# Women are smarter?



## SalvinaZerelda (Aug 26, 2010)

I'm sure at least some of you have heard people say this sort of thing..
Why would people believe that women are smarter than men?


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## Epherion (Aug 23, 2011)

Because men do foolish thing when they are young. For example a drinking contest will most always be b/t two men. Or "hey man, wanna drag race?" will most always be uttered by men.
Secondly, that line is usually uttered as a despairing comment when a man fucks up in the eyes of a woman usually in a relationship. And this is due to communication differences b/t genders and MBTI types.
Thirdly, define smart? Most people give the women are smart when they see them working harder than men. Working hard is not a sign of intelligence. One of my close friends has to put in 2 hours extra to grasp concepts i figured out in class, and i constantly coast and do the bare minimum.
Fourthly, grades, GPA, test scores? I have said it before its not a sign of intelligence its that you put more time in.
Higher education? Nope, education is not correlated to intelligence. I think we all know people that should not be in college.

In my xp there are stupid women, there is one sitting across from me right now in Starbucks, but due to PC, society turns a blind eye.

I predict gender battle in 3...2,1:


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## StElmosDream (May 26, 2012)

Supposed work ethic and intellectual application; bit unclear really when many Colleges or Universities have a higher female student intake however at the same time grades or degree standards hardly ever equal better wages. 

In my mind statistics about gender intelligences and maturities can be quite misleading when culture, background, motivation and other socio-economic factors suggest that woman are no less successful than male counterparts in many industries (often less well paid or 'toe-dipping in preparation for family life'). For example in Computing and primary/elementary education courses it seems gender offers no advantages, when an average or poor student is still the same person albeit with higher levels of each gender i.e. more IT students are still male and many female students are 'likely' to be nurses or counsellors (just confused job requirements really, reinforced by fears of societal disapproval).

These days I see equal amounts of reckless or 'stupid woman' as men its just less acknowledged, because of political correctness that suggests "oh leave them to it everyone is entitled to party or have a good time as long as they hand in work on time" or "she's having a worse time cut them some slack" when at times these same considerations are 'forgotten' for male counterparts (still too many gender divides and gender role allowances... not always but I have seen moochers in both genders take advantage of people needlessly). 

Personally I think much is down to people and their level of commitment (maturity and future goal aspirations mostly, coupled with desire to do their best), when as a male I still achieved the highest degree classification possible yet many guys did not out of laziness/not seeking coursework clarifications or 'overcommitments to paid employment'. In contrast some woman may not have put enough effort in either when UK A grade (1.0; first class honours) for any degree is still often reserved for the most able or committed of 'the top' 15-30% students... sad but true when I saw so many students with high GPAs before University that couldn't be bothered.


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## HippoHunter94 (Jan 19, 2012)

If women were really that much smarter, it seems they would have found a way around male supremacy a long time ago. That being said, intelligence can't really be quantified by gender. If the dramatic relationship crap on my Facebook news feed is any indication, then I'd say we're about equal.


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## disasterbunny (Jul 2, 2012)

psst don't tell anyone... I think they found the way around male supremacy centuries ago. I think they rule the world from our bedrooms...


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## amanda32 (Jul 23, 2009)

It's never a good thing to start saying, "men are smarter or women are smarter".

It's childish for a start and simplistic. It's also sexist.

Men are not smarter than women or vise versa. Generally speaking, men and women may be smarter (or prone to be 'smarter' -- maybe just interested in) different things; but they are equals.

Women might say they are smarter than men because they are tired of hearing that men are smarter than them and they're 'retaliating'? That's my first guess.

My second would be that they're talking about an area they believe women are more prone to being adept at -- generally speaking.


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## Briguy (Nov 20, 2011)

What does it mean to be smarter? There is a disproportionate number of men in the STEM fields, only 16% of engineering students are women. The STEM fields are the most difficult fields to major in. Women are more than welcome, even encouraged to major in Math, or Engineering, entire scholarships are available for women only in order to lure them away from education degrees. Google and Facebook have entire programs for hiring women because so few have CS degrees. If you want to compare how men behave politically on a global scale then we must first acknowledge that there is little to no data to compare a world of predominately female leaders to male leaders as women are a minority in government(s). Yet women politically are more liberal than men, and people who are liberal rate a higher IQ than those who are conservative, thus women would appear smarter in terms of IQ. You simply can not say one is better than the other. To the poster who stated women make better choices when young, at my university women are the ones out partying and men remain at home, in their dorms. I can prove this because my Uni did a study that concluded women drank more throughout the course of 30 days than men, while men drank more during each sitting than women. What we are seeing today with recent books pointing to a percieved disparity in intelligence between men and women is simply backlash from a dark time in feminism during the 90's in which a certain part of feminism began claiming that one gender was better or worse than the other. This is of course directly against everything feminism was founded on. So in conclusion, define smart, no difference in intelligence, only small people believe one gender is better than the other. And yet no one can give me an answer as to why there are so few women in the STEM fields, sad.


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## Grac3 (Dec 14, 2011)

Rune said:


> I'm sure at least some of you have heard people say this sort of thing..
> Why would people believe that women are smarter than men?


Because it's true. 

Problem solved.


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## StElmosDream (May 26, 2012)

Briguy said:


> What does it mean to be smarter? There is a disproportionate number of men in the STEM fields, only 16% of engineering students are women. The STEM fields are the most difficult fields to major in. Women are more than welcome, even encouraged to major in Math, or Engineering, entire scholarships are available for women only in order to lure them away from education degrees. Google and Facebook have entire programs for hiring women because so few have CS degrees.


Such a good point, the most annoying argument I hear is how "woman mature faster than men" in educational terms, my experience has been quite the opposite when 18-21 year olds (or those living away from home for the first time) can seem equally immature or unfocussed to achieve better grades in coursework. One girl on my course hardly attended lectures but would always be seen at social outings until the final year and a few others just failed to put the hours into achieving better grades... the same could be said for the 60/40 ratio of males in CS but ultimately I think maturity wins over intellect more than people realise.


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## bales33 (Aug 8, 2012)

I have no idea why people think that, all I know is that the truly smart one is the one who realize's you can't judge intelligence without meeting a person.


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## SalvinaZerelda (Aug 26, 2010)

Grac3 said:


> Because it's true.
> 
> Problem solved.


Smarter in our own way? 
Personally I can't imagine any one sex being smarter than the other, but some of these arguments about the hypocrisy of feminism make me wonder what true gender equality would be like.

Maybe testosterone vs. estrogen.. well, these are chemicals that have an effect on our brains.. both are important to humanity.

I suppose I will begin learning more about estrogen and testosterone to understand the differences better.


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## Grac3 (Dec 14, 2011)

Rune said:


> Smarter in our own way?
> Personally I can't imagine any one sex being smarter than the other, but some of these arguments about the hypocrisy of feminism make me wonder what true gender equality would be like.
> 
> Maybe testosterone vs. estrogen.. well, these are chemicals that have an effect on our brains.. both are important to humanity.
> ...


haha Well I guess I wasn't really trying to get technical but more just have fun with the topic. But I agree, I don't see either sex as being smarter as a whole because there really is no way that something like the intelligence of an entire gender can so simply be measured. I'm not sure if testosterone vs. estrogen would really be able to help you figure this out though since both men and women have some of each and a lot of people also deal with hormonal imbalances.

I guess this will always be one of those questions no one will ever be able to come to an accurate conclusion about.


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## StElmosDream (May 26, 2012)

Rune said:


> Smarter in our own way?
> Personally I can't imagine any one sex being smarter than the other, but some of these arguments about the hypocrisy of feminism make me wonder what true gender equality would be like.
> 
> Maybe testosterone vs. estrogen.. well, these are chemicals that have an effect on our brains.. both are important to humanity.
> ...


Admittedly hormones and chemicals do influence people, although the real question is why people feel they should i.e. why certain traits or aptitudes are assigned to genders, especially when there are so few fields or areas of research both sexes cannot perform with varying degrees of success.


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

I think the masculine energy person encompasses the strengths that are the feminine energies weaknesses 
and vice versa ... the man leads but without woman ... he's just running in circles, chasing his tale  Lol!


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## Zster (Mar 7, 2011)

While I was growing up, the girls were always at the top of the class, with the boys lagging WAY behind. However, my son is an academic genius and rules his class, with about 4 other boys.

Bottom line: neither gender holds the smart title just due to their gender - it depends what indiviiduals are in the sampling.


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## Enkidu (Apr 19, 2010)

StElmosDream said:


> In my mind statistics about gender intelligences and maturities can be quite misleading when culture, background, motivation and other socio-economic factors suggest that woman are no less successful than male counterparts in many industries (often less well paid or 'toe-dipping in preparation for family life'). For example in Computing and primary/elementary education courses it seems gender offers no advantages, when an average or poor student is still the same person albeit with higher levels of each gender i.e. more IT students are still male and many female students are 'likely' to be nurses or counsellors (just confused job requirements really, reinforced by fears of societal disapproval).


That's well put. Men and women are socialized in increasingly different ways, no thanks to stereotyping by the media, unfair societal expectations e.g. birth mothers are inherent nurturers, males are raised to be bread-winners, women are not capable of defending themselves, etc. and children imitate their parents, repeating the mistakes of previous generations. In addition to that list, boys and girls are predominantly raised by their own gender. The effect of this is that women learn with emphasis on verbal, face-to-face communication and through sharing-participation. While men value symbolic, visual representations of ideas - this means they learn to process feelings & knowledge through action, socially reinforced through competition, and thus seem impatient with discussion and debate. Besides a person's rearing, diet also has a major effect on a person's physical and mental output. A diet heavy in sugars, saturated fats, and carbohydrates, or too much protein (in men) changes a person's outlook, energy level, and ability to process information consistently. It's a complicated answer. While men and women are markedly different, they are also just as similar - cultures need to raise their people to see both sides equally. 



amanda32 said:


> It's never a good thing to start saying, "men are smarter or women are smarter".
> 
> It's childish for a start and simplistic. It's also sexist.
> 
> ...


Some of these gender differences are more social than biological, but people shouldn't forget the hormonal difference between the sexes. Mentally, I doubt there is any intelligence gap between men and women, at least in any noticeable way. The effect of sex hormones on the male and female brain is essentially what keeps male + female the dynamic they are. Transsexuals that have hormones typical of a male display brain patterns caused by testosterone, while the obverse is true of the estrogenic effects on the brain. Women and men are the same species, so they have the same brain! Inbred reproductive- and child-rearing roles just tweak male and female brain functions chemically at conception - this is genetic instinct. The slight mental discrepancy between sexes is functional, *not* quantitative. Visually, you can liken this to a yin-yang of estrogen-testosterone; verbally, fe(male) are interconnected, alike, inseparable, yet distinct.


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

Epherion said:


> In my xp there are stupid women, there is one sitting across from me right now in Starbucks, but due to PC, society turns a blind eye.


Since when? Society pressures women into dumbing themselves down so that they'll be more attractive to men, many of whom feel threatened by a woman's intelligence.



> I predict gender battle in 3...2,1:


You mean biological sex, and battles of the sexes are for immature idiots.


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

HippoHunter94 said:


> If women were really that much smarter, it seems they would have found a way around male supremacy a long time ago.


Oh, of course. I mean, look at those black people, right? Surely if they were smart they wouldn't have been enslaved then treated like second-class citizens even in the 21st century?

Sarcasm aside, what is with the irrational statement? In terms of intelligence, there is little difference between the average man and average woman, but when women were basically without rights in most countries until recently, and still are in some, when many women and girls worldwide are barred from education and therefore are illiterate and dependant on their families, how can you say that thy could have just removed male supremacy by use of their intelligence alone?


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

disasterbunny said:


> psst don't tell anyone... I think they found the way around male supremacy centuries ago. I think they rule the world from our bedrooms...


No, they don't, and how can you even come to such a conclusion?


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## Arclight (Feb 10, 2010)

Females mature faster than males. This obviously gives them a head start socially and intellectually.. Males catch up.
But this is based on IQ.. Women score about 5 points higher on average than men do. However the highest over all scores tend to be males. 
Take this with a grain of salt since according to another thread .. IQ doesn't mean diddly squat (unless the results back up some PC standard) 
But you know some people like to have their cake and eat it too.


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

Ningsta Kitty said:


> I think the masculine energy person encompasses the strengths that are the feminine energies weaknesses
> and vice versa ... the man leads but without woman ... he's just running in circles, chasing his tale  Lol!


There's no such thing as "masculine energy" and "feminine energy", as masculinity and femininity are human concepts, not qualities found in nature. You also have to take into account that few men are fully masculine and few women are fully feminine.


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

Arclight said:


> Females mature faster than males. This obviously gives them a head start socially and intellectually.. Males catch up.
> But this is based on IQ.. Women score about 5 points higher on average than men do. However the highest over all scores tend to be males.
> Take this with a grain of salt since according to another thread .. IQ doesn't mean diddly squat (unless the results back up some PC standard)
> But you know some people like to have their cake and eat it too.


IQ doesn't mean anything regardless of what it backs up.


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## Arclight (Feb 10, 2010)

skycloud86 said:


> IQ doesn't mean anything regardless of what it backs up.


Then according to you.. This thread is pointless. The only proof or evidence out there to back up the notion that females are more intelligent than males is a 5 point difference on average scores between males and females using IQ as the model of testing.

We are lucky to have you around making your absolute statements and showing us how we are all morally scum and intellectual morons in your presence.
Still haven't learned any social skills have you? It's funny you claim to know what goes on in people's bedrooms.


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

Arclight said:


> Then according to you.. This thread is pointless. The only proof or evidence out there to back up the notion that females are more intelligent than males is a 5 point difference on average scores between males and females using IQ as the model of testing.


An IQ test doesn't measure intelligence, you should know that seeing as you seem to be quite knowledgeable about such tests.



> We are lucky to have you around making your absolute statements and showing us how we are all morally scum and intellectual morons in your presence.


Overreacting much? I don't know where the inferiority complex has come from all of a sudden, especially when all I did was state that IQ tests are meaningless, which they are for most intents and purposes.



> Still haven't learned any social skills have you?


I have no idea what that has to do with anything.



> It's funny you claim to know what goes on in people's bedrooms.


Firstly, no I don't. Secondly, what does that have to do with this thread?


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## Epherion (Aug 23, 2011)

skycloud86 said:


> Since when? Society pressures women into dumbing themselves down so that they'll be more attractive to men, many of whom feel threatened by a woman's intelligence.


Since when what? 





> You mean biological sex, and battles of the sexes are for immature idiots.


Quite right, but lets look at our generation.



Arclight said:


> But this is based on IQ.. Women score about 5 points higher on average than men do. However the highest over all scores tend to be males.


Actually thats only half right. Between the ages of 7-14 girls score high on IQ tests. After that time span when they become young adults, boys score higher with a 4pt advantage on their side.



Zster said:


> While I was growing up, the girls were always at the top of the class, with the boys lagging WAY behind.


That is still true today as well. But the reason for it is the current educational system(US) goes against male learning styles and the lack of father figures in boys lives. I can personally attest to that.


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

Epherion said:


> Since when what?


Since when does society turn a blind eye to stupidity in women?


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## Epherion (Aug 23, 2011)

skycloud86 said:


> Since when does society turn a blind eye to stupidity in women?


Since women do have to hide their intelligence and men are routinely disparaged for being or acting stupid, if a woman did the same thing we would not speak ill of her and would let it go.


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

Epherion said:


> Since women do have to hide their intelligence and men are routinely disparaged for being or acting stupid, if a woman did the same thing we would not speak ill of her and would let it go.


Because society sees women as weaker and lesser, and therefore doesn't expect as much of them as it expects from men.


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## BlueG (Jun 2, 2011)

skycloud86 said:


> An IQ test doesn't measure intelligence, you should know that seeing as you seem to be quite knowledgeable about such tests.


People that believe IQ in no way measures intelligence makes me want to throw things. 



Briguy said:


> And yet no one can give me an answer as to why there are so few women in the STEM fields, sad.


Another question is why are there so few people overall in STEM?


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## Epherion (Aug 23, 2011)

skycloud86 said:


> Because society sees women as weaker and lesser, and therefore doesn't expect as much of them as it expects from men.


I'm fully aware of the patriarchy skycloud.


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## Enkidu (Apr 19, 2010)

skycloud86 said:


> There's no such thing as "masculine energy" and "feminine energy", as masculinity and femininity are human concepts, not qualities found in nature. You also have to take into account that few men are fully masculine and few women are fully feminine.


She's a kidder. She's saying essentially the same thing you're implying: biologically, men and women counter one another. Right, that's the crux of it - measured on a scale of 0-5 few men are squarely pegged in 5, while few women are are at the far end of 5-10. Similarly, it would be like saying, "Today, I am displaying 6.7 male- and 3.3 female tendencies." That sounds pretty silly. This being said, by definition masculine and feminine are as much behavior as your conception of *red* and its corresponding word. That is, it is learned.


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

skycloud86 said:


> There's no such thing as "masculine energy" and "feminine energy", as masculinity and femininity are human concepts, not qualities found in nature. You also have to take into account that few men are fully masculine and few women are fully feminine.


well. Not sure what life experience you've had. But I beg to differ ... I am most definitely fully feminine. There is strength in vulnerability. Maybe you just haven't been exposed to one before. Also, I have met LOTS of couples, where the woman is more protective in nature and the man more nurturing. Maybe you are more nurturing in nature, and sensitive to the imagined insult to your masculinity. Just if you have a more feminine nature, would not mean you are less than a man. Just that your way of being within the relationship context differs. It's a spectrum. I do not think it reasonable to lump people in gay, lesbian, straight; bozo buckets. (that's a reference to a TV show. that's all)


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

Ningsta Kitty said:


> well. Not sure what life experience you've had. But I beg to differ ... I am most definitely fully feminine.


I know that some women are fully feminine and I didn't deny their existence. What I did say was that there is no such thing as "masculine energy" and "feminine energy". 



> There is strength in vulnerability. Maybe you just haven't been exposed to one before. Also, I have met LOTS of couples, where the woman is more protective in nature and the man more nurturing.


Exactly, that's what I'm saying - men are not always masculine and women are not always feminine.


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

skycloud86 said:


> I know that some women are fully feminine and I didn't deny their existence. What I did say was that there is no such thing as "masculine energy" and "feminine energy". ACK! This is language. These are "For lack of a better term" moments, considering it's an abstract concept up for discussion. There will NEVER be perfect labels to define something you 'feel' ...
> 
> Exactly, that's what I'm saying - men are not always masculine and women are not always feminine.


 Not gonna lie Sky ... I am starting to think you follow my posts as you have a crush on me :tongue:

Either that or you are ONE CHEEKY Trouble Maker!!!!


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

Ningsta Kitty said:


> Not gonna lie Sky ... I am starting to think you follow my posts as you have a crush on me :tongue:
> 
> Either that or you are ONE CHEEKY Trouble Maker!!!!


No, I just respond to posts I feel the need to respond to.


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

Enki said:


> She's a kidder. She's saying essentially the same thing you're implying: biologically, men and women counter one another. Right, that's the crux of it - measured on a scale of 0-5 few men are squarely pegged in 5, while few women are are at the far end of 5-10. Similarly, it would be like saying, "Today, I am displaying 6.7 male- and 3.3 female tendencies." That sounds pretty silly. This being said, by definition masculine and feminine are as much behavior as your conception of *red* and its corresponding word. That is, it is learned.


Nice  I like it. I had to read it twice to though to make sure I got what you were saying just right. I never realized just how NOT Concrete I think! Ack! Life is hard to be me!!! People either think I'm a kidder or I'm crazy!  What a bummer :/
In any case, your example of red was perfect. Impressed :kitteh:


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

skycloud86 said:


> No, I just respond to posts I feel the need to respond to.


either that or your trying to make everyone cross eyed by your avatar! 

note: I'm teasing you sky ... relax. 
Try not to take life so seriously  

*holds breathe as author may have just signed her death warrant  *


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## strawberryLola (Sep 19, 2010)

Rune said:


> I'm sure at least some of you have heard people say this sort of thing..
> Why would people believe that women are smarter than men?


I'm not sure why people do this either.

Reminds me of when bitter men and women sit down and talk about how dumb one or the other is in circular conversations amongst themselves in a very linear thinkin kinda way.

Whenever people classify others as a race (class/or gender) as being smarter, I start to question their own level of intelligence.


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## Epherion (Aug 23, 2011)

disasterbunny said:


> in terms of manipulation they're lightyears ahead of us


Also a sexist assumption. In both that all women posses the ability and men somehow fail at it. My dad is still the best at messing with women.


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

disasterbunny said:


> in terms of manipulation they're lightyears ahead of us


HAhahahhaha!!!!! Are you crazy!!!!

the only tame lion is the lion who tames himself.

that is to say, if you can't smell your own bullshit ... how are you NOT a manipulator. 

men and women alike have the capacity to be amazing or shitty ...

haha...you had to be joking :wink:


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## Enkidu (Apr 19, 2010)

Marlowe said:


> They were until the word "materialistic" entered the dictionary. The fairer sex has been screwed ever since.


Contradictions abound. This is like a conflict of materialist and immaterialist thinking in two sentences. The very same materialist that edited and published your dictionary, has raised, and taught you to disregard half of yourself. "_Materialism doesn't make materialism true_." Hard-fought suffrage of the past 3 generations has won you the luxury you enjoy today. Don't let it go to waste, protect your rights.


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## Vaka (Feb 26, 2010)

I'm not sure 'which sex is smarter', but I don't think it matters anyway. Both sexes will have people either using the generalization to put their own intelligence on a pedestal, or they will use it to judge the opposite sex. Both of which are dumb as hell. It would prove nothing. But really, I hear much more often that men think they're more intelligent, not the other way around


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## donkeybals (Jan 13, 2011)

I blame shows like "Home Improvement" that developed this trend. Tim Allen, is always the bumbling fool who makes poor choices, and Jill is always the one who straitens him out. 

As far as iq, I think men and women are roughly the same, giving the men a slight edge. But men are better creators and come up with great ideas for inventions and have easily been the winners as far as progression in society. However, men get a lot of inspiration from women.


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## Verthani (May 8, 2012)

It depends on what you mean by smarter.

Women are usually stereotyped as being wiser or more down to earth that their foolish hair-brained husbands. But the other side of the coin is the stupid trophy wife with the successful but cold and intelligent man.

Females get the ugly duckling or hot librarian tropes, while men get the nerd or tall dark and snarky tropes. So at the very least their stereotypes are even in the realms of insult and objectification.

On a more serious note however I remember this study linked to a test I found a while back about "male" and "female" intelligence as developed by our societal roles or the centuries. Basically it was about how our brains had adapted to the prefer different types of intelligences based on the roles men and women have filled over the years. Men had higher spatial and logical reasoning skills on average because of the role of the hunter gatherer. Women on the other hand had higher short term memory and are better at multitasking because of being the primary childcare givers and having to keep track of tasks around a home. 

Now both of those are just on average and one of the reasons they had a test to go along with the study was to gather data on said subject and compare your results to other members of your gender. If I could remember the name of the site I would definitely link it but its been at least a year or two since I read it so unless someones really interested I don't wanna bother looking for it. I do remember that I had a more masculine brain though because I scored higher is spatial and reasoning than women usually do. Of course I'm also thinking of going into one of those STEM fields talked about earlier in this thread so that at least makes sense.


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## Hypaspist (Feb 11, 2012)

It depends on the individual, not the gender. I've met women that were dumber than a bag of bricks and I've met men who fail at life outside of their comfort zone. On the other end, I had a close female friend who was smarter than most people I've met while I have met men who make me look like an elementary school student.


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## bellisaurius (Jan 18, 2012)

I think the question is more interesting than just a "who's smarter?" On average, the two are about the same, but the distribution is different. There are men of low intelligence than there are women, and also more men of high intelligence than there are women of the same: Sex differences in mental test scores, variability, ... [Science. 1995] - PubMed - NCBI and International Review of Research in Mental Retardation: Developmental ... - Google Books


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## Icebreaker (Aug 20, 2012)

Actually men are smarter but we waste our brain running after girls while girls are commited to their aim they are hardworkers so they enjoy a good academic background.


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## Wellsy (Oct 24, 2011)

I prefer it when girls are smarter than me. 
Well we're both of the human race and our race is very diverse and full of variables.
Im pretty sure the reason 100 is your average IQ is to start going in either direction. Like going up from 1 to 1.4 or going down to .7

The bell curve has the majority of people in the average IQ range and then you get the outliers, mentally handicapped and geniuses some of which are perhaps borderline crazy, having strange quirks about them.
Someone like Nikola Tesla is a genius of a man but he had some interesting behaviours. Suppose the gender roles have put women less in a position to do the same thing sin the past and still happens to a degree.
I remember an interview of Kaki King and they talk about how great of a guitarist she is and she humbly said that there are many great women guitarists she probably just stood out because she does mostly instrumentals.
The point being that in somethings women aren't recognize and in other thins men aren't either.
You could wonder how many women engineers or inventors and things like that there are but then perhaps many have been conditioned to not go for higher jobs.

There was also a interesting thought of how women don't try as hard in the workforce because they're expecting a baby, they won't go for a promotion because they dont want to added work and are thinking ahead of if they get pregnant which slows up their motivation to be a go getter at work. I dont think you can attribute intelligence to any type of people besides the individuals themselves and then as smart as they are they are probably lacking in obvious areas.
It then becomes how much do we value what that person does. How many scientists can do the work of a mechanic, how many psychologists can engineer a bridge.
People have their strengths and they play to them and do well, when you look at a professional musician you don't think oh they're probably shit at this and that, you're in awe of what they can and are doing.
I can't personally explain why women are dominating education, I simply don't know but i've still seen plenty of silly girls.
Education isn't a good example of intelligence either, it is a good measure of academics certainly but I knew a girl who would frustrate me with the silliest of questions.
Many things she seemed to lack and came off to me as ignorant but she also got better grades than me in English because she worked harder and put the effort in. Really the world is like this, we reward people who put in the effort.
Jimi Hendrix, Mohammad Ali and many great people didn't become super stars over night, they are iconic but they also worked their arse off to get there.


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## Mr. Meepers (May 31, 2012)

If we, as a society, ask the question "Which sex is smarter?" it can be hard to answer and may have some consequences, maybe even some "man-made truths". I believe most IQ tests are created so that, on average, men and women have about the same overall score ... this makes the IQ test not very suitable to examine overall intelligence between the sexes by itself ... not to mention that there may be other factors/variables that may affect an individual's score (and maybe an overall groups score), such as confidence, sleep, and diet (these are guesses, so take with a grain of salt) ... and maybe even practice. There are probably aspects of intelligence that it does not test. Also I have my doubts that a timed test can measure deeper aspects of intelligence.

Even so, we can make measurements between the sexes. Men are show to be better at spacial reasoning I believe, and women are better with verbal reasoning ... I have also heard that men have a greater standard deviation of overall IQ scores than women have (variability) ... I beliefs the variability is explained by saying that there is some section of the X chromosome that is connected to intelligence and that women have two X-chromosomes, and only one X chromosome is on in each call, so if only one X chromosome has an abnormality it won't cause as much variation because there is a normal X chromosome ... while all men's genetics that come from their X chromosome are more of a gamble ... putting all your eggs in one basket in a sense (Hey, us men love to gamble  //jk) ........... I also wonder if some of the variation could be caused by sex roles in the society ... women were expected to stay home, while men were expected to get a job outside the home (greater variation).

The thing I did not mention yet is that supposedly are brains are fairly malleable and we can affect how our brains think and feel. I believe I heard that a person that is depressed a lot can actually change the brain chemistry and networking to make it easier to fall back into depression. I believe the brain was said to be malleable for other cognitive abilities ... this makes me wonder if even some sex differences (regarding brain functions) start out innate, overtime would these "natural" cognitive sex differences really even matter, especially in a society where we had equal expectations of men and women.
........... And even if that is not the case, by saying that one sex is innately more adept at something on average, do we influence society in a way that make people tend to hold themselves back or even introduce sexism (people may make judgement based on sex because, from a probabilistic standpoint, one sex may usually do better than the other) ... thereby creating larger sex differences.
By studying ourselves, do we affect ourselves? I would think the answer is yes. ... That does not mean that we should not study ourselves, I think we should ... but I think we need to be careful with how we study ourselves, as there maybe consequences to how we go about it.

For instance, if an IQ test says men, on average, scored higher than women ... do we:
a) Say that men are smarter in what the test studied (for biological or societal reasons)
b) Say that the test suggests that men are smarter in this area, so we are going to see where there is some sexism in society causing this difference
c) Claim the test was biased ... maybe due to some sex roles in society
d) Some combination of the above
e) Don't interpret the data at all (then what is the point of collecting the data)
f) Something else

I would think a and b OR b and c would probably go together very nicely in a society that assumes that, on a cognitive level, men and women can be equal in every way.
What our assumptions are going into the experiment may affect how we interpret the experiment. And there are always some assumptions (usually the less, the better ... but, without some assumptions, where would we start our conversations ... in cases where the science can affect society, I think not only scientific values should apply, but maybe some values that are important to the society too ... especially in cases where we can not know truth because, by observing and reporting the data, we affect what it the truth (making the "truth" change over time due to our "interference"))

So, are adult women more intelligent than adult men, or are adult men more intelligent that adult women? 
I don't think we could ever really know the answer to that ... our DNA may make suggestions, but it seems there is more to intelligence than DNA, even at the biological level ... We maybe able to see snap-shots of one sex being "smarter" than the other, but we would always have to raise the question again ... the answer is not really a permanent one, unless we try and influence the answer ... And I'm not sure such a question should ever be asked in such a way ... Perhaps it is better to assume that men and women can be equal in any conscious cognitive function on average. ... When it comes to intellectual differences between the sexes, maybe our moral values should play a role too.

Edit: Maybe not values of the society, but some sort of philosophical ethical principles, such as equality


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Men and women are smart in different ways. Women have more connection between the two sides of their brain, so "holistic" thinking is considered more feminine. That's why people talk about women's intuition, and women having a more difficult time separating sex from love, and about men being more grounded or rational, because men actually do seem to think more in particulars rather than connecting their feelings to their thoughts (right and left brain are more connected in female brain, if no one is understanding the point I'm meandering toward). 

I think this is why in caricature the two polar opposites of ENFP/ISTJ are presented as the female and male: female is talkative, intuitive, feeling, accommodating; male is more taciturn, grounded, serious, and organized. Women may like clean, but they are messy, have you ever heard this? Women and their fussy disorganization. However, this doesn't mean ENFP. ESFJs can be "messy" because they may like external judging but not necessarily be Te, which is more inclined to structured, and they still have tertiary Ne. Also, Jungian intuition isn't the same thing as "women's intuition" ...women's intuition is more about feeling functions, I think, though it could potentially be about tertiary or inferior Ni. Women's intuition is like...feeling something is wrong with a loved one or a family member, not thinking in the abstract or liking moving from theory first to fact. 

Women may be more cautious about safety, or be socially smarter on average (supposedly 75 percent of women are feelers!) so the bias is that women are more careful and socially adept, so can be seen as "smarter" that way, but then there is the bias that men are more rational and intellectual, and smarter.

Someone could tell you either gender is smarter, just depends on who you ask. I think men and women are just different.


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## Arrow (Mar 2, 2012)

I always thought the "typical female" that society promoted most women as being, was thought to be some kind of SFJ stereotype.


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## StElmosDream (May 26, 2012)

fourtines said:


> Men and women are smart in different ways. Women have more connection between the two sides of their brain, so "holistic" thinking is considered more feminine. That's why people talk about women's intuition, and women having a more difficult time separating sex from love, and about men being more grounded or rational, because men actually do seem to think more in particulars rather than connecting their feelings to their thoughts (right and left brain are more connected in female brain, if no one is understanding the point I'm meandering toward).


Not sure"woman's intuition" is still culturally just female based, when I read somewhere that INFJ or NF types may be more prone to using both hemispheres irrespective of gender, when considering the significance of Fe and heightened empathy... almost as if emotional understanding of the self and others makes people more rational in the deep listening/trusting people from character sensing abilities alone.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

I think that in terms of social perception and stereotypes, it's more acceptable for a man to be dumb than a woman. Like, if you look at all the "airhead blonde" jokes around--vs. the "dumb jock" stereotypes, I think being a dumb woman is more degrading.

"Dumb" guys can be clowns and entertaining, but dumb women are more likely to be seen as "easy."

I know ESFP isn't characterized by "dumbness" but I think this video illustrates some different gender perceptions of "dumb" guys vs. girls. I would rather play the part of a clown than an "airhead," but the clown persona isn't as accessible to women, I feel. 















Plus, as far as employment goes--I think it's more important for a woman to be educated. Uneducated men have access to relatively higher-paying jobs than uneducated women do. Not that education is a good measure of intelligence.

Edit: I guess my point is that maybe women feel a different kind of pressure to cultivate a persona of intelligence (or just plain cultivate intelligence).


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## Sapphyreopal5 (Jun 11, 2012)

If you ask me, IQ tests don't prove much at all. Why? They are limited to the creator's (or creators') definition of what constitutes measurable intelligence. In a really strange way, IQ tests (as each one tests different things, sorry there's not standard on what's tested [there's supposed to be but all tests are different]) are like a confirmation bias for the creators' definition of intelligence but they can get away with it because it's supposed to be "standardized" when it really is biased.

Somewhere in the process of simplifying such a complex thing (being intelligence in this case) into something tangible and measurable, such as an IQ test, biases of what is considered intelligence or otherwise will be made. That goes with anything really.

Everyone is going to have biases in what they consider intelligence (or lack of) whether they are aware of it or not (or if they wish to admit it or not).

As far as the battle of the sexes aspect of debating intelligence goes, I do think a lot of biases of whether a male is smarter than a female (and vice versa) due to a multitude of factors. 

1. The biases I mentioned that are created in the process of defining intelligence in the first place.

2. Sociological studies. If we were to look at statistics, someone who believes a more educated person is going to be more intelligent may say women are more intelligent. Why? Current statistics show women are increasingly getting the bigger degrees (ex. Masters and Bachelors degrees) and has been increasing over the years.

3. IQ tests. Men will start to score higher above a certain IQ (trends seem to show more men will have higher IQs above the 130 mark, although as I said earlier, IQ tests are limited to the creator of the IQ test. Sure IQ tests aren't biased in regards to "favoring" certain groups, but they are biased in terms of what is defined as intelligence by the creator(s) of the test in the first place. The funny thing about this too is that it seems a good majority of test takers are men according to some statistics, so that too could skew the results. Furthermore, as I discuss more in more depth in the next reason, women may be less motivated to show intelligence or act "rationally", as it seems being logical and rational is a more prized definition of intelligence.
http://www.iqcomparisonsite.com/sexdifferences.aspx

4. Perhaps due to social expectations (and not to mention it seems SOME men are afraid of a woman being smarter than she is and therefore wants a more "submissive" type), women could be less MOTIVATED to show their intelligence or heck, even perform as well on IQ tests (if you believe that measures intelligence). They could also be less prone to acting "intelligent" in the eyes of a patriarchal society, as being a more intelligent woman in that type of society could be "punishable" or seen as undesirable. 
http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2011/04/what-does-iq-really-measure.html

I believe this is a good topic to discuss to perhaps change our own views and bring necessary changes to inequalities, yet at the same time if you're looking for a simple, conclusive answer you won't get one (and we may never obtain a simple, conclusive answer to this question).


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## Animal (May 29, 2012)

There are tests proving women and men TEND to excel at different types of intelligence, but to call one 'smarter' overall is like saying an enneagram type or a MTBI archetype is better than another.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

StElmosDream said:


> Not sure"woman's intuition" is still culturally just female based, when I read somewhere that INFJ or NF types may be more prone to using both hemispheres irrespective of gender, when considering the significance of Fe and heightened empathy... almost as if emotional understanding of the self and others makes people more rational in the deep listening/trusting people from character sensing abilities alone.


Well all women have a thicker corpus callosum, which is why their two sides of the brain are more connected, and all women are not NFs. Women's intuition is not the same as Jungian intuition; Jungian intuition indicates a preference for going from theory to facts, and for abstract reasoning, not "just knowing" something is wrong with a loved one, from a distance, which I think any type can do, though some have said this is Ni presenting as "mysterious" in SFPs (which is the way I would have it personally) in the position of the tertiary or inferior, because it's a less understood function in SPs and takes on a more mystical character; Jung even talks about Se doms having very pagan-esque spiritual beliefs, which he refers to as primitive or archaic symbolic rites, etc.

I do agree that Fe gives one a greater ability to "read" others emotions in person, developed Fe helps one to sometimes have such a heightened awareness to the feelings of other people that they ignore their own. However, this is not the same thing as sensing someone needs you from far away, or knowing in your gut something is wrong with your child who isn't even in your physical presence.

I don't think type or function usage explains away everything, there are still differences between males and females; however, I've seen NT females report things like they have that whole finger length thing going on that men are supposed to have which is connected to the male brain.

I really don't know how much basis there is for this, though some women are so T that I've noticed on-line that multiple people mistake them for being male. This is rare, but I've noticed a few times, and it was with T women. 

I think some things are cultural, other things are biological. I think believing everything is biological is a faulty way to think (for example, preferring certain looks tends to change by culture, even by generation) but on the other hand I think it's also kind of absurd to assert that everything is cultural. It's a mix of the two.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Arrow said:


> I always thought the "typical female" that society promoted most women as being, was thought to be some kind of SFJ stereotype.


Yes one of the stereotypical caricatures of women is being an SFJ nurturer...but women are pretty much equally also ExFPs. And from a standpoint of what is the epitome of a strong male in our culture - say a military leader or banker or quiet but logical and organized man - is ISTJ. The other male stereotype is the "bad guy" who is usually more easily represented as ESTP. However the ISTJ role is more prevalent, with a smaller percentage of "bad boys" being ESTPs.

There is evidence that men and women are truly more likely to have these types on MBTI tests. People always say Ns aren't as common, but ENFPs are actually just as common as ESFPs and ISFPs, and are usually women. Ten percent of the population are ENFPs. What is funny is that ENFJ, INFJ, and INFP are MUCH more rare, like only half as many or less. For some reason NFPs and SFJs are said to have some of the most successful marriages with one another, like 86% of SFJ-NFP marriages reporting having a happy relationship, and I would guess many of those are ENFPs (but more equally ESFJ and ISFJ) since INFPs only make up 4% of the population.

ESTPs are actually relatively rare, surprisingly, only about as common as INFPs, which is why it makes sense that men are seen as more likely to be xSTJ in the norm. 

However, one could argue that some of the "strong, silent types" are also ISTP.


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## StElmosDream (May 26, 2012)

fourtines said:


> Well all women have a thicker corpus callosum, which is why their two sides of the brain are more connected, and all women are not NFs. Women's intuition is not the same as Jungian intuition; Jungian intuition indicates a preference for going from theory to facts, and for abstract reasoning, not "just knowing" something is wrong with a loved one, from a distance, which I think any type can do, though some have said this is Ni presenting as "mysterious" in SFPs (which is the way I would have it personally) in the position of the tertiary or inferior, because it's a less understood function in SPs and takes on a more mystical character; Jung even talks about Se doms having very pagan-esque spiritual beliefs, which he refers to as primitive or archaic symbolic rites, etc.
> 
> I do agree that Fe gives one a greater ability to "read" others emotions in person, developed Fe helps one to sometimes have such a heightened awareness to the feelings of other people that they ignore their own. However, this is not the same thing as sensing someone needs you from far away, or knowing in your gut something is wrong with your child who isn't even in your physical presence.
> 
> I don't think type or function usage explains away everything, there are still differences between males and females; however, I've seen NT females report things like they have that whole finger length thing going on that men are supposed to have which is connected to the male brain.


Very true, to a point I can't help but wonder what is 'genetic bonding or empathic distress' felt from close connections and what represents trained instincts gained from life awareness or experience alone... bit tired now, may reflect on this more tomorrow or chalk it down to intangible insight some may know at some point in their life and others may notice subconsciously (seemingly predicting or noticing danger in advance).


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## Epherion (Aug 23, 2011)

cdesewell said:


> interesting fact: the highest IQ ever achieved was by a woman. Go feminism!


Marilyn vos savant? IQ: 190
William James Sidis IQ: 240-300

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_James_Sidis






fourtines said:


> Well all women have a thicker corpus callosum,


HA! lol, 


> •Myth: Women use both sides of their brain more symmetrically than men. The larger corpus callosum in women explains female intuition and the ability to "multitask" and tune in to emotions. Brizendene made this claim, as did stories in Parents' Magazine, the Daily Telegraph, the Ottawa Citizen, Cleveland's Plain Dealer, Elle magazine, the New York Times and many, many more.
> 
> •Fact. A meta-analysis of 49 studies found no significant sex differences in the size or shape of the corpus callosum. Lise Eliot says, " For the record: the corpus callosum does not differ between boys and girls."


http://www.ajr.org/Article.asp?id=5212


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Epherion said:


> Marilyn vos savant? IQ: 190
> William James Sidis IQ: 240-300
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_James_Sidis
> ...


I learned this at university, so your "ha lol" is kind of childish and misplaced, I didn't read it in a magazine.

I'll have to check your source to see if I even believe your source, as you'll forgive me for trusting my university professor of child development more than I trust some random person saying "lol" on the Intertardz.


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## Epherion (Aug 23, 2011)

fourtines said:


> I learned this at university, so your "ha lol" is kind of childish and misplaced, I didn't read it in a magazine.
> 
> I'll have to check your source to see if I even believe your source, as you'll forgive me for trusting my university professor of child development more than I trust some random person saying "lol" on the Intertardz.


Universities are often places of misinformation. You blind obedience to them is rater disturbing.
Also, "intertardz", i thought women were more mature.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Epherion said:


> Universities are often places of misinformation. You blind obedience to them is rater disturbing.
> Also, "intertardz", i thought women were more mature.


I don't think you're a good person to interact with. I don't have any kind of blind obedience to universities, far from it, I avoided being an academic (and this is ironic of you to say, since Lise Eliot, your source, is an academic!) 

You immediately came up to my post and said "Ha lol" instead of explaining your point of view, and directly followed this supposed lack of differences between males and females directly after posting that men have higher IQs than women...in the same post.

I think you're confused and biased. From what I understand about Lise Eliot, she actually admits there are gender-based brain differences but her book talks about how to overcome them by lessening societal stereotypes; some people believe her research is therefore biased, because while she admits there are gender-based brain differences she downplays them too much and goes on more about studies that can't be proven more than studies that can.

I'm used to encountering a lot of pseudo-information on line, especially from deeply mistrustful libertarian types who only trust articles posted in very limited sources such as _Reason_ or the _Cato Institute_, which never fails to strike me as ironic, seeing as that conservative Christians and oppressive Arabic Muslim societies do the same thing: only trust very limited sources of information. It doesn't make the information more true, in fact it can make it much more biased to a particular world view.

So yes, when a random person has a strangely confusing post, which includes the words "ha lol" linked to some random Internet blog, no, I don't necessarily think they're an unbiased source and will trust someone with a PhD who has made a life-long career out of educating children instead until I look further into the matter.

Using the word "Intertardz" doesn't make a person mature or immature (it's just a word) and there is no scientific basis for girls being more mature past the age of 18. Typically girls mature faster than boys between 11-16.

I find the overall tone of your posts so defensive and hostile that I wonder if you have some personal chip on your shoulder about sex differences.


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## Epherion (Aug 23, 2011)

fourtines said:


> I don't think you're a good person to interact with. I don't have any kind of blind obedience to universities, far from it, I avoided being an academic (and this is ironic of you to say, since Lise Eliot, your source, is an academic!)


From a previous thread, the sexism one, you admitted to having feminist sympathies. My reasoning was that this source would be more up your alley as it was constructed by two women one whom is a Women's studies professor. This means that this article would have more bearing on you. Lise Eliot is also a feminist as well. So not only does it have weight its also a feminist who says your stance on the corpus collosum is shite.



> You immediately came up to my post and said "Ha lol" instead of explaining your point of view, and directly followed this supposed lack of differences between males and females directly after posting that men have higher IQs than women...in the same post.


The Iq post was not for you, or can you not read the name in the quotes.



> I think you're confused and biased. From what I understand about Lise Eliot, she actually admits there are gender-based brain differences but her book talks about how to overcome them by lessening societal stereotypes; some people believe her research is therefore biased, because while she admits there are gender-based brain differences she downplays them too much and goes on more about studies that can't be proven more than studies that can.


Sounds to me like you are projecting.



> *I'm used to encountering a lot of pseudo-information on line*, especially from deeply *mistrustful libertarian *types who only trust articles posted in very limited sources such as _Reason_ or the _Cato Institute_, which never fails to strike me as ironic, seeing as that conservative Christians and oppressive Arabic Muslim societies do the same thing: only trust very limited sources of information. It doesn't make the information more true, in fact it can make it much more biased to a particular world view.


No shit, its the internet. Your reasoning?



> So yes, when a random person has a strangely confusing post, which includes the words "ha lol" linked to s*ome random Internet blog*, no, I don't necessarily think they're an unbiased source and* will trust someone with a PhD who has made a life-long career out of educating children* instead until I look further into the matter.


I used "ha, lol" because you believe something that has been proven inaccurate making your post sound like it was constructed emotionaly, but thats a given, given your type:ISFP. Two, its not a blog, its an article.
In other words you trust authority. 



> Using the word "Intertardz" doesn't make a person mature or immature (it's just a word) and there is no scientific basis for girls being more mature past the age of 18. Typically girls mature faster than boys between 11-16.


I was not talking about maturity in the sex differences. Just you using rater coarse terminology that makes you sound infantile.



> I find the overall tone of your posts so defensive and hostile that I wonder if you have some personal chip on your shoulder about sex differences.


Yes, only because liberal lunatics like you spread misinformation with out proper scientific backing and believe outdated myths further perpetuating sex based stereotypes.


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## Mr. Meepers (May 31, 2012)

This is a discussion ... let's not go to typism or name calling ... Okay ^__^ 
Let's also not got to sexism or any other "isms" or prejudices either
This is just an intellectual conversation for everyone involved to learn ^__^
Let's keep this civil *hugs* ^__^


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## JaySH (Jul 29, 2012)

Alright, I will not read through every post on here...I don't have the time or patience. The "you are sexist for saying..." comments are truly annoying to me. 

Men and women are different. Sorry...we are. There are women who display more masculine characteristics and vice versa...but, on avg, we are different. Many of our personality differences are due to biological chemistry/hormonal differences and that is just how it is. Anyone can argue this fact...but it won't change it. The effect of testosterone vs. estrogen has been studied and is very real. It leads to both physical and emotional differences. 

On the topic at hand... I can not that most famously intelligent people were men. Great inventions have often come from man. I could research articles and attach links to statistics but I believe most will agree with this. Obviously, the first name that comes to mind is Albert Einstein who's name has become synonymous with high levels of intelligence. That said, many could argue that societal forces limited a woman's ability to truly live up to her intellectual potential until the last 20 or so yrs...and, they'd be right, IMO. 

The claim that women are smarter than men probably stems from a couple different causes. My guesses would be:

1. Men are often more impulsive, especially when young, and do not always think before they act. Women are often more careful and sensible in their actions. Men tend to blindly defend their actions with ridiculous comments that are irrational, rather than own up to their carelessness...this could definitely be confused as a lack of intelligence when compared to the commonly more sensible female...as opposed to a stubbornness causing ignorant actions/outbursts.

2. Men are, on avg., physically stronger than women. The classic rebuttal to this statement is " but women are smarter", which is an understandable reaction. Your strength is _____, so ours must be ______. I don't believe it's accurate,nor do I believe saying men are smarter would be, but I can understand it's use as a defense.

3. Women tend to be more focused academically in school whereas men, on avg, are more easily distracted by partying, sports and women and, therefor, are not as well educated in the curriculum at the same given time as women. 



I had more but, what's the point, really. I agree with posts I read when perusing through reguarding different types of intelligence. Even if men or women typically score higher on IQ tests, that does not mean they would be smarter in all facets of intelligence. I do not agree that IQ tests have no merit. If 2 people each took 3 or 4 tests back to back and one scored higher in every test...it would be safe to assume that person has a greater ability to learn and retain information, as well as problem solve.

Really...does it matter though? Intelligence is not the be all end all of the human race. We are soooo much more than that and should not be so concerned with it..IMO.

To clarify, I do not think women are smarter than men...nor do I think men are smarter than women...we are different and use our intelligence in different manners....neither better nor worse...just different.


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## Shinji Mimura (Aug 1, 2012)

I think it is absolutely impossible to ever find any conclusive study that proves one gender is smarter than the other.


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## Mr. Meepers (May 31, 2012)

JaySH said:


> Men and women are different. Sorry...we are. There are women who display more masculine characteristics and vice versa...but, on avg, we are different. Many of our personality differences are due to biological chemistry/hormonal differences and that is just how it is. Anyone can argue this fact...but it won't change it. The effect of testosterone vs. estrogen has been studied and is very real. It leads to both physical and emotional differences.


I can not tell you whether you are correct or not, but I can say that we can not call these differences due to hormones a "fact" as science is still not "sure" this is true (let's neglect any philosophical discussion about the link between science and "truth" as that is outside the scope of this thread). At the very least, there in a neuroscientist at Stanford University that says the evidence does not support claims that men and women have innately different brains due to estrogen and testosterone (and if there is one, I would ask if the effects can be measurable from human experiences).

Anyway, here is a news article on the Stanford University's website about what I said above and the impact society (and the individual) plays on "intelligence" and on brain architecture.

Don't be fooled by the title (it seems very pro sex equality)
Is the female brain innately inferior? | The Clayman Institute for Gender Research


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## JaySH (Jul 29, 2012)

Mr. Meepers said:


> I can not tell you whether you are correct or not, but I can say that we can not call these differences due to hormones a "fact" as science is still not "sure" this is true (let's neglect any philosophical discussion about the link between science and "truth" as that is outside the scope of this thread). At the very least, there in a neuroscientist at Stanford University that says the evidence does not support claims that men and women have innately different brains due to estrogen and testosterone (and if there is one, I would ask if the effects can be measurable from human experiences).
> 
> Anyway, here is a news article on the Stanford University's website about what I said above and the impact society (and the individual) plays on "intelligence" and on brain architecture.
> 
> ...


I wasn't implying our brains were different, necessarily, but our emotional reaction, which I suppose is attributed to brain function, is based partially on the effect of testosterone/ estrogen. I will now have to look into this more tho..based on your comments. I hate speaking inaccurately. I suppose fact was a strong word to use but, as I've understood the studies I've seen, it is widely backed as such. Even women with more aggressive and "masculine" tendencies have often tested to have higher than normal testosterone levels. It also leads to abnormal facial hair growth in women, based on what I have read in the past and that men who act more "feminine" often have lower than avg testosterone and higher estrogen, I believe anyway. I will look into it as, again, I do not like talkin out my ass..  sorry, haven't read your link yet as I have to go to bed..son's first day of school tomorrow. But, I will! 

Still, the point of that comment from my post was to make clear women and men ARE different, IMO, and this was just one biological example. It was not meant to relate to the debate about intelligence. You'll notice I mention the role it plays in our differences in personalities, not intelligence and I started the following paragraph with " On the topic at hand..." There is a member on here and in this thread who seems to turn everything mentioned regarding gender differences into sexism. I was hoping to put that to bed before it began...you aren't helping that cause :tongue:. 

I do appreciate and respect your response. Thank you.


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## JaySH (Jul 29, 2012)

Mr. Meepers said:


> I can not tell you whether you are correct or not, but I can say that we can not call these differences due to hormones a "fact" as science is still not "sure" this is true (let's neglect any philosophical discussion about the link between science and "truth" as that is outside the scope of this thread). At the very least, there in a neuroscientist at Stanford University that says the evidence does not support claims that men and women have innately different brains due to estrogen and testosterone (and if there is one, I would ask if the effects can be measurable from human experiences).
> 
> Anyway, here is a news article on the Stanford University's website about what I said above and the impact society (and the individual) plays on "intelligence" and on brain architecture.
> 
> ...


I decided to read it anyway. It seems to back that it does have an effect on personality and expression...showing men became more aggressive who were already aggressive in nature when given more testosterone. Again, I think you may have misunderstood what I was saying regarding these hormones....I was in no way implying this had an effect on intelligence...just on emotional reaction/expression. The study also states testosterone is necessary in women to maintain libido...which is sexual desire...meaning there clearly is an effect on the brain. Just not one that would lead to one being more intelligent than another due to each's effect. 

[Gender Brain Myth #2: Women and men have different brains due to estrogen and testosteroneMany believe that “male” and “female” hormones differentially shape the brain, leading some to conclude that these hormonal differences cause men to be better leaders and thinkers. Although it is true that males generally have more testosterone, while females have more estrogen, men and women possess both hormones. These hormones perform other functions besides those related to reproduction; for instance, the male brain needs estrogen for normal brain development and function. *And testosterone is also important to women; for example, in the development and maintenance of libido*.
Although the popular press often touts the importance of testosterone to the behavior of men, this claim is also overstated. A 1996 study showed that even unnaturally large doses of testosterone did not alter the mood or behavior of normal men *(although it did exaggerate aggression for men who were already aggressive).*
Lastly, Parvizi stated that even if estrogen and testosterone did shape the brain in different ways, it is an unsubstantiated, logical leap to conclude that such differences cause, “…men to occupy top academic positions in the sciences and engineering or top positions of political or social power, while women are hopelessly ill-equipped for such offices.”]
The last paragraph is related to this thread and explains against a point I was not making. But, again, I do thank your post and appreciate greatly. This was an interesting read. I think you may have misunderstood me though.


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## Mr. Meepers (May 31, 2012)

JaySH said:


> I decided to read it anyway. It seems to back that it does have an effect on personality and expression...showing men became more aggressive who were already aggressive in nature when given more testosterone. Again, I think you may have misunderstood what I was saying regarding these hormones....I was in no way implying this had an effect on intelligence...just on emotional reaction/expression. The study also states testosterone is necessary in women to maintain libido...which is sexual desire...meaning there clearly is an effect on the brain. Just not one that would lead to one being more intelligent than another due to each's effect.
> 
> *[Gender Brain Myth #2: Women and men have different brains due to estrogen and testosterone*
> 
> ...



I meant that it does not necessarily mean that there are sex differences with behavior and intelligence (at least not coming from how the chemicals affect the brain). In basic chemistry, have you heard of something called a limiting factor? I'm talking about when you want to create a chemical reaction and you have, let's say two chemicals. Chemical X and Chemical Y ... Let's say Chemical X is the limiting factor, that means no matter how much Chemical Y you add you are not going to create more chemical reactions between chemicals X and Y because there is not enough chemical X to go around. ... If, instead, you reduce Chemical Y so much so that is can not react with all the Chemical Xs, then it becomes the limiting factor. The brain might be like that here, the brain *might* be more like the limiting factor, where it does not matter how much estrogen and testosterone you add (for "normal" adults) and both men and women have estrogen and testosterone ... but *abnormally* low amounts of the hormones can affect it more. To be fair, my analogy is not perfect because there are lots of chemicals in the brain and lots of different parts of the brain ... and the brain and body are ever changing.
Of course it is possible that because men and women have different levels of each hormone that, maybe, the male brain is more used to testosterone, while the female brain is more used to estrogen and, like a drug/medication, you need more of it for it to be effective.

And, I assume the this whole thread is only talking about normal male and normal females as we did not really discuss disorders that cause mental retardation (such as down syndrome) that, I believe men are more likely to get (I would have to look that up). Why? because we are only trying to talk about what are the differences between the majority of men and the majority of women (what we call "normal") and these are special cases. ... Since the article said that adding testosterone did not affect normal men, I assume word "aggressive" meant abnormally aggressive (otherwise the article would have contradicted itself). In which case, why are these men abnormally aggressive to begin with? And should we include them when we are talking about the differences between men's and women's behavior in general (usually between what is normal)? Or should we list them as a special case scenario?

I do not think the article was trying to say that men and women have different brains to our hormones, in fact, looking at the entire flow of the argument in the paragraph and the article and the statement "*even if* estrogen and testosterone did shape the brain in different ways" tells me that the neuroscientist is not so sure that it does cause differences in the brain.

So I would say that the article, as a whole did not support what you were saying ... but parts of it might ... but putting those parts back into the whole makes me think that the article was uncertain about whether our different levels of our sex hormones do cause different behaviors ... and it was more uncertain that it causes different types of intelligence.

The article as a whole seemed very much against saying that men and women have innately different intelligence and that men and women have innately different levels of each intelligence. ..... And, to me, it hinted at being against the idea that men and women have innately different behaviors. 

I did not think I misunderstood you (although I suppose I did a little) ... I took your whole argument to mean that we are innately different, but equal (which I already figured you believed from reading other posts that you have posted ^__^) ... (but the end of your post does say that men and women use their intelligence differently ... I suppose that does not necessarily mean that they have different intelligence, but I thought you could ave meant that .... and, if you did, it could have unintended consequences) ... Looking at "gender myth #3" and the last section of the article I posted, my stance is that we should be very, very careful before we proclaim that men and women innately (not biologically, due to the last section of the article and how our biology changes) act and think differently (not that you think they think differently, that is just my general stance).


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## JaySH (Jul 29, 2012)

Mr. Meepers said:


> I meant that it does not necessarily mean that there are sex differences with behavior and intelligence (at least not coming from how the chemicals affect the brain). In basic chemistry, have you heard of something called a limiting factor? I'm talking about when you want to create a chemical reaction and you have, let's say two chemicals. Chemical X and Chemical Y ... Let's say Chemical X is the limiting factor, that means no matter how much Chemical Y you add you are not going to create more chemical reactions between chemicals X and Y because there is not enough chemical X to go around. ... If, instead, you reduce Chemical Y so much so that is can not react with all the Chemical Xs, then it becomes the limiting factor. The brain might be like that here, the brain *might* be more like the limiting factor, where it does not matter how much estrogen and testosterone you add (for "normal" adults) and both men and women have estrogen and testosterone ... but *abnormally* low amounts of the hormones can affect it more. To be fair, my analogy is not perfect because there are lots of chemicals in the brain and lots of different parts of the brain ... and the brain and body are ever changing.
> Of course it is possible that because men and women have different levels of each hormone that, maybe, the male brain is more used to testosterone, while the female brain is more used to estrogen and, like a drug/medication, you need more of it for it to be effective.
> 
> And, I assume the this whole thread is only talking about normal male and normal females as we did not really discuss disorders that cause mental retardation (such as down syndrome) that, I believe men are more likely to get (I would have to look that up). Why? because we are only trying to talk about what are the differences between the majority of men and the majority of women (what we call "normal") and these are special cases. ... Since the article said that adding testosterone did not affect normal men, I assume word "aggressive" meant abnormally aggressive (otherwise the article would have contradicted itself). In which case, why are these men abnormally aggressive to begin with? And should we include them when we are talking about the differences between men's and women's behavior in general (usually between what is normal)? Or should we list them as a special case scenario?
> ...


I do think that, on avg, women and men do see things a little differently when we are speaking about subjective thinking/feeling. It is common to say "she thinks like a man" or "he is in touch with his feminine side". I do not think either one is superior...and I, myself, have been said to be in touch with my "feminine side", for which, I quickly react in the most masculine way possible...(I cry..Jk).

I grew up with mostly females and saw first hand how different our reactions were to the same situations...and I had very limited male influences. When speaking objectively, logically, we often saw things very similarly. As soon as it went to feelings...and why we had the feelings we did, well, there were often significant differences (except with my older sister who, ironically, tends to get along better with men than women).

There may not be a way to back it factually. It may or be a popular view ....but, it is mine. Me could argue it is much to do with societal influences but many of these differences date back to so long ago that they were present when e, as humans, we're living instinctually. There have always been "tomboys" and, though less commonly acknowledged, more feminine boys. Just because it is ne way typically doesn't mean it will always be. 

I will again have to read the article in its entirety. Though, I agree I did take the comment out of context, one could argue that the men who did not show differences were using self control and mind over matter to maintain the person they have come to be, regardless of the influence(s) testosterone had on them. In order for the study to have any bearing, they would need to not know they had been given anything, IMO, ....which would obviously be a violation of their rights.

We could go back and forth, and, I wouldn't mind as I respect your point of view, but I don't think my opinion will change. Again, I do not think one gender is superior to the other, nor do I believe we are very different but I do believe that, in avg, whether it be due to estrogen/testorene influence or not, women and men do see things a little differently, react to things a little differently and express emotions a little differently....and I think it's perfectly natural. We have penises, they have vaginas, we have masses of muscle in our chest...they have breasts..., they can get pregnant, we can't....clearly there are differences between us and I think it goes beyond physical. 

I will say, however, that in many older heterosexual couples the differences in reactions to, thoughts and feelings about similar situations seem to be more consistent between the man and woman. Maybe this is just due to the influence they've had on each other over the yrs...or maybe it is due to them not letting society rule who they are anymore and, without that, we aren't very, if at all, different. 

So...those are my thoughts...thus far...but, they are ever changing


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## Aegis (May 3, 2011)

I don't have a link to a source, but I remember reading that in the case of male vs female, males do indeed have higher IQs on average; however, intelligence is strongly correlated to how tall a person is. Taller people tend to be smarter on average and since males are taller on average, they also happen to be smarter on average. When you compare intelligence between males and females of the same height, the difference is statistically negligible.


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## JaySH (Jul 29, 2012)

Mr. Meepers said:


> Because it is sexy  .... :blushed: Oh wait, I didn't say anything .> *hides*
> 
> When my Mother was a kid, men thought they were smarter than woman ... that was only the generation before me ... we are striving for equality, but sometimes we overshoot and it becomes a swinging pendulum. ... And, not going to lie ... some men believe they are smarter than women ... I think part of it is because of society, where it feels like it is more socially acceptable to bash men than it is to bash women. I think that our sex roles in dating (men are the pursuers), an emphasis on dating strangers (where you usually only know the person by their looks), the fact that a lot of society seems to be attracted to the opposite sex (romantically and/or sexually) .... forces women to be approached by a disproportionate amount of confident, out going, and shallow men ... also a disproportionate amount of men that just want sex.So women maybe seeing a lot of men that they might look down on ... hence "stupid" (I think we tend to think the people we like to dislike are stupid)
> ... And, I think that adds to the "personal experience" of "men are stupid".
> ...


I don't know how I missed this nearly full page post of yours before but...I like most of what you said. I do, however, think there are major issues with double standards in terms of gender equality in relationships and have lived them. " you're the man so no big deal you work and I don't, but, you should do half the housework too because while youre at work I played with our son a whole lot instead if cleaning a bit...what..you worked 12 hrs on your feet on cement floor and think that's harder...doesn't excuse you. This isn't the 1920's Jay" me " you're absolutely right...so, GET A JOB!!!!"

" I need you to do the dishes and start the laundry cause I'm going out" me " you don't think you could have done at least some of this while I was at work...? " her " I'm not your slave or your bitch and it isn't my job just because I'm the woman" me "I didn't say it was....it is your job primarily because you have 8-12hrs, 6 days a week you're home and I am working to support us. And, on your first comments... funny...I was thinking the same"

Her " just because i'm the woman doesn't mean cleaning and laundry is my job only you sexist prick" me " I agree...just because I'm the man doesn't mean it's my sole responsibility to work and provide for you and our son" her " umm, yeah it does if you're a real man" me " does this stuff really make sense in your head?"

Me " I have to go see my family in ct this weekend..my moms sick, think you could just mow the front lawn?" her " that's a mans job, why would I?" 

And then..there's parental rights....we don't need to get into how unequal it is with the negative balance leaning far towards the man, though, it has definitely made headway...there's still quite a gap I between the respect and consideration fathers are given in relationship to mothers. 

Equality would be great but, in many/some cases, not just with gender, the goal seems more to make all negatives in relation to the repressed gender/race at least equal yet all areas in which they have an advantage to maintain as they always were. 

Some of it I like. I like the tradition of holding doors for the lady..yet, I actually enjoy doing it for many. I like getting a woman flowers and would never expect them. I like coming to the rescue of a female due to "an icky bug" ( not to say all women view them as such, or that all men don't, as I know many). 

Just my thoughts on it. 

And, to clarify, I've been in a relationship with a woman who worked full time and was very respectful of things being at least fairly equal (though she was a bit controlling), so, my examples above are not related to all women...just some..and the ones that used feminism in their defense while having huge double standards int terms of their expectations for men.


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

Aegis said:


> I don't have a link to a source, but I remember reading that in the case of male vs female, males do indeed have higher IQs on average; however, intelligence is strongly correlated to how tall a person is. Taller people tend to be smarter on average and since males are taller on average, they also happen to be smarter on average. When you compare intelligence between males and females of the same height, the difference is statistically negligible.


I don't buy it. Honestly, I think it's bullshit. Link the source or this midget gonna put a hex on you


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## Navi (Jul 8, 2012)

Aegis said:


> I don't have a link to a source, but I remember reading that in the case of male vs female, males do indeed have higher IQs on average; however, intelligence is strongly correlated to how tall a person is. Taller people tend to be smarter on average and since males are taller on average, they also happen to be smarter on average. When you compare intelligence between males and females of the same height, the difference is statistically negligible.



Oh dear. I am a tall girl and I also call BS. Either the claim is BS or the study is more likely than not illegitimate/inaccurate/not very scientific. Height has nothing to do with intelligence. 
The average IQs of nations such as China and Taiwan are higher than that of the West. 
And they are statistically shorter.


That really does not make any sense, nor is it even too plausible. 
And that's saying quite a bit, coming from a Ne-aux user.


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## JaySH (Jul 29, 2012)

Ningsta Kitty said:


> I don't buy it. Honestly, I think it's bullshit. Link the source or this midget gonna put a hex on you





Aegis said:


> I don't have a link to a source, but I remember reading that in the case of male vs female, males do indeed have higher IQs on average; however, intelligence is strongly correlated to how tall a person is. Taller people tend to be smarter on average and since males are taller on average, they also happen to be smarter on average. When you compare intelligence between males and females of the same height, the difference is statistically negligible.


I read something similar but it was a whole formula and was more for the level of crazy a female is...it was a whole formula for weight, breast size and height and basically said the shorter/skinnier to larger breast size vs the tall, thin and smaller breast the short big breasted would be off her rocker in comparison. 

Sounds logical, right ? :tongue:

In case it isn't obvious, I am being facetious. While I did hear something to the effect I mentioned, I gave it about as much credit as this "taller = smarter" BS. 

Albert Einstein was ony 5'9", which isn't very tall for a guy. 5" shorter than I am. Based on your logic, basketball players should also be geniuses...not to say some aren't or couldn't be, but they are average,intelligence wise, on average, from what I have seen.


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## Navi (Jul 8, 2012)

JaySH said:


> I read something similar but it was a whole formula and was more for the level of crazy a female is...it was a whole formula for weight, breast size and height and basically said the shorter/skinnier to larger breast size vs the tall, thin and smaller breast the short big breasted would be off her rocker in comparison.
> 
> Sounds logical, right ? :tongue:
> 
> ...



^ I was actually going to go into a long tangent about this, but you summarized it for me. So I'm not going to.

Really, what that dude says really uses barely any logic at all. 

But have an internet high five for calling it out.
From one fellow tall person to another. :tongue:


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## Mr. Meepers (May 31, 2012)

JaySH said:


> I do think that, on avg, women and men do see things a little differently when we are speaking about subjective thinking/feeling. It is common to say "she thinks like a man" or "he is in touch with his feminine side". I do not think either one is superior...and I, myself, have been said to be in touch with my "feminine side", for which, I quickly react in the most masculine way possible...(I cry..Jk).
> 
> I grew up with mostly females and saw first hand how different our reactions were to the same situations...and I had very limited male influences. When speaking objectively, logically, we often saw things very similarly. As soon as it went to feelings...and why we had the feelings we did, well, there were often significant differences (except with my older sister who, ironically, tends to get along better with men than women).
> 
> ...



I'm sorry, I hope I'm not pushing too far ... But my argument in not just a knowledge argument, but also a values argument ... and maybe I am approaching it the wrong way and I'm pretty sure you will agree with the value aspect.

My value aspect is that I think we focus too much on men and women being different and judging them differently ... and, at times, even trying to mold them because of certain physical aspects that they have ... I just think that we should focus more on the potential someone can be ... Man or woman, black or white, something or something else anyone can be anything and if a woman is acting how we expect a man to act ... or if a man is acting the way we think expect a woman to act ...then they should not be judged negatively in my opinion 

Personally, I would like to see less arbitrary expectations on people because of physical traits that may not have anything to do with who they are (okay, so a muscular person, even if they are not as strong as they look, you can assume that they are probably strong ... but I don't think it has to do with the character of a person)
And I would like more of our expectations to be on the character of a person ... have expectations of people because they are people of reasonable "intelligence"



JaySH said:


> I don't know how I missed this nearly full page post of yours before but...I like most of what you said. I do, however, think there are major issues with double standards in terms of gender equality in relationships and have lived them. " you're the man so no big deal you work and I don't, but, you should do half the housework too because while youre at work I played with our son a whole lot instead if cleaning a bit...what..you worked 12 hrs on your feet on cement floor and think that's harder...doesn't excuse you. This isn't the 1920's Jay" me " you're absolutely right...so, GET A JOB!!!!"
> 
> " I need you to do the dishes and start the laundry cause I'm going out" me " you don't think you could have done at least some of this while I was at work...? " her " I'm not your slave or your bitch and it isn't my job just because I'm the woman" me "I didn't say it was....it is your job primarily because you have 8-12hrs, 6 days a week you're home and I am working to support us. And, on your first comments... funny...I was thinking the same"
> 
> ...


Everyone is different and I like opening doors and lifting heavy objects to be the "big" strong guy too (In all fairness, I know there are plenty of women who are physically stronger than myself, but most people I know are no where even close ... and I have never met a woman who was close ... and I do expect, as the person with the brute strength, that I should take care of the chores that require brute strength, or is vastly easier for someone with brute strength ... I would say that is reasonable) ... I think it was @Ningsta Kitty that talked about masculine and feminine energy (on this thread?? ... by energy, I interpreted it to be certain personality traits, that is what I assume at least) and I think she had a good point. You (and I) may be "feminine" in some respects and "masculine" in other respects (Just to clarify - _*I*_, not necessarily anyone else I referenced, consider sex, gender, and masculine-feminine traits to be three different things, that may or may not be related, depending on the person ... sex is biology, gender is self identity, and masculine-feminine traits are two sets of personality traits that are deemed what the male sex and female sex "should" be, perhaps by historical standards, and if the traits are opposites then you can create a masculine-feminine spectrum) ... and that is okay ... I think there needs to be a lot of similarities in a relationship (such as values), but it is good that have someone who is the opposite of you in certain areas so they can "complete" you ... For instance, I would not think two more dominant personalities would get along very well in a relationship ... If you want to be a gentleman, you may want to be with someone who will accept your gentleman nature (or you maybe more borderline and would like to switch off where sometimes you are the gentle man and sometimes she is the gentlewoman ... or maybe just be gentle to each other XD ^__^)

But I do agree with you ... Personally, I don't like double standards, but I do like doing some of the things I am expected to do because I am a man ... I don't think I want them to be expected so much as I do them because I like doing them though (and I want to do them) ... And that is my take on it lol


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## Sapphyreopal5 (Jun 11, 2012)

Aegis said:


> I don't have a link to a source, but I remember reading that in the case of male vs female, males do indeed have higher IQs on average; however, intelligence is strongly correlated to how tall a person is. Taller people tend to be smarter on average and since males are taller on average, they also happen to be smarter on average. When you compare intelligence between males and females of the same height, the difference is statistically negligible.


Based on your oh so wise source, when shall we expect the impeding worldwide dictatorship operated by the genius members of the NBA?

*sarcasm*



Btw this is you trolling right?


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## Aegis (May 3, 2011)

Ningsta Kitty said:


> I don't buy it. Honestly, I think it's bullshit. Link the source or this midget gonna put a hex on you


Here's several studies:

http://personal.lse.ac.uk/kanazawa/pdfs/ajp2009.pdf

http://www.nber.org/papers/w12466.pdf?new_window=1

Genetic contributions to the association b... [Genes Brain Behav. 2006] - PubMed - NCBI (abstract only)

http://www.uam.es/personal_pdi/psicologia/pei/download/Lynn2004.pdf

http://www.charlesdarwinresearch.org/2006 Intell Jackson & Rushton.pdf

If you want more studies, you can check the lists of citations within the ones I linked.



Navi said:


> Oh dear. I am a tall girl and I also call BS. Either the claim is BS or the study is more likely than not illegitimate/inaccurate/not very scientific. Height has nothing to do with intelligence.
> The average IQs of nations such as China and Taiwan are higher than that of the West.
> And they are statistically shorter.
> 
> ...


The two factors are associated. One does not necessarily cause the other (more likely one or more underlying factors are responsible for both). As far as height goes, certain ethnic groups are indeed shorter than others; however, the researchers are only looking at one culture at a time. An Asian person who is above average height compared to other Asians would on average have a slightly higher chance of being smarter than his peers for example.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

Because they want to feel good about their identity.
Saying that women are smarter than men is as retarded as saying italians are smarter than japanese.
There is no basis outside of an identity level to even have the discussion.
Some like to drag science in with shady studies...

My group is better than your group is all it boil down to.
Then the rest is just rhetoric, propaganda, one ups and master suppression techniques. :-/


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## castigat (Aug 26, 2012)

How about: women are smarter in some things than men are, who make up for that by being equally smart in things they (women) aren't.
Hypothetically.


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## Mr. Meepers (May 31, 2012)

Sapphyreopal5 said:


> On top of this, I am asked to take out the trash frequently (everyone in the house is supposed to do this sometimes, but I think I do it most [and this is regardless of whether it's overflowing/heavy or not])... and I am expected to kill a spider or otherwise a creepy crawler of the sort whenever there is one running around (or sitting there) :laughing:



If you want, you can kill (or catch and release outside) spiders for me XD :tongue: ^__^ ... (I can pay you in compliments and gratitude )


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## Sapphyreopal5 (Jun 11, 2012)

Mr. Meepers said:


> If you want, you can kill (or catch and release outside) spiders for me XD :tongue: ^__^ ... (I can pay you in compliments and gratitude )


Lol my father is expected to do this for my mom sometimes although if my dad doesn't react right away or if he's not home, she asks me to do it XD


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## Valkyria (Aug 25, 2012)

Sapphyreopal5 said:


> Lol my father is expected to do this for my mom sometimes although if my dad doesn't react right away or if he's not home, she asks me to do it XD


My boyfriend expects me to get rid of all bugs.


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## Mr. Meepers (May 31, 2012)

@Sapphyreopal5 and @Valkyria are very smart ... you two know how to kill bugs ^__^

(but I'm smarter because I know how to runaway from those creatures with exoskeletons of DOOM ... DOOOOOOOM!!!!) :tongue:
//jk but as long as you two kill all the bugs you can be whatever you want  ... bugs are scary  ... especially computer and website bugs :crazy:


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## Athesis (Sep 2, 2012)

Being a really intelligent, but lonely guy, I realize that more so than intelligence, most women look for confidence, pre-selection, attractiveness and security in a guy. Or so it seems. Maybe I'm not as smart as I think I am


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## Death Persuades (Feb 17, 2012)

I came here expecting an article... I sadly walk away. :sad:


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## Ed S (Jul 27, 2012)

This is definitely an interesting subject. When it comes to differences between genders it's so hard to tell where society ends and the biological begins, furthermore there can be many chemical differences among people of the same sex. So it's so hard to quantify something like this in any objective way. I have certain views that are only opinion. Women could be viewed as "smarter" in many ways. But what if since the beginning of humans women had always been stronger physically than men. Would they still be viewed as the nurturing one of the two genders or would they be really hardcore like black widows and just kill the men after they got what they needed. More likely, it would be just the way it is with women in the the role men fill now with a lot of little funny differences. I would say that both genders have distinct advantages over the other. Some stereotypes are true and some are just societal, but it's so challenging to determine which, this is why it's so interesting studying other cultures. I guess what I'm saying is who the hell knows.


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## JaySH (Jul 29, 2012)

josue0098 said:


> I came here expecting an article... I sadly walk away. :sad:


Read through the thread. There are links to articlea within posts and posts that might as well be articlea (my own included). 

Beyond articles you have posts from different points of view...personally find that more "readworthy" than most articles.


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## Mr. Meepers (May 31, 2012)

Someone showed me some interesting radio shows ^__^

http://personalitycafe.com/debate-f...ists-campaign-mens-rights-19.html#post2941367

The Gender Trap, Part 1 | Ideas with Paul Kennedy | CBC Radio

The Gender Trap, Part 2 | Ideas with Paul Kennedy | CBC Radio


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## Dylio (Jul 4, 2011)

disasterbunny said:


> psst don't tell anyone... I think they found the way around male supremacy centuries ago. I think they rule the world from our bedrooms...


*Kitchens, not bedrooms.


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## Masked_Fragments (Apr 13, 2012)

I don't really think either gender is smarter than the other. Now, can some people (regardless of gender) have higher intelligence than another? Probably, but only on certain aspects.


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## Sapphyreopal5 (Jun 11, 2012)

Dylio said:


> *Kitchens, not bedrooms.


Why not both? :wink:


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