# Womanizers and manipulators! I'm sick of them!



## musician gal (Jul 11, 2011)

sooooo....where's the real men at? why are so many men such "players" and manipulative man-whores? 

where do men that want a real relationship that is of depth and of meaning tend to hang out? 

if you are a player....explain why and if you don't mind...list your personality type.

if you are the type that is a relationship type of person....one person at a time.....please list your reasons and your personality type...

-I seem to attract a lot of cheaters or players....I'm shy...and don't tend to get out much other than going to work (used to stay busy going to grad school and met people that way)....but when I am asked out...turns out the guy is playing me while playing other women, too. If I'm told, "your'e my girlfriend" and find out there are other women on the side....better believe I'll dump and do the 'ole "INFJ doorslam" on that! 

btw, sorry, I know women can be this way, too.....I know several of my guy friends that were cheated on by women.....which were Introverted women (to my surprise)....

thanks for reading and for your honesty


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## Razare (Apr 21, 2009)

musician gal said:


> -I seem to attract a lot of cheaters or players....I'm shy...and don't tend to get out much other than going to work


There you go, decent guys don't spend their time hunting for women... they have better things to do. Plus, many of them are less attractive and desirable.

So if you're a decent guy who's also attractive, and basically have it all together, essentially you pick who you want. Thus, they're apt to take their time and pick someone they really want, instead of the women constantly flirting with them.

Then you also have to factor in the average guys who are good looking... neither player nor good-guy. They'll take sex if they can get it, but they wont cheat, nor "play"... yet they may be in the relationship for only sex. Then one day, they realize they want something more and find their "someone".

Then there's the plenty of decent guys who've given up, but I guess that's outside of your age range. It doesn't really set-in until our late twenties, maybe thirties? I've always behaved like I'm 10 years older than I am, so I'm probably having this prematurely.


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## Vexilla Regis (May 4, 2011)

Good question. 

I believe all of us women and men are capable of good and bad. Maybe this is a matter of morality more than personality type. Though, I am tired of being cheated on and hurt. :/ My Mother taught me that "cheaters NEVER prosper.

Or maybe find a man who you have a mutually strong attraction with, build a strong foundation and constantly work at your relationship.

Maybe find a nice introverted man with a strong sense of morals and values and please let me know. 
*BIG ASS ELEPHANT TEARS* I remember being fifteen and my Grandmother begging me to give my life to God. I seriously wanted to be a Daughter of St. Paul Nun. She told me the women in our family just did not have good luck with men. I believe she was an INFJ. She was one who watched Mother Angelica daily and went to Catholic Mass daily.


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## musician gal (Jul 11, 2011)

Razare said:


> There you go, decent guys don't spend their time hunting for women... they have better things to do. Plus, many of them are less attractive and desirable.
> 
> So if you're a decent guy who's also attractive, and basically have it all together, essentially you pick who you want. Thus, they're apt to take their time and pick someone they really want, instead of the women constantly flirting with them.
> 
> ...


thank you for your direct honesty and explaining it in the different ways and seeing the various possibilities of dating with men! 

-yeah, I think I'm attracting good looking men that are just constantly on the hunt and know they can do that and have their choice to bag....however, looks aren't everything....a lot of men seem to still depend on their families and aren't mature or independent! -I was out on my own at 19 with a job and paying my way through college...so, I don't get it when guys don't work or go to school or do anything productive...very odd to me! 

you rock!!!! I do appreciate you, my friend!


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## Vexilla Regis (May 4, 2011)

Razare said:


> There you go, decent guys don't spend their time hunting for women... they have better things to do. Plus, many of them are less attractive and desirable.
> 
> So if you're a decent guy who's also attractive, and basically have it all together, essentially you pick who you want. Thus, they're apt to take their time and pick someone they really want, instead of the women constantly flirting with them.
> 
> ...


Personally, I believe beauty comes from within. The most beautiful man I've ever known was one who took the time to understand me, took the time to listen to me, emotionally supported me, was real with me, and is one of the most intelligent people who I have ever known... It just so happens, he looks mighty fine on the outside as well.


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## musician gal (Jul 11, 2011)

Mountain Climber said:


> Good question.
> 
> I believe all of us women and men are capable of good and bad. Maybe this is a matter of morality more than personality type. Though, I am tired of being cheated on and hurt. :/ My Mother taught me that "cheaters NEVER prosper.
> 
> ...


eeek! I know I'm def not cut out to be a nun! I love sex! I can't imagine living a life like that! -I admire those that do tho! 

yes, I think you're right! You are the 2nd person to tell me that I should go for an Introverted man....I have dated and attracted a lot of Extroverts, who always crave a ton of attention and like action and get bored...or so it feels to me? 

maybe we should both try the Barnes and Noble or Starbucks? lol I have no idea where Introverted men hang out?! 

and I think you hit the nail on the head by stating that it's more of a morality and values type of thing than a personality thing, too......I've dated a lot of guys that didn't have the same sort of values as me (I'm a Christian, however, I'm not the sort that's at church every time the doors are open...I go to a non-denomination type of church..and I'm not judgmental and accepting...but I do expect a guy to stay loyal instead of cheat or play the field when he calls me his girlfriend and uses the "L" word with me a lot!) 

thank you for your kind and funny reply! you are a sweet person!


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## Vexilla Regis (May 4, 2011)

musician gal said:


> eeek! I know I'm def not cut out to be a nun! I love sex! I can't imagine living a life like that! -I admire those that do tho!
> 
> yes, I think you're right! You are the 2nd person to tell me that I should go for an Introverted man....I have dated and attracted a lot of Extroverts, who always crave a ton of attention and like action and get bored...or so it feels to me?
> 
> ...


I believe bookstores, chess clubs, and Mensa are top notch places for finding intelligent/introverted men.


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## Vexilla Regis (May 4, 2011)

Oh, almost forgot... libraries!!!


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## Razare (Apr 21, 2009)

Mountain Climber said:


> I seriously wanted to be a Daughter of St. Paul Nun. She told me the women in our family just did not have good luck with men. I believe she was an INFJ. She was one who watched Mother Angelica daily and went to Catholic Mass daily.


As an INFJ I can shed some light on this. We almost invariably expect too much from a relationship... not from the other person, but from the ideal of what a relationship should be. Other people can't live up to the ideal, and sometimes, even we can't. It's when I discovered this that I made God my top priority emotionally.

I realized that I would be disappointed in any relationship other than God... because all worldly relationships result in pain. Your heart will be hurt, and you will suffer, even if you meet the man of your dreams and marry him.

There are only 2 ways of avoiding this.

1) You die first.
2) You die together.

Otherwise, he's either going to leave you, break your heart (you leave him), or die before you, in any case you'll be hurt and feel alone... yet you may figure out a way of dealing with that and appreciating the love that you had, but surely, it's still going to be painful.


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## musician gal (Jul 11, 2011)

Razare said:


> As an INFJ I can shed some light on this. We almost invariably expect too much from a relationship... not from the other person, but from the ideal of what a relationship should be. Other people can't live up to the ideal, and sometimes, even we can't. It's when I discovered this that I made God my top priority emotionally.
> 
> I realized that I would be disappointed in any relationship other than God... because all worldly relationships result in pain. Your heart will be hurt, and you will suffer, even if you meet the man of your dreams and marry him.
> 
> ...


I find myself accommodating and bending too much to please the man....and don't place high expectations. -maybe men need that? 

I def don't want to be alone! and I'm def not cut out to be a nun!

I def agree and so glad that you believe in God and feel he's the only one that can be the whole Ultimate thing...I totally agree with that!!!! -I guess I just need to continue to be patient....and be glad when he shuts the door or has me shut the door on certain relationships....


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## musician gal (Jul 11, 2011)

Mountain Climber said:


> I believe bookstores, chess clubs, and Mensa are top notch places for finding intelligent/introverted men.


lol, we need to have some "speed dates" at those places! hahaha! -chess clubs and Mensa = smart guys! yay!

-I def avoid sporting events which def = tons of dumb guys! lol


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## Vexilla Regis (May 4, 2011)

Razare said:


> As an INFJ I can shed some light on this. We almost invariably expect too much from a relationship... not from the other person, but from the ideal of what a relationship should be. Other people can't live up to the ideal, and sometimes, even we can't. It's when I discovered this that I made God my top priority emotionally.
> 
> I realized that I would be disappointed in any relationship other than God... because all worldly relationships result in pain. Your heart will be hurt, and you will suffer, even if you meet the man of your dreams and marry him.
> 
> ...


Thats absolutely brilliant and beautiful, because guess what? I love unconditionally, or else--I wouldn't be so devastated. But, I have adverse reactions to him dropping his trousers for other women. I feel deeply wounded and when I look at him, my perceptions of life and people have soured a bit. I look at relationships like architecture. Our foundation is damaged and I don't know how I can ever trust him again. Guess what I see when I look at him too deeply?


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## Wellsy (Oct 24, 2011)

Go to places where you think a good man be, not saying all guys who go to the bar are bad men but generally a bar has it's fair share of sleazy men who like to drink and laugh with their guy friends.
Places where people volunteer for a cause or a job that would require good attributes in a persons personality.
A selfish man wouldn't give his time to help others without an ulterior motive.


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## musician gal (Jul 11, 2011)

Wellsy said:


> Go to places where you think a good man be, not saying all guys who go to the bar are bad men but generally a bar has it's fair share of sleazy men who like to drink and laugh with their guy friends.
> Places where people volunteer for a cause or a job that would require good attributes in a persons personality.
> A selfish man wouldn't give his time to help others without an ulterior motive.


that is brilliant!!!!! I'm def going to have to go to volunteer types of things! -I already go to a church and unfortunately sleezy men are there, too. -most of the guys that I've met have either lived in my apartment complex near me....or went to church with me....I don't do the bar scene and don't drink. -but the guys that I date tend to drink...maybe I need to date non-drinkers? 

your advise was so helpful and excellent! thank you so much!


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## saibot (May 21, 2012)

Also, while it is definitely *FAR *from perfect, you could check out free dating sites. The internet is the home of the introverted person. The personality questions also make it easy to tell what a person really wants.


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## redmanXNTP (May 17, 2011)

musician gal said:


> sooooo....where's the real men at? why are so many men such "players" and manipulative man-whores?
> 
> where do men that want a real relationship that is of depth and of meaning tend to hang out?
> 
> ...


If this is a repeated problem for you, then you're part of the problem somehow. I'm not excusing cheating - cheaters are pathetic.

Cheating is reflective of other, deeper problems in the relationship unless you've got the incredibly rare person who is truly a nymphomaniac. 

The question I'd ask here is how are you not identifying these people as having different values in the relationship than you do, and how can you do a better job keeping them interested and accountable? Do you have frank discussions with your partners about these subjects (and other important subjects) as a way of maintaining your relationship before there's a problem? 

When younger, I would hold back from having open discussions or voicing my concerns (that is when I even knew what I was feeling - a common problem for NTP's). Now I speak up and I'm not worried about offending. Screw it, if there's a problem or a concern, it needs to be out in the open.


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## MuChApArAdOx (Jan 24, 2011)

redmanXNTP said:


> If this is a repeated problem for you, then you're part of the problem somehow. I'm not excusing cheating - cheaters are pathetic.
> 
> Cheating is reflective of other, deeper problems in the relationship unless you've got the incredibly rare person who is truly a nymphomaniac.
> 
> ...


I'm not an expert on relationships, although personally i believe that people ignore the red flags. They either sweep them under the rug , or believe it couldn't happen to them. When communicating with those who are serious about a relationship, if we listen their intentions become clear. This can also be said for red flags. Observe their actions with group dynamics, in outings and so on. Small subtle things can add up to big things if one is willing to take off the rose coloured glasses. I despise cheating also, although in many cases the signs are there with men/women who cheat.


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## musician gal (Jul 11, 2011)

redmanXNTP said:


> If this is a repeated problem for you, then you're part of the problem somehow. I'm not excusing cheating - cheaters are pathetic.
> 
> Cheating is reflective of other, deeper problems in the relationship unless you've got the incredibly rare person who is truly a nymphomaniac.
> 
> ...


Actually, I have not had many serious relationships; only 3 in my entire life. But the guy that I was seeing on and off for the past 6 years (ENFP) cheated....he goes from, "you're my girlfriend" to "you're my good friend" and nothing more...which is very confusing. I love him, but my friends all hate him. -I grew up on my own without parents to guide me in this area (cuz they died when I was in my teens), so, I admit that I do have problems in seeing signs of a man being bad or not right for me until my emotions are already involved. My friends hate him, because they don't think he treats me right and are frustrated and say, "he always comes back and won't let you move on." -So, I don't know why he comes back or what he wants from me? He told me that he never wants to marry me....then recently told me he won't marry me, because "you don't know how to submit." 

but I do want to start dating other men, because I don't see that this man will ever change from this yo-yo thing he likes to do to me....he recently told me that his dad is a womanizer (which I already knew) and his mom was verbally abusive (which I knew from talking to her)....he used to be my neighbor for 3 of the 6 years that I've known him. I don't see any hope in the relationship. But I am still highly confused by why he keeps coming back into my life, shows up at places where he knows I might be, etc. He also recently told me that I know him and his family better than anyone else...and trusts me to talk to about all that...I don't mind being a friend as well as being a girlfriend...but he purposely will tell me that I'm one or the other to him and when I'm just a "friend" in his eyes...he won't kiss me or anything and is very cold and distant and breaks up or cheats....sometimes he pulls this crap right as we are getting really close....other times I think it's cuz he is so vain and knows he can have other women and just simply makes that choice to do the womanizing. I'm just not certain of his motives and what he wants from me or with me? I feel used by him; that's what is making me not want to let him back and to move on.


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## Arclight (Feb 10, 2010)

You need to find a man who has been hurt.
A man who has been broken and needed to rebuild himself to survive.
There you might find the desirable mix of sensitivity and toughness. 

Also.. You enabled this man to hurt you.. Being alone is better than being abused, because then you end up alone with a low self esteem instead of alone with your sense of self still intact. 
Get out when it's obvious that a person does not respect what love really is.


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## Kyandigaru (Mar 11, 2012)

Arclight said:


> You need to find a man who has been hurt.
> A man who has been broken and needed to rebuild himself to survive.
> There you might find the desirable mix of sensitivity and toughness.


I've talked to a couple of men that were broken and trust me they NEVER fix themselves. Never really get over the pain. And sometimes in a few cases, they turn the pain into spiteful emotional attacks to random women they want to "date". Its hard out here in the dating world, you can never be sure of who you run into and just hope you have found a decent guy who you can fall in love with...


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## musician gal (Jul 11, 2011)

Svensenberg said:


> I think you've already got the answer a couple of times: the type of guy that you want isn't out looking for you so you'll have to go find him. You seem like someone thoughtful and smart, so you already are going to attract similar types of people if you can find them. PerC is sort of a good place to do that, from what I've experienced so far. Just keep your chin up and keep trying! Good people are out there, and it's worth going through a thousand awful relationships just to find one really great one.
> 
> Oh, and I saw a bit of a discussion about INTP's being shy and hard to talk to. Not all of us are that way :wink:


thank you so much for the encouragement!!!  

and where do non-shy INTP's like yourself hang out? how can I meet INTP's?


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## sparkles (Mar 2, 2011)

militaryinteldoesntequate said:


> @_nreynolds1990_, you've just got to work on not being apologetic for who you are brother. As you did several times in your post you've still got some lacking in confidence. People in general don't care for apologists.
> You're one of those of us guys who have great qualities so there is absolutely no reason for you to think or feel that your personality qualities are insignificant.
> It's like trying to sell a product to someone, you have to build the product up for it's positive qualities to make a sale, people aren't going to be buying something for it's negative aspects. And you're working to sell yourself to people, so make yourself to be as great as you really are.
> God, I feel like I just wrote a brief script for an infomercial.


Agree. Guys like @nreynolds1990 are super partners. There will be girls who don't even care about the apologist stuff, though. Or who will look past it because they know a good thing when they see it. See for me, a guy like that may apologize a lot but I think it is sweet and endearing. It shows me he's concerned about how I'm receiving his behavior, that he doesn't want to trample my boundaries. I like that stuff. (Especially when I know such a person will also set those boundaries with me if needed. Like he said, difference between decent guy and nice guy. Nice guys are pushovers, decent guys are not.)

Friends first, people. If you're friends first, you aren't using those indicators that would amount to - too quiet, next; too insecure, next; not confident enough, next; not pursuing hard enough, next. At least for me, I have done dating more than one way, and I am picky in a different way if it starts with friendship. I'm picky altogether but it shows up differently. In the world of "dating" there's all that pressure to perform and be an ideal person, and it's easier for BOTH sides to use those lists in their heads to release what could be something awesome.


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## nreynolds1990 (Jan 8, 2012)

I wasn't trying to be apologetic I was trying to make a point roud: 
Looks like it came off that way though, thanks for the encouragement though


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## Svensenberg (May 13, 2012)

musician gal said:


> thank you so much for the encouragement!!!
> 
> and where do non-shy INTP's like yourself hang out? how can I meet INTP's?


No problem at all. And as for where to meet the more some of the less-shy INTP types, it really depends on what their interests are. You could find me alone writing and reading, out hiking/fishing/camping, going to an indie film/music festival or a book signing, because those are the things that follow my interests. Typical "pick up" places like bars or whatever probably won't cut it, even INTP's who aren't as typically shy as others don't really "get out" much in the normal sense. We'll either be busy working in our own little world of interests or ideas or out doing something to further those interests or ideas. 

Hope this is helping somewhat


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## JoetheBull (Apr 29, 2010)

musician gal said:


> So, basically ya'll love tech stuff?


Some of yes, but I do know an INTP that is more of a musician. A very good one too.


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## Svensenberg (May 13, 2012)

JoetheBull said:


> Some of yes, but I do know an INTP that is more of a musician. A very good one too.


Yep, we're out there but kinda rare. It seems like the majority of INTP's are into technology and math, but I'm more of a music and literature guy


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## saibot (May 21, 2012)

INTPs also tend to be found in Philosophy...


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## nreynolds1990 (Jan 8, 2012)

JoetheBull said:


> Some of yes, but I do know an INTP that is more of a musician. A very good one too.


I'm a musician and music producer


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## musician gal (Jul 11, 2011)

Svensenberg said:


> No problem at all. And as for where to meet the more some of the less-shy INTP types, it really depends on what their interests are. You could find me alone writing and reading, out hiking/fishing/camping, going to an indie film/music festival or a book signing, because those are the things that follow my interests. Typical "pick up" places like bars or whatever probably won't cut it, even INTP's who aren't as typically shy as others don't really "get out" much in the normal sense. We'll either be busy working in our own little world of interests or ideas or out doing something to further those interests or ideas.
> 
> Hope this is helping somewhat


ugh! so, if ya'll don't get out much it will be hard to meet INTP's! -I don't do the bar scene either. I hate drunken guys picking me up; they're usually shallow and only interested in one thing....and I can't stand drunks. So, I guess I need to cruise tech places or Game Stop? lol ;-)


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## musician gal (Jul 11, 2011)

nreynolds1990 said:


> I'm a musician and music producer


cool! what instruments do you play?


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## musician gal (Jul 11, 2011)

Svensenberg said:


> Yep, we're out there but kinda rare. It seems like the majority of INTP's are into technology and math, but I'm more of a music and literature guy


what kind of music are you into? -and you like books...so, you tend to go to Barnes and Noble?


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## Svensenberg (May 13, 2012)

musician gal said:


> ugh! so, if ya'll don't get out much it will be hard to meet INTP's! -I don't do the bar scene either. I hate drunken guys picking me up; they're usually shallow and only interested in one thing....and I can't stand drunks. So, I guess I need to cruise tech places or Game Stop? lol ;-)


Haha well like I say it depends on their interests... sounds like you would rather hang with me at Guitar Center than at Game Stop :wink:


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## musician gal (Jul 11, 2011)

nreynolds1990 said:


> I wasn't trying to be apologetic I was trying to make a point roud:
> Looks like it came off that way though, thanks for the encouragement though


I didn't feel you were being apologetic....I thought you seemed like you wanted to explain how you are to explain INTP male type of thinking? -that's what I felt? I might had misunderstood like the person that thought you were apologetic?


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## Svensenberg (May 13, 2012)

musician gal said:


> what kind of music are you into? -and you like books...so, you tend to go to Barnes and Noble?


I enjoy all styles, but my biggest love will always be metal. I was raised on blues though so I'm so much more diverse than your stereotypical shred head... thank my dad for that.

As for books, I love reading and writing fiction and nonfiction. I have a few short stories and essays I'm working on right now, I just finishedAtlas Shrugged, it was good but I sort of disagreed with some of the philosophical stuff. I live out in the boonies so I can't hang out at the book store like I would love to, but you bet I stop by there when I'm in town for something.


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## musician gal (Jul 11, 2011)

Svensenberg said:


> Haha well like I say it depends on their interests... sounds like you would rather hang with me at Guitar Center than at Game Stop :wink:


exactly!!!!! I have 5 guitars (1 classical, two electric, two acoustic: 4 are Epiphone, the classical is an Ibanez). Bought my keyboard there, too. -so, most def! let's go to Guitar Center now!


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## Svensenberg (May 13, 2012)

musician gal said:


> exactly!!!!! I have 5 guitars (1 classical, two electric, two acoustic: 4 are Epiphone, the classical is an Ibanez). Bought my keyboard there, too. -so, most def! let's go to Guitar Center now!


Very cool. I have a Carvin and a Fender Squire for my electrics, and I just recently picked up a Yamaha acoustic off of Craigslist for 40 bucks! It was basically brand new. I was stoked


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## musician gal (Jul 11, 2011)

Svensenberg said:


> I enjoy all styles, but my biggest love will always be metal. I was raised on blues though so I'm so much more diverse than your stereotypical shred head... thank my dad for that.
> 
> As for books, I love reading and writing fiction and nonfiction. I have a few short stories and essays I'm working on right now, I just finishedAtlas Shrugged, it was good but I sort of disagreed with some of the philosophical stuff. I live out in the boonies so I can't hang out at the book store like I would love to, but you bet I stop by there when I'm in town for something.


wow, Metal? so, an Ozzy and Metallica fan? I like alternative country, Indie bands, some classic rock, some pop, blues,...my top fav's: 

John Mayer, Jakob Dylan/The Wallflowers, Jeff Buckley, etc. 

-funny, I took a Philosophy class back in college! -so, maybe I need to hang in the Philosophy section at the good ole Barnes and Noble?! -I do find Philosophy and Physics quite interesting!!! -tho very difficult!!!


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## nreynolds1990 (Jan 8, 2012)

musician gal said:


> cool! what instruments do you play?


Guitar, Bass, Synthesizer, Laptop Computer as demostrated Soul Surfer (Remastered) by Nathaniel Diego on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free


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## Svensenberg (May 13, 2012)

musician gal said:


> wow, Metal? so, an Ozzy and Metallica fan? I like alternative country, Indie bands, some classic rock, some pop, blues,...my top fav's:
> 
> John Mayer, Jakob Dylan/The Wallflowers, Jeff Buckley, etc.
> 
> -funny, I took a Philosophy class back in college! -so, maybe I need to hang in the Philosophy section at the good ole Barnes and Noble?! -I do find Philosophy and Physics quite interesting!!! -tho very difficult!!!


Ozzy and Metallica are great, but I pretty much like all kinds of metal. I just have really weird musical tastes, I enjoy Cannibal Corpse and Necrophagist just as much as Dylan or Mayer. The only form of music I don't really like is rap


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## musician gal (Jul 11, 2011)

Svensenberg said:


> Ozzy and Metallica are great, but I pretty much like all kinds of metal. I just have really weird musical tastes, I enjoy Cannibal Corpse and Necrophagist just as much as Dylan or Mayer. The only form of music I don't really like is rap


I'm with you on that! I HAAAAAAAATE rap! -unless it's the Beastie Boys....but other than them....hate it!!! it's so repetitive and lame! 

I have never heard of the artists that you like. -I'll have to look them up on the ole Youtube!


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## musician gal (Jul 11, 2011)

nreynolds1990 said:


> Guitar, Bass, Synthesizer, Laptop Computer as demostrated Soul Surfer (Remastered) by Nathaniel Diego on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free


is that you on guitar? very cool....very unique! sounds like a mix of funk, jazz, and new age! I like it a lot!!!!! you're talented mr INTP!


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## nreynolds1990 (Jan 8, 2012)

musician gal said:


> is that you on guitar? very cool....very unique! sounds like a mix of funk, jazz, and new age! I like it a lot!!!!! you're talented mr INTP!


Its me on everything xD I do everything by myself in my music


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## Svensenberg (May 13, 2012)

musician gal said:


> I'm with you on that! I HAAAAAAAATE rap! -unless it's the Beastie Boys....but other than them....hate it!!! it's so repetitive and lame!
> 
> I have never heard of the artists that you like. -I'll have to look them up on the ole Youtube!


I won't feel bad if you find it not to your liking, it's something of an acquired taste for most but that kind of music has always held such power for me. roud:

Perhaps a group that is less extreme and probably more familiar is System of a Down, another of my favorites.


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## musician gal (Jul 11, 2011)

Svensenberg said:


> I won't feel bad if you find it not to your liking, it's something of an acquired taste for most but that kind of music has always held such power for me. roud:
> 
> Perhaps a group that is less extreme and probably more familiar is System of a Down, another of my favorites.


yeah, I know System of a Down. -you probably like Godsmack? the current metal vs the 80's and 90's is way better. -I have a friend from England that is always swapping music with me and sends me metal music...he likes a lot of metal mixed with Irish sounds....metal with opera....metal that I've never heard of! I'll have to post a link to one of the songs.


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## musician gal (Jul 11, 2011)

nreynolds1990 said:


> Its me on everything xD I do everything by myself in my music


wow!!!! you play all those instruments?! -okay, you won't be single for long! girls love guys with guitars!


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## Svensenberg (May 13, 2012)

musician gal said:


> yeah, I know System of a Down. -you probably like Godsmack? the current metal vs the 80's and 90's is way better. -I have a friend from England that is always swapping music with me and sends me metal music...he likes a lot of metal mixed with Irish sounds....metal with opera....metal that I've never heard of! I'll have to post a link to one of the songs.


Godsmack are okay, I generally like the bands that you won't hear on the rock stations though. Lamb of God is probably my favorite metal band


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## Svensenberg (May 13, 2012)

Since we're being bold and showing our talent... 

This was just completely off the wall and it happened to be the first video I found haha. This was me breaking my Craigslist acoustic in.. you can kind of see the blues/metal influences. Nothing as polished as @*nreynolds1990, *that was pretty cool man.


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## nreynolds1990 (Jan 8, 2012)

musician gal said:


> wow!!!! you play all those instruments?! -okay, you won't be single for long! girls love guys with guitars!


I play guitar, bass, and keyboard and I am able to sing quite good actually but I don't sing on my music. I use Native Instruments Maschine for my drums. Its kind of like an MPC which is probably gibberish if you don't know production. Basically its a glorified drum machine that you have a lot of control over. I make songs all the time, this is the new one I'm working on It's Just a Passing Thing (Work in Progress) by Nathaniel Diego on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free


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## musician gal (Jul 11, 2011)

Svensenberg said:


> Godsmack are okay, I generally like the bands that you won't hear on the rock stations though. Lamb of God is probably my favorite metal band


here's the link to what my English friend shared with me:


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## musician gal (Jul 11, 2011)

Svensenberg said:


> Since we're being bold and showing our talent...
> 
> This was just completely off the wall and it happened to be the first video I found haha. This was me breaking my Craigslist acoustic in.. you can kind of see the blues/metal influences. Nothing as polished as @*nreynolds1990, *that was pretty cool man.


wowzer!!!! you're really good!!!! acoustic can make any ole song sound good.....even metal!


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## Svensenberg (May 13, 2012)

How interesting! This is definitely different than the usual stuff I listen to. I do really like metal bands with women singers though


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## Svensenberg (May 13, 2012)

musician gal said:


> wowzer!!!! you're really good!!!! acoustic can make any ole song sound good.....even metal!


Thanks  it seems like a lot of my friends who play metal only learned to burn through scales at the speed of light, they never really learned good tone and technique


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## musician gal (Jul 11, 2011)

nreynolds1990 said:


> I play guitar, bass, and keyboard and I am able to sing quite good actually but I don't sing on my music. I use Native Instruments Maschine for my drums. Its kind of like an MPC which is probably gibberish if you don't know production. Basically its a glorified drum machine that you have a lot of control over. I make songs all the time, this is the new one I'm working on It's Just a Passing Thing (Work in Progress) by Nathaniel Diego on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free


very cool! -I sing better than I play instruments...but all of my music was on my macbook pro which was stolen when my home was robbed last year....ugh...my best vocal work, too....was sooooo upset!!! -my vocal professor was an awesome Korean woman....she really helped me to grow! you're very talented!!!! keep at it! -that song sounds like it belongs in a dance club!


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## nreynolds1990 (Jan 8, 2012)

Svensenberg said:


> Since we're being bold and showing our talent...
> 
> This was just completely off the wall and it happened to be the first video I found haha. This was me breaking my Craigslist acoustic in.. you can kind of see the blues/metal influences. Nothing as polished as @*nreynolds1990, *that was pretty cool man.


Cool, I'm actually a blues guitarist as my main style. Which is cleverly masked in my music by the synths and the dubstep and drum & bass influenced drums hahaha. But if you hear me just play guitar sounds like I belong in a blues club. This group is one of my biggest influences though if you understand this style of music you understand why my music is the way it is. I kind of took the style and molded it to my own. Less synths more guitar slowed down and put in some touches of other genres Blu Mar Ten - All Thoughts Are Prayers (Marcus Intalex remix) by Blu Mar Ten on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free


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## musician gal (Jul 11, 2011)

nreynolds1990 said:


> Cool, I'm actually a blues guitarist as my main style. Which is cleverly masked in my music by the synths and the dubstep and drum & bass influenced drums hahaha. But if you hear me just play guitar sounds like I belong in a blues club. This group is one of my biggest influences though if you understand this style of music you understand why my music is the way it is. I kind of took the style and molded it to my own. Less synths more guitar slowed down and put in some touches of other genres Blu Mar Ten - All Thoughts Are Prayers (Marcus Intalex remix) by Blu Mar Ten on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free


wow, never heard of this band.....

so, I'm curious....are you hoping to do music for movies or something? what's your goal? sounds pretty specific if you leave the blues for this! -would love to hear some blues from you! -I can see tho from your personality why you like the synth and dance music....it's very technical and not as emotional as blues and other forms of music? does that make sense? -I def listen to music that mostly fits my mood and personality....the deeper the songwriting and emotion....the more I love it! Freddie Mercury is one of my musical influences! as well as Led Zep, etc. 

-are you into Lady Gaga and stuff like that? she has some good stuff. -even a couple INFJ's like her on the forum.


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## nreynolds1990 (Jan 8, 2012)

musician gal said:


> wow, never heard of this band.....
> 
> so, I'm curious....are you hoping to do music for movies or something? what's your goal? sounds pretty specific if you leave the blues for this! -would love to hear some blues from you! -I can see tho from your personality why you like the synth and dance music....it's very technical and not as emotional as blues and other forms of music? does that make sense? -I def listen to music that mostly fits my mood and personality....the deeper the songwriting and emotion....the more I love it! Freddie Mercury is one of my musical influences! as well as Led Zep, etc.
> 
> -are you into Lady Gaga and stuff like that? she has some good stuff. -even a couple INFJ's like her on the forum.


I just want to make good music that I like and hopefully that others like too and actually I think that dance music can be emotional it fills me with emotion lol lots of songs do actually but its different than a blues song. Blues song just sounds like someone is singing about their emotions and translating it into awesome guitar playing and song. Genres like Intelligent Drum & Bass which is what Blu Mar Ten is and Liquid Drum & Bass feels different...it feels like it is reverberating in your soul and almost like you are the song and the song is you, like you are one in the same...but then again that could be the sub bass lol.

I'm not a Little Monster lol I think Lady Gaga has some good songs but a lot of her stuff sound manufactured. Its not like the same feeling as what I listen to

Oh this is Liquid Drum & Bass. This group is probably my biggest influence London Elektricity


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## Svensenberg (May 13, 2012)

So... @*musician gal, *show us some of your musical magic!


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## musician gal (Jul 11, 2011)

Svensenberg said:


> So... @*musician gal, *show us some of your musical magic!


I so wish I could.....my macbook pro had all my music on it...and it was stolen when my apt was robbed last year.  -I am still so upset about it! eventually I'll work up the courage to make music and stuff  sorry that I don't have anything to share! but I appreciate that ya'll shared! you are def talented on the acoustic!


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## Svensenberg (May 13, 2012)

musician gal said:


> I so wish I could.....my macbook pro had all my music on it...and it was stolen when my apt was robbed last year.  -I am still so upset about it! eventually I'll work up the courage to make music and stuff  sorry that I don't have anything to share! but I appreciate that ya'll shared! you are def talented on the acoustic!


What a bummer! That is almost too lame for words. You can't recreate some of the stuff that you do in a certain moment. I need to get on this amazing SoundCloud website that everyone seems to be using... I have tons of videos and recordings of me just noodling around like that one, and I've come up with a few good riffs and strung them together but I haven't really put my own songs together that begin and end, I'm just too flighty I guess. A free site like that is a pretty good reason to 

And thank you!! I really only got the acoustic a few weeks ago, other than that I have pretty much only played the electric.


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## Kyandigaru (Mar 11, 2012)

Arclight said:


> I myself don't like to use the word "never" since anything is possible.
> Also I know some broken men who did not become spiteful but rather developed more empathy and sensitivity toward others.
> Like a friend once told me.. "When all of this is over and you have healed, you will know compassion like you never have before."
> When I asked her "why" all she said was "I can see it in your eyes."
> ...


I've waited on the sex and still got screwed over. Waiting to have sex don't always guarantee a promising relationship, but I understand your point. There have been many women who've heard the sobs stories from men where they have been used and a abused and still later one realized the guy had trust issues.

There's no way of knowing the outcome of a person. You can wait it out to have sex or even be his friend and the outcome can still be shitty.


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## Erbse (Oct 15, 2010)

Women are boring, there's no need to play them.

Well, let me rectify that statement, people are boring.


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## Mutatio NOmenis (Jun 22, 2009)

Marac said:


> I used to be a "nice guy" that some girls liked, but no one was particularly attracted to.
> 
> After I lost my virginity at 19, I started learning about "the game" and picking up women.
> 
> But along as you use your powers for good and not for evil, its fine! :happy:


I'm a virginal virgin of a nice guy, but I use my powers for war. Does fighting against the drug trade count as good or evil?


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## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

musician gal said:


> sooooo....where's the real men at? why are so many men such "players" and manipulative man-whores?
> 
> where do men that want a real relationship that is of depth and of meaning tend to hang out?
> 
> ...


You are just going to get bogged down asking this question. I suggest you just realize they are idiots and they are not worth you getting upset over and find men who make you realize how God made men to be. They are out there and believe it or not, despite all of the dirty embarrassing excuses some men make, there are quite a bit of dirty women too and it is those kinds of women, and the kind of women who make up excuses for their sons and tell them this is just how men behave, are the kind who raise this garbage. Its intelligence, maturity, and priorities. 

I would say though, one thing they all seem to have in common, is that they are all irresponsible. Even if they seem responsible, I have never seen a "player" who had their act together. They may carry on a career and sort of put on a front, but I guarantee you if you had one conversation with any of them other than what they are immediately good at, such as work, even there though its sometimes obvious, but outside of that you quickly, always notice a lack of responsibility immediately. They are the biggest whiny babies, can't handle anybody telling them what to do, only pay the bills if they can't get out of it and they wont go to jail or it affect their credit or for some other selfish reason, nickle and dime employees, with lots of other low down dirty tricks going on in their life too. Oh and they talk with such desperation. They are needy little boys who will contract whatever std possible and have to pay child support to many different women all to say "I am the most barbaric, competitive, cave man of them all." They never left college or high school and they are still trying to impress the frat boys they didn't get a chance to impress before they so call "made it big", which they are usually only big in their mind, but deep down they know they are pathetic, fucking little pansies and even a woman could kick their ass and send them on an emotional narcissistic suicidal breakdown. You question this? Well I have never seen otherwise. So to the little boys who probably more than likely decided to reply with barbaric brags, grow up, because this is how you really look.


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## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

Oh, and they lie about the most rediculous of things. Not just to women, but to their friends, the neighbors, grandparents, and everyone, about the weather, the dog, butterflies, Uzbekistan, you name it. You give them a compliment to be kind and they interpret it to mean something more than it is and reply with massive rediculous meaningless compliments. They believe all kindness and relationships have more meaning than they really do. They don't have a clue what love is. They think that it is some good feeling that just mysteriously happens out of thin air and it can be replaced. It is basicly the classic characteristics of a personality disorder and there really should be a personality disorder for it.


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## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

And they can't take on any job. They may be good at something, but they are very limited to what they can do, due to failing, crying, and quiting because they can't keep up with real men or even a lot of women for that matter. So they make up for it through the weaker sex. The more wounded and pathetic he is, the more women he needs.


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## redmanXNTP (May 17, 2011)

Erbse said:


> Women are boring,


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## Erbse (Oct 15, 2010)

redmanXNTP said:


>


Thus why I rectified the statement :mellow:


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## setzer (Mar 31, 2012)

Kyandigaru said:


> I've talked to a couple of men that were broken and trust me they NEVER fix themselves. Never really get over the pain. And sometimes in a few cases, they turn the pain into spiteful emotional attacks to random women they want to "date".


That's just harsh.

I'm skeptical about relationships because of how I've been treated. Earlier I was used as a emergency caregiver whilst she found someone else. Which I was too blind to see.
Sure sex is all good and dandy but I want something more then that. I want to be able to connect on a deeper level. I want to understand you and I want you to be able and willing to understand me! Without that I would have a really tough time being in a relationship with anyone.

I haven't consider myself suitable for a relationship for quite a while now and I was hiding myself as I was having recurring bouts of serious depression and identity crisis. I would never want to push that onto someone, and at the very least someone I love at that. I would feel even more depressed over the fact that I made them worry. 
I try to better myself each and everyday. 

I'm tired of listening to people boasting over the strangest things. I mean snuffboxes? Really? Condom wrappers? REALLY?


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## MalloryC (May 29, 2012)

It's easy being an INFJ to not stand up for things, we tend to be somewhat passive to avoid conflict. I know when I first started dating I did this, then I slowly started calling out my fiance on his bull. Nothing major, but if I ever felt somehow slighted or he would make up an excuse that I could see right through I told him. I think I actually shocked and amazed him at how easily I could read his actions and words, he's not used to that. He seemed somewhat proud of me that I could call him out. I think the best advice for any single person out there of any personality is to just be happy being single, not that you will never meet anyone, but enjoy getting to know yourself, you'll appreciate that you took that time when you have found the right person.


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## musician gal (Jul 11, 2011)

redmanXNTP said:


>


ewwwww! I'm def not "thanking" this one...lol...yuk!


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## musician gal (Jul 11, 2011)

setzer said:


> That's just harsh.
> 
> I'm skeptical about relationships because of how I've been treated. Earlier I was used as a emergency caregiver whilst she found someone else. Which I was too blind to see.
> Sure sex is all good and dandy but I want something more then that. I want to be able to connect on a deeper level. I want to understand you and I want you to be able and willing to understand me! Without that I would have a really tough time being in a relationship with anyone.
> ...


-I don't know what a "snuffbox" is? but I'd rather not know...sounds icky in the context of having it with condom wrappers. 

anyway, you're never going to be 100%....and maybe there is a woman that is okay with you having bouts of depression...it's sort of part of who we are as INFJ's....we tend to see so much....and feel so much...and then feel so lonely, etc. -You are def being overly perfectionistic on yourself....cut yourself a break....I'm sure you do that for others...you deserve the same courtesy. 

-I can def relate to being used as "an emergency caregiver" -my ex used me for free "counseling" too much...but I know it is not up to me to "fix" anyone or save them....they have to chose that for themselves and put themselves on a road that is positive where they can grow as a person....

-I don't expect people to be 100% and to not have baggage....but they need to accept us INFJ's and to work on their baggage and not just use us for our compassion and service oriented pleaser behaviors.....

-there is a woman out there for you that will appreciate and love you! don't give up! and start accepting and loving yourself (imperfections and all)....at least you are aware of your imperfections (depression) and are considerate enough to not want to burden anyone...but it's better to share it than to bare it alone in this world....

-just my thoughts...I'm sure there will be a ton of peeps that don't agree with my opinions....

anyway, hang in, my friend


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## musician gal (Jul 11, 2011)

Erbse said:


> Women are boring, there's no need to play them.
> 
> Well, let me rectify that statement, people are boring.


ha! I'm far from boring and I'm a woman! roar! -but I'm glad you don't play women....it's wrong to do that...we are human beings!


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## musician gal (Jul 11, 2011)

Cleo said:


> You are just going to get bogged down asking this question. I suggest you just realize they are idiots and they are not worth you getting upset over and find men who make you realize how God made men to be. They are out there and believe it or not, despite all of the dirty embarrassing excuses some men make, there are quite a bit of dirty women too and it is those kinds of women, and the kind of women who make up excuses for their sons and tell them this is just how men behave, are the kind who raise this garbage. Its intelligence, maturity, and priorities.
> 
> I would say though, one thing they all seem to have in common, is that they are all irresponsible. Even if they seem responsible, I have never seen a "player" who had their act together. They may carry on a career and sort of put on a front, but I guarantee you if you had one conversation with any of them other than what they are immediately good at, such as work, even there though its sometimes obvious, but outside of that you quickly, always notice a lack of responsibility immediately. They are the biggest whiny babies, can't handle anybody telling them what to do, only pay the bills if they can't get out of it and they wont go to jail or it affect their credit or for some other selfish reason, nickle and dime employees, with lots of other low down dirty tricks going on in their life too. Oh and they talk with such desperation. They are needy little boys who will contract whatever std possible and have to pay child support to many different women all to say "I am the most barbaric, competitive, cave man of them all." They never left college or high school and they are still trying to impress the frat boys they didn't get a chance to impress before they so call "made it big", which they are usually only big in their mind, but deep down they know they are pathetic, fucking little pansies and even a woman could kick their ass and send them on an emotional narcissistic suicidal breakdown. You question this? Well I have never seen otherwise. So to the little boys who probably more than likely decided to reply with barbaric brags, grow up, because this is how you really look.


lmao! a tad on the Judger of the INFJ side...hahaha! -I totally agree with your words, but it did make me laugh....I saw a lot of myself in your rant....I do this exact same thing when I'm aggravated, annoyed and hurt. 

I totally agree that "players" are men that don't have their act together. -I was reading a lot of on-line articles about men that live with their parents that are in their 30's, etc. and obviously their mom's want to keep them in the baby role and not allow them to grow up....and the men like it that way....they don't want to be responsible and don't have to be since mommy doesn't enforce and encourage normal behaviors of being independent, responsible, and moving on with their life....etc. -They use women, because they don't value them and instead see them as objects instead of as people....and use the excuse of having their heart broken one time by one woman....please....I've had my heart broken countless times....you dust yourself off and get back on the horse and try again....Also most "players" that either I have unfortunately encountered or my girlfriends have dated....all seem to be verbally abusive, etc. because they are so spoiled and rotten to their core....they have no self respect and def don't believe in treating people with respect and consideration....no manners...just rude all around...and so selfish...they tend to take until their's nothing left to take...then they prey upon the next to suck dry....

but I think it's a shame....it's like Gen X and Gen Y men have given up and would rather just be a man-child than a man! I am sad that so many exist....but if not for these sorts....we wouldn't have fuel for great movies like Will Ferrell's "Step Brothers" and Matthew McConaughey's "Failure to Launch"...ha!


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## musician gal (Jul 11, 2011)

Cleo said:


> And they can't take on any job. They may be good at something, but they are very limited to what they can do, due to failing, crying, and quiting because they can't keep up with real men or even a lot of women for that matter. So they make up for it through the weaker sex. The more wounded and pathetic he is, the more women he needs.


wow, so true....never thought about it like that....you're right...they can't keep a stable job...they usually quit....and it makes sense that they have to have more women to boost their loser ego's...lol. -funny, but true!!!!


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## musician gal (Jul 11, 2011)

Razare said:


> Granted, I'm sort of stuck between generations, so I've always found it a strange place to be. As a guy, I'm pretty much stuck dating women younger than me.
> 
> It's a very rare instance to meet a woman younger than me who has it all-together... there's only one I can think of. They generally end up relationships pretty easy because guys recognize they're worth it. I'm not really talking about looks either, but rather a levelheadedness that manifests all too infrequently.
> 
> A friend of mine said that you have to wait until your 30's to have a real relationship, she's probably right.


I don't get why you say you "HAVE" to and are "stuck" dating women younger than you....why not stick to your age range 27-30? -and I don't get why you believe you have to be 30 to have a real relationship? -I have friends from grad school that are 23, married, and are expecting their first child! -it's all about perception, acceptance, maturity and not having such high expectations of women that you give up on them. -if you're not mentally ready that's one thing...but age has no affect on it. -although, yes, women in their early 20's can be flakey....I was....and I wasn't ready to settle down at that age....I knew I could date and meet different guys as I was trying to find myself and work on my education and career. -women your own age usually are finished with school and know what they want and do have it together....I have co-workers your age...one is married with 2 kids...the other is single...

not trying to criticize you....just trying to make you think....I know you're a great guy...but it's cuz I've seen your other comments on threads before....but for a woman that may visit this thread that doesn't know you....she may think your comment is a bit egotistical.


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## Erbse (Oct 15, 2010)

musician gal said:


> ha! I'm far from boring and I'm a woman! roar! -but I'm glad you don't play women....it's wrong to do that...we are human beings!


Exactly! Everyone's a unique snowflake.


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## Razare (Apr 21, 2009)

musician gal said:


> I don't get why you say you "HAVE" to and are "stuck" dating women younger than you....why not stick to your age range 27-30? -and I don't get why you believe you have to be 30 to have a real relationship? -I have friends from grad school that are 23, married, and are expecting their first child! -it's all about perception, acceptance, maturity and not having such high expectations of women that you give up on them. -if you're not mentally ready that's one thing...but age has no affect on it. -although, yes, women in their early 20's can be flakey....I was....and I wasn't ready to settle down at that age....I knew I could date and meet different guys as I was trying to find myself and work on my education and career. -women your own age usually are finished with school and know what they want and do have it together....I have co-workers your age...one is married with 2 kids...the other is single...
> 
> not trying to criticize you....just trying to make you think....I know you're a great guy...but it's cuz I've seen your other comments on threads before....but for a woman that may visit this thread that doesn't know you....she may think your comment is a bit egotistical.


It's not a restriction imposed by me, it's a restriction imposed by nearly every woman I have met.

Yes, women will date their own age and younger, but I've found them to more rigidly define what they'll date in the ranges below them.

You had a key-word in there, "maturity". 

I'm not mature enough for a woman who is 30, plain and simple. Since they wont view me as mature enough for them, 90% of women of that age who care about maturity, wont date me.

A woman who is 22 may view me as mature in comparison to where she's at in her life, and so, she'll find me acceptable.

I'd be the first one willing to date my age or higher  It's just never happened, and I don't think that'll change.

And I know some women don't want to believe this to be true, but statistics would back it. :|

PS - And about being egotistical, whether I am or not, or if I'm viewed that way, it doesn't bother me. This happens on this forum often. I share something I know and I get objections that the world isn't really that way, or that what I'm saying isn't politically correct... I generally only concede my points if I'm given objective data that proves me wrong. The problem is that in this realm, it pretty much comes down to statistics.

I understand very well that yes, there's a woman out there who loves dating younger men of all sorts. That's all fine and good, I'm just concerned with the women I've met in life, not statistical anomalies.


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## setzer (Mar 31, 2012)

musician gal said:


> -I don't know what a "snuffbox" is? but I'd rather not know...sounds icky in the context of having it with condom wrappers.
> 
> anyway, you're never going to be 100%....and maybe there is a woman that is okay with you having bouts of depression...it's sort of part of who we are as INFJ's....we tend to see so much....and feel so much...and then feel so lonely, etc. -You are def being overly perfectionistic on yourself....cut yourself a break....I'm sure you do that for others...you deserve the same courtesy.
> 
> ...


Well "Snuffbox" or snusdosa(snusbox? haha) in swedish. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/aa/Snusdosa.jpg
Basically an box with tobacco, which you have under your lip. 
People were bragging about collecting them...

I'm not saying I will be 100% and no one is. Thing is, I would feel like a burden if this were to show up every couple of months which it has been doing for quite some time. Even if someone would like to help me get through those bouts of depression I would feel terrible because I haven't done anything about it earlier.

Food for thought. Thanks. :happy:


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## bellisaurius (Jan 18, 2012)

I used to be bitter about guys taking advantage of women because of all the women who were getting hurt around me, but then I realized I had it all messed up. I was bitter at women for not picking me, the guy who was obviously better. 

After a couple years of this folly, I realized I was the true jerky manipulator, having manipulated myself into the hero of my own story. 

Moral of the story: Be careful what you wish for. Guys who want to get into a relationship can be just as messed up; and worse, they can cause more harm than the womanizers because you'll actually give a shit about them when you find out they don't respect you.


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## JakeDK (Jun 27, 2011)

Well..

This is a tough question. Many of the guys that you percieve as players or cheaters does not necessarily mean to do so. They want to find someone. And so they are looking alot of places. So they meet many different people. You could happen to be one of the women they meet. Along with many other women. In the process of meeting many different women, they learn that not all women are nice. Not all women have good intentions for them. And alot of the women are equally as manipulative. A typical thing that women will do is playing Cold or Hard-To-Get.

So a woman playing cold or hard-to-get is actually sending a signal to the guy, that she is not really interested in him. The guys that have experienced this behaviour alot of times. Especially the guys actually playing women. Will know how to get past this "barrier" that women setup. So they end up laying the woman.

It took many years for me to become sexually active. I lost my virginity at 13 but didn't have sex again untill 18. From the age of 18 till 20 I didn't have sex. It was not that I had not been in love, cause I had. I had been in love a few times - but never succeeded.

At one point I did not have any crushs and I had become friends with a guy who was really good at getting women into bed. I found it interesting how he did. Cause he was doing simple things. I started seeing patterns and I tried to do the things myself. It became more of an interest for me to learn how "women operated" <- sounds funny. The result however was that within one year I had laid alot of women, I did not count, when I try to count how many I loose track. Some of them very good looking, some of them less.

I don't percieve myself as a player or a cheater.
1. I am actualy just trying to get to know the girl. And maybe if things work out between us we could be happy together.
2. I have never cheated anyone.

I have been rejected alot and I have been dumped too. I have been cheated on. I have been really offended by women too. They are not all nice. Some of them are really nasty. Men can be nasty too but I believe women can be atleast as nasty.

I will tell you a scenario, I have experienced repeatedly: A connection is build, we are isolated from others. We kiss. We have fun. Things are nice. However next day... When I approach her, then she will say it was just a night. She is cool and not committed. She will say "I'm not really looking for a boyfriend, I just want to be single, etc." Implying to me, that she does not want me. I learned to just respect it, listen to her, compliment her, let her do all the talking. And guess what happens? We kiss, and she says "Lets go to bed " <- So it is a test. To see if I just want to have sex or if I really like her.

If I did not know I would think "Ok, she is really weird. We kissed last night, we had so much fun. We talked for hours and now she tells me that she does not want a boyfriend." <- So you might call men players, cheaters and manipulative. But to me, the contradictions between what women do and what they say (behavior vs words) is more manipulative. *To build trust there must be congruence between actions and words. *You can look it up in defintionsbook..

And by the way I am ENFJ.


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## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

musician gal said:


> lmao! a tad on the Judger of the INFJ side...hahaha! -I totally agree with your words, but it did make me laugh....I saw a lot of myself in your rant....I do this exact same thing when I'm aggravated, annoyed and hurt.
> 
> I totally agree that "players" are men that don't have their act together. -I was reading a lot of on-line articles about men that live with their parents that are in their 30's, etc. and obviously their mom's want to keep them in the baby role and not allow them to grow up....and the men like it that way....they don't want to be responsible and don't have to be since mommy doesn't enforce and encourage normal behaviors of being independent, responsible, and moving on with their life....etc. -They use women, because they don't value them and instead see them as objects instead of as people....and use the excuse of having their heart broken one time by one woman....please....I've had my heart broken countless times....you dust yourself off and get back on the horse and try again....Also most "players" that either I have unfortunately encountered or my girlfriends have dated....all seem to be verbally abusive, etc. because they are so spoiled and rotten to their core....they have no self respect and def don't believe in treating people with respect and consideration....no manners...just rude all around...and so selfish...they tend to take until their's nothing left to take...then they prey upon the next to suck dry....
> 
> but I think it's a shame....it's like Gen X and Gen Y men have given up and would rather just be a man-child than a man! I am sad that so many exist....but if not for these sorts....we wouldn't have fuel for great movies like Will Ferrell's "Step Brothers" and Matthew McConaughey's "Failure to Launch"...ha!


I don't think I quite explained it like I meant. Yes, the way you described it hits at the main idea too, but I also meant they get babied in other ways too. It's like a deep down emotional hallmark, where the mother even disables her son by encouraging a distorted perception of reality. Like when the boy gets made fun of at school and comes home and tells his mom, she says "they do that because you are handsome" or "they are just jealous", when really he might need to work on tuning in on what is socially acceptable behavior. Or if the boy comes home upset after his teacher said he needed to develop a certain skill in writing, and rather than the mother teaching him to take criticism and work through it, she tells him "you makes the most fantastic work I have ever seen." That is normal for a mother to feel that way and she can tell him, to her he makes the best work because he is her son, but as far as growing up and producing real results, she needs to be honest for his own good. Well I have seen boys who have been lied to like this, grow up to be the biggest babies. They can produce the crappiest work and still sport it like its the best, to the point where they should be embarrassed. They even expect their friends to support their life in lala land. Its like they never faced anything even slightly painful, therefore, the smallest normal flaws or failures are terrifying. I think for men this is hard for them to repair as an adult, because they easily tune out their feelings, which are a vulnerable unfamiliar territory too, so they just continue to tune out any hint of anything that points to them being less than perfect and find other ways to cover it up.

Also I think there is a difference between being a flawed or somewhat less than self-actualized character and someone who is an all out womanizer. I don't really see someone like Bill Clinton as a womanizer. He was married to them same woman for a long time, which is a lot in itself. There was an attractive women in his office making herself available, and not that that makes him helpless and innocent, but I don't think he was compulsively seeking out these kinds of situations, and there may have been something not right in his marriage making it harder to say no to temptation. And as far as him lying to cover it up, there was a lot at stake.


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## L (Aug 12, 2011)

musician gal said:


> sooooo....where's the real men at? why are so many men such "players" and manipulative man-whores?
> 
> where do men that want a real relationship that is of depth and of meaning tend to hang out?
> 
> ...


My older cousin is an ENTJ type 3 and he is a manipulator. He was hurt pretty bad once and I wonder if that doesn't have something to do with it. I sometimes don't wonder if he doesn't believe that a vagina could cure cancer sometimes... he's one of those stereotypical men that loves sex.

I just want one person at a time because I want a friend first, you can't really be a manipulator and expect to keep such a friend. I suppose I don't like manipulation because I've been manipulated my entire life. I've also had my trust broken too many times. If somebody else trusts me I don't think I could live with myself if I broke that trust that they held in me. I guess these things tend to lead me into wanting a one on one relationship. But, I know that I have work to do on myself first, before anybody could accept me. In all honesty I'm still trying to figure out my reasoning, the best I have is that I want what I want. That's the best I have right now. INTP 5-9-4.

As for where I hang out? College, home and work. I don't have any active social life at all so good luck finding me.


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## SweetPickles (Mar 19, 2012)

Stay away from ESTP, ENTP, ENFP, ESFP and ENTJ males


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## redmanXNTP (May 17, 2011)

Erbse said:


> Exactly! Everyone's a unique snowflake.


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## redmanXNTP (May 17, 2011)

MelanieM said:


> Stay away from ESTP, ENTP, ENFP, ESFP and ENTJ males


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## Anthoric (May 31, 2012)

Kyandigaru said:


> I've talked to a couple of men that were broken and trust me they NEVER fix themselves. Never really get over the pain. And sometimes in a few cases, they turn the pain into spiteful emotional attacks to random women they want to "date". Its hard out here in the dating world, you can never be sure of who you run into and just hope you have found a decent guy who you can fall in love with...


Mm, untrue. I was a broken man, a man that spewed forth hate and rage at everything, a man that saw life take his heart and destroy it. A man that's been spit on, shit on, sit on, beat up, lost it all, danced with the devil, and come back. Here I am today in the process of rebuilding myself, and while the journey has been hard, I've vastly improved from what I used to be. Though I do have to consider the fact you may mean broken in a different way.

As for the subject, you must realize most people have no sense of honor, and very little morals. They have found ways to justify what they do, either to themselves, or to everyone around them. It dosen't help that this behavior is encouraged by society either. If/when you do meet a nice guy, the number one rule is NEVER, EVER EVER, take him for granted or try to put him down, because I gaurntee you, that if you succeed, that will be the last mistake you ever make. I consider myself a nice guy, but if someone tries to take advantage of me in some way, they will find, to their suprise, that I'm better at their stupid game than they are, and can smell it a mile away. Not saying I play games, I don't, unless someone decided to make the mistake of playing first. As for where we are, well we're everywhere, me personally I'm kind of hard to find, I'm a bit of a shut in, don't have many friends, and frankly there's not much to go out and do anyway in this area, but that's fine with me. Honestly I've never met another genuine nice guy in person, most of the onest I know are faking it so they can get fake female support or whatever the hell they're trying to get.

One thing I recommend, if you can pull it off, is to learn their game, that way you can see it comming a mile a way. For me, it was easy, for you, it may not be.


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## SweetPickles (Mar 19, 2012)

redmanXNTP said:


>


Okay just ENTPs then


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## Thomas60 (Aug 7, 2011)

MelanieM said:


> Stay away from ESTP, ENTP, ENFP, ESFP and ENTJ males


Perhaps we need to wear a metaphorical burka, because our wills are too irresistable to women :happy:


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## Mountainshepherd (Feb 23, 2012)

Regarding the sweeping judgments of those being labelled as players;

Short summary, take personal responsibility for your own role in relationship choices. Most people who get used put themselves there, kept themselves there, and rationalized away their reasons for doing so until they looked shining despite being dirt.

Regarding the motivations of so called "players" the reality of a situation is infinitely more complex than your ability to comprehend it. If you put labels on events before they happen, or define why a situation happened from only your limited view, you will always be mostly wrong and at best a little right. For every 10 guys who get called a player I'd be shocked if 1/10 actually was. 

Men and women can both play games and act in ways that seem cruel and inhuman to those who become the victims, but being a victim is a choice. Take responsibility for yourself and expect the same of those you love. The motives behind another persons actions precede you and exceed your ability to judge them. Call them what you will, but that is all you are doing calling them what you want to call them, words wasted shouting at the wind. Worse still you are dehumanizing them in the same way you claim to have been. Repeating the sins of your monsters doesn't make you more human. 

If you're always being played, take down the play me sign above your head.

Lastly, don't scream at an apple tree for being an apple tree. You knew it was an apple tree when you planted it, if you want oranges go find an orange tree and quit yelling at apples. 

Onto another topic, 

In terms of the no broken men mend themselves, I beg to differ. I was broken, not by romance mind you but life events and a weak family, and I've mended myself and continue to do so. I've achieved more positive change and self analysis than many people do in a lifetime, I didn't need anyone else to give me that push. One of the things I had to learn was that blame is valid but only sometimes, and often in ways that are hard to stomach.


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## Anthoric (May 31, 2012)

Mountainshepherd said:


> Regarding the sweeping judgments of those being labelled as players;
> 
> Short summary, take personal responsibility for your own role in relationship choices. Most people who get used put themselves there, kept themselves there, and rationalized away their reasons for doing so until they looked shining despite being dirt.
> 
> ...


Quoted for truth.


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## Mutatio NOmenis (Jun 22, 2009)

What do ya'll think of this *Coolface*
Skip the first 4 minutes to get to the rant.


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## redmanXNTP (May 17, 2011)

Mountainshepherd said:


> Regarding the sweeping judgments of those being labelled as players;
> 
> Short summary, take personal responsibility for your own role in relationship choices. Most people who get used put themselves there, kept themselves there, and rationalized away their reasons for doing so until they looked shining despite being dirt.
> 
> ...


I largely agree (and said so in my posts above), but people can still lie and fool and use others. "Love" involves letting someone in and you have to give first to get, so that means you're making yourself vulnerable. That's an environment that con men and manipulators thrive in.


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## Friday (Jun 1, 2012)

Nice guys do not finish last.

Weak guys finish last.

That's why "strong assholes" appear to get all the women and "weak carebears" cry about it.

_Tier of strength at acquiring successful or practice mating material _

-Strong Nice Guy (98%)
-Strong Asshole (66%)
-Weak Nice Guy (13%)
-Weak Asshole (3%)

So, actually, weak assholes finish last.


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## Mountainshepherd (Feb 23, 2012)

redmanXNTP said:


> I largely agree (and said so in my posts above), but people can still lie and fool and use others. "Love" involves letting someone in and you have to give first to get, so that means you're making yourself vulnerable. That's an environment that con men and manipulators thrive in.


True, as do con-women and womanipulators (coined?), there is no gender divide there it is just human behaviour. Trying to blame another group is a way of failing to acknowledge ones own role in a situation, much of the gender war is just children trying not to grow up. The more pre-judgments a person has the easier they are to manipulate.


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## SlowPoke68 (Apr 26, 2010)

Other women make themselves available. They, too, know that you don't need more than one rooster for a henhouse.


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## Hruberen (Jan 2, 2012)

I consider myself the relationship one at a time person, i'm INTP, and my reasons are that it's pretty hard for me to get into a relationship with someone, so when i'm in a relationship, I don't want them to regret choosing me. Also, I really don't feel like giving the time of day to covering my ass by dating multiple women, when one women can provide all that I need, so long as she's the right type of women.

As for where I hang out, when I first got my license I like going to the mall to try and meet some girls, but i'm too shy, so since school is now over, the places i've met new people are pretty much exclusively because of my extraverted friend who always has multiple people at his house. I met him when we were assigned to work on a project together in the 4th grade. Another friend who has a huge crush on me to the point where he can't be serious with anyone else, I met during English of freshman year. My oldest friend I met when I first moved to my current home back in kindergarten, and our parents met, we've been off and on since. My ex girlfriend is a friend of my extraverted friend's sister, though that's not how we got to know eachother, that was through facebook and texting. One friend I got acquainted with was on the bus to a private school because I got kicked out of public school due to not doing my work and being tattled on by a teacher's pet when I cursed under my breath about our teacher, and the authorities took it as a death threat, he was there just because his mom put him there. 

It turns out I was too good for bad school, but not good enough for public school, though after that I learned to hide my misbehavings, so I got sent back to public school before high school.

TLR = I meet new people through school, or through people I already know, and recently i've been going to a lot of bonfires and parties (not the illegal kinds)


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## Rakshasa (May 26, 2012)

You don't attract womanizers and manipulators, you're attracted to womanizers and manipulators. There are studies. Google the dark triad. (Rediculous name, but worth looking up.) 

I'm tired of these threads all over the internet, like every guy I date is a man-whore. Maybe it's you.


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## L (Aug 12, 2011)

Rakshasa said:


> You don't attract womanizers and manipulators, you're attracted to womanizers and manipulators. There are studies. Google the dark triad. (Rediculous name, but worth looking up.)
> 
> I'm tired of these threads all over the internet, like every guy I date is a man-whore. Maybe it's you.


I'd never heard of this, thanks, should be a nice little wikipedia expedition for a bit.


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## WolfStar (Aug 18, 2009)

Rakshasa said:


> You don't attract womanizers and manipulators, you're attracted to womanizers and manipulators. There are studies. Google the dark triad. (Rediculous name, but worth looking up.)
> 
> I'm tired of these threads all over the internet, like every guy I date is a man-whore. Maybe it's you.


Yeah, it kind of gets to the point where, if someone is having so many repeatedly bad situations, the common factor is, well...himself/herself.


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## musician gal (Jul 11, 2011)

JakeDK said:


> Well..
> 
> This is a tough question. Many of the guys that you percieve as players or cheaters does not necessarily mean to do so. They want to find someone. And so they are looking alot of places. So they meet many different people. You could happen to be one of the women they meet. Along with many other women. In the process of meeting many different women, they learn that not all women are nice. Not all women have good intentions for them. And alot of the women are equally as manipulative. A typical thing that women will do is playing Cold or Hard-To-Get.
> 
> ...


oh wow! you've had a lot of women play you! some where totally fickle and truly awful. You're very kind to be respectful and just let it roll off your back. -I have a hard time accepting that sort of thing. I've dated a lot, but I only date one man at a time with the hope that he will work out. 

the relationship that I had....well, we've known each other for 6 years. I know he's been hurt before, but it doesn't give him an excuse to come in and out of my life as he pleases....so, I've put a stop to that...I gave him the "INFJ doorslam" for a year before allowing him back in my life....then he, being an ENFP, gave me the "INFJ doorslam" lol...but I knew it was cuz he had plans to get with other women. -I read from his personality that if one doesn't have responsibilities...such as, a job or a stable relationship, etc....they they tend to be unstable in relationships. -so, it helped me to not be so angry and hurt...I understand him and it goes beyond personality....his family situation is highly dysfunctional....I love him. but knowing he will always want to play the field "for variety" as he explained and told me "they are a dime a dozen" and he doesn't care about those women...I just don't want my heart broken again. -Rejection and heartbreak for me, as an INFJ, takes so much longer to recover from.....I "INFJ doorslammed" him because it took me a whole year just to heal from him not cuz I was being cold or mean, etc. 

You seem like a good guy....I really hope that a good girl makes her way onto your path and wants a relationship and not something that lacks meaning!!!! You have a good and compassionate heart, my ENFJ friend and deserve a good girl!!!!


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## Pride88 (Jun 3, 2012)

"Maybe you are somehow.....subconsiously of course.....going for a certain type of guy.
I mean, if all of your boyfriend experiences have been terrible, than maybe you're attracted to a certain kind of guy. The douche' kind."

I think we all do this. I know on my end that all my girlfriends have been really happy, friendly, bubbly, extravagant, airhead type girls. For some reason we tend to work. When I try my hand outside of that though..... Nature reminds me to stay in my lane lol. There are just some people we can't help but be attracted to. You like players and I like slow kids.


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## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

MelanieM said:


> Stay away from ESTP, ENTP, ENFP, ESFP and ENTJ males


I don't know. I have met good and bad of all types. I just think it is easier to bully some types into being faithful and others wont be phased by it, but their hearts are still in the wrong place.


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## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

musician gal said:


> yep, I've seen slutty women that do this sort of disgusting behavior. -I've seen women throw themselves at married men, too. -had a co-worker tell me it was a "game" to her to go after married men to see if she could "take them away"....repulsive behavior!!!!


Amen. Hookers... Free hookers.


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## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> why don't try a role reversal, look for a guy who you find attractive/well taken care of and ask _him_ out


A lady does not pursue men. That's why.


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## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

Rakshasa said:


> You don't attract womanizers and manipulators, you're attracted to womanizers and manipulators. There are studies. Google the dark triad. (Rediculous name, but worth looking up.)
> 
> I'm tired of these threads all over the internet, like every guy I date is a man-whore. Maybe it's you.


 @WolfStar @Rakshasa
I think that is not only negative, but also misinterpreted. Emotional women are often attracted to charged unemotional men. These kind of men, often 3s and 8s, when they are unhealthy, sexually, which is common in our culture, can be very abusive with women. Add to the fact that women don't have a lot of support when it comes to dating, and we are naturally subjective to our feelings, making us vulnerable to these situations. So lets not make those kinds of statements. There are a lot of women crying over what those #[email protected] are relishing in.

If you think someone should be better about preventing this stuff, rather than making them feel worse, maybe you could step in and try to defend them, help them in the dating process, or provide support. Maybe she is learning from her mistakes. But people are still vulnerable. That is a quality that comes with being relational, even for some of the most guarded people out there. The blame should never be taken off the predator and placed on the victim. I can say though, it can feel good as a woman, to take on these kinds of struggles and make it past, because a lot of men couldn't. They could never deal with a man dominating them and making them feel so undignified, in the worst ways, including sexually, the way men do to us. To me, I don't see rape as being any different than using women. When our culture starts having more self-respect, people will be able to understand that. Dominating men's daughters and wives have been the ultimate power play from the beginning of time all across the world. Furthermore, I can say that through my hardships, there are probably still not a lot of women who have the kind of self-respect I have, that don't allow men to treat them like a doormat, because they are so desperate for approval by any man who will pretend to give it. I want to wait until I am married to be even slightly sexual and I don't tell people that, but the vibe is there, and even that doesn't make me invincible.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Cleo said:


> A lady does not pursue men. That's why.


I hope you're joking

in the event that you are not: then a "lady" is going to end up with whoever the first guy who has the balls to ask out, and many times, this is an asshole, a womanizer or an aggressive jerk. I have known plenty of "ladies" who thought that asking a guy out was below them, and several of them have ended up with spouses that beat them or treat them like a toy. as unfortunate as that may sound, they are responsible for the choices that allowed controlling me into their lives. if you intend to make the same decision, turn your own up at the majority of men and only go with the first muscly hunk who asks you out, be my guest, but know you'll only have yourself to blame when your relationship goes south and his true colors emerge. I've seen it happen a hundred times.

in the event that you _are_ joking: LOL the above does not apply to you :laughing:


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Rakshasa said:


> You don't attract womanizers and manipulators, you're attracted to womanizers and manipulators. There are studies. Google the dark triad. (Rediculous name, but worth looking up.)
> I'm tired of these threads all over the internet, like every guy I date is a man-whore. Maybe it's you.


people don't want to take responsibility for their choices. it's that simple. don't marry a donkey and expect it to perform like a racehorse


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## WolfStar (Aug 18, 2009)

Cleo said:


> stuff


There is so much sexism in your posts it's not even worth rationally responding to. Good day.


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## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

WolfStar said:


> There is so much sexism in your posts it's not even worth rationally responding to. Good day.


Are men and women not different? Is there an epidemic of women raping men in various areas of the world?


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## BimboBarbie (Jun 2, 2012)

musician gal said:


> sooooo....where's the real men at? why are so many men such "players" and manipulative man-whores?
> 
> where do men that want a real relationship that is of depth and of meaning tend to hang out?
> 
> ...


haha what type was this man?


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## WolfStar (Aug 18, 2009)

Cleo said:


> Are men and women not different? Is there an epidemic of women raping men in various areas of the world?


Thank you for reinforcing my point about being sexist and not having anything worth listening to.


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## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> people don't want to take responsibility for their choices. it's that simple. don't marry a donkey and expect it to perform like a racehorse


Some of the most responsible people out there get taken advantage of. It may or may not even have to do with marriage. Even if you don't come close to having sex with someone, you could put a lot of hope into the relationship, to find out they were only trying to get something entirely different out of you.


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## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

WolfStar said:


> Thank you for reinforcing my point about being sexist and not having anything worth listening to.


Then why are responding at all. If you are going to argue something. Tell us what on earth you are talking about, because I really don't know.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Cleo said:


> Some of the most responsible people out there get taken advantage of. It may or may not even have to do with marriage. Even if you don't come close to having sex with someone, you could put a lot of hope into the relationship, to find out they were only trying to get something entirely different out of you.


I don't disagree 
there are consequences to being a poor judge of character.


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## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> I hope you're joking
> 
> in the event that you are not: then a "lady" is going to end up with whoever the first guy who has the balls to ask out, and many times, this is an asshole, a womanizer or an aggressive jerk. I have known plenty of "ladies" who thought that asking a guy out was below them, and several of them have ended up with spouses that beat them or treat them like a toy. as unfortunate as that may sound, they are responsible for the choices that allowed controlling me into their lives. if you intend to make the same decision, turn your own up at the majority of men and only go with the first muscly hunk who asks you out, be my guest, but know you'll only have yourself to blame when your relationship goes south and his true colors emerge. I've seen it happen a hundred times.
> 
> in the event that you _are_ joking: LOL the above does not apply to you :laughing:


I like aggressive men. Aggressive, healthy, and considerate. Type 8s and 3s. I don't like muscle hunks. And just because the man is too much of a punk to cheat, doesn't mean he is anymore of a standup loyal guy. You are twisting around what I am saying and it is really insulting. Don't go crying to anyone for your problems. Or is that what you are doing right now? Are you upset, because there are women on here saying they don't like men like you?


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## BimboBarbie (Jun 2, 2012)

Cleo said:


> A lady does not pursue men. That's why.


Why not? it's the 21st century, isn't it?


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## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

BimboBarbie said:


> Why not? it's the 21st century, isn't it?


You are asking for trouble. Gender differences are no different now than they were two hundred years ago. The same struggles still go on. You need to wait for a guy to show interest in you first and let him show what kind of interest he has in you. Otherwise, you wont really know what he is up to and a lot of guys will just go with the flow of the girl making herself available, or just all out take advantage of what is being presented in a calculating way. DANGEROUS. Plus, they love to take the lead. You can still be independent and confident.


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## BimboBarbie (Jun 2, 2012)

Cleo said:


> You are asking for trouble. Gender differences are no different now than they were two hundred years ago. The same struggles still go on. You need to wait for a guy to show interest in you first and let him show what kind of interest he has in you. Otherwise, you wont really know what he is up to and a lot of guys will just go with the flow of the girl making herself available, or just all out take advantage of what is being presented in a calculating way. DANGEROUS. Plus, they love to take the lead. You can still be independent and confident.



Er how am i 'asking' for trouble it's my opinion, you stuck up bitch, shut up.


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## BimboBarbie (Jun 2, 2012)

Cleo said:


> You are asking for trouble. Gender differences are no different now than they were two hundred years ago. The same struggles still go on. You need to wait for a guy to show interest in you first and let him show what kind of interest he has in you. Otherwise, you wont really know what he is up to and a lot of guys will just go with the flow of the girl making herself available, or just all out take advantage of what is being presented in a calculating way. DANGEROUS. Plus, they love to take the lead. You can still be independent and confident.


They are different, dumbass. Feminism ANYONE?


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## Mountainshepherd (Feb 23, 2012)

Cleo said:


> Are men and women not different? Is there an epidemic of women raping men in various areas of the world?


An epidemic? I know some people use emotional language to add punch but really an epidemic? it is a poor association and not a good parallel of concepts at all. Epidemic specifically refers to a disease, and you can argue that rape is the act of a diseased mind but you still can't have an epidemic of rape.

As a gentleman I get tired of all of the rapist labeling that gets put on men, makes the effort of being fair minded seem wasted. Some men rape, some women rape as well and its not hard to find the cases just Google them. There was a sex addict in Europe recently if I recall who was raping men for hours at a time. 

Regardless men don't rape, some men rape.


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