# Who Am I? 24601!



## AdInfinitum

Yeah, I give tainted self running shoes to @hoopla, she really has an almost perfect grasp of concepts in terms of the functions she masters. If there is anyone who can run thoughts around Si with her Ne, it is always her. Enjoy the shoes and do not clean them, they are afraid of water. 

Coming to a second ground, I can confirm that in essence, you develop the other functions you do not naturally understand through age, a Ne user (dom/aux) will start becoming slightly more organized, I have often found myself rummaging my black hat while thinking or not always throwing everything around as layers of forgotten hearts but it did come with age. Also, I am almost never sure on my Si impression but I keep exercising it so that it gives a poetical sense to everything interpreted through Ne. 

Anyway, you do strike me enormously as an ESFJ, I have found that a creative way of discovering the realms of your functions is always peeking at the stranger behind the corner in order to check his eyes, meaning that your stress periods create this distorted version of yourself and your functions tend to switch around, playful games of the mind. This article is a fantastic way of unveiling the potential of inferior functions if you are interested into meeting a second you: Inferior Function. (If you are an ESFJ yours should be Ti). It is always the hidden pieces that give the best vision of the true internalization and sometimes externalization.


----------



## Telepathis Goosus

Oswin said:


> Thank you for your help!
> 
> 
> *
> 1.) Do your thoughts focus on the world around you, or more-so yourself and people close to you?*
> 
> I'm not really sure. :/ Maybe more on me and the people close to me. I can be rather clannish in some respect. I can be really self-absorbed; it's something I have to work on.
> 
> *2.) How much alone time do you need, and why?*
> 
> Here's why this question is difficult to answer for me: I'm currently (kinda) unemployed, not attending classes, not seeing my friends, or any people except for some elderly Alzheimer's patients I work with (nothing fancy, just helping with some basic tasks, etc); I have more alone time than anyone could possibly ever need, so it's difficult to judge...I know I need some alone time, and particularly privacy (what I really hate is feeling like I'm always being watched (not in a paranoid way); I need time to be 'off-guard'), at least every day, but if I'm alone for more than, say, four hours, I start to get testy and restless.
> 
> *3.) Do you care more about people or about your interests?
> *
> 
> I hope I care more about people. I don't know if that translates into reality. I feel like, a lot of the time, people _are_ my interests, sometimes I just feel inconvenienced by them and wish they would go away so I can do things on my own terms.
> 
> *4.) Do you like to be looked at?*
> 
> Kinda, yeah. I mean, lately I've been pretty overweight, and there's something weird going on with my hair, and stuff, so I've not been liking it so much, but generally speaking I like feeling that people are looking at me and thinking about me. I like being judged, and criticized (honestly), and I generally want to express my thoughts (though I'm shy so it doesn't always happen). I like being 'onstage'. But I don't like feeling constantly watched. There's a song on one of the CDs I have on, and one line is, "But nothing's all right; they're always watching me" which I feel like I relate to. Sometimes I would like to find a nice underground palace and live in my little dream-world, Phantom of the Opera style, safe from the garish light of day.
> 
> *5.) How social are you, in general. *
> 
> Moderately! I've never been any sort of social butterfly, I'm too shy and awkward, although I can talk glibly to strangers if the situation calls for it. I can hold my own in conversation, and if the conversation is good, I want it to never end. I'm the most awkward with people who I consider my superiors, who I'm meant to converse with as equals (my colleagues or cousins who are much older than me) for instance.
> 
> *6.) In essence, do you get your energy from being with people or being alone?*
> 
> I like being alone and long periods of alone time either result in my being amazingly productive or a worthless sloth. I do enjoy being alone and I guess I feel more comfortable alone. But I really like spending time with people. I never feel really 'tired out' from social interaction, if anything it makes me want more. I've never been at a party I thought ran too long; if I'm out with friends I'm always hoping we'll stay out longer. I feel most like a real person in a crowd of people, or out doing something with friends. So I would have to say with other people, although I often feel uncomfortable in these situations.
> 
> Sorry if my answers ran too long!


Hmmmmmm. This is interesting.


I'm getting a lot of Fe in your answers...I see a lot of both Ne and Si in them as well. (The Si would account for why you want to feel truly alone at times.) I don't know how other's came up with xNFP, it doesn't seem like you. I'm thinking ESFJ, but still not sure.

Some more questions:
1.) How easily influenced are you by other people and their opinions?
2.) How good are you at your surroundings?
3.) Do you believe you have a warped perception of reality?
4.) You obviously seem like a feeling dominant, so your te or ti would be very weak. However, I'll ask this anyway: What's more important when dealing with science: Seeing it happen in the real world, or for it to make sense?
5.) Would you sacrifice your own interests for somebody else in order to maintain harmony, or do you stay true to yourself at all costs?

(P.S., I forgot to mention, the Les Miserables quote is perfect. I love Les Mis so much ^^)


----------



## Dangerose

Living dead said:


> Well I guess shy ESFJ it is then
> 
> Btw what happened to your enneagram thread?


http://personalitycafe.com/whats-my-enneagram-type/500594-whats-my-enneagram.html Not all that much) here it is)
4 seems to be the thing that makes most sense (I don't know if I really feel it fits me, something about the description annoys me) so I've been saying 4w5 (or 4w3, I don't remember). I've really no clue what it is though. ESFJ 4 seems unlikely.


----------



## Dangerose

TelepathicGoose said:


> ..


Some more questions:
*1.) How easily influenced are you by other people and their opinions?*
I don't know. I mean, ok, if I'm watching a movie I love with some people and they are making fun of it or something...that'll bother me a little, and I'll probably pretend I think it's dumb too, I'll want to conform to those opinions.
But on bigger issues, moral issues or something...if my opinion goes against the opinion of the group, I feel almost obligated to say what I think. I don't change it or really soften it. I'm constantly posting like my commentary on sensitive social issues on Facebook even though I know only like 2 of my friends agree with me. They then lambaste me, this makes me feel like a terrible person, but the next time I see something I want to weigh in on...I weigh in, it doesn't seem to affect me that other people will take it negatively or even offensively. I feel the need to defend things I believe in, even if it's definitely not going to help anything. I can sometimes state my views rather harshly, often unintentionally. I remember once I posted something about some issue, everyone was attacking me saying it was offensive and hateful, then someone came on and said _the exact same thing_ in slightly different phrasing and everyone was like, "Ah, see, this person gets it, if you'd said _this_ we could have taken you seriously". So in that respect I am rather clueless as to what will offend and what will not.

*2.) How good are you at your surroundings?*

Pretty bad. I just like impaled my thumb because I was distracted by a bird when I was chopping some carrots. Once I walked through Munich with my hand like covered in blood (I guess the same thing had happened). I thought people were looking at me funny because I looked good or something until I noticed the blood  My mother is always calling me out for being unobservant.
*
3.) Do you believe you have a warped perception of reality?*

No. I do tend to see things through rose-coloured glasses but it's better than seeing things through puce-colored glasses, and that's really how the world is for me.

*4.) You obviously seem like a feeling dominant, so your te or ti would be very weak. However, I'll ask this anyway: What's more important when dealing with science: Seeing it happen in the real world, or for it to make sense?*


I prefer theory for sure. I don't really like science at all, I don't have a problem with it or anything, but it's just like...ok, do your science thing. I have enjoyed physics, and some other things that were much more mathematically based than getting your hands dirty and looking at really long strings of decimal points and messy numbers.

*5.) Would you sacrifice your own interests for somebody else in order to maintain harmony, or do you stay true to yourself at all costs?*
I guess one area I'm unsure about Fe is that I'm not really sure what is meant by 'mantain harmony'. I _never_ think, "Oh, let me strive to mantain harmony in this group". Nor am I sure about 'staying true to myself', to me it feels like, by nature of my doing something, I am staying true to myself. Fi is kind-of a 'Don't Cry for Me Argentina' thing, isn't it? "All you will see is a girl you once knew
Although she's dressed up to the nines." I guess I get that. I'll also go wildly out of my way to avoid an awkward situation. So I don't know.


----------



## Immolate

Oswin said:


> Some more questions:
> *
> 1.) How easily influenced are you by other people and their opinions?*
> I don't know. I mean, ok, if I'm watching a movie I love with some people and they are making fun of it or something...that'll bother me a little, and I'll probably pretend I think it's dumb too, I'll want to conform to those opinions.
> But on bigger issues, moral issues or something...if my opinion goes against the opinion of the group, I feel almost obligated to say what I think. I don't change it or really soften it. I'm constantly posting like my commentary on sensitive social issues on Facebook even though I know only like 2 of my friends agree with me. They then lambaste me, this makes me feel like a terrible person, but the next time I see something I want to weigh in on...I weigh in, it doesn't seem to affect me that other people will take it negatively or even offensively. I feel the need to defend things I believe in, even if it's definitely not going to help anything. I can sometimes state my views rather harshly, often unintentionally. I remember once I posted something about some issue, everyone was attacking me saying it was offensive and hateful, then someone came on and said _the exact same thing_ in slightly different phrasing and everyone was like, "Ah, see, this person gets it, if you'd said _this_ we could have taken you seriously". So in that respect I am rather clueless as to what will offend and what will not.


Is this Fi? ...Fe working with something else? Because I see Fi.

*awaits clarification for both Oswin and herself*


----------



## Pressed Flowers

shinynotshiny said:


> Is this Fi? ...Fe working with something else? Because I see Fi.
> 
> *awaits clarification for both Oswin and herself*


I relate a lot to what she first said. I also get strong opinions about movies and such, but like... like okay, I went to go see TheHunger Games premiere with my friend and her mom. Later we were in their car and my friend and her mom were bouncing back and forth about how inaccurate the movie was, how it didn't hit them... etc. Meanwhile, I was sitting there in the back of the car listening quietly, disagreeing... because to me, it was a great movie! No, it missed some things, but those were irrelevant. "They can't make a second movie if they don't mention the lost hearing and crippled leg..." okay but they actually did and duh they figured out how they would fix it before the dropped it. Oh my gosh. 
And yet I didn't say anything. Because hey, why disrupt the harmony? Not worth it. Let them have their bad opinions. 

However, the second part... Oh no, I could never do that. I can do it on Tumblr, sure, because everyone has radical so ail opinions on Tumblr. But on Facebook? Where my dad would get offended? Where my family would get offended and label me a crazed liberal? Oh no no no. I can't do that. Even on Tumblr, more than anything I care about anti-ableism social justice, but I hardly post that because I know most my followers don't give a crap about that. 

But then again, my ISFJ best friend _loves_ to post controversial articles she agrees with. I don't think Se gets in many fights over them, but she isn't afraid to stand up for what she believes is right. 

So... I dunno. That still sounds pretty Fe to me, but... I don't know.


----------



## Immolate

alittlebear said:


> So... I dunno. That still sounds pretty Fe to me, but... I don't know.


Sounds like Fi to me. I often do the same :tongue:

But I'm in no way suggesting Fe can't do the same.

She also said she can't always gauge how people will react to what she says.



> I remember once I posted something about some issue, everyone was attacking me saying it was offensive and hateful, then someone came on and said _the exact same thing_ in slightly different phrasing and everyone was like, "Ah, see, this person gets it, if you'd said _this_ we could have taken you seriously". So in that respect I am rather clueless as to what will offend and what will not.


In this case, at least, she's more in tune with her feelings than the group's feelings.


----------



## Dangerose

I don't know if this'll help clear up the feeling/thinking axes at all, but I was thinking how my brother and mother often seem to consider me very selfish, which I am, but interestingly for probably different reasons. (I think they are INTJ and ESTJ respectively but I'm not sure)

Like...so today my mother was lending me her car, and we went to the store, and I was talking about how frustrated I was being stuck at home all day, that I had wasted the whole day watching things on Netflix and looking at the Internet, and she said like, "And I guess that's all my fault?" and I said no, it was pretty much my fault, but that it was a side effect of being stuck in one house all day, and she was like, "Well, what do you want me to do about it?" and I said, "Nothing, you're already bringing me the car, I'm just saying that I wasted the whole day" and she said, "Yes, and it's a favor, so I don't need to hear sh*t about it". 

Actually, I'm really confused about what happened, so this is not a great example. But it makes me sad because...honestly, I don't feel like I'm doing something wrong...but I feel like I'm doing something wrong! The whole dynamic with my mother is constantly that...she feels that she's doing all these favors for me, so every time I ask her to do something for or with me, it's like I'm somehow preying on her. She has clung onto the introvert description and is often telling me about how I am draining her energy, and how I should respect that, which I should of course, but since I literally live in the same house as her it seems we should be connecting. 

Now partially perhaps the problem is that I am 20 years old and still living at home, which is admittedly pretty lame, but right now there is no other option for me because my job does not pay well enough for me to be self-sufficient (and it's really close to home and it does not make much financial sense to get an apartment right next to my parent's house). And I want to save money so that when I do move out I will have a better safety net.

Anyways, my mother and brother are fairly vocal with the opinion that everything would be better if I had a full-time job and lived somewhere else, and they make plenty of allusions that I should be trying to find/make a new family...but that is probably a different issue) 

Interestingly, my dad and I actually get along a lot worse, we fight more often, etc. But he sides me with these issues, he doesn't see why I should be suddenly moving out, he doesn't understand what my mom means by my selfish behavior any more than I do. 

Ok, I think I got distracted, the point is, bro and mother consider me very selfish. I feel like every time I express a desire, or say something about myself, or want to turn up the volume on the TV, it's another great example of my selfishness. But it's not clear for me what that really is, which is probably why I'm not explaining it well.

Anyways, I think either Fe or Fi is involved. I feel like Fi is often kinda selfish without realizing it (I have an INFP friend who can be so at least) but I'm pretty sure my mother and brother are Fi users so maybe it's a Fe-Fi disconnect.

I should say, I think I'm selfish in a lot of ways, just I'm always shocked and surprised when I hear what they consider my selfish behavior. So...I don't know. Anyone think anything?


----------



## Dangerose

I should be clear, I'm honestly a terrible person; I have not illusions. I'm really not the easiest person to get along with. I'm a much better person on my own, and from a distance. I don't really think I want to get married unless I improve, because I'm kinda one of those people who seems ok and nice and not problematic or anything, but then the closer you are to me, the more of a horrible parasite I become. To me, that is not Fe. If it is Fe, it is weirdly diseased Fe. But I feel like it could be only mildly diseased Fi. If that makes sense


----------



## Pressed Flowers

Oswin said:


> I should be clear, I'm honestly a terrible person; I have not illusions. I'm really not the easiest person to get along with. I'm a much better person on my own, and from a distance. I don't really think I want to get married unless I improve, because I'm kinda one of those people who seems ok and nice and not problematic or anything, but then the closer you are to me, the more of a horrible parasite I become. To me, that is not Fe. If it is Fe, it is weirdly diseased Fe. But I feel like it could be only mildly diseased Fi. If that makes sense


_Oswin. _ I have seen enough of you to know without a doubt that you are not a bad person, and far from even bordering on bad person territory. I'm sure you have flaws, many of which you are right that we do not directly encounter here, but you have a beautiful, shining, compassionate spirit nonetheless. You aren't perfect, and I'm sure you're not selfless all the time... but none of us are. If we all were defined solely by our faults we would all be bad people  But we aren't, and just even from what you've shown and just... You are so far from being a bad person, Oswin. Like, I know I can't convince you otherwise on a forum topic, but... I don't know. Just know that I don't think anyone here would ever have any reasoning to think of you as a bad person, even with you bei so open about your not so nice qualities. 

To;dr you're wonderful and a good person at least to me


----------



## Dangerose

alittlebear said:


> _Oswin. _ I have seen enough of you to know without a doubt that you are not a bad person, and far from even bordering on bad person territory. I'm sure you have flaws, many of which you are right that we do not directly encounter here, but you have a beautiful, shining, compassionate spirit nonetheless. You aren't perfect, and I'm sure you're not selfless all the time... but none of us are. If we all were defined solely by our faults we would all be bad people  But we aren't, and just even from what you've shown and just... You are so far from being a bad person, Oswin. Like, I know I can't convince you otherwise on a forum topic, but... I don't know. Just know that I don't think anyone here would ever have any reasoning to think of you as a bad person, even with you bei so open about your not so nice qualities.
> 
> To;dr you're wonderful and a good person at least to me


Aww, thank you <3 You are very kind))


----------



## pivot_turn

Oswin said:


> http://personalitycafe.com/whats-my-enneagram-type/500594-whats-my-enneagram.html Not all that much) here it is)
> 4 seems to be the thing that makes most sense (I don't know if I really feel it fits me, something about the description annoys me) so I've been saying 4w5 (or 4w3, I don't remember). I've really no clue what it is though. ESFJ 4 seems unlikely.


Timeless' descriptions of the enneagram types in their forums, includes a little bit about each MBTI type as that enneagram type. This is what it says for ESFJ and 4:



> Extroverted Feeling Types (ENFJ, ESFJ)
> Extroverted Feeling refers to an awareness of the emotions or hidden beliefs of another, but does not necessarily imply that an Fe-dominant person must bend to those emotions.
> ExFJs will naturally feel a connection to other people, and when this is combined with their Type Four tendencies, they can experience an unusual tension where they are fundamentally disconnected from others but in touch with the desires (unspoken or not) of others. They may have a deep sense of caring about others, but ultimately, they fear that they will never truly achieve unity with anyone else.


I'm not sure if that's really close to things you've said here, but I get the feeling that that could point to a sort of confusion between Fe and Fi, so that even if you were Fe dom you might sound Fi at times because of 4. And that has been a theme in this thread. I'm not an expert, but that's how I could imagine it going. And I know that confusion, just the other way around. I've been confused between Fi and Fe too, but Fi really most probably being what's my strong point. But I identify with the social instinct in enneagram, which sounds a lot more Fe, and of the types with 3, 9 and 7 mostly, of which especially the two first could easily sound more stereotypically Fe (and 7 maybe not specifically either). But in the end the type systems talk about different things, so they can be quite different and end up in a bit confusion.


Edit: Oh and I agree with alittlebear. You seem like a nice person. That (apart from Les Mis) is what brings me here.


----------



## Dangerose

pivot_turn said:


> I'm not sure if that's really close to things you've said here, but I get the feeling that that could point to a sort of confusion between Fe and Fi, so that even if you were Fe dom you might sound Fi at times because of 4. And that has been a theme in this thread. I'm not an expert, but that's how I could imagine it going. And I know that confusion, just the other way around. I've been confused between Fi and Fe too, but Fi really most probably being what's my strong point. But I identify with the social instinct in enneagram, which sounds a lot more Fe, and of the types with 3, 9 and 7 mostly, of which especially the two first could easily sound more stereotypically Fe (and 7 maybe not specifically either). But in the end the type systems talk about different things, so they can be quite different and end up in a bit confusion.


Yeah, that could actually make sense. I'll have to ruminate on it, but you could on to something) Thanks)



> Edit: Oh and I agree with alittlebear. You seem like a nice person. That (apart from Les Mis) is what brings me here.


 Thank you))


----------



## Telepathis Goosus

@Oswin

Part of the problem with the Fx types is the misunderstanding and belief that Fi types are unaware of other's emotions. Fi users are not _unaware _of others emotions, we just don't always cave into them. Pretty much any type that has Fx in their first two functions is capable of strong empathy. 

Another notion is that any type with both an intuitive and a feeling function in their first two functions (i.e.: NF's) have good social/relational intelligence. What I mean is, any NF types are very good at seeing how people truly feel, their underlying emotions, and the meanings behind people's actions. SF's can do this too, but at a smaller extent.

The main difference is that:
Fe is mostly concerned with the values of the outside world (i.e. extroversion)
Fi is mostly concerned with the values of the self (i.e. introvertsion)

Of course, you being a type 4 could skew up any Fe you have. One of my older brothers is (I believe) an INFJ, and also a type 4. He's definitely an INFJ, but can be self-absorbed or self-paranoid at times due to his enneagram. _However, there is no scientific correlation between enneagram and MBTI type, so it may not be good to base you cognitive functions on such._

I don't usually bring up Socionics into this, but I'm trying to decide whether I see more NF or SF in you. A common belief is that there is an interaction and view of sociality in general that is different from SFs and NFs. I won't go into it now but:

When meeting a new person do you:
1.) Tend to see them as an individual with completely new traits and do not put them into mental groups?
2.) Tend to often put people in mental groups (which is often independent of pre-made social groups.)?

This may help you from being mistyped.


----------



## Dangerose

TelepathicGoose said:


> @Oswin
> 
> The main difference is that:
> Fe is mostly concerned with the values of the outside world (i.e. extroversion)
> Fi is mostly concerned with the values of the self (i.e. introvertsion)
> 
> 
> I don't usually bring up Socionics into this, but I'm trying to decide whether I see more NF or SF in you. A common belief is that there is an interaction and view of sociality in general that is different from SFs and NFs. I won't go into it now but:
> 
> When meeting a new person do you:
> 1.) Tend to see them as an individual with completely new traits and do not put them into mental groups?
> 2.) Tend to often put people in mental groups (which is often independent of pre-made social groups.)?
> 
> This may help you from being mistyped.


Socionics is so complicated but interesting -- I'm thinking I'm going to start looking into it.

I'm not entirely sure I understand the question (or sure how to answer); I will just tell you my thought processes when I meet someone new, and I assume you know what to look for. I'm just going to take some acquaintances and recall my thoughts on first meeting them.

(A colleague-sort person at work) Wow, she is very nice! I like her style; she has such a definite way of doing things. She speaks so precisely and seems so tidy; I should try to develop that quality. Hm, she reminds me a bit of Diane from Cheers. I wonder if they share other qualities. Is she pretentious? No, she doesn't seem to be. I wonder if she grew up here; she has some qualities I don't associate with (people in the place I'm from). Seems to have more of an East Coast thing going on. No, she is from here. That surprises me. I wonder what her cultural background is then. I wonder what her MBTI type is. At first I thought she was very Fe but now I'm thinking Te. Her social interaction seems more rehearsed than natural. Although she seems to be in her comfort zone. Actually, she seems to be one of those people who turns everything into their comfort zone. Those people always come off so well but I wonder what it's like inside their heads. Are they comfortable there? It almost seems like everything would be so neat they'd feel awkward and formal there. She's really very nice though. I wish I could be more like her. (etc.)

(Random guy at the computer repair shop) Wow, he is surprisingly good-looking for a computer guy. He seems quite nice, too, I like how he is not spewing out technobabble and making me feel stupid. I really wonder what makes people interested in computers. Does this guy really like it, or did he go through the training for the money? He seems like the kind of guy who'd rather be out in the park playing Frisbee. Huh, I wonder if he has a dog. Or a cat? No, he doesn't seem like a cat person? Wait, are men ever cat people? I guess some are. Maybe he really does like computers. (My friend) does as well; I guess the beauty of the computer is just lost on me. I wonder what it's like working with these other guys. He almost seems like the kind of guy who would act superior towards his chubbier, paler colleagues. I hope he isn't. He at least does very well with the customers. (etc.)

Ok, I can't seem to recall meeting anyone else recently. Looking at this it's probably mental groups? Or?

Thanks again for your help)


----------



## Telepathis Goosus

K


Oswin said:


> Socionics is so complicated but interesting -- I'm thinking I'm going to start looking into it.
> 
> I'm not entirely sure I understand the question (or sure how to answer); I will just tell you my thought processes when I meet someone new, and I assume you know what to look for. I'm just going to take some acquaintances and recall my thoughts on first meeting them.
> 
> (A colleague-sort person at work) Wow, she is very nice! I like her style; she has such a definite way of doing things. She speaks so precisely and seems so tidy; I should try to develop that quality. Hm, she reminds me a bit of Diane from Cheers. I wonder if they share other qualities. Is she pretentious? No, she doesn't seem to be. I wonder if she grew up here; she has some qualities I don't associate with (people in the place I'm from). Seems to have more of an East Coast thing going on. No, she is from here. That surprises me. I wonder what her cultural background is then. I wonder what her MBTI type is. At first I thought she was very Fe but now I'm thinking Te. Her social interaction seems more rehearsed than natural. Although she seems to be in her comfort zone. Actually, she seems to be one of those people who turns everything into their comfort zone. Those people always come off so well but I wonder what it's like inside their heads. Are they comfortable there? It almost seems like everything would be so neat they'd feel awkward and formal there. She's really very nice though. I wish I could be more like her. (etc.)
> 
> (Random guy at the computer repair shop) Wow, he is surprisingly good-looking for a computer guy. He seems quite nice, too, I like how he is not spewing out technobabble and making me feel stupid. I really wonder what makes people interested in computers. Does this guy really like it, or did he go through the training for the money? He seems like the kind of guy who'd rather be out in the park playing Frisbee. Huh, I wonder if he has a dog. Or a cat? No, he doesn't seem like a cat person? Wait, are men ever cat people? I guess some are. Maybe he really does like computers. (My friend) does as well; I guess the beauty of the computer is just lost on me. I wonder what it's like working with these other guys. He almost seems like the kind of guy who would act superior towards his chubbier, paler colleagues. I hope he isn't. He at least does very well with the customers. (etc.)
> 
> Ok, I can't seem to recall meeting anyone else recently. Looking at this it's probably mental groups? Or?
> 
> Thanks again for your help)


Eh, it's hard to tell from this. All I know is that you have VERY strong Si coupled with some Ne. So once again, leads you to either ESFJ or INFP. I'm leaning towards ESFJ right now, but I'm still unsure. I should probably just focus on whether you use Fe or Fi. Oh, and I meant mental groups.

I have a question: what is your opinion on conformity and sameness?

Also, you're welcome. You're very nice and I'm enjoying helping you


----------



## Dangerose

TelepathicGoose said:


> K
> 
> I have a question: what is your opinion on conformity and sameness?
> 
> Also, you're welcome. You're very nice and I'm enjoying helping you


I don't have any strong feelings about it? Like, it's boring if everything is the same, but I don't see being different as any sort of virtue either. It annoys me when people tell me "Be unique!" or "Be yourself!"...like, who else am I going to be?
Do you have a more specific example? I'm having trouble of thinking of anything. :/


----------



## Dangerose

Ok, so I've pretty much settled on (E?)SFJ. I have one final question: anyone think I could be ISFJ? Do I show any Ti (more than Ne?)


----------



## Dangerose

Never mind. I am ESFJ. Basically this was a huge waste of time. I don't know what's wrong with my Fe and why it doesn't act like a normal dominant function but ESFJ is the only thing that really makes sense. *sigh*


----------



## Darkbloom

If it makes sense then perhaps it's true

You wouldn't be the only person with weird dom Fe


----------



## Dangerose

shinynotshiny said:


> Does ESFJ fit better in comparison?


Overall, yes, but I've always felt a little suspicious of the dominant Fe. Especially now considering that we just settled on Fi)) I'm also unsure about the SJ aspect. I think it was in a little bear's thread that there was a discussion of Si having a catalogue of memories. I don't think I'm like that. I'm pretty hit-and-miss as far as what I remember.

I mean, and I'm so . . . impractical. Yesterday I went to the store to buy an electric tea kettle (because my old one had broken because I literally fell onto it). I bought a new skirt, nail polish, a decorative ship, a whole bunch of seeds to plant, and a broom. I have to go buy a tea kettle today since I totally and absolutely forgot. To me that speaks to inferior Si rather than auxiliary. I was the kid in school who labored over making an assignment perfect and then forgot to turn it in. I keep forgetting to turn in the paperwork that gets me my paycheck. Are SJs really capable of this?


----------



## Dangerose

hoopla said:


> If xNFP doesn't resonate with you, why the switch?
> 
> You're definitely an Si-Ne, and it's common for xSFJs to mistype themselves as such due to their Ne and the fact that Si itself is mythological and removed from reality.


Well, I think I use Fi. :/


----------



## Immolate

Oswin said:


> Overall, yes, but I've always felt a little suspicious of the dominant Fe. Especially now considering that we just settled on Fi)) I'm also unsure about the SJ aspect. I think it was in a little bear's thread that there was a discussion of Si having a catalogue of memories. I don't think I'm like that. I'm pretty hit-and-miss as far as what I remember.
> 
> I mean, and I'm so . . . impractical. Yesterday I went to the store to buy an electric tea kettle (because my old one had broken because I literally fell onto it). I bought a new skirt, nail polish, a decorative ship, a whole bunch of seeds to plant, and a broom. I have to go buy a tea kettle today since I totally and absolutely forgot. To me that speaks to inferior Si rather than auxiliary. I was the kid in school who labored over making an assignment perfect and then forgot to turn it in. I keep forgetting to turn in the paperwork that gets me my paycheck. Are SJs really capable of this?



I think you have better Si than that. That was my impression in your first post, anyway. 

Would painstaking attention to detail be a sign of inferior Te?


----------



## Dangerose

I don't know  I'll let you folks fight it out but I have to go to work)


----------



## Pressed Flowers

Oswin said:


> Overall, yes, but I've always felt a little suspicious of the dominant Fe. Especially now considering that we just settled on Fi)) I'm also unsure about the SJ aspect. I think it was in a little bear's thread that there was a discussion of Si having a catalogue of memories. I don't think I'm like that. I'm pretty hit-and-miss as far as what I remember.
> 
> I mean, and I'm so . . . impractical. Yesterday I went to the store to buy an electric tea kettle (because my old one had broken because I literally fell onto it). I bought a new skirt, nail polish, a decorative ship, a whole bunch of seeds to plant, and a broom. I have to go buy a tea kettle today since I totally and absolutely forgot. To me that speaks to inferior Si rather than auxiliary. I was the kid in school who labored over making an assignment perfect and then forgot to turn it in. I keep forgetting to turn in the paperwork that gets me my paycheck. Are SJs really capable of this?


It might be a silly question, but does this resonate with you? 



This video is exactly my Si-dom mom. As we've discussed a little, I go into the store and know what I need, and I don't settle until I get it. I've always used my money very acutely. I can't imagine just going to the store and buying stuff on a whim (not that you did that, I expect you had reasons for your other purposes, but with me I don't experience that temptation to buy items I don't need). 
My SJ famiky members, though? So much crap. When my SP dad and I go into WalMart, we buy our one thing and leave. When we go with my ETJ sister and my ISTJ mom, though... Things get out of hand. I'm talking one hundred dollars spent every visit, and each time it's three hours long. (In our defense, we don't go shopping much anymore, but... Still.) 

What I'm trying to say is that I don't think your shopping experience demonstrates your being an NP necessarily. It could, I'm sure NPs would do the same, but my ISFJ aunt, my ESFJ aunt, and my ISTJ mother are prone to very similar behaviors.

Edit: also, my mom does spontaneous crap all the time. This weekend I got home and the first thing she declared was "I'm going to be cleaning the carpet of the entire house this weekend." "Why?" I asked. She had never showed interest in cleaning our carpet so thoroughly before (or at least not in the past year). Sometimes it takes forever for her to make a decision like that, and we have to plan in advance. "Well, I just thought it was time," she explained. She got halfway through upstairs and was then distracted by another project... and also, sleep. She made us adjust everything around her cleaning the carpet - we removed things from upstairs - and then she... didn't go through with it. She got onto another project. 

SJs have Ne too. The worst thing is, they have more of a tendency towards immature or unhealthy Ne... which means they can do stereotypically Ne behaviors that aren't really effective, like be especially forgetful or do everything but what they need to. 

(This is based on personal experience though. I've seen SJs do this, but I'm not sure how concrete my cognitive argument here is.)


----------



## Immolate

Inferior Te in the INFP/ISFP, taken from this thread.



> *Inferior Thinking* often comes out in an unrelenting search for accuracy—in a precise, nitpicky logic and focus, and an almost legalistic standard of validity. One INFP said,“I home in on precise logic and truth and am very critical, detailed, picky, frustrated, and irritable. I’m nitpicky and see only what is in front of me.” An ISFP said, “I’m in a bad mood and show it. I cut myself off and am critical, judgmental, bitchy; I am not accepting, happy, optimistic, nice, or understanding. Usually, I am friendly and always have time for people.When I’m tired and vulnerable, I can get into this state by remembering some incredibly dumb thing I did—an embarrassing moment. Or somebody else’s incompetence that reflects on my own will set me off.”


----------



## Pressed Flowers

Also @Oswin I don't even watch Doctor Who, but wow, that quote in your signature makes me want to cry a little.


----------



## Darkbloom

Agree with @alittlebear,SJ's can be more Ne than NP's sometimes,my NFP mother is more likely to go into Te mode when shopping to the point of that Te being too much,and she sometimes gets so annoyed she can't find the exact thing or the store is badly organized that she simply leaves XD


----------



## Immolate

alittlebear said:


> Also @_Oswin_ I don't even watch Doctor Who, but wow, that quote in your signature makes me want to cry a little.


----------



## Persephone Soul

Hi, @alittlebear ! I was laughing so hard at this video! It is me in every way, so I am interested in what Oswin will say. I have a feeling she is going to resonate indefinitely! So far, reading through all these pages, I don't think I have EVER met anyway who talks, think and acts like me haha! @Oswin , I swear we were separated at birth! Anyway, @alittlebear , isn't this video more of a Se thing? Si I thought is super frugal and Se is, well...not. lol 

I can not wait to see what you end up settling on, Oswin! Seriously! I am going through pretty much the same issue over on my thread (although there isn't as much interaction  ) lol but I have been stuck between xSFJ and xNFP for some time now, and I still am confused. I am ALSO an Enneagram 4 (4,6,8 - The Truth Teller). So many parallels, so I SOOO GET YOUR CONFUSION!

If and ONLY when yall have helped Oswin first ( I dont wanna steal her helpers lol) I would love for some help! Everyone come join me and dissect me, after Oswin is content and nailed down. I wish I could help, Oswin... I am just in the same boat. Good luck!!!!! ^_^

here is the link, and @TelepathicGoose , I loved your questions.... Thanks everyone in advance, but again...make sure Oswin is helped first. Yayyy 
http://personalitycafe.com/whats-my...confusion-out-all-typists-i-summons-thee.html


----------



## Pressed Flowers

shinynotshiny said:


>


Do you get pleasure from making people sob


----------



## Immolate

alittlebear said:


> This video is exactly my Si-dom mom. As we've discussed a little, I go into the store and know what I need, and I don't settle until I get it. I've always used my money very acutely. I can't imagine just going to the store and buying stuff on a whim (not that you did that, I expect you had reasons for your other purposes, but with me I don't experience that temptation to buy items I don't need).
> 
> My SJ famiky members, though? So much crap. When my SP dad and I go into WalMart, we buy our one thing and leave. When we go with my ETJ sister and my ISTJ mom, though... Things get out of hand. I'm talking one hundred dollars spent every visit, and each time it's three hours long. (In our defense, we don't go shopping much anymore, but... Still.)


I wouldn't call this typical behavior for an ISTJ.


----------



## Immolate

alittlebear said:


> Do you get pleasure from making people sob


Absolutely.


----------



## Pressed Flowers

SugarPlum said:


> Hi, @alittlebear ! I was laughing so hard at this video! It is me in every way, so I am interested in what Oswin will say. I have a feeling she is going to resonate indefinitely! So far, reading through all these pages, I don't think I have EVER met anyway who talks, think and acts like me haha! @Oswin , I swear we were separated at birth! Anyway, @alittlebear , isn't this video more of a Se thing? Si I thought is super frugal and Se is, well...not. lol
> 
> I can not wait to see what you end up settling on, Oswin! Seriously! I am going through pretty much the same issue over on my thread (although there isn't as much interaction  ) lol but I have been stuck between xSFJ and xNFP for some time now, and I still am confused. I am ALSO an Enneagram 4 (4,6,8 - The Truth Teller). So many parallels, so I SOOO GET YOUR CONFUSION!
> 
> If and ONLY when yall have helped Oswin first ( I dont wanna steal her helpers lol) I would love for some help! Everyone come join me and dissect me, after Oswin is content and nailed down. I wish I could help, Oswin... I am just in the same boat. Good luck!!!!! ^_^
> 
> here is the link, and @TelepathicGoose , I loved your questions.... Thanks everyone in advance, but again...make sure Oswin is helped first. Yayyy
> http://personalitycafe.com/whats-my...confusion-out-all-typists-i-summons-thee.html


Definitely not Se, no  I mean I could be wrong, but I think it shows Ne usage. I mean, okay. I have an Se-dom cousin who is in Junior high. She is extravagant. She buys stuff, yes, and in some ways she can seem materialistic (and she actually stole something of value from us this weekend, but that's a different story), but she doesn't buy a bunch of frivolous things. She doesn't have collections or anything. The thing she stole from us she stole because it was useful, like directly useful. I think that's Se/Ni. Her shopping thing is she makes expensive purchases. She bought an 80 dollar bra with her Christmas money because she decided in the long run (Ni) it was the best purchase to make, and plus it was pretty and she wanted it (Se). She also recently bought some 100 dollar pairs of shoes, which she explained were purchased because she thought they were the best option in the long run (budding Ni). 

As an NJ, I hear about these purchases and silently go "why get a bra that expensive though? There are bras under ten dollars at Walmart that do the same job just fine." And as for the shoes, I can understand expensive shoe purchases, but her shoes were too flashy for me. I would spend the same 80 dollars on a choice selection of 12 different books. We're on opposite ends decision wise. But we still make a few select purchases and aren't tempted to buy a thousand items as our SJ famiky members are.


----------



## Pressed Flowers

shinynotshiny said:


> I wouldn't call this typical behavior for an ISTJ.


Not to be rude regarding her, but she really isn't a healthy person.

Also like, she doesn't do the stuff where she avoids people or thinks about her friends when at the store and stuff, but somehow a variety of different items unrelated to our purpose for being there always end up in our cart. (And I mean, they are useful - she'll remember that oh, the dog needs more treats, didn't your sister need more toothpaste, and then like one extraneous purchase like "oh we're in the cereal aisle, go pick out one you like - but at the same time it's so much more than I know what I would be getting if I was sent to the store alone with the same mission.)


----------



## Immolate

alittlebear said:


> Not to be rude regarding her, but she really isn't a healthy person.


Ah. I didn't mean to imply anything. I imagined lists in my mind.


----------



## Pressed Flowers

shinynotshiny said:


> Ah. I didn't mean to imply anything. I imagined lists in my mind.


Oh no, it's fine. I was the one who said that. She definitely makes lists too - which perplexes me a little, because I don't need lists, I just keep track in my head of what I need and don't write it down, we judge each other on how we remember things and it's actually a point of conflict for us, but regardless, she makes lists - but she also goes above and beyond the list. We get what we need usually, but we also get a ton of other crap too.


----------



## Darkbloom

shinynotshiny said:


> I wouldn't call this typical behavior for an ISTJ.


But it can be.

My grandpa is a xSTJ and he gets such crazy ideas sometimes when his Fi and Ne start working too much.Like,he literally gets himself in life threatening situations,once he fell when returning from a store because he walked for an hour(and he can barely walk at all,and he doesn't see well) but he just had to go to buy Christmas presents,he couldn't just give us some money or at least go to the nearest store,he had to go to bigger store to have more options to choose from.

And my NFP mom,she's so ISTJ sometimes that when she took the test she scored INTJ(N because really,her Ne can't not be there no matter what,it's always obvious she's a NFP deep down) 
She can get very,very STJ in behavior,I even considered it as her type when I knew less about MBTI but then I realised that's insane because her Te and Si are definitely her lowest functions and Ne is undeniably at least aux

And my dad,INTP,there were times he acted very SFJ,now he admits he was actually a lot like my mom's ESFJ mother(although he tried to be the opposite).Of course,he was still an INTP,using primarily Ti but it was mixed with too much bad Fe and even though he actively tried to be anti-Fe dom parent,I picked up on his Fe-ness and was aware of things he didn't even know existed.

The point is,people "aren't being themselves" sometimes  (but they actually are)


----------



## Immolate

alittlebear said:


> Oh no, it's fine. I was the one who said that. She definitely makes lists too - which perplexes me a little, because I don't need lists, I just keep track in my head of what I need and don't write it down, we judge each other on how we remember things and it's actually a point of conflict for us, but regardless, she makes lists - but she also goes above and beyond the list. We get what we need usually, but we also get a ton of other crap too.


I like making the occasional list if I need specific items in specific amounts, like when baking a cake. Sometimes the list is more about organization or prioritizing rather than memory. Maybe it can be like that for her, too?


----------



## Pressed Flowers

shinynotshiny said:


> I like making the occasional list if I need specific items in specific amounts, like when baking a cake. Sometimes the list is more about organization or prioritizing rather than memory. Maybe it can be like that for her, too?


Maybe? For her I think it could be she just wants to make sure she knows what to get? I don't know how her mind is organized but she won't remember it offhandedly if you say you're out of toilet paper or something, she needs it written down and put in the appropriate place to recall it properly.


----------



## Immolate

Living dead said:


> But it can be.
> 
> My grandpa is a xSTJ and he gets such crazy ideas sometimes when his Fi and Ne start working too much.Like,he literally gets himself in life threatening situations,once he fell when returning from a store because he walked for an hour(and he can barely walk at all,and he doesn't see well) but he just had to go to buy Christmas presents,he couldn't just give us some money or at least go to the nearest store,he had to go to bigger store to have more options to choose from.
> 
> And my NFP mom,she's so ISTJ sometimes that when she took the test she scored INTJ(N because really,her Ne can't not be there no matter what,it's always obvious she's a NFP deep down)
> She can get very,very STJ in behavior,I even considered it as her type when I knew less about MBTI but then I realited that's insane because her Te and Si are definitely her lowest functions and Ne is undeniably at least aux
> 
> And my dad,INTP,there were times he acted very SFJ,how he admits he was actually a lot like my mom's ESFJ mother(although he tried to be the opposite).Of course,he was still an INTP,using primarily Ti but it was mixed with too much bad Fe and even though he actively tried to be anti-Fe dom parent,I picked up on his Fe-ness and was aware of things he didn't even know existed.
> 
> *The point is,people "aren't being themselves" sometimes * (but they actually are)


True, which is where "typical" comes in 

I wouldn't say the average ISTJ behaves this way, although they can certainly have their moments just like anyone else.


----------



## Immolate

alittlebear said:


> Maybe? For her I think it could be she just wants to make sure she knows what to get? I don't know how her mind is organized but she won't remember it offhandedly if you say you're out of toilet paper or something, she needs it written down and put in the appropriate place to recall it properly.


Could be. If she's ISTJ, it goes to show how Si isn't amazing with memory, which is how some people describe it.


----------



## Darkbloom

shinynotshiny said:


> True, which is where "typical" comes in
> 
> I wouldn't say the average ISTJ behaves this way, although they can certainly have their moments just like anyone else.


True 
It's an important thing to consider though,since we all get a bit crazy like that,at least sometimes


----------



## Persephone Soul

alittlebear said:


> Maybe? For her I think it could be she just wants to make sure she knows what to get? I don't know how her mind is organized but she won't remember it offhandedly if you say you're out of toilet paper or something, she needs it written down and put in the appropriate place to recall it properly.


That is me too! I have great memory recall, but my chores/errands for the day ... or my bills and grocery lists, are a MUST. Then when I get to the store, I DO get everything on the list, BUT By the time I get to the checkout I have a a crap-load of random items I sort through. You know that area in the front of the cart, where women typically put their purses (or their small children..or bread...), yeah FILLED to the top with things I collected through my shopping trip. I put it there now. I learned my lesson with just throwing it into the cart lol. Anyway, then the process of elimination begins! Until I narrow it down to the MUST-haves (not needs BTW). I always assumed this was Se in me, but interesting...
@Oswin, what are your shopping trips like?


----------



## To_august

alittlebear said:


> It might be a silly question, but does this resonate with you?
> 
> 
> 
> This video is exactly my Si-dom mom. As we've discussed a little, I go into the store and know what I need, and I don't settle until I get it. I've always used my money very acutely. I can't imagine just going to the store and buying stuff on a whim (not that you did that, I expect you had reasons for your other purposes, but with me I don't experience that temptation to buy items I don't need).
> My SJ famiky members, though? So much crap. When my SP dad and I go into WalMart, we buy our one thing and leave. When we go with my ETJ sister and my ISTJ mom, though... Things get out of hand. I'm talking one hundred dollars spent every visit, and each time it's three hours long. (In our defense, we don't go shopping much anymore, but... Still.)


Erm... Tbh, I don't think this is Si. Not from Si-Te perspective at least.
If anything, this woman reminded me of my xSFP mother with the difference being that my mom is even more enthusiastic about stuff.

I always have a clear idea of what I want to buy before I go the store. If I need a pen, I go and buy a pen. Not pen+shoes+food+magazines+who-knows-what-else but exactly the pen and leave.

I don't do shopping, but when I'm in a store with my mother, it inevitably turns into one. Even if we planned to buy only a baguette, we end up cruising the shop in circles and purchasing all different things: "Oh, look, what a pretty figurines we need to buy one of them. Look, here are shoes! C'mon choose something, your old ones are worn out and that's a rare occasion when I succeeded in dragging you away for shopping. And we'll need this thing too, and this too, and..." *me in pleading tone*: "Mom, please, we already got what we need. Let's just get out of here."

I don't know about other higher Te users, but my Te doesn't understand the appeal of shopping phenomenon. Lol.


----------



## Immolate

To_august said:


> Erm... Tbh, I don't think this is Si. Not from Si-Te perspective at least.
> If anything, this woman reminded me of my xSFP mother with the difference being that my mom is even more enthusiastic about stuff.
> 
> I always have a clear idea of what I want to buy before I go the store. If I need a pen, I go and buy a pen. Not pen+shoes+food+magazines+who-knows-what-else but exactly the pen and leave.
> 
> I don't do shopping, but when I'm in a store with my mother, it inevitably turns into one. Even if we planned to buy only a baguette, we end up cruising the shop in circles and purchasing all different things: "Oh, look, what a pretty figurines we need to buy one of them. Look, here are shoes! C'mon choose something, your old ones are worn out and that's a rare occasion when I succeeded in dragging you away for shopping. And we'll need this thing too, and this too, and..." *me in pleading tone*: "Mom, please, we already got what we need. Let's just get out of here."
> 
> I don't know about other higher Te users, but my Te doesn't understand the appeal of shopping phenomenon. Lol.


I agree.


----------



## Persephone Soul

To_august said:


> Erm... Tbh, I don't think this is Si. Not from Si-Te perspective at least.
> If anything, this woman reminded me of my xSFP mother with the difference being that my mom is even more enthusiastic about stuff.
> 
> I always have a clear idea of what I want to buy before I go the store. If I need a pen, I go and buy a pen. Not pen+shoes+food+magazines+who-knows-what-else but exactly the pen and leave.
> 
> I don't do shopping, but when I'm in a store with my mother, it inevitably turns into one. Even if we planned to buy only a baguette, we end up cruising the shop in circles and purchasing all different things: "Oh, look, what a pretty figurines we need to buy one of them. Look, here are shoes! C'mon choose something, your old ones are worn out and that's a rare occasion when I succeeded in dragging you away for shopping. And we'll need this thing too, and this too, and..." *me in pleading tone*: "Mom, please, we already got what we need. Let's just get out of here."
> 
> I don't know about other higher Te users, but my Te doesn't understand the appeal of shopping phenomenon. Lol.


I am just like your mom then... But the types I'm stuck between are xSFJ and xNFP... So what is that all about?


----------



## To_august

SugarPlum said:


> I am just like your mom then... But the types I'm suck between are xSFJ and xENFP... So what is that all about?


Not Te ego perhaps?:kitteh:
(Ego = Dominant + Auxiliary)


----------



## Pressed Flowers

To_august said:


> Erm... Tbh, I don't think this is Si. Not from Si-Te perspective at least.
> If anything, this woman reminded me of my xSFP mother with the difference being that my mom is even more enthusiastic about stuff.
> 
> I always have a clear idea of what I want to buy before I go the store. If I need a pen, I go and buy a pen. Not pen+shoes+food+magazines+who-knows-what-else but exactly the pen and leave.
> 
> I don't do shopping, but when I'm in a store with my mother, it inevitably turns into one. Even if we planned to buy only a baguette, we end up cruising the shop in circles and purchasing all different things: "Oh, look, what a pretty figurines we need to buy one of them. Look, here are shoes! C'mon choose something, your old ones are worn out and that's a rare occasion when I succeeded in dragging you away for shopping. And we'll need this thing too, and this too, and..." *me in pleading tone*: "Mom, please, we already got what we need. Let's just get out of here."
> 
> I don't know about other higher Te users, but my Te doesn't understand the appeal of shopping phenomenon. Lol.


Could it be a mom thing then? My mom does the same thing, and she's definitely not an ESFP. 

(I mean she isn't exactly like the woman in the video - we ever stop at the dollar section, she doesn't buy stupid stuff with quotes and all - but she does easily get distracted in the store and, as I mentioned, we always buy over one hundred dollars of stuff any time we step into a WalMart.)


----------



## Immolate

alittlebear said:


> Could it be a mom thing then? My mom does the same thing, and she's definitely not an ESFP.
> 
> (I mean she isn't exactly like the woman in the video - we ever stop at the dollar section, she doesn't buy stupid stuff with quotes and all - but she does easily get distracted in the store and, as I mentioned, we always buy over one hundred dollars of stuff any time we step into a WalMart.)


I wouldn't say so. Mothers have their own personalities, too 

My mother is nothing like that. Never has been.


----------



## Pressed Flowers

shinynotshiny said:


> I wouldn't say so. Mothers have their own personalities, too
> 
> My mother is nothing like that. Never has been.


I didn't mean that all moms have the same personality. I was just suggesting that moms could have a tendency to do things like that, get distracted in stores and buy a thousand different things. 

After all, the title of the video I posted is something along the lines of "every woman in target". I mean I'm not like that, but my mom and sister both went "OH MY GOSH THATS ME." (Then again, my mom goes "THATS ME" to everything she sees, but eh. It's true she gets distracted a lot, and somehow we end up buying 12x what they immediately intended to buy.)


----------



## Immolate

alittlebear said:


> I didn't mean that all moms have the same personality. I was just suggesting that moms could have a tendency to do things like that, get distracted in stores and buy a thousand different things.
> 
> After all, the title of the video I posted is something along the lines of "every woman in target". I mean I'm not like that, but my mom and sister both went "OH MY GOSH THATS ME." (Then again, my mom goes "THATS ME" to everything she sees, but eh. It's true she gets distracted a lot, and somehow we end up buying 12x what they immediately intended to buy.)


What does being a mom have to do with that behavior, though?


----------



## Telepathis Goosus

SugarPlum said:


> Hi, @alittlebear ! I was laughing so hard at this video! It is me in every way, so I am interested in what Oswin will say. I have a feeling she is going to resonate indefinitely! So far, reading through all these pages, I don't think I have EVER met anyway who talks, think and acts like me haha! @Oswin , I swear we were separated at birth! Anyway, @alittlebear , isn't this video more of a Se thing? Si I thought is super frugal and Se is, well...not. lol
> 
> I can not wait to see what you end up settling on, Oswin! Seriously! I am going through pretty much the same issue over on my thread (although there isn't as much interaction  ) lol but I have been stuck between xSFJ and xNFP for some time now, and I still am confused. I am ALSO an Enneagram 4 (4,6,8 - The Truth Teller). So many parallels, so I SOOO GET YOUR CONFUSION!
> 
> If and ONLY when yall have helped Oswin first ( I dont wanna steal her helpers lol) I would love for some help! Everyone come join me and dissect me, after Oswin is content and nailed down. I wish I could help, Oswin... I am just in the same boat. Good luck!!!!! ^_^
> 
> here is the link, and @TelepathicGoose , I loved your questions.... Thanks everyone in advance, but again...make sure Oswin is helped first. Yayyy
> http://personalitycafe.com/whats-my...confusion-out-all-typists-i-summons-thee.html


Thank you ^^


----------



## Pressed Flowers

shinynotshiny said:


> What does being a mom have to do with that behavior, though?


It's weird to me because it's sort of obvious what being a mom would have to do with that behavior? My mom has so much to take care of. When she goes in the store, she's reminded of that. She sees something in one aisle and goes, "Oh, Papa's been needing this," carries it around. We come near the school items and my sister and I remember that we never need new notebooks, oh and pens would be nice too, can we get some new pens? And by that time she's remembered that we need to get some more water from my dorm. My sister and I invitably find that we are running to get the shopping cart my mom first declared she didn't need, and we're going through the grocery section of WalMart, getting fresh meat, snacks, and fruit. 

I mean in one way, my mom's totally different from this woman. She seems to be shopping only for herself, and with what seems like a considerable amount of spare change. But I think the struggle of coming out of the store with a lot more than one intended is a common one, particularly (in like my mom's case, and the cases of other moms) when someone has a lot to take care of (like an entire family).


----------



## Pressed Flowers

I mean, I say I'm a frugal shopper but actually I do the same when I'm Christmas shopping or whatever. When I have someone to take care of with my purchases, I can be very frivolous in the stuff I buy for them. The game changes a bit when someone has someone they need to be taking care of.


----------



## Immolate

alittlebear said:


> It's weird to me because it's sort of obvious what being a mom would have to do with that behavior? My mom has so much to take care of. When she goes in the store, she's reminded of that. She sees something in one aisle and goes, "Oh, Papa's been needing this," carries it around. We come near the school items and my sister and I remember that we never need new notebooks, oh and pens would be nice too, can we get some new pens? And by that time she's remembered that we need to get some more water from my dorm. My sister and I invitably find that we are running to get the shopping cart my mom first declared she didn't need, and we're going through the grocery section of WalMart, getting fresh meat, snacks, and fruit.
> 
> I mean in one way, my mom's totally different from this woman. She seems to be shopping only for herself, and with what seems like a considerable amount of spare change. But I think the struggle of coming out of the store with a lot more than one intended is a common one, particularly (in like my mom's case, and the cases of other moms) when someone has a lot to take care of (like an entire family).


I don't see any connection. I might as well argue all mothers are frugal and methodical because that was my experience with my mother growing up (family of four).

To add, she's the eldest of six kids and helped keep the family together when she was young.


----------



## 68097

I go into a store looking for specific things, and if I can't find it, I don't buy anything. I very rarely go in looking for one thing, and walk out with twenty, minus what I went in looking for. That just seems ... disorganized.


----------



## Pressed Flowers

shinynotshiny said:


> I don't see any connection. I might as well argue all mothers are frugal and methodical because that was my experience with my mother growing up (family of four).


I didn't mean to say that *all* mothers are like this, and I'm sorry if I'm coming off as offensive or general. I was just trying to explain that I think there could be a connection because my experience is mothers do a lot for their children, and, like with my mom, when we go to the store we get a lot because we have a lot in our lives that needs to be taken care of. I think a lot of mothers can relate to that (although I am not myself a mother, and I know that it is true that some are like your mother the exact opposite of all that). 

And my mother is frugal as well, but in her own way. Sometimes (I don't get it because it's illogical given other purchases she makes, but) she'll go "no we can't spend two dollars on that do you not know the value of money!" She doesn't buy stuff she doesn't think is useful. We weren't a family that could go to the store and demand to have it and we would get it. (At least, not when I was growing up - I had to save up my money for a month if I wanted a five dollar toy.) She goes above and beyond to buy what she thinks are necessities for the house or for her father though - again, which I personally have seen the mothers in my life doing as well. 

But I apologize for derailing this thread so much. Maybe we should just disregard my post with the video, since we have different theories here about what different types of shopping mean about type? I didn't mean to make this conversation drag on for multiple pages, with very little of it pertaining to Oswin's dilemma.


----------



## Immolate

alittlebear said:


> I didn't mean to say that *all* mothers are like this, and I'm sorry if I'm coming off as offensive or general. I was just trying to explain that I think there could be a connection because my experience is mothers do a lot for their children, and, like with my mom, when we go to the store we get a lot because we have a lot in our lives that needs to be taken care of. I think a lot of mothers can relate to that (although I am not myself a mother, and I know that it is true that some are like your mother the exact opposite of all that).
> 
> And my mother is frugal as well, but in her own way. Sometimes (I don't get it because it's illogical given other purchases she makes, but) she'll go "no we can't spend two dollars on that do you not know the value of money!" She doesn't buy stuff she doesn't think is useful. We weren't a family that could go to the store and demand to have it and we would get it. (At least, not when I was growing up - I had to save up my money for a month if I wanted a five dollar toy.) She goes above and beyond to buy what she thinks are necessities for the house or for her father.


I understand what you're trying to get across, and my point is that I'm more likely to believe a mother's shopping behavior is determined by her personality rather than her identity as a mother.


----------



## Pressed Flowers

shinynotshiny said:


> I understand what you're trying to get across, and my point is that I'm more likely to believe a mother's shopping behavior is determined by her personality rather than her identity as a mother.


That's correct. I shouldn't have argued that, really. I guess I'm just perplexed by this because that would make my mom probably not an Si-dom, and she's _such_ an Si-dom. But eh. I can make a topic about the types of my family members another day.


----------



## Immolate

I am so tired but no longer cranky.

1) Poor maidens

2) Not very Fi

3) Inconclusive

4) Fe

5) Fi

6) Fi

7) How can you have a clear and unclear view of yourself...?

8) Would it bother you to be a black sheep?

9) Fi, but not that strong

10) Seems more personal than Fe/Fi

I'll say Fi because of your previous posts and some of the characters I recognized. (Dean as Fe... lol)


----------



## pivot_turn

To_august said:


> There's a difference though. For one thing why I believe my mom is xSFP is that this way of buying things is not stressful for her by any stretch of imagination. She enjoys choosing things on the fly, enjoys getting hands on and likes the very process of it. It comes natural to her. She does some planning in her own way - "Hmm. We need something for dinner. I'll go to the store and see how it goes", which is drastically different from my - "I will eat salad, so I'll buy A-B-C-D to prepare it".
> 
> Her method is not worse than mine by any means and she doesn't tend to make any stupid purchases. It is, actually, really remarkable how she manages to come across as quite practical person in the end. By the time she reaches the cashier she already changed her mind on stuff she wanted to buy multiple times and returned half of the stuff back on the shelves in order to leave the store with exactly the things she need.


This is just about my method too. I don't usually make shopping lists, but sometimes I do, and then the lists can look about the same as they might look in my head: 
-bread
-tomatoes
-fruit
-milk
-yoghurt
-food
So I have a couple of things in mind that I need and then I have those less specific items, like fruit (whatever looks good once I'm in the store) and food (which means something for lunch, or whatever meal it means at that moment) and I decide more specifically in the store where I get ideas from what I see and see what looks good and fresh. Though I might also do the forgetful thing, but I don't usually buy much unnecessary stuff. Like yesterday I went to the grocery store with pesto sauce as the single item I'd thought of, but I also had the thought that I'll try to remember if there was something else I needed, as I wasn't going from home but on my way home, so I hadn't planned it and checked what else I might need. I forgot the pesto sauce, but bought some other groceries I needed and had something to eat anyway without the pesto too. And there wasn't anything really unnecessary either, but things I would have bought in the next days anyway. 

I actually heard some time ago about a facebook group where they collect shopping lists that they find, and had a look. And I saw that they were sort of laughing at lists with "food" on them. To me "food" on the grocery list makes perfect sense. It reminds you of a meal you're going to prepare and need to buy something for, but you haven't decided on it yet. 

Oh and I'm sorry, getting a bit off topic from Oswin here. But somehow I'd say ENFP for her, thinking that Fi might be aux.


----------



## Pressed Flowers

Are we talking about shopping at Target again 

I'll come back with thoughts on Oswin's feeling soon. But hmm

Also, have you all seen Oswin's videos or no?


----------



## Persephone Soul

Oswin, do you make a judgment , THEN allow further information to build and feed your original judgment? Orrrr do you allow further information in before you make a judgment? 

I would say ENFP (slightly over ESFJ) just by your responses and personality. ... BUT , ENFPs are the PUREST 'perceivers', while ESFJs are the PUREST of 'judgers'. IJs and IPs are a mix of both.


----------



## Pressed Flowers

* *




(Sorry, I quoted this for my own use and I don't know how to quickly delete it on iPad, I'll just spoil it)


Oswin said:


> *1.) Do the ends justify the means? Why or why not?*
> They do not. That is . . . if you are a king, and you know that the only way to save your country is to sacrifice innocent maidens, then you are justified in doing so. So wait -- yes, they do. But the ends do not justify the motivation. If you wanted to sacrifice innocent maidens for fun, but it turned out you inadvertently saved the nation, it's still wrong.
> 
> *2.) Is it easy for you to express your emotions, or is it easier for you to express them in writing?*
> Gosh, I don't know. Most of the time it is inappropriate to show emotion, so I don't, but I wouldn't consider it something I struggle to do. But I don't do it often.
> 
> *3.) Do you feel with your gut or your heart?*
> Both. I tend to feel empathy, pity, any sort of crushing emotion in my gut, but I feel intense pain, heartbreak, and loneliness, in my heart.
> 
> 
> 4.) When you have been experiencing a negative emotion, which sounds more like you?
> * a.) I need help, right away. Any interpersonal help. I will go ask advice from anyone, I just need to sort it out. Find the solution, vent.*
> b.) I do better if I get my mind off of it. I sometimes am stubborn and refuse to talk about my problems, as I prefer to think of other, more pleasant things.
> 
> But I try to be b.), especially when I was younger I would, because I wanted to be some proud, independent, denying-her-own-feelings heroine haha) Now I just try not to annoy people with my problems (and usually fail)
> 
> *5.) Concerning big social movements (like, the civil rights movement), is it more important that the action is done, or that the person attempting the action has their heart in it?*
> If the best you can do is an action, that's good and it leads to the better result. But you should care.
> 
> *6.) Let's say a friend started an opinion, that you honestly disagreed with, how would you respond?*
> 
> A close friend? I would probably then state my opinion and debate it with her.
> I become more debate-y if I'm stressed or upset.
> 
> a.) I would outwardly agree with them, even if I didn't inwardly. It's more important that our relationship is good than me being honest.
> *b.) I would disagree, for the sake of honesty. I know it may hurt our relationship, but they need to know where I stand.*
> c.) I wouldn't say anything, I don't want to lie, but I don't want to make a fuss either. It's better these things are left unsaid.
> d.) I would immediately see their opinion, and my previous opinion would immediately falter.
> 
> 7.) Do you:
> *a.) Get your identity from the world around you; have an unclear sense of self?
> b.) Impose your identity on the world around you; have a very clear sense of self?*
> Both) Sorry) I don't know)
> 
> *
> 8.) Are we all one, or are we all unique?*
> Again...both. Our differences are a little more interesting to think about but we are also all profoundly similar. But I don't really value either 'uniqueness' or 'sameness'.
> 
> 9.) What type of empathizing do you do?
> a.) I take on their emotions as my own. When someone is upset at someone else, I immediately am upset at that person as well.
> *b.) Mirror their emotions. I try to put myself in their shoes and see how I would feel, or relate it to my own experience.*
> I think, but again it's a combination of the two. I'll often feel, viscerally, what the other person is feeling, but it's more that I try to imagine I am them than vice versa. Sometimes I have to work to feel empathy. Like, the woman I care for with Alzheimer's. Sometimes I feel so impatient with her, I have to really work to think what she must be feeling or experiencing the world. If people are experiencing emotion, I begin to automatically empathize though.
> 
> *10.) Tell me one time you were really upset at someone, explain why this happened, how it made you feel, and how you chose to solve it.*
> 
> 
> I . . . can't think of anything. People are always upset at me haha))
> Ok, once I was annoyed at my friend because she was dating a guy who had told her he loved her and was buying her expensive gifts, while she had no feelings for him; she apparently was just 'enjoying the experience'. My other friend and I were trying to convince her to deal with the situation and talk to him but she would not, then in a fit of annoyance or temper I posted something on her Facebook wall; it was an article about shopping and whether it was ethical to borrow something you didn't intend to buy, as an obvious nod at her relationship. Not sure where I was going with that, but I meant it to _sting_ haha)
> My childhood and adolescence was full of temper tantrums; I would scream and yell and get really worked up and break my own stuff. I will get a similar feeling now sometimes; I'll just have so much energy and absolutely nothing to do with it. But my reaction has matured)
> 
> Sorry I took so long to respond to these







Alright, let's see what I can say. Basically I agree with @shinynotshiny I think, but let's see

Also, just a heads up, I also gave my answers in juxtaposition to Oswin's I. The hopes you guys could compare strong Fe with strong whatever she might have. I'll put it under spoiler since it is relevant, but not too relevant. (Don't want another Target fiasco.)


* *




1. Honestly I would find some way not to sacrifice the maidens. (Also, can we have a story where boys are the ones sacrificed? I mean I guess we do that in real life when we go to war, but it's a little funny that maidens are always the ones sacrificed, stereotypically? Sorry, that's unrelated, you were correct in jumping to maidens being sacrificed, but.) 
Like, okay. You know the 9/11 thing where the planes were hijacked, but there was nothing the president could do about it, because we don't negotiate with terrorists or something? That's the moment when I couldn't be a president... like, at all. I couldn't value money over the lives of those people. Of course it's more than that - there would be so many consequences that came with negotiating with terrorists - but in that moment I am sure I would be pitching a fit trying to convince my government to let us do what we could to get those people's lives back. 
Maybe that's an unfair comparison? But it seems sort of relevant to this question. 

2. Wait, are you saying you don't show emotion often, or you don't struggle to show your emotions often? 
This seems a little Fe, but I guess not showing your emotions when it's not appropriate could also be Si? Not sure. 
For me, I... am always, always expressing emotion. Admittedly, a lot of it is superficial. I mean on the inside I'm probably feeling stressed or traumatized or something and on the outside I will listen attentively to someone, reflect their emotions back to them... but regardless, I am showing some emotion. And even when I get _really_ upset, reminded of trauma, I can't reign it in. One girl wrote a very offensive story in my writing class - one that was about someone with PTSD, actually - and I knew it wouldbe inappropriate to tell her off. Part of me wanted to go, "Okay, your story was cute, but do you know that PTSD therapy actually doesn't involve hypnosis? We aren't sobbing our eyes out? And we definitely are not 'crazy'?" I was sort of glaring angrily at all the people who went around the room to say that, yes, this story completely accurately captured the insanity of trauma... and that's when I had to step out of the class, because I was so angry that I knew my presence would stew trouble if I stayed. 
The point here is... When I felt emotion strongly, I couldn't keep it in. It was inappropriate to have the emotion, but I still had it, and had it in excess to the point where I had to leave because I realized I was making people hate me, and I was bringing people down. 
But then again, like, I hide emotion when I'm stressed or whatever by reflecting emotion around me. But I'm still expressing emotion? 
*TL;DR* I think this shows Fi now that I think about it. But if you agree with my above babble, perhaps not. 

3. I don't know the difference between my gut and my heart so really I can't respond. I guess this could be Fi though, since you knew the difference? Hmm. 

4. I agree that this is def Fe. Honestly I can't justify how Fe this is, the Fe here seems to overpower the Fi-like things elsewhere? I'll be interested what @angelcat has to say about this in particular 
But to be honest, I'm a little B here. I hate burdening people with my problems, and I've spent my whole life holding them in really. But when I do talk about my feelings, it helps me so much. I don't NEED to immediately talk to someone about it, but it sure helps me when I am able to. Is it perhaps the same with you? 

5. I find this an odd question. I don't know how I would respond. I guess this seems a little Fe, maybe Te, not sure honestly 

6. This is Fi/Te. 

7. I don't know that I would choose one answer over another here either. Hmm

8. Same here, I would have elaborated more (of course) but that's more or less also what I think. I would be curious to hear an elaboration of this, but don't feel obliged. 

9. I also mirror their emotions, but I don't do it by thinking of myself as them. To me, it's just... natural. They're a person, they're hurting, that makes me sad. Your response seems quite Fi. 

10. I also threw temper tantrums, but for me I got into arguments because I had to stand up for people, and also because my mom just started yelling and yelling and yelling at me and at some point in high school I just stopped taking it. But I mean like I think we've all thrown temper tantrums, and truly blessed is the person who can honestly say they did not. 
The other part of your answer seems... not what I would do. I can't stand being offensive or directly targeting someone, looking down on their behavior, especially public ally like that. But then again, I've never been in that situation you were in so honestly who knows how I would react 

That's about it. As Shiny said, some Fe but mostly Fi


----------



## Immolate

@alittlebear

Regarding answer #2: I don't think it has to do with Si, but that's based on my sketchy understanding of Si.

The reason I said "not very Fi" is because she said she doesn't struggle to show her emotions. She simply doesn't show them often because it would be inappropriate to do so in certain contexts. That's what I understood.

Also, I do relate to feeling something very strongly and needing to back out of a discussion, lecture, etc. I think this has more to do with very personal experiences and how we deal with them or how they affect us.


----------



## Pressed Flowers

shinynotshiny said:


> @alittlebear
> 
> Regarding answer #2: I don't think it has to do with Si, but that's based on my sketchy understanding of Si.
> 
> The reason I said "not very Fi" is because she said she doesn't struggle to show her emotions. She simply doesn't show them often because it would be inappropriate to do so in certain contexts. That's what I understood.
> 
> Also, I do relate to feeling something very strongly and needing to back out of a discussion, lecture, etc. I think this has more to do with very personal experiences and how we deal with them or how they affect us.


Yeah, I was wondering if she meant that she didn't have trouble expressing her emotions or not (the last sentence confused me). I agree that answer shows some Fe, more than Fi would. But then again, aren't ENFPs always said to be expressive? I know @TelepathicGoose describes herself as expressive, and my ENFP friends I know are expressive when they talk. I know on the other hand cognitive wise we are taught Fe shows emotion, Fi doesn't, but... I don't know how strictly that means the plain Fe here and in number four would cancel out the other very Fi things she does.


----------



## Immolate

alittlebear said:


> Yeah, I was wondering if she meant that she didn't have trouble expressing her emotions or not (the last sentence confused me). I agree that answer shows some Fe, more than Fi would. But then again, aren't ENFPs always said to be expressive? I know @_TelepathicGoose_ describes herself as expressive, and my ENFP friends I know are expressive when they talk. I know on the other hand cognitive wise we are taught Fe shows emotion, Fi doesn't, but... I don't know how strictly that means the plain Fe here and in number four would cancel out the other very Fi things she does.


I never mentioned one answer canceling out the other 

It would be hard to argue that someone is purely one function and not the other.


----------



## Telepathis Goosus

alittlebear said:


> Yeah, I was wondering if she meant that she didn't have trouble expressing her emotions or not (the last sentence confused me). I agree that answer shows some Fe, more than Fi would. But then again, aren't ENFPs always said to be expressive? I know @TelepathicGoose describes herself as expressive, and my ENFP friends I know are expressive when they talk. I know on the other hand cognitive wise we are taught Fe shows emotion, Fi doesn't, but... I don't know how strictly that means the plain Fe here and in number four would cancel out the other very Fi things she does.


To note, I'm expressive when I'm in a good mood. When I'm in a bad mood my Fi kicks in and I start acting very monotonous and like a robot, because I'm angry/sad/etc. but I don't want to show it.


----------



## Dangerose

Double post (see next page)

Here, I will link you to my Socionics video here in case anyone wants to watch:





I can always make another one if this is unsatisfactory.


----------



## Dangerose

Regarding expressing emotion and such:
I'm not sure. I think I sorta feel embarrassed by emotion. Like, we were watching Jeopardy the other night, and when one of the contestants lost people in my family were like, "Oh, he looks so disappointed! He looks like he's going to start crying" and I felt so uncomfortable, like, the guy's on national TV, I'm sure he'd love to think that people all over the country are saying this, for me if there's a real person expressing emotion you're more supposed to sorta pretend you can't see. If that makes sense. Like, why not just say, "Wow, he played a good game, I thought he was going to win"

But like, I want to watch the emotional scenes in movies/TV shows in absolute pristine silence to provide maximum suspension of belief and to fully take it in. If ever there's a romantic, or emotional scene in a movie, my dad will suddenly interrupt it to make some dumb joke or completely random comment. For me this is infuriating, it completely breaks the mood.

But I like to express emotion; nay, I need to express emotion, otherwise it'll just get out of control. I am not the type to feel something and pretend it's not there, unless I think there's a good reason not to. Generally only people I trust. What I meant above is like, if it seems like the wrong moment. Like, I go to talk to my mom and she snaps at me . . . wrong moment. Or my friends are having a lighthearted conversation, I don't want to be like, "Well, but I having trouble reconciling my whatever with whatever" and bring the party down. Which will sometimes cause me to vent at inappropriate times or like...on Facebook (I don't know if you can tell, but I'm everyone's _favorite_ Facebook friend)

I think on a daily basis I am expressive though; I am wary to show hope because I don't want to be disappointed, but happiness, excitement, etc. I will show.

I feel like someone said something about this? I don't hate small talk, I like it. I have a friend who's always against people saying 'How are you?' when they don't really care, they're just expecting 'fine, thanks'. But to me, it's important to have that little ritual, "Hey, I care how you are"...and I _do_ care. It's like saying 'I love you' at the end of a conversation. Maybe you weren't feeling waves of love in your heart, but it's a reminder, it's nice, it belongs there.

About the unique vs. sameness...I start getting really annoyed when people are talking about how unique, what individuals we are, like...ok, yeah, we are, do we really need to sing this song so many times? I don't really care about 'being an individual'...I already am an individual, it's like caring about being a human. I don't think we're all the same, but I mean...I like a feeling of togetherness as much as the next man, I do like feeling like part of a group, patriotic songs (not even for my country) make me cry buckets. I don't seek one out over the other really, it just depends on the situation really. We're all the children of God, but He made us all different. There's a scene in the Phantom of the Opera book when Raoul is telling Christine about how Erik has a death's head, how he's ugly, etc. and she says, "Well, and so will you, when you've been dead six months!" or something. 

Would it bother me to be a black sheep? With all those people asking me for wool? Yeah, I don't know. In fifth grade I was really a ridiculous human being (I'd come from a small school in small town) but there was a fly someone killed, I was _sooo_ upset, I took it secretly and made a little funeral box for it, unfortunately someone noticed and they all made fun of me. The teacher took the box and threw it away, and I, like the little Antigone I was, stole it from the trash can and had a little fly funeral. I minded a little, but not much. Now I mind; I was such an embarrassing little child.


----------



## Pressed Flowers

Oswin said:


> Double post (see next page)
> 
> Here, I will link you to my Socionics video here in case anyone wants to watch:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can always make another one if this is unsatisfactory.


Quoting this because I still want to see how people type you based on your videos

Also, what type of person do you want to be? What do you strive for in yourself?


----------



## Dangerose

alittlebear said:


> Also, what type of person do you want to be? What do you strive for in yourself?


Haha I'm constantly making lists ten miles long of everything I want to be) I found the most recent (I think) one, it sounds really, really embarrassing and stupid and pretentious but I am generally just writing them for myself so . . . yeah. And, sorry, super religious (I swear, I'm not a religious nut, I just...ugh)

A sampling (I wrote it as a model to read to inspire me, sorry, this is just how I write to myself, obviously it's an exaggeration):
She approached all things with grace and simplicity, never thinking of herself but as she affected her fellow man. As a noblewoman, dressed in fine clothes and jewels, makes one think of the gay and glittering palaces she inhabits, and the king and all his court, so did she remind onlookers of the one true King and his Court, and turned their hearts to goodness and truth. And at the end of the day this little 'noblewoman' took out her jewels -- that is, her virtues, of which she possessed many -- and polished them, and if she discovered an imperfection in them, worked tirelessly, that her collection might be perfect and impress all with their beauty and splendor.
She was careful in all she did, and did not so much as bite into an apple without thinking first of the Creator of all good things of the earth, and then of the farmer who tilled the soil, and tended the trees carefully, and of the journey the fruit had taken, and finally of the fruit itself, and those who were hungry, so that she did not take the flavor for granted, and it was sweeter and better as a result. She possessed great talent, in music, in language, in art, in dancing . . . but she never used these talents for a mercenary purpose, or to win favor in the eyes of the world, but always only to please God. And she was beautiful, in perfect proportion. She spoke to everyone with sweetness and true compassion, but in such a style as made her partner in conversation feel the cleverer of the two of them. She acted like a sister to everyone, or else a daughter or mother as the case might be, showed everyone respect and thought only how to improve their lives or brighten their moods. Yet she was not entirely impartial. With her truest friends she was endlessly loyal; she would have travelled to the ends of the earth for those who were flowers in the innermost chamber of her heart. "I love you, but not enough to leave you (said Lancelot to Guinevere)." Yet she was always prepared to part from someone, even bid them _adieu_ if they were better without her, yet her friendship would never die but always live and be ready to extend a helping hand. 
(etc. etc. etc.)

Not sure if that's helpful at all haha))


----------



## Dangerose

Come on, guys, we're so close) Am I ENFP, INFP, ESFJ, or something else?)


----------



## Telepathis Goosus

Oswin said:


> Come on, guys, we're so close) Am I ENFP, INFP, ESFJ, or something else?)


Yeah, the same things happening to my enneagram thread. 

Here, let me help you. I'll look through your things and decide for myself what I think you are :kitteh:


----------



## Telepathis Goosus

@Oswin,

I think I know, but...well, I don't exactly.

I just don't see ESFJ. I don't know why, you don't seem like one. 

I have a question, this should be pretty obvious at what I'm getting at: How organized are you, when you're not required to be. In your natural state...?

Edit: That's a shit question, I apologize.

Have you seen this video?


----------



## Persephone Soul

You seem very ENFP but with Fe, to me! Haha 

ENTP? nah, def a feeler, aye? 

To me I see Fe & Ne. Those are the 2 I am getting strongly. So, even though you seem to fit the ENFP description best, cognitively speaking, I would say ESFJ...?


----------



## Dangerose

(Sorry, I have to run, can't watch the video (will in a bit)...)

I'm organized in an aesthetic sense, like, I want everything to look beautiful so I keep it nice looking but so far as practicality, almost not at all. My room varies from beautiful (ish)






to less beautiful








I've considered ENTP (I've even considered INTP) but I don't know if my Ti is so strong. If someone wants to make a case for it, though, I'll consider it. Thanks guys)


----------



## Telepathis Goosus

Oswin said:


> (Sorry, I have to run, can't watch the video (will in a bit)...)
> 
> I'm organized in an aesthetic sense, like, I want everything to look beautiful so I keep it nice looking but so far as practicality, almost not at all. My room varies from beautiful (ish)
> View attachment 311962
> to less beautiful
> View attachment 311970
> 
> 
> I've considered ENTP (I've even considered INTP) but I don't know if my Ti is so strong. If someone wants to make a case for it, though, I'll consider it. Thanks guys)


I would like to add that I really like your sense of style. ^^

Anyway, I've read that ENFPs' Fi tends to look like Fe to the outsider, because they're social extroverts. This is the same for ESFPs. 


Hmm, I have the same problem with organization. I'll organize it and then it becomes crap after 5 minutes.

I don't see ESFJ because I've never seen much Si in you, but what do I know?


----------



## Dangerose

TelepathicGoose said:


> I would like to add that I really like your sense of style. ^^
> 
> Anyway, I've read that ENFPs' Fi tends to look like Fe to the outsider, because they're social extroverts. This is the same for ESFPs.
> 
> 
> Hmm, I have the same problem with organization. I'll organize it and then it becomes crap after 5 minutes.
> 
> I don't see ESFJ because I've never seen much Si in you, but what do I know?


Update: I _have_ watched that video, but honestly it confused the crap out of me. 
I guess it's looking like I _am_ an ENFP) Do I use Te though? Has anyone here noticed any Te usage from me?


----------



## Dangerose

EXTJ: Fi can either say “I’m going to devote my time and energy to causes I feel strongly about” (good) or “I’m going to force my beliefs down other people’s throats” (bad). *I have very occasionally felt like devoting myself to a cause...but I usually don't have too much energy or momentum to care that much. Sometimes I want to force my beliefs down people's throats. *

EXFJ: Ti can either say “I want to analyze this and understand how it works, or how they think, in order to help them and foster my own understanding” (good) *sometimes it happens, I will value understanding and knowledge and try to understand things* or “I am going to be super-critical of everything and everyone, while refusing to analyze my own behavior” (bad)*also happens sometimes, though I think I'm always analytical of my own behavior as well.*. 

ISXJ: Ne can either say “I’m interested in new things, and discussing ideas with others” (good) *often I am, yes*or “I’m going to think of every way possible this could go wrong and freak out about it” (bad)*this doesn't really happen, I usually ignore possible consequences*.

INXJ: Se can either say “I’m going to learn to enjoy the here and now, and try out new things for the experience of them” *I struggle to do this in life*(good) or “I’m going to be reckless and hedonistic” (bad)*of course, it happens*.

ENXP: Si can either say “I’m going to slow down and do more research before starting up projects or stating my opinions” (good) *eh. I don't like research much. I try for it though. * or “I’m going to get paranoid about missing something, and be paralyzed from making decisions out of fear of reliving past failures” (bad) *Missing something? like, ok, when I was au pairing in Munich one of my big fears was like...what if I'm wasting a year of my life? Like, we get 100 pennies, do I really want to spend one of them on Munich? I don't ever feel paralyzed like that though*.

ESXP: Ni can either say, “I’m going to develop a vision for the future, and use it to motivate me to greatness” (good) *rarely* or “I’m so worried about the future that I doubt every decision I make” (bad)*almost never*.

IXTP: Fe can either say, “I’m going to keep the peace, think about what is best for everyone involved, and try not to insult them” *of course, I try*(good) or “I’m going to walk on eggshells and doubt my ability to be nice to people, because I always hurt everyone around me” (bad) *well, that is just life for me though*.

IXFP: Te can either say, “I am going to learn time management, and try to make logical decisions based on the facts” (good) *lol*or “I’m going to become so fixated on order and rules that I forget to have fun” (bad)*never happens*.


----------



## Darkbloom

Oswin said:


> EXTJ: Fi can either say “I’m going to devote my time and energy to causes I feel strongly about” (good) or “I’m going to force my beliefs down other people’s throats” (bad). *I have very occasionally felt like devoting myself to a cause...but I usually don't have too much energy or momentum to care that much. Sometimes I want to force my beliefs down people's throats. *
> 
> EXFJ: Ti can either say “I want to analyze this and understand how it works, or how they think, in order to help them and foster my own understanding” (good) *sometimes it happens, I will value understanding and knowledge and try to understand things* or “I am going to be super-critical of everything and everyone, while refusing to analyze my own behavior” (bad)*also happens sometimes, though I think I'm always analytical of my own behavior as well.*.
> 
> ISXJ: Ne can either say “I’m interested in new things, and discussing ideas with others” (good) *often I am, yes*or “I’m going to think of every way possible this could go wrong and freak out about it” (bad)*this doesn't really happen, I usually ignore possible consequences*.
> 
> INXJ: Se can either say “I’m going to learn to enjoy the here and now, and try out new things for the experience of them” *I struggle to do this in life*(good) or “I’m going to be reckless and hedonistic” (bad)*of course, it happens*.
> 
> ENXP: Si can either say “I’m going to slow down and do more research before starting up projects or stating my opinions” (good) *eh. I don't like research much. I try for it though. * or “I’m going to get paranoid about missing something, and be paralyzed from making decisions out of fear of reliving past failures” (bad) *Missing something? like, ok, when I was au pairing in Munich one of my big fears was like...what if I'm wasting a year of my life? Like, we get 100 pennies, do I really want to spend one of them on Munich? I don't ever feel paralyzed like that though*.
> 
> ESXP: Ni can either say, “I’m going to develop a vision for the future, and use it to motivate me to greatness” (good) *rarely* or “I’m so worried about the future that I doubt every decision I make” (bad)*almost never*.
> 
> IXTP: Fe can either say, “I’m going to keep the peace, think about what is best for everyone involved, and try not to insult them” *of course, I try*(good) or “I’m going to walk on eggshells and doubt my ability to be nice to people, because I always hurt everyone around me” (bad) *well, that is just life for me though*.
> 
> IXFP: Te can either say, “I am going to learn time management, and try to make logical decisions based on the facts” (good) *lol*or “I’m going to become so fixated on order and rules that I forget to have fun” (bad)*never happens*.


*EXTJ: Fi can either say “I’m going to devote my time and energy to causes I feel strongly about” (good) or “I’m going to force my beliefs down other people’s throats” (bad).*No,not really.

*EXFJ: Ti can either say “I want to analyze this and understand how it works, or how they think, in order to help them and foster my own understanding” (good) or “I am going to be super-critical of everything and everyone, while refusing to analyze my own behavior” (bad).**Yes,very much so but I also analyze my behavior and am extremely critical towards myself,EXTREMELY.People often don't see it though

*ISXJ: Ne can either say “I’m interested in new things, and discussing ideas with others” (good) or “I’m going to think of every way possible this could go wrong and freak out about it” (bad).It happens that I panic when it comes to some things but I usually ignore possible consequences too.I "panic" in specific everyday situations,especially when I could embarrass myself but I'm extremely confident and positive when it comes to big,life-changing decisions

INXJ: Se can either say “I’m going to learn to enjoy the here and now, and try out new things for the experience of them” (good) or “I’m going to be reckless and hedonistic” (bad).Not really.Well,I don't actively wanna "try new things" and "live in the moment",sounds silly tbh but I can get "hedonistic".For example I mess up on one thing,somehow fail to control myself and then I feel actual desire to just ruin everything.It happens with food when I'm trying to eat healthier or counting calories,I eat one cookie and have to eat 10 more but not necessarily because it's so good but out of anger at myself.Also with grades when I went to school,one bad grade made everything fall apart.But I don't think that's Se at all.

ENXP: Si can either say “I’m going to slow down and do more research before starting up projects or stating my opinions” (good) or “I’m going to get paranoid about missing something, and be paralyzed from making decisions out of fear of reliving past failures” (bad).A bit,but in a more inferior Ti-ish way?There's no fear of reliving past mistakes at all
I can relate to that "What if I'm wasting a year of my life?",I'm very aware of my time running out and I fear aging even though I haven't even turned 20 and I just feel like from now on everything I do needs to be perfect and my decisions have to be perfect because there is no time for mistakes and "I'll try this,this and maybe this too and see how it goes!   "

ESXP: Ni can either say, “I’m going to develop a vision for the future, and use it to motivate me to greatness” (good) or “I’m so worried about the future that I doubt every decision I make” (bad).Yes to the first

IXTP: Fe can either say, “I’m going to keep the peace, think about what is best for everyone involved, and try not to insult them” (good) or “I’m going to walk on eggshells and doubt my ability to be nice to people, because I always hurt everyone around me” (bad).This is so my INTP dad
Not me at all unless with people I barely know and obsessively want them to like me.

IXFP: Te can either say, “I am going to learn time management, and try to make logical decisions based on the facts” (good) or “I’m going to become so fixated on order and rules that I forget to have fun” (bad).Can't even imagine people like that existing XD*


----------



## Immolate

Oswin said:


> Ok, thinking...
> right, so I was in Munich as an au pair. As mentioned, I was lonesome, unhappy, homesick. The family went on vacation and left me at the house. It was very nice, I started learning Finnish, it was a great week, but then...the kid's uncle came by and knocked on the door early in the morning. I was tired, so I let him in thinking it might be the family. He crashed on the couch and then started making passes at me, and came into my room half-naked. I told him politely to leave the room, got dressed, and went to Augsburg. I came back, hoping he'd be gone. He wasn't. Instead he chose to invite me to dinner while masturbating. I asked him to leave the house and then immediately left for the city centre with just my laptop and rented a hotel room. I had already started to freak out, I just stayed in the hotel room and watched Frasier and A Bit of Fry and Laurie, I communicated with my family, but I had already decided I wanted to leave the country. But I did not want to tell my mother that directly, so instead what I did was I went out to some bars, flirted with some guys, got quite drunk and _then_ told my mother I wanted to leave the country. The next day the family was supposed to get back, but I got up early and took the metro to the town near the airport, rented a hotel room there and . . . I really had no logic. I could not see any solution except 'you need to get a plane ticket home'. Finally I convinced my mother it was a good idea (well, not really but I was acting so irrationally that it scared her), I bought the ticket and came home. I briefly informed the family I was leaving, but I did not stop to get my things, I was too ashamed to see them.
> 
> Or in my last year of high school, I had about 4 AP classes and the school had chosen a new system which meant everyone was overloaded with homework. I was literally staying up to 2 in the morning working and then waking up at 6 to study more. I was on high stress for the first 3 months...and then there was a weekly break and I decided...I just couldn't do it anymore. My mother actually'd wanted me to quit the school like a year ago, so I did it very easily, got a degree online. It turned out to be a bad decision. I was so isolated and bored that I became exceedingly jealous and eventually suicidal...but I got over it.
> 
> When I was much younger, transitioning from an old town to a new, that was bigger and different and such...I think I ended up manifesting symptoms of OCD (though I went to a psychologist and she said I was just making it up). I would feel compelled to touch objects a certain number of times. For instance, I'd see a railing and I'd think 'I will tap that four times' but then my brain would bring it up to 8 times, then 16, then 64...it was really a compulsion, it was weird, but I got over it.
> 
> I'm not actually crazy, those were all extreme examples.


I'm very sorry to hear you had to go through these experiences :/

I don't think you're crazy even with the extreme examples, and I want to thank you for taking the time to write out your response.

I wonder if you relate to any of these descriptions of Te and Si. You might get an idea of where they fall in your stack:

How Te acts in all four positions

How Si acts in all four positions


----------



## Pressed Flowers

Oswin said:


> Ok, thinking...
> right, so I was in Munich as an au pair. As mentioned, I was lonesome, unhappy, homesick. The family went on vacation and left me at the house. It was very nice, I started learning Finnish, it was a great week, but then...the kid's uncle came by and knocked on the door early in the morning. I was tired, so I let him in thinking it might be the family. He crashed on the couch and then started making passes at me, and came into my room half-naked. I told him politely to leave the room, got dressed, and went to Augsburg. I came back, hoping he'd be gone. He wasn't. Instead he chose to invite me to dinner while masturbating. I asked him to leave the house and then immediately left for the city centre with just my laptop and rented a hotel room. I had already started to freak out, I just stayed in the hotel room and watched Frasier and A Bit of Fry and Laurie, I communicated with my family, but I had already decided I wanted to leave the country. But I did not want to tell my mother that directly, so instead what I did was I went out to some bars, flirted with some guys, got quite drunk and _then_ told my mother I wanted to leave the country. The next day the family was supposed to get back, but I got up early and took the metro to the town near the airport, rented a hotel room there and . . . I really had no logic. I could not see any solution except 'you need to get a plane ticket home'. Finally I convinced my mother it was a good idea (well, not really but I was acting so irrationally that it scared her), I bought the ticket and came home. I briefly informed the family I was leaving, but I did not stop to get my things, I was too ashamed to see them.
> 
> Or in my last year of high school, I had about 4 AP classes and the school had chosen a new system which meant everyone was overloaded with homework. I was literally staying up to 2 in the morning working and then waking up at 6 to study more. I was on high stress for the first 3 months...and then there was a weekly break and I decided...I just couldn't do it anymore. My mother actually'd wanted me to quit the school like a year ago, so I did it very easily, got a degree online. It turned out to be a bad decision. I was so isolated and bored that I became exceedingly jealous and eventually suicidal...but I got over it.
> 
> When I was much younger, transitioning from an old town to a new, that was bigger and different and such...I think I ended up manifesting symptoms of OCD (though I went to a psychologist and she said I was just making it up). I would feel compelled to touch objects a certain number of times. For instance, I'd see a railing and I'd think 'I will tap that four times' but then my brain would bring it up to 8 times, then 16, then 64...it was really a compulsion, it was weird, but I got over it.
> 
> I'm not actually crazy, those were all extreme examples.


Even if those weren't extreme examples, they wouldn't make you crazy. People who suffer from OCD and suicidal thoughts aren't crazy, and you were put into a bad situation in the first example. I have no idea how one would possibly expect you to act there. 

I don't know what these things have to say about your cognition, but I'm sorry you had to go through those things.


----------



## Dangerose

shinynotshiny said:


> I'm very sorry to hear you had to go through these experiences :/
> 
> I don't think you're crazy even with the extreme examples, and I want to thank you for taking the time to write out your response.
> 
> I wonder if you relate to any of these descriptions of Te and Si. You might get an idea of where they fall in your stack:
> 
> How Te acts in all four positions
> 
> How Si acts in all four positions





> Tertiary Te (EXFP): Look, I organized all my movies by alphabetical order or time period! My socks are sorted by colors or fabrics. I enjoy having things organized, but have to focus to set up the system. I know this isn’t working right, and I want to fix it. I suspect this project will take me another couple of hours, but I’m going to give myself extra time just in case. Look, either you can prove aliens exist or you can’t, and if you can’t, they probably don’t exist. Let’s talk about this idea to see if it’s even possible, on a factual level. This is why I made my decision. I want to have a plan and follow through with it, but sometimes I forget what time it is or what the steps in the plan were. I probably shouldn’t improvise answers as much.


This sounds a bit like me



> Tertiary Si (INXP): I love to revisit things that have given me joy in the past. Going to the same museums, watching the same favorite old movies, and thinking about an old idea is a lot of fun for me. I’d actually rather go to the tea shop again than try out a new hot spot. I find history interesting. Oh, do you want to know everything I learned about Ancient Egypt / the Klingon Conflict? I have all the details right here! I have a box of Star Wars memorabilia in my closet. Oh, I remember that smell… this tastes like my grandmother’s cookies… no, that’s not how “they’re” is spelled. I like familiar things and when I am upset, they comfort me.


Also sounds like me.

Neither the inferior Te or Si descriptions really sounded like me at all. :/


----------



## Dangerose

This was a double post, but I'm answering more thoroughly here.
Right, so organizing! It's fun and it makes me feel productive while actually I'm just sorting things by color. If I am overloaded with things to do I'll often start 'organizing'. Often it's something Si-ish . . . how can I think in a messy room? I'm one to start cleaning if I have nothing else to do. Often, I think, just because it's busywork.
I always like to think about the past) And be reminded of things and such)


----------



## Dangerose

alittlebear said:


> Even if those weren't extreme examples, they wouldn't make you crazy. People who suffer from OCD and suicidal thoughts aren't crazy, and you were put into a bad situation in the first example. I have no idea how one would possibly expect you to act there.
> 
> I don't know what these things have to say about your cognition, but I'm sorry you had to go through those things.


Sorry, didn't mean to imply that, just...yeah)
I think the pattern there is that I will quickly abandon a situation after a certain amount of resistance. First chance comes along to jump ship and then I do, and at that point my mind is strongly made up.
edit: and I make the decision entirely on my own, whereas in normal life I tend to look to others a good deal for how I make my decisions

I'm not sure how it factors into cognition either; I was hoping you guys would know))


----------



## pivot_turn

How about Ne and Fi in dom and aux positions on the descriptions on the same site? Do you relate more to either in either position? Or did I maybe miss a post where you looked at those already.

I mean here: Funky MBTI in Fiction — Cognitive Functions

I had a look at the functions on that site and actually found it helpful in confirming my type. Though not so much with exact positions, but relating to a function either in more the top or the bottom positions. Like I didn't really relate to ISFP's shadow functions in the dom or aux positions, and that als confirmed Fi over Fe for me. I relate to some Fe stuff, but I would feel fake really trying to be like Fe dom is described, and something about "loving to serve" in the aux position sort of makes me shudder. And lol I'm starting to realize that a friend I've thought might be a somewhat different type than me, is probably also ISFP, because she must so be most Fi from the judging functions and for sure is an S and an introvert. 

Anyway, so if you still have any doubts about Fe vs Fi I would recommend looking at those too there.


----------



## Dangerose

pivot_turn said:


> How about Ne and Fi in dom and aux positions on the descriptions on the same site? Do you relate more to either in either position? Or did I maybe miss a post where you looked at those already.
> 
> I mean here: Funky MBTI in Fiction â€” Cognitive Functions
> 
> I had a look at the functions on that site and actually found it helpful in confirming my type. Though not so much with exact positions, but relating to a function either in more the top or the bottom positions. Like I didn't really relate to ISFP's shadow functions in the dom or aux positions, and that als confirmed Fi over Fe for me. I relate to some Fe stuff, but I would feel fake really trying to be like Fe dom is described, and something about "loving to serve" in the aux position sort of makes me shudder. And lol I'm starting to realize that a friend I've thought might be a somewhat different type than me, is probably also ISFP, because she must so be most Fi from the judging functions and for sure is an S and an introvert.
> 
> Anyway, so if you still have any doubts about Fe vs Fi I would recommend looking at those too there.


Thanks, yeah)
My big caveat with Fi is that I don't really relate to the whole 'authenticity, individuality, staying true to yourself' thing. When people talk about these things I kind-of cringe. I was watching a video about the Ignoring Function in Socionics (if I was Dom-Fe, it would be Fi) and he was saying like, "People will talk about this function and to you it'll just sound like they're making up sh*t" which is kinda how I feel about some Fi things sometimes. That said, the Fe things...sound exhausting. I'll occasionally go out of my way to make sure people are comfortable, but I'm not set to do that all the time, I feel like after some point it's their responsibility to make themselves comfortable. I guess I'm a little confused because while I do think about others and their opinions a good deal, I will rarely, if ever, pretend to make them happier. My best/worst quality is my honesty. Something about Fe sometimes strikes me as dishonest, or if not dishonest, weak. Not that Fi doesn't also strike me as weak with it's 'my soul is a unique and fragile butterfly, do not tear my wings'. So, yeah, I'm super judgy about the judging functions.


----------



## Immolate

Oswin said:


> Thanks, yeah)
> My big caveat with Fi is that I don't really relate to the whole 'authenticity, individuality, staying true to yourself' thing. When people talk about these things I kind-of cringe. I was watching a video about the Ignoring Function in Socionics (if I was Dom-Fe, it would be Fi) and he was saying like, "People will talk about this function and to you it'll just sound like they're making up sh*t" which is kinda how I feel about some Fi things sometimes. That said, the Fe things...sound exhausting. I'll occasionally go out of my way to make sure people are comfortable, but I'm not set to do that all the time, I feel like after some point it's their responsibility to make themselves comfortable. I guess I'm a little confused because while I do think about others and their opinions a good deal, I will rarely, if ever, pretend to make them happier. My best/worst quality is my honesty. Something about Fe sometimes strikes me as dishonest, or if not dishonest, weak. Not that Fi doesn't also strike me as weak with it's 'my soul is a unique and fragile butterfly, do not tear my wings'. So, yeah, I'm super judgy about the judging functions.


Fi isn't about being authentic and unique and special and dainty and afraid of being pulled apart. I lie and fake all the time. Who can honestly go through life without some sort of facade? I don't go around shouting my beliefs and values. In fact, I prefer to keep them to myself, but I know I won't compromise what I believe in just to get on someone's good side. My beliefs and values are my own, I thought about them for years on my own, argued them, debated them, reevaluated them. I won't set them aside for the sake of group hugs or shits and giggles. That's all it really is.


----------



## Dangerose

Ok. Fi it is. How about everyone just votes: ENFP or INFP?)


----------



## Darkbloom

I don't know,but I think you'd know if Fi was your dominant.But ofc,it's not the most accurate method of typing


----------



## Persephone Soul

I still see too much Fe to be ENFP. I do think you're an extrovert. Hold on, i got a thingy for yuh that someone asked me...


----------



## Persephone Soul

Te-Fi believes the world is systematic and should follow the same procedures. While ethics are individual and drawn from each and everyone of us.*

Ti-Fe pairings believe that the world should follow the same ethical principles and we that our community should be responsible for ethical issues. While logic is individual and drawn from inside and ones own frameworks and conclusions.*


----------



## Persephone Soul

Orrr... if you still say Fi/Te, then which resonates noure?

"It feels this is right, because of this, and that, and seemingly this. But this doesn't seem related, and this doesn't even feel authentic, but I've figured out the basic moral compass based on my random connections"

"This might be right, but hey, that doesn't feel right at all, wonder what that is all about. Oh never mind, what about this, this I could fight for, it's in good correlation with my *insert personal belief*."*

The first is Fi Dom with Ne as aux, the latter is Ne as Dom and Fi as aux.


----------



## 68097

Why high Ne?

I'm rather inclined to agree with @hoopla on this one. Reading through your responses / your initial post, I'm not seeing a huge amount of Ne. You read more like an SFJ than an NFP.


----------



## Persephone Soul

I agree with angelcat. I do think SFJ more than NFP, but I personally do see a lot of Ne. Maybe not dom though.


----------



## Darkbloom

I see SFJ functions in ESFJ order,but I'm not 100% sure of dominant Fe,I wouldn't have much problem with it though


----------



## Persephone Soul

Living dead said:


> I see SFJ functions in ESFJ order,but I'm not 100% sure of dominant Fe,I wouldn't have much problem with it though


I think I could agree with that. I see both high Ne and Fe, but having a hard time seeing either or as Dom. Thats all ive got lol


----------



## Immolate

I do believe you have more Si than you give yourself credit for.


----------



## Kurt Wagner

shinynotshiny said:


> Different life experiences, and the impression I've had from this site alone is that people believe Fe is nicer and more rainbow vomit-y than Fi.


I think they do believe that. I've observed the same in real life.


----------



## Immolate

TelepathicGoose said:


> Fi is apparently selfish according to some people on this website. Which is not anywhere _close _to true, it's just self-focused, there's a difference.


Yup


----------



## Darkbloom

Fi is not selfish,Fe is not nice or selfless(so many fictional and real examples) and I wouldn't say it's even people pleasing(it is people focused,but I'd associate traditional people pleasing with Fe aux+enneagram 9 or phobic 6,maybe some 2's)


----------



## Kurt Wagner

Living dead said:


> Fi is not selfish,Fe is not nice or selfless(so many fictional and real examples) and I wouldn't say it's even people pleasing(it is people focused,but I'd associate traditional people pleasing with Fe aux+enneagram 9 or phobic 6,maybe some 2's)


Fe users just sound nicer. Even my stepdad's good-morning sounds friendlier than mine. And he's ISTP. I don't know how you guys do it.


----------



## Telepathis Goosus

Luke Skywalker said:


> Fe users just sound nicer. Even my stepdad's good-morning sounds friendlier than mine. And he's ISTP. I don't know how you guys do it.


I sometimes accidentally hurt my mother's feelings with my honesty. I don't even realize I do it, and it apparently bothers her quite a bit...


----------



## Darkbloom

Luke Skywalker said:


> Fe users just sound nicer. Even my stepdad's good-morning sounds friendlier than mine. And he's ISTP. I don't know how you guys do it.


Idk,but I agree lol,my INTP dad sounds way nicer than an ISFP I know 
But INTP's are in general surprisingly cute and fluffy though


----------



## Kurt Wagner

Living dead said:


> But INTP's are in general surprisingly cute and fluffy though


ISTPs could also easily be mistaken for INFPs.

That if they would just stop fixing cars all the time. :dry:


----------



## Immolate

Luke Skywalker said:


> I think they do believe that. I've observed the same in real life.



Yes. I made that comment in reference to your comment about people expecting rainbow vomit. INFPs can be pretty serious.


----------



## Dangerose

Living dead said:


> At the same time yes,I can get very insecure,very influenced by others opinions,but what I noticed is that I'm very rarely deeply influenced by direct insults,because they either mean nothing (it just doesn't make sense for me to be insulted by them,like "You're dumb" and I think "Ok,and when did I try to impress you or anyone else by being smart?") or are blatant lies I know someone is telling just because they are trying to hurt me.I do react to insults,but not because I'm offended but because I can't just stand there saying nothing,what I say depends on them.
> What _really_ gets to me is no one caring,no one reacting to me at all,no one complimenting me,no one appreciating my efforts,also a big one is being told I "have nothing to offer" when I feel I do but then I start asking myself "Do I really have something to offer or am I fooling myself?",things like that


100% agree on this btw, this is exactly my feelings on the matter)


----------



## Telepathis Goosus

shinynotshiny said:


> Yes. I made that comment in reference to your comment about people expecting rainbow vomit. INFPs can be pretty serious.


Sorry to keep derailing the thread...

I'm a _very_ serious person. I take everything seriously and I constantly think about overly deep and brooding things, sometimes not the best thoughts either. I never laugh anything off, and I have a hard time enjoying myself. I believe I think about the doom of mankind a bit too much...

But outwardly? I act very warm and goofy and quirky. I act like I don't take much too seriously. Which is the exact opposite of how I actually am. I don't know why I do it, why I act so different from how I think. I guess I just don't like bothering others with my problems...Or maybe it's because I'm so disconnected from the physical world, I can go on a mental tangent while only doing the same physical task over and over again.

But yes, for those who think ENFPs are happy-go-lucky and always wanting fun, that is extremely inaccurate.


----------



## Telepathis Goosus

Oswin said:


> 100% agree on this btw, this is exactly my feelings on the matter)


I'm glad you found your type!


----------



## Immolate

TelepathicGoose said:


> I'm glad you found your type!


So ESFJ is finally decided???

*awaits Oswin*


----------



## Dangerose

I think so! *pops champagne*
Merci à tous!


----------



## Persephone Soul

Uhh... just came into the game purdddy darn late here, but... uhh, i am BOTH (surprise surprise lol). I take what people say about me to heart! It CRUSHES me. Its bec i have a very subjective view of myself and see myself a certain way and then others try and come in a crush it to pieces. I have a very very low self esteem bec of my Father. I hear his voice everytime i look in the mirror, go out in public etc. I know half the things people say are untrue, bec i know me. But i do feel the need to at least TRY to get the to see through my lenses. If they dont at the end of the day, i need to try and move on if my heart isnt crushed too badly, but it is hard. it does leave a mark with me for sure. Mostly bec it is so frustrating that they dont see me the way i see myself. They dont see the real me evidently. What they say doesnt match what i feel. This bugs and bothers me.

That prob doesn't help a all, bec we cant figure out if i am fi or fe. so it was kind of irrelevant i guess lol

Carry on...


----------



## Persephone Soul

Oswin said:


> I think so! *pops champagne*
> Merci à tous!



Ohhhh 'ello there! Woo hoo! Yay! "ESFJ IN DA HOWWWSE! WOO WOO WOO WOO!" 

LOL glad you're settled!


----------



## Dangerose

SugarPlum said:


> Uhh... just came into the game purdddy darn late here, but... uhh, i am BOTH (surprise surprise lol). I take what people say about me to heart! It CRUSHES me. Its bec i have a very subjective view of myself and see myself a certain way and then others try and come in a crush it to pieces. I have a very very low self esteem bec of my Father. I hear his voice everytime i look in the mirror, go out in public etc. I know half the things people say are untrue, bec i know me. But i do feel the need to at least TRY to get the to see through my lenses. If they dont at the end of the day, i need to try and move on if my heart isnt crushed too badly, but it is hard. it does leave a mark with me for sure. Mostly bec it is so frustrating that they dont see me the way i see myself. They dont see the real me evidently. What they say doesnt match what i feel. This bugs and bothers me.
> 
> That prob doesn't help a all, bec we cant figure out if i am fi or fe. so it was kind of irrelevant i guess lol
> 
> Carry on...


Is this Fi or Fe, people?
I'm currently thinking Fi. 
(I'm sorry for your low self-confidence. Take heart; God's opinion of you is the only one that matters)


----------



## Pressed Flowers

@Oswin I'm going to respond about _To The Lighthouse_ here...

I actually think it's the opposite of an Ni book! One if my professors told me that Virginia Wolfe wrote it with no plot in mind, just wrote, which I'm not convinced is true but I know as an Ni writer I obviously could never consider that. Also the whole thing with Lily Briscoe and her comment about needing to see something with fifty different eyes to even get a glimpse of it's truth... which is essentially a central theme of the book, what with the jumping around... That's a veryNe idea, I think. Honestly I wanted to roll my eyes so hard when my professor went on and on about how that's just _so true_, no one truth can be the truth... I was just like, lol no, there's only one truth you've got the wrong truth if you think otherwise =D we Ni users are pretentious as can be. 

I'm actually surprised because I was def going to make a TTL reference in typing you the other night, but I didn't expect you'd read it. As I mentioned, I think Mrs. Ramsey is like the quintessential ESFJ, while Lily to me is the embodiment of gentle Fi. Which one did you find yourself relating to, if any? Or which one would you ideally be? (Not to start your typing question again, but I'm curious. While I think I personally come across as a Lily, every ounce of my being wants to fill the role that Mrs. Ramsey did within her family.) 

I want to discuss types though, I'll probably tag you in my type topic or something tomorrow to discuss it, so be prepared!


----------



## Persephone Soul

Oswin said:


> SugarPlum said:
> 
> 
> 
> Uhh... just came into the game purdddy darn late here, but... uhh, i am BOTH (surprise surprise lol). I take what people say about me to heart! It CRUSHES me. Its bec i have a very subjective view of myself and see myself a certain way and then others try and come in a crush it to pieces. I have a very very low self esteem bec of my Father. I hear his voice everytime i look in the mirror, go out in public etc. I know half the things people say are untrue, bec i know me. But i do feel the need to at least TRY to get the to see through my lenses. If they dont at the end of the day, i need to try and move on if my heart isnt crushed too badly, but it is hard. it does leave a mark with me for sure. Mostly bec it is so frustrating that they dont see me the way i see myself. They dont see the real me evidently. What they say doesnt match what i feel. This bugs and bothers me.
> 
> That prob doesn't help a all, bec we cant figure out if i am fi or fe. so it was kind of irrelevant i guess lol
> 
> Carry on...
> 
> 
> 
> Is this Fi or Fe, people?
> I'm currently thinking Fi.
> (I'm sorry for your low self-confidence. Take heart; God's opinion of you is the only one that matters)
Click to expand...

awwww *tear * yes! So true. It is a daily struggle to remind myself of this. No matter how much my husband affirms me, i hear my dad saying otherwise. I guess it is probably more of a mental illness thing rather than cognitive with me. Everyday, i hear his voice. And it does dictate my life a bit. but i think this is one isolated situation that triggers my self esteem when dealing with life in general.

*note to parents* be careful what you say around little ones. It can really take a toll. 

Thank you, my friend! That meant a lot. :')


----------



## Immolate

To_august responded to the pictures you drew. I think her interpretation was interesting


----------



## Dangerose

alittlebear said:


> @Oswin I'm going to respond about _To The Lighthouse_ here...
> 
> I actually think it's the opposite of an Ni book! One if my professors told me that Virginia Wolfe wrote it with no plot in mind, just wrote, which I'm not convinced is true but I know as an Ni writer I obviously could never consider that. Also the whole thing with Lily Briscoe and her comment about needing to see something with fifty different eyes to even get a glimpse of it's truth... which is essentially a central theme of the book, what with the jumping around... That's a veryNe idea, I think. Honestly I wanted to roll my eyes so hard when my professor went on and on about how that's just _so true_, no one truth can be the truth... I was just like, lol no, there's only one truth you've got the wrong truth if you think otherwise =D we Ni users are pretentious as can be.
> 
> I'm actually surprised because I was def going to make a TTL reference in typing you the other night, but I didn't expect you'd read it. As I mentioned, I think Mrs. Ramsey is like the quintessential ESFJ, while Lily to me is the embodiment of gentle Fi. Which one did you find yourself relating to, if any? Or which one would you ideally be? (Not to start your typing question again, but I'm curious. While I think I personally come across as a Lily, every ounce of my being wants to fill the role that Mrs. Ramsey did within her family.)
> 
> I want to discuss types though, I'll probably tag you in my type topic or something tomorrow to discuss it, so be prepared!


I see your point...I'll save my thoughts for that type topic, then))


----------

