# INFP and INFJ values



## spook (Dec 16, 2009)

I was watching this *link: interview between Vicky Jo and an INFP*, and although she isn't a typical INFJ, being quite Fe+Se heavy with the gesticulating, directive mannerisms, I was wondering whether you guys relate to anything she or Pete said.

I'm sure both types like having good heart to heart convos but I relate more to Pete's slow and reserved approach to impacting people's emotions. It's interesting how what VJ perceived as "resistance/opposition" was Pete's idea of respecting boundaries. 

Do you INFJs confuse personal values with group values? Is the Fi vs Fe difference talking about being aware of intrapersonal vs interpersonal general likes/dislikes or (ethical) principles eg. love, honesty, independence etc or both ?

Both types may reach the same conclusions about which values are worthwhile but get there different ways. If Fi and Fe both empathise with a group or individual, while Ni and Ne both universalise or personally adopt a higher ideal based on certain perceived patterns, how exactly are the processes different? 

INFJs seem to internalise some needs of the group as their own and being reflective of a collective consciousness with some individual exceptions ofc, while INFPs...? Do certain values/ideas have an "intrinsic honour" which is somewhat detached to whether or not a contradictory variety of contexts adopts them, and instead of imposing those judgments onto others, the INFP will seek to empathise with select individuals they resonate with?

Unlike VJ, I think I know what I value, like and dislike, but I'd probably approach those values differently than an INFP would. I guess I'm not as deeply rooted in my values to suppose living up to them alone primarily gives my life meaning, it's more about the connections I make with other people through those sharing those values which gives my life fulfillment, or perhaps the distinctions I'm making aren't quite so clear cut.

I hear that INFJs often put others' needs before their own but I don't really do that. I'm always willing to help a friend with their emotional problems but I can also be quite selective about which tasks are worthy of my time due to blatant laziness or simply lack of expertise. I also don't think I'm great at taking care of myself, especially physically or with the internal processing and purification INFPs might do. I'm probably somewhere in between and wouldn't say I'm out of touch with my own needs/feelings but I'm not aware that I'm feeling something all the time if that's what they mean... I don't know if INFJs are more analytical about their feelings bc of Ti, Fi+Si seems more like you're incorporating awareness of bodily states, hence it can be hard to articulate? 

VJ pointed out that she finds it easier to honour other people than her own self-worth/respect, what about the rest of you INFs? I read that INFP's self-worth isn't as dependent on the approval of others as an INFJ's, so if you're an INFP with low self-esteem, does it have more to do with failing to meet your own standards? Not saying external approval would cease to be a factor, but perhaps both types have a slightly different orientation towards it ?

I realise that's quite a few questions but hopefully I can get some feedback on at least some of them. Thanks.


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## Jorge (Aug 5, 2009)

I'll get back on this tomorrow, it's late and I didn't watch the whole thing .... but...

Dang, she doesnt NOT seem like an introvert at all


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## Kaipa (Dec 22, 2009)

I've had issues with self-esteem and I certainly couldn't say that I can honor and love myself, no matter what other people think about me. My self-esteem has been very much tied to how other people see me, and I don't think that's a manifestation of a particularly strong Fe or low Fi-- it's just me being human.

It's hard for me to see that Vicky Jo is being honest when she says that she knows what other people want but has no idea of what she wants. Surely she has some idea of what she wants-- how else could she describe how after a party she needs to stay under covers in bed? To me it seems that she's trying to present herself as some kind of a saint who cares about other people's needs so much that she forgets about her own needs.

I think that the ideal for anyone is to be empathetic and giving, loving and accepting, not only towards others, but also towards self. And I believe that the road to this ideal is not developping certain cognitive processes, but personal growth. My experience as an INFP (?) is not that I have always loved myself. Sometimes (especially as a child sometimes, I remember) I have put other people's needs before my own. And sometimes I've been selfish and egoistic.

What I don't identify with about Fi, btw, is that Fi-dom children are said to be very conscious of their strong values even as children. Well, sure I loved nature when I was a kid, and I romanticised things like self-sacrifice, but I couldn't say that I was very conscious of my values. And besides, they were values that I had initially absorbed like a sponge from fairy tales.

Now, as an adult, I am very value-oriented, I practically plan and live my life based on values and look forward to further personal growth, but I don't think that's essentially caused by my personality type, but because of personal, spiritual growth.


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## Eric B (Jun 18, 2010)

COntinuing from what I addressed here:
http://personalitycafe.com/infj-forum-protectors/11088-vicky-jo-infjs-2.html

The first thing to clearing up this web of confusion concerning the functions, is to realize that the functions are more of *perspectives*, rather than _behaviors_ or _skills sets_. That [skills/behaviors] is how she uses them, as we can even see in her explanation of INFPete's reactions.

This has colored much of people's misundersanding of the functions; especially those weighing between NTP and NFP, who are concerned they are "using" too much Fi or Ti to fit one type or the other (or someone typing them arguing one or the other. And it's usually a person leaning towards T being pushed towards F). 

It's not about "using" a function; it's what your _*perspective*_ is in judging or perceiving.

She heavily employs Berens and Nardi's concepts, which involve short one word or phrase descriptions of each of the eight functions, to try to simplify them. So Fe is "*considering others*", while Fi is "*evaluating congruence*"/"*staying true to one's own values*". She turns these into what are known as "*key word fallacies*", where anyone seen engaging in these behaviors can _readily_ be typed based on them. 
Hence, anyone being emotional or enthusiastic is "using Fi". and therefore can't be a T. 
*She is widely known for criticizing people's misuse of the J/P dichotomy, (e.g. "neat vs messy") yet she does the exact same thing with T/F. (unemotional vs emotional)*

Also suggested, that only Fe users consider others, and only Fi users "know what they want". She even has a page saying Fi users know what they want from Santa Claus, while Fe users don't. So we can see why Spook in this thread would have to wonder, as he/she professes INFJ, yet is aware of what he/she "values". 

So in contrast, Fi ends up coming off as "selfish". I'm not the only one who has noticed this, as we can see here (and also a TYPOc thread from around the same time, about the same video). 
Again, the solution to this is that the functions are _perspectives_, not skills sets. _Temperament_ has "skills sets". Not the functions. 

Fi can "consider others" in some ways better than Fe, because of the fact that it's _deeper_ and more personal, and doesn't have to rely on the person stating his needs (which he might not do, and might not even be aware of). So the difference between Fe and Fi is simply the _orientation_, or location of the *standard* it draws from. "Considering others" as a definition of Fe then only refers to the external orientation of the perspective, and cannot be taken too as a hard definition. 

*Everyone can know what they want for themselves*. All types have *ego*'s, which want things for themselves, and have emotional reactions (including enthusiasm) when its goals are being realized (and negative emotions when the goals are thwarted). 
That is the heart of Jung's entire theory. The ego thinks it's the center of the psyche. (The self really is, and the Shadow is what it uses to claim its rightful place in the psyche). Yet, now, we have neatly forced all emotion into a box of "F", while T is some total emotionless "Vulcan" thing. And this is the basis of going into discussions and disputing people's type, which she is infamous for.

As for INFPete's reactions, while I think he probably is an INFP, ANY person of _any_ type would naturally feel uncomfortable having some relative stranger all up in their "personal space" like that! It's a *natural* animal (limbic) reaction, not an "introverted Feeling" reaction!


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## Honey Apple Jones (Jun 22, 2010)

Kaipa said:


> I've had issues with self-esteem and I certainly couldn't say that I can honor and love myself, no matter what other people think about me. My self-esteem has been very much tied to how other people see me, and I don't think that's a manifestation of a particularly strong Fe or low Fi-- it's just me being human.
> 
> *It's hard for me to see that Vicky Jo is being honest when she says that she knows what other people want but has no idea of what she wants. Surely she has some idea of what she wants-- how else could she describe how after a party she needs to stay under covers in bed? To me it seems that she's trying to present herself as some kind of a saint who cares about other people's needs so much that she forgets about her own needs.*
> 
> ...


This. I find it very interesting that with nearly every single INFJ video that's been posted on the internet, they kick it off with, "I'd like to contribute to the INFJ community", like it's some club or something. Not only that, but they each do it the same way, in that "we INFJs are so different from everybody else", that it becomes a humiliating caricature of itself. It's as if Vicky Jo is putting up a front to fit the idea of an INFJ, when we see how her mild differences and true thought process shine through her words.


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## chasingdreams (Jul 16, 2011)

spook said:


> * I read that INFP's self-worth isn't as dependent on the approval of others as an INFJ's, so if you're an INFP with low self-esteem, does it have more to do with failing to meet your own standards?* Not saying external approval would cease to be a factor, but perhaps both types have a slightly different orientation towards it ?


Yes that's exactly how I feel. I feel as though I'm not meeting up to my own standards, and that I'm a fail in my own eyes. External factors can trigger my low self-worth as well, but it's mostly me who causes it. I have to realize that I cannot perfect myself, and that days will come when I may not be able live up to my values because I'm just human.


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## Hastings (Jan 8, 2011)

Jorge said:


> Dang, she doesnt NOT seem like an introvert at all


Fe aux can manifest itself that way.


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## unico (Feb 3, 2011)

I do tend to put other people before myself and give of myself totally. I tend to place the comfort of others before my own. I don't think I get confused with my own values and group values, though. If I disagreed with group values and thought it was important I would openly disagree.


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## jess.belle (Aug 25, 2011)

spook said:


> VJ pointed out that she finds it easier to honour other people than her own self-worth/respect, what about the rest of you INFs? I read that INFP's self-worth isn't as dependent on the approval of others as an INFJ's, so if you're an INFP with low self-esteem, does it have more to do with failing to meet your own standards?


*YES.* Fi is more independent, in this way, than Fe. 

I can say with certainty that my sense of self-worth comes almost *solely* from within. I've always noticed that my self-esteem and general self-image enjoy an uncanny immunity to external influence (social standards, other individuals' opinions) that most other people lack. 

My evaluation of myself is based upon *my* judgment of me and no one else's. I suppose that makes me insular (insular at worst, independent at best), but I wouldn't have it any other way.

Strong Fi is probably what makes the INFP more stable and centered, in general, than the INFJ.


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## OrangeAppled (Jun 26, 2009)

VJ sounds like an unhealthy INFJ. Whenever an INFJ claims they always put others first & blah blah blah, it screams "VICTIM" to me. 

These people have very distorted perspectives & are unable to see or admit to themselves when they are selfish, unable to see when they are really pushing unwanted things on others which actually benefit _themselves_ (as opposed to "helping" the other person), and they often won't take personal responsibility for their actions, always finding an outside source to blame. They aren't putting others' needs before theirs, they just refuse to admit when they are acting on personal desires, maybe because they feel it is selfish to do so. However, that actually exacerbates selfishness because it doesn't allow for the self-awareness to be honest with yourself about your own motives.


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## Eric B (Jun 18, 2010)

OrangeAppled said:


> VJ sounds like an unhealthy INFJ. Whenever an INFJ claims they always put others first & blah blah blah, it screams "VICTIM" to me.
> 
> These people have very distorted perspectives & are unable to see or admit to themselves when they are selfish, unable to see when they are really pushing unwanted things on others which actually benefit _themselves_ (as opposed to "helping" the other person), and they often won't take personal responsibility for their actions, always finding an outside source to blame. They aren't putting others' needs before theirs, they just refuse to admit when they are acting on personal desires, maybe because they feel it is selfish to do so. However, that actually exacerbates selfishness because it doesn't allow for the self-awareness to be honest with yourself about your own motives.


 I think this thread http://personalitycafe.com/myers-briggs-forum/62927-isfps-black-sheep.html is the biggest support for my idea of her being ENTJ. Before, I had no explanation of whether she is simply ignorant of her type (which would be quite a charge, against the "expert" herself), or was deliberately hiding it (which would sound like an equally bad character assault). 
Yet in that topic, *she was actually telling someone else to hide [what she believed was] theirs*, so if she follows her own advice, there's our evidence!

So it makes sense that she chooses INFJ because it fits the image she wants to portray to promote her coaching business (a wise, nurturing sage). 
It all fits together, and it's really a dominant Te perspective driving the whole thing, and a demonic Fe that then plays victim and goes on the attack when others resist her or even fail to "appreciate" her enough.


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## Up and Away (Mar 5, 2011)

OrangeAppled said:


> VJ sounds like an unhealthy INFJ. Whenever an INFJ claims they always put others first & blah blah blah, it screams "VICTIM" to me.
> 
> These people have very distorted perspectives & are unable to see or admit to themselves when they are selfish, unable to see when they are really pushing unwanted things on others which actually benefit _themselves_ (as opposed to "helping" the other person), and they often won't take personal responsibility for their actions, always finding an outside source to blame. They aren't putting others' needs before theirs, they just refuse to admit when they are acting on personal desires, maybe because they feel it is selfish to do so. However, that actually exacerbates selfishness because it doesn't allow for the self-awareness to be honest with yourself about your own motives.


i encountered this situation today actually, but to be fair, i think it would be fair to say people that might be as you say in that sort of victim hood at times, are also at times considering others a lot. They might say A) consider others a lot, but then B) not follow through with what would have been necessary to be considerate, and ultimately be selfish. Not sure if victim is the right word here other than just insecure in social skills. But then beyond that if they blame that insecurity on something, then that is victimhood 10000%, is what im thinking, good stuff.

not to derail, but, wow life changes when not in that victim mode anymore. its much more fulfilling to logically take responsibility and come up with plans of action and stuff. thanks for da help with what seems like forever ago, but must have been only a month.


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## OrangeAppled (Jun 26, 2009)

Eric B said:


> I think this thread http://personalitycafe.com/myers-briggs-forum/62927-isfps-black-sheep.html is the biggest support for my idea of her being ENTJ. Before, I had no explanation of whether she is simply ignorant of her type (which would be quite a charge, against the "expert" herself), or was deliberately hiding it (which would sound like an equally bad character assault).
> Yet in that topic, *she was actually telling someone else to hide [what she believed was] theirs*, so if she follows her own advice, there's our evidence!
> 
> So it makes sense that she chooses INFJ because it fits the image she wants to portray to promote her coaching business (a wise, nurturing sage).
> It all fits together, and it's really a dominant Te perspective driving the whole thing, and a demonic Fe that then plays victim and goes on the attack when others resist her or even fail to "appreciate" her enough.


It's weird because she reminds me soooo much of my INFJ aunt (who is self-types & knows a decent amount about MBTI), and I typed my aunt as ENTJ initially. I think she is INFJ now, but her Fe is just crap (I think the same of my aunt). Her image seems like a strained, wannabe ENFJ to me, which is likely why she comes across as almost overbearing in her communication style & mannerisms at times. I know several Fe-aux types who almost overcompensate for their introversion in social situations.



Souled In said:


> i encountered this situation today actually, but to be fair, i think it would be fair to say people that might be as you say in that sort of victim hood at times, are also at times considering others a lot. They might say A) consider others a lot, but then B) not follow through with what would have been necessary to be considerate, and ultimately be selfish. Not sure if victim is the right word here other than just insecure in social skills. But then beyond that if they blame that insecurity on something, then that is victimhood 10000%, is what im thinking, good stuff.
> 
> not to derail, but, wow life changes when not in that victim mode anymore. its much more fulfilling to logically take responsibility and come up with plans of action and stuff. thanks for da help with what seems like forever ago, but must have been only a month.


I don't think it's a matter of not considering others, but deluding yourself into thinking you're considering others through some action that really benefits yourself first & foremost. It's a lack of honesty _with yourself_, not others. That's why I think these people truly believe they are victims. If there's an insecurity, it's with who they are deep down; they don't want to admit they ever act on their own needs for fear of being "selfish", which leads them to be blind to when they are selfish. Certainly IxFPs have their victimhood trap, but I think it plays out differently than it does with xxFJs. Fear of selfishness leading to selfishness with a facade of selflessness seems less of an issue with xxFPs. 

The last paragraph of yours is certainly true. I suppose some people just resist taking responsibility due to that insecurity....


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## Eric B (Jun 18, 2010)

OrangeAppled said:


> It's weird because she reminds me soooo much of my INFJ aunt (who is self-types & knows a decent amount about MBTI), and I typed my aunt as ENTJ initially. I think she is INFJ now, but her Fe is just crap (I think the same of my aunt). Her image seems like a strained, wannabe ENFJ to me, which is likely why she comes across as almost overbearing in her communication style & mannerisms at times. I know several Fe-aux types who almost overcompensate for their introversion in social situations.


 I don't know what you've seen of her. If it's just the site and videos, then she's obviously promoting herself as a caring FJ "hostess", (but with something a bit off, noticed by people). But I first ran across her on a Yahoo list, interacting directly with her (and seeing her interact with others) and she was _nothing_ like the INFJ's, and was far more than simply "overhbearing". I wish that was a public forum, and everyone could see what I'm talking about. And one would have to see it to believe it, especially compared with the videos!

For one, her whole _approach_ was totally different from an INFJ, even under stress or doing the so-called "door slam". What she was set off by in the first place is far different than what an irate INFJ is said to be set off by. There may have been some sort of Fe "compensation", but it was clearly not from a dom. or aux. starting point, but rather fits something from deep in the shadow, more. If you saw my clash with Jaguar over on TypoC a while ago, it was very similar (and he identifies as ENTJ, and reminded me _so much_ of her in the approach with the snide snarking methods), except for her coming completely out of her face when I didn't play along. (I discuss it more in the link in post #4). 

I also saw and heard about other clashes elsewhere, and she is clearly not what she presents herself as. She clearly operates from a Te agenda of promoting business. That's what it's ALL about with her, and some others have even picked it up.


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## Up and Away (Mar 5, 2011)

OrangeAppled said:


> It's weird because she reminds me soooo much of my INFJ aunt (who is self-types & knows a decent amount about MBTI), and I typed my aunt as ENTJ initially. I think she is INFJ now, but her Fe is just crap (I think the same of my aunt). Her image seems like a strained, wannabe ENFJ to me, which is likely why she comes across as almost overbearing in her communication style & mannerisms at times. I know several Fe-aux types who almost overcompensate for their introversion in social situations.
> 
> I don't think it's a matter of not considering others, but deluding yourself into thinking you're considering others through some action that really benefits yourself first & foremost. It's a lack of honesty _with yourself_, not others. That's why I think these people truly believe they are victims. If there's an insecurity, it's with who they are deep down; they don't want to admit they ever act on their own needs for fear of being "selfish", which leads them to be blind to when they are selfish. Certainly IxFPs have their victimhood trap, but I think it plays out differently than it does with xxFJs. Fear of selfishness leading to selfishness with a facade of selflessness seems less of an issue with xxFPs.
> 
> The last paragraph of yours is certainly true. I suppose some people just resist taking responsibility due to that insecurity....


I think there is a difference between people that are self absorbed due to intense pain and their associated defense mechanisms than people who borderline socio and psychopathic.

I would argue that people in denial from pain, victims as you put it, HAVE to benefit themselves first and foremost.

When you are bleeding from a wound, do you really expect to let yourself bleed out to save someone?

Sure, some people would I suppose, but often times someone bleeding out can't even mend someone elses wound correctly, and often times there are other more "stable" people to do so.

So I agree with you that it is delusion or simply just conventionally unreasonable for someone to think they are focused on others when they are only doing so out of defense mechanism, however on the other hand, believing they are victims, might simply be because they were the victim...

and have not recovered yet.

Personally and addressing a broader issue, I find it not only unfortunate that people lack knoweldge of their own tendency to trap others, but also that people lack knowledge of how to properly help and disarm someone's trap, pull out the arrow, and bandage.

victims aka people using a certain level of defense mechanisms to hide pain, might actually help others a lot, whether they realize they are self serving in delusion or not, but for them individually, this level of clarity you and others are giving can definitely be the first step towards pointing out the arrow, if not pulling it out with tenderness, but then burning and scalding the wound with disinfectant, then bandaging.. etc.

Interdependence


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## OrangeAppled (Jun 26, 2009)

Eric B said:


> I don't know what you've seen of her. If it's just the site and videos, then she's obviously promoting herself as a caring FJ "hostess", (but with something a bit off, noticed by people). But I first ran across her on a Yahoo list, interacting directly with her (and seeing her interact with others) and she was _nothing_ like the INFJ's, and was far more than simply "overhbearing". I wish that was a public forum, and everyone could see what I'm talking about. And one would have to see it to believe it, especially compared with the videos!
> 
> For one, her whole _approach_ was totally different from an INFJ, even under stress or doing the so-called "door slam". What she was set off by in the first place is far different than what an irate INFJ is said to be set off by. There may have been some sort of Fe "compensation", but it was clearly not from a dom. or aux. starting point, but rather fits something from deep in the shadow, more. If you saw my clash with Jaguar over on TypoC a while ago, it was very similar (and he identifies as ENTJ, and reminded me _so much_ of her in the approach with the snide snarking methods), except for her coming completely out of her face when I didn't play along. (I discuss it more in the link in post #4).
> 
> I also saw and heard about other clashes elsewhere, and she is clearly not what she presents herself as. She clearly operates from a Te agenda of promoting business. That's what it's ALL about with her, and some others have even picked it up.


I have not interacted with her that closely, so I'll take your word for it. It seems the woman is not a shining example of any type....possibly she represents Ni gone very bad, if she is an NJ.


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## Aizar (Mar 21, 2011)

OrangeAppled said:


> VJ sounds like an unhealthy INFJ. Whenever an INFJ claims they always put others first & blah blah blah, it screams "VICTIM" to me.
> 
> These people have very distorted perspectives & are unable to see or admit to themselves when they are selfish, unable to see when they are really pushing unwanted things on others which actually benefit _themselves_ (as opposed to "helping" the other person), and they often won't take personal responsibility for their actions, always finding an outside source to blame. They aren't putting others' needs before theirs, they just refuse to admit when they are acting on personal desires, maybe because they feel it is selfish to do so. However, that actually exacerbates selfishness because it doesn't allow for the self-awareness to be honest with yourself about your own motives.


I think you're looking at Fe through an Fi lens. 

It could be said I want others to be happy, because when they're happy, I'm happy. You could say that's selfish, but if so, that means acts of altruism of any sort are selfish; what goes around, comes around. In the end, that's all it is: I'm a mirror to what's going on in my social life, and it takes a conscious effort to not absorb the feelings of others. So I want my social life to reflect "well" on me, and I do that by making the atmosphere better. It serves me and the other person equally.


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## OrangeAppled (Jun 26, 2009)

Aizar said:


> I think you're looking at Fe through an Fi lens.
> 
> It could be said I want others to be happy, because when they're happy, I'm happy. You could say that's selfish, but if so, that means acts of altruism of any sort are selfish; what goes around, comes around. In the end, that's all it is: I'm a mirror to what's going on in my social life, and it takes a conscious effort to not absorb the feelings of others. So I want my social life to reflect "well" on me, and I do that by making the atmosphere better. It serves me and the other person equally.


No, this is a matter of deluding oneself into thinking others are happy when they are miserable so as to justify your actions as unselfish. It's also a matter of always blaming someone else when something goes wrong in your life because you refuse to examine your own actions through any other lens than the "unselfish" delusional one. See the difference?


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## Aizar (Mar 21, 2011)

OrangeAppled said:


> No, this is a matter of deluding oneself into thinking others are happy when they are miserable so as to justify your actions as unselfish. It's also a matter of always blaming someone else when something goes wrong in your life because you refuse to examine your own actions through any other lens than the "unselfish" delusional one. See the difference?


I do, but I still don't agree. Some people do that, but it's immaturity, not Fe.


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## Eric B (Jun 18, 2010)

Aizar said:


> I think you're looking at Fe through an Fi lens.
> 
> It could be said I want others to be happy, because when they're happy, I'm happy. You could say that's selfish, but if so, that means acts of altruism of any sort are selfish; what goes around, comes around. In the end, that's all it is: I'm a mirror to what's going on in my social life, and it takes a conscious effort to not absorb the feelings of others. So I want my social life to reflect "well" on me, and I do that by making the atmosphere better. It serves me and the other person equally.


 A good way to put that that I have learned, is that in the extraversion of a function like this, the ego or subject *merges with the object*. (Jung called this "empathizing", and it's any e function, not just Fe).


OrangeAppled said:


> No, this is a matter of deluding oneself into thinking others are happy when they are miserable so as to justify your actions as unselfish. It's also a matter of always blaming someone else when something goes wrong in your life because you refuse to examine your own actions through any other lens than the "unselfish" delusional one. See the difference?


This would probably be shadow Fe, as I mentioned. Also, perhaps very immature Fe, even if on the ego-syntonic side (e.g. tertiary, inferior). I know I could fall into that stuff (blaming others, thinking they're happy when they're not, etc) when I was younger, and before I became more aware of the Fe perspective. Because of the inferiority of the function, you feel you can't have any "strikes" against you by others, so it might come out that way to some extent. As the shadow of the inferior, it's similar, except that inferior Feeling is more internally oriented ("inegrity", etc), and when _that_ is threatened, you attack with Fe, and it comes out just as you describe.
If Fe is the shadow of the preferred functions (dom/aux), for an FP, then you tend to believe (likely subconsciously) you are an authority in values and ethics, but from an internal perspective, and if someone violates this, then you lash outward in an oppositional or critical fashion.

Now that I see there was an Ugly Betty thread here I did not know about, and which someone just resurrected, it reminded me of the Wilhemina character (Vanessa Williams), who most agree is ENTJ. I was watching first run of the show's later seasons around the time I got into it with VJ, and the way she communicates (in conflict, at least) reminded me so much of Wilhemina that it was like the same person.


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## OrangeAppled (Jun 26, 2009)

Aizar said:


> I do, but I still don't agree. Some people do that, but it's immaturity, not Fe.


I never said it was Fe. I said it's behavior I've seen in many ("unhealthy") INFJs. I actually think it's more of a Ni issue, where Fe is not providing enough balance as the aux function. I also didn't say there is never positive manifestations of Fe or positive qualities in general in these people, but this aspect makes them extremely difficult to deal with.


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## Aizar (Mar 21, 2011)

OrangeAppled said:


> I never said it was Fe. I said it's behavior I've seen in many ("unhealthy") INFJs. I actually think it's more of a Ni issue, where Fe is not providing enough balance as the aux function. I also didn't say there is never positive manifestations of Fe or positive qualities in general in these people, but this aspect makes them extremely difficult to deal with.


Oh! Derp Aizar.

Yes, I can see that.


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