# How to deal with SJ parents?!!?



## stormfyre (Aug 13, 2015)

I've always had conflicts with both my parents over everything, they are sometimes the most irritating people I have ever met. Let me break it down for you:

I'm an ENTP
My mother is an ESFJ and my father is an ESTJ.

None of my ideas make sense to them, and as an ENTP I often feel apathy towards real world things that my parents feel quite the opposite about, "because I have to grow up". I'm sure you can see many different instances of conflict between the 3 of us.

Does anyone have any tips for coping with SJs as an NT? I'd like opinions of both SJs NTs and anyone else who might have experience with such types.


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## WeirderThanYou (Oct 16, 2015)

I'm an ENTP too and my mom is an ISFJ and she's even more difficult than ESFJs are (at least they don't judge our extraversion). xSFJs are supposed to be 'caregivers' yet I think the are just as judgmental as xSTJs are. That's my main problem with her actually. She's a practical, judgmental traditionalist and she doesn't understand concepts like creativity. My solution? I tell myself that nobody is worth enough to have to find 100 ways to prove that your lifestyle isn't a piece of crap for them on a daily basis. Even if you share their blood. I spent my childhood trying to express myself in various ways (from art to speeches in French) but she just wants to remain ignorant by choice because she has no respect for my ways. It doesn't matter if she's related. It isn't worth it. You're an ENTP so I know you're capable of an objective analysis of this that could be deemed as 'immoral' by xSFJs. As for your dad, I really don't know what to say. ESTJs tend to come in two varieties based on my experience; they either care about superficial crap likes who shares whose blood or they will only care about their kids if they meet their expectations. If your dad is of the latter, screw him. Really. He isn't worth it, either. If he decides to love you unconditionally just because you're his kid, though, you've got a slightly less stressful problem that I cannot help you with. Sorry!


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## italix (Sep 26, 2015)

Simply, I had to teach myself to take what my mother says loosely. I was lucky where my dad was an INTJ so I'd run to him and he'd tell me some of what my mother says doesn't matter and I should ignore it. She is an ESFP with strong traditional values. It was mostly issues with her trying to control my behavior. The last couple months she's thrown out this a few times, "You speak with so much rhythm in your voice. You're not singing, try to talk more normal." It's just me having more or less excitement in my voice? Not sure, sometimes I don't think she'd make sense to anyone ha! Normal this, normal that is what began to bother me. I tried to be "normal" growing up but I always knew I never really fit. I strived to show her I could succeed, but I never felt like I was competent by her standards which is really important to me. 

The hard part for me was accepting that my mom and I are going to see things differently at times. I don't try hard for her anymore, I try hard for myself. My self confidence is way better now. 

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## ReverieInSight (Sep 22, 2015)

Though I'm not an NT, the problem with having a lot of ideas and those being rejected by my mother used to be a big problem while I was growing up too. Actually the conflict you're going through with your parent totally reminds me of how it went down between me and her. And here is something very important.
You aren't like her and you do not have to bend yourself to become more like her. I see you think about how you could get some harmony between the two of you - but to be honest, that's most likely not going to happen. You'll clash because of your different personalities, but I can ensure you, this is completely natural. There are some things you should be aware of though and try to think about: You do not need her approval, just because she's your mom. If you're trying to get her approval, you could possibly try to become more like her, but you aren't like her and you can't satisfy her. So forget about that.
Have boundaries, when something she says hurts you, tell her politely. And never give up on your boundaries.
However try to stay open-minded to what she tells you. She may be right in one or two things. You may learn from her occasionally.


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## Geejayblue (Dec 21, 2015)

Aaaa.. growing up I hated my mother but starting to see things from here eyes now that im older. My father i didn't interact. Istj's find me too weird.

Lol u don't want my advice. I moved out when I was 16 and kept everything to myself. I visit them daily to help them (father not well), am polite and respectful and run back to my own place as often as i can caz there's only so much of them I can take. As for things I want to do. I play head games with them. If I know they wont be happy with it I plant thoughts in their head of something even worse (to them ) than what I plan to do and then do the same with someone who's close to them and they listen to but tell the other person I'm "thinking" of doing the other thing (what I really want to do). By then what im "thinking" of doing sounds good to them compared to what I told them I'm gonna do. They then tell me to do what I want to do with their own mouth and with their blessing. 


Btw it helps being a goody2shoes  to them, you can never do any thing wrong. 

What I can getaway with behind their backs I do. It's not hurting anyone and i'm not doing anything wrong. Anything I know they will find out that's when I play the mind games.


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## Spider2YBanana (Jun 1, 2014)

ENTJ here. I have an ESFJ mom and an INTJ dad. Not sure I can totally relate to your situation because I have only one SJ parent as opposed to two SJ parents. But here is what advice I can give you.

First assuming that you're not in an abusive situation, remember that most words/action is coming from a place of good intentions. Now this was a very difficult thing for me to learn how to do because I naturally care less about the motives behind someone's words/actions than I care about the words/actions themselves. But family relationships usually aren't grounded in logic but love. So remember that love and it'll make easier for you to get past frustrating situations. You'll still have conflict but hopefully it decreases in frequency.

Second, listen to what they're saying word for word. It really is rare that parties in conflict share no common ground. If you can identify a place where both your parents and yourself are on the same page, make it clear that you think you're on the same page for that specific instance. Then proceed toward potential areas of conflict. People are much more receptive to others' ideas if they think their own words have been taken into account.

Third, be clear when you speak to them. Don't be vague or use generalities. Try to use concrete language describing what you think or how you feel or what you want to do. They will naturally focus in on specific instances so if you're trying to create a big picture or describe a pattern, use plenty of examples that give them the details that they're looking for. 

Fourth and this is more for SFJ parents, always try to find ways to remind them that you love them. Yes it can seem redundant or unnecessary to you and even phony. But SFJ parents really invest all of themselves into their children and they really appreciate constant verbal affirmations of love. If they feel appreciated for their role as parents, chances are you'll find it much easier to help them see things from your point of view.


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## sarasalad1234 (Jan 8, 2016)

My mom is an ESFJ and my step-dad is an ESTJ. For example, my step-dad is so Te dominate that he will create rules that are not well thought out, but simply there for a quick fix of his problem. My mom is such a Fe dominate that she will go along with anything my step-dad says in order to please him, but if I talk to her privately all of a sudden she agrees with my (very confusing). I surprisingly have a pretty good relationship with both. My step-dad and I enjoy bantering. I'm not sensitive to his critique I simply do my own thing. Maybe this is my Fe showing up, but I tend to just smile and nod with a light chuckle whenever he goes into his crazy rule-making let me teach you a lesson about responsibility mode. I find humor in this, and also I'm not one to argue other than in a joking sarcastic way. MY ADVICE: Myers-Briggs really opened my eyes to the differences in personality and I have learned to appreciate and often times find humor in the ways of others. It's so clear to me their thought pattern, and it comes as a useful tool. It can be annoying, but I suggest not picking a fight that everyone will loose. I have no clue if this answered your question considering I only read the title of this forum....okay, I just went back and read it. Stop trying to force them to see things your way, they won't, and they don't have to. I suggest choosing a group of friends or a loved one with a similar thinking pattern to discuss your ideas with.


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## 95134hks (Dec 20, 2015)

stormfyre said:


> I've always had conflicts with both my parents over everything, they are sometimes the most irritating people I have ever met. Let me break it down for you:
> 
> I'm an ENTP
> My mother is an ESFJ and my father is an ESTJ.
> ...


Getting along with parents who have completely different personalities and interests than you have is an impossible challenge which will require damage control until you are finally out of the house.

Your counselors at school should be able to help you with this problem by calling your parents in for student/parent counseling sessions.

Normally the child is the highest priority and the needs and desires of the child need to be fulfilled. This is what school counseling is all about.

The child cannot become the parents no more than the parents can become the child.

Use your counselors at school to the best of your abilities. They can call-in your parents and then you can all meet together and decide what academic options are best for you.

At age 18 everyone on the planet is ready for work or more education.

If you are physically fit and you really want to move out right away at age 18 then the military or navy are your best bets.

If you are not physically fit then you will be somewhat dependent on your parents until you can develop a vocation, at which point you can then move out.

In the meantime you simply need to control the damage.


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## 95134hks (Dec 20, 2015)

sarasalad1234 said:


> My mom is an ESFJ and my step-dad is an ESTJ. For example, my step-dad is so Te dominate that he will create rules that are not well thought out, but simply there for a quick fix of his problem. My mom is such a Fe dominate that she will go along with anything my step-dad says in order to please him, but if I talk to her privately all of a sudden she agrees with my (very confusing). I surprisingly have a pretty good relationship with both. My step-dad and I enjoy bantering. I'm not sensitive to his critique I simply do my own thing. Maybe this is my Fe showing up, but I tend to just smile and nod with a light chuckle whenever he goes into his crazy rule-making let me teach you a lesson about responsibility mode. I find humor in this, and also I'm not one to argue other than in a joking sarcastic way. MY ADVICE: Myers-Briggs really opened my eyes to the differences in personality and I have learned to appreciate and often times find humor in the ways of others. It's so clear to me their thought pattern, and it comes as a useful tool. It can be annoying, but I suggest not picking a fight that everyone will loose. I have no clue if this answered your question considering I only read the title of this forum....okay, I just went back and read it. Stop trying to force them to see things your way, they won't, and they don't have to. I suggest choosing a group of friends or a loved one with a similar thinking pattern to discuss your ideas with.


Households need rules because there are several people under one roof and it would be pure chaos and unlivable otherwise.

Common household rules are such that everyone gets up about the same time, eats together about the same time, goes to bed about the same time, and does their share of the work. Hopefully you agree with all of those.

Parents have many more years of experience than children and therefore insight which children do not have.

The main responsibility of children is to get an education -- to get educated in reading, writing, math, sciences, civic duties, civil obedience, and not make the home environment annoying or intolerable for the others.

If you do your schoolwork and your homework with these as your highest priorities then there should be few conflicts.

Dating boys is dangerous at any age younger than 20 so if that's what you are angry about then listen to your parents don't fight them.

If you want a side job but your parents don't want you to work then ask them for an allowance of some kind which is reasonable.

The state law holds your parents responsible for you so give them a break and try to be pleasant and cooperative.

Someday you will be free, probably at age 18 or soon thereafter. By then you will be a lot smarter too.


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## 95134hks (Dec 20, 2015)

Spider2YBanana said:


> ENTJ here. I have an ESFJ mom and an INTJ dad. Not sure I can totally relate to your situation because I have only one SJ parent as opposed to two SJ parents. But here is what advice I can give you.
> 
> First assuming that you're not in an abusive situation, remember that most words/action is coming from a place of good intentions. Now this was a very difficult thing for me to learn how to do because I naturally care less about the motives behind someone's words/actions than I care about the words/actions themselves. But family relationships usually aren't grounded in logic but love. So remember that love and it'll make easier for you to get past frustrating situations. You'll still have conflict but hopefully it decreases in frequency.
> 
> ...


"Abusive" in my book is physical beatings.

Yelling can be abusive but it all depends on the situation. Parents have to discipline bad behavior somehow.

If somebody is beating somebody else, then somebody should call the police.

For a child, foster homes are the solution in that case.

If the child is troubled, then boarding school is the solution.


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## 95134hks (Dec 20, 2015)

Geejayblue said:


> Aaaa.. growing up I hated my mother but starting to see things from here eyes now that im older. My father i didn't interact. Istj's find me too weird.
> 
> Lol u don't want my advice. I moved out when I was 16 and kept everything to myself. I visit them daily to help them (father not well), am polite and respectful and run back to my own place as often as i can caz there's only so much of them I can take. As for things I want to do. I play head games with them. If I know they wont be happy with it I plant thoughts in their head of something even worse (to them ) than what I plan to do and then do the same with someone who's close to them and they listen to but tell the other person I'm "thinking" of doing the other thing (what I really want to do). By then what im "thinking" of doing sounds good to them compared to what I told them I'm gonna do. They then tell me to do what I want to do with their own mouth and with their blessing.
> 
> ...


Yup that's classically how it always ends for a bad relationship between a resilient child and her/his parents with whom they did not get along.

Good job.

Jesus loves you for taking care of them in their old age.

We have a similar situation in our family with our sole surviving mom. Our dad passed away long ago. They were both troubled.

In my dad's case it was PTSD due to WW2. He would wake everyone up at night with his screaming in his sleep. I would get out of bed and run into his room and wake him. He never got over it.

In my mom's case her parents beat her. She tried to pass on the abuse. My sister and she got into a fist fight once over it, which I had to break up. They still hate each other.


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## Spider2YBanana (Jun 1, 2014)

95134hks said:


> "Abusive" in my book is physical beatings.
> 
> Yelling can be abusive but it all depends on the situation. Parents have to discipline bad behavior somehow.
> 
> ...


I would argue that your definition of "abusive" is rather narrow. I'm a mandated reporter in my state so I take the accusation of abuse very seriously. If a parent or an adult is consistently insulting, degrading, or threatening a child in a verbal manner, that is considered abuse in most states. Telling your child that he/she makes "dumb decisions", no one is arguing that as abuse. Telling your child that he/she is "a piece of shit", that is not really constructive and if done repeatedly constitutes verbal abuse.

But I find it really funny that out of everything that I wrote, you seemed to hang on the single sentence where I said that I assumed that one is not in an abusive situation. I wasn't arguing that anyone here is an abusive situation; I'd have much different advice for that like contacting child protective services or an abuse hotline. Most parent-child conflicts are not abusive, they're just part of raising children/growing up. I mentioned the assumption of a non-abusive conflict because I want to make sure that I'm not giving the wrong advice.

However now that we've opened this can of worms, I'm interested to hear what you think constitutes abuse versus normal conflict.


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## 95134hks (Dec 20, 2015)

Spider2YBanana said:


> I would argue that your definition of "abusive" is rather narrow. I'm a mandated reporter in my state so I take the accusation of abuse very seriously. If a parent or an adult is consistently insulting, degrading, or threatening a child in a verbal manner, that is considered abuse in most states. Telling your child that he/she makes "dumb decisions", no one is arguing that as abuse. Telling your child that he/she is "a piece of shit", that is not really constructive and if done repeatedly constitutes verbal abuse.
> 
> But I find it really funny that out of everything that I wrote, you seemed to hang on the single sentence where I said that I assumed that one is not in an abusive situation. I wasn't arguing that anyone here is an abusive situation; I'd have much different advice for that like contacting child protective services or an abuse hotline. Most parent-child conflicts are not abusive, they're just part of raising children/growing up. I mentioned the assumption of a non-abusive conflict because I want to make sure that I'm not giving the wrong advice.
> 
> However now that we've opened this can of worms, I'm interested to hear what you think constitutes abuse versus normal conflict.


You are right, child protective services is the solution for a goodly child in a bad situation.

I would guess that in many such cases there is one good parent and the other abusive parent.

What is abuse?

Any lack of love, affection, and coaching is abuse.

Neglect is abuse.

Verbal abuse is also abuse.

Our mother was verbally abusive and we kids just verbally abused her back. We were resilient and in the long term our mother lost that war of words.


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## 95134hks (Dec 20, 2015)

Spider2YBanana said:


> ENTJ here. I have an ESFJ mom and an INTJ dad. Not sure I can totally relate to your situation because I have only one SJ parent as opposed to two SJ parents. But here is what advice I can give you.
> 
> First assuming that you're not in an abusive situation, remember that most words/action is coming from a place of good intentions. Now this was a very difficult thing for me to learn how to do because I naturally care less about the motives behind someone's words/actions than I care about the words/actions themselves. But family relationships usually aren't grounded in logic but love. So remember that love and it'll make easier for you to get past frustrating situations. You'll still have conflict but hopefully it decreases in frequency.
> 
> ...





95134hks said:


> "Abusive" in my book is physical beatings.
> 
> Yelling can be abusive but it all depends on the situation. Parents have to discipline bad behavior somehow.
> 
> ...


Ok I see what you are referring too.

My impression and point was that sometimes kids think they are being abused when they are simply being disciplined.

There is a difference.

In my opinion, parents owe their children love, affection, attention, coaching, care, and support.

And in return children owe their parents obedience and attention and should strive to become good citizens.

During that process, counseling is often warranted, as is 2 way communications.

I don't have a problem escalating to yelling if normal conversation is not working.

I would never hit anyone.

Hitting is counter productive.

If you hit someone you are eventually going to turn them into a killer.

And the first person they are most likely to kill is you.


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## Spider2YBanana (Jun 1, 2014)

95134hks said:


> You are right, child protective services is the solution for a goodly child in a bad situation.
> 
> I would guess that in many such cases there is one good parent and the other abusive parent.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry to hear that you grew up in an environment with abuse. 

I agree with your broad definition of abuse. It's unfortunate that the policing against abuse usually focuses on physical abuse or sexual abuse while disregarding verbal abuse and neglect as forms of abuse. Those two behaviors can be just as detrimental to a child's welfare, though the scars aren't as readily visible.



95134hks said:


> Ok I see what you are referring too.
> 
> My impression and point was that sometimes kids think they are being abused when they are simply being disciplined.
> 
> ...


I think that as society has become more vigilant in looking for signs of abuse, people can sometimes overreact and claim that any parent-child conflict is a sign of abuse. 

Conflict happens between parents and children. Sometimes it's more subtle and sometimes it's more explosive. I would never want to hit someone. It's counter-productive like you said but it also violates your sovereignty over your body. Respecting an individual is important no matter how much you disagree. Usually I try to avoid yelling even if people aren't listening. I'll walk away and let everyone cool down if time permits. I've found that yelling is usually counter-productive. It's better to try and convince people in other ways. A strong resume of accomplishments. Actions that show you're invested in them. Listening or showing a willingness to compromise. Brute force sometimes feels the most efficient manner at the time but I only use it as a last resort if I have no other options or if time is of the essence.

Back to the SJ parent-NT child conflict specifically, I find the biggest disagreement arises from the NT confidence in their ideas even if they've never been proven and the SJ loyalty to the tried and true even in the face of more effective action. NTs then come off as arrogant to SJs while SJs seem to be unimaginative to NTs. 

I'm an ENTJ, my dad is an INTJ, and my mom is an ESFJ. My dad and I have always gotten along quite naturally and have little to no conflict save the occasional harmless miscommunication. 

However, my mom and I used to argue frequently. It's definitely lessened in the past few years partly because I'm an adult and she has less control over my life. The main crux of our conflicts was that I felt she insisted on rules for the sake of rules and wasn't willing to concede when she couldn't give logical reasons behind her rules. While I've always preferred open ended rules as opposed to strict rules, I don't mind rules so long as they make sense logically. 

In turn, I think she felt unappreciated because I'm not the most emotional individual. In the past and every once in awhile now, it was/is difficult to translate my appreciation for other people into words. I don't remember all the little things and my mom really feels appreciated when people remember the little things.


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## jvsummit101 (Apr 22, 2016)

Geejayblue said:


> Aaaa.. growing up I hated my mother but starting to see things from here eyes now that im older. My father i didn't interact. Istj's find me too weird.
> 
> Lol u don't want my advice. I moved out when I was 16 and kept everything to myself. I visit them daily to help them (father not well), am polite and respectful and run back to my own place as often as i can caz there's only so much of them I can take. As for things I want to do. I play head games with them. If I know they wont be happy with it I plant thoughts in their head of something even worse (to them ) than what I plan to do and then do the same with someone who's close to them and they listen to but tell the other person I'm "thinking" of doing the other thing (what I really want to do). By then what im "thinking" of doing sounds good to them compared to what I told them I'm gonna do. They then tell me to do what I want to do with their own mouth and with their blessing.
> 
> ...


^ME


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## elizabethgrace (Jun 22, 2016)

I definitely relate. My mom is an ISTJ, I'm an E/INTJ, and my sister is ESFP. Dealing with my mom often just means doing enough so it's "her" way, and then doing what is the most efficient when she's done. I listen to her advice, and try to find the value in it. If it doesn't work, I"ll do it enough so she's happy, but otherwise do my own thing.


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## Aladdin Sane (May 10, 2016)

stormfyre said:


> I've always had conflicts with both my parents over everything, they are sometimes the most irritating people I have ever met. Let me break it down for you:
> 
> I'm an ENTP
> My mother is an ESFJ and my father is an ESTJ.
> ...


I can definitely relate, my mom, my aunts and all my female cousins are ESFJ (and my grandma was as well) and they all like to critize and nag me all the time. I know what you mean about the 'apathy about real world things too' everything they talk about or expect me to care about / be like are simply things that I don't even take into consideration.... because well, they are trivial things. I often get told that I act like I have no life in me (usually when they are talking about something which I have nothing to say about so I sit quietly in a corner somewhere) and we just seem to live in different worlds. My dad is an ESTP and he just leaves me alone and doesn't judge me or wishes to make me like he is so that's cool.

To be completely honest, there is no solution to the problem, as it isn't your fault, it is your family's fault.


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## fieryelf (Mar 28, 2016)

My parents are both SJ, they tend to criticize a lot without thinking about the consequences. My sister had a crush on a guy when she was in high school. When we were eating at the table one night my sister started talking about him (We didn't know she had a crush on him yet) and my parents just started saying how they know this guy's father, he's stupid, his son is probably no better.

They did the same to me with a girl I went to school with, one of my high school crush. She started working as a waitress in a local restaurant and we went eating there, she was acting very friendly, probably because she knew me but my parents just took it as impoliteness and just went on to say they don't like that waitress, found more faults about the way she was serving us and I was just sitting there, listening to them making the girl I had a crush on seem like the worst person they've met.

At a Christmas party a few years ago my father was telling my cousin how she shouldn't go into show business because she was fat and not that pretty, he wasn't saying that in a bad way, in his head, he meant, don't waste 5 years of your life trying to do something with a low chance of success when you could be doing money somewhere you're good at. But that didn't come out right. 

Listening to my aunts and uncles, I can tell they always saw my dad like the mean guy of the family but I know deep down he just wants to help people by letting them know the consequences of their acts. It's the approach he takes to do it that makes it seem like a bad thing. I usually listen to his opinion but keep it to myself if I don't agree and make the final decision myself.


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## redeemofself (Aug 29, 2016)

My mother is an ISTJ and my father is a ESTJ.

I get along pretty well with my father, which is assertive. He gave me so many great opinion and things which I still use in my everyday life. He is not surprised about my view on the world and that I don't go by the rules, but that doesn't mean he isn't on the opposite side. He knows that he could change some of my opinions if he has logical arguments and that doesn't step over one of my principles. Nonetheless, we pretty much get along and I accept his logical opinions.

My ISTJ mother is the kind of person I wouldn't want to relate to if we weren't relatives. She's so traditional and turbulent. If I were late for an appointment she'd worry what people think of me and that I'll lose my social image and such things. Another thing I noticed is that she can't take sarcasm, she takes everything personally. I am a sarcastic ENTP and I can't just stop, some times the words simply run out of my mouth. So this usually ends up in bitter arguments where father is dragged in. He usually takes my mother's side and tells me that I shouldn't be going further only because she is my mother (I am not a moral person, so I end up being more fired up then before). 

I think my mother might be a ISFJ, even though she tested as ISTJ. 

I usually continue talking to my ESTJ father, while I just go cold on my ISTJ mother. I noticed that if you leave the things to calm down, she'd come again more understanding. If you continue to argue it will only get worse for you and them. Anyway, these situations are rare now that I am busy.


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## sweetraglansweater (Jul 31, 2015)

italix said:


> Simply, I had to teach myself to take what my mother says loosely. I was lucky where my dad was an INTJ so I'd run to him and he'd tell me some of what my mother says doesn't matter and I should ignore it. She is an ESFP with strong traditional values. It was mostly issues with her trying to control my behavior. The last couple months she's thrown out this a few times, "You speak with so much rhythm in your voice. You're not singing, try to talk more normal." It's just me having more or less excitement in my voice? Not sure, sometimes I don't think she'd make sense to anyone ha! Normal this, normal that is what began to bother me. I tried to be "normal" growing up but I always knew I never really fit. I strived to show her I could succeed, but I never felt like I was competent by her standards which is really important to me.
> 
> The hard part for me was accepting that my mom and I are going to see things differently at times. I don't try hard for her anymore, I try hard for myself. My self confidence is way better now.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


I've had two parental type figures in my life Female ESFJ and male ESTJ. I can relate.

My grandmother is doting and kind but I just don't confide much by way of my ideas to her. I know she can't hack it. I go along with the flow when I'm with her and live my life as I want when apart. As a result she knows very little actual information about me. She's just not capable of appreciating ideas or my creativity. She was constantly wanting me to be a doctor or a lawyer growing up and marry the weirdo next door who went to Yale. People like that do care for you...they just have zero imagination and need to be handled with kid gloves. I hate to say this but my grandmother is pretty materialistic in the sense that she always wants security, security, security. I don't know if this is an ESFJ thing or not but it certainly kills free thought. The best relationship you can have with an ESFJ woman/figure is to let them take care of you, nod your head 'yes' and find a way to express yourself elsewhere. Don't look to them for fulfillment in your mental life. Just don't. 

ESTJ males? Ha! Have fun. They are pillars of strength for getting shit done. They are wonderful cornerstones to familial relationships...but don't ramble on about your ideas because you will get patronized. They are in the here and now and want concrete, tangible directives or examples. Again, get a journal or join a debate club, rage on the internet...but don't think that they will ever give two shits about your abstract conceptualizations. The sooner you come to terms with this, the better. 

Maybe this is where introversion helps...you can just close off and do your thing in your head without giving a damn. It must be hard to be a NT extrovert surrounded by SJs.


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## Epitomity (Nov 13, 2012)

I love both my ISTJ dad and my ISFJ mom.


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## DonDuhDon (Dec 22, 2016)

You don't deal, you survive. 









By agreeing with everything while not forgetting who you are


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## The red spirit (Sep 29, 2015)

stormfyre said:


> I've always had conflicts with both my parents over everything, they are sometimes the most irritating people I have ever met. Let me break it down for you:
> 
> I'm an ENTP
> My mother is an ESFJ and my father is an ESTJ.
> ...


Put them into cage, problem solved


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## Felix5 (Apr 27, 2015)

My dad is a very unhealthy ESTJ and my mother is an ISFJ...between the two of them it's like an emotional roller coaster. I would suggest strapping yourself in and simply sitting out the ride. There is nothing you can do or say that will convince these people that your ideas make rational sense to them. What you have to do is simply say, "hey I'm just different from you." Also, you are a frigging adult. Tell them that. And tell them that you are going to do what you want to do. Simple as that. If there's anything an ESTJ will respect, it's sticking to your guns. As long as you're doing what needs to be done (paying bills, have a full time job, a place to live), an ESTJ can't really pick apart your life without you having some practical defense. At the heart of it, ESTJs are actually very practical people. Of course, like ISFJs, I think they believe they are showing you love by criticizing you. They think they are giving you practical advice (tough love) by telling you thinks like "Grow up" and "Get a real job." What they don't understand is that your idea of a life is not the same thing as their idea of a life. SJs want marriage, a house in the suburbs, stability, more traditions. So someone who wants to live in the city, ride around on a motorcycle, travel the world, work as a freelance writer....this is radical and total nonsense to them.

ESFJs? Couldn't tell you anything about them. I actually fear them and have no way of actually interacting with them on any level. I basically just avoid them. 

My ISFJ mother has come to understand that I am just different from most people and that I will do what I want to anyway. She used to henpeck and criticize me, trying to get me to do what she wanted me to do. It's just her way of showing love. She thinks that by giving you "advice" (basically telling you what you should do with your entire life), that she's protecting you. 

*Also, I had a disability growing up and I believe she saw it as her job to protect me at all costs. Now that I'm an adult, she can't do this anymore. It took her some time to get used to that idea*

She still criticizes me in little ways though...it's exasperating..

The thing is that ISFJs don't realize that they're overstepping any boundaries. They think that by protecting you, they are showing their love. Once you realize that about them, you can't really get too angry with them; So...they end up smothering you in the process. ISFJs are basically practical people though and will sit down, talk with you and listen.

ESFJs?

???

I would suggest just being honest with your ESFJ mother. I'm not sure if anything ever really works out when you lie to anyone. Obviously she has an issue with boundaries. Again emphasize that you are an adult and that you will do what you want to do regardless of her opinion.


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## Felix5 (Apr 27, 2015)

WeirderThanYou said:


> I'm an ENTP too and my mom is an ISFJ and she's even more difficult than ESFJs are (at least they don't judge our extraversion). xSFJs are supposed to be 'caregivers' yet I think the are just as judgmental as xSTJs are. That's my main problem with her actually. She's a practical, judgmental traditionalist and she doesn't understand concepts like creativity. My solution? I tell myself that nobody is worth enough to have to find 100 ways to prove that your lifestyle isn't a piece of crap for them on a daily basis. Even if you share their blood. I spent my childhood trying to express myself in various ways (from art to speeches in French) but she just wants to remain ignorant by choice because she has no respect for my ways. It doesn't matter if she's related. It isn't worth it. You're an ENTP so I know you're capable of an objective analysis of this that could be deemed as 'immoral' by xSFJs. As for your dad, I really don't know what to say. ESTJs tend to come in two varieties based on my experience; they either care about superficial crap likes who shares whose blood or they will only care about their kids if they meet their expectations. If your dad is of the latter, screw him. Really. He isn't worth it, either. If he decides to love you unconditionally just because you're his kid, though, you've got a slightly less stressful problem that I cannot help you with. Sorry!


ISFJs understand creativity...they're actually very creative people and they seem to admire people who have unique personality traits unlike ESFJs who seem to instinctively distrust anyone who is different.

The problem with ISFJs is that they don't vocalize this unless they feel like it's ok. My mother enjoys art and classical music, but my father never had any interest or respect for that. My mother used to take me to museums because I insisted on going to them and I think she got a lot of enjoyment out of that. I think she felt like she could express a part of herself that she could never express otherwise. I think that's a key to understanding ISFJs, they never quite feel like they can be themselves around others. I think Extroverted feeling combined with introverted sensing as the dominant function creates this kind of traumatic coping mechanism that forces ISFJs to repress their own identity. No ISFJ will ever tell you this though, but if you know them very well and they let you in emotionally, you will understand it about them somehow. They will make it evident subconsciously. 

What ISFJs can't stand, what they abhor, is in the moment sensation. ISFJs don't really do well with people who are extroverted sensors or extroverted intuitors. ISFJs want everything to make sense, work well, and be safe. At the heart of it, they want to feel protected. The key to ISFJs is their need to feel protected and safe. Those with Extroverted Intuition or Extroverted Sensing evoke a big red danger sign.


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## malignantmongrel (Jan 20, 2017)

by moving out


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