# S types being Catered in Society



## Roslyn (Aug 2, 2018)

VirtualInsanity said:


> I was being sarcastic, Chica.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


But I was using my whiny voice. Are you rejecting my whining?


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## Max (Aug 14, 2014)

Roslyn said:


> But I was using my whiny voice. Are you rejecting my whining?


Whining is illegal in the real world  


The S world. 


Adapt or get eaten  


I am hungry rn 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Coburn (Sep 3, 2010)

Thou shall not whinest, or else thy privilege will be reduced and thy harvest doubly taxed for the King ESTJ and Queen ESFJ themselves.

By order of the King.


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## Persona Maiden (May 14, 2018)

I think everyone is kind of getting too up in arms about this. While I myself have not felt what the OP has, I do not think their views of what they experienced growing up should be dismissed.

I do believe both N and S can thrive in the world, and that in general, no one is out to get any type/function (but specific people in an individual's life might be).

But keep in mind the OP said they grew up around S types (their Mother in particular) who did try to suppress their N.

So even if you do disagree, just as one person voiced his experience as being an ISFJ male growing up, look at this from the OP's point of view. 

I'll post the following scenario based of what I think the OP might be coming from, they can feel free to correct me if I get anything wrong with what I assume in the following, it's just meant to being a hypothetical.

If you grew up with someone closer to you in life, you knew they were a specific type, and they did everything in their power to suppress you. How would you feel people in the world of a similar type/function would be?

Of course not every S is against N's or vice versa, and I think that there's plenty of chance for all types/functions to flourish, but if you grew up in that environment, I can imagine how that would make one feel.
I don't know the OP's age, or how long they've been out in the world, or if their still at home. But in general, this is probably something that would be learned with experience out in the world with different types. But keep in mind it can potentially be damaging to any type, not just N, to have their natural way of thinking dismissed/suppressed/ridiculed.

There may have been/be a lot of intuitive bias around, but this person is newer here it looks, may not of seen it (I didn't even know it for the longest time till it was pointed out to me. So we shouldn't just assume everyone is trying to be rude, or biased, OP seemed they genuinely were just trying to get opinions on the world, because of what they experienced at home. I think we should be trying to explain rather then be judgmental.


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## Bastard (Feb 4, 2018)

Yeah. It's just so hard being so deep and so sensitive when everyone else is just so shallow. They're like cardboard cutouts. Not real people.


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## Roslyn (Aug 2, 2018)

Persona Maiden said:


> I think everyone is kind of getting too up in arms about this. While I myself have not felt what the OP has, I do not think their views of what they experienced growing up should be dismissed.
> 
> I do believe both N and S can thrive in the world, and that in general, no one is out to get any type/function (but specific people in an individual's life might be).
> 
> ...


I grew up with two intuitives for parents. I'm well aware of where OP is coming from. I felt all of those things, but I'm not declaring my sacred specialness over it. My parents did not accept that I was very active. One of my earliest favorite memories was ballet. It was the first time I could remember wanting to do something that wasn't being declared 'bad'. They always had educational toys and long, grueling explanations and I saw their friends kids with similar values whose kids just seemed to fall into line. I'm an only child. I was supposed to be interested in more intellectual pursuits. I pushed against piano and violin and a magnet school with a science program. I didn't want to do the International Baccaleureate programme etc... At every turn, I got this shit jammed down my throat and made to feel very stupid. I wanted to dance. My parents wanted to me to be a doctor or a lawyer or a scientist. I've had to fight to be accepted as a dancer and get them to not just accept it but be proud of me. 

It's not that I don't get it. It's that in my experience, most of society is slanted toward educational attainment, intellectual pursuits and values careers with much higher incomes than my dancing will ever achieve. I call bullshit on society catering to me and other S types. That hasn't been my experience at all. Being myself was never acceptable. I had to accept myself first and decide other people would just have to deal with it.


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## Blue Ribbon (Sep 4, 2016)

I'm incredibly S, and grew up with an S mother (ISTJ/ESTJ) and I had it really really bad. So, no, it has nothing to do with the MBTI types of your parents. Most kids have issues with their parents from my experience. My mother was cold, distant, never showed love, gave me the silent treatment for months. Can you imagine how hard it was, living with a mother who wouldn't talk to you for days, and you were only four years old. I wasn't allowed to leave the house, I didn't have any friends because my mom hated all of them. I used to wish my parents got a divorce so I could go live with my INTP dad, because that was better.


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## Roslyn (Aug 2, 2018)

Coburn said:


> Thou shall not whinest, or else thy privilege will be reduced and thy harvest doubly taxed for the King ESTJ and Queen ESFJ themselves.
> 
> By order of the King.


Sweet Jesus, where are you? Save me from the Evil One's! They who reject whining and who society cater's too! 










He's alive!


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## Persona Maiden (May 14, 2018)

Roslyn said:


> I grew up with two intuitives for parents. I'm well aware of where OP is coming from. I felt all of those things, but I'm not declaring my sacred specialness over it. My parents did not accept that I was very active. One of my earliest favorite memories was ballet. It was the first time I could remember wanting to do something that wasn't being declared 'bad'. They always had educational toys and long, grueling explanations and I saw their friends kids with similar values whose kids just seemed to fall into line. I'm an only child. I was supposed to be interested in more intellectual pursuits. I pushed against piano and violin and a magnet school with a science program. I didn't want to do the International Baccaleureate programme etc... At every turn, I got this shit jammed down my throat and made to feel very stupid. I wanted to dance. My parents wanted to me to be a doctor or a lawyer or a scientist. I've had to fight to be accepted as a dancer and get them to not just accept it but be proud of me.
> 
> It's not that I don't get it. It's that in my experience, most of society is slanted toward educational attainment, intellectual pursuits and values careers with much higher incomes than my dancing will ever achieve. I call bullshit on society catering to me and other S types. That hasn't been my experience at all. Being myself was never acceptable. I had to accept myself first and decide other people would just have to deal with it.


I don't disagree with you, I'm just saying the OP might not be aware of this yet.


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## Drecon (Jun 20, 2016)

This is one of the big secrets of growing up. Everyone has it tough and everyone feels left out and like nobody really understands them. It's just that at that age we're not capable of seeing the way other people are feeling left out. We only see the way that they thrive and we see the mask that they put on. 

This doesn't mean the feeling you have is illegitimate, it just means that the conclusion might not be justified. Sensors could just as well feel like society isn't for them. Think of the ESTP getting sent out of class every day because they can't sit still for too long or the ISFJ feeling like they don't fit into their group of friends because they're just not into sports as much as the others. Everyone has these types of struggles. Part of growing up is starting to see other people are struggling.


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## Roslyn (Aug 2, 2018)

Drecon said:


> This is one of the big secrets of growing up. Everyone has it tough and everyone feels left out and like nobody really understands them. It's just that at that age we're not capable of seeing the way other people are feeling left out. We only see the way that they thrive and we see the mask that they put on.
> 
> This doesn't mean the feeling you have is illegitimate, it just means that the conclusion might not be justified. Sensors could just as well feel like society isn't for them. Think of the ESTP getting sent out of class every day because they can't sit still for too long or the ISFJ feeling like they don't fit into their group of friends because they're just not into sports as much as the others. Everyone has these types of struggles. Part of growing up is starting to see other people are struggling.


Isn't this something you kinda realize as a kid as you talk to your friends though? I had my hardships that made me feel alone and excluded and even punished. My friends had their own hardships that made them feel the same way. At some point, when you're connecting with people growing up somewhere in middle school, this is just something people start to realize. Just how young could the OP possibly be?


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## Max (Aug 14, 2014)

Drecon said:


> Sensors could just as well feel like society isn't for them. Think of the ESTP getting sent out of class every day because they can't sit still for too long or the ISFJ feeling like they don't fit into their group of friends because they're just not into sports as much as the others.


Stereotypes much? I think that has as much to do with the person and how the function as much as it (or maybe more) than it has to do with them being an N or S type. Some people find it tough regardless of type. It’s just how they are made to function within the confinements of their given society. Biological and environmental factors are important too and typology doesn’t always take those into account. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## flamesabers (Nov 20, 2012)

SnowyVulpez228 said:


> As an INFJ, I have always felt left out or put down because I don't think just like everyone else I know.


Maybe you're hanging around the wrong people? Or perhaps you're unknowingly acting in a way that is off-putting to others? 

Are there some instances you would be willing to share? It might help to identify whether it's a sensing vs. intuitive conflict or whether something else might be the culprit. 



SnowyVulpez228 said:


> So do you guys agree? Have any other thoughts regarding this? Experiences of your own (I am sure you have, cause I definitely have).


I think everyone is in a minority in one area or another. Even though I belong to the sensing group, I'm also a introvert and atheist, which are both minority groups. Living in a world full of extroverts and theists, I don't feel alienated. Rather, I just chalk it up to different preferences.


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## contradictionary (Apr 1, 2018)

Panda Eyes said:


> Tbh, I get pretty tired of the "woe is me, I'm an Intuitive" attitude.
> 
> Yeah, the world does seem to prefer Sensors in some ways - but I've never heard/experienced any consistent or convincing evidence that this was significantly detrimental to anyone. Blaming your unfortunate experiences on being an Intuitive in a "Sensor-driven society" seems like a huge cop-out to me. _Nobody_ fits perfectly into our current society. There's a lot of aspects of our society that are bad for the basic human condition - regardless of type. And, surprise, Sensors can and do struggle just as much as Intuitives.
> 
> The world isn't out to "get" Intuitives. We aren't shunned, persecuted, or excluded on stupid details. If you know how to utilize your strengths, _just like anyone else,_ you're going to flourish. Confidence and knowing yourself has always been key; not whether you prefer "ideas" or "real-life."


To woe or not to woe?

Considering that for example, statistics of dextrous vs sinistra vs ambidextrous vs 'conformitydextrous' are around same range as difference in S vs N, then the 'woe' is real. As real as lefthanded people difficulties in living this righthanded world.

Even the OP had stress the word 'cater'.

_sent from my mobile_


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## SilentScream (Mar 31, 2011)

Yesterday they upgraded my S status within the S high society and now I get a higher tier of S special privileges. They just sent me my platinum S card. It allows me a free pass in society where I don't have to do any work or out any effort towards being understood and accepted. I just flash my S card and my beautiful S charm and everyone falls to the floor and starts worshipping the ground I walk on. They throw free things at me. I bless their children. I am treated like a gawd amongst men. 

I hereby acknowledge my S privipege and regret it because I understand the streuggles of the oppressed N minority. Together we can fight the systems of N oppression. 

#iamwiththosewhopersist

#Nlivesmatter


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## Drecon (Jun 20, 2016)

Roslyn said:


> Isn't this something you kinda realize as a kid as you talk to your friends though? I had my hardships that made me feel alone and excluded and even punished. My friends had their own hardships that made them feel the same way. At some point, when you're connecting with people growing up somewhere in middle school, this is just something people start to realize. Just how young could the OP possibly be?


Everyone has a different rate of growing up. Your experiences might not reflect those of everyone around you. I've known people that only start realizing this around 19. Sometimes people have to work through their own stuff first, while others are actually helped by looking around towards others.


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## Drecon (Jun 20, 2016)

VirtualInsanity said:


> Stereotypes much? I think that has as much to do with the person and how the function as much as it (or maybe more) than it has to do with them being an N or S type. Some people find it tough regardless of type. It’s just how they are made to function within the confinements of their given society. Biological and environmental factors are important too and typology doesn’t always take those into account.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The examples weren't meant to describe everyone of that type but they are issues that are more common for certain types. It's meant to be in the same vein as "Ns aren't being given the same chances in society". 

And I do fully agree that we're all just humans having human problems and not everything we experience is related to type. While some types are overrepresented with certain problems, that's just a statistic and doesn't mean that others can't also have the same problems and doesn't mean everyone with that type has the same problems.


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## Stevester (Feb 28, 2016)

Drecon said:


> Think of the ESTP getting sent out of class every day because they can't sit still for too long or the ISFJ feeling like they don't fit into their group of friends because they're just not into sports as much as the others. .


THIS!

Literally every ESTP I've ever met said they didn't get the point of school from the first day they set foot there and we're looking for a way out of there by High School. In a society that says school is everything when you grow up, they definitely feel like misunderstood weirdos who spent their younger years hearing from everyone how they are f*uckups. This is definitely not a problem for your average INxx though who easily thrive in school most of the time.


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## contradictionary (Apr 1, 2018)

Stevester said:


> THIS!
> 
> Literally every ESTP I've ever met said they didn't get the point of school from the first day they set foot there and we're looking for a way out of there by High School. In a society that says school is everything when you grow up, they definitely feel like misunderstood weirdos who spent their younger years hearing from everyone how they are f*uckups. This is definitely not a problem for your average INxx though who easily thrive in school most of the time.


Aren't they social people? Isfj is introvert feeler but very sociable. Estp is thinker but they need "crowd".


If sociable people can't even feeling 'fit' then what would you expect from the 'asocial'?

_sent from my mobile_


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## Strelnikov (Jan 19, 2018)

Ok, let's all chill! S-types and N-types... everyone chill! 

Now, there are a lot of reasons for which people might feel misunderstood. Some have to do with actions, some with words and some with feelings. Any person of any type can be misunderstood... Throw an ISTJ in a group of ENFPs and see how the ISTJ feels after spending a lot of time with them. Throw an INTJ in a group of ESFJs and see how the INTJ feels.

Now, it is true that S-types outnumber N-types and that's why N-types are more likely to feel misunderstood, but it's not a matter of persecution by S-types, but a consequence of different communication styles and different inclinations. It's not a matter of S-types are bad or N-types are misunderstood geniuses, but we simply think differently. For example, I was having a discussion with an ESTP and I was telling her that pretty much I think in a combination of something similar to If-Then-Else flow diagrams: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conditional_(computer_programming) , images and words and she didn't really get how that works. It's not a question of intelligence, but of simple biological wiring of the brain which is different.

Also, I think it would be unreasonable to expect S-types to adapt to N-types requirements. It's unreasonable to ask anyone to sacrifice their own natural preference in favour of another's preference. Why don't N-types adapt to S-types' preferences instead? Why should the majority adapt to the needs of the minority? Every type should do its own thing, keep in mind the other's natural preferences without sacrificing its own style.


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## Highway Nights (Nov 26, 2014)

I'm not entirely sure I understand this whole
Sensors=normal people, intuitives=weirdos and outcasts, like there aren't some really damn weird ISFPs out there. It's like everyone wants to categorize this stuff along the lines of their high school cliques. I think that's where some of the "my four letters can beat up your four letters" attitude comes from. Trying to frame all this in terms of "getting payback on my highschool bullies, what do you mean the cheerleader who made fun of my anime bodypillow was an ENFJ???"

I don't think anyone needs to piledrive on the OP for this, but I do think this represents a broader problem.


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## contradictionary (Apr 1, 2018)

Rebelgoatalliance said:


> I'm not entirely sure I understand this whole
> Sensors=normal people, intuitives=weirdos and outcasts, like there aren't some really damn weird ISFPs out there. It's like everyone wants to categorize this stuff along the lines of their high school cliques. I think that's where some of the "my four letters can beat up your four letters" attitude comes from. Trying to frame all this in terms of "getting payback on my highschool bullies, what do you mean the cheerleader who made fun of my anime bodypillow was an ENFJ???"
> 
> I don't think anyone needs to piledrive on the OP for this, but I do think this represents a broader problem.





You'll never understand things you don't endure yourself, Mr. Goatie. Don't you ever realize that whenever you look at people and always getting amused yourself because you are incapable of grasping their behaviors?

And you will ignore this reply. And start going tangential. You'll always do.



_Sent sans PC_


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## SilentScream (Mar 31, 2011)

contradictionary said:


> You'll never understand things you don't endure yourself, Mr. Goatie. Don't you ever realize that whenever you look at people and always getting amused yourself because you are incapable of grasping their behaviors?
> 
> And you will ignore this reply. And start going tangential. You'll always do.


What exactly do you think you know about his personal life to make a comment like that?

I'm curious to see if you can ignore me now considering that you're asking RGA to not ignore you h:


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## Highway Nights (Nov 26, 2014)

contradictionary said:


> You'll never understand things you don't endure yourself, Mr. Goatie. Don't you ever realize that whenever you look at people and always getting amused yourself because you are incapable of grasping their behaviors?
> 
> And you will ignore this reply. And start going tangential. You'll always do.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry if you think I make fun of you (I think that's what you're trying to say). I've always thought of it more as "giving your posts the responses they deserve," but I've never set out to hurt your feelings.

Maybe a visit here will help!










Jawz said:


> What exactly do you think you know about his personal life to make a comment like that?
> 
> I'm curious to see if you can ignore me now considering that you're asking RGA to not ignore you h:


I think he's flirting with me. He's going to need to decide which of us he likes better, because I don't want to be a homewrecker for y'all.


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## SilentScream (Mar 31, 2011)

Rebelgoatalliance said:


> I think he's flirting with me. He's going to need to decide which of us he likes better, because I don't want to be a homewrecker for y'all.


Dude's got a thing for us ESTP's, so maybe we can take turns :thinking:


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## contradictionary (Apr 1, 2018)

Rebelgoatalliance said:


> I'm sorry if you think I make fun of you (I think that's what you're trying to say). I've always thought of it more as "giving your posts the responses they deserve," but I've never set out to hurt your feelings.
> 
> Maybe a visit here will help!


Q.E.D. Your defense mechanism bring the tangents.

Rofflofl.

P.s: nothing can hurt me

_Sent sans PC_


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## SilentScream (Mar 31, 2011)

contradictionary said:


> Q.E.D.


Completely wrong. This shows that you haven't grasped the concept of QED. 

How it would apply to what you attempted with RGA was if he had indeed misunderstood your behaviour as that was one of your qualifiers. This is what you stated:



> Don't you ever realize that whenever *you look at people and always getting amused yourself because you are incapable of grasping their behaviors?*


, but he didn't fail to grasp your very simplified attempt as your intent was to provoke a response from him with your subsequent response already determined irrespective of what he would have said to you. 

His understanding of your intent and motive to troll him suggests that he knew exactly what you were doing therefore your accusation of him not understanding people's behaviors is wrong, therefore you using QED as a response to this interaction is completely wrong.


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## Highway Nights (Nov 26, 2014)

contradictionary said:


> Q.E.D. Your defense mechanism bring the tangents.
> 
> Rofflofl.
> 
> ...


I'm getting the impression that you don't like that very much. It wasn't my "anime body-pillow" comment, was it?

You know, I was considering making you best-man at my wedding, but I guess i'll have to revoke that privilege.


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## contradictionary (Apr 1, 2018)

Rebelgoatalliance said:


> I'm getting the impression that you don't like that very much. It wasn't my "anime body-pillow" comment, was it?
> 
> You know, I was considering making you best-man at my wedding, but I guess i'll have to revoke that privilege.


Allow me to reply you...
With your own words...


Rebelgoatalliance said:


> I've always thought of it more as "giving your posts the responses they deserve," but I've never set out to hurt your feelings.


Ouch...



_Sent sans PC_


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## Highway Nights (Nov 26, 2014)

contradictionary said:


> Allow me to reply you...
> With your own words...
> 
> 
> ...


If you say something stupid, I'm going to reply with something stupid. I never realized you took it so personally. You gave me some vaguely comprehensible gobbledygook, I responded with my own gobbledygook. Is there something about that you think is unfair? 

I'm very curious what you think you're trying to do here. Are you trying to make a point, or was I right before about this being your way of flirting with me? If so, consider this my way of playing hard to get.

I don't think we should fill too many pages with our banter, so if you have a contribution to this thread, I think you should make it. Do you feel society is catered to S types?


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## Mammon (Jul 12, 2012)

Jawz said:


> A lot of Ti things are mixed up with Ne or Ni things. This is definitely an issue within MBTI circles and it's because people simply associated some forms of intelligence with N instead of developed T.
> 
> ----
> 
> ...


This is interesting. Te looking for objective outer information and Ti immediately going on a personal investigation lol Ti does seem to see the world, and reality itself even as a huge ass puzzle that needs solving lol


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## Figure (Jun 22, 2011)

*Public Warning:
Trolling, and personal attacks are against forum rules. Any further posts that can be interpreted as either will be reviewed by moderation. Please continue the discussion, but stay on topic. 
*


> 1. Do Not Make Personal Attacks
> Posts that serve no purpose other than to flame and attack other users annihilate the quality of discussion. You may critique or disdain argument and opinion posted by users, but you may not extend that method to maligning the users themselves. Do not harass or bully other members, which includes the following:
> - "type-bullying," which we define as the persistent and unsolicited public questioning of another member's type when they have not expressed such an interest.
> - purposefully misgendering other members from the identification they have chosen on their profile.
> ...


*


*


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## Elwinz (Jan 30, 2018)

Duo said:


> Here's a table of the breakdown of the population by MBTI type. Intuitives make up only ~25% of the population so it's no surprise that society revolves around the vast majority of the population who are sensors.
> 
> https://www.careerplanner.com/MB2/TypeInPopulation.cfm


NFPs more common than STP seems horribly off. ENFP almost double of ESTP? Doubt.
It still gets your point that S are majority, but this stats are dodgy.


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## Reila (Jan 17, 2017)

I think the stats are dodgy, too. I would take stats such as those more seriously if mistyping wasn't so common, if there were extremely reliable, almost fail proof typing methods and if they performed such methods in at least most countries in the world. 

At any rate, I do believe still that sensors are the majority.


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## ponpiri (Apr 30, 2017)

OP seems like a sweet person that didn't know he'd trigger so many people with this post. Y'all really ganged up on him.


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## SilentScream (Mar 31, 2011)

ponpiri said:


> OP seems like a sweet person that didn't know he'd trigger so many people with this post. Y'all really ganged up on him.


Where was the ganging up on the OP? 

Sure there was a lot of sarcasm in response to the hypothesis but people in here come to the forum with a host of life experiences. It's pretty clear that both Sensors and intuitives have different lives when everyone can go through life without feeling catered to by society. 

This understanding should have been common sense.


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## incision (May 23, 2010)

Elwinz said:


> NFPs more common than STP seems horribly off. ENFP almost double of ESTP? Doubt.
> It still gets your point that S are majority, but this stats are dodgy.


Did you read the fine print? The data was pulled from the MBTI manual published by CPP which means that the statistics were pulled from 70+ years of official MBTI assessments. CPP is the official provider of the MBTI assessment.


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## Wisteria (Apr 2, 2015)

It's the criteria that MBTI created for this dichotomy that resulted in the higher ratio of Sensing types, particularity SJ types I believe. If the criteria wasn't so biased in it's categorising, the S:N ratio will actually be much more even. Because think about it, people are so varied in personality. Think about all the people you met and ask yourself if you honestly think that most of them are sensing types. I doubt there is actually a few very common types and a couple "extremely rare" ones. The test makes it too easy to type as a Sensor basically, or attributes to many characteristics to Sensing. Might be one of the first to say this, but intuitive people aren't actually that rare.

Intuitives aren't the people are different and don't fit in society or a certain group. Intuitives aren't special artistic souls that don't like the mundanes of everyday things. That doesn't make you an N, but people seem to think it does because of all the "always in your head" type stereotypes or because they're someone who doesn't like everyday conventionality. 

In this community the people who get called sensors are probably just a normal person or maybe someone who you perceive as boring, and therefore must be a Sensor, when in fact they are an intuitive.


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## Wisteria (Apr 2, 2015)

Rebelgoatalliance said:


> I'm not entirely sure I understand this whole
> Sensors=normal people, intuitives=weirdos and outcasts, like there aren't some really damn weird ISFPs out there. It's like everyone wants to categorize this stuff along the lines of their high school cliques. I think that's where some of the "my four letters can beat up your four letters" attitude comes from. Trying to frame all this in terms of "getting payback on my highschool bullies, what do you mean the cheerleader who made fun of my anime bodypillow was an ENFJ???"
> 
> I don't think anyone needs to piledrive on the OP for this, but I do think this represents a broader problem.


Yes ^ This is exactly what i was trying to say!


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## Roslyn (Aug 2, 2018)

Duo said:


> Did you read the fine print? The data was pulled from the MBTI manual published by CPP which means that the statistics were pulled from 70+ years of official MBTI assessments. CPP is the official provider of the MBTI assessment.


Assuming it's right. Still shows that with how much Se-dom/aux are outnumbered by some N groups, we're not catered to by society. It's not a clearly N/S divide.


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## SilentScream (Mar 31, 2011)

Roslyn said:


> Assuming it's right. Still shows that with how much Se-dom/aux are outnumbered by some N groups, we're not catered to by society. It's not a clearly N/S divide.


I finally decided to look up the stats and the only N's in there are Ni and Ne-doms. That's it. People should stop assuming that their auxiliary function is the one that determines whether they're a part of the N group .. It's inaccurate to believe so. My aux function is not what determines my type - my dominant function does. 

Not assuming that a number of ENFP's are mistyped ESFPs and ENTP's are mistyped ESTP's, even then apparently pure Senors (Se and Si) make up 38% of the population and Ni and Ne make up 15% of the population. This means that about 62% of the population is not Sensing. 

Here's the _actual_ population distribution according to Jung's functions (_*assuming perfect correlation between Jung's dominant functinos and Meyer's Type Code_):

Si = 25.4%
Fe = 15.8%
Fi = 13.2%
Se = 12.8%
Ne = 11.3%
Te = 10.5%
Ti = 8.7%
Ni = 3.6%

According to this, the most common Jungian type is introverted sensing and the second most common type is extroverted feeling. Which type in there is actually dominant enough to make life as a whole miserable for an intuitive type? I just don't see it. Si-doms are not conventionally seen as a type that's dominant. Fe types can be kind of controlling (but this is from an Se-types perspective), but also empathic so I don't see why they would create a society that caters to S-types?

Te types are also dominant, but then I fail to see how Te types create a society that benefits sensors .. and how much of society can they really control when they only make up less than 9% of the population. 

I don't think that this kind of distribution allows for any one type to dominate society as is widely assumed on Typology forums and used as a means of engaging in oppression Olympics. 

At most, I'm willing to give Ni-doms the benefit of the doubt with regards to feeling isolated from the rest of society, but not any of the other types as they're all fairly evenly distributed.


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## Elwinz (Jan 30, 2018)

Duo said:


> Did you read the fine print? The data was pulled from the MBTI manual published by CPP which means that the statistics were pulled from 70+ years of official MBTI assessments. CPP is the official provider of the MBTI assessment.


Unless demographic of USA is completely different than here, I don't see it being true. Not even talking that one of major issue with official MBTI assessments is, that no one really checks validity of those.
You score on self assessment test as ENFP so you are added as another ENFP to database, but i know for example that ENFJs tends to score as ENFPs.
No wonder that MBTI is being taken as serious as astrology by scientists.


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## Stevester (Feb 28, 2016)

Jawz said:


> People should stop assuming that their auxiliary function is the one that determines whether they're a part of the N group


I've always abided by that. To me, an INTJ is much more similar to an ISTJ than many other N types such as NFPs, ENFJs and hell, NTPs sometimes. But people are always spreading this concept that Ns are an elite group whom all connect with each other.


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## SilentScream (Mar 31, 2011)

Stevester said:


> I've always abided by that. To me, an INTJ is much more similar to an ISTJ than many other N types such as NFPs, ENFJs and hell, NTPs sometimes. But people are always spreading this concept that Ns are an elite group whom all connect with each other.


It's interesting that assuming that minorities have it bad, why people would willingly label themselves as one if they weren't looking to derive some sort of social currency from it. 

You see it practically everywhere now. It makes me wonder just how bad is it really to be a minority if one proclaims to be one so proudly. It's almost like it awards them some sort of benefit to claim that they're underprivileged in some way.


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## Forest Nymph (Aug 25, 2018)

Society strongly caters to Je types in the norm. That means Te or Fe (v. Ti or Fi) rather than S or N. If you don't conform to the Fe of your hometown, then you're a rebel or a loner or even suspected of being "troubled" or a "criminal" depending on where you grew up. Te also has this harping "work ethic" that makes a lot of Merkins feel guilty for sitting still and daring to have an original thought rather than efficiently meeting some corporation's quotas instead. 

I went back to school as an older student and found myself in a major where assuredly there were a ton of NFs. What I found is that I still actually had more dramatically different values than some of them did, because the whole experience of simply being older and having had the time and confidence to form my own strong value set as well as being an Fi dom meant I wasn't cowed by professors telling me to be "tolerant" of meat eaters when I'm in environmental science and animal agriculture is one of the principle drivers of climate change.

In fact it occured to me that as a Pe type I probably felt pressured as a younger person to take in as much information and values as possible to weigh them out later, and there's a lot of this in modern society, this whole idea that "tolerance" is an end unto itself, and this can not only affect Fe types who just want to get along, but Pe types (both Se and Ne) who want to take in as much information as they can and be open minded before making final judgments with Fi or Ti.

Still, I was ultimately able to find places that were more "me" by searching for them. I was much happier in Los Angeles than I was in a small town in the American South, because there was all of this beautiful architecture and vast history and cultural diversity, as well as opportunities to live out my values amongst others who shared those values rather than criticizing me for them. It was frankly kick ass to live around a bunch of vegans and hipsters and establishments literally frozen in the 1930s or 1940s in a cool cultural way rather than an oppressive social way. Still, L.A. is also full of greedy capitalists, NIMBY's, huge freeways, and a shocking dichotomy between the rich and the poor. Overall though I count it as one of the best times in my life. I loved living there even more than living in Las Vegas, a place you couldn't pay me to live in again (I hate the heat and the lack of water and the casinos, blech). 

I ended up moving somewhere that I thought even more embodied my values, a smaller town in NorCal where there are a lot of hippies. It's true I've met other people who share my values here, but it seems impossible to escape the fact that the majority of people living in the U.S. are capitalists asleep at the wheel, mindlessly eating red meat and binging on the newest television show. Do I love art? Hell yes, I love film and music, but for me it's a conscious choice, and I feel there's this inescapable problem in modern society of people who are distracted to death. For some of them the only reason they're "liberal" or "hippies" is because they grew up surrounded by it, unlike me who had to go through a series of hellish life experiences and deep thought to become who I am.


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## incision (May 23, 2010)

Roslyn said:


> Assuming it's right. Still shows that with how much Se-dom/aux are outnumbered by some N groups, we're not catered to by society. It's not a clearly N/S divide.


Dichotomies (MBTI) and cognitive functions are distinct theories with shared Jungian roots and some overlap. You can't really mix the two in that manner, as an argument against.



Elwinz said:


> Unless demographic of USA is completely different than here, I don't see it being true.


These statistics are premised on the U.S. population but your anecdotal observations are far less relevant than 70 years of statistics, that span millions of people.



> Not even talking that one of major issue with official MBTI assessments is, that no one really checks validity of those. You score on self assessment test as ENFP so you are added as another ENFP to database, but i know for example that ENFJs tends to score as ENFPs.


These are officially assessed test results, not the online varieties.



> No wonder that MBTI is being taken as serious as astrology by scientists.


You can argue that MBTI isn't scientific theory which I agree with but you can't use this to argue against the initial premise since the initial premise is the application of MBTI dichotomy theory.


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## Stevester (Feb 28, 2016)

Forest Nymph said:


> Society strongly caters to Je types in the norm.


Agree.

Let's face it, the foundation for a stable life is usually work. And the VAST majority of jobs seem to cater strongly to J types. Hell, I often wonder how P types navigate the working world sometimes. My P friends are competent and reliable at their jobs but they also hate it and always looking for opportunities to ditch them. That must suck always feeling like this every other day. Meanwhile J types seem to have no problem thriving on the same responsibilities again and again. That's why when I see people claiming poor Intuitives struggling to fit in to society, I always imagine NJs being like _''Uh......no I'm doing just fine. But thanks for your concern.''_


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## Wisteria (Apr 2, 2015)

Why is Je => Extroverted Judging => Fe/Te ?

Why is Feeling/Thinking called the "Judging" functions? I have never seen Jung use the term in psychological types.


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## Forest Nymph (Aug 25, 2018)

Stevester said:


> Agree.
> 
> Let's face it, the foundation for a stable life is usually work. And the VAST majority of jobs seem to cater strongly to J types. Hell, I often wonder how P types navigate the working world sometimes. My P friends are competent and reliable at their jobs but they also hate it and always looking for opportunities to ditch them. That must suck always feeling like this every other day. Meanwhile J types seem to have no problem thriving on the same responsibilities again and again. That's why when I see people claiming poor Intuitives struggling to fit in to society, I always imagine NJs being like _''Uh......no I'm doing just fine. But thanks for your concern.''_


Actually it wasn't always like this. In the Middle Ages, people worked maybe 15-20 hours a week, 3-4 hours a day. The aristocracy never worked, and in Europe artists are long known for being supported by "patrons" so they don't have to waste their talents grinding away as a maid or cook so they can survive. The world hasn't always been a capitalist hellhole, though I know some NTJs like to pretend that this is "the way of nature" or something else they obviously don't understand at all.

TJs thrive in a TJ culture. Who would have thought. 

Meanwhile, people do have other talents. Ps actually make better entrepreneurs. I was self-employed for a while and it suited me very well, I'm actually quite good at running my own show on my own terms. I'm also good at doing short-term creative projects for other people by contract.


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## Forest Nymph (Aug 25, 2018)

Wisteria said:


> Why is Je => Extroverted Judging => Fe/Te ?
> 
> Why is Feeling/Thinking called the "Judging" functions? I have never seen Jung use the term in psychological types.


Cause that's how we roll around here in MBTI land. If you look at the stats someone up there posted, the majority of people are far and away Si doms...that means they all judge with Fe or Te. So over 25% of the population alone automatically is Je though Si dominant. Then another 15% is Fe dominant. So we're already at 40% Je. 

Fortunately Fi types outnumber Te doms though or we'd all just be dead already. Someone's got to throw themselves in front of the chainsaw in the rainforest.


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## Forest Nymph (Aug 25, 2018)

Jawz said:


> It's interesting that assuming that minorities have it bad, why people would willingly label themselves as one if they weren't looking to derive some sort of social currency from it.
> 
> You see it practically everywhere now. It makes me wonder just how bad is it really to be a minority if one proclaims to be one so proudly. It's almost like it awards them some sort of benefit to claim that they're underprivileged in some way.


Because not everyone thinks of things in terms of "social currency." That's an obtuse assumption as to why people would claim minority status. Who wants to be like everyone else when the majority of people in your country are utterly repulsive?


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## SilentScream (Mar 31, 2011)

Forest Nymph said:


> Because not everyone thinks of things in terms of "social currency." That's an obtuse assumption as to why people would claim minority status. Who wants to be like everyone else when the majority of people in your country are utterly repulsive?


Denial doesn't change reality. 

"Majority are repulsive". The only thing repulsive here is your view of the majority. :laughing:





Forest Nymph said:


> .
> 
> Fortunately Fi types outnumber Te doms though or we'd all just be dead already. Someone's got to throw themselves in front of the chainsaw in the rainforest.



:laughing: 

Some of the things that are said on this site unironically.


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## Forest Nymph (Aug 25, 2018)

Jawz said:


> Denial doesn't change reality.
> 
> "Majority are repulsive". The only thing repulsive here is your view of the majority. :laughing:



No, the majority is repulsive. It's repulsive to exploit the earth and other cultures of people and the poor mindlessly in the name of "convenience" or "habit." Americans think they're owed lots of things that they aren't, because their entire life commercials have told them that they're worth it or some shit. It's utterly repulsive to keep repeating behaviors you know are wrong or exploitative - like when people keep eating factory farmed meat knowing what happens at factory farms, when they keep driving their cars with no conscience as to reducing the amount they drive (or fly), they give their children toys and pills instead of spending time with them.

Mindless consumerism is the bottom of humanity. There may be people who are poorer, people who are less comfortable, or less free, but at least they have the integrity of not being mindless fucking bourgeoisie pigs.


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## SilentScream (Mar 31, 2011)

Forest Nymph said:


> No, the majority is repulsive. It's repulsive to exploit the earth and other cultures of people and the poor mindlessly in the name of "convenience" or "habit." Americans think they're owed lots of things that they aren't, because their entire life commercials have told them that they're worth it or some shit. It's utterly repulsive to keep repeating behaviors you know are wrong or exploitative - like when people keep eating factory farmed meat knowing what happens at factory farms, when they keep driving their cars with no conscience as to reducing the amount they drive (or fly), they give their children toys and pills instead of spending time with them.
> 
> Mindless consumerism is the bottom of humanity. There may be people who are poorer, people who are less comfortable, or less free, but at least they have the integrity of not being mindless fucking bourgeoisie pigs.


Considering that the majority in every country is either middle class or poor, you're being incredibly short sighted in adopting the world view you have. 

In classist societies, the wealthy minority benefits from the labor of the majority. The majority do not hold the power nor control America. Which has been consistently called an Oligarchy by think tanks, including sociologists. 

You have no idea what you're talking about but I know that you just like to rant. Even if your rants aren't very well thought through. This "repulsive majority" does not exist. It's a figment of your imagination. 

Carry on.


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## Forest Nymph (Aug 25, 2018)

Jawz said:


> Considering that the majority in every country is either middle class or poor, you're being incredibly short sighted in adopting the world view you have.
> 
> In classist societies, the wealthy minority benefits from the labor of the majority. The majority do not hold the power nor control America. Which has been consistently called an Oligarchy by think tanks, including sociologists.
> 
> ...


The majority in this country still. uphold. capitalism. I know exactly what I am talking about. The middle class are the worst of all they act like they're victims when I've done more to change my life with less money. I do not care about the middle class (that is what "bourgeoisie" means, genius) because they are the biggest casual consumers of McDonald's, bottled water, Amazon.com, and act like it's some sort of plight to have to eat meat less than 3 times a day. 

The majority in the U.S. are mindless and they consume. Even the poor spend their days debating on which shade of hair dye to purchase at Wal Mart.

Yes, with the exception of the absolutely destitute abject poor (in the inner cities or abandoned coal mines of the Appalachias) I'm expecting Americans to turn off their televisions, their radios and just think for a goddamn second. I've gone months at a time without television, an entire summer without access to Internet, I don't surround myself with noise and "busyness" - that's the only way to get free.

I will carry on. And people like you will keep making excuses of why you can't be a better human being.


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## SilentScream (Mar 31, 2011)

Forest Nymph said:


> The majority in this country still. uphold. capitalism. I know exactly what I am talking about. The middle class are the worst of all they act like they're victims when I've done more to change my life with less money. I do not care about the middle class (that is what "bourgeoisie" means, genius) because they are the biggest casual consumers of McDonald's, bottled water, Amazon.com, and act like it's some sort of plight to have to eat meat less than 3 times a day.
> 
> The majority in the U.S. are mindless and they consume. Even the poor spend their days debating on which shade of hair dye to purchase at Wal Mart.
> 
> ...


You've just created selective criterea to help you feel good about yourself by shitting on other people. 

Your politics are hollow and self serving.


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## ENIGMA2019 (Jun 1, 2015)

Forest Nymph said:


> The majority in this country still. uphold. capitalism. I know exactly what I am talking about. The middle class are the worst of all they act like they're victims when I've done more to change my life with less money. I do not care about the middle class (that is what "bourgeoisie" means, genius) because they are the biggest casual consumers of McDonald's, bottled water, Amazon.com, and act like it's some sort of plight to have to eat meat less than 3 times a day.
> 
> The majority in the U.S. are mindless and they consume. Even the poor spend their days debating on which shade of hair dye to purchase at Wal Mart.
> 
> ...












Judgemental bs at it's best, project much??


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## Forest Nymph (Aug 25, 2018)

Jawz said:


> You've just created selective criterea to help you feel good about yourself by shitting on other people.
> 
> Your politics are hollow and self serving.


Actually my politics are grounded in holistic reality. People almost always react this way when I remind them that they are "the Man" when they routinely eat fast food, purchase certain items, or prioritize convenience over ethics. A lot of people get very defensive when they realize that the capitalist system relies absolutely on supply and demand - if there's no demand for McDonald's there's no need for factory farms, if there's no demand for Amazon, Jeff Bezos is just a nerd who likes robots rather than Dr. Evil.

The middle class in particular has a ton of power they pretend they don't have, and yeah repulsive is the only word I can use to describe it. I'm much more likely to tear up or feel a stab of empathy seeing a working class Mexican single mother being happy she can buy her daughter a bunch of plastic crap made in China at the Dollar Store than I am to see ANY middle class person whining about how walking to work makes their feet hurt, they don't know what to eat besides meat, blah blah...don't get me started on the middle class. I grew up working class and became vegan during a financial upswing in my life but maintained veganism even while I endured a short period of flat-out tent-living homelessness, so I'm not especially impressed with anyone's dietary complaints. 

My criteria is actually logical and not just selectively shitting on other people. The two biggest drivers of climate change are fossil fuel use and animal agriculture. Americans eat more meat per capita than any normal person on earth (who ever lived on earth before 1970) and have the biggest carbon footprint in history, despite the fact our conservatives keep whining that there's more people in China or India, whoops, it's those pesky middle class Americans who think they don't have to change a thing because they're not as rich as Donald Trump. See in the U.S. the problem is the game of relativism, which sucks, because people are EXTREMELY wealthy here, so some of our middle class are what would be considered wealthy in a developing country, and yet they're still acting like I'm burdening them to ask them to change up a few things about their self-centered lifestyle of excess.

Which is funny that you bring up "hollow and self-serving" because that's mostly what American capitalist excuses on why they don't have to change end up being. It's usually something like inconvenience, laziness, "oh I'm not a CEO," it's like these dum-dums have never played dominoes.

Either you want to stop participating in evil or you don't. How hard is it to simply stop participating? Just effing stop it. Don't go vegan right away, just stop eating meat. Stop purchasing anything from a factory farm. Never buy from Nestle, WalMart or Amazon again. Start drinking filtered tap water instead of bottled water.

How hard are these things? People act like you're asking them to climb Mt. Everest. It's piss-inducing comedy.


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## Forest Nymph (Aug 25, 2018)

ENIGMA 4.0 said:


> View attachment 810951
> 
> 
> Judgemental bs at it's best, project much??



That's not an argument.


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## Highway Nights (Nov 26, 2014)

This thread really is a gift that keeps on giving


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