# Sticky  NT Haven States



## openedskittles

What states are ideal locations for NTs to live?
In this thread, I encourage you to describe your city/state (or one you know well) in a way that touches on topics NTs might consider important in deciding where to live, or suggest a place that you think might be an NT Haven.

Below is a chart showing each state based on the average score of test-takers from each state on each of the "Big 5" categories (courtesy of Facebook app: My Personality):


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## Kevinaswell

Minneapolis, Minnesota in the USA is the shit.

It's the shit.

There isn't really anything bad about this city, it's got it all covered. And a thing about Minnesota is EVERYONE is nice  We met this kid that moved here from Philly that is now our room mate, and it tripped him out hardcore when he first got here because people were actually nice and honest. He like didn't know how to handle himself it was so funny. He's traveled ALLLLLL around too, and there isn't a place like this he's said. Otherwise he'd have settled there, and not here.

Which is great for an INTP. Nice rules because no one gets pissed at me for being a dick, cuz they generally get it too. There are just no hard feelings cuz everyone is on the same page kinda. 

There is a ridiculous amount of diversity here, as well as an obscenely deep art scene (Atmosphere started his rap career out here, there are actually songs about walking down streets and shit like blocks from my house) with rap, painting, and anything else that is bullshit and artistic--we got it. 

Also. No one cares about pot. It's still illegal, but no one gives two shits really. 

In addition to it being a completely awesome constantly overlooked city, if you ever get sick of the hustle and bustle and retarded people (because come on, they are everywhere. No escaping it.) there is sooooooooo much nature of almost every kind and you only gotta go 20-30 minutes out of the city. And you'll forget the city is even there. There are mountainous (well, rocky. Our mountains aren't too hardcore) areas with bluffs and shit, loooonnggggggg prairies and shit with lots of farmlands and livestock. Lots and lots of forests for camping (which happens a lot cuz boy it's fun) or just hanging during the day to peace out on the city.

The University of MN as well as a shit ton of other colleges are here, so it's pretty safe to assume that most people you meet aren't retarded. Which is GREAT. 

I just really like Minneapolis and living here <3


































Plus, I think it's fucking beautiful. So beautiful. There is this bridge, man. Such a good view of the city.


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## openedskittles

I actually went on a stint where I was trying to find the best city (and still am) and Minneapolis is awesome. I guess most people overlook it, but I didn't. The walkway system downtown reminds me of the tunnels in Houston. Basically, there's a reason it's the location of the Best Buy HQ and the Mall of America!

However, I was worried about 2 things:
1) The northern side has bad crime. Minneapolis has more rapes per person than any city in America. Shocking I know, but it's in the lead by quite a bit.
2) The local government is right on the verge of bloat. The taxation isn't ideal and ordinances (especially some proposed ones I've heard of) could be getting out of hand very quickly.

Also, it's not really _that_ diverse. It's one of the whitest large cities in America. Perhaps it's crazy diverse for Minnesota, but it's actually very rare to have a city this large be this white (in America). That said, diversity craze is a very shallow thing to me, I always thought it was a feeler type thing.

It is totally beautiful though, that's what every kid wishes their car carpet city looked like.


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## Kevinaswell

Dude yea right there is an entire mexican town like 8 blocks away they do a bunch of meth there >.<

And north Minneapolis super ghetto and that's where all the black people live >.<

(You know how it goes, not being an asshole).

So iunno...but being here 19 years almost 20 now total, I don't see all too many white people. Plus that room mate of mine that's traveled's got muh back.

But yup  Government sucks here. But whatever, that doesn't effect me at all.

And yea, fuck the MOA.


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## openedskittles

Kevinaswell said:


> Dude yea right there is an entire mexican town like 8 blocks away they do a bunch of meth there >.<
> 
> And north Minneapolis super ghetto and that's where all the black people live >.<
> 
> (You know how it goes, not being an asshole).
> 
> So iunno...but being here 19 years almost 20 now total, I don't see all too many white people. Plus that room mate of mine that's traveled's got muh back.
> 
> But yup  Government sucks here. But whatever, that doesn't effect me at all.
> 
> And yea, fuck the MOA.


I take it the 20 years you've lived there have been most of your life. I recommend you travel more, because (I'm not kidding) Minneapolis statistically has an extremely white population for its size. The "mexican town" really says nothing besides maybe that Mexicans are a rarity and you have to travel 8 blocks to find them. The diversity is actually far below average in Minneapolis.

Let me show you a comparison from city-data dot com to give you an idea:

Races in Minneapolis:​ 

White Non-Hispanic (62.5%)
Black (18.0%)
Hispanic (7.6%)
Two or more races (4.4%)
Other race (4.1%)
Other Asian (3.6%)
American Indian (3.3%)
Chinese (0.6%)
Vietnamese (0.6%)
_(Total can be greater than 100% because Hispanics could be counted in other races)_ 

Races in New York:​ 

White Non-Hispanic (35.0%)
Hispanic (27.0%)
Black (26.6%)
Other race (13.4%)
Two or more races (4.9%)
Chinese (4.5%)
Asian Indian (2.1%)
American Indian (1.1%)
Korean (1.1%)
Other Asian (1.0%)
Filipino (0.7%)
_(Total can be greater than 100% because Hispanics could be counted in other races)_ 

Races in Los Angeles:​ 

Hispanic (46.5%)
White Non-Hispanic (29.7%)
Other race (25.7%)
Black (11.2%)
Two or more races (5.2%)
Filipino (2.7%)
Korean (2.5%)
Chinese (1.7%)
American Indian (1.4%)
Japanese (1.0%)
Other Asian (0.9%)
Asian Indian (0.7%)
Vietnamese (0.5%)
_(Total can be greater than 100% because Hispanics could be counted in other races)_ 

Races in Chicago:​ 

Black (36.8%)
White Non-Hispanic (31.3%)
Hispanic (26.0%)
Other race (13.6%)
Two or more races (2.9%)
Chinese (1.1%)
Filipino (1.0%)
Asian Indian (0.9%)
American Indian (0.7%)
Other Asian (0.5%)
 _(Total can be greater than 100% because Hispanics could be counted in other races)_ 

Races in Houston:​ 

Hispanic (37.4%)
White Non-Hispanic (30.8%)
Black (25.3%)
Other race (16.5%)
Two or more races (3.1%)
Vietnamese (1.7%)
Chinese (1.2%)
Asian Indian (1.0%)
American Indian (0.8%)
Other Asian (0.6%)
_(Total can be greater than 100% because Hispanics could be counted in other races)_ 

Races in Philadelphia:​ 

Black (43.2%)
White Non-Hispanic (42.5%)
Hispanic (8.5%)
Other race (4.8%)
Two or more races (2.2%)
Chinese (1.2%)
Other Asian (0.9%)
Asian Indian (0.8%)
Vietnamese (0.8%)
American Indian (0.7%)
_(Total can be greater than 100% because Hispanics could be counted in other races)_


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## Kevinaswell

Well no, I agree.

On both accounts, the Minneapolis stuff as well as I need to travel more.

But you know what? It's just not within my family. Sorry. All we could really do was camp.

Anyhow, ultimately I wasn't talking about just "Minneapolis" but mostly the surrounding suburbs, because that's where I spent most of my time growing up.

And yup.

Very, very diverse.

More-so than the city.

Especially around the U of M area (which is a chunk of the city, that shits huge).

There are basically only white people.

(Who'd have guessed? Sadly.)


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## openedskittles

Eh I know what you mean. People cluster, forming "sides of town."
That reminds me of something kind of funny I heard. Someone asked about moving to San Antonio and about which side of town was the good side. Someone else responded "Outside" ha ha!


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## Mutatio NOmenis

From looking at the map, perhaps oregon.


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## entpreter

I won't say where I'm from, but I will say that I don't like those maps. They suggest that people in my state are very open-minded (good), unfriendly and neurotic! ha (could be)


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## alanv

From my experience, the west coast is compatible with my ways. Washington and Oregon are sort of ambiguous on those maps, but they have some very good qualities compared with most of the other states I have lived in. Florida is not really a state I would recommend. I also liked Colorado a lot. It is hard to say what would qualify as an NT state, but some of the west coast-major cities are intellectual hubs. Seattle is progressive and technology oriented. Portland is very open minded and progressive. San Francisco is very progressive and technology oriented. The outdoor activities are also great in these areas.


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## openedskittles

On the facebook app, it does rank each state based on how close it's average OCEAN index is to your own. It also guessed that I was an ENTJ based on my answers, so I'm assuming these results would be similar for other ENTJs and not too far from other NT's.
Here were the top 10 states with closest averages to myself as an ENTJ:
1. Nevada
2. Colorado
3. Montana
4. Florida
5. Washington
6. Texas
7. Arizona
8. Oregon
9. California
10. Tennessee

However, this is based on data collected from facebook users. This is obviously a problem because facebook users are usually more affluent than the general population, however, I would be most likely to interact with people in any state who would have a facebook, so I actually like the way the data is skewed.


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## openedskittles

alanv said:


> From my experience, the west coast is compatible with my ways. Washington and Oregon are sort of ambiguous on those maps, but they have some very good qualities compared with most of the other states I have lived in. Florida is not really a state I would recommend. I also liked Colorado a lot. It is hard to say what would qualify as an NT state, but some of the west coast-major cities are intellectual hubs. Seattle is progressive and technology oriented. Portland is very open minded and progressive. San Francisco is very progressive and technology oriented. The outdoor activities are also great in these areas.


The northeast probably isn't an NT haven unless maybe you're insulated in a pocket of them, but I'm not sure that I would enjoy these places as much as you do. To start, I am pretty disgusted by progressive government and the kinds of people who proclaim themselves to be intellectuals (irrational artsy types and academics). If you're like most progressives, you're assuming I hate gays, abortion and smoking, especially if you knew I was from Texas, but that's not it at all. I just hate when people think the government should solve their problems or especially make decisions for them. It really all boils down to the irrationality of progressives.


I have thought about living in Washington, specifically Seattle, and it does seem nice. However, there are some issues with wasteful spending by the local government (who could forget the million dollar toilets?) and people who are just out of touch with reality that turn me off. A Seattle local told me about how there are areas around Seattle where people grow up believing whites are mentally superior, it's just the norm to them, and that some people in the city mourn the loss of graffiti that gets painted over. Academia has a significant presence as well, and I find that to be a pool of racism, waste, and elitism under a cover of intellectualism and progressivism.

Oregon can be nice to look at, but I would much rather live in Seattle or San Fran. While Dallas is a "poster child for urban sprawl" Portland is a poster child for restrictive zoning. For a variety of reasons, the most merit-worthy being to reduce pollution and increase property value, Portland wants to prevent a large suburban population. Here in Austin, the local government does this, too. However, it causes drives that should take 20 min. to take 2 hours at certain times of day and it's one of the main things I dislike about Austin. The whole idea is very progressive, however, it leads to increased cost-of-living and (as noble as it sounds) is designed to force lower-income people out of parts of the central city. I must be crazy open-minded to see value in the suburbs, but a lot of people do, and to offset it's already high cost of living, Portland really needs more high-paying jobs, and to attract those, it'll need to have a more business-friendly taxation policy, and probably need to allow more freedom in zoning to give prospectve movers more options. Neither of these are likely to happen.

San Francisco is a beautiful city, and I absolutely love visiting, but if I lived there, the city ordinances and taxation would drive me crazy. San Fran does have a lot of very high paying jobs that somewhat offset the huge cost of living and taxes, but there really is no reason they need to be so high in the first place. Like New York, it's really one of those cities that you need to love to live there, because you are paying a lot for the city. However, my relatives from San Fran are a good example of the kind of people I don't care to pay so much to live around. A lot of political ideas have come from San Fran. Some were good, such as the progress in gay rights, but most are an unnecessary burden and the reason why the California government is so bloated.


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## The Psychonaut

guys...just STAY the FUCK out of INDIANA...the northern parts arent bad if you like being raped while simultaneously getting shot up with heroin, crack, and getting mugged. the middle parts arent bad if you like staring at corn and soy beans, and the southern parts arent bad if you like ******** and meth.

well...Indiana does have a really nice town near where i live, its called Bloomington, and its the gayest city in America, so i can pick up my ladies easier with less competition. its got a low crime, nice ecosystem, plenty of jobs, like right now its not even feeling the economy problems at all...that probably mostly from Indiana University tho...


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## bendomolena

I partially agree with those charts because I live in NY (wooh) and it's a very open, neurotic and disagreeable place.. I'm not exactly sure about other places though.


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## Dominion

Dying to ditch Norther Virginia for somewhere out west towards the Rockies. I've always though Colorado, Montana, and Arizona to be nice looking places. I plan to make a trip there so I'll see what the people are like out there eventually


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## Nipi

I once lived in the western Mass (Pioneer Valley) for some years and absolutely loved it. Except for a few nasty ones I've encountered, people are not that unfriendly. I lived in a fairly small town, where it had pretty much everything I needed - cultural diversity, great outdoors, intellectual atmosphere, art scenes, music scenes, etc. thanks to a bunch of colleges around it. It had small town charms with the convenience of larger-sized cities. Its downside is rather high taxes and relatively high cost of living, but I can take them for what it offers. Any place I lived since then could not measure up to it.

I always had a fascination about New Mexico. It seems like it was cut from a very different cloth from neighboring states like Arizona, Texas or Colorado. There are some parts (like Roswell) that I don't care much at all, but I would love to live somewhere in the Rio Grande Valley for a few years to see how it's like.


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## openedskittles

Nipi said:


> I once lived in the western Mass (Pioneer Valley) for some years and absolutely loved it. Except for a few nasty ones I've encountered, people are not that unfriendly. I lived in a fairly small town, where it had pretty much everything I needed - cultural diversity, great outdoors, intellectual atmosphere, art scenes, music scenes, etc. thanks to a bunch of colleges around it. It had small town charms with the convenience of larger-sized cities. Its downside is rather high taxes and relatively high cost of living, but I can take them for what it offers. Any place I lived since then could not measure up to it.
> 
> I always had a fascination about New Mexico. It seems like it was cut from a very different cloth from neighboring states like Arizona, Texas or Colorado. There are some parts (like Roswell) that I don't care much at all, but I would love to live somewhere in the Rio Grande Valley for a few years to see how it's like.


I know some people from the Rio Grande Valley. It seems to have several problems. First of all, it is not diverse at all (unless you work for admissions for a university, then you would consider it extremely diverse), the people I know from that area all went to high schools that were 90+% Hispanic. There are a lot of immigrants in the area and a lot of poverty, crime, and uneducated people. I've been there a couple of times and it really is a pretty trashy area. People in Texas who are familiar with "the valley" know it as the place they couldn't wait to get away from or as the place that brings down all of the statistics for Texas in all these rankings of states.

I don't know if you really understand what kind of "cloth" Texas is cut from, but a city like El Paso is going to be a lot more like New Mexico than it would be like Houston or Dallas or even San Antonio or Austin. If you are like me (and you may very well be if you are an NT), then you would be much better off looking at one of the other Texas cities I mentioned, Denver, or Phoenix. If you want natural beauty, Denver or Phoenix are good and Austin is okay, too. If you are highly educated and want a place to be ambitious in your career, Houston and Dallas are the tops until CA for most fields, but with much lower taxes. If you want somewhere with something interesting and unique going on, try Austin. However, I strongly urge you to do your homework before moving to the Rio Grande Valley or New Mexico, because it could easily not be what you had in mind.


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## SlowPoke68

Places I've felt totally out of my element: California (though I was born there), Oklahoma, Virginia, New Jersey, Kansas, Nevada, Massachusetts, Connecticut.

Places I've felt surprisingly at peace: Manhattan, Pennsylvanian, Kentucky, Wyoming, Dallas, Louisianna, Missouri, Arizona, New Mexico, New Hampshire.

I currently live in on the front range of Colorado which I would call a pretty good place for an NT, especially if you're a bit outdoorsy.

Minnesota? My whole family is from there. I can't stand it. I would rather people get right in my face and say "DON'T WASTE MY FUCKING TIME" (like in New York) then get the disingenuously soft and sweet handjob that passes as "Minnesota Nice". And there's nothing good to eat there.


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## Diphenhydramine

I should live in the South apparently. Mississippi or Tennessee or something. XD


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## AirMarionette

Facebook told me NY, and I would probably love New York if I went there. I think I'd like Washington, too.

I like living in Florida, though... but I'm dying to go elsewhere, I've never been out of state ('sides my home country).


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## OneiricEntropy

I've been all over the country. I love Madison, WI. I keep coming back.


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## bionic

Fuck NY. The people are so self-absorbed. I've lived here all my life and I hate the people. I don't get why others come here "to make something of themselves". This place is only going to eat you up and spit you out if you don't have a pair of brave balls and a thinking cap on. We don't give a fuck how pretty you are, where you came from, or if your great-aunt died last night. It's about what you can do for me and how quickly you can do it. Other than that, breakwide. Also, I hate tourists even more. They're slow, always in your way, and they just don't fucking understand that you gotta be swift if you're getting off the subway. This ain't rocket science. 

I wouldn't suggest NY for NTs unless you like high and tough competition filled with selfishness, greed, and criticism. People will not think twice about cutting you down for who you are. So be prepared to be tough skinned and know where you stand as a person.

With that.... I'd rather live in Seattle or Newport, Rhode Island.


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## Steven

I live in FL; I don't know much else, but I really like my city compared to others in my state. If I didn't like in southern FL, I'd probable live in southern CA, just because of the weather and beaches. My city's beaches are some of the best in the world and the city is one of the most affluent in the state. Everyone respects each other here and are generally amiable.

The town south of it is worthy of mentioning because it's the oldest, as far as people, per capita than any other in the US. Driving there is utter craziness because old people drive really slow and have no situational awareness what so ever. (That was supposed to be more humorous, but leave it to an NT to ruin good joke material.) I would not recommend living there if you're under the age of 60, but it's nice if you want to find a place to finally die . (Now, I think that was somewhat humorous, since I don't think any NT doesn't appreciate that type of humor.)

Two places that I want to go to is NYC and Colorado. I want to visit the city where my ancestors have lived for 300 years and I want to snowboard on the infamous powder peaks. I've only been snowing boarding once, but I picked it up quick and loved it from the first run, which was an exciting bunny slope!  Unfortunately, The whole mountain deteriorated into an icicle by the second day. On one wipe out, I slid 100 ft and just had to sit there for a while thinking about what it would be like to not snow board on concrete. At least I can dominate and appreciate the powder for its various magical properties when I get to go on some real mountains.

I also want to go to Europe, but the others are more realistic goals to achieve in my adolescence.


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## PeevesOfCourse

Cheap and low-crime. I vote Appalachia. With the advent of the Internet, we can access the information resources we need without traipising to a big-city library. So anywhere low-crime, basically, and inexpensive (gives us more time to study and think rather than work some grindy gig) is good. For me.


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## Sunshine Girl

For the love of all things good and sacred, if you're an "intellectual", stay out of small towns in the South.


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## Scruffy

Michigan is a terrible place for Intuitives, and it is even worse if you are an NF.

We are very cynical here, and there is very little talk about improving Michigan, or changing. Things are done because "it's how they have always been done", so when you start questioning you become outcast-ed and not very enjoyable. Look at the economy here: our sole income was based on automotive and never changed, now we are in a hole because people don't need new cars every 5 mins.

People only care about right now, because right now is fucking hard on everyone. The future is a joke, and our schooling suffers: Who cares about academics when you're 16 with a child on the way?

I can only take solace in two things (pertaining to being an NT here): 

1. There are so many Ts here, and that is always nice.
2. NTs are real here, we don't have super haughty people. Any NT you find here is the real deal.


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## 0 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34

openedskittles said:


> On the facebook app, it does rank each state based on how close it's average OCEAN index is to your own. It also guessed that I was an ENTJ based on my answers, so I'm assuming these results would be similar for other ENTJs and not too far from other NT's.
> Here were the top 10 states with closest averages to myself as an ENTJ:
> 1. Nevada
> 2. Colorado
> 3. Montana
> 4. Florida
> 5. Washington
> 6. Texas
> 7. Arizona
> 8. Oregon
> 9. California
> 10. Tennessee
> 
> However, this is based on data collected from facebook users. This is obviously a problem because facebook users are usually more affluent than the general population, however, I would be most likely to interact with people in any state who would have a facebook, so I actually like the way the data is skewed.


which facebook ap is this? I want it


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## openedskittles

3pnt1415926535897932384 said:


> which facebook ap is this? I want it


It's called "My Personality" and it also matches you up with the average personality type in each college major and they recently added countries.


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## fishier3000

openedskittles said:


> On the facebook app, it does rank each state based on how close it's average OCEAN index is to your own. It also guessed that I was an ENTJ based on my answers, so I'm assuming these results would be similar for other ENTJs and not too far from other NT's.
> Here were the top 10 states with closest averages to myself as an ENTJ:
> 1. Nevada
> 2. Colorado
> 3. Montana
> 4. Florida
> 5. Washington
> 6. Texas
> 7. Arizona
> 8. Oregon
> 9. California
> 10. Tennessee
> 
> However, this is based on data collected from facebook users. This is obviously a problem because facebook users are usually more affluent than the general population, however, I would be most likely to interact with people in any state who would have a facebook, so I actually like the way the data is skewed.


Interesting list. May I place mine for comparison? My index guessed me as INTP.

1. Maine
2. New Mexico
3. Vermont
4. Hawaii
5. California
6. Arizona
7. Virginia
8. Washington
9. Alaska
10. Massachusetts

Although I would have to say that I wouldn't want to live in some of these states.


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## openedskittles

I was doing a personal project where I was trying to figure out what were really the top 10 cities in America a couple months ago and I think I should add my findings to this thread.

THE PROBLEM: The list of cities by population is extremely flawed because some cities simply have larger physical boundaries and most people who call a major city their home actually don't live in its city limits. This brought me to consider the metro area population, which is a very good source, yet doesn't fully account for how important the city is economically. Finally, I decided there is no way one person could realistically value the economic importance, size and potential of each city, so I took a different approach.

MY METHODOLOGY: I looked at Vault and found the top 8 investment banks and top 4 consulting firms in the US. I chose these numbers of firms because it is about where the two rankings have similar scores and stops just short of firms with dozens of offices and leaves me with a dozen firms that average about a dozen offices each. The reason the location of these offices is such a good indicator of how valuable a city really is is because these industries need a large economy with a combination of established economic influence or potential to consider opening an office in any given location.

MY FINDINGS: The results showed a very definite pattern. Exactly 10 cities had an office of at least half of the companies and there was a 2 office gap after these 10. It turns out the top 10 according to my methodology is almost identical to the top 10 according to metro area population minus Miami and plus San Francisco:

1. New York (12/12)
1. San Francisco (12/12)
1. Houston (12/12)
1. Los Angeles (12/12)
5. Chicago (11/12)
6. Dallas (10/12)
6. Boston (10/12)
6. Atlanta (10/12)
9. Washington DC (8/12)
10. Philadelphia (6/12)

I know this doesn't guarantee the culture will agree with an NT (and it certainly will not overall in most of these places) but it does mean there are a lot of opportunities for an NT's favorite careers and there will always be pockets of NT wherever you go. Despite it's lack of personality information, this list should certainly interest an NT simply because a rational person would live somewhere for something as objective as a career first and foremost.



It would be nice, and relevant to the thread, if anyone has any experience, to share how NT-friendly they think these 10 metro areas are.

For example, I have spent time in San Francisco and Houston and must say that Houston is definitely more NT-friendly with career-minded individuals who, while dreaming big or being practical, usually seem to be objective, whereas San Franciscans tend to be largely driven by emotionally charged and subjective motives. I suspect Dallas may actually be the best for NT's of these, but I have spent very limited time there personally and am only going based on what I know from several friends who grew up there. It also seems to be a great place for raising a family, but not the best for being a yuppie, and I would like to yup it up for as long as possible.


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## PeevesOfCourse

I had Houston mentioned to me as a good place to live by a fellow INTJ and an INTP friend.
I had lived out West for awhile before then though, and the immigration issues + dryness I didn't like. I don't like broad flat barely populated plains, either, where tornadoes or wind can just whip right across gathering speed and there's just loads of nothing for miles and miles. Makes me feel like I'd have a long way to walk if my car broke down. I like temperate low-cost areas with extremely low crime. I take my work with me, so I don't have to seek a job in a big city, which I'd prefer not to live in (too noisy, crowded, crime). Another test you can take is the "find your spot" one, which matches you up with a variety of places. Best Places to Live: Compare the Best Cities & Small Towns for You!


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## Thnkr917

Nevermind this comment


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## Thnkr917

Dominion said:


> Dying to ditch Norther Virginia for somewhere out west towards the Rockies. I've always though Colorado, Montana, and Arizona to be nice looking places. I plan to make a trip there so I'll see what the people are like out there eventually


I will second this.
I live in WV just north of Winchester, VA and I am also "dying" to get to Arizona.
I traveled for work for a while and I fell in love with the Southwest. Aside from the obvious and breathtaking beauty of the Southwest here is what I love:
People are laid back. Quirky is fine. An old car that runs is fine. Most people try to eat healthy and try to take care of their health out there. They respect nature and their bodies as part of nature. People get outside every day. They function. They don't worry about what everyone else is doing with their lives, they just live their own. They may be a bit more suspicious and mildly annoyed with people who talk a lot, like me. I would assume that is the native american influence. But even so, they are still not rude or unpleasant. I loved feeling like I could just be me while I was there. I was a lot more comfortable just being by myself wherever I went. I think people are ok with solitary people there. Once again it's probably the native american thing. I guess I could call my experience out there...peaceful.
Yet there are always things to do when you don't feel like being solitary. Phoenix is a VERY busy city and Mesa was alive all night. Sedona was restful but there were things to do. Tucson seemed to be sort of a family oriented place, but I didn't spend more than two days there, so I can only go on impressions. I never rely on what others say about a city I form my own opinion. I only passed through Flagstaff, Gerome and Winslow. Grand Canyon was amazing, of course. I never met one rude person or even an unfriendly one. I just kind of got that, if they were native, they didn't know what to make of my chattering. 
Here everyone is competing with everyone else to have the best stuff. It's all about collecting stuff and bigger houses than you need. Everyone seems to think it is ok to infringe on the space of everyone else either by making your car stereo heard by every car around you or being involved in other people's business or homeowner's associations that tell you how high your grass should be to the centimeter and what color your shades are. Your bosses tell you what to do to the point of dictating the exact shade of clothing to wear to work... etc. 
Everyone is fat and smokes here. You can't even find a decent sized healthfood store and if you do, all the stuff is out of date because no one buys it. Yoga, forget it! It's a sin against god or some crap by half the religions around here, so is dancing. What religion is that anyway? Pentacostal? Baptist? 
Everyone (it seems) thinks that they should have some say in how another person lives. <in a WV drawl> "She cain't do that, God wonts me to stop her". Bahh!
Y'all I am out of here before the snow flies this year.. just tying up some loose ends. 
I had a dream a few weeks ago about putting on a cowboy hat and climbing into an old pickup. The snow was just starting to fall and it was getting dark as I left and I was telling a guy I was heading west. I plan on making that dream happen.
I see me in a little adobe house with a coyote howling at night and a saguaro cactus in the backyard someday.:tongue: 
Is that ENTP enough for you?


----------



## Thnkr917

Sunshine Girl said:


> For the love of all things good and sacred, if you're an "intellectual", stay out of small towns in the South.


LOL! I lived in Orangeburg, SC for a year once. If I hadn't gone down there for a job and been there with others that were there temporarily from other places, I would have died. But we actually had a lot of fun there. Whenever we had a day off we would go to Charleston or Savannah or Augusta or Myrtle Beach and the cost of living was low. 
However the place was insanely racist and only slightly less sexist. I don't think they ever had any other race there besides black or white and the couple of asian nurses I worked with. I went into a bar there with a local once and some old man/idiot slid up next to me (little short "white" girl) and told me a racist joke. I told him off. The guy I was with thought I was gonna die. I might have, if I had been male. The demographics were like 96% black and 4% white. 
Any place can be fun if you make it fun. We just paid attention to the positive like the outward friendliness of the people and the sexy southern drawl of the guys there and the weather. We made up a cheer for the town that we would sing, as we drove back into town, just for fun. We would share experiences about what we saw down there like the advertisement for the "Cooter Festival" (not what you think)! *Boiled peanuts *(great with beer), now that is something I miss from SC. Actually, telling off that racist ^*% off and then telling people about it was fun, once I knew I was gonna live. :tongue: 

I wouldn't change that year for anything and I have fond memories of some great people I met there, but I wouldn't live there, because of the closemindedness and racism. As an ENTP I am far to likely to die expressing my opinion in those types of environments. That being said, it was a little bit unnerving to be the minority for once. It did give me a chance to walk a mile in the shoes of people who are minorities in my world. I have had friends of all cultures my whole life, but that was the first time I was the actual minority.


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## LostInMyOwnMind

Interesting map but Florida #4? I live in the Tampa metro area and frankly if I wasn't born here I wouldn't be living here. I also find the other response from the person who lives in South Florida interesting that they say people there are friendly. People here are for the most part rude assholes who would stab you in the back. That's the people who live here, the rest are tourists who think we all work for them and were put in the state for their vacationing amusement. When I was a kid, Florida had some pristine beaches where you didn't have to crook your neck just right to see the beach between the condos. People knew their neighbors and were actually courteous to each other. I've lived in the same house for 5 years and barely know most of the neighbors which is ok with me because from what I can tell many of them are dicks.


----------



## Fiddler

alanv said:


> Washington and Oregon are sort of ambiguous on those maps, but they have some very good qualities compared with most of the other states I have lived in.


Shh! Shhh! 8C


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## openedskittles

Thnkr917 said:


> I will second this.
> I live in WV just north of Winchester, VA and I am also "dying" to get to Arizona.
> I traveled for work for a while and I fell in love with the Southwest. Aside from the obvious and breathtaking beauty of the Southwest here is what I love:
> People are laid back. Quirky is fine. An old car that runs is fine. Most people try to eat healthy and try to take care of their health out there. They respect nature and their bodies as part of nature. People get outside every day. They function. They don't worry about what everyone else is doing with their lives, they just live their own. They may be a bit more suspicious and mildly annoyed with people who talk a lot, like me. I would assume that is the native american influence. But even so, they are still not rude or unpleasant. I loved feeling like I could just be me while I was there. I was a lot more comfortable just being by myself wherever I went. I think people are ok with solitary people there. Once again it's probably the native american thing. I guess I could call my experience out there...peaceful.
> Yet there are always things to do when you don't feel like being solitary. Phoenix is a VERY busy city and Mesa was alive all night. Sedona was restful but there were things to do. Tucson seemed to be sort of a family oriented place, but I didn't spend more than two days there, so I can only go on impressions. I never rely on what others say about a city I form my own opinion. I only passed through Flagstaff, Gerome and Winslow. Grand Canyon was amazing, of course. I never met one rude person or even an unfriendly one. I just kind of got that, if they were native, they didn't know what to make of my chattering.
> Here everyone is competing with everyone else to have the best stuff. It's all about collecting stuff and bigger houses than you need. Everyone seems to think it is ok to infringe on the space of everyone else either by making your car stereo heard by every car around you or being involved in other people's business or homeowner's associations that tell you how high your grass should be to the centimeter and what color your shades are. Your bosses tell you what to do to the point of dictating the exact shade of clothing to wear to work... etc.
> Everyone is fat and smokes here. You can't even find a decent sized healthfood store and if you do, all the stuff is out of date because no one buys it. Yoga, forget it! It's a sin against god or some crap by half the religions around here, so is dancing. What religion is that anyway? Pentacostal? Baptist?
> Everyone (it seems) thinks that they should have some say in how another person lives. <in a WV drawl> "She cain't do that, God wonts me to stop her". Bahh!
> Y'all I am out of here before the snow flies this year.. just tying up some loose ends.
> I had a dream a few weeks ago about putting on a cowboy hat and climbing into an old pickup. The snow was just starting to fall and it was getting dark as I left and I was telling a guy I was heading west. I plan on making that dream happen.
> I see me in a little adobe house with a coyote howling at night and a saguaro cactus in the backyard someday.:tongue:
> Is that ENTP enough for you?


I had some relatives in Arizona for a while (they moved to Alabama). When we visited we rented a house in Phoenix. It was a very pretty setting for sure. Near the top of Saguaro National Park near Tuscon I saw one of the best views I probably will ever see in my life. It was like an ocean of land. I've also been to Flagstaff. It's funny that you mention Flagstaffers as not liking a talkative person because the professor of my professional communications class grew up in Flagstaff. I've also been to the Grand Canyon. Nice places for sure! Of course, now everyone in California and Massachusetts is instantly going to label it as a craphole because they passed legislation that basically just enforced an already-in-place federal law that they disagree with.


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## Neon Knight

To live I'd chose Oregon based on maps and because I've actually given it some thought. I originally would have picked Northern California but there are too many conservatives there as proven by Prop 8 and I don't want to be around that kind of people, besides a State that keeps voting for actors as governors is not somewhere I'd chose to live either. Oregon seems a lot more relaxed and not hot compared to here, where it's been 40C+ lately and I'm sick of it. Since I am not American I have nothing to offer about where I actually live that would be useful to this discussion :tongue:


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## jack london

I live in Washington and the weather is awesome for most of the year but we do have a some rain in spring and early fall but other than that it is mild weather and no religious nut jobs or other types getting into your face.

We actually have a pretty good tech sector (read NT) and our bumper stickers say "keep portland weird" ( i live close to oregon )


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## Neon Knight

I tried to answer this twice already and got an error so I'm gonna try again now.

I think all the north-western states are appealing, I just worry about the lack of sunlight, unless I am completely ignorant of that. If each state was it's own country with no centralized govt with a handful of interests I'd feel at home I'm sure.


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## openedskittles

jack london said:


> I live in Washington and the weather is awesome for most of the year but we do have a some rain in spring and early fall but other than that it is mild weather and no religious nut jobs or other types getting into your face.
> 
> We actually have a pretty good tech sector (read NT) and our bumper stickers say "keep portland weird" ( i live close to oregon )


That's based on the "Keep Austin Weird" shirts/stickers/hats/everything I'm pretty sure originated from Tyler's, which is a shop in Austin that makes a killing selling that stuff as Austin souvenirs. The idea is to support local businesses, because with this many hippies opening shop with dumb business models, they sure wouldn't survive without people 'keeping Austin weird.' The real kicker is that when you ask people why they like Austin and they rattle off a half dozen local establishments, they are almost always mostly chains. I've met several Austinites who were alarmed when I taught them their favorite "local" restaurant is actually a chain.

I'm currently in Austin and I love entrepreneurship, but I'm getting a bit sick of the hippie take on it where you don't try to serve your customers or investors first and instead focus on some kind of charity/green initiative or something else that you want to do that relies on your customers not having regard for maximizing their utility to keep you in business. Judging by how well apple is doing, though, it seems the segment of the market with more money than sense is huge.

As far as the pacific northwest, I have definitely eyed Seattle as a nice place to live, but Portland with it's artificially inflated property values and strict ordinances and zoning laws does not appeal to me as much.


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## Neon Knight

We have rain here mostly in fall and spring too but lately the winters have been warmer and still dark and dreary so anything would be an improvement lol
<<Migraine sufferer, Seasonal Affective, Depression...
I need lots of sunlight to function


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## jack london

Revy2Hand said:


> We have rain here mostly in fall and spring too but lately the winters have been warmer and still dark and dreary so anything would be an improvement lol
> <<Migraine sufferer, Seasonal Affective, Depression...
> I need lots of sunlight to function


Same. I think colorado might be nice being cold and lots of days without rain. maybe when i retire.


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## Exayevie

I love my hometown.

My family moved to Petersburg, Illinois when I was in the middle of high school. I thought it was going to be a disaster. I cried day and night. I tried to convince them to let my live with my friend. And then school started, and I met some of the most amazing people. I'd never fit in anywhere like I fit in here. Honestly, something about Petersburg culture just breeds incredible thinkers. I could move mountains with these guys.

A few months into school, my new friends invited me to some extracurricular meeting they were having at Pizza Hut downtown. I feared I'd be intruding, but they insisted, so I joined. Well we all sat down, and ordered pizza, and I thought to myself "how much are they actually going to get done here?" Then the meeting began, and instantly, whatever they were talking about went way over my head. Building codes and finances and city ordinances. I leaned over and whispered to the guy next to me, "What is it you're doing again?" He said they were starting an art gallery. I was confused. Someone's starting an art gallery and you're helping them raise money? I didn't think high school students could pull off an art gallery - especially in a town of 2600. But that's what they were doing. I joined, we opened it, two years later it's still going strong. The project just won international Community Problem Solvers competition as well.

I really don't know what makes Petersburg so full of ambitious, thinking people. But it's been this way for a long time. In fact, the town of New Salem, just three miles south and now extinct (Petersburg absorbed it), is where Lincoln first lived in Illinois, became a businessman, and taught himself law. The poet Edgar Lee Masters also lived and died here. And recently, the tiny school system (about 400 students in high school), self-funded a wind and geothermal energy system that made the high school and middle school buildings 100% energy independent. There's still room for improvement - we have a long history of electing mayors that are stuck in the past. But I can tell you this little tiny town is absolutely perfect for an ENTP like me.


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## Ardent15

San Jose, CA and the suburbs here are NT-heaven.


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## Magnificent Bastard

In general, the West Coast is great for NTs. The west coast's prosperity is driven in part by innovative thinking.

I'd say Los Angeles is a great city if you're an NTP, in particular. You can do anything in LA if you're really motivated and visionary. This can range from a career in comedy to opening up your own unique gastropub. LA is a breeding ground for cutting edge stuff. Plus this city is used to wackiness and excess; and I'd say that NTs run this town (Entertainment industry, and to a lesser extent, Tech. in Santa Monica).


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## noz

i had a miserable time when living in Fl. other than orlando(I blame mickey etc absorbing all the nearby Ns), people all over seem to resent and ignore you unless they know you already. Very sensorish and cliquish. might be my I with that though.


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## entperson

New Orleans is NTP central, especially the Quarter/Marigny/Treme. Th culture, as always, is incredible, there's a diverse music scene (WWOZ's where it's at!) and it's the ultimate bohemia. This is my short version...I could go on for hours about how much I love New Orleans, but I will spare you all. :tongue:

And of course who can forget the total lack of open container laws and bars open 24/7. And the Saints...and food!


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## openedskittles

entperson said:


> New Orleans is NTP central, especially the Quarter/Marigny/Treme. Th culture, as always, is incredible, there's a diverse music scene (WWOZ's where it's at!) and it's the ultimate bohemia. This is my short version...I could go on for hours about how much I love New Orleans, but I will spare you all. :tongue:
> 
> And of course who can forget the total lack of open container laws and bars open 24/7. And the Saints...and food!


But Cajun is a mix of French and *******. That's a hygiene combination no antiperspirant can handle!


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## entperson

openedskittles said:


> But Cajun is a mix of French and *******. That's a hygiene combination no antiperspirant can handle!


Can't say I run into too many Cajuns in NOLA, that's more west. Creole is more of a New Orleans culture, which is a mix of French, African, Native American, and Spanish. And their food is amazing. :tongue:


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## amosbanga

The cities of San Diego and Los Angeles aren't too bad, but I can tell you I've had an awful time in Orange County. I've found it image conscious, materialistic, shallow, conformist, and fairly conservative. Intellectuals and creative thinkers are often ridiculed, especially among the young. Appearance seems more important than substance. This is generally speaking, of course, and some areas are better than others. But yeah, they call OC "the bubble" for a reason. I had a much better time in LA County, though I'm still thinking there are better places to live.


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## Zoness

I grew up in Galesburg, Illinois. Town of 30k people, its alright I guess but very religiously conservative and Feelers far outnumber thinkers. I live in Peoria, Illinois (110k population) now and I've not been here long enough to evaluate the people since I'm not around a ton of locals since I go to University here. I can imagine I will be out as soon as school is done for me. High crime rate, poor city planning and it pretty much smells disgusting for no distinguishable reason a lot of the time.

I would like to move to the midwest, probably Seattle for the tech industries plus I don't mind rain/overcast for most of the year as long as I have moderate temperatures. Although I hear some neighborhoods in Seattle are filled with a bunch of hipster-types which annoy me. I am not sure if that has any basis in fact, though, I just heard there were a lot of SoCal transplants. My best job opportunities are probably in California but I do not like the CA mentality of image, although I may have an inherent bias against CA. Also sunny weather most of the year and heat would drive me crazy. Arizona was neat for being a desert but I would never live there either.


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## amosbanga

I was also thinking Seattle sounded good. The weather and scenery definitely appeal to me, and I'd prefer elitist to anti-intellectual, haha. NorCal might be okay, as well.


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## Zoness

amosbanga said:


> I was also thinking Seattle sounded good. The weather and scenery definitely appeal to me, and I'd prefer elitist to anti-intellectual, haha. NorCal might be okay, as well.


I agree completely lol


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## topgun31

amosbanga said:


> The cities of San Diego and Los Angeles aren't too bad, but I can tell you I've had an awful time in Orange County. I've found it image conscious, materialistic, shallow, conformist, and fairly conservative. Intellectuals and creative thinkers are often ridiculed, especially among the young. Appearance seems more important than substance. This is generally speaking, of course, and some areas are better than others. But yeah, they call OC "the bubble" for a reason. I had a much better time in LA County, though I'm still thinking there are better places to live.


I've been around and lived in many places, and Orange County was my least favorite. I ended up adjusting to every place I moved to except orange county. I lived in the heart of "The Bubble," and the shallow part really got to me. Pretty boring. Pretty fake. No culture there. No sense of originality. VERY conformist. Conservative for the wrong reasons. If Nietzsche wanted to give an example of a place that fostered "the last man," orange county would be it. To me, it represents everything that is wrong with America. Now I'm talking about the heart of the OC; I know (some) places in orange county that are better than this.

LA is not bad (if you're not near/around Hollywood), but the traffic is HORRIBLE.

Nor Cal (specifically San Jose and SF) seems like a cool place to live for NTs, but I haven't been there long enough to judge the place accurately.

My favorites? 
San Diego - pretty laid back and friendly city. Diverse culturally, politically, and economically. Want city life? Live in downtown. Want suburbs? There's plenty. Not to mention the good weather and nice beaches. There's definitely a niche for NTs in SD. Especially with all the biotech/medicine companies.

New York City - This may be an exaggeration, but I'd say this place is the antithesis of Orange County, culturally speaking. The most unique cultural dynamic I've experienced anywhere in the world. As an ENTJ, I felt at home in this place. The place oozes creativity.


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## Zdorobot

The San Francisco Bay Area is pretty amazing for NTs, I'd say. The majority of people are very open and there's a pretty high standard of living. The high standard of living part is more true for the East Bay, but it still costs tons o' money to live anywhere in the Bay Area. Because it's AWESOME. 
San Francisco, Oakland, and Berkeley have everything. Literally everything. All sorts of ethnic food, Burning Man-type clothing stores, hookah bars, fancy theatres, department stores, smoke shops, and whatever other various things you'd need.
The Bay Area is fantastic.


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## Zoness

If I was forced to live in California I'd choose San Jose. Inflammatory comment time: I'd rather not live in San Francisco because something about it strikes me as really pretentious, the whole hippie feel. I like liberal, modern and progressive but I don't like the way it seems to be executed in San Francisco. Meanwhile as a computer person I'd probably feel more at home in Silicon Valley anyways, even though job saturation has got to be horrendous. 

Portland, OR is always an option too, especially for the weather and scenery.


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## Ecky

I grew up and still live near the space center in Florida (about half an hour east of Orlando), and I've always liked the area pretty well - at least compared with the rest of Florida.

Most people here are fairly open-minded, laid-back, and not so concerned with appearances. I haven't run into any religious nutjobs. The beaches are not bad, I have nothing bad to say about the weather, and the cost of living is pretty low. Melbourne and the Cocoa area are quiet, but Orlando isn't far away if you're looking for something to do. There isn't much sense of community, but it suits me fine as I'm a solitary creature. 

Things were looking pretty good 5 years ago, but I fear many of the NTs will be moving to greener pastures if NASA doesn't get more funding. Boeing, Harris and Lockheed are still here, but the area might be starting to dry up... I've been thinking about Seattle.


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## skycloud86

My top fifteen states were (my lowest from 46 to 51 were Nevada, Utah, Idaho, Mississippi and District of Columbia, which isn't really a state)- 

1 Vermont	
2	Delaware	
3	Maine	
4	Hawaii	
5	Massachusetts	
6	New Mexico	
7	Pennsylvania	
8	Virginia	
9	Connecticut	
10	Maryland
11	New York	
12	New Hampshire	
13	Ohio
14	New Jersey	
15	California

My top fifteen countries were - 

1	Slovakia	
2	Finland	
3	Czech Republic	
4	France	
5	Japan	
6	Vietnam	
7	Hong Kong	
8	Chile	
9	Brazil	
10	Italy	
11	Lithuania	
12	Taiwan	
13	Israel	
14	Thailand	
15	Palestine

Selected others - 

49 Canada
54 Sweden
55 Norway
62 New Zealand
69 United Kingdom (my own country)
78 Ireland
85 Denmarlk
93 United States


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## skycloud86

Where does everyone think the best places in the UK to live would be for a NT?


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## Tad Cooper

skycloud86 said:


> Where does everyone think the best places in the UK to live would be for a NT?


Nowhere. Get out while you can  
(To Canada!)


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## Zoness

skycloud86 said:


> My top fifteen states were (my lowest from 46 to 51 were Nevada, Utah, Idaho, Mississippi and District of Columbia, which isn't really a state)-
> 
> 1 Vermont
> 2	Delaware
> 3	Maine
> 4	Hawaii
> 5	Massachusetts
> 6	New Mexico
> 7	Pennsylvania
> 8	Virginia
> 9	Connecticut
> 10	Maryland
> 11	New York
> 12	New Hampshire
> 13	Ohio
> 14	New Jersey
> 15	California


I'm curious: what is your criteria for the states? Although I would agree with the lowest states you listed. I am interested in what makes the high ones good.


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## skycloud86

Zoness said:


> I'm curious: what is your criteria for the states? Although I would agree with the lowest states you listed. I am interested in what makes the high ones good.


It's from an application on Facebook which listed states showing how suitable they were for your personality.


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## skycloud86

tine said:


> Nowhere. Get out while you can
> (To Canada!)


Is Canada more NT-friendly?


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## Zoness

skycloud86 said:


> It's from an application on Facebook which listed states showing how suitable they were for your personality.


Ah interesting...I still wonder what the app's criteria was. I will investigate.


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## Quinault NDN

Portland, Oregon. Where else are you going to find a bookstore that takes up a whole city block?
Seattle is okay. I enjoy the subs of Seattle better. Everett isn't to bad.
Just be warned. Two seasons, warm rain and cold rain.


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## Monty

i like where i live in california because there is so much diversity and its interesting. it has everything from beaches to forests to big cities and farms


----------



## ragamuffin

NT haven area has got to be the Bay Area. Home of every important internet company known to man, the Bay Area is ripe with start-ups and inventive minds. I grew up just outside the Bay and went to college in San Francisco and was really lucky to have to opportunity to go to places like the Googleplex as well as several other tech conferences. I have several programmer friends, all of whom were able to establish themselves due to their locale. The vibe in the Bay is amazing, and, as an NT, I can honestly say that the open mindedness and progressive thinking helped foster by own intellectual path. 
I currently live in Nashville where things are obviously different. However, it is still a great city and with a nickname like _the Athens of the South_ you can't go wrong.


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## Cover3

skycloud86 said:


> Is Canada more NT-friendly?


Canada is a very big place, with very broad differences across the board, but from where I am, I wouldn't say it's a NT heaven, if there even is such a thing.


----------



## Saskia

*INTP in VT*

I'm an INTP, used to live in London, UK, moved to NYC and for the past 5 years have lived in Burlington, VT. For me, Vermont (specifically Burlington) is an NT haven.


----------



## Dashing

Amsterdam is nice I guess.


----------



## Mr. Limpopo

I really loved Portland, OR, I think it's a definited NT haven


----------



## Coburn

I LOVE San Diego. Also adore Wyoming and Arizona. 


...that probably tells you everything you ever needed to know about my political views.


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## error

I'm attracted to Washington. I think it would be a good place to live... maybe it's a bit expensive, but I'll manage. Maybe it's kind of rainy, but I like that kind of weather. As for the people, eh... I'm never going to find a place where I'm comfortable around the people so really not something to worry about.


----------



## MegaTuxRacer

Houston and Austin are actually pretty great places for NTs. Both are really chill and both have a good bar scene. Austin is better for anyone in technology or the arts. Houston is great for anyone else.


----------



## elixare

Silicon Valley


----------



## Mr. Limpopo

Washington and Oregon are very good for NTs as well as NFs


----------



## koalaroo

Not the Southeast!


----------



## Chloerson

I live in Colorado, and I absolutely adore it.


----------



## Empty

NYC, Tokyo, Shanghai, Beijing, Oslo, Berlin, Paris....


----------



## Audeamus

New York City. Big enough and busy enough to be anonymous.


----------



## Legate

spylass said:


> I would much rather be a gas than a solid. I could just float around and dissipate when I felt like it. How ideal.


What're you talking about? Being plasma would be the best! All the floating around everywhere of gas, but also you can take a shape when you need to be with the application of some magnetic fields, and if you're sufficiently ionized, you can also burn through whatever the hell gets in your way. That sounds like an ideal state to me!


----------



## Persephone

It appears most people here are American. Well, if any of you Americans ever get sick of the land of the "free", check out Berlin, Germany.

It is 

1. Big enough to feel anonymous
2. Order and discipline are BIG there. People follow the rules in this city and don't fuck things up for everybody. To buy newspaper you literally deposit one euro and take it. No vendors needed. Because people don't cheat.
3. Germans tend towards introversion. People don't bother you unless
4. You look super lost and need help. But be aware that
5. They are not nice. They are KIND (I've never been more helped anywhere else than I have been in Berlin), but not NICE. If you're acting like an idiot, prepare to be told off. People have no qualms about that.
6. It's rich with history and culture- lots of meet ups for all sorts of interests happening there. And good public universities. 
7. It's clean. People are responsible. They don't steal your shit. While I'm sure people have had stuff stolen before, it's fairly uncommon. Crime is very low. One of the safest cities
8. Lots of weirdos and hipsters around- but they keep to themselves and are very courteous if ever you interact with them. They don't do weird shit to you at all. Frankly, that's what makes a city come alive for me. I hated Frankfurt. Too straight laced. Too proper and well dressed. Probably full of asshole bankers.
9. English level is very high among most Germans. Germany and Austria have some of the best English speakers outside of an English speaking country.
10. Unlike the French stereotype, all Germans I've known genuinely enjoy it when you try to speak their language and are very encouraging. They don't mind if you botch it. They are also some of the most loyal friends I've had. Another foreigner said: it's hard to make friends with Germans but once you do they're friends for life.

Personally I'm moving there next year. Of all the numerous cities I've lived in, no other stood out to me as being this wonderful. Not just for NTs (okay, maybe not for the thin skinned people who can't stand German bluntness)


----------



## Drakes

So this thread has established that the Pacific Northwest, the Bay Area, and Minneapolis are great for NTs. Who am I to disagree? Maybe also New York City. But those places aren't for me (except the Bay Area, if I were wealthy.) I like warm and sunny, pretty nature and vegetation, and relaxed people.

We've established that Austin is a warm and sunny NT haven. Houston and New Orleans also gets some upvotes.

I'm going to throw out some cities I haven't visited that seem like they might have some potential for me. Tell me I'm wrong, or any other input you have! I don't mind small cities, as long as metro population is over 250,000 or so.

Sacramento
Albuquerque
Tucson
Miami
Charlotte
Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill, NC
Asheville


Note that I intentionally left out Atlanta.


----------



## visallia

Tezcatlipoca said:


> College towns.


Especially when your college is on top of a mountain and you live on said mountain away from people. 

Yay!


----------



## Tezcatlipoca

Introverts Like Mountains, Extroverts Like The Beach | Co.Exist | ideas + impact


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## ArBell

If you move to Singapore, you'll meet TONS of NT. But a lot of them will make you rethink your love for NTs.


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## tamarara

I would recommend scandinavian countries, Netherlands, Germany, Switzerland and/or Austria. People there are kind but keep to themselveses, they are quite blunt, everyone 'behaves', religion is something private to them and I think that that is their way of making the world around them more efficient. Plus extroversion is not preffered over introversion. And we can actually see these countries have some of the most efficient, high quality state systems in the world. I haven't been to Africa and Asia in the most part so I would love to hear about how it is for NTs to live in these regions.


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## EntropicBeing

I live in Malaysia, this place seems okay for NTs. As for best place for NTs... I dunno still a student.


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## txstats

Germany is my first choice. Definitely not Asia, at least for me. People there are very intrusive.


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## Parrot

This is what I'm talking about


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## Tzara

Drunk Parrot said:


> This is what I'm talking about


I mean I get it... 
seriously.. 
the stable room size for horses is important but imagine them like bunk beds and in larger rooms you can hold two to three horses and then you can cut the expenses on walls between rooms.

Then again I suppose you need to know the regulations but you're the expert anyway


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## FueledByEvil

I think this is the proper order of things. 

But alas I am always confused so the proverbial grain of salt applies.


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## Wolf

I think that Seattle (Washington State & Oregon in general) is a very "NT" environment. 

There's a lot of development in the area, especially in regards to technology, which some NT's are big on. It's also a very rainy place, so there's usually a good excuse to stay indoors and work on a project or just relax. The scenery and nature of the area is also very beautiful, I'm sure that NT's would enjoy exploring it to get out of their heads every once in a while.


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## Captainaij

I was born in England but moved to Nigeria at a young age. So if an NT had to move to Africa, I would suggest the island part of Lagos, Nigeria. Only if you're an xntp though because there's a lot of Fe in the atmosphere lol!


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## Mephi

I really enjoyed living in Southern California. Yeah the traffic is awful but you can find almost anything to do there. I changed hobbies and was able to meet new people all the time. Plus the weather was great. Some communities were more closed-minded than others but there is so much diversity there that I had no trouble finding people who were open-minded and laid back. But to be honest, I kind of enjoyed getting into a random debate and trolling the occasional snob from time to time too. I wouldn't live directly in LA though. The suburbs nearby were much nicer, and sometimes a lot cheaper to live in.


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## Mr Oops

From Big Five my traits are:
openness, ambiversion perhaps, unorganized, non neurotic, non agreeable.

New Mexico?


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## Rventurelli

I _really like_ *small towns*. I live in a *small town* in *Central Pennsylvania*. It is _rare_ to find *high IQ people* to have _deep conversations_ with, however, it is _safe_, _quiet_, _very high_ *social capital* as neighbors _know and help each other_ and, also anything that I need on a _daily basis_ is _close by_. Rarely when I go to a *conference* or *concert* I drive to *Washington D.C* or nearby areas.

Unrelated, but it always amuses me how the _original Dawn of the Dead_ took place not far from here.


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## visceral

downtown (i like the commotion/activity/busy-ness without actually interacting with it; just observing it so to speak)

or 

cabin in the woods with water nearby


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## isaac_a15

The Psychonaut said:


> guys...just STAY the FUCK out of INDIANA...the northern parts arent bad if you like being raped while simultaneously getting shot up with heroin, crack, and getting mugged. the middle parts arent bad if you like staring at corn and soy beans, and the southern parts arent bad if you like ******** and meth.
> 
> well...Indiana does have a really nice town near where i live, its called Bloomington, and its the gayest city in America, so i can pick up my ladies easier with less competition. its got a low crime, nice ecosystem, plenty of jobs, like right now its not even feeling the economy problems at all...that probably mostly from Indiana University tho...


I lived in Indiana for 11 years and agree completely. I was from the central part of Indiana, and it's primarily *******/hick, factory workers, and farmers, although the entire state is like that imo. Racism is very prevalent in the state, although communities like Indy, Columbus, and Bloomington might not be as bad as the rest of the state. Oddly enough, people who are from the state are blind to these issues.

On a separate note, each person has their preferences. The Midwest is generally extroverted, so I'm not very crazy about that. For example, random strangers would approach me and want to engage in conversation. Not even the social niceties like "how are you?", "nice weather", but rather wanting to tell you all about themselves, their families, get into political arguments, etc.


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