# What's the most effective way to lie on this Job Corps application?



## AriesLilith (Jan 6, 2013)

Raain said:


> You didn't, it seemed to me that you were basically telling him to suck it up, get a job, give back to society, that he owes something to society and owes a fair days work to the bosses who exploit him.



All I did was to tell him that if we are not happy then it's up to each of us to find our own paths given what we have in our lives. Where did I tell him to suck it up and that he owes something to society or bosses? You seem to project or assume a lot to my posts. If I did then I wouldn't be promoting the whole attempts to change and find our own paths.




Raain said:


> and did I say they were?



That is to reeinforce my argument of us being responsible for our own paths.





Raain said:


> It takes class struggle, and I am contributing to that as best I can.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'll repeat myself. If you are not satisfied with the system (or rather a certain system where the job or career you are not satisfied with falls in), then you can try to contribute to its changes even if just a little (since changes are not always easy and not everyone can make significant changes, although certain changes takes a few small changes to take place). But if you can't, and/or if you are not satisfied with your current job/career/field, then it's up to you try to choose another path given what you have, and not waiting for someone else to make changes for you.

Sorry if this whole "don't wait for society to change things for you, try do it yourself" sounds more superficial than just complaining about the system.




Raain said:


> This is just ridiculous.
> 
> 
> Where did I say I hate society? I don't I hate societies institutions because they are not fit for purpose, there is a diffrence there, and sorry but I don't really accept your liberal beliefs of reforming a system which isn't broken, but was never intended to meet the needs of humanity in the first place. It's deliberately designed to keep the rich in power, and no I don't want to make it a more fairer system, I see the alternative and want to build a better society in the shell of the old, here and now.


And who was talking about you? I was replying to OP, you were the one who disagreed with my response towards OP's statement of hating society.

Also, what I was arguing was the whole "don't wait for society to change things for you, try do it yourself". This incorporates ideas like changing an existing system or creating new systems (which is also changing how things currently are), but then what existing system could be improved or replaced would depend on the system we are talking about. So I don't have a formed opinion about them, but if you don't believe that current systems should be improved then it's your own opinion (which I don't see why you'd say that changing one existing system is a liberal belief, since isn't changing an existing system by replacing it with alternative also a liberal belief? Again I don't disagree with change by replacement with alternatives, since the changes I've mentioned before incorporates this possibility anyways)


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## Raain (Jan 3, 2012)

AriesLilith said:


> All I did was to tell him that if we are not happy then it's up to each of us to find our own paths given what we have in our lives. Where did I tell him to suck it up and that he owes something to society or bosses? You seem to project or assume a lot to my posts. If I did then I wouldn't be promoting the whole attempts to change and find our own paths.


It was your tone I didn't like, 'well guess what, you have to do this and you have to do that, lifes not fair, lifes not easy deal with it' and then saying that he was complaining and should change society himself if it bothers him.

This is exactly the kind of language used in attempt to silence someone and put them in their place, you might as well have told him to stop being a lazy waster and to stop whining, at least that's the impression I got.



> That is to reeinforce my argument of us being responsible for our own paths.


More superficial nonsense.

I didn't say otherwise, and agreed with this.



> I'll repeat myself. If you are not satisfied with the system (or rather a certain system where the job or career you are not satisfied with falls in), then you can try to contribute to its *changes* even if just a little (since *changes* are not always easy and not everyone can make significant *changes*, although certain *changes* takes a few small *changes* to take place). But if you can't, and/or if you are not satisfied with your current job/career/field, then it's up to you try to choose another path given what you have, and not waiting for someone else to make *changes* for you.


Again more superficial nonsense, changes changes changes.

None of this is helpfull, and you totally don't understand the OP's point of view, aside from the fact this is pretty ridiculous advice of the sort:

Don't like your job? Simply change it.

Depressed, unfulfilled, unhappy? Become happy.

Poor? Become rich.



> Sorry if this whole "don't wait for society to change things for you, try do it yourself" sounds more superficial than just complaining about the system.


Superficial and reactionary.

It's not possible to live a non-capitalist lifestyle in a capitalist world, at least for the vast majority of people it isn't. Some people might be able to 'drop out' live communually, perhaps farm a piece of land together, but for the majority of people they have friends, family, dependents, careers, responsibilities, commitments, possible debts, health problems and so on which mean it's not possible or desirable to ditch everything.

Capitalism does not just exploit people as individuals, it exploits them as a group, as a class. It is a social relationship based on wage labour, and it's impossible for a single person to fundamentally change that relationship.

If an individual does want to abolish that system, then he or she can only do that as part of the exploited class organising together. That means taking a collective response and working with people in the same situation as you to fight back.

But rather than negotiate or make demands for a little bit more freedom and a little bit more control of their own lifes they should demand total control, total freedom and complete abolition of capitalism and the state.



> And who was talking about you? I was replying to OP, you were the one who disagreed with my response towards OP's statement of hating society.


Yes, and you took that at complete face value, but I don't think you understand what the OP meant by hating society or society being 'stupid'. He did do a good job highlighting something pretty ridiculous about our society, in a rather humourous manner.



> Also, what I was arguing was the whole "don't wait for society to change things for you, try do it yourself".


You've already said this.



> Which I don't see why you'd say that changing one existing system is a liberal belief, since isn't changing an existing system by replacing it with alternative also a liberal belief? Again I don't disagree with change by replacement with alternatives, since the changes I've mentioned before incorporates this possibility anyways)


No, it's a radical philosophy not a liberal one.

Liberalism is reformist and doesn't seek the abolition of capitalism, only to make it better and make changes which might make things better for some, but these are changes which can be taken back again by successive governments.

My philosophy Anarchist-communism is only reformist in a semantic sense that it seeks to replace one way of organising society with another way - a reform. However, it is not reformist in that it seeks to reform capitalism, because it seeks to totally abolish it.


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## Gentleman (Jun 14, 2014)




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## AriesLilith (Jan 6, 2013)

Raain said:


> It was your tone I didn't like, 'well guess what, you have to do this and you have to do that, lifes not fair, lifes not easy deal with it' and then saying that he was complaining and should change society himself if it bothers him.
> 
> This is exactly the kind of language used in attempt to silence someone and put them in their place, you might as well have told him to stop being a lazy waster and to stop whining, at least that's the impression I got.


I didn't tell him to change the entire society if it bothers him, I disagreed with his point and stated my own. You are dramatizing my tone (no one told him to shut up or stop whining) or way of expressing it, when I replied "well guess what, you arepart of the society you hate" to OP's "I hate society".



Raain said:


> More superficial nonsense.
> 
> I didn't say otherwise, and agreed with this.


What was your point of "and did I say they were?"?



Raain said:


> Again more superficial nonsense, changes changes changes.
> 
> None of this is helpfull, and you totally don't understand the OP's point of view, aside from the fact this is pretty ridiculous advice of the sort:
> 
> ...


Is disagreeing with the OP's point of view is not understanding it? Ok then.

Also, this sounds like an over simplification of my arguments/logic so that it reflects how you are over dramaizing my tone. 



Raain said:


> Superficial and reactionary.
> 
> It's not possible to live a non-capitalist lifestyle in a capitalist world, at least for the vast majority of people it isn't. Some people might be able to 'drop out' live communually, perhaps farm a piece of land together, but for the majority of people they have friends, family, dependents, careers, responsibilities, commitments, possible debts, health problems and so on which mean it's not possible or desirable to ditch everything.
> 
> ...


Of course things are not easy and the system is flawed, and of course it is nearly impossible, if not impossible, for one individual to change the whole system. But as I said before, big or small changes are only possible if there are people who try to put efforts into it, and whether they do it alone or collectively. Not sure how our arguments are contradicting here, since you also talk about changes?



Raain said:


> Yes, and you took that at complete face value, but I don't think you understand what the OP meant by hating society or society being 'stupid'. He did do a good job highlighting something pretty ridiculous about our society, in a rather humourous manner.


Again, not agreeing does not necessarily mean not understanding. And what you might find humorous, other people might find cliche and boring.



Raain said:


> No, it's a radical philosophy not a liberal one.
> 
> Liberalism is reformist and doesn't seek the abolition of capitalism, only to make it better and make changes which might make things better for some, but these are changes which can be taken back again by successive governments.
> 
> My philosophy Anarchist-communism is only reformist in a semantic sense that it seeks to replace one way of organising society with another way - a reform. However, it is not reformist in that it seeks to reform capitalism, because it seeks to totally abolish it.


Thanks for the political explanation, but I mentioned changes in a general manner (which can be either changes/improvement of a current system or replacement of an entire system), so you can point out a list of changes you have in mind as ideal and yet I don't see how we are contradicting here, since in both changing an existing system or replacing it, people would need to take action and do things anyways, and taking action instead of waiting others to (if possible and even the smallest change) was my point.


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## Raain (Jan 3, 2012)

@_AriesLilith_

Am I dramatizing your tone? Possibily, but I definitely picked up on a conservative tone, not that I think that makes you a bad person or something, but it's bullshit and was worth pointing out.

Considering you never seemed to get the humour in the OP's post which was part joking part looking for help, I don't think you do understand where the OP is comming from and I don't think you see how ridiculous the whole thing is (even more so how most people responded to it). Yes I don't agree with the misanthropy either, but I can go a bit further to see how he hates certain things about society and sees some things as being stupid and probably isn't a misanthropist.



> What was your point of 'and did I say they were?'?


I would have thought that pretty obvious, that it shouldn't require explanation, but you made an irrelevant point to which I never said anything otherwise, and never disagreed with.

Anyway I haven't got the patience to continue this any longer especially when you keep backpedaling and bringing up the same points I already answered.

"Yes this, and yes that, of course change isn't easy, but - change"

:dry:


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## Gentleman (Jun 14, 2014)

Just wanted to give you guys an update. I'm not going through with it. If it ever comes down to it, I choose homelessness. I can't bring myself to sell my soul for money.


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## intjonn (Apr 20, 2013)

The best way 4 U 2 lie on the app is the same way most Job Corps employees do it: 
Place said application on your bed, couch, floor, etc some nice comfortable spot for you to lie on it;

Then fuking lie on it - sleep well while the rest of Humanity passes you by.


*<<<<===========take it frum a koon!*


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