# 4D Ni Redundancy



## orbit (Oct 19, 2012)

Here's the definition of 4D from here:


> Ex : experience = the ability to recognize patterns and make generalizations based on personal experience
> Nr : norms = the ability to recognize and apply standard practices from one's surroundings
> St : situation = the ability to recognize and respond to the subtleties of specific situations
> *Tm : time = the ability to recognize and envision development over time*


And this is the definition of Ni from here:


> Ni is generally associated with the ability to recognize the unfolding of processes over time (how one event leads to another)


So putting it together, 4D Ni would be the "ability to recognize the unfolding of processes over time" with the strength of being able to "recognize and envision development over time" (along with Ex, Nr, and St's abilities as well). 

I find this odd and I don't understand it. To me 4D is overlapping with Ni's definition and almost rendering it moot or vice versa. 

I'd appreciate any answers or explanations.


----------



## To_august (Oct 13, 2013)

@orbit
Information element is a certain kind of information according to its corresponding definition. Time, as a dimensionality parameter, defines _quality_ of a given information processing. They are two different things. 

It's not specified what kind if "development" is meant in the definition of Tm parameter. These may be relationship developments or logical developments, or other kinds of developments specific to other IEs.

I recommend reading this for more info - Dimension four | School of System Socionics


----------



## ElliCat (May 4, 2014)

Thanks for the link @To_august! I was just thinking that I would like to see some concrete examples of the IE's in different dimensionalities. That helps a lot.


----------



## ElliCat (May 4, 2014)

Sorry @To_august I'm back with a question:



> One of the names of the function 2 is "the creative function". Are we creative only when it concerns the function 2? No. Even a one-dimensional function can create, in the sense of making something new. Many creative people - artists, designers, sculptors, fashion designers - create new things using their one-dimensional functions. And their deeply individual vision of the world surprises us with its unusual, unconventional, shocking, sometimes strange and incomprehensible side.* The socionic term "creative function" should be understood as a "function, which serves to finalize the goal-setting of the function 1, thus creating "production" of the function 1."*


I thought that in the case of IEE, it might be that Ne is kind of an amorphous, ever-present, existing in a cloud of possibilities, but becomes more focused when channelled through Fi, i.e. the potential becomes clearer and more defined once the IEE looks to their relationships. And that made sense. But then I was thinking of the reverse and got stuck. 

What differentiates 4D Fi/3D Ne from 4D Ne/3D Fi?

Or replace with something you're more comfortable with. These are just my default go-to IE's.


----------



## To_august (Oct 13, 2013)

ElliCat said:


> Sorry @*To_august* I'm back with a question:
> 
> I thought that in the case of IEE, it might be that Ne is kind of an amorphous, ever-present, existing in a cloud of possibilities, but becomes more focused when channelled through Fi, i.e. the potential becomes clearer and more defined once the IEE looks to their relationships. And that made sense. But then I was thinking of the reverse and got stuck.
> 
> ...


Hmm... Pardon me being anal, but I don't think Ne can be channeled through Fi as well as any other IE, since they are separate types of information and don't work through each other but rather they work together. But, I guess, that's what you meant anyway.

My understanding of IEE vs EII is pretty much technical, that is type with Ne base processed with a 4D capacity + Fi processed with a 3D capacity vs type with Fi base processed with a 4D capacity + Ne processed with a 3D capacity. In other words, IEE is a type that sees the world through the lens of potential, possibilities and qualities, developments of which are consciously tracked. Being blocked with 3D Fi such distribution may be finalized in the form of seeing interesting people and building desired relationships with them or upon seeing hidden potential of the social situation figure out ways to handle it in a desired way etc. Whereas, EII is a type that sees the world through the lens of relationships and attitudes, developments of which are consciously tracked. Being blocked with 3D Ne it may be finalized in the form of... idk, for example, seeing the good in the bad, figuring out hidden motives of people and the like. There must many other possible ways of Ne/Fi and Fi/Ne manifestations, but I can't think of many at the moment. It's kinda difficult for me to think in Ne terms.


----------



## Lord Fenix Wulfheart (Aug 18, 2015)

4D Ni is able to recognize information related to subjective abstracted information, including time, and then seeing how that information unfolds when you progress time. Being able to see what the information will look like after progression of various variables.

For perception of time unfolding over time, you must realize that you can feel time's passing, and that this is a subjective experience. It can feel like time is passing slowly or quickly. 4D Ni recognizes this and can extrapolate into how time would feel in a different situation with different parameters in another time period after variables in a set have been applied, all on that same subjective level. The intuition of time is subjective, not objective, so it isn't about events that occur in the outside world, its about the subjective experience of things as they relate to things that happened or could have happened in the outside world. It all depends on a great deal of what ifs and other suppositions, as does all extrapolation of information outside of one's own experiences and into different situations and times.

I'm not sure that made any sense. I hope I am being clear.


----------

