# INTJ with high Ne/Ti? I/ENTP. Advice appreciated...



## namiki (Nov 13, 2010)

Hi!

There're probably quite a number of threads on how to spot the difference between Ni/Te and Ti/Ne, and I've read a fair number... but I'm still confused on my type. I used to type INTP all the way through high school, until I started typing INTJ from about 18, and mostly cycle INTJ/P and ENTP now. Cognitive function tests don't really help, since they suggest INTJ/INTP/ENTP. Mostly, I just score really high on Ni/Ne, Ti close to the first two, and Te next. 

I'm not sure if it's related to growing up with an INTP father whom I'm really close to - and so learning to adopt his thinking style (INTJ + Ti/Ne (INTP)) or if it's confused by having a very domineering ESTJ mother who spent a lot of time trying to build Te/Si in me (INTP + Te = INTJ), or if the confusion is all me. From what I know, a person _can't _effectively be Ni/Te and Ti/Ne at the same time (unless I've interpreted the questions wrongly and am mixing up the functions)...

Anyway, any thoughts? I would love some help on this. Thank you.


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## cudibloop (Oct 11, 2012)

Do one of those survey questionare things that you can write out here.


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## namiki (Nov 13, 2010)

I realized that probably would have been more helpful. Done and thanks! 

*0. Is there anything that may affect the way you answer the questions? For example, a stressful time, mental illness, medications, special life circumstances? Other useful information includes sex, age, and current state of mind.*

Nothing in particular. Upcoming finals in a month, essays to submit, final year of university, maybe. But that's fairly standard, and I don't feel stressed -- yet! Female, 24, current state of mind... as it should be I guess - which is to say it feels 'familiar' to me, and I don't think I'm going through a shadow phase. 

*1. Click on this link: Flickr: Explore! Look at the random photo for about 30 seconds. Copy and paste it here, and write about your impression of it.*

Standing Tall | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Oh hey, mushroom! What an interesting mushroom. I love how the colours come together in the picture. I wonder what species of mushroom it is. It's almost otherworldly, the light flecks in the scene. It puts me in mind of a fairytale scene, and I can almost imagine little creatures around it. The translucence in the stem's really lovely, and it makes the top of the mushroom float, and seem even lighter than it already is, tall and spindly as it already is. I wonder why this photo seems to poignant. I suppose it's because the mushroom seems so quietly confident. The background's blurred and the colours muted, so your focus is drawn automatically to the one sharp item that stands out. At the same time, since the focus of the picture is in similar tones to the rest of the scene, it doesn't shout out 'look at me' but is quietly elegant. 

*2. You are with a group of people in a car, heading to a different town to see your favourite band/artist/musician. Suddenly, the car breaks down for an unknown reason in the middle of nowhere. What are your initial thoughts? What are your outward reactions?*

'Oh. Hahaha. How troublesome. Well, let's see...' My first reaction would be to check if the car has really broken down and needs help, or if it's a minor problem/ something that can be easily resolved (or the driver forgot to put something into gear). Meanwhile, I'd be musing about the concert and whether I really want to see it still, and entertaining thoughts of doing something different or changing track halfway and seeing what else we can do now that we're stuck in the middle of nowhere. 

Usually, when such things happen, I end up being the one taking over and calling for help/ coordinating or troubleshooting the problem... mostly because I tend to be calmer than the people around me, who will first engage in a period of freaking out/ complaining/ talking about how they knew this would happen, or that it's happened before. Depending on what's wrong with the car, I suppose we could call for repairs, and wait, or try to find an alternative method of getting to the concert.

I wouldn't be pleased about the car breaking down specifically, but I think I'd actually feel energized or excited by the problem, and I'd enjoy solving it and getting everything back on track.

*3. You somehow make it to the concert. The driver wants to go to the afterparty that was announced (and assure you they won't drink so they can drive back later). How do you feel about this party? What do you do?*

It really depends on how I'm feeling after the concert. If I'm too tired, I might sit this one out and find an alternative way back (which may not be feasible if we're in another town...) in which case I'd either go to sleep in the car and tell my friends to wake me when they're ready to go back, or just rent a room somewhere, especially if I know the driver is likely to end up sloshed and not able to drive anyone back, and that we'd end up spending an extra day in town while everyone gets over their hangovers. 

I might go to the party, although unless I find someone interesting, or something interesting happens, it seems likely that I'd have gotten bored quite quickly, in which case I'd leave. I might spend the night (especially if I have a friend or two along) doing something else - like exploring the town at night, or going for a walk/ chatting. If everyone else is still partying, I might decide on my own what I'd rather do and do that, whether it's hanging around and waiting or wandering off and going back.

*4. On the drive back, your friends are talking. A friend makes a claim that clashes with your current beliefs. What is your inward reaction? What do you outwardly say?*

It depends on what the topic is, and how strongly I feel about it. Presumably, we're talking about something I actually care about or have an opinion on, or the question wouldn't be asking for much. In which case... my first thought would be, 'Hmm. I wonder why they think that. Interesting. Perhaps there's a basis for that opinion.' and I'll ask. _If _they respond insincerely, with 'I don't know. But I just do, you know.' I'd get swiftly very irritated, and am likely to dismiss them as an idiot. If they respond with a reason or their own reasoning, I'd probably challenge them with alternatives, and see where the discussion goes. 

This has happened before, and generally I either end up not buying their reasoning, in which case I stick to my original beliefs, or I end up gaining some new insight or understanding, or a 'third possibility' is born, which is the result of me adjusting my original beliefs/ a melding of our opinions. Generally, I enjoy the feeling of the latter far more. I might also end up buying their claim, although this seems the least likely, and I'll need some 'brooding time' while I pick through their claim before I'm willing to adopt it. 

*5. What would you do if you actually saw/experienced something that clashes with your previous beliefs, experiences, and habits?*

It depends what on, again, and how convincing the experience is. Generally I'd question it, and question my beliefs, and probably at some point come to a new position depending on how the experience has affected me. Unless it hasn't. In which case I won't. 
*
6. What are some of your most important values? How did you come about determining them? How can they change?*

Truth, I suppose. Integrity - of belief and action. Modesty - believing that you can learn something from everyone around you, and that when you close your eyes to the possibility of learning something from someone else because of your own arrogance, that's when you stagnate, and when you stop growing. Passion and drive - that if you're going to do something, you should do your best in it, and when you do a slipshod job, the only one you're disappointing should be yourself and your own sense of pride in yourself and your abilities. Prejudice and discrimination, stereotyping or lack of justice/ fairness really annoys me. 

Thoughtfulness and kindness - I was probably more abrasive when I was younger and more immature! But along the way I've learnt that social niceties can matter, and that you can persuade another person of something, or deliver the same message without being nasty in the meantime. Responsibility and independence - cleaning up after your own mess and not imposing on others or encroaching inconsiderately on their space. 

I suppose it's a blend of what I read and philosophize, as well as observing people, or getting told things by people and seeing the truth in what they say. I think values and most things evolve, rather than change, incidentally. 

*7. a) What about your personality most distinguishes you from everyone else? b) If you could change one thing about you personality, what would it be? Why?*

I'm not sure. Everyone's different, aren't they? If I had to pick one trait, I suppose I would like to say that I'm a little more curious than most people I know. As for changing something, I'm not sure, again. Most traits have both a positive and negative side, so 'giving something up' means losing the positive elements of that trait too. I suppose if I could, I'd like to lose what sometimes seems like paralyzing self-doubt (because I see so many alternatives I can't put my weight behind one or the other, since I can see the merits and drawbacks to each). As for 'why' - I imagine it would be more convenient.
*
8. How do you treat hunches or gut feelings? In what situations are they most often triggered?*

It depends. Sometimes it seems as though they emerge from nowhere, but I think that's just my mind triggering them as a reaction of something I've observed, or various bits floating that have come together. Sometimes I have a feeling and I 'know' but I think that's just pattern recognition or my mind generating something from the impressions it has already gathered, or that it holds. 

(I do realize this probably is classic 'Ni', but as mentioned, I do seem to score pretty highly on that when I take cognitive tests.)

*9. a) What activities energize you most? b) What activities drain you most? Why?*

This is difficult. I get excited about many things - generally anything novel or learning, or when you feel yourself putting pieces together at almost superhuman speed. It's exhilarating. At the same time, it could be idea generation or just brainstorming 'what if's with my friends. And the more possibilities we generate, the more keyed and excited I tend to get. Sometimes it's an interesting theory or insight, and I feel charged with the need to explore and find out more. 

As for things that drain me... too much repetitive work I guess, or work that requires attending to detail or sensory things. Also, I tend to get sensory over-stimulation, and when that happens I crash. Dealing with people or conversations that require too much use of Si/Se it seems (at least from what I've observed of myself so far). 
*
10. What do you repress about your outward behavior or internal thought process when around others? Why?*

Doesn't that depend on who 'others' refers to? I suppose I tend to keep my more 'outlandish' or 'not normal' beliefs, ideas and behaviours to myself. If only because I've found that most people are uncomfortable with them. I've also learnt that sometimes, it's not worth it to challenge people on their presumptions, because they never were willing to question them to start, and they're happier not questioning those assumptions. Well, this depends on my mood actually. Sometimes I'd deliberately question, or say something to shock or make people uncomfortable, because it irritates me when I see someone accepting something unthinkingly.


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## namiki (Nov 13, 2010)

... one of my friends suggested I should be looking at INFJ instead though I'm not sure I see high-Fe in myself. I expect a known Fe-user would be better placed to advise on this though. Help please? I'm not sure if the survey below helps.

*1) What aspect of your personality made you unsure of your type?*

I mention it above but... My cognitive functions seem to tend to come out Ni/Ne/Ti, and I don't really relate to Te (at least as I understand it), though I am capable of using it where necessary. 
*
2) What do you yearn for in life? Why?*

This is a very difficult question, and very vague. To always stay curious, to always want to learn and live I guess. And to never reach a point where I'm no longer excited about living and life. And after that, to discover something or some insight that would help to improve human understanding/ improve the lives of people - empower them with the awareness and knowledge they need to discover something on their own.

*3) Think about a time where you felt like you were at your finest. Tell us what made you feel that way.*

When I'm working on some research project, or trying to understand a particular field, and when all the frustration builds up to boiling point... and then falls away when everything suddenly clicks, and I can see how each aspect connects to another, and I think 'hey, this is part of a much bigger picture; it's all linked!' and I feel my mind racing faster and faster to keep up with the new connections spiraling in my mind. 

*4) What makes you feel inferior?*

I'm not sure what you mean by inferior. I can't think of anything helpful now though.

*5) What tends to weigh on your decisions? (Do you think about people, pro-cons, how you feel about it, etc.)*

The possible actions I can take, and the consequences. I'll weigh which consequences seem the most preferable and consider the best path to achieving that end. Also the amount of effort required, and whether that end is worth it. Ultimately I'll need to feel intuitively 'comfortable' with my choice - so if it doesn't sit well inside I'm going to have trouble going through with it, though if necessary I can also persuade myself by looking at it another way/ thinking of the desired consequence and using that to inspire me to take that action instead. People seldom feature - I might take passing note of them, but they're usually not a factor.

*6) When working on a project what is normally your emphasis? Do you like to have control of the outcome?*

Creating something that suggests a possible insight, or something new. Doing my best (if I'm going to do it, I'm going to do it properly) and not just going through the motions of creating something because the assignment said so/ someone else told me to. Researching and looking at the existing pieces and seeing how they might connect or imply something more than what's obvious. As for control, how can you not control the outcome of a project that you're working on? Aren't you... not working on it then?

*7) Describe us a time where you had a lot of fun. How is your memory of it? *

I'm not sure. I don't think of 'fun' as a separate category. I always have fun, everyday - sometimes more and sometimes just a little, but I enjoy what I'm doing all the time - whether it's work, research, bantering with friends and chatting, reading etc. 

*8) When you want to learn something new, what feels more natural for you? (Are you more prone to be hands on, to theorize, to memorize, etc)*

I end up trying to look into the underlying constructs and theory behind something. Until I understand that for myself I feel as though I don't 'get' that new thing at all. I tend to be a little hesitant about engaging with my physical environment - so if it involves interacting with stuff and using my hands, I'll hang back, and even when I do touch whatever it is, I tend to carry a degree of discomfort in doing so.

*9) How organized do you to think of yourself as?*

Fairly organized, and I do have plans, but they're always shifting and always subject to change. 

*10) How do you judge new ideas? You try to understand the principles behind it to see if they make sense or do you look for information that supports it?*

Principles, and the rigor of reasoning behind it. 

*11) You find harmony by making sure everyone is doing fine and belonging to a given group or by making sure that you follow what you believe and being yourself?*

Both actually. And both, depending, also give me trouble on occasion - when they flare and I feel caught because I'm not sure what to do. Generally though, I don't think either concern is very present in my life. 

*12) Are you the kind that thinks before speaking or do you speak before thinking? Do you prefer one-on-one communication or group discussions?*

Thinks before speaking and one-on-one or small groups.

*13) Do you jump into action right away or do you like to know where are you jumping before leaping? Does action speaks more than words?*

I wait and see (actually, I tend to freeze sometimes, when quick action is required). It depends. With physical stuff I wait even longer, with taking action (e.g. if plans go haywire) I might be able to take action swiftly and immediately, solving whatever problem appeared. 

I think they're both important, but words alone unsupported by action are empty. 

*14) It's Saturday. You're at home, and your favorite show is about to start. Your friends call you for a night out. What will you do?*

It depends what friends, and how fond I am of them, as well as what they're doing, and how tired I already am. I might invite them over to join me (although that's unlikely, since if I'm already staying in, that probably means I want to watch my show alone). It's quite likely too that I'll go out with them if it's for dinner/ hanging out and it's a small group I'm close to, in which case I'll skip the show or record it. If it's a large party I'll almost definitely say no. 

*15) How do you act when you're stressed out?*

Sensory gratification - I watch shows when I wouldn't usually (I don't watch TV at all basically), I eat too much, pack and organize obsessively. I get scattered, agitated, everything's too loud, too much, too overwhelming. I snap at people and get argumentative and uncooperative. I'm sarcastic and put them down. 

*16) What makes you dislike the personalities of some people?*

Various things, many things actually. Although I usually dismiss such observations quite quickly, so it doesn't actually bother me. Two things that I react worse to are probably irresponsibility - when someone doesn't clean up after themselves, or is inconsiderate/ leaves a mess in communal places or public areas. Also when they don't take charge of their own life (how could you!) and complain and act victimised without changing their circumstance through their own effort. Also, when someone says something unthinkingly, especially when it relates to prejudiced views or stereotypes, or when they adopt a popular view without thinking it through first. Especially when they say things like 'All X (race/ group of people) are Y (negative adjective)'. 

*17) Is there anything you really like talking about with other people?*

Ideas, theories, introspecting about life and the meaning of things. The theories behind particular phenomena (why people act a certain way etc.). Free association of ideas. 
*
18) What kind of things do pay the least attention to in your life*

People around me, maybe. Which isn't to say I don't pay any attention at all, but when my resources are taxed my attention there is the first to go. 
*
19) How do your friends perceive you? What is wrong about their perception? ? What would your friends never say about your personality ?*

Mostly they're fond of me and consider me interesting and quaint but don't really 'get' me - like a fascinating creature on display - I think. But they genuinely care for me. I'm not sure. They'd never think me irresponsible or not conscientious maybe?
*
20) You got a whole day to do whatever you like. What kind of activities do you feel like doing?*

The things I like - I'll read, study whatever it is that I've been interested in lately, solve chess puzzles. I'll go to a cafe and write, take a walk and generally meander. Meet up with friends and catch up with them. 


Long I know! Again any help would be lovely!


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## DJeter (May 24, 2011)

INFJ.... I'll say why once I've looked through everything...


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## namiki (Nov 13, 2010)

DJeter said:


> INFJ.... I'll say why once I've looked through everything...


Really? Thank you! I shall wait. I know I typed a lot, so thanks for taking the time to look through it


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## DJeter (May 24, 2011)

namiki said:


> I realized that probably would have been more helpful. Done and thanks!
> 
> *0. Is there anything that may affect the way you answer the questions? For example, a stressful time, mental illness, medications, special life circumstances? Other useful information includes sex, age, and current state of mind.*
> 
> Nothing in particular. Upcoming finals in a month, essays to submit, final year of university, maybe. But that's fairly standard, and I don't feel stressed -- yet! Female, 24, current state of mind... as it should be I guess - which is to say it feels 'familiar' to me, and I don't think I'm going through a shadow phase.


Congratulations on the end run. I'm in that same place... one more semester to go... 



> *1. Click on this link: Flickr: Explore! Look at the random photo for about 30 seconds. Copy and paste it here, and write about your impression of it.*
> 
> Standing Tall | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
> 
> Oh hey, mushroom! What an interesting mushroom. I love how the colours come together in the picture. I wonder what species of mushroom it is. It's almost otherworldly, the light flecks in the scene. It puts me in mind of a fairytale scene, and I can almost imagine little creatures around it. The translucence in the stem's really lovely, and it makes the top of the mushroom float, and seem even lighter than it already is, tall and spindly as it already is. I wonder why this photo seems to poignant. I suppose it's because the mushroom seems so quietly confident. The background's blurred and the colours muted, so your focus is drawn automatically to the one sharp item that stands out. At the same time, since the focus of the picture is in similar tones to the rest of the scene, it doesn't shout out 'look at me' but is quietly elegant.


N DOM ALERT... you're definitely a perceiving dom... INJ or ENP... Your attribution of human values to everything screams F to me and more Fe than anything else... I'm thinking INFJ from this answer alone.



> *2. You are with a group of people in a car, heading to a different town to see your favourite band/artist/musician. Suddenly, the car breaks down for an unknown reason in the middle of nowhere. What are your  initial thoughts? What are your outward reactions?*
> 
> 'Oh. Hahaha. How troublesome. Well, let's see...' My first reaction would be to check if the car has really broken down and needs help, or if it's a minor problem/ something that can be easily resolved (or the driver forgot to put something into gear). Meanwhile, I'd be musing about the concert and whether I really want to see it still, and entertaining thoughts of doing something different or changing track halfway and seeing what else we can do now that we're stuck in the middle of nowhere.
> 
> ...


Ni dom again: you've very imaginative, thinking deeply over what the situation would be like. You think of yourself in terms of the group: Fe, thinking about what you can contribute.



> *4. On the drive back, your friends are talking. A friend makes a claim that clashes with your current beliefs. What is your inward reaction? What do you outwardly say?*
> 
> It depends on what the topic is, and how strongly I feel about it. Presumably, we're talking about something I actually care about or have an opinion on, or the question wouldn't be asking for much. In which case... my first thought would be, 'Hmm. I wonder why they think that. Interesting. Perhaps there's a basis for that opinion.' and I'll ask. _If _they respond insincerely, with 'I don't know. But I just do, you know.' I'd get swiftly very irritated, and am likely to dismiss them as an idiot. If they respond with a reason or their own reasoning, I'd probably challenge them with alternatives, and see where the discussion goes.
> 
> This has happened before, and generally I either end up not buying their reasoning, in which case I stick to my original beliefs, or I end up gaining some new insight or understanding, or a 'third possibility' is born, which is the result of me adjusting my original beliefs/ a melding of our opinions. Generally, I enjoy the feeling of the latter far more. I might also end up buying their claim, although this seems the least likely, and I'll need some 'brooding time' while I pick through their claim before I'm willing to adopt it.


Ni-Ti analysis...

*



6. What are some of your most important values? How did you come about determining them? How can they change?

Click to expand...

*


> Truth, I suppose. Integrity - of belief and action. Modesty - believing that you can learn something from everyone around you, and that when you close your eyes to the possibility of learning something from someone else because of your own arrogance, that's when you stagnate, and when you stop growing. Passion and drive - that if you're going to do something, you should do your best in it, and when you do a slipshod job, the only one you're disappointing should be yourself and your own sense of pride in yourself and your abilities. Prejudice and discrimination, stereotyping or lack of justice/ fairness really annoys me.
> 
> Thoughtfulness and kindness - I was probably more abrasive when I was younger and more immature! But along the way I've learnt that social niceties can matter, and that you can persuade another person of something, or deliver the same message without being nasty in the meantime. Responsibility and independence - cleaning up after your own mess and not imposing on others or encroaching inconsiderately on their space.
> 
> I suppose it's a blend of what I read and philosophize, as well as observing people, or getting told things by people and seeing the truth in what they say. I think values and most things evolve, rather than change, incidentally.


Fe... mature Fe...




> *7. a) What about your personality most distinguishes you from everyone else? b) If you could change one thing about you personality, what would it be? Why?*
> 
> I'm not sure. Everyone's different, aren't they? If I had to pick one trait, I suppose I would like to say that I'm a little more curious than most people I know. As for changing something, I'm not sure, again. Most traits have both a positive and negative side, so 'giving something up' means losing the positive elements of that trait too. I suppose if I could, I'd like to lose what sometimes seems like paralyzing self-doubt (because I see so many alternatives I can't put my weight behind one or the other, since I can see the merits and drawbacks to each). As for 'why' - I imagine it would be more convenient.


N dom
*



8. How do you treat hunches or gut feelings? In what situations are they most often triggered?

Click to expand...

*


> It depends. Sometimes it seems as though they emerge from nowhere, but I think that's just my mind triggering them as a reaction of something I've observed, or various bits floating that have come together. Sometimes I have a feeling and I 'know' but I think that's just pattern recognition or my mind generating something from the impressions it has already gathered, or that it holds.


Ni



> (I do realize this probably is classic 'Ni', but as mentioned, I do seem to score pretty highly on that when I take cognitive tests.)


Lol. I saw this after all that came to my mind was Ni...



> *9. a) What activities energize you most? b) What activities drain you most? Why?*
> 
> This is difficult. I get excited about many things - generally anything novel or learning, or when you feel yourself putting pieces together at almost superhuman speed. It's exhilarating. At the same time, it could be idea generation or just brainstorming 'what if's with my friends. And the more possibilities we generate, the more keyed and excited I tend to get. Sometimes it's an interesting theory or insight, and I feel charged with the need to explore and find out more.
> 
> As for things that drain me... too much repetitive work I guess, or work that requires attending to detail or sensory things. Also, I tend to get sensory over-stimulation, and when that happens I crash. Dealing with people or conversations that require too much use of Si/Se it seems (at least from what I've observed of myself so far).


Me too. N dom for sure...
*




10. What do you repress about your outward behavior or internal thought process when around others? Why?

Click to expand...

*


> Doesn't that depend on who 'others' refers to? I suppose I tend to keep my more 'outlandish' or 'not normal' beliefs, ideas and behaviours to myself. If only because I've found that most people are uncomfortable with them. I've also learnt that sometimes, it's not worth it to challenge people on their presumptions, because they never were willing to question them to start, and they're happier not questioning those assumptions. Well, this depends on my mood actually. Sometimes I'd deliberately question, or say something to shock or make people uncomfortable, because it irritates me when I see someone accepting something unthinkingly.


Ti

Fe-Ti 

Se


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## DJeter (May 24, 2011)

namiki said:


> Really? Thank you! I shall wait. I know I typed a lot, so thanks for taking the time to look through it


Np. I have a thing for Ni dom girls, so... Your thanks are well received...


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## namiki (Nov 13, 2010)

DJeter said:


> Np. I have a thing for Ni dom girls, so... Your thanks are well received...


Aww. But thanks nonetheless again (because it _does _take effort to go through something like that).

Congratulations on being almost done yourself too, incidentally, and all the best for the last semester. Hang in there! 

Thanks for your take on my answers to the questionnaire. N-dom (and Ni-dom) does seem given, and your analysis does make sense. Perhaps Ni-Ti could manifest as apparent Te? I think the reason why I don't relate to Fe is that most descriptions of Fe I read tend to be very group-feel oriented, and while that is important to me, in a crisis my first instinct would be to troubleshoot or try to solve the problem, instead of ensuring that everyone around me felt okay with it/ comforting people etc. 

I just realised that you're wondering about your type too on another thread. I daresay I feel as though we operate on similar (or sympathetic) wavelengths, although considering that you're possibly debating INFJ/INTP this probably isn't much help


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## DJeter (May 24, 2011)

namiki said:


> Aww. But thanks nonetheless again (because it _does _take effort to go through something like that).
> 
> Congratulations on being almost done yourself too, incidentally, and all the best for the last semester. Hang in there!
> 
> Thanks for your take on my answers to the questionnaire. N-dom (and Ni-dom) does seem given, and your analysis does make sense. Perhaps Ni-Ti could manifest as apparent Te? I think the reason why I don't relate to Fe is that most descriptions of Fe I read tend to be very group-feel oriented, and while that is important to me, in a crisis my first instinct would be to troubleshoot or try to solve the problem, instead of ensuring that everyone around me felt okay with it/ comforting people etc.


INFJs are often much more thinking than people think. The best type description for INFJs I've read is the following:



> INFJ
> 
> by A.J. Drenth / The Personality Junkie
> 
> ...





> I just realised that you're wondering about your type too on another thread. I daresay I feel as though we operate on similar (or sympathetic) wavelengths, although considering that you're possibly debating INFJ/INTP this probably isn't much help



Eh... thanks for your thoughts; I think you're right. I'm probably an INFJ, I'm just going through type crisis mode because of some personal issues...


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## ManWithoutHats (Jun 2, 2012)

I haven't read anything after the first post yet, but it is supposedly much more common for INTPs to mistype as INTJs than vice-versa. INTPs may be raised to be very organized and efficient which, while they're still Ti-Ne, makes them more likely to test as 'J' on the tests (since they are largely based on behaviors, rather than the underlying functions). INTJs though tend to have a natural inclination towards organized efficiency that is rarely obscured by upbringing. Not that it's impossible though. I'll try to actually read this thread later– I've got to get some sleep!


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## namiki (Nov 13, 2010)

DJeter said:


> INFJs are often much more thinking than people think. The best type description for INFJs I've read is the following:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice description. Thanks! Yeah, one thing I've noticed - and for all I know it's true of myself too - many of us who appear on the 'what's my type' forum tend to be going through something (and I don't mean earth-shattering trauma necessarily, it could be stress or personal issues, sometimes leading to a flare of shadow/ inferior functions) which is probably what leads to the questioning one's identity and type. 

One thing I'm not sure about with regard to myself - assuming I'm an Ni dom - is whether I'm an INTJ with developed Fi or an INFJ as suggested. I'm not sure how to spot the difference between the two, frankly. The other thing being that Fe and Fe-values feel to me like a 'learnt function' and I'd always got the impression that if I were a type that used Fe naturally, I shouldn't have to learn it, and I'd have access to it even when I was younger... (Then there's the part on me somehow typing INTP for quite a number of my teenage years (which means having access to Ti before I had access to Fe?) and I was fairly rebellious and argumentative then too, which seems unlikely in an INFJ!)


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## namiki (Nov 13, 2010)

ManWithoutHats said:


> I haven't read anything after the first post yet, but it is supposedly much more common for INTPs to mistype as INTJs than vice-versa. INTPs may be raised to be very organized and efficient which, while they're still Ti-Ne, makes them more likely to test as 'J' on the tests (since they are largely based on behaviors, rather than the underlying functions). INTJs though tend to have a natural inclination towards organized efficiency that is rarely obscured by upbringing. Not that it's impossible though. I'll try to actually read this thread later– I've got to get some sleep!


Oh yup. I've read that too - that INTJs tend to be more confident of their type, and that since society generally _tends _to impose J-type values, it's more common for INTPs to mistype as INTJs (particularly if they answer based on how they are at work etc.) I tried going to the functions to figure it out, but ended up merely rather confused. 

Well if you do come back to read the thread after your sleep I shall be most grateful  since as an INTP yourself, it seems likely that you might be well placed to spot whether Ti-Ne exists in my answers/ the way I think.


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## DJeter (May 24, 2011)

namiki said:


> Nice description. Thanks! Yeah, one thing I've noticed - and for all I know it's true of myself too - many of us who appear on the 'what's my type' forum tend to be going through something (and I don't mean earth-shattering trauma necessarily, it could be stress or personal issues, sometimes leading to a flare of shadow/ inferior functions) which is probably what leads to the questioning one's identity and type.
> 
> One thing I'm not sure about with regard to myself - assuming I'm an Ni dom - is whether I'm an INTJ with developed Fi or an INFJ as suggested. I'm not sure how to spot the difference between the two, frankly. The other thing being that Fe and Fe-values feel to me like a 'learnt function' and I'd always got the impression that if I were a type that used Fe naturally, I shouldn't have to learn it, and I'd have access to it even when I was younger... (Then there's the part on me somehow typing INTP for quite a number of my teenage years (which means having access to Ti before I had access to Fe?) and I was fairly rebellious and argumentative then too, which seems unlikely in an INFJ!)


Keen observation of people, my INFJ friend 

INTJs come from their own personal values system. It sounds more like you relied on the environment to develop your feeling function. Though, being an introvert, definitely occurred mostly in your mind. I've definitely developed my Fe late, I feel too. So I can relate to what you're saying. I first tested as an INTJ, then I used to consistently test as an INTP... But learning about the functions made me pretty sure I use Fe higher than I thought... I had the negative stereotypes about Fs from all the thinking forums, and overcoming that made me a more confident feeler.


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## namiki (Nov 13, 2010)

DJeter said:


> Keen observation of people, my INFJ friend
> 
> INTJs come from their own personal values system. It sounds more like you relied on the environment to develop your feeling function. Though, being an introvert, definitely occurred mostly in your mind. I've definitely developed my Fe late, I feel too. So I can relate to what you're saying. I first tested as an INTJ, then I used to consistently test as an INTP... But learning about the functions made me pretty sure I use Fe higher than I thought... I had the negative stereotypes about Fs from all the thinking forums, and overcoming that made me a more confident feeler.


I don't know if it's just my own preferences that leads to me conclude that (external crisis ---> internal soul searching/ who am I?) but yup! It does seem everyone does this to some extent. Which makes sense - when things aren't going well, I guess you're likely to feel shaken - whether internally which prompts 'who am I' inquiries, or externally ('who am I in relation to others/ the 'other'/ the 'environment'). What's interesting is that most of us don't _know _that we're operating in our shadow - so although we're behaving out-of-character we think that we're in-charge and on top of things. I suppose we're aware up to a point - which is when we're still in control, but if we're sufficiently stressed, we descend so deeply into our 'grip' behaviour that we think it's how we've always been. 

Thanks for sharing about your own discovery of Fe  Interesting that you used to type INTJ/P. It seems strange, since even as children, it makes sense that we'd need an auxiliary to function in the external environment (being introverted)... but how is it that Fe (or awareness of Fe maybe?) comes in that late then. Hmm. 

The other thing that makes me think possibly not INFJ is that I don't relate very well to the INFJ forum - whether in terms of tone/ expression, or the topics. Or the NF forums in general, actually. And I feel a better 'fit' from the INTP/J forums, although I'm not sure if that's related to having grown up around an INTP dad and having many INTP/J friends (simply familiarity or fluency with the language then, on my part).


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## DJeter (May 24, 2011)

namiki said:


> I don't know if it's just my own preferences that leads to me conclude that (external crisis ---> internal soul searching/ who am I?) but yup! It does seem everyone does this to some extent. Which makes sense - when things aren't going well, I guess you're likely to feel shaken - whether internally which prompts 'who am I' inquiries, or externally ('who am I in relation to others/ the 'other'/ the 'environment'). What's interesting is that most of us don't _know _that we're operating in our shadow - so although we're behaving out-of-character we think that we're in-charge and on top of things. I suppose we're aware up to a point - which is when we're still in control, but if we're sufficiently stressed, we descend so deeply into our 'grip' behaviour that we think it's how we've always been.
> 
> Thanks for sharing about your own discovery of Fe  Interesting that you used to type INTJ/P. It seems strange, since even as children, it makes sense that we'd need an auxiliary to function in the external environment (being introverted)... but how is it that Fe (or awareness of Fe maybe?) comes in that late then. Hmm.
> 
> The other thing that makes me think possibly not INFJ is that I don't relate very well to the INFJ forum - whether in terms of tone/ expression, or the topics. Or the NF forums in general, actually. And I feel a better 'fit' from the INTP/J forums, although I'm not sure if that's related to having grown up around an INTP dad and having many INTP/J friends (simply familiarity or fluency with the language then, on my part).


I don't hang around those NF forums much. They're too feel-y for me. A lot of self-motivation and self-help going on there. Even the INTP/INTJ ones are similar in their self-aggrandizement... I usually stick to the guess the type and what's my type forums; it's more engaging for me. So I empathize with the not fitting in with the NF forums. I am socially isolated though, for an IFJ... Regardless don't feel that you're alone as an INFJ who's more clinical than personal. I think academic INFJs really are more NT like than many NTs... and probably the most NT like of all the NFs... Also, remember that many SFs type themselves as NFs and so they change the environment of the subtype forums... especially ISFPs mistyping as INFPs...


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## FlightsOfFancy (Dec 30, 2012)

namiki said:


> Nice description. Thanks! Yeah, one thing I've noticed - and for all I know it's true of myself too - many of us who appear on the 'what's my type' forum tend to be going through something (and I don't mean earth-shattering trauma necessarily, it could be stress or personal issues, sometimes leading to a flare of shadow/ inferior functions) which is probably what leads to the questioning one's identity and type.
> 
> One thing I'm not sure about with regard to myself - assuming *I'm an Ni dom - is whether I'm an INTJ with developed Fi or an INFJ as suggested. I'm not sure how to spot the difference between the two, frankly. *The other thing being that Fe and Fe-values feel to me like a 'learnt function' and I'd always got the impression that if I were a type that used Fe naturally, I shouldn't have to learn it, and I'd have access to it even when I was younger... (Then there's the part on me somehow typing INTP for quite a number of my teenage years (which means having access to Ti before I had access to Fe?) and I was fairly rebellious and argumentative then too, which seems unlikely in an INFJ!)


I kind of struggled with the same thing; I think Fi-embellished INTJs seem more psychologically distant because this function is introverted. I've cared a great deal about people/what they were saying to receive the "You're really aloof you know that?". Like :dry:. It's not very obvious to most because it's internal. 

When I think Fi-embellished INTJ, I think a caricature would be Mr. Feeny from "Boy meets world". He's very obvious Te (in a posh British/American hybrid way lol), but he's very emotionally attune. It just doesn't "look" like it. It's all in the content of what he's saying.

INFJs with Ti-embellished seem to be more affable, even if they don't give much of a shit for what you're saying/feeling (I have harder time faking this). It's more of an automatic response to the emotional atmosphere. They also seem more lackadasical in the INTP sense, but they are NOT ambivalent when it comes to social justice. To me, Lisa Simpson from "The Simpsons" seems like a cariacture of Ti-embellished INFJ...


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## namiki (Nov 13, 2010)

DJeter said:


> I don't hang around those NF forums much. They're too feel-y for me. A lot of self-motivation and self-help going on there. Even the INTP/INTJ ones are similar in their self-aggrandizement... I usually stick to the guess the type and what's my type forums; it's more engaging for me. So I empathize with the not fitting in with the NF forums. I am socially isolated though, for an IFJ... Regardless don't feel that you're alone as an INFJ who's more clinical than personal. I think academic INFJs really are more NT like than many NTs... and probably the most NT like of all the NFs... Also, remember that many SFs type themselves as NFs and so they change the environment of the subtype forums... especially ISFPs mistyping as INFPs...


Oh yes. The INTP/J forums can seem (not always, but they certainly _can_) almost a caricature of the type sometimes. Although I do relate to the detached/objective nature of those forums better than I do the emotional expression and sharing of feelings (and mutual encouragement) in the NF forums (which was what made me think 'not INFJ' with regard to myself every time).


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## namiki (Nov 13, 2010)

FlightsOfFancy said:


> I kind of struggled with the same thing; I think Fi-embellished INTJs seem more psychologically distant because this function is introverted. I've cared a great deal about people/what they were saying to receive the "You're really aloof you know that?". Like :dry:. It's not very obvious to most because it's internal.
> 
> When I think Fi-embellished INTJ, I think a caricature would be Mr. Feeny from "Boy meets world". He's very obvious Te (in a posh British/American hybrid way lol), but he's very emotionally attune. It just doesn't "look" like it. It's all in the content of what he's saying.
> 
> INFJs with Ti-embellished seem to be more affable, even if they don't give much of a shit for what you're saying/feeling (I have harder time faking this). It's more of an automatic response to the emotional atmosphere. They also seem more lackadasical in the INTP sense, but they are NOT ambivalent when it comes to social justice. To me, Lisa Simpson from "The Simpsons" seems like a cariacture of Ti-embellished INFJ...


I see! Thanks for the examples. Hmm. I think I begin to see what you mean... 

As someone who went through a similar debate on their type (if you have the time and don't mind) do you happen to get a feel for one or the other from my answer(s) to the questionnaire? As much as it will come down to me and what I think my own type might be, it seems that someone else might 'see' things that I'm missing as a result of being too much a part of my own personality (and thus losing the objectivity required to analyze it).


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## FlightsOfFancy (Dec 30, 2012)

namiki said:


> I see! Thanks for the examples. Hmm. I think I begin to see what you mean...
> 
> As someone who went through a similar debate on their type (if you have the time and don't mind) do you happen to get a feel for one or the other from my answer(s) to the questionnaire? As much as it will come down to me and what I think my own type might be, it seems that someone else might 'see' things that I'm missing as a result of being too much a part of my own personality (and thus losing the objectivity required to analyze it).


If you read through my type post and yours there's a different air to them--yours is much more visceral. Mine seems 'detatched'. We both seem to hinge on emotionalism and logic (hence why we made the threads), but I would say that your post seems more of logic through emotion, whereas mine seems vice versa. That isn't to say which of us is more emotional or more logical--but it does seemingly establish which mode we elect to extrovert. 

More concretely, your responses are more conversational and warm. There'd be little deviation from some of your answers and casual speaking; whereas, mine come off as though I am trying to get a point across rather than be concerned about the atmosphere generated by it. 

I would say INFJ.

Oh and don't try to abide too closely to stereotypes. INTJs= robots; INFJs= bleeding hearts. 

Those are mainly based off of which function they extrovert most comfortably with people, but has little to do with the inner workings/totality.


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## namiki (Nov 13, 2010)

FlightsOfFancy said:


> If you read through my type post and yours there's a different air to them--yours is much more visceral. Mine seems 'detatched'. We both seem to hinge on emotionalism and logic (hence why we made the threads), but I would say that your post seems more of logic through emotion, whereas mine seems vice versa. That isn't to say which of us is more emotional or more logical--but it does seemingly establish which mode we elect to extrovert.
> 
> More concretely, your responses are more conversational and warm. There'd be little deviation from some of your answers and casual speaking; whereas, mine come off as though I am trying to get a point across rather than be concerned about the atmosphere generated by it.
> 
> ...


Oh yes. I do see the obvious difference in communication style, and what you mean by Fi through Te for you. Interesting. This makes it clearer. Thank you!


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## ManWithoutHats (Jun 2, 2012)

Okay so far I have only read the first two surveys and not the discussions that followed but here is what I've been thinking thus far.

For the first survey...
#2 has an Ne vibe in the way you consider the situation. You're willingness to consider new possibilities in the new circumstances is characteristic of Ne but your 2nd paragraph has a more INTJ vibe in the readiness to take charge– though it also sounds like the way an ENTP might handle the situation. The INTP who is often ready and willing to take the coordinating/leadership role is unlikely, but not impossible. Your last sentence is very Ne.

#3 Sleeping in the car while everyone parties sounds like something I might do if I was tired, but there's also a possible Ni quality to the 2nd paragraph.

#4 Sounds very Ti-Ne, though not necessarily in that order. I (and other INTPs (and probably ENTPs)) feel like there's a degree of truth to every perspective, but alternatives which also hold a degree of truth often come to mind whenever someone asserts one view. I often feel a desire to understand where they're coming from and to challenge it with ideas or information that they may not have considered and, if it seems they're arrogantly asserting an opinion they haven't considered, to draw attention to the falsity of that perspective.

#5 Ti-Ne, seemingly in that order: the need to incorporate new information into a coherent and logically valid understanding.

#6 INTP. We tend to be truth fetishists and rather modest, if I dare say so myself. Also the view that everyone has something to offer and that each opinion deserves consideration, no matter who from, is much more evident of Ti-Fe rather than Te-Fi. Passion and drive might be more often associated with Ni-Se, but when it comes to anything I really care about I tend to be highly perfectionistic– other things, not so much. This seems true of Ji dome.

Your second paragraph sounds like inferior or tertiary Fe.

#7 "I suppose if I could, I'd like to lose what sometimes seems like paralyzing self-doubt (because I see so many alternatives I can't put my weight behind one or the other, since I can see the merits and drawbacks to each)." screams Ne and sounds more like an INTP than an ENTP.

#8 is indeed characteristic of Ni, but the way you've described conceiving of multiple alternatives that shoot off in different directions is much more Ne versus the clarity and singleness of vision associated with Ni. Ne is also characterized by sudden realizations seemingly from nowhere, but they tend to be of a very different nature than Ni. Ne also is more inductive, generating associations among an infinite range of things, whereas Ni is more deductive, reducing multiple considerations into a single vision.

#9 is filled to the brim with Ne. Si is especially associated with repetitive work, more so than Se which has an 'ADHD' quality to it similar to Ne.

#10 shows Si (considering past experience to develop your view). That 'trolling' sort of attitude is classic inferior or tertiary Fe– I do that to sometimes when I'm tired or lose my temper. Usually regret it.

From the first questionnaire I would pretty much rule out INTJ. Te-Fi and Ni-Se seem much less likely than their alternatives. You are obviously prefer intuition. I feel strongly towards xNTP at this point but I see that you are considering INFJ too…

For the 2nd questionnaire:
#3 is associated with Ni, but also could be Ti-Ne.

#5 also is strongly characteristic of Ni.

#6 suggest Ti over Te. Ne or Ni– one could see either.

#7 is characteristic of awesomeness. Also maybe Ni.

#8 could be Ni. Could also be Ti-Ne.

#10 Ti.

#11 maybe inferior/tertiary Fe.

#15 is strongly inferior Se– but its also a list of common human reactions to stress. I know anyone would associate this with inferior Se, but I do all of these things when I'm stressed.

#16 much of this reminds me of my ENFP brother who seems to feel no ill will towards anyone except when they leave a mess or are irresponsible (usually consistently). Unfortunately for him, he lives with me (we share an apartment) and I tend to forget that food packaging still exists after the food is removed, that scattering books, papers, our CD/Movie/Vinyl collection or basically anything and everything that we own across the place entails a responsibility to clean it up, etc. Anyway, sounds like an inferior Si/Se thing maybe. Not very characteristic of INTPs– the concept of a mess doesn't register much with me; its all just stuff anyway, who cares where it is. Of course, I'm sure this can be effected by upbringing.

#17 sounds more Ne-Ti rather than Ni-Fe to me, but not by much.

#18 this is common from INTPs

#19 sounds INFJ

Initially I was set on xNTP. Now I'm unsure between that and INFJ, though INTJ seems to me all but entirely ruled out. You are certainly Ti-Fe over Te-Fi. Your first survey seemed definitely Ne, but the second one is much less clear. I look forward to reading DJeter's response and considering this further but I've got to take a break from this for now.


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## namiki (Nov 13, 2010)

ManWithoutHats said:


> Okay so far I have only read the first two surveys and not the discussions that followed but here is what I've been thinking thus far.
> 
> For the first survey...
> #2 has an Ne vibe in the way you consider the situation. You're willingness to consider new possibilities in the new circumstances is characteristic of Ne but your 2nd paragraph has a more INTJ vibe in the readiness to take charge– though it also sounds like the way an ENTP might handle the situation. The INTP who is often ready and willing to take the coordinating/leadership role is unlikely, but not impossible. Your last sentence is very Ne.
> ...


Oh wow, thanks for going through both surveys and typing out your thoughts. I really, really do appreciate it. 

(Tangential, but since this might be helpful to how I think: I really do mean it when I say thanks for your time. I think I start from the premise that humans generally (and by default) are self or ego driven. I don't mean that they're 'selfish/ self-absorbed etc.' (all value-laden words with negative connotations) but rather that their first concern tends to be themselves, or the world in orientation to themselves (I have an argument for how this covers both introverts and extraverts). Thus, when someone gives you of their time (whether it's to spend time with you, or to spend time (or thought) on you - such as picking out a present, listening to you or responding to you) it means that for the moment, 'you' are more than or equal to their 'self', and drawing again from the premise that 'humans are ego driven' this is something that means a lot, and should be treasured.)

^ Hmm. I suppose that might count as Fe, which does definitely tie in with the Ti-Fe over Te-Fi that you've concluded, although that doesn't tell me where Fe fits in. (It seems to be subconscious - i.e. I don't know that I feel that way/ hold that value, and it's only when I introspect that it comes to me, that this is the reasoning that supports it. But there's probably a subconscious sense of values that guides me - which I'd always thought was Fi expressed through Te.)


I see what you mean by quite a lot of Ne too, and that's what trips me up. 

(My interactions with people seem to include Ni/Ne (I think): i.e. If everyone was looking at a cube: 'But what if it was a sphere/ pyramid etc. instead?' and 'But what if the cube was not a cube' or 'But what if we got other items and considered them instead of the cube or considered using them _and _the cube' and 'But what if we shaved corners off the cube so it was no longer a cube, or tinkered with its architecture so it looked like a cube but wasn't a cube inside'. The cube being a metaphor for stuff or ideas, that is.)


Thanks again though. And I need to look at my answers and your advice and consider how they fit and what it means.


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## namiki (Nov 13, 2010)

Other things that do trip me up being that I think I thrive on conflict and challenges. I have an INFP sister and I can see how conflict distresses her extremely, but my take on it is very different - I'd rather 'win' than compromise, and I'm comfortable working in an environment that's very antagonistic (something my friends (including my INTP friends amusingly) have pointed out with some wonder), and I'm actually more comfortable in such an environment than one that is too harmonious or peaceful - in which case the overflow of 'let's all just get along' puts me on edge. Whereas the more agitated the person I'm debating gets, the more energized I tend to get - as well as 'delighting' in their loss of control since that also means that they're losing while I'm winning. Which isn't to say I walk around picking fights... generally. Unless I'm in the mood to troll (and I've learnt to clamp down on this urge with age) or if someone says something really 'stupid' (ignoring the debate that tends to emerge around this word). 

Also - if someone asks for my opinion on something, they will get it (though age again has taught me how to cushion my words), but I think if someone asks a question, that means that they're ready to hear the answer. Which isn't to say that they _need _to accept my opinion (and it actually irritates me when they do, without thinking it over first themselves), but that it's one perspective offered which they can consider. 

There's also the part where even now, when I think I'm being diplomatic, my ESTJ mother (who uses Te) thinks I'm being socially inappropriate or offensive (though conversely, some of my friends when asked list 'diplomatic' as one of my traits). Hmm. Another thing being that I'm unlikely to cater to social rituals (dinners/ parties/ ceremonies) if it doesn't make 'sense' to my internal set of values - e.g. 'I don't get it, why do I have to attend a ceremony - it's not like I'll win the award any less/ graduate any less by my absence. Although I would attend if I can see other benefits to it - such as the ability to make contacts (for future career stuff) and such.

I'm not sure what this indicates though.


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

I sat the whole time wondering if it was TiNe that I saw or NiTe.

For a while, I thought this part that was quoted bellow was Ti reasoning that was analyzing logical inconsistencies, but then I realized that they are Fe users and this is a question about values and not logical reasoning. The fact that you'd get annoyed at the lack of proof sounds more like Te.

Truth is tho, it sounds like you are exaggerating things/not taking it seriously.
The answers to questions 1 and the beginning of question 2 are weird.



> 4. On the drive back, your friends are talking. A friend makes a claim that clashes with your current beliefs. What is your inward reaction? What do you outwardly say?
> 
> It depends on what the topic is, and how strongly I feel about it. Presumably, we're talking about something I actually care about or have an opinion on, or the question wouldn't be asking for much. In which case... my first thought would be, 'Hmm. I wonder why they think that. Interesting. Perhaps there's a basis for that opinion.' and I'll ask. If they respond insincerely, with 'I don't know. But I just do, you know.' I'd get swiftly very irritated, and am likely to dismiss them as an idiot. If they respond with a reason or their own reasoning, I'd probably challenge them with alternatives, and see where the discussion goes.
> 
> ...


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## namiki (Nov 13, 2010)

Acerbusvenator said:


> I sat the whole time wondering if it was TiNe that I saw or NiTe.
> 
> For a while, I thought this part that was quoted bellow was Ti reasoning that was analyzing logical inconsistencies, but then I realized that they are Fe users and this is a question about values and not logical reasoning. The fact that you'd get annoyed at the lack of proof sounds more like Te.
> 
> ...


Thanks! Hmm. So you see possible TiNe or NeTi but also possible Te? The entire set of those functions - including Ni - I relate to at various points, which is why it's difficult for me to figure out my type.

Interesting! Not taking it seriously meaning...? This probably says something about my type too. Hmm. I'm an enneagram 358 (3w4) and I'm guessing this might be related to what you mean.


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## DJeter (May 24, 2011)

ManWithoutHats said:


> Okay so far I have only read the first two surveys and not the discussions that followed but here is what I've been thinking thus far.
> 
> For the first survey...
> #2 has an Ne vibe in the way you consider the situation. You're willingness to consider new possibilities in the new circumstances is characteristic of Ne but your 2nd paragraph has a more INTJ vibe in the readiness to take charge– though it also sounds like the way an ENTP might handle the situation. The INTP who is often ready and willing to take the coordinating/leadership role is unlikely, but not impossible. Your last sentence is very Ne.


I actually find this whole post, if I had to pick one function, more Te than anything. I think it's really just Je in general though. Wanting to make external judgments is energizing. This just suggests J more than anything. I see you're thinking Ne because she listed possibilities, but if you look solely at the energy focus, it's on Je. The fact that she's taking into account her role in the community suggests Fe to me more than Te.



> #3 Sleeping in the car while everyone parties sounds like something I might do if I was tired, but there's also a possible Ni quality to the 2nd paragraph.


I think this was just an introverted answer. No real function association that I would make.



> #4 Sounds very Ti-Ne, though not necessarily in that order. I (and other INTPs (and probably ENTPs)) feel like there's a degree of truth to every perspective, but alternatives which also hold a degree of truth often come to mind whenever someone asserts one view. I often feel a desire to understand where they're coming from and to challenge it with ideas or information that they may not have considered and, if it seems they're arrogantly asserting an opinion they haven't considered, to draw attention to the falsity of that perspective.


This is straight Ti-Ni... Synthesizing information is what Ni does. Ne takes information and makes/see possibilities. She's trying to arrive at an internal judgment (Ti) but is doing so via high Fe (she wants to understand the why, and would do so diplomatically) using Se to take in the information from her interlocutor. She's comparing the ideas to a solid Ni framework, not leapfrogging on the new information to new possibilities per se.



> #5 Ti-Ne, seemingly in that order: the need to incorporate new information into a coherent and logically valid understanding.


This answer is vaguely P dom meaning Ni or Ne dom... but not really enough information to make any strong claims. Remember that typing people isn't about: would an INTP say this? It's about: what function is being exhibited here?



> #6 INTP. We tend to be truth fetishists and rather modest, if I dare say so myself. Also the view that everyone has something to offer and that each opinion deserves consideration, no matter who from, is much more evident of Ti-Fe rather than Te-Fi. Passion and drive might be more often associated with Ni-Se, but when it comes to anything I really care about I tend to be highly perfectionistic– other things, not so much. This seems true of Ji dome.


INTPs don't have a monopoly on truth fetishes. And again, it's not, would an INTP say this?, it's: what function is here? And really the function I'm seeing is perception. So intuition. Not really any defining function at play here.



> Your second paragraph sounds like inferior or tertiary Fe.


More like auxiliary or tertiary Fe. Inferior Fe doesn't develop until one's 30s and 40s...



> #7 "I suppose if I could, I'd like to lose what sometimes seems like paralyzing self-doubt (because I see so many alternatives I can't put my weight behind one or the other, since I can see the merits and drawbacks to each)." screams Ne and sounds more like an INTP than an ENTP.


I'll admit this seems like Ne. But, again, it's more indicative of just being a P dom. And to me, this is explained in that, with introverted judgment at the tertiary level, it's something less comfortable for an INJ than NTPs... NTPs would have more confidence in internal judgments, especially INTPs.



> #8 is indeed characteristic of Ni, but the way you've described conceiving of multiple alternatives that shoot off in different directions is much more Ne versus the clarity and singleness of vision associated with Ni. Ne is also characterized by sudden realizations seemingly from nowhere, but they tend to be of a very different nature than Ni. Ne also is more inductive, generating associations among an infinite range of things, whereas Ni is more deductive, reducing multiple considerations into a single vision.


NTPs more often know where their intuitions come from. Ni doms, much less so. I see this as straight Ni...



> #9 is filled to the brim with Ne. Si is especially associated with repetitive work, more so than Se which has an 'ADHD' quality to it similar to Ne.


I'd like for her to explore this more. The first paragraph is straight N... more likely Ne... but I'm not convinced it is Ne... Often Ni doms do explore possibilities as well. I remember a friend of mine who couldn't stand this quality about me, not seeing the point in fruitless intellectualism. Your point on Si is correct.



> #10 shows Si (considering past experience to develop your view). That 'trolling' sort of attitude is classic inferior or tertiary Fe– I do that to sometimes when I'm tired or lose my temper. Usually regret it.


I used to troll as well (and sometimes troll Libertarians), so I wouldn't say low Fe has a monopoly on trolling either. And I'm surprised at your ignoring the clearly prominent Fe on display here. Modifying opinions in order to conform is classic high Fe behavior. (I realize that it's not modifying opinions per se, but at least the community perception of one's opinions.) Low Fe users don't care to do this (as much).



> For the 2nd questionnaire:
> #3 is associated with Ni, but also could be Ti-Ne.


So Ni... come on... 



> #6 suggest Ti over Te. Ne or Ni– one could see either.


Strong J qualities here. And some Ni... Not seeing much Ne or Ti...



> #7 is characteristic of awesomeness. Also maybe Ni.


Fe ("bantering with friends")



> #8 could be Ni. Could also be Ti-Ne.


Strongly Ti... and Ni... needing subjective analysis to arrive at the conclusion which is an Ni framework... Ne is likely to see the possibilities and move on...



> #10 Ti.


Ti subject to some N function...



> #11 maybe inferior/tertiary Fe.


Could be any Fe user imo... less likely a Fe dom though...



> #15 is strongly inferior Se– but its also a list of common human reactions to stress. I know anyone would associate this with inferior Se, but I do all of these things when I'm stressed.


Strong inferior Se is right... INFJ all the way...



> #16 much of this reminds me of my ENFP brother who seems to feel no ill will towards anyone except when they leave a mess or are irresponsible (usually consistently). Unfortunately for him, he lives with me (we share an apartment) and I tend to forget that food packaging still exists after the food is removed, that scattering books, papers, our CD/Movie/Vinyl collection or basically anything and everything that we own across the place entails a responsibility to clean it up, etc. Anyway, sounds like an inferior Si/Se thing maybe. Not very characteristic of INTPs– the concept of a mess doesn't register much with me; its all just stuff anyway, who cares where it is. Of course, I'm sure this can be effected by upbringing.


Could be any type really...



> #17 sounds more Ne-Ti rather than Ni-Fe to me, but not by much.


Ni-Fe



> #18 this is common from INTPs


I'd need to explore what she means exactly by this. Per se it could be inferior Fe, but since she already showed she's most likely an N dom... this seems peculiar...



> #19 sounds INFJ


Yeah. Could be any NF type...


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## namiki (Nov 13, 2010)

DJeter said:


> I actually find this whole post, if I had to pick one function, more Te than anything. I think it's really just Je in general though. Wanting to make external judgments is energizing. This just suggests J more than anything. I see you're thinking Ne because she listed possibilities, but if you look solely at the energy focus, it's on Je. The fact that she's taking into account her role in the community suggests Fe to me more than Te.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Huge thanks for analyzing all of it and offering your perspective!

On elaborating on some of my answers... 



> *9. a) What activities energize you most? b) What activities drain you most? Why?*
> 
> This is difficult. I get excited about many things - generally anything novel or learning, or when you feel yourself putting pieces together at almost superhuman speed. It's exhilarating. At the same time, it could be idea generation or just brainstorming 'what if's with my friends. And the more possibilities we generate, the more keyed and excited I tend to get. Sometimes it's an interesting theory or insight, and I feel charged with the need to explore and find out more.


^ Just to add to this, another thing that energizes me would be having a vision of something in the future that I would like to fulfill. I'm not sure what inspires such thoughts. I imagine it's in reaction to something I've been subconsciously reflecting on, or something I've observed, but on occasion I'll feel a strong compulsion or certainty about a goal that I would like to achieve, or a policy that I would like to implement. At the same time that the thought 'clicks', all the steps that I need to take to achieve that goal also fall into place, and the conviction of this plan and my plan for how I'm going to achieve it make me feel very charged. As well as fine-tuning the plan and making it fit into the 'bigger picture' of other things I'd like to achieve. 

Also when I happen to spot inefficiency in a system - and this is both 'present' (things around me now) and future (more abstract policy plans) - working out what change to implement, or how to fine-tune the system to achieve the perfect system/ maximum efficiency excites me. At the same time, I think I'd get bored if I _did _achieve my perfect plan, and it's having something I can improve that actually attracts my enthusiasm. 

At the same time though, what I said previously holds true too - so when I come across new knowledge I'd not encountered before, or a new insight, or the potential for acquiring new knowledge, I find myself getting increasingly hyped up and enthused. The other thing being when I'm discussing something with someone, and we end up bouncing ideas off each other, and the theory that we're working on gets increasingly complicated and coherent, and I feel as though we're creating new insights into a particular topic. 



> As for things that drain me... too much repetitive work I guess, or work that requires attending to detail or sensory things. Also, I tend to get sensory over-stimulation, and when that happens I crash. Dealing with people or conversations that require too much use of Si/Se it seems (at least from what I've observed of myself so far).


^ 
Having to deal with very mundane work (i.e. repetitive data entry type work, or physical work - say waitressing or working at a bakery, which I've did a bit for fun because I was curious as to what it'd be like. I found it very difficult to stay focused in my environment though, and even though I wasn't doing anything very 'difficult' I ended up very drained from the effort required to stay 'in' my environment when there wasn't sufficient to challenge my mind (it was things like ringing items up, washing up, sorting trays)). 

Dealing with people sometimes (simply an introvert thing perhaps?). I don't mind when the conversation is intriguing, but when it's exchanging pleasantries or talking about things like the weather/ what someone did I find my mind wandering, and I get bored. If I'm forced to stay present - such as during formal occasions or social occasions - I get both very agitated and jumpy (I want to leave) and drained (very tired and lethargic). 



> *18) What kind of things do pay the least attention to in your life*
> 
> People around me, maybe. Which isn't to say I don't pay any attention at all, but when my resources are taxed my attention there is the first to go.


^
I'm very bad at keeping in touch with people when they're not present in my life. I might think fondly of them from time to time, but I don't usually initiate contact, and once we've graduated/ are no longer in the same space, we tend to drift apart, and it takes a lot of effort for me to pull myself out of my head or remember to keep in touch or arrange something. It's something I'm trying to improve, actually. 

As for the rest of it, people tend to be present but not usually a concern. So I'm the sort who walks into a classroom without saying hi to anyone, because... I'm not sure why actually. It seems a pointless ritual. So if I walk into the kitchen in the flat I'm sharing with some other students, I'd usually ignore them and not greet them unless there was a particular conversation I wanted to start, because it seemed superfluous to say hello for the sake of saying hello. 

I actually upset a flat mate of mine - ESFJ - a few months ago, because every time she saw me (almost everyday) she'd go 'Hello! How was your day?' in the exact same tone. I managed to endure it and the relevant small talk for a few weeks, after which I tried to hint that I wasn't interested by being very terse. She kept at it though, and I eventually snapped 'Why do you ask 'how was your day in the same tone every time you see me, and what do you expect me to say anyway? Fine. Normal. How was yours. Is there a point to this exchange?' to which she went '... Are you okay? What's wrong? D:' and I went 'I'm fine. I'm just saying that your penchant for asking how my day was every time you see me is entirely _pointless_.' 

I wasn't even in a bad mood that particular day, but snapped because her constant badgering had been irritating me for awhile, when I didn't see a point in the exchange - and I felt it was effort wasted when neither of us were getting anything from it. Though we get along fine now (I'm guessing that she assumed I was upset about something else, so after 2 weeks of startling and going wide-eyed in my presence after that it was okay, although she's now more subdued in my presence and no longer asks how my day was, which suits me fine, since that was what I wanted from her in the first place). 

What I meant though, was even for people I care about, when I'm preoccupied with work, attention to them and remaining cordial with them (usually I can see the benefits of it, and as I've grown older I can also see how harmony can be... pleasant) usually flies out the window, and I get very abrupt. When I'm not otherwise stressed out (or mentally busy) though I do enjoy interacting with people (to some extent, since I get tired at some point) and I do enjoy hearing what they think and getting to know their thoughts. I've also been told by friends that I'm sincere or sweet though, so I'm not sure what that means with regard to how I relate to the people around me. Ironically however, very close friends would not use the same adjective - but would use sarcastic or stubborn etc.

As for other things - 'stuff' maybe (I had an argument with my mother when I was younger about the need for a bed - I didn't see the point of it when it was taking up space in my room, and I tried to point out that I could sleep just as well on the floor or on a roll-up mattress, since that would fulfill its function. That didn't go down too well.) I actually tend to get agitated/ uncomfortable when I feel too cluttered or surrounded with objects, which I'm guessing might be inferior-Se. At the same time, there're periods where I let things pile up around me/ in a mess and not notice - or I'll keep stepping around the same pile of papers until I forget that it's there... until I go into a whirlwind clean-up because being surrounded by too many objects is distracting and makes me feel very uncomfortable.


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## DJeter (May 24, 2011)

namiki said:


> Huge thanks for analyzing all of it and offering your perspective!
> 
> On elaborating on some of my answers...
> 
> ...


Ni is a visionary function. I think this shows definite Ni dom ness. 



> Also when I happen to spot inefficiency in a system - and this is both 'present' (things around me now) and future (more abstract policy plans) - working out what change to implement, or how to fine-tune the system to achieve the perfect system/ maximum efficiency excites me. At the same time, I think I'd get bored if I _did _achieve my perfect plan, and it's having something I can improve that actually attracts my enthusiasm.


Ni upon realizing a goal can picture a better one. I think it's the nature of things. Ni is vision fed by Se (reality), upon realization vision expands.




> At the same time though, what I said previously holds true too - so when I come across new knowledge I'd not encountered before, or a new insight, or the potential for acquiring new knowledge, I find myself getting increasingly hyped up and enthused. The other thing being when I'm discussing something with someone, and we end up bouncing ideas off each other, and the theory that we're working on gets increasingly complicated and coherent, and I feel as though we're creating new insights into a particular topic.


N domness...





> ^
> Having to deal with very mundane work (i.e. repetitive data entry type work, or physical work - say waitressing or working at a bakery, which I've did a bit for fun because I was curious as to what it'd be like. I found it very difficult to stay focused in my environment though, and even though I wasn't doing anything very 'difficult' I ended up very drained from the effort required to stay 'in' my environment when there wasn't sufficient to challenge my mind (it was things like ringing items up, washing up, sorting trays)).


I worked as a dishwasher... it was challenging, and I wasn't good, but I found it satisfying... Waiting though would cause me awesome stress... I feel you here...



> Dealing with people sometimes (simply an introvert thing perhaps?). I don't mind when the conversation is intriguing, but when it's exchanging pleasantries or talking about things like the weather/ what someone did I find my mind wandering, and I get bored. If I'm forced to stay present - such as during formal occasions or social occasions - I get both very agitated and jumpy (I want to leave) and drained (very tired and lethargic).


My mind wonders all the time in conversation. I have good instincts though of when to say "mmhmm" "that sucks" and the rest... even though I'm not sure what I'm responding too. It sometimes leads to awkward "can you repeat yourself, please?", but not often... lol




> ^
> I'm very bad at keeping in touch with people when they're not present in my life. I might think fondly of them from time to time, but I don't usually initiate contact, and once we've graduated/ are no longer in the same space, we tend to drift apart, and it takes a lot of effort for me to pull myself out of my head or remember to keep in touch or arrange something. It's something I'm trying to improve, actually.


Typical INFJ thing imo... people need to contact us in order to stay in contact...



> As for the rest of it, people tend to be present but not usually a concern. So I'm the sort who walks into a classroom without saying hi to anyone, because... I'm not sure why actually. It seems a pointless ritual. So if I walk into the kitchen in the flat I'm sharing with some other students, I'd usually ignore them and not greet them unless there was a particular conversation I wanted to start, because it seemed superfluous to say hello for the sake of saying hello.


I think this has to do with upbringing...



> I actually upset a flat mate of mine - ESFJ - a few months ago, because every time she saw me (almost everyday) she'd go 'Hello! How was your day?' in the exact same tone. I managed to endure it and the relevant small talk for a few weeks, after which I tried to hint that I wasn't interested by being very terse. She kept at it though, and I eventually snapped 'Why do you ask 'how was your day in the same tone every time you see me, and what do you expect me to say anyway? Fine. Normal. How was yours. Is there a point to this exchange?' to which she went '... Are you okay? What's wrong? D:' and I went 'I'm fine. I'm just saying that your penchant for asking how my day was every time you see me is entirely _pointless_.'


Sounds like unhealthy Fe... Fe isn't always rainbows and hugs...



> I wasn't even in a bad mood that particular day, but snapped because her constant badgering had been irritating me for awhile, when I didn't see a point in the exchange - and I felt it was effort wasted when neither of us were getting anything from it. Though we get along fine now (I'm guessing that she assumed I was upset about something else, so after 2 weeks of startling and going wide-eyed in my presence after that it was okay, although she's now more subdued in my presence and no longer asks how my day was, which suits me fine, since that was what I wanted from her in the first place).


 Si is a weakness for Ni doms... we don't understand it at all...



> What I meant though, was even for people I care about, when I'm preoccupied with work, attention to them and remaining cordial with them (usually I can see the benefits of it, and as I've grown older I can also see how harmony can be... pleasant) usually flies out the window, and I get very abrupt. When I'm not otherwise stressed out (or mentally busy) though I do enjoy interacting with people (to some extent, since I get tired at some point) and I do enjoy hearing what they think and getting to know their thoughts. I've also been told by friends that I'm sincere or sweet though, so I'm not sure what that means with regard to how I relate to the people around me. Ironically however, very close friends would not use the same adjective - but would use sarcastic or stubborn etc.


My dad thinks of me as a thinker. My whole family probably would if they had a basic understanding of MBTI...



> As for other things - 'stuff' maybe (I had an argument with my mother when I was younger about the need for a bed - I didn't see the point of it when it was taking up space in my room, and I tried to point out that I could sleep just as well on the floor or on a roll-up mattress, since that would fulfill its function. That didn't go down too well.) I actually tend to get agitated/ uncomfortable when I feel too cluttered or surrounded with objects, which I'm guessing might be inferior-Se. At the same time, there're periods where I let things pile up around me/ in a mess and not notice - or I'll keep stepping around the same pile of papers until I forget that it's there... until I go into a whirlwind clean-up because being surrounded by too many objects is distracting and makes me feel very uncomfortable.


You're right. I see this as inferior Se... Simone Weil, an INFJ, was very ascetic, as was Plato, INFJ... I think INJs are either over-consumptive or the complete opposite... or they express the extremes in different areas of their lives...


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