# Another Incel Thread



## SummerBreasts (Jul 28, 2020)

From what I've seen, Incels blame their involuntary celibacy on appearance and status. The problem, they claim, is caused by a number of things, including: an ugly face, an overweight body, small writs, a short stature, poor income, and the list goes on. But surely that cannot be the whole picture.

I'll just consider myself for a moment. I'm short, chubby, have a fucked up thumb and do not have status, yet sex is very easy to obtain. So easy, in fact, that it's boring outside a relationship. The same is true of a my mates. None of us are alphas, or physically attractive, yet none of us have trouble getting laid.

When I look at those famous mass murderers that killed because of their celibacy, I see perfectly ordinary looking men. None of them are particularly ugly. So it can't be their looks. Further, there are plenty of women out there that are just looking for a "good time", so status has very little to do with it either. This leads me to believe it has more to do with personality and standards.

Maybe these men are wanting supermodels instead of your average plain Jane. I do know that men do prefer better looking women. Also maybe their personalities are crap. Maybe they act like boys, are sexist AF, and expect women to fit their definition of a "lady".

Maybe I'm missing something here. Before you say "they suffer from crippling anxiety", so do I. I have really really bad social anxiety. It gets so bad I need alcohol to calm my nerves. But again, that's never stopped me. So what is it? What are your thoughts?


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## Handsome Dyke (Oct 4, 2012)

Maybe you're mixing up incels and people who are simply involuntarily celibate. Incels are an known for being entitled misogynists in addition to being involuntarily celibate. That's part of the meaning of the word "incel."


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

They aren’t just average guys though (like what you liken yourself). They are disgruntled guys who exude that. Women can sense it in how they speak, and carry themselves. They usually repel women when they speak.


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## ENFPathetic (Apr 3, 2018)

I've only met one self proclaimed incel in person. His problem was a lack of self awareness. He alienated the friendliest of women and didn't even know he was doing it.

Also. I think some guys don't understand that you have to be really attractive, rich or funny to get away with having shit manners.


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## AnneM (May 29, 2019)

Sensational said:


> They aren’t just average guys though (like what you liken yourself). They are disgruntled guys who exude that. Women can sense it in how they speak, and carry themselves. They usually repel women when they speak.


Yes all women but me apparently


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## AnneM (May 29, 2019)

SummerBreasts said:


> From what I've seen, Incels blame their involuntary celibacy on appearance and status. The problem, they claim, is caused by a number of things, including: an ugly face, an overweight body, small writs, a short stature, poor income, and the list goes on. But surely that cannot be the whole picture.
> 
> I'll just consider myself for a moment. I'm short, chubby, have a fucked up thumb and do not have status, yet sex is very easy to obtain. So easy, in fact, that it's boring outside a relationship. The same is true of a my mates. None of us are alphas, or physically attractive, yet none of us have trouble getting laid.
> 
> ...


Well I am a super model, ok, and 2 years ago I threw myself with all my might at the king of the incels. I so would've run away to Washington to spoon feed him kefir. 

But for some weird reason he preferred complaining about being an incel to me???????


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## AnneM (May 29, 2019)

ENFPathetic said:


> I've only met one self proclaimed incel in person. His problem was a lack of self awareness. He alienated the friendliest of women and didn't even know he was doing it.
> 
> Also. I think some guys don't understand that you have to be really attractive, rich or funny to get away with having shit manners.


I hope you're talking about me. The friendliest of women, yes, thank you!!!!!


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## ENFPathetic (Apr 3, 2018)

AnneM said:


> I hope you're talking about me. The friendliest of women, yes, thank you!!!!!


I was talking about a Turkish woman who worked near my apartment complex. Very nice, very friendly, excellent conversationalist.

You seem pretty friendly as well.


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## AnneM (May 29, 2019)

ENFPathetic said:


> I was talking about a Turkish woman who worked near my apartment complex. Very nice, very friendly, excellent conversationalist.
> 
> You seem pretty friendly as well.


OK, alright but, we both know you're lying. Everything is about me.


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## ENFPathetic (Apr 3, 2018)

AnneM said:


> OK, alright but, we both know you're lying. Everything is about me.


She's not even the main character.


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## SummerBreasts (Jul 28, 2020)

AnneM said:


> Well I am a super model, ok, and 2 years ago I threw myself with all my might at the king of the incels. I so would've run away to Washington to spoon feed him kefir.
> 
> But for some weird reason he preferred complaining about being an incel to me???????


Oh goodness, tell me more.


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## AnneM (May 29, 2019)

SummerBreasts said:


> Oh goodness, tell me more.


I have been warned NOT TO YELL ABOUT PEOPLES PERSONAL BUSINESS EVEN PEOPLE WHO KIND OF CONTRIBUTED TO THE TRAINWRECK THAT HAS BECOME MY LIFE I CANT YELL ABOUT THEZE PEOPLE IN PUBLIC BC THEY MIGHT BE PRIVATE AND SENSIT8VE PEOPLE HAHAHAHA YEAH YOU COULD SAY THAT SO FROM NOW ON I WILL NOT YELL ABOUT STELLiFEROUS OR DESPOTIC OCELOT OK


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## CountZero (Sep 28, 2012)

For me the problems 'getting sex' are multitudinous. For one, rejection is such an intensely painful experience for me that I will willingly forego a possible, but still uncertain, opportunity. For another, the thought of being labeled, or even thought of, as some kind of pervert is a very powerful deterrent. To compound the problem, I have a nearly phobic reaction to even the _possibility_ of sex. Finally I can't stomach the idea of casual sex. It has to be with someone I know and have at least a moderate level of trust with, and also needs to be part of an ongoing relationship.

So several elements have to fall in place for me to 'get some'. The woman has to make the first move and be glaringly obvious about it. She also has to be willing to put up with my skittishness around the whole subject, to be in a long term relationship and to also suffer through a 'waiting period' while I get to know and trust her.

So with all those preconditions, it's no wonder I'm in the middle of a long dry spell...


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## recycled_lube_oil (Sep 30, 2021)

Firstly I would like to add, I am only making assumptions here based on interactions I have had on Reddit with Incels and Blackpillers.



SummerBreasts said:


> From what I've seen, Incels blame their involuntary celibacy on appearance and status. The problem, they claim, is caused by a number of things, including: an ugly face, an overweight body, small writs, a short stature, poor income, and the list goes on. But surely that cannot be the whole picture.


I don't think it is the whole picture. But they have such a distorted view of the world, that in their minds it has become absolute truth. So this will come across in any interactions they have. Anyone who experiences differently, is an ancedotal outsider. The "Studies" they use, back this up, so they believe the study... end of story as far as they are concerned. 

Also since the push for "equality", incels seem to view lack of getting laid as a massive social injustice. They believe women should be approaching, taking men on dates, etc. Due to this belief, they have no reason to believe they should put in any effort themselves, aka be a "Dancing Monkey".



> I'll just consider myself for a moment. I'm short, chubby, have a fucked up thumb and do not have status, yet sex is very easy to obtain. So easy, in fact, that it's boring outside a relationship. The same is true of a my mates. None of us are alphas, or physically attractive, yet none of us have trouble getting laid.


Do you leave the basement. I know it sounds like I am stereotyping, but from my interactions on Reddit what I gathered was anime and videogames were life. Having to interact with women outside of Tinder was classed as being a "dancing monkey". Unless you just send a message saying "fuck me" and they come over, you are a dancing monkey. Not saying that is true for all of them, but that is the impression I got.



> When I look at those famous mass murderers that killed because of their celibacy, I see perfectly ordinary looking men. None of them are particularly ugly. So it can't be their looks. Further, there are plenty of women out there that are just looking for a "good time", so status has very little to do with it either. This leads me to believe it has more to do with personality and standards.


If you look at Elliot Rodger's maninfesto, he approaches one girl only and gets rejected. He was not putting himself out there. He was more interested in the incel community and his maninfesto than changing his life. 



> Maybe these men are wanting supermodels instead of your average plain Jane. I do know that men do prefer better looking women. Also maybe their personalities are crap. Maybe they act like boys, are sexist AF, and expect women to fit their definition of a "lady".


That is also the impression I got.



> Maybe I'm missing something here. Before you say "they suffer from crippling anxiety", so do I. I have really really bad social anxiety. It gets so bad I need alcohol to calm my nerves. But again, that's never stopped me. So what is it? What are your thoughts?


You are doing something and accepting responsibility for your crippling anxiety. Instead of pointing the finger and blaming women. That is the difference.


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## DOGSOUP (Jan 29, 2016)

CountZero said:


> For me the problems 'getting sex' are multitudinous. For one, rejection is such an intensely painful experience for me that I will willingly forego a possible, but still uncertain, opportunity. For another, the thought of being labeled, or even thought of, as some kind of pervert is a very powerful deterrent. To compound the problem, I have a nearly phobic reaction to even the _possibility_ of sex. Finally I can't stomach the idea of casual sex. It has to be with someone I know and have at least a moderate level of trust with, and also needs to be part of an ongoing relationship.
> 
> So several elements have to fall in place for me to 'get some'. The woman has to make the first move and be glaringly obvious about it. She also has to be willing to put up with my skittishness around the whole subject, to be in a long term relationship and to also suffer through a 'waiting period' while I get to know and trust her.
> 
> So with all those preconditions, it's no wonder I'm in the middle of a long dry spell...


kinda off topic but I felt the same way about trying to date women at first, then realized that a lot of the women I dated felt similarly for various reasons
(which is why I find it interesting the term was originally coined by a bisexual (?) woman)


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## Eren Jaegerbomb (Nov 13, 2015)

Edit: Nevermind. Already been discussed.


Well remember the video of that psycho guy Elliot Rodger?

He wasn't fat, or ugly, or short or whatever. Yet he claimed women didn't date him.

He killed a bunch of people.

Yeah, not all incels but maybe some of these people are not your average joe, they could have serious mental issues. Like others are saying.


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## Eren Jaegerbomb (Nov 13, 2015)

AnneM said:


> Well I am a super model, ok, and 2 years ago I threw myself with all my might at the king of the incels. I so would've run away to Washington to spoon feed him kefir.
> 
> But for some weird reason he preferred complaining about being an incel to me???????


Maybe you weren't the super model woman he wanted.
I'm not saying you aren't, I'm saying his type might have been something else.

Well he can't say nobody's been interested in him.


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## AnneM (May 29, 2019)

Eren Jaegerbomb said:


> Maybe you weren't the super model woman he wanted.
> I'm not saying you aren't, I'm saying his type might have been something else.
> 
> Well he can't say nobody's been interested in him.


It's really true....there was some chick who ghosted him and she WAS waaaaaay hotter than me, true story. He got in a fight with his grandma about her and the police were called. 😆 yeah I couldn't compete with dat.


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## AnneM (May 29, 2019)

CountZero said:


> For me the problems 'getting sex' are multitudinous. For one, rejection is such an intensely painful experience for me that I will willingly forego a possible, but still uncertain, opportunity. For another, the thought of being labeled, or even thought of, as some kind of pervert is a very powerful deterrent. To compound the problem, I have a nearly phobic reaction to even the _possibility_ of sex. Finally I can't stomach the idea of casual sex. It has to be with someone I know and have at least a moderate level of trust with, and also needs to be part of an ongoing relationship.
> 
> So several elements have to fall in place for me to 'get some'. The woman has to make the first move and be glaringly obvious about it. She also has to be willing to put up with my skittishness around the whole subject, to be in a long term relationship and to also suffer through a 'waiting period' while I get to know and trust her.
> 
> So with all those preconditions, it's no wonder I'm in the middle of a long dry spell...


Man, how do you INFPs even survive in this world??????


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## JimT (May 31, 2010)

SummerBreasts said:


> From what I've seen, Incels blame their involuntary celibacy on appearance and status. The problem, they claim, is caused by a number of things, including: an ugly face, an overweight body, small writs, a short stature, poor income, and the list goes on. But surely that cannot be the whole picture.
> 
> I'll just consider myself for a moment. I'm short, chubby, have a fucked up thumb and do not have status, yet sex is very easy to obtain. So easy, in fact, that it's boring outside a relationship. The same is true of a my mates. None of us are alphas, or physically attractive, yet none of us have trouble getting laid.
> 
> ...


I always got the sense that the incel crowd includes a lot of guys with Asperger's (or just generally on the autism spectrum). Hence their fixation on narrow issues like sex and gender, and the sense of grumpiness/entitlement among incels.

Kind of like Greta Thunberg (who also has Asperger's) fixating and raging for years about how people who ignore climate change have stolen her childhood from her. Except that bitching about climate change is more PC than bitching about lack of sex. 

A video by Dr. Grande associates incels with autism (among other issues) at 9:45 in this video: 




As such, I tend to pity incels more than anything. Obviously there are _some_ kind of psychological issues there. And there's nothing one can really do for people on the autism spectrum.

Usually incels are not a big social concern; they keep to themselves for the most part. It's just that their sites do tend to lean toward heavy misogyny (they put the burden for change on society since they are unable to do anything about their own psychological issues), and the woke crowd simply can't forgive that. And then once in a blue moon a self-declared incel goes off the deep end and commits a violent act, providing justification for a lot of press articles on the dangers of incel-dom.

But most times they seem to be all bark and no bite. IOW, mainly to be pitied, in my opinion. And what can you do about it, anyway? Forbid people with psychological issues from congregating on the internet?

In a way, the core of the problem is the democratization of the internet. What do you do when the incurable psychological cases want to congregate and gripe about their problems?


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

Miaristan said:


> Thanks you for your post!
> 
> While what happens with incels is certainly unfortunate, there is certainly a form of tunnel vision in how they view injustices. They complain about not getting laid, but they should understand that women have been abused and victimized during a lot of countless decades and centuries.
> 
> ...


I've never met any feminists who have said incels are "pure evil" but I have read plenty of people online who complain about feminists, so it will have to go into the bucket of complaints.

Shooting up a yoga studio, a night club, or a public because you hate women does make you pretty deplorable though, to most people. So I can see why incels have gotten a bad reputation...probably with most popular culture, though I am sure feminists already saw problems with their subculture even before they began going on shooting rampages.

I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting a trad wife and wanting to just sit around on your ass and have nothing to offer a trad wife. But the reality is that you probably will not get one.

At least even with the stereotype of the old, ugly, terrible feminist women who end up with a thousand cats, they aren't deluding themselves into believing that they're entitled to whatever masculine fantasy they dream up (if they even have one)--they don't go shooting up gyms and things because they hate men. So it's not really comparable.

And hating on terrorists is kind of normal--one doesn't need to be a feminist to do that. It's quite normal for non-feminists to also hate terrorists.

I found the speech by AOC to be sort of compelling--as she is a feminist and a progressive, but I don't think the sentiment she espouses here is that acceptable in more aggressive online progressive groups, and certainly the right hates her more than anyone. It's probably a societal issue that society will need to face and deal with, rather than feminists being expected to clean up the mess these incel men are making. So I can see how her speech is a bit naive sounding, and she certainly shouldn't be expected to deal with all this stupid shit all the while getting tons of hate from the right and from sexists.






You can't expect women, who are being subjected to the violence, anger, and blame from groups of angry sexists and racists to fix it with love or whatever, but I still admire her.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

Everytime I watch that speech it makes me cry.


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## Hexigoon (Mar 12, 2018)

SummerBreasts said:


> I'll just consider myself for a moment. I'm short, chubby, have a fucked up thumb and do not have status, yet sex is very easy to obtain. So easy, in fact, that it's boring outside a relationship. The same is true of a my mates. None of us are alphas, or physically attractive, yet none of us have trouble getting laid.
> 
> ----
> 
> Before you say "they suffer from crippling anxiety", so do I. I have really really bad social anxiety. It gets so bad I need alcohol to calm my nerves. But again, that's never stopped me. So what is it? What are your thoughts?


I don't understand, how are these two things possible?
Your social anxiety can't be particularly crippling if casual sex is easy.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

Hexigoon said:


> I don't understand, how are these two things possible?
> Your social anxiety can't be particularly crippling if casual sex is easy.


Have you ever heard of alcohol? lol


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## Hexigoon (Mar 12, 2018)

WickerDeer said:


> Have you ever heard of alcohol? lol


What about it? If you have crippling social anxiety you're probably drinking alone, not going to bars and whatever.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

Hexigoon said:


> What about it? If you have crippling social anxiety you're probably drinking alone, not going to bars and whatever.


True. This sounds familiar.

I do think people can work on social anxiety though--I think it's more responsive to cognitive behavioral therapy and probably pharma treatment (?) than some other disorders. 

I guess it depends on how severe it is, but I can imagine someone with social anxiety going to a bar or a party and being able to have sex, if that's what they really want. Or hooking up with someone for sex...I mean, there are also lots of prostitutes, but I think maybe that's considered not the same to incels.


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## Flabarac Brupip (May 9, 2020)

I don't particularly like this thread because it basically puts all the blame on me for being a 43 year old virgin, as if its really just that simple. I don't even exactly know how I ended up a 43 year old virgin. It just kinda happened with a whole array of lots of different factors contributing to it, and somehow here I am. But I'm not an incel! I don't hate women or feel entitled to sex, and I'm open to the possibility of never having sex, just like I'm open to the possibility of having sex. But my joy in life is not dependent on whether I ever have sex.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

I really don't think most people view virgins as incels. I know I don't--but it is too bad when other groups of people get stigmatized for the choices of some members of radical groups. 

I guess the same could be said for Islamic terrorists, who then people excuse their terrorist behavior or claim it's due to Islam (just contributing to Islamophobia), or other types of terrorists who people sometimes start to give whatever group the terrorist hides behind (being white male KKK, being Muslim, Christian abortion bombers, belonging to a nationality or whatever) a bad name, when it's really got less to do with whatever group the terrorists hide behind and more to do with the individuals inciting violence and hatred.


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## Squirt (Jun 2, 2017)

SummerBreasts said:


> I'm short, chubby, have a fucked up thumb and do not have status, yet sex is very easy to obtain. So easy, in fact, that it's boring outside a relationship. The same is true of a my mates. None of us are alphas, or physically attractive, yet none of us have trouble getting laid.





SummerBreasts said:


> But again, that's never stopped me.


Good for you?



Ock said:


> I don't particularly like this thread because it basically puts all the blame on me for being a 43 year old virgin, as if its really just that simple. I don't even exactly know how I ended up a 43 year old virgin. It just kinda happened with a whole array of lots of different factors contributing to it, and somehow here I am.


This sentiment is reasonable, imo. It sounds like OP is saying if you're not getting laid, it must be your fault because _he _figured out how to get laid. It shouldn't even be a matter of this sort of over-generalized fault or blame based on personal experience. That's really no better than an "incel" claiming that all women are bitches because of their personal experience not getting laid.

Each person's situation and specific interactions (which could change over the course of things) should be considered on its own merit.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

If you can't bother caring about the other gender at all, beyond just getting your dick wet, you suck regardless of your sexual experience. It has nothing to do with whether you're a virgin or sexually experienced.

I think this is most people's issues with incels--I really don't think most people are/were upset at them because of their sexual experience. Maybe now the chauvinists and pickup artists feel more empowered to put down incels, because they are unpopular in pop culture--it doesn't actually make them any better than them, just because they've had sexual experience. The feminists have been right the whole time, but it's funny that feminism is just as big or worse of a slur than incel is online, and yet feminists haven't done anything close (unless being fat and having dyed red hair and complaining is the same as shooting up a yoga studio--guess it could be if your values are that shallow). But whatever, I'm just complaining and should stop. No amount of complaining about this can alleviate the actual fucked-upness of so much of the world, and there's no point, because it just opens you up to being targeted by said shitty groups online, especially if you're female. Which is an actual real issue that people can't bother giving a fuck about because well...some dumbfuck didn't get his femoid sandwich making blowup doll, which is of course a worse problem than you know...actual violence.


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## Flabarac Brupip (May 9, 2020)

Squirt said:


> It sounds like OP is saying if you're not getting laid, it must be your fault because _he _figured out how to get laid.


Exactly! I've been kinda holding back from name calling or some shit like that because it actually pisses me off believe it or not.


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## Squirt (Jun 2, 2017)

Ock said:


> Exactly! I've been kinda holding back from name calling or some shit like that because it actually pisses me off believe it or not.


Yes, I could tell you were being very polite, lol. I'm surprised more people aren't calling it out, honestly.


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## SummerBreasts (Jul 28, 2020)

Ock said:


> Exactly! I've been kinda holding back from name calling or some shit like that because it actually pisses me off believe it or not.


Mate call me out if you want. I'm sure I can handle.


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## SummerBreasts (Jul 28, 2020)

Hexigoon said:


> What about it? If you have crippling social anxiety you're probably drinking alone, not going to bars and whatever.


Yeah I drink alone before going out. Or I just won't talk until I'm a little intoxicated or my pills kick in. Which ever comes first.


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## Hexigoon (Mar 12, 2018)

WickerDeer said:


> True. This sounds familiar.
> 
> I do think people can work on social anxiety though--I think it's more responsive to cognitive behavioral therapy and probably pharma treatment (?) than some other disorders.
> 
> I guess it depends on how severe it is, but I can imagine someone with social anxiety going to a bar or a party and being able to have sex, if that's what they really want. Or hooking up with someone for sex...I mean, there are also lots of prostitutes, but I think maybe that's considered not the same to incels.


Sure, but the severity is what I'm getting at, not whether someone with social anxiety can theoretically go into a bar or have sex. Sure they can, maybe alcohol helps a bit, but if it's crippling anxiety, I don't see how it's ever going to be easy to go through the social process of getting to sex.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

Ock said:


> Exactly! I've been kinda holding back from name calling or some shit like that because it actually pisses me off believe it or not.





Squirt said:


> Yes, I could tell you were being very polite, lol. I'm surprised more people aren't calling it out, honestly.


Not that I want to speak for OP or really get into this, but I'll just say that from my perspective I never would have thought of Ock as someone who "can't get laid." So while I respect people are virgins and people's sexual choices, I don't think like "oh gosh there's no way that person could ever not be a virgin."

And I think that's the issue with some of the incel mentality--the reality is that most of them really could have sex. But that the community itself just keeps feeding itself these ridiculous narratives about their jaw size or their skull size or how women are all evil gold diggers. So they never actually listen to anyone.

But I will just say it didn't cross my mind to defend someone who's a virgin, because I don't believe that they actually have no control over it. I wouldn't have ever thought that about Ock either because tbh I don't see any reason why I would believe that.

I haven't had sex for over a decade and I consider myself involuntary in some ways, but if we're being honest it is a choice. I don't buy the narrative that these incel men really cannot get laid--they just tell each other that and themselves, and then they don't do anything about it. I get the frustration--I really do, but it's just not true most of the time.

Also sorry not trying to make this about Ock--but I think it's been obvious just reading his posts that it is a choice, just like it's a choice for me or other people who are celibate. (and who are not incels even if celibacy isn't the funnest thing in the world)


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## Squirt (Jun 2, 2017)

WickerDeer said:


> Not that I want to speak for OP or really get into this, but I'll just say that from my perspective I never would have thought of Ock as someone who "can't get laid." So while I respect people are virgins and people's sexual choices, I don't think like "oh gosh there's no way that person could ever not be a virgin."
> 
> And I think that's the issue with some of the incel mentality--the reality is that most of them really could have sex. But that the community itself just keeps feeding itself these ridiculous narratives about their jaw size or their skull size or how women are all evil gold diggers. So they never actually listen to anyone.
> 
> ...


I don't mean to say folks don't have any control over whether or not they have sex.

Just that the "If I can do it, why can't you?" argument (not just about incels but about most things) is pretty annoying. Some people find that type of message motivational, but it just shows a lack of consideration which fuels guilt and shame, to me.

Yet, I know you're not focused on that because the way women are treated by incels is upsetting and @SummerBreasts is supporting the outrage, in his own way. So, it's not to negate the grievances of how toxic incel communities can be, either. I'm mostly sympathizing with Ock because these messages about the connection between one's worthiness/likability and getting laid are just so constant and create the potential for a doublebind, even in this particular criticism of incels.


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## Flabarac Brupip (May 9, 2020)

WickerDeer said:


> Not that I want to speak for OP or really get into this, but I'll just say that from my perspective I never would have thought of Ock as someone who "can't get laid." So while I respect people are virgins and people's sexual choices, I don't think like "oh gosh there's no way that person could ever not be a virgin."
> 
> And I think that's the issue with some of the incel mentality--the reality is that most of them really could have sex. But that the community itself just keeps feeding itself these ridiculous narratives about their jaw size or their skull size or how women are all evil gold diggers. So they never actually listen to anyone.
> 
> ...


Its a choice, but it also isn't. Ideally I'd like to have a gf who's a good fit for me, and yes, sex included. But frankly the vast majority of women are incompatible with me, and I'd rather be a single virgin than be with even one wrong woman, and that's why I don't put a torch under my ass to hit on random women.


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## DOGSOUP (Jan 29, 2016)

WickerDeer said:


> What's the marxist concept of alienation? Or are you joking (b/c I don't know anything about it so it's going over my head completely).


Joking in the sense that I didn't expect anyone to look it up for real but basically the way I understand the concept (and please note I am no Wellsy) it could be used to discuss various types of alienation from the production under capitalism so for instance why we'd feel our jobs are shitty and pointless mechanical actions, that we are not truly working for ourselves, or why kids think milk comes from the carton because most of us dont have direct connection to how most things we'd need to fill our daily needs are produced because the production happens in different spaces at different times that have connection to one another from farming to logistics to sales...

or we have no human connection to other people because despite increased automation (which could have enabled us more free time) we now have more jobs with less hours to make ends meat. There was also a german term which I think has something to do with our ability to be "human". So aside from alienation from the production it could be alienation from other people or shared class too. (but the need exists, ergo, "gamers rise up")

(Personally it alienates me from my ability to spend most of my days fishing. i genuinely thought of becoming a commercial fisher but it just would not be the same as I am sure you would understand.)

Maybe it could be alienation from the environment too (how many engage directly with natural elements anymore? + environmental impacts of production leading to degradation)...


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

Ock said:


> Its a choice, but it also isn't. Ideally I'd like to have a gf who's a good fit for me, and yes, sex included. But frankly the vast majority of women are incompatible with me, and I'd rather be a single virgin than be with even one wrong woman, and that's why I don't put a torch under my ass to hit on random women.


Same. That's why I just get annoyed by the incel thing though--because dating sort of sucks for a lot of us, but the answer isn't to just hate an entire gender and turn to violence.

But yeah, I completely relate to you. It's so annoying too, when people assume the reason why you're celibate is because you think you're better than others, when really it's just a matter of not being compatible. Though I guess that's probably more how it's portrayed with gender--like if you're a woman you are being a prude and think you're better than every guy, and if you're a man you just couldn't possibly have sex. It's ridiculous...people are individuals and don't all want the same thing. 

But yeah, that's why I'd never have associated you with incel even though you've said you are a virgin. Because the term has come to describe a subculture which has a specific ideology--not just celibate people (like me or you).


----------



## Grandmaster Yoda (Jan 18, 2014)

WickerDeer said:


> I think I probably still have internalized misogyny a little--though I also think I have a mother complex--the most problematic relationship I had was with a step mother.
> 
> I found the misogyny easier to remove or at least question, when I realized how similar some of my beliefs were to old fashioned sexists. And it bothered me to think I could be so foolish, since I'm a woman and so I know women are people. I just was critical of gender roles and how women were socialized (including myself). But I began to read through the old timey sexism to get a sense of how incredibly idiotic most of it is.
> 
> ...


I’ve done some non-consensual things to others and then non-consensual things were done to me. But mostly to others. They weren’t really sex though.

Sexual surrogate sounds like a safe way to have sex as a 40 year old virgin.


----------



## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

@Grandmaster Yoda 

Everyone has done things they regret, but everyone is also capable of changing their behavior should they choose to, which imo is one of the more important things in life since most of us also learn from making mistakes.

Sex should always be consensual, and ideally so would anything else be.

I usually reserve force for self-defense or defense of others, rather than for getting what I want at the expense of someone else. I think it is a good rule of thumb to treat others as they would like to be treated (and as you would like to be treated). This would probably make the world a better place.


----------



## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

I didn't realize that there was an "incel wiki" but Vincent Van Gogh was probably sort of like an incel but fortunately without the influence of the incel community.

But I think his life is tragic--he could have benefitted from a sex therapist or a therapist in general, probably.

deleted the article b/c it's from an incel site and I don't want to promote the toxic rhetoric.






He lost his virginity to a prostitute. He also seemed to view prostitutes as human, which shows a different value from dominant culture (which would be to disrespect prostitutes and scapegoat them by projecting all one's own flaws and issues onto them). I still think it would have been better if he had been able to get help he needed though, because I think maybe his depression did end up overshadowing him and perhaps causing his death.


----------



## NIHM (Mar 24, 2014)

Miaristan said:


> Thanks you for your post!
> 
> While what happens with incels is certainly unfortunate, there is certainly a form of tunnel vision in how they view injustices. They complain about not getting laid, but they should understand that women have been abused and victimized during a lot of countless decades and centuries.
> 
> ...


See, you don't come off as an incel at all to me. Right now I'm a sad panda that you even compared our group to one of them. You're just so caring.

I'm not saying never because if we look at mathematics and science there might be one psycho to prove me wrong and in science, we never say 100% but almost every autistic or high functioning person I've been in contact with has really kind hearts and I know it's almost like nails down a chalkboard for me to lie and I know it's not a complete requirement for autism but most of us have the same issues for being distrustful. When people get upset at us for being miss obvious, maybe being a know-it-all, or stating a fact we've observed that we're not upset over because we think it's fact. Like I'm an outlier in the data I'm high functioning that actually is ok with hugs. I like hugs, especially compression hugs. I've been bubbly and friendly my whole life. I have no problem talking to others, however, I do need my downtime. My talking could be almost a tic a compulsive need to tell someone something they didn't want to know or talk about. I always feel so apologetic when that realization, that this person was making small talk with me and I've since thrown up a huge novel on them in return. It happens a lot. ENFPs are already described as eccentric, imagine an autistic one.

Like that's why I'm sad. Though being an ENFP, I will always get my FI card out if I feel a group is being pulled down.

I can do this, let me do it the way I would need it done to me. And if you're an INTP, this is going to be an uphill battle but I'm going to be stubborn, my Te jawbone is set. If this doesn't work be prepared for another way to communicate....

I understand this is the way you think currently. I won't say feel because it's more of a thinking process and maybe a little bit of Ti popping in. I can say something and people are like don't say that. That's not true but you look at them and go here's the data set, it's soooo true. Like I can say I don't fit with a lot of people. True data point, full stop. I'm awkward and come off really weird. True data point, full stop. I also don't force it like I used to try in my 20s, because through growth the people I gain friendships with I stick like glue to them and they like me in return. Those relationships are gold to me. I don't need everyone to like me, just the right one. I'm not void and empty of relationships. True data point. I was in my thirties when I finally got married. All data points are still true statements today. It has not changed but that doesn't = no friends, no love. I understand (outsiders) they seem to be upset that you think this about yourself and maybe you are wrong. So you reexamine the data. I'm hoping I'm making you rethink the data set. On a bell curve, the data set does not describe autistic males like what wiki had about incels. Unless I do not understand the criteria for an Incel. I do admit I just learned about it today but it still doesn't fit. Make that data point fit because I won't believe it.

This is following Betty White's death. My Fi shard is in full swing.


----------



## mimesis (Apr 10, 2012)

Re: Dr. Grande (who associates incels with autism)

Quote from Quora:

_"Dr. Grande is not a Licensed Psychologist, not a Licensed Psychiatrist, and not a Licensed Medical doctor. Dr. Grande received his Ph.D. in Philosophy, and not in medicine. Dr. Grande is Licensed by the state of Delaware as a Mental Health Counselor . Licensed Mental Health Counselors do not have the same scope of practice as a Licensed Psychologist, a Licensed Psychiatrist, or a Licensed Medical doctor. Licensed Mental Health Counselors have their own Licensing Regulation Board which is separate from the Licensed Psychology Board. Dr. Grande posts sensationalized videos on his YouTube channel that often gives diagnosis to people which is acting outside his scope of practice, in my opinion. In April of 2019, a Journalist wrote a news article entitled something like, “Armchair Psychologists Who Ticked Off Youbube,” where Dr. Grande is mentioned as being one of the armchair psychologists that gossips."_








What do psychopaths, sociopaths, and ASPD think of Dr Todd Grande (YouTube)?


Answer (1 of 21): His psychology videos seem accurate, though it’s as boring as watching old people fuck. He often fouls his propeller when he ventures into morals, ethics, and law. He stated in a recent video that Will Smith hitting Chris Rock on stage at the Oscars ceremony should have no more ...




www.quora.com





What is a Mental Health Counselor:








What Does A Mental Health Counselor Do?


On the large menu of mental health services, you’ll find an alphabet soup of licensed professionals—including licensed mental health counselors or L.M.H.C.s. Could one be right for you? Learn everything you need to know about mental health counselors, including how they differ from other experts, av




www.forbes.com


----------



## NIHM (Mar 24, 2014)

Ock said:


> Why does their have to be a sub and dom involved? Can't you just have 2 human beings of neutral standing that enjoy each other's bodies?


See I knew someone was going to take my words out of context. I said switch on switch, that can happen and is probably the majority of the bell curve. I'm just saying if you have two shy people together. It might not happen. It's not a full-blown conclusion that it won't but on a bell curve, things have to align better for it to happen. There was one shy INFP, I tried for, and because we were both shy it ended up in let's just be friends. Neither one of us asked each other out, later on, found out he actually liked me, I was like why didn't you ask me out? He thought I was going to ask him out lols. Let's put it this way I'm a shy female, I'm talkative about theory but shy about feelings. I will not approach a male first. I don't know if it's nerves I just don't feel comfortable. I can't nearly say it's fear, it doesn't feel like fear (more over-analyzing) but just the fact that I'm oblivious to someone liking me. If you beat around the bush with me (my specific personality) then you're not going to get very far. I'm just going to smile back and nod and think he's a great person, we should be friends.

Take male number two, my brother-in-law. He's passive. Every girl he's ever dated is more aggressive and he works well with those females. He has to have females ask HIM out. One person told me that's a shame, he should be a man and I'm like why is that a shame? That's the way he is, he doesn't need to change to be "the man." Because of our society's built structure, he might find fewer dates and further apart because he's not asking females. Apparently (this is sarcasm and I'm horrible at it) men need to ask first. Which is bullshit. My best friend gets worried every now and then that she should be more ladylike and less aggressive who is the current one married to him. Which is bullshit. She should be allowed to be herself. There's nothing wrong with a more assertive female and I wish society would stop trying to force them to be modest and labeling. She's a very loving wife, and she's good with him. They have a very healthy relationship.

I'm just saying in my experience in reviewing hundreds of relationships a dynamic needs to happen for it to be good. I've seen two doms go at it, and it was like watching an explosion all the time. They eventually ended it three years later because they both wanted to be the controller but interesting dynamic. I've seen it a lot. Then I've seen very healthy relationships between switches. People that are much centered and can switch between dom and sub.

You might find something wrong with me because I'm an outlier, I'm a sub but I work better in a relationship that takes the reigns. I'm not saying an abusive and unhealthy relationship calling all the shots but for some reason, in my case, the male has to ask and even make me aware of it. I've noticed this is a pattern for a lot of subs. I don't find anything wrong with a male being a sub. To each their own. YOLO.

Edit: I'm not talking extremes of severe abusive relationships by either male or female. But please do recognize that some of the population has sexual tendencies, wants, and needs.


----------



## Flabarac Brupip (May 9, 2020)

Ock said:


> Umm, no. I'm pretty sure most aren't psychotic. I have a psychosis. Just because "psychotic" and "psychopathic" have "psycho" in them doesn't mean they're the same damn thing. Like major DUH!


I may have come off as a bit snarky. But imo I have that right, considering he equated serial killers with psychosis, when I have a psychosis, and its not even true anyways.


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## NIHM (Mar 24, 2014)

Ock said:


> Exactly! I've been kinda holding back from name calling or some shit like that because it actually pisses me off believe it or not.


Ohh you and me both. My Fi card is fully activated, that fi-te bitch slap is being held back. Don't worry I'm trying to throw down the best I can to defend our honor. 

It may seem like this.










But I want to do this.






Because seriously that's how he came off to me in his post. So arrogant and incel.

People may think we're bunnies but they will need a holy hand grenade when you activate that bitch slap.


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## NIHM (Mar 24, 2014)

CountZero said:


> I think what she means is one of the two participants may have to take the lead, rather than some kind of BDSM thing. But I could be wrong too…
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No, you were correct with your assumption. Thank you for explaining it. Mine was more lengthy. I don't mean in it BDSM, either. Though I am an individual who thinks it's not for me but if someone enjoys it and they're not being hurt by it, let them do what they want to do. Before I get any BDSM advocates against me.


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## JimT (May 31, 2010)

NIHM said:


> This one gave me an interesting sensation, to say the least, brief anger was one, brief disgusted among other things, and then just pitty follows. Then seeing how many people I respect on this forum actually like your post, was the actual slap in the face. Wow. I'm fine with the high-functioning remark. I made one myself in the curiosity of another person's friend comment, directed towards that one male. I agree with it and even thought the same thing, that "this male" he described as an incel could be high functioning we have an interesting way we interact with society. But everything that followed puts you in the category of speech repellant and wouldn't touch you with a 100-foot pole.
> 
> From your description apparently, we fixate and rage for years, bitching about climate change. I would say other large groups are raging about climate change, not just Greta Thunberg. I tend to pity people who seem to make fun of an entire group of disabled people for their enjoyment. Must make you feel so strong and that there's nothing wrong with you? You're so perfect, right?
> 
> ...


My main point was that Asperger's is likely over-represented in the incel community. And I backed it up with a video clip from a licensed psychologist who said exactly the same thing.

Also I never said that the incel community is representative of the Autism Spectrum Disorder community as a whole. The incel community is likely under-socialized and has more-than-usual difficulty fitting in. And their worst tendencies are likely reinforced by the incel echo chambers. So the incel community stands apart from the rest of the ASD community.

Other than that, my point is to show some sympathy for incels, rather than just dismiss them all as terrorists and monsters. To the extent that they might have legitimate psychological issues, those psychological issues should be taken into account.


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## 497882 (Nov 6, 2017)

Ock said:


> Umm, no. I'm pretty sure most aren't psychotic. I have a psychosis. Just because "psychotic" and "psychopathic" have "psycho" in them doesn't mean they're the same damn thing. Like major DUH!


You realize many of these people were diagnosed with various disorders right? Be it antisocial, psychopaths, narcissist, schizophrenic. They were not well in the head and how they saw reality and justified what they were doing was very bizarre. You should try learning about some of these people before you start assuming they were messed up people just because they were horny and desperate. A lot of these cases are much darker. Also some of these people got a lot of tail. Look at Manson. He created a cult of followers he was having sex with.


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## 497882 (Nov 6, 2017)

NIHM said:


> THANK YOU, I was about to make the same point, like holy shit. Ted Bundy was not autistic by a long shot. Man, he could butter you up so good, he had an entire town willing to testify to how wonderful his character was. On the other hand, he could probably have put the blame on someone like me and been like they're the evil person, sack her she didn't say hello properly and might bring up the Douglas pouch in conversations.
> 
> Edit:
> I also had someone tell me one day because of my scores, that I'm like a bubbly version of Ted Kaczynski (and I don't kill people) because of how fast my brain worked and I was currently reading his manifesto for a paper in college. This person was pretty popular from what I could tell and a lot of females thought he was the best-looking male. He then went on to sit down and annoy me by trying to say so you're a weird girl, how weird are you? You're so pretty shame you're just so weird blah blah blah. The conversation made me highly uncomfortable. The only thing I could think of as I looked up at his over the display of trying to show me how he was a handsome male and how I was graced by his mere presence, going on about what I would do if the CIA got a hold of me. I could only say coldly to him from all the comebacks I could desperately come up with that "Ted Kaczynski, had paranoid schizophrenia." This man tried to degrade me and call me the loser as he tried to force a kiss on me, which he was not successful. I may not have social ques but I feel sometimes I have more manners than others. The only understanding that I have about this type of males, is it's about control.


Dear you should have broken his noise. It would have been much more deserved than your apperent restraint.


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## Flabarac Brupip (May 9, 2020)

MisterDexter said:


> You realize many of these people were diagnosed with various disorders right? Be it antisocial, psychopaths, narcissist, schizophrenic. They were not well in the head and how they saw reality and justified what they were doing was very bizarre. You should try learning about some of these people before you start assuming they were messed up people just because they were horny and desperate. A lot of these cases are much darker. Also some of these people got a lot of tail. Look at Manson. He created a cult of followers he was having sex with.


I'm talking about serial killers, and whether or not they're _psychotic_ . Most of them aren't, so you're spreading misinformation about something that directly affects me. I mean okay, we have maybe a few exceptions like maybe Charles Manson, who might've been _both_ psychopathic and psychotic. But that generally isn't the rule like you made it out to be. Btw, there may be a number of psychotic people that commit horrendous crimes, but psychotic people are more likely to be victims, I've heard twice as likely to be victims than neurotypicals, but I'm not sure about exact numbers.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

Ock said:


> but I'm not sure about exact numbers.


I'm not sure about numbers either--but I read that people with severe mental illness are more likely to be victims of violence or other crimes (including sexual violence). 

But the only good thing is that people who are regularly taking medications have a lower risk of being victimized. 

I suspect homelessness is also a serious influence on the rate of victimization in US.



> • In Washington, D.C., 44 women with a serious mental illness (75 percent diagnosed with schizophrenia or bipolar disorder) who were “episodically homeless” were interviewed regarding physical and sexual assault during the periods of homelessness. Of the 44 women, “30% reported at least one incident of physical assault and 34% reported at least one sexual assault while homeless.” Of the sexual assaults, 57 percent reported that it occurred on the street, and 55 percent reported that the perpetrators were strangers. The authors conclude that “for episodically homeless women with serious mental illness, the lifetime risk for violent victimization is so high that rape and physical battery are normative experiences.”
> 
> • In New York, 949 homeless men were interviewed regarding having been assaulted or injured. Twelve percent of the men were psychotic, and this group was significantly more likely than the nonpsychotic men to have been robbed, beaten, threatened with a weapon, or injured (concussion or limb fractures).
> 
> ...


----------



## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

edit: nevermind--I just can't even. The fact that people in the US think having universal healthcare would make us communists. It's sad and I'm over complaining about it.


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## 497882 (Nov 6, 2017)

[/QUOTE]
Ock


Ock said:


> I'm talking about serial killers, and whether or not they're _psychotic_ . Most of them aren't, so you're spreading misinformation about something that directly affects me. I mean okay, we have maybe a few exceptions like maybe Charles Manson, who might've been _both_ psychopathic and psychotic. But that generally isn't the rule like you made it out to be. Btw, there may be a number of psychotic people that commit horrendous crimes, but psychotic people are more likely to be victims, I've heard twice as likely to be victims than neurotypicals, but I'm not sure about exact numbers.


Most of them are yes. That is what I just explained. Also why would you assume a person who premeditated multiple murders is a healthy minded individual? I mean perhaps one premeditated in cases like a person being held hostage or something like that. The fact you think these are all healthy individuals is a little scary. Wearing peoples skin, raping and killing your victims, eating pieces of them and you are going to say that's well minded?


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## Grandmaster Yoda (Jan 18, 2014)

MisterDexter said:


> Ock
> Most of them are yes. That is what I just explained. Also why would you assume a person who premeditated multiple murders is a healthy minded individual? I mean perhaps one premeditated in cases like a person being held hostage or something like that. The fact you think these are all healthy individuals is a little scary. Wearing peoples skin, raping and killing your victims, eating pieces of them and you are going to say that's well minded?


Because the word psychotic means a person suffering from psychosis.

But colloquially it means “crazy or mentally ill” in general.

Should still say most mentally ill people likely suffer from violence and not the other way around. But serial killers are probably “crazy” and could have psychopathy and sociopathy and so on.


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## Grandmaster Yoda (Jan 18, 2014)

WickerDeer said:


> @Grandmaster Yoda
> 
> Everyone has done things they regret, but everyone is also capable of changing their behavior should they choose to, which imo is one of the more important things in life since most of us also learn from making mistakes.
> 
> ...


Be careful some people want to be attacked, the golden rule is surpassed by the platinum rule.

The incel wiki you mentioned said that people with ASD can be uncles and they have a special word for it.

They blame neurotypicals for not understanding.


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## Flabarac Brupip (May 9, 2020)

Ock
Most of them are yes. That is what I just explained. Also why would you assume a person who premeditated multiple murders is a healthy minded individual? I mean perhaps one premeditated in cases like a person being held hostage or something like that. The fact you think these are all healthy individuals is a little scary. Wearing peoples skin, raping and killing your victims, eating pieces of them and you are going to say that's well minded?
[/QUOTE]

Holy shit did you assume a lot, without really understanding what I'm saying. I agree! Those serial killers are horrendous and unhealthy. But let me clue you in on the fact that _psychosis_ is a clinical term for a specific type of mental disorder. So another words it doesn't include _every_ fucked up individual with a mental disorder, it only includes us people that are "fucked up" from a _psychosis_ .

If you still don't get it, I give up!

@MisterDexter


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## 497882 (Nov 6, 2017)

Ock said:


> Ock
> Most of them are yes. That is what I just explained. Also why would you assume a person who premeditated multiple murders is a healthy minded individual? I mean perhaps one premeditated in cases like a person being held hostage or something like that. The fact you think these are all healthy individuals is a little scary. Wearing peoples skin, raping and killing your victims, eating pieces of them and you are going to say that's well minded?


Holy shit did you assume a lot, without really understanding what I'm saying. I agree! Those serial killers are horrendous and unhealthy. But let me clue you in on the fact that _psychosis_ is a clinical term for a specific type of mental disorder. So another words it doesn't include _every_ fucked up individual with a mental disorder, it only includes us people that are "fucked up" from a _psychosis_ .

If you still don't get it, I give up!

@MisterDexter
[/QUOTE]
Actually you are wrong. Psychotic features can be noted in more than one mental disorder. Which most of the famously noted killers have. Like believing they are a God, that they are stopping a plot by killing people. Pretending this had anything to do with being horny is ridiculous and you know it.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

Grandmaster Yoda said:


> Be careful some people want to be attacked, the golden rule is surpassed by the platinum rule.
> 
> The incel wiki you mentioned said that people with ASD can be uncles and they have a special word for it.
> 
> They blame neurotypicals for not understanding.


Yeah that website seems pretty unhealthy. I saw the article, and then realized a lot of it is incel language. I don't really know how wikipedia works or what the various wikis are. I almost deleted the link, but then figured that it seems a lot of people don't know what incel is or they think it just means virginal people. Maybe I should just delete it though.


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## Flabarac Brupip (May 9, 2020)

MisterDexter said:


> Holy shit did you assume a lot, without really understanding what I'm saying. I agree! Those serial killers are horrendous and unhealthy. But let me clue you in on the fact that _psychosis_ is a clinical term for a specific type of mental disorder. So another words it doesn't include _every_ fucked up individual with a mental disorder, it only includes us people that are "fucked up" from a _psychosis_ .
> 
> If you still don't get it, I give up!
> 
> @MisterDexter


Actually you are wrong. Psychotic features can be noted in more than one mental disorder.
[/QUOTE]

What does this even have to do with clinically _psychotic_ people? Psychotic _features_ ?



MisterDexter said:


> @MisterDexter


Pretending this had anything to do with being horny is ridiculous and you know it.
[/QUOTE]

Wtf are you even talking about? I honestly don't know. I wasn't even concerned with whatever ^^ _THIS_ ^^ is.

@MisterDexter


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## Flabarac Brupip (May 9, 2020)

@MisterDexter Okay, so anyways, show me evidence, a link, something to show me that most serial killers are clinically psychotic, because I already _know_ you won't find it, unless of course its from a really sketch media source. 

As far as your "horny" shit, I still have no idea what you're talking about.


----------



## JimT (May 31, 2010)

Ock said:


> I don't particularly like this thread because it basically puts all the blame on me for being a 43 year old virgin, as if its really just that simple. I don't even exactly know how I ended up a 43 year old virgin. It just kinda happened with a whole array of lots of different factors contributing to it, and somehow here I am. But I'm not an incel! I don't hate women or feel entitled to sex, and I'm open to the possibility of never having sex, just like I'm open to the possibility of having sex. But my joy in life is not dependent on whether I ever have sex.


Simply being a virgin doesn't automatically make you toxic or a misogynist.

For example, there are lots of people in the world who have given up on dating because they are too old or too fat or too ugly or too broke or whatever. What with the constant rejection and all, they simply can't be bothered. And they are fine with it. Lots of people are fine living alone, and lack of sex doesn't make them toxic and misogynistic.

The toxicity only arises when loners join on-line incel communities and buy into the "blackpill philosophy" there. To spell it out:

The toxicity of these on-line incel communities is largely due to the "blackpill philosophy" that they bandy about among themselves. "The blackpill" is misogynistic and conveniently puts the blame for all men's problems on women. Hence, when talking about these on-line toxic types, it's actually more accurate to call them "blackpillers." Because that's really the source of their toxicity.

Here are some quotes about blackpill philosophy (source: Blackpill)

_"For these blackpillers, ugly, 'genetically inferior' men have no chance of getting laid in an unconstrained mating context, as women are assumed to choose based on looks rather than personality or effort."
[...]
"Blackpillers mostly believe in biological essentialism and evolutionary explanations for human social and sexual behavior."
[...]
More recently, blackpillers have become "dominated by vocal traditional conservatives who have been incorporating more political goals such as reinstating enforced monogamy and marriage into the blackpill. Traditionalist blackpillers push for a return to traditions, sexual sublimation, monogamy and the 'natural subordination' of women."_

So in your case, if any clarification is needed, you can say, _"_I'm still a virgin. But I'm not into the toxic blackpill stuff that you sometimes find around the on-line incel community. I'm just picky about finding the right relationship." No further explanation should be needed. By itself, there's nothing weird or wrong about single life.


----------



## Flabarac Brupip (May 9, 2020)

Ock said:


> Actually you are wrong. Psychotic features can be noted in more than one mental disorder.



Actually I know psychotic features are found in more than one mental disorder, but _psychosis_ still doesn't cover every mental disorder. 

Look, all you have to do is google multiple sources and ask "Are serial killers psychotic?" I already did, but I suck at knowing "simple" things like how to share links, and trying to figure it out would be a huge pain in the ass. Yes, I'm for real. Don't ask. I get more stressed than its worth trying to figure a lot of things out.

@MisterDexter


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## 497882 (Nov 6, 2017)

Ock said:


> @MisterDexter Okay, so anyways, show me evidence, a link, something to show me that most serial killers are clinically psychotic, because I already _know_ you won't find it, unless of course its from a really sketch media source.
> 
> As far as your "horny" shit, I still have no idea what you're talking about.


I already listed them. I mean if you do not know anything about crimonology, history of any of these killers or abnormal psychology you shouldn't be talking about how normal minded they all are. When a lot have been proven to be very dullusional, and demented. Also in case you did not realize the facts I listed were real cases. Ed gene, Ted Bundy, Manson. I could give you a page but you would try to some how justify them.


----------



## 497882 (Nov 6, 2017)

Ock said:


> @MisterDexter Okay, so anyways, show me evidence, a link, something to show me that most serial killers are clinically psychotic, because I already _know_ you won't find it, unless of course its from a really sketch media source.
> 
> As far as your "horny" shit, I still have no idea what you're talking about.


Op talks about killers being that way becuase they are celibate when in reality the truth behind it is so much darker. Also many killers got a lot of tail even.


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## Flabarac Brupip (May 9, 2020)

MisterDexter said:


> I already listed them. I mean if you do not know anything about crimonology, history of any of these killers or abnormal psychology you shouldn't be talking about how normal minded they all are. When a lot have been proven to be very dullusional, and demented. Also in case you did not realize the facts I listed were real cases. Ed gene, Ted Bundy, Manson. I could give you a page but you would try to some how justify them.


GOOGLE "ARE SERIAL KILLERS PSYCHOTIC?" !!! You don't even know what _psychotic_ means. It doesn't include all demented people! Also, I never said serial killers are normal, are not demented, etc! Didn't I explain that already!? Fuck, I've been trying to explain this shit! I don't know how to make what I've already said any more dumbed down!


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## 497882 (Nov 6, 2017)

Ock said:


> GOOGLE "ARE SERIAL KILLERS PSYCHOTIC?" !!! You don't even know what _psychotic_ means. It doesn't include all demented people! Also, I never said serial killers are normal, are not demented, etc! Didn't I explain that already!? Fuck, I've been trying to explain this shit! I don't know how to make what I've already said any more dumbed down!


So you are saying that you do not belive that eating people, dressing like your mom, and believing you are a God to be worshipped is not a sign of psychotic features? I not sure why you trying so hard to defend these people, when we all know what they did was terrible. There is the case of Ed gene where I believe if caught in time the he could've gotten help, in fact a lot of people viewing the case thought so. He specifically was listed as a dullusional schizophrenic. Also saying can you type in that phrase into Google is like saying "I typed cats are cute and got 1000 articles! So you have to agree!" Saying you are a certified Google searcher is not a valid argument.


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## Catwalk (Aug 12, 2015)

SummerBreasts said:


> From what I've seen, Incels blame their involuntary celibacy on appearance and status. The problem, they claim, is caused by a number of things, including: an ugly face, an overweight body, small writs, a short stature, poor income, and the list goes on. But surely that cannot be the whole picture.
> 
> I'll just consider myself for a moment. I'm short, chubby, have a fucked up thumb and do not have status, yet sex is very easy to obtain. So easy, in fact, that it's boring outside a relationship. The same is true of a my mates. None of us are alphas, or physically attractive, yet none of us have trouble getting laid.
> 
> ...


Because it's about lookism. Some of them have BDD, but not all. They want high social status, attractive women, discriminate dating, choice abundance, and a certain lifestyle which comes easy for attractive people. It is that simple. It is a plastic surgery community - and female(s) are in on it, too. The more attractive of a female you are, the better your privileges universally speaking - not just in coitus - same for attractive males.

Do you know what they told me in law school? Short dudes should pick another career, lul. It's trash being a short dude and an unattractive female in society; & no one wants to be that willingly.

Any dude can bang a bunch of overweight basic average or ugly chick(s) and accumulate a high n-count. The sooner we realize that these people do not want nor care about below-average loser(s) having sex, the better you understand them.


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## Flabarac Brupip (May 9, 2020)

MisterDexter said:


> I not sure why you trying so hard to defend these people, when we all know what they did was terrible.


How many fuckin' times in one thread do I have to explain that I'm not defending them, saying they're normal, saying they're not demented, etc.!? For at least the 3rd time now on this thread, _I AGREE WITH YOU!!!_ Stop twisting what I'm saying!

Anyways, now that that's out of the way: I don't see how someone suffering from a psychosis could even get away with 30 murders. Psychoses are extremely debilitating. In all honesty I'd be more capable of getting away with murder now that I'm on the right pills, mentally stable, and have my wits about me. When I was ill from my psychosis I could hardly accomplish normal day to day tasks that normies take for granted, so how could I even dream about getting away with multiple murders? That's what doesn't make sense to me about the concept of the psychotic serial killer.


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## 497882 (Nov 6, 2017)

Ock said:


> How many fuckin' times in one thread do I have to explain that I'm not defending them, saying they're normal, saying they're not demented, etc.!? For at least the 3rd time now on this thread, _I AGREE WITH YOU!!!_ Stop twisting what I'm saying!
> 
> Anyways, now that that's out of the way: I don't see how someone suffering from a psychosis could even get away with 30 murders. Psychoses are extremely debilitating. In all honesty I'd be more capable of getting away with murder now that I'm on the right pills, mentally stable, and have my wits about me. When I was ill from my psychosis I could hardly accomplish normal day to day tasks that normies take for granted, so how could I even dream about getting away with multiple murders? That's what doesn't make sense to me about the concept of the psychotic serial killer.


While you reasoning makes sense it doesn't mean it's correct. They had the reasoning that Flys came from dead meat but that while following a somewhat reasonable train of thought was proven false. As there are many reported killers with these sort of features. A great example is Ed gene who was so far out of touch with reality but still committed terrible crimes. So having these type of features does not mean they are so debilitated to the point of not being able to do things. Also here is an article explaining what it is and how it can be linked to various disorders.. Unpacking Psychosis Episodes and Bipolar Disorder it's not ONE disorder that can have it.


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## Flabarac Brupip (May 9, 2020)

MisterDexter said:


> While you reasoning makes sense it doesn't mean it's correct. They had the reasoning that Flys came from dead meat but that while following a somewhat reasonable train of thought was proven false. As there are many reported killers with these sort of features. A great example is Ed gene who was so far out of touch with reality but still committed terrible crimes. So having these type of features does not mean they are so debilitated to the point of not being able to do things. Also here is an article explaining what it is and how it can be linked to various disorders.. Unpacking Psychosis Episodes and Bipolar Disorder it's not ONE disorder that can have it.


Well you know getting away with 2 murders is a lot more feasible than 30 murders. If I'm not mistaken, Ed Gein isn't even classified as a serial killer because I think he's only been shown to have for sure killed 2 people? He was more of a grave robber than anything. Someone like Ted Bundy however, who I think was found guilty of 30 murders, from what I understand was just found to have Antisocial Personality Disorder, and was very high functioning, charming, and charismatic, not like a psychotic person.

Btw, I never said only ONE disorder can have psychosis. I simply said that only people who are clinically _psychotic_ can have a psychosis, so just having Antisocial Personality Disorder, Borderline Personality Disorder, Narcissistic Personality Disorder, depression, anxiety, or whatever other mental disorders that don't require a psychosis, the disorders by them self are not enough to count as _psychotic_ , hence only _psychotic_ people are psychotic.


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## horseloverfat (Jun 29, 2018)

SummerBreasts said:


> From what I've seen, Incels blame their involuntary celibacy on appearance and status. The problem, they claim, is caused by a number of things, including: an ugly face, an overweight body, small writs, a short stature, poor income, and the list goes on. But surely that cannot be the whole picture.
> 
> I'll just consider myself for a moment. I'm short, chubby, have a fucked up thumb and do not have status, yet sex is very easy to obtain. So easy, in fact, that it's boring outside a relationship. The same is true of a my mates. None of us are alphas, or physically attractive, yet none of us have trouble getting laid.
> 
> ...


Incels are in the same category as white supremacists, you can complain about them but you can't really name them. I hate the term, its' been misused. No self respecting guy calls himself an incel, in fact most virgin men won't even admit to being a virgin because of shame. The virginity and sexlessness rate is a global problem, in japan the problem has even become worse. No not everyman expects a fucking supermodel, I hate when people describe men that way. Yes we find them attractive but other women as well, it just sounds like jealousy. It's also not just about sex, if I wanted that I could just go to a strip club. The problem is about connection and being able to be intimate with those who you find attractive. It isn't with men but with society and the way fear has overtaken people to make them afraid of others.


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## Crowbo (Jul 9, 2017)

Just a reminder to make this very clear. Never! And I repeat, ever, fucking call me an incel! I am anything but and have way too much dignity to associate myself with such a pathetic and miserable notion. 

Just because I'm 23 and have never had sex or a romantic partner yet doesn't mean that I never will. I absolutely can attract the right woman if I tried but I have bigger fish to fry in life at the moment. My potential career in photography is way more important to me than my relationship status.


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## SummerBreasts (Jul 28, 2020)

Crowbo said:


> Just a reminder to make this very clear. Never! And I repeat, ever, fucking call me an incel! I am anything but and have way too much dignity to associate myself with such a pathetic and miserable notion.
> 
> Just because I'm 23 and have never had sex or a romantic partner yet doesn't mean that I never will. I absolutely can attract the right woman if I tried but I have bigger fish to fry in life at the moment. My potential career in photography is way more important to me than my relationship status.


Oh you're still a baby. At 23 you're still at that "buy a house" phase.


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## Boudicca (9 mo ago)

SummerBreasts said:


> erers that killed because of their celibacy, I see perfectly ordinary looking men. None of them are particularly ugly. So it can't be their looks. Further, there are plenty of women out there that are just lo


I think you're onto something, it's not just about looks, although I do believe looks & personality are intertwined, as per bioenergetic theories. The incels or MGTOW people I've encountered online didn't exactly have great personalities either, but they found validation amongst themselves in wanting to blame the outside world for all the things they hated, no introspection whatsoever. When you are full of hatred, loathing, immaturity others will pick up on that vibe and not want to be anywhere near you. I know plenty of ugly people who are happily in love because their great personalities pick up the slack.


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