# Let's give this a try.



## Telepathis Goosus (Mar 28, 2015)

shinynotshiny said:


> I've got two pictures up there.
> 
> And it's more of an Ni bias, especially that _feeling _people get. (I've seen too many, "...but it's just a feeling I have, a hunch, my Ni telling me this.") You've got a hunch, that's great, but I'm not going to trust your gut if I think you're an idiot. You have to evaluate your hunches on some level :|


Your pictures seem Ni/Se to me, but I'll need @Jinsei to evaluate that to be sure.

Si/Ne would've been more like "Oh, this reminds me of this" or "That looks like this, or reminds me of that day I did x."

Edit: Oh, and the first picture made me think of these mechanical genetically engineered lizard people, and how they're slowly returning to their natural, human biological state. (Don't ask why or how.)


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

TelepathicGoose said:


> Your pictures seem Ni/Se to me, but I'll need @_Jinsei_ to evaluate that to be sure.
> 
> Si/Ne would've been more like *"Oh, this reminds me of this" or "That looks like this, or reminds me of that day I did x."*


But is that really what Si is like? I read so many conflicting explanations.


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

TelepathicGoose said:


> Edit: Oh, and the first picture made me think of these mechanical genetically engineered lizard people, and how they're slowly returning to their natural, human biological state. (Don't ask why or how.)


....

:laughing:


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## Telepathis Goosus (Mar 28, 2015)

shinynotshiny said:


> But is that really what Si is like? I read so many conflicting explanations.


Yes. Your answer is Ni/Se mostly because you identified what the object truly was (i.e. "A syringe, a suit, etc.) and then proceeded to create a meaning of it suddenly. Si/Ne searches for meaning, but it's more how it relates to your life and what ideas it can give you based off such. Ni/Se is an objective sensory map that you create meaning from, Si/Ne is an objective abstract map that you explore/create using impressions of things.



shinynotshiny said:


> ....
> 
> :laughing:


That's dominant Ne for you :wink:


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

TelepathicGoose said:


> Yes. Your answer is Ni/Se mostly because you identified what the object truly was *(i.e. "A syringe, a suit, etc.)* and then proceeded to create a meaning of it suddenly. Si/Ne searches for meaning, but it's more how it *relates to your life* and what ideas it can give you based off such. Ni/Se is an objective sensory map that you create meaning from, Si/Ne is an objective abstract map that you explore create using *impressions of things*.


Hmm. Got it.


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## Telepathis Goosus (Mar 28, 2015)

shinynotshiny said:


> Hmm. Got it.


What insight has this given you?


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

TelepathicGoose said:


> What insight has this given you?


Simpler than I imagined. Trying to make associations takes a bit more time, although not always. When you mentioned the lizard people, I remembered the gorn from Star Trek 

Now I see a gorn in the suit :dry:


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## Telepathis Goosus (Mar 28, 2015)

shinynotshiny said:


> Simpler than I imagined. Trying to make associations takes a bit more time, although not always. When you mentioned the lizard people, I remembered the gorn from Star Trek


Oh yes, it does now that I think about it. I, on the other hand, didn't even notice that the suit was green until you pointed it out, I was so focused on the leaves.

So, are you thinking you use Ni/Se then?


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

TelepathicGoose said:


> Oh yes, it does now that I think about it. I, on the other hand, didn't even notice that the suit was green until you pointed it out, I was so focused on the leaves.
> 
> So, are you thinking you use Ni/Se then?


Possibly, although I'm still wondering about Si.

Waiting for more input.


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## Telepathis Goosus (Mar 28, 2015)

shinynotshiny said:


> Possibly, although I'm still wondering about Si.
> 
> Waiting for more input.


Okay. If you need/want any more help, just ask.


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

TelepathicGoose said:


> Okay. If you need/want any more help, just ask.


If I type as ISTJ from time to time, I've got to have some Si going on, right? Must understand.


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## Blue Soul (Mar 14, 2015)

@shinynotshiny Find some questionnaire maybe, or tell us about yourself, so we get something to work with. ^^


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

Blue Soul said:


> @_shinynotshiny_ Find some questionnaire maybe, or tell us about yourself, so we get something to work with. ^^


I dislike questionnaires :|

I filled out a few in the past. I'll look for them.


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## Telepathis Goosus (Mar 28, 2015)

shinynotshiny said:


> If I type as ISTJ from time to time, I've got to have some Si going on, right? Must understand.


If you are an ISTJ, your Si has to be very, very prominent. If it's your dominant function, it should be your most noticeable one. Notice how my Ne constantly makes crazy connections? Your Si would have to be on that level.


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

TelepathicGoose said:


> If you are an ISTJ, your Si has to be very, very prominent. If it's your dominant function, it should be your most noticeable one. Notice how my Ne constantly makes crazy connections? Your Si would have to be on that level.


That's the confusing part. I have periods of time where I dwell on the past and stick to what I'm comfortable with, but it happens when I'm not doing well emotionally. I've been diagnosed with major depressive disorder and social anxiety. It's something I've struggled with since childhood, so, really, I don't know. I don't act this way when I'm well.

I've tried to get a better sense of Si, and I can say I care more about my mental health than my physical health. I ended up in the hospital the other day because I didn't realize there was something wrong until it got serious. I might have posted here while hooked up to an IV ^^;

I normally dismiss pain and have erratic eating habits. But is this really an aspect Si? Maybe socionics Si.

As for associations, memories, feelings... don't know.


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## Blue Soul (Mar 14, 2015)

TelepathicGoose said:


> If you are an ISTJ, your Si has to be very, very prominent. If it's your dominant function, it should be your most noticeable one. Notice how my Ne constantly makes crazy connections? Your Si would have to be on that level.


I'm not sure if this has to do with Si-dom, but my dad is an ISTJ and when he physically hurts himself in some way he always screams very loudly. I've theorized it's because he's in tune with his sensations and therefore would be more sensitive, but I don't know.


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

Blue Soul said:


> I'm not sure if this has to do with Si-dom, but my dad is an ISTJ and when he physically hurts himself in some way he always screams very loudly. I've theorized it's because he's in tune with his sensations and therefore would be more sensitive, but I don't know.


I have such a hilarious image in my mind right now...

I had to deal with some chronic pain while I was growing up, so I guess you could say I'm used to pain, or I dismiss "minor" pain because pain isn't serious unless I'm keeled over in agony


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## Telepathis Goosus (Mar 28, 2015)

Blue Soul said:


> I'm not sure if this has to do with Si-dom, but my dad is an ISTJ and when he physically hurts himself in some way he always screams very loudly. I've theorized it's because he's in tune with his sensations and therefore would be more sensitive, but I don't know.


The sensation probably reminds him of something he remembered before, or he associates the sensation with something painful. I can relate on some level, although I'm usually so distant from my senses, that I have a very high tolerance for pain (probably a bad thing.)

Also, that sounds like my ISTJ friend. He's a very interesting and smart person, but gosh is he overly-sensitive when it comes to pain.


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## Blue Soul (Mar 14, 2015)

TelepathicGoose said:


> The sensation probably reminds him of something he remembered before, or he associates the sensation with something painful. I can relate on some level, although I'm usually so distant from my senses, that I have a very high tolerance for pain (probably a bad thing.)
> 
> Also, that sounds like my ISTJ friend. He's a very interesting and smart person, but gosh is he overly-sensitive when it comes to pain.


Maybe I'm onto something then!


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## Telepathis Goosus (Mar 28, 2015)

shinynotshiny said:


> That's the confusing part. I have periods of time where I dwell on the past and stick to what I'm comfortable with, but it happens when I'm not doing well emotionally. I've been diagnosed with major depressive disorder and social anxiety. It's something I've struggled with since childhood, so, really, I don't know. I don't act this way when I'm well.
> 
> I've tried to get a better sense of Si, and I can say I care more about my mental health than my physical health. I ended up in the hospital the other day because I didn't realize there was something wrong until it got serious. I might have posted here while hooked up to an IV ^^;
> 
> ...


Hmm, well if my Si wasn't inferior, I could give you a more detailed description of what it's like for me. Although, what Si mainly does for me is simply remind me of memories and whatnot whenever I taste or feel some sort of sensation, much different from dom/aux Si which is mainly storing information and comparing it to what you've known before in order to ensure everything is the same.

Would you like me to ask you some questions to see if you use Si or Se?


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## Telepathis Goosus (Mar 28, 2015)

Blue Soul said:


> Maybe I'm onto something then!


Yes, you are ^^


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

sociotype.com



> *Si as Leading Function*
> 
> A strong ability to recognize internal physical states in themselves and others, to understand how these states are reached, and to recreate and avoid these physical states. Individuals who possess Si as a base function are drawn to situations that satisfy their inner physical experience. Whenever Si base function individuals are taking part in something that involves recognizing, recreating, or analyzing physical states, they feel a great deal of personal power and enthusiasm.
> 
> ...


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

TelepathicGoose said:


> Hmm, well if my Si wasn't inferior, I could give you a more detailed description of what it's like for me. Although, what Si mainly does for me is simply remind me of memories and whatnot whenever I taste or feel some sort of sensation, much different from dom/aux Si which is mainly storing information and comparing it to what you've known before in order to ensure everything is the same.
> 
> Would you like me to ask you some questions to see if you use Si or Se?


Sure


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## Telepathis Goosus (Mar 28, 2015)

shinynotshiny said:


> Sure


Okay 

1.) _In general,_ do you prefer novel sensory experiences or are you more comforted by things that you've known before?

2.) Do you ever feel disconnected from the world, or do you always seem to have a grasp on reality in some way?

3.) Do you like sensations because of how they themselves feel, or because of the emotion/feeling they invoke in you?

4.) Is it more important to learn and experience or to plan and know?

5.) Is your perception of reality weird in any way?

6.) Do you ever feel life is pointless, lackluster, or tasteless? 

7.) Are you ever bothered by the fact that life is mostly a repeat of itself and that true, novel experiences are very rare?

8.) Is there a correct way to do something? If so, why?

9.) Are you more receptive to the world around you or your inner body? (Sorry this one is so obvious)

10.) When learning, which method appears more appealing:
a.) Learning the rules and directions, and knowing the correct way to do it to avoid mistakes
b.) Figuring it out yourself, especially through interaction with the material


(Keep in mind we're comparing inferior Se to dom Si, so I don't expect the answers to be black and white)


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

@_TelepathicGoose_*

1.) In general, do you prefer novel sensory experiences or are you more comforted by things that you've known before?*

It depends on the experience. I like trying new foods, if that counts. I've never shied away from "weird" dishes, although converting to a vegetarian diet limits what I can try nowadays. I'll go on most rides except anything that involves a straight fall. I like re-experiencing things I've enjoyed before but it doesn't keep me from trying new things. I've had sky diving on my mind since high school... I just need to work up the nerve 

*2.) Do you ever feel disconnected from the world, or do you always seem to have a grasp on reality in some way?*

I'm disconnected. I don't pay attention to my surroundings and I have a hard time navigating new areas. I'm always drifting into my head. I can be washing dishes, doing laundry, or even eating and disconnected from my actions. I also feel disconnected in a social sense. I don't keep up with the latest movies, music, or trends. I sometimes feel like the characters Dr. Brennan and Castiel (ex. "I don't understand that reference")
*
3.) Do you like sensations because of how they themselves feel, or because of the emotion/feeling they invoke in you?*

I like both. I think, in general, sensations that elicit emotions or feelings tend to be stronger. You're dealing with two kinds of sensory experiences at once. It heightens the experience. But I don't need an emotional experience to enjoy physical experiences like touch or taste. If I enjoy them, I enjoy them simply because they're good.

*4.) Is it more important to learn and experience or to plan and know?*

I need to plan and know.

*5.) Is your perception of reality weird in any way?*

That depends on what you mean by weird. I feel disconnected from people and situations, and I don't mind spending time in my head just thinking. I recently woke up in the middle of the night and thought, "This is perfect, now I can think about..." I've also experienced warped perceptions of reality, but I blame that on mental/emotional states more than anything else.

*6.) Do you ever feel life is pointless, lackluster, or tasteless? *

All the time 

*7.) Are you ever bothered by the fact that life is mostly a repeat of itself and that true, novel experiences are very rare?*

Yes. I wish I had more to experience or explore.
*
8.) Is there a correct way to do something? If so, why?*

Again, that depends. Some guidelines exist for a purpose. If you're in a hospital or clinical setting, for example, you need to make sure you don't put yourself or anyone else in an uncomfortable or dangerous situation. In general, though, I wouldn't say there's one correct way to brush your teeth, fold your laundry, cook lasagna, etc.

*9.) Are you more receptive to the world around you or your inner body? (Sorry this one is so obvious)*

I can't really say. I'm disconnected from the outside world but also from my own body. My strongest connection is with my mind.


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## Telepathis Goosus (Mar 28, 2015)

shinynotshiny said:


> @_TelepathicGoose_*
> 
> 1.) In general, do you prefer novel sensory experiences or are you more comforted by things that you've known before?*
> 
> ...


Ni/Se


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

TelepathicGoose said:


> Ni/Se


Ah, one vote for Ni/Se!
Shame on @Blue Soul and @Jinsei for leaving you to do the work :wink:


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## Telepathis Goosus (Mar 28, 2015)

shinynotshiny said:


> Ah, one vote for Ni/Se!
> Shame on @Blue Soul and @Jinsei for leaving you to do the work :wink:


Ah, that's okay. I like helping. ^^

My two cents is on INTJ right now. You'll have to see what the others say to get a more rounded answer.


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

TelepathicGoose said:


> Ah, that's okay. I like helping. ^^
> 
> My two cents is on INTJ right now. You'll have to see what the others say to get a more rounded answer.


Let's see if they appear


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## Halcyon (Jun 21, 2013)

shinynotshiny said:


> Ah, one vote for Ni/Se!
> Shame on @_Blue Soul_ and @_Jinsei_ for leaving you to do the work :wink:


Make that two votes! roud:


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

Halcyon said:


> Make that two votes! roud:


Thank you!


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## Blue Soul (Mar 14, 2015)

I don't know. I see both Se and Si, you could be intuitive but I'm not finding any proof that says specifically Ni or Ne yet.


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

Blue Soul said:


> I don't know. I see both Se and Si, you could be intuitive but I'm not finding any proof that says specifically Ni or Ne yet.



Feel free to ask questions.


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## Pressed Flowers (Oct 8, 2014)

I'm really not good at determining Si vs Ni :/ sorry. I'm getting better at determining Fe vs Fi, but... I'm absolutely useless when it comes to perceiving functions. 

Nonetheless, best of luck finding your type!


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## Dangerose (Sep 30, 2014)

I'm seeing Ni/Se. I would guess INTJ.
I'm not seeing any Si or Ne.


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## Jinsei (Aug 4, 2014)

shinynotshiny said:


> I couldn't find anything interesting :|
> 
> I'm not going to try and make philosophical, long-winded interpretations. I'll just write down my first impressions.
> 
> ...


The bold statements come from the subjective side of things... could be Fi having input here... Could be Ni... might possibly be Si lol. I'm not 100% certain.


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## Jinsei (Aug 4, 2014)

TelepathicGoose said:


> Ni/Se


I think I agree... I'd probably go with INTJ here over ISTJ


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## Telepathis Goosus (Mar 28, 2015)

Jinsei said:


> I think I agree... I'd probably go with INTJ here over ISTJ


Yes, I agree. I'd go with INTJ as well.


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## Telepathis Goosus (Mar 28, 2015)

@shinynotshiny

You've taken the socionics right, and found that ILI fit the best...correct? I've found socionics to be really accurate.

For example, I couldn't decide between IEI and EII, IEI's functions didn't add up right, but it's overall attitude fit better than EII. This is because EII was more focused on values, whereas IEI was more focused on cultivating intuition. (And I've always felt that I'm more of a perceiver and observer than a judger and decider.) The problem with IEI is that it uses Ni, whereas I use Ne. For the hell of it, I went and looked at IEE, the ENFp one, and found that it was a good median between the two, and fit me quite well. I'm maybe not quite as social as the socionics IEE is depicted, but I've become more-so as I've gotten older.

What I'm getting at (sorry for the tangent), is that often times the socionics that you fit best is your actual MBTI type.


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## Blue Soul (Mar 14, 2015)

@shinynotshiny Here are some questions. I've tried to mix them up and not make them too obvious.

How do you relate to routine and repetition?

You notice that two things are connected, but are you sure how?

Do you often find yourself seeking new interests to explore, or do you prefer focusing on that interest you already have?

You decide to re-watch a movie or re-read a book you love and know well. Could you describe why you want to do this, and what you get out of it?

When thinking back on an emotionally loaded memory, do you ever experience the same feelings again as if you're reliving it, or do you, while still remembering the feelings, feel more detached from the emotional side of the memory?

If you are viewing a discussion thread over a heated topic and want to contribute your view, would you make a connection first and then try to find proof supporting it, or would you look into your previous knowledge on the subject and then try to make a connection from there?

Are you good at remembering things like for instance birthdays or people's names?

Would you find it easy to notice if something is different about someone, like if they got their hair cut?

Do you ever feel overwhelmed by things like loud music?

Would you rather stick to what's old but safe, or do you seek new experiences for the experience itself?


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

*How do you relate to routine and repetition?*

I don't mind repetition if it's something I enjoy, although I wouldn't want to continue repeating it for too long. I don't have any personal routines I follow or try to stick to.

*You notice that two things are connected, but are you sure how?*

Sometimes I'm sure, sometimes I'm not. It's like watching an episode of Star Trek and getting the feeling that so-and-so is supposed to represent this-and-that, but there's nothing to go by other than that feeling. It's very satisfying when I'm proven right. People often tell me I'm looking too deeply into something or someone and seeing something that isn't there. They're wrong, of course :wink:

*Do you often find yourself seeking new interests to explore, or do you prefer focusing on that interest you already have?*

I can focus on an interest forever and ever. I want to know everything about it and I move on to something else once I feel satisfied.

*You decide to re-watch a movie or re-read a book you love and know well. Could you describe why you want to do this, and what you get out of it?*

Different perspectives. Sometimes I revisit a childhood favorite and find it isn't as satisfying as it used to be, or I get a completely different meaning out of it. The content is the same but what the content means to me or what it tells me changes with time or personal growth. I also like revisiting something if I feel I can get a better understanding of it.

*When thinking back on an emotionally loaded memory, do you ever experience the same feelings again as if you're reliving it, or do you, while still remembering the feelings, feel more detached from the emotional side of the memory?*

It depends on the memory and my state of mind. Right now, I'm sitting here remembering something painful. It's something that happened recently and affected all aspects of my life. I feel detached from the memory. What happened, happened. I've come to terms with it. But if I remember this while I'm feeling vulnerable, it's likely that the feelings will come back to me.

*If you are viewing a discussion thread over a heated topic and want to contribute your view, would you make a connection first and then try to find proof supporting it, or would you look into your previous knowledge on the subject and then try to make a connection from there?*

Always proof.

*Are you good at remembering things like for instance birthdays or people's names?*

If I want to... I know the month and day my mother was born, but not the year. I know that makes me sound like a horrible daughter, but I promise I'm not :tongue:

I usually need to write these things down or grow familiar with them.

*Would you find it easy to notice if something is different about someone, like if they got their hair cut?*

If it's a drastic change. Sometimes I don't notice because I didn't pay attention to their original appearance in the first place.

*Do you ever feel overwhelmed by things like loud music?*

Yes. Sometimes I feel vulnerable and need to find somewhere quiet. It's just unpleasant. Concerts and things like that aren't my thing.

*Would you rather stick to what's old but safe, or do you seek new experiences for the experience itself?*

It depends! I want to experience new things and don't have a problem exploring, but I'm going to stick to what's old and safe if the new experience has a good chance of harming me or others (either physically, emotionally, etc). I have to be an adult about this.


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## Blue Soul (Mar 14, 2015)

shinynotshiny said:


> *How do you relate to routine and repetition?*
> 
> I don't mind repetition if it's something I enjoy, although I wouldn't want to continue repeating it for too long. I don't have any personal routines I follow or try to stick to.
> 
> ...


I see alot of Ni and possibly inferior Se. I think INTJ over ISTJ seems reasonable.


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

Blue Soul said:


> I see alot of Ni and possibly inferior Se. I think INTJ over ISTJ seems reasonable.


Interesting... what would you say is my most Ni answer?


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## Blue Soul (Mar 14, 2015)

shinynotshiny said:


> Interesting... what would you say is my most Ni answer?


These answers:



shinynotshiny said:


> *You notice that two things are connected, but are you sure how?*
> 
> Sometimes I'm sure, sometimes I'm not. It's like watching an episode of Star Trek and getting the feeling that so-and-so is supposed to represent this-and-that, but there's nothing to go by other than that feeling. It's very satisfying when I'm proven right. People often tell me I'm looking too deeply into something or someone and seeing something that isn't there. They're wrong, of course :wink:
> 
> ...


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

Blue Soul said:


> These answers...


So, an obsessive focus on something is (or can be) Ni? :laughing: 



Thanks for your help


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## Blue Soul (Mar 14, 2015)

shinynotshiny said:


> So, an obsessive focus on something is (or can be) Ni? :laughing:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for your help


I think an Si/Ne user would revisit things for the pure reliving of the nostalgia. When my ISTJ dad for instance listens to AC/DC it takes him back to 1977 when things were like that, this was what was going on in his life, these were the emotions, and the room smelled like this, or he was in his car with his best friend when they first met.

An Ne/Si user would be less likely to revisit these things in the first place, because they already solved it. They certainly can do it though, but it won't be with the same level of interest. What's typical for Ni-dom is our ability to continuously dig deeper into anything that catches our interest, and we'll be satisfied with exploring that depth and learning more as long as it's complex enough for new layers, different perspectives to be discovered.

Anyone can get obsessed with something that interests them, we just handle it a bit differently. For myself I can say that I consciously don't seek out too many new endeavours that require me to study it deeply, because I always have to know everything, and I have a tendency to commit long term to this interest. This bothers my ENTP friend sometimes when he suggests new games to play together because I'll say no too often for him.


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

Blue Soul said:


> Anyone can get obsessed with something that interests them, we just handle it a bit differently. For myself I can say that I consciously don't seek out too many new endeavours that require me to study it deeply, because I always have to know everything, and I have a tendency to commit long term to this interest. *This bothers my ENTP friend sometimes when he suggests new games to play together because I'll say no too often for him. *


!!!



I have a habit of playing a game "to death" and saying no to anything I feel I can't commit to properly. I game a lot with my brother and he's constantly criticizing me for this. 

"I recommended this game months ago and you still haven't played it." 
"I need to find the time to fully dedicate myself to the game." 
"Just play it while you finish whatever game you're on." 
_"I can't do that!"_

I'm not sure if you relate to this, but I definitely relate to your experience :laughing:


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## Blue Soul (Mar 14, 2015)

shinynotshiny said:


> !!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I definitely relate to you there. ^^

I often go for all achievements, explore every nook and cranny, things like that. Unless the game doesn't interest me at all, then I might even drop it before completing it.


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

Blue Soul said:


> I definitely relate to you there. ^^
> 
> I often go for *all achievements, explore every nook and cranny*, things like that. Unless the game doesn't interest me at all, then I might even drop it before completing it.


Oh yeah, that's me. I'm quite amused right now


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## Jinsei (Aug 4, 2014)

shinynotshiny said:


> !!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Final Fantasy... I LOVE the games... but I am HORRIBLE at finishing them... I have to unlock everything... max out every character... otherwise it doesn't feel complete. Plus I get sad when the story is over anyway...


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

Jinsei said:


> Final Fantasy... I LOVE the games... but I am HORRIBLE at finishing them... I have to unlock everything... max out every character... otherwise it doesn't feel complete. Plus I get sad when the story is over anyway...


I got the FFX/X-2 remaster, but it's just sitting there. If I start...

Besides, I played it years ago :tongue:




But still...


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## Jinsei (Aug 4, 2014)

shinynotshiny said:


> I got the FFX/X-2 remaster, but it's just sitting there. If I start...
> 
> Besides, I played it years ago :tongue:


Me too!! Besides VII... X is one of my faves! And mine is also just sitting there. I played it years ago and pretty much unlocked the entire sphere grid for every single character... had all the ultimate weapons... it was crazy lol.


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

Jinsei said:


> Me too!! Besides VII... X is one of my faves! And mine is also just sitting there. I played it years ago and pretty much unlocked the entire sphere grid for every single character... had all the ultimate weapons... it was crazy lol.



Don't get me started on VII 

I liked VIII although the junctioning system was a bit of a pain. At one point I spent a few hours playing triple triad in search of rare cards.

Blitzball is one of the things stopping me from picking up FFX/X-2 again. Oh blitzball.


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## Deadly Decorum (Feb 23, 2014)

I'm not seeing Ni. I think ISTJ is an accurate typing.


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

hoopla said:


> I'm not seeing Ni. I think ISTJ is an accurate typing.



I always appreciate a good explanation.


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## Jinsei (Aug 4, 2014)

shinynotshiny said:


> Don't get me started on VII
> 
> I liked VIII although the junctioning system was a bit of a pain. At one point I spent a few hours playing triple triad in search of rare cards.
> 
> Blitzball is one of the things stopping me from picking up FFX/X-2 again. Oh blitzball.


Friggin Blitzball... ARG! VIII was pretty good but I have no idea what happened with IX...


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

Jinsei said:


> Friggin Blitzball... ARG! VIII was pretty good but I have no idea what happened with IX...


I also skipped IX. I tried starting it but it didn't keep my interest.


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## Telepathis Goosus (Mar 28, 2015)

Jinsei said:


> Final Fantasy... I LOVE the games... but I am HORRIBLE at finishing them... I have to unlock everything... max out every character... otherwise it doesn't feel complete. Plus I get sad when the story is over anyway...


Oh really? I love them. I've played all of them up to 12 (got a bit upset with them after that.)


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## Telepathis Goosus (Mar 28, 2015)

hoopla said:


> I'm not seeing Ni. I think ISTJ is an accurate typing.


Hmm, why do you say that? I thought I saw Ni in her.


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

TelepathicGoose said:


> Hmm, why do you say that? I thought I saw Ni in her.


I'm also curious, mostly about the Si.


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

hoopla said:


> I'm much to lazy to analyze/nitpick
> 
> however
> 
> ...


Yeah, when I'm depressed as fuck.

I don't remember where I said I need something to draw back from. You could always try supporting your argument.


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## Halcyon (Jun 21, 2013)

hoopla said:


> I'm much to lazy to analyze/nitpick
> 
> however
> 
> ...


She's also an introvert and a 5w6 (a withdrawn type), so that she prefers what she finds comfortable and safe is easily explained by that. 

Also, Si dom/aux types don't prefer things they have familiarity with because they find it more comfortable and safe (although that may be a byproduct but it isn't the core reason). In my understanding, they prefer those things because that's what they've found has best worked from past experience.

IDK, that could be not entirely correct but I know of many non-Si dom/aux people (myself included) who prefer things they know to the unfamiliar. It's kind of a basic human thing (though there are exceptions).


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

Halcyon said:


> She's also an introvert and a 5w6 (a withdrawn type), so that she prefers what she finds comfortable and safe is easily explained by that.
> 
> Also, Si dom/aux types don't prefer things they have familiarity with because they find it more comfortable and safe (although that may be a byproduct but it isn't the core reason). In my understanding, they prefer those things because that's what they've found has best worked from past experience.
> 
> *IDK, that could be not entirely correct but I know of many non-Si dom/aux people (myself included) who prefer things they know to the unfamiliar. It's kind of a basic human thing (though there are exceptions).*


It's what confuses me most.


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## Deadly Decorum (Feb 23, 2014)

shinynotshiny said:


> Yeah, when I'm depressed as fuck.
> 
> I don't remember where I said I need something to draw back from. You could always try supporting your argument.


Good call. I mentioned that was my "impression". But not giving a well thought out answer will look like I'm just putting words in others' mouths, so I'll weed through for some quotes.



> I'm not going to try and make philosophical, long-winded interpretations. I'll just write down my first impressions.


Hints at sensing.



> This picture is called Nature in My Blood. It doesn't really fit what I see.


Sounds Si-ish, but I wouldn't quote me on that. Ever have a problem with things not "looking" right?



> I see the prospects of new life. We've got this person in a suit and helmet. The image isn't about the person, it's about the green, the only outstanding color. The green suit, the green leaves. It's about life and growth and a new beginning. "Hey, I went over to XYZ planet and it's capable of sustaining life! There's hope for us yet!"


si-ne



> Interesting and disgusting. We've got syringes filled with different-flavored jelly, flowers placed in beakers, medical kits as wall decoration. Synthetic life, manufactured life, empty life. We've reached a point where we prefer artificial flavors over the real deal and uproot flowers and leave them to die in pots. No appreciation for the world we live in.


Si. Filtering reality into something distasteful. Seeing those images as a metaphor for the disregard of reality. You mentioned it's symbolic of how we don't appreciate life, yet I think the fact your mind went there is telling. I describe Si as salty garbage. Everything is delicious sea salt, until the salt is tasteless. Then everything just erupts into salty garbage, and you can never not associate salt without garbage ever again. It all becomes distasteful. 

you had a conversation with @TelepathicGoose about how you identified the suit in the first photograph, which resulted in this:



> When you mentioned the lizard people, I remembered the gorn from Star Trek
> 
> Now I see a gorn in the suit


Lizard made your mind jump to an impression of the gorn, and now you're imagining that impression in a suit. Si-Ne. Ne basically takes it's sensory impressions and re-imagines and creates them. 



> I normally dismiss pain and have erratic eating habits. But is this really an aspect Si?


Interesting question. No idea, but I've been wondering about this too. I pay little attention to my body- I actually think heightened awareness of one's body is an Se thing, maybe. Think about it. It's an objective sensory fact in the brink of the moment. Si disvalues such facts.

I want to poll Si types about their eating habits. I've always eaten in an erratic fashion. I was picky as hell, until I realized the inconvenience, so I forced myself to eat everything. I eat "normal" now but I often forget to eat. I wonder if that's common in Si. Once again, food is an objective fact. It wouldn't be surprising for Si to forget about eating, but I'm drawing inconclusive here.



> I'm disconnected. I don't pay attention to my surroundings and I have a hard time navigating new areas. I'm always drifting into my head. I can be washing dishes, doing laundry, or even eating and disconnected from my actions. I also feel disconnected in a social sense. I don't keep up with the latest movies, music, or trends. I sometimes feel like the characters Dr. Brennan and Castiel


Si. I do the same.... I don't care about pop culture, and I certainly suck at direction and navigation. I also space out during tasks and generally feel as if I'm divided from the universe, as if I'm not apart of it. I'm on the outside looking in. Your lack of social connection could hint at Fi too. 



> I like both. I think, in general, sensations that elicit emotions or feelings tend to be stronger. You're dealing with two kinds of sensory experiences at once. It heightens the experience. But I don't need an emotional experience to enjoy physical experiences like touch or taste. If I enjoy them, I enjoy them simply because they're good.


Si, paired with Fi (things are good. they're bad. All coming from the inside). 



> I need to plan and know.


I don't know if this is typical within the community but I associate this with Si. When you're in a new environment, it helps to have an idea of how things pan out, what's expected, because throw yourself in on a whim and you feel chaotic. That's because Si is filtering and evaluating data subjectively.

This could speak to Te as well.



> I feel disconnected from people and situations, and I don't mind spending time in my head just thinking


Ha Si. Why do you feel disconnected from people? That could go in many different directions, though it typically speaks to an introverted function.



> Some guidelines exist for a purpose. If you're in a hospital or clinical setting, for example, you need to make sure you don't put yourself or anyone else in an uncomfortable or dangerous situation.


Te lol



> . I'm disconnected from the outside world but also from my own body. My strongest connection is with my mind.


I know everyone says Si is "internal body states" but wtf does that even mean. Your liver, your pancreas? I feel the same way... I sometimes feel like I don't have a body, or if I shouldn't have been assembled with one. I live in my mind. There are two lives, an external one and internal one, and I often live in my internal mind. I'd say Si dominate with this one.

There's also your need for others to support their arguments, strikes me as Te. If you were an Fe it'd be booming. Even aux Fe loves to say hello.


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

> I'm not going to try and make philosophical, long-winded interpretations. I'll just write down my first impressions.
> 
> Hints at sensing.


Except I was thinking about the way people make long-winded "interpretations" of pictures, trying to force meaning when they don't see any meaning in the first place. It's one of the reasons I dislike using images and interpretations in typing questionnaires. You give someone an image, tell them to interpret it, and they're going to sit there trying to formulate some kind of interpretation rather than offering their initial thoughts or feelings. I made my impressions as simple and as fast as possible so I wouldn't ruin anything by over-thinking.



> Si. Filtering reality into something distasteful. Seeing those images as a metaphor for the disregard of reality. You mentioned it's symbolic of how we don't appreciate life, yet I think the fact your mind went there is telling. I describe Si as salty garbage. Everything is delicious sea salt, until the salt is tasteless. Then everything just erupts into salty garbage, and you can never not associate salt without garbage ever again. It all becomes distasteful.


You call it a metaphor and a symbol but argue it's too personal of an interpretation to be anything but Si? I'd like to hear more.



> Lizard made your mind jump to an impression of the gorn, and now you're imagining that impression in a suit. Si-Ne. Ne basically takes it's sensory impressions and re-imagines and creates them.


I'm a Star Trek fan and so is Goose. She mentioned lizard people and I thought of a type of lizard people, the gorn. I'm sure most people can make these associations, Si-dom or not. For the record, I did say some associations came easier and gave the gorn as an example.



> Interesting question. No idea, but I've been wondering about this too. I pay little attention to my body- I actually think heightened awareness of one's body is an Se thing, maybe. Think about it. It's an objective sensory fact in the brink of the moment. Si disvalues such facts.
> 
> I want to poll Si types about their eating habits. I've always eaten in an erratic fashion. I was picky as hell, until I realized the inconvenience, so I forced myself to eat everything. I eat "normal" now but I often forget to eat. I wonder if that's common in Si. Once again, food is an objective fact. It wouldn't be surprising for Si to forget about eating, but I'm drawing inconclusive here.


Socionics defines Si in those terms, which is part of the reason I have a hard time reconciling my MBTI and socionics types.



> Si, paired with Fi (things are good. they're bad. All coming from the inside).


Well, yeah. I think chocolate ice cream is delicious. My taste buds are loving this. It's good. Wouldn't most people say something like that about a food they like? 



> I don't know if this is typical within the community but I associate this with Si. When you're in a new environment, it helps to have an idea of how things pan out, what's expected, because throw yourself in on a whim and you feel chaotic. That's because Si is filtering and evaluating data subjectively.
> 
> This could speak to Te as well.


I attribute this more to Te. It just seems like the logical thing to do.



> Ha Si. Why do you feel disconnected from people? That could go in many different directions, though it typically speaks to an introverted function.


I don't relate to them, they don't relate to me. I only have a handful of close friends, and the number changes every so often. 



> Te lol














> I know everyone says Si is "internal body states" but wtf does that even  mean. Your liver, your pancreas? I feel the same way... I sometimes feel like I don't have a body, or if I shouldn't have been assembled with one.* I live in my mind. There are two lives, an external one and internal one, and I often live in my internal mind. I'd say Si dominate with this one.*
> 
> There's also your need for others to support their arguments, strikes me as Te. If you were an Fe it'd be booming. Even aux Fe loves to say hello.


Definitely the pancreas. Also the gallbladder.

The impression I'm getting is that I _have _to be Si dominant because you relate to my experience, and you're Si dominant. That's assuming you really are Si dominant. Personally, I still think you're a thinker, and not the ISTJ variety.

Also, yay Te!

Thank you for the response. I hope you don't think I'm being difficult just to be difficult. I'm genuinely curious about the things I asked.


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## Halcyon (Jun 21, 2013)

hoopla said:


> Hints at sensing.


No, it hints at Te's need for efficiency and cutting out bullshit.



> si-ne


How? In that quote, she's not focusing on details and then extrapolating from there (Si/Ne). She's essentially ignoring the details and looking at the overall impression the image gives her, which is an Ni thing.



> Si. Filtering reality into something distasteful. Seeing those images as a metaphor for the disregard of reality. You mentioned it's symbolic of how we don't appreciate life, yet I think the fact your mind went there is telling. I describe Si as salty garbage. Everything is delicious sea salt, until the salt is tasteless. Then everything just erupts into salty garbage, and you can never not associate salt without garbage ever again. It all becomes distasteful.


 So only Si types can find society distasteful? 



> Interesting question. No idea, but I've been wondering about this too. I pay little attention to my body- I actually think heightened awareness of one's body is an Se thing, maybe. Think about it. It's an objective sensory fact in the brink of the moment. Si disvalues such facts.


It's more of an SP (self preservation) instinct thing.



> I want to poll Si types about their eating habits. I've always eaten in an erratic fashion. I was picky as hell, until I realized the inconvenience, so I forced myself to eat everything. I eat "normal" now but I often forget to eat. I wonder if that's common in Si. Once again, food is an objective fact. It wouldn't be surprising for Si to forget about eating, but I'm drawing inconclusive here.


 Again, this shows more a lack of the SP instinct than anything having to do with functions and if anything, Si types would be _most_ likely to eat at regular intervals because they would know from past experience that that's what's best for their well being and take that to heart.



> Si. I do the same.... I don't care about pop culture, and I certainly suck at direction and navigation. I also space out during tasks and generally feel as if I'm divided from the universe, as if I'm not apart of it. I'm on the outside looking in. Your lack of social connection could hint at Fi too.


Si has nothing to do with a disregard for pop culture. I'm not an Si type and I hate pop culture. And the disconnect from reality thing is much more of an intuitive thing than a sensing thing because N types are much less grounded in the "real world."



> Si, paired with Fi (things are good. they're bad. All coming from the inside).


How?



> I don't know if this is typical within the community but I associate this with Si. When you're in a new environment, it helps to have an idea of how things pan out, what's expected, because throw yourself in on a whim and you feel chaotic. That's because Si is filtering and evaluating data subjectively.
> 
> This could speak to Te as well.


What she said is true of many J types. The only thing that would be Si about it is maybe if she had a concrete way of approaching situations that she applied to a wide range of things because she found that worked best in the past.



> Ha Si. Why do you feel disconnected from people? That could go in many different directions, though it typically speaks to an introverted function.


I feel like you're just quoting everything she said and saying "Must be Si, clearly!" because you're just set on having her be an Si type. The disconnect from people and liking to retreat into one's own thoughts is decidedly an INxx characteristic. It has little to do with Si....



> I know everyone says Si is "internal body states" but wtf does that even mean. Your liver, your pancreas? I feel the same way... I sometimes feel like I don't have a body, or if I shouldn't have been assembled with one. I live in my mind. There are two lives, an external one and internal one, and I often live in my internal mind. I'd say Si dominate with this one.


Once again, I feel like you're just slapping an Si label on to everything she says with little basis because an internal focus pretty much just means that her lead function is introverted. It's not at all specifically an Si thing. 

Please don't think that I'm trying to start a fight with you or anything but I just really don't see where you're finding the Si in anything she wrote.


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## Deadly Decorum (Feb 23, 2014)

@shinynotshiny- good points about trying to take an unbiased approach, with myself misinterpreting it. What I was getting at is that sensors describe things observatory in their environment, whether externally (Se) or through sensory databases (Si), but that may not have applied to your sentiment.

You're right about food as well, but what I meant there is Fi has a tendency to internally determine whether things are good or bad, and usually tends to declare such statements with "This is awesome". "This sucked". Quick glimpses. I wonder if that's true for you in general, not just in terms of food. 

As for needing to "know" what happens, I associate that with Si. I have two xSFJ family members who are very much this way, despite the strong Fe. They get nervous when they don't know what's expected of them. They don't look at the environment objectively, but subjectively, so they like internal data or ideas about what's expected beforehand as new objective facts are something they have to internalize and soak in before they're comfortable. It's why Si is associated with caution. In your case I think it's a blend of Si and Te.

Actually, no. As mentioned, I'm on the fence about my type, but I know I use Si, regardless of whether or not I'm an INTP or an xSFJ. I don't relate to everything that's said here, but I know the difference between Se and Si, and I know Si filters out reality, and views things through mythology, rather idealizing or devauling the sensory world rather than seeing the sensory world objectively, as it is. As Jung put it:



> Actually he lives in a mythological world, where men, animals, locomotives, houses, rivers, and mountains appear either as benevolent deities or as malevolent demons. That they appear thus to him never enters his head, though that is just the effect they have on his judgments and actions. He judges and acts as though he had such powers to deal with; but this begins to strike him only when he discovers that his sensations are totally different from reality.


That's why Si itself is associated with being separated from the world. Si isn't really apart of objective reality, because it filters and distorts reality through it's own lens. Some of what you mentioned is Te/Fi, such as logical, extraverted plans, or your subjective distance from others, but I fail to see Ni, whether or not others do, and whatever reason they believe me to see the Si. Si can easily be mistaken for Ni, as it also creates it own, mythological meaning behind objects, but it's through the sensory, by distorting to object until it's twisted by an indealized or devaluated impression. That's exactly what I saw in your pictures, to say the least.


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## Deadly Decorum (Feb 23, 2014)

@Halcyon Si is actually a disconnect from reality. Read Jung's description.... it's different from how most people describe Si, and I find it much more informative:

http://personalitycafe.com/istj-articles/76890-introverted-sensation-type-si-dom-described-jung.html

I'm still an amateur, and still learning, but I never understood what people meant by "Si is the memory function" and "Si learns from the past", as if only Si has memories or learns not to touch a hot surface once it burns them when they're little. It makes much more sense to me that Si takes objective reality (Se) and disregards it, or idealizes or devalues it's properties based on it's own subjective archetypes. This is what I mean by "reality is distasteful". Reality is viewed through a highlighted, bolded lens of beauty, and then shut off and viewed as distasteful once these idealized sensations are abandoned. Reality is not an objective fact, but subjective. I think shinynotshiny demonstrates this well, but if general consensus is Ni, then Ni it is.

Also I never said Si is just prioritizing safety or comfort. I meant Si filters objective reality, so a situation that hasn't been filtered or evaluated is often viewed as unsafe or insecure, as it hasn't been processed subjectively, and there's no subjective information to draw back from the experience.


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

hoopla said:


> You're right about food as well, but what I meant there is Fi has a tendency to internally determine whether things are good or bad, and usually tends to declare such statements with "This is awesome". "This sucked". Quick glimpses. I wonder if that's true for you in general, not just in terms of food.


I never questioned Fi. I'm positive about Te and Fi, in that order. Having said that, I'm sure people who use Fe can still form opinions about what foods they like or don't like.



hoopla said:


> As for needing to "know" what happens, I associate that with Si. I have two xSFJ family members who are very much this way, despite the strong Fe. They get nervous when they don't know what's expected of them. They don't look at the environment objectively, but subjectively, so they like internal data or ideas about what's expected beforehand as new objective facts are something they have to internalize and soak in before they're comfortable. It's why Si is associated with caution. In your case I think it's a blend of Si and Te.


It simply makes the most sense to me. Why am I going to jump into something and learn "hands on" and fumble through the process when I can approach the material in a more effective way?



hoopla said:


> Actually, no. As mentioned, I'm on the fence about my type, but I know I use Si, regardless of whether or not I'm an INTP or an xSFJ. I don't relate to everything that's said here, but I know the difference between Se and Si, and I know Si filters out reality, and views things through mythology, rather idealizing or devauling the sensory world rather than seeing the sensory world objectively, as it is.


I never said you didn't use Si, just that you're not an ISTJ if you're a thinking type. In other words, I lean toward INTP for you.



hoopla said:


> That's why Si itself is associated with being separated from the world. Si isn't really apart of objective reality, because it filters and distorts reality through it's own lens. Some of what you mentioned is Te/Fi, such as logical, extraverted plans, or your subjective distance from others, but I fail to see Ni, whether or not others do, and whatever reason they believe me to see the Si. Si can easily be mistaken for Ni, as it also creates it own, mythological meaning behind objects, but it's through the sensory, by distorting to object until it's twisted by an indealized or devaluated impression. That's exactly what I saw in your pictures, to say the least.


I'm not sold on Ni, but you'll need to make a stronger argument for Si.


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

hoopla said:


> @_Halcyon_ Si is actually a disconnect from reality. Read Jung's description.... it's different from how most people describe Si, and I find it much more informative:
> 
> http://personalitycafe.com/istj-articles/76890-introverted-sensation-type-si-dom-described-jung.html
> 
> ...


Out of curiosity, what did that image with the syringes and beakers say to you?

In regards to the bold: it's not that I have an idealized version of beauty, it's that I see someone filling a syringe with red jelly and sticking that syringe into a donut. That same person puts flowers inside of beakers. There's a first-aid kit on the wall as decoration. These are medical, sterile, man-made. That was my impression and I'm not sure how that speaks to a personal, idealized version of beauty, but maybe I'm misunderstanding you.


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## Halcyon (Jun 21, 2013)

hoopla said:


> You're right about food as well, but what I meant there is Fi has a tendency to internally determine whether things are good or bad, and usually tends to declare such statements with "This is awesome". "This sucked". Quick glimpses. I wonder if that's true for you in general, not just in terms of food.


I feel like any type is capable of making judgments about how good food tastes to them....? I don't think that actually has much to do with Fi or any other cognitive function for that matter.



> As for needing to "know" what happens, I associate that with Si. I have two xSFJ family members who are very much this way, despite the strong Fe. They get nervous when they don't know what's expected of them. They don't look at the environment objectively, but subjectively, so they like internal data or ideas about what's expected beforehand as new objective facts are something they have to internalize and soak in before they're comfortable. It's why Si is associated with caution. In your case I think it's a blend of Si and Te.


But the thing is, I know many non-Si types that also fit this description.....



> views things through mythology


I have absolutely no idea what this means.



> That's why Si itself is associated with being separated from the world. Si isn't really apart of objective reality, because it filters and distorts reality through it's own lens.


Doesn't every function do this? Humans, by nature, filter everything through some sort of lens.



hoopla said:


> @_Halcyon_ Si is actually a disconnect from reality. Read Jung's description.... it's different from how most people describe Si, and I find it much more informative:
> 
> http://personalitycafe.com/istj-articles/76890-introverted-sensation-type-si-dom-described-jung.html


Ok, so I read it all and maybe I'm just not intelligent enough to grasp what Jung is driving at but I have no clue what he's talking about.... at all. To be honest, it all sounds like a whole lot of nothing to me and he gives no examples or anything to make the applications of what he's saying clearer. I know this is like blasphemy here but while I was reading this, I pictured Jung taking a bong hit and being like "Maaaaaan, I should.... I should just write something totally.... far out man....." and then he just kind of drifts away into a cloud of psychedelic smoke. 'Cause like, what does "Actually he lives in a mythological world, where men, animals, locomotives, houses, rivers, and mountains appear either as benevolent deities or as malevolent demons" even mean? _Really_? 

I'm sorry, I just kind of ranting now but I'm really curious: If you had to distill that entire thing into like, one paragraph that encapsulates your understanding of it all, what would it be? 



> I'm still an amateur, and still learning, but I never understood what people meant by "Si is the memory function" and "Si learns from the past", as if only Si has memories or learns not to touch a hot surface once it burns them when they're little. It makes much more sense to me that Si takes objective reality (Se) and disregards it, or idealizes or devalues it's properties based on it's own subjective archetypes.


That's what I always thought it meant, that Si is kind of like a person's subjective interpretation of objective reality but I always thought the basis of this interpretation was prior sensations and experiences. 



> This is what I mean by "reality is distasteful". Reality is viewed through a highlighted, bolded lens of beauty, and then shut off and viewed as distasteful once these idealized sensations are abandoned.


So Si is only capable of black and white thinking?



> Also I never said Si is just prioritizing safety or comfort. I meant Si filters objective reality, so a situation that hasn't been filtered or evaluated is often viewed as unsafe or insecure, as it hasn't been processed subjectively, and there's no subjective information to draw back from the experience.


It may not be for the same reasons as an Si type but I think many people are wary of new and unfamiliar situations that they have yet to assess. To me, that isn't unique to Si.


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

@Halcyon, I'm going to try to make sense of this paragraph in as little sentences as possible:



> Above all, his development alienates him from the reality of the object, leaving him at the mercy of his subjective perceptions, which orient his consciousness to an archaic reality, although his lack of comparative judgment keeps him wholly unconscious of this fact. Actually he *lives in a mythological world*, where men, animals, locomotives, houses, rivers, and mountains appear either as benevolent deities or as malevolent demons. That they appear thus to him never enters his head, though that is just the effect they have on his judgments and actions. He judges and acts as though he had such powers to deal with; but this begins to strike him only when he discovers that *his sensations are totally different from reality*. If he has any aptitude for objective reason, he will sense this difference as morbid; but if he remains faithful to his irrationality, and is ready to grant his sensations reality value, *the objective world will appear a mere make-believe and a comedy*. Only in extreme cases, however, is this dilemma reached. As a rule he re-signs himself to his isolation and the* banality of the world*, which he has *unconsciously made archaic*.


So, I see a rock. It's just a rock. An ordinary rock. But I give it subjective meaning. It's a piece of some meteor or comet or whatever that made its way to earth. This rock has seen a lot. Cool. I feel humbled. But then I sit down and think, wait, it's just a rock. I become disillusioned with the world. It's so boring. Real life is boring. Introverted sensing (?)



> I know this is like blasphemy here but while I was reading this, I pictured Jung taking a bong hit and being like "Maaaaaan, I should.... I should just write something totally.... far out man....." and then he just kind of drifts away into a cloud of psychedelic smoke. 'Cause like, what does "Actually he lives in a mythological world, where men, animals, locomotives, houses, rivers, and mountains appear either as benevolent deities or as malevolent demons" even mean? _Really_?


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## Halcyon (Jun 21, 2013)

shinynotshiny said:


> So, I see a rock. It's just a rock. An ordinary rock. But I give it subjective meaning. It's a piece of some meteor or comet or whatever that made its way to earth. This rock has seen a lot. Cool. I feel humbled. But then I sit down and think, wait, it's just a rock. I become disillusioned with the world. It's so boring. Real life is boring. Introverted sensing (?)


I challenge you to find me one person that actually has done this. :tongue:


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

As I drift into sleep, I realize the deities and demons are the perception of good and bad, pleasant and unpleasant. Animals, rivers, mountains, benevolent deities. Men, locomotives, houses, malevolent demons. Subjective impressions of the world around us.

...or something.


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## Deadly Decorum (Feb 23, 2014)

@Halcyon



> "Actually he lives in a mythological world, where men, animals, locomotives, houses, rivers, and mountains appear either as benevolent deities or as malevolent demons


What he's saying is Si doesn't see objects objectively, but indefinitely. Se would see the houses, men, rivers, houses and mountains just as they are, and would think of all the objective, tangible things they could do with them. Se sees a river, and realizes it can go swimming in it. Se sees a house and decides (through a judging function) to knock on the door and see if anyone's home. Se sees the concrete, technical, tangible actual possibilities it can *do* with these objects. Rather simplified example, but I think the point still stands. It's why Se types are stereotyped as doers.

Si would see a singular house as the most splendid, wonderful thing ever, their idealized perfect home... the house they want someday. They'd reserve that house and make it their own future goal or dream. Si would look at all the other houses and bypass them. All the other houses are dull because they're not Si's beautiful house. Si's house is an idealized, benevolent creature. Every time Si passes another house, it visualizes "it's" house, and views all the other houses as malevolent demons in comparison. 

I could totally be interpreting this wrong, but that's how I see it. Si is picking and grabbing details, choosing them selectively, contrasting and comparing all the other details as wrong, because they're not "their" idealized detail. All those other details are devalued. Se just sees a fucking house. Not that they can't like or dislike the interior design of a house... absolutely not. We all have tastes. Just like how Si can possibly end up liking all those houses it disvalues.

If Si saw it's beautiful dream house as a child in a Barbie catalog, that's Si's house. Si only wants to live in this beautiful Barbie Dream House in all it's 2 story, 6 roomed, pink furnished glory. Fuck other houses. Si sits in the back of it's mothers' car, staring out the window whilst viewing all these other houses. Sooo boring. "I hate all these houses," Si says. "I want a Barbie Dream House". All Si can see, whilst observing other houses, is Barbie Dream House. Eventually, day after day, week after week, month after month, Si sees these houses and actually starts enjoying their exterior designs. Maybe there's room for something other than just "Barbie Dream House". Who knows, eventually Barbie Dream House might just end up bland and tasteless in comparison.

Compare to Se. Se is flipping through a catalog, circles the Barbie Dream House, and begs it's parents for it. Under the Christmas tree, in silver, tinsel-y wrapping paper, torn to shreds and dismantled, the beautiful Barbie Dream House is showcased. Se is *thrilled*. Se plays with it's Barbie Dream House endlessly, day after day, exploring every nook and cranny of Barbie Dream House, playing every concrete scenario it can scheme up with each Barbie, until Se has done everything it can with it's Barbie Dream House. Se is bored now, and stores Barbie Dream House in the closet as it collects dust while Se begs for the latest, hottest, newest doll house they saw on TV. 

So as you can see, Se is quicker to note or hotly lust after a new detail. Si is more mixed, ambivalent, combobulated in it's approach to details. Si takes in what it knows, and when it's crossed a new bridge, it's apprehensive because it hasn't been evaluated. Si likes new things, but is much murkier in the process of enjoying them in comparison to the Se, who obsesses over the latest and greatest until it's become stale and moves on to the next thing (this is partly why Se and Ne get confused. Both are about possibilities; the difference is concrete versus abstract).

This is my interpretation... anyone offering critique or criticism is appreciated. But understanding Si in this way made me realize that yes... I use Si. It can kick me in the ass, yet also become a glorious thing. 
@shinynotshiny curious here.... which description resonates with you?


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## Deadly Decorum (Feb 23, 2014)

Double post.


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## Halcyon (Jun 21, 2013)

hoopla said:


> @_Halcyon_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ah, thank you so much! I found this extremely understandable (because yay for examples /glares at Jung) and it's definitely in line with how I observe Si types' thinking and behavior. I soooooort of knew this already but I've never seen it put so clearly, although I can't really confirm or deny its accuracy. I'm curious to see how shiny relates or doesn't to this because I, as an Ni-dom, really didn't all that much. But yeah, thanks for this. ^^;

I did say _one_ paragraph, though. :tongue:


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## Deadly Decorum (Feb 23, 2014)

Halcyon said:


> Ah, thank you so much! I found this extremely understandable (because yay for examples /glares at Jung) and it's definitely in line with how I observe Si types' thinking and behavior. I soooooort of knew this already but I've never seen it put so clearly, although I can't really confirm or deny its accuracy. I'm curious to see how shiny relates or doesn't to this because I, as an Ni-dom, really didn't all that much. But yeah, thanks for this. ^^;
> 
> I did say _one_ paragraph, though. :tongue:


I can't provide a singular paragraph. I have to expand. I sucked at essays in high school. "I didn't require a college level term paper". I violated due dates a lot. "Uh sorry my paper's going to be late".

Yeah... Jung is intuition written all over his face. I know some people consider me an intuitive, but I think my ability to break everything down concretely, as well as my dire need to do so in order to understand Jung, shows my sensor-y vibes. Jung is a heavy fucking read. I've had to interpret, reinterpret, read the online available psychological types over and over again until it all clicked and made sense. That's what I do. Read the same thing repetitively until I gain new ways of viewing it. Ti breaks everything down. Si-Ne.


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## Halcyon (Jun 21, 2013)

hoopla said:


> I can't. I have to expand.
> 
> Yeah... Jung is intuition written all over his face. I know some people consider me an intuitive, but I think my ability to break everything down concretely, as well as my dire need in order to understand Jung, shows my sensor-y vibes. Jung is a heavy fucking read. I've had to interpret, reinterpret, read the online available psychological types over and over again until it all clicked and made sense. That's what I do. Read the same thing repetitively until I gain new ways of viewing it. Ti breaks everything down. Si-Ne.


That's cool, and I doubt I'd have the patience for it all so I commend you for that. roud:

And I was just kiddin' about the one paragraph thing. :tongue:


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## Deadly Decorum (Feb 23, 2014)

Halcyon said:


> That's cool, and I doubt I'd have the patience for it all so I commend you for that. roud:
> 
> And I was just kiddin' about the one paragraph thing. :tongue:


Taking a joke and makin it serious... it's what I do.

Haha, I'm actually lazy, I've mostly read the feeling and sensing descriptions over and over as those are the ones I'm really striving to understand. I've glossed and skimmed over the thinking and intuitive functions. I should be working on the intuition functions first, but Si was identified in me as a dom function, and I couldn't understand it at all, and I wanted to. The descriptions of Si here really suck and often can apply to anyone. 

As for everything else.... I'll get to that shit eventually. Pro procrastinator.


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## Jinsei (Aug 4, 2014)

Blue Flare said:


> Good, about science fiction, I've liked the Foundation saga, as it focus more on political issues and the tech isn't that flashy compared to other books. So I guess that fantasy is less meaningful for you as it doesn't show any glimpse of the current reality. The bland part could be just weak sensing in general and maybe enneagram related too, as you've typed as a type 5. So at the moment I haven't seen anything against Ni-Se, as you may be just detached of your inferior thanks to depression and enneagram too, as type 5 prefers to not engage reality until you've hoarded enough knowledge.


I loved the Foundation Saga... I think I had read most of Asimov, Arthur C. Clarke, and Orson Scott Card between middle school and high school. I loved how it connected to his iRobot saga too. I think I loved it more for the sense of the grand picture of everything I got when I finished... looking back at it all from beginning to end I remember thinking, wow... now that is a story!



Blue Flare said:


> At least IXTJ is clear from what I've read.


I agree... I would lean in the direction of INTJ myself. I'm thinking more Ni/Se...


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

Jinsei said:


> That bold statement speaks to inferior S to me... my S side comes out in not so healthy ways when I am depressed... which I am right now. Why do you relate to Si in those instances vs Se?


I relate to Si in terms of dwelling on past experiences and how I feel in the present moment. I also become anxious and want to stick with what's safe.

I relate to Se in terms of adopting a "so what/who cares" attitude and doing things I normally don't allow myself to do.


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

Jinsei said:


> I tried reading The Silmarillion and *was like yeah... nope*. While I can appreciate the fact that through all those details Tolkien was creating an entire world... sorry... I just want to know what happens and how it ends lol.


This was my reaction after the first few pages :laughing:


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## Blue Soul (Mar 14, 2015)

Ok, so you're an ITJ. We just have to figure out if you're Si- or Ni-dom.

And for the record... I skipped Tolkien's songs and poems.


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## Jinsei (Aug 4, 2014)

shinynotshiny said:


> I relate to Si in terms of dwelling on past experiences and how I feel in the present moment. I also become anxious and want to stick with what's safe.
> 
> I relate to Se in terms of adopting a "so what/who cares" attitude and doing things I normally don't allow myself to do.


Both inferior Se and the inferior shadow Si could be trying to assert themselves in your depression. Primary Fi and inferior Te doesn't quite fit at all for you in my opinion... neither does primary Ne (doubt you relate to ENFP at all lol)... INTJ I think might be the best fit over ISTJ. Depression may be having an influence on why it doesn't feel like it fits perfectly right now... but that is just an Ni hunch lol.


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

Jinsei said:


> Both inferior Se and the inferior shadow Si could be trying to assert themselves in your depression. Primary Fi and inferior Te doesn't quite fit at all for you in my opinion... neither does primary Ne (doubt you relate to ENFP at all lol)... INTJ I think might be the best fit over ISTJ. Depression may be having an influence on why it doesn't feel like it fits perfectly right now... but that is just an Ni hunch lol.



How would inferior Ne manifest itself? I remember reading about impulsiveness and a preoccupation with worst case scenarios.

Primary Fi and inferior Te was a shock, but I explored it anyway because I have strong values and a very introverted take on life. Not quite right though 

Ne dom is a mystery and I prefer to put my efforts into one thing, ideally.

I'm going to look into socionics in a bit. Hopefully something will click.


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## Jinsei (Aug 4, 2014)

shinynotshiny said:


> Ne dom is a mystery and *I prefer to put my efforts into one thing, ideally.*


Hrm... explain what you mean. I have a hunch this could be a combination of Ni and Te



shinynotshiny said:


> How would inferior Ne manifest itself? I remember reading about impulsiveness and a preoccupation with worst case scenarios.


Sounds about right... not sure entirely but I would imagine in extreme cases maybe even paranoia ie: Seeing nefarious hidden meaning in everything... Overwhelming stress can tend to bring out the nasties in our subconscious and with inferior functions being fairly subconscious for the most part... well you can make the connection there.

For me in depression, inferior Se manifests in a lack of concern for orderliness or neatness (apartment gets pretty messy and I hate it... but I don't do a darn thing about it)... as well as over indulgence in things that appeal to me sensory wise... ex: junk food Avoidance and escapism also manifest... probably due to the connection to Ni.


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

Jinsei said:


> Hrm... explain what you mean. I have a hunch this could be a combination of Ni and Te


I prefer giving my attention to one subject or area and then mastering it, or getting as much meaning out of it as possible. I can have a bit of an obsessive or addictive personality... If something interests me, it really interests me. I'd rather put my mind on it completely than know many things at once on a superficial level. Not sure what that says about me.



> Sounds about right... not sure entirely but I would imagine in extreme cases maybe even paranoia ie: Seeing nefarious hidden meaning in everything... Overwhelming stress can tend to bring out the nasties in our subconscious and with inferior functions being fairly subconscious for the most part... well you can make the connection there.


That's interesting because I've seen paranoia attributed to INTJ or possibly INTP? I think it was that link you shared a while back. I do have a general distrust of people, but I consider that being realistic 

Can't say I'm impulsive though.



> For me in depression, inferior Se manifests in a lack of concern for orderliness or neatness (apartment gets pretty messy and I hate it... but I don't do a darn thing about it)... as well as over indulgence in things that appeal to me sensory wise... ex: junk food Avoidance and escapism also manifest... probably due to the connection to Ni.


My orderliness can go either way. Sometimes I clean and organize to relieve stress or take my mind off things. Usually I let things pile up.

I overindulge, but when I do it's usually when I'm at my worst and I don't care about the consequences. That's why I always try to keep control.

My procrastination has no equal


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## Blue Soul (Mar 14, 2015)

hoopla said:


> One cannot truly know itself, at least not independently. One knows itself through interpretations or spoonfeedings from people, experiences, books, media, the like. These very things shape or mold a person. People's assessments of themselves are often off, at least on a subconscious level. Herein lies the tricky, insidious, manipulative persona of the human psyche. You think you know yourself, but you only know an idealized version of yourself. You then reveal the idealized self masqueraded as your genuine personality externally, and the general consensus breaks up through the mask right away, but the individual fails to see it because this very manipulation is subconsciously embedded within the psyche.


I can't help but notice how Fe/Ti this statement is.


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## Deadly Decorum (Feb 23, 2014)

Blue Soul said:


> I can't help but notice how Fe/Ti this statement is.


May or may not have exaggerated it 

I think you can know yourself, and can explore who you are inside, independently, but that sometimes our opinions on ourselves are off base, murky, deceptive, manipulative, or deluded. That's why I like outside interpretations, to mull over what hasn't been considered. 

I think @shinynotshiny's reaction was Te/Fi personified. 

I will tell you this though, I get hyper-enthusiastic and sell a point without considering outside factors, thinking I'm a greater deity than what the sum of all my parts in my brain genuinely constitute. And I did that to you, which was unfair and unfounded, and I see how it rubbed you the wrong way to make such suggestions. Shouldn't have been my call.

I just think your associations are internalized and primarily sensory. That's what I mean with the klingon example. It was clearly a perception, but based on something concrete. A "thing". Ni is similar, but it's perceptions are not tied in something concrete and sensory. When Ni is perceiving, it's image is abstracted, an image outsiders wouldn't understand as it's not tangible in reality. I haven't seen that from you yet. 

You're clearly Te/Fi, either way.


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## Blue Soul (Mar 14, 2015)

hoopla said:


> I think @shinynotshiny's reaction was Te/Fi personified.
> 
> I will tell you this though, I get hyper-enthusiastic and sell a point without considering outside factors, thinking I'm a greater deity than what the sum of all my parts in my brain genuinely constitute. And I did that to you, which was unfair and unfounded, and I see how it rubbed you the wrong way to make such suggestions. Shouldn't have been my call.
> 
> ...


This is directed at shinynotshiny, right?


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## Deadly Decorum (Feb 23, 2014)

Blue Soul said:


> This is directed at shinynotshiny, right?


Your brain is sharp and strongly intact.


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## Blue Soul (Mar 14, 2015)

hoopla said:


> Your brain is sharp and strongly intact.


It's just that you went from being objective to "you"-form. ^^


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## Deadly Decorum (Feb 23, 2014)

Blue Soul said:


> It's just that you went from being objective to "you"-form. ^^


I'm guessing your prefer the Fe side.

Either way I'm derailing the thread, like always.


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## Blue Soul (Mar 14, 2015)

hoopla said:


> I'm guessing your prefer the Fe side.
> 
> Either way I'm derailing the thread, like always.


No, I am the derailing it! D:<


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

hoopla said:


> May or may not have exaggerated it
> 
> I think you can know yourself, and can explore who you are inside, independently, but that sometimes our opinions on ourselves are off base, murky, deceptive, manipulative, or deluded. That's why I like outside interpretations, to mull over what hasn't been considered.
> 
> ...


I appreciate you saying so.

Your argument still doesn't convince me. I have a hard time believing something as simple as saying "sounds like klingon to me" defines me as Si/Ne. If other people see what you see, then I need their explanations.


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## Halcyon (Jun 21, 2013)

hoopla said:


> Either way I'm derailing the thread, like always.





Blue Soul said:


> No, I am the derailing it! D:<


Fight to the death. :tongue:


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

hoopla said:


> When Ni is perceiving, it's image is abstracted, an image outsiders wouldn't understand as it's not tangible in reality. I haven't seen that from you yet.


Am I supposed to pull something brand new and shiny out of the void?

I think we need a comparison of Si working with Te and Si working with Fe. This is starting to exasperate me.


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## Blue Soul (Mar 14, 2015)

shinynotshiny said:


> Am I supposed to pull something brand new and shiny out of the void?
> 
> I think we need a comparison of Si working with Te and Si working with Fe. This is starting to exasperate me.


Don't despair. I think @hoopla knows what she's looking for, it's just a matter of bringing it out, proving it and convincing you. To be fair, I've said I've seen both Ni/Se and Si. So it's tricky to say the least.


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

Blue Soul said:


> Don't despair. I think @_hoopla_ knows what she's looking for, it's just a matter of bringing it out, proving it and convincing you. To be fair, I've said I've seen both Ni/Se and Si. So it's tricky to say the least.


I'd like to know your take on Si.

And I'm sure she knows what she's looking for, but she'll need better arguments to convince me. Something airtight. The same is true for Ni.


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## Dragheart Luard (May 13, 2013)

shinynotshiny said:


> Am I supposed to pull something brand new and shiny out of the void?
> 
> I think we need a comparison of Si working with Te and Si working with Fe. This is starting to exasperate me.


About that, Jung's descriptions will not be useful for that purpose, as they're of unbalanced people that practically had no aux function. Hm, socionics can help though as there are descriptions of both Si doms. I haven't seen good MBTI descriptions so this ones can help:

Sensing Logical Introtim - Wikisocion
Sensing Ethical Introtim - Wikisocion


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

Blue Flare said:


> About that, Jung's descriptions will not be useful for that purpose, as they're of unbalanced people that practically had no aux function. Hm, socionics can help though as there are descriptions of both Si doms. I haven't seen good MBTI descriptions so this ones can help:
> 
> Sensing Logical Introtim - Wikisocion
> Sensing Ethical Introtim - Wikisocion


Thank you.

I'll compare Si/Te and Ni/Te.


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## Blue Soul (Mar 14, 2015)

shinynotshiny said:


> I'd like to know your take on Si.


Si is subjective sensing. I know the memory function is only a part of it, and I believe it's often misrepresented as _only_ such. It's in fact much more than that. It's a reliance on comparison between past and present, with focus on drawing from one's own knowledge. Si-users are in tune with their own senses.

I think you know more about Si than me though, you can probably point out something I missed (which I would appreciate btw, always in for learning more). I base much of what I know on one of my brothers and my dad, who both are ISTJs.


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

> *Introverted Sensing*
> 
> SLIs are naturally good at knowing what kinds of activities and stimuli will produce which sensations and physical states in themselves and the people around them. They are highly sensitive to sensations of internal discomfort and dissonance, or when someone or something is aesthetically out of place. They usually take quick action to remove the discomfort, dissonance, or misplacement so that things "feel right." They are attracted to material (concrete) objects which produce the "right" sensations and physical states, such as stereo systems which produce the best sounds or clothes that produce the best feelings either through their pleasant texture and ease of use or through their aesthetic appeal. They dislike it when others deny them of pleasurable material objects and can get quite possessive and territorial when claiming or re-claiming them.
> 
> ...





> *Extraverted Thinking*
> 
> SLIs typically have a *dry, matter-of-fact speaking style and focus on conveying accurate information rather than emotions*. They like to take note of and *emphasize the usefulness or uselessness of things* and how well things or people achieve their intended goals. SLIs are often masters at getting the greatest return from the fewest possible actions.
> 
> ...


It just doesn't make sense to me. I don't feel socionics Si translates well, or at all, to MBTI Si (unless I'm misunderstanding MBTI Si).

I'll look at Ni/Te.


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

Blue Soul said:


> Si is subjective sensing. I know the memory function is only a part of it, and I believe it's often misrepresented as _only_ such. It's in fact much more than that. It's a reliance on comparison between past and present, with focus on drawing from one's own knowledge. Si-users are in tune with their own senses.
> 
> I think you know more about Si than me though, you can probably point out something I missed (which I would appreciate btw, always in for learning more). I base much of what I know on one of my brothers and my dad, who both are ISTJs.


Thank you, although I meant I want your take on Si and how I use it


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## Blue Soul (Mar 14, 2015)

shinynotshiny said:


> Thank you, although I meant I want your take on Si and how I use it


Ah, sorry. 

I'll have to get back to that tomorrow maybe, when I'm not as tired.


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

> *Introverted Sensing*
> 
> SEIs have a strong connection to and ability to recognize internal physical states in themselves and others. They understand how these states are reached and are able to easily recreate or avoid them if desired. They are innately drawn to situations that satisfy their inner physical needs and experience. They are usually skilled at the art of recreation, enjoyment, and *positive aesthetic experience*.
> 
> ...





> *Extraverted Ethics*
> 
> SEIs are sensitive to the emotional atmosphere around them, either from an individual, a group, or even from inanimate objects and their physical environment. A positive emotional atmosphere is essential to their sense of well being and inner peace, and they either try to create that atmosphere by directly influencing their surrounding, or by *simply removing themselves from the situation or people that in their view is the cause of a negative emotional environment*. In the former case they often use humor to lighten the atmosphere by cracking jokes and lighthearted teasing.
> 
> ...


If I had to choose between this (Si/Fe) and the first description (Si/Te), I would have to go with the first description. I wonder if @hoopla relates to this in any way.


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

> *Introverted Intuition*
> 
> Introverted intuition in ILIs is often characterized by well-developed imaginative abilities and *mental wanderings*. They can *spend a great deal of time simply thinking and may appear to live 'in their heads'*. This mental focus is demonstrated through *reflection on scenarios, pondering bodies of information, etc*. They can be prone to *excessive daydreaming*, creation of intricate inner worlds or universes, or *considering the past or future*. ILIs may even have novelistic tendencies with the ability to create intricate plots, characters and places. *ILIs, however, are not necessarily inclined to share their imagination with others.* (This is a big one for me. My stuff is private and only the people closest to me know this side of me.)
> 
> ...





> *Extraverted Logic*
> 
> ILIs place *great importance on factual accuracy and a basic understanding of how things work*. They may be inclined to *look down on *or pity* people who consistently demonstrate ignorance of what they consider to be simple, essential facts*. It is often also very important to ILIs that a person's beliefs account for any new factual information. For this reason, ILI's are often characterized by a nagging and constant sense of doubt, contradiction, and misinformation. *They tend to be skeptical of other people's positions, and even frequently question their own. In groups the ILI will often question the validity of the information exchanged.* Likewise, many ILIs will use a mocking and aggressive tone if they believe that the information being presented is incorrect or absurd. ILIs can also be very* adept at removing errors in facts and statistical data, especially in undertakings that they consider as high priorities*. ILIs may brush off failure unconcernedly, viewing it as merely a necessary misstep on the road towards success.
> 
> ...


This I can relate to, but I think it's unfair to compare it to the description of Si/Te because it's longer and provides more examples.


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## Dragheart Luard (May 13, 2013)

shinynotshiny said:


> This I can relate to, but I think it's unfair to compare it to the description of Si/Te because it's longer and provides more examples.


About descriptions, Stratievskaya's are more detailed, though there may be some untranslated words:

Stratievskaya SLI - Wikisocion
Stratievskaya ILI - Wikisocion

Also I recommend to read the whole descriptions, as that could give a clearer idea of both types.


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

Blue Flare said:


> About descriptions, Stratievskaya's are more detailed, though there may be some untranslated words:
> 
> Stratievskaya SLI - Wikisocion
> Stratievskaya ILI - Wikisocion
> ...



This was great. I was able to relate to SLI in certain things, specifically the approach to relationships and emotions. I still don't relate to the description of dominant Si, but I do appreciate aesthetics mixed with practically. There was something in the description about that.

I also related to ILI. I feel ILI captures who I am as a whole whereas SLI captures my intense moments (ex. being harsh without realizing how it affects others). I also noticed something interesting. I was under the impression INTJ/ILI didn't pay too much attention to detail, but the ILI is described as being meticulous in their work and weeding out any errors before completing. The SLI also pays attention to detail but not in the same way. I saw myself in the ILI description. I always attributed it to ISTJ/SLI.

Having said that, Im sure there are key differences in socionics and MBTI. I'm tired and need to reread this with a clearer head.

Oh, as far as inferior functions go, I'm low energy ILI all the way. I also can't imagine being active and mountain climbing or keeping my body fit, which was part of the SLI description... but I HAVE considered sky diving. One fall, maybe a few more 

Right, that's all for now. Thanks for your help so far!


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## To_august (Oct 13, 2013)

shinynotshiny said:


> But most people have felt this way regardless of type. Preferring the familiar to the unfamiliar can go a lot of ways. It can be general or situational. That's where my confusion lies, saying behavior like this is unique to certain types or functions.


Agreed, no behaviour is unique to any type and anybody can show different behaviour depending on the circumstances. But I didn't mean it in terms of 'I-do-this-too', but more in terms of motivation behind leading Pe and that it tends to drive people into certain kinds of behaviour.



shinynotshiny said:


> Now I'm wondering what kind of book the average ISTJ enjoys.


I'm not entirely sure of my type, but supposed average ISTJ here.
As much as I enjoyed LoTR I don't like long-winded description in books. I just found descriptions in LoTR to be meaningful and adding something to the story, reflecting and/or deepening the plot, characters and the world author created. That was a rare occasion when I actually liked presence of descriptive element in the book. 
One can contrast it with Jane Eyre for example. There are FAR more descriptions, that of moors, landscapes, houses and all the other stuff that made me yawn all over the book.

Silmarillion is quite different as far as I remember. I don't recall if there were any descriptions in it at all. It was more like a mythological history textbook. At first this happened, then that and then also this and so here is the story of several tens of thousands - or whatever the time-span was there - years. Its style and narrative manner do not provide for the easy read though.

I mostly enjoy Sci-Fi, magical realism and all different kinds of books falling under the umbrella 'speculative fiction' genre, horror, hard science fiction. Among non-fictional ones I go in for books with political and/or historical elements. Things like Marcel Proust are not my cup of tea. I get the vibe that his writings are loaded with Si, but they are far too sensory impressionistic and bland as to my taste (I guess he is some kind of Si-Fe).

I think it may be worth to mention, that hoopla's examples may seem weird or distasteful to you because she comes from Si-Fe perspective and if you're indeed an IxTJ it makes you Fe PoLR as well. So, Si-Fe can rub you the wrong way.


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

To_august said:


> Agreed, no behaviour is unique to any type and anybody can show different behaviour depending on the circumstances. But I didn't mean it in terms of 'I-do-this-too', but more in terms of motivation behind leading Pe and that it tends to drive people into certain kinds of behaviour.


I see, I'm sorry for misinterpreting 



To_august said:


> I'm not entirely sure of my type, but supposed average ISTJ here.
> As much as I enjoyed LoTR I don't like long-winded description in books. I just found descriptions in LoTR to be meaningful and adding something to the story, reflecting and/or deepening the plot, characters and the world author created. That was a rare occasion when I actually liked presence of descriptive element in the book.
> One can contrast it with Jane Eyre for example. There are FAR more descriptions, that of moors, landscapes, houses and all the other stuff that made me yawn all over the book.


I read Jane Eyre years ago and don't remember as much attention to detail, but I did think the setting was bland.



To_august said:


> Silmarillion is quite different as far as I remember. I don't recall if there were any descriptions in it at all. It was more like a mythological history textbook. At first this happened, then that and then also this and so here is the story of several tens of thousands - or whatever the time-span was there - years. Its style and narrative manner do not provide for the easy read though.


Mythological history book. That's a good way of putting it. 



To_august said:


> I mostly enjoy Sci-Fi, magical realism and all different kinds of books falling under the umbrella 'speculative fiction' genre, horror, hard science fiction. Among non-fictional ones I go in for books with political and/or historical elements. Things like Marcel Proust are not my cup of tea. *I get the vibe that his writings are loaded with Si*, but they are far too sensory impressionistic and bland as to my taste (I guess he is some kind of *Si-Fe*).


Proust Phenomenon



To_august said:


> I think it may be worth to mention, that hoopla's examples may seem weird or distasteful to you because she comes from Si-Fe perspective and if you're indeed an IxTJ it makes you Fe PoLR as well. So, Si-Fe can rub you the wrong way.


Yes, I realized this might be the reason for our differences. There's a socionics description of Si and Fe working together earlier in the thread. I wonder how much @hoopla relates to it, if at all.


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## owlet (May 7, 2010)

I'm thinking definitely a Te-Fi user, but I'm just going to go through a bit to see.



shinynotshiny said:


> I picked up the LoTR books a few years ago and struggled to finish them. It's not that I didn't enjoy the story, it's that a lot of the details felt unnecessary to the plot. I've had The Silmarillion on my bookshelf for years. I don't know when I'll have the motivation to finally pick it up.
> *Very Se-Te.*
> 
> I find reality bland for the most part, but I prefer science-fiction or speculative fiction to fantasy. Fantasy is fun on a superficial level. It can be creative and intelligent and weird, but it doesn't always say something about who we are as a society. (That's not always true, but fantasy as a whole is less likely to catch my eye.) It also tends to take us back rather than explore our future or the consequences of our actions. I like science-fiction that's grounded in some sort of logic and expands on what we know or where we are. I'm not going to enjoy something that's just flashy space suits and teleporters. I might as well pick up an action movie.
> ...


I don't think you do use Si-Ne, but rather Ni-Se. What do you think about ENTJ (which would put your Se higher up)?


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

laurie17 said:


> I'm thinking definitely a Te-Fi user, but I'm just going to go through a bit to see.
> 
> I don't think you do use Si-Ne, but rather Ni-Se. What do you think about ENTJ (which would put your Se higher up)?


You know, I've thought about it... but I'm such a withdrawn person I can't imagine myself as anything other than an introvert. I know it has more to do with extraverting your dominant function rather than being socially extraverted, but it's hard to imagine nonetheless. I also think I'm too "soft" to be ENTJ even though a lot of that softness has to do with my fluctuating moods.


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## owlet (May 7, 2010)

shinynotshiny said:


> You know, I've thought about it... but I'm such a withdrawn person I can't imagine myself as anything other than an introvert. I know it has more to do with extraverting your dominant function rather than being socially extraverted, but it's hard to imagine nonetheless. I also think I'm too "soft" to be ENTJ even though a lot of that softness has to do with my fluctuating moods.


ENTJ's Te is most about just making things concise and efficient to avoid wasting time and energy - Fe is the one that is more people-focused. If a Te dominant has to get something done, they'll try to work out the most efficient way, but usually they dislike working with people as they're unknown variables. They're also very prone to Fi bursts under stress, which leads to strong feelings of a lack of value in themselves.

I think there's a stereotype of ENTJs as aggressive, but I'm not really sure where that comes from. Probably the same place as INTJs as all nihilistic and ISTJs as lifeless office workers...


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

laurie17 said:


> ENTJ's Te is most about just making things concise and efficient to avoid wasting time and energy - Fe is the one that is more people-focused. If a Te dominant has to get something done, they'll try to work out the most efficient way, but usually they dislike working with people as they're unknown variables. *They're also very prone to Fi bursts under stress, which leads to strong feelings of a lack of value in themselves.*


Hm. I especially relate to that last part.



laurie17 said:


> I think there's a stereotype of ENTJs as aggressive, but I'm not really sure where that comes from. Probably the same place as INTJs as all nihilistic and ISTJs as lifeless office workers...


I was thinking more along the lines of "leader" instead of aggressive. 

The ISTJ stereotypes have been frustrating, to say the least.


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## owlet (May 7, 2010)

shinynotshiny said:


> I was thinking more along the lines of "leader" instead of aggressive.
> 
> The ISTJ stereotypes have been frustrating, to say the least.


I think ExFJs are more likely to be leaders of people, whereas ExTJs are just usually very good at organising objects i.e. schedules in work, meeting deadlines (boring examples, but I can't think of any others off the top of my head). As they lead with Te, and ENTJ's Ni will back up the judgement of what is objectively correct/incorrect, plus how to make things work most effectively, with pattern-noticing and narrowing the scope - but it will be weaker than Te.
Also, in ENTJs, Se will be more apparent than in INTJs, so they may appear more grounded (potentially being confused with ESTJs or ISTJs, but these types tend to have an idea of how things 'should' be vs the Ni idea of what is the most likely to be).
Fi as an inferior function makes the ENTJ have a sort of inner sensitivity for their own idea of right and wrong, which can contradict/conflict with their dominant Te's objectivity and cause a sense of having prioritised poorly in their lives i.e. thoughts like 'I should have spent more time with my family instead of working' occasionally pop up. Or even assuming they're disliked, despite external evidence to the contrary.

Yeah, most of the SJ types tend to get a hard time, which means there are relatively few articles on them and it's annoyingly difficult to research.


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

laurie17 said:


> I think ExFJs are more likely to be leaders of people, whereas ExTJs are just usually very good at organising objects i.e. schedules in work, meeting deadlines (boring examples, but I can't think of any others off the top of my head). As they lead with Te, and ENTJ's Ni will back up the judgement of what is objectively correct/incorrect, plus how to make things work most effectively, with pattern-noticing and narrowing the scope - but it will be weaker than Te.
> Also, in ENTJs, Se will be more apparent than in INTJs, so they may appear more grounded (potentially being confused with ESTJs or ISTJs, but these types tend to have an idea of how things 'should' be vs the Ni idea of what is the most likely to be).
> Fi as an inferior function makes the ENTJ have a sort of inner sensitivity for their own idea of right and wrong, which can contradict/conflict with their dominant Te's objectivity and cause a sense of having prioritised poorly in their lives i.e. thoughts like 'I should have spent more time with my family instead of working' occasionally pop up. Or even assuming they're disliked, despite external evidence to the contrary.
> 
> Yeah, most of the SJ types tend to get a hard time, which means there are relatively few articles on them and it's annoyingly difficult to research.


I never imagined I could relate to an extroverted type, but here I am.

I'll have to add ENTJ to my list and continue my search. If you happen to get a sense of Si/Ne from any of my posts, it might help me understand what @hoopla sees. She's been the only SJ to chime in, I believe.

Thanks for your input. I have more and more to think about.


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## owlet (May 7, 2010)

shinynotshiny said:


> I never imagined I could relate to an extroverted type, but here I am.
> 
> I'll have to add ENTJ to my list and continue my search. If you happen to get a sense of Si/Ne from any of my posts, it might help me understand what @_hoopla_ sees. She's been the only SJ to chime in, I believe.
> 
> Thanks for your input. I have more and more to think about.


Hm, I see more Se-Te drive than Si-Te, but I could be mistaken.


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

Nope. Still nothing.


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