# Why Do NTs Pick On Us?



## Winegums

I've found that NTs love to troll people and play with their feelings for fun and amusement. As if seeing someone upset is a positive thing to them. Then when they're told that they're hurting someone's feelings they can't be bothered to care, saying something along the lines of, "You're too sensitive, grow up and stop crying". Mean while the NF is crushed and is wondering why someone would decide to pick on them. Or how someone could be so mean without a good reason. 

Remember NTs just because you aren't taking something seriously that doesn't mean that the other person isn't.


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## Morpheus83

That's how NTs flirt with NFs :tongue: Remember the guy who used to pull your hair and call you names back in grade school? He had a crush on you.


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## michaelthemessiah

Morpheus83 said:


> That's how NTs flirt with NFs :tongue: Remember the guy who used to pull your hair and call you names back in grade school? He had a crush on you.


very true XDD


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## CitricBoxer

Because constantly going at each others' throats gets boring after a while.


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## TuesdaysChild

I can kinda see where they're coming from, though. One setback to be feeling-oriented is the extreme dislike of negative feeling and the avoidance of it at all costs. I think when feelers become "irrational" (because we're not by definition irrational, but we can get that way) is rooted in the avoidance of bad feelings. And I notice a lot of lies and manipulation comes into play when feelers are avoiding negative emotion. I'm working on, and mostly succeeding, at being more direct about things even if it makes me look ridiculous or makes me uncomfortable. On my end, it's worked out quite well, and in some cases not quite so well, but at least I know where I stand. But I notice with other feelers, I can't always get a straight answer.... and then I start feeling like I don't know what's real anymore. I'm feeling a bit of the frustration when someone's dancing around their feelings or mine leaving me dangling with ambiguity and no actual answers.

But hey, I still love us.


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## hellebore

Sometimes I pick on them. I befriended an INTP literally through arguing.

Although I think we had a "for real" argument recently.


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## Eggsies

Because we're fucking babies.


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## Alpha_Orionis

Well i do not think we pick on the F types, INTJ are not bullies(i think). I, for example love to mess with F types minds, just to see their reaction to certain situations, i guess that would make me a psychological bully.


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## 1yesman9

Winegums said:


> I've found that NTs love to troll people and play with their feelings for fun and amusement. As if seeing someone upset is a positive thing to them. Then when they're told that they're hurting someone's feelings they can't be bothered to care, saying something along the lines of, "You're too sensitive, grow up and stop crying". Mean while the NF is crushed and is wondering why someone would decide to pick on them. Or how someone could be so mean without a good reason.
> 
> Remember NTs just because you aren't taking something seriously that doesn't mean that the other person isn't.


And just because the other person is taking something seriously doesn't mean I find it reasonable that they do.

If the NT want's to preserve the relationship, then he can subject himself to what and what not offends a person, if he doesn't, then he won't. Lets not paint it as fundamentally bad, it's a matter of preferences.


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## Sangmu

Rejected by one too many INFP-hawt-babe.


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## jcatenaci

Hmm, I don't know. Some of my fellow NF's may be a touch too sensitive. Yeah, NT's can seem like they're being "bullies" when they tease NF's about being touchy-feeley, but the one's who do that often only do it because it will get a rise out of certain sensitive NF's. Look, it's the Internet, the modern Wild West. Ya gotta be tough out here, because this world ain't nice. You ever seen 4chan? How about vintage Encyclopeadia Drammatica? Now those places are/were just plain mean.

As for the dismissing of feeling over thinking, I think that's just teenagers self-pleasuring to their "kewl" MBTI types which are totally into science, and are far more rational than all the others 12 types, and stuff. :laughing: Most NT's are self aware enough to know that pragmatic thinking is only one of many ways to approach a problem, and that the NF's penchant for humanistic thinking is just another way.

My 2 cents, anyway.


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## Deity

Because NT's know their time is running short. The great overthrow shall be happening soon.
I have an ENTP friend that I am catching up with tomorrow.
_He's next._


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## Stendhal

11thNight said:


> Though a fair amount of NTs do express appreciation for NFs, it also seems like a fair amount of NTs focus mainly on the negative aspects of our feeling nature and view it as inferior to their thinking nature. Why? :'(


Because to be honest, we can be annoying with gushing emotions sometimes. Sorry if this sounds harsh


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## Winegums

Stendhal said:


> Because to be honest, we can be annoying with gushing emotions sometimes. Sorry if this sounds harsh


We're NFs, we're supposed to gush with emotion!


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## Stendhal

Winegums said:


> We're NFs, we're supposed to gush with emotion!


And NTs are supposed to get cranky about it. So the dialectic continues.


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## aendern

I don't think "feeling" is what NTs complain about.

But rather, Fi.

Fi just seems very useless. It's not awesome like Ti, and it's not useful like Fe or Te.

What is Fi even good for?


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## Winegums

emberfly said:


> I don't think "feeling" is what NTs complain about.
> 
> But rather, Fi.
> 
> Fi just seems very useless. It's not awesome like Ti, and it's not useful like Fe or Te.
> 
> What is Fi even good for?


Fi adds internal strength and drive, especially for ISTJ and INTJ. Fi rejects the opposing ideas and creates strong personal causes and agendas. It acts as something to direct the IXTJ's powerful Te, which is why IXTJs have made such an impact on the world. 

Fi is not useless.


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## Polk3456

finesthour said:


> @MNiS
> 
> 
> It's called a "joke."


Just because it's a joke doesn't mean it doesn't hurt, asshole.


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## Polk3456

Feeling types deserve more respect than Thinking types give them. A lot of NTs are natural bullies anyway, it's just in their nature. A lot of that hatred comes from self- hatred. I am a bully myself, and I can't say that I'm much better then my brethren. But I CAN say that I don't pick on feeling types. I only do that to other thinking types.


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## Jennywocky

T.B.D.A said:


> Feeling types deserve more respect than Thinking types give them. A lot of NTs are natural bullies anyway, it's just in their nature. A lot of that hatred comes from self- hatred. I am a bully myself, and I can't say that I'm much better then my brethren. But I CAN say that I don't pick on feeling types. I only do that to other thinking types.


Yeah, it's kind of ironic, but once I made the "shift" and learned how to respect other approaches, I actually got more annoyed with hyperrational people than with emotional people. I think it might be because the hyperrationalism is too close to home for me.


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## Grandmaster Yoda

Neverontime said:


> I wouldn't exactly call it 'picking on', but they often project their inferior feeling function onto nf's. It's the part of themselves which their ego wants to deny exists, in order to justify and validate it's own position.


Would you consider picking on you if I disagree with your presumptions about my inner reality?


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## Polk3456

Jennywocky said:


> T.B.D.A said:
> 
> 
> 
> Feeling types deserve more respect than Thinking types give them. A lot of NTs are natural bullies anyway, it's just in their nature. A lot of that hatred comes from self- hatred. I am a bully myself, and I can't say that I'm much better then my brethren. But I CAN say that I don't pick on feeling types. I only do that to other thinking types.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, it's kind of ironic, but once I made the "shift" and learned how to respect other approaches, I actually got more annoyed with hyperrational people than with emotional people. I think it might be because the hyperrationalism is too close to home for me.
Click to expand...

Self-hatred is always going to be a constant variable in our lives, haha.


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## Snakecharmer

I've never been picked on by an NT.

But then, I thought I was an INTP for four years, and I use a LOT of Ti. 

I'm not sensitive - never have been. I think that's an NF stereotype.

*shrugs*


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## nevermore

jcatenaci said:


> *As for the dismissing of feeling over thinking, I think that's just teenagers self-pleasuring to their "kewl" MBTI types which are totally into science, and are far more rational than all the others 12 types, and stuff.* :laughing:.


Yeah, I agree - I think a lot of them are even NFs with a strange fetishistic worship for "science" and "rationality" (or the idea of rationality anyway). Both them and the NTs who do this are just using their 'type' to boost their fragile egos. Ironically they would have been fine if they'd just done what they'd wanted to do, said what they'd wanted to say...and probably be percieved better too since they wouldn't be suppressing their F side.

Ironically not doing this makes them both the most emotionally ruled (read: irrational and insecure) of the bunch...and not in a good way...

Funny how running from the F part of ourselves tends not to make us stronger but weaker all around.


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## Val37

I don't think they're picking on us...unless I'm missing something here? 

I think they're just being who they are. According to them, what good is a noggin if you don't use it? 

And according to us, a heart can do more than just beat and pump blood. 

I happen to like NTs and how they approach the world and problems, though some of them aren't the most gracious creatures around. They sound pretty level-headed. I only know one INTJ for sure, who is a family member, and I just love having conversations with her! She always uses her T, and while my first course of action is to always fall on my F, I've learned to develop my T through her. And that's a good thing too, because I feel more balanced. It's not so turbulent inside anymore. While I still feel intensely about most things, it is more controlled and tightly focused now.


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## Kynx

Grandmaster Yoda said:


> Would you consider picking on you if I disagree with your presumptions about my inner reality?


No, I don't consider it being picked on, why would I?


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## johnnyyukon

haha, oh man, I just came here to pick on someone.

Too many to choose from!!!

Why, OP?

A mountain climber climbs a mountain because it is there.


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## Deejaz

T.B.D.A said:


> @MNiS
> 
> 
> It's called a "joke."
> 
> 
> 
> Just because it's a joke doesn't mean it doesn't hurt, asshole.
Click to expand...

HAA :laughing: oh wow.


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## Grandmaster Yoda

Neverontime said:


> No, I don't consider it being picked on, why would I?


You have multiple reasons to be angry. Of 27 reasons I've computed none appear to be likely causes.


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## Kynx

Grandmaster Yoda said:


> You have multiple reasons to be angry. Of 27 reasons I've computed none appear to be likely causes.


OK 
Soo... Did you have a point? 

I could pretend to feel picked on, if that would help? 

:crying: The NTs are picking on me because I'm more cleverer *sniff* 


:happy:


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## Sygma

Ramza Beoulve said:


> We never pick on you. You feel too much. It's paranoid.


The opposite is also true. I knew one NT that couldn't stand playful humor at some point and feeled attacked 24/7. Needless to say, communication was almost impossible :sad:


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## Vayne

Sygma said:


> The opposite is also true. I knew one NT that couldn't stand playful humor at some point and feeled attacked 24/7. Needless to say, communication was almost impossible :sad:


I can't stand them too. 
i'm quite the opposite.
My friend told me i'm being socially bullied while i never realized it. 
I know they are ignoring me, but i don't give a fuck. :/


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## johnnyyukon

Jennywocky said:


> Yeah, it's kind of ironic, but once I made the "shift" and learned how to respect other approaches, I actually got more annoyed with hyperrational people than with emotional people. I think it might be because the hyperrationalism is too close to home for me.


I've noticed it's difficult to tell if someone online is getting emotional, ha, needless to say. 

But IRL, as I've matured, I can notice pretty easily if someone is too sensitive. 

As an Entp, I'll admit, if I'm in a large social situation, there's just too much to process to consider everyone's feelings, so I just stay in my own orbit and resort to a particular wisecracking, snarky personality, and sometimes more sensitive folks get in the crossfire.


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## VinnieBob

I luvs yuze guys and would never pick on youse all


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## Polk3456

johnnyyukon said:


> Jennywocky said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, it's kind of ironic, but once I made the "shift" and learned how to respect other approaches, I actually got more annoyed with hyperrational people than with emotional people. I think it might be because the hyperrationalism is too close to home for me.
> 
> 
> 
> I've noticed it's difficult to tell if someone online is getting emotional, ha, needless to say.
> 
> But IRL, as I've matured, I can notice pretty easily if someone is too sensitive.
> 
> As an Entp, I'll admit, if I'm in a large social situation, there's just too much to process to consider everyone's feelings, so I just stay in my own orbit and resort to a particular wisecracking, snarky personality, and sometimes more sensitive folks get in the crossfire.
Click to expand...

This reinforces the abrasive ENTP stereotype. But we're two different types of people, I suppose.


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## Kyusaku

Picking on NTs isn't hard, in fact, most banned members are actually NTs which shows a serious anger management issue with you guys. NFs know how to lay low enough and not get into trouble, yet still have a nasty bite in store.


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## FearAndTrembling

Kyusaku said:


> Picking on NTs isn't hard, in fact, most banned members are actually NTs which shows a serious anger management issue with you guys. NFs know how to lay low enough and not get into trouble, yet still have a nasty bite in store.


INTJ particularly. And they were also bullied more than any other type at my school. ENTJ, ENTP, and even INTP are somewhat social types, and have more fluidity.


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## Kyusaku

FearAndTrembling said:


> INTJ particularly. And they were also bullied more than any other type at my school. ENTJ, ENTP, and even INTP are somewhat social types, and have more fluidity.


INTJ are the definition of outsiders and queers, in middle school and high school at least. They are oddballs, mysteries, so they get teased a lot. INTPs less so, they are nerdy and quirky but they are able to blend well. ENTPs and ENTJs are resourceful and driven, they are not the most obvious choices. Everyone has a breaking point, but you don't want to make some people snap, ESTPs and ENTJs are probably on top of my list of those.


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## kannbrown

FearAndTrembling said:


> INTJ particularly. And they were also bullied more than any other type at my school. ENTJ, ENTP, and even INTP are somewhat social types, and have more fluidity.


As an INTP, I'd say I'm not more 'social' than other types, but more able to blend in, when that's what I want to do. Definitely more fluid, or laid back about things. Basically, also, I don't really care a lot what people think, or notice if they aren't hanging out with me. So, unless they are in my face yelling at me, or getting physical, I'm likely to not notice the bullying. (Which probably bores the bullies, who move on to more responsive targets.) I was less bullied as much as totally invisible and ignored in school...though I guess some may view that as a form of being bullied.. I dunno.. But that was really fine by me, so I guess it worked out all around.

I don't think I am mean to NF's, though when I was younger and they asked what I thought about something, I'd tell them, and wasn't necessarily very tactful about it. I'm better about that now that I figured out that when people ask what I think about something, they usually don't really want to know, you know, what I THINK about something.


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## Notus Asphodelus

Morpheus83 said:


> That's how NTs flirt with NFs :tongue: Remember the guy who used to pull your hair and call you names back in grade school? He had a crush on you.


You are quite right. It is like having a candlelight dinner.


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## nO_d3N1AL

I believe it's to do with the decision-making process. For us NTs, it's usually easy to express a rational reason why we do what we do, whereas for NFs (especially NFPs) this is not the case. Fi dom/aux do things which, to everyone else, seem totally irrational and without reason. This inability to understand how a conclusion/decision was reached using logic frustrates us. I feel that NFs are great despite this though - very "human". I respect that.


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## Notus Asphodelus

Geronimo.Faceplant said:


> I think this might be a guy thing. Not an NT thing.


Actually some women do that too.. And children and cats. Especially cats.


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## Metalize

The ones that aren't automatons would not.

And who wants to be in any kind of a relationship with an emotionally retarded robot, anyway?

(Not to say all INTPs are, just the unhealthy ones.)


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## Kynx

emberfly said:


> I don't think "feeling" is what NTs complain about.
> 
> But rather, Fi.
> 
> Fi just seems very useless. It's not awesome like Ti, and it's not useful like Fe or Te.
> 
> What is Fi even good for?


Mostly, it's only good for sex. 

Which admittedly, isn't the most useful natural ability, but someone's gotta have it. It's a burden really.....


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## Geonerd

I think we NTs are natural experimenters so that we like to get reactions out of people. It is a lot easier to get a reaction out of feeler than a thinker. I will say, most healthy NTs are not like that. I feel like unhealthy ones like to screw with people more. I hate that some NTs out there seem to think that they are "smarter" than everyone else just because of the theoretical thinking. I find most people are smart, just in different ways. I might be able to have a long theoretical conversation about a scientific topic but I couldn't look under a car's hood and figure out why a car is making a weird noise. I can be so theoretical that I miss the obvious solid thing in front of me. I am absolutely terrible at rote memorization and have a hard time sitting still and listening.

Most of my friends, my mom, and brother are feelers and I respect their opinions and way they process life. It can be foreign to me though to process life through emotions and I know that I have to tread lightly around some of them because they take something completely benign in my mind as personal. Some NTs know this and instead of tread lightly, screw with their mind instead.


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## nichya

It is okay we will hug them till they catch our emotions :3


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## aendern

Neverontime said:


> Mostly, it's only good for sex.
> 
> Which admittedly, isn't the most useful natural ability, but someone's gotta have it. It's a burden really.....


:crazy:

That was a good answer.



Geonerd said:


> I think we NTs are natural experimenters so that we like to get reactions out of people. It is a lot easier to get a reaction out of feeler than a thinker. I will say, most healthy NTs are not like that. I feel like unhealthy ones like to screw with people more. I hate that some NTs out there seem to think that they are "smarter" than everyone else just because of the theoretical thinking. I find most people are smart, just in different ways. I might be able to have a long theoretical conversation about a scientific topic but I couldn't look under a car's hood and figure out why a car is making a weird noise. I can be so theoretical that I miss the obvious solid thing in front of me. I am absolutely terrible at rote memorization and have a hard time sitting still and listening.
> 
> Most of my friends, my mom, and brother are feelers and I respect their opinions and way they process life. It can be foreign to me though to process life through emotions and I know that I have to tread lightly around some of them because they take something completely benign in my mind as personal. Some NTs know this and instead of tread lightly, screw with their mind instead.


NTs grow up with a natural bias about how smart they are since the school system measures only their version of intelligence. It doesn't care about kinesthetic intelligence or artistic intelligence or anything normal like that.

But at the same time, sometimes the school doesn't even care about NT intelligence -- sometimes NTs get thrown under the bus by teachers for not being more SJ.

I have especially seen this happen to NTPs.

I think in some respects, while "NTs" are always stereotyped as being good in school, it seems to me that NTPs are usually not [well-suited for school]. At least not suited for _American public school_. Their natural curiosity is frowned upon and distracts from the teacher's authoritative control. And teachers hate that.

ALSO, NTPs have a huge tendancy to go over the teacher's head when asking questions (by this I mean asking questions that the teacher can't answer due to lack of knowledge in the field), which is really the easiest way to make a teacher hate you.

NTPs never learn. :crazy:


(I'm not trying to say that NTPs aren't smart as shit, just that they aren't so good at faking SJ-ness)


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## inthesnowman

emberfly said:


> :crazy:
> 
> That was a good answer.
> 
> 
> 
> NTs grow up with a natural bias about how smart they are since the school system measures only their version of intelligence. It doesn't care about kinesthetic intelligence or artistic intelligence or anything normal like that.
> 
> But at the same time, sometimes the school doesn't even care about NT intelligence -- sometimes NTs get thrown under the bus by teachers for not being more SJ.
> 
> I have especially seen this happen to NTPs.
> 
> I think in some respects, while "NTs" are always stereotyped as being good in school, it seems to me that NTPs are usually not [well-suited for school]. At least not suited for _American public school_. Their natural curiosity is frowned upon and distracts from the teacher's authoritative control. And teachers hate that.
> 
> ALSO, NTPs have a huge tendancy to go over the teacher's head when asking questions (by this I mean asking questions that the teacher can't answer due to lack of knowledge in the field), which is really the easiest way to make a teacher hate you.
> 
> NTPs never learn. :crazy:
> 
> 
> (I'm not trying to say that NTPs aren't smart as shit, just that they aren't so good at faking SJ-ness)


Never read a more accurate representation of my time in school. I had 2 teachers that saw something in me, and the rest would ignore my questions and say I was off topic or that it wasn't important. No one acknowledged that anything I had to say was valuable, and I eventually just gave them a big fuck you and stopped doing anything at all. School is not a pleasant place for NTs, especially not for NTPs.


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## Geonerd

emberfly said:


> :crazy:
> 
> That was a good answer.
> 
> 
> 
> But at the same time, sometimes the school doesn't even care about NT intelligence -- sometimes NTs get thrown under the bus by teachers for not being more SJ.
> 
> I have especially seen this happen to NTPs.
> 
> I think in some respects, while "NTs" are always stereotyped as being good in school, it seems to me that NTPs are usually not [well-suited for school]. At least not suited for _American public school_. Their natural curiosity is frowned upon and distracts from the teacher's authoritative control. And teachers hate that.
> 
> ALSO, NTPs have a huge tendancy to go over the teacher's head when asking questions (by this I mean asking questions that the teacher can't answer due to lack of knowledge in the field), which is really the easiest way to make a teacher hate you.
> 
> NTPs never learn. :crazy:
> 
> 
> (I'm not trying to say that NTPs aren't smart as shit, just that they aren't so good at faking SJ-ness)


I agree whole heartedly on this. I never really put my finger on it while I was in school but I am experiencing it now through the eyes of my INTP son. I got put in the lowest math class because I was the last person to be able to do the multiplication table in less than a timed amount in 5th grade. I always tested off the charts in math on standardized tests. In 6th grade my math teacher recognized that rote memorization was the problem and put me in advanced. I stayed in honors until I graduated high school. My son is going through the same thing with memorizing the multiplication table. It is making him feel dumb in class. The funny thing is he is always double checking what his teacher tells him in class because, and I quote "She can't possibly know everything so I want to make sure it is right".

I always did the best in classes that I could stretch my NT. The funny thing is I always got the award at the end of the year for being the best student in my grade in religion class (I went to a Catholic high school). I am not particularly religious (ENTPs are always skeptics) but the class was essentially interpreting the meaning behind stories in the bible since Catholics are not as literal about the bible but recognize it as a tool to try to understand. I was encouraged to debate the meaning and was really in my element in that class.


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## aendern

Geonerd said:


> The funny thing is I always got the award at the end of the year for being the best student in my grade in religion class (I went to a Catholic high school). I am not particularly religious (ENTPs are always skeptics) but the class was essentially interpreting the meaning behind stories in the bible since Catholics are not as literal about the bible but recognize it as a tool to try to understand. I was encouraged to debate the meaning and was really in my element in that class.


This is why I always loved English class )


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## kannbrown

Yes, you would think that NT would be comfortable in academia, but, especially in lower grades, I didn't find that to be at all true. As an INTP, I had some teachers who absolutely loved me and most, who seemed to do their best to ignore me. I got 'punished' for finishing things early by getting more of the same exact thing of things I found easy. I always asked questions that teachers didn't like, were viewed as off-topic, etc. I always felt that, especially in the current 'teach to the test' view of completing rote assignments and answering set test questions and memorization were suited to another form of intelligence than mine.

I did very well in religion classes with open minded professors and... less so in Catechism class, where, once again, there was a lot of memorized creeds and only one right answer, where I was actually told (after I was pointing out the similarities between Jonah and Pinocchio, and Balam and the Donkey and the Bremen Town Musicians) that I 'think too much.'


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## Mercutio

Geronimo.Faceplant said:


> I think this might be a guy thing. Not an NT thing.


Rats. And I was so sure I was a girl


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## inthesnowman

Mercutio said:


> Hostility is our form of affection(sometimes)
> 
> And also we may just want someone to share in our thoughtful cynicism and it becomes frustrating when we can't drag you down to our level and you persist in your ridiculous optimism...Or maybe that's just me


I grew up in a family that consisted of only NT's. Hostility is our only way of showing affection


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## Mercutio

.


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## knife

Mercutio said:


> Sounds like heaven. My mom, dad, and sister are hardcore SFJs. Needless to say, they think I'm a sociopath


Perhaps you are?

heh heh heh heh heh


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## Aiwass

I don't pick on NFs, but I do dislike it when people get offended for dumb reasons and expect me to apologize them. I'm not responsible for anyone's personal interpretation of my words when they clearly aren't meant to be offensive.

Other than that, sometimes I do friendly teasing with NFs I have intimacy with but not with the intention of offending them. I just find their reaction funny and often adorable.


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## Summery

I don't believe that's because they're NT's. I think that's because a lot of people here have an avoidant - attachment style. Those people in general loathe emotional open people. I just read somewhere else on the internet, an ENFP who was asking the best way to be there for her INTJ, when she saw he was clearly suffering emotionally from some things, and she got all kind of aggressive answers that she should leave him alone, that she doesn't need to know what's going on, that it's not her bussness, that INTJ's are independent and don't need anyone. Well, that's not the definition of INTJ. That's exactly the definition of a avoidant - attachment style. Now, don't get me wrong, it's a Ni thing to wanting to be alone for a while, and thinking the problem instead of sharing it. I've seen NFJ's doing that too. Yet that's still a different from being reluctant to share personal things. A part of intimacy is sharing of personal thoughts and feelings. And healthy NT's do that. My INTP dad talks about his feelings all the time. My INTJ granddad didn't push my grandmother away either and my INTJ - sister is not afraid to talk her heart out either, when things are bothering her.
It's truth however that NT's can get annoyed with the oversensitive responses of feelers. Yet, healthy NT's don't look down on us for that. At the contrary. They tend to like NF - finesses and find there emotional intelligence and creativity interesting. Really, looking DOWN on a feeler, has to do with other issues. Secure - attached NT's don't really do that (only when it's an NF who's emotional fucked up - hell no, they can't stand that, that's true, but normal NF's, they tend to really like - despite they sometimes roll there eyes when we get overly sensitive. Or read to much in emotional clues, like tone of voice. Sometimes I feel offended by something my dad said, and he gets annoyed with it: like: what, where's the offending? I didn't offend you. I'm a man. Do you want me to talk like this all the time. *Fakes barbievoice* for minutes, keeps pushing it, (he knows all my spots) till he stresses me out completely.
Kind of @Aiwass said. But so what? NF's can get annoyed also when NT's are clearly are emotional not acting in tune or can't see that they are the ones being wrong. But yeah - human relationships always have flaws. 
Yet healthy NT's won't look down on you because your a feeler,( only on some SF's - but because they think they're shallow/stupid), like we also don't look down on them because they are thinker. Each has strengths the other lacks. *shrugs*
I've seen that and we're often one of the healthy ones favorite people - and the other way around. (From what've seen in my personal life)


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## Winegums

Aiwass said:


> I don't pick on NFs, but I do dislike it when people get offended for dumb reasons and expect me to apologize them. I'm not responsible for anyone's personal interpretation of my words when they clearly aren't meant to be offensive.


Spoken like a true INTJ. Using objective reasoning to excuse ones self from subjective social issues. 

If your words were "clearly" not ment to be offensive why did they offend someone in the first place? 

You must be seeing the pattern by now that the majority of the population will consider things in an subjective and objective manner, not solely objective.

IXTJs commonly have the problem of thinking everyone is like they are.

EDIT: I found this video to be very relevant.


----------



## Maryanne Francis

Winegums said:


> I've found that NTs love to troll people and play with their feelings for fun and amusement. As if seeing someone upset is a positive thing to them. Then when they're told that they're hurting someone's feelings they can't be bothered to care, saying something along the lines of, "You're too sensitive, grow up and stop crying". Mean while the NF is crushed and is wondering why someone would decide to pick on them. Or how someone could be so mean without a good reason.
> 
> Remember NTs just because you aren't taking something seriously that doesn't mean that the other person isn't.


INFJs are way to emotionally intense. What triggers these emotions? Is it an outburst from pent up feelings, or is it how you experience the world every other day? How much of that is negative emotion?


----------



## Maryanne Francis

Aiwass said:


> I don't pick on NFs, but I do dislike it when people get offended for dumb reasons and expect me to apologize them. I'm not responsible for anyone's personal interpretation of my words when they clearly aren't meant to be offensive.


Yeah, dealing with that is crap.


----------



## Ghostsoul

NT's pick on everyone who isn't an NT.
Heck, sometimes they pick on other NTs as well.


----------



## Winegums

Maryanne Francis said:


> INFJs are way to emotionally intense. What triggers these emotions? Is it an outburst from pent up feelings, or is it how you experience the world every other day? How much of that is negative emotion?


This is an Fe response, and a strong one from me, if you want the Ti response look at post 96. It was a bit angry stemming from the fact that earlier that day an NT decided to pick on me. 

I'd say that INFJ are just emotional enough for our own good, anymore and no one would be able to stand us. We speak mainly through Fe so it's hard for us not to sound emotional or put emotion into our communication.

It is how I see the world everyday. I see the web of social interactions and emotions that is woven by society. I can't help but notice the patterns the pop up between different classes, genders, types, partners, etc. The fact that I'm so effected by emotions, makes me hyper aware of poor/negative interactions. As a result I can't stand bullying as it hurts me just being a witness to it. On the plus side I'm aware of the positive interactions and emotions too and seeing those warms my heart. 

So when you get down to the meat of it I don't want to see NTs picking on NFs because it hurts me. 

Fe is great right?


----------



## Metalize

Winegums said:


> This is an Fe response, and a strong one from me, if you want the Ti response look at post 96. It was a bit angry stemming from the fact that earlier that day an NT decided to pick on me.
> 
> I'd say that INFJ are just emotional enough for our own good, anymore and no one would be able to stand us. We speak mainly through Fe so it's hard for us not to sound emotional or put emotion into our communication.
> 
> It is how I see the world everyday. I see the web of social interactions and emotions that is woven by society. I can't help but notice the patterns the pop up between different classes, genders, types, partners, etc. The fact that I'm so effected by emotions, makes me hyper aware of poor/negative interactions. As a result I can't stand bullying as it hurts me just being a witness to it. On the plus side I'm aware of the positive interactions and emotions too and seeing those warms my heart.
> 
> So when you get down to the meat of it I don't want to see NTs picking on NFs because it hurts me.
> 
> Fe is great right?


I always tested as INTx, but can relate easily to everything you've said.

And I maintain that any type that acts the way you described should be called out for being a dick. Being "thinking-oriented" or whatever actually doesn't grant anyone special excuses/privilege to ignore basic decency, and the aforementioned person is probably not so cognitively endowed if they actually can't understand the bare basics of respectful communication/relations.

They're probably just being dicks, though.


----------



## Schubertslieder

I feel like NTs are the ones being picked on.


----------



## Winegums

Schubertslieder said:


> I feel like NTs are the ones being picked on.


Honestly it's NFs being dumb and not realizing they're talking to an NT(we should know better), as much as it is NTs being NTs and not realizing that the NF is taking it to heart.

Communication style awareness would solve this problem. Really as NFs we should be able to read people and know they're NT,SJ or SP, and adapt ourselves to their style.


----------



## Maryanne Francis

Winegums said:


> So when you get down to the meat of it I don't want to see NTs picking on NFs because it hurts me.
> 
> Fe is great right?


Fe is better suited for social activism on a non-personal and general level, standing up for the rights of a collective whole. On a personal level, Fe can emotionally hijack you and hold you against your will.




Winegums said:


> It is how I see the world everyday. I see the web of social interactions and emotions that is woven by society. I can't help but notice the patterns the pop up between different classes, genders, types, partners, etc. The fact that I'm so effected by emotions, makes me hyper aware of poor/negative interactions...


The thing though is that Te is not concerned about making an emotional connection with others. It gives information and stating facts without emotional undertones that Feeling types prefer. There is a possibility that feeling types, will take Te statements as a personal attack/ bullying, especially if a negative things needs to be said. Yeah, sure, some NTs insult others, but so do all other personality types. You need not look far, just go to the first page of this thread and see what I mean. Thus the reason I don't believe NT's pick on NFs in the first place.


In conclusion, everyone wants everyone else to be like them. Harmony, therefore, is an illusion to chase after.


----------



## Schubertslieder

Winegums said:


> Honestly it's NFs being dumb and not realizing they're talking to an NT(we should know better), as much as it is NTs being NTs and not realizing that the NF is taking it to heart.
> 
> Communication style awareness would solve this problem. Really as NFs we should be able to read people and know they're NT,SJ or SP, and adapt ourselves to their style.


Seriously, I truly feel like NTs are the ones being picked on.


----------



## MacabreCharade

It goes both ways.


----------



## Schubertslieder

I feel one way, so I am not sure how to feel both ways.


----------



## Ladyintricate

They pick on us because they are smart asses. Also because they secretly love us.

::Muhahaha!::


----------



## Ladyintricate

Schubertslieder said:


> I feel one way, so I am not sure how to feel both ways.


All teasing aside. My oldest friend is an INTJ and I have been seriously dating an INTP for more than 2 years now. I adore NT's! REALLY and truly. 

I can definitely see the communication issues that easily crop up between NF's and NT's. Specifically, NF's are very emotional (usually) and NT's are (usually) very direct and logical. I think NF's crave appreciative and friendly (my boyfriend would say "flowery") words from everyone that they are at all close to. This is not to say that we want people to _lie_ to us, but to be considerate of our feelings and to express the positives when they think/feel them. Now, to be fair that is what I as an extrovert crave...so not sure if that is both my E and F or just NF, but hopefully you get what I mean. ANYWAYS, NT's are incredibly honest and direct. Usually they are pretty economical in their speech as well. This can come off (especially to a feeler) as being terse or even rude. 

My advice (that no one really asked for) is for NT's to try and think if the truth you are going to say will sound harsh, and if so, preface it by saying, "I do not want to hurt your feelings. I am being honest, but please know that I care about you (or are your friend, etc.,) and THE TRUTH THAT MAY SOUND INSENSITIVE. For NF's - We need to develop a little bit of a thicker skin and to have the guts to say to the NT - "Hey, that was not nice how it sounded...were you trying to hurt my feelings or just being very blunt?" 

I will say that 95% of the time the NT's are just being honest and didn't mean anything hurtful by what they said.


----------



## Queen of Mars

I would certainly never pick on you guys. I don't think any of us would, we're not bad people. I can't speak for everyone, however, I'm sure there are some douchebag NT's out there.


----------



## Runemarks

Actually, most NTs I know like me, and we get along well.


----------



## Winegums

Maryanne Francis said:


> Fe is better suited for social activism on a non-personal and general level, standing up for the rights of a collective whole. On a personal level, Fe can emotionally hijack you and hold you against your will.


Agreed 100%, Fe is very nasty for making one neglect their own needs or wants.




> The thing though is that Te is not concerned about making an emotional connection with others. It gives information and stating facts without emotional undertones that Feeling types prefer. There is a possibility that feeling types, will take Te statements as a personal attack/ bullying, especially if a negative things needs to be said. Yeah, sure, some NTs insult others, but so do all other personality types. You need not look far, just go to the first page of this thread and see what I mean. Thus the reason I don't believe NT's pick on NFs in the first place.
> 
> 
> In conclusion, everyone wants everyone else to be like them. Harmony, therefore, is an illusion to chase after.


An NT wouldn't be an NT if they were concerned about emotions most of the time. Being a thinker however doesn't excuse anyone from being rude or ignorant of others feelings, that's a sign of an unhealthy NT. The same goes for an NF ignoring logic because of how they feel, that's also unhealthy. 

Often the reason INTJ Ni-Te statements are view as attacks is INTJs have a really really bad habit of failing to explain themselves. Often it's a blunt negative comment with no backing what so ever, like the person it was directed at is assumed to know where the statement is coming from. Then when the INTJ is asked why they believe their statement to be true they brush off the question. Pretty much saying that they can't be bothered to explain, or that the person wouldn't understand it. 

So yeah blunt Te statements look like insults unless they reason behind them is explained, often they aren't.


----------



## TrailMix

NTs are like little boys in elementary school. they like us but dont know how to express themselves so they throw bark at us.


----------



## Ultr4

NF are some how frightening to me. I always try to keep distance with people, and NF (Especially E, I don't have the same problem With I, i don't know why) can't keep this 'safety' distance. And this force me to put a barrier in reaction, creating each time some problem, and making me an horrible 'cold blood' or something like that. There are a lot of topic I never discuss, and I would never want to discuss about, and this looks to be a problem (to me and NF friends).

Secondly, I'm alway straight when I talk, I can try to say thing funnily, but, it will always be straight, even more if were talking about personal things. I don't understand 'round about' talk, I'd like when things are said clearly without ambiguities, I'm a binary in discussions, 1 or 0. I can have grey concept, but no grey talks. Therefore, with NF, I always have to survey myself because I know this can be hurtful for them, or a simple general remark can be taken as a personal attack, whereas it's absolutely not in my mind. And I feel that tiring...

Surrounded by NF, I always feel myself 'cold' and 'distant'. I don't feel this with other types.
So, I'm always 'affraid' when I know I will be a long time alone with an ENFx, afraid because I know I'll be bored, and because I may say something wrong or make a mistake. 

Contrariwise, I've got 2 friends INFP, and one of them is the only people who knows my whole life (I tell her everything - Ok, Almost but it's like Everything with regard to my my-life-is-a-secret-that-i-never-expose-attitude-side). And I like to be with them. But, they don't care about my new discovery of the day related to science read this morning, or the new signification I've found in a book at the second reading and the incredible consequence that it implies, or the incredible implication of electrical signal treatment in body for medical applications... But anyway .

I'm talking for me especially (I'm may be not representative of all NT types ), and hope it helped a little, If my gobbledygook is understandable.


----------



## Yuusha

Society (at least western) is biased toward the Thinking preference. It's deeply ingrained in our culture. Typical Thinking jobs are often the most well paid and respected. The Thinking preference is simply more highly valued in our society, it is seen as more practical and useful.

I remember when I was in my early teens and did an MBTI test for the first time. I was convinced I would get INTP or INTJ or something and was sincerely hoping for it. "I think a lot, right? I'm smart, right?"
I don't remember exactly what I got, but it was one of the NF's. I remember to this day how utterly disappointed I was, I was overwhelmed with a feeling that I would never amount to anything because I understood even then that today's society is thinker-oriented. I suddenly felt like I was stupid. I quickly started rejecting the results, though. I was in denial a long time about being an NF. I'm way more comfortable with it today, though. I love being an ENFP, despite (or because?) it being such an emotional rollercoaster.


----------



## UnicornRainbowLove

Leave the nf's alone! leave them alone!


----------



## the401

11thNight said:


> Though a fair amount of NTs do express appreciation for NFs, it also seems like a fair amount of NTs focus mainly on the negative aspects of our feeling nature and view it as inferior to their thinking nature. Why? :'(


EDIT: i know i shouldn't discriminate by type, however there are just some types i can get along with. so i guest the best thing to do is as they say 

" if you have nothing good to say, don't say anything" ( i'll still state my opinion though....... lol)


----------



## Strelok

the401 said:


> i hate NT's with all my heart, they piss me off to no end.....
> 
> they are cold hearted with no consideration for people's thoughts and feelings, and they think "logic" explains everything which clearly does not..........
> 
> ask an NT this question :
> 
> *can something be created out of nothing?*
> 
> and watch them in think in pain because this question will never be able to be answered..... they will just be entering the endless void.........
> 
> HAHAHAHAHAHA ..... yea that's what you get NT's


_I'm 12 years old and what is this?_


----------



## the401

Strelok said:


> _I'm 12 years old and what is this?_


im not even going to fall for your bait, i can't get along with you people.

but then again i don't want to discriminate based on types.......( there are always exceptions) maybe i just don't like you.


----------



## Persephone

I'm a playground bully. This is why I call my ENFJ silly every chance I get. I poke him every other chance I get. He's so pokable. RAWR.


----------



## 1000BugsNightSky

Whaaaaaa???


----------



## Golden Rose

Do they? 

So far my experience with NTs was amazing, even in cases of miscommunication they try to make theor point clear anyway (easier with NJs but NPs can too) and I've noticed that feeler/feeler interactions are the ones who can be either mindblowingly amazing or legitimately bloody. Not that NTs and NFs can't clash, that happens too but besides some light bantering or playful teasing about "feels", something I personally adore, I get along really well with NTs.

There's always the immature ones devoted to intellectual superiority, harsh trolling or intentionally dismissing your points but NTs and thinkers in general make amazing friends and lovers who can expand your own views though you shouldn't really let typology interfere in your relationships, it's just a tool for understanding. Judge a person for who they are and what they say and do, actions not stereotypes.

Plus, INFPs are already the laughing stock of the system most of the time. Love it.


----------



## Dashing

the401 said:


> im not even going to fall for your bait, i can't get along with you people.
> 
> but then again i don't want to discriminate based on types.......( there are always exceptions) maybe i just don't like you.


Bless your heart.


----------



## Schubertslieder

I am not sure if I like this thread.


----------



## Eladamri1

I only pick on NF's because I find you all adorable  So positive and ignorantly hopeful; what's not to love?


----------



## StaceofBass

I think the jerks are the ones who feel they have to perpetuate the stereotypes. Like..."oh my test result said xNTx so now I have to act EXACTLY like the descriptions...and portray all the stereotypes...without digging deeper into what it actually means". That's the impression I get of them at least.

The actual NTs I've met are a complete joy to talk to because I am always learning something from conversations with them. I think NTs and NFs can really help each other grow.


----------



## Schubertslieder

Hitler = INFJ

I am not a fan of Hitler. 

I am not a fan of this thread.


----------



## chanteuse

I have very limited exposure to NTs. I may have dated 2 in the past (not sure if they are INTP/INTJ/ISTJ). My current is an INTJ. 

Sure my feeling got hurt at times but not from them intentionally hurting me. It's more my own reaction to their rationality or lack of emotional goo. I knew it when I heard a person saying something intentionally hurtful to me. It's very different than a person asking me for reason and logic on a given matter or stating his reason and logic to me.


----------



## incision

We would have picked on you a lot more, had you placed this thread in the NT subforum.


----------



## Tridentus

Who cares?!

I pity people who are cynical and egotistical. I enjoy life more than them because of my positivity to life. They're also overwhelmingly people who are less successful in all areas of life because their attitude and lack of emotional intelligence hold them back, of course creating even more negativity and more "protecting-their-ego", in a spiral.

If you actually meet people who really have their sh*t together, in all areas of life; they're _exclusively_ people who have found their best selves in terms of being accommodating, patient yet driven.

People who act critical of others to make themselves feel superior immediately make me feel pity for their fragile ego.

This isn't symptomatic of NTs either, it's just that they're the type most likely to act that way when they're unhealthy.


----------



## Vahyavishdapaya

Winegums said:


> objective logic is the end all and be all.


Well, it is. Emotions are phenomenal. Rationality is noumenal.

Why is there a broad assumption that you can't incorporate emotions into rationality? And why is this idea reinforced more so by NFs, talking about how feelings don't fit into the framework of objective logical thinking. That's such a defeatist attitude. For instance, if you feel hungry then logically it's time to eat. If you've got morning wood then it's time to fap. There are two simple examples of how feelings can be incorporated into logical decision making, and anyone who says they can't do that must be extraordinarily lazy.

I do agree with whoever it was that pointed out that NFs find it very difficult to abandon 'cherished beliefs' (for instance, religion). In order to abandon any belief of mine I need to see it comprehensively proven to be either a lie (as happened with my religious beliefs), or to be exposed as mediocre, inefficient and not the very best solution (as with my former adherence to Bolshevism). But a lot of NFs aren't capable of that (as in, they clearly and consciously refuse to be, it's not for a lack of brainpower) and just go about burying their heads if somebody starts disseminating seditious and blasphemous views.


----------



## kiwigrl

11thNight said:


> Though a fair amount of NTs do express appreciation for NFs, it also seems like a fair amount of NTs focus mainly on the negative aspects of our feeling nature and view it as inferior to their thinking nature. Why? :'(


 It's because they envy our ability to feel so deeply and to decipher what others are feeling and show so much empathy. Feeling is a gift. It enables us to connect with people easily. NT's probably have moments where their logic alienates them from people, because the NF feels invisible to the NT who is purely task driven and while in that mode doesn't see the person. Don't get me wrong, I am impressed with the ability they have to process problems and find a solution. But if NTs and NFs learn to share their insights instead of criticising each other imagine what we could achieve?


----------



## Kurt Wagner

Because we're cute.


And sexy.










^That's actually @Turlowe, you know.


----------



## Blue Soul

We pick on you because we love you. We love you because you have all those brilliant ideas that we can pick apart. We pick them apart because we want to improve you. We want to improve you because we want to be with you. We want to be with you because you make us feel good. We feel good because you are so warm, bubbly and illogical. Illogical, therefore we pick on you.


----------



## Kurt Wagner

Blue Soul said:


> We pick on you because we love you. We love you because you have all those brilliant ideas that we can pick apart. We pick them apart because we want to improve you. We want to improve you because we want to be with you. We want to be with you because you make us feel good. We feel good because you are so warm, bubbly and illogical. Illogical, therefore we pick on you.


Oh, love them INTJs!










I'm not illogical though. I'm lazy, I give you that, but not illogical.


----------



## Blue Soul

Luke the Turner said:


> I'm not illogical though. I'm lazy, I give you that, but not illogical.


Not always, that's true. Only sometimes 

That gif about describes us perfectly, there's no mistaking who's the INTJ haha.


----------



## Kurt Wagner

Blue Soul said:


> Luke the Turner said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm lazy.
> 
> 
> 
> Only always, that's true. Not sometimes
Click to expand...

I agree. It's a problem.

XD


----------



## Turlowe

Logic is a great tool, so is a hammer. The thing is sometimes a hammer just won't do, but every toolkit needs one.


----------



## Peter

11thNight said:


> Though a fair amount of NTs do express appreciation for NFs, it also seems like a fair amount of NTs focus mainly on the negative aspects of our feeling nature and view it as inferior to their thinking nature. Why? :'(


Don't worry too much about it. It's much worse when you´re an S.

:laughing:


----------



## Zora

They don't. They are simply expressing the way they see the world. They tend to be more forthright than NF's. 'Picking' on someone is deliberately making someone feel bad. I assure you, NT's do not set out to hurt feelings - they just have a different way of expressing their ideas. Strengthen yourself, it's a bad world out there - this is the best of it.


----------



## kannbrown

I don't know about other NT's, but I NEVER pick on others. Now, this is not to say that stuff that might hurt someone's feelings won't come out of my mouth, but 'picking on' requires intent. It means you find something you know will bother/annoy/hurt someone's feelings and you deliberately say it. Certainly NOT. And no, not because I'm sensitive, super nice, or better than anyone, but because it leads to something I hate and try to avoid at all costs-- emotional drama. Ugh. So, when it does happen, it's more or less like..

Me- blah, blah, stuff, 'something that seems to contradict a dearly held belief or somehow makes them feel I'm implying they are stupid'

Them- 'emotional drama dump'.

Me- backs away slowly, nodding agreement, then run away, run FAR away. 

I can do an intellectual debate all day long. Insults? Don't really bother me. They're either true and then...well, they're true. Or they're false and then, who cares, it isn't true. I usually view it as 'I'm losing, so I'm going to start throwing insults so they'll be distracted or stop debating me'. I ignore them and stay on the topic. 

Start ranting or crying and talking about feelings.. I placate and disengage. 

So no, not saying I'll never hurt someone's feelings, but I'm definitely not TRYING to.


----------



## Hei

11thNight said:


> Though a fair amount of NTs do express appreciation for NFs, it also seems like a fair amount of NTs focus mainly on the negative aspects of our feeling nature and view it as inferior to their thinking nature. Why? :'(


I don't


----------



## westlose

> Humanitarians are inclined to regard Researchers with sympathy and admiration for their intellectual pursuits but with some puzzlement at their apparent "lack of interest in people".
> 
> Researchers are inclined to see Humanitarians sympathetically and as essentially non-threatening, but also with a sense of bewilderment as to their motivations.


Humanitarians are NFs, and Researchers NTs obviously. I think that this wikisocion description is the most general of those interactions.


----------



## Deadly Decorum

Why does anyone bully anyone for their type?

As an ISFJ, I get a lot of smack based on stereotypes or a person's bad encounter with one. As if I speak for all ISFJ's, lol. I think Jung/MBTI would be a much more pleasant system if judgment was removed. I use Jung as a tool to understand others' strengths and weaknesses so I can accommodate and manipulate (hehe) relationships. It's much easier for me to deal with frustration when I can understand where a person is coming from, yet people find it more fulfilling to use typing as a form of superiority complex.


----------



## Im FiNe

I guess I don't really perceive a pattern or general inclination for every NT to pick on NFs as a group. Perhaps I have noticed that xxTPs on PerC tend to troll INFP posts from time to time. That is only certain individuals though.

Perhaps a wider inclination is the inability to appreciate Feeling preference over Thinking preference. That isn't aimed at picking on people or even challenging all Feelers (except perhaps in a joking manner). It's merely not being able to appreciate the world as a left-hander when you have always been right-handed.


----------



## TimeWillTell

LOL! YEAH! I was a terrible bully when I was young. Something I m not really proud of...
And I have Fe!!! but it s my 3rd function, so give us time and try to see beyond that, will you?


----------



## Kynx

Some NTs can give it, but they can't take it.
:tongue:


----------



## Notus Asphodelus

The only think I pick are toothpicks..


----------



## IIIIII

Have not seen NTs hating on us NFs, most of the time I see them talking about how they want to hook up with an NF. As a matter of fact they seem to like us INFPs alot.


----------



## AddictiveMuse

Easy! They are jealous of our awesome NFness. They secretly wish they could be a fluffy and adorable as us! such is every NTs dream!


----------



## misfortuneteller

it's probably their way of flirting.


----------



## Stufak

I almost never intentionally pick on anyone either. It just makes things so much easier if you are at least civil in your interactions. There is the occasional time where I am actually hit hard by an insult and can't hold back a retort, but just don't get a kick out of making people upset. A bit of self censorship now and then isn't a bad thing. There are few people close to me that have a high tolerance and they are the ones who hear my little jokes and comments I would otherwise keep to myself.


----------



## kannbrown

INTP's, at least, I think are non-confrontational enough, and hate drama so much...can't see us deliberately picking on anyone. Now, we're also awkward turtles, so...can see someone taking something we say wrong, though. Easily.


----------



## Arzazar Szubrasznikarazar

People with very high T percentage seem to be bordering on psychopathy. From my experience, Ts that pick on NFs tend to have underdeveloped Feeling.


----------



## TimeWillTell

Arzazar Szubrasznikarazar said:


> People with very high T percentage seem to be bordering on psychopathy. From my experience, Ts that pick on NFs tend to have underdeveloped Feeling.


NF & NT need to meet their T & F halfway


----------



## EnigmaticaIIy

I have a Intp brother and he loves criticizing me byt, he hates criticizim D: We do get along pretty well doe, usually ~Smirk~


----------



## LemonTea

It's simple. They just can't take the NFs' emotional bullshit because emotions are illogical and thinking types naturally prefer logic. And because NTs are clever enough to stay out of emotional drama. Also, the excessive emotional whining is no fun to deal with. There's probably a plethora of other reasons too. (not saying all NTs and NFs are like this, but just giving you the general idea)


----------



## Ultr4

I like INFP, my best friends (girls) are INFP. I have some difficulties with ENFP, sometime I feef exceeded. I don't know any ENFJ. I'm keen on an INFJ, but there, it's fire and ice, something more looking at 'nuclear fire storm' or 'dinosaure extinction winter'. 
I don't even understand what can interest an NF in an NT mind as it is so different. I always ask myselfwhen discussing with NFP 'howcan yousurvive in this world?' as i found them very weak or too gentle..


----------



## raskoolz

They like to pick their brains. We like to pick our nose.


----------



## Red Panda

It's a recurring theme for sure. But personally, they don't pick on me with bad intentions, usually to make me laugh as well.


----------



## johnnyyukon

AddictiveMuse said:


> Easy! They are jealous of our awesome NFness. They secretly wish they could be a fluffy and adorable as us! such is every NTs dream!


Nailed it.


If only I was a fluffy bunny, hopping through a dewy meadow


----------



## AddictiveMuse

johnnyyukon said:


> Nailed it.
> 
> 
> If only I was a fluffy bunny, hopping through a dewy meadow


Mwhahahahaha! Silly ENTP! Continue growing envious of our fluffy NFness! I shall continue my way through the dewy meadow!
*hops off gracefully into the distance*


----------



## ficsci

I think NTs sometimes are so skeptical that they don't believe us when we explain things in a non-methodical/deductive way, even if it's true. I've never really been bullied/hated by an NT... I think? I've met a lot of them, and some of them just don't take me seriously, hence don't really treat me as an equal. But sometimes I manage to prove that I'm right, and they were wrong to not believe me. Damn that felt good.


----------



## TimeWillTell

AddictiveMuse said:


> Mwhahahahaha! Silly ENTP! Continue growing envious of our fluffy NFness! I shall continue my way through the dewy meadow!
> *hops off gracefully into the distance*


ENFJ / ENTP friendships are fun as hell  But yeah, don't fool yourselves, we only follow you in your NFness to mess with it cuz it s delightful!


----------



## johnnyyukon

AddictiveMuse said:


> Mwhahahahaha! Silly ENTP! Continue growing envious of our fluffy NFness! I shall continue my way through the dewy meadow!
> *hops off gracefully into the distance*


Wait! take me with you! 


awww, nevermind, I can't slither as fast as a bunny.


----------



## EnigmaticaIIy

We survive because we are friggin bunnies whaddya do with bunnies? Hug em of course, if you don't ill maybe bite c;.


----------



## ScarlettHayden

Because they don't trust their own feelings. So they take it out on those who do.


----------



## Tezcatlipoca

I guess I have been being kind of a dick lately. I guess I just expect more in some ways. I feel like NFPs or maybe xxFPs are manipulative, have double standards, and profess not to be superficial but in reality they are very superficial. Worst of all every time I feel like they manipulate me to believe it is my fault. That if I changed my views to the "proper" ones we would get along good, but in reality I think they are often just selfish and take advantage of whatever the situation is. I wish I grew up somewhere else. I feel part of it is exacerbated by american culture.


----------



## johnnyyukon

Dang, are we really that bad? 

As has probably mentioned, we certainly have our moments of unintentionally hurting feelz, but I don't think it's constant picking on or hounding. 

I don't like bullies myself, so I'd be a sad bunny if I someone thought I was 

































^^^^sad bunny


----------



## AddictiveMuse

johnnyyukon said:


> Wait! take me with you!
> 
> 
> awww, nevermind, I can't slither as fast as a bunny.


Damn right you can't! XD


----------



## johnnyyukon

AddictiveMuse said:


> Damn right you can't! XD


Why are you picking on me?? I have feelz!!!



sad bunny


----------



## Doran Seth

I can only guess immaturity is the reason. I used to desire to become a purely logical being who could suppress all emotion... then I grew up. I learned that feeling-based thinking is very valuable as well. Moreover I learned that there is some value in every way of thinking. The belief that one's manner of thinking is *the ideal* and all others are inferior is very myopic.

- An NT who luffs NFs


----------



## TheEpicPolymath

No no we don't


----------



## EnigmaticaIIy

Since you INTP's have telepathy can you tell your fellow INTP brother to be more considerate with me?
*Hides in a corner covering eyes*


----------



## Sygma

Don't worry, I knew an INTJ who asked me to "stop to pick on her" at some point because she was all messed up in the feelings department.

I'm not gonna make any fun out of her on that end because I never meant to harm her, and she had the potential to be a beautiful human beein but had a pretty heavy bagage so yeah ... I guess that NT types do that because they like you very much. When it's done with a non dickish smile its all about witty exchange and nothing more.

Its just hard to draw a line. Its gonna be weird to read that but I kinda need that stimulation in a relationship, be it friendly or romantic in order to feel good about it. Otherwise its just too soft and its not something I can handle on the length I guess. Of course you ll get nice words, care and two tons of love ! its just that yeah I dont know, my ways of showin that I truelly like you is to tease you non stop when its not all lovey dovey


----------



## HoldenCawffled

Perhaps it's simply because of differences and preference. Logic and rationality make much more sense to us than "feelings," that's why we "pick" on you. Especially more so when the feeling function of NFs get too overwhelming.

I generally like NFs though.


----------



## HoldenCawffled

Perhaps it's simply because of differences and preference. Logic and rationality make much more sense to us than "feelings," that's why we "pick" on you. Especially more so when the feeling function of NFs get too overwhelming.

I generally like NFs though.


----------



## TimeWaster

Rationals, like people of all temperaments, believe that everyone should be exactly like them. This Pygmalionism is particularly rampant on PC, where I guess non-NTs would feel pretty affronted by their ceaseless logic-policing.


----------



## Atla

In the case of picking with negative intent, it might also be because deep deep deep deep down, somewhere way in the back of their unconscious part of their mind, they are afraid that 1. "thinking" with perfectly modulated and logical emotion fields flowing together can be superior to "thinking" with logical thoughts. Making the F have the potential (even if unlikely) to exceed the T in rationality and just overall understanding and logic. 
And 2. they are afraid that experiencing life primarily through emotions might be a more amazing ride.


----------



## Strelok

Atla said:


> And 2. they are afraid that experiencing life primarily through emotions might be a more amazing ride.


I don't think anyone thinks that.


----------



## Jamie.Ether

I don't think I've often been picked on by NT's (expect ENTP's who do it in a playful way because they are amused by my reaction ;p).

I've felt like I was being picked on before by NT's and later realized that I was just taking it too personally. 

I have felt that some NT's look down on me. These are unhealthy insecure NT's. They have usually been brought up to value intellect and devalue emotions. I see that as immaturity and their own baggage/weaknesses, not a reflection of me or other NT's.


----------



## Arcypher

We mess around with you NF users because we seem to be intrigued with your preference of Fi/Fe. It's probably because most NTs are disconnected from their emotions or do not value them as much, and we are trying to find to find through an external source. More often than not, NTs start to become more in-tune with their emotions when they realize logic and feeling should be used in harmony.


----------



## Pressed Flowers

They be jelly.


----------



## TimeWillTell

Because sometimes you seem to beat us at trolling. That's unbearable!


----------



## Kynx

WikiRevolution said:


> Because sometimes you seem to beat us at trolling. That's unbearable!


:shocked:
NF's would never troll! 
That's a scientifically verified fact.


----------



## TimeWillTell

Neverontime said:


> :shocked:
> NF's would never troll!
> That's a scientifically verified fact.


See, that s my point, you do it effortlessly!


----------



## umop 3pisdn

NTs are often dorks. The idea of them picking on other people can be pretty funny.


----------



## TimeWillTell

umop 3pisdn said:


> NTs are often dorks. The idea of them picking on other people can be pretty funny.


 @umop 3pisdn I <3 you 2!


----------



## EndsOfTheEarth

TimeWaster said:


> Rationals, like people of all temperaments, believe that everyone should be exactly like them. This Pygmalionism is particularly rampant on PC, where I guess non-NTs would feel pretty affronted by their ceaseless logic-policing.


Thats a thing I've noticed is more common amoung the younger ones, say early 20's and under. I don't see a lot of that coming from members who are older. It stems from a lack of self belief and the need to constantly affirm ones identity and in the process take digs at someone else's in order to shore up their feelings of 'okayness'. 

Personally I prefer to chat with NF's but a lot of NF's don't find much in me that's appealing. The too focused and dry expression is pretty hard going I suppose. I'm not affronted but do tend to hang out with fellow NTs just because it's easier for me to talk without constantly monitoring my expression for excessive harshness.


----------



## Strelok

InSolitude said:


> Thats a thing I've noticed is more common amoung the younger ones, say early 20's and under. I don't see a lot of that coming from members who are older. It stems from a lack of self belief and the need to constantly affirm ones identity and in the process take digs at someone else's in order to shore up their feelings of 'okayness'.
> 
> Personally I prefer to chat with NF's but a lot of NF's don't find much in me that's appealing. The too focused and dry expression is pretty hard going I suppose. I'm not affronted but do tend to hang out with fellow NTs just because it's easier for me to talk without constantly monitoring my expression for excessive harshness.


So are you an NT or an ESFP?

Very confusing...


----------



## Theobruh

INFPs are lovely human beings.

I'd love to be one of you too. Honorary INFP membership card, please.

Well... I guess I can get a little intimidated with the amount of feels I get showered with if I stumble upon the right buttons, but I've learned now what not to do. :kitteh:


----------



## Simpson17866

Social Skills envy


----------



## Lifehacker

*NF Types: *Says anything*
Me: Get your grubby little feelings out of here.*

Take a moment and generalize the scenario with me:
-Men are dominantly thinkers, women are dominantly feelers. Tested and proven.

NFs are like the emotional older/younger sister to the NTs. We like that you think intuitively, but don't make the most logical decisions most of the time. But hey, what are brothers for!?


----------



## Simpson17866

Lifehacker said:


> ... generalize ...


 No! NEVER generalize!




:wink:


----------



## TimeWillTell

Simpson17866 said:


> No! NEVER generalize!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :wink:


Oww I got you, so shall we ALWAYS examplarize?


----------



## Miss Anne Thrope

@11thNight

Awesome Chiara avatar!


----------



## Elistra

11thNight said:


> Though a fair amount of NTs do express appreciation for NFs, it also seems like a fair amount of NTs focus mainly on the negative aspects of our feeling nature and view it as inferior to their thinking nature. Why? :'(


What, you mean on PerC? My hypothesis is because most of them are young, and therefore, their Feeling function (tertiary at best in an NT) is not that developed yet. They're not going to value Feeling in you when they barely even value it in themselves.


----------



## mashedpotato

Very true. I generally can't stand NF Fi users. The NF Fe users are a little different, though, because they seem to know boundaries better than Fi users do. Fi users tend to be more of a burden on me, wasting my time and energy with their constant, almost everyday problems and smothering.

I am biased. But I don't really care. It's for my benefit. If you're making my life harder instead of benefiting it then yeah I'm not going to like you... so if you're an NF Fi user who knows when to tone it down (which is rare) and who knows boundaries, then I'd be glad to have NF Fi users in my life. But I really haven't met one yet.

Most NF Fe users are great, though.


----------



## Elistra

ENTPness said:


> Your line kind of sucks because it is in itself a response.


The implied meaning of it is "a real response" rather than any sort of response at all, but yes. That's why I like the other line better.


----------



## ENTPness

Elistra said:


> The implied meaning of it is "a real response"


----------



## Elistra

ENTPness said:


>


I married an NTP, I already get all the existential bullshit one could ever hope for. Lol.


----------



## ENTPness

Elistra said:


> I married an NTP, I already get all the existential bullshit one could ever hope for. Lol.


Can you definitively prove that it truly is all one could *ever* hope for?


----------



## TimeWillTell

ENTPness said:


> Can you definitively prove that it truly is all one could *ever* hope for?


How a single example is supposed to prove anything anyway?! :shocked:


----------



## stripedfurball

Rainbow Catfactory said:


> This thread is great. Gold!!
> 
> I am an ENFP raised by an ESTP and an ISTJ. So I developed a thick skin. but still cry in my own closet  My question is ...
> 
> Why don't we just unite against the Sensors?
> 
> Hey guys, what's a pattern? Why do you analyze so much? Why do you ask so many questions? Why don't you just follow the rules? How bout them Packers, how bout that weather? (yawn)


There are some cool ones. I just have a beef with trolls, which is why I'm following this thread. My family is packed with NTs, and every goddamn family-observed holiday is basically everyone trying to rile everyone else while playing scrabble or whatever, and pretty much everyone else doesn't have a problem with it but me. I've tried not going home over the holidays, but then they get all offended and start trying to make these ham-fisted attempts to understand my motivations, and it gets really tiring after awhile. I love my family individually, but collectively they're a giant, analytical pain in the ass. I'm not sure how to solve the problem, since it would involve an NT understanding that other people have relevant emotions, and then trying to accommodate them, which seems to be beyond them most of the time.


----------



## stripedfurball

Lifehacker said:


> *NF Types: *Says anything*
> Me: Get your grubby little feelings out of here.*
> 
> Take a moment and generalize the scenario with me:
> -Men are dominantly thinkers, women are dominantly feelers. Tested and proven.
> 
> NFs are like the emotional older/younger sister to the NTs. We like that you think intuitively, but don't make the most logical decisions most of the time. But hey, what are brothers for!?


Arguably, this is largely because women have been socialized to be accommodating, which may be interpreted by the male centered society as "feeling."


----------



## stripedfurball

Neverontime said:


> Projection much


Yeah, dude has issues and is possibly overgeneralizing from a crazy sample.


----------



## ENTPness

WikiRevolution said:


> How a single example is supposed to prove anything anyway?! :shocked:


See my sig pls


----------



## TimeWillTell

ENTPness said:


> See my sig pls


Oh, I probably missed that :dry:


----------



## Elistra

ENTPness said:


> Can you definitively prove that it truly is all one could *ever* hope for?


In all seriousness, I really don't see the point in existentialism. Never have. It's like a child's train set that just goes round and round and round, stultifying the mind and leading nowhere.


----------



## Evolvenda

stripedfurball said:


> There are some cool ones. I just have a beef with trolls, which is why I'm following this thread. My family is packed with NTs, and every goddamn family-observed holiday is basically everyone trying to rile everyone else while playing scrabble or whatever, and pretty much everyone else doesn't have a problem with it but me. I've tried not going home over the holidays, but then they get all offended and start trying to make these ham-fisted attempts to understand my motivations, and it gets really tiring after awhile. I love my family individually, but collectively they're a giant, analytical pain in the ass. I'm not sure how to solve the problem, since it would involve an NT understanding that other people have relevant emotions, and then trying to accommodate them, which seems to be beyond them most of the time.


Get an NT boyfriend/husband who is smarter than all of them!


----------



## stripedfurball

Rydark said:


> Get an NT boyfriend/husband who is smarter than all of them!


I already have an ISTJ boyfriend who provides a welcome respite.


----------



## Elistra

stripedfurball said:


> There are some cool ones. I just have a beef with trolls, which is why I'm following this thread. My family is packed with NTs, and every goddamn family-observed holiday is basically everyone trying to rile everyone else while playing scrabble or whatever, and pretty much everyone else doesn't have a problem with it but me. I've tried not going home over the holidays, but then they get all offended and start trying to make these ham-fisted attempts to understand my motivations, and it gets really tiring after awhile. I love my family individually, but collectively they're a giant, analytical pain in the ass. I'm not sure how to solve the problem, since it would involve an NT understanding that other people have relevant emotions, and then trying to accommodate them, which seems to be beyond them most of the time.


<starts analyzing the statement>

:laughing:

It's not meant personally, it's just what we do. Is it analysis in and of itself that bothers you so much, or is it that it seems cold, or focused on one-upmanship, or something like that?


----------



## stripedfurball

Elistra said:


> <starts analyzing the statement>
> 
> :laughing:
> 
> It's not meant personally, it's just what we do. Is it analysis in and of itself that bothers you so much, or is it that it seems cold, or focused on one-upmanship, or something like that?


It's the oneupsmanship, and the lack of awareness when it cuts a little too close to the bone. One of the other posters above mentioned that she was sort of afraid of NFs because it seemed like she had to edit herself around them, which then meant she couldn't have really genuine interactions/friendships with them as a result; I can see her point, which is why I tend to keep family interactions about nonexplosive topics. If it's a random NT in the wild, I am more likely to just tread carefully.

I can analyze with my family as well, and can see the value in trying to see different points of view and think critically. I just don't really feel safe being vulnerable with them. Part of it is that there's a strong emphasis on problem-solving rather than just letting someone vent without immediately offering a possible solution or an explanation of how another party might see the issue. For me, it works best if I can vent, and then start stepping back and processing things. Surprisingly, I am dating an ISTJ who is capable of listening and letting all the crappiness escape first before breaking down a situation into more manageable parts. You wouldn't think it would work based on the personality theory, but he's actually really funny in a dry sort of way and incredibly kind. It's always a huge relief when you find someone you can be yourself around.

So, I guess it's not necessarily about all personality types being one way and mine being another, but possibly just individuals with varying levels of listening skills. I just got unnecessarily fired up because my NT family has been giving me crap my entire life, but hey, it's a small sample size. Obviously not all of you are like that.


----------



## Evolvenda

stripedfurball said:


> I already have an ISTJ boyfriend who provides a welcome respite.


Meh, not good enough haha.


----------



## stripedfurball

Rydark said:


> Meh, not good enough haha.


Only according to your paradigm.


----------



## Evolvenda

Oh, I was merely teasing. A smart NT boyfriend can understand your NT family and still be on your side (help decipher the nuances). Hell, he can even beat your NT family at one-upmanship for you - a powerful ally to combat your adversaries!


----------



## stripedfurball

Rydark said:


> Oh, I was merely teasing. A smart NT boyfriend can understand your NT family and still be on your side (help decipher the nuances). Hell, he can even beat your NT family at one-upmanship for you - a powerful ally to combat your adversaries!


Ehhhh, I'm happy with what I have right now. Chilling out, watching Cops, playing MarioKart, companionable silence ... the man knows where it's at. Despite what most people say about SJs, they're actually really funny, and he holds his own with my family. Plus he's a white guy dating a Native American who isn't all weird about racial issues; he just treats it as a fact of life and attends powwows with me like it isn't a big deal. Let me tell you: guys like that are hard to find.


----------



## ENTPness

Elistra said:


> In all seriousness, I really don't see the point in existentialism. Never have. It's like a child's train set that just goes round and round and round, stultifying the mind and leading nowhere.


In all seriousness... I don't either. Lol.


----------



## Korvyna

*shrug* I married an NT and I pick on him far worse than he picks on me. I thought it was a trade off...we each picked on each other. I feel like I relate more to NTs than any others, so I thought we all just had this playful nature. :cheers2:


----------



## ebae

Korvyna said:


> *shrug* I married an NT and I pick on him far worse than he picks on me. I thought it was a trade off...we each picked on each other. I feel like I relate more to NTs than any others, so I thought we all just had this playful nature. :cheers2:


I have been searching for you people. I have two questions: (1) How does a thread end up in Spam World? (2) How can I move it out of Spam World and into a different forum?


----------



## peyandkeele

personally i dont pick on feelers. they give contrast to how i think, i only get irritated with the feelers who go "eww nt types, you think your so smart with your thinking but you cant feel so your not people, blah blah blah". Other than that i prefer to keep an even balance of feelers to thinkers in my life, tho it seems to be predominantly feelers in my life at the moment.


----------



## stripedfurball

Shameless Nation said:


> C'mon, they secretly love us. They just think it's still highschool where to show someone you like them, you gotta pull at their braid and put glue in their shoes. It's cute!


You might be on to something. I once hate-made out with this NT republican in college when I was kind of drunk, which remains one of my more shameful drunken episodes.


----------



## marybluesky

peyandkeele said:


> i only get irritated with the feelers who go "eww nt types, you think your so smart with your thinking but you cant feel so your not people, blah blah blah.


 In those cases they are jealous of our logic:happy:


----------



## Dania

I don't get picked on... I'd probably do the picking...


----------



## vesper007

Korvyna said:


> *shrug* I married an NT and I pick on him far worse than he picks on me. I thought it was a trade off...we each picked on each other. I feel like I relate more to NTs than any others, so I thought we all just had this playful nature. :cheers2:


Gosh darn it, another NF stealing our men!


----------



## stripedfurball

vesper007 said:


> Gosh darn it, another NF stealing our men!


But is it really stealing if they give it away for free?


----------



## ebae

stripedfurball said:


> But is it really stealing if they give it away for free?


Nothing is free in this world. You give us something. We both know what that something is and I will be the last to complain.


----------



## vesper007

stripedfurball said:


> But is it really stealing if they give it away for free?



Haha true...I'm just commenting on the seeming reluctance of NT guys (or any guys) to prefer NT girls. I suppose STs could have the same problems, but STs end up like Blair Waldorf - pretty but calculating, which has its appeal.


----------



## stripedfurball

vesper007 said:


> Haha true...I'm just commenting on the seeming reluctance of NT guys (or any guys) to prefer NT girls. I suppose STs could have the same problems, but STs end up like Blair Waldorf - pretty but calculating, which has its appeal.


I can see why you would be annoyed, actually. There was this study that I read awhile back, and I'm wondering if it's applicable here, even though this is not related to race at all: basically, it was about how Black women were the least likely to marry outside their race, yet there was a relatively small number of eligible Black men due to higher mortality rates and what have you. 

***BEFORE ANYONE GETS PISSED: I am aware that of these two issues, being Black in America (or anywhere, really) is a lot more dangerous, culturally fraught, and weighted with historical baggage than Myers Briggs factions. I myself am a woman of color in which the same dynamic gets played out in our community, which is why I figured, screw it, and got my needs met elsewhere. End PSA***

Now, given that NT men are a relatively small segment of the population, and that NT women are statistically more likely to prefer the sort of intensely speculative intellectual sparring that comes with that kind of pairing over the more complementary interactions with other sorts of personality types, do you feel that NT men who mate outside your group are sort of selling out, and does this then sort of drive up the cost of NT men on the market, so to speak?

Keep in mind, this is just a hypothesis.


----------



## vesper007

stripedfurball said:


> I can see why you would be annoyed, actually. There was this study that I read awhile back, and I'm wondering if it's applicable here, even though this is not related to race at all: basically, it was about how Black women were the least likely to marry outside their race, yet there was a relatively small number of eligible Black men due to higher mortality rates and what have you.
> 
> ***BEFORE ANYONE GETS PISSED: I am aware that of these two issues, being Black in America (or anywhere, really) is a lot more dangerous, culturally fraught, and weighted with historical baggage than Myers Briggs factions. I myself am a woman of color in which the same dynamic gets played out in our community, which is why I figured, screw it, and got my needs met elsewhere. End PSA***
> 
> Now, given that NT men are a relatively small segment of the population, and that NT women are statistically more likely to prefer the sort of intensely speculative intellectual sparring that comes with that kind of pairing over the more complementary interactions with other sorts of personality types, do you feel that NT men who mate outside your group are sort of selling out, and does this then sort of drive up the cost of NT men on the market, so to speak?
> 
> Keep in mind, this is just a hypothesis.


Oddly enough, I was thinking of this exact thing as I was typing my post. But more as a joke. 

I don't think NT men are "selling out", necessarily. I think there are great people all over the Myers-Briggs. 

I just think I've seen the men on here extol the virtues of all types in relationships _except_ NT women. We see women talk about how much they love NT men, though. 

I would expect that an NT woman who is physically and conventionally attractive and also dresses in a way which society prefers (Kate Middleton, Olivia Pope, what have you) would be the best of both worlds for a guy, i.e. she is physically spot-on, but thinks more like a dude so she doesn't get all emotional and crap. She looks feminine on the outside, but inside she belongs to the world of reason and facts. 

What I do hear is guys saying something like "I prefer an NF, but I could roll with an NT girl as long as she's emotionally aware and not much of a T". Which is kinda weak sauce.


----------



## ENTPness

vesper007 said:


> Haha true...I'm just commenting on the seeming reluctance of NT guys (or any guys) to prefer NT girls. I suppose STs could have the same problems, but STs end up like Blair Waldorf - pretty but calculating, which has its appeal.


This makes no sense. Type has no connection to physical attractiveness. There is no reason an ST woman should be "prettier" than an NT woman. An NT woman could also be "pretty but calculating." And let's face it, more attractive women of any type have an easier time getting guys of any type. Even those NF guys who often deny caring about looks at all and say they really do only care about personality are dirty liars.


----------



## vesper007

ENTPness said:


> This makes no sense. Type has no connection to physical attractiveness. There is no reason an ST woman should be "prettier" than an NT woman. An NT woman could also be "pretty but calculating." And let's face it, more attractive women of any type have an easier time getting guys of any type. Even those NF guys who often deny caring about looks at all and say they really do only care about personality are dirty liars.


Agreed that pretty and ugly people are found all over the Myers Briggs spectrum, but I wanted to control for attractiveness so we're talking about personality here and not appearance. And there is the general stereotype that "S" types are better at "putting themselves together" than N types. 

Take two hot female twins, one being an SJ and the other being an NT. You _couldn't_ imagine them dressing differently? Just from my experience, the SJ would probably put more effort into styling, accessories, making sure things matched _just so_. She'd be up to date with the latest trends and fashion blogs and what celebrities were wearing where and when. 

The NT would throw on a LBD or some other dress because dresses are easiest to look good in and require very little accessorizing. She may or may not accessorize and will probably toss her hair up into a bun because that's easiest. Her nails will be unpolished because _ain't nobody got time for that_ and she'd probably be wearing the wrong shoes. Like flats when she should be wearing heels. And makeup would be more natural, because _ain't nobody got time for that_. 

Or, they'll show up in a James Perse T-shirt and jorts, and try to convince people they're dressed appropriately for the cocktail party because their T-shirt cost $200 (although they probably got it for $20 at a sample sale). 

Most guys would pick the SJ. 

NFs, in my experience, my female NF friends are somewhere in the middle between the two.


----------



## ENTPness

vesper007 said:


> Agreed that pretty and ugly people are found all over the Myers Briggs spectrum, but I wanted to control for attractiveness so we're talking about personality here and not appearance. And there is the general stereotype that "S" types are better at "putting themselves together" than N types.
> 
> Take two hot female twins, one being an SJ and the other being an NT. You _couldn't_ imagine them dressing differently? Just from my experience, the SJ would probably put more effort into styling, accessories, making sure things matched _just so_. She'd be up to date with the latest trends and fashion blogs and what celebrities were wearing where and when.
> 
> The NT would throw on a LBD or some other dress because dresses are easiest to look good in and require very little accessorizing. She may or may not accessorize and will probably toss her hair up into a bun because that's easiest. Her nails will be unpolished because _ain't nobody got time for that_ and she'd probably be wearing the wrong shoes. Like flats when she should be wearing heels. And makeup would be more natural, because _ain't nobody got time for that_.
> 
> Or, they'll show up in a James Perse T-shirt and jorts, and try to convince people they're dressed appropriately for the cocktail party because their T-shirt cost $200 (although they probably got it for $20 at a sample sale).
> 
> Most guys would pick the SJ.
> 
> NFs, in my experience, my female NF friends are somewhere in the middle between the two.


I don't think this is necessarily true, certainly not universally. If you're just talking about "dressing up takes more effort," that's more of a P/J thing than an N/S thing. NJs tend to dress up much more "put together" than SPs, who are more casual. So it's really a P/J thing in particular you're talking about, not N/S. But even then, there are tons of exceptions. And it doesn't really control for attractiveness because a naturally attractive woman who doesn't put much effort into her dress is probably still gonna have an easier time than a naturally unattractive woman who puts tons of effort into every little detail of her dress.


----------



## Lerena

An NT would only pick on an NF if they were immature. It's also quite likely I don't see "picking on an NF" the same way as an NF does. I don't think most NTs actually mean to come across that way, so I think that most NFs probably assume that an NT is picking on them when they aren't. 

On the other hand, I have no doubt that some NTs actually do pick on NFs. Those NTs are just jealous that NFs can use emotions better than them. NTs love to brag about being intelligent, but intelligence doesn't matter in the realm of emotions and that's where they get beaten. NTs often struggle to accept loss. This results in them deciding that emotions must be inferior on the grounds they aren't good with them. But, claiming that emotions are invalid is unhealthy.

Admittedly, I'm not excluded from doing some of the things that I describe. I often hate on the existence of emotions, yet if I was offered a chance to become emotionless I wouldn't accept the deal. Emotions are perfectly valid and I am quite attached to them even though I act like I'm not.



vesper007 said:


> What I do hear is guys saying something like "I prefer an NF, but I could roll with an NT girl as long as she's emotionally aware and not much of a T". Which is kinda weak sauce.


I tried to ignore this. I tried as hard as I possibly could, but I have to respond. Why would a man with any knowledge of what NTs and NFs are want that from an NT female? NT girls aren't going to be as "emotionally aware" as an NF and a T is always going to be a T. Men can't tell a T to be an F. It doesn't work. Their desires aren't just weak: they wouldn't really "roll" with an NT girl. NT females would never accept those conditions. So, I believe the men you hear saying things like that need to become more educated.


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## Swordsman of Mana

NTs pick on everyone who isn't an NT, not just NFs. if you think they're mean to us, just look at how they view Sensors :laughing:


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## stripedfurball

vesper007 said:


> Oddly enough, I was thinking of this exact thing as I was typing my post. But more as a joke.
> 
> I don't think NT men are "selling out", necessarily. I think there are great people all over the Myers-Briggs.
> 
> I just think I've seen the men on here extol the virtues of all types in relationships _except_ NT women. We see women talk about how much they love NT men, though.
> 
> I would expect that an NT woman who is physically and conventionally attractive and also dresses in a way which society prefers (Kate Middleton, Olivia Pope, what have you) would be the best of both worlds for a guy, i.e. she is physically spot-on, but thinks more like a dude so she doesn't get all emotional and crap. She looks feminine on the outside, but inside she belongs to the world of reason and facts.
> 
> What I do hear is guys saying something like "I prefer an NF, but I could roll with an NT girl as long as she's emotionally aware and not much of a T". Which is kinda weak sauce.


Yeeeeah. To be honest, you may have a better idea of what goes on in your forums than I do, and I wasn't completely serious when I said it either, but that's one of those issues that tends to come with heavy disclaimers. I'm not familiar enough with sociology to know what the term is for that particular situation. 

I guess my question is this: have you dated other types much and found it to be definitively unsatisfying? In one of the polls in the INFP forums, INTJ won out as the type that most people had crushes on, but most of us are not paired with them in real life. Maybe part of that is availability, maybe some of it is the unlikelihood of either type to want to be vulnerable, since dating is an emotionally high stakes situation. Also, I'm not really familiar with what goes on in the SJ forums, but it seems like I do see a fair number of posts from NT women that are contentedly paired with XSTJ men (or maybe it's just one of them, idk). From what I can tell, the SJ men would be cool with NT partners, since they dislike drama and would rather not have to deal with people taking things too personally and having emotionally charged discussions with them about things, which is arguably less likely to happen with an NT.


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## VinnieBob

Swordsman of Mana said:


> NTs pick on everyone who isn't an NT, not just NFs.
> 
> 
> it's true
> but for some reason the NF's stick around
> most other types run away screaming bloody murder:shocked:


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## stripedfurball

Vinniebob said:


> Swordsman of Mana said:
> 
> 
> 
> NTs pick on everyone who isn't an NT, not just NFs.
> 
> 
> it's true
> but for some reason the NF's stick around
> most other types run away screaming bloody murder:shocked:
> 
> 
> 
> Ehhh. I only do if I'm related to them (my family), and even then it gets kind of exhausting at times. If I have no familial obligation to people, I tend to bail if someone does something that really hurts my feelings, and it's apparent that the other person doesn't give a shit that they did. I would assume most people would do the same, unless they're gluttons for punishment.
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