# What does it feel like to be an Si-dom or Ni-dom?



## ponder (Dec 7, 2013)

How would you describe what it 'feels like' to be an introvert with a leading perception dominant?

When you retreat to your inner world (like all introverts tend to do), what exactly are you doing?

As a heavy Ti-user it seems simple enough to explain to other people. My inner world is like a sterilized machine in which I logically examine whatever's on my mind. IxFPs are different in that they are constantly refining their values and experiencing inner emotional states. However, both are constantly evaluating internally, it's just the tool that differs.

But what is it like to retreat to inner...perception? Ji-doms are constantly judging things internally, but Pi-doms just perceive something inside of them? I have a difficult time understanding this, and if anyone could explain that'd be great.


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## Aeriner (Jan 17, 2013)

Ni dominance is a daily journey. I wake up, naturally. Then as the day progresses a boredom kicks in that almost compels my mind to travel to some distant place--a project perhaps, character or plot ideas for a written work I've been crafting; I have two novels in my head at all times. The only release or the insatiable imagination is to write and write often, anywhere. I carry a journal with me and just sit and watch people, writing down the story of their moments--one day their simple minute story can be shared with next generations. I ponder Neptune excessively and Triton-how the two could function as a forward base for a singular human civilization; with successful achievement of world peace, humankind could be unified in transcendent ways so that the vast wealth of collective knowledge can be pooled into one over-arching legacy of the species: taking our place among the stars. When you stop and ponder origins, all human beings were/are/will be essentially born of the stars (cosmic matter: hydrogen, carbons, etc.). It is only natural that we return to our metaphysical place of birth in the beautiful mystery of beyond. Human beings are beautiful creatures: our minds, bodies and hearts; each life is a perfected microcosm that adds another layer to the wonders of macrocosmic existence--no matter who or what or why they are. Your life is beautiful, as mine is also, and everyone's everywhere.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

I think your entire idea is flawed in the first place with the assertion that we retreat to some kind of inner world. I don't have one, for one. I do have a sense of self-perception of how I am like inside, but that's unrelated from a sense of moving into myself or something. I don't do that and I don't understand that logic. My perception is simply what leads me to see things in a specific light. It's not something that turns on and off like going from one room and then entering another. Instead, I stand in both rooms and I see both rooms from the lens of introverted perception. 



> Pi-doms just perceive something inside of them?


It's not inside myself. I don't know where people get these ideas from when it comes to introversion to be honest. I never understood this sense of self-perception of seeing inside oneself. 

It's more that I project my personal visions onto the environment that are subjective in character like my own perception of myself, that I tend to see my own mentality and world as a wasteland or a black hole, all dusk, dark and charcoal. It's empty with no life in sight simply sucking things into myself, never letting anything out. Only recently have I felt this begun to change, that all this deadness is coming back to life, that which was burnt and dead gives life to something new. 

That's what Pi does.


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## Kathy Kane (Dec 3, 2013)

The things I have experienced and read move through my mind and I focus on the aspects that give me the strongest impressions. I will read things and then reflect on them to gather intuitive data. Sometimes the same conversations or passages go on repeat until I flush out the intangibles like the meanings, motives, or reasoning behind them. I can reach the heart of whatever it is that's bothering me with enough time. And I will run through my perceptions to improve upon things. 

I also engage in my imagination, creativity, and the meaning of my dreams. I've had dreams that have given me the pieces of information I needed for understanding a problem. And they've given me new ideas and filled plot holes in my writing. Plus, they are usually really interesting so they can stay on my mind for a while after I wake up.


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## Laxgort (Apr 12, 2014)

I really don't understand what do you want to know. I want to say... If you wanna know about how Ni-dom Se-inferior works, I understand it. If you wanna know _what_ does Ni works, I understand you, but... What we feel in our inner world? Be an perceiving-dom doesn't mean I feel something inside me or whatever. Anyway, Pi-doms judge things internally, too. Think about we have two J-functions, as auxiliar and terciary. The difference between be an P-dom or a J-dom is that in if I begin walking I notice patterns in the flowerpots and maybe you be thinking about Ti-things.


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## Kathy Kane (Dec 3, 2013)

Introverts definitely do have a huge amount of inner stimulation. There have been studies on the subject. 

Here's a great article that has a lot of information: The Science of What Makes an Introvert and an Extrovert

I'm interested to see if accepting Si doms will join in and give their comments.


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## Tranquility (Dec 16, 2013)

ephemereality said:


> I think your entire idea is flawed in the first place with the assertion that we retreat to some kind of inner world. I don't have one, for one. I do have a sense of self-perception of how I am like inside, but that's unrelated from a sense of moving into myself or something. I don't do that and I don't understand that logic. My perception is simply what leads me to see things in a specific light. It's not something that turns on and off like going from one room and then entering another. Instead, I stand in both rooms and I see both rooms from the lens of introverted perception.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Technically, it oriented internally. Introversion is an inward turning of libido, towards the subject. It's like your inner self is a wall, and the outer world is throwing stuff at it. Pi only sees the stuff that sticks to the wall (as it is facing the wall), while Pe sees everything being thrown at the wall (as it is facing away from it). Projection is only observed after initial abstraction.

Essentially, from what I understand, Pi is a sort of certainty of perception; Ni is certainty of instinct (I know what I feel, and it is right), while Si is a certainty of observation (I know what I saw, and it is right). As it is oriented towards only the things that stick to the wall, this is what it sees, filtering out all the other 'unnecessary' things. Pi is impressionistic; if something makes an impact on the subject, it will notice it. If not, it is ignored.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

EthereaEthos said:


> Technically, it oriented internally. Introversion is an inward turning of libido, towards the subject. It's like your inner self is a wall, and the outer world is throwing stuff at it.


Yes, but that's not what the OP meant. It's a reference to an experiential sense of retreating into oneself as a conscious act, or somehow separating oneself from the outside world. I don't understand or relate to that experience as I have never to my knowledge, experienced or done such a thing. I'm quite sure an extrovert can experience this too. If anything, I might argue it's related to Ti-Fe in some way.


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## To_august (Oct 13, 2013)

It's difficult to describe. Si-dom inner world, hmm... Probably it's common, but it feels like a big multilayered infinite and timeless mass of thoughts, impressions, concepts, ideas, images, interconnections, memories etc etc etc. It definitely has some inner consistency, but it doesn't resemble highly organised storage of sensory experiences, as some Si descriptions state, at all. I cannot think of a physical object analogy for this, they all have their limitations and inner self doesn't feel like being encompassed.
I also don't feel that I retreat into inner world. I can retreat physically when outer world becomes uncomfortably demanding or overwhelming, but mentally it's not me who hides inside. It resembles more as if I try to limit, push away outer influences or turn their volume down.


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## piscesfish (Nov 30, 2013)

As a Ni dom, I live in my own head. I always have something to think about, be it what we'll be doing in my 4th period class or how I should really get around to finishing that list or that I should challenge myself to be more forgiving of others' mistakes. I also have little worlds with little people living in them who I've given names and backgrounds and hair colors, and when I've nothing to do I imagine them again and think of a chapter in a book I could write about them that I'll never do because I suck at fiction.

Many tangents, but controlled tangents. We're not like Ne with the ability to think of anything at all at any given moment. All of my side-thoughts have to do with the big picture that I'm controlling (which makes sense, really, since Ni-doms have a J preference). If I'm working on a math problem, my intuition will start jumping onto the nearest possible solution and run with it. If I'm telling myself to brainstorm everything I know about how my Ni functions, I'll grab onto the nearest thought and go with that.

My adventures are completely in my head. Little things make me happy, because I can perceive them as something bigger and more meaningful than they really are. Likewise, I can easily skew perceptions of things. I can be very over-dramatic for a short period of time until my Ni regains the upper hand and sees the situation from another angle (I doubt this happens as much with INTJs). I believe this is my warning to you that I'm making my dominant function seem far too grandiose, and I apologize for that 

Interesting side-note about living in my own head: I am extremely sensitive to external distractions. I go on red alert whenever I perceive something is threatening my inner atmosphere. If many people are talking in the background and I'm having trouble focusing, I zone out. My mental paradise can be punctuated abruptly by bouts of itches. I believe this is a very Ni-Se thing, which I hope is relevant to you (which it should be, because if you're Ni-dom, you're Se-inferior, so they're very interconnected).

*IN SUMMARY:* My experience with Ni-dom is, above all, finding serenity in a quiet mental chaos. So much goes on at once, yet I far prefer this rapid-fire information to any external environment. I live in my ideas and my own internal dialogue, and it provides so much stimulation for me that clearly it's my most natural retreat.


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## Tranquility (Dec 16, 2013)

ephemereality said:


> Yes, but that's not what the OP meant. It's a reference to an experiential sense of retreating into oneself as a conscious act, or somehow separating oneself from the outside world. I don't understand or relate to that experience as I have never to my knowledge, experienced or done such a thing. I'm quite sure an extrovert can experience this too. If anything, I might argue it's related to Ti-Fe in some way.


You've never felt detached from reality? Out of synch? Or are you saying you cannot do this consciously?


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

EthereaEthos said:


> You've never felt detached from reality? Out of synch? Or are you saying you cannot do this consciously?


Uh, I don't feel detached in the sense of being stuck in my head or such, no, or that I'm retreating in my own mind or whatever. I don't understand people who say stuff like "I live in my own head". I don't really daydream either, by the way. See, it's stuff like this I don't fucking get:



> My adventures are completely in my head.


WTF does this even mean? To me, reality is just something that's there, that I operate in. I happened to live in it. Reality itself is more like a mirror full with hidden meaning and depth where things are never quite what you think they are. I tend to think that looks are deceiving and one shouldn't judge the book by its cover. What tangibly exists is merely a veil or a cover of the actual reality which exists but cannot be physically or literally perceived. That's why I think I like bands such as Scar Symmetry for example. I'm thinking of songs like Veil of Illusions, Dreaming 24/7, The Eleventh Sphere, Underneath the Surface, Slaves to the Subliminal, you get the drift.


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## Tranquility (Dec 16, 2013)

ephemereality said:


> Uh, I don't feel detached in the sense of being stuck in my head or such, no, or that I'm retreating in my own mind or whatever. I don't understand people who say stuff like "I live in my own head". I don't really daydream either, by the way. See, it's stuff like this I don't fucking get:
> 
> 
> 
> WTF does this even mean?


That they indulge in fantasies, playing through scenes and 'movies' of sorts in their head. My assumption is it is related to Ne to fantasize in this sort of way… Hmm. How strong is your introversion preference? Is your Ni very differentiated?


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

EthereaEthos said:


> That they indulge in fantasies, playing through scenes and 'movies' of sorts in their head. My assumption is it is related to Ne to fantasize in this sort of way… Hmm. How strong is your introversion preference? Is your Ni very differentiated?


Yes, I would say so. I'm more on the NiFi spectrum than I am Te in a way. Also see my updated post.


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## Tranquility (Dec 16, 2013)

ephemereality said:


> Yes, I would say so. I'm more on the NiFi spectrum than I am Te in a way. Also see my updated post.


It actually sounds like your Se influence is very strong. To me, at least. What is your experience with your inferior?


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## Aeriner (Jan 17, 2013)

Ephemereality,

Experience with Ni is subjective. My experience is not yours. The variation in Ni experience is influenced by other factors: Fe and Ti for me, or Te and Fi for you (Se is shared). Introverted thinking is what allows me to "move into myself" more than you, perhaps. Neither experience is wrong and it is this subtle deviation of experience that distinctly separates INFJs from our INTJ counterparts. Human beings are unique in that way no matter our type. Our perspectives make this shared human narrative distinct in that we each contribute a portion of our dynamic minds into this lived experience. Yours is greatly influenced by Te and admire that. It allows you to have a realism that pulls your imagination into this rational world in a logical fashion. Hence the differentiation between our Ni experiences. Rock to the purest, friend.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

EthereaEthos said:


> It actually sounds like your Se influence is very strong. To me, at least. What is your experience with your inferior?


That it has gotten better since I got more psychologically healthy. I don't think it has anything to do with Se though since my girlfriend is an ESFP and she daydreams etc. I don't think daydreaming and such has anything to do with intuition or introversion. I barely notice the world around me to be honest. I can get weird sensations that things suddenly tangibly exist and that they are real. Usually happens when I'm around my cats but can happen with other objects as well. With also tends to come a fear that this realness makes it possible to lose the material and the tangible because it suddenly starts to mean something more than what it is. Before, I don't know how to make sense of it even. It was more just there but I didn't really notice it. It's a little like the feeling of lost and found. It's only when you lose something that you realize it was there and it was actually important to you. 

I really don't know how else it manifests aside that I'm a very indulgent person, especially when it comes to physical pleasure. I love food, sleep, getting a good sense of rush from action etc. The craving for action i know is Se-related because I lose sight of what is really going on and what consequences actions have. All I can think of is how I need the stimulation right now and how good it feels. 

I'm also bad at noticing details around me like typos, stains etc and even if I may unconsciously notice I don't really pay it much attention. I'm a super ultra slob among other things and I'm also very bad at overall body maintenance. 

There is probably more because I don't pay any attention to Se usually, I think that's why it took time to see it, but the only thing I think is relevant in this context is that I have experienced the world as kind of dead for a long time now. It's full of intangible experience that we can't directly observe but these things are not alive. They are lacking in vivid color. It's kind of like something being being ethereal or transparent compared to something solid and of actual color. I feel out of touch with that, the ability to feel that which is tangibly real and alive. It's not really much that I have been consciously aware of though; just more a craving to experience something more and greater. I want to be able to feel some kind of fullness, to experience for real.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Aeriner said:


> Ephemereality,
> 
> Experience with Ni is subjective. My experience is not yours. The variation in Ni experience is influenced by other factors: Fe and Ti for me, or Te and Fi for you (Se is shared). Introverted thinking is what allows me to "move into myself" more than you, perhaps. Neither experience is wrong and it is this subtle deviation of experience that distinctly separates INFJs from our INTJ counterparts. Human beings are unique in that way no matter our type. Our perspectives make this shared human narrative distinct in that we each contribute a portion of our dynamic minds into this lived experience. Yours is greatly influenced by Te and admire that. It allows you to have a realism that pulls your imagination into this rational world in a logical fashion. Hence the differentiation between our Ni experiences. Rock to the purest, friend.


I never judged you for it. I'm just saying that I don't know wtf it means because I have never experienced such a thing which makes it very difficult for me to even understand the op, and I question whether it is meaningful to attribute this to introversion. Jung would for example consider daydreaming unrelated to cognitive functions.

I want to clarify also that I don't think daydreaming and Ni relate in that direct sense either so if someone thinks Ni is a part of their daydreaming that's fine with me. I just don't personally understand because this is a particular thing I am simply not prone of doing and it makes zero sense to me. 

I have an idea what is meant by playing "movies" in your mind; I for example think of how it's literally manifested in Scrubs the TV series. But do I do this? No. I don't understand when people say they live in their own head. I mean I used to feel very bodily detached before and I suppose I still do in the sense that to me the body is just there. I even tend to speak of it as if it's some object unrelated to myself as a subject. But it doesn't mean that I feel stuck in my head or something, or that I retreat into my own world somehow. 

That's all I am saying.


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## Tranquility (Dec 16, 2013)

ephemereality said:


> That it has gotten better since I got more psychologically healthy. I don't think it has anything to do with Se though since my girlfriend is an ESFP and she daydreams etc. I don't think daydreaming and such has anything to do with intuition or introversion. I barely notice the world around me to be honest. I can get weird sensations that things suddenly tangibly exist and that they are real. Usually happens when I'm around my cats but can happen with other objects as well. With also tends to come a fear that this realness makes it possible to lose the material and the tangible because it suddenly starts to mean something more than what it is. Before, I don't know how to make sense of it even. It was more just there but I didn't really notice it. It's a little like the feeling of lost and found. It's only when you lose something that you realize it was there and it was actually important to you.
> 
> I really don't know how else it manifests aside that I'm a very indulgent person, especially when it comes to physical pleasure. I love food, sleep, getting a good sense of rush from action etc. The craving for action i know is Se-related because I lose sight of what is really going on and what consequences actions have. All I can think of is how I need the stimulation right now and how good it feels.
> 
> ...


Good to note there is no connection.
Hmm, so the inferior manifests less sporadically than I imagined, and more as a consistent character flaw. Makes sense. With my Fe, I am socially inept, with no natural grace or tact whatsoever. I tend to see negativity everywhere in others, thinking they hate me or talk badly behind my back. However, I also have an uncontrollable empathic tie to others, even strangers. Is this inferior Fe?


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## Kathy Kane (Dec 3, 2013)

EthereaEthos said:


> It actually sounds like your Se influence is very strong. To me, at least. What is your experience with your inferior?


Your post made me realize I was looking at something the wrong way. It's clear to me now. Thanks.


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## Tranquility (Dec 16, 2013)

Kathy Kane said:


> Your post made me realize I was looking at something the wrong way. It's clear to me now. Thanks.


What were you looking at?


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

EthereaEthos said:


> Good to note there is no connection.
> Hmm, so the inferior manifests less sporadically than I imagined, and more as a consistent character flaw. Makes sense. With my Fe, I am socially inept, with no natural grace or tact whatsoever. I tend to see negativity everywhere in others, thinking they hate me or talk badly behind my back. However, I also have an uncontrollable empathic tie to others, even strangers. Is this inferior Fe?


In a differentiated individual it should be so. If one sees the dominant - inferior axis as two sides of the same coin and you can only see one side at a time, as long as only one side is flipped the other will always be known in its absence rather than presence.

And it could be inferior Fe idk. I have little understanding of how Ti doms see their Fe because it's usually not something they speak of. My overall impression is a sense of feeling outside the social world and feeling disconnected from a greater emotional experience, to feel unity and a sense of spiritual merge. They crave it but can't create it on their own.


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## surgery (Apr 16, 2010)

In Psychological Types, Jung gives the example of an Introverted Sensation type who, when experiencing a bout of giddiness, will be arrested by the sensation, "perceiving all it's qualities, it's intensity, it's transience, the nature of it's origin and disappearance in their every detail, without raising the small inquiry concerning the nature of the thing which produced the disturbance, or advancing anything as to its content." Dario Nardi's EEG research indicates that Si-doms show the most brain activity when they are activity recalling details and form new neural pathways through memorization. Thus, the most active parts of their brains are the parts that relate to what they do--job, hobby, etc; their brains are built for specialization, I guess one could say. This information isn't terribly dissimilar from the definition on CongitiveType.com, which suggest that as an Introverted Perception process, Si doesn't perceive the external world itself. Rather, it stores and perceives subjective, reactive sensations to concepts that Ne absorbs from the external world. Additionally, Si will channel through that stored sensory material based on how the individual subjectively associate it, as if each "memory" was a specific data point in a huge matrix. Only occasionally do Si-doms use Ne to "toggle" this store house of information to come up with "creative" ideas. 

Jung describes how Ni types, experiencing a similar bout of giddiness, will be enraptured by a kind of "image" that arises from their unconscious in response to the stimulation. Instead of focusing on the sensory aspect, they deemphasize that and become aware of all the archetypal meanings of that "image", what why it occurred and how the image "plays out" over time. In response to the feelings of giddiness, Jung gives the example of the Ni-type suddenly seeing an image of a man who was pierced by an arrow and about to topple over . Apparently, this "image" somehow signifies the "true" meaning of the event. Dario Nardi talks about how Ni-doms, when prompted with a novel question or asked to envision the future, tend to go into a "zen-like" state where all the regions of their brains are uniformly working at a low-energy activity level. It's suggested that Ni types also benefit from being able to focus on one question at a time and using a physical object to help them focusing (like concentrating on a specific point on a wall, I guess). This seems interestingly similar to what CognitiveType.com says that because Se and Ni. Since Se is interested in the sensuous intensity of objects, it tends to have a concentrated stare as it perceives as much tangible information as it can before becoming uninterested, lol. Ni, likewise, uncovers the symbolic meaning of that sensory stimulus 

_____

Knowing that Si and Ni are irrational functions, thus unconcerned with discernments, reasoning or decisions, I imagine that experiencing Introverted Perception as a dominant function is analogous to watching a movie in your mind. Like, a bunch of information is just streaming by. It may seems nebulous, sometimes unrelated, but you're just there to watch it. You don't come to any conclusions about it until Extraverted Judgment (or maybe tertiary Introverted Judgment) comes into play. People have said that one's experience of the functions is subjective, so yeah, maybe some Pi-doms "see" very specific "visions", "imagines" in their mind's eyes, where as others may just "hear" words, and other's mostly likely experience a combination.


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## Kathy Kane (Dec 3, 2013)

EthereaEthos said:


> What were you looking at?


I didn't mean to be cryptic. It's just that I've been trying to type someone I know and your comment pulled things together for me. So it was a not-on-topic IRL thing.


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## Knight of Ender (Mar 30, 2014)

For me, I get feeling and thinking mixed up most of the time. Everything is mixed up and swirled around, so sometimes I have moments of deja-vu from things I've considered, but forgotten. It feels amazing most of the time, but sometimes I jump topics in my head that don't mix, such as cellos and semi-trucks, and then I think of some horrible disaster involving the two and I become very self-concious. Also, it's nearly impossible to remember what I was thinking, except that it involves lots of emotion and I get 'high' off of it. I guess that's what intuition feels like.


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## Hiemal (Jan 5, 2014)

For me at least, I think of Ni as sort of like an inversion. Normally I just sort of nibble on various little musings I have grabbed from my environment or own thoughts, playing out little timelines based on small things that will probably never happen for my own amusement. If I actually get stimulated and highly interested in something that I'm thinking about, trying to solve, etc., I sort of completely detach from reality in an inverted manner, as if I'm drawing my entire focus inward to manipulate a problem, a thought, etc. When I'm engaged in this state, I literally have no connection to the external world; I just completely neglect all sensory input in favor for the imagery in my mind. The best way to describe the exact process would be ripping the thought/problem to shreds in my mind with such celerity that my own reasoning can't keep up with it to make sure it hasn't made an illogical tear at the stimuli. It sort of feels like sprinting in your own mind while cleaning up the footprints behind the sprinter at the exact same time. Sometimes I will reach a conclusion and have forgotten my entire process for arriving at the conclusion, meaning that I have to retrace my thoughts while already having the conclusion in my mind to double-check my own rapid, uncontrollable work. I stay completely drawn into my own mind while in this state, and the deeper the thoughts/problems go, the more internalized my focus becomes. Eventually, I get to the point where I completely assimilate an idea, a conclusion, a solution, etc., where it feels personalized, as if it is mine. Thus begins a wave of idiosyncratic associative weaving where I knit a visual perspective through information that had been drawn into the abyss that is me. I favored Chemistry much due to the fact that I would absorb the information, rip it apart, and weave it back together to form my own artistry of atoms colliding in clouds of gas, and electrons oscillating energy levels and orbital shells all while seeming to pop into existence and out of existence due to wave particle duality. It feels like the world itself has been ripped apart by my mind, and I get to see the beautiful mechanism that governs everything about it.


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## Recede (Nov 23, 2011)

ponder said:


> How would you describe what it 'feels like' to be an introvert with a leading perception dominant?


I have a sense of what it feels like to me, but I can't describe it in words very well. So I'm going to post a video of a sound/instrument that I associate with Pi:






To me it gives a similar vibe to the vibe I get from myself and my cognition. And I think it represents Pi because of the lack of structure and the fact that the wind blows on the chimes to create the sounds. Like the wind is creating an impression. Each breeze moves the chimes in a different way, but at the same time, nothing is discrete. The way the second breeze affects the chimes is influenced by the position the chimes are in after the first breeze. 

As a type leading with perception, my natural inclination is to simply perceive, often without much judgment. When watching a movie, for example, my dad (ESTJ) notices all the little inconsistencies, things that aren't very believable, and things that should have been done differently. In contrast, I just watch the movie. I enjoy the music, the colors, the scenery, the atmospheres, etc. I might occasionally notice the types of things the ESTJ notices, but not nearly as often.



ponder said:


> As a heavy Ti-user it seems simple enough to explain to other people. My inner world is like a sterilized machine in which I logically examine whatever's on my mind. IxFPs are different in that they are constantly refining their values and experiencing inner emotional states. However, both are constantly evaluating internally, it's just the tool that differs.
> 
> But what is it like to retreat to inner...perception? Ji-doms are constantly judging things internally, but Pi-doms just perceive something inside of them? I have a difficult time understanding this, and if anyone could explain that'd be great.


I don't really know how to describe my inner world. I think about a lot of things. I suppose most of what I think about falls into these categories: my cognition and personality, my feelings/emotional state, my physical state, and school and homework.


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## Aeriner (Jan 17, 2013)

Alea_iacta_est said:


> For me at least, I think of Ni as sort of like an inversion. Normally I just sort of nibble on various little musings I have grabbed from my environment or own thoughts, playing out little timelines based on small things that will probably never happen for my own amusement. If I actually get stimulated and highly interested in something that I'm thinking about, trying to solve, etc., I sort of completely detach from reality in an inverted manner, as if I'm drawing my entire focus inward to manipulate a problem, a thought, etc. When I'm engaged in this state, I literally have no connection to the external world; I just completely neglect all sensory input in favor for the imagery in my mind. The best way to describe the exact process would be ripping the thought/problem to shreds in my mind with such celerity that my own reasoning can't keep up with it to make sure it hasn't made an illogical tear at the stimuli. It sort of feels like sprinting in your own mind while cleaning up the footprints behind the sprinter at the exact same time. Sometimes I will reach a conclusion and have forgotten my entire process for arriving at the conclusion, meaning that I have to retrace my thoughts while already having the conclusion in my mind to double-check my own rapid, uncontrollable work. I stay completely drawn into my own mind while in this state, and the deeper the thoughts/problems go, the more internalized my focus becomes. Eventually, I get to the point where I completely assimilate an idea, a conclusion, a solution, etc., where it feels personalized, as if it is mine. Thus begins a wave of idiosyncratic associative weaving where I knit a visual perspective through information that had been drawn into the abyss that is me. I favored Chemistry much due to the fact that I would absorb the information, rip it apart, and weave it back together to form my own artistry of atoms colliding in clouds of gas, and electrons oscillating energy levels and orbital shells all while seeming to pop into existence and out of existence due to wave particle duality. It feels like the world itself has been ripped apart by my mind, and I get to see the beautiful mechanism that governs everything about it.


Beautifully articulated, Alea_iacta_est!


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## Aeriner (Jan 17, 2013)

ephemereality said:


> That it has gotten better since I got more psychologically healthy. I don't think it has anything to do with Se though since my girlfriend is an ESFP and she daydreams etc. I don't think daydreaming and such has anything to do with intuition or introversion. I barely notice the world around me to be honest. I can get weird sensations that things suddenly tangibly exist and that they are real. Usually happens when I'm around my cats but can happen with other objects as well. With also tends to come a fear that this realness makes it possible to lose the material and the tangible because it suddenly starts to mean something more than what it is. Before, I don't know how to make sense of it even. It was more just there but I didn't really notice it. It's a little like the feeling of lost and found. It's only when you lose something that you realize it was there and it was actually important to you.
> 
> I really don't know how else it manifests aside that I'm a very indulgent person, especially when it comes to physical pleasure. I love food, sleep, getting a good sense of rush from action etc. The craving for action i know is Se-related because I lose sight of what is really going on and what consequences actions have. All I can think of is how I need the stimulation right now and how good it feels.
> 
> ...


Ephemereality, your conundrum makes me think of Billy Joel's song, "River of Dreams." I've been where you are


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## Kavik (Apr 3, 2014)

When I retreat fully into my mind it's like locking myself in a sandbox. The external world disappears and I see all of the ideas I have from a fixed view the way you would see one of Hugo's movies. He filmed from the perspective of an audience watching a stage, though I see no frame and can change my distance relative to the subjects, and on that stage I can seamlessly move objects using my mind. I can see facial expressions morphing, water dripping, giant beasts rearing, mist swirling, a boat rocking in the ocean, indomitable mountains, falling rubble with people trapped underneath, and cars careening off bridges and smashing into lakes or exploding. 

I typically don't see the whole picture all at once. I prefer to zoom in on significant parts that can range from the size of a grain of sand to half a person's body, usually from the chest up. Though, I can expand up to a scenic view of a sunset back dropping a fishing port with moving parts that I can glance around at. A black void always exist where visuals are absent. It penetrates the surroundings, putting my object of interest into sharp relief. 

When switching between images or points on an image, there's a cut the void rushes to fill like a movie being edited in real time. It happens hundreds of times faster than the blink of an eye. The cuts create an illusion of continuous movement from frame to frame while the objects themselves move within each image.

I can hear dialogue, colliding trains, rainwater on different kinds of surfaces, thunder, crackling fire, boots grinding against concrete, screams, laughter, and whispers all playing at the same volume - the sound effects always come before or after the picture moves. When I write something with imagery I see what I type in real time and it flows naturally into text as easily as breathing.

Edit: Then I go back and edit, edit, edit so what I saw comes across clearly without repetition. - Editing through the smoke so you can see the fire. Most of my posts are reedited to death even after being posted.

When I go blank from anxiety, the reason I can't come up with what to say is because my visual process is compromised. All I see is that black void and I literally cannot grasp what I want to say because I can't see it. And it's also why I'm crap at finding the right words to verbally express myself. I need time to translate and refine my concepts in ways the outside world will understand.


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## RunForCover07 (Apr 9, 2013)

I don’t find that it’s my introverted intuition that makes me want to be introspective, although it is a introverted function in theory. I need my judging functions in order to break my insights down and to bring them into the external world in some way, and I do that with the use of extroverted feeling primarily. Actually, my intuition is much stronger and better suited for understanding people more than it is to understand myself, so I wouldn’t even say I’m personally introspective in that way (or at least not in the feelings department).

I have a hard time breaking my insights down at times, let alone the ability to explain them properly. I personally feel that INTJs are much better suited for bringing their insights into the tangible world because of Te. They actually want their ideas to come into the world in a logical, tangible way. Feelings in their own right are symbolic, what the hell can I do with that other than help people, and sometimes that doesn’t even work with Ni being subjective. Haha. Ideally though, I feel like I understand those around me in many aspects, even if it may not always be true.

I find when I become the most introspective is probably when I’m using introverted thinking, which allows me to bring my ideas into the world in more of a logical way than just through the use of feelings and understanding those around me, but I would say it helps with that as well. I’m a graphic and web designer, and I feel it allows me to use all of my functions at one point, including my inferior Se. But, I can’t deny that it’s bit draining for me. I also do 3D modeling and rendering as a hobby, because there is something I like about making things from a single idea, and being able to break it apart in a weird way by reconstructing it or refining it.

I don't know if I so much daydream more than I'm just completely oblivious to the outside world at times. I can’t really explain to you what Ni is like without telling you how it works with my judging functions. I most likely didn't even do it justice.

I think a lot about the future, people, romance, theory, etc.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Aeriner said:


> Ephemereality, your conundrum makes me think of Billy Joel's song, "River of Dreams." I've been where you are


What do you mean?


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

@<span class="highlight"><i><a href="http://personalitycafe.com/member.php?u=73671" target="_blank">EthereaEthos</a></i></span> let me put it this way: if you are so detached from physical reality in the first place, how do you know that you are detached from it? How do you know what physical reality is like if your entire existence is a sense of being manifested outside or not being quite a part of it in the first place? That the world you see and experience is almost like a world within a world and this is where you are, unbeknownst even to yourself? I'm like a ghost, I float around, I have a concrete body but the body isn't me necessarily. It's merely a physical manifestation of myself in another realm of existence that I only feel very vaguely connected to if at all. I know it's there but it is not where my focus lies. My focus is on the exploration of this unknown hidden world where people's senses do not reach. I'll quote myself again because this poem is so exemplary of what I'm trying to express:

*Beyond quantum mechanics*
We can't see it
We can't feel it
It's there where our senses do not reach
Can you believe it?
Can't believe it
That it's there
Where my senses do not reach
Faith?
No.
There is no god
Only us
So believe
That which we cannot see
It surrounds us
Unseen and untouched
That which we yearn for
Fate? 
No.
Dark matter dimensions
In our holographic universe
...our existences fade away.

Before I met my girlfriend this was even worse, this sense of (bodily) detachment, without being aware that I am/was detached from the physical. She commented on that I was very bad at recalling physical events, details etc. for example. I mean, I still am, but it's not as pathological or severe. It was very easy for me to get lost in the little things that were seen as meaningful to me in a symbolic way. Studying anthropology did not help this tendency at all as I began to apply my anthropology teachings onto everything I could apply it onto. Similarly, I don't think this feeling of feeling very socially removed from people helped either, that I have a very hard time getting along with people and wave with people the same way everyone else seem to get along and wave so much more naturally. This is almost pointless to even speak about because 99% of the people I've met who do not experience what I experience do not understand this. They comprehend it through their own logic of it just being as simple as walking up and talking to someone and if that doesn't work you just keep doing it until it works. Well, it doesn't work that way. 

I've only recently begun to experience this feeling of the world being more alive, to be able to actively engage it better by getting more in touch with Se and by doing that also feeling more in touch with the world in general and thus also my body. I still see body as a detached object from myself which is probably partially related to the fact that I'm transgender so it's very difficult for me to feel that this body is the body that I am because I also deeply desire a body that fits my sense of identity, but life changes overall has made it easier to get grounded like that and not succumb to extreme (physical) nihilism. I'm reminded of this particular speech that I think exemplifies the condition quite well:


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## iisu (Mar 8, 2014)

So far I have an impression that the difference between introverted and extraverted perception is that extraverted perceivers deal with perception of objective reality and introverted percievers deal with perception of their subjective impressions of objective reality.

It means that it's easier for introverted perceiving dominants to pick up their subjective impressions, be they more connected to what their senses told them (Si) or with some kind of subjective associations (Ni). It's not about doing something in an inner world of some sort.


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## Tranquility (Dec 16, 2013)

Kathy Kane said:


> I didn't mean to be cryptic. It's just that I've been trying to type someone I know and your comment pulled things together for me. So it was a not-on-topic IRL thing.


Ah, ok.


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## RunForCover07 (Apr 9, 2013)

ephemereality said:


> Yes, but that's not what the OP meant. It's a reference to an experiential sense of retreating into oneself as a conscious act, or somehow separating oneself from the outside world. I don't understand or relate to that experience as I have never to my knowledge, experienced or done such a thing. I'm quite sure an extrovert can experience this too. If anything, I might argue it's related to Ti-Fe in some way.


I think you're right that it has to do with Ti. It makes sense that you would need an introverted judging function in order to be truly introspective. Ni is a perception, not a judgement. This doesn't seem to appear in INxJs until our tertiary.

It kind of looks like this in my mind:

*INTJ - INFJ*

Ni - Ni - Not introspective, it doesn't make a judgement.
Te - Fe - Not introspective, it's a extroverted judging function.
Fi - Ti - Introspective, its an introverted judging function.
Se - Se - etc.

---

This is most likely why both INTPs and INFJs both have the same effect of getting lost in their "inner worlds", or in other words, getting lost in deep thinking and analyzing. Of course it's going to have a different use of Ti, seeing as INTPs have Ne/Si.

This kind of makes sense to me as well, because INFJs are very to the point and kind of "strategic" with their use of emotions, almost how INTJs are with the objective thinking. Let's get to the core of the problem and fix it.

---

Just a theory, and I haven't had any sleep, so I don't even know if what I said make sense at all.


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## absyrd (Jun 1, 2013)

Aeriner said:


> Ni dominance is a daily journey. I wake up, naturally. Then as the day progresses a boredom kicks in that almost compels my mind to travel to some distant place--a project perhaps, character or plot ideas for a written work I've been crafting; I have two novels in my head at all times. The only release or the insatiable imagination is to write and write often, anywhere. I carry a journal with me and just sit and watch people, writing down the story of their moments--one day their simple minute story can be shared with next generations. I ponder Neptune excessively and Triton-how the two could function as a forward base for a singular human civilization; with successful achievement of world peace, humankind could be unified in transcendent ways so that the vast wealth of collective knowledge can be pooled into one over-arching legacy of the species: taking our place among the stars. When you stop and ponder origins, all human beings were/are/will be essentially born of the stars (cosmic matter: hydrogen, carbons, etc.). It is only natural that we return to our metaphysical place of birth in the beautiful mystery of beyond. Human beings are beautiful creatures: our minds, bodies and hearts; each life is a perfected microcosm that adds another layer to the wonders of macrocosmic existence--no matter who or what or why they are. Your life is beautiful, as mine is also, and everyone's everywhere.


This is one of the most beautiful posts I've ever read.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

RunForCover07 said:


> I think you're right that it has to do with Ti. It makes sense that you would need an introverted judging function in order to be truly introspective. Ni is a perception, not a judgement. This doesn't seem to appear in INxJs until our tertiary.
> 
> It kind of looks like this in my mind:
> 
> ...


Even if I think of how I experience myself emotionally I am not sure I necessarily experience it as an inward motion either, but I do experience a strong and rich emotional life with a lot of emotional depth that is very difficult to express or place into words. A lot of my poetry is spent trying to put these abstractions into something with a bit more shape. Feelings are deep and complicated and not readily communicated it to the outside world. I wouldn't say it detaches though, but it's more a sense of looking inside myself for inner guidance if that makes sense. It's like in therapy where people ask you "what would you do?" as opposed to "what would they do?"

Perhaps it feels less detached because it involves the feeling function in some way. When I strongly engage with Te, I actually feel a lot more detached, emotionally as well.


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## Aeriner (Jan 17, 2013)

ephemereality said:


> What do you mean?


Emptiness. Searching. The void. Something indescribably insatiable at work in some deep unlocked core of who you are, something so transfixed that you become utterly consumed by it--and it leaves you feeling...un-whole and shapeless.

I think it would be cathartic to pose this question to yourself: who are you?

Though we express our reflections/interpretations of Ni process through two different lenses, our Ni experience is the same. I truly admire your mind.


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## AstralVagabond (Apr 8, 2014)

Aeriner said:


> Ni dominance is a daily journey. I wake up, naturally. Then as the day progresses a boredom kicks in that almost compels my mind to travel to some distant place--a project perhaps, character or plot ideas for a written work I've been crafting; I have two novels in my head at all times. The only release or the insatiable imagination is to write and write often, anywhere. I carry a journal with me and just sit and watch people, writing down the story of their moments--one day their simple minute story can be shared with next generations. I ponder Neptune excessively and Triton-how the two could function as a forward base for a singular human civilization; with successful achievement of world peace, humankind could be unified in transcendent ways so that the vast wealth of collective knowledge can be pooled into one over-arching legacy of the species: taking our place among the stars. When you stop and ponder origins, all human beings were/are/will be essentially born of the stars (cosmic matter: hydrogen, carbons, etc.). It is only natural that we return to our metaphysical place of birth in the beautiful mystery of beyond. Human beings are beautiful creatures: our minds, bodies and hearts; each life is a perfected microcosm that adds another layer to the wonders of macrocosmic existence--no matter who or what or why they are. Your life is beautiful, as mine is also, and everyone's everywhere.





piscesfish said:


> As a Ni dom, I live in my own head. I always have something to think about, be it what we'll be doing in my 4th period class or how I should really get around to finishing that list or that I should challenge myself to be more forgiving of others' mistakes. I also have little worlds with little people living in them who I've given names and backgrounds and hair colors, and when I've nothing to do I imagine them again and think of a chapter in a book I could write about them that I'll never do because I suck at fiction.
> 
> Many tangents, but controlled tangents. We're not like Ne with the ability to think of anything at all at any given moment. All of my side-thoughts have to do with the big picture that I'm controlling (which makes sense, really, since Ni-doms have a J preference). If I'm working on a math problem, my intuition will start jumping onto the nearest possible solution and run with it. If I'm telling myself to brainstorm everything I know about how my Ni functions, I'll grab onto the nearest thought and go with that.
> 
> ...


My God... I thought we INTPs had interesting inner worlds; but based on what you guys have said, dominant Ni - particularly in INFJs - sounds like the most amazing, ethereal experience of all. No wonder INFJs are so inordinately awesome. o.o



Aeriner said:


> Ni dominance is a daily journey. I wake up, naturally. Then as the day progresses a boredom kicks in that almost compels my mind to travel to some distant place--a project perhaps, character or plot ideas for a written work I've been crafting; I have two novels in my head at all times. The only release or the insatiable imagination is to write and write often, anywhere. I carry a journal with me and just sit and watch people, writing down the story of their moments--one day their simple minute story can be shared with next generations. I ponder Neptune excessively and Triton-how the two could function as a forward base for a singular human civilization; with successful achievement of world peace, humankind could be unified in transcendent ways so that the vast wealth of collective knowledge can be pooled into one over-arching legacy of the species: taking our place among the stars. When you stop and ponder origins, all human beings were/are/will be essentially born of the stars (cosmic matter: hydrogen, carbons, etc.). It is only natural that we return to our metaphysical place of birth in the beautiful mystery of beyond. Human beings are beautiful creatures: our minds, bodies and hearts; each life is a perfected microcosm that adds another layer to the wonders of macrocosmic existence--no matter who or what or why they are. Your life is beautiful, as mine is also, and everyone's everywhere.





Alea_iacta_est said:


> For me at least, I think of Ni as sort of like an inversion. Normally I just sort of nibble on various little musings I have grabbed from my environment or own thoughts, playing out little timelines based on small things that will probably never happen for my own amusement. If I actually get stimulated and highly interested in something that I'm thinking about, trying to solve, etc., I sort of completely detach from reality in an inverted manner, as if I'm drawing my entire focus inward to manipulate a problem, a thought, etc. When I'm engaged in this state, I literally have no connection to the external world; I just completely neglect all sensory input in favor for the imagery in my mind. The best way to describe the exact process would be ripping the thought/problem to shreds in my mind with such celerity that my own reasoning can't keep up with it to make sure it hasn't made an illogical tear at the stimuli. It sort of feels like sprinting in your own mind while cleaning up the footprints behind the sprinter at the exact same time. Sometimes I will reach a conclusion and have forgotten my entire process for arriving at the conclusion, meaning that I have to retrace my thoughts while already having the conclusion in my mind to double-check my own rapid, uncontrollable work. I stay completely drawn into my own mind while in this state, and the deeper the thoughts/problems go, the more internalized my focus becomes. Eventually, I get to the point where I completely assimilate an idea, a conclusion, a solution, etc., where it feels personalized, as if it is mine. Thus begins a wave of idiosyncratic associative weaving where I knit a visual perspective through information that had been drawn into the abyss that is me. I favored Chemistry much due to the fact that I would absorb the information, rip it apart, and weave it back together to form my own artistry of atoms colliding in clouds of gas, and electrons oscillating energy levels and orbital shells all while seeming to pop into existence and out of existence due to wave particle duality. It feels like the world itself has been ripped apart by my mind, and I get to see the beautiful mechanism that governs everything about it.


Okay... so some INTJs get this sort of experience as well. Anyways, I'm really getting to feel insecure about my INTP-ness now. Like I said, I could have imagined before that we INTPs¹ had the most interesting inner lives but reading about the fascinating perspective of Ni-dominance - both of whose types combined are at least as rare as INTPs on our own, I believe - makes me feel like I'm really missing out on something. In general, I find Jungian iNtuition fascinating and beautiful in both of its functions/variations; but Ni is ultimately, especially mystifying for me perhaps because I'm not personally familiar with it, having no idea what it's like from firsthand experience² and frankly finding it a bit difficult to understand by reading about it from external sources. But there is one thing that I feel that I know now - in my next life, I want to be reincarnated as an INFJ.

(Or at least an INFP. That should be interesting as well.)

¹ Well, probably INFPs, actually. Since their inner worlds are so painted with the colour of emotion. But that INTPs were second!

² Even my type in Socionics, the INTj, is said to have Socionics' own take on Ni as a 'strong but largely unconscious' function whose use is almost impossible for the INTj to consciously notice. So it follows that people like me _would_ have no idea what it's like.


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