# Why All the Negativity About ISTJ + INFP Romantic Relationships?



## RubyFiligree (Sep 15, 2012)

1) Yes, this topic has been discussed MANY times. I'm sorry if you're annoyed to see it again, but you're the one that clicked on it.

2) I have read almost every thread on ISTJ + INFP relationships. I don't need links to those threads.

3) I have read both extremely positive and extremely negative posts about ISTJ + INFP romantic relationships. I would say most of what I read has been pretty negative. 

4) Some of these negative posts are from negative personal experiences or people that have witnessed actual negative experiences. This I can understand - although it doesn't make all ISTJ/INFP relationships negative.

5) I've noticed, that many people make posts with the assumption that it's a bad match without giving any reason or references to back it up.

5) Going back to my main question - Why is there so much negativity surrounding ISTJ and INFP relationships? 

Sub questions:
*If people haven't experienced or witnessed this kind of relationship, how are they making this judgement? 
*Are there real references (books, articles, websites) that actually say this is a bad match and explain why?
*Are there real references that say the that it is a good or at least "okay" match and explain why?

I'm in an INFP/ISTJ marriage so have my own views on this topic. I can see how it can be an excellent match and also a horrible match. I am interested in knowing where the negativity is coming from (aside from personal experiences). However, I am always interested in hearing others' personal experiences with this and letting them hear mine (if they want).


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## LiquidLight (Oct 14, 2011)

Because people are erroneously blaming their relationship problems on type.


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## HonestAndTrue (Oct 25, 2012)

*3) I have read both extremely positive and extremely negative posts about ISTJ + INFP romantic relationships. I would say most of what I read has been pretty negative. *

People don't usually vent about the positive. I'd also say many people here are trying to find themselves and don't have success stories to share.

*5) Going back to my main question - Why is there so much negativity surrounding ISTJ and INFP relationships? 

If people haven't experienced or witnessed this kind of relationship, how are they making this judgement? *

By looking at the functions. Which all four are shared, but 1-2 is 3-4 for the other.

*Are there real references (books, articles, websites) that actually say this is a bad match and explain why?*

ISTJ types are "win-lose". INFP types are "win-win".

*Are there real references that say the that it is a good or at least "okay" match and explain why?*

Both are lifelong commitment types. I see great potential in this match. Each can help the other develop their 3-4.

I'd offer some advice that applies to any two. I'll also assume the INFP is female and the ISTJ is male, as 1 in 6 guys is an ISTJ. (Another bonus for INFP, by not excluding ISTJ you have a bigger pool of guys.)

1. There should be regular periods of time where men listen and women speak. Men should not give their opinion but instead say back to the woman what she said to him. If what he said back doesn't match what she said she should say it in another way to him. This should continue until what she says to him, as judged by her, matches what he says back to her. This allows the man to know and understand what she is saying and also makes sure she is heard. In most cases the man still shouldn't offer his immediate opinion but think through what she said.

2. Women need to be open, honest, and critical. You need to share your thoughts and feelings, your issues, problems, suggestions, needs, wants. If number one above is in place you should feel more comfortable doing this. Also you should know it is welcome. Don't suffer silently.

Both ISTJ and INFP will put the effort in. The key is communication, especially INFP->ISTJ.


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## Haydn (Sep 20, 2012)

RubyFiligree said:


> 1) Yes, this topic has been discussed MANY times. I'm sorry if you're annoyed to see it again, but you're the one that clicked on it.
> 
> 2) I have read almost every thread on ISTJ + INFP relationships. I don't need links to those threads.
> 
> ...


I am not an INFP but I have seen this relationship work very well. In fact, NFPs and most SJs seem to work rather well. The two INFP/ISTJ relationships that I have observed most closely seem to revolve around the ISTJ being some sort of carer/provider and the INFP being or giving the impression somewhat of a innocent, dreamy, child in need of protection/care/teaching from the ISFJ but they also seem to take ISTJ out of a kind of dreary rut as well.


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## Raichu (Aug 24, 2012)

RubyFiligree said:


> I've noticed, that many people make posts with the assumption that it's a bad match without giving any reason or references to back it up.


Probably they just look at the preferences and go "Look, they have nothing in common except introversion. Clearly not gonna work out." There was even a thread a bit ago where someone was saying people should _only_ date others that were the same type as them. I think most people will agree that's a bit extreme, because how can you cover each other's weaknesses? Still, most people are probably thinking it's best to have some preferences in common. They probably don't realize that INFP's and ISTJ's have all the same functions, though.

I think a lot of people, including the internet, think that there are just certain types that are better together than the other types. The internet usually says that an ideal ISTP match is ExTJ, which is just no. I'm usually attracted to ExFP's. I mean, would it be "smart" to match a P with a J? Sure, they'd balance each other out. In theory. Do I think I'll always be happiest with a J? No. I think it's annoying when people have to schedule and plan and organize things. I was going to go shopping with my ESTJ sister, and she said "hold on, let me just make a list of everything we need," and I wanted to pull my hair out.

Now, I don't think I could never get along with a J. If I met one that I liked and got along with, that's great. Our bills will get paid and our dishes will get washed. Win-win. I just think I tend to get along with P's better. And just like a P/J couple is the "smarter" match, I think marrying another T would be a "smarter" match for me. And yet I'm attracted to F's. What're you going to do?

The thing is, stereotyping is bad, but you can't talk about type compatibility without stereotyping. You just can't. So you let everyone else ruin their lives because they just realized their fiancee is a sensor and gosh that just won't do, and as for yourself, you go fall in love with whoever you fall in love with. Use your MBTI knowledge to strengthen relationships, not to destroy them before they even start. That's not what it was made for. People who use MBTI as an excuse to ignore certain types are completely missing the point. Don't use it to justify the problem, use it to solve the problem. Like just because that guy's an ESTJ and the internet told me we'd be perfect together, that doesn't mean he's Mr. Perfect Angel, he could still be a jerk, and just because someone else is an INFP doesn't mean he's gonna steal my wallet or beat my dog. He could have been my soul mate, but now I'm a cranky old cat lady because the internet told me to marry an ESTJ. Thanks a lot, internet. Thanks a lot. But the internet won't help me clean out the twenty litter boxes in my basement, will it?


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## Psychopomp (Oct 3, 2012)

I asked my INFP friend about a relationship with an ISTJ and he replied:

"I would rather blow my own brains out of my head and die."

Seems a little extreme. LOL. Another said:

"i think i would not like it at all."

But that is them talking about ISTJs as a concept or in general. One on one, person to person things can change. 

I know of an ENFP / ISTJ relationship that worked well. She (ISTJ) mostly was just happy to be there and he was happy to have things taken care of. They laughed a lot. I think that the fundamental difference in values would eventually have grated on them. He died which sort of put the kibosh on the relationship... now many years later she admits that in the long term there would have been issues related to type. It wouldn't have broken them up per se but it would have been something they needed to address in the long run to avoid disappointment or resentment.


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## niss (Apr 25, 2010)

I just skimmed this thread, but the responses from @HonestAndTrue and @LiquidLight are spot on. People in successful relationships seldom vent about their relationships, and people that have failed relationships tend to seek out something simple (read: doesn't involve difficult personal growth) to blame for the failed relationship.


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## RubyFiligree (Sep 15, 2012)

HonestAndTrue said:


> *If people haven't experienced or witnessed this kind of relationship, how are they making this judgement? *
> 
> By looking at the functions. Which all four are shared, but 1-2 is 3-4 for the other.


Maybe it's because I'm still learning about MBTI but how would this create issues?



HonestAndTrue said:


> *Are there real references (books, articles, websites) that actually say this is a bad match and explain why?*
> 
> ISTJ types are "win-lose". INFP types are "win-win".


I can vouch for this. Both of us have gotten better at communicating (especially him) :wink:


HonestAndTrue said:


> *Are there real references that say the that it is a good or at least "okay" match and explain why?*
> 
> Both are lifelong commitment types. I see great potential in this match. Each can help the other develop their 3-4.


I would say that this is mostly true for us. While I have the commitment of an INFP, I also have some Enneagram Type 7 tendencies :blushed: He's a Type 6, so it makes things interesting at times.



HonestAndTrue said:


> 1. There should be regular periods of time where men listen and women speak. Men should not give their opinion but instead say back to the woman what she said to him. If what he said back doesn't match what she said she should say it in another way to him. This should continue until what she says to him, as judged by her, matches what he says back to her. This allows the man to know and understand what she is saying and also makes sure she is heard. In most cases the man still shouldn't offer his immediate opinion but think through what she said.


We've learned this in couple's counseling. It's very effective. I would say this advice is also good for women who tend to "trample" their men.





HonestAndTrue said:


> 2. Women need to be open, honest, and critical. You need to share your thoughts and feelings, your issues, problems, suggestions, needs, wants. If number one above is in place you should feel more comfortable doing this. Also you should know it is welcome. Don't suffer silently.
> 
> Both ISTJ and INFP will put the effort in. The key is communication, especially INFP->ISTJ.


I agree and like #1, this applies to men too. Some guys (like security-seeking, high-achieving, peacemakers) tend to play the martyr and bury their problems deep inside. You're exactly right, it's A LOT about how you communicate that makes a healthy marriage


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## RubyFiligree (Sep 15, 2012)

Haydn said:


> I am not an INFP but I have seen this relationship work very well. In fact, NFPs and most SJs seem to work rather well. The two INFP/ISTJ relationships that I have observed most closely seem to revolve around the ISTJ being some sort of carer/provider and the INFP being or giving the impression somewhat of a innocent, dreamy, child in need of protection/care/teaching from the ISFJ but they also seem to take ISTJ out of a kind of dreary rut as well.


I would agree with this. My husband took on the role of carer/provider in the relationship, even though we're only 4 years apart. When we dated, I had raging ADHD, was still dealing with my issues from abuse as a teen, and I was working on going back to college (he had already gotten his master's degree). 

Even though this relationship met some of the needs we both had, it also created a bit of resentment for the both of us. When he treated me like "the child" in the relationship, I felt very disrespected. The last thing I wanted was to be nagged, given unsolicited advice, and be told I was doing things "wrong". For him, he felt forced into the role of "parent" because my ADHD symptoms overwhelmed him and he wanted to help me - which felt a lot more like control than help to me. Apparently the parent-child dynamic is very common in couple's in which one person has ADHD. Fortunately, we do NOT have this issue anymore and are/feel like equal partners in the relationship - thanks to medication, counseling, and some unfortunate triggers that caused of to seek help.

You are exactly right about the rut thing. My husband's natural tendency is to get into and stay in dreary ruts. As a INFP, Type 7, I cannot stand for it. Sometimes, he fights me when I try to get him out of ruts but he mostly goes with my ideas and enjoys them (as long as they are well-planned and we are mostly prepared for them):laughing: We definitely complement each other and have become more balanced people because of one another. It's crazy that our relationship lasted through dating and went on to marriage given how extreme our differences were, but I'm glad it did. Despite poking at some of his flaws, he is an AMAZING guy roud:


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## RubyFiligree (Sep 15, 2012)

raichu said:


> Probably they just look at the preferences and go "Look, they have nothing in common except introversion. Clearly not gonna work out." There was even a thread a bit ago where someone was saying people should _only_ date others that were the same type as them. I think most people will agree that's a bit extreme, because how can you cover each other's weaknesses? Still, most people are probably thinking it's best to have some preferences in common. They probably don't realize that INFP's and ISTJ's have all the same functions, though.
> 
> I think a lot of people, including the internet, think that there are just certain types that are better together than the other types. The internet usually says that an ideal ISTP match is ExTJ, which is just no. I'm usually attracted to ExFP's. I mean, would it be "smart" to match a P with a J? Sure, they'd balance each other out. In theory. Do I think I'll always be happiest with a J? No. I think it's annoying when people have to schedule and plan and organize things. I was going to go shopping with my ESTJ sister, and she said "hold on, let me just make a list of everything we need," and I wanted to pull my hair out.
> 
> ...


I guess you're right: there is a bit of stereotyping in MBTI. I like how you say to use it to solve, not justify, the problems you have in a relationship. What's strange is I tend to be attracted to the "nerdy" or "geeky" guy - the guy who's smart in STEM (Science Techology Engineering Math) kind of way. Yet, I connect best with ENFX's. I feel like they really understand me and that I can understand them. I've gotten better at understanding my husband (and vice-versa) but there are still many times when we look at each other as if we are coming from two different planets. Things have been rough in our relationship but with counseling, better communication, and treatment of prior issues, we've are doing wonderfully. We get along very well and are better able to problem-solve and find "win-win" situations.


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## RubyFiligree (Sep 15, 2012)

arkigos said:


> I asked my INFP friend about a relationship with an ISTJ and he replied:
> 
> "I would rather blow my own brains out of my head and die."
> 
> ...


Like I said, I can see "both sides of the coin". I've been the relationship and have thought, "What the f*** was I thinking! This person drives me crazy, will never meet my needs, and I want out!":frustrating: This is when things were REALLY bad. Like I said in previous posts, counseling, better communication, and address individual issues we had prior to our relationship has helped a lot. Now, I usually think, "I'm so lucky to have such a great guy. We make an awesome team and complement each other. We've both become better, balanced people because of one another. It's a joy to have him in my life. I cannot imagine what things would be like without him.":happy:


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## RubyFiligree (Sep 15, 2012)

niss said:


> I just skimmed this thread, but the responses from @_HonestAndTrue_ and @_LiquidLight_ are spot on. People in successful relationships seldom vent about their relationships, and people that have failed relationships tend to seek out something simple (read: doesn't involve difficult personal growth) to blame for the failed relationship.


I tend to agree with this. It takes two people for a relationship to fail (with a few exceptions, like abuse). I don't know why but I actually like personal growth, EVEN if it's difficult. I've been through A LOT of it but I'm glad that I'm a better, balanced, more mature person because of it. I wouldn't take back the hardships. I embrace opportunities to improve myself. As a person, I tend to be honest with both the positive and the negative. I feel like I'm being true to myself and to others when I am honest in this way. People usually appreciate it when someone is honest and they tend to be more authentic themselves when they see someone is being authentic.


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## Cajole (Jul 15, 2012)

I'm an INFP in the process of divorcing an alleged ISTJ. He was/is suffering from untreated mental illness on the schizophrenic spectrum and should not be used to unfairly judge a type. 

In this case I took care of him and felt fundamentally unimportant and devalued by him. Attempts at communication left me exasperated beyond anything I can convey in words. I do not know where he began and the illness ended, but my disdain is for the individual NOT the type. I do not believe illness should absolve us of the responsibility we have as people, with actions judged on their merit and fundamental humanity. This particular human being insisted that my FEELINGS were ridiculous and invalid because they did not make sense to him. His defense against illness was to point the finger at me. My greatest hope is that he gets the treatment and help he needs. 

Honestly, ...another ISTJ SO would be a tough sell at this point. Wouldn't mind being friends though as there was something that I loved right before reality crushed my idealism.


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## HonestAndTrue (Oct 25, 2012)

RubyFiligree said:


> Maybe it's because I'm still learning about MBTI but how would this create issues?


Most of what I'm reading says one I and one E, one J and one P, and the dominant in the opposite direction. Then again I just read today that Myers, of Myers and Briggs, was an INFP married 61 years to an ISTJ. Because he was so different they studied types and created MBTI. Had she known about types before they met she may not have married him, and perhaps there wouldn't have been MBTI.


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## RubyFiligree (Sep 15, 2012)

Cajole said:


> I'm an INFP in the process of divorcing an alleged ISTJ. He was/is suffering from untreated mental illness on the schizophrenic spectrum and should not be used to unfairly judge a type.
> 
> In this case I took care of him and felt fundamentally unimportant and devalued by him. Attempts at communication left me exasperated beyond anything I can convey in words. I do not know where he began and the illness ended, but my disdain is for the individual NOT the type. I do not believe illness should absolve us of the responsibility we have as people, with actions judged on their merit and fundamental humanity. This particular human being insisted that my FEELINGS were ridiculous and invalid because they did not make sense to him. His defense against illness was to point the finger at me. My greatest hope is that he gets the treatment and help he needs.
> 
> Honestly, ...another ISTJ SO would be a tough sell at this point. Wouldn't mind being friends though as there was something that I loved right before reality crushed my idealism.


I am glad you felt comfortable enough to post this in this thread. Being in a relationship with someone who is suffering from untreated mental illness is difficult, especially when that person doesn't acknowledge the illness and seek treatment. I don't know anyone who has schizophrenia, but I know it is a very difficult illness to live with and deal with. When someone has a mental illness, it is hard to know who they REALLY are. I would say many people with mental illness often don't understand who they are (whether they acknowledge the illness or not). Unfortunately, my husband had to deal with my untreated mental illness (depression, ADHD, PTSD). He wasn't and isn't exactly mentally sound himself. He can be very anxious and has some OCD and Asperger tendencies (that he readily admits to). The thing was that neither one of us really knew what we were dealing with. I didn't want to sad, anxious, scattered, and distrusting to the point of being dysfunctional. Once we figured it out what was going on, we took action. I got on meds, we both got counseling, and we both became more educated. Life is so much better now. You're right, mental illness should not absolve anyone from being responsible for their actions. My heart breaks for the person who suffering from mental illness so much that they can't even acknowledge it: it's like they are drowning in it. My heart also breaks for the person who has to live with a person who has untreated mental illness. They develop their own negative symptoms in response and begin to become someone they don't want to be. I'm glad you wish the best for him and I'm sorry that you had to go through this pain. Mental illness is the nasty "third wheel" that destroys relationships. I think if someone refuses treatment and you have done all that you can reasonably do, it's best to leave the marriage. When someone has a significant, untreated mental illness, it is as if they are bringing another person (a destructive, horrible person) into the marriage. If a person refuses to seek treatment, that "third wheel" is there to stay. 

I love my husband dearly. I hope I get to spend the rest of my life with him and I'm committed to making my marriage work and enjoying it as long as we're both living. Having said this, if I were to marry again, I probably wouldn't marry another ISTJ. I think that, having gone through the whole difficult marriage thing, I would probably seek out a simpler, more natural relationship. I could see myself subjecting potential partners with massive amounts of personality tests in hopes that maybe things would be a little easier :laughing:


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## bluesparks (Nov 20, 2012)

I am brand new to this forum and just found out that I am an INFP! I had my partner take the test because I was curious. It turns out he is an ISTJ. I'm actually very surprised to see so many negative responses about this pairing because we have been together over two years now and friends for over ten. People constantly comment on how great we are together. Throughout our friendship we would talk for hours and hours because we "got" each other more than most of the other people in our lives. His traveling and my being in a relationship with someone else were the only things really keeping it from becoming romantic much sooner than two years ago. But by the time he got home from a deployment with the army (not a surprising career choice for an ISTJ) I was single and we decided to hang out and of course got together as a couple almost immediately. We have had arguments like any other couple but having been in a terrible and abusive relationship in the past, I can safely say that this one is solid. Maybe we have more of a stake in it than some couples because of our friendship, but I still think the relationship is so strong there is something just fundamentally there that makes it work. We have very similar values as far as honesty and integrity so that helps. The times where we have had problems it has usually been lack of communication... mostly I need something from him emotionally that he's not providing.. but once I'm able to tell him what I need he will do whatever it takes to meet that need. And I am very considerate of his needs as well.. I'm just a little bit more intuitive so he doesn't really have to spell it out for me as much. I can tell when he's drained and needs to avoid going and being social to recharge. We both are very invested in the relationship and care very much about the well being of the other so it just works even when there is conflict. I hope this is a helpful answer


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## mrhcmll (Nov 22, 2013)

I guess it's just down to the preference of the person?

As an INFP who's fairly independent (I generally hate asking for other people's help, not that that's a basis for independence but), I find it really tiring taking care of myself and just making decisions on my own. Naturally, I really want someone who's in control and has no problem leading my life. And since most ESTJs just trample INFPs (I've had experience with them), I'd rather go with ISTJs.

I also have an ISTJ friend and we really get along well. We have the same morals and ideas at times too. We often say the things at the same time as well. She calms me down when I get too excited or vocal about my opinions and I help her expand her imagination I guess?

Now my only problem is finding a male ISTJ..


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## JanuaryJuly (Mar 17, 2014)

I'm an INFP and was married to an ISTJ for 13 years. We had a very strong connection, he was/is an excellent father. I still consider him a good friend. We were very good together. Our downfall was that he didn't understand his own emotions and unhappiness. In the end he could not explain how he arrived at a place of dishonesty and infidelity. He couldn't comprehend his own feelings other than that he was "mad". I feel there are a lot of social types that are apt to misunderstand INFP's. We live a lot of our time in our heads feeling things out. My ISTJ partner did give me a lot of room to breathe and seemed to counteract moments of unbridled emotion with patient logic and calming facts such as a simple,"I love you". Which at the moment was a fact that within confusing confines of a fight or "dark time" INFP's seem to most desperately need to hear.

I do enjoy my STJ family members and friends. At times NF's seem to probe and get under my skin during those times when I want my feelings to be invisible to others. STJ's also take a different approach to things that could off-kilter say.....an ENFJ which is supposedly our mirror personality. ISTJ's are sometimes hard to reach emotionally at times. I would want a deeper reaction or understanding and realize it wasn't there, or his willingness to jump into my world just wasn't there. 

It wasn't a horrible relationship. But we aren't together anymore.


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## JanuaryJuly (Mar 17, 2014)

I'm an INFP and was married to an ISTJ for 13 years. We had a very strong connection, he was/is an excellent father. I still consider him a good friend. We were very good together. Our downfall was that he didn't understand his own emotions and unhappiness. In the end he could not explain how he arrived at a place of dishonesty and infidelity. He couldn't comprehend his own feelings other than that he was "mad". I feel there are a lot of social types that are apt to misunderstand INFP's. We live a lot of our time in our heads feeling things out. My ISTJ partner did give me a lot of room to breathe and seemed to counteract moments of unbridled emotion with patient logic and calming facts such as a simple,"I love you". Which at the moment was a fact that within confusing confines of a fight or "dark time" INFP's seem to most desperately need to hear.

I do enjoy my STJ family members and friends. At times NF's seem to probe and get under my skin during those times when I want my feelings to be invisible to others. STJ's also take a different approach to things that could off-kilter say.....an ENFJ which is supposedly our mirror personality. ISTJ's are sometimes hard to reach emotionally at times. I would want a deeper reaction or understanding and realize it wasn't there, or his willingness to jump into my world just wasn't there. 

It wasn't a horrible relationship. But we aren't together anymore.


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## EccentricSiren (Sep 3, 2013)

I can't speak about other relationships, just my own personal experience. I dated an ISTJ, and we had a great time at the beginning, but it didn't work out in the end, and I wouldn't want to date another person similar to him. He was just so harsh and rigid in the end, when I needed someone to be understanding. And it seemed like he was so determined to be right that he almost wanted to think ill of me.
This could have had more to do with both of our levels of maturity at the time than our types, but I think some of it was type-related. I think also, since I'm kind of the odd one out in my family, personality-wise (I'm an INFP and they are ISFJ, ISTJ, and ISTP, I think), I often feel like the others misunderstand what I'm trying to say, often twisting my words to make me sound like a selfish, immature person (they don't do this to piss me off, they just always misunderstand me). I get really sick of it, and I want my romantic relationship (if I ever have one again) to be with someone who I feel understands me and isn't always assuming the worst about me. I know my family loves me and I love them, but I really want a romantic relationship with a completely different dynamic.
I believe that any two people of any two types can have a successful relationship if they both want it to be successful, and that no relationship will always be easy. However, the more different people are, the more you have to work at it, and some people would rather not have to deal with that and would feel more comfortable with someone more similar to them.


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