# How to improve my Role Function?



## SJMobley (Nov 17, 2013)

Hey so does anyone have any suggestions on how to strengthen my role function of "Fi"? First of all, I don't get how I can be an enneagram 3 and be an ISTj anyway since isn't enneagram 3 a feeling type and ISTj a logical type. But somehow I guess it is so I need to get more in touch with my feelings. Does anyone have any idea how to do this, listen to moving music maybe?


----------



## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

The heart or image triad of the enneagram has nothing to do with feelings but it has to do with _image_ as in how do you want to be seen and how do you see yourself? Enneagram 3 and 2 are the heart triad types in a sense the most furthest removed from feeling. 2 because they suppress their own needs including their emotional ones, and 3 because they are out of touch with their emotions being a competency type. 

And the role is always in conflict with your base so it's not possible, pretty much, or likely even desirable. The role will be strengthened if you strengthen Fe though, both being ethics.


----------



## SJMobley (Nov 17, 2013)

Yes, I understand that, but what about once a heart type gets back in touch with its feelings? I know a few examples of ESTp enneagram 4's like Angelina Jolie that contradict socionics theory about ESTp's being out of touch with their feelings. She's a 4 and four's are supposed to cultivate their emotional states even though she's clearly an ESTp. Also once your in the healthy levels of enneagram, its generally accepted that 3's are actually in touch with their emotions so how can that be possible. I have a friend who is an ESTp and also an enneagram 3. How can someone be an ESTp whose weakest function is "Fi" and also when in the heathy levels of enneagram also be fully in touch with their emotions. Those two things contradict each other.


----------



## Schweeeeks (Feb 12, 2013)

Why do they contradict each other?
Emotion and Fi/Fe aren't the same thing. Fi and Fe may fine tune how they express it and evaluate it in others, but this doesn't exclude other types from being in touch with their feelings.

Is it easy for you to feel connected to your body? That could be a shortcut, especially for negative emotions. 
Like maybe you are tensing up, subconsciously positioning yourself away from a person for example. Then you could conclude, hey....something about them is getting me all prickly here. Or perhaps you keep pursing your lips, but never wind up getting around to saying what it is you wanted to. If this keeps happening around the same subject, then maybe you do have a strong opinion about it that should be heard.

A little bit of a biased suggestion. Going off of Si demonstrative.

Socionics :: Logic / Ethics compares Logical and Ethical types. 


> Typical Doubts For Logical types: often are unsure of *their right* to have feelings for others and display emotions


Maybe you are experiencing more of this?


----------



## ThatOneWeirdGuy (Nov 22, 2012)

I've been asking myself that since I was 8. Actually, I don't anymore.


----------



## SJMobley (Nov 17, 2013)

What, what do you mean internal feelings and "Fi" aren't the same? "Fi" is literally the internal feelings you feel towards things. Socionics Information Elements: Fi gives an example of what "Fi" is. What I want to know is how an ESTp whose weakest function is supposedly "Fi" can be an enneagram 4 and still be in touch with their feelings? This clearly shows that there is more to personality than socionics theory can explain.


----------



## SJMobley (Nov 17, 2013)

Unless I'm mistaken on what "Fi" is, and I don't think I am. I have another reference on this site: Maverick Socionics: The differences between Fi and Fe that gives a better explanation. My point is being an enneagram feeling type, especially an enneagram 4, and being an ESTp is a big contradiction since 4's are known for being the most in touch with their feelings, even if they are exaggerated and ESTp's the type almost completely distanced from their "Fi" internal feelings.


----------



## Schweeeeks (Feb 12, 2013)

SJMobley said:


> What, what do you mean internal feelings and "Fi" aren't the same? "Fi" is literally the internal feelings you feel towards things. Socionics Information Elements: Fi gives an example of what "Fi" is. What I want to know is how an ESTp whose weakest function is supposedly "Fi" can be an enneagram 4 and still be in touch with their feelings? This clearly shows that there is more to personality than socionics theory can explain.


Hm. I thought Fi was more focused on the psychological distance/emotional interplay between two people. Like "this person doesn't like this person" or "this person seems nice to this person, but is still resentful". That sort of thing. Is this person my friend or a best friend?
So going from the first link:


> valued Fi strive to make and maintain close, personal relationships with their friends and family. They value sensitivity to others' feelings, and occasionally *will make their innermost feelings and sentiments known in order to test the possibility of creating closeness* with others.


Maybe SLEs already know what they want/how they feel, but don't consider it past a certain point? It's not the focus. Talking about innermost feelings is awkward...strange. 
Fi in role seems nervous about offending others. They're not sure just how close X person is to them. Is it safe for us to make jokes? etc: 
Also I'm guessing for Fi-devaluing, they may get bored going through a detailed discussion of how person X and person Y really feel about each other, how it manifests.



SJMobley said:


> Unless I'm mistaken on what "Fi" is, and I don't think I am. I have another reference on this site: Maverick Socionics: The differences between Fi and Fe that gives a better explanation. My point is being an enneagram feeling type, especially an enneagram 4, and being an ESTp is a big contradiction since 4's are known for being the most in touch with their feelings, even if they are exaggerated and ESTp's the type almost completely distanced from their "Fi" internal feelings.


So more than emotions themselves, I thought Fi was particularly geared towards personal morality.
Kind of chicken/egg scenario, you have to feel upset to know that you are morally against something. Probably.
So going back to SLE, SLE may get mad, but not go out of their way to connect it back to this point. What does this say about my own values? Where do I stand in my own honor code? Having to do a deep and thorough investigation into those areas may be a little nerve-wracking.

Really, really not trying to disparage Fi in anyway....but as an Fe-user, a lot of Fi types sometimes come off as gossipy to me. They'll talk to me about "he said, she said" but I don't think it's to hurt or slander anyone. They just want to analyze what's going on behind the scenes. How close is so and so, what is the dynamic between them. They also try to ask how I feel about it too. Again not to judge me, but to maybe get a better understanding of who I am as a person and my level of psychological distance to certain people. What are my values? If this makes any sense.
So for SLE and ILE, it's like "omg plz stop". Doing that stuff is draining. And not something they're sure they are very good at anyway. 
Maybe role function it's just distracting? So when I try to Si (pay attention to what's around me, my own internal state, how am I feeling, emphasis on physical feeling), it's harder for me to reflect and anticipate what will happen next (Ni). I still have a difficult time grasping Ti.
As a Ti base, perhaps going into these details takes away from the own theoretical framework you were already making? Kind of like putting cobwebs all over the shelf you are building.

Ok so back to SLE/Type 4....that does sound weird. Very anomaly. Honestly it's hard for me to visualize one, so I can't comment lol.

Edit: Type 4 focuses on their woundedness. Maybe SLE focuses on how wounded they are feeling and uses that to carve out their own individuality. Might lead to unusual focus on the PoLR and how they are different from others because they cannot do it as easily. When they become more healthy, they realize everyone has their own "PoLRs". Each individual is truly individual and enjoys the variety of human experience everyone brings to the table.

As for Type 3 SLE, it's a much more natural combination. An SLE who identifies with their image over themselves and gets into a rat race trying to better themselves to achieve acceptance. A real go-getter. As they reach healthy stages, they are less likely to do something because others desire/admire it and more because it's what they actually want to do. Something in line with what they enjoy in life.


----------



## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

@SJMobley As I already outlined, the image triad has nothing to do with experience feelings or emotions in itself, though an enneagram 4 may indulge in their emotional life as a part of their identity. Similarly, the ethics in socionics has nothing to do with feelings and emotions. I'm an Fi type and even though I'm also a logical type I have a very strong and powerful emotional life. 

As for an SLE 4, I have no problem imagining it at all to be honest. I see it as a very withdrawn kind of person, a loner and social introvert who chooses to do his or her thing on their own. Highly distrusting of the external world, feels like they were left out and alone and their flaw and character deficit relates to this in some way (focus on Fe HA); more artistically inclined, may pour their heart into the arts. Also a more aggressive type 4, perhaps likely CP6 and/or 8 fixed. If artistic, would express their lead Se mostly through their arts that would likely be more inclined towards the crafts than say, the written languages. Resourceful artist, knows where to find the best materials and how to acquire them. I think Ernest Hemingway is usually typed as an SLE? Another potential fictive example I can think of that kind of fits the archetype I'm describing is Léon from the film with the same name. Otherwise there's potentially Hei from Darker Than Black. Maybe not a 4 core, but he definitely had 4 tendencies. Quite sure of him being an SLE also.


----------

