# ISTJ males and "Femphobia".



## Finn_the_Human (Jan 1, 2013)

Hi, I'm an ENFP, so I'm just throwing this questionout there for all you manly ISTJ men to answer. I have just had a misunderstanding with an ISTJ man, which I think I think stems from the ISTJ desire to confirm to certain standards of masculinity, and their fear of not only feminine items, but of anything which could be regarded feminine on principle. My father was ISTJ, my mother ISFJ, and they had a conventional loveless marriage based on principals, he was the man who went to work and was the breadwinner, she was the housewife... ( yea, I know, she married a house!) He was ex military, and appeared to have no emotions, never cried, never showed affection either at home or in public, wore pretty much the same clothes his whole life ( he had some items he was wearing at 70 which he bought in his thirties!) But most of all he had an aversion to doing anything he considered women's work, and that included washing, shopping, cooking, cleaning and taking care of me as a child. He never took me out in the pram, never changed a diaper, never feed me or even play with me. I was pretty attention starved, and my poor mum lost a baby before I was born, that he would never talk about. He did have a grand collection of power tools and army medals tho.
This brings me to male ISTP friend.. And what I consider strange phobic behaviour. I did a concert at Christmas, and as I was going busking afterwards, I asked my ISTJ to look after my outfit, ie. ballgown and heels, so I could pick them up later. He agreed, but then didn't raise the subject again. I asked a month later if I could have my stuff back, which I thought was safe, eh, why wouldn't I? Friends look after each others stuff right? And I get bullshit about how out was inappropriate to leave a dress with a man, and how he couldn't bear to have it in his flat, like or was somehow threatening to him, like or implied we were having an affair or something... To cut a long story short, my outfit got thrown out to a charity shop because the stupid man ( who is actually homosexual anyway) couldn't live with it in his flat! So he blamed me for entrusting him with my feminine items... I really don't see his issue. 
The man in question is a church pianist, who has had gay affaires in the past, but is in denial, trying to be the man, always using For Men products, not really aknowledging a feminine side, gosh, it must be agony for him. I told my lovely INFJ man about this and he was shocked at how sometime could be so stupid and self righteous!
Are all you ISTJ men like that? Is out you guys they make "for men" conditioner for, in case Pantene turns you fruity? Do you hate pink? Are you terrified of Bronies? Do you love power tools and military history? Need to understand you aliens!


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## niss (Apr 25, 2010)

Finn_the_Human said:


> Are all you ISTJ men like that? Is out you guys they make "for men" conditioner for, in case Pantene turns you fruity? Do you hate pink? Are you terrified of Bronies? Do you love power tools and military history? Need to understand you aliens!


Of course. What other way is there to be?

Wow. Just wow.


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## mental blockstack (Dec 15, 2011)

Finn_the_Human said:


> the stupid man ( who is actually homosexual anyway) couldn't live with it in his flat! So he blamed me for entrusting him with my feminine items... I really don't see his issue.
> The man in question is a church pianist, who has had gay affaires in the past, but is in denial, trying to be the man, always using For Men products, not really aknowledging a feminine side, gosh, it must be agony for him.


Haha, looks like the issue here is related to internalized fear of his own homosexuality. Maybe that combined with even more ideals about traditional masculinity. That's a dark closet.


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## Roland Khan (May 10, 2009)

Well it's obvious that since one ISTJ is like that, that they must all be like that. Thanks for letting me know about that guy, now I can go around properly judging ISTJ's as macho-pricks. :tongue:

I know you weren't actually trying to judge all ISTJ's as such, I just wanted to be a smartass as usual when there's an implication of stereotyping a certain type of people.

That's really just more of an individual person thing though, not so much *because* he's ISTJ. Plus the military mindset probably didn't help much; not that it has that affect on everybody in the military however, again it affects everybody/everybody reacts differently to the training and lifestyle.

I'd imagine that there are probably people like that of every MBTI type, you just happen to know an ISTJ one.


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## SublimeSerendipity (Dec 30, 2010)

Most male ISTJs stick with traditional gender roles, but that behavior seems very uncharacteristic. Obviously giving away a friend's possessions without asking is uncalled for.

My ISTJ boyfriend is pretty confident in his masculinity. He's even worn my pink North Face backpack when we were out one day because it was heavy and bothering my shoulder. He joked about it, but still did it for me. 

The irony in our relationship is that he is completely hopeless when it comes to putting things together. We went to IKEA to get some bookcases and he did all the heavy lifting/moving (he's also 6'4, 225 lbs), but I actually put the two 7-ft bookcases and desk together by myself (in a matter of about 90 minutes)!! He was actually really turned on by the fact that I was so adept at constructing furniture!!


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## Finn_the_Human (Jan 1, 2013)

BuckeyeENFP said:


> Most male ISTJs stick with traditional gender roles, but that behavior seems very uncharacteristic. Obviously giving away a friend's possessions without asking is uncalled for.
> 
> My ISTJ boyfriend is pretty confident in his masculinity. He's even worn my pink North Face backpack when we were out one day because it was heavy and bothering my shoulder. He joked about it, but still did it for me.
> 
> The irony in our relationship is that he is completely hopeless when it comes to putting things together. We went to IKEA to get some bookcases and he did all the heavy lifting/moving (he's also 6'4, 225 lbs), but I actually put the two 7-ft bookcases and desk together by myself (in a matter of about 90 minutes)!! He was actually really turned on by the fact that I was so adept at constructing furniture!!


I'm very surprised that being an ENFP you can even bare to be in the same room as an ISTJ. Don't you find you have to spell everything out in stupid language before he listens to you?


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## SublimeSerendipity (Dec 30, 2010)

Finn_the_Human said:


> I'm very surprised that being an ENFP you can even bare to be in the same room as an ISTJ. Don't you find you have to spell everything out in stupid language before he listens to you?


Umm, no. WOW.....that's typist.

As far as intelligence goes he's the one with the Mensa IQ.

That doesn't mean we don't have miscommunication, but it is because we are equally at fault no because he doesn't listen to me. Our arguments are short-lived and we are able to talk through our issues quite well.

I personally find the ENFP-ISTJ dynamic to be awesome, and we balance each other out. He loves my bubbliness and I help bring his inner child out. And I love the fact that I get to see this secret side of him and he helps ground me and gives me the ability to actually put my ideas into action.


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## fihe (Aug 30, 2012)

Finn_the_Human said:


> I'm very surprised that being an ENFP you can even bare to be in the same room as an ISTJ. Don't you find you have to spell everything out in stupid language before he listens to you?


I'd like to know what you mean by "stupid language" :\


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## LadyO.W.BernieBro (Sep 4, 2010)




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## Das Brechen (Nov 26, 2011)

The possibility of having to do fem things by having female friends is high. This is exactly why I have little to no female friends. I'm just an isolated incident. I hope.


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## mental blockstack (Dec 15, 2011)

Das Brechen said:


> The possibility of having to do fem things by having female friends is high.


Only without "freedom of choice."


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## Daniel_James_Maher (Feb 11, 2013)

Hello @Finn_the_Human
We like to think of ourselves as computers rather than aliens, but as you please.
Let me first say that since I don't know anything about your situation but what you have written I do not have much understanding of the people you are describing. Your description of them sounds like it has been influenced by your negative experiences with them. Try to forgive them for your own sake, or you will never be free from your own bad memories.
From your description I feel sorry for your parents, they must have had a sad life.
About you Dad: I have been in a military youth organization and I guarantee you I had to wash my own clothes, sew, clean toilets and sometimes do my own cooking. If your Dad suggested it was a woman's job to do this during his time in the military, the only award he would have got is a court martial. My Dad is the sole income earner and is as traditional as anybody (and ISTJ) and he does a lot of housework. Refusal to do housework is nothing but bad behavior, it has nothing to do with SJ. I make no excuses for your Dad; he's wrong, but remember that if he has been in combat he has been through things worse than your worst nightmare. There are two kinds of war veterans; those who talk as if war was fun, and those who say nothing about it. These are both coping methods for dealing with extreme trauma. Some people deal with it well, but many are never quite the same.
About you Mum: without knowing any details I can only say she may well deserve your admiration for putting up with so much for your sake. Why else?
The Pianist: obviously he has got some problems, major ones I suspect. For an ISTJ to betray such a fundamental duty is serious business. You should probably suggest to the church pastor or elder that he may need some professional help. Don't go into any details, that's not appropriate, just make sure someone who is trained to handle these kind of problems knows about it. This guy could be dangerous to himself.
A healthy ISTJ would have returned your clothes neatly packed in a plastic bag or something, and would be mortified if even the slightest harm came to them.
A normal ISTJ will only be as macho as his favourite authorities dictate, this varies obviously, so there is no general answer to your question.
For me, I was once accidentally issued a military dress shirt that was actually for females, there was little difference so I didn't care much when I found out. But I think openly cross dressing is very inappropriate. I have carried handbags (and pink bags) for female relatives and friends many times without hesitation but I return it as soon as they are ready. Just because something says "for men" doesn't make much difference in my mind; "what's in a name?"
I hope this is helpful.


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## Black_Sphinx (Jan 4, 2013)

The aforementioned men are really complicated.... What is the sense of focusing on your own masculinity?
While I am a male ISTJ, I have no issues with most which could be seen as female. Although the reason might be that I have a rather feminine character as a whole.


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## kdr85 (Jun 1, 2013)

This thread is old. I still have my old female roommate's wedding bouquet and a dozen roses in my room. She likes to dry them out upside down. She and her husband got up and moved to New York and didn't have room for the flowers, so I have them. Really adds to the room.haha (I have no idea what looks good. I'm a guy)


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