# NTP or NFP? You decide.



## 68097 (Nov 20, 2013)

*What makes me doubt my type?*

Over-thinking it. I’m fairly confident in being Ne-Si and I really struggle to stay in a routine, get bored very easily, and need constant mental stimulation to be happy, so I’m thinking NP. I also think I’m an extrovert, considering my tendency to get melancholy when I’m left alone too long… and whenever company leaves, I immediately log on and hope to find a friend online to talk to! 

BUT… I am not sure if I am Fi-Te or Ti-Fe (ENFP, or ENTP). I understand the concepts in theory but feel like I’m not a good judge of my own behavior. As for my reasons for wanting to find out my true type… I like to be “right,” and I don’t want to label myself something I am not (thus, misrepresenting both myself and the type on the whole to other people). I can identify with both Fi and Ti, which makes me indecisive on a firm conclusion on just one (every time I reach a firm conclusion, I start to doubt it).

*Here are a few things that make me think Fe: *

+ my tendency to use “we” and “us,” which an INTJ once told me is a Fe-indicator (of course, he may or may not have known what he was talking about, or if he himself even was an INTJ)

+ my tendency to seek others’ opinions on things, and about my conclusions too; I suspect, if there was a general consensus about my type, that I would feel more comfortable presenting myself with it

+ my tendency to be somewhat outwardly emotional; I tend to invest in the moment, empathize with other people (and fictional characters) and cry way more often than I would like (I cry over “Harry Potter,” “The Vampire Diaires,” that moment when Maleficent wakes up without her wings… basically any big emotional scene, and I cry)

+ breaking up in a relationship, I tend to care less about myself (often, I am strangely detached emotionally from people, and they like me more than I like them) than the other person’s feelings; I don’t want to hurt them, but I don’t want to lead them on, either

*But, there are also some Fi indicators:*

+ I do believe in moral absolutes (granted, my moral beliefs are gleaned from an outside source – the Bible, which could be Si and Fe related, I suppose), and there are certain things that go so against my moral principles that I would never, ever do them

+ I have a fiercely independent streak and resent anyone trying to control me, overriding me on decisions that we ought to make together, or thinking they know the “real” me; I have a tendency to defend other people who want to take an individualist route in life, within reason (the one time I really butted heads with an ESFJ was when she kept haranguing her ENFP daughter to go to college, even though the girl didn’t want to… it annoyed me that the ENFP had no real say in the matter)

+ Even though I cry fairly often, I really don’t know that I emote all that much (which, I understand, could be a lower-Fe thing too…)

+ My Fe-dom friend says she senses Fi in my determination to remain "true to my art," and my encouragement of her to stop over-thinking what people will say about her books, because "some things need to be said," and society "needs to be shaken up a bit"

Whereas Ti could be seen in my over-analyzing myself, I could also argue Te in my ability to get things done, follow lists, and my attentiveness to time management. It feels “stifling” to me and it makes me anxious, but I know how long it takes to get wherever I am going and always leave in plenty of time to get there at the appointed time. 

*Primary argument against ENTP that is holding me back*: their attraction to impartial systems. They tend to be presented as inventors and think-tanks, and I really don’t consider myself to be either one. I suck at math and only have marginal interest in science. In school, I was way more interested in history (still am), people’s lives (I still read biographies with much interest), and writing (which I still do, but often I worry my writing isn’t “warm” enough). I don't know if this an ENTP trait or not, but I often want an example when dealing with an idea, to gain a better understanding of the idea. I've run into the problem before of INTPs talking in abstracts and I'm not always sure I am understanding them correctly; but I am also good at simplifying material, so who knows? I was also a very thoughtful child, and kind, the sort of child who didn't want to stuffed animals to feel left out. Plus, I tend to get anxiety when there is emotional angst going on; I really don't like or seek out conflict.

*Primary argument against ENFP that is holding me back*: even though I am a little spontaneous in my decisions, I don’t think that most of them are made based on emotion. The most reckless I ever am is in buying something on impulse; but even if the impulse is there, I still go back and forth mentally as I stand there holding it my hand, trying to decide if I need it, want it, if it is wasting money, or if I want to invest in other things like it (such as: the first season of a TV show). Growing up, I usually went more for what I think is a logical approach rather than a romantic one: watching costume dramas, if one particular guy was kind and wealthy, I thought it was stupid if the girl followed her heart to a penniless romantic instead (my reasoning was: he’s nice, and he can provide for you, so you can learn to love him!). I don’t mind individuality… so long as it doesn’t hurt other people; when it does, I tend to get annoyed over how inconveniently Person A is making life for Persons B-D.

*That being said, the questionnaire*: 

*0. Is there anything that may affect the way you answer the questions? For example, a stressful time, mental illness, medications, special life circumstances? Other useful information includes sex, age, and current state of mind.*

No. I’m in a fairly calm state of mind today, thanks in part to the aspirin I took to get rid of muscle pain.

*1. Click on this link: Flickr: Explore! Look at the random photo for about 30 seconds. Copy and paste it here, and write about your impression of it.*

https://www.flickr.com/photos/overdear/14843869078/in/explore-2014-08-25

(In case it doesn't link properly: the photo is of what I think is an Italian street, in black and white.)


The black and white reminds me of an old movie, but the modern van detracts from it. Lots of advertisements in… what is that, Italian? (Scenes from “The Godfather” just flashed into my head, and then “Bonjourno, Princessipa!”)

*2. You are with a group of people in a car, heading to a different town to see your favourite band/artist/musician. Suddenly, the car breaks down for an unknown reason in the middle of nowhere. What are your initial thoughts? What are your outward reactions?*

Knowing me, I spent all of last night thinking of the twenty ways this trip could go wrong. My first thought would be “Nooo…” Then I would climb out, wait for the hood to cool down, pop the trunk and ask if anyone knows anything about cars, because I sure don’t. If wiggling stuff didn’t work, I’d suggest calling for a tow truck / friend / family member to come pick us up and offer to buy them a concert ticket in exchange if we’re still going. (If not, I’ll be bummed about losing the $$ for the tickets.) 

*3. You somehow make it to the concert. The driver wants to go to the afterparty that was announced (and assure you they won't drink so they can drive back later). How do you feel about this party? What do you do?*

I did? Yay!! If I think the party will be fun, I’ll go just because I like to be around people. If anyone is waiting for me at home, I’ll call them to say what’s up and then again before we leave (I learned my lesson the last time… =P). But if there is any drinking going on, I’m driving on the way home (I don’t drink). 

*4. On the drive back, your friends are talking. A friend makes a claim that clashes with your current beliefs. What is your inward reaction? What do you outwardly say?*

Depends. If they are drunk off their asses, there’s no point in arguing with them. But let’s pretend they’re not: in that case, I would debate whether or not it is worth arguing about. Ten years ago, I would have absolutely argued with them about it, but as I have gotten older and less confrontational, I’m starting to see that people have different views based on their own unique life experiences, and before you shred someone for their beliefs, you should ask what experiences have shaped those beliefs. Understanding someone else is essential to bearing no resentment toward them if you happen to disagree on something. (In the past, I would have leapt to a biased conclusion and resented their view. Now, I might not agree with it, but I want to know what formed it.)

*5. What would you do if you actually saw/experienced something that clashes with your previous beliefs, experiences, and habits?*

Like what? That seems a broad question in need of a specific. My core religious beliefs don’t change, but the outer framework does whenever I encounter a new idea or philosophy that I think has merit, either spiritually or logically. If something contradicted my own experience, I would file that away in my information bank as another “possibility,” and mention it the next time we discussed possibilities framed around that idea or experience. My habits fluctuate anyway, so new experiences will have little impact; it’ll change my habits temporarily and then I’ll find something else to adapt to.

*6. What are some of your most important values? How did you come about determining them? How can they change?*

(I looked up “values” to determine its true meaning.) Morals. Ethics. Ideals. My morals, ethics, and ideals were shaped by my Christian faith growing up. I re-evaluated them as an adult, and the idea of God in general, and chose to keep them. My morals are derived from Jesus’ teachings about treating others how you would like to be treated, which means I would never intentionally harm another person (and I don’t want to, anyway). I continue to try and argue both sides, however, when it comes to faith… like, which is the bigger sin, to tell a truth that harms another person deeply, or lie to protect them from great harm? (Was Bonhoffer wrong to plan to murder Hitler? Were Christians wrong to hide, defy the authorities, and lie to protect the Jews? I think not.) 

*7. a) What about your personality most distinguishes you from everyone else? b) If you could change one thing about you personality, what would it be? Why?*

a) I like to think it’s my objectivity. I can see multiple sides of an argument, and am likely to argue that others give people who have hurt them the benefit of the doubt. I’m not much one for holding grudges, either, because once I get over the initial anger and start to think about their motivations, I can sort of see what framed their decision or accusation. (That being said, I don’t want much to do with people I’ve conflicted with violently; forgiving someone doesn’t mean the scars aren’t still there, or that you can “get along” now.) 

b) I would like to have greater self-confidence; I feel like I had it as a child (even though I was a bit shy) but then took so much criticism from different people that I became very insecure about how I interact with people, my bluntness, and even my ideas. I’m afraid of failing, of coming across a stupid, or not being able to handle a bad situation on my own (all irrational fears, but… I’m a 4x5 enneagram, so there you go). 

*8. How do you treat hunches or gut feelings? In what situations are they most often triggered?*

I usually question them. I don’t put much faith in them. I frame everything in “this might happen,” rather than “this will happen,” and I don’t like to assume just one thing about any situation or person. I do get “gut feelings” about people, though, that indicate to me whether or not they are trustworthy and I’m rarely wrong. I can’t tell you why at the time, but something about being around them gives me bad vibes. This usually manifests in me either liking someone or disliking them. The people I dislike the most often turn out to be the most untrustworthy. I’ve had that happen several times: twice with salespeople (one later turned out to be a thief and bipolar, the other was a mooch), and once with an online acquaintance whose behavior set off alarm bells. I started casting a suspicious eye in her direction and it ended with her blowing up, trying to slander me (probably to counter-act what she feared I was going to say about her), and having a totally irrational panic attack.

In that situation, I merely closed all communication ties with her and her friends and said nothing about it to our mutual group of acquaintances. When asked what had happened, because someone saw the other girl’s tirade and nothing from my end, I calmly explained what I thought had happened and that girl, and others, went on to defend me (and we became close friends). (This makes me wonder if it was a Fi-Te shutout and shutdown, but I’m not sure what I felt in that situation… anger at not being able to express myself, shocked at her emotional outburst, and upset at being maligned, but I don’t know that I was “hurt” by it. How do you even define “hurt”? In actions and tears, or in deep sorrow? I feel greater sorrow over the loss of a pet than anything anyone has ever said to me.)

*9. a) What activities energize you most? b) What activities drain you most? Why?*

Interesting discussions are the stuff of life to me. I’m most energized when I can communicate often to someone I like, and discuss all manner of things. Mundane tasks such as chores, homework, bookkeeping, or trying to balance my checkbook, drain me… as does being alone or focusing too much on myself. The more I think about myself, the more critical I am of myself, and the more melancholy I become.

*10. What do you repress about your outward behavior or internal thought process when around others? Why?*

I think I hold back from being too socially outgoing, because I was hurt several times growing up by other children. As a child, I was eager to be liked and to be included, but my tendency to speak my mind often caused emotional blow-ups that I was unequipped to handle, so I am more careful now of what I say. I think I come across as colder and more aloof a lot of the time than is my actual personality, and I’m not sure why I do it. I suspect it’s a protective mechanism, since I’ve grown rather unhappily accustomed to being the “substitute person” that people never think about including, until all other options are exhausted. (But there too, I can see where I do the same thing to people I find tedious, so I guess we all do it.)

If you read all of that... thank you. I appreciate it.


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## Satan Claus (Aug 6, 2013)

You sound like an ENTP to me. Just because you're poor at math doesn't mean you can't be an NT. MBTI is not about what you can and can't do, it's about how you think. You seem to have more of a concern for others feelings than yours but still apply logic which sounds like Ti/Fe.


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## Grain of Sugar (Sep 17, 2013)

My ethics are determined (not really^^)by Confucius' "treat others the way youd want to be treated" Recently I thought about Jesus stealing it bc Confucius lived years before him. ^^ 

However, I know this Fe/Fno clue, confusion stuff. Also the thought that it would not be possible to be a thinker having ethics w. emotions connected to them.

I now think it could be like that:

Fi seeks internal harmony. Means if belief and ones own actions fit together the Fi person feels inner satisfaction and is therefore independent of external judgements. I think Fi feels bad if the internal standard cannot be held. Feeling like a hypocrite or something "I dont care, because it feels righ"t. Also one of Fis fave sentences is "yeah, but your view is subjective. belief what you want" 
I have also heard "discussing about that is useless. own view ......" STJs mostly^^ "you are shoving your opinions down my throat" 

Fe is a lot more dependent. It does not mean Fe is doing what everyone does but struggle appears when the Fe user tries to do what is right (let s say for others) and the social environment that would not appreciate that I guess. So: for others< Fe > against others. Fe feels good in a circle with same minded people. Everyone has the same basic opinion, everything is fine. "One should/not" is often thought."objective, standard, others should also see it that way


For me, it is like I think and come to a conclusion about a topic where ethics are involved. I think. I am right. I think about it quite a lot and still… There is no way I could be wrong. But if others believe differently, I feel the need to check that other others also believe or believed my belief. "Everything is fine because these intelligent people share my opinion." 

Sorry if it does not help, is completly wrong or sth.


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## something987 (Jul 20, 2014)

2, 6, and 7 seem like good evidence for Ti-Fe. The last question could arguably be a Ne-Te loop, but I'm going to go with the majority on this and say ENTP.


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## Vegetables (Jun 22, 2014)

If I could see some pictures I can tell type for sure. I use a system called P2MR to type people based on biological features (Google it). It was developed by my INFJ friend. Iiterally the only inaccuracy it produces is with NF and their P/J, sometimes the NF makes the P/J silent.


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## 68097 (Nov 20, 2013)

> You sound like an ENTP to me. Just because you're poor at math doesn't mean you can't be an NT. MBTI is not about what you can and can't do, it's about how you think. You seem to have more of a concern for others feelings than yours but still apply logic which sounds like Ti/Fe.


True, but sometimes I get hung up on stereotypes! Ne-going-in-circles doesn't help either. Thanks for your thoughts!



BlueberryCupcake said:


> Fi seeks internal harmony. Means if belief and ones own actions fit together the Fi person feels inner satisfaction and is therefore independent of external judgements. I think Fi feels bad if the internal standard cannot be held. Feeling like a hypocrite or something "I dont care, because it feels righ"t. Also one of Fis fave sentences is "yeah, but your view is subjective. belief what you want"


Ah, but what "feels right" can often be morally wrong. It may "feel right" to cheat on someone, but is it still right if you are hurting someone else by doing it? It could also "feel right" to murder someone who has hurt someone you love; but is that right? 

Although, true, while views ARE subjective, I don't think that is an excuse to justify selfish behavior. (Just like how I think appreciation of art is subjective, it doesn't mean some art ought to be given a pass if it aims to be offensive...)

I enjoy being around like-minded people, and often conflict with non-like-minded people. I am willing to consider their position, but if their view conflicts with my personal moral beliefs, I will not accept it. I may _tolerate_ it, but I will not _adopt_ it.



Ksilva said:


> 2, 6, and 7 seem like good evidence for Ti-Fe. The last question could arguably be a Ne-Te loop, but I'm going to go with the majority on this and say ENTP.


Thanks for answering. 

In the past, I've considered my ability to organize others, assign things, alphabetize my movie collection, and keep track of time constraints and word limits as Te, but I suppose some of that could be Ti and environmental influences?

@ Vegetables 
Picture (the only one you're gonna get... I happen to hate photos of myself):









I'm not sure I believe in typing people based on appearances, but why not? I've always been curious.


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## Psychopomp (Oct 3, 2012)

Vegetables said:


> If I could see some pictures I can tell type for sure. I use a system called P2MR to type people based on biological features (Google it). It was developed by my INFJ friend. Iiterally the only inaccuracy it produces is with NF and their P/J, sometimes the NF makes the P/J silent.


If you hand me your palm I can tell you your future... for sure. It always works. Except when it doesn't.



angelcat said:


> Ah, but what "feels right" can often be morally wrong. It may "feel right" to cheat on someone, but is it still right if you are hurting someone else by doing it? It could also "feel right" to murder someone who has hurt someone you love; but is that right?


This is rather overtly an example of Fe asserting itself toward the object. That is, the tangible manifestation of ethics over the abstract impression. This is the very argument Fe has against Fi. 



angelcat said:


> Although, true, while views ARE subjective, I don't think that is an excuse to justify selfish behavior. (Just like how I think appreciation of art is subjective, it doesn't mean some art ought to be given a pass if it aims to be offensive...)
> 
> I enjoy being around like-minded people, and often conflict with non-like-minded people. I am willing to consider their position, but if their view conflicts with my personal moral beliefs, I will not accept it. I may _tolerate_ it, but I will not _adopt_ it.


Again, quite insidious in its focus on the object. All about what people do and your appropriate response to that which it renders. It's Fe. An ENFP, for example, would use Te instead to handle this sort of thing. They might say something like this:



some imaginary ENFP said:


> If it feels right, that's because it is right. And if someone did it, they probably had their reasons or they were being dumb. It's probably none of your business anyway, though. They need to work it out and they need to figure it out. If someone cheats on you, they don't love you.
> 
> People have a right to be selfish because sometimes you need to be selfish. People will just have to deal with it. If you offended by art, they why are you looking at it? Go somewhere else.
> 
> People are entitled to think whatever they want.. as long as they don't try to force me, then what do I care?


THAT is a Te (Fi/Te) response... one that I would expect from any real xxFP. That is how Te speaks for Fi. Pretty much always. Yours is a consideration of what or what not is 'suitable', as Jung says. Those paragraphs of yours quoted are unquestionably Fe. 

I didn't read all of the questionnaire, but will try to. From what I've read... but more from our extensive interactions, I am certain you are an Alpha. I think there is an argument for pretty much any Alpha type, and I am by no means certain that you are a conscious Ne (aka, I think there is a real likelihood that you are an SFJ)... but that is a moot point, really. I think the most likely option, really, is that you are just a 'generic' Alpha. Meaning that no type label will be more accurate than just calling you Alpha. 

I suspect that your efforts to prove that you are an Fi to me will be the result of over-analysis with an over-reliance on theorycrafting... aka, Ti. 




angelcat said:


> View attachment 184986


Pretty people who act shy about it are like people whose houses are spotless who apologize for how dirty they are.  So many people share this senseless neurosis... which is all the worse when it doesn't reflect reality.


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## 68097 (Nov 20, 2013)

arkigos said:


> This is rather overtly an example of Fe asserting itself toward the object. That is, the tangible manifestation of ethics over the abstract impression. This is the very argument Fe has against Fi.
> 
> Again, quite insidious in its focus on the object. All about what people do and your appropriate response to that which it renders. It's Fe. An ENFP, for example, would use Te instead to handle this sort of thing. They might say something like this...


So, saying, "That piece of art is offensive, because it's made out of dog dung and is of the Virgin Mary" is Fe? If so, I won't argue with you, because I've always been moralistic in that regard. You shouldn't do that; it's wrong. 

The example of Fi-Te you posted made me laugh, because that is precisely WHY I HATE ROSE IN _TITANIC_. That attitude, right there. Screw you, Mom. Screw you, Cal. My actions are justified because I believe they are right. Granted, she's a really horrible, selfish example of an NFP, but still. 



> From what I've read... but more from our extensive interactions, I am certain you are an Alpha. I think there is an argument for pretty much any Alpha type, and I am by no means certain that you are a conscious Ne (aka, I think there is a real likelihood that you are an SFJ)... but that is a moot point, really. I think the most likely option, really, is that you are just a 'generic' Alpha. Meaning that no type label will be more accurate than just calling you Alpha.


Alpha, huh? Define alpha. Leader of the pack? Dominant female? On that, it could go either way. I'm actually quite laid back in real life until someone tries to boss me around, and then I put them back in their place. Nicely, but back they go. 

SFJ? I suppose it's possible, but... I know a few (so much so, they fit the SFJ stereotype profiles) and there really aren't that many similarities. For one thing... they have actual functioning memories that... like, work and actually remember stuff. I'm lucky if I remember what I did four hours ago.


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## owlboy (Oct 28, 2010)

> even though I am a little spontaneous in my decisions, I don’t think that most of them are made based on emotion. The most reckless I ever am is in buying something on impulse;


Fi is not reckless, impulsive emotion. It's actually quite similar to Ti in that it is concerned with consistency, however it is focused on consistent personal values instead of consistent personal logic.

Have you seen the show Community? There's this episode where Britta is given a $5000 cheque or something and she has to choose between donating it to charity or paying off a debt. And she has a mental breakdown over it because paying off her bills, while entirely sensible and of more immediate concern, conflicts with her value of ''being selfless'' and donating to charity. That's a hyperbolic sort of example of what Fi does.

When a Fi finds their values and self-interest collide, they either go against their own values and feel guilty or internally reason until the value is changed so they can proceed guilt-free. This can make them seem like moral hypocrites to us Fe types, but it's not entirely dissimilar to how Ti logic can shift and change to accommodate new information.

Hope that makes sense.

Both ENFPs and ENTPs can be impulsive and reckless. That's more of a dominant Perciever acting-in-the-moment thing than an emotional thing.


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## Psychopomp (Oct 3, 2012)

angelcat said:


> Alpha, huh? Define alpha. Leader of the pack? Dominant female? On that, it could go either way. I'm actually quite laid back in real life until someone tries to boss me around, and then I put them back in their place. Nicely, but back they go.
> 
> SFJ? I suppose it's possible, but... I know a few (so much so, they fit the SFJ stereotype profiles) and there really aren't that many similarities. For one thing... they have actual functioning memories that... like, work and actually remember stuff. I'm lucky if I remember what I did four hours ago.


Oh, I mean Socionics 'Alpha'.. which is any NTP or SFJ... rather, the commonality of those who have Ne Fe Ti and Si functions in any 'order'. 



owlboy said:


> Fi is not reckless, impulsive emotion. It's actually quite similar to Ti in that it is concerned with consistency, however it is focused on consistent personal values instead of consistent personal logic.
> 
> Have you seen the show Community? There's this episode where Britta is given a $5000 cheque or something and she has to choose between donating it to charity or paying off a debt. And she has a mental breakdown over it because paying off her bills, while entirely sensible and of more immediate concern, conflicts with her value of ''being selfless'' and donating to charity. That's a hyperbolic sort of example of what Fi does.
> 
> ...


It's funny, you give a good description of Fi... and then attach it to Britta, who is an Fe-dom. She is an ENFJ. The thing is, Fe-doms can have as much if not more a 'fuck all' attitude as Fi types. The difference is whether that ethical stance is invested into an object or not. In a sense, Britta's stubborn pride could come across as Fi.. but, really it is just stubborn pride. She is an Fe because she does not abstract value... rather, value IS the object. If she walks around the corner and sees someone hitting someone else, the hitter is a devil and the victim is a saint who needs a Crusader to protect them. This is Objective judgment, judgement overly invested into the object. Judgment that changes as fast as the object changes. 

Britta personifies this. I am opening a can of worms, I know, but it is true. 

Example... if Jeff (Winger) changed his tune and put on aires of being a activist good-guy crusader... and Britta saw the manifestation of it... how would she react? She'd either have to pull on Thinking, or on Perception to question it... or Fe would flip on a dime and she would worship him, hypnotized by the object. She is not just an Fe, but a 'big time' Fe. Fe-dom, very differentiated.

Compare to my go-to fictional ENFP, Anne of Green Gables. Same scenario? She'd change her mind, completely despite and aside from the manifestations of the object... no matter the overtures, no matter the realities, maybe years later. Only if she could work it out herself or in the abstract. Evidenced by her interactions with Gilbert Blythe and with the neighbor lady whose name I cannot recall.. the gossipy one. I'd have used an example from Community, but there are no Fi types in Community, at least not in the main case (other than Pierce who was probably a Te/Fi). Chang is probably running Fi as well, come to think of it. Meh, they aren't real characters so they don't count.


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## 68097 (Nov 20, 2013)

^ Rachael Lynde.


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## owlboy (Oct 28, 2010)

arkigos said:


> It's funny, you give a good description of Fi... and then attach it to Britta, who is an Fe-dom. She is an ENFJ.


Britta is so Fi she's basically a parody of Fi. I mean you even accepted the description I gave was accurate, and the description is based on that character. But ok.


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## Psychopomp (Oct 3, 2012)

owlboy said:


> Britta is so Fi she's basically a parody of Fi. I mean you even accepted the description I gave was accurate, and the description is based on that character. But ok.


She is a parody of Fe-dom. She is not an Fi. 

I find it interesting that you'd think that a pedantically crusading activist extrovert would be the parody of an introverted function.


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## Straystuff (May 23, 2014)

I kind of think based on your previous posts that you have a strong Ti (more than Te) and you might use Fe (tho Fi is kind of hard for me to understand so idk). Based on that I'd go with ENTP. Also the way you sometimes say that you don't fit the stereotypes of ENFP:s might be an indicator that you indeed aren't one of them. Anyway, I'll go through this and try to give you more opinions to consider 



angelcat said:


> + I do believe in moral absolutes (granted, my moral beliefs are gleaned from an outside source – the Bible, which could be Si and Fe related, I suppose), and there are certain things that go so against my moral principles that I would never, ever do them


In ENFJ thread there was a thread concerning this. Most people admitted that they can be very adamant about their beliefs. I don't think strong morals are necessarily a Fi thing.



angelcat said:


> + I have a fiercely independent streak and resent anyone trying to control me, overriding me on decisions that we ought to make together, or thinking they know the “real” me; I have a tendency to defend other people who want to take an individualist route in life, within reason (the one time I really butted heads with an ESFJ was when she kept haranguing her ENFP daughter to go to college, even though the girl didn’t want to… it annoyed me that the ENFP had no real say in the matter)


Honestly this sounds more like an enneagram thing: if you truly are 469 this makes a lot of sense. 

I also think that defending people and in a sense "meddling" with other people's business sounds like Fe to me. My Fi friends usually let me handle things on my own and they'll only help if I ask it from them 'cause they feel like that way they are respecting my boudaries. Fe people don't necessarily need premission like that and they are more often confrontational about other people's problems if they feel it's needed (this sometimes annoys people too like seen in this site, heh).



angelcat said:


> + Even though I cry fairly often, I really don’t know that I emote all that much (which, I understand, could be a lower-Fe thing too…)


One of my best friends is an ESTP (aka tertiary Fe user) and she can seem very unemotional at times. She does have strong feelings tho but she's usually more comfortable not showing especially negative emotions in public 'cause "they might bother other people". Also she often cries at movies etc. 'cause it's socially acceptable to show emotions then. More cases where I can see her tertiary Fe are how she can make people like her pretty easily and in the way she wants to understand people (she finds people intriguing and she also wants to get the upper hand in relationships by understanding others ). Does any of this sound familiar to you?



angelcat said:


> + My Fe-dom friend says she senses Fi in my determination to remain "true to my art," and my encouragement of her to stop over-thinking what people will say about her books, because "some things need to be said," and society "needs to be shaken up a bit"
> 
> Whereas Ti could be seen in my over-analyzing myself, I could also argue Te in my ability to get things done, follow lists, and my attentiveness to time management. It feels “stifling” to me and it makes me anxious, but I know how long it takes to get wherever I am going and always leave in plenty of time to get there at the appointed time.


I'm again going to counter with socionics:



> _Though the ILE can demonstrate a head for practical or efficient reasoning, particularly in conjunction with the ignoring function Ni, he will typically resort to it only to sell the merits of his ideas. The ILE is more concerned with the possibility of creating than in finding the best way to do something.
> 
> When the demand exists, the ILE will deliver a practical and realistic rationale or solution, but be prepared for a tack that is singularly unorthodox. The ILE will not be boxed in by the rules of convention, rather he will actively search for a new way to perform a task. In this way, ILEs are often seen cutting corners. To others, this may be seen as snubbing the rules, and rightfully so, because the ILE dislikes the idea of a preset way of performing a task."_


In socionics Te would be your demonstrative function which means that you are fully capable of using it, but you don't value it or like using it. Sounds familiar?  Also the Fi-ish part is kind of covered in that paragraph.




angelcat said:


> *Primary argument against ENTP that is holding me back*: their attraction to impartial systems. They tend to be presented as inventors and think-tanks, and I really don’t consider myself to be either one. I suck at math and only have marginal interest in science. In school, I was way more interested in history (still am), people’s lives (I still read biographies with much interest), and writing (which I still do, but often I worry my writing isn’t “warm” enough). I don't know if this an ENTP trait or not, but I often want an example when dealing with an idea, to gain a better understanding of the idea. I've run into the problem before of INTPs talking in abstracts and I'm not always sure I am understanding them correctly; but I am also good at simplifying material, so who knows? I was also a very thoughtful child, and kind, the sort of child who didn't want to stuffed animals to feel left out. Plus, I tend to get anxiety when there is emotional angst going on; I really don't like or seek out conflict.


I doubt your MBTI type has anything to do with being good or bad at maths etc. Also I've never seen ENTP's as truly cold people. On the contrary they are pretty cheery and enthusiastic people who usually have that one thing/area they geek out about like no tomorrow. I think this video has many great examples of that:








angelcat said:


> *Primary argument against ENFP that is holding me back*: even though I am a little spontaneous in my decisions, I don’t think that most of them are made based on emotion. The most reckless I ever am is in buying something on impulse; but even if the impulse is there, I still go back and forth mentally as I stand there holding it my hand, trying to decide if I need it, want it, if it is wasting money, or if I want to invest in other things like it (such as: the first season of a TV show). Growing up, I usually went more for what I think is a logical approach rather than a romantic one: watching costume dramas, if one particular guy was kind and wealthy, I thought it was stupid if the girl followed her heart to a penniless romantic instead (my reasoning was: he’s nice, and he can provide for you, so you can learn to love him!). I don’t mind individuality… so long as it doesn’t hurt other people; when it does, I tend to get annoyed over how inconveniently Person A is making life for Persons B-D.


Hahaha yuuup, at least the Ne-Fi's I've met as a child were always dreamers with no touch in the reality (no Te yet). "It's stupid to follow your heart" was definitely not a part of their vocabulary  



angelcat said:


> *1. Click on this link: Flickr: Explore! Look at the random photo for about 30 seconds. Copy and paste it here, and write about your impression of it.*
> 
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/overdear/14843869078/in/explore-2014-08-25
> 
> ...


Well, whatever happens we can be sure you use Ne :'D



angelcat said:


> *2. You are with a group of people in a car, heading to a different town to see your favourite band/artist/musician. Suddenly, the car breaks down for an unknown reason in the middle of nowhere. What are your initial thoughts? What are your outward reactions?*
> 
> Knowing me, I spent all of last night thinking of the twenty ways this trip could go wrong. My first thought would be “Nooo…” Then I would climb out, wait for the hood to cool down, pop the trunk and ask if anyone knows anything about cars, because I sure don’t. If wiggling stuff didn’t work, I’d suggest calling for a tow truck / friend / family member to come pick us up and offer to buy them a concert ticket in exchange if we’re still going. (If not, I’ll be bummed about losing the $$ for the tickets.)


Ok in here you started pretty fast thinking how to solve the problem yourself. I kind of think that even an auxiliary feeler would need a little time to cool of before thinking how to solve the problem. 



angelcat said:


> *4. On the drive back, your friends are talking. A friend makes a claim that clashes with your current beliefs. What is your inward reaction? What do you outwardly say?*
> 
> Depends. If they are drunk off their asses, there’s no point in arguing with them. But let’s pretend they’re not: in that case, I would debate whether or not it is worth arguing about. Ten years ago, I would have absolutely argued with them about it, but as I have gotten older and less confrontational, I’m starting to see that people have different views based on their own unique life experiences, and before you shred someone for their beliefs, you should ask what experiences have shaped those beliefs. Understanding someone else is essential to bearing no resentment toward them if you happen to disagree on something. (In the past, I would have leapt to a biased conclusion and resented their view. Now, I might not agree with it, but I want to know what formed it.)


Ok this just sounds like before you countered with Ne-Ti but later on you developed Fe 



angelcat said:


> *5. What would you do if you actually saw/experienced something that clashes with your previous beliefs, experiences, and habits?*
> 
> Like what? That seems a broad question in need of a specific. My core religious beliefs don’t change, but the outer framework does whenever I encounter a new idea or philosophy that I think has merit, either spiritually or logically. If something contradicted my own experience, I would file that away in my information bank as another “possibility,” and mention it the next time we discussed possibilities framed around that idea or experience. My habits fluctuate anyway, so new experiences will have little impact; it’ll change my habits temporarily and then I’ll find something else to adapt to.


I see Ne-Ti: if a thing makes sense to you you are ok with changing your beliefs minus the ones you feel strongly about, but maybe those make so much sense to you you don't even feel the need to think about alternatives.



angelcat said:


> *6. What are some of your most important values? How did you come about determining them? How can they change?*
> 
> (I looked up “values” to determine its true meaning.) Morals. Ethics. Ideals. My morals, ethics, and ideals were shaped by my Christian faith growing up. I re-evaluated them as an adult, and the idea of God in general, and chose to keep them. My morals are derived from Jesus’ teachings about treating others how you would like to be treated, which means I would never intentionally harm another person (and I don’t want to, anyway). I continue to try and argue both sides, however, when it comes to faith… like, which is the bigger sin, to tell a truth that harms another person deeply, or lie to protect them from great harm? (Was Bonhoffer wrong to plan to murder Hitler? Were Christians wrong to hide, defy the authorities, and lie to protect the Jews? I think not.)


I just see more Ne-Ti. The way you want things to make sense to you and evaluate options even if it's this sort of important thing also sounds like your feeling function might not be as strong and it might not be Fi (this is not black and white thinking imo).



angelcat said:


> *7. a) What about your personality most distinguishes you from everyone else? b) If you could change one thing about you personality, what would it be? Why?*
> 
> a) I like to think it’s my objectivity. I can see multiple sides of an argument, and am likely to argue that others give people who have hurt them the benefit of the doubt. I’m not much one for holding grudges, either, because once I get over the initial anger and start to think about their motivations, I can sort of see what framed their decision or accusation. (That being said, I don’t want much to do with people I’ve conflicted with violently; forgiving someone doesn’t mean the scars aren’t still there, or that you can “get along” now.)
> 
> b) I would like to have greater self-confidence; I feel like I had it as a child (even though I was a bit shy) but then took so much criticism from different people that I became very insecure about how I interact with people, my bluntness, and even my ideas. I’m afraid of failing, of coming across a stupid, or not being able to handle a bad situation on my own (all irrational fears, but… I’m a 4x5 enneagram, so there you go).


I can see Ne Ti Fe again. The way you want to take other people's opinions into an account even if you are mad at them is Fe. My Fi friends are much more adamant especially when angry (black and white thinking). Ne-Ti makes you think of the stuff in the first place.



angelcat said:


> *8. How do you treat hunches or gut feelings? In what situations are they most often triggered?*
> 
> In that situation, I merely closed all communication ties with her and her friends and said nothing about it to our mutual group of acquaintances. When asked what had happened, because someone saw the other girl’s tirade and nothing from my end, I calmly explained what I thought had happened and that girl, and others, went on to defend me (and we became close friends). (This makes me wonder if it was a Fi-Te shutout and shutdown, but I’m not sure what I felt in that situation… anger at not being able to express myself, shocked at her emotional outburst, and upset at being maligned, but I don’t know that I was “hurt” by it. How do you even define “hurt”? In actions and tears, or in deep sorrow? I feel greater sorrow over the loss of a pet than anything anyone has ever said to me.)


Hmm you are right that at first glance this looks like Fi. Tho that thing about being angry at not being able to express yourself made it sound like you wanted to? Taking your enneagram type into consideration it might have been that you just didn't trust others enough to share and you did Fe doorslam in silence.



angelcat said:


> *9. a) What activities energize you most? b) What activities drain you most? Why?*
> 
> Interesting discussions are the stuff of life to me. I’m most energized when I can communicate often to someone I like, and discuss all manner of things. Mundane tasks such as chores, homework, bookkeeping, or trying to balance my checkbook, drain me… as does being alone or focusing too much on myself. The more I think about myself, the more critical I am of myself, and the more melancholy I become.


Sounds like you don't like Te?  Also you are clearly an extrovert.



angelcat said:


> *10. What do you repress about your outward behavior or internal thought process when around others? Why?*
> 
> I think I hold back from being too socially outgoing, because I was hurt several times growing up by other children. As a child, I was eager to be liked and to be included, but my tendency to speak my mind often caused emotional blow-ups that I was unequipped to handle, so I am more careful now of what I say. I think I come across as colder and more aloof a lot of the time than is my actual personality, and I’m not sure why I do it. I suspect it’s a protective mechanism, since I’ve grown rather unhappily accustomed to being the “substitute person” that people never think about including, until all other options are exhausted. (But there too, I can see where I do the same thing to people I find tedious, so I guess we all do it.)


I think this is enneagram thing. Also undeveloped Fe maybe?

I hope this helped even a little bit!


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## 68097 (Nov 20, 2013)

Straystuff said:


> I kind of think based on your previous posts that you have a strong Ti (more than Te) and you might use Fe (tho Fi is kind of hard for me to understand so idk). Based on that I'd go with ENTP. Also the way you sometimes say that you don't fit the stereotypes of ENFP:s might be an indicator that you indeed aren't one of them. Anyway, I'll go through this and try to give you more opinions to consider


I'm not going to answer your individual claims, because I think you made a fairly good case! And... wow, you answered it almost point by point, which must have taken you awhile! I'm floored. Thank you!

I think you're right, in that I use Ti-Fe. I've been thinking about the major "Fi time" in my life, when my friend went off on me like that and I went into full retreat, and in other instances when that has happened, I have retreated to self-examine and see if the other person is "right" in their accusation before deciding whether or not to get mad about it, which I suspect is Ti-Fe. If they have a point in their rant, and it's correct, I can change my behavior and fix it; but if it's all irrational accusations without merit, I usually get mad at them for being irrational.

I've also been known to shoulder the blame in an argument out of the assumption that it was probably my fault, because in the past it was always my fault (blunt), which is no doubt classic Fe-martyr behavior. (Oh, woe is me, I'm such a bad friend... I'm so rude, no wonder they hate me! LOL)

Re: the argument you are not part of, but I feel compelled to comment on. I have never seen "Community," but I'd say it's easy to mistake an extrovert crusader as a Fi-type, because of all the "Fi's are all about moral causes" stuff spread all over the internet. The ENFPs are even pictured as moral crusaders, who find a personal cause and go inspire others to take up the call and do something about it. If that's wrong, and I'm starting to suspect it is, it's a stereotypical mistake to make that isn't all that surprising given the amount of biased information out there.


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## Word Dispenser (May 18, 2012)

I think there's a strong argument for you actually being an xSFJ. 

As arkigos said, at the very least, 'Alpha' is what to call you, for sure. These are the functions you're using. Fe, Ti, Ne, Si, in some order.

I lean ESFJ, but there's nothing that says ENTP is out of the question either. 

It took me quite a long time to land on INTP, due to what seemed like a strong Fe. I had even contemplated ESFJ for a time, and have been typed as an ENTP for several years.

But, it turns out to be my expressiveness, rather than any ability to actually utilize Fe in a comprehensive, natural way. I'm seeing that you're utilizing Fe in pretty much every statement you're making, I can recognize it objectively for what it is, and I'm naturally drawn to it. _If _you are an xSFJ, then you would be naturally drawn to Ne and Ti, and _that's _why it's possible to mistype.

These are only conjectures.


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## 68097 (Nov 20, 2013)

I'm willing to consider SFJ, because I do seem to have a strong Fe. I even spent a good couple of hours considering it last night, and I haven't ruled it out, but ... 

I know my Fe isn't as strong as the Fe-doms I'm in contact with. Their Fe is so evident, so blatant, and so strong that it bowls me over. I enjoy being around it, because it's nice to feel warm and wanted and all that, but I marvel at their ability to do it, because I can't do that. My mind doesn't automatically shift to where their mind goes and one ENFJ I know is rather shocked at times at my flippant attitude toward her primary worries as regards her writing (namely, I told her to just write what she wants, do it in a tasteful manner, and not worry how others will take it, because society sometimes needs shaken up a bit and challenged).

I know several ISFJs as well and... we aren't much alike either, at least in terms of behavior and taste. They are much more aggressively protective of their families than I am, among other things. I relate to their tendency to fall into a habit pattern and enjoy some traditions but I really don't see dominant Si in my forgetful, easily distracted, easily bored behavior. I seem to be a play actor whose opinions and beliefs change with the wind, and many people call me a walking contradiction because they can't figure me out. 

I had an argument recently with an ISFJ over the movie "Noah." She refuses to see it, because it's scripturally inaccurate. I saw it and enjoyed it, because it was a different perspective on an age-old legend. (I went with the ESFJ, and had I not opened up his mind beforehand when discussing early reviews and urging him to consider different perspectives and imagination, he would have hated it.) Another ISFJ I know posted a rant on Facebook after seeing the movie about how unholy and evil it was, because it was nothing like scripture. Sure, it was nothing like scripture. It wasn't using scripture as a model! Granted, I grew up in a household that is perpetually open-minded and willing to consider all ideas. My dad framed a lot of my behavior patterns in this manner, so I suppose it's possible that I'm an SFJ whose Ne is just really well developed. 

Would an SFJ write a book around the spiritual symbolism in "The Lord of the Rings" films that has God seated on a couch next to the narrator, watching the movies with her, with an overlay of sarcastic humor on it? If the answer is yes, I'm happy to consider SFJ much more seriously, but so far all the SFJs I've met have run screaming away from anything that even _might_ be considered heretical.


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## Grain of Sugar (Sep 17, 2013)

angelcat said:


> True, but sometimes I get hung up on stereotypes! Ne-going-in-circles doesn't help either. Thanks for your thoughts!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Your response to me. Yes, that is what I think. But for art, what if art is offensive to show the viewers own faults? ^^

Hmm, I always read "If you do not like it, …" below youtube hate. Are they all Fi?;0


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## 68097 (Nov 20, 2013)

BlueberryCupcake said:


> what if art is offensive to show the viewers own faults? ^^
> 
> Hmm, I always read "If you do not like it, …" below youtube hate. Are they all Fi?;0


I tend to think that most people know the difference between offensive and non-offensive, so if they truly want their art to make a grand moral statement _beyond_ its offensiveness, they would know that the more offensive it is, the more the message becomes lost _behind_ the offensiveness. 

For example, in my writing, I deal with a lot of dark themes that could be potentially offensive, and ask a lot of tough questions, but I try and frame it in such a way that the reader isn't so shocked by the writing or descriptions that the message is lost behind the shock-value. I think some books are written PURELY for shock-value, and if there is any message in the book, for me it gets lost behind how offensively it was staged. (And yes... I realize that was a total Fe paragraph. LOL)

Anyway, on the topic at hand -- I asked my parents what I was like as a kid. They said at home, I was a loving chatterbox with a tendency toward drama in my taste in entertainment, but whenever in a group I quieted down, fit in, and behaved myself. Is that Fe-dom?

Between Ne and Fe, purely off of what I've read about both, I gravitate toward feeling like I use Fe quite a bit. But that's primarily based off of the "explosion of ideas" that Ne-doms appear to have. I do have ideas, but I could see where they would be contained around whatever we are discussing. I'm good at analogies and figuring out things (no one ever beats me at solving murder mysteries 15 minutes into the movie, and I knew what Loki was up to in Thor 2 before anyone else in the group did) but I don't tend to go off on tangents. I want to know the point, which I suppose could be Si-Ne at work. Give me the facts/details and we'll go from there. 

ESFJ? It seems like a foreign concept to me, but I'm willing to consider it. It would explain why I'm usually drawn to the SFJ types, too (and NTPs... but there are fewer of those in television and film).

ETA: Went through the ESFJ forum and... yeah, no. Not me. At all. A smell unlocking a memory of when you were six? No. Mommy-ing everyone? Nope.


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## Straystuff (May 23, 2014)

angelcat said:


> I'm not going to answer your individual claims, because I think you made a fairly good case! And... wow, you answered it almost point by point, which must have taken you awhile! I'm floored. Thank you!


You were patient and nice about my type chrisis so I'm just happy if I can help you out and return the favor. Also I think you are cool and nice to talk to/analyze with so why not 



angelcat said:


> I think you're right, in that I use Ti-Fe. I've been thinking about the major "Fi time" in my life, when my friend went off on me like that and I went into full retreat, and in other instances when that has happened, I have retreated to self-examine and see if the other person is "right" in their accusation before deciding whether or not to get mad about it, which I suspect is Ti-Fe. If they have a point in their rant, and it's correct, I can change my behavior and fix it; but if it's all irrational accusations without merit, I usually get mad at them for being irrational.
> 
> I've also been known to shoulder the blame in an argument out of the assumption that it was probably my fault, because in the past it was always my fault (blunt), which is no doubt classic Fe-martyr behavior. (Oh, woe is me, I'm such a bad friend... I'm so rude, no wonder they hate me! LOL)


Yup that sounds like Ti-Fe to me too  All in all I'm 95% sure you use Ne Ti and Fe in some order.

I do that martyr -thing too and I tell you nothing is worse than being self aware about your own martyrdom. It's like _"I know I'm an idiot and thinking like this makes no sense and it only makes things worse in the future but let's still do this pity-party for weeks 'cause I'm bored"_. Fe is a beautiful thing.



angelcat said:


> Re: the argument you are not part of, but I feel compelled to comment on. I have never seen "Community," but I'd say it's easy to mistake an extrovert crusader as a Fi-type, because of all the "Fi's are all about moral causes" stuff spread all over the internet. The ENFPs are even pictured as moral crusaders, who find a personal cause and go inspire others to take up the call and do something about it. If that's wrong, and I'm starting to suspect it is, it's a stereotypical mistake to make that isn't all that surprising given the amount of biased information out there.


Hmm, I only glanced the conversation since I haven't watched Community either and atm it's a bit late here to start analyzing it further (I might later on tho). All I know is that Britta's actor is a stereotype of an ENFj -Ni on socionics and it might bleed through into her character.

I agree that many MBTI traits are most likely stereotypes. Moreover I've started to think that the functions manifest themselves differently in different individuals for many reasons and taking more sources into account when typing a person makes the final result a lot more accurate. I started learning more about socionics and enneagram exactly for this reason: e.g. your enneatype (and mine) might come off as Fi-ish at times 'cause of the type 4.


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## Straystuff (May 23, 2014)

As a person of my type I have to say you are not a Fe-dom. You don't live and breathe emotions in the same way I do, you _use_ them.

E.g. the way I use smileys a lot: I constantly feel the need to tell you I come in peace (I know I'm an idiot but that's a Fe-dom for you). That's not you tho. Based on your posts I think you live and breathe either Ti or Ne 

Edit: I guess that final smiley made this a bit ironic.....


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## Grain of Sugar (Sep 17, 2013)

It is fine


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## 68097 (Nov 20, 2013)

Straystuff said:


> I do that martyr -thing too and I tell you nothing is worse than being self aware about your own martyrdom. It's like _"I know I'm an idiot and thinking like this makes no sense and it only makes things worse in the future but let's still do this pity-party for weeks 'cause I'm bored"_. Fe is a beautiful thing.


Oh, gosh yes. Every time I have a (somewhat irregular) emotional outburst, I feel the need to apologize for it afterward. 



> I agree that many MBTI traits are most likely stereotypes. Moreover I've started to think that the functions manifest themselves differently in different individuals for many reasons...


I totally agree. I'm starting to see just how much a person's upbringing influences their type dramatically. Now and again I meet someone who fits a stereotype, but more often than not, it takes a lot of observing and truly LISTENING to them to tell what their true type is. I knew fairly early on that a friend had Ne/Si, Fe/Ti going on. My initial assessment was ENTP, but I realized within a few weeks that he was an unhappy ESFJ in a job he hated that was bringing out his Ti and making him super-critical of everything in life. 



> As a person of my type I have to say you are not a Fe-dom. You don't live and breathe emotions in the same way I do, you use them.
> 
> E.g. the way I use smileys a lot: I constantly feel the need to tell you I come in peace (I know I'm an idiot but that's a Fe-dom for you). That's not you tho. Based on your posts I think you live and breathe either Ti or Ne
> 
> Edit: I guess that final smiley made this a bit ironic.....


Yeah... I can see what you mean. And smilies are nice. I just... don't over use them. 

Also? I LOVE your avatar. Morgana is the best thing about "Merlin."


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## Straystuff (May 23, 2014)

I see you changed your MBTI, congratulations about the new type! 



angelcat said:


> I totally agree. I'm starting to see just how much a person's upbringing influences their type dramatically. Now and again I meet someone who fits a stereotype, but more often than not, it takes a lot of observing and truly LISTENING to them to tell what their true type is. I knew fairly early on that a friend had Ne/Si, Fe/Ti going on. My initial assessment was ENTP, but I realized within a few weeks that he was an unhappy ESFJ in a job he hated that was bringing out his Ti and making him super-critical of everything in life.


Indeed  Also especially when it comes to friends/family I find it harder to type the person 'cause I think I might influence the way they act around me. E.g. I'm fairly sure a lot of people mistype their mothers as XSFJ:s 'cause they act motherly in front of their children. Ahhh, typing is hard :'D



angelcat said:


> Yeah... I can see what you mean. And smilies are nice. I just... don't over use them.


You know even a tiny thing like this makes me think you might use tertiary Fe. I've met some Fi users who find smileys unnerving/annoying 'cause they are basically a constant reminder of my current emotions and they push them to use their emotions openly too :') Fe users, even not that strong ones, are more chill when it comes to smileys but they might not use them as much. (or at least that's how I see it??? This is pretty much my Fe-Ni talking...)



angelcat said:


> Also? I LOVE your avatar. Morgana is the best thing about "Merlin."


Oh thank you! I love Morgana to death. Also I believe she is the same type as I am and oh god I'm way too proud of that. She's cool, we're the same type, I must be cool too RIGHT???? :'D

I like your new avatar too!  I just watched the new series with 12 and oh god I'm so excited!!


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## 68097 (Nov 20, 2013)

Straystuff said:


> I see you changed your MBTI, congratulations about the new type!


Thank you! ... hopefully it will STAY THIS WAY NOW. *slaps self*



> You know even a tiny thing like this makes me think you might use tertiary Fe. I've met some Fi users who find smileys unnerving/annoying 'cause they are basically a constant reminder of my current emotions and they push them to use their emotions openly too :') Fe users, even not that strong ones, are more chill when it comes to smileys but they might not use them as much.


You know, I've noticed that. In retrospect, the people I think are Fi-users that I've had e-mail relationships with, hardly ever used smilies. Letters were seriuz bizness to them. (One girl who writes me on occasion thinks she's an INFP. I would bet a week's wages she's an ISFJ. I get a strong Fe-vibe... and lots of smilies.) 



> Oh thank you! I love Morgana to death. Also I believe she is the same type as I am and oh god I'm way too proud of that. She's cool, we're the same type, I must be cool too RIGHT???? :'D


Morgana is AWESOME. I loved her "good" and I love her "evil." And yes, you are EXTREMELY COOL. I can tell. 



> I like your new avatar too!  I just watched the new series with 12 and oh god I'm so excited!!


"I'm so excited! Just so delighted!..." no idea what that song is, but it's stuck in my head now.

12 I think will be awesome. I'm looking forward to an episode where he's not, you know, a lunatic. I'm thinking we're getting a Ni/Se-Se/Ni Doctor this time, which is FABULOUS.


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## Straystuff (May 23, 2014)

angelcat said:


> Thank you! ... hopefully it will STAY THIS WAY NOW. *slaps self*


I'm pretty sure ENTP is your type, but even if it isn't we just have to have another typing party :')



angelcat said:


> You know, I've noticed that. In retrospect, the people I think are Fi-users that I've had e-mail relationships with, hardly ever used smilies. Letters were seriuz bizness to them. (One girl who writes me on occasion thinks she's an INFP. I would bet a week's wages she's an ISFJ. I get a strong Fe-vibe... and lots of smilies.)


Ok great I'm not imagining things! :'D And this is good thing to know, maybe we can use this info in the future too when trying to figure out if a person is Fe or Fi -user. :')



angelcat said:


> Morgana is AWESOME. I loved her "good" and I love her "evil." And yes, you are EXTREMELY COOL. I can tell.


She was the most complex character in the show by far. And it fascinates me that I still can't say her actions were completely evil and wrong. To be honest most of her desicions were exactly the same I would have made in similar situation. To me that tells about a well-written bad guy.

And yes indeed.... you seem like a smart person, continue... :'D



angelcat said:


> "I'm so excited! Just so delighted!..." no idea what that song is, but it's stuck in my head now.
> 
> 12 I think will be awesome. I'm looking forward to an episode where he's not, you know, a lunatic. I'm thinking we're getting a Ni/Se-Se/Ni Doctor this time, which is FABULOUS.


My first thought for his type was actually ISTP. Se and Ni were evident, and I saw Ti too. The way he wanted validation to his feeling -based thoughts (_"Clara, am I a good man?"_) might have been a sign of inferior Fe.

Also I love that Clara has again a bigger part in the series! I think in the last season there were episodes where the way she was written was a bit sloppy, but oh boy she was so cool in the new ep


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## Grain of Sugar (Sep 17, 2013)

I think the smiley thing is true. If anything, Fi users put xD or weird cat icons ^^ well, at least an ISTJ. ESFP uses smilies when someone has birthday. maybe.


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## owlboy (Oct 28, 2010)

arkigos said:


> She is a parody of Fe-dom. She is not an Fi.
> 
> I find it interesting that you'd think that a pedantically crusading activist extrovert would be the parody of an introverted function.


.... Fi users can't be extroverts or moral crusaders?

O k a y then.


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## owlboy (Oct 28, 2010)

Straystuff said:


> I
> My first thought for his type was actually ISTP. Se and Ni were evident, and I saw Ti too. The way he wanted validation to his feeling -based thoughts (_"Clara, am I a good man?"_) might have been a sign of inferior Fe.


the Doctor's anxiety over living in accordance with his subjective, personal values is Fi-based. And he's an Ne-dom for sure.

Cranky and cantankerous =/= introvert. interest in science =/= thinker.

For an example of aux Ti and inferior Fe see River Song. She's not morally compelled to safeguard the Universe in the same way as the Doctor is.


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## Psychopomp (Oct 3, 2012)

owlboy said:


> .... Fi users can't be extroverts or moral crusaders?
> 
> O k a y then.



What an odd thing to say. 

You mean that because I used the word 'extravert', you interpret me as saying that Fi types cannot be extraverts. I suspect that you don't believe that, and are thus using some sort of rhetorical trick that I fail to understand.

So, despite it being beyond absurd to do so, I will be explicit that yes, obviously, a great number of Fi types are extraverts. 

However, I will quite strongly reiterate that on the overwhelming whole, Fi users are not moral crusaders. I can think of a fair few strong Te types that could be called moral crusaders, but I can't think of any strong Fi types that are - even extraverted ones. Here you have ENFPs and ESFPs. I can give a pretty decent list of people from both types that I think would be generally accepted by the community as being strongly indicative and typical of those types and I think you'll find that, no, they are not moral crusaders.

This is in the same sense that Ti types tend not to be logical commentators. That is the job of strong Te types. Te types are people like Sam Harris, Bill O'Reilly, Bill Maher, and a slew of other similar folks who, in their own way, are champions of their own brand of Reason and Sense. It is the same with Fe-doms. You have your Oprah Winfreys and Bonos and MLKs, (and if you ask me, Obama) etc... all moral crusaders in the typical sense. 

My list of ENFPs: John Lennon, Amanda Palmer, and to a lesser extent Regina Spektor. I sometimes think that Eric Nally is an ENFP. I am sure you can drudge up from the dark recesses of your brain some ESFPs and you will find that there is scarsely a moral crusader in the bunch. You can argue the first two in my list as moral crusaders, and I'd certainly not necessarily disagree, but you'll find they both spent more time on the contrarian side of pretty much every 'cause' that you can imagine, and are both generally regarded, to borrow a term, as 'problematic', because of how they downplay and subvert moral causes at a whim. It is an interesting study, really.

And, simply put, if you asked our subject which list of people she'd align herself to and idolize, well, on a good day its MLK and on a bad day it is Bono. Those ENFPs are just too darn 'problematic'. 

Please don't respond to this with absurdity as in that last post. If it seems like I am saying something bizarre like "Fi types can't be extraverts", then read again with a more generous eye. If that fails.... I don't know what to say. If I am saying something that left-field, then why are you even responding to me?


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