# What is the absolute worst thing about being your Enneatype?



## charlie.elliot (Jan 22, 2014)

I'm not really asking about times when you were unhealthy, in particular... (although it could be). Describe something that happens to you from time to time that is an example of your type at its worst.


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## Daeva (Apr 18, 2011)

I... hold back. I must've mentioned this countless times on this forum, but it truly is one of the biggest hurdles I wrestle with.

I am constantly balancing a severe character with a need for "letting go." I so desperately wish I could let go. Just _be_. Nothing more, nothing less. But.I.Just.Can't.
Fuck knows I try. I try so hard. But my spontaneity is premeditated.

It's because I hold back. But why hold back then, one might wonder? What's the worst that could happen?
When I don't hold back, and these moments do occur, I become *filled* with energy, light, force, drive, aggression, fire, and a need to *push*. I waltz over everyone and everything. In the moment, this feels great. It's energizing! I feel alive!!!
But at what cost? I leave behind a trail of blood and anger. Pain. *Hurt*. Shame. Rage. Destruction. _Wrath_.

I feel as though I can't go in-between. Either I hold back from... spontaneity.. _myself_.. so much that I hold back from expressing anything at all to the world. _Or_ I unleash myself, and I tear the world around me asunder. I typed at 9 for a reason...

This creates stress, it brings a restlessness. I'm on edge, so I numb the experience of myself. If I can't feel my own, then I'm not on edge. But then again, if I can't feel my own, I might as well be dead. I'm not dead, so I can't ever truly repress the vindictiveness over what I _can't_ do...
I see others neglect themselves, neglect their partners, their relationships. I see them neglect common sense and reason. I see them neglect* the heart and their Passion*. And I hate because of it. I hate that they don't care, because I care *too much*. I care too much... Too much, so much, that I end up _having_ to hold myself back from the world, lest I eat it whole.


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## SheWolf (Apr 17, 2015)

Doubt.

All the time.

I never feel satisfied with an answer. I always think there could be a better solution or perhaps the answer is incorrect. I want an answer, but there never IS one. Not to me, anyway. Constant dissatisfaction.

Needless mind chatter. Blahblahblahblahblah....
How does my brain not crash like a computer?

Never being able to do anything without mental preparation. Even though it can be quick and I can think on my feet, sometimes the fear sweeps over me and that creates more fear and it spirals out of control. 

Ugh. Can't I be like, an 8 or something? LOL.


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## Catwalk (Aug 12, 2015)

> What is the absolute worst thing about being your Enneatype?



(A) -- Push / pull effect [with important individual(s) - or anyone].

(B) -- Unhealthy knowledge hoarding / hogging [irrationalism] (via) paranoia.

(C) -- Unable to distinguish between mental illness (&) my actual Enneatype.

(D) -- Reality 'disconnect,' || emotional illiteracy while acquiring emotion(s).

(F) -- Isolation / privacy malfunction(s) --> can isolate self comfortably until physical / mental health disintegrate into psychosis.

(E) -- Because 5w6 - enough said.


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## SheWolf (Apr 17, 2015)

Catwalk said:


> (C) -- Unable to distinguish between mental illness (&) my actual Enneatype.


Same :')

Anxiety/Paranoia or just Type 6? Who the hell knows?  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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## Dragheart Luard (May 13, 2013)

I sometimes suck at focusing and keeping track of what I have to do. I also keep people at arm's length unless I feel comfortable with them, and if I don't interact with them during a good while I may even forget to keep in touch anymore. I can be a stick in the mud at times, specially for college stuff.


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## Scarlet Eyes (May 15, 2015)

*1.* Keeping my thoughts and emotions secret because I know that I'll be misinterpreted.

*2.* Withdrawing my love and attention from others - or just engaging in toxic power plays. 

*3.* Becoming so fixated with what's authentic / inauthentic in my personality that it defeats the ultimate purpose of _being._

*4.* Like @Catwalk said before, not knowing if my tendencies are the results of mental illness or just my Enneatype.

*5.* Being sucked into dark fantasies of embodying my greatest flaws. 

*6.* Feeling unable to harness my fantasizing into something positive. 


And now excuse me while I crank out a poem inspired by Prometheus. Meh, why do summer assignments kill the fun in these pursuits? ><''


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## Quernus (Dec 8, 2011)

Um, debilitating insecurity, I suppose. Feeling alien and defective. No matter what I do, something is always missing. I'm always in danger of being seen as the worthless being I am (to my mind). I sometimes cope with it by trying to be transparent to begin with, but it's still never enough. I more often try to cope with it by withdrawing, and that only reinforces to my mind that there is something to "see through" or "discover", even if I can't even pinpoint what it is. 

And then, the envy. The comparisons. Oh, it eats me alive.


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## 1000BugsNightSky (May 8, 2014)

Being a 9.


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## Quernus (Dec 8, 2011)

Also not a fan of how easily I become restless when not enough is going on, and then how quickly I become overwhelmed with strong emotions when that changes. ??? Very hard to cope.


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## compulsiverambler (Jan 7, 2010)

The worst thing about being a Nine is having to deal with everyone who isn't a Nine.


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## Quernus (Dec 8, 2011)

compulsiverambler said:


> The worst thing about being a Nine is having to deal with everyone who isn't a Nine.


So, then... how do 9s interact with one another, anyway?


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## coconut sharks (Apr 26, 2015)

Feeling flawed and vulnerable because you know everyone can see there's something wrong with you.
Constant mood swings.
Longing for something you can't describe.
Inactivity, spending too much time thinking instead of doing.


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## compulsiverambler (Jan 7, 2010)

Quernus said:


> So, then... how do 9s interact with one another, anyway?


That's the second-worst thing about being a Nine. 

It's great to be around people who are also easy-going and laid-back, so I sometimes wish everyone were one. A world with no stressy people, what bliss. However, then I remember that being with another Nine when there are decisions to be made often descends into a battle for beta position, because we're both accustomed to and happier with other people doing all the 'worrying' about future plans. I always lose, because I have ADHD and can't shut up and wait five seconds for someone else to talk, so I break first in these blank expectant staring contests. I hate having to take on a dominant role because someone else is even more passive than I am, and that's what would happen all the time on an all-Nine planet. Hell, I'd probably end up being pushed into world leadership just because of my enthusiasm and talkativeness being mistaken for dominance.

There are also a lot of wrong turns.

"Wait, where are we going?"
"I don't know, I was following you."
"But I thought *I* was following *you*?"


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## 7rr7s (Jun 6, 2011)

3w4. 

Pulling the weight of the team and having to take charge constantly because everyone else doesn't share your work ethic or isn't competent enough to get the job done right. 

Having to justify your work ethic or explain your idealism to people who don't get it. This can be especially tough on lovers and family members or even friends who would rather you not put your work/goals/vision above them. 

People thinking you're stuck up, uptight, or too cool for school sometimes. 

People thinking you're boring. 

When you let the competitive spirit get the better of you for no reason. 

Keeping in touch with everyone.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

The dilemma of hurting people you love and swore to protect because you weren't vulnerable enough towards them and you lock yourself and your emotions and needs away but that you can't always protect them if you don't put your emotions and personal needs on the side.


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## mistakenforstranger (Nov 11, 2012)

The inability to love myself, or feeling like I don't deserve to be loved or happy for who you are. The perpetuating cycle of self-hate and self-punishment. The shame that keeps you from living the life you've always wanted.


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## sloop (Jan 19, 2015)

Having any sort of conflict take a physical toll on me

People mistaking my easy-going attitude for weakness

Constantly regretting that I didn't properly assert myself in a situation

Constantly dismissing my needs and desires as unimportant


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## _Blackstar_ (Jul 22, 2015)

*Pure yearning.

Wistfulness as a state of being.

Shame from guilt, guilt from shame, and anger from guilt and shame ad infinitum.

Coming to terms with the crushing inadequacy of everyday experience while numerous neon-light, limelight fantasies flutter through your mind as you navigate the humdrum obligations of real life.

Dreaming of impossibilities while life sits before you in monochrome.

Shaking at the beauty you see and imagine while onlookers express concern and indifference.

Wrestling with life's complexities and feeling alone for it, even though everybody else struggles in the same way.

Waxing from feeling you could pull the moon from the sky to waning to the extent that moving a fingertip feels like shifting a mountain.

Choosing to be alone even though you want comfort and company.

Feeling alone and abandoned even if you aren't alone and abandoned.

Wanting to cry and hating yourself for it.

Loving people who stand out, but simultaneously feeling hostile toward them for belittling your sense of individuality.

Assuming a positive mood-swing means you've reached nirvana, and assuming a negative mood-swing means you're at rock bottom (and identifying with melancholia over optimism because you've perversely romanticised pain).

Feeling like an extremist, but perceiving true extremists and hedonists as immature.

Struggling with self-hatred to the extent that you tax relationships with your baggage.

Seeking an all-consuming bond in every new relationship.

Refusing to be anyone but yourself, but imagining that everyone else has it better than you (wanting to have your cake and eat it! :tongue

Hating and loving the same person at once.

Reading the most traumatising, romantic themes you can imagine into the music you listen to.

Fantasising about rescuers -- especially when you are vulnerable or intoxicated.

Possessing an apparently ideal schema of what life should be, but falling short of it amid the collisions and complications of real life.

Living in your head but lacking intellectualism, and feeling that you are devoid of personal significance.

Lusting after someone who is perfect in your imagination, but repulses and stimulates envy in you when you see them.

Fantasising about ideals, but falling short of them in reality, and feeling melancholic for it.

Aching for beauty, even though you only see darkness and deficiency in yourself.

Retreating to your mind for solace, but finding nothing but confusion and anguish there.

Perturbing, upsetting and annoying everyone around you when you're at low health because you're too 'precious' to be around.

Wanting pain because you think it makes you special.

Falling victim to obsession and fascination over and over and over ...

Craving beauty and fascination.

Imagining life like an optimist, but living life like a pessimist.

Living as a contradiction, and simultaneously refusing it and defending it to the death.

Feeling like your true self is a mask, and trying to tear it off, terrified that there is nothing deeper to you than your mercurial emotions.
*


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## Animal (May 29, 2012)

Daemonion said:


> * *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Enneagram fixations aside.... this post is pure poetry.
Please keep posting.








[How do I follow the powerful posts here?]
/Animal crawls back into its kittybox/


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## Animal (May 29, 2012)

Animal said:


> [How do I follow the powerful posts here?]
> /Animal crawls back into its kittybox/


^ Comparisons. :frustrating:

Fearing rejection so badly that I'll do anything in my power to prevent it - and in doing so, trying not to show how much I obsess, because it's pathetic. All that he might have loved about me - my passion, my intensity, my bizarreness, whatever - is lost in my attempt to show that I need him less than he needs me; that I don't need him at all. I don't want him to settle for me because I'm easy, but I don't want him to think I don't like him... so I balance on a tightrope, which I absolutely suck at because the only thing I can do well is express myself. And I become more and more dishonest, devoid of expression, a mirror of him, reacting only as much as he does, showing only as much emotion as he does. I feel, then, that if only he could see me as I really am - he might love me. But to show him who I really am, would involve ripping my heart straight out of my chest and leaving it for him to destroy. Because all that I am is this obsession. It takes me over. And if he sees how much he fuels my music, how deeply he runs through my veins, how I mirror and introject the traits I envy, how the traits that connect me to him start to matter more than the rest of me... he will know the sad truth - that I'm pathetic, desperate, and below him. So I have to play it cool... and then he sees... cool. He sees a mirror of himself, an echo, a shadow of what I once was. So of course he's going to reject me; because there's nothing to love. Anything real about me goes into my diaries, my songs, my art, my poetry, my photographs. I photograph myself with my male alter-ego because it's the closest I can get to being seen, being loved, being with him... being him. I can't get any closer to him than taking his essence into my own. But that is only for my art to know. And maybe my close friends who know the meaning behind my art... or at least a fraction of it. But I become paler and paler before him. In my effort to hold the power over him, I disappear. I don't do this by pleasing him or showing love; that would be much better. No... I do it by showing how much I don't care, how I don't need him, how my art is more important, how I'm independent. But then he can't see my vulnerability, my heart... he can't see anything to love about me. I'm a muse at best, an echo at worst... perhaps a vampire, feeding on the living. I'm not like that when I'm alone but he can't see me when I'm alone. He can't see me at all, because I can't be myself. The best I can hope for is that he'll come to my shows and I'll sing my songs into his eyes - but that won't do much because I lost my voice and my passion was ruthlessly stolen from me. So what is left to love? And why would I even dream that he would love me when I know I'm not me around him? He might obsess over my image, but he can't see me. And there's no one to blame but myself.

This was the story of my life before I met my husband. His love redeems me and I surrender - I could not possibly have redeemed myself. I know he won't reject me, so I tell him how much I love him.. I spout poetry about him all over the forum, all over everything. Yet really, I'm not the romantic it might seem. We work because we ignore each other on separate computers, because we both introvert beside one another; because we accept each other and love each other as we are, but we also don't need constant doting. I could sing praises endlessly about our love, but the singing part is key: he is my lover and my muse. And I would never degrade him by reducing him to a muse or an art project; that is what I do when there is no other way to be with someone, when I need to find what I'm looking for within myself, because I can't find it with him. But I could never love without also selfishly making art out of it - my core is to be inspired and inspiring, to mirror and be mirrored. He loves me exactly as I am, and I tell him everything, I cry over imaginary rejections right in front of him.. and he holds me, cries with me and redeems me by telling me his own feelings and fears and needs. This makes me feel human - love is communication. But I will never simply be human. I'll always be a muse and an animal.. my art is a symbol of my humanity, sometimes the only one I can show.. but to spill it to my soulmate, plain and raw, is something I always dreamed of and yearned for.. but never expected would happen. I never believed I would surrender to any sort of rescuer, but I admit I could not simply do this again.. I can't do it on my own. 

Feeling most connected to people when they're suffering. 

Feeling ashamed of my shame, to the point that sometimes I can't even recognize it.

Wondering if there is a line between life and art; image and humanity. For me, there isn't. Wondering if that's universal, or if I'm inhuman because of it.

Wanting to go back to my home planet. Feeling like people here don't care enough about the depths of things, yet care too much about things that are irrelevant. 

Resenting people who are young because I don't want to age or die and I feel like much of my life was stolen from me by illness. Comparing myself to what I could have been. Comparing myself to my parallel life on my home planet. That version of me is a magnification of my flaws and an improvement of my flaws at the same time. 

Feeling like I'd be a more ideal self if I would embody my flaws more fully, more boldly.

But which flaws? The flaw that makes me fear rejection? Yes, even that - because if I would embody it fully, then I wouldn't bring rejection on myself because my humanity and vulnerability would be right there. And who could walk away from that? Yet when the time comes, I just.. can't do it, because the fear of rejection renders me speechless and worthless.

Feeling more real in my books and songs than in my life, yet still feeling like I live in a more "real" way than other people... yet also feeling like I don't live enough, because I'm so fixated on whether I'm real, and whether I'm embodying my flaws and my image in the most honest way possible, that I become... unreal.

Mirroring. Introjecting.

I love my emotions and I'm not ashamed of them. What I'm ashamed of, is failing to embody them fully enough. Yet, is that even a real thing? What if exactly the way I am, is what's real? What if it's real to just _be_?

Feeling like a burden on my loved ones.

Idealizing something so much - such as my ideal image, the idea for my novel, the concept album in my mind - that nothing I could possibly do could bring it to fruition quite the way I dreamed, and I don't want to let go of the fantasy by tarnishing it with reality. The album will never sound like it did in my head - so I hesitate to record it at all. Yet I do, and then I feel disappointed in what comes out, and I don't want to record the next one; but my written and un-recorded albums are a noose around my neck and I can't move on in my life unless I record them. Yet that's expensive, and I don't want to end up with a mess like my first album; I know I did my best, but it's just never enough. I have to embrace and embody my ideals and my visions, or else they will consume me alive; and I know that is my path in life. Yet I have to overcome that feeling that nothing I ever do will measure up to what I imagined or what I could have been. I have to let life just be what it is, let my work be what it is, let myself be what I am; yet still continue chasing my dreams. When is the point when I say "This novel is good enough" and send it off? Do I just set a deadline like I did with my album and then regret it later? Do I even regret that? I don't know. Recording my album through my whispery voice is the only real thing I ever did besides marrying my husband.

Living as a ghost of my past, and sometimes resurrecting it through art.

Loving my husband absolutely, yet reminiscing over the past because it is part of me, and I can't let go of my losses and tragedies. Thankfully he loves me with all of it; but I sometimes hate myself for not being fair to him. Yet I have to keep my promise to myself, to remain honest with him; never to close my heart to him for the sake of "saving him from myself," "not being a burden" or "trying to be better." Constantly learning to_ just be me_.


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## Angina Jolie (Feb 13, 2014)

how much i need people to mirror back at me who i am. feeling existentially pointless if that void of meaning is not filled by another person or their point of meaning. being a badass bitch inside my head and quite the opposite outside of it.
constantly feeling like just being, existing and enjoying things is not enough and is pointless.

being terrified of moving my mind to a different place because it makes you feel like death is looking at you and a tragedy is bound to happen.


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## bruh (Oct 27, 2015)

The feeling of "not knowing how to be" Often times I am struck with the idea that I am merely a blank/transparent sheet, and that I need to do something about it. I have learned to recognize these thoughts as a trap, in the past this is the point where I would start becoming dangerously imaginative and dishonest with myself/obsessed with my reflection. I still however, have the same thoughts, and I learned to cope with it better.


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## Georgius (Apr 16, 2016)

Getting close to someone and end up wanting to be infinitely close to them and end up merging every damn time.


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## Recede (Nov 23, 2011)

Never really living, experiencing life as something to get through.


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## compulsiverambler (Jan 7, 2010)

Recede said:


> Never really living, experiencing life as something to get through.


That sound like depression, not any particular Enneatype.


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## compulsiverambler (Jan 7, 2010)

.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

Getting the conversation going on in my head to match the one going on outside of it.


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## angelfish (Feb 17, 2011)

Having a jumpy response to everything. 

A couple years ago my SO brilliantly planned a surprise 3-day beach trip for us. He arranged with my manager and my coworkers to have me off those days, without me knowing. He reserved us rooms at a resort and packed the car. The morning of, he woke me up, handed me the hotel printouts, and... 

I _flipped my shit_. I panicked. I got angry. Work was busy, I couldn't leave. I had things left undone. Taking this vacation would doom me to work the whole next weekend. I was tired. I hadn't slept enough. I was planning on visiting my grandma. I didn't know where my favorite swimsuit was. I was still too chubby to wear my bikini top. I wasn't feeling like 5 hours in the car. I didn't have my sandals. Everything was wrong. 

Fortunately he understands the kind of idiot I am and so he endured my panic-anger for the two hours or so it lasted before I shut up, got in the car, and had a fantastic time. 

_- How to destroy a surprise vacation, courtesy of an e6_


* *




I sort of/almost killed his surprise engagement plans the same way




This is obviously the magnified worst-case-scenario version but it holds true for everything. Chose a banana smoothie? OMG MAYBE I SHOULD HAVE GOTTEN STRAWBERRY. Chose strawberry? OMG MAYBE I SHOULD HAVE GOTTEN BANANA. e6 is a special kind of curse


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## kirsten.j (Jul 12, 2016)

Feeling like I'm the only one who cares and feeling embarrassed about how I can't let little things go, knowing that everyone is probably laughing at me, envying people who can just relax and trust that everything will be okay. 
Never being happy with myself, always trying to figure out how to become the person I'm supposed to be, always looking back on who I used to be and hating that person because of how inadequate she was, but also knowing that my current self will the person my future self will look back on in regret. Constant guilt.


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## Recede (Nov 23, 2011)

compulsiverambler said:


> That sound like depression, not any particular Enneatype.


Depression can cause something similar, but what I'm talking about is the more Nine-specific version. Someone can tune out much of their life or just be pretty habit-bound, staying in their comfort zone, without actually being depressed. The issue of the Nine is that they basically sleepwalk through life.


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## No_this_is_patrick (Jun 27, 2016)

Inability to focus probably. Having this nagging feeling that you're capable of anything and yet fearing to really pursue anything worthwhile because it would mean missing out on your other options.


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## Angina Jolie (Feb 13, 2014)

@Recede when you think about truly embracing life and the NOW, that bliss and euphoria.... do you feel a bit of terror?
I do.


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## compulsiverambler (Jan 7, 2010)

Recede said:


> Depression can cause something similar, but what I'm talking about is the more Nine-specific version. Someone can tune out much of their life or just be pretty habit-bound, staying in their comfort zone, without actually being depressed. The issue of the Nine is that they basically sleepwalk through life.


My attention isn't pulled in the same direction as most people's, in the sense that I don't plan or make decisions any more than I absolutely have to, and I never daydream about my own self or life, only the characters I make up in my head - though that second part is an autistic trait, so it's probably not Enneagram-related. Is that the sort of thing you mean? 

I don't experience those traits as negative and wouldn't have used your wording for them, though I suppose some people from the outside looking in might describe my behaviour like that. My subjective experience is of mentally and emotionally engaging with life as fully as anyone else or more so, whatever I'm doing - whether engrossed in a daydream, analytical thought, a conversation, having a pleasant walk or playing with my pets. I don't feel like I tune things out, they just naturally aren't on my radar. However, I did try to forget my life by willfully escaping into fantasy and other distractions as much as possible when my circumstances were bad, so maybe it's related to stress levels or the health of the personality at the time?


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

- constantly feeling depleted
- difficulty connecting with the external world. I swear the sexual instinct is the only reason I leave my apartment. granted, if I didn't need to network for jobs and already had a perfect partner, I wouldn't care about this, but alas, neither are the case 
- living in the mind (and sometimes forgetting that's where you live)
- fear of running out of resources
- wanting to stay hidden under a rock/shelter like there is constantly a storm I need to wait out
- lots of expertise in things with no real world value :laughing:
- wonderful at criticizing things, breaking them down, re-organizing them and making fine distinctions.....but absolute rubbish at actually _doing_ anyway
- (Sexual 5w4 specifically) wanting an idealized partner who probably doesn't even exist. you wish you could be less picky, but you can't. it's all or nothing, otherwise it's just not the same. this is going to sound really self-victimizing, but if I'm being perfectly honest, I practically cry myself to sleep every night yearning for that kind of perfect intimacy that I may never find again[/end dramatic soap box]
- crippling feelings of _loneliness_


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## Quang (Sep 4, 2014)

Occasional spacing out, slowness of response, and not standing up for myself during conflict.


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## compulsiverambler (Jan 7, 2010)

Animal said:


> [How do I follow the powerful posts here?]
> /Animal crawls back into its kittybox/





Animal said:


> ^ Comparisons. :frustrating:


Haha, I've *just* worked out what you meant by "follow"! When I first (and second and third) read that line the other day, I thought you were lamenting the lack of a feature here for subscribing to individual users so as to get notifications whenever they post. I wondered if I had misunderstood, because it seemed like odd, vague phrasing to use if bringing the idea up straight out of nowhere. LOL. Even the 'Comparisons' comment wasn't a big enough clue until I read it the fourth time the next day. Nice little indicator there of the size of the role competitiveness and personal comparisons play in the mind of a Nine. :tongue:


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## Animal (May 29, 2012)

compulsiverambler said:


> Haha, I've *just* worked out what you meant by "follow"! When I first (and second and third) read that line the other day, I thought you were lamenting the lack of a feature here for subscribing to individual users so as to get notifications whenever they post. I wondered if I had misunderstood, because it seemed like odd, vague phrasing to use if bringing the idea up straight out of nowhere. LOL. Even the 'Comparisons' comment wasn't a big enough clue until I read it the fourth time the next day. Nice little indicator there of the size of the role competitiveness and personal comparisons play in the mind of a Nine. :tongue:


Hahahaha so true.

There were so many great posts here.. and then when I came to post, the last post on the thread was @*Daemonion*'s - which was pure poetry. Soulful and heart-wrenching, honest poetry. That post was art. 

I had nothing particularly artistic and poetic to say at the time, but I had a few complaints about myself that I wanted to rant about here - but after his awesome post, I felt inspired... like, damn, I can't follow that up with some lame nonsense. I didn't really feel like I needed to outdo him in some way, though - it's more that I felt driven to put my whole heart into the post because of the mood that was set.... even though mine would be nothing like his. I don't compete to be better at a specific thing, but rather, to be the most honest version of _myself_. I would never want to be like anyone else... only _more_ like myself.

That is what I love about my instincts for competition and how I respond to inspiration. roud: If I wouldn't feel envious when others display something that feels "more me than me" .. more artistic, more passionate, more soulful.. and thus.. feel the drive to push myself to bare my own soul... I wonder what would push me to improve? I wonder if part of 9s' sloth is pushing away the competitive drive? And why they grow to 3? Because acknowledging and embracing the desire for competition would push you to improve, no?


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## Aridela (Mar 14, 2015)

Emotional instability. 

Which I 'handle' by shutting up and not acknowledging emotions. 

Which in turn leads to dissatisfaction with life in general cause I've taken all 'flavour' away. 

So, I open up again thinking being vulnerable is better than numb. 

Then something bad happens inevitably and the vicious cycle begins again.


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## kirsten.j (Jul 12, 2016)

oh the irony said:


> @Recede when you think about truly embracing life and the NOW, that bliss and euphoria.... do you feel a bit of terror?
> I do.


What do you mean by "bliss and euphoria"? Why would embracing the now necessarily lead to bliss and euphoria? 

I'm just asking, because people were talking about how Nines ignore life and "sleepwalk through life"... so my question is, what's stopping them from engaging with the life around them? And since I know Nines have a tendency towards positivity (sometimes unwarranted), could it be that you're expecting embracing life to be blissful, simply from the notion of "living in the now"... but if you find out it actually isn't blissful, you would start ignoring it again?


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## Angina Jolie (Feb 13, 2014)

kirsten.j said:


> What do you mean by "bliss and euphoria"? Why would embracing the now necessarily lead to bliss and euphoria?
> 
> I'm just asking, because people were talking about how Nines ignore life and "sleepwalk through life"... so my question is, what's stopping them from engaging with the life around them? And since I know Nines have a tendency towards positivity (sometimes unwarranted), could it be that you're expecting embracing life to be blissful, simply from the notion of "living in the now"... but if you find out it actually isn't blissful, you would start ignoring it again?


Not exactly. 9s numb themselves - neither strong lows nor strong highs are pleasant. And when I think of truly embracing life and being spontaneous and impulsive with my momentary wishes and desires - I do associate it with bliss. And bliss is scary because it is such a high, it feels like it is out of control. It is scary for me and gives me chills, like death is near. Just imagining it.


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## kirsten.j (Jul 12, 2016)

oh the irony said:


> Not exactly. 9s numb themselves - neither strong lows nor strong highs are pleasant. And when I think of truly embracing life and being spontaneous and impulsive with my momentary wishes and desires - I do associate it with bliss. And bliss is scary because it is such a high, it feels like it is out of control. It is scary for me and gives me chills, like death is near. Just imagining it.


The word "bliss" just seems so absolute though, and life is never absolute, even when you're living impulsively or spontaneously (or however it is that you really want to live)... there will always be moments that suck, no matter what you're doing. 

sorry to derail the thread!


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Aridela said:


> Emotional instability.
> 
> Which I 'handle' by shutting up and not acknowledging emotions.
> 
> ...


the core 4 and the 5 wing seem to hate each other :tongue:


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## Angina Jolie (Feb 13, 2014)

kirsten.j said:


> The word "bliss" just seems so absolute though, and life is never absolute, even when you're living impulsively or spontaneously (or however it is that you really want to live)... there will always be moments that suck, no matter what you're doing.
> 
> sorry to derail the thread!


That's the thing I think - when the moment feels blissful but the feeling of - it cant be like this forever, something is about to happen, something bad. Or the only way to go from here is down. Going higher is going into non-existence.... death. I really can't explain why but happiness, that fulfilled feeling to me is very closely associated with a feeling of death. 
Probably has to do with 9s merging with their environment and feeling uncomfortable when the environment changes so imagine happiness and then knowing that it cannot stay like that forever. It just cannot. That would be the inevitable destruction of the state that you are in - happiness. 

I'm not sorry for derailing the thread - we are conversing on somewhat topic.


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## compulsiverambler (Jan 7, 2010)

oh the irony said:


> Not exactly. 9s numb themselves - neither strong lows nor strong highs are pleasant. And when I think of truly embracing life and being spontaneous and impulsive with my momentary wishes and desires - I do associate it with bliss. And bliss is scary because it is such a high, it feels like it is out of control. It is scary for me and gives me chills, like death is near. Just imagining it.


Are you an introvert? I don't feel that way at all, maybe it's an over-stimulation thing with introverted Nines.


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## Angina Jolie (Feb 13, 2014)

compulsiverambler said:


> Are you an introvert? I don't feel that way at all, maybe it's an over-stimulation thing with introverted Nines.


I do type as introvert although my need for people sometimes feels very extroverted so i don't know.
But yeah, over-stimulation it is. 
I've read some of your comments before though and wanted to ask before - why do you type as 9? What specifically made you realize - yeah, that's me?


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## Recede (Nov 23, 2011)

compulsiverambler said:


> My attention isn't pulled in the same direction as most people's, in the sense that I don't plan or make decisions any more than I absolutely have to, and I never daydream about my own self or life, only the characters I make up in my head - though that second part is an autistic trait, so it's probably not Enneagram-related. Is that the sort of thing you mean?


That can be an example of it. I also relate to the part about not daydreaming about your own life, just made up characters. 



compulsiverambler said:


> I don't experience those traits as negative and wouldn't have used your wording for them, though I suppose some people from the outside looking in might describe my behaviour like that. My subjective experience is of mentally and emotionally engaging with life as fully as anyone else or more so, whatever I'm doing - whether engrossed in a daydream, analytical thought, a conversation, having a pleasant walk or playing with my pets. *I don't feel like I tune things out, they just naturally aren't on my radar.* However, I did try to forget my life by willfully escaping into fantasy and other distractions as much as possible when my circumstances were bad, so maybe it's related to stress levels or the health of the personality at the time?


That's exactly what it feels like. Often Nines aren't intentionally trying to block out or ignore things, usually it just feels like they don't enter our radar or aren't a big deal to us. Sloth is an unconscious defense mechanism, so we don't have much conscious awareness or control over it. It can be really hard to recognize, for that reason, and I think it's also why it's been said that Nines are often more easily identified by what's not there than what's there.


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## Recede (Nov 23, 2011)

oh the irony said:


> @*Recede* when you think about truly embracing life and the NOW, that bliss and euphoria.... do you feel a bit of terror?
> I do.


I think I might. I think part of it for me is that I have a hard time imagining it, it doesn't feel like it's something that can really happen. Like it's behind a glass wall and looks far away, unreal.

I think part of the terror (for Nines) comes from the thought of letting go of Sloth, letting down their defense, and the other part comes from the fear that if they try to, they might find they can't, that they're cut off and separate from life.


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## Nothing1 (Jan 22, 2014)

Being in a chronic state of envy.


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## Angina Jolie (Feb 13, 2014)

Recede said:


> I think part of the terror (for Nines) comes from the thought of letting go of Sloth, letting down their defense, and the other part comes from the fear that if they try to, they might find they can't, that they're cut off and separate from life.


but is it the very deep base fear? I'm not sure if I relate to it in the deepest core or at leats haven't connected to it yet.
I've been having cynical thoughts about romance lately. I can't imagine being in a relationship, happy anymore. It feels like I would have to be keeping up a facade constantly. Couldn't figure out why at first but now it seems to me that I simply identify as someone who is sad. I identify with deep sadness and ''the universe is against me'' mindset so imagining being happy, which a good relationship could nourish, feels fake. Because I'M NOT A HAPPY PERSON OR SOMEONE TO WHOM GOOD THINGS HAPPEN, WHO EVER GETS WHAT SHE MOST DESIRES.

Yeah I guess, if I try, I might find out I can't and the fall is just unbearable. True. But I don't exactly understand the ''separate from life'' fear when it comes to really living.


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## compulsiverambler (Jan 7, 2010)

oh the irony said:


> I do type as introvert although my need for people sometimes feels very extroverted so i don't know.
> But yeah, over-stimulation it is.
> I've read some of your comments before though and wanted to ask before - why do you type as 9? What specifically made you realize - yeah, that's me?


At first, it was noticing and having pointed out to me that some of my traits are generally considered very un-Fivish, and together might indicate Nine instead. Namely: instantly open and receptive to anyone who starts talking to me, overly trusting, prone to minimising and putting positive-spin on problems, uncynical and annoyed by others' cynicism, strong tendency to give the benefit of the doubt and think up the most generous possible explanations for someone's bad behaviour, not being private by default about emotions or weaknesses, consistently give the benefit of the doubt and think up possible explanations for others' words and actions that would are as generous to their character and intentions as possible.

From as early as I can remember, I've been very reluctant to assert myself with people when our familiarity level is neither close family at one end of the spectrum nor strangers at the other (I'm fine with conflict with those two categories), because I feel like something very bad might happen. 

I always knew that but figured it was probably caused by my autistic traits making conflict hard for me to navigate skillfully and predict the outcome of. Then I rhought no, when I'm not genuinely struggling to function in life because of my neurodevelopmental quirks, I don't worry about or feel a need to prove my competence to myself all the time anymore yet I atill love spending hours learning about obscure subjects, so I can't be a Five, just a Nine who has had the preoccupation of a Five due to external circumstances. Now I think I might be a Seven, as they too are optimistic and escapist, and I'm not sure I understand what some of the core traits of Nine actually mean (wanting to "merge" and self-forget, for example - I'm into non-dual philosophy and the pursuit of 'ego death', so I assumed that's what it meant at first, especially as the Enneagram came out of the modern non-duality movement in the first place).

I don't know, I could just fear confrontation due to autism, I could just have obsessive interests and be greedy for lots of time to freely engage with them because of autism, and I could just have a huge intolerance of not being mentally stimulated at all times because of ADHD. So I might not be any of those three types at all.


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## Masterpiece (Jul 17, 2016)

1. A turtle moves faster than me (monday mornings suck).
2. So passive I'd kiss up to a butterfly's ass if they had one.
3. You know that rock in my backyard? Yeah, we share the same personality.
4. *Finally reaches top of the stairs*.......why did I come upstairs again?
5. Quick envy, I smell *gasp* conflict! Get your head in the sand. *NAO.*:shocked:
6. *types "how to be assertive" on internet*
7. I'd do my homework on the last day of my life if that was the deadline.
8. I should be doing my homework now.
9. Actually, no, my keyboard here needs some cleaning.
10. ...Eh, too lazy to get up...
11.*zones out*...what was the deadline of that project again? I think the date had a number 6 in it...


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## Dangerose (Sep 30, 2014)

I've been meaning to try to respond to this thread for a while but I can't think of things that don't sound obvious or self-pitying or whatever

edit: And that is still the case!


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## Angina Jolie (Feb 13, 2014)

compulsiverambler said:


> At first, it was noticing and having pointed out to me that some of my traits are generally considered very un-Fivish, and together might indicate Nine instead. Namely: instantly open and receptive to anyone who starts talking to me, overly trusting, prone to minimising and putting positive-spin on problems, uncynical and annoyed by others' cynicism, strong tendency to give the benefit of the doubt and think up the most generous possible explanations for someone's bad behaviour, not being private by default about emotions or weaknesses, consistently give the benefit of the doubt and think up possible explanations for others' words and actions that would are as generous to their character and intentions as possible.
> 
> From as early as I can remember, I've been very reluctant to assert myself with people when our familiarity level is neither close family at one end of the spectrum nor strangers at the other (I'm fine with conflict with those two categories), because I feel like something very bad might happen.
> 
> ...


Hmm, understandable.
I again today noticed some integral 9 tendencies in myself today. It's mostly the - I know I enjoy this thing, I know it's intellectually and emotionally stimulating to me, but mehh, kinda don't wanna BE WITH IT fully. Just gonna indulge in activities that can distract enough of my senses at once so I don't have to mentally or emotionally connect to anything.
The situation was - I bought a magazine on geography topics, which I have always really loved, but when I came home I almost didn't want to want to read it and was postponing it even though I knew I was gonna be having fun and enjoying the content.
And I cannot explain why there was no drive for me to actually read it and distracting myself with mundane tv-shows that I'm actually not interested in seemed like a better idea.
This I think is the kinda self neglect that 9 is about. knowing that doing that you will be enjoying yourself and not something outside of yourself, and not doing it because.... because something....

To me it's usually either I completely neglect something like this or immerse myself into it so much that I fill up with uncontrollable energy and forget everything else and eventually become nervously scared from my own energy. It's like a feeling of loosing control. It's like with that happyness i mentioned earlier. In reality it's fear of loosing yourself by simply being yourself - loosing your idea of who you are, your ego. And 9s ego is the fear of having an ego, the fear of being. The fear that if I let myself enjoy this for too long, the big bad invisible hand of god is gonna come and take it away and pain will follow. So I'm just not gonna open myself to being to begin with.

Recently also came to a bit of an epiphany over why I and evidently possibly 9s have lost their connection to the holy love or the universe. I don't know if it's because you are born as a 9 (mainly have strong characteristics that lead you to the 9s fears and motives and give you the 9s filter view) or because you become one through upbringing. That doesn't matter. If it's the former than maybe we are creatures of great sensitivity, both sensory and other, so the world can become overwhelming. Including the emotional world. But for me personally - I know I've been hating the universe for a while. God or the universe, whom ever I held as responsible for my failures and mistreats in life. Because I realized how I have always been extremely understanding, able to see all sides. Therefore when someone mistreated me or when I felt like my needs are not met, when I am not receiving the attention any person needs, I could understand the people who weren't giving it to me, who left me alone. But the upsetness and the emotions were still there. Understanding didn't change the fact that I still wasn't seen enough or my needs weren't met. So I even remember being angry at the universe and blaming it, asking why does it hate me that I am simply left there experiencing everything bad without an actual reason for it. Because I argued that the people around me weren't the reason, they weren't at fault, I could see where they were coming from. But something had to be. So it must be something above us all. It must be God. I so remember saying to him - why are you doing this to me?

And so everything became pointless because everything would be taken away anyway. We don't deserve anything, God itself thinks so. God will take it away. I don't want anything, I don't need anything because the disappointment when its taken away for no reason is too great. So let me go to sleep to myself, my desires, my needs and joys because that way the pain of when the big, invisible hand that is above us all, that we cannot control, takes it all away, will not be felt. It is in control of everything but secretly I refuse it to be in control of my emotions because secretly I'm angry at him so I'm gonna play against him.... I'm gonna be in control of my emotions...


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## Angina Jolie (Feb 13, 2014)

e4envy said:


> 1. A turtle moves faster than me (monday mornings suck).
> 2. So passive I'd kiss up to a butterfly's ass if they had one.
> *3. You know that rock in my backyard? Yeah, we share the same personality.*
> 4. *Finally reaches top of the stairs*.......why did I come upstairs again?
> ...


Honey, I think you have far more personality than you think ^_^ this was funny


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## compulsiverambler (Jan 7, 2010)

Phoenix Virtue said:


> I've been meaning to try to respond to this thread for a while but I can't think of things that don't sound obvious or self-pitying or whatever


Oh go on, that's that's exactly what this thread is for! I wanna see a Two's answer. :cupcake:


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## compulsiverambler (Jan 7, 2010)

e4envy said:


> 1. A turtle moves faster than me (monday mornings suck).
> 2. So passive I'd kiss up to a butterfly's ass if they had one.
> 3. You know that rock in my backyard? Yeah, we share the same personality.
> 4. *Finally reaches top of the stairs*.......why did I come upstairs again?
> ...


Haha, you just perfectly described a form of Inattentive ADHD called Sluggish Cognitive Tempo. I would not be surprised if all people with that form of ADHD are Enneagram Nines, however, most Nines don't have SCT. I certainly don't, I'm as hyperactive as the Energizer Bunny, but then again as I said earlier, I might be a mistyped Seven.


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## Animal (May 29, 2012)

e4envy said:


> 1. A turtle moves faster than me (monday mornings suck).
> 2. So passive I'd kiss up to a butterfly's ass if they had one.
> 3. You know that rock in my backyard? Yeah, we share the same personality.
> 4. *Finally reaches top of the stairs*.......why did I come upstairs again?
> ...


LOL I read this post, and I thought "That is sooooo 9ish it's actually hilarious.. why is this person typing at 4?" Since you were so clearly making fun of your own 9ishness.

Then I realized you _DO_ type at 9 but your username is e4envy.

Hahah you got me there. You are awesome.


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## Animal (May 29, 2012)

compulsiverambler said:


> Haha, you just perfectly described a form of Inattentive ADHD called Sluggish Cognitive Tempo. I would not be surprised if all people with that form of ADHD are Enneagram Nines, however, most Nines don't have SCT. I certainly don't, I'm as hyperactive as the Energizer Bunny, but then again as I said earlier, I might be a mistyped Seven.


I have no insights on your personal typing, but I will tell you I know a 972 who is an energetic bunny.


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## SheWolf (Apr 17, 2015)

Something else that sucks about being a 6.


Trust. It's so damn hard. Because I perceive people as always being out to get me, to hurt me, especially if they try to get too close too fast. I keep everyone at a distance while glancing sideways and back. It's a defense mechanism. Like lift the anchor, ready the cannons, and release the sails because a storm is a'comin'


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