# NF: When the "ideal" turns out to be... not ideal.



## Cheeeese (Jan 26, 2009)

My best friend (ENFP) and I are caught in similar situations.

Both of us have never been pursued by guys up till this point. For years we've shared our dreams of meeting NTs... fortresses, hardened souls, men who needed warmth and light, needed our fire. We dreamed of being seen as the one thing they would let their guard down for... the one thing that could bring out that hidden part of them... precious and treasured, delighted in, all that jazz.

Those two NT guys came around for us within the past month- good friends of ours that have come out of the shadows. An ENTJ for me, an INTJ for her. Both have professed to be captivated by us. And they know us- I mean, KNOW us. The ENTJ wrote this to me as part of a poem:

_"I see your endless thinking, the way your mind weaves this tapestry yet picks up on every strand. You see into me with a curious yet knowing gaze- how is it so, that of me you know so much, and I of you so little?"_

The INTJ is my other best friend, and he's told me how he feels about her. It takes my breath away, to see how much and with what depth he loves her and only her.

The problem is.... neither of us feel anything.

The dreams we had... everything we ever wanted... came around, and we didn't want it. It's not like we were disappointed or anything- in all honesty, these guys live up to the dream. But... something's not right. And we feel guilty, torn inside about why we can't just love them back.

Things are getting even confusing for me. One of the ENTJ's good friends (an INFP) and I are becoming closer friends, and I am ridiculously attracted to him- physically, emotionally, intellectually. (This is a whole issue in itself... yeah. Maybe that should be another thread.) I couldn't believe it at first... he's an NF, and I've always thought I'd want an NT. Just goes to show that the ideal you've set up for yourself may not be... _right_.

I just needed to let this out. And maybe get a little insight. Because we're lost on what to think or do.


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## Blue Butterfly (Sep 19, 2009)

INFP's and ENFJ's are naturally attracted to each other. Date them both for a while and see which ones turns out to be long term. Time will tell the truth about both of them.


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## susurration (Oct 22, 2009)

Ah, I bet this is really hard for you right now. The enfj guilt thing... mm I can only imagine.

I know your desire (and your bestie's too) not to hurt anybody and to care for the feelings of every person in this situation is probably really strong right now. But I'm glad to see you are looking out for your own feelings too. If I were you and your girlfriend, i'd listen to my heart. I'm sure you both have a big, well working ones. Im also certain you could glean some insight on this via cognitive functions and MBTI... but i'm a bit naughty and chuck that all out the window when it comes to love :tongue: 

Perhaps the entj isn't the 'one'? he adds up, but there isn't that 'something'. You mentioned that your ridiculously attracted to the NF. Does he have that 'something'? Are you at the point of thinking 'yeah, i'd like to pursue a relationship with either/or further' as in, you're making a choice between the two, or are still confused about both, and might not pursue either further? I guess asking yourself questions and letting the answers come might give you some clarity. After all, your the best person to consult on this 

Anyway, I'm sure you will make some sound decisions at the end of the day- Good luck Bri


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## Blue Heart (Aug 15, 2009)

Bri said:


> One of the ENTJ's good friends (an INFP) and I are becoming closer friends, and I am ridiculously attracted to him- physically, emotionally, intellectually... I couldn't believe it at first... he's an NF, and I've always thought I'd want an NT.


Yeah, we're 'supposed' to best suited to NT's, but although I really like them as friends, it is the NF's that have always lit my fire. Just me maybe, but when I look back over my life, it has always been NF's that have meant the most to me. Personally I prefer that depth of feeling. I don't know the story on those experts that write the books...


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## thehigher (Apr 20, 2009)

I find myself attracted to intuitives in general. I do find myself more naturally and comfortably attracted to ENXJ's though. They really ground me and bring out the best me usually. But bri I'm super excited/happy for you ! Good choice by the way


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## timtom (Jul 6, 2009)

bri, is this the infp guy with his perfect slow approach that you wrote about a few months ago? i really hope it's working out for the both of you 

edit: i just noticed that guy was an estj. so the slow approach didn't work out... ouch. anyway, at least you are proof that infj's do get attracted to infp's

btw sorry i disappeared without a sign, i forgot checking back after a few days so i read your last reply just a few days ago -- but it was perfect timing; more on that later


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## Alchemical Romance (Nov 26, 2009)

*When the "ideal" turns out to be... not ideal, we strive to make it ideal 
*


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## Cheeeese (Jan 26, 2009)

timtom said:


> bri, is this the infp guy with his perfect slow approach that you wrote about a few months ago? i really hope it's working out for the both of you
> 
> edit: i just noticed that guy was an estj. so the slow approach didn't work out... ouch. anyway, at least you are proof that infj's do get attracted to infp's
> 
> btw sorry i disappeared without a sign, i forgot checking back after a few days so i read your last reply just a few days ago -- but it was perfect timing; more on that later


Haha yeah, the ESTJ did take it realllly slow and ended up telling me how he felt just a few weeks ago, even knowing that I didn't really reciprocate the romantic feelings. But we're still really good friends.

What's really cool is that the INFP has been my friend for a while, but he's been so quiet and closed off that I never really got to know him. He was just another guy. It's amazing how you can sit next to someone in a class, day in and day out, and never really *see* them, or see them but never expect them to see you. But thankfully we did end up "finding" each other. It was another slow approach, involving months of daily crossword puzzles and of course swing dancing :wink: . And though we have mutual romantic interest, we're taking it really slow. It'd be so easy to follow a typical NF-NF relationship pattern: keep diving deeper and deeper, faster and faster. And part of me wants to, to be let into the deepest parts of his complex inner world... but we're pacing it, and it's for the best. It's given me the opportunity to reach a point where I care about him so much that I couldn't possibly sever the relationship like I've done before.

Anyways. Please tell me about YOUR situation!!! Sounds like something went right....???? :laughing:


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## Wanderling (Dec 27, 2009)

Blue Heart said:


> Yeah, we're 'supposed' to best suited to NT's, but although I really like them as friends, it is the NF's that have always lit my fire. Just me maybe, but when I look back over my life, it has always been NF's that have meant the most to me. Personally I prefer that depth of feeling. I don't know the story on those experts that write the books...


According to one of Keirsey's books, as an INFP I should be coupled with an ESTJ. Thankfully I'm not, I'm with an INFJ, and wildly happy!

In English we say "_Opposites attract_", but in French we say the opposite: "_Qui se ressemble s'assemble_": "Those who are alike come together". They're just proverbs... Although psychology and personality types are really interesting (otherwise I wouldn't be here), it's still just a theoretical classification, an approximation (albeit a good one), and it will never completely reflect or contain who we are as individuals. Love can bring anyone together—sure, there's more problems with couplings between certain types, but it doesn't mean it can't work. Just follow your heart, Bri! I wish you all the best.


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## amanda32 (Jul 23, 2009)

Blue Heart said:


> Yeah, we're 'supposed' to best suited to NT's, but although I really like them as friends, it is the NF's that have always lit my fire. Just me maybe, but when I look back over my life, it has always been NF's that have meant the most to me. Personally I prefer that depth of feeling. I don't know the story on those experts that write the books...


Another web site has other NF's listed as INFJ's matches though. I guess it depends on who interprets the info?

If You Are Female, Your Best Matches Are: 
INFJs: Mystic Writers 
INTPs: Scholars
INFPs: Idealistic Philosophers
ESTPs: Wheeler-Dealers

If You Are Male, Your Best Matches Are: 
INFJs: Mystic Writers 
INFPs: Idealistic Philosophers


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## timtom (Jul 6, 2009)

Bri said:


> Anyways. Please tell me about YOUR situation!!! Sounds like something went right....???? :laughing:


Thanks!!  It's interesting at this point, it'll go right or wrong in a few days, I guess. I gotta run now but I've already written about it a few days ago, you can check it out:



timtom said:


> i need some enfj-deciphering work to be done, thank you
> special attention to Bri because she's just awesome at this stuff


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## Trifoilum (Dec 13, 2009)

an interesting case...
But before typology, before compability and ideals, don't we have our hearts first?
Beliefs and imagination sure feeds the dreaming heast of ours, but in the end isn't the heart the sole judge?

I am assuming here, but if you and your friend aren't really interested in them, I suggest admitting to them now and deal with the consequences first rather than going out with a half-hearted conscience, or worse, a heart looking for the greener grass.

Especially if they know your and your bestfriend's type ; that'd made things seen as worse because I think you're not the type to inclinally lie.

If you do have feelings...I'd still suggest choosing one, tho.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Orpheus (Dec 20, 2009)

Hurting said:


> INFP's and ENFJ's are naturally attracted to each other. Date them both for a while and see which ones turns out to be long term. Time will tell the truth about both of them.


Doesn't anybody else think that this might be the source of the problem? That you're "supposed" to be attracted to a certain type?


I for one find that those traits that I admire in the opposite sex; integrity, concern for others, conversation, interest, none of those traits you find that MBTI describes. I don't even know if you could really quantify any of those.


I find I'm naturally attracted to those with emotional depth and creativity. This would imply NFs, but I'm certainly not going to stop and think, "Well, David Kiersey, the man I have no reason to respect have never met in real life, says that I ought to be dating an ENFP, so this ENTP and I might not work out." It would be more about those traits I find in the person instead of those traits that the person is found in.


If you find that emotional fortitude and quick wit aren't for you, then it's not for you.
If you find that it is for you, but the person just doesn't vibe with you, then that person just doesn't vibe.



Doesn't have to be about these stupid letters that we wear like badges or medals.


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## thehigher (Apr 20, 2009)

Orpheus said:


> Doesn't anybody else think that this might be the source of the problem? That you're "supposed" to be attracted to a certain type?
> 
> 
> I for one find that those traits that I admire in the opposite sex; integrity, concern for others, conversation, interest, none of those traits you find that MBTI describes. I don't even know if you could really quantify any of those.
> ...



"arghh they be more like guidelines" -pirates of the carribean


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## Deja Vu (Dec 26, 2009)

I say be honest with yourself like you were with us. Let them know wassup. 

But thats just me. I really don't respect when I, or anyone else, doesn't just go for it. There are no guidelines to success in relationships or in life. There isn't a *set* way about anything - if I do say so myself - so believe in what you are feeling about these _so-called_ ideal types and go for those ones you are vibing with.

As idealistic as I am, I am well aware that my life and no one elses is ideal. It's just the aim. If the world gives you lemons, make lemonade. Work with what you got. And from the look of things you have a pretty nice plate. You have options.


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## Rustang (Dec 31, 2009)

A big intangible I've found, that I'm sure sure correlates to myers-briggs, is confidence.

If you're dating someone with looks and money, but not enough confidence, it can still kill it.

Can your 2 guys be zestful and cocky?!


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## Lilsnowy (Sep 9, 2009)

Have you mentioned chemistry? Chemistry is a powerful attractant and drug. Early infatuation gives you great memories and good feelings that keep it going as you discover if it really works.


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## Stephalump (Nov 14, 2009)

Orpheus said:


> Doesn't anybody else think that this might be the source of the problem? That you're "supposed" to be attracted to a certain type?
> 
> 
> I for one find that those traits that I admire in the opposite sex; integrity, concern for others, conversation, interest, none of those traits you find that MBTI describes. I don't even know if you could really quantify any of those.
> ...


I don't think anyone claims you're *supposed* to be attracted to a certain type...I think it's more what's likely to work with the least fundamental differences to overcome. I mean, we're all attracted to all different types in real life, but what would make us happiest to have in a partner, well, it's kind of a handy thing to have a guideline for. I'm tragically attracted to INTPs, and the difference between being an Fe-dom and a Ti-dom makes me tragically unhappy  . 
I think you should always follow your heart, but there's nothing wrong with be educated about the issues different matches will probably face!
Follow your heart...with knowledge! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Orpheus (Dec 20, 2009)

I think, in a moment, I'll update my footer to say:

"Since you discovered MBTI, how many of you use it as a drunk man uses a light post?"


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## Cheeeese (Jan 26, 2009)

Orpheus said:


> I think, in a moment, I'll update my footer to say:
> 
> "Since you discovered MBTI, how many of you use it as a drunk man uses a light post?"


Hahaha nice. Honestly, I think what my whole situation illustrated was that it's easy to fall into that dependancy. Part of me expressing it was to think through the lesson that I've learned. 

Don't we all, at least subconsciously, want some type of guidelines? Or some kind of safety net to keep us from falling? I think MBTI has kind of been that for me. It gave me an ideal to cling to. But now I'm seeing straight through that:



Bri said:


> Just goes to show that the ideal you've set up for yourself may not be... _right_.


Thank you guys so much for all of your wisdom... I think hearing what you guys had to say helped reinforce the lesson. :happy:



Stephalump said:


> I don't think anyone claims you're *supposed* to be attracted to a certain type...I think it's more what's likely to work with the least fundamental differences to overcome. I mean, we're all attracted to all different types in real life, but what would make us happiest to have in a partner, well, it's kind of a handy thing to have a guideline for. I'm tragically attracted to INTPs, and the difference between being an Fe-dom and a Ti-dom makes me tragically unhappy  .
> I think you should always follow your heart, but there's nothing wrong with be educated about the issues different matches will probably face!
> Follow your heart...with knowledge!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is what I'm focusing on now. I've found that it's okay to recognize certain traits you find attractive, as long as you don't make it more than a guideline.


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