# Insight about Se, that made my day



## The red spirit (Sep 29, 2015)

Xcopy said:


> I don't think it's something you really get. It just happens. No idea how you get it.


I'm not sure if I ever get them


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## Azure Dreamer (May 26, 2016)

The red spirit said:


> I don't use it all or don't get it at all. There's definitely lack of it in me. Maybe I'm ambivert SFP?


Hmm I think you have some ni but might be tough for S types to be aware of. Most descriptions and accounts of ni are a unconscious process which when contrasted with se as a highly conscious process might explain why it's harder for se dom aux to notice ni when it's tert/inferior.


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## The red spirit (Sep 29, 2015)

Azure the Dreamer said:


> Hmm I think you have some ni but might be tough for S types to be aware of. Most descriptions and accounts of ni are a unconscious process which when contrasted with se as a highly conscious process might explain why it's harder for se dom aux to notice ni when it's tert/inferior.


This can make sense


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## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

Xcopy said:


> Your brother's an ESFP? Also, healthy.. Heh, I always thought I wasn't healthy.


We are all unhealthy in some way, that's what makes us human 

Accepting or recognizing the flaws is part of the line between negative and positive


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## Xcopy (Dec 10, 2016)

Azure the Dreamer said:


> Hmm I think you have some ni but might be tough for S types to be aware of. Most descriptions and accounts of ni are a unconscious process which when contrasted with se as a highly conscious process might explain why it's harder for se dom aux to notice ni when it's tert/inferior.


I can only recognize it from having a special INTJ in my life. >>


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## Azure Dreamer (May 26, 2016)

Xcopy said:


> Oh? Like what would you say you consider that a Se dom or aux would not consider?


Well se tend to see things as they are and see things I wouldn't consider (they see X>Y while I tend to be X>Y>Z). The ones I know tend to be more immediate future based on things as they are. I tend to view things as they could be in mid to further out in future.

Best example I was worried about accepting a job because there is a strong chance I'd be moving away in less than a year and worried about accepting it. Se dom I know pointed out to me I should still accept it and moving later shouldn't matter to my worries for afterwards if/when I move.

Best way to put it is this saying. (Paraphrasing)
The long term decisions are just a series of short term decisions.

Idk this feels like me rambling so I hope it makes sense.


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## 100_the_cat (Oct 1, 2016)

My ESTP experience:

-Crack addict
-Manipulated her blood sugar to scam the ER into giving her an opioid drip (did this several weeks in a row)
-Stole a little girl's handheld video game left unattended in a convenience store, played it until the battery died, sold it on the street
-Used prostitutes
-Made $40,000 off of a return fraud scheme 
-Killed 3 people 
-Punched a neighbor in the face
-Smoked crack in the living room of a zero-tolerance housing program, kept pipe stashed under couch 
-Got bashed in the head with a brick, was in a coma, illiterate afterwards
-No location was off limits for sex. Front porch, park, McDonald's parking lot in broad daylight during lunch hour, etc. 
-Walked around one of the dirtiest, most run-down neighborhoods in town barefoot 

None of that was a problem for her!

Stuff that actually bothered her:

-She'd made a pact with Satan and felt she could never get out of it
-She was paranoid about things like burying her nail clippings and coffee grounds outside in the yard so nobody could do black magic on her or steal her soul


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## Azure Dreamer (May 26, 2016)

The red spirit said:


> This can make sense





Xcopy said:


> I can only recognize it from having a special INTJ in my life. >>


Yeah the only way I can recognize my Se is from the Se family members and friends I have.

But it also feels wierd for me when se does decide to kick in (se would be hard to recognize ni and ni gets jumpy when se does kick in)


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## Xcopy (Dec 10, 2016)

myjazz said:


> We are all unhealthy in some way, that's what makes us human
> 
> Accepting or recognizing the flaws is part of the line between negative and positive


This is very good advice and I can fully agree with it. ^^


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## The red spirit (Sep 29, 2015)

100_the_cat said:


> My ESTP experience:
> 
> -Crack addict
> -Manipulated her blood sugar to scam the ER into giving her an opioid drip (did this several weeks in a row)
> ...


Is that truly real world or GTA?


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## 100_the_cat (Oct 1, 2016)

She also said, "There's nothing wrong with having sex with your kids."

LOOOOOL

OMG

I mean, let's keep the kids safe, ok? But talk about no-holds-barred physicality...

You should probably keep an eye on your dog, too XD

I think the spirit world is the only thing that keeps these people in check


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## The red spirit (Sep 29, 2015)

100_the_cat said:


> She also said, "There's nothing wrong with having sex with your kids."
> 
> LOOOOOL
> 
> ...


Definition of insanity


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## 100_the_cat (Oct 1, 2016)

The red spirit said:


> Is that truly real world or GTA?


Real world


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## Xcopy (Dec 10, 2016)

Azure the Dreamer said:


> Yeah the only way I can recognize my Se is from the Se family members and friends I have.
> 
> But it also feels wierd for me when se does decide to kick in (se would be hard to recognize ni and ni gets jumpy when se does kick in)


I personally believe that's how it works. We can sometimes understand some functions, from seeing it in action. The INTJ I know, she gets so fully enthralled in something and forgets about eating or anything else.. and it is amazing to me. That Ni focus is ridiculous, and on *one* point. I am just not like that.



Azure the Dreamer said:


> Well se tend to see things as they are and see things I wouldn't consider (they see X>Y while I tend to be X>Y>Z). The ones I know tend to be more immediate future based on things as they are. I tend to view things as they could be in mid to further out in future.
> 
> Best example I was worried about accepting a job because there is a strong chance I'd be moving away in less than a year and worried about accepting it. Se dom I know pointed out to me I should still accept it and moving later shouldn't matter to my worries for afterwards if/when I move.
> 
> ...



Ah, I see. No, it makes more sense. Notice your Se-dom friend did not even consider the future? He was just more worried about you making money in the present, having a job and whatnot.


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## Azure Dreamer (May 26, 2016)

Xcopy said:


> I personally believe that's how it works. We can sometimes understand some functions, from seeing it in action. The INTJ I know, she gets so fully enthralled in something and forgets about eating or anything else.. and it is amazing to me. That Ni focus is ridiculous, and on *one* point. I am just not like that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah my brother is a most definitely a Se dom as well. Hehe I worry about things later and they remind me of the present and near future is just as important. 
I'm not as good as focusing on the present as I would like to be with things. But S Dom family and friends do have my best interest at heart when giving advice even if I don't like to hear it sometimes. Listening to them has helped me out a lot. 
I definitely need the reminders. 

Se do think/work about the future but the present is more important to them.

Btw off topic but great signature.


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## atamagasuita (May 15, 2016)

Xcopy said:


> Which is weird, because Ne is more about bouncing different ideas off people and playing with the possibility of different scenarios.


Because its Ni. Haha


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## Pastelle (Dec 12, 2016)

ferroequinologist said:


> Think of that TV show Junkyard Wars, where people had to take stuff from a junkyard and make something. That is very much an Se activity that provides a sense of something more than just the doing.


This is one of more prominent things that confuse me and keep me from committing to a type. Many describe Se as nothing more than responding with action and cannot discern potential from the environment. What you are describing (makeshift creations) is often associated with Ne, seeing and utilizing "possibilities". From my understanding, isn't Ne nothing more than conceptual associations with the object? What I trying to say, is the aforementioned example of creativity showcasing Ne, Se, or not of functions?


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## Xcopy (Dec 10, 2016)

Azure the Dreamer said:


> Yeah my brother is a most definitely a Se dom as well. Hehe I worry about things later and they remind me of the present and near future is just as important.
> I'm not as good as focusing on the present as I would like to be with things. But S Dom family and friends do have my best interest at heart when giving advice even if I don't like to hear it sometimes. Listening to them has helped me out a lot.
> I definitely need the reminders.
> 
> ...


Indeed, it is helpful for me, in turn, to benefit from my more Ni using associates. It really keeps me out of trouble. 


Thanks, but I cannot take credit for my signature. It is a quote from my favorite Youtuber. Roger Van Der Weide.


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## ferroequinologist (Jul 27, 2012)

Pastelle said:


> This is one of more prominent things that confuse me and keep me from committing to a type. Many describe Se as nothing more than responding with action and cannot discern potential from the environment. What you are describing (makeshift creations) is often associated with Ne, seeing and utilizing "possibilities". From my understanding, isn't Ne nothing more than conceptual associations with the object? What I trying to say, is the aforementioned example of creativity showcasing Ne, Se, or not of functions?


Think of Ne asking the question "What could I do?" While Se asks "What can I do?" One sees beyond the moment, the physical reality, and into the conceptual. the other sees the potential that is right in front of it. Taking junk, and turning it into something is Se, seeing the junk, and imagining something totally other (I'm not Ne, so I would have to guess), like maybe maybe a city of creatures made of junk, living in the junkyard, with a whole, hidden life... (lame, yes, I know) would be more Ne. Science fiction vs. fantasy. So, Se takes what's there, and makes something of it, but Ne takes what isn't there, but only suggested--concepts of their own making--and goes with that instead. Se feels more comfortable with the prior, and Ne with the latter (though both may take advantage of either, depending on circumstances, imagination, etc.)

I've used this illustration before. As a kid, I loved playing with swords. Any stick could become a sword--but I never, ever lost track of the fact that that stick was still a stick. Later, it might become something else in my play, but it was always a stick. An intuitive would see a sword, and maybe even forget it was a stick--but here's where things happen--that stick will cease to be important. All it was, was a vehicle for the mind to run with. In the mind, the stories flow, the ideas and concepts ebb and flow, and the mental play is more important than the physical play--it's all played out in the mind, vs. in the material world. For myself, I had to be hacking with the stick, but for an intuitive, it's all in the mind. Our kids, when they were young, had Legos, and they would play together with them, but that play seldom lasted too long, because our NF girls would start the stories, and after a while the stories got elaborate, and just continued going and going. Our son (SP type), would try to keep them playing with the toys, but he always lost out. He eventually also got involved with the stories, but for him, having the physical representation is always important. He still plays with Legos, though he's married. ;-)

Here's another way to think of it. Se and Si are about signifiers--things mean things. Ne is about symbols. Symbols merely are representatives or stand-ins for other meaning. One is more concrete, while the other is more abstract. Symbols don't mean what they mean--they mean something else. We aren't talking similes here, nor allegory, but metaphors--something abstract and conceptual, not concrete and real, not one-to-one, but open-ended, open to interpretation.


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## Chesire Tower (Jan 19, 2013)

The red spirit said:


> @*Chesire Tower* So, you won't read it?


Unfortunately, not is I have to incur a headache to do it. :/


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## Max (Aug 14, 2014)

ferroequinologist said:


> And now, thanks to the pestering of a certain red spirit, who wanted me to write more on Se, I shall share some more of my thoughts.
> 
> As I suggested in my previous post, Se is a direct attraction to the object, based on what the senses have taken in, and is not merely a passive acceptance of sensory data. In fact, none of the perceiving functions are passive--just observation or whatever people like to discuss... Se is much, much more than that, as are the other perceiving functions. Se, as I said, is a movement toward, and an acceptance toward the object. It directly manipulates, in real time, and interacts, in real time with the object. This is not just something like driving a car. We all do this, even Ni dominants or Ne dominants. But the truth is, when all is said and done, an Se type will do it better than the other types. To use the driving example. The Se type may seem careless and even clumsy while driving, but without others being aware, everything that is happening around them is being taken in and "evaluated", not at a rational level, but irrational. The other cars on the road, their trajectory, their speed and momentum, their size and location.... all of it. It has all been taken on board, and without thinking or any real effort, has been categorized and threat-assessed. My son likes to use the term "situational awareness." But that is the passive side, and not what Se really is. That is only the beginning. If anything should happen or be sensed to be about to happen, the Se type is going to be the quickest to respond, and the quickest to make a seemingly more rational decision. Should he speed up or slam on the brakes? Should he swerve left or right? All of that just happens without any real thought--which comes afterwards ("Oh, I quickly realized that slamming on my brakes would leave the side of the car to get the direct brunt of the impact, so I floored it, and only the trunk got hit.") But at the time, it just happened.
> 
> ...


I wanna add something onto this. If I don't get into the zone, I am like a potato. Literally. Nothing comes of anything. If I am in the zone however, everything comes together without a thought. Even watching TV shows, everything makes sense after 3 episodes. If I have problems getting into the zone, sometimes I need to force myself to, in order to complete the work on time. 

When I am motivated, it seems like I can do anything but if I'm not, I look like a zombie, but I guess that is really IS ALL OR NOTHING for me because of my sx and 8-ness. When I'm in the zone, I dominate it. I control it. I bring results. I work wonders. I let out my aggression in its rawest form. I don't think, I just do. When I'm not in the zone, I'm just a potato. I sit and observe. I withdraw sometimes. I find something else to do when I'm ready and the cycle repeats itself over and over again.

As for Se itself as a function, I find it amazing. I find it also has this amazing ability to simplify the most complex concepts down to a few words. Or even one word. I can see that people give it a bad rap for being 'simple' sometimes, but isn't it better to just have it as it is rather than some pile of abstraction that no-one will understand? 

Isn't it better to experience things for what they are, rather than have these pre-conceptions of reality that are often skewed? Isn't it better to just live sometimes rather than exist? If we're just born to die, isn't the part where we're meant to live going to be hard for you? Isn't it better to just do things and achieve something rather than think about it and have nothing? 

Sometimes being in the zone is the best place to be. Even if you aren't predominantly a Sensor, I dare you to come out and smell the grass and feel the sunlight on your skin. And hear the birds above the trees and challenge what it means to exist. 

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk


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## The red spirit (Sep 29, 2015)

VirtualInsanity said:


> I can see that people give it a bad rap for being 'simple' sometimes, but isn't it better to just have it as it is rather than some pile of abstraction that no-one will understand?


Then intuitive can blame other's intelligence lol



VirtualInsanity said:


> Isn't it better to experience things for what they are, rather than have these pre-conceptions of reality that are often skewed?


Well, maybe



VirtualInsanity said:


> Isn't it better to just live sometimes rather than exist? If we're just born to die, isn't the part where we're meant to live going to be hard for you?


Are you saying, that Ns don't live life and do nothing?



VirtualInsanity said:


> Isn't it better to just do things and achieve something rather than think about it and have nothing?


Well depends a lot on situation

Why aren't you showing your MBTI, I know, that you are Se dom.


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## Max (Aug 14, 2014)

The red spirit said:


> Then intuitive can blame other's intelligence lol


How can we define intelligence? There are many different types of intelligence; emotional, intellectual, spatial, logical etc. Neither an N type, nor S type is perfect in all areas of intelligence, so I don't think that anyone can say for certain what/who is intelligent tbh. 




> Are you saying, that Ns don't live life and do nothing?


No that's what you interpreted what I was saying as meaning lol. I'm simply inviting people to experience the moment and zone unfiltered from time to time. It's a nice experience just to be one with your surroundings from time to time. You know? In the same sense that it's nice to go inside your mind and tap into your Intuitive side from time to time. Balance is the key to a healthier self. 



> Why aren't you showing your MBTI, I know, that you are Se dom.


Why do I have to show my MBTI type? It's not like I'm gonna get shot if I don't. It's not a crime if I choose not to. You already know that I am Se-Dom. You said so yourself, and so do the majority of active users here. Do I need to state the obvious?  



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## The red spirit (Sep 29, 2015)

VirtualInsanity said:


> It's not like I'm gonna get shot if I don't.


Wait, what did you say?! *pulls out gun*


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## TheDarknessInTheSnow (May 28, 2016)

In my experience, there are definitely different types of ESFPs and maybe your classification is true


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## Pastelle (Dec 12, 2016)

This is my understanding of Se, so all fellow Se users see if this is right to you.

Se is perception. It focuses on "what is", the sounds, colors, sensations, texture of the objective environment. Everyone uses their senses but for an Se user, the focus is the present and what it contains. Se is often described as "impulsive" or "hedonistic" but I do not believe this is so (though such individuals can be). Jung says that Se wants the highest actuality. It is understandable that "Thrill Seeking can be discerned from this, but I took this as gaining the best of the present; a bit more refined. Of the two Pe functions, Se is often seen as inferior or lacking in comparison to Ne. The prominent reason for this is Ne's striving for "possibilities", often translated as a function seemingly possesses the abilities of Se and then some. As a cognitive function, Intuition does not take the "Is" into account, only tying associations to sensing data. So with this noted, what is Ne? Ne is often termed as noticing the "what could be", the "possibilities" if you will. As someone said a while back, the meaning of possibilities is quite vague and leads to bias. Associations is a better term for the output of intuition as "possibilities" can be attributed to all types. Possibilites for Se is taking note of what is present and taking advantage of it, making a decision from that data (Macgyver'esque). Ne "possibilities" is changing the actual perception ("what could be" in a sense of seeing multiple ways to alter one's impression of the objective world (Si)).


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## The red spirit (Sep 29, 2015)

Pastelle said:


> This is my understanding of Se, so all fellow Se users see if this is right to you.
> 
> Se is perception. It focuses on "what is", the sounds, colors, sensations, texture of the objective environment. Everyone uses their senses but for an Se user, the focus is the present and what it contains. Se is often described as "impulsive" or "hedonistic" but I do not believe this is so (though such individuals can be). Jung says that Se wants the highest actuality. It is understandable that "Thrill Seeking can be discerned from this, but I took this as gaining the best of the present; a bit more refined. Of the two Pe functions, Se is often seen as inferior or lacking in comparison to Ne. The prominent reason for this is Ne's striving for "possibilities", often translated as a function seemingly possesses the abilities of Se and then some. As a cognitive function, Intuition does not take the "Is" into account, only tying associations to sensing data. So with this noted, what is Ne? Ne is often termed as noticing the "what could be", the "possibilities" if you will. As someone said a while back, the meaning of possibilities is quite vague and leads to bias. Associations is a better term for the output of intuition as "possibilities" can be attributed to all types. Possibilites for Se is taking note of what is present and taking advantage of it, making a decision from that data (Macgyver'esque). Ne "possibilities" is changing the actual perception ("what could be" in a sense of seeing multiple ways to alter one's impression of the objective world (Si)).


You wrote it at the perfect time, just at the moment I started to wonder what Se is. Thanks a lot.


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## Ryosuke93 (Feb 29, 2012)

You might be interested in Cognitive Type theory. Very similar to your insights. It was written up by a young INTP who is currently still perfecting/developing/refining the theory. 

Proactive Concrete Perception (Se) – Cognitive Type

I don't know if he would agree about shadow functions though. But I do! I think I have Si somewhere even if I am an ESFP (unless I mistyped again. lol)

He even goes into subtypes (or more like archetypes), similar to the system you are thinking of, like "reserved" "outgoing", but he gives it very different names etc.

SeFi | Vedaer – Cognitive Type


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## The red spirit (Sep 29, 2015)

Ryosuke93 said:


> You might be interested in Cognitive Type theory. Very similar to your insights. It was written up by a young INTP who is currently still perfecting/developing/refining the theory.
> 
> Proactive Concrete Perception (Se) – Cognitive Type
> 
> ...


Interesting articles, but first link's validity is questionable


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