# Mistypes and so-called "cool" types - 4, 5, 8



## aconite (Mar 26, 2012)

Somehow I got the impression that 4, 5 and 8 are the most desired types and most people would like to be one of these or at least identify with one (or more). Why, I have no idea 

So, my question is: Fours, Fives and Eight, had you mistyped before you discovered your type? Why did it happen? How do you feel about your type now?


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## CataclysmSolace (Mar 13, 2012)

aconite said:


> Somehow I got the impression that 4, 5 and 8 are the most desired types and most people would like to be one of these or at least identify with one (or more). Why, I have no idea
> 
> So, my question is: Fours, Fives and Eight, had you mistyped before you discovered your type? Why did it happen? How do you feel about your type now?


I mistyped myself as a six before. 6w5 but I figured out that I had it switched, I'm 5w6 actually. I have always wanted to learn as much as I could, and still am. I think the main reason behind mistypes is because of the mood the person is in when they type themselves. As the person sees what their type is for the first time, they start trying to see if it's really like them. Eventually, believing that that is who they are and sometimes making themselves "mold" into the type. Happened to me is all I can say. The five in the mistype that threw me off. As for how I feel about my type now, it feels more like me. Most enneagram info I read about fives, I can relate to it all (Some more than others…). As for my mistype of being a six, it never really felt like me. Only some of the info was relateable, like the five parts of it. I wouldn't even call 4's, 5's, and 6's cool types either, all part have their strengths and weaknesses. I mistyped myself as a six (A so-called unwanted type to have), and I was fine with it until I got more into the enneagram, finding myself.

Hope it helps…


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## aconite (Mar 26, 2012)

Armageddon_Wasteland said:


> I wouldn't even call 4's, 5's, and 6's cool types either, all part have their strengths and weaknesses. I mistyped myself as a six (A so-called unwanted type to have), and I was fine with it until I got more into the enneagram, finding myself.


Yes, I know that. While, in my opinion, some types (especially 6s) have a bad rep - 4, 5, and 8 are idealised in spite of issues they have to deal with.



Armageddon_Wasteland said:


> Hope it helps…


It does, thank you.


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## CataclysmSolace (Mar 13, 2012)

aconite said:


> Yes, I know that. While, in my opinion, some types (especially 6s) have a bad rep - 4, 5, and 8 are idealised in spite of issues they have to deal with.
> 
> 
> It does, thank you.


The main reason I said that was mainly, "to show knowledge." I know that you know that because I read Scruffy's thread about Enneagram typing and stereotypes and such. I believe I think I read a thread you wrote about the enneagram, IDK…

You just said


> Yes, I know that.


 so bluntly, I had to respond. Question though, (not to get off topic) would a five be more inclined to show his/her knowledge to others? As in, "showing off" as you shall say?

I'm glad it helped…


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## aconite (Mar 26, 2012)

Armageddon_Wasteland said:


> The main reason I said that was mainly, "to show knowledge." I know that you know that because I read Scruffy's thread about Enneagram typing and stereotypes and such. I believe I think I read a thread you wrote about the enneagram, IDK…
> 
> You just said so bluntly, I had to respond. Question though, (not to get off topic) would a five be more inclined to show his/her knowledge to others? As in, "showing off" as you shall say?
> 
> I'm glad it helped…


Yes, I've read Scruffy's thread too. It was one the first things I read here.

Well, I am usually blunt, but it doesn't mean I want to force my opinion onto others. I'm not sure what thread of mine do you mean, could you post a link?


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## CataclysmSolace (Mar 13, 2012)

aconite said:


> Yes, I've read Scruffy's thread too. It was one the first things I read here.
> 
> Well, I am usually blunt, but it doesn't mean I want to force my opinion onto others. I'm not sure what thread of mine do you mean, could you post a link?


I might have gotten confused with this thread here or maybe the poll on triple tritypes, either of those. Both are good post BTW…


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

aconite said:


> Somehow I got the impression that 4, 5 and 8 are the most desired types and most people would like to be one of these or at least identify with one (or more). Why, I have no idea
> So, my question is: Fours, Fives and Eight, had you mistyped before you discovered your type? Why did it happen? How do you feel about your type now?


I've always found this interesting as 4s and 5s at least are not very desirable types from an IRL social standpoint. in real life, people tend to value 3s, 7s and 2s more, but these types tend to be looked down on in typology forums (I'm a little guilty of it myself)


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## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

I never mistyped for some reason. At first, I had taken the test not even knowing what every type was about, and got the result. After a while, I decided to look into it more, and the descriptions really shook me, in a very unpleasant way. I'm still to this day trying to find out as much as I can about it even if it's been a while since I discovered my type because it is by far, an incredibly accurate portrayal of my experiences. 

How do I feel about my type now? Ambiguous at best. I don't feel like my type is really all that special. IMO, it's one of the types that don't really serve you in the real world, not unless you know how to mold it and work with it - and that requires a lot of willpower, maturity and experience. Besides having a high emotional IQ and being abnormally attuned to others, I feel like my Four-ness makes things worse whenever I'm having problems. This is why I don't get people who envy Fours, or who would like to be that type. It's really not fun at all. 

When I'm healthy though, I realize how much it can help on an interpersonal level, and on the creative side of things. Everything around you starts holding meaning, and you gain incredible insight to human nature. I know I don't have much actual experience in most things, but through introspection and analysis, I was able to learn a lot. Maybe because I'm not exactly free to explore the full potential of being a Four right now, I can't really see the good sides of it yet.


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## Inguz (Mar 10, 2012)

5w4 felt much like my current 6w5, but without that ever-present existential anxiety that I seem to carry. I've come to realize that I really don't want to be any Enneagram type, as all of them are dysfunctional. But for facing my demons, I feel like I'm much better of with a correct typing, and I don't think I'd prefer to be dysfunctional like a 5 over dysfunctional like a 6 anyway, it's all I've ever known.


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## madhatter (May 30, 2010)

I actually shied away from 5 at first, mainly because of all the mistypes. I always knew 5 was my head-fix, but I struggled for a long while to accept it as my core type. 

And I agree, @Swordsman of Mana. 5 is not a beneficial type when it comes to real-life social interactions. It takes me a long time to get comfortable around someone new, which drives me crazy. I wish I could be more at ease in those types of situations. 

I can see why people would find 8 desirable, even though I see the downside of the type as well. 8 is my point of integration, so when I'm on the healthier side, I become more 8-like, and I like that part of myself.


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## Scruffy (Aug 17, 2009)

> people tend to value *3s*, 7s and 2s more, but these types tend to be looked down on in typology forums (I'm a little guilty of it myself)


 I like to play in the mud while others observe in disgust. 

8's are the "ultimate" badass, they are attractive because it is implied that they are impossible to hurt & fearless. Extremely comforting ideas to most people.

5's are because people link intelligence with the 5's mind, an extremely poor connection. 5's are romantic because they're the closed-off saviors of the world, a prime observer. 

4's are cool, arty, and appeal to the hipster side of everyone. Romantic because they're sad, unique, and artistic. An embodiment of romance & art.

If you consider yourself different from society it's because you have to be a 4 or 5, if you're afraid, you're an 8 because it gives you comfort. I find it most annoying because it ignores the point of the Enneagram, and turns it into a silly game of unique masturbation. 

It is not a system for you read a type descriptions and show off to your friends, because it illustrates how cool you are, or how totally unnormal you are. It is a system that shows your ugliness, and a system that helps you understand your extreme shortcomings. Use it to fill a gap you created in your formative years, use it to achieve an enlightenment of the soul, and use it to gain wisdom into your mind.


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## sodden (Jul 20, 2009)

I was introduced to the enneagram by a close friend who said I was a textbook four. I didn't look into it too much until post a really horrific time in my life and then I was medicated so it made it confusing because I was far more subdued emotionally than I was before. I've thought both five and nine at times for myself, mainly because being an unhealthy four sucks and I think I thought if I wasn't actually a four maybe I wasn't as f'ed up as I, let's face it, know I am. 

I have no idea why anyone would consider four a desirable type. A healthy four, sure, but becoming healthy I think is especially hard for fours. I know I'm constantly sabotaging myself, at least, because despair feels like home, ugh. It's a struggle.


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## Ramysa (Mar 22, 2012)

I'm type 2. Cool or not , this is who I am


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## Chipps (Jun 1, 2011)

After realizing i wasn't an 8 and reading more into the differences between the 8 and CP6, I was kind of glad I wasn't an 8 to be honest. I don't envy the type. I wouldn't want to have a relationship with anger the way they do. Why? Because its not really understood in the real world. People are less sympathetic to it and think you're just acting out and being an asshole and that you can choose to not have underlying anger. The world caters more to 6s 9s 3s 2s and 1s which is why (even though people say that the evidence of type percentages can't be trusted) I believe those types are the most common. So, I don't really get the love of the 8, 5, 4. Our world doesn't seem very supportive of them.


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## TreeBob (Oct 11, 2008)

Not sure if I would say mis-typed or not. I was stuck between 7w8 and 8w7 for awhile. It wasn't until I realized I feared losing control, that I settled on 8.


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## Spades (Aug 31, 2011)

Guilty, ooooh so guilty.

For the longest time, I was convinced I was stuck between 5 and 8 and that enneagram sucked. I'm appalled at my blatant ignorance. I think mistyping most often comes from lack of knowledge about enneagram theory to be honest, along with lack of introspection *with respect to* enneagram theory.

As someone whose considered the 584 tritype, I want to send a message to anyone with either of those types in your tritype:

*Do your research! Do your reflection!* Don't settle for a type unless you have understood the entirety of all the types.

To be honest, I've got a lot more to learn. I've confirmed my Core with certainty, but I'm exploring 9w8 and 3w4 fixes right now.


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## CataclysmSolace (Mar 13, 2012)

Scruffy said:


> I like to play in the mud while others observe in disgust.
> 
> 8's are the "ultimate" badass, they are attractive because it is implied that they are impossible to hurt & fearless. Extremely comforting ideas to most people.
> 
> ...


Very well said…


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## CataclysmSolace (Mar 13, 2012)

EDIT: Double post…


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

I was originally typed as a 5. I'm still not certain of my wing - inwardly still considering which it is, perhaps even that they might be balanced.

Since being typed I've read various information on all the types, and while I haven't done all my digging yet, online reading (information here and elsewhere), observation of people and contemplation of what it all means hasn't swayed me so far. My JCF aren't the clearest according to established theories, but my core is clearly 5. It probably helps that I'd already been digging into myself and my own reasoning and motivations way before I got to Enneagram.

I don't think there is a particular cool type, except in people's perception. Sometimes, as with this idea, people's perception lies.

I do prefer to be me over some other person. I like my mind.


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## voicetrocity (Mar 31, 2012)

I really don't understand the 8 "admiration". Some of the things I read about my type make so much sense and yet, disgust me at the same time. Being an 8 isn't all bada**ery to me. It means i'm extremely scared of being seen as anything less than strong. Sure, my type has helped me get through a lot of crud in my life, but that also came at the cost of hurting and alienating myself from everyone who cared about me in the process. It means I've been hated and admired from afar, but never "relatable". It means I've been lonely, walked away from/been fired from jobs because of disagreements; it means I am coming up on 30 and have never allowed myself to be in a romantic relationship.It means I've been called "rebellious", "evil", "difficult" and (my favorite) "bitchy". It means I've spent most of my life feeling like a freaking alien, and like there had to be something seriously wrong for me for being the way I was; and especially, for not really caring about it. It means no matter how much sense this all makes to me, it's still hard for me to wrap my head around it because it F-in scares me to be faced with the future knowing I might never be able to shake any of these things; since I've figured out my type, since I started typing this, I've been forced to stare at the things I absolutely hate about myself. It means the mask is off, I'm bare and forced to think "WTF am I going to do with this information, WTF am I going to do with myself?" 

I really don't have any answers right now. I haven't even advertised my type anywhere outside of here. I'm sure my parents would say it's just a "cop out" if I did try to have a serious conversation with them about it. 

I think that was one of the reasons behind my original mistyping. #1- that I've not really been open to admitting the negative aspects of my personality before. #2- When I read the description of 8, it made me sick to my stomach, and slightly like "This is too easy; this explains everything so well, there's no way, it's just too creepy, maybe it IS a cop out". 

I know this sounds terribly whiny; and i'm still growing, I'm still willing to learn; and the more I learn the more hope I have that I can use this information to my benefit. 

And thank you @aconite for giving me a chance to vent all of this.


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## obstinatesnooperr (Jan 24, 2010)

voicetrocity said:


> I really don't understand the 8 "admiration". Some of the things I read about my type make so much sense and yet, disgust me at the same time. Being an 8 isn't all bada**ery to me. It means i'm extremely scared of being seen as anything less than strong. Sure, my type has helped me get through a lot of crud in my life, but that also came at the cost of hurting and alienating myself from everyone who cared about me in the process. It means I've been hated and admired from afar, but never "relatable". It means I've been lonely, walked away from/been fired from jobs because of disagreements; it means I am coming up on 30 and have never allowed myself to be in a romantic relationship.It means I've been called "rebellious", "evil", "difficult" and (my favorite) "bitchy". It means I've spent most of my life feeling like a freaking alien, and like there had to be something seriously wrong for me for being the way I was; and especially, for not really caring about it. It means no matter how much sense this all makes to me, it's still hard for me to wrap my head around it because it F-in scares me to be faced with the future knowing I might never be able to shake any of these things; since I've figured out my type, since I started typing this, I've been forced to stare at the things I absolutely hate about myself. It means the mask is off, I'm bare and forced to think "WTF am I going to do with this information, WTF am I going to do with myself?"
> 
> I really don't have any answers right now. I haven't even advertised my type anywhere outside of here. I'm sure my parents would say it's just a "cop out" if I did try to have a serious conversation with them about it.
> 
> ...


Damn, girl. That was another punch to my gut - like reading the type 8 description all over again. Integration to 2 sucks. 

To respond to OP, 8s are admired b/c their superficial traits are glorified in the movies and so few peeps know 8s. What others don't consider is the wretchedness of integrating to 2. Once started, u can't easily undo that progress, and it stares u in the face every damn day.


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## RepairmanMan Man (Jan 21, 2012)

Word Dispenser said:


> Because my surface goals are knowledge. And if my instrinsic, instinctual goals were knowledge, then I would be awesome at accomplishing that. But instead, I'm somebody who seeks knowledge on the outside, but just wants to have fun and feel good on the inside.
> 
> I don't think that 7w6 has worthy goals.


I understand what you mean. Only too well. But I'm going to partially disagree--I think 7s of either wing have very worthy goals when, like the other types, they are put into perspective. We're the ones who can laugh amidst pain and uplift others from theirs--the world would be a much worse place without this gift. If we weren't happy and feeling good, we couldn't do this.

I think at their best, 7s _do_ acquire knowledge--of the outside world and its joy. That_ is_ knowledge seeking, and it's something 7s can share with the world. The problem is, at average levels, this experience-seeking becomes something closer to self-centered greed. 

Everyone is equally bad at average levels, though. No one has worthy goals, but at least the enneagram gives us a map of how to fix it.



Swordsman of Mana said:


> I'm not particularly proud of my type either. as has been said several times on this thread, your type highlights the darkest, most delusional aspects of your nature. anyone who is "proud" of their type is not approaching the enneagram correctly. that said, in another sense, I feel like I got one of the better ends of the bargain in many ways. compare, for instance, the psychological states of most 7s to most 4s. clearly life is a lot easier for most 7s than it is for most 4s


Thanks for articulating the difference here. This is ultimately how I realized I wasn't a 4--no matter how dark I can be, no matter how much I can wallow in my own negativity, no matter how much I may superficially resemble the type...this tends to clear up within minutes. I have a cousin who is a 4, and a little sister who _may _be a 4. Life is very difficult for them to navigate...although I confess to having difficulties in the social realm, overcoming/winning at life has always come very easily to me.

I know 4s have many, many things to compensate, but honestly I wouldn't really want to be any other way than how I was born. I'm sure my sister and cousin feel similarly about themselves, too.


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## Word Dispenser (May 18, 2012)

holyrockthrower said:


> I understand what you mean. Only too well. But I'm going to partially disagree--I think 7s of either wing have very worthy goals when, like the other types, they are put into perspective. We're the ones who can laugh amidst pain and uplift others from theirs--the world would be a much worse place without this gift. If we weren't happy and feeling good, we couldn't do this.
> 
> I think at their best, 7s _do_ acquire knowledge--of the outside world and its joy. That_ is_ knowledge seeking, and it's something 7s can share with the world. The problem is, at average levels, this experience-seeking becomes something closer to self-centered greed.
> 
> Everyone is equally bad at average levels, though. No one has worthy goals, but at least the enneagram gives us a map of how to fix it.


My mood does seem to uplift others and cause joy, by default. And that's great. I do enjoy it when it happens.

However, and I don't wanna sound like Selfish-Spice here, but to me, emotions are not really what's important. Not in me, and not in other people. It's a surface tendency, and it's shallow. There is more to people than what they feel. To me, emotions get in the way of what may be more important. I'm not here to serve and fulfill other people's emotional fancies.

Knowledge, creativity and imaginations don't happen through emotions. These things happen through the brain, our minds, our thought processes. Emotions may influence them, colour them, may even contribute to them on some level, but they are simply, in my opinion, the spice added to the pie. 

Without the spice, some of the flavour is missing, but you still have apple pie, and it can still taste awesome. 

That's not to say that emotions aren't _important_. They most certainly are. If we didn't have them, it's likely that we may choose cruelty over kindness, and decide to do terrible things based upon intellectual impulse (Perhaps instinctive impulse has more to do with emotion?)

And who wants bland apple pie?

But, let's get real here-- My motivations in life are more than making other people happy. I mean, what kind of main motivation is _that? _No offense. I mean, obviously there are numerous motivations, but that's not _my main_ motivation. I like to make people happy, but that's sort of... Well, again. The spice.

And when I consider the way human beings operate-- The way they selfishly treat animals, the environment, and blindly adhere to structural norms without question... There are so many variables. And making other people happy is a very day-to-day, face-to-face thing, it's a small detail, and doesn't have much to do with the greater whole.

I still think that being kind to others can have a domino effect, can, on a small scale, cause a 'pay it forward' kind of initiative. But, it obviously doesn't have an enormous impact on the whole social structure.

I hope I haven't offended-- I'm simply spouting out my thoughts on the subject.


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## TreeBob (Oct 11, 2008)

obstinatesnooperr said:


> Damn, girl. That was another punch to my gut - like reading the type 8 description all over again. Integration to 2 sucks.
> 
> To respond to OP, 8s are admired b/c their superficial traits are glorified in the movies and so few peeps know 8s. What others don't consider is the wretchedness of integrating to 2. Once started, u can't easily undo that progress, and it stares u in the face every damn day.


Why do you think integration to 2 sucks?


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## RepairmanMan Man (Jan 21, 2012)

Word Dispenser said:


> I hope I haven't offended-- I'm simply spouting out my thoughts on the subject.


No offense taken whatsoever. I am sure you have multiple motivations in life, many of which aren't even part of the enneagram. Nearly all of us do. I'm certainly far more than the caricature depicted by most enneagram descriptions.

I will say, I certainly do not exist to make people happy. Quite the contrary. But if you've ever gone through hell, you know how powerful it can be to laugh at pain and darkness. That's one thing I embrace in type 7, love it or leave it.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Word Dispenser said:


> My mood does seem to uplift others and cause joy, by default. And that's great. I do enjoy it when it happens.
> 
> However, and I don't wanna sound like Selfish-Spice here, but to me, emotions are not really what's important. Not in me, and not in other people. It's a surface tendency, and it's shallow. There is more to people than what they feel. To me, emotions get in the way of what may be more important. I'm not here to serve and fulfill other people's emotional fancies.
> 
> ...


1w2 fix. look it up =)


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## Word Dispenser (May 18, 2012)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> 1w2 fix. look it up =)


Nope. I'm definitely not a 1. At all. I mean, that's what your implying, right? 

I remember taking the Enneagram test thingie, and it came up with points into everything, except 1. 

I'm a very bubbly, enthusiastic and energetic person-- And I don't repress emotions. Far from that.

If you'd like to help me with my typing, I could direct you to my enneagram typing thread? It's got a lot of dispensed words, though. Walls of text can be... Interesting to climb over.

http://personalitycafe.com/whats-my-enneagram-type/100628-new-challenge-experts.html


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## Adasta (Nov 22, 2011)

aconite said:


> Somehow I got the impression that 4, 5 and 8 are the most desired types and most people would like to be one of these or at least identify with one (or more). Why, I have no idea
> 
> So, my question is: Fours, Fives and Eight, had you mistyped before you discovered your type? Why did it happen? How do you feel about your type now?


I think being a 7 sounds pretty cool.

I've always known I was a 4 ever since I found out about the enneagram. When I read about wings, I instantly knew I was a 4w5.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Word Dispenser said:


> Nope. I'm definitely not a 1. At all. I mean, that's what your implying, right?
> I remember taking the Enneagram test thingie, and it came up with points into everything, except 1.
> I'm a very bubbly, enthusiastic and energetic person-- And I don't repress emotions. Far from that.
> If you'd like to help me with my typing, I could direct you to my enneagram typing thread? It's got a lot of dispensed words, though. Walls of text can be... Interesting to climb over.
> http://personalitycafe.com/whats-my-enneagram-type/100628-new-challenge-experts.html


we're not talking about the same thing
I'm not talking about a core 1, I'm talking about being a 7 with a 1 fix (it would be your gut fix) a 1 fixer is very concerned with morality and is quick to point out "that's not right!" "people are so (insert adjective here)" "people have no concern for (insert important principle here)
1 fixers value integrity, decency, doing the right thing and speaking up when someone does something that goes against their values. I am a 1 fixed 7 myself :happy:


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## ShadoWolf (Jun 5, 2012)

Yes. I used to think I was a 6, and I may still lean toward that direction but now I am a 4. I'd like to say most people in 4,5, or 8 are intriguing but which can draw people in. I don't really think 4 though because of their independence. People probably want stable friendships. I actually would have to have a relationship with a 6, 2, or 3.


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## SilentScream (Mar 31, 2011)

I'm one of the ones who seriously consider 4w5, 5 and 8 at various points in my existence on the forum because I really did see parts of those descriptions in myself [and I still do -- especially with 7 and 8] 

The thing is that @_Spades_ is right --- we try to type ourselves based on incomplete information and sometimes based on gut reactions as well. However, there's nothing wrong in that either --- it's just how some of our minds work. 

It's some people's mentality/way of doing things to skim read information and try to immediately extrapolate new ideas and theories as soon as new information touches the mind. Chalk it up to lack of Te and Si [which are the functions that make a person more capable at scrutinizing new information]. For the feeling and reasoning types [Fe, Ti, Fi], assimilation of new information takes a little bit longer, and couple with Ne's tendency to extrovert new information is a way of assimilation in itself --- which is why I believe it's more obvious in the case of perceivers to jump around between types. Which is not to say that all perceivers skip around types most --- but it's a generalized trend that I've observed. 

However, I've also noticed that once a perceiver settles on a type, then he/she's got some of the strongest explanations/reasoning behind settling on it as well. 

The thing is we're all different people with different ways of processing/assimilating information - and therefore also different ways of judging other people as well. My core belief is to let people waver around types for as long as they need and spout whatever they want about particular types till they settle into the types that work best for them. 

What irks me are passive aggressive comments about poster's motivations for selecting/choosing certain types. At the end of the day, even if someone is selecting a 4, 5 or 8 type _just _to appear cool --- so the fuck what? 

Really, does it make any difference to anyone ... if so, why? I liken this to someone deciding to go out and copy Madonna's hairstyle, or dress up like Marylin Manson --- as long as they're not hurting me, or anyone else, what does it matter what type they choose for themselves? Why turn this forum into a stupid TV talk show where they bring in teenagers and judge their every action and humiliate them in front of the world? 

If people really are in it for the self-discovery, they'll discover it on their own eventually [with a little help and guidance from others on the forum] --- and when they do, they'll be able to integrate themselves. 

Based on my one year on this forum, I've realized that ultimately people really are here for self-discovery and in doing so will mistype. And even those who mistype and spout stereotypes, are regularly challenged by people who are more well-versed in certain aspects of various theories. 

My point is ... it balances out in the end.


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

Word Dispenser said:


> Well _I'm _not proud of being this type. I don't _want_ to be some kind of instinctual intrinsic pleasure-seeker. Sure, I'm enthusiastic and energetic, but that's just.. I mean, _anyone _could be enthusiastic and energetic, on a good day.
> 
> I wish my instinctual goals were knowledge.
> 
> ...


Knowledge is a means toward an end. Both the 5 and the 7 might seek it, for different purposes.


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## SilentScream (Mar 31, 2011)

Word Dispenser said:


> I wish I was a 5, 'cause I really do want to learn everything that I can, and understand the world. And it seems that 5s are just _good _at doing that, not _just _wanting to do that.


I completely disagree .. I probably have no hints of 5 in my type anywhere --- but I was still reading encyclopaedias when other kids my age were reading Hardy Boys. 

If you're motivated to gain/seek knowledge .. it doesn't mean that you're instantly a 5 .. but it means that you will continue to do so despite _not_ being a 5.


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## TreeBob (Oct 11, 2008)

The pursuit of information for a 5 is more of a coping mechanism for their fear and anxieties. They don't want to research they HAVE to in order to better equip themselves for whatever life puts in front of them.


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## Word Dispenser (May 18, 2012)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> we're not talking about the same thing
> I'm not talking about a core 1, I'm talking about being a 7 with a 1 fix (it would be your gut fix) a 1 fixer is very concerned with morality and is quick to point out "that's not right!" "people are so (insert adjective here)" "people have no concern for (insert important principle here)
> 1 fixers value integrity, decency, doing the right thing and speaking up when someone does something that goes against their values. I am a 1 fixed 7 myself :happy:


Hmmm... No, I don't _think_ so. Particularly because definitions change swiftly between what is right and wrong. I'm quite ambiguous. I'll be quick to say such one day, and switch based upon different variables. Thanks though.

I won't rule it out.


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## Chipps (Jun 1, 2011)

Word Dispenser said:


> Hmmm... No, I don't _think_ so. Particularly because definitions change swiftly between what is right and wrong. I'm quite ambiguous. I'll be quick to say such one day, and switch based upon different variables. Thanks though.
> 
> I won't rule it out.


I do the same thing and Im a 1 fixed 6. I think SOM is right (he's really observant and rarely wrong). Based on what you said, it sounds like the super ego at work. 8 is an id type, 9 is an ego type and 1 is the superego type. There are a ton of assumptions made about how 1s behaved or even 1 fixers. Don't believe that bullshit.


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## unico (Feb 3, 2011)

I'm a 4 and always typed as a 4. It didn't make me feel "special" as in more unique, but it really resonated with me. I have elements of other types in me, as everyone does, but 4 is by far the most predominant. I don't see it as desirable or undesirable -- just neutral. Overall, I like who I am, though I wish I could adapt better to society in general (though this is also my autism and mental illness that is to blame -- not just being a 4). I fit a lot of the healthier stereotypes of 4's and more of the unhealthy ones at points in the past, though I am not a stereotype and can seem a bit unusual for a 4 in some ways (for instance, the 9 in my tritype is pretty prevalent -- I think this may partially be because 9 is my favorite enneagram type so I subconsciously bring out those qualities).


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## obstinatesnooperr (Jan 24, 2010)

TreeBob said:


> Why do you think integration to 2 sucks?


Well, I suppose that integration for every type would suck, because you begin to accept your friends' feedback as accurate: that you actually do engage in the type of behavior they've been telling you you do.

To 2 sucks in particular b/c they're the touchy-feely-huggy-caring-on-the-outside type, and these are the things that I had locked away. When they surface, it's like constant road burn on the guts. I see when I am ____________ (eg. mean) now and get a searing dose of empathy for whomever. Once you've seen the other side, it's much harder to deny it exists.

Not to mention that i feel like a damn waterworks machine at every turn and apparently no longer have the ability to lock it down. It feels antithetical to my entire being. I enjoyed it for awhile, but now that I see what it really means, I'd rather go back. Argggh.


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## TreeBob (Oct 11, 2008)

obstinatesnooperr said:


> Well, I suppose that integration for every type would suck, because you begin to accept your friends' feedback as accurate: that you actually do engage in the type of behavior they've been telling you you do.
> 
> To 2 sucks in particular b/c they're the touchy-feely-huggy-caring-on-the-outside type, and these are the things that I had locked away. When they surface, it's like constant road burn on the guts. I see when I am ____________ (eg. mean) now and get a searing dose of empathy for whomever. Once you've seen the other side, it's much harder to deny it exists.
> 
> Not to mention that i feel like a damn waterworks machine at every turn and apparently no longer have the ability to lock it down. It feels antithetical to my entire being. I enjoyed it for awhile, but now that I see what it really means, I'd rather go back. Argggh.


To be honest, if anything it seems like you are just working your way up the mid healthy level. You are coming to grips with your problems/inadequacies etc... When you actually get to the stage where you are integrating I find it is actually quite nice. You are past the point where you feel bad about your issues and more accepting of who you are. Once you let go, you can kind of enjoy the touchy feely stuff. 

Around 2 or 3 years ago i was pretty bad and I can relate to some of what you are saying. It has taken a lot of work on my part to correct myself. I still occasionally revert if I am having a bad day, but generally I am a lot more content (Note, I am not claiming to be the healthiest 8 at all, just in good health).


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## aconite (Mar 26, 2012)

unico said:


> I fit a lot of the healthier stereotypes of 4's and more of the unhealthy ones at points in the past, though I am not a stereotype and can seem a bit unusual for a 4 in some ways (for instance, the 9 in my tritype is pretty prevalent -- I think this may partially be because 9 is my favorite enneagram type so I subconsciously bring out those qualities).


Oh, yes. When I read the 9 descriptions, I immediately thought "hey, I like it" - even 9-ish worse qualities weren't exactly unappealing to me. I thought that even though I'm not a core 9, I MUST have it in my tritype at least... but then again, the more I read about Nine, the more I was convinced that it's definitely not me. Maybe it's because my mother is a healthy, imaginative 9w1. I'm still considering 9w8 for my gut fix, but I have a sneaking suspicion that it's just wishful thinking.



dogdude2424 said:


> Yes. I used to think I was a 6, and I may still lean toward that direction but now I am a 4. I'd like to say most people in 4,5, or 8 are intriguing but which can draw people in. I don't really think 4 though because of their independence. People probably want stable friendships. I actually would have to have a relationship with a 6, 2, or 3.


Stability is overrated


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## SilentScream (Mar 31, 2011)

Cleo said:


> Because they aren't as much of a sex bomb as us Fours? Is that what you are talking about? Hehehe





aconite said:


> You wish you were half as sexy as 7s. We're the most gorgeous beings on the planet





Spades said:


> And we're extremely modest to boot!


Hah! See ... that's the diff right there. 3's know when to self-promote and how. Don't actually need to 'say' we're sexy to actually be sexy.

Pfft .. Amateurs


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## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

Jawz said:


> Hah! See ... that's the diff right there. 3's know when to self-promote and how. Don't actually need to 'say' we're sexy to actually be sexy.
> 
> Pfft .. Amateurs


Hahaha. Don't call me an amateur...


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## aconite (Mar 26, 2012)

Cleo said:


> Hahaha. Don't call me an amateur...


lol, do you have a 3 wing?


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## Choice (May 19, 2012)

Jawz said:


> I dunno about you, but the reason why 3's [especially 3w2s], 7's and 2's [more specifically 2w3's] get flack on forums is painfully obvious to me.


*Wait, why now?*

*looks at other numbers in tritype* I've adopted 8 & 4. so I suppose I idealize them in the same way I idealize myself ;P



Scruffy said:


> 8's are the "ultimate" badass, they are attractive because it is implied that they are impossible to hurt & fearless. Extremely comforting ideas to most people.


I've always wanted to be badass. I'm not so sure about wanting to be fearless though. If anything I kinda rush into stupid sht when I'm overly bold. The main reason why I'd sometimes like to be an 8 is that I want something I can relate to, but more grounded and less prone to over-thinking. Except when I read over some of the 8 stuff e.g. "attempt to defend themselves by rejecting others first", anger indulgence & sadism (which I'm admittedly proud of), I wanna divorce my 8-wing immediately. It can keep the dog.

5 stereotypes seem too withdrawn and un-artsy to me. 

4's: I suppose I admire some of the non-sp 4's I've met - having audacity to cry publicly and be emotional/ sometimes clingy in other ways whenever they want. It's the sort of vulnerability I'm attracted to, but can't copy without hating myself. 

At the moment (and I change my mind a lot about this), I admire 9's the most. They're extremely smart about when to be quiet; I've never seen a teacher pick on one even when they've got electronic devices under the desk. Plus, the ones I know have an insane ability to tune things out and work in noisy environments. Sometimes their detached expressions make them look like creepy zombies and it's really cool. Oh and if they're daydreaming, they don't get in trouble because it's their default face


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## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

aconite said:


> lol, do you have a 3 wing?


I don't believe I do actually though...



Jiktin said:


> *Wait, why now?*
> 
> *looks at other numbers in tritype* I've adopted 8 & 4. so I suppose I idealize them in the same way I idealize myself ;P
> 
> ...


Have you seen that SX 5 on Criminal Minds? Oh my God. He is soooo sexy. I want to tear him up.


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## SilentScream (Mar 31, 2011)

Cleo said:


> Hahaha. Don't call me an amateur...


Oh yah .. you're a 4  



Jiktin said:


> *Wait, why now?*


Maybe it has something to do with how functional most 2's, 3's and 7's are in the real world. Hence this forum [and others like it] seem to contain an inordinate amount of ranting about these three types.

Which is kinda un-needed imo ---- those who've seen the gooey innards of 2's, 3's, 7's [and even 8's] know full well the demons that haunt these types. It's just that they're much more adept at keeping it all in as opposed to wearing them on their sleeves.


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## TreeBob (Oct 11, 2008)

Cleo said:


> Have you seen that SX 5 on Criminal Minds? Oh my God. He is soooo sexy. I want to tear him up.


What character are you talking about and how would you actually type him a 5?


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## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

Jawz said:


> Oh yah .. you're a 4
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hey, you might be functional in the real world, but Fours are functional with the opposite sex, so watch out. Hehehe. Sorry, someone just sent my ego out of this world. I would love to tell you all about it.


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## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

TreeBob said:


> What character are you talking about and how would you actually type him a 5?


This guy.

Matthew Gray Gubler - IMDb

Oh my...

He gets a little quirky with his cerebral self, but he keeps a nice finess on it. I think he is a really mature 5. But before you asked me, I had not spent much time thinking about it, I just instantly noticed it probably the first time I ever saw him.

P.S. I love his vulnerability. I see it come out in the show a lot.


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## SilentScream (Mar 31, 2011)

Cleo said:


> Hehehe. Sorry, someone just sent my ego out of this world. I would love to tell you all about it.


 Thatz really nice to hear! You can tell me via VM or PM if you would like to.

/derail


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## aconite (Mar 26, 2012)

Cleo said:


> Hey, you might be functional in the real world, but Fours are functional with the opposite sex


And Sevens' functionality isn't limited to the opposite sex. Variety is a spice of life, isn't it?


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## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

aconite said:


> And Sevens' functionality isn't limited to the opposite sex. Variety is a spice of life, isn't it?


Oh, were not limited to the opposite sex. We just have mastered the opposite sex, which is the gateway to everything else. Watch out...


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## TreeBob (Oct 11, 2008)

Cleo said:


> This guy.
> 
> Matthew Gray Gubler - IMDb
> 
> ...


I figured it was him you were thinking of. It actually fits this thread too because I think you are mistyping him based on stereotypes. How is it you see what motivates him? He is obviously very learned, but that doesn't make him a 5. A 5 doesnt learn as a compulsion to do work. It is to prepare for and face the world. Protection of self


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## Curiously (Nov 7, 2011)

aconite said:


> And Sevens' functionality isn't limited to the opposite sex. *Variety is a spice of life, isn't it?*


It sure is! I think this is my dad's mantra btw.  Love you 7s.


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## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

TreeBob said:


> I figured it was him you were thinking of. It actually fits this thread too because I think you are mistyping him based on stereotypes. How is it you see what motivates him? He is obviously very learned, but that doesn't make him a 5. A 5 doesnt learn as a compulsion to do work. It is to prepare for and face the world. Protection of self


Hmmm... I didn't quite think about that. I just noticed his dark cerebral demeanor and that he is timid in the show, which I don't think it is acting. Maybe he is the combination of 5 and 3. I don't think he is a 4 or a 6 though.

Are you saying you do not like my side comments?


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## TreeBob (Oct 11, 2008)

Cleo said:


> Are you saying you do not like my side comments?


err no. I said your comment fit the thread.


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## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

To add to what I previously said, I often see people I think are full blown Fives to later realize it is only their secondary or third type. For some reason, even traces of that type, look so distinct to me. Am I the only one who does that?


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

Cleo said:


> To add to what I previously said, I often see people I think are full blown Fives to later realize it is only their secondary or third type. For some reason, even traces of that type, look so distinct to me. Am I the only one who does that?


One of the hardest things to know about a person can be their truest motivations. Upon observation alone, you can speculate and theorize all you like, but presumption will not do.

That being said, you might indeed have 5-dar.


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## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

Flatlander said:


> One of the hardest things to know about a person can be their truest motivations. Upon observation alone, you can speculate and theorize all you like, but presumption will not do.
> 
> That being said, you might indeed have 5-dar.


What is a 5-dar?

It isn't quite speculation though. The Enneagram is a way of measuring neurotransmitters and hormones. That is what causes a person's unique demeanor. With that approach, I might be off by a hair, but it has probably always been somewhat true.


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

Cleo said:


> What is a 5-dar?


Radar for spotting 5-ness, or 5-like tendencies.


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## The Scorched Earth (May 17, 2010)

I think Ones get a bum rap compared to other types, but I find them the most noble and heroic out of the whole circle. 1w2's specifically. Why does no one mistype as them?


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

@Swordsman of Mana:

Well, I am a 3w4 sp/sx with a definite 7 fix, and I am 98% sure that gut fix is 8. Though, I like exploring 1. Being core 3.. It really is no big deal, to be honest. I don't see any great advantage over being 7 first. sp/sx is an incredibly sensual person. Seriously, I find a lot of sp/sx men so intriguing and sexy.

In fact, I envy core 7 for their flying-by-the-seat-of their pants approach to life. I've seen 7s get ahead of me (temporarily), while still having fun, while I was slogging away like a fool. I love the 7 diva-ness, and their ability to take failures in their stride. It's incredibly sexy. 

If you were to ask what my 'ideal' type would be, for giggles, I'd say -- tritype 7w8 or even 7w6 - 3w2- 1w2 or 1w9. 

I really envy my 1w9 partner for his calm, 'regal' (that 1 decorum!), detached leadership style. I am a good leader, but I have passion bubbling over, and scares the fuckin crap out of people, if it's not impressing them (which is usually the case). 

I, naturally, have a poker face at work. I am very calm, reserved and professional. But, on inside, I am so full drive, dreams and passion. I come home, and I feel like an animal that's been freed into an open field. I feel so vital and alive, which I do at work as well..very productive, efficient..it feels amazing(.like being in my element) but letting the passion out in the privacy of my own home is blissful. 

I'd enjoy being a 7.


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## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

Boss said:


> @kaleidoscope
> I agree. Some people who mistype can be very annoying, because each time they pick a type, they try to act like they're 100% confident that they're that type. And, they go around "posing" as said type which does feed into the misinformation and can cause more mistypes, because a lot of people online are making the mistake of typing by comparison.
> 
> Most of these mistypes are mature, and overtime, realize that they're mistyped. I try to be patient with them, because as I have said all along, some do genuinely have strong elements of said type while others are annoying wannabes. I ignore the latter, as long as they don't get in my face and try to 'defend' their chosen type.


I have heard people say, "I do this because I am a _" as an excuse to have down syndrome or whatever their problem is, and then they find out they have a different type. Haha


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Dark Romantic said:


> Lol, I keep thinking, if I were a 3, I would have avoided making so many unnecessary mistakes in my life thus far. I'd probably be a millionaire by now (or well on the way to becoming one). 'Course, I doubt I would have had as much fun, so I can live with that. :wink:


I think there are two major skills the type 7 struggles with
- the ability to put off short term pleasure for long term pleasure
- the ability to will oneself self through long periods of hard work for rewards that lie far in the future

I am actually pretty good at the former (most than most non 7s actually) but I SUCK at the latter. I am a lazy little slug and I have trouble doing any work from which I won't get results from soon.


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## Arrow (Mar 2, 2012)

Boss said:


> Many of them are 6s, and even RH who have conducted plenty of research in their field, have concluded that 6s notoriously mistype as 4s and 8s. As for why, I'll answer if you ask. I don't want to lengthen the post, unnecessarily on this point. *It's notable, however, that not every mistyped 4 is automatically a 6. Some are 7s, even 5s (I've seen 5w4s with a strong wing, mistype as 4w5) and some are 9s.
> *


I would be interested in hearing why this happens. 

As to the main post I think I do kind of glorify the image of the 7 while not warming up to the image of the 6 and 9. I think part of that reason is that I want balance within myself and 4 is a pretty dark Enneagram type to have, I think I need the 7 to lighten me up. At the same time the inaction of the 9 terrifies me to the point where I kind of want to run screaming into the night because I can't imagine giving up so much control of my life the way that they are said to by just not reacting. It's one of my biggest fears to be so inactive that I just stop interacting with the outside world and just go with the flow. 

But more then anything I think a lot of this just comes from the image I receive from the information I have absorbed when I am detached from it. For instance it's not that I don't like 6 for instance it's just that I don't feel that anxious and I don't feel that level of anxiety running threw me like they are said too.

As to mistypes I have felt like every Enneagram type except 8. That's the only one I haven't felt any kinship with.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Boss said:


> @Swordsman of Mana:
> 
> Well, I am a 3w4 sp/sx with a definite 7 fix, and I am 98% sure that gut fix is 8. Though, I like exploring 1. Being core 3.. It really is no big deal, to be honest. I don't see any great advantage over being 7 first. sp/sx is an incredibly sensual person. Seriously, I find a lot of sp/sx men so intriguing and sexy.
> 
> ...


LOL it seems like I think your type is ideal and you think mine is ideal. if only we could switch :laughing:
PS: especially if I could steal ENTJ from you too lol


Edit: if sounds like you might get the hots for this guy


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## Dark Romantic (Dec 27, 2011)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> I think there are two major skills the type 7 struggles with
> - the ability to put off short term pleasure for long term pleasure
> - the ability to will oneself self through long periods of hard work for rewards that lie far in the future


Definitely. I had to learn the former, the latter is something I'm still working on.



> I am a lazy little slug and I have trouble doing any work from which I won't get results from soon.


LOL same. The only exception is when I see something really, REALLY good at the end, in which case, I'll just look for ways to work around the annoying parts.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Dark Romantic said:


> Definitely. I had to learn the former, the latter is something I'm still working on.
> LOL same. The only exception is when I see something really, REALLY good at the end, in which case, I'll just look for ways to work around the annoying parts.


w6 and Sp/Sx probably help me with the first one. I would imagine as a 7w8 Sx/So, you're probably tempted to do a lot crazier shit than me lol


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Ice Ghost said:


> I think Ones get a bum rap compared to other types, but I find them the most noble and heroic out of the whole circle. 1w2's specifically. Why does no one mistype as them?


I mistyped as a 1 for awhile. I have a strong 1 fix and in the past was extremely harsh, critical, dogmatic and rigid about certain principles I've held.


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## Dark Romantic (Dec 27, 2011)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> w6 and Sp/Sx probably help me with the first one. I would imagine as a 7w8 Sx/So, you're probably tempted to do a lot crazier shit than me lol


LOL I have definitely done some crazy shit. Feel like I haven't done enough yet, though. :frustrating: THE LIFE OF A SEVEN LOL.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Dark Romantic said:


> LOL I have definitely done some crazy shit. Feel like I haven't done enough yet, though. :frustrating: THE LIFE OF A SEVEN LOL.


I'm too much of a coward to do any crazy shit. so I'm stuck doing safe shit


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## Dark Romantic (Dec 27, 2011)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> I'm too much of a coward to do any crazy shit. so I'm stuck doing safe shit


LOL I lost the thread for a second there...

To be quite honest, I'm playing it safe right now; I've had to learn to restrain my tendency to get a little greedy and impulsive, and to be honest, I'd rather start moving forward instead of chasing my own tail... the urge here is to chase my own tail, stop, and then move forward, which I can't really do. For instance, right now, I'm fighting the urge to leave my house, call as many random people I know who are probably out right now, do a shitload of drugs, make things happen, and have a wild-ass adventure. I'm not gonna do it... but the temptation is there.


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## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

Cleo said:


> I have heard people say, "I do this because I am a _" as an excuse to have down syndrome or whatever their problem is, and then they find out they have a different type. Haha


This!! Mental health problems like Borderline Personality Disorder, Histrionic Personality disorder WILL make you mistype as a Four. People don't get that at all. :\


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## aconite (Mar 26, 2012)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> I think there are two major skills the type 7 struggles with
> - the ability to put off short term pleasure for long term pleasure
> - the ability to will oneself self through long periods of hard work for rewards that lie far in the future


I can deal with the former, not so much with the latter. Basically, I have two modes: lazy procrastinator and restless workaholic, but neither lasts for long.



Boss said:


> Great thread topic.


Thanks.



Boss said:


> 1. I don't believe 4,5, 8 are rare types as much as they're widely misunderstood because of all the stereotypes and half-baked info. circulating around forums.


I don't know how rare is each type. Considering my friends, family and acquaintances, I'd say that 8s are least common, but that's only anecdotal evidence - maybe Eights and I repel each other IRL, lol.

And there's the descripton of 458 tritype... called "the darkest" and "the most intense", "intelligent", "headstrong", "hyper introspective problem solver with strategic thinking and emotional astuteness" etc. - I can see how it appear very attractive to certain people. Hey, when I read that thread for the first time, I thought it could be me 


Boss said:


> Many of them are 6s, and even RH who have conducted plenty of research in their field, have concluded that 6s notoriously mistype as 4s and 8s. As for why, I'll answer if you ask. I don't want to lengthen the post, unnecessarily on this point. *It's notable, however, that not every mistyped 4 is automatically a 6. Some are 7s, even 5s (I've seen 5w4s with a strong wing, mistype as 4w5) and some are 9s.*


Yes, I would be interested in hearing why does it happen. Maybe it deserves a new thread, since it's an interesting issue?



Boss said:


> _Again, 5 fills the isolated, iconoclastic genius cliche that appeals to the nerdy crowd lol , teens in the sciences (no joke) and again, others who genuinely have strong 5 elements in their personality. A lot of people don't realize that 5s drive for knowledge is a coping mechanism. It's a pathologically detached type that feels incapable of being a part of the outside world and engaging actively in it (it drains their "life force" so to speak, which is why 5s withdraw to the safety of their minds to keep from being intruded upon, to avoid being overwhelmed). There is a darker side to each of these types that a lot of people are ignorant about._ That said, it's presumptuous to assume that everyone who mistypes as a 5 is a wannabe.


Of course. It's very common for some MBTI types (IxTx especially) to seem 5-ish and to get 5 as a top result in tests (myself included). I had a gut feeling, though, that I wasn't a Five. The behaviour was similar, the motivation - not so much.



Boss said:


> _Phew! It's true that there are people, again usually younger people, who are attracted to the badass image of 8s. Many people, simultaneously, crap on people for mistyping as 8s because of these stereotypes, while barfing these stereotypes themselves. 8s are romanticized and glorified on forums like it's nobody's business._
> * But, again, not everyone who mistypes as an 8 does it for a cool label. And not everyone who mistypes as an 8 feels "afraid" and is looking for a cool label to feel better. *It may be a true for some, but it is NOT true for a lot of mistyped 8s. *The statement also indirectly alludes to the possibility that everyone who mistypes as an 8, is by default, a cp6 trying to cover up their insecurity or whatever. *


Sure. I think it would be quite easy for all assertive types (esp. 7w8) to mistype as 8, or at least assume that they're 8-fixed.
Quite ironically, I found a psychology forum in my native language, and I've noticed that 8 aren't glorified there - quite the opposite. Nines seem to be the most appreciated type there. Maybe it's specific to that particular forum, or maybe it's an effect of cultural differences, I don't know. I think that contemporary European culture is 9-ish, FWIW.



Boss said:


> *a)* _*All id types and cp6s have a lot in common, at least behaviourally, with core 8s*_.


I agree. Wholeheartedly.



Boss said:


> I have also seen male 2s mistype as 8s, as well as integrating assertive 5s--some of whom were older and mature, and least concerned with tacking on a label.


Does it work the other way around? Are female 8s prone to be mistyped as 2s?


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

yes, it happens. Older, mature 8 ladies may possibly mistype as 2s. They can certainly seem somewhat 2-ish, because of 8s line of integration.

Btw, I am working on creating a new thread addressing the 6 mistype and a bunch of other stuff that has come up around the E forum.


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## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

@_Boss_

I totally understand what you're saying, and I agree. I don't think mistypes happen because people want to be this type, it's mostly because they don't understand what the type is about. If they did, I don't think most would like to be Fours. Still, I feel like some people, upon being told that they have mistyped, have a reaction along the lines of "Are you saying I'm not special/deep enough to be a Four ??", like I'm insulting them or something. 

I made the mistake of thinking I had an Eight gut fix simply because I was aggressive and assertive when I needed to be. But just like not every person who seeks knowledge is a Five, not every person who is assertive is an Eight. It's the underlying motives, and WHY the person is assertive, aggressive, seeks knowledge, feels misunderstood that really matters. Upon understanding this, suddenly the enneagram was much clearer to me.

Anyway, I would love to see you post a thread like that. If you could clarify in that thread what it means to ACTUALLY be a 4, 5 or 8 that would be really awesome.


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## paper lilies (Dec 6, 2011)

A lot of people mistype simply because they have an ideal type in mind, which can be seen in some "type me" threads. When the ideal type is "threatened" it seems that the typee lashes out at the typers for not confirming the ideal. That in of itself would tell the typers that you're definitely not the idealized type you want to be.

Also, Type 8 doesn't always come across as "angry". I have seen typee's claim to be 8's simply because they get angry or perhaps they've punched someone in their lifetime, who knows (laughs). My grandfather is an ISTP 8w9 and he does not constantly get angry at all. He's quite solid and has an overall sturdiness in his disposition. It would take a fair shit load for him to get legitimately angry. He laughs at things more than anything else, honestly.


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## Choice (May 19, 2012)

Jawz said:


> Which is kinda un-needed imo ---- those who've seen the gooey innards of 2's, 3's, 7's [and even 8's] know full well the demons that haunt these types. It's just that they're much more adept at keeping it all in as opposed to wearing them on their sleeves.


Huh? I complain about boredom all the time, unless you mean repression of disappointment or something. Anyway, 1's are more valued in my culture whereas 7's are the stereotypical rebellious, immature children who grow up to become responsible and serious (ewww). I get quite annoyed when this happens in TV dramas. It's like their demeanor changes 180 degrees, and then they achieve more but look all depressed from the loss of spunk.



Boss said:


> *b) *People who do not have much in common with 4s, but misunderstand the type due to lack of significant research, availability of good material and introspection. These people usually respond well when helpful material is shared and sound reasoning is presented. Many of them are 6s, and even RH who have conducted plenty of research in their field, have concluded that 6s notoriously mistype as 4s and 8s. As for why, I'll answer if you ask. I don't want to lengthen the post, unnecessarily on this point. *It's notable, however, that not every mistyped 4 is automatically a 6. Some are 7s, even 5s (I've seen 5w4s with a strong wing, mistype as 4w5) and some are 9s.
> *


I'm curious, what are the most common factors which contribute to 6's misidentifying as 4's?


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

@Jiktin
I'll address it on my thread. Wait for a few days. I am a bit preoccupied.


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## 543222187 (Apr 4, 2012)

Cleo said:


> You didn't ask me to stop stereotyping, you told me, and you put and exclamation mark at the end of it. Furthermore, there is nothing that indicates that I am stereotyping. You might be assuming that, which you could be wrong, and probably are, because I never said that all intellectual people are Fives and if someone did say that, it does not automatically qualify as a stereotype.
> 
> Furthermore, I disagree with having to know someone personally to know their motivations and I do believe the Enneagram shows on the exterior. This is not cut and dry though, but moreso theory, and although you may strongly believe it, it's still up for discussion.


.

..i have not gone into my friend....she is very eccentric....outright different from everyone else i've ever met....that's where i get jealous.....i mean carefree as in not caring about people etc....just her own imagination....shes often out of it making hand motions to herself and is lost in a fantasy world....when you talk to her she just expresses everything......and says whatever making people around you wonder what is wrong with her...she has no real idealized image of a rescuer....she often just delves in these worlds......making up stories and then equally discarding them with no emotion....likewise my older sister while less imaginative is useless and refuses to make choices of her major...she hates jobs in themselves...she hates practical results....she is either a 5w6 or a 6w5 with a strong wing....


....as for me...i felt 4 because it describes how i am when i react to conflict....how i am in society...what a leech i am...the disintegration was what really made me think i was a 4....and what i integrate into....what is 6 of me is that there are some things when reading that i said yes that's me but i do not identify in the way they disintegrate or integrate....


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## 543222187 (Apr 4, 2012)

....yeah but the women tend to have less freedom than men......yes, i realize the older cultures did have more regard to emotions, etc, but i feel that there is something contained about them....they're holding something back.....if they were truly 4 i feel they would have less rules....


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## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

I don't really see what you mean by women having more or less freedom than men there or how that has to do with the post I just made. But just like I have a serious issue with how people have false ideas about withdrawn personalities, I have a serious issue with people throwing other cultures in the trash, especially in regards to qualities we could learn from. I am not saying that is what you are doing, I don't know.


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## Lunar (May 2, 2012)

@Febe
Be careful to not confuse the idea western society created and diffused about islam and what really is. And remember that that there are different vertents of islamism. 
Are you familiar with sufism? 
And there are other eastern socities that values feeling more than ours.


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## 543222187 (Apr 4, 2012)

@Cleo...i said "tend"....this doesn't mean always.....

...i am aware of other eastern cultures....they are more open than western from what iv'e heard/seen of......


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## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

Well, I still don't really understand what your point is, because I'm not sure how many Muslim women would agree to that and one could argue that my freedom has a damper on it, due to sexuality constantly being dehumanized and thrown in my face everywhere I turn around. I don't feel very free, when I can't go to work without men playing R rated movies in front of me.


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## 543222187 (Apr 4, 2012)

....meh....from what i know which may be biased....its the leader of the mosque in some islamic countries that determines the rules....so sometimes they are forced to have to wear a burqa but others they don't need to....sometimes their access to education is limited...sometimes it's not....as for men watching r-rated movies...that's them....you can tell them to stop...if not....you have to tolerate....i have libertarian somewhat anarchist beliefs so you may just disregard anything i say.....


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## Lunar (May 2, 2012)

@_Cleo_ I can't thank you enough on this. I coul go on and on about how woman are treated on western culture and the expectations imposed on us, but you know, I just don't have the energy right now. Men are not free either, since we seem to expect them to be a insesitive pillar of strenght. 
And really, that's was not the point. It's was not about arabic religion or politics, but their culture. When you see their art you can observe how truly poetic and passionate they can be. My favorite poet was a islamic sufi, Rumi (Look for his poems, they're truly beautiful and full of sentiment). And the enneagram itself has islamic sufi origins.


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## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

Lunar said:


> @_Cleo_ I can't thank you enough on this. I coul go on and on about how woman are treated on western culture and the expectations imposed on us, but you know, I just don't have the energy right now. Men are not free either, since we seem to expect them to be a insesitive pillar of strenght.
> And really, that's was not the point. It's was not about arabic religion or politics, but their culture. When you see their art you can observe how truly poetic and passionate they can be. My favorite poet was a islamic sufi, Rumi (Look for his poems, they're truly beautiful and full of sentiment). And the enneagram itself has islamic sufi origins.


Wow I didn't know that about the Enneagram. I haven't seen much Arabic art either. And yes it has consequences on men... in various areas. You are welcome.


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## 543222187 (Apr 4, 2012)

Lunar said:


> @_Cleo_ I can't thank you enough on this. I coul go on and on about how woman are treated on western culture and the expectations imposed on us, but you know, I just don't have the energy right now. Men are not free either, since we seem to expect them to be a insesitive pillar of strenght.
> And really, that's was not the point. It's was not about arabic religion or politics, but their culture. When you see their art you can observe how truly poetic and passionate they can be. My favorite poet was a islamic sufi, Rumi (Look for his poems, they're truly beautiful and full of sentiment). And the enneagram itself has islamic sufi origins.



....I thought that muslims only did abstract art because physical objects were said to be a temptation or threat to the worship of Allah.....


...i do not disagree with the expectations placed on men and women in western culture...but i don't care...i do as I please......


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## NingenExp (Apr 4, 2011)

When I was introduced to the enneagram theory I typed myself as a 4 (contrary to my friends' opinion that I was a 5). My approach to the enneagram was really objective, but not profound or significant at that time. It was just "for fun", to entertain ourselves with something. School was boring. Then the time passed by and I became obsessed about it. I find "being" a 4 really appealing. I have idealized type 4 a lot, but I also know I'm not one of them and I actually "envy" fours. I know my opinions are not really "rational", but I have found the victim role really "interesting". Desiring to "be" a four was not something I suppose a four would desire. I really never identified with the misunderstood, overdramatic and different from others guy. Yes, I have low self-esteem. Yes, I'm a loner. Yes, people get tired of my needy dilemma spitting out self. Yes, I hate feeling forgotten. Yes, I'm self-absorbed, selfish, self-centered and self-conscious. Yes, I'm obsessed with finding my identity. And yes, I want to find it to portray it proudly. Yes, I want to intensify the push-pull in my relationships. Yes, I want to suffer more. Yes, I know it's stupid to wish it. Yes, I'm masochist. Yes other blah blah blahs. But what I hate the most is stress, having a lot of noise in my head, not being able to sleep or rest or even relax, being so anxious, feeling so useless, that I'm wasting my time, being pretty self-critical and stuff. I'm not a four, my worst is a 6, being hyper vigilant, feeling parnaoid sometimes, wanting to keep my eyes open but feeling they are going to pop out. That's my worst. And being in terms of others and admitting or even realizing my behaviours are fear caused makes me feel the worst person in the whole planet. And being so restless, questionning everything, not getting my head clearer. God! Feeling this is hell. Six is my hell!


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## Lunar (May 2, 2012)

@Febe Not all arabs are muslim! And not all their art is religious! People do not appear only in specifically religious art, but they are represented in other ways. Their art seeks to portray the meaning and essence of things, rather than just their physical form. And what about their literature and poetry? I'm sorry, I don't mean to sound rude, but what you said is just not true. What about the Taj Mahal, a monument of the love of a muslim king for his wife, full of inscriptions of the quran?

Reason is powerless 
in the expression of Love. 
Love alone is capable of revealing 
the truth of Love and being a 
Lover. The way of our prophets is 
the way of Truth. If you want to live, 
die in Love; die in Love if you 
want to remain alive. 
-Rumi

Ok, I'm just totally off topic right now, I'm sorry.


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## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

Febe said:


> ....meh....from what i know which may be biased....its the leader of the mosque in some islamic countries that determines the rules....so sometimes they are forced to have to wear a burqa but others they don't need to....sometimes their access to education is limited...sometimes it's not....as for men watching r-rated movies...that's them....you can tell them to stop...if not....you have to tolerate....i have libertarian somewhat anarchist beliefs so you may just disregard anything i say.....


What you have been saying from the beginning is extremely bias, considering, I brought up a characteristic of their culture and you responded with something completely off topic, uninformed, and negative; which you are still doing it. There is much more behind decisions made for a group of people, than what you see on the surface. My suggestion to you, is to be very careful when it comes to comments you make about other cultures. As far as me having an issue with innapropriate behavior at work... your attitude towards that was really offensive too.


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## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

I wonder if the moderator for this thread is the same person who has problems with "stereotyping" personalities.


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## TreeBob (Oct 11, 2008)

Cleo said:


> I wonder if the moderator for this thread is the same person who has problems with "stereotyping" personalities.


Calling me out in that manner is unwise. If you have an issue then report it. Stereotyping personalities is the same as stereotyping cultures on this forum. Both are typically bad things to do.


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## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

TreeBob said:


> Calling me out in that manner is unwise. If you have an issue then report it. Stereotyping personalities is the same as stereotyping cultures on this forum. Both are typically bad things to do.


Well maybe you should take care of it.


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## TreeBob (Oct 11, 2008)

Cleo said:


> Well maybe you should take care of it.


Report your issue and one of my staff may take care of it.


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## Lunar (May 2, 2012)

@*NingenExp* If it makes you feel better, you already sound tortured enough without being a 4. XD

People who mistype themselves because they'd like to be something cool or special should remember the enneagram is not who you are but a powerful tool to help you to become a more evolved human being by showing you the reason behind your fears, passions and vices. T
here are interesting and deep personalities in every point of the enneagram. As there are annoying and dull people in all them too. Yes, this is a cliché thing to say, but people continue to ignore this. 
I really don't think enneagram should be about identifying yourself with an archetype. Use it as a tool and stay out of the box.


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## NingenExp (Apr 4, 2011)

@Lunar, thanks. Weird to say it, but thanks. Maybe I looked for it. I have misused the enneagram several times. My post was a frank call for action (directed from me to me). I recognize I have used the enneagram as a tool for identification with an archetype, as you said in your post. Honestly, being a six was kind of repulsive for me. Six was not the problem, because I have nothing against them; I was in denial, that's it. I was against me being a six (and the worst part was that I was against me u.u). The truth is that I was more than numbers. I just needed to stay out of boxes. 4,5,8 - The cool types? I'm cool too. The whole enneagram is cool. Being human is cool. Struggling, but still fighting. I'm a silent warrior, but I will prevail. xD The enneagram is a powerful tool if you use it correctly. But I also think that discovering your faults without classifying them or organizing them in a ridiculous way, restlessly, as I did, its a great path indeed; you can work on them directly too. Well, obviously you will suffer the process, but you will enjoy the results, I hope so. I don't know why, but being labeled has some sort of charm. It's like a huge temptation. I will not fall for it, no more. At least not in the unhealthy way I did.


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## aconite (Mar 26, 2012)

Cleo said:


> Sevens seem to have that All American ideal personality.


What's the "All American ideal personality"?


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## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

aconite said:


> What's the "All American ideal personality"?


Extraverted.


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## aconite (Mar 26, 2012)

Cleo said:


> Extraverted.


Not all Sevens are extroverts.


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## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

aconite said:


> Not all Sevens are extroverts.


I don't know if you are itching to jump on the stereotyping band wagon, because I never said that they were, but since you bring it up, there are different ways of measuring extraversion. The Enneagram describes 7s as generally being extraverted. If you are referring to the MBTI, I didn't even bring that up. So, I don't quite understand your statement.


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## aconite (Mar 26, 2012)

Cleo said:


> I don't know if you are itching to jump on the stereotyping band wagon, because I never said that they were, but since you bring it up, there are different ways of measuring extraversion. The Enneagram describes 7s as generally being extraverted. If you are referring to the MBTI, I didn't even bring that up. So, I don't quite understand your statement.


Stop with that straw man arguments. I don't care for the "stereotyping band wagon".

First, you said that Sevens seem to have "All American personality". Then you explained that it means extraversion. And then you claim to never have said that Sevens were extroverts. It is I who doesn't understand. Note that I didn't say anything about MBTI.


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## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

aconite said:


> Stop with that straw man arguments. I don't care for the "stereotyping band wagon".
> 
> First, you said that Sevens seem to have "All American personality". Then you explained that it means extraversion. And then you claim to never have said that Sevens were extroverts. It is I who doesn't understand. Note that I didn't say anything about MBTI.


The previous statement wasn't an all or none statement. I still said that 7s are generally extraverted and I never said you mentioned the MBTI, but it seemed you were referring to that, which is why I brought it up. I still don't get what your point is and considering it seems your purpose was to provoke, I don't care either. So maybe you should report it or get over it.


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## aconite (Mar 26, 2012)

Cleo said:


> I forgot about the original statement a while back, which it still wasn't an all or none statement and I still said that 7s are generally extraverted, not on the MBTI, which I never said you mentioned, but it seemed you were referring to that, which is why I brought it up. I still don't get what your point is and considering it seems your purpose was to provoke, I don't care either. So maybe you should report it or get over it.


Why would I report you? I asked for clarification, since I had no idea what All American personality is and how would it describe Sevens. There was absolutely nothing provocative about my questions and frankly, I see absolutely no point in provoking you.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

Cleo said:


> The previous statement wasn't an all or none statement. I still said that 7s are generally extraverted and I never said you mentioned the MBTI, but it seemed you were referring to that, which is why I brought it up. I still don't get what your point is and considering it seems your purpose was to provoke, I don't care either. So maybe you should report it or get over it.


I don't think aconite was trying to provoke you.


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

Back on topic, I actually don't see anything mystifying about 4s, 5s and 8s. I mistyped as 8 long back, but not because the type provided me a cool new identity. I knew then, as I know now, that I am the same person and switching a label or picking one didn't change anything. 8 hit me in places that hurt, and I hadn't completely understood the type because I had mostly browsed online descriptions. Also, I had certain experiences that correlated with the childhood patterns for the type, and back in the day, I didn't know that these were just guidelines not typing tools. Because of my fix, I have a lot in common with 8. If you think about it, it's not easy being an 8. It's somewhat isolating, I'd think. 8s issues with anger, vengefulness and loss of innocence are no cake walk. Looking back, I'd say that I'd rather not be an 8.

As for 4s, I don't want to sound silly here, but a 4s emotional masochism is just really alien to me. 4 is an incredibly intense and conflicted type, and again, I'd hate to be a 4. I avoid grief and pain like no one else, so being a type that can, quite positively, indulge in this feels very uncomfortable. I have a 4 wing and all, but no thanks, I do not want to be a 4. It's sounds like tough shit.

And 5s, a lot of people go gaga over type 5 because of connotations of superior intelligence when that is bullshit. I've talked about it already. I'd personally never want to be a type that withdraws to prevent being intruded upon by the environment and acquires knowledge to overcome feelings of incapability. Once again, this doesn't sound like a very peachy existence. 

So, I actually think these types are needlessly idealized. These types don't have it easy, at all. This is not to say that neuroses that other types deal grapple with are a damn joke in comparison. We're all trapped in our ego's illusions, and it's a difficult journey for all. From where I am standing, 4, 5 and 8 are least appealing seem most conflicted or even inwardly tortured, in some ways.


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## Owfin (Oct 15, 2011)

Yeah, looking at it objectively I honestly don't see anything that sets a 4 or a 5 or a 8 apart as being particularly interesting in their issues, they seem to just fit in with the rest of them.


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## Lunar (May 2, 2012)

@_NingenExp_ You're welcome! I understand you. I also have struggled with a desire to find a solid personality. There's the temptation to want to identify yourself with an archetype. And we all want to feel special. Some enneagram specialists reflect their own values when describing the ennea types. Riso-Hudson make 4 and 5 look pretty interesting and give 3 and 6 generic and dull descriptions. People don't want to be like this, and they're not. Research more, and look for the truth. I doubt someone who is correctly typed will feel all warm and happy about the enneagram. It's ugly because our vices and shadows are ugly. 

I believe that this idea of 4s being the artists of enneagram is BS and it's one of the reasons people keep mistyping themselves. Creativity is not connected to a melancholic and troubled personality. All types create art, because art can reflect anything: happiness, sadness, despair, peace, fear... And not all 4s will express their emotions trough art.

Another thing, all 4s may have the desire to be original and unique, but this doesn't mean they all are. Many people in their desire to be special lose all their real originality. Being a 4 many times come with the secret feeling of being a fraud.


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## aconite (Mar 26, 2012)

Lunar said:


> Being a 4 many times come with the secret feeling of being a fraud.


Why? Where does the feeling come from? Is it because 4s never feel authentic enough, or something else?


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## Lunar (May 2, 2012)

@_aconite_ I will try to explain without offending sensitive 4s XD. 
We're an image type, and the image 4s seek is unique, original, special. 4s have a natural hability to identify what is truly original. I see the uniqueness in others. I envy it, I want it. Why can't I be this real and special? Well, I can present myself in a exotic way. But is this really me, or just a calculated persona I made up to show to the world? This is not me, it's a fraud. Who am I? 

In the end, I don't really feel like a special snowflake. I feel like a mess and I hate myself.


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## aconite (Mar 26, 2012)

Thank you for the explanation 



Lunar said:


> But is this really me, or just a calculated persona I made up to show to the world?


I asked myself the same question once or twice. Weird thing.


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## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

Boss said:


> As for 4s, I don't want to sound silly here, but a 4s emotional masochism is just really alien to me. 4 is an incredibly intense and conflicted type, and again, I'd hate to be a 4. I avoid grief and pain like no one else, so being a type that can, quite positively, indulge in this feels very uncomfortable. I have a 4 wing and all, but no thanks, I do not want to be a 4. It's sounds like tough shit.


Woohoo, finally!! I don't think people grasp that Fours are a painfully uncomfortable and uncomfortably painful type. It's *so *easy to get caught in a vicious cycle. I'm not trying to minimize other type's problems, but I do feel that because of our tendency to focus on what's missing, because of this feeling we have of just not fitting in, of being somehow different, but mostly because of this emotional masochism, we're doomed to a downward spiral. Really, once you're caught in that, it's very hard to break the cycle. 

I can just mope around for days over something bad that happened simply because I relish the feeling of melancholy. Everything I experience, I run in my head over and over to sort of get as much emotional experience out of it, and if I don't, I fantasize and create unlikely scenarios that make me more and more detached from reality. I even fantasize about fucking break ups, fights, people I care about leaving me, just because of how it makes me feel. 

Because of all this by the way, my cognitive functions recently have been: Fi-Si-Ni. Aka, I'm literally isolated from reality :sad:

*Tl;dr: Fours aren't a special snowflake type. I dislike it, 99% of the time. *


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## Lunar (May 2, 2012)

aconite said:


> Thank you for the explanation
> 
> 
> I asked myself the same question once or twice. Weird thing.



You're welcome! It's tiring, isnt it? This enternal quest for identity.
I see you have a 4w3 fix. I believe this "made up persona" thing is even stronger for us with a 3 wing, since we tend to be more external world oriented. 


Honestly, since I found myself in the enneagram, I just can't shake off the impression that 4 is the weakest point. I mean, sometimes I can even function properly because of an intense emotion. Relationships are so complicated too!


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## aconite (Mar 26, 2012)

Lunar said:


> You're welcome! It's tiring, isnt it? This enternal quest for identity.


I'm not a genuine 4  but I can relate.



Lunar said:


> I see you have a 4w3 fix. I believe this "made up persona" thing is even stronger for us with a 3 wing, since we tend to be more external world oriented.


Yes, I think so. I hardly ever care what others think of me, but when I do, I want to avoid being seen as boring, mundane, banal etc.


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## madhatter (May 30, 2010)

Boss said:


> Back on topic, I actually don't see anything mystifying about 4s, 5s and 8s. I mistyped as 8 long back, but not because the type provided me a cool new identity. I knew then, as I know now, that I am the same person and switching a label or picking one didn't change anything. *8 hit me in places that hurt*, and I hadn't completely understood the type because I had mostly browsed online descriptions.


I mistyped as 9 for the same reason...there were things about 9 that were like a sucker punch, but I think that 5 and 9 share some of the same traits, being both withdrawing types. 9 may also be my gut-fix, but that's still under review. 



> I'd personally never want to be a type that withdraws to prevent being intruded upon by the environment and acquires knowledge to overcome feelings of incapability. Once again, this doesn't sound like a very peachy existence.


It's not. I have experienced much needless pain and loneliness over the years because of it.


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## Arrow (Mar 2, 2012)

Boss said:


> So, I actually think these types are needlessly idealized. These types don't have it easy, at all...From where I am standing, 4, 5 and 8 are least appealing seem most conflicted or even inwardly tortured, in some ways.


I think that may be why they are idealized by some (not say all) there is an image not just that those types are "great" but that those types are hard and they get both ends of the spectrum they could be perceived as the true tortured types that have more "depth" and because of that tortured image persons in pain could feel one with them. The 4/5 in particular carries with it a connotation of no one could ever understand me and 8 in general is a very masculine role that I think any male would probably want to see himself as in comparison to a few other types. It's almost as if the types themselves come with their own back story's and I think that's why some identify more with some types then others. That being said I don't agree with the notion that 4,5 and 8 are the most idealized of the Enneangram and that seems a bit like selective interpretation. I could just as easily see how 3's and 7's could be idealized types for the real world in terms of productivity and action orientation and impacting the external world. I would say those types have the most accomplished atmosphere to them when you read their descriptions. 



aconite said:


> Why? Where does the feeling come from? Is it because 4s never feel authentic enough, or something else?


4 is an image type, meaning that most 4's place their worth or value on how they are perceived. I would say that 4's are just as emotionally vulnerable as 2's are when it comes to their sense of worth and need to be valued. All heart/image types fear not having worth. 

The 4's individuality is their coping mechanism for dealing with the fact that they feel they don't have worth or that they are broken or not good enough. That's where the envy comes in they have envy because they want what others have that comes so easy to them. The 4 realizes that it doesn't have the thing it wants and envy's and then it starts a process of Idealism and Disvaluation. The belief that others are better then you, the pain that comes with the fact that you are different or worse then others, the idea that you may be ugly while the rest of the world is beautiful is a hard thing to reconcile with and it's not fun. That's the yearning of having something that you can't have, the idealism of having a trait that is not within your grasp that others do (or at least the perception). 

So the 4 finds solace in the fact that they are different and turns the situation around by trying to be the best different it can be. I don't have that, I don't have all the things those other people have but that makes me different. That makes me special. That makes me an outcast. The very thing they don't have, the handicap becomes a symbol for difference and in the process the person becomes "special" and that shifts the perspective from inferior to superior. I have persisted even though I don't have those advantages those other people have. I have succeeded even though I don't have those privileges they have. I'm actually better then all of them because I am different from them. I survived even though I don't have the things they have. My journey was harder then there's because they don't have to deal with all the things I went threw. I'm actually really stronger then them _*and*_ better then them because of my issues and problems. Not having whatever they have actually works for me. 

Do you see where the acting comes in? The idea of being a fruad? the inner turmoil and roller coaster of emotions, feelings, mindsets? The sense of strength they are trying to portray to the outside world (and to themselves) is only a mask to hide the fact that they feel they are worthless inside. The superiority they feel outwardly actually comes from a deeply scarred belief that they are damaged or disenfranchised unlike others who are better off then them. That's where the fraud comes in. The I'm great and I'm different is really just a deeply closeted feeling that they_* aren't*_ great. That they aren't better and that their difference is actually a hindered quality to them because everyone else has the things they don't. It's a coping mechanism of why am I suffering, while everyone else can be happy? 

The cycle is continuous, another example that feeds itself is this below: 

Someone else is happy -> Why am_ I_ not happy? Why can't I be happy? -> That person isn't really happy, they are just oblivious and ignorant to their problems and issues -> I'm not happy because I am self aware, everyone else who is happy is just fooling themselves and is actually in denial to their problems. I'm smarter, stronger and more self-aware then they are which is why I am not happy -> I wish I was as oblivious as everyone else is, maybe if I wasn't aware I would be happier -> And so on... 

See the inferiority/superiority complexes at work. Not pretty.

I actually wouldn't say that the fear of the four is that they are just like everyone else (I think sometimes the Four in their more depressive state would actually_ like_ to be like everyone else for once, then they wouldn't feel envious and want the things they feel they don't have). I don't think the fear is that they are typical (though they do spurn that idea because they have an inferiority/superiority complex of being better/worse then others so they need it to cope). I would say the fear of the four is that they are worse or more deficient then everyone else is. It's not that the four doesn't feel they are different or authentic it's that they need to feel their differences are valid, right and accepted in order to feel appreciated and worthwhile in a world they feel has short changed them in many ways. They need their identity to matter because if it doesn't that means they don't. 

The Eight could probably relate in a way to their need to feel powerful and their fear of vulnerability. 



kaleidoscope said:


> It's *so *easy to get caught in a vicious cycle. I'm not trying to minimize other type's problems, but I do feel that because of our tendency to focus on what's missing, because of this feeling we have of just not fitting in, of being somehow different, but mostly because of this emotional masochism, we're doomed to a downward spiral. Really, once you're caught in that, it's very hard to break the cycle.


I agree. It's horrible.


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

Good points @Arrow
What you said about 8 is particularly relevant. Type 8, essentially, describes the quintessential Man (traditionally speaking) --hyper masculine, powerful, aggressive, dominant. On integration, they're kind, warm, helpful. Basically, the very picture of desirable masculinity. What's that silly cliche? All the women want him, and all the men want to be him:laughing:

This plays into the badass image that 8s have, and a lot of younger guys, especially, are attracted to this. They may well be dominant, confrontational, traditionally masculine and aggressive. But, the underlying motivations and fears are what distinguish one type from another. For example sx6 males are also described as fearless, dominant, seductive, intense, masculine and aggressive. Unsurprisingly, a lot of people (Especially men) who mistype as 8s are sx 6s, often with an 8 fix. A lot of male 3s also identify with the masculine, powerful image (esp. counter-shame 3s), so that's another common mistype. 

Though, I'd say that only type that really takes the cake for having a tortured image is Type 4. Most people don't realize that being an 8 is challenging. They just see badass. Most people don't realize how difficult it is to be a 5 because all they see is misunderstood, iconoclastic genius.


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## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

Arrow said:


> I actually wouldn't say that the fear of the four is that they are just like everyone else (I think sometimes the Four in their more depressive state would like to be like everyone else, then they wouldn't feel envious and want the things they feel they don't have). *I don't think the fear is that they are typical *(though they do spurn that idea because they have an inferiority/superiority complex of being better/worse then others so they need it to cope).* I would say the fear of the four is that they are worse or more deficient then everyone else is. It's not that the four doesn't feel they are different or authentic it's that they need to feel their differences are valid, right and accepted in order to feel accepted and worthwhile in a world they feel has short changed them. *


That was excellent. I completely agree about the "typical" part. I don't want to be different, because I already _feel _I am different. I feel like something about the way I am prevents me from fitting in with everyone else. My dilemma is wanting to both be like everyone else, to feel less flawed and defective, but at the same time I don't, because I feel like others can be so mundane, and ordinary. It's a struggle for me. My difference makes me feel both special and flawed, and I can't get rid of one without getting rid of the other.

I also completely agree with the fact that what Fours want above anything else is *acceptance*. Feeling understood, feeling like even the darkest, ugliest side of us is validated and loved. It's my biggest fantasy, truly.


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## aconite (Mar 26, 2012)

@Arrow and @kaleidoscope - thank you for explaning this to me.



Boss said:


> Though, I'd say that only type that really takes the cake for having a tortured image is Type 4. Most people don't realize that being an 8 is challenging. They just see badass. Most people don't realize how difficult it is to be a 5 because all they see is misunderstood, iconoclastic genius.


Isn't that true about most types, though? That people choose traits appealing to them, not these they actually possess? Although I agree that the stereotypical 8 image, for example, is much more desirable than the 6 image, for example. Anyway, I can't understand it. If someone pretends to be a type they aren't, they only hurt themselves.

The same thing, although to a lesser extent, happens with instincts, I guess. Maybe people think that being Sx-first means being sexy, I don't know


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

aconite said:


> @Arrow and @kaleidoscope - thank you for explaning this to me.
> 
> 
> Isn't that true about most types, though? That people choose traits appealing to them, not these they actually possess? Although I agree that the stereotypical 8 image, for example, is much more desirable than the 6 image, for example. Anyway, I can't understand it. If someone pretends to be a type they aren't, they only hurt themselves.
> ...


Yes, to a large extent, people pick types based on traits that appeal to them, not neuroses that signify how fucked up they are and what they need to overcome. 

Some types just have a much more favourable image-- are seen as possessing traits that are, generally, valued. 8,4,5 (These types have little to no negative connotations attached. People just see them as artistic, powerful, iconoclastic and so on.) and to a lesser extent 3 (though, they are also seen as superficial cheerleaders, compliment mongering jerks who need their ego stroked with syrupy praise every millisecond) and 7 (unfortunately, 7s are seen as some kind of mindless party animals) are the desirable types, in that order. 


p.s. I, initially, typed as sx first because I thought I was too sexy to be sx second/last. :laughing: Damn, I have come a long way lol.


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## aconite (Mar 26, 2012)

Boss said:


> unfortunately, 7s are seen as some kind of mindless party animals


Yeah. That's me, the mindless party animal XD but I have an attitude like "people think my type is not cool? I'll make it the most desirable type EVER" 


Boss said:


> p.s. I, initially, typed as sx first because I thought I was too sexy to be sx second/last. :laughing: Damn, I have come a long way lol.


And I thought that I couldn't be Sx-first because I'm single and not looking frantically for a mate


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Boss said:


> Yes, to a large extent, people pick types based on traits that appeal to them, not neuroses that signify how fucked up they are and what they need to overcome.
> 
> Some types just have a much more favourable image-- are seen as possessing traits that are, generally, valued. 8,4,5 (These types have little to no negative connotations attached. People just see them as artistic, powerful, iconoclastic and so on.) and to a lesser extent 3 (though, they are also seen as superficial cheerleaders, compliment mongering jerks who need their ego stroked with syrupy praise every millisecond) and 7 (unfortunately, 7s are seen as some kind of mindless party animals) are the desirable types, in that order.
> p.s. I, initially, typed as sx first because I thought I was too sexy to be sx second/last. :laughing: Damn, I have come a long way lol.


people tend to make all 7s sound like So first hyperactive, histrionic extroverts who always want to be with people and have the emotional depth of chimpanzee, especially 7w6. "The Entertainer?" good fucking grief. I could care less about "entertaining" people. the true essence of 7 is someone who is dissatisfied with and trying to escape their reality. they are seen externally as enthusiastic and bubbly because they live in their heads where it is like a tropical paradise and will do just about anything to come down from the clouds and face the inconvenient, painful, unsexy mess that is reality. at the higher levels, they begin to truly face up to the problems in their life and learn to work within reality to create what they want rather than trying to escape through addictions, procrastination, rationalization, denial and sheer delusion. in order to accomplish this kind of, what I like to call, durable fulfillment, your average 7 needs a good, hard bitch slap from reality


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## Enfpleasantly (Mar 5, 2012)

Ace Face said:


> I thought I was an 8 for a while simply because I was aggressive and because I did desire a certain degree of control (though my conscience hated to admit it.) I later realized that types 1, 3, and 6 could also be extremely aggressive, and that my desire for control stemmed from my desire for order and perfection. Needless to say, I did settle correctly on a 1w2 fix.
> 
> *Admitting my faults was probably the most difficult part of figuring out my enneagram. Remember, my heavy 1 fix desires perfection and control over imperfect tendencies, so admitting to things that were less than perfect in my own eyes was a fairly difficult task * I thought I was a 7w8 for a while. While 7w8 is undoubtedly my head fix, I have to admit that I much preferred settling on a 7w8 core than admitting the truth. The truth is that I am core 3w2. With all the negative stereotypes that go with being a core 3, I was more than hesitant to be completely honest with myself and others. Admitting to it was actually a very freeing experience. I am now correctly typed as a 3w2, 7w8, 1w2  No 4s, 5s, or 8s really spoken here


I can relate to this completely.
---------------------------------------------------------

I would think most people will mistype at least a little, initially (even if just to themselves for a brief moment). When a person is unconscious of themself and living with their ideal self in mind, they might identify as that ideal type until they realize that their ideal self is not the same as their actual self. Once this is realized, the blind gap between the two becomes much smaller and growth/personal improvement can occur...possibly even leading to one becoming more genuinely like their ideal self.


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## sodden (Jul 20, 2009)

Enfpleasantly said:


> I can relate to this completely.
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> 
> I would think most people will mistype at least a little, initially (even if just to themselves for a brief moment). When a person is unconscious of themself and living with their ideal self in mind, they might identify as that ideal type until they realize that their ideal self is not the same as their actual self. Once this is realized, the blind gap between the two becomes much smaller and growth/personal improvement can occur...possibly even leading to one becoming more genuinely like their ideal self.


It's a tough thing to figure out, for sure. I was certain I was on the line between 4 and 5, I'll be honest, I kind of looked down on 4w3 because I saw them as over adaptable/less likely to stay true to themselves/ too needy of praise in comparison to 4w5. Thing was, it's because I was loathing that quality in myself. Now that I realize that, it's kind of freeing in a way- same with the head and gut types- I couldn't have 7, they're so flakey and inconstant- I couldn't have one, they're so rigid and critical. Anyway, now that I see myself for who I really am, I feel like the enneagram can actually serve it's purpose of transformation and growth, not just stroke my ego.

Oh, and for what it's worth, I wanted to be sp/sx because they seem to be more productive creatively and stable. I'm not exactly fond of my need for intensity and obsessive nature, not to mention seeking solutions in my romantic relationships vs through myself.


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## The Scorched Earth (May 17, 2010)

kaleidoscope said:


> Woohoo, finally!! I don't think people grasp that Fours are a painfully uncomfortable and uncomfortably painful type. It's *so *easy to get caught in a vicious cycle. I'm not trying to minimize other type's problems, but I do feel that because of our tendency to focus on what's missing, because of this feeling we have of just not fitting in, of being somehow different, but mostly because of this emotional masochism, we're doomed to a downward spiral. Really, once you're caught in that, it's very hard to break the cycle.
> 
> I can just mope around for days over something bad that happened simply because I relish the feeling of melancholy. Everything I experience, I run in my head over and over to sort of get as much emotional experience out of it, and if I don't, I fantasize and create unlikely scenarios that make me more and more detached from reality. I even fantasize about fucking break ups, fights, people I care about leaving me, just because of how it makes me feel.
> 
> ...


Yes..........


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## NingenExp (Apr 4, 2011)

Boss said:


> So, I actually think these types are needlessly idealized. These types don't have it easy, at all... From where I am standing, 4, 5 and 8 are least appealing seem *most* conflicted or even inwardly tortured, in some ways.


Even if it's not rationally desirable, I found that tortured and conflicted nature so appealing. I idealized 4 and 5 because of it.



Boss said:


> ...We're all trapped in our ego's illusions, and it's a difficult journey for all...


That's correct. It's really tough. I have been looking restlessly for my enneatype, because I know it will "fill" the emptiness produced by the lack of sense of inner guidance I think I feel (I think I am a 6 <--- This is a proof of what I feel constantly: struggling between letting things unconcluded and wanting to understand them perfectly). I know it's true because when I conclude one type or another, an archetype or some "stable image", I end up "showing it off proudly". Concluding it makes me feel that I have found finally an accurate blueprint of my essence or identity and suddenly it all makes sense and it feels great (I feel totally unrestrained and carefree, I feel I can focus all of my energy to make myself productive in other aspects of my life). I look for understanding and understanding adequately requires "attacking invisible areas" to narrow this overwhelming wholeness down. The problem with me is that those areas are too invisible that I end up "losing my track" and there's my worst: I feel everything's meaningless, I feel so anxious, so stressed and so useless; I'm tortured too.


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## AbioticPrime (Sep 1, 2011)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> your average 7 needs a good, hard bitch slap from reality


:laughing: my type 7 best friend just changed his major from pre-med to communications today :laughing:


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## NingenExp (Apr 4, 2011)

Reasonable since we live in the era of victimization and the acquiring of spiritual depth and psychological and sometimes physical strength through it. The image of someone who has endured the most unbearable torment and has reached some superior level is something I really feel attracted to and I linked it with 4 (making up worth through defectiveness mixed with the latent fear of being the most defective; the uncomfortable battle truth vs worth), but the fix is not strong enough to be my core, because I'm sure I have never felt it coming from some kind of inborn wound of feeling worse than others just like I think 4s feel; it's coming from my mind. Finding my core was not something I really could do directly, I needed to dig deeper and deeper... And I was absurdly digging deep, because it was in front of my eyes; I analyse almost everything. Now it does not sound strange that I usually feel so vulnerable, that I just feel the need to stand up for my own, because that's my final desire. I want and I need to trust in me, just in me. I crave a lot of independence, even if I am independent enough. I'm posting all of this because I know I denied being a six because I felt it pretty plain and simple. Oh no! There's only complexity in the human being. I know it now. Do not let 'The Great' and 'The Tortured' vibes fool you to understand you better. I could be ubberly projecting me, but seriously DON'T!


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## The Scorched Earth (May 17, 2010)

Yeah, I think American society seems oriented toward 3 and 6, and is not very welcoming to the 4, unless of course it's in some artistic venture.


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## hairyhunk (Jan 16, 2012)

aconite said:


> Somehow I got the impression that 4, 5 and 8 are the most desired types and most people would like to be one of these or at least identify with one (or more). Why, I have no idea
> 
> So, my question is: Fours, Fives and Eight, had you mistyped before you discovered your type? Why did it happen? How do you feel about your type now?


i'm 5w4, and my tritype is 548. i really don't think i'm mistyped. i had no idea people felt that way about 5, 4 and 8. really?! now i'm nervous. XD


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## The Scorched Earth (May 17, 2010)

Ice Ghost said:


> Yeah, I think American society seems oriented toward 3 and 6, and is not very welcoming to the 4, unless of course it's in some artistic venture.


I'm surprised that people are thanking this, because I was half-asleep when I posted this. What I wanted to say was that perhaps one reason why people mistype as a 4 over the Internet is because it is a partial rebellion to their real-life circumstances. If they live or work in an environment that only values them for what they can do and not for their feelings or creativity (and that is pervasive in America), then it is almost inevitable that they will see themselves in the 4. Never mind that the reality of the 4 is far more complex than artistic interest or feeling invalidated.


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## The Scorched Earth (May 17, 2010)

I mean, look at the emo or hipster subcultures. Very much 4-oriented, but they are frequently satirized and vilified in the public square. So paradoxically, they'll take to the Internet because it's safer and easier to find other such people.


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## Master Mind (Aug 15, 2011)

I never mistyped. I know myself too well to mistype myself, as I'm extremely introspective.


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## AngelOnHerFlight (Feb 26, 2012)

Ice Ghost said:


> I mean, look at the emo or hipster subcultures. Very much 4-oriented, but they are frequently satirized and vilified in the public square. So paradoxically, they'll take to the Internet because it's safer and easier to find other such people.


This is why I dislike being a Four. But yeah, I'm a Four all the way.


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## BroNerd (Nov 27, 2010)

It comes from the desire of being unique. 4's, 5's, and 8's are the least common Enneagram types. 
"I am so different from the rest of the sheeple."

Also stereotypes stereotypes stereotypes....
4's are unique artists.
5's are the super smart types.
8's are powerful badasses.

1's are whiny perfectionists.
2's are smothering mommies.
3's are talentless workaholics.
6's are fraidy cats.
7's are obnoxious hooligans.
9's are couch potatoes.

My tritype

Fraidy cat with obnoxious hooligan wing/Talentless workaholic with smothering mommy wing/Couch potato with powerful badass wing


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## Kito (Jan 6, 2012)

I always found it kind of ironic how Four is the most common type on this forum, yet they strive to be unique. Kinda counter-productive isn't it? :laughing:

I also think it's just people of those types gravitating towards the internet (or at least 4 and 5, not sure about 8). I've heard that 4w5 and 5w4 in a tritype is extremely strange and uncommon, though. Could anyone explain exactly why?


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## nakkinaama (Jun 20, 2012)

Kito said:


> I always found it kind of ironic how Four is the most common type on this forum, yet they strive to be unique. Kinda counter-productive isn't it? :laughing:
> 
> *I also think it's just people of those types gravitating towards the internet (or at least 4 and 5, not sure about 8). I've heard that 4w5 and 5w4 in a tritype is extremely strange and uncommon, though. Could anyone explain exactly why?*


*
*
Where did you hear that?


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## Kito (Jan 6, 2012)

perkele said:


> Where did you hear that?


http://personalitycafe.com/enneagra...-enneagram-typing-tri-theory-stereotypes.html Very bottom of the OP.


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## Paradigm (Feb 16, 2010)

Kito said:


> I've heard that 4w5 and 5w4 in a tritype is extremely strange and uncommon, though. Could anyone explain exactly why?


IMO, it's not so much "strange" as it is just... usually biased. I've seen some people basically going, "I'm AwB so I must be BwA" without any actual thought placed into their true tritype. (It applies to 1w2/2w1 and 7w8/8w7, too.) Lots of times, the only reason they relate to the BwA type is because it's natural to; that is, one usually has a few traits of their wing anyway, and the fact that it's the core type means it's going to bias judgement. Much like how triple-triaders are relatively unusual and usually type as such because of the core type or being double-triaders.

And--I can't remember if I posted this before or not--people test as 4w5-5w4-9w1 (seemingly) _all the time_ simply because they think they're zomg introverted. Which they're usually not and the test is picking up on the core withdrawn-ness or, sometimes, the psychological effects of various conditions (being shunned, being depressed, etc.).

Disclaimer that yeah the stuff I claim is "rare" happens, etc...


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## Persephone (Nov 14, 2009)

aconite said:


> Somehow I got the impression that 4, 5 and 8 are the most desired types and most people would like to be one of these or at least identify with one (or more). Why, I have no idea
> 
> So, my question is: Fours, Fives and Eight, had you mistyped before you discovered your type? Why did it happen? How do you feel about your type now?


I'm without a doubt a Five. I wanted to be Eight at one point, but that was before I discovered that eight was my direction of _integration_. When I'm at my healthiest I looked like an eight, so it's not surprising in the least I want to be at my best, having overcome my sense of helplessness to self actualization.


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## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

I mistyped as a 4 initially because I didn't know it was considered cool, and was trying to just choose whichever type was supposed to highly correlate to my MBTI.

In effect, my motivation to avoid being true to my actual type (and make adjustments) proved that I'm not a 4!

xD So, idk about it seeming like it's a "cool" type. I've always been a bit collectivist, so the idea of thinking Fours are cool because they're so individualistic never occurred to me.

I practiced Zen, which is very anti-intellect, so Fives actually seemed neurotic and pointless to me.

And I've had a socialist lean for a long time, so Eights typically capitalist-biased descriptions made me cringe a little.

　
Come to find out, all three are in my tritype. 0_o

EDIT: To address the thread OP topic, I was at a very low level of health for a protracted period of time, and referencing back to how I disintegrated into a Five... like practically an Unhealthy Five nihilistic, self-abandoning stereotype... in addition to my goal of "powering myself up so I can get to a point where I can eventually be of service to others simply by virtue of serving myself" has always been a little "integrates to 2".


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## sometimes (Dec 26, 2013)

I don't see 4 or 8 as being cool types. The thought of being or meeting an 8 just scares me to be honest. I don't think I really understand what it is to be an 8 and I don't see why being one would be desirable from what I've read to be honest. I would like to be a 5 though. I guess I see 5 as a 'cool' type if there is such a thing... I also wouldn't mind being a 3 or a 1...

I think I might be a 4w5 now. The thought of being a 4 still makes me feel uncomfortable and I don't see it as being cool at all. I don't get the wanting the to be different aspect. I care about image...and I just want to be the best I can be but don't want to be different for the sake of it at all. In fact I'm kind of the opposite of that and it annoys me when people are like that... I ideally just want to fit in and I only ever want to be different from people and qualities which/who I really dislike. 

I thought I could be a 9w1 for a bit. And also considered 5w6 and also 1w9 (although that one made no sense as I'm clearly a withdrawn type). I think I felt more comfortable with the idea of being a 9 because it felt like a nicer explanation for when I disintegrate to 2 (if that makes sense?). That was a lot easier for me to deal with and come to terms with than being a 4 and often disintegrating to 2 which often leads to extreme regret and self sabotaging behaviours that I have to deal with...

I am still new to enneagram and don't really get it but it is fun anyway. I now think I am a 4w5 9w1 5w6.


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## Demoiselle Dys (Oct 29, 2014)

I've never been mistyped on enneagram. I've always came out as a core 5w4, tritype 5w4 4w5 8w7. I relate immensely to the descriptions of this type. Though, I don't know if I would call it "cool". I know what I like and what I don't like about my type, what is not different from any other, so I cannot see why someone would think this types have something that make them look more "desirable" than any other. Every type has it's pros and cons. I think there isn't really a "better one".


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## FakeLefty (Aug 19, 2013)

Being a 5 isn't quite as cool as people think it is. My social skills are shit unless enhanced by alcohol.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

aconite said:


> Somehow I got the impression that 4, 5 and 8 are the most desired types and most people would like to be one of these or at least identify with one (or more). Why, I have no idea
> 
> So, my question is: Fours, Fives and Eight, had you mistyped before you discovered your type? Why did it happen? How do you feel about your type now?


Technically, I'm all three, and I am not really all that cool. I'm kind of dark, socially awkward, witty, charming, and hardly ever at a loss for words. I guess I'm cool after all!


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## 6007 (Feb 12, 2010)

I was a member of a different enneatype forum before and enneagram 5 was despised there. 


I used to mistype as a seven. I barely knew anything and on a surface seven seemed a good fit because I love parties, I am larger than life, I am fun, I can be energetic and chatty. But it is in bursts and only with people I seriously connect to or in nature. 

upon closer inspection seven didn't fit at all. 

fives are desired in person because they are elusive and aloof and no matter how many people try to say they like lively simple folk they don't. Five is inscrutable and keeps it interesting. The connection to eight gives a solidity and a visceral energy that can be highly intoxicating, especially if a sexual subtype. 5w4 in particular holds a fascination for a lot of people, occasionally against their own will. I've been attracted to a 5w4 man and it was like he weaves a spell around himself. I still fancy him years and years later.


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

tanstaafl28 said:


> Technically, I'm all three, and I am not really all that cool. I'm kind of dark, socially awkward, witty, charming, and hardly ever at a loss for words. I guess I'm cool after all!


"Technically"?

Heh... the way I see it, "technically", you're really only your core.


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## Mizmar (Aug 12, 2009)

tanstaafl28 said:


> Technically, I'm all three, and I am not really all that cool. I'm kind of dark, socially awkward, witty, charming, and hardly ever at a loss for words. I guess I'm cool after all!


Well, if my Nine fix does in fact have an eight-wing I guess I'm _almost_ all three in one. I do seem to be perceived as more or less "cool" these days, though in my school years I was generally perceived as a "doofus", to the extent that I was noticed at all.

Edit: In contrast to you, I am at a loss or words most of the time.


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## 6007 (Feb 12, 2010)

I don't necessarily consider 4,5, or 8 "cool" even tho all three are in my stacking. 
I find 4 to be overwrought and whiny at times, five to be disengaged and minimizing at times and 8... I don't know enough 8 people to have an opinion. They seem rather rare actually. 
The three is the coolest type in my experience, flashy, says the right things, shiny, attractive. Six is cool in the sense they are really complex. 9 is calm as fuck and chilled out. So 3 6 9 seems the coolest to me, but coolness doesn't hold my attention much. 
I befriend 4s the most. I find them the most engaging and exciting.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

Flatlander said:


> "Technically"?
> 
> Heh... the way I see it, "technically", you're really only your core.


My core doesn't quite describe my being an extroverted 5w6.


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## 6007 (Feb 12, 2010)

tanstaafl28 said:


> My core doesn't quite describe my being an extroverted 5w6.


Why not. It just describes your mental traps and hangups. 
Your wing is also a personable type, less self involved than the four wing would be.


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

tanstaafl28 said:


> My core doesn't quite describe my being an extroverted 5w6.


Description does not a core make. Description is what grows from the core based on the periphery.

Your cognition really isn't your core, either, though it may be easy enough to confuse if you're a mind type.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

ripley said:


> Why not. It just describes your mental traps and hangups.
> Your wing is also a personable type, less self involved than the four wing would be.


I am a social dom.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

Flatlander said:


> Description does not a core make. Description is what grows from the core based on the periphery.



Alas, I am more than my core.


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

tanstaafl28 said:


> Alas, I am more than my core.


Do you not recognize what is central to you as being distinct from the rest? Prioritized over it?


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## 6007 (Feb 12, 2010)

tanstaafl28 said:


> Alas, I am more than my core.


Well, core integrates and disintegrates. 
Wing adds shading. 
i do not disagree that you are more, but even the core type is quite varied as it stands.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

Flatlander said:


> Do you not recognize what is central to you as being distinct from the rest? Prioritized over it?


I don't know what to say at this point. I think I painted myself into a corner.


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## VinnieBob (Mar 24, 2014)

tanstaafl28 said:


> I am a social dom.


don't you mean a social whore:laughing:
i be a anti social dom


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

tanstaafl28 said:


> I don't know what to say at this point. I think I painted myself into a corner.


I suppose we all are what we are. I expect I have an introvert's way of looking at it, while you as an extravert have the self-orientation toward the object and natively go first by what is visible to everyone. The description, the characteristics - not so much the core. Even though I understand it intellectually, the differing priority is weird to me.


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