# What is Si?



## SuperfluousNinja (Jul 26, 2015)

DOGSOUP said:


> You don't really want to ask me since I couldn't give a very detailed answer anyway. As it was described (probably on the first page of this thread) by strong Si-users, it's about subjective impressions of sensation -- sensitivity to flavor, nuanced sensory preferences... Reading through this thread I'm beginning to think of it as _taste_ in short.


What you described sounds like Fi. Fi is the function involved with personal tastes and preferences.


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## DOGSOUP (Jan 29, 2016)

SuperfluousNinja said:


> What you described sounds like Fi. Fi is the function involved with personal tastes and preferences.


Well, we're talking about sensing here, not feeling.


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## Blue Ribbon (Sep 4, 2016)

SuperfluousNinja said:


> Well then, since you have dismantled my entire concept of what Si is, can you tell me what it REALLY is? If it's not about upholding traditions and isn't about a preference for taking actions that are based on your previous experience, then what the hell is it?!


It's not memory. It's not traditionalism. It's more like... 

Things I experience aren't exactly what they are. Like Se has a direct relationship to the external world. But Si doesn't. For an Se user, sensation is objective. Something is good or it's bad kind of but for an Si user that feeling is entirely subjective. Si users are acutely aware of what feels good to them or what they like. It has very little to do with memory. Of course if I like something, I'll remember I liked it last time but that memory is the same as that of every type. I guess the stereotype of upholding traditions comes from the fact that if I like something, I'm unlikely to change it.


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## sprinkle (Feb 10, 2017)

@SuperfluousNinja

That's not Si. Let's not blame anyone who is macho, religious, bigot as an Si person. I have seen a person a Fi male have those characteristics as what you've described. It's wouldn't be fair to call ALL Fi people like that either.

I've explained what Si is a few post above.


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## Glenda Gnome Starr (May 12, 2011)

That's what my evil inferior Ni does to me.



Wiz said:


> I guess (bad) Si is the one convincing me that my headache is a brain tumour.


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## Glenda Gnome Starr (May 12, 2011)

Thank you for this explanation. It's very helpful because, as someone with dominant Se, I truly didn't understand what Si feels like.



Blue Ribbon said:


> It's not memory. It's not traditionalism. It's more like...
> 
> Things I experience aren't exactly what they are. Like Se has a direct relationship to the external world. But Si doesn't. For an Se user, sensation is objective. Something is good or it's bad kind of but for an Si user that feeling is entirely subjective. Si users are acutely aware of what feels good to them or what they like. It has very little to do with memory. Of course if I like something, I'll remember I liked it last time but that memory is the same as that of every type. I guess the stereotype of upholding traditions comes from the fact that if I like something, I'm unlikely to change it.


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## Glenda Gnome Starr (May 12, 2011)

Si is a shadow function for us, so it's unlikely that either one of us is using it much. I just read that we tend to use shadow functions more when we're under stress.



SuperfluousNinja said:


> Can someone describe how "traditional" this function is?
> 
> I suspect that I use Si quite a bit, but only in the sense that I use the past as a point of reference a lot.
> 
> ...


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## SuperfluousNinja (Jul 26, 2015)

Garden Gnome said:


> Si is a shadow function for us, so it's unlikely that either one of us is using it much. I just read that we tend to use shadow functions more when we're under stress.


Whatever, mafia scum!


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## Glenda Gnome Starr (May 12, 2011)

LOL, the name is Little Scum Fairy. Please use the correct title, thank you.



SuperfluousNinja said:


> Whatever, mafia scum!


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## SuperfluousNinja (Jul 26, 2015)

sprinkle said:


> @SuperfluousNinja
> 
> That's not Si. Let's not blame anyone who is macho, religious, bigot as an Si person. I have seen a person a Fi male have those characteristics as what you've described. It's wouldn't be fair to call ALL Fi people like that either.
> 
> I've explained what Si is a few post above.


Is it macho to call others "bro" or "man"? Maybe it's just the term they are comfortable with? Nor did I mean to imply that religious people are in the wrong.

Sure you gave a couple sentences describing an entire function, but it's still not making sense to me. You're talking "impressions", and that's supposed to be intuition over sensing. Intuition is the more abstract, after-the-gist type (impressions), whereas SENSING is supposed to be more concrete and literal, more likely to see and remember things exactly as they are.

Si: This warm spring breeze reminds me of playing outside as a kid. I love this!
Se: This warm spring breeze feels so good and refreshing. I love this!

This is supposed to be the fundamental difference between the two.


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## SuperfluousNinja (Jul 26, 2015)

Garden Gnome said:


> LOL, the name is Little Scum Fairy. Please use the correct title, thank you.


That would validate Kaboomz's actions, and I will do nothing of the sort!

By the way, this thing I'm doing is also Si, I suspect. Allowing events from the past to influence my emotions / decision making in the present, rather than treating my loss to the mafia as water under the bridge and moving on. UNHEALTHY use of Si, obviously, but still Si use nonetheless.


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## Glenda Gnome Starr (May 12, 2011)

Hey, great description of shadow Si. We don't do Si naturally, so it's always going to come across as negative and somewhat toxic. Focus on your Se for a moment. What is good about your world today? For me, it's the purple crocuses that I saw in my garden. Also, I saw a duck paddling in the puddles in my back yard. That was such a goofy sight that it made me laugh and attempt to take its picture.



SuperfluousNinja said:


> That would validate Kaboomz's actions, and I will do nothing of the sort!
> 
> By the way, this thing I'm doing is also Si, I suspect. Allowing events from the past to influence my emotions / decision making in the present, rather than treating my loss to the mafia as water under the bridge and moving on. UNHEALTHY use of Si, obviously, but still Si use nonetheless.


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## sprinkle (Feb 10, 2017)

SuperfluousNinja said:


> You're talking "impressions", and that's supposed to be intuition over sensing. Intuition is the more abstract, after-the-gist type (impressions), whereas SENSING is supposed to be more concrete and literal, more likely to see and remember things exactly as they are.


You are using your Ni trying to figure out what I am trying to say, which is incorrect. Intuition is NOT imprints. I said IMPRINTS, not IMPRESSION. Reread what I said. The terms are not synonymous. Ni is pattern recognition, and that's not what I mean by being imprinted on. There are many post here talking about the difference between Ni and Ne. Ni is about focus. Don't pigeonhole my definition by defining how you see things in a narrow scope.

Think of imprint like a duck imprinting on a human being.


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## SuperfluousNinja (Jul 26, 2015)

sprinkle said:


> You are using your Ni trying to figure out what I am trying to say, which is incorrect. Intuition is NOT imprints. I said IMPRINTS, not IMPRESSION. Reread what I said. The terms are not synonymous. Ni is pattern recognition, and that's not what I mean by being imprinted on. There are many post here talking about the difference between Ni and Ne. Ni is about focus. Don't pigeonhole my definition by defining how you see things in a narrow scope.
> 
> Think of imprint like a duck imprinting on a human being.


I'm not trying to "pigeonhole" anything; I'm just after a solution. Just FYI, I do a thing where I lay out my best guess at an answer and present it with confidence, knowing that if it's right, I will get no response, and if it's wrong, there is always someone out there who takes great umbrage to my comment and corrects me. Either way, I am efficiently delivered the correct answer, and that's all I care about  (that's either Te or my own creative Ti method. Haven't figured it out yet)

So you say it is about imprints. Can you give an example? Here's what I assume you might mean: you go to the carnival and buy a cone of some really funky ice cream. It turns out to be super gross and you throw it away. In the future, when you go back to either that carnival or ANY carnival, you refuse to buy any food at all because your previous experience left you with a general imprint that carnival food is gross.

Accurate?


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## sprinkle (Feb 10, 2017)

@SuperfluousNinja

There is an innate competitiveness in your way to lock down on an answer in defining Si. Explaining Si is actually a bit more nebulous. 

If you ask me, would I go back to the same carnival if I had diarrhea, I would say possibly. Would I go to any carnival? Possibly. Would I go back to the same ice cream vendor? HELL NO. Would I go to a different ice cream vendor? Possibly. Is this Si? Not really. I wouldn't go back because of sanitation purposes. 

So how does imprinting works? Maybe this picture would help explain how Si knows whether or not it would accept or reject something? 










Or, you can think of it like the body's natural response to figure out whether or not it is allergic to something. The body is the first line of defense noticing a foreign object, so it rejects it. But if the body recognizes the food as safe, the person has no allergic reaction.

Check this video out: Note the body knows before the brain that a food substance is dangerous.


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## SuperfluousNinja (Jul 26, 2015)

@sprinkle

What function has an innate desire to lock down answers? Even if in a competitive way? I'm not trying to work you up; I'm asking these questions to help figure myself out. I'm at a major crossroads in my life and am of the belief that accurate personality typing can help me with that. Maybe that's not true, but it's the best I've got right now.

I see the holes, but I can't help but wonder what created those holes?? Is this a block of tastes? How you'd like to arrange things? At times you prefer a circle, and you know not to try forcing in a square when you do? (Maybe a real world parallel is that when you had a rough week, you know you just want to sleep instead of have a glass of wine, but you might like a glass of wine when you have a great week?)

You might not like my efforts to define Si, but Si is a real function that people actually use and actually exists and thus ought to be explainable in tangible ways.


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## sprinkle (Feb 10, 2017)

@SuperfluousNinja

In terms of being impatient, I think you might have a need to reach a destination as quickly as possible. 
Maybe you feel you need to accomplish something to feel good. And being slow at it makes you feel bad? Are you secretly sabotaging people because you are competitive? Do you compare yourself to other people a lot? I don't know what function it is. You're just negative and covert about it. 

Let's not start pointing fingers please. I don't do well being guilt tripped or framed to have feelings that I don't have. I don't have anything against people trying to learn. Since I have Si, I figure I could help explain what it is. Like right now, you are constant playing offense. I feel a bit exhausted defending myself how I am actually not against you trying to figure out what Si is.

What part of my explanation do you need more clarification? You're not willing to ask questions. Think of Si as the body with receptor sites. The blocks are tangible things, like taste, smell, sound, etc. Every Si body is different, so receptor sites are different. Every Si person will have different imprint, so their reaction to something can be completely different. If the shapes matches, a whole bunch of cascading effects can happen. Sort of like how turtles just know what to do after they hatch to go to the sea. 

Think of Si as a system. It can only be described not defined. You're trying to simplify something without even understanding how it works.


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## SuperfluousNinja (Jul 26, 2015)

sprinkle said:


> @SuperfluousNinja
> 
> So, this is just from our short interaction. I've noticed you make a lot of assumptions, so that's where the communication gap is. It's a bit exhausting to correct mistakes, but I understand your effort. Like right now, I feel a bit exhausted defending myself how I am actually not against you trying to figure out what Si is.
> 
> ...


It's just that I've been studying this for a really long time, and you're the first to say that Si actually has nothing to do with tradition, nostalgia, or an increased likelihood to act based on previous experience, and I'd like to figure out how you came to this viewpoint, especially since you are quite convinced you are right (and I view that as an even greater motivation to pick your brain. That is NOT a judgment on the validity of your views).

What you are saying just sounds SO MUCH like Fi to me. Either that, or your definition of Si just sounds so generic and applicable to everyone. Who doesn't have preferences on taste, smell, and sound? Everyone likes certain foods and hates others. Same with smells. Some people hate the sound of crickets, and I LOVE the sound. The simple fact that I have preferences isn't enough to say that I lead with Si since I don't see what's unique about merely having preferences.

Now, if we dug into WHY I have these preferences, that's a more interesting and telling discussion. I love the sound of crickets because it does two things: it reminds me of my childhood in my small hometown (I live in a big city now and don't hear them anymore), and it just helps me feel connected to nature. These are quite different from just straight-up liking the sound without need for explanation (which, I suspect, is an Fi thing). And so I define Si as having a preference for something simply because it ties into something we already know we love. To me, that's a more complete and accurate definition of Si.


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## sprinkle (Feb 10, 2017)

@SuperfluousNinja

I don't think anything I said touched on emotion. In terms of tradition, what's your definition? I didn't notice you gave any concrete definitions on the functions. Maybe you should tell us what exactly do you think Si is and how you are defining your Fi to be similar to Si.

In terms of can anyone access Si? If you have Si in one of your eight functions, why wouldn't you? It's just not your preference, but it's not unusable. It's just NOT your primary function. 

Here's a few fact about me:
- I don't celebrate holidays or birthday that much. They aren't important. 
- I don't have a memory box of goodies. My home isn't a museum.
- I can be a creature of habit, but many people are. Can I change a habit, sure I can.

I do have a keen sense in determining what is quality. I guess quality just fits into the shape of what makes me happy perfectly. 

I actually think a lot of people mistake ISFPs as ISTJs. This is why ISTJs get stereotyped and gets blamed for everything. It's because the ISTJ profile is GENERIC. People like you are playing off these stereotype with ignorance.


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## SuperfluousNinja (Jul 26, 2015)

sprinkle said:


> @SuperfluousNinja
> 
> I don't think anything I said touched on emotion. In terms of tradition, what's your definition? I didn't notice you give anything concrete on defining anything. Maybe you should tell us what exactly do you think Si is and how you are defining your Fi to be similar to Si.
> 
> ...


Tradition is phrases like:
- you should make sure you get married because your relatives who got married lived to 100 and the single ones drank themselves to death.
- your ancestors found so much life meaning through music, so I'll make sure you play an instrument or join a choir, even if you express disinterest in it, because it HAS to work for you if it worked for so many of your own relatives.
- my next car will be a Buick. I don't care if studies show that other cars are more dependable; I've driven Buicks all my life and I know they work.
- I will wear a suit to this function. Last time I went, everyone else was in a suit, and I just wore a button-up with no tie and coat and I was MORTIFIED!! I will NEVER make that mistake again.

As for your definition of Si, I can't think of a single instance when I WOULDN'T exercise it. You say it's about your own personal preferences, right? Well let's say I have two meal options: a salad, or a steak. I love steak and avoid salad whenever possible. Are you saying that if I wasn't an Si user, I'd sometimes pick salad? It's not nearly descriptive enough to say that Si is just using personal preferences since I see humans as using their personal preferences 100% of the time, REGARDLESS of their personality. There has to be something you're missing.


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## SuperfluousNinja (Jul 26, 2015)

sprinkle said:


> As for your definition:
> 
> "Traditions are the "past experience" that Si has "come to know and rely on".
> 
> It's funny how the definition has the term Si in it that needs to be defined as well. Sigh. This Drench guy should write horoscopes.


For what it's worth, these tidbits of quote that you and I are referencing here are written by a PerC user named ae1905 and was quoted by Niss. Actually has nothing to do with Dr. Drenth (not Drench).

Niss's referenced quote, as well as Dr. Drenth's consensus, both draw the conclusion that Si is most comfortable in engaging in things that it has learned from previous experience that it likes / draws comfort from / whatever wording you prefer for a positive emotional experience.

Do you agree with this characterization of Si?


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## SuperfluousNinja (Jul 26, 2015)

sprinkle said:


> @SuperfluousNinja
> 
> Can you let me know if he said ISTJs "MUST" have traditions and "MUST" be religious?


He said at the start of the book that nobody "must" do any of these things. But they most certainly have "preferences".

Religion is a subset of tradition. So I would say that Si users don't necessarily need to follow RELIGION, but I do think Si users have to follow "tradition" to some degree.


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## sprinkle (Feb 10, 2017)

The statement is funny because it says that if you don't see anything wrong with something, don't fix it. True.

But I find there's a lot of things wrong, so I am constantly fixing things. 

Oh, is the Drench guy still alive? Maybe he should rewrite it to make it more modern.


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## sprinkle (Feb 10, 2017)

If he did say I MUST HAVE A TRADITION.

I have a tradition of throwing things out. I don't like a lot of stuff. So I don't have a lot of memorabilia and stuff.


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## SuperfluousNinja (Jul 26, 2015)

sprinkle said:


> The statement is funny because it says that if you don't see anything wrong with something, don't fix it. True.
> 
> But I find there's a lot of things wrong, so I am constantly fixing things.
> 
> Oh, is the Drench guy still alive? Maybe he should rewrite it to make it more modern.


Rewrite what? You haven't convinced me that you're referring to Dr. Drenth's quote and not ae1905's quote.


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## sprinkle (Feb 10, 2017)

@SuperfluousNinja 

Oh, so all along you just want me to convince you. This post is a trap then. If I knew that was your objective, I should have just ignored you. You masked this topic as a question soliciting knowledge of what people think Si is. LIESSSSSSSS!!!!!

I have no interest in imposing my worldview or knowledge onto others. Take what you need, toss what doesn't work. You make people go on defenses a lot. It's really draining. BYE!


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## SuperfluousNinja (Jul 26, 2015)

sprinkle said:


> @SuperfluousNinja
> 
> Oh, so all along you just want me to convince you. If I knew that was your objective, I should have just ignored you. You masked this topic as a question soliciting knowledge of what people think SI is. LIESSSSSSSS!!!!!
> 
> I have no interest in imposing my worldview or knowledge onto others. Take what you need, toss what doesn't work. You make people go on defenses a lot. It's really draining. BYE!


Alright. I don't really understand your strong reaction here, and going back and re-reading everything I wrote, I see plenty of care taken to focus entirely on the subject matter and not be personal about anything. I am planning to move forward with the belief that Si is based heavily on past experiences and that knowing your preferences comes from your memory of having tried these things before and sorting out what you do and do not like. This is your last chance to stop me, though what I read from both Niss's quote and from Dr. Drenth have fully validated this interpretation of Si!


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## sprinkle (Feb 10, 2017)

@SuperfluousNinja

You are the one who has to live with your belief system. Who am I to say if you are right or wrong.


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## SuperfluousNinja (Jul 26, 2015)

sprinkle said:


> @SuperfluousNinja
> 
> You are the one who has to live with your belief system. Who am I to say if you are right or wrong.


Then I'll happily live with the belief that Si determines its preferences based primarily on its past experiences.

Seems like a pretty easy thing to live with, especially compared to my other burden of tinnitus.


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## sprinkle (Feb 10, 2017)

SuperfluousNinja said:


> Then I'll happily live with the belief that Si determines its preferences based primarily on its past experiences.
> 
> Seems like a pretty easy thing to live with, especially compared to my other burden of tinnitus.



Ok, just make sure you don't turn into a bigot. =) You know who gets blamed for it.


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## Blue Ribbon (Sep 4, 2016)

SuperfluousNinja said:


> Then I'll happily live with the belief that Si determines its preferences based primarily on its past experiences.
> 
> Seems like a pretty easy thing to live with, especially compared to my other burden of tinnitus.


No Si is a perceiving function. Not a judging function. Si users don't judge good or bad based on something they experiences. Determining preferences is a judging trait because it requires you to judge information. Now do you understand?


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## JennyJukes (Jun 29, 2012)

SuperfluousNinja said:


> - you should make sure you get married because your relatives who got married lived to 100 and the single ones drank themselves to death.


all my relatives marriages failed. i'm still getting married.



> - your ancestors found so much life meaning through music, so I'll make sure you play an instrument or join a choir, even if you express disinterest in it, because it HAS to work for you if it worked for so many of your own relatives.


?????????? uh no. i don't care about what my relatives did and didn't do. i am my own person.



> - my next car will be a Buick. I don't care if studies show that other cars are more dependable; I've driven Buicks all my life and I know they work.


nope. i know nothing about cars so i'm more likely to listen to studies/other people's opinions. but if a car was great for me i don't see why i should change it unless there's something guaranteed to work better in a different car.




> - I will wear a suit to this function. Last time I went, everyone else was in a suit, and I just wore a button-up with no tie and coat and I was MORTIFIED!! I will NEVER make that mistake again.


i don't get it...? i don't think i'd be mortified just be like oops! better make more of an effort next time.

all of these are totally extreme examples, not relevant to the majority of Si users in the slightest.


this was my post on it : 




JennyJukes said:


> really hard for me to explain. for me it occurs in many ways:
> 
> 1) you give me a new concept/theory/information. i look at what i already know, may be something unrelated but helps me understand, and i analyze the new information/concept based on what i already know.
> example: someone talking to me about creating h20 and if it's different to natural h20. me, not knowing a single thing about chemistry, remember about the smallpox virus and how it was eradicated but part of the virus that was being researched seeped through airvents, connected with a photographers chemicals = gave her small pox. so i can use my knowledge of that to say "there may be external circumstances which can change the outcome when creating h20 in a lab". might not be correct but that's based on my limited understanding of the topic.
> ...


as you can see, rarely about tradition. only traditional things i do really is want a house/family/job (most people do??) and i used to read harry potter ever summer because it was nostalgic for me and i _liked _​it not because i felt like i needed to do it every summer or i'd die. it's not so much tradition as it is routine, like i usually do the same things in the same order on the same day, but i _can _change if i want to. you have to remember Si interacts with other functions.


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## Cobble (Dec 6, 2016)

Why can't we discuss about Si without getting in a "right / wrong discussion", resorting to insult, and dismissing the other people opinions because of their types/mistypes/biggotery/ignorance/whatsoever ? Wouldn't it be better if we discussed more in a "You see it like this. Fine. I personally see it like that." tone ? With respect of the vision, opinion, experiences, way of handing ideas and personality of each people ?

I wish we could discuss peacefully, trying to add information altogether instead of going on each other throats. I'm happy to read so many opinions on the matter, it's cool to see how people define Si in so many different ways because it enriches my vision of Si. And I went in this forum so that we can share ideas, so that's perfect ! But I'm feeling a bit sad about the way we discuss on this thread.

(Sorry if I'm going a little off topic here, I was feeling a little depressed/angry/sad/bitter while reading/discussing on this thread. So I think I needed to express that. I'm okay with disagreement, it's pretty cool. But from my point of view, if we could respect/show respect to each other equally even with divergent opinions on the matter, that would be even cooler. )

(But of course, if you think it's cool to get in "Right/Wrong discussions" / you think that the tone of this thead is pretty cool, you can continue. Maybe I'm the only one feeling this way here.)


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## niss (Apr 25, 2010)

SuperfluousNinja said:


> For what it's worth, these tidbits of quote that you and I are referencing here are written by a PerC user named ae1905 and was quoted by Niss. Actually has nothing to do with Dr. Drenth (not Drench).
> 
> Niss's referenced quote, as well as Dr. Drenth's consensus, both draw the conclusion that Si is most comfortable in engaging in things that it has learned from previous experience that it likes / draws comfort from / whatever wording you prefer for a positive emotional experience.
> 
> Do you agree with this characterization of Si?


The problem, as I see it, is that you seem to partially grasp the meaning of the quote I posted. You seem to have equated Si with societal traditions and memory. This is not the case. Si seeks stability - a subjective stability to be sure, but stability nonetheless. 

Since it is subjective, the stability will be relative to the individual. Just as with other types, some will be religious, some won't be...some will be traditionalists and some won't be...and so on.

If you wish to truly understand MBTI, you must divorce yourself from thinking in terms of cognition based on behaviors, and instead focus on the motivations for those actions. When you understand the "why" or "why not," then you can best determine type.

FWIW, ae1905 struggled with Si for quite a while. It wasn't until he shifted from a behavior based understanding to a motive based understanding that he was able to write the post I quoted. 

HTH


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## SuperfluousNinja (Jul 26, 2015)

I think, perhaps, that my push for answers rubbed a lot of people the wrong way, and I regret that. I really just wanted to get to the truth and did my absolute best to stick to the subject matter and leave personal feelings out of this. I certainly didn't dismiss anyone's opinion, especially because of any of their personality traits (just because I characterize someone as a different personality type doesn't mean I form any positive or negative opinion of them as a result). I understand how people view my approach as being insulting or aggressive, but that's just Te, and the important thing to remember about Te is that its primary motivation is to get to the truth by any means necessary. And lots of people REALLY don't like Te, and I can certainly see why. All I can do is use it and focus on the facts as much as possible and hope people don't get too worked up in the process, lol.


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## sprinkle (Feb 10, 2017)

Not all Te people act like that. You have a bad habit of blaming people. As I said, you are being competitive against others instead of competing against yourself.


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## SuperfluousNinja (Jul 26, 2015)

Blue Ribbon said:


> No Si is a perceiving function. Not a judging function. Si users don't judge good or bad based on something they experiences. Determining preferences is a judging trait because it requires you to judge information. Now do you understand?





DOGSOUP said:


> You don't really want to ask me since I couldn't give a very detailed answer anyway. As it was described (probably on the first page of this thread) by strong Si-users, it's about subjective impressions of sensation -- sensitivity to flavor, nuanced sensory preferences... Reading through this thread I'm beginning to think of it as _taste_ in short.


I think these two quotes contradict each other. To develop taste, you'd need to form judgments, but the first poster here is saying that Si is perception and shouldn't derive any judgments like "taste".

Who is right?


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## DOGSOUP (Jan 29, 2016)

SuperfluousNinja said:


> I think these two quotes contradict each other. To develop taste, you'd need to form judgments, but the first poster here is saying that Si is perception and shouldn't derive any judgments like "taste".
> 
> Who is right?


I meant taste more in a sensation kinda way, not as a feeling judgement/choice as you apparently interpreted it as.


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## SuperfluousNinja (Jul 26, 2015)

DOGSOUP said:


> I meant taste more in a sensation kinda way, not as a feeling judgement/choice as you apparently interpreted it as.


So how do feelers arrive at their tastes, and how do Si users arrive at theirs? Sure, they are different kinds of tastes, but this question ought to get to the heart of each user's motivations. And that's what this is all about: the motivation. The "why".


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## DOGSOUP (Jan 29, 2016)

SuperfluousNinja said:


> So how do feelers arrive at their tastes, and how do Si users arrive at theirs? Sure, they are different kinds of tastes, but this question ought to get to the heart of each user's motivations. And that's what this is all about: the motivation. The "why".


Feeling would estimate the value of the object/thing/whatever, or focus on how they are subjectively affected by it. For example, being _moved_ by art; it has power to influence the individual but also others, and people form a feeling connection or relation to it. The focus may be less in what is observable, and be more about the feeling the thing evokes. Could be total indifference too; as long as feeling organizes the experience somehow.

Then again, impression of "comfort" for example, mentioned by more than one Si-users in this thread, is purely subjective and in the head of the perceiver - it's still something that can be sensed though. And I assume it can be about any sensation the person can appreciate, that has the subjectively "right flavor" to it. But it's not thought-of as a judgement, whereas feeling is. Sensing experience is not organized... it's just experienced.


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## sprinkle (Feb 10, 2017)

@Fried Eggz

I was meaning to look into socionics. Just took the test. Thanks!


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## ENFPurpleKitti (Mar 20, 2017)

@Fried Eggz



> But why do you describe Si as traditional at all? Don't you see that it's often offensive to Si types?


Again, that's not my intention. I was simply envisioning a scenario about tradition and how it might *relate to* or manifest in Si. Remember I prefaced my first post regarding tradition with the words "I'm guessing." I never said Si is a function that is defined by tradition; rather, I was responding to a previous comment where @how beautiful quoted someone else on the theory (or hypothesis) that Si correlates with tradition, as well as some of the back-and-forth comments about tradition and routine. That entire post I wrote was hypothetical and did not seek to define absolutes, except to clarify the difference between tradition and routine.

In my follow-up post I apologized and specified that it was not my intention to imply the issues you brought up. I then explicitly stated, "SJs will choose or reject whatever traditions they come across/ think about, *it isn't in any way imposed on them by their own function.*" 

Plenty of people are interested in tradition. I described my own thoughts on the matter from my point of view as a referencing/ comparative point (about the sheep), seeing as Si is in my stack, but opposes my Ne. 

I would, however like to point out that there are many sources which describe SJs as often being traditional, one of which @how beautiful pointed out. Here are a few other sources I've found:


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https://mypersonality.info/personality-types/sj-temperament/
"ESTJs trust facts and experiences more than theories. They are decisive, loyal, tradition observing individuals.*"

"ESFJs are responsible, dutiful, observe traditions and follow rules.*"

"ISTJs are responsible, loyal and hard working. They have an acute sense of right and wrong and work hard at preserving established norms and traditions.*"

"ISFJs are traditional, loyal, quiet and kind."

The Four Personality Temperaments
"[ESTJs] honor traditions and laws, and have a clear set of standards and beliefs.*"

"ISTJs tend to believe in laws and traditions, and expect the same from others.*"

"[ESFJs are] traditional, and prefer to do things in the established way, rather than venturing into unchartered territory.*"

"[ISFJs] value security and kindness, and respect traditions and laws."

Keirsey Temperament Website - Portrait of the Guardian® (SJ)
"All*Guardians*share the following core characteristics:

Guardians tend to be dutiful, cautious, humble, and focused on credentials and traditions."

ISTJ Introverted Sensing Thinking Judging
"Threats to time-honored traditions or established organizations (e.g., a "run" on the bank) are the undoing of SJs, and are to be fought at all costs."




I could go on, but you get the point. 

*ARE* SJs traditionalists? Maybe a lot of them are. Many of these authors and experts seem to believe so, that tradition is a big part of who they are, one of their key values. The fact that Jung didn't happen to mention it does not necessarily mean that they aren't. Many people since Jung have expanded on his works.

As for the idea that associating tradition with Si is offensive, I get the feeling that it wouldn't actually ruffle too many SJ feathers. Maybe, and if there are some who don't identify with it are tired of hearing it... but the word "tradition" doesn't come with negative connotations, as words like "arrogant", "flaky", "stubborn," "boring", "bigot", "insensitive", etc. which some members here and elsewhere used to describe various types. 

I've read lots and lots of information about NFs/ ENFPs that don't resonate with me. Things like being sexually promiscuous or experimenting with sex with multiple partners (my husband and I were both virgins when we got married, no other sexual relationships have occurred), being more likely liberals (I'm conservative), like to be/ make great leaders (meh), try to avoid conflict (I believe conflict isn't inherently bad and that a lot can be learned in the process; I prefer to approach conflict in a constructive way), etc. I don't have a personal problem with these descriptions, as I understand they are simply generalizations. They are not all-encompassing, they are not descriptions *of me*. If someone spoke to me and said I lived up to any of those traits I just mentioned (and especially after explaining I don't), and said it's because I'm ENFP, THAT is where it crosses into offensive stereotyping.


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## Valtire (Jan 1, 2014)

PurpleKitti said:


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You are citing random websites. Those are not reliable sources as they can be written by anyone. I could cite a random website written by me and not surprisingly it would have my opinions on it. Should you wish to debate with facts you need to consider their quality. Citations should always be written by a certified professional (to prove their competence) - typically a book.

David Keirsey said that SJs are traditional but he disavowed cognitive functions altogether. These SJ stereotypes are not relevant in a discussion about Si - they're just not the same theory at all. It makes a complete mockery out of Jung's ideas. It's certainly no expansion on them.


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## ENFPurpleKitti (Mar 20, 2017)

Valid points.

I'm still not trying to *prove* that Si is defined by tradition, as I said I was envisioning the possibilities of how they could connect or manifest.


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## Librarian (Jun 14, 2016)

Be warned, I'm taking a more "symbolic" approach to Si.

_Si is..._

-The feeling that tells you that someday, this day is gonna make a hilarious story.

-An impressionistic painting

-Your favorite book that you've read over and over and you proudly know it by heart

-The memory you recall in detail, but for the life of you can't remember why it was so memorable in the first place. 

-The area of your house you keep in perfect order, no little thing ignored

-The satisfaction of knowing that the world can take everything you own but will never take away all you have lived through.

-The moment that's says everything will work out because you've survived the impossible before.

-A work of art you can't truly appreciate until you get close enough to see it's intricacies.

-A snowflake that seems like every other snowflake but you know is a bit different, even though invisible to the eye.

-That special place you've visited for years, the one that must change whether it wants to or not but will never lose the thing that makes it so wonderful to you.

-A subject of interest you know so well you could go into your mind and pull out the file among hundreds you need without even thinking of it. 

-The need to be a perfectionist and the paradox of wanting to be one for sake of efficiency, but doesn't want to be one because that line of thinking has failed you and others so often before.

-Knowing that the past helped shape who you are but that ultimately, it's up to you to decide what to with it. After all, the present will soon and forever be the past, so make it a past your proud to look back on.


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## Librarylady (Mar 11, 2017)

PurpleKitti said:


> @Fried Eggz
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Tbh, I think it also depends how we're defining "traditional". In my case, I like to follow what I grew up with and I don't really enjoy change all that much. My core values started at home- what I was raised with.

But if traditional means that I hold conservative/republican views, then I'm not traditional at all whatsoever. Unfortunately, some people define it that way when it really should just refer to what the person did in their past.


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## Mammon (Jul 12, 2012)

All those failplanations of Si. Kekova.


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## atamagasuita (May 15, 2016)

It's yes in Spanish. Ikr. XD hihihihihi


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## VagrantFarce (Jul 31, 2015)

Grounded, no-nonsense, concerned, reassuring, boring, reliable, predictable, comfortable


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