# Girls/women of which type tend to be the most 'ditzy'?



## The Nameless Composer (Sep 20, 2014)

Girls/women of which type tend to be the most 'ditzy'? Like bubbly, jovial, flitty, but also sort of 'princessy', squeals and shrieks a lot, talks in a very expressive, maybe gossipy (but not necessarily), affected manner? Or sort of like the stereotypical gay queen type. I know these are sort of stereotypes (that might be a bit offensive to some), but I think there's some truth to them. You'd think any of the Fe types, maybe Fe/Se? ESFP and ESFJ would probably come to mind.
I notice INFP women are seldom like this. It's mostly SFs I think.


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## dracula (Apr 5, 2015)

Based on my experience ESFXs although it's not too dependent on the type, I know one ISTJ like this for example. I was a bit like that at one point (nowadays I get shivers when I think about it), which contradicts the ENTP stereotype - also my ENTJ friend had some similar characteristics at the same time as I did but we both grew out of it quite fast.


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## niss (Apr 25, 2010)

ExFx


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## niss (Apr 25, 2010)

draculaoverlord said:


> ...I know one ISTJ like this for example....


I would expect to find that this person has been mis-typed.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

The Nameless Composer said:


> Girls/women of which type tend to be the most 'ditzy'? Like bubbly, jovial, flitty, but also sort of 'princessy', squeals and shrieks a lot, talks in a very expressive, maybe gossipy (but not necessarily), affected manner? Or sort of like the stereotypical gay queen type. I know these are sort of stereotypes (that might be a bit offensive to some), but I think there's some truth to them. You'd think any of the Fe types, maybe Fe/Se? ESFP and ESFJ would probably come to mind.
> I notice INFP women are seldom like this. It's mostly SFs I think.


Which type tends to act ditzy, or actually IS ditzy? And why would you think this is type specific? Type is just one part of a much more complex picture that makes up a human being. To think you can attribute every infinitesimal characteristic to a person's MBTI type is kind of silly, not to mention typist.


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## dracula (Apr 5, 2015)

niss said:


> I would expect to find that this person has been mis-typed.


Type doesn't justify every action of a person and because of those characteristics it took ages for me and my friend to realize she's an ISTJ. She otherwise matches the description and the functions go well with her personality, she's just insecure and shows it that way I guess. She tries to appear extraverted as it is somehow "approved" amongst the people we deal with and fails to act naturally due to that. She shares a lot of similarities with the other ISTJs I know though.


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## Zosio (Mar 17, 2015)

As many posters have mentioned, any type is prone to being a ditz. 

For example: I'm an INFJ. I'm not necessarily a "ditz", but I am oblivious to my surroundings to the point where I can seem like a ditz. Losing items that I had only just set down, not remembering a conversation that happened two hours ago, etc. 

I suppose it all depends on what you would consider a ditz. I've worked with S-types who probably thought that I was an idiot for being unable to get with the program where S-things were concerned (having Se as my 4th and Si as my 8th makes me about the least-S type there is). Even other Ns can think that I'm absent-minded because having Ni as my top function and Ti as my third makes it very difficult for me to properly articulate my thoughts.


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## The Nameless Composer (Sep 20, 2014)

tanstaafl28 said:


> Which type tends to act ditzy, or actually IS ditzy? And why would you think this is type specific? Type is just one part of a much more complex picture that makes up a human being. To think you can attribute every infinitesimal characteristic to a person's MBTI type is kind of silly, not to mention typist.


This isn't 'infinitesimal', I would say type is a pretty good indicator. I know many INFPs IRL, and none of them act anything LIKE this. Of course type is one thing, but this is one area where I am fairly sure it has a big impact. Well that's how I see it , anyway, you're free to disagree.

Just can't see an INTJ acting this way unless there was a good reason or they were pretending to be someone they're not.


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## selena87 (Aug 15, 2014)

Yes I can totally believe that an ISTJ can act like this. I once did the same too. She probably thinks that this behaviour is expected from her. It's just an act to get accepted when you feel insecure, you know, act like a normal girl and hide the fact that you're "weird"


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## niss (Apr 25, 2010)

draculaoverlord said:


> Type doesn't justify every action of a person and because of those characteristics it took ages for me and my friend to realize she's an ISTJ. She otherwise matches the description and the functions go well with her personality, she's just insecure and shows it that way I guess. She tries to appear extraverted as it is somehow "approved" amongst the people we deal with and fails to act naturally due to that. She shares a lot of similarities with the other ISTJs I know though.


I don't believe MBTI is an end-all to understanding personalities and typing, but there are some strong indicators as to type, within some specific behaviors. You are wise to see that people of differing types can express behaviors not in keeping with their type. However, bubbly, expressive, ditzy, etc., are so far removed from a Si Te way of thinking and expressing themselves, as to cast doubt on the accuracy of the typing. Similar to someone claiming to be an ISTJ E7 - some things are mutually exclusive.


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## dracula (Apr 5, 2015)

selena87 said:


> Yes I can totally believe that an ISTJ can act like this. I once did the same too. She probably thinks that this behaviour is expected from her. It's just an act to get accepted when you feel insecure, you know, act like a normal girl and hide the fact that you're "weird"


She wants to hide the fact that she obeys the rules etc to the extent where she might seem boring by wilder people. At least that's y theory. She's enneagram type 6, which means that she needs to have security and support and apparently seeming interesting by pretending to be someone else is her key to this - when she came to our school we still had a very evident hierarchy where the popular ones were extraverted, pretty, seemed a dumb or indifferent towards education yet got good scores and liked to disregard rules and spend the weekends partying somewhere. Because she was uncomfortable with most of these she chose the ditzy approach and still somewhat maintains it despite the social hierarchy having diminished almost completely. She's more down-to-earth nowadays though.

Edit: @niss , apparently I actually responded before seeing your newest post. Her enneagram explains a lot and due to her coming to a social setting where nearly everyone knew each other she apparently chose the approach to get the security she desired by ultimately having someone who mattered to take her under her wing. She's much more like a "stereotypical" ISTJ nowadays.


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## selena87 (Aug 15, 2014)

niss said:


> However, bubbly, expressive, ditzy, etc., are so far removed from a Si Te way of thinking and expressing themselves, as to cast doubt on the accuracy of the typing.


On the contrary, I think it's a pretty Te way to put on an act to gain advantages (in this case being accepted/social status). Acting ditzy doesn't mean that she is REALLY ditzy :wink:


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## niss (Apr 25, 2010)

selena87 said:


> On the contrary, I think it's a pretty Te way to put on an act to gain advantages (in this case being accepted/social status). Acting ditzy doesn't mean that she is REALLY ditzy :wink:


An act is not something perpetuated continually. An act is not who we are.


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## chanteuse (May 30, 2014)

sometimes it's an act, a front.

i've learned not to dismiss ppl seemingly ditzy. more often than not, upon further acquaintance, many had surprised me with their wit, insights, and raw intelligence. 

"Legally Blond" anyone?

if such outward expression is based on bitchiness or cattiness, it's not hard to tell. those who are genuinely unguarded and scattered are really endearing. I'd take these ppl anytime than the selfish/self serving ones behind a calculated niceness.


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## Tetsuo Shima (Nov 24, 2014)

ESFPs are usually the stereotypical dumb blonde chicks.


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## aendern (Dec 28, 2013)

If you mean the stereotypical valley girl trope (gay queen, as you put it), I would expect that most from an Se dom. (ESFP, ESTP).

ESFP is more of the endearing, dumb blonde ^ as the poster above me put it.

ESTP is more of the catty gay queen that you're talking about.

I have noticed ENFJs also putting on this guise, but to me it always comes off as phony and forced. I suspect it probably is. I think it has to do with Fe wanting to be appealing to others. And maybe playing the valley girl ditz is, in their mind, cute or something. And they want to portray that.

I have noticed, too, that ENFJs are very likely to play dumb to get people to like them. Dumb is very non-threatening and can be endearing. 


You see Oprah doing this all the time. It works, too. It makes her look adorable and so sweet. But, I mean, you can tell she's faking it though. She's putting on an act for her audience. On and off stage. ENFJs love to do that kind of stuff. Exaggerate. Blow things out of proportion to illicit desired emotional effect or what have you.

edit:

And if we're going to talk tropes, I will mention all ExFx types since it seems to be common opinion that they are all like this. In my opinion, they are not. 

ENFJ I have already described. She plays a ditz sometimes to get you to like her. She's not a real ditz. She's deceiving you.

ENFP is very much your tree-hugger hippy ditz. Not your blonde Barbie ditz. ENFPs are big into activist type things, spreading awareness of issues you've never even heard of or considered. They can be spiritual and be drawn to ideas about everyone being connected. Very idealistic people. A bit detached from reality due to being so idealistic. And in that way, you could call them a bit ditzy.

ESFJ is more of like a mother hen. She's so sweet. She wants to watch her little chicks succeed. And she wants to help them in any way she can. I really wouldn't call her a ditz. She may be uncaring about larger social issues (usually she totally is), but she is very down-to-earth about things that happen on her home front. Again, would really not call her a ditz. She doesn't even play one on TV. She's just sweet and genuine, imo.


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

I wouldn't call myself "ditzy",but I do act like that sometimes,some people trigger that reaction in me,it's like they need a ditz in their life.And also I sometimes just pretend I don't know something I actually know,but I wouldn't consider that ditzy maybe,because it doesn't involve exaggerating but it's related.I can at times also play "smart",but I don't really care whether someone sees me as smart or not,I'm literally just playing when I do that,or I'm just annoying someone annoying


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## Gossip Goat (Nov 19, 2013)

I'm pretty sure I'm perceived as a ditz because of how I act. It's usually because I may come across as serious and shy and to over compensate I act super bubbly, funny and girly and thats usually accompanied with being a ditz. Some of my interests have a bad reputation (like watching KUWTK), so yeah that doesn't help.


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## The Nameless Composer (Sep 20, 2014)

Many many people are mis-typed. I'd wager a good 40% of people online are.


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## The Nameless Composer (Sep 20, 2014)

draculaoverlord said:


> She wants to hide the fact that she obeys the rules etc to the extent where she might seem boring by wilder people. At least that's y theory. She's enneagram type 6, which means that she needs to have security and support and apparently seeming interesting by pretending to be someone else is her key to this - when she came to our school we still had a very evident hierarchy where the popular ones were extraverted, pretty, seemed a dumb or indifferent towards education yet got good scores and liked to disregard rules and spend the weekends partying somewhere. Because she was uncomfortable with most of these she chose the ditzy approach and still somewhat maintains it despite the social hierarchy having diminished almost completely. She's more down-to-earth nowadays though.
> 
> Edit: @niss , apparently I actually responded before seeing your newest post. Her enneagram explains a lot and due to her coming to a social setting where nearly everyone knew each other she apparently chose the approach to get the security she desired by ultimately having someone who mattered to take her under her wing. She's much more like a "stereotypical" ISTJ nowadays.


Oh I can definitely believe an thinker, even an introverted thinker, could behave this way, but it would be much less likely. The fact she was still young and trying to fit in is obviously a huge factor. You say she's more stereotypically ISTJ nowadays. A lot of people of all types mature a bit as they grow older.


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## The Nameless Composer (Sep 20, 2014)

Great description @emberfly! I guess with Oprah and a lot of talk show hosts a lot of it is an act. Yeah I agree with xSFJs being the more 'maternal', 'caregiving', 'protector/nurturer' types, while ESFP or ESTP are seen as a bit more reckless, irresponsible.


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## Unfey (Apr 8, 2013)

The Nameless Composer said:


> I notice INFP women are seldom like this. It's mostly SFs I think.


I agree that very few INFPs do this. But it's not because we're less ditzy than other women-- we're probably more ditzy, if anything. The "ditzy" thing is an act. Smart, ambitious, talented girls often act "ditzy" to fit in and move up in a society that values sweetness and emotional virginity in females more than raw dominance. Girls act "ditzy" for a number of reasons. First of all, it's fun. Acting ditzy with your friends is a sign that you trust them enough to let down your guard and make stupid mistakes. It's a form of bonding among friends, and a display of trust. "Ditzy" also means laughing a lot, which releases endorphins.

Acting ditzy in public is actually, if you think about it, a tremendous display of confidence, dominance, and power. It shows you are confident enough and feel secure enough in your social position to put on the ditzy act in front of people you _haven't _bonded with, which effectively conveys the message: "I am above all of you. My friendships and alliances are secure and no one can touch me." 

Some girls who act this way grow out of it when they get older and move into a different sort of world-- a more corporate, businesslike world-- and they adapt their behavior to better serve their purposes. Other girls don't grow out of it, because acting bubbly and princessy suits their personalities and makes them feel fulfilled and happy. And other girls don't grow out of it because they peaked in high school and it's all they know how to do. These girls all become soccer moms and live together in a little bubble of eternal petty high-school drama for the rest of their lives.

Anyone from any type can put on the "ditzy" act as a social adaptation or a way to have fun. I know my female friends and I used to get together and ditz out. We listened to Taylor Swift-- I didn't even like Taylor Swift-- tried on each others jeans, willingly and knowingly ate so many brownies we got sick, and pretended not to know what we were talking about-- pretended to make stupid mistakes and be less intelligent-- just to make eachother laugh. One of those friends is an INTJ who went to Columbia and is studying Russian History and Economics. She's the smartest of all of us but she acted the stupidest. She's so talented and has so many job offers already. Another friend, an ESFP, is now a ballet dancer, and still as ditzy and bubbly as ever. that's just her personality. But her ambition, passion, and commitment is serious. 

I'm an INFP. I never really acted 'princess' ditzy. Honestly, most of my ditziness wasn't really an act. I often pretended to be stupider and less aware than I was as a gag, or to seem nonthreatening and pleasant. My 'ditzy' was Luna Lovegood ditzy, and most of it was authentic. But even still, underneath, I've always been ambitious, I've always been extremely internally serious, and I've always been very strategic in how I choose my allies.

Ditzy girls aren't always silly girls. Ditzy girls pretend not to know the rules of the game, but they know what they're doing, and they play their cards strategically.


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## Dangerose (Sep 30, 2014)

My ENTJ friend will 'play' ditzy. I honestly can't tell if it is a calculated way of talking to seem appealing, or if she just falls into that pattern. It's kinda funny because she's a very intelligent person, she studies computer programming and is really not very girly or emotional. Actually, she is a shallow person in some ways, just opposite ways from the 'ditzy' thing. At any rate, it works out very well for her; guys flock around her in hordes and people see her as very fragile and in need of help so they do her lots of favors. I try to copy this sometimes, and it's kinda fun actually, but I can't really pull it off that well and I get tired of it.


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## The Nameless Composer (Sep 20, 2014)

@Unfey Yeah it can be an act, I think some groups girls will tend to be this way because well, SJs tend to dominate, and naturally other types will sort of follow them. I think a lot of girls and young women have been socialised to be this way. I've noticed there are ads showing grown women acting really childishly. It's ironic, in some ways men are seen as the more childish, in other ways, women are. I think some are really like this, and some put on an act. I think women sometimes act different one on one, or with a male friend, unless they're really close, but I don't relate to the purposely acting dumb, I find it a bit offputting. Well one thing to be goofy and silly, but being deliberately obtuse?

Don't know if being ditzy in public shows more confidence. I'd say the opposite, if anything. Acting dumb is a way for some women (think of Marilyn Monroe in her roles) to appeal to men, so shows INsecurity, if anything. Most strong women DON'T act like ditzes to get ahead.


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## The Nameless Composer (Sep 20, 2014)

Oswin said:


> My ENTJ friend will 'play' ditzy. I honestly can't tell if it is a calculated way of talking to seem appealing, or if she just falls into that pattern. It's kinda funny because she's a very intelligent person, she studies computer programming and is really not very girly or emotional. Actually, she is a shallow person in some ways, just opposite ways from the 'ditzy' thing. At any rate, it works out very well for her; guys flock around her in hordes and people see her as very fragile and in need of help so they do her lots of favors. I try to copy this sometimes, and it's kinda fun actually, but I can't really pull it off that well and I get tired of it.


MBTI isn't the only predictor, but it still IS, imo. She could've been socialised or modelled that behaviour on her sister/mother/peers. She could've learned that that was a way to get male attention, as you describe.


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## AphexTwin (Apr 7, 2015)

ESFX's.
No offense. But some dumb asf.


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## Unfey (Apr 8, 2013)

The Nameless Composer said:


> Don't know if being ditzy in public shows more confidence. I'd say the opposite, if anything. Acting dumb is a way for some women (think of Marilyn Monroe in her roles) to appeal to men, so shows INsecurity, if anything. Most strong women DON'T act like ditzes to get ahead.


The ditz act is not something women do to 'appeal to men.' Very few things women do are for men. Girls act more ditzy and dumb when they're in all-female groups than they do when guys are around, because often, guys don't understand that "ditzy" is an act and don't know how to behave to fit in. Girls usually tone it down for guys, actually.

Strong women act however strong women want to act. 

Additionally, 'strong women' are not the only women who deserve respect. Women who seem ditzy or princessy are often kind, clever, brave, ambitious, funny, and willful. Our society has conditioned us to see women who act extremely effeminate as unintelligent or weak. This is because society values traditionally masculine qualities-- seriousness, straightforwardness, etc.-- and teaches us that these qualities are desirable and normal. The qualities that are often dominant in female relationships are undervalued. We are taught that extremely effeminate or 'ditzy' behavior is 'dumb' or perhaps even 'slutty'. 

Women who act very ditzy and effeminate are just as valuable and important as women who act 'strong'. _Men_ who act very effeminate are also just as valuable and important as men who act 'strong'. It's not about showing "insecurity." It's about bonding, and yes, it's about displaying confidence.


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## The Nameless Composer (Sep 20, 2014)

Unfey said:


> The ditz act is not something women do to 'appeal to men.' Very few things women do are for men. Girls act more ditzy and dumb when they're in all-female groups than they do when guys are around, because often, guys don't understand that "ditzy" is an act and don't know how to behave to fit in. Girls usually tone it down for guys, actually.
> 
> Strong women act however strong women want to act.
> 
> ...


I know you'd like to think so, but a lot of things we do are for other people, including the opposite sex. There's hundreds of years of history of men valuing these coy, silly, girls, and of men wanting to be more intelligent than their wife or partner. Sure, many women don't act like this, but it's a trope that's part of a lot of human societies and cultures.

How far would Hillary Clinton, a judge, or a CEO who was a woman get if she acted all silly, forgetting things, and batting her eyelashes or whatever to make it all okay? Are you being serious? I wasn't saying how strong women should or should not act, I'm saying that's how strong women tend to act, strong as in what we consider strong in our society, which one might argue values competition etc.

Plus although some men and society in general might value this, but who said that's the definition of 'femininity'? What is femininity anyway? Acting like Marilyn Monroe or Jane Mansfield or Elle Woods in 'Legally Blonde' or any other stereotype you'd like to mention? Isn't that a rather condescending image of what femininity is? Like women who don't know any better, just act all airheaded and silly? I'm not saying they deserve less respect as people, but if you're a doctor or a lawyer and you act that way, people are going to respect you less as a professional. You can be 'feminine' without acting like that, I hardly think of Audrey Hepburn or Grace Kelly (yes I do like my old films) as ditzy. 

And you conflating ditziness with being feminine sort of paints most women like that, when plenty of women aren't. Maybe your friends are - I notice it especially among groups of women who tend to be friends - but most of my female friends do not behave this way in general. My contention is that INFP women are LESS likely to behave this way, and observation and what they've said has supported this. 

Mind you that's not say they can be a bit silly, playful, or goofy, but that's different from what I'm talking about here.


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## Unfey (Apr 8, 2013)

The Nameless Composer said:


> I know you'd like to think so, but a lot of things we do are for other people, including the opposite sex. There's hundreds of years of history of men valuing these coy, silly, girls, and of men wanting to be more intelligent than their wife or partner. Sure, many women don't act like this, but it's a trope that's part of a lot of human societies and cultures.
> 
> How far would Hillary Clinton, a judge, or a CEO who was a woman get if she acted all silly, forgetting things, and batting her eyelashes or whatever to make it all okay? Are you being serious? I wasn't saying how strong women should or should not act, I'm saying that's how strong women tend to act, strong as in what we consider strong in our society, which one might argue values competition etc.
> 
> ...



No. What I mean is that this 'ditzy' thing is a stereotypically female way of behavior and communication. It's unfair to make assumptions about the personalities and abilities of women who behave this way, and society is wrong to place higher values on masculine expressions of power (seriousness, 'competition', as you put it).
You are right that INFP women are less likely to behave flamboyantly effeminate, because INFPs tend not to care as much about how they fit in. It doesn't make INFPs smarter or more serious than any other types. INFP women are not better or more respectable for ignoring social norms.


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## StableSun35 (Oct 14, 2013)

Terrible topic. Women are already expected to walk a terribly thin line as to what is acceptable in behavior and dress, please don’t perpetuate that any sort of type is better or worse than another. There is good and bad to every person, men and women.


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## The Nameless Composer (Sep 20, 2014)

Unfey said:


> No. What I mean is that this 'ditzy' thing is a stereotypically female way of behavior and communication. It's unfair to make assumptions about the personalities and abilities of women who behave this way, and society is wrong to place higher values on masculine expressions of power (seriousness, 'competition', as you put it).
> You are right that INFP women are less likely to behave flamboyantly effeminate, because INFPs tend not to care as much about how they fit in. It doesn't make INFPs smarter or more serious than any other types. INFP women are not better or more respectable for ignoring social norms.


Oh yeah, of course, we can't assume, a lot of women who come across as ditzy are really intelligent, serious.etc, though I'm just saying I find it hard to imagine Maggie Thatcher giggling with her girlfriends over something, though who knows, maybe she did a bit. I know girls - including my sister - who appear like a typical pretty girl, who people would think would act ditzy, who aren't ditzy at all though.


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