# Why are you single?



## Veggie

Introvertia said:


> That was a wonderful description of timeline! You have talent with writing (actually, storytelling).


Thanks! 

(~And damn, previewing this, it turned into a book). 



Introvertia said:


> I've tested the latter part with dating apps, playing with different pictures. When it's Tinder, it's all about pictures. I had one up with more natural approach, natural look the masses claim to prefer, which lead to little matches. Then I use pictures with my hair done, make up, posing more femininely, and could get all the matches. Also with the profile text - using emojis, have single liners with no actual content seem to attract people, especially men. Then I put a profile up with actual wishes, hopes, dreams, projecting my true desires, and I get superlikes from suspicious people. When I say suspicious, I mean men who are clearly older than the age they present themselves aka lying their age.


I'm on Tinder and Cupid and my approach with them is just a single pic, and no profile at all (other than my age and location). I feel like I match with (or get messaged by) like literally everyone on both, lol, yea. I wonder if the mystery allows for people to kinda project what they want. I prob have a decent face for that too - I think I'm attractive, but I don't know that I have any really particularly distinctive characteristics... in that I'm always apparently the person who looks like or reminds of [someone else]. In both I'm wearing make-up, but not a ton, and my hair is just long, brown, straight.

But gah, the options. I freeze under too many options - though a part of me wants to entertain them all. So I'll sometimes get a number of contact chains going before I just abandon them because I bite off more than I can chew and it's too much to keep up with. I have set up my fair share of dates, and I've had situations that lasted for several months or so - but the options are always there, beckoning. lol. 

I have a love-hate relationship with online dating.

I have met people other ways. Out and about, through set-ups, I tried the forum thing once, I've gotten in touch with people from my past or with mutual acquaintances on social media... but it all feels like it ultimately goes the same. 

I probably am too hard on my appearance given that my selfies are working just fine and I get compliments in person - but I'll compare myself to Kendall Jenner or something and fall into despair. I think I've also developed this fear that I can only attract the perfect person once I perfect myself, and so it's all or nothing. I've sabotaged giving things a real competitive chance first impression wise before by not being as selective as I could in my outfit, by showing up late, etc.. basically putting in minimal effort (though I don't really do this so much anymore). I think the mindset is - if either of us are going to disappoint each other then, meh. Because it's not like this could be the perfect guy, right? How could I attract that to myself rn. I'm not ready yet. 

The idea that the next guy could be the hubby, the baby daddy, the guy I mourn at 90 is extremely intimidating in itself, and the idea that I wouldn't have one last truly lustful hurrah before that all builds and happens is maybe even more so (and I guess more specifically, that this wouldn't be with this person). And it's hard to bolster belief levels in that sort of thing if I'm feeling insecure about how lustful they could really be feeling. Of course, lust isn't just about looks - though it is different than friendship or some forms of idealization.. it can be difficult to know what's what and I don't want a relationship built on those grounds alone. I have decided to give up on ambiguous situations before - like, welp, so this doesn't feel instant or intense enough and it's just ruined now. If I do have a bunch of options - why not just start over and try to improve for the next? Guys who even show real potential are somewhat rare though, so this is admittedly maybe not the healthiest gamble. (Or perhaps I'm holding out like I should? It's likely a drive grounded in wanting that consummate love - the intellectual, emotional and physical connection all in one).

I would say I'm not even sure what exactly I'm afraid of in just doing what I feel I need to do to be "ready" - or in ridding myself of that belief (cus I'm never going to be perfect anyway) - in letting something take off beyond the more casual.. but then that's assuming it's just any one thing when in reality it's many. It doesn't help either that I was poisoned by Disney and have this notion that the "one" is supposed to freeze in awe of meeting me for the first time, while the heavens part above my head and I just "know."



Introvertia said:


> I think when it comes to actual dating, I'm like a chameleon. I play a role I expect the other person to be into, but one can only play along for so long, until it starts cracking ("_your borderline is showing_"). The times I was truly myself, using very little control over own boundaries, I was either too clingy or too detached. When I show my true colors, it scares people. I recognize the pattern you speak of, forming emotional attachments online and leaning more into physical fun IRL. Somehow, it feels right, although it cannot work in the long run. Having a partner who fulfills both aspects seem like naive, wishful thinking to me, but perhaps I have grown bitter.


I can kinda relate, but I feel more like some people expect me to be the person they're ideally into (or who they've assumed I am on a first impression), rather than that I'm really trying to be that person.. if that makes sense. So that's prob an issue with the whole presentation of the "people can project what they want" thing. But then don't people do that anyway? Guys do this to me a lot it feels like... online or off. And it's interesting to learn what those things are. 

There was this one guy who would talk about how laid back I was - that's what he even liked most about me.. and it annoyed me. Like, yea, I _can_ be, but I'm definitely not really a submissive person either - at least, not outside of the bedroom. Idk, was I supposed to lead with - hi, I'm Veggie, guys who can't handle a stubborn b*tch need not apply? I think that sorta even came out more forcefully afterwards than it may have otherwise, in defiance of the projection or something. But it's not like I was lying in my behavior beforehand - I can be laid back, too. My frustration fuse is sorta short though. Maybe he suspected or had gotten hints of this and he was just trying to groom me to put up with bs, to live up to the compliment. lol. I'm probably also single because I'll think of a dozen motivations for why someone might do what they do. It can lead to suspicion, doubt.. those emotions that can kill things. I try to go with the most positive case scenario (at least, when one motivation doesn't seem most likely), but that's sometimes easier said than done. 

I do tend to go with the flow when it comes to sharing and what not. I'm the person who has an existential crisis in those "tell me about yourself" ice breakers. It probably isn't the worst idea to figure which assumptions bother me most, to try to present myself upfront as the opposite, to take charge in that being what I share... framed in a positive way. That feels a little disingenuous or fake or something to me tho. But then idk - I've incorporated other dating strategies that used to feel that way to me too. But I do usually enjoy just letting things sorta take on a life of their own... without too much... like, standardized manipulation? Just let people make up their own minds over time. It also keeps things from becoming mind numbingly repetitive and dull.

~And I had a huge problem with boundaries when I first started dating again, lol. Mine, other people's... I will say they come pretty naturally to me now in most romantic scenarios, so maybe the whole getting "practice" with dating thing wasn't a bust. I trust myself to trust what I (dis)/trust more too. 



Introvertia said:


> We're both from Gen Y which makes sense, pretty much everything you wrote is very relatable.


That's reassuring to hear that it's relatable. I try to remind myself of that when it becomes too easy to start categorizing people and all. That these apps and scenes are just full of humans with (in some ways, similar) human experiences, like myself.


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## Veggie

Negotiator said:


> Have you tried different apps? I had deeper convos on OKCupid, which may have something to do with that it didn't take ages loading.
> 
> I'm not single, but when I was, I was really picky.


How were the meet-ups?

Ime the guys who wanted to have deeper convos up front weren't all that physically attractive to me in person, so it wasn't worth it. I didn't really feel like investing in them before I knew if we clicked in person either.

There were a couple I found especially fun to talk to, so it was sorta more eh, whatever, but they kept evading setting up a date... though they wanted (imo) excessive attention (like messaging throughout the day). I'm not going to sit in someone's back pocket, so I wouldn't let that last longer than about a couple weeks. One had a YouTube channel that was reassuring (and we did meet after I had to push it), but for all I know the other was a catfish or already in a relationship or something (I just requested that he stop contacting me and may have blocked him, I can't remember). 

Playing in the shallow end at first protects you from all the exhausting mini break-ups or ghosting's if things don't work out in person too.

Idk tho - did you meet your current partner on Cupid?


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## Forest Nymph

I had two relationships when I was younger where I felt like the person kinda sorta got me. So it's become a requirement. I'd rather be alone than be with a well meaning fit older man who talked about nothing but sports and finance. Though I appreciate his odd ISTP reliability of character. I also don't want to be with a meat eater or a climate change denier or an immature self absorbed flake and I've known all in the past year. The climate change denier surprised me the most (he was about 90 percent vegan and grew some of his own food and had raised environmental sustainability to an art form). The immature self absorbed hurt me the most though because he pretended to understand and love me. Fucking unhealthy NFs. 

I'm pickier than I was when I was when I was younger about personality. I am so intolerant. Which is good because one of my exes was abusive. 

I'm more relaxed about looks though. I think naturally with age you realize how beautiful a lot of people are, where you take it for granted as a twenty year old. 

So my standards for looks or money aren't unrealistic but personality standards are almost all or nothing at this point.


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## DudeGuy

I'm passively romantic.


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## RyuukoGo

It is complicated why I am single.

I am mixed Asian,Intersex and Transgender.
Men,women and couples want to date me more as a novelty ...not to have a relationship with.I really want a relationship.
Women I have dated compliment on my face...next year I have Facial Feminization Surgery my so face will change.
Men,gay and straight, want to date me because I still have a penis...but that maybe removed next year.
Couples want to date me...but I don't have the ability to have two relationships at the same time.
In my mind I want a husband as a woman..but physically I am still male.
Starting a relationship while transitioning,at least to me and at this time is not mentally healthy for me.
My life never gets boring :heart:


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## Negotiator

Veggie said:


> How were the meet-ups?
> 
> Ime the guys who wanted to have deeper convos up front weren't all that physically attractive to me in person, so it wasn't worth it. I didn't really feel like investing in them before I knew if we clicked in person either.
> 
> There were a couple I found especially fun to talk to, so it was sorta more eh, whatever, but they kept evading setting up a date... though they wanted (imo) excessive attention (like messaging throughout the day). I'm not going to sit in someone's back pocket, so I wouldn't let that last longer than about a couple weeks. One had a YouTube channel that was reassuring (and we did meet after I had to push it), but for all I know the other was a catfish or already in a relationship or something (I just requested that he stop contacting me and may have blocked him, I can't remember).
> 
> Playing in the shallow end at first protects you from all the exhausting mini break-ups or ghosting's if things don't work out in person too.
> 
> Idk tho - did you meet your current partner on Cupid?


No, I met him through PerC 

I used OKCupid toward the end of my singledom, and only dated one ENTJ off it. He was courteous, even kissed my hand after date 1 lol. Didn't go beyond that. He had a dark side I didn't particularly like.

I chatted with one ENFJ, which seemed like an okay prospect, and made one INTP friend. We chatted about everything from ethics in the world to Cambridge Analytica, so there was little smalltalk on my OKC encounters.


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## Introvertia

Catwalk said:


> Currently, I like to be always open and on the market. I reckon a large part - is enjoying everything "leading up to" the relationship, but not the actual relationship itself. Also, have a maximization problem in that my last relationships turned into me simply maximizing my poor partners/pushing them too hard impatiently - so my build-a-better-partner impulsions must stop. There is a bit of myself that is "_always looking for better,_" which needs to be sorted out before dragging another specimen into my mess or I will constantly pick at them.
> 
> In other word(s), while I have the capacity for a relationship, I enjoy the games and attention much more - and the freedom to walk away when I am tired of dating someone.
> 
> I also find "happy relationships" off-putting, (&) I reckon that is also something I need work on. I have ended things because they were "too good" ... & can start getting mean if I do not have the proper stimulus. I do not like stagnancy or sameness in any sense.


Ooo, I get that. The anticipation excites me more than actual dating. I dislike the inevitable part in a relationship in which things turn mundane and trying to revive the spark feels artificial. When being together turns into stable, comfortable flow and both accept it, my anxiety starts rising. I feel like without progression of relationship (and I don't mean getting married, having children, that bs) there is no point. The nightmare is becoming couch-potatoes with someone and accepting that fate. 

You made me think about a build-your-own-mate-factory ..


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## Introvertia

I rejoined OKC, I added just one picture there, but I filled the entire profile, not diving too deep, but showing glimpses of interests so maybe some personalized matches could happen - actually, already did. There are now more local people on OKC than last time I was active there (_yay_). 

The flow of matches and messages in online dating is overwhelming. People already sharing their life stories in first messages? Having no boundaries over their privacy. This reminds me of my patients.


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## Veggie

Introvertia said:


> I rejoined OKC, I added just one picture there, but I filled the entire profile, not diving too deep, but showing glimpses of interests so maybe some personalized matches could happen - actually, already did. There are now more local people on OKC than last time I was active there (_yay_).
> 
> The flow of matches and messages in online dating is overwhelming. People already sharing their life stories in first messages? Having no boundaries over their privacy. This reminds me of my patients.


I've met more people on Cupid who go deep upfront than on Tinder, but for the most part I've found them to be somewhat similar - if you're actively looking to date (meet) and not just talk to people. The differentiator used to be that people could message you before you'd matched, but now that they've done away with that (well, if you're swiping and their profile happens to pop up, you can still see the message then, which is different than Tinder), they're even more so. 

I hate that they changed that btw lol. I used to just keep the app up on my phone, and I'd get alerts for new messages. If I was interested I could respond in a timelier fashion (if not I'd just ignore), and it made managing responses and planning meet ups easier. Plus it was time efficient - rather than just swipe and swipe, a lot of my time spent on the app was spent talking to people who were already interested and communicating (and plenty were the same guys I would have swiped on anyway). Now sometimes I'll swipe and find a profile with a message from months ago. It's seemed to slow down a lot since they did that - and a lot of people just won't bother sending them upfront anymore.

That's cool if it seems to be picking back up though. I haven't used it in a while.


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## Catwalk

Introvertia said:


> Ooo, I get that. The anticipation excites me more than actual dating. I dislike the inevitable part in a relationship in which things turn mundane and trying to revive the spark feels artificial. When being together turns into stable, comfortable flow and both accept it, my anxiety starts rising. I feel like without progression of relationship (and I don't mean getting married, having children, that bs) there is no point. The nightmare is becoming couch-potatoes with someone and accepting that fate.


As _marvelous _as it seems to be "caught" & placed in a freezer for eternity, it is a big yikes reality for me. Reeling each other in & tossing them back is much more fun and humane for the time being.



> You made me think about a build-your-own-mate-factory ..


This would be great.


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## Denature

Introvertia said:


> I feel like without progression of relationship (and I don't mean getting married, having children, that bs) there is no point. The nightmare is becoming couch-potatoes with someone and accepting that fate.


Not my conversation, but I wanted to chime in here. To me it sounds like you'd like a man who gets out, is into self improvement, and will do things with you like hiking, building something physical together like a house or shed, and have endless projects to work on together.

Also @Catwalk, that avatar looks painful :laughing:


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## Catwalk

Denature said:


> Also @Catwalk, that avatar looks painful :laughing:


Never painful. At most restrictive breaths.


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## tanstaafl28

I was with the same woman for almost 20 years (married for 15) when I caught her cheating. I walked. After things cooled down a little, I was willing to reconcile, but she wasn't. 

The thing is, it took me six months just to get used to how much she liked to touch me, let alone letting her into my innermost thoughts and feelings! Once I got used to that, when she was gone, I didn't know how to deal with not being touched again, or trust anyone else to the extent that I trusted her. I ached for just a few minutes of wrapping my arms around her in bed. Yet, it wasn't just one betrayal, it was a series of them, and I stuck by her through all of them; right up to the point when I found she was being unfaithful. 

I just don't know if I can go through all that again. I don't know if I can let another person in. It was just so hard to do the last time and I got burned. I miss all the joys, tragedies, triumphs, and companionship, but I'm just so scared of someone getting all the way in and slashing me apart. I don't think I can take it again and come out the other side.

It seems my whole life is a wasteland littered with people whom I loved and trusted, and every one of them, whether they meant it or not, betrayed me. At what point do I just close the room and turn out the light? Is hope even something I should have when I'm almost 50? 

I've decided I can't let that bother me right now. Yes, I'm desperately lonely. Yes, even after 4 years, I feel like a part of me was ripped out, and what remains aches for the loss. All I feel I can do right now is concentrate on me. Maybe after some time of doing that, I'll find the right woman and try again. So that's why I'm still single.


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## Katie Tran

I'm single by choice.

I only date someone when I love them hard. I pour all my energy, connection, affections and sexual desire on to them. I need a partner in crime. I have yet to meet anyone worthy of that.
I need the animalistic chemistry.

I literally cannot do casual hook ups, fwb or one night stands because I cannot get turned on by anyone whom I don't have real feelings for.

Seeing relationship fall outs in real life, on the internet and on here has made me commitment phobic and fear getting hurt. 

I'm comfortable in and like my own company. 

It's more fun watching romantic/relationship drama happening around me rather than to me. 

Relationships are ew. I don't do it.


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## Pastelle

No one showed interests in me...


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## tanstaafl28

Pastelle said:


> No one showed interests in me...


You do realize that's a two-way street, right?


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## General Lee Awesome

Introvertia said:


> Ooo, I get that. The anticipation excites me more than actual dating. I dislike the inevitable part in a relationship in which things turn mundane and trying to revive the spark feels artificial. When being together turns into stable, comfortable flow and both accept it, my anxiety starts rising. I feel like without progression of relationship (and I don't mean getting married, having children, that bs) there is no point. The nightmare is becoming couch-potatoes with someone and accepting that fate.
> 
> You made me think about a build-your-own-mate-factory ..


Haha.. if you don’t want the relationship to be boring then become the person you want in the relationship.. bring your own interest and personality into the relationship and it will not become
Boring.

I really enjoy hiking and camping, and I m bring her to hike and camp with me. 

Make small goals or activities together. 

At first we were training for 5km run.. then 10km and now we are thinking of doing the half marathon.


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## Pastelle

tanstaafl28 said:


> You do realize that's a two-way street, right?


I do. I drop subtle hints (that's probably the problem), but feel that I'm too much of a loser and unappealing to be more forthcoming. (Note: I'm like that with everyone).


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## tanstaafl28

Pastelle said:


> I do. I drop subtle hints (that's probably the problem), but feel that I'm too much of a loser and unappealing to be more forthcoming. (Note: I'm like that with everyone).


Well, the only way to get out of that rut is to fake it until you make it. Confidence starts out as something you project when you don't actually feel that way. It's kind of like fear and courage. You can't have courage without being afraid. You can't be confident without being secretly a little bit not confident in yourself. You don't act arrogant, you act like you can face what's in front of you and deal with what comes next, even if you're not entirely sure how you're going to do that. That's all it really is, repeat that behavior. The more people you interact with, the easier it becomes. Rejection is just part of the process. Keep trying.

Maybe check out a site called meetup.org. It has social events by interest in your area. You decide how involved you want to be. Something doesn't feel right, you can bolt. Find a group of people you can get into with a common interest. It helps to start with some general socializing.


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## Eugenia Shepherd

Katie Tran said:


> I'm single by choice.
> 
> I only date someone when I love them hard. I pour all my energy, connection, affections and sexual desire on to them. I need a partner in crime. I have yet to meet anyone worthy of that.
> I need the animalistic chemistry.
> 
> I literally cannot do casual hook ups, fwb or one night stands because I cannot get turned on by anyone whom I don't have real feelings for.
> 
> Seeing relationship fall outs in real life, on the internet and on here has made me commitment phobic and fear getting hurt.
> 
> I'm comfortable in and like my own company.
> 
> It's more fun watching romantic/relationship drama happening around me rather than to me.
> 
> Relationships are ew. I don't do it.


Could've said the same thing. roud: 

As far as I'm concerned, my lack of romantic drive has little to do with perceived insufficiencies/insecurities.
I'm healthy, emotionally resilient, attractive-ish, and independent. I just don't have resources to waste on something superficial, or worse, toxic.
My parents are -messily- divorced, so it's not like that's easy to brush off. 
Would rather save myself undue pain and enjoy my company alone.


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## tanstaafl28

MeltedSorbet said:


> I always imagined it'd be really cold. But love is magical, so I think it could also be something for many people.
> 
> I noticed your post in this thread, because I remember when you were separating with your wife. I remember your posts before and after. It seems like we're similar in that we both have felt really hurt in relationships that we were invested in. Where we believed that 'this is the one.' (I mean--not sure about you, but I did.)
> 
> Though I still can't imagine how painful it'd be to find my partner betraying me in such a way, after so many years. One of my coworkers is going through a divorce right now for that reason. They were married for almost 20 years. :crying:
> 
> I think it's hard to come back from that, but I admire how you've always kept an optimistic attitude, and how you've also sought to counsel people about love, in a positive way.
> 
> But it still sort of makes me wonder if that happens--if people get so hurt that they just have trouble bouncing back. I know, just as much as that happens, it also happens that people have wonderful happy relationships later on. One of my friends is in a great relationship with someone she knew from high school, after the end of her marriage--she is enjoying the world, exploring, and just enjoying her life with her partner.


I think it would be intellectually stimulating, but maybe not so much emotionally expressive, however, It seems we're also both Ne doms, so that has to be rather interesting. 

I haven't had a serious relationship in the 4 years since I divorced. Part of that is just being in "survival mode" since I moved from Las Vegas to Maryland and suddenly had to worry about all the "adult necessities" my ex used to handle for me (she's an ISTJ 8w7 863 Sp/SX). The other part is what I described before. It would have to be someone very amazing and special for me to be able to open up again. I'm in therapy trying to clear up some of my trust issues (among some other things). I admit that I have issues I would like to get a better handle on and I can't do it all by myself. Walling myself up and living like a hermit doesn't work for me in the long run, so I'm looking for something else.


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## Mystic MagentaRose

I was in an abusive relationship with my ex for a long time, I finally got out of it. He would threaten me and was very abusive towards me. Finally I got out of the relationship about three years ago and been focusing on myself. Trying not to focus on dating or relationships right now. Just do things I enjoy again and get into new hobbies. Need to love myself first before I enter a new relationship. I'm in no rush for anything right now. So I think I'm making a great choice! c:


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## Crowbo

Introvertia said:


> I rejoined OKC, I added just one picture there, but I filled the entire profile, not diving too deep, but showing glimpses of interests so maybe some personalized matches could happen - actually, already did. There are now more local people on OKC than last time I was active there (_yay_).
> 
> The flow of matches and messages in online dating is overwhelming. People already sharing their life stories in first messages? Having no boundaries over their privacy. This reminds me of my patients.


Lol, wish I had the same experience on OKC. Messaging has been super slow for me and conversations end way too fast.

I haven't said anything stupid on there so why does this happen?


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## Marvin the Dendroid

Crowbo said:


> Lol, wish I had the same experience on OKC. Messaging has been super slow for me and conversations end way too fast.
> 
> I haven't said anything stupid on there so why does this happen?


You're male.


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## Crowbo

Marvin the Dendroid said:


> You're male.


Fair enough, yeah


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## Marvin the Dendroid

Crowbo said:


> Fair enough, yeah


Online dating as a female...










...vs. online dating as a male.


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## SgtPepper

XD


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## Crowbo

Marvin the Dendroid said:


> Online dating as a female...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...vs. online dating as a male.


Berry true XD This makes sense but I wonder. Why is it like this?


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## Marvin the Dendroid

Crowbo said:


> Berry true XD This makes sense but I wonder. Why is it like this?


Men have always done most of the chasing. Reduce the cost of chasing 1,000-fold and increase chasing opportunities 1,000-fold and this is what you get.


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## angelfish

Crowbo said:


> Berry true XD This makes sense but I wonder. Why is it like this?


Theoretically at least... its roots are just in biology... the average female can produce an offspring slightly more than once a year given gestation, birth, and recovery... whereas a man could theoretically produce an offspring every half-hour given the average refractory period... that's 11 months to 30 minutes... divides out to 16060 dads for every 1 mom... that's a looooot of daddies...


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## Marvin the Dendroid

angelfish said:


> Theoretically at least... its roots are just in biology... the average female can produce an offspring slightly more than once a year given gestation, birth, and recovery... whereas a man could theoretically produce an offspring every half-hour given the average refractory period... that's 11 months to 30 minutes... divides out to 16060 dads for every 1 mom... that's a looooot of daddies...


Interestingly, precisely the opposite has happened throughout history. Especially in Europe around 5,000 - 7,000 years ago... Only 1 in 17 men ended up fathering children. Heavy competition.


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## WickerDeer

Aridela said:


> Same.
> 
> Though I wouldn't be that bothered if they smoked the occasional joint if it weren't for the smell.
> 
> I just find it revolting.


I used to really dislike stoners, maybe because lots of stoners in my family, but I always liked the smell--it would kind of piss me off that I disliked pot but liked the smell.

Now I think of it as medicine much more and I really appreciate it that way. I think it's great that it's legal here and it helped me quit nicotine.

But yeah, it's weird because my values are kind of against dependency on a substance, but I'm not really aligned with my values that way. I'm pretty prone to addiction, it seems (if there is such a thing and I'm not just a weak ass pansy).

It's kind of funny to me because I feel sort of like I'm being judgmental but it's also just my survival at stake, because I really just don't need to be around addictive substances. Cannabis has earned a lot of respect from me because people can even use it to get out of addictions--it can have a lot of benefits.



tanstaafl28 said:


> I think it would be intellectually stimulating, but maybe not so much emotionally expressive, however, It seems we're also both Ne doms, so that has to be rather interesting.
> 
> I haven't had a serious relationship in the 4 years since I divorced. Part of that is just being in "survival mode" since I moved from Las Vegas to Maryland and suddenly had to worry about all the "adult necessities" my ex used to handle for me (she's an ISTJ 8w7 863 Sp/SX). The other part is what I described before. It would have to be someone very amazing and special for me to be able to open up again. I'm in therapy trying to clear up some of my trust issues (among some other things). I admit that I have issues I would like to get a better handle on and I can't do it all by myself. Walling myself up and living like a hermit doesn't work for me in the long run, so I'm looking for something else.


I saw a counselor for a while, and she said something similar about withdrawing from life. She described it like that--like there are rings or something that you inhabit, but that I tend to just withdraw and retreat further inward, and become more isolated. Maybe that's the ennegram coming out. But living like a hermit and walling yourself up is doesn't work in the long run.

Especially for a 5, too, I think it can be hard to ask for help. But sometimes that's exactly what is needed, because by that point you've probably exhausted yourself trying to deal with it on your own.

My ex is an ESFJ E2, I think--I think the J/P dynamic was helpful for the relationship and part of what kept it going for so long. He wasn't really my 'father' in that way, but he was also over a decade older than me and I did tend to keep on task more because I didn't want to offend him or whatever...stuff like 'bills have to be paid exactly on the day that you get the bill...you have to look through the whole bill...you have to call the company if the bill is higher than normal...you must fight with them until they lower the bill...' Like that stuff--at first I was like 'yay! no one's going to tell me to pay the bills that day' but now it's like 'okay...I hate the mail and I'm going to have to force myself to deal with it, but no one's hear acting like it's an offense against God if I leave the mail for a couple days, so it just sits around for way too long and now the bill got even bigger!'

I like how you're being practical and proactive about challenges.


----------



## WickerDeer

Crowbo said:


> Berry true XD This makes sense but I wonder. Why is it like this?


I think part of it is also just how people approach it. Like i talked to men on OKCupid who said they pretty much just look at a woman's picture and then send a message...it's like their approach is 'quantity' rather than quality.

And then women just get a shit ton of these messages, which gets too overwhelming. 

Plus women might also have more negative experiences on there--like having a guy who stalks them or insults them for not replying or something.

When I had an account there, there was this one guy who got really angry I didn't reply to him and kept making duplicate accounts since I'd block him. 

I also had a guy message me to tell me that he thought how I said 'I probably won't respond' made me sound pretentious, when I was just trying to be honest because honestly I am probably not going to respond and I felt kind of guilty like right away.

lol one guy I did actually go on dates with, I responded to him because I saw he was a physicist and I was like 'I'm going to get free physics lessons!' and it turned out he actually just kind of decided to write me because of my picture--I don't even think he read the entire profile. I think this is pretty common. And it's sort of disheartening for me, which is why I closed my account.

Anyway, I'm not sure why it's like that but it is and it's probably kind of self-perpetuating. I think it's great, but you can't take it personally if no one responds to you. You're basically a stranger to them and they get messages from strangers all the time.


----------



## Introvertia

Crowbo said:


> Lol, wish I had the same experience on OKC. Messaging has been super slow for me and conversations end way too fast.
> 
> I haven't said anything stupid on there so why does this happen?


What kind of messages do you send to people?

It seems to be a very different game for women and men. I don't have to initiate anything, because there's already a flow of msgs. If it makes you feel any better, most messages are just "Hi" or "Pretty" which are automatically skipped for lack of content. 

I think the best messages are customized towards you, like giving some info about personalized interests and asking me question or two, it's guaranteed to get a reply from me. It shows curiosity and it makes me curious in return. But if it's obvious chain-letters or one words, skip~


----------



## Introvertia

@Veggie

Ooo, thanks for the info! You just made my life a little bit easier (_now I can read messages on app too, woo_). 

The motivation to answer the entire questionnaire was just because you would get those traits given to you by the system. I was more playful and less capitalistic. I carried it proudly as a badge of honor, BUT CUPIDO TOOK IT AWAY FROM ME. 

I think I have seen almost all the dating profile guy-tropes you mentioned in your post! In my experience, the most suitable sounding guys on online dating are most likely to become new friends, which is a win too. Usually there is no spark if the person is too similar. It really is best to just meet asap so you don't have time to build castles in the sky in your mind about the other person and simultaneously, you minimize the risk of catfish folks. Two cancelled meetings, and you're out! Have you ever met catfish, btw? I decided I will merely befriend foreigners living abroad, and consider only nearby people, local or foreign, seriously for dating. 

Yeeeaaaah, I wouldn't marry, unless I truly was masterfully tricked into it (and _at least_ drunk). Maybe he was being polite, asking for consent before performing the trickery, you know. If that was my fate, I would be the worst wife on purpose. B)


----------



## DudeGuy

Crowbo said:


> Berry true XD This makes sense but I wonder. Why is it like this?


Men probably care less and about being rejected, or are more motivated to accept rejection, and women are probably happy to avoid rejection if there are enough willing men. I'm just spitballing here and I'm probably wrong. :thinking2: and of course everyone is different, and sometimes men chase men or women chase women. Don't get me started on furries.


----------



## Veggie

Introvertia said:


> It really is best to just meet asap so you don't have time to build castles in the sky in your mind about the other person and simultaneously, you minimize the risk of catfish folks. Two cancelled meetings, and you're out! Have you ever met catfish, btw? I decided I will merely befriend foreigners living abroad, and consider only nearby people, local or foreign, seriously for dating.


I've never been catfished, but I have built those castles before that can lead to disappointment when the in person reality doesn't sync up for whatever reason. And yea, I only date locally. I live right outside a pretty large city though, so my dating pool is a decent size.


----------



## Northcrest

A few reasons. I'm moving soon and I don't want to be in anything serious at the moment. But other reasons have been that I'm not the best at dating. I dont enjoy the steps like courting, going on multitudes of dates, and so on. I've never thoroughly enjoyed it. I just do it. 

On the flip side right now I'm living in a small town in a country where most people dont speak my language. So it can be a bit difficult to meet women who are:

1. Interested in a foreigner 
2. Dont mind the language barrier (though I practice the native language often and am willing to use it as well)

Many people around my age (25) seem to want to get married, have kids, and settle down now. I wouldnt mind being in a committed relationship if that's how the chips fell, but I dont have any interest in settling down and starting a family. Honestly maybe not till my mid 30s.


----------



## AdaptingMotif

I dern hard erm is single cuz aye dunt vant no headache <dings me spittoon>


----------



## Hexigoon

Cause I'm just a hermit who has withdrawn from society.


----------



## stevieg306

TBH I just never put in the effort to be in a relationship, I like the single life but at times I don't like it. Many of my friends wished they were single but being an Aspie it's not that easy for me to engage in conversation with sexual intent


----------



## Powermetal101

I chose to be single


----------



## KSYHM

I don’t have a lot of contact with girls. And when I do have someone who is interested in me, I become either picky or there is something that makes our relation hard. When I talk about pickiness, I don’t refer to body features. As long as she is not in overweight and is pretty or cute, I’m good with it. I’m really picky about personality.


----------



## Sygma

I'm over the whole relationship thing. Its a pure waste of time, money and most importantly its way too stressful. Got one shot at life, if somebody wanna share the ride then ok, otherwise I'll just try living it fully on my own

It just sucks on the whole having kids thing because I've always wanted a daughter, but I really don't see it happening from any angle. I don't have any problem socializing / talking to ladies but like I don't know man, I guess I'm way jaded. Women here are all boring and materialistic to a fault which I find frankly unappealing

The ones I find interesting are usually taken (police officers, rugby players, lawyers or working at the law, pole dancers or like, the scientist types but I'm more into either very feminine or very kick ass women) and you know, I learned a long time ago not being attracted to unavailable people, so it feels like a pit of numbness all around lol it's super fun.

At least I know I'm not wasting my time. Haven't had sex in like four years either and I don't miss it oddly enough


----------



## Sybow

I don't need someone next to me.
I'm fine on my own.


----------



## Echoe

Until recently, I enslaved myself to work and school for years. I also avoided relationships while I dealt with depression until my mid twenties. 

I'm looking to enslave myself again. I might have to move for school, or I might be too busy to date if I were to stay here. Who knows? I don't feel that interested in a relationship anyway. The older I get, the less I care. I've gotten happier year by year. I guess the yearning for a relationship to enhance life just decreases as I find more joy in other places.
Another reason... I was slightly "traumatized", perhaps, by a past relationship. Sometimes I don't want to get into a relationship out of fear.

So there are several reasons why I'm single now and have been for a long time.


----------



## nicoloco90

Single because Fi wants magic. That kind of magic that never makes you question them again in terms of how attracted you are to them (mentally, physically, everything). That kind of magic that makes you indifferent to your sexual fulfilment so you don't have to choose between boobs and dicks.

Magic is by no means the best standard to go by though, as even people that don't fit you (or your life) may radiate this magic to you. 

But i'm always bored and uninspired - and magic is sparkly. So yeah ...


----------



## StinkyBambi

i actually have no idea. 
i'm the full package honestly.
I flirt with guys and will go clubbing to get attention


----------



## VinnieBob

StinkyBambi said:


> i actually have no idea.
> i'm the full package honestly.
> I flirt with guys and will go clubbing to get attention


You club your potential matesopcorn::thinking2:
Chloroform is much simpler and less painfulh:
I prefer to stay single because I HAVE to live alone
Dating/seeing someone would be to mentally exhaustive for me
In order to keep me from going on a murder rampage like no other I must have my down time from the air breathers
I adore my independence waaaaaaaay to much


----------



## StinkyBambi

Satanbobevilpants said:


> You club your potential matesopcorn::thinking2:
> Chloroform is much simpler and less painfulh:
> I prefer to stay single because I HAVE to live alone
> Dating/seeing someone would be to mentally exhaustive for me
> In order to keep me from going on a murder rampage like no other I must have my down time from the air breathers
> I adore my independence waaaaaaaay to much


im glad for you, you're lucky in that respect. unfortunately for me im too dependant on others. i HAVE to live with others otherwise I GO MAD.


----------



## Prismatic Butterfly

Got out of a serious relationship last year, it was a difficult breakup. I'm enjoying being single and kind of finding myself again, and still feel too raw to open myself to anyone at the moment. I'm still having difficulty thinking I even can. lol


----------



## Jaune

Nobody of interest has shown any evident interest in me. I'm too socially incompetent to understand any signals of flirting, and definitely horrible at initiating any flirting.

Also, I am very closed off and suspicious of letting others into my life. I don't know how to open up and become involved in a relationship, even if I am interested.


----------



## WindowLicker

I am looking for a comfort zone in another person that I found, but lost. Now that I know what that's like and it's real I think I am going to chase that until I find it again. It's the only thing that's worth being in a relationship with anyone for. Essentially, I want the comfort of being alone with another person, and to share that sense of familiarity and belonging.


----------



## Gossip Goat

I'm not but I should be. I'm far too neurotic, insecure, and paranoid for this.


----------



## alex829

Quite a few failures and teachings from past experiences, so in the end it's because of choice. I genuinely enjoy being by myself right now, as I have more time to focus on myself and activities. Realistically, I'm also too lazy to put the effort to talk to girls, and I'm content with the present. However once I think it's the time for it, I'll put the effort in.


----------



## Meliodas

Location. 

I live in an area with very little in the way of intellectual activity. High art and culture are looked upon as snobby and a sign of elitism, so as a classical musician and composer, who has interests in poetry, European history, politics and philosophy, and dislikes sport, fashion, pop music and gossip, I am rather limited in my clientele. I need to be able to flirt with my partner through the mind. Also, my personality (very precise and logical, want to get down to business) rubs a lot of people the wrong way here, as they are rather passive and conflict-avoidant.

My solution to this problem is, well, to leave the country, but that takes time. So if any ladies like the above and are up for a FWB, do let me know.


----------



## The Dude

I'm always on the road for work. Even if I wasn't always travelling, the fact that the only relationships I've had has been with crazy Italian chicks isn't really making eager to get into another one.


----------



## big90cloud

i was too shy about it. Now im discovering myself and need space and peace for it


----------



## Introvertia

Gossip Ghoul said:


> I'm not but I should be. I'm far too neurotic, insecure, and paranoid for this.


I'm not single anymore either and I'm dealing with similar issues within myself that being in a relationship highlights.


----------



## DudeGuy

girl: may i ask you a personal question?
me: sure, yeah
girl: are you single?
me: yes
girl: why?
me: ... errrm, i'm not actively looking for a relationship.
girl: i think you're handsome


_oh dear :sorrow:_


----------



## Six

Because everything is set and setting.










It's not the girl that's the challenge these days it's the house in a nice place, the good school, the equitable work-life balance and the provision of sufficient financial security for family formation.

Until that point you've built the platform for a real life and a real relationship which has mileage spending thumb-swiping time on the infinite carousel of paradox of choice is pointless - you're searching for solutions to your own problems in other people, people have their own problems.

The key is to have solved so many of your own you have surplus ability for someone else, and again, that's harder these days.


----------



## nicoloco90

DudeGuy said:


> girl: may i ask you a personal question?
> me: sure, yeah
> girl: are you single?
> me: yes
> girl: why?
> me: ... errrm, i'm not actively looking for a relationship.
> girl: i think you're handsome
> 
> 
> _oh dear :sorrow:_


DudeGuy don't forget, you're with me already


----------



## Handsome Dyke

do ppl even read comments this deep in the thread


----------



## DudeGuy

nicoloco90 said:


> DudeGuy don't forget, you're with me already


not according to my story :suspicion:


Saiyed En Sabah Nur said:


> do ppl even read comments this deep in the thread


I often read the titles of threads and then just the most recent posts.


----------



## Djairouks

Aridela said:


> I took relationships seriously up until I turned 32, then realised I'd rather take myself seriously.
> 
> Most people are not going to invest as much as I do in a relationship, and apart from sex on a tap, I don't know what else an SO has to offer me. I'm pretty self sufficient as it is.


Pretty much same conclusion here, I wanted a GF for years and had multiple relationships, that pretty much failed because as you say I invested myself much more than the other every time, so now I'm kind of in a weird state of contentment, realizing that it is smarter to be alone because I'm not frustrated in giving more, but really I can't be bothered with making efforts anymore, the "love fuel" is all depleted and i say my passions and adventures, bring me much more joy and contentment !

I used to be the very monogam guy, looking down upon FWB situations, but honestly now I think that's all I'd consider, so I can have my free/alone time and not have to solve issues for someone anymore, weird how life evolves !


----------



## NipNip

DudeGuy said:


> I often read the titles of threads and then just the most recent posts.


Exactly. And any previous page has at one time been the most recent one. So @Saiyed En Sabah Nur, there is a passing interest in _everything_.


----------



## 0001

I choose to be single. Even if I wanted a relationship, my area has nothing to offer besides close-minded, conventional types.

I also just have a lack of interest in relationships of any kind. Never truly bonded with the people around me. There was always a weird disconnect. I'm so used to being on my own and nurturing myself that companionship seems unnecessary. Sometimes I have romantic fantasies, but I will get tired at just the thought of making them real. I love and hate the rush I get from a crush. They are fun but they also make me feel like my brain is rotting away
One day I might let someone in if they float along and catch my interest.


----------



## 497882

Introvertia said:


> *Is it a conscious choice or are you a victim of circumstances? *
> Feel free to approach this subject from any angle you find most intriguing.
> 
> For me, it's mostly the first, but with a hint of martyrdom.
> 
> I'm quite picky, although I'm not a prize.
> I crave for novelty. I get bored of places, situations, including people.
> I don't take good care of myself. I could, but I don't care enough.
> I have some issues that strictly affect relationships with other people.
> 
> As a bottomless pit, I crave for a relationship, but not enough to adjust.


It seems I am good at catching fish but not keeping them long. People are rather shallow and often leave for a different pretty face? Perhaps its this generation.


----------



## DudeGuy




----------



## Lucan1010

Honestly, at this point, it's just my terrible sense of timing. I've missed so many opportunities simply by waiting too long lol. I need to just ask people out sooner, and not be so hesitant about it. It's not even a social anxiety sort of thing, it's more just I'm very picky with relationships. Oh well.


----------



## LittleOrange

Because every time I truly like someone, for various reasons the relationship is not possible or is somehow complicated. The situation is never "normal". I wonder when will the universe finally run out of these freaking scenarios lol


----------



## nikonugonikling

Because I'm very picky and also I never go on dates


----------



## VeryLazy

Victim of circumstances, or basically, tough luck.
I am trying to get into relationship, so there is hope. I don't care about looks. But should about my look, tho: but I dunno what I need to do and lazy to find it out, so limiting to doing basic hygiene things. 
Also I am stuck in low self-confidence loop with things like impostor syndrome.I just can't believe I am worthy.


----------



## haato

Being single is a conscious choice for me. I still have a huge checklist of stuff that I want to do and learn that I don't want to be tied down by relationships. Of course there's that nagging feeling of not being good enough for anybody - so I compensate by accomplishing stuff.


----------



## Argenio

haato said:


> Being single is a conscious choice for me. I still have a huge checklist of stuff that I want to do and learn that I don't want to be tied down by relationships. Of course there's that nagging feeling of not being good enough for anybody - so I compensate by accomplishing stuff.


same here ) and I got disappointed with my previous relations so I suppose it's also some sort of complexes I'm having (


----------



## EyeSack

Inside Job said:


> Location.
> 
> I live in an area with very little in the way of intellectual activity. High art and culture are looked upon as snobby and a sign of elitism, so as a classical musician and composer, who has interests in poetry, European history, politics and philosophy, and dislikes sport, fashion, pop music and gossip, I am rather limited in my clientele. I need to be able to flirt with my partner through the mind. Also, my personality (very precise and logical, want to get down to business) rubs a lot of people the wrong way here, as they are rather passive and conflict-avoidant.
> 
> My solution to this problem is, well, to leave the country, but that takes time. So if any ladies like the above and are up for a FWB, do let me know.



Everything you said is basically the same for me, except I'm interested in all kind of history, plus cultures, cosmology, and these interests kinda narrow down the available prospects in my location


----------



## Mystic MagentaRose

Believe I may have answered this, I'll this again though. As of right now, I still haven't found the person that I truly connect with. I thought I found this person who I deeply connected with and I know he connected with me too, only he ended up pushing me away. So I ended up letting him go. I'm not one to go chasing or looking desperate. I will be Single until I find the person who I truly connect with. I'm 36 years old now and I would like to have a long term relationship, only I haven't found them yet. So I will continue on focusing on myself until that day happens. I will remain positive about this, I'm not wanting to look desperate or depressed about it. I used to think like that, and it got me absolutely nowhere.


----------



## Meliodas

EyeSack said:


> Everything you said is basically the same for me, except I'm interested in all kind of history, plus cultures, cosmology, and these interests kinda narrow down the available prospects in my location


Intelligent people are often caught in a double bind: if you demonstrate a lot of insight into something, you are seen as a snob and arrogant by those around you, which makes you unhappy, at least if you want to be liked - but if you try the passive approach and abandon your native style to fit in, you are denying yourself and will also become unhappy. I am quite open to people who think differently to me, I just expect the same good grace in return.

Anyway, enough of that - what historical periods and cultures are you most attracted to? Perhaps as a result of being a musician, I've become interested in late17th/18th Century Europe - the time between the Treaty of Westphalia and the Napoleonic Wars.


----------



## daleks_exterminate

I can't find my wedding ring...
Misplaced it no idea. I better not have lost this one like I did the previous one 

Not wearing a ring = accidentally single, right?


----------



## Djairouks

Inside Job said:


> Intelligent people are often caught in a double bind: if you demonstrate a lot of insight into something, you are seen as a snob and arrogant by those around you, which makes you unhappy, at least if you want to be liked - but if you try the passive approach and abandon your native style to fit in, you are denying yourself and will also become unhappy. I am quite open to people who think differently to me, I just expect the same good grace in return.
> 
> Anyway, enough of that - what historical periods and cultures are you most attracted to? Perhaps as a result of being a musician, I've become interested in late17th/18th Century Europe - the time between the Treaty of Westphalia and the Napoleonic Wars.


Yeah not to diss or diminish my friends, but I tend to see that my most uneducated, not curious friends who just take life as it comes, are the ones always in relationships, of course they make up with some other qualities, but yeah that's my experience so far that as I train in martial arts, do photography, play guitar and sing, ride motorcycles, massage and cook pretty often, learn about physics and psycology/phylosophy, some women look at me like I'm an extraterestrial, afraid to say anything to me which is ridiculous as I do all these things, because I'm curious and like learning. 
Or the other extreme like one ex of mine, not being able to see the real man behind all this, putting me on a pedestal for no reason, only to one day realise I'm just a man like many others and be resentfull of her own dellusions.

There are some days where I think "life would be better if I was "dumb" or not interested by many things" I've never talked about this to friends, wonder how they see me and think about all this.
There are even some studies confirming this, saying the higher educated single people, showed the lowest rating of life contentment.


----------



## aware.7

Love is far from bullshit. Love is what makes both distance and time evaporate.

Let me find an inspiring version of this song I’ve been inspired by a signature here to listen today. Oldie, a song that meant and still does, a lot to me. Just a few minutes.

E: ok so here we go:

Passanger - the sound of silence (cover) live @ hmh 

 I wish I had been there myself in that audience on that day.. feeling like missing out p

Vino italiano


----------



## aware.7

@Warm machines.

Don’t just thank my response! Have the courage to restore that dream, dear! )) and if you won’t do it, we will be delighted to inspire you to have a recheck with that one ASAP. ))))

Triple hugzzz!!


----------



## Alice Alipheese

Catwalk said:


> Currently, I like to be always open and on the market. I reckon a large part - is enjoying everything "leading up to" the relationship, but not the actual relationship itself. Also, have a maximization problem in that my last relationships turned into me simply maximizing my poor partners/pushing them too hard impatiently - so my build-a-better-partner impulsions must stop. There is a bit of myself that is "_always looking for better,_" which needs to be sorted out before dragging another specimen into my mess or I will constantly pick at them.
> 
> In other word(s), while I have the capacity for a relationship, I enjoy the games and attention much more - and the freedom to walk away when I am tired of dating someone.
> 
> I also find "happy relationships" off-putting, (&) I reckon that is also something I need work on. I have ended things because they were "too good" ... & can start getting mean if I do not have the proper stimulus. I do not like stagnancy or sameness in any sense.


NTJ women, gotta love the honesty XD Gotta say i agree though, once your in a relationship... whats the point? It just ends being "ok, now what?" 

Part of me still wants one though. 



Catwalk said:


> As _marvelous _as it seems to be "caught" & placed in a freezer for eternity, it is a big yikes reality for me. Reeling each other in & tossing them back is much more fun and humane for the time being.
> 
> 
> 
> This would be great.


soo, at the end o the day, women want a sex robot too? albiet with more personality baked into it. I've entertained the idea for awhile now that the sexes won't be interacting anywhere near as much with the next century or two, there just wont be a need or desire too.


----------



## Catwalk

Alice Alipheese said:


> NTJ women, gotta love the honesty XD Gotta say i agree though, once your in a relationship... whats the point? It just ends being "ok, now what?"
> 
> Part of me still wants one though.
> 
> 
> 
> soo, at the end o the day, women want a sex robot too? albiet with more personality baked into it. I've entertained the idea for awhile now that the sexes won't be interacting anywhere near as much with the next century or two, there just wont be a need or desire too.


My work, studies - expanding my knowledge/learning, and et al always come first. Followed by my other interests. It is the only thing that brings me satisfaction/happiness. A lifelong partnership/marriage/children just does not appeal and will get in the way of that, & I mostly grow tired of those I am even deeply in love with. The person that has desired to marry me - I have no interest in taking it further, & I will end up divorcing later on & it is best to not take that step as the maximizer and impossible to satisfy because I do not want to be satisfied, type of woman I am. We date and see other people in spite of knowing we belong together & will always be together. My boredom problem is result(s) from a lot of mess I have also yet to deal with - mostly my unwillingness to settle & immense fear of satisfaction & 'settling down' somewhere. I find very few males interesting enough to invest in completely. Serial monogamy is fine - but 'long-term monogamy forever' does not appeal.

I plan on keeping my assets within my (blood-born) family & have no other goal(s) other continuing to work, studying until my brain shrivels, & publishing a few books. I was born to study, learn, work and die. I am more excited about writing these book(s) than any marriage or children.

The "fun" in between ... (on the road loneliness..) - a relationship or two, dating, coitus, attention until I am too old to care or desire affection as intensely anymore. Just nothing permanent appeals; sex keeps my baby fever at bay for now. If the "baby fever" outweighs my lack of desire to actually have children/become a mother - I will only go off birth/control + contraceptives by the person I am deeply in love with - but refuse to marry. Unfortunately, kids/marriage is their goal & not mine.


----------



## WarMoose9

Because I recently broke up with my girlfriend and I'm not gonna rush into anything like an idiot.


----------



## Brazenstar12

·Because I don't want to be attached to anybody and rather than focusing on giving "care" to people, begin to focus on myself and develop it, solve my problems in life, focus on future. 

·The second thing is to be totally independent and avoid the negative energy that comes from the people around me.


----------



## jetser

I don't see the point in dating anyone unless I think she's the ONE.


----------



## NIHM

Marvin the Dendroid said:


> Online dating as a female...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...vs. online dating as a male.


Yeah, I must be just doing it wrong then or again I just don't notice it. Though in fairness the one time I was on an online dating site was a scheme my sister set up for me. When I was trying to date my husband before we were married and I moved to Ohio she posted my high school, early college year photos on something called Plenty of Fish ( I think). That site should be referred to as plenty of dicks. All I got were dick pictures. It was not the greatest experience. I highly doubted any of those males actually wanted to date me. I really viewed it as a big joke. 

I'm kind of happy I'm not single. One reason would be I might be horrible at flirting and miss any ques if someone likes me. They might actually have to be "Yo, I like you." And then I might think, what as a friend? Then they might have to come back and state, "No silly I like you as in romantic and adoration." Then my brain might malfunction and go, "Ohh." As I examine that information. I may even be too skittish early in the relationship. 

I don't fall in love easily. It took until I was in my thirties to find that partner that fits with me. Like other ENFPs in the thread, I'm emotionally healthy ( I think), attractive-ish, and independent. Still, it wasn't something I ever rushed into. I didn't mind random crushes, where I try out someone for a couple of weeks to see if they fit but normally I would just move on. If the shoe doesn't fit, I don't force it. I was also never actively looking for it. I would reach out to someone if they intellectually stimulated me but the partner that stuck with me had to actually tell me he was interested before I could see it. Still, once it did, I never wanted to remove that snuggly safe blanket. 

I think there are all types of people in life. Those that require a partner at all times, ones that don't mind the singularity of discovering themselves but also don't mind being in a relationship, and ones that thrive in the space of solitude and perhaps find someone they love. There's no wrong or right way.



Six said:


> Because everything is set and setting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not the girl that's the challenge these days it's the house in a nice place, the good school, the equitable work-life balance and the provision of sufficient financial security for family formation.
> 
> Until that point you've built the platform for a real life and a real relationship which has mileage spending thumb-swiping time on the infinite carousel of paradox of choice is pointless - you're searching for solutions to your own problems in other people, people have their own problems.
> 
> The key is to have solved so many of your own you have surplus ability for someone else, and again, that's harder these days.


Interesting. For clarification are you referring to that you need to be of a higher class to be attractive by a partner? The typical traditional male and female dynamics of an aged society? Plainly speaking the male brings home the bacon?

What if the partner you found had money for stability of a house, bills, and etc? What if they wanted you for your intrigue and stimulated thoughts? I suppose a higher education is needed to capture someone wanting a relationship for academic or scholar incentive. Still there could be someone outside of that bell curve that pleasantly surprised you. An outlier from that data and unique. What if they found you a challenge of random curiosities? What if they simply valued your commonalities and connection? Would you still value that thought process or would you still want to be the breadwinner, even though you might not ever surpass her inherited wealth?



Djairouks said:


> There are some days where I think "life would be better if I was "dumb" or not interested by many things" I've never talked about this to friends, wonder how they see me and think about all this.
> There are even some studies confirming this, saying the higher educated single people, showed the lowest rating of life contentment.


Could you please link those studies. I would like to read them. 

I think I would be classified as an above higher intelligence. My spelling and grammar might be lacking ( I was never fond of technical writing.) I've been tested in other subjects and I might be superior. I might lack the knowledge in musical theory but if I study my brain could correspond it to math and find an interesting harmony and then I would have the will to learn and discover its depths. I would still classify my life with contentment and that I’m very happy with it. If I died tomorrow I wouldn't have the impression I lacked in living. Though comparing my sister to me, she can be content and fall asleep easily even knowing if a tornado was on the horizon so I can slightly see your point. 

Again there is all types of intelligence, I can lack common sense in a scenario and miss the obvious.



Lady of Light said:


>














Phil said:


> Genetics. Ladies only go for the manlets now :crying:


I'm not sure if this is true. Though I do admit a certain height might be a requirement for some but not a deterrent for all. I would rather have a connection than the status of looks. I promise you, you'll find someone who will love all your protection that you provide. 

This is Lee, he's 6'5 and was 450 pounds at the most weight. In his whole life he was never described as small and muscled. I'm sure there is some decent muscle in that frame and I never think of him as weak. If anything he has a lot of confidence. 










This was my best friend Heather, who is 5'4 ( I think) and absolutely adores him. They've been married since 2006?


----------



## Phil

NIHM said:


> I'm not sure if this is true. Though I do admit a certain height might be a requirement for some but not a deterrent for all. I would rather have a connection than the status of looks. I promise you, you'll find someone who will love all your protection that you provide.
> 
> This is Lee, he's 6'5 and was 450 pounds at the most weight. In his whole life he was never described as small and muscled. I'm sure there is some decent muscle in that frame and I never think of him as weak. If anything he has a lot of confidence.


Oh I was being sarcastic, but thank you for everything you just said it made me feel so good about myself! roud:


----------



## NIHM

Phil said:


> Oh I was being sarcastic, but thank you for everything you just said it made me feel so good about myself! roud:


Yeah, life works in mysterious ways. I have two best friends named Heather, they're both ISFJs. Then for one of them to end up marrying my INFJ brother in law. What are those probabilities? Just have confidence, you'll find the one that fits with you. 

Yeah, I normally can't detect sarcasm, it's an inherent flaw in my programming.


----------



## Six

NIHM said:


> Yeah, I must be just doing it wrong then or again I just don't notice it. Though in fairness the one time I was on an online dating site was a scheme my sister set up for me. When I was trying to date my husband before we were married and I moved to Ohio she posted my high school, early college year photos on something called Plenty of Fish ( I think). That site should be referred to as plenty of dicks. All I got were dick pictures. It was not the greatest experience. I highly doubted any of those males actually wanted to date me. I really viewed it as a big joke.
> 
> I'm kind of happy I'm not single. One reason would be I might be horrible at flirting and miss any ques if someone likes me. They might actually have to be "Yo, I like you." And then I might think, what as a friend? Then they might have to come back and state, "No silly I like you as in romantic and adoration." Then my brain might malfunction and go, "Ohh." As I examine that information. I may even be too skittish early in the relationship.
> 
> I don't fall in love easily. It took until I was in my thirties to find that partner that fits with me. Like other ENFPs in the thread, I'm emotionally healthy ( I think), attractive-ish, and independent. Still, it wasn't something I ever rushed into. I didn't mind random crushes, where I try out someone for a couple of weeks to see if they fit but normally I would just move on. If the shoe doesn't fit, I don't force it. I was also never actively looking for it. I would reach out to someone if they intellectually stimulated me but the partner that stuck with me had to actually tell me he was interested before I could see it. Still, once it did, I never wanted to remove that snuggly safe blanket.
> 
> I think there are all types of people in life. Those that require a partner at all times, ones that don't mind the singularity of discovering themselves but also don't mind being in a relationship, and ones that thrive in the space of solitude and perhaps find someone they love. There's no wrong or right way.
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting. For clarification are you referring to that you need to be of a higher class to be attractive by a partner? The typical traditional male and female dynamics of an aged society? Plainly speaking the male brings home the bacon?
> 
> What if the partner you found had money for stability of a house, bills, and etc? What if they wanted you for your intrigue and stimulated thoughts? I suppose a higher education is needed to capture someone wanting a relationship for academic or scholar incentive. Still there could be someone outside of that bell curve that pleasantly surprised you. An outlier from that data and unique. What if they found you a challenge of random curiosities? What if they simply valued your commonalities and connection? Would you still value that thought process or would you still want to be the breadwinner, even though you might not ever surpass her inherited wealth?
> 
> 
> 
> Could you please link those studies. I would like to read them.
> 
> I think I would be classified as an above higher intelligence. My spelling and grammar might be lacking ( I was never fond of technical writing.) I've been tested in other subjects and I might be superior. I might lack the knowledge in musical theory but if I study my brain could correspond it to math and find an interesting harmony and then I would have the will to learn and discover it's depths. I would still classify my life with contentment and that I’m very happy with it. If I died tomorrow I wouldn't have the impression I lacked in living. Though comparing my sister to me, she can be content and fall asleep easily even knowing if a tornado was on the horizon so I can slightly see your point.
> 
> Again there is all types of intelligence, I can lack common sense in a scenario and miss the obvious.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure if this is true. Though I do admit a certain height might be a requirement for some but not a deterrent for all. I would rather have a connection than the status of looks. I promise you, you'll find someone who will love all your protection that you provide.
> 
> This is Lee, he's 6'5 and was 450 pounds at the most weight. In his whole life he was never described as small and muscled. I'm sure there is some decent muscle in that frame and I never think of him as weak. If anything he has a lot of confidence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was my best friend Heather, who is 5'4 ( I think) and absolutely adores him. They've been married since 2006?


I've met all kinds of exceptional women - I'm just speaking in statistical terms here.

If a young heiress fancies me because she finds my brooding, soft, philosophical industriousness appealing and wants to keep me around because I'm pretty and stimulating - I'll take that deal.

I wouldn't mind, I'll do the laundry, change nappies and have a martini ready - seems like an easy life.

In the interim, given those girls are few and far between... I'll do what seems more in line with the field and smile politely if anyone thinks I'm sexist.


----------



## Phil

NIHM said:


> Yeah, life works in mysterious ways. I have two best friends named Heather, they're both ISFJs. Then for one of them to end up marrying my INFJ brother in law. What are those probabilities? Just have confidence, you'll find the one that fits with you.
> 
> Yeah, I normally can't detect sarcasm, it's an inherent flaw in my programming.


Hahaha, one of my favorite episodes!


----------



## NIHM

Six said:


> I've met all kinds of exceptional women - I'm just speaking in statistical terms here.
> 
> If a young heiress fancies me because she finds my brooding, soft, philosophical industriousness appealing and wants to keep me around because I'm pretty and stimulating - I'll take that deal.
> 
> I wouldn't mind, I'll do the laundry, change nappies and *have a martini ready* - seems like an easy life.
> 
> In the interim, given those girls are few and far between... I'll do what seems more in line with the field and smile politely if anyone thinks I'm sexist.


I had a little chuckle to this and thought why not some Wine, Meade, Craft beer, or Bourbon? I'm not sure a Martini would last with a southern debutante belle. We could just make a Bayou Zinger, Old Fashion, or Mint Julep. Our gracious manners and beloved rituals might have missed out on the gin wagon. Though if I really think about it a Dirty Martini might be a good drink every now and then.

Unfortunately, I have to stick with green smoothies for the moment. 

I would detest keeping someone around because they're pretty, pretty can be extremely boring. The problem is for a female like that is to be loved for their personality and not their wealth. 

You are correct in the interim, there could be few and far between. A very unique individual to run across. I still think a female might be able to be the provider or of equal value but I didn't find you sexist. Traditional and a little charming, a smidge of a stereotype but not sexist.



Phil said:


> Hahaha, one of my favorite episodes!


You have no idea how hard I cried at the end of that thing. Like ugly crying with snot.


----------



## Phil

NIHM said:


> You have no idea how hard I cried at the end of that thing. Like ugly crying with snot.


If you're brave enough to admit that then I will be too :crying: :hug:


----------



## Eu_citzen

NIHM said:


> I'm kind of happy I'm not single. One reason would be I might be horrible at flirting and miss any ques if someone likes me. They might actually have to be "Yo, I like you." And then I might think, what as a friend? Then they might have to come back and state, "No silly I like you as in romantic and adoration." Then my brain might malfunction and go, "Ohh." As I examine that information. I may even be too skittish early in the relationship.


Funny enough, I had done a rant about something similar a while ago to a friend. The tropes of "hints", and such things.
In a lot of ways, many people seem to still (mentally) be in their teens. In so far as initiating (potential) romantic connections go.
I'd coin the phrase: "Dorkish cute" about it. 

But still, my general inclination is wondering if there's a maturation process for such things as well.

Edit:

About flirting. I find people have different styles of flirting, I for example love teasing those I love, which can include various forms of shenanigans. 
Others I know are much more subtle about it and slowly insert themselves into the others life. Some banter. 
So it's possible someone isn't bad, per se, just that their particular style of flirting is not recognized by the receiving party.


----------



## NIHM

Eu_citzen said:


> Funny enough, I had done a rant about something similar a while ago to a friend. The tropes of "hints", and such things.
> In a lot of ways, many people seem to still (mentally) be in their teens. In so far as initiating (potential) romantic connections go.
> I'd coin the phrase: "Dorkish cute" about it.
> 
> But still, my general inclination is wondering if there's a maturation process for such things as well.


I don't think that I lack not being mature enough to see it and being mentally in my teens. It's more from the fact that I'm a pretty friendly person. If someone is overly friendly to me I don't automatically assume there is a love interest brewing. I'm also not friends with everyone I'm friendly too. I'm just naturally friendly. I'll have people come up to me and be like buddy old pal, I missed you and I'll blink at them and think "Who are you again?" Just kidding I might recognize their face but their name will be completely lost in a void of tiny Si syndrome. I have this strange brain to remember facts like a lock and permanently put in place for me to retrieve but people's names, nope or remembering where my phone is, nope. Great brain for the SATs, college, and IQ test. Not so great at other things.

You could come up to me in public and scream NIHM, since you know what I look like and I would just blankly stare at you wondering who you are and at first, may not answer to NIHM. Until you introduce yourself as EU-Citizen from personality cafe and even then I might give you a blank stare as the wheels start to turn. Then you would be like INTJ, buddies, and the guy with blue opal as my avatar. Then you would see the Ah-ha moment and I would connect the dots and might even unfashionably hug you in the open crowd, "Going holy shit. What's up, how long are you in town?" Things like you possibly stalking me in real life would take forever to realize but by then we would have had a beer together and I would have been Nah, he's cool. Anyways I've liked our conversations, in my head, you're in this category. In your head, I might be lower. You might be sitting there going what, I made a category. HUH?

Anyways my open friendliness can get very confused with flirting. There's always that random thread in our section. Was the ENFP flirting with me or just being friendly? Because I have that skill it's hard for me to recognize when someone is flirting with me. Don't get me started on the painful process of trying to flirt with people and how awkward I am at it. When I actually do flirt it's very vague. I get painfully shy in that subject. When real feelings get expressed in private I wouldn't even know how to respond. I did recently just read over letters with someone I became interested in this site back in late 2014 and became actually shy just reading them. I was going through deleting old messages of my very small collection of correspondence on this site and it was like oh Mylanta, wow, full-on embarrassed moment. With a slight appreciation that this is better than my writing in public but no it should never see the light of day. Delete. 

In conclusion, I hope I explained that better. If I did not, that’s my current scenario on why I don’t recognize flirting. Also, this Ne/Te thing really over thinks and has a hard time focusing so I can talk myself out of why someone may or may not be flirting with me.


----------



## Necrofantasia

NIHM said:


> That site should be referred to as plenty of dicks. All I got were dick pictures.












Replace the fuzzballs with dick pics...


----------



## NIHM

Necrofantasia said:


> Replace the fuzzballs with dick pics...


----------



## Veggie

I feel so left out. lol. I'm a rare female who actually kinda appreciates dick pics, but I just get a bunch of cheesy pick up lines instead.


----------



## 545769

Probably the two main reasons are 

1. I am a very traditional lady and you can’t find a lot of traditional men unless they are married or +50...or really creepy and they think they are traditional, but they are just their own special kind of human who has in fact, taken traditionalism way too far and has now become...creepy and stalkerish. 

2. I know this is cliche but I’m not looking for a relationship right now. Do I want one? Yes. Am I ready for one? No. I am not healthy enough to lift anyone up in a relationship yet as well as have a family (which I want a family if I’m going to be in a relationship). People (I’m people lol) make the mistake of finding a partner so they can be saved...That usually ends in disaster because someone can help you but when it comes down to it you have to make those choices/steps and save yourself.


----------



## Djairouks

NIHM said:


> Yeah, I must be just doing it wrong then or again I just don't notice it. Though in fairness the one time I was on an online dating site was a scheme my sister set up for me. When I was trying to date my husband before we were married and I moved to Ohio she posted my high school, early college year photos on something called Plenty of Fish ( I think). That site should be referred to as plenty of dicks. All I got were dick pictures. It was not the greatest experience. I highly doubted any of those males actually wanted to date me. I really viewed it as a big joke.
> 
> I'm kind of happy I'm not single. One reason would be I might be horrible at flirting and miss any ques if someone likes me. They might actually have to be "Yo, I like you." And then I might think, what as a friend? Then they might have to come back and state, "No silly I like you as in romantic and adoration." Then my brain might malfunction and go, "Ohh." As I examine that information. I may even be too skittish early in the relationship.
> 
> I don't fall in love easily. It took until I was in my thirties to find that partner that fits with me. Like other ENFPs in the thread, I'm emotionally healthy ( I think), attractive-ish, and independent. Still, it wasn't something I ever rushed into. I didn't mind random crushes, where I try out someone for a couple of weeks to see if they fit but normally I would just move on. If the shoe doesn't fit, I don't force it. I was also never actively looking for it. I would reach out to someone if they intellectually stimulated me but the partner that stuck with me had to actually tell me he was interested before I could see it. Still, once it did, I never wanted to remove that snuggly safe blanket.
> 
> I think there are all types of people in life. Those that require a partner at all times, ones that don't mind the singularity of discovering themselves but also don't mind being in a relationship, and ones that thrive in the space of solitude and perhaps find someone they love. There's no wrong or right way.
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting. For clarification are you referring to that you need to be of a higher class to be attractive by a partner? The typical traditional male and female dynamics of an aged society? Plainly speaking the male brings home the bacon?
> 
> What if the partner you found had money for stability of a house, bills, and etc? What if they wanted you for your intrigue and stimulated thoughts? I suppose a higher education is needed to capture someone wanting a relationship for academic or scholar incentive. Still there could be someone outside of that bell curve that pleasantly surprised you. An outlier from that data and unique. What if they found you a challenge of random curiosities? What if they simply valued your commonalities and connection? Would you still value that thought process or would you still want to be the breadwinner, even though you might not ever surpass her inherited wealth?
> 
> 
> 
> Could you please link those studies. I would like to read them.
> 
> I think I would be classified as an above higher intelligence. My spelling and grammar might be lacking ( I was never fond of technical writing.) I've been tested in other subjects and I might be superior. I might lack the knowledge in musical theory but if I study my brain could correspond it to math and find an interesting harmony and then I would have the will to learn and discover its depths. I would still classify my life with contentment and that I’m very happy with it. If I died tomorrow I wouldn't have the impression I lacked in living. Though comparing my sister to me, she can be content and fall asleep easily even knowing if a tornado was on the horizon so I can slightly see your point.
> 
> Again there is all types of intelligence, I can lack common sense in a scenario and miss the obvious.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure if this is true. Though I do admit a certain height might be a requirement for some but not a deterrent for all. I would rather have a connection than the status of looks. I promise you, you'll find someone who will love all your protection that you provide.
> 
> This is Lee, he's 6'5 and was 450 pounds at the most weight. In his whole life he was never described as small and muscled. I'm sure there is some decent muscle in that frame and I never think of him as weak. If anything he has a lot of confidence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was my best friend Heather, who is 5'4 ( I think) and absolutely adores him. They've been married since 2006?


https://epc2016.princeton.edu/papers/160630

That to me is the most comprehensive study on all matters, that should or not make people happy, it doesn't say directly that the more educated you are, the less happy you are, but there's no correlation to any positive effect either.

http://ftp.iza.org/dp11185.pdf

This one shows they are puzzled about what is really making people happy, as they cannot really find the source, to me if you read it, simply shows when young and smart, you see the challenges to face, then the older you get if you can provide for you familly, because your studies allowed you to have a good job and better income, you feel happier, but it doesn't mean that higher education correlates with hapiness.
Then the biggest caveat, high education doesn't directly equate to being intelligent, I know plenty medical doctors or PHDs in science, that have amazing memory and know lots of things, but as I like to say it "they can't tie their shoelaces alone", they just learned things and it's kind of a binary use of their studies.
They do not have what I call smarts, in the way that you think things through or apply your knowledge in many parts of life, by extrapolating experiences and knowledge, not a hard and fast rule book as they do in medicine if you like.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect

To me the most contributing factor to happiness, being smart, is linked with the Dunning-Kruger effect, the smarter one is the more able one's ability to see their flaws or blindspots, therefore also see other people's and more critically asses the world they live in.
So you can't like my less smart friend, live in a kind of bubble "fantasy world", you will be more critical of most things and more likely not to be the typical in bliss individual that just goes with the flow and never questions much.

So I really think, mostly the smarter you are, the less prone you are to happiness, of course there are variables with the amount of your support group, friends and social interactions that make or break humans.
I have things in my life that drastically improved my happiness, not saying smart people cannot be as happy as less smart ones, it's just a longer travel to get there, exactly as the UK study tends to show.


----------



## Thefabricwhichbleedstruth

In the spirit of never quite knowing how to get on with the opposite sex, I’ll always remain single


----------



## Six

NIHM said:


> I had a little chuckle to this and thought why not some Wine, Meade, Craft beer, or Bourbon? I'm not sure a Martini would last with a southern debutante belle. We could just make a Bayou Zinger, Old Fashion, or Mint Julep. Our gracious manners and beloved rituals might have missed out on the gin wagon. Though if I really think about it a Dirty Martini might be a good drink every now and then.
> 
> Unfortunately, I have to stick with green smoothies for the moment.
> 
> I would detest keeping someone around because they're pretty, pretty can be extremely boring. The problem is for a female like that is to be loved for their personality and not their wealth.
> 
> You are correct in the interim, there could be few and far between. A very unique individual to run across. I still think a female might be able to be the provider or of equal value but I didn't find you sexist. Traditional and a little charming, a smidge of a stereotype but not sexist.
> 
> 
> 
> You have no idea how hard I cried at the end of that thing. Like ugly crying with snot.


Doesn't have to be a martini it could be a cake or I could go down on them for 2 hours while they're watching tv until they cry and/or piss themselves - if it means I get to stay at home wearing sandals then I'm very much up for it.

Sadly saying "I thought I'd just move in with you." isn't exactly a winning ticket to "So what do you do?" So that's something I don't do!


----------



## NIHM

Djairouks said:


> https://epc2016.princeton.edu/papers/160630
> 
> That to me is the most comprehensive study on all matters, that should or not make people happy, it doesn't say directly that the more educated you are, the less happy you are, but there's no correlation to any positive effect either.
> 
> http://ftp.iza.org/dp11185.pdf
> 
> This one shows they are puzzled about what is really making people happy, as they cannot really find the source, to me if you read it, simply shows when young and smart, you see the challenges to face, then the older you get if you can provide for you familly, because your studies allowed you to have a good job and better income, you feel happier, but it doesn't mean that higher education correlates with hapiness.
> Then the biggest caveat, high education doesn't directly equate to being intelligent, I know plenty medical doctors or PHDs in science, that have amazing memory and know lots of things, but as I like to say it "they can't tie their shoelaces alone", they just learned things and it's kind of a binary use of their studies.
> They do not have what I call smarts, in the way that you think things through or apply your knowledge in many parts of life, by extrapolating experiences and knowledge, not a hard and fast rule book as they do in medicine if you like.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect
> 
> To me the most contributing factor to happiness, being smart, is linked with the Dunning-Kruger effect, the smarter one is the more able one's ability to see their flaws or blindspots, therefore also see other people's and more critically asses the world they live in.
> So you can't like my less smart friend, live in a kind of bubble "fantasy world", you will be more critical of most things and more likely not to be the typical in bliss individual that just goes with the flow and never questions much.
> 
> So I really think, mostly the smarter you are, the less prone you are to happiness, of course there are variables with the amount of your support group, friends and social interactions that make or break humans.
> I have things in my life that drastically improved my happiness, not saying smart people cannot be as happy as less smart ones, it's just a longer travel to get there, exactly as the UK study tends to show.


Those were some intriguing reads. I feel the writers concentrated too much on the social subjectivity of happiness and not the hard sciences of chemical reactions in the brain. 

I still did enjoy reading them but I think my favorite paper was from Erich because I liked his use of logistic regression techniques. I'm always a softy when anyone uses a mathematical technique to study empirical data being presented. I am very fond, as you know from our discussion of genetics, that I love predictive analyses and the use of probability models. I think his paper at least soundly enchanted and seized my Ne to explore the article. Though again issues (peer-review), is that he concentrates on the subjective title of happiness being just a psychological construct and he quoted and sited a paper from 2001. I assume outdated information on the effects measuring chemical reactions of hormones and advances discovering the causes of depression within the brain. You can't provide empirical data by cherry-picking a set of outcomes but ignoring other sited papers on the hard sciences of what makes the brain happy. For example, take a genetic disease that disrupts the ability of the body's methylation cycle to finish. There is data of specifically two variants (C677T and A1298C) to cause it. Having one copy of one or one copy of each might not produce the levels of disruption to the cell's ability to use man-made products of folic acid. Having both copies from both parents can greatly affect the child in conception, to birth, and on to growing up. One of those issues could be severe depression in the subject. Simply taking a folate vitamin the body can utilize fixes the issue and shows a strong ability for the patient to not only focus better but no longer be depressed. Taking them and switching to placebos we can see the effects of the disease within one week of removal back to a depressed and paranoid position. This is just that scenario, thus it's not hard to grasp it scientifically the reactive state of the brain's ability to flourish in happiness. It's a dry sentiment but what someone refers to as happiness is just a state of chemicals and hormones being regulated by your body by external stimuli. If you would like I can discuss the effects of serotonin at great depths. 

Taking the subjective stance there are still outliers in the data. I've always had an innate ability to be happy most of my life. Periodically I do go through a darker season. Again I'm pretty certain I have above-average intelligence. My happiness could be that I'm healthy now or it could be because I'm an ENFP. I've noticed even though ENFPs can suffer from depression that most of us stay in a childlike euphoria. We're not naive to the dangers that we face or that the world faces. In fact, I'm quite aware of all our problems, I can see past the curtain and hold it open and stare at the void of negativity to truly see it and try to understand it. However, my brain realizes what's the use of wallowing in it. It certainly won't help my outcome. Our Ne doesn't just explore all the possible happiest outcomes, it can also venture out into the darkness. I think when we express that darker side, people might see it as manipulation painting us into a perception that we're one-dimensional keys of happiness. Which frankly is not the sound logic of a human being's temperament or distinction of our species. In layman's terms that would be a very boring song if only sung in one note. Though as always outliers do exist I give you below a song done in E, though I'm skeptical about the shower scene. 






I could probably push that scenario to not only include one-note but yet one rhythm, beat, or cadence. I mean who wants to listen to a Metronome? I'm sure there are outliers in that sentiment. Speaking about a recurring beep affecting the brain I died laughing at season 6 last night on HBO. Hell, I died laughing when they shot the coffin out and it started orbiting the ship.


----------



## 545769

Djairouks said:


> NIHM said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I must be just doing it wrong then or again I just don't notice it. Though in fairness the one time I was on an online dating site was a scheme my sister set up for me. When I was trying to date my husband before we were married and I moved to Ohio she posted my high school, early college year photos on something called Plenty of Fish ( I think). That site should be referred to as plenty of dicks. All I got were dick pictures. It was not the greatest experience. I highly doubted any of those males actually wanted to date me. I really viewed it as a big joke.
> 
> I'm kind of happy I'm not single. One reason would be I might be horrible at flirting and miss any ques if someone likes me. They might actually have to be "Yo, I like you." And then I might think, what as a friend? Then they might have to come back and state, "No silly I like you as in romantic and adoration." Then my brain might malfunction and go, "Ohh." As I examine that information. I may even be too skittish early in the relationship.
> 
> I don't fall in love easily. It took until I was in my thirties to find that partner that fits with me. Like other ENFPs in the thread, I'm emotionally healthy ( I think), attractive-ish, and independent. Still, it wasn't something I ever rushed into. I didn't mind random crushes, where I try out someone for a couple of weeks to see if they fit but normally I would just move on. If the shoe doesn't fit, I don't force it. I was also never actively looking for it. I would reach out to someone if they intellectually stimulated me but the partner that stuck with me had to actually tell me he was interested before I could see it. Still, once it did, I never wanted to remove that snuggly safe blanket.
> 
> I think there are all types of people in life. Those that require a partner at all times, ones that don't mind the singularity of discovering themselves but also don't mind being in a relationship, and ones that thrive in the space of solitude and perhaps find someone they love. There's no wrong or right way.
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting. For clarification are you referring to that you need to be of a higher class to be attractive by a partner? The typical traditional male and female dynamics of an aged society? Plainly speaking the male brings home the bacon?
> 
> What if the partner you found had money for stability of a house, bills, and etc? What if they wanted you for your intrigue and stimulated thoughts? I suppose a higher education is needed to capture someone wanting a relationship for academic or scholar incentive. Still there could be someone outside of that bell curve that pleasantly surprised you. An outlier from that data and unique. What if they found you a challenge of random curiosities? What if they simply valued your commonalities and connection? Would you still value that thought process or would you still want to be the breadwinner, even though you might not ever surpass her inherited wealth?
> 
> 
> 
> Could you please link those studies. I would like to read them.
> 
> I think I would be classified as an above higher intelligence. My spelling and grammar might be lacking ( I was never fond of technical writing.) I've been tested in other subjects and I might be superior. I might lack the knowledge in musical theory but if I study my brain could correspond it to math and find an interesting harmony and then I would have the will to learn and discover its depths. I would still classify my life with contentment and that I’m very happy with it. If I died tomorrow I wouldn't have the impression I lacked in living. Though comparing my sister to me, she can be content and fall asleep easily even knowing if a tornado was on the horizon so I can slightly see your point.
> 
> Again there is all types of intelligence, I can lack common sense in a scenario and miss the obvious.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure if this is true. Though I do admit a certain height might be a requirement for some but not a deterrent for all. I would rather have a connection than the status of looks. I promise you, you'll find someone who will love all your protection that you provide.
> 
> This is Lee, he's 6'5 and was 450 pounds at the most weight. In his whole life he was never described as small and muscled. I'm sure there is some decent muscle in that frame and I never think of him as weak. If anything he has a lot of confidence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was my best friend Heather, who is 5'4 ( I think) and absolutely adores him. They've been married since 2006?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://epc2016.princeton.edu/papers/160630
> 
> That to me is the most comprehensive study on all matters, that should or not make people happy, it doesn't say directly that the more educated you are, the less happy you are, but there's no correlation to any positive effect either.
> 
> http://ftp.iza.org/dp11185.pdf
> 
> This one shows they are puzzled about what is really making people happy, as they cannot really find the source, to me if you read it, simply shows when young and smart, you see the challenges to face, then the older you get if you can provide for you familly, because your studies allowed you to have a good job and better income, you feel happier, but it doesn't mean that higher education correlates with hapiness.
> Then the biggest caveat, high education doesn't directly equate to being intelligent, I know plenty medical doctors or PHDs in science, that have amazing memory and know lots of things, but as I like to say it "they can't tie their shoelaces alone", they just learned things and it's kind of a binary use of their studies.
> They do not have what I call smarts, in the way that you think things through or apply your knowledge in many parts of life, by extrapolating experiences and knowledge, not a hard and fast rule book as they do in medicine if you like.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect
> 
> To me the most contributing factor to happiness, being smart, is linked with the Dunning-Kruger effect, the smarter one is the more able one's ability to see their flaws or blindspots, therefore also see other people's and more critically asses the world they live in.
> So you can't like my less smart friend, live in a kind of bubble "fantasy world", you will be more critical of most things and more likely not to be the typical in bliss individual that just goes with the flow and never questions much.
> 
> So I really think, mostly the smarter you are, the less prone you are to happiness, of course there are variables with the amount of your support group, friends and social interactions that make or break humans.
> I have things in my life that drastically improved my happiness, not saying smart people cannot be as happy as less smart ones, it's just a longer travel to get there, exactly as the UK study tends to show.
Click to expand...

So would this go along the lines of why philosophers and thinkers (even melancholy musicians) fall into depression easier? Because they see everything around them in greater detail?

Because personally, I am one of the most analytical people of myself and of the world around me and I have had to choose between dwelling entirely on all the bad or see all of the good. For my own mental safety I had to put myself in a life bubble so that I don’t really know what’s going on so I can be happy. I actually don’t even watch the news or follow politics anymore. (I’m still very political but I have to stay away from the outer world of politics for my own sanity) I’m very capable of seeing everything around me, but I’ve had to force myself to be “simpler” if that’s what you’d want to call it. I barely watch movies or listen to music that isn’t “fluffy.” And that’s not me at all, but it’s someone I’ve had to become to survive. But I know a lot of (potentially smart) people who have naturally put themselves in that bubble...but not as a thought out choice, and they don’t even know they are in it, but they’ve shut everything out, even to their own faults. Mind numbed themselves. Wrapped themselves in an oblivion. 

Do you see a correlation?


----------



## Fennel

Because I suck.


----------



## NIHM

Sweet but Psycho said:


> So would this go along the lines of why philosophers and thinkers (even melancholy musicians) fall into depression easier? Because they see everything around them in greater detail?
> 
> Because personally, I am one of the most analytical people of myself and of the world around me and I have had to choose between dwelling entirely on all the bad or see all of the good. For my own mental safety I had to put myself in a life bubble so that I don’t really know what’s going on so I can be happy. I actually don’t even watch the news or follow politics anymore. (I’m still very political but I have to stay away from the outer world of politics for my own sanity) I’m very capable of seeing everything around me, but I’ve had to force myself to be “simpler” if that’s what you’d want to call it. I barely watch movies or listen to music that isn’t “fluffy.” And that’s not me at all, but it’s someone I’ve had to become to survive. But I know a lot of (potentially smart) people who have naturally put themselves in that bubble...but not as a thought out choice, and they don’t even know they are in it, but they’ve shut everything out, even to their own faults. Mind numbed themselves. Wrapped themselves in an oblivion.
> 
> Do you see a correlation?


As for me, I don't allow seeing behind the current to bother me much. I can, however, relate to the current news and I can see how it would depress an individual and how that would kick off a reaction for isolation. It's your fear mechanism. I mean stress is a real variable we can study in the body. Everyone reacts differently to stressors whether they see in great detail or not. You can have philosophers and thinkers throughout the MBTI types. What you're doing if it's helping you cope, I feel is a healthy reaction to the adrenal gland. Most people narrow it down into fight or flight response, which there is some truth to the saying. Your response is flight, again completely normal perimeter reaction for an animal to make. Again I understand, knowing the current outline that our planet is taking but again somehow it doesn't stress me. I look at it as a puzzle or challenge and how can I manage my world and fix the issue at hand. Again, pointing out that not every being will react to a scenario in the same way. 

Btw I did go through something similar to what you're speaking about, a full panic attack when I was twenty-eight. My mother actually gave me great remedies. Reading a light-hearted novel, avoiding negativity. I did eventually heal. Chamomile tea or soothing St John's Wort Tincture ( a mild sedative for panic attacks). It has been scientifically (peer-reviewed) to help with anxiety and panic attacks. I can share a recipe for it plus pictures of it in the wild if you wish to craft the medicine. Also, I can't stress this enough, but compression holds whether it's a long strong hug or compression blanket does wonders to lower stress levels in the body.


----------



## Crowbo

Because all my life, I've lived in a rural area where not only have my options been limited but I'm also so different from nearly everyone else around me and because of that I've yet to find an individual that I truly click with on a romantic level. 

Hopefully this changes after I move out. I've got a good feeling that the 2020s will be different.


----------



## Eu_citzen

NIHM said:


> I don't think that I lack not being mature enough to see it and being mentally in my teens. It's more from the fact that I'm a pretty friendly person. If someone is overly friendly to me I don't automatically assume there is a love interest brewing. I'm also not friends with everyone I'm friendly too. I'm just naturally friendly. I'll have people come up to me and be like buddy old pal, I missed you and I'll blink at them and think "Who are you again?" Just kidding I might recognize their face but their name will be completely lost in a void of tiny Si syndrome. I have this strange brain to remember facts like a lock and permanently put in place for me to retrieve but people's names, nope or remembering where my phone is, nope. Great brain for the SATs, college, and IQ test. Not so great at other things.
> 
> You could come up to me in public and scream NIHM, since you know what I look like and I would just blankly stare at you wondering who you are and at first, may not answer to NIHM. Until you introduce yourself as EU-Citizen from personality cafe and even then I might give you a blank stare as the wheels start to turn. Then you would be like INTJ, buddies, and the guy with blue opal as my avatar. Then you would see the Ah-ha moment and I would connect the dots and might even unfashionably hug you in the open crowd, "Going holy shit. What's up, how long are you in town?" Things like you possibly stalking me in real life would take forever to realize but by then we would have had a beer together and I would have been Nah, he's cool. Anyways I've liked our conversations, in my head, you're in this category. In your head, I might be lower. You might be sitting there going what, I made a category. HUH?
> 
> Anyways my open friendliness can get very confused with flirting. There's always that random thread in our section. Was the ENFP flirting with me or just being friendly? Because I have that skill it's hard for me to recognize when someone is flirting with me. Don't get me started on the painful process of trying to flirt with people and how awkward I am at it. When I actually do flirt it's very vague. I get painfully shy in that subject. When real feelings get expressed in private I wouldn't even know how to respond. I did recently just read over letters with someone I became interested in this site back in late 2014 and became actually shy just reading them. I was going through deleting old messages of my very small collection of correspondence on this site and it was like oh Mylanta, wow, full-on embarrassed moment. With a slight appreciation that this is better than my writing in public but no it should never see the light of day. Delete.
> 
> In conclusion, I hope I explained that better. If I did not, that’s my current scenario on why I don’t recognize flirting. Also, this Ne/Te thing really over thinks and has a hard time focusing so I can talk myself out of why someone may or may not be flirting with me.


Ah, maybe I phrased it poorly. (that was my "_too short on words, week-night philosophy session_")
I didn't mean to imply you do, I was more so speaking philosophically on the maturation thing. About no one in particular.
More so, in the likes of, is that even a thing?

I'd probably think you look familiar if we met in public. But would be unlikely to be able to draw the PersonalityCafe and NIHM parallel.
I'm actually pretty terrible at remembering people.:laughing: (My mind is usually elsewhere anyway, doesn't help)
You're actually one of those I hold in high regards. You're often insightful, which I appreciate.

But that said, I haven't really placed you into a category yet. 
Tend to take an ample amount of time before I place someone in a category, if I place them in one.


----------



## Djairouks

Sweet but Psycho said:


> So would this go along the lines of why philosophers and thinkers (even melancholy musicians) fall into depression easier? Because they see everything around them in greater detail?
> 
> Because personally, I am one of the most analytical people of myself and of the world around me and I have had to choose between dwelling entirely on all the bad or see all of the good. For my own mental safety I had to put myself in a life bubble so that I don’t really know what’s going on so I can be happy. I actually don’t even watch the news or follow politics anymore. (I’m still very political but I have to stay away from the outer world of politics for my own sanity) I’m very capable of seeing everything around me, but I’ve had to force myself to be “simpler” if that’s what you’d want to call it. I barely watch movies or listen to music that isn’t “fluffy.” And that’s not me at all, but it’s someone I’ve had to become to survive. But I know a lot of (potentially smart) people who have naturally put themselves in that bubble...but not as a thought out choice, and they don’t even know they are in it, but they’ve shut everything out, even to their own faults. Mind numbed themselves. Wrapped themselves in an oblivion.
> 
> Do you see a correlation?


I wouldn't necesseraly conflate all this with philosophers and thinkers, as it's kind of their job/function to look at the world, are all philosophers really smart, I don't think so, will they all get depressed, not really as I said it is more complicated overall but if you really are pragmatic and have empathy, watching what our society is becoming isn't going to make you very optimistic for sure.

As for your explanation I completely understand, when I was a teen I was friendly with anyone and thought everyone extended the same mentality in life, after being bullied several times, made fun of for being the skinniest guy of the school, I became very shy and having always been analytic I had to come to the realization that other kids sucked, that you couldn't be all out there because you'd get abused.
So I created my own bubble not to be in bad situations anymore to shield me from it, but it is a totally different thing than the bubble I was talking about, with my less educated friend, he's always been in his little bubble, not out of self preservation like me, but from what I see a lack of awareness how people perceive him and although he's a good person, he is oblivious to other people's challenges and doesn't really understand when we his friends are annoyed with him being this oblivious.
So your and my case comes from life experience hitting us, because of realism and analytical mind you do what is needed to preserve yourself, that's a basic human need, while my argument is less smart or analytical people, do not have this awareness and so do not get stung by life as much, they don't dwell on it if it happens either, but they stay in this different bubble because they can't really see another way lacking the awareness and hindsight to expend their perceptions further.

As the saying goes, "ignorance is bliss" that's really all it is !

Fortunately in my case I was thrown out of my protective bubble, when taking a job position as after sales guy, I suddenly needed to travel alone and face customers, to keep them happy and hardware functional, so social interaction and tense ones were inevitable, I needed to adapt quickly which vastly improved my character !
Again it's life experience that pushed me, but if you lack self awareness which for me is part of being smart, you won't do anything with the experiences and sty in your bubble.


@NIHM The part about methylation was very interesting thanks, I am convinced many mental issues come from many factors, chemical imbalances in the body, even to an extent nutrients we take, made worse by our industrial foods nowadays, there are even russian scientists after the 2nd war, that researched nutrition and fasting effects, they realized fasting could alleviate mental symptoms in many patients, some even showing complete loss of symptoms after 2 weeks of controlled fasting. It makes sense as our metabolism was developed as hunter gatherers, eating all the time isn't that good our biology didn't change that much in thousands of years.
But I don't really see what a few exceptions say about the meaningfullness of all "normal" people's happiness assessment, although that's what the first study showed overwhelmingly, that people in health are happier.

It's funny I see some patterns I saw in my ENFP ex, she was working on cancer research and also kind of this giddy character, which could also be quite her blindspot sometimes, I am pretty interested in your knowledge, but I think we might be derailing the thread roud:.


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## daleks_exterminate

Because Kronos ate my husband. It was horrifying. I went to Crete to find Zeus and told him what happened. I had to convince 
Metis to let me talk to him. When I did I had to convince Zeus to finally kill his father. Gaea was screaming for her children also, but I didn't know where she was. It was a terrible, disembodied groaning. Zeus told me he was going to get my husband and the rest of his siblings back and left Crete.

That's about the time I woke up and despite it all seeming so real, around 5 mins later I realized that my husband wasn't eaten by a Titan and that was a weird ass dream.


----------



## Kaznos

daleks_exterminate said:


> Because Kronos ate my husband. It was horrifying. I went to Crete to find Zeus and told him what happened. I had to convince
> Metis to let me talk to him. When I did I had to convince Zeus to finally kill his father. Gaea was screaming for her children also, but I didn't know where she was. It was a terrible, disembodied groaning. Zeus told me he was going to get my husband and the rest of his siblings back and left Crete.
> 
> That's about the time I woke up and despite it all seeming so real, around 5 mins later I realized that my husband wasn't eaten by a Titan and that was a weird ass dream.


Maybe this is the dream and your husband was really eaten by a titan.


----------



## daleks_exterminate

Kaznos said:


> Maybe this is the dream and your husband was really eaten by a titan.


There are less cool ways to die. Unfortunately, I'd have to go get myself eaten also so that we could be together and that just sounds horrible. Kronos also ate Hades so I guess we could have some interesting conversations while waiting for Zeus to do something about it, but I quite like not being in a digestive tract.


----------



## Crowbo

Because being single is the most practical and logical path for me right now. Especially during a pandemic.


----------



## islandlight

Asking myself this question, and looking back over my life.... 

Most of my romantic partners didn't actually like me. They either wanted something else (e.g., movie star looks) or accused me of things I wouldn't dream of doing (e.g., cheating).

Now I'm old, and I live in a relatively isolated location, so those factors make it difficult too.


----------



## Electra

Because I'm picky and I don't want to jump to bed with people I don't know and when I have been on dating sites those are the feedback I most often got, so I gave it up, at least for the moment. I got messeges such as "I bet you are a spooner" or, "are you hungry for some xxx" , "You know that all the people on this dating site are just after xxx, right"? (WHich was not true) or a picture of someones noble parts and I just felt so sick that I went out of the dating sites because it felt degrading and humiliating to get such responses. I could go on about it but I think I'll stop there. There were also some creepy feedback that seemed questionable like people saying "I love you hunny, lets get married" as their first messege to me ever (at least I can't blame them for being skeptic or too negative, lol). I found those dating sites crushed my self esteem so in order to stay sane I left them. Now I feel a lot better, but ofcourse I still miss romance. But not for any price!


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## WickerDeer

I am just starting to become a mildly...gosh, I can't even say "successful" because that doesn't fit at all...a mildly acceptable? A mildly proficient person? ...That's not even accurate.

I mean, I've been struggling with issues and I'm just starting to fix some of them and also start achieving some of my motivations.

And I still haven't achieved most of what I'd like to.

So I feel like I'm not ready right now for anything. I also dislike dating sites and it's not easy to find my soul mate apparently, while sitting alone in my house all day long.

So I need to keep working on myself and go with what I've gotten done. I don't want to undo myself.

@Electra dating sites can be so stressful!


----------



## Electra

WickerDeer said:


> I am just starting to become a mildly...gosh, I can't even say "successful" because that doesn't fit at all...a mildly acceptable? A mildly proficient person? ...I mean, that's not even accurate.
> 
> I mean, I've been struggling with issues and I'm just starting to fix some of them and also start achieving some of my motivations.
> 
> And I still haven't achieved most of what I'd like to.
> 
> So I feel like I'm not ready right now for anything. I also dislike dating sites and it's not easy to find my soul mate apparently, while sitting alone in my house all day long.
> 
> So I need to keep working on myself and go with what I've gotten done. I don't want to undo myself.
> 
> @Electra dating sites can be so stressful!


Hehehe, I know the feeling  It's like that even more now thanks to corona, but I guess that is good because if you are alone you have more time to introvert and discover your self so to speak. I also work on some issues, for example I have problems saying no (I do say no to my child though) and set strict limits for strangers like sales people (I went to an assertiveness course some time ago), and I work on that in art therapy. But not now, though, because x-mas. But it is a really good idea to manage your self and be independent and comfortable with your self before dating others!


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## WickerDeer

Electra said:


> Hehehe, I know the feeling  It's like that even more now thanks to corona, but I guess that is good because if you are alone you have more time to introvert and discover your self so to speak. I also work on some issues, for example I have problems saying no (I do say no to my child though) and set strict limits for strangers like sales people (I went to an assertiveness course some time ago), and I work on that in art therapy. But not now, though, because x-mas. But it is a really good idea to manage your self and be independent and comfortable with your self before dating others!


Yeah, I was thinking of how "being proficient as a person" (in context of dating) probably means so many different things to different people. But I think I just want to feel like I have more control in my life.

So for me it is like I am starting to find the reasons I want to survive (other than only taking care of others). And I think that being happier will eventually make me able to contribute more in a relationship--certainly to find a relationship that makes me happy and works with that happiness (if I'm already happier in my life), and also probably make me stronger and more able to assert boundaries--like you said, because I think the happier one is the better they'll know what they do want or what to say no to.

But I don't really know...I'm just trying to feel out a good pace for what needs to change in my life, and it's been a process of evaluation and experimenting to even figure out how to do that--and how to make it work. lol

Setting boundaries is so important though--I think so many people can become better at it (myself as well). I am working on exploring things I am passionate about again and also working on my health right now--it's been 18 days since I quit drinking and with that comes a sort of new relationship with my body and physical environment that takes time--I think. Like having healthy sleep routines and taking care of nutrition and general wellness stuff. I'm definitely in some kind of limbo in my life, but it's where I need to be right now.

It is really nice to have time to introvert and heal and introspect--seems like winter lends itself to that with the longer nights too. It's also so important to take time to prioritize one's self, especially when you're a parent. Using dating sites can be fun though when you are ready.

I am really grateful to have this time right now to work on myself.


----------



## Ewok City

WickerDeer said:


> I am really grateful to have this time right now to work on myself.


I agree with this point! 

Currently working on improving myself to prepare for the right one when she comes to my life.


----------



## WickerDeer

Ewok City said:


> I agree with this point!
> 
> Currently working on improving myself to prepare for the right one when she comes to my life.


I think that's a great idea!

Here, I'm going to also say, in a devil's advocate kind of way (because I know some of us can take it too far--I can), that there are limits to isolation and solitude, and that relationships and love can be really helpful and cathartic too--so it's not a hard-fast rule (or I don't know that rule). 

It's like a balance of both is needed.

----
It can be hard because relationships can sometimes help inspire one to work on one's self. They can also be supportive for that--like being in love can help you move through things you need to heal.

I really wouldn't have been able to quit drinking, at least not at the times I did, without the support of important relationships. And that is a bit scary to me because I prefer to think I should be able to do everything on my own. Love and caring relationships can be great catalysts for positive change though imo. But friends and family and idk...maybe pets or counselors can also be healthy relationships that can strengthen your ability to make necessary changes that you want to make.

So just wanted to mention that the idea that you must be alone until you "fix" yourself can also be unhealthy at times...it just depends. Because I've also been there many times--self isolating, which isn't always what someone needs.

But I also find that it's easier to "work on myself" when it's something I actually am excited about working on--something that's been important to me (even if not important to anyone else really). So I find that more motivating than like, being miserable and then being like "I must change X about myself for someone else I haven't met yet." So, perhaps it's the importance of love even in the form of self love or love of life, which sometimes we put to the side for other people...or they can even be cultivated by healthy relationships (self-love and love-of-life).
-----


----------



## Ewok City

WickerDeer said:


> there are limits to isolation and solitude, and that relationships and love can be really helpful and cathartic too


I agree! I think the telltale sign that you've reached the limits of your isolation is independence. As in, you don't depend on others for happiness anymore, you're able to find it yourself. 



WickerDeer said:


> So just wanted to mention that the idea that you must be alone until you "fix" yourself can also be unhealthy at times...it just depends.


Yeah, at the end of the day, it depends I guess. It's quite risky to just passively wait for someone to come to your life. 

Some people that I know believe that all their problems will be solved the moment they met the right one. I always tell them, "instead of trying to find the right one, why not focus to be the right one instead?" Well.... Some of them didn't take that advice well. 😅


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## BenevolentBitterBleeding

Relationships with rivals or enemies might also help us become motivated to change for the better...

too thin
bad kisser


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## Electra

I sometimes make dinner at 02:51...in the night🤫


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## majogutierrez99

IDK.. I think I'm single because I want to and I reject everybody.


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## majogutierrez99

majogutierrez99 said:


> IDK.. I think I'm single because I want to and I reject everybody.


Like... With my face... I don't even have to say anything.. I'm like 🙄 go away. WHY!! I don't know why I am like this :v


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## krukrukrukikru

because it's easier for me to deal with the mechanics of Hearts of Iron IV than dealing with people! I have a hard time relating and maintaining a stable relationship! I think human beings are too complex for me, sometimes I consider dating a robot!

Why?

A robot will never cheat on me with another man!

A robot will always be affectionate and attentive to me

A robot will never judge me by appearance

As it is a robot, I can program it with a personality and beliefs compatible with mine!

Besides, a robot never rejected me or abandoned me!


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## majogutierrez99

krukrukrukikru said:


> because it's easier for me to deal with the mechanics of Hearts of Iron IV than dealing with people! I have a hard time relating and maintaining a stable relationship! I think human beings are too complex for me, sometimes I consider dating a robot!
> 
> Why?
> 
> A robot will never cheat on me with another man!
> 
> A robot will always be affectionate and attentive to me
> 
> A robot will never judge me by appearance
> 
> As it is a robot, I can program it with a personality and beliefs compatible with mine!
> 
> Besides, a robot never rejected me or abandoned me!


:O


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## Electra

krukrukrukikru said:


> because it's easier for me to deal with the mechanics of Hearts of Iron IV than dealing with people! I have a hard time relating and maintaining a stable relationship! I think human beings are too complex for me, sometimes I consider dating a robot!
> 
> Why?
> 
> A robot will never cheat on me with another man!
> 
> A robot will always be affectionate and attentive to me
> 
> A robot will never judge me by appearance
> 
> As it is a robot, I can program it with a personality and beliefs compatible with mine!
> 
> Besides, a robot never rejected me or abandoned me!


Don't you find NPCs boring and predictable? Even if they randomize their behaviour, sooner or later they will repeat the actions...and it all seems fake. So fare.


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## Electra

majogutierrez99 said:


> Like... With my face... I don't even have to say anything.. I'm like 🙄 go away. WHY!! I don't know why I am like this :v


I am the same way. A few days ago I was in a mall and a guy smiled very warm to me for a long time, just standing there staring but I got so shocked that I just looked down and ran off lol. It was good though because I wasn't into him and I don't like to give the wrong impression. But even if I was interested I would just have done the same thing XD


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## krukrukrukikru

Electra said:


> Don't you find NPCs boring and predictable? Even if they randomize their behaviour, sooner or later they will repeat the actions...and it all seems fake. So fare.


I actually think NPCs are stupid ... They all think the same, dress in the same clothes, like the same things, have the same opinions, only think about sensory pleasure and material goods, and do not understand my ideas, etc. ...


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## Electra

krukrukrukikru said:


> I actually think NPCs are stupid ... They all think the same, dress in the same clothes, like the same things, have the same opinions, only think about sensory pleasure and material goods, and do not understand my ideas, etc. ...


I think I would hate to have a robot for a bf. if only for that reason. Now imagen them also rust away lol 😳


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## 546407

I never really cared about having that kind of partner. I fell for girls but never wanted them to be my girlfriends. I was more into contemplate them and secretly admire them. Creepy I know.


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## Electra

Arturo said:


> I never really cared about having that kind of partner. I fell for girls but never wanted them to be my girlfriends. I was more into contemplate them and secretly admire them. Creepy I know.


I can't relate at all to not wanting to have a partner but very sweet and probably you have less relationships issues in your life to worry about lol. Not to mention the horrors of dating :S


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## krukrukrukikru

Arturo said:


> I never really cared about having that kind of partner. I fell for girls but never wanted them to be my girlfriends. I was more into contemplate them and secretly admire them. Creepy I know.


I also wanted to be like this, not wanting to have a girlfriend ... But something forces me to want, it's like trying to be loved was a basic need of mine ....


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## WickerDeer

majogutierrez99 said:


> Like... With my face... I don't even have to say anything.. I'm like 🙄 go away. WHY!! I don't know why I am like this :v


 

You have to flirt

like this:


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## Electra

WickerDeer said:


> You have to flirt
> 
> like this:


If I was to flirt I would blush, stutter say crazy stuff and accidently walk into a wall within 30 sec.


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## 546407

krukrukrukikru said:


> I also wanted to be like this, not wanting to have a girlfriend ... But something forces me to want, it's like trying to be loved was a basic need of mine ....


I feel like I need to say something in respond, but having nothing useful to say. There is just a lot of ruckus about romantic relationships that I do not understand. Maybe is just that, maybe people need to stop overreacting to this issue and just relax. If someone likes you and you like that someone then what else is to be said?


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## majogutierrez99

Electra said:


> I think I would hate to have a robot for a bf. if only for that reason. Now imagen them also rust away lol 😳


me neither, i would be desperated


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## majogutierrez99

Arturo said:


> I never really cared about having that kind of partner. I fell for girls but never wanted them to be my girlfriends. I was more into contemplate them and secretly admire them. Creepy I know.


:v


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## majogutierrez99

WickerDeer said:


> You have to flirt
> 
> like this:


i cringed xd


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## majogutierrez99

WickerDeer said:


> You have to flirt
> 
> like this:


i flirt few times... just when someone i could be interested in. Besides that... i'll have the go-away face


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## Crowbo

Because I'm so good looking and intelligent and that combination can come off as intimidating to some.


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## Zster

Because my husband died and I have since discovered that a lackluster relationship is MUCH worse than going solo. Also, since I’d rather not settle for someone who is not as attractive to me, that renders me pretty darned toxic to others. I abhor hurting people and so find it preferable to avoid romantic entanglements altogether. 

(It’s possible that my being at a later stage in life affects my answer. I’ve been married, raised kids, and generally no longer feel much biological or social pressure to pair up, though folks around me would “sure feel a lot better if I would just remarry.”) 🙄


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## IDontThinkSo

Because I find most faces and minds are unexciting.


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## ImpossibleHunt

I personally would like to be able to be in a better position in life than I am right now. I've been asked out numerous times, but I feel like I wouldn't do a good enough job. 
At this point, I'm 22 years old, and I haven't been out on a single date. During high school, I used to get asked out every so often. 
But at the time, I was dealing with several personal issues, and I didn't want anyone else getting involved in that mess. It was difficult for me alone to deal with. 
I personally coped with it by just purely focusing on what I was doing at school, and just getting through the day with as little issue as possible. I preferred to keep to myself. 

During college, I also got asked out a few times. 
But I was forced to work and go to school at the same time (after loaning scholarship money to my father in order to pay off his loan sharks). 
I was low on income, so I felt I wouldn't be able to dedicate enough time to that person in order to make them happy. 
As time went on, I had to work more and more in order to pay for my schooling, and take less and less courses. I started seeing people less regularly. 
I then eventually dropped out of college due to my frustration towards the university, so I'm at a bit of a crossroads in my life at the moment. 

I'm planning to make 2021 a productive year though, and I've given the upcoming year a fair bit of thought.
Hopefully by the year is out, I'll have a good job, decent car to get around in, and a nice apartment to live in once again. 
I'm going to study insurance. It's not really a particularly exciting subject, but I think it can serve as a steady job that makes decent money, and then I can focus on other aspects of my life. 
Maybe once I'm in a more stable situation, I can focus on writing things on the side as well. I just want to have my life put together.

I recognize that this drive to be "perfect" stems from insecurity, but that's an impulse I have a hard time shaking. 
I spent a long time getting dragged through the dirt based on someone else's poor decisions. 
I don't want that fate for anyone else.

But I also notice that I have notoriously high standards too. With every person I come across, my mind automatically picks out the flaws in that person's behaviour. 
I then usually use that (and my own personal incompatibility) to subconsciously justify not seeing someone further. I realize it isn't fair, since we all have flaws. But that's just how my brain works. 

The last thing I want to do is drag a girl through the mud with me. If I can avoid getting people hurt in my problems, that's the way I'd rather go.


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## Worriedfunction

Easy: I am a huge fucking loser. Not looking for sympathy or anything else, but self-deception can only carry you so far.

I have failed in every area of my life, despite continuing to carry on and attempt to learn from my many mistakes and failures.

There is one advantage, however: it makes me approachable. People are much more relaxed around you when they know you are no threat to their position, in contexts of any kind of hierarchy. But of course, it also causes enormous amounts of disgust and hatred as well.
Frankly, I don't want to ruin someone else's life by them being unfortunate enough to find me attractive in some way, and the emotionally parasitic relationship I believe that it would turn into. Fortunately, this is highly unlikely to happen.

So, for me, hope is dead (for now) but strife isn't, and struggling is what I'm left with.

Obviously, all status is comparative, so I think there should be a fair amount of "at least I'm not that fella" to tide others over with.

PS: There is no better aphrodisiac than confidence, and it doesn't even have to be genuine or based on truth, it's why the same narrative of the charming, charismatic, abuser keeps replaying over and over.


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## cosmoetic

Both. Haven’t found the right person. Some people gave me a hard time about being single or not going to dances in high school. But hey, I’d rather be single and happy than taken and miserable. Single from the womb to the tomb.


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## eeo

Introvertia said:


> As a bottomless pit, I crave for a relationship, but not enough to adjust.


Same.

Haven't met anyone to feel completely myself with either. Don't want to settle or be settled for.


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## Vasiliev

Because I offend most people with my very presence.


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## Electra

Vasiliev said:


> Because I offend most people with my very presence.


You are honest 😄


----------



## Vasiliev

I try.


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## Glittris

Not enough tomboys out there...

To be frank, I am not interested. Although I am picky and a bit of seeing myself as a prize, I am also not even sure why I should put effort into a partner while I have almost a full schedule of work already. I actually do not have a schedule, but I always have new ideas, but little room for someone else in my life.


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## B3LIAL

Emotionally unavailable, socially isolated/anti-social, complicated, still resolving my issues.


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## Flabarac Brupip

Because most women don't interest me and I don't interest most women.


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## Sybow

I already answered earlier and could edit it but its quite buried here.

So i'll just put it here.

I suck in relationships in general. I dont feel the urge to stay connected over the days.
I have a big problem with opening up with emotions. I have never learned how to talk about them or whatsoever.
The relationships I've had in my family were almost not there. My mom used to work in night and slept at daytime. My dad was at work at daytime. The only one who actually cared for me those days was my grandma, who sadly, passed away.

I cannot open up in a healthy way. Any drama and/or emotional explosion makes me run.
If someone texts me a full page, my brain goes into panic mode, thinking something is horribly wrong inmediatly.
I only once tried to take action to a former crush of mines, she rejected me. 
This was the only try I ever did. 

I did have 2 relationships. One of 9 months (first relationship) and one that went on and off for over 5 years.

I just feel like my trust has been broken so many times, that the only one that i truelly trust, is just me.


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## Dalien

I don’t have the energy anymore. Plus, I’ve not met someone that is willing to be low key.


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## Ewok City

Because I put my career first, my parents second, and my partner third. Depending on the situation, my best friends might also temporarily take over the third place. 

Nobody that I have ever met is fine with it, and yet I have no plans of changing my stance on this.


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## NipNip

Because I'm in ...


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## 556155

Because my fwb doesn't want to officialize ...


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