# The dark & ugly, often overlooked side of Sx.



## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

I really enjoyed this thread. The dominant instinct is a compulsion, and each instinct signifies a fundamental insecurity. For Sx, the insecurity has to do with desireability in a lot of ways. The darker side of SX is explored in the thread, so obviously it covers the negative aspects. Because this instinct is glorified so much, it's important to strip away the glamour and intrigue and explore its darker manifestation.

My partner is an sx/so 1w9. I am Sp/Sx, with strong Sx. Most people find my passionate, lusty, intensity seeking personality to be excessive, even though Sx is my secondary instinct. The Sp makes me more reserved, detached and distant, but there's a lot of simmering intensity right underneath. I say this to establish that I am not someone that is taken aback/made uncomfortable by emotional intensity, longing, a desire for a charged connection and more. I value and want emotional stability to be restored eventually, but I don't shy away from volatility for its own sake. I do want a lot out of a relationship, and being "in synch" with my partner is a high priority for me. Even still, my Sx first partner can be overwhelming in the relationship domain. He is extremely engaged, exceedingly passionate and involved, though any perception that the connect is dwindling can be very painful for him, resulting in a kind of desperation/pronounced restlessness that makes no sense to me. There are times when I feel like I am trying to play catch up with his intensity and his constant need for merging/connection and a closeness many would find invasive. 

His insecurity isn't so much "possessiveness" in the douchy 'jealous' sense. Though, we like hoarding each other's times and like exclusivity (he has a stronger need for it than I do). When we have the time, we can spend all day in each other's arms and don't want any intrusions/interference. He focuses on whatever captures his attention like a laser. The insecurity, in his case, is more about making sure he's putting his all into the relationship, and making sure that the connection we share doesn't dwindle, that the relationship doesn't devolve into sheer monotony. This can be tiring to have to contend with. He's always more of subtle changes/shifts in attention or whatever than I am. It's a compulsion, and while the positive manifestation of SX dominance keeps me on my toes, keeps me highly engaged, fulfilled and sated, the downside can be very frustrating. It's taken me many years to see his Sx needs as legitimate. But, I am grateful for a partner for whom I am an all consuming passion, who puts tremendous efforts into keeping things stimulating and inspired. It can get obsessive in a very charming way, in light of his robust emotional and mental health, overall. Many other Sx doms can get insanely jealous, possessive, absurdly demanding and ridiculous. There are others that flit from one relationship to the next, never finding the intensity or fulfillment they crave. So, the instinct does have a nasty downside. And, it's good to discuss it openly.


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## Feathers Falling (Sep 5, 2012)

Very interesting thread!!! It's sometimes overlooked how much sx/so/sp truly affects ourselves. I think being an SX/SO is so descriptive of who I am... 

The dominant SX creates so much awesomeness, I would never want to be something else, but it creates a LOT of difficulties in pretty much every aspect of my life :/ 

-I crave, crave, crave intense and intimate relationships with people. All of my relationships. Friendships, supervisor/subordinate, lovers. It all has to be close and intense and genuine. I'm unhappy otherwise lol... Kind of a sad thing. I've always had a hard time knowing where to draw the line. This can make Sp/So and So/Sp people veeeery confused... I usually can't be friends with people who don't have SX as first or second stacking. I don't get hooked on them. They don't give me that connection and excitement I'm looking for. And they just get confused and think I'm crazy, or get hooked on me and get hurt later when I get bored and uninterested...

-I have had relationship after relationship with people where I meet them, become super interested and intense and close, let all of my guard down and the let theirs down eventually, then when I'm done figuring them out I just... lose interest and fade out of the relationship... Actually, understanding MBTI and enneagram has both helped and hurt with this problem:

-It's helped because now I know what MBTI/enneagram types I like and don't like, those that I'm interested in but don't get along with.. whatever the case may be.  I stay away from people I know I won't get along with eventually. Save both of us time and misunderstanding. 

-On the flip side, it's made certain things worse. Since I'm so interested in figuring people out with enneagram now, if I don't know what they are or how all of their personality and thought process works, I get SUUUPER FUCKING INTERESTED in them and I'll spend all of my energy on them because they're fun and interesting and new. :3 The line.. I never know where to draw the line.. this is dangerous for people who start liking me more than they should. I ALWAYS make sure to tell them exactly how I am and that I'm not interested in seriousness or relationships or dating or anything, but this doesn't always work for some people... some people don't understand how I can get so close to them and make all these intense connections with them so quickly, but I don't actually feel for them as deeply as they've started feeling for me. I'm talking about guys who start liking me, btw. So when feelings start happening, I back the fuck out... It sucks that it has to be so abrupt and so ultimate, but I've tried to hold onto these types of relationships before and it doesn't work. It just creates pain for them and frustration for me, and I don't want to treat them badly because I'm frustrated. 

-I struggle with knowing where to draw the line... I want to be myself and not hold back, but it's not healthy for others or my friendships... I DON'T WANNA TAME MYSELF.. I wanna experience everything in its purest form... but it's neither smart nor healthy. I wonder if I'll always be this way... would I be happier controlling myself more? *sigh*

-Since I don't have SP in my stacking, I have no self-preservation. This use to be really bad when I was younger, more innocent, naive, and had a lot less control of myself. I would never think about the consequences of my actions, I would just do what I wanted.. well, turns out you can't do that!!!!! Not if you don't want rumors and a bad reputation preceding you...Anyways, this is very hard for Sp people to handle. They don't want me around risking their safety and stability lol.. It's best if I stay away from Sp types...


Being an Sx dom has made life a huge struggle... but I'm learning to tone it down and function in the real world lol. It ain't all rainbows and butterflies out there.


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## Feathers Falling (Sep 5, 2012)

On that note, I LOVE when I find another SX/SO... we just become the center of each others world. We want to experience and soak up everything about the other person. We want to share everything so intensely and passionately... It's a freakin trip :3 BUUT it can be a rather volatile relationship.... Exciting tho!! 

:kitteh:


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## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

Boss said:


> I really enjoyed this thread. The dominant instinct is a compulsion, and each instinct signifies a fundamental insecurity. For Sx, the insecurity has to do with desireability in a lot of ways. The darker side of SX is explored in the thread, so obviously it covers the negative aspects. Because this instinct is glorified so much, it's important to strip away the glamour and intrigue and explore its darker manifestation.


I'm glad you brought this up, because I think a common mistake is that desirability in the Sx sense is defined according to societal standards. People end up understanding Sx as being provocative, lusty, perhaps promiscuous, not to mention enticing in terms of physical appearance, especially for women. I personally disagree. It all depends on the individual, and what *THEY *believe to be attractive. For example, I'm the kind of woman who wouldn't spend ages getting ready, my hair's always a mess, I'm not big on fashion BUT I focus a lot on how my personality is attractive, and how easily I can draw people in. 



> Even still, my Sx first partner can be overwhelming in the relationship domain. He is extremely engaged, exceedingly passionate and involved, though any perception that the connect is dwindling can be very painful for him, resulting in a kind of desperation/pronounced restlessness that makes no sense to me. There are times when I feel like I am trying to play catch up with his intensity and his constant need for merging/connection and a closeness many would find invasive.


I think many Sx doms can be preoccupied by the thought of a relationship becoming mundane, bland. The thought of that plagues me and I'm not sure I fully understand why. As a result, there is this excessive monitoring at play here. Recently, an So/Sx friend of mine described it as "having a finger on the pulse of the relationship". It doesn't mean that Sx doms are possessive, clingy, controlling, jealous, or anything of that sort. We're just really attuned to these things, and we can't help it. 



> The insecurity, in his case, is more about making sure he's putting his all into the relationship, and making sure that the connection we share doesn't dwindle, that the relationship doesn't devolve into sheer monotony. This can be tiring to have to contend with. He's always more of subtle changes/shifts in attention or whatever than I am. It's a compulsion, and while the positive manifestation of SX dominance keeps me on my toes, keeps me highly engaged, fulfilled and sated, the downside can be very frustrating. It's taken me many years to see his Sx needs as legitimate. But, I am grateful for a partner for whom I am an all consuming passion, who puts tremendous efforts into keeping things stimulating and inspired. It can get obsessive in a very charming way, in light of his robust emotional and mental health, overall. Many other Sx doms can get insanely jealous, possessive, absurdly demanding and ridiculous. There are others that flit from one relationship to the next, never finding the intensity or fulfillment they crave. So, the instinct does have a nasty downside. And, it's good to discuss it openly.


He's lucky to be with someone so understanding  Acceptance of such traits can really make a difference. I don't think Sx doms have any choice with regards to noticing the minor, very subtle differences in the dynamic. It's just part of who we are, just like an Sp dom can't help but notice and be distressed by disturbances in health (for example). What we need is someone embracing that side of us, and be willing to go along with us when we feel that disconnect, to work _*with us*_ to bring it back. 

Despite being Sx, I still *very much *enjoy giving my partner space. I don't need to be stuck like glue to them, and I think time apart is an essential part of the relationship. The difference is that, when we ARE together, I want to completely immerse myself in them. I want undivided attention, and I want us to enjoy the quality time we share fully. It upsets me to feel like my SO isn't really there with me, that they're not giving it their all. To some, it may seem high maintenance, and I suppose it is. I'm starting to see the positive side of this though, in that I'm fully invested and will never let a relationship grow stale.


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## Feathers Falling (Sep 5, 2012)

fourtines said:


> i've got to learn to be less stabby


lol.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

fourtines said:


> I'm curious as an sx/sp what do you get intense about (when not with people you're "involved" with)?
> I think part of the reason I'm so intense about things like politics and ethics is being an E6 sx/so...I think sx/so's INTENSELY care about some kind of social cause or are world-minded, and probably depending on personality type and enneagram number, they will focus that on different things...like for example I imagine an E3 sx/so being a predominant member of their country club or community watch organization or their children's school PTA, or even in a big league political arena where they can obtain a lot of validation and applause, and I tend to want to stab people in the eye for voting for Ron Paul.
> *
> I've got to learn to be less stabby (note: I don't really stab people, and mostly just argue with people on-line, try to convert people to my causes on facebook, make sure I vote, encourage other people to do so, sign petitions, occasionally participate in protests or rallies, and/or donate money to animal charities).*


1w2 fixer =)

OT
@kaleidoscope
I think all the instincts are based off of some underlying insecurity. to some extent, these insecurities are rational 
- if you don't have sex, you won't reproduce. 
- if you become socially ostracized, you stand a higher chance of starvation or being killed in the wild. 
- if you fail to take care of yourself, you will get sick, injured and/or die)

overall though, I have to agree that Sx has a dark, nasty side to it. it's great when you have it, but when you get disconnected from your source of intimacy/fire, it *sucks*! everything feels hopeless, motivation plummets, intense feelings of jealousy can ensue, most other areas of life can start to feel "not worth it" and a whole range of emotions that you know are irrational tempt you to do/say really stupid, unfair things. sometimes I wish I was Sp/So so I wouldn't have to deal with this shit and could get get on with my life (and this is coming from an Sp/Sx. I can scarcely imagine being an Sx dom, NF 4. the emotional torment that ensues when you're at a low must be excruciating)


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## meridannight (Nov 23, 2012)

Boss said:


> For Sx, the insecurity has to do with desireability in a lot of ways.


i was never able to connect this to instinctual stacking, but yeah, makes sense, unfortunately.



Boss said:


> any perception that the connect is dwindling can be very painful for him, resulting in a kind of desperation/pronounced restlessness that makes no sense to me.


i have the same thing, and it never makes sense to myself either. i'm always aware when i become like this, and i don't like it. i consider myself quite a rational person, and this process is the opposite of something rational. a slight diminishing of intensity doesn't mean the connection is on its way to die off, but in my mind i sort of panic that it is. it doesn't make sense. and experience has proven that it's mostly a false alarm, but still it happens, and i have no damn control over it.


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## Dyidia (May 28, 2010)

Ace Face said:


> I don't feel like I'm describing this very well. I recognize that my desires are just that... desires. Though those desires are very strong, there is still a huge difference between a need and a desire. I've become very mindful of this in more recent years. Everyone needs hugs and kisses, but I desire them to an excessive extent which turns it into a completely different ball game.


I would say distinguishing needs from desires is the way out from the icky side of the Sx-instinct. It's an area of growth for everyone, of course, but I think it's particularly the problem for Sx-dominants (and what others are seeing when dealing with ones they didn't get along well with). I totally agree that there's a huge difference, but I don't think that difference is always registered internally. I've understood this distinction very early on from an intellectual standpoint, but emotionally it still doesn't always register that way.




> 1. Not all sx dominants are at the same place in life. While some might be insecure, some might not be.
> 2. Anyone of any stacking can be insecure.
> 3. Insecurity doesn't fuel needs. More often than not, insecurity is fueled by wants that sometimes feel like needs.
> 4. Balance can always be achieved.


Yeah, on second thought I think the type of insecurity needs to be qualified. Looking at the dark/ugly side of the sexual instinct, the best I can come up with is an intolerance for weak connections due to desires being treated as needs.

In contrast, the ugly side of sp seems to start with an excessive concern with actual needs (e.g. safety) so insecurity in that area, and the ugly side of soc seems to start with an excessive preoccupation in that area, leading to insecurity in regards to standing and the like.

Maybe "excessive" or "needy" is a better term for how the icky side of sx comes across?




Boss said:


> The insecurity, in his case, is more about making sure he's putting his all into the relationship, and making sure that the connection we share doesn't dwindle, that the relationship doesn't devolve into sheer monotony. This can be tiring to have to contend with. He's always more of subtle changes/shifts in attention or whatever than I am. It's a compulsion, and while the positive manifestation of SX dominance keeps me on my toes, keeps me highly engaged, fulfilled and sated, the downside can be very frustrating.


Ah, yeah this makes a lot of sense to me. My attitude tends to be all-in, then drop the connection when it dwindles, so I totally understand the need to make sure the connection doesn't dwindle. Once a connection becomes "stable," I can't help but feel like it's a waste of time, and if I can't seem to get it deeper I tend to check out entirely (9 defense mechanism, I think).



pizzapie said:


> I have a question for sx doms. How do you feel intensity between yourself and others? Like, what triggers it and what does the other person do that makes you feel like the intensity is gone?


_Lock eyes, from across the room. Down my drink while the rhythms boom.._

Jk. But seriously, I have a gut-instinctual-instant attraction towards the people I'm romantically interested in, and it usually comes from either locking eyes with someone upon first meeting them or from there being a sudden sense of connection based on how they carry themselves. More generally, it's a sense of being directly engaged, like both me and my interlocutor are totally attuned to each other, and moreover are on the same page.

It's a feeling of resonance, like we're a chorus, singing the same song. I feel like I'd be totally into it still if someone were playing the same game but against me (though I've never had that type of "enemy/antithetical resonance"). I say that because once the connection is established, hot displays of discord work just fine, so long as the person is willing to actually still engage me. Once a person backs off or checks out, the intensity goes off. Like if someone can't relate, I'd rather them be open about it (ideally expressing how they really feel), but when someone starts _assuming_ that I'll feel a certain way or pushes me to react a certain way, even I start skirting the connection.

If the broader social dynamic is one that discourages the direct expression of discordant feelings, I check out as soon as I can't relate, and I'll usually find a way to leave.


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## Animal (May 29, 2012)

*If it's not worth doing in excess, it's not worth doing at all.*

The quote pretty much says it all. When I first wrote it, I was not even into enneagram. It was a tag line I used on a lot of profiles, and I transferred it over to PerC.

I had a lot of trouble deciding between SP and SX for my dominant instinct because I have this intense drive towards my work, and even in the most passionate relationship, I will lose my mind if I don't have time to attend to my work and my creative passions. However, the intensity seems to apply to projects that I am emotionally invested in, whether or not they make money. My intensity about my projects can approach the point of "overdoing it" very, very easily.

I also can't deny that one of my major issues in life has pertained to possessiveness and feeling that I'll be rejected or betrayed. I imagine someone who loves me today will just fade away tomorrow; and I will feel like I want to get on my knees and beg (something I don't do, but deep down I fear that someone would have this kind of power and control over me, and many of my biggest mistakes with people pertain to keeping up defenses against this). At the risk of being repetitive, I am going to post a link to a song that I've been posting over and over since my earliest days on PerC, and also on facebook ... ugh, I just *love* this song. He sings over and over, "I'll give you something more, and you fade away... one last kiss before you fade away..."






If I start to feel attached, I fear someone will fade away and I will be there on my knees. The song reminds me of how desperate I can feel when I just want to *absorb* someone, but they aren't giving back enough, they aren't sharing my intense thirst and hunger. And at the end he says, "The lies you once adored, will fade away... the lies you can't ignore, you'll soon repay as you fade away..." his anger there is so frighteningly relatable. 

When I get in this mood, I have to remind myself these are *my* irrational feelings. I have to be careful not to blame the other person for causing these feelings, because I am apt to believe they are, and react accordingly. My reaction used to entail cutting them off, putting my defenses up, ignoring their texts, imagining I won't "give in" unless they "grovel" and so forth.... not cool, considering *I* refuse to beg, and it ends up putting the other person in an unfair position and/or depriving myself of the chance to have an honest relationship. Thankfully I have grown out of this, and I've learned to communicate honestly about my feelings, even if I can't make the feelings go away. The unfortunate part is that when I open up about my feelings and make myself vulnerable, if the other person isn't receptive & understanding, I can get *really* angry.


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## Animal (May 29, 2012)

cata.lyst.rawr said:


> -I have had relationship after relationship with people where I meet them, become super interested and intense and close, let all of my guard down and the let theirs down eventually, then when I'm done figuring them out I just... lose interest and fade out of the relationship...


This is exactly what I am afraid of, when I start to get 'vulnerable' to someone and feel attached in a deeper way. I think part of the reason I imagine being subject to this sort of betrayal is because I am so aware of this potential in myself.


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## princessJAY (May 25, 2011)

There is a dark side to all of our unbalanced dominant instincts. We pack more _things_ into it than the instinct warrants.

By itself, SX is liquid fire that seeps into our hearts and soul, that spark of excitation setting embers aflame. With SP, it goes deep into the esoteric self and lifts one into mystic realms. With SO, it moves entire webs of human connection and push things into motion.

Yet, when unbalanced, it comes with tunnel vision, on-off attention, pride, compulsiveness, obsession, and selfishness.

I cannot speak for other SX-dom, but I have a lot of baggage packed into SX domain. Due to some early abandonment experience, the little child within me confuses the feeling of closeness -- real or manufactured -- found in intimate relationships with _existential safety_. That is, I have remnants of unexamined thoughts and overlooked emotion that confuses romantic intimacy with the safety a very young child feels in her mother's arms, wherein _all fears vanish_. 

With the safety of my entire existence hanging upon this thread, of course there are inevitable side-effects. When faced with stress, this part of me feels deeply unsafe, which turned into a conscious/semi-conscious craving for romantic love. Driven by craving, longing for "connection," I automatically tried to make every potential relationship potentially romantic (or if friendship, one that is _deeply intimate_). A woman driven by hunger has no thoughts for anything other than food. When SX is out of balanced, things that did not offer deep intimacy & engagement (which is a mental illusion, our ego's way of self-soothing, hiding our inner vulnerability), seemed bland and uninteresting, going no where. I was unable to have casual friendships with the opposite sex, and missed out on a _lot_ of very great relationships because, unconsciously, my hunger made these feel like a waste of precious time & effort.

And of course, I was possessive, obsessive, and jealous. My _existential safety_ depends on having this person around, fully into me, paying attention, giving me all their time. Any little deviation or "cooling off" triggered jabs of fear deep in my stomach. There were times I could not sleep, could not eat. Dating, in fact, was great for losing weight because the stress and constant anxiety it created caused me to lose appetite for weeks on end.

The instincts are unbalanced because in order to cope with (often) childhood issues, we invented convoluted strategies to deal with fear, all kinds of magical thinking, that made us feel better when we were very small, but is actually false and not helpful to us as human beings. If we look within, with care, thoroughly, deep enough and willing to face our own worst terror, with compassionate for what we find there, these hidden darkness can gradually come to light, and then we will truly be able to heal. This is true for SX, SP, SO. Or whatever labels or systems we choose.

That which we _crave_ we inevitably cannot have, because they can only make us feel better temporarily. The hunger is within us; until that hunger is gone, nothing will ever feel OK for long-term and it will always hurt and we will always suffer..


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

fourtines said:


> I'm curious as an sx/sp what do you get intense about (when not with people you're "involved" with)?


Personal interests mostly. As a 5, I seek extreme levels of mental stimulation, mostly by my own or I might involve others who share my interests and discuss/think/argue/banter about that ad finitum. Not so much political/social issues but more theoretical, things that personally interest me and doesn't affect anyone else e.g. personality type theory, quantum mechanics, the stupid nature of cats...

Either I invest in a hobby I like, chat to people I like or do something else I like. Heck, even eating good food like going to a buffet can suffice or just sleeping a lot because I felt tired at the time. When I fulfill sp needs that I denied, I tend to do it excessively.

As for myself, sx insecurity is more a fear of rejection that if I share of myself people might reject the content of my thoughts and if they do so, I won't share anymore. I want to show intimates who I am but it's always a matter of how much I dare doing so. I can go on and on about subjects that interest me though, but only if I experience it as reciprocated. They don't need to say anything, just be interested in what I say pretty much. 

So to me sx is very different to what has been written here thus far, and I feel it's overall very id-colored. As an ego type it's difficult to relate. Yes, possessiveness, jealousy, fear of rejection, that's something I can be prone of doing to, especially in romantic relationships where I feel I am beginning to feel rejected and thus insignificant because what I share isn't interesting to the other person anymore, but again, it all comes back to sharing and sharing of myself.


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## mimesis (Apr 10, 2012)

SharkT00th said:


> Sp doms have problems as well, *albeit Sp goes towards Sexual as it gets healthier.*


I think I can agree with you there, but can you explain this further?


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

@Maybe
makes sense you'd have trouble deciding that. by it's nature, 8 seems more Self Preservation (so do 5, 6w5).


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## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

@SharkT00th: This isn't really related to the thread topic. I'd appreciate it if you discussed this elsewhere.


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## Animal (May 29, 2012)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> @_Maybe_
> makes sense you'd have trouble deciding that. by it's nature, 8 seems more Self Preservation (so do 5, 6w5).


Yes, and also, I could see that the way I dealt with my SX issues could be very self-preservational... ie cutting someone off rather than subjecting myself to feeling "weak." 

The way that I finally settled on my instinct (after going back and forth forever) was, outside of enneagram context, I figured out what my real neurosis is. It was clearly possessiveness, even if the way I deal with it is not always through outwardly revealing my feelings. This was actually the name Naranjo gave to SX 8 - "possessiveness." As far as I can tell, I have yet to try to control someone or tell them what to do when I'm not with them, or that kind of crap. But the neurosis is huge and underlies my bad decisions, whereas my SP stuff seems to have less of a 'neurotic quality' even if it's present, so that makes it my secondary instinct; Sx/Sp.

But this is something that people also tend to miss when they glorify SX like @kaleidoscope mentioned. I think this is a very pertinent thread topic for that reason. If something is your dominant instinct, it's a *neurosis* - not something that you're "good at" or something that makes you glamorous.


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## SharkT00th (Sep 5, 2012)

mimesis said:


> I think I can agree with you there, but can you explain this further?


WHen the SP instinct feels fulfillment (meaning you have enough food, money, resources..etc etc) it begins to focus more on finding a close mate and from this point on I notice a sudden social inhibition just goes away entirely it's like magic. People who once thought I was stiff suddenly find that I'm quiet outgoing in social situations. the SP instinct itself can actually be controlled and even transcended if you understand the messages that it is sending and are able to catch it's mode of operations which is tricky but with practice can be done. Unlike the Sx instinct that people constantly describe I notice that Sp-> SX notices that there is a level of care that others show towards you.

The SP instinct is actually all about creating a niche of your own with your family/loved ones and protecting them. First though, you need to have the resources/power to do so.
@kaleidoscope 
I just noticed your mention after I posted this, lol.


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## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

princessJAY said:


> When SX is out of balanced, things that did not offer deep intimacy & engagement (which is a mental illusion, our ego's way of self-soothing, hiding our inner vulnerability), seemed bland and uninteresting, going no where. I was unable to have casual friendships with the opposite sex, and missed out on a _lot_ of very great relationships because, unconsciously, my hunger made these feel like a waste of precious time & effort.
> 
> And of course, I was possessive, obsessive, and jealous. My _existential safety_ depends on having this person around, fully into me, paying attention, giving me all their time. Any little deviation or "cooling off" triggered jabs of fear deep in my stomach. There were times I could not sleep, could not eat. Dating, in fact, was great for losing weight because the stress and constant anxiety it created caused me to lose appetite for weeks on end.


I can relate so much to this, ugh. The amount of times I've lost sleep over feeling like the connection was slowly faltering is almost silly; I cringe thinking about it. Excellent post, thank you for sharing


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Maybe said:


> Yes, and also, I could see that the way I dealt with my SX issues could be very self-preservational... ie cutting someone off rather than subjecting myself to feeling "weak."
> The way that I finally settled on my instinct (after going back and forth forever) was, outside of enneagram context, I figured out what my real neurosis is. It was clearly possessiveness, even if the way I deal with it is not always through outwardly revealing my feelings. This was actually the name Naranjo gave to SX 8 - "possessiveness." As far as I can tell, I have yet to try to control someone or tell them what to do when I'm not with them, or that kind of crap. But the neurosis is huge and underlies my bad decisions, whereas my SP stuff seems to have less of a 'neurotic quality' even if it's present, so that makes it my secondary instinct; Sx/Sp.
> But this is something that people also tend to miss when they glorify SX like @kaleidoscope mentioned. I think this is a very pertinent thread topic for that reason. If something is your dominant instinct, it's a *neurosis* - not something that you're "good at" or something that makes you glamorous.


both my Sp and Sx needs are somewhat neurotic (though I'm much too 3w4 fixed to let any of this show externally). I mostly decided on Sp because I'm a cowardly comfort slave :laughing: 


@OT
I think part of the issue is that Sx doesn't play well with the other instinctual variants on the playground. Sp and So tend to reinforce each other nicely, but Sx has a more disruptive effect. 
in Sp/Sx and Sx/Sp: Sp pulls toward safety, consistency, predictability and comfort; Sx takes risks and squanders resources for love (or, at least, it's tempted to). Rhett Butler from Gone with the Wind (8w7 Sx/Sp) comes to mind immediately. before he met Scarlett, he was on top of his game. confident, financially stable, level headed, socially unshakable, but all that was thrown off in the midst of his pursuit of Scarlett. eventually, he was forced to choose between staying with her and his own well being. if an Sx/Sp or Sp/Sx falls head over heels with the wrong person, situations of this magnitude are not uncommon

in Sx/So and So/Sx: these fit together a little better than Sx and Sp, but So pushes outward and expands consciousness to the greater whole and all of it's pieces; Sx, by contrast, is more obsessive and wants to focus on and completely experience one person or event. (I'd be interested to hear from @fourtines about her experiences with this, as Sp last types are quite foreign to me)


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## Animal (May 29, 2012)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> Rhett Butler from Gone with the Wind (8w7 Sx/Sp) comes to mind immediately. before he met Scarlett, he was on top of his game. confident, financially stable, level headed, socially unshakable, but all that was thrown off in the midst of his pursuit of Scarlett. eventually, he was forced to choose between staying with her and his own well being. if an Sx/Sp or Sp/Sx falls head over heels with the wrong person, situations of this magnitude are not uncommon


Ughgggh exactly. This makes me cringe because it's exactly what I worry will happen to me: that I'll get so carried away with a romantic pursuit that I give up what's important to me and my life will be destroyed. I've actually transferred this conflict on to a character in my own novel who chooses the romantic pursuit and that kind of "destroys" him, which shows how I really feel about it deep down. There were two other characters who were supposed to be 'loosely' based on myself (and ended up totally different), but that character was not. I drafted this prior to joining PerC, and I only recently typed my characters (as well as myself). But that character ended up with my identical tritype. I guess he had to, because what he ends up doing, and his conflicts around it, mirror my own. *throws hands in the air*


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## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

@Swordsman of Mana 

I type as Sx/So but I definitely feel like Sx is still disruptive. I often get described as having a very ON/OFF energy, and I can relate very much to this description particularly, despite not being Sx/Sp:



> Both sexual types have a large energy, and tend to be pretty obtrusive in a social setting. The difference is that SX/SO's have a smooth energy that flows outwards, while *SX/SP's energy goes in bursts. In general, SX/SP's are more in their heads, thinking.. and will sit just thinking about the conversation, then suddenly feel a big burst of sharing come on, and burst in, sometimes at the wrong point, because they're not as attuned to the social dynamic.*
> 
> When SX/SP's are in withdrawal mode, they're basically tuned out. This is why they can appear more like a self pres type. (...) If you look at them closely at such times, they'll appear to be elsewhere mentally. If you try talking to them, they'll display a reluctance to be drawn in. However, if something really catches their interest, they'll change dramatically and become like a regular sx/sp, all burst-y and jerky and excited.


Then again, I'm a 4, so I imagine I can be pretty withdrawn and removed when I feel out of touch with whatever's going on around me. I suppose overall, withdrawn types could relate to this description much more.


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## d e c a d e n t (Apr 21, 2013)

Maybe said:


> I also can't deny that one of my major issues in life has pertained to possessiveness and feeling that I'll be rejected or betrayed. I imagine someone who loves me today will just fade away tomorrow; and I will feel like I want to get on my knees and beg (something I don't do, but deep down I fear that someone would have this kind of power and control over me, and many of my biggest mistakes with people pertain to keeping up defenses against this).


Yeah, someone having that kind of power over you sounds pretty scary. 

This topic is pretty interesting, though! I don't think I'm an SX-dom myself, but I've always been a bit worried that if I were to enter a romantic relationship, I would transform into a possessive, green-eyed monster. But I think it can be good to look at the dark side of things (like this topic is doing with sx), because being aware of a problem makes it easier to get control of it (as long as you don't get over-cautious, haha).

Is it bad that reading this topic makes me want to write about an sx-dom, though? :tongue:


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## zallla (Oct 11, 2011)

kaleidoscope said:


> This is why I feel like, as much as Sx is described as smoldering, passionate, going-to-devour-your-soul-this-instant, it also makes up for an *insecure *individual, especially in intimate relationships.
> 
> Others adjectives should be attributed to Sx-doms for a change: restless, demanding, *high maintenance*, excessive. Stability does not satisfy us. Stagnancy terrifies us. We want that high, and when it's reached, we long for even higher. Some friends of mine have described their relationships with Sx-doms as "overwhelming", and they're left feeling like what's shared is never enough, that there's always more that could be explored. It sounds lovely, but it's also a LOT of work.


I think your observation is very accurate. What I've experienced is pretty similar.

I'm the kind of person who always has "a thing" going on. For me it's always THE THING though. There's just something I've set my eyes (and heart and brain and everything) on and I go all the way... until I don't, until something else has caught my eye instead. Stability has never been my goal, quite the contary actually, I don't like stability.

Many people never get this. Why can't I keep doing something "forever"? Why can't I limit it when I really like to do something? I wonder why should I. If I like something, I really like it. This can be seen in every area of my life. I have my favorites and I won't limit my enthusiasm about them. I'm only sad when they no longer satisfy me but even then I have just moved on. 

People don't see me as someone insecure, not especially about my looks. I often wear clothes my friends say they like but wouldn't dare to wear themselves. Still, underneath I'm slightly insecure about the way I look. This is greatest with my SO. With him I sometimes even stoop that low that I ask him what he'd like to see me wearing, what he finds sexy. For me personally, it's of utmost importance that he finds me attractive so I take that surprisingly seriously.

My SO is sx-last 146 (without spesifying the order) and nothing like that despite being so critical about himself otherwise. Sometimes it really amazes me. I do all I can to keep him interested, he does not, it's not where he focuses his attention and energy. Frankly I find him even stupid and naive because of that, it's so easy for me to have a wandering eye.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

kaleidoscope said:


> @Swordsman of Mana
> I type as Sx/So but I definitely feel like Sx is still disruptive. I often get described as having a very ON/OFF energy, and I can relate very much to this description particularly, despite not being Sx/Sp:
> Then again, I'm a 4, so I imagine I can be pretty withdrawn and removed when I feel out of touch with whatever's going on around me. I suppose overall, withdrawn types could relate to this description much more.


I related to 100% of that description :shocked:


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## Feathers Falling (Sep 5, 2012)

Maybe said:


> This is exactly what I am afraid of, when I start to get 'vulnerable' to someone and feel attached in a deeper way. I think part of the reason I imagine being subject to this sort of betrayal is because I am so aware of this potential in myself.


Hmm, I have the same worries.. because I know how volatile it can be being an Sx dom. But I will note that I never get bored with 7s or 8s. There's always plenty going on in those relationships ^_^


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## Doll (Sep 6, 2012)

Despite the sx/so being called an archetypal "rockstar", I'm a relatively unobtrusive person in general, although when I "hone in" on someone, I become incredibly intense. I also relate to having more of a "smooth" energy in social settings, easily able to go in and out of conversation with relative ease. However, my mind is always on the sexual instinct and what comes with it - connection, intensity, strong/controversial subjects, ect. I have a difficult time not interjecting my opinion if I feel strongly about something, or sometimes I'll even zone out and start thinking about an earlier connection/experience/sensation and tune out everything around me because of boredom, disinterest, or whatever. I have the fire of the sexual instinct, but it's more subtle - an indicator of my gut fix (9) and head fix (7); at least that's how I interpret it. 

The dark side is easy for me to see. The phrase "the grass is always greener" is hard to remember if I'm wanting something to be different, or envious of something someone else has that I don't have (whether it be material or otherwise - although it's almost always otherwise, like a skill I want to covet). There's a constant emptiness I'm always seeking to fill and an inner sense of restlessness - as though I'm looking for something. Although I have the sense that no matter what I find, it wouldn't be whatever it is I'm looking for. It's a very frustrating experience, like fighting to swim upstream - taking one step forward and two steps back. The sexual instinct is like the bane of my existence, yet something I don't want to live without. It's a fatal flaw.

It even gets to the point where, if I don't find a way to satisfy the sx-instinct in every faucet of my life, I become disengaged from reality and driven to create my own fantasy world (through writing) so that I can fulfill it. My relationship always has to be exciting. My friendships tend to go on the back-burner. My career has to excite me because I spend most of my life doing it, which is why I'm so intent on doing something that forces me to experience a rush of emotional adrenaline (investigative work). But what if it doesn't happen? Will I still be satisfied? What if it DOES happen? ...Will I be satisfied? 

It's like working against the tide or trying to reach a mirage in the desert. 

Satisfaction just doesn't exist.


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## Animal (May 29, 2012)

Doll said:


> It even gets to the point where, if I don't find a way to satisfy the sx-instinct in every faucet of my life, I become disengaged from reality and driven to create my own fantasy world (through writing) so that I can fulfill it.


Yes. Yes. yes.Yes,yes[gasm].


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Doll said:


> Despite the sx/so being called an archetypal "rockstar", I'm a relatively unobtrusive person in general, although when I "hone in" on someone, I become incredibly intense. I also relate to having more of a "smooth" energy in social settings, easily able to go in and out of conversation with relative ease. However, my mind is always on the sexual instinct and what comes with it - connection, intensity, strong/controversial subjects, ect. I have a difficult time not interjecting my opinion if I feel strongly about something, or sometimes I'll even zone out and start thinking about an earlier connection/experience/sensation and tune out everything around me because of boredom, disinterest, or whatever. I have the fire of the sexual instinct, but it's more subtle - an indicator of my gut fix (9) and head fix (7); at least that's how I interpret it.
> 
> The dark side is easy for me to see. The phrase "the grass is always greener" is hard to remember if I'm wanting something to be different, or envious of something someone else has that I don't have (whether it be material or otherwise - although it's almost always otherwise, like a skill I want to covet). There's a constant emptiness I'm always seeking to fill and an inner sense of restlessness - as though I'm looking for something. Although I have the sense that no matter what I find, it wouldn't be whatever it is I'm looking for. It's a very frustrating experience, like fighting to swim upstream - taking one step forward and two steps back. The sexual instinct is like the bane of my existence, yet something I don't want to live without. It's a fatal flaw.
> 
> ...


goddamn it, this thread is making me reconsider Sx/Sp again.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> goddamn it, this thread is making me reconsider Sx/Sp again.


Yes,yes, you should. I think sx/sp is more appropriate for you than sp/sx.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

LeaT said:


> Yes,yes, you should. I think sx/sp is more appropriate for you than sp/sx.


looking at them, the Sx and Sp are about equal for me, but I have trouble seeing an ENFP Sx dom 7 mistyping as Sp because ENFP and 7 are already practically the opposite of Sp while fitting nicely with Sx =) who knows, maybe my ego is getting in the way because being an Sp dom ENFP makes me feel special. wanting to be an Sx dom just seems too "main stream".
the only three cases I could see for me being Sx are
1) if I am actually socionics Gamma, as you think I am (the Gamma Quadra in general all seem Sp/Sx as hell)
2) I seem Sp because I am a recluse when I am in reality a frustrated Sx dom who is simply in "off" mode until he finds something worthy of connecting with. 
3) I idolize Sp/Sx because my best friend is one and they seem like the most powerful/in control

in all seriousness though
- I have never heard of an Sx dom 7 who hates roller coasters and thrill seeking (seems to be the main theme of Sx 7 actually). I love interpersonal and musical intensity, but I absolutely abhor the physical intensity that Sx 7s tend to crave (even if the descriptions of them make them all seem ES?P 7w8 Sx/So) 
- neither have I met an Sx dom 7 who is naturally good at saving money (even if what I save it for is Sx as hell)
- I lecture the shit out of people for Sp blunders. 
- I am a capitalist pig, so I must be Sp 

your thoughts are welcome, but it would be best if we did so here:
http://personalitycafe.com/whats-my-enneagram-type/109742-damnit-i-might-sx-dom-5.html
@kaleidoscope
sorry for the derail
@OT
sometimes I envy my ENTJ 8w7 Sp/Sx~Ascetic (Sp/Sx with weak Sx when compared with Sp/Sx~Decadent which has strong Sx) best friend because he is able to view relationships so realistically. he enjoys romance and passion, but he's told me explicitly that they are simply a nice to have. the most important things for him when finding a wife are
- she shares his values and has good character
- she will take care of herself and age well 
- they get along as a part and work well together
- she is intelligent and competent 
- there is mutual respect (though I don't see him having difficulty finding this. he simply walks away when people disrespect him continually and cuts them off)
if his relationship with his wife is not passionate and romantic, it's only a small loss in his eyes. on the other hand, I have a bias to think that every successful relationship should be brimming with fire and passion (in fact, I probably use the word "fiery" in 1/3 of all my posts here) and it totally gets in the way when I'm trying to find a mate who I will actually function well with. I guess I'm envious because the way he views intimacy just makes him so much more emotionally _independent_. he views romance and intense intimacy as a luxury product that he indulges when possible but can do without. I view it as a dietary staple that I am starved of (in stereotypically NFP fashion, I still have romantic fantasies like a little girl, crave affection and cuddle with a goddamn pillow when falling asleep at night. still, we're comparing an ENFP 7 Beta NF with a ENTJ 8-5-3 Gamma NT. even an Sx/So with that would still be pretty Sp-ish)

other good example of less Sx heavy people viewing relationships more realistically are my Sx last parents (INFJ 9w1>5w4>2w1 Sp/So and ESFJ 2w1>1w2>6w7 So/Sp). their relationship isn't as "glamorous" or ardent as the fireworks passion of an Sx dom couple, but they have a very loving relationship in their own way. truth be told, they're really more like "partners" than anything else. they have a completely different type of bond which, while foreign to me, is much more low maintenance than any aspect of my love life has ever been (though part of this is age. I'm 21, so of course my love life is going to be more tumultuous than a couple of 20+ years). they're more like friends who quietly support each other and virtually never argue (which, growing up, I thought was the norm lol).


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## Doll (Sep 6, 2012)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> goddamn it, this thread is making me reconsider Sx/Sp again.


Omg was it something I said?? :laughing:


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## meridannight (Nov 23, 2012)

Doll said:


> It's like working against the tide or trying to reach a mirage in the desert.
> 
> Satisfaction just doesn't exist.


but you still get the rush out of chasing it. once you obtain it there is no more rush. though knowing this doesn't deter me from obtaining the object of desire. something new is always just around the corner and the whole process starts all over again.


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## He's a Superhero! (May 1, 2013)

Very interesting read.

I'm a SX/SP and I know that when I visit a friend I actually get annoyed if they invite other people over, or if others turn up. I like one-on-one time with each of my friends individually, but sometimes it's nice getting everyone together as well (just not all the time).

After reading through this thread, I have to ask - being a person who likes to focus on the positive, and helping others...what are the steps to self-improvement here? What can help a SX-dom to stop being obsessed about one person?


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## meridannight (Nov 23, 2012)

NinthTome said:


> I'm a SX/SP and I know that when I visit a friend I actually get annoyed if they invite other people over, or if others turn up. I like one-on-one time with each of my friends individually, but sometimes it's nice getting everyone together as well (just not all the time).


lol. exactly. 

i thought it was weird i felt this way, but it's like we have our own personal private atmosphere/setting going on. and adding outsiders to it will ruin it. then again, if they come and are able to create an atmosphere of their own that is also enjoyable, then it's ok.


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## Animal (May 29, 2012)

I enjoy having more than one friend over at a time, and I tend to stay fairly quiet & watch them interact or just fade in and out. I also like having group chats and jumping in and out when I feel like it, but not feeling pressured by the immediacy of one on one conversation. Sometimes I like to be free to just stick in my own head, but I still want to be around friends.

However, I also crave SX bonding time with certain people. And I don't like it when someone invites someone else over because I am not as into other people's friends as I am into my own friends. If it's me who invites everyone, or if I am close with all parties and established an SX bond in the past, then it's cool. I've been part of "groups of friends" before, but I meet each person first and introduce everyone. Under those conditions, I'm pretty indifferent about how many of us are there at a time.

I also really like going out alone. Going out to bars or parties with a friend or a group feels binding to me. I prefer taking nature walks with friends to catch up, but going out on my own time, on my own terms, by myself. This way I can leave whenever I want, I can leave WITH whoever I want, I can bond with whoever I want and I don't have someone thinking I owe them something because we went out together. I don't have to wait for their ass to order their last drink or finish flirting. When friends ask me to go out my response is, "Maybe I'll show up." Unless, of course, I'm trying to get in their pants. roud:


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## zallla (Oct 11, 2011)

Maybe said:


> I enjoy having more than one friend over at a time, and I tend to stay fairly quiet & watch them interact or just fade in and out. I also like having group chats and jumping in and out when I feel like it, but not feeling pressured by the immediacy of one on one conversation. Sometimes I like to be free to just stick in my own head, but I still want to be around friends.
> 
> However, I also crave SX bonding time with certain people. And I don't like it when someone invites someone else over because I am not as into other people's friends as I am into my own friends. If it's me who invites everyone, or if I am close with all parties and established an SX bond in the past, then it's cool. I've been part of "groups of friends" before, but I meet each person first and introduce everyone. Under those conditions, I'm pretty indifferent about how many of us are there at a time.


Good observations! This made me think I can be a really dull person when I'm just not into someone. I was once introduced to this friend of my own friend and she was so dull that I completely ignored their discussion and just immersed in anything else I happened to find interesting in that situation. Some time after that I was introduced to the sister of this same friend and we _totally _got along! I think we even forgot her sister and my friend while we were so enthusiastic about each other xD Things like that happen to me easily, either I'm on or then I'm off. But unlike you, I cannot see myself enjoying the role of the observer if the situation is interesting. Honestly, especially nowadays I tend to be the most active and enthusiastic person and could even lead the discussion 




> I also really like going out alone. Going out to bars or parties with a friend or a group feels binding to me. I prefer taking nature walks with friends to catch up, but going out on my own time, on my own terms, by myself. This way I can leave whenever I want, I can leave WITH whoever I want, I can bond with whoever I want and I don't have someone thinking I owe them something because we went out together. I don't have to wait for their ass to order their last drink or finish flirting. When friends ask me to go out my response is, "Maybe I'll show up." Unless, of course, I'm trying to get in their pants. roud:


Yeah, I know what you mean, I really really relate to that! I love spending at least most of my free time alone because of all the freedom, I just want to avoid limiting myself and my life and what I'd want to do. Doing what I want by myself definitely has its benefits. One reason why I have started to think I've had _way_ too idealistic impression of having children! I used to think how great and much fun that would be, all the things I could do with them, but nowadays I've come into the conclusion that I don't actually even want children for many years at least. There's just SO much more than mum that I want to be and do that I really don't want to get into that now.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet but, I hate the fact that I need so much attention. I put out all this energy screaming "look at me!" "I want to taste your energy!" why can't I just happy with the ordinary things in life? why does everything need to be so goddamn dramatic and over the top for me to be feel stimulated and satisfied?
imagine being on an operating table. you lay their feeling lifeless until the doctor performs cardiac resuscitation. this is what being Sx dom feels like. if you're not getting charged by some sort of energy source, you feel numb, almost dead, but when that energy source comes, you feel alive again, charged and invigorated.....then it passes and you need another charge to get you up again. 
of all three instincts, Sx is by far the most high maintenance and most difficult to truly satisfy. it always wants more, it's extremely picky (particularly when you combine it with ENFP and E7) and the resources required to satisfy it are scarce. just look at the dating scene for instance. you have to ask
- are they attractive?
- are they single?
- are they the right orientation?
- are they the right age?
- do they live near you?
....THEN you actually have a chance once you've filtered it down this far (and filtered out 97%+ of the population in the process). at this point, setting up dates, putting your best foot forward and getting to know them is even more work, followed by even more once you are in an actual relationship (in which it becomes difficult to sustain romantic activity once kids enter the mix)....being someone who prioritizes energetic connection, romance and relationships so highly means burning a lot of physical, emotional and sometimes financial resources that other types can allocate towards creating a stable living condition (which, regardless of your instinctual variants, is the spring board from which you can get what you really want. Sp, Sx and So needs all become easier to meet with a stable income and home)


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## frenchie (Jul 7, 2011)

I have a friend that i think is Sx/So type 7.

Love the dude and he has many good friends.

The problem that i see over and over again is a lack of a bone of self preservation. He's reckless, stays up late, and for lack of a better word, "Is a star that burns really hot and fizzles out."

I had a long talk to him about how his decisions now can potentially lead him to a place where he'll be leading a substandard life. He has big aspirations but fails to see the next step in attaining those.

It's all fun and games. I think i drove him away after that because i don't see him often anymore. Sad,, i hope for the best but my bar for humanity is set very low.

Not to mention his girlfriend is easily a solid 9. But damn, i'm curious how long those gina tingles will last before she gets pissed at his inability to manage his life.

Man has charisma up the @$$.


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## Dyidia (May 28, 2010)

NinthTome said:


> After reading through this thread, I have to ask - being a person who likes to focus on the positive, and helping others...what are the steps to self-improvement here? What can help a SX-dom to stop being obsessed about one person?


Best answer I've been able to come up with is "get obsessed with your own creative flow." Or some other personal activity that's really intense and charging. I always try to maintain an agenda that isn't reliant on other people.

I'd also invite you to consider what it would mean to stop being obsessed with a given person. Maybe it's my bias, but I think going from being obsessed with someone to not obsessed out of a desire for improvement is ultimately a course in dissatisfaction.


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## d e c a d e n t (Apr 21, 2013)

@Swordsman of Mana
Ah yeah, I imagine finding someone is even worse if you're homosexual.^^; 
There aren't other ways you could get outlets for your sx, though? Creating something (depending on your interests) can feel quite satisfying.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

@mimesis
I agree, though I think the craving what one desires and craving to be desired are two sides of the same coin. in my case, I exhibit both strongly (hello! sexual 7! of course I crave indulging my desires strongly :laughing: ), though the craving to be desired is, as you said, probably a larger contributor of stress.


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## mimesis (Apr 10, 2012)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> @_mimesis_
> I agree, though I think the craving what one desires and craving to be desired are two sides of the same coin. in my case, I exhibit both strongly (hello! sexual 7! of course I crave indulging my desires strongly :laughing: ), though the craving to be desired is, as you said, probably a larger contributor of stress.


Yes, I have both as well, although I wouldn't say they're equally divided for me. But I know from experience, when a woman is predominantly on the 'to be desired' end of the continuum, on the longer term it doesn't work out all right for me, no matter how pretty and desirable she is.


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## Animal (May 29, 2012)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> @_mimesis_
> I agree, though I think the craving what one desires and craving to be desired are two sides of the same coin. in my case, I exhibit both strongly (hello! sexual 7! of course I crave indulging my desires strongly :laughing: ), though the craving to be desired is, as you said, probably a larger contributor of stress.





mimesis said:


> Yes, I have both as well, although I wouldn't say they're equally divided for me. But I know from experience, when a woman is predominantly on the 'to be desired' end of the continuum, on the longer term it doesn't work out all right for me, no matter how pretty and desirable she is.


I can be very turned on by a good chase- but the minute someone outwardly rejects me, or chooses someone else over me, I actually lose interest. Some people tell me this is healthy and I'm lucky? I'm also not turned on by someone else's boyfriend, no matter how hot he is. I can look at him as "ooh, that would be pretty to photograph" but that's it. Same goes for gay men. 

It's not like I reason this stuff out in a heart vs. head scenario. My heart actually shuts off when I'm rejected or replaced, and almost nothing I do can turn it back on. So I guess you could say, on a carnal level, someone who desires me, and me alone, is a turn-on. I can be turned on if a situation isn't monogamous, but I need to know he's dedicated to me over everyone else, otherwise my heart just closes off. SX and SP instinct, both strong.


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

@_Maybe_ Interesting points I can never stay attracted to anyone who isn't attracted to me. I lose interest in an instant when my "intensity" or "love" or what have you is not reciprocated. I don't know what 'unrequited love' means. I am very on/off. I either want someone or I couldn't give less of a fuck. Exclusivity is absolutely essential. I can't stand divided attention, let alone total inattentiveness. A taken man doesn't doesn't do much for me because- 1. it's a respect thing and 'possessiveness' of my own prideful as opposed to insecure variety- thing. 2. i can never play second fiddle to another woman. hell, i can't play second fiddle to anyone even in a friendship. And yeah, as I said, I am very on/off. If I don't share that "fire" with a person, they're not at my "level" and they just don't have what it takes to meet my intensity. I keep most people at arms length, subconsciously, and in large parts, this has to do with the fact that they just can't take the heat. This is either plain annoying to me or it makes me lose respect for them because I see them as a waste of my damn time. 

I have a smouldering, exceedingly passionate nature that scares the shit out of people unless they can either handle it because they're similar or they have a built in capacity to not just withstand but enjoy my demand for fervour and my uncompromising desires. I have strong Sp and Sx.


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## mimesis (Apr 10, 2012)

hey @_Boss_ ! I like your avatar :laughing:


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

mimesis said:


> hey @_Boss_ ! I like your avatar :laughing:


<333 One of my favourite scenes eva! You have to take it out of context (domestic abuse) or it loses sexy points. But hot damn! he's so hot. And, she seems so in control walking down the stairs. 

And lolz, yeah I like my avatar too.


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## d e c a d e n t (Apr 21, 2013)

Maybe said:


> I can be very turned on by a good chase- but the minute someone outwardly rejects me, or chooses someone else over me, I actually lose interest. Some people tell me this is healthy and I'm lucky? I'm also not turned on by someone else's boyfriend, no matter how hot he is. I can look at him as "ooh, that would be pretty to photograph" but that's it. Same goes for gay men.


That does sound healthy. It's no good wanting what you can't have. For myself, I think it'd take more of a conscious effort to repress. :tongue:


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## mimesis (Apr 10, 2012)

Maybe said:


> I can be very turned on by a good chase- but the minute someone outwardly rejects me, or chooses someone else over me, I actually lose interest. Some people tell me this is healthy and I'm lucky? I'm also not turned on by someone else's boyfriend, no matter how hot he is. I can look at him as "ooh, that would be pretty to photograph" but that's it. Same goes for gay men.
> 
> It's not like I reason this stuff out in a heart vs. head scenario. My heart actually shuts off when I'm rejected or replaced, and almost nothing I do can turn it back on. So I guess you could say, on a carnal level, someone who desires me, and me alone, is a turn-on. I can be turned on if a situation isn't monogamous, but I need to know he's dedicated to me over everyone else, otherwise my heart just closes off. SX and SP instinct, both strong.


If it isn't requited it's no use putting more energy into it, I agree. I don't have the demand or condition to be the only one, or number one. I'd like to be the best of course heheh. But I can't demand that. I would need to earn that. I just look at what is between me and another person, and I don't feel the urge to compare it with others. I have the same with friendship. I used to be extremely jealous though.


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## Animal (May 29, 2012)

Boss said:


> @_Maybe_ Interesting points I can never stay attracted to anyone who isn't attracted to me. I lose interest in an instant when my "intensity" or "love" or what have you is not reciprocated. I don't know what 'unrequited love' means. I am very on/off. I either want someone or I couldn't give less of a fuck. Exclusivity is absolutely essential. I can't stand divided attention, let alone total inattentiveness. A taken man doesn't doesn't do much for me because- 1. it's a respect thing and 'possessiveness' of my own prideful as opposed to insecure variety- thing. 2. i can never play second fiddle to another woman. hell, i can't play second fiddle to anyone even in a friendship. And yeah, as I said, I am very on/off. If I don't share that "fire" with a person, they're not at my "level" and they just don't have what it takes to meet my intensity. I keep most people at arms length, subconsciously, and in large parts, this has to do with the fact that they just can't take the heat. This is either plain annoying to me or it makes me lose respect for them because I see them as a waste of my damn time.
> 
> I have a smouldering, exceedingly passionate nature that scares the shit out of people unless they can either handle it because they're similar or they have a built in capacity to not just withstand but enjoy my demand for fervour and my uncompromising desires. I have strong Sp and Sx.


Damn.. you're hot. 










That being said, I can relate. Take all of me or take nothing.


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## brittauzenne (Feb 8, 2013)

my take on the energies

sexuals- obsessive and addictive yet energetic and buzzy
socials- warm and affectionate and the most welcoming of the energies imo
self pres's- emotionally insulated, goal oriented and focused on making a life and shit


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## Inguz (Mar 10, 2012)

kaleidoscope said:


> Others adjectives should be attributed to Sx-doms for a change: restless, demanding, *high maintenance*, excessive. Stability does not satisfy us. Stagnancy terrifies us. We want that high, and when it's reached, we long for even higher.


Dunno, this quote in particular sounds more like 4-ish insecurities (stress line to 2) and emotion-junkie as most non Sx-dom 4s are. Even Sp 4 acts this way.


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## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

Inguz said:


> Dunno, this quote in particular sounds more like 4-ish insecurities (stress line to 2) and emotion-junkie as most non Sx-dom 4s are. Even Sp 4 acts this way.


Where is the emotional junkie part? I bet Sx 7s, 8s, 6s and even 3s would be able to relate to constantly wanting more and being excessive, as well as restless.


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## Inguz (Mar 10, 2012)

kaleidoscope said:


> Where is the emotional junkie part? I bet Sx 7s, 8s, 6s and even 3s would be able to relate to constantly wanting more and being excessive, as well as restless.


For me the "neurotic" Sx instinct has been about wanting to feel close to and needed by someone. As good as all my exes have been enneagram 4 with low self-esteem as the clingy, needy, demanding and high maintenance behaviour makes me feel wanted. I have recently learned that it's a defense mechanism in me that wants to project that as "then I'm not the one getting hurt if a relationship ends" as my partner then needs me more than I need her, or so I would like to think for myself. They haven't been very healthy relationships, but I have a lot of first hand experience of E4 emotionally manipulative, needy, clingy and demanding behaviour. It's a shitstorm of emotions, and that is exactly why I call an E4 in the stress line to E2 for emotional junkie.


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## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

Inguz said:


> For me the "neurotic" Sx instinct has been about wanting to feel close to and needed by someone. As good as all my exes have been enneagram 4 with low self-esteem as the clingy, needy, demanding and high maintenance behaviour makes me feel wanted. I have recently learned that it's a defense mechanism in me that wants to project that as "then I'm not the one getting hurt if a relationship ends" as my partner then needs me more than I need her, or so I would like to think for myself. They haven't been very healthy relationships, but I have a lot of first hand experience of E4 emotionally manipulative, needy, clingy and demanding behaviour. It's a shitstorm of emotions, and that is exactly why I call an E4 in the stress line to E2 for emotional junkie.


I wasn't addressing that at all in my post(s), though. I didn't talk about unhealthy extremes, I was talking about average health. Manipulative, clingy, needy can exist in any type and doesn't necessarily have to do with Sx doms. 

Some people can be high maintenance and demanding, yet recognize that side of them and not act on it. I personally don't do the emotional outbursts, crying and begging, throwing objects kind of nonsense. I control myself, I always try to be reasonable, I work on myself.. I'm not sure the same can be said for unhealthy individuals. Regardless, Sx doms can be overwhelming in always trying to maintain the intensity of the connection.


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## Inguz (Mar 10, 2012)

kaleidoscope said:


> I wasn't addressing that at all in my post(s), though. I didn't talk about unhealthy extremes, I was talking about average health. Manipulative, clingy, needy can exist in any type *and doesn't necessarily have to do with Sx doms.*


Bold - that was my point. I'm quoting you here: "_Others adjectives should be attributed to Sx-doms for a change: restless, demanding, *high maintenance*, excessive._"
It's not adjectives that needs to be connected to Sx dom. High maintenance that you put in bold, italic and underline is very much a 4 thing regardless of instinct stack.


kaleidoscope said:


> Some people can be high maintenance and demanding, yet recognize that side of them and not act on it. I personally don't do the emotional outbursts, crying and begging, throwing objects kind of nonsense. I control myself, I always try to be reasonable, I work on myself.. I'm not sure the same can be said for unhealthy individuals. Regardless, Sx doms can be overwhelming in always trying to maintain the intensity of the connection.


I can't think of a single 4 I have known that has ever begged me. It shows itself in more subtly manipulative ways. The hardest part is becoming aware of your own behaviour. And again, "trying to maintain the intensity of the connection" is very much a "insecure 4" thing to write, as I already have stated.


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## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

Inguz said:


> And again, "trying to maintain the intensity of the connection" is very much a "insecure 4" thing to write, as I already have stated.


Your bias against 4s, along with calling me insecure, makes it impossible to have a constructive discussion with you. I'm not interested in indulging your need to provoke others.


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## Inguz (Mar 10, 2012)

@kaleidoscope I can elaborate a bit more. The 4 insecurity is based around not feeling that people will accept the 4. Being demanding, manipulative and all that is a way for a 4 to get the attention that they think that they otherwise won't get, because who will accept them with all their flaws and faults that is carefully hidden away inside? This is at the core of 4 and while Sx dominant will amplify this, it is in no way limited to it.


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## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

Inguz said:


> @_kaleidoscope_ I can elaborate a bit more. The 4 insecurity is based around not feeling that people will accept the 4. Being demanding, manipulative and all that is a way for a 4 to get the attention that they think that they otherwise won't get, because who will accept them with all their flaws and faults that is carefully hidden away inside? This is at the core of 4 and while Sx dominant will amplify this, it is in no way limited to it.


Eh.. I don't relate. The way I get attention is by projecting a more pleasant, alluring persona, based on how different/special I am. I know myself and others enough to realize that being demanding and manipulative will only damage the relationship. The only reason I actually _can _come across as demanding is when I feel like the relationship is slowly settling into comfort and monotony, and that's when I can be frustrated and dissatisfied (so more for Sx reasons than 4ish ones).

You're right to say that Sx exacerbates a lot of 4 characteristics, but I don't agree that 4s are inherently needy and manipulative to seek love/attention - unless unhealthy. I should also add that the few moments where I feel like voicing my frustration about the lack of intensity, I end up feeling very self-conscious and wanting to hide, because I worry about how it would change my SO's perception of me. So again, I don't relate.


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## Inguz (Mar 10, 2012)

kaleidoscope said:


> Eh.. I don't relate. The way I get attention is by projecting a more pleasant, alluring persona, based on how different/special I am. I know myself and others enough to realize that being demanding and manipulative will only damage the relationship. The only reason I actually _can _come across as demanding is when I feel like the relationship is slowly settling into comfort and monotony, and that's when I can be frustrated and dissatisfied (so more for Sx reasons than 4ish ones).
> 
> You're right to say that Sx exacerbates a lot of 4 characteristics, but I don't agree that 4s are inherently needy and manipulative to seek love/attention - unless unhealthy. I should also add that the few moments where I feel like voicing my frustration about the lack of intensity, I end up feeling very self-conscious and wanting to hide, because I worry about how it would change my SO's perception of me. So again, I don't relate.


The projection of a 4 is that people will not accept you for who you are, so instead of being a rejected noone, rather be a rejected _someone_, right? I'm writing about unhealthy 4 behaviour, when a 4 genuinely feels worthy of love the projection is broken and the need for being demanding can stop as self-esteem comes from the inside and not from receiving affection on the outside.

Would I be wrong to assume that such worry comes from a fear of your SO either rejecting you or not accepting you? Don't get me wrong, a desire for intensity can be fully appropriate, but your worry is nothing but a ghost in your head.


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## mimesis (Apr 10, 2012)

Inguz said:


> For me the "neurotic" Sx instinct has been about wanting to feel close to and needed by someone. As good as all my exes have been enneagram 4 with low self-esteem as the clingy, needy, demanding and high maintenance behaviour makes me feel wanted. I have recently learned that it's a defense mechanism in me that wants to project that as "then I'm not the one getting hurt if a relationship ends" as my partner then needs me more than I need her, or so I would like to think for myself. They haven't been very healthy relationships, but I have a lot of first hand experience of E4 emotionally manipulative, needy, clingy and demanding behaviour. It's a shitstorm of emotions, and that is exactly why I call an E4 in the stress line to E2 for emotional junkie.


It's funny you state it like that...



The Breakup Cleanse said:


> *Whereas avoidant individuals use sex as a kind of control or proof of their attractiveness or status, anxious individuals use sex as a proof of the partner’s commitment to them.*
> (...)
> They have a strong desire for partners or friends to reciprocate. They desire extensive contact and declarations of affections and are preoccupied with and depend on the relationship or friendship. The relationship or friendship is the primary means by which they can experience a sense of security and a sense of self. (...)
> When in a relationship, the anxious type tends to control the other person’s behavior in subtle or not so subtle ways. For example, he or she may attempt to make the other person feel guilty for not spending enough time with them. They are quick to express jealousy, which is another way to attempt to make the other person spend more time with them.
> The Anxious Attachment Style | The Breakup Cleanse


I can see how that may lead to a strong need to be needed, and codependent behavior. Besides, I spend 10 years with a 4w3 7w8 1w9 SxSo. That's triple Frustration! (object relation), so it's hard to say whether the high maintenance was due to being Sx-dom. Lack of sexual intensity or satisfaction was n e v e r an issue though. Jealousy was, very much so, although this was more cyclical than on a daily basis, and I'm inclined to see this more within the realm of Sp and need for security (or perhaps e4sp reckless emotional masochism?), as this often happened after peaking in terms of relationship happiness and spiritual satisfaction.


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## brittauzenne (Feb 8, 2013)

is being naturally addictive dark?? I guess it is..but Im not too sure about ugly. I dont think Id trade my being a sexual as its a rush. I dont know what else there is of course


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