# What does the Sp instinct REALLY mean?



## Quernus (Dec 8, 2011)

RainIsMyColour said:


> @*Quernus*, if I may ask, does your SP show in that being physically uncomfortable is highly distracting for you? Or is it something you can easily ignore in favour of something else?
> 
> Sorry if it's a stupid question, there are some things I'm still not clear about


Well... I am truly hypersensitive in that my brain is wired to be more easily distracted by certain kinds of sensory interference. My threshold for physical pain is very low. I try to explain it to people like... a wound that for most people [on average] registers as a three on a scale of 1-10, would for me feel like maybe a 5. 

But I'm probably not the best reference, as I don't believe this is related to enneagram for me.

For me, my SP instinct sort of manifests more in... the sense that 

1.) I'm hyper-vigilant regarding how my energy is spent during interactions or tasks. When I'm among other humans I am continually assessing how I relate to everything else

2.) I am heavily influenced by my inner world, thoughts, emotions, ongoing personal narrative, and what I need to do/not do in pursuit of things I feel like I am "missing" in an emotional sense.

3.) Needing to know more or less what sort of resources I'll have in the foreseeable future. I'm bad at planning things out but I like to make sure I have a basic idea or else I'll (ironically) start exercising poorer judgment and hastily making bigger sacrifices in order to be "settled" on a deeper level.



Also, a note on sensory issues/physical awareness:

Weirdly: while I am easily perturbed by certain textures, sensations, noises, I am also basically completely oblivious to my sensory/physical surroundings (as long as there's equilibrium in the areas that affect me). There are soooo many details I do not notice, I never know where I am, I'm really just ...uninterested in what's going on around me, lol. If I go to an art museum or something, I process the visual data very quickly and move from one piece to the next before anyone I'm there with, otherwise I'll get bored/distracted by my thoughts. 

By the end I'm drained as hell anyway (but it's worth it sometimes). Yet the art leaves a big impression on me and I can recall the ones I liked and how they made me feel, and think about them for a long time afterwards. I don't know if any of this is relevant.


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## Nephilibata (Jan 21, 2015)

Quernus said:


> Well... I am truly hypersensitive in that my brain is wired to be more easily distracted by certain kinds of sensory interference. My threshold for physical pain is very low. I try to explain it to people like... a wound that for most people [on average] registers as a three on a scale of 1-10, would for me feel like maybe a 5.
> 
> But I'm probably not the best reference, as I don't believe this is related to enneagram for me.
> 
> ...


I see! Yeah, I feel you there, I think I also am HSP, it would definitely explain a lot of sensory sensitivity issues I have. I also agree it has nothing to do with enneagram as it is biological.

Hmm...the points you've listed are definitely helpful to understanding how it differs for people. Not sure I can relate, but it's certainly interesting to see how you experience things 

I sort of relate to your third point, I like to know ahead of time what's going on...but I tend to wing stuff a lot of the time too, I'm pretty ok with that. I think it comes down to how we experience energy. I'm not high energy by any means, probably my core 9, but I don't think I watch my reserves....my energy is either there or not with little control or awareness, on my part.

I definitely get you with sensitivity to textures, especially noise and lights though. It's often more of a brief acknowledgement than an overbearing sensation with textures and lights, but I really am very sensitive to noise. Scaring me with sudden loud sounds is far too easy -.-'

Oh, ok! That does make sense in a way. I'm somewhat oblivious too but not because I'm uninterested in my surroundings, just because it's difficult to turn my head off.

Whether it's relevant or not, it's you and still interesting  Art isn't something I see regularly or am super interested in, save for certain epochs/eras, so I can't really relate too much...I think I do the opposite to you lol, it has to really interest me, but I'll just stand there analysing a painting, or more, the people in it. What they look like, what they might feel, who they might be...it's like sinking into the world created by the painting, only to move on to the next one and repeat the process. Not sure how long they'll stay in my mind...those that really gripped me, leave a bit of an impression, but most of the time, it's all dream-like in my memories, nebulous and vague.

Thanks so much! Your explanation and examples are really clearing up my understanding of this instinct


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## karmachameleon (Nov 1, 2015)

money, security.


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## Elscar (Jul 23, 2016)

@Sun Daeva are you Sp-dom? If so, may I ask how neurotic Sp plays out in you? 'Cause I have a pretty good grasp of what both neurotic Sx and So look like but not so much Sp.


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## Daeva (Apr 18, 2011)

Elscar said:


> @*Sun Daeva* are you Sp-dom? If so, may I ask how neurotic Sp plays out in you? 'Cause I have a pretty good grasp of what both neurotic Sx and So look like but not so much Sp.


My self-typing hasn't completely settled yet, though with typing at Sp/Sx 9 I really _am_ isolating my biggest struggles in life.

This is a post I wrote a while ago, it talks about my issues with anger somewhat, and it talks about my issues with holding back.




Sun Daeva said:


> I... hold back. I must've mentioned this countless times on this forum, but it truly is one of the biggest hurdles I wrestle with.
> 
> 
> I am constantly balancing a severe character with a need for "letting go." I so desperately wish I could let go. Just be. Nothing more, nothing less. But.I.Just.Can't.
> ...



Now, this will be different for Sp/So, as they still have the Social element feeding into their Self Pres. They won't be as walled up, or not in the same way at least.


It's a mixture of me being a 9 (ego type (withdrawing), acedia), me being Self Pres first (security oriented, grounding, walling up), and me being Social last (apathy about connecting with others).


I'll list a few things that come up for me that would be SP:

I am often moving about and fidgeting with my clothing and trying to find a good 'position' to sit etc, because I find myself not quite comfortable enough yet.
My issues around food are such that I will neglect it so much that I'll be on the verge of fainting, only to then over-eat as compensation for it. It's very hard for me to just eat 'normal'.
A large part of my focus lies on whether or not my energy levels are good enough for the next activity: Will I get depleted? Will I run out of energy? Better make sure I eat something before we go...
One of my biggest triggers is 'work': I feel as though it takes away too much time and energy from 'me', so I absolutely need this area to be perfect. As this is the so-called 'real world' we live in, this area is NOT perfect, and it drives me absolutely insane. Constant stress around this subject.
I really value being strong, thinking of myself as solid and hard-to-wear-down. A sentiment of toughness and roughness that gets strongly appreciated. Protection, aggression, durability. Indulgence of life and pleasures. Soaking up the world, feeling it fill you up. Engorging on the world, taking it for yourself, because I will live.


I love my @Animal to death. She is 'it' for me, the One. My heart, my soul. She is the reason I hopped continents so quickly. There was no hesitation.

"_I never loved anyone till I loved you_" - QOTSA
Which, to me, also means:
_I never felt home till I lived in you._
That's us. Her and me. She is my home, my nest. With her I can make myself truly comfortable. I finally feel home.


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## Elscar (Jul 23, 2016)

Sun Daeva said:


> My self-typing hasn't completely settled yet, though with typing at Sp/Sx 9 I really _am_ isolating my biggest struggles in life.
> 
> This is a post I wrote a while ago, it talks about my issues with anger somewhat, and it talks about my issues with holding back.
> 
> ...


Some of these things I really relate to; especially conserving one's energy and the feeling of needing to hold yourself back because if you just follow your Sx energy (maybe you didn't mean Sx specifically though) you fear that something terrible will happen that will threaten your Sp. At the same time, I wonder if Sx/Sps can feel that way too and generally use their Sp to keep a reign on their Sx.

Did you ever type as Sx-dom? If so, how did you come to realize that Sp is more prioritized in you? Maybe that's an obvious question since all you need is just enough self-awareness, but was there anything specific that made you get to that point and be able to really draw a line between Sp and Sx?



> I love my @Animal to death. She is 'it' for me, the One. My heart, my soul. She is the reason I hopped continents so quickly. There was no hesitation.
> 
> "_I never loved anyone till I loved you_" - QOTSA
> Which, to me, also means:
> ...


Reading this made me smile. It sounds so beautiful :')


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## Daeva (Apr 18, 2011)

Elscar said:


> Some of these things I really relate to; especially conserving one's energy and the feeling of needing to hold yourself back because if you just follow your Sx energy (maybe you didn't mean Sx specifically though) you fear that something terrible will happen that will threaten your Sp. At the same time, I wonder if Sx/Sps can feel that way too and generally use their Sp to keep a reign on their Sx.
> 
> Did you ever type as Sx-dom? If so, how did you come to realize that Sp is more prioritized in you? Maybe that's an obvious question since all you need is just enough self-awareness, but was there anything specific that made you get to that point and be able to really draw a line between Sp and Sx?


Yes I did actually! For the longest time I fancied myself a Sx dom, because I do strongly feel the drive to 'possess and be possessed' by someone (or something).
My life has been a chain of long lasting obsessions with certain individuals. Years of being emotionally pulled and rejecting myself so they wouldn't have to.

Say I'm at some party, my eyes will get drawn onto someone and this person will be the central focus of my thoughts for that night. I strongly feel the magnetic pull between us, even without a word being said - even from across the room.

I've always been someone to crave 'the Other'. The missing piece.

Now, even though I've been pulled so strongly by all this, I still never acted on it the way I wanted to. I'd dream of losing myself with the other person, but I could never.
My instinct (ahah!!  ) is to retreat, pull back, keep my composure, when faced with someone I am obsessed with. If there's even the slightest bit of hesitation within me, I won't go for it. I will feel the pull, and I'll say no. In fact, I'll tend to err on the side of saying 'no' too quickly, because I'll feel that I need to make sure of my own position, that what I feel is true and complete. I figure, if this connection truly is 'it', then it will be able to survive me distancing like this. If not, then that's just proof that it wasn't 'it' in the first place. (=> comfort with Sx, strong awareness of it, but I can push it back in order to make sure it's 'right' : Sx second)
I just CANNOT risk losing myself in the process, especially if there's a part of me that knows this isn't 'it'.
Though this has left me with plenty of regret about missed chances.

(With @*Animal* and I, our connection felt so strong it overruled all of my insecurities!! I didn't need time to think it over, I knew I was going for 'us' immediately, and I sank my hooks in real deep. But this is the only time this has happened for me. This isn't a theme in my life. The stars just happened to line up perfectly for us.)

I'm also very attracted to someone whose energy can 'break through' this wall of mine. It's a wall of protection from losing myself, but the wall's defenses are too.. tight. Too strong. Not enough comes through. I seek to be *vitalized* (Sp) and infused with another's life force! I _want_ to be torn open! Because I can't do it myself.



The Sx/Sp can't just say 'no' to acting on the attraction like I do. There will be a pattern of falling into the attraction completely, going with 'the pull' because it takes them over, only to then realize this isn't 'it' and that they've overextended themselves. But this realization will come later. The damage has already been done. Only then will they retreat, their Sp to the rescue.
They WILL lose themselves in these attractions. The awareness to preserve themselves isn't their first instinct, but it will try and mend the wounds in the aftermath. Like a phoenix; it burns itself up completely, leaving nothing behind but ashes. Only to then be reborn again. And again. And again.

Their instinct is to act on the Sx, to go all the way where the energies flow, neglecting to preserve their own energy. 



> Reading this made me smile. It sounds so beautiful :')


Thank you so much!


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

@Elscar

The way I've understood it is that you are generally insecure about your dom.
You are secure in your secondary and mostly ignore the last one.

For me as an Sx/Sp I almost never feel insecure about my Sp needs.
Not even in periods of extreme lack.
I always have this baseline assumption that it will turn out okay.
I will work towards it's resolution, but won't really panic unless it is a life threatening thing.
My Sx is much more insecure and will generally do all sorts of things to try to get satisfaction.
In fact if I feel Sp neglect my Sx is usually freak out over it meaning that X person is responsible,
and that it may mean that, that person doesn't like me anymore.
Maybe they stole my food and now I have to go hungry.
The Sx pang of potential interpersonal betrayal, 
will be much louder in my mind than the murmors of my hungry stomach.


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## Elscar (Jul 23, 2016)

@Sun Daeva

When I think of my Sx's (in isolation from the other instincts) deepest desire, there's an image that pops into my head of myself and another person being physically stuck together (especially our heads and chests/hearts), like siamese twins, and we're constantly exchanging information with one another about each other and living together as one entity. There is no filter between us but everything is out in the open for the other to see; no Sp boundaries that allow us to draw back into ourselves. It's like we're literally living _inside_ of each other.

If I were to incorporate the difference between Sp/Sx and Sx/Sp here, it would be seen in the text itself -- that Sp/Sx can desire that whole merging experience but not at the expense of them never being able make use of their Sp shield. So, I'm curious, is that something you can relate to as a Sp/Sx? I've been thinking that this might be a good way to detect Sp over Sx or vice versa, but what do you think?

Since you seem to have a good grasp of these things I hope you don't mind me asking another thing as well (under the cut)  


* *






There are times when I get extremely depressed if I feel a lack of a Sx connection in life and it's something that, when it happens, consumes me completely because I feel as though it's the only thing that matters; if I don't have it I might as well die. So, if I am, or feel, rejected in the Sx arena, in whichever way, it can lead to me becoming genuinely suicidal. I just get _so_ extreme with it.

For example, throughout my life I've been too insecure to have friends of the opposite sex simply out of an intense fear of them finding me unattractive. There have been other times when I've been out in public and have literally had to hide myself from people I find attractive because of the same issue. It's not that I think I'm _hideous_, I just think that there's no way anyone will ever want me unless I'm desirable enough for them -- and thus I won't be able to make any Sx connections.

One time some of my girlfriends and I went out to a nightclub and in comparison to two of my friends, I got little male attention. While my other friends who were in the same boat as me didn't seem to care, I did, _extremely_. It ruined my whole night and I ended up breaking down in tears simply because I felt too unattractive. It's as if nothing matters in life if I'm not able to attract guys (_wow_, does that sound stupid... but I can't help it).

Do you think a Sx-secondary could experience these things or are they more in line with Sx-dominance considering the neurosis around it?


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## Nephilibata (Jan 21, 2015)

@Elscar

sorry to butt in, I just wanted to say I really relate. Much if not all of my body image has to do with not feeling pretty/attractive enough to attract people, so even though appearance is more of an SP attribute, my motivation is solely SX.



Elscar said:


> * *
> 
> 
> 
> ...



* *




pretty much exactly this. I've felt, and still do, incredibly shallow for thinking like this, but it's like if I'm not attractive how is anyone interested?




I've also thought of an analogy regarding what it's like when looking for 'the one' - think of it as a compass. If you don't have anyone to 'merge' with or 'latch onto', the needle is wildly spinning, searching, with a sense of desparation you may be able to suppress for a while but ultimately will cause great anguish. Your value is determined by the love you attract and find but if you don't or can't, what are you worth?

But once you find that person, the needle comes to an abrupt stop, unwaveringly pointing toward north - the person you've locked onto. The needle attunes to them so completely that no matter where they go, it will point toward them. They're your north, and everything else is blocked out, and you might not even notice your neglect of other things until someone shows you or you notice yourself. But 'waking' from this is unpleasant and difficult, and the balancing of constantly going north without hesitation and stopping to appreciate other things along the way is even harder. You want to go north, to your anchor and centre, as fast as you can and stay - but it'll cost you.


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

Elscar said:


> Did you ever type as Sx-dom? If so, how did you come to realize that Sp is more prioritized in you? Maybe that's an obvious question since all you need is just enough self-awareness, but was there anything specific that made you get to that point and be able to really draw a line between Sp and Sx?


I'll answer this too because I also switched from sx first to sp/sx.

I typed as sx because first of all I'm obsessive, I'm a romantic, and I can get very obsessive over love interests, I also can get into conquering mode, romantically or otherwise.
And like...there are just many sx-y things, I also relate to many sx subtypes on top of sp ones, sp definitely wasn't the most obvious choice at first reading sp=caring about paying bills more than anything but now it's very obvious.

It's impossible for me to get lost in sx.
In fact, I TRY. I enhance my obsessions. I wanna be someone who can get lost in someone or something, to truly give their all, to the point that I'm proud when I manage to forget my personality or interests or feelings and get lost in someone. But I just can't, I don't need sp to control my sx, I need everything else to control my sp, sp is the out of control part. Sx is only a stress sometimes because I generally have insecurities and am not the most experienced person when it comes to life in general and in a way at some point I just got surprised by life, but it doesn't go as far as with sx firsts, it seems to be more in the realm of sp. Realizing that is what made me switch to sp and never look back. 
I noticed that many sx's and especially sp lasts here and irl tend to focus on sp more explicitly, like suddenly they realize they've been overextending themselves for years or decades and need to take a step back, or I assume sx/sp is more prone to just sudden withdrawal. It can't really happen to me in the same way, I constantly have a quiet "But what about me? uffer: " in the back of my mind that shows in every part of my life. I feel separate from everything that's not me in a way that I can't connect to any enneagram type, not even withdrawn ones, and I think it's sp. Like sx 9's or 5's are still...one with sx. I feel more 'me and my sx', like I'm pulling from my sx, if that makes sense.
I often especially when unhealthy seemingly overfocus on sx, another thing that made me feel sx first, but sp is still constantly on and sp is the one hurting me the most even though I'd prefer to be hurt by sx.
Actually I think the first time I truly tapped into my sx in a way that's closer to sx first was when I didn't feel like my sp was being satisfied, I felt like I had nothing, I couldn't survive for much longer, I needed to...get things, and I needed to not realize what I really needed. Before that I doubt I'd ever type as sx first even though I've always been a romantic.

Aside from that, I'm just very like...idk, like I always had weird relationship with food, but many people can probably relate to that. I'm very hedonistic in some ways especially when something is keeping me from what I want but I also always keep it small, but I'm incapable of just being normal with food, or money, food and money can't just sit there in peace when I'm around, I either hide them away and plan on what necessities I'll buy in 5 years or I feel the need to eat every cookie and own every single thing ever made.
I'm also careful about my energy, I'm either saving it or generously spending it but spending it is more like giving it in exchange for something (even if it's just a feeling and not anything material), but saving it comes much more naturally. 

I think instincts are difficult because the behaviors can vary a lot based on individual, like if you don't see paying bills as being crucial to your self preservation then you won't neurotically focus on paying bills even though you are sp first.
Or someone can be a so/sx 3 and seemingly focus on sp more than I do because successful people who associate with other successful people always pay their bills on time and don't eat at McDonald's, for example.

(Also doesn't help that I never had any bills to pay so who knows how much I'd focus on it)


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## karmachameleon (Nov 1, 2015)

@Amaranthine 
This is random but I remember your pictures and you definitely looked cat-like like an sp/sx.
Sometimes I get envious of sp/sx girls, they have a really attractive aura to me. argh.

Edit: just looked at your profile pic, yep definitely sp/sx.  what do you type as now besides instincts?


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

karmachameleon said:


> @Amaranthine
> This is random but I remember your pictures and you definitely looked cat-like like an sp/sx.
> Sometimes I get envious of sp/sx girls, they have a really attractive aura to me. argh.
> 
> Edit: just looked at your profile pic, yep definitely sp/sx.  what do you type as now besides instincts?


I type as ghost atm :ghost:
Got a bit overwhelmed by enneagram, so not really committing to any type right now but the last time I typed as something (like 2 weeks ago) it was 2w3-9w8-5w6.

Thanks for random picture typing and calling me cat-like :3
I can feel similar way about sx girls, feel like there's often this reversed instincts envy.


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## Daeva (Apr 18, 2011)

Elscar said:


> @*Sun Daeva*
> 
> When I think of my Sx's (in isolation from the other instincts) deepest desire, there's an image that pops into my head of myself and another person being physically stuck together (especially our heads and chests/hearts), like siamese twins, and we're constantly exchanging information with one another about each other and living together as one entity. There is no filter between us but everything is out in the open for the other to see; no Sp boundaries that allow us to draw back into ourselves. It's like we're literally living _inside_ of each other.
> 
> If I were to incorporate the difference between Sp/Sx and Sx/Sp here, it would be seen in the text itself -- that Sp/Sx can desire that whole merging experience but not at the expense of them never being able make use of their Sp shield. So, I'm curious, is that something you can relate to as a Sp/Sx? I've been thinking that this might be a good way to detect Sp over Sx or vice versa, but what do you think?


That's an interesting analogy you use there. It's how I imagine my Sx as well, like I said in a previous post:
"_I never loved anyone till I loved you" - QOTSA
Which, to me, also means:
I never felt home till I lived in you._

There's a lot of overlap between the Sp/Sx and the Sx/Sp in this regard. Both want to merge with the Other, and both have a strong nesting instinct.

One of the biggest differences would be that the Sx/Sp is the one *to infuse* the Other with their (sexual) being, whereas the Sp/Sx is the one *to be infused* by the Other.
Sx/Sp is the invader, Sp/Sx is the one welcoming being invaded.



So a clue in figuring out where you fall is to look at your life and see how things have tended to play out with your obsessions.



> Since you seem to have a good grasp of these things I hope you don't mind me asking another thing as well (under the cut)


Hehe, sure 



> * *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Feeling insecure about one's attraction isn't necessarily exclusive to Sx dom, though it's definitely a strong focus for them. It's why Sx dom's tend to overcompensate by almost being "too" desirable - not always by choice though. Intensely luring and drawing people out, attracting certain types of.. attention: usually because of their more charged persona and their more sexualized energy. They can't help it.

They can feel devastated about their own beauty, and feel as though others are only attracted to them for the unspoken promise of danger and sex, rather than those others being interested in them as a person.


Sp/Sx isn't immune to feeling immensely insecure about their levels of attraction, but their instinct isn't to immediately infuse their actions with the sexual undertone the way Sx/Sp's can't help but do.
Think of Sp/Sx as cat-like; they can have a strong magnetism of their own, but it all happens from a distance. "You can look, but don't touch." They tend to be read as more "statue-esque" by others.

It's a somewhat pristine, yet dark showing of the underbelly of their sexuality. Where the Sx/Sp is going to lure you in and 'sex you up' and drink the blood of the Other, the Sp/Sx will desire to expose themselves and show the Other their dirt and bloody scraps, as if they're selling something: they are selling their Sx for the Other to consume.


I'm not sure which of these would apply to you, but something that might help would be to try thinking of the critique (both good and bad) you've received most often in your life. It can often clue us in on how we exist in this world without us even realizing it, because we do 'we' and we're used to it - but others aren't.


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

Agree with @Sun Daeva 's post, was focusing more on pure sp aspects in my previous one but this I think is a good way to actually distinguish between sp/sx and sx/sp.
Will clarify later, gotta go celebrate Halloween now :witch:
(posting so I don't forget)


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## d e c a d e n t (Apr 21, 2013)

Not an Sx, but I prefer the thought of invading someone. :/


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## Daeva (Apr 18, 2011)

Distortions said:


> Not an Sx, but I prefer the thought of invading someone. :/


Sure, but is that what you *do*? I like the idea of invading and infusing someone else as well, and I'm sure that in some form I do, but it's not the theme of my life - even if I wish it were.

That's why I said before, somewhere in some post of mine, that one has to divorce values from the instincts. Yes, I like the thought of [x], but do I actually live that way, is this my instinctual way of being?


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## Animal (May 29, 2012)

Distortions said:


> Not an Sx, but I prefer the thought of invading someone. :/


 I am Sx/Sp... I want someone to infuse me, desperately. I crave to surrender and lose myself completely. 

What ended up happening in my past was, I would hone in on someone, feed on their energy, crave to merge and fuse. But in the process of hunting to consume every last molecule of their energy, I'd break them open so thoroughly that there would be nothing left of them. All they could dream of anymore was the inspiration and passion and extremes that came along with me. So they would be empty, and I would regenerate and move on to the next conquest. I cannot imagine myself ever saying that I *want* to infuse someone, as much as, I want to lose myself in him..... but yet, I have a long list of exes that weren't enough for me, that wrote albums about me and my claws and the hell within me, got tattoos of my shitty artwork, named their kids after my alter-egos and characters... and yet, I feel like they never knew ME. All they loved and desired was my passion, my intensity, the promise of danger like @*Sun Daeva* said... but my humanity was a non-entity. And that is not their fault, it's mine.. because what I instinctually put out is my sexual energy, my specific chemistry. I don't share my "friendly humanity" or my softness because that's not my instinct. Yet I feel like until I met my husband, I robbed myself of genuine closeness, because my needs and softer side could not break through the solid wall of hunger.


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## d e c a d e n t (Apr 21, 2013)

Sun Daeva said:


> Sure, but is that what you *do*? I like the idea of invading and infusing someone else as well, and I'm sure that in some form I do, but it's not the theme of my life - even if I wish it were.


Well, no. The theme of my life is to be rejected pretty much, and I'm not actually that rapey.

Now I wonder what the equivalent would be for SpSo or whatever.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

@Elscar

I always tend to look at the instincts in terms of survival strategies. Our survival instincts is a mixture of all three, but one always floats to the top, followed closely by a slightly weaker alternate strategy, then there's one strategy that is usually a "blind spot," where we have little, or no investment. 

In the case of Sp, the strategy is to build a solitary base of operations that is well-stocked and provides protection from the elements and potential invaders. This translates into the modern strategies of nesting, self-care, and financial security. 

In Sx, we see the importance of cultivating special relationships with a small circle of trusted individuals. We're either looking for a mate, or someone whom we can trust to get our back. This translates into a modern strategy of seeking out other intense, vibrant, vigilant people who are looking for those they can relate to on a one-to-one basis. 

In So, we see the idea of "strength in numbers," play out. Survival is assured if we band together, share resources, and combine our various skills, in order to prepare and prevent potential disasters. This translates into a desire for strong social ties, and a desire to know one's place in societal order, a feeling of belonging to something greater than self.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

tanstaafl28 said:


> @Elscar
> 
> I always tend to look at the instincts in terms of survival strategies. Our survival instincts is a mixture of all three, but one always floats to the top, followed closely by a slightly weaker alternate strategy, then there's one strategy that is usually a "blind spot," where we have little, or no investment.
> 
> ...


that isn't Sx. small group of trusted individuals is still social, just on a smaller scale that appeals to pretty much anyone who is an Intuitive, Introvert or Fi type. Sx is about intimacy related to sexuality, not intimacy in all forms. somewhat paradoxically, it is a type of social-driven behavior frequently manifested in Soc-lasts


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> that isn't Sx. small group of trusted individuals is still social, just on a smaller scale that appeals to pretty much anyone who is an Intuitive, Introvert or Fi type. Sx is about intimacy related to sexuality, not intimacy in all forms. somewhat paradoxically, it is a type of social-driven behavior frequently manifested in Soc-lasts


You are welcome to your interpretation. I did intend a 3 day training session on the instincts. Sexual is about intense one-to-one relationships. Intimacy can take many forms. One is the relationship between mates, another is having a BFF. The idea is one isn't looking at a social relationship of acquaintances, but an intense and close relationship with someone whose got your back, just as I said. It could be sexual, but it doesn't have to be. That's why _one-to-one_ is often substituted for _sexual_.


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## Elscar (Jul 23, 2016)

Amaranthine said:


> Agree with @Sun Daeva 's post, was focusing more on pure sp aspects in my previous one but this I think is a good way to actually distinguish between sp/sx and sx/sp.
> Will clarify later, gotta go celebrate Halloween now :witch:
> (posting so I don't forget)


Actually, I'd love to hear your input on that. I hope you're still planning on writing that post.


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

Elscar said:


> Actually, I'd love to hear your input on that. I hope you're still planning on writing that post.


I am planning on writing it but it's more difficult than I expected 
Especially separating it from other things that might influence it, for example I have a 9w8 fix and probably some other withdrawn influence that can be similar to sp, I can tell the difference internally but it gets confusing when I try to explain it.

I saw you wrote some posts about instincts in 8 forum, I'll read them, maybe it gives me some ideas.


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## mark anthony (Aug 20, 2011)

My way of sensing the Sp energy is by feeling the energy as being an adrenaline driven instinctual energy, I see Sp's as being front cortex driven people, adrenaline and cortex driven.

They take two basic shapes, feel sense Sp/Sx/So. They feel the other as the other senses and place a value related impression of that they the Sp impression within that the other is sensing.

The other basic shape think relate Sp/So/Sx. They think and construct a logos matrix impression of what they understand of the world that witch they can understand in order to relate correlate or co relate with another.

In away I see these two basic types utilising both the left and right brain operation in contrasting ways.

The Sp/Sx seems to utilise the left brain to form the impression the value they give to the left brain sensed impression gained of the others emotional presence.

The Sp/So seems to utilise the right brain to internalise a self constructed logos matrix utilised to relate via as a memory bank the left brain is utilised as like a lens to think though or via to gain the sharpest posable definition of what is taking place.


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## Elscar (Jul 23, 2016)

mark anthony said:


> My way of sensing the Sp energy is by feeling the energy as being an adrenaline driven instinctual energy, I see Sp's as being front cortex driven people, adrenaline front cortex driven.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


What..? Saying that Sp is adrenaline driven doesn't make any sense. If anything, Sp's energy comes across as more contained. Are you speaking of more hedonistic Sp-dom's? 'Cause otherwise, I don't get it.


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## mark anthony (Aug 20, 2011)

@Elscar

If you don't get it then sit back and observe the Sp energy. 

Try to sense feel it, and INFP Feel it at a visual gut level.

From this view point it really is so easy to see.

Via your gut try and witness the energy of all three instincts see if you can detect all three, adrenaline, dopamine, serotonin.

After some time you may begin to note how they overlap for example how in a way adrenalin can have three intensity expressions as if a negative So/Sp as if running slightly low and thirsting for more, a neutral as if immersed within and clearly viewing though via Sp/So, and a positive as if saturated or overstimulated by adrenaline having at times an over abundance. Metaphorically speaking.

Another way of viewing the use of all three adrenaline, dopamine, serotonin is via the two triangles at the instinctual level for all six instinctual variant's.

As an example points 7 4 1, the So/Sx So(feel)/Sx(think), the So/Sx draws from Point:1 SP energy its own adrenaline the So/Sx can gain a sharp edge to its temperament and from point:4 the So/Sx gains an other temperamental perspective because it is drawing from another energy, can you distinguish which of the two it is dopamine or serotonin? And Point:7 the core instinctual energy is it driven by or via dopamine or serotonin?

You can look at all six variant heads Sx/So, Sx/Sp, Sp/So, Sp/Sx, 
So/Sp, So/Sx.

The 5-8-2 triangle and the 4-7-1 triangle.

And then see how it over laps see how for example So/Sx acts when actively drawing upon its own inner So/Sp from point:8 instead of from point:7 its innate dominate So/Sx energy.


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## Elscar (Jul 23, 2016)

mark anthony said:


> @Elscar
> 
> If you don't get it then sit back and observe the Sp energy.
> 
> ...


What the hell, this is so ill-formed I could barely follow what you wrote. Or maybe it was just the fact that many of the points you made are so strange I found it hard to think you actually believe all of them. Still, it's not something I care to discuss. My point is that saying that Sp is adrenaline driven makes it sound like Sp-dom's have a ton of energy and are quite intense people who are always on the go. Not sure if that's what you mean but if it is, it's obviously inaccurate. Even saying that Sp automatically gives one more adrenaline doesn't make sense if you look at the very definition of it. Have you maybe scientifically proved that adrenaline, dopamine and serotonin are directly linked to the instincts? I think not.


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## mark anthony (Aug 20, 2011)

Elscar said:


> What the hell, this is so ill-formed I could barely follow what you wrote. Or maybe it was just the fact that many of the points you made are so strange I found it hard to think you actually believe all of them. Still, it's not something I care to discuss. My point is that saying that Sp is adrenaline driven makes it sound like Sp-dom's have a ton of energy and are quite intense people who are always on the go. Not sure if that's what you mean but if it is, it's obviously inaccurate. Even saying that Sp automatically gives one more adrenaline doesn't make sense if you look at the very definition of it. Have you maybe scientifically proved that adrenaline, dopamine and serotonin are directly linked to the instincts? I think not.


It's not my work, I did not do the science, the science was done by The Enneagram Institute.

Maybe you think that they are simply a pack of silly people who no not the enneagram or how to conduct scientific enquiry.

My self I simply think you most likely are a newbie to seeking to understand the workings of the nine energies.

Let me give you a little helping hand. Mind is best thought of as if it were a one dimensional fractal hosted by greater nature via a one part that has three states, meaning gravity bark matter and dark energy may one thing that operates simultaneously in three different states as ice water and steam.

Three into three seems to get things working but things that work as six parts is also an interesting. The Six Astroid between Mars and Jupiter, the six moons that make up Pluto. The six sided storm face the sits on the North Pole of Saturn. The six points that reflect the operations of the instinctual variants.

When you start to recognise how the three and the six weave together as one mechanism different patterns than normally are talked about via the enneagram of personality begin to become recognisable.

These patters suggest to me that there maybe a one dimensional fractal hosting minds logos between your fingers all three parts are present dark energy, dark matter, and gravity. You are moving thought beep space at the speed of light while standing on a planet that is moving like a cork screw with all other eight planets around the sun as it to moves at the speed of light though a never ending sea of two kinds of microwaves one type that was formed from the Big Bang and the other from the decay of Sun's and all created after the Big Bang.

One energy three states and two forms of microwaves and the ever present boson field. It kind of reminds me again of three into three.

@Elscar
Saturn's North Pole 








Pluto 
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QaDRQ_C5nlM
Astroid belts


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## mark anthony (Aug 20, 2011)

@Elscar in this example of an Sp you will witnesses clearly the regency generated via adrenaline within the mind set of the Sp.

The adrenaline works upon the front cortex generating a storm of activity So to say. I chose this individual as an example not because he has a bent partly driven from his personal medical plight but because much of what he has to shear is partly relevant to the complexities of the enneagram and in tern to you questioning of what really is Sp.

I particularly like it because he speaks of supper looping as a braid and as you may already know personality is a fractal consisting of a multiple structures. You may well note the striking similarity between instinctual emotions base pattern and the tetrahedron. Noting naturally that such a pattern must have six structural versions one for each instinctual variant head.

Because you most likely are a phycological spastic, the mechanism tetrahedron metaphorically denotes the static movement of play within the trance structure e.g. Sp/So Sp to So, Sp/So Sp to So/Sx, Sp/So Sp to Sx/Sp, Sp/So to Sp/Sx.

If you have the perspicacity to recognise that and you know your enneagram theory you will have also recognised the seven layers of the hart mussels may also correlate to the law of seven.











https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4Rx35q-zJRk


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## OrangeAppled (Jun 26, 2009)

It is hilarious to me how people come in here and describe the sp instinct and it sounds like the sp instinct _for their core type._ 
Phobic 6s talk about security and homeyness and 5s talk about stockpiling  

I think my instincts are very close. What I am sure of is a social blindspot. 

The sp instinct for a 4 is autonomy as a kind of masochism. It's independence to avoid the banality of needing, but also feeling you should be rewarded for this. It's a carelessness to assert a kind of eliteness (rules don't apply to you). But this frustrates the other instincts, as well as the basic 4 desires, hence the masochism.

Oh sure, I like luxury and indulgence - it's self-soothing veering on self-medicating.... But it's never about security or survival in any remotely literal way. Sometimes there is actually a wish to implode. I've read sp 4 descriptions note that they rehearse for death. I suppose that's inline with ideas about sp types conserving energy, but it's also kind of a death wish. It's like - how far can I push this? Will I get fired? Will I be outcast? Will I go into debt? Will I develop an addiction? Other people show up late and get fired. Other people defy the social dress code and are sneered at. Other people drink and spend and experience real consequences. But you get away with it or someone bails you out - because you aren't other people. 

The more BS you get away with, the more you see your significance (that you are quite special to be tolerated or to pull it off), but the self-loathing and self-sabotage are a big price. Other people are happy, functional, stable, connected - but you aren't other people.

As much as I idealize being totally connected and intoxicated in some mutually obsessive coupling, I have a fear of someone else's agenda smothering me. I'm afraid of abandoning my individual identity in order to achieve that connection. I often use this phrase that I don't want to be an "appendage" to another person or an "accessory" in their life. I need my own distinct identity still. I have competency and secrecy issues too - will I be able to deliver practically what is expected of a partner? Will me moodiness drive them to hate me? Will my ideal self not only be lost to fantasy but also exposed as a fraudulent identity anyway?

But being a 4 makes you kind of inherently sx-y ;P. The sx descriptions ring more true _in general_, but for my specific core type, the sp seems to dominate a bit more. I am not that competitive or jealous as sx fours are supposed to be.


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## Dangerose (Sep 30, 2014)

Ok kinda in line with the above but honestly just a question:

Can someone explain sp and 2 to me?

Most people seem to agree that I'm a sp 2 and it seems to fit better than the other instincts, but I _don't understand it_, not for myself and not for 2 generally except for, like, scoopiness

I get that it's the counter-type but it honestly just feels like a blatant contradiction, 2 is essentially other-focused in a way, I don't understand how anything associated with sp makes sense for sp

Also there seem to be about two hundred ideas about the self-preservation instinct in general and I can't reconcile them at all,

How are these the same at all?

1: basically Socionics Si, coziness, obsession with cute foods and things to drink, home decor and pastel colors










2: self-reliance, defeating the elements, not wearing coats, knowing how to strangle wild beasts










3: being a grown-up, living in the suburbs, paying bills and taxes and having conversations about the stock market










4: holding back emotionally and putting up barriers, not reaching out, having an imaginary glass box around you, shyness

[best picture I can come up with for this one is this one from this page http://the-toast.net/2016/03/28/oh-...en-leaving-tactfully-in-western-art-history/]









_i don’t know what you mean, Charles
that is the door _
well it looks a hell of a lot like a window to me
_darling i’m so sorry but if that won’t open i’m afraid there’s no other way to get inside_
i came an awfully long way to see you
_ahh i know it’s so terrible but
nothing i can do about how windows are made_
you could at least come outside to see me
_oh if only were that simple_
it is simple
come to the window
we can still talk to one another
_oh Charles
you’re so beautifully naïve_

5: a sort of gentleness/sensitivity about the self, self-protecting, desire to be idk coddled?









6: any kind of misty, 'horns of elfland faintly blowing' romanticism'









7: Specifically morbid romanticism and fixation on death [though I admit I only see it for sp 4]








What is the actual common thread between these things?


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## d e c a d e n t (Apr 21, 2013)

The Night's Queen said:


> Ok kinda in line with the above but honestly just a question:
> 
> Can someone explain sp and 2 to me?


It kind of is confusing. I do think it makes sense that Sp image types are described as the counter types, since image concerns does go with So and Sx more intuitively (focusing on attractiveness/desirability, comparing yourself to others, etc. Simplifying it, but you know), while Sp I see more as focusing on the self. Even in the case of 4, who is described as self-focused too, there's still an outer-focus in how they are different from others and such.



> 2: self-reliance, defeating the elements, not wearing coats, knowing how to strangle wild beasts


Also "not wearing coats" lmao. That's perfect.


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## Stellafera (Jan 19, 2015)

The common thread with the Sp descriptions is that they're all inward looking. The vibes are all contained, unlike So scattered vibes and Sx glowing laser-to-the-heart connection. "Self-protecting" sounds like a good one to me too since it seems contained in the other ideas about coziness and self-reliance and making money and paying your bills. 

Even then it's very difficult to separate one's own type from one's understanding of the instincts. Describing Sp as _protective_ is basically a tip-off to the fact that I'm a head center type since that's a primary concern for the triad. Best bet seems to be to take influence from lots of types' descriptions of the instinct to form the overall impression.


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## mark anthony (Aug 20, 2011)

You people are weird, it's all so simple. SP's are geared via adrenaline to be a wear. They instinctual know they are alive situated on the surface and have a need to survive. Develop maintain manage and evolve. It's about self preservation, one of three modalities needed to service,. On a planet as an organic hologram existing within an environment ruled by a fixed design that seems to be alive and self serving.

As an SP the question is what is your role in being of service to greater nature? It's not about really about matriculating for cool school and talking the fancy talk.


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## OrangeAppled (Jun 26, 2009)

@The Night's Queen
I think the "desire to be coddled" is very 2 sp, as is the photo you put with it. Average 2s give to get a lot.... so sp 2s coddle others or give the appearance of it (less healthy ones will just _tell_ themselves and others how much they gives - hence being image types), because they want to be coddled. They have too much pride to ask for it or even to admit it to themselves. But emotionally they may be adding up all they do and except a return when they need it. I notice they often do want comfy homes and cushy lifestyles, but instead of it being about security, it makes them feel loved (the way a child feels cared for when a parent provides their needs). I think they want to be spoiled a bit.

I like your romanticism picture... I think that is very sp + sx, as Romanticism is in general. There is this idea of surrendering to the natural elements, including emotions, and finding a wholeness or a fullness in the chaos of it. It's a paradox. Survival by surrender to a force, but it's not giving up, but becoming a part of it. I think that is very sp but with a strong sx bent.

I watched a vide by the fauvres and they sort of simply describe the sp instinct as being about taking care of the body to survive. All the instincts involve survival and security of a kind, but not physical like the sp type. So this how the sp instinct is associated with autonomy, health, and comfort. All of these themes stem from an instinct to preserve yourself physically.


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