# Shocking Facts about Thomas Jefferson



## doublejm1 (Sep 2, 2012)

I'm a huge history buff and often write history articles for leisure, the latest one featuring Thomas Jefferson

This, however, is a work in progress, for I update the article with additional facts about Thomas Jefferson as I come across them. Do you feel there was anything "shocking" about Jefferson's presidency -- or, more generally, his life -- that I left out and should be included? The article centers on the many contradictions Jefferson is still getting flak for to this day.

Thoughts?

Thanks.


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## doublejm1 (Sep 2, 2012)

Jefferson also pledged never to remarry once his wife passed away. He kept his word.


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## doublejm1 (Sep 2, 2012)

Do you guys think Jefferson gets too much flak for being a slave owner considering it was common for men of his day to own slaves?


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## an absurd man (Jul 22, 2012)

doublejm1 said:


> Do you guys think Jefferson gets too much flak for being a slave owner considering it was common for men of his day to own slaves?


Yes, I suppose many think he should've known slavery wouldn't be cool in the future.


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## doublejm1 (Sep 2, 2012)

Striver said:


> Yes, I suppose many think he should've known slavery wouldn't be cool in the future.


True. Most sources say that he treated his slaves with respect, though.


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## Peripheral (Jan 8, 2011)

doublejm1 said:


> True. Most sources say that he treated his slaves with respect, though.


You know how you treat your slaves with respect??

Not keeping them as slaves.


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## MrShatter (Sep 28, 2010)

doublejm1 said:


> Do you guys think Jefferson gets too much flak for being a slave owner considering it was common for men of his day to own slaves?


I believe so; the fact doesn't make him an evil man. Did he support any emancipation movements?


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## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

it's easy to judge people in hindsight, when you're applying your own cultural values to a culture that is not your own.

Any of you guys watch Lincoln? There's even a practical application to all this: He asked Thaddeus Stevens to "dial things back a bit" and not even push for the black vote to be instituted because it would derail the amendment barring slavery. According to the movie, Stevens did so, but it was difficult for him; he felt like he was compromising. Still, slavery was banned; and THEN they could work on getting the vote extended to the black people.

Life is complicated. Figure out your goal, then determine what steps you need to take to reach it. Winning the moment could mean losing the war. 

Also, think about society. Releasing all your slaves -- where do they go? No opportunities in the culture, no cultural acceptance of blacks, they would have likely just become someone else's slaves or been in a worse situation. You need to win the culture to make a wholesale change like that. There's more than just idealism at work here, you have to be able to implement the plan to bring your ideals to fruition. I doubt any of us are even considering how Jefferson handled his estate's populace vs some of the horrid practices in the deep south (I wouldn't know, without further research), but my impression is that he wasn't out raping black female slaves and whipping the men to a bloody pulp.

Look at the whole gay marriage thing. SCOTUS dumped Roe vs Wade on American culture in the 70's and we're STILL fighting over it because the culture wasn't ready to accept it. I doubt SCOTUS will insist gay marriage be accepted by all states; they're waiting for the soil to become rich enough to support the crop, so to speak.

Jefferson did a buttload of positive things that put himself at risk, and I think it's stupid to make that issue the focus of his merit as a person especially with the social constraints that existed. It was a no-win.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

doublejm1 said:


> I'm a huge history buff and often write history articles for leisure, the latest one featuring Thomas Jefferson:
> 
> This, however, is a work in progress, for I update the article with additional facts about Thomas Jefferson as I come across them. Do you feel there was anything "shocking" about Jefferson's presidency -- or, more generally, his life -- that I left out and should be included? The article centers on the many contradictions Jefferson is still getting flak for to this day.
> 
> ...


I knew these things about Jefferson. He was a fairly complex guy. He was not the only one to have some habits we would find questionable by our standards. Most of them were not considered all that scandalous in his time. The Founding Fathers knew they had shortcomings that no form of government in the world could fix; their first attempt at establishing a government failed miserably with the Articles of Confederation, which is how we came to have a Constitution. The Founders had no idea what the future would bring. The United States during their time was 13 mostly agrarian states with very little industry to speak of. The brilliance of the U.S. Constitution is the fact that it can be (and has been) amended to reflect the changes associated with growth, social, and political changes. 

1. Jefferson was shy in public. His pen was eloquent, but he hated giving speeches. Despite his severe introversion, he was a polymath who knew several languages, and a prolific correspondent. Some of his letters were like novels. 

2. Every politician has a love-hate relationship with big government. This is nothing new. The chance to more-or-less DOUBLE the size of the United States with the Louisiana Purchase seems to me to be a pretty good reason to stretch the authority of the Office of President (and the Federal government). The potential benefits would seem to prove a tremendous boon to future generations. 

3. Many of the Founding Fathers were Bohemian, even hedonistic. Consider the "elder statesman" Ben Franklin, who well into his old age was still a party animal who enjoyed the company of women young enough to be his grandchildren.

4. The question of slavery at the beginning of this nation was a prickly one at best. The economy of the Southern States were intimately tied to slavery, and there was no way the Founding Fathers would have been able to create a unified front against Great Britain, or form a government without Virginia, the Carolinas, or Georgia. The notion of slavery something the Northern states would have liked to have addressed, but political expediency required the subject to be tabled. His affair with Sally Hemmings was one of the worst-kept secret of the time, as is the fact that his genetic ancestors of that line still exists to this very day. Jefferson did emancipate his slaves upon his death, however.

5. I hate political parties. I don't belong to either one. They seem to exist only to obstruct one another. They both play upon peoples' loyalties and fears and then do whatever they want once elected to office. Jefferson feared precisely what we are seeing today: a corrupt central government that seems to represent the people based upon their financial influence, rather than their legal obligation to serve all their constituents equally under the law (how do you represent a large body of people without favoritism?) Too much power in the hands of the Federal government has only created more corruption and bureaucracy (and they don't seem to miss an opportunity to take even more power whenever they get the chance). 

6. Any number of politicians have had their problems with the free press (Can anyone say Nixon and Watergate?). It's easy to uphold ideals when they don't directly apply to you, but when those ideals interfere with your carefully conceived agendas, one can find their position changes drastically. Regardless if the politician deserves it or not, a little bad press can end their careers. 

The Founding Fathers were far from perfect. They were ordinary human beings who lived in extraordinary times. We revere them for their willingness to put everything they had on the line, even their lives, to create a new and independent nation the likes of which had never been seen before. Other nations eventually took notice and followed suit. They changed the world as they knew it and set us on the path to becoming a world power. It's easy to mythologize these people. They led 13 backwoods colonies to victory over the superpower of their time. England should have been able to squash them like bugs, but somehow, they persevered.


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## KINGoftheAMAZONS (Jun 21, 2011)

doublejm1 said:


> Do you guys think Jefferson gets too much flak for being a slave owner considering it was common for men of his day to own slaves?


No, he doesn't get enough flak. And neither does George Washington. It doesn't matter if people owned slaves during this time. The Founding fathers fought under the banner of freedom as they were trying to unyoke the American colonies from the oppression of British rule; which means that they fully understood the desire that a person might have to be free (and by extension, the consequences that came with a lack of freedom). With this in mind, there's no excuse for the hypocrisy of these supposedly "enlightened" men who fought desperately to win their own freedom, whilst at the same time, keeping an entire group of people chained in the deathtrap that is _slavery_. 

It's only worse when we see that slave owners had to create sophistic rationalizations to justify their beliefs as to why blacks did not deserve the same right to be free as whites. Jefferson is guilty of writing some of these rationalizations. Rationalizations that were primarily based on finding any source of "_inferiority_" that could be used to prove that blacks were fundamentally different from white people on an evolutionary basis (and thus not worthy of being seen as human). Why not criticize this ignorant aspect of Thomas Jefferson?


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## Brian1 (May 7, 2011)

I think he should've been more aware to his place in history, and found the inconsistencies of his behavior. He really was terrible with finances, and spent on books, wine, scientific instruments, to the point he was owing a lot to his creditors. And then he had a mistress who was a slave, on the side. It's kind of ironic too,because his mortal enemy was Alexander Hamilton, who championed banks, credit,and Jefferson did like that.


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## La Li Lu Le Lo (Aug 15, 2011)

doublejm1 said:


> Jefferson also pledged never to remarry once his wife passed away. He kept his word.


And had an affair with one of his slaves instead. Oh, but he didn't _marry_ her. He's an honorable man, you see.


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## SuperDevastation (Jun 7, 2010)

Slaves were brought in ships and sold. Luckily some slave owners who bought the slaves treated them like humans.


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## MissJordan (Dec 21, 2010)

La Li Lu Le Lo said:


> And had an affair with one of his slaves instead. Oh, but he didn't _marry_ her. He's an honorable man, you see.


This.



http://www.freewebs.com/qitranscripts/411.htm said:


> When the American President, Thomas Jefferson, was asked if he was having an affair with one of his slaves, Sally Hemmings, he replied, "The man who fears no truth has nothing to fear from lies." DNA recently, on Sally's descendants, has shown that this meant "Yes." Good night.


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## doublejm1 (Sep 2, 2012)

La Li Lu Le Lo said:


> And had an affair with one of his slaves instead. Oh, but he didn't _marry_ her. He's an honorable man, you see.


Jefferson should have pledged not to be romantically involved with anyone. "I won't marry again" obviously creates a loophole.


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## doublejm1 (Sep 2, 2012)

tanstaafl28 said:


> The Founding Fathers were far from perfect. They were ordinary human beings who lived in extraordinary times. We revere them for their willingness to put everything they had on the line, even their lives, to create a new and independent nation the likes of which had never been seen before. Other nations eventually took notice and followed suit. They changed the world as they knew it and set us on the path to becoming a world power. It's easy to mythologize these people. They led 13 backwoods colonies to victory over the superpower of their time. England should have been able to squash them like bugs, but somehow, they persevered.


Very well put. It's incredible that we not only vanquished Britain in the Revolutionary War, but we defeated them in the War of 1812 as well. In both cases, we were the underdogs.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

doublejm1 said:


> Very well put. It's incredible that we not only vanquished Britain in the Revolutionary War, but we defeated them in the War of 1812 as well. In both cases, we were the underdogs.


I have no trouble imagining myself on the deck of HMS Minden in the Chesapeake Bay, after the British bombarded Fort McHenry all night, firing hundreds of cannon shot and some 15-1800 rockets at the fort; and yet as the smoke cleared the next dawn, flying proud was the American Flag that inspired Francis Scott Key to pen the poem that would become our national anthem. It was a huge "middle finger" at the Brits, whose plans to invade and burn Baltimore to the ground were thus thwarted.


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## doublejm1 (Sep 2, 2012)

tanstaafl28 said:


> I have no trouble imagining myself on the deck of HMS Minden in the Chesapeake Bay, after the British bombarded Fort McHenry all night, firing hundreds of cannon shot and some 15-1800 rockets at the fort; and yet as the smoke cleared the next dawn, flying proud was the American Flag that inspired Francis Scott Key to pen the poem that would become our national anthem. It was a huge "middle finger" at the Brits, whose plans to invade and burn Baltimore to the ground were thus thwarted.


It's amazing how we beat such long odds to win that war.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

doublejm1 said:


> It's amazing how we beat such long odds to win that war.


The same with the one before it.


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## TheProcrastinatingMaster (Jun 4, 2012)

doublejm1 said:


> It's amazing how we beat such long odds to win that war.


Not really. both times European powers intervened against Britain.


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