# INTP versus ISTP



## Functianalyst (Jul 23, 2009)

Ingenue said:


> Actually, I'm not sure if I'm clear on the exact difference between Ne and Ni.
> 
> I am certain that I lead with my Ti. I do utilize some form of intuition after that, but I'm still a little unsure as to which one. As far as how I use it, I like thinking of new ways to view things, new knowledge paradigms that can be applied to what we know already, or inducing shifts in our moral thinking. And I like sharing my ideas.


If these thoughts are the result of interacting with the world and are not based on thoughts when alone, it's Ne.


Ingenue said:


> I get the impression that Ni users are more private with their ideas, and more critical/skeptical rather than creative. I also get the impression that Ni users don't like describing things in language, because it's a kind of confining paradigm. However, I keep defining what Ni is through what it is not. Any clarification would be helpful.


Very insightful Ingenue.


Ingenue said:


> I'm toying with the possibility that I'm an ISTP with Schizoid Personality Disorder. lol. But seriously, I have been told in the past that I am "aloof, cold, and indifferent." I wouldn't say this applies now.


This is what irked me about alluding to dom/tert. Why do you believe to be unhealthy just because you do not know your type for sure. That makes no sense at all. Besides I am not sure why people are correlating certain personality disorders with types. I know that Dave Kelley of P-TYPES did it years ago, but there is no conclusive reasons, just his theory.


Ingenue said:


> This makes me wonder whether MBTI takes into account people's development over time. For example, can people shift from, say, ISTP to INTP as they mature? I imagine it is unlikely between types with vastly different cognitive functions, but I can see how Ni could slowly evolve into Ne, or (especially) how Se could evolve into Si.
> 
> I feel like I used to be an ISTP at some earlier part in my life.
> 
> Or maybe I'm just an unintelligent INTP. How I suck at life then. At least I still look good. :tongue:


No you do not change types, you merely develop your inferior functions. I don't see where the two would be very different until their 20's. After they enter their 30's they develop their tertiary which makes the distinction more clear. It is very easy to mistaken yourself for one or the other. As I referred to the look a-like descriptions earlier in the thread, they both dominate with Ti, and Se or Ne are both extraverted perceiving functions used to take in information. 

Se and Ne both seek possibilities, the difference being that Se users consider possibilities for actions to take and Ne only for possibilities to be considered. However that is not to say that either are incapable of doing the other. Ni and Ne are not the same so do not evolve into one or the other. Ni and Si are similar because they both are used to create images and impressions. However INTP and ISTP do not depend on the two functions as their tertiaries since they both use Ne and Se. Again it's natural to consider yourself ISTP and you may prefer SP as your secondary temperament. Jung and van der Hoop showed very little difference between the two types. But if you are quite sure that you dominate with Ti, then you're half way there.


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## Ingenue (Jul 16, 2010)

Actually, I'm really, really prone to disagree with your statement that we cannot change types over a lifetime. And this is where I think the MBTI system has a fundamental flaw, or at least a missing component--that its underlying assumption is that people ("people" as in the cumulate of many individuals) are static personalities. 

On the other hand, you can look at it from another perspective: that MBTI takes the averages of people. So while the average is constant, individuals can be in flux.

I just wish there were a more refined system to consider micro-changes in a person's cognitive functions, like some kind of fusion of cognitive theory and developmental psychology.


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## Ingenue (Jul 16, 2010)

I think I just had one of those "aha!" moments. lol

I get it now. Thank you, Functionanalyst. You've inadvertently solved what I've been agonizing over the past couple nights.

I'm reminded of a George Bernard Shaw quote, so if this sounds familiar, I'm totally stealing from him. 

An Ni person would ask why...
An Ne person would ask, why not?

I know my type now, without question.


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## Functianalyst (Jul 23, 2009)

Ingenue said:


> Actually, I'm really, really prone to disagree with your statement that we cannot change types over a lifetime. And this is where I think the MBTI system has a fundamental flaw, or at least a missing component--that its underlying assumption is that people ("people" as in the cumulate of many individuals) are static personalities.
> 
> On the other hand, you can look at it from another perspective: that MBTI takes the averages of people. So while the average is constant, individuals can be in flux.
> 
> I just wish there were a more refined system to consider micro-changes in a person's cognitive functions, like some kind of fusion of cognitive theory and developmental psychology.


MBTI implies you can change type and that many are born with a tabula-rasa. It's Jung that says different. How would an inroverting function turn to an extraverting one? Ne and Ni have no more in common that Si and Se, except in name.


Ingenue said:


> I think I just had one of those "aha!" moments. lol
> 
> I get it now. Thank you, Functionanalyst. You've inadvertently solved what I've been agonizing over the past couple nights.
> 
> ...


Not sure what you mean by inadvertent but Ne is an experiential tool that can only work while the user is active. Ni works completely different in that as stated earlier, both Ni and Si conjures images and impressions that have one thing at a time consideration.


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