# Do You Have an Anti-Type?



## Spades (Aug 31, 2011)

First off, this is just an idea I had and not an official theory.

Do you have a type that:

a) You really don't see its core fear in yourself.
b) You feel you really aren't driven by its core motivations.
c) You have almost nothing in common with the descriptions.
d) You actively go against its ideals?
e) Any combination of the above or similar?


For me, that type is Type 2. I can relate a little bit (or a lot) to every other type in the enneagram, and most of them appear in my tritype. However, I find myself actively seeking not to have anyone rely on me or need my help. It's not a rational thing, but purely a gut reaction. I feel anxious when I'm "too connected" and I feel a negative gut response to someone asking me to help them if I haven't personally decided to. At my worst, I can be neglectful and non-responsive. I am most helpful when I can see a person's inner will and strength shine.


*What's your "anti-type"? Why?*


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## Halcyon (Jun 21, 2013)

That'd be type 3. I'm the furthest thing from 3. Hurry up integration! Damn it.


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## Coburn (Sep 3, 2010)

Four. But most of my strong "anti-type" feelings stem from a bad relationship with an unhealthy four. I'm practically allergic to them now.


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## Dewymorning (Nov 24, 2012)

I think for me it is 7.


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## marsec (Nov 6, 2012)

I think given the right company or belief-set I can easily find myself in any of the descriptions; no one type stands out as my anti-type. It is very difficult for me to _not_ see the value in any particular motivation though I have no problem critiquing a flawed approach. If I _really_ wanted to, I'm certain I could talk myself into believing I was any type and find as much evidence as I wanted to to support the case.

I'd be interested to know if other 693 tritypes feel the same way or its just me. Maybe it has nothing to do with enneatype? Either way, I don't believe I can pick an anti-type without finding a reason to support why it isn't my anti-type (ugh, lmao). Really interesting exercise though.


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## rajAs (Sep 14, 2012)

Good point OP!

Probably 6: "fear" doesn't mean that much to me, probably just anxiety but it's a common theme between the head triad once I compulse there. Law and order are completely out of my focus. I can't fit with any description of phobic, counterphobic neither "prussian" 6. I couldn't say it's an "anti-type", by the way. It's possible that simply I can't see in myself anything 6ish because I can't or don't want to.

But as @marsec said, I could fit with a few descriptions of other types. We 369 are quite chameleonic and if we have traveled for a good part of our lives "outside ourselves", here we are: A 9 could have tried to understand others' point of views to avoid conflicts, a 6 to avoid abuse/injustice, a 3 to take advantage of the situations. Everything at the cost of our own understanding.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Type 3. I don't get type 3 at all and I don't tend to get along well with type 3s either.


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## notmonday (Jun 7, 2013)

Type 1. It makes no sense to me at all.


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## Juan M (Mar 11, 2011)

7, bad relations with those trought my life... in family and love. But well 7s friends can be fun, except if hits depression, i believe that, that shit really hits them hard, more than to any other type.


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## Monkey King (Nov 16, 2010)

I'm with you on type 2. Nope can't see it at all. Maybe it's because I'm deterred by dependent/clingy/too nice personalities. All these qualities come off passive aggressive and can become a form of emotional manipulation which I've never been a fan of. Elements that seem to be a common theme in this type's life.


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## zinnia (Jul 22, 2013)

marsec said:


> I think given the right company or belief-set I can easily find myself in any of the descriptions; no one type stands out as my anti-type. It is very difficult for me to _not_ see the value in any particular motivation though I have no problem critiquing a flawed approach. If I _really_ wanted to, I'm certain I could talk myself into believing I was any type and find as much evidence as I wanted to to support the case.
> 
> I'd be interested to know if other 693 tritypes feel the same way or its just me. Maybe it has nothing to do with enneatype? Either way, I don't believe I can pick an anti-type without finding a reason to support why it isn't my anti-type (ugh, lmao). Really interesting exercise though.


Hehe, I feel this way quite often. I think I am more 613 though. I can appreciate most of the core motivations and can see myself as most of them if I think enough about it. 

I guess that type closest to my "anti-type" is a 3 but that is based on very superficial observations, as well as some individuals who were, in some ways, slaves to their compulsion. I once had someone tell me "life isn't about being competent, it is about looking like you're competent" and I got bothered by that. I would like my actions and actual abilities be evident, instead of manipulating others by manner of speaking. However, I find myself doing the same thing _in moderation_ (you have to do that to some extent to be successful in most endeavors.)


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## Purrfessor (Jul 30, 2013)

I'm a type two and the one type that I just don't get is the type seven. They seem to be driven by the fear of pain so they seek pleasure. I, on the other hand, am not afraid of pain and I think I actually seek pain in a weird way. Also, type eights tend to piss me off. Twos under stress can lean toward type eight traits which is why I avoid stress - it goes against my peaceful inhibitions.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Spades said:


> First off, this is just an idea I had and not an official theory.
> Do you have a type that:
> a) You really don't see its core fear in yourself.


2, 9




> b) You feel you really aren't driven by its core motivations.


2, 5



> c) You have almost nothing in common with the descriptions.


2



> d) You actively go against its ideals?


2




> *What's your "anti-type"? Why?*


clearly 2 :tongue:
probably 2w1>9w1>5w4 So/So (and ESFJ)


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## MissyMaroon (Feb 24, 2010)

Hmmmm... probably 8. Although, even that I relate to a bit. An xSTP 8 sx/so.


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## Pancreatic Pandora (Aug 16, 2013)

Well, I have nothing against them but types 7 and 8's ways of dealing with things is so alien to me. It's like I do the opposite most of the time. Makes sense since they are not in my tri-type (4-6-9, maybe 5). I don't really relate to type 1's core fear either but I do relate to 1 as my integration point.


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## 0+n*1 (Sep 20, 2013)

I don't see core fears of 2 and 8 in me
I don't feel I'm driven by motivations of 2, 3 and 8
I can't see me in descriptions of 3, 7 and 8
I go against ideals of 3 principally

I am undecided if 8w7 or 3w2 are my anti-types. My anti-tritype would be a 358, probably (any 3X8 makes the cut). Its instinct would be sx/so.


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## Father of Dragons (May 7, 2012)

Spades said:


> First off, this is just an idea I had and not an official theory.
> 
> Do you have a type that:
> 
> ...


If I could be said to have an anti-type, it would be six. I can't relate to their anxiety, their obsession with the concept of trust. I am incredibly unlike them in that I am the least stressed person you will ever meet, and I don't assess people. I tend to accept first, ask questions later... basically the opposite of what sixes tend to do.

That being said, I can get along really well with people who are type six.


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## chimeric (Oct 15, 2011)

Pancreatic Pandora said:


> Well, I have nothing against them but types 7 and 8's ways of dealing with things is so alien to me. It's like I do the opposite most of the time. Makes sense since they are not in my tri-type (4-6-9, maybe 5). I don't really relate to type 1's core fear either but I do relate to 1 as my integration point.


Hey, same tritype. 8s make no sense to me either. I take on leadership positions if other people are incompetent/unwilling, but power lust is alien to me. Power over others is just a lot of responsibility and guilt, and I wouldn't feel true to myself if I had to deny my vulnerabilities.

I get 7s though. Maybe it's being an Ne-dom. Even us non-7 Ne-doms are into stimulation/exploration/skimming the surface of twelve thousand things at once.


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

> Do you have a type that:
> 
> a) You really don't see its core fear in yourself.


Type 9; Type 4

9: I place my needs, wants and priorities above else. Becoming asleep to my agendas and wants is an alien concept. 

4: I have never felt inferior or defective, in any way. I recognize areas when I can get better, but my self-worth isn't tied up with this self-perception, in any area of my life. I have no fear of abandonment. It doesn't even cross my mind, romantically or otherwise. 



> b) You feel you really aren't driven by its core motivations.


 Type 9, despite my outward calm and easy going nature, I don't relate to the core motivations of Type 9. 



> c) You have almost nothing in common with the descriptions.


Many aspects of Type 4 (read the more stereotypical traits and some core neuroses I don't relate to), 9 (seems like a re-wording of questions above) besides the calm, steady, accepting buzzwords.



> d) You actively go against its ideals?


Type 9 ; peace and apathy over convictions and taking a stand is one of my greatest pet peeves. I hate indifference. I hate it when people numb themselves to shit that can be made far better or more just. 



> e) Any combination of the above or similar?


NA


> I feel anxious when I'm "too connected" and I feel a negative gut response to someone asking me to help them if I haven't personally decided to. At my worst, I can be neglectful and non-responsive. I am most helpful when I can see a person's inner will and strength shine.


Most people don't like to be put in a position where they have to 'help' against their own volition. I am compassionate or even protective of those who deserve my kindness, such as children. In general, I am compassionate towards people who work to help themselves. I have no tolerance for anyone who guilt trips or plays victim. Such dishonesty and pansy ass tactics earn no rewards from me. 

*What's your "anti-type"? Why?*

Type 9 for the reasons the above questions cover.


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## kitsu (Feb 13, 2013)

8 and 3, I can't fathom.

8 because I'm just fundamentally non-imposing (mind you, not a quality)

And 3 because I don't understand external consensus for self-worth


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## He's a Superhero! (May 1, 2013)

Phobic 6s! Type 1s.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

Damn, this is hard.. I guess I have to say I don't have one. Maybe its because I'm a 6w7, with pretty balanced wings, and 6 is kinda the hodgepodge of types. 

1 - I have even been mistaken for a 1
2 - 6w7 can seem very 2ish particularly if female
3 - I stress to 3w4 bigtime
4 - Shit, a lot of people think I'm a core 4
5 - Or that my wing is 5
6 - Sup.
7 - two 7 wings in my tri, and a lot of the "bad" attributes of 7 (floaty attention, hedonism)
8 - part of the tri
9 - growth to 9

I gots it all baybe.

(what a mess)


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## jdbullet23 (Jan 25, 2012)

When you get a chance, go to youtube and listen to "Country Song" by Seether; this song is quite fitting for my reaction to my anti-type. :O

Type 1! Definitely.... I can see myself in this type, but only the parts of myself that I dislike the most: perfectionism, seriousness, superiority ... that sort of thing.

And for some reason, even the healthy descriptions of type 1 set my teeth on edge. This type of person and I just do not get along. They have a certain idea of "right" that they strive for, and I am vehemently opposed to moral codes. They are that person who will purposefully misunderstand my humor just to reenforce that they are above me. Also, I just can't get jiggy with the whole repression of pleasure in life thing. The few 1s I come across seem to look down their noses at me because I prefer to enjoy myself than set restriction for myself, or because I choose not to take one thing too seriously and commit myself to it at all costs. It's just one of those things that really raise my hackles, but again, I can see this tendency in myself at my most judgmental, and I despise that side of myself.

So overall, I'm sure most 1s are not as awful as a few 1s had made me assume they are, but I just can't shake the taste of bitterness when I think of the type as a whole.

Haha: "I can not shake the taste of blood in my mouth!" --'Country Song' by Seether


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## Potne Theron (Nov 10, 2013)

Hi there,

I am a social 4w5, 469 tritype like Pancreatic Pandora and Chimeric. My anti type is compulsivity, whatever the core type. In other words, unhealthy people. I get well with any healthy types. That being said...as most people dwell at the average levels, *people who try to force their will on me trigger a very strong emotionnal reaction from me, whatever their ways*. It can be any type, but more specifically, 1, 2, 3, 7 and 8. The worst of the worst are the 1. For some unknown reason, they do not like me, I trigger strong reactions to them and as a consequence, I strongly react indignantly (my own One) and it gets worse.


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## Dragheart Luard (May 13, 2013)

From the information that I've read, I think that the heart triad is the one that I grasp less, and it doesn't help that type 4 is on my stress line, so I don't like it too much, but I still understand it a bit more than types 2 and 3.


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## King Nothing (Sep 8, 2013)

I get along poorly with type 3s. I'm usually the person one of them takes a verbal shit on when they want to look good. Then that same person will go to me and fish for compliments. That just gives me an excuse to be a prick.


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## UsernametakenAgain (Nov 7, 2013)

My anti-types are 1 and 2 I think, for 1s are way too perfectionist and orderly from what I've seen of them (I don't get very neurotic when things don't go according to plan either), and 2s are way too selfless and way too munificent with their emotions, this doesn't mean I don't like them, it just means they go against my core personality. To illustrate how unlike a two I am, I scored exactly 4 points on type 2 (last placement) compared to my much stronger type 5 and type 8 scores shown below.


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## Destiny Lund (Sep 2, 2011)

Either 4w3 or 1w2. My main type in my tri-type is 2w1 & 1w2 just seems like it would be a Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde thing going on. 
1w2 is just described to be so judgy & tense, which is not like me at all. I have strict morals, but it's other people's choices if they want to live their lives as I do or not, the only person I can direct is me. I'm also not very practical with most things when Type 1 seems to be very practical with most things. Ones seem okay with repetitive tasks or even *gulp* LIKE such a thing. 4w3's seem to be quite a bit more dramatic than I can handle. While I am usually a bit more led by emotions, 4w3's seem perfectly okay with letting emotions completely control them & actually prefer to keep letting it out this way instead of immediately striving to drive themselves toward peace like I do. 4w3's according to descriptions seem to really thrive on other people seeing them as unique when I'm not one to care what other people think about me & I don't ever really think about being different, I just BE. 4's also tend to look toward the past & I'm almost always focused on the present. I'm also not competitive & I don't like attention. So, depending on my mood or depending on the angles you're looking at, I'd say by anti-type could either be 4w3 or 1w2.


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## The Exception (Oct 26, 2010)

8w7 / 2w3 / 7w8 sx/so/sp


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## Spades (Aug 31, 2011)

Hmm, if we're talking full tritype, my total anti-type would be something like:

2w1 9w1 6w7 So/Sp

Oddly, I relate more to 6w5 than 6w7.


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

Spades said:


> Hmm, if we're talking full tritype, my total anti-type would be something like:
> 
> 2w1 9w1 6w7 So/Sp
> 
> Oddly, I relate more to 6w5 than 6w7.


Same here. Outwardly, I have some traits in common with 6w5 -- withdrawing to strategize, being a private person, intolerance of bullshit, very independent minded (not really all that consultative at all), good contingency planning professionally and in SP matters, rational skepticism though I consider that an intelligence thing for sure.
My anti tritypes would be anything with a 9, 5 or 6w7 (esp phobic) fix.


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## Donovan (Nov 3, 2009)

i keep coming back to this thread with the intention of adding something in, but each time i'm at a loss for words. i can look at this as in "what typical behavior really irks me", which would sort of answer the question in a way, but then i realize that "hey, i do all of those things, so how can it be my anti-type?"...

i can see myself in most descriptions, in most of the mechanisms that types get into--to lesser or greater degrees--which i'm sure is something significant to my own type (as 6 can appear to be the "unintentional chameleon" of the enneagram). 

so maybe instead of breaking this into individual types, i can go along the broader aspects that certain types are linked into, such as the "power triad". for 2-5-8 (?), it's not that i can't identify with them to an extent, but more so that the power-plays just seem like the last thing i'd even enter into (as far as i'm aware)... i'd rather not pay attention to those aspects in terms of progressing along them, but more so that i can monitor them and evaluate whether or not they should be allowed. the "alliances" i make are more for "mutual, emotional resiliency"--or friendship, a relationship that eases passing time in this world lol--and not so that i can play a card when it comes time to do so. it just seems so underhanded and low (of course there are healthier forms of this, and there are times when it becomes absolutely necessary; but as a way of life...?); i can usually spot it right off the bat, i don't appreciate it, and i don't understand why honesty isn't brought into the equation when there is ample room for it to exist (and by this, i'm just reiterating that at a point, everything--what i'm speaking about now, and almost anything under the sun--can be crucial to one's well being or for the people they care about; i'm not vilifying the perspective or the tool, but more in how i see it used most often). 

and again, even though this "irks" me, i know that i'm still prone to it when my back's up against the wall and it will allow for the transition with the least impact to the people that matter... but it still doesn't stop the want to unravel what i see as someone's little game; though, i doubt they'd see it that way, just as i have my own rationalizations.


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## Halcyon (Jun 21, 2013)

I'd say my full anti-type would be something like 3w2 7w8 8w7 sp/sx.


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## Quernus (Dec 8, 2011)

Well, maybe Seven, as it's the only type I don't really have a connection to in terms of wing (Except Two, but there's the whole disintegration thing, soo). My immediate reaction to most stress is to pull inwards, (over)analyse, ruminate, give up, take things personally, whatever. I'm never really one to be like, "OH WELL, THE BRIGHT SIDE THO!" and I can't easily just immerse myself into something fun or positive as a coping mechanism - I am too compelled to "process" (ruminate on) everything before I can feel okay or happy again (yeah, because that works).

But... 

*"Basic Fear:* Of being deprived and in pain
*Basic Desire:* To be satisfied and content—to have their needs
fulfilled"
I don't know, I sure do hate pain and deprivation, but I've also kind of "resigned" myself to the belief that both will forever be a constant in life (I realize this is probably flawed thinking, but just an observation). 

My way of dealing with this "constant" pain and deprivation does not generally involve overcompensating. I'm much more prone to inactively resenting it, or distancing myself from anything that might force me to be indefinitely exposed to raw pain and deprivation. I might overindulge sometimes, but this doesn't give me a sense that things are now "okay".

I used to say I related least to Three, even though Four obviously has a connection to it. However I would say 3 is not actually my "anti type", because I do relate to the fear of being worthless, and I do get a shameful by how unimpressive my life is (though not to the point I'm particularly driven to change that... possibly out of fear of failure).


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## Quernus (Dec 8, 2011)

Crossover said:


> I'd say my full anti-type would be something like 3w2 7w8 8w7 sp/sx.


Haha, same, almost. For me it's probably 7w8, 8w7, 3w4, SO/SX.


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## Halcyon (Jun 21, 2013)

spectralsparrow said:


> Haha, same, almost. For me it's probably 7w8, 8w7, 3w4, SO/SX.


I'd say some variant of 378 is what most triple withdrawns would pick as their anti-type.


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## Choice (May 19, 2012)

*wordiness as a calming tactic*



Spades said:


> First off, this is just an idea I had and not an official theory.
> 
> Do you have a type that:
> 
> ...


7w8 here
also 2.

*a)* Basic Fear: To be undeserving of love. I run counter phobic to this and numb myself to it whenever I can...given that I've cemented my image as constantly-expecting-rejection (healthy or otherwise). I do want some level of affection, but compared to the all the other types, this'll be the one I feel the least afraid of as far as awareness runs. In general, once I get my quota from a selective few, I'm good.
*b) *Basic Desire: To have unconditional love. Ignoring the validity of its existence, my personal definition of it and my focus on self preservation renders me incapable of having get-as-close-as-I-can-to-spreading-it-around as one of my primary goals. (Maybe a short run in the distant future even if unlikely?)

On the receiving side - Forgive me, I'm limited. I can only take what love I think I deserve at any particular moment. What use is something that I'll never learn to process properly?

*c) *The moments where I glorify myself for the reason of being truly morally good are rare and fleeting. I typically neglect to place high importance on others' emotional conditions unless (potential) vulnerability is thrown at me like an anvil to say _be careful around X person OR YOUR CONSCIENCE WILL EAT YOU. _ I am so afraid of being taken advantage of, or being powerless that any denial of self for others' needs will likely be short lived (unless we're fucking married).I fear attachment, I fear depending on others for approval - items labeled under shit, I'm handing over power to hurt me - better fucking limit it. 
*
unrelated)*
*The other mental blocks*
Where I've had long term friendly relations focusing on other people's needs instead of my own, the comfort stems from me being able to maintain distance via avoiding my issues entirely. It's nice to feel like a capable support structure sometimes, but I have no wish to be central, or needed in a way that destroys another's independence (or my conscience will eat me). Unless someone I really really like is going through a crisis and I'm somehow, implausibly the most effective at helping, I'd like to be a small, manageable block at all times. Socially, I guard my energy. 
*
d)* I rarely help out on my own initiative, or notice where help is needed because I actively choose to focus on myself.

"Type 2 with a 1 Wing (Superego-Superego): This wing doubles-up on superego elements, making the 2w1 very moralistic. A 2w1 can appear more "uptight" than a 2w3 in many ways, since the id seems like a foreign force to them. *They are more likely to be blindsided by their id desires because of that.*"

I wouldn't know myself as is minus the "primal desires". ID rather avoid dying in my own eyes, thanks.


2w1 6w5 9w1 Sx/so


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## shakti (Oct 10, 2012)

I think the bizarro me would be a 6w5 sp/so :-D


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## Father of Dragons (May 7, 2012)

My full anti-tri-type (?) would be the full super-ego set of types. With wings, probably 1w2-2w3-6w7. I couldn't say exactly why, it's just that I am unconcerned with how I look in the big picture. I don't place value on being objectively moral or helpful, or on being seen as any sort of "pillar" for people to rely on. 

At the heart of it all I am quite selfish, or at the very least intensely subjective. If I help someone it is to satisfy myself in some way, and I am aware of that fact. No offense to anyone or any type, but for instance, I can't understand how twos and ones choose to do things for/to you, and act like they are doing you a favour. My mother is a 2 and my older sister is a 1. Even though I am quite empathetic, I've never been able to truly relate to their drives and ways of seeing things. For better or worse.


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## SuperNova85 (Feb 21, 2011)

I'd probably say 6, 1 & 9, which is weird because I have a 9 fix and because I seem to attract and be attracted to these very types.

While I've gotten along with many 6's, the security-seeking agenda doesn't appeal to me in the least, in fact it's usually last thing on my mind. But that could be my Sx/Sp.

I've fallen the hardest for a type 1, but the fault finding has got to go :frustrating:

And while I adore 9's, I'm not a fan of the care-free and somewhat apathetic life-style. But again, could be my Sx. But as a 459 I could definitely relate to the comfort seeking and dislike of unnecessary conflict.


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## mushr00m (May 23, 2011)

Something like 8w7, 1w2, 2w1(prefer 2w3), 4w5 and 9w1 and sometimes 3w4, sometimes 5 and if there are too many other withdrawn types. It mostly depends on what the whole tritype is though. 

Too much ID, all withdrawn, nay.


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## Antiparticle (Jan 8, 2013)

I don't get 4 and 1.


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## Le9acyMuse (Mar 12, 2010)

I could see myself in any type. I'd have to base my choice of "anti-type" off of certain people that have triggered negative reactions from me according to their lifestyles. It would have to be this way, seeing as I have gotten along with every Enneatype thru some person.

2s and 1s are ones I'm most selective about being around. 1 might be closest to any semblance of an "anti-type" of my relation to the type 4, but I easily see myself in them, too. I can be very critical of others, thinking they're not doing enough to transcend certain inhibitions. Since I have a 9 gut fix I usually keep my thoughts to myself. Either way, I integrate to 1. I have to relate to them. 2s mainly want to be acknowledged by others as principled and fair. What's not to like about that, except for when we go overboard?

I have no tentative "anti-type."


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## DoubleDare (May 15, 2013)

This is a good question to consider. But I think I have a very different take on this. I'm not sure, but I'll throw out there that I believe an "anti-type" isn't really even possible, unless I'm not understanding the question.

Are there types that are more likely to piss me off? If they are unhealthy, perhaps. But that could be true of *any* unhealthy type. But is there a type that I don't relate to at all, across the boards? Nope. Not for me.

I don't know if it's just me, but I can, at times, see any and all of the "energies" of the different personality types at play in my ego identity, depending on the situation and on my stress level/fulfillment level. Particularly when I am under stress for an extended period of time, it can appear as if I'm "cycling" through the unhealthy aspects of all of the personality types with an alarming amount of rapidity as I try to find a strategy that might get me out (Maitri also references this phenomenon some, I believe).

But mostly, I don't feel like I'd have an anti-type because I recognize the all-encompassing role that fear, anger, and shame play as motivators in my life, and really, each type is dealing with one of those three motivators, albeit with a somewhat different expression in each case. Each triad has one personality that's more outwardly focused and one that's more inwardly focused, but when it comes down to it, whether they are outwardly focused or inwardly focused, they are still have enough commonality with their core that they don't seem to me to be opposed to each other - it's just different strategies employed to achieve the same goal. While I might not favor some of the strategies for myself, and I acknowledge that some of them would be a near-impossible fit for my current identity, I totally see how those strategies sprang out of the core motivation of the triad.

For example, I see Six in both Five and Seven, it's just that Fives and Sevens take a more specific approach to dealing with fear than does it's core. Same goes for the other triads.

But, I also think that it's too easy to identify with the stereotypes of the personalities, and that it's the *stereotypes* that might cause a feeling of having an anti-type, rather than the actual type itself.

For example, my thinking about Twos changed dramatically after reading Ichazo's characterization of Twos as being "Over-Independent", and after reading Naranjo's description of Twos in "Character and Neurosis". Being Over-Independent to me can look quite aggressive and perfectly encapsulates their connection to Eight. I think Twos can look a lot more like Eights than most people are willing to acknowledge, and that understanding totally changed my perception of Twos as *only* squishy, selfless, ingratiating martyrs.

As always, just what I see from over here.


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

Btw, if we interpret "anti-type" as types that piss me off , it's more along the lines of 9w1 and phobic 6 getting passive aggressive and outwardly remaining 'pleasant'. I dislike dishonesty, and I can find it annoying when someone doesn't get to the point. Pussyfooting around shit doesn't go down well with me, regardless of type.


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## Choice (May 19, 2012)

DoubleDare said:


> For example, my thinking about Twos changed dramatically after reading Ichazo's characterization of Twos as being "Over-Independent", and after reading Naranjo's description of Twos in "Character and Neurosis". Being Over-Independent to me can look quite aggressive and perfectly encapsulates their connection to Eight. I think Twos can look a lot more like Eights than most people are willing to acknowledge, and that understanding totally changed my perception of Twos as *only* squishy, selfless, ingratiating martyrs.
> 
> As always, just what I see from over here.


Oh wow, we started at different ends of the spectrum with bad stereotyping. Did you start off with Riso/Hudson (who seems to really really like 2s)?


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## Alles_Paletti (May 15, 2013)

I'd have to say that of all types, type 6 would be my anti-type the most, by far. 

I want to be as independent as possible, not find things to rely on.


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## DoubleDare (May 15, 2013)

Choice said:


> Oh wow, we started at different ends of the spectrum with bad stereotyping. Did you start off with Riso/Hudson (who seems to really really like 2s)?


I started with Riso and Hudson, as well as some of the more "pop" interpretations of the Enneagram, but I feel like I didn't get a really good sense of Two until I dug a lot deeper. I recall one source identifying Eights as the chivalrous "White Knights" of the Enneagram, which might be true in some cases, but I feel that that archetype is easily more the domain of Twos than Eights. I think the strength and power of a Two is grossly underestimated. To give some idea of my perspective, I see some very Two-like aspects to the most recent film incarnation of Batman, especially in "The Dark Knight Rises."

I would guess Batman is probably not what most people probably think of when thinking about the Two motivations, lol...

Many personality types get stereotyped by a few aspects associated with the unhealthy levels - people may sometimes forget the greater complexity at average, everyday levels.


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## Alles_Paletti (May 15, 2013)

DoubleDare said:


> I started with Riso and Hudson, as well as some of the more "pop" interpretations of the Enneagram, but I feel like I didn't get a really good sense of Two until I dug a lot deeper. I recall one source identifying Eights as the chivalrous "White Knights" of the Enneagram, which might be true in some cases, but I feel that that archetype is easily more the domain of Twos than Eights. I think the strength and power of a Two is grossly underestimated. To give some idea of my perspective, I see some very Two-like aspects to the most recent film incarnation of Batman, especially in "The Dark Knight Rises."
> 
> I would guess Batman is probably not what most people probably think of when thinking about the Two motivations, lol...
> 
> Many personality types get stereotyped by a few aspects associated with the unhealthy levels - people may sometimes forget the greater complexity at average, everyday levels.


Batman's more likely a 1w2 though. It just fits too well.

http://personalitycafe.com/type-1-forum-reformer/65601-type-one-reformer-timeless-description.html


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## DoubleDare (May 15, 2013)

Alles_Paletti said:


> Batman's more likely a 1w2 though. It just fits too well.


I wouldn't necessarily disagree with that assessment. I would say, given Batman's ambition and relentless drive and desire to be out amongst people all the time, as well as his tormented nature, that he would have a pretty strong Two-wing, though.

Mostly, I just found the idea of that particular image of Batman as a representation of Two (even as a wing) fascinating.


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## DoubleDare (May 15, 2013)

Upon further reflection, and for this particular example and conversation, Batman actually occurs as more 2w1 than 1w2. He occasionally is willing to bend the rules in order to accomplish his vision of the common good, moreso, I think, than a One might feel comfortable with. He also thinks more highly of himself and his endeavors/abilities than the average One would, I think, especially in times of duress. He's brooding and driven, but he's not particularly hard on himself. He has a lot of pride. 

Sorry, I've now taken this thread OT. I'll either start another thread or get back to the OP's topic. ;-)


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## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

Alles_Paletti said:


> I'd have to say that of all types, type 6 would be my anti-type the most, by far.
> 
> I want to be as independent as possible, not find things to rely on.


Being a Six isn't about seeking dependency, or finding things to rely on. That's extremely simplified and only applies to some 6s. A CP6 would likely cringe at that description, for example.


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## d e c a d e n t (Apr 21, 2013)

DoubleDare said:


> To give some idea of my perspective, I see some very Two-like aspects to the most recent film incarnation of Batman, especially in "The Dark Knight Rises."
> 
> I would guess Batman is probably not what most people probably think of when thinking about the Two motivations, lol...


Huh, I could sort of see it. Although I haven't seen that particular movie. How well does he fit positive outlook, though?


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## lilimarleen (Oct 17, 2013)

Type 9, maybe type 7.


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## Alles_Paletti (May 15, 2013)

kaleidoscope said:


> Being a Six isn't about seeking dependency, or finding things to rely on. That's extremely simplified and only applies to some 6s. A CP6 would likely cringe at that description, for example.


Especially with a question that can only be answered stereotypically, I like to keep my answer simple. Since we talk in terms of 'types', everything I say is necessarily wrong at some level in reaction to that.

Should I compare myself with all possible variations of a six and say which I do not identify with? Even then you can probably point out an exception I missed. 

I'm not unaware that a six is far more complex than this. This is true for any type, for that matter. 

I did not think about it very long or seriously. I picked one aspect I consider typical of the stereotypical type 6 as I know it that I do not identify with. 

I do not mean any offense.

You are so a 4 for saying this though. One of my best friends is a 4 and he hates sweeping generalizations of any kind.


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## DoubleDare (May 15, 2013)

Alles_Paletti said:


> You are so a 4 for saying this though. One of my best friends is a 4 and he hates sweeping generalizations of any kind.


Funny enough, I feel like Sixes (assuming they are operating somewhere on the average to healthy end of the spectrum) would be the personality type *most* likely to hate sweeping generalizations of any kind. Given their skeptical, questioning, doubting nature, no formal structure lasts very long for a Six. They are quick to want to disassemble any thought process that smacks of authority or consolidation. I think that's why Sixes are often associated with academia and science. 

I feel like Fours, on the other hand, would have a more personal reaction, i.e, they would hate for anyone to try to generalize *them* in any way. There is no way your going to get away with trying to lump an ardent individualist in with anyone else, lol...


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## Alles_Paletti (May 15, 2013)

DoubleDare said:


> Funny enough, I feel like Sixes (assuming they are operating somewhere on the average to healthy end of the spectrum) would be the personality type *most* likely to hate sweeping generalizations of any kind. Given their skeptical, questioning, doubting nature, no formal structure lasts very long for a Six. They are quick to want to disassemble any thought process that smacks of authority or consolidation. I think that's why Sixes are often associated with academia and science.
> 
> I feel like Fours, on the other hand, would have a more personal reaction, i.e, they would hate for anyone to try to generalize *them* in any way. There is no way your going to get away with trying to lump an ardent individualist in with anyone else, lol...


Funny, I don't recognize that at all. All fours I've met in real-life are the ones that dislike generalizations. Regardless of whether they are included because they seem to dislike shallowness. 

Sixes dislike authority and structure and dissassemble it? That sounds more like type 5 to me. 

No, I think the sixes I've met at university are the ones that fit very well in the (to me) stiffling atmosphere that is education and academia. 

Where do you get this from? No real life example (from me) or type description of sixes (that I can find) matches what you say?

To be very clear: I'd really like your sources for this because it seems there's something I don't know and I'd like to learn it.


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

DoubleDare said:


> Funny enough, I feel like Sixes (assuming they are operating somewhere on the average to healthy end of the spectrum) would be the personality type *most* likely to hate sweeping generalizations of any kind. Given their skeptical, questioning, doubting nature, no formal structure lasts very long for a Six. They are quick to want to disassemble any thought process that smacks of authority or consolidation. I think that's why Sixes are often associated with academia and science.
> 
> I feel like Fours, on the other hand, would have a more personal reaction, i.e, they would hate for anyone to try to generalize *them* in any way. There is no way your going to get away with trying to lump an ardent individualist in with anyone else, lol...


I don't associate superior reasoning ability, which would include dispensing with sweeping and hasty generalizations, with Enneagram Type, nor do I see irritation with specific fallacies an Enneagram deal at all. Then again, I don't see any point to typing and profession correlations. 

I find 6s to be as logical or illogical as the next type. They can dismantle authority or fallaciously appeal to it. When a hasty or sweeping generalization suits a 6's belief etc., they can be very willing to follow a confirmation bias approach to things. The same can be said of a lot of people. 

I recall @_Spades_ messaging the Fauvres' and saying, "I am skeptical of your research" or something along those lines. And, they had immediately typed her at 6. :laughing: I remember sending a mocking message to the Fauvres', after I saw a composite of pictures of monkeys and 7s where they said that 7s even had a physical resemblance to monkeys thanks to their "monkey brains" (actually a Buddhist concept). I attached a picture of myself just for shits and giggles, and I asked them what they thought of my type. LMAO, they called me an 'unhealthy' 8 and made a big deal of my 'predatory' gaze. 

I find that folks in academia, be it the social sciences or the physical sciences, are trained to be rational skeptics, to follow the the scientific method, to eliminate bias, to discard fallacious reasoning -- including ofc hasty and sweeping generalizations. I know lawyers who are Type 2s, and hell one who is a 4w5 so/sp, who tend to decry sweeping and hasty generalizations a fair bit especially when discussing personality theory. There's a huge trend on forums to say X type does that, and Y type doesn't do this. Many times, they're ill-founded oversimplications and hasty generalizations that don't capture the nuance of type. So, I see where their annoyance is coming from and share it. It doesn't make for fruitful discussion at all. The most common forms of fallacious reasoning on the forum, regarding typing, have to do with faulty generalizations, oversimplifications, association fallacies, false dichotomies, appeals to authority and numbers (bandwagon fallacy) and so on. Again, I don't see any interconnection between this and type.

As for faulty generalizations and authority, I don't see how it relates to authority. I am curious, though. For instance, when I see faulty generalizations, for example, I see poor reasoning skills, shoddy understanding of material and so on. With 6s, they can go both ways with the dismantling/the attachment. Finding balance is key and not just for 6s.


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## Alles_Paletti (May 15, 2013)

Hmm. I read some more material on sixes, for example from this site and I feel I can make a more nuanced viewpoint. 

I said I seek 'independence'. And that I don't feel I have this in common with sixes. I should phrase that more as trusting in my own thinking without testing it. Not that it is good, but I find I have a lot of faith in my own inner thinking and intuition without doing much checking. I need to urge myself to do so. Even then, people presenting me with irrefutable proof will not necessarily derail me, so strong is my belief in my own thoughts and assumptions. I'm aware of this but especially in the heat of the moment I'll need to make a concious effort to take step back and check the facts. 

I see sixes as more practical in the way that they have an inner need to doubt things, to question endlessly, to feel there's something not immediately apparent (and will often be right). Basically, not take things at face value. And I see why in that way they would be good at for example academia. They will be less likely to get things wrong in this way. 

I feel pretty comfortable in making decisions without always having a lot of data or proof, if it fits my "views". I'm aware that sounds silly in a way but it's the truth and why I feel different from a 6. 

If I'm still off, feel free to correct me.


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## GranChi (Jun 16, 2013)

My anti-type would probably be a 7w8, or more likely, an 8w7. Someone confident and assertive who has no trouble getting what they want (in social situations, etc.); someone who knows how to enjoy life and never feels lonely or unimportant.


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