# Your experience with SJs



## Wisteria (Apr 2, 2015)

I'm curious if you've met anyone who seems like an SJ. As someone who scores as ISFJ in the MBTI assessment, the descriptions of Si doesn't sound much like me, and I can't say I've ever met anyone who fits the definition either. Especially about the attachment to past experiences. I can sometimes be sentimental, but i'd rather seek new experiences and reminisce the old ones. However the part about attention to details and recalling facts is somewhat like myself, according to others.

Description of Si:
Introverted sensation (Si)
Introverted sensation is the sensing function that perceives phenomena in such a way as extraverted sensation does above, but in a subjective manner. As Jung notes that all introverted functions focus on the past, Si is said to compare phenomena with past experiences (this has never been said by Jung himself; it is a common internet misconception)[12] and is very detailed in what it detects,[11] thus creating a level of conscientiousness and procedure in their work.[13] It is chiefly concerned with a meticulous cataloging of physical experiences and recalling them when the user perceives similarity in their subjective experiences of current reality. It wants things to be pinned down and concluded, mistrusting novel possibilities which explains the adherence to traditional ways.

So if you've met a person like this, how did you recognise it? What were they good/bad at? If you're actually an SJ yourself, do you find these descriptions accurate?


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## kjdaniels (May 14, 2017)

Wisteria said:


> I'm curious if you've met anyone who seems like an SJ. As someone who scores as ISFJ in the MBTI assessment, the descriptions of Si doesn't sound much like me, and I can't say I've ever met anyone who fits the definition either. Especially about the attachment to past experiences. I can sometimes be sentimental, but i'd rather seek new experiences and reminisce the old ones. However the part about attention to details and recalling facts is somewhat like myself, according to others.
> 
> Description of Si:
> Introverted sensation (Si)
> ...


As a fellow ISFJ while I do have a great memory for the past and can remember things easily. Si essentially is comparing and contrasting current situations with memories accumulated over your lifetime via your 5 senses and other senses. With Si, sense we are doing this we can spot changes and inconsistencies quickly. Your part about seeking new experiences and reminicising the old ones sounds a lot like me too. I like taking in new experiences because then I can go home and review them. I’m somewhat sentimental also but not super sentimental. You could still be an ISFJ because Si is a very subjective memory and we are able to recall facts and details that are important to us from the past easily. I will say the Internet descriptions of Si aren’t the best sense they are mainly written by intuitives. 



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## Stevester (Feb 28, 2016)

Um, every SJ and every type for that matter wants new experiences. The grass can always been greener on the other side, much? It's human nature to want more.

If you meet someone who literally wants time to stop and every single thing in their lives to remain as is, they are either mental or really, really lucky.


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## Wisteria (Apr 2, 2015)

Stevester said:


> Um, every SJ and every type for that matter wants new experiences. The grass can always been greener on the other side, much? It's human nature to want more.
> 
> If you meet someone who literally wants time to stop and every single thing in their lives to remain as is, they are either mental or really, really lucky.


That's how the descriptions sound though. MBTI states that you primarily operate their the dominant and auxiliary function, which would suggest that an SJ uses this function perspective the majority of the time.

Everyone wants to experience new things and can also be sentimental at the same time.



kjdaniels said:


> As a fellow ISFJ while I do have a great memory for the past and can remember things easily. Si essentially is comparing and contrasting current situations with memories accumulated over your lifetime via your 5 senses and other senses. With Si, sense we are doing this we can spot changes and inconsistencies quickly. Your part about seeking new experiences and reminicising the old ones sounds a lot like me too. I like taking in new experiences because then I can go home and review them. I’m somewhat sentimental also but not super sentimental. You could still be an ISFJ because Si is a very subjective memory and we are able to recall facts and details that are important to us from the past easily. I will say the Internet descriptions of Si aren’t the best sense they are mainly written by intuitives.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sorry that was a typo. I meant that i'd rather experience something new than* reminisce the past.
I've never actually been typed as an Si dom by anyone on this forum, believe it or not.


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## Crystal Winter Dream (May 27, 2018)

The thing that is misunderstood about these SJ descriptions usually is SJ is sentimental, but not so sentimental they never desire change. They mainly won't suggest a change unless they feel the change is moreless "useful." If it is useful, helpful, positive then SJ will definitely join the side of change.


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## Aluminum Frost (Oct 1, 2017)

Makes sense theoretically but no I can't say I have but I wouldn't know how I would see that in a person. A few years ago for a few months there was this really strange phenomena going on in my head and it's how Si is described. Literally anything I looked at would remind me of something else in my past, couldn't turn it off. This is what Si is supposed to be but I can't imagine Si doms would experience such a thing regularly. I would walk down the street and it would immediately remind me of another street that looks similar or the last time I walked down the same street. If I saw a can of soda on the floor it would remind me of a BBQ cause there was soda and things like that. It was just ridiculous and useless.

That was a tangent, anyways human-beings like novelty, period. We need it and crave it. Some just more than others.


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## Llyralen (Sep 4, 2017)

Sometimes our dominant function can also be a blind spot. Meaning that our dominant function is so natural for us, it's like the air we breathe and it's hard to imagine how someone else would do it differently. 

Si comes across to me as constantly comparing details and a love of consistency in daily work-- meaning ISFJs like knowing exactly what they are doing and supposed to do. My ISFJ secretary is excited by the idea of a vacation and loves showing me pictures of her past vacations and events-- so that would be something she's excited about enough to give up the comfort of daily consistency. Disruptions to her usual work flow are difficult for her. But as Ne dominant I will do the same exact task very differently each time because I can't stand doing something the same way and the new way comes to my mind readily. In this way, I'm usually able to figure out why a process should be changed, and this causes her some stress with me. It must look like chaos to someone who is constantly comparing how I did something this minute to how I did it yesterday. But she has learned to also like my ideas since systems get improved when I'm looking at them to ultimately make things easier and less stressful for her and others and she knows she can rely on me for solutions to problems she brings me. I rely on her to get things done consistently as well...all the consistent things that make me want to scream she is so awesome at. I would be under so much stress if it weren't for her and her awesome reliability. This went from being one of the worst partnerships to being one of the best, actually, once she understood my intents and learned to appreciate my skills. And Fe-Fi sharing can be really lovely when both parties know that the other one cares.


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## Zosio (Mar 17, 2015)

Yep. Tons of people. 

xxSJs tend to do well with things pertaining to sensory details. They're typically better than most Ns -- especially NJs -- when it comes to keeping track of more concrete details. If you want a task done in a very specific, instructed way, an xxSJ is usually your best bet. NJs, their functional opposites, have a very fuzzy take on instructions (in other words, we're usually not "by the book;" we have a tendency to bend or dance around rules). 

E.g.: When it comes to cooking, xxSJs are more likely to carry out recipes exactly as they read them. They're more likely to care about getting the measurements just right and doing everything precisely as instructed. As an INFJ, the way that I cook is very intuitive and loose. I seldom go by specific instructions unless I'm doing difficult recipe for the first time or if it's something I'm baking. My approach is good for experimenting and coming up with new things, but it's not good for teaching other people or replicating anything.


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## Tyche (May 12, 2011)

Aluminum Frost said:


> Makes sense theoretically but no I can't say I have but I wouldn't know how I would see that in a person. A few years ago for a few months there was this really strange phenomena going on in my head and it's how Si is described. Literally anything I looked at would remind me of something else in my past, couldn't turn it off. This is what Si is supposed to be but I can't imagine Si doms would experience such a thing regularly. I would walk down the street and it would immediately remind me of another street that looks similar or the last time I walked down the same street. If I saw a can of soda on the floor it would remind me of a BBQ cause there was soda and things like that. It was just ridiculous and useless.
> 
> That was a tangent, anyways human-beings like novelty, period. We need it and crave it. Some just more than others.


Not all the time but regularly. Sometimes a certain smell will trigger a memory. Like one time I smelled something that reminded me of standing in the cafeteria from my elementary school. Sometimes it's visual, sometimes it's a song, sometimes a word. Sometimes the memory isn't one I usually think about or remember well until the triggering moment, but other times it's a regular memory.

It's kind of useless but it's not ridiculous. I kind of like these moments.


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## SilentScream (Mar 31, 2011)

Zosio913 said:


> E.g.: When it comes to cooking,* xxSJs are more likely to carry out recipes exactly as they read them. They're more likely to care about getting the measurements just right and doing everything precisely as instructed. *As an INFJ, the way that I cook is very intuitive and loose. I seldom go by specific instructions unless I'm doing difficult recipe for the first time or if it's something I'm baking. My approach is good for experimenting and coming up with new things, but it's not good for teaching other people or replicating anything.


Definitely observe this difference IRL between myself and Etherea. I cannot get her to budge from a recipe at all. 

That said, she's so good at following recipes that I'm amazed in a way because since I can't do it, I can't help but believe that it's some sort of a skill. 

My mom tries to follow instructions, but she always just has to throw in something that would deviate from the recipe. Sounds like what you do. She has her own recipes now which I refer to if I want to make something Pakistani. She never baked anything btw, meanwhile Etherea is pretty damned good at it. TBH, I'm only finally discovering the joys of home-baked goods because my mom was so crap at it that she never even had an oven. 

I'm also a very gut instinct kind of a cook. I hate following instructions because they're tedious and restrain my flair .. because my food has to have .. flair .. it has to be fun and bursting with flavor. I pay more attention to cooking techniques, prep methods, utensils and cookware .. then ingredients. The _activity _of cooking needs to be fun for me. If it gets tedious (this is more of the week to week cooking that I _have_ to do), I'll literally just toss whatever I want in a crockpot and forget about it. 

I do cook well though. I know no one other than my wife gets to taste it, but I trust that she's honest when she tells me that she loves my cooking.


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## kjdaniels (May 14, 2017)

Zosio913 said:


> Yep. Tons of people.
> 
> xxSJs tend to do well with things pertaining to sensory details. They're typically better than most Ns -- especially NJs -- when it comes to keeping track of more concrete details. If you want a task done in a very specific, instructed way, an xxSJ is usually your best bet. NJs, their functional opposites, have a very fuzzy take on instructions (in other words, we're usually not "by the book;" we have a tendency to bend or dance around rules).
> 
> E.g.: When it comes to cooking, xxSJs are more likely to carry out recipes exactly as they read them. They're more likely to care about getting the measurements just right and doing everything precisely as instructed. As an INFJ, the way that I cook is very intuitive and loose. I seldom go by specific instructions unless I'm doing difficult recipe for the first time or if it's something I'm baking. My approach is good for experimenting and coming up with new things, but it's not good for teaching other people or replicating anything.


Yep I agree, once I have learned a procedure or task I can repeat the same task in a detailed way. Same with cooking. 


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## clem (Jun 10, 2017)

SJ types are good at repetitive paperwork too. They don't seem to dislike routine.


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## Glenda Gnome Starr (May 12, 2011)

clem said:


> SJ types are good at repetitive paperwork too. They don't seem to dislike routine.


Really? I need a team of SJ types to help me. I'll gladly weed out their gardens if I never have to do paperwork again. Paperwork gives me nightmare. I keep dreaming that it's mating and reproducing and I'm drowning in it.


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## Tyche (May 12, 2011)

Glenda Gnome Starr said:


> Really? I need a team of SJ types to help me. I'll gladly weed out their gardens if I never have to do paperwork again. Paperwork gives me nightmare. I keep dreaming that it's mating and reproducing and I'm drowning in it.


You've got a deal. I don't like paperwork but I loathe weeding.


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## Surreal Snake (Nov 17, 2009)

I don’t think SJs get enough accolades as Artists and Individuals as they should. In my experiences with them they’re generally very disciplined people who accomplish what they put their minds on. Intuitives tend to get a lot of the praise from MBTI. That in itself shows how weak the system really is.


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## kjdaniels (May 14, 2017)

Glenda Gnome Starr said:


> Really? I need a team of SJ types to help me. I'll gladly weed out their gardens if I never have to do paperwork again. Paperwork gives me nightmare. I keep dreaming that it's mating and reproducing and I'm drowning in it.


Lol I’d be willing to help you out. 


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

My ex-wife of 15 years was an ISTJ, (*8*w7, *6*w5, *3*w2 Sp/Sx) also a Si dom. 

For her, she had to get all the details right, in the right order, and they had to make sense to her internally. Her methods of organization were uniquely her own, and they did not evolve, despite the many new technologies that became available from 1995 until 2015. She needed a compelling reason to change anything, otherwise, she'd keep right on doing it the way she did it 10-20 years ago.

Her favorite sense was touch. Touch made things *real* for her. When we were in Athens Greece, She wanted to touch the Parthenon (I had to grab her before she got us arrested!). She touched me a lot. Being used to being on my own, I was not comfortable with this, at first. I have grown to a point now where I miss her touch more than anything on this earth, and there's little I wouldn't do to feel it once more. 

When she tells a story, she has to make sure she includes all the details of the story, whether they appear relevant or not to anyone else, is superfluous. I had to learn early on to bite my tongue and wait for her to catch up to me, because I was able to predict and guess where the story was going from the information she already provided (I didn't hold this as my being superior in any way, being the observer that I am, I spent a lot of years learning how she talked, how she thought, and how she told stories. She could still surprise me, but it was rare). 

She resisted as long as she could going to direct deposit for her paychecks (she had more than one job). She liked getting a paper check in the mail, that was "real" to her (It did not matter to her that it meant her pay was delayed by the USPS). Also, given the choice between using an ATM and interacting with a human teller, she'd pick the human every time. She liked the "personal touch." 

She was uncomfortable with the notion of an operating system with a "desktop" where her "files" and "folders" were. She couldn't "touch" them, thus they weren't fully "real" to her. She had to have a print out of anything she wrote, or she felt like it might suddenly "disappear" when her computer was off. Forget about the cloud! I spent hours trying to explain that one to her! She had actual filing cabinets filled with files of important papers because of this. 

We went traveling, our itinerary was organized into a 3-hole binder with multicolored folders: airplane, hotel, excursions, train tickets, etc. Each had their own folder, and she also had multi-colored tabs for everything as well. She could pull out the 4th day of a trip and tell me where we would be and what we were supposed to be doing, to the hour (And of course, she brought her laptop, and worked at least _one or two_ of her 5 jobs while we were there. That was scheduled too). 

She would get one of those big "desk blotter" calendars every year and use it as her master schedule, despite having an integrated calendar on her phone that could synch with her computer. It's _her_ system, and she would rather rely on paper than "digital ether."

She wasn't super OCD about cleaning, but she hated what she called"clutter." It basically meant when you left stuff laying around that didn't belong there, it should be put back where it belonged. She absolutely _loves _the smell of Clorox. To her, that meant things were clean. She would use *a lot* of it. A lot of our towels, washcloths, and sheets, were different colors because of all the bleach she used. I told her bleach wasn't good for colors, but she just couldn't shake the notion that it was the best thing for killing germs and getting things clean (okay, maybe she was a _little_ OCD about cleaning).

When she was organizing a big presentation, she'd literally cut and tape printed out paper into a collage of information. She would have page-after-page of taped together papers, quotations, and factual information, some of it would be vertical, and some were horizontal. She'd spread it out on the floor and type it all up into a finished product.

And another thing...the _very concept_ of intuition both baffles and fills her with dread. The idea of just _trusting your gut_ isn't something she can do without believing she's flying blind, deaf, and dumb. She is completely out of her depth when it comes to intuition (even though I believe we all use it, hers is just far more subconscious than most, she doesn't realize she's using it...ever. If she did, she'd flatly deny it and quickly (intuition) think up some facts to back up her action). 

She doesn't think of herself as being either smart, or creative, but the truth is she's both. She can effortlessly build a physical representation of an organizing framework that actually makes sense to her. If she can do this, she can also build a bridge so that other people can make sense of it too. She is one of the best organizers I've ever seen. She could probably organize chaos, if she put her mind to it!


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## Veni Vidi Vici (Jun 8, 2018)

The ISFJ friend I have has grit and eyes for details for sure. And she also has a “we will cross that bridge when we come to it” attitude and doesn’t particularly worry about any possible future scenarios until they become reality. I wonder if it has to do with low Ne and unvalued Ni.


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## ANAXEL (Feb 16, 2017)

Wisteria said:


> I can sometimes be sentimental, but i'd rather seek new experiences and reminisce the old ones. However the part about attention to details and recalling facts is somewhat like myself, according to others.
> 
> So if you've met a person like this, how did you recognise it? What were they good/bad at?


Just to clear confusion with descriptions:

* *





It's very common, especially for Si users, to be disoriented by the verbal attempts of MBTI to describe very complex, ineffable processes as they try to describe the processes with end results and not its actual traits.
Example: "Introverted Sensing people tend to be really good remembering past experiences with detail and are also very organized".
Ok, that's nice, but that's too vague. A LOT of people can be really good at remembering details and being organized.
This also happens with terms like "Sentimental", "Creative", "Logical".
Personality typology teaches us that everyone has a different perspective of the world, right? Well, that should clearly imply that we will all think of words and terms quite differently. When you and I hear and think "Sentimental" or "Creative", we will both recall different things that gave us the meaning of such words, so in the end, my version of, say, a "Logical" person may be very different from your understanding of one.

So when reading about the descriptions of types and functions, we have to read between the lines and understand WHY the people who wrote those descriptions chose whatever terms they did. This is why most MBTI enthusiasts tend to be N-types, as that's what Intuition facilitates. This, as it's been claimed before, is evidence that we need to revise how we understand and express this theory.

If we were to actually describe how the function works, we could say that Introverted Sensing doesn't necessarily make the person LIVE in the past but it gets a hold of it REALLY well. They have their world of memories very well catalogued. Every memory will serve as a reference point for the bettering and perfecting of future experiences.
Si-Ne works kind of like glue: It flows quickly and easily first, and then it just as quickly solidifies, regaining flow only when heated (stressed out).
As for Fe, this is actually the more organized Feeling function. 
People with Si-Fe (whichever order) may claim they're not super emotional because they often witness emotions being dealt out in what to them is a VERY nonsensical way (ENFP's and ESFP's, I love you, but yes, this is usually you).
Si will provide info on how things are and can be, Fe will be the running engine or focus.
While an ESFJ may claim they're people-focused with much pride, this term may confuse an ISFJ because they tend to avoid more people than they cater to. But I'd remind them that the mere fact that someone else's opinion on their life could cause anxiety, or how they're interested (some times morbidly) in how other people's social lives is evidence of how people-focused they are.




LONG Ne VERSION: 

* *




I've met plenty of ISFJ's.
They're an amazing combination of both evasive and highly supportive.
One of my best friends is an ISFJ. We'll call him Juice (I call him Juice).
How did I recognize him? In the beginning it wasn't quite clear. But here's the thing: I'm an ENTP. At least for me, bumping into ISFJ's is like seeing a hare or rabbit in the wilderness. Though shy and stealthy, they're always going to catch my attention and I'll end up running after them.
Confrontational? NOPE. Polite? Ha! More like fake (jk not jk)!
He's actually genuinely noble and means well, but seeing past his facade of cordiality is what would take him by surprise, and I would love doing that to him. Ne always does that (XXNP's). If they detect something is being hidden, they'll chase right after it! In exchange, what I'd enjoy from him was his defense/damage control mode he'd activate when I'd do (more often SAY) something that would trigger his Fe (For example, saying out loud "UGH! What do you mean the warehouse (we worked at the same warehouse) won't close on Memorial's day?! This is AIDS!" would really make him look around to see who heard that... I love that... It's cool, he likes it too).
I always thought that being utilitarian with your friends (using them) wasn't really moral.
Juice taught me this is not always the case.
I convinced him after some admonition to please tell me if I needed to dress better (my Inf. Si has never allowed me to accurately tell if my swag is looking poppin' or if I'm dressing like an idiot). He, SUPER NICELY, said yes.
From that time on, we have gone shopping together, and I have never looked any better than I do now.
His attention to detail, knowledge of correct color combinations, aesthetics, and much more are freaking professional standard. Unbeatable, really. And his excitement when I allow him to dress me up is something that baffles me but it's pretty cool to watch. I love this man.
I always try to support him in his dealings with others and try to explain to him why some people (including his own family members) behave the way they do.
As it's typical of ISFJ's, I'd really wish he'd speak out his mind more often, letting others know how he really feels and not guilt-trip himself so much. I wish he'd be more decisive too -- WHAT? An NP complaining about an SJ's indecisiveness? Well, there you go, I guess some of the descriptions from MBTI really ARE unreliable, huh?




SHORT Si VERSION:
My best friend is ISFJ. I knew he was ISFJ because of how polite yet evasive he was and also because of how well he dressed.
He's got a super sensitive sense of color, taste, and sound which leads him to be good in fashion and have a really good taste in music.
He needs to work on his confrontation skills and stand up for himself.


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## Handsome Dyke (Oct 4, 2012)

Llyralen said:


> My ISFJ secretary is excited by the idea of a vacation and loves showing me pictures of her past vacations and events-- so that would be something she's excited about enough to give up the comfort of daily consistency.


Assuming her anticipation of upcoming vacations is based on her positive experiences with previous vacations (which seems to be suggested by her enthusiastic photo sharing), this anecdote actually seems like a good example of Si.


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## TheDarknessInTheSnow (May 28, 2016)

I am satisfied with re-experiencing the familiar, but I wouldn't say I like or value routine..... I would appreciate repetition because I'd get so experienced at what I do, but I value exploration way too much........


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## Mammon (Jul 12, 2012)

Coburn said:


> Sentimentalism and nostalgia are not the domain of Si, though. Si has no correlation to specific emotions. There's a trend to ascribe certain feelings to Si, but it's a misunderstanding of Si.
> 
> As individuals we might attach emotions after the fact, but the association process itself is not emotionally-biased.


Than what is? Si does indeed not have a correlation to emotions _directly _but it does associate abstract sensory patterns with impressions. Ni does the same thing but in symbolical arch types.


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## Coburn (Sep 3, 2010)

Wisteria said:


> The author definitely had their own interpretation of it. She defines introverted sensing using inferior Ne. Isn't that what typology is though? They all have individual interpretations, so how do you know what Si inherently is? Each definition looks at different aspects of a function.


You can't interpret something from nothing. The thing you interpret is Si. Si is not dependent upon your interpretation to be what it is, the same way a fork doesn't stop being a fork because you repurpose it into a hair comb while singing about land mammals.

Let me present this another way: you recognize that Lenore is offering her own interpretation. But to recognize that, you must also recognize that there is some "other" thing being interpreted. In other words, her words are not the thing itself, but merely an individual perspective on it. 

There is a standard you are comparing her words to. If she wrote about Ne and called it Si, you wouldn't call that an interpretation. You would say she was wrong. Because Si is not completely open for interpretation. 

There is a baseline for what Si is. I am asserting that sentimentalism and nostalgia and specific emotions in general are not a part of that baseline but rather a personal interpretation of it.


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## Coburn (Sep 3, 2010)

Mammon said:


> Than what is? Si does indeed not have a correlation to emotions _directly _but it does associate abstract sensory patterns with impressions. Ni does the same thing but in symbolical arch types.


I'm not sure your question. 

I don't disagree with your explanation of Si or Ni, FWIW.


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## Mammon (Jul 12, 2012)

Coburn said:


> I'm not sure your question.
> 
> I don't disagree with your explanation of Si or Ni, FWIW.


Nevermind, I misread biased as based. Happens every now and then.


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## L P (May 30, 2017)

TheDarknessInTheSnow said:


> I am satisfied with re-experiencing the familiar, but I wouldn't say I like or value routine..... I would appreciate repetition because I'd get so experienced at what I do, but I value exploration way too much........


I mean, this just sounds like inf Ne. The fact that you value exploration a ton.

My ISFJ cousin loves repetition when it comes to music, but hes's constantly searching for new artists all the time, exploring what's out there, and he loves new ideas. I don't think people hate their inf function, they just....idk, have a hard time and a bunch of insecurity around it. (ime of course, before someone chops my head off lol)

Also @Wisteria, I spoke to my friend today and she mentioned in her own words "I asscociate coffee with an emotional repsonse, it reminds me of my parents, it's like linked to a memory." And she's ISFJ as well. This lines up with what you said about Si. And it sounds very Si-Fe, and perhaps why @Coburn doesn't agree. You probably knew that though so sorry if I stated the obvious, but yea it seems to line up.

I think being sentimental is perhaps Si combined with an F function.


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## L P (May 30, 2017)

Coburn said:


> The description is accurate, but most people's read of it won't be.
> 
> Si is Ni, but for the concrete.* The comparisons Si draws are guided by an internal logic that is not obvious at first sight* (or explanation).
> 
> I'm going to go out on a small, frustrated, old-man rant here: we're a lot more creative and comfortable with the inexact and unpredictable than pretty much everyone on here who buys into MBTI thinks.


This sounds more like ESTJ Si, with a bit of unconscious Ti.


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## TheDarknessInTheSnow (May 28, 2016)

Lord Pixel said:


> I mean, this just sounds like inf Ne. The fact that you value exploration a ton.
> 
> My ISFJ cousin loves repetition when it comes to music, but hes's constantly searching for new artists all the time, exploring what's out there, and he loves new ideas. I don't think people hate their inf function, they just....idk, have a hard time and a bunch of insecurity around it. (ime of course, before someone chops my head off lol)


I do that too!


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## Coburn (Sep 3, 2010)

Lord Pixel said:


> This sounds more like ESTJ Si, with a bit of unconscious Ti.


What makes it specifically "ESTJ" Si?

I expect it should sound somewhat similar to Ti in some regards, as Si is also an irrational function.


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## Coburn (Sep 3, 2010)

Lord Pixel said:


> Also Wisteria, I spoke to my friend today and she mentioned in her own words "I asscociate coffee with an emotional repsonse, it reminds me of my parents, it's like linked to a memory." And she's ISFJ as well. This lines up with what you said about Si. And it sounds very Si-Fe, and perhaps why @Coburn doesn't agree. You probably knew that though so sorry if I stated the obvious, but yea it seems to line up.
> 
> I think being sentimental is perhaps Si combined with an F function.


I mean, I also experience this/things like this.


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## L P (May 30, 2017)

Coburn said:


> What makes it specifically "ESTJ" Si?
> 
> I expect it should sound somewhat similar to Ti in some regards, as Si is also an irrational function.


Ti is a rational function though.

And here is the long version of why it's more ESTJ Si.


* *




Reasons for it being ESTJ Si are more detailed. I can link a video right here for you to check out.
But like you say Si is not linked to emotions, neither is it linked to logic. Essientially your Si is probably colored by your Te giving it a logical bent. And also this video if there is any truth to it would suggest that you use your shadow function Ti, through Si, which lines up with what you said.






The order of the shadow functions starts at: 2:16 and is brief.

And if that's the case then ESTJ uses subconscious Ti alongside their Si, which lines up with what you said about Si.


Coburn said:


> * The comparisons Si draws are guided by an internal logic that is not obvious at first sight* (or explanation).


My own Si is not linked to logic, my own Si (internal processing of sensory experiences, at least as I understand it.) is almost always projecting into the future events of the past reoccuring. Like my Si says "ABC has = D in the past, so if I see ABC in the future it should = D just as it did in the past.) Searching the past to make sense of the future has been mostly an Si experience for myself, and that lines up with subconscious Ni being used alongside Si.

Anyway that's my hypothesis as to why the way you see Si comparisons there differs from Wisterias, besides the fact that you are Te-Si and she is Si-Fe.


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## Wisteria (Apr 2, 2015)

Coburn said:


> You can't interpret something from nothing. The thing you interpret is Si. Si is not dependent upon your interpretation to be what it is, the same way a fork doesn't stop being a fork because you repurpose it into a hair comb while singing about land mammals.
> 
> Let me present this another way: you recognize that Lenore is offering her own interpretation. But to recognize that, you must also recognize that there is some "other" thing being interpreted. In other words, her words are not the thing itself, but merely an individual perspective on it.
> 
> ...


The question is, how do you know that what I described was merely an interpretation of Si, and that it's different from the baseline? Is the baseline you're referring to the original definition of Si? (Jung)


Lord Pixel said:


> Also @Wisteria, I spoke to my friend today and she mentioned in her own words "I asscociate coffee with an emotional repsonse, it reminds me of my parents, it's like linked to a memory." And she's ISFJ as well. This lines up with what you said about Si. And it sounds very Si-Fe, and perhaps why @Coburn doesn't agree. You probably knew that though so sorry if I stated the obvious, but yea it seems to line up.
> 
> I think being sentimental is perhaps Si combined with an F function.


I thought it be more characteristic of SFJ types as well. Perhaps it's not though. That's pretty much what I meant though yeah, it's like associating certain objects with a memory. The description I posted earlier also used an example like that about striped tabby cats holding a special meaning for the Si type. I always find comfort in rain for example, because it's one of my earliest memories. I can think of a lot of examples. I'll remember that certain foods give me food poisoning therefore remember not to under cook it again, or look for the signs that it will, by recalling the appearance, texture, etc. In socionics Si is associated with bodily sensations, so when I get sick I always know the cause if it has happen to me before. I remember what the sensation felt like. 



Coburn said:


> I mean, I also experience this/things like this.


Do you think that it's not Si, or just not only what Si is about?


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## L P (May 30, 2017)

Wisteria said:


> T
> 
> I thought it be more characteristic of SFJ types as well. Perhaps it's not though. That's pretty much what I meant though yeah, it's like associating certain objects with a memory. The description I posted earlier also used an example like that about striped tabby cats holding a special meaning for the Si type. I always find comfort in rain for example, because it's one of my earliest memories. I can think of a lot of examples. I'll remember that certain foods give me food poisoning therefore remember not to under cook it again, or look for the signs that it will, by recalling the appearance, texture, etc. In socionics Si is associated with bodily sensations, *so when I get sick I always know the cause if it has happen to me before*. I remember what the sensation felt like.


Hm, what you say is interesting. I experience Si in these sort of ways as well, I can also guess what has made me sick if it has happened before, but I'm not as sure perhaps about it, maybe that's like an Si first thing to be more in-tune with it. And yea I associate objects, smells, anything really with some memory if experiencing it before. So yea if anything I think these things are in the ball park of what Si is, but perhaps tainted by other functions.


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## Wisteria (Apr 2, 2015)

Lord Pixel said:


> Hm, what you say is interesting. I experience Si in these sort of ways as well, I can also guess what has made me sick if it has happened before, but I'm not as sure perhaps about it, maybe that's like an Si first thing to be more in-tune with it. And yea I associate objects, smells, anything really with some memory if experiencing it before. So yea if anything I think these things are in the ball park of what Si is, but perhaps tainted by other functions.


That's kinda the main issue I have with Si. Some definitions of the function sounds like something everyone does - comparing past with the present, have a strong memory of past experiences, using factual information, etc. Everyone uses experience and gains this through senses, so the descriptions of Si and even Sensing seem almost shallow in a way.

Here's a few examples of those kinds of descriptions;



> Extraverted Sensing is what happens when you pay attention to what your 5 senses (touch, taste, smell, hearing, seeing) are telling you about the real world. It's a real time process that is happening now.
> So if you pay attention to a sound coming from a bird just outside your door, that's your brain using it's extraverted sensing function to pay attention to the sound.
> Introverted Sensing is when you remember the sound of a bird that you heard last week. Because you are paying attention to the memory of it in your mind, rather than the real live event.





Cognitiveprocesses said:


> Introverted Sensing often involves storing data and information, then comparing and contrasting the current situation with similar ones.
> The immediate experience or words are instantly linked with the prior experiences, and we register a similarity or a difference—for example, noticing that some food doesn't taste the same or is saltier than it usually is.
> Introverted Sensing is also operating when we see someone who reminds us of someone else.
> Sometimes a feeling associated with the recalled image comes into our awareness along with the information itself. Then the image can be so strong, our body responds as if reliving the experience. The process also involves reviewing the past to draw on the lessons of history, hindsight, and experience.


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## L P (May 30, 2017)

Wisteria said:


> That's kinda the main issue I have with Si. Some definitions of the function sounds like something everyone does - comparing past with the present, have a strong memory of past experiences, using factual information, etc. Everyone uses experience and gains this through senses, so the descriptions of Si and even Sensing seem almost shallow in a way.
> 
> Here's a few examples of those kinds of descriptions;


I have no issue with those definitions, but perhaps that's because Si is much simpler for me, I imagine 4D Si isn't as simple as that.

Also i don't think everyone does do what you say. It is easier to think everyone does what your dom function does because it's how we see life and we find it hard to imagine a life where people do not do something that colors every aspect of our own lives. We are like fish but cannot see the water we swim in.


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## Coburn (Sep 3, 2010)

Wisteria said:


> The question is, how do you know that what I described was merely an interpretation of Si, and that it's different from the baseline? Is the baseline you're referring to the original definition of Si? (Jung)


Easy: does it apply to everyone with Si, without exception? 

If you think your description is inherent to Si, then everyone with Si should experience exactly what you describe. Conditionals such as stack, life experiences, etc don't matter because it's no longer personal.

At that point, you'd also be able to use it as a 100% surefire way of determining someone's type.



> I thought it be more characteristic of SFJ types as well. Perhaps it's not though. That's pretty much what I meant though yeah, it's like associating certain objects with a memory. The description I posted earlier also used an example like that about striped tabby cats holding a special meaning for the Si type. I always find comfort in rain for example, because it's one of my earliest memories. I can think of a lot of examples. I'll remember that certain foods give me food poisoning therefore remember not to under cook it again, or look for the signs that it will, by recalling the appearance, texture, etc. In socionics Si is associated with bodily sensations, so when I get sick I always know the cause if it has happen to me before. I remember what the sensation felt like.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you think that it's not Si, or just not only what Si is about?


The latter, although I don't think a person must experience that in order to have Si. Is it common in Si users? Perhaps. Is it universal to them? No.


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## CowardlyPal (Jul 9, 2018)

All round pretty good. I have more SJ friends than any other combination, so we must get along reasonably well, even if statistically that was pretty likely.
My dad's an ESFJ. We're pretty close. He still pays my mobile bill for some reason so yeah we're good.
Two of my closest friends are an ESTJ and an ISTJ; they're pretty cool. ESTJ organises my life a lot, and ISTJ is always online for Civ V.

So yeh, cool beans.


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## HBchips (Oct 1, 2018)

I have quite a few SJs in my life-- I have an ISTJ and ISFJ friend, an ISTJ mom, ISFJ dad, ISFJ younger sister, and ESTJ grandmother (a lot, I know).

As for my SJ friends, I love them to death-- they're extremely loyal and stick by your side even when everyone leaves, and have a certain deadpan/exasperated aura about them that makes them fantastic to tease (but they secretly love you). One of them is a complete Si-dom-- we were in a game development class together, and in a good presentation of Ne vs Si she said she had the capabilities to put ideas into action if she could only come up with some, whilst I had a full list in less than 5 minutes but with little idea how to start. She's quiet, hardworking, and methodical, often coming out at the top of the class. She's a very standard, stereotypical ISFJ, but I don't think that makes her dull or boring. In fact, both of the ISxJs I know are very chilled out-- while not idea generators, they've been through quite a bit and unlike the Si-dom stereotype belief, are the most openminded and simultaneously sensible people I know. The ISTJ friend I know is the last thing but boring and textbook-- she's had a difficult past and is strong and knows what she wants for herself. She's actually quite disorganized and her Te isn't prominent in academics like one would expect-- I've often had to shoulder most of the academic work when we work in group projects. However, she's a great listener and provides a sensible, learned, and honest advice to help me through hard times when I find it difficult to see things objectively.

My SJ family, on the other hand, I clash with quite a bit. Both my mother and grandmother have a prominent Te that often comes to nit-pick at my belongings and morals, unwelcome, nearly every day, living underneath the same roof. All of them are proud of their origins, religion, and traditions (Si) and are generally unreceptive to change and disorganization. It's often difficult to talk to them--not just because of our functions stack or primarily because they are Si-doms, but because of their close-mindedness-- or come to any conclusion without bitterness exchanged in between.


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## L P (May 30, 2017)

HBchips said:


> I have quite a few SJs in my life-- I have an ISTJ and ISFJ friend, an ISTJ mom, ISFJ dad, ISFJ younger sister, and ESTJ grandmother (a lot, I know).
> 
> As for my SJ friends, I love them to death-- they're extremely loyal and stick by your side even when everyone leaves, *and have a certain deadpan/exasperated aura about them that makes them fantastic to tease *(but they secretly love you). One of them is a complete Si-dom-- we were in a game development class together, and in a good presentation of Ne vs Si she said she had the capabilities to put ideas into action if she could only come up with some, whilst I had a full list in less than 5 minutes but with little idea how to start. She's quiet, hardworking, and methodical, often coming out at the top of the class. She's a very standard, stereotypical ISFJ, but I don't think that makes her dull or boring. In fact, both of the ISxJs I know are very chilled out-- while not idea generators, they've been through quite a bit and unlike the Si-dom stereotype belief, are the most openminded and simultaneously sensible people I know. The ISTJ friend I know is the last thing but boring and textbook-- she's had a difficult past and is strong and knows what she wants for herself. She's actually quite disorganized and her Te isn't prominent in academics like one would expect-- I've often had to shoulder most of the academic work when we work in group projects. However, she's a great listener and provides a sensible, learned, and honest advice to help me through hard times when I find it difficult to see things objectively.
> 
> My SJ family, on the other hand, I clash with quite a bit. Both my mother and grandmother have a prominent Te that often comes to nit-pick at my belongings and morals, unwelcome, nearly every day, living underneath the same roof. All of them are proud of their origins, religion, and traditions (Si) and are generally unreceptive to change and disorganization. It's often difficult to talk to them--not just because of our functions stack or primarily because they are Si-doms, but because of their close-mindedness-- or come to any conclusion without bitterness exchanged in between.


YES! You said it better than I could. I had a whole post that tried to describe what you said in 1 sentence.


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## HBchips (Oct 1, 2018)

Lord Pixel said:


> YES! You said it better than I could. I had a whole post that tried to describe what you said in 1 sentence.


Haha, really? I think that ISxJ deadpan-ness is pretty great in general. They'll listen to any weird stuff that comes out of my mouth and tell me when I'm being an idiot too (and its so cute when they actually get flustered when I tease them heh).


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