# Clickbait!! (your once in a lifetime chance to help type this ixxj!!!)



## chemistress (Oct 7, 2017)

Hello! I created this thread because I, like many others on this website, am unsure of my personality type. Some additional information about me: I took the test multiple times and got INTP and INTJ. I was kind of skeptical because only a fraction of people who take the test get those results. I know for sure that I am an introvert. Also, I am a teenager, and some sources say that my brain is not fully developed and I cannot be trusted to make logical decisions. This should be accounted for as you read. It would be much appreciated if anyone could quickly read over this questionnaire and offer some input. 
Thanks for looking at this! 


*0. Is there anything that may affect the way you answer the questions? For example, a stressful time, mental illness, medications, special life circumstances? Other useful information includes sex, age, and current state of mind. *
I am a female in my mid-teens and have been very stressed for the past month or so. Oh, and I took some Tums yesterday. Does that count?


*1. Click on this link: Flickr: Explore! Look at the random photo for about 30 seconds. Copy and paste it here, and write about your impression of it.
*I clicked the link and got a duck. The picture was "Multicolor" by Richard et Diane. It was beautiful. I liked the coloring of the duck. It was green and red and white on its head and neck, but only black, tan, and white on its body. It was like someone had cut two ducks in half and glued them together. I really didn't like the color of its eye. I think it was staring at me like it wanted to kidnap me at night. Overall, fantastic picture. I recommend looking it up! 


*2. You are with a group of people in a car, heading to a different town to see your favourite band/artist/musician. Suddenly, the car breaks down for an unknown reason in the middle of nowhere. What are your initial thoughts? What are your outward reactions?*
My thoughts would depend on a couple factors. If I was the one driving the car, I would be rechecking my actions before the trip to see if I had forgotten something (gas, oil, I don't actually know, I don't drive.) because it would be my car if I was driving it, probably. Or maybe not, in which case I would be asking the car's owner if they had forgotten anything. 
If we broke down in the middle of somewhere that has cell phone service, I would be planning to make a few calls. I would also worry that we would be late for our hotel check-in time or the concert either way.

My outward reaction would depend on the people I was with. If I was with acquaintances or random carpoolers (more uncomfortable) I would still ask the car's owner if they knew what had happened, but maybe in a less confident way. If I was with friends, I would do the same, but my manner would be a bit louder and more jovial. 

I would be very annoyed no matter who I was with, but that is a given.


*3. You somehow make it to the concert. The driver wants to go to the afterparty that was announced (and assure you they won't drink so they can drive back later). How do you feel about this party? What do you do?*
Oh, so I wasn't the driver. Oops. I guess I should have read ahead. 
I would be very skeptical of the driver's assurance to me and would volunteer to drive back myself just in case. I would not feel comfortable attending the party, especially since I would be tired after the concert. If I absolutely had to go, I would stay with my friends or find somewhere quiet to do something by myself.


*4. On the drive back, your friends are talking. A friend makes a claim that clashes with your current beliefs. What is your inward reaction? What do you outwardly say?*
And the people driving with me were friends. Ah. I would be very tired after the concert and the party, so I would either ignore her or get very angry and lash out. What I would say depends on what the claim is and how she delivered it. Was her tone spiteful? If so, I would probably get angrier. I would demand to hear an explanation of her belief and immediately try to find fault with it.( I have a bit of a short temper.) 
Did she state the claim without backing it up? Once again, I would demand an explanation and get very frustrated if she didn't provide one or it didn't make any sense. Although I wouldn't like for this to happen often, if she offered something that made sense, regardless of tone or intent, I would consider what she had said. I probably wouldn't apologize but would discuss it again in the future once I had calmed down. 


*5. What would you do if you actually saw/experienced something that clashes with your previous beliefs, experiences, and habits?*
I would be upset, but I would have to change my beliefs to fit what I had seen.


*6. What are some of your most important values? How did you come about determining them? How can they change?*
I value hard work, fairness, perseverance, and passion. I also value straightforwardness in relationships. I dislike passive-aggressive behavior above all else. 

I value hard work and perseverance because I am generally not someone who works hard. It is something that I wish I could change about myself and something I value in others. I don't think that I have to explain why I value fairness or passion. I find it unnecessary to skirt around a topic or sensitive subject if it will be brought up anyway in the future. My aversion to this probably has to do with my impatience. Passive-aggressive behavior is somewhat related to this. If one has a complaint about something or is dissatisfied with what others are doing, they should bring it up. Expecting others to figure out what one means is unhelpful and frankly, ridiculous. 

I don't really like the last part of this question. My values can change if I meet someone, witness something, or discover something more valuable that changes what I think. They can also change over time, etc etc... I don't understand what this means. 


*7. a) What about your personality most distinguishes you from everyone else? *
I don't know. I like to entertain the notion that I am different from everyone else, or "special", but I try to believe that we are all very similar at our most basic levels. I do not know how to answer this question besides what I have already typed. 
*b) If you could change one thing about your personality, what would it be? Why?*
I would like to be more confident. I have had trouble in the past with procrastination and talking to others, both of which I think has to do with my lack of confidence. 


*8. How do you treat hunches or gut feelings? In what situations are they most often triggered?*
My hunches are usually about other people's personality and future behavior when I meet them for the first time. Although I try not to take them into account, I usually subconsciously judge them based on what I think. However, I find that I am often right. It's actually very fun, analyzing others. Maybe I like it because I'm nosy. 


*9. a) What activities energize you most? b) What activities drain you most? Why?*
I am a very competitive person, so I like performing well in class or in any academic event. Scoring well on tests boosts my confidence and makes me feel happier. I also like having meaningful conversations with my friends. I enjoy getting to know other people if we have the same interests. (I was about to say "they are interesting to me", but I thought that sounded a little arrogant.) I get exhausted at large social events like parties or conventions, even if I am with friends. I don't know why I get so tired. I think the muscles in my cheeks start to hurt if I give too many fake smiles or something. 


*10. What do you repress about your outward behavior or internal thought process when around others? Why?*
I try not to repress too much when I am with friends because I am comfortable around them. When I am with people from school or teachers, I am terribly awkward. You could say I repress everything. I am very quiet and do not talk much. My friends say that I look like I want to leave the room when I talk to people I am not close with. I have been wondering for a while if I have some kind of social anxiety for this reason.


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## chemistress (Oct 7, 2017)

Anyone?


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## LlamadeusMozart (Nov 25, 2015)

I'm leaning INTJ, but it would help to know if you favor Ni or Ne. Ni sees broad interior connections, and Ne sees externally oriented possibilities - logician vs. inventor. Since INTJ favors Ni and INTP favors Ne, that distinction might help.

All my INTJ friends are lawyers - yes, all! All the INTP's in my life are massively good creative problem solvers in the external world. They can rig any contraption anywhere. Hope that helps!


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## The Producer (Mar 6, 2015)

You sound a bit too expressive with what you believe is right instead of what you think is the correct way, smells like INFJ to me.


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## chemistress (Oct 7, 2017)

@LlamadeusMozart I am not sure which one I prefer. I have trouble determining if I am a sensor or an intuitor in the first place. It's easier for me to learn in school when concepts are introduced with an overview(N), but I also think that details are as important to know(S). Why do you think that I might be an INTX and not ISTX?

Anyway, if I am an N, I looked up differences between Ni and Ne online and found this helpful chart that seems to condense the information. 









So Ne dominants prefer to deduce many possible solutions or outcomes to a problem or scenario from one piece of information, while Ni dominants prefer to absorb many different pieces of information to reach one conclusion. I am pretty sure, at least. 

If the chart is correct, then I think I might be a Ne. An interesting fact: I seem to prefer to use Ne(ostensibly) when I am writing, especially a free-written essay where I am supposed to be creative. I use Ni(ostensibly) at school and for general problem solving. 

What is the difference between your "right" and your "correct", @The Producer ?


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## The Producer (Mar 6, 2015)

chemistress said:


> What is the difference between your "right" and your "correct", @The Producer ?


Morally right, Fe, Correct Method, Te. From what I've read in that post, you smell of more Fe than Te.


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## Turi (May 9, 2017)

Istj or Infp


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## Agent X (May 23, 2017)

Greetings, let's analyze this shall we?



chemistress said:


> Hello! I created this thread because I, like many others on this website, am unsure of my personality type. Some additional information about me: I took the test multiple times and got INTP and INTJ. I was kind of skeptical because only a fraction of people who take the test get those results. I know for sure that I am an introvert. Also, I am a teenager, and some sources say that my brain is not fully developed and I cannot be trusted to make logical decisions. This should be accounted for as you read. It would be much appreciated if anyone could quickly read over this questionnaire and offer some input.
> Thanks for looking at this!
> 
> 
> ...


At this point in time I am typing you as an INTP although I do see certain hallmarks of INTJ in there as well. Would you be so kind as to take this following test, and posting the results? 


* *




Keys 2 Cognition - Cognitive Processes



@Turi, you really do like typing people as Si dom users don't you..


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## Turi (May 9, 2017)

@Agent X - lol ISTJ might have been a little impulsive, ISTJ or INFP are both likely, imo.



chemistress said:


> *1. Click on this link: Flickr: Explore! Look at the random photo for about 30 seconds. Copy and paste it here, and write about your impression of it.
> *I clicked the link and got a duck. The picture was "Multicolor" by Richard et Diane. It was beautiful. I liked the coloring of the duck. It was green and red and white on its head and neck, but only black, tan, and white on its body. It was like someone had cut two ducks in half and glued them together. I really didn't like the color of its eye. I think it was staring at me like it wanted to kidnap me at night. Overall, fantastic picture. I recommend looking it up!


Here we can determine a preference for Si and Fi.

The first and most glaringly obvious indicator of Si is the immense attention to detail - the OP details the colours, where the colours are exactly, as well as noting the name of the photo/painting (I didn't see it) and the photographer/painter.

The second indicator is the way the author writes - entirely in past tense. Author _clicked _the link. The picture _was _Multicolour. It _was _beautiful. Author _liked _the colouring of the duck.. _didn't _really like the colour of the ducks eyes.


Third indicator is typical Si-Ne interplay in the form of a metaphor - "_It was like someone had cut two ducks in half and glued them together._" - this stems from Ne exploring possibilities and ways to express the Si observations - notice it is easy to picture, it is external, it is not a subjective abstract interpretation (Ni) and it is not tinged with the more powerful and impactful language one might expect from an Se user (.. it was like someone smashed two ducks together.. ..it was like someone forced two ducks together.. etc) ..no, the language here is Si-Ne (or Ne-Si.. whatever) interplay - also note use of the word "was" in the metaphor as well.

We can also spot Fi within this same response - it is sprinkled with the authors own subjective perception of whether it is good or bad - didn't like the colour of the eye. _Fantastic _picture. Thought the duck was beautiful. This is Fi.
The entire questionnaire is rammed with how the author feels about things, enough for me to consider it as a dominant function, for sure.

Notice this too - "_I think it was staring at me like it wanted to kidnap me at night_." - this is again an Fi projection (coupled with an Si-Ne metaphor) - however use of the word "think" displays a lack of confidence - to me, I feel I can determine the author is more comfortable describing how a situation was, more comfortable diving into the details and nitty-gritty of an event, than they are at expressing how they feel about a possibility/hypothetical.. which suggests a preference for Si and inferior Ne to me.

However, my understanding of Ne is nowhere near comprehensive, and it could indeed be that that same phrase I quoted stems from a Ne indecisiveness - placing Ne above Si in this instance.

The OPs response to question 4 reeks of Fi-Te to me, or Te-Fi, can't tell which way around - response to question 8 is Fi flavoured, question 9 could easily be read as Te-Fi due to the focus on competitiveness and scoring well according to external measuring devices - although the reasoning for this happiness appears to be Fi again - author is aware she feels good when she succeeds, and is aware of the effects success has on her - boosts her confidence, makes her happier etc.

So I mean, could go either way.

I would suggest either ISTJ or INFP as possibilities - whichever way around it is, not positive, there's a case for both - if the OP truly feels she is predominantly a judging type of some sort, as per the title, I would suggest INFP as the most likely candidate.


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## chemistress (Oct 7, 2017)

Thanks for your detailed responses, @Agent X and @Turi !
I do have a few questions for both of you. I don't know how to quote specific lines of text with the forum format yet, so I'll use quotation marks instead. 



In question 7, when I said "I don't know. I like to entertain the notion that I am different from everyone else, or 'special'", Agent X claimed that that classified me as an intuitor. Why would this be an intuitive function? 

Also, when I said that "I have had trouble in the past with procrastination and talking to others, both of which I think has to do with my lack of confidence." You said that seemed to be a perceiving trait. Why? I thought both judgers and perceivers had a tendency to procrastinate. 

Finally, what does "having meaningful conversations with friends" have to do with intuition?

About your thinking of INTX: I mentioned in a different post (the fifth in the thread) that if I were an intuitor, I would have a preference for Ne and not Ni. I considered INTP due to this. 
I took the test you linked as well. 










I wasn't sure about some of the questions and found them hard to answer. I generally don't like personality tests because answers could change depending on a situation. Having only one bubble to choose from limits answers. Kind of like multiple choice tests. But those are good because I can guess in case I didn't study. 
Frankly speaking, I have doubts about being INTJ. I did consider them, too, but their most dominant function is Ni. I don't understand the concept of Ni in the first place. "Tapping into the unconscious..." and "mystical experiences"? If this function is "unconscious", then people with dominant Ni would be unaware of it unless they intensely analyzed themselves. 



Turi's "second indicator" of my preference for sensing- the way I type/write in question 4- seems to be only relevant to that question. Are you basing your theory on one part of my response or are there other reasons as to why you think I might be a sensor?

If "It was like someone had cut two ducks in half and glued them together." is Ne-Si to you, then how can it be Fi at the same time? How can my sentence be "sprinkled with my own subjective perception of whether it is good or bad" (Fi) but still "not a subjective abstract interpretation (Ni)"? I thought that the feeling function had to do with morals and ethical views and not necessarily perception of a random object. 

"-if the OP truly feels she is predominantly a judging type of some sort, as per the title, I would suggest INFP as the most likely candidate." Did you mean ISTJ?
To respond to what you have said, I have considered ISTJ in the past. I mentioned in my fifth post that I have trouble distinguishing between S and N. It's possible, I think, and maybe more likely than INTJ.


Thank you both again for your detailed answers! It appears that you aren't completely sure of my personality type based on your resposes, so would it help if I took another questionnaire?


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## Agent X (May 23, 2017)

chemistress said:


> Thanks for your detailed responses, @Agent X and @Turi !
> I do have a few questions for both of you. I don't know how to quote specific lines of text with the forum format yet, so I'll use quotation marks instead.
> 
> 
> ...


See the red text. Here are a trio of questions for you, followed by 2 more tests. Would you be as to be so kind as posting those results again?

Quick and easy test. Disclaimer: This one is rather unreliable, but I do use it to "break the ice" so to speak.

* *




John's Personality Test




INTP or INTJ test.

* *




INTJ or INTP Test - CelebrityTypes.com




Additional questions, how well do you relate with these on a scale of 1-10?

* *






Experience a premonition or foresee the distant future.

Achieve a metamorphosis, definitive insight, or powerful vision of change.

Gain a profound realization from a mystical state or sudden release of emotions.

Transform yourself by focusing inward on a specific way you foresee you will need to be.

Push your mind to envision a solution to a problem that hasn't come up yet.

Synthesize a new idea that transcends various opposing points of view.


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## LlamadeusMozart (Nov 25, 2015)

chemistress said:


> @LlamadeusMozart I am not sure which one I prefer. I have trouble determining if I am a sensor or an intuitor in the first place. It's easier for me to learn in school when concepts are introduced with an overview(N), but I also think that details are as important to know(S). Why do you think that I might be an INTX and not ISTX?


This paragraph:
4. On the drive back, your friends are talking. A friend makes a claim that clashes with your current beliefs. What is your inward reaction? What do you outwardly say?
And the people driving with me were friends. Ah. I would be very tired after the concert and the party, so I would either ignore her or get very angry and lash out. What I would say depends on what the claim is and how she delivered it. Was her tone spiteful? If so, I would probably get angrier. I would demand to hear an explanation of her belief and immediately try to find fault with it.( I have a bit of a short temper.) 
Did she state the claim without backing it up? Once again, I would demand an explanation and get very frustrated if she didn't provide one or it didn't make any sense. Although I wouldn't like for this to happen often, if she offered something that made sense, regardless of tone or intent, I would consider what she had said. I probably wouldn't apologize but would discuss it again in the future once I had calmed down. 

This is a VERY Ti/Fi mindset. INTJ's love to mix accuracy with strong principles, even at the expense of group harmony. 

And don't worry if nothing fits perfectly now. Preferences fall somewhere on a scale, and you're still young.


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## Agent X (May 23, 2017)

LlamadeusMozart said:


> This paragraph:
> 4. On the drive back, your friends are talking. A friend makes a claim that clashes with your current beliefs. What is your inward reaction? What do you outwardly say?
> And the people driving with me were friends. Ah. I would be very tired after the concert and the party, so I would either ignore her or get very angry and lash out. What I would say depends on what the claim is and how she delivered it. Was her tone spiteful? If so, I would probably get angrier. I would demand to hear an explanation of her belief and immediately try to find fault with it.( I have a bit of a short temper.)
> Did she state the claim without backing it up? Once again, I would demand an explanation and get very frustrated if she didn't provide one or it didn't make any sense. Although I wouldn't like for this to happen often, if she offered something that made sense, regardless of tone or intent, I would consider what she had said. I probably wouldn't apologize but would discuss it again in the future once I had calmed down.
> ...


You mean Ti/Fe right? And I do believe INTJ's also want accuracy, but not as much as INTP's as they lead with Ti (accuracy) and us with Ni (perspectives).


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## LlamadeusMozart (Nov 25, 2015)

Agent X said:


> You mean Ti/Fe right? And I do believe INTJ's also want accuracy, but not as much as INTP's as they lead with Ti (accuracy) and us with Ni (perspectives).


Oops, I actually meant Te/Fi. Sorry. My hunch is that the OP is an INTJ. But who knows?


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## Turi (May 9, 2017)

chemistress said:


> Thanks for your detailed responses, @Agent X and @Turi !
> I do have a few questions for both of you. I don't know how to quote specific lines of text with the forum format yet, so I'll use quotation marks instead.
> 
> 
> ...


It doesn't. It's a sign of introversion. What brand of introversion however, this provides no insight towards.



> Also, when I said that "I have had trouble in the past with procrastination and talking to others, both of which I think has to do with my lack of confidence." You said that seemed to be a perceiving trait. Why? I thought both judgers and perceivers had a tendency to procrastinate.


They do, you'll find the _biggest _procrastinators will be your dominant perceiving types - Si and Ni dominants for introverts, Ne and Se dominants for the extraverts.




> Finally, what does "having meaningful conversations with friends" have to do with intuition?


Absolutely nothing.



> About your thinking of INTX: I mentioned in a different post (the fifth in the thread) that if I were an intuitor, I would have a preference for Ne and not Ni. I considered INTP due to this.
> I took the test you linked as well.
> 
> 
> ...


Regardless of whether you're an N type or an S type, your OP displays a clear preference for Ne-Si over Ni-Se - whether Ne is more dominant than Si is up for grabs, but yes, preference for Ne over Ni in the very least, is evident.

With regards to any questions you didn't understand - you're supposed to click "not me" or whatever the least relevant one is - since you got super high Ni in those results, without understanding the Ni questions, it's clear to me you've selected highly on questions you haven't understood.
Take it again, with "not me" as the result for any and all you don't understand.. it skews the results otherwise.

Re: Ni and tapping into the unconscious - this is currently the topic of hot debate over in the Cognitive Functions section.
I questioned the whole idea, the mystique surrounding it needs to be stripped - you're bang on target re: questioning an unconscious function as a persons dominant function, however there are aspects of it that are clearly present in Ni doms, not so much in others, myself included, so it's difficult to discount as a possibility.. definitely needs to be dug into.

Intensely analysing yourself is precisely what Ni does. Ni is ridiculously self-absorbed. Ni is pre-occupied with itself - not so much the user themselves, it's not a function of massive ego - but Ni users immerse themselves in their own inner world of perceptions, symbolism and meanings. 
They get so far into this world, they are pretty much not "present" in the real world - it comes at the expense of Se, which is about using your 5 senses - Ni users deep-dive within themselves searching for answers and following their own mind, that they neglect the outside world.

All introverts can get lost in thought, obviously, that's where they get their energy from - but the particular brand of introversion that is Ni is different (not better or worse) than other introverted types - it entails what I put forth above - other brands of introversion will be focused on other things.

You should really dive into how all the introverted functions work.




> Turi's "second indicator" of my preference for sensing- the way I type/write in question 4- seems to be only relevant to that question. Are you basing your theory on one part of my response or are there other reasons as to why you think I might be a sensor?


That was about question 1. And no, I read the whole thing before posting. I noted your response to a few different questions.



> If "It was like someone had cut two ducks in half and glued them together." is Ne-Si to you, then how can it be Fi at the same time? How can my sentence be "sprinkled with my own subjective perception of whether it is good or bad" (Fi) but still "not a subjective abstract interpretation (Ni)"? I thought that the feeling function had to do with morals and ethical views and not necessarily perception of a random object.


The cognitive function stack of an ISTJ is (apparently) Si-Te-Fi-Ne. For the INFP - Fi-Ne-Si-Te.
So ISTJs use Fi on a regular basis, and INFPs use Si on a regular basis... they're both just.. not great with it. Not bad but it's a lackluster form of the function. 

The feeling function I was suggesting you use in some fashion - Fi - is.. to simplify it (drastically).. concerned with what you think is good and/or bad.
That's it.
Fi users live and die by this, and this concept of good or bad is applied to practically everything they come across - they think this person is good, this person is bad, this ducks eyes are good, this ducks eyes are bad.. one Fi user might think killing animals for the meat industry is good and another might think it's bad.. etc etc.

Every single person on Earth has their own set of morals, their own ethical code of conduct so to speak - yes, Fi is concerned with this, because this is essentially what they think is good or bad.

This absolutely applies to their own perceptions of objects - i.e you look at one basketball, don't want it, don't like it (bad), you see another one, you do like it, you buy it (good). Etc etc I'm sure you can understand how this concept can be applied to literally every situation in an Fi dominants life.

This is where people trip up when they suggest IxFPs are always friendly, happy etc, because they're a feeling type.. this isn't the case.. some INFPs are raised to believe that beating up their wife keeps them in line (good), for instance.. another Fi dominant might believe that eating bananas on a Tuesday is bad.. who knows.. but the point is, they prefer to live and die by this system they have inside themselves, that determines what is good and bad.




> "-if the OP truly feels she is predominantly a judging type of some sort, as per the title, I would suggest INFP as the most likely candidate." Did you mean ISTJ?
> To respond to what you have said, I have considered ISTJ in the past. I mentioned in my fifth post that I have trouble distinguishing between S and N. It's possible, I think, and maybe more likely than INTJ.


No, ISTJs lead with a perceiving function - introverted sensing (Si). Not a judging function. They're only a J type because they're first extraverted function is a judging type (Te).
Since they're introverts however, they lead with an introverted function, for them, this is Si.

INFPs lead with a judging function - Fi, they're only a P type because their first extraverted function is a perceiving type.. yeah it's all backwards.. but for introverts, the P and the J should be the other way around. And they are, in socionics.


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## chemistress (Oct 7, 2017)

Sorry. I didn't make myself clear enough here: 
"If "It was like someone had cut two ducks in half and glued them together." is Ne-Si to you, then how can it be Fi at the same time? How can my sentence be "sprinkled with my own subjective perception of whether it is good or bad" (Fi) but still "not a subjective abstract interpretation (Ni)"? I thought that the feeling function had to do with morals and ethical views and not necessarily perception of a random object."

When I mentioned that in my original response, I was also talking about your comment here:"We can also spot Fi within this same response - it is sprinkled with the authors own subjective perception of whether it is good or bad - didn't like the colour of the eye. Fantastic picture. Thought the duck was beautiful. This is Fi."


To explain what I was saying a little better, morals, which you say that Fi doms tend to value, have nothing to do with subjectively liking a duck or a basketball. In this case, "liking" or "disliking" is about personal aesthetic preference. When I said that I "didn't like the duck's eyes", I meant that I disliked the color, not sensed "evil" or "amorality" within the duck. The "kidnap me at night" comment was kind of a joke. As was the tums comment, by the way.

It seems that we think of morality differently.



Anyway, I retook that test and took the others.




























My not understanding the concept of Ni doesn't mean I will choose "not me" for every question I feel relates to that. My confusion extends to what I typed about unconsciously using the function. I generally have an "it depends" answer for questions like those.
@Agent X , you seem to depend on personality tests quite a bit.This could be unreliable. 

Experience a premonition or foresee the distant future. (Taken literally, this is impossible. -25/10. I'm guessing that this is actually saying something about predicting an outcome of a situation. If so, then maybe 5/10.)

Achieve a metamorphosis, definitive insight, or powerful vision of change. (I don't like how these are worded. The word "powerful" puts me off. 1/10.)

Gain a profound realization from a mystical state or sudden release of emotions. (I'm going to ignore that ridiculous "mystical state" and focus on the emotional part. This has happened to me before, usually after drinking coffee or when worrying. 3/10.)

Transform yourself by focusing inward on a specific way you foresee you will need to be. (Seriously, transform? Foresee? If this means adapting to a potential situation, then yes. 6/10.)

Push your mind to envision a solution to a problem that hasn't come up yet. (Actually, I do this. Usually when I am stressed. 7/10-ish.)

Synthesize a new idea that transcends various opposing points of view. (I don't know. 1/10?)


ISTJ is starting to sound like a fit.


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## Agent X (May 23, 2017)

It would appear I was wrong in typing you. Apologies to you and @Turi, but you are an ISTJ. It appears I need to do more proverbial homework. Please disregard my posts as they are inaccurate.


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## chemistress (Oct 7, 2017)

@Agent X , @Turi , @LlamadeusMozart - I found this excellent site that explains the cognitive functions in great detail. Please read through it when you have time. 

I can't post links because I don't have fifteen posts yet, but if you type The Principles of Cognitive Function Theory @MBTI-notes" into your search bar, it will be the first result. This website is honestly making me reconsider my type.

Agent X, your incorrect analysis might have to do with your extremely heavy reliance on personality tests.


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## Turi (May 9, 2017)

Yea, that is a brilliant site.

It makes sense an IxTJ would rely on tests, Te users love that shit - what's your own opinion on tests?

Test results provide Te users with the external measuring devices they love to utilise to make sense of things, see how everything stacks up.
External logic.


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## chemistress (Oct 7, 2017)

@Turi 

I think that tests can only be relied upon to a certain point. They were helpful to me when I was beginning to learn about MTBI because I was able to get a general idea of how people could be classified, but I don't need them anymore. I think it's rather rigid to base an entire viewpoint on a test made by someone else. Test questions are very easily misinterpreted and the taker can subconsciously choose a certain answer choice to skew their result.

You say "external measuring devices" are Te. I think I do use those, but I don't always have confidence in their validity.


(Hmm.. side note: This thread has a lot of views! It's obviously because of my brilliant title!)

I don't know if this tidbit of information is useful, but it's something that I recently noticed about myself. I am very quiet in the company of people I'm not used to. I wasn't aware that I was so quiet until one of my close friends told me that her first impression of me was "so quiet, it was kind of eerie". I knew that I could come off as introverted, but "being describled as eerily quiet" was very surprising. But this is only around people I don't know. I mentioned in my OP that I like to analyze others. After some careful consideration, I have decided that the reason for this is not only because it is fun, but also because I feel the need to "figure out" others before I "open up" to them. When I think that someone is "safe", for lack of a better word, I begin to talk to them more and don't feel so awkward. This probably has to do with an underlying confidence issue, and I wasn't sure how confidence linked to personality type, so this might not be useful at all. Potential Fi?


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## Turi (May 9, 2017)

chemistress said:


> @Turi
> 
> I think that tests can only be relied upon to a certain point. They were helpful to me when I was beginning to learn about MTBI because I was able to get a general idea of how people could be classified, but I don't need them anymore. I think it's rather rigid to base an entire viewpoint on a test made by someone else. Test questions are very easily misinterpreted and the taker can subconsciously choose a certain answer choice to skew their result.
> 
> You say "external measuring devices" are Te. I think I do use those, but I don't always have confidence in their validity.


Yeah, I get what you mean.

External measuring devices are what Te is all about.. so, test results, statistics, things they can use to measure things in the outside world.
Things like grades at school and meeting KPIs at work.. this is all very Te.

Why don't you always have confidence in their validity?
What is the hold up?
What more are you seeking, in conjunction with external measuring devices, for something to feel valid and confirmed in your mind?

What might put you off?
What might make something seem more reliable?


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## chemistress (Oct 7, 2017)

@Turi 

Those are... a lot of questions. I edited my last post to include some information about my possible Fi (?). Any thoughts?

"Why don't you always have confidence in their validity?"- Because they could be wrong. A good example is the personality test. That last sentence of mine was actually supposed to summarize everything I had written in that paragraph.

"What is the hold up? What might put you off?- You mean about a theory, right? These seem like the same question to me, but I don't know. I guess I would be put off if I asked for an explanation and it didn't make any sense or was fallacious (ex. confirmation bias). Or if it was too subjective.

"What might make something seem more reliable?" - To be honest, this is also pretty similar to the first question. Something would seem reliable if it made sense, wasn't fallacious, and wasn't too subjective. Actually, the subjectivity of the explanation depends on context. It would also seem reliable if it was from Harvard. 

What more are you seeking, in conjunction with external measuring devices, for something to feel valid and confirmed in your mind? Hmm... This is a good question. (A reminder that this assumes that we are talking about a theory etc) Probably what other people thought, about it too, to an extent. But humans all rely on general consensus to make decisions. If that "something" has some moral context, then I would probably consider my morals. For instance, if I had to choose between killing my parents or two very important members of so-and-so political party, I wouldn't know what to do. That was an extreme example, but applies to most things.


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## Turi (May 9, 2017)

chemistress said:


> @Turi
> 
> Those are... a lot of questions. I edited my last post to include some information about my possible Fi (?). Any thoughts?


Yeah, that's introversion, no indication of which particular brand of introversion, though.



> "Why don't you always have confidence in their validity?"- Because they could be wrong. A good example is the personality test. That last sentence of mine was actually supposed to summarize everything I had written in that paragraph.
> 
> "What is the hold up? What might put you off?- You mean about a theory, right? These seem like the same question to me, but I don't know. I guess I would be put off if I asked for an explanation and it didn't make any sense or was fallacious (ex. confirmation bias). Or if it was too subjective.
> 
> "What might make something seem more reliable?" - To be honest, this is also pretty similar to the first question. Something would seem reliable if it made sense, wasn't fallacious, and wasn't too subjective. Actually, the subjectivity of the explanation depends on context. It would also seem reliable if it was from Harvard.


All of these questions, and the one below, were all just getting at the same thing - I didn't intend them as literal questions to be answered - I was trying to convey the gist of what I was after.

When I said "what is the hold up? What might put you off?" it's still about the same thing - having confidence in the validity of external measuring devices.

Why do you believe something would seem more reliable if it was from Harvard?



> What more are you seeking, in conjunction with external measuring devices, for something to feel valid and confirmed in your mind? Hmm... This is a good question. (A reminder that this assumes that we are talking about a theory etc) Probably what other people thought, about it too, to an extent. But humans all rely on general consensus to make decisions. If that "something" has some moral context, then I would probably consider my morals. For instance, if I had to choose between killing my parents or two very important members of so-and-so political party, I wouldn't know what to do. That was an extreme example, but applies to most things.


It doesn't have to be about a theory, it would be about anything and everything.
We don't all rely on a general consensus to make decisions.


..do either of these fit:

FiNe (INFP) — Type in Mind

SiTe (ISTJ) — Type in Mind


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## chemistress (Oct 7, 2017)

"Why do you believe something would seem more reliable if it was from Harvard?"- SorryIt was a joke, but generally, studies done at colleges- no matter the school and especially if done by professors- are more likely to have logical data. 

I remember you saying that I could be ISTJ or INFP in the beginning. I see nothing has changed?

For INFP: Overall, no. I'm more of a Ti or Te. I think I relate to Fi in some ways, but I don't feel like I "mull over my beliefs" and I typically don't do things for their own sake. I also somewhat relate to Ne; I definitely like "discussions with others who are also open to exploring the possibilities of a topic". INFP's inferior function is Te, which, again, doesn't fit. 
So, why do you think that I could be an INFP?

For ISTJ: This is more likely than INFP. I suppose Si seems accurate enough. ISTJ's aux. function is Te, which is confusing to me because INFP's inferior function is Te. Additionally, ISTJ's inferior is Ne; these two types are complete opposites besides the I trait. It kind of seems like you are focusing on one trait of each type that I seem to match and basing your entire theory on that. For example, I don't understand how it is possible for me to have an inferior Ne in one type and an auxiliary Ne in another. 
I relate pretty strongly to Te. I mentioned relating pretty strongly to Ne, though, but Ne is the inferior function.

I am curious to know how you determined that I might be INFP or ISTJ. It seems like they are hardly related, especially concerning Ne.


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## fresh (Jul 3, 2011)

ISTJs and INFPs use the same functions, just in a different order. 

ISTJ: Si-Te-Fi-Ne
INFP: Fi-Ne-Si-Te

When it comes to typing people, sometimes it's easy to start with whatever function is jumping out at you (along with it's "partner" function, ex. Ne's is Si) working from there. Because the functions somewhat work as a whole, you have to dissect "the evidence" to find the role each function plays in one's cognitive patterns. When it comes to introverts, this can be tricky since their dominant function will be introverted, therefore not as obvious upon first impressions (sometimes it can...it really depends). I personally find it easiest to start with finding someone's extroverted functions and working from there. This is my subjective explanation for what @Turi seems to be doing (cause I kinda do the same thing).

I doubt you're a Fi-dom, but INFPs present as quirky, which I could see being a judgement formed from your title and username alone (p.s. love your username!). You seem like an IxTJ, there is a ton of Te in your posts. 

The fact that you're a teenager changes things though, in my eyes.

I'm curious what doesn't fit for you for INTJ? Is it just the rarity aspect? 

Also, you said that you like talking about your interests and having meaningful conversations. What are your interests and what constitutes a meaningful conversation for you?


To quote, you just press "Reply with Quote", it's the middle-ish button directly under a post. To reply to a part of the post, you type:

[quote*] insert text you're responding to here! [/quote*] BUT leave out the * (they're there so that I can demonstrate). Hopefully that makes sense, haha.


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## chemistress (Oct 7, 2017)

@fresh
Thanks for such a detailed response!



> ISTJs and INFPs use the same functions, just in a different order.
> 
> ISTJ: Si-Te-Fi-Ne
> INFP: Fi-Ne-Si-Te


I understand that ISTJ and INFP use the same functions, but both of their aux. functions are the inferior function of the other and vice-versa. This seems to me that they're... too "far away" from each other if that makes sense. 



> The fact that you're a teenager changes things though, in my eyes.


I think so too. I mentioned in my OP that teenagers are not fully mature and so should be analyzed with that in mind, but I personally don't know how being a teenager would influence personality type. 



> I'm curious what doesn't fit for you for INTJ? Is it just the rarity aspect?


Actually, after reading about Ni more in a cognitive functions website (can't link sites yet- MBTI-notes.tumblr), it seems pretty accurate. 
Here's a passage from the website on determining Ni:


> To determine whether Ni is your dominant function, ask yourself how you react to situations (most of these should apply if it is the dominant function; if only 1-2 points apply then it could be lower in the stack or some minor overlap with Ne): Do you observe situations from “the grand scheme of things”, often wondering about or visualizing far-flung potentialities? Do you think it’s important to reflect more deeply on situations for better understanding? Is it important for you to feel a sense of certainty about how a situation will turn out, and do you often feel certain about future outcomes, sometimes without knowing why or have difficulty explaining why? Do you find it hard to make decisions or maintain interest in something if you cannot see any meaning or significance behind the actions available? Do you often find yourself thinking that people or situations seem superficial, or often think that life requires more meaning or purpose? Do you dislike it when people seem narrow-minded or short-sighted in their outlook? Do you have strong ideas about what life or the world should be like in order for it to be better than it is at present (and do you feel listless when you have no such ideas)? Do you feel uneasy when your life lacks good direction or steady progress?


I relate to most of these, but I don't "have difficulty explaining why" I know how something will end and I don't really "have strong ideas about what life or the world should be like in order for it to be better than it is at present ". I'm not idealistic. And the "future outcomes" I have hunches about have more to do with other people's future behavior than anything else. While I do think that people or situations are superficial, it seems like a lot of people also think so. 
This makes a lot more sense than other descriptions of Ni I have read:

Experiencing a premonition?

Achieving a metamorphosis?

Transforming myself by focusing inward on a specific way I foresee I will need to be?
Sounds like magic. In fact, they could be uses of divination, transfiguration, and maybe metamorphmagy taken directly from Hogwarts. 

I'm not sure about INTJ because I don't understand its dominant function- and yes, kind of because of the rarity. Statistically, it's much more likely for me to be an ISTJ than an INTJ, especially as a female. 


> Also, you said that you like talking about your interests and having meaningful conversations. What are your interests and what constitutes a meaningful conversation for you?


 Ooh, what a fun question! I like competing, typically in some kind of academic contest because I am bad at sports and mediocre at art. I am interested in wit, analysis of anything, and sometimes morbid things. But only sometimes. I can be interested in anything if it's not shallow. A meaningful conversation to me is one that isn't fake or shallow- I really hate small talk, because I can never get to know a person just by that. I know that this behavior is a little extreme, but I often don't talk to anyone whom I think of as "fake"; I feel uncomfortable with them and they just aren't "serious"(?) enough. (This is kind of embarrassing to admit.) This makes me a... very quiet person in public. I try to be more outgoing and I hope that I can develop some social skills in the future.

And thanks for teaching me how to quote!


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## fresh (Jul 3, 2011)

chemistress said:


> @*fresh*
> Thanks for such a detailed response!
> 
> I understand that ISTJ and INFP use the same functions, but both of their aux. functions are the inferior function of the other and vice-versa. This seems to me that they're... too "far away" from each other if that makes sense.


No probs! Ah okay, have you read about the role the inferior function plays? It generally comes out when stressed. The way that it's often described is that your dominant function and inferior function are always at odds. One should focus on developing their dominant function, using the inferior in a somewhat sparingly, healthy, balanced manner. So, you say you're stressed...that matters because if you're an ISTJ, maybe you present as quirky due to you relying on Ne, coming up with too many possibilities for things. Or if you were an INFP, you'd present as valuing Te more than usual as a way to cope with with your stress, etc.

Everything follows a pattern with the functions, so once you get that, it makes sense that they're "far away"...the two extroverted functions are separated by an introverted function always. 



> I think so too. I mentioned in my OP that teenagers are not fully mature and so should be analyzed with that in mind, but I personally don't know how being a teenager would influence personality type.


In my opinion, teens are just a lot more quirky and fun (it's so sad that this tends to fade!). While they're likely self-aware, they might not be aware of their individual patterns because the issues they've had to face aren't necessarily as broad as the issues they'll be forced to face in early adulthood. There is information about yourself you have yet to discover, information that can really help in figuring out your type.




> Actually, after reading about Ni more in a cognitive functions website (can't link sites yet- MBTI-notes.tumblr), it seems pretty accurate.
> Here's a passage from the website on determining Ni:
> 
> I relate to most of these, but I don't "have difficulty explaining why" I know how something will end and I don't really "have strong ideas about what life or the world should be like in order for it to be better than it is at present ". I'm not idealistic. And the "future outcomes" I have hunches about have more to do with other people's future behavior than anything else. While I do think that people or situations are superficial, it seems like a lot of people also think so.
> ...


Oh good, you found that site, it has wonderful function descriptions! I also really love Personality Junkie for how they integrate the functions into type profiles, here are the profiles for ISTJ, INTJ, and INFP.

Yeah, the way most sites explain Ni seems to be emphasizing the mystical, perhaps because it's theorized it taps into the unconscious. I've been reading this stuff for years, and Ni can still be tricky to tackle down for me. In my experience, sometimes it's one of those functions that can be "hiding", I don't think it's as obvious as the other functions are to identify straight away, unless you're an Ni-dom yourself, but even then, that's not always reliable haha. 

The basics seem to be:

+ preoccupied with the future

+ tends to think in symbols, metaphors, images

+ tends to form a vision and maintain that vision (which I think of as a fancy plan or goal, one that is mentally conceptualized and perfected vs. put to action straightaway)

+ tends to synthesize ideas with the mindset of "the best possible way to do x", similar to Ti, but not as analytical, it's more gut-based

_This is in contrast to Ne where it's "the many possible ways to do x". Ni edits that process down (as you saw in the chart), once they form "the best way" then it can be more difficult to dissuade them from it (example, Hitler)
_
+ tends to easily identify "why things are the way they are" through noticing patterns, able to form predictions this way

+ tends to be fascinated by the "unexplainable" - sometimes that manifests in spiritual topics (as per the stereotype) but often it relates to aiding and analyzing humanity, philosophy, society, etc.

It might be helpful to look at the explanations of the inferior function through that site, I'd focus on Ne and Se. 

What aspects of Si do you relate to?



> I'm not sure about INTJ because I don't understand its dominant function- and yes, kind of because of the rarity. Statistically, it's much more likely for me to be an ISTJ than an INTJ, especially as a female.


Hmmm...interesting, so statistics are a big reason stopping you from thinking you're an INTJ? In what ways do you see yourself as different from others?

I'm curious what you mean about wishing to be more hardworking. Is it because you don't see yourself as hardworking enough or that you don't see yourself as hardworking at all? Do you feel as if you put your all into everything that you do, or does the effort level relate to your interest and purpose in doing that activity?



> Ooh, what a fun question! I like competing, typically in some kind of academic contest because I am bad at sports and mediocre at art. I am interested in wit, analysis of anything, and sometimes morbid things. But only sometimes. I can be interested in anything if it's not shallow. A meaningful conversation to me is one that isn't fake or shallow- I really hate small talk, because I can never get to know a person just by that. I know that this behavior is a little extreme, but I often don't talk to anyone whom I think of as "fake"; I feel uncomfortable with them and they just aren't "serious"(?) enough. (This is kind of embarrassing to admit.) This makes me a... very quiet person in public. I try to be more outgoing and I hope that I can develop some social skills in the future.
> 
> And thanks for teaching me how to quote!


What do you characterize as shallow conversation? If you had complete control over conversation topics, what would you want to talk about? In what ways are you interested in morbid subjects? Also, what famous figures do you tend to admire and why?


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## Turi (May 9, 2017)

chemistress said:


> @fresh
> Thanks for such a detailed response!
> 
> 
> ...


Kinda.. they're still two types who value the exact same top 4 functions. They can come across very similar to each other.
They share the same introversion and the same ways of extraversion.. whether you see an INFP or an ISTJ, what you see from the outside is Te and Ne, either way.

IIRC, Dario Nardi (dude who made the keys2cognition test, and wrote this book amongst others) said in a Reddit AMA, that types who share the same introversion/extraversion, but everything else flippped - i.e *I*STJ and *I*NFP can appear to be extremely similar to each other.

He said he couldn't tell a couple of *I*NFJ and *I*STPs apart, for instance.




> I think so too. I mentioned in my OP that teenagers are not fully mature and so should be analyzed with that in mind, but I personally don't know how being a teenager would influence personality type.


It has a massive impact on your personality type - as a teenager, you're likely only just beginning to develop your auxiliary function.
We don't start developing our tertiary function to any healthy degree until our 30s, and our inferior function until our 50s.





> Actually, after reading about Ni more in a cognitive functions website (can't link sites yet- MBTI-notes.tumblr), it seems pretty accurate.
> Here's a passage from the website on determining Ni: *snip*
> 
> I relate to most of these, but I don't "have difficulty explaining why" I know how something will end and I don't really "have strong ideas about what life or the world should be like in order for it to be better than it is at present ". I'm not idealistic. And the "future outcomes" I have hunches about have more to do with other people's future behavior than anything else. While I do think that people or situations are superficial, it seems like a lot of people also think so.


Yeah, see you're just about describing a process that opposes Ni.
Ni users have difficulty explaining "why" because the reasons "why" are buried in their subconscious - because the information they take in is through _inferior _Se, so they still take in information, they're just not so mentally present when doing so - what the Ni user works with, are symbolism, imagery, and conclusions. Ni gets the "answer" without any supporting evidence.

You could liken Ni to an anonymous text message before a movie starts, that tells you how the movie ends.
There's no context. Perhaps some names are dropped - who are these people? What's this? What's that mean? Etc etc you get the gist.
Ni gets the end result and has to work backwards to break it down and form an understanding of how they came to that conclusion, this is why we have difficulty explaining the reasoning behind our conclusions.

Not having strong ideas about life, and how the world should be like to be a better place in the future.. is decidedly a non Ni state of mind, imo. Completely imo.
As a kid, that's just about all that was on my mind, and I'd do what I could to make it happen, even the tiny things, they all add up.
My comparison here is entirely subjective. What sort of ideas and thoughts usually go on in your head?




> This makes a lot more sense than other descriptions of Ni I have read:
> 
> Experiencing a premonition?
> 
> ...


I can understand your skepticism, but these are things Ni doms experience.

Premonitions.. or foreseeing the unexpected.. are born out of that same process I detailed above, where Ni is receiving information from inferior Se - not great at recalling where the information is from. The "real world" might as well be the Ni dominants inferior function.
Piecing it together, and coming to the Ni dom as an image or vision - perhaps this is the brains way of trying to complete a picture with information it can't recall, I don't know.

This is why Ni doms often feel they just "know" things. Can't put their finger on why.
The information is there, if they really tried and spent a while trying to detail the reasoning, it would come, but in the moment - they have a preference for Ni over Se, so the actual details come later.

Achieving a metamorphosis, definitive insight, or powerful vision of change is pretty much the same thing, they're all part of the same process - this is no more than having an epiphany that alters your perspective on something, when boiled down.
You might just come to the realisation out of nowhere about the meat industry and decide to go vegan, for instance - without anything like sitting down and rolling through the pros and cons etc, without spending ages thinking about that issue in particular.
It just comes, pop, in your head "yeah, not keen on that.. think I'll go vegan".

Transforming yourself in a specific way by focusing inward on a way you foresee you'll need to be in the future is essentially a problem solving skill. It is realising what you need to be and preparing yourself in advance by focusing inwards - this is literally what is says.
If you need to pass a job interview, the Ni dom will focus inwardly and practically role-play it, they will find who they need to become for the interview, and they will transform themselves into this person as best they can.
They foresee how they need to be and will search inwardly to become this way.

Another example I'll use might be the Ni dominant on their way to a gig or something where they're in a band - on the drive to the venue, they'll be in their own head, playing it out, how it's going to be, literally envisioning the whole thing, vivid imagery of them playing guitar or whatever, this is the brain focusing on how it foresees the person needs to be in the future.
I'm sure you can understand how this function could be _incredibly dangerous_, given the fact that the person is driving in this example.. Ni comes at the expense of Se.


...the heart of Ni is to synthesise multiple points of view etc into one best-fit solution.
That's what all of the above is about, it stems from Ni synthesising information Se receives into one little image/vision/premonition/idea/thought.. whatever, however it comes - that the Ni user then makes sense of through their judging functions.

This process occurs when the mind is pretty much clear, not stressed, without much going on all at once (inferior Se after all) - younger Ni dominants like myself will have realised this as a freaking.. toddler.. that they need time alone, they need to get away from things to sort them out. They get the best insights and solutions when they're given time.

So you'll find the Ni dominants are the people who, when they are faced with something serious, might tend to wander off as kids, or zone out - if they wander off, you'll probably catch them doing something that is entirely irrelevant - i.e playing guitar or video games or some shit.. this is a natural tendency to take their mind off of the immediate reality (Se) and free up some space for Ni to do its thing.

If all this sounds like some magical bullshit out of Harry Potter, there's about no chance you're an Ni dom.
Considering your age, if you're an Ni dom, you would be _all about_ what I've detailed above.
It would be the dominant force in your life as far as how your brain works.


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## Apple Pine (Nov 27, 2014)

@chemistress

First, they are all wrong. 

Second, needless to say that all of those tests are pretty much worthless. 

An introvert. Seems like an observant, contained, shy person, prefers thinking about stuff rather than doing anything; fascinated by those who not only come up with plans but actually execute them. 
A feeling type. It's not that she cares much about people or has thousands of values or whatever, what determines this is that she uses a lot of emotions packed words to explain or describe things. If she tries to switch to rationalism, it's mostly either an intuitive random analogy / an observation OR something along the lines people should do something specific in certain situations backed by some internal logic. Typical intuitive Je. 

*INFJ
* @Turi

The problem with textbook Ni descriptions is that you only see them in *yourself* when you learn about them. You think, or expect to see same stuff in others but you don't. 

This is how you fail to see what Ni really looks like, and how to spot it. I completely understand Ni stuff you wrote, and I can highly relate, but can you really spot such thinking in simple sentences others construct? You cannot. Unless they say something which almost resembles one of the examples you have read. 

This is one of function that absolutely cannot or shouldn't be determined by specific parts of the given answers/explanations. I see many taking one or two sentences and concluding Ni (which is why so many INFJs mistypes happen). Or they don't see any, so they conclude IT CANNOT BE Ni. They are not magicians.

As we know intuitives are known for throwing many related/not related stuff in the process of the explanation. Ofc, sensors do that too, but intuitives barely include any sensing packed words to aid their task.

Ni versus Ne (if it seems quite obvious we are dealing with an intuitive type). It's usually pretty obvious when we are dealing with Ne dom. Randomness cannot be mistaken. It's almost ridicilous to tell someone is Ne second, so it's best to see whether it's Ti or Fi dom. Ti is usually clear, Fi is a pain. lol. Hard to type INFPs. Ni dom is only noticeable in long explanations/answers. The way they construct paragraphs. They have this rather perfectionist, organized flow. Dynamic. Ni second is another pain, usually easier to spot Se than Ni.


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## chemistress (Oct 7, 2017)

I saw more responses as I was writing, so I will submit this first.

@fresh


> Ah okay, have you read about the role the inferior function plays? It generally comes out when stressed. The way that it's often described is that your dominant function and inferior function are always at odds.


Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear enough. How can there be a possibility of auxiliary Te (I assume this means I use it quite often?) and somehow also inferior Te (unused and undeveloped, especially since I am a teenager.) in my personality, as well as aux. and inferior Ne.



> Yeah, the way most sites explain Ni seems to be emphasizing the mystical, perhaps because it's theorized it taps into the unconscious. I've been reading this stuff for years, and Ni can still be tricky to tackle down for me. In my experience, sometimes it's one of those functions that can be "hiding", I don't think it's as obvious as the other functions are to identify straight away, unless you're a Ni-dom yourself, but even then, that's not always reliable haha.


Honestly, the description of Ni I find in most sites seems to be applicable to every human. And since Ni "taps into the unconscious", one could say that every human uses what is purportedly Ni every day and as much as anything else without being aware of it. 
Do sensors really not think of possible outcomes as much as intuition? This sounds wrong. Hmm, unless intuitors tend to be more preoccupied with it because they don't see it as a waste of time like sensors do?



> What aspects of Si do you relate to?


I took a passage about Si from the same website as before:


> To determine whether Si is your dominant function, ask yourself how you react to situations (most of these should apply if it is the dominant function; if only 1-2 points apply then it could be lower in the stack or some minor overlap with Se): Do you tend to pause or hesitate and try to figure out if you’ve experienced something like this before, scanning for some familiar object, detail, or feeling to hang your hat on? Do you tend to notice little changes in terms of how details compare to your past experiences? Do you prefer to use already known or well-established methods/procedures to handle problems? Do you easily feel flustered/overwhelmed/anxious when confronted with a completely new situation you’ve never experienced before? Do you feel uneasy when people/situations do not behave in line with your existing knowledge of them or if you are forced to improvise without enough guidance/rules to follow? Do you dislike it when people seem unrealistic, impractical, or hold pie-in-the-sky beliefs?


I think I relate to this, too. However, I never "tend to pause or hesitate and try to figure out if I have experienced something like this before, scanning for some familiar object, detail, or feeling" and I don't really "tend to notice little changes in terms of how details compare to my past experiences", but this might have to do with my terrible memory. I definitely "feel uneasy when people/situations do not behave in line with your existing knowledge of them", but that tends to only apply to people. I mentioned earlier that I judge others before I start to talk to them; if my judgment of someone is wrong (which, although this may sound arrogant, doesn't happen often), and I had been talking to them before, I would withdraw completely and reassess them.



> Hmmm...interesting, so statistics are a big reason stopping you from thinking you're an INTJ? In what ways do you see yourself as different from others?
> I'm curious what you mean about wishing to be more hardworking. Is it because you don't see yourself as hardworking enough or that you don't see yourself as hardworking at all? Do you feel as if you put your all into everything that you do, or does the effort level relate to your interest and purpose in doing that activity?


Well, my genetic code is different from any other organism's that has ever been alive in this galaxy.  But jokes aside, I am much quieter. I can't put anything more than that because I don't know how others are. 
I don't see myself as hardworking at all. I tend to procrastinate a lot, and sometimes, if I am in a particular mood, I won't do any work. If something is boring to me, I won't work as hard as I would if it were interesting. 


> What do you characterize as a shallow conversation? If you had complete control over conversation topics, what would you want to talk about? In what ways are you interested in morbid subjects? Also, what famous figures do you tend to admire and why?


It's kind of hard to explain. I don't like talking about "how my day " went or about some new movie that came out. I think that this might actually be because I know that the person doesn't know what else to say. It's empty, regardless of their intentions. I would want to talk about my goals, philosophical theory, and my interests (books, morbid stuff, memes(?), and sometimes emotions.
I don't understand what you mean by "in what ways" I am interested in morbid subjects. It's disgusting, repellent, and for some reason, cool. I like reading books on psychopathic behavior and mortuary science and reading about murder victims online.
I tend to admire famous figures with wit, like Ben Franklin and Winston Churchill, because they're funny, and any famous writer or professor who chose their profession because they liked it and not because of money or fame because I want to do that too.


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## Apple Pine (Nov 27, 2014)

lol yeah, ISTJ and INFP do share the same functions, but knowing that both types mostly display the first two, kind of third, and the last one usually colliding with other inferior functions possibilities, they are rather very different. They do match very well though, when they get to know each other very well. 

However, you're gonna find INFP and INFJ or INFJ and INTJ more alike than the counterparts (any type with a type with the opposite letters; these share the same functions).

If you want to see what Si is, watch Lena Del Ray music videos (with sound). See how it feels. Compare it to, idk, Miley Cyrus. Remember it's about sensing.






lol


* *




Atmosphere. Missing details. Abstract. Such Si. This is not really applicable though. Kind of gives an overall picture of what that is though.


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## Turi (May 9, 2017)

Apple Pine said:


> @chemistress
> 
> First, they are all wrong.
> 
> ...


How did I know you someone would appear and type OP as an INFJ with literally nothing to support it, haha.

I disagree with you, I believe you can spot Ni in what people say, and it's not evident here.


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## chemistress (Oct 7, 2017)

@Turi


> Ni users have difficulty explaining "why" because the reasons "why" are buried in their subconscious - because the information they take in is through inferior Se, so they still take in information, they're just not so mentally present when doing so - what the Ni user works with, are symbolism, imagery, and conclusions. Ni gets the "answer" without any supporting evidence.


It seems that Ni users do use evidence, since they take in information. Are you saying that Ni users are unaware of the process by which they come to conclusions or get ideas? 
I was looking through the Ni and subconsious thread today, and it seems that you have questions about this yourself. Why do you sound so sure about this?


> Not having strong ideas about life, and how the world should be like to be a better place in the future.. is decidedly a non Ni state of mind, imo. Completely imo.
> As a kid, that's just about all that was on my mind, and I'd do what I could to make it happen, even the tiny things, they all add up.
> My comparison here is entirely subjective. What sort of ideas and thoughts usually go on in your head?


I usually think about myself, to be honest. I am very worried about how I seem to others, and I overanalyze my behavior and other people's towards myself to discern anything about them. A lot of the time, I like to visualize myself in a specific kind of situation and imagine things I would say, what I would be, and how others would talk to me. Sometimes, this will get to the point where I am gesturing and mouthing words to no one like a madwoman; I sometimes laugh. I try not to do this in public. But this usually happens when I am feeling anxious.
I also worry a lot. 


> So you'll find the Ni dominants are the people who, when they are faced with something serious, might tend to wander off as kids, or zone out - if they wander off, you'll probably catch them doing something that is entirely irrelevant - i.e playing guitar or video games or some shit.. this is a natural tendency to take their mind off of the immediate reality (Se) and free up some space for Ni to do its thing.


That's interesting. I don't think I do this- I find it almost impossible to completely "take my mind off things". Even if I try, I usually have this nagging feeling in the back of my mind. I get even more stressed when I don't mull it over.

Based on your posts in this thread, it seems like your perception of intuition is largely dependent on your personal experience with it.
@Apple Pine
I have a few questions for you. 
How can you say this:


> A feeling type. It's not that she cares much about people or has thousands of values or whatever, what determines this is that she uses a lot of emotions packed words to explain or describe things.


and yet also this:


> I completely understand Ni stuff you wrote, and I can highly relate, but can you really spot such thinking in simple sentences others construct? You cannot. Unless they say something which almost resembles one of the examples you have read.
> This is one of function that absolutely cannot or shouldn't be determined by specific parts of the given answers/explanations. I see many taking one or two sentences and concluding Ni (which is why so many INFJs mistypes happen). Or they don't see any, so they conclude IT CANNOT BE Ni. They are not magicians.


It seems that you have also tried to type me based on "specific parts of the given answers". I doubt that the essence of a feeling type has to do with "emotionally packed words"- more of decisions based on personal values.
Why do you think I am an intuitor?


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## Apple Pine (Nov 27, 2014)

Turi said:


> How did I know you someone would appear and type OP as an INFJ with literally nothing to support it, haha.
> 
> I disagree with you, I believe you can spot Ni in what people say, and it's not evident here.


There is nothing to seriously support INFJ or any other type here. We are speculating based on short answers we have been given. 

Anyway, just few ideas to show that one by one sentence analysis is a terrible error. You said: 

*The entire questionnaire is rammed with how the author feels about things, enough for me to consider it as a dominant function, for sure.*

In reality, this is what you see in every questionnaire. Only Fe doms, such as this guy over here (Fe dom) http://personalitycafe.com/whats-my...890-attempting-inspect-my-mbti-enneagram.html is focusing on how others feel. 

*Notice this too - "I think it was staring at me like it wanted to kidnap me at night." - this is again an Fi projection (coupled with an Si-Ne metaphor) - however use of the word "think" displays a lack of confidence - to me, I feel I can determine the author is more comfortable describing how a situation was, more comfortable diving into the details and nitty-gritty of an event, than they are at expressing how they feel about a possibility/hypothetical.. which suggests a preference for Si and inferior Ne to me.*

I genuinely wonder why's that so definitely Fi over Fe preference. If we look at the theory, wouldn't it make sense to say that the author perceived the threat - bad vibes around the duck, which was followed by logic and intution -> it might murder me tonight? Is it Si because the assumption of how the author feels about the duck led to the atmospheric image of what could happen, created by Ne? Do you see how both Ni-Se and Ne-Si perfectly equally explain why the author thinks this way? 

*Third indicator is typical Si-Ne interplay in the form of a metaphor - "It was like someone had cut two ducks in half and glued them together." - this stems from Ne exploring possibilities and ways to express the Si observations - notice it is easy to picture, it is external, it is not a subjective abstract interpretation (Ni) and it is not tinged with the more powerful and impactful language one might expect from an Se user (.. it was like someone smashed two ducks together.. ..it was like someone forced two ducks together.. etc) ..no, the language here is Si-Ne (or Ne-Si.. whatever) interplay - also note use of the word "was" in the metaphor as well. *

Oh, I see a duck. What if it was cut into two halves (Se), and then glued together? Weird, but I like it. Could be more powerful than ever (Ni). I think this might be useful metaphor to explain one of my abstract thoughts. Perhaps there could have been a thought of it being powerful which would _prove_ Ni, but maybe it was skipped and it was not needed? Also, I used quite a few was here, which by the way is completely not a hint of Si. 

*The first and most glaringly obvious indicator of Si is the immense attention to detail - the OP details the colours, where the colours are exactly, as well as noting the name of the photo/painting (I didn't see it) and the photographer/painter.*

I think you will agree that you said it's Si, not sensing in general, because you wanted to show your typing is accurate.

That is fine. You are right by what you said, but knowing what exactly you meant, you are not. Here's what I just took from another questionnaire (not by OP):

_What tends to weigh on your decisions? (Do you think about people, pro-cons, how you feel about it, etc.)
Pros and cons, I suppose. I use overactive brainstorming and mental process-of-elimination to come up with the best decision for a situation. Or, I'll have the most attractive decision in my brain and I'll run through it mentally multiple times before I ultimately make that decision, to make sure I've assessed possible negative consequences and determined that other options aren't as good. Most of the time I intuitively know what I'll choose before I analyze, but of course I have to check myself. Sometimes I ask others for advice or input, often consulting the internet.

No one else does, probably, and I often lose things so maybe I don't actually know where my things are, but to me there is a semblance in my mind of where my things are. Like a mental map. It's the same for my thoughts. My thoughts would be overwhelmingly and wildly scattered to others, but to me there is a sense of organization and a general method that my train of thought tends to follow._

This is quite not a bad indicator of Ni dom, isn't it?
@chemistress

Look here what I meant by error of analyzing specific parts of the given answers. Sure I did focus on specific parts too, but the relationship between the parts should be found first, instead of trying to quickly relate the sentence to the theory. 

Of course it's about decisions based on personal values and so. However, in reality, those people tend to use way more emotional words to convey the message or describe the process of how they arrive to the conclusion.  

I am failing to see any significant amount of sensing here. As for INFP or INFJ, as far as I remember (lol) it's kind of a guess. Maybe it wasn't. I actually forgot why I concluded INFJ. lol. Just checked my previous post. I was right. And so was @Turi. I actually didn't provide any evidence for INFJ > INFP, cuz, frankly there is none. Almost. Except for few ideas and assumptions. Either that, or I seriously forgot what I had in mind.


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## chemistress (Oct 7, 2017)




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## Turi (May 9, 2017)

Apple Pine said:


> There is nothing to seriously support INFJ or any other type here. We are speculating based on short answers we have been given.


Yes there is, ISTJ and INFP. 



> Anyway, just few ideas to show that one by one sentence analysis is a terrible error. You said:
> 
> *The entire questionnaire is rammed with how the author feels about things, enough for me to consider it as a dominant function, for sure.*
> 
> ...


Not really. Only in hypothetical land where we start putting words in other peoples mouths and making drastic assumptions.



> *Third indicator is typical Si-Ne interplay in the form of a metaphor - "It was like someone had cut two ducks in half and glued them together." - this stems from Ne exploring possibilities and ways to express the Si observations - notice it is easy to picture, it is external, it is not a subjective abstract interpretation (Ni) and it is not tinged with the more powerful and impactful language one might expect from an Se user (.. it was like someone smashed two ducks together.. ..it was like someone forced two ducks together.. etc) ..no, the language here is Si-Ne (or Ne-Si.. whatever) interplay - also note use of the word "was" in the metaphor as well. *
> 
> Oh, I see a duck. What if it was cut into two halves (Se), and then glued together? Weird, but I like it. Could be more powerful than ever (Ni). I think this might be useful metaphor to explain one of my abstract thoughts. Perhaps there could have been a thought of it being powerful which would _prove_ Ni, but maybe it was skipped and it was not needed? Also, I used quite a few was here, which by the way is completely not a hint of Si.


Why is a duck being cut into two halves Se?
Yes, past tense language is an indicator of Si.
The whole idea of the picture question is to gauge perceptive functions, the whole idea of a questionnaire in the first place is for people to type up what's on their mind.

If there were any kind of Ni thoughts hiding in the shadows, it would have been typed up.



> *The first and most glaringly obvious indicator of Si is the immense attention to detail - the OP details the colours, where the colours are exactly, as well as noting the name of the photo/painting (I didn't see it) and the photographer/painter.*
> 
> I think you will agree that you said it's Si, not sensing in general, because you wanted to show your typing is accurate.
> 
> That is fine. You are right by what you said, but knowing what exactly you meant, you are not. Here's what I just took from another questionnaire (not by OP):


Absolutely not. It is Si, as per the reasons I described. The language is not colourful. It is descriptive and to the point, it is detail oriented, author even noted the name of the picture/painting and the photographer/painter.
It could be a particularly detail oriented Se user, but, more likely it's simply Si perceptions.




> _What tends to weigh on your decisions? (Do you think about people, pro-cons, how you feel about it, etc.)
> Pros and cons, I suppose. I use overactive brainstorming and mental process-of-elimination to come up with the best decision for a situation. Or, I'll have the most attractive decision in my brain and I'll run through it mentally multiple times before I ultimately make that decision, to make sure I've assessed possible negative consequences and determined that other options aren't as good. Most of the time I intuitively know what I'll choose before I analyze, but of course I have to check myself. Sometimes I ask others for advice or input, often consulting the internet.
> 
> No one else does, probably, and I often lose things so maybe I don't actually know where my things are, but to me there is a semblance in my mind of where my things are. Like a mental map. It's the same for my thoughts. My thoughts would be overwhelmingly and wildly scattered to others, but to me there is a sense of organization and a general method that my train of thought tends to follow._
> ...


Relevance, your honour?


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## Apple Pine (Nov 27, 2014)

Turi said:


> Yes there is, ISTJ and INFP.


Cmon, do you really believe there is even a 10% chance it's ISTJ case? 



> Not really. Only in hypothetical land where we start putting words in other peoples mouths and making drastic assumptions.


 Are you accusing me of putting words in your mouth? 



> Why is a duck being cut into two halves Se?


See, now we'll endlessly dismiss each other's points, as it's easy. A sensory possibility. Just like a drink on my table could be upside down rn. It's a bit ridiculous, you know it, but just as your Si argument. Funny. Fluffy. 

Btw, seriousness aside, glued chicken sounds amazing. 



> Yes, past tense language is an indicator of Si.


Is that because Si tend to be nostalgic? This is true, but it doesn't interfere in most answers, and thus doesn't make any difference. Oh, don't forget about the possibility OP is not a native speaker (not saying they are or not). 



> The whole idea of the picture question is to gauge perceptive functions, the whole idea of a questionnaire in the first place is for people to type up what's on their mind.


That's right! However, the comment OP made on the picture does not actually say much, contrary to your opinion. 



> If there were any kind of Ni thoughts hiding in the shadows, it would have been typed up.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_distribution



> Absolutely not. It is Si, as per the reasons I described. The language is not colourful. It is descriptive and to the point, it is detail oriented, author even noted the name of the picture/painting and the photographer/painter.
> It could be a particularly detail oriented Se user, but, more likely it's simply Si perceptions.


.

Exactly, it is descriptive and to the point, detail oriented. That is sensing. If there was Si, we would have seen thoughtful out of bounds perception of something OP saw. Nothing to conclude it's Se either. 



> Relevance, your honour?


I think I was proving my point, replying to your comment, which I forgot. I prefer "my lord" btw ;p



chemistress said:


>


It appears that my life has been a lie. lol


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## fresh (Jul 3, 2011)

chemistress said:


> I saw more responses as I was writing, so I will submit this first.
> 
> @*fresh*
> 
> Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear enough. How can there be a possibility of auxiliary Te (I assume this means I use it quite often?) and somehow also inferior Te (unused and undeveloped, especially since I am a teenager.) in my personality, as well as aux. and inferior Ne.


Because the role Te plays in your life could be unclear. If you're an IxTJ, then you likely have a healthy use of Te, you rely on it often, and it probably plays a huge role in your decision making process, i.e., it's a big part of who you are. But if you're an INFP (we'll just use that as an example), then you would bypass Ne (skipping it) to use Te when stressed, something that is unnatural and draining. So a stressed INFP can look like an xSTJ. A stressed xNTJ can look like an xSFP. Hopefully this clears some of the confusion up.



> Honestly, the description of Ni I find in most sites seems to be applicable to every human. And since Ni "taps into the unconscious", one could say that every human uses what is purportedly Ni every day and as much as anything else without being aware of it.
> Do sensors really not think of possible outcomes as much as intuition? This sounds wrong. *Hmm, unless intuitors tend to be more preoccupied with it because they don't see it as a waste of time like sensors do?*


Bingo to the bold. Broadly speaking, sensors are to the point. It doesn't mean that they don't play with ideas and possibilities, it's just that generally, they don't rely on that process to the same degree an intuitive would. The reverse applies to intuitives, we can notice sensory aspects of our environment (for example), but we're not as in tune with it as a sensor would be.

It's interesting you see Ni as universal, lol, because Ni-doms are the rarest types. The way I see it is that most people instinctively see their process as something similar to Ni, they want to attribute their deductions as "just knowing". For introverts, that is the type of relationship one seems to have with their dominant function, regardless of what it is. We are so familiar with it to the point that we "just know". So really, it depends on what we "just know" about. The _type_ of thinking, _what_ you're thinking about, and _how_ you're thinking about it matters. I say this because we can all reach the same conclusion about something...the why of how we got there is what the function is seeking to explain.



> I took a passage about Si from the same website as before:
> 
> I think I relate to this, too. However, I never "tend to pause or hesitate and try to figure out if I have experienced something like this before, scanning for some familiar object, detail, or feeling" and I don't really "tend to notice little changes in terms of how details compare to my past experiences", but this might have to do with my terrible memory. I definitely "feel uneasy when people/situations do not behave in line with your existing knowledge of them", but that tends to only apply to people. I mentioned earlier that I judge others before I start to talk to them; if my judgment of someone is wrong (which, although this may sound arrogant, doesn't happen often), and I had been talking to them before, I would withdraw completely and reassess them.
> 
> ...


So you can make judgements of others and can predict how they might act, but you don't know how others are? How does this work? :tongue:



> It's kind of hard to explain. I don't like talking about "how my day " went or about some new movie that came out. I think that this might actually be because I know that the person doesn't know what else to say. It's empty, regardless of their intentions. I would want to talk about my goals, philosophical theory, and my interests (books, morbid stuff, memes(?), and sometimes emotions.
> I don't understand what you mean by "in what ways" I am interested in morbid subjects. It's disgusting, repellent, and for some reason, cool. I like reading books on psychopathic behavior and mortuary science and reading about murder victims online.
> I tend to admire famous figures with wit, like Ben Franklin and Winston Churchill, because they're funny, and any famous writer or professor who chose their profession because they liked it and not because of money or fame because I want to do that too.


By "in what ways" I mean, how does your interest in morbid stuff manifest? You might be interested in the afterlife, ghosts, spirits. You might be interested in decomposition, what happens to our bodies after death, cemeteries, funeral homes. You might be interested in unsolved murder cases, serial killers, and their details, etc. See, I used my Ne here to come up with the possibilities  Morbid is a broad term. I'm getting the feeling that what is obvious to you is something you want to attribute to being obvious to everyone, haha. The Te is strong in this one.


*shrugs* You sound like an INTJ to me. I personally don't see much evidence of Si, even in your first post. I can see why you sometimes type as INTP, I'm guessing you have pretty developed Ti. Nevertheless, I'd say your Te/Fi is undeniable. Ni/Se vs. Si/Ne is still debatable, but on the whole, I get more INTJ vibes than ISTJ vibes from you. 


Uh @Apple Pine, you do realize that both Lana del Rey and Miley Cyrus are xSFPs?

If you want Si, look to T. Swift for that :bored:


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## chemistress (Oct 7, 2017)

> So you can make judgements of others and can predict how they might act, but you don't know how others are? How does this work?


I don't think you can know how "most people" think at all. I can guess at how one specific person might behave based on their behavior (and I'm unsure if others can do this), but I don't know how I compare to others in general.



> By "in what ways" I mean, how does your interest in morbid stuff manifest? You might be interested in the afterlife, ghosts, spirits. You might be interested in decomposition, what happens to our bodies after death, cemeteries, funeral homes. You might be interested in unsolved murder cases, serial killers, and their details, etc.


The last two. 



> Ni/Se vs. Si/Ne is still debatable, but on the whole, I get more INTJ vibes than ISTJ vibes from you.


I don't really understand N vs S at all. Do you have any evidence why i would be an INTJ? 

Thanks for such good answers!


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## Apple Pine (Nov 27, 2014)

@Lana del Rey 
@fresh I do. I specifically said "watch her videos". That is Si, and the provided reasoning in the spoiler.


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