# Fi and Fe Observed



## Psychopomp (Oct 3, 2012)

FearAndTrembling said:


> INFP are obvious introverts. Obvious feelers. Obvious perceivers. INFJ are not obvious introverts, not obvious feelers, and not obvious judgers. My friend is an INFP everywhere. They are a more defined type. INFJ are more ambiguous. To some people, I am am an ESTP, to some, I am an ISTJ, and perhaps some other types, but my friend is always an INFP.
> 
> We both realize we are behind enemy lines, but I go on red alert. My shields are up. Battle stations. I am totally alert in the environment, and aware of how to thwart it. He doesn't go through that transformation.
> 
> INFP are probably actually my favorite type, because they are just about the only type where I don't have to have my shields up. They can actually stand silence, and not make it uncomfortable.


It is so interesting how often INFJs state that they are type chameleons. I think it creates this weird problem where anyone can be called an INFJ because INFJs are the type that can be any other type. 

I personally think that INFJs just THINK they can be any other type. Maybe some people are fooled by this, I don't know. I am not. Never have been. I really really really really think this is Fe/Se (which would make sense as the chameleon functions) but it is just as much in the mind of the INFJ as outside of it. They see their external parts as so fluid, so adaptable, so inconstant or whatever.. 

..but in my eyes you are anything but. I think it is because when I engage with an INFJ, I immediately pull that Ni out. They are sitting somewhere 'chameleoning' or whatever, and 2 minutes later we are having the most 'N' conversation possible. But, even if I am not engaging them, it seems really obvious. There is always this condescension in the air. This intense cerebral lucidity that pervades. You might think that all just happens in your head, but I see it clear as day. 

Just because you are able to work well and be so adaptable to so many different social settings, doesn't mean you aren't very obviously an INFJ the whole time. People who very clearly aren't INFJs are not secretly INFJs and neither are you. 

I agree, though, with all you said. Especially that INFPs are always INFPs.


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candiemerald said:


> I do think Andrew Garfield is INFP rather than ISFP, however.


If you don't mind me asking... Why?


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## FearAndTrembling (Jun 5, 2013)

arkigos said:


> It is so interesting how often INFJs state that they are type chameleons. I think it creates this weird problem where anyone can be called an INFJ because INFJs are the type that can be any other type.
> 
> I personally think that INFJs just THINK they can be any other type. Maybe some people are fooled by this, I don't know. I am not. Never have been. I really really really really think this is Fe/Se (which would make sense as the chameleon functions) but it is just as much in the mind of the INFJ as outside of it. They see their external parts as so fluid, so adaptable, so inconstant or whatever..
> 
> ...


I agree, but I came from the opposite direction. I actually didn't know who I was, and realized I was many different people, and a people pleaser. And a feeler. All of this honestly shocked me. I thought I was a thinker, and an ass. I didn't know how much feeling I used, and how much I actually accommodate others.. I told my friend I was a feeler, like him, and he was surprised. Maybe I am particularly good, I have always been extremely private. Even with close family and friends. Nobody really knows me. . A trained eye like yours may be able to detect. lol at condescension in the air. 

But this people pleasing actually serves the greater purpose of pleasing, and protecting myself. I just stay under the radar. But it takes calculation. Whereas my INFP friend doesn't play that game.


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## candiemerald (Jan 26, 2014)

arkigos said:


> If you don't mind me asking... Why?


I definitely see Fi as his dominant function in the way he reacts in interviews, and the way he talks about his feelings. The only thing that makes me doubt Fi as his dominant at all is this quote: "'All I needed was someone to say, "You're good at this" for me to believe it and chase it." However, it seems that no matter how often someone tells him he is great, he still doubts himself, so I'm not sure he really is looking for external validation the way Fe often does. It seems he simply has a lot of self-doubt and low self confidence.

These strike me as more Ne than Se: 
"That whole night was so shocking and scary. By the time I got home I started to have a panic attack... It was the result of pure adrenaline fall-off, and the realisation that although the success of the night had felt really nice, it was never ever going to satisfy me."

"In secondary school I was floating – I wasn't passionate about anything. I did a little sport, but it was pretty joyless because the competitiveness was too much to bear."

"I think too much. Being in my body is much more satisfying than being in my head."

I'm interested why you think he's ISFP, though, because I still have trouble differentiating the two.

Also, could you give me examples why you think Carey Mulligan is ISFJ rather than INFJ? I was happy thinking I'd actually finally found an actor I believed truly was INFJ, but watching interviews with her has made me begin to think that she's actually displaying more Si than Ni. I'm still on the fence.


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## surgery (Apr 16, 2010)

I'm sure people have seen these before, but I doesn't really hurt to post them again.FiNe Visually Reading Type
NiFe Visually Reading Type



candiemerald said:


> Also, could you give me examples why you think Carey Mulligan is ISFJ rather than INFJ? I was happy thinking I'd actually finally found an actor I believed truly was INFJ, but watching interviews with her has made me begin to think that she's actually displaying more Si than Ni. I'm still on the fence.


The same site types the following actors thusly:

SiFe
Adam Sandler
Tom Hiddleston
James Franco
Brad Pitt
Alexandre Astair

NiFe
Leonard Nimoy
Olivia Williams
Morgan Freeman
Matt Damon
Leonardo DiCaprio

Source/Master list: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Anak4uuXKt-pdDNLZ19wdUlhaVNCRUROTlYtQkhXZ1E#gid=0


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## candiemerald (Jan 26, 2014)

surgery said:


> I'm sure people have seen these before, but I doesn't really hurt to post them again.FiNe Visually Reading Type
> NiFe Visually Reading Type
> 
> 
> ...


Hmm, interesting videos. I don't really agree with a lot of their typing, but they're compelling nonetheless.


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## Psychopomp (Oct 3, 2012)

candiemerald said:


> I definitely see Fi as his dominant function in the way he reacts in interviews, and the way he talks about his feelings. The only thing that makes me doubt Fi as his dominant at all is this quote: "'All I needed was someone to say, "You're good at this" for me to believe it and chase it." However, it seems that no matter how often someone tells him he is great, he still doubts himself, so I'm not sure he really is looking for external validation the way Fe often does. It seems he simply has a lot of self-doubt and low self confidence.


Actually, Fi/Te does seek validation... though of a more frank and critical variety... reflecting Te rather than Fe. If an Fi-dom, one would assume that Andrew would need to feel that the statement was genuine... not forced or 'fluff'. If so, his Te would take this as a confirmation to settle their neuroses. I've certainly experienced this with Fi types... and it seems that while they rely on it at times, they may not seek it out. Also, the rejection of adulation speaks to the same thing. It would have to be perceived as frank and genuine. 



candiemerald said:


> These strike me as more Ne than Se:
> "That whole night was so shocking and scary. By the time I got home I started to have a panic attack... It was the result of pure adrenaline fall-off, and the realisation that although the success of the night had felt really nice, it was never ever going to satisfy me."


This is fascinating. First, it is important to note that Ne is an 'N' function and thus deals in metaphor/essence/concepts/archetypes and all that. This is a recounting of a physical reaction to a entirely real scenario, without any interpretation........... so it rather begs the question of why you saw it as Ne. It specifically isn't. Read it again... it is quite ostentatiously Se. 



candiemerald said:


> "In secondary school I was floating – I wasn't passionate about anything. I did a little sport, but it was pretty joyless because the competitiveness was too much to bear."


Fi and inferior Te. Classic ISFP sentiment. Ne (or Ni) is nowhere to be found in this statement. Flatline. 



candiemerald said:


> "I think too much. Being in my body is much more satisfying than being in my head."


Indicates a dominate Ji over an aux Se. Quite straightforwardly, actually. Again, not so much as a hint of Ne or Ni. 



candiemerald said:


> I'm interested why you think he's ISFP, though, because I still have trouble differentiating the two.


I am guessing because you are attempting to differentiate SFP and SFPs to see who the NFP is and it isn't going to work. NFPs are very rare and I think it is one of those things that once you see it, you go 'ahhhh, riiight.. I get it now.' I prompted an INFP friend to offer an opinion on a video I saw on the internet... and posted it. Look at that language use. No talking about STUFF, because that isn't the arena of Ne. Ne talks about ideas (aka, concepts) and often do so in metaphorical and imaginative ways. Sure, they can hold a relatively normal conversation... but they are very oriented toward talking on an 'N' level. It is their primary extraverted function. 

That stuff from Garfield isn't even in the same universe as how INFP thinks or talks. That long video I posted should help as well in making this more clear. 



candiemerald said:


> Also, could you give me examples why you think Carey Mulligan is ISFJ rather than INFJ? I was happy thinking I'd actually finally found an actor I believed truly was INFJ, but watching interviews with her has made me begin to think that she's actually displaying more Si than Ni. I'm still on the fence.


Same reason, really. She doesn't show any freaking intuition ever. That's red flag #1. I think it is a much more appropriate question to ask why in the -world- people are defaulting her to INFJ. Must be the accent.


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## candiemerald (Jan 26, 2014)

@arkigos

Fascinating.

I know, I actually realized what an error I'd made after posting those quotes: the first is an Se introvert reflecting on a physical reaction. The second is more than a little ISFP. The third is a Fi dominant stating his preference for the immediate over the imaginative - seriously, that is not Fi/Ne in the farthest reaches of the imagination.

I see your point. Actually, I disagree with a lot of INFP typing, but I finally gave way on Andrew, because I could at least see Fi. I personally think INFP is a lot more rare than most people make out - I see way too many ISFPs being labelled INFP or INFJ - because, of course, any artistic type that challenges societal trends must be an intuitive . Could you give me some further examples of INFPs?

Yes, I had a real problem typing her as INFJ, too, because to me she seemed completely Si when I first saw her - ISFJ or ESFJ. But I gave in on that one, too. I should stop doing that and trust my instincts more, probably. Again, could you give me some INFJ examples?


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## ferroequinologist (Jul 27, 2012)

FearAndTrembling said:


> So, he gets friendly with people, and they take advantage of him. He doesn't realize that a lot of business conversation is just one person trying to get something from another. He just thinks it is conversation. He doesn't grasp the greater environment. He is genuinely friendly, and innocent. But he needs to be protected from the environment even more than I do, but he isn't aware or capable of constructing that outer barrier that I do.


This may be true, and I see a lot of myself in this, but on the other hand, I frequently do something that he may also do. I've kind of known for a long time that I do this, but I never really seriously thought about this before, but a few times the past few months, it's passed through my mind in a more than fleeting way, and talking with my daughter yesterday about an ISFP friend of hers has kind of pushed it to the front of my thoughts. 

I don't know if other Fi types do this, or if it is a counter-phobic way I have of dealing with my fears or what, but sometimes I open myself up in ways to others that makes me seem vulnerable. It is like I show them something private about myself, and make myself vulnerable on that point. I open up, so they feel comfortable with me, and open up further themselves. I can't evoke empathy normally, so I think this is how I create empathy. I can tell you where or how it started. I have facial scars that (used to be, at least) quite visible. When I was a kid, people always asked about them, and everybody pointed them out, and even people I didn't know knew me (the kid with the scars). Essentially, I could never be anonymous--just another kid. Of course, I hated it, and was very non-social, but as I grew older, I couldn't hide forever, so as I came out, so to speak, and as I got older, I noticed that frequently, people would be reluctant to mention my scars, and would act all uncomfortable if a kid (usually their own kid) would ask about them. I learned fairly quickly to be the one to mention them if I could sense that there was an awkwardness. So, I would bring them up to simply break the ice. I guess I learned that making myself vulnerable on this point made it easier for me to open up to others, and others to me. I've kind of refined this through the years. I allow myself to be vulnerable as a way of establishing empathy or rapport with people. Of course, I don't do it everywhere... It is also mostly unconscious--I just do it, and don't really think about it. In fact, many years ago, if you had asked me, I would have told you I was just being open and honest, but the real truth was that by doing this, I was able to keep my deeper self hidden. Think of Shrek--he has layers. I could open up layers of myself, and people would think they had gained the inner circle really quickly, but really, they were still on the outer circle. Again, this is mostly done unconsciously. Sometimes I would have a sense of what I was doing, but I don't do it as a conscious strategy. It just happens. 

So, it would be interesting if your friend does this... or if other Fi-doms do this, or if this is just something unique that I learned by accident.


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## ferroequinologist (Jul 27, 2012)

arkigos said:


> Actually, Fi/Te does seek validation... though of a more frank and critical variety... reflecting Te rather than Fe. If an Fi-dom, one would assume that Andrew would need to feel that the statement was genuine... not forced or 'fluff'. If so, his Te would take this as a confirmation to settle their neuroses. I've certainly experienced this with Fi types... and it seems that while they rely on it at times, they may not seek it out. Also, the rejection of adulation speaks to the same thing. It would have to be perceived as frank and genuine.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You know, you can't always go by the language somebody uses. They are actors, talking about a film, and recollecting. And they are in an interview, with an interviewer asking them questions--they are trained and capable. I can say that I do not get an ISFP vibe from this guy. He is too detached from the world around him (they mention Fi for the crossed legs thing, but it also shows a bit of a lack of Se as well--it took him several minutes to notice it.) I couldn't say for sure, but what I did notice was a separation from reality that I see in my Ne-aux wife (INTP). I can't put it into words, but I can see it, both in how he bears himself, and in how he speaks. 

One point I would like to make is his aversion to all competition. I don't know many ISFP guys who would just diss that entirely. I hated sports in school, but competition was not something I hated. I could be quite competitive, especially in one-on-one type sports--ping pong, fencing, basketball games like HORSE. Anti-competition is not a male ISFP trait, but does seem to be INFP. Just that point alone would enough to make me rethink ISFP for this guy. But there are other points that just don't make me think ISFP. I'll be honest, I don't really like INFP guys. They strike me as way too soft. I don't know how else to say it, but when I spend too much time around INFP guys, or watching them, they grate on me in little ways. This guy does that to me--albeit it only in little ways...


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## Psychopomp (Oct 3, 2012)

ferroequinologist said:


> You know, you can't always go by the language somebody uses. They are actors, talking about a film, and recollecting. And they are in an interview, with an interviewer asking them questions--they are trained and capable. I can say that I do not get an ISFP vibe from this guy. He is too detached from the world around him (they mention Fi for the crossed legs thing, but it also shows a bit of a lack of Se as well--it took him several minutes to notice it.) I couldn't say for sure, but what I did notice was a separation from reality that I see in my Ne-aux wife (INTP). I can't put it into words, but I can see it, both in how he bears himself, and in how he speaks.
> 
> One point I would like to make is his aversion to all competition. I don't know many ISFP guys who would just diss that entirely. I hated sports in school, but competition was not something I hated. I could be quite competitive, especially in one-on-one type sports--ping pong, fencing, basketball games like HORSE. Anti-competition is not a male ISFP trait, but does seem to be INFP. Just that point alone would enough to make me rethink ISFP for this guy. But there are other points that just don't make me think ISFP. I'll be honest, I don't really like INFP guys. They strike me as way too soft. I don't know how else to say it, but when I spend too much time around INFP guys, or watching them, they grate on me in little ways. This guy does that to me--albeit it only in little ways...


In the context of this post, I would question whether these 'soft' people you cite are INFP at all. I don't see them as soft... and have not met any I'd call 'soft', though I know that such a stereotype exists. I've never remotely seen it verified. I certainly wouldn't exclude the possibility, but I just haven't seen it. It has never been a criteria of mine because it doesn't make any freaking sense. Where in the functions does it show how INFPs will be 'soft'? Especially compared to ISFP? Actually, my impressions of people have yielded the opposite: that ISFPs tend to be more 'soft'... but, I don't base anything off that, because there are so many exceptions. 

What the functions do tell me is that they will be Ne. That, I can work with.

I can't work with your vague impressions. There is nothing I can do with that. I can tell you what Ne is and I can demand that an INFP typing includes evidence of it. That feels pretty straightforward to me. Certainly a lot more useful than an impressionistic association to someone I can't verify the type of (an association I don't share at all) and correlations to people I don't know (correlations I don't share).

Do you get Si-esque impressions like this often?


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## Kintsugi (May 17, 2011)

ferroequinologist said:


> I do not get an Se vibe from him. I don't know how to describe it, except to say that he has the same sort of physical disconnect that my INTP wife has--Ne, not Se. That's my quick take on it.


I completely agree. He has that scatty/disconnected energy that I associate with Ne. 

I definitely think she's an xSFJ though.


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## ferroequinologist (Jul 27, 2012)

arkigos said:


> In the context of this post, I would question whether these 'soft' people you cite are INFP at all. I don't see them as soft... and have not met any I'd call 'soft', though I know that such a stereotype exists. I've never remotely seen it verified. I certainly wouldn't exclude the possibility, but I just haven't seen it. It has never been a criteria of mine because it doesn't make any freaking sense. Where in the functions does it show how INFPs will be 'soft'? Especially compared to ISFP? Actually, my impressions of people have yielded the opposite: that ISFPs tend to be more 'soft'... but, I don't base anything off that, because there are so many exceptions.
> 
> What the functions do tell me is that they will be Ne. That, I can work with.
> 
> ...


That's Ni, not Si... It's a pattern, not impressions. Hard to explain... ;-)

And I can also get why you don't understand my use of the word "soft", because it's an entirely Se thing to see, and difficult for me to explain. I can only say that ISFP (SE type) may seem softer to you, than INFP (Ne type). Why? I can't explain, other than to say that you share Ne at the same level with INFP. 

Oh, and by the way, you sound just like my wife. ;-)

I can try to explain the softness from my perspective. ISFP's first extroverted function is Se. It is _very_ concrete. We manipulate the physical world directly--play an instrument, wield a brush, or a tool, dance, run, play, etc. We interact directly with the world. This can make us seem "edgy" at times. Also, our interests tend to be directly related to the physical world or manipulating the physical world. INFPs, in my little experience, tend to be less connected to this world, and less interested in manipulating or using this physical space around us. Ne tends to make them and you, rather passive when it comes to a sense of control of others around us as well. I will use words intended to draw one to action (Te). Ne tends to express aversion to this. This is the softness to which I am referring. It is this softness that I saw expressed both physically in this interview, and in words. I would have to re-watch it to remember specific instances, but you can get a glimpse of this when he discusses school. He is quite intense, but still not willing to, for instance, call people fools or cruel, or whatnot. And also, like I said in my earlier post, ISFP males can be quite competitive, and are not afraid to express it, should the occasion call for it. His total aversion to competition is the sort of thing that Ne would express, not Se. I hated team sports as a kid, but that didn't make me non-competitive. This competitive nature will out itself in our Te expressions. Again, I don't see that in this interview. Again, it's subtle, and not so easy for me to describe. I can only conclude thusly, that in this interview, I see a bearing that is much more similar to my wife's Ne behavior than to typical ISFP behavior--a detachment that I don't relate with Ni, but with Ne. These are observations of mine. I would sort of expect an INTP to catch that similarity, but maybe not, because his lack of verbal fluidity is more similar to ISFP than to the fluidity of INTP. Plus, it is expressed through Te, so maybe you don't observe the similarities with INTP that I do... But in any case, there is more to me to suggest INFP than ISFP. That's the most I can say.


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## Kintsugi (May 17, 2011)

arkigos said:


> In the context of this post, I would question whether these 'soft' people you cite are INFP at all. I don't see them as soft... and have not met any I'd call 'soft', though I know that such a stereotype exists. I've never remotely seen it verified. I certainly wouldn't exclude the possibility, but I just haven't seen it. It has never been a criteria of mine because it doesn't make any freaking sense. Where in the functions does it show how INFPs will be 'soft'? Especially compared to ISFP? Actually, my impressions of people have yielded the opposite: that ISFPs tend to be more 'soft'... but, I don't base anything off that, because there are so many exceptions.


In my experience, INFPs can come off as "soft" to Se-ego types. It's more of physical thing, than anything. Mentally, they are not soft at all. I am often fascinated with their incredible minds; they can hold their own in a debate and I respect that. However, when it comes to physical presence and action (i.e. actually implementing their ideas in the real world), I can see them really struggling. My response to this would be to give them a good reality slap and tell them to pull their socks up. If we want to get this shit done, we need to start taking action, etc. Experience has taught me that this is definitely _not _the best way to help or encourage INFPs. I'm forever misunderstanding them, the lack of focus on the Se-perspective is all too often perceived as a weakness by me. I'm slowly learning though. Whereas the INFP is all about waging (Fi-driven) wars with words and ideas; the ISFP is going to be more about waging (Fi-driven) wars with action; and it is for this reason that I, an Se-dominant, definitely perceive INFPs to be "softer" than the ISFP.

EDIT: The post above explains it much better than I did, we are basically trying to say the same thing.


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## Psychopomp (Oct 3, 2012)

@ferroequinologist @Kintsugi - Okay, fair enough, I think I misinterpreted soft. It's a lens thing, I get that. 

I am sure you can understand how I can't accept the premise of your assertions that he seems more INFP. 

Also, on the point of competition: You should see us (myself and an INFP) when the Scrabble board comes out. Shit. Gets. Real.

---

Though, admittedly, the only time I've seen a game of Risk devolve into actual violence was between an ISTP and an ESFP.


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## Kintsugi (May 17, 2011)

arkigos said:


> @_ferroequinologist_ @_Kintsugi_ - Okay, fair enough, I think I misinterpreted soft. It's a lens thing, I get that.
> 
> I am sure you can understand how I can't accept the premise of your assertions that he seems more INFP.
> 
> ...


Tbh, the vibes I got about that actor possibly being Ne not Se (whatever his name is, wasn't paying much attention) were from watching that small video clip, so I'm not really in a position where I could provide a stronger argument. I feel like I would need the help of an Ni-dom to do so anyhow; I often don't make a lot of sense when it comes to attempting to describe my random "hunches". 

Also, I'm ALL about Risk. Love that game! ^_^


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## GentleBlossom (Apr 6, 2013)

FearAndTrembling said:


> I have been observing the differences between and INFP co worker and me.
> 
> He doesn't realize the game. Obviously people use Fe, differently. But I am detached, so I use Fe as a tool to protect me from the environment. It's like the environment is a tent, and I am trying to keep it from collapsing on me. So I have to constantly fidget with it. So, nearly every conversation is somewhat calculated, to give me enough room to escape, or maintain a larger goal. He doesn't realize words have consequences. That's why I don't talk. Because the more I talk, the more people are going to expect out of me. So, he gets friendly with people, and they take advantage of him. He doesn't realize that a lot of business conversation is just one person trying to get something from another. He just thinks it is conversation. He doesn't grasp the greater environment. He is genuinely friendly, and innocent. But he needs to be protected from the environment even more than I do, but he isn't aware or capable of constructing that outer barrier that I do.
> 
> Some paranoid people always look for emergency exits, just in case something happens. They like to know where they are. That is me with the environment. Fe is how I wade through it, protect myself, and get out. It's like a wetsuit. I don't want to get wet. Fi doesn't have a wetsuit. So that is why they are always getting wet.


That makes me sad. But when I think about myself, I guess you're right. (My Fi doesn't protect me from highschool hierarchy).


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

arkigos said:


> In the context of this post, I would question whether these 'soft' people you cite are INFP at all. I don't see them as soft... and have not met any I'd call 'soft', though I know that such a stereotype exists. I've never remotely seen it verified. I certainly wouldn't exclude the possibility, but I just haven't seen it. It has never been a criteria of mine because it doesn't make any freaking sense. Where in the functions does it show how INFPs will be 'soft'? Especially compared to ISFP? Actually, my impressions of people have yielded the opposite: that ISFPs tend to be more 'soft'... but, I don't base anything off that, because there are so many exceptions.
> 
> What the functions do tell me is that they will be Ne. That, I can work with.
> 
> ...


 @ferroequinologist @Kintsugi

They are "soft" when compared to Se for the same reason Se types are usually described as "harsh". I get this about Ne-Si types in general regardless of their type (NP/SJ). They just shy away from more direct confrontation usually. There's this part where even I as Se inferior can push an ESFJ and make them crumble and give in to my demands. I couldn't do this with an ENFJ because they feel more secure in their Se than I do. I have an INFP friend IRL and her boyfriend often refuses to do as she says on purpose just to piss her off. Now, the difference between her and an ISFP would be that an ISFP just wouldn't tolerate that bullshit for very long but would literally force/make him to what she told him to. She won't do that but she'll just sit in the kitchen and complain all day at him and tell him "but just please do it". 

INFPs have strong moral values yes, and they value those strongly, but they still come across as "soft" because they just lack presence and force, a sense of direction. It takes a lot more to get an INFP stir into action than an ISFP. You even see this in fiction. It's very obvious. INFP characters are usually labeled as "soft" and if they happened to be male protagonists in particular, they are pussies, wussies, you name it. The more action-oriented the story is, the more of a wuss the INFP is seen as because they just lack that presence the story would normally dictate the character to possess. 

When/if [arkigos] decides to read/watch the entirety of Bleach you'll know exactly what I mean. People want the INFP to take action and exact "harsh" moral judgement upon the world but the INFP won't do that because they favor their ideals fueled by Ne vision. Instead you see someone like Ichigo constantly being kicked around by all those Se types he's fighting against and to a degree emotionally manipulated by those around him. Even when he is taking direct action it seems somewhat weak and lacking in force. I'm particularly thinking of the end of Deicide when Ichigo challenges Aizen to a fight. It's like the force of will just isn't there.

Still haven't gotten around finishing NGE but I'll make a montage comparison of ESFP and INFP so you see what I mean. It's a viscerally felt thing.


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## ferroequinologist (Jul 27, 2012)

arkigos said:


> @_ferroequinologist_ @_Kintsugi_ - Okay, fair enough, I think I misinterpreted soft. It's a lens thing, I get that.
> 
> I am sure you can understand how I can't accept the premise of your assertions that he seems more INFP.
> 
> ...


You haven't seen "competitive" until you see me lose at Scrabble. ;-) OK, I'm a sore loser... ;-) But my wife, on the other hand, is a killer at Scrabble. She plays online, and is usually in the top 20-50 online at the time she's online--regularly scores around 350 or more, and this is in a 3 minute game (four minutes per player, actually, but that last min. gets a penalty). She's mean, brutal and merciless. I used to think I was good at Stratego and Risk until I started playing really good players in college. I quit after that. I did better playing at tennis, ping pong and basketball. ;-)

I also understand why you can't accept my observations--it's an Se thing, and doesn't translate to words well--even if I could describe word-by-word, movement/gesture/expression-by-movement/gesture/expression, you couldn't accept that. That's fine... I'm used to that. ;-)


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## Eudaimonia (Sep 24, 2013)

FearAndTrembling said:


> INFP are obvious introverts. Obvious feelers. Obvious perceivers. INFJ are not obvious introverts, not obvious feelers, and not obvious judgers. My friend is an INFP everywhere. They are a more defined type. INFJ are more ambiguous. To some people, I am am an ESTP, to some, I am an ISTJ, and perhaps some other types, but my friend is always an INFP.
> 
> We both realize we are behind enemy lines, but I go on red alert. My shields are up. Battle stations. I am totally alert in the environment, and aware of how to thwart it. He doesn't go through that transformation.
> 
> INFP are probably actually my favorite type, because they are just about the only type where I don't have to have my shields up. They can actually stand silence, and not make it uncomfortable.


He always seems to be himself in every given situation, so I see what you are saying. I've only known two in my lifetime and from what I've seen neither put up any pretenses about who they are and how they feel.


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## Eudaimonia (Sep 24, 2013)

ferroequinologist said:


> You haven't seen "competitive" until you see me lose at Scrabble. ;-) OK, I'm a sore loser... ;-) But my wife, on the other hand, is a killer at Scrabble. She plays online, and is usually in the top 20-50 online at the time she's online--regularly scores around 350 or more, and this is in a 3 minute game (four minutes per player, actually, but that last min. gets a penalty). She's mean, brutal and merciless. I used to think I was good at Stratego and Risk until I started playing really good players in college. I quit after that. I did better playing at tennis, ping pong and basketball. ;-)
> 
> I also understand why you can't accept my observations--it's an Se thing, and doesn't translate to words well--even if I could describe word-by-word, movement/gesture/expression-by-movement/gesture/expression, you couldn't accept that. That's fine... I'm used to that. ;-)


There is a saying in my family which I think was started by my father that we may be good losers, but when it comes to winning, we are intolerable. :tongue:


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