# 500 Days of Summer



## Sweetish (Dec 17, 2009)

Sooo... I just finally saw it.



*[extreme amount of spoilers here in what I'm about to type]*



I find this interesting that no one has noticed: Karaoke night, Tom's friend blurts out to Summer drunkenly that Tom likes Summer. She very shortly thereafter asks Tom, "Is it true? ... Do you like me? ... Just as a friend?" Tom at this point goes, Oh, crap- the "F" word! I want more, but I can't tell her that because she's out of my league, she is the one with power in the relationship, she wants what she wants and I can't change her mind, she said clearly tonight that she doesn't believe in "love" -much to my disappointment- and said she just wants to have fun... *gulp*

Tom f*cked up in not telling her right off the bat, No, I don't want casual, I want to share a deeper emotional attachment. I don't want to like you as a friend, I want to love you as someone who loves me. I want a serious relationship with you and I can see myself loving you for my entire life.

Tom said none of the above, even though he was thinking it. He was that desperate to have this girl's affection that he LIED.

I know this behavior, as my ENFP did it to me within a week of meeting me. He thought to have any chance at any relationship with me at all he had to lie, thinking that he had to fit some sort of standard of acceptability for me to want to be with him. I sympathize with the feelings of men who do this, but I don't sympathize with their reasons.

...back to the movie:

After quick consideration, Tom acquiesces, Yes, he can like her just as friends (*cough* BULLSHIT!). It should come as no surprise that, knowing Summer, the next day when she kisses him in the copy room and later they have sex she is brazen about it because if Tom was being direct with her, if Tom was answering her honestly, there should be no risk in her pursuing a casual relationship with him. Summer does not enter into the intimate domain of this relationship with intent to hurt Tom, on the contrary she felt that they both had agreed upon that status of their relationship.

Friends don't have sex, huh?

In Summer's world, they do. In Tom's world, any two people who have sex aren't just friends they are much more. This is the incongruency in their understanding of the definition of the relationship.

Here is the rub. Summer does not love Tom. However, Summer cares about Tom (yes, she does). When Tom is interested in something, Summer wants to know more about it and share it with him, like his love for architecture and their visit to the museum followed by watching that silly "VAGIANT" movie in the theater together- this shows she cares. After crying from watching "The Graduate" with Tom, which was his suggestion because that film has a special meaning for him (remember when he suggests the option of doing something else instead she quickly responds with "No, I really wanna see it, let's go"), in the record store she doesn't feel it's right to hold his hand anymore. Even so, after they've stepped outside when she says she just wants to go home there is a moment where she realizes that despite her hurting Tom she really does care for him and must communicate this somehow, so she does kiss him on the cheek.

He cares for her in a way that probably no one else has, before. She knows this. When she listed her previous relationships "the ones that lasted" you can be sure that most of them were superficial, casual, and likely none of them had lasted as long as her relationship with Tom. Why? Tom offered her something that none of the others ever had, before: emotional intimacy as well as physical and sexual intimacy. She felt she could trust him.

Summer is happy to spend her time with Tom. Summer enjoys Tom's company and she obviously enjoys his love for her, despite the fact that she does not "love" him. She trusts him enough to show him sides of her that she hasn't shown others. It might be easy for viewers to dismiss that Summer matures because they do not see her show remorse and judge her behavior overall to be insensitive. If a person watches the movie from a completely unbiased viewpoint it can be seen where both participants took advantage of the relationship, how each of them in a way were settling, taking what they could from it until they each decided for their selves that ultimately it wasn't what they wanted. As much as Tom did give and had given Summer, she needed something more.

I found it very interesting that each of them have a moment in the movie where one asks the other, "What are we doing?" to which the other replies that they are "happy" the way things are. The difference being that Tom would continue to settle for what he could get, while Summer on the other hand now knew she had been settling and that Tom would not, could not, make her happy any more.

"People should be able to say how they feel. How they _really_ feel."

You'll notice many scenes where it's not just what the characters say but what they _don't say_ that indicates something is wrong. For example, Summer is not clear with Tom about the reason(s) why she was crying from watching The Graduate. Her emotions were still very raw, and as much as she trusts Tom perhaps she has realized with true profundity how telling him the truth she now knows will just hurt him more than she already has. She can't even adequately explain to Tom why they should break up, instead using an analogy from a movie to indicate that if they stay together she will essentially ruin him (stab him until he's emotionally dead). Tom is too heart-broken to see this breakup as the best thing for both of them. He still would have taken it hard if she had just been very clear with him, "I don't love you, Tom." but likely have taken it much worse.

Notice that not ever in the film do either of them say to the other, "I love you." or "I don't love you" however several times Summer tells Tom, "I like you." one scene in particular after they fight about Tom punching the other guy in the bar, she says it right after apologizing to him. I cringed when she said it. This woman can't even tell him that she cares enough about him to say anything more than her repeated "I like you"s but, hey, at least she didn't lie to him by saying "I love you" I'll give her that much credit.

I do hate how she says, "...I can't give you up. Nobody can." because it was obvious that at some point she would give him up, even if reluctantly, at some point she would know better and do them both the favor of not running the relationship further into the ground than it already was.

Tom could never just be her friend, which is what she really wanted... even when they had broken up, many months later he could not let go of his fantasy idea that she would come back to him because of their warm exchanges at their mutual friend's wedding. She never felt that any man possessed her, she felt there should be no improper attachment because she and Tom were broken up. She didn't want to hurt him, she just wanted him to be her friend, and he couldn't ever just be her friend, it was too hard on him. His demonstrated bitterness towards his chosen career at the party on the roof was met immediately with a "that's a shame" facial response from Summer. This man couldn't brush himself off, not even many months after. He had not even been inspired by Summer to follow his dreams, though she distinctly knew that he could and should because it's obvious that it would bring him happiness. We should be happy in our lives because of the things we do, not necessarily solely based upon who we are with.

Tom was not being realistic and Summer was not being realistic, as still they both thought they could get what they want from the other (Tom's friendship with her, Summer's "love" for him). When she invited him to the party on the roof she had no idea that she would be engaged when the party took place. She later said, "I know" when Tom said that she should have told him about her relationship with someone else, even though they weren't engaged at the time. All she ever wanted to be with Tom was happy, yet she couldn't even tell him about another guy because that meant he would be unhappy... ruin their happy moments together. She wanted a friend after all that time, not a selfishly despondent ex-lover.


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## Sweetish (Dec 17, 2009)

What I find particularly amusing (coincidental?) is that the novel The Graduate was written by Charles Webb, later made into a movie which is referenced in and footage of it shown in (500) Days of Summer which was directed by Marc Webb.

Charles Webb ran a nudist camp at some point in his life, and Marc Webb had his own company called "Naked".

I can't find any information that links these 2 people as relatives, though. So, these must just be funny coincidences.

It's also amusing to note how this film is set in L.A. as the film The Graduate was set in Pasadena, not far from L.A.


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## firedell (Aug 5, 2009)

I disliked Zooey Deschanel's character, she so seemed so detached from loving.


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## cardinalfire (Dec 10, 2009)

wanderingscribe said:


> Personally the ending (last 30 minutes) left me having the most mixed feelings about an ending in a long time. Disregarding that this was an actual good film in modern cinema and not another "BS" I felt the movie unbiasedly for an optimal film was done shy of perfect. But emotionally and personally it actually did hurt me for Tom. Summer was not a bitch, but she was, her scapegoat was that she was honest with Tom up front and said I don't want anything serious. I still don't know... it just hurt. Honestly she was the girl that never wanted love with anyone, then she breaks it off with Tom and is engaged and then enjoy's company and conversation while dancing, then inviting him to an engament party without telling him. I don't know, it just was very "twisted-up" inside. She couldv'e been solo, she couldv'e been making out with a guy, she could've been dating, and that was all expected of Summer as a person and that would've been "ok". But she was ENGAGED AND THEN MARRIED, wow... (which is why it's the perfect optimal unbiased move for the film) But still it just threw a curve ball for my emotions, it almost felt like betrayl in an odd way. I just remember seeing the ring and dress and I'm like wait, no no. I was in honest doubt that she might actually be getting married, and since they didn't show the guys face I thought it might be Tom. I was that thrown, so when it was confirmed at the Bench, I was still blown away. However, retrospectively it makes perfect sense, but when I first saw it I was going over the events within the film and the film of course in general for hours and hours emmotionally attached as lame as it sounds. I was just really thrown, rarely does a film do that to me, and beyond emerald in the sea is it a "romantic" film that emotionally perplexes me. Which is why as stated it's been a long time since I was so mixed about the ending.
> 
> It wasn't a love story, but it hit harder than most. Emotionally.
> Cinematically it was right, it was true.
> ...


I so know what you mean about the betrayal thing, I felt that. Like she could of done better despite not having reciprocity of feelings for him. Something about her character at that point, was a let down, she never seemed to just come out right and tell him. I'm aware that in reality this wouldn't happen, so kudos for the writers for getting that across. Tom was the kind of guy who needed telling though, that damn fantasy world of his needed a great big wake up call, if anything was going to remain of this relationship.




Geodude said:


> I'm concerned about how you seem to be framing some of your conclusions though, Rouge (ie as objective truths). I am not sure why you are saying that "all" women have a built in meter about how long term a relationship will be, and "all" women don't like slackers. I think you only have to look at the literally millions of women stuck in bad relationships with men because "I know he keeps cheating/hitting me (etc) but he loves me deep down, so I have to stand by him" to see this is false. Or are their meters on the blink?
> 
> Similarly, all women hate slackers? Again, why are there so many women in relationships with guys who are content to underacheive. Deep down are they masochists?
> 
> In general, I think these sort of "truths" about gender that get bandied are generally more reflective of either (or both) A) The gender roles of the society at the time, and B) The subjective experience of the people saying them. You may experience both of these things as true for you, but I'm not quite sure how you justify trying to generalise out from your own experience to all women, in the face of contradictory evidence?


There is something in this which I will discuss in a minute.



inebriato said:


> I disliked Zooey Deschanel's character, she so seemed so detached from loving.


Yeah I got this impression firstly.

Anyway back to what Geodude was saying, I agree that the reason why Summer wasn't attracted to Tom was nothing to do with him being a 'slacker'. Ok he was sitting on his laurels, though it wasn't that which made him un-attractive, it was his lack of character.

The guy had so many holes in his boundary, it's a wonder his brains didn't fall out.

I feel that Summer had a lot of walls in hers. At times in the movie I felt that she could of been a little more 'open hearted' then just remaining cold. It was her responsibility to stop herself from going bored and cold on him, no matter if that meant leaving the relationship or whatever, because it was clear, at this point that Tom wasn't going to change.

Of course, him being the MAIN character he does go through a change, though not until the very end when he meets Autumn.

Tom also failed, as mentioned before, to be honest about how he was feeling, yet he was also lacking in shrewdness, when they're standing there after the karoake scene, and she blatantly wants a kiss or something, he lets her WALK AWAY... what a fool.... Hands up fellas, who would have seen the signals by then and actually gone in for a kiss? (*raises hand*).

Tom was also VERY VERY much reliant on Summer for his self esteem, a big BIG no no. See what I mean about holes? He did need someone like Summer though to come along, give him a kick up the butt and start to feel like he was able to get a relationship like that again, and redeem himself, which I feel is represented to the viewer through the appearance of Autumn at the end. Trust me if they make a sequel and Tom still hasn't learnt a thing, I will not be impressed. lol. REFUND!

Many times through out this movie, I was like come on Tom get it together and then other times I wanted to scold or discipline Summer, because being the more responsible and mature (at least to me) I expected better from her. 

That's all folks, anyway, here is one of my favourite scenes from the movie... The baseball bat was an excellent touch ... lol... I chuckled at that...


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## cardinalfire (Dec 10, 2009)




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## Sweetish (Dec 17, 2009)

cardinalfire said:


> That's all folks, anyway, here is one of my favourite scenes from the movie... The baseball bat was an excellent touch ... lol... I chuckled at that...


Yeah, I did too! Hehe, I watched that scene over again a few times after my first full viewing of the film, found it nice how the wardrobe was mostly blues with some green as an accentual color. Found it funny how nonchalant but of course well choreographed the tossing aside of the baseball bat was after he hit his home run.

I was able to find the film overall to be enjoyably comical, whimsical, true and just downright funny. I suppose there are some people who would see it feeling things like bitterness, anger, confusion, heart ache, but I for the most part understood for myself how even the truly shitty moments were not without their humor. Well written, as most stories based upon the writers' actual histories and human relationships typically are. I find it disheartening when people make comments like, "This movie sucks" or to the effect that watching it was a waste of their time, as it makes me wonder if that person understands its themes more than they want to admit, if potentially it reminded them of something they don't want to think about, or perhaps they just have ADD, were expecting some explosions from a rom-com-dram (romantic comedy drama) or even a stereotypical happy ending, which the trailer, to me, clearly disclaimed. Perhaps some people just aren't ready to appreciate this movie for what it is.

Cardinalfire, thanks for posting the "Bank Heist" video as well; I had read about it on the (500) Days of Summer wikipedia page where it was mentioned that the film's director, Marc Webb, who has a resume full of music video directions, did this project on the side. I had forgotten to go searching for it, though, so again, thank you!

Here's a fan-made music video I found which I like *[spoiler alert!]* The audio desyncs unfortunately, but it's still good as a summary of the movie. I actually watched this a month before seeing the film, so of course there were fewer surprises left for me as a result, having already seen how Summer and Tom's characters would eventually evolve and progress. I felt very happy that Summer realized she had been wrong...


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## Sweetish (Dec 17, 2009)

So, check out this segment I copied from a review of "The Graduate" and perhaps you will better understand Tom's "misreading" of the film as well as Summer's correct reading of the film, which can help to explain why its effect upon her caused her to cry...



> The plot of this film, built entirely upon its dysfunctional characters, is dramatically different from most of its genre. Instead of focusing on two people of different backgrounds falling in love, or on a battle of the sexes, The Graduate probes into a much deeper and darker side of human relationships. The film begins as Benjamin returns home from school and finds himself smothered with congratulations by his parents and their friends. Mrs. Robinson, who is old enough to be his mother, succeeds in seducing the confused boy and initiating a lasting affair that, although it fills time, seems to depress both of them. Under pressure from his parents and Mr. Robinson, Benjamin agrees to take out the Robinson’s daughter, Elaine, despite Mrs. Robinson’s objections. Amazed at how good an honest relationship to a beautiful girl his own age feels, Benjamin becomes infatuated with Elaine and vows to marry her. In the second half of the film, Benjamin stalks Elaine and does anything and everything to end up with her, which he eventually does.
> 
> Because of its disconcerting storyline and message, The Graduate does not generate the optimistic and light mood that would be expected of a Romantic Comedy. The film’s pessimistic mood is born from the implied hopelessness of Benjamin’s future. Although Benjamin certainly claims to be in love with Elaine, nothing legitimizes this assertion. It seems probable, then, that it is not Elaine herself, but the concept of innocence and escape that Benjamin is drawn to. When combined with this idea, the repetition of Paul Simon's “The Sound of Silence,” which appears at the beginning and end of the film, only highlights the fact that Benjamin’s isolation and despondency have not been mitigated by his success in running away with Elaine. The mood is therefore all but romantic.
> 
> While The Graduate may provide its audience with a healthy dose of comic relief and concludes with a predictable resolution to an extremely climactic scene, it does not end on an upbeat note.


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## cardinalfire (Dec 10, 2009)

SweetSurrender said:


> So, check out this segment I copied from a review of "The Graduate" and perhaps you will better understand Tom's "misreading" of the film as well as Summer's correct reading of the film, which can help to explain why its effect upon her caused her to cry...


I still don't get it, maybe once I have watched the Graduate I will watch this movie again and form my own opinion about this scene.

What do you reckon is being communicated through the use of this movie?


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## Sweetish (Dec 17, 2009)

O M G I just over analyzed the comparisons so much that my brain hurts.

I have only seen the last 10 minutes or so of The Graduate by accident, really. I know that Dustin Hoffman's character struggled to get to a chapel to break up the wedding of Elaine, pounding the glass looking over all the pews of the wedding attendants, shouting her name.

He is desperate. I don't think he actually stopped to think about why he wanted what he wanted- did he ever even stop to think about HER feelings? He seemed just to be this possessive maniac, starved to have SOMEONE who he could fantasize would make him happy. I could deduce all of this from the ending sequence on the bus, where their youthful, careless elation turns sour... to frowns... to uncertainty... to anxiety... to disappointment. You can see from her face she knows it wasn't worth it. She can see from his face that he doesn't really love her, after all, he was just scared. Scared to be alone. To feel that he needed so much from this one woman, only to be abandoned when she married another (better) man. He could not let her go, out of his own selfish need.

What did those two "lovers" REALLY WANT? Because they obviously couldn't get it from each other. It was like they hadn't really thought it through, how to have reality be your dream come true and vice versa, but no, they were young and foolish, had never stopped to wonder why they wanted what it was or who it was that they thought would fulfill them.

Watching The Graduate could certainly help make it clearer, but I think plenty can be ascertained just from saying, Tom thought that Dustin Hoffman's character, Benjamin, got what he wanted. To the contrary (and Summer saw this for what is was) Benjamin was miserable. The bride he had just run out of the chapel with, stealing her away from her groom in a fit of jealous, youthful insecurity, was also miserable. Summer knew exactly why, because she had seen the entire movie play out as a projection of her own life and of her relationship with Tom.

Summer sees this, she saw it coming in the film, her life and relationship with other people as well as Tom personified- hence why she was already crying- the futile pursuit of someone thinking that a person will fill a void when it obviously hasn't, can't and therefor won't. She has felt a deep sadness for so long, yet never wanted to face it, never acknowledged it. She thought that having the attention of some guys every now and then would stave off the void permanently that she didn't believe existed nor could ever be filled because she convinced herself it was all a load of crap, garbage, illusions. She saw how she had settled, become the very thing she would not want to be to someone else which was an illusion, rather than a real person who wanted to love someone back, not merely be loved as nothing more than an idol of some ideal of Tom's which she would never be.

Would Summer end up the bride in The Graduate who fled from her wedding to the arms of an insecure, unhappy, ambition-less, affection-starved young man who only wanted her because he loved the thought of her, but not the reality of who she was and what she truly wanted?

Tom does not love Summer so much as he loves the idea of her being "the one"- he wants her to be the one, but she doesn't love him the way that he thinks he loves her.

I'm, being redundant ^_^; I'll cut to another point I haven't made yet.

He has channeled all of his hopes and dreams upon her yet failed to notice that Summer's hopes and dreams have nothing to do with him...

What does Summer really do, but lose herself with Tom? Distract herself with Tom? What does Summer even do when she's not with Tom? We never see these things in the film... except for maybe that one night when she stares at the phone from her bed. All Tom can remember is her being with him, not the things she did for herself for her own personal happiness. We aren't even told where she goes when she quits her job at the card company. Does Tom even CARE? I think all he noticed was that she was GONE, the fact that she was not with him. When did he ever tell Summer to follow HER dreams? It's possible she could have even forgotten that she ever had any... that being distracted with Tom was simply enough for her to think she didn't need any. A distraction for her to not truly feel emotions, just feel sensations and think it would be enough. Feed off the addiction of temporary thrills until the novelty wore off.



> Although Benjamin certainly claims to be in love with Elaine, nothing legitimizes this assertion. It seems probable, then, that it is not Elaine herself, but the concept of innocence and escape that Benjamin is drawn to.


 Again it makes one wonder, why does he love HER as opposed to some other woman? Simply because she likes the same band as him (The Smiths)? Not because she likes Ringo Starr, that's for damn sure, he keeps telling her she's crazy to like his music, yet uses it to try to cheer her up (but she only remembers that it's not something she can truly enjoy with Tom because he makes fun of it... something that was once a happy tease is now a reminder of how little he truly understands about Summer). She didn't even understand completely for herself, but she was beginning to. The floodgates of emotion and revelation had been opened and she was sorting it all out.

You will notice when she talks about the man who is now her husband, it is the moment when he approaches her, interested in "The Picture of Dorian Grey" which I haven't read, but from skimming wikipedia holds actually an interesting premise which I could imagine she would be able to enjoy sharing with this man. How indulging in compulsions seems to not affect our outer self but it truly distorts our inner self horribly, disfigured completely and abhorrently beyond recognition. Our vanity causes us to forget that we are internally, forever scarred. The only people who see it happening to us are the ones who care to actually look. I can see how her sharing this helped her yet again in discovering the parts of herself which she'd repressed in seeking out superficial joys. Anyway... that book, at least, was something she could share with someone who showed a true and genuine interest but at the same time, somehow, one can only conclude it fulfilled her intellectually and emotionally in a way that sharing things with Tom hadn't. We can't know this for sure because she doesn't go in depth about it and the narrator doesn't fill in the blanks =Þ It's told from Tom's perspective, after all- was he truly able to set aside his bitterness to ask her further just why she was happy? To inquire about this better man? No... He just said he genuinely hoped that she was happy. He was beginning to grow up, but still ever so slowly.



> The film’s pessimistic mood is born from the implied hopelessness of Benjamin’s future.





> When combined with this idea, the repetition of Paul Simon's “The Sound of Silence,” which appears at the beginning and end of the film, only highlights the fact that Benjamin’s isolation and despondency have not been mitigated by his success in running away with Elaine. The mood is therefore all but romantic.


Dustin Hoffman's character (Benjamin) is essentially Tom. I can also suggest that in a way this character from The Graduate could be compared as being either Tom OR Summer depending upon how you look at it. In relation to Summer, she thought being with Tom could make her happy until, as she says, life happens. She realized that she had never really been truly happy with Tom, as both Elaine and Ben realize on the bus- they realized they are so terribly alone, that being with someone wouldn't "fix" that.

When comparing the runaway bride from The Graduate to Summer, you can see the dramatic contrast in Summer's eyes in the sequence where the veil is placed then lifted from her face before she kisses the groom... she is the happiest she had ever been in the movie, more so than any scene ever before; she is overjoyed. She is smiling with far more twinkle in her eyes, because this time it's not just for fun... it's for mutual love. She finally knows real happiness because she met the better man (for her). Summer decided she didn't want to stay with Tom because she knew she would end up bitterly estranged from him despite previously enjoying his affections. Tom did not love _her_, really, he loved the fantasy of her. 

Again, I'm, being redundant ^_^;

*yawn* I think I've rambled more than enough and thus will be content to say no more.


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