# ISFP or INFP



## KevinHeaven (Apr 6, 2015)

OK so guys who is good at explaining Se vs Ne. I am confused. I feel like an ISFP more than an INFP but I still get INFP.


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## animalfromthesea (Nov 19, 2014)

*Se*

Extraverted Sensing (or Se) is focused on the present. It deals with what is right in front of them by using it's five senses. Se is adventurous and loves enjoying the finer things in life whether. SP's love using their hands in an activities and being able to create something aestethically pleasing. THe most common words associated with extraverted sensing are: adventurous, fun, impulsive, excitement-seeking, ...

*Ne*

Extraverted Intuition (Ne) is focused on the future. It deals with connections that aren't obvious to the five senses. Ne is often confused with Se because both of these functions get easily bored by routine and don't always want stability like Ni and Si. The difference is that Se seeks excitement and pleasure while Ne desires improvement and new ways of thinking. Extraverted Intuition is often associated with: creativity, imagination, possibilities, big picture thinking,...


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## KevinHeaven (Apr 6, 2015)

animalfromthesea said:


> *Se*
> 
> Extraverted Sensing (or Se) is focused on the present. It deals with what is right in front of them by using it's five senses. Se is adventurous and loves enjoying the finer things in life whether. SP's love using their hands in an activities and being able to create something aestethically pleasing. THe most common words associated with extraverted sensing are: adventurous, fun, impulsive, excitement-seeking, ...
> 
> ...


I am both


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## animalfromthesea (Nov 19, 2014)

KevinInHeaven said:


> I am both


Awww, it's okay lol I used to be confused about them too when i was still figuring out my type. 

Anyway, what i think makes xSFP's different from xNFP's is that are more "focused" on things since they have Se which helps them concentrate on what is happening right in front of them which some Ne users struggle to do since they can never put 100% of their attention on something. Also, Se is very attracted to beautiful things which makes them more likely to be involved in some artistic activity (singing, painting, cooking,...). Ne always tries to find what hides behind all the artifices that hide the true meaning of things (xNTP's) or people (xNFP's). This is something some xSxP's have difficulties to handle since they pay attention on what directly "hits" their senses.

Also, when you say "i am both": what do you mean by that? Of course, it's impossible to completely relate to one function so feeling like both Se and Ne seem to match with your personality is totally normal.


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## mirrorghost (Sep 18, 2012)

i am an INFP and my boyfriend is an ISFP. i know i am not giving a technical function vs. function reply, but i will just tell you how we experience things, and ways i notice that we tend to differ.

stereotypically, he is a great artist and dresser. he also has an extremely good eye for physical details, like he's always pointing out shades of black that are different in his clothing, haha. he'll say "this black is too green." i probably wouldn't even notice unless it was in bright sunlight. i'm not saying that this one instance proves his good use of Se, but he definitely has strong Se. i also find that when he lets his tertiary Ni loose, he can imagine the worst things that can happen, that are very unlikely. (at least i think that's tertiary/inferior Ni acting up?) i think i dress well too and we are both kind of "offbeat"/non mainstream dressers, but his eye for detail adds that extra oomph so to speak. 

he likes to do things, tinker with things, take things apart. he is "good with his hands." i tend to be more analytical and "in my head." i love to read a lot, which is stereotypically INFP and i have my "causes." he often tells me i am too abstract and that he has trouble following my train of thought (Ne.)

also, he tends to get antsy if he's sitting inside all day, on a daily basis. he needs to get out there in the world. i don't until after a few days, honestly. he also tends to notice things in his surroundings much more than i, like details on buildings. i am usually in my head thinking/abstracting, and often miss things in my surroundings until he points them out to me.

ETA: the reason i posted, is because i understand feeling like you have both sensing and intuiton, but one will be more intense/more important usually, and more obvious. sure, i love aesthetics and beautiful things and art, but he also loves surrealistic movies and abstract concepts too. not saying that it applies to you, but there is one function that probably comes more naturally than the other.


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## KevinHeaven (Apr 6, 2015)

mirrorghost said:


> i am an INFP and my boyfriend is an ISFP. i know i am not giving a technical function vs. function reply, but i will just tell you how we experience things, and ways i notice that we tend to differ.
> 
> stereotypically, he is a great artist and dresser. he also has an extremely good eye for physical details, like he's always pointing out shades of black that are different in his clothing, haha. he'll say "this black is too green." i probably wouldn't even notice unless it was in bright sunlight. i'm not saying that this one instance proves his good use of Se, but he definitely has strong Se. i also find that when he lets his tertiary Ni loose, he can imagine the worst things that can happen, that are very unlikely. (at least i think that's tertiary/inferior Ni acting up?) i think i dress well too and we are both kind of "offbeat"/non mainstream dressers, but his eye for detail adds that extra oomph so to speak.
> 
> ...


Thank you for commenting  I really relate to your boyfriend. I feel like I am a sensor. I crave beauty, details, pleasures (all sensory stuff) You will find me observing nature, drawing, playing the piano, singing, and writing poetry (Which is both Se and Ne like). I also imagine the worst things that could happen (But wait isn't that Ne). I am like an extreme sensor. But I may suddenly like disconnect go to my mind and my own fantasy and start daydreaming or thinking about the meaning of life. Like I would start thinking about the most random things and ask questions about them. I will start asking myself about the past and the future. At that moment my imagination expands and sometimes I would stare blankly (I hope that makes sense) until someone call my name. My room and how I like to live is Se all the way. Would rather have a beautiful object in place of a more useful object. I care about what things look a lot. I look in the mirror a lot which maybe due my low self-esteem. I enjoy sensory lyrics in my music. I pretty sure you are thinking of me as an ISFP but the weird part is I always get INFP on tests. Is it because I daydream a lot or because I always live in the future. I feel like I have a strong Se but it doesn't show. Even my daydreams and thoughts about things that are beautiful. Yes I do like reading but I just don't find time to do it and prefer drawing or music over it. I feel reading is a commitment  and I usually don't like to stick to something for too long. Do I come off to you more like an INFP or ISFP. Oh yeah my ennegram is 4w3 3w4 2w3


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## mirrorghost (Sep 18, 2012)

KevinInHeaven said:


> Thank you for commenting  I really relate to your boyfriend. I feel like I am a sensor. I crave beauty, details, pleasures (all sensory stuff) You will find me observing nature, drawing, playing the piano, singing, and writing poetry (Which is both Se and Ne like). I also imagine the worst things that could happen (But wait isn't that Ne). I am like an extreme sensor. But I may suddenly like disconnect go to my mind and my own fantasy and start daydreaming or thinking about the meaning of life. Like I would start thinking about the most random things and ask questions about them. I will start asking myself about the past and the future. At that moment my imagination expands and sometimes I would stare blankly (I hope that makes sense) until someone call my name. My room and how I like to live is Se all the way. Would rather have a beautiful object in place of a more useful object. I care about what things look a lot. I look in the mirror a lot which maybe due my low self-esteem. I enjoy sensory lyrics in my music. I pretty sure you are thinking of me as an ISFP but the weird part is I always get INFP on tests. Is it because I daydream a lot or because I always live in the future. I feel like I have a strong Se but it doesn't show. Even my daydreams and thoughts about things that are beautiful. Yes I do like reading but I just don't find time to do it and prefer drawing or music over it. I feel reading is a commitment  and I usually don't like to stick to something for too long. Do I come off to you more like an INFP or ISFP. Oh yeah my ennegram is 4w3 3w4 2w3


a lot of what you said sounds like both. i think both types can be daydreamy/romantic, and both can really appreciate beauty and aesthetics. you could be an INFP, though just based on your response, you sound a bit more ISFP to me. but i really don't know! just keep reading up on the types and see which one resonates more?

also, i like watching videos on youtube of interviews with different types too, to get a feel for how they act. i also like to read the threads about characters or celebrities with types to see who i identify with more. or sometimes i type people and compare them with people i know. for instance, awhile back, i watched a jimi hendrix documentary, and he immediately seemed like an ISFP type to me- soft spoken/had a soft sweetness about him, but very artistically expressive and an interesting dresser. then i read online that he is typed as an ISFP.

have you ever tried the 'help me find my type' threads? some people are very good at helping, though me maybe not so much


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## ferroequinologist (Jul 27, 2012)

KevinInHeaven said:


> Thank you for commenting  I really relate to your boyfriend. I feel like I am a sensor. I crave beauty, details, pleasures (all sensory stuff) You will find me observing nature, drawing, playing the piano, singing, and writing poetry (Which is both Se and Ne like). *I also imagine the worst things that could happen* (But wait isn't that Ne). I am like an extreme sensor. But I may suddenly like disconnect go to my mind and my own fantasy and start daydreaming or thinking about the meaning of life. Like I would start thinking about the most random things and ask questions about them. I will start asking myself about the past and the future. At that moment my imagination expands and sometimes I would stare blankly (I hope that makes sense) until someone call my name. My room and how I like to live is Se all the way. Would rather have a beautiful object in place of a more useful object. I care about what things look a lot. I look in the mirror a lot which maybe due my low self-esteem. I enjoy sensory lyrics in my music. I pretty sure you are thinking of me as an ISFP but the weird part is I always get INFP on tests. Is it because I daydream a lot or because I always live in the future. I feel like I have a strong Se but it doesn't show. Even my daydreams and thoughts about things that are beautiful. Yes I do like reading but I just don't find time to do it and prefer drawing or music over it. I feel reading is a commitment  and I usually don't like to stick to something for too long. Do I come off to you more like an INFP or ISFP. Oh yeah my ennegram is 4w3 3w4 2w3


I'll tell you what this sounds like to me. You are of the age when your weaker functions (Xi and Te) will be "coming on line" in the sense that they are beginning to develop, and you will be more aware of them. What you sound like (especially the bold text above) sounds more tert Ni than aux Ne. (although inferior Ne can be like this too)

One difference between Ne-Si vs Se-Ni is that Se and Ni tend to be more solution-focused. It is like taking the many that it sees, working through the possibilities, and seeking out the one, workable solution. Honestly, it's not so much the "best" but the most immediately workable one. There is a bit of tension with our Fi, however, as it seeks the absolute best, but frequently, we will simply find the most workable one solution. Ne, on the other hand, as I've experienced it second-hand from my wife, is a bit more open-ended. Her Ti desires to _know_ but her Ne constantly prevents her from being sure she actually has all the data. She held off writing a book for 10 years because she always felt she hadn't read everything, and hadn't explored the concept deeply enough, and she kept reading more and more--always seeking outwardly. Ne is like an explosion of concepts that are only timorously connected to reality, while Se is very much connected to reality.

One other difference I've noticed between my wife and me, and also other Ne types on PerC (especially INFPs) is that Ne types tend to be much, much, much more verbal than Se types. ISFPs are bad about not talking (writing is a bit of a different story), but speaking--we are people of few words. What's weird is that, I may think of all kinds of things I will say, but when my mouth opens, a tiny handful of words come out. Give my wife a good topic, and she'll talk for hours, weaving this way and that. Her INFP mom is the same way--she can talk for ages, and is totally oblivious about anything else, including any interjections someone might say. It's like they get caught up in their own world, and just disappear into it. I have two Ni daughters, and they also are less talkative, and when they do talk, they engage others directly. I think that's another thing. When we talk, we also tend to engage more directly with whoever we are talking to. 

In writing, it's a bit harder to tell, but we have had a few INFPs here who thought they were ISFP, but it didn't take long to notice their Ne preference. ;-)

I'll say that you sound to me more ISFP, but that is just me... Honestly, only you know yourself, even if it is difficult. I would suggest just thinking of yourself as an IXFP for now, and maybe spend some time in both forums. You'll work it out eventually. ;-)


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## deflowering (Apr 2, 2015)

If you are good at catching balls out of your eyesight, almost unconciously, you prefer Se. If you are not easily manipulated and good at reading between the lines you prefer Ne.


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## KevinHeaven (Apr 6, 2015)

deflowering said:


> If you are good at catching balls out of your eyesight, almost unconciously, you prefer Se. If you are not easily manipulated and good at reading between the lines you prefer Ne.


Haha I like that. I am not that good at catching balls at all. Well sometimes I do, but sometimes I get scared and try to avoid it.


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## KevinHeaven (Apr 6, 2015)

ferroequinologist said:


> I'll tell you what this sounds like to me. You are of the age when your weaker functions (Xi and Te) will be "coming on line" in the sense that they are beginning to develop, and you will be more aware of them. What you sound like (especially the bold text above) sounds more tert Ni than aux Ne. (although inferior Ne can be like this too)
> 
> One difference between Ne-Si vs Se-Ni is that Se and Ni tend to be more solution-focused. It is like taking the many that it sees, working through the possibilities, and seeking out the one, workable solution. Honestly, it's not so much the "best" but the most immediately workable one. There is a bit of tension with our Fi, however, as it seeks the absolute best, but frequently, we will simply find the most workable one solution. Ne, on the other hand, as I've experienced it second-hand from my wife, is a bit more open-ended. Her Ti desires to _know_ but her Ne constantly prevents her from being sure she actually has all the data. She held off writing a book for 10 years because she always felt she hadn't read everything, and hadn't explored the concept deeply enough, and she kept reading more and more--always seeking outwardly. Ne is like an explosion of concepts that are only timorously connected to reality, while Se is very much connected to reality.
> 
> ...


Here is the thing. I think a lot about the meaning of life. I have two contrasting point of views. One is you live only once and have fun. The other is what will stay here after you are gone is the change you made to the world. It doesn't matter if you had fun or not it is about the things you've done and changed. It's how you changed reality not about your emotions. your emotions are useless unless you acted upon them. Both of the leave a mark and have fun ideas unite with one lifestyle: Make your life into a piece of art. Sometimes I read too much between the lines. One of the easiest things that come to me is generating ideas ( for example songs ideas) but I get lazy to start working on them. I also hate sports. I love dancing for fun though. I am always dancing haha. I feel sadness can be pleasurable somehow. I love sad melodies and tragedies. Can bipolar and anxiety make someone appear more Ne in tests or something. The thing is there is a silly reason why I don't want to be INFP: all of my idols and icons are ISFP also I am too artsy and I want to be put in the artist categories.  I've read that 4w3s are usually INFP. Do you still think I can be an ISFP? I am a teenager so it's the age of changing the world ideas.


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## ferroequinologist (Jul 27, 2012)

KevinInHeaven said:


> One of the easiest things that come to me is generating ideas ( for example songs ideas) but I get lazy to start working on them. I also hate sports. I love dancing for fun though. I am always dancing haha. I feel sadness can be pleasurable somehow. I love sad melodies and tragedies.


This part sounds more Ne to me... If you are still a teen, then it is possible that your aux is still forming, and that would add to the confusion. Here's another question, though it may not be the best: How are you at playing with tools. By tools, I mean anything from a musical instrument to sports implements like a tennis racquet or ping pong paddle, to maybe a fishing rod--anything that is used to manipulate other things. Are you good with tools? Do you feel drawn to things that can be played with, like machinery or gadgets with lots of things hanging off of them? or maybe paint brushes or digital tools on computers? Or do you prefer to consider things like words or ideas tools?


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## KevinHeaven (Apr 6, 2015)

ferroequinologist said:


> This part sounds more Ne to me... If you are still a teen, then it is possible that your aux is still forming, and that would add to the confusion. Here's another question, though it may not be the best: How are you at playing with tools. By tools, I mean anything from a musical instrument to sports implements like a tennis racquet or ping pong paddle, to maybe a fishing rod--anything that is used to manipulate other things. Are you good with tools? Do you feel drawn to things that can be played with, like machinery or gadgets with lots of things hanging off of them? or maybe paint brushes or digital tools on computers? Or do you prefer to consider things like words or ideas tools?


Oh yeah I am pretty good with tools. Like I have a good control over musical instruments and painting brushes. Maybe I am still developing. I concluded that I have a really good Se. But I feel comfortable with my Ne. It's like I developed a strong Se even though I prefer Ne if that makes sense.


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## uncertain (May 26, 2012)

KevinInHeaven said:


> Oh yeah I am pretty good with tools. Like I have a good control over musical instruments and painting brushes. Maybe I am still developing. I concluded that I have a really good Se. But I feel comfortable with my Ne. It's like I developed a strong Se even though I prefer Ne if that makes sense.


I guess if you say prefer, then that's the one. I don't know.

I love tools! I am not that confident, though.


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## KevinHeaven (Apr 6, 2015)

uncertain said:


> I guess if you say prefer, then that's the one. I don't know.
> 
> I love tools! I am not that confident, though.


I feel like I switch subconsciously between the two extremes. From extreme Ne to extreme Se. Sometimes it is consciosly like when I draw (Se) and when I write (Ne)


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## reckful (Jun 19, 2012)

In case you've been led to believe that ISFP is a more likely arts-oriented type than INFP, the opposite is actually true. INFP is arguably the single most likely artist type, and ISFP is not a particularly likely artist type. The "ISFP as artist" notion came from David Keirsey, and I think Keirsey had quite a few insightful things to say, but the ISFP=artist thing was probably his biggest mistake

As further described in this post, lots of data, from multiple studies (MBTI and Big Five both), has pretty consistently shown relatively strong correlations between an N preference (and/or the Big Five equivalent) and artistic interests — not to mention various kinds of non-artistic creativity.

Of the 114 professional fine artists in one study shown in the second edition of the MBTI Manual, 91% of them were N's (65% NF and 26% NT). More specifically, 25 were INFP and only one was ISFP. It's pretty common to find internet forumites assuming that, if the relevant art involves _physical materials and tools_ (like painting), it must be "Se" territory rather than "Ne" territory, but as the Manual explained: "Because true creativity in the arts requires highly differentiated use of tools and materials, one might expect artists to prefer sensing perception rather than intuition. Empirically, N types outnumber S types in art students and among artists. The theoretical explanation is that the insights and inspirations provided by intuition are more important, but true artistic skill requires the development of S skills for use in the service of N inspirations."

The official MBTI folks put out Career Reports that show the popularity for each type of "22 broad occupational categories," based on "a sample of more than 92,000 people in 282 jobs who said they were satisfied with their jobs." The sample included 3,230 ISFPs and 4,267 INFPs, so it's a very large sample by personality typology standards.

Here are the "Most Attractive Job Families" (= scores above 60) for ISFPs:

*Health Care Support* [100]
—Nurse's aide, veterinary assistant, pharmacy aide, physical therapy aide
*Architecture and Engineering* [91]
—Architect, surveyor, mechanical engineer, chemical engineer
*Food Preparation and Service* [78]
—Chef, food service manager, bartender, host/hostess
*Office and Administrative Support* [78]
—Bank teller, receptionist, clerical services, legal secretary
*Building and Grounds Maintenance* [75]
—Gardener, tree trimmer, housekeeping, lawn service supervisor
*Transportation and Materials Moving* [66]
—Pilot, air traffic controller, driver, freight handler
*Personal Care and Service* [64]
—Lodging manager, personal trainer, hairdresser, child care provider

In 19th place (out of 22) for the ISFPs (with a job satisfaction score of 30 out of 100) is the category that includes arts, design, entertainment and media:

*Arts, Design, Entertainment, Sports, and Media*
— Artist, coach, musician, reporter

By contrast, here are the "Most Attractive Job Families" for INFPs:

*Arts, Design, Entertainment, Sports, and Media* [100]
—Artist, coach, musician, reporter
*Education, Library Sciences, and Training* [75]
—Schoolteacher, librarian, school administrator, university faculty
*Personal Care and Service* [71]
—Lodging manager, personal trainer, hairdresser, child care provider
*Health Care Support* [69]
—Nurse's aide, veterinary assistant, pharmacy aide, physical therapy aide
*Community and Social Services* [68]
—Community service manager, career counselor, clergy, social worker

If you want to read an "Introduction to S and N" I put together a while back (with quotes from Myers and Keirsey), see the first sub-spoiler in the main spoiler (if that's not too confusing) in this post.

Also see this post (from an MBTI Reference thread by @PaladinX), including the spoiler.

If you've never taken the official "Step I" MBTI, there's a link to that here, and I think it does a pretty good job in the S/N department. If you pretty consistently come out N on MBTI tests, and you get a relatively clear N score on the official MBTI, I'd say the odds that you're an S are pretty low.

And as explained at 9types and personalityjunkie, INFP is a much better match for your Enneagram 4 type.

As an almost-final note: In the first spoiler are membership stats for Personality Cafe and Typology Central. For each type, the first percentage is the percentage of that type at the forum, the second percentage (in parentheses) is the estimated "general population" percentage from the official MBTI folks (from this page), and the final number on the right is the self-selection ratio for that type — i.e., the ratio of the forum percentage to the general population percentage.


* *




November 2014 membership stats for Personality Cafe:

INFJ — 9133 — 15.7% (1.5%) — ssr: 10.5
INTJ — 7307 — 12.6% (2.1%) — ssr: 6.0
INFP — 11865 — 20.4% (4.4%) — ssr: 4.6
INTP — 7825 — 13.5% (3.3%) — ssr: 4.1
ENTP — 3709 — 6.4% (3.2%) — ssr: 2.0
ENTJ — 1681 — 2.9% (1.8%) — ssr: 1.6
ENFJ — 1904 — 3.3% (2.5%) — ssr: 1.3
ENFP — 4915 — 8.5% (8.1%) — ssr: 1.0
ISTP — 1926 — 3.3% (5.4%) — ssr: 0.6
ISFP — 1986 — 3.4% (8.8%) — ssr: 0.4
ISTJ — 2094 — 3.6% (11.6%) — ssr: 0.3
ESTP — 635 — 1.1% (4.3%) — ssr: 0.3
ISFJ — 1374 — 2.4% (13.8%) — ssr: 0.2
ESFP — 620 — 1.1% (8.5%) — ssr: 0.1
ESFJ — 573 — 1.0% (12.3%) — ssr: 0.1
ESTJ — 542 — 0.9% (8.7%) — ssr: 0.1

November 2014 membership stats for Typology Central:

INFJ — 1782 — 16.1% (1.5%) — ssr: 10.7
INTJ — 1437 — 13.0% (2.1%) — ssr: 6.2
INTP — 1958 — 17.7% (3.3%) — ssr: 5.4
INFP — 2016 — 18.2% (4.4%) — ssr: 4.1
ENTP — 781 — 7.0% (3.2%) — ssr: 2.2
ENTJ — 298 — 2.7% (1.8%) — ssr: 1.5
ENFP — 1156 — 10.4% (8.1%) — ssr: 1.3
ENFJ — 321 — 2.9% (2.5%) — ssr: 1.2
ISTP — 304 — 2.7% (5.4%) — ssr: 0.5
ISFP — 256 — 2.3% (8.8%) — ssr: 0.3
ISTJ — 278 — 2.5% (11.6%) — ssr: 0.2
ESTP — 100 — 0.9% (4.3%) — ssr: 0.2
ISFJ — 181 — 1.6% (13.8%) — ssr: 0.1
ESFP — 84 — 0.8% (8.5%) — ssr: 0.1
ESTJ — 74 — 0.7% (8.7%) — ssr: 0.1
ESFJ — 65 — 0.6% (12.3%) — ssr: 0.05


 
As between an average INFP and an average ISFP, it appears that the INFP is something like _10 times more likely_ to end up at an MBTI-related forum than the ISFP. So... the mere fact that you're here starting threads to try to figure out your type is worth one or two INFP-over-ISFP points as far as I'm concerned.

Finally, just in case they're useful to you, I've put roundups of online profiles of INFPs and ISFPs in the last spoiler.


* *




_INFP Profiles_
MBTI Manual (2nd Ed.)
MBTI Manual (3rd Ed.)
Keirsey (Please Understand Me)
Kroeger & Thuesen (Type Talk)
Hirsh & Kummerow (Lifetypes [abridged])
Berens & Nardi
personalitypage: Portrait
personalitypage: Personal Growth
personalitypage: Relationships
personalitypage: Careers

_ISFP Profiles_
MBTI Manual (2nd Ed.)
MBTI Manual (3rd Ed.)
Keirsey (Please Understand Me)
Kroeger & Thuesen (Type Talk)
Hirsh & Kummerow (Lifetypes [abridged])
Berens & Nardi
personalitypage: Portrait
personalitypage: Personal Growth
personalitypage: Relationships
personalitypage: Careers


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## aendern (Dec 28, 2013)

The distinction between intuition and sensing is really hard to mistake once you know what they are.

It's easiest to think of them as attitudes. Sensing is more interested in tangible ideas. Things that are true or real. Things that exist in reality. Things that *are*.

Intuition is more interested in ideas that aren't necessarily true yet--but they _*could be*_ true in the future. Or maybe they'll never be true and they're complete make-believe.

Intuition enjoys thinking of connections between things that aren't readily-apparent and concrete.

Sensing is not interested in this, as it is interested in concrete information. Information that is measurable, visible, practical. Information that exists now. Information that is actually relevant to this very moment. Not relevant to future could-be's or what-if's.

Sensing dominant types quite often fear and find boring intuitive information.

Intuitive dominant types quite often fear and find boring sensing information.

If you're a judging dom (which you think that you are), you may not experience this. What you would find scary/boring would be your opposite judging function.

If you were Fi/Ne/Si, you would feel less comfortable with Si and would seek reassurance from others when dealing with Si information.

If you were Fi/Se/Ni, you would feel less comfortable with Ni and would seek reassurance from others when dealing with Ni information.



reckful said:


> In case you've been led to believe that ISFP is a more likely arts-oriented type than INFP, the opposite is actually true. INFP is arguably the single most likely artist type, and ISFP is not a particularly likely artist type. The "ISFP as artist" notion came from David Keirsey, and I think Keirsey had quite a few insightful things to say, but the ISFP=artist thing was probably his biggest mistake.


I agree with you. I've always thought this, too. ISFP is much more an *artisan *than an *artist*.

Most people do not even like actual art. They scoff at it and say "You call _THAT _art?!" This is such a sensing attitude. They see the object and not what the object means. And they see that the object is weird or simple. And thus worthless.

They are so missing out  Artistry quite requires an intuitive mind.

Most people prefer sensory works. Things that are beautiful and can be easily-understood. Things that don't have obscure, multiple interpretations. Things that have an actual function--such as decorating a wall. Or decorating a body.


If you want a good example of an intuitive artist, definitely check out Björk. Amanda Palmer. Grimes.

If you want a good example of a sensing artist, you could check out nearly every mainstream pop singer. Britney Spears. Lady Gaga. Avril Lavigne. Taylor Swift. The list is so, so long.


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## uncertain (May 26, 2012)

KevinInHeaven said:


> I feel like I switch subconsciously between the two extremes. From extreme Ne to extreme Se. Sometimes it is consciosly like when I draw (Se) and when I write (Ne)


Weird... Se and Ne would have different thought process when it comes to drawing, not sure about writing.


> One of the easiest things that come to me is generating ideas ( for example songs ideas) but I get lazy to start working on them.


This sounds Ne.

Generating ideas is a very hard thing for me to do, typically. I just sit there blank--looking at the blank page is even worse--and I hate how bad I am at it. This makes it really hard for me to be a _great _artist, but I am good at drawing what I see (which doesn't mean it's "realistic") and I enjoy that.

I always found it working better for me if I just dive in and start drawing whatever, but to start is kind of hard, too. If I do some color digitally, I might change the color several times until I see the one that works the best.


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## KevinHeaven (Apr 6, 2015)

reckful said:


> In case you've been led to believe that ISFP is a more likely arts-oriented type than INFP, the opposite is actually true. INFP is arguably the single most likely artist type, and ISFP is not a particularly likely artist type. The "ISFP as artist" notion came from David Keirsey, and I think Keirsey had quite a few insightful things to say, but the ISFP=artist thing was probably his biggest mistake
> 
> As further described in this post, lots of data, from multiple studies (MBTI and Big Five both), has pretty consistently shown relatively strong correlations between an N preference (and/or the Big Five equivalent) and artistic interests — not to mention various kinds of non-artistic creativity.
> 
> ...


You are awesome. 😢 the amount of effort you've put in this post is amazing. Thank you. Yeah I am pretty sure I am INFP right now. I always test as Ne. And it's far from the 50% border. It is more than my introversion percentage. Like I always try to change the test results but I end up changing everything except the N part. Yeah I saw it coming that you would mention my ennegram. Almost every 4w3 is an INFP. I am also pretty sure a lot of artist or celebrities are mistyped as ISFPs because they are either musicians or their image. I will check the links you posted. Again thank you


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## uncertain (May 26, 2012)

emberfly said:


> Most people do not even like actual art. They scoff at it and say "You call _THAT _art?!" This is such a sensing attitude. They see the object and not what the object means. And they see that the object is weird or simple. And thus worthless.


It depends on what you mean by "actual art." 

My father thinks the reason why a lot of artists, including me, don't draw/paint things as realistically as something like the classical style is because they don't have the skill to do so. I always _hate_ that thought and mentality. Like _really_ hate it.


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## Zee Bee (Aug 19, 2014)

*Ultimate test if INFP/ISFP*



KevinInHeaven said:


> Haha I like that. I am not that good at catching balls at all. Well sometimes I do, but sometimes I get scared and try to avoid it.


If you are able to catch an arrow with your teeth - ISFP, or if you would even consider it.

If such an idea makes you feel like a coward - don't worry, you are INFP


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## The_Wanderer (Jun 13, 2013)

mirrorghost said:


> i understand, and come to think of it, i misrepresented the "shades of black" thing that was said. the point is, the attention to extreme physical detail seems to come up a lot with the person i was speaking of. maybe that's not Se though, and if not, pardon me for being mistaken.


Attention to detail is a trait of both sensory types, the difference is whether the outlook is objective (Se) or subjective (Si). Very simplistic example; "that is green" vs "that green is beautiful".


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## reckful (Jun 19, 2012)

The_Wanderer said:


> Attention to detail is a trait of both sensory types, the difference is whether the outlook is objective (Se) or subjective (Si). Very simplistic example; "that is green" vs "that green is beautiful".


Are you suggesting that a typical ISTJ would be more likely to have a "that green is beautiful" reaction than a typical ISFP?


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## The_Wanderer (Jun 13, 2013)

reckful said:


> Are you suggesting that a typical ISTJ would be more likely to have a "that green is beautiful" reaction than a typical ISFP?


No. I'm discussing cognitive functions, not MBTI. Shrug.


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## mirrorghost (Sep 18, 2012)

The_Wanderer said:


> Attention to detail is a trait of both sensory types, the difference is whether the outlook is objective (Se) or subjective (Si). Very simplistic example; "that is green" vs "that green is beautiful".


that makes sense, the Se part anyway. as a tertiary Si user, i don't seem to consciously experience Si that way, but ok.


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## reckful (Jun 19, 2012)

The_Wanderer said:


> No. I'm discussing cognitive functions, not MBTI. Shrug.


Most forumites who discuss "cognitive functions" discuss them within the context of a model that says that ISTJs are Si types and ISFPs are Se types, and this thread centers around the difference between two "MBTI" types (ISFPs and INFPs).

Your profile says you're an ISFP. Do you think that means you're an "Se type" (with Se as your aux)? If not, when you refer to "Se types" (who say, "that is green") and "Si types" (who say, "that green is beautiful"), who are you referring to?


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## SilverRain (May 15, 2014)

I've been circling that issue for a while. Wouldn't an FiSe be as likely as an Si to say "that green is beautiful," making it difficult to tell ISFP from INFP in real life as opposed to looking at functions by themselves?


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## aendern (Dec 28, 2013)

SilverRain said:


> I've been circling that issue for a while. Wouldn't an FiSe be as likely as an Si to say "that green is beautiful," making it difficult to tell ISFP from INFP in real life as opposed to looking at functions by themselves?


Saying that something is beautiful is a value judgement and has nothing do with perception (at least not Jungian perception).


"This is blue" vs "This blue is beautiful" is a Thinking vs Feeling difference.

Te: This is blue
Ti: Is this really blue, though? How do we know what constitutes "blue"? Is my blue the same as your blue? What if it had a tinge of green in it? Would it still count as a blue or would it be some sort of gray-area color? (actually this is more Ti/Ne than vanilla Ti)

Fe: This blue is beautiful. [values asserted as objective facts]
Fi: I love this blue. It's so pretty. I realize not everyone like blue, but I do. Blue is so pretty to me. It's my favourite color.


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## The_Wanderer (Jun 13, 2013)

reckful said:


> Your profile says you're an ISFP. Do you think that means you're an "Se type" (with Se as your aux)?


I was an ESTJ yesterday. An ENFJ a few weeks before that. When I talk of an "Se-type" I usually mean those who have it as a dominant or auxiliary function. Everybody uses Se in some way. 

I rarely see the point between applying Jungian functions to MBTI, I think even you've mentioned before that it doesn't really work together with the MBTI dichotomies. 



reckful said:


> If not, when you refer to "Se types" (who say, "that is green") and "Si types" (who say, "that green is beautiful"), who are you referring to?


I think the emphasis on "very simplistic" was ignored by a few people. "That green is beautiful" is something I'd probably expect to notice from Si-Fe types, what people usually call the xSFJs. Does that mean Se-Fi types wouldn't do it? Nope. They also have a strength when it comes to Si, it's generally in a more subdued state and wouldn't be their primary mode of operation, though.

From Si-Te/Te-Si I think comfort, ease of use and practicality is generally what leads their decision making. 



SilverRain said:


> I've been circling that issue for a while. Wouldn't an FiSe be as likely as an Si to say "that green is beautiful," making it difficult to tell ISFP from INFP in real life as opposed to looking at functions by themselves?


I think it depends to an extent on the individual, but I will say in my experience I haven't really met that many Fi-Se "artists" and aesthetes. If anything, those stereotypes better correlate to Fi-Ne and even Si-Fe.

If you're talking ISFP vs INFP as function groups and not dichotomies. An amusing trait I've noticed is how they communicate with people. ISFPs being more direct and concrete, INFPs are neither, they're particularly evasive in arguments and conflicts.



emberfly said:


> Fi: I love this blue. It's so pretty. I realize not everyone like blue, but I do. Blue is so pretty to me. It's my favourite color.


I wonder what effect Fi being subservient to Ne or Se makes. What do you think? I'm an Ne-Fi type and I sure as hell wouldn't say something like that. I'd actually probably give the Te response; aesthetics aren't much of a concern to me, unless the colour blue made me think of something amusing, I'd rather think about other things I find amusing.
...But that Ti response would annoy me :frustrating:.


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## aendern (Dec 28, 2013)

The_Wanderer said:


> ...But that Ti response would annoy me :frustrating:.


I can't even tell you how much I love that you said that. I find that so funny.


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## jinhong91 (Apr 29, 2014)

emberfly said:


> Saying that something is beautiful is a value judgement and has nothing do with perception (at least not Jungian perception).
> 
> 
> "This is blue" vs "This blue is beautiful" is a Thinking vs Feeling difference.
> ...


I'd say that Ti example is closer to the Ti-Ne combination than Ti-Se. Because of the tertiary Si in the Ti-Ne combo. This blue is different from that other object's blue. A comparison of different sensory impressions.

Ti-Se would be like "Blue is blue." unless when comparing 2 different blue objects directly which would be "This is blue, that is a different shade of blue. Both look blueish."


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## aendern (Dec 28, 2013)

jinhong91 said:


> I'd say that Ti example is closer to the Ti-Ne combination than Ti-Se. Because of the tertiary Si in the Ti-Ne combo. This blue is different from that other object's blue. A comparison of different sensory impressions.
> 
> Ti-Se would be like "Blue is blue." unless when comparing 2 different blue objects directly which would be "This is blue, that is a different shade of blue. Both look blueish."


I will admit that I don't understand the sensing perspective very well, so I am often quite bad at giving sensing examples.

However, I am very good at pinpointing youtubers who are likely sensors.

Here is a man I suspect to be an ISTP type 5.






If I were to put myself in this man's brain and then look at the color blue, I would probably think: "That's blue." and that's that.

Due to my understanding of the way the color blue works in practical uses with other things (blue looks good with other cool tones and with its complementary color(s), but doesn't tend to look good with warm tones that are farther away from its complementary color(s)), I would know how to design a lighting system that looks really beautiful from a technical aspect--based on my in-depth understanding of color and color theory. Although "looks good" is getting into the Fe realm, because now we're interpreting society's value judgments about what is considered good-looking or not.

But value judgments are required to do anything, so it was not possible to avoid that.






This man is an ESTP type 7.

He has a very good understanding of his craft: becoming a drag queen. He knows it inside and out. He knows everything about it. He's very good at doing makeup because he understands from a technical aspect what looks good and what doesn't and when to use powder foundation or creme foundation or whatever.

Willam Belli sees blue and just knows how blue interacts with other colors to make something work. I don't know how else to describe Ti/Se. It's just an innate knowledge of how things work and function together practically. Often times you see these people in trade skills because they become experts at doing practical things like tailoring, doing hair, doing makeup, fixing cars, . . .


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