# How to date as an INTP male?



## Antiparticle (Jan 8, 2013)

Necrofantasia said:


> I was thinking of boredom. Some of us deal with it via social interaction, some of us don't.
> IDK about you but boredom is as undesirable to me as starvation.


Yes, but would you eat anything when you starve, i.e. every 1 hour 1 spoon of sugar for 24h, or just do something productive the whole day and have a steak with salad after work - quantity is not quality.
For me it’s much easier these days to keep myself occupied without social media or random interactions, but I really value deeper social interactions (just a few people, in person, not virtual).

Note that the applications and social media today have unwanted effects on our brain, by using notifications we get positive stimulation and want “more” of the same thing. This is manipulation of our behavior and needs (which are not fulfilled).


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## Necrofantasia (Feb 26, 2014)

Antiparticle said:


> Yes, but would you eat anything when you starve, i.e. every 1 hour 1 spoon of sugar for 24h, or just do something productive the whole day and have a steak with salad after work - quantity is not quality.
> For me it’s much easier these days to keep myself occupied without social media or random interactions, but I really value deeper social interactions (just a few people, in person, not virtual).
> 
> Note that the applications and social media today have unwanted effects on our brain, by using notifications we get positive stimulation and want “more” of the same thing. This is manipulation of our behavior and needs (which are not fulfilled).


And yet here you are....


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## PeachieKeene (11 mo ago)

SouDesuNyan said:


> I can't speak for other xNTPs, but feelings are more like something that I experience, but they're not mine. I hear it a lot, that xNTPs should be more direct about our feelings, but it doesn't make sense to me to express something that's so inconsistent. Feelings are inconsistent because they are not something that I hold on to. So, it almost feels dishonest to express my feelings, and I value honesty.
> 
> The positive thing about not holding on to feelings is that I easily forget negative things that happen to me. The negative thing is that I lose the positive feelings just as quickly.


That sounds convoluted. You're not a robot, and also not being able to experience strong emotions as they come can be detrimental to the human psyche. I wouldn't want to be with a partner who can't be direct and expressive with their emotions. Even regardless of mbti type, people emote


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## Antiparticle (Jan 8, 2013)

Necrofantasia said:


> And yet here you are....


 I think my life story is already written here (since 2013).


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## Antiparticle (Jan 8, 2013)

PeachieKeene said:


> That sounds convoluted. You're not a robot, and also not being able to experience strong emotions as they come can be detrimental to the human psyche. I wouldn't want to be with a partner who can't be direct and expressive with their emotions. Even regardless of mbti type, people emote


It’s actually a stronger (and more long-term impactful on you) expression of emotions towards you via actions, quality time given to you, tuning to you/your needs, but of course it’s also very nice to hear emotions exactly worded. It is just that one option can be a lie (words), and the other never lies (actions, especially over long time period).

Exactly the opposite of robots, who are already well trained to chat with you on various topics, but remains unclear ethical issue if they are able to act in our (human) best interests.


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## BigApplePi (Dec 1, 2011)

seant1090 said:


> Currently an INTP male in college looking to start a relationship. I'm decently tall, lift weights, can hold a conversation (well enough for an INTP), and have even hooked up before but have a hard time meeting girls I click with - I'm too nerdy for the extraverted crowd and too wild/quirky for the introverts. How should I approach dating to meet someone I vibe with? I've heard that INTPs click well with INxx females but I'm having a hard time finding those.


Wow! What a fearsome and embarrassing issue. I'm an INTP and married now but when I was dating? I went to places where there were girls and dated anyone who said yes. What was important was did they like me. I continued with the ones who liked me. I stopped with a girl I found was using me. I stopped with a girl with whom I had great sex but ditched her for a smarter more challenging girl. I'd have to think about the others. I never ask about feelings. It was obvious whether we got along or not. I continued as long as we got along and stopped when we didn't. 

I don't think I've addressed the topic of this thread, have I? My confidence was an issue. I let girls pick me, not I for them. That seemed better as how would I know what a girl was like to pick them? What made what worked, work? Damned if I know. The girls liked me. We had some something in common though not everything.


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## seant1090 (5 mo ago)

Antiparticle said:


> Why do you think you are doing something wrong? Relationships are about finding someone you deeply care for, someone who supports your dreams, thinking, (lack of) feelings, you as a person. In my view INTPs are most down to earth type, I enjoyed the grounding and advices I got from my INTP, I almost feel like he optimized my thought process into a superior thinking mode (he was geeky and liked neural networks and AI so I am sure he knew all the training secrets). I could feel what he feels even without any saying, just by my existence (he made it better). I think as INTP you have a superpower of being able to give people a “formula” how to grow into a better person over years, so find someone who treasures this and you are good. 😊


I feel like I'm doings something wrong because I'm not able to find someone despite outwardly being dateable. There's thousands of girls at my university but I can't seem to find one I jive with - maybe I looking in the wrong places (parties)?


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## SouDesuNyan (Sep 8, 2015)

Necrofantasia said:


> Ok if you want to go that route, solitary confinement has been proven to have detrimental effects on human psychology, which later on translate into physiological ones. You could have food, water, shelter and safety inside a solitary confinement cell and still survive, thriving would be another story. Even if you are a schizoid and are content with living in total isolation , consider this is used as torture. In most cases just a day or two is enough to be debilitating.
> 
> In light of this, is it too much of a stretch to think of certain forms of mental stimulation could be considered necessary for people not raised in feral conditions to have a mind that works optimally?


I've never tried solitary confinement, so I don't know how well/poorly I would do. I do like having some friends. Not sure how I would define thriving for myself. I'm satisfied with a simple and peaceful existence. What's your version of thriving? 



Antiparticle said:


> I think you should still express it, but with someone you trust and know better, after some time, they will understand even better than you what’s going on. All feelings are yours. I am good in observing feeling patterns, after some point I could tell INTP will blow up just by how he separates words in chat 😂😂 (Not the wording, by how he presses enter for the new line). Disclaimer: I have a special talent to get on INTPs nerves.


I do express feelings, sometimes, if there's little consequence (e.g. anonymous online). Most people are more sensitive than me, so I cannot filter what I say based on whether or not I would be offended. So, in person, I would keep my mouth shut. I question whether deep human connection is really necessary. It's too greedy, and asking too much for others, so I'm happy with having impersonal relationships.


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## Necrofantasia (Feb 26, 2014)

SouDesuNyan said:


> I've never tried solitary confinement, so I don't know how well/poorly I would do. I do like having some friends. Not sure how I would define thriving for myself. I'm satisfied with a simple and peaceful existence. What's your version of thriving?


Basic needs met, basic rights granted, consistent access to the flow state, synergic connections and varied experiences.
In your terms, simple/safe/fun.

But yeah we evolved as a gregarious species, _because_ of it even. The fact we're even having this conversation is kind of a QED that there are human needs that aren't inherently material. Full schizoid personality disorder is exactly what it says on the tin.

Here you may have seen this chestnut before. Having access to healthy sources of validation, support networks and connections correlate with a healthy mind.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_of_needs


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## Antiparticle (Jan 8, 2013)

seant1090 said:


> I feel like I'm doings something wrong because I'm not able to find someone despite outwardly being dateable. There's thousands of girls at my university but I can't seem to find one I jive with - maybe I looking in the wrong places (parties)?


Do you have a smaller circle of people related to your college activities or hobbies? If not, try to find a closer group of friends first, start to do things together, not just parties. College is relatively early to find someone for long term, are you sure you want to start a serious relationship now? You will also meet new people when you start to work, so there will be many opportunities.


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## seant1090 (5 mo ago)

Antiparticle said:


> Do you have a smaller circle of people related to your college activities or hobbies? If not, try to find a closer group of friends first, start to do things together, not just parties. College is relatively early to find someone for long term, are you sure you want to start a serious relationship now? You will also meet new people when you start to work, so there will be many opportunities.


I have not - one thing I'm working on this semester is to be more active in clubs and activities. The reason I'm looking for a relationship is because I had hookups and they didn't feel satisfying (I feel like I need more than just physical pleasure to be satisfied).


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## TheCloud (May 10, 2015)

seant1090 said:


> I feel like I do those things already, I'm just not sure what else I'm not doing right


You may need to revise your idea of how effective doing right is for wooing women. There are too many examples from media of the main connection between the man and woman lead being that the man is a "nice guy" who does right when all the other men are dicks. It's not that being a nice guy is bad or wrong or hurts your chances, I just believe that it's given the wrong impression of how scarce nice guys are. They're not scarce at all, and it won't make you appear nearly as special as you want it to.

It's also possible that you're looking for the wrong things. Despite your best efforts to be egalitarian, it's still easy to overlook women who fall some distance from the conventions of beauty we're accustomed to, particularly if they're standing near someone pretty. Greed for beauty and aversion for its opposite is truly a challenge to overcome, especially for someone who has worked to beautify himself, and it's possible that you're the one who is unknowingly restricting your pool of dateables based on superficial criteria.

Even if you spread your gaze as far as possible, dating is still kind of a numbers game. It's just going to take time to get lucky and find someone compatible, especially for outliers like INTPs. Some of my best luck is from volunteering. Not all volunteering is soup kitchens, either. Find something that somewhat interests you, and give it a try. There aren't many better bonding activities than working together to achieve a common goal.

When you do find someone, treat her with care. Romance is challenging. It's not just sex and breakfast in bed. It touches on our deepest and most sensitive areas, areas that no one else has dared to touch. It wouldn't be worth it if it didn't, but that's also the place where it's easiest to get hurt and to hurt others. When possible, face your demons ahead of time, because they will come out at their ugliest. You can do it, maybe, and it's still fine if you can't. Good luck!


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## islandlight (Aug 13, 2013)

Antiparticle said:


> It’s actually a stronger (and more long-term impactful on you) expression of emotions towards you via actions, quality time given to you, tuning to you/your needs, but of course it’s also very nice to hear emotions exactly worded. It is just that one option can be a lie (words), and the other never lies (actions, especially over long time period).
> 
> Exactly the opposite of robots, who are already well trained to chat with you on various topics, but remains unclear ethical issue if they are able to act in our (human) best interests.


Right. Long story condensed: I lived with a man. I had sex, was affectionate, cooked, cleaned, tucked him in with a kiss before his daily naps, was decent to his friends, and adjusted uncomplainingly to his idiosyncrasies and the inconveniences of living in the woods. After 3 years he kicked me out. 

A couple of months later I phoned him and told him I loved him. He said, "I wish I'd known that." What did he think I was feeling all that time?


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## BigApplePi (Dec 1, 2011)

islandlight said:


> What did he think I was feeling all that time?


He couldn't read an INTPs dedication?


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## Antiparticle (Jan 8, 2013)

islandlight said:


> What did he think I was feeling all that time?


Maybe:

he took it for granted
he needs to become more conscious about himself and others (nice way to say someone is superficial)
he is a wrong person for you


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## impulsenine (Oct 18, 2020)

Show your X collection, where X -> anything that not even a hermaphrodite unicorn with 3 balls and 4 tits would think of collecting.


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## Mark R (Dec 23, 2015)

seant1090 said:


> Currently an INTP male in college looking to start a relationship. I'm decently tall, lift weights, can hold a conversation (well enough for an INTP), and have even hooked up before but have a hard time meeting girls I click with - I'm too nerdy for the extraverted crowd and too wild/quirky for the introverts. How should I approach dating to meet someone I vibe with? I've heard that INTPs click well with INxx females but I'm having a hard time finding those.


This was suggested by Seth Stephens-Davidowitz (not a PUA), author of _Don't Follow Your Gut_. I interpret it through my own lens. First, you want to create a brand by exaggerating a particular aspect of your personality. You describe yourself as a wild, quirky nerd. You want to refine and exaggerate this archetype. You want your clothing styles to scream this personality with such things as glasses, bow-tie, pocket-protector, etc. At this point, you approach and talk with a lot of women everywhere. It is a numbers game. It might ease your sense of rejection to know that women are rejecting a stereotype rather than you. But in a way, it is also genuine and honest because that is how you describe yourself.

INxx women are approximately 8.8% of the population. You basically have to date many women until you find the right type.

1 - (1 - .088)^N = Probability of meeting an INxx after N women.

for example if N=8, then 1- (1 - .088)^8 = 52%

Date many women casually at first. Actually, rather than looking for a particular type, find someone with traits condusive to long term relationships. Find someone who is kind, and not a psycho. Most INTP's love novelty and new experiences, so find someone that shares that attitude. Hard working is usually good trait to look for. But if you are lazy, a conscientious women will resent you. Maybe just find someone that works similarly hard as you. Looks don't matter in the long run.


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## Antiparticle (Jan 8, 2013)

SouDesuNyan said:


> I question whether deep human connection is really necessary. It's too greedy, and asking too much for others, so I'm happy with having impersonal relationships.


It’s necessary, but when you like someone.


seant1090 said:


> The reason I'm looking for a relationship is because I had hookups and they didn't feel satisfying (I feel like I need more than just physical pleasure to be satisfied).


I think you should keep your heart open for a soul mate, not just for a casual date, they exist, and usually very close to you and care about what you want/like to do.
I think at first INTP didn’t like me, he was serious and calm, I liked to talk, asked too many questions, acted childish, so we were the exact opposites. He started to come in our joint seminar/library room close to my office to work. One evening I also stayed late and talked with him 3-4 hours, he wanted to work alone, so he suggested that I go do something in my office and gave me a “task”. I was thinking “this must be so smart” and later I realized it was just to get rid of me so he can work in peace. 😂 I always thought he was brilliant scientist who cared for people, both IQ and EQ. Probably we got along very well as INFJ and INTP, aka “golden pairing”: The Golden Pair: The Compatibility for an INTP and INFJ Relationship | PairedLife


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## Necrofantasia (Feb 26, 2014)

God please not the golden pair bollocks again....


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## Ssenptni (Mar 26, 2021)

In my recent experience, dating another INTP is a self-dodging bullet and it's a good way to learn your tells and how insufferable dating you is. Highly recommended.


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## dirt. (4 mo ago)

Antiparticle said:


> Maybe:
> 
> he took it for granted
> he needs to become more conscious about himself and others (nice way to say someone is superficial)
> he is a wrong person for you


Or he's a person who's love language leans heavily towards verbal and away from acts of service, and he really needed her to communicate her feelings to him in a way he could fully process. If after three years of living together she had never once told him she loved him, especially if he'd been saying it to her, I don't blame the guy. Most people would have very serious doubts about the relationship, in that case.


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## dirt. (4 mo ago)

seant1090 said:


> What are the common pitfalls of dating an INTP?


In my experience, NTs in general have a real problem with what I suppose I would call 'rationality entitlement'. The majority of my partners have been NTs, as well as many friends and almost all members of my immediate family. I can't tell you how deeply tired I am of the years of emotional labor involved in explaining to them that simply because you disagree with the logic of someone's emotions does not mean that their emotions suddenly don't exist or are not relevant to the circumstances or your relationship with them. NTs largely seem to have this idea that they can explain away other's feelings, that if they consider the reason for the person's emotions illogical, the emotions are not valid and they're free to ignore them without consequence. Sometimes this manifests as an NT explaining to the person why their feelings don't make sense, believing that they've genuinely solved the problem, and then being completely blindsided when it resurfaces or develops into something worse. Sometimes it manifests as a stubborn refusal to deal with the problem at all, knowing the other person still feels the way they do, but the NT feeling completely entitled to dismiss the other's emotions and perspective because _they_ consider it illogical. And then often blaming the other person if they don't just shut up and repress, because they've already been ¨proven wrong¨ in the NTs mind.
As an example, my ENTJ mother, in response to my dad telling her he felt completely unloved in their relationship and was reaching a breaking point, explained to him in her usual corporate-jargon-style that she married him (twenty years ago) and why would she have done that if she didn't love him, duh, so he should know and therefore she _shouldn't have_ to express affection or put forth any effort to make him feel appreciated or his needs respected, checkmate, glad you understand now.  This was about six months before the divorce. She was completely shocked, never saw it coming.

Really only one NT in my life thusfar has not required many, many very long talks about the fact that this is not how emotions work and not how relationships work. I imagine this particular social/emotional deficiency would be one of the biggest difficulties in dating your average INTP.


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## Mark R (Dec 23, 2015)

dirt. said:


> OP, please do not do this. Any woman with even a modicum of social intelligence will know what she's looking at - a costume.


As a cis-gendered male, I appreciate a woman in a costume even if I am aware it is a costume. Maybe it is the same for a woman.


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## Antiparticle (Jan 8, 2013)

dirt. said:


> Or he's a person who's love language leans heavily towards verbal and away from acts of service, and he really needed her to communicate her feelings to him in a way he could fully process. If after three years of living together she had never once told him she loved him, especially if he'd been saying it to her, I don't blame the guy. Most people would have very serious doubts about the relationship, in that case.


Well, if he likes to talk, why not just ask?


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## dirt. (4 mo ago)

Mark R said:


> As a cis-gendered male, I appreciate a woman in a costume even if I am aware it is a costume. Maybe it is the same for a woman.


I'd think that would be true for far fewer women than men. For one thing, women being performative is unfortunately more normalized so as to play to male fantasies. Also women have more cause to be wary when meeting a potential partner, a guy who comes off as trying too hard or putting on a persona is often a major red flag of other underlying issues.


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## dirt. (4 mo ago)

Antiparticle said:


> Well, if he likes to talk, why not just ask?


There could be any number of reasons. We don't know much about the situation.


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## Mark R (Dec 23, 2015)

dirt. said:


> I'd think that would be true for far fewer women than men. For one thing, women being performative is unfortunately more normalized so as to play to male fantasies. Also women have more cause to be wary when meeting a potential partner, a guy who comes off as trying too hard or putting on a persona is often a major red flag of other underlying issues.


I think the tendency of many people is to hide or tone down aspects of their personalities in order to fit it. The suggestion I support is to express or even exaggerate your personality in the way you dress. This is different from trying too hard or putting on a persona. The former is showing courage by owning who you are and drawing people to it. The latter is altering who you are because you think you will only be accepted if you pretend to be someone else.


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## bibbidi-bobbidi-boo (3 mo ago)

seant1090 said:


> Currently an INTP male in college looking to start a relationship. I'm decently tall, lift weights, can hold a conversation (well enough for an INTP), and have even hooked up before but have a hard time meeting girls I click with - I'm too nerdy for the extraverted crowd and too wild/quirky for the introverts. How should I approach dating to meet someone I vibe with? I've heard that INTPs click well with INxx females but I'm having a hard time finding those.


You just need practice wooing women, resulting in sex, hopefully. It's good practice. In essence, women like confidence, men who aggressively go after what they want, whether they admit it or not. I am not sure what women are like in your generation, as I am gen X, but I seriously doubt women had changed. On the downside, the percentage of sexless people in your generation has sky-rocketed; yeah, your grandparents had more sex than you do.


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## Mark R (Dec 23, 2015)

bibbidi-bobbidi-boo said:


> You just need practice wooing women, resulting in sex, hopefully. It's good practice. In essence, women like confidence, men who aggressively go after what they want, whether they admit it or not. I am not sure what women are like in your generation, as I am gen X, but I seriously doubt women had changed. On the downside, the percentage of sexless people in your generation has sky-rocketed; yeah, your grandparents had more sex than you do.


Boomer here. Women haven't changed, but society has. Marriage and monogamy are ideals from past generations. A woman still looks for a man that is taller and more educated she is, but women are graduating from university at twice the rate of men.


seant1090 said:


> I've heard that INTPs click well with INxx females but I'm having a hard time finding those.


NT's are actually SP magnets. You actually might have the best luck attracting an artisan. I'm basing some of this on experience and some of this on the Baron-Tieger (2000) study. Artisans like rationals the best. Idealists like both rationals and idealists. Rationals like Idealists the most, artisans second, traditionals third, and fellow rationals last.

[INTP] - The INTP Reference Guide


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## bibbidi-bobbidi-boo (3 mo ago)

Mark R said:


> Boomer here. Women haven't changed, but society has. Marriage and monogamy are ideals from past generations. A woman still looks for a man that is taller and more educated she is, but women are graduating from university at twice the rate of men.
> 
> NT's are actually SP magnets. You actually might have the best luck attracting an artisan.


The only magnet for a female is a self-confident male, hopefully well hung.


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## Antiparticle (Jan 8, 2013)

Mark R said:


> Idealists like both rationals and idealists. Rationals like Idealists the most, artisans second, traditionals third, and fellow rationals last.


Cute dynamics between rationals & idealists. Makes sense.


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## dirt. (4 mo ago)

bibbidi-bobbidi-boo said:


> The only magnet for a female is a self-confident male, hopefully well hung.


Yikes.


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## dirt. (4 mo ago)

Mark R said:


> I think the tendency of many people is to hide or tone down aspects of their personalities in order to fit it. The suggestion I support is to express or even exaggerate your personality in the way you dress. This is different from trying too hard or putting on a persona. The former is showing courage by owning who you are and drawing people to it. The latter is altering who you are because you think you will only be accepted if you pretend to be someone else.


Express, I absolutely agree. You're right that people do bland themselves to avoid ridicule, and it often doesn't work to our benefit. ¨Exaggerate¨ is where you lose me. Wearing big fake glasses and a pocket protector because you consider yourself kinda nerdy and want to play to that fantasy to get attention is not the same as expressing yourself. It's phony, and people will pick up on that.


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## Eren Jaegerbomb (Nov 13, 2015)

Maybe an older INTP could help.


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## seant1090 (5 mo ago)

Eren Jaegerbomb said:


> Maybe an older INTP could help.


Any older INTPs have any thoughts?


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## SouDesuNyan (Sep 8, 2015)

seant1090 said:


> Any older INTPs have any thoughts?


I'm an older xNTP male (39 y/o). I don't have any issue talking with women, but I don't use dating apps, and don't hit on women, so I've been single for like 10 years. I had a girlfriend before, and it was a good experience. We broke up because she wanted to move to a different city, and I didn't. 

I don't mind being single. Everything else in my life has been great. I have a relaxing job that pays well, I have friends IRL and online, I'm physically healthy. Having a dating life would be too greedy, and I don't want to push my luck.


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## Oaktree (2 mo ago)

INTP man here, 43. All of my relationships have come from me being embedded in a group for a long period of time, ie school/work. I have always waited for a female to show her interest before I act. The thought of rejection limits me greatly. Patience seems to pay off when I least expect it.


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