# Order of Rationality in NTs



## Judas (Aug 11, 2010)

whydeo said:


> Being rational is being consistent with reason. Having reason is to justify or explain an action, event or decision. To have intuition, (internally or externally oriented) is to be able to apprehend or gain insight and the ability to foresee circumstances.
> 
> With that, I feel perhaps having intuition as a dominant function followed by an auxillary thinking function will fit well in the description of being rational (in my own words, practical thinkers).


Haha, entps are the masters of quickly rationalizing everything they do. As for acting deliberatly, rationally and with forethought, i would say the entjs beat us.


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## Abraxas (May 28, 2011)

Cetanu said:


> /thread, please


NO.













This is the best thread, and the people posting in it are the best people.


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## Dark Romantic (Dec 27, 2011)

@PisceanReve: How are we defining 'rational'?


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## CaptainWayward (Jun 8, 2012)

I'm assuming you mean, densest collective of rational moments over a period of time; in which case individuals with Ti / Te / Fe / Fi dom would be at the top of the list. Whether they understand more about the world than the lead intuitive types is up for debate.


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## PisceanReve (Jun 2, 2011)

I'm going off of personal experience for this one. 
I've seen too many INTJs having breakdowns and being unable to see past their own feelings and understand other perspectives in order to cooperate or be practical. INTPs are better, though they ignore their own feelings in the way that many act it out in passive-aggressive ways and then deny any of it. ENTJs...well I haven't met enough to say, but I've heard from ENTJ users here that inferior Fi can really get in the way.
Also in my group of NTs irl, my ENTP friend and I are just the ones who are calm and bring about the end result without letting emotions get in the way, while acknowledging their existence (not that they come up _too _often because we don't get angered or irritated easily).
So tell me if you disagree.

By the way, I love your opinions, thank you for posting! 
Another thing: I'm not saying ALL people of a certain type so don't chew me out about that.


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## HippoHunter94 (Jan 19, 2012)

This is how I see it, and what I've seen from experience. 

(most to least) 
INTP 
INTJ
ENTJ
ENTP


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## INTJellectual (Oct 22, 2011)

Jabberbroccoli said:


> No, no. ENFPs are most certainly the most rational.


Where is @Ringz


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## WishyWashy (Jul 26, 2012)

Jabberbroccoli said:


> No, no. ENFPs are most certainly the most rational.


haha that's like saying INTP's are the most feeling.


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## marckos (May 6, 2011)

1)INTP
2)ENTJ
2)INTJ
4)ENTP------- The irony:wink:


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## INTJellectual (Oct 22, 2011)

Ti-dom with Ne for me is the most rational, therefore INTP. Other NTs use their rationality in different style and in different situations.

Introverted Thinking - (Ti)


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## Jabberbroccoli (Mar 19, 2011)

> haha that's like saying INTP's are the most feeling.


They are! I see INTPs broken down and crying over their failed scientific endeavors all the time!


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## nujabes (May 18, 2012)

I agree with @INTJellectual that the higher Ti appears in the function stack, the more rational the archetype. However, I think an important distinction should be made between rationality and perceptive understanding. Ti might make you rational, but Ne will give you the best breadth of understanding.

Of course this also just serves to prove that NTP's are the best types


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## nujabes (May 18, 2012)

fxckin double post...


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## INTJellectual (Oct 22, 2011)

I just want to add, that with the inferior Fe function of INTP, they always remain cool even in the most stressful of situations and they are not affected and pressured by any whims of society of what they should and should not do. It doesn't cloud their judgement and rationality. They always remain calm and rational, and they always maintain their cool.

However, with Ti-doms with Se in the case of ISTP, they use their thinking to control and be aware of their physical world. That's why they are called Mechanics. It is true. They are street-smarts. They know which is the best route to go, they know what particular part of machine will or will not work, they know if a certain car is of low quality etc...

With INTP's Ti with Ne, just like what @gingertonic said, they have the preciseness of logic and words (Ti) with the breadth of understanding (Ne).


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## Planisphere (Apr 24, 2012)




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## bellisaurius (Jan 18, 2012)

I am amused a bunch of NTs can't agree on what 'rational' means. I can only shudder to think what this means to our pretensions of knowledge more generally.


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

The irony of this thread is A++.


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## INTJellectual (Oct 22, 2011)

I saw some thread in INTP and they said that they are the least NT of the NTs. They think and feel as though they are underrated. Actually they are the NT's NT. Their dominant introverted thinking (Ti) is superb combined with auxiliary extroverted intuition (Ne). Their logic and analysis is exquisite. The only drawback is they tend to be theoretical than taking action. The other 3 NTs are just more action-oriented and goal-driven. ENTPs are more adept at seeing many probabilities at once and then choosing which is the best. The P of those NTPs make them more flexible and more resilient in times of stress. The NTJs take time to cool down when under stress. 

But... but... but...

The NTJs have more accomplishment in terms of applying their logic, their thinking, and their vision. It's their J that makes them persistent in following through their plans and grand vision. For them, "What is knowledge if you don't apply them?" Knowledge without application is useless. And knowledge is more meaningful if it is put into good use.


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

No NT is more NT than another NT. They're just a different type of NT. Cute thread though. :wink:


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## DarwinsBastard (Apr 27, 2012)

CaptainWayward said:


> I'm assuming you mean, densest collective of rational moments over a period of time; in which case individuals with Ti / Te / Fe / Fi dom would be at the top of the list. Whether they understand more about the world than the lead intuitive types is up for debate.


This was my initial thought too, in theory the lead rationals should be better at filtering out irrational thoughts/behaviours before they express them. 

That's just a gut reaction though...


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## nujabes (May 18, 2012)

To be clear, i think the J-doms are the most rational, if we can agree that rationality could be described as following a consistent set of logic to govern behavior.

So:

ENTJ (Te-dom)
INTP (Ti-dom)
INTJ (Te-aux)
ENTP (Ti-aux)

I'm certainly not arguing that I'm all that rational compared to the rest of the NT's. Tertiary Fe makes me mooshy and inconsistent sometimes.


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## A Little Bit of Cheeze (Apr 21, 2012)

> *ra·tio·nal·i·ty*
> 
> _noun_ \ˌra-shə-ˈna-lə-tē\
> _plural_ *ra·tio·nal·i·ties*
> ...


Just for the sake of definition. :crazy:


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## Pr0metheus (Jun 23, 2012)

INTJ is definitely the most rational out of the NT family. 

We ENTPs are rationally impractical :shocked:


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## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

Palaver said:


> In response to your picture:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Fiends.

To continue our anaysis, the most rational one would normally be the one on the right, if one accepted the picture at net appearance. One is emoting, two are leaving drool spots and obvious have no central nervous system to regulate movement. The one on the right is pensively focused inwards, his face a blank mask.
　
But that is likely just one more trick.

The most rational baby is the one we did not see crawl off stage right, on her way to eat all of the other's candy and build Rube Goldberg machines in their bedrooms while they are preoccupied with the camera.


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## Kuthtuk (Jun 3, 2011)

Palaver said:


> I thought you had no interest this game. The minions shouldn't be too hard to find... the blind leading the blind and all.
> 
> In response to your picture:
> 
> ...


Cryogenics my NT friend, THIS is ENTP rationality, using the rules of logic to visualize a possible future =D!


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## Ringz (Jul 20, 2012)

FacelessBeauty said:


> If you were the most rational type, how come you failed to deduce that ENTP is not my actual type? I



_Lets define rational as the ability to obtain understanding through reasoning again. _


*If you did deduce* that I _tried and failed_ to deduce your type, based on the fact that I asked for it, then you've failed to consider the mindset I was in that caused a complete lack of individual thinking; the mindset most go into when meeting someone new for the first time. That fact is too _intangible_ you think? _To be expected of a lesser rational._ When I did regain "consciousness control of my brain", I found out your type with ease, which anyone could do, rational or not, and apologized for asking.


* If you didn't assume* any of your argument true, then *you should know*, ENFP is the most rational type. :kitteh:


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

Ringz said:


> _Lets define rational as the ability to obtain understanding through reasoning again. _
> 
> 
> *If you did deduce* that I _tried and failed_ to deduce your type, based on the fact that I asked for it, then you've failed to consider the mindset I was in that caused a complete lack of individual thinking; the mindset most go into when meeting someone new for the first time. That fact is too _intangible_ you think? _To be expected of a lesser rational._ When I did regain "consciousness control of my brain", I found out your type with ease, which anyone could do, rational or not, and apologized for asking.
> ...


You obviously do not know what it means to be an intuitive rational. Intuitives can pick up on what seems intangible and can synthesise a sound conclusion or plan based on this idea. Then they observe what is actually there to see if what they think is happening is actually happening, or they can see if their plan is actually working out for the best. That is the beauty of being an NT whether you're an INTJ, INTP, ENTP, or ENTJ. The real and tangible is your marble slab which you get to shape and observe.

If you're as rationally superior and intelligent as you claim you would know that this "ENTP-The Visionairies" label is merely a mask I've decided to put on for the week. You would know that I am no extraverted intuitive. But only someone who's got a knack for typing people and observing functions through writing style would have known. But since you're not such a person, I have mercy on you.

Also, never talk down to people as if they do not know anything. You're not helping your cause when you do that. How is anyone supposed to agree with your argument when you talk down to them? And your assumption that being a superior rational entails superiority only serves to prove my assertion of you having some sort of superiority complex. And quite a strong one at that. The rationally superior would not have to come swaggering in here to prove such things, nor would they waste the time. The rationally superior would be amazing us with his or her sound, and profound reasoning.

So in conclusion, you my friend most likely have a superiority complex that needs to be checked. Also, I'm calling your type into question. Have a nice day, dear.


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## Ringz (Jul 20, 2012)

@_FacelessBeauty_ (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

@_A Little Bit of Cheeze_ Fair enough
With that definition in mind...
From my experiences with the rationals, INTP has been the most rational. In the sense that their opinions and beliefs have been strictly grounded in reason, and could be quickly changed for superior logic. It's scary actually. Although Te's comprehensive logic seems obviously more rational because of its "matter-of-factness", I noticed Ti people can root logic deep into their understanding of things, especially their decisions, making them less pragmatic at times yet more understanding than Te people. 

*I'd say:
INTP
ENTJ
ENTP
INTJ*


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

Ringz said:


> @_FacelessBeauty_ (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻












The main reason I thought you'd know that I wasn't ENTP is because you're supposed to be an Ne dominant user since you're an ENFP, and I assumed you knew an Ne dominant when you saw one. And following your form of logic, ENFP cannot be the most rational type, so if we included the other feeling types, INFJ would be ahead of ENFP since they use tertiary Ti, which is the "most rational" thinking preference because it's rooted in an internal logical system (one's own understanding). :kitteh:


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## A Little Bit of Cheeze (Apr 21, 2012)

@FacelessBeauty are you not an INTJ? Or were you just masquerading then as well? 

And as for my order- I'm not even going to. (Based upon the definition I left) Any type could be agreeable to reason, understanding to logic, it just depends on their maturity and willingness to accept it. Now I understand that certain types are more likely to be open, but I'd still rather not order because there might or might not be a degree of bias :tongue:


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

A Little Bit of Cheeze said:


> @_FacelessBeauty_ are you not an INTJ? Or were you just masquerading then as well?


I am an INTJ. But apparently ENTP works just fine as well. I'm not particularly married to any label.


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## Kelvin (May 30, 2012)

We're humans! We can try our very best and get very close, but we will never achieve "true rationality"...


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## A Little Bit of Cheeze (Apr 21, 2012)

FacelessBeauty said:


> I am an INTJ. But apparently ENTP works just fine as well. I'm not particularly married to any label.


Alrighty then |D


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## Confusion (Mar 8, 2012)

FacelessBeauty said:


> I am an INTJ. But apparently ENTP works just fine as well. I'm not particularly married to any label.


I don't understand your point... are you role playing?...


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## Dark Romantic (Dec 27, 2011)

INTPs: most rational
ENTJs: most pragmatic
ENTPs: most ingenious
INTJs: most insightful


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

Confusion said:


> I don't understand your point... are you role playing?...


Yes. I'm trying to how things change when you change labels. I don't get the INTJ arrogance accusation that comes with the label.  People are so gullible.


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

Dark Romantic said:


> INTPs: most rational
> ENTJs: most pragmatic
> ENTPs: most ingenious
> INTJs: most insightful


This list is pretty accurate. I'll take great insight over rationality any day.


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## Wartime Consigliere (Feb 8, 2011)

Dark Romantic said:


> INTPs: most rational
> ENTJs: most pragmatic
> ENTPs: most ingenious
> INTJs: most insightful


Would you be able to make an equivalent of this for the NFs?


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## Dark Romantic (Dec 27, 2011)

Optimist Mind said:


> Would you be able to make an equivalent of this for the NFs?


On what scale?


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

Dark Romantic said:


> On what scale?


Perhaps which one is the most emotional? Which one is the "NF's NF" if you know what I mean?


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