# Semi-dual or mirage relations?



## Ixim (Jun 19, 2013)

Istill don't understand the point of this thread. OP must be Ne dom or Ne aux lol.

edit: show yourself. A girl wants to have a friendly chat!


----------



## westlose (Oct 9, 2014)

There is a mutual fascination in semi-duality. It's easy to help each other, with our weakest point. But from my perspective, it wasn't fulfilling enough. I met some SEE, and we understood each-other easily. We both have this sense of power and perception of processes over-time. They helped me to be more in the present and less withdrawn. And they appreciated my ability to foresee what was happening with people. 

But we are both good with people. I can stand logic, but I'm not good enough to help them that much with that. And vice-versa, their Te isn't good enough to help me with action logic. But it was still a good interaction, since we had a shared vision of things around us.

As for mirage relations, they are at the same time annoying and awesome. I have an ILE friend and we often are debating and arguing about stuff. Well, we don't care that much about that, and when we work together we are pretty efficient. This Ti is just what I need to create complex systems. And I can add some organization, and I can also present the work we did, since he's somewhat messy and spontaneous. But he can build complex system, and that's really interesting.

So finally, I don't know which one is better, they are both great relationships. Even if the mirage can be annoying sometimes. But it's easier to be friend with an ILE (maybe because we are both intuitives?) than an SEE for me, so I'll vote Mirage.


----------



## Figure (Jun 22, 2011)

The point of the thread was to see if people have a preference for Semidual or Mirage over one another. These two relationships, along with Activity are seen as being typically "positive," but with tradeoffs to comfort that Duality does not have. They are seen as positive alternatives to Duality. 

I have read authors claiming Semidual is better for Rational types, and Mirage is better for Irrational types. This is likely why we hear that INTP and ENFJ are "most compatible" in MBTI, and same for INTJ and ENFP. 



My experience is that both depend heavily on subtype. As a Te subtype I cannot vouch for Ni/Irrational subtypes, or Rational types of either subtype, however:



 Mirage with shared rational subtype is extremely comfortable and liveable. You get a relaxed feeling when you spend time together, and can easily share opinions and pieces of information feeling like your partner appreciates, for a very long time. The pitfall is, with distance, it's hard to keep the relationship moving once you've discussed all there is to discuss. You share common ground, but they can't hold your intrigue forever. 
 

Mirage with one rational subtype/one irrational is irritating and makes it difficult for partners to respect each other, much like Extinguishment. Your partner seems completely off-track, and while you understand what they are focusing on when they speak or act, it seems pointless. There are shifting feelings of aggravation, and warmth that come and go randomly. 
 

Semidual with the shared rational subtype dampens the affinity you feel towards each other and makes your partner feel more distant, but they are noticeably helpful in shared tasks, and there is a mutual respect for each others' skill sets. You don't get as much of the "moth and the flame" effect. 
 

Semidual whose subtype matches your Suggestive function is very interesting, and catch your attention subconsciously, although you may not realize it. They are visibly effective in areas you respect, and you are very likely to enjoy hanging out. Unlike Mirage/Dual, the affinity remains at an unspoken level and is largely inexplicable; once you actually work together on something, their advice is partially very helpful, but partially also confusing and more in line with their way of doing things than yours. As a result you try to be close and think highly of each other, but can only partially feed from each others' strengths. 

The big picture being, I like ENFP-Fi, and ESTP-Se. For friends, I prefer ESTP/Semidual because of the stimulation, and feels like a good break from my usual state of being. There aren't many ESTP women out there - but I wouldn't have a problem dating one either. ENFP are great in this area, but from experience my concern would be losing interest in each other and drifting off. 


I vote Semidual, but both can be great.


----------



## Vermillion (Jan 22, 2012)

@selena87 uh hello, I was mentioned here rather randomly, but if there's anything you still want to talk about, feel free to PM me. Not gonna derail the thread.

As for OP, I prefer mirage relations. I can handle Si, it's just a little bit redundant for me -- but there's still Te-Fi in SLIs, and I prefer that greatly over Fe-Ti.


----------



## Ixim (Jun 19, 2013)

Amaterasu said:


> @_selena87_ uh hello, I was mentioned here rather randomly, but if there's anything you still want to talk about, feel free to PM me. Not gonna derail the thread.
> 
> As for OP, I prefer mirage relations. I can handle Si, it's just a little bit redundant for me -- but there's still Te-Fi in SLIs, and I prefer that greatly over Fe-Ti.


Yeah, you know me. Random in forceful behaviour. :crazy::crazy:

I wanted her to meet her dual so she could see a thing(sorry for disruption yo!)...


----------



## Vermillion (Jan 22, 2012)

Ixim said:


> Yeah, you know me. Random in forceful behaviour. :crazy::crazy:
> 
> I wanted her to meet her dual so she could see a thing(sorry for disruption yo!)...


Don't apologize, it wasn't a criticism ^_^ It was just random, that's all.


----------



## Ixim (Jun 19, 2013)

Amaterasu said:


> Don't apologize, it wasn't a criticism ^_^ It was just random, that's all.


Neither did I take it as such. Just wanted to use the crazy head(didn't i a long time). And to explain what I wanted to do.


----------



## Vermillion (Jan 22, 2012)

Ixim said:


> Neither did I take it as such. Just wanted to use the crazy head(didn't i a long time). And to explain what I wanted to do.


I love that emote.

:crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy:


----------



## selena87 (Aug 15, 2014)

Hi, sorry Amaterasu for bothering you, yes I am curious about my dual but don't really have anything specific to ask you :laughing: so just ignore me please. 

I like forceful behaviour. Sorry for derailing the thread, leaving now

:laughing:


----------



## Ixim (Jun 19, 2013)

selena87 said:


> Hi, sorry Amaterasu for bothering you, yes I am curious about my dual but don't really have anything specific to ask you :laughing: so just ignore me please.
> 
> I like forceful behaviour. Sorry for derailing the thread, leaving now
> 
> :laughing:


Is your prerogative.

Now I feel like a donkey. Serves me right. You thought...don't think, DO. Why do I make the same mistakes over and over and over again? Ok.


----------



## Ixim (Jun 19, 2013)

Amaterasu said:


> I love that emote.
> 
> :crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy:


Yeah it looks like a crazy robot does it not?


----------



## selena87 (Aug 15, 2014)

Ixim said:


> Is your prerogative.
> 
> Now I feel like a donkey. Serves me right. You thought...don't think, DO. Why do I make the same mistakes over and over and over again? Ok.


No no no I'm not offended at all if that is what you were implying?  Or did I do something wrong? Ugh I don't know what I'm saying, can we all just stop derailing


----------



## Ixim (Jun 19, 2013)

selena87 said:


> No no no I'm not offended at all if that is what you were implying?  Or did I do something wrong? Ugh I don't know what I'm saying, can we all just stop derailing


You did NOTHING WRONG. I was just thinking out loud. Us ESI people have a habit of doing it. I've been told it is so...

edit: if you did, I'd have told it. I don't hold back.


----------



## Monkey King (Nov 16, 2010)

I've found myself attracted to mirage more than semi-dual and that's because I find that my mirage can finish things quickly. Semi duals seem " _meh" _to me but end up becoming my close friends. One of those friends you could spill mental nonsense to. I would say that in the past my semi-duals become attracted to me romantically than the other way around.


----------



## Kintsugi (May 17, 2011)

Mirage would be my wife and semi-dual my mistress. :3


----------



## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

I prefer ESTj over ENFj for the most part.
Still both have their drawbacks so I dunno.
ESTj although more obviously not my perfect match still have that dom Te to redeem them.
Still they are boring as fuck and Si/Ne keep hitting you in the wrong places.

Dom Fe with ENFj is just annoying in the end, like you cannot win.
Once it is obvious that it is indeed a mirage it just becomes awkward.
I guess it could work out if it is like a friends with benefits kind of relationship.
Just playing around and enjoying the Se and Ni.
Other than that it is hopeless for more or less anything.


----------



## Strife (Aug 25, 2010)

mirage for sure, less problematic


----------



## socionicssssss (May 22, 2015)

One is better for you, the other more comfortable to maintain.


----------



## inabox (Oct 3, 2015)

Activity of both subtypes! Oh wait ... that wasn't one of the options  .

Figure made some good points and I agree with some of them.

- When I hang out with mirage partners of the irrational subtype (btw I'm rational), I feel the extinguishment keenly. We don't have a lot to say to each other. It's felt much less when subtypes are matched. Te-Fi makes for great emotional bonding. I dated an Ni-INFp and Te-INTp and I don't really hope to date another victim male again; needless to say my curiousity has been sated. I hope they find great women to be with but thank God, I didn't end up with either of them. Speaking of which, my experience with the Te-INTp mirrored that of the second scenario given in this Stratievskaya article (Socionics - the16types.info - Mirage Relations INTp and ENFp by Stratiyevskaya) (some things are universal, huh?  ). Our conflicting romance styles are a huge pain. Victim men seem to want a show of Se from me which is mighty uncomfortable and I never know what exactly they want so it's easy for me to mess up shows of Se. I believe they feel similarly about my childlike need for Si. Also, the actual victim complexes some of these men have. Te-INTp guy I dated actually said, 'I have a tragic past' ; chill out, genius, you're not Batman. I believe I read in some descriptions that some victim guys see themselves as tragic princes who wish to be rescued; that's an exaggeration I'm sure but it's uh ... metaphorical maybe for something? Facepalm. When I was younger, I overextended myself in situations with victim guys and it was obviously something I should have avoided. Neither me nor my mirage are great with sensory things and it takes a toll in our relationships. Also, neither of us really get what we need. They'd make decent friends, though.
I don't think it's impossible for ENFps to have successful relationships with INTJs but it's not for me.

- I usually like Si-ISFps. I have yet to meet a male one who isn't my nephew ( <3 bb) but I am quite sure I would have dated the other Si-ISFps I know had they been dudes <3 . We do like each other a lot but as Figure said, it's hard to explain why we do but the draw is there (interestingly enough, I knew an Se-ESTP girl who told me she was very attracted to this Te-INTp guy but she didn't know why). Dom Si is so very nice to be around; I like how it's sweet and we have similar methods of cooperation. We don't always understand each other and fail to provide the other's Hidden Agenda needs but we manage to pick each other up. Static worldviews <3 .
Having said that ... well, what's the downside? I knew an Si-ISFp and one of the reasons I deeply disliked her was because she took advantage of my Ti polr, not sure how to put it but I have had that experience with SFJs. I don't know how to put this in very intelligible terms but it's like this: I can't scheme (Ti) so I don't assume other people do. That's a pretty poor description; btw scheming can be good and necessary but it is my polr, so I do sometimes see it as something mean. 
There's also the fact that I understand Si-ISFp makes decisions differently than I do, which can sting. The scenario I can think of is ... well them asking me for advice about something, and me giving them my opinion (in a Te-ish) and they'll choose to do whatever they wanted despite the fact that I had wanted them to do something differently. They make plans more independently (democratic and subjectivist trait?). 

- I do not like Fe-ISFps. Although, in my defense, I have only met one Fe-ISFp and he was a guy I worked with but he almost always, always got on my nerves. So annoying. He was sort of like the caricature of an ESFJ (emotional tyranny lol). Very focused on having positive emotional atmospheres; I'd think things like, 'dude, I'm not your friend, I know I'm smiling a lot but I really wish you'd shut up; how is it that you talk so much and you have nothing meaningful to say?'. He was the kind of person who wanted to be liked by everyone (3 so/sx); that kind of behaviour was needy and unappealing. Also, he had a pronounced Te polr which is a lot less apparent in the Si subtype; I find Te polr very, very unattractive in men. He was lazy (oh no, I don't want to do this work, a junior should do it, oh I don't feel like it, ugh it's not that important), irresponsible and frequently messed up in areas where he shouldn't have and then goofily tried to laugh it off. Te devaluing behaviour irritates me and his show of it would make me pretty angry; I put him in his place a couple of times when he'd try to boss me around. I understand he was a little fascinated with me, like some of the Si-ISTp dudes I've known. I, in turn, feel very meh about Si-ISTps and Fe-ISFp (I want that Teeeee).

In conclusion, I guess I'd pick the semidual of the irrational subtype; which is kinda funny because if I had to date my kindred, I'd definitely go Ne-ENTp instead of Ti-ENTp.

(how sad is it that I spent like an hour writing this and my opinions come off articulate? sighs)


----------



## FlaviaGemina (May 3, 2012)

Semi-dual.
I even like some semi-duals better than most duals. If I don't actively like them, I still have a vaguely positive attitude towards them although they're not important to me. Most duals annoy me at least slightly.

Actually, I like most intertype relationships better than duality. The only ones that is worse than duality are superego and mirage. I even like conflict better than duality.
Nope, I'm not mistyped. I just don't value "ease of communication" that much, because it basically means the dual hardly ever tells me anything I don't know yet.

Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk


----------

