# Enneagram CP 6 or 8, Character



## Silver Fire (Dec 3, 2014)

I'm having trouble identifying a character's Enneagram type. In short, I'm a writer, and this character has given me a lot of grief over his type. He just likes to be complicated, I'm sure of it. Initially I thought he might be an 8, then I moved to thinking he was a CP 6w5, and recently I went back to considering the 8w9. So now I'm stuck between those. 

I know there are a lot of discussions about 8's versus CP 6's and I've read many of them, but I still can't quite get a handle on what he might be. I'm wondering if anyone here can help me solidify what type he is.  I'm not really sure where to start on describing him. He's the strong, silent type, in the most simple terms possible. He's very protective of the key people in his life, very active in trampling threats, but there is one person in particular he feels like he trusts and relies on to make him feel anchored. However, he still has a mentality of being that "pillar of strength". He speaks relatively calmly, but does drive others around him to do their best. He is strategic, and thoughtful, and very protective. He often appears laid back, but can be very intimidating, and aggressive. 

(P.S. He's an ISFJ or an INFJ. The results vary on the tests, and sometimes in the moment of his character.)


(I posted this in a different forum, but I think it may have been the wrong one to post in. Sorry. I'm new here. >_<)


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## Quang (Sep 4, 2014)

'Strategic, strong, thoughtful, protective of key people in his life' sounds like a 258 for me: 

458 is also a possible result for 'strong silent type', although it brings about a darker, opinionated trait whereas to the more sociable warm and cool quality of 258. 5s have a more tenacious quality than 6s that constantly want reassurance from a higher authority.


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## Remcy (Dec 19, 2011)

He does sound like an 8. I'm curious though, what's the name of the character you're trying to type?


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## Silver Fire (Dec 3, 2014)

Remcy said:


> He does sound like an 8. I'm curious though, what's the name of the character you're trying to type?


Heh. It's pretty unique as it's entirely made up, so I like to keep it a secret, if I can. 

I did a trifix test for him and he came up 6w5, 8w9, 4w5. Not sure if that adds anything. I would say that he is generally very aware of dangers and threats, and can be somewhat anxious. I also don't ever see him blustering, as he's very modest and humble, and likes to stay out of the center of focus (until he's in it, and then he is that "pillar of strength"). I guess those were my main doubts in completely assuming he is an 8.


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## Quang (Sep 4, 2014)

Silver Fire said:


> Heh. It's pretty unique as it's entirely made up, so I like to keep it a secret, if I can.
> 
> I did a trifix test for him and he came up 6w5, 8w9, 4w5. Not sure if that adds anything. I would say that he is generally very aware of dangers and threats, and can be somewhat anxious. I also don't ever see him blustering, as he's very modest and humble, and likes to stay out of the center of focus (until he's in it, and then he is that "pillar of strength"). I guess those were my main doubts in completely assuming he is an 8.


6w5 brings out a more openly reactive, defensive, doubting trait whereas to the more secretive and intense 5w6. 684's energy is more volatile whereas to 584's colder and penetrating energy. According to your description, it sounds like SO 584 (totem)


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Essentially you need to ask yourself how he sees himself: does he inherently think he's weak, insignificant, irrelevant and feels like he lacks ability to have impact and affect or does he feel that he's weak for letting himself being emotionally stirred by sadness and other tragic events, does his desire to protect and seek loyalty stem from innocence-projection, that he needs to protect those he sees as being in an unjust and unfair position in order to protect himself and his own sense of goodness that he denies and he seeks an internalized need for redemption for thinking he's just an inherently bad person? 

A big difference between 6 and 8 is that 6s don't see themselves as inherently bad, but they are good people in a bad world and they struggle with their own sense of how to survive in it because of it, that they feel good makes them feel vulnerable and unprotected and without stability because if they are the only ones who are good and try to do good, who can they trust? 8 thinks they are bad and were cast out of the good of the world and are left to struggle in the gutter with the rest of the bad and are intent to become the top dog because for 8 it's more kill or be killed. 6s fear that they will not survive, 8s do not doubt in their ability to survive.


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## Silver Fire (Dec 3, 2014)

Quang said:


> 6w5 brings out a more openly reactive, defensive, doubting trait whereas to the more secretive and intense 5w6. 684's energy is more volatile whereas to 584's colder and penetrating energy. According to your description, it sounds like SO 584 (totem)


I don't think he's so withdraw as that, and I wouldn't call him cold and penetrating, though he can be cold. Volatile is a word I would use to describe him. But now I'm curious about this 584 theory. Though I don't see him as a knowledge accumulator. Hmm...



Entropic said:


> Essentially you need to ask yourself how he sees himself: does he inherently think he's weak, insignificant, irrelevant and feels like he lacks ability to have impact and affect or does he feel that he's weak for letting himself being emotionally stirred by sadness and other tragic events, does his desire to protect and seek loyalty stem from innocence-projection, that he needs to protect those he sees as being in an unjust and unfair position in order to protect himself and his own sense of goodness that he denies and he seeks an internalized need for redemption for thinking he's just an inherently bad person?


Out of those questions, he doesn't think he's weak. However, sometimes, and often, he thinks that he won't be able to beat the dangerous world out there. He's fairly confident in himself, though. He goes between looking impressive, being impressive, to just "keeping it in his pocket" until its time for him to really whip out all that intimidation, power, etc. It depends on the situation. For instance, if there is a place that he knows for sure he's going to be near someone he thinks is dangerous, he will go to lengths to also show how dangerous he is. If he's in a situation where he doesn't want to intimidate, he hides that dangerous factor and only pulls it out once he feels he needs to (i.e. he feels threatened, or feels that someone else is threatened, or that there is a threat). 

He does tend to side with those in an unjust and unfair position and is quickly there to help the underdog, so to speak. Usually he only does so if he feels they are innocents though.



Entropic said:


> A big difference between 6 and 8 is that 6s don't see themselves as inherently bad, but they are good people in a bad world and they struggle with their own sense of how to survive in it because of it, that they feel good makes them feel vulnerable and unprotected and without stability because if they are the only ones who are good and try to do good, who can they trust? 8 thinks they are bad and were cast out of the good of the world and are left to struggle in the gutter with the rest of the bad and are intent to become the top dog because for 8 it's more kill or be killed. 6s fear that they will not survive, 8s do not doubt in their ability to survive.


Yeah, he doesn't see himself as inherently bad. What you said first about being a good person in a bad world sounds accurate. But he does do that 8 thing of killing or be killed, but I do think that it probably comes from a survival basis. I just don't know if it comes from feeling vulnerable per say? Though it might be. There could be a facet of that, I suppose.


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## Silver Fire (Dec 3, 2014)

P.S. I did a trifix again, and with very slight alteration to the answers about emotions and I got a 6w5, 8w9, 3w2 for him. I think it probably depends on if he's being emotional, or trying to be dependable which one he would come out as - which if he's a Six makes a good deal of sense? (This seems more difficult than a real person, since, you know, he's made up.  Though I must say, I have a real person in my life who has been difficult to classify.... This person's trifix seems to be 6w5, 9w1, 3w2, though we are all pretty sure he's actually a 5w6, 9w1, 3w2.)


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## Quang (Sep 4, 2014)

Silver Fire said:


> P.S. I did a trifix again, and with very slight alteration to the answers about emotions and I got a 6w5, 8w9, 3w2 for him. I think it probably depends on if he's being emotional, or trying to be dependable which one he would come out as - which if he's a Six makes a good deal of sense? (This seems more difficult than a real person, since, you know, he's made up.  Though I must say, I have a real person in my life who has been difficult to classify.... His trifix seems to be 6w5, 9w1, 3w2, though we are all pretty sure he's actually a 5w6, 9w1, 3w2.)


3-9 brings along a professional conformist touch, while the 5 or 6 affects the approach. 593 is soft-cunning and invisible, while 693 is more 'adaptable' and ambivalent.


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## Arya (Oct 17, 2012)

Entropic said:


> Essentially you need to ask yourself how he sees himself: does he inherently think he's weak, insignificant, irrelevant and feels like he lacks ability to have impact and affect or does he feel that he's weak for letting himself being emotionally stirred by sadness and other tragic events, does his desire to protect and seek loyalty stem from innocence-projection, that he needs to protect those he sees as being in an unjust and unfair position in order to protect himself and his own sense of goodness that he denies and he seeks an internalized need for redemption for thinking he's just an inherently bad person?
> 
> A big difference between 6 and 8 is that 6s don't see themselves as inherently bad, but they are good people in a bad world and they struggle with their own sense of how to survive in it because of it, that they feel good makes them feel vulnerable and unprotected and without stability because if they are the only ones who are good and try to do good, who can they trust? 8 thinks they are bad and were cast out of the good of the world and are left to struggle in the gutter with the rest of the bad and are intent to become the top dog because for 8 it's more kill or be killed. 6s fear that they will not survive, 8s do not doubt in their ability to survive.


A lot of sixes do not consciously relate to feeling weak. I know I don't. I tend to automatically assume I am strong and unbreakable. It's always a surprise to me when I realize I'm not handling something. And also to nitpick you slightly, many sixes do not think of themselves as good. In fact sixes are very comfortable with the idea that they are insensitive jerks looking out for themselves and their family/friends. Being good or bad is simply not a huge concern for many sixes. I don't care whether others are good or bad either. It is much more complex. I care about my survival. Someone could be doing "good" but if negatively affects me I might try to go up against it. Those are not terms in my vocabulary. I am not a good person in an unjust world. I'm a dark person in a dark world fending for myself. 

This sums up how a lot of sixes are actually. And on a conscious level this is what I believe about myself. But yeah, I'm not even going to bother calling myself a good person. That's almost a joke to me because I know I'm insensitive and think about myself first. Not to mention I see good and bad in shades of gray and mostly subjective. 






*"Unbreakable"*

Where are the people that accused me?
The ones who beat me down and bruised me
They hide just out of sight
Can't face me in the light
They'll return but I'll be stronger

_[Chorus:]_
God, I want to dream again
Take me where I've never been
I want to go there
This time I'm not scared
Now I am unbreakable, it's unmistakable
No one can touch me
Nothing can stop me

Sometimes it's hard to just keep going
But faith is moving without knowing
Can I trust what I can't see?
To reach my destiny
I want to take control but I know better

_[Chorus]_

Forget the fear it's just a crutch
That tries to hold you back
And turn your dreams to dust
All you need to do is just trust


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

@Arya fair enough. How does your assumption of being strong and unbreakable show up in you, and how do you feel/react when you realize you are not? My overall impression from speaking to other 6s seems to be that they fundamentally tend to retreat and have this "hopelessness" notion attached to things, that there's no point to try or do anything. I cba to explain further right now but it ties into feeling weak and a sense of inability to ever be able to truly come back would you actually fall but I think you know what I mean anyway.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Silver Fire said:


> I'm having trouble identifying a character's Enneagram type. In short, I'm a writer, and this character has given me a lot of grief over his type. He just likes to be complicated, I'm sure of it. Initially I thought he might be an 8, then I moved to thinking he was a CP 6w5, and recently I went back to considering the 8w9. So now I'm stuck between those.
> I know there are a lot of discussions about 8's versus CP 6's and I've read many of them, but I still can't quite get a handle on what he might be. I'm wondering if anyone here can help me solidify what type he is.  I'm not really sure where to start on describing him. He's the strong, silent type, in the most simple terms possible. He's very protective of the key people in his life, very active in trampling threats, but there is one person in particular he feels like he trusts and relies on to make him feel anchored. However, he still has a mentality of being that "pillar of strength". He speaks relatively calmly, but does drive others around him to do their best. He is strategic, and thoughtful, and very protective. He often appears laid back, but can be very intimidating, and aggressive.
> (P.S. He's an ISFJ or an INFJ. The results vary on the tests, and sometimes in the moment of his character.)
> (I posted this in a different forum, but I think it may have been the wrong one to post in. Sorry. I'm new here. >_<)


1) stop relying on tests (for both MBTI and Enneagram). they are inaccurate as hell 
2) we need more info


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## Arya (Oct 17, 2012)

Entropic said:


> @_Arya_ fair enough. How does your assumption of being strong and unbreakable show up in you, and how do you feel/react when you realize you are not? My overall impression from speaking to other 6s seems to be that they fundamentally tend to retreat and have this "hopelessness" notion attached to things, that there's no point to try or do anything. I cba to explain further right now but it ties into feeling weak and a sense of inability to ever be able to truly come back would you actually fall but I think you know what I mean anyway.


I go for things head on and then all of a sudden I realize I am falling apart. My first reaction is to strengthen myself even more and suppress weakness, because there is a voice in my head saying you are pathetic, get even stronger. Don't you dare crumble now. So then I push myself against the world even more, because I can't let it win. I have to win. I mean that's basically impossible. No human can ever win, but I have the push anyways. I am hopeless that is true. In the end everything is hopeless, but that doesn't stop me from fighting till the bitter end. What's the point of even living if you don't at least fight for anything? It might all be pointless in the end, but at least you did something. You left your mark I guess. I will also add that being raised in a religious family gave me an unshakeable hope that there could be a point. I can't get rid of that hope. And I've gotten really nihilistic but it always comes back.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Arya said:


> I go for things head on and then all of a sudden I realize I am falling apart. My first reaction is to strengthen myself even more and suppress weakness, because there is a voice in my head saying you are pathetic, get even stronger. Don't you dare crumble now. So then I push myself against the world even more, because I can't let it win. I have to win. I mean that's basically impossible. No human can ever win, but I have the push anyways. I am hopeless that is true. In the end everything is hopeless, but that doesn't stop me from fighting till the bitter end. What's the point of even living if you don't at least fight for anything? It might all be pointless in the end, but at least you did something. You left your mark I guess. I will also add that being raised in a religious family gave me an unshakeable hope that there could be a point. I can't get rid of that hope. And I've gotten really nihilistic but it always comes back.


Heh, well some of it is relatable but I don't think 6 and 8 are too dissimilar in this regard; just different underlying motivations and what strength really means. I don't ever feel things are impossible though and I feel there is meaning in the fight and struggle and even if I do feel some things cannot be overcome I feel like it's not the end of the world for not trying because I know my limitations and where to draw the line. It's more like a tactical retreat, kinda, which I think 6s actually got issues with because they are scared that they will look weak if they do. I suppose that's the difference. I don't mind retreating and coming back later because I don't doubt in my ability to come back. I think one of my bigger issues actually is that I am too careless when it comes to my own safety; not sure if it's just an sp last thing or not, but I don't fear death or dying. Those kinds of thoughts rarely occupy my mind, that I actually am mortal. 

Also, I don't think much in terms of whether something is hopeless or not. I do see this doubting activity more in 6s, like it's difficult for them to even get going in this regard. Once they start doubting it's a hopeless endless downward spiral. lol, I think hope even means different things for us, thinking about it. Like, when I think of a 6 being hopeless it's more just like they give up before they even tried. It's an odd mentality to me, but it's not so much that they themselves see it as hopeless but more like how they just burrow their boots into the sand and I want to shake them up. Man, you have no idea how many motivational speeches I've told some 6s around me whenever they go into this mode. lol, gf once told me I should hold seminars and get paid for this shit.

I just like the idea of being able to affect or I would probably not bother with those speeches either. It's like I almost have this compulsive need to try.


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## Arya (Oct 17, 2012)

Entropic said:


> Heh, well some of it is relatable but I don't think 6 and 8 are too dissimilar in this regard; just different underlying motivations and what strength really means. I don't ever feel things are impossible though and I feel there is meaning in the fight and struggle and even if I do feel some things cannot be overcome I feel like it's not the end of the world for not trying because I know my limitations and where to draw the line. It's more like a tactical retreat, kinda, which I think 6s actually got issues with because they are scared that they will look weak if they do. I suppose that's the difference. I don't mind retreating and coming back later because I don't doubt in my ability to come back. I think one of my bigger issues actually is that I am too careless when it comes to my own safety; not sure if it's just an sp last thing or not, but I don't fear death or dying. Those kinds of thoughts rarely occupy my mind, that I actually am mortal.
> 
> Also, I don't think much in terms of whether something is hopeless or not. I do see this doubting activity more in 6s, like it's difficult for them to even get going in this regard. Once they start doubting it's a hopeless endless downward spiral. lol, I think hope even means different things for us, thinking about it. Like, when I think of a 6 being hopeless it's more just like they give up before they even tried. It's an odd mentality to me, but it's not so much that they themselves see it as hopeless but more like how they just burrow their boots into the sand and I want to shake them up. Man, you have no idea how many motivational speeches I've told some 6s around me whenever they go into this mode. lol, gf once told me I should hold seminars and get paid for this shit.
> 
> I just like the idea of being able to affect or I would probably not bother with those speeches either. It's like I almost have this compulsive need to try.


Haha. Sixes are stubborn as all get out. They usually seem to have to motivate themselves before they'll unburrow themselves, but maybe eights are good at it. They have very forceful energy, which would affect a six.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Arya said:


> Haha. Sixes are stubborn as all get out. They usually seem to have to motivate themselves before they'll unburrow themselves, but maybe eights are good at it. They have very forceful energy, which would affect a six.


my observations of the differences
- 6s are more neurotic, even if some are very good at hiding it. 8s are seldom neurotic (I've known more than one 8 who had PTSD, and even they were not neurotic)
- 6s are more affected by assertive energy in a fight/flight sort of way. 8s are fairly neutral until something proves to be an actual threat
- similarly, cp6 is preemptively aggressive; 8 is aggressive _after_ someone hurts them (though they may become more preemptive in the event that someone threats a person they care for)
- 6s test more than 8s, and usually do so in a more indirect and/or political manner


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Arya said:


> Haha. Sixes are stubborn as all get out. They usually seem to have to motivate themselves before they'll unburrow themselves, but maybe eights are good at it. They have very forceful energy, which would affect a six.


Well, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Depends on how much faith they have in me and my ability to support them in that very moment and how that can translate into a faith in themselves. The problem is if it starts getting obnoxiously stubborn so I can get berating because I get angry so I tell them to stand up and fight, life isn't over until you are dead/you say it's over etc. Doesn't happen often, I try to be understanding. I am not entirely sure who would respond well to that except another 8 maybe. Those kind of challenges incite an odd fighting spirit, like gotta prove them wrong or something like that. My overall experience is that 6s don't respond well to that, not when they are already experiencing themselves as lying down, at least. 

To clarify further, as an example, sometimes when I play LoL or another competitive game with other players present and they start bitching about my performance being suboptimal in that game, it starts this drive to prove that I'm better than they say they think I am. So if they bitch my score is terrible, I'll make myself end up with what would be a good score just to prove to them that you don't bitch at me and give me bad rep as a player. A 6 in a similar situation just seems to usually crumble in the face of that kind of opposition like it gets to them in a way it doesn't to me; it becomes a challenge to overcome, not just to win the game, but to prove to my own teammates that I'm better than them. Also, a 6 may start to bitch back and feel that they need to prove their own value and worth to these people but not necessarily through action but through words; to logically convince and to make them shut up and not reacting against that is seen as weak, whereas I have this intrinsic sense that I already know my value and worth and I just put it into action so they see for themselves. I value action a lot and how actions say about people. So if I bitch back I may, but not because I do not believe in my own ability, but because the claims are to me, ludicrous and not true. I don't like dishonest accusations. To me honesty is a big deal. They can talk all kind of BS they want as long they don't make up shit that isn't true. I may even find it mildly humorous if it's really off the mark though, and may enter into an argument for that reason alone. 

6s don't seem to inherently trust in that, so if they notice others think they are performing badly or whatever, it gets to them in a very different way and becomes very demotivating as it can fundamentally prove their own sense of incapability. Others don't trust them so why should they? 

Heh, I just realized both 6 and 8 got a disintegration connection to a competency type. Ah, something to mull over now.


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## Arya (Oct 17, 2012)

Entropic said:


> Well, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Depends on how much faith they have in me and my ability to support them in that very moment and how that can translate into a faith in themselves. The problem is if it starts getting obnoxiously stubborn so I can get berating because I get angry so I tell them to stand up and fight, life isn't over until you are dead/you say it's over etc. Doesn't happen often, I try to be understanding. I am not entirely sure who would respond well to that except another 8 maybe. Those kind of challenges incite an odd fighting spirit, like gotta prove them wrong or something like that. My overall experience is that 6s don't respond well to that, not when they are already experiencing themselves as lying down, at least.
> 
> To clarify further, as an example, sometimes when I play LoL or another competitive game with other players present and they start bitching about my performance being suboptimal in that game, it starts this drive to prove that I'm better than they say they think I am. So if they bitch my score is terrible, I'll make myself end up with what would be a good score just to prove to them that you don't bitch at me and give me bad rep as a player. A 6 in a similar situation just seems to usually crumble in the face of that kind of opposition like it gets to them in a way it doesn't to me; it becomes a challenge to overcome, not just to win the game, but to prove to my own teammates that I'm better than them. Also, a 6 may start to bitch back and feel that they need to prove their own value and worth to these people whereas I have this intrinsic sense that I already know my value and worth and I just put it into action so they see for themselves. 6s don't seem to inherently trust in that, so if they notice others think they are performing badly or whatever, it gets to them in a very different way and becomes very demotivating as it can fundamentally prove their own sense of incapability.
> 
> Heh, I just realized both 6 and 8 got a disintegration connection to a competency type. Ah, something to mull over now.


Actually I am very similar in that sense. I was in love with a guy for a very long time who used to tell me I was pathetic when I was being weak or whatever. I have never been so adamant about overcoming than after that. I overcame every fear I had. He told me it was pathetic I had bad self esteem, so I learned better self esteem. My reaction was bizarre I will even admit. I didn't feel weak, or feel upset that he insulted me. I just had this desire to prove myself. And I did. Even he had to respect my strength after a certain point. Later he told me the elements that represented me were water and iron, because everything just passes through me unless you hit the beam of iron at the center, and then I rage. And now I stand on my own. I used to lean on him, but I found my self esteem, and it's basically unshakeable. You wouldn't think being insulted in almost every way would give unshakeable self esteem but it did for me. I proved my strength to myself and figured out who I was. He got rid of me after a while. But I feel stronger than ever. I don't always succeed, but I know I have what it takes I guess. And I'm not afraid to fail. I did everything for him I guess. Very SX response. And now I'm doing it all for me. I struggled at my job for a while too, because I'm the only female among a bunch of guys. Everyone doubted me at first, and tried to set me up for a failure because no guy likes a woman to beat him, but now they all openly admit I'm stronger and more fearless than them, which is funny. They go to me for help. Of course, now their game is to be weak little martyrs who try to emotionally manipulate what they want out of me, which isn't working because it made me rage. And it's hard to make me rage, because I have a nine fix. Usually I just don't care what anyone does, even when I've been sexually harassed/assaulted sorta. Long story, but I really didn't feel affected. I still don't. Sometimes I could almost believe I was a 9 I'm so impervious to everything.


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## Lord Bullingdon (Aug 9, 2014)

@Arya You've made a lot of interesting comments. I'm wondering what you feel the differences between 6 and 8 are.
@Silver Fire To your OP, I'm wondering if there's a tritype description that sounds like your character. Maybe you should start there and work backwards.


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## Silver Fire (Dec 3, 2014)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> 1) stop relying on tests (for both MBTI and Enneagram). they are inaccurate as hell


I agree they are inaccurate many times, however, in the stage I'm at with writing this character, I prefer to explore the options, to look as deeply as I can, even if I end up rejecting the "system". Thank you, but I'll go about my process how I go about it. ;D



Swordsman of Mana said:


> 2) we need more info


I can't give a whole character biography in one post.  I figured I'd start with that and the discussion would continue.


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