? I don't think I've ever noticed that, maybe my friends and me are all just weirdos though, more likely we're just not insecure enough to care...


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

marked174 said:


> Right, I just find it a little silly that if you showed a similar magazine to guys, they might say "Wow, they're hot." Then you tell them that they are teenagers, and immediately those guys start acting like they need to vomit. I'm not buying it.


There are indeed some men who are into bodies that aren't as developed. There is a chart that law enforcement officials use when dealing with cases of child porn, to judge where a girl/woman is at in her physical development. There are even women who are of legal age, and even well into their 20s who can look much less developed than the typical woman their age. There are men who are into that. If they saw a girl who was high-school age and dressed in a "sexy" way with makeup, etc, posing in a picture, some of them would find it attractive. If you then revealed the age, some may feel shame, others may not.

In my experiences with many males I have known however, the mention of perving on a high school girl does in fact get a squeamish response - because they haven't fetishized youth the way some other men have, and genuinely see it as wrong/creepy. And again, an association in these cases, not merely an ethical choice.

I'm agreeing with what you said on some level - that its so in some cases, but I have expanded it to account for other variables. I wouldn't feel comfortable not adding that bit.



marked174 said:


> Both sets of my grandparents married when the woman was 17-19, with the man being 7 years older. After 70 years of marraige, I think they did better than most of the contemporary relationships I see now.


I didn't address this before but I thought about it a bit. They grew up in a more innocent time, a time before internet pornography made the concept of "teen girl" into primarily a sexual fetish. It was tradition then for the man to be older, and be a provider, and for the woman to be innocent and taken care of. I'm not saying that I approve of that sort of societal structure completely. It had its pros and cons just like ours today. I'm just trying to make a distinction between some creepy dude these days in his 30s perving on a teenager, and then the more innocent case of marrying a younger bride for _many reasons other than_ associating her with a sexual fetish.

**edit - fuck, i just totally accidentally posted this response in another tab that i had open, but fortunately in a mostly pointless thread before realizing. x_x


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

(5:55:49 PM) *me*: do you think normal men see 16 year old girls as eyecandy
(5:56:06 PM) *a different guy i know whos 21*: not normal thats sick

see, heres one of those squeamish responses, and thats just the second guy i asked.


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## ApostateAbe (Aug 8, 2013)

Promethea said:


> (5:55:49 PM) *me*: do you think normal men see 16 year old girls as eyecandy
> (5:56:06 PM) *a different guy i know whos 21*: not normal thats sick
> 
> see, heres one of those squeamish responses, and thats just the second guy i asked.


Promethea, I suggest you continue to believe them.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

ApostateAbe said:


> Promethea, I suggest you continue to believe them.


I have a suspicion that in some sneaky snide way here, you're implying they're lying - as you suggested in a few posts before.

I suggest you open your mind up to the fact that not all men are like you. They simply are not.


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## Bat (Jul 21, 2012)

LoveAshley said:


> *
> Thoughts?*


:laughing:

Well, If Allure says it, it must be true!

Yeah, my thoughts are that I hope any young woman reading this article rolls her eyes and goes about her business. Yes, it's quite probable that an older woman, however attractive, is going to be less likely to inspire the dicks of random men than a younger hot one. No shit, Sherlock. It doesn't follow that the older woman is any less content or happy or even that she's getting laid less.



Promethea said:


> I suggest you open your mind up to the fact that not all men are like you.


People do like to extrapolate from the personal to the universal. It makes them feel more comfortable somehow.


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## ApostateAbe (Aug 8, 2013)

Promethea said:


> I have a suspicion that in some sneaky snide way here, you're implying they're lying - as you suggested in a few posts before.
> 
> I suggest you open your mind up to the fact that not all men are like you. They simply are not.


No argument. My mind is open to that.


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## Snow (Oct 19, 2010)

When I was 16, I remember thinking even some 14 year old were attractive. When I was 18, I recall thinking some 16 year old were attractive. When I was 20 or so (and married), I began to relate physical attraction in conjunction with maturity, and began to find older women than myself attractive.

I guess that's not saying much though, and I don't know many men in general that I also know "what age they think is attractive." I'm curious now, and will ask my 19/20 year old brother and a few others I know.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

Bat said:


> People do like to extrapolate from the personal to the universal. It makes them feel more comfortable somehow.


This, yes.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

ApostateAbe said:


> I would say that's a possibility, except I really do have solid evidence that I am as intelligent as my arrogance implies.* I am a member Mensa, a society of the top 2% of IQ*. I took the test and passed. Just barely passed, but passed. So take your Dunning–Kruger effect and shove it.


Internet people make a lot of claims, and that is one. 

And I can't help myself, its way too tempting to point it out again and again, particularly when you try to talk yourself up.



Stelliferous said:


> I thought everyone knew IQ tests don't really measure intelligence?


I doubt what hes saying is true, but if it is, the proof for your claim there is in the pudding innit.

Oh god I needed this laugh.


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## Yobi (Jun 17, 2013)

<.< Female beauty peoples.. the subject was female beauty.


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## Purrfessor (Jul 30, 2013)

I took Mensa's practice test and passed with flying colors. I'm sure I could pass the real test but that would cost money. I really don't want to be a part of Mensa anyway, I don't need that reassurance.


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## strangestdude (Dec 8, 2011)

Yobi said:


> I hate when the first thing men ask is "How old are you?" It's such a discriminatory question.. like that's gonna matter if you like me or not.


Maybe they want biological children, and know that the older a woman is the harder it is for them to conceive?

Maybe they want someone who's around the same age, who is part of the same generation and is at a similar 'stage' in life?

I think those are both good reasons to be concerned about a woman's age.

IME women are really insecure about their age (which is due to marketing and the general media IMO). Woman are much quicker IME to brag about dating a younger man, than a man is about dating a younger woman (admittedly because it's the norm for men to date younger women).


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## ApostateAbe (Aug 8, 2013)

Stelliferous said:


> I thought everyone knew IQ tests don't really measure intelligence?


Intelligence is a complex thing with many definitions, and IQ tests measure a limited aspect of intelligence, which is pattern recognition and logic. There are other important aspects of intelligence, such as social intelligence or emotional intelligence, which I would not claim to have. IQ has the advantage of being easily measurable, and it correlates with academic and economic success. I have a high IQ. That certainly does not mean I am right all the time or even most of the time, but it is a point of myself that I defend when challenged. I am proud of it, which perhaps I shouldn't be, because I was born with it and it is not an accomplishment, only an indication of the strong potential for accomplishment.


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## Purrfessor (Jul 30, 2013)

Yobi said:


> <.< Female beauty peoples.. the subject was female beauty.


Ok I'll post something about female beauty..

In all honesty I think there are multiple types of beauty, all equally good depending on mood. Sometimes an older lady is more beautiful than a younger one and vice versa. It's like art, there is no perfect art piece, but there are plenty of pieces of art to be enjoyed, all different.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

Yobi said:


> <.< Female beauty peoples.. the subject was female beauty.


Ok ok, you're right. Letsee here. I think I'm somewhere on the demisexual scale, not 100 percent, with a dash of pansexuality in there, and I think I'm straight, but I so admire certain female beauty. For me, there is no age limit. I tend to get crushes on peoples hair, and long silver hair does it for me. Sometimes an older lady with long silver or white hair who looks a little 'witchy' to me is sooooo lovely. Younger than me, older than me, beauty is a random thing that I can see anywhere.


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## WindowLicker (Aug 3, 2010)

I peaked at 15.


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## ApostateAbe (Aug 8, 2013)

Stelliferous said:


> I took Mensa's practice test and passed with flying colors. I'm sure I could pass the real test but that would cost money. I really don't want to be a part of Mensa anyway, I don't need that reassurance.


Yeah, I do need that reassurance :tongue:, but I also like it because it means being with people who are a lot like me. Mensans understand each other. I went to the Mensa Annual Gathering recently in Fort Worth, and I spontaneously recited the poem "Jabberwocky" together with someone else as we were playing with chess puzzles. It was one of the best weeks I have ever had in my life.


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## Yobi (Jun 17, 2013)

strangestdude said:


> Maybe they want biological children, and know that the older a woman is the harder it is for them to conceive?
> 
> Maybe they want someone who's around the same age, who is part of the same generation and is at a similar 'stage' in life?
> 
> ...


I am about 21.. I get critiqued for being a high-schooler because of acne maybe.. I doubt that was the case. -.- In my case it was probably.. something associated with youthful people.


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## ApostateAbe (Aug 8, 2013)

Promethea said:


> Internet people make a lot of claims, and that is one.
> 
> And I can't help myself, its way too tempting to point it out again and again, particularly when you try to talk yourself up.
> 
> ...


I can prove my membership right here on the web, if you are seriously in doubt and you seriously care.


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## Peter (Feb 27, 2010)

thismustbetheplace said:


> Actually, women want to be considered beautiful for both. Just like men want to be considered attractive for both their looks and personality. Who wants a relationship where the other person is in it just because they find you physically attractive? That gets empty really fast and leaves you feeling used. And what man wants his wife to be attracted to him only for his personality but for her to think he is ugly? Believe it or not men have insecurities about their appearance too and want to be considered attractive (although not as much as women because society makes it more acceptable for a man to be unattractive).
> 
> I just hate how the focus in the media is overwhelmingly on the looks of women, and their behavior as it pertains to men to a lesser extent. "Women should do this to look 10 years younger." "What men REALLY want from women," "What age do men consider women to be most attractive?" A few days ago I read an article called "10 types of women no man will marry," which the author wrote as a so-called counterpoint to a previous article she wrote entitled "10 types of men who will not marry you." How is that a counterpoint? Why is it always the man choosing the woman in her viewpoint instead of a mutual decision? Why is it always the man's opinion that matters and the woman is just trying to impress the man and hope he chooses her? And this was published in the Huffington Post!


Men want to be appreciated for what they do. (mostly talking about the marriage situation here but it applies outside the marriage too.) Sure looks are important but it's almost irrelevant compared to being appreciated for what they do. If a woman wants her man to do something for her and she doesn't show any appreciation after he did it, he will never do it again.

And as to the magazines,..... if you read women's magazines (or articles for women) this is what you get. They focus on what women love to read and talk about. Just go out and listen to what women talk about. (not every woman is like this, but most are and those magazines and articles are written for most women and not for the few that aren't so much like that.)

And here's another secret:

What men really prefer in women is self-confidence. Looks are important but self-confidence tops it. But nobody ever writes about that because women don't focus on them selves in this regard. And besides that, looks are an expression of self-confidence.


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## Yobi (Jun 17, 2013)

I like older men with estrogen characteristics.. I'm not attracted to testosterone at all really. As for age.. any age really.. people with estrogen characteristics don't really age in males.. They can't even grow proper beards. I have been.. Idk.. attracted to the happiness of male teachers in the front of classes even though they had testosterone characteristics.. or I'm not really sure to be honest with you.. loneliness makes you do weird things.. I'm not sure if I was attracted to them or not or just was lonely. I've practically flirted with people without realizing it only with estrogenated males.. Oh well.. there might have been one similar characteristic.. my teachers like female things.. such as:

My Japanese teacher has a beautician as a mother who dyes his hair and puts purple streaks in it.
He watches Korean Soap operas, carries a manpurse, sometimes has sparkly nail polish on X D and is knowledgeable about all female fads and THEIR SHOES. I seem to be attracted to men who are really into their feminine side.


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## strangestdude (Dec 8, 2011)

Yobi said:


> I am about 21.. I get critiqued for being a high-schooler because of acne maybe.. I doubt that was the case. -.- In my case it was probably.. something associated with youthful people.


Sorry, I don't understand how that is a response to what I wrote.


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## ApostateAbe (Aug 8, 2013)

Peter said:


> Men want to be appreciated for what they do. (mostly talking about the marriage situation here but it applies outside the marriage too.) Sure looks are important but it's almost irrelevant compared to being appreciated for what they do. If a woman wants her man to do something for her and she doesn't show any appreciation after he did it, he will never do it again.
> 
> And as to the magazines,..... if you read women's magazines (or articles for women) this is what you get. They focus on what women love to read and talk about. Just go out and listen to what women talk about. (not every woman is like this, but most are and those magazines and articles are written for most women and not for the few that aren't so much like that.)
> 
> ...


Peter, I am skeptical about the point of self-confidence. It is not true for me (I would rather go for a woman who is not confident, and looks are certainly most important), and a consistent message I get from women who are economically successful and have reason to be confident is that getting a good man is tough, not just because men avoid them but because such women can't easily go for a man who is poorer than the woman.


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## Yobi (Jun 17, 2013)

strangestdude said:


> Sorry, I don't understand how that is a response to what I wrote.


I was just trying to say that in my own case where someone was asking me my age that it probably had nothing to do with being an older woman since I look waay young how he could have had issues with my youthfulness to ask me that question.. erghh... I low-attention spanned that post I guess.


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## Peter (Feb 27, 2010)

ApostateAbe said:


> Peter, I am skeptical about the point of self-confidence. It is not true for me (I would rather go for a woman who is not confident, and looks are certainly most important), and a consistent message I get from women who are economically successful and have reason to be confident is that getting a good man is tough, not just because men avoid them but because such women can't easily go for a man who is poorer than the woman.


I was talking about self-confidence,.. not about independence. Someone can be totally economically dependent of another person and still have a very high self-confidence level.

You´re a man and you were looking at self-confidence the typical male way. But self-confidence can be caused by much more than just the idea of being successful financially.


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## ApostateAbe (Aug 8, 2013)

Peter said:


> I was talking about self-confidence,.. not about independence. Someone can be totally economically dependent of another person and still have a very high self-confidence level.
> 
> You´re a man and you were looking at self-confidence the typical male way. But self-confidence can be caused by much more than just the idea of being successful financially.


OK, that's a good point. I am skeptical that self-confidence in women is attractive to males, but maybe that is because I am an anomalous male, and I will change my mind when I see evidence for it.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

ApostateAbe said:


> OK, that's a good point. I am skeptical that self-confidence in women is attractive to males, but maybe that is because I am an anomalous male, and I will change my mind when I see evidence for it.


Are you saying that you prefer women who are not confident?

That doesn't surprise me, it completely fits the way I profiled a type of man who prefers girls who are much, much younger than him. 

And btw - you're doing it again, "I am skeptical that self-confidence in women is attractive to males" <- Generalizing men by assuming they think like you. I have been studying this for a long time and there are in fact different attraction styles. 

The reason I mentioned the autism spectrum is because of the very black and white thinking pattern you have displayed repeatedly. I wasn't just trying to be funny. And the reason I am so sorely tempted to call it out is because the claims that all men are like you is ludicrous and there are some very naive people looking on who don't understand that quite yet and I am more than happy to point that out to them. Actual reality is screwed up enough without someone trying to tell them that every man in the world is a predatory pervert *and that they all discourage women from being confident*. That part is particularly fucked up.



ApostateAbe said:


> I can prove my membership right here on the web, if you are seriously in doubt and you seriously care.


I was just curious to see how far you would go to try to prove yourself, because that is obviously a priority here. If someone can't prove their opinion with fact, its often a tactic to just puff up and front about themselves. 

Trust me, there is no need to try to prove yourself to me. I didn't find you very hard to figure out. ; )


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## Yobi (Jun 17, 2013)

@_ApostateAbe_ & @Promethea : You two want a room or something? (sorry bad joke)


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## ApostateAbe (Aug 8, 2013)

marked174 said:


> This comic might be relevant.


Great comic. It is discouraging to be on the side of the scientific establishment almost all the time but on the opposing side of so many issues within the field of sociology. A lot of people fear the influence of creationists on biology, but their fears are misdirected. In the case of sociology, it is as though the creationists have won.


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## chimeric (Oct 15, 2011)

Peter said:


> Look, obviously having old friends is no problem. I'm not saying one should get rid of old friends of the opposite sex just because of being in a relationship. But going out all alone with an old friend of the opposite sex when being in a relationship isn't something most people feel very comfortable with. Just like your fiance didn't. And I'm pretty sure you would be worried about what he would think if you would go out with an old friend, just the 2 of you.


I see you're Brazilian. This is the sort of thing that can vary across cultures (as well as from individual to individual, obviously).

I've always had a lot of male friends, and many of my male friends have a lot of female friends. If a significant other were insecure about that, they wouldn't be right for me, and on my end, I'm only jealous when I am being taken for granted, disrespected, etc.; friendships are fine and natural.


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## Cheveyo (Nov 19, 2010)

Any time you see an article titled "What <insert group of people here> REALLY think about <insert subject here>", you can safely disregard it and consider it bullshit.


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## LoveAshley (Mar 31, 2013)

Cheveyo said:


> Any time you see an article titled "What <insert group of people here> REALLY think about <insert subject here>", you can safely disregard it and consider it bullshit.


Maybe you should do a study on that and call it, "What articles like this REALLY mean."


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## Peter (Feb 27, 2010)

chimeric said:


> I see you're Brazilian. This is the sort of thing that can vary across cultures (as well as from individual to individual, obviously).
> 
> I've always had a lot of male friends, and many of my male friends have a lot of female friends. If a significant other were insecure about that, they wouldn't be right for me, and on my end, I'm only jealous when I am being taken for granted, disrespected, etc.; friendships are fine and natural.


I live in Brazil but I'm not Brazilian. I'm Dutch. :happy:

I'll try one more time: Having friends of the opposite sex shouldn't be a problem. But in general people consider it strange when you go out with a friend if it's just the 2 of you. I think that's not cultural. That's pretty much the same everywhere.


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## Peter (Feb 27, 2010)

thismustbetheplace said:


> Actually, I would be like "yay, he is finally making friends!" because my fiance is an extreme introvert and doesn't let a lot of people in through his shell. I would not be upset unless there was actual evidence that he was sexually interested in her. Having a drink and talking to someone is not in and of itself a suspicious act.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You´re different from the average :happy:

And if he is that introverted and then all the sudden takes the time to make friends with a new woman,..... I don't know, but if I were you, I'd consider that suspicious.


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## 626Stitch (Oct 22, 2010)

Physical beauty peaks much earlier than 29 in my subjective opinion like maybe early 20s. I might change my opinion when I get older.

You can allways tell the men who dont know what they want in a relationship because they simply go for the prettiest girl every time. I try and operate a hot or not system with low standerds so that I can make choices based on chemistry and compatibility rather than asthetics.


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## loving2011 (Nov 6, 2012)

Oh my, well..I just hit 30.  

I do get more compliments on my body, as it's more filled out. I do feel like my face has aged a bit, but most people say I look 24. I don't look as youthful as I was when I was 18, but I was super skinny at age 18!


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## Eerie (Feb 9, 2011)

*phew* I've got about one more year, lol.


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## g_w (Apr 16, 2013)

thismustbetheplace said:


> Actually, women want to be considered beautiful for both. Just like men want to be considered attractive for both their looks and personality. Who wants a relationship where the other person is in it just because they find you physically attractive? That gets empty really fast and leaves you feeling used. And what man wants his wife to be attracted to him only for his personality but for her to think he is ugly? Believe it or not men have insecurities about their appearance too and want to be considered attractive (although not as much as women because society makes it more acceptable for a man to be unattractive).
> 
> I just hate how the focus in the media is overwhelmingly on the looks of women, and their behavior as it pertains to men to a lesser extent. "Women should do this to look 10 years younger." "What men REALLY want from women," "What age do men consider women to be most attractive?" A few days ago I read an article called "10 types of women no man will marry," which the author wrote as a so-called counterpoint to a previous article she wrote entitled "10 types of men who will not marry you." How is that a counterpoint? Why is it always the man choosing the woman in her viewpoint instead of a mutual decision? Why is it always the man's opinion that matters and the woman is just trying to impress the man and hope he chooses her? And this was published in the Huffington Post!


As people say, "It's complicated."

First, the reason the man's opinion matters, is that in general, the man has to take the risk of approaching a woman and initiating contact and indicating interest: he takes the risk of getting shot down by being *explicitly* (and sometimes loudly and publicly) rejected. Therefore, from a cost/benefit standpoint, he wants to aim as high as he can on looks.

This is further complicated by the vast changes in societially defined gender roles in the Western world during the last 50-60 years:
woman getting the vote -- and the changes in law which greatly increased social safety nets, opened up 'no-fault' divorce, widespread acceptance of contraceptives, chemical abortifacents, and abortions themselves, widespread entry of women into the workplace (in many cases *supplanting* men, as they have in higher education), in addition to changes in commerce and physical mobility, as well as social networking, all of which make it FAR easier for women to have extensive sexual experience before marriage, not need (I'm talking life-and-death need, not luxury) a man for financial support, either in marriage or after divorce,
entertain a far wider variety of suitors, and aim as high as she can for sex, because there are no longer serious *external, obvious* consequences to a woman for sleeping with a very-high-status man but failing to secure commitment from him.

But the gender roles for attraction, dating, commitment (note that "courting" and "meeting the parents/asking a father for permission to marry the daughter" cannot even be mentioned without provoking snickers and/or anger) -- have not changed commensurately, or have changed unevenly. 

So that while it used to be, people met, dated, and mated "assortatively" : male 10's ended up with female 9's and 10's, 9's with 9's and 8's, and so on -- nowadays, women can aim much higher than they used to : so a female six can bed male 9's and 10's, and therefore feels justified, nay, *deserving* of a RIGHT to shoot down male 7s and 6s who vie for her attention.
With the result that men are even more skittish than they used to be, and figure, "If I'm probably going to get shot down anyway, I'll aim as high as I can" *OR* drop out of pursuit entirely ("Grass eaters" in Japan, "Men Go Their Own Way" in the US).

In the meantime, the net result is that the HOTTEST men and women get their pick: many of the others are doomed just to watch and pine away, since they don't make the cut on looks to make it worth the risk of rejection to pursue them.

And women can be just as cruel about looks as men...I haven't ever heard of a single woman getting up in arms about this greeting card, for instance, as "objectifying men":









The real answer is that, for LTRs, there needs to be a balance of screening for looks, and screening for character: but to address that properly would take a veritable WALL-O-TEXT (TM).

That, and the pendulum needs to swing back aways from the extreme it is at: young attractive women such as yourself see nothing wrong, as you are at the peak of your attractiveness. (Kudos to you, btw, for locking in a mature, confident man for marriage while your market value is at its peak; many women don't seek to do that until their looks are on the decline, and then have the nerve to look surprised that their marriage market value at age 30, having slept around, is not the same as their fling value at age 22 or age 24.) The problem isn't that it hurts *men*, but that it hurts SOCIETY, as so many people are left lonely and turn inwards instead of channeling their productive energies towards raising a family -- which then requires them to give a flying leap about the big picture state of society...


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## g_w (Apr 16, 2013)

thismustbetheplace said:


> Maybe we should stop measuring a woman's worth by her beauty and obsessing over how women look and how men feel about it. Why don't they do a survey on "how men and women feel about a man's changing looks"?
> 
> Anyway, if you marry the right person they will think you're beautiful even when you're old and wrinkly, because they will love you for who you are, not for what you look like.


I've been married 27 years: and I'm old enough to be not only your father, but your fiance's father.
There's a phenomenon called "Beer Goggles" where if you've had enough to drink, the physical imperfections in the other person disappear.
But there's another one which works on men who've been married a long time who married when their wife was young.
"Wife Goggles."
When you look at her, your brain registers what she looked like when you first married. :kitteh:
(Not to say character is *unimportant*: character and values dwarf looks as far as what a woman brings to the table in order to make a successful marriage.)


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## Naama (Dec 5, 2010)

I thought the beauty of women peaks at the age of 17 :/

(not saying that there is some quick drop or anything like that)


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## LoveAshley (Mar 31, 2013)

Naama said:


> I thought the beauty of women peaks at the age of 17 :/
> 
> (not saying that there is some quick drop or anything like that)


For some women, that is true, especially when they they married and have children young. I say marriage because both men and women relax on their personal upkeep with their appearance once they know they have someone for life, and child birth causes weight gain and a list of other physical changes.


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## android654 (Jan 19, 2010)

LoveAshley said:


> For some women, that is true, especially when they they married and have children young. I say marriage because both men and women relax on their personal upkeep with their appearance once they know they have someone for life, and child birth causes weight gain and a list of other physical changes.


That and married life is a bitch.


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## PumpkinEater (Jul 5, 2011)

Honestly i'm excited for my first gray hair! i think women 30-45 ish are incredibly sexy! most have grown out of that awful immaturity and arrogance that a lot of young people have. plus i just think they look nicer. more pulled together, less baby-like, more honest with their bodies instead of trying to starve or be a certain size.


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## Wellsy (Oct 24, 2011)

Just to remind people, older people be fucking
STDs in Older Adults


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## Golden Rose (Jun 5, 2014)

There's a biological peak in fertility but looks are much more fleeting.

Not all women age the same way or start developing around the same age so the statistics in this study cannot be accurate since they indicate personal preferences of a limited number of people who might imply different things.

No clear definitions, no margin for error.

I honestly don't care about peaking or what others think of my looks and age.
I joke about it frequently, mostly in a sarcastic way, but I'm not really concerned about it.
I don't want to deform my body or make it a burden but I've done a lot of harmful things to it already.

Cultivating intelligence, wits, talent, practicality, vision, humor, understanding and competency is much more important. Looks will eventually fade no matter what and they're not what defines a person as a valuable partner. Attraction is important but beauty standards are overrated.

I like the definition of 'wife goggles'.


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## sockratees (Apr 7, 2015)

female beauty peaks at 17-21, the end.


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## Kelleth (May 11, 2015)

And yet I am attracted to women who are mostly older then me


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## Metalize (Dec 18, 2014)

sockratees said:


> female beauty peaks at 17-21, the end.


False.

I'm looking much better than in my late adolescence, both in my estimation and others'. And it's not because I suddenly started doing anything different; my facial features are growing more defined.


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