# Frozen



## Invidia

I apologize if this has already been asked, but anyone who has seen Frozen, what types do you think the characters are? Specifically Elsa, but also Anna, Christoph, Hans, etc.


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## petite libellule

Hoping I'm not switching the names here but, Elsa (the brunette) is absolutely a type 2. I saw this with my infp friend who felt like Elsa was also INFJ and a 2. I thought her sister Anna, was a lot like my best friend who is an INFP 4w5 sp/sx. Christoph was probably a type 8 or maybe 7w8 and an ISTP or ESTP. Maybe ENTP, maaaaybe but I couldn't see an ENTP climbing any mountains to be honest haha. Hans I don't know the MBTI but I'm thinking self pres type 6w5. Maybe he was ENFJ.

The best was when my friend pointed out the snowman as a total ENFP and seriously, I think she was right! Lol!!


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## Invidia

NK said:


> Hoping I'm not switching the names here but, Elsa (the brunette) is absolutely a type 2. I saw this with my infp friend who felt like Elsa was also INFJ and a 2. I thought her sister Anna, was a lot like my best friend who is an INFP 4w5 sp/sx. Christoph was probably a type 8 or maybe 7w8 and an ISTP or ESTP. Maybe ENTP, maaaaybe but I couldn't see an ENTP climbing any mountains to be honest haha. Hans I don't know the MBTI but I'm thinking self pres type 6w5. Maybe he was ENFJ.
> 
> The best was when my friend pointed out the snowman as a total ENFP and seriously, I think she was right! Lol!!


Anna is the spunky brunette and Elsa is the ice queen. There is actually another thread elsewhere that goes into potential typing of the characters much further, and the consensus seems to be that Elsa is an INFJ, with some saying an ISTJ. As an INFP 4w5 I would love to claim Elsa, but no matter her type, I feel inextricably connected with her character.

Thank you for replying, I can link the other thread if you want to check it out


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## Lacrimosa

_"A kingdom of isolation, and it looks like....I'm the queen."_

Yes, Elsa is so far becoming my favorite Disney princess next to Ariel and Belle. I felt a connection to her when she sung "Let it Go". Anna might be an ENFP and Elsa seems INFP/INFJ.


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## Tulippa

Elsa - Yeah I agree with INFJ, I just don't see her being an INFP as much because I think she shows more Ni than Ne and definitely seems to have Fe over Fi. 

Anna - She was a bit more difficult for me because I was undecided between ENFP and ESFP... I could see both working but am leaning more towards ENFP.. 

Christoph- I think he is an ISTP. 

Hans - again kinda hard but Maybe ENTP or ENTJ.... I could see both working


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## Jennywocky

Yeah, this forum is more about reviews of the movie, not for typing the characters (which is in a different subforum).

Some people really liked this movie. I liked some of the subversive elements and the animation, but I did not really find it memorable. It was also far less cohesive. Usually in a movie this short, you have to be really tight and all the elements have to work together, but a lot of the elements did not contribute directly to plot (like the opening number -- compare it to most opening songs that establish character or establish dramatic context for the story). Olaf is cute but kind of throwaway. And the subversive "true love" twist makes Kristoff and Sven serve no real direct purpose in the plot. This is different from Disney's "Tangled," where both Rapunzel and Eugene had their own story arcs that had to be dramatically concluded and ended up concluding simultaneously; both characters were essential. 

I also don't even remember much of the music, the songs seemed mostly generic, except for sympathy generated for Anna in "Do you want to build a snowman?" (and how that song incorporates some years of plot time) and "Let it Go," which I've already heard the likes of before (most notably with Idina Menzel singing, "Defying Gravity" in Wicked, which was a much better and original song). Aside from the Snowman song (which was amusing enough to stick out), I literally cannot remember how the other songs go.

I did identify a lot with Elsa (the ultra-responsible elder daughter who hides who she is out of shame of being different and afraid of hurting others and being rejected if she reveals herself, and who shuts off emotion in order to protect everyone including herself). And the ice and snow animation was pretty amazing.

I wish they had hammered this out further before producing it. It had some good ideas but not quite shaped and honed effectively to be stand-out in the long-term.


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## Invidia

Yeah... I sorta couldn't find that forum when I went to post this; I kinda figured this was the wrong place. Mods can move, delete, or merge this with the same thread in the correct forum if they like.


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## Cheveyo

Jennywocky said:


> I did identify a lot with Elsa (the ultra-responsible elder daughter who hides who she is out of shame of being different and afraid of hurting others and being rejected if she reveals herself, and who shuts off emotion in order to protect everyone including herself). And the ice and snow animation was pretty amazing.
> 
> I wish they had hammered this out further before producing it. It had some good ideas but not quite shaped and honed effectively to be stand-out in the long-term.




I get the feeling the movie was originally supposed to feature Elsa more than it did, but the studio didn't trust it enough to let it happen. I'm betting somewhere along the line someone said it should be more like Tangled, so they pushed the focus almost entirely to Anna.


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## ThirdArcade

Hans is an ENTX.

Anna is a ENFJ or ENFP. I see more of an ENFJ quality in her.

Elsa is an INFJ for sure.

Olaf is an ESFX.


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## nevermore

Elsa like seemed a pretty obvious INFP to me.

That blond prince guy was ENFJ I'd say, ironic given his "I don't care about humans" lifestyle.

I thought Anna was probably ENFP, with very balanced Fi and Te...also interesting given the fact she's supposed to be closed off to the world.

Olaf...ESFP maybe?


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## Rhazelle

Anna is a very obvious ENFP to me since the beginning (because I am also a very strong ENFP and can see all the traits that make me an ENFP in her) and Hans is an INTJ.

This isn't the only reason - Anna most definitely throughout the whole movie is a full up ENFP to me, but this will tie in to why I also believe Hans to be an INTJ later - but when Anna and Hans had their song Love is an Open Door, Hans felt like an ENFP to me by how similar they both were and how much I could relate to that seeing as how I'm seeing another ENFP at the time (he was watching the movie with me and he agreed it was so like us as an ENFP with another ENFP). But of course they wouldn't have two ENFPs running around together in a movie, so I knew something was up. Anna is actually being genuine here - so she is actually an ENFP. Now let's look at Hans.

I see a lot of mixed MBTI guesses of what Hans is - but I am most definitely sure Hans is an INTJ if you just study him when he shows his true self.

He wanted to have his own kingdom and devised an elaborate plot to get his hands on one - one that involves sucessfully understanding and manipulating the people around him, setting up scenarios that would put him in power without anyone questioning because all his moves would be legitimate etc. He was so very calculated throughout the whole movie to the point that honestly he should've succeeded except he wasn't the main character and wasn't meant to. He is one of the most perfect examples of an INTJ antagonist (that isn't a main character) I've seen. Cold, calculating, immaculate in execution of his plans. It would be easier to tell if he was the main character but as it is, from the limited amount of what we know of his motives/goals and how he's gone about setting it all up it is very clear to me he's an INTJ. Another indication is how many personality changes he seems to have gone through since the beginning depending on the situation. When he first met Anna he was able to be almost exactly like her - an ENFP to get her attention, when he was tasked with watching over everyone he felt to me like an SJ type of sorts (I haven't studied much on them so I don't trust myself to pinpoint an exact type here). But this absolutely makes sense with that he's an INTJ when he finally reveals himself because (as far as I know), INTJs can be masters at anything to achieve their goal - including changing their personalities to fit whatever would further their goal at the time. At the beginning it was to manipulate Anna, then it was to manipulate the townspeople and others to trust him and believe him to be altruistic and good. Perfect. INTJ. Character. (Think LeLouch from Code Geass - strategic and cold when it comes down to achieving his goal but outwardly can be any personality depending on who he has to manipulate at the time)

I'm not sure if what I said was clear - I have trouble organizing my thoughts in ways that other people can understand sometimes. But I've definitely done enough extensive research and know enough ENFPs and INTJs to pretty much be 100% sure of Anna and Hans here.

Editted: Found this on Reddit which would help explain Hans' behaviour and how actually calculated his plans were. INTJ planning!

"His orignal plan was to marry Anna, then Elsa showed magic powers and froze everything. Not wanting to rule a kingdom of ice, he lets Anna go talk to Elsa, since she seemed sure she could fix it. Had that worked, a few days later Hans marries Anna, and then Elsa is found dead in her room.When the horse came back without Anna, he knew she either got ate by wolves or she got frozen as well. Then he went with plan B, get Elsa to unfreeze the kingdom, if she died and he didn't marry Anna he would get nothing. So he needed her alive, if she could unfreeze the kingdom, he could find a way to be ruler by charging the queen with witchcraft and then getting the people on his side.
If not he would execute the queen and look like a big damn hero, and then rule a frozen kingdom. It just turns out that ANna was alive so he didn't need the queen anymore so she was going to be executed as Anna was left for dead, and he told them they got married in her last hour. No-one questions it and then he is king.
I am always wondering why people question his motives. He needs the queen to be alive long enough for the townsfolk to see her be executed for the greater good or else he gets nowhere."


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## INTP96

Elsa: INFJ
Anna: ESFJ
Olaf: ESFP
Kristoff: ISTP
Hans: INFP maybe? Not sure about him all that much

I think the king was an ESTJ/ISTJ


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## Laxgort

Elsa is an obvious INFJ. When my INFP friend saw the movie, she said: "Oh, Elsa is an INFP? I have a conection with her!" But no, Elsa isn't a INFP. Why INFPs usually have a conection? Because INFPs have Fi as a dom function, and if your values and thoughts aren't the same of the general opinion, you can feel "alone" or marginalized like Elsa, but she has Fe and INFPs no.

Anna... I think she's both ESFP and ENFP. Fictional characters have this peculiarity, and it's that they are fictional and not really humans, so their personality can be a mix.

Olaf: ESFP.

Kristoff: I think maybe ISFJ. He has a "good life" doing the same because is tradition(Si) and he isn't sad alone (I), at the same time he helps Anna (Fe) despite he can enter in a trouble. 

Hans: INTJ. He change his personality with a perfect plan, and I think INTJs are better than ENTJs in manipulate others or give a better first image of themselves. He had a plan what was perfected with Te, and accord with his values Fi. Maybe he can seems an ENTJ because when he was with Anna dancing he showed a lot of Se, but as I said before, this is a fictional character. 

Sorry if you don't understand something. Take the liberty of correct me, please.


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## Rhazelle

@Laxgort

Now that you mention it yeah Anna does seem like she's an ExFP - she exhibits qualities of both quite a bit

And I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks Hans is an INTJ ;]

and @INTP96 I'm sorry, but your whole post is immediately discredited after seeing you list Anna as an "SJ" type - it's known as the "Guardian Temperament"/Traditionalists (read up on it) - if you believe Anna to be anywhere close to this then I can't trust your judgement on MBTI typing >.>"" - and Hans is most definitely a "T" type, so listing him as an "F" type like you did... I think you need to read up a bit more on MBTI types before you start throwing out types for people hahah


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## INTP96

Rhazelle said:


> @Laxgort
> 
> Now that you mention it yeah Anna does seem like she's an ExFP - she exhibits qualities of both quite a bit
> 
> And I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks Hans is an INTJ ;]
> 
> and @INTP96 I'm sorry, but your whole post is immediately discredited after seeing you list Anna as an "SJ" type - it's known as the "Guardian Temperament"/Traditionalists (read up on it) - if you believe Anna to be anywhere close to this then I can't trust your judgement on MBTI typing >.>"" - and Hans is most definitely a "T" type, so listing him as an "F" type like you did... I think you need to read up a bit more on MBTI types before you start throwing out types for people hahah



I'm so glad you 'discredited' me by using a logical argument instead of just spewing out useless words fueled by reason. 

Good thing your type is known for being objective. 
I don't need to read up on that. I know what I typed her as, and I'm looking at her type, not the stereotype/typical label put on the ESFJ. Silly noob, learn to argue reasonably, read a book, and go back and finish school.


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## INTP96

I said I think Hans is an INFP, doesn't mean he can't be an INTJ. If anything, those are probably his top two potential types.


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## babblingbrook

Didn't like it, too American for me. The over the top poppy music, the cute polished manga hamster faces, the predictability of it all.

It didn't feel like a fairytale to me...

And I didn't like Elsa's character. 

I'm sorry.



Watch this instead:


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## INTP96

@babblingbrook

Gahhhh, you just stabbed my heart. Lol


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## babblingbrook

INTP96 said:


> @_babblingbrook_
> 
> Gahhhh, you just stabbed my heart. Lol


Wait, what, seriously? Sarcasm doesn't really work on the internet...


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## INTP96

babblingbrook said:


> Wait, what, seriously? Sarcasm doesn't really work on the internet...


Haha. No, I'm serious.  
See, I love Frozen. Bought the movie and the album, etc. xD
I just try to use my Fe more than usual, and my Si. So that I may 'evolve' as a person and become more well-rounded. ^.^

But yea, super serious, the dislike of frozen hurt my Fe. xD


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## babblingbrook

INTP96 said:


> Haha. No, I'm serious.
> See, I love Frozen. Bought the movie and the album, etc. xD
> I just try to use my Fe more than usual, and my Si. So that I may 'evolve' as a person and become more well-rounded. ^.^
> 
> But yea, super serious, the dislike of frozen hurt my Fe. xD


Oh my, I'm terribly sorry...

I think I am the wrong target group... I'm also 10 years older, and perhaps a bit more grumpy, so don't mind me and my opinions. 

If you and other people like the movie and enjoy it then that's perfectly fine.


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## INTP96

babblingbrook said:


> Oh my, I'm terribly sorry...
> 
> I think I am the wrong target group... I'm also 10 years older, and perhaps a bit more grumpy, so don't mind me and my opinions.
> 
> If you and other people like the movie and enjoy it then that's perfectly fine.


Lol. Yea, it's all good. I completely respect your opinions toward it. Not everyone is a belieber. (lol)
But yea. I like it a lot just cuz i was in Anna's position with my sibling, and cuz I love all types of 'mancy.
(Ex: Pyromancy, Hydromancy, Geomancy, etc)


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## Moonpie

I saw this chart with the disney princesses and their personality types. If you search anything along the lines of "16 personality types disney princesses," you'll find it easily on images. It shows Elsa as an INFJ (made my soul happy haha) and Anna as ESFJ.


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## Rhazelle

INTP96 said:


> I'm so glad you 'discredited' me by using a logical argument instead of just spewing out useless words fueled by reason.
> 
> Good thing your type is known for being objective.
> I don't need to read up on that. I know what I typed her as, and I'm looking at her type, not the stereotype/typical label put on the ESFJ. Silly noob, learn to argue reasonably, read a book, and go back and finish school.


So instead of actually putting down a good counter-argument where you explain how you came up with the types you did, you instead just call me a "silly noob", assume that I don't read books and haven't finished school as a means of justifying your righteousness.

I am so happy for you and your ability to back up and explain the lines of reasoning that lead you to your conclusions instead of trying to prove that you're right solely by personally attacking the person who disagreed with you and then suggesting that They "learn to argue reasonably".

No really, I totally learned a lot from your response and totally agree with you more now.

./sarcasm

Btw, all MBTI is is mostly a stereotype/label to put on people (hence why you can "type" someone using it, and you yourself have proven that you also think so by your line "Good thing your type is known for being objective. ") - people can be very different and varied within each type, but the system itself is basically stereotyping and labelling people under the 16 categories based on their functions of how they understand the world and make decisions. I disagreed with your statements because the types you chose straight up fundamentally oppose the characters in the movie and how they handled and reacted to certain situations. And in regards to my education on this topic, I doubt you have more knowledge of this system than I do - I don't even have to justify myself on this.

Until you come back at me with a logical argument that explains your line of reasoning that can be effectively pitted up against someone else's argument for why the character is of another type, any future response from you will be ignored and considered null and void by me because you can't argue your own point and thus there is no reason for this childish back-and-forth to continue.


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## INTP96

@Rhazelle 
Well, babe. That's pretty funny. Accuse me of giving no reason for my typing, yet you gave no reason for 'your' assumptions about me until AFTER. 

I didn't for four reason.
1. I'm on a mobile and don't have the patience to type decent responses while using it while at school.
2. I've already explained my reasoning in previous posts, so...
3. Victimizing yourself while being guilty of the same accusations you you made against is is pretty cute. 
4. Like you said, "there's no reason for the childish back-and-forth to continue." 

Also, notice how 'you' started the conflict between you and I.  
I recommend you rearranging your approach towards discrediting others by Reasoning first, then accuse, then bash. Or just reason. But I doubt your can keep it T, since you're such an F.  :*

Duh? 'Type' itself is categorizing something based on a shared quality, characteristic, etc. 
Type is the big label that makes you easier to identify/what you+your life have ='ed.

Jeez, not arrogant whatsoever.  that's what I like best about you. How humble you are about your intelligence and you're not attempting to be superior in any way, shape, or form.  you have such a great and lovely heart. I wouldn't be surprised if people genuinely loved you and fought to keep you in their lives as much as they could. <3 I know I would. ^.^

Oh no, too bad for me that I care SO MUCH about you and your opinions. ;( :/ I know my life will just turn inside out if I don't have your approval and love. I can't bear the thought of you considering my words null and void. >.< it just sort of reminds me of Ben 10, in the Null Void. </3


Anyways, love you honey bunny


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## 89338

My opinion by frozen... BEST DISNEY FILM EVER! Seriously, it was WAY better than all my expectations and it got be back into Disney after 8 years of lost interest. It won 2 Oscars for a reason. The music are also fantastic, got the album and listen to it almost daily.


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## INTP96

eltoroguaco said:


> My opinion by frozen... BEST DISNEY FILM EVER! Seriously, it was WAY better than all my expectations and it got be back into Disney after 8 years of lost interest. It won 2 Oscars for a reason. The music are also fantastic, got the album and listen to it almost daily.


Ikr. I never wanted to go see it and was hating on it when it was suggested to me. 
Then I saw it and omfg. I've seen it 5 times at theaters (first time I watched it was in February) then I bought the album, and movie.
In total now, I've seen it like 21 times since then, and I listen to my favorite 3 songs almost everyday. Do You Want To Build A Snowman, Let It Go, and For The First Time In Forever (Reprise). (It's really hard singing both parts of a duo xD)
I listen to it when I drive, when I shower, as my alarm clock, etc.
I watch it at least 1ce a week now


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## 89338

Ok you beat me. But I got it on blu-ray now and will see it again when it's time in my Disney Marathon. It's hard not to see it too quick 

I agree on your fave songs. But I like all xD


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## INTP96

Hahaha. Yea, my next song I listen to most would be Reindeer(s) Are Better Than People, and Love Is An Open Door.


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## 89338

Indeed. I wish I had someone to sing "Love is an open door" with. I know all of Hans' part by heart now. Need a girl to sing along with.


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## INTP96

Lol. Yea. I sing both duo's alone, but sometimes my sister is there and she sings the main part, (Elsa in Reprise, Anna in Love Is An Open Door) and I'll just sing the second part. Sounds pretty great. ^.^


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## 89338

Oh I guess so. But no one can sing like Idina Menzel. It's fun to try but you know you will never make it.

It's just like singing to Queen. You can always get close, but Mercury will always beat the confidence out of you.


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## INTP96

Lol. Yea. Omg, when I try to mimic her voice on the high notes, I just can't. 
I can't even match her normal voice xD

She sounds different than she does in real life, did they enhance her voice to make her sound younger? Or is that an additional effect of auto tune correcting?


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## 89338

Could be she change her voice on purpose. It's part of being a voice actor  If she does so, she VA right.


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## INTP96

Oh, I see.  regardless, I panicked the first time I heard her sing in the movie for Let It Go, I thought she was gonna explode or something. O.O


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## 89338

Yh it's an enormous performance. But even more so on First time in forever (reprise). The end there is just... wow.


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## INTP96

Yea. She's amazing. I swear I gasped aloud during my first viewing during that part. 
I try to shut off my INTPness so that I don't ruin the story for myself. Cuz mystery movies, I sometimes figure it out too soon. >.<


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## 89338

lol I just like to enjoy films as much as possible  And see every details without trying to figure out the end.


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## INTP96

I try to see whats happening, while I absorb the info and sort it in my head so I can call upon it if needed. But sometimes, my N is like, "Soo, he dies. Just thought you should know. "
:/


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## TheBlueRainWolf

REVIEW

I wasn't impressed with the movie.

1. It's best feature was the animation. As a lover of winterscapes I think the animators did a fantastic job with the artwork and portraying emotions on the characters (even though the female characters themselves looked pretty much the same but with different eye and hair color)

2. I like that they finally criticized the classic Disney plot of two people finding love at first sight, yet at the same time I don't think it was very effective. They don't actually point out that the very concept of instant love is flawed, but instead present it as "the person you think you loved at first sight might be evil." The main female character doesn't actually learn from her mistake, that in her desperation for attention she was opening herself up to those who would exploit her inexperience. She just moves to the next guy who appears to be equally broken up and they share some puppy love at the end of the film, without her or the audience really knowing anything about him other than that he cuts ice and was adopted by some magical love trolls who consider him an equally desperate "fixer-upper" (that song really bugged me).

3. The characters are all defined by their repression or naivety. What can you actually say about them other than that? What does it mean when they learn to be themselves when it is never really defined who they are?

4. I was trying to figure out what the point of the Olaf was. I first figured that he was just there for comic relief, but.. well it wasn't funny. His love of summer despite never experiencing heat could be taken as another commentary on Ana's irrational feelings, how she knows next to nothing about Hans, and how love out of inexperience can be dangerous. Again the discussion on this is completely absent - no one questions Olaf on this, and in the end he doesn't deal with it because he gets a magic snow cloud to float above him so that he never melts. He never has to deal with his problematic fixation again.

5. Everyone keeps saying that there is no villain in the movie outside of Hans, yet they completely skip over the PARENTS. Weren't the ethics of locking your child up in a tower already brought up in one of the Shrek movies or something? The troll that healed Ana the first time specifically said that fear would be Elsa's enemy. And what do they do? They completely cut her off from any outside contact and criticize her for not controlling herself better, teaching her that she is so dangerous that the only way she can avoid hurting others is through total isolation. There is no consideration for her needs at all, and there is no mention of them preparing her to take the throne. Even if they hadn't died unexpectedly, what exactly did they expect to happen when they got too old? They lie to Ana and tell Elsa to lie as well about the nature of her powers. They never warned Ana about irrational love/ infatuation. All the problems in the movie would never have happened if they had actually been caring parents and prepared their children better. All of the problems in the movie stem from bad childhoods. The "Let It Go" song is kind of ruined by the last line -- "The cold never bothered me anyway." She completely dismisses the pain she felt ever since she was a child, and she's back in the same isolated situation with a closed door. 

6. I don't see what the point of the movie is. Be yourself? Sisterly love over romantic love? But why? What exactly have either of them done to show love other than Ana's near-sacrifice? They haven't done anything. And Elsa nearly kills Ana at least three times (including where her ice monster knocks her and Kristoff off a cliff). All the conversations in the movie are either strained, awkward, or empty. And how did the villagers suddenly become accepting of her "witchcraft" at the end? That was the whole reason she was isolated in the first place! And after all this time they suddenly forgive her after she just accidentally unleashed an incredible dangerous winter on them?

7. Annoying male stereotypes and the fact they they are serve next to no purpose in advancing the story. Especially the Dutch (accent is somewhat German but since the film is based on Scandinavian cultures, I believe it's Dutch) store owner who was made to look like a complete imbecile for advertising his summer gear during a snowstorm.


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## Stokholm

The thread has already probably moved on to talking about Frozen more generally, but I'm going to post this here anyway. My take on the MBTI typing's of the characters;

Anna: I was originally thinking ESTP while watching it, but ESFP seems more consistent. She is more concerned with Elsa shutting out the world as she is one who constantly embraces it (Dominant Se). She wants to help as her sister is important to her (Auxillary Fi). She perceives things to be in more in her control than they are (Tertiary Te) and... I don't actually have anything about how she uses Ni negatively,:blushed: but it's absence seems adequate enough as well. 

Elsa: Elsa seems tricky as one might think she uses Si dominantly as she is scarred by her past and tries not to hurt anyone else and avoid the past from repeating itself. But I think she is more scarred by the future and the possibility of her hurting someone due to her understanding of how her powers are out of her control. So I think she uses Ni dominantly, which leads her to be an INFJ, with her Ni being supported by her Fe of keeping harmony and not letting others be harmed. Her fear of the future and is also linked to her inaction and shutting out the outside world, (Inferior Se).

Kristoph: Kristoph is actually a hard one. The best typing I've heard is an ISTJ. He is very concerned with his own procedure and how he sees the world rather than how it is ("An unforeseen circumstance has arisen, so I demand compensation, Mister Oaken.":shocked This seems Dominant Si. He's also driven by necessity and a sort of managing of his surroundings (agrees to guide Anna because she can stop the winter, meaning he can sell ice again. Continues to help Anna because he needs her to replace his sled.) Classic Te, which he uses as his Auxiliary. As the journey continues, he grows fond of Anna, Fi. He is unable to grasp how the "Unforeseen circumstances" changes the arbitrary concept of supply and demand, Inferior Ne.

Olaf: So warm and cuddly towards people and a need to help, Dominant Fe. But what is his second tool of thought, Ni or Si? I thought ESFJ, but he seems to find more satisfaction in a concept he hasn't seen, summer, which in his present circumstance (Se) is a future oriented concept that he draws from the contradictions that traditional winter has to summer (Ni). I'm going to say ENFJ, but I'm not really going to argue against ESFJ as it could also be attributed to... Tertiary Ne. Ugh, typing Olaf completely seems more trouble than it's worth. 

Sven: Hard to type since he doesn't actually talk, but let's try it. Loyal to Kristoph and very content. I would say ISFJ except for one thing, he directly pushes Kristoph back to Arendelle. ISFJ's don't really push back so much as steer forward. They don't usually put themselves in direct conflict with others. Seems introverted and content with being on the side lines. That's probably some indication of an introverted personality. I'm going to say INFP. That sounds right. He values Kristoph as a caretaker and a friend, (Fi Dominant) he lives in the present and calls bull on Kristoph letting Anna be with her "true love" where he gives a :dry: face. (Auxiliary Ne followed by Tertiary Si, as even Kristoph called bull on Anna earlier, which Sven remembers) and due to having no voice, which is provided by Kristoph, he has very little control unless he really feels it's necessary. (Inferior Te)

Hans: ENTJ. Little concern for others as he tries to promote himself from his present conditions into a state of more control (Seems Dominant Te aided by Ni to escape his Se).

Duke of Weselton: He's always given me an ENTP vibe. But what does he use most? I actually don't know. Is everyone fine with me just typing him an ENTP without any rational? :wink:... no?:sad: Fine. I actually don't know what his greatest strength is, so lets look at his weaknesses. He doesn't seem at all intact with what is going on around him (getting tricked by Hans about Anna's "death") and seems to jump to conclusions rather quickly. But he also has a hard time seeing alternate possibilities to a scenario. That actually seems to scream inferior or tertiary Ne, not Dominant. Looks like my vibe is off.:mellow: But his personality and body language seems much less composed and animated than what an ESTJ, ESFJ, ISTJ or ISFJ would be. Alright, lets try a different approach. What does he know? Trading, dancing and custom of dancing and being proper. But again, his personality and his way of interacting with the world seems more animated and forward than how an Si would approach it. That seems dominant Ne. It may be that he has a hard time seeing alternate possibilities is that he has a lack of information. He actually seems to see the secret's of Arendelle's royalty as a mystery to solve which he can use to further his profits. A very rational approach to using unknown information as a possibility for advancement using custom and chivalry (Inferior Si and Tertiary Fe) to aid his thirst for an understanding of the mystery (Auxiliary Ti and Dominant Ne). ENTP! Nailed it. Alright, moving on.

Marshmallow: Driven towards immediate action (some sort of Se) but seems more determined with his immediate goal which is to protect Elsa and isolate her, which he does in isolation. It's a job, he does his job. Sounds like a very rational approach. ISTP.

Oaken: Bubbly and happy with his store. Understands supply and demand (Ne), takes insults personally (Fi), I'm going to ENFP.

Pabbie: We get very little of him. He seems to give warnings about the future (Ni) due to patterns and knowledge of the nature of Elsa's powers. Does his best to guide them to reserve control (Te). I'm goin to say INTJ.

Bulda (Kristoph's Troll mom): Kinda an "in-your-face" mother. Gives an ENFJ vibe as she seems warm and friendly like Olaf (Fe). Understands the nature of relationships (seems Ni to me). 

The King: A caring father, but often doesn't see the harm he does based on his actions (Negative Fe). Seeks Elsa to be in control of her powers (Te). Seeks previous knowledge and tradition when dealing with Anna's injury, (Si). I'm going to say ESTJ.


----------



## 89338

I totally agree on those! I too think Olaf is an ENFJ. He's too much like me to not.


----------



## HippoHunter94

I want this movie to die already. I'm so sick of it. To be fair, it's not terrible, but it has to be the most overrated shit ever taken. Just... not particularly inventive or interesting. It's funny, and it is otherwise pretty likable. It is not, however, some tremendous masterpiece.


----------



## 89338

^


----------



## INTP96

HippoHunter94 said:


> I want this movie to die already. I'm so sick of it. To be fair, it's not terrible, but it has to be the most overrated shit ever taken. Just... not particularly inventive or interesting. It's funny, and it is otherwise pretty likable. It is not, however, some tremendous masterpiece.


Your blasphemy goes against the Church of Frozen, you must die.


----------



## Mutant Hive Queen

HippoHunter94 said:


> I want this movie to die already. I'm so sick of it. To be fair, it's not terrible, but it has to be the most overrated shit ever taken. Just... not particularly inventive or interesting. It's funny, and it is otherwise pretty likable. It is not, however, some tremendous masterpiece.



You can define what the overrated shit _is_, yes? 

I mean, the one or two things I _can_ think of that are frequently used were used in such a _way_ that it was still distinct from the other films and suchlike that use those tropes.


----------



## HippoHunter94

Chained Divinity said:


> You can define what the overrated shit _is_, yes?
> 
> I mean, the one or two things I _can_ think of that are frequently used were used in such a _way_ that it was still distinct from the other films and suchlike that use those tropes.


Oh gosh.... Let's see, the postmodernism was stupid. So predictable, and not particularly well observed. "You can't marry someone you just met." That's been a criticism of Disney films for years. Just because they're the first film to point it out doesn't make it smart. All it means is that Disney is being lazy. Most uses of meta-humor were just like "Look at us. We're hip and using smart humor." Not really. 

Oh man!!! The anthropomorphized/nonhuman comic relief. Done the hell to DEATH. Olaf is the same as Genie, or Skuttle, or the mice from Cinderella. 

And "Let It Go?" That has to be one of the blandest, laziest, least interesting songs for a musical film that has ever been produced. The music is uninspired, the lyrics are vague and full of well-worn clichés, and it totally misses the point of what Elsa should represent to the audience. This is a song that tells us we should be on her side, even though we JUST SAW HER descend a perpetual winter upon her own fucking kingdom. Also, she must have been traveling at least as much as Anna. So, the fact that she later claims to not see that shit is utter stupidity on filmmakers' part. Not only that, she lives so far above everyone, she would notice when shit isn't green and arboreal. All that song is about her parents were shitty, now everyone has to pay for her resentment, and we have to be on board with that? How about not? 

Look, I could go on and on, like how that Hans reveal could be seen from ten billion miles away, or how the film is not willing to abandon romance for anything, or how the solution to fixing Anna is the biggest piece of shit deus ex machina this side of The Odyssey. It's just not a great film.


----------



## Mutant Hive Queen

HippoHunter94 said:


> Oh gosh.... Let's see, the postmodernism was stupid. So predictable, and not particularly well observed. "You can't marry someone you just met." That's been a criticism of Disney films for years. Just because they're the first film to point it out doesn't make it smart.


That's really never been a criticism of Disney films in the circles I've frequented. What I've really only seen is accusations of sexism and a dislike of the "helpless princess" archetype. _Frozen_ definitely violates that archetype, but it doesn't do the usual (_incredibly stupid_) thing of immediately going in the opposite direction like they at least were appearing to do with Brave. Both princesses actually have a good many interesting facets to them, and I don't feel like they're pushing "strong independent" angle too hard. 



> All it means is that Disney is being lazy. Most uses of meta-humor were just like "Look at us. We're hip and using smart humor." Not really.


I've got literally no recollection of meta-humor in that film. Most of the humor was more just sort of mocking Anna, but in a way that was, I think, _quite_ smart. And frankly, you give off the vibe of someone who would call almost all humor stupid. 



> Oh man!!! The anthropomorphized/nonhuman comic relief. Done the hell to DEATH. Olaf is the same as Genie, or Skuttle, or the mice from Cinderella.


Olaf is _definitely_ not the Genie in archetype (he's not a power source), and I don't remember the other two. 

Moreover, Olaf isn't comic relief. Anna generates almost all of the comedy. What _Olaf_ is, is basically a way to highlight things about Elsa, and a way to get Anna out of that locked room. 



> And "Let It Go?" That has to be one of the blandest, laziest, least interesting songs for a musical film that has ever been produced. The music is uninspired, the lyrics are vague and full of well-worn clichés, and it totally misses the point of what Elsa should represent to the audience. This is a song that tells us we should be on her side, even though we JUST SAW HER descend a perpetual winter upon her own fucking kingdom. Also, she must have been traveling at least as much as Anna. So, the fact that she later claims to not see that shit is utter stupidity on filmmakers' part. Not only that, she lives so far above everyone, she would notice when shit isn't green and arboreal. All that song is about her parents were shitty, now everyone has to pay for her resentment, and we have to be on board with that? How about not?


Yeah, and Anna didn't learn about the Kingdom being frozen because she _traveled_. She learned about it being frozen because she was there when Elsa _left it_. And I'm willing to gamble that Elsa's fleeing whatever-the-kingdom's-name-was, was a situation in which she wasn't even paying attention to her surroundings at all. She just bolted, maybe manipulated the ice around her so that she could move faster. 





> Look, I could go on and on, like how that Hans reveal could be seen from ten billion miles away,


I didn't see it. I just figured the kiss wouldn't work. So maybe that's just you. 



> how the film is not willing to abandon romance for anything, or how the solution to fixing Anna is the biggest piece of shit deus ex machina this side of The Odyssey. It's just not a great film.


It's funny how you say both these points in the same sentence, really. I mean, the entire _point_ of the solution was to move away from the emphasis on romance. And, by the way? It wasn't a Deus ex Machina at all. The solution to her slowly freezing to death was an act of true love, and she acted, out of love. Somehow, following the exact definition of the action fixed her.


----------



## HippoHunter94

Chained Divinity said:


> That's really never been a criticism of Disney films in the circles I've frequented. What I've really only seen is accusations of sexism and a dislike of the "helpless princess" archetype. _Frozen_ definitely violates that archetype, but it doesn't do the usual (_incredibly stupid_) thing of immediately going in the opposite direction like they at least were appearing to do with Brave. Both princesses actually have a good many interesting facets to them, and I don't feel like they're pushing "strong independent" angle too hard.


Well, why not push that angle? Why not make a real statement about sisterhood that is devoted almost exclusively to this? Why not give both Anna and Elsa some true, introspective moments?



> I've got literally no recollection of meta-humor in that film. Most of the humor was more just sort of mocking Anna, but in a way that was, I think, _quite_ smart. And frankly, you give off the vibe of someone who would call almost all humor stupid.


No, I love jokes. I think that Frozen tries too hard, and fails. They're attempts at cleverness that are well-worn, and don't sustain themselves for long. Frozen's humor is so contemporary that I'm positive it will age poorly because of it, but that's neither here nor there.



> Olaf is _definitely_ not the Genie in archetype (he's not a power source), and I don't remember the other two.


I'm saying that Genie and Olaf are similar, insofar as they're supernatural beings who are used almost exclusively for jokes, and occasionally for heart. Also, I have to take issue with Olaf being mean-spirited and snarky at certain times, then unfailingly cheery and moronic in others, basically shifting between whenever a joke called for it. 

Moreover, Olaf isn't comic relief. Anna generates almost all of the comedy. What _Olaf_ is, is basically a way to highlight things about Elsa, and a way to get Anna out of that locked room. 




> Yeah, and Anna didn't learn about the Kingdom being frozen because she _traveled_. She learned about it being frozen because she was there when Elsa _left it_. And I'm willing to gamble that Elsa's fleeing whatever-the-kingdom's-name-was, was a situation in which she wasn't even paying attention to her surroundings at all. She just bolted, maybe manipulated the ice around her so that she could move faster.


Yeah, but Anna could probably see her kingdom as she headed back. After all, she was trekking up a pretty huge mountain. And again, even if Elsa set up camp not long after she left her people to die because of something that was her fault, all she has to do is take a look out her other window. She builds a castle, presumably to explore, and for the space. Otherwise, why would she build such a grand structure? It's obvious she resents being cooped up in her room. So, why not take advantage of that early on? Is she so willing to forget about the place that she agreed to reign over and protect? 




> I didn't see it. I just figured the kiss wouldn't work. So maybe that's just you.


I mean, it's pretty standard Disney logic. Most Disney couples can't end up together if they're too similar. Hans and Anna? TOO SIMILAR. They have a whole song, complete with an Arrested Development reference and everything. But look at lots of couples: Eric and Ariel are different species. Belle and Beast come from different formative experiences. Cinderella and the Prince are different, socio-economically, so are Jasmine and Aladdin, and so are Flynn and Rapunzel. Some differences are significant, others aren't. This doesn't apply to everyone, but it's consistent enough when Hans can't be Anna's man. OH!!! And then when Kristoff tags along, you know that – since they're taking a journey together – they're the ones who will be developing a relationship. And since Disney would almost certainly never make difficult decisions for their audience, the obvious conclusion must be that Hans is a two-faced sack of shit. 



> It's funny how you say both these points in the same sentence, really. I mean, the entire _point_ of the solution was to move away from the emphasis on romance. And, by the way? It wasn't a Deus ex Machina at all. The solution to her slowly freezing to death was an act of true love, and she acted, out of love. Somehow, following the exact definition of the action fixed her.


The two aren't mutually exclusive, nor inherently contradictory. But romance is still part of the solution. Romance still matters at the end of the film. You see Anna and Kristoff pretty intertwined. And it is a deus ex machina if Elsa's never around to learn that lesson, which she isn't, and then suddenly pull it out of her ass. Also, "true love?" Really? That's the solution? For a film that is so obsessed with being different, and with exploring relationships from a new angle, that has to be the absolute worst fix. It's not that it shouldn't work, but they don't have anything to say about love. There's nothing there. It's just "love." Elsa doesn't have to learn to be more open to others. She doesn't have to atone for ruining her kingdom, or even acknowledge that she probably killed a few people from her winter. Similarly, Anna doesn't ever have to understand Anna, or really learn anything about her. We're just supposed to accept that she's devout to this person, even though they have virtually no connection. More than anything, the ending is so forced and trite that it comes off as spectacularly lazy.


----------



## Fleetfoot

I have trouble understanding why people didn't like the movie other than there's too much hype. It possibly beats out the Lion King...no. I'm not sure yet. It's damn close though.

The animation is breathtaking, and Disney did attempt to take the fairy tale story they're so well known for and change it up successfully. To be honest, I was excited about the movie before I saw it, but I saw previews, and saw Olaf, and thought "Oh my god that stupid snowman is going to RUIN the movie!" I was so wrong! I don't think the movie would be as good without his character and the role he plays in bringing Anna and Elsa together.


----------



## Mutant Hive Queen

HippoHunter94 said:


> Well, why not push that angle? Why not make a real statement about sisterhood that is devoted almost exclusively to this? Why not give both Anna and Elsa some true, introspective moments?


What they have now _isn't_ a story of sisterhood? I mean, the entire point of the scenes of "Do you Wanna Build a Snowman" is to focus on the bond Anna and Elsa have _as sisters_. It is not a prince, but _Elsa's sister_ that takes on the role of rescuer. It is the bond Anna and Elsa have _as sisters_ that saves them both. 

It's really, really focused-on as is. And the romantic subplots don't really diminish it, as they show which of the two bonds will in fact be there when you need it. 







> No, I love jokes. I think that Frozen tries too hard, and fails. They're attempts at cleverness that are well-worn, and don't sustain themselves for long. Frozen's humor is so contemporary that I'm positive it will age poorly because of it, but that's neither here nor there.


Okay, I'm really confused about your use of the word "contemporary". To me, that implies references to contemporary things, use of contemporary dialects, and (based on the style of late) a really over-the-top quality, neither of which _Frozen_ relies on much. Hell, the "Finishing each other's sentences" thing is an _incredibly old_ line. 





> I'm saying that Genie and Olaf are similar, insofar as they're supernatural beings who are used almost exclusively for jokes, and occasionally for heart. Also, I have to take issue with Olaf being mean-spirited and snarky at certain times, then unfailingly cheery and moronic in others, basically shifting between whenever a joke called for it.


When was Olaf ever mean-spirited, precisely? I can't even think of a single such scene. As for the similarity, meh. He's not a major enough character for it to be irksome, and besides he and the Genie have _very_ different styles (Genie's a ham, Olaf's just cuddly).







> Yeah, but Anna could probably see her kingdom as she headed back. After all, she was trekking up a pretty huge mountain. And again, even if Elsa set up camp not long after she left her people to die because of something that was her fault, all she has to do is take a look out her other window. She builds a castle, presumably to explore, and for the space. Otherwise, why would she build such a grand structure? It's obvious she resents being cooped up in her room. So, why not take advantage of that early on? Is she so willing to forget about the place that she agreed to reign over and protect?


This is all conjecture, however. We don't know how far the mountain is from Erendell (finally remembered the name XD), and we don't know if there are any issues with fog or other weather that obscures vision after a point (it's pretty damn snowy). And Elsa could've just explored deeper into the mountains, building up her "kingdom". 






> I mean, it's pretty standard Disney logic. Most Disney couples can't end up together if they're too similar. Hans and Anna? TOO SIMILAR. They have a whole song, complete with an Arrested Development reference and everything.


You mean the joke in the song? Not an arrested development reference. Just a joke about how superficial the relationship really is. 



> But look at lots of couples: Eric and Ariel are different species. Belle and Beast come from different formative experiences. Cinderella and the Prince are different, socio-economically, so are Jasmine and Aladdin, and so are Flynn and Rapunzel. Some differences are significant, others aren't. This doesn't apply to everyone, but it's consistent enough when Hans can't be Anna's man. OH!!! And then when Kristoff tags along, you know that – since they're taking a journey together – they're the ones who will be developing a relationship.


Tropes Are Not Bad. Just because it shares an element with other movies doesn't mean it lacks its other, original elements or is bad. 




> And since Disney would almost certainly never make difficult decisions for their audience, the obvious conclusion must be that Hans is a two-faced sack of shit.


Incorporating "difficult decisions" just to meet some quota of ambiguity really isn't good storytelling in and of itself. In this case, the revelation that Anna couldn't rely upon her (ultimately superficial) "love" was aesthetically better for the story. 





> The two aren't mutually exclusive, nor inherently contradictory. But romance is still part of the solution.


No, it's _actively not_. Kristoff is _unable to help, and instead Anna is saved by her selfless act towards Elsa_. 

I'm wondering if you even watched it now. 



> Romance still matters at the end of the film. You see Anna and Kristoff pretty intertwined.


Not when Anna's about to die. 



> And it is a deus ex machina if Elsa's never around to learn that lesson, which she isn't, and then suddenly pull it out of her ass.


What the hell? She's _right there_. Explain what you mean better, please. 



> Also, "true love?" Really? That's the solution? For a film that is so obsessed with being different, and with exploring relationships from a new angle, that has to be the absolute worst fix. It's not that it shouldn't work, but they don't have anything to say about love. There's nothing there. It's just "love."


Ah, no. You are completely wrong. "True love" typically means something romantic or sensual in the audience's mind, and the film's application of it _is filial_. It's completely stepping on the usual idea of true love tropes. 



> Elsa doesn't have to learn to be more open to others.


Yes she does. She does when she learns that Anna will be there for her even in death, even when she caused that death. That she doesn't have to be alone. 



> She doesn't have to atone for ruining her kingdom,


Because that's like asking someone to atone for breathing, given how it happened. 



> Similarly, Anna doesn't ever have to understand Anna, or really learn anything about her. We're just supposed to accept that she's devout to this person, even though they have virtually no connection.


Yet again, no, I'm really beginning to think you didn't watch the film. She learns very clearly that love isn't just something you experience right when you see someone, and her conception of it was horribly naive.


----------



## HippoHunter94

Chained Divinity said:


> What they have now _isn't_ a story of sisterhood? I mean, the entire point of the scenes of "Do you Wanna Build a Snowman" is to focus on the bond Anna and Elsa have _as sisters_. It is not a prince, but _Elsa's sister_ that takes on the role of rescuer. It is the bond Anna and Elsa have _as sisters_ that saves them both.
> 
> It's really, really focused-on as is. And the romantic subplots don't really diminish it, as they show which of the two bonds will in fact be there when you need it.


No it is not. It's about sisters, but not why the idea of sisterhood is inherently more powerful. And Anna is only able to rescue Elsa BECAUSE of a male. And what bond? That's contradictory. These people don't know each other. They have no real reason to be connected to each other, with the exception that they have the same parents. 

The only time sisterhood is really addressed is when they're on screen with each other, which isn't very much. So, no. It isn't "really, really focused on as is." The romantic subplots do take away from that. They fill in the gaps that the filmmakers couldn't spend on saying anything about these two main characters.



> Okay, I'm really confused about your use of the word "contemporary". To me, that implies references to contemporary things, use of contemporary dialects, and (based on the style of late) a really over-the-top quality, neither of which _Frozen_ relies on much. Hell, the "Finishing each other's sentences" thing is an _incredibly old_ line.


"Contemporary" refers to the humor itself, not the subject material. The joke construction is very modern, but so done to death. And it's "finishing each other's SANDWICHES." That's the Arrested Development reference. 



> When was Olaf ever mean-spirited, precisely? I can't even think of a single such scene. As for the similarity, meh. He's not a major enough character for it to be irksome, and besides he and the Genie have _very_ different styles (Genie's a ham, Olaf's just cuddly).


When is he mean-spirited? He treats Kristoff like shit the entire time for NO reason. 



> This is all conjecture, however. We don't know how far the mountain is from Erendell (finally remembered the name XD), and we don't know if there are any issues with fog or other weather that obscures vision after a point (it's pretty damn snowy). And Elsa could've just explored deeper into the mountains, building up her "kingdom".


That's just as much conjecture. And she wouldn't have to have gone that far to see what she had done. And she still abandons her kingdom, regardless. That alone is reprehensible, ice-pocalypse notwithstanding. 



> You mean the joke in the song? Not an arrested development reference. Just a joke about how superficial the relationship really is.


No. What are you talking about?



> Tropes Are Not Bad. Just because it shares an element with other movies doesn't mean it lacks its other, original elements or is bad.


Didn't say they were bad. Just said that it made a huge plot point extremely obvious.



> Incorporating "difficult decisions" just to meet some quota of ambiguity really isn't good storytelling in and of itself. In this case, the revelation that Anna couldn't rely upon her (ultimately superficial) "love" was aesthetically better for the story.


Hold on, it wouldn't have to have been for the sake of ambiguity. But it certainly would have been better storytelling than "TWIST!!! THE GUY WITH MOTIVE TO BE EVIL IS EVIL!!!" I mean, really. Why mention he's the youngest of TWELVE brothers if that's not important? It is important, by the way. And it isn't that she can't rely on Hans. It's that HE'S A FUCKING MURDERER, which if a HUGE difference. Anna never learns that her relationship with Hans is bad by virtue of its immaturity; she learns it's bad because he leaves her to die, and would murder anyone he had to in order to get what he wants. And it's not like Anna would have known this if she had just spent time with Hans. NO ONE knew he was evil. He's not acting terribly. He's good at putting on a show. So good that Hans only stops acting when he's sure no one will know. 

And what does that even mean? The aesthetic would be better for it? The film's aesthetic can be whatever the filmmaker's want it to be. So, they can manipulate any ending to get what they want. 



> No, it's _actively not_. Kristoff is _unable to help, and instead Anna is saved by her selfless act towards Elsa_.
> 
> I'm wondering if you even watched it now.


If he's unable to help, then why put him in that situation? If the film centers around Anna and Elsa, why put his character and his relationship with Anna so far into the climax of the film? He's meant to be there, and he's meant to take part in this situation. But if he doesn't help, then what purpose does he serve? 



> Not when Anna's about to die.


But right when they're hugging on the ship, you know what Anna does? Look back at Kristoff, and then the scene fades to the denouement. That's how the film's arc ends: By reminding the audience that Anna and Kristoff are a thing. Twenty seconds later, they kiss. There's more of a development in their relationship than in Anna and Elsa's. All they do is ice skate, and that's it. 



> What the hell? She's _right there_. Explain what you mean better, please.


Elsa's just standing around in the ice, and everyone was like "Love, love, love." And then Elsa's like "Oh, that'll fix everything." And then makes it Spring again. That doesn't make sense. If it was that easy to control, why couldn't she have learned that earlier? Her parents were the king and queen, and they knew magical beings that existed. Also, what love does Elsa understand? Even if her sister did something incredibly selfless, that doesn't mean that she's also going to understand this powerful sensation. She might feel gratitude, but that's not necessarily indicative of love. 



> Ah, no. You are completely wrong. "True love" typically means something romantic or sensual in the audience's mind, and the film's application of it _is filial_. It's completely stepping on the usual idea of true love tropes.


Just because it's expressed differently doesn't make the idea any less worn. Not only that, but sisterly love is never really defined in the film. So, when the solution is supposed to this concept that's not even earned, it comes off as forced and inauthentic. And if you want good examples of filial love, then watch Tarzan. Watch Pinocchio (sort of.) Watch (to leave Disney for a moment) Finding Nemo, or My Neighbor Totoro (which examines sisterhood a million times better than Frozen,) or even The Secret of Kells. Watch Mulan even. 



> Yes she does. She does when she learns that Anna will be there for her even in death, even when she caused that death. That she doesn't have to be alone.


But Anna is only there in death because she literally can't go anywhere else. And again, it's not earned. We have no reason to care for these characters' relationship with each other, except with the presupposition that they're sisters, and that this bond is supposed to matter. And she only learns to be open to one person, and that was after all kinds of terrible things happened. It took a massive snowstorm, THAT SHE WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR, for Elsa to admit she was kinda, sorta wrong.



> Because that's like asking someone to atone for breathing, given how it happened.


That's bullshit. Absolute nonsense. Yes she does have to atone. Just because she didn't mean to make it happen, that doesn't excuse how she handled it, which was so poor. Elsa deserves to be punished. Elsa also sees the harbors freezing over. She knows that there are boats there, and that they'll be stuck if she runs. Time is devoted to watching her make that decision. Elsa knows her decisions have immediate consequences that are on a huge scale, and she picks her own emancipation over trying to even find a better solution. 



> Yet again, no, I'm really beginning to think you didn't watch the film. She learns very clearly that love isn't just something you experience right when you see someone, and her conception of it was horribly naive.


She does not explicitly learn this. The film ends the next day. Her and Kristoff have known each other for a few days, maybe. And they're already a huge romantic item. They're making out by the end of the movie. In all actuality, she doesn't spend that much more time with Kristoff compared to Hans. The only thing we can assume is that Kristoff isn't a complete sociopath.


----------



## Mutant Hive Queen

HippoHunter94 said:


> No it is not. It's about sisters, but not why the idea of sisterhood is inherently more powerful.


Except, in the film, the bonds of sisterhood accomplish more. They appear more powerful. 



> And Anna is only able to rescue Elsa BECAUSE of a male.


"Luke Skywalker was only able to defeat the emperor BECAUSE of Obi-Wan and the Rebels". 

You see the double standard here? 



> what bond? That's contradictory. These people don't know each other. They have no real reason to be connected to each other, with the exception that they have the same parents.


For one thing, there's all the time they had _before_ Elsa almost killed Anna. Not to mention, Elsa isolated herself from Anna for Anna's sake, too, and even keeping in mind the lack of contact Anna and Elsa had considerably more of such with each other than anyone else. 



> The only time sisterhood is really addressed is when they're on screen with each other, which isn't very much. So, no. It isn't "really, really focused on as is." The romantic subplots do take away from that. They fill in the gaps that the filmmakers couldn't spend on saying anything about these two main characters.


Apparently, you have a very narrow definition of "focus". 

The entire thing that drives the romantic subplot with Kristoff _is_ Elsa. Not Kristoff, not Anna, but Elsa. Anna needs someone to help her reach her sister, _therefore_ she finds Kristoff. It's not a separate thing. 

Meanwhile, Hans has about as many scenes with Anna as Elsa does, so you can't say much about that. 





> "Contemporary" refers to the humor itself, not the subject material. The joke construction is very modern, but so done to death. And it's "finishing each other's SANDWICHES." That's the Arrested Development reference.


I didn't get the reference, and it was still funny. So you're wrong about it not translating well. As for the nature of the joke construction, sure, it's modern. That means it's tailor made for _my_ demographic, which I am going to say I appreciate. 





> When is he mean-spirited? He treats Kristoff like shit the entire time for NO reason.


...still not remembering it. I vaguely recall him being sort of suspicious of Kristoff at first, which makes some sense as he's a product of Elsa's memories and therefore going to be kinder to Anna? Or were you talking about getting Kristoff's name wrong, which Olaf wasn't even aware of?





> That's just as much conjecture.


No, it's not. Because _your_ idea of what might've happened _doesn't_ line up with the events of the film, and mine does. My conclusion matches the results, and yours doesn't. 

Mind you, it's still conjecture, but I only needed to prove it was _possible_ that she didn't know, anyway. 



> And she wouldn't have to have gone that far to see what she had done.


Up in the _frozen_ mountains. Not necessarily. 



> And she still abandons her kingdom, regardless. That alone is reprehensible, ice-pocalypse notwithstanding.


She abandoned her kingdom, fearing she would be killed by said kingdom or freeze everything in it. You could almost call it noble. 





> No. What are you talking about?


The sandwich thing. I found it hilarious without connecting it to Arrested Development though, so there goes your "it doesn't translate well" out the window. 





> Didn't say they were bad. Just said that it made a huge plot point extremely obvious.


...as part of your explanation of why it was bad. So yes you did. 





> Hold on, it wouldn't have to have been for the sake of ambiguity. But it certainly would have been better storytelling than "TWIST!!! THE GUY WITH MOTIVE TO BE EVIL IS EVIL!!!"


...because it would add more moral ambiguity. My point still stands. 



> I mean, really. Why mention he's the youngest of TWELVE brothers if that's not important? It is important, by the way.


Because it creates an illusion of compatibility between them to be broken later? 



> And it isn't that she can't rely on Hans. It's that HE'S A FUCKING MURDERER, which if a HUGE difference. Anna never learns that her relationship with Hans is bad by virtue of its immaturity; she learns it's bad because he leaves her to die, and would murder anyone he had to in order to get what he wants.


...so, I'll ask you then--_what was the point of repeatedly mentioning you can't marry someone you just met_? 



> And it's not like Anna would have known this if she had just spent time with Hans. NO ONE knew he was evil. He's not acting terribly. He's good at putting on a show. So good that Hans only stops acting when he's sure no one will know.


Catching him when he thinks he's alone, for one thing, might've allowed her to learn. But regardless, even if Hans's specific flaws are a bit more deliberate and serious than most flawed couples', what she learned from it _was_ in fact that you would need to actually get to know someone before falling in "love" with them. Because if she had really _known_ him, things would've gone differently. 



> And what does that even mean? The aesthetic would be better for it? The film's aesthetic can be whatever the filmmaker's want it to be. So, they can manipulate any ending to get what they want.


Yes, precisely. And the fact is that the way the manipulated it drove the point I described home. So it worked. 





> If he's unable to help, then why put him in that situation? If the film centers around Anna and Elsa, why put his character and his relationship with Anna so far into the climax of the film? He's meant to be there, and he's meant to take part in this situation. But if he doesn't help, then what purpose does he serve?


To show that he can't help. Also as a bit of a foil to Hans, in that he's a better pick for romance then Hans was. (I'll get into the reasons in a sec)

But seriously, that realization wasn't difficult. 





> But right when they're hugging on the ship, you know what Anna does? Look back at Kristoff, and then the scene fades to the denouement. That's how the film's arc ends: By reminding the audience that Anna and Kristoff are a thing. Twenty seconds later, they kiss. There's more of a development in their relationship than in Anna and Elsa's. All they do is ice skate, and that's it.


The Lord of the Rings, when it ended (in the books at least) featured the marriage of Aragorn and Arwen, a whole resistance movement against Saruman in the Shire, and Samwise having kids. Does that make the story any less about the Ring and Sauron? 

Again, you are pulling a bullshit double standard. 



> Elsa's just standing around in the ice, and everyone was like "Love, love, love." And then Elsa's like "Oh, that'll fix everything." And then makes it Spring again. That doesn't make sense. If it was that easy to control, why couldn't she have learned that earlier? Her parents were the king and queen, and they knew magical beings that existed.


There's a bit less tangibility to the idea that people will be there for you even when you screw up when all your parents do is emphasize you _can't_ screw up, and sealing you away from everyone, than when someone dies, partly because of you, trying to protect you from taking the punishment for their presumed death. 



> Also, what love does Elsa understand? Even if her sister did something incredibly selfless, that doesn't mean that she's also going to understand this powerful sensation. She might feel gratitude, but that's not necessarily indicative of love.


It was in the moments before Anna's freezing, when she thought she killed Anna. She was going to let Hans kill her out of guilt! 





> Just because it's expressed differently doesn't make the idea any less worn.


When there's been pretty much only one prominent expression ever? Yes it seriously does. 



> Not only that, but sisterly love is never really defined in the film.


The sisterly aspect, _maybe_, but the love aspect? Olaf clearly spells it out. Being willing to sacrifice for someone. 



> So, when the solution is supposed to this concept that's not even earned, it comes off as forced and inauthentic.


1. It kind of is earned, see my above points for that. 
2. Frankly, I find the idea of needing to "earn" love to be highly unoriginal and annoying. 






> But Anna is only there in death because she literally can't go anywhere else.


Bullshit. Anna is there because she leapt there to rescue Elsa. And had been wanting to help Elsa (and working towards that end) since nearly the beginning of the movie. 



> And again, it's not earned. We have no reason to care for these characters' relationship with each other, except with the presupposition that they're sisters,


Elsa was willing to die for Anna, as I already explained. It was because of Anna that she isolated herself. She _showed_ that devotion several times. And Anna...well her devotion to Elsa drives the entire damn movie. 



> And she only learns to be open to one person, and that was after all kinds of terrible things happened. It took a massive snowstorm, THAT SHE WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR, for Elsa to admit she was kinda, sorta wrong.


I'm sorry, but what deep, abiding conviction did Elsa have to be wrong about? Other than "I'm wrong and bad because of my power"? 





> That's bullshit. Absolute nonsense. Yes she does have to atone. Just because she didn't mean to make it happen, that doesn't excuse how she handled it, which was so poor. Elsa deserves to be punished. Elsa also sees the harbors freezing over. She knows that there are boats there, and that they'll be stuck if she runs. Time is devoted to watching her make that decision. Elsa knows her decisions have immediate consequences that are on a huge scale, and she picks her own emancipation over trying to even find a better solution.


Alternatively! 

Time is devoted to seeing her run off because she figures the harbor's won't remain frozen if she leaves the area. But...





> She does not explicitly learn this. The film ends the next day. Her and Kristoff have known each other for a few days, maybe. And they're already a huge romantic item. They're making out by the end of the movie. In all actuality, she doesn't spend that much more time with Kristoff compared to Hans. The only thing we can assume is that Kristoff isn't a complete sociopath.


1. You have no idea how long the search for Elsa was--could've been months, on the high end--so that's considerably more than she spent with Hans. 
2. Kristoff, as you say, "earns" it far more than Hans does. What with the taking risks to save her life thing.


----------



## INTP96

I have to say, there's a lot of haters that are just hating for the purpose of hating. 
Some people are being bitter  

Honestly, Olaf is the best comic relief I've ever see . Genie is good but he's too crazy. Scuttle is kind of an annoying douche. 

Seriously though, if you don't like the movie and don't believe in it being as great as everyone else does, then just don't read about it.  hating on it on a thread about it in public is really just pathetic. Go vent to someone who cares, (which is probably no one cuz you're either Frozen, or you're Dead.  )


----------



## RiseAgainst55

I've only watched the first 45 minutes of the movie in my Latin class, but I read the synopsis for the rest of the movie online, so here's what I'm thinking.
Elsa-INFJ
Anna-A lot of people have been saying ENFP, but I'm leaning towards ESFP. She just doesn't seem intuitive at all.
Kristoff-ISFJ or ISTJ
Hans-INTJ or ENTJ


----------



## Tridentus

Anna is an ESFP- she's action oriented and present focused, and also very in tune with her physical environment. ENFPs are very possibilities oriented. Anna doesn't display any kind of "alternative thinking" or symbolic perspective in her thinking, she's just very in the moment and on the go.


----------



## 68097

On the surface, Elsa looks like an INFJ because of that whole "repress your emotions!" thing, but she's not. Compare her behavior to that of Disney's new take on Maleficent and you'll see why. Elsa has no Fe, unlike Maleficent. Fe gets in the way of all Maleficent's decisions, causing her to compromise, people-please, and... well, I don't want to spoil it. But Elsa's level of door-slamming coldness? Not possible with Fe. Maleficent experiences trauma that surpasses Elsa's, and unlike Elsa, does not get stuck in a self-destructive Si-rut of obsessing about it. She, instead, plans for the future. 

Nowhere in the film does Elsa make long-term plans. Nowhere does she display any kind of Ni-intuitiveness. She can't see through Hans. She doesn't come up with creative ways to protect and confide in her sister. Time doesn't kind of flow all together for her -- it stopped the moment she hurt her sister. She can't get past that. She struggles to overcome it. It overshadows everything in her life. Dominant or aux Si, probably dominant.


----------



## Parrot

angelcat said:


> On the surface, Elsa looks like an INFJ because of that whole "repress your emotions!" thing, but she's not... But Elsa's level of door-slamming coldness? Not possible with Fe.


I think that's fair, but Elsa is a caricature of depression. As an INFJ, she could be in an Ni-Ti loop of "what's the point of interacting with others."

Her sister Anna, seems like an ESFJ to me with an extra emphasis on her extroverted functions. She always wants to play and experience the world with her friends, which happen to be no one. Because of that, her Si is likely to be bizarrely developed which would cause her to rely on Ne, her tertiary, in order to find some perception in the world.

That is why Hans strikes me as an ENTP who has mastered Fe as a display. I don't think an ENTJ would be that sentimental towards others feelings. ENTJ sociopaths are captivating in ways that cause others to gather to their power. They show fake Fi compassion while the ExTP sociopath shows fake Fe empathy. I personally relate to the latter example (read between the lines of what I'm insinuating about myself). Of course that personal perception does cause me to project myself into Hans, an ENTP can also seek power as a form of novelty. Also, assuming Anna is an ESFJ, Then the ENTP can more easily win over her over as both are a part of alpha quadra.

The thing that bothers me about Hans is how quick he was to discard Anna. She serves a purpose and it would benefit him greatly if others saw him put in an effort to save her. Besides, sociopaths love in their own unique way. Hans could cherish Anna as his own unique and favorite possession. And based on Elsa's reluctance to be Queen, it couldn't be hard to convince her to abdicate. But of course, he is a disney villain and not a real life person.

Finally, I think Kristoff is ISTP.


----------



## Fern

Am I the only damn person that doesn't feel a connection with_ Let it Go_? :/


As for the people...
Elsa - ISTJ Enneagram 1
Anna - ESFP 2w3 with a 7 fix 

Christoff...Kristoff? The ice guy. He struck me as a Te type, but I only saw the movie once like a year ago  I'd vote Enneagram 6w5 though

Hans is one of those evil ENFJ's you read about!! > I'd vote 3w2 but I dunno.


And Olaf. ESFJ? Again, _Let it Go_ and *this *guy annoyed me to no end... Where is my soul?


----------



## DeductiveReasoner

I was sold on Christophe being an ISTP for most of the movie.

But then there's a scene where he removes one of the snowman's arms and just gazes at it, mumbling "fascinating"

this.
is.
such.
an
INTP thing.

I can't emphasize that enough.


----------



## Simpson17866

*Elsa: ExxJ*



Simpson17866 said:


> Elsa's parents certainly spent 10 years scaring her into acting ISxJ, and they seem to have done an effective job (seeing as she still acts the same way after 3 years on her own), but I'm not sure that's what her natural state is supposed to be.
> 
> When Elsa runs off and "Lets it Go," she may have left the external stressors behind (primary fear of hurting other people with her lethality, secondary fear of disappointing them with her non-conformity), but she still has the 13 years of psychological repression that had been building from the time she was 8, so her choice to continue living the same kind life is not actually as natural for her as it appears.
> 
> At the end of the movie, when Elsa finally controls her powers and finds that her people accept her, she stops isolating herself. She had convinced herself on the mountain that "being far away from anybody that I could hurt" was more liberating than "being surrounded by people that I might hurt," but in the end it turned out that her isolation itself was as much of a problem as had been the motivation behind it.
> 
> "Let it Go" was entirely about Elsa lying to herself, so the fact that she traded one "kingdom of isolation" for another was actually not as liberating as it appeared at the time.


*Anna: INFP*



Simpson17866 said:


> ... Towards the end of Anna's isolation, she was focused more on her ideas of the world would be like (parties, romance…) then about what she wanted to do in the world (N)... When Anna got her chance at freedom, she focused more of her time on the three people that she was already comfortable with (the sister she used to know very well, the prince she thought she knew very well, the outdoorsman she'd hired to find said sister) than than on exploring the world in general (I).


*Kristoff: ISTP*

Even when he cares about people, he shows it in an extremely impersonal way (IT), and he seems to focus on "harvesting ice" (SP) more than on "being an ice harvester" (N and/or J).

*Olaf: ISFP*

Similar to Anna, but he fantasizes about the world for the sake of experiencing it later (Anna thinks of herself as doing the same thing, but actually abstracts for it's own sake more than she realizes).

*Hans: ENFJ*

He's definitely evil and doesn't care about _people_ as more than just means to an end, but I feel like his relationships _with_ said people are still the goal.


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## sofa18

Elsa is and INFJ for sure
Anna strikes me as an ENFP
Olaf ESFP
And I believe Kristoff is a ISTP
Hans I think and ENTP but its hard because he hides his real personality basicly for the hole movie


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## Miss Bingley

I'm reviving this thread from death because a) I just watched the movie again, and b) I can't let a good MBTI debate die

quick reminders before my thoughts:
Fe does not equal 'putting others before yourself', 'being a good ruler', 'caring about others', etc. Those are 'basic human being' traits, not Fe traits. 
Also if you relate to a character, that automatically doesn't mean they are the same type as you. Sheesh. 

MOVING ON:

*Olaf*: ENFP - Olaf pretty much relies solely on ideas; "Oh, I love the _idea _of summer!" - That whole song is Ne. However, he has nothing to connect his ideas to (any kind of truth, what summer is really like...because he's a snowman) (i.e. Si). He cares about the people close to him, even if he cannot relate to them. For example, when Anna tells Olaf that Hans isn't her true love, he doesn't sympathize/empathize with her, because he can't, and instead offers solutions (Te) - "we simply find another kind of true love!". He also is shown to be a romantic, telling her that Kristoff truly loves her because he left her behind (NF-type of thought)
*
HANS*: ENFJ - Hans is in no way an ENTJ, and he is one of the few Fe users in the film, but he uses his Fe for evil. He reads people so well - he quickly analyzes Anna and is able to understand her weaknesses (her desire to be loved), and mimics that so he can 'relate' to her. While Hans quietly infiltrates Arendelle, and tries to become "the hero Arendelle deserves", I feel as if an ENTJ would be more inclined to just show up with an army and invade the city.

*KRISTOFF*: ISTP - Kristoff is not an ISTJ. Think about it - is he really an SJ? I hate to use stereotypes, but the ISTP is often called the 'Mechanic', is it not? Kristoff is very hands on and analytical in a TiSe way. Despite his instance that he likes being on his own with just Sven, he really longs to be a part of something (As Anna says, no one wants to be alone) but is not good at expressing it (inferior Fe)

*ANNA: *ESFP - A lot of people type Anna as an ENFP, but compare her to Ariel, a clear ENFP. Ariel collects things that have no real meaning, but are special to her (inferior Si), and is constantly wondering what is out there. Anna does this too, but Ariel is more conceptual ("What is a fire, and how does it, what's the word, burn? When's it my turn? When will I learn?"). She wants to _learn_. Anna on the other hand wants to _experience_. She is all about the _physical, _even when she was young ("Do you want to build a snowman? Or ride our bike around the halls?) and when she gets out of the palace, she is still all about _physical_ experience ("Why have a ballroom with no balls? / They'll be actual real live people / There'll be music, there'll be light / I'll be dancing through the night / What if I meet the one? / Tonight imagine me gown and all, fetchingly draped against the wall, the picture of sophisticated grace"). All of this is Se. And don't say "She can't be Se because she's clumsy" like please. That's not Se. Sensing is about information processing. 

*ELSA*: ISTJ - for the love of god, Elsa is not an INFJ, though I know a lot of INFJs relate to her, which is fine. For a true INFJ Disney princess, I would probably look at Pocahontas. Elsa is very guarded with her emotions. She does feel things intensely, but expresses them in private (like, freezing her room) (Fi). In the beginning, she sings "Be the good girl you always have to be / Conceal, don't feel / Make one wrong move and everyone will know" - the beginning part, about duty, is very SJ while the end part is catastrophizing typical of inferior Ne. She is very blunt when dealing with her sister on coronation day ("Things can't be like this. They just can't. I don't need to tell you why" "You're not marrying someone you just met. You're _not_. You don't have my blessing. Everyone get out. We're closing the gates") and is unhealthy SiTe. When what she fears most occurs ("Everyone has discovered my secret!") she fleas, which is an Si-Fi functional loop. Si-Fi loops are associated with _avoidance._ As Elsa runs away to her ice castle, she thinks she is saving everyone she loves from what could happen (more inferior Fe catastrophizing), but this avoidance is what caused problems in the first place (Si-Fi overlooking Te). "Let It Go", however, shows positive expression of inferior Ne - creativity, seeing positive possibilities of being truly herself, etc. 

Okay, I'm done. Y'all can fight me now.


----------



## platorepublic

Disney said Elsa was an INTJ, lol.

What Is Your Disney Personality Type? | Whoa | Oh My Disney


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## Tram

1.


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## Tram

.


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## Chesire Tower

Why is this here and not in the "Guess the Type" subforum?


----------



## PastelBunny

I liked this movie when I first saw it. It wasn't great, but it was entertaining:happy:! BUT I think I've been traumatized by all the frozen. ALL THE FROZEN:crazy:! Anyway, on with the typings \(>-<)/!
Anna: ENFP. She seems to be quite Ne-ish, but in an annoying " omg so quirky xD" way:sad:... I really, really, REALLY do NOT like her at all... I think they tried to hard to make her quirky and awkward and cute...
Elsa: I think probably ISTJ? I LOVE Elsa! She's so mature and realistic compared to a lot of the other disneys girls! I think she's a great character, and one of the best disney girls! I wish the movie was about her more...
Olaf: EXFP? 
Kristoph: Probably ISTP
Sven: I definitely think INFP. Even though he doesn't talk he seems like one.
Hans: I think he might be a very, VERY unhealthy ENFJ. He's so emotionally manipulative, which I think might be more common in unhealthy ENFJs than ENTJs, which I thought he was at first. He certainly has a lot of evil Fe


----------



## Librarian

PastelBunny said:


> I liked this movie when I first saw it. It wasn't great, but it was entertaining:happy:! BUT I think I've been traumatized by all the frozen. ALL THE FROZEN:crazy:! Anyway, on with the typings \(>-<)/!
> Anna: ENFP. She seems to be quite Ne-ish, but in an annoying " omg so quirky xD" way:sad:... I really, really, REALLY do NOT like her at all... I think they tried to hard to make her quirky and awkward and cute...
> Elsa: I think probably ISTJ? I LOVE Elsa! She's so mature and realistic compared to a lot of the other disneys girls! I think she's a great character, and one of the best disney girls! I wish the movie was about her more...
> I agree; I would have loved to see more of Elsa, though I personally liked Anna as she reminds me of my sister. Agree with ENFP for her and also ISTJ for Elsa. I think it's nice to see a mature character who is also complex, and because ISTJs are often unfairly steryeotyped I enjoyed seeing an ISTJ-like character who, while still having some "tropes", is also deeper than they are typically portrayed. Perhaps on a symbolic level, Elsa is INFJ, but in terms of type and functions, ISTJ seems to be the best supported argument. It is great to see a non-INFJ character (particularly a Sensor) get an in-depth character strory. There really are not many characters portrayed this way anymore, and it is a breath of fresh air.


----------



## Amy

Anna: ESFP 

Elsa: ISFP

Olaf: ENFP

Kristoff: ISFP

Hans: No idea. I don't remember what he did in the movie lol!


----------



## Librarian

ISFP is not something I see Elsa typed as too often. I see her as a J, especially since I saw Frozen Fever, where she is very organized. But I'm always glad to see someone say she is a Si Fi user; I am very surprised when people say Ni Fe as that kind of contradicts the film.

I think Hans may be either ENFJ/ENTJ.


----------



## Snowflake Minuet

Librarian said:


> ISFP is not something I see Elsa typed as too often. I see her as a J, especially since I saw Frozen Fever, where she is very organized. But I'm always glad to see someone say she is a Si Fi user; I am very surprised when people say Ni Fe as that kind of contradicts the film.



_TO EVERYONE WHO THINKS THAT ELSA CANNOT BE AN INFJ...please read this. 

_I know this is long, but please take a moment; at least skim. Also, I'd like to add that the next possible type I see Elsa as is INTJ (as I've heard Disney actually typed her...I simply do not see the argument for her being a sensor, it works on a surface level but the more you think about it and try to see the big picture of all the little (and big) pieces of her past, it just doesn't fit well enough--in my view, at least.





*Dominant Ni*

When Elsa finally starts to discover herself and explore the potential of her magical powers, the absence of introverted sensing and strong presence of introverted intuition seems to really jump out. As an intuitive, she’s just beginning to freely experiment with her incredible creative abilities, and with Ni, she delves deeply into this one thing. The whole process of building the ice palace even seems like a representation of Ni working—gradually connecting ideas (abilities), moments of discovery along the way (swirling snow patterns, snowman, staircase), all eventually coming together as a realized whole (palace). 


(personal example)
* *




(It’s like writing papers, for example, for me: I’ve finally come to trust and be comfortable with the process of my mind the more I’ve become aware of it. I know that if I just to some focused thinking about what it is I have to write about, I can then let go of it in my conscious mind. It slips back under the surface, but as long as I am interested (which generally isn’t a problem), my mind will keep working away at it. The more confident I’ve become with this process, it’s almost as though I’m stepping back and can watch my mind work things out. This will go on for even days, and throughout I’ll have moments where suddenly I’m aware of the paper again because something has pulled together and jumps back to my conscious (I guess that’s sort of like the ah-ha moment one often sees Ni compared to). Sometimes they’ll be smaller ideas and I’ll just write a small something, sometimes it feels like all those things come together and I can totally absorbed for hours and write a very coherent, organized paper. It’s almost as though the whole paper has organized itself in my mind but I can’t really see it until I start pouring it out in writing. If I try to evade this process and force myself to write the paper to quickly, I can still write a good paper alright, but those times they rarely turn out to be as good, and it always feel so much slower and broken and forced to write hat way.





> INFJ’s tend to be instinctively creative (though they may not realize this for the longest time, especially when in an unnurturing environment) and are drawn toward a plethora of artistic and mystical themes. A self-aware INFJ goes through life wanting to learn and understand everything possible; their intense Ni visionary drive has an insatiable lust for knowledge and discovery.


( https://typeskeptic.wordpress.com/20...f-perspective/ )

Elsa had to spend so much time in physical containment and an environment that also confined her creativity and her self expression, both creative and emotional (see later about Fe). When she finally is given the opportunity, she fully embraces chance to discover her abilities and is greatly excited by letting lose her creativity. She is eager to “test the limits and break through,” which shows the visionary drive and want to learn and discover. 


*Auxiliary Fe*

Throughout the movie, Elsa is very Fe driven. (Very aware of social expectations, motivation is the welfare of others over herself and social harmony, enjoys making others happy (like at end with good use of powers) but not needing the center stage herself (definitely introverted dominantly), etc. 



> For INFJs, expressing themselves through their Fe is critical to their psychological and physical health and well-being. Even if doing so does not provide them with immediate solutions to the problem at hand, they tend to feel better once they have expressed their feelings, whether through words or tear … While not necessarily looking for others to solve their problems, INFJs value emotional support, empathy, and reassurance. Without such an outlet, INFJs can begin to feel isolated and depressed, turning to their inner fantasy world as a means of escape. And while fantasizing may seem helpful in the short-term, it can make the real world seem even less tolerable and exacerbate existing frustrations toward life.


(By Dr. A. J. Drenth here on Personality Junkie INFJ Personality Type: Lover of Beauty & Wisdom )

The psychological damage Elsa experiences in her childhood, and the way in which it affects her, goes far beyond type (beyond what Si would explain), but as an INFJ, the way this hurts her also makes extra sense. As an INFJ, I can’t imagine what kind of emotional shape I’d be in if I was not able to freely express my feelings and troubles to others, through Fe. It is so true that this is critical to our well-being. Elsa must have had so much going on inside that was tormenting her, yet she could not express it in any way or to anyone—not even through creativity, with her magical powers. And she didn’t do this also because of Fe: wanting to create harmony and being very aware of social expectations, trying so hard to do what her parents wanted after they are gone (also a great loss of support), not wanting to hurt her sister who she loves, and also fear of her own safety and potential self destruction (warning from the trolls). 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



> The INFJ will often find the need to “shape-shift” into various character roles in order to smoothly adapt to their often-hostile (at least hostile to their natural mental preferences) social surroundings. With enough skill and practice, they can take on, embrace and mimic the expected character role that is idealized by whatever social context the are currently engaged in.


( https://typeskeptic.wordpress.com/20...f-perspective/ )

Elsa tries very hard to fill the role she is pushed into, the role of the queen. Especially under what would be difficult circumstances for a person without special powers, she does this quite successfully. This only falls through because she doesn’t know how to deal with her magical abilities (an issue which is clearly not type related), as the only tactic she’s used so far is concealing.
When she breaks free from following her role and its expectations, she’s finally listening to her Ni rather than choosing to follow Fe. See the following quote:



> INFJs commonly experience a conflict in values between their Ni and Fe. … Since INFJs can having difficulty saying no, they will often opt to oblige others, even while inwardly regretting doing so. … This can leave them feeling torn between allegiance to truth (Ni) versus Fe people-pleasing.


(Personality Junkie)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



> The flipside to the INFJ’s natural charm is their tendency to display persistent anger and rage when all else fails (like each of the other Fe types)—in this case the INFJ can suddenly become a menacing physical presence to those on the receiving end of their intense ire.


(https://typeskeptic.wordpress.com/20...f-perspective/ )

I think this also has something to do with Se for Elsa (so there won’t be as much there), but the above quote very well describes some of Elsa’s actions. When she runs away from the coronation is a perfect example, as is the time Anna visits and when she is being chased later. Marshmallow is like a physical realization of this.


*Tertiary Ti*

I read an argument on a different site against INFJ as the type for Elsa in which the example of her disapproval of Anna’s hasty engagement was used as support for lack of Fe. I see that example as a perfect display of her strong Fe motivations, as well as showing Ti. She did disapprove quickly, but I saw it as an act of both rationality (use of Ti) and yet another example of her looking out for her sister, being quite the protector (haha, the INFJ!). 


*Inferior Se*



> As “highly sensitive persons (HSPs),” their nervous system is highly permeable and sensitive to all sorts of stimuli. This can make them more susceptible to being overwhelmed or overstimulated than other personality types. In some cases, because of their N-S disconnect, they may not realize that they are overstimulated until it’s too late.


(Personality Junkie)

An example of this in Elsa is when she flees after the coronation. She can manage for some time holding herself together, but eventually it’s just too much. She gets pushed over the edge and falls apart from all the outside stimuli and the stress of trying to conceal her powers. When that happens to me I, rather like Elsa, just need to run away in a sense. I can hold myself together pretty well to some extent under overwhelming circumstances, but when something from the outside forces me to break my then delicate composer, I fall apart and simply cannot function as normal: I just need to get out.



_A few more thoughts on why Si doesn’t necessarily fit, and other additional thoughts_

Yes she is influenced by past occurrences to make the decisions she does, but that doesn’t have to point to Si. The first time she hurt her sister it was no small thing—she knows that a slip could mean she could fatally harm her. Such a traumatic experience, and at a pretty young age, would deeply affect most any type and have a lasting impact. Elsa being such a caring character, especially towards her sister, also supports this. I actually see her as being much more future oriented—past experiences like that would haunt and influence anyone. But she is happy when she says that “the past is in the past,” she is happy to be able to move on and explore what kind of a future she can create for herself. I think what holds her back has more to do with Fe and her responsibility as the queen than it has anything to do with Si. Think of the symbolism of her tossing away her crown when she sings the above quote—she’s finally let go of that dedication to follow her Fe above Ni.


----------



## Librarian

Thank you so much for your wonderful, well rounded response/ argument, Snowflake Minuet! It is by far the best Elsa INFJ argument I have read. It is a rather popular argument, yet no one has ever truly helped see why she could be one. But yours truly impressed me; it had facts, cognitive function explanations and you even left links to personality sites! I am rather humbled my question led to such an in-depth response; I didn't think anyone would find much value in my questions like that. Yet you did and.... you actually got me to see from a different point of view. I can see the Elsa INFJ argument now, and as odd as it may sound, it means a lot to me, to see another side. After reading it, I even came up with INFJ moments in Frozen that weren't in your post (With all due respect to your post, of course.) I can't imagine how much thought and effort went into this response and I am so grateful for it.

With respect to your argument I must say honestly that I still lean more on the ISTJ side of the classic Elsa Debate. But it has nothing to do with any fault in your argument; not at all! 

It is not just the film that sways my typing (mostly, but not fully.) Confession: I am a Frozen fan. A huge one. I saw the short, read as many official books as reasonably possible, and went out of my way to see YouTube clips with Anna and Elsa on Once upon a Time. Yes, maybe it is weird for a way late teens girl to be a fan of Frozen, but my younger INFJ sister ( who is responsible for my Frozen Love and many other interests. How she does it I'll never know. Maybe her subtle influence is an INFJ thing!) has shown me I should not let that stop me from enjoying things. Anyway, I have seen moments for Elsa in expanded universe stuff that has partly influenced me. Perhaps once I get better at this forum thing I can explain why I see Elsa as ISTJ at different moments and include extended universe material too. The twist: I will also include her INFJ moments that I can now see thanks to your influential post. But that is only if I learn this forum deal better and as long as it does not offend anyone on turn into a Me Vs You thing because I have nothing but true respect for your argument. Also, internet wars are rather undignified and my Sis would be unhappy if I partook of one. Also Again: my INFJ Sister means a lot and I might take it personally if someone started to slam INFJs due to my words.

Finally, allow me to apologize. I would have responded sooner, had a response ready in fact, soon after I saw your post but I somehow messed up my account and it shut down my ability to reply and my original response was deleted. Embarassing? Yeah, only I could mess up a simple forum account and not solve the problem for a whole week! Pretty pathetic. Anyway, I am so sorry for the late reply and the frustation this probally caused you. I mean, you gave a well researched response and I was so rude for not replying. Please know that I was not ignoring you willingly and that is was my foolish mistake that caused the "silence" and I understand if you were upset by it; it was quite annoying for me, that's for sure. 

Thank you again for giving me a new perspective on one of my favorite films and for putting so much effort into it. It was a pleasure to read.


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## Parrot

@Snowflake Minuet with INFJ & @Librarian shows that at least one of you is terrible at typing. I'm more inclined to say the latter is, because what kind of ISTJ abandons her post as Queen to disappear from the world?

I've only seen the movie once, but I saw INFJ 1w9 for her. ESFP 7w6 for Anna.


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## Snowflake Minuet

@Librarian Your incredibly thoughtful and kind response meant so much to me, I really cannot begin to thank you enough. And please do not feel bad one bit, I honestly didn't expect to get a response like that, and those things totally happen anyway! I'm so flattered that you found my argument to be so persuasive, it makes me incredibly happy to be able to write something well enough that it can sway perspectives/encourage others to really see something in a new way--it's really a humbling experience when that happens, so thank you so very much!  The ability to express myself well in the written word and also to make a good argument are both things that I value a lot and enjoy the process of, and of trying to do well, and when someone else shows that I must have done a good job, it's really meaningful! 

But honestly, this was fun for me to do. I hadn't originally intended to write nearly so much, but I got a bit carried away. When I saw your very good point--that there was a clear lack of good explanation for one possible typing of the character--I couldn't leave that alone. I got all excited by the opportunity to defend my side of the argument and the challenge, and it was fun to do. It's also been a bit too long, apparently, since I've had to do something like this--part of me definitely misses the papers of last semester I know I posted it more than once, but it was just that I found a better place to put it (a thread titled Frozen, which I hadn't known existed before!) and I wanted to take out the spoiler alert shortening thing, but it was too late to edit it out of the first post. 

Also, I'm perfectly happy that you still would type Elsa differently. While I do see her most strongly as an INFJ, I certainly am not counting out other possibilities and am also happy to see other sides of the argument. I am just so thrilled and honoured that my argument made someone see another side of the argument so well, that's really what I hoped for, not to have to change anyone's opinion. Honestly, typing arguments can be fun, and know that I am also open minded to other typing possibilities...the Elsa debate is a good one and I just wanted to try and contribute to one perspective in it. I have to confess that I'm a bit of a Frozen fan myself...also a late teen girl I am looking forward to seeing your argument for ISTJ in the future if you choose to write one eventually, I think there's lots of good evidence to support that argument as well 

The other thing with Elsa, I think, is that she was written to be very relatable...for a lot of people. I'm guessing that's one benefit of having her struggles be with a magical power: her particular struggles therefore cannot apply directly to anyone, but rather can be applied to most anyone and many struggles symbolically. I have a feeling Frozen's creators would be thrilled that so many different MBTI types are being well applied to this character. 

Thank you so very, very much again, you really made way more than my day And say hi to your sister from a fellow INFJ! And have fun on the forum


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## Librarian

Drunk Parrot said:


> @Snowflake Minuet with INFJ & @Librarian shows that at least one of you is terrible at typing. I'm more inclined to say the latter is, because what kind of ISTJ abandons her post as Queen to disappear from the world?
> 
> I've only seen the movie once, but I saw INFJ 1w9 for her. ESFP 7w6 for Anna.


But I CAN see the INFJ argument, especially now. I'm not against it all and my intention was never to offend anyone. With all due respect to your side, I would not say I am terrible at typing (And certainly not Snowflake Minuet, who went through a complex argument) though I admit I am far from being the MBTI authority and I am certainly not an expert on INFJs or ISTJs. I do have reasons for the ISTJ argument but I have not yet posted this argument in full, so I can kind of understand why you would find my side "terrible." And again, if I do post this veiw it will also include things about Elsa that I see as INFJ, including the post abandonment you mentioned, though there is a little more to this that I would like to explain later.

I don't go against pooular opinion just for the heck of it; I have seen this film many times and while not an expert on typing, I still think my knowledge is fairly good. I have read a lot on MBTI, be it on the internet or in official books. And I think my arguments out before jumping to conclusions, which is why I wish to wait on giving my full theory on Elsa in the first place. 

Anyway, I would not say my typing is terrible (for the most part) but if you would like to hear from those who DO know more than I do, why not check these links out? (There are not many full INFJ arguments sadly, besides the one you read. Let me know if you have any more. I'd love to read more on it.)

Frozen: Elsa [ISTJ] Introverted Sensing (Si):... | Funky MBTI in Fiction

https://mbtifiction.com/2015/03/01/elsa-frozen-istj/

There are more, but if you would like to find them for yourself just search for Elsa ISTJ on a web search. Same with searching Elsa INFJ, maybe you will run across a good link I missed. Once again, please let me know; I knid of love this debate and gaining new perspectives.


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## Librarian

Drunk Parrot said:


> @Snowflake Minuet with INFJ & @Librarian shows that at least one of you is terrible at typing. I'm more inclined to say the latter is, because what kind of ISTJ abandons her post as Queen to disappear from the world?
> 
> I've only seen the movie once, but I saw INFJ 1w9 for her. ESFP 7w6 for Anna.


But I CAN see the INFJ argument, especially now. I'm not against it all and my intention was never to offend anyone. With all due respect to your side, I would not say I am terrible at typing (And certainly not Snowflake Minuet, who went through a complex argument) though I admit I am far from being the MBTI authority and I am certainly not an expert on INFJs or ISTJs. I do have reasons for the ISTJ argument but I have not yet posted this argument in full, so I can kind of understand why you would find my side "terrible." And again, if I do post this veiw it will also include things about Elsa that I see as INFJ, including the post abandonment you mentioned, though there is a little more to this that I would like to explain later.

I don't go against pooular opinion just for the heck of it; I have seen this film many times and while not an expert on typing, I still think my knowledge is fairly good. I have read a lot on MBTI, be it on the internet or in official books. And I think my arguments out before jumping to conclusions, which is why I wish to wait on giving my full theory on Elsa in the first place. 

Anyway, I would not say my typing is terrible (for the most part) but if you would like to hear from those who DO know more than I do, why not check these links out? (There are not many full INFJ arguments sadly, besides the one you read. Let me know if you have any more. I'd love to read more on it.)

Frozen: Elsa [ISTJ] Introverted Sensing (Si):... | Funky MBTI in Fiction

https://mbtifiction.com/2015/03/01/elsa-frozen-istj/

There are more, but if you would like to find them for yourself just search for Elsa ISTJ on a web search. Same with searching Elsa INFJ, maybe you will run across a good link I missed. Once again, please let me know; I knid of love this debate and gaining new perspectives.


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## Parrot

@Librarian I'm just a typing snob that belittles people I disagree with in an offensive manner. :happy:

I checked those links, and that is why I must be a snob. Without any "experts", typology is very much amateur driven. And I've looked at funkymbti before, and whoever runs it is terrible. I will change my hatred & vitriol towards them, instead.


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## Librarian

Drunk Parrot said:


> @Librarian I'm just a typing snob that belittles people I disagree with in an offensive manner. :happy:
> 
> I checked those links, and that is why I must be a snob. Without any "experts", typology is very much amateur driven. And I've looked at funkymbti before, and whoever runs it is terrible. I will change my hatred & vitriol towards them, instead.


I agree with you on the fact that typing is a very difficult thing to without "experts", especially with fictional characters. I mean, the creators can change their character as much as they wish for the sake of the plot. People can also have many interpretations on a character and it can be hard to "disprove" such ideas. I like MBTI and all, but for me personally, it is not something I will ever believe can tell you about your personality with 100% percent. This is, of course, impossible. I find it can be useful, entertaining, but not fully science based. I don't have anything against the type of sites I referenced, but for me, fictional characters will always be up for debate. It is the reason why I like to see a character such as Elsa from various perspectives because at the end of the day, I can see both ISTJ and INFJ for her at different points of the film. I know it seems like a cop out, but in all honesty I can not say she is fully one type or the other. Yes, a character may exhibit more traits than the other, but they will always be fictional and therefore up for debate. Will I still debate? Sure, but I understand that my side will never be 100% correct. And I am okay with that; the world would be more on the boring side if everything we did could be determined by four letters.


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## Parrot

Librarian said:


> I agree with you on the fact that typing is a very difficult thing to without "experts", especially with fictional characters. I mean, the creators can change their character as much as they wish for the sake of the plot. People can also have many interpretations on a character and it can be hard to "disprove" such ideas. I like MBTI and all, but for me personally, it is not something I will ever believe can tell you about your personality with 100% percent. This is, of course, impossible. I find it can be useful, entertaining, but not fully science based. I don't have anything against the type of sites I referenced, but for me, fictional characters will always be up for debate. It is the reason why I like to see a character such as Elsa from various perspectives because at the end of the day, I can see both ISTJ and INFJ for her at different points of the film. I know it seems like a cop out, but in all honesty I can not say she is fully one type or the other. Yes, a character may exhibit more traits than the other, but they will always be fictional and therefore up for debate. Will I still debate? Sure, but I understand that my side will never be 100% correct. And I am okay with that; the world would be more on the boring side if everything we did could be determined by four letters.


I think MBTI best sums up a person's thought process as well as their perception. Enneagram fills out the emotional & instinctual variants rounds out the rest.


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## Beetroot_is_a_wild_animal

https://ohmy.disney.com/movies/2014/04/14/what-is-your-disney-personality-type/


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## Librarian

Beetroot_is_a_wild_animal said:


> https://ohmy.disney.com/movies/2014/04/14/what-is-your-disney-personality-type/


So you think Elsa is INTJ?


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## Beetroot_is_a_wild_animal

Librarian said:


> So you think Elsa is INTJ?


I just thought that it's worth looking at Disney's take on their characters.

I don't think it's impossible though. Giving Anna practical advice to not "marry a man she just met" doesn't have to make her an ISTJ like some people are suggesting. An INTJ would say that as well because they are known for seeming practical too - even though it's actually just part of them being simultaneously "starry-eyed idealists and the bitterest of cynics". When Anna wants to play with Elsa, Elsa tells her to go play by herself. But as soon as Anna mentions building a snowman, Elsa changes her mind, which could be because she is being offered the opportunity to showcase her abilities. If she is an INTJ she is not a very confident one (which does exist.) She has been told to hide herself and what she can do during the developmental years of her life, so not having been given the opportunity to hone her skills with pride, those skills may not be as clearly visible as what would be seen in a stereotypical INTJ.
But like Disney says, it's up for debate.

And when googling mbti types of characters, I wouldn't take everything on those google image mbti profiles as fact. When someone showed J.K Rowling one of those images based on Harry Potter characters she said that not one if them is right - and being interested in mbti herself and knowing her own characters better than anybody, I would trust her. Definitely more than Google anyway.


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## Librarian

Beetroot_is_a_wild_animal said:


> I just thought that it's worth looking at Disney's take on their characters.
> 
> I don't think it's impossible though. Giving Anna practical advice to not "marry a man she just met" doesn't have to make her an ISTJ like some people are suggesting. An INTJ would say that as well because they are known for seeming practical too - even though it's actually just part of them being simultaneously "starry-eyed idealists and the bitterest of cynics". When Anna wants to play with Elsa, Elsa tells her to go play by herself. But as soon as Anna mentions building a snowman, Elsa changes her mind, which could be because she is being offered the opportunity to showcase her abilities. If she is an INTJ she is not a very confident one (which does exist.) She has been told to hide herself and what she can do during the developmental years of her life, so not having been given the opportunity to hone her skills with pride, those skills may not be as clearly visible as what would be seen in a stereotypical INTJ.
> But like Disney says, it's up for debate.
> 
> And when googling mbti types of characters, I wouldn't take everything on those google image mbti profiles as fact. When someone showed J.K Rowling one of those images based on Harry Potter characters she said that not one if them is right - and being interested in mbti herself and knowing her own characters better than anybody, I would trust her. Definitely more than Google anyway.


I find it odd as well when people say Elsa is Si because of denying Anna's proposal; this is Te and doesn't have much to do with N or S. She is blunt, not very sympathetic and firm in her statement. This is Te at its best and worst, to me anyway. I have most often thought of Elsa as ISTJ but INTJ is certainly possible; I was glad to see someone take this viewpoint as it is not done often. I'll bet a good argument could be made for Elsa as INTJ. I mean, Disney suggested this but I would enjoy considering it on a more complex level as people describe her as INFJ/ISTJ here. 

Elsas most popular typings (and the typical method used for each argument) based on my observation , are as follows:
1.INFJ (the "vibe." She has the feel of INFJ, If that makes sense.)
2.ISTJ (Cognitive functions based. Si Te Ne Fi are often associated with Elsa)
3INTJ/ISFJ (a close tie. These types seems to be chosen due to the basic preferences, not quite so focused on functions.)

And I also agree that MBTI charts are near impossible to trust; the Disney Princesses chart may be my least favorite. Plus: I had no idea that J.K Rowling spoke on the subject of MBTI; too bad not many creators type their own characters. With all due respect, I might trust the Disney typings if they were typed by one of the people who worked on these characters. Oh My Disney holds some ground since they are directly associated with Disney, but it's not quite the same as if a person who helped create Elsa typed her.


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## Beetroot_is_a_wild_animal

Librarian said:


> And I also agree that MBTI charts are near impossible to trust; the Disney Princesses chart may be my least favorite. Plus: I had no idea that J.K Rowling spoke on the subject of MBTI; too bad not many creators type their own characters. With all due respect, I might trust the Disney typings if they were typed by one of the people who worked on these characters. Oh My Disney holds some ground since they are directly associated with Disney, but it's not quite the same as if a person who helped create Elsa typed her.


On Twitter somebody randomly said to her that they are "both INFPs" or something. But they only thought that because it's written everywhere. Anybody who is a famous writer is most likely to be typed as an INFP (because of Shakespeare,) but J.K Rowling replied that she is actually an INFJ (and according to her, so is Dumbledore.) I'd love to see an end to these stereotypes.


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## Beetroot_is_a_wild_animal

And I agree that Oh My Disney won't be entirely accurate without the input of the people responsible for writing/creating the character. Their typings do make a little more sense than those other charts though. 
Another reason why those charts shouldn't be trusted is that the characters always happen to ALL be different types, which is highly unlikely to be true.


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## Snowflake Minuet

Beetroot_is_a_wild_animal said:


> Another reason why those charts shouldn't be trusted is that the characters always happen to ALL be different types, which is highly unlikely to be true.


Yes! Just like this (actually I think @*Librarian* mentioned a disney princess one too?) :










I mean, get that it looks nice to fill out a chart and have one for each type like that, but in reality, try to find me one single book, movie, or a sort of "collection" of those (like the disney princesses) that has one solid example of a character of each of the 16 MBTI types. Probably not going to happen (at least highly unlikely)! I personally agree with some of those (Elsa, Ariel, Pocahontas, Merida, Rapunzel, and Cinderella), but there is no way. In trying to do that, one gets things like Belle typed as an INTJ. That's a new one!

There are so many charts like that out there, where they organize it by fitting characters from one thing into each and every MBTI type. I think there's far more potential for accuracy if one does it the other way around (make a chart of, say, ESFPs from all sorts of various things).


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## Librarian

Snowflake Minuet said:


> Yes! Just like this (actually I think @*Librarian* mentioned a disney princess one too?) :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I mean, get that it looks nice to fill out a chart and have one for each type like that, but in reality, try to find me one single book, movie, or a sort of "collection" of those (like the disney princesses) that has one solid example of a character of each of the 16 MBTI types. Probably not going to happen (at least highly unlikely)! I personally agree with some of those (Elsa, Ariel, Pocahontas, Merida, Rapunzel, and Cinderella), but there is no way. In trying to do that, one gets things like Belle typed as an INTJ. That's a new one!
> 
> There are so many charts like that out there, where they organize it by fitting characters from one thing into each and every MBTI type. I think there's far more potential for accuracy if one does it the other way around (make a chart of, say, ESFPs from all sorts of various things).


Yes,that was the one I was referencing! Like you say, some of them could be believable, but as a whole this chart is hard to take seriously. I do respect the nice, well made style of the chart. I am all for different viewpoints, but the issue with these charts is there is not always something backing it up elsewhere. Elsa as INFJ? You can find written arguments and personal testament elsewhere on the web. Rapunzel as ENFP? Not only is this a common typing for her, but it has also been explained. Again, just because a type is generally attributed to a character as the popular vote does not necessarily make it correct and I like to see a different side; but if you can't find an argument at all it is less likely to be as accurate as if there were already discussions. Belle as INTJ ... only the Disney blog has typed her that way, but other than that nothing comes to mind. Also, Disney blog also typed Elsa as one, and while we each may have different views, I think most would agree that Elsa and Belle have differences in personality and therefore I have to again question this reasoning on Disney's part. 

I don't know if Auroa is INFP, seems to me she is more of an in the moment type gal. INTP for Jasmine seems... off to me. I don't know that Mulan is organized enough to be SJ, maybe they thought "ooh, duty person, let's go with Mulan." I think Anna and Rapunzel are both ENFPs but according to MBTI chart law we can't possibly have two of the same type here. 

On the plausible side, I think Meg could qualify as ISTP.


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## Librarian

Snowflake Minuet said:


> Yes! Just like this (actually I think @*Librarian* mentioned a disney princess one too?) :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I mean, get that it looks nice to fill out a chart and have one for each type like that, but in reality, try to find me one single book, movie, or a sort of "collection" of those (like the disney princesses) that has one solid example of a character of each of the 16 MBTI types. Probably not going to happen (at least highly unlikely)! I personally agree with some of those (Elsa, Ariel, Pocahontas, Merida, Rapunzel, and Cinderella), but there is no way. In trying to do that, one gets things like Belle typed as an INTJ. That's a new one!
> 
> There are so many charts like that out there, where they organize it by fitting characters from one thing into each and every MBTI type. I think there's far more potential for accuracy if one does it the other way around (make a chart of, say, ESFPs from all sorts of various things).


Yes,that was the one I was referencing! Like you say, some of them could be believable, but as a whole this chart is hard to take seriously. I do respect the nice, well made style of the chart. I am all for different viewpoints, but the issue with these charts is there is not always something backing it up elsewhere. Elsa as INFJ? You can find written arguments and personal testament elsewhere on the web. Rapunzel as ENFP? Not only is this a common typing for her, but it has also been explained. Again, just because a type is generally attributed to a character as the popular vote does not necessarily make it correct and I like to see a different side; but if you can't find an argument at all it is less likely to be as accurate as if there were already discussions. Belle as INTJ ... only the Disney blog has typed her that way, but other than that nothing comes to mind. Also, Disney blog also typed Elsa as one, and while we each may have different views, I think most would agree that Elsa and Belle have differences in personality and therefore I have to again question this reasoning on Disney's part. 

I don't know if Auroa is INFP, seems to me she is more of an in the moment type gal. INTP for Jasmine seems... off to me. I don't know that Mulan is organized enough to be SJ, maybe they thought "ooh, duty person, let's go with Mulan." I think Anna and Rapunzel are both ENFPs but according to MBTI chart law we can't possibly have two of the same type here. 

On the plausible side, I think Meg could qualify as ISTP.


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## starscream430

I think we can all agree that Elsa is an Introvert though :kitteh:.


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## Librarian

starscream430 said:


> I think we can all agree that Elsa is an Introvert though :kitteh:.


Actually, some say she might be extroverted because we never see her in a healthy state of being, though I for one think she is clearly introverted. Actually, non mbti sites claim her as the introvert poster child, such as this nicely researched video. 




Also this article (Under "Now they know" sub-heading): Princess Profiles: Elsa

Plus, one article on Elsa's personality I liked; I thought a lot of work went into this article and it's fun to read about Elsa's personality from a non MBTI source as it isn't trying to talk about type and just talks about her in general and it's nice to read from that side. Favorite part is under the coronation section where it jokes that it is always Anna that causes an issue and will result in Elsa "murdering the redhead." Pixellated Paracosm: Frozen Character Analyses: Elsa


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## starscream430

Librarian said:


> Actually, some say she might be extroverted because we never see her in a healthy state of being, though I for one think she is clearly introverted. Actually, non mbti sites claim her as the introvert poster child, such as this nicely researched video.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also this article (Under "Now they know" sub-heading): Princess Profiles: Elsa
> 
> Plus, one article on Elsa's personality I liked; I thought a lot of work went into this article and it's fun to read about Elsa's personality from a non MBTI source as it isn't trying to talk about type and just talks about her in general and it's nice to read from that side. Favorite part is under the coronation section where it jokes that it is always Anna that causes an issue and will result in Elsa "murdering the redhead." Pixellated Paracosm: Frozen Character Analyses: Elsa


Thanks for the articles. They're going to make for interesting reading :kitteh:.


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## Julchen

So, I've finally watched Frozen like two weeks ago and now I definitely understand all the hype from three years ago 

*Elsa:* INTJ
*Anna:* ESFP
*Hans:* ENTJ
*Olaf:* ESFJ
*Kristoff:* by far the hardest to type, in my opinion. Definitely uses Ti, so him being an ISTP would not be completely unlikely. I think someone also typed him as an rather unlikely ENFJ once? I actually could also see that working, even htough he rather striked me as an introvert and I doubt he would have a strong inferior Ti.


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## bmuddy120

Elsa is INFJ

Anna is ENFP

Kristoph ISFP most likely

Olaf is ESFP for sure


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## bmuddy120

MBTI charts are generally bad because they just try to fill them in, only a handful of those are right like Elsa, Meg, Rapunzel, the Hunchback girl, Cinderella and so on. These charts don't count for overlap, Anna's ENFP, Ariel's ENFP, Bell is INFP, and people have said Mulan is ISTP rather, I used to think ENFP but I have to rewatch it again to re-evaulate it.


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## BitterSweet Blonde

My take after watching Frozen 2:

-Elsa: INFJ
-Anna: ENFP
-Kristoff: ISTP
-Iduna (Elsa and Anna's mother): IxFx
-Agnarr (Elsa and Anna's father): ENFJ?
-Olaf: ENFP for sure, lol.


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## bigstupidgrin

Frozen? 



All those characters are idiots, I wouldn't type them.


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