# Exploitation of Women With Borderline Personality Disorder



## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

I was watching My Week With Marilyn, which is beautifully done, and Michelle Williams acted the part very well..she did well with capturing MMs mannerisms, and has a similar body, though in my opinion her face is no where near as pretty (just my personal taste, maybe some people prefer Michelle with her broader features and fuller lips)...

Anyway point being, I think about Marilyn Monroe quite a bit and the disgusting way she was exploited by nearly everyone who knew her, and still is to this day, I found myself appalled in a thread here debating her WEIGHT, when it was something she struggled with.

But yes this film made her BPD painfully obvious, but I was also annoyed with Colin himself for his exploitative DELUSION about this mentally disturbed woman who was clearly doing nothing.more than clinging to him because she felt abandoned by her husband...this isn't a love story. It's a sad tale of a star struck Brit boy playing Captain Save A Ho, because he thought she was a fabulous looking babe.

Marilyn was objectified and never loved, at least not by any of the men in her life. I was disappointed by the way the film ends, he really should have had a little more class and adult perspective all these years later about what went on for a week when he was 23.

Then I start researching MM and her BPD and run across an article about how hot women with BPD are because they have "no real sense of self" among other things.

Obviously if BPD was really that attractive, the relationship would last, which is a nearly fucking impossible thing to do when you are sexually objectifying a person who has trouble with keeping stable relationship to begin with.

*my ex has BPD and he is a man, just thought I would put that in before the haters start looking for some reason this thread is more offensive to men than the women IN OUR PARTICULAR CULTURE being exploited


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## monemi (Jun 24, 2013)

I got lost, what's the question?


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## conscius (Apr 20, 2010)

Yeah same as above not sure what your question is but from your post I get the sense you are upset that women with BPD don't get treated in a caring and respectful way, and instead get objectified and are generally misunderstood.

I think there are many instances where that's true. Even when they do attract mature and understanding people, it can still be difficult to love them the way they need to, because sometimes that need is too deep and also sometimes their behavior or "clinginess" actually pushes their partners away or creates a negative reaction in them. This of course does not mean they must accept objectification and disrespect. Never! Though the kind of love needed may be hard to come by, the respect must be a constant in any of their relationships.


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## monemi (Jun 24, 2013)

conscius said:


> Yeah same as above not sure what your question is but from your post I get the sense you are upset that women with BPD don't get treated in a caring and respectful way, and instead get objectified and are generally misunderstood.
> 
> I think there are many instances where that's true. Even when they do attract mature and understanding people, it can still be difficult to love them the way they need to, because sometimes that need is too deep and also sometimes their behavior or "clinginess" actually pushes their partners away or creates a negative reaction in them. This of course does not mean they must accept objectification and disrespect. Never! Though the kind of love needed may be hard to come by, the respect must be a constant in any of their relationships.


Not to say they should be objectified. But I'm not imagining myself drawn this kind of person.


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## iloveusarita (Nov 9, 2013)

It depends. psychologists and their ilk only seek to control and dominate, it's common fact


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## Snakecharmer (Oct 26, 2010)

One of my acquaintances on Facebook posted a meme of MM a few days ago. She commented that people shouldn't glorify her because she had affairs with married men (and she babbled on about some other stuff MM supposedly did).

I told her to look more deeply into MM's life. The poor woman was used and manipulated, and I believe she was murdered.


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## DeductiveReasoner (Feb 25, 2011)

This makes me really sad.


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## Coburn (Sep 3, 2010)

My guess is the people who say women with BPD are hot because they lack a sense of self have never actually dated anyone with BPD.


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## Doc Dangerstein (Mar 8, 2013)

... I haven't seen the actual film; but I feel terrible for how much abuse she put up with. And I only know fractions of her biography as I was never really interested in film stars. Knowing the company she kept, and how she was just used, the thought of her being murdered did cross my mind. Anyway, BPD.

So. I met this girl in school; she seemed pretty cool to talk to, kinda pretty, yet there was something really off putting about her. A friend of mine suggested the idea of asking her out but for some unknown reason when I'm around her I mention being interested in other girls. That said, she starts telling me about her family problems. Sometimes you WANT to be genuinely considerate except in the end there's nothing you can do but leave. Thank God we never did anything!

I never felt more emotionally drained by anybody; we never hung out much but it took almost an entire year of trying to get this woman to leave me. I really hope she gets help.


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## VeraH (Mar 27, 2013)

If you're as beautiful as Marilyn Monroe and people value you *for your appearance*, it becomes reinforced in your mind that's the quality to base your worth on. This is out of your control, how people view you and judge you. There is a baggage/cost that comes along with physical attractiveness and, sadly, MM was very beautiful. Further, she was *branded* as a sex symbol of her time. Even today, that is what she is known for: her beauty (and a few scandals). 

BPD makes her void inside. Her beauty most definitely would not have helped. You get discriminated (noticed) for being ugly/beautiful, being average gets you unnoticed so you have the freedom to do as you please. Unfortunately for MM, her BPD, I hazzard a guess, probably made it harder for her to work and establish on her internal qualities. 

The poor woman was just an empty shell and society, and those men, expected and viewed her that way. As such, she tried to comply but couldn't bear it. This is just what I think. No one can truly understand MM's mind as no one can be in her shoes.


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## associative (Jul 1, 2013)

It is one of the great ironies of BPD that, as adults, sufferers tend to repeat the pattern of invalidating relationships that they suffered as children. 
A shame, because BPD is highly treatable and, in a caring and validating environment, sufferers are likely to recover on their own.

I know this because my partner has BPD. She was high-functioning until her breakdown several years ago.
We are way past the worst now, recovery has been slow but distinct.
Putting a name to her disorder helped drastically. (I'll start a thread to discuss this separately when I get time.)

I didn't know MM and Princess Di likely had borderline. I'm sure she'd be interested to know.


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## DeductiveReasoner (Feb 25, 2011)

associative said:


> It is one of the great ironies of BPD that, as adults, sufferers tend to repeat the pattern of invalidating relationships that they suffered as children.
> A shame, because BPD is highly treatable and, in a caring and validating environment, sufferers are likely to recover on their own.
> 
> I know this because my partner has BPD. She was high-functioning until her breakdown several years ago.
> ...


I'm interested in this thread. Let me know when you make it. Thanks!


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## Ravenetta (Oct 23, 2013)

Marlowe said:


> My guess is the people who say women with BPD are hot because they lack a sense of self have never actually dated anyone with BPD.


I didn't read that in the OP. My understanding is that there is an issue that sexually attractive women with BPD are more vulnerable to exploitation than stable, attractive women. There could well be an issue with greater exploitation because of the lack of a sense of self combined with the tendency towards risky behaviors. The premise of this being an issue sounds plausible to me.

There is an underlying principle that individuals who have a vulnerability are made moreso by also possessing something that people desire. One can configure that combination in any way and it tends to result in exploitation. Intelligence combined with a social vulnerability can result in peers taking advantage to cheat, being wealthy, but also elderly makes one more vulnerable to gold diggers, being sexually attractive combined with emotional instability makes one vulnerable to sexual exploitation.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

fia said:


> I didn't read that in the OP. My understanding is that there is an issue that sexually attractive women with BPD are more vulnerable to exploitation than stable, attractive women. There could well be an issue with greater exploitation because of the lack of a sense of self combined with the tendency towards risky behaviors. The premise of this being an issue sounds plausible to me.
> 
> There is an underlying principle that individuals who have a vulnerability are made moreso by also possessing something that people desire. One can configure that combination in any way and it tends to result in exploitation. Intelligence combined with a social vulnerability can result in peers taking advantage to cheat, being wealthy, but also elderly makes one more vulnerable to gold diggers, being sexually attractive combined with emotional instability makes one vulnerable to sexual exploitation.


Yes the idea though is that women with BPD are "especially desirable" I actually read an article which I mention in the OP about the man mentioning how "hot" women with BPD are, and I have heard the adage crazy in the head, crazy in the bed...like emotionally unstable are actually more attractive than emotionally stable women if they both have a similar appearance, the emotionally unstable woman is actually held up as some prize, the woman with no sense of self, to imprint yourself on.

Of course this would mostly appeal to men who are narcissists and sociopaths, obviously, humble emotionally stable men probably aren't getting hard ons for the idea of being able to control a woman with unstable emotions.

And then again we can get so far into what turns people on, and how much that conflicts what is not only "politically correct" but even good for the person's own well being. For example, I am attracted to people with narcissistic tendencies.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Snakecharmer said:


> One of my acquaintances on Facebook posted a meme of MM a few days ago. She commented that people shouldn't glorify her because she had affairs with married men (and she babbled on about some other stuff MM supposedly did).
> 
> I told her to look more deeply into MM's life. The poor woman was used and manipulated, and I believe she was murdered.


That's why she's so easy to "love." People with cluster B personality disorders, especially BPD and histrionics, have really wide open boundaries where they share themselves and don't protect themselves enough, and as a result, may also be invasive to other people's space. It's realy easy to identify with and love someone who gives out so much of themselves. It's also very easy to hurt and demean such a person, and my feeling is that in our culture, there is a tendency for some reason, for men in particular, to take advantage of women who have these traits. Like exploiting or using such women instead of protecting them. 

I've also seen an undue amount of hostility towards women with BPD from men, versus men with BPD on on-line forums, which I find strange, because men are actually more likely to be violent (socialization and testosterone) though a smaller percentage of women with BPD are violent. Men with both BPD and bipolar disorder are more likely to express emotional instability through violence. So why women receive this "label" of being more unstable or unpredictable or dangerous than men is really bothersome to me.

Though I probably should consider the fact that there are more damaged/mentally ill people on-line than I encounter on a daily basis face-to-face, and maybe some of these men are just expressing narcissistic frustration that an unstable gf messied up their day, I don't know, because it conflicts with the old fashioned idea of women being subservient, seen and not heard.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

VeraH said:


> If you're as beautiful as Marilyn Monroe and people value you *for your appearance*, it becomes reinforced in your mind that's the quality to base your worth on. This is out of your control, how people view you and judge you. There is a baggage/cost that comes along with physical attractiveness and, sadly, MM was very beautiful. Further, she was *branded* as a sex symbol of her time. Even today, that is what she is known for: her beauty (and a few scandals).
> 
> BPD makes her void inside. Her beauty most definitely would not have helped. You get discriminated (noticed) for being ugly/beautiful, being average gets you unnoticed so you have the freedom to do as you please. Unfortunately for MM, her BPD, I hazzard a guess, probably made it harder for her to work and establish on her internal qualities.
> 
> The poor woman was just an empty shell and society, and those men, expected and viewed her that way. As such, she tried to comply but couldn't bear it. This is just what I think. No one can truly understand MM's mind as no one can be in her shoes.


I am very uncomfortable with people with BPD being referred to as "a void inside." Just because they experience feelings of emptiness doesn't mean they are "void inside." It means they experienced loss so profound as children usually (through abandonment, severe physical abuse or molestation usually) that they constantly feel loss and need MOAR ATTENTION, MOAR ALL THE TIME, and their need can actually be seductive (my ex has BPD) because they make you feel like they will literally die without you. They fear being abandoned again, or being hurt again, so ironically invite occasions of hurt and rejection by scaring other people away with suicide threats and possessive clinginess, which can devolve into things like following people around, making baseless accusations and threats, acting out abusively when feeling rejected (even if the rejection is partially imaginary, like my ex throwing a shampoo bottle at me once because I came home 30 minutes late from an early evening church event with a friend)...the person with BPD sees everything as a possible threat to separation of an almost fetal/mother bond of emotional survival...so it takes sexual love to an obsessive and disturbing level that is both addictive and extremely off-putting.

But they aren't void inside. They have personalities. Being void inside is mental retardation.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

I also want to mention I am not here to debate whether MM was murdered or not, because I think she was "murdered" either way..through either active or passive hand. Through either active first degree murder (and it was first degree because it had such whisper traces to be debatable, second or third degree murder would show more obvious signs of passion) ...or callous disregard for her as a human being. Literally sexually objectifying her to death, using her as a sex object, no use for her or consideration for her emotional needs as a human being, driving a person with BPD to suicide. You can't ever be fully responsible for another person's decision to end their life, but if you know you are dealing with a very vulnerable, emotionally unstable person who has strong feelings for you and treat them roughly and with lack of consideration (and Kennedy was really a hard cold man when it came to women, I don't think some people even know the depths of his womanizing, Jackie O was probably an E3 who prided herself on being the steadfast, forgiving desired ornament) ...


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## DAPHNE XO (Jan 16, 2012)

fourtines said:


> Yes the idea though is that women with BPD are "especially desirable" I actually read an article which I mention in the OP about the man mentioning how "hot" women with BPD are, and I have heard the adage crazy in the head, crazy in the bed...like emotionally unstable are actually more attractive than emotionally stable women if they both have a similar appearance, *the emotionally unstable woman is actually held up as some prize, the woman with no sense of self, to imprint yourself on.*


Ew.

But to be honest, I can see why that is. A woman with BPD will always present herself to people as someone who needs help or she'll be incredibly flirtatious and seductive.
Many insecure men get off on the idea that a woman needs them so that she can feel complete. It's the ultimate power trip.

What these guys don't realise though, is that they can _never_ save women with BPD. Their need is too deep and their self-defence mechanisms too strong. It'll just be one clusterfuck of a dysfunctional relationship..............

But like I said, it's also the ultimate power trip.



> Of course this would mostly appeal to men who are narcissists and sociopaths, obviously,* humble emotionally stable men probably aren't getting hard ons for the idea of being able to control a woman with unstable emotions.*
> 
> And then again we can get so far into what turns people on, and how much that conflicts what is not only "politically correct" but even good for the person's own well being. For example, I am attracted to people with narcissistic tendencies.


Lol I wrote the first bit of my reply before reading that bolded bit.

But the thing to note also about women with BPD is, they actually seek relationships in which they are invalidated. It's all they know and for some strange reason... prefer to stick with.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

JungleDelRey said:


> Ew.
> 
> But to be honest, I can see why that is. A woman with BPD will always present herself to people as someone who needs help or she'll be incredibly flirtatious and seductive.
> Many insecure men get off on the idea that a woman needs them so that she can feel complete. It's the ultimate power trip.
> ...


No that's not true. My ex had BPD and I constantly validated him, and I think some women with BPD with narcissistic features actually find men who support them and may actually treat them very well. The flirtatious/seductive trait is actually Histrionic Personality Disorder, some women (or men) with BPD are strange hollow souls who act in a very bizarre manner (Jeffrey Dahmer et al, Theresa Knorr dressed in all black and proclaimed Satanism in the years leading up to the murder of her two oldest daughters) ...I am convinced also I knew a woman with SEVERE BPD in my younger days and her bf was a "nice guy" who was "quiet" and "nerdy" (probably an ISFJ or INTP as far as I could examine him in my memory) and he was a virgin when he met her, and wanted to protect her but possess her.


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## DAPHNE XO (Jan 16, 2012)

fourtines said:


> No that's not true. My ex had BPD and I constantly validated him, and I think some women with BPD with narcissistic features actually find men who support them and may actually treat them very well. The flirtatious/seductive trait is actually Histrionic Personality Disorder, some women (or men) with BPD are strange hollow souls who act in a very bizarre manner (Jeffrey Dahmer et al, Theresa Knorr dressed in all black and proclaimed Satanism in the years leading up to the murder of her two oldest daughters) ...I am convinced also I knew a woman with SEVERE BPD in my younger days and her bf was a "nice guy" who was "quiet" and "nerdy" (probably an ISFJ or INTP as far as I could examine him in my memory) and he was a virgin when he met her, and wanted to protect her but possess her.


I thought you said your ex was narcissistic? Or perhaps that was another one?

Ah I meant the severely dysfunctional women (***in their interpersonal relationships***) with BPD, MM being the example... There are some BPD women who are really power-hungry and maybe that's what makes them seek out these kinds of abusive relationships?


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

JungleDelRey said:


> I thought you said your ex was narcissistic? Or perhaps that was another one?
> 
> Ah I meant the severely dysfunctional women with BPD, MM being the example... There are some BPD women who are really power-hungry and maybe that's what makes them seek out these kinds of abusive relationships?


ISTJ probably/possibly narcissistic, ESFJ most definitely BPD...I was with ESFJ for six years and he was the deep black hole of emotional need, it's like being caught in a vortex where nothing is ever good enough (that's why people grow to hate partners or parents with BPD, because nothing you ever do ever makes them feel secure enough) ...he had a very strange childhood where his parents got drunk and fought a lot and he played in trash dumpsters, and had a very "gilded" West Los Angeles childhood (his maternal grandfather invented some computer gadget and was a bona fide genius, and his father was also a business owner) that got reduced suddenly into the severe gawdy poverty of drug addled trailer park Las Vegas, he believes his mother was a cocaine addict, and she later most definitely had a gambling problem, in which she gambled away the family savings among other things, in retribution for his father's violent outbursts. He was labelled troubled as early as kindergarten, his father kicked him when he was eight and pointed a loaded shot gun at him at sixteen; at thirteen he actually knocked some kids teeth out with a hammer. Despite all of this he is still one of the most interesting, intelligent, steady, "planted in location" people I have ever known (virtue of SJ there probably as a defense mechanism to life) ...he was also extremely affectionate, demonstrative, loving, constantly spent time with me..."the perfect boyfriend"...people with BPD often have this character trait, of being the perfect partner, because they so badly need someone else to fulfill them and don't want to be abandoned, then later become abusive, in fact one of the traits is sweeping women off their feet in men, later to become a possessive abuser. 

But something about it bothered me even in the beginning. I thought it was me.


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## DAPHNE XO (Jan 16, 2012)

fourtines said:


> ISTJ probably/possibly narcissistic, ESFJ most definitely BPD...I was with ESFJ for six years and he was the deep black hole of emotional need, it's like being caught in a vortex where nothing is ever good enough (that's why people grow to hate partners or parents with BPD, because nothing you ever do ever makes them feel secure enough) ...he had a very strange childhood where his parents got drunk and fought a lot and he played in trash dumpsters, and had a very "gilded" West Los Angeles childhood (his maternal grandfather invented some computer gadget and was a bona fide genius, and his father was also a business owner) that got reduced suddenly into the severe gawdy poverty of drug addled trailer park Las Vegas, he believes his mother was a cocaine addict, and she later most definitely had a gambling problem, in which she gambled away the family savings among other things, in retribution for his father's violent outbursts. He was labelled troubled as early as kindergarten, his father kicked him when he was eight and pointed a loaded shot gun at him at sixteen; at thirteen he actually knocked some kids teeth out with a hammer. Despite all of this he is still one of the most interesting, intelligent, steady, "planted in location" people I have ever known (virtue of SJ there probably as a defense mechanism to life) ...he was also extremely affectionate, demonstrative, loving, constantly spent time with me..."the perfect boyfriend"...people with BPD often have this character trait, of being the perfect partner, because they so badly need someone else to fulfill them and don't want to be abandoned, then later become abusive, in fact one of the traits is sweeping women off their feet in men, later to become a possessive abuser.
> 
> But something about it bothered me even in the beginning. I thought it was me.


Are you still in contact with that ex?


BPD fascinates me, I've read tonnes and tonnes on it....


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

@JungleDelRey

I think the problem with MM also is that she actually had histrionic rather than narcissistic features, giving her an over-sexualized presence and a childlike vulnerability and hysteria. She was attracted to "father figures" (probably because of her lack of one) but was actually quite promiscuous and constantly sought validation from men, who essentially used her as a sex object and she apparently had a hard time being "loved"...however, Joe DiMaggio actually put roses on her grave every year until he died....honestly I think possibly no one ever made her feel secure enough, and she was demanding, needing, acted out, was possessive and unreasonable...

Yes, I agree Monroe sought out invalidation but also validation, but when she had validation likely pushed it away (much like my ex did) ...in this vein, I have a hard time justifying the exploitation of these people. MM grew up in foster homes and was molested and abused and married to get away at sixteen, had a severely mentally ill mother and no father figure. 

Yes, I know they are ass pains and that you can surely be victims to them, but calling them "hot" or intentionally making them objects of derision, scorn or sexual objectification is really disgusting, given the circumstances that usually creates their personality disorder.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

JungleDelRey said:


> Are you still in contact with that ex?
> 
> 
> BPD fascinates me, I've read tonnes and tonnes on it....


No I absolutely do not any longer speak to him.


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## DAPHNE XO (Jan 16, 2012)

fourtines said:


> @JungleDelRey
> 
> I think the problem with MM also is that she actually had histrionic rather than narcissistic features, giving her an over-sexualized presence and a childlike vulnerability and hysteria. She was attracted to "father figures" (probably because of her lack of one) but was actually quite promiscuous and constantly sought validation from men, who essentially used her as a sex object and she apparently had a hard time being "loved"...however, Joe DiMaggio actually put roses on her grave every year until he died....honestly I think possibly no one ever made her feel secure enough, and she was demanding, needing, acted out, was possessive and unreasonable...
> 
> ...


This is so true. BPD does usually co-occur with other PDs.

The problem is, BPD is treatable, it's just a lot of people with BPD are very resistant to the therapy procedure or make it very difficult for the therapist.


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## 626Stitch (Oct 22, 2010)

It dousn't take a genious to figure out how you can turn a womens personality disorder into really hot sex. But it's a very cold thing to do, however you try and rationalize it.


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## Scrabbletray (Apr 27, 2014)

I think there are two type of men who are "attracted" to women with BPD or HPD and they come from completely different angles so it's not really fair to even try to lump them together. The first is the type of guy the OP was referring to who look at people with these sorts of personality disorders as "easy targets" due to the characteristics of these diseases making people who suffer from them more easily manipulated than normal. I wouldn't say these people have any sort of romantic attraction to people with BPD, only that they have spotted an easy victim. The second group actually do have some sort of romantic attraction to people with BPD for whatever reason. I'll just go ahead and admit I fall into that second group. I'm not really sure I would classify it as finding people with BPD as "hot", actually if you asked me I find them annoying, but for whatever reason I seem to fall in love with them over and over to my own detriment. I couldn't really put a good reason on it though. My sister would try to explain it with some sort of pseduo-Freudian explanation due to my mother having BPD, but I doubt that since my mother is literally the only person in the entire world I can legitimately say I hate. If I had to explain it I would just say that people with BPD are "interesting" whereas most people are all more or less the same and just bore me. That said, being in love with someone with BPD is somewhere between incredibly frustrating and completely impossible. I don't mean to sound crass, but it's incredibly emotionally draining to be in love with someone who is more or less a bottomless pit of emotional need that you can never fill no matter how much you want to and even one tiny slip up can cause "splitting" where without warning they suddenly hate your guts. Just in general I don't know how one can really find the correct way to love someone with mental illness. On one hand people always say if you love them then you will stand by them despite their illness, but on the other hand people also always say if you love yourself you won't stay with someone who keeps hurting you. Given as many illnesses cause the person suffering from them to lash out against those who love them it's hard to ever know where the right balance is, especially when this lashing out can become physical.

I don't really know any answers, I just know that in my life I've been extremely frustrated by the fact that all the colloquialisms about love completely contradict each other and people's views are completely logically inconsistent. Not to get too off topic, but it seems like there are completely different sets of rules for "attractive" people and "unattractive" people, for "alpha" males and "beta" males, for "neurotypical" people and "mentally ill" people etc. It's so confusing, I never know WTF I'm supposed to do to be a good guy and what would make me a jerk.


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