# Do Perfect Grades matter as much as we think they do?



## Cal (Sep 29, 2017)

Description:


> Research shows that chasing after perfect grades discourages creativity and reduces academic risk taking. Here's why good grades don't always translate into success in life.


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## Monadnock (May 27, 2017)

When I got into college, I set this goal briefly for myself that I was going to graduate Summa Cum Laude (highest GPA honors that you can receive) but then I changed my mind when I realized: what would the point of it be? Would it indicate I had learned more than my classmates? Would I get a monetary prize out of it? What exactly does not having a high GPA prevent a person from doing in life? ...I can't think of anything, and because of that, I deem the whole grading system essentially worthless.


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## chad86tsi (Dec 27, 2016)

Only a good idea when you have plans that involve a measure of those grades later. Say you are undergrad and want to get into a grad program, getting the "best" grades possible greatly increases options. Some employers look at grades too, I live near Intel in Oregon and see lots of engineering intern programs and full time placement positions that cite minimm GPA's.

Other than that, no, they probably aren't worth focusing on. I didn't focus on grades in my program, and did "average" but I have had quite a bit above average success in my career since. All the employers I've had just looked at the degree, not any grades.

I was able to spend more time on the labs, which was the part I enjoyed. It was also the part that could be applied to "real" jobs, and I spent less on remembering formulas I'd never use again. I got a more "usable" education out of it. One semester I entered a school wide competition for a lab invention. I got first place. That semester was my worst GPA wise, but that was the same semester when my dad died and i had to decide go back to school or drop out. I went anyway but my heart wasn't in it for a while, hence the poor grades. I threw myself into this project as a cope, and it came out very well. When I have interviews and discussed my education I get to mention this project and my award, it always has an impact. Getting the best grades are good, but there are other ways to be successful for some of us.


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## shinedowness (Dec 11, 2017)

I think some people put too much emphasis on IQs that they become narcissistically unaware of the real world. Stephen King, the author responsible for the film The Shawshank Redemption being based off his own book Rita Hayworth and Shawshank Redemption, said, "People who boast about their IQs are losers." Just because you have perfect grades does not mean you can excel at all jobs. Memory attainment and putting out the right answers on paper or online is not the only important thing for certain jobs. Certain jobs require physical labor. If you have seen the show The Big Bang Theory, you might have seen Sheldon Cooper and Penny. Sheldon graduated school early and is mathematically inclined. Penny graduated high school probably at a normal time and is socially inclined. What I have seen is that Sheldon is socially inept in certain ways. Also, what I have seen is that Penny is uninterested in some things that Sheldon does. Even though I do think caring about your academic performance and doing your best are important for wanting a job, that could have standards, that you would want, I also think that some schools blow things out of proportion when it comes to academic performance that it becomes dehumanizing and cliquey.


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## Judson Joist (Oct 25, 2013)

shinedowness said:


> I think some people put too much emphasis on IQs that they become narcissistically unaware of the real world.


Totally. What about EQ?



> Stephen King...said, "People who boast about their IQs are losers."


Last IQ test I took clocked me at 125 (classified as "gifted" but not "genius" which would be 140 or better). I thought the test was boring and was of questionable tactical utility.



> Just because you have perfect grades does not mean you can excel at all jobs. Memory attainment and putting out the right answers on paper or online is not the only important thing for certain jobs. Certain jobs require physical labor.


All true. I've made more money working factory jobs than office jobs. My favorite job was operating forklifts.



> What I have seen is that Sheldon is socially inept in certain ways.


He's socially inept in many ways! XD



> Also, what I have seen is that Penny is uninterested in some things that Sheldon does.


What irritates me most about Sheldon is his superiority complex. It makes him completely unrelatable. If he was truly strategic in this thinking, he'd value all scientific disciplines equally instead of assuming that physics trumps all. Look at what Amy and Howard are able to achieve when they work together! If Sheldon had more of a proper leadership mentality (as he wrongfully fancies himself to have), he'd encourage that sort of thing with his friends who all have differing specialties. His particular mindset lends itself to this "A-Team" style of leadership. That is, if not for his superiority complex. If he could overcome that part of himself, he could be an effective team director.



> some schools blow things out of proportion when it comes to academic performance that it becomes dehumanizing and cliquey.


Absolutely agreed. Down with the system!


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## Grandmaster Yoda (Jan 18, 2014)

In my school, a grade indicates whether you did the work or not. If you followed the instructions, read the book, paid attention in class, all of these things, then you have a good grade. Just out of the question. People who have bad grades just lack any semblance of a desire to do well. If I'm clueless about something, I don't just sit there and wait for test time. I just don't understand what goes through people's heads when they don't know what they are doing. Grades don't indicate intellect, they usually do indicate effort. Unless it's cheating. Cheating doesn't really happen with people have high grades. It's usually people on the verge of failing that give themselves a leg up by cheating so they can continue with their nonsense. They will not be employed because they don't know what they are doing.

There are plenty of people who have grades but claim to be better students. I just have to question why. It seems like the only reason someone might have a low grade is a lack of effort. Just like the video said, valedictorians are just the hardest workers. I'm not one to sit around and study daily, but I get my work done and in complete form. I never handed in an incomplete assignment. I don't know what people are thinking when they do. Would you do that at work? I hope not. I just don't understand why people wouldn't put the effort in when they are paying to be there.


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## SevSevens (Aug 5, 2015)

As someone who has received perfect grades always, it does not matter. Behavior matters more. Companies would rather pay someone who is decent at their job who won't rock the boat to be a manager, or executive if they have leadership skills than someone from MIT who is going to come and think they're some Michelangelo, and by virtue of attending a prestigious institution you will. This is why fortune 500 companies fill their ranks with experienced people, not with people from top schools.

When companies promote innovation, what they mean is, innovative ways to improve your basic bitch work. They don't want you to go out creating liabilities for them. The leadership will do that. You are to sit and work, and be efficient. This is quite different than doing well in school - almost the opposite.


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## Loser (Dec 11, 2017)

Got top grades my whole life. Test scores, you name it. What did it get me? Well, 
everyone thought I was smart and so would then say, "Why, why are you throwing 
your life away like this?!!" Okay, they didn't all say it. They would just think it at me 
with their beady little eyes. Truth is, I don't want much out of life that it seems other 
people are after. I've only just recently finally accepted the ugly truth that competence 
doesn't even matter all that much to others, being agreeable does. Well, I've been 
going about this all wrong, anyway! Thank God I didn't want that yacht!


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## shinedowness (Dec 11, 2017)

Judson Joist said:


> Totally. What about EQ?


I asked that "same" question, but it was worded differently in my head. I think the same for the EQ as I do with the IQ. Some people can emphasize them too much.



> Last IQ test I took clocked me at 125 (classified as "gifted" but not "genius" which would be 140 or better). I thought the test was boring and was of questionable tactical utility.


I think personality type tests, IQ tests, and EQ tests are not relevant to the real world in some ways.



> All true. I've made more money working factory jobs than office jobs. My favorite job was operating forklifts.


You lift, bro? Never mind the question, but I do find that office jobs are better for extraverted and introverted people that are aware of their real world more than their inner world and are willing to interact with different real people and real things if need be instead of being extremely reserved and anxious that they can't.



> He's socially inept in many ways! XD


Yeah, I was using the word certain for a humoring effect.



> What irritates me most about Sheldon is his superiority complex. It makes him completely unrelatable. If he was truly strategic in this thinking, he'd value all scientific disciplines equally instead of assuming that physics trumps all.


To me, Sheldon Cooper is Adolf Hitler without the social adeptability and other things. And I consider Sheldon Cooper to be a borderline INTJ, and I consider Penny to be a borderline ESFP. Those 2 characters are polar opposites in many ways to me. Yeah, even I cannot see how Sheldon is relatable to the majority of the people that watch the show. I think the writers of the show had him as a character to make the show off the wall. To me, he annoys me more than he entertains me. I actually got tired of watching the show altogether from it looking a stereotype to the nerdy world that it didn't really have an edge that got me hooked on it. But, anyways.


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## Arzazar Szubrasznikarazar (Apr 9, 2015)

Grandmaster Yoda said:


> In my school, a grade indicates whether you did the work or not. If you followed the instructions, read the book, paid attention in class, all of these things, then you have a good grade. Just out of the question. People who have bad grades just lack any semblance of a desire to do well. If I'm clueless about something, I don't just sit there and wait for test time. I just don't understand what goes through people's heads when they don't know what they are doing. Grades don't indicate intellect, they usually do indicate effort. Unless it's cheating. Cheating doesn't really happen with people have high grades. It's usually people on the verge of failing that give themselves a leg up by cheating so they can continue with their nonsense. They will not be employed because they don't know what they are doing.
> 
> There are plenty of people who have grades but claim to be better students. I just have to question why. It seems like the only reason someone might have a low grade is a lack of effort. Just like the video said, valedictorians are just the hardest workers. I'm not one to sit around and study daily, but I get my work done and in complete form. I never handed in an incomplete assignment. I don't know what people are thinking when they do. Would you do that at work? I hope not. I just don't understand why people wouldn't put the effort in when they are paying to be there.


How about attention and memory problems A WELL KNOWN EFFECT OF TRAUMA?

Why do you create delusional stories like this in your mind instead of educating yourself? Why do you lie? 

Do you remember how many times I wrote about effects of trauma on cognition, school performance, etc?

What the hell is wrong with you? Why do you lie?

Why are you, normies such malicious liars?


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## pwowq (Aug 7, 2016)

Or lets have my take on 'perfect grades' with a touch of irony:

If you can't prove your shit, you're shit.

When I look at someone thru the lens as an employer I would look for what's between the ears. The apparent correlation between perfect grades and a perfect mind for the job might be there... but I simply doubt it's there until proven otherwise by the person sitting infront of me.

My story and 'grades':
When grades didn't matter I failed almost everything. I saw no point in performing good for the sake of proving performance. I tried to understand the subjects and no more. Then came a time where grades would impact my life. Pulled myself together and went from 'eh, let him do what he does.. we've tried!'-student to 'better than average, wtf?'-student. With it I got options to choose what to do next... unlike the kids with real issues.

After the choice I slacked off thinking that "a pass is enough everything above is a bonus".... here I am currently not failing at life (I have failed my life once due to outside influences... unlucky timing with the global 2008-crash).


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## Drecon (Jun 20, 2016)

(I'm at work so I couldn't watch the video yet, I'm sorry if I'm going to be making some of the same points here)

I'm a teacher and I tell my students all the time that their grades don't really matter. It matters if you get a passing grade or not, but beyond that, nobody will ever care if you had an A or a C+ on your test. You'll still get the same job. 

There's a few reasons grades exist. 
1: To prove to a future employer that you have te qualifications for the job they're hiring you for
2: To prove to other educational institutions that you have the qualifications to start there. 
3: To serve as a list of things to do before you can get a diploma (although the reasons for the diploma are pretty much the above)
4: To get an idea of how well you know the things that were being tested. 

The last one is actually a good one, as that one can tell you if you're behind or ahead of the pack, telling you where it might be wise to spend most of your energy. If it's a subject that you want to specialize in, then it can be good to get a good grade so that you can tell yourself that you might be on a good starting level with that subject. 

Other than that, no employer will ever care if you got a good grade or a bad one on a subhect, as long as you're able to do the job they ask you to do.


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## Grandmaster Yoda (Jan 18, 2014)

Arzazar Szubrasznikarazar said:


> How about attention and memory problems A WELL KNOWN EFFECT OF TRAUMA?
> 
> Why do you create delusional stories like this in your mind instead of educating yourself? Why do you lie?
> 
> ...


Here's the thing. There are reasons why people do not succeed, such as being overwhelmed by various activities that they must perform. There are attention problems, there's this and there's that. But I am not lying when I say that a lot of people don't care and reject some or a lot of subject matter as being useless to them in their lives. That doesn't even have to be the result of giving up. Constant existential questions of "Why are we learning this?" I've seen this firsthand, there are plenty of people on this site who have alluded to the same vein of thinking. The problem with parents is how they approach that. If you expect all students to get A's, you assume that they just aren't working. Some are putting effort in but may have attention problems. But some other people don't care. I don't see what's wrong with saying that people don't care, they say it themselves. Then they promote the people who are for whatever reason stable in the school environment and do well to geniuses when they don't have to be. That's what the valedictorians said, they are hard workers and the video said it didn't have to do with creativity. That's what I said as well, it's really not about intellect. Perhaps more about concentration and focus. But I would think that's true of many jobs. 

But once you get into college or a trade school it seems like the existential questions should be going away. You chose to do this, so you should know why you are doing it. Then there are people who come in without passion but only an expectation that they will get money at the end. That doesn't work either. People come in over their heads a lot of times because they have to start learning advanced math which they were not prepared for. Sure the system could be changed to be more like Finland. I don't understand why we need to lie and say that kids don't care when the kids say it themselves.


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## SoCalDave (Jul 15, 2017)

No, perfect grades/top grades do not really matter. As others have said that as long as you can do the job that is asked of you then you're fine. A lot of times students will earn Cs because the class material has no connection to students and their experiences. The stuff is abstract/theory/principles and that often does not interest many students. They just do enough to get by and a C does not mean you don't get it instead it may mean the student is not interested.


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## isfpisfp (Sep 10, 2017)

The more time I devote to a specific class the less time I have to read other books and think about other things, I dont see the point in memorizing a subject for like an hour a day when I can do something else with that time. I can either do a ton of genetics problems that may or may not help me on the actual exam for hours or just learn the concept and try to think on my feet on the exam and spend the remaining time reading a philosophy book or something


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## Robert2928 (Apr 6, 2012)

Perfect grades aren't important. Book smarts only get you so far in life.


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## Catwalk (Aug 12, 2015)

Depend(s) on ones objectives; my field is highly competitive (&) I will take any "boost," I can get - which is usually strong grades, and sufficient experience, especially going in as applicant *3,405*. :facepalm: 

Anyhow, my idea is* striving* for good grades - not for the sake of good grades, but rather (i.e., _recognizing opportunities_ / and_ taking advantage_ of (X)-opportunities), - while *simultaneously* fighting back against (stupidities/biases), that is, appoaching "educational hierarchies" in the same ways we "counter" what usually promotes anti-intellectualism and stifles creativity - (e.g., socialization - indoctrination - discipline - trauamtic experiences), and so forth. Daily intellectual hygiene, improving ones susceptibility to misread, miseducate, misunderstand and side philosophizing suffices.


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## incision (May 23, 2010)

Depends. If you want a shot at an Ivy League college, having perfect grades help but so do other factors like community/charitable efforts, talents, who you know, socioeconomic status, personality, etc. So if you're spending all your time trying to get perfect grades, then you're already outclassed for admission.

Ivy League degrees don't matter as much in STEM and many other fields. They're very helpful for Law, Business and Finance fields.


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## Mr. Anderson (Nov 19, 2017)

Woah, there's a whole lot of crazy in this thread. Do people actually believe this BS about grades no mattering or are they just trying to justify their failures in life? Because in reality GPA has an INCREDIBLY STRONG correlation to future income and the income differential between those who go to college and those who don't is the highest it's ever been. Working hard and getting good grades is pretty much a guarantee you will be able to have a good income in the future. Obviously it doesn't guarantee it an, but if you choose not to peruse a high income field then that one is on you, nobody else.

1. Correlation of income to educational attainment.









2. Correlation of income to GPA.


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## 481450 (Aug 13, 2017)

You're graded in elementary/middle school, once you make it to the next grade level, report cards from last year don't matter. Once you get to high school, report cards from grades K-8 don't matter at all! The college acceptation process starts in high school, but once you graduate high school and get into college or university, high school report cards don't matter at all!

I think we get where this is going.


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## pwowq (Aug 7, 2016)

Mr. Anderson said:


> 1. Correlation of income to educational attainment.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Where lies the point of "good enough"? 15'000/year? 25'000/year? 35'000/year? Is the wage itself a metric one base success?


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## Mr. Anderson (Nov 19, 2017)

pwowq said:


> Where lies the point of "good enough"? 15'000/year? 25'000/year? 35'000/year? Is the wage itself a metric one base success?


That's up to you to determine, I am merely presenting you with the fact, what you do with them is your choice.



WiiFan said:


> You're graded in elementary/middle school, once you make it to the next grade level, report cards from last year don't matter. Once you get to high school, report cards from grades K-8 don't matter at all! The college acceptation process starts in high school, but once you graduate high school and get into college or university, high school report cards don't matter at all!
> 
> I think we get where this is going.


There is an incredible rate of return on hours invested in education. For every one hour you work in high school or college you save 10+ hours of work as an adult.


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## chad86tsi (Dec 27, 2016)

Mr. Anderson said:


> y GPA has an INCREDIBLY STRONG correlation to future income and the income differential between those who go to college and those who don't is the highest it's ever been.
> 
> 1. Correlation of income to educational attainment.
> 
> ...


I don't doubt the statistics, but I do suspect the correlation isn't as "strong" as you think.

Me:

high school GPA senior year : 1.1
Education : AAS - Electronics Engineering Technology
Annual income : 103,000
career : Communications systems technician, work for major electrical utility supporting regional power grid

My wife:

High School GPA senior year : 4.0
Education : Masters - Mathematics, BA - Education
Annual income 72,000
Career : advanced mathematics teacher, works at local high school teaching college-credit level classes.



Education is a valuable tool, and a valuable resource, but its not an accurate predictor in my opinion.


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## Mr. Anderson (Nov 19, 2017)

chad86tsi said:


> I don't doubt the statistics, but I do suspect the correlation isn't as "strong" as you think.
> 
> Education is a valuable tool, and a valuable resource, but its not an accurate predictor in my opinion.


Nobody is trying to claim there is a 100% correlation, only that they are strongly correlated. You can't just pick two datapoints to try to disprove that when there have been plenty of real studies on the subject with hundreds or thousands of participants .


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## BlackDog (Jan 6, 2012)

Grades do matter. I have a much higher GPA than most of my friends and this has already had practical consequences. First, I easily get into universities and programs which they are or were denied. I have a lot of options when it comes to what I want to study and where. Second, I am able to finance my education almost entirely through scholarships. Third, I have the opportunity to contribute to journals and conferences which require a minimum GPA that they do not have. Fourth, I have a wide array of options for graduate school. I will likely be able to attend almost any school I want. My friends with lower GPAs are unlikely to make it into graduate school at all. 

It seems absurd to me to say that my good grades have afforded me no advantages so far. If I had lower grades I would almost certainly have to change my career plans, as they would be unattainable. I also think there is a stereotype of the students with high GPA as being obsessed with studying and willing to do anything for an A. That is not my experience at all. You do not need to spend weekends at the library or abandon your social life, and in fact I would not recommend that kind of focus for most people. Good grades come from having standards and being creative. Don't shoot for a C when you can shoot for an A. Don't be safe when you can be bold. Be passionate about your subject and take pride in your work, and you'll do well. 

Also, if a high income is your goal - it is not mine - then choose your degree wisely, but don't use this as an excuse to settle for mediocrity. It closes more doors than it opens.


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## chad86tsi (Dec 27, 2016)

Mr. Anderson said:


> Nobody is trying to claim there is a 100% correlation, only that they are strongly correlated. You can't just pick two datapoints to try to disprove that when there have been plenty of real studies on the subject with hundreds or thousands of participants .


Perhaps you should define : "INCREDIBLY STRONG" then.

there are three kinds of lies: Lies, Damn lies, and statistics.

10 people are sitting in the lunchroom on break and decide compare their incomes to the "average". Persons 1-9 are factory floor workers and all make 50,000 per year. Person 10 is the CEO of the factory and makes 5,000,000. Their average income is 545,000. The 9 factory workers are shocked and dismayed and think they need to overthrow the CEO. 

Person 11 is friends with some of those factory worker and hears about this. He works at the factory next door and makes 40,000 a year and wonders why those 9 persons are so damn greedy and unhappy.


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## chad86tsi (Dec 27, 2016)

BlackDog said:


> If a high income is your goal, choose your degree wisely


Agreed. 

This is an important factor, and "personal choice" skews the statistics. My wife could make three times her own income and twice as much as me if she were to be an actuary, she is already educationally qualified.

Statistics average a lot of possibilities out of existence on paper. Life isn't like that. Statistics is data, not the answer.


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## Chompy (May 2, 2015)

Do perfect grades correlate with income? Most of the time, yes. 

I think attitude is the underlying determinant. This isn't always true and sometimes things come down to chance and bad luck, sure, but in a fair amount of cases I have seen, a good attitude towards your studies can pay off even if you achieve a mark you dislike. This might be different depending on your location, but where I live there are plenty of ways to achieve educational goals despite having poor grades. If you go through a rough patch in your teen years and bomb your HS senior years, but motivate yourself back to your standard, there is a much higher chance of you living a more comfortable life than if your attitude is consistently off-putting to an employer or teacher. 

As for statistics, I'm not sure. There certainly would be a correlation between your level of education and your income on the broad scale, but income might not be important as enjoying the career path for some people.


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## ENTJudgement (Oct 6, 2013)

Cal said:


> Description:


Grades mean nothing.

I failed every STEM subject in highschool with Es and Ds, still got into Uni with an outstanding art mark, still got straight As in Uni without studying coz what I learnt there is actually somewhat interesting, still got a job in STEM and found it ez, some people just find school boring and cbf learning useless crap that you do not require at your job.


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## confusedasheck (Jan 8, 2016)

My field of study does not necessarily require great grades but a good portfolio that shows you are capable.

Although, I always disagree with people saying grades do not matter, as I believe that is completely false. I am against getting
good grades for the sake of getting good grades. However, I think students not attempting to learn the material but memorize everything, so they can achieve an A on a test is useless.

I respect people who genuinely work hard to acquire an A and are learning from all of it. 
If the student is barely putting effort into getting an A, but they are doing other stuff to go a step further with it, I think the A is 
worthy.


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## Grandmaster Yoda (Jan 18, 2014)

BlackDog said:


> Grades do matter. I have a much higher GPA than most of my friends and this has already had practical consequences. First, I easily get into universities and programs which they are or were denied. I have a lot of options when it comes to what I want to study and where. Second, I am able to finance my education almost entirely through scholarships. Third, I have the opportunity to contribute to journals and conferences which require a minimum GPA that they do not have. Fourth, I have a wide array of options for graduate school. I will likely be able to attend almost any school I want. My friends with lower GPAs are unlikely to make it into graduate school at all.
> 
> It seems absurd to me to say that my good grades have afforded me no advantages so far. If I had lower grades I would almost certainly have to change my career plans, as they would be unattainable. I also think there is a stereotype of the students with high GPA as being obsessed with studying and willing to do anything for an A. That is not my experience at all. You do not need to spend weekends at the library or abandon your social life, and in fact I would not recommend that kind of focus for most people. Good grades come from having standards and being creative. Don't shoot for a C when you can shoot for an A. Don't be safe when you can be bold. Be passionate about your subject and take pride in your work, and you'll do well.
> 
> Also, if a high income is your goal - it is not mine - then choose your degree wisely, but don't use this as an excuse to settle for mediocrity. It closes more doors than it opens.


There's really some odd things that go on with GPA. I was sitting in a lab overnight and all of the upperclassmen showed up and started complaining about their lives. Some of them had GPAs of merely 2.0 which the minimum tolerated GPA for our major. They talked about someone with a 3.7 GPA, but that person didn't know how which cable to plug into a router. Assuming it is the class that I suspect, then they don't really test for that so much since we only did one lab. But suppose my assumption is wrong and that person got by on answer multiple choice very effectively without ever doing too well on the practical application. I think their argument is that grades don't matter as much as your practical skill. But they really do procrastinate. This was midnight. That's thing about it, it's great that you more or less know what you are doing but will you do it in a timely or responsible fashion? I still stand by this, that's what the grades tell. Barring learning disabilities and emotional problems, if you understand then the only other component is to do. What happens is that people understand, but then they put off. I don't expect any company to hire based off of GPA, if you prove to know what you are doing and have the capacity to learn as you go that's good. But to me, I chose to be here. I might as well be the best I can be. I'm never nervous about a test, I'm not anxiety stricken like it seems certain valedictorian types are. When I was a child, getting below a 90 was heartbreaking. Now it's like okay if it does happen, now I can know what I did wrong and improve for next time. Not that big of a deal.


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## Mr. Anderson (Nov 19, 2017)

chad86tsi said:


> there are three kinds of lies: Lies, Damn lies, and statistics.
> 
> 10 people are sitting in the lunchroom on break and decide compare their incomes to the "average". Persons 1-9 are factory floor workers and all make 50,000 per year. Person 10 is the CEO of the factory and makes 5,000,000. Their average income is 545,000. The 9 factory workers are shocked and dismayed and think they need to overthrow the CEO.
> 
> Person 11 is friends with some of those factory worker and hears about this. He works at the factory next door and makes 40,000 a year and wonders why those 9 persons are so damn greedy and unhappy.


It may well be the point you are trying to make, but income is virtually never referenced using the mean of a group, it is always the median. If someone is talking about the average income they are talking about the median in which case it would be $50,000 not $545,000.


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## Mr. Anderson (Nov 19, 2017)

ENTJudgement said:


> Grades mean nothing.
> 
> I failed every STEM subject in highschool with Es and Ds, still got into Uni with an outstanding art mark, still got straight As in Uni without studying coz what I learnt there is actually somewhat interesting, still got a job in STEM and found it ez, some people just find school boring and cbf learning useless crap that you do not require at your job.


You literally disproved your own point when you said you got straight A's in college. Yeah, obviously no job cares about your HS grades, but you can bet your sweet ass they wouldn't have hired you with straight Ds in college.


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## Mr. Anderson (Nov 19, 2017)

Grandmaster Yoda said:


> I don't expect any company to hire based off of GPA, if you prove to know what you are doing and have the capacity to learn as you go that's good.


Don't know what field you're in but the vast majority of jobs when I applied out of college had a minimum GPA as a requirement (AKA: something HR automatically screens you out for without anyone even seeing your resume) and the top jobs had some very high GPA requirements. Obviously a GPA alone didn't get you a job, but it DID get you the interview.


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## chad86tsi (Dec 27, 2016)

I think the area of study and research you are using to make your point is valuable and accurate, but it only applies to "average" people. I can think of quite a few very successful people that were pioneers and great inventors that had horrible school records. What do they have in common? they weren't average. The richest man in the world (and in many ways most successful) never finished college. He was also rather un-average. I'm not average, and quite a few of us aren't either.

The focus on grades for someone "average" is probably a very useful tool for hedging ones future opportunities.


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## ENTJudgement (Oct 6, 2013)

Mr. Anderson said:


> You literally disproved your own point when you said you got straight A's in college. Yeah, obviously no job cares about your HS grades, but you can bet your sweet ass they wouldn't have hired you with straight Ds in college.


HS or College grades were not specified. Not my fault I got As without trying, didnt work in HS though so do grades matter? Superficially yes, practically, Fk knows, how do you go from all Ds and Es in HS to straight As in College, both STEM subjects?


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## Grandmaster Yoda (Jan 18, 2014)

Mr. Anderson said:


> Don't know what field you're in but the vast majority of jobs when I applied out of college had a minimum GPA as a requirement (AKA: something HR automatically screens you out for without anyone even seeing your resume) and the top jobs had some very high GPA requirements. Obviously a GPA alone didn't get you a job, but it DID get you the interview.


I'm learning within the field of information technology. I personally haven't seen that, but usually when I look through random job listings it's mostly for entry-level. Oddly enough they are hardly entry level because they expect you to have years of experience beforehand.

I think between one person who has good grades and one who has excellent grades, the decision will based on other qualities of the person like motivation, attitude and personality. How well they would work on a team and so on. Maybe it would open up to get past those minimum barriers, but I don't think I'm somehow in significantly more demand just because GPA. Especially when you look and hear people calling college degrees just pieces of paper nowadays. There was this one post by someone on the internet whining because no one hired him despite his high scores on a certification test. It's not about what you remember, but your willingness to learn more. It's also about job availability because there are completely different demands in different regions despite the overall idea that there is simply a high demand in general.


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## Flamme et Citron (Aug 26, 2015)

Kids "come into" their intelligence at different speeds. There's no correlation between good grades in primary school, and later success. It's only towards mid-teens that grades are actually a true indicator of IQ (and work ethic). I always feel like rolling my eyes and telling some home truths when people brag to me about their "gifted" 6-year old, especially when the parents are dumb/average. IQ is mostly hereditary, dumb parents -> dumb child. I don't though, oh I'm so glad little Timmy is a genius, I'm sure he's the special snowflake genius of the school - all the other kids are average, he's the special one.


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## BlackDog (Jan 6, 2012)

Grandmaster Yoda said:


> There's really some odd things that go on with GPA. I was sitting in a lab overnight and all of the upperclassmen showed up and started complaining about their lives. Some of them had GPAs of merely 2.0 which the minimum tolerated GPA for our major. They talked about someone with a 3.7 GPA, but that person didn't know how which cable to plug into a router. Assuming it is the class that I suspect, then they don't really test for that so much since we only did one lab. But suppose my assumption is wrong and that person got by on answer multiple choice very effectively without ever doing too well on the practical application. I think their argument is that grades don't matter as much as your practical skill. But they really do procrastinate. This was midnight. That's thing about it, it's great that you more or less know what you are doing but will you do it in a timely or responsible fashion? I still stand by this, that's what the grades tell. Barring learning disabilities and emotional problems, if you understand then the only other component is to do. What happens is that people understand, but then they put off. I don't expect any company to hire based off of GPA, if you prove to know what you are doing and have the capacity to learn as you go that's good. But to me, I chose to be here. I might as well be the best I can be. I'm never nervous about a test, I'm not anxiety stricken like it seems certain valedictorian types are. When I was a child, getting below a 90 was heartbreaking. Now it's like okay if it does happen, now I can know what I did wrong and improve for next time. Not that big of a deal.


Of course GPA isn't everything, but I guess my point is that a good GPA is not going to hinder you and a poor GPA might. If I am sorting through applicants for a position at work and I see somebody had a 3.9 GPA and someone else had a 2.0 then all else being equal I am more inclined to call the person with the 3.9. I have to ask myself, why would somebody only have a 2.0? Did they do poorly on tests because they don't know the material? Did they have poor attendance and this impacted their grades? Are they smart but apathetic and they just didn't work very hard? None of those things bode well for a potential employee even if it is not a direct reflection of the person's intelligence.

I'm not really the valedictorian type either, to be honest. You won't catch me making flashcards for tests or joining study groups or anything like that. And I am aware how grades can be a poor reflection of one's potential. I was a high C, low B student in high school. I barely passed some of my classes, despite the fact I almost always did very well on tests. I just had little interest in school at the time and I had poor work ethic. I found school boring and preferred to hang out behind the football field with the punks and the stoners than sit through Spanish. I took solace in the fact that I knew I was smart and _could _do well if I showed up to class or did homework, so the grades meant nothing. But that simply isn't true, they did mean something. They were a reflection of my attitude and my character. I take a certain amount of personal pride in getting high grades now, and this has opened a lot of doors for me. 

I know this is an unpopular opinion, but I feel like a lot of people who think grades really mean _nothing _are often a bit resentful. It seems absolutely demonstrable to me that they open doors and I can't think of any that they close. If what people mean is that having a high GPA isn't necessarily going to make you the next Mark Zuckerberg or whomever then yeah, I guess not, but is that really the goal?


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## Cal (Sep 29, 2017)

My thread is just one big argument, and I can only fix it the one way I know how.









By posting sexy cool cat photos! Since that is what everyone is getting agitated about!


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