# Psychiatry/Psychology are a crock + Musings on Gregory House!



## FreeSpirit (Jun 1, 2011)

I actually posted this in spam world, absurd stream of consciousness,
thinking it was too bizarre to be posted anywhere else. But after a
few days had passed, I realized I would welcome some thoughts on it!
So here I am, reposting for the enjoyment of all!


*Psychiatry and psychology are a crock*.

But upon researching the subject, I was surprised to find how much
of the criteria for Borderline Personality Disorder the character
Gregory House presents behaviorally. Borderline Personality Disorder DSM IV Diagnosis

This is amusing to me, because the character House is generally seen as
a very strong-willed person, while people diagnosed with BPD are stigmatized,
seen as 'weak' people. They are commonly viewed as the clingy, irrational,
hostile 'pariahs' of mental health care, who shrinks will sometimes even refuse
to treat just based on their diagnosis. Borderline Personality Disorder Gains Rwspect
This reminds me of *House: Season 6*, to a T.

Also, more than 70% of people diagnosed with BPD are women Borderline Personality Disorder Resource Center, due to sexism in mental health care:

"Clinician bias:

One study found that when 52 professionals from a mental health agency in 
California assessed patient vignettes, they were unable to accurately diagnose 
the presence of BPD in males_--even though the symptoms were identical to 
__those in vignettes of females_. 

This results, in part, in the way anger is interpreted differently depending upon 
whether it comes from a man or a woman. "For the most part, when women 
are angry they are classified as irrational, frenzied, or too emotional," says 
therapist Andrea Brandt. "On the other hand, men's anger is sometimes 
recognized as strength and aggressiveness."
Borderline Personality Disorder in Men Overlooked, Misdiagnosed | Psychology Today

I conclude this sexism is the only reason I haven't heard some shrink try to
explain how Gregory House has BPD. But considering that Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader has been diagnosed with it: Borderline personality disorder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (go down to the Society and Culture: Film and Television portion)- Greg House's diagnosis can't be far behind. hahahahahahaha

BTW: Borderline Personality Disorder is being referred to as Emotional Regulation Disorder
in some places nowadays Borderline Personality Disorder Today, in case you were thinking of looking it up.

*LAUGHS UPROARIOUSLY*


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## Niccolo Machiavelli (Aug 7, 2011)

House, in no way, shape, or form, has Borderline Personality Disorder. His behavior doesn't even begin to resemble the behavior of somebody with BPD. Just look at the criteria listed on your one link...

* 1. frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment. **Note: Do not include suicidal or self-mutilating behavior covered in Criterion 5.*

House NEVER makes frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment. Even when those closest to him abandon him, his attitude goes between "Meh." and a very modest effort to get them back. People with BPD will panic and "freak out" at the SLIGHTEST hint of abandonment. For example, you tell your BPD girlfriend "Sorry, I can't make it, I have to work." She may very well become completely enraged over this perceived abandonment. House doesn't fit this at all.

* 2. a pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation. *



House doesn't fit this either. He has been fairly consistent in his relationships. Nor does he ever idealize anybody. At best, you could argue that he SORTA devalues people to a very small degree. People with BPD go from relationship to relationship, and they really do idealize and devalue people. One minute you're a living god in their eyes and they love you completely, the next minute (after perceived abandonment usually) you are the spawn of Satan and they hate you with all their being. This doesn't describe House at all.



*3. identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self. *



House has been very consistent in his identity. 



*4. impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., spending, sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, binge eating). **Note: Do not include suicidal or self-mutilating behavior covered in Criterion 5. *



He is not impulsive in any of these areas. He does engage in some of these types of behaviors in a way that could be described as impulsive, but he is always calculating and rational. For example, he'll get Wilson to lend him money to objectively measure their friendship, which he will then blow to test Wilson. Or he'll hire prostitutes to avoid having relationships. People with BPD will literally act like "crazy" people on many of these areas, sleeping with anybody, driving completely recklessly, etc.



*5. recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, or threats, or self-mutilating behavior *



He doesn't do any of these things. When he does do things that could be considered "suicidal" it isn't to commit suicide, it is because of some type of experiment or whatever. Like the time he electrocuted himself to see if there was an "other side."



*6. affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability, or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days). *



Affective instability (ie emotional instability) doesn't describe House at all. He is almost always in the same mood, unless he is angry. And when he is angry, he usually has a good reason to be angry.



*7. chronic feelings of emptiness *



This one is debatable. Most people in his position would in fact feel empty. But he doesn't seem to feel empty at all, as long as he has his "puzzles."



*8. inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights) *



Not at all. As I point out, on the rare occasion that he is angry, he has a good reason to be. And his anger isn't even that bad (minus the last episode of this previous season where he drove a car into Cuddy's house, but many people sided with him there for all that she put him through :laughing.



*9. transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative symptoms*


Nope.








You're right, BPD (and Histrionic Personality Disorder for that matter) are most commonly diagnosed in females. Just as Narcissistic Personality Disorder and Antisocial Personality Disorder are most commonly diagnosed in males. And many would make the argument that it is because they are more common in said genders. Which of course leads to an inherent bias. But House definitely doesn't have BPD.


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## Niccolo Machiavelli (Aug 7, 2011)

Before I go on, let me make this clear, *I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT HOUSE HAS ANY PERSONALITY DISORDER!* He, _like most people_, has some traits here and there, but not nearly enough to be diagnosed with a personality disorder. To describe the personality disorder traits that he has, this will include personality disorders that are no longer listed. I won't list them all, just the ones that fit him at least a bit...

*Antisocial Personality Disorder*: This would, in my opinion, be the best match for him. He is reckless, impulsive, defies social norms (including the law), he lies to get his way, he is often irresponsible and he often lacks remorse. With that said, I don't think he has this either. For one thing, he doesn't completely lack empathy. And while he can be superficially charming, he very rarely is. Psychopaths ALWAYS have a mask on, they are like social chameleons. He is only nice to people when he wants to win a bet. 

*Avoidant Personality Disorder*: While he does avoid people to a large degree, it isn't for the same reason that people with Avoidant Personality Disorder do it. They do it because of really low self-esteem that makes them afraid that others are constantly judging them in a negative way. He does it because he simply doesn't like people all that much.

*Depressive Personality Disorder* (No longer listed): He is usually pessimistic, and he is usually brooding. But his life sucks and he is in constant pain, so that is easily explained. Add in the fact that he is a realist who doesn't like sunshine being blown up his ass, and you can easily discard this diagnosis. 

*Histrionic Personality Disorder*: He does like making a spectacle of himself, but not in the way that a person with HPD does. They literally feel uncomfortable if they are not the center of attention. He is perfectly fine being alone most of the time. 

*Narcissistic Personality Disorder* (No longer listed, because the people that made the DSM are morons and think that it should be listed as a form of psychopathy): He is quite arrogant, but not in a NPD way. He doesn't have delusions of grandeur and think that he is the greatest person in the world. His arrogance comes from his intelligence and history of being right a lot. 

*Obsessive-Compulsive Personality Disorder*: He does like perfection and control, but only in some areas. Usually in the area of saving lives. Otherwise he is a disorganized slob.

*Paranoid Personality Disorder*: He is often suspicious of others and their motives. However, he isn't anywhere near the disorder level.

*Passive-Aggressive Personality Disorder *(No longer listed since most Personality Disorders have Passive-Aggressive behavior): He is the walking definition of passive-aggressive. From his argumentative nature to his criticism of authority figures. I wouldn't say he has this disorder though, due to the fact that when he does these things it is for a good reason. He isn't just defying authority for the sake of defying authority, he does it because he wants to save a patient's life.

*Sadistic Personality Disorder* (No longer listed): He does love publicly humiliating people, but this isn't for the sake of humiliating people. It is a combination of arrogance and keeping people away. 

*Schizoid Personality Disorder*: This would be another good fit, but I don't think he has it either. He has a long lasting and close friendship with Wilson, he eventually comes to care about others, and he hires prostitutes for sex. 

*Schizotypal Personality Disorder*: He is quite eccentric, but nowhere near the level of Schizotypal Personality Disorder. Also he lacks most of the other criteria. 

*Self-Defeating Personality Disorder* AKA _Masochistic Personality Disorder_ (No longer listed due to political pressure, which is of course even more evidence that the social sciences are a fucking joke. Could you imagine the concept of gravity being removed from Physics textbooks because of political pressure?): He does sacrifice himself in a lot of ways. From letting them operate on his brain to figure out what was wrong with Amber, to electrocuting himself to see if there is an "other side." However he doesn't have this disorder either. These are rare things and he has a reason for doing them. He doesn't hurt himself because he can't stand success. If anything, Dr. Cameron would be a decent fit for this particular disorder.


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## FreeSpirit (Jun 1, 2011)

Niccolo Machiavelli said:


> House, in no way, shape, or form, has Borderline Personality Disorder. His behavior doesn't even begin to resemble the behavior of somebody with BPD. Just look at the criteria listed on your one link...
> 
> * 1. frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment. **Note: Do not include suicidal or self-mutilating behavior covered in Criterion 5.*
> 
> ...


That's not true. He affects a "Meh" attitude and then sends a private investigator 
after them, hallucinates them, or goes to return a brush to them and drives his car 
into their house when he realizes they are moving on from him.

Whenever he thinks someone from his team is about to leave, he tries to manipulate 
them into staying. And then, after they have left, into coming back. He picks 13 up from 
prison, having continuously followed up on her since she left, and coerces her into coming 
back. He keeps tabs on everyone around him in order to control whether they
can leave him or not and how.



Niccolo Machiavelli said:


> * 2. a pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation. *
> 
> House doesn't fit this either. He has been fairly consistent in his relationships. Nor does he ever idealize anybody. At best, you could argue that he SORTA devalues people to a very small degree. People with BPD go from relationship to relationship, and they really do idealize and devalue people. One minute you're a living god in their eyes and they love you completely, the next minute (after perceived abandonment usually) you are the spawn of Satan and they hate you with all their being. This doesn't describe House at all.


This one I also think he doesn't have- but only because devalues everyone on 
purpose, as if he is afraid to let them have value.



Niccolo Machiavelli said:


> *3. identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self. *
> 
> House has been very consistent in his identity.


This identity disturbance also refers to self-loathing. Self loathing as 'unstable self image' 
(not stable in how they feel about themselves). The character House is a self-loathing 
character, in my opinion. It is also mentioned in this link that people with BPD will often view themselves as 'evil'. Also fits House.



Niccolo Machiavelli said:


> *4. impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., spending, sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, binge eating). **Note: Do not include suicidal or self-mutilating behavior covered in Criterion 5. *
> 
> He is not impulsive in any of these areas. He does engage in some of these types of behaviors in a way that could be described as impulsive, but he is always calculating and rational. For example, he'll get Wilson to lend him money to objectively measure their friendship, which he will then blow to test Wilson. Or he'll hire prostitutes to avoid having relationships. People with BPD will literally act like "crazy" people on many of these areas, sleeping with anybody, driving completely recklessly, etc.


He has been impulsive with drugs and behavior since episode 1. Popping pills like candy, 
in front of everyone. OTB gambling. Buys a motorcycle, rides in the snow. Self-destructively 
fights with authority figures. Gets in a huge monster truck and drives like a maniac with his 
whole team in it (season 7). Visits prostitutes counts, I'm sorry. Gets in a bar fight on purpose.




Niccolo Machiavelli said:


> *5. recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, or threats, or self-mutilating behavior *
> 
> He doesn't do any of these things. When he does do things that could be considered "suicidal" it isn't to commit suicide, it is because of some type of experiment or whatever. Like the time he electrocuted himself to see if there was an "other side."


electrocution= suicidal gesture. Cuts himself and smashes his own hand that he tells Wilson 
not to bandage too well so he can smack it up against the wall when he needs another pain 
dose. Also, does surgery on himself in the bath tub even though he is a doctor at a hospital 
and that is entirely unnecessary- unnecessarily takes a ton of pills to help his memory 
(bus accident- Amber episode). Jumps off a balcony. Takes experimental rat drugs. Tells a 
hospital he has cancer so they will cut into his brain to reduce his pain..... all of these either self-mutilating or suicidal gestures.



Niccolo Machiavelli said:


> *6. affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability, or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days). *
> 
> Affective instability (ie emotional instability) doesn't describe House at all. He is almost always in the same mood, unless he is angry. And when he is angry, he usually has a good reason to be angry.


Affective instability = will put his patients through crazy things just to escape boredom, 
which also seems to be linked to some perpetual unhappiness on his part (dysphoria= 
depression. Seems obvious. Irritability is obvious. Anxiety? How about when he thought 
Cuddy might have cancer? Pretended everything was gravy and popped pills.) 

Also, his leg pain seems to be partially psychosomatic. It will get worse when he is in 
emotional pain, after which he commonly acts out in the show and causes everyone to 
wonder if he can function properly. This is unstable and moody.



Niccolo Machiavelli said:


> *7. chronic feelings of emptiness *
> 
> This one is debatable. Most people in his position would in fact feel empty. But he doesn't seem to feel empty at all, as long as he has his "puzzles."


This one is subjective to me. But I vote for he seems to feel empty. All those damn 
montages with soulful songs playing while he looks lonely in his apartment is why.



Niccolo Machiavelli said:


> *8. inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights) *
> 
> Not at all. As I point out, on the rare occasion that he is angry, he has a good reason to be. And his anger isn't even that bad (minus the last episode of this previous season where he drove a car into Cuddy's house, but many people sided with him there for all that she put him through :laughing.


He responds inappropriately all the time in anger...punched Chase for chrissakes. Couldn't 
be quiet in court even though he knew it was his job. Or with the cop, for that matter. Again, 
bar fight he started on purpose. 

And I'm not saying I didn't understand a bit when he drove his car through her house. But 
COME ON! A *CAR*?!!!



Niccolo Machiavelli said:


> *9. transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative symptoms*
> 
> Nope.


I don't think he's paranoid, either. But his Amber hallucination was a bit dissociative. 
She tried to kill Chase. But she _was *him*_. If that ain't dissociative..... (you remember, the strawberries....)



Niccolo Machiavelli said:


> You're right, BPD (and Histrionic Personality Disorder for that matter) are most commonly diagnosed in females. Just as Narcissistic Personality Disorder and Antisocial Personality Disorder are most commonly diagnosed in males. And many would make the argument that it is because they are more common in said genders. Which of course leads to an inherent bias. But House definitely doesn't have BPD.


He doesn't have BPD because he isn't real. But other than THAT, still looks to me like he
could 'represent'. Remember, the person needs only have 5 or more of the described symptoms
to be diagnosed.

And I don't think BPD is even real. I'm just talking about this because it amuses me, no
shit. I really do think psychiatry/psychology is all nonsense.


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## Niccolo Machiavelli (Aug 7, 2011)

Wow! Nice in depth reply! :wink:



FreeSpirit said:


> That's not true. He affects a "Meh" attitude and then sends a private investigator
> after them, hallucinates them, or goes to return a brush to them and drives his car
> into their house when he realizes they are moving on from him.
> 
> ...


True enough.



FreeSpirit said:


> This identity disturbance also refers to self-loathing. Self loathing as 'unstable self image'
> (not stable in how they feel about themselves). The character House is a self-loathing
> character, in my opinion. It is also mentioned in this link that people with BPD will often view themselves as 'evil'. Also fits House.


I think Wilson said it best when he said to him, "You don't like yourself, but you admire yourself." I also don't think that House considers himself evil. 



FreeSpirit said:


> He has been impulsive with drugs and behavior since episode 1. Popping pills like candy,
> in front of everyone. OTB gambling. Buys a motorcycle, rides in the snow. Self-destructively
> fights with authority figures. Gets in a huge monster truck and drives like a maniac with his
> whole team in it (season 7). Visits prostitutes counts, I'm sorry. Gets in a bar fight on purpose.


You're right about the pills. The gambling is fairly rare and usually quite small amounts rather than being anywhere near a "gambling addiction" level. Also as I point out before, you have to look at his motive and the context. There is nothing impulsive about House having hookers over, he is a single guy who pushes away relationships. From his perspective, it is perfectly rational. Also he isn't some crazed sex addict. And on the rare occasion that he does do something truly impulsive, it is because he is fed up and/or high. People with BPD are all over the place, their actions are VERY impulsive nearly all the time, whereas House is usually calculating. He is impulsive sometimes, but very rarely in the grand scheme of things.



FreeSpirit said:


> electrocution= suicidal gesture. Cuts himself and smashes his own hand that he tells Wilson
> not to bandage too well so he can smack it up against the wall when he needs another pain
> dose. Also, does surgery on himself in the bath tub even though he is a doctor at a hospital
> and that is entirely unnecessary- unnecessarily takes a ton of pills to help his memory
> ...


That goes back to the motive. He wasn't electrocuting himself because he wanted to die, nor did he do it for attention. He did it to find out if there was an "other side." As for the bandage thing, if I recall correctly, he was in pain and couldn't have Vicodin so he was hurting himself to release natural pain killers into his system. Ultimately this whole thing comes back to motivation. He does do things that on the surface appear to be suicidal and the like, but he is never doing it with the motivation of killing himself or getting attention by appearing suicidal. He does do things that are self-mutilating, but not because he wants to hurt himself, usually for the opposite reason (like the brain surgery). Him operating on himself wasn't because he wanted to hurt himself, it is just him being a stubborn ass. 



FreeSpirit said:


> Affective instability = will put his patients through crazy things just to escape boredom,
> which also seems to be linked to some perpetual unhappiness on his part (dysphoria=
> depression. Seems obvious. Irritability is obvious. Anxiety? How about when he thought
> Cuddy might have cancer? Pretended everything was gravy and popped pills.)
> ...


The guy has issues, no denying that. :laughing: Many of them emotional. But affective stability, as discussed when mentioning Borderline Personality Disorder or Histrionic Personality Disorder, deals strictly with changing emotions very quickly and for no apparent reason. These people will literally be crying their eyes out one minute, laughing the next, angry 30 seconds later, calm as can be 20 seconds after that, etc. House doesn't do that at all.



FreeSpirit said:


> This one is subjective to me. But I vote for he seems to feel empty. All those damn
> montages with soulful songs playing while he looks lonely in his apartment is why.


Very subjective indeed, unless one of us can read minds. I can't, can you? :laughing:



FreeSpirit said:


> He responds inappropriately all the time in anger...punched Chase for chrissakes. Couldn't
> be quiet in court even though he knew it was his job. Or with the cop, for that matter. Again,
> bar fight he started on purpose.
> 
> ...


Chase punched him in the face once too, keep in mind (I don't recall who punched who first). However the key work here is "inappropriate." His anger is always appropriate, when he is angry, it always has a reason. People with BPD don't always have a reason when they go into their "mini-psychotic episodes." They will literally kill you, for no reason that you could ever figure out. 



FreeSpirit said:


> I don't think he's paranoid, either. But his Amber hallucination was a bit dissociative.
> She tried to kill Chase. But she _was *him*_. If that ain't dissociative..... (you remember, the strawberries....)


I remember the strawberries, LOVED the bachelor party. :laughing: I got that song on my iPod. :laughing: But as I recall, that was from drugs, no? 



FreeSpirit said:


> He doesn't have BPD because he isn't real. But other than THAT, still looks to me like he
> could 'represent'. Remember, the person needs only have 5 or more of the described symptoms
> to be diagnosed.


There is a lot more to it than just having x amount of symptoms. There is motivation, context, and several other factors relevant to each disorder. I for example have enough symptoms to be diagnosed with Antisocial Personality Disorder, and I had a lot more when I was younger (too young to be diagnosed). However I'm not a psychopath/sociopath. A lot of the key elements are missing, such as a complete lack of empathy, or the fact that I don't wear social masks 24/7 to appear "normal" along with many common childhood factors like torturing small animals. Ergo, despite the fact that I fit the symptoms, no competent therapist would diagnose me with it.


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## FreeSpirit (Jun 1, 2011)

Niccolo Machiavelli said:


> I think Wilson said it best when he said to him, "You don't like yourself, but you admire yourself." I also don't think that House considers himself evil.


Well, if not evil- he know he ain't Santa Claus!



Niccolo Machiavelli said:


> You're right about the pills. The gambling is fairly rare and usually quite small amounts rather than being anywhere near a "gambling addiction" level. Also as I point out before, you have to look at his motive and the context. There is nothing impulsive about House having hookers over, he is a single guy who pushes away relationships. From his perspective, it is perfectly rational. Also he isn't some crazed sex addict. And on the rare occasion that he does do something truly impulsive, it is because he is fed up and/or high. People with BPD are all over the place, their actions are VERY impulsive nearly all the time, whereas House is usually calculating. He is impulsive sometimes, but very rarely in the grand scheme of things.


About this part, now I just want to talk about the BPD diagnosis. Knew someone who was 
diagnosed (they were too young to be, but was diagnosed anyway. damned shysters) 
anyway, this person was only occasionally wild. Yes, it was annoying when they were 
(they would do things like just leave the house in the middle of the night and hours later 
you would find that they had ran 10 miles up the street)- but on the whole she was just a
bit of an angry person with a really cynical attitude. 

This is why I decided House would work as a candidate- because they are already 
diagnosing people who aren't raving.

Agreed that House is not raving.



Niccolo Machiavelli said:


> That goes back to the motive. He wasn't electrocuting himself because he wanted to die, nor did he do it for attention. He did it to find out if there was an "other side." As for the bandage thing, if I recall correctly, he was in pain and couldn't have Vicodin so he was hurting himself to release natural pain killers into his system. Ultimately this whole thing comes back to motivation. He does do things that on the surface appear to be suicidal and the like, but he is never doing it with the motivation of killing himself or getting attention by appearing suicidal. He does do things that are self-mutilating, but not because he wants to hurt himself, usually for the opposite reason (like the brain surgery). Him operating on himself wasn't because he wanted to hurt himself, it is just him being a stubborn ass.


Yes, it is true that in the show he always has an explanation his behavior- and it is not
that _I_ think he is irrational, (I don't in some cases) it's just that no shrink in the world 
would believe a person continuously acts like this for rational reasons! They would say he is 'rationalizing' his self-destructive impulses, refusing to recognize the truth of his illness. They
would probably even say he has an unconscious death wish. 



Niccolo Machiavelli said:


> The guy has issues, no denying that. :laughing: Many of them emotional. But affective stability, as discussed when mentioning Borderline Personality Disorder or Histrionic Personality Disorder, deals strictly with changing emotions very quickly and for no apparent reason. These people will literally be crying their eyes out one minute, laughing the next, angry 30 seconds later, calm as can be 20 seconds after that, etc. House doesn't do that at all.


I agree he is not rapidly switching emotions. I do think he is significantly moody, though.
(That is, that he is slowly switching emotions, and they are prolonged and uncommonly
intense emotions that he merely does not display.)

But besides that, the fact that he clearly avoids showing any emotions at all would get some
attention diagnostically. They would say one of a few things, primary candidates being: 1) He's 
faking emotional stability (supports BPD, and a bunch of other disorders) 2) He actually doesn't 
have a lot of feeling (supports another slew of disorders- _and_ BPD if he is being 'dissociative').

To be fair, though, I do believe that you could walk into a football stadium and pick 10
people at random out of 10,000 and take them to see a shrink- and eight of them
would come out diagnosed with something. This is also part of my point, though- how funny 
it is that they possibly _would_ diagnose the character with BPD if they weren't
too sexist to think of it.



Niccolo Machiavelli said:


> Very subjective indeed, unless one of us can read minds. I can't, can you? :laughing:















Niccolo Machiavelli said:


> Chase punched him in the face once too, keep in mind (I don't recall who punched who first). However the key work here is "inappropriate." His anger is always appropriate, when he is angry, it always has a reason. People with BPD don't always have a reason when they go into their "mini-psychotic episodes." They will literally kill you, for no reason that you could ever figure out.


OK. Still don't think the Docs would agree on the subject of his anger, but, hey, it's 
television. Since everything is exaggerated there, let's give some leeway.



Niccolo Machiavelli said:


> I remember the strawberries, LOVED the bachelor party. :laughing: I got that song on my iPod. :laughing: But as I recall, that was from drugs, no?


Yea, said it was from drugs.



Niccolo Machiavelli said:


> There is a lot more to it than just having x amount of symptoms. There is motivation, context, and several other factors relevant to each disorder. I for example have enough symptoms to be diagnosed with Antisocial Personality Disorder, and I had a lot more when I was younger (too young to be diagnosed). However I'm not a psychopath/sociopath. A lot of the key elements are missing, such as a complete lack of empathy, or the fact that I don't wear social masks 24/7 to appear "normal" along with many common childhood factors like torturing small animals. Ergo, despite the fact that I fit the symptoms, no competent therapist would diagnose me with it.


Who says they are competent?!!!

I don't believe in APD/psychopath/sociopath, either- (big surprise, right?) so _I won't judge you_ *sob*


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## Niccolo Machiavelli (Aug 7, 2011)

FreeSpirit said:


> Well, if not evil- he know he ain't Santa Claus!


Santa is evil too! He has an eating disorder, he is only doing it for the cookies! :laughing:



FreeSpirit said:


> About this part, now I just want to talk about the BPD diagnosis. Knew someone who was
> diagnosed (they were too young to be, but was diagnosed anyway. damned shysters)
> anyway, this person was only occasionally wild. Yes, it was annoying when they were
> (they would do things like just leave the house in the middle of the night and hours later
> ...


Yes, the diagnoses are often, to put it politely, rather faulty. I knew a guy diagnosed with BPD who didn't show ANY of the symptoms at all. Along with all the other people who are diagnosed with fashionable problems, from ADHD to Bi-Polar Disorder.



FreeSpirit said:


> Yes, it is true that in the show he always has an explanation his behavior- and it is not
> that _I_ think he is irrational, (I don't in some cases) it's just that no shrink in the world
> would believe a person continuously acts like this for rational reasons! They would say he is 'rationalizing' his self-destructive impulses, refusing to recognize the truth of his illness. They
> would probably even say he has an unconscious death wish.


They would also point out that he hates his mother! :laughing:



FreeSpirit said:


> To be fair, though, I do believe that you could walk into a football stadium and pick 10
> people at random out of 10,000 and take them to see a shrink- and eight of them
> would come out diagnosed with something.


Very true. :laughing: So many perfectly normal behaviors or non-harmful quirks are now "mental illnesses." I think it is a great business to get into, you get to decide what percentage of the population needs your services. :laughing: Could you imagine the uproar if Microsoft got to decide what percentage of the population "needed" Windows? 



FreeSpirit said:


> This is also part of my point, though- how funny
> it is that they possibly _would_ diagnose the character with BPD if they weren't
> too sexist to think of it.


I would disagree about it being sexism though. I think it is perfectly natural to overlook something that is more common in females with male patients. For example, a male will be much more likely to have his breast cancer overlooked than a female in the same position. Not because of sexism, but because it is less likely so most doctors don't automatically look for it. Same thing with mental health diagnoses. While I'm sure there are plenty of males being overlooked when it comes to BPD or HPD, and a whole bunch of females being overlooked for NPD and APD, I would say these things, for obvious evolutionary reasons, are actually more common in each gender. 



FreeSpirit said:


> I don't believe in APD/psychopath/sociopath, either- (big surprise, right?) so _I won't judge you_ *sob*


I'm not sure what you mean by you don't "believe in it." I have a lot of problems with the whole thing, but I wouldn't say that I don't "believe in it." Empathy for example is a sliding scale, with some completely lacking (ie people we would call psychopaths). Ultimately though, you could list ten behaviors, give it a fancy label, and all of the sudden you have a new mental illness. Which is pretty much how these new "diseases" are created. While I would say that the people usually show these traits, the classifications and diagnoses are generally quite arbitrary. I'm not sure if that is what you mean though, or something completely different.


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## strawberryLola (Sep 19, 2010)

I don't know if you knew- in DSM-III homosexuality was considered a mental disorder. Once, passive-aggressive personality disorder was an actual disorder, and the committee recently thought about taking Narcissistic Personality Disorder off the DSM V list while keeping Borderline on it. A lot of feminist therapists are against Borderline Personality Disorder. The person who invented DBT for Borderline Personality admitted she has Borderline Personality Disorder. So. These labels are constantly changing, and when they do, they generate revenue for more research and publications that may or may not be as concrete and black and white in the real world. Yawn- not to mention other factors.. such as sociopolitical influences in medical research (pharmaceuticals) and revenue for profit verses non-profit institutions.. What I find is bullshit is instead of focusing on symptoms, why not focus on what is working for people and if we really do want to heal others to the point of good mental health, how come these options are so limited and seem to not focus on what's really the issue? Such as family structure and systemic problems that may be the actual solution. Yeah- crock.


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