# Quadra self help.



## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

I've been thinking about self-help/motivational speakers.

Gamma has Anthony Robbins (ESFp) for example.






Alpha has Eben Pagan (INTj) for example.






I'm a bit unsure what would be good ones for Betas and Deltas.

Feel free to add suggest good Gamma and Alphas too if you know some. :wink:


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

I know it's nitpick, but I think Robbins is a rational lead, not irrational and I wonder if he's not an LSI or at least SLE. The way he describes fear for example, that's not Te recall but Ti. He didn't describe what fear is based on external systems or ideas. 

Also, he made me go quite tl;dr at some point where he began talking about his personal experiences. It seemed like an attempt to Fe connect.

Pagan seems like he's Te though. ILI-Te perhaps? The crispness of Te though, pure bliss.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

ephemereality said:


> I know it's nitpick, but I think Robbins is a rational lead, not irrational and I wonder if he's not an LSI or at least SLE. The way he describes fear for example, that's not Te recall but Ti. He didn't describe what fear is based on external systems or ideas.
> 
> Also, he made me go quite tl;dr at some point where he began talking about his personal experiences. It seemed like an attempt to Fe connect.


He is obviously using Se alot, especially when younger, he seem much more calm now.
That is why I think he is a Se dom.
Being SLE...
Well it is possible, he is rather focused on Fe'ish stuff come to think of it.
I've always thought of him as an ESFp, but an ESTp type 2w3 or 3w2 could have easily mascaraded
as an MBTI ESFP, hence people can't make up their mind over ESFp vs ENTj.

Edit:
Pagan I just assumed was INTj cause he said he was one himself in one of his vids.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

hornet said:


> He is obviously using Se alot, especially when younger, he seem much more calm now.
> That is why I think he is a Se dom.
> Being SLE...
> Well it is possible, he is rather focused on Fe'ish stuff come to think of it.
> ...


You mean MBTI INTP or INTJ?


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## Direct (May 12, 2014)

Eben Pagan is INTP in MBTI, INTj in socionics, and type 5 on enneagram. He said so in his video program on personality types.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

ephemereality said:


> You mean MBTI INTP or INTJ?


He said he was an INTP.
I dunno how much he understood about cognitive functions at the time.
He might have mistyped himself.
I've always thought it fitted the bill somewhat,
He seemed a little tert Si squeemish.
Yet I think self help people have one thing in common, they get so developed that they are hard to type.
When you handle a lot of issues in your life, a lot of things get mixed up.
We usually type messed up people with issues.

I think his wedding speaks volumes though. xD


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## Direct (May 12, 2014)

Pavel Tsatsouline is great if you are interested in physical fitness. 
He has video programs and has writen many books. Kettlebell training, bodyweight exercises, stretching, strength mindset. He also trains military.
I think he is ENTj.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

hornet said:


> He said he was an INTP.
> I dunno how much he understood about cognitive functions at the time.
> He might have mistyped himself.
> I've always thought it fitted the bill somewhat,
> ...


Right. It could be that he just took an MBTI test and got INTP spat out at him which makes sense because I think that happens to a lot of INTJs because of inferior Se making us seem very P-ish just like I think inferior Fe can make INTPs score high on J.


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## Chest (Apr 14, 2014)

hornet said:


> Yet I think self help people have one thing in common, they get so developed that they are hard to type.


true, I think he got himself right though, thumbs up for Dr. Woodsmall in the back (INTJ) :laughing:, they both have very different styles of communicating that's for sure, Eben almost always leaves a question hanging while Woodsmall wants to explain the solution


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

ephemereality said:


> Right. It could be that he just took an MBTI test and got INTP spat out at him which makes sense because I think that happens to a lot of INTJs because of inferior Se making us seem very P-ish just like I think inferior Fe can make INTPs score high on J.


That could have happened, but I think he is too well read and I think he has read Jung.
Personally I think that when you start to delve into NLP and modelling you end up adopting traits of other types,
making you that much harder for others to type you.


Chest said:


> true, I think he got himself right though, thumbs up for Dr. Woodsmall in the back (INTJ) :laughing:, they both have very different styles of communicating that's for sure, Eben almost always leaves a question hanging while Woodsmall wants to explain the solution


Lol know the names of the people there and stuff. xD
I looked him up and I've actually seen him before on a Ted talk. (Diseducation)
Would never have known if you hadn't pointed it out too me.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

While it may be true that people into self help practices may have come further when it comes to self-actualization, it doesn't mean that they suddenly become untypable, are so actualized that you can't tell their types or such. He's still very Te even in that wedding video. Perhaps he's an ENTJ rather. That Fi is sure very awkward but it ain't inferior Fe. And @hornet, perhaps he did read Jung and typed himself that way, but it doesn't mean he understands himself or Jung or knows how to apply the theory. I mean, the first times I read Jung I thought I was an Fi dom because I related to his Fi portrait. It was only when I got to know an actual Jungian Fi dom IRL that I realized that she fit the portrait so much better than I did and something was off. 

And nah, Pavel is a beta ST type. A lot of fitness experts are. From what can be gleaned from that one video which doesn't say much, he doesn't really seem to Te anyway.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

ephemereality said:


> While it may be true that people into self help practices may have come further when it comes to self-actualization, it doesn't mean that they suddenly become untypable, are so actualized that you can't tell their types or such. He's still very Te even in that wedding video. Perhaps he's an ENTJ rather. That Fi is sure very awkward but it ain't inferior Fe. And @_hornet_, perhaps he did read Jung and typed himself that way, but it doesn't mean he understands himself or Jung or knows how to apply the theory. I mean, the first times I read Jung I thought I was an Fi dom because I related to his Fi portrait. It was only when I got to know an actual Jungian Fi dom IRL that I realized that she fit the portrait so much better than I did and something was off.


I never said people became untypable, 
I said that whenever you model someone you can come off as that someones type on the surface.
Every cue we type off of is manifested trough, posture, language and voicetone.
All of those can be faked if you have enough acting skills, or modelling as Tony calls it.
Something that Se dom and aux are fairly good at.
I'm unsure yet how far it goes or can go, that is something I'm experimenting with at the moment.

As for Eben and Tony, I'll keep what you said in mind the next time I watch them
to see if I can understand something new.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

hornet said:


> I never said people became untypable,
> I said that whenever you model someone you can come off as that someones type on the surface.
> Every cue we type off of is manifested trough, posture, language and voicetone.


Maybe that's how you type but that's not how I type. I type based on an intangible manifestation of their thinking. It's difficult to put into words because I really can't. It can best be summarized as an ability to see directly into their minds, like I'm watching them with my mind's eye. I see all the little things that aren't there but is still very viscerally and tangibly present. In simpler terms, your lack of expression says as much about you as your actual expression does. 

When it comes to that, I have a very hard time seeing how he is a Ti type.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

ephemereality said:


> Maybe that's how you type but that's not how I type. I type based on an intangible manifestation of their thinking. It's difficult to put into words because I really can't. It can best be summarized as an ability to see directly into their minds, like I'm watching them with my mind's eye. I see all the little things that aren't there but is still very viscerally and tangibly present. In simpler terms, your lack of expression says as much about you as your actual expression does.
> 
> When it comes to that, I have a very hard time seeing how he is a Ti type.


Lol that sounds like how I would do it if I would let my Ni take over the show.
Ni gets a say and I do approach it similarly to a degree, try to see around the corner so to speak,
but I'd rather have lots of Se information and just use that.
Then it is harder for Ni to screw up, yet of course it can be faked or misinterpreted,
and I probably do that to a certain degree.
It is easier when I meet people face to face, cause then I get a more solid
sense of how they interact with me.

Maybe he isn't, whatever he is I will study him a bit and try to tease it apart for myself,
but not right now, I have to work a lil bit. xD


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

hornet said:


> Lol that sounds like how I would do it if I would let my Ni take over the show.
> Ni gets a say and I do approach it similarly to a degree, try to see around the corner so to speak,
> but I'd rather have lots of Se information and just use that.
> Then it is harder for Ni to screw up, yet of course it can be faked or misinterpreted,
> ...


I guess it makes sense Se would operate more like that. I can't do that really, it's very difficult because it would be like I have to like stand there and consciously think, hmm now study body language. Chances are that my mind will drift anyway after a while.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

ephemereality said:


> I guess it makes sense Se would operate more like that. I can't do that really, it's very difficult because it would be like I have to like stand there and consciously think, hmm now study body language. Chances are that my mind will drift anyway after a while.


I really have no choice in the matter, Se is just always there.
It is constantly intruding, like a force that will not be denied, so to speak.
It is far easier denying Te, but then I end up feeling insecure after a while.


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