# New personality theory needed now that neuroplasticity is relevant?



## stevenjore (Nov 22, 2012)

I believe that I was born extremely introverted, almost schizoid, but through the use of certain practices have become whatever I wish to be...

For example, I used to find it impossible to be an extroverted feeling but now I can practice it with ease...same with all the functions...it all comes down to sensory functions...that is the note of transmutation...if I can empty my mind, then I can fill it with whatever I wish...

The reason I say this is because i've asked 30 people what they think they are...and then what they think I am and i've received a different answer from all of them...I've taken several different quizes, each quiz says something slightly different...even answering the questions is nearly impossible...

Perhaps it is because I am amorphous, or a nebulous personality type that hasn't been discovered...perhaps one that shifts between them because energetically I am mostly introverted but only for a week, the next week I can only find energy extroverted.....it is almost like I am bipolar but not in mood, more so in energetics...

Does anyone else relate to this? Do you guys all feel you are the same way every year every day every week? Does it not change your energetics? Do you not have certain experiences that forever alter the way you are?


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## AphroditeGoneAwry (Jan 10, 2012)

Maybe you have dissociative disorder.


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## stevenjore (Nov 22, 2012)

*No.*



AphroditeGoneAwry said:


> Maybe you have dissociative disorder.


A simple no.

But what do you think about the fact that the intrinsic wiring in the brain is so malleable doesn't this eat a whole through personality theories. I've been told by a neuroscientist that the personality is easily altered permanently by a few sessions of neutofeedback. He was completely impartial to the process.


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## AphroditeGoneAwry (Jan 10, 2012)

stevenjore said:


> A simple no.
> 
> But what do you think about the fact that the intrinsic wiring in the brain is so malleable doesn't this eat a whole through personality theories. I've been told by a neuroscientist that the personality is easily altered permanently by a few sessions of neutofeedback. He was completely impartial to the process.



Well, perhaps not every alter would think he/she had dissociative disorder....

I do not believe personality type changes. I believe function order changes depending upon environment, but I believe a person is genetically wired to be a certain type from birth. 

Not sure what you mean by 'easily' altered. I'd have to disagree with that statement.


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## Dragonstar (Oct 14, 2012)

This is interesting. I will keep watch on this thread..
I can identify with the chameleon description. It is like being able to morph according to outside needs in order to do whatever ("defend" myself by going with the flow, if I wanted to, or be a complete jerk or reserved if I wanted to, lol, or appear (be?) compassionate to strangers). Sometimes I don't depend on outside environments to change. I look inside myself, clear my mind like you stated, and just decide to be a certain way- and it actually sticks. Back in high school I have had days when I am a completely different character than I was the day before. And I was _good_ at it- I was _convincing_. Sometimes I would care what others thought of me and I would bend to please them, while other times sometimes I regarded my outside environment to be more like a test experiment ("okay, I will be ___ personality today because it seems like fun, or I'm lazy, or to avoid others thinking I'm weird which = people staring at me = attention," etc.). I can be reserved or extroverted, witty or boring, sympathetic or uninterested, etc.

There are so many reasons that could be possible as to why: teenage years with no sense of self-identity yet, the idea of teenagers constantly trying on a new persona/moodiness was something I kept hearing from others, dissociative disorders, meditation, curiosity and open-mindedness, etc.

But it kind of makes it hard to figure out who _I_ am, as an identity. I certainly have my opinions and feelings/emotional reactions to things, but I am so easily able to wipe that out, that it becomes difficult to figure out what type of substance my "self" holds. 

I have the belief that although it may appear that I can "act" any personality, I still have the chameleon quality as a something that defines me (so I do not entirely begin at 0, I do have this 1 characteristic.). From what I have read, lack of developed Fi or even Fe can cause a dissociative stance towards relating to others/environment. This may hint at a tertiary or inferior F depending on your age and/or developmental process. The ability to objectively analyze your environment, or to mentally step back and observe the situation, is seen as a T quality. Perhaps this ability is so far-reaching to you that it only _appears_ that all personality has been completely wiped.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

stevenjore said:


> I believe that I was born extremely introverted, almost schizoid, but through the use of certain practices have become whatever I wish to be...
> 
> For example, I used to find it impossible to be an extroverted feeling but now I can practice it with ease...same with all the functions...it all comes down to sensory functions...that is the note of transmutation...if I can empty my mind, then I can fill it with whatever I wish...
> 
> ...




And this is why some people are _good actors_, and other people are not! :crazy: 

(Some people just can't sell a personality that isn't actually who they really are).

I'm afraid it's a dying art. :sad:

Can't a Thinker have a few _sentiments_, at least?


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## suicidal_orange (May 6, 2010)

This is a common newbie question, no offence.

If you're going by the idea that Feelers are nice while Thinkers are factual (thus often offensive) and that Extraverts are social and Introverts asocial etc then you're missing the whole point. 

Can a Te type observe that to get things done they need to accept that some people have emotions they need to get out the way first, and learn to take that into consideration? Of course. Can an Fi type learn not to take a Thinkers advice as an insult directly at their competence (inferior Te)? Yes. Same for all the other types and stereotypical behaviours. 

Over the years I've typed myself INXX (all of them) ENTP and ISFJ before deciding that I'm an ISTP so you could say my self image has changed a little. I've been everything from an emotional doormat to an emotionless wannabe robot (if you believe the stereotypes...) :laughing:

Some weeks I'll barely leave my room except to go to work but other weeks I'll be out doing things every night and most of the weekend so the whole Extravert/Introvert energy thing is meaningless to me. But do I habitually look for evidence to support what I already know rather than to adjust my understanding (Ti dom)? Yes. Do I find myself rediculously uncomfortable with emotional expectations and manipulation attempts, which often aren't even there (inferior Fe)? Yes. Thus I'm an ITP. I can easily fake "Fe behaviour" and do so when I'm down (I smile and show interest in others to deflect attention from myself) but that doesn't mean I'm using Fe; I've simply observed popular people and know how they act so can mimic it.

I would say it's more people than experiences that change me but they change what my current understanding is, not how my brain works. Also these tend to be semi-permanent changes - they may last for six months or a year before I fall back into my "default" mental state.

How long have you been looking into this @stevenjore?


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

asmit127 said:


> This is a common newbie question, no offence.
> 
> If you're going by the idea that Feelers are nice while Thinkers are factual (thus often offensive) and that Extraverts are social and Introverts asocial etc then you're missing the whole point.
> 
> ...


How could this offend anyone? It's a guilt trip on a stick! (is that worse than soap on a rope?).


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## suicidal_orange (May 6, 2010)

tanstaafl28 said:


> How could this offend anyone? It's a guilt trip on a stick! (is that worse than soap on a rope?).


Calling someone a newbie can be seen as offensive even though it obviously shouldn't be, it's just a fact. The same could be said about calling someone black but there's laws against that kind of thing which make no sense either...

I fail to see the possiblitly for a guilt trip in my post but would say that guilt trips (with or without a stick) are far worse than soap on a rope - I would use the soap to beat the tripper because the weapon could be disolved making it hard to prove.


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## Kynx (Feb 6, 2012)

It's possible that _some_ people's personality may change, it's also possible that some people developed unnaturally because of circumstances and then their type was 'corrected' back to what it should have been, rather than changed. 
I would expect there are as many factors, if not more, that may influence the health of the brain as there are factors that influence the health of every other organ in the body. 

But as far as changing personality for average, typical people, it's very unlikely. 
Firstly, why do people struggle to 'fit in' their whole lives if they could just do so by changing their personality and why would it even be an issue in the first place? Surely we would develop in the way that would have made our lives the easiest, if personality wasn't due an innate preference to begin with. The things we learn are the things that people around us are doing, so why wouldn't we mostly be the same if personality was the result a conscious development and adjustment?


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## stevenjore (Nov 22, 2012)

I've been researching the psychological functions in dream analysis for five years...so I have a very deep understanding of what they mean and imply, and I also have more recently come on to breakthroughs regarding how they apply to each other....

I'm not saying I'm not a noob though....maybe I am a noob, being a noob is a relative thing...

And it's not only about what I am either. I find that as soon as someone thinks they are a personality type and they identify with it internally, they actually become the opposite externally...who was it that said we will never see ourselves? or we are not meant to know what we are only to feel our true purpose from within? Some person said something like that once......

But here's what I'm talking about okay. There are some people who will never be flirts....I was like that...I could never flirt, I just couldn't do it, it was as if that sort of flirting - all flirting all types - was just not in me. In highschool I never went out....my personality was the guy who got all the best grades, who saw all the movies, played all the video games, but had no common sense.

Then I discovered a great ancient chinese secret. At first I thought it was spiritual mumbo jumbo...but then I applied it in a pragmatic fashion and behold....I became whatever I wished...If I wanted to attract that woman, I knew, almost as if by psychic ability what to say, how to stand. I never used this for one night stands or anything, but I will tell you that it completely shatters this notion of a personality type...Of course all ways are equally energetically to me.

The one thing that may lend credibility though, to be fair, to this personality type thing is what someone above said. The one thing that seems to be true is that it is extremely draining for me to do the same thing every time, or to have some sort of ritual....that being said, I had a ritual that I did every day until last year...but it was always hard, however analytically, I am someone who has no problem doing the same thing every day based on what has happened, yet subjectively this thing is harder for me that accomplishing rocket science...still I do it....So if I answered a survey, they would have to have a question which states, how easy is it for you not to be your personality...and then I would answer, it is very easy to not be what I am...

It's a strange thing but one thing I can assure you of is that I have a very, very deep understanding of each sense...I know the collective symbols in each, and if you showed me a piece of art, or a song, I could analyze the artist through it and tell you which one of his functions is dominant and inferior...etc...etc...

In fact a Jungian once told me that I should be one myself, however I told him that to set up a probe by transference without understanding the consequences is deadly to ones own pathos and would never dare portend to be God - or assume the role of a psychologist.

For the record, I've been analyzed, thoroughly ravaged and told that I am an ENTJ perhaps an ENTP....

Does this make sense to you? Perhaps it does...To be honest with you, my intuition leads me to believe that I am actually one of the few people who has multiple personalities, not as a disorder, but based on the nature of the xyzw coordinate system implied by personality theory in general...you see if a person is at the base neutral point of this graph...at 0,0,0,0 they are neither extroverted or introverted, neither sensory dominant nor intuitive dominant, feeling, nor thinking...they are, whatever they chose to be based on whichever frequency of action or lack of action or thought they wish to portray...and since they are also neither extroverted nor introverted...they can chose freely how to draw energy as long as they are able to understand how.


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## Raichu (Aug 24, 2012)

I used to think I was different types, or that I changed types depending on the situation. Like, at home and with my family, or really any place I can feel comfortable, I'm very much an ESTP. At school, though, especially in high school, I was reeeaaally shy, and I thought I was an IxFx because that's how I knew everyone else saw me. Actually, when I first heard about the myers briggs types, I thought I was an INFP. >.< That was before I knew anything about the functions though, or even much about the types, because looking back, I think what I was probably seeing was the INFJ from being stressed out. It was like "Oh wow at home I'm fun and talkative but at school I'm quiet and shy and have no will of my own wow crazy I'm a special snowflake because I have two different personalities." That's not different types, though, that's just an ESTP who's shy and has no friends and knows that these kids she sits with at lunch are all jerks and will turn on her in a second if she does something they don't like so you know what better to be nice and stay quiet because it's better than sitting all alone.

I know you weren't saying you act differently because of stress or anything, and that you do it on purpose, but my point is that your behavior doesn't determine your type. Otherwise, it'd be nearly impossible to type most actors. (Or at least the good ones who actually play different characters.) It's not about what you do, it's about why you do it and how you think.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

Misinterpretation of neuroplasticity...


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## DMack (Aug 16, 2011)

stevenjore said:


> I believe that I was born extremely introverted, almost schizoid, but through the use of certain practices have become whatever I wish to be...
> 
> For example, I used to find it impossible to be an extroverted feeling but now I can practice it with ease...same with all the functions...it all comes down to sensory functions...that is the note of transmutation...if I can empty my mind, then I can fill it with whatever I wish...
> 
> ...


Dr DMack has you labled as a ENxP, most likely a ENTP. ENTPs have hightened Ne, which allows them to see from many points of view, often thinking that their own is shifting becuase of it.

Your post is very chaotic, with strung out sentances. You seem to enjoy throwing words out like Energetics, amorphous and nebulous. Both for the joy of using them and to be precise in your statements. These are all very symptomatic of an ENTP.

ENTPs are also the only type that I am familiar with that can Extrovert in their heads without socializing. I can't do this for long periods of time, but for 1-2 weeks I can go on exploring a thought and pushing out in theory when I'm not truely doing so socially.

Also any type can access and exercize any of the 8 cognitive functions. You just have to work on it. I've put a lot of effort into developing my Se, since it can behave much like my beloved Ne and because it's a directive function (which my Ne is not). This allows me to be more assertive and take charge in situations.

Since there really isn't the science to explain congnitive functions yet we make assumptions. Although I'll operate Se, or Fi which have been hard to get to honestly, I do it because Ne or Ti dictates it as a good path. It's like the ENTP part of me never leaves the master controls even if I'm wandering off in Se or Fi land.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

asmit127 said:


> Calling someone a newbie can be seen as offensive even though it obviously shouldn't be, it's just a fact. The same could be said about calling someone black but there's laws against that kind of thing which make no sense either...
> 
> I fail to see the possibility for a guilt trip in my post but would say that guilt trips (with or without a stick) are far worse than soap on a rope - I would use the soap to beat the tripper because the weapon could be dissolved making it hard to prove.


Yes, well, I was being playful I suppose. I like where you went with it, very slick improvisational skills.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

DMack said:


> Dr DMack has you labled as a ENxP, most likely a ENTP. ENTPs have hightened Ne, which allows them to see from many points of view, often thinking that their own is shifting becuase of it.
> 
> Your post is very chaotic, with strung out sentances. You seem to enjoy throwing words out like Energetics, amorphous and nebulous. Both for the joy of using them and to be precise in your statements. These are all very symptomatic of an ENTP.
> 
> ...


This exactly. Was thinking the OP was an ENTP based off how he came off as. What I find common with all ENTPs is that they give off a vibe that's hard to put into words. When you present an idea, it's like you're off to create this magic invention but whether it has practical bearing or not is actually less relevant to you. I have to say that this strangely enough frustrates me. I don't see the purpose of coming up with great ideas but not to make them practical. It's exactly what you get when Ti auxiliary is especially a little on the weak side. More focus on the idea and less focus on thinking it through. 

You also give off a different vibe compared to ENFPs. ENFPs are warmer than ENTPs are. It's hard to explain.


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

LeaT said:


> You also give off a different vibe compared to ENFPs. ENFPs are warmer than ENTPs are. It's hard to explain.


Not necessarily. ENFPs are not always warm individuals.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

FacelessBeauty said:


> Not necessarily. ENFPs are not always warm individuals.


I know that. I am just explaining the vibe >.<


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

LeaT said:


> I know that. I am just explaining the vibe >.<


Sorry. I'm just in a nitpicky mood. xD


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## Cosmicsense (Dec 7, 2011)

The system works decently for the "norm". People who sufficiently deviate from this supposed "norm" may not fit into the theory well. It is, after all, just a theory. I was debating some of this with another member here not too long ago. 

I took a ton of LSD as a teenager. Whatever track you were on before taking loads of psychotrophics...it's simply non-existent afterwards. You're developing differently. 

When I was 23 I was in a car accident. I was drunk, flipped the truck several times over, bashed through the top half of a brick wall, and somehow landed back in the street upside down. Jaws of life got me out, and I was seemingly unscratched, yet never the same afterwards. 

The next year my brother got in a car wreck. He wasn't as fortunate, and passed. The circumstances surrounding the event were devastating. . . he likely would have survived had the kids called emergency services immediately...I'll just leave it at that. PTSD set in for the immediate family. I had to, once again, retrain my mind to work effectively. There were nights where I could hear/feel severing in neural networks. A huge bang, a quick seizure, and then feeling as if not one's self. 

Each of these events caused me to regress, then progress on a different path. I've been many different people so far in these three decades. There are people who have known me for years that say every experience is different. I can be pretty much any of the characteristics why stereotype the cognitive functions. No two days are the same. 

So I think the system is seriously flawed. At the least, there are assumptions which are not evidenced. Your type is simply not static, unless you live in a freaking vacuum. We don't. We're dynamic beings, constantly changing and interacting with a wide variety of changes. We must evolve, else decay...we must continue to adapt. 

I think MBTI is as if a religion to some people. It seems bizarre, but no more so than the next religion.


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