# How does one socialize as an INTx?



## Eset (Jun 7, 2016)

xdae said:


> Though I can tell from your primary SX variant that what you truly want is intimacy and to be understood. In that case, finding a loving partner will solve your lonely problem.


Indeed, but it's somewhat more easier to make a friend than a partner.
Would rather be more confident making friends first instead of trying to jump into a relationship only to fail.
I dislike failure.


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## MisterPerfect (Nov 20, 2015)

narcissistic said:


> As you might guess I am a social retard, and I don't think that lies down to being extroverted or introverted. Why?
> Because a lot of people I had as friends were introverted yet they go out a lot like; bars, parties, clubs etc and seem to be having a good time doing so. Yet I seemingly have never really gone out on such activities nor enjoyed whenever I did go out.
> I suppose I'm quite envious on seeing other people have fun and seem to be outgoing, seeing people at my age the majority of them are outgoing and enjoying themselves doing so. Will that ever be a possibility for me?
> 
> ...


I simply fake it. I am a sociol idiot too and without the system I kind of just sit there my mouth agape and like "Uh". I have to put way too much effort into everything and I often over shoot it by a large amount. I also wrote the set of rules I generally follow when interaction with other people down on a website for intructinal articles. In a form of science it would fall under "Psychology/sociology".

I tend to be bad at things but I try really really hard. 

For example I was doing bad at work and got a poor review and I became the third best worker there. I also am a perfectionist and have to make everything just right or its complete garbage in my eyes. Which is why I turned in an asigment late and still got an A+ back in middle school. Our teacher basically told us we could half ass it but I said NO! If Im going to do this I have to do it right. 110 percent all the time.


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## Ksara (Feb 13, 2014)

I would look at hobbies/interests you have and what sorts of clubs/classes/etc exists in you area.

That is you have a place of interest to go. Likely there will be others who share similar interest. From there there will be something to talk about and over time form bonds of familiarity and friendship.

If you prefer to stay home there may be online communities where friendships can be formed.



If you want it to be a possibility (to go out to bars/clubs and have fun), then it's a matter of taking the path to work towards making it a reality. It's a journey of building self confidence and to not let fear lead you in social situations. It starts by taking small steps to challenge yourself and over come.

The first step could be reaching out to an old friends, another actually going out to run errands and interacting with people (e.g. shopping). You could move to going to places by yourself where solitude isn't so awkward (library to read, cafe and grab a coffee, movies). From there simply striking up conversations when waiting in line. Work towards looking people in the eye and being able to smile at them as you walk past. Then actually going out to places with lots of people socialising (club/bar) and strike up conversations with people you don't know.
The idea is to grow confidence so it's not a huge hurdle to climb over.

Also I have found for myself, what I think about myself shapes my perception of myself. If I thought I was a social retard I probably would be a social retard. Mindset can really help to build or pull down self confidence.


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## Peter (Feb 27, 2010)

narcissistic said:


> As you might guess I am a social retard, and I don't think that lies down to being extroverted or introverted. Why?
> Because a lot of people I had as friends were introverted yet they go out a lot like; bars, parties, clubs etc and seem to be having a good time doing so. Yet I seemingly have never really gone out on such activities nor enjoyed whenever I did go out.
> I suppose I'm quite envious on seeing other people have fun and seem to be outgoing, seeing people at my age the majority of them are outgoing and enjoying themselves doing so. Will that ever be a possibility for me?
> 
> ...


What about game conventions?


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## Eset (Jun 7, 2016)

Peter said:


> What about game conventions?


Possibly.

Right now I'm having a hard time not pointing out all the faults and excuses I could make from the help you guys are giving me.
I want to believe that I can "just do it", but I physically struggle to move my body.
I want to be positive, but it's hard for me not to point out the negativity.
I want to stick with a plan, but it's hard for me not to see the faults.

I want to be able to say "yes, I'll go look around my area and find some conventions to go see", but the only thing I can think of is "I don't think I have enough money for it, it seems too far out, how am I meant to get there? what am I suppose to do there?" or I'll just forget about the idea of going to one, I often say I'll do something just later to forget that I was going to do it.

I know how to solve this, but it's a matter of finding the solution.
But with the solution it's not going to change who I am, it's just going to be able to enable me.

And the solution is to find an ExTJ partner to enable my needs and to keep my train on track.
You may say "but you shouldn't depend on someone like that, it's dangerous". And yes it is, but as long as it helps me then I'm all good. 
I'd rather be able to accomplish my aspirations however having the possibility of being manipulated or depending on someone.
Than sit around doing nothing because I don't have the will to do so by myself.

Anyways if you want to object/oppose on that idea then do so, it'll help discover a deeper truth in which one I can't see.


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## Peter (Feb 27, 2010)

narcissistic said:


> Possibly.
> 
> Right now I'm having a hard time not pointing out all the faults and excuses I could make from the help you guys are giving me.
> I want to believe that I can "just do it", but I physically struggle to move my body.
> ...


Just out of curiosity,... what do you eat? I mean, what's your normal daily diet? (please be a bit detailed with every meal of the day.)


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## Ksara (Feb 13, 2014)

narcissistic said:


> Possibly.
> 
> Right now I'm having a hard time not pointing out all the faults and excuses I could make from the help you guys are giving me.
> I want to believe that I can "just do it", but I physically struggle to move my body.
> ...



What is it you are running away from?
I ask because I often see excuse are an attempted to hide the truth we don't want to admit to ourselves, often its a fear we do not want to face.


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## Eset (Jun 7, 2016)

Peter said:


> Just out of curiosity,... what do you eat? I mean, what's your normal daily diet? (please be a bit detailed with every meal of the day.)


I barely eat much, when I do eat it's mainly binging. 
I drink tea a lot, like 6 cups a day. Either tea or coffee depending on which one I'm addicted to at the time.
I also drink a lot of coke and pepsi whenever I can, maybe I'll go out and buy some once a week as a treat.

I don't have any meals during breakfast unless I'm really hungry then I'll eat any snacks such a sausage rolls, biscuits, tarts (any sort of finger foods).
I don't eat much at lunch and usually forget to eat at lunch. If I do it's canned food like spaghetti, beans. Snacks as my "meal" too.

Dinner/tea is the only time I actually eat anything "proper", usually my parents cook healthy foods like Italian, Chinese, Indian and roasts.

I binge eat a fair amount at night, such as ice-cream if we have any, chocolate, biscuits, any finger foods even if it's meal worthy.

Rinse and repeat.

At college though I ate fairly regularly at lunch by having sandwiches and that sort of stuff, however I'm no longer at college so yeah.


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## Eset (Jun 7, 2016)

Ksara said:


> What is it you are running away from?
> I ask because I often see excuse are an attempted to hide the truth we don't want to admit to ourselves, often its a fear we do not want to face.


I simply do not want to live (not death, but being healthy).
I just want to able to sit at home and do nothing whilst someone looks after me and acts as if they're a servant.

That's my core desire within life. However I do not like that so much since I know it's something I am unable to make a reality.
Whenever I have any sort of aspirations I instantly fall back into this "sloth" mentality, so far I've discovered it's from a "don't do it unless you know you'll succeed 100%" and/or "what's the point?".
I don't know how to change that since believing is not being.

If I think then I'll just think about the negative stuff that might/will come from it and will ignore the positives, I'll think of the danger and risks involved. And so I will not do it.

If I don't think then I don't care about what I am doing and will "do it", however I can't do that either as I will ignore the risks and dangers and such making me vulnerable. 

It's a matter of; too much effort, fear, lacking of purpose that stops me from doing stuff. Or something like that.

From this I already see my answer, I just want to see what you think just in case my answer is not just me wanting to have an answer.


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## Aridela (Mar 14, 2015)

narcissistic said:


> As you might guess I am a social retard, and I don't think that lies down to being extroverted or introverted. Why?
> Because a lot of people I had as friends were introverted yet they go out a lot like; bars, parties, clubs etc and seem to be having a good time doing so. Yet I seemingly have never really gone out on such activities nor enjoyed whenever I did go out.
> I suppose I'm quite envious on seeing other people have fun and seem to be outgoing, seeing people at my age the majority of them are outgoing and enjoying themselves doing so. Will that ever be a possibility for me?
> 
> ...


Why not accept we're just not party people? 

I can only do parties if I know a few people there, and even then I tend to stick to interacting with said people. I'm just not the kind of person to start a conversation with a total stranger. I'm usually OK with them making the first step though. 

I know the feeling of 'maybe I'm missing out on all the fun', but I actually feel more isolated and alone when in parties than anywhere else. INTx do better in small groups of 2-4 people, so why don't you see if you could join a D&D club or any sort of society in your area. Learn a skill. This will give you incentive to socialise and you're getting something out of it. 

I find yoga works well for me, because it's good for fitness, it's relaxing, you're not expected to talk much, yet you're socialising with people. See what works for you.


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## Eset (Jun 7, 2016)

Aridela said:


> Why not accept we're just not party people?


I'm unable to accept that no matter how much I say to myself "It's not like you enjoy it anyways".
Accepting that is accepting failure because I was scared.

As much as I don't do stuff because I'm scared of it or don't want to experience failure, I also don't want to have fears nor failure.
Meaning yes it would be better if I just didn't bother. However doing so means I'm a failure with fears.

So wanting to go out to party is basically me saying "I want to overcome my fears and I want to succeed", even if I may not actually enjoy it at first.


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## Aridela (Mar 14, 2015)

narcissistic said:


> I'm unable to accept that no matter how much I say to myself "It's not like you enjoy it anyways".
> Accepting that is accepting failure because I was scared.
> 
> As much as I don't do stuff because I'm scared of it or don't want to experience failure, I also don't want to have fears nor failure.
> ...


Well, you can go out to parties. 

You're just much less likely to enjoy them. 

INTJs will go to parties for networking/socialising because they like to get shit done. 

INTPs not so much. We don't care much for being efficient. 

That being said, I do go to parties for work etc, and I try to socialise by emulating one of the types I find easier to emulate (ENTJs). So I just pretend I'm being more into people and less chaotic. But that's the opposite of having fun really, it's just a way of navigating social 'have tos'.


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## Hao (Apr 20, 2016)

narcissistic said:


> Possibly.
> 
> Right now I'm having a hard time not pointing out all the faults and excuses I could make from the help you guys are giving me.
> I want to believe that I can "just do it", but I physically struggle to move my body.
> ...


*You know what's your problem ? You're thinking too fucking much. It's so draining, almost unbearable to read.

Now you see, things are actually more simpler once you stop over-analazying it. You either really want to do something about it (case in which you start doing it) or you don't. There is no middle option.

So stop playing these what-if scenarios, otherwise you'll be stuck in this loop. It's a shitty vicious circle.

You need a change of mentality and willingness to make some compromises if you want something to change. 

And yeah, it sounded clicheic af, but that's how I see it.*


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## Peter (Feb 27, 2010)

narcissistic said:


> I barely eat much, when I do eat it's mainly binging.
> I drink tea a lot, like 6 cups a day. Either tea or coffee depending on which one I'm addicted to at the time.
> I also drink a lot of coke and pepsi whenever I can, maybe I'll go out and buy some once a week as a treat.
> 
> ...


The reason I asked is because from your previous reply I had the impression that part of your problem is a lack of energy/motivation to actually make the effort to get out and do something. And that lack of energy/motivation can be caused by malnourishment. In your case it's not the quantity of food that is the problem, but rather the quantity of micronutrients. So that means you´re not consuming enough vitamins and minerals.

Improving your micronutrient intake isn't going to solve your problem, but it will improve your energy and motivation to actually start solving your problem. This is not about your weight. This is just about improving your mental energy and with that your motivation to do something. Improving micronutrient intake will reduce all the negativity that you apply (Always finding reasons for not doing things)

Micronutrients can be found in fruits and vegetables. Eat decent amounts of those and you will gain lots of positive mental energy. It will remove that "sloth" mentality.

You think you are this way, but actually this is just the way your brain responds to malnourishment. It's not actually you who is this way.

If you do decide to test this idea, you'll need to eat enough micronutrients on a daily basis for at least a month to really be able to tell the difference. Your brain isn't going to respond differently because of 1 healthy meal. It takes about 3 weeks before the body and brain get used to a new situation and thus it will take about a month before you will really notice how much better you feel.

One healthy meal a day isn't enough. That will just cause spikes in your micronutrient levels. To do it right, every meal needs a reasonable amount of micronutrients so that the micronutrient levels in your body stay above a reasonable minimum level 24 hours a day.

Just to be clear,.... I'm not saying you should go on a diet or anything like that. The only goal is to improve your micronutrient levels. It's not that difficult and if you do it right, success is 100% certain. You will feel 1000 times better after a month. In fact, you will be amazed by how big the effect of micronutrients is on your mental energy levels.

I really hope you will give this a shot and then report back to us in here after a month to tell how it went.


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## Eset (Jun 7, 2016)

Peter said:


> * *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sounds interesting, however I'm quite skeptical on it.
Seems too simple to cause such a complex problem, but I suppose that's how most problems start.

I'll give it a shot (lmao, sounds like I'm doing something special even though it should be mandatory) and push myself to remember to eat correctly.


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## AutonomyCrusader (Jul 18, 2016)

narcissistic said:


> I don't care for such since I am one myself so I expect everyone else to be. It's called being cynical.
> I think everyone is interesting in their own regards, but not everyone is useful.
> 
> Conclusion is that I don't ignore people because I don't find them interesting but more so is that I don't see a use for them.
> ...


HAHAHA I broke my thought process down to that level before in a discussion with an INFJ. It was hilarious because he couldn't argue against the fact that everyone does it whether they want to admit it or not. 

If someone has zero use, or perceived to be zero use, I ignore them completely. I might also pay attention from side lines here and there before concluding my assessment. You are right, some people are interesting enough to have no "use" but they are still useful because they are entertaining. Sometimes just talking to someone provides enough evidence for a theory that I have. So it really just depends. 

I struggle with hating people and yet "needing" them for certain things. Although lately, now that I've developed my Fe more, I am getting very good at using people as pawns for my advantage without them even knowing it. I don't seek people out, but if they insist on being around me, then I make a use for them.


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## Ksara (Feb 13, 2014)

narcissistic said:


> I simply do not want to live (not death, but being healthy).
> I just want to able to sit at home and do nothing whilst someone looks after me and acts as if they're a servant.
> 
> That's my core desire within life. However I do not like that so much since I know it's something I am unable to make a reality.
> ...


Just remember this is my perception of you, which is not the same as who you are.

Yes it would be nice to have someone take care of all the mundane tasks that are considered a 'requirement' of life.
A servant can be a reality, it depends on what you are willing to do (e.g. move country). I prefer the avenue of reducing my life down to the bare essentials and my interests and how I can make this a reality.

Just advice here, even this annoys me but the state ones body is in can affect and influence the mind.
Good health helps to foster a good mental perspective.


"don't do it unless you know you'll succeed 100%" and/or "what's the point?"
Fear of failure? fear of putting in the time/effort for it to just fall apart and become pointless?
I am seeing a perfectionist mindset here.
If you think you will find reasons why you won't succeed 100%.
If you don't think you are able to just do it, however you don't seem to want to rely on your skills of adaption as this makes you vulnerable.

Big question, does this mindset work for you? Are you content with how life is for you? Is this based on your fears? Are your fears real or a true refletion of reality? 
If you are content or in some way comfortable, then it really doesn't matter what I say and no point reading any further as you have no reason to change 



If you want something to change then I can tell you it is possible but your mind will need to be open to the idea of changing ones mindset.

It's starts with challenging you current belief: "don't do it unless you know you'll succeed 100%" and/or "what's the point?"
Why is this true? How did you come to this conclusion?
What I see is that perfection is an unobtainable idea and see the goal for reaching perfection in itself is pointless as it can not truly be achieved.

Now what's the point? Ultimately that is what you decided as you are a being that lives. The point is any endeavorer that gives you a sense of fulfillment/purpose that drives you to keep on surviving. As I see it, the world is not inherent with meaning, it is just a space with processes happening through time. We add our own meaning to the world due to life being finite.
You could instead choose to aim for perfection but see the journey (that is your success and failures, what they teach you, what you learn about yourself on this journey) rather than the goal itself as the point. It's ultimately up to you.


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## Eset (Jun 7, 2016)

Ksara said:


> Big question, does this mindset work for you? Are you content with how life is for you? Is this based on your fears? Are your fears real or a true refletion of reality?
> If you are content or in some way comfortable, then it really doesn't matter what I say and no point reading any further as you have no reason to change


It used to work like up until now, I didn't think much of it or question myself.
Now that I'm aware of my actions and behaviour it has started to backfire on me I suppose.

I suppose it would be best to go back to being ignorant, but now it's out there it's hard to ignore.
That fact I've being doing this my whole life so far (18 years) somewhat proves that it works and should continue to work.

I think this sort of negative reaction of myself has been triggered from my age, as in now that I'm 18 I have to think about leaving home and being independent.
Before hand I didn't have to worry about much because I had my mum to depend on, so I suppose I fear losing that dependability from her.

I would say this sort of image has developed near to the end of my college years where I'd wish I had some sort of disease or accident meaning I would die by natural causes so I didn't have to deal with the responsibilities I would have to face living alone. As if it was a "get out of life free card" in which I didn't have to feel guilty that I was being selfish towards my mum for killing myself.

This stems down to my mum's unfortunate mistake of helping me too much throughout my childhood where I never learnt to look after myself, and so now that I'm coming closer and closer towards the time of having to be "free" from her I've sort of panicked of losing her and having to find someone to replace her. 

I just wish I could go back to being a child.

Conclusion in simple terms. If I'm going to leave my mum then I'm going to need someone like her to replace her. Otherwise I'm going to have to do it the hard way in which I'll most likely won't and end up being homeless and eventually die of starvation or something lol.

Btw I'm not actually like "close" to my mum, it's just in her nature to look after me even if I don't thank her for it.
Now that the cringe is over...

Anyways I know what your answer is going to be, so I agree.
Just thought I'd let you know since you seemed curious. 



> It's starts with challenging you current belief: "don't do it unless you know you'll succeed 100%" and/or "what's the point?"
> Why is this true? How did you come to this conclusion?


I don't think too hard on my conclusions, it just sort of happens.
All of my conclusions are not firm as in I've not always thought like "don't do it unless you know you'll succeed 100%" and/or "what's the point?". Those are just what seems to make sense after 10 mins of thinking why I am like that. In which case I might change my mind later because I've developed a better conclusion instead. That's how I get my answers.

In a day or so I might change this conclusion:

* *




"Conclusion in simple terms. If I'm going to leave my mum then I'm going to need someone like her to replace her. Otherwise I'm going to have to do it the hard way in which I'll most likely won't and end up being homeless and eventually die of starvation or something lol."



Sort of why even if I seem to know the answer I'd rather other people judge and perceive of what it could be since I'm highly likely going to change my answers anyways.


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## Ksara (Feb 13, 2014)

narcissistic said:


> It used to work like up until now, I didn't think much of it or question myself.
> Now that I'm aware of my actions and behaviour it has started to backfire on me I suppose.
> 
> I suppose it would be best to go back to being ignorant, but now it's out there it's hard to ignore.
> ...


You know my answer? 

Simply put, you are growing up and as such your awareness is expanding. It will continue to grow so moving back to ignorance may not be so easy. And with awareness, there is the expansion of what you don't yet know. 

I don't however understand the pressure of your situation. Are you expected to leave home and live on your own being of age? Or is this a pressure you are placing on yourself?
Because I can't really see your mum suddenly to stop taking care of you. If it's in her nature to look after you even if you are makeing a life for yourself she is very likely to still want to parent you in the way she knows how. Mum's don't usually stop being mum's in my experience. And you know, it sounds like you mum knows a lot about looking after people. I'm sure she has the knowledge for how to look after ones self if you ask.



I think I see your fear of failure here. To depend on someone removes any responsibility of your own actions so you can not be responsible for your own failures. That could be why you are struggling to find the drive to be independent.

Where does this fear originate for you? Was their a time in your life you attempted something and were faced with harsh consequences? You don't need to answer the questions if I'm prying to much. It's more beneficial for you to think about and come to a personal understanding.


As for your perceived future challenge ahead. 
What can you do to enable yourself? 
What do you have control over?
What can you do now to prepare yourself? 
What can you change, and more importantly what changes do you want to make?
What steps can you take to make an independent adult a satisfactory reality?
What's going to give you more fulfillment and satisfaction, living as an independent adult or being homeless and eventually dying?




> I don't think too hard on my conclusions, it just sort of happens.
> All of my conclusions are not firm as in I've not always thought like "don't do it unless you know you'll succeed 100%" and/or "what's the point?". Those are just what seems to make sense after 10 mins of thinking why I am like that. In which case I might change my mind later because I've developed a better conclusion instead. That's how I get my answers.
> 
> In a day or so I might change this conclusion:
> ...


I see. I can relate. Sometimes things just come to mind that just make sense. What I have learnt these light bulb moments aren't always correct or true. other times they really do draw an underlying interconnectedness between things.
As more information and knowledge becomes apparent my answers can change haha. Unfortunately in truth that could make it just as reliable (or less) than your conclusions.


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## Peter (Feb 27, 2010)

narcissistic said:


> Sounds interesting, however I'm quite skeptical on it.
> Seems too simple to cause such a complex problem, but I suppose that's how most problems start.
> 
> I'll give it a shot (lmao, sounds like I'm doing something special even though it should be mandatory) and push myself to remember to eat correctly.


I didn't say it was the cause of the problem. What I tried to say was that it's a first step towards solving the problem.

And don't think it's easy because it seems so simple. Eating enough vegetables, fruit (and perhaps also a bit more protein) isn't an easy change to make. If it would be easy, obesity wouldn't exist. But once you made the change and are comfortable with it, it's relatively easy to keep eating good.

And remember, this is not about weight. It's about improving your mental energy/motivation and make it easier to have a more positive look on life.


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