# Why are NT's typically regarded as the most intelligent temperament?



## Grandmaster Yoda (Jan 18, 2014)

delphi367 said:


> No, but I have heard a lot of arguments along those lines before, and which do actually reach that conclusion. I just thought you might be implying the same thing as they were. It seems you weren't, after all.
> 
> There was even this one INTP I knew who actually went so far as to tell me how he ranked the four temperaments in terms of how "evolved" they were. NTs were at the top, NFs came second, and you can imagine how Sensors faired. He _did_ throw me a bone and say he thought INFJs were the fifth most intelligent type after the four NTs... but still, that doesn't make me more okay with his paradigm.


To be honest with you if we took the INTP stereotype and made it an animal living in a wildlife space it would die rather quickly. Finding physical needs like hunger pesky and annoying, striving to be independent from society. These are just general stereotypes, but I don't see sitting down and thinking about the universe makes one more likely to survive. I think the only reason people can exist with such a lifestyle and temperament is because there is already a human society protecting them from other animals. It's also true that NT's can problem solve to advance technology in order to survive but stereotypically being less concerned with other people is a weakness. Why are there so few NT's? That's all I have say about NT's being more "evolved". We should ignore it anyway because all types are equal and their negatives and positives interact to create society as a whole.


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## googoodoll (Oct 20, 2013)

Sporadic Aura said:


> This is also why I think you think ISTJ's are the most intelligent of the sensors.


No, because i haven't met a dumb one, and they nearly always are, the stereotypical dumb sensors might be ESxPs


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## Kingdom Crusader (Jan 4, 2012)

If this is the case, I don't really get to benefit much from it. In fact, I just got a private message from another PerC member, commenting on how he likes Asian women. Nothing wrong with it; I'm flattered. I'm just saying that I don't have people coming up to me because they're thinking that they want to talk to a smart woman. There's a reason why my user name is "Asian_Chick". The world doesn't see me as an NT. I get the sense that a lot of people think being smart and pretty is not possible. So I get defaulted to all the stereotypes, EXCEPT the smart Asian.

Anyhow, I'm not at all upset about it. The association between being an NT and being super intelligent is probably over rated.


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## Figure (Jun 22, 2011)

NT's are typically regarded as the most intelligent temperament because they tend to have high IQ's, think abstractly and logically at the same time, devise ideas that other temperaments do not have the capacity to construct, and are better at hard sciences, math, engineering, etc. 

There's just one problem. A cognitive function is an archetype. MBTI is a generalization of archetypes. Keirsey is a generalization of MBTI. So essentially, a generalization of a generalization of 8 archetypes. Can you think of a more worthless designator for things like intelligence? I can't. 

The reality is that a nondescript number of people who are INTP, ENTP, INTJ, or ENTJ by cognitive function actually fit the description of "NT" in the way Keirsey describes it, because the way Keirsey describes it is a heaping load of bullshit. The Keirsey temperaments are extrapolations of cognitive type, twice or three times-removed from Jung, which itself says very little on intelligence to begin with.


Get a real theory and attribute it to intelligence, not some _Being Senile for Dummies_ rendition of typology.


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## Robopop (Jun 15, 2010)

I think it is more common for NTJs to be viewed as highly intelligent and they seem to place more emphasis on psychometric tests and other standardized measurements(Te), NTJs and NTPs are pretty different from one another, what most NTJs perceive as intelligence is usually what STJs value highly as well. 

ENTPs _are_ likely underestimated because they don't quite carry the demeanor of a serious academic or authority but more of a entertainer, remember they have more in common with the other ExxPs than with NTJs.

INTPs seem the most humble and easygoing of the NTs, they probably more often than not are just plain overlooked, having an unassuming, passive demeanor is not a good way to make an lasting positive impression on people.


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## Scelerat (Oct 21, 2012)

I think it comes down to "I follow you, and I'm already 8 - 10 steps ahead of where you started". The NT - IQ correlation is simple, IQ tests tend to measure logical thought, pattern recognition and abstract thinking, which are 3 things any NT with respect for themselves should do well at. 

On the other hand I struggle more with communication than the various ESTP and ESTJs I've met do. I'll have an idea/image in my head and struggle when it comes to communicating it outwards and my "go to" "This is an NT" sign is if the person understands without me having to go on at length trying to explain it to them. 

I also notice a "fellow NT" in that there are communication barriers that are just not there. You do get a "social proof", "social value" situation, but at the same time you notice that they get where you're going and understand the underlying principles you are getting at quite easily. 

With XSXJ I notice a tendency to want to focus on concrete aspects of something, and wanting to apply a given model in a given situation without a need/desire to apply it to other situations.


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## Robopop (Jun 15, 2010)

sole observer said:


> To be honest with you if we took the INTP stereotype and made it an animal living in a wildlife space it would die rather quickly. Finding physical needs like hunger pesky and annoying, striving to be independent from society. These are just general stereotypes, but I don't see sitting down and thinking about the universe makes one more likely to survive. I think the only reason people can exist with such a lifestyle and temperament is because there is already a human society protecting them from other animals. It's also true that NT's can problem solve to advance technology in order to survive but stereotypically being less concerned with other people is a weakness. Why are there so few NT's? That's all I have say about NT's being more "evolved". We should ignore it anyway because all types are equal and their negatives and positives interact to create society as a whole.


Actually you are vastly underestimating INTPs in this regard, they are not _usually_ as adept as STPs in crisis situations but they could hold their own, they are better at quick brainstorming, troubleshooting, and coming up with creative solutions to problems as they arise than a lot of other types, they are more adaptable than a lot of the J types. Ti is more situational than Te, it is more immediate and can more readily change it's approach as the situation changes, Te and Pi needs ample time to prepare before handling a situation.

Furthermore animals(if they were the INTP "stereotype") have many, many different adaptions for surviving in their environments, a adept adaption in one environment can be an automatic death sentence in another environment.


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## Bahburah (Jul 25, 2013)

We just have a naturally greater intellect than most types and we actually focus on intellectual activities for fun/interest. 

While other types can do this, it docent come quite as natural as it dose for an NT.

As for being smart? 
I think thats just an illusion our intellects give off.

I'll admit that I don't know what I'm doing half the time but having a deeper understanding of the world really helps when looking at things.


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## Kingdom Crusader (Jan 4, 2012)

If I end up helping invent something, stop the spread of a disease, come up with an insight that might help medical science, would that make me more intelligent? If some deemed me intelligent for any of the above, that would be an opinion. It's subjective, just like this whole personality stuff is subjective. As for the question, I might take it into consideration if I had an opinion poll?


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## catherder (Jun 30, 2012)

in experience and observation, it was this

the ability to see things in between not in black and white all the time..

perspectives..its important. 

most ST will say this is bad, that is good.. no grey area at all. i find it a lot easier to talk to NT's. yes we do argue but not as much as i argue with an ST.


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## ENTrePreneur (Aug 7, 2013)

googoodoll said:


> I don't know if it's true, but i haven't seen a dumb NT but i have seen dumb people from the other temperaments, although i think ENTP might be the NT type most prone to being unintelligent, compared to the other NTs.


LOL yes. We do the worst on the tests, supposedly. We're also supposedly much more intelligent in other forms.

I like to put it this way. In a perfectly controlled environment involving only matters of self, (such as a test), an INTJ will win and prove to be the most intelligent.

In a perfectly strategic board game where the environment is controlled, but there is another player to account for, (like chess), an ENTJ will win and prove to be the most intelligent.

In an uncontrolled environment with no people, (like making a new type of car for all different types of terrains) an INTP will win and prove to be the most intelligent.

But in an uncontrolled environment loaded with chaos and variables and people, (like in Axis and Allies (the board game)).. and ENTP will win and prove to be the most adept at handling that environment

So.. slight bias in how these are represented.. but I'm short on time ATM.. and I can write a much better analogy for board game to type analysis later if you want


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## googoodoll (Oct 20, 2013)

ENTrePeneur said:


> I can write a much better analogy for board game to type analysis later if you want


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## ENTrePreneur (Aug 7, 2013)

googoodoll said:


>


why?


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## Helweh18 (Jul 30, 2013)

CorrosiveThoughts said:


> I think people who bear the weight of intelligence and the curious, introspective nature it entails know that it's far from being an advantage. Authority, regardless of the nature of the government you live under, prefers people who are easily brainwashed and know only what is necessary for them to survive in their particular class of society.


I agree. There have been many times when I have found my intellectual nature to be a curse. I have thought about how much easier it would be just to wake up and be satisfied with an "simple" life. I am constantly thinking, analyzing and working with ideas. There are times when I wish I could just shut my brain down. My constant thinking has even caused me to have insomnia. Not fun!


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## VivianeScrooge (Oct 22, 2011)

Yes, we are. The combination of intuition and thinking makes NTs the smartest of the bunch, especially INTPs and INTJs, because we are both introverted(we are more precise). And from what I've seen, a lot of ENTPs come of as a social intelligent genius. They could manipulate people to do what they want to do, in a very nice way.


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## athenian200 (Oct 13, 2008)

VivianeScrooge said:


> Yes, we are. The combination of intuition and thinking makes NTs the smartest of the bunch, especially INTPs and INTJs, because we are both introverted(we are more precise). *And from what I've seen, a lot of ENTPs come of as a social intelligent genius. They could manipulate people to do what they want to do, in a very nice way*.


Don't most types other than NTs do that? I thought NTs were weirder than everyone else precisely because they DON'T do that, and instead have this weird obsession with expressing honesty and reason, thus making themselves look bad.

I love NTs, but I really wouldn't want to be seen in public with most of them. xD


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## VivianeScrooge (Oct 22, 2011)

@_delphi367_ Hmmm, I don't know. A lot of NTs where I live in have a lot of friends, especially the ENTPs. I'm also drawing conclusions from Steve Jobs. Which was a very successful entrepreneur because of his social intelligence, he didn't have an engineering background but had a lot of links to the best employees. 
Intelligence type doesn't have anything to do with MBTI types. You could have mathematical prowess even if you are an NF(my friend is one. She's an INFP and she skip grades). Or an SJ with musical prowess. It depends on your genes, and when an ENTP has it(and most of the time they have), it will be unstoppable. Because they combine social intelligence with facts, and a pragmatic approach.


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## XDS (Sep 4, 2013)

delphi367 said:


> Don't most types other than NTs do that? I thought NTs were weirder than everyone else precisely because they DON'T do that, and instead have this weird obsession with expressing honesty and reason, thus making themselves look bad.


We don't necessarily have an obsession with telling the truth. INJs might be more inclined to use words that convey the exact state of something because of Te tendencies, but I theorize that NTs are the most comfortable omitting facts and twisting the "truth" when convenient.

If someone were to interrupt an NT eating a very nice steak with the argument that animal meat isn't healthy for people, the NT can say animal meat actually stays healthy _much_ longer than often-served plant matter to get the annoyance to go away. Now, in reality the NT might benefit from adding more vegetable matter to its diet, but that's a matter of _healthfulness_, not _healthiness_. "Healthiness" in this case could refer to the state of well being of the food before it became food.


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## -Alpha- (Dec 30, 2013)

In my experience it causes a certain amount of dissonance holding an idea as true and saying otherwise. Even in situations that are ethically permissible or ones where lying would be a strategically better option, I have trouble giving people half truths or straight lies. The thought process afterward is kinda like "that shit wasn't true! Why did you say that when you know the right answer?"


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## Mathfreak1337 (Feb 11, 2014)

I'm guessing you don't want the answer "because we are" so I'll actually answer this for you. Where we have our N whispering in our ear the galaxy's secrets we have our T to help us process all the information and assist in contingency planning. Our intuition isn't about emotion so much as the facts, patterns, and how things work. Now, if you add an I to that you're really cooking. Instead of blurting out my ideas to my friends I keep it internal and constantly model and shape and idea poking holes in it to see where it's weak until it's ready. 

Basically it's the T that makes us seem so smart. Also the fact that a lot of Intjs have their head stuck so far up their own ass they keep a thesaurus on hand when writing post just to seem intelligent.


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## nordic entp (Mar 13, 2014)

ENTrePeneur said:


> First. Not butthurt. Giving clarity.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, this is a great comparison. I've also found the INTJ types to outperform me in places such as school or if they're given a very specific task in a workplace, however if you're given a task to get done and no instruction, chances are the ENTP will definitely come out on top. The ENTP intelligence is best seen at the lightning speed we adapt to changes in given factors, while the INTP will get annoyed and need time to make a new theory, the INTJ will often get visibly frustrated and insist that the old way is still the best, while the ENTP is already thinking about the new solution.

Quick wit and adaptability is how the ENTP shows intelligence.


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## Pelopra (May 21, 2013)

i have met dumb NTs.
several on this forum, in fact.
...although i guess one would have to define dumb. 
is the guy going around bragging about his 128 IQ dumb? he sure doesn't seem to have much else in way of intelligent thought to contribute...
another common form of NT stupid is a weakness with subtlety, complexity, etc. sometimes seen in completely baseless arrogance.


anyway, like said, abstract thought plus taste for logic comes off as smart to people, and it usually takes a few minutes before one sees through a dumb NT's BS and into the shallow thought and echoing ignorance underneath. (whereas a dumb S may very well have made peace with their shallow interests and unself-consciously displays them from the get-go, without bothering to be pretentious about it.)


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## Resta Um (Apr 13, 2012)

delphi367 said:


> If we accept that line of reasoning though, then the logical conclusion is that ordinary humans are to NTs, what animals are to ordinary humans. Right?
> 
> I mean, if NTs have more of a preference for using the qualities that separate humans from lower primates, then... how exactly do you avoid coming to the conclusion that NTs are "higher up" on the evolutionary scale?



Logically it's quite simple: the distance in abstract reasoning between ordinary humans and other animals is larger than the distance between NTs and ordinary humans.

Now, you got a point: the focus, the output and the expressed inner life of, for example, an ISFJ, does seem closer to those of the other animals than to those of my own. Similar perspectives have been expressed not only by other NTs, but by NFs aswell. It seems to be another S vs N thing. SJ vs NT is probably just the accentuated version.





delphi367 said:


> I don't particularly like that conclusion, and in fact it seems unnervingly close to some of the racial supremacist arguments I've heard before. Except this time, it's hard to produce data or counterexamples to disprove it because of how the group in question is being defined. Any individual who would seem to disprove the stereotype could be considered a member of that group by virtue of their affinity for abstract reasoning, eliminating any defense. Unsettling...



See, whether you like or not a conclusion is irrelevant. Is it a sound conclusion? Does the evidence support it?

It is quite clear that abstract reasoning is one of the main things - probably the main thing - that separates humans from other animals. 
It is quite clear that abstract reasoning was and is the main force behind the advances in humanity. 
It is quite clear that NTs are, on average, better at abstract reasoning.



And regarding the ENTP as the least intelligent NT thing: if your sample is this forum, it is contaminated, as there are lots of ENFPs who typed themselves as ENTPs.


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## OkWhat (Feb 28, 2014)

Resta Um said:


> And regarding the ENTP as the least intelligent NT thing: if your sample is this forum, it is contaminated, as there are lots of ENFPs who typed themselves as ENTPs.


Or a lot of ENTPs come to PerC to goof off and troll instead of trying to impress strangers on the internet how smart they are. :wink:


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## Tzara (Dec 21, 2013)

okwhat said:


> or a lot of entps come to perc to goof off and troll instead of trying to impress strangers on the internet how smart they are. :wink:


lies!


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## Pelopra (May 21, 2013)

-deleted-


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## Resta Um (Apr 13, 2012)

OkWhat said:


> Or a lot of ENTPs come to PerC to goof off and troll instead of trying to impress strangers on the internet how smart they are. :wink:



Not mutually exclusive. And the ENFPs in ENTP cloth are not exactly secretive.

It's unfortunate that the forum has that "don't type others unless they ask" policy. Those who don't ask and/or don't want the others to tell them are often those who most need. And the whole sensitivity before truth thing is annoying.


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## OkWhat (Feb 28, 2014)

Resta Um said:


> Not mutually exclusive. And the ENFPs in ENTP cloth are not exactly secretive.
> 
> It's unfortunate that the forum has that "don't type others unless they ask" policy. Those who don't ask and/or don't want the others to tell them are often those who most need. And the whole sensitivity before truth thing is annoying.


It may not be mutually exclusive but I think if we punched the numbers we would find that is more statistically significant with relation to ENTPs. 

Now, not typing people who don't ask to be typed, that is interesting, I didn't know that was a rule. I am not very good at typing other people yet, especially on here, I have to read a lot of their posts, however, putting people in the box of my choice doesn't sound very appealing to me.


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## Resta Um (Apr 13, 2012)

OkWhat said:


> It may not be mutually exclusive but I think if we punched the numbers we would find that is more statistically significant with relation to ENTPs.



I would say, yes, ENTPs do goof and troll around; and yes, this does affect to some extent how others perceive their intelligence. But the "instead of trying to impress strangers on the internet how smart they are" thing isn't exactly sound. Even the phrasing, nor "strangers" nor "on the internet" seem to be distinctions an xNTP would make when deciding whether or not to display smartness. Trying "to impress strangers [...] how smart they are" is not only ubiquitous among ENTPs, is kinda inevitable: they can't help but share their interests, and their interests can't help but display, for lack of a better word, smartness.




OkWhat said:


> Now, not typing people who don't ask to be typed, that is interesting, I didn't know that was a rule. I am not very good at typing other people yet, especially on here, I have to read a lot of their posts, however, putting people in the box of my choice doesn't sound very appealing to me.



Why do you think you are good at typing yourself?

If putting people into boxes doesn't sound very appealing to you, there are two possibilities: or that'll change, or you're not an NT.


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## Red_Setting_Sun (Jun 20, 2013)

-


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## Resta Um (Apr 13, 2012)

Krisena said:


> -


Wise move.


Your signature makes me wanna vomit my last six or seven meals, by the way. It's virulent and idiotic and made me just a little bit more misanthropic.


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## OkWhat (Feb 28, 2014)

Resta Um said:


> Why do you think you are good at typing yourself?
> 
> If putting people into boxes doesn't sound very appealing to you, there are two possibilities: or that'll change, or you're not an NT.


Never said I typed myself, I took the tests and received input from people who know me as well my own self evaluation. The second line I quoted from you only makes sense if I run with the false assumption that you are a more evolved NT than I. However I am NT and I won't change, because I USED to judge people and put them in my boxes then I grew up, it's not NT thing, it is humbling understanding of how insignificant you are in comparison to everything else. Anyways, I have no desire to cater to this nonsense anymore. good-bye! :tongue:


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## Red_Setting_Sun (Jun 20, 2013)

Resta Um said:


> Wise move.
> 
> 
> Your signature makes me wanna vomit my last six or seven meals, by the way. It's virulent and idiotic and made me just a little bit more misanthropic.


The only reason I deleted my message was because I skimmed through the thread and noticed other people had already pointed out what I said in a much better way.

As for my signature, what's problematic about it? Do you think Bruce Lee was into typology?


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## Resta Um (Apr 13, 2012)

OkWhat said:


> Never said I typed myself, I took the tests and received input from people who know me as well my own self evaluation.



That's a somewhat better method, but couldn't it be wrong?




OkWhat said:


> The second line I quoted from you only makes sense if I run with the false assumption that you are a more evolved NT than I.



Not necessarily, the change between the two could occur more than one time. And how do you know it is a false assumption?




OkWhat said:


> However I am NT and I won't change, because I USED to judge people and put them in my boxes then I grew up, it's not NT thing, it is humbling understanding of how insignificant you are in comparison to everything else. Anyways, I have no desire to cater to this nonsense anymore. good-bye! :tongue:



Oh, but it is a NT thing alright: the intelligibility of the world, which includes people, and kinda presumes the classification of those people (what you would call "put people in boxes"). 

"I grew up, it's not NT thing, it is humbling understanding of how insignificant you are in comparison to everything else" - and you claim to be an NT. Very funny. No, mister whatever, I am not "insignificant in comparison to everything else". Not even you are. We are insignificant in comparison to some things. I am insignificant in comparison to some things. Every other person in the world is not one of those things. And "understanding" things doesn't seem to be your strenght. You should go and fill the world around with joy and platitudes.

I appreciate the early chicken out.




Krisena said:


> As for my signature, what's problematic about it?



It's anti-intelectual. It makes a virtue out of a flaw, namely, non-thinking. "Feeling" is unrealiable in almost any application. Thinking supported in empiricism - and its corollary: logic - is the most reliable tool, and, in most cases, the only tool.


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## Red_Setting_Sun (Jun 20, 2013)

Resta Um said:


> It's anti-intelectual. It makes a virtue out of a flaw, namely, non-thinking. "Feeling" is unrealiable in almost any application. Thinking supported in empiricism - and its corollary: logic - is the most reliable tool, and, in most cases, the only tool.


I don't necessarily agree with you, but if it makes you feel any better, I doubt _that's_ what he meant.


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## Laguna (Mar 21, 2012)

That's a broad statement as intelligience is multi-layered and multi-dimensional.


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## Resta Um (Apr 13, 2012)

Krisena said:


> I don't necessarily agree with you, but if it makes you feel any better, I doubt _that's_ what he meant.



A quote means more than the intent of who originally said it.


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## Red_Setting_Sun (Jun 20, 2013)

Resta Um said:


> A quote means more than the intent of who originally said it.


Yeah, but that's besides the point.


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## Resta Um (Apr 13, 2012)

Krisena said:


> Yeah, but that's besides the point.



Your time is over.


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## Red_Setting_Sun (Jun 20, 2013)

Resta Um said:


> Your time is over.


Was just trying to cheer you up, dude.


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## Resta Um (Apr 13, 2012)

Krisena said:


> Was just trying to cheer you up, dude.



There are more effective ways to do that, mister Krisena. You could, for instance, blow me really wet, or you could hang yourself in the closest luminaire. Or both. And I mean all that in a friendly, trying to cheer you up, kinda way. =D


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## Resta Um (Apr 13, 2012)

PS: Sorry to disappoint you, but I was not serious about the "blow me" thing.


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## OkWhat (Feb 28, 2014)

Resta Um said:


> That's a somewhat better method, but couldn't it be wrong? ....
> 
> <insert blah blah blah>
> 
> ...


Ugh, I can’t believe I am biting on this stupid bait but I find you increasingly annoying.

1.	Void of emotions and total lack of empathy is not a NT trait. Having no emotions and lack of empathy is the trait of a psychopath. Maybe you are both and getting them mixed up, I don’t know. Most NTs are born with emotions and do have them their entire life. However, due to their analytic, logical thought processes, they find through time that emotions do not add value when trying to make the best logical decision. So they tend to logically counter by pushing them away from their consciousness, which also results in them not being emotionally externally to other people when compared to other types.


2.	Putting people and ideas into boxes defined by your own paradigm is idiotic, IMO. Rules, Stereotypes, and Prejudice are the straps and chains that bind us to ignorance and hinder our quest for better understanding. Not saying I do not have tendencies to bring my prior knowledge into a new situation, that is impossible for anyone, but to box them into my previous understanding is me wasting an opportunity to learn something new. I can always process it afterwards and decide logically if the idea has validity or if a person is worth talking to again in the future.


3.	You sound like one of those NTs that can’t understand other people, have trouble dealing with other people and life itself. Instead of admitting you have a lot to learn, you just whine and complain that if everyone was as smart as you and thought like you the world would be a better place. Yeah, it would be for you but not everyone else. It seems you are uncomfortable with the idea that you can’t understand other people, how they feel, or how to deal with them, so you decide to just stamp everyone else as stupid and lacking the “understanding” to understand someone like you. Well, yeah, that is the only outcome if you define the rules and boxes by your own understanding, everyone else will always come up short compared to you in your own world.

4.	And for “chicken out” comment, all I can say is “Well, you are just a big Poop-Head!”


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## XZ9 (Nov 16, 2013)

Meh, anyone can read.


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## 80047 (Mar 21, 2014)

NTs... 
<3


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