# Does this sound like an unhealthy ESTJ?



## donnygg (Oct 2, 2013)

Hi all, I hope to get some help typing a co-worker. He's tested as all ExxJ types but was typed as ESTJ and ENTJ by the official test. My friends and I think he's more S but are unsure of his T/F and J/P because he shows traits of F and SP as well. I don't think he's a healthy individual though. Here are some information about him.

-Very generous with gifts and help but expect reciprocation and will use them against you in future if you offend him. e.g. "I've done x and y and z for you and given you a and b and c, how dare you say I suck at tennis!" (Yes, as trivial as that)
-Not a strict follower of rules and protocols and is rather good at improvising but he loves people to follow his rules closely. Hold double standards.
-Slapstick sense of humour. Very vulgar and loves to make X-rated jokes. E.g. telling girls "I'll sell you off as a prostitute for $10" and "You can go be a part-time prostitute"
-He loves to make up silly lyrics to songs on the fly.
-Has poor sense of appropriateness. He doesn't know when he makes people uncomfortable and claims people should tell him in the face that they don’t like it, yet he’s offended when people tells him off. E.g. he held a penknife (with blade in) to my neck as a "joke" and thinks nothing of it but is utterly offended when he disturbed a co-worker busy at work and was told to leave.
-Loves attracting attention and acting like a class clown. People think he can handle jokes but he can take things personally when teased, especially when it concerns his competency.
-He takes his responsibilities very seriously and is protective of people in his care, to the extent of martyrdom. He thinks he's protecting everyone while everyone is being ungrateful to him. E.g. "I'm like the clown giving out sweets and everyone is throwing stones at the clown."
-Extremely messy work desk but fastidious when cleaning his home
-He was in a debating team. Talks a lot and is very verbose in writing and presentation.
-Trolls sales ladies at shopping mall over unscientific claims that they make on the products that they sell.
-Reads between the lines when there's nothing there and gets offended by misintepreting people's innocuous remarks
-Strong sense of smell. He would tell me what each person's smell in the lab reminds him of. "He smells like a photocopier/sea sand/etc..."
-Loves to give pep talk.
-Four of his female subordinates in the past year have cried (possibly all FPs) under his supervision and he despised that.
-In his teens, he would feed ecstasy to mice to see how they would react. He and his friends would also drive by transvestite and heckle them.
-Kind of artistic. He used to act in plays and does really good impersonation. He does oil and acrylic painting too. 
-He cries when watching certain scenes movies that people wouldn't usually cry to.
-Does not pay attention to his appearance. A little unkempt with loud prints, kind of SP dress sense. ISTJ boss told him to dress up more appropriately (and he hates it). He gives an impression he's fooling around when presenting in group meetings, as if it's his own talk show. 
-Does extreme things, e.g. 5-shot expresso+caffeine pills, 7 cans of beer, marathons, night runs, long hikes, lifts excessive weights to see how far he can push himself.



Does ESTJ really fit? As I said, I don't think he's the most healthy individual. He seems to be emotionally unstable but very insensitive to others. Is he in an overdrive with his tertiary Ne and inferior Fi? I have considered ESFJ because he does gift a lot and eager to serve. However, I don't think he's using Fe because he has no sense of people's need and emotional state. Instead, he seems to be projecting his own interpretation on others. He's also not as conservative as SJs are portrayed. What do you guys think? Thanks!349


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## Jippa Jonken (Jul 20, 2015)

Why not ESTP?


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## MsBossyPants (Oct 5, 2011)

I think you can't type someone with the information you've given. Rather than giving some clear insight into his basic thought processes, it's more a laundry list of idiosyncratic behaviorisms. 

One thing I do agree with you on, though, is that based on his behavior, he isn't a very healthy individual. If you can, I'd recommend staying as far away from him as possible to avoid getting hit with any peripheral negative blowback.


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## stargazing grasshopper (Oct 25, 2013)

Based upon the limited description within the op, I'd guess the guy could be a psychotic ESTJ but more likely he's an Ne dom. 
It kinda appears he's somewhat a psychotic ENTP, but the edged weapon (penknife) behavior should be a huge red flag in any workplace environment & I'd guess it was an example of venting pent up rage.

If the description is for real, write a detailed letter to the corporate office outlining your concerns & thoroughly describe all the bizarre inappropriate behavior. I get the impression of a little guy, a mixture of Andrew Dice Clay & Joe Pesci strutting around his little minions.

Anyhow, I'd guess ENTP with a little man complex & a healthy dose of pent up rage.


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## donnygg (Oct 2, 2013)

stargazing grasshopper said:


> Based upon the limited description within the op, I'd guess the guy could be a psychotic ESTJ but more likely he's an Ne dom.
> It kinda appears he's somewhat a psychotic ENTP, but the edged weapon (penknife) behavior should be a huge red flag in any workplace environment & I'd guess it was an example of venting pent up rage.
> 
> If the description is for real, write a detailed letter to the corporate office outlining your concerns & thoroughly describe all the bizarre inappropriate behavior. I get the impression of a little guy, a mixture of Andrew Dice Clay & Joe Pesci strutting around his little minions.
> ...


First, I need to point out that the blade was not exposed during the "joke" with the penknife, although I still think it is totally inappropriate. 

Actually, ENTP was my guess when I met him for the very first time but it wasn't long before I realised his Ne is not that strong. I have a INTP friends who have stronger Ne than he does. For one, he recycles his jokes a lot. When we chat, it's mostly about him narrating on and on about his past experiences and me nodding and making a few remarks. So I would say his Si is stronger than his Ne. He has also never typed as P. Moreover, I don't think an ENTP will love to pile responsibilities onto himself the way he does. Not only does he take responsibilities seriously, he volunteers to take on more than he can, which is why I'm inclined to think he's an SJ type (as indicated by his official test results). 

He does have little man complex in the sense that he needs a lot of validation. It feels like he needs to emphasize the favours he's done for you and needs validation in return to feel a sense of worthiness. However, he's not a small guy physically. Quite the opposite, he's physically intimidating. He's also one of the more senior staff, so no one really wants to get on his bad side. However, about 20% of co-workers are already on his "ingrate list", mostly for perceived slights on his part that are totally unsubstantiated. He is very friendly and is great at networking but he is a difficult person to work with due to his volatile nature and unpredictable outbursts. It feels like walking on eggshells when around him. He justifies his crazy pranks and jokes by saying he teases because he cares and that's his way of communicating.



Jippa Jonken said:


> Why not ESTP?


That was my second guess after ENTP, given all the bizarre extreme stuff that he does. In fact, that was my guess for his type for a long time. Again, I wonder if an ESTP will pile on responsibilities the way that he does. 



MsBossyPants said:


> I think you can't type someone with the information you've given. Rather than giving some clear insight into his basic thought processes, it's more a laundry list of idiosyncratic behaviorisms.
> 
> One thing I do agree with you on, though, is that based on his behavior, he isn't a very healthy individual. If you can, I'd recommend staying as far away from him as possible to avoid getting hit with any peripheral negative blowback.


It does seem like a laundry list of idiosyncrasies, but these are types of traits he exhibits frequently in one way or another. I have opinions on what these behaviors infer but wouldn't want to influence the perceptions of anyone reading this.

We actually work in the same office. Let's just say I was one of those who had to pick up the mess he left behind after one of his emotional outburst.


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## Fire Away (Nov 29, 2013)

Sounds like a squirrel on crack.


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## stargazing grasshopper (Oct 25, 2013)

donnygg said:


> First, I need to point out that the blade was not exposed during the "joke" with the penknife, although I still think it is totally inappropriate.


That's still not much less cause for concern. 
Such unstable individuals don't often improve their behavior without seeking professional help.




donnygg said:


> Actually, ENTP was my guess when I met him for the very first time but it wasn't long before I realised his Ne is not that strong. I have a INTP friends who have stronger Ne than he does. For one, he recycles his jokes a lot. When we chat, it's mostly about him narrating on and on about his past experiences and me nodding and making a few remarks.


Once again I'll suggest that he's likely an ENTP suffering effects of a little man complex.
I'll suggest that he's likely also a braggart needing to constantly build himself up & that's why he recycles his crap oneliners.

Hey don't be too surprised if he's a very unhealthy ENTP 6 & he's been stuck within an Ne/Fe loop so long that he's become unaware how inappropriate his behavior.




donnygg said:


> So I would say his Si is stronger than his Ne. He has also never typed as P. Moreover, I don't think an ENTP will love to pile responsibilities onto himself the way he does. Not only does he take responsibilities seriously, he volunteers to take on more than he can, which is why I'm inclined to think he's an SJ type (as indicated by his official test results).


I wouldn't base too much upon the results of one MBTI test. I find it way too obvious what the questions are probing for & it shouldn't be too surprising that your supervisor might have manipulated the results based upon his answers given. It's seriously too obvious what the test questions are probing for, it's not at all difficult to imagine that an unhealthy Ne dom could easily answer those tests based upon their perception of the best answer. 



donnygg said:


> He does have little man complex in the sense that he needs a lot of validation. It feels like he needs to emphasize the favours he's done for you and needs validation in return to feel a sense of worthiness.
> However, he's not a small guy physically. Quite the opposite, he's physically intimidating. He's also one of the more senior staff, so no one really wants to get on his bad side.


The little man complex is expected, much of the bizarre behavior your op outlined kinda hinted that he's actually an insecure mental midget that utilized intimidation & division tactics as a means of manipulation to keep you subordinates under his thumb & fighting amongst yourself.
Hey I'm very likely ESTJ 1w9, you'd never know were I pissed off at you because I turn my anger inward upon myself. I seriously wonder whether Freud was bullied during his youth & took his revenge by describing ESTJs as monstrous creeps LOL nah just half kidding. 
You're soon going to cause me the vibe that you're another poor little abused stepchild of prejudice heart, assuming those which intimidate you must be ESTJs. Seriously, attempt leaving those horribly outdated stereotypes in the text books & stop assuming every asshole must be an ESTJ.
My best guess is that he's very likely a very unhealthy ENTP.




donnygg said:


> However, about 20% of co-workers are already on his "ingrate list", mostly for perceived slights on his part that are totally unsubstantiated. He is very friendly and is great at networking but he is a difficult person to work with due to his volatile nature and unpredictable outbursts.]/QUOTE]
> 
> Almost sounds kinda prone to paranoia, punishing subordinates for imagining they're plotting or intentionally screwing up LOL.
> 
> ...


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## donnygg (Oct 2, 2013)

stargazing grasshopper said:


> Hey don't be too surprised if he's a very unhealthy ENTP 6 & he's been stuck within an Ne/Fe loop so long that he's become unaware how inappropriate his behavior.


I've thought along a similar line that he's ESTP stuck in an Se/Fe loop. I can see him being a type 6.



> You're soon going to cause me the vibe that you're another poor little abused stepchild of prejudice heart, assuming those which intimidate you must be ESTJs. Seriously, attempt leaving those horribly outdated stereotypes in the text books & stop assuming every asshole must be an ESTJ.
> My best guess is that he's very likely a very unhealthy ENTP.


I have no idea how you came to the conclusion that I assume ESTJs to be assholes. If I did, I would simply be convinced and wouldn't have bothered posting to ask for opinions in the first place. If you read my last post carefully, ESTJ was not even my guess. It was the type that came out the most from his tests. ENTP was my first guess and ESTP was my guess for the longest time (probably need a disclaimer here that I don't mean to imply ESTPs and ENTPs are assholes). I do think he has some personality disorder.



> Grow a pair of balls, jokes & teasing are a two way street, maybe he'd respect you better were you to give it right back to him.


We do not really want to stoop that low. We tried telling him that we didn't appreciate his crappy jokes but he never got it. When he was doorslammed, he got butthurt that he wasn't appreciated for all his gifts and help. 

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