# Halp! I am a Beta Male!



## Hollow Man (Aug 12, 2011)

I feel like I am a beta male a lot of the time and perhaps I have some bad traits. A lot of my behaviors and thought processes are reactive to actually being not good enough or attempting to find another way or just sometimes being a sad sack :crying:. Perhaps some of emotions and resentments are envy of other successful men(and successful women too, what the heck?![jovial tone]), and I would like to deal with that better. 

Anyone have advice or similar experiences? 

I am not certain of exactly how I want to be. I don't want to blame people entirely for what may have went wrong in my development. I don't really want to be at the top either or even seen as a tough guy or the boss...but I don't want to be a fool either or used. Hmmmm....maybe I am thinking too black and white?


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## Thomas60 (Aug 7, 2011)

How is the Libyan concept and conforming principles of masculinity significantly different from Europe or the West?
In my opinion, sometimes positive behaviors, etiquette, willingness to admit fault and improve oneself get relabeled as "beta" by insecure self-labelled "alpha's". Achieving social acceptance then can be at odds with personal values.

That being said, there's usually a way to keep working on ones own behavior to find valid opportunities to be assertive and stand one's ground. Plus, eventually I hope we come to see this form of social labeling is a load of bull* anyway.


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## Another Lost Cause (Oct 6, 2015)

You should take some time out and just work on yourself, try to understand what it is you want to be, and then become what it is you think you should be. That will build confidence in you and it will probably show naturally. Also, it's quite possible you have some emotional issues from your past you need to confront, maybe unrealistic expectations or a million other things. Getting those out of the way can help a lot.


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## General Lee Awesome (Sep 28, 2014)

do not even focus on beta male, or alpha male mentality. human have far too many dimensions to be accurately measured by purely animalistic traits. Of course, there those people who came up with a list of character for "alpha human males", but those are super subjective, and change depends on who you ask.

I say, identify the qualities you have, and see which one are benefitual to you and which ones are not. just remember, as human we need to adapt, so, the traits we have might or might not be benefitual in all situations. I say play within your strength. 

P.S obviously there are traits which is undesirable at any given situation, try to find out what they are, and the reason why you are expressing these traits. 

ie, if you like to lie, find out why you lie. to avoid consquences? sensitive? etc, and try to overcome it.


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## Catwalk (Aug 12, 2015)

Here's a nice _joke_ --

What does a Beta do when it's looking for a mate?

It goes *fishing*.


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## angelfish (Feb 17, 2011)

IMO, ditch the Beta viewpoint. There are enough fucking "Alpha" males, and while there are some awesome, healthy Alpha-esque guys, a lot of others are narcissistic douchebags. You're a man with some healthy qualities and behaviors and some less healthy qualities and behaviors. Emphasize your strengths and try to make genuine progress on your weaknesses. The world could really use some compassionate, slower-paced, more socially-minded males.


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## Cephalonimbus (Dec 6, 2010)

The Fool in your avatar knows what's up. He's much wiser than he may seem: he's joyful, careless, lives in the moment and appreciates the beauty of the world in all its glory. He leads a more fulfilling life than most people do, and one of the reasons for this is that he doesn't waste time worrying about whether or not he's a beta male 

Forget for a moment what society expects of you (or what you think it expects of you -- those two don't always match). What's important to YOU? I'm not necessarily talking in terms of worldly ambitions, but more in terms of core values. IME, if you stick to your principles, people will not walk over you even if you're not a macho man. I'm far from a tough guy but people haven't really tied to fuck with me since the 90s. That's when I stopped trying to please people and started living in accordance to my own values (it's still a work in progress lol).


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## Vahyavishdapaya (Sep 2, 2014)

Grow a pair and don't let nobody give you any shit.

Alphas are just betas who know how to front. Omegas are where it's at and unlike alpha you can't become an omega because you're muscular or financially successful.


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## StElmosDream (May 26, 2012)

@OdetoBegin
'Alpha' and 'beta' are loaded terms, akin to me (imagining) telling others that I caring sensitive person; sensitive to what? but what is actually cared about (dogs, children, the elderly?).
So called betas could just as easily call themselves emotionally sensitive, concerned about others or peacekeepers, whatever terms or sentiments people use the real issue is extremes with self perceived 'alpha males' that experience a need to dominate or denigrate others, or people that become submissive to the point of lacking healthy boundaries, becoming prone to abuse or letting others define them as people.
Gendered socialising expectations and societal 'norms' often say more about others than the labels individuals are given sadly, especially for those that on some level reject the all too common notions of the person they should be based on biological sex, a name or social groups available to 'define or model collective norms' for them.


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## Hollow Man (Aug 12, 2011)

Thomas60 said:


> How is the Libyan concept and conforming principles of masculinity significantly different from Europe or the West?


I am not Libyan, I just like an all green flag.


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## marblecloud95 (Aug 12, 2015)

Step 1, shave the neckbeard
Step 2, move out of your parent's basement
Step 3, stop Holding such a simplistic view of people and yourself


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## aef8234 (Feb 18, 2012)

marblecloud95 said:


> Step 1, shave the neckbeard
> Step 2, move out of your parent's basement
> Step 3, stop Holding such a simplistic view of people and yourself


Did you skim through the thing?

You skimmed didn't you?

Shame.



Also, to OP.






YOU'RE WELCOME.


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## RantnRave (May 1, 2015)

OdetoBegin said:


> I feel like I am a beta male a lot of the time and perhaps I have some bad traits. A lot of my behaviors and thought processes are reactive to actually being not good enough or attempting to find another way or just sometimes being a sad sack :crying:. Perhaps some of emotions and resentments are envy of other successful men(and successful women too, what the heck?![jovial tone]), and I would like to deal with that better.
> 
> Anyone have advice or similar experiences?
> 
> I am not certain of exactly how I want to be. I don't want to blame people entirely for what may have went wrong in my development. I don't really want to be at the top either or even seen as a tough guy or the boss...but I don't want to be a fool either or used. Hmmmm....maybe I am thinking too black and white?


Being Alpha is pretty much being comfortable in your own skin. Accept your perceived weaknesses and focus on your strengths.

Alpha's often lack compassion which is something that in my opinion isn't "Alpha". Suck it up and quit being a pussy is not an "Alpha" comment, it's a lack of emotional intelligence.

True Alpha's know when to teach and when to listen. Don't feel that your emotions are keeping you from being more. Utilize your emotions and let them help you be a better leader. 

Envy is a bi-product of low self esteem. Let's turn the tables here. Being jealous of someone who is wealthy means that you believe wealth is part of being a successful person. Money is just paper. It does not make you a good or bad person. It does not help you feel more compassion for others, it does not help you become a better teacher.

Only those in the game of "who has the bigger bank account" care about a number from an automated machine. I used to lack a lot of emotion but I worked on it to see what it is all about. Compassion is one of the most important characteristics of a good leader. Maybe Captain America or Ironman can save a city from destruction. The people who do the clean up are just as important.


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## Aya the Abysswalker (Mar 23, 2012)

Stop calling yourself a Beta and improve upon your bad traits.


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## Sporadic Aura (Sep 13, 2009)

Thats alright, we're all _something_.


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## Hollow Man (Aug 12, 2011)

Lucifel said:


> Stop calling yourself a Beta and improve upon your bad traits.


Okay, that's a start.



Sporadic Aura said:


> Thats alright, we're all _something_.


That's true.


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## Eggsies (Feb 5, 2013)

Find a goal, or a source to your happiness. Does it detriment yourself, or those close to you that provide you any support? If no, continue to strive towards that.

Applied to anything, grand or minuscule, this is all the preconception you need.

Disregard the alpha/beta dogshit. Circlejerking at best. 

If you want to subscribe to a mindset that is designed to make you feel irrationally upset and incapable in failure, instead of actively learning and adapting, by all means I guess. Negative reinforcement as a part of anything is foolishly arbitrary.

Bottom line, when you're on your death bed, you probably won't be thinking about how alpha you managed to be.


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## Hero of Freedom (Nov 23, 2014)

"Alpha" and "Beta" debunked by one of its own creators:






Yo, dudes: Alpha males are a myth, according to actual experts on wolves | we hunted the mammoth

https://sistemaperalta.wordpress.com/2014/06/30/that-alpha-male-stuff-is-bullshit/

Ninjaed! Links debunking the pseudoscience of alpha status and social dominance | Hoyden About Town


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## Caveman Dreams (Nov 3, 2015)

OdetoBegin said:


> I feel like I am a beta male a lot of the time and perhaps I have some bad traits. A lot of my behaviors and thought processes are reactive to actually being not good enough or attempting to find another way or just sometimes being a sad sack :crying:. Perhaps some of emotions and resentments are envy of other successful men(and successful women too, what the heck?![jovial tone]), and I would like to deal with that better.
> 
> Anyone have advice or similar experiences?
> 
> I am not certain of exactly how I want to be. I don't want to blame people entirely for what may have went wrong in my development. I don't really want to be at the top either or even seen as a tough guy or the boss...but I don't want to be a fool either or used. Hmmmm....maybe I am thinking too black and white?


You need to decide what you want to be in life and stick to that path.

There going to be people who are more successful and who have achieved what you want to achieve.

But instead of jealousy and envy, use them as inspiration in the fact that if they can do it, you can do it.

But it wont come overnight, its the process of life. But the more positive changes you make, the more positive feedback you will get, even if you you make a 0.03% improvement, in 3 months your life will be better than it is now.


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## Maye (Feb 15, 2015)

There seems to be lots of pressure on the internet in self help topics to be an "alpha male". I don't think that's really a good description of what being a strong, respectable man is. Look at dogs, for example. Some are pack leaders, while others, while useful and healthy, have less socially ambitious personalities. 

I get what you mean about doing stuff as a reaction to not being "good enough". I have the same experience with my anxiety. 

You don't have to be the opposite of what you are now. Maybe you are designed to be a bit more cautious and a bit less extroverted than some of the other people in your life. That's not a bad thing, and it doesn't make you any less of a capable person. 

There's a quote I like that says something like this: "progress happens when we stop caring about how things seem, and start caring about how they are". You don't have to work towards being a "confident person", just try to do the right thing, try work on yourself because its good for you.


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## Caveman Dreams (Nov 3, 2015)




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## Hollow Man (Aug 12, 2011)

I feel like starting this thread has been a huge mistake on account of my reputation as a PerCer, but when I think about it more, it isn't so bad. What does it matter? At least I was honest in the moment that I feel kind of powerless (I still feel that way, it's really hard to apply at jobs and get myself out there, I worry a lot for personal reasons, I have a job now, but it's just been too long and there's pressure to do more) and that I can't really do all that much. When I think that way, it kind of gets me to think of what can I do differently or is this really a relevant way of poses a question? Sometimes I can catch a wave and do good things too with energy. At first when I started this thread, I felt fairly good, like hey I said something honest...but when it was time to look...I didn't want to look, but the thread wasn't too bad...thanks for the mostly great advice! 

I have to be more careful with the language I use and how I define myself and maybe others as well. Somehow I am more forgiving to others than myself because I feel I have responsibility and I should/could be able to change my behaviors and thoughts but so frequently I don't. I know I can't change people too easily, so I don't expect people to change all that much...and I know labeling is BS to other people. 

I need a backbone and to spend time with people that I actually enjoy spending time with. This takes practice and preparation. Hmmm...The backbone is a hard thing to achieve, but I guess if 
*"But if the arrow is straight
And the point is slick
It can pierce through dust no matter how thick"*


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## Rhonda Rousey (Sep 22, 2015)

Thomas60 said:


> How is the Libyan concept and conforming principles of masculinity significantly different from Europe or the West?
> In my opinion, sometimes positive behaviors, etiquette, willingness to admit fault and improve oneself get relabeled as "beta" by insecure self-labelled "alpha's". Achieving social acceptance then can be at odds with personal values.
> 
> That being said, there's usually a way to keep working on ones own behavior to find valid opportunities to be assertive and stand one's ground. Plus, eventually I hope we come to see this form of social labeling is a load of bull* anyway.


Pretty sure self-growth and admitting your fault are alpha traits.


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## angeleyes (Feb 20, 2013)

Learn to play guitar? Works for a lot of guys.


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## MisterPerfect (Nov 20, 2015)

Thomas60 said:


> How is the Libyan concept and conforming principles of masculinity significantly different from Europe or the West?
> In my opinion, sometimes positive behaviors, etiquette, willingness to admit fault and improve oneself get relabeled as "beta" by insecure self-labelled "alpha's". Achieving social acceptance then can be at odds with personal values.
> 
> That being said, there's usually a way to keep working on ones own behavior to find valid opportunities to be assertive and stand one's ground. Plus, eventually I hope we come to see this form of social labeling is a load of bull* anyway.


Actually no, being an alpha means being able to take care of the pack. If you cant take care of the pack you are not a very good Alpha. That means being able to keep the peace, and make sure the pack is not all trying to kill each other. So realistically an alpha should be likable or trusted to some degree. Being a total asshole will actually put off a good number of people.


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## karibaby (Dec 31, 2013)

I think you need to establish boundaries for yourself and when or if others overstep that boundary let them know. Be honest with yourself and others(If you don't want to do something say no. don't be worried about if they will be angry if you say no) Then you'll discover/figure out how you want to be.


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## Toru Okada (May 10, 2011)

Lol essentially "alpha" and "beta" are just colloquial terms for high and low functioning men. They aren't going away. Anyway, @_OdetoBegin_ You've already identified the problem, most likely because the world has thrown it in your face. so you're already going in the right direction. You said you need a backbone. Try finding your individual preferences and holding fast to them if you don't already. Don't be a follower, most people just go the safe route to be acceptable, but that's boring. Practice solid eye contact and poise, especially with those who might intimidate you. Walk with posture like you own the place; I've noticed I get positive psychological kickback when my body language is confident. When you want to say something, just say it. Even if people might not like to hear it (within reason, reserve your most autistic tendencies for the internet). Disagree if you disagree, but be able to explain yourself. Don't let people slide if they treat you poorly, assert your worth and/or cut them out. But overall be somewhat careless with trivial things. Most of it does not matter. Do what you want to do but do what you have to do.


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## Mair (Feb 17, 2014)

Just lift bro.


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## Fumetsu (Oct 7, 2015)

angelfish said:


> IMO, ditch the Beta viewpoint. There are enough fucking "Alpha" males, and while there are some awesome, healthy Alpha-esque guys, a lot of others are narcissistic douchebags. You're a man with some healthy qualities and behaviors and some less healthy qualities and behaviors. Emphasize your strengths and try to make genuine progress on your weaknesses. The world could really use some compassionate, slower-paced, more socially-minded males.



I really hate this "Alpha" "Beta" bullshit.

When I first read the thread title I thought " Help! I'm using terminology like "Beta Male!"

I actually never heard anyone in the real world use these terms. Only once I started spending time internet did I start to hear this terminology and as we all know guys on the internet tend to be emotionally mature, and socially conscious. You will never find a bitter, sad sack among them. So, yes if you do not wish to be lonely anymore I would definitely recommend continuing to follow in their footsteps.

Seriously, just do what you are best at.


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## huhh (Apr 15, 2015)

be true

be grounded


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## Hollow Man (Aug 12, 2011)

Ha! I am not even sure if I can even classify as a beta (for better or for worse). For a lot of my life I've just been too awkward or incompetent to even be a "beta provider" for more than a short term of time for a lady. 

Right now I have to work more with facing my fears instead of escaping. I have to find a way to make money that doesn't completely make me anxious. I have to monitor my thoughts, emotions a lot more and do something more productive. I have to become a better communicator and to chime in when I don't agree with people or ask people for more clarity or help when I am misunderstanding. 

Anyways, thanks for the feedback... I am surprised this thread came back.


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## Popinjay (Sep 19, 2011)

You have come to an understanding of your most fundamental nature. You have become an introspective scholar...an intellectual...an elitist.

You are...omicron as fuck. Burn your 'I'm a beta' fashionwares and celebrate.


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## Hero of Freedom (Nov 23, 2014)

OdetoBegin said:


> Ha! I am not even sure if I can even classify as a beta (for better or for worse). For a lot of my life I've just been too awkward or incompetent to even be a "beta provider" for more than a short term of time for a lady.
> 
> Right now I have to work more with facing my fears instead of escaping. I have to find a way to make money that doesn't completely make me anxious. I have to monitor my thoughts, emotions a lot more and do something more productive. I have to become a better communicator and to chime in when I don't agree with people or ask people for more clarity or help when I am misunderstanding.
> 
> Anyways, thanks for the feedback... I am surprised this thread came back.


Also you are part of an extremely oppressed group of people who are so because of the social hierarchy, that's all. Follow the advice of the person above and help the campaign to smash gender roles. Use the pain you have suffered from your oppression to empower yourself and rise up to become a person who will bring change and destroy this "gender role" bullcrap. Give 0 crap about any "social norms", rebel against them instead and be yourself. Do what you like and fight back against any who try to marginalize you for it. Become a social-libertarian/social-anarchist, "social norms" are for cowards.

We must all work together and fight to create a society/humanity that revolves around an eye for an eye, impartiality and absolute fairness.


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