# ESFP or something else?



## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

Does thinking I use Ni make sense if I don't have any actual examples of using it,only a feeling that I do use it enough for it to be my auxiliary function?It just feels like something it pops out for a while and then disappears and I completely forget about it afterwards.


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## Psychopomp (Oct 3, 2012)

@_ephemereality_ - ENFJ? Really? Cerebral social crusaders... obsessed with novelty, tend to be intellectuals, strongly focused on making externalized judgments in an Ni context... thus often political, or oriented towards big social issues, though not always, sometimes more concerned with novelty (as in Seinfeld) or just artistic expression but always with a wide scope implication. Very 'change.org' stuff. Lighting up facebook to save the horses (often in a way that shows how thorough and serious about the cause they are, and how connected the conceptual aspect), etc. 

Obama, Seinfeld, Rachel Maddow, MIKA, Ingrid Michaelson (and Alanis Morissette if you ask me). 

So, how is @_Living dead_ that? I am not rejecting the notion... just skeptical.


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

arkigos said:


> @ephemereality - ENFJ? Really? Cerebral social crusaders... obsessed with novelty, tend to be intellectuals, strongly focused on making externalized judgments in an Ni context... thus often political, or oriented towards big social issues, though not always, sometimes more concerned with novelty (as in Seinfeld) or just artistic expression but always with a wide scope implication. Very 'change.org' stuff. Lighting up facebook to save the horses, etc.
> 
> Obama, Seinfeld, Rachel Maddow, MIKA, Ingrid Michaelson (and Alanis Morissette if you ask me).
> 
> So, how is @Living dead that? I am not rejecting the notion... just skeptical.


So,you still firmly believe I'm an ESFP?


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## Psychopomp (Oct 3, 2012)

Living dead said:


> So,you still firmly believe I'm an ESFP?


I've decided to erase that and start at square one and see. I could have been operating in a false dichotomy. So, as of right now, I don't think anything. Clean slate, cuz why not?


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## idoh (Oct 24, 2013)

Living dead said:


> Does thinking I use Ni make sense if I don't have any actual examples of using it,only a feeling that I do use it enough for it to be my auxiliary function?It just feels like something it pops out for a while and then disappears and I completely forget about it afterwards.


well, you're definitely an EFJ.... :happy:

then you also made this post


Living dead said:


> I definitely relate to Si a lot.
> Can someone give me some examples of what Ni does so I can compare?


now, should you pick the function you relate to a lot or the function you don't even know you use? and you also said before that esfj was definitely a possibility :tongue:


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

> now, should you pick the function you relate to a lot or the function you don't even know you use? and you also said before that esfj was definitely a possibility :tongue:


What about Ne in ESFJ?It should be used too,am I right?I can't comprehend that one at all.


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## idoh (Oct 24, 2013)

Living dead said:


> What about Ne in ESFJ?It should be used too,am I right?I can't comprehend that one at all.


maybe that feeling you were talking about was actually ne! you said you feel comfortable with what's old and you relate a lot to si, so i thought esfj, but it's hard to tell. which do you relate to more?


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

idoh said:


> maybe that feeling you were talking about was actually ne. you said you feel comfortable with what's old and you relate a lot to si, so i thought esfj, but it's hard to tell. which do you relate to more?


I don't know.I guess I feel ENFJ.


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## idoh (Oct 24, 2013)

Living dead said:


> I don't know.I guess I feel ENFJ.


ok! now what would make you pick that over esfj?

did you score N on your first tests?

when you have a homework assignment and the teacher gives you a long article and asks you to write a summary on it, how do you write the summary? do you list the topics that the article went over and then conclude what you got out of it, or do you synthesize your summary based on the message of the article? (not what you've learned to do at school, but which you would prefer to do or which comes easier to you)


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

> ok! now what would make you pick that over esfj?


No idea.I could be ESFJ.



> did you score N on your first tests?


I scored INTJ/ENTJ back when I actually believed in tests.I even had a phase when I cleaned my room and did my homework regularly only to fit J stereotype better.Don't take it too literally though,I wasn't like "Be NTJ,be NTJ" in my head,it was just some sort of powerful ideal I looked up to.
Few months ago I got ENFP on a test because few people here said I was one so I was probably subconsciously trying to get ENFP.




> when you have a homework assignment and the teacher gives you a long article and asks you to write a summary on it, how do you write the summary? do you list the topics that the article went over and then conclude what you got out of it, or do you synthesize your summary based on the message of the article? (not what you've learned to do at school, but which you would prefer to do or which comes easier to you)


I guess I'd go with second because I hate listing things in my head and thinking about what I have to write,but I do it if it's inevitable.Second option just seems easier.
Also,we in school write essays/book reports or whatever it's called wherever you are and we get some questions whose answers we need to incorporate into it.I see most people first just answering the questions,then putting them in the best order possible and then figuring out the rest of the thing.I just write what I feel like.I mean,I have the questions on my mind,but don't waste time thinking how I'll answer them.I assume that if it's important enough to be asked,I will answer it without consciously trying to.


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## idoh (Oct 24, 2013)

Living dead said:


> No idea.I could be ESFJ.I scored INTJ/ENTJ back when I actually believed in tests.I even had a phase when I cleaned my room and did my homework regularly only to fit J stereotype better.Don't take it too literally though,I wasn't like "Be NTJ,be NTJ" in my head,it was just some sort of powerful ideal I looked up to.Few months ago I got ENFP on a test because few people here said I was one so I was probably subconsciously trying to get ENFP.I guess I'd go with second because I hate listing things in my head and thinking about what I have to write,but I do it if it's inevitable.Second option just seems easier.Also,we in school write essays/book reports or whatever it's called wherever you are and we get some questions whose answers we need to incorporate into it.I see most people first just answering the questions,then putting them in the best order possible and then figuring out the rest of the thing.I just write what I feel like.I mean,I have the questions on my mind,but don't waste time thinking how I'll answer them.I assume that if it's important enough to be asked,I will answer it without consciously trying to.


omg! you're almost a mirror image of me!! first let me start off by saying I think enfj 

like you, I started off by scoring intj and entj, then later intp, then later the scores started changing as I got influenced of course. I got doubtful as soon as I stepped into the forum though. the second option is easier for me too

edit: @Living dead ok, now I have more time to explain...so, reasoning for EFJ you have a lot of Fe (pointed them out in the other post)when it comes to esfj vs. enfj, well, there are ways of telling...



> *8. Please describe yourself when you are in a stressful situation. How do you act and why? Real life experiences are welcome.*I don't think I consciously feel stress.I guess I just stop thinking about everything and withdraw into the world of light hearted TV shows and forget all about my existence.I even take on personalities of characters at times.


I don't think anyone can "see" ni online, haha, but I'll point this out. when you're stressed you _indulge_ in things. this is lower se, right? basically just diving into the simpler things to stop thinking and get the world off your mind. 
my mom is an esfj, and when she is stressed she goes straight into panic mode, starts being pessimistic and thinks of all the negative things that will happen, and she is even more focused on just that one thing. not even sure what that is, but you don't sound like it

I can definitely relate to you about the reading part btw. reading while thinking about the questions is too much for me, if I just read the questions will come easier. also, do you hate it when you have to write a summary about an article and you have all these guidelines to follow and they are stuck in your mind? wouldn't you prefer to right your own paragraph based on a TV show you like with an new situation and make it all up? :crazy: I had to do both for a project



> *15. What is it that you desire in life? What do you strive to achieve? Why? Where do you think these drives and desires stem from or are inspired by?*I think it's already said in what kind of person do you want to be and I don't like repeating myself,it annoys people.I'd just add that I also crave one real,unconditional love with a person who is just like me.It would be us against the world kind of thing.I know it's really dumb,but still.


I don't know, haha, this also makes me think EFJ. when you said you first tested xntj, were you answering test questions honestly? just go with which ever one you relate to more. 

here's another way to tell... imagine a scenario where your friend comes complaining to you about someone at school, tells you the full story, they're going through a rough time and everyone hates him. do you usually respond:

"yeah, he's a jerk. why would he do that! i hope everyone ignore him."

or

"that was such a jerk move of him, but don't forget that his mom and dad got divorced and he really needs help right now..."


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

> I don't know, haha, this also makes me think EFJ. when you said you first tested xntj, were you answering test questions honestly? just go with which ever one you relate to more.*
> 
> here's another way to tell... imagine a scenario where your friend comes complaining to you about someone at school, tells you the full story, they're going through a rough time and everyone hates him. do you usually respond:
> 
> ...


Well,I never answered honestly(I don't think I'm capable of that),but that was when I did tests:laughing:

As for this friend complaining,I am weird.I really have unpredictable reactions depending on how I want to be seen.Except with my parents and stuff,I mostly just nod and don't listen because I know I can get away with it.I mostly say the second option though,but I add my own part,like"...blah,blah,divorce...He looks so fat in those jeans.":laughing:
Sometimes I do try to make excuses for person,but do it in a way that will make them sound lame.I guess I don't really like "OMG, _such_ a jerk!Hope he burns in hell!" because I smile when I find out people are talking like that about me and I always assume others are like me as well and will react that way too.Also,I can get kind of paranoid and think "What if this jerk telling me all this goes to that other jerk when they make up and tells him I called him a jerk?"
Sometimes I just disagree with everything a person says just for the sake of it.

As for this:


> basically just diving into the simpler things to stop thinking and get the world off your mind.*
> my mom is an esfj, and when she is stressed she goes straight into panic mode, starts being pessimistic and thinks of all the negative things that will happen, and she is even more focused on just that one thing. not even sure what that is, but you don't sound like it


It's really not me most of the time.I rarely panic for more than 2 minutes.I usually either don't think about it or I start looking at things differently or from other's perspectives.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

arkigos said:


> @_ephemereality_ - ENFJ? Really? Cerebral social crusaders... obsessed with novelty, tend to be intellectuals, strongly focused on making externalized judgments in an Ni context... thus often political, or oriented towards big social issues, though not always, sometimes more concerned with novelty (as in Seinfeld) or just artistic expression but always with a wide scope implication. Very 'change.org' stuff. Lighting up facebook to save the horses (often in a way that shows how thorough and serious about the cause they are, and how connected the conceptual aspect), etc.
> 
> Obama, Seinfeld, Rachel Maddow, MIKA, Ingrid Michaelson (and Alanis Morissette if you ask me).
> 
> So, how is @_Living dead_ that? I am not rejecting the notion... just skeptical.


My question is why an enfj must be any of those things? I still don't agree on Obama being one btw. You describe a social first type in enneagram. 

After reading a bit more of the op in this thread I am still sure of fe but I noticed a lot of subtle ne. I lean isfj at this point. If not isfj then istj but I don't see te and fi.


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

> After reading a bit more of the op in this thread I am still sure of fe but I noticed a lot of subtle ne. I lean isfj at this point. If not isfj then istj but I don't see te and fi.


Why ISTJ?


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

Btw,what does this mean and does it have anything to do with my type?
So,when I listen to a song with more complex lyrics,I can kind of get some ideas about it's possible meaning,but I absolutely have to look what artist says about it or at least what most fans say.If it doesn't match with my ideas,I completely disregard them although they might fit,in a way.I have to listen to it with artist's thoughts in my mind and I even get annoyed when people ignore the reality and just insist they like their personal interpretation better.I also hate it when words are taken out of context/viewed separately from the general song meaning.


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## Mr inappropriate (Dec 17, 2013)

^^ that sounds like sth I never do. I mean, I just listen to music, I dont even realize what has been literally said in lyrics sometimes. As long as the tune and voices sound chilling/fun its a great song.

Since, I have Se in my top two, you probably have the exact opposite - Ni. 
*N*J


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

crashbandicoot said:


> ^^ that sounds like sth I never do. I mean, I just listen to music, I dont even realize what has been literally said in lyrics sometimes. As long as the tune and voices sound chilling/fun its a great song.
> 
> Since, I have Se in my top two, you probably have the exact opposite - Ni.
> *N*J


Up until a year ago I didn't care about lyrics AT ALL.They still aren't always important to me,but when they are I need to know what they really mean.


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

And is this Fe?
I can't stand listening to music/watching a movie with someone who doesn't really enjoy it and is truly in love with that music/movie.If I don't manage to make them like it I lose half of the interest too and even start doubting myself for liking it.I also don't always admit what music I listen to,favourite books/movies and stuff like that although I don't like anything weird.I first check if person I'm talking to likes it too.That is if I don't want to piss them off though.

Sorry I'm asking such specific questions,I know it's not the way,but I need to give as much info as possible.


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

> After reading a bit more of the op in this thread I am still sure of fe but I noticed a lot of subtle ne. I lean isfj at this point. If not isfj then istj but I don't see te and fi.


And why not ESFJ then?It has Fe,it has Ne and no Te and Fi and it also has Si as a secondary function.


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## Eating_salad_bones (Aug 21, 2013)

Your type is also Bikini Kill's type. Not sure. ENFP with a slight tinge of ISTJ.


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## Mr inappropriate (Dec 17, 2013)

so, what type did you decide to be?


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

Thanks for asking,crash!
Probably ENFJ or ESFJ,leaning towards ENFJ.I'm really not sure yet(but will I ever be?).I wish people who suggested other types had some valid arguments though,instead of just saying a type.

Do you have some new suggestions?I'd be more than willing to consider any possibility.


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## Eating_salad_bones (Aug 21, 2013)

Estj.


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## Mr inappropriate (Dec 17, 2013)

ENTP maybe because you dont sound like ***J person, and I dont think you care to experience sensory stuff.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

crashbandicoot said:


> ENTP maybe because you dont sound like ***J person, and I dont think you care to experience sensory stuff.


The problem is, there is no J person or P person in that sense, and ESFJs are Si auxiliary, so they may not care as much about sensation as you think they would. Instead, Si informs their Fe worldview, so they orient their Fe more in terms of the observable. I may actually suggest ESFJ at this point. This ability to be undecisive is something something I see more as a quality in Ne types, where Ne keeps generating options that seem equally valid, so the Ne type can't decide which option is more likely because potentially they could all be.

I also think my initial Fe dom reading was correct. Fe can often be mistaken for intuition both by the Fe type and by people who don't know how to type by functions.


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## Mr inappropriate (Dec 17, 2013)

ephemereality said:


> The problem is, there is no J person or P person in that sense, and ESFJs are Si auxiliary, so they may not care as much about sensation as you think they would. Instead, Si informs their Fe worldview, so they orient their Fe more in terms of the observable. I may actually suggest ESFJ at this point. T*his ability to be undecisive is something something I see more as a quality in Ne types, where Ne keeps generating options that seem equally valid, so the Ne type can't decide which option is more likely because potentially they could all be.*


yeah, thats why she looks ENTP

edit: also, there are Je people in that sense. if you would have actually known what you were talking about, you could have seen all people are just JxPx' in this cognitive function system. so, whether she is a Je/pi or Ji/pe is relevant.


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## Fat Bozo (May 24, 2009)

Something else. I don't think an ESFP would try to make things MORE complicated than they are, unless he/she was just messing with people for attention.


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

Fat Bozo said:


> Something else. I don't think an ESFP would try to make things MORE complicated than they are, unless he/she was just messing with people for attention.


That's a very good point and it's actually the kind of thing that got me thinking I can't be ESFP or probably any S for that matter.The only problem is that I just _can't_ tell if I'm messing with people for attention or not.I thought about it,but I really,really don't know.It also happens in real life and that's why I don't even know if what I'm saying is true.I sometimes start off by acting and then get so into it that I forget it might not even be me.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

crashbandicoot said:


> yeah, thats why she looks ENTP
> 
> edit: also, there are Je people in that sense. if you would have actually known what you were talking about, you could have seen all people are just JxPx' in this cognitive function system. so, whether she is a Je/pi or Ji/pe is relevant.


But you were suggesting J as in, judging as in, appearing as a J type, no? I don't type based on letter code, only cognition. I don't think she looks ENTP. She definitely looks Fe first.


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## Eating_salad_bones (Aug 21, 2013)

Most certainly an F type.


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## Mr inappropriate (Dec 17, 2013)

but not in the J/P axis as you would like think. if that was the case I'd simply write J, not ***J. 
***J corresponds to Je>Ji. 
look for what I wrote about S/N. now, thats bullshitting. I hope you can see the difference.

I dont see how she can be Fe dom, for just wanting attention from others. I dont even think she cares about social rules or anything.
I can be wrong, most likely I am but I'm not shallow as you'd like to think.


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## Fat Bozo (May 24, 2009)

Living dead said:


> That's a very good point and it's actually the kind of thing that got me thinking I can't be ESFP or probably any S for that matter.The only problem is that I just _can't_ tell if I'm messing with people for attention or not.I thought about it,but I really,really don't know.It also happens in real life and that's why I don't even know if what I'm saying is true.I sometimes start off by acting and then get so into it that I forget it might not even be me.


Yeah, that sounds pretty NF to me. And NFs are usually the ones that spend the most time searching for themselves and their type. It's not usually nearly as big a deal to Sensing types.


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## Eating_salad_bones (Aug 21, 2013)

ENFP, ISTJ or ESTJ is my guess.


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

> I dont see how she can be Fe dom, for just wanting attention from others. I dont even think she cares about social rules or anything.


That's what I'm wondering too although I'm not sure if I _just_ want attention.I think the question here is what kind of attention I really want.Obviously,if I just wanted any attention,I would have no problem getting it and you can't really make an argument saying I'm too shy to get or don't have skills to do it because if I _really_ wanted any attention I could get it and I would never get embarrassed and therefore wouldn't be shy and fearful.I just can't tell what kind of attention I want and why do I even want it.


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## Eating_salad_bones (Aug 21, 2013)

Living dead said:


> That's what I'm wondering too although I'm not sure if I _just_ want attention.I think the question here is what kind of attention I really want.Obviously,if I just wanted any attention,I would have no problem getting it and you can't really make an argument saying I'm too shy to get or don't have skills to do it because if I _really_ wanted any attention I could get it and I would never get embarrassed and therefore wouldn't be shy and fearful.I just can't tell what kind of attention I want and why do I even want it.


Hahaha, oh my goodness. Totally ENFP. You sound like half of the non-profit people I worked with when I was working as an online radio station disk jockey/script writer. All of the advocates and non-profit suckers that helped the radio station grow, it's uncanny. They were super nice people but they were also sometimes a little bit "Whoa... chill out buddy... about their thinking on things, etc...). Uberly serious (TE) about things they believed in (FI) socially/and were very heady about their thinking about things in general. ENFP, ENFJ or possibly ISTJ is my guess.


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

So,am I or am I not a Fe dom?And can someone please tell me where does my Ne show in case I use it?


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## Fat Bozo (May 24, 2009)

Living dead said:


> So,am I or am I not a Fe dom?And can someone please tell me where does my Ne show in case I use it?


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

Yeah,I get it.But I tried to just go by the letters and I tried reading descriptions and it didn't work for me.I mean,I don't have a lot of friends and don't party,but I'm miserable without people's attention,I'm emotional and often go against logic to spare other people's feelings so I could spare mine too,but at the same time I don't feel like I have real values and real feelings for people,I am disorganised and don't plan things,but I'm the biggest control freak ever,etc.It gets really confusing and then there is that 'wanting to be xxxx type' thing and all and it just stops working.Functions are more difficult to fake,especially with my previous knowledge about them(I didn't even know about them until signing in here and I tried to type myself months before that)

And I agree that equating identity and type isn't a good idea,but it's difficult not to.


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## Eating_salad_bones (Aug 21, 2013)

You some kind of a sociopath? No... I'm just kidding. You seem ISTJ or maybe even ESTJ. I don't know maybe ENFJ. You seem TE/FI/SI/NE/SE/NI/FE/TI based on what you wrote on this thread. I suppose the closest function to what I wrote would be you AKA ISTJ.


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## Fat Bozo (May 24, 2009)

Living dead said:


> Yeah,I get it.But I tried to just go by the letters and I tried reading descriptions and it didn't work for me.I mean,I don't have a lot of friends and don't party,but I'm miserable without people's attention,I'm emotional and often go against logic to spare other people's feelings so I could spare mine too,but at the same time I don't feel like I have real values and real feelings for people,I am disorganised and don't plan things,but I'm the biggest control freak ever,etc.It gets really confusing and then there is that 'wanting to be xxxx type' thing and all and it just stops working.Functions are more difficult to fake,especially with my previous knowledge about them(I didn't even know about them until signing in here and I tried to type myself months before that)


So, what you're basically saying is that you want to trick yourself into discovering a type by making it convoluted enough that you can't fake it?

To me, that begs the question, why is finding a type for yourself even important to you? Because if you can't be honest about yourself, what's the point?


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

crashbandicoot said:


> but not in the J/P axis as you would like think. if that was the case I'd simply write J, not ***J.
> ***J corresponds to Je>Ji.
> look for what I wrote about S/N. now, thats bullshitting. I hope you can see the difference.
> 
> ...


She actually did say she is very concerned about that on page one as in, being socially graceful, showing tact and concern for others etc in that sense Fe does it. 



Fat Bozo said:


> Yeah, that sounds pretty NF to me. And NFs are usually the ones that spend the most time searching for themselves and their type. It's not usually nearly as big a deal to Sensing types.


I really have to disagree with this. Sounds more like an enneatype thing.


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

Fat Bozo said:


> So, what you're basically saying is that you want to trick yourself into discovering a type by making it convoluted enough that you can't fake it?
> 
> To me, that begs the question, why is finding a type for yourself even important to you? Because if you can't be honest about yourself, what's the point?


That first sentence makes it sound so weird:blushed:

I guess it's identity search+boredom+natural obsessiveness.Like,I just can't stand looking at that 'unknown personality' thing on my profile,but at the same time I want to be sure I'm not mistyped.
I guess that I kind of lost part of my identity when my stepmother appeared and now I'm trying to create a new one or simply hold to remaining bits of old one,I'm not sure,probably both.

And really,I'm being as honest as I can possibly be.I can't think more honestly than I write here.


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

Btw,what do you think about my enneagram?


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## Eating_salad_bones (Aug 21, 2013)

4w5 or 9w8 based on everything you wrote in this thread.


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