# Teens



## chip (Oct 12, 2011)

Say you're in a relationship. Ok? Alright. 

Say your significant other thinks a 15 year old boy/girl is attractive. Ok? Alright.

What are your thoughts on this hypothetical situation?


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## Cetanu (Jan 20, 2012)

They have no integrity.

Talk to them.

If they do not want to take steps towards having some form of integrity: stop talking to them (as in, forever)


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Someone who shows a preference for someone of this age group is what we would call an ephobophile. Their attraction is _emotionally inappropriate_ if they are an adult, especially if they are an adult over 20, 21 or so. People who are attracted to people still going through puberty have issues. When you call them on it, they will try to project, saying that YOU are the one with the problem, that what they feel is the way it's supposed to be. Remind them that the peak reproductive years actually aren't during puberty, that even males don't reach a sexual peak until the late teens and early twenties, and that women reach their sexual peak in their 30's. 

Some people will argue that if a girl is old enough to menstruate she is old enough to have sex with an adult, and vice versa for a boy who ejaculates. 

These people willfully ignore science; science says the brain isn't fully developed during the teen years; neither is the body, actually. A woman's hips, for example, are better prepared for childbirth in the late - not early - teens. 

Because I bet this person will try to make you feel bad. I've noticed this A LOT with ephobophiles and hebephiles. They fetishize youth to a point to where they act like youth in and of itself is a form of human superiority, and it's only natural that they'd want to be near it.

If they make these kinds of arguments, just tell them that it's only natural that you'd want to be with an adult who prefers the company of other adults.


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## android654 (Jan 19, 2010)

What do they do? Do they simply say that's a good looking kid, or are they describing the kid sexually? It's kind of important to elaborate on that.


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## dann (Feb 11, 2012)

Is the girl well physically developed or does she look like a little girl? If its the latter then there's a term for that: pedophilia! Thinking about it now, I suppose you can't hold it against someone if they find that sexually arousing...it's whether they act on those desires that counts.


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## chip (Oct 12, 2011)

dann said:


> Is the girl well physically developed or does she look like a little girl? If its the latter then there's a term for that: pedophilia! Thinking about it now, I suppose you can't hold it against someone if they find that sexually arousing...it's whether they act on those desires that counts.



Well, my fiance found girls attractive that are 15 when he was..15 lols, same for me, and I don't anymore so I don't see what the big deal is. That's kind of groady imo. Teenager personalities seems way too immature to ever consider seeing them in that light anyway.


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## StElmosDream (May 26, 2012)

Whether or not societal rape laws apply or questioning the definition of 'legal mutual consent' when many 15-18 year old girls don't get ID'd in bars nearly as much as males in the UK, for example.


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## dann (Feb 11, 2012)

A man grows more handsome with age so I'm sure you don't find 15 y/o boys attractive. However it's not quite the same for a girl. A girl can be in her teens and quite sexually appealing (just think of all tthe men who were waiting for Britney spears to turn 18
back in her heyday...or better yet, marykate and Ashley Olson)

The maturity level I agree with...however I ask referring to purely physical qualities


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## chip (Oct 12, 2011)

dann said:


> A man grows more handsome with age so I'm sure you don't find 15 y/o boys attractive. However it's not quite the same for a girl. A girl can be in her teens and quite sexually appealing (just think of all tthe men who were waiting for Britney spears to turn 18
> back in her heyday...or better yet, marykate and Ashley Olson)
> 
> The maturity level I agree with...however I ask referring to purely physical qualities


So I guess it's ok to think a 15 year old is hot but it's not to find a 15 year old male hot. Mmk.


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## dann (Feb 11, 2012)

chip said:


> So I guess it's ok to think a 15 year old is hot but it's not to find a 15 year old male hot. Mmk.


I wouldn't say it's "ok" for either case. However I can see the reason why some people find teens physically (sexually) attractive. I think it's more common for men to find younger women attractive than vice versa for my aforentioned reason, however there certainly cases where women find young boys sexy. Look at Justin Bieber


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## chip (Oct 12, 2011)

dann said:


> I wouldn't say it's "ok" for either case. However I can see the reason why some people find teens physically (sexually) attractive. I think it's more common for men to find younger women attractive than vice versa for my aforentioned reason, however there certainly cases where women find young boys sexy. Look at Justin Bieber



I don't understand it personally because I have always found people attractive by their personalities ,not how they look.


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## dann (Feb 11, 2012)

chip said:


> I don't understand it personally because I have always found people attractive by their personalities ,not how they look.


Yes!! You bring up a good point. For the most part women place more emphasis on personality than physical appearance in comparison to men, which is another reason why its more common to see men attracted to teenage girls than vice versa. 

These are of course sweeping generalizations so women don't attack me saying you need a man that's hot stuff and men don't tell me how you need a emotional connection with someone before you're ready to bone.


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## chip (Oct 12, 2011)

dann said:


> Yes!! You bring up a good point. For the most part women place more emphasis on personality than physical appearance in comparison to men, which is another reason why its more common to see men attracted to teenage girls than vice versa.
> 
> These are of course sweeping generalizations so women don't attack me saying you need a man that's hot stuff and men don't tell me how you need a emotional connection with someone before you're ready to bone.


Yeah, my partner feels the same way as me, he says he is a demisexual, too.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

dann said:


> Yes!! You bring up a good point. For the most part women place more emphasis on personality than physical appearance in comparison to men, which is another reason why its more common to see men attracted to teenage girls than vice versa.
> 
> These are of course sweeping generalizations so women don't attack me saying you need a man that's hot stuff and men don't tell me how you need a emotional connection with someone before you're ready to bone.


"to bone"

for some reason i luld


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## dann (Feb 11, 2012)

Promethea said:


> "to bone"
> 
> for some reason i luld


I'm glad!


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## SuburbanLurker (Sep 26, 2010)

I'd question their intelligence for expressing such a taboo opinion to someone brought up in a culture that thinks people who find 15 year olds sexually attractive are in the same category as people who molest prepubescent children. But aside from western society's strange and warped views of attraction and sexuality, 15 year old girls are often finished puberty and fully capable of looking older than they are, so I wouldn't say there's an inherent problem.

*questions own intelligence*


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## KateMarie999 (Dec 20, 2011)

Would it be weird if they saw a picture of you at that age and said it was an attractive picture? I think that would be a bit different...


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## Navi (Jul 8, 2012)

SuburbanLurker said:


> I'd question their intelligence for expressing such a taboo opinion to someone brought up in a culture that thinks people who find 15 year olds sexually attractive are in the same category as people who molest prepubescent children. But aside from western society's strange and warped views of attraction and sexuality, 15 year old girls are often finished puberty and fully capable of looking older than they are, so I wouldn't say there's an inherent problem.
> 
> *questions own intelligence*


Hmm, that's a pretty warped view but....okay. Your post screams passive-aggressiveness as well as self-righteousness, but eh.
I'm just going to quote fourtines anyways. 





fourtines said:


> Someone who shows a preference for someone of this age group is what we would call an ephobophile. Their attraction is _emotionally inappropriate_ if they are an adult, especially if they are an adult over 20, 21 or so. People who are attracted to people still going through puberty have issues. When you call them on it, they will try to project, saying that YOU are the one with the problem, that what they feel is the way it's supposed to be. Remind them that the peak reproductive years actually aren't during puberty, that even males don't reach a sexual peak until the late teens and early twenties, and that women reach their sexual peak in their 30's.
> 
> Some people will argue that if a girl is old enough to menstruate she is old enough to have sex with an adult, and vice versa for a boy who ejaculates.
> 
> ...


 @_Paradox1987_ and I talked about this.
He has some pretty damn good insight on this.
@Boss's insight is also very deep.


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## bombsaway (Nov 29, 2011)

I think there are two ways of looking at this. Is it a 15 year old girl in school uniform who still looks young or a 15 year old girl done up in such a way to show her sexuality? If it is the girl's aim to show off her sexual maturity by presenting herself in such a way then I'd go as far as to say that it's unfair to blame the other person for being attracted to them. The problem would only be a problem if the person knew she was 15 (rather than mistaking her for being slightly older because of the image portrayed) and still acted on that sexual desire. 

I think being attracted to a 15 year old girl who looks her age is an issue that would need to be addressed and so would be the case with a 15 year old boy as it's unlikely he'll look much older compared to the fully developed girl with make up to hand.

For all intense and purposes, however, a 15 year old girl is biologically ready for sex and many other countries accept that. The reason it is considered wrong is because we view them emotionally and mentally as children still.


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## SuburbanLurker (Sep 26, 2010)

Navi said:


> Hmm, that's a pretty warped view but....okay. Your post screams passive-aggressiveness as well as self-righteousness, but eh.
> I'm just going to quote fourtines anyways.


Projection much? Who's trying to make who feel bad now?

Finding one 15 year old attractive != having a preference for people of that age group.


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## Navi (Jul 8, 2012)

Tristan427 said:


> Do you have evidence fertility has shifted to such a degree? I have not read that anywhere.
> 
> Exactly, we are programmed to be attracted to those that appear fertile and healthy, and while regular menstrual periods may be a factor, it is not a deal breaker.


Yes, we do. I actually have some books and studies that I will link to and recommend later, if you would like. 


And it is still an important factor, as it is an important component of the other general health and fertility indicators. Again, it has shifted.
I'll PM you some more studies, too.


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## Tristan427 (Dec 9, 2011)

Navi said:


> Yes, we do. I actually have some books and studies that I will link to and recommend later, if you would like.
> 
> 
> And it is still an important factor, as it is an important component of the other general health and fertility indicators. Again, it has shifted.
> I'll PM you some more studies, too.


Interesting. Thank you.


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## android654 (Jan 19, 2010)

Shinji Mimura said:


> Not true. You've obviously never pity fucked before.


Once. But she was good looking, that makes it easier.


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## chip (Oct 12, 2011)

Tristan427 said:


> I understand why older men find 15 or 16 year old girls hot, but I don't see the same happening with women. Not once have I encountered a woman who found males in my age group hot.


When I was 24, I found a 17 year old attractive but for his personality more than anything.


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## Shinji Mimura (Aug 1, 2012)

Tristan427 said:


> Still, from an *evolutionary* standpoint it is* normal* for older men to find women in that age group attractive. It doesn't necessarily mean he's going to go out and do something with them.


Where the FUCK do you get your science from? That isn't how life works at all dood :/

Also, plenty of older girls have gotten with teenage boys before. The reason why it's less common is because older women are typically trying to get away from being played, not going towards it (that and they're too busy being played by older men they presume to be more mature).


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## chip (Oct 12, 2011)

Tristan427 said:


> Still, from an evolutionary standpoint it is normal for older men to find women in that age group attractive. It doesn't necessarily mean he's going to go out and do something with them.


I don't agree with this. My fiance says he's not attracted to those age ranges.


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## Tristan427 (Dec 9, 2011)

Shinji Mimura said:


> Where the FUCK do you get your science from? That isn't how life works at all dood :/
> 
> Also, plenty of older girls have gotten with teenage boys before. The reason why it's less common is because older women are typically trying to get away from being played, not going towards it (that and they're too busy being played by older men they presume to be more mature).


Where do you get yours from? I care little for your perception as to how life works. 

I've personally never seen it.
@chip: You said he found a 15 year old attractive.


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## chip (Oct 12, 2011)

Tristan427 said:


> Where do you get yours from? I care little for your perception as to how life works.
> 
> I've personally never seen it.
> @_chip_: You said he found a 15 year old attractive.


When he was 15.


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## Shinji Mimura (Aug 1, 2012)

Tristan427 said:


> Where do you get yours from? I care little for your perception as to how life works.


No, seriously, where is your science? Where is your evidence? I'm curious, because I was once an evolutionary biology minor, and I've never once heard that.

So, by all means, please give me a website or some sort of backing to your claim that, somehow, evolution has made older men attracted to younger women.

My body is ready.


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## Tristan427 (Dec 9, 2011)

chip said:


> When he was 15.


Then what is this whole topic about? I don't see the problem.


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## Tristan427 (Dec 9, 2011)

Shinji Mimura said:


> No, seriously, where is your science? Where is your evidence? I'm curious, because I was once an evolutionary biology minor, and I've never once heard that.
> 
> So, by all means, please give me a website or some sort of backing to your claim that, somehow, evolution has made older men attracted to younger women.
> 
> My body is ready.


Once? Perhaps you dropped out before you got to that part. I've read some college anthropology books, and that is present in quite a few. Anthropology and evolution are quite tied together. 

They don't necessarily have to be younger. They just have to be fertile. And older men have been known to be attracted to girls in the teenage age area. In the early days, girls were given to marriage pretty soon after their first period because that signaled they were capable to have children. Sure, may not be the most healthy thing, but reproduction was the goal. And even though the first period didn't necessarily mean they could have kids, they didn't have science like we do now. Certain behaviors stick with us.


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## Navi (Jul 8, 2012)

chip said:


> I don't agree with this. My fiance says he's not attracted to those age ranges.





Shinji Mimura said:


> Where the FUCK do you get your science from? That isn't how life works at all dood :/


These. Obviously, things will not be the exact same as the neolithic period. 
I will provide the links later for you once I am finished with my work, @Tristan427 .


As for your 15 year old ex-girlfriend; if I know a thing or two about your tastes, @Shinji Mimura, she definitely was a very early bloomer, yes? :laughing:
Jokes aside though, oh my god. I have no idea where to begin.
This thread was in desperate need of your Shinji-ness.


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## Shinji Mimura (Aug 1, 2012)

@Tristan427 - Oh, so you meant historically? Because you said evolution, which is biology, and your explanation is purely historical.

What you're talking about is, honestly, irrelevant. Older men weren't "attracted" to younger girls in those days, it's just that girls who were fertile, as you pointed out, were basically their father's property to be passed on to men who were well-to-do. That's more a title/honor/property thing, not so much attraction. Besides, there's also been a stigma towards older women not getting married or being without man, as well as a stigma on independent women, which plays a factor as to why some men might strategically invest in a younger girl.
@Navi - Oh, an early bloomer indeed. In fact, she still blossoms with me til this day 

's all good. I don't think I've seen you around in a while. Gladja missed me love<3


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## Navi (Jul 8, 2012)

Tristan427 said:


> Once?
> 
> They don't necessarily have to be younger. They just have to be fertile. And older men have been known to be attracted to girls in the teenage age area. In the early days, girls were given to marriage pretty soon after their first period because that signaled they were capable to have children. Sure, may not be the most healthy thing, but reproduction was the goal.


Keyword: Early days. Remember to take into consideration the life expectancy. A 14 year old girl in the Bronze Age who just had her period would be married off to say, a 17 year old boy.
The girl would have approximately 12 more years until she dies, if she dies at the average age.
If the boy lives until the average age, he will have 9 more years to go. This does not count the life expectancy at an older age in some periods, mind you, but still is very important. 

Especially when you consider environmental factors that differ from community to community. Adapting to survive is very important. 
The European Black Death is also to take into consideration, to those with European ancestry.


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## SuburbanLurker (Sep 26, 2010)

@Navi's reference fertility has nothing to do with biology much less an evolution thereof. 

If you want a more accurate gauge, try looking up the average age of first intercourse (it's 17 in America, with 30% of women having had sex at 16, and most assuredly lower in many countries). Even that indicator is influenced by culture (eg. religion, level of taboo amongst peers etc.), but not so much by economic factors.



> Keyword: Early days. Remember to take into consideration the life expectancy. A 14 year old girl in the Bronze Age who just had her period would be married off to say, a 17 year old boy.
> The girl would have approximately 12 more years until she dies, if she dies at the average age.
> If the boy lives until the average age, he will have 9 more years to go.


That's not how things work. The reason average life expectancy was so low in those days is in large part due to extremely, unfathomably high (by today's standards) infant/child mortality rates. Once they'd make it past the first few years of their life their odds of outliving the average life expectancy increased greatly. This isn't the case today because our infant mortality rates are negligible.


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## Navi (Jul 8, 2012)

Shinji Mimura said:


> @_Tristan427_ - Oh, so you meant historically? Because you said evolution, which is biology, and your explanation is purely historical.
> 
> What you're talking about is, honestly, irrelevant. Older men weren't "attracted" to younger girls in those days, it's just that girls who were fertile, as you pointed out, were basically their father's property to be passed on to men who were well-to-do. That's more a title/honor/property thing, not so much attraction. Besides, there's also been a stigma towards older women not getting married or being without man, as well as a stigma on independent women, which plays a factor as to why some men might strategically invest in a younger girl.
> @_Navi_ - Oh, an early bloomer indeed. In fact, she still blossoms with me til this day
> ...


^ Exactly this. 

I haven't seen you in a while, either. And hehe, who doesn't miss Shinji?


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## Tristan427 (Dec 9, 2011)

Shinji Mimura said:


> @_Tristan427_ - Oh, so you meant historically? Because you said evolution, which is biology, and your explanation is purely historical.
> 
> What you're talking about is, honestly, irrelevant. Older men weren't "attracted" to younger girls in those days, it's just that girls who were fertile, as you pointed out, were basically their father's property to be passed on to men who were well-to-do. That's more a title/honor/property thing, not so much attraction. Besides, there's also been a stigma towards older women not getting married or being without man, as well as a stigma on independent women, which plays a factor as to why some men might strategically invest in a younger girl.
> @_Navi_ - Oh, an early bloomer indeed. In fact, she still blossoms with me til this day
> ...


I see.


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## Navi (Jul 8, 2012)

SuburbanLurker said:


> @_Navi_'s reference to the rise in age of average fertility has nothing to do with biology much less an evolution thereof. It varies greatly from country to country and has wildly fluctuated over time for various _economic and cultural _reasons. Simply put, people make a conscious decision to have babies when their life seems ready for the responsibility.
> 
> If you want a more accurate gauge, try looking up the average age of first intercourse (it's 17 in America, with 30% of women having had sex at 16, and most assuredly lower in many countries). Even that indicator is influenced by culture (eg. religion, level of taboo amongst peers etc.), but not so much by economic factors.



While that is still very important, it is still to take into consideration (what I pointed out).

That is another thing altogether, though. In other countries where it is lower, say...Sweden.
A 15 year old Swedish girl will most likely have intercourse with someone in her age group.

This also relates to what OP stated earlier about 15 year olds being attracted to other 15 year olds in their age group.
Again, for obvious reasons.


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## chip (Oct 12, 2011)

Tristan427 said:


> Then what is this whole topic about? I don't see the problem.


It's not about him, it's an example of many guys who find them attractive.


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## Shinji Mimura (Aug 1, 2012)

Navi said:


> ^ Exactly this.
> 
> I haven't seen you in a while, either. And hehe, *who doesn't miss Shinji?*


<3

*shrug* I figure only @Ningsta Kitty misses me
@chip - I'm not totally sure why you keep making such blanketed, stereotypical threads. First you ask whether ALL men "ogle" women, now you're asking if ALL men find teenage girls attractive (well, you aren't directly asking, but it seems to be an indirect intention).

I don't know why you keep finding such pathetic examples of men, but methinks this may be a productive of your lack of raising your standards and learning from your past failures.

Perhaps I'm misconstruing you, and if that's the case feel free to correct me, but, yeah, I fail to see the problem. People find others attractive. It's a thing.


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## SuburbanLurker (Sep 26, 2010)

Navi said:


> While that is still very important, it is still to take into consideration (what I pointed out).
> 
> That is another thing altogether, though. In other countries where it is lower, say...Sweden.
> A 15 year old Swedish girl will most likely have intercourse with someone in her age group.
> ...


Are you claiming that 50 year olds are more _physically_ attracted to other 50 year olds, rather than much younger people? Or that 15 year olds aren't sexually attracted to adults? The reason people are more likely to have sex with others in their own age group is the same reason they're more likely to do _anything_ with people in their age group. 15 year olds generally don't hang around people who are way older or younger. It's psychologically grounded, not physiologically.


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## chip (Oct 12, 2011)

Shinji Mimura said:


> <3
> 
> *shrug* I figure only @_Ningsta Kitty_ misses me
> @_chip_ - I'm not totally sure why you keep making such blanketed, stereotypical threads. First you ask whether ALL men "ogle" women, now you're asking if ALL men find teenage girls attractive (well, you aren't directly asking, but it seems to be an indirect intention).
> ...


Not everyone has the same stereotypical issues. I write to write, as examples, especially as a gauge for a response.


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## Navi (Jul 8, 2012)

SuburbanLurker said:


> Are you claiming that 50 year olds are more _physically_ attracted to other 50 year olds, rather than much younger people? Or that 15 year olds aren't sexually attracted to adults? The reason people are more likely to have sex with others in their own age group is the same reason they're more likely to do _anything_ with people in their age group. 15 year olds generally don't hang around people who are way older or younger. It's psychologically grounded, not physiologically.


Again, that is true they are more likely to do anything with their own age group. 
But a 50 year old is normally not more physically attracted to a 15 year old. More so, say, a 27 year old.
A 15 year old normally is not more physically attracted to a 50 year old. While they are attracted to adults in the 20's range, they are more so attracted to their own age group and more in-tune with them.
Normally, teenagers can be attracted to adults as they are fertile in their peak. But normally, the feeling is not mutual from the side of the adult.




> but I don't buy that theory. Because it's not evolutionarily sound. Getting kids to raise kids is not a great idea for society. Nor is the emotional/power imbalance that you'd create good for the kid.
> No-one wins in this situation


- @Paradox1987 on Skype.


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## Navi (Jul 8, 2012)

Shinji Mimura said:


> <3
> 
> *shrug* I figure only @_Ningsta Kitty_ misses me
> @_chip_ - I'm not totally sure why you keep making such blanketed, stereotypical threads. First you ask whether ALL men "ogle" women, now you're asking if ALL men find teenage girls attractive (well, you aren't directly asking, but it seems to be an indirect intention).
> ...


Pffft, bullshit. You're amazing. <3 

And yes, these threads are easily disputable.


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## Shinji Mimura (Aug 1, 2012)

Navi said:


> Pffft, bullshit. You're amazing. *<3 *
> 
> And yes, these threads are easily disputable.


NO U! :3 :3

I'm just kinda curious lol. I tend to notice trends in people's postings if they make a lot of threads.


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## chip (Oct 12, 2011)

Shinji Mimura said:


> NO U! :3 :3
> 
> I'm just kinda curious lol. I tend to notice trends in people's postings if they make a lot of threads.


That's because I made it obvious. Lulz


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## Paradox1987 (Oct 9, 2010)

My attention has been brought to this thread in full, and OK, my 2 pence:

I don't see the attraction of very young teens. I do not live their lifestyle, I do not want to. Finding something attractive, and sexually attractive are different things. You can say "oh that's a pretty teenager", it's normal. Those of you who are equestrians, or know equestrians will have described a horse as handsome at some point in your life. I doubt severely that translates to "alright people, let's get fucking those fine horses". If you are in your 20s+ and you want to pursue a sexual relationship with someone under the age of 18 (usual age of majority) then people are going to question what you get out of it; and if the consequences are socially desirable. IMO, they don't seem to be.


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## Kwono (Aug 17, 2012)

I mean, if it's only one 15-year-old, then that person may be as normal as anyone else. I normally like people my age, but I've seen some people who are way older and way younger than me who I have found attractive. Beauty is beauty. The only reason I would break up with my significant other would be if she acted on this desire.

(this is a reply to the OP)


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## SuburbanLurker (Sep 26, 2010)

Paradox1987 said:


> If you are in your 20s+ and you want to pursue a sexual relationship with someone under the age of 18 (usual age of majority) then people are going to question what you get out of it; and if the consequences are socially desirable. IMO, they don't seem to be.


The thing I find strange and contradictory about our society's views on this matter is that 18 year olds, to me anyways, often seem just as immature and emotionally undeveloped as 15-16 year olds. Age of majority is merely a necessary line that the law has to draw _somewhere_. But I don't understand why people tend to consider it the absolute point at which a person magically transforms into an adult.

At around age 16, the brain's abstract reasoning abilities are pretty much developed fully, set for life. Cognitive ability isn't going to change significantly from that point on sans a lifestyle change; any increase in apparent intelligence usually comes in the form of knowledge accumulation, not improved cognitive ability. On the other hand, other facets of brain development, such as impulse control and decision making, aren't complete until the mid-20's, which makes sense when you notice how people tend to mellow out and become actual responsible adults around that age. 

So from a scientific view, I just don't understand why people base their moral views on this strange magic age of 18 that appears to have no scientific relevance. A 25 year old dates an 18 year old and no one bats an eyelid, but a 23 year old dates a 16 year old and suddenly he's the scum of the Earth? Makes sense to me. I think they both have issues.


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## Joseph (Jun 20, 2012)

Well I'm twenty, as long as the girl was 18-19, I wouldn't think it would be that weird. I'd be a bit stiffed that she was talking about seeing other people as attractive, depending on the context. I could never be emotionally attracted to a 15 year old though, like thinking about talking to a stereotypical 15 year old girl is already bothering me.


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## Paradox1987 (Oct 9, 2010)

SuburbanLurker said:


> The thing I find strange and contradictory about our society's views on this matter is that 18 year olds, to me anyways, often seem just as immature and emotionally undeveloped as 15-16 year olds. Age of majority is merely a necessary line that the law has to draw _somewhere_. But I don't understand why people tend to consider it the absolute point at which a person magically transforms into an adult.
> 
> At around age 16, the brain's abstract reasoning abilities are pretty much developed fully, set for life. IQ isn't going to change significantly from that point on sans a lifestyle change; any increase in apparent intelligence usually comes in the form of knowledge accumulation, not improved cognitive ability. On the other hand, other facets of brain development, such as impulse control and decision making, aren't complete until the mid-20's, which makes sense when you and notice how people tend to mellow out and become actual responsible adults around that age.
> 
> So from a scientific view, I just don't understand why people base their moral views on this strange magic age of 18 that appears to have no scientific relevance. A 25 year old dates an 18 year old and no one bats an eyelid, but a 23 year old dates a 16 year old and suddenly he's the scum of the Earth? Makes sense to me. I think they both have issues.


I'm 25, no desire to date an 18 year old. But 20 - 18 wouldn't make me question _prima facie_. I'm not basing my morals on 18. But post 18 in age gaps beg fewer questions (in 20+ people) is all. If someone my age was dating an 18 year old, I'd have questions for them too. If they dated someone under 18, I'd just have more questions...

I'm sure they can become responsible adults, but relationships aren't built on cognitive ability, they're built on compatibility. Plus, if responsibility is about "self control", then http://www.hhs.gov/opa/familylife/t...olescent_brain/Development/prefrontal_cortex/. So again, I'll pass on the teenagers.


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## android654 (Jan 19, 2010)

SuburbanLurker said:


> The thing I find strange and contradictory about our society's views on this matter is that 18 year olds, to me anyways, often seem just as immature and emotionally undeveloped as 15-16 year olds. Age of majority is merely a necessary line that the law has to draw _somewhere_. But I don't understand why people tend to consider it the absolute point at which a person magically transforms into an adult.
> 
> At around age 16, the brain's abstract reasoning abilities are pretty much developed fully, set for life. Cognitive ability isn't going to change significantly from that point on sans a lifestyle change; any increase in apparent intelligence usually comes in the form of knowledge accumulation, not improved cognitive ability. On the other hand, other facets of brain development, such as impulse control and decision making, aren't complete until the mid-20's, which makes sense when you notice how people tend to mellow out and become actual responsible adults around that age.
> 
> So from a scientific view, I just don't understand why people base their moral views on this strange magic age of 18 that appears to have no scientific relevance. A 25 year old dates an 18 year old and no one bats an eyelid, but a 23 year old dates a 16 year old and suddenly he's the scum of the Earth? Makes sense to me. I think they both have issues.


So 18 year olds are too immature, but we should be able to fuck 15 year olds because they're just as immature?


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## Shinji Mimura (Aug 1, 2012)

android654 said:


> So 18 year olds are too immature, but we should be able to fuck 15 year olds because they're just as immature?


I don't honestly see why not. 15 year-olds are already fucking people above the age of 18 anyways.


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## chip (Oct 12, 2011)

Shinji Mimura said:


> I don't honestly see why not. 15 year-olds are already fucking people above the age of 18 anyways.


Because they're very hormonal for one and some are reaching levels of puberty earlier due to hormones injected in cows these days, which is not the only reason why a lot of them are teen pregnancies. You act as though these teenagers are mature enough to not keep their legs closed.


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## Shinji Mimura (Aug 1, 2012)

chip said:


> Because they're very hormonal for one and some are reaching levels of puberty earlier due to hormones injected in cows these days, which is not the only reason why a lot of them are teen pregnancies. You act as though these teenagers are mature enough to not keep their legs closed.


You mean mature enough to keep their legs closed?

If you think that 15 year-olds aren't as capable of making their own sexual decisions than their 18 year-old counterparts, you are both delusional and forgetful of the maturity people are capable of, regardless of their age.

Of course, sexuality is about personal choice, not about "maturity."


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## chip (Oct 12, 2011)

Shinji Mimura said:


> You mean mature enough to keep their legs closed?
> 
> If you think that 15 year-olds aren't as capable of making their own sexual decisions than their 18 year-old counterparts, you are both delusional and forgetful of the maturity people are capable of, regardless of their age.
> 
> Of course, sexuality is about personal choice, not about "maturity."


I am well aware of teenagers being capable of having sex, but with mostly an immature mind. Like they're not that developed yet in the brain compared to older people but there are exceptions in the teen world.


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## android654 (Jan 19, 2010)

Shinji Mimura said:


> I don't honestly see why not. 15 year-olds are already fucking people above the age of 18 anyways.


Sure, when I was 13 or 14 I was lusting after my english teacher, math teacher, my doctor, and my optometrist. If any of those woman would've said, "sure kid lets go fuck," I'd be over the fucking moon. However, they're older than I was, they should've exercised better judgement than to take advantage of someone who was still getting comfortable with the idea of doing something they've been doing for a long while. 

Where there girls in high school that definitely developed a hell of a lot faster than the others? Definitely, but 3 minutes of talking and it was obvious they were just as emotionally underdeveloped as the rest of us, Their body may be developed but they were not at the same level as the women I know now in my twenties. They can fuck without forming unnecessary attachments and know when to separate emotions from sex a lot better than high school kids can. It's purely advantageous and it's not fair to the younger party.


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## android654 (Jan 19, 2010)

chip said:


> Because they're very hormonal for one and some are reaching levels of puberty earlier due to hormones injected in cows these days, which is not the only reason why a lot of them are teen pregnancies. You act as though these teenagers are mature enough to not keep their legs closed.


That's not necessarily true. I began noticing girls in a sexual way when I was a child. It's not that they shouldn't be having sex, is that older people are better spent looking around in their own circles than in high schools.


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## SuburbanLurker (Sep 26, 2010)

android654 said:


> So 18 year olds are too immature, but we should be able to fuck 15 year olds because they're just as immature?


I'm not saying what people should or shouldn't be able to do. I'm saying society's views and prejudices are irrational and ridiculous. 

I think each situation and each individual's actions should be judged independently, and that basing morals on a static number where the variables are anything but static is lazy and dumb.


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## Shinji Mimura (Aug 1, 2012)

android654 said:


> It's purely advantageous and it's not fair to the younger party.


I disagree. Maturity isn't something you acquire through age, it's something you acquire through experience, as well as the recognition of it.

I also think we disagree on what constitutes taking "advantage." For me, taking advantage is purposefully inviting a chaste girl to a bar to get her drunk knowing that she has a different side under the influence.

If I consent, you consent, yet later on have regret, how is that taking advantage? There are many experiences I look back on and go, "I shouldn't have consented." But I made that decision in clear conscience.

Now, I understand your point is, "But their conscience isn't clear and, most importantly, it isn't developed." I think you're far underscoring high-schoolers.

There's no denying immaturity defines high school, and that many high schoolers don't even leave high school really knowing who they are or what they want to do.

But, again, this isn't really an issue of maturity, especially since maturity is going to be hard to document since it's difficult to define given that it is, ultimately, an opinion (unless you're talking about literal things, such as brain maturity).

I know that teenagers are more likely to, for example, be more emotional to fall "madly in love" with somebody just because they are "awesome", and that they will do whatever they want for that person in the "name of love." I realize that, in theory, sets them up as easy targets.

But, again, that's just a stereotype, and it not only doesn't apply to all teens, but I'd really argue that, like most stereotypes, it only exists because bad apples have poisoned the image of the bunch.

The Internet may be retarding social skills, but I think it's giving teens more access to understanding. I never had "hormones" that made me curious about sex; I've been beating off since 13, I done been knowin bout dat sex. I think teens have lots of access to venues to help them understand their sexuality and how to go about it more so than ever before.

that, and yeah, the few teens I've been with were all well beyond the maturity necessary. Girls from the ages of 18-22 tend to be worse in a lot of respects, I feel.


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