# Keirsey's Typings of Famous People List



## monemi (Jun 24, 2013)

bobnickmad said:


> Interesting, I didn't know about that, thanks. Do you have a source because I searched this info and couldn't find it. I typed him ISTP because I thought the main character in "Farewell to Arms" was a self-insert.


Don't remember, but he was a braggert, a womanizer, a compulsive liar, an alcoholic, a soldier, focused on the now, lacked vision/planning etc... If you've actually read about him, I'm not sure how you could conclude he is anything but an ESTP.


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## ae1905 (Jun 7, 2014)

FakeLefty said:


> I think Tesla was an INTJ rather than an ENTP.


I intend to look at Tesla's work to see what the thought processes were behind it. INTJs are not normally known for their inventiveness, so it is not at all apparent that he was INTJ.


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## EonsInTheNight (Oct 26, 2014)

ae1905 said:


> I intend to look at Tesla's work to see what the thought processes were behind it. INTJs are not normally known for their inventiveness, so it is not at all apparent that he was INTJ.


Interesting comment about INTJs, yeah, I guess their more likely to focus on one big goal, while Tesla had allot of inventions under his belt, so this seems more ENTP.
His brashness and rudeness coupled with understanding of manners could be ENTP who used well his Fe when he needed, but disregarded it whenever he felt like.
He was also discribed as asocial tough, so I assumed introvert because of this.


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## EonsInTheNight (Oct 26, 2014)

monemi said:


> Don't remember, but he was a braggert, a womanizer, a compulsive liar, an alcoholic, a soldier, focused on the now, lacked vision/planning etc... If you've actually read about him, I'm not sure how you could conclude he is anything but an ESTP.


"Benson believes the details of Hemingway's life have become a "prime vehicle for exploitation", resulting in a Hemingway industry.[191] Hemingway scholar Hallengren believes the "hard boiled style" and the machismo must be separated from the author himself.[187] Benson agrees, describing him as introverted and private as J. D. Salinger, although Hemingway masked his nature with braggadocio." 

Also, Sallinger found him much softer than his image. Maybe he was like the Eminem of writers, a rather reserved and hard-working artist who puts forward the image of a macho ESTP.
Overall, ISTP seems to fit quite good. Many of the thing you said above aren't exclusive to ESTPs.


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## monemi (Jun 24, 2013)

bobnickmad said:


> "Benson believes the details of Hemingway's life have become a "prime vehicle for exploitation", resulting in a Hemingway industry.[191] Hemingway scholar Hallengren believes the "hard boiled style" and the machismo must be separated from the author himself.[187] Benson agrees, describing him as introverted and private as J. D. Salinger, although Hemingway masked his nature with braggadocio."
> 
> Also, Sallinger found him much softer than his image. Maybe he was like the Eminem of writers, a rather reserved and hard-working artist who puts forward the image of a macho ESTP.
> Overall, ISTP seems to fit quite good. Many of the thing you said above aren't exclusive to ESTPs.


And you're clearly not understanding ESTP's.


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## O_o (Oct 22, 2011)

I sniffed out people discussing Nikola Tesla : 

He is an INTJ. Te > Ti. 
Ni > Ne
Don't let stereotypes and the "inventor : ENTP" deter (actually, I think Te users are far more likely to actually construct something in the 'real world' over Ti dominants but that's kind of sticky so anyways) . Fi use of Fi user is also fairly easy to sniff out in the sir. 
There are further videos which do a fine job at discussing this.

He has his own corner in Bryant park in Manhattan, isn't that cute? Must be where he met his white pidgin buddy.


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## ae1905 (Jun 7, 2014)

O_o said:


> I sniffed out people discussing Nikola Tesla :
> 
> He is an INTJ. Te > Ti.
> Ni > Ne
> ...


I'm not sure what type Tesla was but ENTPs are not Ti-doms. I started reading about him and noticed a couple of things: one, he was a good public speaker and showman; and two, he had a gambling addiction when young that caused him to leave school. Neither of these things point to INTJ. Otoh, when he was in school, he worked hard and got good grades. But these are just some quick impressions, certainly not enough to type him.


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## O_o (Oct 22, 2011)

ae1905 said:


> I'm not sure what type Tesla is but ENTPs are not Ti-doms. I started reading about him and noticed a couple of things: one, he was a good public speaker and showman; and two, he had a gambling addiction when young that caused him to not finish school. Neither of these things point to INTJ. Otoh, when he was in school, he worked hard and got good grades. But these are just some quick impressions, certainly not enough to type him.


I know ENTP aren't and it can still apply Ti > Fe in this case but again. 
this might be useful in this case if you're interested (he discusses him, so it would be relevant):




Gambling issue may have developed due to inferior Se as well. Or various other reasons not related to being an extrovert. 

Not exactly impling that ENTP aren't capable of completing what he had. But the functions wouldn't fit in his case, as far as I've seen of course. I've yet to see proof of ENTP > INTJ, but I have seen much proof of INTJ > ENTP. 

Also : being a good public speaker and showman =/= auto-extrovert/ auto-non-INTJ.


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## i_really_hate_decisions (Dec 7, 2014)

This has probably been mentioned and is two years late, but the fact that Erwin Rommel is spelled ErVin Rommel is killing me.


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## EonsInTheNight (Oct 26, 2014)

monemi said:


> And you're clearly not understanding ESTP's.


Could you please explain. Hope I don't seem annoying, I'm just really interested to get a more compelling view on the people I type. Why ISTP seems out of the way for you, they're also described as quite adventurous and thrill seekers.


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## Doc Dangerstein (Mar 8, 2013)

Hemingway looked out into the world and he saw what is and expressed it in his writing. First and foremost he was a journalist. His novels are a fictional representation of events taken from his own life: he writes both extroverts and introverts alike. The events of Farewell to Arms and the romance make have taken place in Hemingway's life but it doesn't follow that Tenente is Hemingway. I didn't think the characters were developed in this particular novel, but I feel he captured the demoralizing nature of war. When he develops characters he does so through conversation and what they do in social relationships.

Traumatized and depressed extroverts become reclusive and isolated from others because that is what happens to a person who is depressed and traumatized. He writes about coming home from the war and not being able to connect with people, feeling that no one can understand a veteran's predicament and how they feel always feel separated from their families and society. That's in his short stories. Again he shows you this through events and dialogue without spending too much time in contemplation and inside his character's head. 

Pe-dominants are people who first and foremost notice things about the world. The difference between sensing and intuitive types sometimes lies only in what we prioritize. And Hemingway's a sensor ... and I'll let someone else handle that part because I want to go back to bed. Let's just say he doesn't spend much time contemplating the hypothetical in his fiction or his other writing.


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## monemi (Jun 24, 2013)

bobnickmad said:


> Could you please explain. Hope I don't seem annoying, I'm just really interested to get a more compelling view on the people I type. Why ISTP seems out of the way for you, they're also described as quite adventurous and thrill seekers.


ESTP aren't always 'full on.' Se-Ti. Our families can often think we're introverts because of introverted thinking. We go home and withdraw to a quiet place to think. Not all of us are extreme extroverts. Not all of us are happy go lucky people. We have feelings. We get hurt, we get depressed, we build up defense mechanisms just like everybody else. Your post presupposes we're caricatures instead of people. In which case, any ESTP that you get to know on a deeper level is going to appear to be an ISTP.


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## ae1905 (Jun 7, 2014)

O_o said:


> I know ENTP aren't and it can still apply Ti > Fe in this case but again.
> this might be useful in this case if you're interested (he discusses him, so it would be relevant):
> 
> 
> ...


I disagree with his assessement of Newton. Calculus was created as a tool and not as a branch of mathematics. Newton developed it as far as he needed to in the same way Einstein studied and used geometry only as far as it helped him create his General Theory of Relativity. They were mathematical means to their theoretical ends. And this non-rigorous and pragmatic approach to mathematics is not at all unusual in the sciences. I also disagree with his typing of Tesla. The habit of jumping from idea to idea staying only long enough to see how it could be done is _distinctly _Ne's modus operandus. Ni, in contrast, narrows its focus to one or a few interests and _stays there_, working on them until their ideas are fully realized. Tesla is _so _ENTP in this video it's embarassing the author fails to see it.

The problem with these typings is that these typists don't know the work of the people they're typing.


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## O_o (Oct 22, 2011)

ae1905 said:


> I disagree with his assessement of Newton. Calculus was created as a tool and not as a branch of mathematics. Newton developed it as far as he needed to in the same way Einstein studied and used geometry only as far as it helped him create his General Theory of Relativity. They were mathematical means to their theoretical ends. And this non-rigorous and pragmatic approach to mathematics is not at all unusual in the sciences. I also disagree with his typing of Tesla. The habit of jumping from idea to idea staying only long enough to see how it could be done is _distinctly _Ne's modus operandus. Ni, in contrast, narrows its focus to one or a few interests and _stays there_, working on them until their ideas are fully realized. Tesla is _so _ENTP in this video it's embarassing the author fails to see it.
> 
> The problem with these typings is that these typists don't know the work of the people they're typing.


That's very vague. One or a few interests vs habit of jumping. You say say his interest was only one; science (which is what I mean by vague). Look at what Te does to Ni. Ni stays only as far as it is relevant to stay, until the judging function has been completed and something have been satisfied from it. Te main focus is to present out into the external a sort of structure and organization. I still fail to see how he was even a Ti user or an Fe user. And I have read multiple books on the man.


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## EonsInTheNight (Oct 26, 2014)

monemi said:


> ESTP aren't always 'full on.' Se-Ti. Our families can often think we're introverts because of introverted thinking. We go home and withdraw to a quiet place to think. Not all of us are extreme extroverts. Not all of us are happy go lucky people. We have feelings. We get hurt, we get depressed, we build up defense mechanisms just like everybody else. Your post presupposes we're caricatures instead of people. In which case, any ESTP that you get to know on a deeper level is going to appear to be an ISTP.


I don't see how my post caricatures ESTP in any way, I didn't even said that Hemingway wasn't ESTP, just that ISTP seemed a very real possibility. Actually, you're initial reasoning for Hemingway ESTP is more like a caricature. I do realize it wasn't said with full seriousity, but the point is that I never made caricatures out of ESTPs and I don't need do defend this is a any way since there wasn't any reason to believe this in the first place. 

No, an ESTP will not appear ISTP, at-least not in a social setting with lots of people, like in school, college, a club or any other gathering of people. Maybe if I would found what people who knew him said about how he was in a social setting, the response would be more clear.

Again, you claimed him ESTP based on a series of stereotypes and then said that I made a caricature out of ESTPs, which I found it quite perplexing.


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## monemi (Jun 24, 2013)

bobnickmad said:


> I don't see how my post caricatures ESTP in any way, I didn't even said that Hemingway wasn't ESTP, just that ISTP seemed a very real possibility. Actually, you're initial reasoning for Hemingway ESTP is more like a caricature. I do realize it wasn't said with full seriousity, but the point is that I never made caricatures out of ESTPs and I don't need do defend this is a any way since there wasn't any reason to believe this in the first place.
> 
> No, an ESTP will not appear ISTP, at-least not in a social setting with lots of people, like in school, college, a club or any other gathering of people. Maybe if I would found what people who knew him said about how he was in a social setting, the response would be more clear.
> 
> Again, you claimed him ESTP based on a series of stereotypes and then said that I made a caricature out of ESTPs, which I found it quite perplexing.


You pointed out parts of his personality that weren't stereotypically ESTP as though ESTP's are only the sum of our stereotypes and ruled out the possibility that he is an ESTP. If you're going to preclude Hemingway for not being 100% extroverted all the time you should as readily preclude him from being an ISTP for not being introverted all the time.


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## EonsInTheNight (Oct 26, 2014)

monemi said:


> You pointed out parts of his personality that weren't stereotypically ESTP as though ESTP's are only the sum of our stereotypes and ruled out the possibility that he is an ESTP. If you're going to preclude Hemingway for not being 100% extroverted all the time you should as readily preclude him from being an ISTP for not being introverted all the time.


I didn't ruled out the possibility that he is an ESTP. I just put forward arguments in favor of ISTP rather than ESTP, so as to compare this thesis with the thesis of someone claiming he's an ESTP. I didn't need to take both possibilities into account into my post, it doesn't mean I didn't considered both, just that I split the task between me and others. I always asked for reasons in favor of ESTP, to see which one has more ground.

From what he seems thus far based on his personality, it seems *xSxP *with *T* from his writing, so the question remains in my mind of E vs I. *SpasticOrigami* gave strong arguments in favor of *Se *dominant, but I'm not quite sure, because maybe he deliberately choose this style rather than being his primeval inclination, so behind the *Se*presentation there may lay an even stronger *Ti* technique. I don't ruled this possibility out, simply present another possible view of it.


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## monemi (Jun 24, 2013)

bobnickmad said:


> I didn't ruled out the possibility that he is an ESTP. I just put forward arguments in favor of ISTP rather than ESTP, so as to compare this thesis with the thesis of someone claiming he's an ESTP. I didn't need to take both possibilities into account into my post, it doesn't mean I didn't considered both, just that I split the task between me and others. I always asked for reasons in favor of ESTP, to see which one has more ground.
> 
> From what he seems thus far based on his personality, it seems *xSxP *with *T* from his writing, so the question remains in my mind of E vs I. *SpasticOrigami* gave strong arguments in favor of *Se *dominant, but I'm not quite sure, because maybe he deliberately choose this style rather than being his primeval inclination, so behind the *Se*presentation there may lay an even stronger *Ti* technique. I don't ruled this possibility out, simply present another possible view of it.


You mean you think he's intelligent so it's hard for you to accept he's a Se-dom.

http://personalityjunkie.com/estp/



> Their relationships are generally built around a breadth of shared activities (Se) rather than extensive, in-depth conversations. But since status and reputation are important to both their Se and Fe, ESTPs may be far more talkative at work or in public settings. In the public arena, they may quickly shift into “schmoozing mode.” This can differ dramatically from their private persona, where they can seem more independent and aloof. The ostensible disparity between their public and private personas may at times lead their intimates to consider them narcissistic or hypocritical.





> When ESTPs are compelled to make judgments a la their auxiliary Ti, they become more inwardly focused and intense, similar to the typical mode of operation for ISTPs. But because Ti is introverted in its direction, onlookers may fail to notice this more serious side of the ESTP.Ti involves the application of logic and reason for the sake of understanding a given situation, system, or problem. Ti also works to bring structure and order to the inner world. This inner structuring grants ESTPs a good sense of inner control. Inwardly, ESTPs are self-disciplined, working to independently manage their thoughts and objectives.


ESTP's that show intelligence are frequently presumed to be ISTP's.


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## EonsInTheNight (Oct 26, 2014)

monemi said:


> You mean you think he's intelligent so it's hard for you to accept he's a Se-dom.
> 
> ESTP Personality Profile
> 
> ESTP's that show intelligence are frequently presumed to be ISTP's.


Ok, I do get that ESTPs have negative stereotypes of being jocks in the MBTI community and it suck to deal with this kind of prejudice, but you're assuming that I'm doing the same. As I said before, my impression of ISTP was due to the believing the main character of "Farewell..." to be a self-insert. But then again, I remember "The Sun Also Rises" and the main character there is a society extrovert so it wasn't fair to assume that (no bock bored me as much with it's "we went to this restaurant, let's go to this one next and we ten more to go to", so I dropped reading it despite being quite short).

Another thing would be that he wrote that huge book "For Whom the Bell Tolls" and I couldn't see how an ESTP could have wrote such a book, not due to them being unintelligent, but because I can't see how an ESTP would have maintained such patience. I would have assumed he'd got bored with it long before it was finished and went to another task. 

As for ESTP intelligence, well I tend to associate ESTP with a very in-the-moment-intelligence, ability to quickly asses a situation and act with precision. I personally have a severe lack of this.


"Their relationships are generally built around a breadth of shared activities (Se) rather than extensive, in-depth conversations."
Unrelated, quite a spot-on observation.


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## EccentricSiren (Sep 3, 2013)

I really don't think Mozart was an I. He loved games and parties and was kind of a life of the party type of person.


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