# NT vs. NF (spun off from "Do We have a superiority complex?")



## R2-D2 (Mar 6, 2010)

thehigher said:


> For some reason... I _feel_ as though NT's are better than NF's. I suppose this confirms that I am not very rational haha. But.... it does _feel_ that way. I mean.... alright so being a feeler.... that means you know what to do in social situations and stuff right? Yea I suppose so... I guess just being an INFP means that even though you know it... doesn't take away from the social awkwardness. But despite that NT's often admit that they don't know what to do in social situations.... they are often quite popular at least in the intuitive community. I dunno. I'm sure it is merely because... I know what it it's like to be me.... and since I have it... I don't value it. Just like you want what you don't have. There is nothing about my outlook.... that I don't already know.... so .... it's not interesting to me... because it is me. If that makes any sense.
> 
> Despite how illogical my feelings are about this.... for some darn reason I just feel this way. I guess it might be because I used to have discussions with my ex intp girlfriend in which we would discuss topics... and she was often right... and it made sense. To make sense.... feelings don't make sense. You can express them.... but they don't make sense. Not to mention if you make a argument based on feeling.... you are automatically disregarded ... so I guess part of the inferiority feeling is that.... in decision making.... we are not listened to unless we make an argument coming from a T perspective. It's quite frustrating really... feeling as though all the judgements you make to make sense of the world are .... wrong.
> 
> ...


honestly, i think the notion of NT-NF superiority is just another social construct.




Peter said:


> You shouldn't feel that way. They may be better at some things than you are. Just like you are better than them at some things. That's the way things are.
> 
> You think NT's aren't aware of their emotions? Of course they are, just as much as you are. Their brains just chose to deal with them rationally and make a decision and leave it at that. Your problem can not be solved by ignoring your feelings. Ignoring your feelings is just stupid. You need to learn how to deal with them. That's much easier than ignoring anyway.


hmmm... i'm afraid i disagree. i think many NT's are absolutely NOT aware of their emotions (and nowhere near being as aware as INFP's are).




thehigher said:


> Yea wrong words... that will happen a lot with me. Like... i dunno... it's that that makes them seem better. Like you said... they ARE aware of their emotions... they just deal with them logically. Well... I mean.... what are we good at then? I just see little to be proud of.... I guess I mean just as ...a uh... INFP. Cause the other NF's I see nothing they should be ashamed of. I mean ENFP's are great at talking to people and all and INFJs actually do things for other people and ENFJs are just amazing with how they connect and all.... but I guess I feel like all I do is just sit here and feel. Like a sitting duck. I just sit here while everyone else does things.... I feel useless. But yet that's me. And knowing this ... just hurts. To know that you .... naturally.... just sit there... and get offended at irrational things. Dunno. Guess I am being hard on myself.


yes, you are being really hard on yourself. :sad:




lirulin said:


> INFPs are better at being aware of other people's emotions for one...how many people do you accidentally offend? Is it ten a day? Does your performance evaluation regularly say you're too rude, by accident? There's one strength.


hehe... yeah, i've had this problem, though less now than i used to.




thehigher said:


> Yea I guess that is one strength. But ... if you don't feel bad about offending people... then why does it matter if you do offend people? Like the only reason why it would be beneficial to be aware of others emotions is if it hurt me to know that they were offended. Which.... I'm sure you guys feel bad about it. I dunno it's confusing.


it matters because the other person's day (and in the aggregate, life) is affected by whether, and how badly and how often, you offend them. so it's beneficial to that person even if you're not aware of your impact on them. and in the aggregate, believe it or not, it benefits society. also, i think most NT's do NOT feel bad about offending others.



thehigher said:


> Then again... wouldn't it all be better if everyone just took things for what they meant rather than read into little signs that show emotion? I dunno if that makes sense. I guess what I am saying is.... if everyone was NT.... no one would get offended because they listened to what was actually said... not some lack of sensitivity in their voice. What's the point of INFP's creating harmony if things work just fine without it?


hahaha.... oh boy, i think a world full of _only_ NT's would be a miserable place--at least for me, anyway.




thehigher said:


> Sorry I'm kinda derailing the thread.


hence this new one. :tongue:




Peter said:


> INTJ's, or at least I, think that everybody is responsible for their own feelings. If I say something and another person feels bad then that's his problem. The only thing that annoys the hell out of me when people say things with the intent to hurt somebody else's feelings. That is so childish. I will never say things with the intent to hurt only.
> 
> But I will also be honest and when I say something that might hurt somebody's feelings and it's true, I don't have any problem with that. I usually don't really think about it either. But sometimes I do know it will hurt but then again, it's often the best thing to do as it benefits the end result, which is almost always more important.


ouch. so if someone is, say, handicapped or less skilled at something due to no fault of their own--and by commenting on that fact, you're merely being honest and not intentionally malicious, but you ultimately accomplish nothing productive and only end up making them feel bad--they're still responsible for not feeling bad after you shat on them?

what i'm trying to get at is, i definitely think there IS a need to filter our output sometimes.




lirulin said:


> One may not feel bad, but having enemies isn't always functional. Especially in, say, work situations.
> 
> And not all tone is imaginary. Some of it is important. Some of it is very important. It's about being considerate. And if everyone was NT, what was actually said would probably be worth getting offended at.


totally agree, it's about being considerate.




thehigher said:


> Right.... I dunno. If everyone is responsible for their own feelings then why is being aware of others feelings a strength? I think that's what I am trying to get at.
> 
> I respect the being honest even if it hurts someone's feelings. Honesty is much more important to me than my feelings.... although my feelings will disagree with that statement. I just want truth.... but then my feelings say.... but we want to feel joy.
> 
> I dunno.. guess I am just having a battle between my desire for objective truth vs my feelings which yell in my face. My desire for objective truth seems to be limited by my overwhelming ocean of feelings. Which I suppose is why I tend to think NT's are superior. The part that makes me valuable... I don't care much for....... or do I? If it were to suddenly not be there anymore... I wonder how I would react.


despite what Peter said, i don't think most people are aware of their own feelings; the ever-growing psychotherapy industry is proof of that.

something i'm learning with age is that the same "truth" delivered in different ways can be worlds apart in terms of impact and effectiveness--i.e., growth or destruction.




lirulin said:


> It's knowledge. Which is power. You can use it to manipulate people, or you can use it to treat them properly. Either way.
> 
> Even then, it's not always actual awareness of emotion, but awareness of the _potential _of affecting another person. Hurting them badly, for example - you're not too oblivious to know you're hurting their feelings, so when you do, it's deliberate, and you can control for the consequences. You're not blindsided.
> 
> And since it's more Fi it's more about how it's "right" to act and the concern about the effect on other people seems in many infps to be more about social anxiety or worry than empathy, to be honest. Nonetheless.


yes, it's power. please use wisely, NF's. :happy:



unleashthehounds said:


> I guess since I'm INTP and therefore use Fe-- that's why I'm concerned if I upset other's feelings.. Unless they get offended by something I think is ridiculous, then I won't care too much.





Peter said:


> Depends on what you do. In sales it helps to know what the person you´re trying to sell to is feeling. But then again, are you really aware of other people's feelings or are you just aware of how you would feel if you would be in his/her shoes?





thehigher said:


> Yea... it's just from feeling a lot of different things that I can empathize. I can remember in that situation what it was like. This is why INFP's are often wrong when it comes to reading ENTP's feelings. So yea... no we don't just know.... it does make sense.





Peter said:


> So now you figured out that you don't know how other people feel when you say or do something. You only know how you would feel in those situations.
> 
> Problem solved!
> 
> If you don't know, you don't have to worry about how they might feel. So you can go on with your life.





thehigher said:


> Actually.... I am still very aware that they are feeling the same way I was because of facial expression and many other things like body language, and intervals between words and breath. Also situational ... I can tell a lot from the situation as well.... but ... yea.... I can't ignore other peoples feelings... that's for sure.


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## NeedsNewNameNow (Dec 1, 2009)

> honestly, i think the notion of NT-NF superiority is just another social construct.


Doesn't every type group have a superiority complex though? Try doing things in a non-SJ way around SJs and see what happens


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## R2-D2 (Mar 6, 2010)

unleashthehounds said:


> Doesn't every type group have a superiority complex though? Try doing things in a non-SJ way around SJs and see what happens


you have a point there. my mom's ISFJ, and yeah, i drive her up the wall. :crazy:


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

unleashthehounds said:


> Doesn't every type group have a superiority complex though? Try doing things in a non-SJ way around SJs and see what happens


Excellent point. Every type is different, hell.. every person is different, and anyone could make a case for why their way is the right way.


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## Sliad (Apr 17, 2010)

kangaroo said:


> hmmm... i'm afraid i disagree. i think many NT's are absolutely NOT aware of their emotions (and nowhere near being as aware as INFP's are).


I have to disagree, I believe NT's are aware of their emotions, they just deal with them in completely different ways than another type would.


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## lirulin (Apr 16, 2010)

I've noticed it most around NTs, but then again...I am one. So I've met more. Yeah.


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## NiDBiLD (Apr 1, 2010)

SJs deal with the world according to set standards and uphold the status quo. Progress: Slow if any.

SPs do not usually plan very far ahead, and they act based on the immediate physical environment. Progress: small, sporadic and haphazard.

NFs are illogical and subjective, and the things they create are of subjective nature. Progress in the objective world: Small.

NTs are logical visionaries, and most of mankinds technological and philosophical progress can be attributed to us. Progress: Huge.

Can we consider the matter settled now?


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## Wulfdot (Apr 14, 2010)

Something seems "off" about this thread's title. I feel like my head is spunning.

I have a superiority complex, and I admit it.  Not as much as other NTs though. You guys are bastards (LOLOL)


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## TreeBob (Oct 11, 2008)

NiDBiLD said:


> SJs deal with the world according to set standards and uphold the status quo. Progress: Slow if any.
> 
> SPs do not usually plan very far ahead, and they act based on the immediate physical environment. Progress: small, sporadic and haphazard.
> 
> ...


NiDBiLD, you may want to stay away from jokes such as this. I understand you are new here but please watch it.


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## Wulfdot (Apr 14, 2010)

Come now treebob, has you losted your sense of humour too


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## TreeBob (Oct 11, 2008)

Wulfdot said:


> Come now treebob, has you losted your sense of humour too


I have a sense of humour but I also have a job. Happy pays me a lot to give infractions.


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## Wulfdot (Apr 14, 2010)

We should rename you grumpy.  Happy and Grumpy. Sounds like a TV-Show (wait... rin and stimpy)


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## R2-D2 (Mar 6, 2010)

Sliad said:


> I have to disagree, I believe NT's are aware of their emotions, they just deal with them in completely different ways than another type would.


hmm. well i guess to me, the stereotypical NT way of "deal with them in completely different ways" is just another way of saying "disdain, suppress, and deny." which, in effect, ultimately amounts to most (not all) NT's not being aware of their emotions.


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## Arioche (Aug 5, 2009)

Wulfdot said:


> Come now treebob, has you losted your sense of humour too


I somehow doubt he's joking. 
*raise eyebrow*

Arioche: Being a fun sponge since 1990.


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## NeedsNewNameNow (Dec 1, 2009)

kangaroo said:


> hmm. well i guess to me, the stereotypical NT way of "deal with them in completely different ways" is just another way of saying "disdain, suppress, and deny." which, in effect, ultimately amounts to most (not all) NT's not being aware of their emotions.


But we are aware.. At least for me, it goes something like this "ooh, I'm feeling jealous.. must not express or appear jealous.. die emotion die... now I'm upset.. must not let anyone see that... repeat"


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## Wulfdot (Apr 14, 2010)

I have to agree with Kangaroo here. When I finally get an emotion it [is] random[ly] [and] comes out of nowhere. I dissect it to see what it is like, and I can easily express it, but I don't often feel emotions or understand my own emotions. Some have said I generally lack emotions. While others have told me that I just express them in a different way and while I consciously don't know my emotions my subconscious finds cute little ways to let others know them. An INTJ (on this site) said that I have a tendency to express my emotions through music I listen too. I don't know my emotions myself but she can always guess from what I'm listening too, and I [shockingly] look surprised that she knew something about me that I didn't.

W. Hey :]
K. What's up? I see you're listening to Vivaldi, feeling good huh?
W. I don't know? I guess.

My rationality beats my emotions out of me to the point where I don't actually see them. I see only the rational side of things, but sometimes I do catch myself getting involved in something and wonder why.


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## R2-D2 (Mar 6, 2010)

unleashthehounds said:


> But we are aware.. At least for me, it goes something like this "ooh, I'm feeling jealous.. must not express or appear jealous.. die emotion die... now I'm upset.. must not let anyone see that... repeat"


unleash, i think you're more emotionally developed than most NT's. that and INTP's are often more emotionally sensitive of all of the NT's. perhaps because of our insecurity, i don't really know...




Wulfdot said:


> I have to agree with Kangaroo here. When I finally get an emotion it [is] random[ly] [and] comes out of nowhere. I dissect it to see what it is like, and I can easily express it, but I don't often feel emotions or understand my own emotions. Some have said I generally lack emotions. While others have told me that I just express them in a different way and while I consciously don't know my emotions my subconscious finds cute little ways to let others know them. An INTJ (on this site) said that I have a tendency to express my emotions through music I listen too. I don't know my emotions myself but she can always guess from what I'm listening too, and I [shockingly] look surprised that she knew something about me that I didn't.
> 
> W. Hey :]
> K. What's up? I see you're listening to Vivaldi, feeling good huh?
> ...


yeah, somehow it seems fitting to me that the one person who could pick up on an INTP's well-concealed (even to himself) emotions would be an INTJ.


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## NiDBiLD (Apr 1, 2010)

Arioche said:


> I somehow doubt he's joking.
> *raise eyebrow*
> 
> Arioche: Being a fun sponge since 1990.


doubt on.

I intended it as humor, but I guess fun is in the eye of the beholder, hm?


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## Arioche (Aug 5, 2009)

NiDBiLD said:


> doubt on.
> 
> I intended it as humor, but I guess fun is in the eye of the beholder, hm?


I guess my reverse attempt at humor failed too.


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## Radzell (Mar 3, 2010)

I don't think its a superior complex i am smarter than some people and some people are smarter than me whats true is true


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