# relationship advice?



## red riding hood (Aug 10, 2009)

My fiancé’s daughter choose to go live with her mothers two or three years ago and he is now paying a lot of money in child support (and I do mean thousands of dollars) his X wife is pretty much useless, she does not work, she does not pay for or take her to get clothes for things like school, she does not take their daughter for any kind of health care (and their daughter is in serious need of psychological treatment and has been diagnose with two mental disorders), her mother will not pay for any of her medications (it is cosmetic medication for acne and her mother says it is not medically necessary and I guess she is right there it is not medically necessary), but her mother basically will not do anything for her. 

My fiancé keeps picking up the slack, on top of paying outrageous child support he is paying for his daughter’s medication and taking her to the doctor (dentist and so on), and paying for her clothes, and pretty much everything for her, on top of what he is paying in child support, and his daughter is very unappreciative and out right mean to him. (she was the little girl that I was asking about weather or not her behavior was normal for a teenager)

I think sense she chose to live with her mother, and is very ungrateful for what he is doing for her, he should let her be and let her experience the consequences of her choices. She choose to go live with her mother and her mother is not going to do anything for her, and until she has to deal with those consequences, she and her mother are going to get to keep doing this, and keep thinking her and her mother’s behavior is acceptable. 

I do not think he should do nothing for her, but I think she should have to ask him to do it, and show some appreciation for what he does for her. Every time he sees a situation where he knows her mother is not going to help her he takes care of it, before she ever even asks him to, and I think that is why she takes him for granted so much, and why she and her mother get away with being so abusive toward him, he keeps saying he will not let her suffer and have so many bad things happen to her, but doing with out the things he provides would not do her serious damage, and although the consequences would be unpleasant for her, they would not be life threatening. I have put off our wedding because of the situation, and he refuses to even consider the possibility that what he is doing is the wrong way to go about doing things, and that he is enabling both his daughter and his X wife’s bad behavior.

I know there is no such thing as perfect but his daughter is very rude and disrespectful to both him and to me and my children as well as him, and his X wife is totally out of hand and taking advantage of him, and I can not tolerate it, and if we were married I would be darned if I would watch our finances drained because his X wife is just lazy.

Anyone have any ideas on what I could do? Or what I should do? My above thoughts are the only way I see to maybe make things better? Anyone else have any ideas.


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## Ninja (Jun 28, 2009)

Why didn't you say who "They" truly are to begin with? It did strike me odd that you used the word "They" so many times, without giving subject. Too personal too soon I suppose, or a disfavored shift in image. You look fine. 

As romeo pays the man who gives him poison, Your fiance pays your daughters poverty, not her mothers poor parenting. In doing the minimum, paying for child support only, he thinks that he neglects to spend the money where money needs to be spent. For there is the law of the land in the form of child support, and his moral law, which is to take care of his child as best as possible by any means necessary, may that mean going out of his way, and pushing you out of his way a bit. I sense you feel like you are fighting for him.. for him to be a good husband and father for your side. Understandable, and unless you convince him to push her aside more.. you will not have the degree of stability you want. I'm not saying you don't care for the girl, but this story has a different tone than the last, a more personal one in which you are trying to hold on to something without it slipping too far away from your standards. 

Perhaps the mother should use what child support is given more efficiently. Though if that's all thats given, manipulation may occur in which the mother turns blame on the father for not being supportive enough, causing your fiance dead beat dad syndrome, when he's actually being responsible. I suggest he see through this frame of mind, try not paying as much, and educate the mother on good use of support, as you said. 

In addition.. you not sharing a bank account yet, and getting too financially involved with him, seeing that he seems to be so sacrificial in his worthy, yet perhaps poorly trodden cause. And ofcourse there is another option, which is close to the verge of passing into possibility.


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## red riding hood (Aug 10, 2009)

red riding hood said:


> I do not think he should do nothing for her, but I think she should have to ask him to do it, and show some appreciation for what he does for her. Every time he sees a situation where he knows her mother is not going to help her he takes care of it, before she ever even asks him to, and I think that is why she takes him for granted so much.


I really do think his daughter needs help and should she be polite or respectful or show one ounce of appreciation to him for what he does then I would be more than supportive of him doing all that he does for her. She has stolen from him, she goes around slamming and breaking things of his when she does not get her way, she threatens not to see him ever again anytime he does not do what she wants, and then the behavior is reinforced because he gives her wants she wants. 

And when I say things she wants she will tell him where he is alowed to go what he is allowed to talk about, and who is allowed to assoicate with, and that is not just me, that is any person, she literally expects that he have no life out side of serving her, if she tells him if he does not make people leave the house then she is going to leave and not visit anymore, he will tell those other poeple to stay away or leave. It is crazy, and I am not the only one that thinks that. There have been many many people that have gotten out of his ife becuase of the behavior, and many people who refuse to have her in their home. 

She constantly tells him he is worthless, and he is stupid and is extremely verbally abusive, and physically aggressive. She has never physically hit anyone, but like I said she throws things and slams things, and if all else fails she will refuse to speak to him or knowledge he is alive at all until she gets what she wants. 

To me it is simple parenting 101, when your childe behaves badly you do not continue to give them what they want and support the behavior. She needs help in man ways, but until she starts experiencing consequences for her choices, she is never going to realize she needs help, nor is she going to realize that the behavior is bad, or learn to resolve problems for herself in a healthy manner. 

Then add to that her mother is neglectful, but if he keeps picking up the slack for her mother, then her mother is going to continue to be neglectful. 

I by no means want him to push his daughter away. I want just the opposite, but I do not think what he is doing is going to accomplish that. Am I wrong? Is there another options I do not see?


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## Ninja (Jun 28, 2009)

I see that you call this thread "Relationship advice". If he indeed lacks a degree in parenting 101, then why do you want him to be a parent to your child as well? Unless you can teach him, but thus far you seem to be unsuccessful.


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## InvisibleJim (Jun 30, 2009)

Personally I think your gent needs a reality check, which will be pretty difficult, but good luck


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## Alysaria (Jul 7, 2009)

It seems like a fairly common theme among parents, especially fathers, who don't have custody. The time that they do spend with their child, they want to be harmonious and conflict-free. Unfortunately, it's this attitude that actually makes the child act so hostile. 
When a person shoplifts from a store, after a while of getting away with it, they start to blame the store for not stopping them. In the same way, a child that can get away with anything blames their parents for letting them. As weird as this sounds, she *wants* to be disciplined.... Frankly, as much as it's going to kill him to say this, it needs to be turned around to "No, I will not have you in my house if you can't be respectful" As long as she has the weapon of his desire to have her in his life, she'll use it. That one sentence takes away that weapon. By no means am I saying he should cut association, but he can't let her keep having the upper hand. 

I'm afraid all you can do is point things out, my dear. At the end of the day, he has to make the choice. All you can do is offer emotional support for what is bound to be a painful struggle regardless...or withdraw for the sake of yourself and your children. Just let him know, if you decide to take things into your own hands and stand up to the girl, he NEEDS to return the favor and support you as well. You'll never get anywhere if he keeps caving.


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## red riding hood (Aug 10, 2009)

Ninja said:


> I see that you call this thread "Relationship advice". If he indeed lacks a degree in parenting 101, then why do you want him to be a parent to your child as well? Unless you can teach him, but thus far you seem to be unsuccessful.


 
This issue is why I have put off our wedding, and I have also distanced my children from him, and unless I can find something to make things better, then I have no idea what other option I have than to cancle our engagment all together, however in every other way he is quite the perfect man, so I often wonder if I am just being a wussy, who wants poerfect, and perfect does not exist anyway.


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## Alysaria (Jul 7, 2009)

red riding hood said:


> This issue is why I have put off our wedding, and I have also distanced my children from him, and unless I can find something to make things better, then I have no idea what other option I have than to cancle our engagment all together, however in every other way he is quite the perfect man, so I often wonder if I am just being a wussy, who wants poerfect, and perfect does not exist anyway.


I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting someone who can set rules and stand by them. There's always going to be doubt that he won't always hold up his end of things and leave you stranded when you need his support if you leave this unresolved. This isn't really about his relationship with his daughter, it's about his strength of character and how well he can handle conflict. You're trying to balance your caring for him against your own well-being and that of your children. Of course you don't want to bring your children into that situation, and yet, you can't help but want to protect your fiance from his own good intentions.

It comes to whether or not you really think he's willing to take steps toward changing the situation.


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## red riding hood (Aug 10, 2009)

Alysaria said:


> This isn't really about his relationship with his daughter, it's about his strength of character and how well he can handle conflict. You're trying to balance your caring for him against your own well-being and that of your children. Of course you don't want to bring your children into that situation


That really is it in a nut shell, her behavior I might be willing to deal with, if he did not behave as if it were ok, and made it clear to everyone involved that is was not OK, and he was able to set reasonable limits and boundries. 

I have worked so hard to make sure that my children have learend to be caring toward other people, and I don't want them exposed to that and learning it is OK. Although I am concerned about what she might actually do to my children herself, so maybe I would not tolerate her behavior at all. However I think if he set reasonable boundires and limits there just might be a change in her behavior. To me it all boils down to if he can realize the situation is bad and his choices are making it worse, and if he wants to do something about it. 

It seems no matter what I say or do he refuses to really see the situation and what it is doing to his daughter and to others. There are times that I get mad at him becuase I know when it all boils down he is really hurting her more than helping her. I am all out of ideas, and just hoped that someone might know a better way to handle it.


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## Alysaria (Jul 7, 2009)

It sounds like you're ready to set an ultimatum. I'd go with your gut feeling.


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## Ninja (Jun 28, 2009)

What Alys said. Seems like you gathered all the coconuts from the trees.. so you might as well climb down and deal what you have.


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## decided (May 17, 2009)

Hmmm... please bear with me while I let my brain wander through your messages. I'm listening to music and trying to let ideas flow out...

The first thing that comes to my mind is: 'love and control are not good companions'.
If you love this man and want to be with him - you must learn to accept that you cannot control him. You may be right about how your man should treat his daughter, but ulitmately it is up to him to decide. You have your own decisions to make.

The next thing that comes to my mind is: 'what are you afraid of?'
What are the things that you are most afraid will happen because of this situation? I think you need to uncover what fears you have, really explore them. Are the fears unfounded? Are they things that you could eliminate? Are there things that could happen that could alleviate your fear?

Hmmm... that's it for now. I'm sorry if it sounds really wishy-washy. Feel free to ignore me if I'm barking up the wrong tree, I only meant to be helpful - honest! But if you have any more thoughts, I'd be interested to hear them.


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## InvisibleJim (Jun 30, 2009)

I think you need to be very. very, very careful here if your fiance is INTJ!!


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## red riding hood (Aug 10, 2009)

decided said:


> Hmmm... please bear with me while I let my brain wander through your messages. I'm listening to music and trying to let ideas flow out...
> 
> The first thing that comes to my mind is: 'love and control are not good companions'.
> If you love this man and want to be with him - you must learn to accept that you cannot control him. You may be right about how your man should treat his daughter, but ulitmately it is up to him to decide. You have your own decisions to make.
> ...


You are correct that I can not control him, and I have to make my own choices, I have never told him out right, that he has to find a better solution to the problem or I am going to leave, I think he deserves to know that information. It seems to me that my only choices are either accept it or leave. Both of which suck so I keep hoping that at some point she is going to get bad enough that he is going to try to take some action. However I think anymore, out side of her hurting someone else really really bad, or her attempting suicide nothing is going to open his eyes. Even then I don’t know that would help, he always has a tendency to blame other people for what is happening it is her mothers fault, or someone else’s fault and there is nothing he can do to help her because he does not have custody anymore, seems to me that is a load of horse crap though. I think half the reason she is having all of these problems is because she has never been taught that although outside forces may be impacting you, you always have choices in how you are going to deal with them. I guess that works the same for me, so I have to make my choices as well.

As to what I am afraid of, I am afraid my children will learn her behavior. I am afraid that she will hurt my children or hurt herself or others. Given she has done things in the past to hurt others and continues to do so, I think it is quite likely to happen again, I worry even more that it is going to escalate, and I think it already is. There is a history of people with her mental disorders actually killing other people and them selves; this is why I don’t allow her around my children now. The fact that she is expressing desires to hurt others and to end her own life now, makes me worry even more. I just keep hoping it is a kind of teenage phase she will out grow, but my son is only 4 months younger, and I have friends with children the same age, and none of them display the behavior she displays, and most of them will not be around her either, they say she scares them, or that she is mean, and some of them have said themselves she is out right crazy. I feel really bad for her and very angry that both her father and her mother are just damaging her more, and not getting her any help or treatment. 

Jim what do you think I should be careful of? Being that you are INTj yourself you might know a better way to help the situation? Really anymore we have had a few disagreements but pretty much I have just told him I will not be around her or allow her to be around my children because I have to protect my children and myself. That is where we are, but he still behaves as if we are going to get married and move forward at some point, with out this situation improving, there is no way that would work, I mean what would we do? I only see two solutions to that scenario (marrying him with the situation as is) and netiher are acceptable to me, the solutions would be 

1. I take my children and leave anytime she comes to visit. whihc means I would have to find a new home for 6 weeks of the summer and 1 weekend a month, and any holidays she is home.

2. He goes and visits with her else where, and then not have him home for any holidays and so on. 

To me neither of those is acceptable, but I don’t see any other solutions to marrying him under these conditions.


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## Alysaria (Jul 7, 2009)

If she's openly suggested killing herself, then she needs some serious help....like counseling, not just drugging her up and hoping for the best. All three of them, him, the ex, and his daughter, probably could use some counseling to work out issues and improve the situation.


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## InvisibleJim (Jun 30, 2009)

One must remember that she is a divorcee kid and probably think the world hates her. Depending on her age of the breakup she will likely never accept the situation and have issues as a result.

As an INTJ I'm sure your fiance will be commited to ensuring his daughter is ok regardless of the personal and emotional cost, just as an INFJ will be to your own. The problem is, as much as you can't control your fiance to get a grip of the situation, he really cant control his ex in any way resulting in a more serious problem for him.

Probably you need to sit down and ask his opinion on what he feels is going on with his daughter. He will know there are problems, but may not have solutions and probably needs your support to work out the correct path.


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## Ninja (Jun 28, 2009)

What are you afraid of if you don't Marry him?


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## red riding hood (Aug 10, 2009)

Alysaria said:


> If she's openly suggested killing herself, then she needs some serious help....like counseling, not just drugging her up and hoping for the best. All three of them, him, the ex, and his daughter, probably could use some counseling to work out issues and improve the situation.


I totally agree with you, I think she needs a really good therapist, and she saw one when she lived with her father, she did also have some medication, and although she still had some issues she was no where near like what she is now. Her mother told her to stop taking her medication, and she refuses to take her to any therapist (she will not even take her to a doctor of any kind) there is no way on earth her mother is going to go to any therapist, as for her father, he says he tried that, he went with her when she was younger and sense she is how she is now, it will do no good, and that sense he does not have custody or have her enough there is nothing he can do. 

I have thought about calling childrens services where she lives now and telling them her mother is neglecting to provide her care needed medical care, but I am not sure what they would do, although it only takes about two seconds of being in a room with her to know something is seriously wrong, any one says hello, she will just turn her back and walk away, or stare a hole straight through them but she will not speak to them, or aknowledge they exist or have spoken to her. She has gotten to the point that she will not even speak to someone she has not known for years, so I figure if some one came to evlaute her and saw how she was behaving now, maybe just maybe they would issue a court order that her mother had to take her for mental health services, but I do not know and that could make the situation much much worse. Until she wants help, I really don't think there is much that will really help and so long as her father enables her she is not going to want help. Kind of like with an alcholic, until they hit the bottom and want help there is nothing you can do, but at them same time, bottom for her could be very very dangerous. 

Jim thanks for the advice, I guess for me seeing the dynamics of situations is an easier thing than for him. As for how old she was when they divorced she was I think 5 or 6. Her father had sole custody until she was 14 her mother would drift in and out of her life at a whim. Personally I think she went to live with him becuase she wanted her mother to pay attention to her so much. Her mom has some serious mental health issues as well, (she actually once went to a police station and said he was pumping invsible tastless odor less gas into her home to kill her, and he had poisioned all her silver wear, I think the most bizzare one though was when she said he was sexually abusing a guinea pig. I am still trying to figure out how anyone could sexually abuse a guniea pig?) That was why her father was given sole custody, and her mother had supervised visitation for quite awhile, I still can not understand how a court allowed her to go live with her mother just becuase she asked to. A child with mental health issues is not the best person to make those choices, and it definetly was not in her best intrest.


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## Alysaria (Jul 7, 2009)

I think I'd feel worse if something *did* happen and I didn't do anything. Social services will at least investigate... >< This is just an all-around ugly situation.


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## InvisibleJim (Jun 30, 2009)

red riding hood said:


> I have thought about calling childrens services where she lives now and telling them her mother is neglecting to provide her care needed medical care, but I am not sure what they would do, although it only takes about two seconds of being in a room with her to know something is seriously wrong, any one says hello, she will just turn her back and walk away, or stare a hole straight through them but she will not speak to them, or aknowledge they exist or have spoken to her. She has gotten to the point that she will not even speak to someone she has not known for years, so I figure if some one came to evlaute her and saw how she was behaving now, maybe just maybe they would issue a court order that her mother had to take her for mental health services, but I do not know and that could make the situation much much worse. Until she wants help, I really don't think there is much that will really help and so long as her father enables her she is not going to want help. Kind of like with an alcholic, until they hit the bottom and want help there is nothing you can do, but at them same time, bottom for her could be very very dangerous.


Just remember that people often build walls not to keep people out, but to see who cares enough to tear them down. Probably shopping her might seem like even more lack of caring.


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## red riding hood (Aug 10, 2009)

Ninja said:


> What are you afraid of if you don't Marry him?


 


Well I don't really have many fears about not marrying him. I have a really great life, and I had a great life before we started dating. I do worry a little about losing his friendship. He has been a very good friend through the years, and we were friends before we started dating, but if it comes down to my safety and the safety of my children, and if he would knowingly put us in harms way then we are much better off away from the situation, and with the life we had before. Although I am not sure he really does not see the inherent danger in the situation, or maybe he just does not want to see it. I have boys, and she has made false accusations of sexual abuse in the past, and I really worry that she would get mad at them, and do something like that. I think my children would be upset as well, they were once looking forward to our marriage, they are already a little hurt now, as they have experienced him letting his daughter be abusive toward them, and toward him, and they have made it clear they do not want her for a step sister, and really I can not blame them, and as silly as it is, I am scared that if I just walk away and desert them things are going to be worse for both of them, however I do have to remind myself that him taking care of himself and his daughter is not now really my responsibility. Although I guess if I married him it would be to some extent.




InvisibleJim said:


> Just remember that people often build walls not to keep people out, but to see who cares enough to tear them down. Probably shopping her might seem like even more lack of caring.


 
I think sometimes people do put up walls to see if people care enough to climb them, but in her case I don’t know for sure, I have had a bad habit in the past of making the mistake that if I gave someone enough love things would get better, but in the end I was just enabling really bad behavior or a bad situation, and in this situation I see her taking advantage of people who she sees as week, and she sees caring for someone as a vulnerability. Sense I started ignoring her behavior she has gotten worse to the people I care about, almost as if she knows that is still the one way to get at me, and get attention. It is kind of like a kid throwing themselves on the floor having a tantrum and then saying hay get up and we will got get ice-cream, next time they want ice-cream they do not ask, they through a tantrum, and I think that is some of what has happened with her. 

I think that might be what my fiancé is doing. I have noticed he has a tendency to shut people out but I think that is more just an aspect of his personality, he does not let many people in, and he rarely talks about how he feels about anything, sometimes I do not think he really even knows or thinks about how he feels and occasionally forgets how his choices impact the feelings and situations for others, usually a reminder in that circumstance helps, but in this one it goes in one ear and out the other, he has blinders on and is on the idea that if he loves her more and does more for herm then things will get better, but if it is not helping it seems foolish to me to keep doing the same thing..I swear watching the dynamics of their relationship is like watching an abusive marriage, and he has said himself that sometimes her behavior s like an abusive spouse, telling him what to wear, what he can do, and so on, and making threats to manipulate him and play on his fears to get him to do what she wants.


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## Ninja (Jun 28, 2009)

You question if your fiance thinks or knows how he feels. Yet you say he is a good man, which I don't doubt. 

It seems that he doesn't know himself to me. Perhaps some of the mental illness comes from his side of the family, in regards to not recognizing the negative impacts of ones own behavior. Also, you can't get through to him, like none can get through to her. I sense a similar mental block taking effect. 

Perhaps your allegiance to him has blinded you to the perspective that he is not really.. good for you. Though you say he is a good man in many ways. You don't want to lose your friend. I understand, but I wouldn't pursue actions based on this fear. I'm not saying this is a deciding factor in anything, yet you do state that you worry about it.. so it's 100% relevant. 

I could present these as questions, but it's easier for me this way.

But if I were to ask questions, I would ask, What kind of man gets involved with a woman like that?
A helpful man or a man that has personal blinds himself.. and you've stated the second seems to be the case.

What kind of woman gets with a man with personal blinds, a woman such as yourself, a helpful one. I'm thinking you've seen this trait in him for a long time, and as with many we are attracted to.. you were drawn to him because you wanted to show him a brighter side


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## red riding hood (Aug 10, 2009)

My fears are rather small in comparison to what I see as benefits or dangers. Really he is a very very good person, even what he is doing now he is doing with what he thinks are the best intentions. He is generally very stable and dependable, sort of a rock in a storm. I have always remembered when he took a fellowship job in DC, and said the biggest reason he wanted to do it, was because he hoped he could have the chance to do things that would help people, it is rare that he expresses those things and it was very endearing to me. Keep in mind he is an INTJ, emotions and relationships are his weakest point. From what I know of most INTJs it is not an uncommon trait for their personality. I guess an INTJ could explain that better for me, for me sensing and expressing emotions and seeing connections are quite easy, for him it is very very hard. 

He is stuck in this rut where he is thinking if he does enough, loves her enough she will "love him back" but no one can buy a persons love or respect, and no matter what he does so long as he keeps saving her from consequences and making excuses for her behavior she will not appreciate him or get better. If some one has a problem and you keep telling them well it this person’s fault or that person’s fault, you are just a poor victim, you take ownership out of their hands, you disempowered them, but if you say you can over come this, you empower them to take ownership and find solutions. In every other way he is quite good for us. He is the kind of man who would give his bottom dollar to help anyone, and anytime I have a problem he is usually there to try to help. I have known him for years and one of the things I have always loved about him, is how he is always there for people when they need him, he is typically very responsible. 

He is just lost on this one, and feels so much like he has failed her that he is trying to make it up to her, there is an element of codependency in the issue I think, because he seems to want more to escape his pain from seeing his daughter enduring any hard ships, more than he really wants to do what is best for her, he has even said “*I* can not see her suffer like that” those were his exact words and it made my hair kind of stand up. I know that mentality, and it is actually a very selfish kind of love, sometimes we hate watching someone we love hurt, but we know that experiencing the consequences of their actions is going to be what is best for them, I know that is not healthy love, I just don’t think he can see that. There are times that he stops and questions the situation with is daughter, but always when it comes down to the wire he will give into her and do for her almost anything when wants or demands, she controls him with guilt, threats and fear. There have been times that I have thought that some of the things she is doing are not related to her mental disorders, and that she is fully aware of what she is ding, and means to do it to control him, although one could say that this obsessive need for dominance and control could be a disorder in and of itself, or related to the issues she already has, I generally hope I am wrong. 

There is a part of me that says the best thing I can do for them is to walk away and let them experience it on there own, and stop giving him advice or trying to be there for him when he is hurt, if he is making his own bed then I should let him lie in it, maybe I am doing the same things as him, I think maybe by staying I am enabling his bad choices, and that is a very unhealthy relationship. I am just not sure. It is really not easy, but I know my fear of abandoning him is not rational and he has to take care of himself if he is ever going to really be able to have a healthy relationship with anyone, and that is why I have put things off.


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## Alysaria (Jul 7, 2009)

I had to chat with my INFP friend about this (and briefly turn into my ESTJ mother) over lunch to really analyze this situation. I've decided the following: INFJs, sweethearts though you are, don't really ask advice for the sake of input...you already have a decision, and you want validation. O.O You're advice givers, so it's not as natural to be requesting it.


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## red riding hood (Aug 10, 2009)

You are right it is not typical for me to be asking for advice, and usually making decisions comes very easily to me, but I think as someone stated above, I might be a bit blinded in this one, normally I am able to separate my wants and feelings about a situation and look at what is going to lead to the best possible outcome for everyone, but on this one it is hard, because I do love him and want him in my life very much, and regardless of his daughter’s problems I love her to, and I am very scared for her. In this case I look and I see no really good outcomes not matter what choice I make. All the options that I see stink, so I am hoping someone has a better idea. The best one I have thought of is calling children’s services and seeing if someone where she is now, will make her mother get her some mental health care, but I am not even sure about that one, or what out come it would have.


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## Alysaria (Jul 7, 2009)

Make a list. Put down all your options and the pros and cons of each and weigh them against each other - figure out what will end up being the best solution all around. I know you want a win-win...that may be impossible without your fiance's help. Any help you can offer him beyond going around him and calling child services is going to require his cooperation.


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## InvisibleJim (Jun 30, 2009)

I see an immediate issue in your logic. You feel that your fiance should do less for his daughter to safeguard your own children. You have to be very tactful with this. Some reasoning and deduction about a true path is required. By all means is it such an issue if your kids don't mix with his daughter? Probably not, especially if he agrees with the reasoning. I'm sure he will understand that your children are one of your top priorities in life.


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## Ninja (Jun 28, 2009)

I am someone, as someone said above. The them in your proposal of the one, who proposed the notion of blindness. Blindness which comes from seeing emotionally not with the senses which state facts more accurately. The fact you're not attributing things to people enough. "They" were your family, "someone" was me. It's like you're in some kind of zone.. in which you're taking it all on yourself without allotting blame even if it's worthy of placement. As if you are the holder of all these people and their lives. Allot blame for a second by name. The man, his daughter, his ex, all have problems and most likely did before you came along, and now you have put yourself in the position of problem solver. Back up.. Back up.. So you can see without being so close to the issue.. and be able to name objects.... *Back up!* so you that you aren't so close that you don't know what's going on like your fiance...Indeed distance is good for multiple reasons.


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