# Need a good (native) English speaker ASAP



## BeauGarcon (May 11, 2011)

I'm really confused about which sentence I should take. Basically the speaker sits in the past (*Z* Yesterday I remembered), and in the past he talks about the past (*Y *had heard), and then he talks in the past of the past (*X *had smiled).
​ X----------------Y------------Z---Present


A: Yesterday I remembered that I had heard the rumor that a woman *had smiled*.
(This is past perfect)

Or

B: Yesterday I remembered that I had heard the rumor that a woman *has smiled*.
(This is present perfect)

Or

C: Yesterday I remembered that I had heard the rumor that a woman *smiled*.
(This is past simple)

I want to know what is the most correct and most importantly why.


----------



## BeauGarcon (May 11, 2011)

Can somebody please help? :'(


----------



## searcheagle (Sep 4, 2011)

BeauGarcon said:


> I'm really confused about which sentence I should take. Basically the speaker sits in the past (*Z* Yesterday I remembered), and in the past he talks about the past (*Y *had heard), and then he talks in the past of the past (*X *had smiled).
> ​ X----------------Y------------Z---Present
> 
> 
> ...


I would say:

Yesterday, I heard a rumor that she smiled.

Or: 

I just remembered, yesterday, I heard a rumor that she smiled.

Either way, "she" is smiling at you in the past. Unless you can see her smiling "right now" it happened in the past.


----------



## Planisphere (Apr 24, 2012)

BeauGarcon said:


> A: Yesterday I remembered that I had heard the rumor that a woman *had smiled*.
> (This is past perfect)


You forgot the comma between 'Yesterday' and 'I'. And what an odd rumor to hear. The rumor itself would have been spread AFTER the woman had smiled, so yes, A would be correct in this instance.



BeauGarcon said:


> B: Yesterday I remembered that I had heard the rumor that a woman *has smiled*.
> (This is present perfect)


Verb tense doesn't match up. 'Has', 'have', and 'had' are modal verbs. They have to be taken into account just like any other verb.



BeauGarcon said:


> C: Yesterday I remembered that I had heard the rumor that a woman *smiled*.
> (This is past simple)


If you're going by chronology, you would have heard the rumor long after the woman had smiled. When we look back at a certain time in the past to tell what had happened before, we use past perfect. Past simple is used when giving a summary of the events as they occurred in order. Besides, you used 'had' in that dependent clause "that I had heard the rumor", and you need to keep the tense consistent.

The first verb is kept simple in this case, although I should ask: did you do the remembering yesterday, or did you remember the rumor today? If you remembered it today, it should be present simple and 'yesterday' should be moved elsewhere in the sentence. If you actually meant remembering something in the past, then you're right on the money with the past perfect use in both dependent clauses.


----------



## BeauGarcon (May 11, 2011)

NovaStar said:


> You forgot the comma between 'Yesterday' and 'I'. And what an odd rumor to hear. The rumor itself would have been spread AFTER the woman had smiled, so yes, A would be correct in this instance.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


YES THANK YOU!

This is what I wanted to know, um, and yeah I meant remembering yesterday. Glad to see that A was correct.


----------



## Razare (Apr 21, 2009)

It's dangerous to ask English speakers about English... from my experience unless they're English professors, they likely use English wrong.

The best English speaker and writer I've known online was a computer programmer in Spain, and Spanish was her native language.


----------



## yesiknowbut (Oct 25, 2009)

A is correct, but being a native English speaker and a pedant to boot, I know this but I do not know why. Never had to learn the rules....something about tenses agreeing I suspect, which I vaguely remember as a rule from learning latin back in the mists of time....


----------



## goastfarmer (Oct 20, 2010)

Razare said:


> It's dangerous to ask English speakers about English... from my experience unless they're English professors, they likely use English wrong.
> 
> The best English speaker and writer I've known online was a computer programmer in Spain, and Spanish was her native language.


True. When I was studying French (native English speaker here), I was told that I shouldn't take grammar advice from the average French person. Most likely, their grammar sucks. The only people who are good for grammar advice are people like professors who actually care and study formal language structure. If you want to learn the colloquial form of a language, then you should pay close attention to the average speaker. 

Also, non-native speakers who learned the language in a classroom setting or something similar are often more knowledgable of grammar because they are taught rigid grammar rules at an age when they can understand the concepts a lot easier. I mean growing up, I was often asked if a sentence of phrase "sounds right". If it didn't, then it was probably bad grammar. That is how most native speakers (at least in America) treat grammar. It should be known that things only "sound right" because of their frequent use and the mere exposure effect. Therefore, it's a pretty crappy technique to use.


----------



## Adasta (Nov 22, 2011)

saintless said:


> It should be known that things only "sound right" because of their frequent use and the mere exposure effect. Therefore, it's a pretty crappy technique to use.


Yet America's entire dialect is based on this.


----------



## goastfarmer (Oct 20, 2010)

Adasta said:


> Yet America's entire dialect is based on this.


Pretty sad, eh?

Thpugh if you have studied French, you would know they modify a lot of their language in order to ensure it flows nicely and sounds pretty. The only difference between French and English is that French has been modified in such a manner for hundreds of years. Their modifcations are part of a formal grammar structure. When Americans do it, they do it on a whim and usually not to make English sound prettier. Rather, they just do it so they can think less.


----------



## Adasta (Nov 22, 2011)

saintless said:


> Thpugh if you have studied French, you would know


Tense disagreement!

And yes, I have studied French. Tant pis pour moi.


----------



## goastfarmer (Oct 20, 2010)

Adasta said:


> Tense disagreement!
> 
> And yes, I have studied French. Tant pis pour moi.


Yeh, I know my writing has gone down since high school. Writing well only matters if you are an English major. Also, I am too lazy to check myself on online forums. 

And, so. You know. (;


----------



## searcheagle (Sep 4, 2011)

saintless said:


> True. When I was studying French (native English speaker here), I was told that I shouldn't take grammar advice from the average French person. Most likely, their grammar sucks. The only people who are good for grammar advice are people like professors who actually care and study formal language structure. If you want to learn the colloquial form of a language, then you should pay close attention to the average speaker.
> 
> Also, non-native speakers who learned the language in a classroom setting or something similar are often more knowledgable of grammar because they are taught rigid grammar rules at an age when they can understand the concepts a lot easier. I mean growing up, I was often asked if a sentence of phrase "sounds right". If it didn't, then it was probably bad grammar. That is how most native speakers (at least in America) treat grammar. It should be known that things only "sound right" because of their frequent use and the mere exposure effect. Therefore, it's a pretty crappy technique to use.


What is the purpose of language? Of grammar? 

In my opinion, language and grammar are about one thing: A system designed to clearly and efficiently share information and ideas. 

How did language come about? Did language start out with a rule book or was it formulated based on how people were already talking, based on being clear and efficient. 

Phrases like "ain't no" in English are double negative sentences which slow down the sending receiving process, because they CONFUSE the message.

Have you ever read any original, "old English" ? It is unreadable and impossible to understand. The letters aren't even the same! It was revolutionized again after the French invaded Britain, and ushered in the Norman period. Languages evolve- and it's up to the grammarians to keep pace. 

Old English - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (Old English)
Middle English - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (Middle English)


----------



## goastfarmer (Oct 20, 2010)

searcheagle said:


> What is the purpose of language? Of grammar?


I don't understand the point of this question. I was stating that if you want to learn (formal) grammar, then some people are more knowledgable than others. 

I am fully aware of the purpose of language and its fluidity.


----------



## Angelic Gardevoir (Oct 7, 2010)

Razare said:


> It's dangerous to ask English speakers about English... from my experience unless they're English professors, they likely use English wrong.
> 
> The best English speaker and writer I've known online was a computer programmer in Spain, and Spanish was her native language.


Indeed. I would have said that A and C were both correct. ^_^U


----------

