# Introverts are seen as a disability by women.



## mbti_is_for_newbs (Mar 28, 2013)

You never hear about people wanting to be "introverts".
But instead you see books and articles made on "how to become an extrovert".

That leads me to believe, that there is something inherently wrong with being an introvert.
Extroverts get the girls, get the CEO jobs, give the orders.
Introverts are the grunt workers, scientists who take orders, from the less knowledgeable extroverts boss.

So if society was full of only Extraverts. Would we still be living like caveman, where the alpha male is the only dominant male that can mate while the introvert is left with scraps. 

You see, within each introvert is the reptillian primative part of the brain. This dormant primative part of the brain is what makes you an extravert If stranded on an island, only the alpha male can survive. The introvert will quickly learn to become extravert in order to mate and challenge other males for king of the hill dominance - last thing on the mind of this society is "logic & reasoning".

So why do women prefer alpha male extroverts?


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## pmj85 (Jul 31, 2010)

Meanwhile, I'm engaged to a successful ENTJ who "Couldn't live without" me.

You're meeting the wrong kind of women - I've enjoyed plenty of female attention over the years.


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## guitarguy (Sep 16, 2012)

The term Introvert and Extrovert is used differently in the general populous. Introvert has come to connote shy and timid while Extrovert is confident and outgoing. Just because you are typed as an introvert does not mean that you do not posses many of the same attractive qualities as an "extrovert." Own who you are and don't be ashamed.


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## Foibleful (Oct 2, 2012)

There are times when I wish I could be an extrovert. Because it would make my life easier. But in the end, I wouldn't be any different than I am, which is highly introverted. And I love my highly introverted husband for many reasons, but also because he understands me. He gets that I can love him deeply and still need to be alone.


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## Du_bist_ein_knoedel_brot (Jun 23, 2012)

Not this woman. I love introverts. Esp. INTP and INTJ. 

I think the issue may lie in being that extroverts are often more outgoing when it comes to pursuing women. Simply sitting in your room and thinking about a girl isn't going to win her over. The extroverts probably get more women because they are the ones a)around them at parties, social events, bars. You have to be around women to get them. 

The second problem may be self confidence. Sometimes, but not always, an extrovert can come off as someone who is confident, and an introvert as someone who isn't. Girls like men who are confident. The thing is, introverts can be very confident too, but it doesn't always show if you don't "extrovert" it out. 

As an introvert its hard to meet people period, let a lone make meaningful relationships, because we are all just so happy staying in our rooms, rather than going out. I for one, simply can't be bothered.


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## SublimeSerendipity (Dec 30, 2010)

Heck no!!! I can't *stand* Alpha Males (sorry ExTJs....). All I see is arrogance, cockiness, and dominance. Definitely far from the things that turn me on in a potential mate.... 

I'll take an introverted guy any day of the week. IxTJs are my favorite :kitteh: However, there is also that desire to be at least a little pursued, something that many introverts struggle with. But you know what, to me it's a weeding out process. If an introvert has enough courage to make the first move, I know they really want it and that they have at least some self-confidence and aren't an awkward wallflower. Because I am a social creature. 

There is a difference between being introverted and painfully shy. Introvert/extravert is a way of processing and action, not whether or not someone has a social phobia. Both introverts and extroverts can be shy. And there are many-a-introverts who are far from shy. It doesn't mean they enjoy being the center of attention or lots of social activity, but they do not fear social interaction. My ISTJ boyfriend is definitely not shy. It doesn't mean he's not uncomfortable around new people. But he can do it, and most of the time after a few minutes he's perfectly fine. He's also an attorney and has to "pseudo-extravert" when he's in court and dealing with clients all the time, so it's something he's perfected. And he's not the most self-confident guy ever. Far from it. But he pushes himself out of his comfort zone when he needs to. 

Granted, if you have a defeatist mentality @mbti_is_for_newbs of course you're going to think that women hate introverts. It's that attitude that women don't like. Trust me, women can sense that you don't think you're good enough, and you are what you sow. If you think you're not good enough and that there is something defective about you and that your personality is unattractive, then you're going to be seen as unattractive.


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## PyrLove (Jun 6, 2010)

mbti_is_for_newbs said:


> That leads me to believe, that there is something inherently wrong with being an introvert.
> Extroverts get the girls, get the CEO jobs, give the orders.
> Introverts are the grunt workers, scientists who take orders, from the less knowledgeable extroverts boss.


Where the heck are you getting this stuff?



> You see, within each introvert is the reptillian primative part of the brain. This dormant primative part of the brain is what makes you an extravert If stranded on an island, only the alpha male can survive. The introvert will quickly learn to become extravert in order to mate and challenge other males for king of the hill dominance - last thing on the mind of this society is "logic & reasoning".


Source?



> So why do women prefer alpha male extroverts?


http://personalitycafe.com/intj-forum-scientists/140744-intjs-can-fake-extravert.html#post3565922

I smell troll.


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## DiamondDays (Sep 4, 2012)

Lol yah dude, sure is good we have youse introverts becus us extravorts suur are dumb lool!


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## Antipode (Jul 8, 2012)

This is the inherent issue of personality types--people who take it too far. People who classify. You think of society like introverts and extroverts battling against one another, but in a human body, do the exterior and interior organs strife? Society is like one giant human body: We each have our own position in the body. You can try to change positions, which is fine, but keep in mind--without one, the other will fall.


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## ebullientcorner (Oct 5, 2012)

I have always been attracted more to Introverted men as a rule. 
If you are worried about it, find a woman you like and try to talk to her. Women respond to genuine interest always. And if they don't, then you will not want to date her anyways. (Not to be a fox and the grapes because it's actually true)

My husband is an INTP and is an 'introvert' and this means he desperately needs time for himself to recharge, and that is all it means. He is usually the life of the party within our group-- having interesting ideas and so on. But with new people or new situations he can be a little shy.

This 'change your life' self help syndrome is focused that way, you are right. But it doesn't mean it is valid by any means. Anything that overgeneralizes and plays into your insecurities I would be extremely wary of as a rule. ( I am wary of any form of absolutism, but that is just me). Nothing follows one linear rule...nothing of this nature. You can't assume an entire populace's frame of mind - it lies in the objectification concept. It is assuming women have group-think and can't conceptualize in this matter. Do all men only like introverts? or extroverts? or Se doms? or Ni doms? It's a silly idea- but not malicious. You need to love yourself, or you cannot conceive of others loving you in a healthy way.


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## Lotan (Aug 10, 2012)

Not only does this topic reek of "extroverts are primitive shallow conformists that can't possibly understand us deep, thoughtful introverts", it reeks of someone who thinks they've been "friend zoned".

Humans aren't divided into Alphas, Betas, Omegas and whatever else you can think of. You can have a "Type A" personality, but that doesn't make you an "Alpha" - a term, I notice, is almost exclusively used to describe males without any regard for the female's personality (as if males are ranked according to their unique attributes but all females are just the same because hey getting laid is getting laid, right? This 'alpha male, beta male' culture that's developed on the internet is very very male centric.).

Being introverted doesn't mean you have higher capacity for logic and reasoning. Being extroverted doesn't mean you are more "primal" or "alpha", or depend on social consensus. I'm an extroverted female who is not very social. I like introverts and extroverts but tend to prefer people who fall in the middle of the spectrum. I really, seriously doubt that most women reject introverts just because they're introverted. Maybe all the women you've met are huge jerks, sure, but maybe there's something else that's the problem.


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## Little Cloud (Jan 12, 2013)

mbti_is_for_newbs said:


> You never hear about people wanting to be "introverts".
> But instead you see books and articles made on "how to become an extrovert".
> 
> That leads me to believe, that there is something inherently wrong with being an introvert.
> ...


Why are you referring to just women? I saw a lot of books written also by men about self-help to "go out introversion".
As a woman, I find it very silly, because I don't find introvert as "weak" person but just as a different way from extroversion to perceive the world just like extrovert are perceived by introverts as people different because they perceive the world in a different way from them. No one is superior to the other, it seems so obvious to me!


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## Mioonebet (Jul 1, 2012)

I don't know .I'm seeing alot of sterotyping here. Extrovert= Stong back, weak-minded?, Introvert= Strong mind with a weak back bone? No, I don't look at things that way, I've seen it in some and the opposite in others. I don't think there's anything wrong or weak or deficient about being an intovert and I really do not look at it as something to overcome. It's a innate tendentcy one way or the other and there are pros and cons to both. In many ways, there's alot of strenghts that introverts have simply because they are introverts. Reflection, the abilty to work independantly, etc. I like and seek out introverted men. I see it as attractive and more in line with my way of doing things, although, I don't look down on extroverts for being what they naturally are.


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## LadyO.W.BernieBro (Sep 4, 2010)

Bah. l think there's a tendency for women to display some traits that are (maybe falsely) associated with introversion, even if they aren't introverts so they may be drawn to a male who seems more "secure" and equate this with extroversion. 

These roles seem to have been misinterpreted along the way somehow, although ESTJ is the most common male MBTI type. Many men are naturally more reserved, at least in conversation IME with women (at least pretending) to be more chatty. So l'd think many women are at least more sociable and might want an introverted male. l've seen countless real life examples of this dynamic.

l'd be comfortable with someone who was either, but honestly l don't go for alpha extroverts at all, not even as friends, make or female. 

There is also such thing as an alpha introvert and l agree with the poster above as far as the way the typical "sensitive and introspective" introvert image is popularized. l'm a non dominant extrovert who could care less about being the center of attention.


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## flippantandforgetful (Mar 27, 2013)

Are you serious here? Extrovertion does not mean "dominating" or "powerful". Extrovetion and introvertion are not equivelent to strong and timid. They are simpily if you're energized by people, or drained by people. Some extoverted men can be veiwed as "girly" and some introverted men can be seen as "strong". For example, a bubbily, outgoing man might be labeled as the "best gay friend", and a quiet, strong man might be veiwed as a "perfect husband" figure. The girls you're talking about might just simpily prefer sensing, thinking, extroverted men. If all the girls you're getting hung up on want that type, you might be going for the wrong kind of girl. But, you're speaking if men are competing for the women like they're a prize. Women are human beings just like you. Don't talk about them just like they're around to "mate" with. 

And another point, not all girls want the "CEO" type extroverts. For example, prefer INTJs or INFJs. Don't make assumtions on all women based on the ones whom have "friendzoned" you.


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## astriom (Mar 22, 2013)

mbti_is_for_newbs said:


> You see, within each introvert is the reptillian primative part of the brain. This dormant primative part of the brain is what makes you an extravert If stranded on an island, only the alpha male can survive. The introvert will quickly learn to become extravert in order to mate and challenge other males for king of the hill dominance - last thing on the mind of this society is "logic & reasoning".


Actually, the "reptilian primitive part of the brain" is called the limbic system and it has absolutely nothing to do with being introverted or extroverted. It is made up of various regions that process things like emotion, fight or flight, memory, hormones, involuntary metabolic processes, etc.. Pretty much every aspect of introverted or extroverted personalities are tied to the neocortex, the outer layer of the brain.

Also, you can actually have an introverted "alpha male". As has been pointed out in this thread as well as many others, introverted doesn't mean shy or timid, just a preference to not be surrounded by people all the time, and to contemplate and decide things on your own rather than relying on someone else.

If you're having girl trouble, I doubt this is the cause. Maybe there are other things happening that you haven't thought about or considered yet.


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## guitarguy (Sep 16, 2012)

astriom said:


> Also, you can actually have an introverted "alpha male". As has been pointed out in this thread as well as many others, introverted doesn't mean shy or timid, just a preference to not be surrounded by people all the time, and to contemplate and decide things on your own rather than relying on someone else.


Example: Walter White - Breaking Bad - INTJ


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## firedell (Aug 5, 2009)

I have seen many extraverted/introverted couples over the years; even currently and the males aren't always extraverted.


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## LiquidLight (Oct 14, 2011)

firedell said:


> I have seen many extraverted/introverted couples over the years; even currently and the males aren't always extraverted.


Jung himself pointed out that this is extremely common. You can almost make it a rule, that introverts will pair with extraverts its so common.


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## aquagardenia (Feb 6, 2013)

While I disagree with your conclusion - that women prefer alpha male extroverts - I can empathize with what seems to be your frustration concerning how introverts are perceived in society. Some cultures place a high value on being extroverted and others on being introverted. Luckily, having found this site, you are surrounded by people who place a high value on...people! No matter what personality type.

I think it would be good for you to focus on what's great about your personality, your introversion, whatever. Because, honestly, if you don't like yourself or aren't comfortable with yourself no matter what society thinks or says, why would or should anyone else?

Also, take a look at this article --- Introverts No Longer the Quiet Followers of Extroverts - Forbes


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## auburnstar (Mar 22, 2013)

Being LGBT I find it hard to understand your reasoning. 

The fact of getting energy from other people vs. getting energy from yourself isn't really a big quality that I look for in a girl. Yea yea okay true extraverted chicks are hotter in general, but if an introverted girl was very nice and a wonderful person then yes.


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## Vanishing Point (Oct 2, 2012)

Being yourself and not putting on an act, not having eau d'esperation (i.e rather happily be by yourself if you have not met someone you really like and be ok with that) and actually being interested in the personality of the person you're pursuing instead of their privates are the real success elements that the laydeeezzz love. Not cash and pectorals. This silly extrovert introvert business has to stop. It makes no difference in the real world. Even I can see it's a glaringly obvious fact with my inferior Se. People have to stop burying their noses in cheap self help books "players guide to becoming alpha man". This is all a ploy to sell axe deodorant and impractical cars!!!


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## StaceofBass (Jul 1, 2012)

mbti_is_for_newbs said:


> So why do women prefer alpha male extroverts?


I...don't?

Introverts are a lot more fun for me to talk to. 

Plus I feel rewarded once they do open up because they trust me enough. Trust means a lot to me in all relationships, be they friendships or romantic.


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## Jewl (Feb 28, 2012)

I actually tend to be attracted more to Introverts -- both in just the general temperament (the way society defines 'Introvert') and the Jungian sort of Introvert. 

You see books in society about "how to become an extrovert" because society's view of extroversion is entirely different from Jung's view of Extroversion. And even probably the MBTI view. Society sees the confident, talkative, cheerful, outgoing, socially graceful person as the Extrovert. I don't know anybody, even the most seemingly cheerful and confident and graceful people, who would identify with that. We all seek help from those books and articles because we lack confidence and so we think we lack grace. Even aside from that, many Extroverts aren't "extroverts", at least not the way society defines them. 



> Introverts are the grunt workers, scientists who take orders, from the less knowledgeable extroverts boss.


Implying something about Extroversion, here, are we? Just what do you think Extroversion is, @mbti_is_for_newbs?


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## Daniel_James_Maher (Feb 11, 2013)

Nothing like a troll to come up with a thread that gets lots of comments.

Some people who know me are surprised to learn that I am an introvert, as has been said, it doesn't need to be obvious. Being friendly to people is good behaviour not just extroverted behaviour.
Introverts can be highly successful in leadership, and so can extraverts; they just face different challenges and have different strengths.

I don't know how the term extraversion was first used, but I think a definition which suggests it is superior and healthier compared to introversion is an un-helpful definition.

Personality is descriptive, neutral and hardly changes.
Character on the other hand should be developed.

Most women prefer men with good character, just like everybody else.


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## Raven2 (Oct 12, 2011)

I like introverts much more than I like extroverts. The only problem is that the extroverts, especially the brand that are super talkative and close their mouths once in a blue moon, like me much more than I like them. It's because I'm such a good listener and never talk over them.


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## dragthewaters (Feb 9, 2013)

EVERYONE sees introverts as liabilities, not just women. I'm a female introvert and it has held me back my entire life.

Maybe you should try dating introverted women. I can't deal with extroverts for long, they wear me out. My boyfriend is an introvert too (I think he's an INFP?) and I like that he gets my shyness and need to be alone a lot of the time.


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## Bel Esprit (Aug 2, 2011)

I agree with the first half, but not the second half of your post. Introverts are often undervalued in society, but extroverts are also often attracted to introverts and vise-verse. Both introverts and extraverts require the other to survive and make a society I believe.


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## pmj85 (Jul 31, 2010)

aquagardenia said:


> Some cultures


AKA America 

I wonder about Spain, too. My fiancee is Spanish so I've had the pleasure of being fully immersed in their culture. Well, as immersed as you can be when you can only say things like "MY NAME IS PAUL. I AM VERY LIKE YOURS COUNTRY! IT HAS MUCH HEAT, BUT THE UK DOES NOT HAVE MUCH HEAT.... DONDE ESTA EL VINO POR FAVOR?" in their language. It seems very common to, for example, shout at each other from various locations around the house in order to hold a conversation. They also spend a great amount of time in the company of friends and family; the last trip we took was over Christmas and I was exhausted after only a few days. We spent the entire time visiting people, chatting it up for a few ours and then moving on to the next people... ugh.

It seems to be 'their way'. Eat well, socialise as much as you can. When possible, verbalise your thoughts as loudly as possible.

On the flip side, they're a very jolly bunch so it's all good. I've never felt so welcome anywhere, honestly.

So yeah. I'm guessing Spain is also quite an extraverted culture. Truth be told, I was glad to get home and retire to my study for a few days 

*Phone rings*

"HOLA MI CHICHI!"

"Leave me alone, damnit! I need another day!"

"VALE, BONITO!"

*Click*

I've got her well trained ;p


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## Doom (Oct 25, 2010)

Not really, maybe in certain countries where people don't understand how it really works and confuse it with shy and timid but the strong silent type has always been seen as sexually attractive. It's appreciated more here because they are seen as less likely to get bored and get into trouble and more easier to deal with because they're not all in your face.

I know there are girls out there who like the quiet and even shy males over the more outgoing extrovert types but because of social conditioning where all males have to be the one to ask them out people see them as huge sluts if they chase after a male. On top of that a lot of introverts insist on only being with other introverts.


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## CrystallineSheep (Jul 8, 2012)

I don't see how this can be the case because sometimes it is not even easy to tell whether someone is introverted or extroverted. Sometimes you can but sometimes you can't. Introverted /=\ Social skills don't necessarily correlate. My mother is introverted but has great social skills and able to move in life with ease. I am more of an example of socially awkward introvert. It can be said social skills don't come easy to introverts but it doesn't mean they are held back. It's a skill that can be developed. Both introverts and extroverts posses advantages and disadvantages but the disadvantages don't hold them back. I think what holds people back is lack of social skills than anything else.


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## Pete The Lich (May 16, 2011)

Circumstantial evidence








Circumstantial evidence everywhere

im too lazy to actually make it into a meme right now since my friend doesnt have a solid photo editor :sad:


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## VeraH (Mar 27, 2013)

I don't see anything wrong with a guy being an introvert. I'm actually drawn to them, but find most of them a bit too shy to open up to me.

There is a difference between introversion and shyness (social anxiety), though.

I'm "extroverted" and spontaneous so I like their calmness, reserved demeanor, and stability. 
I'll be seen talking to the alpha males because they'll actually approach me. But I don't like them.

Just be comfortable with how/who you are. Just because you are an "introvert", it does not mean that you shouldn't/couldn't socialize, too. Socialize to get the basic social networking part done, then go home and recuperate.

A confident and independent introvert = extreme sexiness.


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## mbti_is_for_newbs (Mar 28, 2013)

pmj85 said:


> AKA America
> 
> I wonder about Spain, too. My fiancee is Spanish so I've had the pleasure of being fully immersed in their culture. Well, as immersed as you can be when you can only say things like "MY NAME IS PAUL. I AM VERY LIKE YOURS COUNTRY! IT HAS MUCH HEAT, BUT THE UK DOES NOT HAVE MUCH HEAT.... DONDE ESTA EL VINO POR FAVOR?" in their language. It seems very common to, for example, shout at each other from various locations around the house in order to hold a conversation. They also spend a great amount of time in the company of friends and family; the last trip we took was over Christmas and I was exhausted after only a few days. We spent the entire time visiting people, chatting it up for a few ours and then moving on to the next people... ugh.
> 
> ...


All souther american cultures are like that, actually most 'mediteranian' cultures are like that too. It's only N.America where everyone has to be quiet and don't disturb the neighbour status quo.
But within the culture, there are introverts, they've just been trained to zone out from an early age while the family is having a party.


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## mbti_is_for_newbs (Mar 28, 2013)

VeraH said:


> I don't see anything wrong with a guy being an introvert. I'm actually drawn to them, but find most of them a bit too shy to open up to me.
> 
> There is a difference between introversion and shyness (social anxiety), though.
> 
> ...


What's scary, is when an introvert is socializing intentionally. They only speak in order to gain information.
When an extrovert speaks - well its a Obsessive Compulsive Disorder - they don't even realizes they do it.


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## KSKatze (Nov 15, 2012)

Du_bist_ein_knoedel_brot said:


> Not this woman. I love introverts. Esp. INTP and INTJ.
> 
> I think the issue may lie in being that extroverts are often more outgoing when it comes to pursuing women. Simply sitting in your room and thinking about a girl isn't going to win her over. The extroverts probably get more women because they are the ones a)around them at parties, social events, bars. You have to be around women to get them.
> 
> ...


I think this is the key really, girls like confidence. And luckily, introverts can be confident too and the best girls probably don't need you to jump up and down shouting this in order to know you're confident :ninja:.


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## VeraH (Mar 27, 2013)

mbti_is_for_newbs said:


> What's scary, is when an introvert is socializing intentionally. They only speak in order to gain information.
> When an extrovert speaks - well its a Obsessive Compulsive Disorder - they don't even realizes they do it.


Interesting. So, as an INTJ, could you offer some further insight:

Are you ever interested in knowing information about another person, then?
Or is it the case that you only speak because you "have to"?


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## Kabosu (Mar 31, 2012)

lol the second post from OP is even more questionable. I think in my mind more often than I speak and only really speak when I want to. I've tried speaking at times when I didn't want to and boy is that awkward.


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## ForsakenMe (Aug 30, 2010)

I honestly don't really take into account whether the man I happen to have feelings for is an extrovert or an introvert, because that's just being ignorant and discriminative. However, I've dated an extroverted male before and it was awful. Of course, it was only one guy, but it's enough to leave a bad taste in my mouth. After that, I briefly saw an introverted man, an IxTP no less, but he while he bitched and complained about women leaving him behind and only dating 'durrrr alpha males who beat them hurrr', I was willing to have a long relationship with him. Guess what happened? He up and left me out of the blue for seemingly no reason at all, and he even said the night before that he really likes me a lot. Um..?

What I'm trying to say is, there are good (and bad) people on both sides of the spectrum, and you shouldn't judge or even generalize that every single extroverts are the same and every introverts are the same.

I do have a more preference for introverted men, though; they seem to get me the most in terms of sociability, shyness issues, etc.


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## MrShatter (Sep 28, 2010)

mbti_is_for_newbs said:


> So why do women prefer alpha male extroverts?


Society man.


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