# Sensors vs Intuitives proportion may be quite different?



## Annesyl (Dec 20, 2013)

I am currently reading a book on personality types, written by 2 specialists who implemented MBTI in France about 20 years ago.
I was really suprised to see how the S vs N proportion was varying between the US, UK and France.
(I guess that's why we French go less over excited about being an N, super special and stuff).

US
73.3 % of Sensors vs 26.7 % of INtuitives

UK
76.5 % vs 23.5 %

France
47.3 % vs 52.7 %
Besides, in those 52.7 % 55.5 are... males.

Any thoughts about? What would be your explanation of the phenomenon?
I am curious to read you, guys.


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## shakti (Oct 10, 2012)

Ha ha, makes sense...maybe it has something to do with the fact that Continental Europe values intellectualism more?


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## I Kant (Jan 19, 2013)

Croissants boost intuition?


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## MNiS (Jan 30, 2010)

Interesting statistics. Not really surprising either as intellectualism is more accepted in the US now than twenty years ago but athleticism is still slightly favored compared to intellectualism.


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## Raawx (Oct 9, 2013)

Maybe something to do with Maslow's hierarchy of needs and socialism in France? I know there is socialism in the UK, but it doesn't seem as if it's to the same extent as on the continent.


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## MNiS (Jan 30, 2010)

Raawx said:


> Maybe something to do with Maslow's hierarchy of needs and socialism in France? I know there is socialism in the UK, but it doesn't seem as if it's to the same extent as on the continent.


The US has very few socialist institutions yet has a slightly higher proportion of intuitives to sensors than the UK.

What's likely is probably a mix of societal need, cultural appreciation and immigration patterns.


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## Doc Dangerstein (Mar 8, 2013)

... that cognitive preferences are a function of habit as they are brain structure? that the French education system encourages exploration and the American and Canadian conformity? that France is a culture of ideas whereas Britain and the US are a culture of facts? that the brain actually IS malleable and can influence personality?

... there's also a difference of philosophy towards education. Some places encourage education for learning's sake. Others push towards efficiency and pragmatism and preparing for the work force. One name: Frederick Winslow Taylor.


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## MNiS (Jan 30, 2010)

The Experiment said:


> ... that cognitive preferences are a function of habit as they are brain structure? that the French education system encourages exploration and the American and Canadian conformity? that France is a culture of ideas whereas Britain and the US are a culture of facts? that the brain actually IS malleable and can influence personality?
> 
> ... there's also a difference of philosophy towards education. Some places encourage education for learning's sake. Others push towards efficiency and pragmatism and preparing for the work force. One name: Frederick Winslow Taylor.


It depends on which aspect of the educational system you're referring to and in some cases which colleges you're speaking of. In the US, K-12 is for the most part, memorizing facts and reciting them for exams. Honors courses are taught differently but as a whole the education is factual. Also, students are taught to mainly think of themselves first, others second and to essentially fend for themselves in relation to their classmates. The lower educational system sucks (although I did enjoy Elementary school grades 1-5) and students who wish to continue their education only get through it to make way for college.

Post-secondary, college and university, students are given more freedom to explore their interests and are often encouraged to do so. While there is competition for grades, for the most part most colleges teach to foster a more collegiate atmosphere rather than one strictly of self-interest. 

There are also trade schools which teach practical trade and service skills and technical academies where only science, technology and engineering are taught with only basic liberal arts courses offered.


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## Doc Dangerstein (Mar 8, 2013)

... I never did go to school in Poland. I was too young when we left and my early years were in Limoges, France. Once I got over the shock of not knowing the language I remember our teachers encouraged rational thinking, understanding of text and I quite took to drawing buildings and looking at maps. We had adult books scattered throughout the classroom; an atlas, an encyclopaedia of space, another of animals. That sort of thing, and it was encouraged for us to help ourselves. Mind you; I could have been fortunate with my early teachers.

Canada came with another language barrier; my struggles with bullying that didn't stop until high school and a large degree of indoctrination, fighting and sleeping in class. My days were spend copying shit off the blackboard and doing pointless arithmetic exercises. Only good teacher I remember was this Hispanic man who was actually interesting and would sometimes bring books for us to flip to; or give us recommendations and this one science teacher. Everything else was pointless rote exercises. Highschool, I took to NT style courses but did half an undergrad in music. Which was hell; it felt like being in a monastery and I wanted to die. I thought if I could stick it out ... well, didn't end well. The reason I took maths and sciences in high school is because I never felt confident in my ability to write. We're really NOT a bilingual country. I slept in class, played truant or oogled girls or would hang around the music room and practice piano if I wanted alone time. If I took the MBTI in university I would have tested ISFJ/ISTJ but I was definitely not healthy. Maybe if I was pushed in that direction in my early years I could have been moulded into an SJ. Much like I wonder if I'm a really emotional, humanities driven ENTP. I'm also the only one in my family who doesn't see himself as a rational.

I was in Poland this autumn and found it to be more extroverted than Canada; and but not in a pushy way, and, I suspect there were more SPs then SJs. I didn't always have a chance to make extensive conversation but I did notice that there was a cultural shift towards E and P in comparison with Canada. This was Warsaw and Lodz for the most part, but I did spend a few nights in Krakow. With regards to my type, ENFP resonates the most once it I look past my disappointments and anxieties but I don't know how much is experience, how much is genetic and how much is my personal will to be everything I want to be.


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## Arclight (Feb 10, 2010)

Annesyl said:


> I am currently reading a book on personality types, written by 2 specialists who implemented MBTI in France about 20 years ago.
> I was really suprised to see how the S vs N proportion was varying between the US, UK and France.
> (I guess that's why we French go less over excited about being an N, super special and stuff).
> 
> ...


 Perhaps you could mention the name of the book and the authors?


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## deftonePassenger (Jun 18, 2012)

Seems more like 90/10 where I come from


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## Annesyl (Dec 20, 2013)

Arclight said:


> Perhaps you could mention the name of the book and the authors?


Les types de personnalité - broché - Pierre Cauvin, Geneviève Cailloux - Livre - Fnac.com
It is in French, "Personnality types" by Pierre Cauvin & Geneviève Cailloux (Oct 2013).
No fancy testing, just a clear explanation of the whole principle, cognitive functions and how they work in a professional environment; with some comparative data (EvsE, SvsN, TvsF, JvsP).
I got a 2 day MBTI training in the end of the month, so I just get myself prepared.


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## Annesyl (Dec 20, 2013)

I have always been amazed by this overwhelming accent on sports in US education (very S oriented).
They do not consider sports achievements to that point in France.


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## Arclight (Feb 10, 2010)

Annesyl said:


> Les types de personnalité - broché - Pierre Cauvin, Geneviève Cailloux - Livre - Fnac.com
> It is in French, "Personnality types" by Pierre Cauvin & Geneviève Cailloux (Oct 2013).
> No fancy testing, just a clear explanation of the whole principle, cognitive functions and how they work in a professional environment; with some comparative data (EvsE, SvsN, TvsF, JvsP).
> I got a 2 day MBTI training in the end of the month, so I just get myself prepared.


 Merci bein .. Je Gandi au Montreal . Je suis plutot capable a lire Le Francais bein que Ils ne pas parfait. 
Pour la plus part j'etais curious a rechercher les crednetials et les commentaires vers leur travail. 
Leur reclamations semblent un peu sensational. C'est tout et merci pout les information.


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## LadyO.W.BernieBro (Sep 4, 2010)

Annesyl said:


> I have always been amazed by this overwhelming accent on sports in US education (very S oriented).
> They do not consider sports achievements to that point in France.


Refreshing. Every boy l have ever truly liked hasn't been into sports...or cars.

One ENFP would sometimes try to pretend like he liked basketball around his male friends, but he couldn't really be assed.


l wouldn't say it makes one more sensory but l instantly respect a man who doesn't pretend to care about it if he doesn't.


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## Annesyl (Dec 20, 2013)

The Experiment said:


> ... that cognitive preferences are a function of habit as they are brain structure? that the French education system encourages exploration and the American and Canadian conformity? that France is a culture of ideas whereas Britain and the US are a culture of facts? that the brain actually IS malleable and can influence personality?
> 
> ... there's also a difference of philosophy towards education. Some places encourage education for learning's sake. Others push towards efficiency and pragmatism and preparing for the work force. One name: Frederick Winslow Taylor.


Thanks for that, I smiled. This made me think of my former ESTP manager who was deseperately trying to measure pretty everything by applying this kind of scientific method (I work in a French subsidiary of UK based company). 



Lady O.W. Bro said:


> Refreshing. Every boy l have ever truly liked hasn't been into sports...or cars.
> 
> One ENFP would sometimes try to pretend like he liked basketball around his male friends, but he couldn't really be assed.
> 
> ...


I guess this has nothing to do with MBTI but sincerity is always highly appreciated.
I like people who assume being different or a bit detached from something considered as standards.
More often than not intelligence can be 100 times sexier than just blunt muscles.

The above mentioned guy came to a fantastic conclusion that I was desperately lacking team spirit as I have never been excited by collective sports. I am just hell better at classical dancing and individual sports. Somehow I have always managed to get the ball onto my head :laughing:
We do not have this general leaning towards sports. OK you are not an athletic type, whatever, people do not care that much about.


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## Annesyl (Dec 20, 2013)

Arclight said:


> Merci bein .. Je Gandi au Montreal . Je suis plutot capable a lire Le Francais bein que Ils ne pas parfait.
> Pour la plus part j'etais curious a rechercher les crednetials et les commentaires vers leur travail.
> Leur reclamations semblent un peu sensational. C'est tout et merci pout les information.


Je vous en prie  Ce n'est pas grave pour les fautes, c'est l'effort qui compte.


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## Sabrah (Aug 6, 2013)

shakti said:


> Ha ha, makes sense...maybe it has something to do with the fact that Continental Europe values intellectualism more?


"Intellectualism" has nothing to do with it. Anyone with basic understanding of the cognitive functions would know that.


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## Sixty Nein (Feb 13, 2011)

Even if Europe was more intellectual than the US, you must remember that they are hella racist too. Considering that most of the people there seem to hate the romani people there as well at the uprising in anti-muslim sentiments. So uh...there. I guess the general trend would be that America becomes some sort socially liberal utopia or something as Eastern Europe turns to nazis. Not exactly sure what would happen to the rest of Europe though.

Maybe this just goes to show that the MBTI only tests outward behavour, it's the obvious thing that nobody really paid attention too. Or maybe cognitive functions could be selected from birth or something. Causing a sort of Intuitive ubermenshion who rules over the sensation based plebians.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Mmmm...I think culture influences how people may answer on self report dichotomy tests. 

I usually get INFP in relation, for example, to being raised primarily by two STJs I thought of myself as sensitive and imaginative in contrast to all of their Te structure and rules. Combine that with the fact that Se types consider themselves often big picture thinkers or less detailed in maintaining surrounding area than SJs and you have lots of SP mistyping as NP.

I think culture and individual contrast probably influences how people see themselves. How Jungian analysts would view them is another matter entirely.

I see myself as socially progressive for example, but was very closed off to technology until I was about twenty years old. That actually sounds more sensing in terms of dichotomy, I feared the unnatural, as I saw it, until I was more educated or my tertiary developed, now I am a huge lover of the internet...which is why I disagree that sensors aren't online. Everyone is online now. It was probably more true fifteen to twenty years ago.


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