# I sometimes feel depressed about being a woman



## Mair (Feb 17, 2014)

I know it's probably silly, but I sometimes absolutely hate it. 

I believe women are inferior to men. Women are physically weaker. Women are on average less intelligent than men. Women are less capable in almost everything except giving birth. 

I also feel that women just have to rely on men for most things. Men can probably survive without women. Women cannot survive without men. 

If we segregated men and women and left men on a remote island, men would find a way to survive. They would build weapons and hunt animals and shit. If we left women on a remote island, they would die. No, I don't think women can hunt animals and build weapons and tools, at least the overwhelming majority of them cannot. If you're open-minded, you will admit that's it's true. 

Men are also the ones who built civilization and I don't buy that "women were just oppressed, that's why they couldn't be artists and writers". After all there have been female writers and artists even in times of hardcore patriarchy. They were just very, very few of them, because lets face it. Women don't have it in them to be creative.

The thing is, I feel women are truly only good for having children, at least the majority of them can't do anything else useful. However, it would be a horrible idea for me to have children since I'm crazy and borderline psychotic. So I feel extra useless.


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## ScientiaOmnisEst (Oct 2, 2013)

I know the feeling. I had a thread a while back about female inferiority, it caused quite a stir. I started with similar premises as you. Maybe I could link it and see what you think?


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## voyeur (Jan 13, 2016)

Ladies, you are invoking the feminists backlash with your posts. Get ready for the hate and the replies about setting woman back a hundred years.


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## Catwalk (Aug 12, 2015)

Mair said:


> If we segregated men and women and left men on a remote island, men would find a way to survive. They would build weapons and hunt animals and shit. If we left women on a remote island, they would die. No, I don't think women can hunt animals and build weapons and tools, at least the overwhelming majority of them cannot. If you're open-minded, you will admit that's it's true.


_
Nonsense,_ darling! All the alpha NT™ females would have us eating / well-nourished, + _constructed_ an escape / built a way out of that bitch within a week.

I *cannot *promise to be hanging around some of the Lazies™ (or you); _however,_ with such a *NIHILISTIC* + disorganized / lazy composition for _my_ tastes in such a situation._ Incompetent_ (i.e., lost hope / given-up / ditz) ones can nourish one another through last-minute tit sucking. 

_Meanwhile_, I would have assembled + planned a sufficient calculated escape about (4+) weeks prior.


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## ScientiaOmnisEst (Oct 2, 2013)

voyeur said:


> Ladies, you are invoking the feminists backlash with your posts. Get ready for the hate and the replies about setting woman back a hundred years.


Already done:
http://personalitycafe.com/critical-thinking-philosophy/726698-female-inferiority-what-do-about.html


(Since that thread closed I've been thinking about competence and intelligence in a pretty gender-neutral way. With this thread I'm no longer so sure if I should do that...)


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## Cheveyo (Nov 19, 2010)

If it makes you feel any better, your body is both capable of fighting disease and better able to deal with internal injuries than mine.






Mair said:


> I also feel that women just have to rely on men for most things. Men can probably survive without women. Women cannot survive without men.
> 
> If we segregated men and women and left men on a remote island, men would find a way to survive. They would build weapons and hunt animals and shit. If we left women on a remote island, they would die. No, I don't think women can hunt animals and build weapons and tools, at least the overwhelming majority of them cannot. If you're open-minded, you will admit that's it's true.




Funnily enough, they tried a Men vs Women survivor. I think it was the Dutch version of it. Both groups had some tension at first, but after things settled, all the men took to whatever role they could that best helped the group. Some would hunt, others would forage, some built shelters and stuff, etc. 

The women on the other hand refused to work with each other. It seemed like nobody wanted to be leader and at the same time, nobody wanted to listen to anyone else.

The men survived, the women just drained what resources they had. Eventually, the show producers had to give up on the men vs women thing, or risk the women starving. 






> Men are also the ones who built civilization and I don't buy that "women were just oppressed, that's why they couldn't be artists and writers". After all there have been female writers and artists even in times of hardcore patriarchy. They were just very, very few of them, because lets face it. Women don't have it in them to be creative.
> 
> The thing is, I feel women are truly only good for having children, at least the majority of them can't do anything else useful. However, it would be a horrible idea for me to have children since I'm crazy and borderline psychotic. So I feel extra useless.













Try looking up Camille Paglia. You might find her work interesting. She's a gay, feminist woman, and says stuff like what's in the picture above.


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## tangosthenes (Oct 29, 2011)

I'm kind of speechless..this is an odd thing for someone to say.

That said...where is this coming from? I see a lot of claims but not a lot in the real world to back it up. I have not really noted any strong divides in competence between the genders. There are base people everywhere, plenty of them men.


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## Chompy (May 2, 2015)

I disagree. If we left women and men on seperate islands there would be more variables changed then just the gender of the inhabitants on both islands. 

Can I ask your reasoning for women not hunting animals? That idea stems from the practices of societies over time which include men and gender norms. Remove the men and certain women would take over that role. The Indigenous peoples of Australia are considered to be the oldest people on Earth. In these mobs, women hunted when given the opportunity and contributed highly to the food stocking process, made damper, harvested fruits, cooked etc. They even went on group hunting sessions. Furthermore, they crafted weapons, tool, boats, clothes. 

If I was to go back to your original argument, this idea that women would not survive on their own would hypothetically apply to men in the same way. They would lack clothing, cooking etc. It's just an outdated gender norm.


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## neptvne (Jan 27, 2016)

Not to be a bitch but...

You might be inferior to men but not all us women are. Sorry to tell you.

I think if anyone is inferior it would actually be men. But then again, each gender has its strengths and each has its weaknesses. But like Catwalk said, the alpha NT females would most likely be able to do everything the men could, while the rest of you...well you'd have to rely on us.

I find men to be more controlled by emotion than women are, especially emotions of jealousy, lust, anger, and depression. 

I feel like yes an overwhelming amount of females might not be able to do what men can, but I do believe in larger part because it has been because of oppression. Now hear me out, would you?

Not the exact oppression you are thinking about, but rather, more of a mental oppression. From birth we are taught to behave and believe what we believe today from birth. We are taught not to be more successful then men, not to be smarter, not to get in his way, and that it's a mans job to be the fixer upper around the house, the builder, the hunter.

Women aren't taught that like men are. And I do believe women to be more intelligent and thoughtful then men, especially on an emotional and psychological level. I'd be far more afraid of getting on the bad side of a woman, than a man. Women will find away to ruin your life and strip you of all your pride and dignity, and they can take everything from you and turn everyone against you. Men don't have that type of charm or manipulative power. All they know how to do when someone gets on their bad side is give them a beating. So what? The first option sounds scarier. I have also found women to be more ruthless and less controlled by their emotions then the stereotype for our gender might imply.

We are discouraged from being hunters and builders and philosophers and engineers. While men on the other hand are encouraged. 

And honestly I would be totally fun with still living in a grass hut. Because then there would be no pollution, no wars, not nearly as much brutish violence, poverty, sickness, and death in a woman's world. All men know how to do is be arrogant and prideful (majority). And it's literally destroyed our planet. I've also found female leaders to be much better at leading than male leaders.

Some females are inferior to males though, and vice versa. We are all human after all, and intelligence and talent is not gender-biased.


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## jamaix (Sep 20, 2013)

Mair said:


> I know it's probably silly, but I sometimes absolutely hate it.


I often felt that way when I was young, but I grew up in a different time than you. There are more opportunities for women in most countries than there have ever been. 

A bit of history...When I was a teenager a man named Walter Mondale ran for president of the U.S. I remember hearing people(mostly men but also some women) state that they would never vote for him because he selected a woman (oh dear) as his running mate. No one questioned the comments, it was just assumed that it was a dumb move on Mondale's part. I remember feeling very hurt by this, but I said nothing. I would have been in the extreme minority. They didn't say I don't agree with her politics, it was all about the fact that she was a "woman." Walter Mondale lost his bid for presidency in a landslide.



> I believe women are inferior to men. Women are physically weaker. Women are on average less intelligent than men. Women are less capable in almost everything except giving birth.


There are some men who are much stronger than other men, does that make them inferior to them? Should one's worth be measured by how much we can lift or carry?



> I also feel that women just have to rely on men for most things. Men can probably survive without women. Women cannot survive without men.


Well, I've been around for awhile and there's something that I have noticed. When a spouse dies or there is a relationship break-up, the woman is often content to go for a very long time without someone in her life. They connect more with their family, with their friends, etc. The men on the other hand will often quickly look for someone else. They get very lonely, they aren't good at connecting with others, men often do a very poor job of offering comfort, love, and companionship to one another. That's not to say this is true of all men by any means, but it has certainly been a tendency I have noticed over the decades. 

My dad passed and my mom did not remarry for 7 years. She seemed pretty content and managed just fine on her own. The man that she married had only been a widow for 5 months when he married her. My father in law was only a widow for about 7 months when he married my mother in law. In general, I have observed that most women are much better at offering companionship, friendship, love, and sympathy. I believe it can be argued that these things are very important and valuable.



> If we segregated men and women and left men on a remote island, men would find a way to survive. They would build weapons and hunt animals and shit.
> If we left women on a remote island, they would die. No, I don't think women can hunt animals and build weapons and tools, at least the overwhelming majority of them cannot. If you're open-minded, you will admit that's it's true.


Is mere survival, living from one day to the next, all that matters? Would they be happy? Would they feel their lives were worth living?



> Men are also the ones who built civilization and I don't buy that "women were just oppressed, that's why they couldn't be artists and writers". After all there have been female writers and artists even in times of hardcore patriarchy. They were just very, very few of them, because lets face it. Women don't have it in them to be creative.


For much of history, women have spent their lives being pregnant and raising children. I have one great grandmother who had 9 children, and the other had 11. How much time would women have had to build civilizations? 



> The thing is, I feel women are truly only good for having children, at least the majority of them can't do anything else useful. However, it would be a horrible idea for me to have children since I'm crazy and borderline psychotic. So I feel extra useless.


I think you are undervaluing the role of being a mother. A man, no matter how much he may want to can never give birth to a child. Have you ever noticed that celebrities and sports players often mention their mothers? How often do you hear fathers mentioned? Even in my own family, when my kids call, they call me. They have a very good dad, but they still think first to call me. Most babies prefer their mom's. Of course there are exceptions, but as a general rule this is true. I often feel bad for dad's, because it is usually painfully obvious that children bond more strongly to their mothers. (yes, there are some exceptions)

In this day age and in most countries, you can do just about anything you want. Unlike in times past, if you don't want to be a mother, you don't have to be. Set some goals for yourself, then set out to make them come true. In this day and age, brute strength is seldom the determining factor when it comes to attaining what one wants.


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## Mange (Jan 9, 2011)

What in the fuck are you people saying!?? Speak for yourself, I dont need a man for shit! 

Wow. For shame.


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## neptvne (Jan 27, 2016)

Lots of typos and points left out in my post. Forgive me, I'm on my phone :/


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## astrolamb (Dec 14, 2015)

How pathetically flattering.

If you want to ignore the fact that the female body has vastly superior immunity to sex-linked genetic problems as well as general superiority in several aspects of intelligence, that is fine. But to disregard individual differences so blatantly that you cannot even be content as yourself because of your sex is just wrong.


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## nannuky (Apr 29, 2014)

Mair said:


> I know it's probably silly, but I sometimes absolutely hate it.
> 
> I believe women are inferior to men. Women are physically weaker. Women are on average less intelligent than men. Women are less capable in almost everything except giving birth.
> 
> ...


You feel depressed because you judge. This is good and this is not. That is worth my time and that is not. Being aggressive is needed and being peaceful is not. Building a house is needed and making a certain flat or building (or anything else) a place you can call home is not.

Start appreciating things women are better than men at. We're not worse than men just because we're worse _at certain things_ - because there're also things we're better at than them. Still, we are simply different.


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## Carpentet810 (Nov 17, 2013)

opcorn:opcorn:


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## Catwalk (Aug 12, 2015)

neptvne said:


> Not to be a bitch but...
> 
> You might be inferior to men but not all us women are. Sorry to tell you.
> 
> I think if anyone is inferior it would actually be men. But then again, each gender has its strengths and each has its weaknesses. But like Catwalk said, the alpha NT females would most likely be able to do everything the men could, while the rest of you...well you'd have to rely on us.


Such notions have compared females with _lower_ cognitive capacity than our *ape*-like (small-brained) ancestors (i.e., _less capable_); (re: That managed to build + assembled civilizations).

I _suspect_ you and I & few others will be the only ones to _survive_ at this rate; however, there surely are leading + dominant women that will not stand for OP's attitude (e.g., high-functioning Te's), of course - her and other *corresponding* females can reside on _another_ half of the island.

They may starve there, however, if it is posited I am afraid to climb trees + hunt pigs + construct tools / weaponary / assembled shelter, _et al_ and brainstorm a route out of there, only few will survive in this regard. 

Or, even *arrived* without a sufficient plan (i.e., _after brief study / organized / sufficient back-up / failure reductions_), is far fetched / unfathomable.

Additionally, as long as _I live_, (and I will) and *rational* others, _so long_, I say. There is no need to ''stick'' together universally, with incompetents, only the competent will flourish with their group locality - that will be a _large_ enough group, I'll say.


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## Mange (Jan 9, 2011)

Women can do anything men can do. Women can be logical , aggressive, not all women are peaceful nurturers.. This is just sad.


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## Reluctanine (May 11, 2014)

Mair said:


> Men are also the ones who built civilization and I don't buy that "women were just oppressed, that's why they couldn't be artists and writers". After all there have been female writers and artists even in times of hardcore patriarchy. They were just very, very few of them, because lets face it. Women don't have it in them to be creative.


Women have only received education recently.

"Until recently, women have largely been excluded from the educational system. It may surprise you to know that while Harvard opened in 1636, the first college to admit women did not do so for another 200 years. Women did not begin attending college in equal numbers to men until as recently as 1980."

"The World Bank’s 2012 World Development Report on Gender Equality and Development drew attention to the fact that there are still 31 million girls out of school, nearly 4 million “missing” women annually (meaning the number of women in low- and middle-income countries who die relative to their counterparts in high-income countries) and, average wage gaps of 20 percent, along with gaps in labor force participation."

"Still, major gaps remain between boys and girls. In Africa and South Asia for example, boys remain 1.55 times more likely to complete secondary education than girls. Many countries will not meet the education Millennium Development Goals (MDGs) by 2015."

It's hard to be a creative person and produce art, when you can't even read or write properly. Plus, your only frame of reference is your home. To be creative, exploration has to be done outside the home. A lot of women aren't even allowed to go outside their homes without a man accompanying them, and they certainly aren't allowed to travel alone.

Extrapolate women's lack of education back through thousands of years, compared to men who have been educated all this time, and you'll see why the Nobel Prize is male-dominated, and why J.K. Rowling could only exist today.


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## ArmchairCommie (Dec 27, 2015)

Mair said:


> I know it's probably silly, but I sometimes absolutely hate it.
> 
> I believe women are inferior to men. Women are physically weaker. Women are on average less intelligent than men. Women are less capable in almost everything except giving birth.
> 
> ...


Perhaps I am not qualified to say this, but I feel exactly the opposite way. I feel like men are the inferior gender and women are superior in nearly every way shape and form. Women are able to work together and cooperate more willingly than most, while men compete themselves into anarchy. Men are often reckless and stupid, encouraged on by testosterone to make bold actions that result in their own deaths while women are more careful and thus better able to survive in the long term. Some may say that men built civilization, yet if one looks at the historical trends higher levels of civilization correlate with higher levels of female empowerment. Societies that oppress women such as Afghanistan and Somalia have primitive societies while those that let women run the country such as Germany and South Korea have advanced societies. And even though you say women are only good for having children, really that just makes men even more useless as if the human race consisted only of men it could not exist. If the human race consist only of women procreation would indeed be a challenge but I am confident that technology through stem cells and the like could enable artificial insemination, thus rendering all men obsolete. 

Some more facts to prove women's superiority and the inferiority of men:
In America at least, women have a life expectancy of 81 years while men only live to be 76. As such, women have a superior health to that of men.
On the topic of death, the suicide rate of men is triple that of women. If men were indeed the superior gender, I do not know why so many of them would be taking their own lives, this thus proves there relative uselessness.
Women are more likely to go to college and graduate from it then men are, after all the female populations at American universities is 57%. This proves the fact that women are in fact superior to men mentally, with only the old patriarchy holding them down.

All in all, while I personally believe that women are superior to men, the truth is likely that they are very close, if not equal to one another. Gender and sex are in my mind archaic terms and we as a society should move past them and onto a world in which everyone is judged solely on their personality and true identity, not the primitive hormones that their mortal bodies contain. But then again I am very biased in this regard as I am a communist who believes in equality for all, a very shy guy who personally feels inferior and can not speak for all men, and I am of course of the inferior gender, the male sex, so it would be only in my best interest to remove all gender boundaries and thus rid myself of my male shackles.


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## Wellsy (Oct 24, 2011)

Is this to be a gender debate?
Because it would seem to me there must be something more significant behind all this as I imagine this would result in some serious self loathing, what's happened and happening in one's life that you view yourself so poorly?
Are there no women role models that extend beyond the domestic life in your country? Is their no education of the abilities and aspirations of many women in history and the modern day, do you not identity with their capacities?
Do you think you're exposed to a lot of information that seeks to inform you as being inferior for being a woman as you look at the world and opinions around you more locally?


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## ScientiaOmnisEst (Oct 2, 2013)

LOL at the viewer count, getting some deja vu here.

Trust me, I would love to believe that any woman (not just "alpha NT females") can be as competent and capable as a man. Or at least that there's hope for those of us less technical and dominant by nature. Staying open for that. 

Also, what's this people keep saying about women being more resistant to certain genetic illnesses?
@jamaix: The loneliness/companionship thing. Is interesting. I've observed similar things to you - my mom's been a widow for almost 15 years and hasn't so much as had a date and, while interested in dating again, doesn't seem to mind being alone in that regard. In a more general sense, though, it seems to me most of the hardcore loners out there are male, and I see serial relationships more with women. I know that was what inspired my own thoughts about men being more independent. But then, weren't there also studies that women deal with heartbreak better than men? Maybe it's more personal though.


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## astrolamb (Dec 14, 2015)

ScientiaOmnisEst said:


> Also, what's this people keep saying about women being more resistant to certain genetic illnesses?


People with 2 x-chromosomes are much less likely to have x-linked recessive illnesses because both chromosomes would need to have the problem.


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## Amy (Jan 15, 2015)

Men can be powerful, buuuuuut...

* *




...They can easily be manipulated by women :kitten:


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## voyeur (Jan 13, 2016)

spoopy said:


> They would lack clothing, cooking etc. It's just an outdated gender norm.


Really? What makes you believe men couldn't cook or sew? Does the term _chef _or _fashion designer_ mean anything to you?


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## Gossip Goat (Nov 19, 2013)

No gender/sex is "superior", not scientifically proven anyways. If you do find something that tells you this, there will be something else that argues/proves against it. Culturally and perhaps psychologically women are _perceived_ as infeior but that's not to say they actually *are*. Sad.


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## jamaix (Sep 20, 2013)

ScientiaOmnisEst said:


> Also, what's this people keep saying about women being more resistant to certain genetic illnesses?
> @_jamaix_: The loneliness/companionship thing. Is interesting. I've observed similar things to you - my mom's been a widow for almost 15 years and hasn't so much as had a date and, while interested in dating again, doesn't seem to mind being alone in that regard. In a more general sense, though, it seems to me most of the hardcore loners out there are male, and I see serial relationships more with women. I know that was what inspired my own thoughts about men being more independent. But then, weren't there also studies that women deal with heartbreak better than men? Maybe it's more personal though.


I've been around long enough to have observed the behavior of men and women for many decades. While it is true that there are some men who are hard core loners, most aren't. I have seen far more men rush into bad relationships due to loneliness, than I have women. I have known countless men rush into marrying again after losing a spouse of many decades, only to deeply regret it. 

As I mentioned in my previous comment, this is often because women tend to have more friends. They are better at offering a sympathetic ear, they are better at showing love and affection to one another. Many men aren't good at offering this to one another, but that doesn't mean they don't feel the need for these things.


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## Catallena (Oct 19, 2014)

I honestly thought this thread was gonna be about periods. They're such a painn :bored:


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## Cheveyo (Nov 19, 2010)

ScientiaOmnisEst said:


> In a more general sense, though, it seems to me most of the hardcore loners out there are male



Are you sure it's always by choice, though?
Women tend to only find a small % of the male population attractive. I think OKCupid did the survey, but the asked the men and women on the site to rate the opposite gender. Women rated like 80% of men on the site to be BELOW average. So that means like 20% of the men on the site are the ones receiving all the female attention.

So are you certain they're alone because they want to be or is it because they have to be?


Yes, there is that whole grass eater - MGTOW movement. However, they're still a minority. A growing minority, but a minority none-the-less.


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## Mair (Feb 17, 2014)

Cheveyo said:


> Are you sure it's always by choice, though?
> Women tend to only find a small % of the male population attractive. I think OKCupid did the survey, but the asked the men and women on the site to rate the opposite gender. Women rated like 80% of men on the site to be BELOW average. So that means like 20% of the men on the site are the ones receiving all the female attention.
> 
> So are you certain they're alone because they want to be or is it because they have to be?
> ...


What do you think will happen if they become a majority?


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## Mbaruh (Aug 22, 2013)

There are physiological differences between men and women, so there might be things men do on average better than women, and other things that women do on average better than men (besides child-bearing!); but either way no _person_ should ever be discouraged from pursuing _anything_ on the basis of gender.
Some of the smartest people I know are women. Some of the smartest people I know are men. Anyone who tries to achieve something has potential for it. Some more, some less, and all of them have more than someone who doesn't even try.

Honestly, 3 pages and only a handful of the comments were to the point.
To those who comment things like "sad"- there's no need to be pretentious, the OPer feels bad enough already.
To those who try to turn this into a gender debate by making anti-women/anti-men posts- please don't. This isn't what this thread is about.


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## Miss Anne Thrope (May 2, 2015)

I truly feel sorry for you that you feel this way about females but yourself in particular.
Maybe because I am a "hick" that had a father that was military I was taught a lot of survival skills and would not need a male to survive.
I think everyone should have basic knowledge of survival skills because you never know what could happen regardless of your location.
The funny thing is I have met plenty of males that didn't have much, if any, knowledge in regards to survival skills.
I also have martial arts training and self-defense classes, I was taught how to shoot a gun so I don't miss a target... If you want to stop feeling useless then you need to be proactive. 
CPR and first aid courses help as well and are two important things people of both genders should have under their belt.


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## Cheveyo (Nov 19, 2010)

Mair said:


> What do you think will happen if they become a majority?




I honestly have no idea. Women will probably need to readjust their standards and expectations. Polygamy probably wont become more common. What'll become far more common is single mothers.

I know what'll happen before that, though. Society will attempt to shame those men into re-entering the dating game. It'll probably get rather vicious, too.


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## ArmchairCommie (Dec 27, 2015)

Cheveyo said:


> Are you sure it's always by choice, though?
> Women tend to only find a small % of the male population attractive. I think OKCupid did the survey, but the asked the men and women on the site to rate the opposite gender. Women rated like 80% of men on the site to be BELOW average. So that means like 20% of the men on the site are the ones receiving all the female attention.
> 
> So are you certain they're alone because they want to be or is it because they have to be?
> ...


Yes most women only find a small percentage of men attractive, however men often feel the exact same way. There are countless men out there that spend all their time stalking celebrities or hot girls on social media, completely oblivious to the fact that those women are way out of their league and that their are dozens of girls in their league who they could be with if they only tried. It is a truth of human life that the strong take from the weak, that the few have power over the many, this is what is wrong with our modern society, and this is what needs to be stopped. While I am not a radical communist and I do not advocate for immediate revolution the fact of the matter is that our modern society is broken beyond all belief and reform is necessary for the benefit of humanity. Men and women must rise up against the corrupt leaders and demand that the system be changed, those who are too scared to change the system and simply go there own way are cowards. People must be more politically active and they must learn that through unity we can achieve anything and everything.

Also sorry if this post went off on a wild tangent there, I just needed to say what I say our society needs. People need to stop arguing with one another and we must reach a consensus about how humanity is to progress further. 

Now back on topic, while there are certainly a large portion of the male population that is alone due to their forced position this fact is due to the inherent inferiority of males. No offense, but the average male is most certainly worse then the average female in today's society at least. Many men are rude jerks, who bully one another, pick on the weak, side with the strong, they are little more than parasites who are incapable of achieving success on there own. Then again, in actuality no one is capable of achieving success on their own. Humans are a social species and we have built our civilization by working *TOGETHER AS ONE* not by dividing ourselves and fighting for a spot at the top. Most women are smarter than men in this respect as they recognize the fact that we must all work together and going solo is only a recipe for failure. While I respect those who are highly individualistic and who are capable of living alone for large stretches of time, the fact of the matter is none of those people would survive more than a year out in the wilderness. You need other people to survive and we are all dependent on one another and we are all interconnected together as a species. As such I see the MGTOW movement as detrimental to the health of our society as those people are rebelling against the hand that feeds them, they are selfish in the respect that they are unable to recognize the basic fundamentals of a functional society. Everyone needs to help everyone else if we are to survive Global Warming, Peak Oil, Contamination of the Water Supply, etc, etc. When the world is in dire straights people need to resist their primal urges to regress into savage isolationism and they must come together to join the revolution and become part of the solution, not the problem.

Once again, I am sorry for ranting so much, but I am very, very passionate about this topic and I strongly dislike those who think they are "cool" for going it alone, for rebelling against the system. The system is broken, that is undeniable, but it must be changed through hard work and toil, not through nonchalant laziness and withdrawal. If you wish to disregard this post, then by all means do so, all of the above is simply my heartfelt opinion.


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## Chompy (May 2, 2015)

voyeur said:


> Really? What makes you believe men couldn't cook or sew? Does the term _chef _or _fashion designer_ mean anything to you?


Like I said in the quote, it's a gender norm. It's stupid, both ways, for men, for women. That was the supposed to be the point.


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## marblecloud95 (Aug 12, 2015)

Mair said:


> I know it's probably silly, but I sometimes absolutely hate it.
> 
> I believe women are inferior to men. Women are physically weaker. Women are on average less intelligent than men. Women are less capable in almost everything except giving birth.
> 
> ...


This explains a lot.


ArmchairCommie said:


> * As such I see the MGTOW movement as detrimental to the health of our society* as those people are rebelling against the hand that feeds them, they are selfish in the respect that they are unable to recognize the basic fundamentals of a functional society. Everyone needs to help everyone else if we are to survive Global Warming, Peak Oil, Contamination of the Water Supply, etc, etc. When the world is in dire straights people need to resist their primal urges to regress into savage isolationism and they must come together to join the revolution and become part of the solution, not the problem.
> 
> Once again, I am sorry for ranting so much, but I am very, very passionate about this topic and I strongly dislike those who think they are "cool" for going it alone, for rebelling against the system. The system is broken, that is undeniable, but it must be changed through hard work and toil, not through nonchalant laziness and withdrawal. If you wish to disregard this post, then by all means do so, all of the above is simply my heartfelt opinion.


LOL


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## Enxu (Dec 14, 2012)

Having different gender roles does not make one inferior to the other. Women, on many grounds, have stronger influence on men because of feminine energy.


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## EccentricSiren (Sep 3, 2013)

The post is so based on stereotypes and overgeneralizations, I'm not going to bother trying to tackle the whole thing, because it seems other people are doing that just fine. I will, however, touch on the one that most offended me.


> Women don't have it in them to be creative.


Do you want to come over here and tell me that to my face? I wrote and directed my own concept album project, and I've heard some very good things about it from people who know what they're talking about. I dare you to tell me personally that I don't have it in me to be creative simply because I happen to have a vagina.
I actually wrote a paper on women in music in college, and when I was doing my research, I came across a book that talked about how in some cultures, music was considered a woman's domain because it was creative, and in those cultures, creativity and birth were considered symbolic of each other (that is one of the concepts my album was based on.) Also, of the composers of the Middle Ages, the one people are most aware of today is probably Hildegard van Bingen, who was a German abbess, philosopher, musician, writer, as well as a scientist.
We also don't know how many books, musical compositions, paintings, and other creative works were written by women under masculine pseudonyms.
There is a wide variety of personalities and talents in each gender, and I refuse to believe that what's between my legs dictates my level of competence. When I make music, the fact that I'm a woman doesn't render my music inferior. I also don't write music to prove that women can write music, as that would be just as silly as not writing because I believe my gender makes me unable to do so. I write music because that's what I love to do, that's what I'm good at, and that's what I've wanted to do since I was 8. It's never crossed my mind that I can't do it because I'm a woman. To me, that makes about as much sense as saying I can't do it because I have blue eyes.
As cheesy as it sounds, as long as you believe that your gender holds you back, it will hold you back.


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## Toru Okada (May 10, 2011)

Enxu said:


> Having different gender roles does not make one inferior to the other. Women, on many grounds, have stronger influence on men because of feminine energy.


You mean because women have curves and holes?


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## ArmchairCommie (Dec 27, 2015)

marblecloud95 said:


> This explains a lot.
> 
> LOL


I do not mean to be confrontational, but why do you fine my statement about the MGTOW movement to be funny? Do find it to be hilariously incorrect? Do you see that it strikes at the truth and are laughing at the absurdity that has gone on in that movement? Or are you just laughing for laughing's sake? Sorry if I made a "mountain out of a molehill" but this thread is very serious and I would like to engage in productive discourse rather than fanciful entertainment.


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## neptvne (Jan 27, 2016)

EccentricSiren said:


> The post is so based on stereotypes and overgeneralizations, I'm not going to bother trying to tackle the whole thing, because it seems other people are doing that just fine. I will, however, touch on the one that most offended me.
> 
> Do you want to come over here and tell me that to my face? I wrote and directed my own concept album project, and I've heard some very good things about it from people who know what they're talking about. I dare you to tell me personally that I don't have it in me to be creative simply because I happen to have a vagina.
> I actually wrote a paper on women in music in college, and when I was doing my research, I came across a book that talked about how in some cultures, music was considered a woman's domain because it was creative, and in those cultures, creativity and birth were considered symbolic of each other (that is one of the concepts my album was based on.) Also, of the composers of the Middle Ages, the one people are most aware of today is probably Hildegard van Bingen, who was a German abbess, philosopher, musician, writer, as well as a scientist.
> ...


This post wins.


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## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

Luck said:


> This is coming across as game playing.
> 
> First you discount the most basic value that women generally have (to be nurturing/supportive), claiming it's of no value to you, that you value the more 'capable' virtues.
> 
> ...


I agree, @ScientiaOmnisEst ,

You're using false premises to try and logically "ban" women from being useful.

That's a personal logical failure on your part-- don't mistake it for the collective failure of the "majority" of over 50% of all human beings.


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## Vahyavishdapaya (Sep 2, 2014)

I sometimes feel depressed about being a man. Have you not seen some of the knuckle dragging gorillas who populate this planet? When it comes to intelligence, men dominate at the stupid end very, very heavily. At the genius end, it's still male dominated, but not as heavily as at the stupid end. Everywhere in between you'll find more women than men. So the 'average' intelligence is more or less the same, but the male distribution is much more polarised and extreme than the female distribution, which seems to be more evenly spread out with fewer outerliers either on the stupid or genius scale.


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## Eliotrope (Feb 7, 2016)

Sometimes I feel it too
Most of the men are logical, while most of the women are feelers. Correct? Correct.
If you're really bad with it, try thinking that we're different. We're female INTP.
We're logical women.


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## ScientiaOmnisEst (Oct 2, 2013)

Luck said:


> This is coming across as game playing.
> 
> First you discount the most basic value that women generally have (to be nurturing/supportive), claiming it's of no value to you, that you value the more 'capable' virtues.


Okay, yes, I am discounting being nurturing and feely - because I fall under that label. I do not have "more capable virtues", and I notice this when someone brings it up: someone talks about women being stupid, illogical, overemotional, etc, and immediately a group swoops of to say "Not all women! Some of us are just as capable as men!" True. But the logical-minded, competency-oriented women are the minority. If that minority isn't useless/inferior, what does that leave for the majority who does fit the stereotype?



> Then when someone points out that women generally are capable and many are exceptional, you discount them as 'mannish' (as if all men are exceptional -- rubbish). Oh and how I love the not a real woman argument -- nothing potentially offensive there (some of us actually value both our achievements and being a woman btw).


What it looked like to me is people are pointing out that a _minority_ of women are capable, because they are more similar to men in terms of thinking. "Mannish" wasn't meant as an insult or a write-off. 



> So now you want someone to play ignore the virtues of femininity and the talents of women (from the everyday heroines to the truly exceptional) and concentrate instead on the "majority" who are what; unnuturing and incompetent?!


Nope, the majority who are emotional, nurturing, irrational, weak Feelers who aren't "capable" in a more traditionally masculine sense. Or so it would appear that way. 

Maybe I'm being sexist and justifying inaction. Fine. The point of my post was how people start using a minority to represent an entire group, even if that comparison is positive.


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## Toru Okada (May 10, 2011)

Big Daddy Kane said:


> I sometimes feel depressed about being a man. Have you not seen some of the knuckle dragging gorillas who populate this planet? When it comes to intelligence, men dominate at the stupid end very, very heavily. At the genius end, it's still male dominated, but not as heavily as at the stupid end. Everywhere in between you'll find more women than men. So the 'average' intelligence is more or less the same, but the male distribution is much more polarised and extreme than the female distribution, which seems to be more evenly spread out with fewer outerliers either on the stupid or genius scale.


Inside of every man is a big dumb ape who cares only about mating, who will degrade or impair himself just to satisfy his own basic troglodyte instincts to mate with a woman and implant his seed within her.


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## SuperDevastation (Jun 7, 2010)

There are people who lost loved ones and there are people without a home and you're depressed about this? Also look up amazing women like Susan B Anthony and Amelia Earheart then come back.


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## VolkFG4 (Feb 4, 2016)

You know, I've always been a conservative guy, I have been even called a fascist by the left. And I may agree with some of your points, but I don't really believe that makes women inferior.

You're probably a very beautiful, smart woman and all you need is to believe in yourself. 

Now, I see your points. Men built civilizations, but it was women the ones who raised them. Men may hold a monopoly in mathematics and science, but women can also be great scientists, and I believe women are naturally better on emotions and creativity, and the arts than men. I'm an admirer of woman, I love woman. Without them civilization would be dull and gray, and biologically speaking, humans wouldn't even exist! 

Personally speaking I've been to both mixed schools and a men-only school. I got to say men were more efficient on the second one, but we couldn't handle our urges, we had to see girls after school ended. Because we can't live without women, we need them. Both genders must be proud of themselves, and we should all realize that we can't live without each others, that men need women and women need men, and there's nothing bad about that. What you're doing is wrong, and I'm not saying this to offend you, I'm saying this because you need to change. It's necessary to have the belief inf yourself if you want to succeed. Men can have more intelligent minds, but we're also more brutal and cold. Women can be as smart as men with effort, while still retaining their love and natural compassion, and let's be honest, the IQ difference between men and women isn't too different. Men are more likely to be average, while women either have low or high scores. 

So be proud of yourself, love yourself for who you are, not for how you were born. Don't go saying you're superior or inferior than others, we all have our different qualities. Be proud of that differences.


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## Arzazar Szubrasznikarazar (Apr 9, 2015)

neptvne said:


> Women aren't taught that like men are. And I do believe women to be more intelligent and thoughtful then men, especially on an emotional and psychological level. I'd be far more afraid of getting on the bad side of a woman, than a man. Women will find away to ruin your life and strip you of all your pride and dignity, and they can take everything from you and turn everyone against you. Men don't have that type of charm or manipulative power. All they know how to do when someone gets on their bad side is give them a beating. So what? The first option sounds scarier. I have also found women to be more ruthless and less controlled by their emotions then the stereotype for our gender might imply.


Manipulators are the worst.


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## Arzazar Szubrasznikarazar (Apr 9, 2015)

Gore Motel said:


> Inside of every man is a big dumb ape who cares only about mating, who will degrade or impair himself just to satisfy his own basic troglodyte instincts to mate with a woman and implant his seed within her.


Speak for yourself.


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## ShadowsRunner (Apr 24, 2013)

!


Groups where there was less women around, had higher incidents of fighting, war and crime...

so...

I've always felt that there was a aspect of reality that men were not were savvy or naturally aware of, that often times came more naturally to women. I personally, have always slightly had my own hunches that perhaps women were actually the smartest ones. There's just this innate understanding of life that you can't always really explain that women seem to so naturally have in them so much of the time. They really have a natural understanding and appreciation for life, and the world more so, and just sort of a respect as well. They don't try to take from it, or destroy it. They understand and appreciate it.

That's what men do; they take, steal and destroy. All for reasons that most of the time, don't even really make sense or matter. 

And then it's women who are usually left knowing that in the first place, but disregarded and totally ignored. Women always know what's really important or sacred. 

What really mattes in the end if you don't have love? men are sad ugly brutish creatures, at times I think. I cannot help but pity mankind.


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## Toru Okada (May 10, 2011)

arzazar szubrasznikarazar said:


> speak for yourself.


ooga booga!


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## Arzazar Szubrasznikarazar (Apr 9, 2015)

MeteorShadow said:


> !
> 
> 
> Groups where there was less women around, had higher incidents of fighting, war and crime...
> ...


Apparently men only = out of control physical violence, women only = out of control psychological violence.
Of course, right selection of individuals would probably fix the problem.


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## Alpha_Orionis (Jan 18, 2015)

I think you are looking at this issue from the wrong perspective. It seems to me that you think that the problem is women not being like men. But they were never intended to be like men. Men and women are supposed to be complement to each other. It is not that one gender is better. In some situations women will perform better then men. I think that i read about a paper which said that women are generally good at a variety of thing whilst men excel in one or two, but suck at everything else, so it basicly evens out. But we have to look at the bigger picture. And that is that men can not survive without women in a long run, nor can women survive without men. 
We aren't supposed to compare something that is meant so co-exist.


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## katemess (Oct 21, 2015)

Why does one gender have to be superior to the other? Or one person superior to another? How about just do your own thing, find your own strengths and use them, and work on your weaknesses? What's the use in thinking about, or griping over, how women are inferior to men? Where's that attitude going to get you?

I've never felt inferior to anyone. I certainly don't feel inferior to men. There are some things I'm great at, and some things I'm hopeless at and there's not a person alive who isn't the same way. Change your attitude.


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## Vahyavishdapaya (Sep 2, 2014)

Gore Motel said:


> Inside of every man is a big dumb ape who cares only about mating, who will degrade or impair himself just to satisfy his own basic troglodyte instincts to mate with a woman and implant his seed within her.


That's inside _every_ human. Plato called it the appetitive part of the soul, Freud called it the Id, MacLean called it the reptilian brain (the Basal Ganglia, if we want to get technical and neuroscientific). I like MacLean's Triune Brain model the best because it proposes an origin for it, while as far as I know neither Plato nor Freud get into the history of that part of the human psyche. Anyway, this part of our consciousness is concerned most primarily with the four F's - fucking, feasting, fight, or flight. These four F's are about as far as the cognitive faculties of reptiles go, and this is the level most men sink to after a few too many drinks. It's basic, and utterly primitive. it is also the reptilian brain which is most heavily targetted by psychological manipulation in advertising.

This here is a perfect example:






The repetition of the word 'demand', especially the last instance where it's almost yelled out, is a straight shout-out to the reptilian brain.

However it is a bit far to suggest that everyone at all times is controlled by the reptilian part of the brain.


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## series0 (Feb 18, 2013)

Granted men have some advantages and these days men are paying for those advantages in every way possible. The backlash is coming and coming hard. I worry at the wisdom of it from any perspective.

We are clearly a social species and none of us is supposed to truly be self sufficient. The fact that some of us can be self sufficient is confusing and irritating by way of comparison. But it is not necessary to be a mature and worthy person.

Being worthy is inherent. In fact, feelings of worthlessness are a dangerous and self-fulfilling prophecy. I recommend you decide that you are worthy and damn all criticism as foolishness, rather than for one moment decide or accept others decisions that you are unworthy. 

Contribute to the world in ways that you know you can while maintaining this worthiness, this core of self respect. The practical types will lord it over you that their skillset they happen to be good with is best. But in so doing they show themselves to be immature and cruel. You hang on to your expression, your demand of worthiness and put value added when you can.

One critical way that you can also contribute is to support and promote right ideas and right thinking. Lend your voice to the many and support wise thought and action. It is VERY tempting to go along with wrong ideas or unwise ideas, the popular crowd, the typical social groups, and not really stay centered on the concept of universal human worthiness. This common scheme of judgement is what is making you suffer right now. You see your situation and your contribution as not beer commercial worthy and you judge yourself. That is very harsh. You're grinding yourself down. Don't let that horrible world view win.

Even if you are practical mostly, learn to be more ideal. If you are more ideal, learn to be more practical. 

Good luck regardless.


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## OrangeAppled (Jun 26, 2009)

Most men can hunt? Huh? Not in the Western world... 
My friend's husband has to eat out when they have a fight and she refuses to cook because he doesn't even operate a microwave. I wonder how he'd do on an island without a drive-thru or his wife.

Besides, a lot of so-called male accomplishments in history were done on the backs of slaves and women, who were used but not credited as being massive supports which made it all possible. I don't see any glory in that; if most of us had other people to carry out all the mundane, daily tasks for us then we'd be able to maximize our potential also. Some men had that opportunity whereas other men and most women did not. 

The more equality there has been between the sexes in terms of opportunity and not seeing one as inherently inferior to the other, the more ethical societies seem to become. I do see this as an influence of the feminine and not any less significant than making big, tall buildings. Survival ≠ civilization anyway. We are long past survival in developed countries.

The OP also seems to forget that women were not prevented from doing agricultural work in history. Women often participated in most basic survival functions, but arguably were prevented from going beyond a supportive role in other areas of life.



AlanMonTap said:


> That’s true, they are physically weaker (practically useless in today’s society), and they are less intelligent. The intelligence studies are measured with IQ scores, which is mostly logic and reasoning. Logic and reasoning are abilities mostly associated with development of the cognitive functions provided by the left hemisphere of the brain, men are predominantly left-brained. There are multiple intelligences, so it’s not fair to say that men are more intelligent.


The whole left/right brain thing has been debunked for some time now, unless you meant it metaphorically.
As for IQ, if I recall correctly, more men score a very high/low IQ than women do because there are more men at the extremes. So yes, while a man may be more likely to have a very high IQ, a man is also more likely to have a very low one too. Women cluster around the average and above-average scores. This makes the mean score about the same for males/females. There are also the arguments that the studies are not conclusive, have had too many problems, etc. The wider consensus is that sex doesn't make much difference for IQ, although I agree with you that it doesn't seem to measure every kind of intelligence anyway. There are men and women who would not be called logical but certainly would be called geniuses due to great artistic talent (and perhaps logic is more of a "talent" too).

As for physical weakness, if you measure it in terms of sheer muscle strength, okay, maybe. I don't think the female body is inferior, though, it is just suited to performing different functions which are not less valuable than upper body strength. "Weakness" is a misnomer because it implies inferiority and lack of ability to do something physically demanding, which can go beyond muscle strength. Is the male body weaker because it cannot carry and nurture and birth an unborn human, which is quite physically demanding? Most would find that notion ridiculous, myself included.


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## AlanMonTap (Apr 17, 2015)

OrangeAppled said:


> As for IQ, if I recall correctly, more men score a very high/low IQ than women do because there are more men at the extremes. So yes, while a man may be more likely to have a very high IQ, a man is also more likely to have a very low one too. Women cluster around the average and above-average scores


You recall correctly, but men still score higher on average than women. But that's not really important, it would be pointless to further argue this. Women can't be argued with. Joke.



OrangeAppled said:


> As for physical weakness, if you measure it in terms of sheer muscle strength, okay, maybe. I don't think the female body is inferior, though, it is just suited to performing different functions which are not less valuable than upper body strength. "Weakness" is a misnomer because it implies inferiority and lack of ability to do something physically demanding, which can go beyond muscle strength.


I never said the male body was superior, so we agree on what you proceeded to say about different physical functions. "Weakness" is not a misnomer, you are mistaken. The first definition from the dictionary is: "_lacking the power to perform physically demanding tasks; lacking physical strength and energy_." That's what I meant.



OrangeAppled said:


> Is the male body weaker because it cannot carry and nurture and birth an unborn human, which is quite physically demanding? Most would find that notion ridiculous, myself included.


I think it's retarded that you even say that. Your comparison is absurd, completely flawed, and lacks any logical reasoning behind it.


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## OrangeAppled (Jun 26, 2009)

AlanMonTap said:


> You recall correctly, but *men still score higher on average than women*. But that's not really important, it would be pointless to further argue this. Women can't be argued with. Joke.


No, there's not consensus on that conclusion. 




> I never said the male body was superior, so we agree on what you proceeded to say about different physical functions. "Weakness" is not a misnomer, you are mistaken. The first definition from the dictionary is: "_*lacking the power to perform physically demanding tasks*; lacking physical strength and energy_." That's what I meant.
> 
> I think it's retarded that you even say that. Your comparison is absurd, completely flawed, and lacks any logical reasoning behind it.


How so?
Carrying and birthing a child is not physically demanding?
I think it's "retarded" and illogical that you would not consider it physically demanding.


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## AlanMonTap (Apr 17, 2015)

OrangeAppled said:


> How so?
> Carrying and birthing a child is not physically demanding?
> I think it's "retarded" and illogical that you would not consider it physically demanding.


It's retarded because your comparison involves matters that are *incomparable*. It is anatomically impossible for a man to give birth.

What you said is as absurd as saying: "Is the male body weaker because it cannot flop it's wings to fly or use it's gills to breathe underwater, both which are quite physically demanding? Most would find that notion ridiculous, myself included."

You are mistaking "can not" with "less efficient at".


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## piano (May 21, 2015)

MuChApArAdOx said:


> No it is not her Tee function , it is her Ti function. The OP posted a very skewed negative thread, I made a point of pointing out I don't get Ti and the subjective manner behind it. You don't like it, too bad, I didn't leave it to please you. Comprehending the post was easy, comprehending when in the name of GOD this person would spew out so much subjective material was baffling to say the least.


but that doesn't make sense because scientia posted a similar thread and she values Te over Ti. what's wrong with asking questions? both are clearly caught in a funk of sorts and that funk is what's led them to have these thoughts. i'm tempted to retract my previous post now because although i could see why it would've wound you up initially, attributing it to a person's function(s) isn't the right way to go about it.


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## MuChApArAdOx (Jan 24, 2011)

i cant play the piano said:


> but that doesn't make sense because scientia posted a similar thread and she values Te over Ti. what's wrong with asking questions? both are clearly caught in a funk of sorts and that funk is what's led them to have these thoughts. i'm tempted to retract my previous post now because although i could see why it would've wound you up initially, attributing it to a person's function(s) isn't the right way to go about it.


I know Te when I read it, PerC is made up of Ti and Fe. The thread was insulting to women, I wasn't motivated to ask questions. Attributing to a persons functions isn't the right way to go about it, well well well. Do you not read the titles to threads around here. How about Fi is useless, hum, I don't remember anyone trolling that thread complaining. The only time anyone gets an Infraction around here to my knowledge is when Ti or Ni, or INFJ is offended or Insulted. Well report me If you don't like what I have to say, because I don't care anymore about offending anyone, the world is offended, time for everyone to grow a pair and not take everything so damn personally. Anywho I am not going to argue with you, so stop trolling me and get lost.


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## Sangmu (Feb 18, 2014)

Always avoid the woman who says: "_All my friends are guys. Less drama._"

100% of the time, the chick saying this is fucking insane and that's why she can't engage with women without shit hitting the fan. So she hangs around guys who want to sleep with her and pretends they're her friends. And more often than that, she barely has any men in her life and she's just saying it to be antagonistic.

When we talk about men in this culture we're essentially talking about the XSTJ archetype of the father - which both XSTJ men and women encompass. Pride/Duty/Service/Selflessness. Men are not born with that. They're pressured to *imitate* it, sure, but only a minority of men have actually been born with those traits or have worked to authentically develop them. The same goes for women. 

While the XSTP type is also stereotypically "masculine", it are also often histrionic, capricious and selfish - masculinity in it's machismo form (note, I'm not saying that INDIVIDUAL XSTPs are like or this, or they don't have an invaluable role in society. I'm just talking archetypes). 

Pettiness, while often framed a "female," - and cited to be a reason they should be kept out of leadership roles - is actually a universal human trait rooted in severely low self-esteem. If you cannot die unto yourself, it's not because you're female. It's because you take yourself too seriously because you have no "self" that rooted apart from others. If you've never encountered a guy who is petty, useless, status-conscious and scared (what OP is framing women to be) you're either sheltered of lying.

If OP isn't funny, intelligent, innovative, selfless, universally compassionate, a provider, or responsible - it's not because she's female. In fact, her reasoning behind her flaws is likely a defense mechanism. She's projecting her flaws onto women in general so that she doesn't need to make significant changes or take responsibility.

Bottom line: If you don't how the women in you're life are conducting themselves, be the example that life can be different. And if you're too weak to do so, why are you bitching?


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## Lelu (Jun 1, 2015)

One post in, this thread looks like absolute gold.

On a real note though, why would being a woman be a _cause_ for most of these negative traits? That's a ridiculous claim. At best, only _correlations_ (with MANY other factors associated) could be found, but none that could hold an individual to an absolute.


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## AlanMonTap (Apr 17, 2015)

@Macrosapien

You didn't use my own point, you entirely missed it. I wasn't debating the biological reasons *why* women look for stable men with good jobs and teach their daughter to do that exact same thing, that is obvious. My point is *what* they do and *how* they do it.

Of course they want stability, security and survival (frivolous desires included), that's common sense. I'll try to explain it to you as simple as possible. My point is that women are perfectly capable of getting those things themselves. They don't need a hard-working man with a nice job. *They need to be hard-working women with a nice job.* Do you finally see my point? They don't need to be parasites.

I'd never teach my daughter to do that. I'd much rather teach her to be independent and hard-working. Tell her to marry a man that loves her dearly, not a man that pays for her stuff. That's regressive.

And to be honest, I'm not surprised that you had to be raised by a single mother, I figured as much. While debating about strength, the only argument you gave me is about three things; higher pain tolerance, pregnancy and menstruation.

First of all, men have a higher pain tolerance, and that is a proven fact. I never said women don't have a hard time with pregnancy and menstruation, of course they do. But women are not stronger than men, like you say. Nor men stronger than women. I wasn't talking about the propagation of our species.

You claiming that they're getting the "short end of the stick" just because of menstruation and pregnancy, is frankly, preposterous. It is a fact that men have it harder in society (western), I gave you facts, I gave you statistics, and all you said about that was basically "times are changing".


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

@Mair
both genders have their (general) strengths and weaknesses. if you're feeling down, some of the perks of being a woman include
1) increased connection between the brain hemispheres
2) more vivid awareness of color
3) intelligent are more likely to have balanced skills profiles. for example: men who score high in math and science typically have poor social skills and struggle the the communication aspect of the job market. however, the same has NOT been shown to be true of females who score high in math and science. in fact, their communication skills are usually _better_ than their peers.
4) longer life expectancy
5) greater flexibility


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## Lady D (Mar 17, 2013)

Cheveyo said:


> Funnily enough, they tried a Men vs Women survivor. I think it was the Dutch version of it. Both groups had some tension at first, but after things settled, all the men took to whatever role they could that best helped the group. Some would hunt, others would forage, some built shelters and stuff, etc.
> 
> The women on the other hand refused to work with each other. It seemed like nobody wanted to be leader and at the same time, nobody wanted to listen to anyone else.



I've read about it, too.


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## marblecloud95 (Aug 12, 2015)

Miss Anne Thrope said:


> For OP, I am providing some wiki links that might interest you that you can look into further than just Wikipedia. Hopefully you will seek out more information and in time come to feel better about being female:
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thompson's_psychology_of_women
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_differences_in_psychology
> ...


Feels like pity party tbh.


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## Doktorin Zylinder (May 10, 2015)

Are male and female brains really different?

Some may find this interesting. I'm not sure if I'll actually comment on the thread at this point, though.


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## Jordgubb (Oct 5, 2013)

I like my gender. Growing up in the country I was never aware that women weren't capable. All I saw was strong, independent, stubborn-ass-females.


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## charlie.elliot (Jan 22, 2014)

The biggest thing that makes women what they are, in comparison to men (aside from reproductive roles) is having been treated as inferior forever. 

If the position was reversed and women were the dominant gender, you'd be saying all these same things about men. 

"Women hold up half the sky." Also I remember reading in either "The Beauty Myth" or "Half the Sky" (can't remember which) that historically (since the beginning of time), women have done approximately 5 times more work than men. It makes sense, because when you're in control, (which men are), what's the one thing you're going to palm off on somebody lower-ranked than you? Work. 


Don't believe everything you think.


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## xisnotx (Mar 20, 2014)

Women are better cooks than men so cheer up women youre not that bad at all.


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## Mee2 (Jan 30, 2014)

I'm sure someone's already said this but, even if you don't think women are oppressed, or even if you're weird and think they're _privileged_ (which is nuts), there's still far too many successful women - and not just "successful... for a woman", successful by _any_ standards; better than the best men, even - for the following argument to make sense: "I'm a woman, therefore I'll never amount to anything." For that to be true, you'd have to be able to say honestly that you can't think of a single woman who's ever accomplished anything of note, ever. An absurd notion. Empirically false, conclusively. Not even worth considering. 

I think the most you can say is that you don't personally feel like you could ever be one of these amazing women. In other words, it's about you, personally, rather than you being a woman. 

But there's more to it than that. Even immensely successful people are often unable to shake the feeling that they're not good enough. At the same time there are plenty of completely ordinary people who are quite content with their place in the world (and why shouldn't they be?). These feelings aren't rooted in the fact that you're a woman, nor are they rooted in any perceived inadequacies. It's got to be something else. I'm not sure what, but I imagine it will help if you can shut these thoughts down. Even if it doesn't, they're just silly.


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## Metalize (Dec 18, 2014)

i cant play the piano said:


> mair's post is offensive to all women. paradox's post is offensive to all Ti users. neither is right.


The MBTI thing's not even offensive, it's just really dumb. Pseudo-reasoning.

I don't find Mair's position offensive because she presents some arguments for the way she's thinking, that are based on at least empirical observations. Plus, we can see she's upset about it and probably (per the title) hoping that someone will prove her wrong about it. Why kick someone who's down while reaching out for help in an honest way?


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## Chesire Tower (Jan 19, 2013)




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## piano (May 21, 2015)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> @Mair
> both genders have their (general) strengths and weaknesses. if you're feeling down, some of the perks of being a woman include
> 1) increased connection between the brain hemispheres
> 2) more vivid awareness of color
> ...


true story. i can do the splits.


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## lernulo (Feb 10, 2016)

OK, I have readed almost all the thread, and I have seen all the statistics you have put into it, and I continue thinking as before.
Women are the best thing o the world.
They are more intelligent
They are more sexies
They have many advantages 
Every mum has a son who would give his life for her
And the form you live is much more wonderful than us, but there are two things I would never change 
1. Being two perfect people in a room is bad
2. Being a man is the only form to completely please her

Translated into a more scientific language they are much more emotional able than us, but they still need our point of view to survive, it isn't bad, it makes us complementary, so as I think all comparison is no more than a waste of time. When I'm with a woman I just think 
What does I feel? And what does she feel?


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## SuperDevastation (Jun 7, 2010)

@OrangeAppled

Male accomplishments were done by males, don't be a sexist and don't be a liar. Forcing people to do anything doesn't count as an accomplishment. Also women are the ones who often date and give support to bad men.


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## SuperDevastation (Jun 7, 2010)

@Amaranthine

Men aren't more desperate, you made that up to feed your ego.


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## SuperDevastation (Jun 7, 2010)

@sweetraglansweater

You're confusing western society with middle eastern society, cut it out. Also just as many women are desperate for compliments and admiration as men are.


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## ArmchairCommie (Dec 27, 2015)

Temperance said:


> Most people don't NEED to have sex to succeed in life like most people need a car. I can't believe you are even making the comparison.












Guess what else is located on the bottom rung of the pyramid besides air, food, and water? While masturbation also definitely an option that many of us take, myself included, you can not deny the fact that the urge to reproduce is a biological imperative. We are very fortunate that in this day and age birth control devices are an option, so for you to suggest that we ignore them is very foolish and ignorant.



Temperance said:


> Oh geez man. Do you really not know the difference between castration and a vasectomy? Castration is not the analogous equivalent to sterilization. If you had said vasectomy, I would say yes, you could get away with suggesting that to me if I didn't want kids. But that is probably why you had to use castration, or else you wouldn't be able to make such a ridiculous argument.
> 
> And no, there is no violation of anyone's right to live. Again, in the current paradigm, it is the child, if anything, getting their right to live violated.
> 
> And with rape, this is where many try to make an exception. But abortion in cases of rape is still killing a life just as much as if it was consensual. Without this admission, the argument on the morality of this course of action cannot move forward.


Both castration and vasectomy achieve the same goal of stopping a male's ability to reproduce, the only difference is the amount of disfigurement and/or pain it inflicts. Yes it is a violation of someone's right to live. In fact denying someone an abortion is a double violation of someone's right to live. The first violation is that of the mother who will be forever burdened by their new child. The second is the child him/herself who will be forced to live in a household where the parent(s) will likely be unable to properly supply for them. Do you really want to force out a baby that is destined to live a life of poverty and despair? 

Also please note that I am not advocating for late term abortions. But in cases where the "child" is little more than a blob of cells there is no difference between removing it and removing a cancerous tumor. You have cut your hair countless times throughout your life, is that murder? If you have ever disposed of your semen before it could reach an egg and form a fetus is that murder? If you said yes to any of the two questions above then I could see your reasoning against abortions, but otherwise the idea that a blob of cells is fully human is insane.

You act as those all killings, no matter the reason are equally wrong. What about in the case of war, where the soldiers of various countries murder each other by the thousands? I think that war should always be the measure of last resort but when it is used than those deaths are justified in order to accomplish the goal of serving the greater good. On the other hand rape is a heinous crime and while I am not saying that all rapists should be killed their blobs of cells should be just as one would cut off the leg of a soldier who suffered under a biochemical attack. Where the cells in that soldiers' leg responsible for the injury of him? No of course not, as cells are not fully human and as such do not have rights. Similarly a blob of cells is not fully human and they also do not have any rights.

If you wish to continue this argument then we can set up another thread for it as this specific thread should have died already many weeks ago.


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## salt (Jun 22, 2015)

i get depressed every time i see this thread. typical Fe problems. can you just, ignore that and do whatever you want? girls are much more capable than society raises us to be, instead of feeling depressed about how women turn out to be, being raised in such society, why dont you take some action to change that, no matter how small? personally i find just being myself is enough to rebel against the system, becuz no girl is born a typical girl, im not gonna fit that box for NOTHING


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## charlie.elliot (Jan 22, 2014)

salt said:


> i get depressed every time i see this thread. typical Fe problems. can you just, ignore that and do whatever you want? girls are much more capable than society raises us to be, instead of feeling depressed about how women turn out to be, being raised in such society, why dont you take some action to change that, no matter how small? personally i find just being myself is enough to rebel against the system, becuz no girl is born a typical girl, im not gonna fit that box for NOTHING


YES!!! :happy: :happy: 

I think I was trying to articulate this earlier in this thread but no one paid attention or something I don't remember.


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## Worriedfunction (Jun 2, 2011)

Learn to feel bad for being a human being.

Equality yo! Also averages smaverages.

I'm doing pretty pathetically if I am to look at myself under a mainstream lense of 'man'.


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## Mammon (Jul 12, 2012)

Mair said:


> I know it's probably silly, but I sometimes absolutely hate it.
> 
> I believe women are inferior to men. Women are physically weaker. Women are on average less intelligent than men. Women are less capable in almost everything except giving birth.
> 
> ...


This came to mind.

http://www.returnofkings.com/32053/this-accidental-experiment-shows-the-superiority-of-patriarchy

Females have the power to make men feel at the top of the world btw. With your adoring and shit. Yeah.


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## Ghostsoul (May 10, 2014)

...
I don't know why I still come to this website.

Also, whining to a professional psychologists might help with your self-esteem issues more than whining to some freaks on the internet.
Just a tip.


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## imaphoenix (Sep 11, 2012)




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## ctrlfeelings (Feb 5, 2016)

Mair said:


> I know it's probably silly, but I sometimes absolutely hate it.
> 
> I believe women are inferior to men. Women are physically weaker. Women are on average less intelligent than men. Women are less capable in almost everything except giving birth.
> 
> ...


1. You have the strength of mind to think this out.
2. You have the courage to analyze and reveal your weaknesses. Most men wont admit that they can't live without a woman.
3. You respect motherhood.
4. You realize that because of the emotional disturbances you suffer from, you may not be a good mother.
5. For the above 4 reasons I think you're pretty awesome and stronger than a man!

Thank you for the post.


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## cohortphantoms (Mar 7, 2016)

Mair said:


> I know it's probably silly, but I sometimes absolutely hate it.
> 
> I believe women are inferior to men. Women are physically weaker. Women are on average less intelligent than men. Women are less capable in almost everything except giving birth.
> 
> ...


Just in case it hasnt been mentioned.. Have you talked to a therapist? Might help with these kind of feelings and thoughts


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## redneck15 (Mar 21, 2011)

Soul Motel said:


> Inside of every man is a big dumb ape who cares only about mating, who will degrade or impair himself just to satisfy his own basic troglodyte instincts to mate with a woman and implant his seed within her.


This masochistic crap really gets on my nerves. Speak for yourself.


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## Toru Okada (May 10, 2011)

URLteenth said:


> This masochistic crap really gets on my nerves. Speak for yourself.


You:


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## Mange (Jan 9, 2011)

I sometimes feel depressed that this thread is still happening


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## redneck15 (Mar 21, 2011)

Soul Motel said:


> You:


You could also decide to compare everything to lion social behavior with equal validity. Or wolves. Or ants.

Apes are ugly. Pick another animal.


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## redneck15 (Mar 21, 2011)

xrx said:


> I sometimes feel depressed that this thread is still happening


It's so ripe with targets! Almost everyone has biases here that color their responses with strong feelings and irrational non-sequiters. *sequiturs* ????


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## Blessed Frozen Cells (Apr 3, 2013)

This is why more people should follow individualism and be a different of kind of crazy like me.


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## bruh (Oct 27, 2015)

This thread: Degrading men is not frowned upon because we subconsciously know men will still be superior


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## bruh (Oct 27, 2015)

MisterPerfect said:


> Yes, women are physically weaker that is sadly true. A woman can not get as much muscle mass working out, as a man can working out. However since not everyone works out if you work out you might be stronger than a lot of males, since you work out. Everything else however is your massive inferiority complex that you are trying to push on all women. So sorry but all women dont suck, its just you, and the only reason you do, is that you choose to think so. If you stop thinking you are horrible for being a female you can accomplish so much more! Just think about it! If you are inspired to be garbage though, be garbage, its up to you. Gender is not what is holding you back.


I thank you for being a breath of fresh air and for wording out my exact same thoughts


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## KayleeShy (Mar 5, 2016)

Don't know if anyone has said anything about this, but averages are misleading. Think about it, the average person has one testicle and one ovary and one breast. And if I'm recalling the numbers right, the differences aren't that much.

And, if it helps any, I know a woman who is captain of a local fire department. I have a degree in physics and I've met women in my physics and math classes who were much better than me and better than most of the guys. 

I have had the pleasure to work with women in IT and in a chem lab where I was the IT Coordinator. And those women were far from dumb.


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## marbleous (Feb 21, 2014)

We evolve to our roles. If there was an all female society, a portion of females would fill once-male roles to the appreciation of their peers. Life would go on!

But we can't let ourselves be limited by expectation. If you want to be smarter, then study. Stronger, then work out. Tougher, then practice your reactions. More focused, then have a routine. If you don't want to be what you perceive as a weak female then work hard to be a strong female. Achievers don't believe in those kind of restricting viewpoints.


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## marbleous (Feb 21, 2014)

KayleeShy said:


> Don't know if anyone has said anything about this, but averages are misleading. Think about it, the average person has one testicle and one ovary and one breast. And if I'm recalling the numbers right, the differences aren't that much.
> 
> And, if it helps any, I know a woman who is captain of a local fire department. I have a degree in physics and I've met women in my physics and math classes who were much better than me and better than most of the guys.
> 
> I have had the pleasure to work with women in IT and in a chem lab where I was the IT Coordinator. And those women were far from dumb.


Yes! Thank you for your examples.


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## StarFollowed (May 5, 2014)

flamesabers said:


> I think you're missing what she's saying. She didn't say there are no prominent female writers, she said there was very few.
> 
> What's with the blatant assumptions about men? Do you have a chip on your shoulder or something?


I'm not assuming anything. Men who have been raised to threaten woman with violence instead of learning to channel their anger/emotions into something productive will, unsurprisingly, turn on the woman in their lives as a means to gain control over themselves and the situation. Woman will tear you down through words, which can be worse than any physical beating is what I'm saying.

I'm not saying that ALL men here will do such a thing or that men are the enemy--none of that. Just the ones who haven't been raised right.

And I know what she's saying. Yes, woman don't make as much muscle mass when working out, but that doesn't mean they're _inferior_ to men or are less intelligent. Intelligence has nothing to do with gender.

EDIT: My biggest issue with this thread is that she's basically put men on some pedestal. I understand that, to an extent, she is trying to show empathy for the opposite sex, but being empathetic doesn't mean putting yourself down in the process.


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## flamesabers (Nov 20, 2012)

StarFollowed said:


> EDIT: My biggest issue with this thread is that she's basically put men on some pedestal. I understand that, to an extent, she is trying to show empathy for the opposite sex, but being empathetic doesn't mean putting yourself down in the process.


I think she's just explaining what's on her mind. She also puts herself down for having a mental illness. Do you also think she's putting people who are mentally healthy on a pedestal? I don't think she's putting men on a pedestal. Rather, as the title of the thread states, she's sometimes depressed about being a woman. It's not uncommon to feel unhappy about an aspect of ourselves, whether it be age, sex, race, occupation, marital status, health, body shape/size, etc. I don't equate this to putting another age group, sex, race, whatever on a pedestal.


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## StarFollowed (May 5, 2014)

flamesabers said:


> I think she's just explaining what's on her mind. She also puts herself down for having a mental illness. Do you also think she's putting people who are mentally healthy on a pedestal? I don't think she's putting men on a pedestal. Rather, as the title of the thread states, she's sometimes depressed about being a woman. It's not uncommon to feel unhappy about an aspect of ourselves, whether it be age, sex, race, occupation, marital status, health, body shape/size, etc. I don't equate this to putting another age group, sex, race, whatever on a pedestal.


Well, lets say I agree with all you said. How is saying that men are more creative, can survive on their own, etc., related to depression? Now I agree that depression is dark cloud over your head, but basically, she is saying that woman are still inferior to men just because they didn't have as many opportunities back in the day.


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## Psychophant (Nov 29, 2013)

.


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## flamesabers (Nov 20, 2012)

StarFollowed said:


> Well, lets say I agree with all you said. How is saying that men are more creative, can survive on their own, etc., related to depression? Now I agree that depression is dark cloud over your head, but basically, she is saying that woman are still inferior to men just because they didn't have as many opportunities back in the day.


When feeling useless due to depression, it's very easy to blame yourself for anything and everything and to assume everyone else is in a better position than you. Instead of saying men, she could say her family, friends, co-workers are more creative and better able to survive than she is. Would you say she is putting these groups on a pedestal? I would say no. I think it's just a matter of assuming anyone that is not you is doing better in life. I highly doubt she's some sort of male supremacist.

You didn't answer my earlier question though. Do you think she's putting mentally healthy people on a pedestal? She said she would be a horrible mother because of her mental illness.

Ultimately I think once she starts to feel better and doesn't perceive herself as being useless anymore, her current perspective on the sexes will change. She even admits her perspective is silly, which is a good sign I think. I think treating the cause of depression rather than just the symptoms is a far more effective solution in the long-term.


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## Gilfoyle (Jan 19, 2015)

To me it seems that this could be an illusion rooted in mass psychology, disguised as a gender problem.


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## ShadowsRunner (Apr 24, 2013)

All the women in my life have been stronger then the men, at least in my formative years.

Typically, I think people are more complicated and complex then the sum of their parts.


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## BlueWings (Jan 27, 2015)

Don't blame it on your gender.


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## ShadowsRunner (Apr 24, 2013)

I cannot help but feel the idea of "equality" is often misunderstood, or has difference definitions and concepts.

I think there are basically just "regular" men and women who fall into more traditional or easy to understand gender roles and the like, and then there is usually everyone else who are generally more difficult to label.

I cannot help but think that quite often, all things considered traditionally feminine in our society are not respected or understood as well as they should be.


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## StarFollowed (May 5, 2014)

> I cannot help but think that quite often, all things considered traditionally feminine in our society are not respected or understood as well as they should be.


This I can agree with. I'm stereotypically feminine offline. I may not wear flowery dresses but I like to look feminine. To me, looking feminine doesn't mean having your tits and ass out for the world to ogle at. I have self-respect for myself and respect everyone. I can understand self-deprecating humor but I don't really think fond of those "feminine" woman who bring themselves down in the process. That's not really cool, and it gives men more reason to control you when they realize you think lowly of your own gender anyway.


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## Eos_Machai (Feb 3, 2013)

I would love to be a woman. The notion of women being inferior is total bullshit. Makes me sad that people believes it true.


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## Alles_Paletti (May 15, 2013)

Oh, I didn't know that the average person of my own gender should define me. 

I should go brush up on stereotypes before I act too individually.


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## Riven (Jan 17, 2015)

Eos_Machai said:


> I would love to be a woman. The notion of women being inferior is total bullshit. Makes me sad that people believes it true.


Most people who hold that view aren't from wealthy and politically stable societies though. Many have one dominant culture and ethnicity, which might make them closed to new ideas.


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## INFPsyche (Nov 13, 2014)

I think society as a whole views it this way but i don't honestly think men are superior to women AT ALL.. we're just different.

I wish i were a man sometimes though.. I think a lot of things would be much much easier.. and not so much because of ability but simply because of what society allows more or less.. The behaviors that are found more acceptable for men are behaviors i would find to be greatly helpful in getting ahead in life. People constantly telling us to be quiet and look pretty really isn't helping anything..

Like men are viewed as confident whether they are or not. Women are viewer as ditzy and unsure of themselves whether they are or not and then both sexes just conform to societies preconceptions.. It's not helpful.

Like if i act confident I'm told to second guess myself and if a male acts confident (even if he's wrong) he's told he's right.. either that or nobody gives a shit..

This is just in everyday matters. I know men are challenged both in school (especially college level) and as they work their way up in life but like as far as general behavior goes it's really how it is..


Oh boy .. I'm all pissed off now.. ..


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## flamesabers (Nov 20, 2012)

INFPsyche said:


> I wish i were a man sometimes though.. I think a lot of things would be much much easier.. and not so much because of ability but simply because of what society allows more or less.. The behaviors that are found more acceptable for men are behaviors i would find to be greatly helpful in getting ahead in life. People constantly telling us to be quiet and look pretty really isn't helping anything..


The next time you feel this way I strongly suggest you think about how disposable the male sex is. Contrary to what Hillary Clinton says, men by far are the primary victims of war. Society doesn't care about my sex having to register for the draft or coming home in body bags. In contrast, look at the firestorm that is going on about the possibility of women having to register for the draft. I only wish the fervor that is being generated to keep women from having to register for the draft was also used to abolish the draft entirely. It's disgusting I think how blatant it is that society values one sex over the other. If the draft is ever reactivated in our lifetime, I'll bet you'll be very grateful you're not a man.


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## Laze (Feb 19, 2015)

I do like the fact that I'm the physically stronger gender, because sometimes it's impossible to settle things with a discussion with certain individuals. In our physical based existence having a physically superior body in terms of strength and fighting capabilities is quite handy, but I suppose it's extremely rare you'll ever be in a situation where this actually matters due our modern ways of living and social infrastructure ect. But still, I like having this base advantage.


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## MuChApArAdOx (Jan 24, 2011)

whenever i feel depressed about being a woman i wear a strap-on, that feeling passes quickly


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## Riven (Jan 17, 2015)

MuChApArAdOx said:


> whenever i feel depressed about being a woman i wear a strap-on, that feeling passes quickly


Where can I get those fake boobs? Sometimes, being a man gets boring


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## MuChApArAdOx (Jan 24, 2011)

SJWDefener said:


> Where can I get those fake boobs? Sometimes, being a man gets boring


ask a transgender or cross dresser, they should be able to point you in the right direction.


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## flamesabers (Nov 20, 2012)

MuChApArAdOx said:


> whenever i feel depressed about being a woman i wear a strap-on, that feeling passes quickly


It sounds like you found a way to relieve your penis envy.


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## MuChApArAdOx (Jan 24, 2011)

flamesabers said:


> It sounds like you found a way to relieve your penis envy.


nah i have other ways i love to enjoy penis . having one is not one of them.


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## Riven (Jan 17, 2015)

MuChApArAdOx said:


> nah i have other ways i love to enjoy penis . having one is not one of them.


I wonder if you could obtain pleasure from having the fake boobs crossdressers wear, because of how the human brain works. There was an experiement where the participant hid their real hand under some cloth or something and done it so they can only see the prosthetic hand. They were then told to try and harm that fake hand, and their brain had the same fight or flight response when doing it or something.


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## flamesabers (Nov 20, 2012)

MuChApArAdOx said:


> flamesabers said:
> 
> 
> > It sounds like you found a way to relieve your penis envy.
> ...


If you had a real penis you would have no need to wear a strap-on. The same goes for fake boobs.


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## flamesabers (Nov 20, 2012)

SJWDefener said:


> MuChApArAdOx said:
> 
> 
> > nah i have other ways i love to enjoy penis . having one is not one of them.
> ...


Fake body parts don't have nerves in them though. As fun as it might be to wear a fake body part, it's nothing compared to the real deal.


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## MuChApArAdOx (Jan 24, 2011)

SJWDefener said:


> I wonder if you could obtain pleasure from having the fake boobs crossdressers wear, because of how the human brain works. There was an experiement where the participant hid their real hand under some cloth or something and done it so they can only see the prosthetic hand. They were then told to try and harm that fake hand, and their brain had the same fight or flight response when doing it or something.


i'm not an expert with cross dressing however common sense tells me because you have no real feeling in fake body parts there is no way to feel pleasure. if a cross dresser tells me he can feel something it only makes his mental illness appear stronger than he thinks. wearing one because you want to be a women is not the same as actually believing you can feel something. idk, i don't have a lot of experience with cross dressers , i don't travel in their circle of girls rofl.


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## flamesabers (Nov 20, 2012)

MuChApArAdOx said:


> i'm not an expert with cross dressing however common sense tells me because you have no real feeling in fake body parts there is no way to feel pleasure. if a cross dresser tells me he can feel something it only makes his mental illness appear stronger than he thinks. wearing one because you want to be a women is not the same as actually believing you can feel something. idk, i don't have a lot of experience with cross dressers , i don't travel in their circle of girls rofl.


From my understanding, the reason why crossdressers use items like breast forms and the like is to be able to fill out feminine clothing like bras, corsets, skirts, etc. the way a woman's body does. It has nothing to do with expecting to have real feeling in breast forms or whatever. It's no different than female crossdressers using a fake beard, a strap-on or whatever. It's all about appearance. To grow real breasts or real beards, you'll need hormones for that.


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## vimalahot (May 2, 2014)

Mair said:


> I know it's probably silly, but I sometimes absolutely hate it.
> 
> I believe women are inferior to men. Women are physically weaker. Women are on average less intelligent than men. Women are less capable in almost everything except giving birth.
> 
> ...


OK....so since you concede men are superior, then it lends to us taking away your right to vote.

as for men and women being left on an island, i dunno. i don't really see any evidence that is the case. it's "open-minded" to accept things on evidence or persuasion. 

as for less thinkers, compare how many black thinkers or artists were around in 1830 in the USA compared to today......there IS a reason why...


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## flamesabers (Nov 20, 2012)

vimalahot said:


> as for less thinkers, compare how many black thinkers or artists were around in 1830 in the USA compared to today......there IS a reason why...


Are you saying that white women were bound in chains in the US during the 1830s? It's hardly like all the white men were getting college degrees while all the white women were stuck with a 3rd grade education. During that time your level of education was mostly dependent on how wealthy your family was, not whether you were a male or female.


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## INFPsyche (Nov 13, 2014)

flamesabers said:


> The next time you feel this way I strongly suggest you think about how disposable the male sex is. Contrary to what Hillary Clinton says, men by far are the primary victims of war. Society doesn't care about my sex having to register for the draft or coming home in body bags. In contrast, look at the firestorm that is going on about the possibility of women having to register for the draft. I only wish the fervor that is being generated to keep women from having to register for the draft was also used to abolish the draft entirely. It's disgusting I think how blatant it is that society values one sex over the other. If the draft is ever reactivated in our lifetime, I'll bet you'll be very grateful you're not a man.


Personally i very much desired to join the marines or army and protect my country when i was younger but was strongly dissuaded by my father.. You are only further proving my point.. Why can't women do this and why is it I'm not looked at as an equal. Why do you think women don't desire a responsibility to protect the country in the same way as (some) men do???

Fucking absolutely, completely and totally maddening.. Jesus Christ..


You obviously didn't read my post. I said i wanted to be a man not because of ability but because what they are allowed and here you are just expecting that i have no interest in such a topic because I'm female. Proving my point.. 

When i was young g.i. Jane was the type of girl i looked up to.. not Barbie doll. The misconceptions of women are just disgusting..


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## Denature (Nov 6, 2015)

INFPsyche said:


> Personally i very much desired to join the marines or army and protect my country when i was younger but was strongly dissuaded by my father.. You are only further proving my point.. Why can't women do this and why is it I'm not looked at as an equal. Why do you think women don't desire a responsibility to protect the country in the same way as (some) men do???
> 
> Fucking absolutely, completely and totally maddening.. Jesus Christ..


_
Yeah, women should die for their country too and defend the land that gives them their rights. It's only fair.
_


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## INFPsyche (Nov 13, 2014)

Poizon said:


> _
> Yeah, women should die for their country too and defend the land that gives them their rights. It's only fair.
> _


Thank you!!.. Ilysm ..

If that's what we choose it should be our right.. and at the very least shouldn't be laughed at..




Must permanently abandon this topic now.. getting so pissed off its almost unbearable..


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## Denature (Nov 6, 2015)

INFPsyche said:


> Thank you!!.. Ilysm ..
> 
> If that's what we choose it should be our right.. and at the very least shouldn't be laughed at..


_
I don't like the idea of war to begin with but women make up half the population. They have just as much say as men do and as much as I dislike the idea of women going to war, it's only fair that they should be allowed to serve their country.

Honestly when it comes down to it, I imagine that a country that has to use its women to fight are desperate. Like they don't have enough people. That's just my impression though.
_


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## ShadowsRunner (Apr 24, 2013)

* *




A University of Wisconsin study from 1990 to 2005 based on communications, motor skills, morals, and general cognition (general math, science, etc.) on infants and young children of both genders. The study found that 78% of the skills had no variance that can suggest that either gender is superior. The rest was split almost evenly between the two genders. Females were slightly better at computation while boys were slightly better at general problem solving.

In 2005, a Harvard University study compiled and analyzed 111 other studies to create a final conclusion on the debate. The conclusion was that men and women, as early as birth, have essentially the same cognitive ability. The only minor variances among both genders is based on genetic development of their individual cognition, but that is not gender related.


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## flamesabers (Nov 20, 2012)

INFPsyche said:


> flamesabers said:
> 
> 
> > The next time you feel this way I strongly suggest you think about how disposable the male sex is. Contrary to what Hillary Clinton says, men by far are the primary victims of war. Society doesn't care about my sex having to register for the draft or coming home in body bags. In contrast, look at the firestorm that is going on about the possibility of women having to register for the draft. I only wish the fervor that is being generated to keep women from having to register for the draft was also used to abolish the draft entirely. It's disgusting I think how blatant it is that society values one sex over the other. If the draft is ever reactivated in our lifetime, I'll bet you'll be very grateful you're not a man.
> ...


Do you understand the difference between being drafted and volunteering? If you were drafted, it wouldn't matter what you or your father wanted, you would be forced to join the military. If you didn't show up, you would get sent to jail. Women have never been drafted, while men have been drafted since the time slavery was legal in this country. 

How would you like to be forced to join the military? Women have never had to bear this burden while men today still have to register for the draft when they turn 18. It's female privilege to be exempt from an obligation men have to bear on the basis of gender.


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## flamesabers (Nov 20, 2012)

INFPsyche said:


> Poizon said:
> 
> 
> > _
> ...


Imagine If you didn't choose to be in the military. That's what the draft is. I had to register for it because I am a male. You didn't have to register because you're a female. 

There is a huge difference betweeing choosing to be in the military and being forced to be in the military. Maybe you're not getting this because you didn't have to register for the draft?


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## flamesabers (Nov 20, 2012)

Poizon said:


> INFPsyche said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you!!.. Ilysm ..
> ...


There is a big difference between being allowed to serve and being forced to serve. Men have done both. Women have always joined freely. No woman had ever been drafted in the military.


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## camous (Jul 12, 2015)

I am very surprised at reading the OP, because I don't feel this way. I don't deny there are differences between male and female but what you become is up to you at some point even if your biology will have some impact but so does your environment. You make all this claims but on what are they based?
Maybe you are as a person the way you describe woman, but it seems that being a woman is like an excuse to explain all of that. So at the end you don't have to reflect on your behaviour and fix what you don't like you can just sigh and think oh well I am only a woman. i don't intend to be rude I am just pointing that I don't see how being a woman makes you inferior. 

You talk about physical strength, well how do you define it? It's true that men usually have more muscles mass than women but strength can be used in different ways, if a man and woman compete with each other I am not sure it's their sex that matters but their training, and how they use their strength.

Woman relying on men? In some countries probably but in many places not, what about single moms, what about woman that are just independent and autonomous, entrepreneur and all? 

What you assume about women not being able to hunt and building weapons does not rely on anything factual. I am quite sure even if I have not looked into it that you can find tribes either ancient or still existing where women were the one hunting. I am pretty sure I could do it even if I never had too and I could build a weapon. Now if you have never been exposed to that it's you but not all women.

Men built civilizations... mmmh okay so yes they are a majority but let's not pretend that they were not either influenced by wome, dealing with women that were in charge, yes they are a minority but they exists. I don't think that women were sitting idly all day long waiting for men to do stuff...Now you talk about artists and writers, you have some theories that in the Bible for example some texts were written by women but removed later, this is only a theory but it makes you think. About writers if you look at history it was less accessible for people in general, and knowing that a few from the elite were being educated and that it was mostly men it's no wonder they were more in numbers than women, yet female writers are as capable as men, just take a writing class or litterature, in mine we saw half of the author were female (most of the writers were from the last century or two though).

You conclue by saying that the only thing women would be good at is to have kids, I wonder if you go out of your house sometimes but plenty of women are doing something else than that and they succeed. One of the member took the example of Paglia. I think what she says is vain and she just like to provoke to stir shit yet if you look at her she succeeds at what she is doing anyways, that you like it or not!

So maybe what you say is more related to your life and personal experience. But if I used my experience to portray women I could debunk every argument you used because I am the exact opposite and yet I am a women. Your last sentence you describes yourself as a crazy person borderline psychotic, you don't seem to have much self esteem or self worth and maybe that's why you think women are like that but I don't really understand why this would justify your generalisation. Why don't you try to change yourself if you seem so unsatisfied?

I hope you don't take this in an offensive way, I don't mean to hurt or anything but i am quite baffled by this thread!


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## Laze (Feb 19, 2015)

camous said:


> You talk about physical strength, well how do you define it? It's true that men usually have more muscles mass than women but strength can be used in different ways, if a man and woman compete with each other I am not sure it's their sex that matters but their training, and how they use their strength.


Not true at all, men are physically stronger:
Men's Raw World Records | Powerlifting Watch
Women's Raw World Records | Powerlifting Watch

But sure, if you're talking about fighting, well a lot of that comes to down luck and in what way a blow connects with the other person's body. Anyone can land a lucky punch and knock someone out whether they've trained for years or not. In a practical sense women do possess enough innate strength (assuming they're not disabled in some way) to do everything that's needed to live in this day and age, so physical strength is really irrelevant anyhow.


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## Wisteria (Apr 2, 2015)

Ugh, this thread is still active?

Overall I have no idea what the OP is talking about, but it's one of the most offensive things I have ever read, and it wasn't even directed at myself or anyone in particular. Like, women not being creative? What?? I'm in an art class and there is only one man who is a student. Women have also proven to extremely talented writers. Rowling is probably the most famous author that lives today. And women do often take the role of being a caregiver, but how is that weakness? How is being emotional and a caregiver a weakness? Not implying that all women do belong to these categories today. The past doesn't matter, as you may have noticed in this day and age women are proving their intellectual worth. It's incredibly unfortunate it even had to be in the first place.


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## B3LIAL (Dec 21, 2013)

Mair said:


> I know it's probably silly, but I sometimes absolutely hate it.
> 
> I believe women are inferior to men. Women are physically weaker. Women are on average less intelligent than men. Women are less capable in almost everything except giving birth.
> 
> ...


I don't think women are inferior to men, we're just different.

Men have a greater drive to go out into the world and achieve things, that's the only difference, where as women are more likely to value security, safety and being happy with what they have so they can ensure their family/friends survival.

The same drive that leads men to invent and discover things is the same drive that leads me to do stupid and evil things.

Most of the inventors have been male but also so have almost all the great oppressors, serial killers and rapists.

Men have created cures for diseases but also nuclear weapons. Men have lead armies for just causes but also for bad ones. Sometimes to liberate their people, sometimes simply to loot and kill men and rape their women and children.


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