# The ultimate difference between INTP and INTJ



## Oyashiro-Sama

I have lately found that many people do not know the difference between INTJ INTP, which in my opinion, it is easy to differentiate, we go with the first point.

1° INTJs often have few projects and often finish. while INTP usually have many projects but not finishing them most of the time.

2°intj are always sure what they think 98% and they angry when they realize that not have reason, while INTP uses the words "is likely" or "maybe" when he gives his opinion and they think that be absolutely sure something is thing of inferior minds. resuming:

-intj are sure what they think 98% of the time.

-for intp, nothing is 100% sure.

3°INTJs avoid taking risks most of the time,while INTP love endanger his skin if it's worth, doing everything for the science .

4°intp are masters of black humor,intj are master to feel offended by black humor xd

you are free to extend the list of differentiation, although this in theory is a summary


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## VinnieBob

the INTJ will get out of bed
we shower more then once a week as well


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## Necrofantasia

INTP don't shave years of their lives with Ni-Fi derived stress.
INTJ don't really care for aimlessness.
INTP actually have no problem speaking when they have a problem. 
INTJ are utterly unreadable, send smoke signals and dance around issues yet think they do a bang up job of conveying what they want.


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## Maxis

You guys have had some pretty bad experiences with INTJs.


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## Necrofantasia

Maxis said:


> You guys have had some pretty bad experiences with INTJs.


They are actually my favourite NTs. But I'd be doing them a disservice if I didn't consider their flaws and virtues equally. 

Also, I'll be the first to admit INTP are flawed, I hate myself just enough to know.


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## Wolf

I am an INTJ who has many projects and finishes things somewhere in-between usually and rarely. 

I tend to speak in a lot of conditional language as well, I am not always adamant about where I stand. 

I am also a risk-taker, but I generally like to analyze and know what I'm getting myself into, rather than jumping in headfirst.


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## MetaMD

Nell said:


> INTP don't shave years of their lives with Ni-Fi derived stress.
> INTJ don't really care for aimlessness.
> INTP actually have no problem speaking when they have a problem.
> INTJ are utterly unreadable, send smoke signals and dance around issues yet think they do a bang up job of conveying what they want.


INTJ care aimlessness extremely. I can't tolerate having no goals. I can't tolerate my partner or family wasting time and doing nothing. INTJ can be calm and aloof, but I speak up every time I have things to communicate. I don't let things slide away.


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## Necrofantasia

MetaMD said:


> INTJ care aimlessness extremely. I can't tolerate having no goals. I can't tolerate my partner or family wasting time and doing nothing. INTJ can be calm and aloof, but I speak up every time I have things to communicate. I don't let things slide away.


This is exactly what I mean by not caring for aimlessness.
You don't tolerate it.


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## Catwalk

I explain *here* (&) *here.*

Edit; 

Trolling INTP™ thread(s) are fun; they hate my J™ function.

I will _also_ add - INTJ™ do not hate themselves; just everyone else. 

INTP™ dislike themselves but have that BS + nonsensical (Fe) that INTJ hate, lol. 

I rather jump off a bridge than _utilize _(Fe).

Also, INTJ™ love dark humor - an INTP™ would probably make some kind of technical joke; instead. I will understand it; but not find it exceptionally + even, _humorous_ - per se.


I enjoy exceedingly dark humor w/ dry facial expression(s) + twisted wordplay - INTP™ won't get it; probably just assert I am rather offensive + rude, or something - then sink into a corner + not want to play with me anymore.

;Pouts;

Aw. :grey: ...


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## Necrofantasia

Minx said:


> I explain *here* (&) *here.*
> 
> Edit;
> 
> Trolling INTP™ thread(s) are fun; they hate my J™ function.
> 
> I will _also_ add - INTJ™ do not hate themselves; just everyone else.
> 
> INTP™ dislike themselves but have that BS + nonsensical (Fe) that INTJ hate, lol.
> 
> I rather jump off a bridge than _utilize _(Fe).
> 
> Also, INTJ™ love dark humor - an INTP™ would probably make some kind of technical joke; instead. I will understand it; but not find it exceptionally + even, _humorous_ - per se.
> 
> 
> I enjoy exceedingly dark humor w/ dry facial expression(s) + twisted wordplay - INTP™ won't get it; probably just assert I am rather offensive + rude, or something - then sink into a corner + not want to play with me anymore.
> 
> ;Pouts;
> 
> Aw. :grey: ...


Ah yes, hating everyone. Busy work, thankless work. Good thing you're around to do it for the rest of us (or to the rest of us).
We all grapple with different beasts, I wouldn't trade mine for yours.


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## Another Lost Cause

Nell said:


> This is exactly what I mean by not caring for aimlessness.
> You don't tolerate it.


I find this interesting because I actually feel like I need to "float" around in an aimless fashion, that there is something constraining and tiresome about being so focused on some goal. I feel like having a goal-seeking orientation is a blinder and a straight-jacket in a lot of ways.


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## Asmodaeus

INTJs are ALWAYS on time no matter what, whereas INTP sometimes tend to show up rather late.


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## Pretender

Oyashiro-Sama said:


> intp are masters of black humor,intj are master to feel offended by black humor xd


What kind of shitty thin-skinned intjs do you hang around?


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## ShadowsRunner

Superior logic!


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## Catwalk

Nell said:


> Ah yes, hating everyone. Busy work, thankless work. Good thing you're around to do it for the rest of us (or to the rest of us).
> We all grapple with different beasts, I wouldn't trade mine for yours.


*My idea of fun:* Scheduling clean-up day (via) the INTP thread until they kick me out. :biggrin:


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## Grandmaster Yoda

INTJs look for trends, INTPs explore possibilities.


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## CTRLvector

I don't hate myself, and I certainly shower daily, I even manage to work out 5 days a week - imagine that. I have to shove myself every step of the way, mind you.

You can step outside your comfort zone as an INTP, signing a contract to enlist in the Army is a good way to do it, yes it is.

I got the gift of dyslexia, dysgraphia, and I'm a psychopath too. An oxymoron when you throw in the Fe function, but whatever. Certainly explains why I love me some drugs of the narcotic variety. 

Yeah, I don't like life though, certainly not. It's painful,.every god damn step of the way, It's an agonizing bitch of a life, and honestly ill be glad when it's over.


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## mninp

This is going to sting. Having dated an INTJ and have three INTP friends I have a lot of experience with both.


INTPs are more logical...I hate to say it, but it's true. INTJs let their combination of Fi and Ni get the best of them. They become extremely emotional, though they'll never admit it.

INTJs are much easier to get them to open up, because once you break their wall, they essentially become an F type. INTJs put a lot of stock into their emotional defenses and who they allow in...INTPs just don't really give a shit. Not giving a shit is tougher to get through.

INTJs are much more proactive than INTPs. INTPs don't really get anything done, and even when they do, they do so reluctantly or because they are forced to. INTJs get things done.

INTJs are much more responsible and are more "alpha" than INTPs. An INTP dating an INTJ...the INTJ is going to be wearing the pants in that relationship.

INTPs are easier to get along with and go with the flow a lot more. INTJs are very difficult unless you can break through their wall of isolation, which once they notice you exist is not very hard. INTPs are pretty chill from the get go.

INTJs make better parents, I think. Though I think they need to be paired with an F type to make it work best. I think an INTP parent, while not that great by itself, can do a lot better with another T type as their partner.


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## Necrofantasia

Another Lost Cause said:


> I find this interesting because I actually feel like I need to "float" around in an aimless fashion, that there is something constraining and tiresome about being so focused on some goal. I feel like having a goal-seeking orientation is a blinder and a straight-jacket in a lot of ways.


INTJ like their blinders, thanks to them they finish what they start, which makes them the cool ones.



Icy Heart said:


> INTJs are ALWAYS on time no matter what, whereas INTP sometimes tend to show up rather late.


Guilty.



Minx said:


> *My idea of fun:* Scheduling clean-up day (via) the INTP thread until they kick me out. :biggrin:


Not sure what you mean by clean-up day but I'll have the popcorn ready. Maybe puppy videos for diffusion if you turn on me. 



CTRLvector said:


> Yeah, I don't like life though, certainly not. It's painful,.every god damn step of the way, It's an agonizing bitch of a life, and honestly ill be glad when it's over.


Not sure a corpse can be glad, but I think this way too. There's some good but it's overall not that great.


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## ScorQuarTarius

I think you guys base stuff off of stereotypes way too much. 

INTJs have introverted intuition as their dominant function while INTPs have introverted thinking. Those are two very different functions. In fact, the INTP and the INTJ have VEEEERRYY different functions. As in, none in similar. 

INTJs will usually only focus on one or two ideas or interests and obsess over those things due to our Ni. We WILL become experts in those things. 
INTP has Ne as their auxiliary. That allows them to focus on many different ideas all at once. They have Ti which deals with accuracy, so they will seek knowledge for the sake of knowledge while an INTJ will have a purpose. 

My INTP friend and I are really different. Plus, they're usually more goofy. I'm more serious and I enjoy more intense matters. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## SouDesuNyan

You are all wrong. The biggest difference between INTP and INTJ is our spirit animal. INTP's spirit animal is the owl and INTJ's spirit animal is the grumpy cat. It's very satisfying the way an INTJ says "NO". Sometimes, I ask them stupid questions just to hear them say it. "NO". it's like chicken soup to the ears.

INTJs are more predictable, even in boardgames. They have a grand strategy from the get go. INTPs on the other hand enjoy breaking INTJs' strategy by playing tactically. INTPs are opportunists. If the INTPs win, the INTJs would modify their grand strategy incrementally, perfecting it to work in all situations. INTPs don't care as much whether they win or lose. They might even lose on purpose for funsies.


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## Strelok

SouDesuNyan said:


> You are all wrong. The biggest difference between INTP and INTJ is our spirit animal. INTP's spirit animal is the owl and INTJ's spirit animal is the grumpy cat. It's very satisfying the way an INTJ says "NO". Sometimes, I ask them stupid questions just to hear them say it. "NO". it's like chicken soup to the ears.
> 
> INTJs are more predictable, even in boardgames. They have a grand strategy from the get go. INTPs on the other hand enjoy breaking INTJs' strategy by playing tactically. INTPs are opportunists. If the INTPs win, the INTJs would modify their grand strategy incrementally, perfecting it to work in all situations. INTPs don't care as much whether they win or lose. They might even lose on purpose for funsies.


Sounds more like ENTP vs INTJ.


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## SouDesuNyan

Strelok said:


> Sounds more like ENTP vs INTJ.


You might be right. Lately, I've been thinking that perhaps the results of the MBTI tests I took are incorrect, and that I'm actually a socially introverted ENTP. It feels like my cognitive function ordering should be Ti-Ne-Fe-Si, but that's not possible based on MBTI's definitions.


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## Strelok

SouDesuNyan said:


> You might be right. Lately, I've been thinking that perhaps the results of the MBTI tests I took are incorrect, and that I'm actually a socially introverted ENTP. It feels like my cognitive function ordering should be Ti-Ne-Fe-Si, but that's not possible based on MBTI's definitions.


I honestly can't comprehend why someone who thinks about this MBTI stuff for longer than a week would hold their "test results" in high regard, instead of arriving at their own conclusion after studying all the types and cognitive functions (etc.).


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## SouDesuNyan

Strelok said:


> I honestly can't comprehend why someone who thinks about this MBTI stuff for longer than a week would hold their "test results" in high regard, instead of arriving at their own conclusion after studying all the types and cognitive functions (etc.).


I agree. People are so stupid.


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## Laze

It's pretty simple: one letter. Ooo, kill 'em.


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## Punniez

A Lone Wolf said:


> I am an INTJ who has many projects and finishes things somewhere in-between usually and rarely.
> 
> I tend to speak in a lot of conditional language as well, I am not always adamant about where I stand.
> 
> I am also a risk-taker, but I generally like to analyze and know what I'm getting myself into, rather than jumping in headfirst.


Yeah, was just going to say that the OP's list didn't seem to ring quite true.

EDIT: I know people are going to shoot me down on this, but I like to think of the difference between INTP and INTJ as similar to the difference between Ravenclaw and Slytherin.
Ravenclaws & INTPs are more likely to learn for the sake of learning. If they are curious about something, they look it up. A wide but unfocused database. Someone who'd be good for trivia.
Slytherins & INTJs also love learning, but their learning is more focused in order to complete a goal. A means to an end.


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## Morgoth

Oyashiro-Sama said:


> I have lately found that many people do not know the difference between INTJ INTP, which in my opinion, it is easy to differentiate, we go with the first point.
> 
> 1° INTJs often have few projects and often finish. while INTP usually have many projects but not finishing them most of the time.
> 
> *2°intj are always sure what they think 98% and they angry when they realize that not have reason, while INTP uses the words "is likely" or "maybe" when he gives his opinion and they think that be absolutely sure something is thing of inferior minds. resuming:
> 
> -intj are sure what they think 98% of the time.
> 
> -for intp, nothing is 100% sure.*
> 
> 3°INTJs avoid taking risks most of the time,while INTP love endanger his skin if it's worth, doing everything for the science .
> 
> *4°intp are masters of black humor,intj are master to feel offended by black humor xd*
> 
> you are free to extend the list of differentiation, although this in theory is a summary


I agree with the rest of the assessment and differences. But on a personal level, the parts in bold describe the opposite of me in terms of being INTJ. I make a huge effort to tell people that nothing is 100% certain, based on numbers, probability, and infinite possibilities. I really go out of my way to stress that at times, often to the confusion of others. 

Also, black comedy is something I do well, and I enjoy it in general, not sure what other INTJs have to say about the matter.
If anything, I'd wager we do black comedy better and totally unironically. I haven't yet an INTP that can pull that off with quite the same disregard and style.

I also feel like INTP have more fun than us, they can take things less seriously. Not be so bogged down by details and making sense of things that they could care little about. When me and my INTP friend discuss something I feel the need to get to the bottom of it, before I move on. The same thing I observed when he and I were doing the same Engineering course. He'd learn quite easily and move on, I'd refuse to learn a damn thing until I focussed all my attention and will to understanding what it builds on and aims to achieve. He'd take a lot in from a simple lecture, I'd go home and become an expert about everything but the lecture material and then quickly brush over the lecture putting those missing pieces of the puzzle in place.

Also, with that same friend, I've observed that in group situations and group work, while he's like Gandhi, contributes, easy going and is along for the ride, I often find myself being like Joseph Stalin, usually out of I what I see is necessity, and usually with what I perceive as 'sufficient' group support.


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## Strelok

Punniez said:


> Yeah, was just going to say that the OP's list didn't seem to ring quite true.
> 
> EDIT: I know people are going to shoot me down on this, but I like to think of the difference between INTP and INTJ as similar to the difference between Ravenclaw and Slytherin.
> Ravenclaws & INTPs are more likely to learn for the sake of learning. If they are curious about something, they look it up. A wide but unfocused database. Someone who'd be good for trivia.
> Slytherins & INTJs also love learning, but their learning is more focused in order to complete a goal. A means to an end.


That is probably the most true and impartial statement you could make to compare the two types.


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## MetaMD

SouDesuNyan said:


> You are all wrong. The biggest difference between INTP and INTJ is our spirit animal. INTP's spirit animal is the owl and INTJ's spirit animal is the grumpy cat. It's very satisfying the way an INTJ says "NO". Sometimes, I ask them stupid questions just to hear them say it. "NO". it's like chicken soup to the ears.
> 
> INTJs are more predictable, even in boardgames. They have a grand strategy from the get go. INTPs on the other hand enjoy breaking INTJs' strategy by playing tactically. INTPs are opportunists. If the INTPs win, the INTJs would modify their grand strategy incrementally, perfecting it to work in all situations. INTPs don't care as much whether they win or lose. They might even lose on purpose for funsies.


LOL This is the reason you posted several unrelated posts in different threads all over the place?

Not true. Some INTJs consider board games a waste of time so they won't even participate. Some INTJs will lose the games because they are obligated to play due to unforseen social circumstance. This way they can leave soon.


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## MetaMD

SouDesuNyan said:


> You might be right. Lately, I've been thinking that perhaps the results of the MBTI tests I took are incorrect, and that I'm actually a socially introverted ENTP. It feels like my cognitive function ordering should be Ti-Ne-Fe-Si, but that's not possible based on MBTI's definitions.


Easy. One question for you: Do you feel more energetic and recharged when you are with friends or when you are alone?


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## SouDesuNyan

MetaMD said:


> Easy. One question for you: Do you feel more energetic and recharged when you are with friends or when you are alone?


I don't think MBTI's definitions of introversion and extraversion are equivalent to the dictionary's definitions. It's closer to subjectivity and objectivity respectively. So, Ti is subjective thinking while Te is objective thinking. Subjective means things that CANNOT be shared, while objective means things that CAN be shared. For example, the fact that 1 + 1 = 2 is Te; being convinced that 1 + 1 = 2, not because the math teacher said so, is Ti. Being INTJ doesn't mean that you do not use Ti. It just means that you use Te more than Ti.

Thus, it's not unlikely that an MBTI extravert is actually a social introvert, and vice versa. Also, ENTPs are said to be, on average, the least socially extraverted of MBTI extraverts. I'm definitely a social introvert, but my Ne is pure insanity. I try to keep it under control or else everyone would want to murder me.


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## MetaMD

SouDesuNyan said:


> I don't think MBTI's definitions of introversion and extraversion are equivalent to the dictionary's definitions. It's closer to subjectivity and objectivity respectively. So, Ti is subjective thinking while Te is objective thinking. Subjective means things that CANNOT be shared, while objective means things that CAN be shared. For example, the fact that 1 + 1 = 2 is Te; being convinced that 1 + 1 = 2, not because the math teacher said so, is Ti. Being INTJ doesn't mean that you do not use Ti. It just means that you use Te more than Ti.
> 
> Thus, it's not unlikely that an MBTI extravert is actually a social introvert, and vice versa. Also, ENTPs are said to be, on average, the least socially extraverted of MBTI extraverts. I'm definitely a social introvert, but my Ne is pure insanity. I try to keep it under control or else everyone would want to murder me.


Great analysis about Ti and Te! MBTI takes common terms to describe its own thing so there are discrepancies not aligned to how people would normally use these terms. However, it doesn't matter if you want to have descriptions under MBTI categorization. In this case, you can disregard what common terms mean. You only have to go with MBTI rules. You probably confused extrovert and introvert here. These are energy expenditure system in MBTI, not how you interact with people. For example, being quiet and shy, or being loud and frivolous. I agree with your analysis about ENTP.

Now tell me do you feel more energetic with people or alone? Both extroverts and introverts can feel both ways, but one way more than the other.


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## SouDesuNyan

MetaMD said:


> Now tell me do you feel more energetic with people or alone? Both extroverts and introverts can feel both ways, but one way more than the other.


Since I rarely interact with people (outside of work), I usually gain some energy when hanging out with friends. However, there are times when I have to interact with people for hours, and in those times, I lose energy, though I'd gain it back after some alone time. So, the answer is, it depends. Outside of work, I spend maybe 10% of my waking hours interacting with people, so most people would classify me as an introvert. That's my preference-- and by preference, I mean that's what my mind and body want, so I go with the flow.


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## MetaMD

SouDesuNyan said:


> Since I rarely interact with people (outside of work), I usually gain some energy when hanging out with friends. However, there are times when I have to interact with people for hours, and in those times, I lose energy, though I'd gain it back after some alone time. So, the answer is, it depends. Outside of work, I spend maybe 10% of my waking hours interacting with people, so most people would classify me as an introvert. That's my preference-- and by preference, I mean that's what my mind and body want, so I go with the flow.


Congrats! You are INTP. "There are times when I have to interact with people for hours, and in those times, I lose energy, though I'd gain it back after some alone time." This is the very typical presentation of introverts. 

I also don't get to interact with many people during the week so I do get excited when I talk to people occasionally during the week, but if I have to hang out with people for 3-4 hours, my energy drains quickly, especially if there are loud extroverts in the group. I have to run back home to rest. lol


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## Felix5

I've never really thought about the difference between the two, personally I think it's the difference between night and day. I don't understand how people could confuse the two and yet it happens all the time. I tend to notice that INTPs seem more laid back. INTJs usually appear more lost in their own thoughts. 

The most important is that INTJs are perceivers and INTPs are judgers, which is contrary to what most people would think. INTJs have a fairly strong inferior function, taking in information from their Se and storing it for later use. When we delve into our Ni, we may come back to this later. Some people seem to think our insights come from some mysterious place, but they don't.

INTPs tend to be more detailed when they learn about something and will sit and stew about something.

Actually INTJs and INTPs will both do this, but in very different ways. I can see why people might confuse the two when it comes to this, but in terms of temperament we're totally different.


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## WarLordISTJ

MetaMD said:


> SouDesuNyan said:
> 
> 
> 
> You might be right. Lately, I've been thinking that perhaps the results of the MBTI tests I took are incorrect, and that I'm actually a socially introverted ENTP. It feels like my cognitive function ordering should be Ti-Ne-Fe-Si, but that's not possible based on MBTI's definitions.
> 
> 
> 
> Easy. One question for you: Do you feel more energetic and recharged when you are with friends or when you are alone?
Click to expand...

Will you guys convert me into an intj? It's only a one letter difference.


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## Grandmaster Yoda

Objective reality is more of an IxxJ idea.


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## Strelok

Felix5 said:


> I've never really thought about the difference between the two, personally I think it's the difference between night and day. I don't understand how people could confuse the two and yet it happens all the time.
> 
> [...] I can see why people might confuse the two when it comes to this, but in terms of temperament we're totally different.


I couldn't agree more.



Felix5 said:


> The most important is that INTJs are perceivers and INTPs are judgers, which is contrary to what most people would think.


With respect to the nature of our primary cognitive functions, yes. But not with respect to our _main extroverted function_.



Felix5 said:


> INTJs have a fairly strong inferior function


Seems like the development and usage of one's inferior function would vary by each individual.


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## Felix5

> Seems like the development and usage of one's inferior function would vary by each individual.


True, but generally our inferior function is actually stronger than our tertiary which is Fi. Sometimes we bypass it altogether, ironically this isn't necessarily a healthy thing to do for INTJs. I guess that's probably the case with most types, but INTJs tend to use it unknowingly.


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## Brunissen

INTJs can be bossy, but INTPs? I can't imagine that. We just don't care enough.


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## shallnotbenamed

INTJs want to fill their day with productive activities.
INTPs want to fill their day with things that interest or amuse them.

The INTJ look: 
* *














The INTP look: 
* *















INTJs debate like they're putting their plan into motion.
INTPs debate like they're forming their plan.

You will mostly see the INTJ sitting upright.
You will at least sometime see the INTP sitting in the exact The Thinker position. Pretty sure that statue was based off an INTP.

Picture comparison:


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## MetaMD

Brunissen said:


> INTJs can be bossy, but INTPs? I can't imagine that. We just don't care enough.


INTJ don't want to be bossy. We like to stay low-key. I only speak when people consult me or things will damage my performance.


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## MetaMD

Deadmanrising said:


> Picture comparison:


Love this picture! INTJ looks sharp, and INTP is trying to focus by opening his eyes. LOL


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## Peter

Oyashiro-Sama said:


> I have lately found that many people do not know the difference between INTJ INTP, which in my opinion, it is easy to differentiate, we go with the first point.
> 
> 1° INTJs often have few projects and often finish. while INTP usually have many projects but not finishing them most of the time.
> 
> 2°intj are always sure what they think 98% and they angry when they realize that not have reason, while INTP uses the words "is likely" or "maybe" when he gives his opinion and they think that be absolutely sure something is thing of inferior minds. resuming:
> 
> -intj are sure what they think 98% of the time.
> 
> -for intp, nothing is 100% sure.
> 
> *3°INTJs avoid taking risks most of the time*,while INTP love endanger his skin if it's worth, doing everything for the science .
> 
> 4°intp are masters of black humor,intj are master to feel offended by black humor xd
> 
> you are free to extend the list of differentiation, although this in theory is a summary


The concept of risk has a whole diffeent meaning to INTJ's.

Besides that,.... 98% is nonsense. Just write 100%.

And INTP's risk takers???

INTP's don't do it for the science, they do it because they want to fully understand something.


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## MetaMD

WarLordISTJ said:


> Will you guys convert me into an intj? It's only a one letter difference.


Sorry I can't help you converting, but I can help to identify if you were typed wrong. 

Q. Do you pay attention to the street view, such as some house changed paint colors on your way driving home or do you think about your agenda after you get home?

Q. Are you a here and now person or do you like to plan the future?


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## Brunissen

MetaMD said:


> INTJ don't want to be bossy. We like to stay low-key. I only speak when people consult me or things will damage my performance.


I didn't say that INTJs want to be bossy. They just CAN act bossy if they need it. My perception of this type is that INTJs have very clear goals and plans to achieve what they want. If something is on their way, they will consider every available tool to overcome it, including being bossy.

On the other hand, I think INTPs have more difficulties focussing on their goals. If something is on their way, they can consider this thing as equallly interesting as their primary goal. And before they realize it, what was an obstacle becomes an object of reflexion (and the INTP is lost^^). That's why I don't think an INTP can really be bossy: the destination is less important than the journey.


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## Paradox07

Brunissen said:


> I didn't say that INTJs want to be bossy. They just CAN act bossy if they need it. My perception of this type is that INTJs have very clear goals and plans to achieve what they want. If something is on their way, they will consider every available tool to overcome it, including being bossy.
> 
> On the other hand, I think INTPs have more difficulties focussing on their goals. If something is on their way, they can consider this thing as equallly interesting as their primary goal. And before they realize it, what was an obstacle becomes an object of reflexion (and the INTP is lost^^). That's why I don't think an INTP can really be bossy: the destination is less important than the journey.


I agree with @MetaMD. There are not many times where I'm bossy. Out of the many things I've been called (direct, serious, mean, honest, etc), bossy has not been one of them. I leave that for the Te/Fe doms who actually like organizing and maintaining people.


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## Brunissen

Paradox07 said:


> I agree with @MetaMD. There are not many times where I'm bossy. Out of the many things I've been called (direct, serious, mean, honest, etc), bossy has not been one of them. I leave that for the Te/Fe doms who actually like organizing and maintaining people.


Okay, maybe bossy is not the exact word. Do you agree more with "peremptory", "determined", or "firm"?


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## MetaMD

Brunissen said:


> I didn't say that INTJs want to be bossy. They just CAN act bossy if they need it. My perception of this type is that INTJs have very clear goals and plans to achieve what they want. If something is on their way, they will consider every available tool to overcome it, including being bossy.


Exactly. My attitude is you either ride with me or you get out of my way, but bossy is not the right word to use here. INTJs can be direct, not bossy. I have no desire to supervise other people's business.


----------



## Brunissen

MetaMD said:


> Exactly. My attitude is you either ride with me or you get out of my way, but bossy is not the right word to use here. INTJs can be direct, not bossy. I have no desire to supervise other people's business.


Ok, thanks for your precision.


----------



## Paradox07

Brunissen said:


> Okay, maybe bossy is not the exact word. Do you agree more with "peremptory", "determined", or "firm"?


MetaMD summed it up it nicely with her last reply to you.


----------



## Oyashiro-Sama

Peter said:


> Besides that,.... 98% is nonsense. Just write 100%.



INTJs are very openminded to be sure something 100%,a type who really sure of something 100% would be a xstj.


----------



## Peter

Oyashiro-Sama said:


> INTJs are very openminded to be sure something 100%,a type who really sure of something 100% would be a xstj.


It would be nice if it would be that easy, wouldn't it? :smile:

But to an INTJ the difference between 98% and 100% is pretty much irrelevant. That is, in the context that you wrote it down.

You´re not totally wrong about the differences you wrote down between INTJ's and INTP's, but it's simplified.

Most discussions I have in here that go bad are with INTP's. It's because they either refuse to consider a different view (sometimes) or they just keep delving deeper until it isn't even about the original subject anymore (most of the time). One difference you can add to your list that it often (not always) is impossible for an INTJ and an INTP to have a decent discussion.

It would have been nice if you would have gone to the cognitive functions:

INTJ: Ni - Te
INTP: Ti - Ne

That explains the difference between the 2 types in ways that you can't put into words. But it requires understanding cognitive functions and their position.


----------



## WarLordISTJ

Thanks for the response, for the first question I'll say that I notice the little details when it comes to observing a house, and for the second question I do look into the future alot. I have take the myer briggs personality tests many times and I have consistently come out as an istj, but I was barely a dominant sensor. If I had changed a few characteristics of my personality I would come out as an intj or intp.


----------



## Paradox07

Peter said:


> Most discussions I have in here that go bad are with INTP's. It's because they either refuse to consider a different view (sometimes) or they just keep delving deeper until it isn't even about the original subject anymore (most of the time). One difference you can add to your list that it often (not always) is impossible for an INTJ and an INTP to have a decent discussion.


I’m glad that somebody else besides myself has finally mentioned this difference between INTJs and INTPs. INTPs have this illusion of being opened minded because of auxiliary Ne, but good luck trying to get an INTP to step outside of a system they have defined as a _truth_, even if that so-called truth is really wrong. Their extroverted intuition is used to support the framework of Ti, not to consider other viewpoints outside of that framework. In other words, there is a big difference between leading with a judging and perceiving function.


----------



## WarLordISTJ

Let's start another argument since I do not know how to add to the above posts. Would would win in an arguement between an istj, estj, intj, entj, intp and entp?


----------



## MuChApArAdOx

The ultimate difference is everything, just like INFP and INFJ.

INTP are much more like ENTP than INTJ. ENTJ are very much like INTJ. 

They don't share the same behaviour patterns either, INTJs in my experience are chill and relaxed, where INTP like their cousin ENTP are all over the map. INTP are not as rational as INTJs. INTJs don't care about the same things as INTPs. INTJs have a purpose for what they learn or what Information they care to take in , INTPs take in Information for the sake of it often, or to argue with other people like their annoying cousins, ENTP. They are like day and night, mind , body and spirit. INTPs are trollish like ENTPS, INTJs are taking seriously like ENTJs. INTJs don't take personal offense easily, INTPs do and will try and shut you down if they don't agree with you, INTJs can't be bothered with such petty things.

I have both INTJ/INTP friends, I take my INTJ much more seriously than the INTP. INTPs are INTJs wanna bees lol where at the end of the day they are exactly like ENTPs on a lower level of energy.


----------



## WarLordISTJ

MuChApArAdOx said:


> The ultimate difference is everything, just like INFP and INFJ.
> 
> INTP are much more like ENTP than INTJ. ENTJ are very much like INTJ.
> 
> They don't share the same behaviour patterns either, INTJs in my experience are chill and relaxed, where INTP like their cousin ENTP are all over the map. INTP are not as rational as INTJs. INTJs don't care about the same things as INTPs. INTJs have a purpose for what they learn or what Information they care to take in , INTPs take in Information for the sake of it often, or to argue with other people like their annoying cousins, ENTP. They are like day and night, mind , body and spirit. INTPs are trollish like ENTPS, INTJs are taking seriously like ENTJs. INTJs don't take personal offense easily, INTPs do and will try and shut you down if they don't agree with you, INTJs can't be bothered with such petty things.
> 
> I have both INTJ/INTP friends, I take my INTJ much more seriously than the INTP. INTPs are INTJs wanna bees lol where at the end of the day they are exactly like ENTPs on a lower level of energy.


Haha it was an interesting, insightful post, but I believe you still didn't answer my question. I also disagree that intj's are chill. I believe intp's are more chill then intj's because intj's tend to be more aggressive, because of the stress they might accumulate in trying to accomplish their goals.


----------



## goodthankyou

Loving this!



Deadmanrising said:


> Picture comparison:


----
As for me, I finally understood the difference between INTP and INTJ the day I saw these archetypes on Pacific Rim.

INTP










INTJ


----------



## MuChApArAdOx

WarLordISTJ said:


> Haha it was an interesting, insightful post, but I believe you still didn't answer my question. I also disagree that intj's are chill. I believe intp's are more chill then intj's because intj's tend to be more aggressive, because of the stress they might accumulate in trying to accomplish their goals.


Saying an INTP is chill is like saying an ENTP is chill. They are both very neurotic types compared to the chilled INTJ. ENTJ are not as chilled but they are no where near neurotic like TPs. TJs are more aggressive because they have to deal with stupid people all the time, and in order to say what they need to say then be left alone, they need to be aggressive to get people to back the fuck away and off their back, ha ~~love them so much. I would seek the advice of an XNTJ any day of the week before I would an INTP.....KKKKK...well maybe not in the relationship department or anything related to the relationship department, but I would't seek out INTP for that department either, nor would I seek out a J type in general to be honest. I would seek out FPs, they are the masters at relationships and everything related on a deep level.


----------



## WarLordISTJ

I don't know if ntp's are neurotic or not, but if they are, then compared to the ntp's, then I guess ntj's are more chill. I agree with tj's being aggressive beca use they have to deal with stupid people on a daily basis. I am an istj, and I consider myself to be pretty ambitious and so I sacrafice a lot to try and accomplish my goals and so when somebody comes along who may not be as ambitious as me, and tries to share their stup*d mentality with me, it does tend to aggrevate me, but I do not believe they are doin it on purpose. But what also aggravates me is the stress that I accumulate, so I figured that other tj's would become aggressive as well, because of the stress they have accumulated.


----------



## Subtle Murder

Paradox07 said:


> I’m glad that somebody else besides myself has finally mentioned this difference between INTJs and INTPs. INTPs have this illusion of being opened minded because of auxiliary Ne, but *good luck trying to get an INTP to step outside of a system they have defined as a truth, even if that so-called truth is really wrong. Their extroverted intuition is used to support the framework of Ti, not to consider other viewpoints outside of that framework.* In other words, there is a big difference between leading with a judging and perceiving function.


Thank you for explaining this. I have always had issue with trying to understand the way my mother thinks. She makes a lot of blanket statements based off her own personal experience, and when you try to explain to her that not all situations will necessarily manifest in that exact way, she will insist that they do because of her own convictions. I've had many arguments with her using lines like: "But not ALL of them do!" and "But not EVERYONE is like that!". At least now I understand where she is coming from when she argues her side of things. I've always thought she was incredibly stubborn and close-minded, but I guess she is just arguing what she knows to be true within herself.


----------



## Oyashiro-Sama

MuChApArAdOx said:


> Saying an INTP is chill is like saying an ENTP is chill. They are both very neurotic types compared to the chilled INTJ. ENTJ are not as chilled but they are no where near neurotic like TPs. TJs are more aggressive because they have to deal with stupid people all the time, and in order to say what they need to say then be left alone, they need to be aggressive to get people to back the fuck away and off their back, ha ~~love them so much. I would seek the advice of an XNTJ any day of the week before I would an INTP.....KKKKK...well maybe not in the relationship department or anything related to the relationship department, but I would't seek out INTP for that department either, nor would I seek out a J type in general to be honest. I would seek out FPs, they are the masters at relationships and everything related on a deep level.


I do not understand why you idolaters and throw flowers to the XNTJs.But not matter...

1ºwhat has to do the neuroticism,the honesty or aggressiveness with the mbti? This is equivalent to say that the INTP are fatter than intj or something like that.

2ºif you are cold or not, that does not change in the mbti, of course types "thinking" are colder than the "feeler" but it depends on what else you are.

3ºI see the rest of your answers are you kissing the feet of the xntj ,so do I can not answer you, sorry


----------



## Paradox07

Subtle Murder said:


> Thank you for explaining this. I have always had issue with trying to understand the way my mother thinks. She makes a lot of blanket statements based off her own personal experience, and when you try to explain to her that not all situations will necessarily manifest in that exact way, she will insist that they do because of her own convictions. I've had many arguments with her using lines like: "But not ALL of them do!" and "But not EVERYONE is like that!". At least now I understand where she is coming from when she argues her side of things. I've always thought she was incredibly stubborn and close-minded, but I guess she is just arguing what she knows to be true within herself.


No problem. I originally came to this discovery when comparing the differences in cognition between an ENFP and INFP oddly enough. I have always found other perceiving dominants (even in the sensory realm) to be more exploratory through that of their perception before coming to an actual judgement. INFPs for example have a tendency of not wanting to extend their Ne unless it meets the values of their dominant Fi, which is very different than what you'll find in an ENFP personality type. I have found my communication to be easier to navigate with ExNPs than with INxPs, primarily because they're always coming from a judgement rather than a perception.

I'm not actually a fan of Socionics, but I do find the switch in the J and P with the introverts to make more sense.


----------



## Strelok

Paradox07 said:


> Peter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most discussions I have in here that go bad are with INTP's. It's because they either refuse to consider a different view (sometimes) or they just keep delving deeper until it isn't even about the original subject anymore (most of the time).
> 
> 
> 
> I’m glad that somebody else besides myself has finally mentioned *this difference between INTJs and INTPs*.
Click to expand...

Ah, the ol' straight-up "INTPs are inferior to INTJs" routine.



MuChApArAdOx said:


> INTPs are INTJs wanna bees lol


It's not often I read something this stupid on PerC, but here it is.



Oyashiro-Sama said:


> I do not understand why you idolaters and throw flowers to the XNTJs.But not matter...
> 
> 1ºwhat has to do the neuroticism,the honesty or aggressiveness with the mbti? This is equivalent to say that the INTP are fatter than intj or something like that.
> 
> 2ºif you are cold or not, that does not change in the mbti, of course types "thinking" are colder than the "feeler" but it depends on what else you are.
> 
> 3ºI see the rest of your answers are you kissing the feet of the xntj ,so do I can not answer you, sorry


Oh, thank god. The first intelligent post in the past few pages. I'm sure the Fi/Te monkeys will pan you for it.

Anyway, the only thing to learn from this thread is that:


 Te/Fi users (xxTJs and their little xxFP lap-dogs) think that the Te/Fi users are "chill", "more rational", and those filthy NTPs are neurotic and aggressive all the time!
 Ti/Fe users find the Ti/Fe users more "chill", "rational", etc. and that the NTJs are more neurotic and aggressive
Once you've figured that out (which you don't really need to see this thread to understand), there's not much left to discuss.


----------



## Peter

Strelok said:


> Ah, the ol' straight-up "INTPs are inferior to INTJs" routine.
> 
> 
> It's not often I read something this stupid on PerC, but here it is.
> 
> 
> Oh, thank god. The first intelligent post in the past few pages. I'm sure the Fi/Te monkeys will pan you for it.
> 
> Anyway, the only thing to learn from this thread is that:
> 
> 
> Te/Fi users (xxTJs and their little xxFP lap-dogs) think that the Te/Fi users are "chill", "more rational", and those filthy NTPs are neurotic and aggressive all the time!
> Ti/Fe users find the Ti/Fe users more "chill", "rational", etc. and that the NTJs are more neurotic and aggressive
> Once you've figured that out (which you don't really need to see this thread to understand), there's not much left to discuss.


I don't think INTP's are inferior or that INTJ's are superior. What I think is that it's nearly impossible for an INTJ's and INTP's to have decent discussions with eachother. Unless of course they completely agree with eachother, but then it wouldn't really be a discussion. So that doesn't count.

There are many things INTP's are much better at than INTJ's and visa versa. Comparing types in a one type is better than the other is just ridiculous. There is one thing INTP's and INTJ's both suck at and that is having a discussion with eachother.


----------



## Strelok

Peter said:


> I don't think INTP's are inferior or that INTJ's are superior. What I think is that it's nearly impossible for an INTJ's and INTP's to have decent discussions with eachother.


I agree with you about that. But it wasn't your comment that I saying that about (I thought the way you worded your thoughts in your post was reasonable). It was the guy who replied to you (Paradox07) who used the phrase "this difference between INTJs and INTPs", and goes on as though "INTPs are narrow minded and INTJs are open minded" is some kind of fact.


----------



## Paradox07

Strelok said:


> I agree with you about that. But it wasn't your comment that I saying that about (I thought the way you worded your thoughts in your post was reasonable). It was the guy who replied to you (Paradox07) who used the phrase "this difference between INTJs and INTPs", and goes on as though "INTPs are narrow minded and INTJs are open minded" is some kind of fact.


If you read my elaboration on why I think this is, you'll noticed it's not just targeted towards INTPs and INTJs. My perspective wasn't even about superiority, but rather looking at the difference between the orientation of the dominant function within perception and judgement. If anything you proved my point.


----------



## Strelok

Paradox07 said:


> If you read my elaboration on why I think this is, you'll noticed it's not just targeted towards INTPs and INTJs. My perspective wasn't even about superiority, but rather looking at the difference between the orientation of the dominant function within perception and judgement. If anything you proved my point.


What a lying bag of shit. The only part of your post that wasn't strictly about INTPs and INTJs was the very last sentence.


----------



## Paradox07

Strelok said:


> What a lying bag of shit. The only part of your post that wasn't strictly about INTPs and INTJs was the very last sentence.


Maybe you didn't read my following reply.



> No problem. I originally came to this discovery when comparing the differences in cognition between an ENFP and INFP oddly enough. I have always found other perceiving dominants (even in the sensory realm) to be more exploratory through that of their perception before coming to an actual judgement. INFPs for example have a tendency of not wanting to extend their Ne unless it meets the values of their dominant Fi, which is very different than what you'll find in an ENFP personality type. I have found my communication to be easier to navigate with ExNPs than with INxPs, primarily because they're always coming from a judgement rather than a perception.
> 
> I'm not actually a fan of Socionics, but I do find the switch in the J and P with the introverts to make more sense.


----------



## Strelok

Paradox07 said:


> Maybe you didn't read my following reply.


Oh, well now that there was a following reply, the post you made before that doesn't exist, and you don't have to own up to being a piece of shit.


----------



## Peter

Be nice to eachother, guys. :smile:


----------



## The Proof

I know one INTJ who loves correcting people, even thought it's visible he doesn't have the full picture, he just thinks he does.

I just go "hey, whatever floats ur boat".


----------



## Necrofantasia

INTJ 





INTP


----------



## Aladdin Sane

MetaMD said:


> INTJ care aimlessness extremely. I can't tolerate having no goals. I can't tolerate my partner or family wasting time and doing nothing. INTJ can be calm and aloof, but I speak up every time I have things to communicate. I don't let things slide away.


I come from a family of low-achieving ES types who just take each day as they come. I can't imagine living without long term plans or goals like they do. I work really hard because I am terrified of ending up leading an ordinary life like them.


----------



## AlwaysQuestionLife

My INFP friend came across a great phrase: "INTJ's can come across as robots, but INTP's are the warmest robots you'll ever see."

Anyways, we're too similar to not think we're totally opposite of one another. We're so similar, but SO DIFFERENT. Weird stuff. Like convergent evolution.

Here are some differences that I don't think have been said:

INTJ's are more liked by authority figures, even though (I'm pretty sure) we both don't like authority very much. It lets them work the system a lot better than we can, though.

INTP's are natural problem-solvers, though we tend to know more of what's the worst idea than what's the best. (INTJ's may or may not know the best solution to a problem, but that's not what I'm talking about)

INTP's being err on the side of indecisive, versus INTJ's erring in being over-confident in a decision.
_
Don't burn me if these things have been addressed, 10 pages of conversation is too much to remember_


----------



## peter pettishrooms

AlwaysQuestionLife said:


> INTJ's are more liked by authority figures, even though (I'm pretty sure) we both don't like authority very much. It lets them work the system a lot better than we can, though.


The secret is ass-kissing. :wink:


----------



## maybird

peter pettishrooms said:


> The secret is ass-kissing. :wink:


Yeah, I think INTJs are a bit better at social maneuvering to achieve a goal, while INTPs would note the problem and just carry on with whatever they were doing instead of facing an overwhelming desire to 'fix' the issue. And by 'fix', I mean use our knowledge or gather information and make a decision of what is the 'correct' way and shoot for that (likely without oversight from others). I get the impression that INTPs think that INTJs are arrogant hard-asses, while INTJs think of INTPs as floppy, couch-potato versions of themselves that are often lacking in style and hygiene.


----------



## LostFavor

Oyashiro-Sama said:


> I have lately found that many people do not know the difference between INTJ INTP, which in my opinion, it is easy to differentiate, we go with the first point.
> 
> 1° INTJs often have few projects and often finish. while INTP usually have many projects but not finishing them most of the time.
> 
> 2°intj are always sure what they think 98% and they angry when they realize that not have reason, while INTP uses the words "is likely" or "maybe" when he gives his opinion and they think that be absolutely sure something is thing of inferior minds. resuming:
> 
> -intj are sure what they think 98% of the time.
> 
> -for intp, nothing is 100% sure.
> 
> 3°INTJs avoid taking risks most of the time,while INTP love endanger his skin if it's worth, doing everything for the science .
> 
> 4°intp are masters of black humor,intj are master to feel offended by black humor xd
> 
> you are free to extend the list of differentiation, although this in theory is a summary


By this logic, I am something like 4/5 of an INTP and 1/5 INTJ. 

I'm an INTJ.

I often have few _major_ projects that are ongoing, but little projects that are unfinished... I have tons of them.

I am rarely sure what I think. When I am sure is when I am most likely to speak up about it, which can give the appearance of high level of certainty if you only know me through the moments when I speak up.

I've been down the Alan Watts rabbit hole of philosophy. It's hard to say anything is sure after that. 

Also, I enjoy black humor.

You may now proceed with filing me away in your brain as an INTP who is in denial and that's why it doesn't match up.


----------



## Maquiladora

Oyashiro-Sama said:


> I have lately found that many people do not know the difference between INTJ INTP, which in my opinion, it is easy to differentiate, we go with the first point.
> 
> 1° INTJs often have few projects and often finish. while INTP usually have many projects but not finishing them most of the time.
> 
> 2°intj are always sure what they think 98% and they angry when they realize that not have reason, while INTP uses the words "is likely" or "maybe" when he gives his opinion and they think that be absolutely sure something is thing of inferior minds. resuming:
> 
> -intj are sure what they think 98% of the time.
> 
> -for intp, nothing is 100% sure.
> 
> 3°INTJs avoid taking risks most of the time,while INTP love endanger his skin if it's worth, doing everything for the science .
> 
> 4°intp are masters of black humor,intj are master to feel offended by black humor xd
> 
> you are free to extend the list of differentiation, although this in theory is a summary


I'm an INTJ, so I'll give my commentary on this. 

1) I guess this is true? It might take a while, but I usually get things done when I need to. 

2) I usually know what I think and what I want, but I'm afraid of expressing it sometimes. I'm trying to get out of my comfort zone when it comes to speaking my mind (more in real life, I'm pretty outspoken online).

3) Very true. I think a lot before I decide on doing something and weigh all the factors.

4) Nope, not like me at all. If you asked me a few years ago, I would tell you I'd get offended easily. But now I love dark comedy. You'll probably find me playing Cards Against Humanity or watching South Park on the weekend.


----------



## Derange At 170

Relevant and accurate.






Edit: God the way she talks is like hearing myself talk. Even the.. rhythm of the way she talks and she emphasizes certain words or syllables after a pause.


----------



## ExtraIntroVertical

Derange At 170 said:


> Relevant and accurate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: God the way she talks is like hearing myself talk. Even the.. rhythm of the way she talks and she emphasizes certain words or syllables after a pause.


Not going to say that she is wrong, because for the most part she isn't...but the whole xNTPs don't have any Se...yea that's bogus. We all use all 8 functions...i'd give her an A- on her dissertation...she is clearly biased towards xNTPs


----------



## Derange At 170

ExtraIntroVertical said:


> Not going to say that she is wrong, because for the most part she isn't...but the whole xNTPs don't have any Se...yea that's bogus. We all use all 8 functions...i'd give her an A- on her dissertation...she is clearly biased towards xNTPs


Absolutist claims to things involving spectrums or degrees tend to be circumstential. Compared to Ne, Ti or even Fe, I don't think she's inaccurate.


----------



## ExtraIntroVertical

Derange At 170 said:


> Absolutist claims to things involving spectrums or degrees tend to be circumstential. Compared to Ne, Ti or even Fe, I don't think she's inaccurate.


For the most part she is accurate. Absolutist=Binary, Spectrums/Degrees=Analog...we have to allow for variance in analogs..we can't account for variance when we use words such as: Because they, like, don't, like, have any Se, like...stressing the "don't." Hardly use Se, barely use Se, do not often use Se, are not very Se oriented...these all sound more accurate, but only by a slight nudge on the spectrum...


----------



## Derange At 170

ExtraIntroVertical said:


> For the most part she is accurate. Absolutist=Binary, Spectrums/Degrees=Analog...we have to allow for variance in analogs..we can't account for variance when we use words such as: Because they, like, don't, like, have any Se, like...stressing the "don't." Hardly use Se, barely use Se, do not often use Se, are not very Se oriented...these all sound more accurate, but only by a slight nudge on the spectrum...


Right, I'm just saying. She's likely just being hyperbolic.


----------



## ExtraIntroVertical

Derange At 170 said:


> Right, I'm just saying. She's likely just being hyperbolic.


I am confident I am an INTP...so why does her use of hyperbole sound like a judgment based on biased "fact?"..which is in fact, a judgment all on it's own...maybe it is her repeated display of bias for xNTP...I honestly don't know...which is Se perception...so this is getting worse...


----------



## Derange At 170

ExtraIntroVertical said:


> I am confident I am an INTP...so why does her use of hyperbole sound like a judgment based on biased "fact?"


I think you're reading too much into her just saying "xNTPs don't use Se much".


----------



## ExtraIntroVertical

Derange At 170 said:


> I think you're reading too much into her just saying "xNTPs don't use Se much".


you win, I will return to drinking. Plus her 20 minute video, although informative, cost me enough time to listen to a whole 2 TOOL songs.


----------



## Strelok

maybird said:


> I get the impression that INTPs think that INTJs are arrogant hard-asses, while INTJs think of INTPs as floppy, couch-potato versions of themselves that are often lacking in style and hygiene.


Well, that is what you think, isn't it?

What a shitpost...


----------



## maybird

Strelok said:


> Well, that is what you think, isn't it?
> 
> What a shitpost...


Me thinks the shitpost is one that just criticizes others without contributing anything to the thread or actually saying anything at all. To use terms you seem familiar with, ain't nobody got time for "fucking shitty posts clogging up forums".

To be honest, I don't get what your beef is. The majority of your posts on this thread are "INTJs think that they're superior to INTPs #INTJmasterrace". Ironically, you seem to think that INTJs believe themselves to be the master-race (<--or maybe in other words... that INTJs are arrogant? Hmm...). The statement you quoted is me saying "Yeah, if we're going to stereotype it down, most INTJs think that INTPs aren't as likely to be superficially successful". Personally, the majority of the smartest people I know are INTPs. I've been in a relationship with an INTP for a little over a year now, and he's absolutely brilliant, and my brother and father are INTPs. I'm a big fan of the INTP. But I'm aware that on this forum and with other INTJs I know, they don't think as highly of INTPs as a whole.


----------



## Strelok

maybird said:


> Ironically, you seem to think that INTJs believe themselves to be the master-race


But... you just provided your little personal take on "why INTPs are floppy, couch-potato versions of [INTJs] that are lacking in style and hygiene", and then went on to say that INTJs tend to think just that. How can you... Ugh, fuck it.



maybird said:


> Personally, the majority of the smartest people I know are INTPs. I've been in a relationship with an INTP for a little over a year now, and he's absolutely brilliant, and my brother and father are INTPs. I'm a big fan of the INTP. But I'm aware that on this forum and with other INTJs I know, they don't think as highly of INTPs as a whole.


Well that sure conflicts with "aw yeh INTJs achieve goals and they go out of their way to fix things without supervision, whereas INTPs just note the problem and go back to farting around. Say, I get the impression that INTPs think INTJs are shitters, and INTJs think that INTPs are just broken versions of INTJs."


----------



## smokeafish

In my experience with my intp buddies and my intj nemeses, intp are much more objective and accurate about pretty much everything assuming they have really thought it through which ninety percent of the time, regardless of the topic, they have, intjs on the other hand are incredible brain boxes but don't seem to mind sacrificing accuracy for efficiency, of which they have untold amounts, like, it's kinda scary, they master a thing and move on, rinse and repeat, till they are exceptional at a huge list of things
An intp (if matured) will constantly think in terms of objectivity and the rules of logic, if the rules are true they must be correct and as far as we know deductive logic is not flawed, whereas intjs using inductive logic accept a thing when they have evidence, reason out the rest and accept their own theory until and often after contradictory evidence arises, of course both types use induction and deduction but they each tend to prefer one
Intjs too are absolute gods when it comes to predicting the future and preparing for it, intps struggle more here as they see too many possibilities and focus on details to such a degree that they can prepare immensely better for the future but will take sooooo much longer to do so, entp here btw, can project into future very well but don't seem to have the ability to sift through and determine probabilities of events, get carried away with possibilities and my mind just doesn't allow for certainty as it sees every damn thing as possible, have trouble using evidence based (inductive) reasoning at all lol, all knowledge in my mind is tentative, nothing is ever assumed as true but is almost a placeholder till the next theory or evolution of that theory comes along/transpires
As entp, I love both types, the only thing that beats my stupidly in depth for the sake of it discussions with my intp buds is my mental sparring with my intj nemeses 
Also as entp, just to chuck it in there, we can be good with details but nothing captures our attention for long enough, I see the big picture easily and tend to be right about the bottom line but my statements tend to be too general to be accessibly illuminating and in discussion i get too hyped up/am not capable enough of stepping back (can't think properly in company) for true objectivity (only in regards to details though), I still though have epic intuitive skills, like I somehow know things all the damn time, half my use of thinking is trying to explain these intuitive impressions


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## Grandmaster Yoda

INTPs break down the meaning of sentences to answer questions.
INTJs as Ni dominants are rather satisfied with a lack of clarity, with hidden meaning.


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## Paradox07

smokeafish said:


> intjs on the other hand are incredible brain boxes but don't seem to mind sacrificing accuracy for efficiency, of which they have untold amounts, like, it's kinda scary, they master a thing and move on, rinse and repeat, till they are exceptional at a huge list of things


I would make the argument that I can’t stand doing things just for the sake of efficiency, as I care as well about how effective something is long-term. For example, if I’m going to be learning something new, it needs to be put into practice rather than just sitting on a theoretical framework of that system and it has to work. Accuracy isn't being sacrificed, but rather theory without application is.

In other words, efficiency is only one factor here. More than likely if an INTJ disregards something you say, it's because they don't see it being effective.


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## smokeafish

Paradox07 said:


> I would make the argument that I can’t stand doing things just for the sake of efficiency, as I care as well about how effective something is long-term. For example, if I’m going to be learning something new, it needs to be put into practice rather than just sitting on a theoretical framework of that system and it has to work. Accuracy isn't being sacrificed, but rather theory without application is.
> 
> In other words, efficiency is only one factor here. More than likely if an INTJ disregards something you say, it's because they don't see it being effective.


I'm unsure as to how exactly it manifests and I'm sure you as an intj, having experienced this first hand can make a much more informed statement about the motivating factors. My description was based on observation so lacks in depth personal perspective. Arguably though and I mean this as no insult, the desire to implement theory towards some practical purpose does likely mean there will be less consideration for the sake of considering, I think this can often lead to less accuracy than say an intps epic detail focused considerations. (If my sources are to be trusted) intjs tend to concern themselves with the universal principals on which things work and intps on the specific details of how things work, one leads to a more in depth picture whilst the other moves towards application. Of course though people have their own specific biases neither objectively speaking is superior.
Would you say this is a more accurate view? Not putting emphasis on efficiency but instead upon general principles underlying the workings of things (likely with a view toward application). Unsure if I should be trusting the webpage I'm currently reading though it seems spot on about entp/intp.


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## Catwalk

smokeafish said:


> In my experience with my intp buddies and my intj nemeses, intp are much more objective and accurate about pretty much everything assuming they have really thought it through which ninety percent of the time, regardless of the topic, they have, intjs on the other hand are incredible brain boxes but don't seem to mind sacrificing accuracy for efficiency, of which they have untold amounts, like, it's kinda scary, they master a thing and move on, rinse and repeat, till they are exceptional at a huge list of things


For the most part; I think you are the right ''track,'' - however, the misconception arises with [unthought] through; generally a (Ni)-dom as already 'thought,' through + considered the ''entire,'' picture - that is, [processed multiple options] before the decision is made -- the (Ni) in INTJ is ''feeding,'' constantly, thus, it is assumed what is _efficiently_ executed, is not accurately + rationally thought through. As already stated, which is ''efficient,'' is what will effectively work best [temporarily] - INTJ will consider many possibilities and likely switch if (X, Y, Z) is ineffective + slowing down with being inefficient. Hence :: dislike for routine // easily bored - et al. But still desire rules [organization].

However; we 'expel,' useless things and dislike 'possibility + idea' _hoarding_ if they simply ineffective // inefficient. This is why we do not ''get lost,'' in endless possibilites - while acquiring them.

This is, to some extent, false - an INTJ will not [efficiently] execute something, without a thoroughly [whether planned] - or what is that, that rationally makes sense - hence* :: *INTJ dislike 'surprises' + too much sponetanousness.


In respect(s) to NTJ - the ENTJ (Te)-dom, would be more likely to sacrifice ''accuracy,'' for *efficiency *- hence :: ENTJ leader(s). An INTJ will 'exhaust,' one specific thing - or [pick something apart] quite often first if the most effective option to be most efficient is [unknown] or ambiguous - or perhaps just for brain-thirst fun / curiosity; but will only do this to the point where a pragmatic decision can be executed rationally. For INTJ, this work(s) fast.

ENTJ - have much stronger ''Just do it,'' mentalities - an INTJ will reject this without a reason + rational explanation for doing so. (Ti / Fi). Which is where the ''snappiness'' of INTJ come from with (Fi) emerges. This is also why INTJ are the breaks on ENTJ.

INTJ also like clarity, as well - without ''clarity,'' [direct goals + outputs] an INTJ will likely not *execute* or become anxious with the lack of clarity, closure and ambiguity. ''Don't hold back,'' .. mentalities for us. Hence :: The desire for being direct // honest // firm.

But, we will pragmatically make a ''decision.'' That is, an INTJ is much more likely to pragmatically [in terms of efficiency] make a decision [ the most rational + optimal ] one to make, even if not the best one overall and uncertainty still hangs. That is, there are many possibilities to be considered, and thus, to make a decision on - rather than slowly [pick apart every single option] to make a decision. 

Also, with leading (Ni) - that would be unnecessary - as we already being ''driven,'' by predictive assumption(s) of ea. option available - which is makes us pragmatic, in another sense.

This is because we desire clarity + a broad [big picture spectrum] and also *closure* + answers. This is also why INTJ seem more [close-minded // hardheaded] than P types - however, I would argue this isn't much true [lack of understanding].


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## Paradox07

smokeafish said:


> (If my sources are to be trusted) intjs tend to concern themselves with the universal principals on which things work and intps on the specific details of how things work, one leads to a more in depth picture whilst the other moves towards application. Of course though people have their own specific biases neither objectively speaking is superior.


I noticed that articles written about INTJs have a tendency of excluding Ni from INTJs, which a part of this is because they either don't know how the function works or they think intuition takes a back seat to logic (welcome to every comparison between INTPs and INTJs). It first needs to be understood that Introverted Intuition is an exploratory function, which means that an INTJ will spend a considerably long-time reaching for closure on any particular thing that catches their interest, but with that process comes understanding. Welcome to an INTJs perfectionist nature.

The thing is, INTJs are not trying to define things into neat little systems, but rather they're more concerned with playing outside of a theoretical framework to see what different results they can produce, and with that process comes a practical understanding of how things work, that yes, can be applied holistically, _but not first without a considerable amount of thought_.


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## intpnoob

INTJ: empiricism, surety, critique, more into method and less into improvisation

INTP: theory, questioning, less critical, more into improvisation and less into method.


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## intpnoob

Paradox07 said:


> I'm not actually a fan of Socionics, but I do find the switch in the J and P with the introverts to make more sense.


if you find that switch to make more sense, then you'd see the LII description starts to muddle up the stereotypical INTP laziness and ineffectuality. The INTj in socionics is painted as a much more industrious and accomplished character while the INTp (ILI) is associated with the more stereotypical INTP traits.


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## MetaMD

Strelok said:


> But... you just provided your little personal take on "why INTPs are floppy, couch-potato versions of [INTJs] that are lacking in style and hygiene", and then went on to say that INTJs tend to think just that. How can you... Ugh, fuck it.
> 
> Well that sure conflicts with "aw yeh INTJs achieve goals and they go out of their way to fix things without supervision, whereas INTPs just note the problem and go back to farting around. Say, I get the impression that INTPs think INTJs are shitters, and INTJs think that INTPs are just broken versions of INTJs."


Those comments were not from @maybird. Why do you need to force your anger on her? Another thing is one or two people who posted these comments don't represent INTJ as a whole. I remember seeing those posts, and they weren't even posted by INTJs. 

Please keep in mind there is no qualification of any sort for people to join this forum and post here. We do get random shit posts and random people who have anger issue like you. Please understand we are tolerating you doesn't mean that you can continue disrespecting other members on this forum. People have freedom of speech, just like how we have tolerated you call others shit. 

If you cannot tolerate seeing any post to your disliking, maybe it is your pride that blinds you seeing the truth. Who is Nazi and master race here to bully others into INTP pride? If you want to prove your intelligence, please prove it with logic and reason, not by calling people shit, and fuck it. Remember, your behaviors are how people see you as an example to stereotype INTPs. 

I personally don't take these discussions seriously. Com'on.  Why would I take any one who randomly stereotypes individuals as a group seriously? Are there any qualification and validity from these online discussions? If you have no tolerance reading opinions other than your own, you probably don't want to go to any of these online forums.


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## smokeafish

Minx said:


> For the most part; I think you are the right ''track,'' - however, the misconception arises with [unthought] through; generally a (Ni)-dom as already 'thought,' through + considered the ''entire,'' picture - that is, [processed multiple options] before the decision is made -- the (Ni) in INTJ is ''feeding,'' constantly, thus, it is assumed what is _efficiently_ executed, is not accurately + rationally thought through. As already stated, which is ''efficient,'' is what will effectively work best [temporarily] - INTJ will consider many possibilities and likely switch if (X, Y, Z) is ineffective + slowing down with being inefficient. Hence :: dislike for routine // easily bored - et al. But still desire rules [organization].


Taking Ni into consideration and considering the inward directed nature of it. It contributes largely to the overall picture you generate and work with. Ne in contrast (I=entp) is very divergent and seems to actually confuse things when trying to be analytical as it serves up too much data to analyse (if actively engaged with external details) (though I believe is more restrained in the intp). I think the differentiation I was trying to draw albeit not so well expressed or thought through hence the lack of precision in language (i.e. - efficiency may not have been the correct term) is that with Ni processing things towards convergence behind the scenes and directing your attention to specific elements of what is being considered there is more room to err than with Ti as a leading function which dissects everything till there's nothing left or boredom occurs.
I take your point in regards to not specifically sacrificing efficiency for accuracy and in the language I used I actually kind of implied that it was a decision made by the intj. However after your message I can see I dumbed the whole concept down to near personality profile levels. My answer was based on observation after the fact as opposed to dissection of the methodology involved. 
Your answer was very illuminating in gaining more understanding into the workings of the intj mind. If you don't mind illuminating me a little further I'd like to ask a few questions in regards to Ni.
Firstly, to what degree would you say you are aware of the content of your "intuitions" as they are being formed? With Ne for example my mind always recognizes when something is out of place then works quietly in the background until a eureka type moment. It's capable of devising a million explanations but for correctness it's better to just give it time to process. Are you aware of the picture as it builds or does come together in an instant (with Ne it's usually triggered weirdly by something unrelated), I'm aware both happen with Ne and likely with Ni but the eureka type moment is more common with Ne and I'm wondering the trend with your experience of Ni. Annoyingly functional descriptions are far too abstract to explain the experience very well.
Secondly in seeing the big picture. Is it clear enough to you that you can pick out specific components and their workings within the big picture (in terms of raw un-elaborated upon "intuitions") or does this have to be thought through after your intuition has processed this to specifically ascertain details. With my Ne for example the big picture is clear and so are the components but my Ti needs to recreate the links between them so that I can understand the impressions my Ne feeds me.
I hope I'm not being a nuisance here in questioning you about this but I am utterly intrigued. Also apologies to anyone on the thread who takes issue to my questioning here being in the wrong thread.


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## smokeafish

Paradox07 said:


> I noticed that articles written about INTJs have a tendency of excluding Ni from INTJs, which a part of this is because they either don't know how the function works or they think intuition takes a back seat to logic (welcome to every comparison between INTPs and INTJs). It first needs to be understood that Introverted Intuition is an exploratory function, which means that an INTJ will spend a considerably long-time reaching for closure on any particular thing that catches their interest, but with that process comes understanding. Welcome to an INTJs perfectionist nature.
> 
> The thing is, INTJs are not trying to define things into neat little systems, but rather they're more concerned with playing outside of a theoretical framework to see what different results they can produce, and with that process comes a practical understanding of how things work, that yes, can be applied holistically, _but not first without a considerable amount of thought_.


I just replied to Minx, the commenter above your last response in this thread with what is essentially my response to you also. I'm trying to get a better picture of Ni so my response here may have been flawed, I also ask a few questions of Minx in regards to how Ni manifests which I would ask you also if you're willing to indulge me. Ty


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## tinyheart

(INTJ brother and INTP dad)

Bro: Why are you so lazy
Dad: Lazy?! I cut the grass and trimmed the weeds..
Bro: ...and you went in to use the bathroom and never came back...

Bro: So do you want me to give you a ride to the store or nah?
Dad: After my show
*show ends*
Bro: So are we--
Dad: *zzzzzzz*

Bro: *about to take a shower*
Dad: NO! I WAS ABOUT TO TAKE A SHOWER!
*dad has towel ready in bathroom*
Bro: Hurry up, then. I work the night shift.
*half hour later*
Bro: *goes to take shower anyway*
Dad: I said I was gonna take a shower!

*dad has multiple projects started and unfinished around the house*
Dad: I think Imma install cabinets in the kitchen.
Bro: *sigh..*
Dad: TAKE EVERYTHING OUT OF THE KITCHEN! IMMA REMODEL THE S*** OUT OF THAT B****!
*a month later, cabinet is in living room, pantry is in dining room...*
Dad: Imma build a gazebo.


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## Catwalk

smokeafish said:


> Your answer was very illuminating in gaining more understanding into the workings of the intj mind. If you don't mind illuminating me a little further I'd like to ask a few questions in regards to Ni.


:tongues: 




> Firstly, to what degree would you say you are aware of the content of your "intuitions" as they are being formed? With Ne for example my mind always recognizes when something is out of place then works quietly in the background until a eureka type moment. It's capable of devising a million explanations but for correctness it's better to just give it time to process. Are you aware of the picture as it builds or does come together in an instant (with Ne it's usually triggered weirdly by something unrelated), I'm aware both happen with Ne and likely with Ni but the eureka type moment is more common with Ne and I'm wondering the trend with your experience of Ni. Annoyingly functional descriptions are far too abstract to explain the experience very well.
> Secondly in seeing the big picture. Is it clear enough to you that you can pick out specific components and their workings within the big picture (in terms of raw un-elaborated upon "intuitions") or does this have to be thought through after your intuition has processed this to specifically ascertain details. With my Ne for example the big picture is clear and so are the components but my Ti needs to recreate the links between them so that I can understand the impressions my Ne feeds me.
> I hope I'm not being a nuisance here in questioning you about this but I am utterly intrigued. Also apologies to anyone on the thread who takes issue to my questioning here being in the wrong thread.



I think (Ni) - work(s) both consciously + unconsciously for me it appear(s) very [inward + internalized] so much to the point where it ''unsconiously,'' slides by - and may manifest in other ways.

It is like 'gear,' churning all the time [pushing] + generating lots of ''things that are not there,'' ... But I think our (T) ''slows'' it down (&) passes it through a logical + conscise scanner. Internalizing and narrowing. How ''fast,'' the scanner work(s) differs, sometimes it works in 30 seconds or 3 days - unlike an INTP who would probably be ''skeptical,'' of what is logically processed through the scanner, for me, it has [already] been passed through my logical processing unit, and thus, I make a decision on it (&) hold on to that decision - but there are so many other possibilities my (Ni) all generated and left behind as residue. This appear(s) like a bunch of 'ideas // hunch-like assumptions,' and ''matter of facts,'' - or ''maybe that might ... can .. could ..,'' The INTP, seem to go into a ''continuum,'' of this - without decision or closure.

Picture ton(s) arrows going in all direction(s) with lots of twists and turns, and a logical processing [box] unit at the bottom of the chart for the INTJ. 

Take the staircase :: -- the stairs are (Ni) generating on possibilities, view them as an escalator always moving throughout life - the ''chandelier,'' are all these Aha's! The door at the ending (via) the staircase at the top, is the logical processing unit - the logical processing unit consists of [analyzing + evaulation + forming logical ''steps // structures'' or strategy these ideas [IN*T*J] - this allows me long-term plan, as well.











The desire for 'closure,' puts my (Ni) at ease - because it's just fed me a lot of possibilities (&) gibberish - it makes me anxious - it will move on (Ni)'ing around other things. 

In this sense, I can be a perfectionist - because I become extremely ''critical,'' with being feed so many 'possible,' could be's ... Thus, to some it appear(s) like I am giving 'insightful,' criticism of some sort - I say it very clearly; some find it ''offensive,'' or insensitive - while I am obvious to it; thus, I hold off. 


Imagine the chess board *::* - As if when presented with [life] or many differential perception(s) of just being ''human,'' - on the chess board, my (Ni) will quickly and unconsciously 'take' this in, and give me a big ''picture,'' - I do not really 'see,' the picture - it just feels like knowing.












On the chess board - it may manifest in many 'possible,' moves of invisible chess pieces move along the board - I may fall 'deep' in concentration or thought because all these thing(s) are happening within my head (&) go with the ''strongest,'' inituition that passes through my logical processing unit or just go with whatever ''just feels right,'' [Do not confuse with Fi] ... I may not even ''know,'' the rules of anything about chess - but my (Ni) is giving me thing(s) + feeding me all these ''ways,'' + possible ideas of how it would + could work. But it is all [intenalized] - it is not so much coming from ''outside,'' .. if this makes sense; it is rather complicated to explain, [lol].

Sometimes; it is like a random 'lightbulb,' that comes on (&) I just execute thing(s) on whilm or say it, 

Someone would say; ''How did you do that?! I did not even see that,'' - and I would not know how to answer. Perhap(s) just ''shrug,'' - it was just an Aha or something that came to me.

Also, I have been accused of saying completely random + strange thing(s) at a strange time - perhap(s) at the most random times - like, ''Have you ever thought (X, Y, Z),'' - and they will just look at me rather strange, like ''wut?'' ... 


In the same way; when I ''approach,'' a specific locality - my (Ni) is feels like it is consciously / unconsciously feeding me thing(s) (&) most times they are completely irrational; and I know this, thus I shy away from too much 'spontanouseness,' as I haven't thought it through - or figured out which is more effiecient // effective like Paradox implied. Everything is working together w/ (Ni). 


Ex (1) --> 

You have the INFJ - that has the [Fe] - so folk(s) go ''what the fuck are you talking about INFJ?!?!'' No one said that.


When I finally come to a 'conclusive,' [sure] effective // efficient idea - I execute it and ''see what happens,'' even if I am not certain on it. Sometimes, I will have more than one I will execute [experiment] with.

I will 'wear' it out until someone challenges it (&) proves it [through logical / rational / factual] data + explanation. It is not so much, I think I am ''right,'' but it gives additional 'confidence,' - it is that this CHALLENGE gives [details] that I have missed - because I do miss detail(s) in many things. When I get ''challenged,'' the details I missed are bought to light - I 'store,' this (&) dismiss ideas / possibilites as ''useless,'' and constantly go from one thing to another.

I would not repeat the same thing over (&) over, and likely rarely return to anything in the past to get my data / info from.

I hope this helps somewhat .. (?) I have tried to explain best I can.


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## smokeafish

Thank you, that was a great explanation of Ni, confirms a few ideas I had, disproves a few. Much in common with Ne as I know it, constantly getting indications about everything, working models etc. 
The real difference as profiles suggest appears to be convergence vs divergence and seeking closure/seeking yet more possibilities (may be more linked to thinking style than I had reckoned) but now I can actually understand the methodology a lot better. Like the convergence appears to not be just your intuition serving you one concrete answer as the profiles suggest but more a motivated direction that you purposefully strive towards. Very interesting.
The comparison is great for me as I can now infer to some degree the basis of intuition and the differences the intro/extro direction makes, not exactly concrete but still great for understanding. Thank you very much for taking the time to answer in so much detail


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## Paradox07

smokeafish said:


> I just replied to Minx, the commenter above your last response in this thread with what is essentially my response to you also. I'm trying to get a better picture of Ni so my response here may have been flawed, I also ask a few questions of Minx in regards to how Ni manifests which I would ask you also if you're willing to indulge me. Ty


She summed it up well, I have no further comments to make on the subject.


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## Strelok

MetaMD said:


> Those comments were not from @maybird. Why do you need to force your anger on her? Another thing is one or two people who posted these comments don't represent INTJ as a whole. I remember seeing those posts, and they weren't even posted by INTJs.


I quoted the very post where she said those things, so I'm not sure what you're on about here.


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## MetaMD

Strelok said:


> I quoted the very post where she said those things, so I'm not sure what you're on about here.


My apology that I didn't remember those 2 quotes well because this thread has been going on for a while with many pages. Still, even if she said those things, it doesn't give you the right being disrespectful using profanity.


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