# ESTP Vs ISTP



## Tad Cooper

How can you figure out the difference if the ESTP isn't especially extroverted in their behaviour?
What would you say they would look like if they had negative functions or if they were held back?
What are their inferior functions like with their dominant ones?


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## GreenCoyote

this is just a thought but I would look to the movements of the two types you are comparing. 

ISTP has rigid movements and can be seen as "unflappable" whereas the ESTP (who also seems confident) is more "cat-like" in their movements.


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## Black Ronin

If they show a good amount of Ni with their Ti/Se, I know it's an ISTP.
If they show a good amount of Fe with their Se/Ti, I know it's an ESTP


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## Carmine Ermine

I think ESTPs have a lot of natural "positive affectivity" which in other words is curiosity, joy and excitement (which they do feel but it may not be obvious to others). Also for ESTPs, pleasurable things are easily seen as good, for example one of my foundational ideas about existence is that "beauty is the best thing".


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## Raichu

I'm not especially outgoing, but I'm more cheerful and positive than ISTP's seem. More Fe, less Ni. Also, because of the tertiary Ni and dominant Ti, a lot of ISTP's are closer to INTPs, whereas ESTP's, because of the dominant Se and tertiary Fe, seem more ESFPish.


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## FacePalm

In my mind, ESTP's are basically more fun and outgoing and talkative version of ISTP's. But ISTP's are far more deep and insightful in some area.


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## Raichu

More fun, yes. More excitable and enthusiastic.

Like every time I hear a song I like, I go "GUYS, GUYS! _THIS IS MY FAVORITE SONG!! _ " whereas ISTP's are all "Oh yeah cool whatever man."
JK but really


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## Antrist

I honestly can't tell which of these types I am and was looking more for answers than to contribute. Unusually, would I be wrong in the assumption than ISTPs make a lot more eye contact than ESTPs?
Also I observed very large differences in sense of humour between I' and E'. By this I particularly mean the expert delivery of straight-faced ISTP 'a little on the dark side' jokes.


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## zynthaxx

GreenCoyote said:


> this is just a thought but I would look to the movements of the two types you are comparing.
> 
> ISTP has rigid movements and can be seen as "unflappable" whereas the ESTP (who also seems confident) is more "cat-like" in their movements.


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## StephMC

This has always been tough for me to differentiate, unless I can see/speak with the STP in question in person. A few ESTPs I've come across think they're introverted -- secondary Ti can make any extraverted dom feel introverted. The best way I can put the differences are: 

- ESTPs seem like natural alpha males/females. ISTPs are pretty indifferent to that, and probably come off as beta males/females. In fact, I prefer being seen as a beta female because it impedes my independence less.
- Throw an ISTP and ESTP in an unfamiliar or uncomfortable social setting, and an ESTP will at least _appear _significantly more comfortable. This would put a lot of stress on me. I'm not the best at faking body language or facial expressions.
- ISTPs are better able to sit still. (Hah.) ESTP's are typically more energetic and have trouble turning that energy off. They exude energy, even when they are sitting calmly and paying attention.
- I have an unofficial theory that if you can't decide if a person are ISTP or ESTP and they happen to be a type 7... they are more likely an ESTP.
- ESTPs are a little more opinionated and share their thoughts more, maybe due to tertiary Fe -- they're a little more naturally influential. ISTPs see little reason to share their opinion/thoughts with others.


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## firedell

ESTP's have more optimism.

I know for a fact that when I talk to an ISTP about a problem, they kind of start to join in about their problems too. Not in a selfish way, more in a relating way. Compare that to ESTP's who are more "I'm sorry you feel that way. You are a kind person... let's go out and have fun." and they try to lighten the mood. They empathise more, and try to get you to see the brighter things.

I believe this is because their Se and Fe is in higher use.


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## Antrist

firedell said:


> ESTP's have more optimism.
> 
> I know for a fact that when I talk to an ISTP about a problem, they kind of start to join in about their problems too. Not in a selfish way, more in a relating way. Compare that to ESTP's who are more "I'm sorry you feel that way. You are a kind person... let's go out and have fun." and they try to lighten the mood. They empathise more, and try to get you to see the brighter things.
> 
> I believe this is because their Se and Fe is in higher use.


Your theory makes sense, as ISTPs also have more dominant Ni. That's the part that decides to relate and share only very select Fe.


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## StephMC

firedell said:


> ESTP's have more optimism.
> 
> I know for a fact that when I talk to an ISTP about a problem, they kind of start to join in about their problems too. Not in a selfish way, more in a relating way. Compare that to ESTP's who are more "I'm sorry you feel that way. You are a kind person... let's go out and have fun." and they try to lighten the mood. They empathise more, and try to get you to see the brighter things.
> 
> I believe this is because their Se and Fe is in higher use.


Haha, yes... this sounds true. I would imagine both types want to show empathy, but ESTP's tertiary Fe is just better at it. I try my best to take that approach, but either dom Ti tells me I _have_ to either fix their problem or give valuable input, or inferior Fe thinks relating to a person using my own experiences counts as empathy, e.g., "I totally understand how you feel... I've been through something similar" -- but I promise we mean well!

Anyways, +1... this is probably a really good difference between the two types


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## firedell

StephMC said:


> Haha, yes... this sounds true. I would imagine both types want to show empathy, but ESTP's tertiary Fe is just better at it. I try my best to take that approach, but either dom Ti tells me I _have_ to either fix their problem or give valuable input, or inferior Fe thinks relating to a person using my own experiences counts as empathy, e.g., "I totally understand how you feel... I've been through something similar" -- but I promise we mean well!
> 
> Anyways, +1... this is probably a really good difference between the two types


This only came to me while I was talking to both an ISTP, and ESTP about my problems. So, maybe the credit isn't due. xD But I started to notice a trend between the both of them. Knowing them both for quiet some years, they react similarly each time.

When you come to an ISTP, they make you feel less alone in your worries. He seems to also take it in a "deeper" way. I feel like he actually listens to what I have to say by talking to me about it.

Whereas the ESTP simply just empathises, and doesn't open up about anything that worries him personally. He also doesn't really advise me about anything either, like sometimes an ISTP can do. From previous experience with this ESTP too, I have seen him more open to cry through empathising with someone's problem. 

And while I may have probably just expanded and what I said, one other thing popped up while asking them both a question. Which may show the difference between a Ti dom and an Se dom. I asked "*Do you live because you are alive, or because you have something to live for?*" They both responded "What an interesting question." But the difference was this:

ISTP: "I guess I live because I am curious to discover what life throws my way."
ESTP: "I honestly cannot answer this. I think, then do it. There isn't much beyond that."


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## Antrist

firedell said:


> I asked "*Do you live because you are alive, or because you have something to live for?*" They both responded "What an interesting question." But the difference was this:
> 
> ISTP: "I guess I live because I am curious to discover what life throws my way."
> ESTP: "I honestly cannot answer this. I think, then do it. There isn't much beyond that."


I often find myself in search of the answer to that question, but I really don't know. I've never really cared enough about any one particular thing for long enough to make decisions about a career etc. I made it about personal development when I decided I want to join the Police. I haven't done it yet, but it's the longest plan I've ever made (and it's only 2-3 years long). It stemmed from deep-running anger fuelled by people who prey upon others and make their lives hell. I also fantasise about keeping people alive in the face of environmental dangers, whether they are caused by people or not.

Sorry for the long, inappropriate reply but I'm trying to figure out which of these two types I belong to.


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## itsme45

Sooo, I'm curious if this makes me ESTP over ISTP or the other way around. 




StephMC said:


> This has always been tough for me to differentiate, unless I can see/speak with the STP in question in person. A few ESTPs I've come across think they're introverted -- secondary Ti can make any extraverted dom feel introverted.


Yea that will be me, I met someone recently who also knows MBTI... For fun I asked what type I seemed, I was told Introvert and specifically ISTP -.- Yeah I wasn't really trying to use much Fe heh. I'm often not in the mood or just simply not feel capable of doing Fe at times (this depends) or want to filter it so much to make it work well that it ends up staying passive. If that makes sense.

Thanks for your neat list btw 




> - ESTPs seem like natural alpha males/females. ISTPs are pretty indifferent to that, and probably come off as beta males/females. In fact, I prefer being seen as a beta female because it impedes my independence less.


Mind elaborating on how you decide who seems alpha vs beta especially if you already know they're xSTP?




> Throw an ISTP and ESTP in an unfamiliar or uncomfortable social setting, and an ESTP will at least _appear _significantly more comfortable. This would put a lot of stress on me. I'm not the best at faking body language or facial expressions.


Oh this is pretty simple, in such a situation I'll smile a few times at most and not put more effort into it, not forcing any extra Fe, I'll just do my own thing instead. This way I kill three birds with one stone: I don't have to put too much energy into it and also I can be sure I don't fuck up at Fe skills and I don't have to overadjust.
Doesn't mean it's ideal for me this way though. Just the easiest way to cope.




> - ISTPs are better able to sit still. (Hah.) ESTP's are typically more energetic and have trouble turning that energy off. They exude energy, even when they are sitting calmly and paying attention.


Now I don't know that one, I would have to ask someone else how they see me in terms of that. I mean, I'm usually told I'm energetic and fast but I dunno about how it's coming off when I'm sitting. I can sit still for a long time but it feels a bit forced/feels like a learned thing.




> - I have an unofficial theory that if you can't decide if a person are ISTP or ESTP and they happen to be a type 7... they are more likely an ESTP.


Have 7 fix maybe. My brother didn't want to see me as 7 core. I don't either, anymore. I'm just not as much fun either  (In some tests I was 7w8.)




> - ESTPs are a little more opinionated and share their thoughts more, maybe due to tertiary Fe -- they're a little more naturally influential. ISTPs see little reason to share their opinion/thoughts with others.


That would be ESTP here for me.




firedell said:


> ESTP's have more optimism.


Ok, that one's ESTP.

You got some cool stuff too thanks.  Will reply below to the rest too.



> When you come to an ISTP, they make you feel less alone in your worries. He seems to also take it in a "deeper" way. I feel like he actually listens to what I have to say by talking to me about it.
> 
> Whereas the ESTP simply just empathises, and doesn't open up about anything that worries him personally. He also doesn't really advise me about anything either, like sometimes an ISTP can do. From previous experience with this ESTP too, I have seen him more open to cry through empathising with someone's problem.


No way in hell that I'd start crying too, don't get me wrong, I don't have anything against the idea but I just don't have empathy this strong. I will just start up the problem solving mode to try and help. Otoh, I have a friend who's depressed and I did offer to take her out to help her feel better but I didn't say that when she was complaining, not directly related to that, I said it later, just in general wanted to have a good time for the both of us.
Hm and no, I don't really open up at all much, not in this case either.




> And while I may have probably just expanded and what I said, one other thing popped up while asking them both a question. Which may show the difference between a Ti dom and an Se dom. I asked "*Do you live because you are alive, or because you have something to live for?*" They both responded "What an interesting question." But the difference was this:
> 
> ISTP: "I guess I live because I am curious to discover what life throws my way."
> ESTP: "I honestly cannot answer this. I think, then do it. There isn't much beyond that."


The ESTP answer seems way too simple to me. But I can't really answer why I live. I can't tell you if there's meaning in this universe or not. So I can't answer the question about life either. Is that ESTP-ish? 

Btw sure I'm curious to see "what life throws my way" but it makes no sense to make that the cause of my living... unless you mean why I don't try to kill myself instead of living. Well, I don't, because the survival instinct overrides everything else even if I wanted to kill myself.. and no I don't want to anyway because I value this life, this world. Yes I used the word "value", which I don't often do but this is special here. I could've just used the word "love" too, though... And then yes I'm not thinking of suicide also because I like to see what life throws my way. Yeah but why's that ISTP?!


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## Brian1

I was just going to add, in this corner we have weighing in at 200 lbs, ISTP...


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## Brian1

itsme45 said:


> The ESTP answer seems way too simple to me. But I can't really answer why I live. I can't tell you if there's meaning in this universe or not. So I can't answer the question about life either. Is that ESTP-ish?
> 
> Btw sure I'm curious to see "what life throws my way" but it makes no sense to make that the cause of my living... unless you mean why I don't try to kill myself instead of living. Well, I don't, because the survival instinct overrides everything else even if I wanted to kill myself.. and no I don't want to anyway because I value this life, this world. Yes I used the word "value", which I don't often do but this is special here. I could've just used the word "love" too, though... And then yes I'm not thinking of suicide also because I like to see what life throws my way. Yeah but why's that ISTP?!


This part I can really relate too, about suicide, I just have this instinct, that I don't want to do that. I also think that I'm too poor to do it successfully, so I just sally forth the experience, and get on with the business of living.


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## randomki11s

Main difference between my ISTP roommate and me is ... when we go do stuff, like even just walking somewhere ... kinda falls in slightly behind me, even when I don't really know where I'm going either haha.


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## itsme45

randomki11s said:


> Main difference between my ISTP roommate and me is ... when we go do stuff, like even just walking somewhere ... kinda falls in slightly behind me, even when I don't really know where I'm going either haha.


meaning you go/"do" faster than him?


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## petitpèlerin

Thorweeps said:


> As far as alphas are concerned, I don't think istp is necessarily a beta. I tell my friends the loud, in-your-face alpha is super easy to deal with and no real threat, but it's the QUIET alpha they really have to be weary of and careful around. I see us as hidden alphas that don't see the need to be in charge all the time. And I never back down when someone steps into my zone with an attitude.


Brilliant.


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## Bassmasterzac

petitpèlerin said:


> _You _can't get me out of my shell. I come out when I want, if I want, how I want.
> 
> Besides, we're not fully turtles. You think we're not moving but we have roadrunner legs. You'll see nothing but a dust cloud.


Alright, alright. Let me specify! They're more like Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. :laughing:


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## petitpèlerin

Bassmasterzac said:


> Alright, alright. Let me specify! They're more like Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. :laughing:


LOL! Awesome! I love it!


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## Thorweeps

petitpèlerin said:


> _You _can't get me out of my shell. I come out when I want, if I want, how I want.
> 
> Besides, we're not fully turtles. You think we're not moving but we have roadrunner legs. You'll see nothing but a dust cloud.


Exactly. My friends (and other people nearby that are somewhat familiar to me) tell me they are always afraid of saying the wrong thing around me because I can erupt into a "hulk" (their words) in an instant and terrify everyone around. Then return to "whatever" a second later.


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