# Change in Order of Tritype



## Cassieopeia (Jan 9, 2012)

Do you believe that it's possible for someone's core type to change to another one in their tritype as the individual matures? I've been pondering this recently.

I have an example. My best friend, I've known him for a few years. He was friends with my brother at first (a Seven). His friend was blunt, kinda rude, very destructive (of property and such), _spontaneous as fuck_, haha. I see Seven when I look back on him. However, he went through a _huge_ change in his personality in such a short amount of time. It was likely gradual, but the difference is remarkable. He's a clear One: extremely idealistic, rational, and self-controlled. There were no dramatic events in his life--he simply matured and realized, but I've never seen such a big change in a person before. During his "change", he and my brother drifted apart, and he and I became closer. We had more in common. He said that I had some influence on him. His other new friends, I'm not sure if they're friends _because_ he changed or if the new friends had influence on his "new" personality... allowing him to "become" his One side. (I don't mean to say that Sevens can't be mature Sevens. I know they can, but my friend is just so far off from that type now.) He obviously had One in him before and still has Seven in him now; this really perplexes me though.

Do you think that core types can change (especially in the transitions from childhood to adolescence or adolescence to adulthood)? Have you seen anything similar happen?


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## RepairmanMan Man (Jan 21, 2012)

My sister was more 9-ish/2-ish as a child, but after hitting puberty, she's become more obvious as a 4. So yes, I've seen these personality changes. I also remember being very 9-ish myself till about the age of five. I personally feel that type is inborn and biological, but that doesn't mean we always exhibit this in an obvious manner at an early age.

Sandra Maitri hypothesizes we all have a "soul child" (our integration point) that we all experienced as younger children and need to learn to reclaim. I don't know if that's quite what you're touching on here, but worth a thought.

Btw, your friend isn't and ESTP, is he? It's commonly associated with type 7 and 7-behaviors, but can actually commonly occur with type 1.


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## Cassieopeia (Jan 9, 2012)

holyrockthrower said:


> My sister was more 9-ish/2-ish as a child, but after hitting puberty, she's become more obvious as a 4. So yes, I've seen these personality changes. I also remember being very 9-ish myself till about the age of five. I personally feel that type is inborn and biological, but that doesn't mean we always exhibit this in an obvious manner at an early age.
> 
> Sandra Maitri hypothesizes we all have a "soul child" (our integration point) that we all experienced as younger children and need to learn to reclaim. I don't know if that's quite what you're touching on here, but worth a thought.
> 
> Btw, your friend isn't and ESTP, is he? It's commonly associated with type 7 and 7-behaviors, but can actually commonly occur with type 1.


Maybe your sister seemed Two-ish as a disintegrating Four? Just a thought

I feel like I used to be more Two-like as a kid, but those behaviors could have been my sx instinct without maturity. I was very clingy and a bit needy, and I've learned to control it a lot, 'cause that was just... immature. Lol

Huh so would my "soul child" be Three? I dunno. I feel like I was way more lazy when I was younger. The only thing I was passionate about achieving was reading every book I could get my hands on... although I was more fervent about that then... but omg, One integrates to Seven! That would make so much sense for him.

He's an INFP.


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## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

@_holyrockthrower_ @_Cassieopeia_

The soul child by Maitri is a different approach to integration, I believe. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but she talks about how when you grow healthier, you're allowing your soul child to grow, which is the part of your personality you always repress and never allow to develop. For example, the 8's soul child is 2.


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## voicetrocity (Mar 31, 2012)

@_kaleidoscope_
@_holyrockthrower
_
If I remember correctly, it's a combination of both. Your "soul child" is the part of yourself that you've let go to defenses* you've built up. Integration happens, first, when you reclaim that soul child; and then, through embracing it, letting it grow more into a part of you and lowering those "defenses"* you've built up. 

Not verbatim from the book, but that's what I took away from it.

*"Defenses" in this relating to the development of ones core type.


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## Inguz (Mar 10, 2012)

@Cassieopeia This is a very interesting topic. I don't think that a person can change their Enneagram type. What they can do however, is to adopt counterpassion, and in the instance of 7 it's Austerity, meaning excessive self-control. Does the following quote sound like your friend?



> *Seven: Austerity*
> The passion of Sevens is gluttony. The counterpassion is a caricature of the virtue of sobriety or temperance. Sevens may then practice excessive self-control. They want to appear to be serious. They don't allow themselves any joy or rest. They limit their mental capacities, by either underusing them or focalizing them too much. They are proud of this seriousness that gives them a sort of masochistic happiness. The passion of gluttony appears as an excess of control. More is better: the battle cry of Sevens is still present, only now its focus has changed.
> 
> Source: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/content.php/272-Enneagram-Passions-and-Counterpassions


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## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

@voicetrocity

Yup, you got it right ^^



> Our soul child is a part of our consciousness that was arrested in its development when we were very young, and so it did not mature with the rest of us and therefore feels experientially like a part of us that is a child. It is not simply a younger version of ourselves as we are now; it is the part of us which as we shall see are those of our heart point - were not acceptable for one reason or another within our childhood environment, and so we learned to suppress these aspects of ourselves.
> 
> (...)
> 
> Because these qualities were not allowed or encouraged, we suppressed them and developed our enneatype in counterpoint to them. Our type then, functions in such a way as to suppress our heart point*.


*heart point = integration point.


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## Shadowlight (Dec 12, 2012)

Inguz said:


> @_Cassieopeia_ This is a very interesting topic. I don't think that a person can change their Enneagram type. What they can do however, is to adopt counterpassion, and in the instance of 7 it's Austerity, meaning excessive self-control. Does the following quote sound like your friend?


The link you posted is not allowing people from my country of origin to access it. I tried buying the Maitri ebook recently and I was told the same thing that it's not available to people where I live. Talk about restricting access to knowledge.

Anyways, I would really appreciate it if you, or anyone else could kindly take the time to copy/paste that article for me via PM. 

@_Inguz_ - Can counter-passions be integrated into a healthy part of ones life, or are they part of average/unhealthy behaviour and remain as such for the rest of our lives?


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## Inguz (Mar 10, 2012)

@Shadowlight For me personally I didn't really become counterphobic until my teens, where my unhealthy cp6 patterns really blossomed. The driving force behind the counterpassion is still the passion of each type.

Here's the whole article:

* *





*Enneagram: Passions and Counterpassions*​

People are expressing their counterpassion if they are:


 Living in their passion
 Not conscious of their passion and denying it openly
 Behaving in a manner contrary to the attitude which would be induced by their passion
 Attaching a positive value to these behaviors. They may confuse counterpassion and integration, especially if they know the Enneagram and assume these behaviors resemble the virtue aspect of their type

_Some brief examples of the counterpassions of the nine Enneagram types:_

*One: Renouncement*
The passion of Ones is anger. The counterpassion of Ones is a caricature of the virtue of patience; in these moments, Ones want to be tolerant, neutral, and objective. They let others get away with errors. They think they are indulgent, magnanimous and understanding of others. Nevertheless, Ones notice errors, which shows that they are still being judgmental. Anger bubbles up inside them even if they are not aware of it. Ones' counterpassion is close to, if not equivalent to, its principal defense mechanism, reaction-formation, and consequently is one of the most thoroughly discussed counterpassions in classic type descriptions.

*Two: Self-effacing*
The passion of Twos is pride. The counterpassion is a caricature of the virtue of humility. In these moments, Twos want to keep themselves in the background and say that they are nothing much. For example, they might affirm that their assistance was only a small act of helpfulness among many others. They can also insist that what others bring to them is richer than their contribution, or that the love they give does not come from them, that they are merely a channel for love. Pride is there, of course, and the Twos did nothing but refocus the attention: it is not about being proud of the assistance that they bring, but of their false humility.

*Three: Self-restraint*
The passion of Threes is deceit. The counterpassion is a caricature of the virtue of truth in which Threes try to appear reserved and discrete. When in counterpassion, Threes do not exhibit their achievements or they down-play them; they center their attention and their interest on the other. Threes may consider themselves shy, or others may perceive them as shy. In reality, this reserved approach regarding success and competence is an unconscious action to lower expectations and thereby avoid failure, or minimize its possible effects.

*Four: Self-sufficiency*
The passion of Fours is envy. The counterpassion is a caricature of the virtue of contentment. At that time, Fours want to appear self-sufficient. They claim to be satisfied with who they are and what they have. What others have that they lack is hence useless, devoid of interest and they are happy to do without. In French literature, there is a famous fable, by Jean de La Fontaine, that describes the counterpassion of the Four and reveals a transparent haughtiness and the persistence of envy.

*Five: Extravagance*
The passion of Fives is avarice. The counterpassion is a caricature of the virtue of unselfishness. Then Fives want to appear generous. They will give an enormous amount of information about their subject of interest, holding mini-conferences about almost any situation. Avarice is there, however, because they manage to give this information to people who do not desire it and, thus, inevitably will not understand it or use it. Sometimes Fives unconsciously give subtly incomplete or veiled answers.

*Six: Temerity*
The passion of Sixes is fear. The counterpassion is a overcompensation from fear. In these situations, Sixes are harsh; they aggressively face dangers. This is the counterphobic Six so often described in Enneagram literature.

*Seven: Austerity*
The passion of Sevens is gluttony. The counterpassion is a caricature of the virtue of sobriety or temperance. Sevens may then practice excessive self-control. They want to appear to be serious. They don't allow themselves any joy or rest. They limit their mental capacities, by either underusing them or focalizing them too much. They are proud of this seriousness that gives them a sort of masochistic happiness. The passion of gluttony appears as an excess of control. More is better: the battle cry of Sevens is still present, only now its focus has changed.

*Eight: Waryness*
The passion of Eights is excess and the counterpassion is a caricature of the virtue of simplicity. In which case, Eights want to appear careful, measured and decent. They are reticent, hold back their anger; and may choose an ascetic way of life. However, even in these circumstances, Eights continue to go to extremes. An excess of simplicity is still excess. In Eights, the passion-counterpassion duality resembles Ichazo's term for the Eight's dichotomy, hedonist-puritan.

*Nine: Hyperactivity*
The passion of Nines is sloth and the counterpassion is a caricature of the virtue of activity. Nines are then hyperactive, perpetually agitated and overloaded with tasks. Although they often produce quantities of work effectively, idleness is still present: these activities are practical but have the effect that the more Nines do, the more they forget themselves. This counterpassion is one of the first we observed, and we interpreted it at the time that these Nines use work and activities as a means of narcotisation (their principal defense mechanism).

An even more subtle form of Nine's counterpassion is a hyperactive pursuit personal development. Such Nines devour books, workshops, therapists, and gurus. They profess to thirst after self-knowledge; however, they end up spinning their wheels, changing nothing.

N.B. No doubt you will have encountered the Six's counterpassion; it is counterphobia. Clearly someone has decided that all types, not just the Six, have two different elements to them.



*The Story of the "Counter-slothic" 9*​
"Anyways, I smoked some tonight and had a flood of insights about how I'm a 9 and all things that relate to 9. The thing I realized was that the descriptions are completely inaccurate for me, and I have to flip them 180 degrees for them to make sense in relation to me. I've come to the realization that I'm a particular kind of 9 that is not described at all in the literature, which I have given the term "counter-slothic nine." It is exactly as you described. *Counter-slothic 9s focus so much on being aware, and fear not being aware of themselves, that they over-indulge in introspection to the point that they actually become asleep to themselves and living their lives. Introspection becomes a substitute for actually living their lives and showing up and drawing attention to themselves.*

I realized that I am fundamentally connected with my mother, and my psyche has crystallized around the state of merging with mother. My psyche has not fundamentally developed beyond this point. My father represents the world, and was abusive, so my experience is that I could not integrate or relate to the world, so there becomes a retreat into and attachment towards the mother. In my case, this is a strong attachment to the spiritual world, and an avoidance of the material world. The world is viewed as highly threatening to spiritual enlightenment and the peace thereof. There is a tremendous fear of the world at point 6, and the desire to not show up as a full human being at point 3.

I have a deep seated rage and anger, but this rage is directly experienced towards my father, and therefore the world. I was rejected by my father and the world, and thus I also reject the world, directing all my hatred towards it. This is actually unconscious, and I don't express it except through passive aggression of showing the world how empty it is by becoming an equally empty person. 9s don't ever develop a real personality... their fundamental identification is with the nothingness that is the core of the ego. 9s feel that they hardly exist, and so too does the world come to feel that it hardly exists, and has no value.

It's interesting that my father is a 3, because symbolically this portrays how the world of humanity which is also my father is related to my fundamental rejection of showing up as a human being, and becoming a fully formed pearl. The pearl itself rejected me. Perhaps I embodied the pearl at such a young age that my father couldn't handle it and had to destroy my humanity.

I embody the passion of sloth very strongly. I am extremely aware of the things that I need to do, that are necessary and helpful to my growth and enlightenment, but I am fundamentally too lazy and afraid to muster up the action. This is because I am fundamentally afraid of confronting my own nothingness. Becoming awake to my true needs would mean having to confront all the pain of feeling as if I'm not even alive - as if I was a ghost in a shell. I know I need to meditate, to eat better, take care of myself physically, but I don't want to because I feel like I literally am a piece of [blocked due to guideline #4 violation] inside. For me this is very tied in with the sexual instinct, so I feel like I am the most ugly worthless piece of [blocked due to guideline #4 violation] that ever existed. I can't attract the one I need for my completion, and so thus I am fundamentally garbage.

Around the time I was idealizing that girl in high school was exactly the same time that my spiritual ardor was so strong. When I finally realized that I couldn't connect with this unattainable and distant woman whom I believed to be my soul mate, my entire world was crushed. I came to believe that if I can't unite with my soul mate - the other half of my soul - then my life is fundamentally not worth living and I will forever be an empty shell of a person. A hollow fake pearl.

Another element of sloth is that I've maintained an extremely strong connection to the essential realm. I've had deep imitations of the ultimate nature of reality, and the experience on mushrooms revealed to me the ultimate truth of existence, the boundless dimensions, non-duality, quintessence, and the fundamental suchness, oneness, unity, and interconnectivity of the universe. Even though I have these incredibly deep insight into true nature, I'm too lazy to actually live according to my truth. Perhaps this is because I have to fundamentally confront my lack of having a pearl.... the identification that I am not a human being, I am not my body, I am not this existence. I have to confront the nullity of who I am and my entire life, and I'm fundamentally too attached to sex and food and music and movies and video games to realize my true nature. I would prefer to live this relatively comfortable life than to have to face the ultimate pain at the core of my ego. This is a state of complete and utter deficiency - that my soul itself is not good enough to deserve to exist. I don't deserve to be human, I'm not good enough to exist. It is like being the ugliest most wretched being in the universe, with a complete lack of value.

I would actually say that I am hyper aware. Most 9s are described as being the least people aware on the Enneagram. But due to counter-slothia, I am actually the most highly aware type, the one most fundamentally connected to spirit. Counter-slothic nines are afraid of not being aware. *They will do anything within their grasp to become more aware of themselves, except they neglect actually taking action in their lives. Action can be put off till later, as long as introspection and navel gazing is maintained. That's why 9s can be extremely aware and yet avoid what needs to be done. Counter-slothic 9s problems is not a lack of awareness, but an overabundance and over-focus on awareness. They fall asleep to their body, their actions, drawing attention to themselves, and fall asleep to life in general. The problem they have is difficulty taking action in the world and becoming a real person instead of a disembodied spirit.*

Counter-slothic 9s focus so much on how they are different from others rather than on the similarities, because of their alignment to their inner world and the rejection of the outer world. The focus is on disconnection, not relating, not merging, and the frustration of not belonging in the universe. Specifically there is the object relation of how much more awake they are than other people, not seeing how ineffectual and asleep they actually are. There is an identification with the self-image of being aware which is in direct opposition to the actual lack of awareness of their true nature - who they really are.

These 9s have strong intuitions, intimations, visions, and imaginations of objective reality. The problem is they focus more on their imagination of ultimate truth than the action it takes to embody that and live that. They believe they can get there by imagining it more intensely, which takes the focus off of having to take action. *The idea is: the more I imagine enlightenment, the more enlightened and transcendent I can be, and then I don't really have to exist in the world.* 9s become satisfied with their imagination of ultimate existence and fail to actually experience it in an embodied, human way. To take action would be to draw too much attention to themselves, causing them to feel how ugly, unlovable, incapable, decrepit, and worthless they are.

Part of the highly withdrawn, isolating, elitist quality is due to their strong attachment to their inner world and their image of themselves as being superior to the exterior. All the hatred is directed towards the exterior. They then equally experience the world as hateful towards them and their spiritual sensitivity.

Implicit in all this is the 9s soul child at 3. The deep spiritual narcissism, the belief that they are on a higher level than others, the idea of being special, exempt from the rules of everyday life due to their spiritual sensitivity is all a way to absent themselves from living and connecting to the world. 9s don't want to feel how narcissistic they actually are, and so they present the image of not being a person at all, having no identity except for their openness to the universe.

My sexual 9ness is very clear to me now. My desire for ultimate union with the divine is channeled into my sexual instinct. I want a partner to merge with, and I imagine that soul-mate to break open the dawn of living daylight, allowing my to reclaim my connection with the absolute awakening of being.

9s specifically represent the fear of something themselves by maintaining the status quo. On a subconscious level, 9s are aware of their true nature. Due to the sleep of humanity, 9s buy in to this ignorant status quo, and forget who they truly are in order to get along with the ignorance of humanity. These 9s are quite aware of true nature, but are afraid of embodying this and showing it to others, for fear of hurting them, and for fear of disturbing the spiritual ignorance of humanity. 9s would rather pretend that they are less aware of the ultimate nature of reality than they actually are, in order to not draw negative attention to themselves, so they can connect with others and feel as if they are not spiritually alone in a dark and blind world.

There's much, much, more... but I'll stop there for now."


"... The first type of 9 is that which is commonly describe in the literature. This is the externally oriented person who is caught in mechanical automatic behavior, going through life on auto-pilot, and giving little attention to their inner life, and the development of their individual thoughts and feelings. Life is lived in a mundane, physical way, and very little thought is given to the deeper dimensions of life. Bob Ross would be an exemplar of this type of 9.

The second type of 9 is one which is more internally oriented. Attention is directed towards the intellectual and/or emotional life and away from the physical. Being more intuitive, ethereal, and dreamy, this type of 9 may have more trouble with embodiment and spacing out. They often have psychological, intellectual, esoteric, symbolic, mythological, or mystical interests. These types of 9s develop such an interest in the psychic-etheric dimensions of existence that they become out of touch with physical reality. Carl Jung would be an exemplar of this type of 9.

I would term these the somatically and psychically oriented 9, respectively. Or, alluding to the dichotomy within type 6, the slothic and counter-slothic. This is not to say that the second type of 9 is necessarily any "better" or more "advanced" since these 9s can and often do end up going in circles, because the underlying fixation is still running the system.

What both of these 9s share in terms of their character structure is an underlying tendency to not fully embody themselves and the fullness of their being. As if they were one-dimensionally themselves instead of embodying their consciousness in its full dimensionality. There is an "asleepness" to themselves as a fully present individuated being, due to an unconscious identification with being insignificant, worthless, inferior, lacking, and unlovable."

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/content.php/272-Enneagram-Passions-and-Counterpassions


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## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

@Shadowlight

http://personalitycafe.com/enneagram-personality-theory-forum/109513-passion-counterpassion.html

Here you go roud:

PS: Keep in mind that counterpassion is not classic Enneagram literature. It's just that some found it interesting to build on counterphobia.


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## Shadowlight (Dec 12, 2012)

kaleidoscope said:


> @_voicetrocity_
> 
> Yup, you got it right ^^
> 
> *heart point = integration point.


My curiousity is killing me here. Can you describe / post what this means for Type 5? 

When I was a child, my parents marriage was love-less and there was far too much emotion, intrusion and control over each other's lives - which left very little for me except to watch the drama from a detached perspective.

At the same time, my parents energies were directed into the development of my brother. I wanted some sort of a role in my family but I felt un-needed so I developed little sanctuaries for myself and became increasingly private. My presence sparked emotion and heavy emotional displays made me uncomfortable. 

What I ended up doing was become the "knowledge-center" of my family. I read and read and then used what I learnt to spark discussion and debate in the house. Now since I was the one with the knowledge of the subject, it put everyone else at a disadvantage and I could control the flow of conversation easily. This is something I do to this day when I feel similar.

I do think that a lot of what's written about 5's being power-seekers is fairly accurate. I did seek it and found ways to get it. It was more manufactured through pure cerebral intensity and manipulation however.


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## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

@Shadowlight

Would you like me to PM you the description of the 5's soul child & we'll discuss it there?


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## Shadowlight (Dec 12, 2012)

kaleidoscope said:


> @_Shadowlight_
> 
> Would you like me to PM you the description of the 5's soul child & we'll discuss it there?


I would like that. Anything for a little knowledge  But, I must warn you. Once I have what I need, I kinda disappear for extended periods


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## Figure (Jun 22, 2011)

Inguz said:


> @_Shadowlight_ For me personally I didn't really become counterphobic until my teens, where my unhealthy cp6 patterns really blossomed. The driving force behind the counterpassion is still the passion of each type.
> 
> Here's the whole article:
> 
> ...


Cool article. But then the question becomes, as is so frequent with the enneagram.........

What does one do about it?

This always ends up being my frustration with the entire system. You read and think "oh wow, I'm like that" or "yeah, there's something I do," but it stops there. It's as if the system is static, describing what you do in a way that makes it seem so pervasive, to people of all the types, that it's basically not worth the time trying to change. If your type does not change, and your type does this, that, and the other thing, then of what value is knowing what we know?

This is why I despise the enneagram, as acute as it may be.


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## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

LXPilot said:


> What does one do about it?
> 
> This always ends up being my frustration with the entire system. You read and think "oh wow, I'm like that" or "yeah, there's something I do," but it stops there. It's as if the system is static, describing what you do in a way that makes it seem so pervasive, to people of all the types, that it's basically not worth the time trying to change. If your type does not change, and your type does this, that, and the other thing, then of what value is knowing what we know?
> 
> This is why I despise the enneagram, as acute as it may be.


Have you ever read any actual Enneagram theorists? 

Sandra Maitri for instance talks a lot about strategies of growth for every single enneatype, and it makes a lot of sense AND helps. I don't suggest you stick to forums and online information, because you'll miss out on a lot if you do.


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## Shadowlight (Dec 12, 2012)

LXPilot said:


> Cool article. But then the question becomes, as is so frequent with the enneagram.........
> 
> What does one do about it?
> 
> ...


I think this is where I disagree. Out of many of the type based systems I've seen out there, Enneagrams are probably the only ones that have very real growth strategies in place. 

I can tell you from my experience that for me growth did not come till I told everyone to just back off and let me come to terms with my own reality in my own way at my own pace. I took a year off from the world in complete isolation devising and formulating new strategies in my head to come out and when I came out, my experience almost mirrored that which is written about 5's integrating as seen below: 



> *Integration (Five Goes to Healthy Eight)
> *As Fives begin to understand the emotional cost of their self-imposed isolation, they begin to risk deeper, more complete, contact with themselves and with the world. They become more grounded, more in touch with their bodies and their life energy, giving them more confidence and solidity. As this process deepens, integrating Fives naturally begin to express many qualities of the healthy Eight: they demonstrate leadership, courage, practical wisdom, and the willingness to take responsibility. They move from feeling small and powerless to feeling grounded and capable. Their knowledge and insight are then in service to objective needs in their world, and they are sought by others as sources of wisdom, compassion, and quiet strength.


How did I get there? Introspect, understand, learn and gain new expertise with the future in my mind. I learnt about my core competencies, figured out my capabilities (amount of energy) as well as allowed myself to stop minimizing my needs and developing myself into a more well-rounded, assertive individual. 

At this point, however, the integration was achieved on my own without knowledge of the enneagram, but what the enneagram has done for me is provide me with a way of repeating the process, as well as understand how to counter blind-spots and possible regressive behaviours/tendencies. I'm not a worshipper of the enneagram or any personality typing system out there, because there's always that element of nurture / environment which adds much more complexity to the system. However, there's no harm in using it as a blueprint to build upon. 

I also acknowledge all the valid critique out there of the system (which was something I started off with and then really dived into the overall system.) For me, knowing the critiques of the system helped me appreciate the actual system with its flaws as well its merits

No structure can be built without its design and that's what enneagrams give: a basic design/framework to build upon. 

This is just one article that talks in great detail about how to achieve growth as an e-type: 

https://sites.google.com/site/upatel8/personalitytype5

Another thing I did was subscribe to EI's daily e-thought (after I saw @sleepyhead posting them in the 5 section) and started putting them to practice. They send the e-thought to me at 11:00 am my time which is exactly when I have to go to work. So armed with that knowledge, I tend to find a way to put it into practice. 

There are several others online. Yes, the online articles are merely snapshots from lengthier books - but then that means that it's reasonable to assume that the actual books will contain more information on how to achieve real growth.


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## RepairmanMan Man (Jan 21, 2012)

Oh heck. So much happened since I was last on. Anyway, looks like you've got the "soul child" thing worked out, but here's what I was going to say--
@kaleidoscope @voicetrocity and @Cassieopeia

I haven't had the chance to read Maitri yet--not easy to obtain in my country of residence. You guys probably know more about it than me. But--based on what I've gathered elsewhere, I was under the impression Maitri postulates that we essentially begin life as our point of integration. We then develop defenses throughout our childhood to compensate for various normal childhood traumas.

I'm not entirely sure I buy that myself, but it's certainly an interesting thought.


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## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

Yeah @_holyrockthrower_, that's exactly it ^^

I'm not sure I entirely believe it either. I mean, what if someone had very accepting parents that don't really suppress any form of innate behavior? It happens. Plus, any theory based on childhood is immediately something I'm skeptical of, because there is just *so much* variation and so many factors even after the early years. I'm not saying childhood isn't important, but it's not the ONLY thing to take into consideration.


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## RepairmanMan Man (Jan 21, 2012)

kaleidoscope said:


> Yeah @_holyrockthrower_, that's exactly it ^^
> 
> I'm not sure I entirely believe it either. I mean, what if someone had very accepting parents that don't really suppress any form of innate behavior? It happens. *Plus, any theory based on childhood is immediately something I'm skeptical of, because there is just so much variation and so many factors even after the early years.* I'm not saying childhood isn't important, but it's not the ONLY thing to take into consideration.


Yes, I totally agree. Childhood's undoubtedly got an impact on our personalities. Again, I'm of the school of thought that says our personalities are inborn, but I'd be a fool not to acknowledge the upbringing as being a major shaping influence. My parents really were the "no-boundaries", "do whatever you want" types, and I'm pretty sure that's why I remember being really 9ish as a little kid--I had the freedom and safety to do so.


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## sodden (Jul 20, 2009)

kaleidoscope said:


> Yeah @_holyrockthrower_, that's exactly it ^^
> 
> I'm not sure I entirely believe it either. I mean, what if someone had very accepting parents that don't really suppress any form of innate behavior? It happens. Plus, any theory based on childhood is immediately something I'm skeptical of, because there is just *so much* variation and so many factors even after the early years. I'm not saying childhood isn't important, but it's not the ONLY thing to take into consideration.


Yes, I find this really odd, considering my mom is a 1w2 and my dad's a 1w9. Wouldn't that have made me be an uber one, raised in that environment? If anything, my fourness has always been discouraged by my parents. And yet it remains...

But back to the OP, I don't think people change types, but I think people can behave quite differently in childhood than they do as adults. I was talking to my mom about this recently, and she says my personality seemed to be locked in place by around age twelve, although I've always had a very four orientation, I probably just didn't externalize it as much. I think extroverts are more changeable throughout their lives because they are so influenced by external factors, for what it's worth.


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