# I need examples of Ni and Fi, in action.



## musun69 (Mar 14, 2010)

So...is anyone up for the task?


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## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

I don't know about Fi much personally but there are many threads about Ni in action.


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## musun69 (Mar 14, 2010)

Yeah, thanks...bu I'll wait for someone to post them, because sometimes people get them mixed up.


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## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

If people get the two mixed somewhere else then how would this be any different.

How can anybody confuse Ni with Fi or Fi with Ni?


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## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

Are you trying to figure out if you are an INFJ or an INFP?


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## musun69 (Mar 14, 2010)

myjazz said:


> Are you trying to figure out if you are an INFJ or an INFP?


Well, I've been through that already.
But, I still need conformation.
I guess I just need solid proof, because Ive been through WAY to many types...and I want to put an end to all of this shifting.


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## SarahWilliams (May 5, 2010)

Personal opinion - it's easier to describe INFP vs. INFJ, than Ni and Fi in action. 

I also am unsure how you could confuse them. 

Fi says HOW DO I FEEL. does my current action affect my inner morals? Fi senses emotions but doesn't seek to affect them.

Ni says WHAT DO I THINK ABOUT THE POSSIBILITIES. what is the pattern. what will happen in the future. possibilities that lay out like bricks in a foundation. decisive. enjoys ideas, but seeks to rule out what is impossible even what is improbable.

dunno. that's how i understand it. but like i said, i think 'INFJ vs. INFP' is a easier question.


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## musun69 (Mar 14, 2010)

You could use Ni in combination with Fe, and get Fi.

Thats what I meant.


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## musun69 (Mar 14, 2010)

Well, I just don't want to get repetitive. So thats why I asked that, as well as, they are both the dominant functions of the types.


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## Aleksei (Apr 3, 2010)

You could easily have Ni _and_ Fi (which would net ISFP or INTJ). In fact, if you're unsure there's a good chance you do. INTJs are easily the most emotionally charged of all T types.


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## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

musun69 said:


> You could use Ni in combination with Fe, and get Fi.
> 
> Thats what I meant.


1 +2=3
Ni + Fe= Ni/Fe


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## Apollo Celestio (Mar 10, 2010)

Ni is concerned with theory, what will or what could happen.
Fi is concerned with experience, what I want and how I feel.


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## musun69 (Mar 14, 2010)

Apollo Celestio said:


> Ni is concerned with theory, what will or what could happen.
> Fi is concerned with experience, what I want and how I feel.


I definately use Ni, because that's what Im using when ever I turn the corner and run into a wall. lol
Plus, Im using either Ni, or Fi. But for some reason, Fi, is my shadow function. I don't get it.

And before you ask...yes, I also use Fe.


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## Apollo Celestio (Mar 10, 2010)

There is often overlap in proficiency of the auxiliary from what I've come to notice. It doesn't beat out the main auxiliary, but it's there.


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## Aleksei (Apr 3, 2010)

musun69 said:


> I definately use Ni, because that's what Im using when ever I turn the corner and run into a wall. lol
> Plus, Im using either Ni, or Fi. But for some reason, Fi, is my shadow function. I don't get it.
> 
> And before you ask...yes, I also use Fe.


You can't use both Fi and Fe. They're two different approaches to the exact same set of issues. 

On matters of ethics, feeling, personal beliefs... do you feel pressured to go along with what others feel is right? Or do you feel a strong impulse to go with what _you_ feel is right?


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## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

musun69 said:


> I definately use Ni, because that's what Im using when ever I turn the corner and run into a wall. lol
> Plus, Im using either Ni, or Fi. But for some reason, Fi, is my shadow function. I don't get it.
> 
> And before you ask...yes, I also use Fe.


How about some of your Ni in action examples...


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## Psilocin (Feb 23, 2009)

Fi="How do I feel about this situation?"
Ni="What might be the proponents in this situation?"


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## penchant (Sep 20, 2010)

Did you check INFJ or INFP? a closer look ? Did it help?


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## musun69 (Mar 14, 2010)

Aleksei said:


> You can't use both Fi and Fe. They're two different approaches to the exact same set of issues.
> 
> On matters of ethics, feeling, personal beliefs... do you feel pressured to go along with what others feel is right? Or do you feel a strong impulse to go with what _you_ feel is right?


Both....I feel pressured to whats right, but sometimes, I get lazy and just take the easier road, and do what I want/feel like doing.


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## musun69 (Mar 14, 2010)

penchant said:


> Did you check INFJ or INFP? a closer look ? Did it help?


Yes, Ive checked that, but it doesn't help, and sometimes it seems as if he doesn't even really know what he's saying or talking about.


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## penchant (Sep 20, 2010)

musun69 said:


> Yes, Ive checked that, but it doesn't help, and sometimes it seems as if he doesn't even really know what he's saying or talking about.


I think that it could help us think about your type better if you could refer to some things that you do not agree with, or expand on why you don't find it helpful...


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## Aleksei (Apr 3, 2010)

musun69 said:


> Both....I feel pressured to whats right, but sometimes, I get lazy and just take the easier road, and do what I want/feel like doing.


Do you feel bad when you don't fulfill others expectations of what you should do? Conversely, do you only follow others' expectations to keep the peace and believe your way is the best way?


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## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

Ni can have a tingling sense at times that tells you something is amist. Ni can be like dreams an odd random experience that you have to decipher , best if you trust your self and go with what you know, to understand sometimes it hits you and hits you again sometimes it is subtle sometimes it is like a ton of bricks. Ni access the unconscious part of our brain this is why it is different for some people but has a similarity amongst all Ni users.


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## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

Fe focus its emotions, time, and energy for other people and at times can forget about the persons own feelings by pleasing others and taking in other peoples feelings another words getting lost amongst other people's feelings.


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## Filigeedreamer (Sep 4, 2010)

Filigee to the resque!!!

This confused the heck out of me too, but I think I understand it now. 

If you don't use a function much it's obviousely hard to explain to someone else, and Ni is a tricky customer in general. But I definatly use Fi so I am going to explain it, with actual_ examples_. 

Fi and Ni _are_ similar (hush, let me finish) they are both reflective ways of looking at things, and involve a _sense_ of somthing instead of tangible and exact data. Both can also provide unique insight into situations, and sometimes people. 

If you use Ne and Fi, or Ni and Fe, you can get similar surface results. You empathise and make connections with things, and provide deep insight in both cases. I relate to the discription of INFJ (even though I am ENFP), in part because I am a very good councilour and good at understanding people. You wouldn't go to my INFJ friend for that type of help, a) she's as friendly as a block of ice to 90% of humans, and b) she doesn't understand how people think. She understands how they act, sure, but _not_ motivation. Yet she's seen as a councilor type in MBTI terms as she uses Ni, which provides insight into situations and with stimuli...sometimes that stimuli is people, but not always. 

Fi isn't _just_ self empathy, it's understanding of self, and _applying_ that understanding to others. It's about understanding where other people are coming from, by saying how would I feel _if_... seeing them for what and who they are...understanding their drives, and how to connect with them...even manipulate them (I prefer_ persuade_). 

Ni might give you a sense of a person, but it isn't designed for that task. It's a pretty blunt tool when applied to people, you might decided you like a person or not, or think they are mean and be right...but you don't understand for love nor money what goes on in their heads. 

So my INFJ: I don't like this boy, he is just..I donno, I don't like him. I have this odd feeling about him. It's his voice or something...

Me (ENFP): you don't like him because he sees things differently to you, and he is the sort to over complicate projects, which will stress you out. Plus he can be pushy, and as he gets to know you better he will get pusher, and you suck with conflict, so you will get grumpy and privatly complain a lot, but not face it till it all gets too much. Then you will explode, and I will get a phone call about what a pig he is. Actually, he means well, and wants to do a good job, he doesn't understand why you are so traditional and non abitouse...

INFJ: Yeah...good for him. I don't care, I still don't like him!

Me: well no, you arn't going to...I'm not sure why I even bothered telling you that. 

INFJ: come on, he's anoying! Whoes side are you on?

Me: yours, always yours...*sigh*

INFJ: your _not_ making me feel unreasonable.

Me:..no, you're right, he'll upset you, so I don't like him. 

Does that help at all?


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## musun69 (Mar 14, 2010)

Aleksei said:


> Do you feel bad when you don't fulfill others expectations of what you should do? Conversely, do you only follow others' expectations to keep the peace and believe your way is the best way?


The second option.



Filigeedreamer said:


> Filigee to the resque!!!
> 
> This confused the heck out of me too, but I think I understand it now.
> 
> ...


Yes, it does.
I don't know which words to use to explain it...but definitely helps. 
But does that also mean, that Fi does what Ni do, plus more?
Because I've had the experience of not liking someone from the first time we met...and now that I look back on my decision, Im proud of my self because, if I became friends with him then I probably would have started hanging out with the wrong people.


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## Aleksei (Apr 3, 2010)

musun69 said:


> The second option.


Then you're an Fi type. You're probably INTJ, though possibly INFP or ISFP.


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## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

Aleksei said:


> Then you're an Fi type.


Duh..............


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## OrangeAppled (Jun 26, 2009)

I suspect a lot of people stuck on the Ni/Fi fence think they are INFP or INFJ, but really are ISFP. Just a hunch :tongue:


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## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

OrangeAppled said:


> I suspect a lot of people stuck on the Ni/Fi fence think they are INFP or INFJ, but really are ISFP. Just a hunch :tongue:


I like your hunches.


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## penchant (Sep 20, 2010)

OrangeAppled said:


> I suspect a lot of people stuck on the Ni/Fi fence think they are INFP or INFJ, but really are ISFP. Just a hunch :tongue:


I've had that thought too...


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## Filigeedreamer (Sep 4, 2010)

musun69 said:


> Yes, it does.
> I don't know which words to use to explain it...but definitely helps.
> But does that also mean, that Fi does what Ni do, plus more?
> Because I've had the experience of not liking someone from the first time we met...and now that I look back on my decision, Im proud of my self because, if I became friends with him then I probably would have started hanging out with the wrong people.


No, Fi isn't better than Ni, just a different type of tool. Using Ni to understand yourself or others is a bit like using a hammer to devide up a birthday cake, it _can_ be done, but not with the same dexterity or acuracy as Fi. 

Ni hacks at things, to reduce things down to_ one _truth, eg I don't like this person. But Ni can also say: I don't like this place,I should put this here, I understand this abstract concept. Fi can't do that, I mean it can say, I _feel_ like I do not like this place, or I _feel_ I understand this concept, but it does not _facilitate_ that understanding. It would be like trying to knock a nail into a wall using a knife. 

Ni is inverted Ne...so I can explain it better that way. Ne manually forms conections in data, and tests out different combinations, to raise many new possibilities. 

In my head (when using Ne): Hmmm...what happens if I combined a duck with this washing machine? *click, click, click* wow...that would be messy, now what if I changed the variables? I could combine it with a cat! *click* hmmm...also messy. Yet entertaining....I'd feel bad and probably end up in prison in both cases. I'm going to leave that duck alone. *breaks idea apart, and throws it back into the mental soup from where things colide to help form new ideas.*

Ni starts with all the connections pre-made, in a big ball of knowledge. It then breaks it aparts to clarify and atriculate the wordless understanding it has reached. It leads to a deep and _singular_ clarity. 

So, my friend: *bing! a huge tangled ball of understanding, gradually break it down to one single idea: duck+ Filigee=bad*...don't you touch that duck! 

Filigee: I'm not gonna touch the duck, I'm just feeding it...jeez, what do you think I'm gonna do?

*INFJ glare*

*ENFP puppy eyes* 

INFJ: why don't you go chase that squirrel?

Me:_ squirrel!_

It gets confusing in that Fi, being internal like Ni, can also produce a chunk of data to understand. However Ni is not just about people, but situations, tasks, theories...it is_ not _just a tool for people. If you only remember having this expirence with people, it's unlikly you use Ni as one of your main four functions.


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## Filigeedreamer (Sep 4, 2010)

OrangeAppled said:


> I suspect a lot of people stuck on the Ni/Fi fence think they are INFP or INFJ, but really are ISFP. Just a hunch :tongue:


I don't think everyone who confuses the two is using them both, they might just not understand the definitions without real world examples...or be confused by the emphasis of Ni interaction with people from some Ni users. Plus Ni users are not always great at articulating what Ni is or what it does, as they are using Ni and part of it's nature is a difficulty in articulating the process by which they came to a realisation. Plus, if you lack Fi, you can't go examine your thought processes as easily or always see how best to phrase things so other people understand. It becomes just That Thing you do, you know...the Thing? 

No...I don't know The Thing...give me examples! :laughing:

They can't always do that, in part because they use Ni. (or so I think any who)


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## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

Carl Jung described 8 cognitive functions in which people use.

Definition of cognitive functions | Life as a Project


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## Aleksei (Apr 3, 2010)

OrangeAppled said:


> I suspect a lot of people stuck on the Ni/Fi fence think they are INFP or INFJ, but really are ISFP. Just a hunch :tongue:


Or *INTJ*. I'm of the mind that the majority of self-reported INFJ 4s are actually INTJ, myself.


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## OrangeAppled (Jun 26, 2009)

Aleksei said:


> Or *INTJ*. I'm of the mind that the majority of self-reported INFJ 4s are actually INTJ, myself.


It's possible, if the person feels quite sure of being N. However, many feel sure of being F, and then I'd think ISFP may be the better option.

I don't think it helps that FiNe "mimics" Ni in a way, and NiFe "mimics" Fi. 

Maybe one determining factor is considering where you direct your judgments. INFJs direct judgment outside of themselves & INFPs direct it inwards.

INFJs seem to judge other people & groups first, and then they judge themselves in relation to these. XYZ factor of people/groups is proven to be important and ideal for harmony, so I will find a way to meet that value and promote this ideal within the group.

INFPs judge themselves first, which is a way of forming ideals, they'll also evaluate external concepts to reveal their ideals, and then lastly they judge people and specific groups in relation to the formed ideals. XYZ is important to me & my concept of good, and I will strive to meet that as an individual as my main endeavor to see that concept realized, and I will reject those things/people which do not meet the ideal.

Here you have the INFJ giving unsolicited advice, butting in where not wanted, and the INFP only expressing negative feelings & seeming to be a loner. On a positive note, INFJs will lead a group subtly by directing people towards the ideal (which their Ni may see a better way to meet than the current standards do), and INFPs will lead my example, by embodying the ideal and encouraging others to find their own way to meet these concepts. In that sense, INFPs "inform", by making others aware of a need to begin with.



Jung on Fi manifesting itself negatively said:


> Since it is primarily controlled by subjective preconditions, and is only secondarily concerned with the object, this feeling appears much less upon the surface and is, as a rule, misunderstood. *It is a feeling which apparently depreciates the object; hence it usually becomes noticeable in its negative manifestations.* The existence of a positive feeling can be inferred only indirectly, as it were.





Filigeedreamer said:


> I don't think everyone who confuses the two is using them both, they might just not understand the definitions without real world examples...or be confused by the emphasis of Ni interaction with people from some Ni users. Plus Ni users are not always great at articulating what Ni is or what it does, as they are using Ni and part of it's nature is a difficulty in articulating the process by which they came to a realisation. Plus, if you lack Fi, you can't go examine your thought processes as easily or always see how best to phrase things so other people understand. It becomes just That Thing you do, you know...the Thing?
> 
> No...I don't know The Thing...give me examples! :laughing:
> 
> They can't always do that, in part because they use Ni. (or so I think any who)


Definitely not all are ISFPs or INTJs, but it's something to consider. 

These comments by Jung remind me a bit of what you're saying, as far as Ni people not "examining" themselves as easily as Fi people. It seems their inner world is one of ideas which must be related to something external to be valued or devalued, whereas the inner world of a Fi-dom is one of ideals, or ideas which in themselves are values, as they feel what is "perfect" not what is possible. The Fi-dom needs no external validation, and instead, sees their ideals as validating the external. Ni-doms see no connection of their ideas to themselves, but connect them to something outside of themselves to give them purpose. It's not about what is perfect, but what is possible, and it's only deemed good or bad by an external measure (ie. Fe or Te judgment criteria).

Ni:



Jung on Ni said:


> Consequently, in the above-mentioned example, the introverted intuitive, when affected by the giddiness, *would not imagine that the perceived image might also in some way refer to himself. Naturally, to one who is rationally orientated, such a thing seems almost unthinkable*, but it is none the less a fact, and I have often experienced it in my dealings with this type.
> 
> Accordingly, *the images appear as though detached from the subject, as though existing in themselves without relation to the person* [the Ni-dom].
> 
> ...


Vs. Fi:



Jung on Fi said:


> Its aim is not so much to accommodate to the objective fact as to stand above it, since *its whole unconscious effort is to give reality to the underlying images*. It is, as it were, *continually seeking an image which has no existence in reality, but of which it has had a sort of previous vision. From objects that can never fit in with its aim it seems to glide unheedingly away*. It strives after an inner intensity, to which *at the most, objects contribute only an accessory stimulus.*
> 
> *Continually emancipating itself from the relation to the object, this feeling creates a freedom, both of action and of conscience, that is only answerable to the subject*, and that may even renounce all traditional values


So to summarize that jumble above & wrap it up:

Fi knows what is perfect based on ideals from the unconscious mind that arise as "feelings", and the Pe function sees how to make this a reality. Ne in particular sees many ideas based on what impressions of the external imply is possible for the future. So FiNe sees new ways to meet inner ideals, which promotes inner harmony for themselves & others, and it sees how these ideals are violated.

Ni knows what is possible based on its impressions of subconscious images that arise as "ideas", and these possibilities are related to the external, to determine what they mean, and significance or logical truth is gauged by Je. Fe in particular will evaluate these perceptions based on external standards of good or results which seem to promote harmony. Basically, NiFe sees new ways to create harmony between people, or sees how disharmony can occur.


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## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

I am still leaning towards the S theory with Fi....

And to F-Dreamer Ni dom can explain Ni in a way that Ni is but only those who are Ni users usually understand unless one understands Ni without being a Ni user......


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## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

OrangeAppled said:


> On a positive note, INFJs will lead a group subtly by directing people towards the ideal (which their Ni may see a better way to meet than what the current standards),


I am so liking your word usage...


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## Goaty (Jul 23, 2010)

Here.

And here.

Read those. The top one is an ongoing discussion of the difference between Ni and Ne among the INTJs, while the bottom is the same except about Fi and Fe. Reading up about both attitudes of functions helps siginifcantly with discerning with your preference as it allows you to contrast the one you struggle to understand with its extraverted/introverted "partner", if you will; it definitely helped me.


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## Filigeedreamer (Sep 4, 2010)

myjazz said:


> I am still leaning towards the S theory with Fi....
> 
> And to F-Dreamer Ni dom can explain Ni in a way that Ni is but only those who are Ni users usually understand unless one understands Ni without being a Ni user......


I agree they can explain it to each other, as Ni is always there as a reference. When you say it's That Thing...another Ni dom will go, oh, that? is that what it's called?

However other people who don't use Ni will find it pretty confusing, and might translate the Ni discription incorrectly, so they atribute it to themselves when they don't have it. 

In which case, they will also claim to understand Ni, but that they can't explain it to non Ni users either, because they havn't a clue what it is. 

There is a need to make Ni (or key aspects of it) clear, so such people can tell for certain if they use it or not. It also helps with better understanding of Ni users, and how best to interact with them. 

I don't use Ni often (if at all) so I don't understand it, rather like if you've never riden a bike you can't fully understand the expirence...yet if given basic information about the expirence you can say if you've had it or not, and even partly imagine what it may be like. It can be helpful just knowing it's the oposite of something else you know you do, and this can give a limited amount of insight into that process.


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