# NF's as villains...



## jcatenaci (Mar 28, 2014)

Hey All,
I was just wondering, given the good number of NF protagonists and supporting characters in fiction, particularly fantasy and coming of age stories, I find that there is a paucity of NF villains. Is this because NF villains are hard to write, is it because so writers tend to be NF's and thus place high value on the traits NF's are usually associated with such as desire to help others and steadfastness in their values, or is there another reason. I feel like Anime and East Asian cinema are more likely to include an NF villain, whereas in Hollywood this isn't so much the case.

Do you feel the same? Are there any particular NF villains that you know and love (to hate?). Are NF villains more prone to being portrayed as anti-villains or even anti-heroes rather than outright villains? Discuss.


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## KristinaKiara (Jan 17, 2014)

It's actually rather tough topic for me, considering I plan on writing my first book's villain as an INFP, and I still have no idea how that will turn out lol.

I somehow feel like an NF villain is more likely to be someone who is disappointed with the world as it is, and "kills everything off" simply out of sudden frustration and dissatisfaction, more than true bad intentions. Especially *NFP people are quite impulsive, and are capable of doing many stuff in order to defend their values. If we feel our values are threatened, we are capable of doing some pretty bad stuff, especially at the very "heated" moment. We are not always that sweet as we might appear to be.

So, yes, maybe failed idealist? Someone who saw the world from one perspective, realized that's not how it is and so?


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## star tripper (Sep 1, 2013)

NF villains are the most compelling ones. Two of my favorite villains ever were Frollo from _The Hunchback of Notre Dame_ and the Camerlengo from _Angels & Demons_.


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## DarlingWildflower (Apr 15, 2014)

This is a very interesting idea! I've never thought of an NF villian before.
Perhaps Goob, from Meet The Robinson's!, was one. (Sorry, I just watched this movie yesterday.) He was so disappointed and mad at himseld about falling asleep at the end of his little-league game that it consumed him. He had said that winning that game was his dream, and because he lost his only dream, he never got adopted and was eventually abounded by everyone. Which he later blamed the protagonist, Lewis/Cornelius, for.


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## Phobic (Dec 27, 2012)

KristinaKiara said:


> I somehow feel like an NF villain is more likely to be someone who is disappointed with the world as it is, and "kills everything off" simply out of sudden frustration and dissatisfaction, more than true bad intentions.
> 
> [snip]
> 
> So, yes, maybe failed idealist? Someone who saw the world from one perspective, realized that's not how it is and so?


Loki from the Marvel movies is debatably an INFJ (though is often typed as INTJ because people can't imagine an F who's good at planning and genocide. wait, that's Hitler). What you said reminded me of him. 

Writers are more inclined to give T's villainy roles due to type stereotypes -- cold, great at planning, evil genius. Writing NF's in an environment contrary to the "let's help everyone" stereotype is hard, and the audience wants a badass. Thus reverting back to cookie-cutter villains.


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## jcatenaci (Mar 28, 2014)

star tripper said:


> NF villains are the most compelling ones. Two of my favorite villains ever were Frollo from _The Hunchback of Notre Dame_ and the Camerlengo from _Angels & Demons_.


There's also good old Ra's Al Ghul from the Batman universe; a man wholly devoted to saving the world who continues to return from the grave only to see his dream of a humanity brought in balance with nature (albeit, minus a couple billion in population). He only comes back to see that an heir inherits his dream, and takes over his mantle as the demon's head. Dude's a total NF that's always typed as an NT. xNFJ. A good argument could be made for Jigsaw from Saw, along the same lines.

One of my personal favorite NF villains would be Claudia Wolf from Silent Hill 3. Completely obsessed with the transcendent, believes sincerely that she is delivering humanity to God's eternal paradise and creating a world without sin, and enacts massive reforms to the religion of her family in order to bring it more in line with her own sincere beliefs.

Both of them are inspirers; people who incite their followers to action and not necessarily obsessed with the glory of being the leader of an organization. Great NF villains should demand us to question our own values, and whether or not our actions to defend them would still be justifiable if there were any flaws to them.


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## star tripper (Sep 1, 2013)

jcatenaci said:


> There's also good old Ra's Al Ghul from the Batman universe; a man wholly devoted to saving the world who continues to return from the grave only to see his dream of a humanity brought in balance with nature (albeit, minus a couple billion in population). He only comes back to see that an heir inherits his dream, and takes over his mantle as the demon's head. Dude's a total NF that's always typed as an NT. xNFJ. A good argument could be made for Jigsaw from Saw, along the same lines.
> 
> One of my personal favorite NF villains would be Claudia Wolf from Silent Hill 3. Completely obsessed with the transcendent, believes sincerely that she is delivering humanity to God's eternal paradise and creating a world without sin, and enacts massive reforms to the religion of her family in order to bring it more in line with her own sincere beliefs.
> 
> Both of them are inspirers; people who incite their followers to action and not necessarily obsessed with the glory of being the leader of an organization. Great NF villains should demand us to question our own values, and whether or not our actions to defend them would still be justifiable if there were any flaws to them.


Yes! I've always seen Ra's al Ghul as an INFJ (maybe ENFJ, but I think he's Ni-dom). I also think Harvey Dent is an ENFJ (the good side is ENFJ, the bad is ISTP), but Ra's is a better example of an NF villain.

People like Ra's and Frollo are villains that make you stop and _think_. They're the epitome of "the road to hell is paved with good intentions." They genuinely believe they're doing for the greater good. It makes you hesitate. What even is the definition of evil if villains like Ra's and Frollo exist? It's easy to demonize people like, say, the Joker or Scar or Jafar. They're very clearly fucked up individuals. But when you see people like Ra's and Frollo, you ask... who's the villain here? They're trying to do what they think is right for the world (which... aren't we all?). They're not out causing pain for their own enjoyment or anything. Who's to say _you're_ not in fact the villain? Or the supposed hero you've been rooting for. Who's actually doing more good for the world? Ra's or Batman? Because really, if Batman would just kill the Joker, he'd be saving so many lives. Ra's is the one purging the earth of "unworthy" people. Batman is just pointlessly tossing people in Arkham (people who inevitably escape). Who's the real villain here? Does the end justify the means? How is Ra's any different from God himself?

This is why NF villains are so amazing. They make you question _everything_.


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## killerB (Jan 14, 2010)

Magneto, is INFJ, sub-type 'destroyer of worlds.' Watch the X-men Origins, and you will see how he is a very very sensitive boy and they destroy him, and his empathy, by destroying his Mother. Then later, he fights for mutants, and tortures himself over Xaviar getting shot, because he directed the bullet. His decisions are always emotionally directed.


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## moonlight_echo (May 15, 2011)

Morgana Pendragon from the Merlin series - ENFJ.

The NF villain would be truly terrifying. Angry at the world for its injustice, their idealism becoming a twisted shadow of what it once was.


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## jcatenaci (Mar 28, 2014)

star tripper said:


> Yes! I've always seen Ra's al Ghul as an INFJ (maybe ENFJ, but I think he's Ni-dom). I also think Harvey Dent is an ENFJ (the good side is ENFJ, the bad is ISTP), but Ra's is a better example of an NF villain.
> 
> People like Ra's and Frollo are villains that make you stop and _think_. They're the epitome of "the road to hell is paved with good intentions." They genuinely believe they're doing for the greater good. It makes you hesitate. What even is the definition of evil if villains like Ra's and Frollo exist? It's easy to demonize people like, say, the Joker or Scar or Jafar. They're very clearly fucked up individuals. But when you see people like Ra's and Frollo, you ask... who's the villain here? They're trying to do what they think is right for the world (which... aren't we all?). They're not out causing pain for their own enjoyment or anything. Who's to say _you're_ not in fact the villain? Or the supposed hero you've been rooting for. Who's actually doing more good for the world? Ra's or Batman? Because really, if Batman would just kill the Joker, he'd be saving so many lives. Ra's is the one purging the earth of "unworthy" people. Batman is just pointlessly tossing people in Arkham (people who inevitably escape). Who's the real villain here? Does the end justify the means? How is Ra's any different from God himself?
> 
> This is why NF villains are so amazing. They make you question _everything_.


Well said, just well said. NF villains are best when they just hold on to some sense of morality that's twisted from the societal standard. They can probably hold a damn good debate with you on what is right and what is wrong (NF Ras vs. NT Batman), and that ability to think about their motivations at a higher level and also maintain that NF charisma allows them to attract many followers to their cause (Magneto from the X-Men movies and Joe Caroll from The Following) make them uniquely compelling in a manner that villains of other types can't begin to approach. Part of that goes back to their rarity in fiction, which in turn goes back to the tremendous amount of thought that writers have to put into their villains in order to make them believable.

NF villains are at their best when they come from the dark priest/priestess archetype, the individual who wishes to lead humanity to paradise with blood-soaked hands.


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## jcatenaci (Mar 28, 2014)

killerB said:


> Magneto, is INFJ, sub-type 'destroyer of worlds.' Watch the X-men Origins, and you will see how he is a very very sensitive boy and they destroy him, and his empathy, by destroying his Mother. Then later, he fights for mutants, and tortures himself over Xaviar getting shot, because he directed the bullet. His decisions are always emotionally directed.


I'm glad I'm not the only one who notices this. Magneto's overall personality comes off as a traumatized NF, possibly INFJ. The man is often typed as an NT for his mastermindey behavior, but his motivations set him in stark contrast to true NT villains like Norman Osborne who's motivations always seem to revolve around putting themselves in a position of greater power or simply pushing boundaries to see if they could(Loki from the Avengers comics is another perfect example). 

Magneto is primarily motivated by his dream of a world safe for mutant-kind, as opposed to the also NF Xavier who dreams of a world where mutants live side by side by the mutants. Both dream and work towards a world safe for mutants. The only difference is the details (though those details are enough to make one man a villain and the other a hero).


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## Amaryllis (Mar 14, 2014)

I'm not 100% about this, but recently I read a theory about Light Yagami from Death Note being an INFJ, and the more I thought about it, the more it made sense. I have no doubt that he is a INxJ, and before I would have said that he was a T user.
But then I gave it some thought, he genuinly thinks that he is doing the right thing by killing off every criminal (even if he is being a huge narcissist about it, fancying himself as a god), from the beginning he is driven by is own extremly strong values. Of course INTJs have values too, it's just that his are so intense, he seems like such an idealist... And he is a very good manipulator, correct me if I'm wrong but F users are more likely to be skilled at playing with people's emotions right?
What do you people think?

And so if we assume he is an NF user we can include him in the thread, and for me he is one of the greatest villain! When I was watching the anime I was so fascinated with him, how clever, determined and remorseless he was. He had do to something very evil so that I would remenber that he was the villain and that I shouldn't be rooting for him to win! Antiheroes are fascinating.



jcatenaci said:


> I'm glad I'm not the only one who notices this. Magneto's overall personality comes off as a traumatized NF, possibly INFJ. The man is often typed as an NT for his mastermindey behavior, but his motivations set him in stark contrast to true NT villains like Norman Osborne who's motivations always seem to revolve around putting themselves in a position of greater power or simply pushing boundaries to see if they could(Loki from the Avengers comics is another perfect example).
> 
> Magneto is primarily motivated by his dream of a world safe for mutant-kind, as opposed to the also NF Xavier who dreams of a world where mutants live side by side by the mutants. Both dream and work towards a world safe for mutants. The only difference is the details (though those details are enough to make one man a villain and the other a hero).


Wow I think you really convinced me there! It's very true though, I don't perceive Magneto as real power-hungry villain but rather as a very stubborn and convinced to do good man. He is so convinced of his views that he won't ever listen to Xavier's wisdom (or won't follow his advices). Maybe a T user would consider Xavier's points more and be less stubborn (since Magneto really respects him). I hadn't noticed before but your comparison to Norman Osborne really helps the understanding, veeeery different motives.


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## jcatenaci (Mar 28, 2014)

Amaryllis said:


> I'm not 100% about this, but recently I read a theory about Light Yagami from Death Note being an INFJ, and the more I thought about it, the more it made sense. I have no doubt that he is a INxJ, and before I would have said that he was a T user.
> But then I gave it some thought, he genuinly thinks that he is doing the right thing by killing off every criminal (even if he is being a huge narcissist about it, fancying himself as a god), from the beginning he is driven by is own extremly strong values. Of course INTJs have values too, it's just that his are so intense, he seems like such an idealist... And he is a very good manipulator, correct me if I'm wrong but F users are more likely to be skilled at playing with people's emotions right?
> What do you people think?
> 
> ...


Light is an interesting case, I can dig your assertion of INFJ for Light, and I definitely believe he fully intends to project that image to the rest of the world. Still, I'm pretty sure he's an unhealthy ENTJ, and I've got a couple reasons. He certainly talks a big game about making the world a better place, but he never comes off as doing so for the sake of protecting people, but rather it always feels like he's instead intending to make the world more orderly, eliminating the unnecessary wrong doer's who are dragging the rest of society down. Light thrives on order, rather than right and wrong; he rarely sits back and second guesses his actions for the sake of his goal the way Ra's and Magneto both have. On the contrary, he absolutely thrives on the destruction to human beings that his actions bring. Even when those include federal agents, former lovers, etc. That and his match with the oh so damn INTP L is mainly driven by a cat and mouse, intellectual chess match fervor rather than the Dark Knight vs. Elder Wizard energy that an NF villain vs. NT hero match should be imbued with (see bats v. Ra's). Light doesn't so much want to prove his cause is morally right as he wants to win the game against L. He is definitely a good manipulator, too, but I think this just might be an Extrovert plus Intuitive thing rather than a Feeler thing in his case.

Like I said, he's an interesting case, and I'd love to see a good argument to prove me wrong on that, but I'm pegging him as an insane ENTJ who wants to project the image of an INFJ. In the end, Light's story with the Death Note was too much about him becoming a God, rather than him him becoming a messiah. ISTP Ryuk found this hilarious, regardless. Lol!


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## killerB (Jan 14, 2010)

jcatenaci said:


> I'm glad I'm not the only one who notices this. Magneto's overall personality comes off as a traumatized NF, possibly INFJ. The man is often typed as an NT for his mastermindey behavior, but his motivations set him in stark contrast to true NT villains like Norman Osborne who's motivations always seem to revolve around putting themselves in a position of greater power or simply pushing boundaries to see if they could(Loki from the Avengers comics is another perfect example).
> 
> Magneto is primarily motivated by his dream of a world safe for mutant-kind, as opposed to the also NF Xavier who dreams of a world where mutants live side by side by the mutants. Both dream and work towards a world safe for mutants. The only difference is the details (though those details are enough to make one man a villain and the other a hero).


Yes, we had a long talk about the two guys in the movie.Both are NFs. Xavier is more of an ENFP I think......maybe a J, but he acts without having a plan always so I lean towards the P. Magneto, is an INFJ, 100% positive about it, becasue I catching myself thinking along the safe lines he does. LOL Both are very much emotionally driven. Magneto as a way to promote justice for Mutants, and to prevent their slavery. INFJs love justice.


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## candiemerald (Jan 26, 2014)

I was just trying to search my brain for NF villains before I stumbled upon this thread, but I couldn't really think of any.

I think Roger Chillingworth from The Scarlet Letter could be INFJ, if he's not INTJ.


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## jcatenaci (Mar 28, 2014)

candiemerald said:


> I was just trying to search my brain for NF villains before I stumbled upon this thread, but I couldn't really think of any.
> 
> I think Roger Chillingworth from The Scarlet Letter could be INFJ, if he's not INTJ.


I've actually never read The Scarlet Letter, so I'm curious. Tell me about him.


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## candiemerald (Jan 26, 2014)

jcatenaci said:


> I've actually never read The Scarlet Letter, so I'm curious. Tell me about him.


Unfortunately, he's a rather flat character - and I find it irritating that, to emphasize his nature, Hawthorne had to keep reminding us that he's physical malformed and ugly.

He was captured by the Indians and held hostage for two years, where he gained knowledge of their medicine - Indian medicine was deemed witchcraft and deviltry during that time period, so he seems to have a more open mind than a lot of people at the time. After returning to civilization, he finds his wife has committed adultery, and hensforth decides he must punish his wife's lover: "He had begun an investigation, as he imagined, with the severe and equal integrity of a judge, desirous only of truth, even as if the question involved no more than the air-drawn lines and figures of a geometrical problem, instead of human passions, and wrongs inflicted on itself."
His plans for revenge seem to stem from his idea of justice, but he also takes great pleasure in subtly psychologically torturing the young man, whom he wins over by pretending to be his friend. The plan is carefully planned out and nearly perfectly executed. 

He is basically a scholarly, honorable man until he becomes obsessed with destroying his wife's lover. This passion consumes him and ends up destroying him. Before he falls into his own self-damning plan for revenge, he is described as: "kind, true, just, and of constant, if not warm affections."

From what we see of him, he has a lot of insight and intuition. He is a scholarly man, a scientist and a physician, who spends most of his time closeted with his books. He appears outwardly very calm, logical and intelligent. His eyes have a "strange, penetrating power". He easily discovers who is his wife's lover, a man whom no one suspects in the slightest. He shows a lot of perception of human character as well, so that might be his Fe working.

My first impression was INTJ, but I could see INFJ too. I think what I'm describing is more Ni/Te than Ni/Fe, though, so he's probably INTJ. 


I bet that was more information than you were looking for :tongue:


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## jcatenaci (Mar 28, 2014)

candiemerald said:


> Unfortunately, he's a rather flat character - and I find it irritating that, to emphasize his nature, Hawthorne had to keep reminding us that he's physical malformed and ugly.
> 
> He was captured by the Indians and held hostage for two years, where he gained knowledge of their medicine - Indian medicine was deemed witchcraft and deviltry during that time period, so he seems to have a more open mind than a lot of people at the time. After returning to civilization, he finds his wife has committed adultery, and hensforth decides he must punish his wife's lover: "He had begun an investigation, as he imagined, with the severe and equal integrity of a judge, desirous only of truth, even as if the question involved no more than the air-drawn lines and figures of a geometrical problem, instead of human passions, and wrongs inflicted on itself."
> His plans for revenge seem to stem from his idea of justice, but he also takes great pleasure in subtly psychologically torturing the young man, whom he wins over by pretending to be his friend. The plan is carefully planned out and nearly perfectly executed.
> ...


Nah, it was the perfect amount tbh! :wink: Some characters can be difficult to judge, but I believe in Chillingworth's case the motivation has to be examined. Do his actions originate from his need to prove himself superior to his wife's lover or to punish a man who he deems is wicked for being an adulterer? If the latter, INFJ is likely. If the former, INTJ is most probable. From what I can remember, Hawthorne was obsessed with dissecting the religion of Puritanism in his writings (I've mainly read his short stories) so I would err on the side that this is mainly an issue of him seeking Justice. This points towards an INFJ over INTJ, at least in fictional terms.


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## candiemerald (Jan 26, 2014)

jcatenaci said:


> Nah, it was the perfect amount tbh! :wink: Some characters can be difficult to judge, but I believe in Chillingworth's case the motivation has to be examined. Do his actions originate from his need to prove himself superior to his wife's lover or to punish a man who he deems is wicked for being an adulterer? If the latter, INFJ is likely. If the former, INTJ is most probable. From what I can remember, Hawthorne was obsessed with dissecting the religion of Puritanism in his writings (I've mainly read his short stories) so I would err on the side that this is mainly an issue of him seeking Justice. This points towards an INFJ over INTJ, at least in fictional terms.


I'm not sure. He is seeking his own brand of justice, but more than anything he wants to watch his victim suffer; he doesn't tell anyone that he knows who the adulterer is - if he really wanted justice he would have proclaimed his suspicions. Of course, he believes himself the ultimately guilty party, since he knew his wife didn't love him when she married him, so perhaps that factors into it somehow. But he definitely is punishing the man he thinks committed a dreadful crime against himself and his wife, not attempting to prove himself superior - for one thing, he accepts the fact that he is actually degrading himself, that he is taking on the character of a tormenting devil in order to fulfill his plan. He doesn't delude himself.

So yeah, maybe an INFJ after all.


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## jcatenaci (Mar 28, 2014)

candiemerald said:


> I'm not sure. He is seeking his own brand of justice, but more than anything he wants to watch his victim suffer; he doesn't tell anyone that he knows who the adulterer is - if he really wanted justice he would have proclaimed his suspicions. Of course, he believes himself the ultimately guilty party, since he knew his wife didn't love him when she married him, so perhaps that factors into it somehow. But he definitely is punishing the man he thinks committed a dreadful crime against himself and his wife, not attempting to prove himself superior - for one thing, he accepts the fact that he is actually degrading himself, that he is taking on the character of a tormenting devil in order to fulfill his plan. He doesn't delude himself.
> 
> So yeah, maybe an INFJ after all.


That's definitely a major point on the INFJ side. He doesn't delude himself into believing that there is no right or wrong, or that the principle distinctions are just man made constructs like a fictional NT commonly would. NF villains will often commit terrible deeds knowing full well that what they do is against their own values, but they do it because they see themselves as ultimately on the side of good versus evil; they believe themselves to be sacrificing their own souls for what is right. What could possibly be more NF a trait than self sacrifice for the perceived greater good?

.... of course this all comes from someone who never has read The Scarlet Letter, lol!


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## Aya the Abysswalker (Mar 23, 2012)

jcatenaci said:


> JoJo's is such an ENFP property in general, I wouldn't be surprised if every character in the series is some kind of NF, lol!


Which JoJo? I bet on either Josuke or Giorno.

Hm... I don't think Kars or Kira are NFs.


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## jcatenaci (Mar 28, 2014)

Aya the Whaler said:


> Which JoJo? I bet on either Josuke or Giorno.
> 
> Hm... I don't think Kars or Kira are NFs.


Oh, I meant more that JoJo's Bizarre Adventure was a completely NF property. One Piece would be another NF property, with all the seemingly random aspects of the world that create this unique series, ya know?


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## Aya the Abysswalker (Mar 23, 2012)

jcatenaci said:


> Oh, I meant more that JoJo's Bizarre Adventure was a completely NF property. One Piece would be another NF property, with all the seemingly random aspects of the world that create this unique series, ya know?


JoJo is very NF, it lacks NT or ST characters more than One Piece. OP has Robin in the main cast, JoJo has (maybe) Lisa Lisa, Dio (if you don't follow Over Heaven), Kars, Yoshikage Kira, Jotaro Kujo (he really has no idea how to express his feelings without evolving a fight), Fugo, Foo Fighters and little more than that. 
JoJo has some SF characters (Joseph, Mista, for example), but not has much as OP as far as I've seen it.

However, if Josuke and Giorno are ENFPs, they're far more realistic than Luffy.

Then again, I'm a little biased, I'm a big fan of JoJo and I really don't like OP.


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## crumbs (Dec 17, 2013)

Haven't read the whole thread so maybe someone's mentioned him before, but Frankenstein's monster, who seems very much like an INFJ to me, is who I immediately thought of when I saw the title. Not so much a villain as a misunderstood person, but if you take away the emotional depth, he's just another murderer. In fact, he reminded me of Loki so much that I read all his parts in Tom Hiddleston's voice.  

To me, INFJs make the scariest villains. I just shudder thinking about what it would be like if the INFJs I know would get mad. They could use their magical mind reading abilities to take you down from the inside AND make you feel like you deserved it. *shudder*


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## Aya the Abysswalker (Mar 23, 2012)

crumbs said:


> Haven't read the whole thread so maybe someone's mentioned him before, but Frankenstein's monster, who seems very much like an INFJ to me, is who I immediately thought of when I saw the title. Not so much a villain as a misunderstood person, but if you take away the emotional depth, he's just another murderer. In fact, he reminded me of Loki so much that I read all his parts in Tom Hiddleston's voice.
> 
> To me, INFJs make the scariest villains. I just shudder thinking about what it would be like if the INFJs I know would get mad. They could use their magical mind reading abilities to take you down from the inside AND make you feel like you deserved it. *shudder*


Movie or book?


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## crumbs (Dec 17, 2013)

Aya the Whaler said:


> Movie or book?


Book. I've never actually seen any Frankenstein related movies in full, only clips, which I guess is a good thing since they rarely seem to get the tone accurate.


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## Tridentus (Dec 14, 2009)

Commodus from Gladiator comes to mind. ENFP.

Extremely idealistic but permanently scarred by his relationship with his father and his own insecurities. His people skills in terms of his insight into how people think is his greatest strength, whilst his overly subjective morality and his over-sensitivity is his downfall trait. His plan for his "vision" for Rome is based on his own "alternative" ideas of how to make it happen- using his understanding of people and manipulation.


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## Tridentus (Dec 14, 2009)

herinb said:


> Two Face!!! Maybe?


Man of ideals and principles yeah, but above all spurred on by action, by getting things done.

Se user for me.


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## Aya the Abysswalker (Mar 23, 2012)

Tridentus said:


> Commodus from Gladiator comes to mind. ENFP.
> 
> Extremely idealistic but permanently scarred by his relationship with his father and his own insecurities. His people skills in terms of his insight into how people think is his greatest strength, whilst his overly subjective morality and his over-sensitivity is his downfall trait. His plan for his "vision" for Rome is based on his own "alternative" ideas of how to make it happen- using his understanding of people and manipulation.


That so legit and is scary.


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## Edmunds.T (Apr 27, 2014)

Nagato and Obito are NF villains in Naruto Shippuuden. One thing they both had in common is that they were emotionally hurt.
So NF villains are kinda boring. Because they are not the fun _"I'm bad because I like it"_ types, but rather the_ "I'm bad because I'm butthurt"_. Which isn't as fun.


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## Aya the Abysswalker (Mar 23, 2012)

Edmunds.T said:


> So NF villains are kinda boring. Because they are not the fun _"I'm bad because I like it"_ types, but rather the_ "I'm bad because I'm butthurt"_. Which isn't as fun.


I think that depends highly on how the character is constructed and presented.

For example, Manah from Drakengard is villain because she wasn't loved enough, so she was a prime target to be possessed by the Gods, but she's an interesting character still.

It is debatable whatever Dio Brando from JoJo is NF or not but he's a villain mainly because he's butthurt that he wasn't born rich, still he is a very entraining and fun villain to watch.

Some people say Kefka from FFVI is an ENFP, he's basically crazy for reasons.


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## kwarling (Jan 26, 2014)

NFs are the heroic temperament, so naturally when a hero is a villain, there is usually some good psychology behind there.


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## Uber (May 11, 2014)

moonlight_echo said:


> The NF villain would be truly terrifying. Angry at the world for its injustice, their idealism becoming a twisted shadow of what it once was.


I agree, pretty dark stuff!

I LOL-ed at your signature, it is so epic! I have never before seen such a death stare! :laughing: Wow, I can't get over it. And I thought I was going to sleep tonight!


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## Elliott. (May 31, 2014)

Jigsaw was brought up earlier in the thread but with very little detail so i feel the need to explain it furter. 

I would say he definitely fits the INFJ category because he is meticulous when it comes to planning, very skilled at reading people and predicting their actions, and finally although his methods are gruesome he is trying to help people find the will to live, improving their lives, a kind of moral mission in my opinion.


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## Aya the Abysswalker (Mar 23, 2012)

The ultimate NF hero is Nier from NieR.

The guy sacrifices his life, nobody knows, nobody cares, he doesn't get a thank you and you cry like a bitch at the end.

The same goes for Wander from Shadow of the Colossus and Ico from ICO.

NF heroes are heroes willing to sacrifice their lives for something else to be "right" even though they don't know if it is right not.

In that sense @_Elliott._ I don't consider Jigsaw a villain, if anything he's an anti-villain or an anti-hero.


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## NinaKitty (Nov 27, 2013)

I could be wrong, but I really want to say Dr. Horrible is an NF (INFP).


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## aurelief (Apr 5, 2014)

Nothing else much that I can contribute to this thread, except that I really liked reading it!!

Most of my favourite villains are NFs, because something about the emotional & psychological twistedness behind their idealism is so fascinating and it could actually keep me invested in them (and the story). Somehow, I end up sympathising with most NF villains and I'd actually root for them over the stereotypical do-gooder protagonist, because they just really need someone or something to save them from their sad, twisted inner world--but everyone else in the film/novel doesn't ever seem to get it or approach it the right way. But if they did, there would be no villain. It's a catch-22 :/

(In other words, I'm a sucker for NF villains. I find them kinda hot. Oops.)


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## Castle (Jan 25, 2014)

Im sorry but I am going a little off topic but i just wanted to twist things around.... what if you had a friend who was an NF and their reality has become twisted by some horrible event and they start having morals of destroying every unworthy human off the planet? would you support your friend? Or would you say no and risk being the first one to die and further their escalation of their wrath upon the world making them feel what they do is even more right? Also what would your reasons be for making that choice?


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## Aya the Abysswalker (Mar 23, 2012)

Castle said:


> Im sorry but I am going a little off topic but i just wanted to twist things around.... what if you had a friend who was an NF and their reality has become twisted by some horrible event and they start having morals of destroying every unworthy human off the planet? would you support your friend? Or would you say no and risk being the first one to die and further their escalation of their wrath upon the world making them feel what they do is even more right? Also what would your reasons be for making that choice?


First: support him in what?


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## Castle (Jan 25, 2014)

Just support him/her in their quest of truly believing that the only way to make the world peaceful is too kill everyone who unworthy.

Its fine. You don't have to reply to it... probably wasn't that good of a question anyway.

I agree that Dr. Horrible is a possible NF candidate.


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