# ESFJ or ENFJ?



## Dangerose (Sep 30, 2014)

Ok sorry but I'm really trying to decide if I'm an ESFJ or an ENFJ so I made a video so if you're really bored or something you can try typing me. Sorry if I seem to be flailing my arms around a lot. Apparently webcams have that effect on me.
If you don't want to watch the video, I would be thankful for some practical advice on how to tell apart an ESFJ and an ENFJ. Not "do you use Si or Se" or anything of the sort because that's why I can't type myself, but more specific things like "If someone comes to you in crisis will you first...." or something of the sort. I have thought and overthought all the theoretical points so much that it seems I use all of them and none of them at the same time.
Thanks in advance if you have any input!


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## eb44345 (Mar 9, 2014)

I watched your video. It's hard to tell. I would guess ESFJ. If you want you can try my personality type quiz and see what you get there: Personality Type Quiz


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## Dangerose (Sep 30, 2014)

eb44345 said:


> I watched your video. It's hard to tell. I would guess ESFJ. If you want you can try my personality type quiz and see what you get there: Personality Type Quiz


Thank you!
I got ISTP on your quiz. I don't think that's very likely overall, but I do want to say that I really liked your test...I don't know how accurate it is, but the questions were much easier to answer than the tests that say something broad and vague like "Do you concentrate on the big picture or the little details"?


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## eb44345 (Mar 9, 2014)

I'm still working on making it better. It's kind of hard to build something that works for such a complicated thing. It's a work in progress.


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## westlose (Oct 9, 2014)

Well ...
You really look like an ESFJ, I agree with eb44345.

I don't know, you have this ESFJ vibe. And I don't think that ENFJ can mistype themselves as ESFJ.
ENFJ are somewhat "slow", but you have this Ne agitation.

If I remember well, in your previous post I typed you as an ISFJ ? So I guess ESFJ is my new typing.
Look at this post if you want to tell apart S and N.

Edit :
If you are still unsure, I have a question : How do you manage money ?


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## Dangerose (Sep 30, 2014)

eb44345 said:


> I'm still working on making it better. It's kind of hard to build something that works for such a complicated thing. It's a work in progress.


Absolutely. That's a huge undertaking, but I'm definitely a fan of your approach. Best of luck))


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## Dangerose (Sep 30, 2014)

westlose said:


> Well ...
> You really look like an ESFJ, I agree with eb44345.
> 
> I don't know, you have this ESFJ vibe. And I don't think that ENFJ can mistype themselves as ESFJ.
> ...


Thank you! (and yes by the way, you did)
How I manage money . . . very badly. I try to save money of course but a good portion of the time I forget that I have such a goal and I will buy things I don't need . . . and occasionally if I am upset or something I will buy something very expensive. But I do keep my head above water -- I make a point of never borrowing money and I'm fairly thrifty in everyday matters.

If you mean, what is my organizational strategy for dealing with my money, then I keep a notebook with all my expenses and such, nothing fancy.


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## eb44345 (Mar 9, 2014)

Some ways to tell the difference....

One way to tell the difference between ESFJ and ENFJ is their learning styles, for example how they go about studying for a test. The ESFJ will rely on memorization a lot more than the ENFJ who will try to look for patterns. In general the ESFJ will spend a lot more time studying while the ENFJ will look for shortcuts.

ESFJs take better care of their appearance. I know several ESFJs in real life, and just one ENFJ. The ESFJs look good. The ENFJ looks slobby.

ESFJs are risk-adverse compared to ENFJs. ENFJs would prefer to be an entrepreneur if they could.

ENFJs are universalists while ESFJs are tribalist. What that means is that the ENFJ usually has plans for how to help EVERYONE. They have huge hearts for humanity as a whole. ESFJs are extremely loyal to those in their life that they care about. ESFJs are much more protective of those close to them against "outsiders."

ESFJs will be interested in things like hanging out with friends, planning weddings, cooking, cleaning the house, etc. ENFJs will be interested in things like philosophy, history, psychology, politics, etc.

ENFJs have Ni/Se, so they are much more focused and competitive than ESFJs who have Si/Ne.

Hope some of that helps.


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## Dangerose (Sep 30, 2014)

Thanks!
That should have helped but I still feel torn because:
1. I have no idea how I study. I usually . . . don't? Maybe? But sometimes I do but it's pretty much only to have a feeling like "I'm studying, I'm so studious" and it doesn't actually help...but then, I do copy things and repeat them, I like the feeling of that sort of rote learning (although I learn BETTER if I just think about it)
2. In what way though? Like, on the one hand I care about my appearance in that I try to buy nice clothes and to diet and try to look ok but on the other hand I don't for example spend that much time getting ready in the morning (like, half an hour in opposition to some friends of mine who literally take hours) and sometimes I feel like a huge pig, I'll just throw together whatever clothes are nearest and stuff.
3. Ok yes I am definitely risk-adverse
4. Again I don't know because ideally I care about everyone and I do on some level but of course I care more about people I am close to. Sometimes I do fall into a tribalist mentality I suppose, but sometimes I go all hippie and try to plan an end to world hunger. I would guess I lean more tribalist though.
5. Definitely with the ESFJs there although of course sometimes I like the later topics.
6. I am only motivated by competition...

Ok sorry I'm not trying to be difficult...I should probably just choose a type at once and stick with it even if it's wrong))
Thanks again for the advice...this is quite helpful.


eb44345 said:


> Some ways to tell the difference....
> 
> One way to tell the difference between ESFJ and ENFJ is their learning styles, for example how they go about studying for a test. The ESFJ will rely on memorization a lot more than the ENFJ who will try to look for patterns. In general the ESFJ will spend a lot more time studying while the ENFJ will look for shortcuts.
> 
> ...


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## quaestio (Sep 24, 2014)

I don't know if I can help you, but I have an ENFJ sister and an ESFJ mother, so I've had plenty of opportunities to consider the differences. But since this will be a highly personalised thing, just know that these are the specifics of my family members, and that those specifics are partially defined by how I relate to them (daughter, younger sister) - I'm a variable in the equation and my thoughts are probably not "pure" because of that. It might not apply to you, or indeed, to anyone but them. It may easily be a flawed understanding that I have. I'm still rather new to MBTI and JCF and I'm refining my understanding often, so I'd encourage you to take this with salt. But here it is as I understand it:

I could go into a "my mother is more [adjective] than [adjective] and for the ENFJ it's the other way around"... _but_ I fear I'd just be repeating clichés that you've already heard and dissected yourself until they start to lose meaning. So I'll ramble in a more personal way and maybe something significant will stick out to you.

First off, the Fe they share is a major thing and it's going to create some similarities in focus even if the way it is expressed can be somewhat different at times. Fe is, as I see it, a gravity in the realm of social ethics and that kind of thing. Fe is the heavyweight champion of that, and I can try and fight that pull with my own, but I never can win. It's pretty amazing from both types. And, although Fe might not appreciate such a description as "calculated", that's how I see it - but this really isn't a moral judgement either way, for the record. And it doesn't mean it isn't genuine either, but both my mother and sister have a kind of calculation about how they use their dominant function that is very apparent to me. [And I would guess this is where some Fi-types see "fakeness", not understanding that the genuine nature of dominant Fe lies in a different place to that of Fi.]

Where a major difference in the use of this calculation comes in is that... the ESFJ is more direct! In order to achieve an objective Fe decides is important, she's probably going to be much more direct (often in a verbal or practical, structured way) than the ENFJ, who is more subtle. There are positive and negative aspects to both approaches - there's no inherent superiority in subtlety regarding either the process or result, and directness has its own pitfalls as well as advantages. If examples help:

When we were young, I looked up to my sister a great deal (not much has changed there haha). I craved the approval of someone so awesome and made that known to her in all the kid sister ways such as mimicking her, following her, and all that embarrassing stuff. She was very harsh to me, bullying me verbally and physically and such. As adults, she admitted to me that her reasoning for doing so was not because she hated me or anything like that. It was because she thought that my idolisation of her could lead to me "turning out like her": she had to make me want to reject her in order to stop me from becoming her. 

I'm not even saying an ESFJ couldn't have the same or similar line of reasoning, but at the same time, I don't know that I can imagine my mother doing that - hurting someone in order to nurture them. She can be very blunt in order to help people, it's true, but again, it's direct, more of something that creates an immediate affect than a manipulation of the scenario in order to create an outcome. One of her favourite phrases is "I tell it like it is", which reveals a lot about her way of approaching things, I think. (In actual fact, she tells it how she sees it, which is not _necessarily_ how it is, and it annoys me that she has trouble appreciating the distinction, but that's a separate point.) Unquestionably, she makes many sacrifices for others, but there's a kind of funnelling of the wisdom of her experiences and concern with practicality and utility that comes to bear in that. I don't know if I have any particular example here, though. But I would say that the concerns of the ENFJ and ESFJ seem very different to me - and, indeed, to each other - at times. I believe that they both project versions of themselves in order to create changes in the Fe realm, but how it is for them both... it's different. But I have some doubts on whether I could adequately convey how I view the difference or even to illustrate this concept in case it's not clear what I mean by the projection of selves, since communication isn't my strong point, so I'll move on.

Another similarity that becomes difference is how they both make friends wherever they go. I've been on holiday with both of them, and they will inevitably collect new friends also staying at the hotel. You can't fight it. It will happen. But the information they collect and where they set their focus. It's different. Not entirely. To say that the ENFJs data that she collects is _entirely_ different would be wrong... but the ENFJ focuses more on the essence of the person, while the ESFJ focuses more on specific situation things, and the things that have happened in life. Character revealed through inner being and perhaps values versus character revealed through experiences and preferences.

I think this is one of the aspects that leads people to conclude that Sensors are superficial and iNtuitives aren't. If you just look at the information collected, I guess you could come to that conclusion. "The ENFJ is seeking a deeper connection! Deepness! Only Ns want that, just look at the S here and you can see! Deepness fyeah!" But, ah, as you can probably tell, I have a lot of disdain for viewing it that way... because, ironically, it's not seeing the whole of the person and what is actually going on.

An ESFJ craves deep connection to people. Of course she does - she's a Fe-dom! She'll love more temporary and varied connections as well, but life won't be rich without some people she truly connects to. The thing is, she gets to deepness more slowly than the ENFJ does, because the way that they find deepness is different. They both care about it, but it's different. An ENFJ would start with her Ni, which is perception that goes beyond and behind what objectively is (Se) to see what truly is that isn't apparent (in service of Fe, it means insights - aha moments - into people ^^). An ESFJ starts with her Si, a data collection function that uses details to create a whole picture (Ne) and trusts and cares about experience and those details. Both will gain insight into who people are and be interested in that. But Ni is a really swag telescope you look through that doesn't take so long to set up, though it will become more accurate with time because you still need to focus it or move it to look at something another way; meanwhile, Si is a really swag building that takes commitment and time to construct, it forms a base and just builds and builds until all that knowledge forms an ever-adapting store of understanding. And they can both reach the same conclusions about things, as well, even if the way is different.

Another reason it can be slower, at least in the case of my ESFJ and ENFJ, is that the ENFJ goes almost all-in, all at once. The ESFJ has something of this tendency as well ("Why are you confiding generalities of my private medical information to random strangers, Mum?" It's nothing harmful, but not very private either), but she is way more guarded. I know that sounds negative, but it has benefits to her. Her tertiary Ne creates a kind of suspicion and indeed a knowledge that not everything is always as it appears, and her Si wants to gather more data before it decides to truly trust. But once it trusts? I don't see any impediment there to having a deep relationship with someone, to share what's important to the ESFJ and to the other person - I really don't. (And I guess I'm talking about this partly because I've seen stereotyping that would suggest the contrary.)

The ENFJs strategy is the other way around: she'll show most of her cards to someone, and then see what happens. If the person doesn't stick around, they weren't worth it. She always wants them to be worth it. She always hopes and in fact totally believes they are, because she perceives the good in them quickly (or else, she wouldn't have confided in them at all), but sometimes that good that she sees can't stretch the whole way and people hurt her. This looks to our ESFJ like naivete and a lack of a grasp of actual reality that is going to get her hurt, because, well, it does get her hurt. The reality is, it hurts her. So the ESFJ thinks, "Why not change your approach?" It looks to the ESFJ like she isn't learning from experiential reality and modifying her approach to be better, to be a little more guarded, more discerning next time, and that can be kind of infuriating because experiential learning is the main way the ESFJ rolls, and because the ESFJ truly cares and doesn't want the ENFJ to get hurt. But the bigger hurt for my sister would be to hide many of her cards and reveal them slowly, only to have the other person say "I don't like those cards" after knowing them and being connected to them for years (such a thing would hurt anyone of course, but the ENFJ thinks "I'll show them much of my hand so this is less likely to happen, and because I trust my insight that they're someone I want to know" and the ESFJ thinks "I've got to be careful to avoid other people's potential to hurt me so I need to be sure they are someone I want to know and that insight will take time to form but it will be trustworthy when it does"). My sister's openness is both and as much a defence mechanism as a way of perceiving and connecting as the ESFJ's more deliberated, detailed approach is, too. 

In conclusion, both types will find depth and love their connections to others. There's no doubt that Ni-Se is cool. But Si-Ne has its own coolness, as well. They both have their strengths (and accompanying weaknesses) and their own ways of insight which can be very accurate, and the things that they totally ignore and make a hash of as well.  And nobody only uses Sensing, or only uses iNtuition. If you're an ESFJ, your tertiary will come into its own if it hasn't already, I assure you. I see this with my mother every day. She and my sister may perceive a different reality, but they both have ways they can help each other, and my sister has gained much from following the advice of my mother. I know I've already said I admire the ENFJ - well I admire the ESFJ, too. She is the strongest person I know, unquestionably.

I don't know if this helps you at all, ahaha. =) Feel free to ask me questions if you have any you think I can answer. I definitely have more thoughts, but I probably should have stopped paragraphs ago... And I watched your video and the only thoughts I have are that I'm leaning more in the direction of ESFJ at the moment, but that ultimately it doesn't help me, especially not with your views on what a Sensing preference is seeming to match up with "having a functioning pair of eyes and ears and using them often" which is... yeah. (Okay, that's a bad simplification of your actual words, but it's kind of the general common thread between what you were saying and what I see said about a Sensing preference by some people imo.) What do I know? But I'd guess that's _not_ what a Sensing preference is. No offence to you meant by that, of course, and I wish you well with finding your type.

Yeah, I'm just going to send this now... Fly, my pretty!


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## Dangerose (Sep 30, 2014)

quaestio said:


> I don't know if I can help you, but I have an ENFJ sister and an ESFJ mother, so I've had plenty of opportunities to consider the differences. But since this will be a highly personalised thing, just know that these are the specifics of my family members, and that those specifics are partially defined by how I relate to them (daughter, younger sister) - I'm a variable in the equation and my thoughts are probably not "pure" because of that. It might not apply to you, or indeed, to anyone but them. It may easily be a flawed understanding that I have. I'm still rather new to MBTI and JCF and I'm refining my understanding often, so I'd encourage you to take this with salt. But here it is as I understand it:
> 
> I could go into a "my mother is more [adjective] than [adjective] and for the ENFJ it's the other way around"... _but_ I fear I'd just be repeating clichés that you've already heard and dissected yourself until they start to lose meaning. So I'll ramble in a more personal way and maybe something significant will stick out to you.
> 
> ...


Oh gosh, that story with your sister is really sad! 
That did help, thank you. The specific, situational examples really help me get a better picture of how the types work. 
Yes, I think I had not really understood sensing, because, yeah, all I was really getting there was "you sense..." But I think I have finally settled on being ESFJ. ) (and have a better grasp on what that actually means) I think I'd been initially inclined to choose ENFJ because all the stereotypes for ESFJ were like 'cheer captain/overbearing mother' and I really wasn't all that excited to join that club) But looking at what you said about your mother, for example, made a lot of sense. I especially liked what you said here: "I don't know that I can imagine my mother doing that - hurting someone in order to nurture them. She can be very blunt in order to help people, it's true, but again, it's direct, more of something that creates an immediate affect than a manipulation of the scenario in order to create an outcome." It makes a lot of sense, I tend to be very direct, and that's one of the things that first made me think that ENFJ probably wasn't the right fit for me -- I'm not sure I have that sort of long-term strategy in me. I mean, I think I've tried that sort of thing before and immediately ruined it by explaining what I was doing)) 
Thank you again)


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## quaestio (Sep 24, 2014)

Oswin said:


> Oh gosh, that story with your sister is really sad!
> That did help, thank you. The specific, situational examples really help me get a better picture of how the types work.
> Yes, I think I had not really understood sensing, because, yeah, all I was really getting there was "you sense..." But I think I have finally settled on being ESFJ. ) (and have a better grasp on what that actually means) I think I'd been initially inclined to choose ENFJ because all the stereotypes for ESFJ were like 'cheer captain/overbearing mother' and I really wasn't all that excited to join that club) But looking at what you said about your mother, for example, made a lot of sense. I especially liked what you said here: "I don't know that I can imagine my mother doing that - hurting someone in order to nurture them. She can be very blunt in order to help people, it's true, but again, it's direct, more of something that creates an immediate affect than a manipulation of the scenario in order to create an outcome." It makes a lot of sense, I tend to be very direct, and that's one of the things that first made me think that ENFJ probably wasn't the right fit for me -- I'm not sure I have that sort of long-term strategy in me. I mean, I think I've tried that sort of thing before and immediately ruined it by explaining what I was doing))
> Thank you again)


Yeah, it is. I just try to tell my sister the amazing person I see her as and support her, and it's all I can do really. ^^

That's great! It sounded like that was the kind of info you were after. I'm probably a Si/Ne or Ne/Si type myself and I can relate.

It's really prevalent around here, though for sure there are individuals who don't understand Sensing that way, but they aren't necessarily the verbal ones, so it's understandable. I'm so glad I could help you grasp the difference better - as you say, the stereotypes really make it so that we view things through a fog of sorts, and it can be so off-putting and prevent true understanding. In other words, some people think of the sun and it is powerful and penetrating and bright and right at the centre, it gives us life and lights our days. And then they for some reason decide that the other stars in the sky are lesser or just "boring", forgetting that the stars light the way through darkness, they give us a greater sense of our place in the universe in a way that's humbling, if we would stop to look. That's not supposed to be any kind of indicator of where I think ENFJ/ESFJ strengths lie, btw, but rather it's an illustration of how the light of who we are can be different and yet equally valuable and illuminating, and that it all depends upon perspective. Types are types, but also, so much more - we're people. Individuals.

Anyway, you're quite welcome! Happy ESFJ-ing.


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