# PerC Martial Arts Thread - Ask Me Anything!



## Empty (Sep 28, 2011)

I have been involved in martial arts (of all sorts) for around eleven years now, with a lot of useful and not-so-useful knowledge in my head. I thought it would be a good idea to make a thread for those interested in martial arts, but are not sure about anything in regards to it. Due to the nature of this subject, there may be crossovers among other forms of physical training such as strength training, flexibility, and others. On these, I may not always have the correct knowledge at hand, but I'm not adverse to any type of discussion that may arise tangentially.

On this note, ask me anything you want!


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## theredpanda (Jan 18, 2014)

I do martial arts too! Kung Fu San Soo. What styles have you trained in?


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## mrscientist (Jul 4, 2010)

Do you think you are a ninja?


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## Wartime Consigliere (Feb 8, 2011)

What are your thoughts on the Tao of Jeet Kune Do?


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## DualGnosis (Apr 6, 2013)

Which martial art would you say is the most practical and efficient for real life situations?


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## Empty (Sep 28, 2011)

theredpanda said:


> I do martial arts too! Kung Fu San Soo. What styles have you trained in?


I've done a few Chinese styles, western boxing, Thai boxing, Kyokushin karate and a little bit of wrestling.




mrscientist said:


> Do you think you are a ninja?


No.




Optimist Mind said:


> What are your thoughts on the Tao of Jeet Kune Do?


A decent book, especially for beginners. It talks about some of Bruce Lee's ideas and overall philosophy, which I think is fairly logical and progressive for his time. There are various elements I don't necessarily agree with, but they tend to be small things. Also take into consideration he died fairly young. An older, more experienced and mature Bruce Lee would likely have refined his philosophy a bit more than what we are left with.




DualGnosis said:


> Which martial art would you say is the most practical and efficient for real life situations?


I think to learn basic self defense, someone first has to learn how to fight. Sparring is the closest way to simulate a "fight." Any school that does sparring with high frequency will probably teach you how to fight well. So it's less about the type of martial art, and more about the training method of an individual school. But the ones that tend to train more realistically are usually oriented towards sport fighting, instead of a purely self-defense approach. This is just my opinion but it's based on personal experience and researching into the relationship between the martial art and self-defense/fighting capability. 

I think a striking style and a grappling style is the best combination. This is why learning Thai boxing and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu together is really common for a lot of people. But honestly, I think Judo is even better for self-defense because you're learning how to not get thrown/tackled onto the ground, and how to throw other people onto the ground. It's always the best option to incapacitate your opponent and, if possible, get out of the scene. But styles that usually have high frequency sparring (rolling, randori, etc.) are Thai boxing, boxing, full-contact karate (usually Kyokushin or some related one), sanda (Chinese kickboxing), Brazilian jiu-jutsu, wrestling, judo, and of course mixed-martial arts.


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## FallingSlowly (Jul 1, 2013)

DualGnosis said:


> Which martial art would you say is the most practical and efficient for real life situations?


If you're purely interested in self-defense, try Krav Maga. Not strictly a martial art by itself, but derived from many different martial arts, therefore combining striking and grappling techniques. It also teaches ground fighting and weapons defense.

You can learn the basics pretty quickly, but you can also go through the belt system and take it much further. I've done it for many years now, I tend to train/spar twice a week if I can. Best thing I've ever done tbh, both for fitness and self-defense. 

Aikido and Wing Chun might be ideas for main focus on self-defense, too. I dabbled a bit in the former and know a few people who practise the latter.


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## Empty (Sep 28, 2011)

FallingSlowly said:


> If you're purely interested in self-defense, try Krav Maga. Not strictly a martial art by itself, but derived from many different martial arts, therefore combining striking and grappling techniques. It also teaches ground fighting and weapons defense.
> 
> You can learn the basics pretty quickly, but you can also go through the belt system and take it much further. I've done it for many years now, I tend to train/spar twice a week if I can. Best thing I've ever done tbh, both for fitness and self-defense.
> 
> Aikido and Wing Chun might be ideas for main focus on self-defense, too. I dabbled a bit in the former and know a few people who practise the latter.



I think Krav Maga is alright. It will teach you the basic fundamentals, but I think in terms of advanced skills really focusing on any one area (striking, wrestling, ground submissions, etc.) it is pretty lacking. Not my cup of tea but certainly very useful for a specific purpose. That is... it teaches you pretty no-nonsense self-defense tactics and options.

Don't like Wing Chun personally... most schools teaching this system don't encourage heavy contact sparring, and when they do they are so dead-set on fighting with a "Wing Chun style;" only short-range, vertical punches only, only two types of kicks pretty much ever, etc. I find it honestly a bit stupid and lacking. But anyway, that's my problem. People can fight however they want. I just think their training method and mentality are not adequate.

Aikido is another can of worms. You certainly won't learn how to get hit, take hits, and what it's like to hit people. Do some more research on your own and you will find that most people who have done a fair amount of actual fighting simulation (sparring, etc.) tend to dislike Aikido for a very specific set of reasons (non-realistic, non-progressive and non-resistant training methods).


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

I have been very interested in perhaps getting into Muay Thai training, but I have no idea what to expect of the atmosphere, people, etc.. I don't even like a regular gym where you don't -have- to talk to anyone, so I have a home gym - nothin fancy, just weights. Anyway, I guess my question is, if I just stroll in completely clueless (and nervous and apprehensive lol) for my first time, what can I expect?


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## Empty (Sep 28, 2011)

It varies from gym to gym. Some gyms are very low-ego, respectful places; others may contain many individuals with pretty inflated egos or bad attitudes. If it's a gym in a rather seedy/low-income area, the gym will typically contain more aggressive individuals; at least more people interested in actually learning how to fight by doing exactly that - a lot. 

Still, I have to say all of the big/fairly famous gyms are pretty ego-free and friendly. I think places with big egos abound are actually a rarity in this sport. You learn very quickly (most men, at least) that there's always someone better than you at efficiently destroying a human body; he may be bigger, faster, stronger, tougher, crazier... the list goes on. People's egos are usually shattered fairly early when people fight often. On the other hand, it can make some people resentful against each other. Some people are rather emotional, irrational... you get all sorts.

You get various kinds of people from completely different social-economic backgrounds, so interacting with them within a finite space/abstract framework may actually be an interesting experience in its own right. 

I think in a large city like Boston, you will have access to well-known, respected gyms with positive reputations as being generally a friendly (or at least neutral) place where you will receive quality instruction. They should produce a decent amount of fighters, mostly on the amateur scene, but with a few on the professional scene.

The more great fighters are from a certain gym, the more likely they are doing something right. The gyms not producing champion fighters (and there are a lot of them) are most likely less preferable to higher quality gyms.


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## FallingSlowly (Jul 1, 2013)

Empty said:


> I think Krav Maga is alright. It will teach you the basic fundamentals, but I think* in terms of advanced skills really focusing on any one area (striking, wrestling, ground submissions, etc.) it is pretty lacking*. Not my cup of tea but certainly very useful for a specific purpose. That is... it teaches you pretty no-nonsense self-defense tactics and options.


True if you're just doing the basic, beginner level training or your standard self-defense class/course. That already changes as soon as you commit a bit more, and it's not quite so true at the higher levels (G patches/blue belt upwards, depending on affiliation). 
But you're right - it has a specific purpose, and if you're stopping at a basic level, there's not much point to just have focused skills in any one area, because that's not what you're presented with in a real life situation. You want versatility and a combination of skills (and that as quickly as possible), which is pretty much the goal of every hybrid technique.

I totally agree about the necessity of sparring btw, and in Krav Maga, you can really knock yourself out in that regard (no pun intended ).



> Aikido is another can of worms. You certainly won't learn how to get hit, take hits, and what it's like to hit people. Do some more research on your own and you will find that most people who have done a fair amount of actual fighting simulation (sparring, etc.) tend to dislike Aikido for a very specific set of reasons (non-realistic, non-progressive and non-resistant training methods).


That's one of the reasons why I didn't stick with it for too long, but it's of course a whole different philosophy. It also depends a bit on the Aikido style (Yoshinkan, Shodokan etc). Btw, randori has quite a prominent place (especially in Shodokan). So it's not all kata, but you're right about not really hitting. I still think it's not the worst martial art for small people who don't have a lot of strength (Yoshinkan is still mandatory for Japanese female police officers as far as I'm aware). It wasn't quite right for me though...


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## WindScale (Jun 16, 2013)

Empty said:


> Kyokushin Karate


I want to learn Kyokushin Karate so badly but there are almost zero schools in my vicinity that teach it. It makes me want to shed man tears. :laughing:

I will most likely have to settle for Thai Boxing and Brazilian jiu-jutsu since I have noticed that it is taught in a much more prevalent manner where I live.


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## Empty (Sep 28, 2011)

Rainquility said:


> I want to learn Kyokushin Karate so badly but there are almost zero schools in my vicinity that teach it. It makes me want to shed man tears. :laughing:
> 
> I will most likely have to settle for Thai Boxing and Brazilian jiu-jutsu since I have noticed that it is taught in a much more prevalent manner where I live.



Where are you in NJ?


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## WindScale (Jun 16, 2013)

Empty said:


> Where are you in NJ?



Mainly central NJ. More specifically within the Middlesex County vicinity.


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## Empty (Sep 28, 2011)

I found two dojos for IKF branch Kyokushin.

ElkKyo Kyokushin Karate


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## WindScale (Jun 16, 2013)

Empty said:


> I found two dojos for IKF branch Kyokushin.
> 
> ElkKyo Kyokushin Karate


Those were the same two I had stumbled upon and they are quite the distance.
Never the less I might take a road trip to visit them regardless. Who knows, I might 
get so caught up in it all that I might even attend the school anyway. 

Thanks. :happy:


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## Empty (Sep 28, 2011)

I also found an Enshin karate dojo. 

Enshin Karate of New Jersey

Enshin is an offshoot of the original Kyokushin and their rules are a bit different. But I like it a bit more; if there was Enshin karate available to me I might do it over the more traditional Kyokushin.

But the instructor/school is more important than the style or sub-style.


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## Will tankman (Jun 3, 2013)

Who would win in a fight, Bruce lee or Muhammad Ali?


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## SharpestNiFe (Dec 16, 2012)

QUESTION

I may end up moving soon, and the new place I'm moving to has a great martial arts facility.

My question is, what kind of martial arts should I do?
Things I'm looking for:

-Self-Defense
-Workout
-Spirituality
-Health (core health, cardio health, overall muscle growth/toning, more energy, less stress, overall mental health)

What I'm NOT looking for:

-A martial art that's for competition (like taekwando)
-Karate

Thoughts?
I was thinking either aikido or kung fu. Krav Maga also seems interesting. The aikido that this gym offers is coupled with jujitsu (makes sense, I guess).

Also, would you say $100/mth. is a fair price for such a membership?


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## Empty (Sep 28, 2011)

Will tankman said:


> Who would win in a fight, Bruce lee or Muhammad Ali?


Ali, unless Bruce managed to snap his knee in half with a kick somehow.




SharpestNiFe said:


> QUESTION
> 
> I may end up moving soon, and the new place I'm moving to has a great martial arts facility.
> 
> ...



I don't know what kind of martial art they teach.

Kung fu/Chinese martial arts have many different styles and schools, many which are difficult to practice simultaneously because the focus is completely different, in theory and practice. The ability and credibility of the instructor is also really dubious when it comes to this stuff.

Krav Maga is called an RBSD, or reality-based self-defense. I'm not a fan of RBSDs because I don't think they teach proper technique, strategy and focus compared to more traditional forms of martial art, especially martial arts that specialize. My opinion is that KM teaches bad habits which can be hard to break later on. Just my opinion. I know one KM instructor that would kick most people's asses, but he has trained in extremely specialized martial arts as well, so it's really unfair to say that KM is what made him a good fighter; rather, it is the other things he has practiced. 

Some people enjoy KM, and it's not all bad. I just don't like it, and it's my personal problem.

Aikido, I am not a fan of whatsoever. There are some useful techniques and tactics from Aikido, but to me it is just watered down Daito-ryu (the original bujutsu that Aikido came from - the warrior arts of samurai). I don't agree with non-violence when it pertains to martial arts. Philosophically, I do not agree with its approach. Practically, I think their training methods are ineffective and actually harmful to the student a large majority of the time. Of course, there could be that old school Aikido instructor who teaches it in a much more brutal and pragmatic way... but you'd be hard pressed to find a teacher like that these days.


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## Belladonne (Mar 22, 2014)

Empty said:


> A good martial art with a focus on realistic training methods will help you get stronger. You'll gain leaner muscles, your fast-twitch muscles will get stronger and more used, you will gain better cardio and stamina, and your mental awareness should also improve.
> 
> There is no point in doing some sort of pre-martial art strength routine. Wherever you are at now is a good place as any other to start. Being stronger will help (as this should be obvious), but one of the biggest problems I've seen are people who get dissuaded by their lack of physical power and capability when they are thinking about a martial art. Worse, when those people end up joining some strip-mall variety of school that has zero to minimal physical conditioning.
> 
> ...


Great post - thanks, man  I'm not really too concerned about stuff like collecting belts or anything, I just want something that's practical and useful lol.

Should I be trying to cover all the "different bases" (or so I've gathered) of martial arts - e.g. striking, grappling, etc? I don't want to learn just throws or just striking, if you see what I mean. There's a krav maga school near where I live, but I'm not sure how good it is - any opinions on that? Also, are certain martial arts better suited to beginners because they're more "basic"?

Finally, am I better off just dedicating all the time I can spend on this learning one "all-round" martial art and becoming really good at it, or dividing my time between different things?


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## Empty (Sep 28, 2011)

Belladonne said:


> Great post - thanks, man  I'm not really too concerned about stuff like collecting belts or anything, I just want something that's practical and useful lol.
> 
> Should I be trying to cover all the "different bases" (or so I've gathered) of martial arts - e.g. striking, grappling, etc? I don't want to learn just throws or just striking, if you see what I mean. There's a krav maga school near where I live, but I'm not sure how good it is - any opinions on that? Also, are certain martial arts better suited to beginners because they're more "basic"?
> 
> Finally, am I better off just dedicating all the time I can spend on this learning one "all-round" martial art and becoming really good at it, or dividing my time between different things?



I'm not a fan of Krav Maga for reasons I stated few times in the thread. But other people may like it.

I prefer a specialized approach to martial arts, only branching out after you have established a solid foundation in one area. Other people prefer a jack-of-all-trades approach. I don't think either one is inferior or superior for self-defense purposes, because there are too many variables to consider. It also depends on the individual.

You will lose more weight and get in shape quicker with a type of kickboxing, though. That is guaranteed and what I personally recommend.


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## theredpanda (Jan 18, 2014)

@Empty How often do you train?


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## Sage del Viento (Nov 30, 2010)

Yo, @Empty

I train in TaeKwonDo and I would like some of your thoughts and input on conditioning, especially for hand techniques since TKD is 70% legs and most modern TKD is oriented towards sport sparring usually. 

I didn't scan the whole thread, so apologies if this has already been asked, but the best I get when I try to search on the web are basically sites and suggestions for weight lifting and such. 

I'd like the conditioning to be martial related if possible.


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## Empty (Sep 28, 2011)

theredpanda said:


> @_Empty_ How often do you train?


Four days a week formal class, and I usually do 2-3 days (sometimes it's the same day) of strength training and cardio on top of that. I usually take 1-2 days off for waterbear-mode living.

When I am less lazy and poor, I will probably do another style at the same time, probably just two classes a week though.




Wanderlust94 said:


> Yo, @_Empty_
> 
> I train in TaeKwonDo and I would like some of your thoughts and input on conditioning, especially for hand techniques since TKD is 70% legs and most modern TKD is oriented towards sport sparring usually.
> 
> ...


Do you mean making your hands tougher? Or are you asking about how to improve your technique?


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## Sage del Viento (Nov 30, 2010)

Empty said:


> Do you mean making your hands tougher? Or are you asking about how to improve your technique?


I know it's a bit vague (and broad question as well), but an answer/opinion to both would be appreciated. 

Though for toughening I have experimented with a marikawa board. So that option is being explored.


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## Empty (Sep 28, 2011)

For technique I would say there is no replacement for training with hand techniques. You would probably be best suited doing another martial art that focuses on such things.

For toughening the knuckles hitting the makiwara carefully, and hitting the heavy bag with bare knuckles will help.

I don't hit the makiwara that much but I do hit the heavy bag all the time. In Kyokushin we fight with bare knuckles in competition so it's important to know how that feels and not have your wrists fold.


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## theredpanda (Jan 18, 2014)

@Empty Have you ever used your martial arts outside of the studio? Like- in a street fight or something?


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## Empty (Sep 28, 2011)

In competition and sparring, training outside of formal instructions.

No street fights for me. 

Thought I might have had to use it a few times. Never came to that point.


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## FallingSlowly (Jul 1, 2013)

Belladonne said:


> Should I be trying to cover all the "different bases" (or so I've gathered) of martial arts - e.g. striking, grappling, etc? I don't want to learn just throws or just striking, if you see what I mean. There's a krav maga school near where I live, but I'm not sure how good it is - any opinions on that? Also, are certain martial arts better suited to beginners because they're more "basic"?
> 
> Finally, am I better off just dedicating all the time I can spend on this learning one "all-round" martial art and becoming really good at it, or dividing my time between different things?


I'm with @_Empty_ on this one, and I'd actually suggest you maybe try different things/styles to see what you actually connect with.

People, and their individual strengths and weaknesses, are so different, and what works for one person doesn't necessarily work for another. No one can really say if a broader or a more specialised approach is the right one for you.

I tried Aikido, Jiu Jitsu and Judo before I settled on Krav Maga, and whilst I found them all useful and enjoyed them to an extent, none of them pulled me in like Krav. It's a hugely personal thing, and I think the only sane thing is to go and actually try it.

I've done Krav Maga for nearly a decade, and unlike some others, I'd obviously recommend it, especially to women who are interested in self-defense. Find a gym/school with a good affiliation though (I can't say anything about your local one without knowing their affiliation, and even then it hugely depends on the individual instructors), ideally one who teaches original Lichtenfeld. There are good and bad ones out there; some are pretty watered down and just do these basic self defense classes. Whilst they have a purpose, I'd personally not be keen.

I can tell you what I had to do for my brown belt (still dreaming of black belt first dan/darga, but I would need to train more than twice a week, which I simply cannot manage at the moment. On top of that, it's invitation only, and I'd possibly need to travel to Israel for it, so it's not gonna happen any time soon):


I had to actually fight/combat twice.
On top of that, I had to do tests in:
flying kicks and kick combinations
defense and counter-attack unarmed (also whilst being on the ground)
strike/attack without being in a defensive situation (grapple, kick and punch)
defense against batons, knives and guns (disarm, counter-attack and/or neutralise)
release from holds

The lower levels are obviously more basic. You learn how to choke-release, how to punch, kick (and defend against same), how to guard and fall etc. Training in weapons use and defense often starts a bit later, but that also depends on the gym/school. I actually think introducing it too early does more harm than good, but that's just me.

This might give you a good idea, also about the differences compared to other styles. 

Krav Maga on the higher levels is not for sissies (very few martial arts are tbh): 
You can get hurt (I was black and blue more than once), so you need to take this into consideration. 

What you also need to consider is if you're comfortable with mixed gender fighting/combat, and the whole host of problems (but also opportunities) that comes with it. Women generally have a problem to outdo a guy who is on a similar skill level on physical strength alone, especially where upper body strength is needed. It's not always comfortable, I say that straightaway. 

Another thing is the atmosphere at the gym/school: You need to be prepared that women are often in the minority in certain martial arts. I've only ever experienced great camaraderie, but that's not always the case from what I've heard. 
What I _have_ personally experienced is that some guys hold back a bit in sparring, but that's something I could eliminate over the years (both by getting more advanced, so they took me more seriously, and also just by telling them outright).


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## Sage del Viento (Nov 30, 2010)

@Empty

I'd like to hear your opinion on training with weights.

I personally use light weights (no more than 10 to 12 pounds) while performing hand techniques, and I'm sure to go very slowly with no "jerking" movements. I also use leg weights (no more than 5 pounds per leg) to practice kicks in, yet once again, slow movements and no "snap" kicks.

I guess I should also note I do this sparingly, much like the makiwara, so it's not an everyday thing.


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## Empty (Sep 28, 2011)

Well, it can't hurt for training endurance.

I don't know if it will help you increase power. That seems to be more along the lines of hitting the bag millions of times and refining technique. 

Also, power is mostly a product of your core and kinetic linking.


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## Philosophaser Song Boy (Jan 16, 2011)

Perhaps Qi Gong is an essential before engaging in any martial art?


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## HighClassSavage (Nov 29, 2012)

@Empty

Would it be redundant to take both Boxing and Muay Thai?

If so, which one is the more realistic and practical martial art? If I decided to take both, which should I start with first?


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## Empty (Sep 28, 2011)

Muay Thai is called the science of eight limbs because of punches, kicks, elbows and knees. So it has a wide arsenal of weapons to learn.

Boxing is just two fists. It's more simple in that regard but there are other nuances.

Pure Thai boxing is probably the better base, it is always easier to learn how to kick and check kicks first. Also, the stance in Thai boxing is pretty different than boxing. You typically stand much more square so you can counter clinch, check kicks, and throw kicks more efficiently and with more power. Thai boxers don't tend to punch with as much power but that's a limitation of how most people stand, in boxing people tend to be lower and throw their entire body much more into the punches. In Thai boxing you typically don't rotate as much, or try to drive through as much because you want to be able to respond to the lower half of your body.

Boxing stance tends to be much wider. I think it's very easy for a Thai boxer to learn pure boxing and integrate that into his game, than the other way around.

Thai boxing has boxing, but boxing doesn't have Thai boxing in it. As for learning both I think just learning Thai boxing for 3-6 months first especially if you don't have any martial arts background, THEN learn boxing in addition to it. Because there are distinct differences and your coach or teacher may tell you contradictory things between the styles and it can get really confusing for a beginner.

Also, really importantly, there are elements in pure boxing that are self-destructive in Thai boxing. For example low weaving in Thai boxing will get you kicked or kneed in the face as you're going down. In boxing you can get away with this, but it's a bad habit to develop. There is also standing grappling or clinching in Thai boxing, you have clinching in boxing but it's mostly to tie up and stall. In Thai boxing you use it to land elbows and knees to your opponent, as well as to throw or upset their balance. So Thai boxing has a larger skill set and is more interesting in my opinion.


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