# Got Milk?



## Ace Face (Nov 13, 2011)

I think people who drink milk are making a very uninformed choice to do so. I've never liked milk, thank you, sweet Lord. I will gladly lay out my anti-milk/anti-dairy rant now 

1. I think we are the only creatures that consistently drink another animal's milk. That in and of itself is highly disturbing to me. First of all, we're not babies. Secondly, we're not cows, lol. 


2. Traces of pus cells have been found in the milks of many distributers. Pasteurization doesn't rid your milk of the cow pus. Mmmm, delicious, right?


3. I don't want to hear anything about milk being your main calcium source. According to the fancy little chart, you're supposed to get 1000 mg of calcium a day. A glass of milk only gives you about 1/3 of what you need. There are other, more calcium enriched alternatives if your calcium intake is your concern. Some of these alternatives include spinach, greens, broccoli, kale, sesame seeds, kelp, and others. 


4. Dairy and milk is very hard on your digestive system. Dairy is higly acidic, and forms mucus in your intestines which will plug your ass up. This just keeps getting more delicious, huh?  It is also estimated that 75% of people have difficulty properly digesting milk and dairy products. Oh, and let's not forget what else it's doing to our bodies. "Research shows that higher intakes of both calcium and dairy products may increase a man’s risk of prostate cancer by 30 to 50 percent. Plus, dairy consumption increases the body’s level of insulin-like growth factor-1 (IGF-1) — a known cancer promoter." 


5. Milk consumption isn't strengthening your bones. "American women get an average of two pounds of milk per day for their entire lives, including milk, ice cream, cream, yogurt, butter, etc. yet 30 million American women have osteoporosis." Bone loss is mainly caused by too much sugar and protein intake, and isn't prevented by drinking your daily glass of cow juice. Ball-buster! "Countries with lowest rates of dairy and calcium consumption (like those in Africa and Asia) have the lowest rates of osteoporosis." So not only will it not help your bones, it _could_ be making them worse just like the overconsumption of sugars and protein can. 


6. If you're looking to get your daily dose of vitamin D, there are many other ways you can go about it. Cod liver oil, salmon, tuna, orange juice, sunlight... the list goes on. 





Feel free to discuss any of the material presented


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## reletative (Dec 17, 2010)

Milk tastes disgusting and smells even worse.


I do like cheese though.


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## reletative (Dec 17, 2010)

Oo oo also......on the subject of osteoporosis. drinking soda degrades your bones. americans drink ridiculous amounts of carbonated beverages

Don't want brittle bones? Don't drink soda.


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## Mammon (Jul 12, 2012)

I love milk! And I always hated soda! It's so disgusting and dead...
I love coffee with lots of milk, I love milk on its own, I like cheese, I like chocomilk, I love warm milk with oat flakes and sugar!!!

I'm addicted to milk. If I dont have milk I get very nervous, no wait, that was coffee

COWZ DA BEST


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## Vivid Melody (Apr 25, 2011)

According to some sources, dairy actually leeches calcium from your bones - Debunking the Milk Myth: Why Milk is Bad for You and Your Bones | Save Our Bones

I think cultured dairy like kefir and yogurt are different though due to the beneficial bacteria (in moderation of course) though I personally still have a hard time digesting those but that is just me. Others may find those things beneficial. Some women have even reported significantly less painful menstrual cramps after giving up dairy. I know this had been true for me at least. Mine were horrible before and practically non existent now.


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## Snakecharmer (Oct 26, 2010)

I don't drink milk. I use unsweetened almond milk in my smoothies and coffee.


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## Tad Cooper (Apr 10, 2010)

I want to go vegan in the future, but can't at the moment (health issues and money worries) so I'm drinking milk. I only have it on cereal though (by itself it's okay, but I prefer other things).


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## Staffan (Nov 15, 2011)

It's hard to find any sciencey sources on the web about it. I personally drink lots of milk and my doctor said she had never encountered a healthier person. I hardly ever get sick and I can easily exercise at least 5-6 days a week. I tried to go vegan but I get ill if I don't drink milk or yogurt or similar, even though I substitute the protein and calcium with other food. From what I've read, prostrate cancer is only linked to milk consumption in northern countries so it may be related to how much UV radiation you are exposed to. 

Maybe you're just lactose intolerant ; )


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## Alaya (Nov 11, 2009)

I'm not going to lie, I love milk. If all those facts about milk are true, well, so be it. I'd still drink it.


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## MsBossyPants (Oct 5, 2011)

Before I went vegan over a year ago, I was only eating meat a few times a week, but did eat dairy products. So, the biggest change for me was dropping dairy. Within a few weeks of quitting dairy, I felt better overall, eliminated my sinus (and sorry to be gross ... phlegm issues), stopped having acid reflux, lost the bloat in my abdomen, and lost those 10 pounds I couldn't seem to lose.

If you would have told me a few years ago that dairy was bad for you, I would have rolled my eyes at that (like most of you are probably doing now, but ...)

So you don't assume I'm promoting veganism here (I'm not, eat what you will) ... I have several friends who are meat-eaters who have given up dairy. Dropping dairy was the only change they made in their diets. All have reported feeling better and losing weight. I realize that the evidence I've cited here is anecdotal, but if you do some research, you'll find similar information. 

As @Ace Face pointed out :



> ...we are the only creatures that consistently drink another animal's milk. That in and of itself is highly disturbing to me. First of all, we're not babies. Secondly, we're not cows, lol.


cow's milk is good for you ... if you're a calf. It really doesn't make sense for humans to consume it. You can get your calcium elsewhere and vitamin D doesn't occur naturally in milk. It's added. There is no real benefit to drinking milk or consuming products made from milk.



Note: I don't wish to debate the merits of veganism here, or derail Ace Face's thread. I merely mentioned my vegan (plant based/whole food) diet as a point of reference.


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## jessaywhat (Sep 10, 2011)

i hate milk, it's totally overrated and it never felt like an appetizing thing to drink. i've been fine without it. the only thing that pisses me off is that milk is in so many things! i'm lactose intolerant with very bad digestive problems aside from that so it keeps coming back to haunt me. and it's in most chocolate. why!


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## Siggy (May 25, 2009)

Got milk?

Nope, 

switched to coconut "milk" for my coffee and other things. Considering what the diary cows may be eating, like GMO soy, corn and other feed. I wouldnt touch the stuff.


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## nádej (Feb 27, 2011)

I was going to be all up-in-arms about this (which I read as I ate my cereal with milk), but then I remembered I haven't bought dairy milk in years.

And the milk that was on my cereal is almond milk. And the only milk in my fridge is almond milk and soy milk. I forget sometimes that dairy milk exists, I guess, because I haven't had it in so long.

I do still have a container of feta cheese in my fridge, and a couple Greek yogurts, but other than that I really don't eat dairy. And because my dairy intake is so small, whenever I do eat it (such as having an ice cream cone), I feel so sick.

...not that I don't still do it sometimes, because I do. I love ice cream no matter how sick it makes me feel.


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## ilphithra (Jun 22, 2010)

If I don't drink milk, I get sick, end of the story. I can easily go through 1l or more of it a day. 
All those bad effects listed? I'm yet to have any. Oh, wait... I do have them... *if I DON'T* *drink milk* and if I eat shit like pizzas or burguers, aka, shit food imported from places I'm not mentioning.

I'm from Portugal, by default I eat Mediterranean food (therefore, heavy on milk/diary) since birth and when I eat stuff from other countries, I get literally sick. Exception to this are some Japanese and Chinese dishes. 

I'm tired of one side saying "yay milk", the other says "ew, milk". Screw that shit and let people make their own choices, end of. 
I'm not going to stop drinking milk no matter what crap the "ew milk" side throws at me and they won't start drinking it no matter what the "yay milk" side says. What's the point of this, then?


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## Staffan (Nov 15, 2011)

ilphithra said:


> If I don't drink milk, I get sick, end of the story. I can easily go through 1l or more of it a day.
> All those bad effects listed? I'm yet to have any. Oh, wait... I do have them... *if I DON'T* *drink milk* and if I eat shit like pizzas or burguers, aka, shit food imported from places I'm not mentioning.
> 
> I'm from Portugal, by default I eat Mediterranean food (therefore, heavy on milk/diary) since birth and when I eat stuff from other countries, I get literally sick. Exception to this are some Japanese and Chinese dishes.
> ...


This is interesting. I also drink around a liter a day (even more as a child) and get sick if I don't. I've been wondering if it could be a genetic trait, or if milk is epigenetic and thus changing the gene expression of those consuming a lot of it.


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## Vivid Melody (Apr 25, 2011)

Type Bs are generally able to handle dairy better than the rest of the blood types. It's just more beneficial for certain people. So y'all are right - nothing is one size fits all.

Yes, I think it is a genetic thing. You have to do what is right for your own body.


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## Stelmaria (Sep 30, 2011)

While we're putting opinions out there, I suspect that the dramatic increase in size of westerners (both horizontally and vertically) has been primarily due to a substantial increase in dairy consumption over the last 100-150 years.


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## ilphithra (Jun 22, 2010)

Snow Leopard said:


> While we're putting opinions out there, I suspect that the dramatic increase in size of westerners (both horizontally and vertically) has been primarily due to a substantial increase in dairy consumption over the last 100-150 years.


No, that has to do with shifts in diet that have nothing to do with dairy. Think of what people ate 100 years ago and the crap people eat now. This is documented and proven. 
Back in the day, people had to poke the fat layer from the milk with a knife to be able to pour it and still, people were slim because:

- A lot more heavy work. Nowadays you sit your ass on a cubicle all day and then go home and become a couch potato. Everything is automated or partially automated.
- Differences in food. Back in the day, no weird fats, no McD's, no 10 liters of soda a day, etc, etc.

This is what makes people fat, not dairy. 

Come to Europe (other than UK, they're the fattest nation in Europe and no, I'm NOT making an attack, check the news.) and see the proportion of fat vs slim, especially in southern Europe... and funny, we eat dairy like hell around these parts. Though, with all the imports of crap (fast/plastic) food, that is slowly changing but the awareness campaigns are already out there.

People are getting heavier because of *bad eating habits,* not because of dairy.


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## Maron (Jul 12, 2010)

Hate Milk all you want, that doesn't make it wrong for people to drink it. If you don't want to consume dairy products, don't. No one is forcing you to do so.
Personally, I drink milk and consume dairy products because I like them. I tried some non-milk products before and sorry, they don't come close in taste for me. When I have digestive problems I tend to eat Yogurt because it helps me get over it. While I don't get sick when I don't drink milk, I enjoy it too much to even consider not having them.

Nowadays there is enough choice for everyone so people can eat/drink what they like. If you don't like the selection of non-milk alternatives in the supermarket, I'm sure there are stores that have a wide variety. 
I understand that there are enough people with lactosis intolerance that don't have a choice but to avoid dairy products but other than that, let people decide what they like better.

As Ilphithra said, the increase of weight among people has mostly to do with the amount of bad food people devour these days. You could avoid dairy products for a year and wouldn't lose a single pound if McD's is on your Menu 4x a week (without cheese of course.....)


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## Gray Skies (Dec 27, 2010)

I'll have a glass of milk occasionally, especially if I am eating something chocolate. Without something sweet though, milk just tastes kind of weird. As for weight gain, I have serious doubts that dairy products by themselves have much of an impact. If they do, it is marginal compared to more serious problems of:


Enormous portion sizes.
Wide availability of cheap, low nutrition-value, calorie dense foods.
Highly sedentary lifestyle in western cultures.

Anyway, here's an article about how early Europeans could not digest milk. Some of you may find it interesting: BBC NEWS | Health | Early man 'couldn't stomach milk'


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## Fleetfoot (May 9, 2011)

Khys said:


> Oo oo also......on the subject of osteoporosis. drinking soda degrades your bones. americans drink ridiculous amounts of carbonated beverages
> 
> Don't want brittle bones? Don't drink soda.



Blegh...pop is gross. I mean soda. Soda is gross. 

I don't know how I feel about milk. I'd much rather go and grab the soy milk instead, because it seems healthier and it expires much later, so I can keep it a lot longer especially when I travel out of town and don't have to waste so much food. But, I fear that with traveling, I do crave foods such as ice cream and cheese (not together, of course) and may not have the enzymes to digest dairy at some point if I stop eating it completely for a long period of time. 

Then again, I may be totally misinformed of this fact. Feel free to correct me.


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## ilphithra (Jun 22, 2010)

Tawanda said:


> Blegh...pop is gross. I mean soda. Soda is gross.
> 
> I don't know how I feel about milk. I'd much rather go and grab the soy milk instead, because it seems healthier and it expires much later, so I can keep it a lot longer especially when I travel out of town and don't have to waste so much food. But, I fear that with traveling, I do crave foods such as ice cream and cheese (not together, of course) and may not have the enzymes to digest dairy at some point if I stop eating it completely for a long period of time.
> 
> Then again, I may be totally misinformed of this fact. Feel free to correct me.


It has been proven that stopping the consumption of such products may induce intolerance to them.


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## Stelmaria (Sep 30, 2011)

ilphithra said:


> It has been proven that stopping the consumption of such products may induce intolerance to them.


Do you have any links to studies/reviews on this? I am curious to see how this is mediated.

I could only find older studies, eg the following which did not find a drop in lactase activity after a 42 day diet eliminating lactose.
Effect of a nonlactose diet on human intestinal... [Am J Dig Dis. 1968] - PubMed - NCBI


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## nordlund63 (Jul 24, 2012)

I go through a gallon of whole milk every two days. 

Can't stop me now.


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## dagnytaggart (Jun 6, 2010)

I can't digest milk for some reason, and I've always hated the taste and smell of any dairy products, even as a kid. Not easy growing up in a Punjabi household, lol.

I don't even crave cheese, ice cream or anything like that. I don't think I ever did...


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## Minerva1 (Dec 22, 2011)

Raw milk ees tasty. Dat cream on top, oooh yeah. I also like almond, rice, coconut and hemp milk.

I'm not sure what my opinion is on it health-wise. I've read opposing information but I like the taste, so continue to drink it I shall.


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## CoopV (Nov 6, 2011)

I feel like crap if I don't drink milk.. Maybe it's the tryptophan or something but milk is really comforting to me. Plus I love the creamy taste ever since I was little. 

Some people don't like it, some people can't tolerate it, but since I could remember I've loved it and tolerated it well. So I just keep drinking it. As for the blood and pus stuff there's contaminants in ALL food. Canned tuna has BPA, juice has arsenic, everything has something so I don't really care. 

And even though it's the milk of another mammal humans have been drinking it and eating dairy products for a longgg time so if it were that bad I think people would've cut it out as opposed to having it as a staple of so many diets.


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

I am not a fan of milk because I don't like the taste. I don't, however, think that dropping dairy is beneficial for everyone. It works for some, and it doesn't work so well for others. As for drinking another mammal's milk, I am not concerned with that (and yes, I am familiar with vegan arguments from ethics) so that has never been a deterrent. 

I use milk substitutes (almond and rice milk being my favourites) for adding some variety. I would like to research small organic dairy farms in my area. Hopefully, they are accessible as I'd prefer to buy my milk from these places rather than "supermarkets".

P.S. This report rates various Organic Dairy Farms in the US:
http://cornucopia.org/dairysurvey/index.html


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## Powder monkey (Jun 1, 2012)

I've never had a problem with milk. No issue digesting it. I used to drink insane amounts when I was a kid. 

Almond milk, however. Someone once thought that they could put it in my coffee, and it was awful. Ruined a perfectly good cup of coffee. Broke my heart. I will never drink almond milk again for this reason.


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## INTJellectual (Oct 22, 2011)

I don't drink milk. I should but I have lactose intolerance, and whenever I drink milk or eat food that has some milk in it, I would always go to the bathroom afterwards.


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## android654 (Jan 19, 2010)

Dairy in any form was never intended for our digestive tract.


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## Emerson (Mar 13, 2011)

I drink milk because I enjoy suckling on cow nipples.


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## killerB (Jan 14, 2010)

I have milk allergies(and lactose intolerant besides) and will get horribly ill if I drink dairy milk. I do better on yogurt, cheese and for some odd reason frozen custard......but I still get all the stomach issues plus eczema, hives or acne if I eat more than a little bit. I still have it sometimes, I just have to make sure I don't get other dairy sources if I don't want to be stuck in bed feeling like my insides are being ripped out. When my kids came along, I got one with the allergy, which she has outgrown, and the other two had lactose intolerance but NOT the allergy. One outgrew it and the other(the one who loves cheese and creamy sauces of course!)still suffers. We drink soy milk, and I make sure they all get low lactose dairy.(yogurt, cheese and Kefir). 

There actually IS a genetic component to being able to drink milk. There are some Europeans that can completely digest milk products, for life with no problems. Northern Europeans if I remember correctly(I am trying to remember what I read) but others cultures actually have more trouble with digesting lactose as they age. That is why many elderly get gas and stomach issues if they continue to drink milk. 

Even though I don't feel milk is healthy for my family, if someone can drink it and they like it, then why shouldn't they have it?


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## killerB (Jan 14, 2010)

Tawanda said:


> Blegh...pop is gross. I mean soda. Soda is gross.
> 
> I don't know how I feel about milk. I'd much rather go and grab the soy milk instead, because it seems healthier and it expires much later, so I can keep it a lot longer especially when I travel out of town and don't have to waste so much food. But, I fear that with traveling, I do crave foods such as ice cream and cheese (not together, of course) and may not have the enzymes to digest dairy at some point if I stop eating it completely for a long period of time.
> 
> Then again, I may be totally misinformed of this fact. Feel free to correct me.


You must be from the Upper Midwest! That is the only place that uses Pop, instead of Soda, that I know of. People from other states outside of the Upper Midwest look at you rather strangely if you use Pop! LOL


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## ilphithra (Jun 22, 2010)

killerB said:


> There actually IS a genetic component to being able to drink milk. There are some Europeans that can completely digest milk products, for life with no problems. Northern Europeans if I remember correctly(I am trying to remember what I read) but others cultures actually have more trouble with digesting lactose as they age. That is why many elderly get gas and stomach issues if they continue to drink milk.


My SO is German and she devours full fat fresh milk and dairy like a sponge. I'm from Portugal and I devour milk/dairy as if I'm a bottomless hole.

Europeans in general have no issue with milk or dairy products _(with some exceptions)_. In fact, we also use sheep and goat milk in a lot of things, especially cheese and even drink said milk. In some cheeses we mix all 3 kinds of milk (cow, goat and sheep). Look also at France and Germany for example; for all the varieties of dairy products they have.

In Portugal, Spain and Italy we have a kind of cheese that we call "Fresh Cheese" but the most known variety is the Italian one, the Ricotta. It's simply fermented, solidified milk and isn't curated at all. That's why you get it packed with its serum otherwise it will rot very fast _(even faster than it does already)_. 

Whenever Lidl has the Spanish Fresh Cheese being sold, we buy it in droves because we're both crazy about it and each of us can go through 3 or 4 of them daily. Between the two of us, we go through around... hmm... I believe 40-50 liters of milk a month and that's without counting all the dairy products we eat.


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## Fleetfoot (May 9, 2011)

killerB said:


> You must be from the Upper Midwest! That is the only place that uses Pop, instead of Soda, that I know of. People from other states outside of the Upper Midwest look at you rather strangely if you use Pop! LOL


Western Pennsylvania...It's part of that Pittsburghese thing.


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## Svensenberg (May 13, 2012)

I've always found the "we're the only mammal that routinely drinks milk" argument a little ridiculous. Isn't this mostly because we are intelligent and have opposable thumbs, not because we're gluttonous, destructive monsters? What other mammal would even be _capable_ of harvesting milk from other species, outside of the primate family? If you could teach a pack of wolves animal husbandry, I bet they would be all for it.

Everything is going to cause damage to you eventually. If you enjoy dairy products, consume them in moderation. I would rather live to be 50 eating the foods that I like than live to be 100 by forcing myself to eat nothing but "healthy" foods.


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## quadrivium (Nov 6, 2011)

I've decided to give up dairy not for ethical reasons, but I just feel better when I'm not eating dairy. Giving up butter and milk was easy, but cheese was hard. I don't even really like cheese. Luckily chocolate was easily substituted with semi-sweet morsels.


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## android654 (Jan 19, 2010)

Svensenberg said:


> I've always found the "we're the only mammal that routinely drinks milk" argument a little ridiculous. Isn't this mostly because we are intelligent and have opposable thumbs, not because we're gluttonous, destructive monsters? What other mammal would even be _capable_ of harvesting milk from other species, outside of the primate family? If you could teach a pack of wolves animal husbandry, I bet they would be all for it.
> 
> Everything is going to cause damage to you eventually. If you enjoy dairy products, consume them in moderation. I would rather live to be 50 eating the foods that I like, rather than live to be 100 eating nothing but "healthy" foods.


I think it's an affect of gluttony. We didn't even harvest milk until about 9000 years ago. The fact that we still have paleolithic blueprints in our DNA proves that our bodies change slowly. The last adaptation that we made to our diet that sunk in properly was the capture of large game. If you look at the science of it, we're only really designed to eat, digest and properly allocate nutrients from meat, vegetables, fruits, nuts and berries. Everything else consumed by humans we either intended for large herbivores like Horses, smaller omnivores like chimps, or was never intended to be consumed by anyone like corn.


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## Svensenberg (May 13, 2012)

android654 said:


> I think it's an affect of gluttony. We didn't even harvest milk until about 9000 years ago. The fact that we still have paleolithic blueprints in our DNA proves that our bodies change slowly. The last adaptation that we made to our diet that sunk in properly was the capture of large game. If you look at the science of it, we're only really designed to eat, digest and properly allocate nutrients from meat, vegetables, fruits, nuts and berries. Everything else consumed by humans we either intended for large herbivores like Horses, smaller omnivores like chimps, or was never intended to be consumed by anyone like corn.


By 'never intended to be consumed,' do you mean that our digestive systems aren't optimized for these types of foods? Not everyone can obtain what they need to have an optimal diet. I've heard that rice and corn aren't "meant" to be consumed by humans, but they have been staple crops in many parts of the world for thousands of years. It seems like humans have been adapting rather well.


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