# Abandonment vs. Betrayal vs. Rejection



## Animal (May 29, 2012)

I would be curious to hear abandonment, rejection and betrayal discussed, and how they manifest in types, and in yourself.

- What is the difference between the three?

- Which one is associated with which type?

- How do you experience fear of abandonment, betrayal, or rejection personally? Do you relate to some more than others?


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## Animal (May 29, 2012)

Current thoughts:

Betrayal: abuse of trust
Abandonment: being left behind 
Rejection: being unwanted
___
Betrayal could be avoided if someone is TRUSTWORTHY
Abandonment could be avoided if someone loves you UNCONDITIONALLY
Rejection could be avoided if someone wants you AS YOU ARE

____
Examples.. [feel free to disagree, I am not attached to these]

- In type 4: "I will be abandoned/rejected because I am not enough." "I fucked up." "I pushed him away." Etc. Self-blaming mentality. "If I reveal too much of my feelings I will drive him away, but if I don't, he won't love me for me. But how can he love me for me when I am so flawed and I keep fucking up?" You will never live up to your ideals, your ideal self, so this person couldn't accept you as you are, and obviously it's your own damn fault for being so pathetic as to fail to live up to your own ideals. But you want someone to accept you with all of that (even though you don't accept yourself). [Is this fear of abandonment or rejection?]

- Type 6: "You are doing something fucked up to me." "I gave you power over me and you are abusing it." "I can't let myself get affected by you because you obviously don't care." If it's your own fault, the fault is in letting this person in, giving them power over you, trusting them, allowing them to matter. "If I let you in too far, I am inviting betrayal." [I would say this is fear of betrayal.]

- Type 2: "You only love me because I do all these things for you, but if I stop doing these things, would you still care about me?" "You don't care about me enough considering all I have done for you." "I am not worthy of being loved just for who I am, so I have to strive to earn your love so you won't leave me." "You will inevitably leave me because you don't care about me, only about what I have done for you. " [Fear of rejection or abandonment?]

_____
I am not attached to these definitions or associated types, only pontificating.


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## Animal (May 29, 2012)

Me personally:

- It rarely occurs to me that someone might betray me. I never think, "this person is going to use the information I gave them as power over me." Or, "this person will deceive me." Of course, if someone shows signs that they are a deceptive person, or they fuck me over once (or someone else), I will notice this type of back-stabbing, but I don't tend to irrationally fear that someone is going to betray me. cheat, lie, backstab, or use power 'against me.' 

- It occurs to me constantly that I will be abandoned by the person I want most. Every time I show affection, love or appreciation to someone I feel romantically attached to, I go into panic mode. I don't mind having powerful, vulnerable feelings, but when I *show* them, I feel like I ripped my skin off and left my open heart out in the sun to burn, and he will never contact me again because I overwhelmed him.

This should not be mistaken for a fear of betrayal, though. I might know someone is good and have honest motives, and would do right by me, but I am not good enough _for _them. Abandonment happens because of rejection (I am unwanted) rather than betrayal (the person wasn't trustworthy).

- Rejection - I expect to be rejected (unwanted) if I make the first move or declare feelings. If I am discussing arts, talents, writing, psychology, philosophy, books we're reading; I feel like someone might fall for me. I have confidence in being interesting, different, in opening people up emotionally, connecting on deep intellectual levels etc. Although, I tend to fall for men who are smarter/ better at music/ more gorgeous/ more interesting, and then feel that I don't measure up, and worry he will ultimately reject me because I'm not as much of X as he is. And it's this weird mix of - he is very X and I have a lot of X too - so we belong together, but he is more X than me, so am I enough? This leads to a competition that turns me on & inspires me creatively. It also makes me feel like I come up short, which simultaneously turns me on & makes me feel unworthy.

But showing my feelings is THE WORST. I am absolutely certain, the minute I show I care, I will be rejected. I would be better off luring him with my creativity until he can't resist. But my feelings about my actions being "too much," "too intense," compete with my desire to show him ALL OF ME and be 'myself' and lay myself bare & be accepted even with my intensity. So I end up showing my feelings a little, then feeling like he'll step back because I was too honest, yet isn't that what I want? To be honest? It's a conflict.

I show my appreciation, adoration, or feelings in instances, then hate myself for it, and withdraw, hoping he will contact me again, but feeling too ashamed to do it myself. Usually this works - the person contacts me, and the fear subsides momentarily, until the next time I show feelings. This is a drastic improvement from my past, when I would never show feelings to avoid being rejected, and men I was crazy about would think I was rejecting them, or just not interested 'that way.' :/

This Naranjo quote sums up my life:
_Sexual IV "If I show love or affection, they'll betray me. Therefore, its not good to show love because it causes harm."_

Although, I would reword it: _If I show love or affection, they'll reject me. 
_
That being said, I'm not attached to the aforementioned issues being '4ish.' I'm wondering at other possibilities, especially because I'm more worried about "you don't _want_ me" than "you will_ leave_ me." I don't want to be where I'm not wanted, so if the person doesn't want me with every bone in their body, I'd rather be abandoned. I fear someone staying with me out of complacency, guilt, security or other reasons, when they don't really want me. So I ward against this, perhaps partially by being difficult. 

I am expressive, open-hearted, honest, and empathetic, but I am not willing to change who I am to earn someone's love, only to be tossed aside later when the truth comes out. I make it clear: I am not security. I am unpredictable. I am not cooking & cleaning up after you, I am not paying your rent. I'm a tornado, not a wife. My creations are my kids - and I don't want to have your kids. I'm politically incorrect, socially awkward, self-absorbed, careful about withholding my overly generous nature, distant, caught up in my projects, openly bragging _and_ openly self-loathing, late, crazy, and don't wear makeup or heels except on stage. If someone loves me, he loves me for _me_. Only then, will he begin to see the extent of my true vulnerability, kindness, generosity and openness. Only then, will he know how deeply and desperately I yearn for his touch. Only then will he see me cry for him. But he will never see me beg. The minute he doesn't want me, I will turn into a brick wall, at least when he is looking.


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## HellCat (Jan 17, 2013)

I would be curious to hear abandonment, rejection and betrayal discussed, and how they manifest in types, and in yourself.

- What is the difference between the three?

- Which one is associated with which type?

- How do you experience fear of abandonment, betrayal, or rejection personally? Do you relate to some more than others?


*
Abandonment: detachment without explanation. Not necessarily left behind physically. 

rejection: Being dismissed as if you do not exist, your thoughts ignored, being worshipped is just as dehumanizing and a form of rejection and hatred. 

betrayal: Lying. Disclosing a secret. gossiping, cutting someone down, cursing someones dreams, name calling, disrespect, not fighting fairly 

*
Personally. For me. I don't really take it personally from people outside of family or in a relationship.. friends can lie, I barely notice. 


Abandonment: I am a loner. I have been taking care of myself physically and emotionally since I was a toddler. Abandonment does not even register to me. I actually prefer to be alone.. If I talk to you at all, you must be a fascinating person. If its daily.. even more so. I do not like a great deal of socializing, intimacy, touchy feely anything. 

I think its cowardly and I lose all respect when someone withdraws to emotionally manipulate a situation. 



Rejection: I seldom speak superfluously. If I have something to say it is important. So when I am ignored or the subject is changed on me, deflected, in a conversation with someone I actually respect enough to let close. I have a hard time deciding if I want to keep that person in my life another day. Because I would never disrespect them in this manner. I consider it a painful dismissal of someone's humanity. 

Its never an issue with "men" and rejection. I have not had one yet decide to end anything. If they did My reaction would be more like "You poor foolish bastard have fun with the drama, crocodile tears and boring and seriously lacking intellect of "normal" women." I have the ego of Scarlett O Hara.


I do have serious issues showing love and affection. Cannot even say the word. I suppose that is linked to rejection somehow. I have never built enough trust yet.. to be openly spontaneously so.. sexually is another story, I am often accused of being a succubus. That is hardly affection though, more like an image worship mind fuck game. If we are being honest. 

Betrayal: I am well acquainted with betrayal. My cult leader father spent yrs brainwashing my exhusband into a sort of manchurian candidate to gaslight and emotionally blackmail and terrorize me, while simultaneously telling the family I was the bully. Two years ago I found out most of my life was a lie. Lots of melodrama, gossip, back and forth wondering if I was crazy and imagining it all.. very much a made for TV horror movie I lived through and would kill before I had to return to the abyss. 

Now I am so hypersensitive to it I will just walk away. I don't care what it costs me. I just walk away and never look back. I would never lie to someone I am close to, I refuse to gossip, I do not disclose secrets, I absolutely refuse to wound someones spirit at all. I would never cut their dreams down and if I respect you enough to argue with you at all, you must be somewhat important and I would never jeopardize someones dignity. 

I consider name calling, Lying. Disclosing a secret. gossiping, cutting someone down, cursing someones dreams, name calling, disrespect, not fighting fairly disrespect, juvenile immature bullshit 

The most soul crushing thing a person can go through with another human. I hold others close to me to the same standards as I treat them. I am often too merciful, wondering if I was oversensitive in judging someones behaviour and then having them turn around and pull the same con. I am changing that.

As a frozen 7 I would say my mantra is "emotions cause pain. " I related greatly to the Snow Queen from the new Disney film. 

Don't let them in, don't let them see.
Be the good girl you always have to be.
Conceal, don't feel, don't let them know.

I would not say I was a "good girl" persay. I fluctuated between wild as hell who hung out with bikers playing pool and drinking with men twice my age in jr high.. to the perfect popular A student. I guess it depends on my mood. I'm not "good" for anyone now. But when I was younger I was "good" by suppressing my intellect, talents, emotion and downplayed looks because it threatened my mothers, both of them. 

I love my inner bitch. She is the first person anyone I meet encounters, before I decide if they are trustworthy enough to see my inner Disney princess I can't seem to kill off with that rat poison. 

My respect is earned. If you have integrity, I respect you..If you don't. I don't acknowledge your existence. 

I am the Van Helsing of bitches. Guy friends use me to vet their gfs because pretty soon the claws come out and they reveal themselves to me. All I have to do is smile and be in the room long enough, rawr.


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## 7rr7s (Jun 6, 2011)

Abandonment is either someone leaving without any warning, catching my off guard, or someone cutting me out of their life without any word or reason why. To a lesser degree, when someone leaves me for someone else whether that's a friend or a lover. They all get to me, but in different ways. 

In the first example, I feel unprepared and pissed off that they left. Abandoning the post, the project, the team, the group, ect. When someone does that it pisses me off because that means I might be vulnerable or have to pick up the pieces. It also shows their lack of integrity and commitment. 

If someone cuts me out of their life without any reason or word, I'm left wondering why, and it's the not knowing that fucks with me the most. I start questioning everything. Did I do something wrong? Am I not good enough? Are they mad at me? Did I hurt them? Did I come on too strong? Do they think I'm too good or not good enough for them? That line of questioning inevitably turns to Will I ever hear from them again? What will happen if they come back into my life? Can they be forgiven for this? This feels especially painful if we've established some sort of bond. If we had a really good friendship or really good chemistry, or any sort of history, platonic or romantic. Not only painful in the sense that I feel worthless, that they could say things like "you're such a great friend" or "I'll never forget you" or things like that, and then just throw me away as if I didn't even matter, but painful that they gave me no reason why they did that. 

It's also very painful to reveal my heart and me deep side to them and then have them cut me out, and it's for this reason that I'm pretty guarded. It also makes me feel vulnerable knowing that they have seen that side of me. It makes me question whether I can trust them. 



Betrayal happens when someone goes against my back, turns on me, lies, cheats, hurts, or sabotages me if they are someone I wouldn't have expected that from like a friend, lover, or family member. It's devastating. I had my trust violated as a child (not in an abusive way, just saw that NO ONE can be trusted %100) and ever since then I'm very wary of everyone. I don't trust easily and when someone breaks it, (depending on how bad it is) there is one warning. After that they are no longer a part of my life. If it's a serious violation of trust, they can expect brutal retaliation and revenge. For me, trust is like respect -it's earned. But I the only one I trust completely is myself. 



Rejection happens if they don't like me, or some part of me. Now, I've always felt alone, not in a romantic sense, but more of an existential loneliness. I feel like I rejected the world before it could reject me. At the same time, I've felt rejected before and it used to bother me, but I've gotten a better view of it, and it forces me to become better than whatever they were rejecting. I'm talking every level of rejection;rejection from friends, rejection from family, rejection from women, from job interviews, from social circles, rejection of my art, even more of a deeper kind of rejection like people rejecting my lifestyle, values, thoughts ect. 

Not sure I handle it the best way, and it kind of varies. Sometimes it's no big deal and I laugh about it, sometimes I get narcissistic and think WTF really? REALLY? You're turning down THIS? WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU?! Sometimes I think about ways to improve that part of myself. Sometimes I get angry about it. "Motherfucker think you're hot shit huh? You aint shit!" I always try to learn from it though. Especially when it comes to business. Why are they rejecting me? How can I make it so that doesn't happen? What is it they want? Ect.


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## Animal (May 29, 2012)

LeoCat said:


> I think its cowardly and I lose all respect when someone withdraws to emotionally manipulate a situation.


This is why I get in trouble. When I feel rejected I withdraw. I'm not trying to 'manipulate' - in 99% of cases, if the person contacts me, and I want to talk to them, I answer promptly. None of these "I'm not talking to you" games. But if I feel rejected I am unlikely to contact them first. However, the minute they contact me, then my 'rejection fear' is assuaged and there aren't grudges.

Some people have mistaken this (me waiting for them to call me) for rejection or lack of interest on my part. Would you call that manipulation? Don't worry I won't be mad if you would  just curious. It'll be insightful for me to hear it . 

There are also times when my feelings prevent me from picking up the phone. Someone hurts me, and half of me wants to talk to them, but I'm just staring at the texts or calls and can't bring myself to answer. I'm not trying to control them, win, prove something etc. It's just my hands won't do the motion. I can't do it. I need time. I would confront them head-on, in an honest fashion, after sorting myself out; but I'm not ready yet, so I withdraw, compulsively. I swear this is not on purpose its a compulsion. Would that be manipulation?


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## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

Animal said:


> But showing my feelings is THE WORST. I am absolutely certain, the minute I show I care, I will be rejected.


Did you ever think of *why *you feel that way? Why do you feel overwhelming people so much?

That being said, I can't think of a single person who wouldn't feel vulnerable and insecure around a romantic interest, even a 'badass 8'.



> I fear someone staying with me out of complacency, guilt, security or other reasons, when they don't really want me.


I relate to this a lot. Very Sx, IMO.



Animal said:


> - In type 4: "I will be abandoned/rejected because I am not enough." "I fucked up." "I pushed him away." Etc. Self-blaming mentality. "If I reveal too much of my feelings I will drive him away, but if I don't, he won't love me for me. But how can he love me for me when I am so flawed and I keep fucking up?" You will never live up to your ideals, your ideal self, so this person couldn't accept you as you are, and obviously it's your own damn fault for being so pathetic as to fail to live up to your own ideals. But you want someone to accept you with all of that (even though you don't accept yourself). [Is this fear of abandonment or rejection?]


Being flawed isn't about 'fucking up' though. It's not about making mistakes or errors, it's about inner lack. I also don't really worry about showing how I feel. My emotions show so much, and I'm very obvious when I'm into someone, so obvious that I never had to actually say the words 'I like you'. But what I DO worry about, is *how people see me*, *how they'll feel about me if they see beyond the things I like about myself. *When they sides of me that I dislike intensely.

Do you dislike anything about yourself, personality wise? If you could, what would you change about yourself, again with regards to identity and personality? Do you worry about people seeing those sides of you?

_You will never live up to your ideals, your ideal self, so this person couldn't accept you as you are, and obviously it's your own damn fault for being so pathetic as to fail to live up to your own ideals._

I don't really blame myself that way? Like it's my fault vs theirs. It's more self-directed frustration at not being this or that way, even if it's a ridiculous standard. I don't know, the wording here feels off somehow.

PS: Oh, I also don't worry about betrayal, the thought of it doesn't really cross my mind unless the person starts lying or whatever. I just don't really think about it that much.


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## Animal (May 29, 2012)

kaleidoscope said:


> Did you ever think of *why *you feel that way? Why do you feel overwhelming people so much?


I don't know. Its a good question. I feel i'm too intense.
Maybe because my feelings overwhelm *me* so I feel they would overwhelm someone else?



> That being said, I can't think of a single person who wouldn't feel vulnerable and insecure around a romantic interest, even a 'badass 8'.


Yeah I agree.




> Being flawed isn't about 'fucking up' though. It's not about making mistakes or errors, it's about inner lack. I also don't really worry about showing how I feel. My emotions show so much, and I'm very obvious when I'm into someone, so obvious that I never had to actually say the words 'I like you'. But what I DO worry about, is *how people see me*, *how they'll feel about me if they see beyond the things I like about myself. *When they sides of me that I dislike intensely.
> 
> Do you dislike anything about yourself, personality wise? If you could, what would you change about yourself, again with regards to identity and personality? Do you worry about people seeing those sides of you?
> 
> ...


Yeah.. makes sense. I am not attached to the wording or the ideas. Was trying to get it concise/ get to the point of differences. Feel free to elaborate more on what you would write for 4 vs. other types?


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## Animal (May 29, 2012)

kaleidoscope said:


> Do you dislike anything about yourself, personality wise? If you could, what would you change about yourself, again with regards to identity and personality? Do you worry about people seeing those sides of you?


There are things I would change, yes. Some of which I actively work to change, and some of which I feel I cannot change.

As for whether I'd worry about people seeing it - yes and no. Part of me worries, and another part of me wants them to see exactly that because then they love me for who I am rather than who I'm not.


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## heaveninawildflower (Feb 5, 2012)

Animal said:


> - How do you experience fear of abandonment, betrayal, or rejection personally? Do you relate to some more than others?



*Betrayal:*
When I let someone into my life, and then that person does something against me. For example... I took someone under my wing for years. This person was hurt by their parents very deeply and I took on more of a mothering role for this person. Then one day, that person turned against me after I caught them in some lies and they started all kinds of trouble and drama. So I cut that person out of my life. I was so mad that I wasted so much time on this person. And I felt used by them. So I disappear from their life (when I feel betrayed) and I make sure they have no way to contact me again.

*Abandonment: *
When I was younger, in my late teens and early twenties, this fear came out through codependency (yes, I had codependency issues back then). I have been through the pain of abandonment so I don't fear this anymore. 

*Rejection: *


spirited-angel said:


> When I am around others, I know I will never measure up, I know they will see my flaws if they get to close to me, I know I will be rejected. So I keep my distance from others because it hurts to be who I am.


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

Animal said:


> *- What is the difference between the three?*


Dictionary definitions apply, but I will expand in a way useful to your query in a bit.



> *
> - Which one is associated with which type?*


Here's my issue with Enneagram crap. A lot of things should not be categorized, the way some do, by type. Of course, some of these line up with the core cognitive distortions of certain types, seeming more like triggers for said type than others. That's all there is to it. Abandonment, rejection and betrayal are a part of the human condition. So, it's not a question of strict association. 

If anyone says that they have never felt or never been sensitive to any of this, they are lying or haven't lived worth shit. Keeping in mind that in some for or another, regardless of which term we use (I have been in situations that therapists have termed abandonment but what I felt was betrayal, and these were significant life shaping events in my childhood. So, technically it was abandonment but I felt betrayed), all of these will be a part of one's experiences in life, the following address your question:-

*Rejection:
*


> All three of rejection types go through life expecting to be rejected and so they defend themselves against this feeling in various ways. They repress their own genuine needs and vulnerabilities, attempting to offer some service, ability, or resource as a hedge against further rejection. *Twos* feel that they must be so good that others will not reject them. They cover over a feeling of underlying worthlessness and the fear that they are not really wanted by trying to please others so much that others will not dare reject or abandon them. Unlike Twos who feel that they are good, *Eights* feel that they are innately bad, and will likely be rejected unless they are so powerful and in control of life’s necessities that others will dare not reject them. Further, Eights adopt a "tough" stance toward life—in effect, bracing themselves for rejection and trying to not care in the event that they actually are rejected. *Fives* feel negligible, on the sidelines of life, and that they therefore must know something or have some special skill so useful to others that they will not be rejected. Like Eights, Fives also reduce the pain of rejection by cutting off from their feelings about it. All three of these types offer some service or skill as a way of staving off rejection. Twos offer their caring and affection; Eights offer their strength; and Fives offer their knowledge and expertise.


Sx firsts, of any type, can be very sensitive to and insecure about romantic rejection. It can be more of a trigger for them than it is for others. Issues of how much to reveal, the regulation of intensity when it threatens the charged in-synch chemistry between self and object of interest, is very common among Sx firsts and strong Sx seconds. For Sx firsts, it's always tied in with rejection among other things. Sx seconds may or may not fear this type of rejection. 
*
Betrayal
*

Reactives are seen as particularly sensitive to issues of trust and truth, so betrayal may be more of a pesky trigger for them, especially 6 and 8.It seems like for 4s not being valued for who they are and thus being rejected (perceived as being unworthy) would be akin to the "reactive" version of betrayal, even if it is experienced as an *abandonment fear*. 

_*Aside:-*_ In general, nobody likes being lied to in important matters (some even get upset if it's over small matters) or being severely disrespected especially with impunity, being backstabbed or sabotaged behind your back by a person you considered a friend or things shared in confidence being leaked all over the place or, in my case, showing emotional vulnerability only for someone to trample all over it, or having a person, you like or love, suddenly start nipping at your heels like a rabid fuckin common cur even if the only damage incurred is on their dumbass end. My idea of what it is to be betrayed is very similar to @_KindofBlue_'s. 

Being challenged, getting into heated as hell arguments, having fights and disagreements is not betrayal to me. I like a worthy opponent. More on betrayal and what it means to me in the last section. 

*
Abandonment*

Abandonment, as I've come to realize through my work with some kinds of trauma survivors, DV victims or, briefly, with foster children, is too complicated an issue to be foolishly stripped along type lines. But, in a very loose sense, given the severe limitations of current Enneagram scholarship, it's associated 'more' with 4s and 6s.

I've already addressed the 4's abandonment fear above. That's akin to 'betrayal' in a reactive sense as stated.

For 6s, it has more to do with loss of support and being left alone to grapple with life. Of course, anyone who fears abandonment would have an element of their self-worth tied in with it. But, that's not the main reason why abandonment triggers a 6. It has far more to do with support than the perception of worthiness. 



> *-How do you experience fear of abandonment, betrayal, or rejection personally? Do you relate to some more than others? *


Ah, important word I missed earlier- the fear of ...but that's fine. I got you. 


Everyone experiences some of this and wants to avoid (fear in a sense) of all that shit. But, in terms of how I have interpreted life events and what has triggered me personally, betrayal has been most significant. 

*Abandonment:-*

When my father died, I welcomed it as his freedom from unending misery. But, when his absence started stinging the hell out of my 10 year old heart, I got extremely angry. I didn't feel abandoned (a lot of children experience the loss of a parent as abandonment which it technically is whether they deliberately leave or die) but betrayed. I would shout at his picture on the wall and get very angry at him for betraying me by dying. I would say things like...we were supposed to travel the world and you were supposed to do this and that ...and we were going to do this next year...and i was going to hug you every day...and have you at my graduation and read to you when you were old and be the best daughter ever and you DIED! XD I felt like he had snatched life's vitality from me by dying. And, his death left me under the precarious care of an insane and abusive woman. So, the feeling of abandonment should have been strong in me. All I felt was betrayal, but it only lasted about a week. It's a part of the grieving process to feel betrayed by the deceased, often just for the fact that dared to die on you lol. 

Later, when my mother and I were disowned and so on, I experienced that as betrayal though abandonment (by definition) was part of it. It was a tremendous violation of trust, love and respect for the very people who you believed loved you to go behind your back and orchestrate something so fuckin cowardly a few hours after a parent's funeral. 

That's just scratching the surface. Many..very serious events in my life, particularly early childhood, would rightly be interpreted as abandonment but I felt betrayal. Even when I am broken up with in a way that would indicate abandonment (happened only once), like my first break up where I had no closure, I saw it as betrayal not abandonment. Generally, I am not very sensitive to being broken up with or whatever. I see it as the other person's loss. But, when a retarded fuckin sissy who ends a relationship over email or suddenly breaks up 2 days after telling you that you are 'perfect' for them (this has happened once, and oh he fuckin suffered), then I experience it as betrayal because it's a violation of respect and the trust you place in a partner to, at least, not suddenly pull the rug from under your feet and deny you the respect and right of having closure. 
_*
What does betrayal mean to me (and other stuffz)?*_

- severe disrespect or blaring insensitivity, especially shown during a time of emotional vulnerability, by someone i respect/love

- BIG lies, major dishonesty

- sabotaging my progress, again, behind my back when i happen to like you.

- violation of privacy, sharing private details (not random details or harmless gossip cuz I don't give a shit) with others that were relayed in confidence

- springing an unpleasant 'surprise' on my ass when i am fuckin walkng around thinking all's well. i hate some dumb tool, who i make the mistake of loving or liking, pulling the rug from under my feet. i've had people i thought were friends, harbour severe mistrust towards to me that they never communicated with me, go rabid little cur on me out of nowhere. a few times, this was done when i was "down" like the fuckin sissies didn't have the balls to challenge me outright until my back was nearly (and temporarily XD) broken, figuratively speaking.

yet, i prevail, even when ruined. no matter what, i've always known that i get the hell back up and more than outlast whatever is thrown my way.  so they can lick that. besides, my issue is not my own endurance since that's unshakeable, but their abject lack of a fuckin backbone. but yeah, that is a mix of dishonesty and pansy ass garbage that I NEVER forgive. i have so much respect for an honest and powerful adversary. so much respect. no wonder i get along with 1s with an impassioned hate for me  

____________

- related to above is my dislike of people acting all chummy and then going behind my back to orchestrate pointless theatrics. this is more annoyance (mild to severe depending on incident) than anger inducing. 

if you have something to say to me or some issue or problem walk the fuck up to me and bark. that's all you have to do. i respect a person who is straight with me, even said person hates my guts. that's a non issue. backdoor bullshit is just that..bullshit, particularly when it comes from a 'friend'. everyone else can kiss my ass. 

it's (a lesser form of) betrayal when it comes from someone i respect/ trust a lot and involves copious amounts of prolonged shit stirring, as KoB wisely said in his post. from others, it's an annoyance at worst, if i am in a bad mood, and fmp just something i am highly likely to laugh off and find amusing. 

fwiw, because of my polarizing personality, this backdoor silly rubbish has been a running theme in my life. a lot of people either avoid me altogether or act like wimpy fuckwits mired in persecutorial delusions. that solves nothing. :3 just makes me want to smack em more for shits and giggles. 

at the same time, there are some genuinely sensitive people who approach me directly, take responsibility and communicate as equals not as wusses, and walk away with solutions (and at times life long friendships) that work tremendously well. 


*
Rejection:-*

I am strangely not very sensitive to rejection. I have felt rejected when I was rejected from a grad school I wanted to attend. That's probably the only time I felt rejected personally. I was pretty angry, though the alternative turned out better than the initially desired school lol. Oh, there was some job I wanted, years ago, and lost out on to a shitstain on competence of a 'rival'. I felt the rejection from the job and was angry at first, but I didn't take it personally (As a personal slight) because I genuinely felt it was their loss for losing out on my greatness XD and going for an asslicking incompetent buffoon. It turned out to be a blessing in disguise, so no regrets.

Romantically, I don't feel rejection much. @_Animal_ knows of what happened recently. It was shocking as hell, and a lot of people would have felt rejected to say the least. But, I didn't experience it as rejection. I experienced a mix of emotions but rejection wasn't a part. Even when I am broken up with, I don't feel rejected. If they are a dumbass, I think it's their loss. If it's more or less mutual, then I feel like it was a sound decision. I don't take it personally.

As for people in general, I have the kind of personality that majorly chaps asses en masse. :laughing: I was this way even as a child. Being disliked doesn't surprise me.  I enjoy it. Seriously, if most people like you...it's like you've likely not done much real living. The only people whose affirmation matters to me are those I care for/consider good friends/am close to/love deeply. And, I am quite okay with people in these categories disliking aspects of me or disagreeing with me strongly. But, yeah, generally, I am not all that sensitive to being rejected by others.


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## Figure (Jun 22, 2011)

To be honest, I wouldn't know if I fear abandonment or betrayal because if I do, it's very much unconscious. If I ever feel that way, the feeling is usually not allowed to develop naturally because the Superego literally says "that's irrational, and you're not permitted to feel that." If I ever feel "abandoned," I simply get angry at myself for having felt so, and move on in my own direction with more conviction than usual. My Superego tells me I ultimately don't need others emotionally to do what I need to do in life, and I heed that advice. 

_Rejection _is the one of the three I am most conscious of. My natural ideas, fluid emotions, and drives were criticized all the time as a kid, so I very early realized that I had to work hard to do the "right" thing, that would make me "unfaultable." My parents used to laugh at me for puppy love, or tell me I didn't have a right to have the emotions I did have. So, I stamped all of it out and learned how to "clean" it up, which has now become a trigger for my anger - rejection, included. Whatever feelings were there are converted into irritation, and I simply become more explosive, belligerent, etc because I'm trying my absolute hardest to conform to my inner structure and there was clearly a breach of that. It plays through my head all the time - you're not doing X well enough, if you share Y with someone else they'll think you're a total loser, you need to learn how to do Z better - what's that, can't do it? You're completely unworthy of any kind of respect. And by the way, you're also not allowed to feel butthurt about it either." I may look stonefaced and will myself through situations that others buckle under, but it comes at a price, because I do have a sensitive side that I have a very bad habit of ignoring. I anticipate rejection and am brutal to myself before others can be - imagine what it becomes when someone _does_ say something, and I can't match what's being expected. 

In reality, I'm usually the one doing more of the rejecting (not outright or of people I care about, but certainly through being a very critical person), and I'm really surprised when people aren't as critical of me as I was expecting them to be. As far as I know you either accept something or reject it, no in between - and typically, even if I do accept, I do so _without having any clue of what it really means to "accept." _I absolutely love it when others are aware of things I want to change about myself but can't and see them as being fine the way they are. The most caring thing a friend or lover could do for me is to simply be okay with me as I come. It's a way of sharing in my constant self-improvement which, ironically, is to not "try to improve" at all.


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## Chesire Tower (Jan 19, 2013)

I actually can handle betrayal, the best. Why? because, when I feel betrayed I get pissed and seek justice. TRANSLATION: I don't feel shame and/or beat up on myself.

Abandonment: Being ignored by someone I care greatly about, devastates me.

Rejection: I put on this puffed up persona that rejection doesn't faze me in the slightest. TRUTH: depending on WHOM is doing the rejecting: I can live or die on the feelings of shame, it produces in me.


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## Arya (Oct 17, 2012)

My first thought was I'm not affected by any of those. Not sure who I'm trying to convince here, but I guess, to an extent that's largely true, since I find that I tend to shrug stuff off and move on, because I'm somewhat indifferent to most people....Not trying to sound completely calloused here, but I tend to think, "Oh well. Who will I be friends with now?" etc. if I get rejected, abandoned whatever. Of course, I'm particularly immune to rejection, since most people who reject me were never close to me in the first place. You're just stupid if you try to betray me. When I think of betrayal I think of people lying to me or playing games with me that will hurt me, and I'm just not so dumb that I can't tell. It will usually lead to why the hell are you doing this from me. I wouldn't unfriend someone generally over a betrayal. I don't have to. They'll unfriend me. It makes me shrug. People generally don't reject me, abandon me, or betray me. I have always tried to create open communication between people I'm around, so that they'll tell me their concerns rather than lashing out at me. I'm also fairly picky about my friends. If I start getting danger signals from you, I'll be friendly but won't make an effort to connect. Most people will tell me I'm the most dramaless person they know. That's because I don't play into stupid games, get into jealous rivalries, put up with manipulation, or put up with passive aggression, and most people respect me for that. I also don't get back at people. If they want to come back at some point and apologize for horrible behavior than it's all in the past. I'll be your friend, although it's also true that I won't ever give you the chance to try ruining my life again, because I'll pay attention to anything you do or say from that point on. I think betrayal tends to annoy me the most, because those are generally the people who lie and plays games and manipulate, and I prefer the straight truth.


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## braided pain (Jul 6, 2012)

Abandonment-- when I experience this it's usually as loss of backup. You know that scene in countless school and workplace comedies where our hero leads a group into the overbearing boss's office to complain, then turns around to find the group is gone? Yeah, that. Less funny when it happens to me.:bored: I get sad, then accept it; I tell myself I shouldn't have expected any more than that, but there's a sick feeling in my gut.

Betrayal-- grrrr. The unforgivable sin, in that there is simply no way the relationship can be repaired; once trust is gone, it's gone. I define betrayal as deliberately misleading me, sharing my confidences with others, or otherwise abusing my trust. Makes me fighting mad and hurts like hell, moreso because I feel like I should have seen it coming and beat myself up for being a fool. A whole body pain, the kind of pain that never really goes away.

Rejection-- being unwanted. Sharp stabby pain. Leaves me torn between wondering what's wrong with me and blaming them for missing out. Oddly brings up more revenge fantasies than the other two, though the pain goes away in a week or so.


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## d e c a d e n t (Apr 21, 2013)

Hmm, I wouldn't say I worry about betrayal much, but then I haven't really experienced it either. When it comes to other people, my problem is mostly about making and keeping friends, so I worry more about rejection.


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## chimeric (Oct 15, 2011)

I relate to what other 4s have written. I experience actions that probably qualify as betrayal as rejection/abandonment instead ("what is wrong with me that caused so-and-so to behave that way?"). Betrayal really messes with my head.


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## Sixty Nein (Feb 13, 2011)

I honestly don't know. I'd honestly just view them all as being the same thing really. Outside of Rejection, which is a thing in it's own self however I'd perceive abandonment and betrayal as the same thing y'know.


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## Animal (May 29, 2012)

chimeric said:


> I relate to what other 4s have written. *I experience actions that probably qualify as betrayal as rejection/abandonment instead ("what is wrong with me that caused so-and-so to behave that way?")*. Betrayal really messes with my head.


^ Exactly.

Thinking about this now, there is some narcissism to it. What makes me think I could have controlled their reaction? Yet I always think I could have.. if only. If only I had been better, more perfect, if I were ENOUGH, they wouldn't have rejected me, hurt me, abandoned me, lied, etc.


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## Hespera (Jun 3, 2011)

Myoho Traveller said:


> I actually can handle betrayal, the best. Why? because, when I feel betrayed I get pissed and seek justice. TRANSLATION: I don't feel shame and/or beat up on myself.
> 
> Abandonment: Being ignored by someone I care greatly about, devastates me.
> 
> Rejection: I put on this puffed up persona that rejection doesn't faze me in the slightest. TRUTH: depending on WHOM is doing the rejecting: I can live or die on the feelings of shame, it produces in me.


I definitely agree with this. At first I thought that Betrayal would hurt me the most, but I've been betrayed recently and I although it makes me sad, the anger really helps. 

I'm pretty used to Rejection at this point, so I'd like to say it doesn't bother me, but it secretly makes me really insecure.

Abandonment is probably my worst fear. Part of it is dependency issues, but to me abandonment is worse than rejection because it is complete and utter and senseless. First someone is there and then *poof* they're gone for no reason, forever. 

I guess for me it works kind of like Superego/Ego/Id: Betrayal is more related to my Superego, as I generally feel more self-righteous and better than the person who betrayed me. Rejection is a more conscious Ego fixation, an assault against my sense of self. And then Abandonment is far deeper and less conscious, but strongest. 

That last paragraph was a bit much, but there you go.


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