# Alpa, Beta, Delta or Gamma?



## Bobble

"At least according to my proposition.

Yes I've had to make this post out of making it clear that men of the world aren't just easily categorized into "Alphas" and "Betas." There are plenty of males who are - by the grace of modern-day media propagandists like MTV and BET - deemed alpha but are truly pushovers in the right situation. And there are men who are deemed "beta" by default because they don't feel the need to go around and act like a complete jackass or hooligan. I deem these type of males "Delta Males" and "Gamma Males" respectively.

Delta Males: These kind of guys put off a good front of acting like they're "Alpha males" by conforming into whatever is fashionable and admired by the masses. Most of these men (if you can call them that) need a lot of assurance by society to the point of having little backbone to think for themselves. Sure, many Delta males are surrounded by "friends" and are good at get their fair share of girls by "wooing" them with some pop-culture nonsense (whether it's A&F-style gauche preppiness or poser hip-hop wannabe thuggishness), but that crowd and attention is more imperative for their self-esteem than anything else. For if you take away all of the girls from them and get these same males by themselves, a Delta male's personality completely changes and their "true self" is revealed. Many of these kind of guys are rather weak-minded, crowd-pleasing, conformists who aren't even worthy of the name "Covert Betas" and "Betas in the Closet."

Gamma Males: These kind of dudes are more or less self-reliant, self-motivated, and self-assured in their own personality that no one can change their ways. Some of these kind of males are considered loners, but this is not to case for all Gamma Males. Because of their stern personality, many people tend to write off these men as "Betas" by default because they won't conform to being whatever "Chic Alpha" trait exists during that time period. The man who's confident in his own self-worth and looks is said to go a long way with what women want. But as for recent times (I'll say since the early 2000s), most females are more impressed with being "wooed" with inane attributes, something that most Gamma males will refuse to do unless their original personality is what woos the female. These men, until recently, have had no problems getting with "American females" but recently, even these males are getting thrown in the "weak male" shelf because of their lack of conforming to the masses. Though getting women - even in today's time - isn't as much of a problem as it is for the "stereotypical Alpha Male," this is still a concern for quite a few Gamma males who were either born too recent (those in their teens and twenties) or those who live in areas where narcissism and American pop-culture rule the minds of the masses.

Whether you agree with me or not on the technical terminology, the fact that there is a huge group of male personalities beyond the Alpha/Beta Male dichotomy. I just want to see if anyone else notices this as well."

^ I found this on another forum. I never knew there were four types. Turns out I'm a Gamma though looking for a more detailed profile of one online didn't really turn up anything except for some serious misinterpreted information on this type.

Does anyone know where I could find some more information on this type?


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## Talon

In high school I had a friend who fit the delta male description to a T. He always tried so hard to appear alpha and cool but I could see right through him. Deep down he was just a scared little boy who wanted to be accepted but I know he'd never admit that, ever.

As for me, I think I'd consider myself a gamma male. The description you posted fits me pretty well. I definitely don't fit the stereotypical alpha male mold and beta males are insecure pushovers which is something I am not.


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## The Great One

I was a beta male in high school. Everyone actually thought I was gay for a while because all I hung out with was females because I was such a kind a sensitive person. I got so sick of it, that one day when one of the hottest cheerleaders came up to me and asked if I was gay, I slapped her on the ass and squeezed with all of my might. I later had my ass thoroughly kicked by her quarterback ex-boyfriend, but at least it got the message across that I wasn't gay. I have no problem with gay people, but I certainly am not gay.

I think NF men, commonly get typed as beta males. It sucks.


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## Sybok

I considered myself for a time as Omega-Male ;D
like the wolf What does omega do in a wolf pack


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## Bobble

"Gamma Man.

One of the blogs I like most to frequent is Ferdinand's. His In Mala Fide blog is perhaps the best pop conservative sites out there. The term Pop Conservative is not meant as a slight, it's likely to be far more influential that a highbrow blog since it adopts a style that the average man can appreciate. I like his site not because he mentions my blog, but rather he promotes other blogs which are far more interesting than mine. One that has caught my eye and has impressed me no end is Athol Kay's, Married Man Sex Life. Really, although the blog title might be a bit off putting--he really should call it Wife Management 101--the blog is definitely worth the read. Why? Because Athol "gets" the big picture.

The Roissysphere tends to view relationships as purely sexual. A man status and happiness are measured by the quality of the lay. A man banging 10's is more Alpha and happier than a man banging 8's. While there is a great deal of truth to this in high school, in reality adult relationships need much more than simple sexual attraction. That's not to say that sexual attraction is not important--social conservatives please note--rather grown ups tend to want other things as well: stability, friendship, love etc. Neil Strauss, the populiser of Game realised this; his own relationship with Lisa Leveridge failed. He could pull in the hotties but it appears he couldn't keep them.

The curious paradox is that what seems to keep relationships going long term is a combination of both alpha and beta traits. A man has to possess characteristics which both turn a woman sexually on and turn her off. In Roissy's taxonomy of men, the males are divided into Alpha, Beta and Omega. But Roissy only measures by the ability to get laid. Instead Athol Kay--who is focusing on long term relationships-- builds on this and proposes the Gamma male: (I've shamelessly borrowed this image and text from his site. It's brilliant)

The Omega Male is easiest to dispense with. He’s just devoid of positive qualities and only the most desperate of women would desire to mate with him. Even then he’ll likely need up being supported by her to some degree. Avoid him.

The pure Alpha Bad Boys certainly do pull the women, but the relationships tend to be short as eventually the women become uncomfortable with the lack of comfort building support. There’s plenty of excitement, and sizzling sex as the attraction is definitely there for her, but she knows from the beginning its not going to last, but she is drawn to him anyway.

The pure Beta Nice Guy also pull women, but they pull differently. They “make sense” on an intellectual level and they are very comfortable to live with. More than likely they are too comfortable, and the woman tends to want to see a display of dominance of some sort before she becomes fully attracted to him. Ultimately the nice guys are just too sexually boring to women to remain completely focused on one. Queue the “I love you, but I’m not in love with you speech”. What is often seen in young women is ping ponging between bad boys and nice guys –she gets a dose of crazy sexual attraction from the bad boy, but then she needs the comfort building and she seeks it from a nice guy, and then the cycle repeats over and over until the music stops around age 35 and she’s scrambling to find a chair anywhere.

The ideal is the Gamma Male. Not often talked about, but they are out there. Usually a Gamma is an Alpha Male that “grew up” and toned down the antics slightly and started being socially conscious and more of a team player. Or they started as a Beta Male that “grew a pair” and started bumping back on the rest of the world rather than just taking it lying down. Either way works as a route. Like Jean-Luc Picard, Gammas use diplomacy but when required to they will respond with adept force. Mostly they are consciously aware of both their own natures, and the needs of women. They adjust on the fly to the situation, sometimes hard, sometimes soft. Gamma’s are the true ideal, but I think the Alpha and Beta terms are so ingrained, that it is simply easier to broken record the idea that if you’re too Alpha the solution is to add Beta, and if you’re too Beta the solution is to add Alpha. You already know what your weak area is. Work on that for easy gains.

A couple of points. Firstly, these are pretty astute social observations and they square up with what I see in practice. Implicit in Mr Kay's observations are that women are sexual beings and that there is a sexual dimension to normal male female relationships. Secondly, for a male, being "nice" alone just doesn't cut the mustard as a woman needs a sexual dimension to the relationship for it to go anywhere; women are inherently sexual beings. Religious conservatives please note, sexual desire isn't something that "foreign" to the female ideal, it's part and parcel of the female package. The romantic meme, that the way to woman's virtue is via the path of "niceness", flaunts real world observation and is not congruent with reality. Finally, when women are asked what type of guy they like, a nice guy is usually the answer. What they of course mean is a nice guy who makes them hot and horny.

The Roissysphere has popularised the notion of the Alpha male. And really, if a life of Hedonism is your goal then that's all you need. Because it's quite apparent that women--when freed from social mores--are just as superficial judges of character as most men are. In our current bathhouse culture, women are more likely to be motivated by their loins than their heart in the choice of a bed mate, especially when drunk. So if your aim is to bed as men women as you can, being Alpha is all that matters. The Beta traits, the traits that are the foundation of lasting love, domestic awe, industry, prosperity are unnecessary. But if these things matter to you, then your going to have to cultivate both alpha and beta traits you're going to have to strive to be a gamma male.

Really, nice guys don't finish last. It's nice guys without alpha traits that finish last.

Read Athol Kay's blog. Its very very good.

(N.B. I don't agree with everything he says, I disagree with his pharmacological opinions i.e how the pill works and the use of anti-depressant medication, but his understanding of psychology in my opinion is spot on.)"

^ This is a good illustration of how women have actually been creating this type of gamma relationship in their love life by going through alpha and beta phases when it came to the men they dated. They were, like everyone else, looking for that balance.

In fact I think thats where the whole gamma personality comes from. When someone is able to take all these character traits that we all have inside of us and work on them until they're somewhat balanced then they would naturally develope the personality thats a reflection of these balanced traits and anyone else who has done the same will develope somewhat similar character traits causing us to both be able to see ourselves in the gamma personality profile.


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## Bobble

The Great One said:


> I was a beta male in high school. Everyone actually thought I was gay for a while because all I hung out with was females because I was such a kind a sensitive person. I got so sick of it, that one day when one of the hottest cheerleaders came up to me and asked if I was gay, I slapped her on the ass and squeezed with all of my might. I later had my ass thoroughly kicked by her quarterback ex-boyfriend, but at least it got the message across that I wasn't gay. I have no problem with gay people, but I certainly am not gay.
> 
> I think NF men, commonly get typed as beta males. It sucks.


I'm exactly the same way and when I was really young, before I had broke out of my shell, no one was quite sure which way I'd end up swinging  well I should say no one but me and even though I wasn't gay I really didn't put any effort into denying the claims. Since its something that doesn't matter there was nothing to defend.

So what is the reason why you feel so comfortable hanging out with so many females? if you don't mind me asking.


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## sprinkles

There are discrete values, and there are real values.

With discrete values, you can invent just as many or as few types to define people as you want to. If you observe what can be classified as delta or gamma then that's what you observe.

With discrete values, types fall into exactly one category. With real values, something is never quite exactly one defined type or another, but is actually somewhere in between.

Or put this way: if your types are on a grid, and you use discrete values, then every point falls exactly on a defined grid intersection. But if you use real values, it is possible to have points anywhere in the grid, even between lines or intersections.


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## The Great One

Bobble said:


> I'm exactly the same way and when I was really young, before I had broke out of my shell, no one was quite sure which way I'd end up swinging  well I should say no one but me and even though I wasn't gay I really didn't put any effort into denying the claims. Since its something that doesn't matter there was nothing to defend.
> 
> So what is the reason why you feel so comfortable hanging out with so many females? if you don't mind me asking.


First off, you probably didn't care that every one viewed you as being gay because you are probably not social first on the enneagram. If you were social first, you would care a lot more about what people thought of you. I am social first.

In answer to your question, I am much more comfortable hanging around females because females are much more emotional beings as opposed to men. As an Fi user, expressing emotions comes natural to me, and since most women are naturally emotional beings it draws them towards me. There's not many dudes that can sit with a woman and talk about how they feel all the time. This is a sigh of relief for most girls and most women are rather fond of it. However, the shitty thing is that because I am so good at seeing other's side of a situation and instantly knowing how they feel about it, and with being so open minded that I don't naturally judge people (Ne<Fi): women like to automatically think of me as their therapist. 

I quickly found out though, that when you become a woman's therapist, she associates you with her problem. So she then only see's you as like a friend or guidance councilor. She has no romantic interest in you. So because I was the atypical man that was kind, sensitive, and understanding, I was viewed as an outcast. I quickly squashed the idea of being a girl's therapist unless they dated me. They got my kindness, warmth and understanding only if they were dating me. Now whenever a girl gives me the "Oh your such a good friend" line. I say, "Can it sister. I don't befriend hot girls. It goes against my code." I try to publicly act like a hard ass now in order to mask my warm-gooey center. I'm like a tootsie pop: I have a hard outer shell, but a gooey-tootsie center in the middle. It is adaptation that I have made in order to become socially accepted.


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## Noctis

I would say I am Beta-Omega Male.


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## Lio256

I'm pretty much a beta I guess.


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## series0

Another nonsensical categorization born of reductionist J-style thought.

A man can choose. A man can earn wisdom. A man can be all these categories and if someone categorizes them it says more about them that it does about the man. 

Being aware of these labels is merely the self-knowledge a man can have, a way to look at himself as a 3rd person. The challenge is always to occupy a category you have not held yet. To 'become' more than what you are. 

All such challenges are met by the wisdom of first realizing that equality of worthiness is a moral truth. If you act this way, you will be abused for it. Most people childishly want to consider themselves fundamentally more worthy than other people. This is an immoral effort. Dim witted types will conflate what I am saying here to money or skill or something that has no moral weight, like that. Wiser types will realize I am saying that nothing you do or do not do can ever change your inherent worthiness as a person.

Once you realize this, accept it in your heart, your manner will change. You can slide from these alpha, beta, blah bah categories more easily, taking on the aspect of other men who evidence these traits, knowing yourself worthy of possessing them. Get busy.


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## NewBeginning

This is all bullspeak. A male is characterized by his personality quadra and type, not by media "standards" which don't exist. Your mind creates categories around which your existence is compared to the individuals around you so that adaptation, or the laws of nature, can lead you to finding a fitting mating partner, which is where duality comes into play.


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## LostWayfarer

I think that everyone is ok in the way he is.. 

Animals do things because they have their hierachies, in the human world I think alfa, beta, gamma, delta and omega can be used only to measure some attitudes, not 'wrong/right' behaviours. Anyway, here is a test that I did to understand my psycch:

alphawomanthebook.com


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## strawberryLola

What about thetas? Hah!:tongue:


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