# disintegration time



## Aha (Mar 6, 2014)

Bricolage said:


> I've simply never seen an instance IRL of those elements interplaying (e.g., ENTJ type two), but I'm open to the idea, even though it seems theoretically at variance or downright impossible. Perhaps you could post a video of an NT type two.


I think that @Nakama does not exist. You agree? roud: It is a glitch in the matrix


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Bricolage said:


> Definitely Fi. :kitteh: Maybe too much, come to think of it, to be INTJ. She's too "emotional" and self-expressive and deal with me and my pain to be Fe at all.
> 
> The problem is that she doesn't seem S or P. She's really focused on N ideas.


I don't think appearing emotional has anything to do with T or F since they relate more to decision-making and how we make sense of the world rather than emotionality in itself. Jung for example noted that feeling doms can be very emotionally cold for this reason, because feeling is primarily a rationalization-process, not an emotional one. 



Aha said:


> Why not? Everyone is genetically almost the same. Every human can fear being controlled and be worthless/not loved/not unique at the same time. And exhibit a variety of behaviours depending on a situation. By making those tritypes and integration points, we just point out what comes after the core fears/motivations/reactions. For example, if you are satisfied with what causes your types ticks, you are more concerned with other things in the line of importance.
> 
> I would go further and propose to abandon tritypes in favor of diagrams and percentage representation of every type. For example, some say that the core type should be at least 51% of behavior of a person and wings can fill other 49% (two wings?). But then, how about other types? Those in your tritype. One could not deny influences of other fears and motivations on his outward projection.


One word: MOTIVATION. Traits only matter so much if there's no internal motivation backing them up. 51% traits of X type mean shit if you don't have the motivations of the said type. 



Bricolage said:


> I've simply never seen an instance IRL of those elements interplaying (e.g., ENTJ type two), but I'm open to the idea, even though it seems theoretically at variance or downright impossible. Perhaps you could post a video of an NT type two.


Why don't you ask him yourself? Anyway, if you want a fictive example, there's Hannibal from the TV series who is decidedly an INTJ and a very stereotype one to boot.


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## Bricolage (Jul 29, 2012)

ephemereality said:


> I don't think appearing emotional has anything to do with T or F since they relate more to decision-making and how we make sense of the world rather than emotionality in itself. Jung for example noted that feeling doms can be very emotionally cold for this reason, because feeling is primarily a rationalization-process, not an emotional one.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


One would hope the type descriptions would sync up with the type's core fear and motivation.


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## Aha (Mar 6, 2014)

ephemereality said:


> One word: MOTIVATION. Traits only matter so much if there's no internal motivation backing them up.



Fear ====> Motivation ====> Behaviour 

Motivations without fear are weak and do not influence behavior much.

As for 51% thingy. Yeah, it is bullshit. It should not be dealt with percentages in such a way (although I like the idea for the sake of statistics and infographics). But there is no clear or pure type. People have more than one fear and putting everyone on one stereotypes is impossible.


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## Bricolage (Jul 29, 2012)

Aha said:


> I think that @_Nakama_ does not exist. You agree? roud: It is a glitch in the matrix


No quick response from Nakama, ipso facto, Nakama DOES NOT exist. Class dismissed.


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## Aha (Mar 6, 2014)

Bricolage said:


> No quick response from Nakama, ipso facto, Nakama DOES NOT exist. Class dismissed.


Well, I know another INTJ-2 @jeb . 

I notice that they are much more likely to be a super-ego types and 5 (which is ego type)

There is a tendency and natural disposition of certain JCF people to become some enneatype but I think that the major influence is still behind upbringing and life conditions in the childhood.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Aha said:


> Well, I know another INTJ-2 @jeb .
> 
> *I notice that they are much more likely to be a super-ego types* and 5 (which is ego type)
> 
> There is a tendency and natural disposition of certain JCF people to become some enneatype but I think that the major influence is still behind upbringing and life conditions in the childhood.


Type 2 is a superego type.


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## Aha (Mar 6, 2014)

ephemereality said:


> Type 2 is a superego type.


That is what I meant. 

Superego types are "popular" amongst INTJs. 1w9 and 6w5 in particular. 2w1 on rare occasion too, but not impossible.


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## Bricolage (Jul 29, 2012)

Aha said:


> That is what I meant.
> 
> Superego types are "popular" amongst INTJs. 1w9 and 6w5 in particular. 2w1 on rare occasion too, but not impossible.


Yes, on 1w9 and 6w5. No on 2 lol. 2 is like Dr. Drew Fe-dom ~opposite INTJ.


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## Aha (Mar 6, 2014)

Bricolage said:


> Yes, on 1w9 and 6w5. No on 2 lol. 2 is like Dr. Drew Fe-dom ~opposite INTJ.


There are also 1 and 2 ENTPs on our list. What do you think of them? :happy: Or INFP 8. Or ESTJ 7? ENFP 5? INTJ 2 or 7

They are Unicorns of the enneagram. But theoretically it is all possible.


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## Bricolage (Jul 29, 2012)

Aha said:


> There are also 1 and 2 ENTPs on our list. What do you think of them? :happy:


I think they're just dandy.


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## Psithurism (Jun 19, 2013)

Bricolage said:


> No quick response from Nakama, ipso facto, Nakama DOES NOT exist. Class dismissed.


I was actually sleeping while dreaming about you, sorry about that.

And I may or may not exist, depending on if we can connect our hearts with this interaction.



Aha said:


> I think that _Nakama_ does not exist. You agree? roud: It is a glitch in the matrix


I've been called a glitch before, so it's not so bad of a remark. Politely staying with the theme of the thread, however, I might have disintegrated so much I became this glitch you speak of.



ephemereality said:


> Hey _Nakama_ they say you don't exist. Are you sad?


I'm only sad if they are.


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## Dragheart Luard (May 13, 2013)

Aha said:


> * INTJ *2 or *7*
> 
> They are Unicorns of the enneagram. But theoretically it is all possible.


Fun, so with this I and one of my friends that I met in tumblr are glitches as well lol, to be honest I think that INTJ 7 isn't as rare at it seems.


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## Bricolage (Jul 29, 2012)

Nakama said:


> I was actually sleeping while dreaming about you, sorry about that.
> 
> And I may or may not exist, depending on if we can connect our hearts with this interaction.
> 
> ...


Would you post a video of your fine self?


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## Bricolage (Jul 29, 2012)

Blue Flare said:


> Fun, so with this I and one of my friends that I met in tumblr are glitches as well lol, to be honest I think that INTJ 7 isn't as rare at it seems.


Probably not. Both have head type energy. Naranjo weirdly correlated INTJ and enneagram type 7.


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## Psithurism (Jun 19, 2013)

Bricolage said:


> Would you post a video of your fine self?


This is escalating way too quickly. You didn't even send me a friend request yet. 

I rather we take things slowly before I expose myself to you. I would want us to get to know each other first.


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## Aha (Mar 6, 2014)

@_Nakama_ @_Blue Flare_ glitch, strange, weird, etc are compliments in my personal dictionary 

As for why Naranjo connected INTJs and 7. I remember pointing out his train of thoughts. First, he connected a narcissistic personality to type 7 and dedicated the whole chapter solely to narcissistic personality disorder. Then he probably thought about what is the most narcissistic type. Voila! Here you get it 7 ===> Narcissism ===> INTJ :laughing:

Although it is not far from truth. Anyone who ever visited INTJ forum will know what I mean.


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## Psithurism (Jun 19, 2013)

Aha said:


> glitch, strange, weird, etc are compliments in my personal dictionary


You flatter me. I'll take this opportunity to tell you I think you have a very glitchy personality. You might as well be one huge walking glitch.


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## -Alpha- (Dec 30, 2013)

Enneagram at this point to me is basically the horoscope of typology. People seem to cherry pick the parts of the theory they like and ignore the many other aspects (and really, who can blame them, major theorists not agreeing with one another doesn't lend itself to scientific credibility). I appreciate it as an introspection tool, but as far as accurately mapping behaviors while strictly sticking to its mechanics is shakey to say the very least. Imo, those that treat it as a horoscope with a sort of 'kumbaya' prayer circle introspective tint are among those getting the most out of whatever it has. There's not much to agree with with the exception of the study's most shallow aspects and I'm unsure what criteria anyone on this board uses for typing others. I'm type 3 and I agree that far, but as far as anything deeper than that, color me skeptical.

Additionally, I might note having read many studies and most have reported little to no correlation between many aspects of MBTI and enneagram. I'll agree that certain types appear more common than others, but I wish life were as simple as placing human behaviors attributed to 9 fears and motivations and distributing them sweepingly across everyone, then dictating without scientific observation that certain types were more or less likely than others. 

Oh wait. No I don't.


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## Bricolage (Jul 29, 2012)

Nakama said:


> This is escalating way too quickly. You didn't even send me a friend request yet.
> 
> I rather we take things slowly before I expose myself to you. I would want us to get to know each other first.


It's just a video, brah. :tongue:


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## 7rr7s (Jun 6, 2011)

I've been thinking alot about this recently because if I am typed correctly at 3w4 vs 4w3, the disintegration seems to make more sense, however it looks very much like depression and states of mania as well which I also have so it's very hard to say. I think part of it is a strong 7 fix too. Grandious thinking, overworking, relentless pursuit of whatever it is I want, obsessed with image, status, competition ect. coupled with feelings of worthlessness or doubt or thinking I'm just a fake or something. That or not believing I'm as great as everyone says I am despite the recognition, awards, and everything else. 

Now, another interesting thought I had was that the disitegration is so devestating when it does happen that when I sense it coming on I work harder and harder and push myself to try to avoid that feeling of "what's the point of this? fuck everything" and nihilistic thinking. But this actually has the opposite affect. I start to shut down, but then I can get extremely volatile and unpredictable. Drugs, sex, binges, erratic behavior even at work because I stop caring about everything, and then the volume just gets turned down on everything in life. Stop taking care of myself, may gain weight, not shave or shower or do my hair and as much as I hate it it's like I don't even care and feel like everything I worked for was for nothing. 

At this point it's hard to say what is actual disintegration and what is manic depression. I think it's probably a mix of both, although going by tritype theory, I think once my core disintegrates I fall back on my other ones. Not sure if I've ever experienced a full tritype disintegration, but I've come close to it. It's scary. I hope no one ever has to go through that.


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## HighClassSavage (Nov 29, 2012)

Aha said:


> As for why Naranjo connected INTJs and 7. I remember pointing out his train of thoughts. First, he connected a narcissistic personality to type 7 and dedicated the whole chapter solely to narcissistic personality disorder. Then he probably thought about what is the most narcissistic type. Voila! Here you get it 7 ===> Narcissism ===> INTJ :laughing:
> 
> Although it is not far from truth. Anyone who ever visited INTJ forum will know what I mean.


From what I can recall, the correlation between Ni and 7 is that both have an orientation towards anticipating and planning for the future.


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## Donovan (Nov 3, 2009)

i feel like i "disintegrated" once when i was about 11--suicidal thoughts to keep me up at night, combined with trying to run from them during the day light hours by being "what would fit", and being the best at that fit. 

and another at about 18ish, up until now, i guess. it came with--not to fall back on enneagram terminology, but it just happens to sync up nicely--a bodily sensation, or a lack of really. picture disconnecting from your body, unable to feel yourself or your surroundings, and having nothing that drew you back in; nothing that united you _bodily_, between your mind and the world outside (which for me, _would_ be the body). a suspension of will, an excess of energy, and frustration beyond imagining at not having an outlet... it's been an odd mix of drugs, working/studying very hard, and being all friendly and fake at work so others will leave me be (i think it's obvious when i'm in a mood because everyone and their best damn friend--lol--is trying to inquire, and that in itself is more than i can take sometimes. so, a laughing smile is sometimes the only way to fend people off, and a last vestige of sorts). 


to answer your question: a person will torture themselves--usually unknowingly--for as long as it takes for them to realize there's another way of being.


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