# A Classic Case of "ENFP or ENTP?"



## DandyAndCheese (Nov 16, 2012)

Hey all! I love psychology and the MBTI and really think I'm an ENFP, but I have a lot of ENTP moments and also often get tested as one sometimes. I thought the Fi-Te was really me, but maybe I don't understand well the functions... Finally there is also the N/S that I have trouble with. I really think I'm N, but I don't have any real life S friend around me to help me see the differences...
I hope you can help me (un)confirm my ENFP-ness!
Thank you.

(The answers and the tests have been written/answered on a period of about 4 months )


*1. What are 5 key qualities about you, and what is each of their direct opposites?*

Adaptable - One-sided
Accepting of people – Reluctant to accept differences
Hard Working – Not caring about bad work
Procrastinating - Organized Working
Innovative – Following the default path

*2. Now explain why each of the opposites COULD be you and why it might be GOOD to be that opposite characteristic. Own them even if they are negative traits.*

One-sided : I could be one sided, well because I’m just one person, there is only one true me. Being one-sided could help me be true to myself and always say what I want to say and never hide my true self. 

Reluctant to accept differences: I can be reluctant to accept differences in people who do not share my qualities (like the 5 above). I really can’t see anything seriously good about not being open to others. 

Not caring about bad work : Sometimes I don’t care about bad work… Especially when it’s not in a school environnement. In a school environnement it could help me be more relax and get more sleep.

Organized working : I can be considered organized, because when I work with others, I try to make sure everything is planned, in control, and that everybody does his job. It could help me, not loose so much time finding my things, and avoid big rushes of work.

Following the default path : I sometimes follow the default path, because it’s the easiest. If I feel like I want something to be easy more than true to myself, I’ll just follow the path. Following it could make life easier.



*3. What would you say to a 5-year-old child if he or she asked you what the purpose of life is?*


Having the longest, happiest and least unhappy life as possible.


*4. What type of advice would you give that same child on how to survive in this world?*

Have fun whenever you can.
Be careful about having too much fun, sometimes you have responsabilities, that if you don’t fufill, will end up decreasing the future fun you can have.
When you feel negative emotions, forget them. Anyway, soon, more fun is to come.


*5. If you were told you only had one year to live from today, and it was 100% guaranteed that you would die exactly 1 year from now, what would you do in that year? 

*-Drop out from school.

-Travel the world.

-Ask all the girls I know to have sex

-Probably a lot of introspective thinking, as much as I need to make peace with death.

-Never be alone and at home, doing nothing (after making peace with death).
-Party!

-Try to let some kind of mark on the world.

-Say everything I’ve ever wanted to say.

*6. Why aren't you doing this now?*


-In the long run, having an education will benefit me more than dropping out

-I’m too poor to travel non-stop, I have obligations

-I ALMOST asked all the girls I know to have sex with me. I don’t know why I don't do it. I guess I want to keep some friends. I don’t want to be called a pervert at school… It's not the image I want to show of myself.

-I already do a lot of introspective thinking, death is (I hope) far away enough for me to have the internal reflexion on death later . Right now I still fear it greatly.

-Most of the time I’m busy with work, and when I’m not, I’m rarely busy with other things. When I’m at home doing nothing, it’s most of the time to relax myself for the work to come. When it’s not, I usually have fun at home, even If I do no extraordinary thing.

I to party as most as I can ! My neighbours are a pain about it though !

I think I have time to leave my mark…

I’m scared of the consequences of what I might say…

*7. What do you really want in your truest self? *


Happiness
Through saying/Doing whatever I want
and through Finding love

*8. What have you substituted/settled for compared to what you really want?*

I’ve settled saying only about 50% of what I really want to say (and people think I always say too much, or compliment on how true I am to myself!)

I’ve settled on not doing everything I want because of fear…

I’ve settled on letting love find me, instead of looking for it, because I’ve been hurt too often to put the effort.

*9. What are your defense mechanisms?
Sometimes people don’t realize what their true defense mechanisms are because they are working at 100% efficiency. You may have to really think about this one.*

Narcicism (to feel it’s the fault of others, not mine)

Looking happy/Humor (To hide my true sadness)

*10. What are some good habits that are needed for living a healthy adult life?*


Optimism
Understanding that (in)actions have consequences

*11. What are you like in relaxed and non-threatening situations?*


Relaxed and non-theatening.

If I’m happy and energized, I’ll be non stop speaking and telling people crazy ideas I have running in the room and doing quirky and whimsical things, and/or trying to charm a lovely lady.

If I’m not happy and/or energized, I’ll probably be sitting somewhere, thinking.

*12. What is your predominant fault?*

I can’t answer that. It is in the hand of others to judge. I don’t know how I’m perceived by others.

I say that I should learn to procrastinate less, but that’s only from a personal point of view, it’s probably not my predominant fault…

*13. Think of a time when you felt at ease and connected to yourself and others. What did you think about yourself, others, and the entire world during this time?*

I’m awesome. Others are nice. The world is awesome.
I’m happy. I hope others are happy too. The world and life are so great.


*14. Think of a time when you felt anxious and disconnected from yourself and others. What did you think about yourself, others, and the entire world during this time?*


I’m not awesome. Others are mean and don’t like. The world is so unfair and sucks.
I’m sad. I think there is a lot of sad people/ I think everybody else is happy. 

*15. What is an addiction or urge that seems to drive you as almost as if you’re not in control? Almost like an alien force that drives or pushes you down.*


Food. Girls. Need to do my work (but only last minute, before it’s an opposite force that push me not to do it)

*16. What things do you feel you cannot do because they might jeopardize your survival?*


See questions 5. and 6.

*17. What do you need in your life to face your fears?*

Confidence, happiness.

*18. What is your own personal mission statement?*

I just want to live the happiest life I can, and I don’t give a fuck about the way I do so.





Worldpersonality.com - test your personality
ENTJ





Free Personality Test | Myers Briggs Type Indicator | Free Readings | Goddess Flight
ENFP





http://personalitycafe.com/personal...6-simplified-mbti-preferences-assessment.html


Extravert Characteristics 9

* Gregarious 
* Talkative
* Social/outgoing
* Likes groups, parties, etc.
* Energized by interaction
* Expressive & enthusiastic
* Volunteers personal information
* Distractable
* Easy to approach 




Introvert Characteristics 9

* Energized by time alone
* Private
* Keeps to self
* Quiet
* Deliberate
* Internally aware
* Fewer friends
* Independent
* Thinks before speaking



Sensing Characteristics 2

* Realistic
* Factual 


Intuitive Characteristics 9

* Future-focused
* Sees possibilities
* Inventive
* Imaginitive
* Deep
* Abstract
* Idealistic
* Complicated
* Theoretical



Thinking Characteristics 8

* Logical
* Objective
* Decides with head
* Wants truth
* Rational
* Impersonal
* Critical
* Driven by thought 


Feeling Characteristics 8

* Decides with heart
* Dislikes conflict
* Passionate
* Driven by emotion
* Gentle
* Easily hurt
* Caring of others
* Warm


Judging Characteristics 4

* Controlled
* Responsible
* Likes closure
* Makes plans 


Perceiving Characteristics 7

* Adaptable
* Relaxed
* Disorganized
* Keeps options open
* Procrastinates
* Dislikes routine
* Flexible


XNXP…








Keys 2 Cognition - Cognitive Processes



*Cognitive Process**Level of Development (Preference, Skill and Frequency of Use)*extraverted Sensing (Se) ***************************** (29.8)
average useintroverted Sensing (Si) ******************** (20.7)
limited useextraverted Intuiting (Ne) ******************************* (31.9)
good useintroverted Intuiting (Ni) ****************************** (30.8)
good useextraverted Thinking (Te) ***************************** (29.8)
average useintroverted Thinking (Ti) ***************************** (29.7)
average useextraverted Feeling (Fe) ************************* (25.7)
average useintroverted Feeling (Fi) ***************************************** (41)
excellent use
 

INFP






Personality Tests and Type Profiles


Extraverted Introverted

63% 37%

Sensing Intuition

21% 79%
 


Thinking Feeling

42% 58%
 


JudgingPerceiving

32% 68%


 








Personality Test - Keirsey.com *** Keirsey Temperament Sorter II

ENTP


16 Personality Types Quiz

INTP (XNXP)

*Your Preferences:*
Introversion (I): 51.35%
Extroversion (E): 48.65%

Intuition (N): 85.29%
Sensation (S) : 14.71%

Thinking (T): 50%
Feeling (F) : 50%

Judging (J) : 19.23%
Perceiving (P) : 80.77%

cognitivequiz.com

(Doesn't work anymore, but I've gotten ENFP, INFP and ENTP with it)



Links to Enneagram type thread I've created.

http://personalitycafe.com/whats-my-enneagram-type/138486-if-its-all-caps-maybe-youll-want-type-me-please.html

http://personalitycafe.com/whats-my-enneagram-type/128446-well-id-like-know-my-enneagram-type-could-you-help-me-thank-you-thats-kind.html

Here is a detailed big five personality test...

EXTRAVERSION...............65
..Friendliness.............59
..Gregariousness...........77
..Assertiveness............73
..Activity Level...........27
..Excitement-Seeking.......41
..Cheerfulness.............80


AGREEABLENESS..............63
..Trust....................89
..Morality.................72
..Altruism.................36
..Cooperation..............73
..Modesty..................7
..Sympathy.................75


CONSCIENTIOUSNESS..........57
..Self-Efficacy............87
..Orderliness..............17
..Dutifulness..............91
..Achievement-Striving.....79
..Self-Discipline..........5
..Cautiousness.............74


NEUROTICISM................57
..Anxiety..................55
..Anger....................18
..Depression...............81
..Self-Consciousness.......43
..Immoderation.............81
..Vulnerability............49


OPENNESS TO EXPERIENCE.....80
..Imagination..............76
..Artistic Interests.......73
..Emotionality.............74
..Adventurousness..........73
..Intellect................32
..Liberalism...............90


I hope you have enough info to type me.
If you'd like to ask more, I'd be delighted to answer!

Thank you!


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## Psychopomp (Oct 3, 2012)

@DandyAndCheese - You repeatedly state that when you introvert, it is to 'think', introspectively. Also, you seem to be better at internalizing logic and actively 'thinking' than at internalizing valuation. I didn't see any valuation at at all, which is fine and doesn't mean that you don't use Fi necessarily, but I also didn't see any snap critical judgments or (what a Ti like me considers 'hasty') observations. This:



> Reluctant to accept differences: I can be reluctant to accept differences in people who do not share my qualities (like the 5 above). I really can’t see anything seriously good about not being open to others.


Strikes me as a Je quality. Depending on what you mean, this could be Fe or Te. Because, for an ENxP, Je and Ji are rolling around in the middle, they can become conflated if based only on observable actions. Instead, you simply need to determine what:

1) You are best and most comfortable with using in a conscious way. Actually, maybe consider it in terms of wisdom and maturity. Which of your F and T is older and more refined? 
2) Which of the two operates based on what is externally apparent and which works against what is externally apparent. Which says 'yes, it is that way, I just saw it' and which says '.... yeah, but is it? Let me think about this.' 

For example, I am clearly more measured and mature in my logic. I PREFER the realm valuation, morality, philosophy, good and evil, but I know that my sense of logical consistency is both introverted and more mature/capable/wise. When I come to a direct/overt/explicit moral judgment, I am more inclined to get it out there and 'put it to the group'. Often I don't do this, but that is my inclination. I seek for someone who is wiser and more mature dealing with interpersonal ethics and appropriateness to enrich and add wise nuance to my snap social value judgments. I look up to them in that. I don't know anyone I look up to in terms of internal logical process... I am my own god in that respect.

You see what I am getting at?

I am guessing, given the dichotomy, ENTP. I am willing to accept the Ne premise... which I usually am not... mostly because I assume that most people who type themselves Ne are not. It's a soap box—rather, inquisition—of mine. I think your generalizations and word usage is consistent with a strong Ne. You certainly abstracted a lot of things, which many types can do, but you seemed to do it as one who does so easily and often. Your self-proclaimed narcissism seems to me to indicate a weaker Fe as well, since it's a fundamentally socialized 'disorder' and deals very much with social obligation and interpersonal judgment. If you are unhealthy extraverting this, you may be struggling against an Fe in—to coin a phrase—arrested development. Take that, as with everything I say, with a grain of salt.

I know there are are fair few ENxP on this forum, but the ones I know and whom I also know are actually ENxP, are:

ENTP @Jabberbroccoli
ENFP @ebullientcorner

I am not invoking them to help type you, necessarily, unless they find themselves so inclined. Rather, you could look a their posts to see if you can isolate a dichotomy. I also chose them because I consider them very distinctly and observably different from one another. Having said that, please don't reduce this to a dichotomy. It could be a false one. These two individuals are, at the very least, a shocking reminder of the horrors of dominant Ne. 

Also, if you haven't studied the holy hell out of the functions and used these forums to gain a number of different perspectives on them, you won't be able to pull this off with any assurance of accuracy. 

Thoughts?


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## DandyAndCheese (Nov 16, 2012)

@arkigos


arkigos said:


> @_DandyAndCheese_ - You repeatedly state that when you introvert, it is to 'think', introspectively.


Well, yeah, but it's not about how a toaster work or my next chemistry exam, it's about my feelings, always. Like how I feel about different girls, or how I see the future.



arkigos said:


> Also, you seem to be better at internalizing logic and actively 'thinking' than at internalizing valuation. I didn't see any valuation at at all, which is fine and doesn't mean that you don't use Fi necessarily, but I also didn't see any snap critical judgments or (what a Ti like me considers 'hasty') observations.


 I'm not sure what you mean ? I do have a strong logical side, but is that realy related to the functions ? Probably. Like I think I've said, I've been reading on the functions... and it's so confusing and not consistent. What I've understand (probably wrongly), is that Ti is the understanding of how a toaster works, and Te is organizing people and leadership. I'm somebody who really doesn't care about how different technological items are made, but I can see, maybe in a political or economical context, the cause to effect of something quite easily... Is that Ti? I have no Idea if that is stronger or weaker than my understanding of Te, which was Also a objective Thinking. I mean to me, objective thinking and subjective feeling, I have a hard time imagining it the other way round. On snap critical judgements, I do have some, but I did not deem it necessary, to talk about them.



arkigos said:


> This: Strikes me as a Je quality. Depending on what you mean, this could be Fe or Te. Because, for an ENxP, Je and Ji are rolling around in the middle, they can become conflated if based only on observable actions. Instead, you simply need to determine what:
> 
> 1) You are best and most comfortable with using in a conscious way. Actually, maybe consider it in terms of wisdom and maturity. Which of your F and T is older and more refined?
> 2) Which of the two operates based on what is externally apparent and which works against what is externally apparent. Which says 'yes, it is that way, I just saw it' and which says '.... yeah, but is it? Let me think about this.'


 My T is probably more refined. My T definetly is more true, I mean it's just facts, facts are not wrong. I don't know if that's suppose to indicate Ti or Te, but whoever is against what I just said is wrong. Facts are Facts. Feelings can change and are subjective. On the other hand, when I have a belief, to me it's a fact. It can be wrong, and I do know that, but to me, it's a fact. Nothing work against what is externally apparrent... I might want to dig deeper in both thinking in feeling about what is externally apparent. And the "let me think about this", would probably be Feeling. Well it can also be thinking, I guess. I can think about both, really...



arkigos said:


> For example, I am clearly more measured and mature in my logic. I PREFER the realm valuation, morality, philosophy, good and evil, but I know that my sense of logical consistency is both introverted and more mature/capable/wise. When I come to a direct/overt/explicit moral judgment, I am more inclined to get it out there and 'put it to the group'. Often I don't do this, but that is my inclination. I seek for someone who is wiser and more mature dealing with interpersonal ethics and appropriateness to enrich and add wise nuance to my snap social value judgments. I look up to them in that. I don't know anyone I look up to in terms of internal logical process... I am my own god in that respect.


 I'm more enclined to asked help in the realm of thinking, facts. My feelings can be wrong, but they're my feelings. I don't need anybody else to tell me how to believe, I'll do that on my own. On the other hand, I'm pretty confident about my resoning skills too. I'll ask about things I don't know, but I'll never really ask someone if they think my logic is right...



arkigos said:


> You see what I am getting at?


 No.



arkigos said:


> I am guessing, given the dichotomy, ENTP. I am willing to accept the Ne premise... which I usually am not... mostly because I assume that most people who type themselves Ne are not. It's a soap box—rather, inquisition—of mine. I think your generalizations and word usage is consistent with a strong Ne. You certainly abstracted a lot of things, which many types can do, but you seemed to do it as one who does so easily and often. Your self-proclaimed narcissism seems to me to indicate a weaker Fe as well, since it's a fundamentally socialized 'disorder' and deals very much with social obligation and interpersonal judgment. If you are unhealthy extraverting this, you may be struggling against an Fe in—to coin a phrase—arrested development. Take that, as with everything I say, with a grain of salt.


 I'm not really a narcissist. It's a defense mechanism I use, sometimes, to feel better about myself, but I'm not a narcissist. Especially to those around me. I know nobody around me would think that I am. I've actually asked them what they thought and the said to them I wasn't.



arkigos said:


> I know there are are fair few ENxP on this forum, but the ones I know and whom I also know are actually ENxP, are:
> 
> ENTP @_Jabberbroccoli_
> ENFP @_ebullientcorner_
> ...


 I did not find anything really different about them. I probably _could _but in just 10 minutes of going trhough their posts, I found nothing.
Maybe someday I'll have more ambition to analyze every little detail and vocabulary...



arkigos said:


> Also, if you haven't studied the holy hell out of the functions and used these forums to gain a number of different perspectives on them, you won't be able to pull this off with any assurance of accuracy.


 I've tried studying the functions, but the information I've found was so contradicting and unclear, almost horoscope-like vague, that I decided I'd take a break trying to understand that. I mean, for example, I started a thread about Fi vs Fe, and instead of getting a clear answer, to help me understand my type, I've started a debate on what is Fe vs Fi... The answers were really different... Is there something you recommend I read ? I won't buy a book. I have no time to read an entire book. At least not now. Just a detailed website maybe ?



arkigos said:


> Thoughts?


 Well, I'm still very unsure of my type, but you provided nice infos and questions. Thank you very much!


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## DandyAndCheese (Nov 16, 2012)

@All in Twilight
Hey.
I remember a few weeks ago, you helped me try to find my enneagram type and told me I was giving an ExTP vibe.
Maybe you could tell me what you meant and give your opinion on MBTI this time ?
Thank you!


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## LadyO.W.BernieBro (Sep 4, 2010)

l think l'm an ENFP too but people still say ENTP lol.

l will let the professionals type you 

But l do something similar to you, l use "think" when talking about feelings, and sometimes use "feel" when speaking objective thoughts so it's misleading.

Ti/Fi seems to have merged into an amorphous blob of ambivalence for me, but l can see a few examples of myself using both.

l still think l'm an ENFP being that it's way more likely, if you believe you are too you must know that you do what you perceiving as "feeling" on some level.

But try to keep in mind that in MBTI, Fi isn't simply about being emotional, it's also about having a mental framework that is based on morals and values rather than objective information. This sounds like it'd be extremely easy to distinguish as well, but for me l still feel in between the two extremes.

You could be tapping into Fe but l don't want to get into that since l'm really not knowledgeable about the tertiary function.


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## All in Twilight (Oct 12, 2012)

DandyAndCheese said:


> @_All in Twilight_
> Hey.
> I remember a few weeks ago, you helped me try to find my enneagram type and told me I was giving an ExTP vibe.
> Maybe you could tell me what you meant and give your opinion on MBTI this time ?
> Thank you!


Sure, for 25 bucks I'll do it.


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## DandyAndCheese (Nov 16, 2012)

All in Twilight said:


> Sure, for 25 bucks I'll do it.










x25


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## The Wanderering ______ (Jul 17, 2012)

You need to look at your inter-correlation between Ti-Fe or Fi-Te. 

Trust me huge difference. 
I use Ti to analyze the social sphere (Fe) based on my previous observtions (Si) and the patterns that seem to connect out of thin air (Ne). For instance when this one Girl emailed me asking for help with for an assigment my first guess was that she must like me, my Ne and Ti took a common Fe interaction and pulled its own interpretation. Which was wrong but because I acted on it I ended up meeting someone.

The point is just look at yourself as a whole. There are numerous posts all over the web about Ti vs Fi. If you want a real difference and you already know you are Ne dom look up the difference between INFP and INTP.


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## Tridentus (Dec 14, 2009)

Do you find yourself trying to validate your subjective feelings and values with what you think is universal logic more, or do you find yourself often trying to validate your subjective logic with what you feel are universal emotional values and concepts? if you've really taken the time to understand the functions and understand yourself, there should be a clear answer for you.

as an ENFP, i'm always very subjective in my values, i dislike being restricted in my own beliefs. Because my feelings are so subjective, because other people will not understand (they after all, not being me), so i often try to enhance and validate my feelings (when explaining them to friends, etc.) with a form of, what i perceive to be, objective logic which supports my personal feelings.

an ENTP would often do the opposite- an ENTP would often utilize a personal logic (hence the mad-scientist label, Ne + subjective logic), and when required to explain it, if they feel an audience would not appreciate or understand their own brand of personal logic, they will attempt to validate it with sets of "objective" values which support their judgement of a matter. reginald d. hunter being a perfect example, as he is always hilariously comparing his personal logical view of the world with his Fe sense of social values, and joking about the moments when he can't be bothered to validate his personal logic with objective values.


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## LadyO.W.BernieBro (Sep 4, 2010)

Hey man.

Have you taken any of the cognitive functions tests? They key 2 cognitions is what l see recommended here, plus l like Dario Nardi so l took it ^_^

Anyway l could gain a better understanding of the functions myself but l answered as honestly as possible and these were my results:

Ne-Ni-Ti-Fi-Fe-Te-Si-Se.

So l have a lot of feels coming in right next to each other there. Still Ne-Ti, l guess it would explain the ENFP feelings.

edit: UGH l see it listed in your post now, facepalm.


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## Jabberbroccoli (Mar 19, 2011)

DandyAndCheese said:


> I thought the Fi-Te was really me
> ...
> I’m just one person, there is only one true me. Being one-sided could help me be true to myself and always say what I want to say and never hide my true self.
> ...
> ...


The fact that none of you other people in this thread jumped to Xx-Fi-Te-Xx disappoints me. So much focus on being true to self, so few indicators of any Ti, I'd say we have a clear Fi. All the "logic" used was also low-order Te in support of Fi. I'm not quite sure whether the OP is Se or Ne, but Pe is always tough with this questionnaire. I think Ne is probably more likely all things considered. 

I'd say this is a solid *ENFP* typing. If there were any doubt in the typing, it would be in the Pe/Pi functions, the Fi is obviously high-order.


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## DandyAndCheese (Nov 16, 2012)

First of all, thanks to all of you who tried to help me type myself.

Now...

I'm still lost.

I understood that what I should be looking for first is not to understand myself, but to understand MBTI and functions.

The problem is, I don't understand them.

And I usually uderstand things ! So it's a great frustration for me.



The rest of the post is not a rant, really not, it's just my stream of conscionness trying to vent off the fact that, fuck, I just don't understand.




Tridentus said:


> Do you find yourself trying to validate your subjective feelings and values with what you think is universal logic more, or do you find yourself often trying to validate your subjective logic with what you feel are universal emotional values and concepts? if you've really taken the time to understand the functions and understand yourself, there should be a clear answer for you.
> 
> as an ENFP, i'm always very subjective in my values, i dislike being restricted in my own beliefs. Because my feelings are so subjective, because other people will not understand (they after all, not being me), so i often try to enhance and validate my feelings (when explaining them to friends, etc.) with a form of, what i perceive to be, objective logic which supports my personal feelings.
> 
> an ENTP would often do the opposite- an ENTP would often utilize a personal logic (hence the mad-scientist label, Ne + subjective logic), and when required to explain it, if they feel an audience would not appreciate or understand their own brand of personal logic, they will attempt to validate it with sets of "objective" values which support their judgement of a matter. reginald d. hunter being a perfect example, as he is always hilariously comparing his personal logical view of the world with his Fe sense of social values, and joking about the moments when he can't be bothered to validate his personal logic with objective values.


What I get from that, and from other sources as well is that the "e" is objective and "i" is subjective.
So ENFP would use Subjective Feeling and Objective thinking, and an ENTP the opposite.

So... A thinking type would use a Subjective thinking and thus subjective logic ? Isn't that what Fi is ? Using your values to understand and analyze a problem ?

And Objective feeling ? Ugh. This sounds so wrong to me. Robots ? How can a feeling be Objective by nature?

Also.

ENFP is suppose to be all Hippy-Pinkie Pie and ENTP, I don't... know Cocky Narcissistic unromantic... ? (http://personalitycafe.com/entp-forum-visionaries/3551-entp-stereotypes.html)

Then why would ENFP have Fi (Strong personal opinions) and ENTP Fe (behaving according to how the group would want him too) ?
It doesn't fit.
Same with the Ti vs Te, to a lesser extent.
Te is suppose to give orders, organize, rule with a strong fist (Think of ESTJ or ENTJ)
Ti seems way softer.
But ENFP have Te and ENTP have Ti.

...


...

I don't get it.


And it's not because I haven't searched!
I have, trust me!

but...

I can't find any facts or objective information about Ti vs Fi.
Everything is subjective, and that's annoying me.
Greatly.
(Is that Ti or Fi behavior?)
I also searched for Fi vs Fe.
It did not help.
(I/E)NTP vs (I/E) NFP ?
Neither.

I just don't get it.
How do you understand?

I'm suppose to think about my preference...
Preference in what ?
Values vs Logic ?
uh...
No, it depends.
Fi vs Fe vs Ti vs Te vs Ne vs Ni vs Se vs Si vs blablablabla.
From what I've read, and what I've read is probably wrong, but anyway, I use some parts of ALL of these functions.
"Yes, but you have a preference..."

If I do math, science I use Tx
If I am speaking with people I use Fx
If I think about politics, I use both, in different situations.

It depends on the situation, always.

As an example. (taken from MBTI - Thinking (Te vs. TI))


*Te - How is Thinking expressed when it is turned outward?**Extraverted Thinking's* focus is order. It is organizing and ordering the outside world; organizing both people and things to achieve a purpose. It is using logic and reasoning in dialogue with others. It is directing action, calling plays, and making decisions. It is purposeful sorting out; discriminating among alternatives. Extraverted Thinking asks questions, collects information in an orderly way, and solves problems in a systematic manner. *Extraverted Thinking (Te)* is dominant in ESTJ & ENTJ and supportive in ISTJ & INTJ personality types.


*Ti - How is Thinking experienced when it is turned inward?* The *Introverted Thinking* mind presumes logical order rules the Universe; illogic is dismissed as just so much mental clutter that needs to be swept out of the mind. Beliefs, understandings, and information is taken in and logically organized in clusters of thought, with principles at the foundation. It strives to fit new pieces of information into clusters of thought where it most logically fits. It sorts out and discriminates that which makes logical sense from that which does not. Like a detective, the Introverted Thinking mind is drawn to mysteries - seeking clues and root causes - to solve a problem or a riddle. *Introverted Thinking (Ti)* is dominant in ISTP & INTP and supportive in ESTP and ENTP personality types.

I don't see how one is the opposite of the other.

Ti does the Logic, Te applies it.
One is useless without the other.

Let's look at Fi vs Ti.

Ti is supposed to try to find the objective truth, stripping away layers of subjective point of views.
Fi is supposed to try to find the truth while weighting facts according to how it feels in its value system.

How it sounds to me.
Ti : Ignore parts of the truth.
Fi : Distort the truth.

Do I have a preference for one or the other ?
I don't think so.

Is my opinion wrong and based on bad information ?
PROBABLY! And this is why I'm asking you Jung lovers out there to help me see the greatness of functions that I just can't see right now.




This is what I've gotten from the MBTI in about half a year of knowing it.
Please help me find decent information, because that's what I understand right now, and I know that's wrong!


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## Tridentus (Dec 14, 2009)

@DandyAndCheese

it's incredibly difficult to explain unless you understand already, and i don't blame you for being confused, but i'll try to explain further on the back of your feedback.

so everything is essentially subjective, because every judgement is in essence a personal one. what i'm trying to imply with subjective/objective is that the Fe user often takes values from around them, being more open to family input, input from friends, input from society, etc. and use them to form what they believe is the best value system according to the information they've received, and what is best for the group/society they are involved in. an Fi user is much more likely to pick and choose values, and decide what values are best _for themselves_, like what do they identify with, etc. so for example an Fi user is much more likely to ignore the values bestowed on them from family at childhood and to be stubborn in following their own values, although an Fi user can also take it _upon themselves_ to decide that family values are important. this is why it's the _process_ that is the crucial element with identifying functions, not the end product. in this way, Fe users love to latch onto the concept of groups and group values/identity (latching their individuality onto outside things), and Fi users tend to attribute their values/identity much more as an individual (often even whilst in a group). the end result, in terms of how a person behaves, and the decisions they make, can correlate, so it's important to focus on the process instead to understand the differences.

in terms of thinking and feeling, no values are hardly ever associated with thinking functions. Ti is most concerned with personal logic, so logical ideas and logical ways of thinking about things which are very personal. you can always spot a Ti comedian (usually ENTP), because they're using their own brand of "twisted logic" to make people laugh. again it's important to think about the process when differentiating functions. Te by contrast attempts to find a wholistic logical analysis of events, it's not just about finding a logical way of thinking about things that makes sense to yourself, it's about finding a logical analysis which should (at least in the user's mind) be empirically true and accepted by all, because you haven't been subjective at all but instead tried to find an objective truth- of course in reality there is no such thing. again it's important to focus on the process, because the two functions can arrive at the same logical deduction sometimes, even though through different processes.

what i was talking about with the Fi Te balance in ENFPs was this.. an ENFP usually feels their values in their gut, some of our values are almost inevitable and some are decided by us when trying to sort out what we think is right and wrong whilst we are alone, but out and about in the world we react instinctively with an inexplicable gut reaction. thing is, when explaining why you took a decision, or why you feel a certain way about something, it's difficult to just say "because it felt right" since you kind of feel like that's an easily questionable answer.. so sometimes ENFPs will just say that and hope the person accepts it, but often we will try to make our values seem more valid by trying to use our relatively weak (but strong in our eyes, after all everyone thinks they're right) sense of objective logic to explain a decision beyond what seem like vague feelings. for example, i might buy a set of clothes because i feel like buying it, my value system says that even though my student budget is poor and i can't afford it, it's ok because i really want it and my values dictate that if i really want something it's worth buying (another ENFP can feel differently, remember process not end product), but when my friend questions why i bought it i won't respond with the real answer; that it simply feels ok, therefore it is ok.. i'll try to validate my reasons by saying "well clothes can last forever, and therefore it doesn't matter whether i buy it today or later", an objective logical conclusion. an ENTP will do vice versa, they will have personal logical deductions about something, and will sometimes figure other people will feel their deductions are too devoid of feelings, and will therefore resort to finding group values to validate their conclusion, even though that's not really how they made that decision/formed that opinion. that's just a particular reference point to hopefully help you pinpoint your type.


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## DandyAndCheese (Nov 16, 2012)

Tridentus said:


> @_DandyAndCheese_
> 
> it's incredibly difficult to explain unless you understand already, and i don't blame you for being confused, but i'll try to explain further on the back of your feedback.
> 
> ...



I guess I use Fi more, in your description...
The Ti vs Te is still baffling me...
And I'm not sure I identify with your clothes buying examples...

But it was really interesting, thanks for trying to help me again!


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## Tridentus (Dec 14, 2009)

DandyAndCheese said:


> I guess I use Fi more, in your description...
> The Ti vs Te is still baffling me...
> And I'm not sure I identify with your clothes buying examples...
> 
> But it was really interesting, thanks for trying to help me again!


the clothes buying thing was just a random example to contextualize it. and you're welcome!


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## Kalimar (Mar 21, 2013)

DandyAndCheese said:


> I guess I use Fi more, in your description...
> The Ti vs Te is still baffling me...
> And I'm not sure I identify with your clothes buying examples...
> 
> But it was really interesting, thanks for trying to help me again!


As I understand it, Te is about structuring and organising the external world efficiently and seeking the factual truth about information by evaluating it against empirical evidence and (in theory) indisputable logic.

Ti is about structuring the knowledge in terms of one's own network of concepts, ideas and definitions to determine the truth from within the mind. Ti is more 'subjective' in nature - it is logical, but one's line of reasoning is not always as straight as a Te user would employ, as it is internally driven. It is also less detail-oriented.

A Ti dominant often comes to one's own personal conclusion on a topic, whereas a Te dominant would come to the conclusion best substantiated by the evidence.

I would say you show more Te - you say 'facts are facts' and that you can't find objective facts on Ti v Fi annoys you. "I try to make sure everything is planned, in control, and that everybody does his job. It could help me, not loose so much time finding my things, and avoid big rushes of work." - is also Te to me as it is about structuring the external world in several ways. 

I would also say you show more Fi than Fe. Little of your commentary is about how you make other people feel more comfortable or better in a social setting (which is what Fe is about) - it's really all about how you feel and what your values are. "Well, yeah, but it's not about how a toaster work or my next chemistry exam, it's about my feelings, always. Like how I feel about different girls, or how I see the future." supports this. 

Whilst I'm not saying ENFP is certainly the answer for you, I'm not sure ENTP is based on the functions. The relative lack of commentary to indicate either sensing function could reflect its inferior use in ENFP.


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## DandyAndCheese (Nov 16, 2012)

Kalimar said:


> As I understand it, Te is about structuring and organising the external world efficiently and seeking the factual truth about information by evaluating it against empirical evidence and (in theory) indisputable logic.
> 
> Ti is about structuring the knowledge in terms of one's own network of concepts, ideas and definitions to determine the truth from within the mind. Ti is more 'subjective' in nature - it is logical, but one's line of reasoning is not always as straight as a Te user would employ, as it is internally driven. It is also less detail-oriented.
> 
> ...


Interesting.

*"A Ti dominant often comes to one's own personal conclusion on a topic, whereas a Te dominant would come to the conclusion best substantiated by the evidence."
* Well... that should be the same!

*"Little of your commentary is about how you make other people feel more comfortable or better in a social setting" .* 
My goal is not to make others feel better, but if I make others feel bad, then I will feel bad, and if I make them feel good, I'll feel very, very, very good about it...
Well, come to think of it, I want to make others feel better then...
I've been told I set great moods.
Bad moods make me feel uneasy...
But do I really have to stand with group values to make people feel better and the group have a better mood?
I don't think so.

The problem that I get from these explanations on Ti and Fi is that what I keep in mind after reading them is :
Fi users are jerks and don't want to make other feel better and only think about themselves
Ti users use thinking in a wrong way by using flawed logic.

But that doesn't match ENTP vs ENFP stereotypes, it should be quite the opposite, actually...


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## Jabberbroccoli (Mar 19, 2011)

ENTPs are usually thought of as jerks much moreso than ENFPs. You seem to have your stereotypes wrong.

Responding to your last few posts, your posting style itself reflects low-order Te and a Fi-Te judgement axis. I haven't really been active on the forums lately to know who are still reliably typed ENTPs, I'm here because Ark tagged me in. I'll just go ahead and throw a few Ti-users I've seen while reading through the forums today. They may be able to pick out the lack of Ti with more precision than I. @The Proof @OMG WTF BRO @Tharwen @SputnikExperiment @NT the DC @Tyrant
Do some fucking Ti things so I can pay more attention to the class I'm in right now instead of bothering with how to explain Ti vs Fi and how OP is missing the whole Ti bit, kthnx.


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## LadyO.W.BernieBro (Sep 4, 2010)

*rants about how the term ''introverted extravert'' is logically inconsistent*


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## NT the DC (May 31, 2012)

I don't like to type people, most people get all offended that you don't agree with their conclusion and argue against you.
However I'll comment that the quote from @*Jabberbroccoli* seems correct.
You're way too focused on others and controlling the external environment for a Ti.
Also seem too emo to be a T dom/aux.


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