# Sleep issues



## Tad Cooper (Apr 10, 2010)

Hi all,

Just wondering if anyone has any tips for helping with sleep?
I cut out caffeine and don't eat that much sugar, I drink a decent amount of water/green tea and have a winding down period before bed (I read comics or books in a low-light environment).
I find that I take ages to drift off, wake up for a while in the night (either a long spell awake or short and many) and then wake up early (5:30am etc).

Any ideas or anecdotes would be great!


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## Jddadio85 (Apr 20, 2016)

Have you tried melatonin? How much/often to you exercise and for how long?


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## That.crazy.INFP (Apr 27, 2016)

I would recommend trying EHT, it is a supplement sold through a MLM called nerium. You could also try increasing your healthy fat. Another thing you could try is writing down three things you're grateful for before bed to put your mind in a more positive state.


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## Mercedene (May 6, 2016)

have you tried to drink chamomile tea before go to bed?
maybe it could help.
it makes you relax


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

@Tad Cooper
First of all, quit the green tea as it has caffeine in it.

I think the all the above mentioned are good suggestions.
I used to drink chamomille tea to combat insomnia side-effect caused by my antidepressants (it only lasted for 10-15 days), but I put 3 tea bags in 1 cup and it was strooooong. I think I had the best sleep ever with this. So I suggest you definitely try this.
Other than that, melatonin supplements could work, I know my SO takes them every now and then if it's hard for him to sleep. Exercise is also important as it tires you out and makes sleeping easier.
I also suggest you explore why you can't sleep from a psychological point of view. I used to have huge problems sleeping some years ago due to anxiety and stress that kept me awake as my mind would just not shut up.


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## Tad Cooper (Apr 10, 2010)

Jddadio85 said:


> Have you tried melatonin? How much/often to you exercise and for how long?


I havent actually! I walk everywhere all the time and lift weights. Im pretty physically fit etc.



That.crazy.INFP said:


> I would recommend trying EHT, it is a supplement sold through a MLM called nerium. You could also try increasing your healthy fat. Another thing you could try is writing down three things you're grateful for before bed to put your mind in a more positive state.


Hmm those are interesting! Im curious about the fats thing though - I get told I dont eat enough fat and sometimes not enough protein (I eat a lot of vegetables).



arya_stark said:


> have you tried to drink chamomile tea before go to bed?
> maybe it could help.
> it makes you relax


I'll have a go 



Red Panda said:


> @_Tad Cooper_
> First of all, quit the green tea as it has caffeine in it.
> 
> I think the all the above mentioned are good suggestions.
> ...


Those sound like good ideas, I'll give it a go 

Thanks for all the advice, everyone!


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

Tad Cooper said:


> Those sound like good ideas, I'll give it a go
> 
> Thanks for all the advice, everyone!


You could also try stretching for a while before bed so you release any tension and breathe deeply during, to relieve stress as well.


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## shazam (Oct 18, 2015)

I don't recommend this but you could have drink. A beer or glass of wine. Whatever you're into. As long as it's not abused, plus I heard that a glass of wine a day is good for you. So you could have a drink, chill and do whatever it is to wind down. It's classy in my opinion, as long as you don't fall up the stairs.


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## Echoe (Apr 23, 2012)

The only new suggestion I have is deep breathing -- get in a comfortable sleeping position and breathe into your lower abdomen until you've filled it over the count of 5 seconds, and then breathe it all out over another 5 seconds. This article from sleepfoundation.org has a more detailed guide of this that targets avoiding distracting thoughts, https://sleepfoundation.org/insomnia/content/relaxation-exercise


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## Tad Cooper (Apr 10, 2010)

Red Panda said:


> You could also try stretching for a while before bed so you release any tension and breathe deeply during, to relieve stress as well.


Stretching might be good...I tend to ache a lot (unsure why, just one of those things I guess?) and a person who massaged me said my body was insanely tense (not sure how to combat that, as Im just a very anxious/stressed person - easily overwhelmed but wont show it)



spidershane said:


> I don't recommend this but you could have drink. A beer or glass of wine. Whatever you're into. As long as it's not abused, plus I heard that a glass of wine a day is good for you. So you could have a drink, chill and do whatever it is to wind down. It's classy in my opinion, as long as you don't fall up the stairs.


Haha, it's actually how a lot of people used to get to sleep so it would work - apparently theyd give brandy/whisky with sugar in to babies to make them go to sleep, especially when teething! Sad thing with me is 1) I have a VERY high tolerance for alcohol 2) I don't really enjoy alcohol 3) It plays havoc with my blood sugar levels (Im hypoglycemic) 4) There's a history of alcoholism in my family so Id be very wary of relying on it for anything....



Echoe said:


> The only new suggestion I have is deep breathing -- get in a comfortable sleeping position and breathe into your lower abdomen until you've filled it over the count of 5 seconds, and then breathe it all out over another 5 seconds. This article from sleepfoundation.org has a more detailed guide of this that targets avoiding distracting thoughts, https://sleepfoundation.org/insomnia/content/relaxation-exercise


I did do deep breathing for a long time and find it calms me down really well, but I cant seem to sleep even after ages of it (I also have a big problem staying asleep, so even when I do get to sleep I'll only sleep a couple of hours then be awake again). It does make me feel better and more relaxed though!


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

Tad Cooper said:


> Stretching might be good...I tend to ache a lot (unsure why, just one of those things I guess?) and a person who massaged me said my body was insanely tense (not sure how to combat that, as Im just a very anxious/stressed person - easily overwhelmed but wont show it)


Yes, stretching feels amazing but you're going to have to have a longer session with calm music and low lights and deep breathing to really feel the benefits of relaxation. I say this because I do a stretching lesson at the gym and it makes a lot of difference than when I stretch by myself. 
If you are a stressed and anxious person then it's reasonable that you have trouble sleeping and I suggest you work on that on a long-term level, and don't be afraid to ask for help from a therapist or self-help stuff. Do what you can to improve your quality of life.


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## Vahyavishdapaya (Sep 2, 2014)

Ganja > tea


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## Miss Bingley (Jun 28, 2013)

I've tried everything - melatonin, tea, breathing, turning off electronics. If you find something that works, let me know! What seems to work at least a little for me is reducing the blue light on my computer/phone.


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## ShadowsRunner (Apr 24, 2013)

I find getting into shape as surprisingly worked and just making sure eating a diet where nothing in particular has a really strong stimulating effect, or negative or worse.

I don't even excercise THAT much, outright excercise and it's still benefited me. It just compeltely changed my ability to sleep well or properly for some reason.


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## Rhonda Rousey (Sep 22, 2015)

Sleepy time tea.


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## Tad Cooper (Apr 10, 2010)

Red Panda said:


> Yes, stretching feels amazing but you're going to have to have a longer session with calm music and low lights and deep breathing to really feel the benefits of relaxation. I say this because I do a stretching lesson at the gym and it makes a lot of difference than when I stretch by myself.
> If you are a stressed and anxious person then it's reasonable that you have trouble sleeping and I suggest you work on that on a long-term level, and don't be afraid to ask for help from a therapist or self-help stuff. Do what you can to improve your quality of life.


I'll give it a go! I do stretch, but because of being hypermobile I dont push it too far (joints can pop out haha). The therapy thing doesnt help me sadly....I had only one therapist who helped me and she was a specialist for eating disorders, so once that was better she couldnt continue helping me (I had a bunch of others, but cant afford private ones - I went to NHS ones who arent very good).



R.E. Amemiya said:


> Ganja > tea


Ganja? What sort? 



Miss Bingley said:


> I've tried everything - melatonin, tea, breathing, turning off electronics. If you find something that works, let me know! What seems to work at least a little for me is reducing the blue light on my computer/phone.


I'll let you know! I have d.flux on my computer to help reduce blue light, but I also dont use my laptop/phone near bed (I read in a dim room for an hour or so) so dont think thats an issue! 



Meteoric Shadows said:


> I find getting into shape as surprisingly worked and just making sure eating a diet where nothing in particular has a really strong stimulating effect, or negative or worse.
> 
> I don't even excercise THAT much, outright excercise and it's still benefited me. It just compeltely changed my ability to sleep well or properly for some reason.


The annoying thing is I am actually pretty fit (lift weights, walk everywhere - I live on a big hill and can walk for 12 hours without feeling anything, can run for a long time but dont because I dont want arthritis in my knees, can swim a mile of breaststroke in under an hour without feeling it etc) so I dont think lack of exercise is the problem xD Im generally pretty mentally and physically exhausted anyway!


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## Aridela (Mar 14, 2015)

I used to have sleep issues when I was back in Uni. In my case at least it was due to disrupted sleep patterns and lack of exercise/balanced diet. 

Try sleeping before midnight and waking up at about the same time each day. Routine helps. Walking for 30 mins to an hour outdoors will help you get your exercise and boost your melatonin/vit D production. 

Don't overdue refined carbs and sugars, and try including lots of fiber and fresh veg/fruit into your diet.


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## ShadowsRunner (Apr 24, 2013)

smoke weed!!!!


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## Vahyavishdapaya (Sep 2, 2014)

Meteoric Shadows said:


> smoke weed!!!!


So much this.

As for what kind, well I wouldn't know since my dealers don't bother finding out. Right now Westside dope be kicking the shit out of East side dope, though it hasn't always been like this. Regardless of where it's sourced all weed in Sydney is indo, hydroponically grown indoors. I speculate most of it is Agent Orange but I can't be sure. One dude up in Canley has got White Widow.


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## ShadowsRunner (Apr 24, 2013)

R.E. Amemiya said:


> So much this.
> 
> As for what kind, well I wouldn't know since my dealers don't bother finding out. Right now Westside dope be kicking the shit out of East side dope, though it hasn't always been like this. Regardless of where it's sourced all weed in Sydney is indo, hydroponically grown indoors. I speculate most of it is Agent Orange but I can't be sure. One dude up in Canley has got White Widow.


The weed is Agent Orange? what do you mean...?


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## Vahyavishdapaya (Sep 2, 2014)

Meteoric Shadows said:


> The weed is Agent Orange? what do you mean...?


Somebody asked me what kind of weed.

https://www.leafly.com/hybrid/agent-orange


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## Tad Cooper (Apr 10, 2010)

Rhonda Rousey said:


> Sleepy time tea.


I had this once, but maybe should try it for a week and see 



Aridela said:


> I used to have sleep issues when I was back in Uni. In my case at least it was due to disrupted sleep patterns and lack of exercise/balanced diet.
> 
> Try sleeping before midnight and waking up at about the same time each day. Routine helps. Walking for 30 mins to an hour outdoors will help you get your exercise and boost your melatonin/vit D production.
> 
> Don't overdue refined carbs and sugars, and try including lots of fiber and fresh veg/fruit into your diet.


Okay, done those  (I walk for more like 1-4 hours outside everyday, eat tons of veg, some fruit, dont eat much sugar or refined carbs etc, am in bed by 11pm latest weekdays and most weekend, get up around 7am for work everyday or 8-9am weekends)



Meteoric Shadows said:


> smoke weed!!!!


Haha I dont really want to start any bad habits xD


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## shazam (Oct 18, 2015)

Tad Cooper said:


> Haha, it's actually how a lot of people used to get to sleep so it would work - apparently theyd give brandy/whisky with sugar in to babies to make them go to sleep, especially when teething! Sad thing with me is 1) I have a VERY high tolerance for alcohol 2) I don't really enjoy alcohol 3) It plays havoc with my blood sugar levels (Im hypoglycemic) 4) There's a history of alcoholism in my family so Id be very wary of relying on it for anything....


I don't know about babies...but really? What about hot chocolate, it's so nice and underrated. That's how I roll. I don't know about teas. What about eating before you go asleep...I can't sleep on an empty stomach so. You know that hot drink lemsip, don't take that. It's made for cold and flu symptoms and instead of an arm on the shoulder like a cigarette, drinking it feels like you're being wrapped in a warm blanket. It's paracetamol (pain killer) you can get in 500 or 1000 mgs. I saw the 1000 for sale and said fuck that. There's no way I'd get it. I had a cold.


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## Rhonda Rousey (Sep 22, 2015)

Tad Cooper said:


> I had this once, but maybe should try it for a week and see
> 
> 
> Okay, done those  (I walk for more like 1-4 hours outside everyday, eat tons of veg, some fruit, dont eat much sugar or refined carbs etc, am in bed by 11pm latest weekdays and most weekend, get up around 7am for work everyday or 8-9am weekends)
> ...


He's right, tho. medicinal marijuana might be useful for sleep too!


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## ShadowsRunner (Apr 24, 2013)

I have had sleep issues my whole life and I guess combining melatonin and marijuana for those really difficult nights or periods has helped. It's like instant sleep! and way safer then sleeping pills.

Some strains really relax your muscles as well, and I feel like help you "resist" your mind/brain and at times ease your worries and let them go away.


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## Tad Cooper (Apr 10, 2010)

spidershane said:


> I don't know about babies...but really? What about hot chocolate, it's so nice and underrated. That's how I roll. I don't know about teas. What about eating before you go asleep...I can't sleep on an empty stomach so. You know that hot drink lemsip, don't take that. It's made for cold and flu symptoms and instead of an arm on the shoulder like a cigarette, drinking it feels like you're being wrapped in a warm blanket. It's paracetamol (pain killer) you can get in 500 or 1000 mgs. I saw the 1000 for sale and said fuck that. There's no way I'd get it. I had a cold.


Yeah, the olde days were strange, but I guess it's such a small amount they were given it was safe enough? (I wouldnt give a kid alcohol though, might be a bad drunk!)
I have tried hot chocolate, but worried about the sugar content that close to bed. I tend to have a snack an hour or so before I got to bed (I tend to eat smaller meals in the day, so have some fruit/piece of toast etc in the evening).
I havent had lemsip but heard it's nice! I wonder how much like hot squash it is....something else that can be soothing is drinking a dissolved stock cube - kind of like watery, not too filling soup (doesnt help with my sleep but is nice!)



Rhonda Rousey said:


> He's right, tho. medicinal marijuana might be useful for sleep too!


I really don't like the idea of doing anything illegal...



Meteoric Shadows said:


> I have had sleep issues my whole life and I guess combining melatonin and marijuana for those really difficult nights or periods has helped. It's like instant sleep! and way safer then sleeping pills.
> 
> Some strains really relax your muscles as well, and I feel like help you "resist" your mind/brain and at times ease your worries and let them go away.


It does seem good, but again, dont like the idea of relying on an illegal substance or addictive substance.....


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## ShadowsRunner (Apr 24, 2013)

Tad Cooper said:


> Yeah, the olde days were strange, but I guess it's such a small amount they were given it was safe enough? (I wouldnt give a kid alcohol though, might be a bad drunk!)
> I have tried hot chocolate, but worried about the sugar content that close to bed. I tend to have a snack an hour or so before I got to bed (I tend to eat smaller meals in the day, so have some fruit/piece of toast etc in the evening).
> I havent had lemsip but heard it's nice! I wonder how much like hot squash it is....something else that can be soothing is drinking a dissolved stock cube - kind of like watery, not too filling soup (doesnt help with my sleep but is nice!)
> 
> ...



But it can feel so good...to be bad.....


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## shazam (Oct 18, 2015)

Tad Cooper said:


> Yeah, the olde days were strange, but I guess it's such a small amount they were given it was safe enough? (I wouldnt give a kid alcohol though, might be a bad drunk!)
> I have tried hot chocolate, but worried about the sugar content that close to bed. I tend to have a snack an hour or so before I got to bed (I tend to eat smaller meals in the day, so have some fruit/piece of toast etc in the evening).
> I havent had lemsip but heard it's nice! I wonder how much like hot squash it is....something else that can be soothing is drinking a dissolved stock cube - kind of like watery, not too filling soup (doesnt help with my sleep but is nice!)


Well yeah of course..lol. Yeah, just don't put any sugar in the cup.. Cadburys are nice. Same...a ham and cheese on the George. I have two banana's in the morning. I always tend to eat so much more when I don't eat a good breakfast. I should really try. I can get up earlier. Yes absolutely, lemsip is nice but it's bad for you. It's a drug. In the long run and even starting out, that stuff is good for what it says. Even with a cold, it's fine if it's effecting your priorities, but if you're using it to battle on through it's a no go. 
Yeah a hot squash sounds nice, what about a smoothie, they're nice. Those cubes with soup (I know it's soup) are lovely. Marco Pierre White. I like the thick stuff, especially when it comes to gravy. Soup is lovely. What about gardening? Or that feeling that gives you a sense comfortable accomplishment? It's a great one.


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## Rhonda Rousey (Sep 22, 2015)

Tad Cooper said:


> Yeah, the olde days were strange, but I guess it's such a small amount they were given it was safe enough? (I wouldnt give a kid alcohol though, might be a bad drunk!)
> I have tried hot chocolate, but worried about the sugar content that close to bed. I tend to have a snack an hour or so before I got to bed (I tend to eat smaller meals in the day, so have some fruit/piece of toast etc in the evening).
> I havent had lemsip but heard it's nice! I wonder how much like hot squash it is....something else that can be soothing is drinking a dissolved stock cube - kind of like watery, not too filling soup (doesnt help with my sleep but is nice!)
> 
> ...


it's legal, you just get a doctor prescription.


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## Empower (May 14, 2016)

My personal remedies:

*1.* The day is as important as the night: fresh air, exercise, sunlight, drinking enough water are all beneficial to promote better sleep

*2.* Meditation/breathing: listening to relaxing music as well as focusing on deep and steady breathing. Mindfulness has also helped many and there are good apps

*3.* Essential oils: lavender is especially helpful to promote sleep

*4.* Media: stimulation from screens before bedtime can prolong the time it takes to fall asleep as well as disturb the melatonin-process, also turning off all screens an hour before bedtime can really help - read a paper book or magazine instead

*5.* Go to bed at the same time - get up at the same time: no snooze, the body loves routine

*6.* Change the bed-sheets every 2 weeks during September-May and every week from May-September, as well as air out the bedroom every day (cleaning and de-cluttering the bedroom is also smart): this is good to promote a healthy indoor-environment, which is very important in the bedroom

*7.* Limit the electronics in your bedroom, such as TV, mobile, tablets etc. - the less, the better

*8.* Keep it dark when you sleep, turn off even the smallest light sources

*9.* Eating a healthy, whole-foods diet is also very beneficial to promoting good sleep

*10.* Tea: naturally caffeine free is best - chamomile and valerian are both good, but read up on valerian before trying it

*11.* Flower therapy: Bachs flower remedies can help promote sleep as well as good quality sleep

*12.* If you can't fall asleep, get up for about 45 minutes - read a little or drink some tea, but stay relaxed - then try again

*13.* Get blood tests to check the vitamin D level as well as iron, both can play into getting to sleep as well as the quality of sleep

*14.* Know when it's time to seek professional help; there could be underlying issues if normal changes/measures doesn't work

I think this is all  Good luck!


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## Tad Cooper (Apr 10, 2010)

spidershane said:


> Well yeah of course..lol. Yeah, just don't put any sugar in the cup.. Cadburys are nice. Same...a ham and cheese on the George. I have two banana's in the morning. I always tend to eat so much more when I don't eat a good breakfast. I should really try. I can get up earlier. Yes absolutely, lemsip is nice but it's bad for you. It's a drug. In the long run and even starting out, that stuff is good for what it says. Even with a cold, it's fine if it's effecting your priorities, but if you're using it to battle on through it's a no go.
> Yeah a hot squash sounds nice, what about a smoothie, they're nice. Those cubes with soup (I know it's soup) are lovely. Marco Pierre White. I like the thick stuff, especially when it comes to gravy. Soup is lovely. What about gardening? Or that feeling that gives you a sense comfortable accomplishment? It's a great one.


I dont, but it has sugar in it anyway xD Unless you buy cocoa powder which has high caffeine levels?
I had to look up what 'on the George' was, but it's a fun phrase, I might have to use it!!  I find breakfast really hard because of not sleeping (I feel sick all morning usually, until I've been awake for a few hours).
Yeah gravy/stock is amazing! I used to put gravy on vegetables all the time (I love veg, but veg and gravy is even better!)
I dont have a garden, but could see about house plants maybe? I dont know if that's the same...xD



Rhonda Rousey said:


> it's legal, you just get a doctor prescription.


I'm seeing my doc this coming Wednesday, so maybe he'll recommend it xD



Empower said:


> My personal remedies:
> 
> *1.* The day is as important as the night: fresh air, exercise, sunlight, drinking enough water are all beneficial to promote better sleep
> 
> ...


Thanks! i actually do most of those, but havent tried flower therapy or essential oils (I did try joss sticks though?)


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## shazam (Oct 18, 2015)

Tad Cooper said:


> I dont, but it has sugar in it anyway xD Unless you buy cocoa powder which has high caffeine levels?
> I had to look up what 'on the George' was, but it's a fun phrase, I might have to use it!!  I find breakfast really hard because of not sleeping (I feel sick all morning usually, until I've been awake for a few hours).
> Yeah gravy/stock is amazing! I used to put gravy on vegetables all the time (I love veg, but veg and gravy is even better!)
> I dont have a garden, but could see about house plants maybe? I dont know if that's the same...xD


lol, you could buy a plant and call it 'my plant', that way when you say to your friends 'this is my plant', they'll have no idea you named it (mwaha).


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## Tad Cooper (Apr 10, 2010)

spidershane said:


> lol, you could buy a plant and call it 'my plant', that way when you say to your friends 'this is my plant', they'll have no idea you named it (mwaha).


I actually just found out sugar can help you sleep, so maybe sugar is okay!! xD
I should do that, genius!!!!


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## SiFan (Mar 10, 2015)

Tad Cooper said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Just wondering if anyone has any tips for helping with sleep?
> I cut out caffeine and don't eat that much sugar, I drink a decent amount of water/green tea and have a winding down period before bed (I read comics or books in a low-light environment).
> ...


Hi. Tad! (also @Miss Bingley)

*Try 5-HTP* (50mg or 100mg). Taken about an hour before bed, it gets converted to serotonin some of which gets converted to melatonin which gets you to sleep for the night.

(5-HTP is _L5 hdroxytryptophan_, something your body naturally produces when you eat foods containing Tryptophan-- e.g. from eggs, cheese, etc.. Probably, you are not getting enough Tryptophan in your diet to make enough 5-HTP naturally.)

Something which may be overlooked in using 5-HTP is the need for vitamin B6 to produce serotonin from which the sleep-enhancing melatonin comes. B6 comes from many foods, including turkey, beef, and bananas as well as from B6 and B-complex supplements. 

If your body's store of B6 is low, one indication is that taking a B6 supplement in the evening soon leads to drowsiness-- because the B6 enables production of serotonin --> melatonin; and, the melatonin is acting to get you to sleep. In that case it would be best to increase B6 foods or to routinely take a B6 supplement


As a relaxer to help move things along, Valerian (root)-- two 500mg capsules-- can be very helpful; so can Chamomile tea, marijuana, hot milk, champagne, ... . Pain relievers, like a tablet of aspirin or ibuprofen, may help, too. (However, it's best to avoid anything containing acetaminophen, a.k.a. paracetamol, etc., such as Tylenol. It can relieve pain; but, it is toxic, especially to your liver.)

Why "50mg or 100mg"? I don't know what dose will work for you. 50mg worked fine for me; but, some drug stores carry only 100mg; so, now, I usually settle for 100mg. 100mg doesn't seem to get me to sleep any faster, though. If you can, get 50mg tablets and just take two if it turns out that's your best dose.

Information
5-HTP Benefits & Information
5-HTP: Uses, Side Effects, Interactions and Warnings - WebMD

Edit to add: The warnings about possible 5-HTP interactions with several anxiety, depression, etc. drugs are for real. One such interaction is an excess of serotonin leading to "serotonin syndome", which can be life threatening. 

ref. Serotonin Syndrome

If you are currently taking a prescribed 'mood altering' drug, consult with your doctor before taking 5-HTP.

*
Lighting ...* To make sure the 5-HTP can do it's job, it is important to avoid sources of blue light. The blue component of sunlight is a primary signal to your body to _not_ produce melatonin (so that you can stay awake during the day and get stuff done).

At night, when the sun is down, you body will produce melatonin from 5-HTP as long as artificial lighting does not interfer. 

Unfortunately, fluorescent light bulbs (including the twisty kinds) produce lots of blue, as do your TV and computer displays. It takes very little blue light to halt melatonin production. (Incandescent bulbs are okay so long as they are not especially bright.)

In case you would like to use you computer up to bedtime, there is a free application named "f.lux" which will automatically adjust your computer display at night to stay within the incandescent range of light output.

*f.lux® software to make your life better:* Info and Download--> *Here*

Good luck with getting better sleep!









​


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## Tad Cooper (Apr 10, 2010)

SiFan said:


> Hi. Tad! (also @_Miss Bingley_ )
> 
> *Try 5-HTP* (50mg or 100mg). Taken about an hour before bed, it gets converted to serotonin some of which gets converted to melatonin which gets you to sleep for the night.
> 
> ...


5-HTP sounds interesting! Do you know how much of certain foods you need to get it via diet? (Cheaper than supplements maybe?)
I actually have f.lux on my laptop because I was worried about the screen light! I tend not to be on my laptop (or other electronics) when I go to bed - I read books (not even kindle) by lamp light.


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## camous (Jul 12, 2015)

MMh well there are some technics that worked for me. 

The first one was to listening to meditation audio guide. Usually the voice are soothing and in 10 minutes tops I am gone! 
Also breathing exercises helped, like long deep breath and after a while I just fall asleep.

Otherwise I have noticed while living in a place with no electricity for 3 months that my body adjusted to the cycle of the sunlight. AT 6pm it was night and we used candle light. The thing is that candle light wasn't strong enough to keep us awake I guess so by 8pm we were all too tired to be up! If you use your computer you could try f.lux. It changes the color t° of your screen, because usually the light of computer is strong and similar to daylight so your mind won't really realize that it's time for bed. 

I hope it helps!


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## ShadowsRunner (Apr 24, 2013)

marijuanmarijuanamarijuanamarijauammarijuanamarijuanamarijuana


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## Tad Cooper (Apr 10, 2010)

camous said:


> MMh well there are some technics that worked for me.
> 
> The first one was to listening to meditation audio guide. Usually the voice are soothing and in 10 minutes tops I am gone!
> Also breathing exercises helped, like long deep breath and after a while I just fall asleep.
> ...


My sister did Zazen mediation in Japan so I could ask her about it? I find breathing exercises relaxing, but they dont make me fall asleep or stay asleep...
I do use f.lux already and recommended it to an insomniac friend xD



Meteoric Shadows said:


> marijuanmarijuanamarijuanamarijauammarijuanamarijuanamarijuana


Id rather not rely on substances xD


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## telepariah (Jun 20, 2011)

Weed is certainly not for everyone. But for me, it is neither a bad habit nor an addiction, nor is it even illegal. Totally legal now in Colorado. I use mainly indicas and they do help me get to sleep and stay asleep, in addition to the many other benefits. It makes my chronic nerve pain bearable. It calms my nerves and makes me less anxious and less prone to rumination about shit that happened to me during my work day. Sativas will keep me up all night. I buy an eighth of an ounce about every three months for US $20 when it doesn't magically appear for free (which does happen quite often). I take a single puff once or twice a day and it easily lasts that long. So it's not expensive, it doesn't affect my ability to work and in fact, makes me more productive when I am doing a lot of development work. It's legal. And it smells delicious to me.

Other things that help me are being busy and tired when I come home. We try to eat dinner as early as possible so I have a few hours to digest my meal. I sleep much better if I do not drink any alcohol. And I don't take bright screens to bed with me. If I read, it's from a book. Even books I love wil put me to sleep if I am ready.


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## SiFan (Mar 10, 2015)

Tad Cooper said:


> 5-HTP sounds interesting! Do you know how much of certain foods you need to get it via diet? (Cheaper than supplements maybe?)
> I actually have f.lux on my laptop because I was worried about the screen light! I tend not to be on my laptop (or other electronics) when I go to bed - I read books (not even kindle) by lamp light.


Good on having f.lux on the computer and aiming for minimal lighting at bedtime.

Yes, for sure you can go with foods that promote production of 5-HTP --> serotonin --> melatonin. What you want is foods rich in Tryptophan. Here's a chart ...









ref. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tryptophan#Dietary_sources
note: Recommend avoiding Soy; it's poison. (SiFan)

Example: Let's try eggs. The typical "Large" egg weighs about 2 ounces (56.7 grams). Subtracting 10% for the shell, you get about 51 grams of food. So 2 eggs comes to about 100 grams. From the chart you find that from 100 grams of egg you can expect 0.17 grams or 170 milligrams of Tryptophan.

So, how much Tryptophan do you need from food to get good sleep? Don't know. Since the Tryptophan is coming from food we can figure it is very 'bio-available'. So, you may not need as much as you might when taking Tryptophan powder in capsules. For me, about 4 eggs during a day, possibly with some cheese and chicken, seems to be enough-- i.e. I skip taking 5-HTP and fall asleep fine.

The recommended dose of Tryptophan powder for sleep varies quite a lot, from 250 mg to 1 gram (1000 mg) on up. Fairly typical is 1000 mg -1500 mg.

This article is well worth a read ... *Better Brain Chemistry with Tryptophan*.

This article covers a good range of sleep enhancement approaches ... *HOW TO GET A GOOD NIGHT'S SLEEP... TONIGHT!*. It talks alot about using Tryptophan (from food and powder). Worth noting that niacin (B3) gets mentioned as a sleep aid, since niacin is the other main product of Tryptophan (besides 5-HTP --> serotonin --> melatonin).

As mentioned in my original (edited) posting here, a critical variable for producing serotonin and melatonin is Vitamin B6. If your body's supply of B6 is low you may not make enough serotonin and melatonin. 

You can view a listing of foods rich in B6 here ... *Top 10 Foods Highest in Vitamin B6*. Interesting that turkey appears in both the Tryptophan and B6 lists-- could explain why Thanksgiving turkey famously produces sleepiness.

A good B-complex supplement may be worth considering, as well.

Brings us to the question of timing. I eat stuff (including a banana or two = B6) at various times during a day, mostly some time after noon. Those suggesting taking Tryptophan powder usually recommend doing it a couple hours or so before bedtime or "at bedtime" (which seems kind of late unless the meaning is broadly "around bedtime"). Other times, people just talk about eating some high-Tryptophan food 'during the day'.

My suggestion is to go with high-Trytophan foods and B6 at least partly some time after noon. In any case, you won't make much serotonin and melatonin until you're in the dark. And, when you're feeling sleepy, go to sleep!










As to warnings ... Possible conflicts-- such as Serotonin Syndrome-- with prescribed mood changing medications have become more a matter of "what kind" than "if". If you're on one of the many meds available, definitely consult with your doctor about going with Tryptophan (food or powder) or 5-HTP. 

It may be that you will need to safely trail off the prescribed drug (if you want to ever get decent sleep). Could work out very well, though. Tryptophan along with a simple low cost Lithium supplement (Lithium Orotate) may quickly have you way more healthy, well-balance, rested, upbeat, and depression free than ever.

(In case the decision is to stick with a prescribed med and avoid Tryptophan, correcting a highly likely Lithium deficiency should still be very good for your outlook on things.)

Good luck with sleeping well, Tad Cooper.










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