# NT's and Absolute Pitch



## Popinjay (Sep 19, 2011)

I'm curious how many NT's have absolute pitch.

If you are curious, here is a great online survey and test for a university study on the subject from UCSF. I'm not affiliated with them in any way...I just ran across it:

UC Genetics of Absolute Pitch Study - Survey


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## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

I marked absolute pitch because you didn't include an option for "close to" -- and so it's still the closest answer in your survey for me.

I started playing music when very young (I started piano lessons at age 5, but was goofing off with instruments before then), my dad was a band director. I remember when he would just hit a note on the piano and ask me what it was and I'd tell him what it was, usually without thinking much about it. He would show me off to his friends that way. (Trick pony? sigh.) Occasionally I got one wrong by a half-step or so, but usually I was right. I also not only sight-read piano music but I "play by ear," which means I can play along with live music or play a song that I have heard. 

Because I'm not quite perfect with it, I don't call it perfect/absolute pitch. But it's pretty accurate.

I have a few pitches (like B flat, or tuning A) that I always get right. Some pitches I don't use much in my playing, my brain pings off pitches I do know and quickly (in the space of a second) accesses what the pitch I'm hearing is.

I actually have trouble sometimes if I'm handed music in a particular key, but the choir or group is playing the music in a different key and/or is flat/sharp. The latter is particularly maddening, even if the group is internally in tune with itself; I still know it's not right, compared to the actual note frequencies, and it's excruciating for me to listen to or participate it. It also throws off my own playing. My brain has to keep trying to translate the music into whatever pitches the the group is established in, as opposed to playing the actual pitches noted on the page.


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## Paragon (Mar 15, 2011)

I have absolute perfect pitch. I can identify any note and sharps/flats, without looking, without error.

It's really annoying; I go listen to the CSO or any orchestra and when they make a mistake, I start to cringe. High school and college orchestras were a total pain to listen to.


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## Popinjay (Sep 19, 2011)

Jennywocky said:


> I marked absolute pitch because you didn't include an option for "close to" -- and so it's still the closest answer in your survey for me.
> 
> I started playing music when very young, my dad was a band director. I remember when he would just hit a note on the piano and ask me what it was and I'd tell him what it was, usually without thinking much about it. Occasionally I got one wrong by a half-step or so, but usually I was right now. I also not only sight-read piano music but I "play by ear," which means I can play along with live music or play a song that I have heard.
> 
> Because I'm not quite perfect with it, I don't call it perfect/absolute pitch. But it's pretty accurate.


Wow, this is my story...apart from being good at sight-reading. I know theory very well (took all undergrad courses for it), but I'm definitely not the greatest sight-reader. My mom taught me basic piano music at the age of 5 or 6 and then I sat down at the piano at the age of 7 or 8 and played the entire melody from a song from our church's Christmas musical and that was when I discovered I could play by ear and by ear-memory. I prefer playing by ear because it's easy to play very beautiful, very moving music that you create yourself...not locked into someone else's creativity. I can play a church chorus and make it my own. I can usually sit down and play the melody of a song I've heard (at least 2 or 3 times) without making a mistake, as well as figure out the correct chord structure almost as quickly (unless there's some crazy Neopolitan chord or flat-6 that throws me off initially).



Jennywocky said:


> I have a few pitches (like B flat) that I always get right, or the tuning A. Some pitches I don't use much in my playing, my brain pings off pitches I do known and quickly (in the space of a second) accesses what the pitch I'm hearing is.


I sometimes confuse G and Gb. I used to play the same game with my friend where he'd play keys on the piano and I'd guess them (he thought it was entertaining) and if I got one wrong, it was most often G or Gb (usually getting them backwards)...which is really bizarre.



Jennywocky said:


> I actually have trouble sometimes if I'm handed music in a particular key, but the choir or group is playing the music in a different key and/or is flat/sharp. The latter is particularly maddening, even if the group is internally in tune with itself; I still know it's not right, compared to the actual note frequencies, and it's excruciating for me to listen to or participate it. It also throws of my own playing. My brain has to keep trying to translate into whatever pitches the the group is established in, from what it is on the page.


You're probably more absolute than I am. I can't handle them singing in a different key when I play along (unless I ditch the music), but I'm not super-sensitive if they're like 1/8 tone off. 1/4 tone would definitely bother me.


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## Popinjay (Sep 19, 2011)

Does it drive you two crazy when the radio station turns the pitch wheel 1/4 tone (to speed up the song/make it end faster)?

Or do you ever get music stuck in your head and it's like you're hearing it playing verbatim from CD/MP3 in your brain?


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## Paragon (Mar 15, 2011)

Popinjay said:


> Does it drive you two crazy when the radio station turns the pitch wheel 1/4 tone (to speed up the song/make it end faster)?


Absolutely. That's why I don't listen to the radio. Not only is 99% of the music absolute garbage, but they do weird shit with the pitch wheel.



> Or do you ever get music stuck in your head and it's like you're hearing it playing verbatim from CD/MP3 in your brain?


Right now Symphony of Science- We're all Connected is stuck in my head right now.




All of the subtle nuances, different instruments, voice inflections, lyrics, rhythm, meter, tempo, intonation, dynamics, etc. are all whirring through my head. It's like a professional symphony playing in the room I'm in right now, except not quite physically.


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## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

Popinjay said:


> Wow, this is my story...apart from being good at sight-reading. I know theory very well (took all undergrad courses for it), but I'm definitely not the greatest sight-reader. My mom taught me basic piano music at the age of 5 or 6 and then I sat down at the piano at the age of 7 or 8 and played the entire melody from a song from our church's Christmas musical and that was when I discovered I could play by ear and by ear-memory. I prefer playing by ear because it's easy to play very beautiful, very moving music that you create yourself...not locked into someone else's creativity. I can play a church chorus and make it my own. I can usually sit down and play the melody of a song I've heard (at least 2 or 3 times) without making a mistake, as well as figure out the correct chord structure almost as quickly (unless there's some crazy Neopolitan chord or flat-6 that throws me off initially).


Yeah, I took two semesters in college for music theory and didn't study and aced it all + extra credit. 

I started clarinet in fourth grade and quickly became bored. While other kids were still struggling with the notes, I was having more fun making up things to play, or playing songs I knew, by ear. I'm sure some of them thought I was cool and others thought I was pretentious. I was the only woodwind in middle school who the "cool brass players" who played fun songs at the football games would let play along, because I'd make up a bunch of parts to add to the songs on the fly, even if I never heard the song before.

I totally agree with your "playing by ear" comments. I started out trying to conform by playing what was on the page, and I've been fortunate to be a great reader (not just with music, but I'm a fast reader with text too -- symbol/interpretation and nuance are pretty easy for me), but soon enough I ended up just wanting to play. I've played for many weddings and worship services, either doing new spins on popular songs that people still found appealing, or just making up "mood music." I coped with a lot of sadness and depression as a teen by literally going into a room, turning off all the lights, sitting at the piano, and just making up things to reflect what I was feeling.

If you're anything like me, it's just an amazing powerful experience to be able to let yourself feel something and then have it reflected back in the sound. I couldn't articulate or process feelings well, consciously, but I could do it through music.



> I sometimes confuse G and Gb. I used to play the same game with my friend where he'd play keys on the piano and I'd guess them (he thought it was entertaining) and if I got one wrong, it was most often G or Gb (usually getting them backwards)...which is really bizarre.


Heh. I'm fine with G. I tend to get a little sloppy with the less-used accidentals unless I start playing again, and quickly my brain sharpens up.



> You're probably more absolute than I am. I can't handle them singing in a different key when I play along (unless I ditch the music), but I'm not super-sensitive if they're like 1/8 tone off. 1/4 tone would definitely bother me.


uggh. 1/8 is worse than 1/4, to be honest. It's ALMOST there... but nooooot.... quiiiiiitee... ! (I get stuck in a contorted wince and my shoulders hunch up past my ears, it's horrible.)


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## Paragon (Mar 15, 2011)

Damn, you all sound like music majors :shocked:

I started playing viola freshman year of high school with this tiny 13' instrument and stopped senior year because I couldn't afford a bigger instrument for college (I grew a lot within those 4 years and needed a 17').


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## cranberryplains (Aug 1, 2011)

Yes. In most situations its quite annoying. For example, I always dread it when my family eats spaghetti, because they ALWAYS scratch their forks against their plates sooner or later.


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## Popinjay (Sep 19, 2011)

Paragon said:


> Right now Symphony of Science- We're all Connected is stuck in my head right now.
> All of the subtle nuances, different instruments, voice inflections, lyrics, rhythm, meter, tempo, intonation, dynamics, etc. are all whirring through my head. It's like a professional symphony playing in the room I'm in right now, except not quite physically.


Sounds like you have it worse than me. I don't think my musical memory can keep track of a whole symphony, although I can hear stuff at the level of the Nutcracker in my head verbatim.



Paragon said:


> Damn, you all sound like music majors :shocked:


I took all courses for a B.A. in Music except 6 (or 8?) semesters of performing groups. I changed my major to business simply because I was terrified of performing...and I'm really not the greatest performer. My musicianship is probably average at best, although I have solid understanding of theory and can play what I hear. I'm strongest solo, or playing in a worship band at a church.



Paragon said:


> I started playing viola freshman year of high school with this tiny 13' instrument and stopped senior year because I couldn't afford a bigger instrument for college (I grew a lot within those 4 years and needed a 17').


I bought a violin but I've never had time to screw around with it You've got to be able to easily discern 1/8 tones to play it and I don't think I can...not on the fly, anyway. Was it fairly easy for you to stay in tune? It sounds like you have a very discerning ear.


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## Popinjay (Sep 19, 2011)

Jennywocky said:


> I coped with a lot of sadness and depression as a teen by literally going into a room, turning off all the lights, sitting at the piano, and just making up things to reflect what I was feeling.


Wow, yes yes. I did I.T. for my church as a teenager (had the keys), so very frequently I would sit in the sanctuary in pitch black at midnight (or later) with the grand lid fully propped and the music rack removed...I'd feel like I was one with the piano. I'd sit in severe depression and play worship choruses and get completely lost in it for hours...until my back hurt. Then sometimes I would purposefully play hymns or choruses in aeolian, harmonic, melodic, or even dorian or phrygian, somberly and sleepily. I love screwing up beautiful songs with dark and dreary-sounding modes when I'm depressed, or taking overly cheery/happy songs and making them beautifully dark.



Jennywocky said:


> If you're anything like me, it's just an amazing powerful experience to be able to let yourself feel something and then have it reflected back in the sound. I couldn't articulate or process feelings well, consciously, but I could do it through music.


Music is the only outlet for my Fi. I can write my emotions on paper but it's flat, where the music is a powerful amplifier for them. The times when people have complimented me the most on the beauty of my playing have been when I was the most depressed.



Jennywocky said:


> Heh. I'm fine with G. I tend to get a little sloppy with the less-used accidentals unless I start playing again, and quickly my brain sharpens up.
> 
> uggh. 1/8 is worse than 1/4, to be honest. It's ALMOST there... but nooooot.... quiiiiiitee... ! (I get stuck in a contorted wince and my shoulders hunch up past my ears, it's horrible.)


You guys have more discerning ears than I do. I can tolerate 1/8...sometimes I don't even notice it. That must drive you insane. 1/4 tone off drives me crazy, so I can only imagine 1/8, considering most average musicians waver that much in the course of a song.


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## nevermore (Oct 1, 2010)

I can play by ear very well...don't know if I have absolute pitch though.


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## Paragon (Mar 15, 2011)

nevermore said:


> I can play by ear very well...don't know if I have absolute pitch though.


Go up to a piano and have someone else (who knows what they're doing) press a key at random and tell them what note it is. If you have perfect pitch, then you will instantaneously be able to identify the note correctly.


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## absentminded (Dec 3, 2010)

...now I'm wishing I voted wolverine...


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## Popinjay (Sep 19, 2011)

absentminded said:


> ...now I'm wishing I voted wolverine...


Ron Paul lost the previous poll (Personality Incest) to Iron Man by a mere two votes (7/9). I'm hoping he beats Wolverine in this one.


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## DeductiveReasoner (Feb 25, 2011)

...wow.

You people make me look pathetic. haha
I can read music in concert C, play flute and some piano, and identify a few notes by pitch. 

Please excuse me as I go now to eat humble pie.


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## absentminded (Dec 3, 2010)

Popinjay said:


> Ron Paul lost the previous poll (Personality Incest) to Iron Man by a mere two votes (7/9). I'm hoping he beats Wolverine in this one.


Try putting him against Aquaman. He'll win fo sho then.


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## Popinjay (Sep 19, 2011)

absentminded said:


> Try putting him against Aquaman. He'll win fo sho then.


Maybe...although I'm pretty sure some of the INTJs are purposely picking the other candidate to screw with me.


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## absentminded (Dec 3, 2010)

Popinjay said:


> Maybe...although I'm pretty sure some of the INTJs are purposely picking the other candidate to screw with me.


Hmm...

"Paris Hilton or Ron Paul?

On the one hand, I mess with Popinjay's mind. On the other hand, I loose my NT dignity."


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## Popinjay (Sep 19, 2011)

absentminded said:


> Hmm...
> 
> "Paris Hilton or Ron Paul?
> 
> On the one hand, I mess with Popinjay's mind. On the other hand, I loose my NT dignity."


Ron Paul and Twilight Sparkle...he wouldn't get a single vote.


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## luemb (Dec 21, 2010)

Adesi said:


> This is like me. I haven't tried playing in the dark though. I'll have to now!


 Just don't play something like Rach 3 really loud and wake your neighbour!  Nocturnes would be appropriate


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## Adesi (Aug 9, 2011)

listentothemountains said:


> Just don't play something like Rach 3 really loud and wake your neighbour!  Nocturnes would be appropriate


 I'll probably do The Coin Song from FF6 because I know it well.


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## Popinjay (Sep 19, 2011)

Adesi said:


> Wow. I'm surprised at how many NTs have perfect pitch. @_Popinjay_ I was the only real vote in your SJ poll btw.
> 
> I don't have perfect pitch, but have pretty decent relative pitch and can usually play melody (but not chords) by ear, depending on the complexity.
> I tried a test. I hummed what I thought would be middle C. When I came downstairs to play it on piano, it turned out I was humming the B right below middle C. Much closer than I would have thought!
> ...


Thanks for voting. Yeah, that thread was total fail. I expected it to fail...but I expected at least 5 votes.

I wouldn't put too much stock in the data for this poll, however. NT's protest polls they don't like by voting to foul the statistics. It's in the NT handbook. I put more stock in the individual accounts in the thread itself...several of which describe absolute pitch.

Sometimes things can foul you up. I hummed F# earlier this evening and walked over to a piano and was correct. But F#/G are the two notes I sometimes get confused in my brain-ear. You might confuse B/C. You should try the survey test if you need 15 minutes of amusement.

I don't read music quickly, either.


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## Adesi (Aug 9, 2011)

I clicked on the survey link before, but I think it wanted me to fill stuff out, and I couldn't be bothered at the time.

I'm curious if any of you guys that can play well by ear have ever had a chance to play with a theremin. I think they're amazing, but I can imagine they'd be incredibly difficult to play.


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## Popinjay (Sep 19, 2011)

Adesi said:


> I clicked on the survey link before, but I think it wanted me to fill stuff out, and I couldn't be bothered at the time.
> 
> I'm curious if any of you guys that can play well by ear have ever had a chance to play with a theremin. I think they're amazing, but I can imagine they'd be incredibly difficult to play.


I've never heard of them...*looks up*...interesting, now I want to buy one.


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