# INFP-Enneagram 4- How can I change my type?! >;/



## la_di_da (May 28, 2014)

Yo.

I am new as of today.
As an INFP, just as I like to reassure others, I like to be reassured that: "Yes, this will get better." 
INFP symptoms  ...I'm trying to research how to change your type
-romantic obsession
-intense fear of abandonment
-self-sabotage
-codependent
-emotional anorexia
-eating disorder
-anxiety
-feeling down
-feeling better than everyone
-feeling flawed, broken, unwanted
-perfectionism
-chronic disappointment at everyone, everything & myself
-lonely
-obsessions & compulsions
-child of a dysfunctional family I still live with

*sigh* I often feel like I cannot express myself so I'm unloading because I read fellows with the same stuff as me on this site.


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## chicklit (Feb 28, 2014)

Welcome!

The things you mentioned aren't some quirky INFP "symptoms". Eating disorder and anxiety have absolutely nothing to do with your Myers Briggs type, they're mental health issues. Trying to "change your type" won't work and won't help.

Anyway, hope you have a nice time here. :kitteh:


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## LibertyPrime (Dec 17, 2010)

la_di_da said:


> Yo.
> 
> I am new as of today.
> As an INFP, just as I like to reassure others, I like to be reassured that: "Yes, this will get better."
> ...


o.o you can't change how you process information by default...sry. however some of the stuff you listed are just problems you are facing and not INFP traits. A lot of INFPs or people who think they are INFP have and continue to struggle with a lot of these issues. I know I did and I thought I was INFP type 4 in the beginning.

-romantic obsession <== not part of being INFP
-intense fear of abandonment <== not part of being INFP
-self-sabotage <== not part of being INFP
-codependent <== not part of being INFP
-emotional anorexia <== not part of being INFP
-eating disorder <== not part of being INFP
-anxiety <== not part of being INFP
-feeling down <== not part of being INFP
-feeling better than everyone <== not part of being INFP
-feeling flawed, broken, unwanted <== not part of being INFP, its probably type 4 stuff
-perfectionism
-chronic disappointment at everyone, everything & myself <== not part of being INFP
-lonely <== not part of being INFP
-obsessions & compulsions <== not part of being INFP
-child of a dysfunctional family I still live with <== this explains a LOT.

*^^ welcome to PerC, a place to discover and help yourself.*


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## Draki (Apr 4, 2014)

Well, you cannot change your type. But I don't think you would want to do it anyway.
Every type has weaknesses and strengths. I'd say find them out and grow 
I'm sure you'll find like-minded people here!
Good luck on your journey


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## ElliCat (May 4, 2014)

First of all, welcome from a fellow INFP 4!

I'll echo the sentiment that you can't change your type, HOWEVER you can still grow and heal and it can get better. I'll bold what I have struggled with in the past, and underline what I still struggle with now:

*-romantic obsession*
*-intense fear of abandonment*
*-self-sabotage*
*-codependent*
-emotional anorexia
-eating disorder
-anxiety
-feeling down
*-feeling better than everyone*
*-feeling flawed, broken, unwanted*
-perfectionism
*-chronic disappointment at everyone, everything & myself*
*-lonely*
*-obsessions & compulsions*
-child of a dysfunctional family I still live with

(By the way, the last explains SO much! It's no wonder you're not thriving in a toxic environment. One type-related thing (although not restricted to just one type) is that we are SO sensitive. I struggled with it for years and let people tell me it was a weakness. It wasn't until I learned to embrace it and reject negative environments that I became emotionally stronger. But it's not always easy to escape.)

Is it possible to get professional help? Some things I beat on my own, but I found cognitive behavioural therapy (CBT) really helpful for my anxiety, which is also feeds into my low moods. Even if you can't, there are resources online which might help in the meantime. Really digging deep into my psyche was also helpful - I hope you can have a similar experience here.


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## Knight of Ender (Mar 30, 2014)

Your type only changes over time, through different experiences and several decades. But you should get help for your 'symptoms'.


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## la_di_da (May 28, 2014)

Knight of Ender said:


> Your type only changes over time, through different experiences and several decades. But you should get help for your 'symptoms'.





ElliCat said:


> First of all, welcome from a fellow INFP 4!
> 
> I'll echo the sentiment that you can't change your type, HOWEVER you can still grow and heal and it can get better. I'll bold what I have struggled with in the past, and underline what I still struggle with now:
> 
> ...



Hi guys, thanks for the replies. And it's nice to know another INFP 4. @ElliCat 
Right now am in a bad (worse) state because of anxiety about wanting to take lots summer classes and stress anticipating the future move to Spain in August (to try to get away from my dad/mom/ex/self). I'm financially dependent on my dad and I have a million things I think I should be doing/learning. (He doesn't appreciate any of them.)

I have gone through a slew of therapists and I'm too sensitive and codependent to keep up the therapist-patient relationship, and I have tried support groups but I am tired. On the outside, I seem like I have what it takes to be successful and happy but I am floundering. Just graduated magna cum laude, double major from a prestigious university last year, smart, multilingual, athletic (was), volunteer, creative, great resume. *BUT* I feel like I can't do anything that I need to/should, like I can't keep up with a job, and I don't know what I want & I get too lonely which is when I get down and engage in the eating disorder and become incredibly depressed about my breakup with my up-and-down, unstable ex, break-up Feb 2013, who caused worse trauma and led to the eating disorder. That's why I'm moving to Spain to live with my paternal family and try to feed off of their stability that does not exist here for me in CA. I don't want to come back. I may look into a therapist when I get there.
:frustrating:
*Actually crying right now because I am actually feeling what I don't want to feel and it's hard.*
Thanks.


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## FX (Sep 30, 2013)

Hello, @la_di_da. I've nothing to say that hasn't already been said, but I wish you the best of luck. Welcome to PerC - I hope you enjoy your stay.


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## surgery (Apr 16, 2010)

la_di_da said:


> Hi guys, thanks for the replies. And it's nice to know another INFP 4. @_ElliCat_
> Right now am in a bad (worse) state because of anxiety about wanting to take lots summer classes and stress anticipating the future move to Spain in August (to try to get away from my dad/mom/ex/self). I'm financially dependent on my dad and I have a million things I think I should be doing/learning. (He doesn't appreciate any of them.)
> 
> I have gone through a slew of therapists and I'm too sensitive and codependent to keep up the therapist-patient relationship, and I have tried support groups but I am tired. On the outside, I seem like I have what it takes to be successful and happy but I am floundering. Just graduated magna cum laude, double major from a prestigious university last year, smart, multilingual, athletic (was), volunteer, creative, great resume. *BUT* I feel like I can't do anything that I need to/should, like I can't keep up with a job, and I don't know what I want & I get too lonely which is when I get down and engage in the eating disorder and become incredibly depressed about my breakup with my up-and-down, unstable ex, break-up Feb 2013, who caused worse trauma and led to the eating disorder. That's why I'm moving to Spain to live with my paternal family and try to feed off of their stability that does not exist here for me in CA. I don't want to come back. I may look into a therapist when I get there.
> ...



Welcome to the forums. 

I empathize with you. Trying to find a job is stressful. I think what is perhaps even more stressful is sort of knowing that you have to commit to something that you may not truly love…for, basically, the rest of your life. The way I see it, the fact that you have to rely on a career in order to sustain yourself, without all it's robotic expectations and seemingly trivial activities can easily make one feel like there's no room to "be oneself" or to act spontaneously anymore. Also, whenever I think about (most) career options, I always feel like I'm being boxed into an activity that, on one hand, may have some positive benefit, but never really gets to the heart of the human condition. It leaves me to wonder: Why is the world like this? What's the point of it all? Is there really no better way for society/the world to function?

That's how I feel, at least. I don't want to project my emotions on you, so it would be helpful to know more details about why you feel you can't "keep up with a job."

Also, when you say you get lonely, do you mean that you experience the desire to be around people more often or do you just feel like no one understands you? I think there's a meaningful difference.


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## OldManRivers (Mar 22, 2012)

I am reminded of the final meeting of Dorothy and her crew with the wizard of Oz. Each were told is essence that they had the traits they sought -the lion had courage, the tin man had a heart, and the straw man had wisdom - Gee - I may have that all mixed up! Anyway, if you are concerned about the enneagram type being a cause of your distress, you can change it by simply saying so. Or, you can take the test over and over, experimenting with your responses until it comes out the way you want it to. It is not reality in any event, no evidence whatsoever that is valid, and there is a lot of role playing connected with it. So define your own role -

Get some counseling, learn who you are, and forget about what type tag is hung on you. You were born with the right of self-determination. Do it!
Best of luck to you!


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## Xenograft (Jul 1, 2013)

la_di_da said:


> Yo.
> 
> I am new as of today.
> As an INFP, just as I like to reassure others, I like to be reassured that: "Yes, this will get better."
> ...


I will write you a list because that may be easier for you to deal with, but first I must make sure that you understand that the progression of an Fi dom is completely singular to one's own experience and environment. No two humans are alike, and Fi, being a personal function only, will never act or react the same way to the same stimulants or events within two different sets of variables. Too many uncontrolled data structures, you see, so your own experience and path to health and growth will be similar in structure, but not in content, to other INFPs or ISFPs. I want to be clear that a lot of what you have here are not aspects of being an INFP, or aspects of being any type, but facets of the human condition and natural imperfection. Do not ascribe these to MBTI, they are not the same thing, MBTI only explains reactions and processes to these facets of the human condition.

To address each point that you have mentioned:



*Romantic obsession*: this is a struggle that many humans experience and that is not purely singular to an NF type, especially not an INFP. We must recognise that INFPs will seek deep connection with other humans if they are healthy, but it is common for INFPs to mistype themselves as INTPs or even xSTJs because they experience negative repercussions when they try to force a connection with someone who is either incompatible, disinterested, or not quite yet ready for that sort of relationship. What you must realise is that there is a great divide between love and romance, they are not the same thing. Love comes from acceptance of yourself and your futility in life, as well as your control over your own ego. Love also comes from connection between your fellow humans. Something that you must accept is that love and romance will never find you unless you stop searching for them and, instead you must focus on improving the self and readying yourself for ego death, as this is a key part of reaching inner tranquility. In short, accept flux, search for love within the universe and within yourself rather than in others, and understand that love will find you when you least expect it.
*Intense fear of abandonment*: again, something I have also struggled with. This has as much to with a lack of self love as it has to do with how you were raised and what your current life status is. I cannot tell you that escaping this fear will be easy, I have yet to reach a point in my psyche at which I cannot fear abandonment. I imagine that you will not achieve this until you have experienced ego construction and ego death. My advice to you would be to, again, rather than focusing on other humans and what they can give to you in terms of comfort, focus on yourself and find what you must do to give yourself comfort.
*Self sabotage*: rather than fearing being too open or too closed around people, avoid simply dumping all the facets of your personality and your life on them, instead of working in order to make yourself seem less or more, try to make yourself seem like yourself. Fi desires authenticity of self and of others, so let your Fi take over and practice not overthinking. I imagine me telling you to simply "try to do things" in order to assuage stress instigators and internal pain is frustrating, but bear with me, I realise that it is not as simple as doing this one thing, it is far more complex than that. Let life's waves take you where they do, you will find your answers there.
*Emotional anorexia*: I do not completely understand this one, do you intentionally starve yourself from receiving the emotions of others? Or do you simply mean that you avoid and neglect your own emotions in order to try to find clarity and purpose? I want it to be clear that you will find your answers if you follow your natural inclinations, I make a point to surrender myself to my emotions, be it intense sorrow and desolation or elating jubilation and contentedness. All of your emotions are important and will lead you to greater self understanding and actualisation.
*Eating disorder*: I do not feel qualified to discuss this.
*Anxiety*: something I cannot help you with. Will I offend you if I ask if you have seen a specialist of sorts about this?
*Depression*: a process, you will escape this over time, but it is hard to get over while you are experiencing this. If you would ever like to speak in detail about repeated sorrow is like, I would gladly engage you in a discussion of my own experience with sudden and gripping sensations of hopelessness and moroseness.
*Arrogance*: something I have been putting some thought into recently. I wonder if when an INFP gains confidence in the wrong way, when they think that in order to feel better and comfortable with themselves they must project Te rage, they take on a state of holier-than-thou rather than a state of contentedness. So, for me, a key part of learning to love the self is accepting that faults are not merely faults, but strengths to be honed and to make you fuller. Your inabilities and ineptitudes are only aspects of your personality and your brain that you either were never meant to focus on, or are parts of you that still need to be improved. It is good to tell yourself that you are worthy, that you are beautiful (you are), that you are important, but it is also important to realise that being important does not mean that the world will give you what you want and that you are entitled. It means that you are a member of our species and that you share the same weight as any other human. 1=1.
*Feeling broken*: a very common occurrence amongst Fi doms, it seems, this will fade away when you start to accept and develop your true ego, and will completely dissipate (I hope) when you experience ego death and let go of your corporeal roots to the world. Part of the beauty of being an INFP is that you are susceptible to all the good and bad in the world, and that, if you choose, you can experience and shoulder the burdens of humanity and the greater good, and that in doing so you are given an incredible understanding of the folly and pursuits of man. I, among many, will tell you that, no, you are not broken, you are different. Yet, even in this certainty, I still experience this fear of being destructive and faulty. It will pass, all will pass. Pure flux, remember that.
*Perfectionism*: not a negative quality alone, this is OK to embrace. Try to use it sparingly, though, as overuse of Te and Si, functions that are inferior in your preferred stack, will only lead to headache and loss of energy. Perfectionism and an inclination towards making sure that the pursuits that mean a great deal to you are both incredibly valuable qualities of INFPs, but it is hard to make sure that this doesn't affect your life entirely. Remember that only you determine what is important to you, remember that your values are what matter to you and that you do not need to feel obligated to complete all tasks with absolute perfection if they are not important to you. Fight the system, don't overuse your limited energy, and pursue what matters to you, not what matters to others.
*Chronic disappointment*: see previous sections, this is covered by other points that others have made and that I have made.
*Lonely*: this will pass, you will find yourself, you will get through this. I promise you. It may suck, it may burn and hurt and destroy you from the inside, you may be consumed by the blazing fires of fear and hatred, but know that you will rise from the ashes of whatever you lose a stronger and more complete human. Something must always give.
*Impulsiveness*: pursuing vices in the face of stress is common, since you get scared and cannot find solace within the comfort and words of others. Sometimes it is OK to indulge yourself in things that might not be always healthy, because it is healthy in other ways. It is OK to give into the desires that you have, you are only human, you will never fully escape these desires, but try not to overdo it. If the world ever loses colour, if you feel as though you lose direction, if you stop gaining from indulging, then you will know that you must stop and change directions.
*Unfit and destructive state of living situation*: you know what you must do. If escaping your situation is the only way to happiness, you must discard your fears and pursue whatever you must in order to ensure that you escape the danger and destructive environment that you inhabit currently. Things to consider: "no pain, no gain," sometimes bridges must be burned to the ground in order to keep going, "it is always darkest before the dawn."

I want to make it very clear that you *cannot "change" your type*, you are who you are and you are better off accepting your faults and whatever follies you have the plague you than you would be trying desperately to make yourself into something or someone that you are not. I don't know if anything that I have given you is helpful, but they are my stances on these problems that you are facing in life. My last bit of advice for you is that you must heed Heraclitus' words, his doctrine of pure flux. There are only two certainties in life, my kin, and they are _*death *_and *change*. 

I wish you a good day, I hope this has helped you understand more, and I hope you feel comforted. If not, then I am unsure what else I can tell you, please ask more questions if you have any.


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## ElectricHead (Jun 3, 2011)

I know, right? Why is being an INFP type 4 so damn hard? I can't say that I have the same problems as you do except for a few, but there are others that make me feel just as broken. Wish I could help, but how could I when we hardly know you? Maybe someone will reveal the most enlightening truth that illuminates the answers for us, but until then, I can only say what I've come to realize.
Ignore your evil twin, tell them they're wrong until they become your friend. Sadness is comfortable and safe, despite the hurt, but it's insane. I will stop before I become to self absorbed with my own problems...


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## Solba (Feb 19, 2013)

Welcome to PerC! 

I have to agree with the others here that MBTI type does *not* change, and that it would be better to focus on resolving the individual issues themselves rather than falling into the trap of thinking, "I have this problem because I'm an (insert type here), and there's nothing I can do about it." I'm not sure what the extent of your knowledge on typology is, so I'll try to provide some information I think could be helpful for you.

There are some threads on this website about function loops - a debated concept, but it makes sense to me. For INFPs, this would be relying too heavily on the introverted functions (Fi and Si) which, in sum, seems to take the form of being mentally "stuck" in past experiences with negative associated emotions. This is a result of the extroverted functions not being utilized enough, in which case I would suggest learning more about and consciously making an effort to use Ne and Te. 

You also might want to learn about enneagram integration. In your case, type four will develop positive traits of type one when in a "growth" state. 

I also advise looking up the INFP personal growth page on personalitypage.com (I'm not able to post the link here). 

I'm not an INFP, so I don't think I can share my experiences with the items on your list in a way that is helpful or relatable to you, nor do I have experience with all of them. 
I hope learning about your strengths and weaknesses will help you improve your mental health.

Enjoy your stay!


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## ponderinggalaxies (May 28, 2014)

Hello La_di_da, 
Changing your type is not impossible in my opinion, however it's very rare or unlikely occurance. (I mean it-Very very rare occurance.) These thing's you've listed are not things I would necessarily connect to being INFP, instead would say things that are occurring from having a home life that-(from the vibe I'm getting) is less than grand or homey! Do not try and change your type, we're all beautiful individuals. Recall even if life is rather hard and sometimes the whole picture is so overwhelming try and not forget these beautiful things called baby steps. Chose one thing on this list you've written, then work on it. Man never gets very far when he's looking at an ocean of work, (especially my observations INFP's). Be very careful not to overwhelm yourself, or get caught up on the negatives. I wish you well, my apologies if this reply got long.


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## blue.epifania (May 26, 2014)

Why wouldn't you wanna be an INFP, they're so awesome! They have the weirdest, most fun thoughts and if you get close enough you get to actually hear them! Also, the whole shy appearance is super cute I think 

Anyway, welcome, I'm new too!


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## Doll (Sep 6, 2012)

Welcome to the forum! And omg, why do you want to change your type??? We fours are the coolest beings ever to grace this planet.  You should come over to the enneagram forum and explooore.


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## Himistu (May 24, 2014)

I'm inclined to say your type can change (and, as I read the boards, I see every other probable INTP agrees with me, LOL). Technically, you can - the types are only generic descriptions that no one matches perfectly. I go back and forth between the different personality types all the time. There are some things about you that you can't change, like how you brain is designed to process information. Of course, you can change that too - just drink alot and do whatever you can to kill your brain cells. I also find it hard to change what my mind focuses on, but I've read that can be changed with meditation. hm...
I would say changing your type is a question of how comfortable you are with the change, and it is my assumption since many people aren't comfortable with the change, they never do.

Anyways, I do agree with FreeBeer. Those symptoms are not particular to your type. They are very human and I experience them daily along with the other ups and downs.

If you really want to change your type, do something contrary too it. It will grain against your nature (and feel very uncomfortable), but after awhile, you'll become accustomed to it, and even if you don't enjoy that particular activity, you'll have changed to a more determined type, maybe something closer to ENTJ/ESTP.


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## Knight of Ender (Mar 30, 2014)

One thing I noticed about myself is that I'm never truly happy unless I know I'm helping someone. Knowing that I have improved someone's outlook/perception really makes my day. Maybe trying something like that will help.


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## doineed1 (May 25, 2014)

How is it going? Well aside from the all that.

My name is a.b. and I am a intj 8 who can't write to safe his life... 

In other words if aliens came down to have a death match spelling bee over the fate of the univers.. I am not going to be helping anyone. 

Nice to meet you.


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## la_di_da (May 28, 2014)

@FPx Thanks for the lemurs!



blue.epifania said:


> Why wouldn't you wanna be an INFP, they're so awesome! They have the weirdest, most fun thoughts and if you get close enough you get to actually hear them! Also, the whole shy appearance is super cute I think
> 
> Anyway, welcome, I'm new too!





surgery said:


> I empathize with you. Trying to find a job is stressful. I think what is perhaps even more stressful is sort of knowing that you have to commit to something that you may not truly love…for, basically, the rest of your life. The way I see it, the fact that you have to rely on a career in order to sustain yourself, without all it's robotic expectations and seemingly trivial activities can easily make one feel like there's no room to "be oneself" or to act spontaneously anymore. Also, whenever I think about (most) career options, I always feel like I'm being boxed into an activity that, on one hand, may have some positive benefit, but never really gets to the heart of the human condition. It leaves me to wonder: Why is the world like this? What's the point of it all? Is there really no better way for society/the world to function?
> 
> That's how I feel, at least. I don't want to project my emotions on you, so it would be helpful to know more details about why you feel you can't "keep up with a job."
> 
> Also, when you say you get lonely, do you mean that you experience the desire to be around people more often or do you just feel like no one understands you? I think there's a meaningful difference.


Yes, I am terribly afraid of being boxed up in pointless work. I have had internships at corporate offices where I felt like a small ant & it made me so stressed to be there, doing work of no importance, forced to try to connect with my supervisors I worked right next to (..social anxiety I guess... I hate feeling like I have to entertain others). I also made a lot of embarrassing totally idiotic mistakes bc I was nervous & not present. That makes me more scared of a job. I don't think I will be good at tolerating waking up early in the morning, dull commuting, staying in my office seat for 8-9 hours, come home, sleep and do it again. If it was up to me, I'd be a perpetual student because I love learning. After my 2 Bachelors, I am now studying art but I want to take and master *everything* even when it's not practical: art history, drawing, painting, photography, graphic design, video editing, mixed media, performance art, and there are always new interests cropping up. However, my university majors were in International Business & French and I don't know what kind of career now.

@surgery Your question about the loneliness made me wonder all day today. I want to connect and be around people with whom I can connect; sometimes even a small connection is fine! It *is* hard often feeling misunderstood though, and I will think of this difference. *Ultimately, I isolate myself.* Just this month I realized am compulsively a workaholic._ Took a while! _My demanding dad always wanted me busy & obligated summer school every year since I was in 3rd grade; I don't know what relaxation means._ ("Do something productive. Do something productive." Do something productive.")_ I get anxious thinking of not having a packed schedule. Right now I am supposed to be taking a year off: take it easy, art, & de-stress/detox from college (I don't mean drugs). But I pack my schedule with work, throw on extra classes, and obligations so I never have time for myself & no time to socialize either. Then I wonder why I am overextended & lonely, but it gives me such a fear to not be busy & productive (esp with the eating disorder). I usually wait for others to invite me to do things because I am the busy one but it's not working. Plus, when you're lonely, you're lonely whether alone or with others. 



ponderinggalaxies said:


> Hello La_di_da,
> These thing's you've listed are not things I would necessarily connect to being INFP, instead would say things that are occurring from having a home life that-(from the vibe I'm getting) is less than grand or homey!
> 
> Chose one thing on this list you've written, then work on it. Man never gets very far when he's looking at an ocean of work, (especially my observations INFP's). Be very careful not to overwhelm yourself, or get caught up on the negatives. I wish you well, my apologies if this reply got long.


LOL thanks!


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## la_di_da (May 28, 2014)

*Thanks, @Stationary*



OldManRivers said:


> I am reminded of the final meeting of Dorothy and her crew with the wizard of Oz. Each were told is essence that they had the traits they sought -the lion had courage, the tin man had a heart, and the straw man had wisdom - Gee - I may have that all mixed up! Anyway, if you are concerned about the enneagram type being a cause of your distress, you can change it by simply saying so. Or, you can take the test over and over, experimenting with your responses until it comes out the way you want it to. It is not reality in any event, no evidence whatsoever that is valid, and there is a lot of role playing connected with it. So define your own role -
> 
> Get some counseling, learn who you are, and forget about what type tag is hung on you. You were born with the right of self-determination. Do it!
> Best of luck to you!


Yes, I had a classmate of around the same age as me start up a discuss about his therapy that cured him of some big issues including romances. (He started on this subject himself.) 3 years really helped him though he is more easy-going, forgiving than I am so it was likely easier. I will try to be more open to it & investigate the place he told me about for therapists in training. That could take the edge off for me making it more casual. Hopefully.



Stationary said:


> I will write you a list because that may be easier for you to deal with, but first I must make sure that you understand that the progression of an Fi dom is completely singular to one's own experience and environment. No two humans are alike, and Fi, being a personal function only, will never act or react the same way to the same stimulants or events within two different sets of variables. Too many uncontrolled data structures, you see, so your own experience and path to health and growth will be similar in structure, but not in content, to other INFPs or ISFPs. I want to be clear that a lot of what you have here are not aspects of being an INFP, or aspects of being any type, but facets of the human condition and natural imperfection. Do not ascribe these to MBTI, they are not the same thing, MBTI only explains reactions and processes to these facets of the human condition.
> 
> To address each point that you have mentioned:
> 
> ...


 @Stationary Many, many thanks for the writing. The ideas that life in flux (Heraclitus) & change is so pivotal though so scaryyyy! I do try to take control of anything I can coming from a place where I had such a helplessness as a kiddy. 
By emotional anorexia, I mean "the compulsive avoidance of giving or receiving social, sexual, or emotional nourishment."

You talk about ego death. Could you explain that to me a little more? I would like it to go away. :happy: And true ego? Thank you for the warm, caring words. I am trying to turn down the volume *upstairs* and this helps. Thank you! Especially important is not feeling like I have to be someone other than myself, which is related to the self-sabotage. I get nervous though and it's worse connecting with others bc my parents are so reclusive (with no jobs they have to go to work for) & my dad criticizes me whenever I socialize-- _those are not good people out past 10pm, waste of time, bad influences._ I hear: --> _you are not good, you are a waste of time, you are bad._ He's never even met them. For a reason. Anyway... 

Thanks for the relating, people!


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## caramel_choctop (Sep 20, 2010)

@la_di_da: As most people have said, you either can't change your type at all, or it takes long years to do so, and a lot of the problems you've listed aren't type-related but are quite common human reactions & behaviours. That said, I'm sure that as you explore PerC you'll find out more about yourself. 

I hope you manage, or have managed, to get professional treatment for your eating disorder and sort out your other problems. I can relate to the social anxiety and isolating myself aspect of it, and it's a hard cycle to break out of, but the only one who can truly decide to do something about it is you. It's an ever-changing process, this learning how to be alive! 

If you'd like, feel free to start a thread in our "What's my personality type?" (MBTI) and "What's my Enneagram type?" subforums.


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## la_di_da (May 28, 2014)

caramel_choctop said:


> @la_di_da: It's an ever-changing process, this learning how to be alive!
> 
> If you'd like, feel free to start a thread in our "What's my personality type?" (MBTI) and "What's my Enneagram type?" subforums.


Yes, living is hard some times. :ninja:

How would I do that-- make an Enneagram forum under a random subject listed above? New at this. Thanks for reaching out. Forums seem safe esp when everyone drawn to talk about these things likely relates. :happy:


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## ElliCat (May 4, 2014)

la_di_da said:


> How would I do that-- make an Enneagram forum under a random subject listed above? New at this. Thanks for reaching out. Forums seem safe esp when everyone drawn to talk about these things likely relates. :happy:


Here's the What's My Type? subforum: What's my personality type?

Or if you're sure about INFP and E4:

4's live here: Type 4 Forum - The Individualist

INFP's live here: INFP Forum - The Idealists


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## surgery (Apr 16, 2010)

la_di_da said:


> @_FPx_ Thanks for the lemurs!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I am curious….do you know your father's type? He sounds like he's probably quite different from you, but at the same time expects you (and probably other people to be like him). I think that's one of the worst things about society/humans. 

Americans are notoriously "busy". It's part of our culture, largely because of the way we constructed ethical values around capitalism. Back in the late 16th/early 17th century, a type of Christian theology (Calvinisim) spread throughout Europe that basically taught that there was only a certain number of people could get into heaven. Thus, in order to be a "good Christian" one had confidently believe that one's spot in heaven was already secured. Thus, as a result of this "confidence" it was expected that people would adopt a vibrant, zealous attitude towards work. One intellectual, Maxwell Weber, coined this way of thinking as the "protestant work ethic". 

This kind of thinking became a corner stone for much of Protestant Christian attitudes that began taking political influence as people began to question the existing Catholic-backed monarchies, particularly in England. Likewise in the late 18th century/early 19th century, innovations in industry made it easier to produce crops and other goods, which meant that people had more time and money to consume luxury goods. This was the birth of industrial capitalism.

These ideas eventually reached the colonies in the Americas and heavily influenced our culture in a myriad of ways throughout each generation. Nowadays, everything around us is basically a result of industrial capitalism, so much so that people can scarily imagine life without it. Innovating (often only to produce "useless" crap), commodifying and working in order to buy and sell what seem like necessities as well as gain status is what dictates our lives and our self of what's important. 

To be honest, I think some personality types are just better at adapting to this lifestyle. In my observations, people who are very extraverted, especially if they have a Thinking function, tend not to find many faults with our current society and can't understand why someone wouldn't be. As an INFP, I've often been accused (or accused myself of) being moody, depressing, lazy, flaky, etc. because I could never seem to enjoy a life of constantly moving from one situation to one situation without being able to pause and ask "why am I doing this? is it really worth it?" Moreover, those thoughts are considered shameful because people assume that constantly being busy is the only way to survive. Obviously, it's not though. People live contended lives in what we consider poverty. 

For these reasons, I try now not to let consumerism and financial competition define my identity. But, that's difficult to do when you're born into a system and don't have enough knowledge to question it.

I've always heard that Europeans tend to want to "work to live, not live to work." Obviously, most Western European countries have a lot of wealth because of their capitalist enterprises, but I hope you find some solace while you're taking your time off. 

I think it's interesting how you love learning, but often feel the pressure to do something more "practical". I used to think like this too. But when you actually think about it, a ton of wealth in the world doesn't come from practical things. Look at Lady Gaga, he music isn't practical but she's worth millions. THis is probably because her art speaks to people who are so desperately ready for something that isn't practical at all, but rather makes them feel like life can be fun and romantic. Also, the cosmetics and plastic surgery industries are hugely lucrative, but we don't really need them. They are almost completely built on our insecurities though, whereas if people paid more attention to different cultures, history, and fine arts, they might realize that meaning doesn't come from being a perfect housewife or businessman who lives in a mansion and drives a fancy car that slowly drains the earth of its limited resources…Happiness is an emotion that largely results as a result of not feeling the need to overly control things…to be content with how things are and just "be yourself."
To me, it seems like you're probably already aware of this. But, you've grown up in an environment that doesn't see this and are expected to conform to it. If I were you, I would probably want to leave that environment, but I honestly don't think that's the best solution. Rather, I think your dad is the one that may need help. I think talking to him, maybe trying to understand his worldview, his life experiences and then maybe providing alternate perspectives might actually be rewarding.


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## Classic (Feb 2, 2014)

Just start doing what other types do. If you get good at it long enough, you'll be a hybrid which is just as good.


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## Bear987 (May 13, 2012)




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## la_di_da (May 28, 2014)

surgery said:


> I am curious….do you know your father's type? He sounds like he's probably quite different from you, but at the same time expects you (and probably other people to be like him). I think that's one of the worst things about society/humans.
> 
> Americans are notoriously "busy". It's part of our culture, largely because of the way we constructed ethical values around capitalism. Back in the late 16th/early 17th century, a type of Christian theology (Calvinisim) spread throughout Europe that basically taught that there was only a certain number of people could get into heaven. Thus, in order to be a "good Christian" one had confidently believe that one's spot in heaven was already secured. Thus, as a result of this "confidence" it was expected that people would adopt a vibrant, zealous attitude towards work. One intellectual, Maxwell Weber, coined this way of thinking as the "protestant work ethic".
> 
> ...


Dear @surgery,

I love it! What you say is very interesting and, yes, Europeans seem to work to live, especially the French and I'd say Spanish fit into this as well. I hope I will be able to relate in the Spanish lifestyle. They sit eating talking for hours from one meal to the next, whereas I am used to be alone and not so many people. My family is disjointed here and not like that.

My family raised me Protestant Christian (different from their own upbringing) and I like the admirable moral values and the focus on personal inspection and spirituality, yet I feel there has been an overemphasis on good/bad, wrong/right, guilt, stiffness, modesty, productiveness. Like, always do something productive/holy: reading/prayer/confessing/thinking of God. Yet, my dad is from Spain and he usually chills out and was a full-time dad and main parent (mostly retired) while I had an absentee religious mother. However, the way he deals with me is emphasizing the outward appearance to others, performance, prestige, even when our home life was in shambles. Yes, his MTBII is something WAY different from mine; he'd be introvert, rational, judging, strict adherence to tradition, maintaining the status quo-- the complete opposite of my Enneagram 4 "The Individualist/Romantic." And I know living in LA is a rat-race and fast-paced especially in the competitive, materialistic schools I've attended, and that has contributed.

I prefer that capitalism is not so strong in Spain but I do appreciate the accessibility in L.A. There is more social, family support and solidarity there. I am not used to that. Hope it will be fine. (Actually really scares me!) Where do you live and how does it work for you & being an INFP?

Yes, the "impractical" things in life are often the most sacred and treasured like you said with music and beauty. I love contemporary performance art and installations. (No monetary value at all ha!) My dad is so practical and financially savvy. I am like: money is useless, vain! (Till I need something and have to ask him for it.) I will get to the point where I get into the workplace... I emailed the therapy center today and will probably go the 2.5 months before I move. What is your work, if you don't mind me asking? Do you like it?


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

@la_di_da

WELCOME! I cannot add anything to the discussion that has not already been said, other than I'm glad you are here, and I'm sure we can be of help as you reach and grow!


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## surgery (Apr 16, 2010)

la_di_da said:


> Dear @_surgery_,
> 
> I love it! What you say is very interesting and, yes, Europeans seem to work to live, especially the French and I'd say Spanish fit into this as well. I hope I will be able to relate in the Spanish lifestyle. They sit eating talking for hours from one meal to the next, whereas I am used to be alone and not so many people. My family is disjointed here and not like that.
> 
> ...


Glad you found that information interesting.

Your dad sounds like he might be ISTJ, just going off of stereotypes lol

I am university student in Ohio. I grew up in a predominately white, Christian, affluent suburb. While my life wasn't hard or difficult, I always had trouble fitting in . I am biracial and I realized I was gay at an early age. I think as an INFP, I let those things define my identity in a way that I think someone of the same time wouldn't. INFP's dominant cognitive function is Introverted Feeling (abbreviated Fi). Fi is a "rational" or "judgment" function, meaning that it "makes sense" of information, rather than just gathering information. Feeling functions specifically evaluate information for it's worth, based on who it affects people or whether it's good/bad, right/wrong, important/unimportant, etc. When Feeling is Introverted, it references subjective/personal experience, rather than things that exist in the external world. 

I think this is why Fi-doms can be know to be empathetic but also self-absorbed. We experience empathy, then Fi leads us to decide that empathy is the right way to conduct human relations. We consider how things make us feel, how it would make others feel and prioritize emotional happiness over material order (which is more an expression of Extraverted Thinking). For a long time, I didn't really fit in because I was always a bit unconventional. I was more feminine than the other boys, and totally uncompetitive about grades. I didn't see the point of like gender roles, traditions, caring too much about money, etc. Just treat other people nice, right?

But then I realized outside of the bubble I lived in, the world was not so nice. My eyes opened to issues like human trafficking, poverty, religious conflict and inequality towards women and other minorities, and also that fact that not everyone is considered attractive or worth loving, which seems trivial but isn't to me. It kind of became an obsession that caused me a lot of grief, but also became my passion to solve these things.

I considered working as a translator for the CIA or the US Defense department or Interpol because I am very interested in Asian languages. I am constantly brain storming ways that I can try to improve the world, but ultimately I realized that all the world's problems are so interconnected that you can't really "solve" just one of them. Also, I was really offended by the idea of capitalism--like, everyone should compete for resources instead of being able to share them equally. I didn't want capitalism to be the only way that people could leave poverty. But, I struggled to find any alternatives, especially when I looked towards religion (basically all the major world religions) and consistently found a lot of things in them that I thought were immoral and unacceptable.

I am a Comparative Religion major now. In one of my courses I learned about how Europe colonized the entire African continent and many different parts of Asia and basically all of Northern America. Obviously, I knew early Americans had slaves and had fought a lot of wars with Natives, but I never knew the full extent to which they totally desolated the people/cultures/economic and social systems of these regions. It really opened my eyes. I was no longer ashamed of my Black heritage, as I had been for so long. 

As far as a career goes, I am interested in initially teaching English abroad, particularly in South Korea or China. After that I'd like to own my own gym in India. I am transitioning into veganism, but I strongly believe that it's a healthier more environmentally sustainable life style that isn't too farfetched for Indian sensibilities (since they have a long tradition of vegetarianism). Likewise, I want to own a gym because I think people are faaaar more motivated by sex/sexuality than they care to admit. Thus, in order to improve the lives of "straight" and LGBTQ people all over the world, I want to convince people to come into an awareness of how their health and their sex lives directly impacts every other aspect about the quality of their lives.

I've sort of accepted that I'll never be able to "beat" capitalism. But, I also realized that earning capital isn't really a bad thing. A lot of good has come out of industrial capitalism, most notably public education, massively increased agricultural yields, and access to information and clean water. I want to focus on utilizing these aspects of capitalism to benefit people rather than just assuming that everyone has to have a 9 to 5 job in an office and that money is the only think matters and that our lives are meaningless consumerism ugh.


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## tiredsighs (Aug 31, 2011)

Instead of becoming a different type, why not focus on becoming a healthier version of your type? The things you listed sound more unhealthy 4ish. Focus more on your mental health, and less on your enneagram type.


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## perfectcircle (Jan 5, 2011)

Everyone here starts seeing everything in terms of type after awhile. And people who start often want to fit everything about themselves into type. The reason you tested as infp is because you answered the Qs that way. The label is generic and really doesn't cover that many facets. Once you get into cog functions people make it even more complicated. yes, types are different and they show general differences between people.. different types brains look different. However, people's types can change. I don't think cognitive functions are truly areas in the brain that are set, and I doubt we really use them in the specific order that people describe, or that they literally exist like they're parts of the anatomy or brain pathways. Brains are very dynamic and plastic and they DO change, science proves that. Furthermore, brain scans show people of the same MBTI type often show very different brains, having different brain areas developed than eachother or some more than others, or it all working together differently & responding to diff stimuli. People of the same type are more likely to have similar brains than people of different types but they are still unique individuals, and people of the same type may be very different than eachother... The letters basically try to generalize it all down but it's far more complicated than that. It is best not to take type as a self-fulfilling prophecy, and not to label yourself.

People here say you can't change your type, but you can. I don't think it happens by setting out to change this random amount of letters, especially if you get a lot into typing and make it your identity, because you won't be able to see past it anymore and will start "acting" like your type. It changes naturally through living. But instead of focusing on changing your type more just focus on being happy, living, and you'll change in the process. But your "type" doesn't really say any of those things about you you think it does. They're right on that. So it doesn't really matter if it changes.

Only buy into enneagram or mbti it helps you possibly find a healthier way of looking at things. Don't take it so literally you say "I can only be a 4 this is my range of motion".. it is meant to liberate you, not box you in. Enneagram and mbti are not scientific they take things that are real, a mix of psychology and a mix of and a mix of philosophy and a mix of mysticism/hoodoo voodoo and give it to ya. Many people here will see type as objectively real and that's their prerogative but if it is unhealthy for you I think it is best to see past it.


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## g_w (Apr 16, 2013)

@la_di_da -- welcome aboard from an INTJ 5w4 armored unit. 
Try poking around the Enneagram 4 sub-forum and the INFP sub-forum, you'll find lots of friendly advice here. :happy:


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## la_di_da (May 28, 2014)

surgery said:


> Glad you found that information interesting.
> 
> Your dad sounds like he might be ISTJ, just going off of stereotypes lol
> 
> ...



Hi @surgery,

ISTJ says "duty fulfiller." Yes, that may be him but an atypical one. Interesting about INFP as empathetic yet self-absorbed. I grew up with two "foreign" parents in a community that sounds like yours and I think that adds to the outsider feeling. Thank you for adding the Q in LGBTQ for people (like me) who don't have a sexual orientation and/or see gender as a social construct. 

Ohio seems like a nice place for traditional values and down-to-earth people except prob not for thinking outside the box. I like Midwesterners though. Hopefully the school is alright doing Comparative Religion. The gym idea sounds rad! Asia has so infinite possibilities for business. It's really shocking. My good friend lives in Hong Kong and says they don't have all-natural or organic face products. Major market to get to. And the gym is good because it *is* helping people! Making a positive impact. What is it about health and sex life that you want to share? I would like to hear it please. Also, how do you as INFP manage your sex life? Oh and I wanted to become a real estate agent and then investor (like my dad) in an attempt to help people while making use of the capitalist, materialist agenda, but I kind of would like to have co-workers in a traditional job. I think it would be lonely being self-employed for your whole life.

It's interesting that you like languages as well. Is that an Introvert thing? I also used to want to be a translator for the UN but then I realized the United Nations isn't a white angel and it crushed me lol; I can relate to you! I once considered CIA but I don't believe in the group think/ control/ personal invasion by government... How are we expected to survive on earth with this sort of sensitivity! Ay, ay, ay!  ...I may also teach English in Spain and/or France myself.

Last fall, I took a Francophone Afrique class (French-speaking Africa) and by reading the literature and studying the history, we learned how the French invaded the tribal ways and implanted their religion, education system, clothes, put the Africans to work, inserted consumer goods, alcohol and the like. I was also surprised at the level they warped the natives. Same thing Spaniards did to Mexico. I'm half Mexican and that's a side for which I've experienced a lot of prejudice too. Going to the native history museum in Mexico this spring showed me about that culture and had a similar effect as you described.

Thanks!


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