# I love how Fe is described so differently on here between ISFJ and INFJ



## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

Sporadic Aura said:


> This one is particularly funny because lots of the times INFJ's try to guess what I'm thinking/feeling and are miles off, where as ISFJ's can sometimes be spot on. This probably has to do with us sharing Si/Ne, and relating in that way. The point is though, it all depends on the circumstance, and some of these things don't come down to type, there are other factors.


I've had my ISTJ friend pick up things my INFP friend hasn't. Honestly, it's time and closeness. ANY MBTI can be insightful if they're close enough and know you well enough ... People seriously get carried away exaggerating the strengths of types, as well as focusing on each other's weaknesses (rather than their own). It's stupid.


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

Always been a fan of this guy. Honestly. Both INFJ and ISFJ are incredibly good at reading people. 
Just in different ways. Neither is better or worse. Just different perspectives we see.


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## FearAndTrembling (Jun 5, 2013)

ningsta kitty said:


> don't even worry about it. I've read several posts from OP lately. It appears he is now out of a relationship (possibly the case) bitter, resentful. Wishes it wasn't against the rules to accuse people of mistype when it's none of his business. Point of orientation on others rather than working on himself. Personally, it's tiresome. INFJ's get trash talked just as much as ISFJ's. My closest friends mom is an ISFJ and she's amazing, smart, incredibly kind and compassionate - only problem is when she's angry she's incredibly passive aggressive. Not sure if it's a common theme with them (I've read it is) but, seriously, it's cliche.
> 
> OP, seriously. Get off the pitty pot blaming everyone. Who cares what people think. Why does it bother you? What difference in YOUR life does some idiot on the nets opinion make? If you're venting and working things out, great, I get it. But stop blaming and attacking other people so you feel better about yourself. It lends to more insult and negative association to your type, which ironically is what you're insistently complaining is about.


Exactly. How we he even know the reputation INFJ has? Nearly any negative poll in NF subforum has INFJ winning. Coldest NF, INFJ in a landslide. Most judgmental. INFJ. We are far and away the most disliked NF type, among other NF. A lot of it coming from INFP. But it's funny, so who cares. 

ISFJ actually won "most underrated type" on here in a landslide. I would think INFJ is considered one of the most overrated types, along with INTJ. And threads like this perpetuate that. Massive inflation through the internet, has dropped the stock price of Ni through the floor. Through no fault of my own.


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

FearAndTrembling said:


> Exactly. How we he even know the reputation INFJ has? Nearly any negative poll in NF subforum has INFJ winning. Coldest NF, INFJ in a landslide. Most judgmental. INFJ. We are far and away the most disliked NF type, among other NF. A lot of it coming from INFP. But it's funny, so who cares.
> 
> ISFJ actually won "most underrated type" on here in a landslide. I would think INFJ is considered one of the most overrated types, along with INTJ. And threads like this perpetuate that. Massive inflation through the internet, has dropped the stock price of Ni through the floor. Through no fault of my own.


Actually, I've read a lot of his posts lately and I'm not taking it personal. I think he's going through a hard time right now. Irony! INFJ assumption. Lol! Even so ... EVERY SINGLE TYPE gets trash talked. Every single type gets stereotyped negatively and we all have weaknesses. Personally, ISFJ's and INFJ's are very similar and so different. Same in the way INFJ's are similar to other NF's in a way yet so different. It's all relative. 

If you want to see it negative, you will. The only reason I'm posting is because I've seen so many posts lately by this guy and it's all 'blame' and passive aggressive anger. It's not nice. It's like, "dude. I get it. You're hurting". But try to post threads focusing on you to resolve shit. Not on how much everybody sucks. It's sorta misery loves company style and it's a total buzz kill. Why can't we all get along instead pinning against one another? Lol!! How cliche of a sentiment! :tongue: Seriously tho. You're disturbing my happy by making everyone unhappy!


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

I love how there is this popularity contest going on for some people regarding to type.
Like any orientation is somehow better than others.

Each orientation works as a niche, and each quadra tries to pull society towards one that supports
their way of orientating, and outlawing as much as possible approches that conflict.

There isn't any better orientation, just different.
But at the same time that difference is bad for you.
And that is the real dilemma.


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## Khiro (Nov 28, 2012)

You're right to bitch about it, but all this "funny stuff, guys" shit implies blame where blame likely doesn't exist. Biases and misconceptions spread largely without intent. You may not like it, but people believe these things. They aren't trying to be assholes, they're accidentally being assholes.


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## JTHearts (Aug 6, 2013)

ningsta kitty said:


> don't even worry about it. I've read several posts from OP lately. It appears he is now out of a relationship (possibly the case) bitter, resentful. Wishes it wasn't against the rules to accuse people of mistype when it's none of his business. Point of orientation on others rather than working on himself. Personally, it's tiresome. INFJ's get trash talked just as much as ISFJ's. My closest friends mom is an ISFJ and she's amazing, smart, incredibly kind and compassionate - only problem is when she's angry she's incredibly passive aggressive. Not sure if it's a common theme with them (I've read it is) but, seriously, it's cliche.
> 
> OP, seriously. Get off the pitty pot blaming everyone. Who cares what people think. Why does it bother you? What difference in YOUR life does some idiot on the nets opinion make? If you're venting and working things out, great, I get it. But stop blaming and attacking other people so you feel better about yourself. It lends to more insult and negative association to your type, which ironically is what you're insistently complaining is about.


Who the hell are you to tell other people what their motivations for doing things are?


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## Kyusaku (Mar 18, 2014)

ningsta kitty said:


> don't even worry about it. I've read several posts from OP lately. It appears he is now out of a relationship (possibly the case) bitter, resentful. Wishes it wasn't against the rules to accuse people of mistype when it's none of his business. Point of orientation on others rather than working on himself. Personally, it's tiresome. INFJ's get trash talked just as much as ISFJ's. My closest friends mom is an ISFJ and she's amazing, smart, incredibly kind and compassionate - only problem is when she's angry she's incredibly passive aggressive. Not sure if it's a common theme with them (I've read it is) but, seriously, it's cliche.
> 
> OP, seriously. Get off the pitty pot blaming everyone. Who cares what people think. Why does it bother you? What difference in YOUR life does some idiot on the nets opinion make? If you're venting and working things out, great, I get it. But stop blaming and attacking other people so you feel better about yourself. It lends to more insult and negative association to your type, which ironically is what you're insistently complaining is about.


It is despicable to use the OPs personnal life to discredit this whole discussion. You don't contribute to anything, just fighting ego with ego.


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

john.thomas said:


> Who the hell are you to tell other people what their motivations for doing things are?


Did you not notice I point out it's an assumption? Who the hell are you? The guys been blasting everyone else for sucking so bad. Maybe he should focus on himself.


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

Kyusaku said:


> It is despicable to use the OPs personnal life to discredit this whole discussion. You don't contribute to anything, just fighting ego with ego.


Well I think it's despicable to trash other types and whine constantly. I also think it's stupid to not consider motives with regards to stupid debates over who is better than who, (which motives are persona or he wouldn't be motivated).


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## Kyusaku (Mar 18, 2014)

ningsta kitty said:


> Well I think it's despicable to trash other types and whine constantly. I also think it's stupid to not consider motives with regards to stupid debates over who is better than who, (which motives are persona or he wouldn't be motivated).


To me it is not despicable but saddening. You are quick to judge on the worth of the debate, it spawned many interesting posts. Your posts are aggressive in form at least. Motives don't play any part though, because the topic is about why Ni is viewed more favourably than Si related with Fe auxilary. Ideally this is technical stuff with slice of life tidbits. Whatever your motivations are, at least be less unpleasant.


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

Kyusaku said:


> To me it is not despicable but saddening. You are quick to judge on the worth of the debate, it spawned many interesting posts. Your posts are aggressive in form at least. Motives don't play any part though, because the topic is about why Ni is viewed more favourably than Si related with Fe auxilary. Ideally this is technical stuff with slice of life tidbits. Whatever your motivations are, at least be less unpleasant.


Didn't seem like a legit debate to me at all!! I'm sorry. Are we in the debate forum? My bad.


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## hal0hal0 (Sep 1, 2012)

FearAndTrembling said:


> Keirsey summed it up well. Sensing is about the moment. *ISFJ, their Fe never transcends the situation.* It doesn't collect to a larger pattern. Ni is quite different than Si. Jung didn't mention anything about Si doms being prophets or visionaries.


Whether or not an ISXJ is capable of "transcending a situation" is more dependent on the individual than whatever functions they "use." The basis of PT is the overidentification with a particular mode of information processing, which has nothing to do with the "roles" that Keirsey assigns to particular types. What Jung was more interested in was the maladaptive way in which people of ALL TYPEs suppress one aspect of their cognition in favor of another (hence, unconscious-conscious dyad).

Potentialities (N) are anchored by sensing data, so functions do not exist in a vacuum (i.e., the conscious-unconscious dyad... it's not simply "Ni" or "Si" but more accurately, Ni-Se and Si-Ne... or perhaps the dominant suppressing the inferior). Symbolism, figurative language, etc. are not exclusively the domain of sensing or intuition, but an intertwining of both.

This same "yin-yang" logic can be applied to the rational functions as well.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I am actually not sure what is meant by "transcend the situation" here, because there are two dyads to consider:

1. Sensing (that which exists) vs. Intuition (that which could exist or might have exist).
2. Objective vs. subjective

To me, all extraverted functions could feasibly be "incapable of transcending the situation."


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

Kyusaku said:


> To me it is not despicable but saddening. You are quick to judge on the worth of the debate, it spawned many interesting posts. Your posts are aggressive in form at least. Motives don't play any part though, because the topic is about why Ni is viewed more favourably than Si related with Fe auxilary. Ideally this is technical stuff with slice of life tidbits. Whatever your motivations are, at least be less unpleasant.


Btw. Don't quote me anymore. I'm unpleasant because I'm surrounded by unpleasant. Which is why I said something in the first place. All of his posts are unpleasant. So I said something but probably shouldn't have. The damage was done. I've now joined the unpleasant. So now I can be right there with him. Pointing at everyone at how much they suck. Makes sense right? (Rhetorical question of course).


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## Golden Rose (Jun 5, 2014)

_Classy_. 

But I'm sure you're aware of how the dominant and the auxiliary functions are a team constantly working in synergy. All Fe types are extremely good at reading people and more socially aware than other types but, being Si and Ni completely different influences, the main difference between SFJs and NFJs lies in the kind of information they choose to draw.

Both Ni and Si store information that will be unconsciously written as a mental map to regulate and guide any suitable future actions before even connecting the dots. But while Ni focuses on underlying patterns and mental sensations that could be applied to anything new yet similar, Si tends to be more literal and focused on the visuals and physical sensations felt in a certain situation. Those are harder to reproduce in a different context, explaining why NJs adapt to change easier than SJs do.

How does this influence Fe?
Fe+Ni → Will focus more on their internal feelings, often finding noticing hidden connections between two seemingly different people and working that stored knowledge into finding the best and unexpected way to connect with their interlocutor. 
Will build relationships and social acceptance by giving people exactly what they want.
Fe+Si → Knowing what worked for them in the past and the kinds of people who can offer them that kind of security. So they will likely work to build a social net around those values and seek similar minded people, they'd rather charm people into agreeing with them than put up a facade. 

Deliberately ignoring the concept to point out the shallowness of those lowly NFs does come across as being intentionally oblivious, doesn't it?

Oh, and ENFJ vs ESFJ rivalry? Doesn't exist.
Too busy following our Fe in the outside world, sorry. 

Have a good day! xo


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## pmj85 (Jul 31, 2010)

Fern said:


> This thread pisses me off.


<3


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## letmeknowwhenitworks (Sep 4, 2011)

Cinnamon83 said:


> @_Merihim_
> 
> I didn't condemn People as in (plural) for starters, also I didn't condemn her off of her get the riddle, I said that *her* happens to have manipulative behavior, & I said that *she* *happens* to be, ISFJ. I did not say I am condemning her because she is an ISFJ or because she alone solved the riddle. I am saying the 3 things all correlate in her case.
> @_letmeknowwhenitworks_ your probably right that I should have worded things entirely different so it didn't come off that I was combining her type with my assumption she's a psycho. I just think she is a psycho and this happened to be her type. But I think your right, I probably made a tactical error here in the way I delivered it. I agree with you. Its not right to suggest she is pyscho because of her MBTI, but I don't see the harm and saying that she is a psycho who happens to be her mbti.
> ...



No, I'm not saying that you shouldn't call someone a psycho because of their type (although that is a wise thing to do). I'm saying that if she truly is a psycho, how do you know that this ISFJ facade truly is her personality and not something she's masquerading as to fit in? If it's a mask, then she really isn't an ISFJ, or any other type for that matter, because what the functions are describing now is her persona and not her personality. 

Also, that riddle appears to me a test of the common sense of the user. To extend its implications to include psychopathy means anyone would be making a lot of (untested) assumptions to get there. Not very convincing. If you want to start exploring psychopathy diagnosis, why not include the entire context of her upbringing into consideration? Is it her behaviour that suggests callousness or is she inherently callous (I make the distinction because behaviour is sometimes circumstantial and always learnt)? Finally, and this is is probably the most important one, to start labelling people as psychopaths, etc., it's important to use an objective rather than a subjective criterion because of the social and psychological implications associated with the word.


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## Scelerat (Oct 21, 2012)

Kyora said:


> I just think you're stereotyping... My bestfriend is a xNTJ, and she says I'm adorable yet I'm a ISFJ. Why do you think we are not adorable? Just because of Si? JUst because of one function we are manipulative bastard? Come one get to know some of us before saying that. I'm definitely not manipulative, never was, never will. Why? Because I was raised like this. Yet I care for people that I love, is that wrong? Is that wrong to think of your friends and now beforehand what they will forget bringing and that you bring it for them? Is that so wrong to know your friend so much? Is that being a manipulative bitch?
> 
> I don't think everyone is stereotyping, but why is the majority being like that? (What I mean by majority is the majority of people that actually always answers to all thread)
> 
> ...


I love the fact that your first sentence accused me of stereotyping, your second sentence did just that, in that way I guess it was kind of adorable. 

I also never said that one type was better than another type, I said that I tend to find INFJs adorable and ISFJs, or rather XSFJs in general to be a pain in my ass. 

My mom is an ISFJ, I love her, but she's still a major pain in the ass. 

Your post kind of illustrates everything I dislike about Fe.
A) You accuse me of stereotyping (socially unacceptable behavior in some circles) in an attempt to somehow make my dislike of Si + Fe less valid. 

B) You add in the appeal to people "But my friend says I have an awesome personality" 

All I said was "I prefer chocolate with whipped cream over chocolate with cockroaches" I don't see why that's wrong.


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## Kyora (Mar 17, 2013)

Scelerat said:


> I love the fact that your first sentence accused me of stereotyping, your second sentence did just that, in that way I guess it was kind of adorable.
> 
> I also never said that one type was better than another type, I said that I tend to find INFJs adorable and ISFJs, or rather XSFJs in general to be a pain in my ass.
> 
> ...


You do have a point since you pointed out that it was from your perspective, I should have paid more attention to that.
I wasn't accusing you of stereotyping, I said "I think" which from my perspective is less strong than "You are", so I kind of less so, as far as I'm concerned is not a typical accusation but just stating what could be a fact. Which apparently isn't a 100% true, I admit.

"B) You add in the appeal to people "But my friend says I have an awesome personality" " Be careful of what you say, I did say I had an awesome personality, I stated just that my bestfriend which happens to be a xNTJ thinks I'm adorable. I added the appeal because I do not think that of myself. I added the so called appeal to make a valid point which was disregarded by you and seen as an appeal to make myself feel better which isn't.

Just wanted to state that it is not a post from ISFJS but a post from one little ISFJ who was pissed off by reading that people think that Si+FE is manipulative. I believe that every type is capable of that, it is not restricted to MBTI, it is restricted to personal experiences that has made people who they are. But I guess you will only think what you want to think, 

so anyway, let's call it a day.


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## Scelerat (Oct 21, 2012)

Kyora said:


> Just wanted to state that it is not a post from ISFJS but a post from one little ISFJ who was pissed off by reading that people think that Si+FE is manipulative. I believe that every type is capable of that, it is not restricted to MBTI, it is restricted to personal experiences that has made people who they are. But I guess you will only think what you want to think,
> 
> so anyway, let's call it a day.


Hey now, I never called Si + Fe manipulative, I merely remarked that I find it anything but adorable. I think it's great when someone like the ESFJ at my office tries to do things so everyone who works there enjoys coming to work, can gather over a homemade cake, or something like that. 

It's something I rarely think of doing, despite being a quite capable baker and chef.


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## Kyora (Mar 17, 2013)

@Scelerat I know it wasn't you that called SFJ manipulative, but I was careless when choosing the post (that happens...). But I was just pissed off and I saw your post and didn't think twice. I was impulsive and not thinking (that happens a lot...), I'm sorry if I offended you.


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## Scelerat (Oct 21, 2012)

Kyora said:


> @_Scelerat_ I know it wasn't you that called SFJ manipulative, but I was careless when choosing the post (that happens...). But I was just pissed off and I saw your post and didn't think twice. I was impulsive and not thinking (that happens a lot...), I'm sorry if I offended you.


Like I told my ESFJ colleague, I'm not the type to get offended, it gives people power over me. I'm not the type to have an emotional breakdown and go on sick leave. I'm type to quietly leave and come back the next day wearing a black trench coat, carrying a shotgun and proceeding to shoot all of you in the face.


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## Harpu (Dec 1, 2013)

http://personalitycafe.com/isfj-forum-nurturers/171938-amazing-things-about-isfjs-non-isfjs-compliment-thread.html

I also posted this a few days ago:
http://personalitycafe.com/isfj-forum-nurturers/246601-experience-healthy-isfjs.html

Maybe this shows the other side of our annoying Fe :tongue:

i just want to show that not all people see us ISFJs in a bad light :kitteh:


@ningsta kitty thank you for that video <3


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

letmeknowwhenitworks said:


> No, I'm not saying that you shouldn't call someone a psycho because of their type (although that is a wise thing to do). I'm saying that if she truly is a psycho, how do you know that this ISFJ facade truly is her personality and not something she's masquerading as to fit in? If it's a mask, then she really isn't an ISFJ, or any other type for that matter, because what the functions are describing now is her persona and not her personality.
> 
> Also, that riddle appears to me a test of the common sense of the user. To extend its implications to include psychopathy means anyone would be making a lot of (untested) assumptions to get there. Not very convincing. If you want to start exploring psychopathy diagnosis, why not include the entire context of her upbringing into consideration? Is it her behaviour that suggests callousness or is she inherently callous (I make the distinction because behaviour is sometimes circumstantial and always learnt)? Finally, and this is is probably the most important one, to start labelling people as psychopaths, etc., it's important to use an objective rather than a subjective criterion because of the social and psychological implications associated with the word.


Um yeah she is an ISFJ, her persona is probably closer to an ESFP or an ENFP. She likes to pretend she's a free spirit that is endearing and social and likable. She is infact a Introverted, Sensor, Feeler, and Judger. She likes to pretend she's a extrovert who is a free spirit. (she's not). So yeah I think that maybe I didn't make clear that the ISFJ is not the facade or persona. That is her. The facade or persona is of a lovable free spirited extravert. 

In regards to the riddle I will respectively state that I didn't make the riddle or state myself personally that the person who solves the riddle is a psychopath. I heard the riddle in the group, and she was the one who got it. I was just randomly adding a scenario of an ISFJ I know and their behavior and the fact they got the riddle. I do not think the riddle itself alone says anything exclusive. Its the combination. 

Honestly I doubt I would have even shared the story of the ISFJ I know and her behavior and the riddle all being occurrences and just stating all the commonalities I seen in her case. Had I known that in general it would have been so misinterpreted on this thread, (I know you didn't do this) but the whole "you shouldn't generalize" type of sentiment when I repeatedly stated I was saying HER not everyone. And saying she fits the bill. I honestly just never expected an innocent comment on a chain of events in a group among an individual would be so controversial. 

I do agree with you tho that its really not a concrete evaluation of a psychopath. 

Her outward behavior is very sweet demeanor. Her actual underlined sentiments and inherent personality is very insecure and manipulative.


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

ningsta kitty said:


> I've had my ISTJ friend pick up things my INFP friend hasn't. Honestly, it's time and closeness. ANY MBTI can be insightful if they're close enough and know you well enough ... People seriously get carried away exaggerating the strengths of types, as well as focusing on each other's weaknesses (rather than their own). It's stupid.


I do agree with you.

The same ISFJ girl I referenced in negative light in regards to a riddle that was taken much more controversial then I meant it, actually in a positive light of her. 

She actually does pick up on some random things that are very very insightful. (I just happen to question how she filters them in HER case) She has a lot of insight tho.


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## Oprah (Feb 5, 2014)

ningsta kitty said:


> Btw. Don't quote me anymore. I'm unpleasant because I'm surrounded by unpleasant. Which is why I said something in the first place. All of his posts are unpleasant. So I said something but probably shouldn't have. The damage was done. I've now joined the unpleasant. So now I can be right there with him. Pointing at everyone at how much they suck. Makes sense right? (Rhetorical question of course).


Honey... </3
how the fuck do you have 12000 posts?
I fear for this forum now. 



_(Btw your Fi is showing very clearly). _





Some of us don't need to fake being "special" to feel validated about ourselves. 
I'd suggest you look for some help, hun <3


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

UglierBetty said:


> Honey... </3
> how the fuck do you have 12000 posts?
> I fear for this forum now.
> 
> ...


Passive aggressive. That's you.


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

Harpu said:


> http://personalitycafe.com/isfj-for...-about-isfjs-non-isfjs-compliment-thread.html
> 
> I also posted this a few days ago:
> http://personalitycafe.com/isfj-forum-nurturers/246601-experience-healthy-isfjs.html
> ...


Thank you.  that was my point I guess. It's okay I think to discuss things we don't like about other people, certain traits, but to attribute it to a certain type is foolish. Because every single personality type has its downsides. Personally I've met the most amazing every type, and the most awful as well.


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## Haydn (Sep 20, 2012)

I have never seen a vast amount of negative stereotypes about ISFJs here, I think overall I have probably seen more negatives written about INFJs than ISFJs but perhaps one is more sensitive to unflattering portrayals of one's own type.

Most of my friends are ISFJs, in my opinion, they and the ENFJs are the closest types to INFJs. I think where we are most different especially perhaps in the use of Fe is that they tend to be somewhat more concerned with the concrete welfare of others whereas I tend to be more concerned with the abstract/mental aspect. 

Also, in terms of reading people they tend to take a lot of the physical like how people dress and the organizations they belong to and so on in forming a judgement whereas I tend not to really care that much about physical appearances or other external factors in drawing my conclusions but rather something more vague like just others' 'undertone' and a pattern of their behaviors over a long period of time. 

I like INFJs better than ISFJs as one can imagine but I think that not all but the vast majority of ISFJs I have met have been what I consider thoroughly decent, intelligent people with great 'common sense'. However, many of the people on this forum are of the MBTI types that tend to be immune to the charms of ISFJs so realistically I would expect to see some negatives about them here occasionally.


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## Word Dispenser (May 18, 2012)

ISFJs are really cool. They're punky-geek-nerds! Perfect combo. :kitteh: 

If we could all be a little more ISFJ, the world would be a cooler, more fun place.


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## Raawx (Oct 9, 2013)

@ningsta kitty, @Scelerat, @UglierBetty, @Cinnamon83, @Kyusaku 

Guys, guys, guys. What the fuck are you all fighting about? No, honestly. Take a step back and think for a moment:

"Is it worth my time and energy getting mad at someone over a theory I believe in?" 
"Is this a good, efficient usage of my mental reserves and time?"

ISFJs are cool. I don't get along with them as much, but they're cool. INFJs are cool too. But you know what? You know whats more important? THE ACTUAL FUCKING PERSON THE TYPE BELONGS TO. I'm obsessed with MBTI, so I get it, but would you ever make the claim that all African Americans or all Whites eat, think or speak a certain way because of how they're established. No, probably not. The problem is that we're using a label to define a person, when all the label really does is just explain the person through a different lens. Nothing more.

Excuse me if you think I'm being a naive, peace-loving, ENFP-stereotype-fulfilling, hippy. I mean, I don't really fucking care if you do. I just can't stand to see individuals fighting over something that is so petty. People are not types, and types are not people. 

Stop playing games. If you're actually interested in a serious discussion on the merit of whether or not Fe auxiliary manifests differently in different types, then by all means, continue. However, if you're simply interested in your pissing contest laden with ad homs, strawmen and various forms of exaggerated rhetoric and fallaic thinking, then you best be heading elsewhere. No, seriously. Nothing pisses me off more than wasted potential due to petty infighting.


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## MidnightPicnic (Dec 14, 2013)

Cinnamon83 said:


> ...She (I realize is not every ISFJ) tends to operate on generic symbolism and when people who don't respond thru formality don't act receptive she flat out gets nasty (in a very covert way)...


I've contemplated sending this.. But I gotta say, I can relate/agree with much of what you wrote. I have an ex very-close friend who happens to be isfj too (any and every personality-type is capable of being a toxic individual of course, just sayin'). My friends also felt pretty uncomfortable around her. Her inability to recognize particular social cues just seemed so... hard to believe. She was very bouncy and flamboyant, but had a dark side. I don't want to get too much into it because I don't want this to then be applied to every isfj in the world, but she nearly destroyed my life. It was when I finally stood up to her (she really didn't see it coming, nor did I, that I would even dare not fear her. But that's how she looked at respect, as fear... I and my family learned this too late of course) after eight years of tolerating her condescension and belittlement of my friends, family, friendly innocent servers at restaurants I'd frequent, and me, humiliating me, deliberately crossing boundaries constantly because she could. All we could do was put it aside and say, "oh, that silly girl," because she was dating my brother (an infj), beyond her being a close friend of mine. He wasn't refused her strange treatments of course; he simply tolerated it, expected us to, & didn't want any of us talking about it, especially to her as it would "insult" her, even at the risk of eating our own dignity for her entertainment. I felt like I survived something traumatic. Every day is getting better, I feel much stronger now, I really had to contemplate living a few times, that's how bad she got into my head, but I'm getting my old self back gradually.

She was asked that riddle too, funny enough. She got the answer "correct" and was proud that it had to do with sociopathy. (I figured it was because she's very into zombies and loud bloody horror flicks and it merely related to them...)

Conversely though, I have an isfj friend that seems almost like a 100% upgrade compared to the other, and it's how I'd like to consider some if not most isfjs to be, I haven't met many. They share similar qualities of course, like enjoying alone-time, the love to sing to/for people, small close-knit group of friends, a certain almost airy "cuteness", but she is a lot more laid back and is actually extremely considerate in many ways. I don't know, she seems *genuinely* happy, maybe that's the difference. She's also super organized. Two very different sides of the same isfj coin. 

I'm glad to see your post, to know that I'm not the only one who has had to tolerate someone so damn belligerently, obnoxiously and at times cruelly myopic or neglectful, needing others to compensate for her admiration in being "emotionally-challenged" - of course my story was a lot more twisted than yours, I can't give details, but at least I can't be so stupid again as to trust certain people, I hope. 

It's a hard thing to talk about, you really got to have met someone like this to know what we're talking about, and toxic people come in every shape, form, colour and every personality-type, just thought I should clarify as to not offend anyone, just in case. : )

I'm glad you shared your views, you're pretty blunt haha, but gosh these kinds of people aren't the easiest to explain. 
Thank you for being open here, I appreciate it~ ♡ 
Reading and replying to your comment was a rather cathartic experience for me! ^_^


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## Kyusaku (Mar 18, 2014)

@MidnightPicnic

My mother is an extremely unhealthy ISFJ and I had terrible times as well. But meanwhile I still love her for parts of who she is and what her intentions really are. ISFJs are so much more grounded than me, ressourceful and deep. Intuitive person often are more focused on the outcomes than the action itself, deeming it shallow and doing it by necessity. Misguided people often are destructive people, but we all are misguided in some way. Depending on our type it will manifest itself in different forms.


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## Chesire Tower (Jan 19, 2013)

I wish that more people would distinguish between their PREFRENCES and distinguish them from REALITY. IOW, I prefer XNTJs to XSTJs because I personally become overwhelmed whenever I "perceive" that I'm either being nitpicked at or being flooded with facts or details . . .

B U T . . .

That is just a value judgement based upon the ordering of my functional stack - as opposed to objective truth. To the XSTJs, they are doing neither of the things I perceived but attempting to give accurate information. To them, details _ad nauseum_ clarifies things; to me it just creates massive confusion. They accuse me of not sticking with the facts and I accuse them of nitpicking to a ridiculous extent. Neither view is correct and neither is objective. True objectivity is actually REALIZING this.


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## Sixty Nein (Feb 13, 2011)

It's sort of hilarious why people refer to types based on their supposed functional preference than just the opposite of what their actual preferences are. IE Si to Se types instead of ISFJ to ESFJ. I'm certain that an Introverted Sensing type + Feeling would probably be different than someone who is an Extroverted Feeling type + Sensation. I mean yeah I'm being dense as fuck on purpose, but really why does nobody comment on the Se + Fe for example as something that is conformist?

It's just...you guys are very linear thinkers.


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## angelfish (Feb 17, 2011)

Funny to me because I find SFJ more comforting and trustworthy than NFJ based on personal experience. 

It's interesting how it is differently "flavored", but I don't think the underlying principles or tendencies are very different.


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## chimeric (Oct 15, 2011)

Functions don't work in isolation. Judgments are colored by perceptions, and hey look, the perceiving function comes first for both of these types. Does an anti-Si bias exist? Sure, but that doesn't mean Fe doesn't actually look different in the two types, because it does. The first post is reactionary and ignorant.


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## februarystars (Aug 22, 2012)

I think its fair to say that Fe comes across differently depending on whether its paired with Si or Ni, as has already been discussed. 

Both types have their strengths and none is inherently better or worse than the other. Different types just value different functions. As an ISFP I would have to say I do have a tendency to admire Ni and Se. But I can still see the positives and negatives of both types.

For all the negative descriptions that can be given of ISFJ's Fe, there are negative descriptions possible for INFJs too, and vice versa. For example I find SJs to be particularly reliable and caring in a crisis, and that's something I really value.


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## Kyro (May 26, 2014)

ISFJs are seen as naive. INFJs are seen as understanding.

The bias of N over S is too widespread on PerC. Many people have already said, No type or function is superior to another. 

I've found ISFJ hate threads! 

Most N's who hate on S types, or even vice versa are usually trying too hard to be something they're not. They're usually not even the type they say to be. Stop trying to make yourself special snowflakes.


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## Desiderium (Jan 31, 2014)

I really don't get the ISFJ hate. Well, objectively I do; some people have had bad experiences with persons they have concluded to be ISFJ for one reason or another and are now choosing to be biased against the entire type based off the actions of one or a few individuals. 

The intuitive bias probably originates more from misinformation in my opinion, anyone who can believe that sensors are inferior because they are "incapable" of abstract thought/comprehending abstractions, clearly does not understand that sensing is a _preference_ not a limitation, which usually leads me to question how much the individual actually knows about MBTI if they missed one of the more obvious core concepts?

I used to be the same way about ESFJ's, but I realized, it was juvenile and mean spirited. Not to mention closed minded.

Then again, aren't all biases?


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

I sincerely don't get the OP's motives. I posted initially as I noticed consistent threads about how much everyone else but him sucks. I use humor because conflict makes me uncomfortable but it only makes it worse. I didn't keep my mouth shut because it was a bad time and I didn't use my better judgment but toxic atmospheres really bother me and way more so when I'm stressed. Call it Fi. That's fine. Personally, I'm not sure why my type OR enneagram makes any difference to anyone but me (as I use it to better me which had been clear the last 2 years). I honestly don't get it. What is the OP's point? Other than being a troll to get a reaction from people, what's his motive. I speculated it might be due to a situation he mentioned in another thread and got attacked for it.

will someone elaborate why this guy is habitually passive aggressive and nonstop toxically argumentative. 

Which clearly differs from the guy who likes to debate. 

I just don't get it.


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## Kabosu (Mar 31, 2012)

Dead horse thread is dead horse.


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

UglierBetty said:


> it is 100% in line with the thread's topic.
> 
> 
> and if someone insults me I'm going to insult back... you guys are only teaming up on me because you don't want your echo chamber interrupted.


I do not believe my initial post an insult. I was trying to decipher your motive however. I can only conclude you do this for the lolz or some other personal reasons.


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## Chest (Apr 14, 2014)

UglierBetty said:


> and if someone insults me I'm going to insult back..


relax bro


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

UglierBetty said:


> http://www.thelibertybeacon.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/unpleasant_truths.jpg


Again. This is passive aggressive. If you're angry. Just say so.


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## cosmia (Jan 9, 2011)

UglierBetty said:


> If people insult me I'm going to be rude back.
> 
> (but since the 1st user is """""INFJ""""" nobody cares).


Lmao then don't be surprised if people call you out for your rudeness! Because it's not because they're being defensive over a mistype; it's because YOU'RE BEING RUDE.

NK barely insulted you. I think you just wanted to go off on an INFJ honestly.


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## Oprah (Feb 5, 2014)

ningsta kitty said:


> I posted initially as I noticed consistent threads about how much *everyone else but him sucks.*


You have reading comprehension issues



ningsta kitty said:


> I use humor because conflict makes me uncomfortable but it only makes it worse. I didn't keep my mouth shut because it was a bad time and I didn't use my better judgment but toxic atmospheres really bother me and way more so when I'm stressed.


fair



ningsta kitty said:


> What is the OP's point? Other than being a troll to get a reaction from people, what's his motive.


you have long since proved my point





ningsta kitty said:


> I do not believe my initial post an insult.


lol



ningsta kitty said:


> I was trying to decipher your motive however. I can only conclude you do this for the lolz or some other personal reasons.


Can't use your Ni to figure it out? Pity.


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## Oprah (Feb 5, 2014)

cosmia said:


> I think you just wanted to go off on an INFJ honestly.


Misunderstanding the thread.


It's about how - when people compare ISFJ to INFJ - the parts that are *almost identical* are complained about for ISFJ's, yet worshiped for INFJ's. 



Then the thread was flooded with people trying to justify it.... saying that _"oh no they ARE different! SJ's are really annoying, but NJ's are cute!"_


It's funny how a thread looking for discussion on an issue largely attracts commenters who fuel those same issues.


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## Kyro (May 26, 2014)

I don't know why one function is being used to belittle another function. I thought the saying about ''no type or function is superior to another" was already discussed. Do we need to talk about this again?

Examples:
"Seems like someones not using Ti.. Hm?''
"Wow, you're an obvious Fi.''


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## Kyusaku (Mar 18, 2014)

Both side got offended, there is no point in arguing about function it's all emotionnal at this point. Nobody is going to step down, the thread is pretty much a no man's land for unrelated bystanders. Maybe you should open an arena thread and get at each others throats once there, have members cheer or throw garbage at you. Until it settles your misunderstandings.


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

UglierBetty said:


> Can't use your Ni to figure it out? Pity.


Because you're 20 years old and a complete asshole ?


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

cosmia said:


> I think you just wanted to go off on an INFJ honestly.


I think so too. It happens. And to think my initial posting was to get everyone to stop being at odds. LOLOL!! When will I learn I have no capacity to communicate with sensors. They almost always misunderstand me aside from a few who are familiar with me enough. And they probably misunderstand me too but are just being nice. Lol!! :tongue:


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## Oprah (Feb 5, 2014)

dandere said:


> I don't know why one function is being used to belittle another function. I thought the saying about ''no type or function is superior to another" was already discussed. Do we need to talk about this again?
> 
> Examples:
> "Seems like someones not using Ti.. Hm?''
> "Wow, you're an obvious Fi.''


Just because people glamorize and romanticize INFJ which leads to a lot of typism on the forums.


The first step is to get people to stop thinking along the lines of: _*"I am literally the best person who has ever lived, so I must be an INFJ! It all makes perfect sense!!!"*_


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## Oprah (Feb 5, 2014)

ningsta kitty said:


> Because you're 20 years old and a complete asshole ?


lol I bet in a few pages you're going to deny that this was an insult as well


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## Oprah (Feb 5, 2014)

ningsta kitty said:


> When will I learn I have no capacity to communicate with sensors. They almost always misunderstand me aside from a few who are familiar with me enough. And they probably misunderstand me too but are just being nice. Lol!! :tongue:


nice try


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## Arya (Oct 17, 2012)

UglierBetty said:


> First off, read all you like on the two types - there is a TON of overlap. If you cut out half of each profile, the types would look pretty much exactly the same (because of Fe).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Most of those aren't descriptions of Fe. A lot of that is stereotypes of Ni vs Si, which are being blown out of proportion. For instance mind reading capabilities would be a total exaggeration of Ni. Conformance is a stupid stereotype of Si. But Fe going through Ni or Si would be a bit different admittedly. Because Fe picks up values when it goes through Si it would look to the past and past experiences for those values. That's why it gets the label conformist although that's a total exaggeration. Looking to the past for values does not equate to conformance to anything around you. Fe through Ni would look more to the future, and their values would come from the data picked up from Ni. Ni only seems archaic because Ni doms often don't consciously how they picked up their data.


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

UglierBetty said:


> lol I bet in a few pages you're going to deny that this was an insult as well


Actually. It is a question. You aren't very nice.


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## Kyro (May 26, 2014)

UglierBetty said:


> Just because people glamorize and romanticize INFJ which leads to a lot of typism on the forums.
> 
> 
> The first step is to get people to stop thinking along the lines of: _*"I am literally the best person who has ever lived, so I must be an INFJ! It all makes perfect sense!!!"*_


I thought INTJ was the type that people thought of that way.


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

UglierBetty said:


> lol I bet in a few pages you're going to deny that this was an insult as well


Okay. Not sure what the big deal is. This isn't the debate forum. I sincerely don't know what your problem is. Other than being grumpy and obstinately going on about how you seem to have some superior opinion of the functions , and how much people suck. It's why I posted in the first place. You're just not nice. You're a troll.


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

UglierBetty said:


> Just because people glamorize and romanticize INFJ which leads to a lot of typism on the forums.
> 
> 
> The first step is to get people to stop thinking along the lines of: _*"I am literally the best person who has ever lived, so I must be an INFJ! It all makes perfect sense!!!"*_


This is crazy. Are you serious? INFJ's get hated on all the time! Look at your thread for starters! You miss my point as well. Seriously. This was why I had a problem with you and said something. What's your problem with other people's opinions of other types?


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## Oprah (Feb 5, 2014)

ningsta kitty said:


> Okay. Not sure what the big deal is. This isn't the debate forum. I sincerely don't know what your problem is. Other than being grumpy and obstinately going on about how you seem to have some superior opinion of the functions , and how much people suck. It's why I posted in the first place. You're just not nice. You're a troll.


_"When will I learn I have no capacity to communicate with sensors. They almost always misunderstand me aside from a few who are familiar with me enough. And they probably misunderstand me too but are just being nice."_


I don't know you so I don't know if this post in italics (that YOU said) was facetious or not.



Even if it was, that is the attitude seen all over these forums, and it needs to be stopped. Your actions in this thread only work to ENHANCE those negative stereotypes and opinions.


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## Oprah (Feb 5, 2014)

[No message]


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## Kyro (May 26, 2014)

ningsta kitty said:


> This is crazy. Are you serious? INFJ's get hated on all the time! Look at your thread for starters! You miss my point as well. Seriously. This was why I had a problem with you and said something. What's your problem with other people's opinions of other types?



I haven't seen INFJ hate. Maybe I haven't looked into INFJ as much, since I know nobody who is INFJ. 

Every type gets hate, every type gets love, different types get one more than the other. Can we not accept that?


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

UglierBetty said:


> _"When will I learn I have no capacity to communicate with sensors. They almost always misunderstand me aside from a few who are familiar with me enough. And they probably misunderstand me too but are just being nice."_
> 
> 
> I don't know you so I don't know if this post in italics (that YOU said) was facetious or not.
> ...


I was serious .. This thread is case in point. It's not on purpose. It makes me sad. I like ISFJ's. I really don't know why we're arguing. Take it or leave it. I give up.


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## Oprah (Feb 5, 2014)

ningsta kitty said:


> I was serious


Jesus fucking Christ really?
I was giving you the benefit of the doubt.... oh... this is really unfortunate.




I almost feel bad for you...


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## JTHearts (Aug 6, 2013)

ningsta kitty said:


> I was serious .. This thread is case in point. It's not on purpose. It makes me sad. I like ISFJ's. I really don't know why we're arguing. Take it or leave it. I give up.


As a sensor, I am VERY offended.


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## Kyusaku (Mar 18, 2014)

You both have a grudge with an undetermined group of people guilty of raising your frustration, and each one of you embodies this group. Stereotypes are ingrained in people lacking understanding, there is no logic or will to that. The only way to fight it is having knowledge readily available to those curious enough. For the rest, pity them, their voices are the mandatory static present in any crowded community.


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## Oprah (Feb 5, 2014)

john.thomas said:


> As a sensor, I am VERY offended.


just made a thread about it


the shitstorm is about to start


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## Amaryllis (Mar 14, 2014)

FearAndTrembling said:


> Exactly. How we he even know the reputation INFJ has? Nearly any negative poll in NF subforum has INFJ winning. Coldest NF, INFJ in a landslide. Most judgmental. INFJ. We are far and away the most disliked NF type, among other NF. A lot of it coming from INFP. But it's funny, so who cares.


We are? For real? :O 
I didn't know it could be that way within the forum, especially coming from other intuitives!
Why do you think that is? (You don't have to make it long, I just had to ask because, even though I have some ideas as to why some people think this, I'm still quite surprised).


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## Kyro (May 26, 2014)

john.thomas said:


> As a sensor, I am VERY offended.



Why are you offended? As a sensor, In what way does it offend you? I'm not asking this in a sarcastic or jokingly tone, I'm curious.


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## JTHearts (Aug 6, 2013)

dandere said:


> Why are you offended? As a sensor, In what way does it offend you? I'm not asking this in a sarcastic or jokingly tone, I'm curious.


She doesn't think sensors are smart enough to understand her, which means she is calling me and all other sensors idiots.


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## Kyro (May 26, 2014)

john.thomas said:


> She doesn't think sensors are smart enough to understand her, which means she is calling me and all other sensors idiots.



I've been typed as a sensor before, twice (ISFJ and INTJ.) I guess it's a bit offensive, since I feel like my first impression to other intuitives is 'stupid.'

Sensors memorize, Intuitors understand. They're both good things, and you'd want both qualities together. I think this statement was off-topic but I feel like I had to add it in somehow.


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## Kyro (May 26, 2014)

http://personalitycafe.com/cognitiv...nsors-now-too-stupid-converse-intuitives.html

the shitstorm thread as said by Uglier Betty.


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## Kyusaku (Mar 18, 2014)

dandere said:


> I've been typed as a sensor before, twice (ISFJ and INTJ.) I guess it's a bit offensive, since I feel like my first impression to other intuitives is 'stupid.'
> 
> Sensors memorize, Intuitors understand. They're both good things, and you'd want both qualities together. I think this statement was off-topic but I feel like I had to add it in somehow.


Sensors understands things that intuitives can't. Sensors aren't intellectually passive. Every function comes with an inherent understanding.


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## Kyro (May 26, 2014)

Kyusaku said:


> Sensors understands things that intuitives can't. Sensors aren't intellectually passive. Every function comes with an inherent understanding.


Every type has their flaws, every type has their strengths. Some types have under-appreciated strengths, like sensors. Sensors have many good things that come with them. It doesn't mean other types don't, every type has the good and the bad.

I repeated myself quite a lot there.


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## Kyusaku (Mar 18, 2014)

dandere said:


> Every type has their flaws, every type has their strengths. Some types have under-appreciated strengths, like sensors. Sensors have many good things that come with them. It doesn't mean other types don't, every type has the good and the bad.
> 
> I repeated myself quite a lot there.


The problem is intuitives will tell how valuable their function are in detail, but for the sensors it will be so broad and generic that it comes as phoney to them. Like they are a necessity but their value is not worth mentionning, knowing, or even searching.


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## Kyro (May 26, 2014)

Kyusaku said:


> The problem is intuitives will tell how valuable their function are in detail, but for the sensors it will be so broad and generic that it comes as phoney to them. Like they are a necessity but their value is not worth mentionning, knowing, or even searching.


It's quite sad.


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## MidnightPicnic (Dec 14, 2013)

Kyusaku said:


> @MidnightPicnic
> 
> My mother is an extremely unhealthy ISFJ and I had terrible times as well. But meanwhile I still love her for parts of who she is and what her intentions really are. ISFJs are so much more grounded than me, ressourceful and deep. Intuitive person often are more focused on the outcomes than the action itself, deeming it shallow and doing it by necessity. Misguided people often are destructive people, but we all are misguided in some way. Depending on our type it will manifest itself in different forms.


Hey, thanks for reading my comment to Cinnamon83 and replying.

I can't look at my ex-friend as misguided - that is exactly what got me into trouble in the first place; being a pacifist (with those who orchestrate an "inquisition", then turn into victims and martyrs when confronted for deflection, like a really cheap party-magician - as in, I see right through your "illusion") doesn't do anyone any good with the exception of the "segregator". Actually, pacifying only passively validates their behaviour; thus commencing the 8-year mad tea-party, and then I need a lobotomy. :-/

If people are using "misguided" as a characteristic vs. a means to an end, then they're not misguided; they're making a choice to be guided elsewhere imo. Misguided is a serious understatement and trivialization for my and others' experience with this ex-friend. It's good to be *nice*, but being an apologist for sh*tty people is only misguiding *you*. This applies to any personality type that chooses to pursue a self-serving agenda.

Some "good byes" are really "hellos" to your stronger, confident self, evidently. Though I'm nowhere near where I wanna be in the development of my inferior Ti, to help me "help myself" correctly and attract healthier relationships. I can identify my Ti now, & it'll be an ongoing adventure from here.

Anyway, I'm glad to hear you and your mom get along. Have a good day~ ʕ•౪•ʔ


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## Kyusaku (Mar 18, 2014)

MidnightPicnic said:


> Hey, thanks for reading my comment to Cinnamon and replying.
> 
> I can't look at my ex-friend as misguided - that is exactly what got me into trouble in the first place; being a pacifist (with those who orchestrate an "inquisition", then turn into victims and martyrs when confronted for deflection, like a really cheap party-magician - as in, I see right through your "illusion") doesn't do anyone any good with the exception of the "segregator". Actually, pacifying only passively validates their behaviour; thus commencing the 8-year mad tea-party, and then I need a lobotomy. :-/
> 
> ...


Doing conscious choices with limited or dubious knowledge is a definition of the term misguided to me. You are detrimental to a misguided person by being passive, and allowing them to hurt you at the same time. You were friends, you can't deny that you share pleasant memories. You allowed her to get close enough to hurt you. She had a worth of her own but couldn't act according to it. And well, we don't get along at all my mother and I. I can't forgive some of her willing or mistaken choices. Yet it would be unjust not to remember her good deeds.


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## Amaryllis (Mar 14, 2014)

john.thomas said:


> She doesn't think sensors are smart enough to understand her, which means she is calling me and all other sensors idiots.


No I think you really misunderstood that one. I think what she meant is (@ningsta kitty feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) that the differences between intuitives and sensors are a difficulty for her, not because she thinks they are less intelligent, but because they think and aproach the world differently and that can prove hard for mutual understanding. I understand this because sometimes with sensors I have faced this problem aswell.

Picture this: two people are talking and trying to describe the world to the other, let's say that one is blind and one is deaf. They share the same world and yet some aspects of their life will be too different for them to explain to the other and to understand what the other means. 

See, it's not a matter of feeling superior, it's a matter of sometimes feeling too different from each other and therefore seeking other people more like yourself to feel more understood and accepted.


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## FakeLefty (Aug 19, 2013)

This thread.... 

I think I lost some brain cells reading through this.


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## Khiro (Nov 28, 2012)

ningsta kitty said:


> You know. This all started because I noticed patterns with the OP's posts. Which is just raging out of control. Completely taking my words out of context, starting a new thread. I'm not quite sure why I was the one hounded so bad and picked apart when ... I can't even say it. It'll only make it worse.


Telling an INFJ not to have faith in what they perceive to be true is as ridiculous as telling an INFP not to have beliefs. I also believe what you believe regarding the OP's motivations and I see nothing wrong with attempting assumptions in that regard. There is no great right to be believed in this world and there are people who will bite angrily at others for one thing while claiming their reasons are more valid.


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## MidnightPicnic (Dec 14, 2013)

Kyusaku said:


> Doing conscious choices with limited or dubious knowledge is a definition of the term misguided to me. You are detrimental to a misguided person by being passive, and allowing them to hurt you at the same time. You were friends, you can't deny that you share pleasant memories. You allowed her to get close enough to hurt you. She had a worth of her own but couldn't act according to it. And well, we don't get along at all my mother and I. I can't forgive some of her willing or mistaken choices. Yet it would be unjust not to remember her good deeds.


I allowed her to get close to me because I *trusted* her, and boy do I recognize my naivety in retrospect. Good memories don't counter messed up actions though, right? I'm not that delusional anymore. I'm suspicious how relatable our situations are anyway, but I'm sure you mean well with your assumptions about my experience. See? I can be self-deprecating sometimes too. I don't really see what all the hype's about though. 
ʅ(｡◔‸◔｡)ʃ

I'm sorry, I don't mean to make her out to be deficient of good qualities and deeds. Like anybody, she had a variety of good qualities and bad, including a lack of compunction, which could be a pleasant quality to some, anything's possible. Unfortunately, I wont reminisce and romanticize about someone I believe to be a volatile wiener, and needn't feel obligated to. It would be a disservice to the people in my life, including another isfj, who genuinely do care about people, and they'd never stoop so low. We exhaust every option and communicate before doing anything too drastic.

But it should make you happy to know that (from a safe, impenetrable distance) I have forgiven her, just in case she develops a healthy conscience one day. ⁽⁽ ◝(´꒵ `◍)◟ ₎₎ (ؓؒؒؑؑؖؔؓؒؐؐ⁼̴̀ωؘؙؖؕؔؓؒؑؐؕ⁼̴̀ )


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## Kyusaku (Mar 18, 2014)

MidnightPicnic said:


> I allowed her to get close to me because I *trusted* her, and boy do I recognize my naivety in retrospect. Good memories don't counter messed up actions though, right? I'm not that delusional anymore. I'm suspicious how relatable our situations are anyway, but I'm sure you mean well with your assumptions about my experience. See? I can be self-deprecating sometimes too. I don't really see what all the hype's about though.
> ʅ(｡◔‸◔｡)ʃ
> 
> I'm sorry, I don't mean to make her out to be deficient of good qualities and deeds. Like anybody, she had a variety of good qualities and bad, including a lack of compunction, which could be a pleasant quality to some, anything's possible. Unfortunately, I wont reminisce and romanticize about someone I believe to be a volatile wiener, and needn't feel obligated to. It would be a disservice to the people in my life, including another isfj, who genuinely do care about people, and they'd never stoop so low. We exhaust every option and communicate before doing anything too drastic.
> ...


My Fi reached the roof, I'm sorry about that. :blushed:


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## Kabosu (Mar 31, 2012)

I kind of thought the initial post made sense, but later posts showed me he's not very constructive at arguing. :-/


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## TreeBob (Oct 11, 2008)

OK so I was going to issue some infractions, but I would have had to infract a lot of different people. So instead this thread is shut down for being completely unnecessary. Shame on many of you.


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