# Is there a reliable way to differentiate between S vs N for yourself?



## Reginer (Jun 18, 2020)

Well, as we do know, it is pretty common for Sensors to mistype as Intuitives due to how the questions are framed in the tests than the other way round(like "do you have a sudden realization?", "do you consider yourself imaginative?")And another factor is, we as humans try to answer the questions based on how we want to be perceived or perhaps how we actually perceive ourself. Personality questionnaires imo seem to be sensitive to moods. So with that said, does anyone have a test which you think is decent for testing S vs N?


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## The Last (Apr 19, 2020)

The short answer is no.




The long answer (and an excuse to rant) is:

There could be no accurate way outside of awareness. The problem is that N is generally the smarter one and Dunning-Kruger and the Forer Effect take hold of people. You go on the internet to see if you are N or S and every retard has self typed as an N because they way over evaluate their own mind. Then all these idiots go running around saying "oh you sound like me and I'm ENFP so you must be ENFP" or how now 30% of the population is INFJ so INFJ just means vaguely a nice person.

At this point the only way you could determine is if you read up what Jung said in Psychological Types about the functions, understood it, then applied it to yourself honestly. Over time, if you pay attention to yourself and others you can see, you can then decide what you are. The problem then becomes a matter of understanding what he said because it is complicated. So really, you would need someone who understands it to point out the concepts to you if you cannot understand it. Here is my attempt at that

Ni describes perceiving the world as future events. They connect dots and develop the idea to the outcome of what it should be and then experience that outcome as if it were real. This is sometimes confused with Introverted Feeling's gut reactions to moral problems as opposed to actually thinking through the problem logically. Thinking and Feeling are only the Judging aspect of the personality so you have to see what is constantly being judged.

Se belongs to the same axis as Ni because Jung's theory is done in pairs of opposites. When Ni is leading, then the person risks leaving the real world, which is why they need Se to balance them out. However most people interpret this as "I daydream so I must be an N", but daydreaming is something most people do especially when bored. It would be like saying you get bored with something because you are Ni. I mean maybe Ni could be why you got bored but it assumes that it is the only answer to being bored. Ni is a world of strictly subjective imagination of what connecting whatever dots can lead to. Se is about experiencing something for it to be true to them. Many Se's are completely unaware that that is the case. This results in short term realization of the world and why Ni then balances that out.

Another common misconception with that is Fi wants identity. Fe gains identity from other people, but Fi wants to believe it is an authentic individual of a particular kind and when you bring up MBTI types they like it BECAUSE of the "You are the special blah blah blah You are validated for being this identity and good because of who you are." So an ISFP has Se but is interested in psychology for those reasons. It has the Fi lead it into that then Ni tertiary becomes over exaggerated in descriptions. So even though they are an Se type of function they relate more to the lesser conscious part of their brain because that is the desired one.

Ne and Si are along the axis of new and old respectively. The Ne sees things as new potential to understand. This is done at an abstract level. Si perceives the world as a comparison to what it already knows about the world. It will go with the familiar or prefers handling the familiar. This is why it is so commonly thought of as conservative, but the reality is conservatism is almost entirely dead in the West, so what people are familiar with are progressive ideals. Questions will then assume because you are a progressive it is because you are breaking new grounds, but really you are doing the same shit everyone else is doing around you. It's all the same favored perception as anyone else. With Te (ISTJ) they might try to be critical about things, but ultimately the perception is limited to what they know and it will be apparent as a skeptic who is only skeptical of everything except what they already believe which could be conservatism or progressivism.

These questions usually then become badly worded as "Do you like change?" Well no shit everyone is going to say they like change, but in what aspects and how often? The Ne wants to constantly question "what if" for everything. This is the appeal of politics, philosophy, anthropology, computers, etc for them is that it is a world to explore and understand and ultimately get bored with and move on to the next thing. It isn't that you have to be interested in literally everything in the world but people say they daydream and like change and now they are an INFP because the title is "The Dreamer". So questions would have to ask how many things do you research? How academic are you? People say they read harry potter and have a crazy imagination, but all they care about is cooking and going out to the club. Like when the rubber hits the road and it is "what energizes you" "what is the time you were happiest" or what is the "ideal situation" (anything of those sorts) they will answer hanging out with friends watching movies or that time they went to some foreign country to go hiking. If you were to talk to them about a higher level concept they would either pretend to be interested for the sense of ego or be bored of it because it isn't immediately accessible to the senses.

Ultimately that is why N's are seen as special compared to S's. INTP, INTJ, INFP, INFJ, and ENTP will commonly be intelligent, because that's how their brain works. They want to figure out very difficult things. I mean, it isn't 100% but there is a strong correlation. So people see the creative intellectual type and the hyper conservative dad who likes to mow the lawn and say they are the intellectual type AND because of the widespread knowledge of N vs F and all the shitty tests when they see the question "Do you have some vague sense of imagination in you?" they answer strongly agree then argue with you about how they HAVE to be an N. It is kind of the ultimate of anything not strictly mathematical. You could read the MBTI manual and read statistics for the types you suspect you are and see where you fall. But then what test could you have that would accurately determine what you are? You can't. It is actually impossible. Even with everything spelled out, the majority of people are incapable of introspection at the level required to understand it and just need someone to assign the type to them.


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## Reginer (Jun 18, 2020)

Seems like a well thought out answer. I only have very few issues with the explanation. Mainly, I don't really agree with reasons for why Ni has to pair with Se, same for Ne and Si. Unless it is talking about a well balanced person.


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

The Last said:


> Se belongs to the same axis as Ni because Jung's theory is done in pairs of opposites. When Ni is leading, then the person risks leaving the real world, which is why they need Se to balance them out.


No it's not like that in Jung's theory, someone being an introvert & intuitive means their extraversion & sensing are relatively undeveloped which gives them whatever idiosyncrasy/peculiarity they have same as any other combo and its opposite. In Jung's theory also there are no 8 functions, N+I are two different things.


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## FlyingT (Jul 10, 2018)

The big problem I have is when people think N means intelligence and S means real world and stupid. I think that is the most frustrating thing for me because not only do I know stupid N types, but so many people who are obviously sensing based on how they take in information and communicate ideas think they are extremely intelligent and creative so they put themselves in the N category.
I also hate when someone says they are not an S because they daydream. Everybody daydreams. In fact I know high Si types and Se types who daydream way more than Ne and Ni types. I think the best way to tell is to first find the axis which is Si-Ne or Se-Ni. Once that is done you need to identify which one is higher.

This problem is actually not that bad in the real world though, because many S types are obviously S types but tend to not care about MBTI to the extent of going to a forum in the first place. The problem I have is when someone takes the 16 personalities test and stops there after they get INFJ or something so rare that they just do not care to look it up or go to a forum and discover the functions.


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## The Last (Apr 19, 2020)

Red Panda said:


> No it's not like that in Jung's theory, someone being an introvert & intuitive means their extraversion & sensing are relatively undeveloped which gives them whatever idiosyncrasy/peculiarity they have same as any other combo and its opposite. In Jung's theory also there are no 8 functions, N+I are two different things.





Reginer said:


> Seems like a well thought out answer. I only have very few issues with the explanation. Mainly, I don't really agree with reasons for why Ni has to pair with Se, same for Ne and Si. Unless it is talking about a well balanced person.


I was referencing this from Psychological Types.

"What the introverted intuitive represses most of all is the sensation of
the object, and this colours his whole unconscious. It gives rise to a
compensatory extraverted sensation function of an archaic character. The
unconscious personality can best be described as an extraverted sensation
type of a rather low and primitive order. Instinctuality and intemperance
are the hallmarks of this sensation, combined with an extraordinary
dependence on sense-impressions. This compensates the rarefied air of the
intuitive’s conscious attitude, giving it a certain weight, so that complete
“sublimation” is prevented."


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## Reginer (Jun 18, 2020)

FlyingT said:


> The big problem I have is when people think N means intelligence and S means real world and stupid. I think that is the most frustrating thing for me because not only do I know stupid N types, but so many people who are obviously sensing based on how they take in information and communicate ideas think they are extremely intelligent and creative so they put themselves in the N category.
> I also hate when someone says they are not an S because they daydream. Everybody daydreams. In fact I know high Si types and Se types who daydream way more than Ne and Ni types. I think the best way to tell is to first find the axis which is Si-Ne or Se-Ni. Once that is done you need to identify which one is higher.
> 
> This problem is actually not that bad in the real world though, because many S types are obviously S types but tend to not care about MBTI to the extent of going to a forum in the first place. The problem I have is when someone takes the 16 personalities test and stops there after they get INFJ or something so rare that they just do not care to look it up or go to a forum and discover the functions.


I think that most of the intelligent Sensors can mistype as Intuitives due to the design of general personality tests. In some rare cases Intuitives can also mistype as Sensor, depending on the environment they had grown up with. And yeah, most people certainly do daydream. So using that as an argument to consider you an N type is just a way to delude yourself.


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

The Last said:


> I was referencing this from Psychological Types.
> 
> "What the introverted intuitive represses most of all is the sensation of
> the object, and this colours his whole unconscious. It gives rise to a
> ...


If you meant it this way, alright. But usually when people mention this "balancing" they mean it as if the inferior is some other tool in their belt when it's more like a worst combo which is why I objected.


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## Bunniculla (Jul 17, 2017)

I have always held the belief that individual perceiving functions cannot be understood on their own. After all, once you have analyzed and interpreted what has occurred after the fact, you have already engaged your judging functions. So I always looked at it this way: N+T/F or S+T/F and any other function combinations as such.

Summarizing as best I can, N types prefer a basis (starting point) of abstractions over real world experience while S types prefer the opposite to this. I am talking about where the starting point/foundation of your observations/thoughts stem from. If you prefer to take in the sensory details, then you're a Sensor. You cannot do both taking in sensory details and abstracting away from them all at the same time, so that's where the distinction between N and S lies. So physical details kind of person? Probably an S type.


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## PathSeeker (Aug 3, 2020)

Bunniculla said:


> You cannot do both taking in sensory details and abstracting away from them all at the same time, so that's where the distinction between N and S lies. So physical details kind of person? Probably an S type.


Wait, you can't?


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## JR_the_Extraordinary (Jul 30, 2020)

I think a lot of the differences between Sensors and Intuitives that people typically see such as, "being weird" or "using imagination" are symptoms of the core difference between S and N which I've always thought is:

N types trust their ability to make conclusions based on incomplete information. They trust their ability to infer. They trust their intuition. Here’s an example...
An old man looks out his window and sees a darkish cloud in the sky. Then he sees his dog curled up in the corner, shaking. He feels his joints get stiff. And finally he sees his neighbors drive by—coming from the direction of the dark cloud—and their car is wet.
As an N type, the old man trusts his ability to infer that a storm is coming. He doesn’t need to actually see the rain himself to believe that rain is on it’s way. 
An S type however doesn’t trust their intuition. They trust what they can directly observe with their five senses. So an S type won’t trust their intuition. They won’t believe that a storm is coming. They need to see the storm pouring down on them to believe it.

I think for the most part all the other differences and stereotypes are the result of this root difference. However, the cognitive functions should be the focus. Do you primarily use Ne or Ni or Se or Si? And of course, the functions all have their own definitions that are only related to, or build upon the core difference between S and N which I stated above.

For example, Ne is about possibilities. Well, possibilities aren't real yet. Therefore, they cannot be seen through the 5 senses. Thus, a sensor would value, trust, and be interested in possibilities much less.


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## Reginer (Jun 18, 2020)

That's an interesting way to look at it. However I think that it would only apply to N or S doms. Someone with dominant T or F can have some difficulty in applying above example fully. Rather they form their judgement already.


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## JR_the_Extraordinary (Jul 30, 2020)

That's a good point I probably was thinking more about S and N doms


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