# Universitizing the nation



## ParetoCaretheStare (Jan 18, 2012)

It seems almost even the simplest of occupations require some kind of degree. It's gotten to the point that going to college in general has become a joke in many aspects. 

I personally am thinking about going into holistic medicine. I'm not looking to become the CEO of anything. I strive for happiness in my life as well as contentment, not success or money. 

What are your values? Do you really think a degree will make a difference in your life? How? What's your image of yourself ten years in the future? Be realistic.


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## JamesA (Jan 25, 2012)

I agree with your outlook on life; to be happy and content. Although I feel to be those 2 things, I need to seek out success. (not money, though) Unfortunately in our society, you need a degree for nearly everything. I think a degree will give me the tools I need to seek out the goals I want to reach in life.

Not only that, but I think the process of getting a degree with help me be happy and content. I'm none of those things right now at high school, but in Uni you have the opportunity of continuous learning and to be surrounded be intellectual and intriguing people.


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## Angelic Gardevoir (Oct 7, 2010)

I think you have the right attitude. I simply want something I enjoy doing and just enough to pay the bills and get a few things. (Like video games. XD) I don't want to be a multimillionaire.


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## ParetoCaretheStare (Jan 18, 2012)

That's very logical, but the outlook people have I believe is of the most important to be in a humble community of people. We should advertise love, not ways to be the most selfishly wealthy( e.g. Forbes top billionaires, etc. ). 

My mother works on the upper east side in Manhattan. She recently had a client (my mom's a hair colorist) who, when found out that my mother finished college in the former USSR and worked as an engineer, completely changed her opinion of my mom in general, and even left her a bigger tip than usual. What?! Talk about judgement...

Let's just say that these are the same people who assume my mom will be the one to flush the one toilet after themselves in the salon bathroom.


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## Azure Bass (Sep 6, 2010)

The field I'd like to go into was created in the last three decades. Since the education is so expensive for what I want to do, I am building on the aspects that go into the field I'd like to do. The cost is time versus a fraction of the tuition. I think it's worth it with how much I'm learning and the quality of what I'm learning in and out of school. 

In my case having a degree would help me tremendously due to my previous arrangements. Originally I spent half of my high school day in a technical institute learning how to troubleshoot computers, earning a lifetime certification for doing so ... only to graduate into a recession and forced to re-evaluate which side of this field I'd like to start in. This choice is the long term process. Along with it I am able to spend the time out side of schooling learning about everything that will support my long term goal as well as to create different opportunities for myself so that I'm not screwed if things fall through.


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## Thorndrop (Jan 6, 2010)

This 'universitising' bothers me. I'm in university now (my first year, actually) and have been extremely dissapointed in some aspects. Since I was quite young, I guess I romanticised the idea of going to university as a place where I can learn about amazing things in an environment where everyone around me is just as eager and curious to learn. I find, however, that it is not the case. A lot of people here seem just to have come because 'it's what you do when you leave school', or they've come more for the social aspect of it. I now live in a shared house and am amazed at what other 'students' are like. Parties happen on any (and sometimes every) night of the week. Sometimes I wake up as they are going to bed. They get drunk as often as possible, and I've seen little evidence of any of them doing any work or reading.

And now to actually answer your questions. Yes, I do feel that a university education is highly important to me personally. I do not think it is needed (or even good) for everyone, however. Academic success is something I place an extremely high importance on for myself, and I would complete a degree solely for fulfillment of that desire. Career-wise, I can only hope to be involved with something in my field of choice (geophysics), possibly research.


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## MattNYNC (Sep 22, 2011)

Thorndrop said:


> This 'universitising' bothers me. I'm in university now (my first year, actually) and have been extremely dissapointed in some aspects. Since I was quite young, I guess I romanticised the idea of going to university as a place where I can learn about amazing things in an environment where everyone around me is just as eager and curious to learn. I find, however, that it is not the case. A lot of people here seem just to have come because 'it's what you do when you leave school', or they've come more for the social aspect of it. I now live in a shared house and am amazed at what other 'students' are like. Parties happen on any (and sometimes every) night of the week. Sometimes I wake up as they are going to bed. They get drunk as often as possible, and I've seen little evidence of any of them doing any work or reading.
> 
> And now to actually answer your questions. Yes, I do feel that a university education is highly important to me personally. I do not think it is needed (or even good) for everyone, however. Academic success is something I place an extremely high importance on for myself, and I would complete a degree solely for fulfillment of that desire. Career-wise, I can only hope to be involved with something in my field of choice (geophysics), possibly research.


In terms of eagerness and curiosity, it depends on where you go to school. Where do you go, if you don't mind me asking..or at least what type of school is it? Public? Private? Liberal Arts? 

Unless you're part of a family business or want to spend most of your life working fast-food or waiting tables, getting a degree at a university is key to moving up the social hierarchy and making money so that you can subsist comfortably.


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## KneeSeekerArrow (Jan 8, 2012)

Education creates differences.


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## ParetoCaretheStare (Jan 18, 2012)

"Subsisting comfortably" is relative to each individual. 

Forms of acquiring education are changing and becoming much less non-traditional. Knowledge gained can be accessed personally if there is a true interest in learning, although many who attend universities are basing their young adult years at the institutions for the American tradition of "going to college" and "having the best four years of my life", only having a couple of classes remembered, and remembering the social life more-so than the educational opportunities, of course depending on how competitive the university is as well, but the question is whether or not this competitive nature of our modern world is beneficial to our livelihood. Maybe it's the values which should be reevaluated, and the fun of learning which should be implemented as a cool function, but also without the inferiority complexes involved, and with a growth of accepting true selves as human beings and their individual interests with leans toward other forms of educational opportunities in the smaller-scale institutions which should be more accepted as well. 
Basically, the media should influence viewers to have a more well-rounded understanding of the options of both college and life without it, and not just through the military, either. People should be able to succeed in life without college as well, and it's getting a lot harder to do that due to contemporary grave economic issues. Advertise love, help, growth without the underlying subliminal messaging of goals to spend and make a profit. 
Educational institutions should be a free way to learn for those who seriously want to be the intellectuals of change in society. Not business sieves. 
And we should find a way of doing this in the society we live in.


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## caramel_choctop (Sep 20, 2010)

Yeah, I agree, but the reality is that without a degree you have less chance of getting a job, even an entry-level one, in the tertiary (services) industry. I'm not exactly hopeful that my BA will revolutionise my career (hell, I know it won't) but I don't know that people have any other choice these days.


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## Thorndrop (Jan 6, 2010)

MattNYNC said:


> In terms of eagerness and curiosity, it depends on where you go to school. Where do you go, if you don't mind me asking..or at least what type of school is it? Public? Private? Liberal Arts?
> 
> Unless you're part of a family business or want to spend most of your life working fast-food or waiting tables, getting a degree at a university is key to moving up the social hierarchy and making money so that you can subsist comfortably.


I'm in the UK, it's quite a different system to the US. I go to the University of Leeds, which is a massive place and it offers lots of majors, though is academic in comparison to Leeds Metropolitan (the more 'vocational' school which my housemates attend). University isn't required for any job, or at least it shouldn't be. Many people would be better off learning a trade, such as plumbing, or taking an apprenticeship in a company.


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## bellisaurius (Jan 18, 2012)

This is a sort of Lake woebegone effect. When 25% of the population has degree, then it becomes easy to go ahead and make degrees a requirement, or at least a filter. I think all your parents thought "give my kid a college education to give him a good chance" becomes "you need a college education" when a lot of people do it.


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## ParetoCaretheStare (Jan 18, 2012)

You always have a choice to live your life the way you want.


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## Angelic Gardevoir (Oct 7, 2010)

ParetoCaretheStare said:


> That's very logical, but the outlook people have I believe is of the most important to be in a humble community of people. We should advertise love, not ways to be the most selfishly wealthy( e.g. Forbes top billionaires, etc. ).


Agreed. While I am going to college to improve my financial position, it's mostly for security, not to one up everyone else. That sort of attitude is destructive. The world would be a much better place if we all loved one another a little more. 



> My mother works on the upper east side in Manhattan. She recently had a client (my mom's a hair colorist) who, when found out that my mother finished college in the former USSR and worked as an engineer, completely changed her opinion of my mom in general, and even left her a bigger tip than usual. What?! Talk about judgement...
> 
> Let's just say that these are the same people who assume my mom will be the one to flush the one toilet after themselves in the salon bathroom.


 First of all, I don't understand how a person can be so full of themselves as to let someone else flush for them. Is that the reason why some people don't flush? 

In a way though, everyone stereotypes. It's inescapable. I wouldn't look at a hair colorist at a salon and think "engineer." I don't think anyone would. However, I find it infuriating that some people will treat someone as if they are lower than them simply because of their job. 



ParetoCaretheStare said:


> "Subsisting comfortably" is relative to each individual.
> 
> Forms of acquiring education are changing and becoming much less non-traditional. Knowledge gained can be accessed personally if there is a true interest in learning, although many who attend universities are basing their young adult years at the institutions for the American tradition of "going to college" and "having the best four years of my life", only having a couple of classes remembered, and remembering the social life more-so than the educational opportunities, of course depending on how competitive the university is as well, but the question is whether or not this competitive nature of our modern world is beneficial to our livelihood. Maybe it's the values which should be reevaluated, and the fun of learning which should be implemented as a cool function, but also without the inferiority complexes involved, and with a growth of accepting true selves as human beings and their individual interests with leans toward other forms of educational opportunities in the smaller-scale institutions which should be more accepted as well.
> Basically, the media should influence viewers to have a more well-rounded understanding of the options of both college and life without it, and not just through the military, either. People should be able to succeed in life without college as well, and it's getting a lot harder to do that due to contemporary grave economic issues. Advertise love, help, growth without the underlying subliminal messaging of goals to spend and make a profit.
> ...


This actually reflects some of my own feelings about college lately. The association I have with grades and intelligence has been driven into me to the point that I have anxiety approaching studying and schoolwork. It can be almost debilitating. I stray away from it as long as I can for fear of getting something wrong...fear of being judged by the system. This competitive attitude of academia has caused me to lost interest in the actual coursework, only learning stuff temporarily so I can pass the test. Now I understand that there must be a way to measure progress and such, but part of me sometimes wishes that it just didn't exist. What I've found to be more enjoyable is simply discussing ideas and asking questions without being judged. Though I don't think many people work that way...


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## JamesA (Jan 25, 2012)

Although I'm still in high school, I've always had the perception that University is somewhere to go to learn amazing new things and meet other curious and intellectual people. High school has shattered my personality and motivation, and I can't wait to get out of this hell hole. Uni better not be like this...


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## Plaxico (Dec 11, 2010)

^University is a lot better. I"m not saying there aren't ups and downs and dull and stressful periods but imo it sure beats the heck out of high school.


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## ersa (Feb 9, 2012)

ParetoCaretheStare said:


> It seems almost even the simplest of occupations require some kind of degree. It's gotten to the point that going to college in general has become a joke in many aspects.
> 
> I personally am thinking about going into holistic medicine. I'm not looking to become the CEO of anything. I strive for happiness in my life as well as contentment, not success or money.
> 
> What are your values? Do you really think a degree will make a difference in your life? How? What's your image of yourself ten years in the future? Be realistic.


Nowadays masters and even PHD don't worth anything. Specialization is the future. Hoslistic medicine is a specialty, you can set up your own office, have your own clients, sounds like a good choice.


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## FillInTheBlank (Dec 24, 2011)

JamesA said:


> Although I'm still in high school, I've always had the perception that University is somewhere to go to learn amazing new things and meet other curious and intellectual people. High school has shattered my personality and motivation, and I can't wait to get out of this hell hole. Uni better not be like this...


I'm in high school right now too and I feel the same exact way. That going to college will give me a chance to really get into learning what I'm interested in learning and that I may find others like me who love learning and want to go there with a purpose in mind and a sense of direction; not because 'that's what they're supposed to do after they graduate HS.' At this point, I'm just..done with high school.


In my opinion, it really bothers me that people are placing such a huge emphasis on going to college after high school. It's what every parent in my well-to-do suburban town wants their kids to do and they just go along with it. College has become little more than an expectation on what were supposed to do in life-that we have the next 4 years mapped out for us after graduation and that other options besides college are worthless. Nobody my age really thinks about going to trade school or doing other things besides going to the typical 4-year college. Which bothers me because college is certainly not for everyone.


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## blit (Dec 17, 2010)

Answers:

Udacity - Educating the 21st Century

Summary of free online courses from Stanford's Coursera, MIT's MITx, and Udacity | Class Central

http://coursera.com

MITx | MIT's online learning initiative



Udacity, the edu startup, is a spin off the AI-Class. I only took this class, and it was a great experience. There's a huge active community here http://www.aiqus.com/ . This _IS_ the future even if it's not for another 5 or 15 years.






And Coursera is another spin off the Data Base and Machine Learning classes.


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## JamesA (Jan 25, 2012)

@FillInTheBlank

Yeah, I'm the same. I don't like it when people do something because "that's what everyone does" or "that's what you're supposed to do". Unfortunately, everyone in High School is like this, and it drives me insane. No one cares, including the teachers.

I think things may be different in the US compared to Australia, as going to Uni isn't incredibly popular. Many people still do trade/apprenticeships. Hopefully the course I do (Law or International Relations) will be full of people passionate about those topics and learning, and not just 'there'.


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## FillInTheBlank (Dec 24, 2011)

JamesA said:


> @FillInTheBlank
> 
> Yeah, I'm the same. I don't like it when people do something because "that's what everyone does" or "that's what you're supposed to do". Unfortunately, everyone in High School is like this, and it drives me insane. No one cares, including the teachers.
> 
> I think things may be different in the US compared to Australia, as going to Uni isn't incredibly popular. Many people still do trade/apprenticeships. Hopefully the course I do (Law or International Relations) will be full of people passionate about those topics and learning, and not just 'there'.


I know. Students should do what they want without the influence of anything else. And the teachers don't care because going to college worked for them so its easy for them to assume that college is the obvious, broad path to success for nearly everyone. 

Wow that's a lot different from here in the US. Do parents in Australia try to make their children go to college or are they lenient and let them do what they want with their future? In the US, I've heard of people that just go to med school/law school or whatever only because thats what their parents want them to do (And I think thats even worse than going to college just to be 'there').


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## JamesA (Jan 25, 2012)

FillInTheBlank said:


> Wow that's a lot different from here in the US. Do parents in Australia try to make their children go to college or are they lenient and let them do what they want with their future? In the US, I've heard of people that just go to med school/law school or whatever only because thats what their parents want them to do (And I think thats even worse than going to college just to be 'there').


I wouldn't really know, as I'm a forward-planning, independent ENTJ and nothing my parents say will influence my tertiary decision. I have heard of some people going to Uni just because that's what you do after school, but parents aren't usually very pushy of this as far as I know. There is a strong growing culture where Chinese and Indians move to Australia, and the parents are very pushy for their children to go to top Universities and become lawyers and doctors. Some Australian parents may be influenced by this into pushing their children to compete with the Indians/Chinese. But then again, I'm not that knowledgeable.


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## wandai (Feb 8, 2011)

Well, in ancient times education is almost an exclusive luxuries. It is followed by 3 education skills (arithmetic, reading and spelling) becoming the norm. Next, almost everybody required to attend primary education. Later, secondary educated citizen is the average citizen. In the future, obtaining a degree is akin to finishing high school in this time period. 

As country develops, the education level will increase. And then the rule of norm will kick in as almost everyone have the opportunity to learn up till that particular education level. A job that didn't require a degree yesteryear will require a degree in the future.


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## dagnytaggart (Jun 6, 2010)

Yeah. Now, not going to college is what being a high school dropout was years back.

By the time I get my MBA, even that will become the expected norm.


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## firedell (Aug 5, 2009)

I think this is why we are having a problem with people finding work. (and the economic crisis of course) Nearly every job expects you to have a degree, or at least a qualification. 

I mean, some jobs require degree's, and I respect that. But some qualifications could be integrated into the job. You learn while you are there. Start at a lowish rank, and work your way up. So that you also have work experience. 

I know this is a problem for companies, as it costs X amount of money. But seriously, I think it will help people get into work much easier than they are now. 

I know that when I apply for a job, I get told that I don't have enough experience in a working environment. And there is a lack of that in university. Someone who is looking to hire someone, will more likely take on someone with a degree, but also with a good amount of experience.

Saying that, I do want to go to university. Partly for the study, and the life experience. I don't drink, so it's not like I will be roaming around the halls at 7am, and then I have a lecture at 9am. So I won't be hungover in the lecture, or still drunk. I want that experience away from everything I know, away from my family and friends. To sort of scare myself, but it also seems exciting.


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## Stelmaria (Sep 30, 2011)

Right. Many employers complain that it is hard to find good workers, but yet the unemployment level is still high. 

The difference is that employers are no longer committed to training their employees in depth due to less loyalty / increased workforce mobility. I guess one of the possible solutions is greater contractual obligations (for better or worse) as well as greater accountability and reform of HR procedures.


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