# Help! Am I an ISFJ or an ISTJ?



## Kyro (May 26, 2014)

Hi.

Let me get straight to the point, i'm confused.

The first time I took the MBTI test, I got put as an ISFJ. It fit and applied to me pretty well. Some things did seem a bit odd, (for a fact, i'm not insecure, and I do not need reassurance. I've been told I was blunt and arrogant.) 

I do find it is easier for me to understand peoples emotions, I know when they're sad, or happy. But I never take action. Is this just me being a bad person?

I took the test a second time, getting ISFJ again. That's when I truly believed I was an ISFJ. 

I took the test a 3rd and 4th time, and I got ISTJ. Basically, I took the test 4 times and tied with ISFJ twice and ISTJ twice.

Now, my friends also have taken the MBTI test (An ENTJ, INTJ, and an ISFP) and they all believe I'm T > F. I think because the T factor is mistaken for ''being smart'' and F is mistaken for being too nice and not being that smart.
I think I'm pretty bright, because I'm actually VERY young.

If I had to talk about my personality I'd say that I often come off as stand-offish and blunt, but I'm loyal to my friends, i'm quiet yet confident and I don't like to share my emotion yet I can tell peoples emotions easily. I notice the little things in movies and that has stood out for me. I'm very detail-oriented. Like if a background character is reused in a theatre performance, I'm always the one to notice it.

I said before that my friends say the I'm more ISTJ than ISFJ since i'm ''smart." I think maybe that might be a common misconception. 

Usually in group or social situations, I start off being quiet and the listener until the point I feel comfortable with the people and I *sometimes* end up as the leader and starting conversations.

The main reason people think i'm more of an ISTJ than an ISFJ is because instead of going with my gut, I go with my mind. By that I mean, if I have to decide something that might hurt someones feelings but I know that if I take this path I will succeed, I'm going to go with it. For example like... oh I don't know... going into war? 

Then again this all depends. Sometimes I think I'm trying too hard to be a type i'm not. Mistyping, I suppose. 

My friends say I'm kind, loyal, calm, quiet, organized, smart, etc.

That's all I have for now.
Thanks if you can give me any insight, I've been wanting to make this thread since I want to know what I exactly am. I really enjoy researching this stuff.


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## Kabosu (Mar 31, 2012)

Based off of what you say, I wonder if ISxP could actually be the right one. MBTI is odd with introverts on the J/P dichotomy.


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## Fire Away (Nov 29, 2013)

You could be neither.

Learn the Cognitive Functions.


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## Kyro (May 26, 2014)

''Could'' isn't really helping, could you be more in-depth? 

Maybe explain the cognitive functions a bit more clearly?


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## Draki (Apr 4, 2014)

There is a forum for cognitive functions and a lot of useful stickies if you want to learn about them.
There are 8 functions and every type use different ones. So you will probably see very clear differences between the types.
And if you recognize your functions you'll find your real type.

http://personalitycafe.com/cognitiv...iled-descriptions-each-function-attitude.html
http://personalitycafe.com/cognitive-functions/2842-cognitive-functions-diagram-approach.html

You can also hangout in the different subforums, to see which one you like the most.


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## Fynest One (Jun 26, 2013)

@dandere

_*Um. I'm an ISFJ and consider mself smart lol. I'm also far from insecure.*_


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

TopCatLSD said:


> You could be neither.
> 
> Learn the Cognitive Functions.


Learning functions FTW!
Not that I have high hopes, most people balk when they have to learn them.
And especially when they find out that it is just the tip of a very complicated iceberg.

However this person is pretty bright and even described as smart by peers.
So I'll giver her a better than average chance.
Ain't I generous. 

Oh well one more post chalked up by procrastination tendensies.


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## Kyro (May 26, 2014)

Thanks for the help so far guys. 

I've searched up about the cognitive functions and it is helping so I guess I know my dominant function.

For me it's Si (introverted sensing I believe?)

I took a test for the cognitive functions and it said that i'd most likely be an ISTJ. 

I'm not so sure though.


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## Kyro (May 26, 2014)

If it helps any more-

My cognitive functions are:

Si - Ni - Ti - Te - Fi - Fe - Se - Ne (in order)


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## KraChZiMan (Mar 23, 2013)

dandere said:


> If it helps any more-
> 
> My cognitive functions are:
> 
> Si - Ni - Ti - Te - Fi - Fe - Se - Ne (in order)


That looks like the results of those bullshit internet tests. Cognitive functions can not behave in such orders. It has to be -

Te/Si, Te/Ni, Fe/Si, Fe/Ni, Se/Fi, Se/Ti, Ne/Ti, Ne/Fi. 

Or in other words, it's Extroverted perceiving (Se, Ne) /Introverted judging (Ti, Fi), or Extroverted judging (Te, Fe) /Introverted perceiving (Si, Ni).

In even simpler words, it has to be tied to a cognitive function stack that represents a certain type. Si - Ni can not be admitted to any type.

You said that your dom function is supposed to be Si, which is good. 

Then it narrows down to ISFJ/ISTJ choice.

Now, there are some differences between the two that can help you further:

*ISFJ*'s are in general the kind of people who are much more better at conforming and working with other people. ISFJ's are good at teamwork, and considerate in that. *ISTJ*'s on the other hand are quite horrible at teamwork, and prefer to work alone. 

*ISFJ*'s also generally make huge differences between communicating with certain people. For example, they tend to lie and be more hesistant to speak from their heart when talking to people they don't know well, or dislike, while 
*ISTJ*'s either avoid people they don't feel comfortable with, or if they don't avoid them, they just flat out say "go away" or something like that. That makes ISFJ's very well able to socially manipulate people, while ISTJ's prefer to stick with brutal honesty or complete avoidance.

*ISFJ*'s also generally possess more optimistic outlook on the world. They prefer the "bad things do happen, but in the end it's going to be alright" mentality, but *ISTJ*'s are somewhat pessimistic, and might have problems with trusting people. This might not always be a bad thing, since it prepares ISTJ's for bad scenarios to come, while ISFJ's are always taken by surprise when bad things happen in the world, and with them.

On *plus side*, *ISFJ*'s are better at conforming, better teamworkers, can appear more presentable to others and their little capacity for Introverted Thinking makes them really good at orienting in fine details that Te-Fi users might not notice. The *weaknesses *however involve that ISFJ's might lack the determination, being quick to change their decisions when something suddenly becomes too much of a work (for example, deciding to not go on a trip they always wanted to go when none of the friends are willing to join). Also, ISFJ's might not be able to expect bad scenarios, sometimes turning a blind spot for that. 

Music video example to visually illustrate my point on *ISFJ*'s. Here in this song and video you can how they appear, what is their mindset, and how their personal style generally looks like. Click on spoiler tags to see:


* *













On *plus side*, *ISTJ*'s are better at working independently, and are really low maintenance (can be content even with living in somewhat humble conditions) with only becoming inhumanly persistent when their organic, slow but steady course of life becomes threatened (for example, the ISTJ student with bad grades is suddenly threatened to kick out of school by teachers, and after that, ISTJ student goes on a hyperdrive to fix the grades, and goes back to slacking again when teachers are pleased). The *weaknesses* involve that compared to ISFJ's, the ISTJ's can be somewhat loner'ish, because they do not know how to conform and look presentable. ISTJ's are also really fatalistic ("No wonder she dumped me. She was way out of my league anyways.") compared to ISFJ's who categorically despise self-pity and fatalism like that.

Music video example to visually illustrate my point on *ISTJ'*s. Here in this song and video you can how they appear, what is their mindset, and how their personal style generally looks like. Click on spoiler tags to see:


* *













Basically, if it helps you, ISTJ's are more similar to INFP's, while ISFJ's are more similar to INTP's, due to similar cognitive functions. :wink:


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## Mochi (Apr 19, 2014)

If you're very young, it'll make it extremely hard to tell your type. 

If you want to continue your typology explorations further anyway, learn more about the cognitive functions. :kitteh: You might be able to ID your dominant and aux function.


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## Bahburah (Jul 25, 2013)

Are you hardworking and focused? (ISTJ)

Or

Is your sense of humour goofy? (ISFJ)


I'd actually say that ISFJs are more blunt when they want to be than ISTJs.


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## Kyro (May 26, 2014)

*@KraChZiMan*



At first, I need to say thank you for helping me know that was internet bullshit!

I'm still a bit unsure though.

Towards the world, If something bad happens, i'm prepared. So I have a pessimistic view of the world. (I always think ''everything happens for a reason" and shrug it off)

When it comes to group work, I'm good at being the leader (I usually do end up being a leader.) Except I prefer working independently. I like thinking deeper into my own ideas instead of changing it very quickly because my peer(s) don't like it.

The part about ISTJ students reacting to bad grades fits me too accurately. Speaking from personal experience.

I'm not that fatalistic, I have days where I do say things like "oh I can't do anything right" but most of the time, If I do something wrong or bad, I'll just say ''OK'' and move on.

If there's someone I don't like, or am not comfortable with I fall into the ISFJ category. I'm able to socially manipulate people like that, except... I wouldn't think of it as the best.

Thank you for your help! Still puzzled here, though.


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## Kyro (May 26, 2014)

Mochi said:


> If you're very young, it'll make it extremely hard to tell your type.
> 
> If you want to continue your typology explorations further anyway, learn more about the cognitive functions. :kitteh: You might be able to ID your dominant and aux function.




I'm under 13 if that says anything. My friends are the same age as me and they have found a good resemblance to their MBTI. My dominant function is Si. My friends have also found their dominant functions. I'd say they fit VERY well with their typing descriptions.


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## Mochi (Apr 19, 2014)

@dandere Under 13? That says that you really shouldn't be on this forum. It's a violation of COPPA.

With that said and out of the way, you can't type yourself at such a young age. Your functions are still developing. :kitteh:


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## Kyro (May 26, 2014)

Mochi said:


> @dandere Under 13? That says that you really shouldn't be on this forum. It's a violation of COPPA.
> 
> With that said and out of the way, you can't type yourself at such a young age. Your functions are still developing. :kitteh:



Under 13 being at the moment. Going on to 13. (June 20)

I know that my functions are still developing, just knowing by now would be good. I'm just curious, I guess. I honestly don't know how to put in words without me sounding like a stupid young twat. The reason I don't like telling your age is because everyone is just "oh they're still young they don't understand.'' Maybe we don't understand. But we understand a lot more things. It's less on age and more on who you are and how your mind works. Sorry, that's not related to the question.

Thank you, though.


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## Moyasu (Feb 19, 2014)

dandere said:


> Under 13 being at the moment. Going on to 13. (June 20)
> 
> I know that my functions are still developing, just knowing by now would be good. I'm just curious, I guess. I honestly don't know how to put in words without me sounding like a stupid young twat. The reason I don't like telling your age is because everyone is just "oh they're still young they don't understand.'' Maybe we don't understand. But we understand a lot more things. It's less on age and more on who you are and how your mind works. Sorry, that's not related to the question.
> 
> Thank you, though.


He wasn't trying to belittle you for your age, if anything you're very mature for your age.

Your first two functions don't really finish developing until your late teens, and your third develops at middle age.

10-14ish is a really hard age to type people at, as your mind is still changing. A blank canvas, nothing is set in stone. At younger ages, you do more of what you were taught is right. At older ages,(especially during teenage years), you gain more of a sense of individuality, and it's easier to tell your type out.

For now, I'd suggest filling in one of the questionnaires that are stickied to this forum, and have people that are expirenced try to type you.


Who knows, it may be something you never really thought of.


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## reckful (Jun 19, 2012)

@dandere —

In Gifts Differing, Myers explained: "By the time children reach seventh grade, their types can be identified with a useful degree of accuracy by the Type Indicator."

The MBTI Manual explains: "When the MBTI is used with high school students and adults who can read at least at the eighth grade level, a counselor can be reasonably confident of the reported type for individual guidance, provided that the reported type never be used as an established fact, but rather as a hypothesis for verification."

As far as the so-called "cognitive functions" go, James Reynierse (in an article linked to in my first linked post, below) has recently characterized them as a "category mistake," and I think he's right. Assuming you have reasonably well-defined preferences, I think you're more likely to correctly type yourself using dichotomy-based tests than tests (or analysis) based on the functions. And if you've got one or more preferences that are in or near the middle, I think dichotomy-based tests are more likely to correctly indicate that situation as well.

If you're interested, you can find more from me on the dichotomies and functions, plus links to online MBTI resources and type profiles, in the following three posts (all from the same thread):

one
two
three


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

Mochi said:


> @_dandere_ Under 13? That says that you really shouldn't be on this forum. It's a violation of COPPA.
> 
> With that said and out of the way, you can't type yourself at such a young age. Your functions are still developing. :kitteh:


I call bullshit on that.
From my personal experience anyone over 5 should be easy enough to type.
If you are old enough to read and write your psyche must have made up 
it's mind on what direction to focus in.
If it didn't it would not be able to really make sense of things.
I think this misconception comes out of kids being very fond of their trickster function.
Making them hard to type for unobservant observers.
However whenever the child is serious their type will be real and persistent.


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## KraChZiMan (Mar 23, 2013)

dandere said:


> *@KraChZiMan*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's the issue with type portraits. Everyone always attributes characteristics of other types to themselves as well :laughing:

I was not going to say that ISFJ's are naive or anything. Anyone can be naive, regardless of the type. What I described in my first response was brutally honest observations. You have to be entirely sure, which one you are most of the time. Like for example, are you truly, like really really honestly actually preferring teamwork, working with others, or working independently? Because I am entirely sure that one significant feature to separate ISFJ's and ISTJ's is that ISFJ's are more of a teamplayers, while ISTJ's are really independent, kind of a lone wolves. 

For example, I considered myself to be INTJ when I was younger, simply because I was fascinated by programming, and technical stuff that working with computers involves, and such, but later on I figured that it had nothing to do with being particularly interested in technical stuff, it was just a means for me to express my more artsy stuff (such as learning how to work with Flash and Photoshop down to the finer details, just to learn how to apply them better to create my artsy stuff)

If you're that young, 13 as you said, then of course it is difficult to assign a type yet, as your personality is still in the development phase. Ideally, MBTI can be most confidently assigned to people who are at least 18, so with that being said, you shouldn't rush with assigning a concrete type for yourself just yet, before you haven't taken time to become more mature and learn more about yourself. Good luck anyways :happy:


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