# Lying to a person to keep them from breaking up with you.



## Blue Butterfly (Sep 19, 2009)

Mr Anderson said:


> Yet, it's not a win win when someone gets hurt.



Very true. And when I fall I fall hard and deep. My belief is that if I am being open and honest with him he had better be the same with me. Unfortunately very few people are completely honest in a relationship and I have been hurt many times over this.


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## Hiki (Apr 17, 2010)

By the way, There are exceptions to the liars, whores, wandering eyes, strippers, cheaters and the list goes on. 

Stop forgetting that there are exceptions, and SPEAK for yourselves. Some of you who assume that EVERYONE lies. 
I especially don't lie in a relationship. If I feel like I'm even hiding information, I can't stand keeping it inside. I have to let it out or I will be filled to the brim with guilt.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

Thorgar said:


> Everybody lies. Period. This idea that when you are in love everything is in the open is romantic wishful thinking. What matters is how serious the lies are. Infidelity is the worst lie and beyond the pale. However, about 95% of guys lie about porn and masturbation. I would just assume that is the case and not make a lot of moral judgments about it.


I'm going to remind everyone that it isn't about lying in general, or even telling a white lie, but lying about something that you knew would make a person break up with you - which is more serious. 

If I tell my significant other that the dinner he made is delicious, and I really don't find it all that great, is he going to dump me over it? Probably not. But if If he has told me in the past, quite explicitly, that if I begin to lust after another man, he would want to know in order to decide whether or not to leave me - then I would feel obligated to let him know. He deserves the freedom in order to decide whether or not to follow through on what was _clearly stated as a deal-breaker, previously_.

There is a difference.


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## Hiki (Apr 17, 2010)

RighteousRob said:


> lol, I love when someone tries to take the high road and still has to get that jab in, your not fooling anyone but yourself.
> 
> 
> Human nature is simple, everyone thinks its something really complex but it's not, your all just deceiving yourselves. Keep thinking that you know that YOU are different. That is what makes me even more sure, because EVERYONE knows that THEY are different lol. it's like, how much more clear can it get? People are so alike, that they are convinced they are unique.
> ...




I didn't know you and I were born with the same brain/feelings/thoughts/emotions. 
Hey, when I slap myself, do you feel it? That's how alike we are.
So alike, I can't stand it..I'm so jealous and agree with everything you say. 

:crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy:


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## Hiki (Apr 17, 2010)

Cake said:


> Very true. And when I fall I fall hard and deep. My belief is that if I am being open and honest with him he had better be the same with me. Unfortunately very few people are completely honest in a relationship and I have been hurt many times over this.


As if most of the INFPs in the world felt like they didn't have any purpose already- 
Understanding that it's very rare to find someone who matches with us is just rubbing it in.


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## NotSoRighteousRob (Jan 1, 2010)

I believe I was well within the subject of the thread by justifying why people do it. You took it as a personal attack, I made it as a statement for everyone.


Yes, I have lied to a person I was in a relationship with in order to remain in that relationship. yes a person has lied to me in order to keep me in the relationship. Is it vile? How is it any different from any of the other selfish things people do? Is it because it's personal? Is that what matters? well... To most people, yea that's all that matters. Fuck everyone else, they only care about themselves. just a world full of hypocrisy... everyone's attitude is, "well I might as well make sure I'm happy since I can't do anything about it" or "you can't be altruistic all the time or it will destroy you" the fact is someone at some point has to make that sacrifice. everyone keeps waiting for someone else to do it, and it'll probably never get done. 


Lying to keep a person in a relationship is the same as a lie of omission to me.


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## sprinkles (Feb 7, 2010)

RighteousRob said:


> I believe I was well within the subject of the thread by justifying why people do it. You took it as a personal attack, I made it as a statement for everyone.
> 
> 
> Yes, I have lied to a person I was in a relationship with in order to remain in that relationship. yes a person has lied to me in order to keep me in the relationship. Is it vile? How is it any different from any of the other selfish things people do? Is it because it's personal? Is that what matters? well... To most people, yea that's all that matters. Fuck everyone else, they only care about themselves. just a world full of hypocrisy... everyone's attitude is, "well I might as well make sure I'm happy since I can't do anything about it" or "you can't be altruistic all the time or it will destroy you" the fact is someone at some point has to make that sacrifice. everyone keeps waiting for someone else to do it, and it'll probably never get done.
> ...


1. Everyone has hypocrisy, that doesn't mean one doesn't have values or a desire to change.

2. Lying in one area is not a license to lie in every area as a way of avoiding hypocrisy (see 1.)

3. Lying in a relationship where the truth would break the relationship, makes the relationship entirely a lie... and I think the worst thing about that is the guilt of the liar is their own, if the other person believes the lie and really has no clue, they are giving their love under pretenses which are false and that is on the liar... that's what I would call a one sided relationship - one person is having a relationship (the honest one) and the other person is fabricating it to meet their own ends.


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## Narrator (Oct 11, 2009)

Promethea said:


> But if If he has told me in the past, quite explicitly, that if I begin to lust after another man, he would want to know in order to decide whether or not to leave me - then I would feel obligated to let him know. He deserves the freedom in order to decide whether or not to follow through on what was _clearly stated as a deal-breaker, previously_.
> 
> There is a difference.



I'm not sure how to take 'lusting after' so I'll just say I think lusting after another is a given sort've bad, so to explicitly tell the partner it's a subject of little return is overkill a bit. Although I'm not really experienced in such things, so I may well be wrong.


I think if a person needs to lie to their partner to keep the relationship going (cheating, whatever), then it's sort've on a journey to the end/has collapsed part way already. To keep things so under the rug only leaves a growing bulge of lies.. That said I think if a person is setting down rules so strict a person has to lie about them (other than cheating in any way, and maybe racism, or homophobia and the like), it seems a bit more like it's not solely in the hands of the person who lies. One needs to loosen up, to grow a bit more secure, the other needs to grow a bit more secure and to grow some balls.

It depends situation to situation, it's true, and what the lie is, but I think in general compromise is a key issue. Maybe it's where the partner restricts, but does not help the other partner understand, does not let them in, so much? The lier must be aware of the details - emotional, mental, historical - of the issue for their insecure/particular partner.


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## walkawaysun09 (Mar 13, 2010)

sprinkles said:


> 1. Everyone has hypocrisy, that doesn't mean one doesn't have values or a desire to change.
> 
> 2. Lying in one area is not a license to lie in every area as a way of avoiding hypocrisy (see 1.)
> 
> 3. Lying in a relationship where the truth would break the relationship, makes the relationship entirely a lie... and I think the worst thing about that is the guilt of the liar is their own, if the other person believes the lie and really has no clue, they are giving their love under pretenses which are false and that is on the liar... that's what I would call a one sided relationship - one person is having a relationship (the honest one) and the other person is fabricating it to meet their own ends.


And if there's a possibility both people are lying to keep the other person...it becomes a complete clusterf*ck and there is absolutely no hope in it being long-term.


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## sprinkles (Feb 7, 2010)

Liminality said:


> I'm not sure how to take 'lusting after' so I'll just say I think lusting after another is a given sort've bad, so to explicitly tell the partner it's a subject of little return is overkill a bit. Although I'm not really experienced in such things, so I may well be wrong.
> 
> 
> I think if a person needs to lie to their partner to keep the relationship going (cheating, whatever), then it's sort've on a journey to the end/has collapsed part way already. To keep things so under the rug only leaves a growing bulge of lies.. That said I think if a person is setting down rules so strict a person has to lie about them (other than cheating in any way, and maybe racism, or homophobia and the like), it seems a bit more like it's not solely in the hands of the person who lies. One needs to loosen up, to grow a bit more secure, the other needs to grow a bit more secure and to grow some balls.
> ...


I see one main problem with that line of reasoning: this is about lying to keep a relationship. 

I think that implies something that is not a 'minor lie'. That implies something, if known, would be sufficient to end the relationship. That is the main criteria: relationship ending lie. What kind of lie ends relationships may vary from person to person but the fact that it would be a 'deal breaker' is the common denominator here - not whether a person needs to 'loosen up' (which may be true in many cases but it complicates the discussion beyond necessity)


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## Thorgar (Apr 3, 2010)

Breaking an explicit agreement is a breach of trust regardless of its content. That said, I don't think it is wise to try to bind a partner to never "lust after" another. Heck, even Jimmy Carter admitted to this. At least for guys, this happens about 20x / day. It's a fool's game to ask a lover to agree to something that the old reptile part of their brain is going to do regardless. You need to keep your agreements to behavior, not thoughts.


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## NotSoRighteousRob (Jan 1, 2010)

there are relationships that are built entirely on lies that last longer than some built on honesty. Some people need different things to make their relationship work. Thinking that Honesty and happy thoughts will keep you together is naive. Sure maybe some people get by on that, but you can't go saying that it applies to everyone, and if you honestly believe yourself to be an exception than fine.


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## NightSkyGirl (Apr 11, 2010)

> there are relationships that are built entirely on lies that last longer than some built on honesty. Some people need different things to make their relationship work


That is because they were built on lies, not because they were working. A relationship lasting longer on lies does not equal success. It simply means it took that person longer to find out they were with someone who was not worth it. This is my take on it.


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## Hiki (Apr 17, 2010)

Thorgar said:


> Breaking an explicit agreement is a breach of trust regardless of its content. That said, I don't think it is wise to try to bind a partner to never "lust after" another. Heck, even Jimmy Carter admitted to this. At least for guys, this happens about 20x / day. It's a fool's game to ask a lover to agree to something that the old reptile part of their brain is going to do regardless. You need to keep your agreements to behavior, not thoughts.


None of you listen when someone says there are exceptions, and I've known/met many guys like you who speak for all men. It's a way of justifying your shitty behavior toward women. 

By the way, some women also do that.


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## Amenophis (Apr 18, 2010)

Thorgar said:


> Breaking an explicit agreement is a breach of trust regardless of its content. That said, I don't think it is wise to try to bind a partner to never "lust after" another. Heck, even Jimmy Carter admitted to this. At least for guys, this happens about 20x / day. It's a fool's game to ask a lover to agree to something that the old reptile part of their brain is going to do regardless. You need to keep your agreements to behavior, not thoughts.


Oh what fun! Please, stereotype men more! Just know that these things you've stated apply to YOU, not men in general. You really can't make an evaluation about genders in general. There exists only two physical genders, so telling people that they can be only one of two types and then assigning those types rigid behavior or thought patterns is flat out stupid and ignorant. I would expect more from a supposed NT. I would ALSO expect more from someone who is either gay or transsexual.

Guys don't "lust after" someone (or thing) 20+ times a day. Yes, there are people that can't help but want to have sex with anything that is capable of causing sexual pleasure. Yes those people are more likely males. But to say that "For guys" ANYTHING is the case is just foolish.




Wikipedia said:


> _"Sensing and intuition are the information-gathering (perceiving) functions. They describe how new information is understood and interpreted. *Individuals who prefer sensing are more likely to trust information that is in the present, tangible and concrete: that is, information that can be understood by the five senses. They tend to distrust hunches, which seem to come "out of nowhere."[1]:2 They prefer to look for details and facts. For them, the meaning is in the data.* On the other hand, those who prefer intuition tend to trust information that is more abstract or theoretical, that can be associated with other information (either remembered or discovered by seeking a wider context or pattern). They may be more interested in future possibilities. They tend to trust those flashes of insight that seem to bubble up from the unconscious mind. The meaning is in how the data relates to the pattern or theory."_



You're probably not an N. Making an evaluation based on what is immediately apparent is an S type behavior. You looked at the cursory information around you and then decided that guys become lustful of something besides their partner 20+ times a day. An N type would have had the realization that this data is merely part of their social demographic and that other demographics exist beyond what they are exposed to. An N type would have realized that the data collected could be skewed by their own views and thus indicate something that is not true when viewed on a broader scale. An NT would have realized that a broad ranged evaluation such as this would have so many exceptions that it would be completely invalid. 

Perhaps you need to re-evaluate your type.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

I have been seeing a lot of blind pessimism in this thread wrought by bad personal experiences. I see the opinions of jaded individuals, not universal truths. I hope it gets better for you all.


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## walkawaysun09 (Mar 13, 2010)

Promethea said:


> I have been seeing a lot of blind pessimism in this thread wrought by bad personal experiences. I see the opinions of jaded individuals, not universal truths. I hope it gets better for you all.


Yeah, I'm trying to keep mine to a minimum, but I appreciate your concern for us who have been hurt.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

walkawaysun09 said:


> Yeah, I'm trying to keep mine to a minimum, but I appreciate your concern for us who have been hurt.


Oh, I don't mean you. I think it would take a hell of a lot to take away the more sunny disposition that you have. And its comforting to know that there are decent and kind people who don't think everyone's just negative and crappy. So, thanks for that. 

And I'll say that I have been hurt just as much, if not more, than most.. but I refuse to have negative views of all of humanity, and see each individual as just more of the same. I know different.


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## TurranMC (Sep 15, 2009)

I think it's sad that anyone thinks lying to their partner is acceptable.


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## walkawaysun09 (Mar 13, 2010)

TurranMC said:


> I think it's sad that anyone thinks lying to their partner is acceptable.


Yeah, totally agree on that, even after admitting my mistakes of doing it in the past, that's why they are mistakes, and hopefully I can learn from them for my next relationship.


And Promethea, I know, I tend to apologize for other people's negativity, it's a habit I have...if you saw me in person, I often apologize for things I cannot control, like other people's reactions, bad weather, etc.


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## Hiki (Apr 17, 2010)

walkawaysun09 said:


> Yeah, totally agree on that, even after admitting my mistakes of doing it in the past, that's why they are mistakes, and hopefully I can learn from them for my next relationship.
> 
> 
> And Promethea, I know, I tend to apologize for other people's negativity, it's a habit I have...if you saw me in person, I often apologize for things I cannot control, like other people's reactions, bad weather, etc.


I think that's what the ENFJ usually does though. The Givers, right?

You know, I really appreciate the enfj who knows me, because they surprise me with their thoughtfulness. They remember certain things about me and bring it up years later, and tickle me with it.


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## Hiki (Apr 17, 2010)

And prom, you're better off with the liar, especially after the display tonight in the entp chat room. 


He only wanted justification.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

Mr Anderson said:


> And prom, you're better off with the liar, especially after the display tonight in the entp chat room.
> 
> 
> He only wanted justification.


Well, it did give me an outlet for all of that pent up 8ness. I get a bad case of the jollies when I get to open a can of whoop ass on someone deserving, and creatively insult them. 

And thanks.


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

I don't lie in my relationships. It would be way too stressful for me to not present who I really am. I don't want to put on an act. I get paid to act, I don't want to do it in a relationship too. Also, I will never find someone who accepts me for just me if I lie. And then I will feel lonely INSIDE of a relationship. That would suck. Actually, this is why I probably put so many men through almost a test at the beginning. i think I am actually worse in the beginning than later lol. I try to uncover all my negatives. I am open and honest. This is because I am grounded in the reality that everyone tends to be on their best behavior for the first year. But I just know what I tend to do so I try to expose it. Haha. I do it because I don't want someone to leave me later because of it. I know the reality is that they still can, but at least I'm doing my part to keep it real. So no, I don't lie in relationships. I'd rather be alone in my private space than have to lie. And I think I've pretty much always been this way. I just want to make sure someone KNOWS me. I know I have hurt the other person in the relationship too because I am so honest. But I just don't want to cover anything up or play a game.

And um...yeah..my recent ex lawyer lied about everything he really was. He tried to project an image he thought I wanted. Sad, he could only keep up the facade for six months. It is EXTREMELY hurtful, painful, I am still reeling from it. But that is also why I have taken time out from dating afterwards. If I'm to live in honesty, I don't want to have baggage in my next relationship. No one wants me to project my negativity onto them. I don't want to "use someone to get over my ex" and then dump them when I am done. No. That was just done to me. It feels like SHIT. So I will not do this to another person. The next person I am in a relationship with deserves my trust and vulnerability. I want to be honest with myself, make sure that I've had time to get over things so that I can give the way I want to give again.

I personally cannot stand it when someone tries to change themselves for me. I have learned not to divulge my "deal breakers" and just sit back and watch. I have also learned to ask better questions. 

And I really wish love was "magic". That sounds so easy! I could be so lazy and just let the chemicals flow....But no, I was married for 8 years and it only lasted that long because we both agreed that : *love is a daily choice* One day I did stop choosing and I don't regret it either. I still believe and know I can make anything last long time because of an adherence to this belief. But I am really done with the crappy short shit and the fakers. Not worth the effort.


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## Aerorobyn (Nov 11, 2009)

I wouldn't want to be lied to, so I would hope my partner would respect me enough to not lie. 

Some things may be hard for me to get out for some reason, but I'll get it out and tell my partner the truth. I couldn't stand going day-by-day telling someone how much I loved them, knowing that I am also lying to them. 

I've been fortunate enough to, in the past, have an equal number of lying partners and truthful partners. I can usually tell when they're lying to me, but other times it's harder. I must admit that finding out I've been lied to by someone I love is much harder on me than an actual breakup is. I hate, hate, hate being lied to! It hurts. :sad:

Every lying bastard is one step closer to finding a good one though :tongue:


Uhhhh.... Did I answer the question or just ramble on?


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## KyojiK (Apr 14, 2010)

Aerorobyn said:


> I wouldn't want to be lied to, so I would hope my partner would respect me enough to not lie.
> 
> Some things may be hard for me to get out for some reason, but I'll get it out and tell my partner the truth. I couldn't stand going day-by-day telling someone how much I loved them, knowing that I am also lying to them.
> 
> ...


Agreed. Fortunately, for me, if I felt a relationship is not working so well or if I see that by being myself does not suit well for the partner, I can easily leave the relationship without much of a thought. I have no need to lie about anything about me, because quite frankly, I spend enough energy just keeping up trying to socialize with my friends. I would die if I had to put up some silly mask for my g/f. However, I hate how I can break up so easily sometimes, since it sort of makes me wonder just how much I really value relationships to begin with. It's not that I don't take relationships seriously, but for some reason, becoming attached and detached from people is as easy as a finger snap for me.


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## Blood Rose (Nov 14, 2009)

Promethea said:


> Say a person knows that if they told you the truth about the questions you are asking, you would break up with them.. so they lie in order to keep you in the relationship. You have explicitly stated what your deal-breakers are, a few times, and they are 100 percent aware of the fact they they are lying in order to hold on to you.
> 
> Have you done it? Why?
> If not, why wouldn't you?
> ...


I think it'd waste both people's time. Someone can't lie forever, they most certainly can try, but the truth will come out, and it'll make things worse for both people. 

I haven't done this, because i'm not one to waste time with someone that things won't work out with, and it's dishonest. The love that the other person would be feeling would be for this... different person.. that you have fabricated for them, they wouldn't be loving -you-. 

Yes, i've had this done to me. Thankfully I can see through bullshit pretty quickly. I've dealt with it in different ways depending on the situation... for most of them, i'd just broken up with them, and sometimes kept contact, but most of the time I didn't. One of them had cheated on me though, and I found out about that after he had cheated on my best friend (i'd warned him not to break her heart, so I was already pissed that he'd hurt her), so, I pushed him against a locker and questioned why he did that, and slammed him against it a few more times. After that, he was afraid of me, and wouldn't even walk in the same hallway as me. Because I knew he craved attention, I also wrecked his reputation, telling other girls who seemed interested in him exactly what he did. He ended up with barely any friends. His life was hell until he ended up moving. roud:

There is no way to justify it. It is simply wrong.


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## Hiki (Apr 17, 2010)

Oops. I just saw where I posted and meant "You're better off WITHOUT the liar." Sorry for the typo or..err lack there of? lol


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## reyesaaronringo (Dec 27, 2009)

of course you're the best i've ever had and yes i did come.

your porkchops are great. not dry at all.

NO! that dress doesn't make you look fat.

i'll watch whatever you wanna watch.

kale in the vitamix; what a good idea.

your friends are great.

you're right your friend is a bitch.



this is who we are. this is what we do. being upset with someone because they lie is like being upset with a pet for shedding. it's pointless. furthermore i think that "complete honesty" can be overrated. i like a little mystery and distance between myself and my loved one. mystery can be a wonderful thing.

on the other hand these won't fly:

yes that is your baby.

no, he's just a friend.


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## Hiki (Apr 17, 2010)

reyesaaronringo said:


> of course you're the best i've ever had and yes i did come.
> 
> your porkchops are great. not dry at all.
> 
> ...



Look up what the word exception means.


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## reyesaaronringo (Dec 27, 2009)

The act of excepting or the condition of being excepted; exclusion.
One that is excepted, especially a case that does not conform to a rule or generalization.
An objection or a criticism: _opinions that are open to exception._
_Law_. A formal objection taken in the course of an action or a proceeding.
there you go. 

my post was about how lying is kind of what we do. we're so good at it that we can even lie to ourselves. certainly not an exception.

let me give an example.

suppose you're in a car accident with your signifiacant other and it's clearly thier fault. are you gonna take the other drivers side? no you won't. your loyalty to them is more important than the truth in this circumstance. you can always rationalize why it's the other drivers fault and you will because you love them. this is the key property to the examples i gave. 

good thread btw


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## VivaCohen (Jan 8, 2010)

Never done it... I find it vile, yes. I would never continue being with someone if I found out they were dishonest (even on a platonic level) and I think they would deserve the same honesty from me. Disagreements and hard truths I can handle in a relationship, dishonesty I cannot. If I found out a loved one was being dishonest I would cry... a lot.


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## VivaCohen (Jan 8, 2010)

reyesaaronringo said:


> of course you're the best i've ever had and yes i did come.
> 
> your porkchops are great. not dry at all.
> 
> ...


hm, I disagree though. You can still have distance and mystery without lying. I'd much rather have a partner feel comfortable enough with me to be completely honest than lie to me about whether or not a dress is flattering or not to keep from upsetting me. You're right, lying is incredibly common, and I think that's a shame. If you don't like someone's pork chops and you don't want to say they taste bad then find some other way to let them know they could be better. Its not either tell them they taste like crap or lie.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

reyesaaronringo said:


> of course you're the best i've ever had and yes i did come.
> 
> your porkchops are great. not dry at all.
> 
> ...


This is another instance where your "we" excludes people like myself. So, now there is an exception to this. Are there other exceptions? Well that would stand to reason more than me being one in billions.

Lying is a choice. A pet's hair shedding is not a choice. I fail to see the entire point. Basically you are projecting what is within -yourself- onto others. Don't speak for me.

Then again, if you are just speaking for all *liars*, but not all people *in general*, thats fine.. maybe lying does come as naturally to liars as _losing hair_ comes to a.. _dog_?


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## reyesaaronringo (Dec 27, 2009)

Promethea said:


> This is another instance where your "we" excludes people like myself. So, now there is an exception to this. Are there other exceptions? Well that would stand to reason more than me being one in billions.
> 
> Lying is a choice. A pet's hair shedding is not a choice. I fail to see the entire point. Basically you are projecting what is within -yourself- onto others. Don't speak for me.
> 
> Then again, if you are just speaking for all *liars*, but not all people *in general*, thats fine.. maybe lying does come as naturally to liars as _losing hair_ comes to a.. _dog_?


YouTube - THE INVENTION OF LYING Interviews -- Ricky Gervais, Jennifer Garner and Rob Lowe

what a world to live in.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

reyesaaronringo said:


> what a world to live in.


What a world, indeed.. but somehow I think the world looks a lot different to me, than it does to you.


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## Amenophis (Apr 18, 2010)

reyesaaronringo said:


> this is who we are. this is what we do. being upset with someone because they lie is like being upset with a pet for shedding. it's pointless. furthermore i think that "complete honesty" can be overrated. i like a little mystery and distance between myself and my loved one. mystery can be a wonderful thing.



Side note: 

Aren't you the guy from INFPGC that tried to bro-down with the other guys in chat there and tried to make it seem ok to cheat?



Anyway,
What he have here is a misunderstanding of concepts. There is the one concept of willful deception, then there is the concept of untruth.

Defining a lie is as difficult as defining love. They are both catchall terms. Anything that is not fully the truth is a lie. Its easy to inadvertently lie and not even realize it.

Ladies, do you wear makeup? If so, you're willfully altering things to misrepresent yourself to others. Thats worse of a lie than allowing someone to continue believing something that is not true. One lie takes willful action on your part, the other lie gets committed by inaction.


And I'm not at all trying to defend someone like reyes (I remember you from INFPGC buddy), but I can see what he was trying to get at. No one tells the truth all the time. Sometimes they don't know the truth to tell it. Sometimes they don't know that others don't know the truth. Sometimes it isn't their place to tell the truth. Sometimes the truth is readily apparent and the person believing the untruth is at fault. Its all lying. But what you have to understand is that not everyone deceives others.

Again, with the makeup example. Though it is not true, it is not a deception. People (usually) don't wear makeup to try and convince others that its what they really look like. People (usually) wear makeup as a means to decorate themselves and alter their appearance. Most competent people know that someone is wearing makeup.



The intent of the original post had lying as a means of deception, not a lie as in the existence of an untruth. Be careful in the difference of concepts here. 

One more time for the slower among us;

Telling someone something you believe is true but isn't is perpetrating a lie.
Telling someone something you don't believe is true and it isn't is perpetrating a lie *and a deception.*
Allowing someone to continue believing something you know is untrue is perpetrating a lie.
Taking action that causes someone to believe something that is untrue is perpetrating a lie.
Taking action specifically to cause someone to believe something untrue is perpetrating a lie *and a deception.*



As for my opinion on the matter, I already stated it earlier. I just wanted to help clear up what I saw was a misunderstanding of concepts.


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## lirulin (Apr 16, 2010)

It never really occurs to me to lie. I mean, obviously I think it's vile, but mostly it's just not one of the immediately available options I consider. I may, at most, consider how best to phrase the truth, but even tact is well down on the list, well below, say, grammar and fluency and all that. It's not a matter of having to stop myself, I just...don't consider it. It's stupid. I would rather not compromise and alienate people than pretend to agree. Deception involves considering other people which isn't my first instinct.

A relationship based on that kind of lie is a fucking joke. Anyone who does that is pathetic and needy.


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## InvisibleJim (Jun 30, 2009)

People lie, frequently; we can only be as honest as we can be and I find others less honest than myself. It doesn't matter if you are female or male, this is true.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

InvisibleJim said:


> People lie, frequently; we can only be as honest as we can be and I find others less honest than myself. It doesn't matter if you are female or male, this is true.


This thread initially started out talking about how its not right to lie to someone just to keep them from breaking up with you. I also mentioned several times that some lies aren't these types of lies.

If you know someones 'dealbreakers' and you lie to avoid letting them know that you possess one of these unforgivable qualities, then you are imprisoning that person in a false reality. Its selfish.

People tell lies.. people lie to the police, to their parents.. etc..

This is about lying in a romantic relationship in order to make a person keep hanging on, when you -know- they wouldn't if they knew the truth.

I really hope a few of you who have posted in favor of it, don't actually realize this. If so.. thats so fucked.


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## Amenophis (Apr 18, 2010)

Promethea said:


> I really hope a few of you who have posted in favor of it, don't actually realize this. If so.. thats so fucked.


Thats kinda what I was hoping too. I really don't think people realize what they're saying is that its all cool to deceive someone into being in a relationship with you and that everyone does it. Those kinds of people are commonly known as Con-Artists.


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## beth x (Mar 4, 2010)

I don't think I have ever come across a situation where I have lied as a dealbreaker. I'm just not needy enough or irrational enough to keep something going that's failing. I have have been told lies quite a bit to keep a relationship going. I really suck at lying because my memory doesn't hold on to it too well and a bold faced lie will give me twitches, I've tried. :dry:

It does really shit me to be told day after day the same bullshit and after talks and talks about the same old stuff. You think that you have covered ground and until the day you finally understand what they are saying is only to keep the status quo and they are just being sneaky. Like they are hitting a reset button each time a discussion has ended. Untenable!


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## Hiki (Apr 17, 2010)

When you lie in a relationship you set the other person up for doubts in future relationships. 

Do you not UNDERSTAND the god damned SEVERITY of your shitty lies? 
Truly, only a selfish person would do this to another person. 
It leaves damage for years upon years. 

For a person not to understand this, they clearly are A. Fucking Stupid B. Heartless C. Damaged in the brain

The list goes on.


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