# Comparing 5 + 8 Archetypes (258, 358 and 458)



## Karkino (May 25, 2017)

This post will compare the multiple differences between 258, 358 and 458 tritypes.

The 3 tritypes concerned with having FIVE and EIGHT fixes (258, 358 and 458) display those behavioral and psychological patterns : 

• Avarice and Lust combine into a very analytical and strategizing personality that absorbs a lot of facts from their environment in order to better defend against it. Those with this combination are attracted to the power-play, military strategies and intrigue in general;

• Double rejection stance ; the need for ignoring one's own needs and tending to one's feelings of being rejected by others is intensified;

• Protective, attentive and cunning energy;

• Very introverted masculine energy at play;

• The observing, system-building FIVE is a bit in conflict with the no-nonsence, action-oriented EIGHT;

• There's a dichotomy between the need to retreat from the outside world of the FIVE and the EIGHT's tendency to act upon impulse;

• Most likely combination to be considered independent and having original toughts;


*Differences Between Archetypes :*


*Relationships at Play*

• 258s need connection and approval of others and thus can employ strategies to keep them useful and sufficiently attached in order to always feel needed or loved;

• 358s have a harder time connecting with people and can be deemed as unemotional and high-strung, demanding excellence if they are in a position of authority;

• 458s don't mesh well with people either, since they prefer to keep a low profile and focus their attention on their emotional and intellectual experience;


*Social Masks*

• 258s like to help people and look for practical advices to give out, but often expect or coerce people to give out their part of the bargain; They are the least consistent in term of behavior, as they can shift from being warm and friendly to cold and harsh the next minute, often caused by something considered small to others;

• 358s prefer to keep a cool, unemotional mask in order that can prevent people from interacting with them because of their daunting appearance. They like to be praised for being competent and can act arrogant because of that;

• 458s often remove themselves from the crowd and act as unapproachable because they fear being influenced by common people. They keep their high sensivity in check when escaping their lair;


*Fields of Interest*

• 258s are the most relational of the three FIVE and EIGHT combinations and thus feel attracted to psychology and social studies; they really like to learn more about why people act and think in particular fashion;

• 358s are often attracted to business, finances and/or politics since it's where the true power is at. They love to understand how to act and look powerful and master all the tricks in order to succeed in doing so;

• 458s are more interested in philosophy, esoteric or hermetic theory and art. They often understand well symbols and have natural intuition to uncover the many mysteries of life;


*Potential Problems*

• 258s are often so much in a controlling stance, keeping people from affecting them and instead injecting their personal intervention in their lives that they come across as being enigmatic, unpredictable and pushy. They can be so well garded that they can close themselves up to their own needs and vulnerable side, so much so that they may feel empty and desperately in need of love frome someone. There is an hypersensitivity to being impacted and lose control of oneself here;

• 358s can be so detached from their emotional and vulnerable side that they can come across as being uncaring and cold-hearted to most people. They can so attached to their image of untaintable successful person that they may never be able to crack open their own inner shell of vulnerability. Being so removed from their feelings all the time can make intimacy and relationship suffer from being deficient and uncared for. This archetype is also very stubborn and it's hard to be able to put their mentality into question, as they often seem to have an answer for everything;

• 458s may run the risk of being too closed minded and argumentative about what they know to be the truth. Since they look at things very thorougly, they can use their knowledge as a weapon, attacking any differing minds with it. Also, this tritype isn't the best communicator in the sense that they can be curt and a bit rude about information that they perceive as superficial or incomplete. The also tend to keep their language peppered with complicated and/or posh terms that might confuse people. They may need to be more open-minded and understand that people don't understand things the same way as they do and often are satisfied with more simple answers.


*Patterns & Structure*

• 258s are triple rejection or relationist. This means that this archetype has all the three enneatypes in each center of intelligence that try to distance and protect themselves from experiencing rejection and pain from feeling estranged. They are really adept at developing and using strategies in relation to observing and controlling human behavior. This is possibly the most unpredictable and malicious tritype, especially when unhealthy. The self-preservation subtype is more introverted, so the FIVE fix is intensified for the most part. This subtype is characterized for its greater need for independence and defense structures related to food and money. The sexual subtype often have a passionate strike and dearly protect their intimate circle against detractors. They can be surprisingly soft and tender-hearted but extert a great deal of control onto their close friends. Dominant social variants are a little more prideful and militant about what they know and may want to be a dominant figure in a group or selective society. They are the most intellectual and people-savvy of all three subtypes.

• 358s are triple strategizing and hard-nosed. This means that this archetype has all the three enneatypes in each center of intelligence that try to come up with an effective solution in order to keep themselves from experiencing shame, being overwhelmed and vulnerable. Those people are the powerhouse of the archetypes and are always coming up with new ways to control and manoeuver their environment the way they can make them above others and successful. This archetype combined with a dominant self-preservation instinct is extremely practical and ressourceful. This is one of the most independent and self-sufficient combinations of all the enneagram. They keep their boundaries very protected and may be inpenetrable. The sexual subtype is more preoccupied with keeping a strong and secure bond with their loved ones. They have a lot of subtle but noticeable charisma that they can exploit too manipulate people. This is also the most emotionally-aware 358. the social dominant 358 is more cause-driven than the other two subtypes and concerned with how they present themselves to the public. They like to appear as withholding intellectual and political mastery overy their environment and may maintain a image of unweavering, powerful tycoon. Very good at reading up people and know how to climb up corporative ladders;

• 458s are triple independent thinker. This means that this archetype has all the three enneatypes in each center of intelligence that want to come up with an idiosyncratic view or answer to look up information and learn about their environment and themselves. This means that they can be very selective about accepting information from an outside source, especially if they are knowledgable in said subject. When combining this tritype with the self-preservation instinct, this gives off a pretty introverted and solitary character. This combination is probably the most independent one of all, especially when leading with FIVE or EIGHT. They are very focused on survival and can be very wise about subject such as existentialism or life and death in general. Sexual subtypes are more passionate as always but with this archetype, the accent is on sharing intimacy with one romantic parter. They can give everything and even sacrifice themselves for their partner in exchange for eternal faithfulness. Social subtypes are somewhat at odds with this tritype. They like to be seen as a the wise and ressourceful person of the group and can even be the silent leader orchestrating everything in the background. They might not always feel up to the task though, even if they can hide it well.


*Possible Mistypes*

• Sexual FIVE with a four wing and a 258 tritype may look like a 458 archetype because they have more access to their emotional vulnerabilities;

• Self-preservation TWO or EIGHT may be a lookalike to 458 even though they are 258;

• Social EIGHT with a 358 tritype may identify more with the 258 because of the countertype of EIGHT being more attentive to the needs of his or her crowd;

• Social FIVE with a six wing and a 458 tritype may look like a 258;


*MBTI*

• 258s' most common MBTI types are : ESTJ (825), ENTJ (852), ESFJ (285) and sometimes ENFJ (285) or ESTP (852). While it's true that introverted Myers Briggs types can be this tritype (mostly INTJ or INFJ) the EIGHT and TWO energies naturaly align more with extroverted types. Perceiving types are less likely to be this archetype;

• 358s' most common MBTI types are : ENTJ (853), ESTJ (835), INTJ (583) and sometimes ISTJ (538) or ISTP (583). It's very rare to see a feeling type with this archetype, even moreso if preferring extroverted feeling. Perceiving types are also quite uncommon for this tritype (ENTP might fit the role though). NTJ are very prolific with this tritype;

• 458s' most common MBTI types are : INTJ (548), ENTJ (854), INFJ (458) and sometimes INFP (458) and INTP (548). This tritype is rarely associated with sensing types (only ISTP could be a possibility). This archetype is mostly found within NTJs;


*Miscellaneous Differences*

• 258s are more relational than 358s and 458s and thus have an easier time forming bonds with people, unless when self-preservation dominant;

• 458s is the most inclined to seek intellectual enrichment for the sake of it, while 258s and 358s will try to gain useful ways to coerce or control their environment;

• 358s are the least emotional of the three while 258s are the most openly emotional;

• 458s focus on what's missing in order to look for a deeper meaning, which is not a trait of 258s and 358s;

• 258s are a little more cunning and socially-savvy than 358s and 458s who can be more socially akward (this depend on the instincts);

• 358s are the most shapeshifting and adaptable of the three FIVE + EIGHT combinations while 458s are the least;

• 258s are secretly afraid of people not liking them and may be more conciliating than 358s and 458s;

• 258s one of the most protective tritypes there is but this is less the case for 358s and 458s who focus more on themselves first;

• 258s are great at mentoring/advising others, 358s at leading/performing and 458s at accumulating knowledge/pondering.


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## MeeshkaSkwoz (Oct 4, 2018)

Superb. As a 548 who formerly thought was a 538 (or even a 358), this type of rich content on Tritype is really clarifying (both to me and other people).


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## AnneM (May 29, 2019)

@Karkino You are the best! I was _just_ going to ask around if someone could highlight the similarities and differences of the 258 and 458.....and then I see your thread! Honestly, I think I owe you more, information-wise, than anybody else on PerC. :heart:


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## midnightflower (Jun 25, 2019)

548.. strike right through me


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

@Karkino

Amazingly enough, I did originally think myself to be a 582 before it was made clear to me that I was really a 584.


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## incision (May 23, 2010)

As an 853 with a substantial gap between 5 and 3, much is accurate but the noticeable difference is the heavy three focus in the tritype descriptions (358). There really should be descriptions premised on different strength combinations, relative to the leading core type.


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## PrathamMBTI (May 5, 2021)

Karkino said:


> This post will compare the multiple differences between 258, 358 and 458 tritypes.
> 
> The 3 tritypes concerned with having FIVE and EIGHT fixes (258, 358 and 458) display those behavioral and psychological patterns :
> 
> ...


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## PrathamMBTI (May 5, 2021)

PrathamMBTI said:


> Can I be an INFJ 258? I am confused between 258 and 458


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## Karkino (May 25, 2017)

PrathamMBTI said:


> Can I be an INFJ 258? I am confused between 258 and 458


Of course. What is more important to you, staying true to your authenticity and the search for personal expression (FOUR) or being imortant and appreciated by others (TWO)?
FOURs search inward by searching what makes them emotionally alive and truth to themselves while TWOs search outward for validation and try to meet others' needs for them to be noticed.


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## PrathamMBTI (May 5, 2021)

Karkino said:


> Of course. What is more important to you, staying true to your authenticity and the search for personal expression (FOUR) or being imortant and appreciated by others (TWO)?
> FOURs search inward by searching what makes them emotionally alive and truth to themselves while TWOs search outward for validation and try to meet others' needs for them to be noticed.


Hey, I feel like you have an expertise in this field so can you help me out a bit? I am confused if I am 2w3 or 3w2 which basically determines if I am 258 or 358.
Thanks!


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## Karkino (May 25, 2017)

PrathamMBTI said:


> Hey, I feel like you have an expertise in this field so can you help me out a bit? I am confused if I am 2w3 or 3w2 which basically determines if I am 258 or 358.
> Thanks!


TWOs core needs are to be desired and appreciated, to feel that they are wanted and loved. But in order to get those, they feel that they must invest time to be part of other people's lives and appear selfless or generous. In doing so, they hope that others might notive how they care about them and recognize their dedication. If they feel that the favor weren't requited to their liking, they become bitter and hostile. More particularly, 2w3s want to appear like a bountiful giver of good news by making strong impact. 

THREEs core needs are to be seen as competent in their role, for people to see them as exemplary images of something highly esteemed. Thus they want to be the best a something and excel at that they do. They typically lose touch with they identity be overidentifying with and cultivating an image of success, making them anxious about the day people might see them less awesome than who they try to appear. THREEs run the risk of becoming human doings, frantically seeking activity and results to convince themselves that they are worthy of being loved. They measure love by quantity and amounts of feats done. More particularly, 3w2 want to cultivate a likeable and caring image, so they achieve with more appeal and external support.


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## sugarbait (7 mo ago)

I wanna let you know that these are some of the best threads in the entire website, very insightful


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

sugarbait said:


> I wanna let you know that these are some of the best threads in the entire website, very insightful


Yep, @Karkino is our resident Tritype expert. 

You may also want to look here for some additional info: https://www.personalitycafe.com/threads/the-27-tritype-archetype-descriptions.73452/#post-1808321


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## Karkino (May 25, 2017)

sugarbait said:


> I wanna let you know that these are some of the best threads in the entire website, very insightful


Thank you so much 💗


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