# ENxx, probably ENTP.



## Hyphero (Jun 1, 2013)

ThatOneWeirdGuy said:


> What I said?
> 
> You said that you don't *want* to be an ENFJ. Not "I don't think I'm an ENFJ." So if your decision not to type yourself as an ENFJ is based off of comfort and how much you like the idea, instead of congruence with what the ENFJ is in terms of cognitive functions, you are putting more importance on comfort than truth.
> 
> It's like the belief in the afterlife. It's comforting to do so, so you believe in it and dismiss rational reasoning. It's comforting to believe you are not congruent with the ENFJ for whatever reason, so you decide that you aren't an ENFJ.


I prefer my personality type be true to myself.

I don't think ENFJ fits me, however.


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## ThatOneWeirdGuy (Nov 22, 2012)

Hyphero said:


> I prefer my personality type be true to myself.
> 
> I don't think ENFJ fits me, however.


That contradicts what you said earlier about not _wanting _to be an ENFJ. But okay. Why don't you think ENFJ fits you?


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## Teybo (Sep 25, 2012)

@Hyphero

Are you under 20 years of age?


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## Pelopra (May 21, 2013)

haephestia said:


> I can think of a handful (if that) of ENTP's who are 'spiritual' in any way, shape, or form. If we're looking for a 'higher understanding' in life, it's about specifics (which change often... there's an idea ADD that comes with the type), not 'growth' on some weird axis. Improvisation is HUGE to myself and all of the ENTP's that I know, in both our interactions with others, our daily lives, our future plans... you seem much to preoccupied with both what others think of you (being de-energized by them calling you cruel, and not wanting to hurt anyone) and with these future plans and goals of 'growth' (most ENTP's are willing to take that as it comes) to be an ENTP.
> 
> The thing that seems the most 'off' about your whole questionnaire is the use of all these 'hot terms' like 'innovation' and 'energised' and 'spiritual'. All in all, you just seem way to aware of yourself and what's inside you (especially if you actually give a shit about spiritual growth) to be an ENTP. If you are one, you're not like any one I've ever seen or heard of.



That was unnecessary! Many of us can be quite aware of what's inside of us... And can even be interested in "spiritual growth", although I sort of break out in hives at that particular turn of phrase.
it just usually doesn't involve much of the vocabulary choice the OP used. (Which struck me as sort of Ni, in the sense of being all sorts of the vague fluffery I've never much understood-- Sorry, OP, I'm sure it's not actually vague fluffery for those who appreciate that stuff /unfair stereotyping of Ni)


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## Pelopra (May 21, 2013)

Hyphero said:


> How I lean toward ENTP
> 
> I seek a higher understanding in my life, that is, spiritual. This does not sound ENTP-like at all. I am able to put my intuition to use There are many types of intuition, and am a quick learner with a sharpened mind Type and intelligence correlate extremely loosely (...if at all). I see myself as an intelligent person, and consistently use it See previous note. I am very lively and energetic, and feel very vital as well ...um. okay. (not sure what on earth that has to do with being an ENTP). I am able to use logic to deal with logical situations, and somewhat in politics Does not sound ENTP to me. I see ENTP as the most innovative, and this fits me well stereotype.... I am also not bad at improvisation.
> Important clarification: Ti is not being "logical". Fi, Fe etc can also be "logical", if you mean "make sense, sensible, not irrational".
> ...


.


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## Hyphero (Jun 1, 2013)

Teybo said:


> @Hyphero
> 
> Are you under 20 years of age?


I'm currently 16.

And sorry for being intensely indirect.


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## ThatOneWeirdGuy (Nov 22, 2012)

Hyphero said:


> I'm currently 16.
> 
> And sorry for being intensely indirect.


Wanna answer my question?


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## Hyphero (Jun 1, 2013)

ThatOneWeirdGuy said:


> Wanna answer my question?


I don't feel Judging in the standard sense. I am more like the properties of Perceiving. And I am pretty individualistic, as in self-expression rather than conformity.


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## ThatOneWeirdGuy (Nov 22, 2012)

Hyphero said:


> I don't feel Judging in the standard sense. I am more like the properties of Perceiving. And I am pretty individualistic, as in self-expression rather than conformity.


Do you want to be typed based on functions, the real MBTI, or dichotomies created by Kiersey's own stupid version of MBTI? 

If you chose the former, then your reasoning is completely irrelevant.


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## Hyphero (Jun 1, 2013)

ThatOneWeirdGuy said:


> Do you want to be typed based on functions, the real MBTI, or ridiculous dichotomies created by Kiersey's own stupid version of MBTI?
> 
> If you chose the former, then your reasoning is completely irrelevant.


The real MBTI, which is the one that matters.

I don't want functions to decide what my personality type is, and dichotomies assume too much.


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## ThatOneWeirdGuy (Nov 22, 2012)

Hyphero said:


> The real MBTI, which is the one that matters.
> 
> I don't want functions to decide what my personality type is, and dichotomies assume too much.


Well, the function order in accordance to MBTI standards is what makes your "type" in MBTI, so if you want to be typed in the MBTI model, but then don't want the functions to identify your personality (MBTI isn't even personality typology, but whatever), that's a bit of a contradiction. 

The functions is the real MBTI. You were using the dichotomies when you said "I'm not a J." So give me a line of reasoning based on the real MBTI model of why you do not think you're an ENFJ.


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## Pelopra (May 21, 2013)

Hyphero said:


> I don't feel Judging in the standard sense. I am more like the properties of Perceiving. And I am pretty individualistic, as in self-expression rather than conformity.


so then stop assuming that you're not a J based on a bunch of badly phrased J descriptions that were mostly *S*J stereotypes


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## Hyphero (Jun 1, 2013)

ThatOneWeirdGuy said:


> Well, the function order in accordance to MBTI standards is what makes your "type" in MBTI, so if you want to be typed in the MBTI model, but then don't want the functions to identify your personality (MBTI isn't even personality typology, but whatever), that's a bit of a contradiction.
> 
> The functions is the real MBTI. You were using the dichotomies when you said "I'm not a J." So give me a line of reasoning based on the real MBTI model of why you do not think you're an ENFJ.


If we have to do it by functions, I think Ne-Fi-Te-Si seems the best, as Fi is described as "internal values", and Fe sounds a lot like ethics to me.

I'm more of an internal values person.

But this throws in the unrelated possibility of Fi-Ne-Si-Te, which isn't extroverted.

This all just seems to throw me off balance. To do myself a favor, I'm going to type myself as ENFP, just to be safe.



Pelopra said:


> so then stop assuming that you're not a J based on a bunch of badly phrased J descriptions that were mostly *S*J stereotypes


I'm getting mixed signals from this. This is helpful, but it's phrased in a way that might be harsh.


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## Pelopra (May 21, 2013)

Hyphero said:


> If we have to do it by functions, I think Ne-Fi-Te-Si seems the best, as Fi is described as "internal values", and Fe sounds a lot like ethics to me.
> 
> I'm more of an internal values person.
> 
> ...


sorry for the harshness.


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## Teybo (Sep 25, 2012)

ThatOneWeirdGuy said:


> The functions is the real MBTI.


This is really incorrect. The dichotomies are the meat of the MBTI. Myers references the functions mostly in passing in Gifts Differing, and groups types together that do not have any shared functions at all: SF, ST, NF, and NT. The actual instrument itself, the test, is literally scored based on dichotomies, not functions.


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## Hyphero (Jun 1, 2013)

Teybo said:


> This is really incorrect. The dichotomies are the meat of the MBTI. Myers references the functions mostly in passing in Gifts Differing, and groups types together that do not have any shared functions at all: SF, ST, NF, and NT. The actual instrument itself, the test, is literally scored based on dichotomies, not functions.


ENFP, but I feel that this has dragged on for too long.

Sorry guys, didn't mean for it to be that long.

It also made me a mess in relation to enneagram.


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## ThatOneWeirdGuy (Nov 22, 2012)

Teybo said:


> This is really incorrect. The dichotomies are the meat of the MBTI. Myers references the functions mostly in passing in Gifts Differing, *and groups types together that do not have any shared functions at all: SF, ST, NF, and NT. The actual instrument itself, the test, is literally scored based on dichotomies, not functions.*


Yes, that's not the real MBTI. The groups are Kiersey's work, and then came the dichotomies which is all complete BS. Either way, it doesn't make it any more legitimate or a very good typology system at all.


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## Teybo (Sep 25, 2012)

ThatOneWeirdGuy said:


> Yes, that's not the real MBTI. The groups are Kiersey's work, and then came the dichotomies which is all complete BS. Either way, it doesn't make it any more legitimate or a very good typology system at all.


Please read Isabel Myers's Gifts Differing. Myers wrote about what things SF's, ST's, NF's, and NT's have in common. Keirsey wrote about what things SP's, SJ's, NF's, and NT's have in common.


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## Hyphero (Jun 1, 2013)

haephestia said:


> I can think of a handful (if that) of ENTP's who are 'spiritual' in any way, shape, or form. If we're looking for a 'higher understanding' in life, it's about specifics (which change often... there's an idea ADD that comes with the type), not 'growth' on some weird axis. Improvisation is HUGE to myself and all of the ENTP's that I know, in both our interactions with others, our daily lives, our future plans... you seem much to preoccupied with both what others think of you (being de-energized by them calling you cruel, and not wanting to hurt anyone) and with these future plans and goals of 'growth' (most ENTP's are willing to take that as it comes) to be an ENTP.
> 
> The thing that seems the most 'off' about your whole questionnaire is the use of all these 'hot terms' like 'innovation' and 'energised' and 'spiritual'. All in all, you just seem way to aware of yourself and what's inside you (especially if you actually give a shit about spiritual growth) to be an ENTP. If you are one, you're not like any one I've ever seen or heard of.


Looking back at this specific post, ENFJ might not seem like a "square peg" after all.


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## Teybo (Sep 25, 2012)

@Hyphero

You're young, and being young will tend to pull you toward the "P" side of things: taking in all there is to see in the world, resisting the structure imposed by parents, teachers, and other authority figures. When you grow a little bit more, you might begin to realize that some of your comfort with "unfettered chaos" is receding. Or not, if you're a P type, who knows?

I think it's great that you are interested in type. I think you should come back to it in 4, 8, and 12 years and see what it can do for you then.

For the moment, I believe that you are a young ENFJ, and you have in your heart all the desires and visions that young ENFJ's possess. Being an NF is slightly more complicated for us males than it is for NF females, but I don't think you should doubt your rationality or your incisiveness. J stands for judgment, not judgmental. It stands for rationality, not bigotry and shortsightedness. At the same time, it's important for J's to recognize that our desire for quick decision making has a cost, just as P-types' desire for delay and open-ended situations has a cost.

If you are genuinely interested in personality type and how it can help you grow as a person, the very best thing you can do is read books by the people who have spent the most time thinking critically about the topic, which includes spending time seeing people in the real world for who they are. I recommend you read Gifts Differing by Isabel Myers, the main creator of the MBTI, and Please Understand Me II by David Keirsey, an ENTP MBTI theorist who saw connections between the MBTI and temperaments that have been talked about in various forms throughout human history. I also recommend Lenore Thomson's book, Personality Type: An Owner's Manual, and Type Talk by Kroeger and Thuesen.

People on the internet have opinions, and sometimes they are right, and sometimes they are wrong, myself included. These books will provide a solid foundation for whatever exploration into type you decide to pursue.

If you want to talk with me further, please feel free to send me a personal message.


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## Psychopomp (Oct 3, 2012)

DISCLAIMER: I am providing insights that aren't based on any major source material such as MBTI, Keirsey, etc. Mostly this is all just a collection of insights and impressions I have. Please take anything useful from this as you see fit and realize that I am not any sort of authority or expert... just a random dude on the internet off on a tangent.


* *






Hyphero said:


> *1. Is there anything that may affect the way you answer the questions? For example, a stressful time, mental illness, medications, special life circumstances? Other useful information includes sex, age, and current state of mind.*
> 
> I assume only age, and possibly a bias, would be a factor in this. I'm not under stress despite being very close to exams. I don't feel like a mental illness would affect my results. I'm not on any medications.
> 
> ...





I'd have naturally guessed INFJ, and I suppose I still do. Since you identify extrovert, I'll not abjure. I've noticed that a lot of INFJs describe themselves as fundamentally logical creatures.... 'cerebral' is a word I've heard used by an INFJ who chafed at the description of being primarily emotional or, essentially, the Fe descriptions which are more accurate to the ESFJ stereotype. I've had an INFJ tell me he felt like he was a machine or a robot inside. He made his room look like the Borg cube thingy (he is impressive in that way) and his only expression of Fe was a strong sense of social justice... however, he was very expressive of support and love to those things he values. Always 1000% available as a support to people he cares about... leveraging his intuition to make intuitive leaps to know what he is meant to say. He goes for long walks to grow his spiritualism. He wears a carefully selected item around his neck as he does so. When prompted, he will leave it in some place and he feels like he puts his energy into the world and into lives of people he can't otherwise reach in that way. He is the first to admit that it's not a very objective way of looking at it but Ni is just not an objective thing. I can't imagine an ENFP doing this or something like this considering how objective Ne tends to be in this regard. 

On the subject of T vs F, I believe it's a false dichotomy. The MBTI dichotomy makes it a question of preference, recognizing that both exist in a person but one is preferred.... the function perspective that I have hijacked and add my own subjective views into says it's Fe/Ti or Ti/Fe or Te/Fi or Fi/Te. It further says that if in the middle they can vie for power and be conflated. INFJ would be in this situation. Ti would be strong and would be the main internal processing mechanism... lots of logic, even convoluted logic, lots of internalizing the analysis process... when values come up they tend to be shared and expressive and global rather than strongly internalized and personal. I think you are very clearly Fe/Ti ... Fe is a comfortable given and you seem to use it with confidence and authority... like I said before, I've seen more than once an xNFJ cite Ti as their 'internal' or 'core' process... I don't know if that is true of you, but that is what I have seen from people who I think are xNFJs. In fact, I am just now realize that it is... .men? that seem to report this confusion most? An ENFJ friend has long since said something to the effect, "I am a very logical person... I agree that ENFJ is right, but I am definitely not a 'feeler'." He judges what he sees around him through the lense of objective universal values/morals confidently and easily (not draining) but in his mind it's slow careful logic (Ti).

As a rule, ENTP would be at least less comfortable or inclined to the level you seem to portray. In my experience it's no contest and a very clear distinction.. but that is hard to make in this medium. I don't have the vaguest of inclinations to type you ENFP... I think you are distinctly unlike an ENFP...except in the one big way that xNFP/xNFJ are similar... and that is focus on humanities and ... well, NF stuff! An INFP close friend who is married to an ENFJ says, 'our interests and the sorts of things in the world that catch our eye are very in sync... but from a cognitive standpoint, it ends there' - the differences being mostly those I've hinted at in my responses. 

Again, this is all totally subjective heretical theorycraft, so take it how you will (it's innovative!!).


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