# Ni sensitive to mystery? Ne sensitive to possibilities? Let’s discuss.



## Llyralen (Sep 4, 2017)

I feel that Ni is very sensitive to mystery. Not in a “who done it?”way, although it could be, but I’d like to understand the experience of this more. I’d like to know if the draw towards mystery has to also do with predictability? Do you feel that the sensitivity to mystery is actually a sensitivity to predictability? Can you explain how you experience this?

In return I can offer some description of how I am sensitive to possibilities. I think examples are maybe the best way?
Let’s say that I am talking to an influential co-worker who tells me they agree with and like my work and let’s say that I am trying to get permission from a manager to do a project. My manager has made comments about wanting to be the same as other departments despite the fact that there is no department exactly like ours and that they have no experience with what I’m asking for. After having a very positive talk with the influential co-worker I also feel in a better position to explain my project to him, identify the costs and explain how my project would benefit our customers and basically I see that with his influence he might be the lynch-pin to talking to my manager about the need for the project despite my manager having no experience with this thing. I also think I will see if I can talk to other influential people who I know want this same project to happen. The manager will likely be more open hearing the same need identified by multiple people.
This is a more Ne-Te thing. As for the project , I have Ne- identified what could be and done the homework to figure out the cost-benefit and legalities. All of that is waiting to happen and I’m just looking for the possible things to help me get permission since that is the one hold up that I can see. Otherwise, no hold up. Almost zero cost and huge benefit.

A more Ne-Fi situation is listening to a new friend talk about their likes and dislikes. Let’s say this friend loves exploring the outdoors and endorses the idea of trying to go hiking or kayaking maybe weekly or monthly. My brain explodes with ideas of where we could go, what we could do. I try a couple of these ideas out on her. She responds with excitement but also tells me her husband has been sick lately... I immediately calculate and adjust to what she is telling me. We have to find a balance between things we want to do and needing down time for her husband. 

Let’s say she says she likes a certain movie that I also like... I can now work on exploring movies with her. Let’s say she likes some music I like.. we start exploring music. This girl is now obviously a fellow ENFP because the sky is the limit. Lol. This is not the usual, no. Lol. Thank heavens for her, yes?

Okay, what is more usual is a bunch of road blocks. “I don’t like poetry”.Means that entire field is not going to be planted. “I think Adele’s voice is whiney and her lyrics seem shallow.”’ Okay... not someone who knows much about music... “My back hurts and I really just like being at home after work”. Okay... lots of road blocks here... “I really only like certain types of flowers”. “Okay, interesting, what types?” “I hate classic books, so pretentious.” “I really only like certain kinds of extroverts for only certain amounts of time, like the ones who make me laugh are good.” “Someone told me ENFPs have ADHD, is that true?” Me: Okay, what the heck am I doing here? Am I now expected to make her laugh all the time? Can’t she see I don’t have ADHD? Or would that even matter if she’s listening to people that judgmental ready to shut things down? What if I need her compassion at some point? What if someone does have ADHD? Could this person See the good in that person too? Or would they not risk anything? Not see the good as well? The friend then says: “I love MBTI.” Me: Okay... we will see how this goes, I guess. It’s like navigating and seeing doors opened and closed, certain parts of the house that I am allowed into, certain areas roped off. The open parts are interesting, but if too many get shut in a friendship I am definitely going to feel like “Are you sure you want me anywhere at all? This is way too restrictive.” I might even feel trapped if the person strongly wants me there in that small space... or they might find their space too small and throw me out.

If an ENFP likes you they will make sure you feel at home in almost every part of the house that you know about... you just don’t know about the secret bunkers, laboratories, secret gardens and/or hidden passageways and the hidden covered swimming pool. Only a very few treasured people see those. But you should feel like making yourself at home in any visible part that you know about. 

I tried to do my best explaining. It’s hard to explain how I actually come up with the ideas/projects and how my mind can see what will work and what will not work and sees the ingredients that are available as resources or allies in the real world to make it work.. it’s often brand new territory that I foray into, but I also usually find best practice papers or some kind of evidence to show my idea as either best practice or I will argue the process and result as being very impactful and worth the perceived risk (I actually have never worked hard promoting something that I didn’t easily and clearly see being successful, though. And often it took time for other people to see the vision or notice it all working, but that’s fine as long as I get permission to begin.). I get new ideas all the time, so the ones I’m most interested in fighting for have been screened by my Te as being bigger bang for the buck or at least a small quick change for excellent results, but anyway... those Ne ideas just appear in the absence of what could or should be and that I easily observe as lacking. 

Ni users, what does your feature of predictability feel like to Ni please? Also I obviously talked about friendship with people with No, feel free to comment on that too since my mind obviously went there.

And also, Ne users, go ahead and elaborate on what Ive got here using metaphors analogies and examples to your Ne heart’s content about the sensitivity to possibilities. 
Thanks all!


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## savart (Jul 9, 2020)

While I am digesting your post, I'll touch on a few things while hanging out in your garden.

I think Ni get's drawn to mystery like fish to a worm. Mysteries is a pandora box of possibilities and outcomes that Ni can sink into and explore. Ni would be figuring out the possibilities while Ne would be creating possibilities.


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## secondpassing (Jan 13, 2018)

Llyralen said:


> A more Ne-Fi situation is listening to a new friend talk about their likes and dislikes. Let’s say this friend loves exploring the outdoors and endorses the idea of trying to go hiking or kayaking maybe weekly or monthly. My brain explodes with ideas of where we could go, what we could do. I try a couple of these ideas out on her. She responds with excitement but also tells me her husband has been sick lately... I immediately calculate and adjust to what she is telling me. We have to find a balance between things we want to do and needing down time for her husband.
> 
> Okay, what is more usual is a bunch of road blocks. “I don’t like poetry”.Means that entire field is not going to be planted. “I think Adele’s voice is whiney and her lyrics seem shallow.”’ Okay... not someone who knows much about music... “My back hurts and I really just like being at home after work”. Okay... lots of road blocks here... “I really only like certain types of flowers”. “Okay, interesting, what types?” “I hate classic books, so pretentious.” “I really only like certain kinds of extroverts for only certain amounts of time, like the ones who make me laugh are good.” “Someone told me ENFPs have ADHD, is that true?” Me: Okay, what the heck am I doing here? Am I now expected to make her laugh all the time? Can’t she see I don’t have ADHD? Or would that even matter if she’s listening to people that judgmental ready to shut things down? What if I need her compassion at some point? What if someone does have ADHD? Could this person See the good in that person too? Or would they not risk anything? Not see the good as well? The friend then says: “I love MBTI.” Me: Okay... we will see how this goes, I guess. It’s like navigating and seeing doors opened and closed, certain parts of the house that I am allowed into, certain areas roped off. The open parts are interesting, but if too many get shut in a friendship I am definitely going to feel like “Are you sure you want me anywhere at all? This is way too restrictive.” I might even feel trapped if the person strongly wants me there in that small space... or they might find their space too small and throw me out.


I think it was natural that I enjoyed the Ne-Fi part the most. 

I don't like too many restrictions on possibilities to think about either, but if someone is intolerant/strong preferences or certain things (we all have them) I'd rather be told those boundaries so I'm free to explore. If I'm going to talk to a friend over coffee, and they keep restricting what topics to talk about, I'd feel bad. It's okay if they don't like mechanics, science, technology, or people. Don't just tell me that though, bring up a suggested list of things to explore. By that point, I possibly already tried four avenues, I'm likely to try five or ten more, so if they could just show that maybe they're interested in cooking or gaming or something.. then we could talk about it. 

The Ne what Lyralen describes makes a whole lot of sense to me, so if an Ni user could point out what is hard to understand then perhaps I could help? Otherwise, I think picturing the brainstorm activity is a good illustration of Ne at work.


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## lilysocks (Nov 7, 2012)

Llyralen said:


> I feel that Ni is very sensitive to mystery.


i'm prone to being _intrigued_, but mostly i'm curious to find out whether or not i can figure it out. i wouldn't count on that being ni - i'm in an intj so for all i know it's te. 

i'm also not convinced that what intrigues me is always the same kind of thing other people would consider a 'mystery'. 

genuine mysteries don't tend to stick with me much. i don't like futility, so i can enjoy itemizing the various things that are unknown. but once i feel like i've delineated the 'mystery' i'm happy to move on and think about something else.



> I’d like to know if the draw towards mystery has to also do with predictability?


no. i don't understand how you make that connection at all. a predictable thing to me is NOT mystery. 


> This is a more Ne-Te thing.


i'm not sure i agree ne has anything distinguishing to do with it, unless i'm not giving enough weight to your scanning of multiple possibilities on the the path to your goal. 

if it helps you any, when i'm addressing a goal or thing i want to do, i tend to start with the end result. it feels like drawing a plumb-line. once you fix your end point the 'line' from here to there seems (to me) self-evident. so to that extent i don't poll multiple possibilities much. ni is sort of notorious for being the 'it's obvious' function. 



> I’m just looking for the possible things to help me get permission


i guess i don't see it as 'looking' for anything. the sub-problems rpesent themselves automatically and solutions are often defined by the problem itself. 'we need to do this, also this, and then this'. problem/solution both in the same thought. 



> A more Ne-Fi situation is listening to a new friend talk about their likes and dislikes


.

honestly . . . i know ahead of time that this is probably going to come across as rudeness. but i do feel like you're special-ifying some pretty basic and universal stuff. 

i'm also going to say that i think you got a little sidetracked into a bit of straight-up griping about your friend  it's not like her obstructiveness makes your ne any more or less ne-ish, so doesn't that make her part in it irrelevant?



> “I think Adele’s voice is whiney and her lyrics seem shallow.”’ Okay... not someone who knows much about music...


no . . . what? it's not relevant, but i'm not letting this pass. that's someone who does not like adele [i don't blame them. i completely agree with that assessment of her]. it says nothing about what they know of music. 



> Ni users, what does your feature of predictability feel like to Ni please?


it's not really about pre-existing predictability. it feels like there's an inevitability about it, but that's a different thing. 

best i understand, ni is singular whereas ne seems to be multiple. your mind generates a field of a million daisies. mine looks at that field and either refuses to engage with such uniformity because there's no meaning in it to me. or one specific daisy [or subset of daisies] will stand out like it's neon purple. it's not predictable to me at all, in terms of me being able to foretell which one it will be. it's just automatic, sometimes literally like vision. you don't have to 'plan' or 'predict' to see purple if it is there. you just look, and it's there.


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## Llyralen (Sep 4, 2017)

@lilysocks. Hmm it must be harder to explain Ne to someone with Ni than I think it is. 

Im not going to take time to rebuttal all the nit-picking although I do wonder if it would help you to understand others. Notice that a condescending tone and assuming that someone’s experience is less complex than it is is always helpful when trying to mutually understand each other and demonstrate that understanding.

Okay, I will rebut one. I considered changing the sentence about Adele a few times before posting it ...BUT didn’t because it made me laugh to write it so I kept it for flavor. I agree you cannot assume anything about the knowledge of music from one opinion of Adele. In real life a similar judgement was the beginning of a friend of mine showing me that she was not interested in music and she had a huge shut-down or shut-out when she found out how huge a part of my life music is. She basically forbid me before ever hearing me to ever sing to her because she found out I my voice is classically trained. Anyway, leaving the sentence there was funny to me personally and I hoped in the context of the other more valid examples that it helped show the experience of someone with Ne listening to people with judgements.
. 
The idea being: of course my Ne will still personally be as Ne as ever. I will still be listening to every type of music out there and perusing opera and other techniques with my voice, but exploring all of my interests with that person or her even being open to understandIng what a big part of me music is was closed off very deliberately by her. So the possibilities of what could be enjoyed and explored got narrower and narrower. And it’s quite rude, actually. Ne feels it is like being boxed up, shut down, shot down, caged, etc. all because we are very sensitive to what doors open and what doors close when talking to others. We do experience it as limiting our possible exploration and enjoyment of the experience of life.

Ne is an extroverted function. We are constantly looking for more exploration and for being able to constantly learn more and bounce ideas off of others. We are looking to experience friendships that embrace us as an entire person and without embracing many of our interests as well, or refusing to hear about our experience with that interest feeling completely accepted is not possible. I, anyway, personally experience it as finding areas that I need to cut off when with certain friends and I hate that. It limits and conforms— we hate that— we always usually want to grow and expand and basically understand everything there is to understand in life. The experience of someone limiting what they want to hear and what they want to explore is like being boxed in or shut in or sometimes even trapped, depending on the person and the relationship. Sometimes I feel like I’m running a mouse maze when talking to people with few interests. Not interested in that... change direction...not interested in that.. change direction... for goodness sake HOW can they not be interested in THAT? But...I actually didn’t write this topic to complain. It crept in. It Is ONE example of how Ne is sensitive to possibilities opening and closing. 

At least the possibilities for enjoyment have narrowed and that is keenly felt by Ne is the point. It is perceived as road blocks and difficulties. Less to explore, less excitement less LIFE. When people with high Ne listen to the judgements of others often it is experienced emotionally as listening to doors slamming. I’m talking about racism and such as well but also just any time someone says something like “people like that”. Door slam. Many possibilities gone, Hence the sensitivity. 

A sensitivity to mystery is not used to describe Te and I personally don’t see it in STJs or in myself. Not like I see it in people with Ni. In literature I’ve come across it has not been used to discuss Te but has been used to discuss Ni. Did you think some more and self-evaluate a bit? Were you able to come up with any reasons for why you are drawn to mystery? And you’re right I do not mean it in the way that it would be meant for me. For me it would mean an interest in new or cutting edge research and ideas and the unknown. And that is not what I think is exactly meant by mystery in an Ni sense.

Conspiracy theories, Rasputin (Of course he is interesting for more than his mysteriousness, though), Notradomous... more like that, but not exactly like that. I SEE the interest and the sensitivity in people with Ni, but I’m waiting for people with Ni to define and explain. Since it is not something I experience. Not whatever this is that I’m hoping gets explored.


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

Mysteries can be awesome but when it come to NI vs NE types what I see is that NIs actually have some kind of propensity to _generate_ mystery a lot (especially the Fs), not just be drawn to mysteries in general. Or at least it looks that way from my perspective because the highly introverted ones can be very difficult to understand due to how subjectively they perceive and connect information. 
Other than that, I'm not sure what you mean by the sensitivity to mystery is a sensitivity to predictability, do you mean they want to solve the mysteries to make things more predictable?

A lot of the things you say in the OP and post #5 relate to F rather than NE I think, like how sensitive one is to others' rejection - of sorts - and the general need to connect with people to explore with & to feel accepted. But also don't people generally seek others they can share interests with anyways? That part just doesn't seem particular to NE or any function really, only perhaps the specifics of how it happens and how one handles it. Like, I've had issues with friends in the past because I didn't want to do stuff like clubbing with them, based on their reactions I'm pretty sure they felt similarly.


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## Llyralen (Sep 4, 2017)

Repeat message.


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## Llyralen (Sep 4, 2017)

@Red Panda. I didn’t conclude any connection yet because I am waiting for those with Ni to define the sensitivity to mystery and what mystery means in this context. I expect the INFJs to know that they are attracted to mystery. I do not expect them to know that we generally aren’t— not in this whole sense. I am not sure what it all has to do with, I would like them to say what it’s about. My hunch... but it is a hunch.. is that it does have to do with being sensitive to predictability and/or uncertainty about what can or cannot be predicted. But I am unsure. It just is something that I see.

As for my experience which was for us pretty average ( and I’m not sure why anybody is trying to criticize it instead of just add to it if you have Ne) I highly doubt someone with more Ni or Si would relate to, actually. I don’t think my INFP husband experiences the high amount of sensitivity to what could be closing or opening like I do.. although I agree that I might be able to find a better example of seeing possibilities, but it’s hard because it’s so constant and takes so much context.

What about you? Can you think of examples? If you have Ne then you would be highly aware of closings and openings in possibilities in systems as well as relationships. Maybe you can add something more to the discussion.


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## savart (Jul 9, 2020)

lilysocks said:


> no. i don't understand how you make that connection at all. a predictable thing to me is NOT mystery.


It's easy to come to such an understanding, it's a simple mystery.

Predictable is the knowing of the unkown of what is to become. A sense of the future state, if the mind wonder's into the future constantly seeking predictions to the point where so much everything around us from people's actions, respones, overall state of being. Movies or tv shows become predictable or will that cup fall of the counter?
Even when certain things or situations become mundanely predictable to where it has lost that feeling of mystery. It is still thought about an brought up onto the surface as the mystery it is even if the fix doesn't get ya' that feeling like it use to. 

Intuition dwells into the unknown. With Ni it tries to decipher the unkown - in that a mystery for simpler terms.


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## lilysocks (Nov 7, 2012)

savart said:


> It's easy to come to such an understanding,



it sounds like you're saying 'predictable' is just a mystery that's been resolved. 

fair enough  a bit disingenuous for purposes of general conversation though.


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## lilysocks (Nov 7, 2012)

ETA: friggin' quote nesting!!!!



Llyralen said:


> Hmm it must be harder to explain Ne to someone with Ni than I think it is.


not being a user of it, i wouldn't know. i did give you my summary of what i have already been told by other ne people, but we seem to be talking past each other.



> it would help you to understand others.


you shouldn't assume that that's what i'm here for. i'm interested in the conversation for any content that might be in it. but i'm not invested in any kind of social outcome from it.



> Notice that a condescending tone and assuming that someone’s experience is less complex than it is is always helpful when trying to mutually understand each other and demonstrate that understanding.


i'm trying to figure this out  is it sarcasm? i'm honestly not sure.



> .BUT didn’t because it made me laugh


genuinely funny thing is, same here for my answer to that.



> I agree you cannot assume anything about the knowledge of music from one opinion of Adele.


so what was funny to you? your own over-the-top, slightly spiteful reaction? i actually do think that's relatable enough to be funny, for what it's worth. but then again, we don't seem to be ont he wavelength that catches when either of us is being funny according to our own personal lights.



> it helped show the experience of someone with Ne listening to people with judgements


.

okay, so this. if that's the actual dynamic that was in play then i think your friend took a passive-aggressive path to pushing you back from her boundary instead of just saying 'not into music/ please don't start singing at me.'

but i don't buy that your overly personalized reaction to someone else not having the same kind of interests as you is ne. i have a first-degree relative and at least one actual friend with ne, and neither one of them acts as entitled as that. 'don't like what iiiiiiiii feel like talking about? fuck you then.'
.


> So the possibilities of what could be enjoyed and explored got narrower and narrower. And it’s quite rude, actually.


the first part seems to me like a neutral reality. especially if you insert the word 'mutually' in there, as in 'the possibilities of what could be _mutually_ enjoyed and explored'. but to call that neutral reality 'rude' is pretty astonishing.

i don't doubt ne wants to frolic in the field of a million daisies. or that it would like to have company and is sad when it doesn't have it. but i don't think it's necessarily ne to blame the rest of the world for not falling into line with the things ne wants.



> We do experience it as limiting our possible exploration and enjoyment of the experience of life.


i don't doubt it. welcome to human diversity.



> I, anyway, personally experience it as finding areas that I need to cut off when with certain friends and I hate that


.

the only sense in which i feel this illuminates or turns on ne at all is the _type_ of thing you want and enjoy. you don't need to dwell on the deprivation to make the point. the ne-specific point is inherent in the interest or preference you have. just saying.

ni (mine anyway) by contrast strongly prefers precision and/or the opportunity to explore a single thing to the depth that i'd like. all that's of interest for what you say the thread was about, is this difference between variety and singularity. 



> It Is ONE example of how Ne is sensitive to possibilities opening and closing.


i don't think that sensitivity is ne. ni users and sensors have their own corresponding versions of the same thing.



> A sensitivity to mystery is not used to describe Te


used by whom and described where? i'm trying ot figure out what our frame of reference is here.



> In literature I’ve come across


same question.



> Did you think some more and self-evaluate a bit?


i'm happy with the accuracy of what i already said.



> Were you able to come up with any reasons for why you are drawn to mystery?


are you asking about what intrigues me? i'm pretty sure i said i was NOT interested in 'mystery'.



> For me it would mean an interest in new or cutting edge research and ideas and the unknown.


yeah; for me that's just interesting. i like collecting information. to me the unknown is not automatically 'mystery' and it's not always intriguing either; it's just stuff that i don't know yet.



> Conspiracy theories, Rasputin (Of course he is interesting for more than his mysteriousness, though), Notradomous... more like that, but not exactly like that.


so slightly paranormal-ish stuff as the common factor?


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

lilysocks said:


> if it helps you any, when i'm addressing a goal or thing i want to do, i tend to start with the end result. it feels like drawing a plumb-line. once you fix your end point the 'line' from here to there seems (to me) self-evident. so to that extent i don't poll multiple possibilities much. ni is sort of notorious for being the 'it's obvious' function.


Maybe this analogy about mystery could be applied here--that there is a mystery, and the Ni reaches into the mystery to find a prediction.

The prediction is the end result that is desired--and the route to get to that point. So that is the 'predictability' because it is seen as something that can actually occur, and perhaps is most likely to occur given the right circumstances or path (which is reverse engineered, it seems). That is "predictable" because if you follow the line of effect, it should end up with the outcome that is desired or predicted?

@Llyralen 
I can say I have had an emotional preoccupation with the idea of "possibilities" or the lack of them--it's incredibly emotionally impacting either way--whether I can find a new possibility I never saw, that I like, or whether I cannot find any possibilities out of a situation (I consider that like dark-night-of-the-soul and I think this has been addressed in literature, music, and art many times--it's very evocative. 

I can also be obnoxious when I'm not particularly high energy or healthy--I talk of "wanting to look for possibilities" which, at least, my mother takes as some affront to her that she must not care about them--it's amazing how people can be offended by things that have little to do with them. But I do make my mother regularly angry because when I say I want to find possibilities (which also means, please stop just criticizing or nit-picking or weighing me down or shooting down anything...or just "I can't talk to you right now") she takes it if I am saying she hates possibilities. But ultimately, it's also a very visceral thing for me--I need to find possibilities (in my own mind's words) or else I feel that hope is lost, and I feel almost a sense of deep depression, and everything I value is threatened. I'm not sure if depression in general could be related, but for me they seem very linked--possibilities are everything.


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

Llyralen said:


> @Red Panda. I didn’t conclude any connection yet because I am waiting for those with Ni to define the sensitivity to mystery and what mystery means in this context. I expect the INFJs to know that they are attracted to mystery. I do not expect them to know that we generally aren’t— not in this whole sense. I am not sure what it all has to do with, I would like them to say what it’s about. My hunch... but it is a hunch.. is that it does have to do with being sensitive to predictability and/or uncertainty about what can or cannot be predicted. But I am unsure. It just is something that I see.
> 
> As for my experience which was for us pretty average ( and I’m not sure why anybody is trying to criticize it instead of just add to it if you have Ne) I highly doubt someone with more Ni or Si would relate to, actually. I don’t think my INFP husband experiences the high amount of sensitivity to what could be closing or opening like I do.. although I agree that I might be able to find a better example of seeing possibilities, but it’s hard because it’s so constant and takes so much context.
> 
> What about you? Can you think of examples? If you have Ne then you would be highly aware of closings and openings in possibilities in systems as well as relationships. Maybe you can add something more to the discussion.




Yea I was just wondering what did you mean. 

I'm not saying other types will be sensitive to shutting off possibilities but that they have their own thing which if not accepted by others will cause them to feel the same way, potentially. That, and also people just wanna have friends with matching interests or who validate them, so not having that can hurt anyone regardless what that thing is. Also on the matter of Ni/Si types, with them it's usually that they'll shift the burden on you, and turn aggressive easily when their interests/thinking are not matching yours. 

There's sensitivity to perceiving those things and then there's sensitivity to how you feel about that rejection and you seemed to place some emphasis on the latter as being NE when it's not, if anything it's more F related or maybe more to do with emotional matters and how one handles them in general, how sensitive they are to approval etc. Like yea, I can tell when people are not seeing all the possibilities I do and it can get irritating if we're trying to have a discussion, but I've learned to not get hurt by this, probably because I've learned since young that people will do that and have found ways to cope and not care to take it very personally. I've had debates with STJs in forums about politics and life in general as early as 15-16y.o and before I knew about typology, so those traumatic experiences taught me a lot of things.

I do have a couple of friends from school with whom I bonded due to circumstances and have found out as we grow that I can't be as close to them as I'd like due to this and that wasn't easy to accept but I had to for my own peace of mind. Yea, it sucks to have less things to talk about and not be able to express my full mental range with them but ultimately I just take that elsewhere and that has helped our relationship have less friction since before I was less accepting of_ them_ too.


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## ai.tran.75 (Feb 26, 2014)

Llyralen said:


> I feel that Ni is very sensitive to mystery. Not in a “who done it?”way, although it could be, but I’d like to understand the experience of this more. I’d like to know if the draw towards mystery has to also do with predictability? Do you feel that the sensitivity to mystery is actually a sensitivity to predictability? Can you explain how you experience this?
> 
> Ni users, what does your feature of predictability feel like to Ni please? Also I obviously talked about friendship with people with No, feel free to comment on that too since my mind obviously went there.
> 
> ...



I agree that most Ni users seems to be more intrigued by mystery than Ne does or at least it seems to be that way based on observations online and all . 
I think where both Ni and Ne aligned is that both are fascinated by the thought of future , and finding the meaning or understanding the meaning behind something/the idea of it over embracing their environment/5 senses . 

I’m definitely prone to thinking about possibilities- and seeing multiple perspectives of how things could play out - and my mind often makes one connection to the next . 
I guess a good example would be - this covid 19 occurred - what will our future look like - course the thoughts of unemployment- rise of domestic abuse and mass hysteria crossed my mind - but at the same moment thoughts such as people will become more precautious - the world would be less polluted and the environment may get better due to having less factories open and people driving , then thoughts such as how long until we find a vaccine and somewhere in the back of my mind I thought about how funny it is to offer someone a corona beer .
An example of random connection - like how you share your insight of thoughts in your mind would be 

Hmmm Adele - hello from what side ? Is she in another realm - oh my parallel universe- we are in the Goldie lock zone - bears - California flag has a bear on it - an image of me playing flag football as a kid etc etc


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## ai.tran.75 (Feb 26, 2014)

lilysocks said:


> best i understand, ni is singular whereas ne seems to be multiple. your mind generates a field of a million daisies. mine looks at that field and either refuses to engage with such uniformity because there's no meaning in it to me. or one specific daisy [or subset of daisies] will stand out like it's neon purple. it's not predictable to me at all, in terms of me being able to foretell which one it will be. it's just automatic, sometimes literally like vision. you don't have to 'plan' or 'predict' to see purple if it is there. you just look, and it's there.


Ne is seeing a big picture and work it’s way backward to collect detail from it - however it also doesn’t rule out other possibilities bc the future isn’t here yet and since it isn’t here - nothing is set in stone . This is what most likely would happen but it is never exact - hence room for possibilities- the multiple perspectives have different stages of importance and relevancy . And the type itself is more prone to reflect to what happened in the past /what they’ve gathered and experience as facts whereas the future means possibilities. 
Another way Ne works for me is - I see the end result first - however there are many different pathways for me to choose to follow by to get to that end result . 
Both Ne and Ni appears to be fascinated with future outcome and seeing the end result first but I feel like Ni seems to prefer the end result/final destination over the journey in most cases - whereas Ne gain more from the journey than its final destination . 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## savart (Jul 9, 2020)

lilysocks said:


> it sounds like you're saying 'predictable' is just a mystery that's been resolved.
> 
> fair enough  a bit disingenuous for purposes of general conversation though.


Pretty much, as well some predictability is on the spot mystery. 
You also got to remember the term 'mystery' is from the outside looking in. And not everyone see's the world as predictable.
Your reposnse about being being intrigued sounds a lot like the resposne I gave to @Llyralen about the Scooby-Doo mystery machine.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

Llyralen said:


> I feel that Ni is very sensitive to mystery. Not in a “who done it?”way, although it could be, but I’d like to understand the experience of this more. I’d like to know if the draw towards mystery has to also do with predictability? Do you feel that the sensitivity to mystery is actually a sensitivity to predictability? Can you explain how you experience this?
> 
> In return I can offer some description of how I am sensitive to possibilities. I think examples are maybe the best way?
> Let’s say that I am talking to an influential co-worker who tells me they agree with and like my work and let’s say that I am trying to get permission from a manager to do a project. My manager has made comments about wanting to be the same as other departments despite the fact that there is no department exactly like ours and that they have no experience with what I’m asking for. After having a very positive talk with the influential co-worker I also feel in a better position to explain my project to him, identify the costs and explain how my project would benefit our customers and basically I see that with his influence he might be the lynch-pin to talking to my manager about the need for the project despite my manager having no experience with this thing. I also think I will see if I can talk to other influential people who I know want this same project to happen. The manager will likely be more open hearing the same need identified by multiple people.
> ...



Let's see. ENTP. Diagnosed with ADHD. I love all forms of alliteration/symbolism and I also love a good mystery. I love solving unusual problems. Not much of a Adele fan. Big fan of ENFPs. They are Ne dom so I can relate to that, and I admire their enthusiasm.


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## savart (Jul 9, 2020)

tanstaafl28 said:


> Big fan of ENFPs. They are Ne dom so I can relate to that, and I admire their enthusiasm.


I am an admire of ENxP


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## savart (Jul 9, 2020)

Red Panda said:


> Mysteries can be awesome but when it come to NI vs NE types what I see is that NIs actually have some kind of propensity to _generate_ mystery a lot (especially the Fs), not just be drawn to mysteries in general. Or at least it looks that way from my perspective because the highly introverted ones can be very difficult to understand due to how subjectively they perceive and connect information.


A lot of the confuing interconnecting of perceiving and translating the information.
Isn't soly on how Introverted the person is but how Introverted the combination of the percecing Ni and and translating Ti can be.
Even dominate Ti users at times create and intertwine word usage to explain their thoughts.
With INFJ's this process can be extremely difficult to corelate coherently. Ni-Fe is easy which is why most INFJ's will stick to their comfort zone of people pouring out relationship issues or something similar. I personaly dislike sticking to my comfort zone of drama, there's enough of that in the real world.
With Ni and Ti colliding and trying to bridge together the information is a daunting task majority of the time. Take Ni trying to work backwards and forward and backwards again. While Ti acting as a scribe, imagine how the unfiltered thinking is 

Between a lot of people not understanding what your saying and the amount of energy put into it. Makes it easy to stay in comfort zone

My head is full of theories and ideas that may never be brought about on paper. Mostly due to that it would take just as much thought and energy trying to explain it coherently. Than it did coming up with it.


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## lilysocks (Nov 7, 2012)

ai.tran.75 said:


> I feel like Ni seems to prefer the end result/final destination over the journey in most cases


can't speak for other types that may use it differently, but when people ask 'what is ni like anyway' in intj world, the one thing you're sure of hearing about is the 'lightbulb' moment. that's pretty dramatic and very satisfying when it happens, but i kind of suspect that most of ni is acting in the same way all the time anyway. imo t's not like we have 'ordinary' ni that just chugs along in the regular world, and then x% of the time we have these lightning bolts that feel almost otherworldly sometimes. they definitely can feel that way, but i don't think the mechanism is different. 

the certainty is definitely where the rush lives for me, so in that sense alone i agree with you. but i think i've been told intuition is the intj's info-gathering function, so i think for me it may also just be a matter of intro/extraversion. i don't want to discuss or talk about 'possibilities' while i'm collecting them. it's seriously disruptive to me. 

so, basically, i think it's possible i canvass possibilities just as actively as somebody with ne. if there really is an active mystery on the table, then i'm focused and that means i just don't like to TALK about them. it could be as simple as the idea that group processing is enjoyable to ne users but actively unpleasant for some with ni.


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## Eu_citzen (Jan 18, 2018)

Ni simply is more focused on possibilities of subjective importance; e.g. those of interest to the individual.
In that way, it seems very much the opposite of the expansive nature of Ne. But both pertain, probably, to possibilities of some sorts.
The valuing system is just different. Basically, one assigns more value to possibilities in general; the other just to specific possibilities. (e.g. much more narrowed down)


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## Whippit (Jun 15, 2012)

Tridentus said:


> I've thought about this a lot for many years, and you're right. You also helped me expand on my own thoughts:
> Ne likes Ni because Ni represents a consistent convergence to a point as you say, so it helps Ne when it's bouncing around firing in all directions to see such a consistent process and therefore to sort of adopt it as a 'base' fire at to see how well things are able to land, or whether they just completely bounce off, and therefore give direction and structure. It's a reference point.
> Ni likes Ne because it throws up all these different angles and directions which 'test' the pathway Ni lays out for itself in ways that it has never considered before, and therefore expands and then consolidates it's direction.
> 
> ...


You probably have a lot more insight than me about Ne-Ni interaction since I've never really had a strong Ni presence in my life. Ne does need focus, there's probably a few ways to hone that for an ENFP. I can imagine having an INTJ in one's life could really confer some Te lessons by example, and improve valuation of Fi by lack of example. 😺

Most of my Ni interaction comes from reading INTJ authors, which really draw me in, especially when I don't know what they are ultimately "converging" on. There's a really intriguing emergent architecture that Ni builds amongst the scaffold of reality to bring a specific future into being. It feels alien yet familiar.


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## savart (Jul 9, 2020)

tarmonk said:


> Another way I'd explain Ni is that for Ni-dom, Ni is the compensation mechanism to recover missing pieces of immediate data (Se) which are actually already stored to their mind but didn't initially notice / pay attention to - how else they could otherwise effectively operate?


Most, almost everyone, don't realize that Ni dom just about notices everything. Unlike Se dom Ni doesn't react full throttle like. 
It would be to tiring to do so when you absorb so much info and live in a semi conscious state. That balancing act can be a chore sometimes from being a sloth to active. Sometimes I set myself little reminders to fix or do something. Then I just get used to the reminders


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

Whippit said:


> As mentioned before in this thread, I've also always seen Ni as creating mystery, not necessarily being sensitive to mystery. Ni is mysterious and obscure, but behind the scenes it's ultimately pretty direct, it's trying to converge to a single point. Ne likes to reveal, a lot of the Ne attraction to Ni is wanting to root up lay out Ni mysteriousness. You can call that a type of "sensitivity to mystery".


Yea it's been quite baffling sometimes to talk to strong NIs, feels like they're overcomplicating things and I suspect sometimes it's cause there are tidbits of information they just don't want to see/accept/incorporate, so they sorta deny them then overcomplicate the rest to make up for the missing piece that takes them down a path they don't want to for whatever reason. Not that there can't be valuable things to learn from that but it can be exhausting. Not sure I'd call it direct, but I'm sure they believe they are based on some intimate discussions I've had with a few. Some who are closer to Ne don't have this as strongly, met both types and it can make quite the difference.


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## Whippit (Jun 15, 2012)

Red Panda said:


> Yea it's been quite baffling sometimes to talk to strong NIs, feels like they're overcomplicating things and I suspect sometimes it's cause there are tidbits of information they just don't want to see/accept/incorporate, so they sorta deny them then overcomplicate the rest to make up for the missing piece that takes them down a path they don't want to for whatever reason. Not that there can't be valuable things to learn from that but it can be exhausting. Not sure I'd call it direct, but I'm sure they believe they are based on some intimate discussions I've had with a few. Some who are closer to Ne don't have this as strongly, met both types and it can make quite the difference.


I suppose I meant direct as in it attempts to take the straightest line path to the conclusion. But ultimately it's pretty labyrinthine because it's weaving around and sometimes short-circuiting reality, especially if the conclusion can't actually exist in reality. To tell the truth, I don't really understand the "conclusion/convergence" aspect. I assume it's a network intuitions that supports their concerns? I always had the impression that they don't so much feel like their lines are so much direct, but more like true in a gnostic sense. It's always been the trope, and It seems real, that Ni can be as obscure to the Ni-dom as it is to everybody else. But they are also pretty notorious in being willing to accept any kind of positive judgements of their processes, earned or not.

I also have very little insight on the obscurity of Ni/Te. The little that I can synthesize using my own mind is that all my connection gathering sometimes leads to unexplained (by me) crystallized insights. Sometimes it's genuinely insightful, like being able to predict that a person will do a certain thing in a specific situation. Sometimes it's stupid, like feeling like I'm wielding mystical power when I "intuit" going for a walk might make me feel better.


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## Llyralen (Sep 4, 2017)

So... I’m not saying Ne doesn’t like mystery... but it’s a different kind of mystery. I watched a show about an ENFP trying to solve true crime... gathering information, reaching out to every piece of info available— absolutely consumed. But the draw (ai think and not to exclude Ni) was that it could be solved. It was just waiting to be solved. 

it seems like No is attracted to what I consider unsolvable.

Maybe I can come back with some examples... but talks about the future with COVID or “what is really going on” with COVId. We both are interested in coming up with ideas and structure, but the end result is different.

Both of us might be interested in Rasputin (there was that whole thread on here Probably more than a year ago) but completely different reasons for being interested between Ne and Ni. 

What might work is for me to find a good decisive hypothetical example that we could all play with. When one comes up I will put it on here.


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## Eu_citzen (Jan 18, 2018)

Red Panda said:


> Yea it's been quite baffling sometimes to talk to strong NIs, feels like they're overcomplicating things and I suspect sometimes it's cause there are tidbits of information they just don't want to see/accept/incorporate, so they sorta deny them then overcomplicate the rest to make up for the missing piece that takes them down a path they don't want to for whatever reason. Not that there can't be valuable things to learn from that but it can be exhausting. Not sure I'd call it direct, but I'm sure they believe they are based on some intimate discussions I've had with a few. Some who are closer to Ne don't have this as strongly, met both types and it can make quite the difference.


My partner is an Ni dominant. And the way it looks to me as an Ni aux user, too, is that Ni is operating more on the level of "instincts".
E.g. subconsciously. Like having a gut-feeling. You don't know why or where it came from; you only get part of the results.
So when they have to explain a "Ni thing", it's usually a process of trying to "reverse engineer" where that hunch came from. And thus, they often seem lacking in information.




Whippit said:


> /../
> 
> I also have very little insight on the obscurity of Ni/Te. The little that I can synthesize using my own mind is that all my connection gathering sometimes leads to unexplained (by me) crystallized insights. Sometimes it's genuinely insightful, like being able to predict that a person will do a certain thing in a specific situation. Sometimes it's stupid, like feeling like I'm wielding mystical power when I "intuit" going for a walk might make me feel better.


I'll gladly speculate with you, if you're up for it. What I can tell you, as an ENTJ, is that whatever my thoughts (Te?) is preoccupied with, Ni does seem to process it, too.
Almost as if aligning (being controlled?) by the dominant function -- which I guess isn't all that surprising.

So, for example, what you say about genuinely insightful strikes me as quite ENTJ. (the way I experience it, anyhow)
Sometimes, if Te can't find a solution to a problem, Ni might suddenly pop up the solution out of seemingly nowhere.
Which kind of ties in to the above quote, too, in that Ni pops up an answer. You just don't know where it came from or how it arrived at that answer.


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## savart (Jul 9, 2020)

@Tridentus 
Sorry such late response, i been not to well lately. Been trying to catch up on responses now n then.
Yes, I see this happen a lot. Especially when someone is open and accepting to such situations. With INFJ's, at least myself, this also satisfies my Fe while still being my Introverted self. And not in a how can I help type of situation, the floor mat is in. <---------------Peanuts pun

Like I mentioned in a previous post. Ni absorbs a lot of data and this gets applied to mostly everything we do. Ne and Ni isn't as different as a lot make them out to be. Ni deals with possibilities, Ne use's possibilities to figure out an answer. Ni use's possibilities to figure out the question.


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

Eu_citzen said:


> My partner is an Ni dominant. And the way it looks to me as an Ni aux user, too, is that Ni is operating more on the level of "instincts".
> E.g. subconsciously. Like having a gut-feeling. You don't know why or where it came from; you only get part of the results.
> So when they have to explain a "Ni thing", it's usually a process of trying to "reverse engineer" where that hunch came from. And thus, they often seem lacking in information.


I'm not sure this is really that different than Ne. N in general integrates unconsciously the info and presents the result of this to the conscious. Like you said in post #41 their difference is based on the subjective direction of the NI personality who will fixate on specific paths, whereas ime NEs comfortably play around with the info in our heads perhaps due to lacking the same attachment. I think the ability to explain and reverse engineer is something we all struggle with and try to develop and perhaps relates to metacognition skills. So far the people I've met with great metacognition skills are all NEs perhaps because that relative detachment makes it a bit easier, but I think in general it's something humanity is working on developing from an evolutionary pov, slowly. It's understandably quite hard to communicate one's perceptions to others because perceptions have to be experienced. Even more so if those perceptions have a subjective focus and convey an abstracted version of the objective.


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

savart said:


> Ne use's possibilities to figure out an answer. Ni use's possibilities to figure out the question.


I disagree, besides one can't figure an answer without knowing the questions. My experience with NEs is that they're comfortable going further with their questions than NIs, not absolute, but there's usually less attachment to the outcome and more readiness to accept what arises from those questions.


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## Aiwass (Jul 28, 2014)

Red Panda said:


> I disagree, besides one can't figure an answer without knowing the questions. My experience with NEs is that they're comfortable going further with their questions than NIs, not absolute, but there's usually less attachment to the outcome and more readiness to accept what arises from those questions.


Lol. Do you really think you are an Extroverted Intuitive dominant, or any perceiving dom? _You_? You have one giant tunnel vision and your Ji is spilling out all over the place. Subjective judgements. This good, this bad. This better, this worse. Not to mention you’re soft as hell and conflict-avoidant.

INFP. No Pe dom at all. Completely lacking in fluidity. On this thread you have been repeating the same opinion about Ni being closed over and over again and came with nothing new at all.


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

Aiwass said:


> Lol. Do you really think you are an Extroverted Intuitive dominant, or any perceiving dom? _You_? You have one giant tunnel vision and your Ji is spilling out all over the place. Subjective judgements. This good, this bad. This better, this worse. Not to mention you’re soft as hell and conflict-avoidant.
> 
> INFP. No Pe dom at all. Completely lacking in fluidity. On this thread you have been repeating the same opinion about Ni being closed over and over again and came with nothing new at all.


so much projection


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## Aiwass (Jul 28, 2014)

Red Panda said:


> so much projection


Stop pretending you haven’t been criticizing Ni all over the place and acting like Ne types are superior, because you fucking are.

And you’re no Ne dom anyway.


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

Aiwass said:


> Stop pretending you haven’t been criticizing Ni all over the place and acting like Ne types are superior, because you fucking are.
> 
> And you’re no Ne dom anyway.


Yes I criticize it based on context. Each one is good at certain things over others, I have NI doms in my life that I love and appreciate for what they bring, not to mention artists, teachers & scientists. Your arrogance is astounding, grow up?


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## Aiwass (Jul 28, 2014)

Red Panda said:


> Yes I criticize it based on context. Each one is good at certain things over others, I have NI doms in my life that I love and appreciate for what they bring, not to mention artists, teachers & scientists. Your arrogance is astounding, grow up?


Based on “context” lol. You’re always taking a shot at Ni, or talking about how awesome of a function Ne is. It is ridiculous really. I’ve never seen you talking about the functions in mildly neutral terms even. It’s always reinforcing your extroverted intuitive cult or whatever.

Call me arrogant, I don’t think you even have an idea of how an actual Ne dom looks like.


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

Aiwass said:


> Based on “context” lol. You’re always taking a shot at Ni, or talking about how awesome of a function Ne is. It is ridiculous really. I’ve never seen you talking about the functions in mildly neutral terms even. It’s always reinforcing your extroverted intuitive cult or whatever.
> 
> Call me arrogant, I don’t think you even have an idea of how an actual Ne dom looks like.


I literally agreed with you about the drawbacks of Ne in the other thread. Your delusions ain't my problem, stop harassing me.


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## Aiwass (Jul 28, 2014)

Red Panda said:


> I literally agreed with you about the drawbacks of Ne in the other thread. Your delusions ain't my problem, stop harassing me.


Tch. Whatever.


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## Eu_citzen (Jan 18, 2018)

Red Panda said:


> I'm not sure this is really that different than Ne. N in general integrates unconsciously the info and presents the result of this to the conscious. Like you said in post #41 their difference is based on the subjective direction of the NI personality who will fixate on specific paths, whereas ime NEs comfortably play around with the info in our heads perhaps due to lacking the same attachment. I think the ability to explain and reverse engineer is something we all struggle with and try to develop and perhaps relates to metacognition skills. So far the people I've met with great metacognition skills are all NEs perhaps because that relative detachment makes it a bit easier, but I think in general it's something humanity is working on developing from an evolutionary pov, slowly. It's understandably quite hard to communicate one's perceptions to others because perceptions have to be experienced. Even more so if those perceptions have a subjective focus and convey an abstracted version of the objective.


I wasn't trying to highlight differences, either, but rather explain why I think Ni users can lack information or struggle to explain themselves. 
How that's similar, or different, from Ne wasn't really on my mind in that post.


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

Eu_citzen said:


> I wasn't trying to highlight differences, either, but rather explain why I think Ni users can lack information or struggle to explain themselves.
> How that's similar, or different, from Ne wasn't really on my mind in that post.



Yea I just went on a bit of a tangent because while it's relatable and happens to Ne too it still kinda differs than Ni in delivery some times.


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## savart (Jul 9, 2020)

Red Panda said:


> I disagree, besides one can't figure an answer without knowing the questions. My experience with NEs is that they're comfortable going further with their questions than NIs, not absolute, but there's usually less attachment to the outcome and more readiness to accept what arises from those questions.


Sir Issac Newton comes to mind.


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