# Developing Ti



## Blue Ribbon (Sep 4, 2016)

Valtire said:


> Because you'd fail in university if you cited it?
> 
> https://myelms.umd.edu/courses/1082...d-source-determining-the-validity-of-evidence
> 
> You shouldn't ever assume a source is good. You assume it's bad until proven otherwise.


Yeah, this response is what made me think IxFJ. They have the same functions, different order and this style of citing sources is usually a sign of weak thinking overall. One probably will not see a strong thinking type use external sources like that, not Te or Ti. Not saying OP is mistyped, just that it's definitely worth considering. Regardless, learning logic is a good exercise for anyone so should cause no harm.


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## Stevester (Feb 28, 2016)

If it's your Dom function there should be no need to develop it. It should be very omni-present and effortless, hell, many Jungian enthusiasts will argue that we all need to shush and downplay our dominant function if we seek personal growth. 

For FJs however, where Ti is lower, the proper way to develop it is by being more independent. By learning to not rely on others for their woes in life and instead try to fix it themselves. They should literally ask themselves _''What would I do if I woke up tomorrow and was the last person standing in the world?'_' By putting people aside, they give Fe a break and Ti can finally rise out of the shadows and analyze how to fix their problems mechanically, scientifically, psychologically, philosophically and even relationship-wise. The latter is their sore spot though, because it requires them to see a conflict that they are currently in the midst of, step back and wonder what's really going on here and what is the objective data and solution. Strong Fe usually doesn't allow this to happen, especially for ExFJs. And the ''solution'' is more often than not _''When that jerk apologizes and admits he was wrong''_.


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## Blue Ribbon (Sep 4, 2016)

Stevester said:


> If it's your Dom function there should be no need to develop it. It should be very omni-present and effortless, hell, many Jungian enthusiasts will argue that we all need to shush and downplay our dominant function if we seek personal growth.
> 
> For FJs however, where Ti is lower, the proper way to develop it is by being more independent. By learning to not rely on others for their woes in life and instead try to fix it themselves. They should literally ask themselves _''What would I do if I woke up tomorrow and was the last person standing in the world?'_' By putting people aside, they give Fe a break and Ti can finally rise out of the shadows and analyze how to fix their problems mechanically, scientifically, psychologically, philosophically and even relationship-wise. The latter is their sore spot though, because it requires them to see a conflict that they are currently in the midst of, step back and wonder what's really going on here and what is the objective data and solution. Strong Fe usually doesn't allow this to happen, especially for ExFJs. And the ''solution'' is more often than not _''When that jerk apologizes and admits he was wrong''_.


Actually, Te cares about people's opinions also. Mostly things like "is this person intelligent in holding this opinion? Do they know what they're talking about?" The idea is that what people say is knowledge and that knowledge is valuable, especially if I don't know what they're talking about. People's opinions can be a good indicator of what is true, what is false and what is just blatant propaganda. For that reason, Te types do care about people's opinions, not saying we follow them blindly. At the end of the day, we have to make an informed decision on all the information we have. This is why I would never trust Personality Hacker or any source for that matter. Because I can't tell if they're just BS sources who's pulling things out of their ass. I think this is an important skill that all people should have, that it's possible to learn - critically evaluate everything so you know you're not being played. 

It's not just about Ti. Strong thinkers tend to be good at both Te and Ti. Try throwing some BS Te argument at an ENTP, they'll see through it, and even argue back. Same here for ENTJs. I can Ti if I need to. MBTI is about preference. It's not about "IS." I'm not an ENTJ in essence, _I prefer Te/Ni/Se/Fi._ I can Ne and Ti and even Fe if I have to. (Si tho... Still working on that one)


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## heavydirtysoul (Jan 13, 2012)

spaceynyc said:


> are you sure you're Fe dom? lol
> not getting those vibes at all from you.
> 
> I have a strong suspicion that you're ENTJ, you had it correct before.


Would you indicate the following post as Te, likewise?


* *






heavydirtysoul said:


> I prefer to consider it an honest response, as there is a difference between being direct and being mean.
> 
> “Underdeveloped dominant function”, as a notion itself, is a blatant contradiction - the dominant function is called _dominant _because of our strong preference for it. I’d rather suspect you are making it up, owing to the fact that I’ve never met such concept regarding verified sources. There is, however, a case for an immature use of a dominant function, yet the_ immature use_ of a function would not at all change the fundamental nature of it - only the way it is expressed.
> Yet, since it has to be exclusively the business of your own, and you reject the idea of considering external opinion, you shouldn't post it on the internet, to begin with.






I do admit I switch between options inconsistently, yet feel more at ease considering Fe/Ti axis in regard to own self. However, if I'd be concerned with the probability of being a thinking type, I'd face an exorbitant struggle determining whether I use Te/Fi or Ti/Fe, as the uncertainty of it has always been present.



spaceynyc said:


> Actually just realized you're probably Fi dominant. The way you insist on referring to Personality Hacker to back up your logic points to use of Te.


Curious. As a matter of fact, taking into account personal observations, I've always had a flamboyantly obstructive relationship with Fi users, especially in point of dispute - I've always felt as if they lacked reason and appropriation.


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## heavydirtysoul (Jan 13, 2012)

@*spaceynyc* and, to be completely honest, there is a flair for "Because I said so" outline regarding Fi users, which I have a hard time handling, as I appeal to seek for a detailed, informative, supported and approachable reasoning to each actual cause.


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## soop (Aug 6, 2016)

It's against the rules for me to speak my thoughts here. However it seems like you want to develop the skill of logical reasoning, which is something different from Ti. Ti is just the angle you come towards the material from. I second what the ribbon guy said, take a logic class, or maybe even philosophy or something.


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## SimplyEnigmatic (Aug 19, 2017)

soop said:


> It's against the rules for me to speak my thoughts here. However it seems like you want to develop the skill of logical reasoning, which is something different from Ti. Ti is just the angle you come towards the material from. I second what the ribbon guy said, take a logic class, or maybe even philosophy or something.


It's not against the rules for you to speak your thoughts btw....
Ti is a framework of logic, it just judges if the material is a good fit by piecing and comparing logic. It inputs the data about the material and examine the gathered data for inconsistencies. It comes to a logical reasoning that a particular material is bound in good parameters.

The main difference between Ti and Te is the use of logic. Te likes logic as it is said. 1 + 1 = 2, but Ti does not like that. Ti wants to know why 1 + 1 = 2. Use of logical reasoning is used by both Ti and Te. Ti refers to internal logical reasoning and Te refers to external logical reasoning. Ti users need an internal source of logic (hence wanting the explanation) so they can refer to it later and fact check it against other logic.


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## soop (Aug 6, 2016)

iPeekAtChu said:


> It's not against the rules for you to speak your thoughts btw....
> Ti is a framework of logic, it just judges if the material is a good fit by piecing and comparing logic. It inputs the data about the material and examine the gathered data for inconsistencies. It comes to a logical reasoning that a particular material is bound in good parameters.
> 
> The main difference between Ti and Te is the use of logic. Te likes logic as it is said. 1 + 1 = 2, but Ti does not like that. Ti wants to know why 1 + 1 = 2. Use of logical reasoning is used by both Ti and Te. Ti refers to internal logical reasoning and Te refers to external logical reasoning. Ti users need an internal source of logic (hence wanting the explanation) so they can refer to it later and fact check it against other logic.


In this case it is, just trust me on that and don't mention it further. I know the difference between Ti and Te. You double posted, or at least it notified me twice.


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## Bastard (Feb 4, 2018)

Blue Ribbon said:


> It's not just about Ti. *Strong thinkers tend to be good at both Te and Ti. Try throwing some BS Te argument at an ENTP, they'll see through it, and even argue back. Same here for ENTJs. I can Ti if I need to.* MBTI is about preference. It's not about "IS." I'm not an ENTJ in essence, _I prefer Te/Ni/Se/Fi._ I can Ne and Ti and even Fe if I have to. (Si tho... Still working on that one)


I'm with you on this. And it gets overlooked far too often. 

Take an INTP. They have strong intuition and thinking across the board, but the preference - the default setting - is Ti and Ne.


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## heavydirtysoul (Jan 13, 2012)

So?.. @*spaceynyc*


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## spaceynyc (Feb 18, 2017)

heavydirtysoul said:


> So?.. @*spaceynyc*


based on this quote alone i'll break down what I think points to Te use:

*"I prefer to consider it an honest response, as there is a difference between being direct and being mean."* *this line seems very Te-Fi. Fi is more likely to see being direct as equating to being mean, where as a Te user would believe being direct is a form of honesty and therefore actually helpful which indicates Fi is the hidden agenda but it's dressed up in a Te suit.*

“Underdeveloped dominant function”, as a notion itself, is a blatant contradiction - the dominant function is called dominant because of our strong preference for it. *I’d rather suspect you are making it up [Ni, but irrelevant to the purpose of this post]*, *owing to the fact that I’ve never met such concept regarding verified sources.* *[points to use of Te right here, verified sources being the standard is a sign of Te usage]* There is, however, a case for an immature use of a dominant function, yet the immature use of a function would not at all change the fundamental nature of it - only the way it is expressed.
Yet, since it has to be exclusively the business of your own, *and you reject the idea of considering external opinion* [*Te again, external opinion in this case meaning external logical opinion = extroverted Logic]* another, *you shouldn't post it on the internet, to begin with*. *[I suspect this statement comes from lower Fi]*"

OP being a [possible] Fi dominant and you being a Te dominant, as you said might be the source of the minor rift seen here between the two of you. It's just something I suspected. I don't have strong evidence, but my intuition tells me you definitely seem to be Te-Ni.


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## I forgot my name (Apr 29, 2018)

Valtire said:


> Because you'd fail in university if you cited it?
> 
> https://myelms.umd.edu/courses/1082...d-source-determining-the-validity-of-evidence
> 
> You shouldn't ever assume a source is good. You assume it's bad until proven otherwise.





spaceynyc said:


> This seems like Feeling user kind of response to a Logic user.
> 
> I'm not sure if i'm seeing Fi or Fe in that last sentence but i'd respectfully consider looking into the possibility of you being either an IxFP or IxFJ. Your aura and word tones, don't really sync up with Ti dominant imo.
> 
> ...





Blue Ribbon said:


> Yeah, this response is what made me think IxFJ. They have the same functions, different order and this style of citing sources is usually a sign of weak thinking overall. One probably will not see a strong thinking type use external sources like that, not Te or Ti. Not saying OP is mistyped, just that it's definitely worth considering. Regardless, learning logic is a good exercise for anyone so should cause no harm.


 Hey you guys... I didn't put those links there as evidences supporting my point... I put them there because this heavydirtysoul person was accusing me of making that notion up by myself and I wanted to show her that concept does exist and it made sense to me when I came across it. Why... I have explained a few paras below! 
As for you guys getting an F vibe from.me, well I have a lot to say on that. See I too had been just like other ISTPs behaviour wise but about an year ago I went through a huge emotional crisis. My world crumbled around me and there was nothing whatsoever I could do except just suffering it. My logic failed as it always does for everyone in the face of strong emotions and the stress frequently put me at the mercy of my inferior Fe. Those days, I thought all the time that everyone hated me or didn't care about me which is sort of the signature of Fe grip. (But I didn't know what was happening then. I came across mbti later on and the accurate description baffled me.) That and the fact that I tried to reason with myself a number of times by thinking about how so many other people in the world were going through things a lot worse and I used to put myself in their shoes to feel their pain in an attempt to lessen mine (probably a dumb thing to do) and all this combined somehow forced my F to grow. I have now become a lot more caring towards other people's feelings and try not to hurt them.
It is also a fact that I have literally been surrounded by F types all my life. My parents, my brother, both my best friends and all 3 of my cousins with whom I hangout with on weekends are Fs. I have adopted a number of things from my parents (well naturally) and have been influenced to some extent by my friends too. 
This is one of the main reasons I think that I don't use Ti as I could have. I used to think there was something wrong with me before reading mbti and frequently tried to copy my friends' behavior as much as I could, without feeling stupid, in an attempt to fit in.
And after reading mbti, I realized that external influences have been hindering my Ti. So I googled and came across personality hacker and mbti notes tumblr who seemed to agree that even the dominant function can be underdeveloped. They were not evidences, just something to show that I am not the only one believing that. Hope this long explanation clears everything  Have a nice day! 

P.S. pardon my grammatical mistakes


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## heavydirtysoul (Jan 13, 2012)

I forgot my name said:


> Hey you guys... I didn't put those links there as evidences supporting my point... I put them there because this heavydirtysoul person was accusing me of making that notion up by myself and I wanted to show her that concept does exist and it made sense to me when I came across it.


"_This _heavydirtysoul person"... Oh, you're funny! Nearly the epitome of politeness.


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## heavydirtysoul (Jan 13, 2012)

@spaceynyc couldn't I be an Ti/Fi user though, as Ti combined with Se can often slightly come off as Te?


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## spaceynyc (Feb 18, 2017)

heavydirtysoul said:


> @spaceynyc couldn't I be an Ti/Fi user though, as Ti combined with Se can often slightly come off as Te?


It can come off that way in an intuitive general sense, but certain words and sentences you said sound specifically Te/Fi to me, like it doesn't fit any other function as well.


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## heavydirtysoul (Jan 13, 2012)

spaceynyc said:


> It can come off that way in an intuitive general sense, but certain words and sentences you said sound specifically Te/Fi to me, like it doesn't fit any other function as well.


Thank you. I need to ponder on this. For the reason that, as much as I have a tendency to, mostly, be able to use the right information and focus on achieving goals through efficiency and logic, I also, for the most part, consumingly caught in overthinking, "why/how" aspects of a matter and categorizing information. In spite of it, however, I equally find own self being capable of seeing/feeling the emotions of other people, being amazingly good at understanding hidden motives and knowing how other people feel - before they find out on their own. _There is_ a massive internal war...


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## I forgot my name (Apr 29, 2018)

heavydirtysoul said:


> "_This _heavydirtysoul person"... Oh, you're funny! Nearly the epitome of politeness.


Why thankyou!.... But hey, I just realized that I forgot to mention that I care about the feelings of only those whom I consider worthy... And definately not those who start rifts with me for no real reason...


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## heavydirtysoul (Jan 13, 2012)

lol 
Whatever.


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## JackSparroww (Dec 10, 2010)

heavydirtysoul said:


> @spaceynyc couldn't I be an Ti/Fi user though, as Ti combined with Se can often slightly come off as Te?


You drunk?
A well developed Ti is through hard study
You talk esoteric


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## heavydirtysoul (Jan 13, 2012)

JackSparroww said:


> heavydirtysoul said:
> 
> 
> > @spaceynyc couldn't I be an Ti/Fi user though, as Ti combined with Se can often slightly come off as Te?
> ...


No. Are you?


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## Lunacik (Apr 19, 2014)

I forgot my name said:


> *As for you guys getting an F vibe from.me,* well I have a lot to say on that. See I too had been just like other ISTPs behaviour wise but about an year ago I went through a huge emotional crisis. My world crumbled around me and there was nothing whatsoever I could do except just suffering it. My logic failed as it always does for everyone in the face of strong emotions and the stress frequently put me at the mercy of my inferior Fe. Those days, I thought all the time that everyone hated me or didn't care about me which is sort of the signature of Fe grip. (But I didn't know what was happening then. I came across mbti later on and the accurate description baffled me.) That and the fact that I tried to reason with myself a number of times by thinking about how so many other people in the world were going through things a lot worse and I used to put myself in their shoes to feel their pain in an attempt to lessen mine (probably a dumb thing to do) and all this combined somehow forced my F to grow. I have now become a lot more caring towards other people's feelings and try not to hurt them.
> It is also a fact that I have literally been surrounded by F types all my life. My parents, my brother, both my best friends and all 3 of my cousins with whom I hangout with on weekends are Fs. I have adopted a number of things from my parents (well naturally) and have been influenced to some extent by my friends too.
> This is one of the main reasons I think that I don't use Ti as I could have. I used to think there was something wrong with me before reading mbti and frequently tried to copy my friends' behavior as much as I could, without feeling stupid, in an attempt to fit in.
> And after reading mbti, I realized that external influences have been hindering my Ti. So I googled and came across personality hacker and mbti notes tumblr who seemed to agree that even the dominant function can be underdeveloped. They were not evidences, just something to show that I am not the only one believing that. Hope this long explanation clears everything  Have a nice day!


Yeah, plus you're a female. I get the same feedback. Bear in mind that I say this with no intention of claiming firm certainty of my type, and they could be accurate. Studies show that female Ts may have more of an F lean than male Ts anyways. "Fe = kindness" is a huge misconception that is prevalent on PerC, anyways. If you're nice, if you are a little emotional, care about people instead of being an asshole, or even a have a bit of a feminine avatar, "Feeeeeee! F! F!" I don't blame you for not listening. The stereotypes do abound. And a lot of people seem to underestimate or misunderstand Inferior Fe or compare to the stigma of ITP males.

Edit: people also seem to fail to understand that there is a spectrum, or that there are multiple facets. So for instance, I can appear extroverted if people notice that I am Expressive Facet. There is also nature vs nurture, as you mentioned. It's not black and white. I don't have an opinion on your type, I'm just making some points.

However, I'd advise staying away from tumblr.


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## I forgot my name (Apr 29, 2018)

Hey thanks soo much... I agree with every single thing you said  



RGB said:


> However, I'd advise staying away from tumblr.


 Oh ok... Thanks... Could you er suggest some trusted website to me?


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## Lunacik (Apr 19, 2014)

I forgot my name said:


> Hey thanks soo much... I agree with every single thing you said
> 
> 
> Oh ok... Thanks... Could you er suggest some trusted website to me?


MBTI Manual - http://www.tolarisd.org/cms/lib3/TX...n/27/Myers Briggs Personality Test Manual.pdf

or

https://www.amazon.com/MBTI-Manual-Development-Myers-Briggs-Indicator/dp/0891061304


Descriptions of MBTI Step II™ Facets - https://www.personalitycafe.com/myers-briggs-forum/222794-descriptions-mbti-step-ii-facets.html

Nardi Neuroscience - https://www.amazon.com/dp/0979868475?tag=vs-health-convert-amazon-20

List of books - https://personalityjunkie.com/recommended-reading/#foot_note_1

Gifts Differing - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0047T7MQU?tag=vs-health-convert-amazon-20

Evolution of Function Attitudes - http://www.hpsys.com/PDFs/The Evolution of the Function-Attitudes2_2003.pdf

Developing Models and Beliefs - http://www.petergeyer.com.au/library/Image_to_Likeness_Review.pdf


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## JackSparroww (Dec 10, 2010)

heavydirtysoul said:


> No. Are you?


Girl there are things in the world, which aint made for woman


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## heavydirtysoul (Jan 13, 2012)

JackSparroww said:


> Girl there are things in the world, which aint made for woman


Oh! Really? Preach.


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## JackSparroww (Dec 10, 2010)

heavydirtysoul said:


> Oh! Really? Preach.


I am german, we conquer !


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## heavydirtysoul (Jan 13, 2012)

JackSparroww said:


> I am german, we conquer !


Nice. Sexy.


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## JackSparroww (Dec 10, 2010)

heavydirtysoul said:


> Nice. Sexy.


Nice, 15 years old


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## heavydirtysoul (Jan 13, 2012)

JackSparroww said:


> Nice, 15 years old


Are you?


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## JackSparroww (Dec 10, 2010)

Iam 15 suns and 20 moons


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## knifey (Jun 25, 2017)

okay I know a few istp's now dayz..... I haven't read all your replies to people just the first few and last few. I actually do believe that you may be right about an under developed primary function being possible. I can only think of one cause though, particularly for istp, and that would be self confidence. If your brain is over-riding Ti with a vote of no confidence, then yeah it might really mess things up. Honestly... I can't help. I don't know what it looks like when somebody leans heavily on Ti-Se together, everything I think of that uses my Ti... I rely on my Ne to feed it. My Ne is like the engineer/stoker in a steam train shovelling information coal into the Ti burner. How would Se stoke Ti? Competitive sport probably... another alien concept to me. Oh, what about strategy games? If you don't like them, it's probably because you suck at them lol, but you shouldn't. I think you should actually be good at them. Even something like dark souls is kind of strategy. FPS games would be mental masturbation accomplishing nothing though, that's not using Ti at all... steer clear of anything repetitive where you can use the same strategy over and over.

When you play with your toys (all istp's play with toys), puzzles, boardgames, drones, power tools, whatever.... do it in a way you have never done it before. That should stretch your Ti too.

edit: and watch documentaries


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