# Engineering and Math



## Tezkatlipoca (May 7, 2012)

So I've been thinking of majoring in mechanical or electrical engineering when I get into college only problem is that I SUCK at math, any of my fellow NT's have any sites/sources in which would allow me to improve my lack of math skill?


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## Magnificent Bastard (Sep 22, 2010)

Tezkatlipoca said:


> So I've been thinking of majoring in mechanical or electrical engineering when I get into college only problem is that I SUCK at math, any of my fellow NT's have any sites/sources in which would allow me to improve my lack of math skill?


khanacademy.com


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## KneeSeekerArrow (Jan 8, 2012)

Read something by Michael Spivak.


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## Tezkatlipoca (May 7, 2012)

Magnificent Bastard said:


> khanacademy.com


I've seen people keep bringing up this site, is it really that good?


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## Tragic (Jan 31, 2011)

I'm not NT but some general pointers:

Treat it like a puzzle to be solved, try your own methods of solving things.

Don't focus on repetitive "now solve this again for the 10th time with different numbers" type problems.

You're never wasting time and never not learning if you're actively engaging your brain in understanding something even if your efforts are fruitless.

Focus on proofs, they are most often more important than the results they prove.


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## L'Empereur (Jun 7, 2010)

Tezkatlipoca said:


> So I've been thinking of majoring in mechanical or electrical engineering when I get into college only problem is that I SUCK at math, any of my fellow NT's have any sites/sources in which would allow me to improve my lack of math skill?


Buy a Ti-89 or some CAS.


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## TrailMix (Apr 27, 2011)

I'm a mechanical engineering major going into my junior year. Math is REALLY important, and is the basis of everything you do. Since I started school here, I've learned to come up with a system to remember how to do everything. I dont know of any sites specifically, but what I do is this:

1. Do my best to map out and understand the concept --- This can mean writing definitions, making your own definitions, anything that helps you to understand what is going on and trying to get a grasp of that

2. See HOW it is applied in different problems --- This can often times help me to understand the concept itself, and to construct rules and eventually master how different scenarios use the concept differently

3. Make a procedure --- Once you've looked over a few of the problems, patterns begin to emerge. Try to simplify these patterns into a step-by-step process, generalizing it to make it usable for all types of applications. Memorize these procedures as you practice

4. PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

5. Practice more!

6. AND MORE UNTIL YOU GET IT!


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## L'Empereur (Jun 7, 2010)

TrailMix said:


> I'm a mechanical engineering major going into my junior year. Math is REALLY important, and is the basis of everything you do. Since I started school here, I've learned to come up with a system to remember how to do everything. I dont know of any sites specifically, but what I do is this:
> 
> 1. Do my best to map out and understand the concept --- This can mean writing definitions, making your own definitions, anything that helps you to understand what is going on and trying to get a grasp of that
> 
> ...


Which math classes have you taken so far?


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## Word Dispenser (May 18, 2012)

Tezkatlipoca said:


> I've seen people keep bringing up this site, is it really that good?


Yes. You can pick up wherever you left off. I have the same issue and am going from the VERY beginning, just so I can see all the shortcuts.


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## Rainbow (Aug 30, 2010)

all i had to do to get excellent at math was pay attention in class and actually care about learning math skills.
get a math tutor, they tend to explain things in several ways so you have a higher chance of understanding and they will go at your pace.


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## bellisaurius (Jan 18, 2012)

The good news is that plenty of engineers only speak math as a second language, ie you need enough to get you through differential equations and calcIII (basically integrals). If you do mechanical, or electrical, i think linear algebra comes into play (matrices and such).

As to the solution, it depends. How much math have you had so far? If you've only done algebra/trig, I will say that while they're important, engineering math is a different creature. Answers don't matter as much as method, so if your problem is more about attention to detail, then you may be OK. 

If you've done calc I (derivatives), then you have an idea what the next few courses are like, but the way they teach these things in the college level is to toss one equation at you a week, which gives you a lot of time to digest it. It's harder at firsy because you'll have to memorize a couple things (individual derivatives and integrals), but it gets easier. 

By the time you've gotten through the math courses, the actual math in engineering actually gets easier. The trick with your engineering classes isn't going to (usually) be the math, it's going to be justifying how you simplified a gigantic partial differential equation into something that can actually be solved. 

I started my engineering classes with only algebra. I had to take the trig in college. You may want to consider signing up to take the classes, or see if you can at least sit in on some at a local community college. Kind of like a trial.

If not, and I advise this for most classes, go to a local used book store, get some books like "calculus for dummies" and the like (don't ever buy these things new). You'll find that having a couple books that explain each topic a little differently allow you to better understand them. I especially recommend older books, they tend to explain things better and give better examples. Sometimes it helps things click, and as an engineer, a library of references is often useful.


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## L'Empereur (Jun 7, 2010)

bellisaurius said:


> The good news is that plenty of engineers only speak math as a second language, ie you need enough to get you through differential equations and calcIII (basically integrals). If you do mechanical, or electrical, i think linear algebra comes into play (matrices and such).
> 
> As to the solution, it depends. How much math have you had so far? If you've only done algebra/trig, I will say that while they're important, engineering math is a different creature. Answers don't matter as much as method, so if your problem is more about attention to detail, then you may be OK.
> 
> ...


Do you actually have to solve PDEs in your career?


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## bellisaurius (Jan 18, 2012)

I would also like to add that while you have to enjoy solving problems that involve math in engineering, by the time you get through those first to years, you've done enough of the math that it becomes much more routine, so it doesn't always detract from what's going on, and there is usually partial credit out the wazoo, and grading curves will occasionally see 30 percent as a passing score (I once saw 12 out of a hundred as a D). 

You'll feel stupid, but so will everyone else. Plus, when you get into the real world, the math tends to become very routine, and much, much easier than the college stuff. I'm a chemical engineer, btw.


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## bellisaurius (Jan 18, 2012)

@L'Empereur

Not as such, but I do have to occasionally apply bernoullis equation, for example; just that it's in the very simplified algebraic form. 

In reality, I see PDE's as a sort of complete sentence: I read it, and pull out the parts that apply. Insies equals outsies.


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## FillInTheBlank (Dec 24, 2011)

I hate to sound redundant here because it may seem obvious, but youtube is always a great site to go on to get clear, comprehensive videos on pretty much every math problem. I learned derivatives off youtube vids and it helped me a lot in calc 1.


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## L'Empereur (Jun 7, 2010)

bellisaurius said:


> @L'Empereur
> 
> Not as such, but I do have to occasionally apply bernoullis equation, for example; just that it's in the very simplified algebraic form.
> 
> In reality, I see PDE's as a sort of complete sentence: I read it, and pull out the parts that apply. Insies equals outsies.


So do you actually use any type of calculus or do you just use algebra?


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## bellisaurius (Jan 18, 2012)

L'Empereur said:


> So do you actually use any type of calculus or do you just use algebra?


You got it. Just algebra. It seems to be pretty common with engineers in other fields I know. I think it's because there's two kinds of engineers, plant engineers and design engineers. Plant engineers are dealing with a pretty standard set of items, and their problems are more along the lines of X identifiable process is going on, for which we've already got an equation (or thumbrule) for, and we put those pieces together. 

One of the few times I came close to using proper calculus, I realized that I just needed to graph the information I had already collated, and excel could spit it out. It should be noted that this was considered "high math" where I am, and solved a problem that they had rehired a chief engineer to solve using more advanced methods. I solved it by pounding my head against it for a month or so, and having a moment of inspiration about the shape the data took,combined with my knowledge of what a head loss curve looked like.


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## TrailMix (Apr 27, 2011)

L'Empereur said:


> Which math classes have you taken so far?


I've taken all the calc classes, ODE, some linear alg and a computer methods class which used various techniques to approximate solutions/slopes/trends/etc...


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## L'Empereur (Jun 7, 2010)

TrailMix said:


> I've taken all the calc classes, ODE, some linear alg and *a computer methods class which used various techniques to approximate solutions/slopes/trends/etc...*


Numerical analysis?


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## TrailMix (Apr 27, 2011)

L'Empereur said:


> Numerical analysis?


Thats essentially what the computer methods class was, we just used computer applications to set it up on so yes haha 

That was by far my least favorite haha


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## Dart07 (Jun 17, 2011)

I know for electrical engineering you should know Differential Equations really well. Not sure what other math is really involved for EE yet.


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## TrailMix (Apr 27, 2011)

Dart07 said:


> I know for electrical engineering you should know Differential Equations really well. Not sure what other math is really involved for EE yet.


I'm a mechanical, but I can definitely tell you that math is important for all the engineering fields - at least when you're in school. Basically all you do for your first two years is probably just going to be math and applications of math. You'll probably use computers a lot too. At least thats how our program works, I dunno how it is elsewhere

Edit: Just to add: I found it kinda funny in some of my classes when I saw differential equations being used and thought to myself "wow... this stuff actually IS applicable"! which scared me a little bit to be honest haha


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## Magnificent Bastard (Sep 22, 2010)

Sounds like engineers are being trained as mathematicians.


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## bellisaurius (Jan 18, 2012)

Magnificent Bastard said:


> Sounds like engineers are being trained as mathematicians.


You have no idea...


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## LiquidCool (Feb 26, 2011)

Tezkatlipoca said:


> So I've been thinking of majoring in mechanical or electrical engineering when I get into college only problem is that I SUCK at math, any of my fellow NT's have any sites/sources in which would allow me to improve my lack of math skill?


Generally speaking, to get into the engineering portion of the majors, you need to have passed your math classes.

Calc I: Understand what a derivative is. Understand what an integral is. Learn the rules of differentiation and integration.
Calc II: Learn/remember and apply formulas from Trig. Learn and understand Transforms. Understand sequence and series. Understand differentiation and integration in two and three dimensions.
Calc III: Take Calc I and Calc II and apply them to three dimensions. Introduction to Diff. Eq.
Diff. Eq.: Learning to recognize patterns of systems of differential equations and apply the pertinent solutions to those patterns - often involving matrices. Learn to apply the solutions to boundary problems. Introduction to Set Theory.

One of the reasons for knowing the Calc is because the problems become easier and quicker to solve that way rather than dealing with discrete terms. The other portion that is particularly helpful in undergrad is knowing how to use the Transforms correctly.


As for learning it: Get a *good book* - most of this doesn't change from year to year, so you can usually get a useful Calc book at a used book sale. Get a *good tutor*. Utilize Youtube or one of the numerous free *online lecture* series. Work on *problems* and check your solutions - the full solution, not just the answer.

A college or university will definitely have resources available to help you on this particular topic, as long as you are willing to use them.

Also, as mentioned by someone else, a Ti-89 is a godsend.


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