# Just Trying the Questions Out. For Science.



## Spades (Aug 31, 2011)

Jawz said:


> Spades --- have you ever considered 739 as your tritype?
> 
> Just curious and tossing out a possibility.
> 
> ...



I have a secret. That's my 2nd choice for tritype. The thing is, the 748 archetype fits much, much better. Almost ridiculously so. 739 is far too adaptable and not stubborn/self-interested enough, 738 is far too aggressive, and 749 is far too passive. I really appreciate this input though.

*Edit*: I was very 3-ish (or any of the aggressive types) as a child. The issue I had (and still have very much) is when people only appreciate me for my accomplishments and not my inner personality and insight. I find it very insulting. I'm still highly competitive, but I see it more as an opportunity to crush my opponents as opposed to showing my worth.


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## Inguz (Mar 10, 2012)

Spades said:


> Interesting. I have no idea where you are going with this but might as well answer honestly. I think it's something I probably notice unconsciously. I don't really pick up on physical cues as much as I pick up on "vibes" which often end up correct.


Hm... Well, please bear with me, I don't know you (yet anyway). Your points about you in childhood just said autism to me. Just to sum up shortly: Ordering things in size and color since small age, late language development if I understand it correctly, very noticeable frustration with plans not following through, you say that you need schedules, you seem to need to actively think about how something relates to you, having to learn to think in words, and I quote you on this: "hyperfocus". Your intellect is unquestionably very sharp, yet most seems to see ENFP in you. Now don't take this as an insult or personal attack, but I think that checking out Asperger Syndrome and Autism could be worthwhile for you. Sadly females seems to more often go undiagnosed than males when it comes to both ADHD and Autism. That's what I see any way.


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## Spades (Aug 31, 2011)

Inguz said:


> Now don't take this as an insult or personal attack, but I think that checking out Asperger Syndrome and Autism could be worthwhile for you. Sadly females seems to more often go undiagnosed than males when it comes to both ADHD and Autism. That's what I see any way.


No no, this might just be the most useful thing to come out of my Type Me threads. It might explain... *a LOT* of my life. I had what I considered "OCD tendencies" but I never quite fit the OCD or OCPD descriptions. I might have even had anti-social tendencies and several other issues, most of which are completely resolved! I've felt completely misunderstood my whole life, to the point I wondered if I was a mutant of sorts =P But... I've been ridiculously healthy and awesome for the past 5 years ^_^

I should definitely look this up.


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## Spades (Aug 31, 2011)

Dark Romantic said:


> @_Spades_: Interesting... I will need some time to process it, though, since it was quite a bit of info.


If it helps, I do these things but I don't particularly like to (except for the joy I feel when I *finish* something!). I sometimes joke around that I don't like my Te because it prevents me from being as free as I want to. I've trained myself for years to be more flexible, and it's helped. I'm also super efficient, and that comes in handy with things like packing light, doing school work, etc, etc.


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## Inguz (Mar 10, 2012)

Spades said:


> No no, this might just be the most useful thing to come out of my Type Me threads. It might explain... *a LOT* of my life. I had what I considered "OCD tendencies" but I never quite fit the OCD or OCPD descriptions. I might have even had anti-social tendencies and several other issues, most of which are completely resolved! I've felt completely misunderstood my whole life, to the point I wondered if I was a mutant of sorts =P But... I've been ridiculously healthy and awesome for the past 5 years ^_^
> 
> I should definitely look this up.


You should, because everything fits perfectly. Though I hope that we still will see you around here and you don't hyperfocus on autism the next year or so! I feel very happy to be able to help lol.


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## SilentScream (Mar 31, 2011)

Spades said:


> *Edit*: I was very 3-ish (or any of the aggressive types) as a child. The issue I had (and still have very much) is when people only appreciate me for my accomplishments and not my inner personality and insight. I find it very insulting. I'm still highly competitive, but I see it more as an opportunity to crush my opponents as opposed to showing my worth.


3's decide what they want to be/feel validated for -- it's part of being a 3


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## Enfpleasantly (Mar 5, 2012)

@Spades, almost everything you have mentioned that makes you think against ENFP, I can relate to, except some of the social stuff and math. It's not that I struggled with math though, its that I wasn't interested in math. In regard to planning and organizing, I did mostly everything you mentioned. I personally feel it's the 6 wing of my 7, and my 1w2 perfectionism...actually 7 and 4 are also about perfectionism. I would literally direct my Sisters when playing pretend, telling them what to say and how to say it. I was very bossy and extremely selfish as a child as well. I don't see ENTP because I don't see Fe or Ti. I definitely see Ne, Fi and Te. ENFP's express their feeling through thinking which can make us seem like thinking types, keep that in mind. I have the source to that, but I'm on my phone, and it's a pain. Also, I hate schedules, but I need them in order to keep myself in line. I have to have structure or else I go off track. I don't enjoy it though...and you should see how I planned and carried out my kids birthday parties! I might despise planning some things, but if I'm planning something social, I actually enjoy it. My wedding, babies, parties, etc. I loved planning. 

And lastly, lists...do endless lists of goals and baby names count? As a kid and teen I made lists all the time. Mostly they were my hopes and dreams that I was exited to reach and I wanted to get them out and on paper so that I could see them and examine them. I think it was because it was too difficult for me to arrange them nicely in my head, so the vision was clouded. I wrote things out so I could process them. This brought me joy and I believe it was my Te showing my Fi that it was all good...hence, expressing feeling through thinking 

Sorry if this is full of typos, my phone is annoying to type on.

Edit: The source to the part about expressing feeling through thinking is in the phases of ENFP development article (specifically under the Fi description). Article can be found in ENFP forum under articles. I would link it if I wasn't on my phone.


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## Enfpleasantly (Mar 5, 2012)

Just thought of some more stuff on how I make lists and plan...when I was in college, we had class schedule books and program books, hardly anything was online, I loved going through the books and writing out my next semester's schedule and classes. I also liked to write out my future semesters so I could see each one and the year, anticipating graduating. 

I liked to make lists of bills to keep them straight. 

I research reviews and specs on almost everything I buy.

If I had a fitness goal, I wrote it all out including what I needed to do, how much, how long, etc...all Te, however it was simply Te that I used to expressing my Fi. I truly think this is why ENFP's can seem like Te doms. Oh and I also hate to be late! I was in total agreement to your answer to the car breaking down scenario. I think this feeling comes from not wanting to miss out on anything. I wouldn't want to have crappy seats, or maybe it selling out before we could get there. I get flustered very easily when I want to be somewhere. I rush and get all impatient with everything around me because I just wanna get there...the thing is, I am relatively on time to things, especially important stuff, but for most everyday stuff, I'm 5-15 mins late.

If you want more, I'm sure I can provide it...I think this is definitely where type descriptions can be really misleading. I probably don't sound ENFP to some, but I can't express to you enough how much I know I'm an ENFP.


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## Spades (Aug 31, 2011)

@_Enfpleasantly_

Reading your posts, especially the long paragraph of the 2nd one, I could see a lot of Type 7! Yet another reason Enneagram gets *deeper* into what drives behaviour. Now, it is possible my Si-Te behaviour could've been stress-driven, but I don't necessarily think so. Anyway, there is just too much to say and I want to enjoy my Saturday evening so I'm getting off PerC =)

Oh, I do see some truth in what you say about expressing feeling through thinking and vice versa. I've especially noticed this in F or T doms.


*P.S. Dark chocolate kicks all chocolate ass! 85% or higher only! None of that weak sugary shit!*


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## Paradigm (Feb 16, 2010)

Spades said:


> *P.S. Dark chocolate kicks all chocolate ass! 85% or higher only! None of that weak sugary shit!*


Clearly we are both abnormal xNTJs due to our being in the 6w7/7w6 (self-pres, no less) space. How do I know this? _We both have no sweet teeth._ How do people tolerate milk chocolate? It's so creamy and sweet and full of happiness... Gross.

Well, got that cleared up.

No, but seriously, I don't really have much proof that you're xNTJ 7w6 besides just saying that it's my best guess. Sorry, I know it's annoying. Just remember that, stereotypically, 7s are all ExxPs... No one really "knows" what an xNTJ 7w6 looks like.


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## Adriana (Aug 6, 2011)

I don't see any obvious Ne there, and I don't think you lead with a judging function either and that is from your answers to questions 1-6. So I think you are a Ni-dom chameleon thingamy.

Then I read the rest of what is being discussed and I disagree even more with everyone who says you use Ne.

Actually, I think you should ignore everything that is being said, including (paradoxically) my own advice. I once started a thread like this and people said I was ENTP. (For the record, the last time I posted something in the ENTP board people spotted my non-ENTPness before they even saw avatar and type indication.) Things like "Ne looks at things from multiple angles, not Ni" are really useless, especially because you read otherwise from MBTI scolars. I know people who stick to their own opinion whatever happens, it annoys me to no end. This tells me I find those people excruciatingly annoying but that doesn't tell me my MBTI, nor theirs. Rationally you should know nothing is set in stone.


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## Jewl (Feb 28, 2012)

@Spades, the Enneagram may go "deeper" depending on what the word means. What I like about cognitive functions is that they go "deep" in that they show you how you judge and perceive. That, to me, is absolutely fascinating. So I wouldn't say it's not "deep". I actually don't like the Enneagram as much, even though I think it ought to be appreciated. Just a little tidbit there.  

Anyways, I see why you think you say you're not ENFP. While you probably aren't ENFP, those reasons aren't going to be what tells you you're _not _one. 

I feel like I see Te. I think I could see it as your dominant function. Who knows how far I am off the mark. XD


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## Dark Romantic (Dec 27, 2011)

Spades said:


> *Reasons I Never Type ENFP and Don't Think I'm ENFP*
> 
> Part 1
> By Scarlet Spades
> ...


All right, so, reading through this, I'm definitely seeing a lot of Te -on the surface- and some of what is unmistakeably Fi. What would be most telling would be as to _why _you often the need to organize, create lists, etc, because that would provide a more in-depth, conclusive answer (for the record, I think we're all in agreement that you use Te). Nothing here, however, disproves Ne or proves Ni, so it doesn't run counter to an ENFP typing. For the sake of discussion, however, I would be willing to explore an ESTJ typing, though I can't see too much evidence of Si compared to Ne or even Ni.

@_Adriana_: Can you explain how you use Ni+Fe? It would be useful to gain the perspective of a dominant Ni user for comparison.

@_Julia Bell_: Same question. Can you explain how Ne+Fi works out for you? It would be very helpful.


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## Enfpleasantly (Mar 5, 2012)

I do have one more thing I'd like to point out that I think is Ne...I noticed in @Spades writing she seems to like covering all the bases. It's as if she is assuming how a person could interpret things, so she says things like "and no, it's not because..." Or "and yes, I already read about...". She writes these kinds of statements before anyone has even asked anything in regard to them...like she is covering that angle ahead of time...like she saw what someone might be thinking as they're reading, leading to a particular question in which she decides to answer ahead of time. Imo, this is very Ne. She knows the many ways something can be taken and the questions these interpretations can lead to someone asking, or an assumption someone might make. I also noticed that she gives a lot of disclaimer-like introductions to many of her posts, again, as if she anticipates what could be said or assumed. I don't see Te doms do this in their writing typically. 

Another thing I find interesting is that she has made comments in the past about the cognitive functions and how anyone can see whatever functions they want in someone and rationalize it in their minds to make it work. I honestly don't think ANYONE can do that...but I know Ne could. I think other functions could as well, but I definitely think a function like Ne would perceive functions in this manner before Te, Fe, or Se would. 

Sorry spades, I know you said you didn't want this to turn into a discussion, but I'm sure you knew it would  I'll stop posting if you want though


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## Spades (Aug 31, 2011)

Julia Bell said:


> @_Spades_, the Enneagram may go "deeper" depending on what the word means. What I like about cognitive functions is that they go "deep" in that they show you how you judge and perceive. That, to me, is absolutely fascinating. So I wouldn't say it's not "deep". I actually don't like the Enneagram as much, even though I think it ought to be appreciated. Just a little tidbit there.


Yeah, I didn't mean to insult. The thing is, people judge and perceive differently depending on the situation, time of their life, etc. Specifically, we can learn to judge and perceive in new and different ways. It's not as static as the MBTI implies, and that's one reason I don't like it. People always say things like "you're only conscious of the first two (or four) functions" but I think that's BS. Since I've learned about them, I can point out when I use all of them, if I wanted to (it's not a fun exercise, it becomes way too obsessive).

I do relate very much to Te, specifically things like this description. The issue again here, is that the descriptions are too flowery and I can relate to Ni, Ne, and quite a bit of the others too...



Dark Romantic said:


> All right, so, reading through this, I'm definitely seeing a lot of Te -on the surface- and some of what is unmistakeably Fi. What would be most telling would be as to _why _you often the need to organize, create lists, etc, because that would provide a more in-depth, conclusive answer (for the record, I think we're all in agreement that you use Te). Nothing here, however, disproves Ne or proves Ni, so it doesn't run counter to an ENFP typing. For the sake of discussion, however, I would be willing to explore an ESTJ typing, though I can't see too much evidence of Si compared to Ne or even Ni.


I feel Part 2 of my list of reasons coming on.

As for ESTJ, that's a possibility for sure. However, I definitely don't see Si overpowering Ne, and I think Ne is more likely to be dominant than Te.



Enfpleasantly said:


> I do have one more thing I'd like to point out that I think is Ne...I noticed in @_Spades_ writing she seems to like covering all the bases. It's as if she is assuming how a person could interpret things, so she says things like "and no, it's not because..." Or "and yes, I already read about...". She writes these kinds of statements before anyone has even asked anything in regard to them...like she is covering that angle ahead of time...like she saw what someone might be thinking as they're reading, leading to a particular question in which she decides to answer ahead of time. Imo, this is very Ne. She knows the many ways something can be taken and the questions these interpretations can lead to someone asking, or an assumption someone might make. I also noticed that she gives a lot of disclaimer-like introductions to many of her posts, again, as if she anticipates what could be said or assumed. I don't see Te doms do this in their writing typically.


Oooh, good eye there! Don't stop posting, you always seem to have unique insight into things . See, that kind of thing I would probably guess to be Ni, but seems like Ne can do it just fine =P

It'd be interesting to determine exactly why I do this. Seems rather Sixish actually. I just want to appear competent when I present something. I don't like being looked at as someone who hasn't thought things through. I like to demonstrate that I've considered things and not simply missed them. Ignorance is not a fun thing (especially to be seen as such).

*Edit*: I don't mean to, but something's been irking me about my tritype. I wonder where my "conscientiousness" comes from (may have misused that word). It's definitely not a 6 fix, that much I know for *sure*. I've been considering 3 or even 1 fixes. I really need to hurry up and read Wisdom already (I have it). *Do you think a 1-fixer can be amoral and not care about being a "good person" or right and wrong at all*? @_Enfpleasantly_ @_Boss_.


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## Paradigm (Feb 16, 2010)

Enfpleasantly said:


> I do have one more thing I'd like to point out that I think is Ne...I noticed in Spades writing she seems to like covering all the bases. It's as if she is assuming how a person could interpret things, so she says things like "and no, it's not because..." Or "and yes, I already read about...". She writes these kinds of statements before anyone has even asked anything in regard to them...like she is covering that angle ahead of time...like she saw what someone might be thinking as they're reading, leading to a particular question in which she decides to answer ahead of time. Imo, this is very Ne.


It's also _very _6w7ish, so I would imagine a few 7w6s show this trait, too. It seems "off and on" with @Spades, whereas for me it's always "on" unless I make an effort not to list everything ever. (I'm exploring my own type, but the consensus right now is Ni-Te-Fi.)

From Typewatch:


6w7 description said:


> 6w7s are less focused and more distractable than 6w5s. They have a disorganized all-over-the-mapness with how they get all their ideas out. They are not as worried about being imprecise as they feel relieved just to be able to empty everything they were considering out of their hyperactive mind. *They hurredly put down their thoughts as fast as they can for fear of leaving something about like jotting down their dreams before they forget them. They list all their points even the most anecdotal ones just in case.* They want to be on the safe side as they are never quite certain about things. While 6w7s are more scattered than 6w5s they can come up with creative ideas that may be missed by more structured thinking.





7 description said:


> They feel if they keep moving and anticipating they can stay one step ahead of being bogged down by all that. It goes without saying they don't sweat the small stuff and are always on the lookout for shortcuts that would get them to their happier more fulfilling future faster.
> The less common intuitive seven is no less addictive but has as much a need for mental stimulation as a need for physical stimulation. All sevens need the potential for a more fulfulling life more than anything. They need something better in their future to look forward to.
> They frequently have a wide range of intellectual interests and can converse about anything. They tend to find it difficult to focus however and are easily destracted by the temptations in life.
> On a more conscious level the seven primarily fears being trapped or stuck in a rut. Being bored or deprived from experiencing life triggers "rut" fears. Sevens find it much easier to acknowledge that they fear a "rut" than they fear "pain". The fear of being stuck or trapped in a rut conveniently relegates the fear of emotional pain to a more subconscious level in the fear queue.


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## Enfpleasantly (Mar 5, 2012)

@Spades, the reason and motivation behind why I write like that is again, the same as yours. I don't like to be misunderstood or for it to be assumed that I didn't already think of something that I did. It's definitely about competency, but for me, it's also about taking away power someone might be able to have over me. If I can cover where they might go with something, then they can't use that against me. It is definitely 6ish. However, for me personally, I'm most definitely a 7, but my 6 wing is pretty strong. I relate to 7 more than 6. 

For what it's worth, my Dad is ENTJ with major 6 in his tritype, he also has 1 in his tritype. He's a total perfectionist and an anxious person. He will cover all the bases when talking about a situation, but in writing, he's very structured and to the point. He doesn't add all the extra stuff in parenthesis, pull out answers to assumed questions, etc. He will write the to the point stuff, but then he'll call to add all the filler points. It's almost as if he likes to keep writing a certain way, and talking another way. I've noticed in myself, I like to write close to the way I would be talking...unless it's professional, of course. 
Also, you mentioned OCD- like tendencies as a child. I too had OCD-like tendencies and still have body focused repetitive OCD behaviors when in an Si stressed state. I also had a tendency to want to do things 4 times, or at least always an even number. I think this is some of the perfectionism stuff I had going on, but...it is also related to impulse control, which ENFP's can tend to have (but that doesn't mean we can't learn to control it, for the record). 

When I was pregnant with my 3rd baby, I called my Dr. constantly over every little thing. This was my 3rd baby and I was more like a first time Mom than I was as an actual first time Mom. I noticed every little thing my body did...I worried and compared it; "did I have this with the other two?" and off to the Dr. I'd end up....always fine, I might add  This was the early signs of me being caught in a Si grip where I was hyper focused on my body sensations...this is explained in the inferior Si article. 

Lastly, covering the bases in assuming possible questions or comments of others is not Ni to me. Maybe you are linking the motives behind why you do that (competency) and Ni? Ni draws things in to a subjective thought, collecting and building as much information as it possibly can. Ne takes an objective thought and expands off of it in every direction it possibly can. Your reason for writing the way you do is objective. The objective is to show competence. 

And I just want you to know that I'm not writing all of this to you to try to convince you. I'm doing it because I feel like I understand where your thoughts might go in trying to find your type. My thinking is that perhaps seeing how ENFP's can be beyond the descriptions, might help you figure out if you are or are not ENFP. Not that specific examples will mean you are or aren't...I'm trying to show you my thought process. 

@Paradigm 6 and 7 are possible in every type, but keep in mind, they are two of the most common types for Ne doms.


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## Enfpleasantly (Mar 5, 2012)

About type 1...I think it varies. We all have values and they are all different. Type 1, in an unhealthy state might speak hypocritcically, like a "do as I say, not as I do" standpoint. Also, not all people have a healthy vision of themselves and might not realize it. Take a narcissist for example; hyperinflated sense of self, so if he/she is also a type 1, they might think their self rightness is correct, rather than distorted.


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## Spades (Aug 31, 2011)

*Reasons I Never Type ENFP and Don't Think I'm ENFP Part 2*

By Scarlet Spades
27 May 2012

*9*. I have a certain fear of chaos. Now this is going to be difficult to explain exactly. A fear of losing control. In crisis situations, I desperately begin to organize and make sense of things. I need to predict outcomes. I need to be on top of things. I desperately can't stand being taken care of by *any* definition. I'd rather forcefully push someone away if they try, and sort it out myself, than to surrender. Asking for help is giving up the challenge.

*10*. I love it when everything falls nicely into place together. I sort of live by this feeling. I can see the pieces and their chronological ordering, how they influence each other, what needs to be done where, and how it completes the final result nicely. Something as small as missing a bus can upset this "coming together", yet something as small as catching the bus by a 5 second time-window makes it that much better.

*11*. I need to complete things via checkpoints. I may like the process of doing things, but I usually like finishing them more. I had a few months off one time, and I was so excited, I pretty much played an MMO every day. By the end of it, I realized that the only reason I had stuck with the game that long (it was supposed to be for a couple weeks) was due to the "satisfaction" I got out of completing quests. I completed ~900 of them... Upon introspection I realized that I really like completing things! (I stopped playing because I reached the highest level =P)

*12*. A bit off topic here, but I received the MBTI Career profiles for INTJ, ENTJ, ENTP, and ENFP from my school. I asked for those four (technically, we were only supposed to get two) but I do wish I could've seen them all. Out of those, ENTP fit best, and ENFP fit worst. The ENFP careers were actually quite repulsive. I'm not even sure how half of them made it on there for ENFP (actor, forester, counselor, fitness trainer, bartender, hairdresser, restaurant host, etc). I do not like social services of any variety.


Now some extra weird bonus stuff. The following may sound like they hint at disorders, but I've thought this through thoroughly, and *I don't have any disorders or disabilities*. By definition, a disorder *inhibits* one's life in a negative manner. If anything, some of them (not listed here) have only *improved* my life, thus it cannot fall under that category.


*13*. As a child and teen, I had obsessive-compulsive-like tendencies. These were too minor to inhibit me though. For example, I would feel the need to fill out forms to the end of the lines if possible. One word on the next line would bother me. Similar with assignments; a sentence on a new page would bother me. It's difficult to explain the range of quirky things to someone who doesn't feel them. For example, even numbers are more visually appealing to me (the more factors, the better!), and odd numbers give me more of an uneasy feeling. And yes, my post-to-thank and number-obsession is likely linked to this. It's all in good fun though.

*14*. I'm a hypochondriac. I won't elaborate on this as it actually relates to inferior Si. I just wanted an even number of points ^______~ There's more but I don't feel like typing anymore.


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## Enfpleasantly (Mar 5, 2012)

@Spades, your lists of why you're NOT ENFP just keep making you more and more ENFP to me  Again, I relate to almost all of that, and I really mean that. I like to complete things too. I always use checkpoints when getting myself through things. I leave some stuff unfinished...like I'll spend an entire day organizing the kids toy room and have only a little more to do, I'll plan on doing it the next day and I won't. Things like that add up and wear me down. I have to push through, and checkpoint goals greatly helps...plus an ENTJ Husband helps that too, Haha! When it comes to doing things I want to be doing, I almost always finish. #9 is insanely like how I think. I will say in a panicky way "hold on, just let me do this!" Or "just let me think!" When I'm frazzled and trying to fix a crisis. I need to see all of the possible solutions and outcomes...when in that state, only those I trust with my life will be able to provide input I might listen to. 

I talk a lot, Haha! If anything, this might make it clear on how ENFP's can seem like Te doms


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## Enfpleasantly (Mar 5, 2012)

Spades said:


> Alright, I don't mean to prod, but I have a very serious question. What constitutes Fi, *in me* in particular? How/where do I demonstrate it? Does this override Te? I have a difficult time seeing it in the context of Fi definitions. I don't have a strong sense of right and wrong, I often have to analyze situations to figure out how to go about them. I need to ensure I'm not acting based on emotion or habit. I don't hold values as absolute, and they aren't clear in my mind as they seem to be for some people. To truly be ENFP, having Ne is not enough. My Fi use has to exceed my Te use, *especially* earlier in life. I don't know if that's ever been the case. That's the main issue I'm having here. If I'm going to "figure this out" so to speak, I want to solidly hammer it out. @ Everyone.


I can't say for sure if it's Ne Fi Te Si or Ne Ti Fe Si that I see with you, but because I see so much Ne and Te with what seems more like Fi than Ti to me, I lean more towards ENFP than ENTP. Maybe if you go through the steps I have below, you might be able to figure out the answer?

Also, in regard to Fi... http://personalitycafe.com/enfp-articles/91932-phases-enfp-growth.html ( full article http://personalityjunkie.com/enfp/) This article explains that in phase 2 of ENFP development, Fi values will become refined and more obvious to them. Since you express that you can't identify Fi in your earlier years, this might explain why. This also might explain why you say you don't hold your values as absolute...because they might still be refining and even forming. At the other end of the spectrum, you might not use Fi in your 4 main functions  Here is the article on ENTP development phases from the same source: http://personalityjunkie.com/entp/

Fi is hard to identify within yourself...very hard, but I think I know how to do it with some of the more blatant values. Also, Fi doesn't mean your values will necessarily be "good", since they are subjective. 

*1) Start by thinking of something that you could speak out against, something that made you feel upset, angered, uneasy, etc. Whatever your reaction within was, think of a specific situation that caused that feeling inside of you:
*

*2) Dissect it and identify value:
*
What is the underlying aspect to the scenario above that bothers you? Things that commonly upset people are; abuse, bullying, neglect, oppression, racism, sexism, homophobia/homosexuality, ignorance, control, etc. 
*
3) We all have values, so now you need to identify if your value is tied to Fi, or Fe: *

Is it something you subjectively believe even if you were the only person in the world to believe it (Fi)? Or is it something you objectively believe because the objective is to flow with society and culture norms that keep you connected to other people (Fe)? This might be very difficult for some to identify correctly because before phase 2 of development in an ENFP, they might not know their subjective values yet and temporarily adopt the values of those around them (like parents) until theirs are formed. Also, Ti and Fi can look very similar, as well as Fi and Fe. 

*4) Identify if you prefer to stay true to your values, or your thinking*: Do you try to make decisions that are logical to you, and also comply with your values (win-win/feeler), or the best logical decision regardless of your personal values/feelings (thinker)?

My personal decision making: If I were to make a decision, I would try my hardest to find a logical solution that would also comply with my values (win-win). If someone was suggesting a solution that went against my values, I would speak up and mention that I find the solution less than ideal. I would then attempt to brainstorm and come to a resolution that would be win-win. If by chance the decision was made and it went against my value, it would be very, very hard for me. However, depending on the value, I might be able to go with a decision that is more logical, and against my value (if win-win is not possible), but I'd likely feel bad about it. Edit: Every value is different and some wouldn't be that hard for me to sacrifice for the best logical answer.


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## Herp (Nov 25, 2010)

Spades said:


> Calling out some experts here. And some Fi users. *Do not feel obligated to reply*.












NOT SURE IF EXPERT OR JUST Fi USER.

Alright, here's the information that might support Fi.



> Inwardly, I process what they are saying and how it relates to me


This, on the q4 of your answers could be relate to Fi as you need to see how the information presented relates to your inner ideal.



> I can't really put words to all my values, it would take a lot of thinking and arranging, and it's difficult when they are fluid and changing. The only way to really consciously determine them (and anything deeply related to your thought process) is through introspection


Since it is a introverted perception function, Fi could be described as 'hard to put to words to' too. Again, you need to look within to determine something you believe in.



> Meditation, conceptualizing, exploring the realm of the unknown, listening to bassy music on good speakers, beautiful sights, colours, and sounds, passion, intensity, laughter, exploring, mystical experience, ego loss, bliss.


I'm not too sure on this one, but I assume that all of these stimuli are important because they relate to how you feel about them - It's Si being flavoured by Fi, I could say.

-

You do have a strong logical side, that's why I thought you to be a thinker. But these information can provide reason as of why you could have Fi as well.


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## Spades (Aug 31, 2011)

Thanks @_Enfpleasantly_! Those articles look great! I will definitely have a look...sometime =P I'm wondering about the questions. Could they not apply to anyone, as everyone has _some_ values they hold? In some cases, the choice is easy (e.g. my ENTP friend is vegan, so meat is out of the question in almost any circumstance) but for some, values aren't important enough to be suppressed at the expense of a really good opportunity (to use the same example, say one had the chance to try Kobe beef (not saying that he would, but yeah)).

Thanks for responding @_Herp_! However, all your points could apply to *any* Introverted function.


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## Herp (Nov 25, 2010)

Spades said:


> Thanks for responding @_Herp_! However, all your points could apply to *any* Introverted function.


Yep.

I have typed you as ENTP. I couldn't see much Fi either.


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## Enfpleasantly (Mar 5, 2012)

Spades said:


> Thanks @_Enfpleasantly_! Those articles look great! I will definitely have a look...sometime =P I'm wondering about the questions. Could they not apply to anyone, as everyone has _some_ values they hold? In some cases, the choice is easy (e.g. my ENTP friend is vegan, so meat is out of the question in almost any circumstance) but for some, values aren't important enough to be suppressed at the expense of a really good opportunity (to use the same example, say one had the chance to try Kobe beef (not saying that he would, but yeah)).
> 
> Thanks for responding @_Herp_! However, all your points could apply to *any* Introverted function.


Yes, but functions are a preference. So I would say a "feeler" will tend to choose maybe a less than best logical answer if it means it will also coincide with their values, while a "thinker" might tend to choose the best logical answer and forfeit their personal values/feelings. I completely agree that it's situational; I don't believe choosing values or logic it's 100% for the majority of people. I think all of our values have different weights, and even for a feeler, logic might be worth sacrificing a value sometimes...it's just a matter of which is our preference (what we tend to strive for the most).

I wanted to add that I think it's the "Te" that's making your typing kind of tough. I think you are definitely Ne Dom, but I'm wondering if Ne-Ti can look like Te? Or maybe it's that Ne-Si counterbalance that can look a lot like Te? Ti and Fi can be very similar, so I could see either one of those working.


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## saffron (Jan 30, 2011)

_Inwardly, I process what they are saying and how it relates to me.

I can't really put words to all my values, it would take a lot of thinking and arranging, and it's difficult when they are fluid and changing. The only way to really consciously determine them (and anything deeply related to your thought process) is through introspection. They can change priority in an instant, when faced with a significant event or realization._

Here are a couple of examples of where I see Fi. I did give some other examples on a different thread. 

And for the record, I don't go around voicing my values to people for the most part. I'm pretty live and let live or to each their own. It's only when something crosses the line in an extreme sort of way that I speak up, react or judge. And when I do it's usually via Te mode because it's more natural to express a judgement through Te since it's an extroverted function.


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

I am so sad I am not an expert yet


All the best! I've been following your thread. I am very excited about what you'll conclude, at the end of it all.


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## Spades (Aug 31, 2011)

Boss said:


> I am so sad I am not an expert yet
> 
> 
> All the best! I've been following your thread. I am very excited about what you'll conclude, at the end of it all.


Conclude? _Conclude?!_ Don't you know, Ne-doms conclude *nothing*.


As much as I like concluding things, this won't be one of them. I might try on a Label for size and giggles.


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

@Jawz just *accused lofl* me of being an ESTJ. :shocked: :laughing::kitteh:
Are you seriously considering Ne dominance?


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## Spades (Aug 31, 2011)

Boss said:


> @_Jawz_ just *accused lofl* me of being an ESTJ. :shocked: :laughing::kitteh:
> Are you seriously considering Ne dominance?


Hahaha "accused". ESTJ's are awesome!

And yeah, maybe. Perhaps my Ni comes from meditation and entheogen use.


I have an unrelated question to anyone. Let's say someone blatantly rejects Fe. Does that make them an Fi user (direction opposite), a Te user (function opposite), or a Ti user (spectrum opposite)?? This kind of thing could be helpful in typing.


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

I am mocking people who whip that 'accused' line out. It's hilarious:laughing:


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## Enfpleasantly (Mar 5, 2012)

Spades said:


> Hahaha "accused". ESTJ's are awesome!
> 
> And yeah, maybe. Perhaps my Ni comes from meditation and entheogen use.
> 
> ...


In the ENTP and ENFP article's I linked, it says that in the initial phase, the dominant function forms and rejects the tert and inferior functions, almost dividing themselves into "who I am" and "who I'm not". So, if you rejected Fe, it could've been your Ne-Ti identifying it as "not you".


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## aconite (Mar 26, 2012)

Asking for my opinion, huh? I think I'm neither an expert nor a Fi user 

In my opinion, there are people with their tertiary function developed more than the auxiliary one. For example, someone using Ne and Te... since both are extroverted, they can't obviously be dom+aux pair. In some (most?) cases, this might be a result of environmental factors, such as parents' influence, culture, traumatic experience, trying to mirror (even unconsciously) traits we admire etc.



Spades said:


> I have an unrelated question to anyone. Let's say someone blatantly rejects Fe. Does that make them an Fi user (direction opposite), a Te user (function opposite), or a Ti user (spectrum opposite)?? This kind of thing could be helpful in typing.


It makes them someone like me as a kid  I'd say it's a sign of inferior Fe, most probably.


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## Inguz (Mar 10, 2012)

@Spades Since you called me as an Expert* I will answer to the best of my ability, but I think my capability is limited to how others react to you, rather than you directly. I can extremely good feel about people, but not in person and without me observing you and how you react to stuff (have gotten a read on a few but I don't know how accurate it is and don't feel like randomly just pointing it out) or if we're not engaging in 1-on-1 chat or similar I actually don't get useful reads I've noticed, because my read usually relates to matching sincerity to how a person acts/talks. (*Yes, it's a joke)


With that out of the way, what others seem to pick up as Fi seems to be that envy of looking at someone who's happy with what they do, and feel good about it to boot. As if what they say is going to be meaningless, because your inner compass is unbreakable. It's what others want to see in themselves, a clear path towards something, and knowing what their hearts desire.

It reminds me very well of the envy towards ISFP, how ISFP can be the way they are, relax AND be happy about it. It feels like I'm repeating myself, but for whatever it's worth I pick up on envy through out this thread, as if the envy towards your persona makes people want to place you as ENFP to downsize how secure you seem to be with yourself and who you are. As an ENFP you could be disregarded as the emanation of Ne spinning out of control and not necessarily to be taken seriously, as their envy stems from a frustration of how they can reach the plateau you seem to stand upon.

I think I've spaced out enough for now, but for whatever it's worth my gut tells me whimsical/happy INTJ. I don't know if it's trustworthy, but it's what it tells me. Oh well, hope this helps anyway.


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## Spades (Aug 31, 2011)

Hmmm. This just in. I made my mom take this test here about *me*:
The Personality Questionnaire for Kids

And she came out with:
Extraverted Thinking Judging type
Portrait of an ETJ Child

I remember when I took it, I came out with ENP type. Perhaps my view of myself is quite skewed, but it could be that hers is as well. The test could be the weakest link too, I do not know. For reference, she is an ISTJ.

Holding off responses to the last few posts for now (busy busy!)


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## Ember (Feb 11, 2012)

Spades said:


> Hmmm. This just in. I made my mom take this test here about *me*:
> The Personality Questionnaire for Kids
> 
> And she came out with:
> ...


I like how I am the only one who voted Te + Si


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## saffron (Jan 30, 2011)

Inguz said:


> @
> It reminds me very well of the envy towards ISFP, how ISFP can be the way they are, relax AND be happy about it. It feels like I'm repeating myself, but for whatever it's worth I pick up on envy through out this thread, as if the envy towards your persona makes people want to place you as ENFP to downsize how secure you seem to be with yourself and who you are. As an ENFP you could be disregarded as the emanation of Ne spinning out of control and not necessarily to be taken seriously, as their envy stems from a frustration of how they can reach the plateau you seem to stand upon[/QUOTE]
> 
> That's a weird statement. I just read through the entire thread and all I could see were people trying to identify function use or enneagram type or possibly clarify misconceptions due to stereotypes. And I'm not sure if you are trying to say that people are suggesting ENFP to undermine her (due to envy) by suggesting she's a different type than she thinks she is, or whether the actual typing as an ENFP would undermine her credibility, or that ENFPs are wishfully thinking she's an ENFP (due to envy). Maybe you could clarify.
> ...


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## Inguz (Mar 10, 2012)

@saffron I will just shut up from now on, there isn't much I can say that not will annoy people one way or the other. Disregard it if you want.


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## Ember (Feb 11, 2012)

ESTJ/ENTP or you can make your own type, "IDFK."

P.S. You do share a few character traits with my ENFP girlfriend when it comes to values, etc.


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## Enfpleasantly (Mar 5, 2012)

I honestly can see any of these types from what you write, and how you present yourself here: 

ENTP
ENFP
ESTJ

I think the hard part @Spades, is that you seem to hold a lot back about yourself that I assume you view as "dark" or "immoral". I could be wrong, but the reason why I have wondered this is because you seem to ask questions surrounding these ideas. Again, I could be wrong. It will be really hard to pinpoint your functions if we are only seeing glimpses of how you think and approach the world around you. I think at this point, all you can really do is read about the functions, specifically how they work together, because none of us use just one function at a time. This might help:

1) At your age, your dominant function is well mastered and might stand out more against your other functions because they are not fully mastered yet. 

2) According to the phases of development that I've read about, you might be only just starting to refine your aux function, and rejecting your tert and inferior. I definitely see you rejecting feeling functions from what you write here, but it's unclear if it's S or N that you have rejected in the past along with it. I would say you should ask yourself if you are rejecting them because they naturally feel uncomfortable for you, or because you don't WANT to be a them<----not asking literally, meaning for you to ask yourself because I only see the Spades on PerC. This divide usually looks like this: "This is who I am" "This is who I'm not", Where someone who is finishing phase 2 or starting phase 3 of development would likely feel less divided (for me, that's Ne-Fi and Te-Si) and recognize that they have both aspects to their personality (even if they might not openly admit that). 

3) Interestingly, ESTJ/ENFP share the same functions. Perhaps what we are seeing here is you becoming in touch with the Ne-Fi portion of your function order, or vice versa? 

4) Either way, try to find which Dom/aux you think you've used up until this point in your life, and which new aspects to "who you are" you are starting to recognize. That might help you find your order


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