# ISFJ?ESFJ?xxxP?



## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

*1) What aspect of your personality made you unsure of your type?*I don't really fit any type's stereotypes perfectly.I can make myself relate to whatever I want to relate to,but after few months I start doubting again.I also change a lot,today I read some of my old questionnaire answers and I was like "Did I really write that???"

*2) What do you yearn for in life? Why?*
I'm a mixture of enneagram 2,3 and 4,so this would sum it up well:

2
Basic Drive: To make their ideal image into a reality
Basic Fear: Unworthiness of Love
Basic Desire: Unconditional Love
Freudian Association: Superego*

3
Basic Drive: To be successful
Basic Fear: Worthlessness
Basic Desire: Value to Others
Freudian Association: Id*

4
Basic Drive: Isolation vs. Connection
Basic Fear: Loss of Identity
Basic Desire: Uniqueness
Freudian Association: Ego


*3) Think about a time where you felt like you were at your finest. Tell us what made you feel that way.*
It's usually the times I got closer to what's described in answer to previous question.I also feel really good while doing some 'simple' things,like listening to loud music,going to crowded and happy places(popular beaches,city,fairs,stuff like Disneyland,etc.),eating and similar.

*4) What makes you feel inferior?*The opposite of what makes me feel at my finest.So,people not reacting to me well or disrespecting me,people having negative feeling or being pessimistic,doing nothing and going nowhere.
I also hate being forced to think about facts and what has to be done.Like this year my family was so obsessed about me going to college.They always asked bunch of questions and told me "Do some research","Think carefully" and it was so stressful and annoying because I don't even wanna go to college(I'm going though) and even if I did wanna go I wouldn't be thinking that much about it.

*5) What tends to weigh on your decisions? (Do you think about people, pro-cons, how you feel about it, etc.)*Usually people or how I feel about it atm.Often my decisions are influenced by my laziness to a degree.For example,I don't pay for bus and tram ticket(It's relatively normal in my country lol).I tried to rationalize it by saying it's too expensive compared to other countries,but in reality I just don't feel like staying in a row for hours and doing all the paperwork for year ticket,especially since they rarely check tickets here and even when they do I get myself out of punishment.
When it comes to decisions like clothes,hair color and similar,they are mostly based on how I think people would react and my stubborness.If I imagine myself with a certain hair color and like it,eventually I will get it no matter how high-maintainance,damaging and hard to match with clothes it may be.
With many decisions it's just about what people will think.I sometimes impulsively ignore it though and then try to lie my way out of problems.

*6) When working on a project what is normally your emphasis? Do you like to have control of the outcome?*
What's the project?
If it's REALLY important and I'm with people less capable than I am then I take control and make sure everything goes well.
If everyone seems capable then I just try to have fun,make everything less serious and see how it goes.I still don't like people ignoring my suggestions though.
If it's not too important I just have fun and don't really care about work that much

*7) Describe us a time where you had a lot of fun. How is your memory of it?Look at answer to third question XD
I also like getting lost,like with a car at night and stuff,it's exciting.

I can never come up with clear examples when I'm asked to.

8) When you want to learn something new, what feels more natural for you? (Are you more prone to be hands on, to theorize, to memorize, etc)I'm not sure,I rarely wanna learn things enough to actually start trying to learn them lol.
I usually just read bits of information,think about it a bit and talk to someone about it if possible.I hate reading lots of information,having to think really hard or memorizing bunch of things(although I'm capable of all of that).It's the easiest for me to discuss it with people and get them to give me bits of info at the time so we can slowly work from there and come to our own conclusions before reading everything there is to read.

9) How organized do you to think of yourself as?I'm pretty disorganized.I'm only organized when I feel it will make me seem or become more capable.I tend to become overly perfectionistic when I try to be more organized,everything needs to look nice and be in perfect order.

10) How do you judge new ideas? You try to understand the principles behind it to see if they make sense or do you look for information that supports it?I don't think about ideas much.I guess that on the surface I either completely embrace them or reject them,but on the inside they can get me confused sometimes if they are different from what I used to think.I think I try to find information that supports it.

11) You find harmony by making sure everyone is doing fine and belonging to a given group or by making sure that you follow what you believe and being yourself?Both.I don't necessarily want everyone getting along (I like a bit of drama lol),but I definitely wanna belong to a group(even if I wanna stand out in some way).I don't know what phrase 'being yourself' means tbh.

12) Are you the kind that thinks before speaking or do you speak before thinking? Do you prefer one-on-one communication or group discussions?
I'm very shy and insecure in some situations and in groups I often feel overshadowed and I absolutely hate it.I often get self-conscious and overthink,but I don't really need time to get my thoughts in order or anything like that.

13) Do you jump into action right away or do you like to know where are you jumping before leaping? Does action speaks more than words?'Thinking' for me usually means "I don't wanna do it".It can also be just so people would think I'm not being impulsive.I sometimes make a decision,but pretend I'm thinking or even convince myself I'm thinking,but that decision is actually already made.
I don't think actions always speak louder than words.People sometimes have good intentions and wanna do good,but do the opposite.It doesn't make much difference when the thing's done,but still,it should be taken into account.

14) It's Saturday. You're at home, and your favorite show is about to start. Your friends call you for a night out. What will you do?Probably go,if I'm not in some depressive,asocial mode.In most cases I'd be happy to go.I'd only be mad at them if they called half an hour before going,but then I'd make them wait.

15) How do you act when you're stressed out?
I come to PerC to introspect and try to figure out weird things like cognitive functions lol.
I also get irritable,cry,think I'm not good-enough.
Other things can happen too,it really depends on what kind of stressed it is.

16) What makes you dislike the personalities of some people?People who are boring to talk to and talk about,definitely.
I also don't like people who are kinda more 'intellectual' and like talking about non-everyday things too often and in too much depth or give monologues about their favourite subject completely unaware and even angry that other people don't care that much about it.
Other thing I don't like is when people worry too much and are always negative and complaining about everything.

17) Is there anything you really like talking about with other people?Typical girl stuff,plus psychology related things at times.I like different things in different situations,a BIT of everything is fine.I only don't like it when people get stuck on one subject for hours.

18) What kind of things do pay the least attention to in your life?Not sure.Maybe getting ready for being an adult and living on my own in general,things like chores and other responsibilities.I also don't care about knowing things/being highly educated,I'm fine as long as I know enough to not embarrass myself.

19) How do your friends perceive you? What is wrong about their perception? ? What would your friends never say about your personality ?They percieve me as braver,more confident and more capable than I really am,if they knew how often I'm on the verge of suicide they'd be very,very surprised.
No one would ever think I could be some kind of SJ.

20) You got a whole day to do whatever you like. What kind of activities do you feel like doing?Does it have to be realistic?Can I,for example,go first to Hawaii and then to Tokyo all in one day?If that's the case I can't even image what I'd do.
If it has to be possible then I'd probably wake up around 8 am,go shopping with someone,go to the beach or swimming pool,go get my hair done and then go to some party or club.*


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## something987 (Jul 20, 2014)

2. I'm guessing you're a type 3, with a balance of wings 2 and 4. There are such things as tritypes, but 2 3 and 4 are all heart types, and tritypes are composed of one type from each of head, heart, and body. That being said, type 3 is often associated with S types, but this would just be a guess.
3. I wonder if by simple, you mean things that involve the senses rather than stimulate your mind? If so, this would be more evidence for S.
4. Fi
5. Si? Or Se...
6. Maybe Se again
7. Se
8. Te
13. Ni?
16. S
17. Ne?
18. Possibly Se
19. I'm sorry you feel this way, please know that learning your type and why/how you interact with and interpret the world around you can really help you understand your depression. It won't solve it, but it might give you some insight as to why some things affect you more than others. Knowing your personality and accepting it, rather than trying to change it to fit others, can help a lot.
20. Maybe Se again

This is kind of a hard one for me. If I weren't mistaken, I would actually say you might be an ESFP, which is one of the most extroverted personalities. Your answers seem like you are extroverted, but have a bad case of social anxiety perhaps, and this might explain why you are depressed (though I don't want to make assumptions, so if I am please forgive me). P.S. The person in your profile pic is an ESFP.


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

I now think I'm a 2 though,sp 2 seems to fit sooo well,it's the only thing that would fit in every period of my life.I also relate to 3 and 4 though(3 is my wing and they say sp2 can be a bit like 4).I think other parts of my tritype are 6 and 9w8.

Yeah,simple in my case is more senses oriented.It's the kind of things when I don't worry about how I'm perceived and just enjoy myself.

I thought for a long time that I could be ESFP,but I think I have Si(also see myself in Se though) and I totally don't get Ni.I also think I have Ti because I always have my own definitions of things and summed up versions of everything and think of everything through those things instead of using real facts,I hate working with facts as they are.I do have some of the Te speaking style,but I make it funny and cute lol.



> Your answers seem like you are extroverted, but have a bad case of social anxiety perhaps, and this might explain why you are depressed (though I don't want to make assumptions, so if I am please forgive me). P.S. The person in your profile pic is an ESFP.


You're right,I am depressed (mostly) because of that.
I thought she could be ESFP.We're probably something similar.


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## TyranAmiros (Jul 7, 2014)

Well, I think you're definitely ESFx, but I'll argue for ESFJ, just to throw more water into the fire. The way you talk about college, doing it because others want you to, speaks to me as Fe-dominant. I'm getting a Ti-inferior sense as well from the way you discuss your struggles with thinking about things. 

As for Si vs. Se and Ni vs. Ne, one thing that speaks to me as an argument for Si-Ne is that you're pretty practical and pragmatic when it comes to the sensory experiences you desire. And I get a strong Si feel from questions 16-18 in that you want to be perceived as normal.


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

I just can't imagine telling my family "I'm not going to college" and tbh part of me thinks "If you aren't going to college what else can you do?" because I've been brainwashed into thinking college is the only option.
I'm happy I'm going though,I hope to meet some new friends who could help me figure out what I could do later.I'm also planning on getting a part time job to see how that works out.

It's funny how I wanna be perceived as normal,but at the same sometimes intentionally act crazy,maybe it's a control thing(letting it out so it wouldn't slip accidentally when I least expect it).I do hate the idea of being just plain weird or like those people I described in question 16,only few people can pull it off.
And I often wanna repeat the exact same experience and can kinda feel it inside without actually sensing it.And I can be pretty picky about things like new food.I like some new things,but they need to be somewhat safe.For example,I can experiment with ice creams and every time I order a different flavour(my goal is to try each of them once) because I know they all are more or less edible.With things that can potentially be really bad/look ugly I don't ever take a risk no matter what anyone says to me.


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## TyranAmiros (Jul 7, 2014)

I think you're an ESFJ, but what do you think of ESFP vs. ESFJ? Does one description resonate more?


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

ESFP is obviously far more relaxed and spontaneous and I can relate to that,but at the same time I'm not sure if I'm THAT spontaneous really or just trying to be.I can definitely relate to both of them,but I can also relate to many other types.I can eve relate to ISFJ although I chose it because it seem to be like ESFJ,but I felt like more of an introvert atm(I'm with my mom in a foreign country in a village and not doing anything,there's no people my age at all so I often feel very introverted because of isolation).
An interesting thing is that I'm a lot like my grandma in things that are related to functions and she is most likely an ESFJ,the only difference between us is I'm more self-aware,probably because of lots of free time and the fact my dad always pushed me to think and ask myself why when it comes to stuff like that.He always jokingly (she's difficult lol) said that I should be my grandma's daughter because we'd get along great.

I can't help feeling like a P though,although I know it hasn't got much to do with organization and similar.


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## Grain of Sugar (Sep 17, 2013)

I personally thought Fe in question 13, because I hear a lot of Fi users say that actions matter more. I guess this could be individually.


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## something987 (Jul 20, 2014)

Living dead said:


> I just can't imagine telling my family "I'm not going to college" and tbh part of me thinks "If you aren't going to college what else can you do?" because I've been brainwashed into thinking college is the only option.
> I'm happy I'm going though,I hope to meet some new friends who could help me figure out what I could do later.I'm also planning on getting a part time job to see how that works out.
> 
> It's funny how I wanna be perceived as normal,but at the same sometimes intentionally act crazy,maybe it's a control thing(letting it out so it wouldn't slip accidentally when I least expect it).I do hate the idea of being just plain weird or like those people I described in question 16,only few people can pull it off.
> And I often wanna repeat the exact same experience and can kinda feel it inside without actually sensing it.And I can be pretty picky about things like new food.I like some new things,but they need to be somewhat safe.For example,I can experiment with ice creams and every time I order a different flavour(my goal is to try each of them once) because I know they all are more or less edible.With things that can potentially be really bad/look ugly I don't ever take a risk no matter what anyone says to me.


This is actually a Si thing, so I would change my assessment to ESFJ


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

What's a Si thing?Grandma comparison?


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## something987 (Jul 20, 2014)

Sorry, I misquoted! Fixed it. The not wanting to the new things unless they have some familiarity to you.

*"And I often wanna repeat the exact same experience and can kinda feel it inside without actually sensing it.And I can be pretty picky about things like new food.I like some new things,but they need to be somewhat safe."*


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

Yeah,seemed a bit Si to me,I think I even read in some Si/Ne in ESxJ description example of someone being like me with wanting to try everything on their favourite restaurant's menu.


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## something987 (Jul 20, 2014)

Yeah, I used to do that too, haha. I even kept the menus and highlighted all the good foods in one color and bad foods in another. Some sort of inferior Si thing maybe, who knows.


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

That inferior function thing is confusing me.I can sometimes use all of my functions in ways that would suggest they are inferior.


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## something987 (Jul 20, 2014)

Yeah, I think we do that when we are stressed out or depressed though. I find I do that too. I overwhelm myself with Ne possibilities and then can worry about everything that could happen. You're probably seeing your shadow type come out when this happens, which for you would be INTP. It's all of your functions in reverse order.


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

That makes more sense than just Ti taking over,Ti is just kinda leading that mess of functions.It's probably better having extroverted inferior,then you think less when depressed.

So,most likely ESFJ?
I think I can finally rest on that,at least for now lol.I changed my type sooooo many times.ESFP,ISFP(Fi DOM???),ESTP,ENFP,ENFJ,ESFJ,ENTP,ISFJ.I started off as I
xNTJ:laughing:
I was (sometimes a bit) like that only in my head though.
How long did you need to find yours?I'd guess strong Ne makes things like that harder.

Btw,could you please help me with enneagram just a tiny bit?I think I'm a very weird 2 but I'm not sure and people on enneagram forum aren't responding.


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## something987 (Jul 20, 2014)

Haha, yes, I would say likely ESFJ. I also mistyped myself a lot as INTX. Those are the most introverted types, so maybe that's why - depression causing extreme introversion. I dono.

It took me a couple weeks to find mine, but I was learning about new stuff every day, reading up on it all. I thought I had been Introverted, that was the only thing I was sure of, but then none of the I types seemed to fit me exactly right. And definitely the Ne makes it harder, haha. I can link my behavior to all the personality types if I try.

Enneagram is more about what motivates you than your cognitive functions, I think. Everyone has a tritype, so one type from the head, heart,and body. Your main type is who you are most of the time, your growth type is who you are when you're at your best, and your stress type is self explanatory. So for example my type is 9, my stress type is 6, my growth type is 3. They don't all have to be evenly spaced out like that, though. You could be, say, a 251. I'm not sure how people determine the orders of the number but I don't think it's important.


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## TyranAmiros (Jul 7, 2014)

Ti is your inferior function, which gives you a love-hate relationship with it. Fe, my inferior function, makes me go to social situations where I'm not comfortable at all. 

Enneagram is more about your basic instincts and motivations rather than how you think and process information. The main question is what do you when you're stressed?


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

I don't think order is too important either.I think that my head fix is in the middle though and I believe it's 6.It could be 5w4 though.
Do you think that integration/disintegration thing is always correct?I'm pretty sure I'm not a 1 and I get like an unhealthy 4 when stressed,but it's different from how ones experience disintegration.



> And definitely the Ne makes it harder, haha. I can link my behavior to all the personality types if I try.


I do that too.Not at first usually though.First my Si makes sure I only take in info that corresponds with what it SHOULD correspond.Then after a while I get bored and too curious and just can't resist looking further into it.


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

TyranAmiros said:


> Ti is your inferior function, which gives you a love-hate relationship with it. Fe, my inferior function, makes me go to social situations where I'm not comfortable at all.
> 
> Enneagram is more about your basic instincts and motivations rather than how you think and process information. The main question is what do you when you're stressed?


Hide,attention-seek,act out,philosophise and overthink,think about suicide,think everything will be all right eventually because killing myself will surely attract attention and similar.


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## TyranAmiros (Jul 7, 2014)

I think 3w4 is my rough guess. Types 2-4 comprise the Feeling Triad, types for whom despair/sadness serve as their primary instinctual response to stress. 4s turn their despair inwards and feel that they're not understood, that they're alone in the world. 2s project their despair outwards by latching on to other people's happiness and success to replace their own insecurity. But 3s are an avoidance type, like 6s and 9s, because they tend to consciously ignore their own unhappiness by turning to an external measure (in this case, doing something worthwhile, succeeding in live by objective means). 3 is a very common Enneagram type for ESFJ--in fact, all Judging-dominants--according to Riso, and for ESFJs, 2 and 3 are the most common Enneagram types. 

The way you speak about doing things because others want you to do them is also a common things with Enneagram 3s. See, Enneagram 3s integrate toward 6 and disintegrate toward 9: when pushed toward stressors, they have the doormat-like qualities of a 9 and the fear of uncertainty of a 6, but at their best, they have the moral purpose and strength of conviction of a 6 and the 9's ability to bring people together.


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

The thing is,I don't feel I'm ambitious enough in sense of wanting real accomplishments,I don't think I need success to be important,I just need to BE.I doubt being successful would make me happy or even proud.


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## something987 (Jul 20, 2014)

Have you taken an enneagram test yet? Or did you decide your type by reading up on all of them individually?

There are some good tests here, perhaps they would be helpful:

SimilarMinds.com > Personality Tests

I'm not as well versed in enneagram yet, but your wanting to just "be" strikes me as either a 4 or a 9 type.


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

I decided by reading and questionnaires here.
I'm not good with tests,I'm a big liar lol.
And they are very stressful for me.
I think I did this one a while ago though and I got 3 and 4 at the top.I usually get 3 and 4.

I think just "being" could be 4.I mean,I don't wanna "just be" in sense of "just living" or something like that.I wanna "be" rather than "do".I wanna be the person who people admire,love,hate,find interesting,wanna spend time with or whatever,I don't care about what job I have or how many degrees or anything similar.


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## something987 (Jul 20, 2014)

Ah I getcha, I hate taking the tests too but mostly because I get bored after 20 or so questions. That sounds like a 4 to me.


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

So,you think I'm a 4 after all?
I only find it weird that I never thought about 'identity' before one stressful situation in my life.I mean,I wanted to be an attractive person,but it wasn't tied to the idea of identity and I don't get the idea of being scared of losing my identity.I'm not sure how literally should I take the word 'fear' though.


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

This is from one of my threads.

I used to think I was 3w4 sx/so or 4w3 so/sx because some behaviours and associated traits fit me well,but when I read the basic desires and fears of 3 and 4 it just doesn't make sense.I mean,why would someone FEAR not being unique or losing their identity?Two's fear is way more understandable.Then I read some things about sp 2 and it sounded exactly like something my parents would say about me both now and when I was a child.3 is something I'm trying to be,but I don't really build my identity on actual accomplishments.4 is what I sometimes resemble,mostly for fun or when things are bad and I have to stay positive("Screw all,I'll kill myself,it'll end up in newspaper and the whole country will cry" kind of thing lol),I never really wanted an identity before I felt I lost love,I guess(there was a big change in my life few years ago).

The only problem is,I'm not exactly what you'd call helpful,I'm probably far below average in helpfulness.Seriously,I never do anything around house and always avoid work as much as possibleroudYeah,I used the correct smiley lol)
I am helpful in certain situations though,like when someone needs advice about something or some sort of favour that's bigger and more personal than washing dishes.I'd actually rather do things for others that require time and effort.I just don't do anything on command,I get very angry when people are being bossy.


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## something987 (Jul 20, 2014)

Type four is big on individuality and being unique. The fear of losing their identity is more like a fear of becoming average or indistinguishable from everyone else. They pride themselves on their unique interests, personality traits, perhaps even dress or change their look so as to stand out. Things like this.


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

I can relate to that in some ways,but not in others,not sure how to explain it.I relate to 4's romantic nature and being a bit dramatic,I'm a hopeless romantic in sense that I wanna find someone who adores me so we can live happily ever after.I used to be a huge Twilight fan few years ago:blushed:
I also wanna be special,but not really unique or original,I wanna be important to people.
I still feel something is missing to be a 4 though,I'm not sure what it is.


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## something987 (Jul 20, 2014)

Perhaps you're not 4, then. Are there any other types you identify with? Outside of 2, 3, or 4?


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

I can relate to 6(a bit lf everything really,feels like it could be my head fix but not my dominant) and 8(control freak,like having some sort of power in situations,hate being told what to do but kinda like telling people what to do lol).The types I can't relate to at all are 1,5(well,a bit,but nowhere enough),9 and 7 is highly unlikely.


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## something987 (Jul 20, 2014)

Maybe your tritype is some combo of 4, 6, and 8 then. Here's the description for those:

468 – The Truth Teller Archetype

468 – The Truth Teller Archetype



These 2 tritypes come across as very different because the 8 in the 486 makes the 6 counter phobic and therefore comes across as more aggressive. The 469 comes across as more passive aggressive.
The 468 reacts and rings the alarm to prevent makind a mistake to calm down and the 469 doubts and procrastinates to avoid making a mistake.... To calm down.

*most reactive-468, 864, 648

The 468 is constantly calling off truth as they see it and sees it as their business to warn people of the potential downfalls and pitfalls in the emotional and mental world. It's the type in each center that is "truth telling" and tends to be the most reactive, even hyperreactive. She said it's typically sexual subtype, but she's seen social too. There's a tendency to feel an acute sense of disappointment because their incredibly acuity at seeing the problems ahead or the potential pitfalls of any situation causes people to misunderstand their reactivity and emotionality.

If you are 468, you are intuitive, inquisitive and direct. You want to be original, certain and straight-forward. You are highly sensitive, track inconsistencies and are like the ‘canary in the coal mine’ calling off unspoken agendas, motives and emotions. You are also very intense and can at times be rebellious and emotionally reactive. Your life mission is to identify what is insincere and not what it appears to be, and alert others of potential hazards. A whistleblower, you are happiest when you are in a position to help others from being misled. You can be so focused on what can go wrong and on potential hazards that you miss how controlling you become and your impact on others and what is truly important and meaningful.

468...intensity

where 468 push for a response while 459 move away.

You have all three Immediate Responder Enneacards
(Enneagram Types: 4, 6 & 8) in your Enneaspread.
You see yourself as intense, responsive, challenging and instinctive. You avoid insincerity and people with hidden agendas. Like a canary in a coal mine, you are sensitive to what others miss. You tend to react strongly to pretense, seeking to call off the truth before moving forward.

I was asked the differences between the 361, the 368 and the 369 tritypes. Since the question is which gut type is dominant. At a glance, it is most helpful to look at activity levels. The 361 is very industrious and busy doing to avoid anxiety, the 1 brings a need to do what is morally correct. The 368 is focused on fighting for justice, the 8 brings a need to overcome and prevail. The 369 is highly adaptable and focused on being in comfortable alignment with others.

the 468 is a true challenger and truth teller. The 4 may be shy but this Tritype is very intense and reactive--quick to speak their mind. The 485 is the true intellectual that has strong opinions about their feelings and thoughts but less reactivity. Sexual instinct with 4 dominant makes both tritypes more intense. The 468, however, is more dutiful and feisty whereas the 458 is one of the tritypes that lives in their head researching and following their own muse.

As a sx468, It will feel counter-intuitive but you can learn ways to manage the anxiety that is underneath the reactivity. When you feel threatened and the fear of being inadequate rises, take a long deep breath and exhale....first...It is simply your adrenaline running and filling you with emotional anxiety. It is emotional panic and fear of isolation, blame, abandonment and/or separation. It feels life threatening so remind yourself that the intense feelings will decrease... stay connected to your gut and you will feel more connected to yourself. That way you can deliver your truth of the message and be heard rather than becoming the problem.
4s in general hold the archetype of the mystery, the erotic feminine principle, chaos, beauty, tragedy, and most of all the role of emotional familiarity. The 468 is meant to name the emotional truth that is unspoken and therefore missing and to go on a quest to find it.

Each Enneagram Type has a trap, a hook so to speak. The trap for the 468 to believe that your identity is tied to what you name and to need others to acknowledge it or believe it. If you hold on to the higher truth of your intuitive insights rather than your feelings surrounding them, more and more, they will flow through you to the right person, at the right time. I have found the 468 to be at times one of the most challenging Tritypes but more importantly, by far one of the most sensitive, intuitive, compassionate and heroic.

The 468 has a counter-phobic 6 and.... the 4 is counter-envious... as in...they hate being envious and try to contain their their negative emotions. The problem is that the 468 is impulsive and emotional....often confronting before they think about it.

The 486 is much more assertive that the 416. The 461 tends to being very critical of themselves to avoid being criticized. This tritype is very particular The 416 hesitates and the 486 impulsively reacts. A perceived threat to the primary instinct triggers the tritype.

‎846 vs 845. These two tritypes are very different. Both take charge and seek solutions. The 846 is one of the most confrontational tritypes. The other is the 836. The 6 amplifies the 8 need for loyalty and trust. The 845 is more introverted and introspective. The 854 has 5 as a line of connection as well as in the tritype and makes this 8 more scholarly and focused on depth.

4-6-8 - The Hot Head

This type is characterize by their reactivity. The tend to initiate conflict and take offense easily. They me feel that everyone is out to get them.

468 - Inquisitive and direct 4. Most rebellious, reactive and direct 4, especially if sexual subtype.

The 458 is an active archetype...just more withdrawn...not passive like the librarian... more the expert as they gather knowledge but have a very definite point of view like the 478 and 468.

Other persistent tritypes are the 125, 145, 468. Aggression with tenacity or persistences makes one able to be relentless in their pursuits.

The 468 has the instinctual, emotional type in each center. And, there is a need to call off the truth of what is unspoken. I find the 468 to be very persistent... relentlessly so when seeking whatever ignites their passion

eight with a four fix: the moody, loner eight. distinct outsider quality; as if on a highly
personal mission. tendency to feel exempt from conventional rules
and circumstances.

6-4-8 Direct and intuitive 6, most reactive and feelingful, most rebellious tends to vacillate between feeling 8ish or 4ish.

Another example would be a 4-6-8. Here we have a more aggressive and reactive Type 4 than say a 4-9-5, who would be more withdrawn, passive (9) and avoidant (5).

The 468 is always visible as this tritype shoots from the hip and voices their concerns and opinions. They are the truth tellers.

I'm a 468. I'm direct, as I find this is the best way to communicate my feelings, or myself to others (being as sensitive as I am, I try my best to be compassionate, or not step anyone's toes while doing this. My mom says this makes me articulate). I feel confident in certain areas, but not so much in others (though I'd die if anyone knew that.) Others have told me I am funny, and seem tough (though I cry at the drop of the hat.) I'm a good judge of character, and am very intuitive. I can tell when people are dishonest or not how they want to seem, and it frustrates me when others do not see things from my perspective. If a friend undermines my judgment, I feel betrayed, and they seem disloyal. I find my biggest struggle is feeling hypersensitive. I can recognize when I'm being that way, but if something upsets me, it's often an incredibly overwhelming and powerful feeling that I feel I can't just put aside. At the time, I feel reacting is standing up for myself, but I later feel badly for hurting someone else.

In that case is much more possible the 468 because adds an intensity in 6 that makes it look like a 4.

Sx 4s, 6s and 8s can all be pretty [blocked due to guideline #4 violation]ing ruthless in their extermination of foes; take a sx 684 and you have a veritable pit bull, someone who potentially sees extermination as their mission. And given the truth telling nature of that tritype and sx/so (at least their truth), that tendency is also compounded. (Truth telling= extermination of lies)

I think all the emotion and reactivity of the 684 tritype and the passion and impulsiveness of sx/so is more than enough to over-ride the typical 6w5 characteristics of caution and consideration.

As a 468, I find it tough to be up all the time. I see the darkness, the shadow, that the emperor has no clothes, I see the truth behind the persona, the lie we tell collectively to avoid the pain underneath...

When the 4 and 6 are in the tritype there is more negativity as a strategy to prevent making a mistake that will bring shame, blame and criticism. This is most true of the 461 and then 468 and then the 469.

Has anyone else with this tritype had trouble letting things go?
When I finally got that I was a 6 I was able to see how I tested and provoked all the time. Finding out that I am a 684 really helped me to see even more.
Most of the time, I am playful and teasing. I watch 8 come in and push my 6 even more into justice issues. I am super loyal, too a fault. I like to have fun but I can be trouble now and then. I get that 4 is my heart type so I can be over the top at times. My emotions take over and it happens so fast that it is hard to manage my tendency to blurt. I call a spade a space which is why I thought I was an 8. I can see that I also need depth and meaning and am moody like a 4.
When they all come together in reaction I am way too intense for people. I still fight this tendency.

I also know a sp/sx 6w7 684. He's probably the most independent 6 I've ever known. Could be mistaken for an 8. His reactivity and intensity comes out much more in his actions and the sp hides a lot of it from view. You see the consequences of his reactivity rather than the reactivity itself.

Rebelling, reacting, and defending. (4-6-8)

Being a 468 and with the sexual instinctive center I find myself in a constant exploration of truth, and I find I discover my truth most profoundly in meaningful,open,intimate,honest connections that serve this higher purpose and not the relationship itself. It is the honest healthy mirroring that propels this quest into an accelerated personal growth of enlightenment.

The sx 468 is very impacted by truth and speaking to what is hidden, unknown or unspoken. The intensity of the sx 468 puts this tritype on the fast track.

sp 468. Truth is fundamental in my life too, it requires calm, openness, free from mental noise or emotional reaction. Slow exploring and understanding. It feels like being free from emotional hooks and forget false views from the society without fighting them, to restore a peaceful and benevolent sense of my own goodness and truth at 1. After that I can become really happy and powerful at helping others by simply explaining what I've understood about life.

The 458, 468 and 478 are all truth tellers in their own way. The 468 is the one that is hyper reactive and still seeks a fair authority.

as an Ennea-type 8 with a tritype of 846, the 4 heart fix plays out in an 8ish way. You still see the 8's motivations driving the 4, but the outward appearance of the defense mechanisms or behaviors becomes 4ish in nature when the heart fix gains prominence. This would be the same for the head fix.

468. As a 4, I don't like doing things. I like living things. So I try to find the things in which doing becomes living. It's wrting novels, short stories, writing and recording music. What I like best is listenning to the result when it's, beautiful, touching, complete and magical. I'm my geatest fan. But also love learning from people that have gone further than me, in reading or talk. Now I develop an other mode of doing where discipline is focused on. This is training. I love training to play or sing as perfectly. as I can. I relax, concentrate, leave eveything behind. It's energizing and brings clarity and purity. In this mode, 6 disapear, 4 stops self absobtion. 1 rules.
I can't speak for other 486s, but I like ideas and the search for truth and meaning, which means I'm constantly searching for new information, constantly curious, and one train of thought leads to another. (I even speak in parenthetical notes!) However, I feel better about myself when I get up and do more physical tasks, such as doing artwork, gardening, organizing, or cooking. I also find that when it comes to my teaching career, I'm motivated more by calling than duty. The focus on reading and research in order to understand theoretical foundations, derive meaningful insights, and gain inspiration to share with students is my constant driving force. (i've got a big, strong 5 wing operating underground, too.)

684 The Truth Teller. Direct and intuitive 6. This is the most reactive, creative and feelingful 6. Highly rebellious, this 6 is almost always the counter-phobic 6 with a heroic nature. Generally this 6 vacillates between being 8ish or 4ish.

The core fears are of fear itself, danger, being alone, cowardice, submitting, deviance, uncertainty, being targeted, chaos, weakness, being controlled, disempowered, humiliated, vulnerable, at the mercy of injustice, being inadequate, emotionally cut off ordinary, commonplace, and abandoned.

Both 4s and 6s can be emotional. The questions is what are you emotional about? In terms of difficult behaviors...
6s identify a source to prove
4s identify a source to impress
648 reactive, edgy

The sx with 4 brings emotional intensity and a need for closeness with desired intimates...and, there is anger if intimacy is thwarted or denied. The 468 is impulsive and highly reactive... the focus is on immediate resolution. The 469 feels a great deal of doubt and in general is not as reactive. There is more of a tendency to hesitate, plan and prepare with more anxiety.

The 469 is more phobic than the 468.

As 4 is dominant, in addition to seeing themselves as intuitive and deep with a need for beauty and aesthetics....The 479s see themselves as loving, innovative and gentle, the 468 as intense and iconoclastic and the 469 as thoughtful and introspective.

The 468 feels more inclined to be the truth teller at all costs so they take greater risks

I'm pretty intense and reactive. Inside I carry alot of anger, shame, protectiveness, and courage. I have to take alot of deep breaths throughout the day to center myself...I'm willing to confront people which has gotten me in alot of trouble, if I have a conflict with someone I like it to be finished...I like things out in the open...I am very invested in what is really going on underneath the surface...so I'm thinking 468.

sexual instinct combined with the 6 and 8 brings a strong sense of justice and a great need for loyalty. The sx 468 craves and gives devotion. The 468's heart is broken if they feel unseen or invisible to those they are bonded to...it feels like a deep betrayal if they feel like their feelings don't matter. They can't move forward until they feel heard. David says love your 4, hate your 4 but don't ignore your 4. When hurt, this tritype can come across as an emotional 8.
I know that in an intimate relationship that I feel deeply hurt and betrayed when my partner doesn't validate what I see or feel. For example, I have said to boyfriends "that girl was flirting with you and she was disrespecting me." If my partner dismisses me, doesn't acknowledge what I know happened, then I am deeply wounded....I start attempting to drive my point home by getting louder or being persistent. I wanted him to let me know that my intuition was right and display to the girl that he was taken. I have found that it helps the 468 and the 4 in general to remember that others for the most part are not trying to be insensitive. They simply see the situation through a different lens. The key is to remember that as a 4, you know and feel things at a deep and intuitive level. But....it is also important to remember that you will feel much better about your circumstances when you put your insights into context ...Think of how the other person might be feeling based on their type and life experiences rather than your own. The trap for the 468 is to feel hurt by drawing the wrong conclusion from a disappointing interaction. Your intuitions are correct but your conclusion may be flawed if you haven't considered the context.... 

Do you feel angry with him and then angry with yourself for being angry? Most sexual 468 do....It triggers the feelings of being inadequate. Be kind to the part of you that feels insignificant to your mate. Remember who you are...find the way that you unconsciously denigrate your feelings. It may elude you, but it is always there for 4s. Your reality is real. Simply add the critical data that will remind you that you are whole and complete regardless of how you feel treated, It is a very tall order for any 4 or sexual subtype but especially for the sexual 468.  It can, however be the way back to your true self when you feel hurt and disoriented.
Don't be [angry/ashamed], it's the way you were made. And, that 4 intensity, when channeled, can change other's lives for the better. 4s are pioneers in their own way, and Sx4s can be very powerful. The fear of abandonment with 4s is very high, so they unconsciously over blame themselves for relationship issues. The more autonomous types have the opposite problem and need to become more self aware of their healthy dependencies and of their role in impacting others.


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

Sorry for taking this long to reply,it's soooo much text,I have trouble processing that much written info lol,I'll still have to think about some parts of it.Thanks though,it did clear some things up.
I'm definitely no 468,I'm not a truth seeker in any way and I doubt I have 6 as my head fix,I feel I'm too positive and relaxed for 6 only,let alone 4 and 6 together.I'd now say 7 is my head fix.I think it works well with 4 because 7 ignores the bad,but is still kinda aware of it and 4 does the dramatic storytelling and takes somewhat positive sides of bad things and turns them into something beautiful and impressive.That's what makes me never really feel that bad about stressfult things that I'm going through,I feel that they really don't exist to that degree or just don't matter as long as I'm not thinking about them and parts that are so obvious that I can't ignore them I try to beautify.

I'm not sure about gut fix though.9 is too mellow and 8 too hard and direct,4/8 combination just doesn't seem me from what I've read here.I have some 8 qualities though,could those be caused by some wing,possibly 9w8?


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## something987 (Jul 20, 2014)

So which ones have you for sure ruled out and which ones are you contemplating?


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

Heart fix:could be anything,probably 4 though
Head fix:7,most likely.I can imagine being 5 as well but not in combination with 4.
Gut fixrobably 9,less likely 8 and most definitely not 1

In that order(479 most likely,followed by 259)

Descriptions don't fit well though,but they rarely fit me perfectly.


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## something987 (Jul 20, 2014)

Here's a description, does this sound about right? I think it seems like it fits based on what you've said so far... Sorry if it's too long, I tried to cut out the unnecessary parts.

479 Gentle Spirit Archetype

This is the sort of sprite or fairy like tritype. There is a need to remain positive while still searching for meaning. The blindspot is that there is an attraction to magical thinking and missed opportunities to speak their truth so they find themselves glossing over negative feeling states in favor of something more comfortable or positive. When 4 is in charge there's a tendency to not see all the ways in which depression or sadness is evaded through this magical thinking process.

the life mission is that this is the true healer archetype. They are often found doing bodywork or other healing practices as these are the 3 types that have a desire to transform. They like to inspire people toward happiness through expressing their creativity in a peaceful non-intrusive way.

you are very identified with the defense of optimism and tend to hid your more painful feelings and pessimism for fear of being rejected. you see the wonder in beauty and are gentle, lyrical, and idealistic in the way you relate to others. you are attracted to the healing profession or arts.
your life mission is to identify what is truly meaningful in life and help people transform negative feeling into positive change. a true gentle spirit, you feel happiest when you have creative expression to reconnect with your innermost self and facilitate change.
your blind spot is that you can be so focused on ideal circumstances that you become trapped in magical thinking and fail to speak your higher truth and act in accordance with your true feelings.
your growing edge is to speak your truth even if it will create conflict with others. going along to get along or to keep things light and upbeat denies the truth of the moment and can cause you to become distant from yourself. higher love has a voice and true joy is not dependent on the image of being happy.

extremely uncomfortable with negativity in relationships. The 479 doesn't like it but expects it.

4 and 7 together combine to create a sense of the creative, intuitive, magical and imaginative. The gut type determines the flavor. 479s are elegant, wispy and ethereal. When 4 is dominant the 4 is reluctant to show their edgy, more negative emotions. The emphasis is on having an image that is deep but not seen as difficult. Suffering is more private.

The 479 Is positive outwardly but doesn't always feel it. The 479 report that they feel that if they show negative emotions they might be rejected.

The 479 with 4 dominant feels devastated by negative mirroring. If a flaw is pointed out if feels disheartening. With negative feedback, the 479 will have trouble holding on to their sense of self... Self esteem suffers as the 479's sens of self is too fluid and takes the shape of the last mirror.

479 do not realize how healing their gentle nature can be. Your life mission is to identify what is truly meaningful in life and help people transform negative feeling into positive change.
The 479 is more inclined to side step, make nice, and try to get along as conflict feel unbearable.

If you are a 479, you are intuitive, innovative and accepting. You want to be original, positive and peaceful. You are very identified with the defense of optimism and tend to hide your more painful feelings and pessimism for fear of being rejected. You see the wonder in beauty and are gentle, lyrical and idealistic in the way you relate to others.


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## something987 (Jul 20, 2014)

Here is the 259, but I don't think it fits you as well as the 479:

259 Problem Solver Archetype

If you are a 259, you are caring, knowledgeable and accepting. You want to be helpful, wise and peaceful. You have a very shy, gentle and reserved nature that focuses on what is harmonious. You need companionship and avoid loneliness by focusing on the needs and concerns of others.

Your life mission is to find the information needed to help others manage their difficulties. A true problem solver, you are happiest when you are able to be in the role of a good Samaritan and help others find solutions.

You can be so focused on the helpful information you have collected that you can be too passive and miss opportunities that would allow true presence. You also have great pride in giving to others but not needing them.

your growing edge is to recognize that hesitating too long and being passive to avoid conflict does not keep the peace. true harmony comes from being in attunement with what is essential and in tending to it what is needed and when it is needed.

2-5-9 - Because by 5-fix they rely on their experience to provide them with the rules which they can accomodate to, they expect a lot from the environment around them. Thus, this all combines to being incapable of admitting that they're environment has made a mistake (9-fix, it's uncomfortable to know that the thing you are relying on is unreliable. Or that it is impossible to accomodate to your environment, and thus be incapable of producing a "positive" image). For this reasons, 2-5-9s (and actually 2-9s really) have trouble admitting that there's something wrong with their environment, or have trouble blaming their environment for their issues. Logic mandates that if one is uncomfortable with where one is, one should run. And this might be exactly what a 2-9 may do. They may run from where they are to go to a place that they can more easily accomodate to. A problem may arise though when they can't really run from the truth. Running from the environment is in the end admitting that they can't accomodate to the rules of the environment. Thus, if this is something they aren't willing to accept, they may stay and try to learn more about their environment until it makes more coherent sense. In such a situation, as much as they'd like to flee, running is not an option.


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

479 fits very well.I mean,what's behind it fits well,not behaviours lol.
Sometimes I behave very non-peacefully.

This part fits perfectly


> The 479 with 4 dominant feels devastated by negative mirroring. If a flaw is pointed out if feels disheartening. With negative feedback, the 479 will have trouble holding on to their sense of self... Self esteem suffers as the 479's sens of self is too fluid and takes the shape of the last mirror.


This too:


> There is a need to remain positive while still searching for meaning. The blindspot is that there is an attraction to magical thinking and missed opportunities to speak their truth so they find themselves glossing over negative feeling states in favor of something more comfortable or positive. When 4 is in charge there's a tendency to not see all the ways in which depression or sadness is evaded through this magical thinking process.


From 259 this:


> Because by 5-fix they rely on their experience to provide them with the rules which they can accomodate to, they expect a lot from the environment around them. Thus, this all combines to being incapable of admitting that they're environment has made a mistake (9-fix, it's uncomfortable to know that the thing you are relying on is unreliable. Or that it is impossible to accomodate to your environment, and thus be incapable of producing a "positive" image). For this reasons, 2-5-9s (and actually 2-9s really) have trouble admitting that there's something wrong with their environment, or have trouble blaming their environment for their issues. Logic mandates that if one is uncomfortable with where one is, one should run. And this might be exactly what a 2-9 may do. They may run from where they are to go to a place that they can more easily accomodate to. A problem may arise though when they can't really run from the truth. Running from the environment is in the end admitting that they can't accomodate to the rules of the environment. Thus, if this is something they aren't willing to accept, they may stay and try to learn more about their environment until it makes more coherent sense. In such a situation, as much as they'd like to flee, running is not an option.


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

I feel like all of it is too actively peaceful and conflict avoidant though.Are all people with 9 fix like that?I can be quite aggressive if people are being aggressive to me.


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## something987 (Jul 20, 2014)

I'm a 9 and I can indeed be assertive when the situation needs it. But 9 is my main type. It's just your general temperament, of course when you are stressed other numbers will perhaps become more dominant or you will move to less healthy functions of your type. I would say you are a four though. This is a description of a slightly unhealthy type two: "Enveloping and possessive: the codependent, self-sacrificial person who cannot do enough for others—wearing themselves out for everyone, creating needs for themselves to fulfill." Ave very unhealthy two: "Can be manipulative and self-serving, instilling guilt by telling others how much they owe them and make them suffer. Abuse food and medication to "stuff feelings" and get sympathy. Undermine people, making belittling, disparaging remarks. Extremely self-deceptive about their motives and how aggressive and/or selfish their behavior is."


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