# are 9s the most controlling type?



## truittslo (Dec 2, 2011)

I had a teacher that taught this and was wandering what other nines thought about this. She also taught that nines are the most frustrating type to others. It made me mad but maybe I'm not"experienced enough"(according to her)


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## snail (Oct 13, 2008)

Nah, nines seem to be afraid of being in control. I think ones can be pretty frustrating to others, who tend to see us as self-righteous and overly perfectionistic/critical, but personally, I see eights as the most controlling, since their entire sense of identity is formed around a concept of dominance. I wouldn't know for sure, though, because I am no expert on the Enneagram system.


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## PlushWitch (Oct 28, 2010)

I don't think 9s are any more controlling than any other type. Every type has their own way of controlling others and situations in order to feel comfortable. 
But I could imagine that she was talking about how 9s can keep the whole athmosphere extremely low-key - which is also why 9 might be frustrating to others denying and not allowing stress or anger or problems... My husband is a 9... xD

EDIT: But imo her viewpoint is just a bit subjective...


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## madhatter (May 30, 2010)

I know I frustrate my 6 brother with my indecisiveness, and everyone with my stubbornness. I wouldn't say that 9s are the most controlling types, but we may be the most resistant to control. Check out this thread in the type 9 thread that I think is related to this.


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## Coburn (Sep 3, 2010)

Not from what I've seen/read. I've found ones and sixes to me more controlling in general.


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## Wake (Aug 31, 2009)

9's are likely to detest their anger and not release it in an effective manner to be controlling if they show it at all. I would say they're the most likely to withdraw and forget problems than take control.


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## Coburn (Sep 3, 2010)

Wake said:


> 9's are likely to detest their anger and not release it in an effective manner to be controlling if they show it at all. I would say they're the most likely to withdraw and forget problems than take control.


On a total side note, are nines more likely to let things build, and then suddenly explode when everyone least expects it?


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

most controlling: 1s, 2s and 8s sometimes 6s and 3s
least controlling: 4s, 5s, 7s and 9s


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## madhatter (May 30, 2010)

JuliaRhys said:


> On a total side note, are nines more likely to let things build, and then suddenly explode when everyone least expects it?


Definitely.


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## Wake (Aug 31, 2009)

JuliaRhys said:


> On a total side note, are nines more likely to let things build, and then suddenly explode when everyone least expects it?


I'm sure it depends too heavily on the individual and the situation. I'm sure they will rethink it enough to make it come out as awkward as other types may react immediately. Having been around 9's long enough (having spend 20+ years with two of them) I am confident that it must build in such a way that they feel at peace with releasing it. I've seen withdrawal so... so many times more than bursts of anger.


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## Coburn (Sep 3, 2010)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> most controlling: 1s, 2s and 8s sometimes 6s and 3s
> least controlling: 4s, 5s, 7s and 9s


Hmmmm...I dunno. I think it depends on the method of control. I would think fours would be much more emotionally manipulative and controlling than say an eight.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

JuliaRhys said:


> Hmmmm...I dunno. I think it depends on the method of control. I would think fours would be much more emotionally manipulative and controlling than say an eight.


true, same with 2s (grrr 2s! lol)


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## MBTI Enthusiast (Jan 29, 2011)

9's? Controlling? I don't think so. I can see how we might be frustrating though with our tendencies to be stubborn and to withdraw from problems.

This might help, as it discusses how each type tends to manipulate others:



> *What Each Type Looks for in a Relationship—and What Interferes*
> 
> *Type One*
> 
> ...


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## birchentree (Aug 20, 2011)

I’m a 9w1. Not totally versed in enneagram, but here’s what I’ve found about myself. I don’t like controlling other people, or even the idea of it. I’m not aggressive or pushy at all. Also, I tend to shy away from being in positions of leadership.
Though, if I do discover some amazing life-changing jewel of information…I immediately want to share it with the people I love. Now that I know what I know, I immediately see particular people in my life who could benefit from it. It’s frustrating. I see the need, and I try to tell people about it, but I’m so self-conscious that I will sound sales-pitch-y (and I myself hate being “sold” on something). I try to be more casual in my approach, but get irritated if the other person shrugs it off. I don’t want to control, but at the least I want to influence.
I sometimes have issues with giving up control. If something is important to me, whether it’s a direction in a project that I’m working on or a viewpoint that I hold, I can be stubborn and dig in my heels. It usually never gets to the point where I’m in anyone’s face about it. Former roommates have pushed me to the edge, though…like @JuliaRhys mentioned, it builds up inside until it explodes. Rare, though. Mostly I internalize things.


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## truittslo (Dec 2, 2011)

After this teacher of mine complained to me that she wished the 9's would talk to her (because there was an exodus of nines in the class without explanation) I decided to be direct with her and tell her some things she might have said that could have been upsetting to nines. She exploded at me (she is type 8). She interrupted me and would not let me speak, and dismissed everything I tried to tell her. This made me angrier than the original statements she made and made me realize that I do not want to be friends with such a person. I know she will see this as controlling, and I think it is, but sometimes control is not a bad thing. I agree with JuliaRhys that we all control in different ways. None more than the other. I think that the nine is the least controlling DIRECTLY and that we should actually control directly more. Then she repeats back to me that I think I am not controlling at all. GRRRRRR. Then I realize no matter how many times I try to clarify she is not really listening. But of course now I must look like the "typical nine" and "cut her out". I can not be friends with someone like this and I think I have that right. Nor would I be taught by them. Why should I be in a one sided relationship like this? I don't see that as beneficial to me and I will have merged to much if I did such a thing. I am married to an 8 by the way and he is a very good listener and demonstrates true strength by listening to others. He is truly empowering to others by doing this. He does not want me to have further contact with her. Do ya'll think that is the right thing?


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## Wake (Aug 31, 2009)

truittslo said:


> After this teacher of mine complained to me that she wished the 9's would talk to her (because there was an exodus of nines in the class without explanation) I decided to be direct with her and tell her some things she might have said that could have been upsetting to nines. She exploded at me (she is type 8). She interrupted me and would not let me speak, and dismissed everything I tried to tell her. This made me angrier than the original statements she made and made me realize that I do not want to be friends with such a person. I know she will see this as controlling, and I think it is, but sometimes control is not a bad thing. I agree with JuliaRhys that we all control in different ways. None more than the other. I think that the nine is the least controlling DIRECTLY and that we should actually control directly more. Then she repeats back to me that I think I am not controlling at all. GRRRRRR. Then I realize no matter how many times I try to clarify she is not really listening. But of course now I must look like the "typical nine" and "cut her out". I can not be friends with someone like this and I think I have that right. Nor would I be taught by them. Why should I be in a one sided relationship like this? I don't see that as beneficial to me and I will have merged to much if I did such a thing. I am married to an 8 by the way and he is a very good listener and demonstrates true strength by listening to others. He is truly empowering to others by doing this. He does not want me to have further contact with her. Do ya'll think that is the right thing?


Bad characters create problems in your life. I don't even give making such distance a second thought. Ya, you did the right thing, IMO.


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## MBTI Enthusiast (Jan 29, 2011)

truittslo said:


> After this teacher of mine complained to me that she wished the 9's would talk to her (because there was an exodus of nines in the class without explanation) I decided to be direct with her and tell her some things she might have said that could have been upsetting to nines. She exploded at me (she is type 8). She interrupted me and would not let me speak, and dismissed everything I tried to tell her. This made me angrier than the original statements she made and made me realize that I do not want to be friends with such a person. I know she will see this as controlling, and I think it is, but sometimes control is not a bad thing. I agree with JuliaRhys that we all control in different ways. None more than the other. I think that the nine is the least controlling DIRECTLY and that we should actually control directly more. Then she repeats back to me that I think I am not controlling at all. GRRRRRR. Then I realize no matter how many times I try to clarify she is not really listening. But of course now I must look like the "typical nine" and "cut her out". I can not be friends with someone like this and I think I have that right. Nor would I be taught by them. Why should I be in a one sided relationship like this? I don't see that as beneficial to me and I will have merged to much if I did such a thing. I am married to an 8 by the way and he is a very good listener and demonstrates true strength by listening to others. He is truly empowering to others by doing this. He does not want me to have further contact with her. Do ya'll think that is the right thing?


That's really scary that people like that are teaching enneagram classes. I know there are biases, but that's just totally misconstrued. I don't think there is any reason you should put up with a person who makes you feel consistently badly, let alone tears down your self-image!


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## truittslo (Dec 2, 2011)

Yes, Birchentree, I relate. I have helped many of my friends with nuggets of truth I discovered from the enneagram. It felt so good to feel I made an "important" contribution to them. Luckily, my really close friends listen and value what I say. I struggle with not wanting to even appear pushy or like I am telling people what to do. But like you it feels so good to have "influence".


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## truittslo (Dec 2, 2011)

Yes, enthusiast, thank you for the list....This teacher would say that the passive aggressive tactics are the "most controlling". which is why I tried to be direct with her. I did the opposite of our standard manipulation tactics by entering the conflict, acknowledging the problem, and being direct. I thought this is what she wanted. But apparently she only likes to be on the giving end of direct honesty.


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## truittslo (Dec 2, 2011)

I know, enthusiast-of all the types, nines need to be built up not torn down!!!


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## truittslo (Dec 2, 2011)

I think she must resent how the type descriptions usually make eights about control. But I think we are all controlling. Who wants to be out of control? Noone. I wish we could distinguish between good and bad methods of controlling for each type. Or maybe just overused methods of control. Like I see that withdrawing and passive aggression is the "overused or bad control" that nines engage in. I think they should be more direct and it would be "good control". Of course there is a balance and its tricky. But generally eights should probably ease off the "direct control" maybe by letting others finish statements and whatnot.LOL


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## truittslo (Dec 2, 2011)

Madhatter, thanks for the thread....very interesting. I can see how this is exactly our problem -the nonconformist in us also wants peace. And if we outwardly conform, inwardly we are rebelling and feel unsatisfied. Its hard to have peace and nonconformity, but that is our ultimate desire...to be accepted in a group though we express our differences openly maybe. This is why we are in such turmoil... we tend to get one or the other.....but both is our true desire.


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## truittslo (Dec 2, 2011)

another maddening statement she made was "nobody has trouble with self preservation sixes". What??????


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## wayupnorth (Feb 14, 2009)

Depends on what you think is control... 
To keep things peaceful, I like it all to be in control or I get overwhelmed and anxious and moody. And then I ignore the situation completely once it is at the chaos point.

My definition of control means I need to understand the situation I am getting into. Need to have a general plan and strategy. Need to have everything prepared and need to not have a bazillion things going on at once (I can handle a million but not a bazillion). I have to have a clear-cut plan for handling each of the bazillion things. If I don't, they get ignored and I hope they will just go away.

I absolutely despise controlling people, micromanaging, or being the leader. Although I can do the latter well when I have to because I like to control situations. I struggle with asserting myself and my needs, and my sense of control has very little to do with them.

I think I am a 9w1 7w8 4w5 so/sx but just started looking at this. Also an ENFP...


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## soya (Jun 29, 2010)

Nines might be the kind to sometimes manipulate or persuade others in passive-aggressive ways, but I don't think nines tend to be very controlling overall. Control seems to be scary to anyone who realizes the stress involved in leadership...


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

OP, that ignorant unprofessional tool shouldn't be teaching Enneagram classes. Of course, you did the right thing.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

snail said:


> Nah, nines seem to be afraid of being in control. I think ones can be pretty frustrating to others, who tend to see us as self-righteous and overly perfectionistic/critical, but personally, I see eights as the most controlling, since their entire sense of identity is formed around a concept of dominance. I wouldn't know for sure, though, because I am no expert on the Enneagram system.


1s can be just as controlling as 8s, they just think they it's justified when they partake in it. in fact, I think they are more controlling because a 1 will often try to tell people exactly what to do, exactly how to feel and exactly how to think on the pretense of "morality". an unhealthy 8 on the other hand generally will not care about the details as long as they are the master and you the slave. 
both types become more severe as they digress through the levels. 1s become more merciless and misanthropic; 8s begin to think more and more "the world is a kill or be killed place and is not moral, so why should I be?"


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## Tyche (May 12, 2011)

truittslo said:


> After this teacher of mine complained to me that she wished the 9's would talk to her (because there was an exodus of nines in the class without explanation) I decided to be direct with her and tell her some things she might have said that could have been upsetting to nines. She exploded at me (she is type 8). She interrupted me and would not let me speak, and dismissed everything I tried to tell her. This made me angrier than the original statements she made and made me realize that I do not want to be friends with such a person. I know she will see this as controlling, and I think it is, but sometimes control is not a bad thing. I agree with JuliaRhys that we all control in different ways. None more than the other. I think that the nine is the least controlling DIRECTLY and that we should actually control directly more. Then she repeats back to me that I think I am not controlling at all. GRRRRRR. Then I realize no matter how many times I try to clarify she is not really listening. But of course now I must look like the "typical nine" and "cut her out". I can not be friends with someone like this and I think I have that right. Nor would I be taught by them. Why should I be in a one sided relationship like this? I don't see that as beneficial to me and I will have merged to much if I did such a thing. I am married to an 8 by the way and he is a very good listener and demonstrates true strength by listening to others. He is truly empowering to others by doing this. He does not want me to have further contact with her. Do ya'll think that is the right thing?


She sounds like a bitch. I would go talk to her boss about it. Though calling her out as a typist will obviously cause some conflict, however the other option of cutting her out will only reenforce her very wrong opinion about 9's. Personally, I'd probably revert to calling her out in front of the class and using my nine-ish calm to look sane while she blows up with her ridiculous opinions. Then calmly explain why she is dead wrong. I would probably continue to politely bait her until she completely loses her shit and says something she shouldn't, then I would take that to her boss. A teacher is in a trusted position to teach you about the subject _without_ bias.


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## angularvelocity (Jun 15, 2009)

I agree with most of the people here, 9s tend to not be controlling. I HATE controlling and I hate telling people what to do. I believe I should do what I want and other's should do what they want to. 

There are times of course when people need to be directed but it's not an often thing. I have a mimicking personality so when I am coupled with a controlling individual, I will act controlling back to them while becoming stubborn and rebellious to their commands. To me, controlling is a sign of disrespect. Be amicable and receive it as well is my general rule of thumb.

I've had a few interactions with controlling people and they usually don't end well. 8s strike me as the most controlling. Things HAVE to go their way or else they cut you off. It's a pressure I don't feel like dealing with.


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## SilentScream (Mar 31, 2011)

truittslo said:


> I had a teacher that taught this and was wandering what other nines thought about this. She also taught that nines are the most frustrating type to others. It made me mad but maybe I'm not"experienced enough"(according to her)


Sounds like someone who's ignorant about the subject she's teaching. 9w8s can be passively controlling but can also keep it in check because the need to stay away from potential conflict tempers the need to control others. I'd rather not be controlled and be left alone to my own devices rather than control others. Doesnt compute for me ... nor does it make any sense as to why I even want to control someone else.


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## Dark Romantic (Dec 27, 2011)

I'd think that an unhealthy 2 would be the most controlling type.


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## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

> most controlling: 1s, 2s and 8s sometimes 6s and 3s
> least controlling: 4s, 5s, 7s and 9s


I see truth in this, because my twin is a 5w6 and was always much bossier and more controlling than I was, and I'm a 5w4 (she tends to introduce me to people before I have a chance to do it myself, for instance).


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## Malovane (Jul 12, 2010)

Answering as a 9w8, I don't believe so. 

I may be exceedingly resistant to control, but I have little desire to control anyone, except myself. There have been times where I have assumed pretty dominant roles in relationships, but the attitude has always been "if you don't want to be here, then go" - or, "go away and stop wasting my time". 9 apathy meets 8 self sufficiency. "I'll find someone better to deal with." It takes a bit to get to that point, and until then I'm very receptive.

This does change if I'm in a long term or deep relationship, where I'm invested. If they're being very negative over long periods, have constant mood swings, or are engaging in unhealthy behavior - then yes, I may have to have a firm talk. These can be difficult to do, especially if I have let the situation drain my will. However, if I do have my wits about me - it will come out as tough love, and very reasoned. I can't say that I don't feel better after these moments. It's healthy behavior.


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## Sonny (Oct 14, 2008)

I'm controlling over myself, not others. With others the word "lax" is truest.


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## graceelaine (Feb 3, 2012)

that's really odd. Nines are the ones who are the epitome of go with the flow. They are usually adverse to taking control.


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## LotusBlossom (Apr 2, 2011)

Nines are proabbly the least controlling type, but I can totally believe the 'frustrating to others'


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## Surreal Snake (Nov 17, 2009)

I rarely have seen any control in nines.I usually get along very well with them..


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## dollybones_90 (Jan 22, 2012)

I'd say nine's are one of the least controlling types, but I can see how certain types could find them controlling in certain situations due to their extreme conflict avoidance and tendency to be passive aggressive. I guess they could be controlling in a subtle way. I think 1s, 8s, and some 6s are controlling in the most obvious ways.


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## spiderfrommars (Feb 22, 2012)

Controlling? No way.

I've heard it said that 9s are the most stubborn, and I believe this is true. They're types others might often try to take advantage of, and they are driven by anger, even though they are out of touch with it. Stubbornness is a way that anger can manifest. I also believe "frustrating to others," because their lack of opinion can look like passive aggression. I think every type is frustrating to others, though!

It sounds like this teacher had some personal issues with 9s.

Most controlling type, depends on your exact definition. 8 is most domineering, but will probably forget you when you're not in their line of sight (I am a SP 8, maybe this doesn't apply to other variants?), 1 is most likely to correct you and try to get you to do it "right" which is a very strong form of control. So, from that comment, controlling others does seem somehow related to gut. Hmm.


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## Grac3 (Dec 14, 2011)

truittslo said:


> I had a teacher that taught this and was wandering what other nines thought about this. She also taught that nines are the most frustrating type to others. It made me mad but maybe I'm not"experienced enough"(according to her)


Nines are typically known for being one of the most, if not, the most laid back type. Being more calm, objective, and passive are some of the defining characteristics for their type. So I don't know where your teacher was getting that information, as far as them being controlling. Unless, maybe she came across someone who she thought was a nine, but was really an eight with a nine wing? I don't know. I see 1s, 3s and 8s as more of the controlling types.


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## truittslo (Dec 2, 2011)

Thanks everyone for all your help. What do you all think about the concept of separating the person from the opinion- agreeing to disagree i mean.I mean is there any way to keep this person as a "friend"? I can't seem to come to the other side of "acceptance" though we disagree- I don't know why I can't do this here- isn't this supposed to be what we nines are good at? Acceptance of others who differ from us? It seems this would be more accommodating rather than acceptancing to remain"friends"- thoughts?


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## Sonny (Oct 14, 2008)

truittslo said:


> What do you all think about the concept of separating the person from the opinion- agreeing to disagree i mean.I mean is there any way to keep this person as a "friend"? I can't seem to come to the other side of "acceptance" though we disagree- I don't know why I can't do this here- isn't this supposed to be what we nines are good at? Acceptance of others who differ from us? It seems this would be more accommodating rather than acceptancing to remain"friends"- thoughts?


Depends on the disagreement and if accepting will keep the peace or simply give the illusion of peace.

It's not generally something I struggle with as I find separating the person and the opinion easy but in situations where the opinion is offensive to me I would chose not to remain close, without making a big deal about it.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Okay:

ISxJ 9w1 - He and I discussed him possibly being a 1w9 because of his need for external and critical control. He's such a stereotypical Si dom it's not even funny, he even likes to clean the house ...there's everyone else's clean, and his clean. We used to joke "ISFJ knows best"...meaning _him. _He revealed to me early on that he took pride in controlling himself by being quiet or stubbornly "peaceful" while other people were experiencing anger or other strong feelings...and clearly upsetting upset people by keeping this quiet control. If he's not a control freak, I don't know what is. 

ESFJ 9w8 - My sister, my sister, subtly manipulating the entire family to orchestrate things she wants them to be. Refereeing. Mediating. Gently nagging (when no one asked for her goddamn opinion). Saying she wants to take care of mom when she's old. Priding herself on not losing her temper like the many xxFP women in my family, and letting her anger leak out through her fucking nagging. My mom even told me once she'd take my outbursts of rage over my ESFJ sisters' "nyah nyah nyah" any day. So...yes. Controlling. In control of my entire family. But don't get me wrong, I love her for it. I actually thought she was an ENFJ for the longest time until she typed herself, having an Ni "vision" for our family and having Se to do "boy" things like carpentry, working on cars, and fixing the plumbing. But no. And I appreciate the way she holds our family together. When I had a miscarriage she never left my side and slept in the hospital. Yes, controlling, though. Very. Quietly. Subtly. Pulling puppet strings. Sometimes I do have to get away from her or tell her to eff off.

ISTP 9w8 - Has been very dominant with me in our overall relationship, like isn't overtly controlling in any particular way with anyone, you'd never see it on the surface, but he has that 9w8 "referee" thing going on like my ESFJ sister like, "you people stop your shit." He just doesn't have her finesse about it, and he doesn't nag. He just suddenly stands up like "okay, NO" or like pulls me aside and tells me like it is. I attribute it to his 8 wing, though, with him having a natural inner instinct to lead or confidently dominate. He doesn't strike me as being as openly controlling as the two SJs I mentioned. But he does take control.

I wouldn't say 9s are THE most controlling, but I think I'd say you have to watch them for sneaky control more than other types, which you might see as more openly controlling. Like a 1, 2, 3, 8, or maybe even a 6 might seem more controlling on the surface. But the 9 is controlling you quietly. Always. 

I've also seen some 9w1 "butt-in-skis" on the Internet who try to mediate other people's conversations, like "everybody play nice now" and yeah that can seem controlling, like hey you're not even a moderator but you're telling us to shut up or do this or that? Go away! LOL.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Wake said:


> 9's are likely to detest their anger and not release it in an effective manner to be controlling if they show it at all. I would say they're the most likely to withdraw and forget problems than take control.


Withdraw is a form of control, if it frustrates people who are interacting with you, or if it creates the desired effect. Arguing for peace at any price is also a form of control.

What may actually be controlling about 9s, though, is their 1 or 8 wing. I think 9w8 probably appear more dominant or leader-like, but the 9w1 needs a kind of self-control and personal control (which could lead to control of intimates - like family members, close friends, and loved ones...in certain types). Like quiet, "behind-the-scenes" control.

That's what I mean by sneaky control.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Okay, again, I want to state as I did two posts ago, that 9s are not THE most controlling, but that people should be *aware* of 9-ish control.

I've been very close 9s - I actually really like them, apparently - and because of the way that I am, I do see their insistence on peace or denial as a passive-aggressive form of control. I'm also not using the word "control" in the sense many people are probably thinking, of someone being openly domineering or bossy. Control isn't about necessarily being openly bossy. 

Look here:

*9w8* - acquiring power, calm and peacefulness, control / intimidation *9w1 *- acquiring power + attracting love, calm and peacefulness, perfectionism

*Both 9 types want to acquire power, and the 9w8 has control/intimidation as a secondary characteristic.

*I think I'm used to 9s (like many in this thread) denying their need for control especially because of my sister. My sister does withdrawal, she does run off sometimes, she does flee conflict, she does try her best to not take sides, she does mediate others, she does pride herself on not becoming openly angry...but the simple truth is that, yes, she does quietly control my family, and she's always making these "suggestions" that feel like "orchestration." It can be very irritating to people who express anger openly to have someone essentially tell them NOT TO. Yes, that's being controlling. "Don't fight with each other" is a form of taking control. 

6, 7, 8 and 9 ALL want power.


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## Wake (Aug 31, 2009)

fourtines said:


> Withdraw is a form of control, if it frustrates people who are interacting with you, or if it creates the desired effect. Arguing for peace at any price is also a form of control.
> 
> What may actually be controlling about 9s, though, is their 1 or 8 wing. I think 9w8 probably appear more dominant or leader-like, but the 9w1 needs a kind of self-control and personal control (which could lead to control of intimates - like family members, close friends, and loved ones...in certain types). Like quiet, "behind-the-scenes" control.
> 
> That's what I mean by sneaky control.


This was a thread about the MOST controlling type, not a somewhat controlling from a certain angle. I would say a 6 is certainly more controlling than a 9 because of their relationship with anxiety and the reaction it creates, and they aren't even the most controlling. A 1 will normally believe that there is a great deal wrong with how you probably interact and become a vocal advocate of change. That's two types right there which are more controlling. I think 2 is probably the best at controlling though because they're in touch and close to you when they push you, so their opinion means more than a more reserved parent.

The 9 goal is for inner peace, and only reluctantly forcing change on their environment. That is the best answer to the question, and why they do not compare to other types in this area. They can be the best leaders though, like Phil Jackson who is the best NBA coach of all time.


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## Sonny (Oct 14, 2008)

fourtines said:


> I've also seen some 9w1 "butt-in-skis" on the Internet who try to mediate other people's conversations, like "everybody play nice now" and yeah that can seem controlling, like hey you're not even a moderator but you're telling us to shut up or do this or that? Go away! LOL.


I've seen that too, unprompted and unwelcomed... _awkward._

Yeah it's excessive at the least. It tends to amaze me how unaware some people can be of how unwelcome their buttinskis are when they do that.

Kay, play nice now fourtines *glares at controllingly* :wink:



fourtines said:


> Withdraw is a form of control, if it frustrates people who are interacting with you, or if it creates the desired effect. Arguing for peace at any price is also a form of control.


Arguing for peace is attempting to control the environment, yes, but withdrawal may not have anything to do with others so I don't accept that it's a form of control as in an attempt to affect others, particularly not in the E9 sense of things, for some it may be a ploy to stop others focusing on something they don't want raised but for many I expect it's simply about not facing reality themselves with little regard for what others do. And control isn't a word I'd use to describe that, avoidance is better.

If someone feels controlled by that their choice to feel that way is on them.



fourtines said:


> *9w8* - acquiring power, calm and peacefulness, control / intimidation *9w1 *- acquiring power + attracting love, calm and peacefulness, perfectionism
> 
> *Both 9 types want to acquire power, and the 9w8 has control/intimidation as a secondary characteristic.*
> ...
> 6, 7, 8 and 9 ALL want power.


The problem I have with that is presuming motivations. I think maybe you've had experience with certain 9s who cannot representative the type in full, or they create a certain reaction in you that reads their motivations through your own lens.

I can only speak for myself here, but I'm a 9w8 _and _a NT and intimidation is something I would never be accused of. I want to be in control of myself and my life (although I accept whatever comes), and to not be dominated by others, but I have no interest in controlling others or having power.



fourtines said:


> I think I'm used to 9s (like many in this thread) denying their need for control especially because of my sister... she does quietly control my family.


You see the issue with that is it's projection. You know your sister is a 9 so when you see a behaviour in another 9 that you've seen in her you're presuming it means the same thing. Doesn't work that way.


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## Jewl (Feb 28, 2012)

I know I for one don't want "power". I think all types want _control_, though, to some degree. Just in different ways. Nines aren't aggressive or dominant, but they can be passive-aggressive sometimes. They can be "sneaky" when they manipulate (because, let's face it, we _all_ do). So are Nines the _most_ controlling? No. No type is the "most" controlling. 

As for want for "power" or "dominance", I just want somebody else to take power and take the lead. XD But I know that I can be pretty controlling in other ways. And my sister and mom say that I can be stubborn when it comes to certain things. Very stubborn.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Sonny said:


> I've seen that too, unprompted and unwelcomed... _awkward._
> 
> Yeah it's excessive at the least. It tends to amaze me how unaware some people can be of how unwelcome their buttinskis are when they do that.
> 
> ...


It's not just her. It may be the combination of her being an Fe dom and being a 9w8....but let me tell you, my 9w1 ISxJ admitted OPENLY that he loves being stubborn and quiet as a form of pissing off or frustrating fussy, angry, or expressive people. He told me, straight up. Used his mom as an example. Later, he did it to me. Also, when he "trolled" people on-line his methodology was to stay very cool, detached, and make short clipped statements, like he was staying very "chill" and watching the drama unfold around him. He also used his "peace" as a way to avoid life for nearly two years of his life, and it did affect other people, and it did make his mom fussier for example, because he was fucking stagnant. 9s can be abusive by neglect, and I think my ISTP 9w8's older sister is an INFP 9w1...and she's the sweetest person in the world, I don't think she has control issues...but I do think she can let things slide to the point of neglect. 

I'm not the one who classified 9w8 as having intimidation or control as a secondary motive, btw. Those I copied from an enneagram resource.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

P.S. I love all of these people I'm talking about, love them VERY much (to varying degrees, and in different ways, pending on my relationship with them) so I'm *not* demonizing 9s, before anyone gets butthurt. I love 9s. I eventually would like to marry a 9, ideally.

But I don't think it's helpful for anyone to idealize any enneagram or personality type. People are controlling, they just control in different ways. And any type can be unhealthy.


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## Ryosuke93 (Feb 29, 2012)

This is just from my personal thoughts.

If she said that she might be referring to the effect of the wing types of 9 which some may regard as controlling types, the type 1 and type 8.

I find when I become controlling of others it is when I draw energy from a 1 or 2, otherwise my 4 side just wants me to be in control of myself and my own path rather than other people's path.

Also as far as controlling goes, I think my definition of controlling is them being very persistent with forcing their opinions on you. The key word is 'persistent', even after telling them "no", they will still try to force you.


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## Tater Tot (May 28, 2012)

rofll what? Nah.  They're likely to be indifferent to others controlling them, (nod their heads blankly to whatever you're saying and then go off and do their own thing) but controlling other people, I can't see that. I'd say 1, 6, and 8 are most likely to do that.

this teacher needs to sort out her crap


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