# The burning fire of hate and love within the male INFP - please help me understand.



## MrAdder (Feb 24, 2010)

This is my first long post after struggling with finding my type for 2 years. I think I am home now. Now step 2.. dealing with myself. Please help me to explain how my cognitive functions play tricks on me based on the below. 

I am not a fairy princess. 

I am not fluffy, I am not pink; 
still I am INFP. 

I have difficulties relating to the usual descriptions of the INFP. The one provided at personalitypage.com has its moments. I can sense it is me, but with some sort of foggy lens. 

If you asked people who had met me for the first time I would probably have come across as a selfconfident, quite intelligent and well groomed person. I look good, I can behave, I can hold a job and I can be successful. I can come across as very serious and reliable with an enormous insight. 

At least in the eyes of others. At first encounter I think very few people would identify me as an infp. Also after knowing me for a while, many people would fail to make such an identification. Unless they get close to me and make me open up. If my wife understood what an infp was, she would probably never classify me as one based on any description available on the internet. She would probably not report me as a person who easily can talk about feelings. 

Inside I have a burning fire. I was not really contiously aware of it until very recently when I suddenly connected my strong internal feelings with Fi. This magic feature, which few have been able to capture and convey in an accurate manner; or is it maybe me who hasnt captured the definition in the outside world and been able to relate it to the fire within me? 

As long I can remember, I have had this burning fire inside me. It could make me sacrifice my life for a cause strong enough. Tremendous passion, love & hate.

Had I lived during the WWII, I would have been the soldier who had thrown myself into the German bunker with a handgrenade to save my pluton. 

But the fire is two-fold. It is not necessarily directed towards good causes. Fi does not seem to necessary only be about love. It can also be about hate. And it is the hate that eats you from the inside. The hate for anyone who threatens you, competes with you or steps on your values.

I have started wondering if I even listen to what people say. I rather feel sympathy, disgust or content. I would usually have difficulties recalling details of an event or what was said, I only remember how I felt. Was it good or was it bad. Sometimes, however, when I am in "the zone", then suddenly I see myself remembering the tiniest incident or fact to the decimal. 

The only thing it takes to be liked by me, is to like me. The only thing it takes to be resented by me, is not to adore me or exclude me if I feel I have the natural right in a group to be at the top. 

In the 4-9 grade I was a bully. I was using strategies to set my agenda and behaved in an awful way in order to push down those who were threatening me. The driving force was hate. But was it hate for myself or was I only scared? It was my way of taking control, winning the battles and setting the agenda. 

As a leader I am an awful person; I behave in a controlling manner and am using a very directing style for the people who cannot live up to my standards and doesnt adore me for being the most fantastic person on earth. 

People who do exactly as I say, adore me and doesnt violate my values and demands for honesty love me. I have collaborated extremely well with ISTJ girls in work situations. So well that one from my past asked me to apply for a position as her manager and one recently told me that she was willing to apply for any job if she could have me as a manager. 

However, inside me I belive myself to be a good person. I almost get anxiety from killing flies and spiders. I believe in self sacrifice, both in small and big. I might even feel strong passionate anger inside if someone tries to get ahead in a que. 

(Reservations could potentially be made here. I am not sure it is whether I am afraid of killing flies in fear of there existing a possibility for a judging force somewhere (!!))

At the end of the day.. I just want to be liked. :sad:


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## demonfart (Jun 23, 2011)

Hatred? I have some of those too. they twist and pull the health out of me.
People would tell me that I exceed their expectations. and If I fail those expectations, i'll try my best not to care but I *REALLY* do.









> The hate for anyone who threatens you, competes with you or steps on your values.


I feel that too, and its what puts me into competition. Somehow I've accepted the fact that life isn't always about rainbows and butterflies. There will be wars and battlegrounds too. I would always remember what you did to hurt me, and it may not leave me. If I forgive you, don't expect it will be the same as before. and I'll do the same. I might become cold to you now. I guess time will change that. I haven't lived long enough to know if my feelings change towards those who steps on me.

I felt misunderstood for a while, I mean, I tried listening to all of you. _(some people ><)_ but how come you never give me a chance to listen to what I have to say? I offer an ear, an opinion, and my heart. and you guys give me crumbs of my own begging. So yeah, it makes me feel powerless, and its against my values. I now have to choose between you and that value. This is like a rant reply. But reading your post gave me air to breathe in. I always have to keep it in. My sadness towards the unfair tolerance of _(some people ><)_

I never bullied though, I was the one who preferred to get hit, than to hit others.
In my elementary years, I was the silent person, people labeled me as a loner, but i'm just really in my dream mode all the time.
I wanted to do things in my mind. Like drugs, they're just so real. *not that I tried drugs btw*

and theres also a yes with people who do exactly what I advice them to do, they respect me, the respect I try to take from others, because they have ignored me. I think I sound bitter. but I'm not really. it is a rapport of my disappointment. 

Because even though the INFP is a known procrastinator, I have worked hard and did what they say. Yet, it wasn't enough.

This is how I learned not to expect happiness from others. That you can't please everyone, and nobody's perfect.

but who cares now, I'm just so hurt, im so tired of it. 

I'll focus on me for now. 
then someday. I will find you. my flowered garden in the middle of nowhere. somehow, I now manage to find the people whom I can find solitude to. you just got to appreciate that after all those years in misery T^T

and at the end of the day. I just want to be liked too .


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## Up and Away (Mar 5, 2011)

I'm too self absorbed to read this. Not sure if that makes me INFP. But I've got too much damn FIRE mon! Can't calm down to read all that!

*brings out slede hammer and smashes ice sculpture

oh no... it was so nice looking.

*shrugs and walks off


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## ThornyBones (Jun 25, 2011)

YES! the fire! i've felt it my whole life too.
I stop and I wonder what it even is but I just have this unexplainable passion aflame in my heart pushing and pulling me towards beauty and truth, love, and then a crashing hatred for the unsincere, the liars, the bigots, misjustice. ARGH ARGH ARGH.
I feel at times I don't even need food to survive, because only my passion truely sustains and brings me life.


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## MrAdder (Feb 24, 2010)

demonfart said:


> I feel that too, and its what puts me into competition.


I have the same thread under another topic. If you search for it you might read a post I just wrote regarding competition and how I combated it.


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## a space whale (Jul 12, 2011)

@MrAdder I think you need to clarify exactly what you are asking, but I suppose that's the Pness approach. In that case, I offer some ideas to the 'discussion,' gleaned from what you revealed:

1) Cognitive functions playing tricks? I see no tricks. Personality makes up only part of your character, your "being" as an individual. Other important factors include: physique/appearance, background/upbringing, family/relations and education/experience.

Everything you have said for example, could be explained by your being an INFP in an otherwise imposing and/or attractive physique. Whatever you think of it, the FACT is that appearance will get you a wife, will enable you to bully and will inspire others to follow your lead -- all things that INFPs typically have difficulty achieving. This theory is easy for you confirm deny, my next one not so much:

2) Seems that you have a bit of this raging hate for your personality, possibly annoyed with your "misfortune" or at the very least dissatisfied with the function toolkit you got for your birthday. Perhaps, as above, you wish you had a personality more in line with what people expect from your appearance? I dunno, hard to tell without more details about your life.

But if this is the case, then so what? You want consolation or coddling or something similarly self-destructive? Evidently I'm not very useful for that sort of business and so normally I wouldn't say anything, but you didn't post this in the INFP section. So am I free to interpret "help me to explain how my cognitive functions play tricks" as "explain what the beejesus is going on in my head" ?

The stupid and short sighted thinker sees the unstable feeler burning up in their own self-righteousness and observes, what a joke.

The strategic thinker sees the same and retorts, if the "inner burning fire" temperaments are just a joke, then they would have been eliminated through evolutionary survival long long ago. Perhaps it's a rare/mutated jumble of traits, but I doubt it. No, the simple solution is that melancholics offer something to society, something we only need a little bit of (in terms of individuals), but critical none the less.

Look, if you pay any attention to how life (all life, not just humans) works at all, you quickly notice that the forces at work don't really care about how we view/feel about the situation. Our bodies manipulate us with copious amounts of pain, stress, anxiety and yes, the "burning fire," to get us to do the things we need to survive.

So if you follow me up till now, the obvious question is, what is this amazing thing the INFPs have to offer? Well I leave that up to you to discover (google). Hint: it's not about smothering grenades. Try instead examining the lives of certain musicians / artists...INFPs tend to be poor when it comes to firing in the moment, so they typically become well known through different channels.


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## MrAdder (Feb 24, 2010)

@a space whale 

Thanks Space Whale. 

I appreciate you took the time to submit an elaborate response to my thread. 

Indeed you are bringing in a very important perspective to the discussion. I have posted this text both here and in the INFP forum. In this forum I am interested in perspectives on reasons behind my behaviour (good and bad, good and evil) which not necessarily resembles the behaviour of the prototype INFP. Can some of the functions be playing tricks on me – the tertiary or the inferior? Can an undeveloped auxiliary be contributing to who I am and keeping me away from self actualisation? 

It took me roughly two years to fully understand and accept that I am an INFP. I am very lucky. Many people with this order of preference for cognitive processes spend their entire life trying to decide and find evidence. 

My long-term strategy (even INFP:s can define strategies and make long term plans, even if we easily can alter them, should new data indicate that the chosen route is not the preferred) has been to completely establish and provide assurance on which type I am, before I venture into understanding myself with the help of type theory. I have evaluated the dangers of working with self-actualisation based on an incorrect type as very high. The danger of doing so, you allude to yourself, in your posting above. You express it in different terms: Have I, due to external circumstances, had my self consistence (consistence with my preference for cognitive functions) altered? 
Your comments are therefore especially thrilling, and aiming in the right direction. 

_Indeed it is my “Pness” as you call it, together with my Ne which produces a very non-directive question. Only if I knew exactly where I was going, I could give you an exact definition of the answer I was looking for. However, if I knew the question, I could simply Google the answer. No need to post it here._

Rather, I am hoping that people will step into the problem, understand where I am coming from and direct me (yes, I know: difficult for strong Te). Had I not had an open mind from the start and imagined alternatives, I would still have thought I was ENTJ. Imagine what damage that would have posed to my process of self-actualisation.

I believe there are many attractive INFPs. So concluding that attractiveness is a strongly contributing factor to my state is probably inaccurate. Further, my baseline is not particularly attractive. But after applying a good hair dresser, some high end hair products, sun and an expensive well ironed shirt to a pair of Lee or Replay jeans - well, there are a few people who would describe me as attractive. However, this is attractiveness I chose to create. So it must be something else. 

However, I will give you a strong recognition in stating that there might be external factors. I have always wanted to be the prototype of the ENTJ. Growing up I road modelled business men and successful leaders of major corporations. I road modelled success and power. These were the values I wanted to achieve. 

Thank God (!) I say today. Wasn’t it for this drive to achieve success I wouldn’t have graduated neither from university nor high school with somewhat decent grades. My drive for success and power were my fuel. And when the INFP sets up some values, you can be damn sure he will make sure he achieves. 

But only so long. Because when I achieved success and power – I realised it didn’t bring me what I was looking for. I started believing that I had been driven to achieve success and power just because it would make people like me. But people didn’t like me. Nobody likes you because you earn a lot of money and have a fancy title. People rather DIS-like you. 

However, I am forever thankful I grasped the wrong values at the start of my life. Without this little “mistake” I wouldn’t have what I have today. 

But I want to know where things went wrong – why did I take into my world the wrong values? Why was I not consistent with myself? Why didn’t I run away to join the circus or study philosophy?

You write: “Seems that you have a bit of this raging hate for your personality, possibly annoyed with your "misfortune" or at the very least dissatisfied with the function toolkit you got for your birthday. Perhaps, as above, you wish you had a personality more in line with what people expect from your appearance?”

Thank you Space Whale. This is very a very beautiful piece of poetry for me. This is exactly how I feel. I recent myself and I damn my bad luck for being treated in such an unfair way. 

At the other hand, had I had a different toolkit I wouldn’t be I, and it wouldn’t matter anyway. I want to be me, I want to be the INFP. But I also want to be the ENTJ (no, the ESTJ does not appeal at all. Wouldn’t see anything one doesn’t stick under their nose. A dog is smarter). I want to be able to switch on the cold, unemotional and un-empathetic side. To step on people who steps on my value. To take charge and carry through. Not being diverted by irrational feeling. I worship my Amina (Google it).

Further you write, and this is equally beautiful: “The strategic thinker sees the same and retorts, if the "inner burning fire" temperaments are just a joke, then they would have been eliminated through evolutionary survival long long ago. Perhaps it's a rare/mutated jumble of traits, but I doubt it. No, the simple solution is that melancholics offer something to society, something we only need a little bit of (in terms of individuals), but critical none the less.”

When I try to console myself for my bad luck, for the injustice of ME being the one which needs to invest energy in achieving (yes, we can achieve, but it costs a lot of energy) when other have it as a natural part of their personality, this is exactly what I imagine. I recognize that my type is not the one most ideally equipped (translation: I am worthless) for achievement and success in the Western and soon to be Globalised world’s society. But what if.. what if indeed our type has an enormous standard deviation. What if our type is the one which for sure is set up for failure, but at the same time the type where those who break out, can achieve unlimited success. Our powerful imagination, truth seeking and open mind can achieve thoughts no other type can dream of even dreaming of. What if you acquire the tools for expressing yourself in the modern world in a way which can pay off, rather than letting your ideas out through music, poetry or literature? I have seen it work. I have seen myself transforming ways corporations work. …and why does it always seem to be me who is right in the long run. (let not this slide into an off-topic discussion, I am interested in understanding how my cognitive functions have played tricks on me). 

End words: I would like to have a type war with you Space Whale, when we are through with this thread. Now, however, I will not shoot back at any INFP criticism you have provided, in the way my inner fire currently asks me to ;-) 

Here I mention some nicks I would like to know about this posting: @demonfart @soulsearch @goldentryst @a space whale




a space whale said:


> I think you need to clarify exactly what you are asking, but I suppose that's the Pness approach. In that case, I offer some ideas to the 'discussion,' gleaned from what you revealed:
> 
> 1) Cognitive functions playing tricks? I see no tricks. Personality makes up only part of your character, your "being" as an individual. Other important factors include: physique/appearance, background/upbringing, family/relations and education/experience.
> 
> ...


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## Herp (Nov 25, 2010)

I'm not sure whether I'm going to add something to the discussion, but I wanted to do nevertheless.

Being an INFP too, I also feel like those descriptions make me rather uncomfortable about my personality type. It basically says I'm supposed to be a 'fairy princess' in order to fulfill the archetype of how INFPs are supposed to be, in order to assure myself. And I sometimes feel exactly as a space whale has described: annoyed with the misfortune of my function toolkit.

I feel that being an INFP, i barely have any control over what I want to do, and how I want to act. So what if I have to step on some toes in order to get where I need, what if I have to direct something or someone, what happens? I just don't do what I should because I can't violate what I believe.

It may sound - and as a matter of fact, does sound - that I'm a pussy. And it certainly stress me, just because I feel I end up falling back to that awful 'fairy princess' archetype again, powerlessly. I guess that 'the burning fire', as Mr Adder has put it, sums it all: We (INFPs) have the need to control some aspects of our lives, to be able to be lash out when needed, but we can't do that without feeling guilty for not following our values. It does bring a great deal of frustration, at least to me.

I may be cautious when generalizing, but I think INFPs have some sort of fetish with power. Te, being our inferior function, leaves us with a poor skill to direct and control. But we live in a society where we need to do so, and that's why I think INFPs often feel like they don't belong to this planet.

Fuck, I really hate to be unable to do what I want.


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## a space whale (Jul 12, 2011)

Au contraire comrade, thanks to you for putting this out there and making a solid response. I see a lot of wasted potential on this site. Discussions are often either great big circle jerks or full of nonsense written in abstract language to hide the lack of substance. Meanwhile legitimate, well thought-out insights -- you know, the stuff that really lets you peek inside the heads of people so different to yourself -- frequently go ignored. Perhaps I've been snooping around the wrong parts of the forum.

---------------------------------------------

The business about having uncertainty in "accepting" your type is fascinating to me. I mean, getting cast with the INTJ molding is also bit of rough ticket in its own right, but I've always been resigned to it, or ever since first reading about it formally. There were a few times as a teenager that I got lonely or frustrated, but my attitude was always, "well shit, such is life" -- though seeing that now that's a laughably typical INTJ response heh... 



> The danger of doing so, you allude to yourself, in your posting above. You express it in different terms: Have I, due to external circumstances, had my self consistence (consistence with my preference for cognitive functions) altered?


That's not really the point I was making, though I see what you're saying and I think it's just a matter of different perspectives to the same elephant. I have a buddy that I typed entirely through function profiling over the course of a year or so as an ISFP, having never read a type description. He is big, as in 6'3" and massively muscular, and came from a fairly bogan (*******) part of the country, and spent the first 25-odd years of his life acting as a jock, basically (but critically says now he never felt like one of the boys). Nowadays he's a vegetarian, does regular meditation and has grand dreams of moving into bush and building himself a shed and minimalist lifestyle.

Well way later I read the type description, and typical ISFPs are misunderstood painters and alternative artists. So we could say he missed the obvious calling and was shaped by whatever external/non-personality factors, but to my objective analysis he was never "changed" or forced into some shadow creature. Perhaps he was pushed into circumstances that grated against the desires of his personallity, but bro this happens to everybody, and yup, you can be dealt out a shitty hand in external factors as well.

Life in the west is tough, right, but you could have been an INFP born into an Afrikaan warzone: Dear diary, today started out business as usual the -- men came and raped my mother. But then they decided to rape me as well! Oh the fire the burns inside, the world/humanity is so cruel etc etc.

So dark "jokes", but not really jokes right? By that I mean, there's nothing made up or even exaggerated there right?

Anyway, from my interpretation of what you've said I offer the following hypothesis: the difficult question is not "why didn't I join the circus?" but "have I somehow 'damaged' or limited my potential?"

Yeah I don't know haha, that's why its a hard question. But I will say fairly confidently the *answer almost certainly isn't to try and compromise the ideals of another type to fit in your character.* In many respects, this is the _definition_ of a type -- they are _trade offs_. If you are bigger and stronger, you are also slower and less agile; you CANNOT be both the decisive tough guy and the insightful creative, not because there is a limit of brilliance allocated to each mind, but because empowering a given aspect necessarily diminishes others. You try to mix the two, and you end up with a grey sludge that excels at nothing.

I dunno, this fact is obvious to me, but then I spend my days optimising extremely complicated systems for a living, and then sometimes I spend my spare time thinking about the challenges of launching spaceships etc. From this perspective, INFPs represent a extreme biological gambit -- the potential for huge humanistic insights and brilliance -- that carries an equally huge risk in the form of depression, frustration and self-induced anxiety. 

This thread is not about me or INTJs but there are parallels. It took me a long time to realise the issue was one of communication. If you can't communicate, then big ideas and visions are useless. The kind and/or thoughtful will just find you awkward, weird or boring, while the dominant and decisive will either ignore or just take advantage. It took a while, but I consciously developed a style and means to get my message across.
Nowadays I fear or envy no man; thanks to the self awareness granted by introversion I have better developed Te than most Te-dominants; I can unleash the logical sledge hammer almost as hard and unrelenting as the best of 'em, while my ideas and insights are miles beyond, my tactical and strategic maneuvers ten steps ahead. Self awareness has further given me a developed Fi: I'm confidant to get along with anybody, to humor or listen to them, or cut into their insecurities and intimidate if need be. I have the allegiance of some very, VERY smart people who are typically ignored or un-appreciated.

I can go on, but talking about myself is boring. The point comes back to what I was driving at before: figure out how you can communicate, figure out how to play your advantages. To my observation, the fatal flaw in the INFP is not that they are "over-sensitive" or pushovers, but as @Leaves has said, that they have this ridiculous fetish of wanting to be the Badd Ass through dominance and intimidation.

C'mon dudes play to your strengths. Read up for example, on kurt cobain. Come back and argue that he didn't have power and influence through society, that he didn't put his burning fire to use. 
Go on, do it. I'll Te slam your words back down your throat.


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## MrAdder (Feb 24, 2010)

@a space whale


Dear Introvert Intuitive Brother,

I am thrilled to see that you have chosen to contribute yet again in this thread. Indeed all your input is most appreciated. I noticed you post already early morning (CET +2). But I did not want to waste it. I did not want to read it before I had an opportunity to sit down in peace and quiet and fully enjoy it. Deferred reward; what a non-archetypical INFP trait. 

Please feel free to contribute with your own inner reactions and feeli.., sorry, I mean thinking. By understanding how others reason, I can identify how I differ and draw conclusions related to my inner self. 

You report being fascinated by our uncertainty in “accepting” our type. It is not as much about accepting it, as wanting to be correct. INFPs search for ultimate truth, and will not settle for the 80/20 rule. 80 is not enough for me. I am seeking the truth, the pure and naked truth; as inconvenient as it can be. In learning a subject it is usually not enough for me to understand the steps required to take in order to perform a task (sure, I can do it for money), but to excel I require to understand the basic fundamentals. Then I will use my built up experience (Fi) in conjunction with my strongly developed Ne to master the system better than anyone else. (I will use young unmoulded ISTJ:s for execution. Execution is for monkeys, and I can pay them with bananas)

My formula in my personality discovery was; if my axiom is incorrect, my deduced conclusion will be inherently incorrect. Hence, I will not know the truth. Whenever a chosen path is identified as incorrect, the INFP will unconditionally alter the path. The N(i) might of course be inclined to continue further on the lost road, but that can only a N(i) dom elaborate on. 

My uncertainty stemmed rather from an inability to trust my own answers to the questions in any given MBTI, JTI or call them whatever you want questionnaire. In retrospect; some would say I was affected by social factors – I would say I did not (or did not want to) know myself. I had not consciously mapped down my true reactions and did not know myself. Due to repression? I do not know. By going backward – starting at the result -> the INFP archetype, I am now trying to understand myself and my behaviour. However, this would not have been possible without identifying the dominant cognitive process. 

Man, I tell you I lived as an ENFP for a couple of month. Modelling the behaviour, and successfully indeed. I gained some popularity at work. Re-typed as ENTP; gained confidence in being a little more decisive and tough. Suddenly typed as INTP by an incompetent psychologist – started to connect to T(i) and realised I was the undiscovered Einstein. Suddenly my understanding for systems made sense. Not at least why I was being a little architect as young; sketching models of warships and designing the entire interior based on military grade overviews in the national encyclopaedia. Not to talk about the bonding with the nerds at INTP central… after all I had A L W A Y S had this special understanding for nerds, accepting anyone funny and deep enough as a friend. 

I like the dark “joke” example. To test the truth of a principle, you test it with an extreme value and see whether the principle is behaving consistently. In this example the whining of the INFP comes across as just, whining. 

I agree with your hypothesis. One ability is at the expense of the other. I like your expression “you end up with a grey sludge that excels at nothing”. Indeed the ability to wrap, twist and analyse problems thoroughly and indiscriminate on the inside, without limiting the thought process is a fantastic gift. I do not share you view that it must necessarily be humanistic insight. That is not how it works. I often have insights into how different layers of an issue ties in together. I also agree that the ability easily can be used towards the individual itself. 

But your major breakthrough comes when you bring in communication. The INFP is said to have a fantastic ability for conveying a message. I am a fantastic communicator. I easily could easily set fire to the masses, diminishing your perceived T(e) sledgehammer to nothing but a formula on a burning paper. 

When you talk about your Fi abilities, I would say you are rather talking about Fe. “Self awareness has further given me a developed Fi: I'm confidant to get along with anybody, to humor or listen to them, or cut into their insecurities and intimidate if need be”

I can live without the T(e), logic can be learned. I can live with a tertiary S(i), I can write post-it notes. …but execution. The difficulties in reaching a target relating to everyday, mundane routine tasks. That I simply cannot do. And hell is it complicating my life. And hell do I need to invest energy. To perform I probably have to expense at LEAST the double or triple amount of energy, compared to the ISTJ, to whom it comes naturally. Do I not envy the ISTJ, perfectly oblivious to all complications in life, only focused on fast and efficient execution. The key I guess is to acquire some wealth or power, and have the ISTJ execute for you! The only problem with the ISTJ is that they are not much smarter than a monkey. They need defined targets… and sometimes that requires a lot of execution. At the other hand, why not hire an INTJ to organise my thoughts to mastermind the process of some of the ideas retrieved from the FiNe fountain of N(e). 

Talent hits targets nobody else can hit. Genious hits targets nobody else can see. 

DROP CURTAIN.


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## a space whale (Jul 12, 2011)

haha so I gather by the dramatic finish you got something new out of all this to work on.

One of the reasons I left the discovery of the INFP advantage open for exploration is that I don't really know how to put it into words. Perhaps that in itself is a clue to the nature of it...that it loses it's mysterious zing the moment you try to pin it down.

That's my take on the matter any way -- that the best one can do with language alone is merely a hint or suggest at the much deeper concept. For example, "humanistic insight," which you reject in favour of "insights into how different layers of an issue ties in together" but hmmmmmmmmmmmmmrm I'm not so sure.

Seems to me you're talking about abstraction / Systems Analysis, which is to say, the approach and skills taught formally in a philosophy or science or engineering program -- the classic logical/rational disciplines. I would really like to hear you expand on this, what insight does the FiNe combo offer into a complicated issue? Specifically, how does it differ from a "rational" approach?

In the mean time, here is an alternative suggestion toward what I _feel_ it is. It starts with the usual context: we have, as a result of science and technological innovation and optimisation, a living standard of incredible comfort and security, relative to even just a hundred years or so ago -- even among those we consider "poor" by modern standards. We have an incredible array of experiences, flavours, knowledge and information available to choose and satisfy our curiosity and desires on demand. This includes both increased time and means to see to our social needs.

And yet, it's pretty clear a whole lot of people are miserable with our situation. Sometimes there's even sense that the per-capita misery rate has reached an all time high and continues to grow. Are things really worse, or are people just whining as usual? It's hard to tell, but if we accept the former, there's a _feeling_ that the answer has something to do with music, with spiritualism, with fewer but more _meaningful_ social connections (whatever that means). That there's some sort of _humanist_ element missing...as I write this I remember you talked about transforming corporate cultures, maybe we are on the same page.


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## Istbkleta (Apr 30, 2011)

Hatred (and many other negative emotions) seemed so wasteful before discovering the MBTI.





MrAdder said:


> Thanks a lot for your contribution, Istbkleta. For us, who are not in the fortunate situation of having developed as strong T(i) as you, any chance you could elaborate. Sounds like you have an interesting perspective.


Whatever u talking about, no T cares so much to keep strong emotions for extended periods of time. i think

nothing unique in this, ask around

good luck


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## MrAdder (Feb 24, 2010)

Istbkleta said:


> Hatred (and many other negative emotions) seemed so wasteful before discovering the MBTI.


Thanks a lot for your contribution, Istbkleta. For us, who are not in the fortunate situation of having developed as strong T(i) as you, any chance you could elaborate. Sounds like you have an interesting perspective.


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## MrAdder (Feb 24, 2010)

In your first reply you hinted that you had started to appreciate your feelings? Is that what you meant? How does that feel for you?


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## avatarphen (Mar 25, 2011)

I can really appreciate this thread too Adder 
I want more than almost anything for someone to start a fight with me (because i never start, just retaliate.) So that i can show them that i am not just "that nice guy, but he's weak" i want to show them that i can be nice and protect. 
But i guess that kind of sounds like being a hero, which is not at all what i want to be! Always having to save people...You save them once and then they want you to do it over and over and over and over again... Why can't you save yourself?!!?...


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## Chinchilla (May 27, 2010)

It sounds like you have narcissism. The question is do you want to be feared by others or do you just want to have their attention? My analysis could be wrong but that is because I just skimmed the first post and a few other long posts.


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## MrAdder (Feb 24, 2010)

Chinchilla said:


> It sounds like you have narcissism. The question is do you want to be feared by others or do you just want to have their attention? My analysis could be wrong but that is because I just skimmed the first post and a few other long posts.


I think I wanted to have people fear me because I thought it would mean they would love me. What is your take on that, @Chinchilla?


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## MrAdder (Feb 24, 2010)

@a space whale fear not, brother, i will reply. however, first i must find myself in 'the zone'... ;-)


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## Chinchilla (May 27, 2010)

MrAdder said:


> I think I wanted to have people fear me because I thought it would mean they would love me. What is your take on that, @_Chinchilla_ ?


Check these out:
Megalomania - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Narcissism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Histrionic personality disorder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Here's a quiz that might help, although it is not a true psychological test. It might just point out some oddities. 

http://similarminds.com/personality_disorder.html
http://similarminds.com/cgi-bin/newpd.pl
My highest three were schizoid, paranoid and OCD in that order... but I am an INTP. 

I really hate to say you might have a personality disorder, but something definitely sounds out of the range of a normal personality.


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## Up and Away (Mar 5, 2011)

Oppression, creates repression often times, or it creates a counterculture, or revolution.



Chinchilla said:


> Check these out:
> I really hate to say you might have a personality disorder, but something definitely sounds out of the range of a normal personality.


Since when is being out of range of normal a disorder? You forget that ability to "cope" is one of the key ingredients of diagnosing a disorder. You don't go throwing around labels unless you need to, usually, unless you think someone has enough self actualization to handle it, and, if they can handle it, then that again might defeat the purpose of the label in the first place, since they might be coping just fine. No worries though, the information you provided can help I'm sure, and Im sorry if I came off too direct here.

AT OP: I suppose I was wrong to say you don't seen sentimental in the other thread.

I guess I relate to you in some ways. I am very sentimental, but when I interact with other people, I can come off as direct and to the point, and unnecessarily critical.

Repressed emotions. Myers briggs is about preference though, and honestly, its hard to even know our preference, because in life, we hardly are removed completely from fear ever, and when we are, its hard to know if we would like something else better if we tried it.

Typology, very unreliable.

Quote me in the other thread where I said u were pissing me off, and I'll respond and clear it up, if you like.


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