# Dominance and Submission



## sparkles (Mar 2, 2011)

I will address the topic from the broader sense of dominance and submission, more than the bdsm sense. I find it usually balances out. I might express lots of aggression or assertiveness in some settings, and be naturally (or willfully) submissive in others. Sometimes I might assert my need for someone to make me act submissive (top from the bottom I think it is called). Mostly, though, I make lots of decisions and lead a great deal in many areas of my life, and bring in that forceful action-oriented energy, so it's really comforting and renewing to have at least one area of my life where I can relax and let someone else take over. 

(As an aside, I hear that lots of the submissive men at those places with dominatrixes are high-power alpha sort of people who just get sick of being in charge all the time... and want that release, for balance.)

It's hard to explain, though. I don't think I'm really that submissive, just like to go through the motions of it or something. I tend to be like the OP, very self-controlled, and if I'm around someone who has poor boundaries and I'm in a certain mood I can be very bossy. So I like to feel dominated because I like to feel that I'm not really this all-consuming persona. If that makes sense. I like being "put in my place."

I've been with submissive men before, to mixed results. If they fight me sometimes and if they don't make it easy to push them around, it's totally workable. But if they are 100% submissive to my every whim that can be very boring and yucky and I will feel like I am taking advantage, and probably push them to set boundaries, and it will spiral into even yuckier stuff, so I'm better with a partner who has some backbone whether they are submissive overall or not.


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## Up and Away (Mar 5, 2011)

dilletante said:


> Ok, I'll phrase that differently. What does confidence have to do with dominance, why is there a relationship at all?


I think someone's view of themselves, as confident or insecure, decides their preference tendency. A view of myself as 60% insecure, for example, would result in me being 60% submissive.

This means that I would like to be dominant some times.

Many people are in conscious denial of how they unconsciously view themselves.

So I am talking about the layer of unconscious where someone's denial is, or, if someone has no denial, simply their conscious view of themselves.

This is a small revision from my earlier viewpoint though.


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## sparkles (Mar 2, 2011)

I don't know how I would feel about extending this stuff to an entire relationship. It sounds sexy. I like the notion of having a Taken In Hand relationship (Google it, very hawt). I'd have to feel incredible trust for my partner, though. 

And for some reason in my mind I link outside-the-bedroom dominance with extroversion and outside-the-bedroom submission with introversion, even though that isn't precisely accurate. So as an extroverted person I'm not sure how it would work to be submissive in daily life. How can I submit to someone if I'm much more communicative and have more energy? Seems like it's just practical for the extrovert (who has lots of yang) to leverage it in service of steering the ship. I guess it could still work, though. I've had experiences where I steer the ship but the other person has veto power. (Mixing my metaphors...) 

I'd be open to trying it, and it could be quite fulfilling - but mostly I just want to be ordered around a bit during sex and made to serve my partner. And I want to have moments of control followed by having it taken away from me.


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## Ziwosa (Sep 25, 2010)

Souled In said:


> I think someone's view of themselves, as confident or insecure, decides their preference tendency. A view of myself as 60% insecure, for example, would result in me being 60% submissive.


I do not think this to be true, *at all*.
I'm certainly submissive and according to some (and myself) I'm very if not overconfident.
This is speaking from just my own perspective though.

Submission is more about having a lack(or less) of control and giving full trust to someone else, not about feeling insecure.


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## WolfStar (Aug 18, 2009)

I don't believe people are equal so that works for me. Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses and I act dominant/submissive accordingly. In the bedroom, though, I like both. Keeps things interesting.


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## sparkles (Mar 2, 2011)

Ziwosa said:


> I do not think this to be true, *at all*.
> I'm certainly submissive and according to some (and myself) I'm very if not overconfident.
> This is speaking from just my own perspective though.
> 
> Submission is more about having a lack(or less) of control and giving full trust to someone else, not about being insecure about yourself.


Agreed. 

People who see themselves as confident are sometimes overcompensating for insecurity, and sometimes they seem more dominating because they have a need for control - which can also be due to insecurity. Likewise, sometimes people don't seem confident because our culture confuses confidence with extroversion - and so introverts are sometimes confused as lacking in confidence. It could rather be that they don't need to make a big show. 

It's all not as simple as security=dominance. I also agree with you that submission is more about trusting and relinquishing control.


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## Up and Away (Mar 5, 2011)

Ziwosa said:


> I do not think this to be true, *at all*.
> I'm certainly submissive and according to some (and myself) I'm very if not overconfident.
> This is speaking from just my own perspective though.
> 
> Submission is more about having a lack(or less) of control and giving full trust to someone else, not about feeling insecure.


Submission and dominance relate more to our child roles than our adult one's.

ALL child roles are immature.

Therefore if you aren't insecure about that fact you either

A) don't have values that care about maturity

B) are in denial about those values, probably due to feeling helpless about them (unable to be the person you want to be, always have to distract self with sex and other short term gratifying things)

Which means your unconscious could still be insecure, even if you are consciously secure.

Have a good one

Edit: 

to some degree what I'm saying makes sense, but i have to shift the context a bit for each person for it to fit, so it isn't really a good system, ill be back though to chart it out a bit more


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## dilletante (Apr 13, 2012)

Souled In said:


> Submission and dominance relate more to our child roles than our adult one's.
> 
> ALL child roles are immature.
> 
> ...


This is interesting, I'll have to think about it for awhile.


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## Ziwosa (Sep 25, 2010)

Souled In said:


> Submission and dominance relate more to our child roles than our adult one's.
> 
> ALL child roles are immature.
> 
> ...


Maturity is a broad term, you're making broad assumptions here.

I'm not going to try to convince you that there are people like me who are confident and can enjoy dominance/submission, I'm more curious as to why you think that this can't be true. Why does one have to be insecure on some level to be able enjoy a dominant or submissive role once a while?


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## Skund (Mar 1, 2011)

I live with my girlfriend in a TPE relationship, its all SSC (safe, sane and consensual)
TPE stands for total power exchange, the dom can decide everything for the sub, but don't have to.
He can decide how the sub use the money, how much the sub has, which job she use, what the sub eats and so.
The dom has a great responsibility to make the best decision for both the dom should respect the wishes of the sub and take care of her.

It's not easy to live it everyday, every moment, but i can be a lot of fun.
She has still her own will and that what we both want.


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## Up and Away (Mar 5, 2011)

Ziwosa said:


> Maturity is a broad term, you're making broad assumptions here.
> 
> I'm not going to try to convince you that there are people like me who are confident and can enjoy dominance/submission, I'm more curious as to why you think that this can't be true. Why does one have to be insecure on some level to be able enjoy a dominant or submissive role once a while?


True. Even if I say value maturity, that would depend on someone's personal values, and to the degree that they can not live up to them, is the degree of stress they have.

That stress can be repressed in denial though.

So yes, a repressed submissive could act dominant, I guess we could call this a* "reaction formation."
*
I forgot about those haha, and it relates to this.


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## Ziwosa (Sep 25, 2010)

Souled In said:


> True. Even if I say value maturity, that would depend on someone's personal values, and to the degree that they can not live up to them, is the degree of stress they have.
> 
> That stress can be repressed in denial though.
> 
> ...


So according to you it's not possible for a person who's mentally perfectly healthy to enjoy submission/domination?


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## Up and Away (Mar 5, 2011)

Ziwosa said:


> So according to you it's not possible for a person who's mentally perfectly healthy to enjoy submission/domination?


If you are talking about as a sexual fetish, then to the degree that indulging in fetish is valued is the degree that a mentally healthy (not sure why you used the word perfect) person would enjoy it.

If you are talking about at work, or something, then again it depends on values.


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## mimesis (Apr 10, 2012)

Souled In said:


> If you are talking about as a sexual fetish, then to the degree that indulging in fetish is valued is the degree that a mentally healthy (not sure why you used the word perfect) person would enjoy it.
> 
> If you are talking about at work, or something, then again it depends on values.


Depends on the fetish I think.


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## nottie (Mar 2, 2011)

I've found myself somewhat in the middle. I'm a big believer in the importance of autonomy, so while I don't want to control anyone, I've never allowed anyone to control me. One of the few situations that I can become truly enraged or argumentative is when someone tries to assert their dominance. It becomes my personal mission, in the moment, to prove them wrong or undermine them somehow. Submission also tends to make me uneasy. As I said, I don't want to control anyone besides myself.

So, I seek true equality, however ridiculously idealized that may be.

Obviously, bedroom stuff is different from whomever makes important relationship decisions, but I've always liked to have a back-and-forth in there, too.


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## Skund (Mar 1, 2011)

To be dominant, submissie or switch is no illness.
Their many people who totaly healthy and enjoy BDSM


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## bellisaurius (Jan 18, 2012)

Aristotle talks about this. No relationship between two people is every quite equal. In his description, one party gains the normally considered benefits of an association (material goods, attention, etc..) the other gains honor (they feel good about themselves for their giving). 

I would think the giving and taking in a romantic relationship tends to ebb and flow between the two parties depending on their moods over a period of time. 

Also, when people are dealing with each other in close confines, it becomes neccessary for one party to give way to some extent when conflict arises, in these situations pure equality isn't possible because it's zero sum, something will happen or not.


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## Angelus (Apr 9, 2012)

To be honest, I don't think there are any limits to my submissiveness... :blushed:


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## KINGoftheAMAZONS (Jun 21, 2011)

I refuse to dominate, or submit to anyone. In the bedroom, I like both, and I won't have relations with anyone who doesn't enjoy being both dominant and submissive as well.


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## entpIdeas (Jun 6, 2011)

bellisaurius said:


> Aristotle talks about this. No relationship between two people is every quite equal. In his description, one party gains the normally considered benefits of an association (material goods, attention, etc..) the other gains honor (they feel good about themselves for their giving).
> 
> I would think the giving and taking in a romantic relationship tends to ebb and flow between the two parties depending on their moods over a period of time.
> 
> Also, when people are dealing with each other in close confines, it becomes neccessary for one party to give way to some extent when conflict arises, in these situations pure equality isn't possible because it's zero sum, something will happen or not.



i'd have to say that for me it is situational based on many external and internal variables all subject to a given mood, moment and time. The key is that all derive pleasurable gain. I understand fetishes exist and have no aversion to what works for other individuals if it doesn't impose upon the partner in a negative manner. I personally am free from fetishes, but do tend toward very specific preferences. For me, since no behavior is imperative, it affords me the flexibility to comfortably adapt within almost any relationship.


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## ToxicButterfly (May 25, 2012)

Ziwosa said:


> I do not think this to be true, *at all*.
> I'm certainly submissive and according to some (and myself) I'm very if not overconfident.
> This is speaking from just my own perspective though.
> 
> Submission is more about having a lack(or less) of control and giving full trust to someone else, not about feeling insecure.


Well put. Just because I am a submissive (been an active submissive for about 6 years, although I have felt submissive for longer), does not mean I feel insecure or lack self confidence. I am not saying that there are not submissives that do feel this way. There are very confident and proud submissives as well. 
Your statement about having a lack of control is a bit misleading. Submission is about *GIVING/ALLOWING *another control over the submissive.


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## Mountainshepherd (Feb 23, 2012)

I'm dominant by nature, but I don't believe that being so means I always have to be in control. Wasteful use of control is a disease. Complete control is never possible or wanted, chaotic elements breed growth and adaptation. I believe in dominance akin to how a wise gardener grows their garden: prune, trim, guide, but always understand that plants will grow as they must, and you can kill them to try too hard to control that.

Sexually I'm mostly dominant, I enjoy being seduced but I hate giving up control. I enjoy being sexually dominant for a variety of reasons, the simplest being that I am unable to be aroused if I feel I am being controlled. Just doesn't float my boat.

Having one partner be sexually dominant while the other is more submissive can be a great relief of unnecessary burdens for both parties. The controller is allowed to feel safe in their sexual advances and has the freedom to guide and experiment with a willing partner. The submissive is allowed to enjoy their sexuality in the caring hands of their partner and also experience a more comfortable and permissive sexual environment.


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## MelissaC (May 23, 2012)

Ace Face said:


> I think everyone is naturally inclined to assume one or the other. That's not to say that we can't all be versatile, but I'm pressed to believe that most people have a very specific preference. I'm not just talking about in the bedroom either. I think it's widely acceptable to assume domme/sub roles in the bedroom, but it seems looked down on in real life outside of the bedroom. Even I have a hard time thinking about not being/feeling equal with my partner, but what happens when one partner clearly exhibits more dominant or submissive behaviors? How do you feel about the idea of assuming a dominant or submissive role in the relationship as opposed to being an equal?
> 
> Thoughts?


I really love this post. I'm not sure about a specific preference for me personally. Some days I'm the aggressor, and some days I want to be aggressed. Outside of the bedroom I prefer to appear as a submissive but quietly wield great power. No outward responsibility for outcomes, no spotlights, but subtly in control of the situation. In intense scenarios I can't contain myself and tend to gain overt control, calmly issuing commands and orchestrating a chaotic event so there is some form of order. My job is perfect for these preferences. In lower-acuity/non-coding patients I just quietly do my job (quietly save lives) while the doctors get the glory and praise from the patients. But when shit hits the fan and I step through the doors of the resuscitation room, I step into the role of "primary nurse" (as well call them in our ER) and command the situation. "What do we have for lines? You, get an IO in. Drop some epi down the ET. Stop compressions for a rhythm check. Do we have a pulse? Okay, get back on the chest. Epi's in, prepare a dose of atropine." God I live for that shit. Then when the code's over I walk out and fade back into the background. It works well for me.

As for sex, I prefer to be dominated most of the time. But sometimes a mood strikes and I become a bit of a dominatrix.


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## bromide (Nov 28, 2011)

Control games in the bedroom are fun, I'm the sort of person who gets off from getting my partner off so if they're more dominant, I'll become more submissive and enjoy it just as much if the situation is reversed. Outside of the bedroom, I'll pass on the power struggles. I am a very independent person, really kind of a loner. I don't want to assume control in a relationship, nor do I want to cede it to my partner. I value equitable decision making, shared responsibility, and on the occasions where we want different things, negotiations for compromise. I've found that most people tend towards one end of the spectrum or the other though, which is unfortunate for me. With my tendency towards gentler people, I usually end up with someone who is submissive in day to day interaction which can be frustrating because I end up spending a lot of time being vigilant against bulldozing over their needs and second guessing my decisions because of that. This is still preferable to being with someone who wants to take charge, but only slightly.


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## sparkles (Mar 2, 2011)

bromide said:


> With my tendency towards gentler people, I usually end up with someone who is submissive in day to day interaction which can be frustrating because I end up spending a lot of time being vigilant against bulldozing over their needs and second guessing my decisions because of that.


I relate to this!

I've discovered that if I smell "weakness" in a male, I become especially bulldozy. I test them, a lot. So while I tend to end up with gentle partners, they have strength at their core somehow, because it doesn't get very far if they are total pushovers. I test, and test, and push, and if I feel like I've pushed too much and they haven't set a boundary I end up ending the relationship because I have no respect for them. I prefer partners who are gentle, whom I can also respect.

I'm a very strong woman, with some aggressive tendencies. I can't be with a man I feel is not as strong as I am. I think that's why I test. I need to know he can handle me, and even though I act rather dominant I like some degree of being dominated sometimes. A pushover isn't going to do that for me.


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## mimesis (Apr 10, 2012)

sparkles said:


> I relate to this!
> 
> I've discovered that if I smell "weakness" in a male, I become especially bulldozy. I test them, a lot. So while I tend to end up with gentle partners, they have strength at their core somehow, because it doesn't get very far if they are total pushovers. I test, and test, and push, and if I feel like I've pushed too much and they haven't set a boundary I end up ending the relationship because I have no respect for them. I prefer partners who are gentle, whom I can also respect.
> 
> I'm a very strong woman, with some aggressive tendencies. I can't be with a man I feel is not as strong as I am. I think that's why I test. I need to know he can handle me, and even though I act rather dominant I like some degree of being dominated sometimes. A pushover isn't going to do that for me.


Well yeah, the concept of 'down-dating' can have so many dimensions. =)


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## sparkles (Mar 2, 2011)

mimesis said:


> Well yeah, the concept of 'down-dating' can have so many dimensions. =)


Down-dating????

Oh, just googled. Yeah I don't intentionally date people I perceive as lower status. As I said, if that ends up happening I end the relationship because the dynamic gets unhealthy. 

I'd much rather date someone I see as my equal. In the situations I described where I tried to date a pushover, it was because they pursued me quite intensely, so I tried to give it a shot - and then discovered it wasn't workable.


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## mimesis (Apr 10, 2012)

sparkles said:


> Down-dating????
> 
> Oh, just googled. Yeah I don't intentionally date people I perceive as lower status. As I said, if that ends up happening I end the relationship because the dynamic gets unhealthy.
> 
> I'd much rather date someone I see as my equal. In the situations I described where I tried to date a pushover, it was because they pursued me quite intensely, so I tried to give it a shot - and then discovered it wasn't workable.


Well, I like to see the other as my equal too. Or, I wouldn't mind if she would be taller, (or) smarter, etc. than me, but I am quite aware when I'm 'in the picture' of a woman, and when I'm not. I've dated some women who were taller than me, and in my early 20ies I had a couple of romances with women in their late 30ies, but in general it appears to me, that 'down' means 'unsafe' for women. 

Also, I don't feel the need to 'test' her by pushing over, but often ended up 'second-guessing' her ('is that really what she wants?'), not wanting to bulldozer over her unintentionally.


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## yesterlove (Jun 23, 2012)

Oh, goody. I love this subject. I know this thread is old but I'm going to give my input regardless:
From an intellectual standpoint, I find the psychological motives behind dominance and submission inexplicably fascinating. This likely stems from the fact that I am usually very independent and dominant in most of my relationships, and relate dominance to control. I initially could not fathom why anyone would want to lose control, least of all myself—yet when I engaged in my first actively sexual relationship, I found myself preferring to be submissive! I am a lesbian who generally prefers to dress and act masculine. My partner is the same way, but she has a tendency towards dominance and control in the bedroom.
Her desire made sense to me. My own did not. As an INTJ, I immediately took a step back to analyze the situation objectively. I wanted to know why. I wanted to understand. My own emotions and desires are often an enigma to myself. 
I have concluded that our relationship is, in fact, equal. I would not be happy if it were not so. Equality in all relationships, I believe, is important. In areas where I am lacking, she excels, and the opposite is true (she is an ESFP). I usually dominate our conversations, and she is often very timid, despite her extroverted tendencies. I am the opposite—I’m borderline arrogant, as is typical of my type. But I digress.
Sexual equality is not necessary. Some people, for one reason or another, simply prefer to control and be dominant. It is arousing to that person. Alternatively, losing control, and trusting another person, can be extremely exciting—the adrenaline rush of not knowing what they’re going to do next, the feeling of helplessness…I relish it, personally. But at the same time I was repulsed by my own desire, and if my partner handles the situation wrong (such as being deliberately manipulative), I become cold and unwilling to be vulnerable. I withdraw, and only allow myself to be dominant. 
Submission is about trust, and it is about being vulnerable. Letting someone else take the reigns and take you on a wild ride. 
Dominance is about power. Being in control, the exhilaration of that control. 
Both are appealing to different people. And neither are something to be ashamed of.


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## goodgracesbadinfluence (Feb 28, 2011)

I'm naturally a dominant person and I like to be in control of pretty much everything. But in relationships, I can give up some of that control if there's a logical reason to do so. As long as the guy doesn't try to control my body, my actions, or my finances, I'm good.


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## SenhorFrio (Apr 29, 2010)

dominance and submission in the bedroom is very hot, but it can be problematic outside of that. if it is mild then it would be quite enjoyable, for example maybe one person being more...decisive and persuasive and the otherbeing willing to play along. It can fun to be bossed around sometimes really, our society puts so much emphassis of being independant and tihnking for yourself letting loose and letting someone else have the steering wheel can be nice


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## Brian1 (May 7, 2011)

I would like to be dominated in the bedroom...at certain points, if for any other reason, I have a hard time being vulnerable. I'd be placing trust in the relationship and be able to let go.

So, in submission, I'd be working on things I need to work on anyway.


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

I like to assume the submissive role. But it takes an incredibly strong and intelligent man to get me there. And once he does, I love surrendering it all.


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## Lachesis (Jan 23, 2011)

I don't mind being tied up and spanked.


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## CollaredCass (Nov 28, 2012)

Ace Face said:


> I think everyone is naturally inclined to assume one or the other. That's not to say that we can't all be versatile, but I'm pressed to believe that most people have a very specific preference. I'm not just talking about in the bedroom either. I think it's widely acceptable to assume domme/sub roles in the bedroom, but it seems looked down on in real life outside of the bedroom. Even I have a hard time thinking about not being/feeling equal with my partner, but what happens when one partner clearly exhibits more dominant or submissive behaviors? How do you feel about the idea of assuming a dominant or submissive role in the relationship as opposed to being an equal?
> 
> Thoughts?



I think this is a good subject to be brought up. Many, many people do not understand the dynamics or desires in a Dominant/submissive relationship. I have not read this entire thread, only three pages or so, so what I am going to say may have already been said. I apologize for any repeated comments.

I am a submissive to my Dominant fiance. We have been together for almost ten years. Being submissive to him does not mean that he and I are not equal partners in our relationship. I know, for myself, that if we were not equal, we would not still be in a relationship and I would definitely not be intending to marry him! Submissive does not equal lower level. Outside of our relationship, in work, other friendships, my daily interactions, I am a fully independent, willful, decision making, care-giving, powerful female. I have been since I was around ten years old, due to circumstances in my life. My submission to him is a way of giving up all of that control and responsibility in a way that is safe for me and for those I care for. My mother passed away when I was 23 and I was in the position of having to raise my 13 year old sister and 10 year old brother. Had I given into my submissive side then, we would have all been in trouble. If I chose to be submissive in my working life, I would hate myself, my co-workers, and my bosses. Yet in submitting to him, I have a chance to enjoy being carefree and taken care of and cherished in a way that I have never been able to experience before. I have never completely submitted in any other relationship, because submission is also about trust...trusting someone enough to allow them to make decisions for you or to straighten out a mess you have made...truly knowing that they will do what is best for you without having to worry about being taken advantage of...and knowing that you don't always have to have all the answers, solutions, or responsibility. If anyone ever said to him "you know, I think you and Cass are not equal in your relationship. I think she is lower on the totem pole than you are.", first he would laugh at the absurdity of the comment, then he would get extremely angry on my behalf because someone honestly thought that I was somehow less than him simply because I submit to him in the bedroom and quite often in regular, everyday life.

So, you asked for other thoughts and those are mine. I hope this helps you understand the D/s lifestyle a little better.


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## DMack (Aug 16, 2011)

I'm not really into either. My ex was super submissive which was annoying. I'm fairly agressive and extroverted myself, but I really don't like a woman who just gives into it and turns into the living, breathing equivalent of a blowup doll. Not sure what that all means, maybe I just needed to vent.


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## All in Twilight (Oct 12, 2012)

Being dominant or submissive where power is the main drive or a feeling of humiliation is involved has a lot to do with childhood/parental problems mostly.

I don't mind being somewhat submissive (see below why) as long as I see that the strive for power is not the main drive. For me it is a trust issue. 

Trying to overpower me because it's just for the sake of power, then you're doomed with me. I will let you walk home naked 

I dated a woman and she was pretty dominant and somewhat aggressive not because she wanted to overrule me or control me, but because she was scared of letting go of control herself and being controlled. I think that was her greatest fear so it's nothing more than a defense mechanism actually. So in order for me to make her feel comfortable, I just let her have her way until she feels that it is safe. Then the balance gets automatically restored. In this case, there was never BDSM or anything involved. It was just mental. 
But I believe in equanimity and I don't want to bring childhood issues or any other negative past experience into my sex life.


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