# INFP + ENTJ - beginning



## giraffe11

*Need dating advice from other ENTJs*

Greetings all. I'm going to provide bits of background as they come up rather than trying to post a novel here.

*Basic problem* 
I don't know the the heck is up with this ENTJ (confirmed) guy I've gone out with a few times.
*
Background* 
We met on a dating website, but neither of us were serious about finding someone. We had good conversations and exchanged emails and IMs on and off for about 5 months. Then we met a couple of months ago and hit it off big time. I am an INFP, but probably come off as an ENTP (I do that infp chameleon thing) to him. He likes my feistiness (his words).

*Recent developments* 
At first, we hung out A LOT. He shared some stuff that he's pretty self-conscious about early on after meeting. That, of course, meant a lot to me. He went away for a couple of weeks and came back around new years. We tried to hang out, but were both busy on the days the other was free. Frustrating. Soon after, I left for a week, so we didn't get to see each other for awhile. 

Now it takes forever for him to respond to my messages. We were both still on the dating website, but I recently took down my profile. I mentioned this other girl that I made friends with to him...and I somehow suspect that they are talking/flirting. I don't have direct evidence. All's I got is meager: they log on at suspiciously similar times. I notice that he doesn't log on UNLESS she logs on. And these log ons occur throughout the day: 12pm, 10am, 4-freakin-am. (We are all students. And I am internet stalking.)

BUT I realize I may be detecting patterns where none may exist.

*Other*


 He has shared his experiences and opinions about this dating website, namely that he gets messages from only unattractive women, and that he just likes reading how people sell themselves. But I could imagine him checking out the profile of the girl I befriended and that he started talking to her -- which gives them something mutual (me) to talk about. She and I are some of the rare finds online who are attractive/highly educated/youngish/thin/etc.


He has a crazy 80hr/wk work schedule as a grad student, which has resumed.
 
What the heck is going on? Ask me any and all questions.


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## giraffe11

Cross-posted in the entj forum, but not getting any responses. So I'm reposting here for advice and moral support!

---

Greetings all. I'm going to provide bits of background as they come up rather than trying to post a novel here.

*Basic problem* 
I don't know the the heck is up with this ENTJ (confirmed) guy I've gone out with a few times.
*
Background* 
We met on a dating website, but neither of us were serious about finding someone. We had good conversations and exchanged emails and IMs on and off for about 5 months. Then we met a couple of months ago and hit it off big time. I am an INFP, but probably come off as an ENTP (I do that infp chameleon thing) to him. He likes my feistiness (his words).

*Recent developments* 
At first, we hung out A LOT. He shared some stuff that he's pretty self-conscious about early on after meeting. That, of course, meant a lot to me. He went away for a couple of weeks and came back around new years. We tried to hang out, but were both busy on the days the other was free. Frustrating. Soon after, I left for a week, so we didn't get to see each other for awhile. 

Now it takes forever for him to respond to my messages. We were both still on the dating website, but I recently took down my profile. I mentioned this other girl that I made friends with to him...and I somehow suspect that they are talking/flirting. I don't have direct evidence. All's I got is meager: they log on at suspiciously similar times. I notice that he doesn't log on UNLESS she logs on. And these log ons occur throughout the day: 12pm, 10am, 4-freakin-am. (We are all students. And I am internet stalking.)

BUT I realize I may be detecting patterns where none may exist.

*Other*


 He has shared his experiences and opinions about this dating website, namely that he gets messages from only unattractive women, and that he just likes reading how people sell themselves. But I could imagine him checking out the profile of the girl I befriended and that he started talking to her -- which gives them something mutual (me) to talk about. She and I are some of the rare finds online who are attractive/highly educated/youngish/thin/etc.


He has a crazy 80hr/wk work schedule as a grad student, which has resumed.
 
What the heck is going on? Ask me any and all questions.


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## priestess

giraffe11 said:


> He has a crazy 80hr/wk work schedule as a grad student, which has resumed.
> 
> What the heck is going on? Ask me any and all questions.


He doesn't have time for you.


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## giraffe11

priestess said:


> He doesn't have time for you.


Is there an "and" or "but" to add? Such as, "He doesn't have time for you and he's losing interest" or "He doesn't have time for you, but he's still interested"?


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## dasch

Leave him if you're only going to suspect him or if he doesn't have any time for you. I'd hate to still be in a relationship if I had to suspect him all the time or if he's not willing to make any time for the both of you.


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## OrangeAppled

I always think that if you really like someone, then you make time for that person. Being too busy to see you probably means he's not that into you. 

All you can really do is communicate with him. Let him know you're still interested in seeing him. All the speculation is just going to drive you nuts, and probably lead you somewhere far from the truth.


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## giraffe11

But the problem is I don't know what's going on. I want to give him the benefit of the doubt. 

And I want to be wary of believing my own ill-informed beliefs. My rational side tells me: But you don't have sufficient evidence to make such conclusions yet!

I'm not so arrogant as to think that I'm that intuitive about people _all of the time_. The beginning of any relationship serves up many blind spots to both parties.

I am still wondering: could that much change in two days' time? He did message me a couple of hours after I flew home to ask if I was home safely. The next day, he emailed to say he wanted to see me sooner rather than later. I gave him one day that I was free (but it might have sounded snarky -- would that actually make an ENTJ feel bad?), and he hasn't responded. Not even to a text I sent last night that asked "What happened?".


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## Vanitas

I wanted to reply on the ENTJ forum, but well.. 
I'll try seeing it from the guy's place. He might be different. If _I'm_ interested in someone, I'll talk to them. I do that 'weighing' whether someone is worth the time/ effort or not, call it probationary stage. He'll be interested in you, maybe talk about deep topics and life, because he wants to know you more before deciding.

If he disappears, I'm sorry, but it's likely that he has decided that you two won't get along/ have a future, or that you're not what he's looking for. It takes forever to respond because you're not on his mind, we forget about things we don't prioritize.


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## giraffe11

OrangeAppled said:


> I always think that if you really like someone, then you make time for that person. Being too busy to see you probably means he's not that into you.
> 
> All you can really do is communicate with him. Let him know you're still interested in seeing him. All the speculation is just going to drive you nuts, and probably lead you somewhere far from the truth.


I am seriously contemplating just writing him one of my long meandering emails that he says he likes reading and including a short bit about how frustrated I feel for not being able to see him for the past few weeks.

A male friend, however, told me that if he had to work that much and had his own ish to deal with, then he'd appreciate being left alone for about a week. A week!

I am getting opinions from opposite ends of the spectrum, so I'm not sure what to do. I want to do whatever 'works'.


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## Trifoilum

> I am getting opinions from opposite ends of the spectrum, so I'm not sure what to do. I want to do whatever 'works'.


Just do your best  Don't get swept by insecurity and what 'works', that'll only push you farther.

If you're expressing your stress and pressure -too- fast, there's a huge risk it'll come off as....annoying. So...don't. Dealing with an ENTJ means that you can't really...ask, or demand more than given. It's more like a deal. 
'Here's what I have, here's what I'm offering and asking, and now it's your turn to reply.'

Maybe a soft, nice poking, "hey, what's up?" and PRAY. Pray really, really hard he'll reply.
Anyway, I wish all the best for you


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## Vanitas

> Maybe a soft, nice poking, "hey, what's up?"


That's not a bad idea, really. And you can gauge the situation from his reaction, I'm pretty sure he'll reply if it's a messenger or so (don't use PMs or emails if possible). We're pretty impersonal, not wanting a relationship won't stop us from talking to someone. 
If he's cold and uninterested/ keep AFK-ing, he has decided not to pursue the relationship; if he's warm and chatty like he used to be, it's better tidings for you.

Please understand that even if he really did switch interest to your friend, that's nothing wrong in an ENTJ's book. You're not dating. He probably doesn't even realize that you're disturbed by his lack of interest/ the possibility of switching interest/ that she's a friend _you_ mentioned to him.


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## Siggy

It seems to me he is just playing the field, and certainly not in the "I'm looking for a serious relationship mode" especially with the 80 hour week. You may want to think about writing him off.


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## giraffe11

Trifoilum said:


> Just do your best  Don't get swept by insecurity and what 'works', that'll only push you farther.
> 
> If you're expressing your stress and pressure -too- fast, there's a huge risk it'll come off as....annoying. So...don't. Dealing with an ENTJ means that you can't really...ask, or demand more than given. It's more like a deal.
> 'Here's what I have, here's what I'm offering and asking, and now it's your turn to reply.'
> 
> Maybe a soft, nice poking, "hey, what's up?" and PRAY. Pray really, really hard he'll reply.
> Anyway, I wish all the best for you


So, it looks like the double standard thing applies here... he can be aggressively pursuing ME, but I can't do it to him...?

Well, after I sent my response to his email on Wed, my soft poke was on Thursday night. I assume that I shouldn't be poking again, even though I want to. (But I still think it is rude to take so long to get back to someone.)

You know what? I just want to be honest, upfront. I hate beating around the bush, playing this back and forth game.


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## giraffe11

Vanitas said:


> If he's cold and uninterested/ keep AFK-ing, he has decided not to pursue the relationship; if he's warm and chatty like he used to be, it's better tidings for you.
> 
> Please understand that even if he really did switch interest to your friend, that's nothing wrong in an ENTJ's book. You're not dating. He probably doesn't even realize that you're disturbed by his lack of interest/ the possibility of switching interest/ that she's a friend _you_ mentioned to him.


It may not be the friend after all. I don't know. He had a pretty long crush on me and it just seems off for him to suddenly crush on someone else. I didn't suggest the person for him to hit on. I just mentioned her in passing and mentioned the girl b/c i started noticing these log on patterns, which may still be a harmless pattern that my mind is being irrationally sensitive to.


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## TurranMC

You should just drop him. Why worry so much about a guy who won't even respond to your messages? As someone else said if he was more interested he would make time.


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## giraffe11

TurranMC said:


> You should just drop him. Why worry so much about a guy who won't even respond to your messages? As someone else said if he was more interested he would make time.


Because I don't want to base this off of what has been happening in the last 3 days compared with the 6 months that we have spent becoming friends and getting to know each other.

5 months, 27 days = good
3 days = not good


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## Trifoilum

giraffe11 said:


> So, it looks like the double standard thing applies here... he can be aggressively pursuing ME, but I can't do it to him...?
> 
> Well, after I sent my response to his email on Wed, my soft poke was on Thursday night. I assume that I shouldn't be poking again, even though I want to. (But I still think it is rude to take so long to get back to someone.)
> 
> You know what? I just want to be honest, upfront. I hate beating around the bush, playing this back and forth game.


Double standard? :|
No, not really, it's just the tendencies. It's...their feelings, after all. You had invested so much, but whether he'll be interested or not, or whether he's OBSESSED with pursuing you but suddenly stopped or basically, his response, is his prerogative, don't you think? I think it'd be the same with female ENTJs. I don't know much ENTJs to be able to generalize, it's a biased observation based on my own experience (and mine was platonic, at least one of them.) so you're free to not believe my words. 

And yes, IMO you're......being a little too fast. I'd guess to wait another week or so... He's pretty busy, what with the working and all.

You're free to be honest; hell, I think they'd appreciate it more. But know the TPO and how will you spell it; wrong ones will turn your honesty into chirpy annoyance. I can't tell you more because it depends on how you are yourself, but...well, just stay honest and not annoying (I am NOT implying that you're annoying but this is a general advice) at the same time. That'll help more 



giraffe11 said:


> It may not be the friend after all. I don't know. He had a pretty long crush on me and it just seems off for him to suddenly crush on someone else. I didn't suggest the person for him to hit on. I just mentioned her in passing and mentioned the girl b/c i started noticing these log on patterns, which may still be a harmless pattern that my mind is being irrationally sensitive to.


....I don't really think the friend has a part, if any, on this, tho. If there's any, it's completely unrelated. ENTJs are pretty able to...separate feelings between persons, or even between that very same person in different contexts.


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## Trifoilum

TurranMC said:


> You should just drop him. Why worry so much about a guy who won't even respond to your messages? As someone else said if he was more interested he would make time.


Now this, really, are the quickest, shortest, and probably the most effective suggestion in this whole topic. 


> Because I don't want to base this off of what has been happening in the last 3 days compared with the 6 months that we have spent becoming friends and getting to know each other.
> 
> 5 months, 27 days = good
> 3 days = not good


Sometimes, it takes only a second to destroy things built over years. And I'm not talking about you here.


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## giraffe11

Trifoilum said:


> Sometimes, it takes only a second to destroy things built over years. And I'm not talking about you here.


True, very true. Yet, I am inclined to stick by one of my original statements -- not coming to any conclusions, data insufficient. 'Tis torture.


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## OrangeAppled

giraffe11 said:


> I am still wondering: could that much change in two days' time? He did message me a couple of hours after I flew home to ask if I was home safely. The next day, he emailed to say he wanted to see me sooner rather than later. I gave him one day that I was free (but it might have sounded snarky -- would that actually make an ENTJ feel bad?), and he hasn't responded. Not even to a text I sent last night that asked "What happened?".


That's a short amount of time - it seems he might be legitimately busy, and this says he is interested in still seeing you. NTJs can be more sensitive than they'd like to admit sometimes - maybe your answer was too snarky, maybe not (I made the same mistake once...). The only way you will know is to *talk to him*.



giraffe11 said:


> I am seriously contemplating just writing him one of my long meandering emails that he says he likes reading and including a short bit about *how frustrated I feel for not being able to see him for the past few weeks*.


*Communicating* is the best way to go. Much better than assuming. :wink:
Instead of a long message, since he is busy, send a shorter one just letting him know you miss hanging out & would like to cement the plans he mentioned in his previous email. Relationships need a little nurturing and encouraging in the early stages. I've made the mistake of letting them die out because both of us got insecure and was waiting on the other to make the next move....there's a way to do it without seeming clingy or nagging. 



giraffe11 said:


> So, it looks like the double standard thing applies here... he can be aggressively pursuing ME, but I can't do it to him...?
> 
> Well, after I sent my response to his email on Wed, my soft poke was on Thursday night. I assume that I shouldn't be poking again, even though I want to. (But I still think it is rude to take so long to get back to someone.)
> 
> You know what? I just want to be honest, upfront. I hate beating around the bush, playing this back and forth game.


So you sent the email you were contemplating? If so, then yeah, leave the ball in his court. If you're referring to the snarky email, then try sending the brief one discussed above.


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