# Emotionally manipulative ISFJ family members



## Kitagawa Megumi (Jan 13, 2010)

Hi there, I'm an INTP and for as long as I can remember - could not relate to any of my family members as they are all SJs. Especially my mother and older brother who are both ISFJs. Two days ago, my brother threatened to commit suicide, twice, now for an INTP whose inferior function, Fe is their auxiliary function - it is very damaging and draining to have to deal with their shit. It wasn't hard to pull him away from the incoming cars when he stood in the middle of the road, waving his arms. If he thought that that made me want to love him, then he's got another thing coming. I have lost most of my respect for him, from what I can see - he did that for attention and as a cry for help, to get a reaction out of me because he so desperately needs it. 

He's a self proclaimed mother's boy, and call me judgemental? He alternates between being a 12 year old child and a 67 year old grumpy, cynical debbie downer. But i do think it is abnormal for a 25 y o to still have his mother wake him from his sleep. Mind you, mother is overseas and has to call him via phone. Because, according to him, he isn't able to wake up. So, two days ago he asks me to do the same thing. I wasn't very happy, but agreed to do so. Now, his alarm clock can go ringing for hours and he'd rouse from sleep only hours after setting his clock. He'd just let it ring, however, when mother calls I think he wakes up much more soon. So, often I would just do my part - if he doesn't wake up the first time, not my problem. Two days ago, however, I've had enough of seeing him being so illogical. Setting his fucking clock at a time when he never wakes up, and his sleeping patterns are horrendous to say the least. Went into his room the third time, spoke my mind that I wasn't his mother. He goes apeshit crazy on me, yells in my face, points his finger at my face, smashes my chair and makes a dent on the wall. Then goes to pick up a knife to threaten to stab himself. Afterwards, running out of the house to the middle of the road. All I can say is, the next time he does this - I will not deal with his shit and he can go kill himself if he wants to. 

Yes, I lack in sympathy but I will not tolerate shit like that either. Now, we don't talk anymore and have our doors shut. I like it this way, to be honest. However, I'd like input and advice from others... My mother, another ISFJ will be coming for a visit this December. I'm worried that another shit-storm may start as it usually does.

My mother would say or do something completely illogical, stupid, and intrusive that I lose my cool. She's also very manipulative, dependent, emotionally so on her children. It is draining, and I've been on the brink of suicide several times because of that. I have not and never will threaten suicide to anyone that I love, but I'm afraid that I might let my passions get the better of me and really do kill myself, quietly but determinedly so during head-spaces like those. They guilt trip, manipulate me for having my INTP tendencies - liking my own space, solitude and distaste for illogical ideas and actions. Usually, I put on a persona to keep myself safe but she likes to dig into it and prove that I'm just an evil daughter who's just using her. At times like those, I just sink away into myself and want to die. Because she puts it in a way that I have nothing to say to defend myself etc. 

I'm 18 and two years away from the opportunity for independence, right now I'm still financially dependent on her and my relatives. On the side, I have my own private life that I have hid and never disclosed to the family. They're all religious, and our world views do not mesh very well at all. I really don't want to *whore* myself out by pretending to be a stupid child in my mother's eyes, because that is exactly what she wants. If I give it to her, I feel dead and numb. But that's how I've always been, to protect myself from her manipulation. After awhile, I really need my own space otherwise I get moody, cynical and nitpick on what she says/does which starts a violent cycle of emotional drama. Hell, I go on the computer and close my room door and she goes to open it EVERY SINGLE TIME. No matter how many times I have it shut, the only way I can block her out is by listening to music via earphones. Even so, she'd try to invade my space time and time again by ORDERING me to do chores after criticizing me. To guilt trip me, to make me feel worthless. 

Only idea I've came up with is to find work ASAP, so I can be away from her for the bulk of the time that she's here. That and having my own money will be good. 

I don't know how to express my appreciation (if any) towards them, yes I feel obliged to do so because they have been feeding and keeping me clothed for the last 18 years of my life. But that's it, I do not aspire, appreciate or like her for the most part. However, there is one idea that I've been thinking about - after finding work, take her out for a nice meal or two during her visit here. What really worries me is when I express emotion towards her, and she gets manipulative - wants more and more that I'm not comfortable to give.

I really need input and advice on how to handle ISFJs. Yes, my family is dysfunctional and not very mentally stable...


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## BradyNotTachy (Oct 24, 2012)

apathy said:


> Hi there, I'm an INTP and for as long as I can remember - could not relate to any of my family members as they are all SJs. Especially my mother and older brother who are both ISFJs. Two days ago, my brother threatened to commit suicide, twice, now for an INTP whose inferior function, Fe is their auxiliary function - it is very damaging and draining to have to deal with their shit. It wasn't hard to pull him away from the incoming cars when he stood in the middle of the road, waving his arms. If he thought that that made me want to love him, then he's got another thing coming. I have lost most of my respect for him, from what I can see - he did that for attention and as a cry for help, to get a reaction out of me because he so desperately needs it.
> 
> He's a self proclaimed mother's boy, and call me judgemental? He alternates between being a 12 year old child and a 67 year old grumpy, cynical debbie downer. But i do think it is abnormal for a 25 y o to still have his mother wake him from his sleep. Mind you, mother is overseas and has to call him via phone. Because, according to him, he isn't able to wake up. So, two days ago he asks me to do the same thing. I wasn't very happy, but agreed to do so. Now, his alarm clock can go ringing for hours and he'd rouse from sleep only hours after setting his clock. He'd just let it ring, however, when mother calls I think he wakes up much more soon. So, often I would just do my part - if he doesn't wake up the first time, not my problem. Two days ago, however, I've had enough of seeing him being so illogical. Setting his fucking clock at a time when he never wakes up, and his sleeping patterns are horrendous to say the least. Went into his room the third time, spoke my mind that I wasn't his mother. He goes apeshit crazy on me, yells in my face, points his finger at my face, smashes my chair and makes a dent on the wall. Then goes to pick up a knife to threaten to stab himself. Afterwards, running out of the house to the middle of the road. All I can say is, the next time he does this - I will not deal with his shit and he can go kill himself if he wants to.
> 
> ...


No one should have to go through that. I agree distancing yourself via finding work and hopefully becoming more financially independent would do you well. The interrelations with the family members isn't going to improve right now in my opinion from what you've shared here and you just need space to live your own life and be an 18 year old girl who is set to begin her own life soon. I am sorry to read this though, but glad you took the time to write this here for us. I wish I had more to offer you at the time here other than sympathy. Would you mind keeping me updated on this when your mum comes?


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## Spunky29 (Aug 27, 2012)

::hugs:: I'm sorry you're dealing with what you describe here. But, it sounds like you have a great head on your shoulders.

I don't know enough about ISFJs to say anything in particular about that. But, I am a pain-in-the-butt little brother myself (though, yours is older, sounds like he's playing the kid), and know that if my sister said some of the following to me, I wouldn't know how to respond! 

So, in the remaining time that you're stuck there, there are two tools I've picked up that may help when you have to deal with them, and have to talk to them, to try to turn each situation around a bit.

Maybe these will help - though some people can be difficult to manage no matter what!

1) The "No" sandwich: A technique to lessen the blow of saying "no," and make it harder for them to turn it back on you.
-----Your response consists of three parts:
-----1) What I can do for you is...
-----2) Unfortunately, I can't...
-----3) What you can do for yourself to get what you want is...

So, he says, "Sis - call me to wake me up like mommy does every day! I need it!"
You can say, "Bro - What I can do is call you a few more times when it's really important to you. Unfortunately, I do have my own things to do, this is a busy time for me, and there will be times that I can't, though I will do my best. What you can do is Google and research some of the getting up/sleeping issues you're having to find a solution so that you can get yourself up as you see fit for yourself. I want to know when I'm gone in a couple years, that you can manage on your own. I'd be interested in hearing what you come up with."

or 2) LARA - what I picked up to deal with potentially combative folks. Listen, Affirm, Respond, Add-On.

Listen - Give them ground.
Affirm - Tell them you're giving them ground.
Respond - Tell them what you think.
Add-On - Further personalize it with examples.

L - "Mom, it sounds to me like you're saying...and please correct me if I'm wrong....."
A - "I can see where you're coming from, and this can't be easy for you....."
R - "With what I understand about the situation.....and what I can do.....Please know I'm doing my best....."
A - "This situation seems to repeat itself, and I'd like to come up with a long-term solution to help make this easier for us...."


I hope that helps some. I usually find such preset responses lacking genuineness - but, I've found these two models easy to remember, use and fit to different situations while allowing myself to be honest.

After writing this, I realize, the "no" sandwich may be more appropriate for your mom and LARA your brother.


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## nakkinaama (Jun 20, 2012)

Move out


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## Kito (Jan 6, 2012)

That's not got anything to do with their ISFJ personality, they're just really dependent on each other.

I think they want you to be dependent on them, too, but you're not giving them the emotional reaction they want. So they're trying harder and harder to get it out of you, and the more you refuse, the more desperate they're getting. I think you need to calmly explain that you do care about them (even if you don't) and that you just prefer not to show it all the time. If they refuse to understand, then it's their problem and they need to sort it out for themselves.


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## Hurricane Matthew (Nov 9, 2012)

Your brother is mentally ill... time to turn him in to a mental health hospital.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Kito said:


> That's not got anything to do with their ISFJ personality, they're just really dependent on each other.
> I think they want you to be dependent on them, too, but you're not giving them the emotional reaction they want. So they're trying harder and harder to get it out of you, and the more you refuse, the more desperate they're getting. I think you need to calmly explain that you do care about them (even if you don't) and that you just prefer not to show it all the time. If they refuse to understand, then it's their problem and they need to sort it out for themselves.


^this @apathy
also, your brother is clearly a fucked up enneagram 2. that is more relevant than his MBTI type in this instance


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## EmmaR (Mar 21, 2021)

Kitagawa Megumi said:


> Hi there, I'm an INTP and for as long as I can remember - could not relate to any of my family members as they are all SJs. Especially my mother and older brother who are both ISFJs. Two days ago, my brother threatened to commit suicide, twice, now for an INTP whose inferior function, Fe is their auxiliary function - it is very damaging and draining to have to deal with their shit. It wasn't hard to pull him away from the incoming cars when he stood in the middle of the road, waving his arms. If he thought that that made me want to love him, then he's got another thing coming. I have lost most of my respect for him, from what I can see - he did that for attention and as a cry for help, to get a reaction out of me because he so desperately needs it.
> 
> He's a self proclaimed mother's boy, and call me judgemental? He alternates between being a 12 year old child and a 67 year old grumpy, cynical debbie downer. But i do think it is abnormal for a 25 y o to still have his mother wake him from his sleep. Mind you, mother is overseas and has to call him via phone. Because, according to him, he isn't able to wake up. So, two days ago he asks me to do the same thing. I wasn't very happy, but agreed to do so. Now, his alarm clock can go ringing for hours and he'd rouse from sleep only hours after setting his clock. He'd just let it ring, however, when mother calls I think he wakes up much more soon. So, often I would just do my part - if he doesn't wake up the first time, not my problem. Two days ago, however, I've had enough of seeing him being so illogical. Setting his fucking clock at a time when he never wakes up, and his sleeping patterns are horrendous to say the least. Went into his room the third time, spoke my mind that I wasn't his mother. He goes apeshit crazy on me, yells in my face, points his finger at my face, smashes my chair and makes a dent on the wall. Then goes to pick up a knife to threaten to stab himself. Afterwards, running out of the house to the middle of the road. All I can say is, the next time he does this - I will not deal with his shit and he can go kill himself if he wants to.
> 
> ...


Hello, intuitive fellow.
I am an INTJ. And ISFJs (along with ESFJs) are our worst enemies. I feel what you feel because my own mother is also an ISFJ. And what you described about your mother, fits my mother a lot. 
Years have passed by since you wrote your post. I believe you're doing better now and away from her. Good luck!

_Virtual hug from an INTJ, 5w6 Enneatype_


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