# MALE ENFP's ARE CRAP AT ATTRACTING WOMEN FOR MORE THAN JUST FRIENDS (ADVICE)



## louea380 (Dec 5, 2010)

After having been snooping on here for a while now i think its time for my second post. 

About me- I'm 21, consider myself a well grounded ENFP, love life, no issues atall apart from the fact that I suck at 'attracting' women!! Don't get me wrong, i'm very good at making friends with women, having fun with women and women seem to enjoy my presence, however this is rarely in a sexual way!

So.... we have a dilemma on our hands!!
On one hand i enjoy being me (fully me) and making a bunch of female friends
But on the other, I want the opportunity to attract women on a sexual level but feel in order to do this i would have to be someone i'm not and hate the thought of putting on a show. 

I know i could go either way but the point is i just want to be me AND attract women sexually but life is never that simple is it? haha. All i want really... is a girlfriend...a decent girl who i connect with on that level....if one night stand opportunities were to reveal themselves on the journey then i wouldn't exactly say no, but there not the main thing.

So what i would like to know is...

1) Do you find yourself being friend zoned a lot? It seems quite a few of my friends do not have a problem with creating the right vibe from the get go, but 'the game' is different for me. I tend to wait for the connection before any serious flirting whereas most non ENFP's don't get this! They think with their dick a lot more. If you are friend zoned, do you have a way of getting round it?

2) How do you personally tackle the dating game as an ENFP? Are you always completely true to yourself? 

3) Do you make an effort to meet loads of new people? and do you have an active social life? I personally don't....but i think i should start as haven't been going out that much lately.

4) CALLING ALL ASPIRING PICK UP ARTISTS- Does it change your personality or is it all an act? and was it worthit? I know an ENFP who said he used to be one but realised it wasn't worth it because he never attracted the right women and all he got was one night stands.

I seem to have a temptation to change a part of myself in order to become more 'attractive' to women but if the general consensus with ENFP's is just be yourself and be patient then i'd rather take this advice and wait until something good comes up. I'v even starting looking at this pick up artist stuff as it has helped a lot of guys, but again i see it as faking false sexual confidence so i don't want to go there.

I would particularly like to hear from MOBY on this 1, as from what i'v read of his posts it seems like he's pretty bang on when it comes to women.

Any feed back would be a massive help!! Cheers


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## viva (Aug 13, 2010)

In my opinion, the best relationships start as friends first.

Make a female friend (which you obviously already know how to do), get to know her, then make a move. Sorry, but I don't know what else to tell you.


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## sts06 (Aug 12, 2010)

I read this out to my ENFP husband and he nodded so hard I thought his head was about to fall off :laughing:

But, in a more serious vein he said he had the same issue all through high school and into his twenties. He's really comfortable to be around and women love him - as friends. However, as you can see he did find someone. I liked his personality and made a concerted effort to get him to notice me as a romantic interest. To be honest I think that was his problem. I'm pretty sure I wasn't the only girl who saw him that way, but I sure was the only one who put in the effort to break through his obliviousness to how I felt about him. He disagrees, but I remember how hard I had to try to get him to see past 'oh, I'm going to this movie with my friend' and move him onto 'this is my girlfriend'

I don't know if this could be part of your issue or not, but I'm sure there will be a girl (or girls) out there who like what they see and want to move on further. For the record, we got together when my ENFP was 24 and have been together for 13 years now.


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## louea380 (Dec 5, 2010)

YYYeeeeeeeeeeesssssssssssssssss!!
This makes me smile :laughing: There is hope then!
I would do exactly the same as your husband. Once i'v tested the waters and decided that the girl doesn't look at me in that way, i would then say to myself "oh well, friends it is then" and would generally not look back unless something really really big hit me.......hard lol. 
Iit would make it a lot easier for us if we could just make our intentions clear from the start, but it just doesn't feel right. I think its because we feel a connection with everybody, so we don't like to push too hard as we fear the rapport could be broken.


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## The Proof (Aug 5, 2009)

I recommend rsdnation.com

this is a personal thing you have to do on your own; when you're through you'll probably realize things are very simple

all you have to do is say hi and tell the girl you like her and that you want to go out; first, you have to actually allow yourself to be attracted to women; society messes people up and separates them from their basic impulses, I suggest you stop resisting them, not immediately, but over time

remember, at some point, you will see things are very simple


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## louea380 (Dec 5, 2010)

Wow!! Nice website i'll check it out.
Although, the problem isn't really not being able to tell a girl i like them, but rather her telling me she only see's me as a friend because that's the impression i'v given off, you feel me?


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## Mandarr (Feb 5, 2011)

My advice, be a man and go for it. If she rejects you move on and try again.


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## dottywine (Feb 7, 2011)

#4 - Well, I can tell you that it has changed my personality for the better. It doesn't so much change my personality (I am still an INTP, even though many people would never guess the I part) -- it just made me UNAFRAID to express my personality more often. And it also makes me unafraid to utilize my strengths-- for example, I'm really good at changing how I treat people depending on the type of person they are (so I listen more to those who love to talk and I am more sweet and teasingly joke to someone who's shy). Its really good. Yes, it is totally worth it. It will change the way you view interacting with other humans, i.e. NO BIG DEAL.

No, its not fake. If you come across as fake, you're doing a poor job. You don't need to use every line in the book... the important thing is that you learn to get over your fear of approaching people and you understand how to draw them in and hold their attention. That's it. Its not fake at all unless you're someone who just wants to have sex with as many people as possible. But you're not. So....


Also, yes, I'm a woman. So I have a slightly different perspective. But looking at the guys in my "inner circle" (the guys that I go on rounds with and wing for), its totally cool. Try it out!!! 

If anything, you will gain confidence you never knew you had. Sometimes you have to fake your confidence until you really own it and this helps you get out of your comfort zone.


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## dottywine (Feb 7, 2011)

The Proof said:


> I recommend rsdnation.com
> 
> this is a personal thing you have to do on your own; when you're through you'll probably realize things are very simple
> 
> ...


Nmmm, I like you.

I like what you said. Allow yourself to be attracted to a woman. I don't know if you're thinking what i"m thinking.

I have this idea that men are big scooby-doo characters. They want a scooby snack. They are simple. They are easy to attract (shiny things, colorful things, ass, boobs, whatever draws attention). And they don't really know what they want.


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## dottywine (Feb 7, 2011)

louea380 said:


> Wow!! Nice website i'll check it out.
> Although, the problem isn't really not being able to tell a girl i like them, but rather her telling me she only see's me as a friend because that's the impression i'v given off, you feel me?


Ok, you're getting friendzoned.

Its because you are too good at making her feel comfortable. Making the girl feel comfortable is important, but you need to maintain a level of sexual tension -- there are subtle/appropriate ways to show a girl you are SEXUALLY interested in her. 

I can't tell you off the top of my head because... I am not interested in those kind of things (I'm a girl. I'm looking for a guy who wants to show me he's interested lol), but there is great advice online.


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## MissyMaroon (Feb 24, 2010)

As an ENFP female, I'd feel uncomfortable if most males I hung out with were attracted to me haha. Flattering, yes, but we appreciate guys like you! I don't know what to say except be yourself and don't be afraid to voice your feelings.

I only wanted to post because it's funny you guys complain about this while it's the very thing I want: to hang out with guys and not have to be afraid they'll come onto me; then I'll have to summon the courage to turn 'em down. No fun for either party, lol.


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## Bunker Man (Jan 4, 2011)

You think you've got it bad? We WISH we could attract people, EVEN as friends. They usually think we're going to kill them.


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## The Proof (Aug 5, 2009)

louea380 said:


> Wow!! Nice website i'll check it out.
> Although, the problem isn't really not being able to tell a girl i like them, but rather her telling me she only see's me as a friend because that's the impression i'v given off, you feel me?


well whose fault is the "impression" you give?

dude, this all really has to do with you and next to nothing with the girl...


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## bigtex1989 (Feb 7, 2011)

Ok man here is the deal. There is NO way out of the friend zone without some sort of cataclysmic event. This can include a terrible breakup, a super stressful situation, etc. This works because you will be there for her and show how great of a boyfriend you can be. Since this rarely happens (and I wouldn't wish it on anybody anyway), it is probably safe to go ahead and assume you're in the friend zone to stay. Hell, from the sound of it, I'd vote you mayor.

The dating game itself is a game of numbers. If you have a 10% success rate (which in reality is quite low unless you are just pretty terrible or only talk to the very hottest girls in the place), and you talk to 10 people, you have 1 number/date/whatever you were trying to get. That being said, picking up a girl isn't so much of an act, as accentuating your good qualities, while diminishing your poor ones. Here are some tips for picking up women:

1. Only compliment a girl on her looks ONCE in the MIDDLE of the conversation. More than that and you seem shallow, creepy, desperate, and uninteresting. All of which you want to avoid like the plague. Also, never say she as a whole is beautiful, gorgeous, etc. Pick ONE feature about her that stands out. A lot of the time I use eyes or smile, just because I notice them the most. Be genuine. It definitely shows.

2. NEVER try to engage a group of women by yourself, unless you're an expert or have some other means of isolating the one you want. Talking to a group is a perfect way to get friend zoned as you no longer seem like a man/mate to the collective. Trust me, it's group think. 

3. Picking up girls is like real-estate. Location, location, location. Since you are looking for girlfriend material, I wouldn't spend most of my time at bars, unless you want a party girl. Not all girls that go to bars are party girls, but you're better off doing things you enjoy and finding girls that are doing those things.

4. The most important part. The approach. Easily the hardest thing to do by far. This is different for every person. I like to size a girl up for a couple minutes. I analyze her every accessory, choice, movement, etc. that I can see. After that I pick what I find most interesting about her and go ask why she does/wears/whatevers that. If she is interested she will try her best to leave it open-ended so I can continue the conversation. If she isn't interested, it is pretty obvious and I cut my losses. If she is in the middle, then I bring up some of my hobbies. Magic can usually seal the deal if you are good. That takes a lot of practice though. This is also the time where you define a future relationship. She will be able to tell here if she wants to sleep with you, be in a relationship with you, be friends with you, or never talk to you again. If you just want to sleep with her, through in some cues like "Let's go get some drinks" or "It's uncomfortable out here for whatever reason. We should get indoors. Do you live close by?". If you want a relationship, ask her out on a date. Maybe dinner. Some place quiet so you guys can actually talk about deeper things. If you want to be friends....well you seem to be pretty good at that.

5. Last tip, leave her wanting more. If the conversation is going well, just get up and leave after a bit. MAYBE give her a number or something to contact you, but at this point when you start to get up, she will probably give you hers without you having to ask. Then, and here is the tough part, repeat the process with many different girls at the same place if possible. Occasionally look at her, maybe smile and wink, whatever you want. This is where most guys go wrong. They start talking to a girl, it's going great so they want to continue it as long as possible. This puts you in the friend zone post haste.

As far as my social life goes, I wouldn't say it's overly active. I usually have lots of homework, so I can't go out as much as I'd like to, but it's cool. 

NEVER change your personality. Girls somehow have this radar for personalities. If you try to act, they will know pretty quickly. You'll give a ton a cues that you're confused about who you are, and start seeming desperate. 

By being genuine and using the above tips, you'll be a Casanova in no time.

As an ENFP, you can read people well and know whats happening. You got this in the bag. You're already good at the hardest part.

Last thing, smelling nice is a GREAT way to attract ladies in a sexual nature. If you have a lot of female friends, bring them along for cologne shopping. Take their input. Never underestimate the power of smell. If you are reasonably attractive/clean looking, then smell is EASILY the most important thing you can do at this point to really help your chances.

From the mind of BigTex, the ENTP


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## louea380 (Dec 5, 2010)

dottywine said:


> #4 - Well, I can tell you that it has changed my personality for the better. It doesn't so much change my personality (I am still an INTP, even though many people would never guess the I part) -- it just made me UNAFRAID to express my personality more often. And it also makes me unafraid to utilize my strengths-- for example, I'm really good at changing how I treat people depending on the type of person they are (so I listen more to those who love to talk and I am more sweet and teasingly joke to someone who's shy). Its really good. Yes, it is totally worth it. It will change the way you view interacting with other humans, i.e. NO BIG DEAL.
> 
> No, its not fake. If you come across as fake, you're doing a poor job. You don't need to use every line in the book... the important thing is that you learn to get over your fear of approaching people and you understand how to draw them in and hold their attention. That's it. Its not fake at all unless you're someone who just wants to have sex with as many people as possible. But you're not. So....
> 
> ...


Lol, i'v never heard of a female pick up artist!! Good advice though, i know there's a lot of debate into whether the pua thing is just a false persona! But it sounds like it can do wonders for your whole life and not just your dating life.


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## louea380 (Dec 5, 2010)

MissyMaroon said:


> As an ENFP female, I'd feel uncomfortable if most males I hung out with were attracted to me haha. Flattering, yes, but we appreciate guys like you! I don't know what to say except be yourself and don't be afraid to voice your feelings.
> 
> I only wanted to post because it's funny you guys complain about this while it's the very thing I want: to hang out with guys and not have to be afraid they'll come onto me; then I'll have to summon the courage to turn 'em down. No fun for either party, lol.


There might be more guys attracted to you than you think!



The Proof said:


> well whose fault is the "impression" you give?
> 
> dude, this all really has to do with you and next to nothing with the girl...


Yer, absolutely! That's why i made this thread.


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## louea380 (Dec 5, 2010)

bigtex1989 said:


> Ok man here is the deal. There is NO way out of the friend zone without some sort of cataclysmic event. This can include a terrible breakup, a super stressful situation, etc. This works because you will be there for her and show how great of a boyfriend you can be. Since this rarely happens (and I wouldn't wish it on anybody anyway), it is probably safe to go ahead and assume you're in the friend zone to stay. Hell, from the sound of it, I'd vote you mayor.
> 
> The dating game itself is a game of numbers. If you have a 10% success rate (which in reality is quite low unless you are just pretty terrible or only talk to the very hottest girls in the place), and you talk to 10 people, you have 1 number/date/whatever you were trying to get. That being said, picking up a girl isn't so much of an act, as accentuating your good qualities, while diminishing your poor ones. Here are some tips for picking up women:
> 
> ...


This is gold!! It sounds like I need to be framing the interaction that way and practising a lot.Although, it still seems like a daunting task for someone who's so used to giving off a friendly rather than sexual vibe. If your not used to it you don't suddenly become that person and hence you come off as creepy. Whats the trick then? Just practice?


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## Third Engine (Dec 28, 2009)

The fake it until you make it is actually a valid psychological concept. I believe it's called self awareness theory (I should know this since I have a test on it tomorrow, lol), but basically what it says is that attitudes generally don't change your behavior, but your behavior generally changes your attitudes. For example, if you started talking to girls and managed to get at least one to like you, then you might think "hey, I must be doing something right!" and so your situational confidence builds.

This is a pretty good talk too. It's more about building confidence in yourself rather than using "techniques", if you will


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## bigtex1989 (Feb 7, 2011)

louea380 said:


> This is gold!! It sounds like I need to be framing the interaction that way and practising a lot.Although, it still seems like a daunting task for someone who's so used to giving off a friendly rather than sexual vibe. If your not used to it you don't suddenly become that person and hence you come off as creepy. Whats the trick then? Just practice?



A bit of practice might help (as practice helps with anything). Some things to consider when desperately wanting a sexual vibe:

1. Initiate contact. Touch her leg while talking if it is open. Kind of the upper thigh area but still pretty far from the crouch. Remember if it's under the table, this COULD turn out badly but who knows?

2. Create seductive patterns. Whisper things in her ear instead of talking to her. Look around like you are going to tell her a secret. Use a hand motion for her to lean in, and whisper something that isn't creepy. This can only be done once in awhile. That one is kind of advanced and takes a lot of practice. That can easily go from seductive to creepy in less than a second. If her hair is in her face, brush it out and say something like "you don't want to cover that pretty face" (also note that this doesn't count as a compliment oddly enough.) This tip is a "take what you're given" kind of thing. Just think about what Fabio would do in that situation, tone it down a couple notches to make it believable and go for it. 

3. Don't look deep into her eyes for very long. This can not only make NF types kind of lost for words if she has pretty eyes, but kind of puts a vibe down that you are looking for her soul. That doesn't work with MOST girls. Look at her when you talk obviously, but pick something else on her face to look at. I like the mouth of a nose piercing, or something like that.

4. If you are kind of lacking in confidence, make her talk to you rather than the other way around. If you are sitting somewhere, you get up and tell her "I noticed you as you walked in. You must like (something you observed she likes based on clothing or whatever). That's kind of weird. I'm sitting over there if you want to join me." That worked for me nearly every time when I was a bit less confident. It sets up the perfect vibe as long as you call what she likes weird. She gets intrigued in your moxie and originality, which is right where you want her.


The main thing is, as you try with more and more girls, you'll discover what works, what doesn't, and you'll be able to refine yourself. Like I said before, as an ENFP, you already won half the battle.


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## louea380 (Dec 5, 2010)

Funny you should mention the thing about NF eye contact. Women do wierd things with deep eye contact, its kind of amusing but i know i shouldn't do it lol. Sounds like i should start sprinkling some ENFP awesomeness around and see what happens.


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