# Depressed with the knowledge that there is no free will



## B3LIAL (Dec 21, 2013)

I don't know guys. I've been able to deal with a lot of dark thoughts and shit in my life by accepting that it's just my dark reality. I've been suffering from depression recently, and maybe this is why the knowledge is hurting me.

But since I've become aware of things like free will just being an illusion, and that all along I was basically bound to make certain life changing decisions based on genetics and experience, has kind of sucked the special feeling that life used to bring me.

The knowledge that my emotions are produced simply by signals in my brain, has just kind of taken the romance out of life for me.

I feel as if I can no longer watch a movie or get lost in nature as I once did. I'd go out and be at awe at my surroundings.

I can still feel pleasure but I feel separated from it. I can still taste nice meals but I feel detached from it.

It doesn't register with me anymore for some reason.

I feel like I don't exist and that all there is is an empty human being, walking around watching the days go by.


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## LandOfTheSnakes (Sep 7, 2013)

How were you able to prove free will is an illusion?


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## B3LIAL (Dec 21, 2013)

LandOfTheSnakes said:


> How were you able to prove free will is an illusion?


There are tonnes of arguments on google that you can find, but think about it this way.

Lets say some thinks that they have the free will to choose not to eat a mars bar because they're trying to lose weight, and thus they believe in free will because they're not doing what their body or even their minds wants them to do.

It may seem like a choice made by someone's "higher self" or whatever you want to call it, but they're only doing it with the knowledge that it will make them feel better later on.

The knowledge that there's a benefit to not doing something that would feel so good right now is what stops you from eating that cheese burger, not free will.

It's all about genetics and experience.


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## Maedalaane (Jan 20, 2015)

'Fraid I can't offer advice on how to deal with it, but I can do my best at refuting the concept that free will doesn't exist! Pray tell, what has delivered you to this conclusion, dear devil?


Edit: Well you done ninja'd me. Let me think now.


Edit 2: So...I'll confess that I'm not really following you. Are you trying to say that a Human is only ruled by what makes them feel better?


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

This sounds totally like clinical depression and it could be that your depression is causing you to focus on the negative rather than the other way, that you discovered that knowledge and that made you more depressed. 
I don't know much about the subject, but maybe if you weren't depressed you would be able to see that it's not as bad as you think, like for example that many things you do in your life are of your own volition and some other things are guided by biology in the way you describe it (without free will). It is kinda sad that we are slaves to our biology but at the same time, if you aren't depressed it doesn't bother you on a day to day basis exactly because of that biology. But you also mention that you made life-changing choices also due to experience, it may not be free will exactly, but it's still YOU. Perhaps our definition of free will is too wishful that creates unrealistic expectations. 

On another note, maybe this might interest you Reincarnation Cases with Past Life Memories in Childhood, by Walter Semkiw, MD
Ian Stevenson, MD Child Reincarnation Stories, Walter Semkiw, MD Reincarnation Expert & Ian Stevenson Advocate


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## LandOfTheSnakes (Sep 7, 2013)

B3LIAL said:


> There are tonnes of arguments on google that you can find, but think about it this way.
> 
> Lets say some thinks that they have the free will to choose not to eat a mars bar because they're trying to lose weight, and thus they believe in free will because they're not doing what their body or even their minds wants them to do.
> 
> ...


I see that argument and wonder why it would be considered a bad thing to plan for the future and maximize benefits/happiness. I really dont want to make such a large jump but since you mentioned you were depressed... do you think that being depressed has led you to believe in a lack of free will, therefore contributing to further depressive thoughts? I don't really know but I've seen a lot of sensationalized article titles claiming that free will was proven to be false only for it to be nothing more than instantaneous reactions to stimuli or things like that... which still fail to take into account exactly what you said - that people make conscious decisions in order to maximize happiness/contentment (I remember at least one of such articles linked to a study that actually said exactly this and that free will was not an illusion - just that in the cases of minor, split-second decisions that free will probably isn't being used).


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## B3LIAL (Dec 21, 2013)

Faey said:


> 'Fraid I can't offer advice on how to deal with it, but I can do my best at refuting the concept that free will doesn't exist! Pray tell, what has delivered you to this conclusion, dear devil?
> 
> 
> Edit: Well you done ninja'd me. Let me think now.
> ...


No, I'm saying that everything is just pre-determined by the genetics we were born with and what we've been lucky or unlucky enough to experience. That's it.


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## B3LIAL (Dec 21, 2013)

LandOfTheSnakes said:


> I see that argument and wonder why it would be considered a bad thing to plan for the future and maximize benefits/happiness. I really dont want to make such a large jump but since you mentioned you were depressed... do you think that being depressed has led you to believe in a lack of free will, therefore contributing to further depressive thoughts? I don't really know but I've seen a lot of sensationalized article titles claiming that free will was proven to be false only for it to be nothing more than instantaneous reactions to stimuli or things like that... which still fail to take into account exactly what you said - that people make conscious decisions in order to maximize happiness/contentment (I remember at least one of such articles linked to a study that actually said exactly this and that free will was not an illusion - just that in the cases of minor, split-second decisions that free will probably isn't being used).


Maybe it is just my depressive state of mind. I've noticed that whenever I think I've rationilsed one thought away and feel better for a short period of time, another one comes in.

But this one seems so logical and so concrete that no matter how much I try to ignore it, the thought is just there. 

Every so often I forget and enjoy a new piece of art or a movie for maybe a few seconds, then it hits me and there's no more beauty in front of my eyes.


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## B3LIAL (Dec 21, 2013)

I am no one.


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## Schmendricks (Apr 16, 2016)

B3LIAL said:


> No, I'm saying that everything is just pre-determined by the genetics we were born with and what we've been lucky or unlucky enough to experience. That's it.


If that's true, I'd call the genetic programming being solid enough or the experiences taken to heart enough for a person to run autonomously enough to focus on other things laying the groundwork for free will, not disproving its existence. I suppose it depends on the scale on which you need to know you're in control.


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## Laze (Feb 19, 2015)

B3LIAL said:


> But this one seems so logical and so concrete that no matter how much I try to ignore it, the thought is just there.


I came across this truth a few months ago, and it is pretty depressing but that should fade with time. I mean, there's nothing you can do, this is just the truth of what you are: a conciousness limited by the physicality in which allows it to exist. 

The way I saw it was I had two choices: accept it and continue with this somewhat linear life or just get it over and done with now and kill myself, as death is the end result anyway. Killing myself seemed like a waste, as it is going to happen someday, so I might as well just ride it out and see if anything interesting happens. Well that and the fact that it would inflict a lot of pain onto my family and friends, which is something I find annoying because it's another thing beyond my control, but yeah...

Having read that back it seems I almost guilted myself into living a life I will always ultimately see no point in it at all. NICE! >_>


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## 54-46 ThatsMyNumber (Mar 26, 2011)

Maybe it's not you with the problem, maybe it's the world we live in and the way society conducts itself. You are not alone. Science and technology is thriving, changing and moving at a rapid pace while spirituality seems to remain stagnant. There needs to be a healthy balance. Are you willing to be an agent of change? Nobody will do it for you, you have to want better to experience better. You got this.


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## Arzazar Szubrasznikarazar (Apr 9, 2015)

Just enjoy the ride?


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## Denature (Nov 6, 2015)

_
Can't say I agree with your idea there.
Our Biology tells us what the best option is but it doesn't rule us.
When you're scared, do you always run? No, you have the choice.
You can stand your ground.
_


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

@B3LIAL

Sounds like you're descending into a special sort of "what's the point?" nihilism/existentialism depression. Everyone has to find their own answer to that question. 

Besides, the whole "Free will vs. Determinism" debate actually misses the point. The truth is, there are moments when we can "nudge" our fates and there are times when we are completely at the mercy of circumstances outside our control. It's a subtle thing, but we are not completely victims of determinism, nor are we completely free.


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## katurian (Apr 12, 2016)

B3LIAL said:


> I don't know guys. I've been able to deal with a lot of dark thoughts and shit in my life by accepting that it's just my dark reality. I've been suffering from depression recently, and maybe this is why the knowledge is hurting me.
> 
> But since I've become aware of things like free will just being an illusion, and that all along I was basically bound to make certain life changing decisions based on genetics and experience, has kind of sucked the special feeling that life used to bring me.
> 
> ...


If you see decisions as depending on experience, go out and experience the things that will help you make the decisions you want to. Experience life. Get your answers from the world. 

Your emotions are produced by signals in the brain, but the type of signals your brain releases depends on what you're experiencing in the moment. You have control over that. 

If you are feeling detatchment and despair then really, truly feel it. It will ground you. It will bring you back into feeling. It'll connect you.


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## Psychophant (Nov 29, 2013)

It's strange how your primitive desire for control makes the conceptual rejection of free will so disturbing even when it's totally inconsequential to your actual functioning. How you could begin to conceptualize free will without removing the idea of causality, and leaving your existence a lifeless, random process? Because that seems like the great irony of it; the things that are intrinsically valuable to you rob you of your freedom and your happiness (whatever that is).


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## Rose for a Heart (Nov 14, 2011)

@B3LIAL

I have felt the way you do. Hopefully I can put this into words: Why do you think that your feelings and behaviors being _predictable _make them _meaningless_? You are alive, you value certain things in life. There are things you want, things that make you happy. Being human means sometimes immersing yourself in life and let it take you. Now, I don't think you should ignore that you want to analyze this, but also realize we sometimes prison ourselves in our imagination and analyses and metaphors sometimes instead of truly just _being_. Being free.

As for the depression itself, I would suggest trying medications if nothing else has helped.


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## Eudaimonia (Sep 24, 2013)

Whether there is a free will or not doesn't weigh as heavily in my psyche as it does you, but I have gone through similar crippling thoughts and got the point where I could barely function because not only of the meaninglessness of it all, but how it nagged and wouldn't let go no matter how I tried to shed it by way of wanting to act out a pretense of living life by ignoring it. Antidepressants or seeking new experiences have their place, but my only cure was to find a meaning that satisfied me to my core. 



This is a time of transition for you that though painful shouldn't be squandered. Whether you chose this or not, all the same you are deepened as you walk through this gate to be carved futher inward with an ongoing journey of awareness which will give you more answers the more you embrace it.



There is so much we don't know amongst the chaos of all the Universe (multiverse... or what have you). It could be that we travel through multiple passages all at the same time. What do we know of consciousness or what we are all a part of the many dimensional planes or the illusions projected from lower dimensions into what we think and experience is reality?



With this and all we can't fathom and yet can still try to behold I simply believe it isn't for nothing.


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## Westy365 (Jun 21, 2012)

Look man, screw that predetermined crap. You can be whoever you want to be—it's all about believing in yourself and having willpower. Depression sucks a lot—trust me, I've had it and I understand. But if you ever want to truly overcome it, you're going to have to let go of constrictive, negative world views and allow yourself to be a free, positive person. Only then will you find happiness. 

I don't at all mean this as a slam to you or your current view of things—I say this because I care about your well-being and I want to see you soar to new heights and out of the depressive spiral you're in (remember, I've been there, so I know how bad it sucks). Perhaps you could argue that I'm an ENFJ and that's exactly the kind of stuff that I'm "programmed" to say, but here's the thing: I didn't have to say it. I didn't have to write this post. I _chose _to write this, to help you because I wanted to, of my own free will. 

You can't base everything on facts and proof. While they are important and have their place with many things, not everything in life can be proven. Sometimes you just have to take a leap of faith and say "screw it" to everything else. 

A bumble bee shouldn't be able to fly, but it doesn't know that, nor does it care. It flies anyway, and doesn't give a **** what anyone thinks it should/shouldn't be able to do. 

In short, don't think so hard—life is what you make of it, so just live your life and you do you! :happy:


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