# Reactive Triad : How Do You React?



## sodden (Jul 20, 2009)

Oh sigh, at whomever. It wasn't this response from som in particular, he says crap like that all the time and i'm just over it, that's all. Maybe everything shouldn't always be 'laughed off', you know.


----------



## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

brainheart said:


> Oh sigh, at whomever. It wasn't this response from som in particular, he says crap like that all the time and i'm just over it, that's all. Maybe everything shouldn't always be 'laughed off', you know.


don't mess with the bull
...you'll get the horns =)


----------



## sodden (Jul 20, 2009)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> don't mess with the bull
> ...you'll get the horns =)


Besides, I wanted to show how I react (it's just usually deleted or internal).. But not this time-

Seriously, if you want to see a polar opposite of me, there he is, the swordsman...


----------



## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

brainheart said:


> Besides, I wanted to show how I react (it's just usually deleted or internal).. But not this time-
> Seriously, if you want to see a polar opposite of me, there he is, the swordsman...


you're perpetuating my point even more. I don't care about your feelings. control them or talk to a shrink, but behave yourself around me, I have no time for such nonsense.


----------



## sodden (Jul 20, 2009)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> you're perpetuating my point even more. I don't care about your feelings. control them or talk to a shrink, but behave yourself around me, I have no time for such nonsense.


What's your point exactly? And who said you had to respond? And who are you to tell me to control my feelings? I like my feelings, thank you very much. 
I'll just resume staying away from you and you can do the same to me. Ciao.


----------



## sleeper (Aug 26, 2010)

paper lilies said:


> I didn't think @Swordsman of Mana was being rude or insensitive at all and I'm merely an observer that has been reading this thread due to title intrigue. He is allowed to have his opinions, just as you are allowed to have yours correct? He wasn't personally attacking you. He did not write, "brainheart, you piss me off." Even if he did, he has a right to like and dislike whomever he pleases and as do you. No one likes everything and no one likes everyone. Loosen up and laugh it off. Someone else's personal opinion is not worth getting upset over in my own opinion. I thought your reaction was completely out of line with the original content SOM posted. He also did not deserve to be implied as an ass hole for his opinion either.


You think someone like him needs your backup? He's just on here being belligerent and up to no good trying to get a reaction out of people and he got it. If anything, he got his way and here you are telling someone they're completely out of line for taking issue with his thoughtless, childlike behavior. If anything, it's reactive of him to just come blurt out his feelings that add _nothing_ to the discussion and that _are_ offensive to a large group of people (who are mostly on here trying to understand themselves). I've stood up for belligerent people on here acting like children before and I regret it. Why don't you take your own advice and "loosen up and laugh it off" instead assuming everyone wants and needs to be more like you? That's rhetorical, by the way.


----------



## Chipps (Jun 1, 2011)

Lol. Uh oh. Its getting reactive in this bitch. :wink:


----------



## Coburn (Sep 3, 2010)

Geez. Remind me never to make a thread about reactive people. They come flying out of the woodwork with their teeth bared at the slightest opinion that doesn't pander to their sensitivity.


----------



## Spades (Aug 31, 2011)

My tritype is the "Reactive 7", can I play? =P


----------



## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

JuliaRhys said:


> Geez. Remind me never to make a thread about reactive people. They come flying out of the woodwork with their teeth bared at the slightest opinion that doesn't pander to their sensitivity.


Exactly. 

I don't understand what's wrong with saying that reactive people piss him off. They piss me off too. Heck, they piss off most people. I mean the guy made a simple statement that certain types of people annoyed him. Obviously, reactive people are not limited to the reactive triad, gosh. And, all of a sudden he is belligerent? 

____________________


If there are unresolved issues about his past behaviour, contact him privately. Why derail the thread over personal nonsense? And no, I don't think, for a second, that he was trying to get anyone's reactions. It's too bad that a straight-forward comment on his end has ruffled people's delicate sensibilities. It was not a personal attack at all, but I am seeing a lot of personal attacks from people condemning him of provoking reactions. It's speaking volumes about people 'reacting', not him.


----------



## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

brainheart said:


> What's your point exactly? And who said you had to respond? And who are you to tell me to control my feelings? I like my feelings, thank you very much.


I was referring to your first comment



> I'll just resume staying away from you and you can do the same to me. Ciao.


thank you, I appreciate it


----------



## SilentScream (Mar 31, 2011)

I think I'm a lot more passive than I like to believe. 

However, I can sustain a fight if I decide to but I will avoid it for as long as I can possibly avoid it. 

When I'm busy doing stuff, I just don't have the time to indulge in conflict because everything that I'm doing is so perfect that no one ever has any issues with it. But I've faced a lot of conflict all my life that I don't actually want any part of - but I've had to indulge in it - unwillingly so - but if I hadn't, I would've been a lot more abused than I was. 

I think I go something like this when I'm being provoked repeatedly by the same person: 

Stage 1: Endear by appealing to positive side 
Stage 2: Diplomacy by giving multiple perspective
Stage 3: Avoid, avoid, avoid - but getting slightly sarcastic and provocative - trying to get the person to make a fool of himself first 
Stage 4: Hinting about getting angry and uncomfortable
Stage 5: A clear cut warning not to piss me off further
Stage 6: F***ing hell .. you're dead -- watch me take you down with all my abilities, knowledge, physical displays of anger through my expressions, eyes, ability to shout and raise my voice - which will always be higher than yours no matter what. 
Stage 7: Goodbye, good riddance to bad rubbish. Now I'm indifferent to your existence. 

Dunno if that makes me "reactive" or not  

I'd say more complaint than reactive?


----------



## LimeDegree (Mar 6, 2012)




----------



## Jamie.Ether (Jul 1, 2011)

n2freedom said:


> I tend to agree with Riso and Hudson in the following:
> 
> I think type 4 reactivity manifest from issues related to abandonment - that no one will care for them; that they will not have enough support to find and become themselves. And, I also agree the pattern in which they deal with it involves keeping others interested by limiting access, playing "hard to get", and holding on to supporters. I would love to get Fours input on this. Oh yeah I also think reactivity may manifest itself when Fours feel misunderstood and/or misrepresented by others.
> 
> ...


 I'm not a 4, but am a 5w4 with a strong four wing [it was a close call between 4w5 and 5w4] and I can definitely relate to what you said about 4's reacting. Maybe by 5-ness hides the reactivity inside me, but my number one button is when I feel misunderstood or misrepresented.
And what you said about 6 reactivity really hit the nail on the head, IMO. I dated a type 6 for a little over a year, and that is all so true of him.


----------



## SilentScream (Mar 31, 2011)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> @n2freedom
> I'm a 713
> 7 = chill
> 1 and 3 = competency/controlled triad
> ...


Heh. You had your thread closed down. You had a couple of people claim you were typist ... and no reaction except to simply ask why your thread was closed down. 

Umm .. I could be wrong, but I think a 6 would react very strongly to something like that. Even someone with a 6 fix would.


----------



## sodden (Jul 20, 2009)

Boss said:


> Exactly.
> 
> I don't understand what's wrong with saying that reactive people piss him off. They piss me off too. Heck, they piss off most people. I mean the guy made a simple statement that certain types of people annoyed him. Obviously, reactive people are not limited to the reactive triad, gosh. And, all of a sudden he is belligerent?
> 
> ...


Did you notice the topic of the thread? It wasn't 'what do you think of reactive people', so why is he jumping in saying something like that? If anything, he was derailing the thread. Look, i'm not saying my behavior was exemplary, but why is it so terrible to be reactive? So I have feelings and I express them vs hiding them or suppressing them. How is that less healthy or something to be ashamed of, because that seems to be what people are turning it into. Maybe instead people should stop being so squeamish when people react and openly express their feelings, especially in a thread where that's the topic.


----------



## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

sleeper said:


> You think someone like him needs your backup? He's just on here being belligerent and up to no good trying to get a reaction out of people and he got it. If anything, he got his way and here you are telling someone they're completely out of line for taking issue with his thoughtless, childlike behavior. If anything, it's reactive of him to just come blurt out his feelings that add _nothing_ to the discussion and that _are_ offensive to a large group of people (who are mostly on here trying to understand themselves). I've stood up for belligerent people on here acting like children before and I regret it. Why don't you take your own advice and "loosen up and laugh it off" instead assuming everyone wants and needs to be more like you? That's rhetorical, by the way.


hahaha 
this thread is like a giant case study providing data for my original post. you've made the assumption that I must be trying to provoke someone because I made a straight forward and unapologetic comment. you believe it makes me "childish" that I don't understand your feelings, but what is truly childish is to spew one's emotions and expect people to take them seriously. the reason why reactive people piss me off is because they don't _take responsibility_ for their feelings and _obligate_ others to do so instead. _this_ is what is truly childish as well as belligerent for the following reasons.
- making an emotional display off of a one line comment
- accusing someone of being provocative with no evidence
- making the impersonal highly personal and emotional 
- attacking another person for gently defending the original person 

that said, I am more than willing to listen to people's struggles in certain situations. in fact, I love playing therapist. my parents used to tell me growing up that I was like a mom in a male's body because I used to ask the other kids why they were crying and help them through their problems, still do today with my friends (I do not make friends quickly, but once you are in, you are under Papa Bear's protection and he will ensure that you get all the physical and emotional support you need.). but when someone hurls insults in the form of emotional vomit bombs and _expects_ me to listen to them? that is a no no. you need to _earn_. this is one reason why communicating via internet is annoying sometimes. in real life, it's much easier to take control of the situation with a simple "calm down and pull yourself together", "leave" or, most of the time, just subtle body language display of "I don't like that" but on the internet, one has to spell everything out.


----------



## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

@Jawz

3 is not in the reactive triad. 
reactive-triad=4,6, 8

but 9 fixed 6s and 4s can be very mellow. all the reactivity stays under the surface, for the most part

_______________________________________________________________________________________

I have a few observations about reactivity in the reactive triad, as far as typing goes. This question was posed to me on another thread. In fact, said question inspired this wonderful thread. 

*Type 6:* 

React most aggressively to being typed as a type they disagree with. Sometimes, people go around being offensive assholes about typing others, so the reaction can be warranted. Disrespectful typing attempts will elicit annoyance from most people, regardless of type. 

That said, respectful suggestions can also be taken the wrong way and provoke over-the-top ad hominem laced reactions because they feel imposed upon/controlled. They respond as though you have disempowered them in some way. I hear a lot of "Only, I can decide what type I am"/ "Who the heck are you to say I am Type X?" type reactions. This is most true of cp6s. I've also heard a lot of counter-questioning-- Are you sure you're not a 6? (as though being a 6 were the worst kind of insult imaginable)/ Prove to me that you're not a 6! grr. lol. The conversation ends at that point because it's clear that it has turned into a shit slinging 'prove me wrong bitch!" game. 

For a long time I blamed these reactions on poor descriptions, but despite my efforts to dispel negative stereotypes about 6s right on type me threads, the adverse reactions have continued. I am now nearing the conclusion that negative stereotyping really takes hold in people's minds, and it can be very difficult to uproot. I am also concluding that a few 6s can be very difficult to reason with because of issues surrounding control/assertion and dominance. It's tough to have a composed conversation with a person who is ready to kill a fly with a bazooka. I haven't, yet, figured out a way to effectively deal with this ..besides walking away from a counter-productive discussion.

That said, several 6s I have encountered have been rather open, respectful and mature. They may disagree with the typing, but the mature ones can definitely step back and announce further deliberation or an ending of said discussion until they have more questions or comments, if at all they do. 

*Type 4: *

These sad sods usually stick out like sore thumbs so their melancholic whiny butts are rather easy to spot. Ok..ok..I am joking people. :tongue:

As I was saying, it's uncommon to mistype a 4 as a 6 or any other type. But, their reaction is more along the lines of an elitist type of disgust....like...ugh ok....you plebian...you couldn't probably understand my emotional depth...anyway...ugh..Some of them can make this disgust known in a much more aggressive fashion, but there's no sense of "I feel attacked/controlled" Get your hands off me! now! 4s react with a haughtiness that's very different from 6s aggression. 


*Type 8:*

8s tend not to lose their temper over being typed. They may have bad tempers, but they're just not the kinds who'd feel controlled/severely offended over total strangers saying they were a certain type. They really aren't invested enough in Type labels to care. A lot of 8w9s tend to brush it off as....sure yeah..I am a Type X :laughing:

P.S. @Promethea had mentioned wanting to create a thread about Typing Etiquette for Typers and Typees. I'd be very interested in starting this thread or contributing to it. If you have time, since it was your idea, I look forward to seeing such a thread from you. If you're busy atm, let me know, I'd be happy to create one.


----------



## BeauGarcon (May 11, 2011)

@Swordsman of Mana:
Why do you act this rude, lol? And don't tell me you just live up to the stereotype of a type... Actually would explain the 7-1-3-ish avatar, the 'funny' comebacks and your following that thanks you for every rude/unthoughtful post you make; it's actually even preferable to act arrogant, give short answers without explaining and spam on this forum if you want the acceptance of the masses (note: I generalize here, it isn't always like this here).

And @Boss: You don't need to be a type four to find most people plebeians here, okay joke, don't get sensitive people.


----------



## Chipps (Jun 1, 2011)

I just want to say, Im glad type 6 isn't winning the most reactive award. 


This is a mini victory.:happy:


----------



## SilentScream (Mar 31, 2011)

Boss said:


> @Jawz
> 
> 3 is not in the reactive triad.


Yeah .. but this was one of the few active threads on the night and I wanted to be a part of it  

---

I don't think I've ever encountered an actual 468 triader ... Also, it sounds like 369+468 = recipe for disaster on most issues - especially those surrounding authenticity. As a 3, there are times when I don't give a fuck about honesty -- I go along to get along - I fake it till I make it [but that faking it is more designed to protect myself from succumbing to my own bullshit negative feelings. I'd rather overcome them than indulge them --- i.e. putting on a happy face when I'm actually hurting inside -- I can accept why other people experience and display negative emotions - but it gets tiring after a time and starts feeling like an act to garner sympathy]

Since we're talking about 468 reactions. How would a 468 react to being called out on their negativity about themselves? I.e. Told to --- just go out there and do it, you don't have to be in the right mood for it.


----------



## Coburn (Sep 3, 2010)

brainheart said:


> Maybe instead people should stop being so squeamish when people react and openly express their feelings, especially in a thread where that's the topic.


----------



## sodden (Jul 20, 2009)

Chipps said:


> I just want to say, Im glad type 6 isn't winning the most reactive award.
> 
> 
> This is a mini victory.:happy:


Maybe that's because many sixes are embarrassed about being reactive while fours might be proud of it, my guess is especially sexual fours. 
Just an idea... (and maybe that's why many sixes are so against being sixes.) I know that my emotions and strength of feeling are something I like about myself, it's kind of the foundation of my being.

If everyone was being reactiive and everyone liked it, would you be more inclined to be reactive as well? Just curious-

@JuliaRhys, touche. I'm glad you made your point with cartoony visuals because I'm getting tired of reading.


----------



## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

brainheart said:


> Maybe that's because many sixes are embarrassed about being reactive while fours might be proud of it, my guess is especially sexual fours.
> Just an idea... (and maybe that's why many sixes are so against being sixes.) I know that my emotions and strength of feeling are something I like about myself, it's kind if the foundation of my being.


Actually, a lot of 4s on forums are mistyped 6s. You make an interesting point, nevertheless.


----------



## Coburn (Sep 3, 2010)

@brainheart


----------



## OrangeAppled (Jun 26, 2009)

n2freedom said:


> I tend to agree with Riso and Hudson in the following:
> 
> I think type 4 reactivity manifest from issues related to abandonment - that no one will care for them; that they will not have enough support to find and become themselves. And, I also agree the pattern in which they deal with it involves keeping others interested by limiting access, playing "hard to get", and holding on to supporters. I would love to get Fours input on this. Oh yeah I also think reactivity may manifest itself when Fours feel misunderstood and/or misrepresented by others.
> 
> ...


4s are very concerned with being individuals, so there can be a reaction to attempts to try & control them, especially when it comes to their self-image. This can result in "victimhood" when the 4 feels misunderstood. I think 4s are more likely to disengage faster than 6s. 6s can seem really masochistic sometimes, in the way they stick around to prove themselves. I think 4s are more comfortable walking away misunderstood.

As a 4, I will say there is a sense of pleasure at being misunderstood at times too. It can confirm an aspect of your self-image, even if it's just "I'm too complex for people to grasp". If someone types me as something other than what I identify with, instead of getting mad, I'm somewhat pleased, because I don't necessarily want to be easily labeled. That doesn't mean I won't make a defense of sorts, but it will be along the lines of: "That's interesting, but not correct"; or if it does hit a soft spot, then it's: "You've entirely misunderstood my motivations. Your impression of me says more about YOU than ME." Lack of sensitivity is a trigger more than what is actually said at times, not to say that there is no reading between the lines still.



Bumblyjack said:


> Anyways, being misunderstood or misrepresented is definitely one of my major hot buttons (though not the only one). When this happens something along these lines goes through my head: "Don't you fucking tell me who I am or who I'm allowed to be." This particular kind of trigger really gets to me because it violates all of my centers: 4w5 heart center doesn't like my image being challenged, CP 6w5 head center hates being antagonized, and 9w1 gut center is watching for all the qualifications to be met so that I'm allowed to dive into truly unbridled anger.


I think being a 4 explains all of this in itself (I'm not a tri-type believer). 4s can look for moral justification for anger due to 1 integration, and a distaste of being antagonized can be related to feeling misunderstood (it shows people don't grasp you quickly/easily; or it brings to surface a doubt in your own authenticity).



> When all the tumblers align and the vault opens, my internal response can be best described as *righteous fury.* However, I don't explode in rage. I actually seem quite calm, cool, and collected. Why? For one, I love it (and you'll see a devilish smirk on my face) because in those situations *I feel justified in doing whatever I want to do*.


That is THE phrase for when I really reach the end of my rope, and I get weirdly calm & articulate. It feels RIGHTEOUS. This is sooo 1 integration. Lower level 4 just has a dramatic outburst or internalizes it all & indulges in depressive feelings over it, IMO.



Boss said:


> Sixes are often adept at playing victim and playing aggressor, often in quick succession. Essentially, feeling targeted and attacked is experienced as victimization. They react to this victimization by positioning themselves as combative, aggressive, questioning and so on. This vulnerable combativeness is then rationalized away as being a kind of learning experience or even friendly banter! But these defenses can be very easy to locate and manipulate, if the six isn't careful.
> 
> I completely agree with how you described reactivity in the reactive triad lol @_n2freedom_ . Though, I would add that being controlled is 6 fear as well. cp6s fear being controlled by people and circumstances. I find that while 8s have similar fears; these fears don't lie at the forefront of an 8s consciousness. They don't live and breathe this fear the way 6s do, which is why cp6s can be far more reactive and territorial than a core 8. They're far quicker at feeling that someone is trying to attack them or assert control over them. 8s will brush off such attempts at control (until something poses an actual obstacle in their path) as laughable. If you were to start provoking an 8, an 8w9 will likely ignore attempts as childish and assinine or address them calmly and exit the scene once they've lost interest in the tomfoolery. An 8w7, will either brush it off as silliness after they've played around ...aggressively. But, a cp6 will immediately get their guard up and brace for combat. In my experience, 8s being less reactive than 6s (mostly cp), are actually better at picking their battles and better at letting go.


I think 4s tell you off. As mentioned above, they go into 1 self-righteous mode where they tell you what is what, that you've misunderstood them, and then they likely use their empathy for evil to psychoanalyze why you would come to such a conclusion (implying it's really about the other person, not the 4). OR they go into 2 mode of "I am trying so hard to be nice & no one appreciates it or understands me!" - in short, they play victim, but in a guilt-trippy way. There is a larger focus from the 4 on the moral & emotional side of an affront, whereas 6s seem to question factual accuracy & individual expertise, and adhere to platitudes as defenses ("you can't type other people accurately online!").

4s don't like being controlled either, which I think all the reactive types have in common. I think some of the triggers are similar, but yes, the reaction itself is telling. Nuances can make all the difference though.



Arienette said:


> Well, there's a fine distinction between inside and outside reactivity in my case. My external reactivity usually happens only around familiar people. Inside, I'm reactive quite often. It bubbles into the surface when people really push my limits.


100% agree. I can do a total stone face & seethe inside when it's not someone I am comfortable with. I feel tongue-tied & frozen then. My reaction then is to retreat, which is typical of a withdrawing type (something 4s are also).



> I become the most reactive when I'm not seen by others, when I'm forgotten, and could burst *when my boundaries get violated* due to this lack of awareness to my existence. I have lot of reactivity issues around this subject. I want to be seen, acknowledged, I want to be heard, I want to get the proper respect for my existence and for each and every single word that comes out of my mouth. I want my time to matter, my efforts to matter, my struggles and pain to matter. All my life I felt like my family doesn't really see me and not take me too seriously, *that I was never the first choice by any one*. The irony is that I was always so bold; be it in my behavior or my appearance.


These are big issues for me also... this is all very 2 disintegration also, when the 4 feels unappreciated & unnoticed. Being misunderstood can trigger this, which can cause an outburst, followed by a withdrawal, or just a withdrawal, period.



> When my personality traits are getting twisted. Oh, you should really take cover then. When others try to analyze me and get it all wrong, I get really pissed off. Actually, even when they get it right. I hate when others try to analyze me as if it's even possible. The fools! Fools I tell you! I often say that people don't really know me but only my external behavior which often says very little on what's going on inside. Not only that it's really rare for someone to actually know what's really is down there, but when others use false beliefs about my personality against me… that's a very irritating place to be. It's a network; *it makes me feel like there's no merit to how I perceive myself and how I want to be treated, because others perceive me differently and thus treat me very differently from how I want to be treated.* Even when I talk about what really goes inside, which is something I do much more often recently, it is still far, because people don't know how to eat me, and assume I'm dramatizing my way of living and what really goes on with me.


This is very true for me also... I don't like someone implying they know me better than I know me. Just the other day, my sister implies I don't feel deeply, which is something I get a lot, and my initial reaction is to be defensive. However, this is just as often internalized as it is expressed. If I make a defense, then I tend to inform someone of the "reality" and then shut down further conversation about it. "Shutting down" is more common to 4s than the other reactives, IMO.




> I'm a very reactive person, and often feel way too emotional, nervous, angry and irritated by many, many things. *Lot of it is kept inside*, I guess due to my 9 fix, and in the social realm due to my social instinct, and that's why my parents usually get all the heat at the moment they push my buttons, as they are already the fuel themselves by default.


Again, I'll say I think this is just being a 4, who are also withdrawn types. 9s don't just keep stuff inside, they often repress it so they don't even acknowledge it to themselves.


----------



## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

@OrangeAppled

Yes, the reaction is telling. 6s react with outrage rooted in feeling controlled/ severely imposed upon. 4s react from a place of "You just can't understand me..for x,y, z reasons mostly revolving around their own complexity and depth". 6s tend to launch attacks in a more personally hostile fashion than 4s, who can either come across as self-righteously haughty or whiny/guilt tripping.

And yes, 4s tend to get frustrated and have no trouble walking away misunderstood. It probably reinforces their feelings of difference. 6s usually dig their heels in, and sometimes, become very challenging and confrontational. 4s tend not to get anywhere as aggressive, not in my experience at least. But, I have certainly seen 6s walk away from type me threads. cp6s are more likely to just keep going for 10+ pages...long after the 'battle' (in their perception, type me threads can turn into battlegrounds rather easily) is officially over.


----------



## Dark Romantic (Dec 27, 2011)

LOL at this thread... to everyone that's getting worked up over nothing, why does it matter? Why do any of you care what someone's opinion on a character trait (that may or may not even apply to you) just happens to be? It's a personal opinion that is being blown completely out of proportion (LOL at the hypocrisy of demanding people keep their opinions silent, while flaunting the need to have your emotions validated at every turn by people who owe you nothing). Grow up.


----------



## LibertyPrime (Dec 17, 2010)

*Ways I'm reactive as 6:*

*1.* I can be shit scared on the inside and confrontational/defensive/offensive on the outside. This is when I may act tough and bark orders, criticise etc.

*2.* I may change behaviour depending on what is expected of me.

*3.* I react to attempts at communicating with me in the same manner as the person initiating the attempt. This means if someone is engaging and frinedly, I will be the same, if they are cold and logical i'll be the same, if they are offensive and such I'll be offensive as well.

*4.* Other stuff may include sudden tendency to argue with people who say bs or spread misinformation, amorality is met with reactivity in the form of fighting it. I may jump to the aide of someone out of nowhere, debate and criticize, call BS etc.

*5. *Attempts of controlling me are met with resistence and willfullness, anger and fear. I won't allow it.

*6. *Anything that troubles me is met head on with figuring out the problem, building a solution and implementing it to make the problem go away. I am tenacious regarding such things and crush every problem in front of me because otherwise the anxiety would kill me. There is an urgent need to "figure it out" to "solve it", which leads to me consuming vast ammounts of information on whatever subject bothers me.

@Boss

That is exactly how I figured out I was a 6 and not a 4. people said I was a 6 and I didn't think so (but there was this uneasyness in me because I saw myself in it...I just couldn't accept being afraid and other 6-ish stuff). So I debated and argued for about 3 months during which I left PerC in anger. I criticised and atacked people on my threads, wrote long articles.....in the end there was no way I was anything but a 6 and the evidence lay clearly in front of me in my posts spanning many monts in defending myself and being reactive, confrontational....and even snapping a few times.

I guess I can say I didn't go down without a fight...I never do. Sometimes I think I can argue a point into the ground....am very willful.


----------



## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

I'm a 7w8, so I'm reactive less of the time, but when I am it goes in phases. I rarely make it past phase 3, but I become reactive at phase 7 and if you reach phase 8....it's on
1) I laugh it off, perhaps retorting with a witty remark
2) if it continues "hun, you're really starting to get on my nerves"
3) I bust out the Ne/Te bitchslap. slamming in their face exactly what they are doing and how they are irrefutably an imbecile (see my last post in this thread for an example of this)
4) generally I'll repeat the last phase 2-3 times (sometimes more. at this point, it often turns into a rational debate and ceases to be a threat to my temper. 85% of problems are related to communication after all)
5) at this point, I have to take a breath and take myself off the stove before I boil over
6) I take a step one last step back, looking again at their intentions and considering the possibility that I may have said something legitimately out of line or that maybe I've misread something
7) last chance, I tell them explicitly what is going to happen to them if they continue
8) "BITCH! I'M GONNA BREAK YOU!!!"


----------



## NingenExp (Apr 4, 2011)

I should not love this thread, but it's quite dear lovable.


----------



## LimeDegree (Mar 6, 2012)

Jawz said:


> I don't think I've ever encountered an actual 468 triader ...


<<It has taken an enormous amount of effort, starting from a young age, to avoid violence. I was certain I would be in prison at some point, because I doubted I'd have the self control to deal with people every single day for years and years. I learned how to avoid most of my triggers, although occasionally someone lights the fuse, and I quickly withdraw from the situation before I can't hold back any more. I suspect many of us multiple-reactive-types end up incarcerated or dead.>>-_I will possibly remove this first paragraph before editing deadline passes.
_ 
I'm primarily 6, with 8 and 4 as the finishers. I can clearly recall all the times I respond with the 6 and the 8 style. However, the 4 style of reaction is rarely, if ever, used in any confrontation. My 6 nature rules out 4 responses because of negative repercussions:

1) People who misunderstand me are less able to predict me, and thus less of a threat. 
2) Arguing to convince someone of my type would create/feed hostility in another person, and thus possibly cause difficulties further down the road.

I would be concerned if someone I trust misunderstands who I am on a deeper level, but that seems really unlikely. This will be the most likely time for me to exhibit the type 4 reaction. I recall this happening some, and it did stress me out, but I was always able to get the trusted person to back down, although in hindsight they probably only did so to keep the peace.

That having been said, I wonder if someone with a Type 4 as a primary would overrule Type 6 responses for some reverse reason.


----------



## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

@Jawz
@Promethea is also a 684, and she is quite articulate when it comes to explaining how this tritype manifests in her. I've never known a 468/486. They'd be an interesting character. I think @Surreal Snake is a 4-X-8. Maybe, his head fix is 5. I am not too sure.


----------



## Chipps (Jun 1, 2011)

brainheart said:


> Maybe that's because many sixes are embarrassed about being reactive while fours might be proud of it, my guess is especially sexual fours.
> Just an idea... (and maybe that's why many sixes are so against being sixes.) I know that my emotions and strength of feeling are something I like about myself, it's kind of the foundation of my being.
> 
> If everyone was being reactiive and everyone liked it, would you be more inclined to be reactive as well? Just curious-


How does one take pride in being reactive? 

Last time I checked, I wasn't embarrassed of my feelings. I just don't act like they are the most complex thing in world. Why? Because they aren't. Anything I can feel, any other human being on the planet can feel. Sorry to break it to you but no one type or person is such a one of a kind, special little snowflake that they're inherently misunderstood.


----------



## BeauGarcon (May 11, 2011)

Chipps said:


> How does one take pride in being reactive?
> 
> Last time I checked, I wasn't embarrassed of my feelings. I just don't act like they are the most complex thing in world. Why? Because they aren't. Anything I can feel, any other human being on the planet can feel. Sorry to break it to you but no one type or person is such a one of a kind, special little snowflake that they're inherently misunderstood.



You can take pride from _everything_.


----------



## Chipps (Jun 1, 2011)

BeauGarcon said:


> You can take pride in _everything_.


Is there no shame left?


I couldn't imagine taking pride in being reactive. I had a few years of being very reactive, and you know what? Im embarrassed at my behavior. I think taking "pride" in it is just a cop out. It gives you an excuse to keep up with the same behavior.


----------



## sodden (Jul 20, 2009)

Chipps said:


> Is there no shame left?
> 
> 
> I couldn't imagine taking pride in being reactive. I had a few years of being very reactive, and you know what? Im embarrassed at my behavior. I think taking "pride" in it is just a cop out. It gives you an excuse to keep up with the same behavior.


I wasn't trying to offend you, I was just theorizing. I just find it interesting what a negative perception reactivity/being reactive gets. I mean, look at how the triads are divided:

Positive/optimistic
Competency
Reactive

I think most people view optimism as a desirable trait, same with competency. Being optimistic is considered a compliment while pessimism is perceived as negative. Similarly, people are often insulted by being called incompetent. Apparently being reactive is perceived in a similar fashion. 

I think this is a great explanation for what it is to be a reactive type, from here:



> The reactive types tend to want to get a reaction from others. When a reactive type is upset, they don't want the other person to stay calm. They want to see their negative emotions mirrored by others. They are often referred to as the "truth tellers of the enneagram" for the simple reason that reactive types *can pick up on the more troubled aspects of a situation before other types do*. If the positive outlook types err by focusing too much on the positive, reactive types can err by focusing too much on the negative. *What they're seeing may, in fact, be there, but what comes across as barely perceptible to other types comes across like a flashing neon sign to the reactive types, and it's very difficult for them to not address it. *


What I bolded I think is especially applicable to this thread. The comment so many others saw as innocuous felt very loaded to me so I reacted (and apparently I wasn't the only one who perceived it that way because a couple of other people also responded). In retrospect, was it appropriate for me to act this way? Potentially no. But it set off a reaction which, as I mentioned before, I typically internalize and examine within myself vs posting. Often it comes out later in my guitar or some similar fashion. One of the things about the internet that can be both particularly telling _and _misinformative is that I will at times act in ways on here I would never act person to person. I suspect it's the same for many people. For example, I probably wouldn't be talking to any of you in the first place (no insult, just facts; I tend to keep to myself and my intimates) and so this is an atypical situation. 

I think it's easy for fours to be picked on because (I hate talking in 'we's, I don't want to speak for all fours but I think it often works this way) we tend to be quiet for the most part, we are often separate/disconnected from the group, entangled in our internal feelings and sensitivity. People often perceive us as being elitist for our distance and our unusual tastes. Often we're actually perceived as unfeeling because it's so internalized. So combine that with our potential to explode with otherwise unseen emotional intensity and we become the ultimate weirdos. And then people find this comical and ridiculous, we feel even more misunderstood and disconnected and we retreat into our shells once again. 

I know many people are going to roll their eyes reading that and think _what a poor whiny baby, what makes you so special?_ But I'm just trying to share with you my point of view, and how I think it is for many fours. And I don't really want to continue on this anymore, because it's depleted me and there are other things that would be a better use of my existence.


----------



## Surreal Snake (Nov 17, 2009)

@Promethea is also a 684, and she is quite articulate when it comes to explaining how this tritype manifests in her. I've never known a 468/486. They'd be an interesting character. I think @Surreal Snake is a 4-X-8. Maybe, his head fix is 5. I am not too sure.[/QUOTE]

Yes Haze my tri is 468..There are probably thousands of 468s if not more.


----------



## paper lilies (Dec 6, 2011)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> you believe it makes me "childish" that I don't understand your feelings, but *what is truly childish is to spew one's emotions and expect people to take them seriously*. the reason why reactive people piss me off is *because they don't take responsibility for their feelings and obligate others to do so instead*.


This is legitimately what came to mind when I read the parts I have bolded:










In any case, I completely agree with you Swordsman of Mana. 
What you wrote is true even without type as a factor.

@Chipps, I just wanted to let you know that I have read your posts in this thread and I have so much respect for how honest and open you are being about your reactivity. It is truly refreshing to see.


----------



## Yee_HD (May 1, 2012)

Boss said:


> @OrangeAppled
> 
> Yes, the reaction is telling. 6s react with outrage rooted in feeling controlled/ severely imposed upon. 4s react from a place of "You just can't understand me..for x,y, z reasons mostly revolving around their own complexity and depth". 6s tend to launch attacks in a more personally hostile fashion than 4s, who can either come across as self-righteously haughty or whiny/guilt tripping.
> 
> And yes, 4s tend to get frustrated and have no trouble walking away misunderstood. It probably reinforces their feelings of difference. 6s usually dig their heels in, and sometimes, become very challenging and confrontational. 4s tend not to get anywhere as aggressive, not in my experience at least. But, I have certainly seen 6s walk away from type me threads. cp6s are more likely to just keep going for 10+ pages...long after the 'battle' (in their perception, type me threads can turn into battlegrounds rather easily) is officially over.


I'm a CP 6 for sure, but what I'm wondering is: Is it a common thing for 6s to not want to commit to an argument/battle, but once you do, you'll damn sure be the one who finishes it? Or is it just something I do/feel?



Rim said:


> *Ways I'm reactive as 6:*
> 
> That is exactly how I figured out I was a 6 and not a 4. *people said I was a 6 and I didn't think so (but there was this uneasyness in me because I saw myself in it...I just couldn't accept being afraid and other 6-ish stuff).* So I debated and argued for about 3 months during which I left PerC in anger. I criticised and atacked people on my threads, wrote long articles.....in the end there was no way I was anything but a 6 and the evidence lay clearly in front of me in my posts spanning many monts in defending myself and being reactive, confrontational....and even snapping a few times.
> 
> I guess I can say I didn't go down without a fight...I never do. Sometimes I think I can argue a point into the ground....am very willful.


Just curious, but what's up with all this bad press about being a 6? Once I was directed to Enneagrams by a friend and got typed as a 6 and saw that it fit me very well, it was more of a relief to understand and therefore be able to work with what I got. Isn't identifying one's weakness half the battle to conquering it?


----------



## Chipps (Jun 1, 2011)

To bring the thread back to the original question, I have some more reactions:


If Im stuck in a situation for whatever reason and I have to take part in the situation, I will become the biggest saboteur in the world. I'll start fucking shit up without you noticing that Im doing it. I will withhold information on how to fix a situation even though I have 5 solutions and feign alot of ignorance. Ill watch you flounder. 

If someone threatens to do something to me, Ill react by calling the bluff everytime. I dont care what it is. If Im mad, I go into "balls to the wall" mode and nothing is too extreme. The craziest always wins, no?

If someone likes me, and wants to potentially date me, I react defensively. Lol. Its almost instant. Like sneaking up on a sleeping dog and startling it. If I dont know you, you better state your intentions very bluntly. Lying wont get past me. If I know you then I will spend ALOT of time watch you and how you interact with other people. I wont return any signs of interest until a person has passed phase one of the test. Even still I remain fairly on guard against them. Walls slowly come down. Very slowly.


----------



## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

@paper lilies

I confess dealing this thread a laughable level of resistance, but it's nice to have someone agree with me
thank you for your support =)


----------



## LibertyPrime (Dec 17, 2010)

Yee_HD said:


> Just curious, but what's up with all this bad press about being a 6? Once I was directed to Enneagrams by a friend and got typed as a 6 and saw that it fit me very well, it was more of a relief to understand and therefore be able to work with what I got. Isn't identifying one's weakness half the battle to conquering it?


Its not the bad press. In my case it was that I'm not paranoid at all, I'm not a traditionalist and don't need or want to be part of groups for security or whatever...I also don't like organizations etc etc and I'm no loyalist. The description didn't hit home, it missed by a lot. I can't see myself in much of the 6 description. Type 4 fits, 1 sx sort of fits, some parts of E9, minus motivation and inner numbness, etc fits...but 6 didn't and I wasn't going to accept it.. because I doubted it. The descriptions also exaggerate fear and anxiety imo. It isn't as bad as they say, I'm not a nervous wreck or a coward and I'm not a hothead who charges before thinking (well okay sometimes I shoot my mouth off and say something stupid that I regret later).

Its just shit descriptions. As an ISTP I can see why you could relate, other ISTJs can as well. I have INFP preferences and I couldn't, because it isn't who I am. Thou I'm not the emotional poetic INFP either.
*
Interesting you are a 6-1-4, same as me.*


----------



## Yee_HD (May 1, 2012)

Rim said:


> Its not the bad press. In my case it was that I'm not paranoid at all, I'm not a traditionalist and don't need or want to be part of groups for security or whatever...I also don't like organizations etc etc and I'm no loyalist. The description didn't hit home, it missed by a lot. I can't see myself in much of the 6 description. Type 4 fits, 1 sx sort of fits, some parts of E9, minus motivation and inner numbness, etc fits...but 6 didn't and I wasn't going to accept it.. because I doubted it. The descriptions also exaggerate fear and anxiety imo. It isn't as bad as they say, I'm not a nervous wreck or a coward and I'm not a hothead who charges before thinking (well okay sometimes I shoot my mouth off and say something stupid that I regret later).
> 
> Its just shit descriptions. As an ISTP I can see why you could relate, other ISTJs can as well. I have INFP preferences and I couldn't, because it isn't who I am. Thou I'm not the emotional poetic INFP either.
> *
> Interesting you are a 6-1-4, same as me.*


Yea, one thing that took me a second longer to accept at first was the fear motivation. I was like, "fear? me? psssh". Of course, immediately afterwards, I launched a research expedition of epic proportions and came to the conclusion that yup, 6 sounds about right. And then I learned about counter-phobic 6s and went, "ohhh" as to why I seem to have fear doing some things that make me nervous. I think a major part of 6s is maybe not literally fear or lots of anxiety, but doubt. 6s like to be devil's advocates, but there's a devil's advocate in my own mind cross-examining my choices and decisions. The reaction I developed was to try to be sure of my decisions before I did anything, but I'm learning to just accept that some things have innate uncertainty and just have to be taken in stride. 

I can relate to the regret outbursts. Especially when I get a little tired and my patience level plummets. I am able to relate mentally to many issues and sides and people, but what about the ISTP exemplifies that? I think you know more than I =D. I wonder if your mind was playing a shell game with you in terms of hiding and rationalizing your 6ness. Oh, and ambivalence. That's a very annoying quality of the 6  Well, sometimes it's good, but damn if it doesn't make it hard to make decisions!

As for the 614, I took a test from a link someone posted on here and got that. I think it fits pretty well, but the descriptions available are pretty limited. 


> _*614
> The Philosopher. Discerning and intuitive 6. This is the most particular 6. This 6 is very creative especially with the 7 wing. They can be torn between the need for meaning and need to be dutiful and responsible. This 6 is often drawn to teaching. *_


I think I have the 7 wing cause I do like to distract myself with things like games so that I can passively think while playing. I have no problem doing what I need to do (duties, work, etc), but I certainly need a good reason. As for teaching, I like sharing my knowledge with other people and I believe I lecture a bit sometimes, only because I wouldn't want to give someone an abbreviated explanation when a thorough one would help them more or at least they'd have it all and can then pick and choose what they need. Other than that, it's a guess. I'm not 100% on the 614 but it seems to work.

Aaaaand, I was also wondering about the bad rep of 6s in general. I'm reading that a lot of people don't like to BE sixes and I'm not sure I understand why. Lots of pros and also cons, that I see. I call it a high energy requirement type because it requires a lot to keep my mind in check and be able to use my analytic thinking to it's fullest. It's pretty much you are what you are and you can pretend otherwise, but it's fruitless.

Ahem. That was kind of long =P


----------



## Impact Calculus (Mar 29, 2012)

paper lilies said:


> This is legitimately what came to mind when I read the parts I have bolded:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You can respect how swordsmanofmana reacts to things because he reacts less? It's apparently more important to outwardly express your "opinion" in a way that many people are likely to find morally repugnant?

Instead of belittling outward reactivity, it would be best for you all to learn to respect what some types are inclined to do. Sarcastically attacking them isn't getting anybody anywhere.

It really doesn't take much, especially when standing side by side to several reactive types within this thread. 

This is especially true when addressing a 4. You don't tell a 4 to never do what a 4 is going to be more inclined to do. Your goal to settle things will then receive serious backlash and that will further increase reactivity for the 4. They will defend their true and existing image to practically no end.


----------



## Yee_HD (May 1, 2012)

Impact Calculus said:


> Instead of belittling outward reactivity, it would be best for you all to learn to respect what some types are inclined to do. Sarcastically attacking them isn't getting anybody anywhere.
> 
> It really doesn't take much, especially when standing side by side to several reactive types within this thread.


So, you are trying to get other people to not tell you (4s) what to do by telling _them _what they should do? Your tone and hypocrisy won't get too far with 6s if not others as well. If you are trying to be well-intentioned, then I apologize, but the way you're saying it is abrasive.



> This is especially true when addressing a 4. You don't tell a 4 to never do what a 4 is going to be more inclined to do. Your goal to settle things will then receive serious backlash and that will further increase reactivity for the 4. They will defend their true and existing image to practically no end.


Types are not boxes to be hiding behind. Every type has their own instinctual reactions. It's up to each individual to learn to control them in order to be civil and social. A type isn't an excuse. If a 4 gets told not to do something and they disagree, then they disagree and continue doing it. No one else loses the right to tell the 4 what not to do, just isn't how it works.


----------



## Paradigm (Feb 16, 2010)

@Yee_HD (and in general)

Reading people's descriptions of 6's reactivity in this thread (both from 6s and non-6s), it made me go "who would do that?!" Not all of it, but a lot of it... I related to @Rim's post the most, but he's much more cp-ish than I am, so even then.


----------



## Yee_HD (May 1, 2012)

Paradigm said:


> @_Yee_HD_ (and in general)
> 
> Reading people's descriptions of 6's reactivity in this thread (both from 6s and non-6s), it made me go "who would do that?!" Not all of it, but a lot of it... I related to @_Rim_ 's post the most, but he's much more cp-ish than I am, so even then.


What'cha referring to, when you say "who would do that?" Are you talking about the "telling others not to do something"?


----------



## Impact Calculus (Mar 29, 2012)

Yee_HD said:


> So, you are trying to get other people to not tell you (4s) what to do by telling _them _what they should do? Your tone and hypocrisy won't get too far with 6s if not others as well. If you are trying to be well-intentioned, then I apologize, but the way you're saying it is abrasive.
> 
> 
> 
> Types are not boxes to be hiding behind. Every type has their own instinctual reactions. It's up to each individual to learn to control them in order to be civil and social. A type isn't an excuse. If a 4 gets told not to do something and they disagree, then they disagree and continue doing it. No one else loses the right to tell the 4 what not to do, just isn't how it works.


Having prejudice against specific types has nothing to do with your personality. Unlike being outwardly reactive, it has nothing to do with who you are. Believe it or not, I never told anybody what to do, and actually addressed that post in a similar way you are addressing mine, and by pointing out things that won't get anybody anywhere. I posted about type 4 because I wanted to contribute to this thread.


I never implied that they were boxes to hide behind. I never shut out the tendency for a 9w1 to peacefully reform. 

Outward reactivity in general was addressed negatively, which is what sparked my post.


----------



## Chipps (Jun 1, 2011)

Lesson to be learned from this thread:

You step on one honey bee and all the others swarm the area. 
=========================================================

I dont think its anyones job to walk on eggshells for anyone here for fear of coming off as "morally repungnant". Especially considering how subjective that is. I could understand if SOM said something out of character, then you could maybe accuse him of trying to provoke a response from the people here. However, he did nothing of the sort. He merely stated an opinion. Should he have stated his opinion differently? 

Okay, lets throw out some other options:


"i dont really like reactive types". 


OR

"reactive types annoy me. "

OR


"i dont particularly care for reactive types. "

My question is this: What the hell is the difference?

Oy vey, I know what reactive type is pissing me off.


----------



## Yee_HD (May 1, 2012)

Impact Calculus said:


> Having prejudice against specific types has nothing to do with your personality. Unlike being outwardly reactive, it has nothing to do with who you are. Believe it or not, I never told anybody what to do, and actually addressed that post in a similar way you are addressing mine, and by pointing out things that won't get anybody anywhere.
> 
> 
> I never implied that they were boxes to hide behind. I never shut out the tendency for a 9w1 to peacefully reform.
> ...


I can agree with you on that. I read your post in an aggressively colored light, and wanted to warn you against adding more fuel to the fire. Apologies.


----------



## Impact Calculus (Mar 29, 2012)

@Yee_HDThanks. I do do things agressivley when I get passionate.@ChippsYes, I think prejudice is bad and the tendency for reactive types to find it morally repugnant has already proven to exist. This isn't about what SOM said though.


----------



## paper lilies (Dec 6, 2011)

Impact Calculus said:


> You can respect how swordsmanofmana reacts to things because he reacts less? It's apparently more important to outwardly express your "opinion" in a way that many people are likely to find morally repugnant?
> 
> Instead of belittling outward reactivity, it would be best for you all to learn to respect what some types are inclined to do. Sarcastically attacking them isn't getting anybody anywhere.
> 
> ...


I normally do not respond to quotes such as these. I was quoted formerly in this thread and ignored the post simply because the memeber saw something completely different within my post than I was trying to convey and I didn't want to write an unnecessary long-winded paragraph that would most likely get me no where.

However, the gif that I posted had nothing to do with "belittling" reactive types. It was a legitimate first-thing that came to mind when I read Swordsman of Mana's post. I was not being any bit sarcastic nor was I trying to attack anyone. You read into my post far too much it seems and thereby came to a conclusion that ultimately was not there.


----------



## Paradigm (Feb 16, 2010)

Yee_HD said:


> What'cha referring to, when you say "who would do that?" Are you talking about the "telling others not to do something"?


Stuff like poisoning a group, creating trouble, tossing out insults if their preconceived notions are wrong. It's mostly CP stuff, though. I'm like 70% phobic, to pick a randomish number, so that's likely a bit of bias.

I'll admit I have done the passive-aggressive "pretending to be the victim" thing in one form or another, but it's always been around legitimately poisonous people (and I know this because other people have pointed out how poisonous they are, without my input). But _I don't start it_. I'm perfectly willing to give chances to people, but if they don't take advantage of it then I largely see it as their own fault. In some/many cases it's been my way of "protecting my people," even; I'm around a lot of passive people who will just "take it" and I don't like to see them (emotionally) harmed. I don't really intervene with these poisonous people if I think the victim can handle themselves.


> I find that Sixes are very adept at playing to the general audience and obtaining the support of other's in _taking down_ their "perceived" antagonists.


But I'm definitely reactive. It's shows the most 1-on-1; in a group I usually either leave or suppress my annoyance (obv. unless poisonous). I've been known to tell people to shut up if they unintentionally said the wrong thing, make a couple snide comments towards someone. Blown up before. I both reflect or become "opposites" to people, depending. I'm still trying to control my reactiveness, but for me it's mostly a case of reconsidering how someone meant what they said/did... I don't believe in "words are just words" and related sayings.


----------



## Impact Calculus (Mar 29, 2012)

paper lilies said:


> I normally do not respond to quotes such as these. I was quoted formerly in this thread and ignored the post simply because the memeber saw something completely different within my post than I was trying to convey and I didn't want to write an unnecessary long-winded paragraph that would most likely get me no where.
> 
> However, the gif that I posted had nothing to do with "belittling" reactive types. It was a legitimate first-thing that came to mind when I read Swordsman of Mana's post. I was not being any bit sarcastic nor was I trying to attack anyone. You read into my post far too much it seems and thereby came to a conclusion that ultimately was not there.


I posted a reflection of what I saw. It's actually great to hear that wasn't a reflection of your intentions.

I still don't think you're going to get much of anywhere by telling 4s that they react too much or telling 5s that they analyze too much.

I know that types aren't boxes, but they contain traits that people will quite often be drawn towards no matter what they do.

I suppose we can all become more evolved in our own light.


----------



## Yee_HD (May 1, 2012)

Paradigm said:


> Stuff like poisoning a group, creating trouble, tossing out insults if their preconceived notions are wrong. It's mostly CP stuff, though. I'm like 70% phobic, to pick a randomish number, so that's likely a bit of bias.
> 
> I'll admit I have done the passive-aggressive "pretending to be the victim" thing in one form or another, but it's always been around legitimately poisonous people (and I know this because other people have pointed out how poisonous they are, without my input). But _I don't start it_. I'm perfectly willing to give chances to people, but if they don't take advantage of it then I largely see it as their own fault. In some/many cases it's been my way of "protecting my people," even; I'm around a lot of passive people who will just "take it" and I don't like to see them (emotionally) harmed. I don't really intervene with these poisonous people if I think the victim can handle themselves.


Hmm, are you sure I'm part of that group? I can be nasty and mean and utterly vindictive, but only if I'm attacked and legitimately provoked. And I usually make completely sure of it, because once I commit, so go all in. I don't insult or make trouble with people simply because they disagree though. I like learning and proven wrong, cause that's part of learning.


----------



## Paradigm (Feb 16, 2010)

Yee_HD said:


> Hmm, are you sure I'm part of that group? I can be nasty and mean and utterly vindictive, but only if I'm attacked and legitimately provoked. And I usually make completely sure of it, because once I commit, so go all in. I don't insult or make trouble with people simply because they disagree though. I like learning and proven wrong, cause that's part of learning.


Same here. Except I guess I don't really consciously make a "all in" choice, I just go, "...Wtf are you doing? RAWR."
I don't mind being proven wrong, but I get really pissed off if someone insults me while doing so. An insult in any manner.

I'm not sure which group you mean, though. Are you asking if you're 6? Because I don't know you well enough to say :laughing: I (jokingly) asked @Boss if I was really a 6 after reading these unhealthy/reactive 6 tendencies, if that helps... That's how surprising they were to me.


----------



## Yee_HD (May 1, 2012)

Yee_HD said:


> _What'cha referring to, when you say "who would do that?" Are you talking about the "telling others not to do something"?
> _
> 
> 
> ...


You tagged my name in a reply and I wasn't quite sure if you were saying I poison a group, make trouble, etc. Or if you were saying that us 6s can be ruthless in counter-attacking? I'm just confused lol



Paradigm said:


> Same here. Except I guess I don't really consciously make a "all in" choice, I just go, "...Wtf are you doing? RAWR."
> I don't mind being proven wrong, but I get really pissed off if someone insults me while doing so. An insult in any manner.
> 
> I'm not sure which group you mean, though. Are you asking if you're 6? Because I don't know you well enough to say :laughing: I (jokingly) asked @_Boss_ if I was really a 6 after reading these unhealthy/reactive 6 tendencies, if that helps... That's how surprising they were to me.


I've learned enough about myself that I try my best not to do anything without putting it through a filter first. If it all checks out and I'm justified and it's reasonable, then I continue. Too many instances of making a fool out of myself cause I say something silly or overreact =P For unhealthy tendencies, once I get tired out, I find it incredibly easy to be critical, snide, sarcastic and all that good stuff


----------



## Paradigm (Feb 16, 2010)

Yee_HD said:


> You tagged my name in a reply and I wasn't quite sure if you were saying I poison a group, make trouble, etc. Or if you were saying that us 6s can be ruthless in counter-attacking? I'm just confused lol


Oh sorry! I thought you said you had a hard time relating to the reactivity and I was saying in a round-about way that I agreed with you...



> I've learned enough about myself that I try my best not to do anything without putting it through a filter first. If it all checks out and I'm justified and it's reasonable, then I continue. Too many instances of making a fool out of myself cause I say something silly or overreact =P For unhealthy tendencies, once I get tired out, I find it incredibly easy to be critical, snide, sarcastic and all that good stuff


Haha, me too xD


----------



## Yee_HD (May 1, 2012)

Paradigm said:


> Oh sorry! I thought you said you had a hard time relating to the reactivity and I was saying in a round-about way that I agreed with you...


Oh no, that wasn't me, unless I implied it unintentionally. I find it pretty easy to relate to anyone in a "I can see it from your point of view" way. It's kind of fun. Oh, and I'm sure someone has said or mentioned it, but 6s make fantastic manipulators as a result of being able to relate. I don't do it cause healthy 6s hate the concept of manipulation, but I can see how easily I could do it if I wanted to haha.


----------



## OrangeAppled (Jun 26, 2009)

brainheart said:


> I think this is a great explanation for what it is to be a reactive type, from here:
> 
> 
> 
> > The reactive types tend to want to get a reaction from others. When a reactive type is upset, they don't want the other person to stay calm. They want to see their negative emotions mirrored by others. *They are often referred to as the "truth tellers of the enneagram" for the simple reason that reactive types can pick up on the more troubled aspects of a situation before other types do. *If the positive outlook types err by focusing too much on the positive, reactive types can err by focusing too much on the negative. *What they're seeing may, in fact, be there, but what comes across as barely perceptible to other types comes across like a flashing neon sign to the reactive types*, and it's very difficult for them to not address it.


I agree this is the positive aspect of being a reactive type... I will elaborate on this, in terms of being a 4 anyway, by saying that this reactiveness, which is basically a heightened emotional sensitivity, is precisely what makes the 4s so heavily associated with being talented artists & exceptionally empathetic. When you pick up on nuances that others do not, when these subtleties others miss highlight major truths, then you discover unique insights into people & life. Reacting means you've noted these things enough to regard their full meaning, whereas others have missed it & therefore miss all of the insight that goes along with it. This reactiveness then can have great value in terms of morality, art, beauty, human relationships, self-understanding, etc. This definitely means that some people feel & see quite differently from others; what else is the artist, the poet, the writer, etc, if not unique in their insights? These are not average joes with typical perspectives on life. 

I'm reminded of this quote I read recently from e4 Shirley Manson (of Garbage), regarding "hypersensitivity":



> *It's a form of intelligence in a funny way; you’re reading things that most people are blind or deaf to.*


I think this DOES have a positive side, where you see beauty & truth in things others are not sensitive enough to pick up on. You're aware of violations too, including moral violations, destruction of beauty, warping of truth in the popular opinions, etc. 1 integration means taking a stand against these. You're not asking people to take responsibility for _your_ feelings; you're asking them to take responsibility for _their_ actions & words, which have violated something significant, something they're trying to brush off as trivial because they don't want to take that personal responsibility. People will use "sensitivity" as a convenient way to avoid taking responsibility. It's akin to throwing a rock at someone's head & then telling them it's their own fault their head hurts. 

Sure, it's turbulent to be reactive, but it's also passionate, creative, insightful, and courageous in many ways. What is the real opposite of "reactive""? I'd say it's "inactive", or someone who says stagnant because nothing moves them enough to create, change or cause change.

This is the 4 kind of reactivity anyway....

Let's look at some synonyms for "reactive" too:

Definition: _quick to react _
Synonyms: _*acknowledging, active, alive, answering, awake, aware, compassionate, conscious, forthcoming*, impressionable, influenceable, *kindhearted, open, passionate, perceptive*, persuadable, *receptive, replying, respondent, sensible, sensile, sensitive, sentient, sharp, softhearted,* susceptible, susceptive,* sympathetic, tender, warm, warmhearted* 
_
Definition: _sensitive_
Synonyms: _*acute, cognizant, conscious*, delicate, easily affected, emotionable, emotional, feeling, fine, high-strung, hung up, hypersensitive, impressible, impressionable, irritable, *keen, knowing,* nervous, oversensitive, *perceiving, perceptive*, precarious, *precise, psychic, receptive*, responsive, *seeing, sensatory, sensible, sensile, sensorial, sensory, sentient*, supersensitive, susceptible, tense, ticklish, touchy, touchy feely, tricky,* tuned in, turned on to*, umbrageous, *understanding*, unstable, wired_

There's a lot of good stuff in there, to me.....and even the neutrals or negatives can have a positive side. Take "delicate"; this can mean being delicate with others too, being sensitive _towards_ them. 

In contrast, to _not_ be reactive...

Antonyms: _*insensitive, unresponsive*, unsusceptible _




Chipps said:


> I dont think its anyones job to walk on eggshells for anyone here for fear of coming off as "morally repungnant". Especially considering how subjective that is. I could understand if SOM said something out of character, then you could maybe accuse him of trying to provoke a response from the people here. However, he did nothing of the sort. He merely stated an opinion. *Should he have stated his opinion differently? *


No, it's a matter of being off-topic & having no justifiable reason for being so, which was mentioned several pages ago. This thread is not asking for opinions of whether you like a type or a trait associated with that type or not. At best, such a comment is off-topic & irrelevant, at worst, it's attention-whoring & trollish. Of course, it's not out of character for a 7 to be that way :tongue:, which is why ascribing the latter motive is perfectly fair.

For those who apparently cannot read, the title of this thread is: _Reactive Triad: How Do You React?_

Now, if the thread title was: _Attention-Whoring 7s, Troll People with Your Irrelevant Opinions_, then the comment would be actually be on-topic. :wink:


----------



## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

Boss said:


> Promethea had mentioned wanting to create a thread about Typing Etiquette for Typers and Typees. I'd be very interested in starting this thread or contributing to it. If you have time, since it was your idea, I look forward to seeing such a thread from you. If you're busy atm, let me know, I'd be happy to create one.


promethea often has good intentions and often no follow-through.. 
x_x

i will get to it. i'm open to anything you want to add to it, or whatever.


----------



## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Impact Calculus said:


> You can respect how swordsmanofmana reacts to things because he reacts less? It's apparently more important to outwardly express your "opinion" in a way that many people are likely to find morally repugnant?
> Instead of belittling outward reactivity, it would be best for you all to learn to respect what some types are inclined to do. Sarcastically attacking them isn't getting anybody anywhere.
> It really doesn't take much, especially when standing side by side to several reactive types within this thread.
> This is especially true when addressing a 4. You don't tell a 4 to never do what a 4 is going to be more inclined to do. Your goal to settle things will then receive serious backlash and that will further increase reactivity for the 4. They will defend their true and existing image to practically no end.


why are you talking about reactive responses like they're something you can't control? you _can_ control them and it is your responsibility to do so. 

I am a 7, I have a tendency to procrastinate and exhibit escapist tendencies, but it is my responsibility to bear the consequences of these tendencies. just like it is the responsibility of an 8 to control his temper and the responsibility of a 5 to bear the consequences of being fearful of taking action/missing opportunities. if you are attempting to use the enneagram to excuse your own weaknesses as "oh, that's just me being a 4" you are using it incorrectly and irresponsibly. 

your statement sounds like a 10 year old trying to justify his "right" to kick, scream and throw angry tantrums and insulting tangents at people. the only difference is, after a certain age, it's just not cute anymore. demanding respect for such behavior is no different than the child in my example demanding respect for his behavior. 

another point I'd like to make is that you seem to be confusing the difference between stating an opinion and making a reactive personal attack. they are NOT the same thing.


----------



## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

@OrangeAppled and others

I am not sure why there should be 'justifiable' reason for saying that reactive people piss someone off. I don't see this statement as troll-ish in the least, nor is it 'attention-whoring'. If all the reactive-triaders who've been reacting their lil reactive butts off over a single statement are so offended by the 'troll', why haven't they stopped feeding said troll? *And, it's absolutely ridiculous to point out that his statement was 'off-topic', when all comments attacking a simple statement (with people going so far as to hurl ad hominems at SOM) have been the major cause of thread derail. * Pot calling the kettle black and shit. It's gotten stale. *yawn* Hypocritical much?

As far as this genteel lil idea of 'offensiveness' goes, I find it far more offensive that personal attacks have been made against him for saying that reactive people piss him off. So far, he has been called belligerent, a spewer of 'morally repugnant' comments, an attention whore and a troll. I am probably missing a few other baseless pseudo-accusations. Get off your high horses and stop being disrespectful, especially when you've been whining all over the place about 'offensiveness'. 

Fine, it's a thread for reactive triaders and others to comment upon the reactive triad. The thread title doesn't say "*Reactive Triaders: Lose your shit at the drop of a hanky and soak the place in passive aggressive drivel"* either. 

For the record, the seven isn't winning the attention whore/troll title here at all. And, no points for guessing who _is_.

Why get defensive and *personal * over a simple comment? The only good thing is that it's demonstrating the petty reactiveness of the some of the members of the reactive triad. It's incredibly lame and immature.


----------



## Yee_HD (May 1, 2012)

Boss said:


> @_OrangeAppled_ and others
> 
> I am not sure why there should be 'justifiable' reason for saying that reactive people piss someone off. I don't see this statement as troll-ish in the least, nor is it 'attention-whoring'. If all the reactive-triaders who've been reacting their lil reactive buts off over a single statement are so offended by the 'troll', why haven't they stopped feeding said troll? *And, it's absolutely ridiculous to point out that his statement was 'off-topic', when all comments attacking a simple statement (with people going so far as to hurl ad hominems at SOM) have been the major cause of thread derail. * Pot calling the kettle black and shit. It's gotten stale. *yawn* Hypocritical much?
> 
> ...


I find the whole fuss over his simple statement to be very interesting. It's when people overreact that you get a sense of who they are =) Honestly, it's his opinion and if he finds reactive types distasteful, so be it. It's not like it really personally affects you and he wasn't singling out anyone in particular. You're just allowing yourself to get worked up over nothing. It is very educational though, to see how people are interpreting his words and what tangent they go off on.


----------



## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

@OrangeAppled 


> No, it's a matter of being off-topic & having no justifiable reason for being so, which was mentioned several pages ago. This thread is not asking for opinions of whether you like a type or a trait associated with that type or not. At best, such a comment is off-topic & irrelevant, at worst, it's attention-whoring & trollish. Of course, it's not out of character for a 7 to be that way , which is why ascribing the latter motive is perfectly fair.
> For those who apparently cannot read, the title of this thread is: Reactive Triad: How Do You React?
> Now, if the thread title was: Attention-Whoring 7s, Troll People with Your Irrelevant Opinions, then the comment would be actually be on-topic.


attention whoring troll? lol this thread has been filled with baseless ad homimem (looks other direction), emotional barrages and hypocritical attempts at guilty tripping and trying to assume moral high ground and _I'm_ and attention whoring troll? 
this thread has now provided enough evidence for me to turn my original statement into the subject of a college dissertation. I love it


----------



## Nonconsensus (May 19, 2011)

n2freedom said:


> This discussion started in another thread and is being moved here so as not to derail the thread in which it started.


Interesting thread.


TBH I am confused at the definition of "reactive" of "reactive triad" in this thread. From what I understand, this reactivity is more about noticing something and wanting to have it "mirrored" and validated (as in, accepted as possibly true/existing and not the "you must agree with me" stance) in reality.

(I don't really agree with the whole positive/reactive/competence thing though it seems to make sense, but that's another issue altogether.)

I think the last few pages of "reactivity" wasn't really about reactivity. It was about assuming and making value judgments prematurely, and then continuing the subject in that light. Reactivity in itself is a neutral quality to me, but it's the other things getting into the mix that makes it...well, what it becomes.




brainheart said:


> I know many people are going to roll their eyes reading that and think what a poor whiny baby, what makes you so special? But I'm just trying to share with you my point of view, and how I think it is for many fours. And I don't really want to continue on this anymore, because it's depleted me and there are other things that would be a better use of my existence.


I did not agree with your initial response to SOM, but I do appreciate this post you've written.


----------



## Yee_HD (May 1, 2012)

Nonconsensus said:


> Interesting thread.
> 
> 
> TBH I am confused at the definition of "reactive" of "reactive triad" in this thread. From what I understand, this reactivity is more about noticing something and wanting to have it "mirrored" and validated (as in, accepted as possibly true/existing and not the "you must agree with me" stance) in reality.
> ...


From what I've read, the reactive triad are the types 4, 6, and 8. the reactive is both something the triad does and wants from people. They react emotionally just like you would think the term means and want to see it mirrored, if just a little bit, in order to feel validated and then are able to cool down a bit. They also tend to do/say things that get a reaction from other people because reactions sometimes bypass planned responses.


----------



## marzipan01 (Jun 6, 2010)

This thread turned into a frothing cauldron of reactivity and obviously I am no exception. lol. 

@*Nonconsensus,*as someone already pointed out, the enneagram can be broken up into: reactive, optimistic, and competency seeking motives in each section. 

There is one reactive ennea-type in the body/instinct (8) one in the heart (4) and one in the mind (6).

There is one optimistic ennea-type in the body/instinct (9) one in the heart (2) one in the mind (7).

There is one competency seeking ennea-type in the body/instinct (1) one in the heart (3) and one in the mind (5). 

So, if someone discovers that they desire perfection, the question becomes: what kind of perfection?
Perfection as an instinct or gut reaction to seek perfection and order = type 1. 
Perfection as in perfect image or appearance to others = type 3. 
Perfection as in perfect knowledge (desire to know all/be expert) = type 5.

If someone discovers that they are quick to react to the external input (ex. someone's words or actions can stimulate a quick reaction in the person), the question becomes: what part of the external environment are you reacting to?

If the person finds that they react quickly to the emotional affronts/image issues (heart) that correlates to type 4.
If they react quickly with a gut instinct to anything that infringes upon the personal boundaries (i.e. anger) that correlates to type 8. 
If they react quickly to anything that touches upon their insecurities, fears, etc. that correlates to type 6.

If someone realizes that they are an optimist, they might consider where they look for optimism. 

If the person tries to find the silver lining in everything to the point where they might simplify information/overlook the possible negative reality that correlates to type 9.
If the person is generally optimistic about the worth of other human beings and likes them/loves them right off the bat without a second thought (i.e. optimistic heart) that correlates to type 2. 
If the person is optimistic about the future, future plans, awesome things that they are going to do, and everything is going to ultimately turn out and be a heck of a lot of fun, etc. that correlates to type 7.


@_Jawz_, I think you raise an interesting point about the 468 compatibility with the 369. I have personally found myself annoyed when people just "blend in" with whatever is happening or blame things on their upbringing. I like to believe that everyone has free will and I've personally never understood the whole "blending in" concept. At best, I stay quiet. Even then, eventually, something inevitably gives me away as an "outsider."

*@**Swordsman of Mana *I disagree that "reactive" enneatypes can control their reactivity. While it is possible and desirable to control how one behaves in response to their initial reaction, ultimately, it is not possible to control the emotions/reactions themselves. However, it is possible to put in a second step in the deliberation process which filters one's immediate response to what the person in question is seeing/feeling/thinking. At any rate, this seems like something you should know already considering the fact that you wrote "your opinion" without the filter of "how this might make other people feel"---you have just as much responsibility as anyone else. You are not exempt. But I'm sure you already know that.


----------



## Impact Calculus (Mar 29, 2012)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> why are you talking about reactive responses like they're something you can't control? you _can_ control them and it is your responsibility to do so. I am a 7, I have a tendency to procrastinate and exhibit escapist tendencies, but it is my responsibility to bear the consequences of these tendencies. just like it is the responsibility of an 8 to control his temper and the responsibility of a 5 to bear the consequences of being fearful of taking action/missing opportunities. if you are attempting to use the enneagram to excuse your own weaknesses as "oh, that's just me being a 4" you are using it incorrectly and irresponsibly. your statement sounds like a 10 year old trying to justify his "right" to kick, scream and throw angry tantrums and insulting tangents at people. the only difference is, after a certain age, it's just not cute anymore. demanding respect for such behavior is no different than the child in my example demanding respect for his behavior. another point I'd like to make is that you seem to be confusing the difference between stating an opinion and making a reactive personal attack. they are NOT the same thing.


Oh the irony. You inconsiderately misjudged my post. You created a baseless argument due to being inconsiderate. Now you're bringing back a dually baseless and stupid argument that died days ago? And when you decide to do this you don't consider the replies I've made to justify that post? Really? I mean, come on man. If you want me to explain how horrifically ironic that is, feel free to pm me. Skimming through my post doesn't make yours any more warranted and comparing people to 10 year olds doesn't make you any more mature.


----------



## NingenExp (Apr 4, 2011)

Reactive types: How Do You React Against Impersonal Opinions? And How Do you Keep On Talking About The Same Shit? Move on, guys, move on!!!


----------



## marzipan01 (Jun 6, 2010)

NingenExp said:


> Reactive types: How Do You React Against Impersonal Opinions? And How Do you Keep On Talking About The Same Shit? Move on, guys, move on!!!


Define "impersonal"


----------



## SilentScream (Mar 31, 2011)

@marzipan01 --- My experience in life is that everyone lies. Even the ones who think they're telling the truth. all it takes is belief in what one's saying for it to become the truth even if they're actually lying. Belief is a powerful thing.


----------



## marzipan01 (Jun 6, 2010)

Jawz said:


> @_marzipan01_ --- My experience in life is that everyone lies. Even the ones who think they're telling the truth. all it takes is belief in what one's saying for it to become the truth even if they're actually lying. Belief is a powerful thing.


Yeah, that's a pretty disturbing idea that I can attest to and it's the reason I question even my most basic assumptions.
I remember once, it was a morning in spring. I sat on the porch watching the light dance on the water trickling from the melting snow bank. 
I wondered: where did this porch come from? Where am I? Who am I? What do I know? 
I couldn't answer any of the questions. 
My mind stuttered and I began to list off what I believed: 
"I am on a planet called earth..."

Point is, we're all just making guesses, some guesses are founded on more data than others. 
At any rate, I went back and looked at what I said to you because I didn't recall saying anything about lying and it looks like, according to the post that I just saw, what I wrote to you has nothing in it about lying. So, while it is a very interesting discussion piece, I'm wondering where it came from.

Oh, I think perhaps you were offended by the remark about "blend in." I apologize, it was not my intention to make a value judgement, I was merely trying to understand how the tri-types might have issues with each other.


----------



## SilentScream (Mar 31, 2011)

@marzipan01 --- when you said "blend in" - the implication there is inauthenticity, and usually the assumption surrounding "blending in" is that people consider those who do to be lying/fake.


----------



## marzipan01 (Jun 6, 2010)

Jawz said:


> @_marzipan01_ --- when you said "blend in" - the implication there is inauthenticity, and usually the assumption surrounding "blending in" is that people consider those who do to be lying/fake.


Wow, impeccable timing. I just edited my previous post before I saw yours. 

Authenticity is an interesting topic. I did not mean to imply that "blending in" meant "less authentic."

There are definite merits to "blending in" I'm just saying, even when I try to blend in, I can't. It's not conscious. I actually don't know how. So, I didn't mean to apply a value to it or make any other conclusion about it.

Although, in hindsight, I may have been a bit irritated at that moment. Political science pushes my buttons in frustrating ways. It's finals week. Apologies.


----------



## SilentScream (Mar 31, 2011)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> @_OrangeAppled_
> 
> 
> attention whoring troll? lol this thread has been filled with baseless ad homimem (looks other direction), emotional barrages and hypocritical attempts at guilty tripping and trying to assume moral high ground and _I'm_ and attention whoring troll?
> this thread has now provided enough evidence for me to turn my original statement into the subject of a college dissertation. I love it


I also think that it's just too tempting to live up to the stereotype ..."Ooh .. I'm reactive triad .. so I better react otherwise maybe someone will think that I'm not a reactive triader o.0" xD


----------



## NingenExp (Apr 4, 2011)

marzipan01 said:


> Define "impersonal"


"Having no personal reference or connection", at least, it was impersonal at the beggining and it has turned into a battlefield since then. I was trying to put things "in order", to ease them up.


----------



## Impact Calculus (Mar 29, 2012)

@Jawz 6s are prone to deviate and 4s are prone to be authentic, so I doubt that either would try and blend in. 8s might, but that isn't really down their alley either. I'm also not quite sure I've heard of people "acting" reactive.


----------



## Nonconsensus (May 19, 2011)

Yee_HD said:


> From what I've read, the reactive triad are the types 4, 6, and 8. the reactive is both something the triad does and wants from people. They react emotionally just like you would think the term means and want to see it mirrored, if just a little bit, in order to feel validated and then are able to cool down a bit. They also tend to do/say things that get a reaction from other people because reactions sometimes bypass planned responses.





marzipan01 said:


> @*Nonconsensus,*as someone already pointed out, the enneagram can be broken up into: reactive, optimistic, and competency seeking motives in each section...


Thanks all, that was clear.


@marzipan01
Although your comment that reactive ennea-types cannot control their reactivity is directed to SOM, I thought I'd share what I think. As a 4, I pick up on and have internal reactions towards a lot of things that I sometimes think it's a curse to notice, and I often have to physically remove myself from certain scenes to get rid of all these. Even so, I do think the actions tied to the reactivity can be modified. It's probably what you've mentioned about the second step of the deliberation process. I think learning to set boundaries, gaining a wider perspective and accepting personal accountability are often good ways to start, or at least that's been working for me so far. The only thing I don't know if it's good or bad is my tendency to completely shut out others when the internal storms get too heavy - I personally don't find it a bad thing...


----------

