# Brokenhearted and hopeless



## Washy (Nov 23, 2014)

I lost my infj girlfriend in october of 2014 due to my poor mental health. There is no one like her. I never knew someone like her existed before. Her looks, even with no makeup, was absolutely perfect. Her personality was so unique and wonderful; I've never known something like it before. She was so bright and full of life and made me so happy. I haven't talked to her in 4 months since the breakup but made the mistake of looking at her facebook page today, and my heart started pounding and body started shaking from the shock of seeing her face and her name on the screen. I then made another mistake and looked at her pictures and I was reminded of how she has the most gorgeous face I've ever seen and I saw the beautiful person she is inside shine out of the glowing smile on her face. I'm so hopeless. Simply the look of her makes me happy. I can't live or be happy without her. Life has been so dark and bleak ever since we stopped talking. I've never been that close to somebody before and have never felt this hopeless and lonely before. I feel 100% confident I'll never find someone I like more than her. I pray everyday for her to come back to me and if that can't happen, I'd rather be dead. Life is completely meaningless without her. My body is still shaking uncontrollably. I almost had a panic attack looking at her profile. I really have no idea what to do right now. Day after day is a smothering hell and I can never stop thinking about her. I wish I could put into words how she makes me feel. I've only met one person in my entire life with a personality that compatible and similar to mine but it was a guy that I was best friends with. I then somehow found that in the most beautiful woman on the planet and lost her. There's no other women for me. I can't take what I'm experiencing right now and don't want to live another day without her.


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## Gifford Maxim (May 9, 2013)

Whoa! :shocked: I was going to comment on your last thread, even though from the tone of your last post it seemed like you would be going away and thinking about things for a while, but I will reply to this thread instead.

It sounds to me like you are panicking, in the throes of despair and loss. You need to find a center of calm, focus on something which will bring you peace. Prayer is excellent at this, meditation too. If you have somewhere quiet around, in nature, going there might help. Trying to work through what you're feeling while the emotion is swirling around, choking you, is like trying to climb up a mountain while it's in the middle of a landslide. For your own well-being, please, take a moment to catch your breath, calm yourself. The world is not going to end tomorrow, and as I've seen on your previous thread, you are a Christian, so even if the world does end, I'll go out on a limb here and say that you believe that you will meet this girl in the next life. Although this is a stressful situation, try to focus on what you can do *right now, right this very minute, *and put first things first. As a close friend who shares my beliefs told me, "You've got eternity to find that special someone and be with them; right now, you're thinking like a mortal." Being without her right now, as painful as it is, is not indicative of being without her, or someone just as special as her (perhaps more so), permanently.

I have a few questions for you:

Why haven't you talked to her in 4 months?

If the breakup was due to your poor mental health, are you doing anything now to improve that?

What are your strengths? Going by what I read in your previous threads, I know you have self-esteem issues, but even still, you must have areas or traits which you identify in yourself as being worthy of maintaining or perpetuating.

Also, quick backstory on me: I am an INFJ who was lovestruck with an INTP I met a few years ago. We had a short, but intense, long-distance relationship. Like you, I was absolutely engulfed by her; I found her beauty, her intellect, her understanding and humor and empathy to be otherworldly, totally unlike anything I had seen in any other person. It truly felt like she was on her own level. When we broke up, in large part due to emotional dysfunction on my part, I was devastated and spent the next year and a half doing my utmost to bring us back together again. So, yes, I think can understand where you're coming from.


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## Washy (Nov 23, 2014)

@Gifford Maxim Thank you. I just resorted to a few shots which was stupid but this is such a hellish feeling. Yes, I will see her in the next life, but it feels so far away and there's no marriage in heaven, though I would feel euphoric knowing her in heaven as if we were kids happy together with no romantic feelings existing. She brings me the same joy that my childhood friends brought me, which is something I have never felt as a young adult before. She is so rare and so unique, no one will give off that unique glow that captivates me with happiness like she did. I just don't know how to possibly face this. I am utterly hopeless and can't keep fantasies of how happy we'd be together away. The compatibility we had and the way we could share each other's soul was something beyond what I could ever imagine. It's like I've had a taste of heaven and then sent to hell.



Gifford Maxim said:


> Why haven't you talked to her in 4 months?


We broke up and went no contact.



> If the breakup was due to your poor mental health, are you doing anything now to improve that?


Yes, I am trying very hard. I am seeing a therapist, reading self-help books, trying to improve my faith (not going well unfortunately), and trying so hard to change my thinking patterns and stop negative thoughts...like CBT. She had enough of my mood problems and that's why it didn't work out.



> What are your strengths? Going by what I read in your previous threads, I know you have self-esteem issues, but even still, you must have areas or traits which you identify in yourself as being worthy of maintaining or perpetuating.


I believe I have strengths, though it's often very hard to see them. I went through this with my therapist last appointment; she was having me talk about the positive things about myself and she wants me to do that every day but I've been forgetting.



> Also, quick backstory on me: I am an INFJ who was lovestruck with an INTP I met a few years ago. We had a short, but intense, long-distance relationship. Like you, I was absolutely engulfed by her; I found her beauty, her intellect, her understanding and humor and empathy to be otherworldly, totally unlike anything I had seen in any other person. It truly felt like she was on her own level. When we broke up, in large part due to emotional dysfunction on my part, I was devastated and spent the next year and a half doing my utmost to bring us back together again. So, yes, I think can understand where you're coming from.


Sounds exactly like me, except I'm ISFP and she was INFJ. I hope you're okay. Can you relate to this special kind of happiness I'm talking about? It's so hard for me to put it into words. It was just so magical, like some kind of fantasy. She is the perfect match for me. How can I be happy with someone else if she was perfect? These thoughts in my mind are a living hell. I would give up everything I have to be with her forever.


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## animalfromthesea (Nov 19, 2014)

I'd like to start first by saying that i am so sorry for you (break ups are always hard). I completely understand how you're feeling, but if there's anything i've learned in life is that you can be happy with *or* without someone you love. Not trying to sound to intrusive, but would you mind answering a few questions?

What exactly is your mental condition?
Have you tried talking to someone IRL (friends, family, therapist,...)?
If you gain control over your mental condition, is there any chance she might take you back?
I know you have lost contact with her, but have you tried meeting her face to face?

I really hope you get better not only for the sake of your relationship but also for yourself. You obviously seem to have strong feelings for her and i hope that you'll manage to work things out with her.
Good luck


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## Gifford Maxim (May 9, 2013)

Disclaimer: This is a wall of text and I know that and I am so, so sorry. :bored: Breaking this up into two parts because I feel bad about flooding a post with mountains of words.



Washy said:


> @_Gifford Maxim_ Thank you. I just resorted to a few shots which was stupid but this is such a hellish feeling. Yes, I will see her in the next life, but it feels so far away and there's no marriage in heaven, though I would feel euphoric knowing her in heaven as if we were kids happy together with no romantic feelings existing. She brings me the same joy that my childhood friends brought me, which is something I have never felt as a young adult before. She is so rare and so unique, no one will give off that unique glow that captivates me with happiness like she did. I just don't know how to possibly face this. I am utterly hopeless and can't keep fantasies of how happy we'd be together away. The compatibility we had and the way we could share each other's soul was something beyond what I could ever imagine. It's like I've had a taste of heaven and then sent to hell.


You're very welcome. The shots might dull the pain for the time being, but I would still suggest that you strive to find that center of peace and tranquility; I don't indulge in alcohol myself, but from what I know, when the buzz wears off, you still have the same problems staring you in the face, and, depending on how much you did, a hangover.

No marriage in heaven?  I forget that other sects have different views on that; I'm LDS, so, for our doctrine, marriage is eternal. Your point about being euphoric is interesting, I will address that and the rest of the thoughts in this first paragraph a little later. 




Washy said:


> We broke up and went no contact.
> 
> 
> Yes, I am trying very hard. I am seeing a therapist, reading self-help books, trying to improve my faith (not going well unfortunately), and trying so hard to change my thinking patterns and stop negative thoughts...like CBT. She had enough of my mood problems and that's why it didn't work out.
> ...


If you both decided on no contact, I would say you need to do more work on yourself before you contact her; I wasn't sure if you had decided not to contact her, of your own volition, or if she had explicitly asked you not to contact her. The sentiments from this post tell me that you are interested in improving yourself, which is good, very good. roud: However, I'm still not sure if you are committed to improving yourself for _your_ sake or for _her_ sake, and that's what concerns me. Seeing a therapist is good, reading self-help books is good, trying to improve your faith also good. However, and this may be me as an INFJ, needing to see the why in something before I really commit myself to it, unless you have a fairly good idea, or even a decent notion, of what's good and needs to stay/be improved upon and what's bad and needs to be removed, you're going to be lost. Good book for you to read: _The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. _In the first chapter alone, the author discusses how we all have paradigms, that is, worldviews, biases, and beliefs which motivate us to encourage/discourage things, pursue certain ideals over others, &c. That paradigm is like a road map; if you're using a map of Chicago to get to Nashville, you're going to be utterly lost, even if you're following the map perfectly. Conversely, if you try to go to Nashville without any kind of map (pretending for a moment that we don't live in an age of GPS or Google Maps :tongue, you will have a devil of a time getting to your destination. You might get there, but you're more likely to not get there at all.




Washy said:


> Sounds exactly like me, except I'm ISFP and she was INFJ. I hope you're okay. Can you relate to this special kind of happiness I'm talking about? It's so hard for me to put it into words. It was just so magical, like some kind of fantasy. She is the perfect match for me. How can I be happy with someone else if she was perfect? These thoughts in my mind are a living hell. I would give up everything I have to be with her forever.


The special kind of happiness I can relate to, yes. It honestly felt like she completed me, understood me on a deep, meaningful level I'd never found in any other person. For the first time in my life, someone who I cared about deeply, someone who I loved being around, loved getting to know, *noticed *me. She saw exactly who I was, without me having to make excuses or apologies for who I was, what I had suffered, or what I lacked, and the person she saw was someone she found very intriguing. When we got into the relationship, that intrigue evolved to love; she saw exactly who I was and loved that person, loved *me.* I didn't have to put on masks or hide parts of myself, I could just be me and get that focus, that love, that care and attention.

Talking about the euphoria from earlier in your post and the other thoughts you've expressed here, I can tell that you're in the middle of that happiness. It's been just over 1.5 years since the breakup (for those paying attention at home, yes, I only recently just stopped trying to get her and myself back together) and I still get the biggest kind of kick out of that connection we had. I don't have to jump through hoops, I don't have to feel misunderstood, and what's crazy and awesome and unique about everything is that she does it seemingly without effort. She just _knows_ me, and she loves that and I love that and she never has to feel like she has to bend over backwards to do that.

All that being said, I have a few more questions and a few more points for you.

You believe you have strengths, though it's very hard to see them; you sometimes forget to identify the good things in yourself. Do you find that you will, far and above, focus on the bad things in yourself before you even notice the good? Do you have a problem with being too hard on yourself, beating yourself up?


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## Gifford Maxim (May 9, 2013)

(Continued from my previous post)

You've noted, several times, that you feel this girl is perfect, that you can't imagine anyone else better than her. If she is a healthy INFJ, I can say, from my own viewpoint, that she's going to feel some pressure from that, and in more than one way. We're perfectionists by nature, constantly introspecting and identifying things in ourselves which can be improved. You telling her that she's perfect might make her worry that her inner crusade to perfect herself isn't necessary or that she's wrong in her assessment of herself. You telling her that she's perfect and that you have a lot of work to do on yourself might make her worry that she'll have to be helping you out, propping you up.

To expand more on the connection between me and this INTP: We broke up because of the same issues you're describing here. I was constantly beating myself up, telling myself that I wasn't good enough for her, that she was perfect and I had never had anyone like her in my life before. Her friendship, eventually, her love, was this invaluable gift that I continuously asked myself how I had ever done enough to deserve. I did everything I could to care for her, cheer her up, even taking her (rare) outbursts of anger and venting from unrelated things with quiet understanding. The amount of service and sacrifice I did was, in no exaggeration, quite herculean. The problem was, though, I was constantly going in thinking that I was far below her level, that I would have to work myself to death just to approach her level. Like you, I did everything I could to improve myself, and when the relationship broke up, that fury intensified tenfold; I was attending personal growth workshops, seeing therapists, essentially going to war with myself for everything I had perceived as my weaknesses driving her away.

Her response? 

"I'm glad you are working so hard on yourself, but you need to be doing these things _for yourself. _I appreciate that you value my friendship so much, but if you don't value the good and potential in yourself more, you'll always find yourself needing other people to prop you up, encourage you, tell you that you matter." 

As I said, this is my main concern here. You're clearly trying very hard to improve yourself, but if all of it is geared towards winning her back, you won't win her back. If there's one thing INFJs are good at, it's seeing through people; you may love her with all of your heart, you may want to be the best person you can be, but if she can see that it's all motivated by you wanting to get back together, I would wager she would keep her distance, especially if the reason she left in the first place was because you wouldn't give yourself enough credit and would always put yourself down in comparison to her.

What you need to do is look at yourself, inside and out. For an ISFP, this may involve identifying your creative impulses, the exquisitely sensitive emotional current that flows through you, the incredible sensory experiences you have participated in. Maybe you heard a piece of music and it moved you to heights of emotion that, while impossible to convey to another, will never be forgotten. Maybe you had a day in nature or around something truly beautiful which touched your life in a deeply meaningful way. Whatever the case, you need to recognize that your inner truth, your real self, is beautiful; assuming this girl, again, is a reasonably healthy INFJ, she probably picked up on some degree of that inner truth in you, that deep, beautiful emotional side. Stop trying to jump through hoops and meet impossibly precise high bars you set for yourself; trying to adapt yourself to someone else's emotional desires will only leave you drained and unfulfilled.

I cannot overstate this enough, Washy. *You have within you a deep, incredible person, filled with beauty and potential for infinitely more. *If you truly want to be the person that she will love and value, you have to be a person that you will love and value. If I am correct, she left because she felt like she always had to pick you up out of feeling depressed and worthless compared to her. Trying to fix your confidence, faith, and so forth without fixing the core of your person which says "The good things in me don't matter, the good things in me are not important" is like trying to put new tires and a coat of Turtle Wax on a car with a cracked engine block.


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## Washy (Nov 23, 2014)

animalfromthesea said:


> What exactly is your mental condition?


Thanks for your understanding. Mental condition is major depression, ptsd (the root of mood issues...searching desperately for a cure), and I haven't been diagnosed, but I experience symptoms of BPD (this was what drove her away), and both me and the ex think I have it. Haven't had an anger episode in a long time so I'm getting better, but when I was with her my anger would get crazy sometimes because of jealousy, insecurity, and feelings of self-hatred.


> Have you tried talking to someone IRL (friends, family, therapist,...)?


Yeah, I'm talking with a therapist about it. Other than that, I haven't discussed it with anyone. I don't have close friends to talk to these things about. I recently have had a social group going, but we aren't close and I don't want to scare people away with these issues.


> If you gain control over your mental condition, is there any chance she might take you back?


I think so. But I'm worried she's moved on by now and is happy without me. But I don't think we'll ever talk again. It would be strange and emotionally intense for me to talk to her again. I had the last word and I'm afraid it'd seem desperate to talk to her again. It'd only work if she was as desperate for me as I am for her...which I doubt is the case. Last time I checked up on her, I saw a post she made saying she likes someone at work. I got suicidal and had another one of those out of control heartbeat and shaking episodes when I read that so I haven't checked up on her at all ever since besides today when I looked at her facebook page.


> I know you have lost contact with her, but have you tried meeting her face to face?


Nope, we planned on it though...it would have been magical. I can't believe I lost her. I really just can't believe. The reality of this is shocking and horrifying.



> I really hope you get better not only for the sake of your relationship but also for yourself. You obviously seem to have strong feelings for her and i hope that you two will manage to work things out together.
> Good luck


Thank you.



Gifford Maxim said:


> Disclaimer: This is a wall of text and I know that and I am so, so sorry. :bored: Breaking this up into two parts because I feel bad about flooding a post with mountains of words.


No problem, I will read every word. I appreciate your help. It is much needed.



> You're very welcome. The shots might dull the pain for the time being, but I would still suggest that you strive to find that center of peace and tranquility; I don't indulge in alcohol myself, but from what I know, when the buzz wears off, you still have the same problems staring you in the face, and, depending on how much you did, a hangover.


I usually don't drink either but was pacing around the house and that's generally what ends up happening when I get like that.



> No marriage in heaven?  I forget that other sects have different views on that; I'm LDS, so, for our doctrine, marriage is eternal. Your point about being euphoric is interesting, I will address that and the rest of the thoughts in this first paragraph a little later.


Hmm, I currently consider myself non-denominational, and not trying to debate, but I remember there being a verse about Jesus being asked which man a certain woman will be married to in heaven since she married many different men, and Jesus said there'd be no marriage. Maybe you'll know what verse I'm talking about. That's where that belief comes from for me.



> If you both decided on no contact, I would say you need to do more work on yourself before you contact her; I wasn't sure if you had decided not to contact her, of your own volition, or if she had explicitly asked you not to contact her. The sentiments from this post tell me that you are interested in improving yourself, which is good, very good. roud: However, I'm still not sure if you are committed to improving yourself for _your_ sake or for _her_ sake, and that's what concerns me. Seeing a therapist is good, reading self-help books is good, trying to improve your faith also good. However, and this may be me as an INFJ, needing to see the why in something before I really commit myself to it, unless you have a fairly good idea, or even a decent notion, of what's good and needs to stay/be improved upon and what's bad and needs to be removed, you're going to be lost.


She decided we couldn't be together, so we both decided no contact because it's the only way we could begin to get over each other. And yeah, that is an issue. I find myself improving myself for her. I keep thinking, "would she approve of me doing this? Whould she approve of this aspect of my personality?" I know that's an issue, but don't know how to stop.



> Good book for you to read: _The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. _In the first chapter alone, the author discusses how we all have paradigms, that is, worldviews, biases, and beliefs which motivate us to encourage/discourage things, pursue certain ideals over others, &c. That paradigm is like a road map; if you're using a map of Chicago to get to Nashville, you're going to be utterly lost, even if you're following the map perfectly. Conversely, if you try to go to Nashville without any kind of map (pretending for a moment that we don't live in an age of GPS or Google Maps :tongue, you will have a devil of a time getting to your destination. You might get there, but you're more likely to not get there at all.


Thanks, I will check out the book.



> The special kind of happiness I can relate to, yes. It honestly felt like she completed me, understood me on a deep, meaningful level I'd never found in any other person. For the first time in my life, someone who I cared about deeply, someone who I loved being around, loved getting to know, *noticed *me. She saw exactly who I was, without me having to make excuses or apologies for who I was, what I had suffered, or what I lacked, and the person she saw was someone she found very intriguing. When we got into the relationship, that intrigue evolved to love; she saw exactly who I was and loved that person, loved *me.* I didn't have to put on masks or hide parts of myself, I could just be me and get that focus, that love, that care and attention.
> 
> Talking about the euphoria from earlier in your post and the other thoughts you've expressed here, I can tell that you're in the middle of that happiness. It's been just over 1.5 years since the breakup (for those paying attention at home, yes, I only recently just stopped trying to get her and myself back together) and I still get the biggest kind of kick out of that connection we had. I don't have to jump through hoops, I don't have to feel misunderstood, and what's crazy and awesome and unique about everything is that she does it seemingly without effort. She just _knows_ me, and she loves that and I love that and she never has to feel like she has to bend over backwards to do that.


Very sorry to hear about that. You know I completely understand.



> All that being said, I have a few more questions and a few more points for you.
> 
> You believe you have strengths, though it's very hard to see them; you sometimes forget to identify the good things in yourself.


Some good things in myself I'd say are I am good at understanding other people, I'm fun to be around when I'm comfortable with someone, and I can be friends with anyone without rejecting others based on standards (example: thinking someone is too nerdy to be my friend).



> Do you find that you will, far and above, focus on the bad things in yourself before you even notice the good? Do you have a problem with being too hard on yourself, beating yourself up?


Yes, absolutely. I've always beaten myself up too much. As a kid I'd get furious if I had to ask someone to help me with something and I'd tear into my homework with my pencil if I didn't write my name perfectly. Nowadays, it's much worse, and I sometimes get this uncontrollable anger towards myself (the BPD symptoms and feelings of self-hatred I was talking about at the beginning of the post) and it was that crazy anger that drove her away... it even scares myself as I look back on it. I'm currently practicing self-love and trying to be less perfectionistic.


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## Washy (Nov 23, 2014)

@Gifford Maxim In reply to your continued post, all I can say is that was a genius post. Everything you said was right. My therapist has told me things along the lines of that, but the explicit detail you have conveyed really made sense to me. I'm going to reread that many times to get it through my head and make sure I don't forget.

Also, the stuff about finding inner-peace is very fascinating. I've been trying for a while. It's hard for me. I feel like I need someone to share peace with me and that I can't attain it by myself. And if I somehow did find it by myself, I'd feel too guilty to indulge in it if it was something the ex would disapprove of. That's the barrier I must get through. I'll be going to sleep now that I've finally calmed down, I have work later. Thanks for the replies so far. I've received some amazing advice in this thread and will be coming back to it for sure.


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## Gifford Maxim (May 9, 2013)

@Washy

Thank you for replying so diligently and thoroughly. roud: I'm purposefully holding back in this post, since there was my second one and I suspect that you will be responding to that one as well. Still, I'll address what you did write.

I don't know much about BPD, but for context's sake, I struggle with Schizoid Personality Disorder. For me, the anger you talk about was there, but it was internalized deeper and deeper into myself and never given an opportunity to be released, except in bursts of rage. From what I've read of your other posts, it sounds like you had a lot of problems with bullying, still do, if I may guess, and not many ways to express that anger. I know that, with the girl I was with, the INTP, my anger would express itself in ways I didn't want it to, usually in intense self-hate and despising myself. You naming that as the reason why she moved away confirms what I suspected and pointed out in my second post, so thank you for the confirmation. 

If she seems like she's happy without you and that you wouldn't be able to talk to her without that emotional awkwardness, here's a couple of points that came to mind for me:

INFJs work a little bit differently than ISFPs when it comes to doorslams. Yes, the INFJ doorslam is legendary; when someone wrongs us and betrays our deep, vulnerable trust, we shut that person out and may put up a lot of defenses, get angry. From what (little! I must stress that, what little) I know about ISFPs, if someone wrongs them, they pack their bags and quietly step out without a big fuss, never to return. The thing is, if an INFJ is healthy, there's the chance (depends on the INFJ, honestly) that someone who got the doorslam before, if they can show, with utter sincerity and soul-bearing depth, they've changed from who they were before, that that person will be let back in, albeit with extreme caution. 

If you want my two cents, which, by the way, kudos to you for listening to me as much as you have, you're not yet at the point where you could possibly approach her and have her see that you're sincerely a different person. For me and the INTP I was with, I eventually did reach a point where I buried the weapons of rebellion against myself, started to slowly, haltingly accept who I was and who I could be. Trying to practice self-love and be less perfectionistic, as I expand upon in my second post, is good, but unless you can get to the core of who you are, who you see yourself as, you're only ever pruning the thorn bush which is stinging you and, at least before, was stinging her.

As to the marriage scripture, it doesn't sound familiar, but I haven't really read the New Testament in a while, so that's not an indicator one way or the other. Not trying to start a debate either, (not that the 1w2 Te side in me doesn't relish it :tongue but in my faith, the doctrine that sets the LDS church aside from others was directly given to the prophets of the restored church by latter-day revelation. That is, the presidents of the church were given direct instructions and promptings on how to lead the church, how the afterlife works, &c. For marriage, we believe that people are married in this life if they're married in a church, but unless they're married in a ceremony which seals them for eternity, that bond is only good until "death do you part". However, that ceremony is only good for two people; if someone gets married in that ceremony and one spouse dies, the other can remarry, it's just that the first marriage would only be considered a sealing bond after death. So, perhaps, that's what the verse referred to, at least in my interpretation.


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## Gifford Maxim (May 9, 2013)

Washy said:


> @_Gifford Maxim_ In reply to your continued post, all I can say is that was a genius post. Everything you said was right. My therapist has told me things along the lines of that, but the explicit detail you have conveyed really made sense to me. I'm going to reread that many times to get it through my head and make sure I don't forget.
> 
> Also, the stuff about finding inner-peace is very fascinating. I've been trying for a while. It's hard for me. I feel like I need someone to share peace with me and that I can't attain it by myself. And if I somehow did find it by myself, I'd feel too guilty to indulge in it if it was something the ex would disapprove of. That's the barrier I must get through. I'll be going to sleep now that I've finally calmed down, I have work later. Thanks for the replies so far. I've received some amazing advice in this thread and will be coming back to it for sure.


Tying in another point from my own experiences, SPD tends to breed a feeling of under-entitlement. Don't know your family dynamic, but judging from your posts about bullying and getting along with your peers, it sounds like you were usually the scapegoat, having to deal with the anger, shame, and exclusion that others would project onto you. Did you grow up in a family setting where you were usually taking blame for other siblings? Did your parents, or another close relative, make you take responsibility for things outside of your control? Did your siblings or close friends take their anger (or other negative emotions) out on you? In my own life, I usually fell into that rôle. That experience, combined with others, led to me hating myself and constantly feeling like I couldn't provide for myself in reality; I would escape into fantasy worlds where I had complete control and freedom, but in the "real world" I was abandoned by everyone, yet given unrealistic expectations to perform in the place of others who refused to take responsibility for their situation.

That sense of under-entitlement breeds shame, guilt, and helplessness; you feel like you need to get confirmation from others that you possess a certain quality or trait, and that, unless you fought with all your might to achieve or attain something, you haven't "actually" achieved it. For a Fi-user like yourself, I would think that you could find inner peace through distancing yourself from others, communing in the moment with something breathtaking or emotionally stirring. Fun fact about our worries: they're only as powerful as we let them be. The more time and energy you devote to "trying" to calm down, the harder it is to calm down; you start worrying that you're taking too long, that normal (what a word; who can say what is truly normal?) people don't have this difficulty, and before long, your search for peace has led you into a worse place than where you were when you started. 

The next time you feel anxious, try imagining your worries, your self-hate, everything plaguing you, as a glowing hot ember. The tighter you hold it, the angrier you feel at yourself, the more it burns you and the more you rage and scream and hurt. Trying to let go of it still hurts, but it's a throbbing, constant pain that gets more unbearable as time goes on. Now imagine yourself letting go. Not _trying_ to let go, no. Let go. Just watch the ember fall down, look at your scarred hands, walk away from that and find something to heal you, whether that be prayer, music, whatever. The truth of the matter is, you *are* hurting yourself when you let that anger lash out, when you work yourself into a panic attack trying to let go of that ember. The only way to make it stop hurting is to open your fingers, turn your hand to the side, and let it drop; don't give it any more of your time, energy, or emotional attachment at that time.

Once again, you have my sincere thanks for listening and, from what I've seen, believing what I have to say. Now that I've gotten my INFJ warm-fuzzies "I helped someone!" for the day, I'll be quiet on this post until you reply again; I feel like I've written enough words to build a house out of. :laughing:


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## AriesLilith (Jan 6, 2013)

Gifford Maxim said:


> Her response?
> 
> "I'm glad you are working so hard on yourself, but you need to be doing these things _for yourself. _I appreciate that you value my friendship so much, but if you don't value the good and potential in yourself more, you'll always find yourself needing other people to prop you up, encourage you, tell you that you matter."
> 
> ...


Perhaps what I understand of yours and OP's situation is minimal, but I just wanted to say that what you wrote is beautiful, and I just wanted to comment this quoted part. Often putting someone on a pedestal is putting lots of expectations on someone, while this ends up blinding us from acknowledging the real person in front of us. And without truly seeing the other person, we can't really have a genuine relationship. So aside the other person feeling heavy responsibility from keeping up with the expectations, she might also end up feeling that the relationship is not real and she is not really acknowledged.

This is why it is important to improve ourselves for ourselves and not for someone else. Without self worth, confidence and love, we might not be able to love others.

But if the other person chose you (in this case OP), then didn't she see something beautiful in you? Perhaps it might not be obvious to yourself but she, a beautiful soul, saw the beauty in your soul. There is a beautiful potential within each of us, and it is important to be acknowledged. Each of us is a soul with our own individuality, experience and unique perspectives.


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## Washy (Nov 23, 2014)

Gifford Maxim said:


> Tying in another point from my own experiences, SPD tends to breed a feeling of under-entitlement. Don't know your family dynamic, but judging from your posts about bullying and getting along with your peers, it sounds like you were usually the scapegoat, having to deal with the anger, shame, and exclusion that others would project onto you. Did you grow up in a family setting where you were usually taking blame for other siblings? Did your parents, or another close relative, make you take responsibility for things outside of your control? Did your siblings or close friends take their anger (or other negative emotions) out on you?


I don't think so. I remember having a really happy childhood. I can relate to your feelings though. I struggle with self-hatred and feeling excluded and not good enough. I hope you're feeling better nowadays compared to back then. I'm good at reading people and you seem like a great person to me and I can't think of any reason why you'd hate yourself.



> That sense of under-entitlement breeds shame, guilt, and helplessness; you feel like you need to get confirmation from others that you possess a certain quality or trait, and that, unless you fought with all your might to achieve or attain something, you haven't "actually" achieved it. For a Fi-user like yourself, I would think that you could find inner peace through distancing yourself from others, communing in the moment with something breathtaking or emotionally stirring. Fun fact about our worries: they're only as powerful as we let them be. The more time and energy you devote to "trying" to calm down, the harder it is to calm down; you start worrying that you're taking too long, that normal (what a word; who can say what is truly normal?) people don't have this difficulty, and before long, your search for peace has led you into a worse place than where you were when you started.


Yeah, and a hard thing is that this girl once told me that she has really high standards. I get angry when I think of that, although I did fit her standards besides the self-anger issue. And yes, that does seem accurate. I do like to escape into things like nature and will try to do that when I'm off work.



> The next time you feel anxious, try imagining your worries, your self-hate, everything plaguing you, as a glowing hot ember. The tighter you hold it, the angrier you feel at yourself, the more it burns you and the more you rage and scream and hurt. Trying to let go of it still hurts, but it's a throbbing, constant pain that gets more unbearable as time goes on. Now imagine yourself letting go. Not _trying_ to let go, no. Let go. Just watch the ember fall down, look at your scarred hands, walk away from that and find something to heal you, whether that be prayer, music, whatever. The truth of the matter is, you *are* hurting yourself when you let that anger lash out, when you work yourself into a panic attack trying to let go of that ember. The only way to make it stop hurting is to open your fingers, turn your hand to the side, and let it drop; don't give it any more of your time, energy, or emotional attachment at that time.


Another beautiful piece of advice, thank you. I will have to remember this.



> Once again, you have my sincere thanks for listening and, from what I've seen, believing what I have to say. Now that I've gotten my INFJ warm-fuzzies "I helped someone!" for the day, I'll be quiet on this post until you reply again; I feel like I've written enough words to build a house out of. :laughing:


Thank you very much. You have made a huge difference. If it weren't for your replies I'd be in a much worse place right now. I had an absolutely awful night because I woke up nauseated with a terrible headache and thought of the ex immediately and starting drowning in sadness as soon as I woke up. The headache stayed all night and then a manager at work gave me a warning about my performance and I felt so hurt. Trying to shrug it off and find inner peace...thank you again Gifford for listening to what I've said and giving great advice.


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## Washy (Nov 23, 2014)

@AriesLilith very true, thank you. I'm trying hard to find self-love, confidence, and peace. I appreciate the advice.


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## Gifford Maxim (May 9, 2013)

@Washy

I'm sorry to hear about your night; it definitely sounds like you are in a difficult emotional place and I hope that you can fight your way out of it.

Regarding all of your thanks, you are very welcome. Thank *you* for taking the time to listen to me and, I hope, take this advice to heart. I would listen to what @AriesLilith wrote, too; it sounds to me like this girl was attracted to you at first precisely because you stood out. Little tie-in from me and the INTP I was dating: that wonderful, special understanding she had for me was a two-way street. I understood her, too, and without any kind of massive effort or having to fake things. I can't say for certain, but I'd be willing to bet even money that your INFJ saw much in you that was above and beyond a lot of other guys, it's just that you were struggling so much with that anger that it was difficult for you to see what she was seeing. Most INFJs desire harmony in their relationships, especially intimate ones, so once she realized that it was going to be a constant struggle for her against your anger, with the real you, the guy she fell in love with originally, caught in the middle/shoved to the side, she came to the conclusion it wasn't going to work out.

Need to go to work soon myself, but I appreciate the update and will be checking here as I can throughout the day. Going to go ahead and send you a PM because, from what I've seen, I'm willing to indulge my feelsy side and its inclination to trust.


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## Death Persuades (Feb 17, 2012)

I was once in a similar situation, and I know this isn't what you want to hear, but with time you'll be able to move on and think clearly again. Right now you are blinded by the mourning process, and I know it hurts, but just hang in there and you'll get better.


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## Washy (Nov 23, 2014)

Thank you so much Gifford. I wasn't expecting a personal reach for help like this. Where does one find an INFJ in real life? I hope you have a good day at work.


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## Washy (Nov 23, 2014)

Thank you @Diligent Procrastinator


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## Gifford Maxim (May 9, 2013)

I appreciate that, and as I said, the offer stands for as long as it seems helpful. :kitteh: Truth be told, INFJs in real life are hard to find; not just because of the rarity of the type compared to the rest of the population, but because INFJs don't really come off as INFJs. Most of us have been bullied and picked on, appropriated, manipulated, &c, so we tend to use our Fe to project other traits. In fact, the two INFJs I've met in real life, both guys, didn't come off as being INFJs to me...an INFJ ._.


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## Washy (Nov 23, 2014)

Gifford Maxim said:


> I appreciate that, and as I said, the offer stands for as long as it seems helpful. :kitteh: Truth be told, INFJs in real life are hard to find; not just because of the rarity of the type compared to the rest of the population, but because INFJs don't really come off as INFJs. Most of us have been bullied and picked on, appropriated, manipulated, &c, so we tend to use our Fe to project other traits. In fact, the two INFJs I've met in real life, both guys, didn't come off as being INFJs to me...an INFJ ._.


That's really sad. Sorry to hear that if you've been through that yourself. I have as well.


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## Glenda Gnome Starr (May 12, 2011)

Dear @Washy, I just read through this beautiful exchange that you've been having with @Gifford Maxim. He is a gem. Everything that he's suggested to you... so wonderful. I intend to read it over again and take much of it to heart.
I'm as esfp. I know that, for us (xsfp types), it can be hard to understand the future. We're not future focused like NFs, and, if our current situation is difficult or painful or challenging, we do not really understand that it will end. We know that with our heads but, with our hearts. No, not really.
Here is my suggestion for you. Your auxiliary function is Se. Take some time to relish your Se function. Take a walk. You're in California so it may not be snowy where you are, as it is here. Touch something, like say, bricks on a building or a tree. Experience deeply everything that you see and that you feel. We have a beautiful world and it is just waiting for you to touch it, see it, hear it, be it. 
If you like to run, go for a run and feel the wind on your back and feel your feet moving.
Do you live near a large body of water?
Go there. 
Watch the sun set over the water.
I send you hugs of friendship and support.


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