# Open Letter to SF and NF Types from an NT



## ColoradoGrrrl (Jan 8, 2016)

Dear Feeling Types,

Tread lightly my feeling-type friends when you emote with your thinking-type friends... to us that is a sign of intimacy, because for us feelings are shared with VERY few people (especially if that person is an ENTJ or INTJ). We have feelings, deep feelings, powerful feelings, but you may not even be aware of them because we share them with so few people. When we routinely allow you space in our lives to share your feelings it creates a certain level of intimacy and if you aren't willing to allow that same level of emotional intimacy in return that is the most painful kind of rejection and hurt to us. One sided sharing of feelings is just selfish, emotional narcissism. So with a thinker, keep your feelings to yourself unless you are really ready, willing and able to be the deep kind of friend that we can also share our feelings with. Don't expect me to walk through your deepest hurts, your struggles with moral failings, and highest joys with you and then turn around and not be there for me. Please and thank you.


Sincerely,

An NT Who Has Been Burned


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## lookslikeiwin (May 6, 2014)

For NTPs it might be more an issue of misinterpretig signals. We might share quite openly, but we always assume there is a motive and might not be sure what that motive is unless you state your intentions clearly. Fakeness is not appreciated. Just be direct and honest.


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## Judgment_Knight (Feb 1, 2015)

lookslikeiwin said:


> For NTPs it might be more an issue of misinterpretig signals. We might share quite openly, but we always assume there is a motive and might not be sure what that motive is unless you state your intentions clearly. Fakeness is not appreciated. Just be direct and honest.


Despite being an NTP, I find myself the biggest liar in conversation. I always try to project this look of mild surprise and try not to focus on everyone else's nose crinkles while suppressing my own. Either way, it isn't a true open letter if it isn't in the SF and NF forums?


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## lookslikeiwin (May 6, 2014)

Judgment_Knight said:


> Despite being an NTP, I find myself the biggest liar in conversation. I always try to project this look of mild surprise and try not to focus on everyone else's nose crinkles while suppressing my own. Either way, it isn't a true open letter if it isn't in the SF and NF forums?


I used to also find myself accidentally lying about my opinions, but that has changed as I have come through a few things, and ultimately I lied because I got the impression they wanted me to. I find that I care a lot less about others opinions now though. Those of us with poor Fe have to learn social honesty the hard way. From my observation, it's harder for ENTPs than INTPs.

And yeah, this should probably be in the NF and SF forums.


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## goodthankyou (Mar 25, 2016)

ColoradoGrrrl said:


> Tread lightly my feeling-type friends when you emote with your thinking-type friends... to us that is a sign of intimacy


!!!!! Thanks for the information o_o I had NO IDEA. I'm so used to sharing my feelings about this and that with EVERYONE. I hope there's no one out there thinking I'm coming on to them or something o_o

Will take note.


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## ColoradoGrrrl (Jan 8, 2016)

goodthankyou said:


> !!!!! Thanks for the information o_o I had NO IDEA. I'm so used to sharing my feelings about this and that with EVERYONE. I hope there's no one out there thinking I'm coming on to them or something o_o
> 
> Will take note.


Thanks for this! One of the people who burned me is an INFJ... when he opens up I take that very much as an intimacy thing, but it was a level of intimacy in our friendship that was not in fact reciprocated... I didn't think he was coming on to me, but I did begin to think that we had a more intimate level of friendship and found myself disappointed and hurt when I needed/wanted him to be there as an intimate friend that I could be vulnerable with and he was not up to the task - nor, in fact, willing at all to be that intimate of a friend to me - despite his own sharing with me. :/


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## WorkENTP (Apr 9, 2016)

What exactly did this person do to burn you?


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## Purple Skies (Aug 31, 2015)

I think this should be directed more towards FJ types. FP types don't usually open up that easily and are generally discomforted by sharing their sincere emotions with someone. 

Not generalising though... just saying.


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## Yu Narukami (Jan 14, 2016)

Your letter gave me the feels. I almost cried (almost).


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## ColoradoGrrrl (Jan 8, 2016)

WorkENTP said:


> What exactly did this person do to burn you?


My dad died. He noticed I was sad and offered to make time to talk. I told him I wasn't sure if his offer was one I could take because for me I only felt safe to open up with that stuff with friends that were truly close... and while I would LOVE for him to be one of those intimate friends, the vibe I've gotten from him on more than one occasion was that he wasn't truly interested in getting to know me on that level. He said that was accurate. And it hurt. Because I'd exposed a very vulnerable side to him in even admitting that much, and it felt like he was a predator just clawing through my soft side. He might as well have said, "I won't think you are a worthwhile human being. I only view you as a tool. Your presence in my life is purely utilitarian.".... which, believe it or not, is NOT what an ENTJ wants to be... we are good at being useful, because we do work hard... but we aren't robots here to work hard for your pleasure. We are human beings too. Our tough exteriors hide pretty mushy middles, and when we take down our walls to actually share that with someone and only to be stomped on and told that we are not valuable as friends - only for what we do - well, that just makes me, at least, want to build the walls higher and stronger so I don't get hurt again.



Yu Narukami said:


> Your letter gave me the feels. I almost cried (almost).


LOL!  Perfect ENTJ response.


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## Yu Narukami (Jan 14, 2016)

ColoradoGrrrl said:


> My dad died. He noticed I was sad and offered to make time to talk. I told him I wasn't sure if his offer was one I could take because for me I only felt safe to open up with that stuff with friends that were truly close... and while I would LOVE for him to be one of those intimate friends, the vibe I've gotten from him on more than one occasion was that he wasn't truly interested in getting to know me on that level. He said that was accurate. And it hurt. Because I'd exposed a very vulnerable side to him in even admitting that much, and it felt like he was a predator just clawing through my soft side. He might as well have said, "I won't think you are a worthwhile human being. I only view you as a tool. Your presence in my life is purely utilitarian.".... which, believe it or not, is NOT what an ENTJ wants to be... we are good at being useful, because we do work hard... but we aren't robots here to work hard for your pleasure. We are human beings too. Our tough exteriors hide pretty mushy middles, and when we take down our walls to actually share that with someone and only to be stomped on and told that we are not valuable as friends - only for what we do - well, that just makes me, at least, want to build the walls higher and stronger so I don't get hurt again.


Yes. I've had similar experiences as well. I always feel a bit ambivalent when people say "wow it's nice to know that you have emotions as well." While it's great to know that my vulnerabilities are generally hidden from the public at large, it's also slightly concerning that so few people have a genuine understanding of me. 

On a side note, I see from your signature that you are a type 2 ENTJ. I can't imagine that being terribly commonplace. How has it worked out for you so far?


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## ColoradoGrrrl (Jan 8, 2016)

Yu Narukami said:


> Yes. I've had similar experiences as well. I always feel a bit ambivalent when people say "wow it's nice to know that you have emotions as well." While it's great to know that my vulnerabilities are generally hidden from the public at large, it's also slightly concerning that so few people have a genuine understanding of me.
> 
> On a side note, I see from your signature that you are a type 2 ENTJ. I can't imagine that being terribly commonplace. How has it worked out for you so far?


Yeah. I find that almost no one really understands me... at least a few people try.

Well, it depends on which version of the test. I get 8w1 as a top 3 result regardless, but one version said 2w3 and another said 3w2... in either case 2 and 3 are really high up there for me. 3 and 8 seem to be super common among ENTJs, so those aren't much of a surprise... I guess I chalk the high levels of 2 to a few things 1) my mom is an ISFJ, so I grew up in a home with someone who cared deeply about helping others... 2) both my parents are/were in psychology so I think talking about feelings in general was more common in my house - and as a result I have , I think, really highly developed Fi, including Fi empathy... even though I don't show my emotions much, I still feel them deeply and have a great deal of empathy for the feelings of others.... (but I'm still very much a thinker as evidenced by my tendency to say "I think" before "I feel" and just generally preferring evidence to emotion.)... 3) As an NT female, and a ballsy ENTJ at that, I got picked on a lot in middle school and high school for not fitting the mold (some of which I almost certainly brought on myself by being a self-righteous b*tch... I was an immature ENTJ and didn't know any better, and at the time had not fully developed my Fi to the point of being able to empathize with others and how they saw me). As a result of being picked on I genuinely NEVER want anyone to feel the way I was made to feel. I want everyone I meet to feel valued and worthwhile, as much as in my power to provide that... 4) Part of it is also almost certainly related to being a girl and my desire for affection that is just more common in my gender.... 5) I also feel much of it is down to my faith, and firmly believing that I should love other better than myself and that I can achieve many things, but if I do it without love it's not much benefit to the world...

As a result I've second guessed if I were really ENTJ, or if I'm actually ENFJ... since in social situations and in my career goals (now at least - when I was younger I wanted to be the first female president of the US, a lawyer and an neurologist - which are all very ENTJ things to desire I think)... I tend to line up more with ENFJ traits as result of my high 2 ranking.... but every time I've done the MBTI test or some iteration of it I have always tested as ENTJ... I'm just weird. LOL.



(Though according to this at least being a 3w2 isn't that uncommon for an ENTJ: http://thoughtcatalog.com/heidi-priebe/2016/01/mbti-and-the-enneagram-2/7/)


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## Yu Narukami (Jan 14, 2016)

I can draw a lot of parallels between your experience and mine. My family household consists of an ISFP dad and an ENFJ mom. Especially going into highschool, the people there were extremely sensitive, and standing out like a sore thumb, I went through a period of a couple of years where I had to rapidly develop my Fi function. So, for the longest time, I typed myself as a 2w3 ENFP. The P mistype might have been in part because I always loved the fact that I didn't need to study for 2 weeks to ace tests like other people, and felt that fit into the P stereotype pretty well.

Looking back though, I realize that ENFP does not fit at all. ENFPs don't cry after getting 2nd on a test lol. They don't feel the compulsive desire to be the best at everything they do. They don't get picked on for being obnoxious and precocious. But I do think the three or so years being mistyped as an ENFP helped me a lot in terms of understanding emotions and feelings. Even though I'm not able to feel the same range of emotions as vividly as other types, I am at least consciously aware of what kind of reactions to expect.

I wonder if you have similar thoughts on seeing yourself occasionally as an ENFJ?


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## ColoradoGrrrl (Jan 8, 2016)

Yu Narukami said:


> I wonder if you have similar thoughts on seeing yourself occasionally as an ENFJ?


I think the biggest thing that tells me I am actually and ENTJ and not an ENFJ despite sharing some similar strengths is the whole Extraverted Feeling function.

For instance: "*The ENFJ may feel quite lonely even when surrounded by people. This feeling of aloneness may be exacerbated by the tendency to not reveal their true selves.*

People love ENFJs. They are fun to be with, and truly understand and love people.* They are typically very straight-forward and honest. Usually ENFJs exude a lot of self-confidence, and have a great amount of ability to do many different things. They are generally bright, full of potential, energetic and fast-paced. They are usually good at anything which captures their interest.*

*ENFJs like for things to be well-organized*, and will work hard at maintaining structure and resolving ambiguity. They have a tendency to be fussy, especially with their home environments.

In the work place, ENFJs do well in positions where they deal with people. They are naturals for the social committee. Their uncanny ability to understand people and say just what needs to be said to make them happy makes them naturals for counseling. *They enjoy being the center of attention, and do very well in situations where they can inspire and lead others, such as teaching*.

_ENFJs do not like dealing with impersonal reasoning. They don't understand or appreciate its merit, and will be unhappy in situations where they're forced to deal with logic and facts without any connection to a human element._ Living in the world of people possibilities, they enjoy their plans more than their achievements. *They get excited about possibilities for the future, but may become easily bored and restless with the present.*

*ENFJs have a special gift with people, and are basically happy people when they can use that gift to help others. They get their best satisfaction from serving others.*_ Their genuine interest in Humankind and their exceptional intuitive awareness of people makes them able to draw out even the most reserved individuals._

*ENFJs have a strong need for close, intimate relationships, and will put forth a lot of effort in creating and maintaining these relationships. They're very loyal and trustworthy once involved in a relationship.*

An ENFJ who has not developed their Feeling side _may have difficulty making good decisions, and may rely heavily on other people in decision-making processes_. If they have not developed their Intuition, they may not be able to see possibilities, and will judge things too quickly based on established value systems or social rules, without really understanding the current situation. _An ENFJ who has not found their place in the world is likely to be extremely sensitive to criticism, and to have the tendency to worry excessively and feel guilty._ They are also likely to be very manipulative and controling with others.

*In general, ENFJs are charming, warm, gracious, creative and diverse individuals with richly developed insights into what makes other people tick.* This special ability to see growth potential in others combined with a genuine drive to help people makes the ENFJ a truly valued individual. As giving and caring as the ENFJ is, they need to remember to value their own needs as well as the needs of others." (Source: Portrait of an ENFJ)

The parts in bold are also true of me, but the italicized parts are not at all true of me. I do now usually read people quite well, but only because I have made an intellectual study of it (thinking about thinking - both physiologically and psychologically - being one of my favorite lines of inquiry since I was that 9 year old kid that wanted to be a neurologist).... But it is not innate to me in the way it is to an extraverted feeler. My knowledge also comes from personal experience and the related ability to now empathize better with others, and again, partly from being a girl and just being wired to be more relational on the gender identity spectrum. Where I think if I were _really_ and ENFJ I would just do that naturally, rather than as a result of it being an intellectual challenge, a developed skill and a learned social response.

"When Fe types engage with others, they are looking to create a bond of shared feeling, especially “good” feeling. This requires they not only extravert feeling, but also perceive it. They are hoping their feelings will be understood and reciprocated in a way that allows both parties to get on the same emotional page. The satisfaction of creating rapport and emotional harmony also leads FJs to enjoy supporting and counseling others with emotional or relational difficulties. For similar reasons, friendships are generally of great importance to FJs." (Source: Extraverted Feeling (Fe))

I do enjoy creating rapport with others and encouraging them to be their best selves. Friendships are also of great importance to me... but I don't particularly enjoy counseling others. When people do come to me for advice I tend to analyze the situation rationally and offer them the most reasonable solution as I see it, even if I acknowledge that it may not be what "feels" best to them, ultimately I would advise them that their feeling is just a feeling - and that doesn't mean it is the best guide. Evidence is the best guide in decision making. Where I think an ENFJ would be more likely to "Follow their heart"... I'm all about "Follow your brain"... hopefully, ideally, the most reasonable decision is also one that makes you feel good - either immediately or in the long term - but it shouldn't be the priority.

So yeah... all that to say, that I think my Fi is much more developed than for many/most ENTJs and that leads me to makes choices (esp in my career path and in social situations) that might be more in line with an ENFJ.... but they are still based more on analytical thought than emotional feeling.


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## kiwigrl (Apr 27, 2010)

ColoradoGrrrl said:


> My dad died.


I'm so sorry for your loss. I understand the grief and the pain you will be feeling, as I lost my dad almost 6 years ago and I still miss him. People usually forget about your grief after about a month except maybe one or two people, human nature. But it's important to talk about your memories and to take time to smile because you had a dad whom you loved, once.
I don't know what to say about your acquaintance above, but I hope you won't give up on NFs because of his poor example.


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## Doc Dangerstein (Mar 8, 2013)

... I'm NF and I agree with you. Sucks that your friend bailed on you. Friend is certainly an overstatement because I find it difficult to call someone who uses another an emotional dumping ground for their personal problems a genuine friend. I'm willing to go as far as saying they're not even capable of being friends. Some people just like drama. Maybe it's the only thing they have to offer. I don't know. I'm sorry you got burned.

Betrayal hurts, I found mine to be emotionally crippling. I felt hurt, angry. I felt I was broken. I build walls around me and felt lonely and imprisoned inside my sanctuary. Wasn't worth it. There is a world of difference between sharing feelings and dumping your emotional baggage on someone and expecting them to carry, solve and be responsible for your problems. It's fine to feel hurt. I would be if someone did this to me.


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## Sovereign (Aug 19, 2011)

ColoradoGrrrl said:


> I think the biggest thing that tells me I am actually and ENTJ and not an ENFJ despite sharing some similar strengths is the whole Extraverted Feeling function.
> 
> For instance: "*The ENFJ may feel quite lonely even when surrounded by people. This feeling of aloneness may be exacerbated by the tendency to not reveal their true selves.*
> 
> ...


If you want to find your type, find your biggest weakness. For an ENTJ, it's radical, uncontrollable emotion that requires subconscious, and sometimes conscious, effort to suppress. It can strike at random, and leave you a sobbing heap at inconvenient times. Since that's the thing you're pretty much deathly afraid of, it causes a resolve to redouble the emotional repression so that your effectiveness is not so hampered with any frequency. This repression causes the avoidance of emotional situations that might spark it, and possibly the complete dismissal of emotions in general as being valid or legitimate in your mind. 

If this isn't at least somewhat accurate, I'd say you're probably another type. Look for your greatest failings. The things that you struggle against daily. Example: Mine is spatial/detail-related organization and remembering stuff (or to do stuff). I lose so much shit. All my shit is in piles, or is sitting out where I last used it. I can't ever find receipts to save my life. I get my ISFJ mom, who lives in another town, to save every important document I get in. I can't remember anything anyone tells me for more than 15 minutes unless they send an email. I do everything at the last possible minute. The struggle is real. Thus, I'm probably an ENTP (or an INTJ, possibly). Although this typing system of boxes is a bit dubious itself....


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## Sovereign (Aug 19, 2011)

ColoradoGrrrl said:


> Dear Feeling Types,
> 
> Tread lightly my feeling-type friends when you emote with your thinking-type friends... to us that is a sign of intimacy, because for us feelings are shared with VERY few people (especially if that person is an ENTJ or INTJ). We have feelings, deep feelings, powerful feelings, but you may not even be aware of them because we share them with so few people. When we routinely allow you space in our lives to share your feelings it creates a certain level of intimacy and if you aren't willing to allow that same level of emotional intimacy in return that is the most painful kind of rejection and hurt to us. One sided sharing of feelings is just selfish, emotional narcissism. So with a thinker, keep your feelings to yourself unless you are really ready, willing and able to be the deep kind of friend that we can also share our feelings with. Don't expect me to walk through your deepest hurts, your struggles with moral failings, and highest joys with you and then turn around and not be there for me. Please and thank you.
> 
> ...


I agree, and completely understand. We need to come with a manual.


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## ColoradoGrrrl (Jan 8, 2016)

Sovereign said:


> If you want to find your type, find your biggest weakness. For an ENTJ, it's radical, uncontrollable emotion that requires subconscious, and sometimes conscious, effort to suppress. It can strike at random, and leave you a sobbing heap at inconvenient times. Since that's the thing you're pretty much deathly afraid of, it causes a resolve to redouble the emotional repression so that your effectiveness is not so hampered with any frequency. This repression causes the avoidance of emotional situations that might spark it, and possibly the complete dismissal of emotions in general as being valid or legitimate in your mind.
> 
> If this isn't at least somewhat accurate, I'd say you're probably another type. Look for your greatest failings. The things that you struggle against daily. Example: Mine is spatial/detail-related organization and remembering stuff (or to do stuff). I lose so much shit. All my shit is in piles, or is sitting out where I last used it. I can't ever find receipts to save my life. I get my ISFJ mom, who lives in another town, to save every important document I get in. I can't remember anything anyone tells me for more than 15 minutes unless they send an email. I do everything at the last possible minute. The struggle is real. Thus, I'm probably an ENTP (or an INTJ, possibly). Although this typing system of boxes is a bit dubious itself....


I'd say that is definitely accurate of me... though, again, I have gotten more in touch with my feelings over the years (and that is healthy development for an ENTJ - http://personalityjunkie.com/entj-profile/) but I'm still learning how to deal with them effectively now that I have the EQ to at least indentify what they are and not just pretend they don't exist. (Which, as a kid I think I definitely did and so my emotions definitely came out in weird times and places - and often as anger) ... but this is still sometimes true of me: "At midlife onward, the ENTJ’s focus turns toward the inferior function, Introverted Feeling. The underdeveloped Introverted Feeling of ENTJs comes out in a childish and undeveloped way when under stress, so the ENTJ becomes extremely emotional or feel uncontrollable depression." (Myers & Briggs â€¢ The Unique Growth Path of the ENTJFrom Childhood...)

Right now in particular, since I'm dealing with the loss of my dad... I find a waffle almost daily between feeling like myself and capable of getting down to business and with the flip side of being a sad, on edge, mess that could just start crying at any moment - and I HATE crying in public... 

But I met with a counselor today (because I decided that it would be worthwhile to do grief counseling because I know that I am not handling my emotions well and don't feel like I've ever really been given the tools to do better) and he was saying that taping into and learning through those inferior functions like my Se and Fi would possibly the most helpful in the long run.

So yeah, all that to say, I feel like I have a good deal of empathy for others and am pretty in touch with my own feelings now as an adult - but I still can tend to repress rather than express them because they make me feel vulnerable. And that's something I am learning to do better at.


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## Westy365 (Jun 21, 2012)

Dear @ColoradoGrrrl,

I'm really sorry you got burned. Whoever didn't allow you to reciprocate your feelings after pouring out theirs sounds like an immature, whiny little [insert insulting noun of your choice here]. If anyone tries to crush your feelings so insensitively again, may they face the wrath of 1000 feelers. :angry:

You aren't worthless, and your feelings do matter. Please don't let a few insensitive jerks ruin trusting others for you. 

(Here's an e-hug and some sunshine) :sun-smiley:

Sincerely, a caring ENFJ! :kitteh:


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