# Women: do you pursue?



## susurration (Oct 22, 2009)

timeless said:


> I'm confused about the last option. "I'm generally a guy"? I'm specifically a guy. I don't know if this applies to me or not.


That was a joke :mellow:



MisterNi said:


> This obviously has to do with who gets to be top/bottom. Obviously.


Exactly. 



Thracius said:


> the question is, would women really want a man who let them approach him ?
> 
> frankly, I'm often disgusted by girls who pursue me, I just want them to sort of hang out until I arrive


On your first question, I can only speak for myself, but yes. 

Why are you disgusted by girls who pursue you? 



Perseus said:


> For a man making the first move, the problem is violence from other men. This can happen accidently. I was ambushed and nearly kicked to death for just being in the same pub as his wife, without even talking to her or even noticing she was there. And that was four days after the non-event.
> 
> So nowadays, I am very careful. I won't go to strange places without an armed guard. And as for talking to girls, this is out of the question, without a formal introduction. Occasionally, I risk it and get threatened by Guards.
> 
> Formal introductions are a bit tricky as this usually means that someone is fed up with their girlfriend and after using her, wants to offload her on to another mug.


I think that's an interesting point. I suppose women can also be subject to violence against other women in similar scenarios involving jealously and misconstrued intentions, but with women it's probably more likely to be in the form of verbal abuse, rather than physical violence. How DO you avoid a situation like this? and how commonly do you experience this type of thing? 



OrangeAppled said:


> No, I am much too shy. This is why I've never dated someone I was really interested in...I tend to date whoever pursues me.
> 
> I think it's great that other women feel comfortable initiating though. For me, it's not a gender issue so much as timidity and general obliviousness as to how to go about these things. I admit that I do like it when a man can show initiative; it says something to me about his personality, and I'm not sure that deep down I want to pursue, even if I felt more confident in my flirting skills. I know a lot of women initiate with subtle signs instead of a direct approach, but even my signals are poor - I tend to want to run away from someone I find attractive.


What if the man of your dreams is a little shy and approaches 'dating' like yourself? would you work through your shyness if you met someone you really wanted to pursue, and they weren't taking the initiative? it makes me a little sad to see that you've never dated someone you've really liked  



murderegina said:


> Yes definitely. The pressure of keeping in touch leaves me feeling confused and reckless because I never know when the light for the other person goes from green to yellow to red. Normally I'm perceptive of the vibes people put out, until it's romantic..then I always assume the worst. In retrospect, I've probably made relationship possibilities short lived for sheer fear, the feeling might not be mutual. I'd rather avoid a situation involving rejection, than wait and play it by ear.


I believe this is often how guys feel when they are doing the pursuing too. I think perhaps if you perceive that there is no such thing as a 'perfect dater' i.e. someone who can read signals perfectly and make perfect moves, and that he is probably feeling as uncertain as you are, it may help to take the pressure off. I totally get what you're saying about rejection, and it is incredibly hard to push past. But someone has to bite the bullet eventually, if anything is going to happen I guess. Usually it's the guy. 
I don't know, I have always tended to like introverted men, and I never wanted to leave the initiating up to them. I don't really expect them to do the work, considering men don't really pursue me  I have a feeling it's because most of my mutual attractions have been with introverts... and the eye flirting thing lasts for months. Doing the pursuing has never been a waste of my time either. Dating the kinda shy guy who didn't make the first move, has for me, typically ended up in a fruitful relationship.


----------



## thehigher (Apr 20, 2009)

I like it when girls pursue. I think whether or not you like to pursue has a lot more to do with type than gender. Yes I am a man.... but naturally I am just not the one to initiate things. If you want me to.... I won't be being myself. I think it's Ok either way. And yea sure I like being on the bottom xD but.... if I feel comfortable with you I can manage the other. I get tired of people really... honeslty thinking this all has to do with gender. I know a lot of guys that love it when women initiate or open the door for them... course they would never say it for the deep seated fear of being called gay or made fun of. There are a lot of men out there that will literally punish you for not fitting in the gender role. Funny thing is.... I am deathly attracted to women.... not gay at all.... but somehow liking girls that pursue and not minding being the emotional one in the relationship makes me "gay". Another funny thing is ... most of the people that do call you gay or look down on you because of this.... are more insecure, not aware of their emotions, and just plain not honest with themselves. There was one guy that called me effeminate one time for being attracted to women who were in control.... we later found out he was ashamed of feeling the same way.


----------



## beth x (Mar 4, 2010)

Shannonline said:


> A big no for me, for one I rarely leave the house instead preferring to sit at home sulking wondering why I feel so alone. I usually freak out if someone does approach me, a big part of me is too defensive and another wonders how anyone could find me attractive on any level. And I think this 'tactic' crosses over into a lot of other parts of my life, like my friends and family. Even people online. I pursue no one, I have one contact on MSN for example.
> Ok sure I'll speak to just my mum most everyday but that doesn't count, and my MSN contact who is more like a brother. I've had one brief incounter with one guy in the past three years (he approached me). And I consider myself lucky if I catch up with a friend once every two months. oh.... so yeah in short: no.
> wow I'm uber lame ..more than I realised lol


Twins in that sense:blushed:


----------



## murderegina (Jan 7, 2010)

NatalieAnne said:


> I believe this is often how guys feel when they are doing the pursuing too. I think perhaps if you perceive that there is no such thing as a 'perfect dater' i.e. someone who can read signals perfectly and make perfect moves, and that he is probably feeling as uncertain as you are, it may help to take the pressure off. I totally get what you're saying about rejection, and it is incredibly hard to push past. But someone has to bite the bullet eventually, if anything is going to happen I guess. Usually it's the guy.
> I don't know, I have always tended to like introverted men, and I never wanted to leave the initiating up to them. I don't really expect them to do the work, considering men don't really pursue me  I have a feeling it's because most of my mutual attractions have been with introverts... and the eye flirting thing lasts for months. Doing the pursuing has never been a waste of my time either. Dating the kinda shy guy who didn't make the first move, has for me, typically ended up in a fruitful relationship.




How did you go about pursuing them? What signs of reciprocation did you look for? I think such a majority of people are frightened of rejection that even when we like someone we act indifferent. At least, I know my female friends do that. Do males? Where is the happy medium where everyone confesses their crushes? I've also wondered why do men ask women on dates if they don't plan on pursuing a relationship from the get go? Sex would be my guess..but I find men keep dating you even if you're not having sex and don't plan to. What is that stage called? Limbo. 


Wow I asked a lot of questions! If anyone has insight...appreciated


----------



## agokcen (Jan 3, 2010)

Ugh...pursuing...

I don't mind the idea of pursuing _in principle_, but, in action, it sucks. So much effort...so much risk...so much scariness...bleh!

In other words, I'm just a chicken. :frustrating: I admire those women who do have the guts to do the pursuing.


----------



## thehigher (Apr 20, 2009)

> I think such a majority of people are frightened of rejection that even when we like someone we act indifferent. At least, I know my female friends do that. Do males?


Yes ... yes we do. Ever walk in a room with a bunch of guys and they ignore you and look like they don't care about your presence at all? Meh we're all just being insecure cause we don't know how to act. Big thing males do is ignore. Some of us are even mean because we think you like it when we are assholes.... and indeed some of you do.... but it's really just a bunch of neuroticism in one room. 



> Where is the happy medium where everyone confesses their crushes? I've also wondered why do men ask women on dates if they don't plan on pursuing a relationship from the get go? Sex would be my guess..but I find men keep dating you even if you're not having sex and don't plan to. What is that stage called? Limbo.


I dunno.... I think you just have to really.... honestly.... let go of the world.... and be yourself. Let go of the perceptions, the expectations, the interactions, the judgements, and just be what you are when you close the door in your room and all you are doing is merely... being. Only when you feel safe enough to let your vulnerability out and bother being yourself in the midst of judgement I think ... you will find someone that will do the same for you. You play the game.... they will play the game.


----------



## Parttime muse (Feb 8, 2010)

I can't tell when a guy likes me or when a guy doesn't like me. After hard hurts and pain of trying to pursue, I'm just going to sit and wait.


----------



## thehigher (Apr 20, 2009)

Parttime muse said:


> I can't tell when a guy likes me or when a guy doesn't like me. After hard hurts and pain of trying to pursue, I'm just going to sit and wait.


I'm with ya.... cept being male


----------



## murderegina (Jan 7, 2010)

Even if I was willing to take a risk with pursuing a guy, I'd be nervous he used having the upper hand against me. The entire dating process is so fickle. When it comes to this, why can't everyone be a straight shooter about their intentions? (Ah, idealism.) But in more realistic view point, what is the honest to God truth for a guy using a girl for sex? I understand to some degree, one night stands and that. But the schemes I hear about from people, it blows my mind. More people than there ever should be, pursue girls with all lines and false emotions. That really just rubs me the wrong way. Or even weirder is some men will never even try to do more than kiss because I always make it clear I'm not going to do anything with them, yet still will hang out with me and text me..yet not pursue a relationship. This I understand..maybe they aren't ready for a girlfriend or don't want one. But why do men repeatedly text me yet sound uninterested? You're texting ME, I shouldn't have to drag the conversation along. Good grief!


----------



## thehigher (Apr 20, 2009)

> Even if I was willing to take a risk with pursuing a guy, I'd be nervous he used having the upper hand against me. The entire dating process is so fickle. When it comes to this, why can't everyone be a straight shooter about their intentions? (Ah, idealism.)


Yea.... I was thinking about something similar today.... I think.... I realized that... I need to stop expecting the world to change .... I expect it to be how I want it.... and I feel like it is the reason I am ____. But.... I think it has a lot to do with finding the ideal within yourself.... and learning to put it out there in the world. Kinda along the lines of ... be the change you seek. I get frustrated cause my ideals don't exist.... I'm wrong.... they DO exist... within me.... and since I know what they look like so clearly... it is in my power to make the world a better place. Ideals are not some dumb malfunction of the human.... it's like seeing the future.... but it's up to you to help manifest it in the hear and now. 



> But in more realistic view point, what is the honest to God truth for a guy using a girl for sex? I understand to some degree, one night stands and that. But the schemes I hear about from people, it blows my mind. More people than there ever should be, pursue girls with all lines and false emotions. That really just rubs me the wrong way. Or even weirder is some men will never even try to do more than kiss because I always make it clear I'm not going to do anything with them, yet still will hang out with me and text me..yet not pursue a relationship. This I understand..maybe they aren't ready for a girlfriend or don't want one. But why do men repeatedly text me yet sound uninterested? You're texting ME, I shouldn't have to drag the conversation along. Good grief!


I can't tell you the truth about guys using girls just for sex. Best I can describe it is deep immaturity and deep neuroticism. Perhaps they feel like the kind of girl they like doesn't exist.... so they get with a bunch of girls to just get a taste of it. Maybe they feel a lack of control in other parts of their lives and so they feel the need to feel pleasure.... no matter how fragmented it may be. Schemes and games are made by very insecure men who have a very skewed view of interpersonal reality. They don't know how to read humans .... they misinterpret them.... and end up acting on that misinterpretation. 

As for the guys who text you and sound uninterested. They are probably trying to play hard to get but instead coming across as just plain weird. Pretty soon their facade of manliness will just turn into mediocracy and like I said before.... an insecure, immature, and fragmented person.


----------



## susurration (Oct 22, 2009)

thehigher said:


> I like it when girls pursue. I think whether or not you like to pursue has a lot more to do with type than gender. Yes I am a man.... but naturally I am just not the one to initiate things. If you want me to.... I won't be being myself. I think it's Ok either way. And yea sure I like being on the bottom xD but.... if I feel comfortable with you I can manage the other. I get tired of people really... honeslty thinking this all has to do with gender. I know a lot of guys that love it when women initiate or open the door for them... course they would never say it for the deep seated fear of being called gay or made fun of. There are a lot of men out there that will literally punish you for not fitting in the gender role. Funny thing is.... I am deathly attracted to women.... not gay at all.... but somehow liking girls that pursue and not minding being the emotional one in the relationship makes me "gay". Another funny thing is ... most of the people that do call you gay or look down on you because of this.... are more insecure, not aware of their emotions, and just plain not honest with themselves. There was one guy that called me effeminate one time for being attracted to women who were in control.... we later found out he was ashamed of feeling the same way.


There have been lots of cross-cultural social research since the 1800s that suggests women control courtship in the sense that they are typically the ones who are giving the signals to men. Studies on body language point to this too. It is a gender thing, in the sense that gender does not equal biological sex, and genders are also socially constructed... and similarly courtship norms are socially constructed too. So we are all enculturated into certain ways of valuing genders and approaching dating. I'm not saying how society views the constructs of 'men' and 'women' are right, but how we do value the social construct of genders has an effect on their social roles. Which is what I think you were arguing. 

It's just interesting because 'the west' has a different way of approaching dating compared to other cultures, because of the gradual pulling away from traditional constructs of gender. The man as the pursuer, and the woman as the pursed. That said, I as a woman, have experienced hostility as someone who pursues people (men) I like.
I think you right that there is more to consider than gender, because as we know, certain personalities are more likely to favor tradition that other types. Some personalities are also more likely to initiate than others. That is why I have been asking gleaning responses as to see whether heterosexual women consider dating from a cultural point of view (I don't pursue, because I believe he eventually will) or a personality thing (I don't pursue because I am shy) perhaps we can't help but feel effected by both, but one more than another. What I'm really interested in, is how people navigate around the scenario, when you both are shy. Who makes the first move?

and it's ridiculous that you get called gay for accepting women who pursue you :\ I wish it wasn't like that. I suppose the ultimate society would be one where progressive social mores which cater for more people/personalities than traditional ones, reign supreme.


----------



## thehigher (Apr 20, 2009)

NatalieAnne said:


> . What I'm really interested in, is how people navigate around the scenario, when you both are shy. Who makes the first move?


haaa yea I know what you mean.


----------



## susurration (Oct 22, 2009)

thehigher said:


> haaa yea I know what you mean.


And the answer is dun dundun.... ME! haha.

The thing is, I have always gone for introverts. Like extreme introverts... and I am a little shy too. And I really don't think it's fair that he should be the one who does the approaching if I get the feeling he likes me too. So I just have an energy drink, pretend it's my last day alive and approach :S 

The reason I say this, is because most of my female friends are introverts... and they complain time after time that their introverted crush isn't pursuing them and they are just waiting for him to. And it makes me sad and a little angry that they always expect the guy to. Like you were saying, if we want to be a progressive society, we have to_ be _that progressive person that questions all these traditions in society.


----------



## thehigher (Apr 20, 2009)

NatalieAnne said:


> And the answer is dun dundun.... ME! haha.
> 
> The thing is, I have always gone for introverts. Like extreme introverts... and I am a little shy too. And I really don't think it's fair that he should be the one who does the approaching if I get the feeling he likes me too. So I just have an energy drink, pretend it's my last day alive and approach :S
> 
> The reason I say this, is because most of my female friends are introverts... and they complain time after time that their introverted crush isn't pursuing them and they are just waiting for him to. And it makes me sad and a little angry that they always expect the guy to. Like you were saying, if we want to be a progressive society, we have to_ be _that progressive person that questions all these traditions in society.


yes yes and yes. Agreed. Yea... agreed.


----------



## susurration (Oct 22, 2009)

thehigher said:


> yes yes and yes. Agreed. Yea... agreed.



*high fives* :laughing:

It'll take time to truly break away from tradition, and change will be slow. And although it'll never be perfect, we'll get there one day... I hope we see it in our time.


----------



## Perseus (Mar 7, 2009)

*When will I be released?*

Pursuit can turn into STALKING. No criminal offence may be committed but poison rumours, creepiness, can lead to a horrendous mare through bullying and mobbing by friends of the stalker, STJ types.

The whole life of the person being stalked can be destroyed and it is not illegal. This is emotional abuse, often turning into criminal abuse.


----------



## Blue Butterfly (Sep 19, 2009)

No, I don't like pursuing. It is very uncomfortable for me and I just WONT do it. If a man wants me he will have to chase and catch me while I am running away.


----------



## truevitality (Jan 18, 2010)

I've done it before. But it one of those heat of the moment things. I don't...regret it...but I think it would be nicer to be pursued.


----------



## Vanitas (Dec 13, 2009)

> Interesting. I think I behave similarly. Do you make your intentions seem friendly, and lead the initiation into 'friendship' or do you indicate a direct 'romantic' interest from the get go?


... Somewhere between friendly and interested. So far it works to get people talk about 'romantic considerations' (perception of religion, ideal future family, current family, etc) but possible to back off and pretend nothing ever happened/ been considered. Then again I never had any problem with people thinking I like them in that way, as long I don't confess anything.


----------



## susurration (Oct 22, 2009)

Cake said:


> No, I don't like pursuing. It is very uncomfortable for me and I just WONT do it. If a man wants me he will have to chase and catch me while I am running away.



Hey, I have an avoidant personality and I still pursue :tongue: for me, it was about changing the direction of where I was running. There are amazing people (men) out there everywhere, you just have to find them, have the courage to run towards them even though they may run away, and hold onto them (not literally of course, well... not at first :wink

Can I ask why you run, Cake?


----------

