# Why All the ENTJ Hate?



## Monkey King (Nov 16, 2010)

RobynC said:


> @Monkey King
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You're right. I mixed up sociopath with psychopath. No one was trying to pin any type down for being sociopath, psychopaths, and serial killers. What you read was a joke poking at everyone's nonsensical stereotypes of xNTJs.


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## vellocent (Dec 18, 2010)

Saying thinking types don't have values is like saying feeling types can't think logically. The Ni of XNXJ types seems like they could make deep enough connections between action and consequence. Whether they use this would only be a guess, since that isn't my type. Subjectively I like these types, great people to have around in logic based classes.


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## Sequestrum (Sep 11, 2011)

donkeybals said:


> I like entj's. I haven't really thought about which type would be a serial killer, lol, but now that you bring it up. Maybe a really really really unhealthy feeler type could be one. I can see an entj most likely be a "hit man" type. The serial killer is always the least likely you suspect. Whom among the types would be the least suspected? Ah, the quiet artisian types. ISFP. Ironically enough, the shadow functions are the evil functions. And whom do they turn into when they are under extreme stress? Dum dum dum. E. N. T. J. I'm looking at you isfp's. JK


*NOBODY* expects the INFP inquisition!


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## Paradox of Vigor (Jul 7, 2010)

ENTJs rock. I've only ever met/seen one. I should've befriended him while I had the chance...


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## Monkey King (Nov 16, 2010)

Paradox of Vigor said:


> ENTJs rock. I've only ever met/seen one. I should've befriended him while I had the chance...



Lols, god I feel like a pokemon. "gotta' catcha'm all ENTJ!" seriously. The only person that has ever laughed with me on a tv commercial that was no where near humorous was an INTJ. We were on the same page, and I liked that. Though, I've never gotten close enough to hold a real conversation with him. INTJs rock as well \m/


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## Spades (Aug 31, 2011)

vellocent said:


> Saying thinking types don't have values is like saying feeling types can't think logically. The Ni of XNXJ types seems like they could make deep enough connections between action and consequence. Whether they use this would only be a guess, since that isn't my type. Subjectively I like these types, great people to have around in logic based classes.


V..alues? What's that? Yes, we certainly do. Like someone pointed out earlier, we may sometimes hurt someone in the short run, to help them out in the long run. We feel good from helping people. We have feelings (sometimes =P). We just tend to put a little more priority on the values of efficiency (for Te) and precision (Ti).

It's great to have Feelers in our lives because they remind us we are human ^_^


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## Spades (Aug 31, 2011)

Monkey King said:


> Lols, god I feel like a pokemon. "gotta' catcha'm all ENTJ!" seriously. The only person that has ever laughed with me on a tv commercial that was no where near humorous was an INTJ. We were on the same page, and I liked that. Though, I've never gotten close enough to hold a real conversation with him. INTJs rock as well \m/


ENTJ's and INTJ's are two of the closest MBTI types (from my observation). There's so much common ground to relate on. In a conversation, the ENTJ would keep the INTJ interested and engaged. And an INTJ wouldn't take any of that bullying crap (if present).

Aaah I can see it now, drawing diagrams and flowcharts, planning social experiments on our friends, y'know, the usual evil mastermind activities. Us INTJ's would probably win at chess though.

(Disclaimer: I'm too impatient for chess. Maybe I'm dangerously close to being an ENTJ.....)


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## dagnytaggart (Jun 6, 2010)

Spades said:


> Just out of curiosity, if you have no Si at all, how come you decided you were ESTJ vs. ENTJ? Is it because your Ni is weaker than your Si? That would make sense. But most intuitives posses both Ni and Ne (unlike theory suggests) because they are more intuition-inclined and less in tune with the physical world.
> 
> According to function tests, I'm Ni>Ne>Ti>Te (though in practice it could be different).


I definitely have both Ni and Ne. And a bit of Se. However, I'm decidedly a Te-dom, and settled on ESTJ because I don't think I resemble the ENTJs much. However, I'm beginning to suspect I don't much resemble ESTJs (Si) either.


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## lirulin (Apr 16, 2010)

Monkey King said:


> No one was trying to pin any type down for being sociopath, psychopaths, and serial killers. What you read was a joke poking at everyone's nonsensical stereotypes of xNTJs.


It slightly disturbs me that RobynC seemingly _wasn't _joking...


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## RobynC (Jun 10, 2011)

@Monkey King



> You're right. I mixed up sociopath with psychopath. No one was trying to pin any type down for being sociopath, psychopaths, and serial killers.


Actually sociopaths and psychopaths are more or less the same thing. Some people have differentiated based on the degree of violence, others based on whether the person was born that way or became that way. Most experts in the field generally have considered them to be interchangeable with each other. 



> What you read was a joke poking at everyone's nonsensical stereotypes of xNTJs.


Having Asperger syndrome I sometimes take some statements literally.


@lirulin



> It slightly disturbs me that RobynC seemingly _wasn't_ joking...


I actually did take the statement literally :laughing:


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## ENTJGirlLA (Oct 29, 2013)

Bottom line an undeveloped/immature person is an undeveloped/immature person. I've seen a lot of "they were bossy so they must be an ENTJ" which is an incorrect assumption - I am NOT bossy because I'm not socially inept. 

More often than not, people are intimidated by ENTJs - I have worked to minimize this but don't feel like minimizing my character for someone else's insecurities. 

In sum, we can scare people --> "ENTJ hate," and there's a common notion that every heartless, dictatorial person was an ENTJ. Not true. 

There are good and bad people in the world and you can't use MBTI to make it easier to judge someone's character. Any type that makes an effort can be a good, likable person. It is an amazing tool for personal development and developing relationships with others.

I make a conscious effort to pay attention to people's feelings more, keep my mouth shut sometimes, go with the flow, and be present (rather than off in ideas land). Subsequently, I get along to varying degrees with most people. 
Unless they're assholes - and those come in all shapes and sizes and modes of expression. An ENTJ might be more of a typical asshole whereas an ESFP can be an asshole by treating people like they're disposable and causing drama. But not that they will.

And a few things I've started to do that have made me a better ENTJ:
- When someone presents me with an emotional rant, instead of offering the solution and saying "deal with it" I say "that sucks" or "aw, I'm sorry." They're often better off solving it themselves and feel better just blowing off steam.

- When someone presents me with an emotional rant, I understand that it makes sense to them, acknowledge ("that's an intelligent thought"), and choose my battles. If it's worth arguing I will gently tell them the logic ("I think it may also be possible...")

- I phrase orders as questions. ie "Do this" becomes "Would you like to do this"

- When you are about to respond immediately to something in disagreement, pause, think, listen. Give them communication _they can handle._ Otherwise it is met with immediate rejection with many types.

- Appreciate that people aren't necessarily dumb, but they have different kinds of intelligence. Respect that and don't judge it (some people are dumb, though )

- Accept mistakes from others. Think of where they are in their learning curve. Irritation and snapping does nothing. 

- Focusing on talking about tangibles with Ss: eg sports, wine, travel, past experiences, how tangible things work, art - and not getting into "do you think maybe if..." or "I wonder if..."

- Actually being a little more S to stop over-thinking all the time. LOOK AROUND, LISTEN, FEEL, SMELL. 

- When you're about to snap, think - "relax and be patient"

- When around Is and some Ss, knowing silence is okay. Keeping your thoughts internal. Not everything needs to be shared to be true. Some people get sick of the noise because their type makes them a natural listener - and you're just thinking aloud.

- When stating an opinion, speaking slowly and softly. It seems less forceful - even if you're saying the same thing.

- Saying compliments out loud often - people need it.

- This is particularly crucial for ENTJ girls: Always treat other girls in the room like they are very important. Your dominant nature (and if you're like me, the fact that you generally click with men better anyway) can come across as catty to a lot of them so nip it in the bud. 

All this being said, ENTJs are great. Don't ever minimize yourself or try to be less - there's a reason we're the leaders  - just make other people feel like more, feel understood and appreciated, and that they can be themselves. I'm very strongly T and my T leads me to believe these things are right - being an ENTJ does not give you license to be a dick.


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## teddy564339 (Jun 23, 2010)

ENTJGirlLA said:


> Bottom line an undeveloped/immature person is an undeveloped/immature person. I've seen a lot of "they were bossy so they must be an ENTJ" which is an incorrect assumption - I am NOT bossy because I'm not socially inept.
> 
> More often than not, people are intimidated by ENTJs - I have worked to minimize this but don't feel like minimizing my character for someone else's insecurities.
> 
> ...



I wish everyone could read this post. I can't deny that ENTJs (and INTJs) are the type that I naturally have the most friction with, but if every ENTJ did all of the things that you describe in this post, I think I would get along with all of them just fine. 


Every type has their own areas of difficulty and their own areas where they can grow. I don't know which ones are the ones ENTJs have the most difficulty with. But it seems like since you've been able to overcome a lot the things that some ENTJs have trouble with, so I take my hat off to you.


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## Satan Claus (Aug 6, 2013)

ENTJ's are always looked at as warlords

ENTP's are always looked at as pricks

INTJ's are always looked at as cocky know it alls

INTP's are known as nerdy and awkward

It's not just ENTJ's it's NT's all together. Other types can't handle our awesomeness and amazing wit so they result to insulting us which is pretty impossible since we're NT's.


As for ENTJ's, I like them. I always seem to really hit it off with the ones I've met. I always find it funny when they think they can get me to be their puppet though. Silly ENTJ's. :")


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## RobynC (Jun 10, 2011)

@Spades



> On many threads I keep seeing ENTJ being described as if they are reckless serial killers.


No, I usually get a different vibe. It's usually more like pushy, domineering, highly manipulative, yet fabulously magnificent bastards.



> So it's true that they can be "arrogant assholes" sometimes


Lots of types can be arrogant assholes, not just ENTJ's. ENTP, ESTP, INTJ, ESTJ are all capable of some serious asshole behavior. ESTP's are very imposing and in your face, INTJ's can be pretty cocky too _(basically INTJ and ENTJ look very similar except one's more control freaky)_





> people are taking it to the extreme and thinking they are the most likely type to kill people.


Nah -- if I was to guess the types to go out and kill people I'd think (not in order)
→ ESTP (can be impulsive and reckless)
→ ISTP (rebellious, anarchistic, and can have oscillating moods)

→ ENTP (can be a man-child, but can also be forceful and domineering -- look how many ENTP's are 8's)
→ ENFP (similar to ENTP, possibly moodier)




> I'm sure most ENTJ's will benefit from being told how their actions affect people instead of being feared or disliked.


That depends on the person... I prefer being told. Admittedly I'm socially awkward and am relieved when somebody just tells me what I'm doing wrong.

@Arbite



> Probably because every major bad guy in any Spy film is an NTJ.


But most spies are ENTJ's or ENTP's... whether good or bad.

@Dear Sigmund

1.) Regarding Serial Killers: There are organized and disorganized serial killers.
→ Disorganized are often socially inept and possibly insane: They tend to ambush and perform blitz attacks. They can be difficult to predict because, while they leave the body where it was; few people understand the motive and it leaves everybody thinking "What da fuck was that?"

→ Organized are often socially adept and are sociopaths: They know what they're doing, they know how to sucker and lure people into traps. These types are the kind of serial killer we tend to think about. These people by necessity look normal (after all they'd arouse suspicion if they had "KILLER" on their forehead) and have a higher intelligence the higher the body-count (after all how else could they bump off so many people without detection)

@Monkey King

I don't know how many serial killers would be INTJ's, however unhealthy ENTP and ESTP's resemble psychopaths or career criminals; ENTP can look like INTP as well.

Most psychopaths aren't serial killers. They'd be more often to be
→ Conmen
→ CEO's of major corporations
→ Wall-Street Employees
→ International Bankers
→ Crooked politicians
→ Some career criminals







Some of these types could be ENTJ but not all ENTJ's are without conscience...


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## AlwaysQuestionLife (Apr 17, 2013)

I, as an INTP, know, _in my heart_, I deserve all comments and stereotypes of being a socially awkward nerd.

The ENTJ's I know are kinda bossy. Not to say that is a bad thing (because comes in handy a lot, actually. I prefer for someone like that to be around when I am trying to get something done, especially if it is not just me).

Now, the type most likely to be serial killers is not equal to the type most likely to kill. People who usually kill are impulsive and kill based on emotion. Serial killers are intelligent, organized, bold, and usually contribute to the community. If those incredibly general attributes happen to match up with yours, what does it matter? Are those not good attributes?

Sorry if all of this has been said already, I wouldn't know.

My ESTP dad is tha bomb dot com. He is one of the most open-minded (older) people I know, and it is always great to bounce ideas off of someone more practical minded than myself.

Having F's around is nice as long as they don't generally screw logic and go through life only based on feeling. It always helps me be more self-aware. My two best friends are both F's. It is pretty easy to get a good relationship going with them, imo, because we always have advice we can give each other. As long as they are somewhat rational, and not superficial.


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## Spades (Aug 31, 2011)

Nooo! I wrote this thread when I just joined PerC and didn't know a goddamn thing! I don't want it resurrected. @Dear Sigmund, can you lock this thread so it gets buried in the depths once again?


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## GranChi (Jun 16, 2013)

I know what the OP means. It kind of reminds me of four temperament descriptions (the first personality types I learned about, by the way). Sometimes they'd start with something about how no temperament is better or worse than the others, everyone's equal, etc., and then go on to describe cholerics as basically cold-hearted, angry jerks. (For those who don't know the four temperaments, choleric is the temperament that ENTJ would match up with the most - the determined, goal-oriented leader-like personality.)
But I can say that one of my best new friends in college is an ENTJ, and he's a nice, friendly and funny guy with a true sense of morality. I guess his ENTJ-ness comes out in his scientific ambitions - he's on the pre-medical track, he's done research in hospitals, and his goal is to do something in the future that will help cure cancer. So yeah, a pretty great person. Basically, screw the haters, they don't know what they're talking about.

P.S. The one I've actually seen described as a hit man-esque type is the ISTP... but with them, it's said in a positive "oh those badasses" way.


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## FakeLefty (Aug 19, 2013)

I had an ENTJ friend. Yes he was bossy and was often the "my way or the highway" type of person, but because he took charge we (my friend group) actually had plenty of things to do and hangouts were often successful and fun. The corporate leader mentality definitely has its pros and cons. 

In sum, ENTJ's have their pros and cons, but there are those who turn out to be great friends.


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## AustenT09 (Jul 8, 2013)

I love entjs


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## Pendit76 (Jul 31, 2013)

I feel like a lot of the ENTJ hate has come from the fact that we are so blunt. I have offended a ton of people in my life because I didn't have the time to explain myself, and I can often become compulsive and too goal oriented. I sometimes will deprive myself of sleep, food, companionship, or whatever to accomplish a potentially stupid goal. 

If I would describe an ENTJ as a criminal, it would be a leader of a mob organization or other organized crime. We organize other people well, can have weak centers of morality, and often think in black/white. I personally would rather take the Jack Nicholson role where I keep tabs on everyone and have spies rather than be on the front lines, which would be fun as well. I've always wanted to work in politics or in situations with tricky social structures, personally.


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