# Help with marriage re: my ENTJ boyfriend (ENFP/INFP girl)



## spicytuna123 (May 28, 2021)

Hi everyone. I was going to post this on a general relationship board, but then I decided that ENTJs are so specific that it only makes sense to get views from other ENTJs. I would really appreciate honest advice from ENTJ men who can help me understand my boyfriend.

In a nutshell: I am 30, bf is 32, dating for 1.5 yrs. We are both lawyers living in New York. He earns $250k per annum, as he works for a big law firm (the type that takes over your life, makes you work 40-80 a week). I earn around $120k, working hard but hours are not as long as him. I could very easily make the jump to a law firm that pays me $250k, and I have effectively turned down these opportunities (due to work life balance...it pretty much destroys your life, and that is the sacrifice you have to make, the payoff is the big salary).

From the beginning of our relationship, I have felt a bit insecure. He has not had a serious relationship before, whereas I have had one with someone who was head over heels in love with me, and make that clearly regularly with grand displays of love and affection and easy commitment (in the past, it was always men trying to convince ME to commit to them).

It took him a year to say i love you (and even that happened only when I brought it up - it was not spontaneous -he was fearful to say it). He never suggested moving in, or meeting his family (until I brought it up, and then he said I could meet his parents if he wanted, but I didn't push it as I didn't want to make him uncomfortable). We still live separately.
I worked out he is fearful of commitment (his parents split when he was around 11, he moved to the US with his mom and they were financially very bad off. He seems to be *incredibly* scarred from watching the downfall of his parents' marriage, and hasn't spoken to his dad in a 20yrs. He said his mom divorced his dad because he refused to work hard to support the family financially, basically he sounded lazy, something I know ENTJs hate).

It has now got to the stage where I've broken up with him a couple of times, as I cannot afford to waste time with a relationship that isn't heading to marriage. Both times he pleaded with me not to, tried to logically 'talk me down', and we stayed together.

The other issue I have is his extreme cynicism - he seems super disillusioned about life, has commented that marriage is a trap, comments on other friends who have married (e.g. comments to the effect that his friend who married a nursery teacher is stupid because now she is just going to have babies and not work). He works super long hours, doesn't seem to enjoy life much, doesn't drink or party or go out, basically just work work work.

When we discuss marriage, he basically said I don't earn enough and that he wants a big enough financial 'cushion' before he would marry me. I of course thought this was extreme as our combined income is already around $370k, and it will only go up and up. He said there's either two options: 

a) I go back to a bigger law firm where I earn $250k (can do it, but will make my life hell like his) or

b) I have to wait until he earns more, which could take a few years.

His main fear, from our discussions is:

He is terrified of living an average middle class life, and not achieving the things he wants, he says most people live a 'shit life' but will never admit it (i.e. work, pay bills, pay tax, have responsibilities then die).
He has a dire view of marriage (constant comments that most marriages fail, most people who jump into marriage just due to love are stupid, most people don't plan anything properly (i.e. 'everyone else is stupid and I will not live like that' or 'I don't want to make the same mistakes as my parents (who married just for love).
I have of course considered if he is just making excuses, if perhaps I am just not the right person for him, but I can see over many discussions that these seem to be genuine fears. Other than that, he loves me (so he says), is affectionate to me and we get along well. He says stuff like 'how do people know when they are ready to get married' or 'how did your parents decide when they should get married' - like he is a lost boy in the wild, totally confused about life and terrified of making the wrong decisions, not confident in his own decisions and wanting someone to tell him 'this is what you must do to avoid errors in life'. I am worried that his lack of confidence and fear is going to cause us to break up as I can't wait for years and years for him to become confident.

Of course, being ENFP/INFP I was upset that I am not 'enough' for him to marry me alone. That love is not enough, even with our already large salaries. That he was willing to lose me, just because of money (FYI, he is not materialistic, he is just terrified of the costs of marriage, family etc). He thinks people who get married for love are stupid, and that love is not enough. I agree there must be some practical aspects to marriage (such as combined income being enough) - but I have not met or heard of ANY guy who needs such a large financial 'cushion'. When I asked why it's a bad thing to get married and THEN continue building on your finances together, he essentially said 'no I want a cushion, that's what most people do, most people are stupid and end up divorced or miserable when they are 60'. I keep oscillating between thinking he doesn't truly love me, and trying to convince myself that these are his genuine fears due to his obviously traumatic childhood which I should be sensitive of.

I am exhausted, I KNOW that ENTJs like to plan everything, I know they hate laziness, but is he just *super* ENTJ or is he lost cause? Please help, I am really sad and confused  When I tried to break up recently, he started crying, which I haven't seen before. I just don't know what to do. How can I make this person see that there is beauty in life too?


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## ENTJudgement (Oct 6, 2013)

Firstly he is not "super ENTJ", I share all his views and concerns being an ENTJ myself.

1. Your bf's fear of financial ruin due to marriage is incredibly legit.
I watched my dad's second wife completely divorce rape him to hell, he basically lost 80% of his entire networth because she was a pro and planned it for 5 years. Not to mention the ongoing child support and alimony payments which is a percentage of his income so if he earns 500k a year, hes paying a large percentage of that which discouraged him to work hard which then lead him to depression coz he wants to get ahead but he can't coz it's just gonna go straight to his ex wife's pocket.

2. Your bf's view of getting financially ahead is very wise.
Basically you need to be accumulating wealth in your early years because you will soon realize that wage earners such as you 2 will always be wage slaves, the only way to achieve financial freedom is to accumulate wealth in your younger years, invest it then let your money make you money and accumulate passive income streams of revenue.

3. Me as an ENTJ think saying "I love you" is redundant because you're only expressing your emotions in the moment, your love isn't unconditional, you could love me one moment then fall out of love the next moment so whats the point of giving me this temporary affirmation? I'm future oriented, I don't really value the present that much. I'd much rather you SHOW me that you love me in action, words are cheap and usually don't mean much.

4. I'm just as skeptical if not more than your bf, ENTJs are very distrusting and skeptical due to our Critical Parent Ne which basically looks at all possibilities that you could fk me over then try and eliminate each one by testing you until you pass. it doesn't help that we've got demon Fe and our direct way of communication often leads people into coming to us for help only to never hear from said person again until he/she needs help again. I know we do this onto ourselves but some ENTJs would feel used.

So in summary, you are not compatible with your bf, if you love a guy that just wants to get ahead in life and focusing on wealth accumulation while being skeptical of you and your intentions then I'd have to place you in the extremely hypergamous category who picks emotionally unavailable, high achieving guys.


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## mia-me (Feb 5, 2021)

I see this as an incompatibility where it's time to move on before you invest more of your time and emotion on a guy who isn't ready for and might never be ready for the lifestyle that you want. If you stick this out, you're in for a rocky future, particularly if something goes wrong and he blames you for convincing him to take your path.


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## Fru2 (Aug 21, 2018)

This person sounds absolutely immature. Where is the Ni? I can't see it. He's literally telling you that his enslavement to his job isn't enough and he wants more of it in order to be secure, to the point of preffering it over you and urging you to join in on the relentless preaching. Such men are scared shitless of what might happen if they wouldn't have the constant influx of comfort in the form of numbers in the bank. This will never stop, as he's emotionally reliant on the money, not on you.

Unless he's willing to give you a goal he wants to reach and then be done with working. 1-5 years is alright, any time after that and you're out of time, so it's a risky bet. Therefore, if I were you I'd put in the condition of either you two merry this year, which will be seen as the contract for his word to you of finifhing with this miserable lifestyle, or you leave him. This will make it clear to him "when it's a good time to get married even".


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## SouDesuNyan (Sep 8, 2015)

I've never said "I love you" to anyone before. I think many intuitive thinkers are like me, were I wouldn't say words that I don't fully understand (or at least 90% understand). To say something that I don't understand is ignorant, dishonest, or insincere. Of course, it's fine saying it playfully, like "I love pizza". But if I have to mean it, the word to use is "want", not "love". So, would you prefer poetic dishonesty or subtle/nuanced honesty?


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## Eu_citzen (Jan 18, 2018)

I concur that it sounds like an incompatibility problem, though. And him being immensely anxious, maybe immature.
All if not most of his reasoning seems centered around fear. That to me would be a red flag, and if you continue walking down that path, it'll likely be a rocky one.


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## islandlight (Aug 13, 2013)

He won't marry you unless you choose a lifestyle that you've already decided against. When you decide you've had enough and say you're leaving, he cries and you stay. Easy for him!

Let him find someone who wants the same things he wants. Good luck.


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## impulsenine (Oct 18, 2020)

He's caught in a rat race.
He will wake up to reality sooner or later. Before dying, if he is lucky.



spicytuna123 said:


> When we discuss marriage, he basically said I don't earn enough and that he wants a big enough financial 'cushion' before he would marry me.


And you believed him?
🤣
What other embarrassing excuses does he find for every miserable part of his life?


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