# NF: How do relationships work with antisocial NT's?



## freeeekyyy (Feb 16, 2010)

Anyway, I like NFs because they understand people. People need to be understood, especially NTs who don't understand people at all, including themselves. I think pretty much every woman I've ever had any interest in was an NF of some sort.


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## silverlined (Jul 8, 2009)

Repus said:


> It's no secret that NF's and NT's tend to hook up with one another. I believe Keirsey even said it's the most common pairing.
> 
> Now theres a huge contrast in the two types. With NF's being extremely people oriented, and NTs on the completely other side of the spectrum to a point of being almost antisocial.
> 
> How does this work in relationships? What do NFs think of this and how do you deal with it?


I'm sometimes drawn to NTs but I do have trouble with the antisocial/cynical side of some NTs. I experience it as a sharp contrast. To me, people (and ideas) are practically the meaning of life and so it's a sharp contrast when people see others as means to an end and don't really consider feelings. I suppose any type can do this but I did notice it in my INTJ friend who has a very utilitarian view of the world of people, whereas I was more focused on connecting. In fact, he didn't understand me when I wanted to connect and chat for the sake of connecting; he thought I wanted something from him. I guess what bothered me the most was when he viewed other people sort of like pawns, just means to an end.

I haven't figured out a solution to this conflict, other than trying to understand it and respect that we have different perspectives here. (and at times I find that hard because my view about connecting with people is very personal and almost sacred to me.)

For the record, I have better luck with NF/NF relationships and NF/SP relationships. I'm not totally ruling out NTs though. Maybe ENTPs are a better fit for me than INTJ or maybe even a different INTJ.


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## NeedsNewNameNow (Dec 1, 2009)

silverlined said:


> I'm sometimes drawn to NTs but I do have trouble with the antisocial/cynical side of some NTs. I experience it as a sharp contrast. To me, people (and ideas) are practically the meaning of life and so it's a sharp contrast when people see others as means to an end and don't really consider feelings. I suppose any type can do this but I did notice it in my INTJ friend who has a very utilitarian view of the world of people, whereas I was more focused on connecting. In fact, he didn't understand me when I wanted to connect and chat for the sake of connecting; he thought I wanted something from him. I guess what bothered me the most was when he viewed other people sort of like pawns, just means to an end.
> 
> I haven't figured out a solution to this conflict, other than trying to understand it and respect that we have different perspectives here. (and at times I find that hard because my view about connecting with people is very personal and almost sacred to me.)
> .


I'm INTP and I don't view connecting with people like this at all. I don't connect with everybody, but the people I do, it's because I like them and want to get to know them.


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## silverlined (Jul 8, 2009)

unleashthehounds said:


> I'm INTP and I don't view connecting with people like this at all. I don't connect with everybody, but the people I do, it's because I like them and want to get to know them.



Ah, it was probably this specific person. Now that I think about it, I've known several INTPs and ENTPs who viewed connecting like you and I do for the most part, or at least didn't see people as means to an end.


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## freeeekyyy (Feb 16, 2010)

silverlined said:


> I'm sometimes drawn to NTs but I do have trouble with the antisocial/cynical side of some NTs. I experience it as a sharp contrast. To me, people (and ideas) are practically the meaning of life and so it's a sharp contrast when people see others as means to an end and don't really consider feelings. I suppose any type can do this but I did notice it in my INTJ friend who has a very utilitarian view of the world of people, whereas I was more focused on connecting. In fact, he didn't understand me when I wanted to connect and chat for the sake of connecting; he thought I wanted something from him. I guess what bothered me the most was when he viewed other people sort of like pawns, just means to an end.
> 
> I haven't figured out a solution to this conflict, other than trying to understand it and respect that we have different perspectives here. (and at times I find that hard because my view about connecting with people is very personal and almost sacred to me.)
> 
> For the record, I have better luck with NF/NF relationships and NF/SP relationships. I'm not totally ruling out NTs though. Maybe ENTPs are a better fit for me than INTJ or maybe even a different INTJ.


Have you considered INTPs? INTJs and INFJs are kind of opposite. INTPs and ENTPs share your use of Fe and Ti. INTJs are like INFPs more, in that they use Te and Fi. Oh wait, I see that you mentioned ENTPs. You already know then. Nevermind.


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## entperson (Sep 14, 2009)

freeeekyyy said:


> Sounds to me more like an ISTJ. We have certain similarities, but we do not lack imagination and are generally willing to break rules if it makes sense. Remember, our dominant function is Ni, which is all about creativity and imaginitive thought. It's just that it's directed in a more mechanical/logical orientation than it would be for, say, an INFJ.


Oh the internet ruins all my fun. I was being facetious, I wasn't actually calling INTJs boring :tongue:


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## silverlined (Jul 8, 2009)

freeeekyyy said:


> Have you considered INTPs? INTJs and INFJs are kind of opposite. INTPs and ENTPs share your use of Fe and Ti. INTJs are like INFPs more, in that they use Te and Fi. Oh wait, I see that you mentioned ENTPs. You already know then. Nevermind.


Mmhmm. Just I as I was making my first post, I was thinking it was a Te-Fe clash


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## freeeekyyy (Feb 16, 2010)

entperson said:


> Oh the internet ruins all my fun. I was being facetious, I wasn't actually calling INTJs boring :tongue:


I see. One thing we INTJs do have is an inability to catch things like that that should be obvious.


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## Sweetish (Dec 17, 2009)

There are certain things my NF has to deal with in me which directly conflict with his ways of life, yet why are we such good friends? We provide harmony to the other, balance, protection when one or the other feels vulnerable or uncertain about something. We've created a lot of work for ourselves by choosing to be with each other, because we are so fundamentally different, but I honestly feel that the rewards are worth the effort. I've learned so very much from him- about myself, about how to relate to other people, about how just the littlest amount of care can turn a person's whole perception of the world around.

In regard to not being imaginative/creative: Ouch. Just, ouch. When it's my turn to make generalizations about you, I could say your smile is annoying- which says a lot more about me than it does the person I'm saying something about. Triple check your perceptions. Of the six+ billion people in the world, what percent of them who are NTs have you actually met and gotten to know really well?

I am, however, yes, very difficult to persuade to break rules. I see some rules as meant to be broken, but it's not like such things come up in every day conversation.

I can appreciate the sudden whim of doing something crazy, in fact I used to do it quite often just to feel alive- I had to deal with depression from about age 8 onward in my life, so anything I could do to go crazy or get out of my skin without hurting myself (I did/do not like physical pain, though I can endure it quite well when forced), I would do when no one was looking. I basically pursued what I guess could be called the natural drug of euphoria or elation in activities which were relatively low risk for any harm, danger or legal consequence. Yes, I can be spontaneous, but again certain criteria have to be met for such freedom to be fully enjoyable for me. Yes, I can be emotional, I AM emotional- who I choose to allow to see that and share that with me is given quite a privilege. Those people who do not see it have not yet seen *me*. The NF I married got to see *me* from the very first day that we knew anything about each other, and as a result I've felt quite a lot of unexpected happiness.


This is from the thread, "NTs and the concept of romance":



Grim said:


> I liked doing the traditional thing for anniversaries... first year is paper. She was all about Lord of the Rings so I got her the Arwen pendant... I ordered it "late" on purpose and handed her the invoice for it rolled up like a scroll tied off with a length of lace on the actual day of. She had to wait a week for it. For the flowers and fruit year I bought a lot of citrus fruits and strawberries and took a very large heart-shaped platter and made a single large flower on it complete with a long green bean stem, and basil leaves... with chocolate syrup for "dirt". We stood in the kitchen and fed it to each other. For iron and candy year (our last, we were separated then too) I visited an equestrian club and got an old used horse shoe--took it to a bench grinder and cleaned/polished it up, then painted it. I mailed that to her with a box of her favorite chocolates... which of course melted...
> 
> I enjoy stuff like this... the mental challenge of coming up with something special, and unique... learning what makes my partner melt and finding a personal way to express it. I put a lot of thought and energy into it. My feeling functions are also two of my three weakest. It doesn't bother to step outside my comfort zone and try new things... because I see myself as limitless, always expanding/growing.
> 
> ...












The expectations we as individuals bring to any relationship can often be that relationship's downfall, and this usually comes about because the expectations have not been verbalized and adequately discussed. There is no pre-defined way that a person "has to be", in fact I believe a person must embrace their self, who they are, to truly be happy- everything that they are they should explore, understand and hopefully accept- all within the confines of a safe environment. If a person doesn't like something about their self which they want to change then they have the complete power to change that. This is one major emotional roadblock that always comes up between my NF and myself which is the need to enjoy what we like about ourselves and praise it alongside the need to acknowledge our less favorable character traits in order to work toward improving our "self" to attain the image we personally desire to see of ourselves and impart to others. Essentially, the concept that on a personal level we should become and be who we each, individually, want to be- at the same time, be able to accept ourselves and each other as who we are.


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## thehigher (Apr 20, 2009)

Repus said:


> thanks for the input thehigher. I would like to hear more NFs thoughts here


Heyyy now. You dodged my question


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## The Proof (Aug 5, 2009)

I know of one pair INFP girl and INTP boy, he's a complete bonehead, understands virtually nothing about people and how they work and the girl seems focused on finding out about this personality type stuff, I talk to her from time to time, I think the INTP boy is her second option

INFPs seem weak, she deals with all his bullshit, whereas I would've walked away 10 times over


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## Repus (Feb 10, 2010)

I cant explain it thehigher. Its like being shown another side of life. Its like being surrounded by aliens and then finding someone the same species as you. LOL maybe thats a bit extreme, but you get the point.


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## thehigher (Apr 20, 2009)

Repus said:


> I cant explain it thehigher. Its like being shown another side of life. Its like being surrounded by aliens and then finding someone the same species as you. LOL maybe thats a bit extreme, but you get the point.


That works. But... you feel like we are the same species as you? Don't you feel that way about NT's too?


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## Repus (Feb 10, 2010)

I dont recall meeting many female NTs to be honest. The few that I suspect may have been NTs.... I never really got to know them well or have any kind of close relatinship with. 

I think it would be annoying to be with another ENT. INT might work tho.


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## Staryu (Jun 28, 2010)

Lara Croft said:


> Yeah, I totally agree with you there...it's about emotions and how well you can relate to people and the such...not necessarily being outgoing
> 
> 
> I don't know if I could ever have a life partner who's an NT...I can definitely have them as friends. Main things I've noticed with them: don't know how to have fun, won't break any rules at all, totally don't get me, not very imaginative or cretive


INTJ here, nice to meet you. For the record, I DO know how to have fun(depends on what you classify as fun), I break rules when i see fit, the part about not getting you..im not sure, and "not very imaginative or creative" is NOT me. i consider myself extremely flamboyant and have always loved art. where are you getting these generalizations from?
BTW, you meant "asocial" not ANTIsocial. there is a big difference.
Just thought I'd correct a few things here.


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## Isis (Jul 8, 2010)

thehigher said:


> well.... I don't really either to tell you the truth.... it's mostly because I just don't freakin understand NT's..... I do in one way.... meaning I get how they perceive their information..... the intuition connection is obvious when speaking to them..... however.... the way the make sense of the content..... meaning the way they make judgements on their perceived stimuli..... I just don't get it. I can mimic and I can attempt to understand logic in an intuitive way.... but it's just so foreign. What really throws me off is when they give you feelings..... ......
> 
> Also.... I feel as though as an INFP I am very good at understanding peoples emotions and reading their facial expressions and all..... NT's are harder to do this with.
> 
> ...


Actually, it seems to me that NTs are pretty easy to understand--just keep things factual and logical and it all makes sense, kind of. 

The feelings bit can throw us off, too, but not because we don't have feelings...it's more that the feelings aren't really a great way to make any sort of decision, so we see them as bothersome and just muddying other things up. 

For me, there's a big "so what if you feel bad" aspect to dealing with things... OK, you feel bad, and that's undoubtedly real, but there are things to be done, and those feelings are not really a great basis for some types of decision making.


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## cappuccinocool (Aug 7, 2010)

Ok I must be an NT because I'm so isolated that I feel like I'm waiting for spiritual enlightenment or something


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## Blue Heart (Aug 15, 2009)

Isis said:


> it's more that the feelings aren't really a great way to make any sort of decision, so we see them as bothersome and just muddying other things up.


Interesting. My feelings are how I 'think', if you will. If I try and think my way through the intuitive information I get, it muddies things up for me, I am more likely to make poor decisions. It is my gut feeling/knowing that guides me best. It wouldn't be 'logical' for me to not use my feelings to make a decision.

Back on subject: I really like NT's as friends, with ENTP's as my personal favorite - talk about fun, off the wall people to hang with!


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## Isis (Jul 8, 2010)

Blue Heart said:


> Interesting. My feelings are how I 'think', if you will. If I try and think my way through the intuitive information I get, it muddies things up for me, I am more likely to make poor decisions. It is my gut feeling/knowing that guides me best. It wouldn't be 'logical' for me to not use my feelings to make a decision.
> 
> Back on subject: I really like NT's as friends, with ENTP's as my personal favorite - talk about fun, off the wall people to hang with!


I actually have the same problem because the way I think is also like a "gut" instinct (I'm not so much for plodding through the process). I can do a logical step-by-step process (but it's a bit painful).

The issue for me is when someone is very insistent on going through a "process" that is not systematic and has no reference to factual information and seems more like a weird spew of their stream of consciousness.

So, if you're dealing with NTs and say "I think we need to do this because it's obviously the right thing to do" they might be able to hear your solution without worrying too much about how you got there... do you find that?


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## Blue Heart (Aug 15, 2009)

Isis said:


> I actually have the same problem because the way I think is also like a "gut" instinct (I'm not so much for plodding through the process). I can do a logical step-by-step process (but it's a bit painful).


I wonder, do you actually get a gut feeling, or a knowing in your mind? My knowing comes from my heart, not my head, if that makes any sense.


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## Isis (Jul 8, 2010)

Blue Heart said:


> I wonder, do you actually get a gut feeling, or a knowing in your mind? My knowing comes from my heart, not my head, if that makes any sense.


It's like a "gut knowing" more of a mental reflex. And of course that makes sense... it's just if you want to convince a "thinker" of something you need to think it's right. It's like when I talk to my marketing manager and say "I feel" when I really mean "I think."


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