# Narcissistic Mother, Enabling Father (Concern from an ENFP)



## superbundle

Links used

Traits of a Narcissistic Mother:Characteristics of Narcissistic Mothers

How to Survive with a Narcissistic Mother:
How to Survive With a Narcissistic Mother - wikiHow

Enabling Father:
Enabling Father - Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers

Where to begin.. (I'm an ENFP, type 3 btw)
I'm a senior in H.S. and I just realized this is a problem I can't control, and no matter how much I want the support, guidence, and love from my parents- I won't be getting it at a deeper level any time soon. 

I'm honestly glad I found enneagram types, because I would've just continued my life, not knowing, and most likely falling back to the belief that something's inherently wrong with me. And I think I've touched parts of narcissism, myself back when I was younger.. I remember adopting the same habits my mom had. But since my Aunt passed away 2 summers ago, I've been ridding myself of them. Yet I was still stressed for some reason I didn't quite understand/acknowledge. 

I still haven't applied to college, and I've been having health problems. I'm trying my best to do what's best for me because I want to be successful. But at the same time all these things.. they're just so much, and I feel-- I guess, lack of support and I.. it's not lack of being motivated.. I guess.. just extremely tired. (So perhaps its all the emotional stress that my health doesn't feel well? That's a possibility)

I just recently realized my ego gets in the way much of the time when I interract with others, so I've been following tips for self growth for Type 3s (and I've actually done a bit of them in the past, so they do actually work, I'm not blindly following them). 

I think I pretty much covered the gist of my situation. 

So now, I'm not really sure what I should do? 
I always feel this lack of.. connection (the only way I know how to explain it is that I'm sx/sp, and that type 3's need support and guidence). And I pretty much.. can't do anything within my power to change how my mom is. I tried, which was ignorant of me. And I don't say that to be pessimistic- because realistically, it really wouldn't happen. But I'm not completely abandoning the idea of helping my mother change- it just has to be her choice. But honestly, it's her problem. 

But what am I supposed to do in the mean time? 

She doesn't have the physically abusive aspect, she's the "engulfing mother" one, and she never takes responsibilitie for her actions. Meh, I don't know. 

I've talked to my social worker about my health problems and how it's affecting my school work. But I haven't mentioned this (I recently realized this). 

Now that I know this, it kind of makes me sick.. that I've been drawn into these touching moments when I've reconciled with my mom, only to have her get all crazy over something trivial the next days. It's crazy. I don't know-- I don't know. 

I'd love to go far away from my home for college (for the sake of experiencing living by myself), but I don't have the money for that. 

Both sides of my family have their own issues. 
There are some cousins I have in mind that I could actually rely on, but I'm not even sure they would understand since they're older than I am and probably think I'm just.. criticizing my parents for the sake of rebellion (because that's exactly what one of my cousins, aunt, and uncle had thought). I don't even want to think of the possibility that they're going to reject what I'm saying because that's just going to frusterate me. 

I don't know, not many people will exactly believe me when I just bluntly state that my mom is narcissistic. I tend to just want to cut to the chase so I could just solve the problem and finally head on to my journey to be successful. 

I don't know- seriously. Any advice?


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## Up and Away

what would your advice be?

i read it..


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## AriesLilith

My mom is the kind of woman that would get very emotionally unstable and even selfish, she would feel entitled to be depressed as she thinks that she has reasons for it (some are legitimate indeed). In the past, she would also say very cruel things, and our relationship was very rocky when I was a teenager. Back then, I even had to be the supporter, when what I could have a good use of was a supportive mother.
But then our relationship got better by time. She made peace with certain major things in her life, and then us not stopping to interact and like each other kept things going better.

But back then, all I did was kind of like surviving, and avoiding conflicts. And then trying to be supportive, even if I didn't agree with her at times. I could choose to break her, be mean and cruel, but what would I achieve anyways? Good thing is that things went well in the end, and now we have a fairly good relationship. Now I can also have her support, and she likes it and I'm happier too.

I'd say if you want to help your mom, then try to figure out why she is like that, if there are underlying problems (not satisfied with her life and so on). Then you can bond with her, try to understand and show empathy to her. This is the first step to make her more receptive of you, coz if you simply start to criticize, then she would take a more defensive stance. Then when your mom feels like you can understand her, you can begin to give some small suggestions, maybe indirect ones.
But in the end, it's really up to her to see things in a more positive and less selfish way. You can be a guide and a supporter, but people has to deal with their issues by themselves.


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## pretense

I feel for you, unfortunately I happen to be an asshole of unworldly magnitude, and therefore am not capable of giving you advice that could be considered by a reasonable person. Yet I can relate to you on a million different levels, so if you are looking for someone to relate to, I'm your guy...


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## AriesLilith

I just wanted to add that one of the things I came to realize, which helped me to make peace with the past, was that I realized how human and humanly imperfect she actually was. She was just someone lost in her own sadness, and desperated about how her life was. Realizing this made me felt empathy towards her, and forgive her.


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## Thalassa

In a couple where one partner is a narcissist, it ultimately requires the other partner to also be a narcissist, so they can have an empty but picture perfect on the outside relationship fraught with a constant sense of longing which culminates in one night stands with other people or them murdering each other or something almost as dramatic....sooo...in the long term, it's really best for the narcissistic partner to have an enabler, or a codependent, or someone who is an "introverted narcissist."

It only stands to follow that your narcissistic mother has an enabling husband, or your parents may have divorced long ago.

As a teen, your best bet is either to go away to college, or get a job and move out. I had a parental figure who had mental issues, and confronting her about it was not an option, and she was later diagnosed and actually court-ordered into psychiatric care by a judge, but I was already well into my twenties at that time, so fat lot of good it did me, other than being reassured I was absolutely right. And so were my friends. And all of my friends parents. And our neighbors. And my other relatives.

The problem with narcissists, though, especially in a culture like the U.S., people may downplay what she's doing that's so abusive because you've been given external trappings of support, usually a lot of financial support, nice clothes, cars, stuff like that, so who are you to complain right? Right. That's how I grew up too. Neither of my guardians were a narcissist, but in the U.S., if you look privileged, you are privileged, because we actually live in a culture that enables narcissism through rewarding external trappings of success and downplaying real internal self-esteem and self-worth.

So tell your social worker, but wait to tell your family and confront your parents AFTER you go away to school or get a job and move out, because I assure you, it's not going to be received well, but it will be a much easier battle to fight as a confident adult living away from your parents.


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## Thalassa

AriesLilith said:


> My mom is the kind of woman that would get very emotionally unstable and even selfish, she would feel entitled to be depressed as she thinks that she has reasons for it (some are legitimate indeed). In the past, she would also say very cruel things, and our relationship was very rocky when I was a teenager. Back then, I even had to be the supporter, when what I could have a good use of was a supportive mother.
> But then our relationship got better by time. She made peace with certain major things in her life, and then us not stopping to interact and like each other kept things going better.
> 
> But back then, all I did was kind of like surviving, and avoiding conflicts. And then trying to be supportive, even if I didn't agree with her at times. I could choose to break her, be mean and cruel, but what would I achieve anyways? Good thing is that things went well in the end, and now we have a fairly good relationship. Now I can also have her support, and she likes it and I'm happier too.
> 
> I'd say if you want to help your mom, then try to figure out why she is like that, if there are underlying problems (not satisfied with her life and so on). Then you can bond with her, try to understand and show empathy to her. This is the first step to make her more receptive of you, coz if you simply start to criticize, then she would take a more defensive stance. Then when your mom feels like you can understand her, you can begin to give some small suggestions, maybe indirect ones.
> But in the end, it's really up to her to see things in a more positive and less selfish way. You can be a guide and a supporter, but people has to deal with their issues by themselves.



Nope. Narcissists EAT empathy.

They'll suck your blood.


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## Thalassa

I mean just as a personal anecdote, I recently told a narcissist who trusted and cared for me (in his way?) that he was a narcissist, and he hates me now. And I've been through a lot with this person. He probably would have forgiven me for TP-ing his house or eating his first born, but calling him a narcissist is what ultimately ended any and all friendship/relationship we may have had.

I could cuss him out, tell him I hated him, blah blah blah...a half an hour or three days later he'd start calmly talking to me, trying desperately to change the subject to something pleasant and neutral, etc. 

But I told him he was a narcissist, went into DEEP analytical detail, being really persistent and annoying about it, and citing examples, and he now hates my guts.

NARCISSISTS DO NOT LIKE TO BE CONFRONTED ABOUT THEIR ACTUAL WEAKNESSES. You can say to them all kinds of things that they think and/or "know" don't apply to them, but confront them about what's really falling apart on the inside of their house, and they'll excommunicate you.


In fact I want to add a few things here: narcissists should always be confronted publicly, and you should have documented proof of things they did or are trying to lie about or have lied about. I didn't just make this up from personal experience, this is even recommended, that it's best to expose narcissists in a public way, and to have documented proof of things they have lied about or will try to lie about to "save face."

Narcissists can be dangerous, sounds like your mom isn't, my person wasn't, but you cannot "win" by confronting a narcissist, you can only try to get through to them, and may completely lose their trust and good feeling toward you.

I actually go back to my original opinion: don't confront your mom. It doesn't do any good. Confronting a narcissist is about as productive as talking to a brick wall, and should only be done with the intention of setting your own boundaries in how that person can treat you. They will swing back and forth from being gloomy, cynical, pessimistic hypercritical jerks to being downright lovey-dovey if you stroke their ego and are a good accessory to their ego or at least a helpful co-dependent.

The reason I was thinking it was a good idea is because she's your mom and you love her. There's ZERO point in confronting a narcissist you don't love or plan to keep in your life, because the odds of them changing in any way are very low.

And if you confronted her publicly, like a family intervention, then she couldn't emotionally belittle you or turn it around on you (narcissists are notorious for telling people they are overly sensitive, histrionic, or something, because you shouldn't have feelings that inconvenience their emotional abuse of you, after all) ...and if the entire family was there, she'd be less likely to be effective with it, and she would also be living a terrible nightmare for a narcissist: losing face in front of others, in which the narcissist can become unpredictable, even violent, which is the real reason its suggested that you confront them publicly, to protect yourself emotionally, but even physically. 

The documentation is simply to prove that she has done these things to you and others, that she may try to lie about or deny, especially if other people are watching, and it's crucial that you have proof.

But it's not going to improve your relationship with her right away, if at all. It probably won't send her running to therapy. But it might.

Since she's your mom, I'd give it a try. I'm undecided on this. 

But your little idea of "hey mom you're a narcissist" and then she can start to work on it...I'm sorry, but that's highly unlikely if she's really a narcissist. It won't be that simple, and that's why I suggest you do it later after you've moved out.


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## Dauntless

Narcissistic Mothers. 

I wish I could put the PerC face of death icon here.


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## pretense

fourtines said:


> But your little idea of "hey mom you're a narcissist" and then she can start to work on it...I'm sorry, but that's highly unlikely if she's really a narcissist. It won't be that simple, and that's why I suggest you do it later after you've moved out.


Consciousness seal of approval.

(from personal experience)


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## superbundle

AriesLilith said:


> I just wanted to add that one of the things I came to realize, which helped me to make peace with the past, was that I realized how human and humanly imperfect she actually was. She was just someone lost in her own sadness, and desperated about how her life was. Realizing this made me felt empathy towards her, and forgive her.


I forgive her, and I love her- so much that it used to hurt that she didn't see me as Me. 



consciousness said:


> I feel for you, unfortunately I happen to be an asshole of unworldly magnitude, and therefore am not capable of giving you advice that could be considered by a reasonable person. Yet I can relate to you on a million different levels, so if you are looking for someone to relate to, I'm your guy...


Lies, you're not a 100% asshole. (everyone's got an asshole, and has potential to be one)




fourtines said:


> In a couple where one partner is a narcissist, it ultimately requires the other partner to also be a narcissist, so they can have an empty but picture perfect on the outside relationship fraught with a constant sense of longing which culminates in one night stands with other people or them murdering each other or something almost as dramatic....sooo...in the long term, it's really best for the narcissistic partner to have an enabler, or a codependent, or someone who is an "introverted narcissist."
> 
> It only stands to follow that your narcissistic mother has an enabling husband, or your parents may have divorced long ago.
> 
> As a teen, your best bet is either to go away to college, or get a job and move out. I had a parental figure who had mental issues, and confronting her about it was not an option, and she was later diagnosed and actually court-ordered into psychiatric care by a judge, but I was already well into my twenties at that time, so fat lot of good it did me, other than being reassured I was absolutely right. And so were my friends. And all of my friends parents. And our neighbors. And my other relatives.
> 
> The problem with narcissists, though, especially in a culture like the U.S., people may downplay what she's doing that's so abusive because you've been given external trappings of support, usually a lot of financial support, nice clothes, cars, stuff like that, so who are you to complain right? Right. That's how I grew up too. Neither of my guardians were a narcissist, but in the U.S., if you look privileged, you are privileged, because we actually live in a culture that enables narcissism through rewarding external trappings of success and downplaying real internal self-esteem and self-worth.
> 
> So tell your social worker, but wait to tell your family and confront your parents AFTER you go away to school or get a job and move out, because I assure you, it's not going to be received well, but it will be a much easier battle to fight as a confident adult living away from your parents.


That makes lots of sense. I've worried many times in the past that they were going to get a divorce.. but when I think about it, they both have narcissistic tendencies.

It's interesting how you linked that to our culture- and I absolutely agree with you.

Telling my social worker.. I'm not quite sure about that yet. I don't want him to bring unnecessary trouble.. because I have a plan to live through this. Not.. jeopordize my chances of getting into college any further. 



fourtines said:


> I mean just as a personal anecdote, I recently told a narcissist who trusted and cared for me (in his way?) that he was a narcissist, and he hates me now. And I've been through a lot with this person. He probably would have forgiven me for TP-ing his house or eating his first born, but calling him a narcissist is what ultimately ended any and all friendship/relationship we may have had.
> 
> I could cuss him out, tell him I hated him, blah blah blah...a half an hour or three days later he'd start calmly talking to me, trying desperately to change the subject to something pleasant and neutral, etc.
> 
> But I told him he was a narcissist, went into DEEP analytical detail, being really persistent and annoying about it, and citing examples, and he now hates my guts.
> 
> NARCISSISTS DO NOT LIKE TO BE CONFRONTED ABOUT THEIR ACTUAL WEAKNESSES. You can say to them all kinds of things that they think and/or "know" don't apply to them, but confront them about what's really falling apart on the inside of their house, and they'll excommunicate you.
> 
> 
> In fact I want to add a few things here: narcissists should always be confronted publicly, and you should have documented proof of things they did or are trying to lie about or have lied about. I didn't just make this up from personal experience, this is even recommended, that it's best to expose narcissists in a public way, and to have documented proof of things they have lied about or will try to lie about to "save face."
> 
> Narcissists can be dangerous, sounds like your mom isn't, my person wasn't, but you cannot "win" by confronting a narcissist, you can only try to get through to them, and may completely lose their trust and good feeling toward you.
> 
> I actually go back to my original opinion: don't confront your mom. It doesn't do any good. Confronting a narcissist is about as productive as talking to a brick wall, and should only be done with the intention of setting your own boundaries in how that person can treat you. They will swing back and forth from being gloomy, cynical, pessimistic hypercritical jerks to being downright lovey-dovey if you stroke their ego and are a good accessory to their ego or at least a helpful co-dependent.
> 
> The reason I was thinking it was a good idea is because she's your mom and you love her. There's ZERO point in confronting a narcissist you don't love or plan to keep in your life, because the odds of them changing in any way are very low.
> 
> And if you confronted her publicly, like a family intervention, then she couldn't emotionally belittle you or turn it around on you (narcissists are notorious for telling people they are overly sensitive, histrionic, or something, because you shouldn't have feelings that inconvenience their emotional abuse of you, after all) ...and if the entire family was there, she'd be less likely to be effective with it, and she would also be living a terrible nightmare for a narcissist: losing face in front of others, in which the narcissist can become unpredictable, even violent, which is the real reason its suggested that you confront them publicly, to protect yourself emotionally, but even physically.
> 
> The documentation is simply to prove that she has done these things to you and others, that she may try to lie about or deny, especially if other people are watching, and it's crucial that you have proof.
> 
> But it's not going to improve your relationship with her right away, if at all. It probably won't send her running to therapy. But it might.
> 
> Since she's your mom, I'd give it a try. I'm undecided on this.
> 
> But your little idea of "hey mom you're a narcissist" and then she can start to work on it...I'm sorry, but that's highly unlikely if she's really a narcissist. It won't be that simple, and that's why I suggest you do it later after you've moved out.


She.. openly does this in front of the family (on her side of the family), so does my dad. So perhaps my mom's side of the family.. is filled with narcissists. 

About confronting narcissists as the same as talking to a brick wall.. if only I knew that sooner, lol. But all my persistence for the year my aunt passed away has proved to me exactly that she is a narcissist. 

She's not "dangerous", but I guess-- she does feed all my anxiety and negative emotions. But that has made me tougher the hard way..

I almost threw my dream away to try and "save" my parents. But in the end, I choose I wanted to put myself first. I would've- never forgiven myself if I lived for their sake. But it's not like I'm abandoning them either. 

Like one article had said, I simply have to accept the fact I've never had a real mother and father. That my job is to empathize with their limitations. 

___________________________

Now, I'm not so much consumed by my emotions (type 4 sx) and I've got a pretty good game plan. 

Thank you guys for your advice, thoughts, and sympathies!  
It touches my heart, hehe lol. 
But really! Thank you, fourtines, arieslilith, consciousness, dauntless!


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## Thalassa

@_superbundle_

Well, it's apparent to me that you're NOT a narcissist, and if you have narcissistic features/tendencies from having a narcissist as a same-sex parent, it doesn't mean that you are pathological, even if you have some tendencies. 

PLEASE do not throw your "dream" away to save your parents. It's actually very rare that narcissists are "cured" and even if they go into therapy, this will take years. 

It's not like they're low-functioning paranoid schizophrenics or homeless people with bipolar disorder, so your idea of sacrificing yourself to "save" them from a narcissistic/co-dependent relationship is sweet but very misguided, and actually points more to co-dependent or enabling tendencies in you rather than narcissism. I know. I'm an enabler/codependent who is in lifelong recovery basically (I also have a mood disorder, but that's neurochemical and runs in my family, and I'm very fortunate to have a relatively mild version of it).

You may always be attracted to narcissists or people who have narcissistic tendencies. The love of my life so far, a six year relationship, was with a BPD sufferer with narcissistic tendencies, and the only person I felt really psychologically "close" to in terms of men I had feelings for after him, is more than likely a narcissist, or something else with serious narcissistic features, which is the person I mentioned I confronted. 

They CAN love you. When info says that narcissists don't love, what they mean is that narcissists can't love unconditionally. That's different. It means that their love is conditional and wane and wax according to your behavior, and that when it wanes they can do horribly abusive things to you, and treat you almost like you don't matter, like shutting off a tap or something. It's similar to Borderline Personality Disorder that way, but instead of extreme love/hate drama, it's more just like...they love conditionally. They may not hate you the way someone with BPD does, but they'll just ...kind of...not feel? Or be convinced that you and your feelings don't matter, until they start to miss you because THEY need attention or feel lonely or sad.

Luckily with narcissists who aren't violent or dangerous, I think they do have more capacity to love, and you can have relationships with them that aren't completely catastrophic, but their love will always be conditional and have this sometimes creepy not feeling periods, where they'll judge you harshly or decide you don't measure up to whatever their narcissistic image standard is. For some narcissists its appearance, narcissists tend to be fairly good looking people (though not always as good looking as they think they are, they may sometimes just be well-groomed or well-dressed instead of actually looking as beautiful as they think they are) and for others it's about material success or other externalized goals. 

So sure your parents are worth helping, I'm sure they do love you in their conditional way (or rather your mother seems to be the main culprit here, while your dad is the co-dependent or perhaps "inverted narcissist") and they aren't a danger to you, but if there's a lot of narcissism in your family, I think it's best for you to focus on getting yourself AWAY then try to help them slowly from a distance.

Good luck. I'm sorry you had to grow up with this. I grew up with someone with BPD who had narcissistic features, though not a full blown narcissist, it's still the same affect: you're only treated with warmth, love, and acceptance when you achieve, make good grades, do exactly as they say, dress the way they want you to, something along those lies. It's hard...because they love you, and may be very giving, but they aren't necessarily loving or appreciating you as A SEPARATE PERSON with your own identity. And then they can be abusive when you displease them.


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## pretense

superbundle said:


> I forgive her, and I love her- so much that it used to hurt that she didn't see me as Me.
> 
> Lies, you're not a 100% asshole. (everyone's got an asshole, and has potential to be one)
> 
> I almost threw my dream away to try and "save" my parents. But in the end, I choose I wanted to put myself first. I would've- never forgiven myself if I lived for their sake. But it's not like I'm abandoning them either.
> 
> Like one article had said, I simply have to accept the fact I've never had a real mother and father. That my job is to empathize with their limitations.


Alright, you're scaring me with this "save them," talk. In all likelihood it is simply an odd choice of words but there is a possibility that you are deeper into a development of narcissism than you mentioned in your original post. Is there anything else you might have left out that is relevant to your issues? 

and this may seem like a very unassholely reaction, but the only reason I do it is because you remind me of myself. Almost like I can go back in time and stop myself from falling into it.


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## pretense

> _I simply have to accept the fact I've never had a real mother and father._


also this one hurts. big time. I understand.


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## superbundle

consciousness said:


> Alright, you're scaring me with this "save them," talk. In all likelihood it is simply an odd choice of words but there is a possibility that you are deeper into a development of narcissism than you mentioned in your original post. Is there anything else you might have left out that is relevant to your issues?
> 
> and this may seem like a very unassholely reaction, but the only reason I do it is because you remind me of myself. Almost like I can go back in time and stop myself from falling into it.


Yeah, I was starting to wonder that it'd be natural since I have two narcissistic parents, that I would turn into one too, so I was actually wondering. 

Well, I guess I am "keeping" one thing away, and I think you mean.. Well, this is self diagnosed of course though: post traumatic stress disorder. I don't have it any though, and what I count as not having it anymore is that, I don't get panic attacks anymore and I've realized the world isn't out to get me!(no, in all seriousness, I meant that). Or perhaps I still I have remnants of it. I mean, it's almost been 2 years since my aunt passed away.


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## superbundle

fourtines said:


> @_superbundle_
> 
> Well, it's apparent to me that you're NOT a narcissist, and if you have narcissistic features/tendencies from having a narcissist as a same-sex parent, it doesn't mean that you are pathological, even if you have some tendencies.
> 
> PLEASE do not throw your "dream" away to save your parents. It's actually very rare that narcissists are "cured" and even if they go into therapy, this will take years.
> 
> It's not like they're low-functioning paranoid schizophrenics or homeless people with bipolar disorder, so your idea of sacrificing yourself to "save" them from a narcissistic/co-dependent relationship is sweet but very misguided, and actually points more to co-dependent or enabling tendencies in you rather than narcissism. I know. I'm an enabler/codependent who is in lifelong recovery basically (I also have a mood disorder, but that's neurochemical and runs in my family, and I'm very fortunate to have a relatively mild version of it).
> 
> You may always be attracted to narcissists or people who have narcissistic tendencies. The love of my life so far, a six year relationship, was with a BPD sufferer with narcissistic tendencies, and the only person I felt really psychologically "close" to in terms of men I had feelings for after him, is more than likely a narcissist, or something else with serious narcissistic features, which is the person I mentioned I confronted.
> 
> They CAN love you. When info says that narcissists don't love, what they mean is that narcissists can't love unconditionally. That's different. It means that their love is conditional and wane and wax according to your behavior, and that when it wanes they can do horribly abusive things to you, and treat you almost like you don't matter, like shutting off a tap or something. It's similar to Borderline Personality Disorder that way, but instead of extreme love/hate drama, it's more just like...they love conditionally. They may not hate you the way someone with BPD does, but they'll just ...kind of...not feel? Or be convinced that you and your feelings don't matter, until they start to miss you because THEY need attention or feel lonely or sad.
> 
> Luckily with narcissists who aren't violent or dangerous, I think they do have more capacity to love, and you can have relationships with them that aren't completely catastrophic, but their love will always be conditional and have this sometimes creepy not feeling periods, where they'll judge you harshly or decide you don't measure up to whatever their narcissistic image standard is. For some narcissists its appearance, narcissists tend to be fairly good looking people (though not always as good looking as they think they are, they may sometimes just be well-groomed or well-dressed instead of actually looking as beautiful as they think they are) and for others it's about material success or other externalized goals.
> 
> So sure your parents are worth helping, I'm sure they do love you in their conditional way (or rather your mother seems to be the main culprit here, while your dad is the co-dependent or perhaps "inverted narcissist") and they aren't a danger to you, but if there's a lot of narcissism in your family, I think it's best for you to focus on getting yourself AWAY then try to help them slowly from a distance.
> 
> Good luck. I'm sorry you had to grow up with this. I grew up with someone with BPD who had narcissistic features, though not a full blown narcissist, it's still the same affect: you're only treated with warmth, love, and acceptance when you achieve, make good grades, do exactly as they say, dress the way they want you to, something along those lies. It's hard...because they love you, and may be very giving, but they aren't necessarily loving or appreciating you as A SEPARATE PERSON with your own identity. And then they can be abusive when you displease them.


Yeah. I agree. I like how you put it as "conditional", that makes sense. 

Its just that.. I'm an extremely.. Feeling person, I have a lot of emotions and I like to share them, especially the positive ones. And then, when I say something that happened during my day that I enjoyed, she'd find something bad about her day. It's a mood killer. I guess.. I'm sensitive. 

But no, I'm definitely not throwing my dreams away. It just.. Terrifies me at times when my mom gets those moments when she starts yelling at me because I don't show that I'm in a joyful mood and she tells me she feels like shit on the top of her lungs. And we'll, I've learnt to take their words as a grain of salt.. Sometimes. To make matters a bit more complicated, I'm having a bit of a health issue. 

Dont worry, I won't be helping them before I help myself.



My dad also has those moments of narcissism.. It makes me moody. I think that's about it. I hate being told what to do, I just want to be me. And my self esteem is.. Delicate you can say.

trying to build myself up when they're trying to tear me down. Lol
im reading about children of narcissists. I just know I'm going to have trouble with love..


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## pretense

superbundle said:


> Yeah, I was starting to wonder that it'd be natural since I have two narcissistic parents, that I would turn into one too, so I was actually wondering.
> 
> Well, I guess I am "keeping" one thing away, and I think you mean.. Well, this is self diagnosed of course though: post traumatic stress disorder. I don't have it any though, and what I count as not having it anymore is that, I don't get panic attacks anymore and I've realized the world isn't out to get me!(no, in all seriousness, I meant that). Or perhaps I still I have remnants of it. I mean, it's almost been 2 years since my aunt passed away.


I don't want to get pushy with you, but you need to answer this question. Do you think you're better than everyone else?


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## superbundle

consciousness said:


> I don't want to get pushy with you, but you need to answer this question. Do you think you're better than everyone else?


No I don't. But now you're left with the possibility I might be a liar. A compulsive liar. 

For me, when i try to read someone. Its more telling to read in between the lines. Asking direct yes or no questions, it's easy to lie. 
And I don't mean to say that to offend you or Anything, nor am I criticizing the way you analyze others. Just saying there can be many loop holes in that kind of logic. 

Because I could also be delusional and in complete denial. Where I would think I'm telling the truth, mean while its through distorted lens.


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## pretense

superbundle said:


> No I don't. But now you're left with the possibility I might be a liar. A compulsive liar.
> 
> For me, when i try to read someone. Its more telling to read in between the lines. Asking direct yes or no questions, it's easy to lie.
> And I don't mean to say that to offend you or Anything, nor am I criticizing the way you judge others. Just saying there can be many loop holes in that kind of logic.
> 
> Because I could also be delusional and in complete denial. Where I would think I'm telling the truth, mean while its through distorted lens.


What is your dream?


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## superbundle

consciousness said:


> What is your dream?


My dream is very personal.

I know you're trying to help me. But I've already conveyed in my previous posts that I'm good. I thank you guys for the insight and sympathies.


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## pretense

superbundle said:


> My dream is very personal.


I am having a conversation with myself right now. I swear.


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## superbundle

consciousness said:


> I am having a conversation with myself right now. I swear.


in other words, thanks for showing your concern. But I wish not to share that.


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## pretense

superbundle said:


> in other words, thanks for showing your concern. But I wish not to share that.


I'm sorry I upset you.


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## superbundle

consciousness said:


> I'm sorry I upset you.


You didn't. But if I were to allow you to judge me based on my dreams, I would be.


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## pretense

superbundle said:


> You didn't. But if I were to allow you to judge me based on my dreams, I would be.


Is it a dream, or is it something that you are really confident is going to happen?


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## snowbell

superbundle said:


> Yeah, I was starting to wonder that it'd be natural since I have two narcissistic parents, that I would turn into one too, so I was actually wondering.
> 
> Well, I guess I am "keeping" one thing away, and I think you mean.. Well, this is self diagnosed of course though: post traumatic stress disorder. I don't have it any though, and what I count as not having it anymore is that, I don't get panic attacks anymore and I've realized the world isn't out to get me!(no, in all seriousness, I meant that). Or perhaps I still I have remnants of it. I mean, it's almost been 2 years since my aunt passed away.


I think the prevailing wisdom is that if you think you're a narcissist then you're likely not, because a real narcissist wouldn't even think of the possibility and thinks others are the problem, not them.


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