# Bigger conflict: J type vs. P type, or J type vs. J type?



## teddy564339 (Jun 23, 2010)

For me, I see obvious conflicts and misunderstandings occurring between E vs. I types, S vs. N types, and T vs. F types, even if they have two or three other preferences in common. 

I certainly see it occurring in J vs. P types as well, and I've read all about these in books about type. P's feeling stifled by J's, J's viewing P's as unorganized, etc. 


But after thinking about it some more, I think I've noticed that I clash with J types just as much as, and actually probably more than P types. I guess it all depends on the situation and person of course...there are some situations where P types drive me up the wall.

But I really see J types clashing with other J types just because both sides seem like they're more likely to be stubborn and less likely to budge on whatever it is they're feeling at the time. Of course, if these two things align, that's great...but if they don't, it feels like both types will be less flexible.


Of course this is a hard question to answer, since it will greatly depend upon the exact type of the person, other attributes of the person, and the situation at hand. But if we're just speaking as generally as possible:

J types can either answer personally or talk about J's in general, I guess P's have to talk about J's in general.

However, you'll notice I haven't mentioned P's clashing with P's. This certainly can happen, but I'm assuming out of the three pairings, it happens the least. However, if any P type wants to chime in giving a different perspective, I would find that interesting as well.


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## Mr.Xl Vii (Jan 19, 2011)

I'm not going to lie. I find most J types to be a pain in the ass. Most notably INTJ types. It's nothing against them, but they feel the need to impose their structure on others and aren't very flexible. It's like they're entire world falls apart the moment order is lost. Which I could see to be crippling since life in itself is chaos. I very rarely clash with other P types. So I know it's not us lol.


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## SarahWilliams (May 5, 2010)

I think it depends entirely on *how* you deal with conflict. There are people who handle conflict well, and there are people who cannot tolerate any kind of conflict. I don't think anyone really enjoys conflict, but there are ways to fight in a healthy manner and likewise, ways to fight in an unhealthy manner. 

Becoming overly defensive, overly aggressive, name-calling, or becoming very passive aggressive are ways you can turn a normal conflict into one that is way worse than it was to begin with. 

In Myers Briggs world... J's seem to be more likely to force an issue, or to force a conclusion on something. This in turn, leads to conflict. How they handle this conflict really depends person to person. J's might be more accustomed to conflict, and thus more accustomed to fighting fairly. However, I have seen some very very intense J types that kind of just beat the other person into submission, which isn't good either. 

P's seem more relaxed, more random. They seem less likely to force an issue, or force a conclusion. This in turn, leads them to just floating along. Eventually they encounter problems, as life as full of conflicts. How they handle these conflicts, really depends person to person. P's might be less accustomed to conflict, and thus not really accustomed to fighting fairly. However, I have seen some amazingly talented P types who draw their opponent out, wear them down, to expertly diffuse a situation. 

Based on this... I think it depends person to person. It depends on how they handle conflict. Based solely on stereotypes - I could see certain J types aggressively attacking each other, a J type streamrolling a P type, and two P types passive-aggressively battling for months before one snaps and yells at the other. 

So yes, two J types fighting in an unhealthy way is probably the bigger conflict in the classic knock-down drag-out fight sense.


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## Berdudget (Mar 24, 2011)

If we're assuming here 'Two ppl get into an argument,' I'm definitely of the opinion there is going to be more heel-digging in a J-J conflict. However, as a J married to an ENTP who likes to argue for the hell of it and sometimes for real too, and with an ESTJ 8 mother-in-law to boot, my personal experience fighting with these two leads me to the personal conclusion that I'd rather do the real arguing and fighting with the J. The J at least seems to desire resolution of some sort. The fight might be very heated and disgustingly unpleasant for me, but our J natures satisfy each other with closure, no matter how temporary. Whereas my experiences with arguing with Ps leaves me with no such satisfaction. It's very hard for me to interpret open-ended statements and refusals to answer. The Js seem to be willing to keep responding. The Ps will just leave when they're irritated enough. But what I find happens often is Js think Ps are arguing when they're really not. So the J gets angry and the P gets confused. I do think, generally speaking, Js are more likely to START arguments in the first place.


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## vel (May 17, 2010)

From a relationship study I've seen on MBTI types two J-types together reported having more conflict than J and P or P and P. Unfortunately they had no data to compare J-P vs P-P.


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## JXS (Mar 4, 2011)

I see this as something individual. MBTI type doesn't affect whether someone is an **** *****-***'* ******. I've seen Js and Ps get into long arguments--albeit for differing reasons--but they usually involve a number of factors, including Si/Ni, T/F, and just plain stupidity.


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## amon91 (Feb 1, 2011)

I get along with NP's, I love how spontaneous and funny they are. As JXS said, MBTI isn't related to whether you're a **** *****-***'* ****** or not.


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## lirulin (Apr 16, 2010)

I argue more consistently with Js, but there is the option of solving the issue with them. Like, actually solving it. I would rather argue with a J. Certain individuals excepted, of course, some can turn everything in a personal attack, but with the more stable ones there is still the possibility of dealing with it constructively, finding closure. As in, not merely forgive and move on, but figure out what went wrong and why and how to avoid it in future - with deference to the rampant misunderstandings that doubtless are there.

Ps...ENTPs never seem to stop arguing of course, so it depends on the P. But it is true for me that I can hardly ever discuss real problems with them, nothing personal, so nothing ever gets solved to my satisfaction. Just avoidance, mindgames and the expectation of mind-reading capabilities, denial, never telling me something is wrong so I keep doing it...when serious personal stuff finally does come up, it is usually in the form of an explosion. So either huge explosion or a bunch of niggling things that are never dealt with. Js want the same sort of resolution to the conflict as me, even though our interpretations and goals may be opposed, so it is less stressful.


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## chaeriean (Jan 18, 2011)

i get along most with j-types. i'm the kind of person that takes people for their word, and most p-types i know aren't like that. they say they'll do something and then they don't do it, which completely throws me off guard because i remember what they have said and it confuses me. i find j-types to be reliable and i like structure and order so i prefer being in their environment. usually if i have a disagreement i just say whatever, unless it's about something important - but that hasn't yet happened to me. i can see though where j vs j would be difficult because both are strong willed and both are capable at times of having unreasonable requests. like @lirulin said as well, j types are more concerned with the end outcome, i find, and emphasize solutions. 

i also however agree with this:



> I'm not going to lie. I find most J types to be a pain in the ass. Most notably INTJ types. It's nothing against them, but they feel the need to impose their structure on others and aren't very flexible. It's like they're entire world falls apart the moment order is lost. Which I could see to be crippling since life in itself is chaos. I very rarely clash with other P types. So I know it's not us lol.


in that it can be extremely chaotic and a j with poorly developed coping techniques to deal with that chaos will no doubt inspire conflict in everyone around them, including other js.


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## Kr3m1in (Jan 16, 2011)

Arguing with SPs is the most frustrating for me. They literally don't listen to anyone but themselves, get personally offended and fail to be objective.
NPs are much better, not only do I rarely argue with NPs, but they are easier to see eye to eye with, because they value perspective and don't take things as personally.
Other Js, it's intense...very intense, but for fun. Nobody gets personally offended or hurt, so the argument goes on for quite a bit. There is no agreeing to disagree with Js.
So, I am not sure, it's all different kinds of conflict but for me, _SPs_ are the worst.


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## ponyjoyride (May 7, 2010)

I don't enjoy being around J-types too much. I like most of them but there's a point when they start to be too annoying. I think most of them get better with age since they learn not to shit bricks everytime a plan is changed. I always thought that Js and Ps would be "natural enemies" but I think that relationships between Ps and Js are more peaceful than those between Js and Js. However especially TJs seem to enjoy arguing so for them conflicts aren't a bad thing.


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## StandingTiger (Dec 25, 2010)

As a P, I just don't bother arguing with J types at all. They don't see things the same way I do, and it we'll both end up getting nowhere. I usually just go along with what they demand unless something's extremely important to me and goes against my values. Hell, it's one less decision I have to make on my own.

I watch Js fight each other constantly though. It's hilarious to a P. It really is. I'm about as P as one can get, and I think that just about everyone could use a "chill pill" most of the time.

However, I'll have friendly debates with fellow Ps (of the NT variety) all day long.


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## Beatrice (May 1, 2011)

P's annoy me so much because they are usually very unorganized. Organization is a BIG thing for me. And organization is a J thing. Especially with my ESFP sister, I always found myself yelling at her to pick something up or shut a door she left open.


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## Arclight (Feb 10, 2010)

The key, as always , is based on respect or lack thereof.


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## Kelly617 (May 25, 2011)

I think P's probably annoy J's more than J's annoy P's. My mom is a strong J and I'm a strong P. Most of the time, the things I do that upset her don't even occur to me as upsetting in the slightest. Even after living with her for 20+ years, I haven't figured out how to stop pushing her buttons. Still, when she mentions something, I'm quick to attend to it to make sure she doesn't start nagging. It's the nagging that really drives me crazy. 

On the other hand, J's can be as organized as they want, as long as they don't expect the same from me. XD

J VS J is fun to watch. It's probably just because J's *notice* so much more. As a P, I could be surrounded by mess and uncertainty, but it's alright, I don't mind. I don't even feel the need to fix it. XD


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## daybreak drizzle (Jun 11, 2011)

teddy564339 said:


> But after thinking about it some more, I think I’ve noticed that I clash with J types just as much as, and actually probably more than P types. I guess it all depends on the situation and person of course…there are some situations where P types drive me up the wall.


With a P and a J it’s more likely they will talk past each other entirely because they work differently. Like _Who’s On First_. Each interprets the other in a way that misses what the other meant and they go around in frustrated circles.

When two Js clash it’s more likely they get each other’s approaches fine, but they’re disagreeing on the argument. It’s a fight about the positions rather than a failure of communication.



teddy564339 said:


> But I really see J types clashing with other J types just because both sides seem like they’re more likely to be stubborn and less likely to budge on whatever it is they’re feeling at the time.


Oh Ps are plenty stubborn. Js want closure, Ps want the best opportunity. Js are flexible internally: have to be, to achieve closure externally. Ps introvert their judging, they are more organised and picky on the inside: naturally they chafe against external structure.


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## LibertyPrime (Dec 17, 2010)

JvsP is simple and it has nothing to do with how orderly someone is.

First of all a J type will have a theory about something and their tendency is to look for data that matches that theory. That is why Js seem so sure of themselves and often disregard other people's ideas. This makes a J's judgment fast but the possibility of inaccuracy 9of them being wrong) is high.

A P on the other hand will work for data to developing a theory. This is why you see so many Ps questioning their type and checking different possibilities, going deep into the theory and questioning things, looking closely at what the data points towards. This makes p types look indecisive and all over the place, they also come to conclusions much slower or they don't come to a conclusion at all. However when they do decide it is often highly accurate.

Simple as that. The difference between a J and a P.


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## Spades (Aug 31, 2011)

Hmm.. in my experience I think I have more conflicts with J types, but I could be biased because both my parents are J's. The conflict comes with clashing decisions, whereas the problem I have with P's comes from getting them to do things (but this might mostly be NP's).

Overall, I get along more with E's, N's, T's, and P's, so I guess that explains why I'm drawn to ENTP's (and act as one around people sometimes).


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## LotusBlossom (Apr 2, 2011)

I'd imagine it's JvJ for me, because I don't have problems with Js (unless they direct too much of that J onto me). It's always the other way round. :laughing:


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## Hardstyler (Sep 4, 2010)

Lol all the J v J debates I've seen NEVER FUCKING END. One J always has to prove to another J that his views are right where P's go Eh whatever. 

Edit:Today in Poli Sci class we were talking about the diffent ways people talk about politics and heres what I came up with:

2 P's will Talk about something and just keep throwing hypotheticals at eachother to make even more. If they can't agree on something they find middle ground and compromise.
*"Coffee Shop Talk"*

1 P will throw hypotheticals at a J and a J will try to make a conclusion*"Problem Solving"*. If the P doesn't agree with the J the talk will turn into a *"Questioning"*coversation

2 J's will Talk about something and if there ideas don't match they have to prove to eachother*"The Debate"*.Where as if they agree on something there discussion will turn into a *"Coffee Shop Talk"*

1 J will throw there data or conclusion at a P a P will keep asking questions on how they got that conclusion and find flaws.*"Questioning"* If the J and the P can't agree the conversation turns into a *"Problem Solving"* type conversation


This is just a hypothesis for a Poli-Sci anyone got any input?


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## Bassist (Sep 23, 2011)

I just wish to understand how P's live their lives in such a state of disarray....


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## elixare (Aug 26, 2010)

J vs J

Why? Let me illustrate....

Here's a J vs P conflict:

J: &#*[email protected]&#^!$*&#!*!(#@%&!
P: ok ok chill dude geez.....

Here's a J vs J conflict:

J: @#[email protected]#[email protected]$
J: @#[email protected]@#[email protected]#[email protected]
J: @#$&D(@*#($&@#[email protected]@@
J: &*[email protected]#^$!&(#($(!#*$&(!*&$(!#$
J: &@#^$(@*#($&(@#&$(@*#$&(@#*$&@(
J: *(#&$(@*#$&*(#@&$*(@&#$(&@#$*(@#&$(@*9
J: &(#$*!&#&$(!*#&$(*!#&*($&!*($&*(!#&$*(!&#*($&!*(#&$*(!
J: #&*($(@#&*(!&$*(!&$(*!&(#$&*(#&$*(!&$(!#&$(#&$(!#&($&(!&*($&
.
.
.
.
etc


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## ReliveTheMagic (Jun 17, 2011)

(I'm a P)
I can't stand when a J type comes to a conclusion about me. I need a lot of room to fluctuate and change perspective I guess. That can be troubling to some people. And I think especially if I love someone, their "J" function can really stifle me, because I do care how they are effected. So it works kinda like that?


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## yuffy (Aug 15, 2011)

Like what hmwith said, Js never see things the same way I do. I used to have a friend who was INxJ and we argued most of the time and we never ever agree with each other. 
Things just didn't go well.

It's a lot easier getting along with other Ps though.


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## dagnytaggart (Jun 6, 2010)

J vs J.

P's annoy me when they don't keep their word or take things seriously. But it turns out OK, since I plan on them not following through when they specifically promised to.

But another J with an opposing agenda = RAMFIGHT.

If a J is trying to force me away from my solidified plans in order to fit theirs, there WILL be problems.

Of course, when I charge forth with MY plans because I don't want to waste any more time fighting with them (and I let them know clearly of this intention), they take it as "irresponsibility". When in reality, I didn't plan to follow you at all, jackass.


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## Femmefatale (Feb 22, 2012)

Please don't get pissy about what I'm writing, this is colored by personal experiences and the black/white opinion they make me produce. I don't have anything against anyone based on their type.

Well... Ps do clash, but usually there's a top and a bottom dynamic with Ps.
Only scenario I can come to think of where an actual battle of MIGHT will occur is this:

ESTP clash with ISTP when ESTP invade ISTP space and try to steal their stuff.
ESTP will try to flee the scene with loot, but ISTP will not let that happen as it is their stuff.
ESTP wont let go of loot that is already in hand so 2 options possible:
a) Make a run for it, but know that they have a disadvantage with loot
b) Destroy evidence, innocent until caught with their hand so far down in the honey jar that even Jesus wont forgive your sin
ESTP will be cornered, let's get ready to rumble!

I wasn't around when something like this happened. I got the circumstances explained by several people. One of them being the ISTP.
From what I know about the ESTP and the ISTP the example above was very likely to be how the scenario went down. I'd witnessed the ESTP "permanently borrow" stuff without asking as a reoccurring happening and I'd just about started to realize, at the time, that the ISTP's stuff was sacred! 

Anyway, those two just mentioned made me feel like this:
XSTPs suck. I wont know they are an XSTP before it's too late though. I'm kidding, these two individuals are extremes maintained by the next worst things that is: EXFJs!!!

Maybe they also are created by circumstances like being the youngest. 
ISTJxENFJ = ESTP
ESFJxINTP = ISTP


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## Hosker (Jan 19, 2011)

Theoretically, I would say Js argue the most with other Js. My personal experience kind of supports this.


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## bubbamamma (Feb 21, 2012)

I've noticed that I have worse conflicts with other Js. Generally, when I'm spending time with Ps, I learn to "expect the unexpected" and formulate multiple plans in my head on the fly for the different possible scenarios. I can go with the flow, but I plan it.

With fellow Js, on the other hand, especially the very inflexible ones, conflicts can get messier. Sometimes when they don't understand a point I'm trying to make (not disagree with, but don't understand - there is a difference), arguments erupt, or when our plans conflict. Additionally, I've noticed that _generally _ Js are more likely to hold grudges and want revenge (whether it's actually justified or completely irrational), which I really don't have time to deal with, due to everything else I'm currently fitting into my life.

My best friends are a pretty even mix of Js and Ps.


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## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

I think this totally depends on the context of the conflict. For instance, Ti and Fi doms can be extremely stubborn about their "logic" or "feelings" and blow up on you if they are unwilling to compromise or explore alternatives farther, Te and Fe doms can be extremely stubborn about throwing out their typical approach to logic or feelings to experiment with something new on the fly, while Ni and Si doms can be stubborn about letting go of a subjective perception, while Ne and Se doms can be stubborn about exploring the world outside of their own bubble of intuition or sensing...I dunno, I've basically seen it all in both P doms and J doms, Ps/Js, what have you. I think Ps tend to be a bit more passive-aggressive though, while Js tend to be more direct. The conflicts I've had between both have been pretty even overall, and I haven't seen any particular trends in what happens when two Js clash or two Ps clash, etc. Almost any topic that comes up about the J/P labels are probably a self-fulfilling prophecy, since there is no universal definition of J/P in types (really, what are the "true" J types and the "true" P types? Probably none, since every type uses J/P functions and, based on their overall consciousness in a person, no matter what position they are in, they have a pretty equal chance of causing a person to be as J as a higher J or as P as a lower P, since they can be more easily controlled in higher consciousness, which can result in them either being rigid or highly subdued, depending on the person, while in the lower form, they are less in control, so a person could have a rather out-of-control rigid use of them, depending on the person, or a rather out-of-control subdued use, depending on the person). This is the interesting point I've gotten to in Jungian psychology. Besides personality type, there's always temperament at play, etc.


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## Larac (Aug 6, 2013)

In terms of both sides being unrelenting and pushing for their argument, J vs J.
With one side getting frustrated at the other, and maybe acquiescing from the weaker side, J vs P.


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## rawrmosher (Apr 22, 2013)

Honestly it 's extremely one sided with the J's in my life. They'll be getting themselves worked up on something I've done(or HAVEN'T done more like) while I'll be trying to apologise and calm them down 

I swear all the people getting early heart conditions are all J's.


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## I Kant (Jan 19, 2013)

Mr.Xl Vii said:


> since life in itself is chaos.


Strip a being of the laws of nature and watch its atoms and molecules rip itself apart, and all equilibrium be fatally departed.

Just saying. Complexity isn't chaos, dude. Nor is change or uncertainty.


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## monemi (Jun 24, 2013)

Berdudget said:


> But what I find happens often is Js think Ps are arguing when they're really not. So the J gets angry and the P gets confused. I do think, generally speaking, Js are more likely to START arguments in the first place.


^^ This ^^ Again and again. My husband is an ISFJ. The number of times he thought I was arguing a point but I was just asking a question. It's amazing. You can ask me all manner of questions and I won't think anything of it. He assumes I'm being passive-aggressive because his mother is very passive aggressive. I have to give a long explanation before he gets it. Oh well.


Sometimes I argue for shits and giggles. But their short lived and the tone is lighter.


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## mushr00m (May 23, 2011)

..


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## aphinion (Apr 30, 2013)

I have more issues with P types. They can bring me out of my schedule, or they can drive me insane. Sometimes their disorganization is infuriating, especially when it interferes with my plans.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

rawrmosher said:


> Honestly it 's extremely one sided with the J's in my life. They'll be getting themselves worked up on something I've done(or HAVEN'T done more like) while I'll be trying to apologise and calm them down
> *I swear all the people getting early heart conditions are all J's.*


then you'd be correct. 
90% of all heart attacks happen to type A personalities (and Js are far more likely to be type A than Ps)


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## Olde Irish (Apr 5, 2013)

INTJ here and honestly, its more about the persons inability to cope or be an adult and keep an order. I have gotten on well with P's while wanting to strangle some J's and vice versa. I have my order and I ask that it be respected.


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## Chesire Tower (Jan 19, 2013)

With me, I have mainly clashed with both ESXJs and to a lesser extent, XSFPs the most. Being a very strong N, it makes me squirm; when ESXJs/ISFJs try to force their SJ values down my throat and while I adore NPs; SPs drive me nuts because it is hard to count on them for anything. I value reliability and NPs seem on the whole, to be more accountable. 

Also, SPs tend to drown me in a sea of details, that frequently don't seem to go anywhere. OTOH, when NPs meander; at least it is usually fascinating to listen to, even when I have no freaking clue where they are going with it.

ESFJs drive me the craziest because they always trying to force their annoying moral judgments down my throat.

The vast majority of my clashes have been with XSFJs/ESTJs - perhaps because they are the most likely to push their alien values on me.


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## ilythia (Jun 26, 2012)

teddy564339 said:


> For me, I see obvious conflicts and misunderstandings occurring between E vs. I types, S vs. N types, and T vs. F types, even if they have two or three other preferences in common.
> 
> I certainly see it occurring in J vs. P types as well, and I've read all about these in books about type. P's feeling stifled by J's, J's viewing P's as unorganized, etc.
> 
> ...



Hi teddy!

I agree that J types can clash, and quite often do. I believe this is because each has a vision of how things should be, and those two visions are usually not the same thing. For example, one J type might find lateness for 10 minutes to be not so bad, while another J would settle for nothing but being on time.

J types may also be "J" about different matters. Like, one J would be anal about the order of his things, and another J would be anal about the order of his schedule. Yet another J could be anal about how his tea is made.

I'm very tolerant about people but I find that they are not as tolerant as I am, and I find that J types can find me intimidating or irritating. I'm not certain but it may be because I have my own sense of order about things that they may not agree with.

It also helps how extreme the "J-ness" of the two people are. Like, a 10% J would not probably have some trouble dealing with an 80% J.

I've noticed P combinations to be tension-free and harmonious but also a little directionless.


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## Peter (Feb 27, 2010)

teddy564339 said:


> For me, I see obvious conflicts and misunderstandings occurring between E vs. I types, S vs. N types, and T vs. F types, even if they have two or three other preferences in common.
> 
> I certainly see it occurring in J vs. P types as well, and I've read all about these in books about type. P's feeling stifled by J's, J's viewing P's as unorganized, etc.
> 
> ...


it depends on the other 3 letters as well. Just the J or just the P is too vague. You´re a P if your first or second function is Fi or Ti. So the J/P difference alone doesn't give that much information. You need the other letters as well.


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