# Values vs. Compulsions: Your e-type Controls You



## Animal (May 29, 2012)

Oak said:


> Welcome to being human & being a woman.


Human??? Noooo! :frustrating: *retreats to home planet*



> For awhile after I discovered the Enneagram I, like you, psycho-analysed my every action in hopes of some revelation, but that just takes the fun out of living. Living by the textbook(enneagram) is a waste of life. Live your life fully & once you are 80 years old you can try & type yourself.


I don't tend to analyze myself or seek revelations in general. I just live, read, and absorb, and revelations happen on their own. Analyzing can be a fun mental exercise but you're right, it can hold a person back if the need for answers becomes neurotic or if enneagram typing becomes a search for identity. 


I'm fine with questioning people's types for the fun & bonding & exploration of it; I don't need a definite answer. Sometimes I'll have a "What has been seen cannot be unseen!! :ninja:" moment, and then I'll know someone's type. For mine, I'm learning about myself either way and I'm content to type at 8w4/4w8 until one makes itself more clear than the other. 

Studying enneagram constitutes more than 'finding the right type.' The journey is much more important than the destination. The process sheds light on things which challenge me to grow. Then I am left with more tools in the toolbox - and I would miss out on that if I waited until I was 80 to type myself.  

Enneagram study also helps me torture my fictional characters roud: and makes for enlightening conversation with people like @_Boss_ who are crazy enough to study enneagram as enthusiastically as I do.


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## rajAs (Sep 14, 2012)

Congratulations for such a topic. I'll gladly give my 2 cents.

You made me think about what I'm mostly looking for and what used to lead me to a mistyping. I'm talking about action and high energy, which are probably the most liberating things I can taste in my life right now. This focus of mine used to make me see myself as a 3 sometimes. To avoid a tl;dr, I could summarize like that:

*Value* (my focus): get things done. Pure action, no need to think. I know what I want and what to do and I'll do it without hesitation. Pure core 9 thing. Everything I do has an underlayer of love. I have 3w4 in tritype, which probably leads me to ambition and a strong need for relization through work.

*Compulsion*: when I lose my bearings I enter my elephant mode. My bed and my computer become my black holes. No more action, too many thoughts. Impossible to understand what to do.

*How this value and this compulsion oppose each other*: (see the underlined parts above)

*In which way I work against myself*: compulsion to 6 starts the inner dialogue, thing I'm not used to deal with since my 1 wing is weak. I start thinking I don't need to interact that much with the world. "What matters is just to be happy, why should I face the world? Enjoy _hic et nunc_, simply enjoy the rest, your internet, your close friends. It's still awesome!" (I've got 7 in tritype, another id type with 3: I totally lack control of my desires - or not desires!). That's a loop that leads me to my sloth that I can hardly win with so much id and an inner dialogue supporting its silence.

*How I avoid my loop*: my aim is to keep my energy high. Motivation is the key point. Too many hours in front of a computer are symptoms of compulsion, so I start to look for what's going on inside me. Maybe I'd like a new job? Did someone hurt me? What's missing inside me to let me exit from my house and go outside to live an exciting life? In these situations I try to force myself to stop and let what's narcotized to disclose. This solution is weak because I have no idea on how to lead my desires.


This topic isn't easy, hope I didn't go OT


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## Dyidia (May 28, 2010)

dfoster said:


> I'd argue that it is still very hard to have any values not influenced by or derived from one's compulsions. Within each of us, there are values more important than other values. My biggest, most powerful values are still connected to my 8-ness. It's like an oyster developing a pearl from the affliction of a grain of sand, the oyster didn't chose the sand, it chose the oyster  I accept that my affliction is behind my "pearl" and I'm not as virtuous as my ego would like me to think.
> 
> We have big values and small values and the *values *we use to filter/prioritize our values are also our values. It's like you talking to two experts, one says the best thing for your company right now is focused marketing, the other says the best thing is product development in an untapped market. You have been given two values, you have to choose which one. You choose the marketing approach because it is the *safest*. You already apply your own value in the valuing process. So the final value: "focused marketing" has the deciding value in it : *safety*.
> 
> ...


I'm aware you were probably using this as an example for Animal's sake, but for the record I don't disagree with this point. Of course I can't separate it. Why _would_ you choose values at odds with your compulsions? You have to first understand what your compulsions are before the values you choose have any substance. It's only within the compulsions that values are possible. 

My point was simply that, once understood, there's a spectrum of where one can direct oneself (e.g. Acedia vs Holy Love). I acknowledged the fuzziness in passing because I think it is beyond the scope of this thread.

As for the interpretation, that's not what I meant by socially desirable. I mean it in the objective sense, insofar as I'm capable of doing so. They are what I think should be valued, not what keeps me safe. Where I fail, all these values are what suits _me_. I want to know the inner lives of people , hence honest self-expression. I can't develop a substantial relationship with people who don't respect themselves, nor can they if I lack it myself.


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## Feathers Falling (Sep 5, 2012)

Awesome post, Maybe Maybe :kitteh:

In the past, my values have been seriously overpowered by my compulsions. It's upsetting to look back and see myself break the very things I've always wanted to live by. Almost like I failed to live up to what I thought I was. Anyways, everything is an experience to learn from and you can always move towards what you want to be. I've learned that growing isn't easy. It takes time, and there are many set backs. But you can always move forward if you choose to. 
*

My values:* Independence, Strength, Will, Integrity

*My compulsions:* To be happy, to do what I want, and to get what I want without working for it


*Independence
*_In my mind_: I've always desired to be independent, even as a kid. I looked down on friends who needed things, whether that was material things or having things done for them. I also looked down on those friends who were codependent on their SO's, who let others rule their emotions and their happiness. I looked down on people who needed others. I thought I was a pretty unneedy, self-sufficient child.

_Reality:_ I was spoiled by an amazing ISFJ father who never prepared me for life's hardships. I never asked for much, but I always got what I asked for. I had little self-discipline. I had low self-esteem from years of being shy. I had no boundaries and couldn't stand up for myself. As an older teenager I learned to mask most of my low self-esteem with a narcissistic ego, by being a 'flashy 7' so I could distract people from the truth and feel better. I felt entitled to good treatment and to get whatever I wanted whenever I wanted it. Because of all this, I later became codependent on a manipulative liar. When he started treating me badly, I expected him to treat me well, to be honest to me, to apologize for being an asshole. When he did none of these things, my world broke. My voice became smaller and smaller, and I became dependent on his lies. I needed to be happy and I thought the only way was through his acceptance. I did and said some stupid shit, including begging. *Talk about being needy.

Strength and Will*
_In my mind:_ I've always looked up to those who were mentally strong and could handle anything. I thought I was strong as a child. I rarely cried like my other friends. I could get through life's hardships without much of a scratch. I was never depressed. Didn't fret over dead relatives. I've always looked up to people who could do whatever they put their minds to. I looked down on people who were addicted to alcohol or drugs. I would never depend on any substance. I never even had interest in smoking. Fitting in meant nothing to me. 

_Reality:_ I needed to be happy. It was easier for me to distract myself from pain. I didn't know what pain was as a kid because I.. I don't even remember. 7s often say they can't remember the bad times very well... If you had asked me a couple years ago if I was a happy kid, I would tell you of course! I had a great childhood! However in reality, I had an alcoholic deadbeat mother, 3 house fires, a very depressed father, and isolated myself from friends for most of my younger years. I was free from drugs and alcohol, til later. I became very dependent on some substances. VERY dependent. It changed me. And I wasn't strong enough to break away from them until it was almost too late. I also needed others' approval and acceptance to feel good about myself. I had no willpower or discipline for anything. *Talk about being weak. *

*Integrity*
_In my mind:_ I've always had strong morals and values. I adhered to them. I never lied or hurt anyone. I was selfless and giving to my friends. I was mature. 

_Reality:_ I've lied. I've intentionally hurt others. I've used others. I've been extremely selfish. I was extremely immature until 22. _*Talk about lacking integrity. *_



*
Conclusion:* It's funny what we think we are, when we're actually not. The strongest point of addiction is the most difficult time to admit you have a problem. It takes self reflection and hard work to truly be what you want to be. Compulsions are easy. They're the first to come. But it takes true Strength, Will, and Integrity to live by your values.

It's funny how our core fear can drive us towards the very thing we fear most. 

We certainly do work against ourselves, don't we? :kitteh:


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## Donovan (Nov 3, 2009)

not sure, really. 

wanting intimacy--something where a person(s) can actually trust each other enough to lower their defenses, completely. to really just exist with a few, select people. 


... i liken it to a person who's secretly afraid of swimming but won't admit to it--may not even be aware of it--so while out and about, at the urging of his friend to jump in, he dips a foot, timidly splashes some water, and then tries to pretend that that was "acceptable". 


this person realizes the deficiency, but fears the warmth and freedom of jumping in--the level of closeness that will ensue. 


and then, if the friend happens to swim over to the other side of the river, that is now a side you want to be on. but you still can't make yourself take the dive, so you let the water become an obstacle to maneuver around, and in doing so, you give it power over you; it's no longer something that will offer peace or happiness, but a source of anxiety, and since you naturally fight what makes you anxious, you turn away from the river itself altogether in search of whatever else will bring you to that person. 


you see her playing in the water, and she looks so happy--and you want that too, but you're convinced it's possible to have it by a means other than swimming. and so you think, and you think, and you're presented with options that are much less pleasant, much harder, but doable--and you do those things, you get there. she is taken aback by the bruises and scrapes it took, showing her perplexity as she smiles and runs her hands through the water, showing what could be enjoyed--and you smile, sit down on the overhang, and place your feet back in. 


each and every day, as she moves freely through this environment, you go to make the same trek, willingly. you want to make her happy, yet can't bring yourself to do what is actually needed; so instead, as she moves from shore to shore, your treks become more frequent, longer, harder--and you put forth even more energy into maintaining it, into completing these little journeys, and in doing so, remove yourself from ever having to actually join that person in the water. 

giving into that intimacy is unraveling: eventually, you close your eyes and let go—and you’re in, and it’s great. nothing to worry about, happiness all around—that ever present gap is closed, and you can feel an actual, harmoniously beautiful, connection. eventually, once you’ve waded out to the middle and you’re both playing some silly-assed game, perspective shifts, reality sets in, and you realize how far you’ve strayed from the shore. your sight comes back and a panic sets in, one so bad and deeply rooted that you’re not even scared—your mind is too saturated to differentiate anything in its own solidarity; fear becomes frustration, your warmth coldness, and your affection—something you want to give for what you know it creates—absent. as soon as it happens, your mind has already oriented itself back towards a state in which that particular base can’t be found, and so you start search again on how to maneuver around the water. 

the feeling of what was experienced is still there, still motivating, but it can’t entirely come to the surface as it’s the one thing that is being tamped down in order to find. so, you look, and you look, and you press it down even further and it becomes even stronger—and eventually it will win, but will become malformed in the process of overcoming you. 

you grind yourself down as you attempt to do something that, objectively, is far easier than any of your other choices… maybe it’s a fear being unable to maintain it because the person can overwhelm you in the process, but really it’s that i’ll overwhelm myself, “lose” myself in the process; trust, that i can handle it (everything else is cake ), and that the other person is someone who’s willing to work on it, through it all, with me. 

i think this is more of a sx v.s. 6-fear-of-intimacy-thing, more so that my values clashing with the nature of a 6 (or variant for that matter). but really, i can’t think of a value—good or bad—that wouldn’t fit a 6 since we’re based on a contradiction/push-pull mentality (as all types are, but to me at least, it seems to be the bread-n-butter of a 6).


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## Animal (May 29, 2012)

~shameless bump~


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

cata.lyst.rawr said:


> Awesome post, Maybe Maybe :kitteh:
> 
> In the past, my values have been seriously overpowered by my compulsions. It's upsetting to look back and see myself break the very things I've always wanted to live by. Almost like I failed to live up to what I thought I was. Anyways, everything is an experience to learn from and you can always move towards what you want to be. I've learned that growing isn't easy. It takes time, and there are many set backs. But you can always move forward if you choose to.
> *
> ...


Brutally honest and vulnerable

That was a beautiful post.


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## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

Don't know why I never posted in this.. I'll give this a shot.

I've always valued emotional control and resilience, it happens to also be a quality I'm very attracted to in a romantic partner. Someone who doesn't show his emotions naturally, and is reserved, closed off. I'm not sure why I'm so drawn to that, and why I think it's admirable. But when I'm surprised to see that someone has been through so much and is so deeply hurt but doesn't show one bit of it, I feel so much respect and admiration for them. Likewise, seeing someone complain constantly and expose their pain to the entire world makes me cringe. 

My compulsion with regards to that is a bit complex. I'm a very transparent person, in an almost childlike way. If I'm hurt, I can feel myself tearing up before I can even stop myself. And there's this harsh voice inside me that goes _Don't cry, don't cry, you're going to look like a fucking idiot, why can't you be more reserved_. Same for when I'm annoyed, bored, or even happy. Strong emotions are impossible for me to hide, and I have tried. I do dislike this about myself intensely, even though others may find it candid or endearing. At the same time, less intense/immediate emotions like melancholy are concealed behind an upbeat demeanor. Like I said, it's kind of complex.

Another thing I value so much is willpower, and perseverance. I _love _seeing that in others. Someone so set on that one goal that they don't ever give up, that they wake up, live, sleep in that single mindedness. People who can put aside their immediate needs because they have in mind something in the long-term. My compulsion is exactly the opposite of that. I have very little willpower. I was thinking the other day that I'm so lucky to find so much gratification in (relatively) harmless things like food, music, reading as opposed to alcohol, or drugs. I have such an addictive personality and find it so hard to stop the simplest things that bring me pleasure. I'm also a quitter, a lot of the time, when it comes to things that demand effort, and forgetting about immediate gratification. If it's difficult, I'll just shrug and drop it. 

I could go on and on, but I suspect the list is endless, as I value so many things I'm not. :laughing:


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## 6007 (Feb 12, 2010)

Very interesting questions and answers here, makes for good reading.


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