# Each MBTI type and psychopathy



## Mammon (Jul 12, 2012)

I'm curious how all the differnet types would be under psychopathy? Especially the F's


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## Staffan (Nov 15, 2011)

I doubt there are many psychopathic feelers. Feeling is about values and is probably related to the fight/flight response. Psychopaths have a characteristic lack of this. I think most psychopaths are ESTPs - bold, individualistic thrill seekers.


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## Mick Beth (Oct 19, 2010)

Psychopaths have their own personality type. Many of their characteristics do not complement each other in an empathic person. For instance, psychopaths tend to be introverted; however, they seek simulation which is an extrovert trait.


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## gammagon (Aug 8, 2012)

DubLeWoble said:


> I'm curious how all the differnet types would be under psychopathy? Especially the F's


Probably IxTx... But I'm not sure.
I wonder what type is most likely to be a yandere :crazy:


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## Nessie (Jan 6, 2012)

Staffan said:


> I doubt there are many psychopathic feelers. Feeling is about values and is probably related to the fight/flight response. Psychopaths have a characteristic lack of this.* I think most psychopaths are* *ESTPs* - bold, individualistic thrill seekers.


Er, thanks, flattered:wink:

But seriously now: psychopathy have long list of traits, which have to be "completed" to meet clinical or at least subclinical criteria. Between others being remorseless, lack of empathy (inborn psychopaths) etc.
Some isolated "psychopathic" feature is having half of population, but not "complete menu".

BTW: I dont agree that values are that related to flight/fight response. People with strong flight/fight response are better at pretending having values ( stronger anxiety, seeking of social approval etc.). But their values arent necessarily internalized. If so, their actions are directed from outside, in which case it doesnt have strong connection to real moral/values. Some psychopaths are able of same: they dont feel internally what is right or wrong, but they remember, so they are able to "make it" indirectly and meet society criteria (especially in case here is chance they wouldnt get away with their actions...).

Also: Noradrenaline is related to level of flight/fight response. Low flight/fight response are having ppl who are understimulated (low dopamine, noradrenaline, strong extroverts etc.). But for example ADDers (usually low dopamine, with ADD_PI often low noradrenaline: in this case often prescribed Atomexin with low affinity with other neurotransmiters) tend to be more altruistic than majority population (not much psychopathic trait, isnt it?). In the other hand high noradrenaline state, for example manic phase or shizophrenia, must be ruled out before giving person antisocial label.

As for Feeling function: Feeler preference does mean, when deciding, that priority isnt impersonal objective facts , but more how your actions influence you personally and/or people around. I know some feelers, who tend to evaluate how their actions benefit them personally but as for other peoples interests....better move on and dont get angry :frustrating:.

P.S.: Dont try on me your party trick with throwing something in face of people to see how easily they are startlet. Im strong extrovert, e.g. you would get scared for no reason (any kind of Antisocial disorder not present, despite ESTP, Im even not Egocentric:tongue.


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## Cosmicsense (Dec 7, 2011)

Lulz, first: define psychopathy? By who's definition, in which decade. . .

I tend to categorize it under primary and secondary. Secondary I equate to sociopathy. 

Any type can end up a sociopath. It's acquired, yet requires a genetic load towards psychopathy. 

Primary psychopaths will test out with high E , N, and T. 

Hitler was actually just a secondary psychopath.. a sociopath. He was also a feeler 

Most of the people pulling the strings behind our socio-political curtain are ENTX.. they're "subclinical" rulers who can objectively steer the institutions, and those institutionalized as they see fit.


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## Staffan (Nov 15, 2011)

> But seriously now: psychopathy have long list of traits, which have to be "completed" to meet clinical or at least subclinical criteria. Between others being remorseless, lack of empathy (inborn psychopaths) etc.
> Some isolated "psychopathic" feature is having half of population, but not "complete menu".


This depends on whether you view it as a distinct category or a dimensional trait. I think the latter makes the most sense when you consider how normal personality traits are genetically linked to personality disorders in a pretty predictable way. 



> BTW: I dont agree that values are that related to flight/fight response. People with strong flight/fight response are better at pretending having values ( stronger anxiety, seeking of social approval etc.). But their values arent necessarily internalized. If so, their actions are directed from outside, in which case it doesnt have strong connection to real moral/values. Some psychopaths are able of same: they dont feel internally what is right or wrong, but they remember, so they are able to "make it" indirectly and meet society criteria (especially in case here is chance they wouldnt get away with their actions...).


I think the fight/flight is the basis of values. If someone puts out his cigarette in a child's face or has sex with animals most people have a gut reaction to this and then conclude that it is wrong, not the other way around. Some less obvious matters are a matter of conformism, but most often it is internalized so it becomes a true value. And in this case it's about the fear of being ostracized so it still goes back to the fight/flight response. But sometimes it's a show similar to that of the psychopath.



> Also: Noradrenaline is related to level of flight/fight response. Low flight/fight response are having ppl who are understimulated (low dopamine, noradrenaline, strong extroverts etc.). But for example ADDers (usually low dopamine, with ADD_PI often low noradrenaline: in this case often prescribed Atomexin with low affinity with other neurotransmiters) tend to be more altruistic than majority population (not much psychopathic trait, isnt it?). In the other hand high noradrenaline state, for example manic phase or shizophrenia, must be ruled out before giving person antisocial label.


I have not heard about ADHD being linked to empathy, but there seems to be an overlap between this condition and psychopathy - both groups being extraverted, thrill-seeking, and impulsive. There are studies showing that ADHD traits in childhood predict psychopathic traits in adulthood. But ADHD is much more common so plenty of these will have empathy. Perhaps one difference could be serotonin levels? Schizophrenia seems to be a high noradrenaline state and yes it can be confused with psychopathy, and they can also lack empathy so it's complicated.




> P.S.: Dont try on me your party trick with throwing something in face of people to see how easily they are startlet. Im strong extrovert, e.g. you would get scared for no reason (any kind of Antisocial disorder not present, despite ESTP, Im even not Egocentric:tongue.


It's a correlation, so it may not work on you, but I would certainly be on my guard against anyone showing a weak startle reflex : O I'm not saying ESTPs all have some psychopathy, only some of the more extreme individuals of this type.


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## Cosmicsense (Dec 7, 2011)

Staffan said:


> I think the fight/flight is the basis of values. If someone puts out his cigarette in a child's face or has sex with animals most people have a gut reaction to this and then conclude that it is wrong, not the other way around. Some less obvious matters are a matter of conformism, but most often it is internalized so it becomes a true value. And in this case it's about the fear of being ostracized so it still goes back to the fight/flight response. But sometimes it's a show similar to that of the psychopath.


I don't agree with this. This startle would have to do with how someone processed a novel event in the moment. So what? They could introspect later and realize it was wrong, then use this reasoning to form a principal which could be applied to future, similar situations. Hence, the startle reflex is simply not necessary. 

The basis of morality needs intact empathy circuits, and intellectual reasoning in order to build sympathy. Through these three components: empathy, sympathy, and reasoning, values will be formed. The higher the composite score of the three, the deeper, and more layered the reasoning will become.


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## Nessie (Jan 6, 2012)

Staffan said:


> > I think the fight/flight is the basis of values. If someone puts out his cigarette in a child's face or has sex with animals most people have a gut reaction to this and then conclude that it is wrong, not the other way around.
> 
> 
> I agree with the gut response, but I wouldnt equate it to flight/fight response. I see gut response like instinctual one, not some exclusivity of feelers. Did you know, that 80% of newborn kids, 18 months old, together with 80% of monkeys (chimps) in same age, would help to other consider fruit, tasty juice etc. despite they dont have any profit from the action and nobody learned them that? Under normal, not stressfull condition, fight/flight response isnt present.
> ...


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## Staffan (Nov 15, 2011)

> I don't agree with this. This startle would have to do with how someone processed a novel event in the moment. So what? They could introspect later and realize it was wrong, then use this reasoning to form a principal which could be applied to future, similar situations. Hence, the startle reflex is simply not necessary.


Yes, but I view that as a post hoc theory, something that is made up to explain the gut reaction. You rarely have a bad gut reaction, think about, and conclude that it was after all a good thing.



> The basis of morality needs intact empathy circuits, and intellectual reasoning in order to build sympathy. Through these three components: empathy, sympathy, and reasoning, values will be formed. The higher the composite score of the three, the deeper, and more layered the reasoning will become.


That to me is like intellectualizing something that is basic wiring. People enjoy doing this for some reason. For instance, attitudes on capital punishment and abortion are highly inheritable, but no one says, "I'm against abortion because it's in my genes". They want some elaborate explanation that they can feel is theirs.


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## Staffan (Nov 15, 2011)

Nessie said:


> Staffan said:
> 
> 
> > I agree with the gut response, but I wouldnt equate it to flight/fight response. I see gut response like instinctual one, not some exclusivity of feelers. Did you know, that 80% of newborn kids, 18 months old, together with 80% of monkeys (chimps) in same age, would help to other consider fruit, tasty juice etc. despite they dont have any profit from the action and nobody learned them that? Under normal, not stressfull condition, fight/flight response isnt present.
> ...


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## Mammon (Jul 12, 2012)

gammagon said:


> I wonder what type is most likely to be a yandere :crazy:



Haha me too xD
My avatar happens to be a yandere. I love yanderes lol =P

I think yanderes most likely have Fi as dom or aux.


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## Cosmicsense (Dec 7, 2011)

Staffan said:


> Yes, but I view that as a post hoc theory, something that is made up to explain the gut reaction. You rarely have a bad gut reaction, think about, and conclude that it was after all a good thing.


I don't get "gut reactions". That is something that simplistic people seem to get. 





> That to me is like intellectualizing something that is basic wiring. People enjoy doing this for some reason. For instance, attitudes on capital punishment and abortion are highly inheritable, but no one says, "I'm against abortion because it's in my genes". They want some elaborate explanation that they can feel is theirs.


It may be basic wiring to you, but then, you probably have basic reasoning to your moral code. I don't.


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## Staffan (Nov 15, 2011)

Cosmicsense said:


> I don't get "gut reactions". That is something that simplistic people seem to get.
> 
> It may be basic wiring to you, but then, you probably have basic reasoning to your moral code. I don't.


True, I usually go with my gut.


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## Cosmicsense (Dec 7, 2011)

Staffan said:


> True, I usually go with my gut.


This is truly something you can feel in the abdominal area, just underneath?! I don't recall ever feeling something in that area outside of physical illness, such as the flu. 

If so, does it start there, and then flood your brain with a feeling? Then you just have a, "this is wrong" kind of judgment without conscious reasoning?! I'm curious. People describe this "gut feeling" similar in many instances, but a bit off in others. 

I have to reason everything through in depth. I may get a feeling in my heart, but never in my gut. My heart will ache really bad sometimes. Sometimes it will flood me with waves of emotions that feel incredible. Hard to explain but I enter "the zone" in a really weird way. I may start to feel space and everything becomes much more fluid...and less static...urghh difficult to explain


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## Staffan (Nov 15, 2011)

Cosmicsense said:


> This is truly something you can feel in the abdominal area, just underneath?! I don't recall ever feeling something in that area outside of physical illness, such as the flu.
> 
> If so, does it start there, and then flood your brain with a feeling? Then you just have a, "this is wrong" kind of judgment without conscious reasoning?! I'm curious. People describe this "gut feeling" similar in many instances, but a bit off in others.
> 
> I have to reason everything through in depth. I may get a feeling in my heart, but never in my gut. My heart will ache really bad sometimes. Sometimes it will flood me with waves of emotions that feel incredible. Hard to explain but I enter "the zone" in a really weird way. I may start to feel space and everything becomes much more fluid...and less static...urghh difficult to explain


There is a lot of individual variation in emotional reactions but I feel it in the solar plexus the most, and then all over. If it's really bad my heart will start beating harder and it becomes difficult to breathe. There is a lot of variation to it depending on whether I get angry or sad, if it's a surprise or something I feared would happen etc. But there isn't much conscious reasoning going on.


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## Mammon (Jul 12, 2012)

Cosmicsense said:


> This is truly something you can feel in the abdominal area, just underneath?! I don't recall ever feeling something in that area outside of physical illness, such as the flu.
> 
> If so, does it start there, and then flood your brain with a feeling? Then you just have a, "this is wrong" kind of judgment without conscious reasoning?! I'm curious. People describe this "gut feeling" similar in many instances, but a bit off in others.
> 
> I have to reason everything through in depth. I may get a feeling in my heart, but never in my gut. My heart will ache really bad sometimes. Sometimes it will flood me with waves of emotions that feel incredible. Hard to explain but I enter "the zone" in a really weird way. I may start to feel space and everything becomes much more fluid...and less static...urghh difficult to explain


When I'm relying to make a decision on a gut feeling, it goes something like this: If it feels right it's like this sense of colorful ease comes over me and if it feels wrong this sense of 'red alert' comes over me telling me 'Beware where/what/how, etc. This is not right, please reconsider'
I sometimes ignored my gut feeling and 80% of the time I paid the price.

It does indeed like @Staffan said start at the solar plexus.


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## Mick Beth (Oct 19, 2010)

Staffan said:


> I doubt there are many psychopathic feelers. Feeling is about values and is probably related to the fight/flight response. Psychopaths have a characteristic lack of this. I think most psychopaths are ESTPs - bold, individualistic thrill seekers.


Interesting...schizophrenics have too much of the chemical dictating the flight-or-fight response (leaning towards flight). I remember my psychiatrist telling me, although schizophrenics can be sociopathic, the rest of them tend to be more empathic than the general population. Regarding ESTPs as psychopaths, psychopaths are, contrary to popular belief, not charismatic. They tend to have low affect; however, low affect can also be found in people with lower EQs regardless of whether they have empathy/feelings or not. Although they are usually not charismatic, psychopaths are better manipulators (they can be charismatic if they need to be).



Cosmicsense said:


> It's acquired, yet requires a genetic load towards psychopathy.


True, genes play a role whereas personality is adaptive. In other words, it is quite possible for someone to be raised a “feeler” all the while having sociopathic impulses.


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## Nessie (Jan 6, 2012)

Cosmicsense said:


> This is truly something you can feel in the abdominal area, just underneath?! I don't recall ever feeling something in that area outside of physical illness, such as the flu.
> 
> If so, does it start there, and then flood your brain with a feeling? Then you just have a, "this is wrong" kind of judgment without conscious reasoning?! I'm curious. People describe this "gut feeling" similar in many instances, but a bit off in others.
> 
> I have to reason everything through in depth. I may get a feeling in my heart, but never in my gut. My heart will ache really bad sometimes. Sometimes it will flood me with waves of emotions that feel incredible. Hard to explain but I enter "the zone" in a really weird way. I may start to feel space and everything becomes much more fluid...and less static...urghh difficult to explain


I wouldnt locate gut feeling anywhere in the body, I dont feel it this way.
I have it, but its more like instinct: I didnt harm ppl or animal when I was small and logial reasoning was still undeveloped, because I wouldnt like to be harmed myself, so it didnt feel well regarding gut. Or I predicted my grandmother mamas death, logical reasoning also not present, because before I didnt experienced dead of other human being. Or I feel gut feeling responsible for not getting lost in unknown places without map.

As for "the zone"......I heard something very similar, about less static etc., it was description of "aura" from one girl with head ache (migraine). But might you are describing just feeling. I dont know.


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## Choptop (Nov 20, 2010)

Hm. If we're going by Cleckley' version of psychopathy, I'd have to say E(?)xTx. One of the most characteristic traits of a psychopath is, of course, a lack of aFFect.
Now, sociopaths are different in my mind. In Criminology, they're interchangable. I disagree. I view sociopaths as psychopaths that lack superficial glib and charm (i.e., I).

Conclusion: Because they lack affect, I believe that they cannot be Fs.


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