# i'm still kinda confused whether i'm an INFP/J



## Elfarant (Jan 31, 2015)

So maybe i'll start with saying hello since i'm new here. So, hello! :kitteh:

Well, let's jump to the main problem hehe
So i had this problem where i'm confused about my type. I've been studying about each type and also its functions. And based on that, i consider myself as an INFJ but i'm still not sure.. 

Maybe i'll describe myself a little bit :laughing:

I frequently had that moment when i just know things without actually thinking about it. (like knowing when people hates me without any clue. I just know.) And once i know, i tend to take it personally that i often feel like i can't connect to anyone.. Especially when someone hate me. everytime i feel a person is hating me, i'll avoid them as much as possible because i don't want them to be controlled by anger when i'm around. I'm also really careless with my surroundings and really sloppy. I think that what makes me consider myself an INFJ. But i also had that moment when i suddenly become really selfish, judging everything with my own values (even though my values are based on other people as well) when i feel someone is doing something wrong. I don't really know if that's an Fi or Fe and i think that's the problem. I know that i have a well-developed Ni, but i never actually realized using it. Like it's just work that way. And i think i have a really poor Se based on my mother's story about me. She said i often get lost in thoughts since my elementary school life until now. I had hard-time in highschool because of that ahaha :laughing:

And based on that, i guess i'm an INFJ. But i still need assurance. Cause the first time i know MBTI and took the test several times (also the cognitive test), i was typed as INTJ, and INTP later on. That's about 3 months ago i guess (i know that the test aren't accurate so i started my own research on the functions lol.)

So i'm hoping that someone could help me :happy:

Thanks! And sorry for bad grammars and bad choice of words! :laughing:


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## Mr. CafeBot (Jun 13, 2009)

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## Melongazpacho (Feb 2, 2015)

Hello there. ^_^ It's nice to meet you!
I ran into a similar problem with my S and N functions. I went to Myersbrigg.org and they compare the two. This is what I found for J and P:

"J:
The following statements generally apply to me:
I like to have things decided.
I appear to be task oriented.
I like to make lists of things to do.
I like to get my work done before playing.
I plan work to avoid rushing just before a deadline.
Sometimes I focus so much on the goal that I miss new information

P:
The following statements generally apply to me:
I like to stay open to respond to whatever happens.
I appear to be loose and casual. I like to keep plans to a minimum.
I like to approach work as play or mix work and play.
I work in bursts of energy.
I am stimulated by an approaching deadline.
Sometimes I stay open to new information so long I miss making decisions when they are needed."

I hope this helps you figure out which one you are. ^_^


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## AlexanderHoff123 (Oct 28, 2014)

Melongazpacho said:


> Hello there. ^_^ It's nice to meet you!
> I ran into a similar problem with my S and N functions. I went to Myersbrigg.org and they compare the two. This is what I found for J and P:
> 
> "J:
> ...


Wow! I already knew I was an INFP but I pretty much said yes to all the P statements . Thanks for sharing.


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## Moxie Mallahan (Feb 1, 2015)

Hi there and welcome! Don't worry about your grammar and word choice; you expressed yourself excellently and understandably. Grammar is all very well and good, but you wrote clearly and honestly, and that, I think, is what's really more important.

In terms of you wondering if you were INFP or INFJ (which is totally normal! The J/P distinction is usually the most confusingly described, and I struggled with that, too--you are definitely not alone), you could also take a look at the cognitive functions. 

INFP is Fi Ne Si Te
INFJ is Ni Fe Ti Se

So they're actually quite different, from that standpoint. INFPs lead with Fi, which is making decisions based on internal morality, judging the world and making decisions based on how you feel about it, independent of the world. Everything is filtered through _How does this make me feel? Who am I in this situation? What do I want? What do I feel is right?_. Whereas the INFJ Fe is more objective with its morality and emotions, deriving emotions and judging based on external sources. _How does everyone feel about this? Is she okay? Is this something that feels right for my surroundings? What do they want?_

Ni and Ne are also rather different. INFJs are Ni-dominant, and therefore will pull conclusions out of seemingly nowhere, looking within for patterns and abstract concepts and theories. Also, I've seen it emphasized a lot that Ni chooses one path and sticks with it, follows it through to the end. Very internal. Deeper and deeper. Ne, on the other hand, fires off in all directions, going here and there and everywhere. It might drop a path and switch to another. It's a lot more scatterbrained and bouncy, interacting with the environment to generate more ideas and theories and feel them out, although definitely not as thoroughly as Ni. Ni goes for depth, whereas Ne goes for breadth!

I'm a little rusty on this stuff, though, so I suggest you check out the INFP and INFJ forums. There are some really good articles and links there that do a better job of breaking down the cognitive functions than my rambling does! Hope that wasn't too much? Yeeeaaah. But welcome again! Don't worry too much about what type you are; there's no rush. Explore! They're all lovely and varied and fascinating. Just have fun, get to know some of the heaps of awesome people here, and maybe learn a thing or two about yourself in the process


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## Elfarant (Jan 31, 2015)

Melongazpacho said:


> Hello there. ^_^ It's nice to meet you!
> I ran into a similar problem with my S and N functions. I went to Myersbrigg.org and they compare the two. This is what I found for J and P:
> 
> "J:
> ...


Well, i guess the P suits me more than J. I like to keep my options open, though i usually decide things first and then change it later if there are any better options.

Thanks this really helps me!


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## Elfarant (Jan 31, 2015)

Moxie Mallahan said:


> Hi there and welcome! Don't worry about your grammar and word choice; you expressed yourself excellently and understandably. Grammar is all very well and good, but you wrote clearly and honestly, and that, I think, is what's really more important.
> 
> In terms of you wondering if you were INFP or INFJ (which is totally normal! The J/P distinction is usually the most confusingly described, and I struggled with that, too--you are definitely not alone), you could also take a look at the cognitive functions.
> 
> ...


Hmmm.. I'm still kinda confused actually, maybe i should go on in my everyday life first and see if two of those functions suit me 

Thanks for your kind words hehe, you're right i don't have to worry about my type. And yeah i join PerC because i wanna know some of great people here, it's been a long time since i know this forum and i finally have the courage to join!! lol. And i hope i can find who i truly am by joining perc haha. And thanks again!


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## Nephilibata (Jan 21, 2015)

if you need help typing yourself, a lot of people who are unsure of their type fill out a questionaire in the 'What's my personality type?' section. It usually helps a lot in identifying which functions you use most.
And welcome to Perc


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## Elfarant (Jan 31, 2015)

Ocean Eyes said:


> if you need help typing yourself, a lot of people who are unsure of their type fill out a questionaire in the 'What's my personality type?' section. It usually helps a lot in identifying which functions you use most.
> And welcome to Perc


Okay i'll try it, Thanks a lot for your suggestion


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## Albert (Feb 7, 2015)

Hi, Elfarant and all,

I am new member also here.. I think it can be changed over the time, because J or P is kind of preference that we can choose. Not sure about this. And also depends on how accurate is the test! Probably we can invent a test that reverse all the words..  Because I always test as INTJ all the time until I decided to change my way of viewing, either J or P, and now I am in INTP. And it feel different.

I am not sure, probably, the term introverted and extroverted are really is there? Because it is our neuron physiologist? Some people get "energy" (what is energy) around people and some need time to recharge it alone, due to sensitiveness of the neuron.
About intuition and sensing probably it is also true but I don't know how can it be?? How can our brain see whole picture instead of details... Not sure.
Thinking and Feeling, about how we base our decision on?
And also the description by Melongazpacho (what a difficult name?? ) of J or P. Somehow if we open up of the "possibility" is more like we are P, for example like when people try to hurt us/me, probably I will see it probably I take it wrong, or they have difficulty during that time, etc... But as INTJ before I would try to find enough datas such that I can "see" why they hurt me, like ok I think because I was not that polite or not to caring. So after certain point I "know" the reason is. Not sure...


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## Teddy_Kuma (Feb 6, 2015)

Elfarant said:


> So maybe i'll start with saying hello since i'm new here. So, hello! :kitteh:
> 
> Well, let's jump to the main problem hehe
> So i had this problem where i'm confused about my type. I've been studying about each type and also its functions. And based on that, i consider myself as an INFJ but i'm still not sure..
> ...


Hi also Elfarant,

I think you're INFJ. When you were describing the "something is doing wrong" bit, that's straight up Fe. Many people think INFJs are just people pleasing, because of how easy-going we are, but if you find something outright unforgivable or inexcusable, you WILL snap. I've done it a few times in my past, it's not something I'm proud of, but I acknowledge it's there. 

Everything else you mentioned is pretty much classic INFJ, from the "mysterious" gut feelings and foreseeing ability (Ni is generally unconscious, I can explain to you how it can NOT be, but it'll take some introspection to realize for yourself), avoidant attitudes to maintain group harmony is classic Fe, weak Se tends to mean you haven't had much time to get comfortable with it yet. 

Other source: One of the friends I talk to all the time is INFP and that person is always amazed at how I can read what they're not telling me, and how I'm "always right" - their words, not mine. 

For me, an INFP is reserved, just like an INFJ, but the reasoning is different: INFJs are initially bubbly to people they like, but then they reserve 99% of their insights because most people find it hard to believe that we generally know things about people and it's hard to explain. INFPs, on the other hand, tend to be reserved because they don't see a point to letting someone in who can hurt them, at least that's how my friend is. 

Hope that helps, if you need more clarification I'll be stalking this thread


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## Nephilibata (Jan 21, 2015)

Albert said:


> Hi, Elfarant and all,
> 
> I am new member also here.. I think it can be changed over the time, because J or P is kind of preference that we can choose. Not sure about this. And also depends on how accurate is the test! Probably we can invent a test that reverse all the words..  Because I always test as INTJ all the time until I decided to change my way of viewing, either J or P, and now I am in INTP. And it feel different.
> 
> ...


Hi Albert 
you're right about needing more accurate tests, but the problem right now is that the tests are way too inaccurate. They're great to get into mbti and get a vague pinpointer as in which type you may have a tendency for, but in this particular system it is impossible to change your type. That is because the 4 letters do not stand for who you are/how you behave, but how you perceive the world. J and P can't be switched; a J type is simply able to mimic some P behaviours and vice versa.
INTP and INTJ are completely different, even if there's 'only' one letter difference. Every type is made up of 8 functions of which 4 are the main ones used. These are called the cognitive functions. For example:
INTP - *Ti* (introverted Thinking) *Ne* (extraverted Intuition) *Si* (introverted Sensing) *Fe* (extraverted Feeling)
vs
INTJ - *Ni* (introverted Intuition) *Te* (extraverted Thinking) *Fi* (introverted Feeling) *Se* (extraverted Sensing)

Looking at the functions you can tell they have none in common. If you'd like to find out more, PerC's cognitive function forum is really useful.
Sorry, I hope you don't feel insulted, that wasn't my intention.


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## Elfarant (Jan 31, 2015)

Teddy_Kuma said:


> Hi also Elfarant,
> 
> I think you're INFJ. When you were describing the "something is doing wrong" bit, that's straight up Fe. Many people think INFJs are just people pleasing, because of how easy-going we are, but if you find something outright unforgivable or inexcusable, you WILL snap. I've done it a few times in my past, it's not something I'm proud of, but I acknowledge it's there.
> 
> ...


If i really am INFJ, i'm not ready to be the rarest, simply because no one will understand me lol (in fact i often wish i wasn't born this way lol but i've tried to accept myself and it feels so relaxing haha). But i think our type also depend on how we perceive ourselves, so when other people try to type ourselves based on our everyday life, the result will be different. But who knows, i don't really understand MBTI myself haha. Oh yeah, thanks! I almost forgot lol (for real!)


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## Elfarant (Jan 31, 2015)

Ocean Eyes said:


> Hi Albert
> you're right about needing more accurate tests, but the problem right now is that the tests are way too inaccurate. They're great to get into mbti and get a vague pinpointer as in which type you may have a tendency for, but in this particular system it is impossible to change your type. That is because the 4 letters do not stand for who you are/how you behave, but how you perceive the world. J and P can't be switched; a J type is simply able to mimic some P behaviours and vice versa.
> INTP and INTJ are completely different, even if there's 'only' one letter difference. Every type is made up of 8 functions of which 4 are the main ones used. These are called the cognitive functions. For example:
> INTP - *Ti* (introverted Thinking) *Ne* (extraverted Intuition) *Si* (introverted Sensing) *Fe* (extraverted Feeling)
> ...


I think the problem on most of the test is that the questions are way too obvious, so we tend to answer it on purpose (like "i wanna be an INTP so i have to choose this answer lol)


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## Teddy_Kuma (Feb 6, 2015)

To be honest, I'm not sure how true that idea is of us being the "rarest" type. I'm very skeptical of statistics if I don't know all the details around it, like sample size, testing method, accuracy of method, etc - it's like saying, 9/10 doctors surveyed say this toothpaste is the best. 

Questions I'd have for them then are: 
Well, how many doctors did you survey? 10 surveyed is quite different from 100, or 1000. 
What kind of doctors did you survey? 50 orthodontists are very different from 500 neurosurgeons, on the topic of toothpaste.
Should we even be asking doctors? Who's to know that a chemical engineer might not be a better choice than a doctor at explaining this? 
How competent are the doctors you surveyed? Fresh out of med school, or proven pioneers in their field? 

Anyway enough about that. 

You're absolutely right - in the end, the only way to really know your preferences is to check them yourself. People trying to type you tend to fall into 2 categories: those that really do want to help you, and those that want to pigeonhole you into a type so they can automate their responses to you or have an idea of how to engage you, and often these categories overlap, haha. 

If you're interested, like how @Ocean Eyes says, take a look at the cognitive functions. I found those to be so much better at helping me understand who I am. (Apologies if I don't use @ properly, I just joined yesterday and don't know this command very well)


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## Elfarant (Jan 31, 2015)

Teddy_Kuma said:


> To be honest, I'm not sure how true that idea is of us being the "rarest" type. I'm very skeptical of statistics if I don't know all the details around it, like sample size, testing method, accuracy of method, etc - it's like saying, 9/10 doctors surveyed say this toothpaste is the best.
> 
> Questions I'd have for them then are:
> Well, how many doctors did you survey? 10 surveyed is quite different from 100, or 1000.
> ...


yeah, you're right. I'm skeptical of statistics as well. But it can be fun sometimes. I often talk to my bestfriends like "make way for the rare breed, please!" lol so i actually don't care about the rarity it's just for fun haha i'm more concerned about finding my true self and it's hard for me somehow.

Yeah, the best way to know is to check it myself. I only have 1 friend that knows about MBTI but unlike me, he's not really interested about it. But he does know a bit about it, so he often types me but only kidding most of the time. I told him i'm INFJ and he don't believe me lol :laughing:

I've looked at the functions and how they work. But i guess i'll read about them again haha thanks for coming to my thread and also for your help!


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

@Elfarant

WELCOME!!!

I'm seeing "P-ness" more than "J-ness" in what you wrote, but try looking here and see which one feels right to you.


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## Albert (Feb 7, 2015)

Hi Ocean Eyes, (means do you like to see ocean??) 

why is it impossible? I read about that Ti, Ni,... and tried to understand it but still not sure.. The thing about J or P is a preference, no? Preference means something that we can choose. If me that is rely more on intuition and I that have introverted personality with thinking decision making, choose to see world differently, instead of fixes in the schedules or structured to be more in possibility then everything just flip from INTJ to INTP. Even my inferior function (which was Fe before in INTJ) now turns to Se (in INFP). How do I notice this is when I was stress in INTJ condition, I will indulge in the activity that related to physics things (sensate activities), sorry to say this but can be like addiction to something.. This happened because as INTJ I tend to absorb lots of informations for my introverted feeling but I can not "see" my surrounding. Now as INTP, I tended to want feeling assurance (extraverted sensing) from others when I am in stressful mode.

What do you think? Even my way of seeing problems completely change as I notice. I can think better on doing Math, for example, since introverted thinking is my dominate function. The bad things are I care less about deadline, before if I say I will do this before Friday, most likely I will. But now I just forget it!


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## Albert (Feb 7, 2015)

@Elfarant

Yes, indeed it can be a problem! But I think also, if we are honest to ourselves and understand the MBti principles then we can just figure out ourselves better. Or even like you said redirect ourselves to be really either J or P?? Hmm.. I think as INTJ I tended to judge the characters of others without I try to understand them for a long time... but more based on clues that I got and processes it in my intuition and then make decision by logic. (the intuition that I accumulated prior knowledges, I did try to read books or informations about things as effective as and purposeful) But now I am more seeing people openly can do different kind of motives that I need to understand first.. There are just millions of possibility for me that they can do certain action. So because of that I can be more relax around people now, before I have an idealism how they should behave towards other and in the case that does not happened in the reality I can be very hurtful.


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## Nephilibata (Jan 21, 2015)

@Elfarant, yes, that's the exact problem. If you're familiar enough with the tests, it's very easy to manipulate the result by picking the answers which will give you the result you want.

@Teddy_Kuma, I also think it's a bit wild to assume INFJs to be the rarest type. Too many people don't know about MBTI and there's always a chance that people are mistyped. Like you said, a bigger, more accurate sample is needed.



Albert said:


> Hi Ocean Eyes, (means do you like to see ocean??)
> 
> why is it impossible? I read about that Ti, Ni,... and tried to understand it but still not sure.. The thing about J or P is a preference, no? Preference means something that we can choose. If me that is rely more on intuition and I that have introverted personality with thinking decision making, choose to see world differently, instead of fixes in the schedules or structured to be more in possibility then everything just flip from INTJ to INTP. Even my inferior function (which was Fe before in INTJ) now turns to Se (in INFP). How do I notice this is when I was stress in INTJ condition, I will indulge in the activity that related to physics things (sensate activities), sorry to say this but can be like addiction to something.. This happened because as INTJ I tend to absorb lots of informations for my introverted feeling but I can not "see" my surrounding. Now as INTP, I tended to want feeling assurance (extraverted sensing) from others when I am in stressful mode.
> 
> What do you think? Even my way of seeing problems completely change as I notice. I can think better on doing Math, for example, since introverted thinking is my dominate function. The bad things are I care less about deadline, before if I say I will do this before Friday, most likely I will. But now I just forget it!


Haha, no, 'Ocean Eyes' is the name of an album by a band I really like. It sounded nice, so I chose it as account name. Plus it's my favourite album of theirs so far xD

Now to why it's impossible to change types in MBTI. The thing is, MBTI is a system. Like in any system, it has rules and doesn't work properly if you don't use them. For example, take mathematics. If you don't observe the rules used in maths, it at some point becomes impossible to solve a problem correctly or get the right result.

*One rule of MBTI is that your type can't change*.

*Another rule is that each of the 8 functions come in pairs: Te and Fi, Ti and Fe, Se and Ni, Ne and Si*:
This means if you use Ti, you also use Fe or if you use Ne you use Si. On the other hand, if you use Si you don't use Se, if you use Ni you can't use Ne or if you use Fe, you don't use Te, if you use Si, you don't use Se *in your main function stack* (the first 4 functions you use. The other 4 functions are your so called shadow functions. I won't elaborate any more on them because I don't quite understand them myself yet). Also, each of the function pairs are considered opposites, as in Te is the opposite of Fi. *Your dominant function is the opposite of Inferior function, always*.

And also, *everyone uses a Thinking function, a Feeling function, an Intuition function and a Sensing function*. Your type is determined by which position each of these functions has in your main function stack. Now, I'm not saying that it's impossible to use functions other than your main ones, we use them all the time. The shadow functions just tend to come out when we're stressed or in other bad situations.

Then on to how your main function stack is built. Your first and most used function is called *Dominant function*, your second is your *Auxiliary function*, your third is your *Tertiary function* and the last one in your main functions stack is called the *Inferior function*. Each one of these functions is developed at a different stage in your life which is why you will probably find yourself changing a lot than from how you used to be; you'll suddenly think in a way differently from before and if you take a personality test during these different phases and get a different result, your function development could be the reason.

Ok, breakdown of the functions of each of the 3 aboved named types, INTJ, INTP and INFP.

INTJ:
Dominant function - introverted Intuition (Ni)
Auxiliary function - extraverted Thinking (Te)
Tertiary function - introverted Feeling (Fi)
Inferior function - extraverted Sensing (Se)

Conclusion: *Ni Te Fi Se*

INTP:
Dominant function - introverted Thinking (Ti)
Auxiliary function - extraverted Intuition (Ne)
Tertiary function - introverted Sensing (Si)
Inferior function - extraverted Feeling (Fe)

Conclusion: *Ti Ne Si Fe*

INFP
Dominant function - introverted Feeling (Fi)
Auxiliary function - extraverted Intuition (Ne)
Tertiary function - introverted Sensing (Si)
Inferior function - extraverted Thinking (Te)

Conclusion: *Fi Ne Si Te*

As you can see, all these types are completely different in the way how their functions are stacked. BUT, it's important to remember that *your type is only the way your brain perceives and processes information*. Behaviours aren't exclusive to one type only. In the same way, one type may appear as a completely different one, if you look at their behaviour. This being said, anyone is able to view things from a different perspective. It really has very little to do with having Ti or anything else as your dominant function. Likewise, your ability to do maths has nothing to do with it either.

I really strongly suggest that you look up more about the cognitive functions. I'm sorry to say that your knowledge of them seems to be all over the place.


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## Teddy_Kuma (Feb 6, 2015)

@Ocean Eyes - Wow. That is very eloquently put. I'm going to quote you on this from now on as a primer for most people


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## bigstupidgrin (Sep 26, 2014)

AlexanderHoff123 said:


> Wow! I already knew I was an INFP but I pretty much said yes to all the P statements . Thanks for sharing.


It's funny how that works


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## Elfarant (Jan 31, 2015)

Ocean Eyes said:


> @Elfarant, yes, that's the exact problem. If you're familiar enough with the tests, it's very easy to manipulate the result by picking the answers which will give you the result you want.
> 
> @Teddy_Kuma, I also think it's a bit wild to assume INFJs to be the rarest type. Too many people don't know about MBTI and there's always a chance that people are mistyped. Like you said, a bigger, more accurate sample is needed.
> 
> ...


So you mean even if someone is sooo disorganized, that someone could be a J not P, cause it's not about our behaviors, right?


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## Albert (Feb 7, 2015)

@Ocean Eyes,

How about the avatar? Is it the meteor? The times where the dinosaurs gone I suppose.^^ Probably I need to hear their song.. 

Yes, indeed in Mathematics.. There are rules called axioms that we need to accept. But if we change the axioms then something interesting can be happened. Take Euclidean geometry for examples, people thought that was the "absolute geometry" before Gauss's. But how suppose we do geometry on the sphere?? The "straight" line is not that straight! So we need to change the axioms.

``One rule of MBTI is that your type can't change." Probably, I don't know a lot about that this rule is in MBTi system? Anyway, I will not ask where do you quote all of this, since I have just wanted to share my personal experience probably it can help to clarify Elfarant's question and I thanks to you to explain your knowledge to us..  (it is needed time to write all that long exposition and it is nice!!) But you see it can be a breakthrough to the scientific academy if people can understand the possibility that we can choose "the cognitive function" that we want to use. And why not? Probably it will be better for our nature of human understanding. 

About how our brain perceives and receive informations, I think are also still needed to be understand. But I can't say anything about it, I don't know at all. I tried to read the work by Sechenov for example, but still need to study more before I can say something..


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## Nephilibata (Jan 21, 2015)

Elfarant said:


> So you mean even if someone is sooo disorganized, that someone could be a J not P, cause it's not about our behaviors, right?


Yes.
Like, my room is soo messy. I'm not even kidding. I initially thought I was INFP. But the thing is, INFPs tend to have a thousand things going on at once. They often start a project and then start on a new one because they get bored/it takes too much energy to finish it. While I have this tendency with my writing, I find starting something new to be the hardest thing ever; and this is something the INFP does naturally. I'm much better at picking an idea and sticking with it until the end. If it's something important pertaining the way that I live, I never start something I don't finish. I hate doing house chores but I do them anyway because I know they have to be done and I don't want to live in a pile of dirty dishes or laundry. I don't necessarily plan everything I do, but once I do have a plan, I stick to it. I like to make to-do lists because they ensure I do something with my day and I don't forget to do something. Making a list makes me feel more secure and more in control.
As comparison, my ESFP sister. She likes to use her calendar to organise her life (something I decidedly don't do. I have one, but don't use it that much. May change once my life starts getting busy) which is commonly seen as a J trait. BUT, she leaves her stuff all over the apartment. Her room looks worse than mine. Her floor is covered in various clothes or other things at all times while I have something of an 'organised mess'. She leaves her dishes until I do them or ignore it to teach her lesson and then she'll do them (which unfortunately does not result in her regular participation of household chores). She's much more spontaneous than I am and even if she has a plan, she'll easily change her mind.

The thing is, Ps can still display J traits and Js can still display P traits. I wouldn't dismiss them completely because they can hold some truth, but in no way would I rely on them heavily or even completely.

EDIT: Also, about the J trait of always being on time and P being late - not necessarily. My ISFP father is definitely like this. When he gets told a party or some other events starts at a specific time, he has no problem with getting there an hour later. My sister is a little more strict about this kind of stuff than he is but still fairly calm. I get antsy if I'm running late. I'd much rather be there half an hour earlier or on time than 5 minutes late. If someone gives me a time, I'll be there on the dot or earlier.

In Addition: There's analysis on how INFPs and INFJs differ. Here's the link to the thread http://personalitycafe.com/infj-forum-protectors/436346-infp-vs-infj-functional-analysis.html
Good luck


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## Nephilibata (Jan 21, 2015)

@Albert - I'm sorry to say that's kind of the point. I don't speak up unless it's about a topic I'm knowledgeable about. It was thoughtful of you to want to help, but I'm afraid what you're saying may just confuse people further, especially since you admit to not knowing enough about the topic yet.


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## Albert (Feb 7, 2015)

@Ocean Eyes, @Elfarant

Ah.. I don't mean to confuse you. But probably for J, they have sense of closure about what they know about something, it is also positive thing I guess.. Another alternative is we can keep studying both type INFJ and INFP at the same time and see what are applies? I don't know this maybe make you more confused.. ~~


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## Elfarant (Jan 31, 2015)

@Ocean Eyes - You're right. My friends told me that i'm a messy-organized person haha. I find it hard to start something too cause i'm often too busy thinking about the best plan to do it lol but once i fixed my plan i'll stick to it to the very end. It's like "i'll do it until it's done or not at all." hahaha 

Okay thanks and good luck too at whatever things you're doing right now hahaha


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## Nephilibata (Jan 21, 2015)

Albert said:


> @Ocean Eyes, @Elfarant
> 
> Ah.. I don't mean to confuse you. But probably for J, they have sense of closure about what they know about something, it is also positive thing I guess.. Another alternative is we can keep studying both type INFJ and INFP at the same time and see what are applies? I don't know this maybe make you more confused.. ~~


You're right, wanting/needing closure is a very J thing. Other P-types I know don't have the need for this.


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## Albert (Feb 7, 2015)

@Elfarant, @Ocean Eyes 

Cheers!  See you on other post maybe..


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## Albert (Feb 7, 2015)

Hi @Elfarant and @Ocean Eyes,

I have read more about the different between P or J, I am sorry if it is too much! First about these statements:
About seeking closure --> It is often said that J types prefer closure. This notion may derive from their tendency to plan ahead, as well as from the firm and direct nature of their expression. And while it is generally true that J types experience more closure and convergence in their beliefs, it is inaccurate to suggest that all J types seek closure in their beliefs. It is primarily EJs, not so much IJs, who can be understood as seeking closure in their beliefs. Since IJs' dominant function (Si or Ni) is a perceiving, it seems somewhat contradictory to suggest that IJs are preoccupied with closure, at least not inwardly. As inners perceivers, IJs are actually far more leisurely and easygoing inwardly than they may outwardly. --> EJs actively seek and readily experience closure, EPs neither strongly seek nor readily experience closure, IJs experience, but do not strongly seek, closure, IPs seek, but do not readily experience closure.


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## Albert (Feb 7, 2015)

The second ones is about Structured(J) vs Unstructured (P)
Judging if often associated with a preference for structure, especially external structure. There is some truth to the notion of J types having a stronger preference (or tolerance) for outer structure than P types. Js tend to be more at home, for instance, in structured work environments. P types, by contrast, can be feel bored, restless, or stiffed when surrounded by too much structured. While Ps don't mind imposing structure on themselves or their surroundings, they dislike feeling controlled or constrained from without. 

With that said, a preference for external structure does not necessarily translate into being neat or tidy. There are plenty of IJs, who shoo diminished concern or effort with respect to being neat, tidy, or organized. Of all types, ESTJs seem most concerned with being neat and tidy, since an orderly living space can be associated, to some extent, with S (i.e. attention to concrete matters), and to a larger extent, with Te (especially dominant Te).

Planned(J) vs Open-Ended (P) --> The J preference is commonly associated with planning ahead, while Ps prefer to keep things more open ended. Since planning, by definition, involves reflection before action, introversion may also contribute to a propernsity for planning. Hence, IJs are predicted to function as the most careful planners. They are particularly likely to plan (often extensively) for special events involving other people, such as vacations, holidays, birthdays, and so on. 

So, I can related this reading with what you (Elfarant and Ocean Eyes) said about having tidyness and having note but don't use it that much, because INJ dominant function is perceiving function! So they will keep options open before showing extraverted judgement Fe.


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## Elfarant (Jan 31, 2015)

@Albert

Thanks for the explanations of J and P. I think i'm more INFP than INFJ since people around me always concerning about my laziness. And they told me that i'm the laziest -_-v haha. I've also read some differences between INFJ and INFP. And it also thanks to you guys, now i know where i belong hehe ^_^


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## Albert (Feb 7, 2015)

@Elfarant I don't think lazy is the right terms sometimes..  Some people have different priorities in life and different point of view too.. Since I guess we live in the world once, some can argue they need to enjoy fully their life experiences.. Anyway everyone is uniquely determined too by they way they are raised, their school, environment, etc.. (so somehow in their brain the experiences that are attached are different for each). So even for twins, each of them is unique individual that need to fulfill their talents. Btw: I recognize your final fantasy picture?? 

This is for self understanding things: I read more at least they have terms like this for INFJ (The counsellor), INFP(the healer). They share the same terms as an "Idealist" that is being enthusiastic, trusting intuition, yearning romance, seeking identity, prizing recognition, aspiring sage.


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## AlexanderHoff123 (Oct 28, 2014)

People confuse laziness with hating to do stuff you don't want to .


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## Grandmaster Yoda (Jan 18, 2014)

Ni/Fe or Fi/Ne. A difficult question yes.


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## Elfarant (Jan 31, 2015)

@Albert

yeah you're right, but i live in both reality and dream world, though i often ignore the reality (but not completely) haha. but that's the way i enjoy my life, i can't live a day without daydreaming.. i guess the difference between J and P is that Js like to plan everything first and Ps like to plan on the go, it's not about laziness, lateness or messiness. i'm raised by my parents, they always told me to stop being lazy and daydreaming everytime, but they really understand that that is the way i'm refreshing myself so they never forced me to do something, they only gave me some motivational words to encourage me. yep, a twins may appear like each other but they could be really different inside. i love final fantasy!!  though i've only played 4, 7, 8, 9, and 10. and 9 is my favorite because the main character is so lively yet has a really dark past

okay thanks, that'll really help


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