# Esfp and ese lol!



## JDurwich (Jan 15, 2013)

Hey guys, I was just checking out this Socionics stuff, seems REALLY interesting. Anyway... I'm an ESFP in Moyars-Briggz and yet I seem to be ESE or ESFj LOLWHUT? in Socionics.HOW CAN THIS BE?? Am I like schizo and am BOTH Perceeving AND Rational???? :O


----------



## Boolean11 (Jun 11, 2012)

JDurwich said:


> Hey guys, I was just checking out this Socionics stuff, seems REALLY interesting. Anyway... I'm an ESFP in Moyars-Briggz and yet I seem to be ESE or ESFj LOLWHUT? in Socionics.HOW CAN THIS BE?? Am I like schizo and am BOTH Perceeving AND Rational???? :O


Of the two types what made you pick ESFj over ESFp? Was it the description pointing to ESFj being the more positive type?


----------



## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

JDurwich said:


> Hey guys, I was just checking out this Socionics stuff, seems REALLY interesting. Anyway... I'm an ESFP in Moyars-Briggz and yet I seem to be ESE or ESFj LOLWHUT? in Socionics.HOW CAN THIS BE?? Am I like schizo and am BOTH Perceeving AND Rational???? :O


So let me get this straight - you know enough about these models to ask how you can be "both perceiving and _rational_," and yet you have not reconciled the fact that mbti and socionics are not in fact the same thing? There is a very simple answer here, yet something tells me that you already know it, and you're just looking for any excuse to start random socionics threads.


----------



## Figure (Jun 22, 2011)

JDurwich said:


> Hey guys, I was just checking out this Socionics stuff, seems REALLY interesting. Anyway... I'm an ESFP in Moyars-Briggz and yet I seem to be ESE or ESFj LOLWHUT? in Socionics.HOW CAN THIS BE?? Am I like schizo and am BOTH Perceeving AND Rational???? :O


Well, I'm an ILI, so that means I'll either love you or absolutely detest you, if we're playing stereotypes. 

(smirks)


----------



## JDurwich (Jan 15, 2013)

Boolean11 said:


> Of the two types what made you pick ESFj over ESFp? Was it the description pointing to ESFj being the more positive description?


ESFj seemed MORE me... like the whole EXPRESSION OF EMOTIONS thing LOL ESFp didn't seem like the ESFP I know at all, too PUNCHY and not fun.


----------



## JDurwich (Jan 15, 2013)

Promethea said:


> So let me get this straight - you know enough about these models to ask how you can be "both perceiving and _rational_," and yet you have not reconciled the fact that mbti and socionics are not in fact the same thing? There is a very simple answer here, yet something tells me that you already know it, and you're just looking for any excuse to start random socionics threads.


Well, I did a bit of Resurch and they said that j is Rational, yet looks like Judging. I dunno LOL Why Rational and not Judging is other question I wanna ask.


----------



## Boolean11 (Jun 11, 2012)

JDurwich said:


> ESFj seemed MORE me... like the whole EXPRESSION OF EMOTIONS thing LOL ESFp didn't seem like the ESFP I know at all, too PUNCHY and not fun.


That is exactly the problem I have with those quadra value, they make cognitively gama types look miserable. Hence you could tell that when merging the cognitive elements with the outward values/behaviour predictions, things are inconsistent. The more cognitive side leans towards Jungian functions and they'll tell you that you are a percieving irrational type, however the descriptions throws your type all over the place. 

The power/agreession (not fun, enjoyment, pleasure???) Se stuff is doubtful and so is Fi which is mistakenly defined the hatred exstablishing a positive emotional atmosphere for yourself and others. The problem is that the description was written by misarable NTs who had a hostile approach to emotions, hence that plagued the qudra value and Information metabolisms; or mostly likely wrong translations since when you try to reconvert and rationalize you see the nuences in the language. In socionics, similarly cognitively I am INTp but I seem to value "Fe" and "Si" contradictory since I'm not a "miserable" person and I do care about pleasure (the functions I shun). 

Check out this thread, its either you take the more temperaments are more important route or the inconsistence surface values, as determining type. 
http://personalitycafe.com/socionics-forum/131723-typing-quadra-values.html


----------



## Boolean11 (Jun 11, 2012)

JDurwich said:


> Well, I did a bit of Resurch and they said that j is Rational, yet looks like Judging. I dunno LOL Why Rational and not Judging is other question I wanna ask.


The cognitive side is irreconciable with the "quadra values" and "informational metabolism" (the socionics function description on popular sites) value parts of the theory. Cognitively you percieve information about the world fact as it is given to you, just hording information and then once you feel like you have enough you'll resort to judging as you pick a framework "Fi" to sort your objective Se data. That makes you an "Extroverted Static Concrete" type in socionics ESFp, however according to projected values (the description), the theory breaks and that makes you an ESFj. 

Either you conclude that you are both ESFp (cognitive) and ESFj (persona values expression) or than somebits of socionics online have to be ignored due to contradictions. Either way you've screwed up the theory and it would be not your fault but the author.


----------



## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

@Boolean11, I don't think alpha and beta qaudra somehow make gamma and delta "miserable". I prefer more low-key social interaction and that's what "serious" implies, where relationships and feelings are inferred to than referred to. It doesn't mean gamma and delta cannot laugh or do not enjoy a good joke, but our type of jokes tend to differ compared to alpha and beta jokes. 

As for gamma also being negativist, I often see an astute ironic seriousness surrounding gamma type but it doesn't mean that seriousness cannot be "funny". Te is "work is fun". The fun is just not openly expressed but more internal. You know I'm having a good time because I'm still around and I didn't leave, even though externally I may appear bored as hell. Gamma is more like that good internal joke that never ends. @FacelessBeauty is a perfect example XD 

Personally, I view alpha and beta ways of fun more as oppressive and manipulative so thus negative anyway, so I am not sure why it should concern you either or why you see alpha or beta interaction styles as somehow more desirable as implied since you think they make gamma and delta look "miserable"?


----------



## Boolean11 (Jun 11, 2012)

LeaT said:


> @_Boolean11_, I don't think alpha and beta qaudra somehow make gamma and delta "miserable". I prefer more low-key social interaction and that's what "serious" implies, where relationships and feelings are inferred to than referred to. It doesn't mean gamma and delta cannot laugh or do not enjoy a good joke, but our type of jokes tend to differ compared to alpha and beta jokes.
> 
> As for gamma also being negativist, I often see an astute ironic seriousness surrounding gamma type but it doesn't mean that seriousness cannot be "funny". Te is "work is fun". The fun is just not openly expressed but more internal. You know I'm having a good time because I'm still around and I didn't leave, even though externally I may appear bored as hell. Gamma is more like that good internal joke that never ends. @_FacelessBeauty_ is a perfect example XD
> 
> Personally, I view alpha and beta ways of fun more as oppressive and manipulative so thus negative anyway, so I am not sure why it should concern you either or why you see alpha or beta interaction styles as somehow more desirable as implied since you think they make gamma and delta look "miserable"?


Perception is subjective but when comparing the two alpha and beta look a lot more positive and I can't deny it. The problem there is the duality to being both "serious" and "merry", that is a part of Reinn's problems I eliminate the dichotomies in my interpretation of the theory. I can be both emotionally expressive and manipulative following group values, preserving the emotional liveliness... practically confirming to the "merry" values, yet also be low key, rigid, judgmental, holding grudges, closed off being openly emotionally segregative causing divisions splitting a group prioritizing internal wants (contradicting Fe group) being "serious". I guess that makes sense with @_FacelessBeauty_ since she doesn't have the contradictory "merry" values. 

I tried to confront @_aestrivex_ over this and his motto is that the interpretations and descriptions are cast in stone for the values. Apparently the typee is at fault if they can't fit hence the keenness to contort people into one of the quadras or IM. @_itsme45_ points out that the serious of contradictions make some people ultimately untypable without distorting the theory. <<this another drift off>> 

My problem is reconciling my duality between both my merry and serious side hence I see the absent "Fe" traits as conflicting with my world view. Yet at the same time "Fe" exclusively is lacking the core "Fi" bits existing in myself, a short extract of those I've described above. My "Fe" bits criticize "Fi" and my "Fi" bits mutually criticize "Fe" bits.


----------



## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Boolean11 said:


> Perception is subjective but when comparing the two alpha and beta look a lot more positive and I can't deny it. The problem there is the duality to being both "serious" and "merry", that is a part of Reinn's I eliminate the dichotomies in my interpretation of the theory. I can be both emotionally expressive and manipulative following, preserving the emotional liveliness... practically confirming to the "merry" values, yet also be low key, rigid, judgmental, holding grudges, closed off being openly emotionally segregative causing divisions splitting a group prioritizing internal wants (Fe attends to the group) being "serious". I guess that makes sense @_FacelessBeauty_ since she doesn't have the contradictory "merry" values.
> 
> I tried to confront @_aestrivex_ over this and his motto is that the interpretations and descriptions are cast in stone for the values. Apparently the typee is at fault if they can't fit hence the keenness to contort people into one of the quadras or IM. @_itsme45_ points out that the serious of contradictions make some people ultimately untypable without distorting the theory. <<this another drift off>>
> 
> My problem is reconciling my duality between both my merry and serious side hence I see the absent "Fe" traits as conflicting with my world view. Yet at the same time "Fe" exclusively is lacking the core "Fi" bits existing in myself, a short extract of those I've described above. My "Fe" bits criticize "Fi" and my "Fi" bits mutually criticize "Fe" bits.


Eh, did you consider that your F is not differentiated?

Also, most people can attend to either behavior from time to time obviously. If I'm invited over to a party, of course I'll try to be a bit cheery than I usually am as to not ruin the party atmosphere, but unless the party itself kind of "settles down" and takes on a more serious tone, I'm likely to leave or just sit in a corner and not really participate because it's too draining to bother after a while. 

This is why I for example prefer going out to a pub with some friends with music but not too loud so we can still hear each other talk rather than going to a dance club for example, because I like discussing various subjects or listen to other people discuss and that feels more meaningful to me overall than dancing, for example.


----------



## Boolean11 (Jun 11, 2012)

LeaT said:


> Eh, did you consider that your F is not differentiated?
> 
> Also, most people can attend to either behavior from time to time obviously. If I'm invited over to a party, of course I'll try to be a bit cheery than I usually am as to not ruin the party atmosphere, but unless the party itself kind of "settles down" and takes on a more serious tone, I'm likely to leave or just sit in a corner and not really participate because it's too draining to bother after a while.
> 
> This is why I for example prefer going out to a pub with some friends with music but not too loud so we can still hear each other talk rather than going to a dance club for example, because I like discussing various subjects or listen to other people discuss and that feels more meaningful to me overall than dancing, for example.


Yes I considered and it puzzled me, but that is the part where my cognitive "Se" functioning affects how I sense the world. When collecting Sensing data, I'm a static sensor type seeing things at face value just collecting information as it is. The concrete data about my nature is the objective data, it is a point I can't ignore or even doubt, hence my Ji reasoning can notice the inconsistencies the framework has in trying to class me between Fi and Fe as stated by the description. The framework for the F dichotomy fails to categorize the concrete "Se" data about my nature, hence the conclusion is that it is at fault.

Its unlike dynamic sensing, "Si", which makes sense of concrete phenomena by ascribing a framework to the sensing data itself, so they are left with "Je" judgement to mold their details on to reiterating the process till they find a satisfactory framework.


----------



## JDurwich (Jan 15, 2013)

Boolean11 said:


> That is exactly the problem I have with those quadra value, they make cognitively gama types look miserable. Hence you could tell that when merging the cognitive elements with the outward values/behaviour predictions, things are inconsistent. The more cognitive side leans towards Jungian functions and they'll tell you that you are a percieving irrational type, however the descriptions throws your type all over the place. The power/agreession (not fun, enjoyment, pleasure???) Se stuff is doubtful and so is Fi which is mistakenly defined the hatred exstablishing a positive emotional atmosphere for yourself and others. The problem is that the description was written by misarable NTs who had a hostile approach to emotions, hence that plagued the qudra value and Information metabolisms; or mostly likely wrong translations since when you try to reconvert ration you see the nuences in the language. It makes socionics, similarly cognitively I am INTp but I seem to value "Fe" and "Si" contradictory since I'm not a miserable person and I do care about pleasure (the functions I shun). Check out this thread, its either you take the more temperaments are more important or the inconsistence surface values, as determining type. http://personalitycafe.com/socionics-forum/131723-typing-quadra-values.html


 @Boolean11 GEE THANKS!!! I think that makes sense... so I'm different when cognitive to how I am now?


----------



## Helios (May 30, 2012)

Interesting thread. @LeaT and @Boolean11 what makes you think I'm gamma quadra? I'm just curious as to why you both think it's a perfect fit, although I do think that gamma quadra seems appropriate as far as type goes. xD


----------



## Boolean11 (Jun 11, 2012)

FacelessBeauty said:


> Interesting thread. @_LeaT_ and @_Boolean11_ what makes you think I'm gamma quadra? I'm just curious as to why you both think it's a perfect fit, although I do think that gamma quadra seems appropriate as far as type goes. xD


Well compared to me you are unlikely to express yourself passionately and dominantly in real life as I haven't really felt convinced you can (as part of your natural personality). Your feeling is more withdrawn though expressed, it is unlike Fe expression which would be more...bummer. _I guess it is just a gut feeling I don't think I can rationalize properly at the moment._Fe is just a bit more out there even when it is withdrawn.


----------



## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

FacelessBeauty said:


> Interesting thread. @_LeaT_ and @_Boolean11_ what makes you think I'm gamma quadra? I'm just curious as to why you both think it's a perfect fit, although I do think that gamma quadra seems appropriate as far as type goes. xD


While perhaps a bit more light-hearted than other gamma types that come to mind, you have that subtle layer of irony that is more in lieu wth gamma humor and interaction style. And you're not a delta, and I know for a fact that you're democratic so that only leaves you with alpha and gamma, and alpha you're not so.


----------



## Boolean11 (Jun 11, 2012)

@FacelessBeauty

This is a snippet of my results from the first MBTI test I took from profiling for success, via my university coursework:







I was ashamed to instinctively admit that I was an introvert as I understood the failure/drawbacks to that side of my personality. As a result I have a very developed extroverted side. At the same time I felt that "very clear" for introversion was the truth but it betrayed the hard work I had to do in order to escape my goard. 

The reason I scored 0% sensing, perceiving and feeling was because I had to pick from two opposing choices (extroversion was where I was dishonest through not picking the very clear option).


----------



## Sol_ (Jan 8, 2013)

JDurwich said:


> I'm an ESFP in Mayers-Briggs and yet I seem to be ESE or ESFj LOLWHUT? in Socionics.HOW CAN THIS BE?


If you are ESFP in MBT, then you are ESFP in Socionics. Both typologies have compatible preferences while these 4 letters mean only them.


----------



## nudgemepapi (Sep 27, 2021)

JDurwich said:


> Hey guys, I was just checking out this Socionics stuff, seems REALLY interesting. Anyway... I'm an ESFP in Moyars-Briggz and yet I seem to be ESE or ESFj LOLWHUT? in Socionics.HOW CAN THIS BE?? Am I like schizo and am BOTH Perceeving AND Rational???? :O


why do you type like that


----------



## Schizoid (Jan 31, 2015)

If you're an ESFP, then you're one who oozes lots of Fe, lol. Your writing style is very Fe. I can see you as mbti ESFJ and socionics ESE. 

And speaking of ESFPs, the real ESFPs aren't that expressive, they are Fi-valuers and they tend to be emotionally stoic and you don't see their texts being littered with emojis and caps lock everywhere.


----------

