# Brains may be wired for addiction



## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

> Red areas show parts of the brain more active in drug users. Blue regions are abnormally decreased in drug users.
> 
> Abnormalities in the brain may make some people more likely to become drug addicts, according to scientists at the University of Cambridge.
> 
> ...


BBC News - Brains may be wired for addiction


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## snapdragons (Feb 1, 2011)

This doesn't surprise me. In a way, I think this is probably part of natural selection, as the people who are able to use self-control are more successful than those who succumb to their addictions.

And then there's cheese, with morpheme-like qualities. LOL!


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## Falling Leaves (Aug 18, 2011)

Of course our brains are wired for addiction - evolution works on a reward system where positive feelings are associated with things we should constantly be doing (e.g. sex, eating) and negative feelings are associated with things that we shouldn't ever be doing (e.g. walking into a lions den, sticking our hands into that flickering orange thing).


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## chestbuster (Dec 2, 2009)

Drug addiction? Blame it on evolution | COSMOS magazine


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## Waiting (Jul 10, 2011)

just what we need, another scapegoat shouting "You're not responsible for your own actions!"


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## wuliheron (Sep 5, 2011)

The ancient Greeks thought epileptics were possessed by the gods, in the middle ages they were thought to be possessed by demons, and a little over a century ago doctors insisted they were "acting out". Whether drug addicts should be allowed to run amok is not the issue, nor is whether they are "responsible" for their actions. The issue is that current treatments are little more effective then blood-letting with at best a 5% success rate and are based on archaic biases and outright bigotry.


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## Paradox of Vigor (Jul 7, 2010)

Waiting said:


> just what we need, another scapegoat shouting "You're not responsible for your own actions!"


Anyone who is stupid enough to say such a thing as that without prior knowledge of the human brain and its self-controlling abilities is just the kind of person stupid enough to become addicted.

The point is, fools will be fools... and no amount of logic will dissuade them. I do see your point though.


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## chestbuster (Dec 2, 2009)

Just because addiction has an evolutionary basis doesn't mean a person can't control it. We have plenty of instincts we don't act upon.


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## Obsidean (Mar 24, 2010)

This is a step in the right direction. Once people realize we are nothing but animals, humanity can finally move forward.


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## chestbuster (Dec 2, 2009)

Obsidean said:


> This is a step in the right direction. Once people realize we are nothing but animals, humanity can finally move forward.


Nothing could be truer


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## Waiting (Jul 10, 2011)

Paradox of Vigor said:


> Anyone who is stupid enough to say such a thing as that without prior knowledge of the human brain and its self-controlling abilities is just the kind of person stupid enough to become addicted.
> 
> The point is, fools will be fools... and no amount of logic will dissuade them. I do see your point though.


The human mind is my primary area of study and I'm still saying the same thing. Predisposition isn't predestination. Everyone has certain struggles to overcome. The amount of people who will justify their actions by research in a particular area or in this case "hard wiring" is tremendous, I myself have danced pretty close to that line in the past, but it is useless self-pacification and only causes indifference and learned helplessness toward the problem.

In contrast to what @*Obsidean* said and is entitled to believed, we are not animals, we are not driven entirely by instinct and desire. We have reason and understanding. Through those avenues, we need to make the conscious choices to do what is needed to better ourselves.


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## Paradox of Vigor (Jul 7, 2010)

Waiting said:


> The human mind is my primary area of study and I'm still saying the same thing. Predisposition isn't predestination. Everyone has certain struggles to overcome. The amount of people who will justify their actions by research in a particular area or in this case "hard wiring" is tremendous, I myself have danced pretty close to that line in the past, but it is useless self-pacification and only causes indifference and learned helplessness toward the problem.
> 
> In contrast to what @*Obsidean* said and is entitled to believed, we are not animals, we are not driven entirely by instinct and desire. We have reason and understanding. Through those avenues, we need to make the conscious choices to do what is needed to better ourselves.


I don't think contrary to that in any way. Perhaps I poorly worded my post but I was just trying to insinuate the certainty of yours. The forebrain is called a neocortex for a reason and I believe you know that. It's just surprising that other people don't.


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## Up and Away (Mar 5, 2011)

Yeah, they have a lot of research to do in this area..


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## Waiting (Jul 10, 2011)

Paradox of Vigor said:


> I don't think contrary to that in any way. Perhaps I poorly worded my post but I was just trying to insinuate the certainty of yours. The forebrain is called a neocortex for a reason and I believe you know that. It's just surprising that other people don't.


Oh I see, I partly misunderstood, Agreed.


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## Obsidean (Mar 24, 2010)

Waiting said:


> In contrast to what @*Obsidean* said and is entitled to believed, we are not animals, we are not driven entirely by instinct and desire. We have reason and understanding. Through those avenues, we need to make the conscious choices to do what is needed to better ourselves.


Yes, we have reason and understanding but this is all determined by our brain. Do people with severe alzheimers make conscious choices to better themselves? How about people who are suffering from a paranoid delusion?

It's funny I use to hate humanity when I believed we weren't animals and I was completely apathetic. Now however, I am completely the opposite. It's like my friend says "you shit, you eat, you're an animal".


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## AJ2011 (Jun 2, 2011)

skycloud86 said:


> BBC News - Brains may be wired for addiction


I'm always interested in the possibility of infinite loops in our brain, or the possibility to generate them through conditioning.



Obsidean said:


> Yes, we have reason and understanding but this is all determined by our brain. Do people with severe alzheimers make conscious choices to better themselves? How about people who are suffering from a paranoid delusion?
> 
> It's funny I use to hate humanity when I believed we weren't animals and I was completely apathetic. Now however, I am completely the opposite. It's like my friend says "you shit, you eat, you're an animal".


Why did you hate humanity when you believed humans weren't animals? Was it that you held humanity to a higher standard of some sort?

Now, when you are thinking we are animals, do you love, hate or are apathetic towards humanity?

I have used the argument that we have the potential to be special animals, i.e., we could choose an optimal (in some sense) path that may acknowledge and benefit all creatures. Therefore, if we are capable of doing so, why aren't we?


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## Waiting (Jul 10, 2011)

Obsidean said:


> Yes, we have reason and understanding but this is all determined by our brain. Do people with severe alzheimers make conscious choices to better themselves? How about people who are suffering from a paranoid delusion?
> 
> It's funny I use to hate humanity when I believed we weren't animals and I was completely apathetic. Now however, I am completely the opposite. It's like my friend says "you shit, you eat, you're an animal".


Those are diseases which literally cause your brain to deteriorate. This in essence is talking about predisposition which is very different. Yes we like animals shit and eat, like pretty much everything else alive as well, but does an animal ever refer to a higher moral code and think "I shouldn't do that it wouldn't be right" or "I really want to do this, but can see how if I do A it will affect B in the future so I'm not going to." Animals will continue to do something until a repeated punishment deters them. We may completely stop a habit or behavior in an instant with no conditioning based on a single thought or observation. Going back to my original post, I can agree that it would leave me more contented to just say "hey we're animals, we can't help it," but it just isn't so.


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## entpIdeas (Jun 6, 2011)

Obsidean said:


> This is a step in the right direction. Once people realize we are nothing but animals, humanity can finally move forward.


Agreed. This knowledge allows for compassion and acceptance. It doesn't excuse individual choice, it simply explains it. I've met very few people that see things this way.


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## strawberryLola (Sep 19, 2010)

Since we're talking about animals and instincts: Empathy and Pro-social Behavior in Rats


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## entpIdeas (Jun 6, 2011)

strawberryLola said:


> Since we're talking about animals and instincts: Empathy and Pro-social Behavior in Rats
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## entpIdeas (Jun 6, 2011)

Animals are conditioned by their environment just as humans, seems there is little that is innate. I've learned more about behavior from observing animals than in a lifetime of observing humans.


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## drowninthefear (Apr 26, 2011)

Waiting said:


> Those are diseases which literally cause your brain to deteriorate. This in essence is talking about predisposition which is very different. Yes we like animals shit and eat, like pretty much everything else alive as well, but does an animal ever refer to a higher moral code and think "I shouldn't do that it wouldn't be right" or "I really want to do this, but can see how if I do A it will affect B in the future so I'm not going to." Animals will continue to do something until a repeated punishment deters them. We may completely stop a habit or behavior in an instant with no conditioning based on a single thought or observation. Going back to my original post, I can agree that it would leave me more contented to just say "hey we're animals, we can't help it," but it just isn't so.


I have to ask, do you personally know any drug addicts? And how many have gotten clean and sober just on pure will? Because from what I'm aware of, it takes rehabilitation, intervention, criminal punishment, divorce, social services, etc. In general, it's something that takes time and plenty of reconditioning.

Here's a variant of a quote that's very well known in AA/NA: "Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Does that sound like people just get clean and sober in an instant?

While I do agree with you that people are responsible for there own actions. Of course they are. These studies should not be brushed aside and labeled scapegoating when they are very important in trying to understand the motivation, prevention, and treatment of said addicts.

And as much as it hurts my vegetarian head to say this, there's a reason scientists experiment on animals. We are much more alike than people would initially think.


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## Waiting (Jul 10, 2011)

drowninthefear said:


> I have to ask, do you personally know any drug addicts? And how many have gotten clean and sober just on pure will? Because from what I'm aware of, it takes rehabilitation, intervention, criminal punishment, divorce, social services, etc. In general, it's something that takes time and plenty of reconditioning.
> 
> Here's a variant of a quote that's very well known in AA/NA: "Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Does that sound like people just get clean and sober in an instant?
> 
> ...


I actually know 3 drug addicts, two of which did exactly that, they left their respective poisons cold turkey. The third I strongly suspect the same, but I have not inquired about it to her. All three are very strong willed people that I look up to in various ways. We are only like animals if we allow ourselves to be. An animal will continue to drink a toxic substance repeatedly until it dies. Many humans will do the same, but the difference is we have reason and the ability to decide its the end. Many people benefit from therapy of sorts, many people also relapse after therapy. It can definitely aid you a great deal, but it can't make the choice for you.

I agree that the study may improve treatments which is definately a good thing, but the title and some of the information listed is extremely misleading.

"Prof Les Iversen, from the department of pharmacology at the University of Oxford, said: "These new findings reinforce the view that the propensity to addiction is dependent on inherited differences in brain circuitry, and offer the possibility of new ways of treating high-risk individuals to develop better 'self control'." 

Maybe it's just me, but the choice of words in that part bothers me a lot.


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## drowninthefear (Apr 26, 2011)

Waiting said:


> I actually know 3 drug addicts, two of which did exactly that, they left their respective poisons cold turkey. The third I strongly suspect the same, but I have not inquired about it to her. All three are very strong willed people that I look up to in various ways. We are only like animals if we allow ourselves to be. An animal will continue to drink a toxic substance repeatedly until it dies. Many humans will do the same, but the difference is we have reason and the ability to decide its the end. Many people benefit from therapy of sorts, many people also relapse after therapy. It can definitely aid you a great deal, but it can't make the choice for you.
> 
> I agree that the study may improve treatments which is definately a good thing, but the title and some of the information listed is extremely misleading.
> 
> ...


Here's what I'm getting at. Your examples are circumstantial but that does not mean it applies to _every_ addict. Also, from an outsider point of view it may seem like sheer will power made them stop using but there was more to it than that. There was some underlying reason that jump-started their recovery and that reason was most likely punishment or perhaps fear of punishment (and/or loss). 

Also, we are taught from a young age that our actions have consequence, reason is not embedding in our brain at birth. 

You can't compare 2-3 people you know and say all addicts and humans have the exact same amount of will power. If that's the case, I can sit here from my subjective view point and tell you I know X amount of addicts who got clean after _years_ of trial and error. And X amount of them did not and are still addicts. But again it's just circumstantial and subjective.

I applaud your friends' will power and success, but to say that ‘it really is that simple’ would be a lie and a generalization for all addicts. 



Brains may be wired for addiction said:


> Prof Les Iversen, from the department of pharmacology at the University of Oxford, said: "These new findings reinforce the view that the propensity to addiction is dependent on inherited differences in brain circuitry, and offer the possibility of new ways of treating high-risk individuals to develop better 'self control'.


I hope you realize there's a distinct difference between a drug addict and a drug user, those two things are not mutually exclusive. Addiction and self-control (will power) are completely polar. That's what the study is reinforcing. Addiction is easy, learning to exercise 'self-control' (what breaks the addiction) is the hard part. Therefore by considering that addicts have the propensity to addiction based on brain circuitry, we can may prevent 'high-risk' individual (aka addicts) from using again and better their chances for long term recovery.

And I completely understand your point, btw. Yes, unfortunately a lot of people can misinterpret information and use it as a scapegoat to not take responsibility for there own actions. But I can guarantee you that was not the intention of the study. This type of information is immensely valuable to anyone in a effort to better understand human nature and behavior, and perhaps to show a little compassion and not pass judgement.


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## Waiting (Jul 10, 2011)

drowninthefear said:


> Here's what I'm getting at. Your examples are circumstantial but that does not mean it applies to _every_ addict. Also, from an outsider point of view it may seem like sheer will power made them stop using but there was more to it than that. There was some underlying reason that jump-started their recovery and that reason was most likely punishment or perhaps fear of punishment (and/or loss).
> 
> Also, we are taught from a young age that our actions have consequence, reason is not embedding in our brain at birth.
> 
> ...


I only read up to the first line of the second paragraph, you clearly ignored what I said and disregarded what I meant so I'm going to do the same, cya.


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## drowninthefear (Apr 26, 2011)

Waiting said:


> I only read up to the first line of the second paragraph, you clearly ignored what I said and disregarded what I meant so I'm going to do the same, cya.


I did not disregard your implication. If you had finished reading my reply, you would have seen that.


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## Waiting (Jul 10, 2011)

drowninthefear said:


> I did not disregard your implication. If you had finished reading my reply, you would have seen that.


I read your post. I do not want to take the time to reword mine to you, because it seems you interpreted much of it differently than what I said. If it is any help, I don't make implications. I speak directly to avoid confusion; what I wrote/said is exactly what I meant 99% of the time and this falls into that percentile. What you draw past that is JUST that, your own conclusion. Among other things, condescension like this is a real turn off:



drowninthefear said:


> I hope you realize there's a distinct difference between a drug addict and a drug user,...


If you really thought my intelligence is relative to a 12 yr old you wouldn't be talking to me so its either ignorance or strategy. In either case, I've said enough.


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## drowninthefear (Apr 26, 2011)

Waiting said:


> I read your post. I do not want to take the time to reword mine to you, because it seems you interpreted much of it differently than what I said. If it is any help, I don't make implications. I speak directly to avoid confusion; what I wrote/said is exactly what I meant 99% of the time and this falls into that percentile. What you draw past that is JUST that, your own conclusion. Among other things, condescension like this is a real turn off:
> 
> If you really thought my intelligence is relative to a 12 yr old you wouldn't be talking to me so its either ignorance or strategy. In either case, I've said enough.


People unwilling (not unable) to look past their own opinion, I’ve come to learn, has little to do with intelligence. If my wording is condescending, I’m sorry? I don’t know what to tell you other than, on the internet, almost everything sounds that way. That wasn’t my intention and I'm sorry for any misunderstanding/misinterpretation.

And I was referring to your posts (collectively) as an implication as to what you meant; not that you weren’t making your point clear. Just because someone doesn’t agree with you, it doesn’t mean their disregarding your point of view. If you’re not open to debate, call it a disagreement for the sake of different opinion and be done with it.


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## Dope Amine (Feb 16, 2012)

drowninthefear said:


> I have to ask, do you personally know any drug addicts? And how many have gotten clean and sober just on pure will? Because from what I'm aware of, it takes rehabilitation, intervention, criminal punishment, divorce, social services, etc. In general, it's something that takes time and plenty of reconditioning.


Criminal punishment is an absolutely counterproductive way to deal with addiction. Decriminalization, harm reduction, and rehabilitation is the most effective method of coping with/treating addiction. I know many addicts who quit using sheer will. In fact I don't know an addict that didn't quit by sheer will. You can go to every jail, AA, NA, and hospital on the planet but if you don't have the will to quit... Well your gonna be addicted for a long time. 

Check out Dr. Gabor Mate if you are interested in addiction.

Taming the Hungry Ghost: A Biopsychosocial View of Addiction; Awakening to Conscious Co-Creation:
hwcdn . net/t9f2y9d8/cds/7thwave/010695/tongue033110.mp3

drgabormate . com


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## drowninthefear (Apr 26, 2011)

Dope Amine said:


> Criminal punishment is an absolutely counterproductive way to deal with addiction. Decriminalization, harm reduction, and rehabilitation is the most effective method of coping with/treating addiction. I know many addicts who quit using sheer will. In fact I don't know an addict that didn't quit by sheer will. You can go to every jail, AA, NA, and hospital on the planet but if you don't have the will to quit... Well your gonna be addicted for a long time.
> 
> Check out Dr. Gabor Mate if you are interested in addiction.
> 
> ...


I'm quite aware that you can't help someone unless they want to change. That wasn't my point. It was more along the lines that addiction and will power are polar opposites. Also, I'm quite familiar with addiction. Maybe not by first hand experience, but definitely by moral support. Thanks for the information rec.


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