# Another year on but still unsure of my type - please help!



## suicidal_orange (May 6, 2010)

It's me again, it has been nearly a year since my last MBTI "type me" thread so hopefully there are some new typists to have a go. I'd like to think I have a good grasp of MBTI and the functions but still struggle to see which I use most so please analyse the structure as much as the words presented which are pretty much all liable to be completely contradictable. This has been written over nearly two weeks so some repitition is inevitable - sorry!

*1) What aspect of your personality made you unsure of your type?*
My tendency to overthink everything along with being able to explain my thoughts using different function patterns (types). So what if the test came back 75%+ on each letter of INTP before I knew anything of MBTI or myself (i.e. before any bias was introduced) and the profile fits me near perfectly - that's too easy, the test must be incapable of identifying me. So I come up with my own theory: I'm unhealthy because I've over introverted, my functions therefore aren't normal so I appear completely different to my real type. 

I "tried" all the INXX types before briefly thinking myself ISTP befor thinking myself an ISFJ for the past 9 months sor so despite everyone on here who knows me well thinking it doesn't fit at all. I thought that that all I needed to do was participate in the world outside of my head/room more and my genuine desire to help people will find some way of expressing itself, I'd become less cynical and I might even remember people's birthdays along with all the great stuff healthy Fe users do naturally. Looking at my mum who raised me and how much she values typical Fe behaviour I simply must have it in me somewhere. Sadly my theory was wrong and it hasn't worked. I'm no different today than I was six years ago when I lost a good friend (suicide) and cut myself off from all the people I lived with. I am not a "nice" people person and for the first time in ages I'm comfortable with that (if I were nicer and kept in contact better I could have saved my friend was the illusion behind the desire)

The trouble is that I do need people because people have problems that I can solve, even if the problem is just boredom - I can do something with them so I get to feel good for helping and I usually enjoy it but for whatever reason I never want to do things so don't do the inviting. It's a shame that people don't have an off switch and they have a tendency to take offense at my disappearing and ask about it when I return, which I dislike. Is it really that hard to check in with people? Yes, it is. I was supposed to call home weekly at uni but usually forgot to do that even, time just goes so fast. I can't call at 6pm because they'd be eating and I next think about it at 2am and they'll be asleep.

As an Enneagram 5 my solution to most things is to read more, but if I read I tend to emphasise the relevant parts of the last type/function I was researching so I resisted for a couple of weeks prior to writing this. Hopefully it's raw "me".


*2) What do you yearn for in life? Why?*
Nothing. I've blamed this on being depressed but it's not really because I'm quite happy now. I can't want what I've never had because I don't know for sure that I'll like it so it doesn't make sense to put any effort in to finding it only to regret it later, so I just float through life and take whatever comes. I guess I'd like one perfect person/lifestyle/career to appear and grab me as I have plenty of confidence that I can do whatever I want, I just lack the desire.

*3) Think about a time where you felt like you were at your finest. Tell us what made you feel that way.*
Doing something someone said is impossible. It doesn't matter that said thing has sat unused for months, I know I did it and so does the someone - large scale recognition not required.

*4) What makes you feel inferior?*
Primarily it's emotional people. I just don't know what to do, especially having read how Fs don't want solutions they just want someone to listen. Luckily I am able to hold my tongue most of the time but allowing people to wallow is hard - I want to fix it, to make their life as easy as mine. I don't see the point of cleaning a wound while there's still a shard of glass embedded in it.

Another one is having a gap in my knowledge in an area that's useful. I'm the technology person yet I have an intense dislike for web design, which lots of people want both personally and professionally.

*5) What tends to weigh on your decisions? (Do you think about people, pro-cons, how you feel about it, etc.)*
I try to find the perfect solution. I like to think I base my decisions purely on logic but logically the impact on the people involved is often a big factor so maybe it's not logic at all. Feel free to give me a specific question and I'll see which applies and why.

*6) When working on a project what is normally your emphasis? Do you like to have control of the outcome?*
My emphasis is firmly on the creation. I jump straight in at the implimentation phase attacking the hardest parts first. Only if I get stuck will I write out a plan for that specific part, or talk about it to someone (them knowing what I'm talking about is optional - in the course of explaining the problem it usually clicks) before going back to doing. Once I've worked out how it could work I could drop it but if completion is required I'll finish it to a working state, but things like making it pretty and writing documentation are too dull so I leave them to someone else if at all possible.

The only exception that comes to mind was when doing presentations - I'm a good proof reader so once someone else had made the pretty slides I'd much rather do the final checks myself than trust someone else to.

*7) Describe us a time where you had a lot of fun. How is your memory of it? *
Possibly the hardest question on here? Fun is a strange concept, I'd suggest I'm having fun whenever I'm immersed in something. This could be while on a long walk or soldering a DIY electronics project. I feel most alive and invigorated when I'm reminded that I have a physical body such as when stood on a windy hilltop or walking on snow and ice, constantly adjusting so as not to slip. Specific memories of "fun" are hard to come by so I'll just say they're vague.

*8) When you want to learn something new, what feels more natural for you? (Are you more prone to be hands on, to theorize, to memorize, etc)*
Hands on all the way. Learning how to do something from a book/website is pointless, watching someone else do it can be useful but only once I've actually done it myself has it any chance of sticking.

Usually I'll remember something for a couple of weeks having done it once but I'll still check I'm doing it right, then after the second or third time (once I'm sure of the required outcome) I start experimenting to refine my own method, which will include theorising. If my method doesn't come off I have the one I was taught to fall back on when the deadline nears.

For learning facts I'd far prefer to listen to something than read it.

*9) How organized do you to think of yourself as?*
I'm not very organised.

My bedroom and desk at work are both states where I can find most things but anyone else would struggle and my house key often goes missing for days at a time. I would really struggle to be early for an appointment but it is very rare that I'm more than five minutes late - I have to be at work by 10 so usually four days a week my timesheet reads 9:55 or later, 10:00 is not unusual. I've not had chance to sit down in the waiting room for two job interviews...

Another area related to organisation is Christmas cards. I generally buy them in reasonable time but once bought they're crossed off my mental list, actually writing them and giving them out is problematic. I managed all but three this year which is pretty good!

*10) How do you judge new ideas? Do you try to understand the principles behind it to see if they make sense or do you look for information that supports it?*
I'm a skeptic - every idea is flawed until proven otherwise. I run simulations in my head of possible scenarios and when I think I have something not covered I ask the "inventor" to explain how it's covered. Until it makes sense to me and I can see it covers all eventualities I'm not going to accept it, no explanation is better than a flawed one as the flawed one might be missing something fundamental.

Thinking of real examples I keep returning to work where I make spreadsheets to do strange things. My supervisor in this area is usually happy with covering 98% of the possibilities while I wont settle for anything less than 100% e.g. "no-one would change their hours before they've worked a month" is probably true, but there's no reason someone couldn't so it must be covered.

*11) Do you find harmony by making sure everyone is doing fine and belonging to a given group or by making sure that you follow what you believe and being yourself?*
Neither really. I've covered my inadequacy with people's emotional issues above so even if I do notice someone looking left out (highly unlikely, either I'll be immersed in a conversation or off in my own little world) I do nothing about it and I'm not a group person. At the gym despite having talked to a couple of regulars I still wear headphones all the time, I don't join in their near constant chatter.

At the same time I don't really have strong opinions and beliefs about most things because if I've not directly experienced something it's impossible to have an opinion on it. I tend to adopt the opinions of whoever I've been talking to most recently and argue those when the topic comes up elsewhere. If I have no opinion I'm not averse to playing devils advocate to see how good my "opponents" argument is.

*12a) Are you the kind that thinks before speaking or do you speak before thinking?*
In an informal environment I tend to talk first, joking about inappropriate things like cancer and coming across exactly as I feel which often isn't good. (e.g. I think there are enough healthy people on earth so anyone incapable of looking after themself should be humanely killed, which is not what someone visiting their gran in hospital for the third time this month wants to hear)

When it comes to talking about an idea I have to have a good grasp of what I'm going to say before I open my mouth. If I forget about this (and it does happen) I quickly contradict myself, get called on it, then stop talking because I can't be bothered to explain the contradictions which require explaining "me" not the topic at hand, which will still be being churned over in my mind.

*12b) Do you prefer one-on-one communication or group discussions?*
In a way I dislike trying to communicate as I have a deep dislike for words - they're so limited. In a group I usually sit back listening to the opinions of everyone else and have to be asked directly to give any input while in a one-on-one situation it's never me who starts a conversation. I do not undersand the idea of an uncomfortable silence - if I can't be silent with someone I don't allow myself to get in a stiruation where it could happen. 

If I'm left alone with a friend's friend chances are silence will follow, I'll just check out mentally and ignore them. Somehow I still don't leave a bad impression.

*13) Do you jump into action right away or do you like to know where are you jumping before leaping? *
I like to know vaguely what's ahead but not specifics. "We're going out on Saturday night" is enough, no need to say where or what time, and I don't care who else is going. 

*13b) Do action speaks more than words?*
Yes. Words are far quicker and easier to manipulate to give a favourable impression (for those gifted in that department) than actions which by their nature require more effort, as well as words being very open to interpretation. Try some straight faced sarcasm or feigned stupidity to see just how little words alone actually mean. That said, kind words from someone I know which I consider to be genuine can bring a tear to my eye.

*14) It's Saturday. You're at home, and your favorite show is about to start. Your friends call you for a night out. What will you do?*
Assuming I'm not depressed or genuinely too busy to hear the phone ring I'll probably head for the shower in preparation for a night out. Whatever I was doing (it probably wouldn't be tv) can wait until tomorrow. If I am in the middle of something and do hear my phone there's a good chance I wont answer, it's better to lie about not hearing it than to have to tell people what I'm doing that's more fun than seeing them, especially when I don't see people often. I struggle to say no as I'm sure they wont invite me next time and next time I might be nearer bored and welcome the opportunity.

*15) How do you act when you're stressed out?*
I'm very short tempered with people who distract me from whatever it is that's stressing me out. This is usually short term such as when I'm struggling to find something or trying to solder something awkward. It's hard to say more than that because I'm so laid back - I accidentally deleted everything on my computer recently but getting stressed wont help, so I don't. 

*16) How do you form opinions/judge other people, what about personalities of others, do you tend to value and what do you dislike?*
I feel the need to make a distinction between liking someone, disliking them, and just not caring either way. Most people fit into the last category because on meeting someone the conversation is usually shallow and credibility cannot be established meaning the only thing to go on is appearances (both physical and the persona they choose to present). Harsh as it sounds I don't need lots of friends so I'm not inclined to get to know people enough to promote them to the "like" category.

The exception is when someone is extra honest such as a girl I worked with telling me I was skinny without being asked. Instant promotion!

People can be disliked though, all they have to do is lie (white lies to keep people happy excluded) without good explanation at any point. They'd never know the difference from how I treat them but I don't forget.

Generally as long as you aren't a liar or overly critical of the ideas of others while presenting an inferior option in a pretty package or too demanding/inflexible I'm not likely to dislike you. 

There is the occaisional person who jumps straight to the "like" or "dislike" category almost instantly with no reason, I'm yet to get one wrong (but this could be expecting the best/worst and inevitably finding it...)

*17) Is there anything you really like talking about with other people?*
If by talking this means having a conversation then there is only one reason to do it - knowledge sharing. If the topic is impersonal hearing anyone's take on it can be interesting, I can then think about it later and consider amending my views (assuming I had any to begin with - if it doesn't directly affect me it's likely I don't).

If the topic is personal hearing someone's opinion without knowing who they are and which of their experiences could be colouring their view is pointless. For this reason when I do meet someone interesting I am very interested in learning everything about them, which has been mistaken for romantic interest at least twice, both times I was oblivious and a mutual friend told me later.

I prefer the views of someone real to those in a book or on a website and I enjoy sharing my knowledge so if I don't know something but I know someone who does I'll ask them rather than research. I have been accused of being lazy because of this.

I'd offer you cookies for getting this far but chances are you're overseas so they'd be past their best even if they did arrive in one piece. Please keep going anyway :crazy:

*18) What kind of things do pay the least attention to in your life?*
Anything that's not forced into my immediate awareness had may as well not exist. When walking/driving I'm completely aware of my surroundings - as long as they move. The white cat sitting in the middle of the road? Didn't see it... (don't worry, it saw me :laughing This actually scales very well in to all aspects of life. I can get up and start doing something and go from thing to thing (or focus on one thing all day) only noticing I'm hungry once it's dark, and while I'm in the kitchen I'd may as well get a first drink for the day. 

Thinking longer term I don't like starting big things without knowing they will bring lasting satisfaction so I avoid thinking of the future - who knows what it might bring, no point trying to prepare. I don't do saving because I could get hit by a bus tomorrow. 

I've never taken much interest in what's going on beyond "my little bubble" so I tend to learn about natural disasters and the like days after the event when I overhear someone talking about them. I wouldn't want to know anyway - there's nothing I can do and being reminded of that is not pleasant.

*19) How do your friends perceive you? What is wrong about their perception? What would your friends never say about your personality?*
The most commonly commented on trait is my ability to overanalyse anything, some advice from my oldest friend last year was "you just need to follow your heart sometimes". Next is the acknowledgement that I'm a calming influence, if anything I'm too laid back - this frustrates some people. Can't really argue with either of these... Another thing is that people seem to assume I'm sensitive although my face rarely betrays my emotional state so I'm not really sure why. If I consider their criticism valid I'm already aware of it so it doesn't hurt while if I don't think it valid I ignore it, without bothering to explain why they're wrong. Perhaps my lack of response (I believe retaliation is expected?) is seen as weakness.

Things no-one would say about me are that I'm warm, emotional or unreliable.

*20) You got a whole day to do whatever you like. What kind of activities do you feel like doing? *
I have two days every week like this because I have no commitments (and I like this freedom) and enough money to do whatever I want. 

Today was such a day and I've done - nothing. I didn't consider contacting anyone to do anything with and I haven't even looked on PerC or logged on to MSN or skype to talk to people, I've just been happy in my own company. I have read about my new motherboard online and tweaked the overclock on it, read a bit of a book called "Organising fromt he Right Side of the Brain" (really funny in no small part due to it's accuracy) and now at nearly 8pm have decided to finish this questionnaire while running stress tests and downloading Windows 8. When the inevitable questions come at work next week I will once again be at a loss as to where the weekend has gone. Most people have given up asking.

In an ideal world I'd have gone skiing today, something I've been saying I'll do again for years but never actually get round to booking, in no small part because I don't want to do it alone. Actually, I don't like doing anything alone which I don't think has come up here yet. Doing something without sharing the experience is somewhat hollow, once it's done it's done because there is no-one to share the memories with.

On another day I might go for a long walk (6 hours+) in the countryside with my camera or spend hours listening to music or talking online but I wasn't in that mood today.

On a sidenote I should have revised for an exam and/or tidied my room which resembles a bombsite, but I did neither. The exam isn't tomorrow so it seems low priority and I don't have time to tidy my whole room and cannot conceive doing it a bit at a time so won't start.


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## Finaille (Aug 8, 2010)

I don't know why, but ENTP stuck out reading your description.

I can't quite put my finger on why I think you're a Ne-dom, but I also see elements probably based on gender (such as fixing a problem instead of listening... that I think is more of a 'male' thing than a 'thinker' thing) and potentially environment. 

You see possibilities. You pick things apart relentlessly. It sounds like you're fun to be around. 

I see that you're a thinker and perceiver most strongly based from your words. You don't strike me as a 'sound' introvert, and I weigh you more an intuitive than a sensor.

I will have to come back later, I have to go for the moment. Will be gone all day, but maybe look at INTP or ENTP? But chew on it, see if anything sounds possible, and state your rebuttal so I can think of something to add.


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## suicidal_orange (May 6, 2010)

Thanks @Finaille, and congratulations on seeing past the "loner = Introvert" stereotype. I was worried that side hadn't come across when I re-read it :happy:

ENTP is an interesting suggestion. My only solid disagreement with what you said is "It sounds like you're fun to be around" which I don't really see. It is possible that I was (am?) depressed and reintroduction to life takes longer than I've allowed and one day I will be a "proper" Ne dom freely spewing the comical randomness that is my inner mind, or that being a less than healthy 5 is the cause of my social reserve and need for privacy and space so I'll never be a proper extravert.

This is why I've made this thread in the hope of people picking up on functions not letters - pretty much anything seems possible, except Se or Fe dom (ESXP or EXFJ). But even those could just be bad stereotyping together with my dominant function being so much a part of me that I struggle to see it. Te dom also seems unlikely but again circumstance hasn't presented me with a situation to bend to my will so it's marginally more likely.


You were hoping for a rebuttal so you will probably be disapointed by this response but I really don't care what type I am and could argue for/against most types, I just want to know because being interested in something yet not good enough at it to apply it to myself is painful. Hope this helps?


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## Finaille (Aug 8, 2010)

I guess I wasn't entirely expecting a rebuttal, it was primarily to see where you would pick it apart. I was curious to see where you would go with it, and reading your newest post does present the possibility of ENTP a little bit more strongly.

It sounds like you've gone through some difficulties recently, which can create a lot of various outcomes in how you present yourself. I know when I hit a depression, I felt very unsure and all over the place. I wanted to do something with my life, but I had no idea where to start. I honestly felt extremely lost. I'm still struggling... but I know doing nothing will get me nowhere. For some reason, your last comment would strike me VERY much as an ENxP... but I know looking at everything overall (your posts, your tone) does not present as ENFP either. But yeah, the more I read... the more Ne actually makes a LOT of sense. It seems like you have the wonderful ability to see multiple sides of a situation. The type 5 may have more to contribute regarding trusting what you see until you can prove it . I am type 6w7.... I find myself being both optimistic and pessimistic about various possibilities. 

I guess by fun, I meant intriguing. You sound like an interesting individual that I would want to get to know. I hope that you can see the value in who you are someday .

I don't know much about how an ENTP type 5 would present, actually. I should have to look into it.

Oh yeah, I don't see any Se whatsoever, but I can't tell if you're a Fe or Fi. Either way, it's in your tertiary or inferior.

Ne is a very draining dominant function and Ne-doms tend to need more time alone to process thoughts and theories. I need a lot of alone time, but would definitely say I lean extravert through other aspects. I don't equate preferring to be alone as an introversion trait! But one thing you did say that told me 'extravert' is when you go out with friends. Many introverts I know would hem and haw about going out, especially if they didn't want to. Sounds like you did it anyways and don't have too many qualms about it.


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## suicidal_orange (May 6, 2010)

I tried to write this yesterday but gave up. It's the same thing that happens nearly everytime I talk to all but a couple of people - it's like I speak English as a second language so everything is heard slightly wrong and gets misinterpreted (no offense to those who actually do speak another language :happy



Finaille said:


> It sounds like you've gone through some difficulties recently


No. Nothing significantly traumatising has happened in two years and even that didn't really happen (dad left for a couple of weeks but came back). I've been living at home in a relatively peaceful environment and have had a steady job that while ideal isn't great but the flexibility suits me for nearly six years.



Finaille said:


> I guess by fun, I meant intriguing. You sound like an interesting individual that I would want to get to know.


Fair enough. From what I know of ENFPs they like cracking the cold shells of people like me so I may well be intriguing to you. When I think of fun people I think of people with lots of interests who come up with things to do or interesting topics to discuss, I don't do these things.



Finaille said:


> I hope that you can see the value in who you are someday


I'm great if you want something done, there is a way to do pretty much anything and I can usually find it. I'm great if you need calming down, and at providing an alternate explanation when you're convinced you know someone's motivation for something based on your own likely motivation. Possibly my best trait as a friend is my ability to find pretty much anything online. I do have many good qualities but being 'fun' is not one of them.



Finaille said:


> one thing you did say that told me 'extravert' is when you go out with friends. Many introverts I know would hem and haw about going out, especially if they didn't want to. Sounds like you did it anyways and don't have too many qualms about it.


I've spent a lot of time in introvert forums and I'm not sure I agree with you. Most introverts enjoy going out with people they like, they just wouldn't want to do it every day. This is how I've been too - at uni I was sociable for days on end then just pretended to be out and saw no-one for a while, I just didn't want to. Now I have to socialise at work all day (it's an open office and I take queries from colleagues and over the phone) so outside of work I can happily not see anyone socially for a month and could probably go longer but something usually comes up so it's untested. Or I can do things with people Wednesday through Sunday and never feel the desire to be alone as long as I'm enjoying whatever we're doing. Again, could probably go longer but nothing ever happens on a Monday... Extroversion? Could be, but as with everything else I'm not 100% convinced.

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts :happy:


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## Finaille (Aug 8, 2010)

Not a problem! I'm happy to add my input.

ETA- I think you must have Fe is a tertiary or inferior, now that I think about it. I'm an extravert, and if I don't want to go out with people (even when invited, and it makes sense that I should) I'm not going anywhere. I think people who use Fe are much more likely to do stuff with others and go along with it. I guess I don't care as much about what they think; a lot of my old friends had Fe and got really annoyed if I didn't join them on every single excursion. I think it's a large reason why I rarely get invitations to go out... I'm kinda unpredictable.

For the time being, I'm voting for you as an xNTP. Would hold my conclusions correct with both Ne AND Fe, and you are definitely a Ti-user over Te.


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## suicidal_orange (May 6, 2010)

Hi @marckos, I'm curious - what does a silent thanks mean?


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## suicidal_orange (May 6, 2010)

Final bump in the hope someone is bored enough to give an opinion before I go back to reading and lose myself in favour of one of the types I think I could be :frustrating:


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## allisreal (Mar 23, 2010)

I say INTP. You seem to have some insane Ti. I was quite impressed. 



> Thinking of real examples I keep returning to work where I make spreadsheets to do strange things. My supervisor in this area is usually happy with covering 98% of the possibilities while I wont settle for anything less than 100% e.g. "no-one would change their hours before they've worked a month" is probably true, but there's no reason someone couldn't so it must be covered.


This in particular sounds like Ne backing up Ti.


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## suicidal_orange (May 6, 2010)

allisreal said:


> I say INTP. You seem to have some insane Ti. I was quite impressed.
> 
> This in particular sounds like Ne backing up Ti.


Eh... Thanks?! If I had to pick one function I think I use it would have to be Ti. If something makes sense to me it just has to be right! I just don't feel I'm in my head enough to be an INTP (though it has been a while since I read about types) although functionally 'falling back' on what worked before having experimented does sound like Ne-Si. But this doesn't explain why some Ni doms could type me INFJ not so long ago. Were I an under extroverted ISTP however...

*resists reading*


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## suicidal_orange (May 6, 2010)

LiquidLight said:


> You know its also interesting to me that you made this video while you were sick and in bed. As a Fe-type I would NEVER do this. I'd obsess about making sure I was looking as impressive as I could (probably get a haircut, obsess over the right clothes, be careful about my intonation and mannerisms -- basically be unnatural to myself but try to put on a good front). You don't seem to care, which strikes me as very, very Fi.


Sorry to steal a quote from another thread but I've started reading again and came across this thought which seemed relevant to me.

I would be somewhat like you desribe an Fe type - wanting to look at least pretty good to keep the focus on my words rather than being judged based on my appearance, and I wouldn't do a video whilst sick as I'd likely not be up to doing a good job on the words either. 

Do you still see this as Fe in my case? How far 'down' can Fe be before you just don't care? (IXTPs are often said not to, but in my understanding they should care more than EXTP as the inferior function causes more stress). I have much to learn about Fi types so not sure where they fit in beyond being very intriguing to me (assuming the ones I've spoken to are correctly typed...)

Thanks for any thoughts :happy:


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## suicidal_orange (May 6, 2010)

I'm now thinking that I must be an inferior Fe type. Which one I'm still not sure, but from a personal discovery point of view I guess it doesn't matter. Might do me good to live with my incompetence for a while. 

Would be nice to have a label under my name though...


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## dulcinea (Aug 22, 2011)

If you rarely start conversations and have to prompted in group discussions, you're most likely an introvert.

You sound like you lean more toward intuitive because at works, for instance, you feel the need to cover all the possibilities. That sounds a lot like Extroverted Intuition.

Definitely a Thinker. A person thinks more in terms of solving problems, troubleshooting (Introverted Thinking) or being efficient/practical (Extroverted Thinking) than empathizing with others or caring about values as much. You sound like you're a heavy Ti user.

You definitely have a perceiving preference, because you can change plans quickly, you're not very organized (which TJ types usually are).

I would say INTP whose probably not extremely introverted and probably sometimes borders between N and S. From this limited amount of information, you sound like you have an intuitive preference but you sound like you also vacillate between Ne and Se because you say you enjoy doing things for fun that require you to be aware of your surrounding and you like to be hands on. I could be wrong here. It's just the vibe I get.

If you're unsure, though, it may be because in one of the elements, you're not extremely strong; maybe you have a weak I or N, so, perhaps you don't necessarily relate to all the type descriptions or posts written by people of a particular type.


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## dulcinea (Aug 22, 2011)

asmit127 said:


> Sorry to steal a quote from another thread but I've started reading again and came across this thought which seemed relevant to me.
> 
> I would be somewhat like you desribe an Fe type - wanting to look at least pretty good to keep the focus on my words rather than being judged based on my appearance, and I wouldn't do a video whilst sick as I'd likely not be up to doing a good job on the words either.
> 
> ...


You don't sound like you have any Fi traits. A Fi user makes decisions based on values and feelings; when dealing with other people's problems, Fi users (or any feeler type) rarely ever approach it as if they wanted to fix a problem. They don't see someone crying who's relationship ended or whatever in a similar way we would view someone whose toaster just broke and needs to be fixed. You sound a lot more like Ti. Ti's approach is: troubleshoot, analyze, fix it....


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## suicidal_orange (May 6, 2010)

Thanks @dulcinea :happy:

If you go by letter stereotypes there's no doubt I'm an ITP. But I see considerable room for misinterpretation between Te efficiency and Ti-Se efficiency - "ISTPs often value efficiency above all else which is great until they underestimate a task and fail to meet deadlines ... They may optimise themself out of a job" (paraphrased from Gifts Differing). I haven't mentioned efficiency anywhere in this thread but it is a big part of my worldview and I have improved lots of processes at work to the point I don't have anything to do in my real job for half of the month, so I get to do more development stuff. But I'm not big picture 'creative' while doing this, I'm usually tweaking what already exists.

The Fi possibility is a bit harder to see but I do have some crazy, illogical 'beliefs' really well hidden. Could it not be argued that an Fi individual could have chosen truth, efficiency and justice as very important to them, which would make them appear T like?

You're right about the emotional person and the toaster though, no difference at all. Except toasters are electrical circuits and make sense so can be pulled apart (probably before waiting for it to cool down or remembering to unplug it) while emotional people expect something which I'm yet to get my head round. They do affect me badly (which I'd never let show so they don't feel a burden) but I would rather get all the details and analyse what went wrong to save them going through it again than to sit there as a shoulder to cry on. And no matter what they'd best not repeat themself more than once or I will have to tell them of it :blushed:

The trouble isn't not seeing myself in types/functions, it's seeing me everywhere. "Troubleshoot, analyse, fix it" does sound a lot like me though!


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## luemb (Dec 21, 2010)

@asmit127

Wow....

You are very similar to me. I don't have time to go through this in detail, as I have several hours of homework sitting in front of me. I'm leaning towards INTJ myself, but as you can see I haven't said that in my profile as I'm not entirely sure. The Ni dominance does lead to a lot of variation.

Nope, I reread some sentences of yours and the INTJ "voice" was completely clear. I'm entirely sure you an INTJ. 

Can I have my cookie now?


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## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

You're definitely a T type, as you completely projected how "illogical" Fi seems to you here:


> The Fi possibility is a bit harder to see but I do have some crazy, illogical 'beliefs' really well hidden. Could it not be argued that an Fi individual could have chosen truth, efficiency and justice as very important to them, which would make them appear T like?


I can relate to this as well as an INTJ about having some uber bizarre and illogical personal values, so you may be an INTJ. Fi individuals would probably feel that this is irrelevant in terms of the logic itself, but they might choose these just because it appeals to their Fi somehow and just get the logic right to appeal to how much they want this interest to conform to their values. Everyone uses all of their functions - type just depends on which ones you give the most priority in your life (which you would rather not want to "live without" so-to-speak). That's it.


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## Draco (Feb 2, 2012)

You seem to come across like an INTP or INTJ to me.

The constant doubt and rethinking sound incredibly familiar to me, also about the mistyping.
During my first years at university I was in a depression and looking for who/what I was and wanted to be. It was then that I typed as an INFJ. In retrospect I think I was projecting my own wishes and expectations, since the traits of an INFJ roughly coincided with how I wanted myself to be and the ideals of what I was studying for (a diplomat).

Try reading this:
An INTP Profile

It's probably the best description of an INTP I've come across so far.


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## suicidal_orange (May 6, 2010)

listentothemountains said:


> Wow....
> 
> You are very similar to me. I don't have time to go through this in detail, as I have several hours of homework sitting in front of me. I'm leaning towards INTJ myself, but as you can see I haven't said that in my profile as I'm not entirely sure. The Ni dominance does lead to a lot of variation.
> 
> Nope, I reread some sentences of yours and the INTJ "voice" was completely clear. I'm entirely sure you an INTJ.


If you hadn't been seeing Ti-Ne in the other thread I might take your word for it, but putting it down to a random "voice" and similarity to yourself (a fellow 'unknown') sounds suspect. If you could come back and explain when your homework's done that would be great :happy:



listentothemountains said:


> Can I have my cookie now?


Not yet. Though I guess I must be an Intuitive - I knew people who want cookies and are overseas! :wink:



JungyesMBTIno said:


> You're definitely a T type, as you completely projected how "illogical" Fi seems to you here:
> 
> I can relate to this as well as an INTJ about having some uber bizarre and illogical personal values, so you may be an INTJ. Fi individuals would probably feel that this is irrelevant in terms of the logic itself, but they might choose these just because it appeals to their Fi somehow and just get the logic right to appeal to how much they want this interest to conform to their values. Everyone uses all of their functions - type just depends on which ones you give the most priority in your life (which you would rather not want to "live without" so-to-speak). That's it.


Thanks - this sounds reasonable so I guess I can rule being a strong Fi user out. I didn't think I understood it well enough for it to be my dominant function, unless it was so natural I couldn't see it as I've read somewhere.



So, two votes for INTJ. Strange... I really don't see myself as a dominant intuitive and I want to see and understand things myself, doubting anything I see as common opinion (brainwashing) which I'd always thought to be Ti. Unless the Te is the 'reality focus' I've been confusing for being a Sensor and the Ni makes me look beyond... I guess that makes sense? I'll go back to the photo/functions thread in the morning.





Draco said:


> You seem to come across like an INTP or INTJ to me.
> 
> The constant doubt and rethinking sound incredibly familiar to me, also about the mistyping.
> During my first years at university I was in a depression and looking for who/what I was and wanted to be. It was then that I typed as an INFJ. In retrospect I think I was projecting my own wishes and expectations, since the traits of an INFJ roughly coincided with how I wanted myself to be and the ideals of what I was studying for (a diplomat).
> ...


That profile was one of the first I read, over two years ago :laughing: It's the accurate profile referenced in my introduction to this thread.

If you're considering both INTP and INTJ you are not looking at this functionally as the two types share no functions - the appearances may be similar but they are unimportant. In this thread I sound like a T because that's how I see myself this week but if you look at this old thread I sound like an F, and everything I said there is true. Or last year's thread which also came out as F (but a completely different type to the one before) and that's not wrong eitiher, it just depends what I present at the time - a couple of thousand words is not enough to show an entire personality. That's why I said to ignore the words and focus on the structure and thinking patterns.

Congratulations on working out what you want and want to be though - I'm still working on those things too!




On a sidenote I wonder how having a non-funny squirrel photo for an avatar (as I had for a very long time before removing it for this thread) might have influenced people's opinions. Not one non NT guess?!


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## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

> So, two votes for INTJ. Strange... I really don't see myself as a dominant intuitive and I want to see and understand things myself, doubting anything I see as common opinion (brainwashing) which I'd always thought to be Ti. Unless the Te is the 'reality focus' I've been confusing for being a Sensor and the Ni makes me look beyond... I guess that makes sense? I'll go back to the photo/functions thread in the morning.


The anti-brainwashing approach would most likely come from Ni, since Ni tends to never take anything at face value and thinks there's always a lot much deeper than what meets the eye about anything. It's stereotyped as being conspiratorial for a reason. I think you have been confusing Te for Se, which is very common, since people are bad at emphasizing the fact that Te is really a logic function above all (Se is an irrational function).


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## luemb (Dec 21, 2010)

asmit127 said:


> If you hadn't been seeing Ti-Ne in the other thread I might take your word for it, but putting it down to a random "voice" and similarity to yourself (a fellow 'unknown') sounds suspect. If you could come back and explain when your homework's done that would be great :happy:


Alrighty. Now that my homework is done I'll go through and explain. Again, feel free to question my understanding on any of these explanations. 

So, in the other thread, this is what I saw as Ti:


> my (rusty ) understanding of the laws of refraction


 Using laws and principles is more Ti, whereas reasoning from evidence or facts in front of you is more Te. So, for me, I saw that it had to be flipped twice to get from the one image to the other, which I'm pretty sure is Te type reasoning. Given that Ti reasoning wasn't successful for you, maybe Te reasoning works better.



> *2) What do you yearn for in life? Why?*
> Nothing. I've blamed this on being depressed but it's not really because I'm quite happy now. I can't want what I've never had because I don't know for sure that I'll like it so it doesn't make sense to put any effort in to finding it only to regret it later, so I just float through life and take whatever comes. I guess I'd like one perfect person/lifestyle/career to appear and grab me as I have plenty of confidence that I can do whatever I want, I just lack the desire.


You are pretty high up on the perceiving scale, and you are an introvert. (I can't ignore the fact that the way you worded this sounds so much like my INTJ friend, fwiw.)


> *3) Think about a time where you felt like you were at your finest. Tell us what made you feel that way.*
> Doing something someone said is impossible. It doesn't matter that said thing has sat unused for months, I know I did it and so does the someone - large scale recognition not required.


Te types like a challenge, but then so do most NTs. Following through with it though is more Te and Ti... Ti is more "I know I could do it in theory" and Te is more "I have done it so now you can't argue."


> *4) What makes you feel inferior?*
> Primarily it's emotional people. I just don't know what to do, especially having read how Fs don't want solutions they just want someone to listen. Luckily I am able to hold my tongue most of the time but allowing people to wallow is hard - I want to fix it, to make their life as easy as mine. I don't see the point of cleaning a wound while there's still a shard of glass embedded in it.
> 
> Another one is having a gap in my knowledge in an area that's useful. I'm the technology person yet I have an intense dislike for web design, which lots of people want both personally and professionally.


Te - dealing with life by coming up with a plan of action, a way of fixing something objectively. 
Fi - "I am able to hold my tongue most of the time " - acceptance of other as individuals, and self-judgement in terms of what is right morally. 



> *5) What tends to weigh on your decisions? (Do you think about people, pro-cons, how you feel about it, etc.)*
> I try to find the perfect solution. I like to think I base my decisions purely on logic but logically the impact on the people involved is often a big factor so maybe it's not logic at all. Feel free to give me a specific question and I'll see which applies and why.


This suggests your two judging functions are close to each other in development, ie you include both values and impersonal concepts in your decision making. 
Ni is generally a pretty good function at seeing the outcomes and making decisions that are well-balanced, even though a lot of the "reasoning" goes on unconsciously, and the best solutions just tend to show up, ie, there isn't really a profusion of ideas, just a few pretty good ones that need decided between, and the decision is made based on using Ni to see what the outcomes will be in each case. 



> *6) When working on a project what is normally your emphasis? Do you like to have control of the outcome?*
> My emphasis is firmly on the creation. I jump straight in at the implimentation phase attacking the hardest parts first. Only if I get stuck will I write out a plan for that specific part, or talk about it to someone (them knowing what I'm talking about is optional - in the course of explaining the problem it usually clicks) before going back to doing. Once I've worked out how it could work I could drop it but if completion is required I'll finish it to a working state, but things like making it pretty and writing documentation are too dull so I leave them to someone else if at all possible.
> 
> The only exception that comes to mind was when doing presentations - I'm a good proof reader so once someone else had made the pretty slides I'd much rather do the final checks myself than trust someone else to.


Your ability to create directly from your own mind and go straight to implementation could easily be a Ni-Te thing. There isn't a lot of a case for Ne here, as Ne would spend more time coming up with possibilities before jumping in. 



> *7) Describe us a time where you had a lot of fun. How is your memory of it? *
> Possibly the hardest question on here? Fun is a strange concept, I'd suggest I'm having fun whenever I'm immersed in something. This could be while on a long walk or soldering a DIY electronics project. I feel most alive and invigorated when I'm reminded that I have a physical body such as when stood on a windy hilltop or walking on snow and ice, constantly adjusting so as not to slip. Specific memories of "fun" are hard to come by so I'll just say they're vague.


Lots of Se here. "I'm reminded that I have a physical body" Pretty much clinches it that Se is inferior and not auxillary for you. Often times our 4th function is the one that gives us the most freeing pleasure when it is working right. 



> *8) When you want to learn something new, what feels more natural for you? (Are you more prone to be hands on, to theorize, to memorize, etc)*
> Hands on all the way. Learning how to do something from a book/website is pointless, watching someone else do it can be useful but only once I've actually done it myself has it any chance of sticking.
> 
> Usually I'll remember something for a couple of weeks having done it once but I'll still check I'm doing it right, then after the second or third time (once I'm sure of the required outcome) I start experimenting to refine my own method, which will include theorising. If my method doesn't come off I have the one I was taught to fall back on when the deadline nears.
> ...


Not an Si user then, as you would rather experiment with new approaches. As for learning by doing, that could be Se or Te as well. Te is normally more associated with learning methods and organized ways of doing things, but I think when combined with Ni the method part isn't as strong, but rather the ability to plan out steps as you are going and reason based on the information given to see what must come next. 



> *9) How organized do you to think of yourself as?*
> I'm not very organised.
> 
> My bedroom and desk at work are both states where I can find most things but anyone else would struggle and my house key often goes missing for days at a time. I would really struggle to be early for an appointment but it is very rare that I'm more than five minutes late - I have to be at work by 10 so usually four days a week my timesheet reads 9:55 or later, 10:00 is not unusual. I've not had chance to sit down in the waiting room for two job interviews...
> ...


Most of the INTJs aren't very organized... Ni is a percieving function. Could be any other perceiving function as well... however having inferior Se sometimes makes Ni users a little bit more paranoid about losing things. 



> *10) How do you judge new ideas? Do you try to understand the principles behind it to see if they make sense or do you look for information that supports it?*
> I'm a skeptic - every idea is flawed until proven otherwise. I run simulations in my head of possible scenarios and when I think I have something not covered I ask the "inventor" to explain how it's covered. Until it makes sense to me and I can see it covers all eventualities I'm not going to accept it, no explanation is better than a flawed one as the flawed one might be missing something fundamental.
> 
> Thinking of real examples I keep returning to work where I make spreadsheets to do strange things. My supervisor in this area is usually happy with covering 98% of the possibilities while I wont settle for anything less than 100% e.g. "no-one would change their hours before they've worked a month" is probably true, but there's no reason someone couldn't so it must be covered.


Ni-Te so much! Visualizing, running simulations, and then checking to see if it will actually work in real life? Pretty much a clear giveaway. This happens to me all the time when other people start theorizing. 

Possibility-generation like you listed in the second one also can come with Ni, as Ni can help you find and question the assumptions that other people make to see if they are valid. Ni is often aware of the assumptions inherent in whatever is going on. 


> *11) Do you find harmony by making sure everyone is doing fine and belonging to a given group or by making sure that you follow what you believe and being yourself?*
> Neither really. I've covered my inadequacy with people's emotional issues above so even if I do notice someone looking left out (highly unlikely, either I'll be immersed in a conversation or off in my own little world) I do nothing about it and I'm not a group person. At the gym despite having talked to a couple of regulars I still wear headphones all the time, I don't join in their near constant chatter.
> 
> At the same time I don't really have strong opinions and beliefs about most things because if I've not directly experienced something it's impossible to have an opinion on it. I tend to adopt the opinions of whoever I've been talking to most recently and argue those when the topic comes up elsewhere. If I have no opinion I'm not averse to playing devils advocate to see how good my "opponents" argument is.


Introverted for sure. 

Ok so you've stated the need to experience something to have an opinion on it twice now. This is interesting, as it is a stance that I normally take as well, but I have no idea how it fits with cognitive functions. Once it showed up in an INTJ thread that some of them like to travel to be able to experience the world from a different perspective. Maybe it is just a sign that you prefer perception above judgement, and since you are introverted, and we ruled out Si, then it must be Ni. 



> 1*2a) Are you the kind that thinks before speaking or do you speak before thinking?*
> In an informal environment I tend to talk first, joking about inappropriate things like cancer and coming across exactly as I feel which often isn't good. (e.g. I think there are enough healthy people on earth so anyone incapable of looking after themself should be humanely killed, which is not what someone visiting their gran in hospital for the third time this month wants to hear)
> 
> When it comes to talking about an idea I have to have a good grasp of what I'm going to say before I open my mouth. If I forget about this (and it does happen) I quickly contradict myself, get called on it, then stop talking because I can't be bothered to explain the contradictions which require explaining "me" not the topic at hand, which will still be being churned over in my mind.
> ...


Lack of Fe, and some Fi from the first paragraph. 
Second paragraph makes sense in terms of Ni-Te, ie seeing things from many sides at once, such that different ways of explaining things are possible and the mode of explaining changes as new understanding is brought to mind by the unconscious. 
The third and fourth paragraphs both confirm that you are introverted. Ni generally finds definitions to be confining, and often has many meanings for an word, but Si users have no problem with associating words and meanings more closely. Also, you prefer to perceive above judging yet again, so again I have to go with Ni first. 



> *13) Do you jump into action right away or do you like to know where are you jumping before leaping? *
> I like to know vaguely what's ahead but not specifics. "We're going out on Saturday night" is enough, no need to say where or what time, and I don't care who else is going.
> 
> *13b) Do action speaks more than words?*
> Yes. Words are far quicker and easier to manipulate to give a favourable impression (for those gifted in that department) than actions which by their nature require more effort, as well as words being very open to interpretation. Try some straight faced sarcasm or feigned stupidity to see just how little words alone actually mean. That said, kind words from someone I know which I consider to be genuine can bring a tear to my eye.


Desire for genuineness suggests Fi somewhere in your makeup. 



> 14) It's Saturday. You're at home, and your favorite show is about to start. Your friends call you for a night out. What will you do?
> Assuming I'm not depressed or genuinely too busy to hear the phone ring I'll probably head for the shower in preparation for a night out. Whatever I was doing (it probably wouldn't be tv) can wait until tomorrow. If I am in the middle of something and do hear my phone there's a good chance I wont answer, it's better to lie about not hearing it than to have to tell people what I'm doing that's more fun than seeing them, especially when I don't see people often. I struggle to say no as I'm sure they wont invite me next time and next time I might be nearer bored and welcome the opportunity.
> 
> 15) How do you act when you're stressed out?
> I'm very short tempered with people who distract me from whatever it is that's stressing me out. This is usually short term such as when I'm struggling to find something or trying to solder something awkward. It's hard to say more than that because I'm so laid back - I accidentally deleted everything on my computer recently but getting stressed wont help, so I don't.


A hint of planning for the future (Ni-Te) and Ni-Fi in terms of self-judgement, and ensuring that your perspective is fair. 



> *16) How do you form opinions/judge other people, what about personalities of others, do you tend to value and what do you dislike?*
> I feel the need to make a distinction between liking someone, disliking them, and just not caring either way. Most people fit into the last category because on meeting someone the conversation is usually shallow and credibility cannot be established meaning the only thing to go on is appearances (both physical and the persona they choose to present). Harsh as it sounds I don't need lots of friends so I'm not inclined to get to know people enough to promote them to the "like" category.
> 
> The exception is when someone is extra honest such as a girl I worked with telling me I was skinny without being asked. Instant promotion!
> ...


Some Te in wanting to be clear what your relationships are with other people. The liking for honesty can be the Te-Fi combo. 

A desire to be flexible and not constrained is also a hint towards Ni. Also, your last sentence suggests Ni as well, in that you trust your perception even though you don't know why, and that that perception is strong enough that you actually notice it and pay attention to it. 



> *17) Is there anything you really like talking about with other people?*
> If by talking this means having a conversation then there is only one reason to do it - knowledge sharing. If the topic is impersonal hearing anyone's take on it can be interesting, I can then think about it later and consider amending my views (assuming I had any to begin with - if it doesn't directly affect me it's likely I don't).
> 
> If the topic is personal hearing someone's opinion without knowing who they are and which of their experiences could be colouring their view is pointless. For this reason when I do meet someone interesting I am very interested in learning everything about them, which has been mistaken for romantic interest at least twice, both times I was oblivious and a mutual friend told me later.
> ...


Knowledge-sharing as the purpose of conversation sounds like Te to me. Te believes that knowledge is outside of self and is something that we can all agree upon. Thus, the sharing of knowledge is what Te users like to do, sticking to facts and truths that can be discussed and reasoned over collectively. They are interested in "non-opinion" questions, things that can be decided as true or false. 

I'm placing my cookie order now. I'm starving. 



> 18) What kind of things do pay the least attention to in your life?
> Anything that's not forced into my immediate awareness had may as well not exist. When walking/driving I'm completely aware of my surroundings - as long as they move. The white cat sitting in the middle of the road? Didn't see it... (don't worry, it saw me ) This actually scales very well in to all aspects of life. I can get up and start doing something and go from thing to thing (or focus on one thing all day) only noticing I'm hungry once it's dark, and while I'm in the kitchen I'd may as well get a first drink for the day.
> 
> Thinking longer term I don't like starting big things without knowing they will bring lasting satisfaction so I avoid thinking of the future - who knows what it might bring, no point trying to prepare. I don't do saving because I could get hit by a bus tomorrow.
> ...


A lot of the times Ni users are said to be focused on the future, on what might happen... this seems to be in disagreement with what you said here. However, you said "I don't like starting big things without knowing they will bring lasting satisfaction " but how will you know that they will bring lasting satisfaction unless you are used to trying to see the results of an outcome? So I don't think what you said is incompatible with Ni, just that you decided to try not to plan out the future too much on the basis that it is impossible to know what will actually happen. Others have suggested that Ni works the best when simply perceiving the world, and perhaps it is Te that makes plans of action about the future based on what Ni predicts. 



> 19) How do your friends perceive you? What is wrong about their perception? What would your friends never say about your personality?
> The most commonly commented on trait is my ability to overanalyse anything, some advice from my oldest friend last year was "you just need to follow your heart sometimes". Next is the acknowledgement that I'm a calming influence, if anything I'm too laid back - this frustrates some people. Can't really argue with either of these... Another thing is that people seem to assume I'm sensitive although my face rarely betrays my emotional state so I'm not really sure why. If I consider their criticism valid I'm already aware of it so it doesn't hurt while if I don't think it valid I ignore it, without bothering to explain why they're wrong. Perhaps my lack of response (I believe retaliation is expected?) is seen as weakness.
> 
> Things no-one would say about me are that I'm warm, emotional or unreliable.


Definitely a T, and this seems so much like an INTJ. " If I consider their criticism valid I'm already aware of it so it doesn't hurt while if I don't think it valid I ignore it, without bothering to explain why they're wrong." Typical INTJ response, such as are seen consistently in the INTJ forum. 



> 20) You got a whole day to do whatever you like. What kind of activities do you feel like doing?
> I have two days every week like this because I have no commitments (and I like this freedom) and enough money to do whatever I want.
> 
> Today was such a day and I've done - nothing. I didn't consider contacting anyone to do anything with and I haven't even looked on PerC or logged on to MSN or skype to talk to people, I've just been happy in my own company. I have read about my new motherboard online and tweaked the overclock on it, read a bit of a book called "Organising fromt he Right Side of the Brain" (really funny in no small part due to it's accuracy) and now at nearly 8pm have decided to finish this questionnaire while running stress tests and downloading Windows 8. When the inevitable questions come at work next week I will once again be at a loss as to where the weekend has gone. Most people have given up asking.
> ...


 Well, sounds just like the sort of unplanned business that follows me around whenever I'm taking a break... I end up just doing whatever little things I want to do, but it's never a boring moment. 

There are some things to be shared with others, like going skiing, and others to be done alone, like going on a photography walk. Skiing though involves Se and being in touch with the physical world around you, but photography is slightly more Ni focused and being able to pay attention to your subjective impression of what is artistic and what is not, at least how I experience it.


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## suicidal_orange (May 6, 2010)

listentothemountains said:


> Alrighty. Now that my homework is done I'll go through and explain. Again, feel free to question my understanding on any of these explanations.


:shocked: I thought you were like me?! There's no way I'd have my homework done on a Saturday! I will take you up on your offer of questioning things because that's what I do.

I don't know why and it may just be a language thing but you seem to be believing what I've said in this thread to be an accurate and complete reflection of me and although I tried to cover everything it's just not possible. While I have learned a lot about myself in the past year there is much in this thread that contradicts this one. Especially of note is in the intro "I wont be arguing anything you say because I will revert to trying to convince you (and myself) I am what I want to be" which is applicable here. When writing this thread with all the good intention in the world not to I had to prove I wasn't an F and I did a great job it seems, but that doesn't mean it's true!

I wont ask you to disect the other post (unless you're really bored :laughing but I would be interested if it changes your opinion at all. 




> > Doing something someone said is impossible. It doesn't matter that said thing has sat unused for months, I know I did it and so does the someone - large scale recognition not required.
> 
> 
> Te types like a challenge, but then so do most NTs. Following through with it though is more Te and Ti... Ti is more "I know I could do it in theory" and Te is more "I have done it so now you can't argue."


This was at work, merely thinking about it wasn't good enough as it is supposed to actually be used! They've now decided they will use it so six+ months on I have to get my head around something that's complicated with no documentation or comments in the code... not looking forward to that. Knowing I could do it would be enough for me. 

I also question why you think STs don't like challenges, especially as this was something with real-world use?



> > I try to find the perfect solution. I like to think I base my decisions purely on logic but logically the impact on the people involved is often a big factor so maybe it's not logic at all.
> 
> 
> This suggests your two judging functions are close to each other in development, ie you include both values and impersonal concepts in your decision making.


Or, it shows very weak feeling and I'm being over-sensitive to the needs of others to cover up the weakness? 



> Your ability to create directly from your own mind and go straight to implementation could easily be a Ni-Te thing.


Yet Ti is said to be in the moment - how can you analyse a problem logically withouth having a half completed model to play with?



> Most of the INTJs aren't very organized... Ni is a percieving function. Could be any other perceiving function as well... however having inferior Se sometimes makes Ni users a little bit more paranoid about losing things.


I'm not paranoid at all - I happily throw my key (pen, wallet, ipod) in roughly the same place most days yet these things still disappear! I don't expect it at all, so it's anti-paranoia if anything. Very annoying though...



> Ok so you've stated the need to experience something to have an opinion on it twice now. This is interesting, as it is a stance that I normally take as well, but I have no idea how it fits with cognitive functions.


I'd think it is related to (a) certain function combination(s?) but how do you get a complete range of answers? A multi choice poll with ITP ITJ and ISP ISJ style groupings? Do we trust that enough correctly typed people will answer so as to give an accurate result? The 20 choice limit is... limiting :laughing: either way.



> > In an informal environment I tend to talk first, joking about inappropriate things like cancer and coming across exactly as I feel which often isn't good. (e.g. I think there are enough healthy people on earth so anyone incapable of looking after themself should be humanely killed, which is not what someone visiting their gran in hospital for the third time this month wants to hear)
> 
> 
> Lack of Fe, and some Fi


This is one of the areas that makes me think Fi, but is an F function required at all to logically analyse the world's situation? If logically humans aren't special I don't see the need for personal values to justify killing them.



> Te believes that knowledge is outside of self and is something that we can all agree upon. Thus, the sharing of knowledge is what Te users like to do, sticking to facts and truths that can be discussed and reasoned over collectively.


But doesn't this lead to arguing your logical point is accurate or at least seeking agreement? I don't, I believe everyone will have a different and interesting take on things and try to blend their views to form my own understanding. Maybe it's because it's hidden behind Ni...



> "If I consider their criticism valid I'm already aware of it so it doesn't hurt while if I don't think it valid I ignore it, without bothering to explain why they're wrong." Typical INTJ response, such as are seen consistently in the INTJ forum.


It is, so typical it became a stereotype written in profiles to be mindlessly echoed by anyone wanting to fit in... INTJ is a desirable type, people will lie to keep their label. I've playfully criticised a couple of INTJs I don't know at all, neither were true to this stereotype. My experience > all, yet my experience is once again questioned (if they weren't INTJs the stereotype might be accurate).


You've done a great job of showing that INTJ fits well but I keep thinking "yeah but...". Plus, that would mean I've been completely wrong on functions and meaningful letters for the past year - how incompetent does that make me?  

Thanks again for the long explanation, I'll think about it while trying to ignore this topic for today as my exam is now tomorrow so I really should do some preparation!


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## Staffan (Nov 15, 2011)

It seems a typical mark of the INTP to not be able to determine their own type : )


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## luemb (Dec 21, 2010)

@asmit127 I've read the other post as well. I would say that, in comparison with other people, it was still very much the same as this one. 

Before I analyse any further I want to clear a few things up... again, this is just what I'm seeing and I may be completely wrong (chances of that are about 2% though). 

First of all, you are probably overloading on your introverted functions, and your main extroverted one isn't working as it should. This leaves you disconnected with reality, allowing you to feel like there is no way of defining who you are. As you said, there are multiple ways of understanding what a word means, and, when looking at yourself, you can see several different possible functions. As you read through descriptions of the functions, you probably spend time comparing them back to yourself, asking if there is any way of making that description fit who you are. If you have Ni, such as was concluded on the other thread and that I think also, then by looking inside yourself you will be able to twist your understanding of everything however you want. You need to use your extroverted function to provide a grounding base for what we are talking about. So I'm going to suggest that you go read my thread on cognitive functions. I wrote that thread for the express purpose of having an external standard by which we can evaluate the cognitive functions. Don't apply them to yourself though, just look to see what they are defined as.

Secondly, (and this might be brutally honest, but I think you would prefer honesty over beating around the bush) it is interesting that you suggested that I was only seeing the surface level of your words rather than understanding that you are much more complicated than just those words. This is a bit of projection of yourself and your fears of not being able to see the concepts that are beyond the surface level. Again, Ni dom, Se inferior. (What I am actually seeing is not the words at all, but the thought processes that would have gotten you to those words, although I do back up what I say with references to the results of your thoughts.) 

And, lastly, I think if we could solve the "yeah, but..." part then we would find out for sure what functions you use. I don't think it will be quick and easy though. I have a feeling though that this is arising because you don't really understand the functions yet or how your brain works.


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## suicidal_orange (May 6, 2010)

@_listentothemountains_ thanks for this, brutal honesty is definitely required and much appreciated. No point asking for help and only getting people agreeing and being nice - that's not going to get to the truth! That you see some similarity between now and last year and have correctly guessed the constant editing of my understanding while reading about this stuff does suggest you've gone beyond the words which is very encouraging and I'm sorry to have projected my weaknesses on to you. I don't know me so I sure as hell can't get my head around anyone else being able to, especially a stranger with little knowledge of my life - yet you demonstrate it's at least somewhat possible.

You're also right about my understanding of the functions, without relating them to myself they are just strings of meaningless words that I don't understand as standalone concepts, so I can't really understand them. The problem is that I can't read impersonal text without relating it to something real and known, I find it boring. The Cog Functions link in your signature I read the whole first part (Ti vs Ni) with ease as it was personal but even the short descriptions in your thread were too long without relating them to anything, I drifted off. Yet your explanation of the use of discrimination was laughable - it was very obvious to me from the context so I'm not surprised you listed communication skills as high up on your function list.

I could just take your word that I'm an INTJ because you've presented a very convincing argument but unless I understand and see it for myself that will just lead to me questioning it again sooner or later so I'm not going to. I've never been a fan of quick and easy anyway, I'd rather take my time and do something properly so where should I begin? I guess I'll have to train myself to read things that I don't find interesting 

EDIT: The link isn't personal, it's comparitive. Comparing functions works but in isolation I don't get it...


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## luemb (Dec 21, 2010)

asmit127 said:


> I could just take your word that I'm an INTJ because you've presented a very convincing argument but unless I understand and see it for myself that will just lead to me questioning it again sooner or later so I'm not going to. I've never been a fan of quick and easy anyway, I'd rather take my time and do something properly so where should I begin? I guess I'll have to train myself to read things that I don't find interesting


Absolutely! That's the point I wanted to make but couldn't remember.  

It is fair enough that you find it hard to understand the cognitive functions in isolation from each other. 

I'm not sure what to do next though... since I don't want to be overly-confident that you are a certain type and try to relate everything back to that, because if I'm wrong then you will just be more confused. 

Since you said that the comparisons worked well, you might want to look around for more comparison and contrast threads. Finding good ones though is the tricky bit.

EDIT: This one is an interesting thread, and has some links to other interesting ones in it. http://personalitycafe.com/cognitive-functions/81831-se-types-riddle-me.html

This is the one with the comparisons: http://personalitycafe.com/cognitive-functions/79667-eyes-world.html


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## suicidal_orange (May 6, 2010)

So... Se users have very different takes on abnormal apples varying from making strange noises based solely on the prediction that blue = great (stereotype Se dom, very expressive) to barely caring because there is no subject just a vague suggestion of one (like I think and thought it suggested Ti-Se realism) to giving in great detail their preferences regarding apples (Fi dom - my values are more important?). Interesting thread :happy:

Maybe I should make random threads like that and see how different types react, but this still wont teach me the functions just possible reactions based on them. There must be some good comparisons somewhere, I'll have to find them. 

It was strange seeing a Ti and Ni though, one being a J and the other a P function. Strange yet definitely helpful.


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## luemb (Dec 21, 2010)

ok I have two more links for you, 

This is "pure Ti." http://personalitycafe.com/cognitive-functions/81032-ti-vacuum.html The introverted thinking really shows in how his statements are logically true in themselves. 
(If watching videos helps, there is a whole thread of videos on the forum as well, with different PerC members talking about themselves.) 

This is also a great thread, and it is unfortunate that it is not longer: http://personalitycafe.com/cognitive-functions/74942-specific-examples-cognitive-functions.html


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## suicidal_orange (May 6, 2010)

@listentothemountains what do you think about the dom-tert loop descriptions? Assuming I am over-introverted one should fit, but the ISFP/INTJ doesn't seem very 'me'. If you rate them I'll say more, if not I'll move on :happy:


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## luemb (Dec 21, 2010)

@asmit127

Those descriptions are a little over-the-top, they are a too stereotyped. I don't identify with the ISFP/INTJ one either, and yet I'm clearly one of those two types, and I am deeply introverted. 

Was there one that you did identify more with? 

What happens for me when I'm extroverting a lot I really enjoy my extroverted functions, but afterwards I regret what I said and berate myself for it, and I'm less willing to try again. I don't often extrovert well, since I tend to misread situations and then only afterwards recognise that I was completely wrong about something, or had missed a vital clue to understanding what was going on. At that point though it's very hard to go back and fix it, so I tend to stay introverted and be very careful about what I say. 

Also, how comfortable are you discussing pure theory? Do you enjoy theorizing?


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## suicidal_orange (May 6, 2010)

Over the top definitely, yet exageration shows greater differentiation :happy:

Of those descriptions I'd have to say the ISTP/INFJ sounds very likely, so much so that after reading it for the first time long ago I read up about Schizoid Personality Disorder and booked myself in to see a psychologist. Though on going to write about that now I realise I realise that I do sound utterly paranoid in my approach to doing so. 

Most people go to their GP to get referred before seeing a psychologist but not me, GPs keep records and records are bad so I found my own. One of the first things the psychologist wanted to do was send a letter to my GP but she needed my permission and I wouldn't give it. My GP knows nothing anyway, I'd never met her at the time. She also wanted my address to send invoices to and she never got that either. If I wasn't going to pay the invoice what about a cheque? Nope, then the bank would know what I spent and where! I deal almost exclusively in cash or paypal, the bank knows nothing except where I work and that I like animals (charity donations).

In the process of writing this post I actually started with three possibilities but on actually trying to verbalise them they fell apart. Worked perfectly in my head this morning and all day at work but is there any relevance with concrete examples to back it up? No. And the one I didn't think fitted well at all now looks the most likely. 

Unlike you I don't enjoy extroverting verbally at all. I'm incredibly private and afford others the same coutesy by never asking what I consider to be probing questions, although apparently you're supposed to because it shows you're interested. Thing is, I'm not. It's your life and hearing you recall what you did is nowhere near as fun as it is for you reliving it as you talk no matter what you may think. I struggle to keep track of the few people I do want to know without trying to remember the names of everyone I meet's partner, sibling(s) and/or friends!

Earlier in this thread is an example of what usually happens when I do talk. I try to choose the perfect words to say exactly what I mean yet it's like everyone reads between the lines and misses what I'm trying to say so I get frustrated . I am very aware that words have multiple meanings and often doubt I've chosen the right one in interpreting someone else and from discussing this with the guy I sit next to at work it's because I don't use 'normal' definitions or sentence structure, whatever that may be. Apparently my sentences are too long which can be confusing and to top it off I've been accused of talking too fast. Thus I don't talk much and only see people to 'do something' with, which could easily be seen as "socially incompetent for lack of trying" as suggested in the Ni-Ti loop. I know what I need to change but I wont do it!* When I no longer want to do what the people I did whatever with do I drop them. I quit smoking weed at uni, pretty much ignored my housemates of three years for the last four months and left early one morning without saying bye. Another example of inapropriateness would be going against the alleged dress code at work**

I don't think I do like discussing 'pure theory', but as always I question what you are talking about. 

Theorising on my own usually involves reflection rather than projection - what happened happened and can be interpretted, what might happen is unknown and speculating would be a waste of time. I do this a lot so I must enjoy it.

Sorry but I have to go to bed now so haven't got time to tidy this up, hope it makes some sense :blushed:



* This I felt also went quite well with the ENTP loop, testing people's responses and at times taking great pleasure from confusing people. Also in here was making changes small (adopting thier hobby) and significant (becoming a vegetarian) to impress people who didn't ask/suggest it while having no motivation to do anything for myself.

** Which I had put in the INTP/ISFJ loop as deliberate rebelling at pointless social constructs. Again the not talking because I talked weird and failed to connect seems to fit here too, "I think too weird so I'll never be accepted so why bother". Not trying anything new also links back to the having no self motivation and wanting a guaranteed positive outcome.


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## luemb (Dec 21, 2010)

@asmit127 

I can see the Ti and Ni now. The Ti wants everything clear and precise, but the Ni causes a lot of definitional freedom. 

So now we are down to ISTP or INFJ. 
The fact that you don't enjoy extroverting verbally suggests Se as your preferred extroverted function. 

So how does that sound to you? What are you like when extroverting? Are you highly aware of your physical surroundings? Do you enjoy living in the moment and knowing what action to take next? Are you comfortable with the possibilities of doing actions? 

Also, I'm going to call up some of my ISTP friends... they might be able to give some more insight. @Mr.Nickster @madhatter (thanks!)


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## Cloudlight (Jan 5, 2011)

@asmit217
My highly unprofessional and tentative diagnosis is that you have a case of ISTP with developed Ni. ISTP is difficult to eradicate and it is not worth trying to do, but the good news is that people with ISTP are well-liked and generally have a variety of talents.  If you do feel like you are experiencing a Ti-Ni loop, then it will be much more difficult to delineate whether or not you are INFJ or ISTP.

I would agree with @listentothemountains. I think that you are ISTP or INFJ, though (as far as I understand) most INFJ's will follow social norms and behave in a way that pleases people in a way that you don't seem to. I have only read the OP and your last post, and it seems like your Ni is diluting your Ti in trying to verbalize your thoughts precisely, which might result in you feeling misunderstood. I can understand why you would identify with pieces of the ENTP definitions. ISTP's don't necessarily enjoy confusing people like an ENTP might, but they love keeping others on their toes. Along those lines, ISTP's will test those in their environment in various ways which mirrors some behavior of ENTP's. I take it that you like doing this considering your lack of awareness/caring to call your parents or say goodbye to your roommates. This also reminds me of the fact that one should never expect to see an ISTP until they see them.

If you are ISTP, then you seem to have highly developed Ni, which might explain your skepticism towards new ideas. I can see why INFJ could fit, though you mentioned that you do not search for much harmony (ISTP's just "do their own thing regardless of harmony), you strive for the perfect solution (ISTP trait), Anything that is not forced into your immediate awareness does not exist (the ISTP absurdly present lifestyle), the process of creation and jump to implementation (ISTP's "take part in the becoming of their worlds") etc, etc...All of these things speak ISTP with interesting twists to me, but please remember that I prefaced this post with the "highly unprofessional" bit. I will read over your previous posts to try and understand you a bit more.

EDIT: @madhatter is much better at this than I am. Take her words more heavily than mine if she shows up.


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## suicidal_orange (May 6, 2010)

@listentothemountains

I'm confused - somehow when I take the time to rework my writing I come off Ni-Te but 'raw' it's more Ni-Ti like? At least you're consistent in this assessment, I didn't give my posts in the picture/function thread too much thought being as they were supposed to be accounts of exactly what went through my head and you saw Ti there too.

How does ISTP sound? I feel good that I corrrectly saw Ti in myself and being an S fits with my thinking I was for the past year too. I like feeling competent even though it's undeserved as my understanding isn't great. But on a deeper level it's infuriating for precisely the same reasons - I see it as possible that I've somehow manipulated my writing so you see what I want you to see. While you disagreed with me I gave you more ... (something like respect, but not really :frustrating which is completely wrong being as at the end of the day the only person who can really tell my type is me. 

I'll assume we're going with the Jungian definition of extraversion in extending this beyond socialising to any interaction with something outside myself, in which case all your questions can be addressed at once.

I think that I have a strange relationship with the physical world. While it's true that if you put a box in a doorway I wont see it I wont trip over it either. I'll sit on a park bench lost in my head unable to say how many people walked past but the sound of a bird or squirrel high in a tree will grab my attention and I'll usually be able to look straight at it. Crowds of slow moving people are no different to lampposts, just obstacles to be avoided, so I've walked right past people I know in the street while assessing the crowd ahead for the most expedient route through it. If we take this crowd navigation as an example of knowing in the moment what to do then yes, I love it. 

But as soon as the goal is indefinite and possibilities creep in I want the definite best outcome and without knowing what that is I can't say I'm comfortable. 

Another thing that seems somewhat relevant to this was at work where a senior manager gave me a project but instead of giving me the whole thing I was given a bit at a time. Everytime I thought it was done she added something which really pissed me off. The end result was terribly inefficient and it took the best part of two weeks to make.

I guess that's my extraverion in a nutshell - it must have a predefined purpose. 

Random thought - isn't it usually extraverts that get their thoughts straight while/after talking about them?




Mr.Nickster said:


> ISTP is difficult to eradicate and it is not worth trying to do


Um... what? :laughing:

If you read my thread from last year you'll see a lot more of my flexible side but what I think is more important is how I feel about social norms and the like now that I'm in a reasonably good place in my life and more accepting of myself, whatever I find.

Other than that your post does support my life experience except perhaps regarding harmony. I try not do things I know will create disharmony and I like giving people an alternate perspective to restore theirs because disharmony has a strong negative effect on me.

Thanks for your thoughts, much appreciated :happy:


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## madhatter (May 30, 2010)

I've been summoned. So I guess I'll give my two cents. I shall add my voice to the pro-ISTP theory.

Your OP just screamed ISTP to me. What struck me as particularly ISTP, I bolded:




asmit127 said:


> *I thought that that all I needed to do was participate in the world outside of my head/room more and my genuine desire to help people will find some way of expressing itself, I'd become less cynical and I might even remember people's birthdays along with all the great stuff healthy Fe users do naturally...Sadly my theory was wrong and it hasn't worked. I am not a "nice" people person and for the first time in ages I'm comfortable with that (if I were nicer and kept in contact better I could have saved my friend was the illusion behind the desire)*





> The trouble is that *I do need people because people have problems that I can solve*, even if the problem is just boredom - I can do something with them so I get to feel good for helping and I usually enjoy it but for whatever reason I never want to do things so don't do the inviting. It's a shame that people don't have an off switch and *they have a tendency to take offense at my disappearing and ask about it when I return, which I dislike.* Is it really that hard to check in with people? Yes, it is.





> *Doing something someone said is impossible.* It doesn't matter that said thing has sat unused for months, I know I did it and so does the someone - large scale recognition not required.





> *4) What makes you feel inferior?*
> *Primarily it's emotional people.* *I just don't know what to do,* especially having read how Fs don't want solutions they just want someone to listen. Luckily I am able to hold my tongue most of the time but allowing people to wallow is hard - I want to fix it, to make their life as easy as mine. I don't see the point of cleaning a wound while there's still a shard of glass embedded in it.





> *5) What tends to weigh on your decisions? (Do you think about people, pro-cons, how you feel about it, etc.)*
> *I try to find the perfect solution.* I like to think I base my decisions purely on logic but logically the impact on the people involved is often a big factor so maybe it's not logic at all.





> *6) When working on a project what is normally your emphasis? Do you like to have control of the outcome?*
> My emphasis is firmly on the creation. *I jump straight in at the implimentation phase* attacking the hardest parts first. Only if I get stuck will I write out a plan for that specific part, or talk about it to someone (them knowing what I'm talking about is optional - in the course of explaining the problem it usually clicks) before going back to doing. *Once I've worked out how it could work I could drop it* but if completion is required I'll finish it to a working state, but *things like making it pretty and writing documentation are too dull so I leave them to someone else if at all possible.*
> 
> The only exception that comes to mind was when doing presentations - I'm a good proof reader so once someone else had made the pretty slides *I'd much rather do the final checks myself than trust someone else to.*





> *7) Describe us a time where you had a lot of fun. How is your memory of it? *
> *Possibly the hardest question on here? Fun is a strange concept, I'd suggest I'm having fun whenever I'm immersed in something. This could be while on a long walk or soldering a DIY electronics project. I feel most alive and invigorated when I'm reminded that I have a physical body such as when stood on a windy hilltop or walking on snow and ice, constantly adjusting so as not to slip. Specific memories of "fun" are hard to come by so I'll just say they're vague.*





> *8) When you want to learn something new, what feels more natural for you? (Are you more prone to be hands on, to theorize, to memorize, etc)*
> *Hands on all the way. Learning how to do something from a book/website is pointless, watching someone else do it can be useful but only once I've actually done it myself has it any chance of sticking.
> 
> Usually I'll remember something for a couple of weeks having done it once but I'll still check I'm doing it right, then after the second or third time (once I'm sure of the required outcome) I start experimenting to refine my own method, which will include theorising. If my method doesn't come off I have the one I was taught to fall back on when the deadline nears.*





> *I'm a skeptic - every idea is flawed until proven otherwise. I run simulations in my head of possible scenarios and when I think I have something not covered I ask the "inventor" to explain how it's covered. Until it makes sense to me and I can see it covers all eventualities I'm not going to accept it, no explanation is better than a flawed one as the flawed one might be missing something fundamental.*





> I've covered my inadequacy with people's emotional issues above so even if I do notice someone looking left out (highly unlikely, either I'll be immersed in a conversation or off in my own little world) I do nothing about it and *I'm not a group person.* At the gym despite having talked to a couple of regulars I still wear headphones all the time, I don't join in their near constant chatter.
> 
> *At the same time I don't really have strong opinions and beliefs about most things because if I've not directly experienced something it's impossible to have an opinion on it.* I tend to adopt the opinions of whoever I've been talking to most recently and argue those when the topic comes up elsewhere. * If I have no opinion I'm not averse to playing devils advocate to see how good my "opponents" argument is.*





> *When it comes to talking about an idea I have to have a good grasp of what I'm going to say before I open my mouth.* If I forget about this (and it does happen) I quickly contradict myself, get called on it, then stop talking because I can't be bothered to explain the contradictions which require explaining "me" not the topic at hand, which will still be being churned over in my mind.





> Do you prefer one-on-one communication or group discussions?[/b]
> In a way I dislike trying to communicate as I have a deep dislike for words - they're so limited. *In a group I usually sit back listening to the opinions of everyone else and have to be asked directly to give any input *while in a one-on-one situation it's never me who starts a conversation. I do not undersand the idea of an uncomfortable silence - if I can't be silent with someone I don't allow myself to get in a stiruation where it could happen.
> 
> *If I'm left alone with a friend's friend chances are silence will follow, I'll just check out mentally and ignore them.* Somehow I still don't leave a bad impression.





> *I like to know vaguely what's ahead but not specifics.* "We're going out on Saturday night" is enough, no need to say where or what time, and I don't care who else is going.





> *I feel the need to make a distinction between liking someone, disliking them, and just not caring either way. Most people fit into the last category because on meeting someone the conversation is usually shallow and credibility cannot be established meaning the only thing to go on is appearances (both physical and the persona they choose to present). Harsh as it sounds I don't need lots of friends so I'm not inclined to get to know people enough to promote them to the "like" category.*
> 
> *People can be disliked though, all they have to do is lie* (white lies to keep people happy excluded) without good explanation at any point. *They'd never know the difference from how I treat them but I don't forget.*





> *Anything that's not forced into my immediate awareness had may as well not exist. When walking/driving I'm completely aware of my surroundings *- as long as they move. The white cat sitting in the middle of the road? Didn't see it...
> 
> Thinking longer term *I don't like starting big things without knowing they will bring lasting satisfaction so I avoid thinking of the future - who knows what it might bring, no point trying to prepare.* I don't do saving because I could get hit by a bus tomorrow.
> 
> *I've never taken much interest in what's going on beyond "my little bubble"* so I tend to learn about natural disasters and the like days after the event when I overhear someone talking about them. I wouldn't want to know anyway - there's nothing I can do and being reminded of that is not pleasant.


That's a long list. I think you should seriously consider ISTP as your type.

P.S. I also think you're a 9, not a 5...just saying. 
P.S.S. @Mr.Nickster Don't sell yourself short! You did just fine.


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## suicidal_orange (May 6, 2010)

@Mr.Nickster and @madhatter thanks :happy:

It's great that I wrote while thinking myself probably an ISTP comes off as ISTP, but what do you make of this post from June 2010, especially the bold part? It still puzzles me but for months I hated my job because of the impersonalness of it.



asmit127 said:


> It's been suggested my thread on amnesia causing lack of motivation that my obsession with working out me is very INFP. I've been fairly happy as an INTP for 8 months, but am not 100% sure (which itself is a common INTP trait) and have allowed the side of me reflected by this label to be expressed, even exaggerated, in many of my posts so they probably won't be much use in typing me.
> 
> *Recent events seem to support the idea I'm F - I left a job in payroll helping people over the phone pretty much all day everyday for one in a team which is more technical with no people to help. I'm a technical person so this should be ideal, yet it isn't. I'm bothered by the lack of thanks and the warm glow that comes from helping people and it's been just 3 days. *
> 
> This morning as a self-test (not really a necessity) I was intentionally nasty to someone (it was kinda deserved, but a little sugar coating wouldn't have changed the outcome) which I never thought would be a problem but I feel terrible about it. Usually I'm very much a "say it as I see it" person but looking back rarely have I actually encountered someone I didn't like so I'm always nice which wouldn't present a problem. I'd suggest the only two people that I don't like are gay which is something that violates my worldview (though I'd not have said that was the reason for my dislike in either case) but I never did anything to let them know how I felt, there was no need to so why hurt them? I'm also highly against smoking, tattoos, piercings and even hairdye as they (to me) are ways of self harming and are un-natural. There is very little (if any?) logic behind this view yet it's very much a part of me. I also share the near universal INFP view towards sex (that is, I'm 25 and still waiting for someone I connect with - one night stands just could not be meaningful) where INTP's are generally virgins because they see no point in love.


As to Enneagram I'll probably have to revisit, as an ISFJ (a people oriented type) the 5 explained some things but if that's wrong they may be explained elsewhere. I don't know which I disliked more between 9 and 5 come the end so don't think I'm a 5 because it's a cool type or anything!


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## MCRTS (Jul 4, 2011)

@asmit127, 

Hey, having trouble typing yourself? I'm kinda in the same boat. :/ Wanna hop over to my thread to help me out?


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## madhatter (May 30, 2010)

asmit127 said:


> It's great that I wrote while thinking myself probably an ISTP comes off as ISTP, but what do you make of this post from June 2010, especially the bold part? It still puzzles me but for months I hated my job because of the impersonalness of it.


You want your job/life to have purpose. That's great...but I wouldn't exclude ISTP because of it. 



> It's been suggested my thread on amnesia causing lack of motivation that *my obsession with working out me is very INFP.*


I don't think that trying to "work out you" is exclusively INFP. There are many types on this forum that are obsessed with this stuff. I guess the motivation behind the obsession would clue you into what perspective or lens you're coming from, which is what cognitive functions are all about. 



> I was intentionally nasty to someone (it was kinda deserved, but a little sugar coating wouldn't have changed the outcome) which I never thought would be a problem *but I feel terrible about it.*


This is called having a conscience. 



> I also share the near universal INFP view towards sex (that is, I'm 25 and still waiting for someone I connect with - one night stands just could not be meaningful)


This could stem from a number of things, not exclusive from type. It could be your sx that wants the true intimacy and connection. It could also be just having standards. I'm almost 24, and I've never had sex. Oh and I don't like smoking, tattoos, or piercings either, and I'm not INFP. :wink: I think a lot of that stuff is extra-typological. 



> As to Enneagram I'll probably have to revisit, as an ISFJ (a people oriented type) the 5 explained some things but if that's wrong they may be explained elsewhere. I don't know which I disliked more between 9 and 5 come the end so don't think I'm a 5 because it's a cool type or anything!


I may have a bias here, being 9 myself, but I suggested 9 because of some of the things you said, like avoiding unpleasantness (as in the news), which I do as well, or being laid back or seeing no point in getting angry. In fact, if you are 9, you're probably 9w1.


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## luemb (Dec 21, 2010)

I would also add that he might have a bit of 2 in him, perhaps a 9-5-2 tritype? That may also explain some of the desire to help other people.


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## suicidal_orange (May 6, 2010)

@madhatter Linking to a post that old was probably a bad idea, I knew practically nothing back then but your interpretation is interesting. 

As you said there are many potential reasons for everything but (assuming typology to be valid) _everything_ is coloured by type because everything passes through your brain which works in a certain way. Fe is responsible for connecting based on shared values but used negatively it would be reason for disconnection based on conflicting ones and it's weak in an ISTP along with Ni which deals with likely possibilities based on immediate reality (Se). My reaction to tattoos et al could easily have been "That is weird, I wouldn't do it, people who do it aren't like me, I don't like it". 

I don't know about you but at the time I wrote that post I'd never encountered a serious tattoo and/or piercing enthusiast and had never talked to anyone with crazy hair - that's why I felt my opinions were illogical, rather than thinking the lack of logic was in my choice of beliefs (virtually all beliefs are illogical). I have since encountered all of the above and now rather than feeling disgust I just wonder why people choose to do these things. There is no pattern between what people do to their body and anything else, at least that I've observed.

Similarly though these things make a bold physical statement as Se doms are said to like while my mum who raised me is very conservative. Thus my strong (yet not normal overly common) Fe values could easily have these things pre-judged as bad, but as it's not my dominant function I don't trust the judgment and call it illogical aided by an over reliance on teriary Ti.



listentothemountains said:


> I can see the Ti and Ni now. The Ti wants everything clear and precise, but the Ni causes a lot of definitional freedom.


I'm having similar thoughts about how you can 'see' this. Am I a Ti dom adapting my natural quest for clarity having experienced frustration and seen little point fitting in due to inferior Fe or have I been a crazy Ni dom being oblivious to the examples of normality which would have helped me express myself, which is improving as I grow in to tertiary Ti :laughing:

Is this the same style of thinking that leaves you 'unknown' between INTJ and ISFP?

Thanks to both of you for your time, I'm going to take a break to live some more and see what comes up :happy:


As another random thought, I noticed while walking home yesterday that my 'quotes' are now in single apostrophes while in the OP and everywhere before they were double. I have subconsciously adjusted to be 'normal' compared to the posters in this thread :shocked: (I didn't talk in text to anyone else during this period)


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