# Difference in how you view type __ compared how most people/descriptions view them



## Father of Dragons (May 7, 2012)

Sixty Nein said:


> I also think that SX variants can have the potential to be super boring. Their obsessiveness can turn into arcane things that causes their addictive passion to be untranslatable and one dimensional looking.


I definitely agree that SX doms can be really quite boring, although not necessarily due to the reason you describe. I think it boils down to the simple fact that the SX-instinct is quite a selfish instinct. Here's an example I'm sure you everyone can relate to: the stereotypical "too-cool-for-school" kid zoning out and not giving a damn about the people around them because they are too busy texting their friend about the super cool rave they are going to hit up on the weekend. SX-doms can be like black holes when they aren't entertained, not contributing much of anything to anyone.

I'm not trying to sound harsh, because this is definitely quite true of myself at times. I will find I can zone out and be too lazy to small talk with acquaintances or people who I don't find terribly interesting. It can damage these relationships, and I am willing to accept it because I see it coming and I know I deserve it. But, it doesn't make it any easier to pretend to care when someone feels the need to tell me how comfortable their shoes are. 
:frustrating:


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## OrangeAppled (Jun 26, 2009)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> *1s:* more proud, less subordinate to external authority, enjoy "righteous punishment" (if/when they allow themselves to indulge in it)
> *2s:* more conceited, more aggressive, more confident/assertive, often manipulative and childish, more dramatic
> *3s:* more strategic, less narcissistic, less concerned with the acceptance of others, more independence seeking
> *4s:* more elitist (esp 4w3), angrier
> ...



This is pretty close to my impressions of people at average levels. There's something sadistic about many 1s that doesn't get talked about too much (as sadistic is usually reserved for 8s). 

2s are more seductive & dramatic than people-pleasers (which I see as more 9w1 or phobic 6). It's like they see themselves as the gift, so they don't have to DO much.

Since 3s seek a reflection of their ideal self, this can manifest in a huge variety of ways. The person is not seeking acceptance, but mirroring. This is not the same as being liked or even admired.

4 anger can be related to the super ego connection someone else brought up. 4s can be very interested in moral/ethical issues, which is in contrast to the self-absorped image most have. I think Naranjo mentions the feminist movement as having a strong 4ish flavor (there's your anger!). 

6s have a lot of philosophical types or even outright conspiracy theorists. Sometimes it's really shallow philosophizing, but they do it nonetheless. Phobic SJ 6s have way more preoccupation with being special or weird or crazy than 4s, IMO. These people often post memes on their social network about being crazy or weird even if they come across like the most ordinary person ever. I guess internally they have some paranoia about being strange (?). Or maybe their anxiety makes them feel "crazy"?

7s strike me as having a lot of bravado, and their know-it-all streak is under-mentioned. They can get very pushy with an opinion. I also don't see them as "always happy" but rather projecting a fun-loving image while stressing out a lot. It reminds me of that episode of Portlandia where they go to Italy & sleep the whole time in the hotel & it's a totally awful vacation - but the one photo of them smiling on the plane makes people think they had a blast. 7's (mainly 7w6) lives remind me of that.

8s seem like meatheads....people are so impressed with this type & whenever I think I've encountered one, it's less this slick CEO type than some thuggish meathead.

What you describe reminds of me 9w8s (avoiding expending energy). Both wings seem quietly judgmental, with 9w1s less quiet. Healthier ones do care, but the energy some expend can have the 2ish flavor of "giving to get". They also worry more & have more negative emotion than described; the inner zen is over-emphasized for them (more a "goal" than actual state).


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

OrangeAppled said:


> This is pretty close to my impressions of people at average levels. There's something sadistic about many 1s that doesn't get talked about too much (as sadistic is usually reserved for 8s).


when a 1 embraces this sadistic side, it's a beautiful sight to behold



> 2s are more seductive & dramatic than people-pleasers (which I see as more 9w1 or phobic 6). It's like they see themselves as the gift, so they don't have to DO much.


p6 and 9 are more about bending over backwards; 2s are more "I'm going to look like I'm bending over backwards for you, so that you will actually bend over backwards for me"



> Since 3s seek a reflection of their ideal self, this can manifest in a huge variety of ways. The person is not seeking acceptance, but mirroring. This is not the same as being liked or even admired.


well put



> 4 anger can be related to the super ego connection someone else brought up. 4s can be very interested in moral/ethical issues, which is in contrast to the self-absorped image most have. I think Naranjo mentions the feminist movement as having a strong 4ish flavor (there's your anger!).


:laughing:
I think the superego bent of 4s is related to their seething, judgmental nature (which is another underemphasized aspect). while they're quieter about it than 1s, they're far less apologetic about it than 9s. their sometimes holier-than-thou attitude can seem 1 or 2 and their projection can seem 6. 



> 6s have a lot of philosophical types or even outright conspiracy theorists. Sometimes it's really shallow philosophizing, but they do it nonetheless. Phobic SJ 6s have way more preoccupation with being special or weird or crazy than 4s, IMO. These people often post memes on their social network about being crazy or weird even if they come across like the most ordinary person ever. I guess internally they have some paranoia about being strange (?). Or maybe their anxiety makes them feel "crazy"?


yes



> 7s strike me as having a lot of bravado, and their know-it-all streak is under-mentioned


definitely (I mentioned this in a thread I made comparing/contrasting 8s and 7s)! it's common for 7s (especially Sp 7s) to mistype as 3 for this reason, but, if anything, it's closer to 2 or 8.



> They can get very pushy with an opinion. I also don't see them as "always happy" but rather projecting a fun-loving image while stressing out a lot. It reminds me of that episode of Portlandia where they go to Italy & sleep the whole time in the hotel & it's a totally awful vacation - but the one photo of them smiling on the plane makes people think they had a blast. 7's (mainly 7w6) lives remind me of that.


I think the positive outlook of 7 comes from two sources:
1) a general belief of "this is temporary". when a _permanent_ crisis (losing a limb, aging, the death of a close friend etc) arises, a whole other side of 7 comes out which can resemble 4s.
2) detachment/general "who cares?" attitude similar to 8s. the disconnect of 8s with their more human emotions is well noted in credible descriptions, but it needs more attention in 7s. 



> 8s seem like meatheads....people are so impressed with this type & whenever I think I've encountered one, it's less this slick CEO type than some thuggish meathead.


this is because many people view the typical 8 as some NTJ, mastermind, take-over-the-world type (this is specifically an xNTJ 8w7>5>3 Sp-dom with a strong wing. it is NOT most 8s, who tend to come off more down to earth and unembellished). frankly, your average 8 is fairly slow minded and closer to the type of person you would see interviewed in a prison documentary. still, I like the type overall because they get results. imo, raw intelligence is overrated in Western society. intelligence is a tool to get what you want, so as long as you have enough to get good results, _who cares_? the higher functioning 8s are a lot of fun to observe because even the more well off ones have a ghetto personality underneath a pseudo-civilized exterior (which, unlike a 3, is fucking _obvious_ to see through, being more about impulse control than image manipulation). 



> What you describe reminds of me 9w8s (avoiding expending energy). Both wings seem quietly judgmental, with 9w1s less quiet. Healthier ones do care, but the energy some expend can have the 2ish flavor of "giving to get". They also worry more & have more negative emotion than described; the inner zen is over-emphasized for them (more a "goal" than actual state).


agreed. imo, 9s aren't nearly as positive outlook as they pretend to be. if anything, their "inner harmony" is more of a weak willed submission. they give up on to trying to impact reality and often take on a fatalistic disposition similar to many 4s, 5s and 6s


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Father of Dragons said:


> I definitely agree that SX doms can be really quite boring, although not necessarily due to the reason you describe. I think it boils down to the simple fact that the SX-instinct is quite a selfish instinct. Here's an example I'm sure you everyone can relate to: the stereotypical "too-cool-for-school" kid zoning out and not giving a damn about the people around them because they are too busy texting their friend about the super cool rave they are going to hit up on the weekend. SX-doms can be like black holes when they aren't entertained, not contributing much of anything to anyone.
> I'm not trying to sound harsh, because this is definitely quite true of myself at times. I will find I can zone out and be too lazy to small talk with acquaintances or people who I don't find terribly interesting. It can damage these relationships, and I am willing to accept it because I see it coming and I know I deserve it. But, it doesn't make it any easier to pretend to care when someone feels the need to tell me how comfortable their shoes are.
> :frustrating:


this is VERY true of me, but it sounds just as much So-last as Sx-dom. if anything, I'd say it's most true of Sp/Sx who often come off like the sleek spy who's too cool for everyone else and is virtually socially impermeable. Sx/So are more concerned with the external environment because making an impact is of greater importance to them.


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## 0+n*1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> 9s aren't nearly as positive outlook as they pretend to be. if anything, their "inner harmony" is more of a weak willed submission. they give up on to trying to impact reality and often take on a fatalistic disposition similar to many 4s, 5s and 6s


I think I am a 9 and I consider myself to be fatalistic. I also score high on all of those (4, 5 and 6), so there you go. I don't pretend to have a positive outlook on life though. I do not have inner harmony too.


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## Recede (Nov 23, 2011)

*How others/descriptions view type 9:* Avoids conflict, seeks harmony, goes along with others, wants everyone to get along

*How I view type 9:* Disinterest or lack of investment in reality leading to a passive approach to life, with individual manifestations ranging from the schizoid 9 to the more classic 9 depicted in descriptions

Type 9 has little to do with social harmony, imo. As with any other type, some will care about it and others will not.


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## Donovan (Nov 3, 2009)

OrangeAppled said:


> 2s are more seductive & dramatic than people-pleasers (which I see as more 9w1 or phobic 6). It's like they see themselves as the gift, so they don't have to DO much.



i haven't met a two yet that was "seductive" (except for an ex, but that in itself is a dynamic in which each person is "seductive" to one another anyhow)--and this makes me think that the terminology doesn't reflect the variety of what to expect, or better yet, that it doesn't accurately describe the initial starting point. 

if "seductive" is stretched to mean "i'll look to what you need/want and try to do/be that", then it fits--and this can sometimes lead to sexual behavior that is commonly associated with our use of _seduction_, if that's what's needed--otherwise, it's just a really big hit-or-miss on what to see/look for in a type. 



the "gift" part is something i can see, but it's more a result of combating hurt pride that comes from having all the 'giving' overlooked... but that is one part that i _have_ seen in almost every 2--they'll work just as hard as a 3 when it comes to securing/winning a person over, and will go to great (and usually unnoticed/un-thanked) lengths to satisfy their own fears.

edit: just want to throw in that i know what naranjo said about 2's + seductiveness; i just think the concept strays too far, and is too oversimplified, to reflect anything other than a sub-variant of the type.


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## mushr00m (May 23, 2011)

OrangeAppled said:


> This is pretty close to my impressions of people at average levels. There's something sadistic about many 1s that doesn't get talked about too much (as sadistic is usually reserved for 8s).


Yes, true. The need to exact punishment on others can be downright wicked and cruel at the expense of others in their expectations. Rigidity at its unhealthiest. I think 1's can also be hypocritical, they arn't infallible to imperfection for sure. 



> Since 3s seek a reflection of their ideal self, this can manifest in a huge variety of ways. The person is not seeking acceptance, but mirroring. This is not the same as being liked or even admired.


Yes. 



> 4 anger can be related to the super ego connection someone else brought up. 4s can be very interested in moral/ethical issues, which is in contrast to the self-absorped image most have. I think Naranjo mentions the feminist movement as having a strong 4ish flavor (there's your anger!).


That connection to 1 is pretty frequent in 4's, maybe also because someone who is a 4 is hyper aware of themselves, it would make sense that striving for change especially for more underdog movements would fit this character and because of the awareness of their own marginalization in life.



> 6s have a lot of philosophical types or even outright conspiracy theorists. Sometimes it's really shallow philosophizing, but they do it nonetheless.


:shocked: Fair enough, not sure if I quite agree here though. 



> Phobic SJ 6s have way more preoccupation with being special or weird or crazy than 4s, IMO. These people often post memes on their social network about being crazy or weird even if they come across like the most ordinary person ever. I guess internally they have some paranoia about being strange (?). Or maybe their anxiety makes them feel "crazy"?


And this does make sense, it's that appeal to external authority even in an abstract sense, feeling the need to prove yourself through gestures, posturing, outright bravado etc(this really applies to very neurotic 6's). Surprisingly, many 6's display a true air of confidence and stability, probably because they've worked so hard to identify what is threatening their security such as their previously own distorted beliefs about the dangers of others and the world they live in. By accepting oneself, it's much easier to handle danger because of the internal stability thus better chance of handling issues without fleeing or over-reacting. 

Interesting thoughts!:happy:


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## mushr00m (May 23, 2011)

Donovan said:


> edit: just want to throw in that i know what naranjo said about 2's + seductiveness; i just think the concept strays too far, and is too oversimplified, to reflect anything other than a sub-variant of the type.


Yeah, perhaps more applicable to SX 2's. I keep thinking of Marilyn Monroe(not sure if core 6 or 2 but likely SX dom and if 2, probably SX2 herself).


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## bearotter (Aug 10, 2012)

LOL at "meatheads"


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## HighClassSavage (Nov 29, 2012)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> the higher functioning 8s are a lot of fun to observe because even the more well off ones have *a ghetto personality underneath a pseudo-civilized exterior.*


This is probably the funniest and greatest thing I've ever read about 8s LOL.


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## Donovan (Nov 3, 2009)

mushr00m said:


> Yeah, perhaps more applicable to SX 2's. I keep thinking of Marilyn Monroe(not sure if core 6 or 2 but likely SX dom and if 2, probably SX2 herself).



i definitely agree that they are closer to the mark in how we commonly use the word, because of the nature of the variant--but even then, this ex that i mention is (i'm sure) SX-first but is also a 2w1, and that double super-ego complex really puts a hold on and constrains the more id-like urges that find their way into the talk of "seduction"; they still have to pass through and be filtered by what has dominance (which complicates it further, because then--and we should--be talking about their level of health, and which aspect of their mind is has the greater influence)... this person could be seductive, but her usual mode was that of being helpful and sweet wherever she could (... at least while her super-ego "was in control", lol--they do have a line to 8). 

i think examples of marlyn monroe, casanova and the like are way exaggerated pictures of what the type could be, used for the purpose of showing something distilled, in order to separate it conceptually from its neighbors (the other variants)... but most people may not actually match up to this (at least that's what i see--more like they've been given hints and flavors to varying degrees within the type, and to even greater degrees across individuals).


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Gentleman Bastard said:


> This is probably the funniest and greatest thing I've ever read about 8s LOL.


yeah, I thought so too when I wrote it. :laughing:
it's true though.


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## Rozart (Jan 5, 2013)

*1s:* Less pole up the ass/stick in the mud and more _fire_. i.e. Less prim and prissy and more sweaty, passionate fervor.

*2s:* Less sweet grandma who bakes you cookies everyday and more self-martyr and unconsciously cunning. Is much sharper about social dynamics (and how to maneuver them) than people tend to give them credit for. I think they can handle social situations just as smoothly as a 7 or 3.

*3s:* Less confident. A little bit lost. 

*4s:* Less raccoon-eyed emo artiness and more driven than most descriptions make them out to be. Their emotions seem to always fuel a driving passion of some sort. 

*5s:* Less 'go to this guy if you want to discuss the answers' and more 'go to this guy if you want to _hear _the answers'. i.e. As someone else mentioned before in the thread, they're less objective and more stubborn I feel.

*6s:* Less crazy guy hoarding cans of food in the bunker waiting for the sky to fall and more grounded, dependable-- like a strong pillar you could lean on. Also, less '_just another face in the crowd_' and more varied, unique. 

*7s*: Have more depth to them than just being the poster child of _FUN, FUN, FUN_. Less hyperactive ADHD manchild but more diva-ish "_Cha, cha, cha. It's me, everyone_!" 

*8s:* Less cool mafia-esque leader and more fumblingly aggressive.

*9s:* Less doormat, less sweet and soft and fluffy but more disconnected, disinterested-- like an unmovable ball of inertia. I somehow keep getting the image of Sisyphus, pushing the rock up the hill.


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## OrangeAppled (Jun 26, 2009)

Donovan said:


> i haven't met a two yet that was "seductive" (except for an ex, but that in itself is a dynamic in which each person is "seductive" to one another anyhow)--and this makes me think that the terminology doesn't reflect the variety of what to expect, or better yet, that it doesn't accurately describe the initial starting point.
> 
> if "seductive" is stretched to mean "i'll look to what you need/want and try to do/be that", then it fits--and this can sometimes lead to sexual behavior that is commonly associated with our use of _seduction_, if that's what's needed--otherwise, it's just a really big hit-or-miss on what to see/look for in a type.
> 
> ...



To clarify, I don't mean seduction as in "sexiness". Just trying to make a distinction between _pleasing_ and _winning people over_. 
They're not looking to really give you what you need. They actually don't want to expend that much. They like to appear generous without having to give too much, especially if it takes away from their own comforts. I'm talking average 2s, not healthy. You'll notice that descriptions don't say they truly give until the healthy levels. Then they give when its genuine & don't when they can't expend the resources or just to indebt others.

Seduction is not about giving, but being very appealing in a way that gives you some control over someone else. This might involve actual pleasing at times, but often to me it looks like a mirage. They do a bait-n-switch or talk a lot about how XYZ they are, with far less action to back it up. 

Another thing they do is try to indebt you. They give _enough_ just to claim rights to you. Whether or not you are truly pleased doesn't matter. In their minds, if you are not, then you're really just ungrateful.

No, I don't think they are always aware of these motives. I think they really see themselves as very giving & loving, and in order for them to identify their type, the profiles MUST appeal to that. IMO, in reading any profile, it's important to sometimes see it as a description to attract people to their type. It's often about how they generally see themselves, not necessarily how they are or how they appear to others. IMO, this approach is very problematic with the 3-6-9 triad, for many reasons.


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## theredpanda (Jan 18, 2014)

Father of Dragons said:


> I definitely agree that SX doms can be really quite boring, although not necessarily due to the reason you describe. I think it boils down to the simple fact that the SX-instinct is quite a selfish instinct. Here's an example I'm sure you everyone can relate to: the stereotypical "too-cool-for-school" kid zoning out and not giving a damn about the people around them because they are too busy texting their friend about the super cool rave they are going to hit up on the weekend. SX-doms can be like black holes when they aren't entertained, not contributing much of anything to anyone.
> 
> I'm not trying to sound harsh, because this is definitely quite true of myself at times. I will find I can zone out and be too lazy to small talk with acquaintances or people who I don't find terribly interesting. It can damage these relationships, and I am willing to accept it because I see it coming and I know I deserve it. But, it doesn't make it any easier to pretend to care when someone feels the need to tell me how comfortable their shoes are.
> :frustrating:


Yes, but then the opposite is true when you're interested. This post sounds exactly like something that would come out of my mouth...I have a switch with only two functions- Completely Obsessed and Completely Uninterested.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

theredpanda said:


> Yes, but then the opposite is true when you're interested. This post sounds exactly like something that would come out of my mouth...I have a switch with only two functions- Completely Obsessed and Completely Uninterested.


I have three modes
1) not engaged/deadpan/zombie-like (the norm)
2) mentally engaged (in class and when performing career related tasks)
3) passionately engaged


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

*compliant types:* more assertive than their presented at (well, except phobic 6s). if they don't believe something is "right", they have no more problem taking control than an Id type/ the difference is they tend to be more self inhibiting and require some level of justification (or backwards rationalization) whereas Id types have less reservations from the get go. (the true unassertive types are 5, 9 and phobic 6)


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## randomshoes (Dec 11, 2013)

6s are by far the most traditionally academic of the types. The concepts of critical thinking, verifiable data, and peer review are all very, very 6.

5s will become an expert in something, but that thing could just as easily be cooking, D&D, the saxophone, chess, pole jumping, or house construction as it could be pre-Columbian pottery. In fact, I think a lot of 5s have difficulties in school because there's a tendency (in America) to value breadth over depth.

[Actually, that preference for breadth highly favors 7s in K-12.]


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## Father of Dragons (May 7, 2012)

Re-reading this thread, it seems that some of my observations are very different than you guys... Keep in mind that these are personal observations though, coloured by specific people I have met or encountered.

*Type 1s:* I have noticed that a lot of type ones learn to not be so particular and perfectionist about the little details, and instead save their energy and their passion for one or a few specific 'causes.' I've noticed this most in my sister: she used to be willing to throw down and debate every misplaced word or slightly politically incorrect statement, but now she tends to be more low-key and forgiving for those little things. She is comfortable with applying her search for justice into her work in a steady, practical manner.

*Type 8s:* From what I've seen, a lot of eights learn (through trial and error) that they don't have to prove themselves constantly, and thus become a lot more laid-back as individuals. There will be a lot of unfortunate victims along the way as the eight becomes comfortable with seeing and understanding the amount of power they can exert on their environment, but afterwards the power can seem to become more internalized. By this I mean that a lot of more mature eights can seem to carry with them a lot of confidence that they can get what they want if they just flex a little, but they don't see the need to prove themselves any longer. TLR; Once eights prove their strength to themselves and to others, they become more comfortable keeping it to themselves most of the time.

*(Some) Type 9w8s: *Some unhealthy 9w8s can have parallels with unhealthy CP 6s, believe it or not. By this I mean that both types can really walk around with a chip on their shoulder. The primary difference in practice is that the CP 6 will be outwardly aggressive, seemingly without reason, whereas the 9w8 on tilt seems to want people to give them an excuse to lash out at them. It seems to me that this kind of behavior can arise when the 9w8 individual feels like they are being taken advantage of an excessive amount, treated like a doormat once too often. This is different from the CP 6's motivation, where the behavior derives instead directly from their fixation.


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## Donovan (Nov 3, 2009)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> *compliant types:* more assertive than their presented at (well, except phobic 6s). if they don't believe something is "right", they have no more problem taking control than an Id type/ the difference is they tend to be more self inhibiting and require some level of justification (or backwards rationalization) whereas Id types have less reservations from the get go. (the true unassertive types are 5, 9 and phobic 6)


i think with phobic 6's and 9's that can be true (unless 9 has a counter-variant as well... but even then), because one "adheres/sides" with--while the other "adapts" to--an environment, and both methods of dealing with situations are counter to asserting or even being aware of one's own needs. 

but with 5's, i think it's an "easy to project onto a blank slate" sort of problem. withdrawal is the action taken in order to assert one's own needs (or in order to go about doing so, beginning the process, etc.), and in the process it can look as if the person isn't assertive, but really i think their natural brand of assertiveness is just playing into their natural way of being--and so is incognito for the most part; subtle. 


previous situation: 

(type 5 and myself) 

i had to get my car towed, insurance company was giving me problems, so i went about figuring out their jargon-language + ways of operation so i could _really_ see if i had a case--while he just called the middle-man (towing service) and set something up that still operated within my insurance, but without their noticing it (all still legal, just using a different base to get authorization from... in case my company is reading this, :wink. 

but the thing is, he--on a whim--just decided to ask "the regular joe" in the situation, believing that he'd be dealing with a working-class guy who'd be more understandable and less anal about observing each and every boundary of red-tape... and was completely spot on in doing so, while i would have x-ed that plan from the beginning as it involves relying on the "good graces" of a random person who doesn't know me at all. 


so, his assertiveness--and maybe for all 5's (?)--is just largely invisible because they are more or less (and stereotypically so) "pulling strings"/poking and prodding to get things in their outer environment to align as they'd like (power triad after all)...

so, maybe just not "stereotypically assertive"?


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

*8:* less defender of the weak/freedom seeking entrepreneur; more prison inmate/juvenile delinquent 
*7:* less Disney Channel; more hedonistic rapper
*2:* 2s are Jersey Shores, Bravos, Spanish soap operas and overly dramatic romantic comedies of the Enneagram. no one wants to admit they like them, but deep down, 2s are a guilty pleasure and most people know it. 
*1w2:* less nun; a bit more Id. the 2 wing doesn't turn most 1w2s into mother hens. rather, it brings a sense of pride, fiery zeal and a (especially if Sx dom) a bit more drama. 
for example: more like this


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

@Donovan


> so, his assertiveness--and maybe for all 5's (?)--is just largely invisible because they are more or less (and stereotypically so) "pulling strings"/poking and prodding to get things in their outer environment to align as they'd like (power triad after all)...


while this may be _effective_, it's not assertive. assertiveness is direct and clearly lays out one's boundaries and preferences


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

more on 2:
- more competitive
- less FJ; more SP (I picture your typical 8 fixed E2 female as an ESTP)
- more emphasis on courage and a willingness to jump into the jaws of danger in the name of honor, loyalty or love


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

the reactive side of 8 is often hastily typed as cp6. 8s are not going to lose their shit over stupid arguments (if anything, many view the majority of verbal communication a waste of time), but they _will_ respond aggressively if you
- are not direct with them. like their 7 cousins, 8s are impatient creatures. they want to get shit done and have a low tolerance for people overcomplicating things.
- try to manipulate them
- attempt to use prosocial behavior/give with an agenda (8s are skeptical of kindness in general. having an obvious motive behind it only makes this worse)
- are sneaky, especially if done antagonistically. 

people tend to immediately jump to a 6 typing/fix at the mention of skepticism, but many types, including 8s, are skeptical about certain issues.


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## Grau the Great (Mar 2, 2012)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> *1w2:* less nun; a bit more Id. the 2 wing doesn't turn most 1w2s into mother hens. rather, it brings a sense of pride, fiery zeal and a (especially if Sx dom) a bit more drama.
> for example: more like this


LMAO, that's one of the best songs ever written you know. This is perfect!

In fact, I approve of this so much that I think the Type 1 wing descriptions should be revised to the following:

*1w9:* Average 1/9 combines the perfectionism and judgment of type one with the withdrawal-from-stress of nine. Of all the subtypes, 1/9 is the driest. The emotions are generally the least available on the surface. The usual overall feeling is strict, rational, quiet practicality. The nine-wing makes them less likely to voice their critical views, unlike the more outspoken 1/2. 1/9 would rather act oneishly, from principled judgment, than withdraw into uncaring, nineish apathy like the softer 9/1, but both tendencies are present.

*1w2:* Average 1w2s:

- Are as swift as a coursing river
- Have all the force of a great typhoon
- Have all the strength of a raging fire
- Are as mysterious as the dark side of the moon


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## 0+n*1 (Sep 20, 2013)

9s: They don't go against themselves to avoid or deny conflict.They simply let others kill each other. They don't deny conflict. They are aware it's there and they don't understand why so much waste.


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## Quernus (Dec 8, 2011)

I see 3 as a rather vulnerable type.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

spectralsparrow said:


> I see 3 as a rather vulnerable type.


somewhat true, but
- they hide it better than other types (with, say, 2, 4 and 6, the vulnerability is much more apparent) 
- they have accomplishments to back up their security when others don't give them praise, so they can last longer without an "attaboy" than 2s and Social 6s


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## 0+n*1 (Sep 20, 2013)

9s: not contented/not agreeing/not conforming to everything. I thought that was a given since we are human. In fact, I think 9s are specially aware of those things. If they are self-aware enough, they'll realize those are things that they need to put a finger on. I do, at least.


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## Quernus (Dec 8, 2011)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> somewhat true, but
> - they hide it better than other types (with, say, 2, 4 and 6, the vulnerability is much more apparent)


Yes, but that's just the thing... they do hide it better, so I don't think many others think of 3 as a very vulnerable type. I didn't, until recently. I've had some misconceptions cleared up about the type, and it's dearer to my heart now. 

Their self-image and sense of worth is largely contingent upon external, tangible, and revocable factors. A Three can spend a lot of time building up their accomplishments, and can have a lot to show for it, but they’re very susceptible to any ***** in their armor (like all image types, really). 

For example, I have a co-worker who is very much a Three. The latter is ALWAYS winning contests, scoring the highest, doing this, managing that. Making sure it’s known (she’s super cool and I like her a lot, so I’m not complaining about this, just observing). I also happen to know she’s going through some very tragic things, and I suspect she’s clinging to status and recognition with a death-grip in order to get by. Of course, there are different levels of health, and it’s understandable for anyone to want to cling to SOMETHING but. It just helped me realize some things about the type.



> - they have accomplishments to back up their security when others don't give them praise, so they can last longer without an "attaboy" than 2s and Social 6s


Yes, but once again... with some things, the more you accomplish, the more you have to lose. I can also relate to that as an image type, even though the focuses are different. That kind of sums up for me what I mean about the vulnerability.


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## DomNapoleon (Jan 21, 2012)

Type 4: I see 4s as much more aggressive than what is described, revengeful, black widows, cannibalistic (specially the Sx instinct). 

Phobic 6w7: Extremely intuitive, extreme bullshits detectors. They recognize bs from miles away, but unfortunately they doubt it. 

Type 7: More like an intellectual charlatan, rather then the party animals that are usually associated with. 

Type 8: I see them as much more passive in reality. They aren't the tigers of the enneagram they are just common normal people trying to make out their lives.


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

@_Phoenix_Rebirth_

It seems more that p6w7s doubt their ability to handle it, which is why they adopt the strategy of ducking out, trying to appear "harmless". When they do act, it's more indirect and subtle because there's a lack of confidence in whether they can deal with things as they are-- which they see very well.

I would add here that a lot of 6w7phobics, on forums especially, call themselves very "trusting" or "naive". At the same time, they show a strong reactive bent in being naturally attuned to hidden clues, even subtle inconsistencies and so on. It's more like once trust is given, they may find it hard to walk away from a situation because they move away from uncertainty. And, they'd still have a lot of mental chatter as they assess their options and ponder the precarious nature of their 'trust'. There's a lot of doubt. 

I find phobic 6s more ingratiating or, at times, calm in appearance, so as not to make enemies or catch negative attention. Though, I don't see them as inherently trusting life or other people. 

So, I have come to realize the faux-positivity (re approach to life) I see in phobic 6w7s. It took me a good while to grasp this lol. Of course, they can be positive, engaging, fun and super friendly individuals. Many of them are rather endearing, but they are still skeptical of the motives of others and focus on what's hidden, what doesn't add up etc. Inwardly, they can have this darkness and angst rooted in their, as I noted, skeptical natures, and they engage in more questioning and subtle testing.

It's not unusual for 6w7s who are very friendly or whatever to overstate how positive they are, and it's where I think they equate their engaging personality as being the same as the 7's optimism bias. I found 6w7s to often be more 'bubbly' than 7w6s, who can seem more frustrated, and they have a darker edge rooted in the frustration I mentioned (as opposed all sparkly rainbow shitting 'free spirited' hippy ass brouhaha) and an arid inner landscape that can make them not just somewhat restless but also rather critical or even snappy, when their hedonistic desires (this can be an intellectual hedonism or just self-absorbed emotional indulgence, as opposed to material hedonism- drinking and partying etc.) crash against reality. They seem to place less conscious effort on the "appearance" of positivity, no matter how entertaining some of them may be. 


I also agree about the intellectually charlatanry of 7s. Agreed with the other points, as well. 

@_Swordsman of Mana_

8s follow their own "justice", first and foremost. In that sense, they are sensitive to injustice or being disadvantaged or disempowered or left out of the loop. 

The 8's virtue is magnanimity, and they have a growth arrow to 2. So, they can be very generous. Based on a mix of life experience and/or instincts, this generosity may show more towards their immediate family or lover or an interest in social causes involving people whose struggles strike a personal chord with the 8.

Naranjo calls Social 8s (and, I'd add 8s who have charitable, social justice etc. leanings from life experience) the counter-type for a reason. 

___

*Type 1*- 

There's one misunderstanding about superego types that has come up in conversations with friends when discussing 1 fixers. This made me want to address this longstanding misunderstanding, yet again. A lot of people associate goodness with being a superego type, which is absolute rubbish. I'll address this superego=goodness thing in relation to 2 and 6, as well. I may start a thread on the Enneagram's Freudian associations. I'll do Ones for now. 


How good or bad a Type 1 is does not have much to do with your perception of their actions as opposed to their own ideal of goodness (intentional goodness)- which may lead to pretty fucked up shit based on the Ones own ideals and goals (terrorism, genocide? lol or even just other forms of abusive behaviours in their private lives).

There are some Ones who are very "stingy", so to speak and would not drop a penny on helping what they consider an alien population. There are Ones who don't care about ensuring the "just" treatment of others, and they're much more detached and dry than they're made out to be. I've had Ones (actually just this morning) watch me speak up in a situation where a child was being mistreated, and they told me they'd probably have walked away, condemned the mistreatment in their head but walked away. 

I, especially, love how this contrasts with 8 stereotypes of being heartless hardasses. 8s have a more visceral, simplistic and emotive approach to justice (no matter how small the scale of its impact may be [just their own or family's just treatment or more broad concerns]), which makes them more likely, at times, to speak up and intervene. In this, I agree with RH when they say that 8s can have a soft spot for innocence which may compel them to act in a more impassioned manner than 1s. Though, 1w2s (often Social first or even Sx first) can take action as opposed to expressing detached criticism alone. It still comes from a place of impersonal principles on right/wrong conduct. It's more personal for 8s. 

There are 8s, 7s and 3s who are deeply affected by endemic poverty or inequality or mistreatment of vulnerable individuals (children, for example) or what have you. Some of them take great initiative to help reduce the same or may spread awareness about the same, even if at a small scale.

Basically, a lot of people go around barking about the 'callous' 'selfish' badassery of ID types are just imbecilic tryhards clinging to a contrived image to feel better about themselves. 

Evolved and mature individuals of every type behave in compassionate, whole-hearted and respectable ways.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Phoenix_Rebirth said:


> Type 4: I see 4s as much more aggressive than what is described, revengeful, black widows, cannibalistic (specially the Sx instinct).


Sx 4s: yes!
So and Sp 4s: often



> Phobic 6w7: Extremely intuitive, extreme bullshits detectors. They recognize bs from miles away, but unfortunately they doubt it.


yes!



> Type 7: More like an intellectual charlatan, rather then the party animals that are usually associated with.


sometimes. 7s can range from more intellectual to thoughtless hedonists. depends on the specific form of escapism used, other personality factors (wing, MBTI etc) and level of health. 



> Type 8: I see them as much more passive in reality. They aren't the tigers of the enneagram they are just common normal people trying to make out their lives.


what do you mean by "passive"? I would agree they're less passionate and usually not as charismatic as described online, but I don't think "passive" is the word I'd use, more like "down to earth" (as opposed to out trying to conquer an empire). I think lots of 8 descriptions lean in favor or an 8w7 with a heavy 7 wing. other 8s are far less grandiose and can even appear drab and aesthetically dull.


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## HighClassSavage (Nov 29, 2012)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> what do you mean by "passive"? I would agree they're less passionate and usually not as charismatic as described online, but I don't think "passive" is the word I'd use, more like "down to earth" (as opposed to out trying to conquer an empire). I think lots of 8 descriptions lean in favor or an 8w7 with a heavy 7 wing. other 8s are far less grandiose and can even appear drab and aesthetically dull.


No, I would have to agree with @Phoenix_Rebirth, though down to earth still applies. 

For reference, let's use the following definition of passive: "accepting or allowing what happens or what others do, without active response or resistance."

It's not as if I'm always going to confront, challenge, or control other people and situations because I've learned on many, many occasions that it's simply not worth expending the time and energy to do so, just because I don't fucking like what's happening in my environment. And believe me, there's a lot of shit I don't fucking like. It's just something I've had to learn to deal with, by controlling my anger, and learning to accept some of the shit going on around me. So long as something isn't adversely affecting me directly or getting in my way, I honestly could not give a fuck most of the time.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Gentleman Bastard said:


> No, I would have to agree with @Phoenix_Rebirth, though down to earth still applies.
> For reference, let's use the following definition of passive: "accepting or allowing what happens or what others do, without active response or resistance."
> It's not as if I'm always going to confront, challenge, or control other people and situations because I've learned on many, many occasions that it's simply not worth expending the time and energy to do so, just because I don't fucking like what's happening in my environment. And believe me, there's a lot of shit I don't fucking like. It's just something I've had to learn to deal with, by controlling my anger, and learning to accept some of the shit going on around me. So long as something isn't adversely affecting me directly or getting in my way, I honestly could not give a fuck most of the time.


ok, using that definition, I could see how 8s could be considered passive.


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## HighClassSavage (Nov 29, 2012)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> ok, using that definition, I could see how 8s could be considered passive.


Well, I still wouldn't say 8s are passive, just more passive than how they're often described.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Gentleman Bastard said:


> Well, I still wouldn't say 8s are passive, just more passive than how they're often described.


I agree. I think there is a sort of "bah! humbug!" quality to most gut center types that gives them a less responsive, somewhat boring quality to them


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

@Cosmic Orgasm
I have two disagreements with your post
1) frankly, I think most Id types _do_ have sociopathic leanings (either subtle or not-so-subtle). obviously, healthier exemplars are of any type are NOT going to be sociopathic, but such tendencies (or, at least, temptations) tend to emerge under stress (I realize I was probably one of the people you were referring to with regards to Id types)
2) I don't disagree with what you said about 1 (many _are_ dry and lack the action oriented approach to justice than a healthy 8 has, particularly if Sp dom and/or 1w9), what I disagree with is that I think most people's interpretation of 1 as a whole is _more_ dry than the reality. I think your typical 1 is less rule oriented and more fiery/heroic than descriptions of them seem to suggest (particularly if 7 or 6w7 fixed. 5 and 6w5 fixed 1s are boring as fuck lol). there is an 8-ish aggression to 1s that is waiting to come out (though awareness of said aggression will vary drastically)


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## Sixty Nein (Feb 13, 2011)

Elfboy said:


> *9s*"I don't have the energy for this..."


To be honest this is honestly sounding more like some sort of 5 to me, because that is more focused on Avarice, the conservation of oneself more than Sloth, which is in many cases the exact opposite of that. The forgetfulness of oneself. I think a better phrasing of this is that the type 9 is generally incapable of both receiving and giving Love. They don't really love themselves and as such, try to minimize their presence and to accommodate those around them in order to have a final grasp of love from someone else. They don't particularly give no fucks about themselves. 

7s are less hedonistic and more likely to have a prophetic edge to them. It's like that they are always right about something on some level and that by being completely wrong about something would be utterly devastating to the 7.

I think 3s are actually the most ID-ish type in the enneagram not particularly the 7/8 really. Even in the most visceral since, ego vengeance implies some sort of super-egoish activity in that there was once good but that goodness was lost so I might as well just attack who is responsible for it. 7's superego is around the need for everything to be O-Kay and that they are right, and there is no need to be sad or anything like that. 3's on the hand seem to be a tad different, even their super ego is less of a philosophy of good being lost rather than just the need to just sort of survive by oneself. I think the reason why I came to this particular conclusion was a vague remembrance of Revy's from Black Lagoon's past in the cynical nature of it all. Something along the lines of "I was treated like shit, and I had nobody to rely on, so I just did what I did because I needed to survive and thrive". That as a whole is less super ego to me than anything else.

As I whole I don't really think that any of the head types are particularly intellectual instead of just not really being y'know...being actually present. This goes beyond being an intuitive in the MBTI, because intuition actually is a way of showing you what is going on in the present, just the unknown qualities of it. A sensation head type would mostly just sort of use some sort of phantastic version of the present that is more appealing to them, or just whatever is easiest to block of pain and the feeling of not powerful enough to handle reality.

For some reason Te-dominant 2s and particularly does with 2-fixes seem to make a lot of sense, and that they are actually quite common. Particularly of the social subtype.


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## LyeLye (Apr 24, 2014)

@Phoenix_Rebirth

"Type 4: I see 4s as much more aggressive than what is described, revengeful, black widows, cannibalistic (specially the Sx instinct)."

Interesting, because I'm pretty sure I'm a Type 4 Sx and one of my friends said I remind her of a black widow. I don't know how I do, though, because I wouldn't consider myself super vengeful and I don't really date, so . . . Not sure where she got her opinion of me from. Are 4s really that vengeful? I more try to make a point and prove I'm right to the other person, but I forgive people extremely easily, without having to come up with some scheme for vengeance. The Type 1 I sort of have a relationship with would tell you that I'm more prone to withdrawing (or, as he would say, "pouting") than flat out, "bite your head off" aggression. Although, now that I think about it, I can be aggressive when my values are attacked, deemed unworthy or misplaced, so maybe you are right. Never mind my previous question, I guess the answer is yes, Type 4s can be aggressive, haha.

Anyways,

Type 1s: I feel like 1s are even more critical of others, more individualistic, and more egotistical than their description says. It seems to me that sometimes 1s feel that there is only one best move (and they happen to be the ones that came up with it), so they refuse any other suggestions. I would say that their amount of self-restraint is amazing (sometimes they have a little too much, in my opinion), though, which can actually lead them to doing the best thing for everyone. Also, they can be extremely creative.

Type 2s: Extremely passive aggressive. Think mother-in-law. Intelligent, with a smile on their face, but with her own plan at work. However, they tend to be the ones that keep everything from falling apart. They're the glue in relationships.

Type 3s: Hmm, not a lot of experience with Type 3s, but I do have that in my wing. I don't know - I'll have to meet more Type 3s before I can make any generalizations about them.

Type 4s: I don't know - I thought the description for Type 4s fit me pretty well, although I suppose I did just learn that we can be a bit more aggressive than the description says, haha :tongue: I think also the word "envy" sometimes has connotations that are not quite accurate for Type 4s. I don't think 4s are resentful when others succeed, so much as aspiring to that success themselves. I felt like there was a part of the Enneagram's description for the Type 4 where they were trying to say that 4s become resentful at other people's happiness, and I just haven't experienced that myself. But I do experience admiration and yes, an envy, for qualities that I want to possess; however, that doesn't mean I have to hate the person that possesses it.

Type 5s: Less objective, I think, than they want to be. I think Type 5s can sometimes be more similar to Type 4s than Type 1s, which is where I think their perspective clouds objective analysis. But even though they don't care quite as much about their social skills, I tend to find them charming. The 5s I know are actually very sweet and caring when you know them on a one-to-one basis.

Type 6s: Fiery. Actually, the 6s I know perhaps bare more of a resemblance to the black widow. I know quite a lot of 6s actually, and my best friend in particular is extremely vengeful if she feels you've been disloyal. Understandable since loyalty is a really important aspect to Type 6s. Perhaps a bit clingy at times, but I think 4s can be that way too. Personally, I love the 6s in my life. I think 4s and 6s can get along quite well actually.

Type 7s: More insecure, I think, which is surprising because they can come across as quite confident at first. I think their spontaneity can be a little forced sometimes, as a means of distracting themselves. I think they're actually more aware of the risk of putting themselves out there than we give them credit for.

Type 8s: I actually only know one 8 personally, so it makes it a little difficult to generalize them. Good intentions not always executed properly, I suppose, with some out-of-touch ideas.

Type 9s: I actually was once mistyped as a 9, but I don't know if I can say too much about this type, as only one of the people I know is a 9. I will say that he doesn't seem quite as interested in what is going on around him as a peacemaker should probably be.

Just my thoughts on the matter :happy:


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

@LyeLye



> Type 2s: Extremely passive aggressive. Think mother-in-law. Intelligent, with a smile on their face, but with her own plan at work. However, they tend to be the ones that keep everything from falling apart. They're the glue in relationships.


Sp 2s: yes
Sx 2s: often
So 2s: less often



> Type 6s: Fiery. Actually, the 6s I know perhaps bare more of a resemblance to the black widow. I know quite a lot of 6s actually, and my best friend in particular is extremely vengeful if she feels you've been disloyal. Understandable since loyalty is a really important aspect to Type 6s. Perhaps a bit clingy at times, but I think 4s can be that way too. Personally, I love the 6s in my life. I think 4s and 6s can get along quite well actually.


often

@Phoenix_Rebirth


> Type 4: I see 4s as much more aggressive than what is described, revengeful, black widows, cannibalistic (specially the Sx instinct)


yes. I typed as 3w4 fixed for awhile because most descriptions made all 4s look like whiny lil, wrist-cutting Social 4s. Sexual 4 is extremely vengeful and *hateful* (almost Cersei Lannister-ish, even though I still think she's Sexual 6w5)


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## Sixty Nein (Feb 13, 2011)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> yes. I typed as 3w4 fixed for awhile because most descriptions made all 4s look like whiny lil, wrist-cutting Social 4s. Sexual 4 is extremely vengeful and *hateful* (almost Cersei Lannister-ish, even though I still think she's Sexual 6w5)


6 isn't exactly the first thing that comes to mind with Cersei. She is rather strategic, but that alone doesn't make her a head type. I'm rather interested in why you think that is the case, but I have been procrastinating reading the Game of Thrones books, so I might be missing something important.

My own typings of her would probably be 3 > 8 > 4/6. The later of which is improbable but not impossible. Sexual is spot on tho.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Necrophilous said:


> 6 isn't exactly the first thing that comes to mind with Cersei. She is rather strategic, but that alone doesn't make her a head type. I'm rather interested in why you think that is the case, but I have been procrastinating reading the Game of Thrones books, so I might be missing something important.
> My own typings of her would probably be 3 > 8 > 4/6. The later of which is improbable but not impossible. Sexual is spot on tho.


where is the drive for competence, accomplishment or acclaim? she has none of these. she's just a needlessly hateful bitch who wants the power to look out for "her people". that's about it. Sexual 6w5 or Sexual 4w3 with an 8 fix are all I can see for her


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## Sixty Nein (Feb 13, 2011)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> where is the drive for competence, accomplishment or acclaim? she has none of these. she's just a needlessly hateful bitch who wants the power to look out for "her people". that's about it. Sexual 6w5 or Sexual 4w3 with an 8 fix are all I can see for her


You have a point, I wasn't exactly looking at it very deeply but at that point I would say that she would be more like a 8 than either of the two above. My 3 typing is a tad silly though I must admit, don't know what I was thinking there. Is there anything particularly 6ish about her outside of being paranoid? I honestly don't know, but you did alleviate the 6 and 4 typing to a high degree. The 4ness would come from her desiring to be like her brother, but never really able to actually do so because of her physical sex. In fact you are right now that I think about it. Damn I suck at typing.

I wonder what you'd type Tyrion Lannister. I'd figure him as being a 6 of...some subtype. He'd probably fit into some innately cynical type at least, though he does seem to plan out more.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Necrophilous said:


> You have a point, I wasn't exactly looking at it very deeply but at that point I would say that she would be more like a 8 than either of the two above.


she spends too much time barking and making threats; less time doing shit than an 8. she is powerful merely because of her position and has little real personal power



> My 3 typing is a tad silly though I must admit, don't know what I was thinking there. Is there anything particularly 6ish about her outside of being paranoid? I honestly don't know, but you did alleviate the 6 and 4 typing to a high degree. The 4ness would come from her desiring to be like her brother, but never really able to actually do so because of her physical sex. In fact you are right now that I think about it. Damn I suck at typing.
> I wonder what you'd type Tyrion Lannister. I'd figure him as being a 6 of...some subtype. He'd probably fit into some innately cynical type at least, though he does seem to plan out more.


mostly the mindset of "everyone is an enemy except us".


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

@OT
*5s:* can display a kind of arrogant cowardice, disguised as "objectivity", smugly hurling insults at you while they hide safely behind their castle walls. :dry:


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## SweetPickles (Mar 19, 2012)

This is tough because I usually see them the way they are defined, but I will try 

1: Lonely, have good intentions
2: Yearn to be loved; want to be the "most popular", good heart, jealous...way more than 4's.
3: Insecure; secretly sensitive
4: Go from viewing themselves as special to utter shit, uneasy, self-centered yet very empathetic
5: Low maintenance, more simple (not simple-minded) than you would think, need hugs even if they hate them
6: All over the place, complex, looks can be deceiving type, unassuming and suspicious, contradictory, chameleons
7: walking Prozac, dangerous, clever
8: Secret Teddy Bears
9: Seem to have life figured out IMO


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## d e c a d e n t (Apr 21, 2013)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> @OT
> *5s:* can display a kind of arrogant cowardice, disguised as "objectivity", smugly hurling insults at you while they hide safely behind their castle walls. :dry:


Been having any arguments with 5s lately? :tongue:


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Kink said:


> Been having any arguments with 5s lately? :tongue:


not recently, but several in the past. there was one side I was on that was full of arrogant, pseudo-intellectual Social 5w6s and Social 6w5s who would always band together against me like a bunch of cowardly pussies because my views offended them :dry:


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## d e c a d e n t (Apr 21, 2013)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> not recently, but several in the past. there was one side I was on that was full of arrogant, pseudo-intellectual Social 5w6s and Social 6w5s who would always band together against me like a bunch of cowardly pussies because my views offended them :dry:


Ah, I figured it was a recent thing since you posted that now, but I guess it's bad memories coming up? Anyway, what kind of stuff would they say?


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Kink said:


> Ah, I figured it was a recent thing since you posted that now, but I guess it's bad memories coming up? Anyway, what kind of stuff would they say?


they would just twist my words around with all these confusing, pseudo-intellectual arguments (might as well have called that place "the strawman forum" cuz holy shit...)


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## d e c a d e n t (Apr 21, 2013)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> they would just twist my words around with all these confusing, pseudo-intellectual arguments (might as well have called that place "the strawman forum" cuz holy shit...)


I wonder if a lot of them were Ti-doms as well? :tongue:

Oh, this was a forum? Now I'm curious. >.>


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Kink said:


> I wonder if a lot of them were Ti-doms as well? :tongue:


lots of NTPs, yes



> Oh, this was a forum? Now I'm curious. >.>


it was a gay forum, but for some reason it was full of pissy NTPs


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## mental blockstack (Dec 15, 2011)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> *1s:* more proud, less subordinate to external authority, enjoy "righteous punishment" (if/when they allow themselves to indulge in it)
> *2s:* more conceited, more aggressive, more confident/assertive, often manipulative and childish, more dramatic
> *3s:* more strategic, less narcissistic, less concerned with the acceptance of others, more independence seeking
> *4s:* more elitist (esp 4w3), angrier
> ...


Makes me want to "destroy the 1s" (from a totally w1 standpoint )

I want to be your view of type 3... either 3w2 or 3w4


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> not recently, but several in the past. there was one side I was on that was full of arrogant, pseudo-intellectual Social 5w6s and Social 6w5s who would always band together against me like a bunch of cowardly pussies because my views offended them :dry:


Sounds a bit odd for 5s, even social ones with a 6 wing.


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## Tater Tot (May 28, 2012)

I think 1's are more like the regular 2 description. It would make sense for 1 to feel the need to 'serve' and help out because of how their superego dictates them.

I think 2's are more like a typical 3 description. Also, 3's are less worried about being liked and more worried about the identity they want to create for themselves, kind of like a 4. The difference is that 3's identity forms through their reputation and accomplishments, and 4's identity forms through their feelings and imaginations.

9's personalities are more variable and dynamic. Too much focus is put on the dreamer and peacemaker traits and it seems like they have no personality at all. This CAN be true, and in a sense probably is true at _their most basic_ form, but like a description says, they can take on the traits of every other type that there is. I think probably when you take into account 9's chameleonic quality and their need to check out, they actually fluctuate between the different characteristics and coping mechanisms of other types, but then just always return to their 'home base,' which is sloth.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Tater Tot said:


> I think 1's are more like the regular 2 description. It would make sense for 1 to feel the need to 'serve' and help out because of how their superego dictates them.


kinda (more like Social 7s are)



> I think 2's are more like a typical 3 description. Also, 3's are less worried about being liked and more worried about the identity they want to create for themselves, kind of like a 4. The difference is that 3's identity forms through their reputation and accomplishments, and 4's identity forms through their feelings and imaginations.


YES!



> 9's personalities are more variable and dynamic. Too much focus is put on the dreamer and peacemaker traits and it seems like they have no personality at all. This CAN be true, and in a sense probably is true at _their most basic_ form, but like a description says, they can take on the traits of every other type that there is. I think probably when you take into account 9's chameleonic quality and their need to check out, they actually fluctuate between the different characteristics and coping mechanisms of other types, but then just always return to their 'home base,' which is sloth.


I could see that (though I have difficulty picturing them ever looking like 8w7 lol)


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## Tater Tot (May 28, 2012)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> kinda (more like Social 7s are)
> 
> 
> YES!
> ...


I can see them being told to be more aggressive and then they try and act like an unhealthy 8.  I think there's a description in the 9 forum that says something like they'll engage in conflict but they're not going to enjoy it like an 8?


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

much of what people view as 7 I view as Sexual 8 (specifically 8w7)




Tater Tot said:


> I can see them being told to be more aggressive and then they try and act like an unhealthy 8.  I think there's a description in the 9 forum that says something like they'll engage in conflict but they're not going to enjoy it like an 8?


I couldn't picture a 9 trying to act like an 8. even the 9w8s with a strong wing that I know all seem almost ashamed of their 8-ish tendencies (in fact, with most of the 9s I've talked to about the Enneagram in general, the two types they seem to hate the most are 8 and 1 lmao!)


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## Tater Tot (May 28, 2012)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> much of what people view as 7 I view as Sexual 8 (specifically 8w7)
> 
> 
> 
> I couldn't picture a 9 trying to act like an 8. even the 9w8s with a strong wing that I know all seem almost ashamed of their 8-ish tendencies (in fact, with most of the 9s I've talked to about the Enneagram in general, the two types they seem to hate the most are 8 and 1 lmao!)


Well maybe not specifically trying to act like an 8, (most people don't know the Enneagram, so they wouldn't know what that was) but trying to be domineering and confrontational in defense against rejection. Then once they get worn out from it they move back to narcotization.  I remember in like 2010 I kept starting fights with people because I was trying to convince myself that I was okay with conflict. It was exhausting. :bored:


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Tater Tot said:


> Well maybe not specifically trying to act like an 8, (most people don't know the Enneagram, so they wouldn't know what that was) but trying to be domineering and confrontational in defense against rejection. Then once they get worn out from it they move back to narcotization.  I remember in like 2010 I kept starting fights with people because I was trying to convince myself that I was okay with conflict. It was exhausting. :bored:


lmao! you probably still seemed pleasant when going about doing that XD


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

with the exception of the Self Preservation subtype, 2 is _not_ a conflict avoidant type. Social 2 and Sexual 2 are powerful personalities and will seldom back down from a conflict.



Swordsman of Mana said:


> lmao! you probably still seemed pleasant when going about doing that XD


on second thought, a 9 trying to be "aggressive" would likely end up becoming passive agressive (which is anything but pleasant)


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## -Alpha- (Dec 30, 2013)




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## LostDude (Jan 8, 2014)

Type 1: Since its a gut type, I'd say it fears more losing it's self control rather than being perfect. Ones seem very aware of the consequences of becoming evil, so they try to control their impulses to not become evil. 
Type 2: More pride, wants to feel loved, affection
Type 3: More on social circle desires to in the highest position, makes imagine to blend in 
Type 4: More emotionally violate identifies with their emotions viewing them as authentic 
Type 5: More arrogant, passive aggressive, argumentative
Type 6: Alot more harsh and cruel
Type 7: Alot more diabolical and whiny crybabies 
Type 8: More insecure about being venerable, puts others down 
Type 9: Alot more emotionally cold


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

LostDude said:


> Type 1: Since its a gut type, I'd say it fears more losing it's self control rather than being perfect. Ones seem very aware of the consequences of becoming evil, so they try to control their impulses to not become evil.


sort of. being good to avoid bad consequences is more 6



> Type 2: More pride, wants to feel loved, affection


yup (though I don't think there is much controversy over the last two points)



> Type 3: More on social circle desires to in the highest position, makes imagine to blend in


yup



> Type 4: More emotionally violate identifies with their emotions viewing them as authentic


did you mean to say "emotionally volatile" or "emotionally violent"?



> Type 5: More arrogant, passive aggressive, argumentative


yes! they call down insults from their high tower/castle walls, but without those walls to hide behind, they are timid and weak



> Type 6: Alot more harsh and cruel


not always, but often (especially with Sx first or strong secondary Sx)



> Type 7: Alot more diabolical and whiny crybabies


Sp 7 is diabolical, Sx and So 7s not so much



> Type 8: More insecure about being venerable, puts others down


eh, I don't agree with this one



> Type 9: Alot more emotionally cold


matches my experience at least. people mistake their desire for harmony for actually caring, when in reality they are coldly apathetic about most things/people.


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## LostDude (Jan 8, 2014)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> sort of. being good to avoid bad consequences is more 6
> 
> 
> 
> ...


1- I was meaning that they fear deviation. They fear letting their evil desires come in and must be good as possible. They hate corrupting others and themselves so they try to be good as possible. Ones are greatly aware that it is hard to let go of temptation and fear that they will decline as a person. 
4- both


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

LostDude said:


> 1- I was meaning that they fear deviation. They fear letting their evil desires come in and must be good as possible. They hate corrupting others and themselves so they try to be good as possible. Ones are greatly aware that it is hard to let go of temptation and fear that they will decline as a person.


yeah



> 4- both


in that case, both apply to Sexual 4, but only "emotionally volatile" applies to Social 4 and neither apply to Self Preservation 4.


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## randomshoes (Dec 11, 2013)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> Sp 7 is diabolical, Sx and So 7s not so much


YES. I am DIABOLICAL.



> matches my experience at least. people mistake their desire for harmony for actually caring, when in reality they are coldly apathetic about most things/people.


Exactly! They're really cold and impermeable and hard to get listen to you, whatever the image they project may be.


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## Ummon (Jun 16, 2014)

1s: more conflicted about feeling proud (like they have character traits to feel proud of, but don't want to be prideful)
2s: more outwardly confident, quicker to judge
3s: more significant conflict over need for independence and desire to conform to/ partake in a group
4s: are exactly what the type descriptions say. XD
5s: less impartial
6s: more skeptical/ironic in a comedic way (aka. funnier)
7s: more concerned with coming up with original ideas
8s: more protective, more significant focus on bettering themselves
9s: more individualistic


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

I love the qualifier:



> 5s: less intellectual (*except Social 5s*)



I'm inclined to agree. 5 is generally more about _knowledge_ than intellect. The social dom 5 (such as myself) incorporates the need to be able to _communicate what they know to others_, therefore we are probably going to demonstrate intellectual refinement that might not be as prevalent in the Sx or Sp dom 5.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

6 is not the most varied type. 
Suffering from anxiety is not the same as being a head type. 
Gut types are not anti-intellectual. 
Naranjo is mostly off. 
Lust is not about "physical appetite" but a desire for intensity and experiencing extremes. 
A lot of what people think is 8 is actually 7.


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## d e c a d e n t (Apr 21, 2013)

Entropic said:


> 6 is not the most varied type.


Do you think any type is the most varied type?


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Kink said:


> Do you think any type is the most varied type?


Exactly. No type is. It's a dumb idea in the first place and just makes no sense when you spend some time thinking about it.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Entropic said:


> Exactly. No type is. It's a dumb idea in the first place and just makes no sense when you spend some time thinking about it.


the problem is that you think types are so varied that you can make endless justifications for anyone being type __.


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## Lord Bullingdon (Aug 9, 2014)

Entropic said:


> Exactly. No type is. It's a dumb idea in the first place and just makes no sense when you spend some time thinking about it.





Swordsman of Mana said:


> the problem is that you think types are so varied that you can make endless justifications for anyone being type __.


If I may join the debate. 

That's what I thought at first, too--type 6 is the most varied type. It's everywhere, and when I got into online commenting, that's what I kept hearing from others. 

But why? I think it originates with Naranjo saying that it's hard to speak of a "single character" when referencing the 6. He categorizes the "weak" SP 6, the "prussian" SOC 6, and the "strong" SX 6. But are these categorizations as clear cut as it sounds on paper? Probably not. Most 6s I've met show signs of all three tendencies, and many online have insisted the categories aren't that clear (hence the 6's perplexing nature).

Then again, by that same logic, each type has "three versions". If you factor in tritypes and MBTI, this can throw out some very unlikely combinations as well (for instance, 4s are generally seen as wanting to explore their vulnerability; how does an 8-fix change the presentation of this if the 8's nature is to avoid vulnerability? Similar thoughts on 2 and 5, 7 and 4. 7 and 2, blah blah. Etc.) 

We can act totally in accordance with the demands of our dominant instinct, and totally against them. The same with our core fixation. It is possible to move against its demands, hence the concept of the "counter type". That adds complexity to the process.

Your background and upbringing will also help determine how you cope with things. I'm clearly not a 9, but I was taught by 9 friends, family, and teachers to just ignore things _so many times_ that one of my adopted responses is just to nullify the existence of something I don't want to deal with currently. I doubt I'd be like this if I'd been raised in another family. My way of relating to people was also shaped by early rejection at school. I now act in ways very contrary to my initial orientation. Same to each human being on this planet--our circumstances and upbringing shape us, sometimes in very profound ways.

_And_, needless to say, there are issues. Real world issues. Traumas. Crises. Circumstances where there are no enneagram-ready solutions, where people are forced to exceed themselves and use defenses beyond what we ever thought we had. These things aren't accounted for by enneagram, but are actually better explained by mainstream psychology. If you've dealt with these issues all your life, this too could add layers of complexity to your typing process.

So, I find it a bit misleading myself--and insulting to the capacities of the types--to claim one is more diverse than another. We're people, we're complex, and sometimes there is no "pat" formula. Yeah, you can use this to justify bullshit, but you can also use it to really understand the different components of the enneagram, hence _stripping away_ the bullshit that accrues when speaking in terms of behavioral aggregates. 

I'm not taking sides here, but the "sixes are the most variegated" thing kind of annoys me too. I like to keep an open mind about how type dynamics could be influenced by outlandish circumstances.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> the problem is that you think types are so varied that you can make endless justifications for anyone being type __.


Isn't that exactly what you _are_ doing though? I never claim type X + instinct looks like type Y + instinct. If there's something that leads to confusion it's _that_ because if two types can look the same, then how do you actually tell them apart? The very foundational idea of what I wrote stems from the fact that no type should inherently be more varied nor cannot be more varied than any other type simply because people are so much more complex and nuanced than just being a type. If you operate with the logic that every person is infinitely complex which leads to infinite variety, then the types that best fit them must also by definition _appear _as infinitely varied. Key word here is "appear as", which is not the same as "being the same". Hence in order to accurately type you need to cut through all the appearances bullcrap because again, that just leads to confusion. 

As The Typeless Wonder wrote, it's arrogant as a position to suggest that 6s are more varied than other types as if suggesting 6s are more unique or better than other types, and it's just unfair to all the types as a whole plus it's doing type 6 an incredible disservice because it paints the type into this ridiculous caricature that's just so removed from actual people.


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## Arya (Oct 17, 2012)

Entropic said:


> 6 is not the most varied type.
> Suffering from anxiety is not the same as being a head type.
> Gut types are not anti-intellectual.
> Naranjo is mostly off.
> ...


They are not the most varied, but they probably have the most erratic behavior from an outside perspective. It completely defeats the point of type six if they don't. But I will say that personally as a six myself it is easy to predict the behavior of my six friends. We have a set pattern of unpredictability in order to meet the unpredictability of life.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Arya said:


> They are not the most varied, but they probably have the most erratic behavior from an outside perspective. It completely defeats the point of type six if they don't. But I will say that personally as a six myself it is easy to predict the behavior of my six friends. We have a set pattern of unpredictability in order to meet the unpredictability of life.


I wouldn't say so. No more outside seemingly erratic than any other type because no person is truly rational in the first place. I don't like how you are painting a picture of type 6 of some super-anxious insecure kind of person that seems incapable to act from the point of reason. Why do your own type such a disservice?


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## The King Of Dreams (Aug 18, 2010)

Ummon said:


> 1s: more conflicted about feeling proud (like they have character traits to feel proud of, but don't want to be prideful)
> 2s: more outwardly confident, quicker to judge
> 3s: more significant conflict over need for independence and desire to conform to/ partake in a group
> 4s: are exactly what the type descriptions say. XD
> ...


I have to agree that I as a 9 am individualistic. I like to go by the beat of my own drum (when others deviate from my value system) but if it's a "no harm-No foul" situation then I go along.


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## Arya (Oct 17, 2012)

Entropic said:


> I wouldn't say so. No more outside seemingly erratic than any other type because no person is truly rational in the first place. I don't like how you are painting a picture of type 6 of some super-anxious insecure kind of person that seems incapable to act from the point of reason. Why do your own type such a disservice?


I didn't paint that picture at all. That entirely misses the point. Type six follows reason to the point that their behaviors change to whatever they see as most logical for each situation they are in, hence you cannot say type sixes act one way in response to something. They will change up their behaviors in favor of what seems most logical. Nothing to do with super anxious or not acting from point of reason. I said neither of those things. You just made all of that up. They seem erratic to others. But they are in no way erratic. They have complex mental maps that looks erratic from the outside. And when I say logical I do not even mean they are a more logical type. I mean they follow their own internal idea of logic to the point that their behaviors change


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Arya said:


> I didn't paint that picture at all. That entirely misses the point. Type six follows reason to the point that their behaviors change to whatever they see as most logical for each situation they are in, hence you cannot say type sixes act one way in response to something. They will change up their behaviors in favor of what seems most logical. Nothing to do with super anxious or not acting from point of reason. I said neither of those things. You just made all of that up. They seem erratic to others. But they are in no way erratic. They have complex mental maps that looks erratic from the outside. And when I say logical I do not even mean they are a more logical type. I mean they follow their own internal idea of logic to the point that their behaviors change


And I just told you that I don't think type 6 has to look erratic. When you use words like erratic to describe the type, it's pretty difficult to not get the impression that you are painting the picture of someone whose anxiety makes them constantly act against seemingly reasonable behavior in any given minute. 

Think about it a minute further - what person would NOT change their behaviors based on what seems to be the most logical in any given situation regardless if that makes sense to others on the outside? People are well capable of doing that without being a type 6. Behavingly erratic to a supposed outsider is not the point of type 6 at all.


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## Arya (Oct 17, 2012)

Entropic said:


> And I just told you that I don't think type 6 has to look erratic. When you use words like erratic to describe the type, it's pretty difficult to not get the impression that you are painting the picture of someone whose anxiety makes them constantly act against seemingly reasonable behavior in any given minute.
> 
> Think about it a minute further - what person would NOT change their behaviors based on what seems to be the most logical in any given situation regardless if that makes sense to others on the outside? People are well capable of doing that without being a type 6. Behavingly erratic to a supposed outsider is not the point of type 6 at all.


Do you insist upon missing the point every time? I didn't mean that either. What I meant is that a type six is not a type six without the complex mental maze, and no, other types do not have that that. A type one will never have that same mental maze. They are in the instinctual realm. It doesn't matter whether they are even Ti dom, for instance. They will still follow their instincts. A type six is not a type six unless they generally choose to follow cerebral logic over instincts or feelings in order to make them most safe. And there is not another type who does this in the way the type six does. So yeah, basically a lot of people don't change their behavior based upon weighing out their thoughts in the manner that sixes do. Type fours base most of their behaviors on how they feel. Their feelings become a part of their identity. Type ones base their ideas of what is right on their instincts, not on a logical thought process. There is nothing instinctual about sixes. They are all thinking. They generally prefer to not follow emotion either. And they will weigh out every single thought they have and compare them until they reach a conclusion. And it LOOKS erratic because the average person cannot comprehend the amount of thinking that went into one single decision. It may seem like it came out of nowhere, when in reality it was all well reasoned out in order to keep themselves most stable. This is why I have had people confused at how I could so easily flip flop from acting sweet and innocent in one situation to upfront and bossy in another. Because I had thought out very carefully how I should act and so I displayed a fundamentally different side of myself. The amount of scheming I do on a daily basis would probably come as a shock to most people. It's basically a non stop let up of reasoning. Give me another type who does this.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Arya said:


> Do you insist upon missing the point every time? I didn't mean that either. What I meant is that a type six is not a type six without the complex mental maze, and no, other types do not have that that.


Of course they will but it will be a very different kind of maze. It's not like being complex is unique to type 6. 



> A type one will never have that same mental maze. They are in the instinctual realm. It doesn't matter whether they are even Ti dom, for instance. They will still follow their instincts.


What does it mean to follow one's "instincts"? I am not sure you understand the point of the gut triad. 



> A type six is not a type six unless they generally choose to follow cerebral logic over instincts or feelings in order to make them most safe.


I think this _does_ miss the point of type 6. I would say what signifies the head triad is not so much cerebral activity as it is existential anxiety. 



> And there is not another type who does this in the way the type six does.


So tell me what's the similarity between an ESFP 6 and an ISTJ 6 in terms of cognitive thought and behavior since these two types will have entirely different ways of how they cognize their understanding of the world and if one is into socionics, Viktor Gulenko also proposes that they favor two vastly different cognitive styles. 



> So yeah, basically a lot of people don't change their behavior based upon weighing out their thoughts in the manner that sixes do. Type fours base most of their behaviors on how they feel.


And I think this is a misunderstanding of the heart center. The heart center is not about feelings. That's why you get dumb ideas that suggests only F types in the MBTI can be heart types and only T types can be head types. The heart and head triad are not about feelings or cerebral activity. It's not really what constitute the respective centers at all. 



> Their feelings become a part of their identity.


I would say it's not so much feelings themselves but how one existentially orients oneself to feelings that matters. Type 4 has a specific relationship to the feeling of shame wherein they feel that their existence is deeply shameful in some way and they adopt a specific structure in order to cope with this which ends up being the type structure we now refer to as type 4. 



> Type ones base their ideas of what is right on their instincts, not on a logical thought process.


Hence we end up with another one I disagree with is a dumb myth that is being propagated, that is, that being a gut type somehow means one cannot be intelligent or possess intellectual capacity in some way. No, the point of the gut triad has to do with space and boundaries. Do I take up space, how do others possess space, how is my space affected by others' taking up of space etc. Gut types are just more strongly oriented towards a sense of boundaries and have adopted different methods of how to manage theirs' and the boundaries of others. 



> There is nothing instinctual about sixes. They are all thinking. They generally prefer to not follow emotion either. And they will weigh out every single thought they have and compare them until they reach a conclusion. And it LOOKS erratic because the average person cannot comprehend the amount of thinking that went into one single decision.


I'm close to two 6s, one very intimately. I can't say I think either of them seem to behave or act very irrationally. No more irrational than the average person anyway. Similarly, there are people who I think may behave irrationally who are _not_ 6s. 



> It may seem like it came out of nowhere, when in reality it was all well reasoned out in order to keep themselves most stable. This is why I have had people confused at how I could so easily flip flop from acting sweet and innocent in one situation to upfront and bossy in another. Because I had thought out very carefully how I should act and so I displayed a fundamentally different side of myself. The amount of scheming I do on a daily basis would probably come as a shock to most people. It's basically a non stop let up of reasoning. Give me another type who does this.


Yup, I can. It's for example common in people who suffer from borderline. In fact, what you described as switching between two very thought out states that seem extreme in this way is actually one of the defining qualities of borderline and type 2 clusters of personality disorders. If one is going to be like that, Naranjo actually linked borderline with type 4, not 6.


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## cir (Oct 4, 2013)

Calling the body triad the "instinctive triad" triad is confusing. I'm a big fan of adopting the word "will" to describe this triad. The body triad pays attention to *defections* in their expressions of _will_, as opposed to heart:image and head:thought (existentially, I think, therefore I am).

Because the existence of so/sp/sx _instincts_ means that _everyone_ has instincts. Even sixes.

And even though I'm not a type one, I find this kind of offensive and patently false.


> Type ones base their ideas of what is right on their instincts, not on a logical thought process.


Body types don't have a monopoly on "instincts"/"expressions of will", image types don't have a monopoly on "emotions"/"expressions of image", and head types don't have a monopoly on "mind-maze"/"expressions of thought". To be a fully functional human being, you need *all* of those skills.

Perhaps everyone's lenses prevent some important information from being noticed and why certain types "appear" like other types. Just adjust accordingly.



> It may seem like it came out of nowhere, when in reality it was all well reasoned out in order to keep themselves most stable


 Ok, but "in reality", to other people, it looks like it came out of nowhere.


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## mushr00m (May 23, 2011)

things need to be read in the context appropriate to that field sometimes. :dry:


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

tanstaafl28 said:


> I love the qualifier:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm inclined to agree. 5 is generally more about _knowledge_ than intellect. The social dom 5 (such as myself) incorporates the need to be able to _communicate what they know to others_, therefore we are probably going to demonstrate intellectual refinement that might not be as prevalent in the Sx or Sp dom 5.


I wouldn't even say "knowledge" as much as "resources", which aid in 5's desire to _hide_ and build up a fortress behind which they can shield themselves from the harsh, dangerous, unforgiving world.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> I wouldn't even say "knowledge" as much as "resources", which aid in 5's desire to _hide_ and build up a fortress behind which they can shield themselves from the harsh, dangerous, unforgiving world.


That sounds more SP like to me. I'm So/Sx. I consider others part of my "knowledge-base" (or "resource-base," if you will). I vacillate between hiding and revealing quite a bit. It just depends on whether I feel confident enough in what I know to take a stand on it, or not. I have noticed that I am more prone to withdrawal when my 8w7 wife is away, too. She seems to give me a "boost" just by being there. She's out of town right now, and all I want to do is hide in our house and overdose on books and documentaries.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

tanstaafl28 said:


> That sounds more SP like to me. I'm So/Sx. I consider others part of my "knowledge-base" (or "resource-base," if you will). I vacillate between hiding and revealing quite a bit. It just depends on whether I feel confident enough in what I know to take a stand on it, or not. I have noticed that I am more prone to withdrawal when my 8w7 wife is away, too. She seems to give me a "boost" just by being there. She's out of town right now, and all I want to do is hide in our house and overdose on books and documentaries.


this actually goes along with my theory quite well =)
in the case of the Social 5, the "resources" are intellectual/knowledge based


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## The Exception (Oct 26, 2010)

8's aren't really as tough as the descriptions make them out to be. They appear tough because they don't want to show any weakness but not wanting to show any weakness or vulnerability is in itself a weakness.

2's aren't really as selfless as they appear. Particularly the self-preservation 2's who have a form of entitlement. Give in order to get so to speak. They may not vocalize their desires to receive from you but its there.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Fractals and Pterodactyls said:


> 8's aren't really as tough as the descriptions make them out to be. They appear tough because they don't want to show any weakness but not wanting to show any weakness or vulnerability is in itself a weakness.
> 
> 2's aren't really as selfless as they appear. Particularly the self-preservation 2's who have a form of entitlement. Give in order to get so to speak. They may not vocalize their desires to receive from you but its there.


Depends on how you understand "tough". If I told you my life story, I think you'd be amazed to realize how much I've gone through and still came out as sane and in one piece on the other end of it whereas I've seen people struggling with the problems I've struggle(d) with never managing to lead a normal life again. It's just that the price you need to pay in order to survive this is really high and the other side of that coin is that you give up much of your ability to be able to fully experience life, hence lust.


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