# Being an adult Virgin



## MisterPerfect (Nov 20, 2015)

Being an adult virgin. Whats it feel like, do you feel stigmatized for it, do you feel odd around people around you talking about sex when you never had it? Also yes, I am one too.


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## Noctis (Apr 4, 2012)

Adult virgin here too. I too feel stigmatized for it and odd around people me talking about sex when I never had it.


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## Veggie (May 22, 2011)

I feel stigmatized as an adult non virgin when I get into debates with virgins with very strong and basically unfounded opinions...

We all face the outside in some way or another I guess.


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## Belzy (Aug 12, 2013)

I don't care much about it. I sometimes am sad of never having had a love relationship, that's what I wish for (first).

I'm not a typical anything, also when it comes to fitting into a love relationship with someone.


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## broken_line (Apr 23, 2016)

Veggie said:


> I feel stigmatized as an adult non virgin when I get into debates with virgins with very strong and basically unfounded opinions...
> 
> We all face the outside in some way or another I guess.


Ok, I'll be that guy. The emotional distress that a person receives for being labeled a slut isn't even remotely comparable to the emotional distress a person feels when they are considered completely undesirable to the opposite sex. Yes, slut shamming is bad, but it's like complaining to a homeless person that you feel inferior because your summer house on the shore is two streets back and not on the waterfront like all your friends.


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## Emerald Legend (Jul 13, 2010)

Whats it feel like, 
It feels shitty. 

do you feel stigmatized for it?
No, but it does give way to self-hatred.
I think there's a huge possibility of stigma if I ever decided to date, as I'm an old virgin, and women are definitely not expecting that/would not know how to deal with the fact.

do you feel odd around people around you talking about sex when you never had it?
I do, but I just politely listen, if asked for opinion/experience I let them know I have none.


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## Veggie (May 22, 2011)

broken_line said:


> Ok, I'll be that guy. The emotional distress that a person receives for being labeled a slut isn't even remotely comparable to the emotional distress a person feels when they are considered completely undesirable to the opposite sex. Yes, slut shamming is bad, but it's like complaining to a homeless person that you feel inferior because your summer house on the shore is two streets back and not on the waterfront like all your friends.


I don't care if virgins call me a slut. Nor do I feel at all inferior.

It's the lack of respect that can get annoying.

I know a thing or two when it comes to romantic relationships and sex. Whether they were a "success" (what does that even really mean?) or not.

I'm always surprised by how many contributors to these kinds of discussions (who act like they're like hardcore BDSM or something) eventually out themselves and actually have no clue what they're talking about.

If this were math club or something I sure as hell wouldn't be getting away with that in equivalence...


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## Witch of Oreo (Jun 23, 2014)

> Whats it feel like


Feels like crap and missing out. Bad enough to the point I don't even picture myself in fantasies. It's always someone else, not me. Not even cuckold.


> do you feel stigmatized for it


Of course I do. Even if nobody laughs at me and shoves it in my face, it doesn't help. I know very well I'm undesirable either way, so I'm starting to give up altogether.


> do you feel odd around people around you talking about sex when you never had it


Not exactly.


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## broken_line (Apr 23, 2016)

Veggie said:


> I'm always surprised by how many contributors to these kinds of discussions (who act like they're like hardcore BDSM or something) eventually out themselves and actually have no clue what they're talking about.


I'm confused what that has to do with this thread?


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## MisterPerfect (Nov 20, 2015)

broken_line said:


> Ok, I'll be that guy. The emotional distress that a person receives for being labeled a slut isn't even remotely comparable to the emotional distress a person feels when they are considered completely undesirable to the opposite sex. Yes, slut shamming is bad, but it's like complaining to a homeless person that you feel inferior because your summer house on the shore is two streets back and not on the waterfront like all your friends.


Well that is an interesting perspective auctually. As a Virgin I never felt undesirable or less sexy for "Not having sex". I felt less sexy when I felt as though it was impossible for me to get a date. Also I seem to give off more appeal with my utter lack of interest since it means im harder to get. Which turns some people on. I kind of see your reasoning for why someone might feel that way though. I place more importance in being datable vs fuckable though. I also wear my virginity like a badge of honor. Like look at what a pure untainted saint I am.



Emerald Legend said:


> Whats it feel like,
> It feels shitty.
> 
> do you feel stigmatized for it?
> ...


Dont feel bad man, if the only reason a girl wont talk to you is purely the fact you are a VIRGIN and nothing like disliking your personality or something she probobly a shallow bitch and not someone you want to waste your efforts on anyways. Be proud of who you are! Dont worry about people who dont get it. 



Veggie said:


> I don't care if virgins call me a slut. Nor do I feel at all inferior.
> 
> It's the lack of respect that can get annoying.
> 
> ...


I can see your frustration but what does any of what any of us have said do with "BDSM"?



slowcoffee said:


> Feels like crap and missing out. Bad enough to the point I don't even picture myself in fantasies. It's always someone else, not me. Not even cuckold.
> 
> Of course I do. Even if nobody laughs at me and shoves it in my face, it doesn't help. I know very well I'm undesirable either way, so I'm starting to give up altogether.
> 
> Not exactly.


Dont say that, no one is undesirable, someone has something someone will like.  No matter what hieght, shape or size.


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## Veggie (May 22, 2011)

broken_line said:


> I'm confused what that has to do with this thread?


I'm confused about how you're "that guy" who has to explain to me that his pain is worse than mine as a supposed slut. I never said I was a slut. Lol.

That specifically - post quoted - has to do with this thread because of a debate I got into with a certain someone who was trying to, like, school me on how kink works when they're apparently a virgin.


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## Veggie (May 22, 2011)

EddyNash said:


> Like look at what a pure untainted saint I am.


Why is being a virgin pure and saintly?

You could argue that it means that you don't trust in the purity of god enough to take risks.


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## Grandmaster Yoda (Jan 18, 2014)

I'm going to aspire to be a really good Uncle rather than a good father.


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## broken_line (Apr 23, 2016)

Veggie said:


> That specifically - post quoted - has to do with this thread because of a debate I got into with a certain someone who was trying to, like, school me on how kink works when they're apparently a virgin.


Well, that's weird. Seems pretty unrelated to a thread. A virgin said something stupid to you so you go say something stupid in a thread about virgins? Isn't that sort of like if a black person does something stupid and then you dislike all blacks as a resul



Veggie said:


> You could argue that it means that you don't trust in the purity of god enough to take risks.


This quote seems to misunderstand the issue. Lot's of virgins aren't that way because they choose to, they are that way because nobody ever gave them the proverbial, "yes". That doesn't mean they never took risks, it means they took them and were rejected, labeled a creep or had someone laugh in their face.


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## Gossip Goat (Nov 19, 2013)




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## Veggie (May 22, 2011)

broken_line said:


> Well, that's weird. Seems pretty unrelated to a thread. A virgin said something stupid to you so you go say something stupid in a thread about virgins? Isn't that sort of like if a black person does something stupid and then you dislike all blacks as a result?


You're making this weird :laughing:

Why are we talking about black people.

That's like... strawman of the century there.

Some virgins are probably virgins for reasons other than being more righteous or kinky or open minded or whatever their stories than the rest of us.

And a lot are probably not as undesirable as they think that they are, nor do they need to make up those stories in the first place.

Sex is risk.


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## Veggie (May 22, 2011)

broken_line said:


> This quote seems to misunderstand the issue. Lot's of virgins aren't that way because they choose to, they are that way because nobody ever gave them the proverbial, "yes". That doesn't mean they never took risks, it means they took them and were rejected, labeled a creep or had someone laugh in their face.


Gotta step up your game.

That's most people having (not having) sex.


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## MisterPerfect (Nov 20, 2015)

Veggie said:


> Why is being a virgin pure and saintly?
> 
> You could argue that it means that you don't trust in the purity of god enough to take risks.


Oh no that not its just that I have done nothing that most people would have done. 

Like Sex, Drugs, Achohol, smoking, been to prison 

Basically everything anyone else has done since they had the freedom to do it 

I never done, since I aviod practically anything that will possibly cuase me any issues in the long one by not doing anything! 

So I can say Im drug-free, alcohol free, Smoking, A virgin, and never been in trouble with the law 

This probably shows I have an avoidant personality and major control issues as well but its kept me out of trouble for most of my life while my freinds were getting molested, having babies at 16, being sex and drug addicts and just going down horrible paths with thier lives and I did not end up doing the same thing. So I think I probobly better off avioding trouble at all costs. 

Also your not a very good Christian if you dont know the basic rule of wait till marriage, since that is like a big deal. Though to be fair most people leave relationship with me before it gets to the piont of "Sex" and I dont feel comfortable hopping into bed with someone I just met. I know some people love the idea of hopping in bed with a stranger but that thing just doesnt do it for me. Also saying that you think god wants you to sleep around and get drunk just means youre a very bad Christian. There are verses telling you not to drink too much, and to wait till marriage. So dont try to pull the "You must be a horrible Christian" on me becuase I didnt. Since Gods word doesnt say you should.


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## broken_line (Apr 23, 2016)

Veggie said:


> You're making this weird :laughing:


I know I am, I'm trying to make a point.

The thread is about stigmatization of virgins and whether or not you realize it that is what several of your statements are doing. The whole plotline that virgins are generally that way because they are either too scared to talk to the opposite sex, too creepy, or otherwise due to some internal fault is an issue. Sure it's true in plenty of cases, but it's a gross generalization. Many people are virgins despite repeated and non-creepy attempts to attract the other sex. Some people are just plain ugly or have boring personalities. There is then a notion that such people should be happy to pair up with their equally low social standing members of the opposite sex and that they are wrong to strive for better.



Veggie said:


> Gotta step up your game.


Just keep making my point. :tongue:

I'm not a virgin though, I just was one for 28 years so I know the struggle.



EddyNash said:


> So I can say Im drug-free, alcohol free, Smoking, A virgin, and never been in trouble with the law


LOL, I've done drugs, drank alcohol, smoked, had sex and been to jail and I'm still getting chided for not taking risks! Just how risky does a guy have to be to get laid around here! :laughing:


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## MisterPerfect (Nov 20, 2015)

Grandmaster Yoda said:


> I'm going to aspire to be a really good Uncle rather than a good father.


This is so sweet. I sure you will be 



broken_line said:


> I know I am, I'm trying to make a point.
> 
> The thread is about stigmatization of virgins and whether or not you realize it that is what several of your statements are doing. The whole plotline that virgins are generally that way because they are either too scared to talk to the opposite sex, too creepy, or otherwise due to some internal fault is an issue. Sure it's true in plenty of cases, but it's a gross generalization. Many people are virgins despite repeated and non-creepy attempts to attract the other sex. Some people are just plain ugly or have boring personalities. There is then a notion that such people should be happy to pair up with their equally low social standing members of the opposite sex and that they are wrong to strive for better.
> 
> ...


I dont know, I never try and people always want to get in my pants. Maybe you try too hard. 

I tend to be helpful and everyone best freind and then when someone shows interest I usually run like its the plague. I ignore them long enough for them to get bored and pursue another poor soul. 

Break up-Im there 
Family member dying-im there 
Need homework help-im there 
Need a freind for weekend-Im there 
Dont have a valntine-I probobly bought you a freind card 
Christmas-I bought you a gift, I dont expect anyone remembered to get me one 
Happy birthday-Im there 
Event-Im always there 
Get together-Ill drop everything im doing and go 

Minute someone shows romantic interest-Ill give you a rain check 
a week later-Oh uh rain check 
2 days later-Brought up why I havent awnsered the question
(Distraction and run) 
A week later-I got a new partner Me:Oh my gosh I am so happy for you!

I know I can be an unreasonable douche sometimes but I hate rejecting people


Also might try leather and motorcycle I think some girls find guys like that Edgey. Im more just perfect all the time.


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## broken_line (Apr 23, 2016)

Despotic Ocelot said:


> Wow, look at the link you share... amazing lol... that part of the world employs all the things I've seen you hate fervently before, but when it comes to sex, then... then it's ok, hey, we're all in this together right? Have you had a Saul moment recently... where he came over to god after being against, and then the scales dropped from his eyes and he was no longer blind?


I do not hate, I merely point out the way the world works. Feel free to link any forum posts of mine that you believe are inconsistent with what I stated here. However I clearly DIDN'T state any personal belief here, I merely pointed out an inconsistency of social liberals. Far too often on this forum and in the world people seem to assume that my statements are based on my own personal views when they are merely based on pointing out reality. Reality is neither liberal or conservative, it just is. I'm sure if you look you can find plenty of posts by me seemingly in support of traditionally liberal beliefs. I believe I've quoted Marx twice in the last two weeks for instance. It's very frustrating in life that people are unable to accept that there are people who simply wish to understand an argument instead of to convince people that their own side is right.

_"The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it. And though there be a greater number and weight of instances to be found on the other side, yet these it either neglects and despises, or else by some distinction sets aside and rejects, in order that by this great and pernicious predetermination the authority of its former conclusions may remain inviolate."_
*-Francis Bacon*


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## UraniaIsis (Nov 26, 2014)

For the time being, yes, I am an adult virgin. I feel clean, as far as the health of my immune system is concerned and my nerves haven't been dulled by excessive stimulation. I have been stigmatized for it, some people still try to weaponize it against me. I will not join them in their regrets, which many who stigmatize me do have. It doesn't bother me when people around me start to talk about sex even though I have yet to experience it. It gives me a chance to learn from their mistakes or to be enlightened and ask some educated questions. Sometimes the gossip from such conversations is just so damn entertaining to listen to. I would like to think that being comfortable around topic of sex and having or developing a healthy sense of sexual humor is a good thing. Might make it easier in reducing 'awkward' moments and help build good chemistry, even if only for a temporary arrangement.


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## beth x (Mar 4, 2010)

*Thread warning*

*Please keep to topic and play nice. *


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## Acrylic (Dec 14, 2015)

.


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## MisterPerfect (Nov 20, 2015)

UraniaIsis said:


> For the time being, yes, I am an adult virgin. I feel clean, as far as the health of my immune system is concerned and my nerves haven't been dulled by excessive stimulation. I have been stigmatized for it, some people still try to weaponize it against me. I will not join them in their regrets, which many who stigmatize me do have. It doesn't bother me when people around me start to talk about sex even though I have yet to experience it. It gives me a chance to learn from their mistakes or to be enlightened and ask some educated questions. Sometimes the gossip from such conversations is just so damn entertaining to listen to. I would like to think that being comfortable around topic of sex and having or developing a healthy sense of sexual humor is a good thing. Might make it easier in reducing 'awkward' moments and help build good chemistry, even if only for a temporary arrangement.


That is very mature of you.


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## broken_line (Apr 23, 2016)

Well first off @Despotic Ocelot I didn't say I was in favor of government subsidized sexual services, I just said it was interesting how people these days generally shout out that they are entitled to so many things, but shout just as vehemently that people are not entitled to sex. I wanted someone to clear up what seemed to me to be a logical inconsistency. However even if we are to assume I support a program like the one in the Netherlands please keep in mind the degree to which sexual services are being provided is only once every month. I think one can safely assume the vast majority of people would desire sex fare more often and so there is still a strong incentive to procure it through the traditional means. Relating this back to education and welfare I would point out that the USA already has a significant degree of freed education and welfare. Elementary and high school is free across the country and some states even provide free community college. The federal government also subsidizes loans for college and provides all sort of other incentives and tax breaks for those perusing their education. The same is true for healthcare, we already have programs like CHIP, medicare, medicaid and Obamacare providing free or subsidized healthcare as well as all sorts of Government regulations further subsidizing healthcare spending. What Bernie is suggesting (since you seem to be harking back to him) is to go even further and make all of these things entirely free. The sexual equivalent of that would not be what I posted but instead would be to provide free sexual services 3 times a week with a model. Clearly you can see that THIS level of subsidization would indeed remove the incentive for many people to peruse their own sexual partners just as a similar level of subsidization for heathcare and education would remove a lot of the incentive people have to work as well as providing a poorly tuned workforce for the country's needs. Basic human rights are just that; BASIC. They don't extend to the level of luxury you would suggest. Again, think of the right to sustenance. Everyone agrees that people must be fed, but I think most will agree that the food provided should be chosen based on it's low cost and healthy content, not for taste. There is a difference in thinking everyone deserves food and thinking they all deserve to eat a a 4-star restaurant every night.


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## Acrylic (Dec 14, 2015)

.


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## Grandmaster Yoda (Jan 18, 2014)

bethdeth said:


> *Thread warning*
> 
> *Please keep to topic and play nice. *


This ain't a game.


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## MisterPerfect (Nov 20, 2015)

Grandmaster Yoda said:


> This ain't a game.


Its also not about politics.


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## beth x (Mar 4, 2010)

Grandmaster Yoda said:


> This ain't a game.


Everyone's a pedant.


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## Somniorum (Oct 7, 2010)

I don't feel stigmatised, particularly as nobody who knows me knows about it, aside from folk online. Nobody online I know seems to care particularly. I think one or two people I know offline suspect (not that I know many people offline), but I find it easy enough to not talk about it. If I found I *had* to, well, that'd be awkward surely, but fuck it (...figuratively), right? I don't make things easy for folk who try to taunt me (in the sense that I seem unflappable to many, even if I'm flapping right the fuck out internally). 

Greater upset for me is simply my inability (or great difficulty) in having relationships altogether (and, connected with that, sorting out my life)... I can get pretty morose when I think about how so many people seem to have such an easy time getting into relationships, or going about and seeing all the cute couples together and always being alone myself. : / 

And that's really the thing - externally, not an issue because people generally don't know me, and I don't open up much. Everything is going on internally with me. I really want to have someone I can be *physical* and sexual with, and it's kinda killing me a bit inside that I never do. Increasingly worrying is that I'm far from being a kid anymore (35!), so it's kind of hard to not see this just going on the same till the end, really. 

I know *some* women seem interested in me, but I can't manage to break past my ferocious introversion and my other little hang-ups. I remain hopeful, but somewhat doubtful. : / 

Ultimately, it's just really disappointing.

(while nobody ever directly targets me, it does depress me somewhat when I hear people talking about people *like* me - in person, or, for that matter, here in perc I've seen it a number of times - and implying or outright saying I'm a loser. THAT SAID, I don't think virgin teasing is anything near as bad as slut shaming is - I mean, seriously, I've never once heard of virgins being genuinely harmed for this, but slut shaming roots directly in vicious practices, including sometimes murder. I'm *way* better off than someone who's being slut-shamed!)


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## Wolf (Mar 20, 2016)

EddyNash said:


> Being an adult virgin.


I mean, I guess I'm an adult virgin, even though personally I don't really feel like an adult. I'm only 19 anyhow, so I'm much less of an adult by comparison to say, Gen Y folk. 

I'll still answer anyways, because technically-speaking, I am a young-adult. 



> Whats it feel like,


It's just the abscence of a particular experience as far as I can tell. I guess that I feel different than some of my peers in one way or another, but it's nothing too major. 



> do you feel stigmatized for it,


Not very often, but maybe rarely to a certain extent. Some people are condescending about it, but I think that most people, or at least the few that I surround myself with, aren't really concerned with my virginity. 

The people that have called me out on it usually make me out to be some sort of socially inept, mentally-handicapped person (no offense directed at people with serious diabilities), like I haven't lived or something. Apparently if you didn't get laid in high school then you're a failure at life, or something like that. lmfao :laughing:

I can't really take these people seriously, it just screams insecurity to me. They have to cling to one life experience to make themselves feel better than others, yeah good luck with that. Seems like you're pretty obsessed with me if you worry more about my virginity than I do, just saying.



> do you feel odd around people around you talking about sex when you never had it?


Not really, unless they make it uncomfortable for me on purpose. I usually like hearing about this kind of thing from others, except if they are bragging or rubbing it in my face like its something to be embarrassed about. I've had some interesting and entertaining conversations regarding the subject...



> Also yes, I am one too.


You're not alone buddy. roud:


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## ninjahitsawall (Feb 1, 2013)

Somniorum said:


> Greater upset for me is simply my inability (or great difficulty) in having relationships altogether (and, connected with that, sorting out my life)... I can get pretty morose when I think about how so many people seem to have such an easy time getting into relationships, or going about and seeing all the cute couples together and always being alone myself. : /


Just because it's easy for some people to get into relationships, doesn't mean they're overall happier than you. I think there's a "diminishing returns" thing with people who are relationship "hoppers". As in, they tend to have less healthy relationships. I've always thought this sounded like a cliche or a way to make people feel better, until I met someone who is like this. Always in a relationship but never seems happy, and seems to always mistrust the other person in some way or another (typically, paranoia of manipulation). 

So the real alternative in many cases seems to be, would you rather be single or go through a series of unfulfilling and paranoia-inducing relationships (which creates an image of sorts, of completeness, but you feel empty the entire time)? I think an introvert typically would choose the former. Speaking of which, don't compare yourself to extroverts b/c their perspective isn't gonna match yours and they will find value in aspects of life that an introvert might not. It's like an introvert saying "I wish I had as many friends as _____" but do you, really?


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## castigat (Aug 26, 2012)

When I saw "adult virgin" lol

* *




https://vine.co/v/iEPEHQ7Xzbw




Otherwise? Don't really care. The only time I feel "stigmatized" is when I admit it to people and they suddenly realize that it is their god-given destiny to proselytize to me about the graces of sex and the orgasm, and how "you can't _know_ if you're ace if you've never had sex yet", and the aggressive statements that I'll change and like sex once I have it with _them._ Yeah I've been around some creepy-ass people
There's also the idea that you're some anomaly if you haven't had sex by the time you're 16-18, which is bullshit. blah blah more about people thinking it's appropriate to start trying to push you into sex lmao

Honestly, I have a perverse mind and nearly everything that comes out of my mouth can be taken as an innuendo, so most people are either "I always knew you were a virgin, only virgins talk like that -french bourgeois laughter-" or "you _can't_ be a virgin when you talk like that!" So, I'm not too out of place in sexual conversations, unless they're about overly detailed sexual conquests. lmao

For the most part, people don't give a flying fart in space until I admit to it, and then it's this huge deal like I'll go to virgin hell if I'm not Saved by the Experienced Veterans of Sex God


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## Veggie (May 22, 2011)

EddyNash said:


> This probably shows I have an avoidant personality and major control issues as well but its kept me out of trouble for most of my life while my freinds were getting molested, having babies at 16, being sex and drug addicts and just going down horrible paths with thier lives and I did not end up doing the same thing. So I think I probobly better off avioding trouble at all costs.
> 
> Also your not a very good Christian if you dont know the basic rule of wait till marriage, since that is like a big deal. Though to be fair most people leave relationship with me before it gets to the piont of "Sex" and I dont feel comfortable hopping into bed with someone I just met. I know some people love the idea of hopping in bed with a stranger but that thing just doesnt do it for me. Also saying that you think god wants you to sleep around and get drunk just means youre a very bad Christian. There are verses telling you not to drink too much, and to wait till marriage. So dont try to pull the "You must be a horrible Christian" on me becuase I didnt. Since Gods word doesnt say you should.


People other than Christians can believe in God. Lol. To some people it's about having faith and releasing some control to a higher or another power. You don't seem to respect that friends have gone down "horrible paths with their lives" (potentially dealing with a degree of stigmatization in other regards) and in return they might not respect that you didn't risk doing the same. I'd personally rather a partner who had made a few wrong moves than someone who had not, and I'm not alone. If trouble comes a knocking I'd see them as more likely to be able to handle it, having had experience with it. You can't avoid stigmatization at all costs. If you're around people with that mindset (just do it) it's a trade-off for having stayed out of trouble. You seem to want it both ways.



EddyNash said:


> You could try just being geniune instead of trying to be a douche to look cool. Some girls from what I seen do want douche bags, but those are women with insecurities and other possible mental problems. Go for a normal girl, and dont just be around her hoping to score, be a true freind.


Define "normal" girl. Define "douchebag" - you seem to want to both stigmatize and yet avoid stigmatization... which can be seen as a fire and brimstone mentality and be a turn off.



broken_line said:


> Wait, is this the wrong way to proposition a girl? Maybe that's the issue here. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Yes. Lol.



broken_line said:


> Doesn't matter to me unless I need a passport. Plus I didn't say I would pay you so obviously not anything related to prostitution.
> 
> I don't know what a fatal attraction warranty means?!?
> 
> I do have standards. Have you looked in a mirror lately? You're smoking hot.. :shocked:


I could be psycho. Lol. You don't know me really at all. Guys with standards usually care about more than whether or not you're just hot. Especially if arranging a meet up requires a bit of work and money. As someone with standards I respect the same. I'd feel like you'd be giving yourself away as someone not in the position to have standards. And since you're really always in that position, options aside... I'd wonder if you had self esteem issues. That's not hot even if you're Brad Pitt. Lol. Conversely, exceptionally high standards can be a turn off too, if they're basically impossible to meet. (Dudes who tend to idealize women and put them on pedestals rather than acknowledge that they're just people).


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## MisterPerfect (Nov 20, 2015)

Veggie said:


> People other than Christians can believe in God. Lol. To some people it's about having faith and releasing some control to a higher or another power. You don't seem to respect that friends have gone down "horrible paths with their lives" (potentially dealing with a degree of stigmatization in other regards) and in return they might not respect that you didn't risk doing the same. I'd personally rather a partner who had made a few wrong moves than someone who had not, and I'm not alone. If trouble comes a knocking I'd see them as more likely to be able to handle it, having had experience with it. You can't avoid stigmatization at all costs. If you're around people with that mindset (just do it) it's a trade-off for having stayed out of trouble. You seem to want it both ways.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That first part had 0 to do with anyone believing in god so that is entirely irreluvant. 

No, I sorry to tell you this but the fact is that if someone is too insecure she is going to make you leave her anyways. Which means she needs to work on herself before she can have a succesful relationship. Some people are not healthy enough to have succesful relaitonships since they sabotage them subcutiously believing that they dont "deserve one". That is not stigmatizing. Its a fact. If you know about mental illness you would know its defined by interfering with how people would normally fuction in everyday life. You can reasonably fuction in a relationship with a disorder but certien type of problems will prevent it entirely. IF someone is going to ask you to "Dump them" and tell you "Im not good enough why dont you leave" everyday and then blame you for leaving, its kind of hard to be around that person. Its wishful thinking that you believe this would work. 

Normal(Not suffering from a mental disorder or mental issues that prevents them from a relationship). When I said "dont be a douche" I mean dont try to be a jerk since you assume all women only date jerks. The ones who only date men who are bad to them are doing so since they have "Issues" and those issues will prevent them from being in a normal relationship. So they have to fix some of those issues before they can be in a relationship. Not 100 percent of women are like that, just the ones who are seem like like anyone else on the outside. Till you date them and see things go wrong very quickly. 

In fact some people with disorders which compliment each other will get together and it encourages thier current problems which is considered a bad relationship model as well.


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## Veggie (May 22, 2011)

EddyNash said:


> That first part had 0 to do with anyone believing in god so that is entirely irreluvant.


It's completely relevant. I said something about God which you turned into being a good Christian, waiting for marriage, and got accusatory when I never even said that I was a Christian or that I was referring to a Christian God. So yours was the irrelevant point.

There are some brands of spirituality that see "purity" and "saintliness" as releasing control (I trust you God) as opposed to being, in your own words... a control freak.



EddyNash said:


> No, I sorry to tell you this but the fact is that if someone is too insecure she is going to make you leave her anyways. Which means she needs to work on herself before she can have a succesful relationship. Some people are not healthy enough to have succesful relaitonships since they sabotage them subcutiously believing that they dont "deserve one". That is not stigmatizing. Its a fact. If you know about mental illness you would know its defined by interfering with how people would normally fuction in everyday life. You can reasonably fuction in a relationship with a disorder but certien type of problems will prevent it entirely. IF someone is going to ask you to "Dump them" and tell you "Im not good enough why dont you leave" everyday and then blame you for leaving, its kind of hard to be around that person. Its wishful thinking that you believe this would work.


You can sabotage yourself when it comes to relationships for reasons other than self esteem issues. Monogamy is taxing, complicated, yet pretty much expected in our society. If you've never been in a serious, sexual relationship before than you don't have a lot of room to stigmatize people for what you define as mental health issues, which _is_ kinda what you're doing by placing people into the category of "normal" or not ...and a lot of people would probably agree that it's a little bit annoying if you haven't walked the walk.

And if you see that as such an important indicator of health (a successful relationship) than I guess you aren't normally functioning yourself then by your own thought process, eh?

I don't even know what you're talking about with the last part. You keep projecting onto what I'm saying. No wishful thinking on my part thinking that if you ask someone to leave you and they do that it should work anyway? I simply asked you to define "normal" and "douchebag" for me.



EddyNash said:


> In fact some people with disorders which compliment each other will get together and it encourages thier current problems which is considered a bad relationship model as well.


People with similarities in their belief systems and life experiences tend to compliment each other well romantically. Relationship models will vary from couple to couple.

And if you are someone who sees things in terms of right and wrong... there are ways that are more accepted to go about that when it comes to creating attraction as well, which was kind of mainly my overarching point. A lot of the "douchebags" are better at following a basic protocol and they rise to competition rather than become defeated by it. Some have probably had an easier time though, sure.


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## Sygma (Dec 19, 2014)

EddyNash said:


> This is so sweet. I sure you will be
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I think you select people. And there's nothing wrong with it !


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## Grandmaster Yoda (Jan 18, 2014)

ninjahitsawall said:


> Just because it's easy for some people to get into relationships, doesn't mean they're overall happier than you. I think there's a "diminishing returns" thing with people who are relationship "hoppers". As in, they tend to have less healthy relationships. I've always thought this sounded like a cliche or a way to make people feel better, until I met someone who is like this. Always in a relationship but never seems happy, and seems to always mistrust the other person in some way or another (typically, paranoia of manipulation).
> 
> So the real alternative in many cases seems to be, would you rather be single or go through a series of unfulfilling and paranoia-inducing relationships (which creates an image of sorts, of completeness, but you feel empty the entire time)? I think an introvert typically would choose the former. Speaking of which, don't compare yourself to extroverts b/c their perspective isn't gonna match yours and they will find value in aspects of life that an introvert might not. It's like an introvert saying "I wish I had as many friends as _____" but do you, really?


Sometimes I don't know what I want. There's an ideal image of things. Then I could look around me and see that the romances around me are just crumbling down. They are pretty destructive, I'd say try it, but if it doesn't work, don't focus all your energy on trying it again.


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## Sygma (Dec 19, 2014)

Despotic Ocelot said:


> I'll make this even simpler and easier to understand.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Most retarded post lmao. "hey it's logical to have sex"

/faceroll 


That's why brilliant introverted thinkers are rolling in the pussy at whim heh ?  

Maybe some people have standards. Maybe these standards come out from religion, but they adopted it as something being an integral part of their *values*, to weed out the unwelcomed. 

Now, sex is the most universal way to bully people. Just give them your other cheek and stay true to yourself. If that moment happen for you, then it is just that. Don't listen to those saying it's a thing to not be missed or whatever. 

Self love isn't just about sex. Those fools thinking that their body is their primary tool of bargain will never go very far. Stay proud. Someone will come one day. Or will not. It's just like everything else in this world : social status, travel, exotic activities and whatnot.

Do you have these ? if not, then sex should be the last of your concern


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## Noir (Jun 20, 2014)

Who cares? I'll lose my virginity whenever I'm ready. Everyone is living life at their own pace. I don't see why I should feel stigmatized for it. I view it in a similar light to someone who has played skyrim or X game, and I haven't. It's all cool. Yes, I'd like to play the game, but I definitely won't feel bad for not. *It's not a personal failure of mine. *

And while sex is nice, it's not some trophy you have to win at 16 years old. 

At least that's what I'd like to say. I used to think this way. Until I've met this girl I had a love triangle with. She had a boyfriend, and I was really mad for her. When she went to his place and had sex with him. Well, the pain I felt just from the thought that she was, maybe, at that very moment having sex with another guy was one of the worst things I've ever experienced.

It was a nightmare. That's the first time I've ever felt bad for being a virgin. But I'm trying to reframe the thought in the light I've mentioned earlier.


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## Acrylic (Dec 14, 2015)

.


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## Acrylic (Dec 14, 2015)

.


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## MisterPerfect (Nov 20, 2015)

Veggie said:


> It's completely relevant. I said something about God which you turned into being a good Christian, waiting for marriage, and got accusatory when I never even said that I was a Christian or that I was referring to a Christian God. So yours was the irrelevant point.
> 
> There are some brands of spirituality that see "purity" and "saintliness" as releasing control (I trust you God) as opposed to being, in your own words... a control freak.
> 
> ...


No, this is not what I mean at all. You seem to be spinning things to mean something else entirely. So I guess ill have to give you an example. 

People who compliment each other and have disorders might be "Im controlling and abusive, and you are clingy and needy". It has nothing to do with belief its that they have two disorders which are the oppisate and so when they get together it enables the dysfuction. Belief does not matter in the slightest. It has to do with psychology, its a lot more complicated then you think it is. 

Also it really does not matter at all that you can sabotage a relationship without having such horrible self esteem. The fact of the matter if your self worth and self esteem is so bad you are going to sabotage your own relationship by pushing your partner away you can not have a relationship until you fix your personal issues. That is all there is to it. You cant negotiate, you cant say but other people can have problems too. Since none of that really matters. This is the fact of the matter. Some issues such as this one will prevent you from having a healthy relationship.



Noir said:


> Who cares? I'll lose my virginity whenever I'm ready. Everyone is living life at their own pace. I don't see why I should feel stigmatized for it. I view it in a similar light to someone who has played skyrim or X game, and I haven't. It's all cool. Yes, I'd like to play the game, but I definitely won't feel bad for not. *It's not a personal failure of mine. *
> 
> And while sex is nice, it's not some trophy you have to win at 16 years old.
> 
> ...


That is a very good attitude to have.


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## Sygma (Dec 19, 2014)

Despotic Ocelot said:


> It's retarded to say that his posts ("your not a very good Christian if you dont know the basic rule of wait till marriage", "There are verses telling you not to drink too much") are based on unfounded religious superstition?
> 
> Ok. Then how is the doctrine of no sex before marriage not based on unfounded religious superstition? I've posted why it is... do you have a rebuttal?


Yes, it is highly retarded and unconsiderate to attack people in the name of the values they deem decent. He didn't ask for any of it to be judged. I know a couple living in Malta who waited five years before sleeping together because they were not married. Five years. The guy never had sex with his former girlfriends either, he's 30 years old now and it wasn't the end of the world to wait until then.

Christian. Serious. Reliable. Higher sense of priority.


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## Kitaraah (May 13, 2016)

I lost my virginity at 19 and that makes me feel like a looser


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## MisterPerfect (Nov 20, 2015)

Kitaraah said:


> I lost my virginity at 19 and that makes me feel like a looser


*sends internet hug*


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## Acrylic (Dec 14, 2015)

.


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## MisterPerfect (Nov 20, 2015)

Despotic Ocelot said:


> That's not the proposition I made to you.
> 
> I said "it's retarded to say that his posts are based on religious superstition?" It doesn't matter if you think that's an 'attack' or not... what matters is whether it's relevant to the discussion, and whether it's true or not. Since he's the one that invoked Christianity, referred to scriptures, etc, and tied all this to not having sex before marriage... it's relevant, and thus, it's relevant to ask whether it's sensible for someone to base their decisions on when and whether to have sex, on religious superstition. He proposed it to someone else, so... it's fair game to question it.
> 
> ...


You were the only one who invoked religion or used it as an attack. You linked the original thread to religion since you need a reason to hate on Christians. That is your agenda, but it has nothing to do with the original thread topic. Good for you, you hate christians, heres a god damn cookie *gives a cookie*. Are you satisfied? Can you please move on now?


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## Acrylic (Dec 14, 2015)

.


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## OrangeAppled (Jun 26, 2009)

It is sad how people have to turn this into a soapbox for their personal agenda, creating all kinds of strawmen to make their points. It was nice to see some people able to express how they feel & relate their personal experience, without aggressively asserting "shoulds" or policing others, and then a few individuals (ironically, those not identifying as adult virgins) have to come in and make it about themselves. 

----

Anyhow, I admit to having made assumptions about men of a certain age who are virgins (or highly likely to be). I've met quite a few, given my background. Most assert it is a choice, but it's more like they choose it over the present options, but they really would prefer different options (which for most would be options which would allow for sex). For most it is related to personal ideals, although not necessarily religious. 

I admit that I thought that some maybe used a cover of a belief system for a low libido or sexual hangups or perhaps even closeted homosexuality. I figured if they had a "normal drive" that they'd have gotten married by now (given that is their criteria, which it often is). I think that was really narrow-minded and rather immature thinking now, and it failed to grasp that someone doesn't necessarily have a problem with their sexuality (or a "problem" at all) to have made it to a certain age as a virgin. People often assume such people are less sexual, prudes, have hangups or dysfunctions, etc. Even if not a choice, it doesn't necessarily mean anything is "wrong" with them. I am sure some older virgins manage to eventually have healthy romantic/sexual relationships, and having the necessary criteria met for them to enter such a relationship may involve things_ beyond their control_ as well as _some personal growth_. 

I basically have learned to not make any assumptions.


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## WamphyriThrall (Apr 11, 2011)

OrangeAppled said:


> It is sad how people have to turn this into a soapbox for their personal agenda, creating all kinds of strawmen to make their points. It was nice to see some people able to express how they feel & relate their personal experience, without aggressively asserting "shoulds" or policing others, and then a few individuals (ironically, those not identifying as adult virgins) have to come in and make it about themselves.
> 
> ----
> 
> ...


Was it only men, though? Society has some pretty crazy ideas about guys who aren't constantly fucking (and it's insane how almost every and any transgression leads to homosexuality). It doesn't strike me as something most guys would openly admit, since it's something that's been seen as a virtue in women (crazy double standards). 

At the root, I think it comes from the idea that we all have an obligation to further the human race. If you're not "playing" you're being "selfish" or are just hopeless. Truth be told, I'm more comfortable with those who are asexual, since there are no expectations or pressures, not to mention it leads to more time and energy to cultivate other interests.

One guy flat out refused to believe I'd choose not to pursue sex and relationships. He couldn't relate, so he assumed I was unable to, when I've turned several people down.


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## MisterPerfect (Nov 20, 2015)

OrangeAppled said:


> It is sad how people have to turn this into a soapbox for their personal agenda, creating all kinds of strawmen to make their points. It was nice to see some people able to express how they feel & relate their personal experience, without aggressively asserting "shoulds" or policing others, and then a few individuals (ironically, those not identifying as adult virgins) have to come in and make it about themselves.
> 
> ----
> 
> ...


I can tell you for a fact I do use stuff like religion among other seemingly reasonable exscuses to get around having sex with people. The truth is I would probobly say NO most of the time even without those exscuses. They are simply that "Exscuses". I also known other people who use stuff like "Parents" or "Religion" or other stupid reasons even though sometimes thier parents dont care, and they dont believe in any particular religion. So there are some people who do use that as a reason for avioding it. I not going to try to guess the percentage or say its a majority but I can tell you that yes, some of us do in fact do that and our exscuses are not always valid, we might honestly just not feel like it.


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## OrangeAppled (Jun 26, 2009)

WamphyriThrall said:


> Was it only men, though? Society has some pretty crazy ideas about guys who aren't constantly fucking (and it's insane how almost every and any transgression leads to homosexuality). It doesn't strike me as something most guys would openly admit, since it's something that's been seen as a virtue in women (crazy double standards).
> 
> At the root, I think it comes from the idea that we all have an obligation to further the human race. If you're not "playing" you're being "selfish" or are just hopeless. Truth be told, I'm more comfortable with those who are asexual, since there are no expectations or pressures, not to mention it leads to more time and energy to cultivate other interests.
> 
> One guy flat out refused to believe I'd choose not to pursue sex and relationships. He couldn't relate, so he assumed I was unable to, when I've turned several people down.


Yes, I did tend to make this assumption about men more than women, although sometimes about women.

I definitely agree about the double standard.

I don't feel there is any obligation to further the human race, but I suppose if you value/enjoy physical intimacy, then it can be hard to imagine others do not, or if they do value it somewhat, that they don't prioritize it much. It can also be hard to imagine others DO value it but don't, can't, or won't allow themselves to act on it; although for me that is not hard to imagine, given my background and the people I'm exposed to.



EddyNash said:


> I can tell you for a fact I do use stuff like religion among other seemingly reasonable exscuses to get around having sex with people. The truth is I would probobly say NO most of the time even without those exscuses. They are simply that "Exscuses". I also known other people who use stuff like "Parents" or "Religion" or other stupid reasons even though sometimes thier parents dont care, and they dont believe in any particular religion. So there are some people who do use that as a reason for avioding it.


I am sure some use these things as excuses, but I am saying it is not fair to _assume_ it is an excuse. To clarify, I was not trying to bed these men :laughing:.

You may have said it and I may have missed it (or you may not want to say at all)...but is there any reason you feel you need an "excuse"? Do you have a particular "reason" at all?


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## broken_line (Apr 23, 2016)

Veggie said:


> I could be psycho. Lol. You don't know me really at all.


I dunno, maybe it's just me but I've never been the slightest bit afraid to meet someone IRL who I originally met online. I've probably met at least 20 people IRL from various websites including this one. Maybe I'm just naive but I just don't fear other people even if I know nothing about them and I get sorta depressed how many people would consider me too scary to meet just based on my age and gender.



Veggie said:


> Guys with standards usually care about more than whether or not you're just hot. Especially if arranging a meet up requires a bit of work and money.


For sex? I don't really think so. Obviously for an actual relationship, but this thread was about people who had never had sex, not never been on a date. The money is irrelevant.


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## Effy (Feb 23, 2014)

I feel sympathetic to adult virgins. I've known a few and they've mainly been nice people with nothing more wrong with them than any other person. Often they come across as having a bit of a wall around them, but that's really it. I think it tends to be a self-fulfilling prophecy - people feel ashamed and awkward and overthink it, so they hold back from opportunities. Said opportunities take a little bit of engineering which some people find intuitive, and is difficult to explain to those who don't - bit like riding a bicycle, maybe. The thing about virginity is that it's an easy one-time fix, so hardly a big deal. I'm one of the people who finds sex fairly intuitive, so I doubt my opinion is worth very much to people who see us as two separate categories. But I do think adult virgins are much more normal than they give themselves credit for, and that virginity isn't the insurmountable barrier they think. I can easily understand why people feel bad about it, but from an external perspective, they really don't need to.


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## Veggie (May 22, 2011)

broken_line said:


> I dunno, maybe it's just me but I've never been the slightest bit afraid to meet someone IRL who I originally met online. I've probably met at least 20 people IRL from various websites including this one. Maybe I'm just naive but I just don't fear other people even if I know nothing about them and I get sorta depressed how many people would consider me too scary to meet just based on my age and gender.


I've met people online in person before too. It's not about fear so much as risk analysis and trying not to waste your time and energy and minimizing drama and hurt feelings.



broken_line said:


> For sex? I don't really think so. Obviously for an actual relationship, but this thread was about people who had never had sex, not never been on a date. The money is irrelevant.


Of course you can have standards for even casual sex beyond just looks, though those might be unique from person to person.

And propositioning someone for sex without any social lube (date, etc) isn't probably going to help virgins get laid in most instances. Lol. You don't straight up treat a woman like a prostitute. And if the money is irrelevant, that does get weird. How much are you spending? I mean maybe you're not paying her directly, but...

A lot of people also think it's weird to schedule sex like that. What if you meet in person and you decide that you don't want to? How far did you just travel? Is there a sense of guilt if you don't?

Don't you have closer options? If you don't appear to it might look desperate. (Though people have their reasons so maybe not...).


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## broken_line (Apr 23, 2016)

Veggie said:


> I've met people online in person before too. It's not about fear so much as risk analysis and trying not to waste your time and energy and minimizing drama and hurt feelings.


Well, most of the people I was meeting were friends, nothing romantic although I have done that as well. Maybe the risk is more for a girl? Or maybe it's just perceived that way.



Veggie said:


> Of course you can have standards for even casual sex beyond just looks, though those might be unique from person to person.
> 
> And propositioning someone for sex without any social lube (date, etc) isn't probably going to help virgins get laid in most instances. Lol. You don't straight up treat a woman like a prostitute. And if the money is irrelevant, that does get weird. How much are you spending? I mean maybe you're not paying her directly, but...
> 
> ...


Lol, well I mean I wasn't exactly 100% serious with all that earlier in the thread. I mean I was in terms of the point I was making, but not like I was expecting to win you over by objectifying you. How do you even know you're far away though, I could be right around the other block.. :shocked:


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## MisterPerfect (Nov 20, 2015)

Veggie said:


> I've met people online in person before too. It's not about fear so much as risk analysis and trying not to waste your time and energy and minimizing drama and hurt feelings.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Risk management is why I avioded it all these years. Along with my utter lack of interest in most people.

Sex is like taking drugs. 

Feels good now, can end up blowing up in your face later


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## broken_line (Apr 23, 2016)

EddyNash said:


> Risk management is why I avioded it all these years. Along with my utter lack of interest in most people.


There's no point in being alive if you're going to be too afraid to live.


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## Children Of The Bad Revolution (Oct 8, 2013)

No one is stigmatised for being a non virgin in this society. Are you kidding. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Somniorum (Oct 7, 2010)

Children Of The Bad Revolution said:


> No one is stigmatised for being a non virgin in this society. Are you kidding.


How do you define "this society"? Your society specifically, or all (many people from many places on this forum)? 

Further - what about *sub*societies? Essentially, subcultures - while, for instance, a large portion of mainstream Canada doesn't stigmatise non-virginity, *certain* societies within Canada most certainly do (at least under certain circumstances - such as particular faith-groups and sex before marriage). 

There's also the matter of *how* it's happening and the frequency - if people have sex a lot (and what "a lot" is all depends on the viewer) they can be judged negatively, and sometimes people will still be judged for having sex *easily* (ie, sleeping with someone on the first date) whether this is common for them or not. 

Finally, the matter of age - particularly, older folk are more likely to get upset at teens having sex than teens are, of course.

Of course, most of what I've mentioned doesn't *necessarily* deal specifically with non-virginity but rather *sexuality* in general, but all of it can potentially apply to stigmatising non-virgins. 

(... did someone say that non-virginity is stigmatised in this thread? I don't remember that - slut-shaming has been discussed, but that's not necessarily the same as non-virginity)


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## Veggie (May 22, 2011)

broken_line said:


> Maybe I'm not explaining my self very well. I'll just resort back one of my basic fundamental axioms for life, "Everything is statistics". So yes a low status individual CAN in theory pair off with a high status individual of the opposite sex if everything goes perfectly right, but the PROBABILITY of that happening is very low.


I don't know why you continue to argue against arguments I'm not having with you. Lol. I'll respond again with what I responded with before:



Veggie said:


> Alright, well. First of all, thank you, because there are compliments in there  Secondly - my point is though... even if you're supposedly attractive - it's not like this stuff just falls at your feet. You still have to have game. Attraction is an art form.
> ...
> 
> Ask me how many books I've read on relationships and attraction. Cus there've been books. LOL.


My responses have been more in regards to virgins who are virgins by choice, playing devil's advocate for what is and isn't "pure" ...because "slut" is stigmatized too. 

Annoyance also at the fact that the people who supposedly should have more experience in these matters are further disrespected as unhealthy, shallow, douche-ish, yada, yada, when, if you want to talk statistics, they're simply likely to have more failed relationships too. (You learn from those though. Not just in theory). And more stringent and specific standards if there's more options and experience with red flags. 

Also, ironically, there's been this assumption that I don't know what I'm talking about for some reason. (When it comes to avoidant personality, for example. I know ALL about avoidant-insecure attachment styles, practically and not. I could link the PsychologyToday articles, quote from books, AND give you personal stories). So it's like - which is it? 

I made the math club comment initially because I was kind of playing with the stigmatization and stereotype that can come with it, but. I'm kind of agreeing with you. I wouldn't tell you how to do this job you apparently have ease and experience with. Some people on the forum have these very harsh opinions about how relationships and sex are supposed to work and when you learn that they've never even had them before ...well. 

I think human nature raises an eyebrow and says hey. Why don't you actually get in the arena, get your butt whooped a couple dozen times, and then come back with that attitude. Rejection hurts, but so can everything that comes afterwards. And if you aren't even putting yourself out there for rejection, by choice... *Raises eyebrows higher*


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## Children Of The Bad Revolution (Oct 8, 2013)

Somniorum said:


> (... did someone say that non-virginity is stigmatised in this thread? I don't remember that - slut-shaming has been discussed, but that's not necessarily the same as non-virginity)


I think, forgive me if I'm wrong, it was brought up in the first page of this thread. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Vahyavishdapaya (Sep 2, 2014)

If it's such a big deal to you that you are a virgin, such a big deal that you think people give you shit for it, then go to a brothel. If you don't want to do that then it means you're alright with being a virgin, and also means you must stop pretending to feel sorry for yourself.


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## Grandmaster Yoda (Jan 18, 2014)

R.E. Amemiya said:


> If it's such a big deal to you that you are a virgin, such a big deal that you think people give you shit for it, then go to a brothel. If you don't want to do that then it means you're alright with being a virgin, and also means you must stop pretending to feel sorry for yourself.


That's what I'm going to do. But I would have go to New Zealand if I want it to be opaquely legal.


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## Vahyavishdapaya (Sep 2, 2014)

Grandmaster Yoda said:


> That's what I'm going to do. But I would have go to New Zealand if I want it to be opaquely legal.


What I am saying is, if an individual should truly believe they have a problem or shortcoming, of any kind not just virginity - they will stop at nothing to rectify it. If they do not, then either they are lazy and deserve our contempt, or their problem is not really all that important to them in the grand scheme of things.


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## broken_line (Apr 23, 2016)

R.E. Amemiya said:


> If it's such a big deal to you that you are a virgin, such a big deal that you think people give you shit for it, then go to a brothel. If you don't want to do that then it means you're alright with being a virgin, and also means you must stop pretending to feel sorry for yourself.


What, you think a virgin gets laid one time and suddenly their whole life changes?



R.E. Amemiya said:


> What I am saying is, if an individual should truly believe they have a problem or shortcoming, of any kind not just virginity - they will stop at nothing to rectify it. If they do not, then either they are lazy and deserve our contempt, or their problem is not really all that important to them in the grand scheme of things.


Based on this argument everyone in the entire world is deserving of contempt. You honestly think everyone can just will all their problems away? Trying willing cancer away and see how that goes.


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## Grandmaster Yoda (Jan 18, 2014)

R.E. Amemiya said:


> What I am saying is, if an individual should truly believe they have a problem or shortcoming, of any kind not just virginity - they will stop at nothing to rectify it. If they do not, then either they are lazy and deserve our contempt, or their problem is not really all that important to them in the grand scheme of things.


I'd frame it another way.
I'd say that the problem isn't their virginity but their own self-esteem. That would also account for why they don't do anything, because they are so restricted like that. Having sex is just one expectation someone attached value to. But if this is really their prime concern then other areas of their lives will suffer as well. Overall, they will be that low self-esteem mess that won't get anything done.
I think what you are saying would assume an attitude of confidence, which is highly unlikely. People who are said about this are probably restrained by themselves. Ultimately, it's their problem and they need to fix it if that's how they feel. In that sense it is lazy, but I don't think contempt would help anything. Matter of fact, contempt is not the Jedi way. There's little we can do to fix that, it's really up them. If they don't, then forget about them.


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## Vahyavishdapaya (Sep 2, 2014)

broken_line said:


> What, you think a virgin gets laid one time and suddenly their whole life changes?


Yes, of course it will, if they are being disrespected by people because of it; and they themselves have no reason to have a poor self image any longer since the monkey is off their back. Now if you come back at me and say "even if you get laid one time you still might be a no pussy getting motherfucker", to which I will reply, then your problem is not virginity, it is something else altogether and will need something different to what I suggested. And that problem does not belong in this thread, so I am justified in ignoring it. The thread is about the stigma attached to *virgins*, not anything outside of that. Logically, once somebody is no longer a virgin, their concerns do not belong here and I dare not presume to have a solution for them.



> Based on this argument everyone in the entire world is deserving of contempt. You honestly think everyone can just will all their problems away? Trying willing cancer away and see how that goes.


You equivocating like a motherfucker. Since when has there been a stigma attached to cancer? I do believe you can will away any problem, and I challenge you to demonstrate something to the contrary. Cancer is not a problem, it is an illness. Nobody disrespects you or considers you a failure as a human for having cancer. Nobody who has cancer can personally take action to make it right. Their fate is not in their own hands.

Conversely, if you are a virgin, you can take matters into your own hands by paying someone to fuck you. If you are overweight you can fix that. If you are underweight, you can fix that too; if you are an alcoholic, an addict, a gambler, or otherwise are degenerate, you can fix that all by your own efforts. You name it, if there's a stigma attached to something it can be fixed by the individual's own efforts; with the exception of having a criminal record or being in poverty. Then obviously the matter is out of your hands.


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## Vahyavishdapaya (Sep 2, 2014)

Grandmaster Yoda said:


> I'd frame it another way.
> I'd say that the problem isn't their virginity but their own self-esteem. That would also account for why they don't do anything, because they are so restricted like that. Having sex is just one expectation someone attached value to. But if this is really their prime concern then other areas of their lives will suffer as well. Overall, they will be that low self-esteem mess that won't get anything done.
> I think what you are saying would assume an attitude of confidence, which is highly unlikely. People who are said about this are probably restrained by themselves. Ultimately, it's their problem and they need to fix it if that's how they feel. In that sense it is lazy, but I don't think contempt would help anything. Matter of fact, contempt is not the Jedi way. There's little we can do to fix that, it's really up them. If they don't, then forget about them.


Good point, I didn't think about self-esteem because the thread did not specify it as a problem to consider. I failed to take into account that there are some r/foreveralone types among us in the world, and I find it tragic that people should allow themselves to sink that low. I mean it's one thing to be alone, it's another thing to beat yourself up over it and lose all hope in all aspects of life!

I think contempt has its place. How would Nietzsche view r/foreveralone? Those people are about as alienated from Will to Power as is imaginable. Would Nietzsche garland them with flowers and fellate them until they felt better about themselves? No, he'd give them a bit of tough love, and that's exactly how I would personally go about the situation too. Nietzsche himself was forever alone, but he had a great deal more strength of character than today's foreveraloners.


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## Grandmaster Yoda (Jan 18, 2014)

R.E. Amemiya said:


> Good point, I didn't think about self-esteem because the thread did not specify it as a problem to consider. I failed to take into account that there are some r/foreveralone types among us in the world, and I find it tragic that people should allow themselves to sink that low. I mean it's one thing to be alone, it's another thing to beat yourself up over it and lose all hope in all aspects of life!
> 
> I think contempt has its place. How would Nietzsche view r/foreveralone? Those people are about as alienated from Will to Power as is imaginable. Would Nietzsche garland them with flowers and fellate them until they felt better about themselves? No, he'd give them a bit of tough love, and that's exactly how I would personally go about the situation too. Nietzsche himself was forever alone, but he had a great deal more strength of character than today's foreveraloners.


I agree, you can't nurture somebody into a high self-esteem. You need to give them the thinking tools and break out of it themselves. Then they need to act on their desires and go out and find what they want. It is a slow process at first, I've had an anxiety disorder myself. But once you pass a certain boundary line, you look back and think "I was like that?" It doesn't seem reasonable anymore and you don't want to go back.
People who complain about it all the time could use a kick. If they don't start walking themselves afterward though they won't be pushed very far.


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## Vahyavishdapaya (Sep 2, 2014)

Grandmaster Yoda said:


> I agree, you can't nurture somebody into a high self-esteem. You need to give them the thinking tools and break out of it themselves. Then they need to act on their desires and go out and find what they want. It is a slow process at first, I've had an anxiety disorder myself. But once you pass a certain boundary line, you look back and think "I was like that?" It doesn't seem reasonable anymore and you don't want to go back.
> People who complain about it all the time could use a kick. If they don't start walking themselves afterward though they won't be pushed very far.


You and I are on the same page! Perhaps contempt was not the perfect word for what I meant. Giving low down people a kick up the backside is a contemptuous act, but it is one aimed at bringing the best out of the person being kicked, not for the sadistic pleasure of the kicker. Pushing someone to better themselves, even if you must use means that will be painful for them in the short term, is the highest form of showing that you truly care about someone.

I just can't have any sympathy for someone who says they feel terrible about themselves because *insert problem* and then proceed to do nothing about it.

Being sympathetic to such people does not help them in the slightest. You need to figure a way of making them step up and make the changes they need to. Telling them that everything will be alright and they need to keep doing what they're doing and indulging their inertia only makes their problem worse and worse. Tough love, contemptuous kicking, might not be the perfect motivational strategy but it is a damn sight better than coddling and indulging weak people.


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## Grandmaster Yoda (Jan 18, 2014)

R.E. Amemiya said:


> You and I are on the same page!


Ah, a rarity in these parts. Cherish it while you can. Soon, we will vehemently disagree about our ice cream preferences in a future thread.


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## Amine (Feb 23, 2014)

I lost my virginity pretty late but I'm not an adult virgin now. Still I don't fuck much. Last time I almost did, I was drunk enough to be halfway into it. I used to be self-conscious about my virginity/lack of fucking, and get nervous that I'd be found out. In the last few years, though, I don't care at all. I actually don't like fucking that much. I feel no emotional connection when I do it anymore. I barely ever did in the first place. Without that, to me it is boring at best. Might as well just masturbate.


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## broken_line (Apr 23, 2016)

R.E. Amemiya said:


> Yes, of course it will, if they are being disrespected by people because of it; and they themselves have no reason to have a poor self image any longer since the monkey is off their back. Now if you come back at me and say "even if you get laid one time you still might be a no pussy getting motherfucker", to which I will reply, then your problem is not virginity, it is something else altogether and will need something different to what I suggested. And that problem does not belong in this thread, so I am justified in ignoring it. The thread is about the stigma attached to *virgins*, not anything outside of that. Logically, once somebody is no longer a virgin, their concerns do not belong here and I dare not presume to have a solution for them.


You do understand that nobody else can KNOW if you are a virgin or not right? Clearly nobody can stigmatize you for being a virgin unless you tell them you are. You don't need a hooker to solve that, you can just lie. Obviously the problem that, "adult virgins" face isn't virginity itself, it's rejection in general.



R.E. Amemiya said:


> Conversely, if you are a virgin, you can take matters into your own hands by paying someone to fuck you. If you are overweight you can fix that. If you are underweight, you can fix that too; if you are an alcoholic, an addict, a gambler, or otherwise are degenerate, you can fix that all by your own efforts. You name it, if there's a stigma attached to something it can be fixed by the individual's own efforts; with the exception of having a criminal record or being in poverty. Then obviously the matter is out of your hands.


Oh wow, then I guess your life must be totally fucking amazing if you can just will anything into existence right? And did you really make an exception for a criminal record and poverty? How the hell do those two of all things get exceptions? You can avoid a criminal record by not committing a crime and you can avoid poverty by working harder. Why make these two your exceptions of all things? They are two of the most easily avoidable bad outcome.


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## Veggie (May 22, 2011)

@broken_line - are you a virgin who's lying about it?

Obviously you don't have to answer that question. And no judgment if you do or don't.

You CAN always lie though. Amirite?


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## broken_line (Apr 23, 2016)

Veggie said:


> are you a virgin who's lying about it?


It's actually a lot worse than that if you can believe it. I am technically not a virgin, I have had sex ONCE. :laughing:

But as to why it's worse, I apparently have erectile dysfunction and so I have TRIED to have sex with 3 other girls and failed and then shot down a couple other girls for sex because I knew I wouldn't be able to perform. So I'm not unable to get laid due to never being able to woo a female (Although I have a horribly bad record on that account too), I'm unable to get laid because of physical issues. It's quite frustrating because I have a VERY strong desire for physical intimacy, but of course no woman wants to be a cuddle buddy, they all want sex and usually ASAP. But yeah, I do lie about the girls I've tried to have sex with and failed and just say I had sex with them. Obviously other sexy stuff happened, just not the "home run" as it were.


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## Spiren (May 12, 2016)

EddyNash said:


> Being an adult virgin. Whats it feel like, do you feel stigmatized for it, do you feel odd around people around you talking about sex when you never had it? Also yes, I am one too.


It depends on your outlook whether you'd take offence (and perhaps feel stigmatised) by my views on adult virgins. If it's a case of optimistically waiting to meet the right person and that it is special to you, I can understand that - good for you, finding meaning and doing what you want. One of my friends waited until he was 24 and got married to his girlfriend before they had sex, something I would not risk... but it worked for them.

On the other hand, if it is a case of 'oh poor me' in any sense of those words, then that is rather boring. I've had acquaintances like that and the complaining but lack of work was annoying; just more excuses for not figuring out a system for going after what you want and not dealing with the fact that a lot of failures means success is still to be had, rather than not possible. If sex and relationships aren't particularly important to you, then some complaining is understandable in the way everyone complains about all manner of things.

For those who perhaps have serious issues that contribute to this, then some sympathy can be spared, I'd rather point out that they prioritise themselves and work on that just like they'd face anything else. Perhaps that is easy for me to say, however having met several women over the years with low self-esteem... I didn't really understand it and have come to realise the best way to work that out is by forcing yourself out there little by little, getting yourself slowly comfortable and perhaps more objective. I don't mean to dismiss issues like this at all; I even apply it to my own blend of issues. I think it's very important to interact and that it is easy to get inside our own heads - we maybe suffering from something debilitating and for good reason, this should be acknowledged and addressed; not ignored and repressed.


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## TheProphetLaLa (Aug 18, 2014)

Whats it feel like? It doesn't feel like anything until other people make it into something. Do you feel stigmatized for it? Not necessarily, but there are some people who're strongly affected by my virginity and I don't like it. I don't mention that I'm a virgin in real life unless directly asked. They also assume things about me that aren't true. Recently, at this party, a pastors daughter asked me if I was a virgin and when I said yes she started squealing and jumping around and gave me this huge hug. (I'm not exaggerating) And then she proceeded to tell me that really this was the only thing that women have control over and lets not go any further because no. I wish sexuality was treated more neutrally. Also, no I don't feel odd around people talking about sex when I've never had it.


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## Prada (Sep 10, 2015)

I'm an adult virgin as well due to low to no flirting skills and my sexuality. Do I feel stigmatised for it? No. There is objectively nothing wrong with it and I don't have a problem telling it to people but I do feel inferior about it and as if I was missing out. But I honestly don't know what to do about it.


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## Engelsstaub (Apr 8, 2016)

Now it's time for me to come out and I must admit I am still one. How it happened?

During school I was too shy with too low self esteem I guess. Not much chance for that then. I've never been a "cool person" so girls never really had any interest in me.

Engineering studies and finally a job in the IT sector left me in a 99% male environment where even talking to a girl who's not my friend's partner is a rare event. 

As far as I observer people around me it's often like they are alone until quite late in their lives and then suddenly a wedding + kids. At around 30 everyone, both men and women start thinking about something more serious, involving having kids and stuff like that. Even if a girl doesn't wanna have kinds now it's almost always temporary because of career/studies and such. I know about myself that I want to have no kids ever and this is a huge obstacle. All I could is to have some short-term adventures or one night stands which don't seem enticing enough to me to get into.

The only advice I have heard was like "don't care about it just find someone if she ever starts talking about kids you'll dump her".

As for the reaction of the others, only very few people know about it.


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## Mee2 (Jan 30, 2014)

TheProphetLaLa said:


> Whats it feel like? It doesn't feel like anything until other people make it into something. Do you feel stigmatized for it? Not necessarily, but there are some people who're strongly affected by my virginity and I don't like it. I don't mention that I'm a virgin in real life unless directly asked. They also assume things about me that aren't true. Recently, at this party, a pastors daughter asked me if I was a virgin and when I said yes she started squealing and jumping around and gave me this huge hug. (I'm not exaggerating) And then she proceeded to tell me that really this was the only thing that women have control over and lets not go any further because no. I wish sexuality was treated more neutrally. Also, no I don't feel odd around people talking about sex when I've never had it.


Whoa, no way you haven't had sex! Did not expect that at all. I'm going to assume you've got men all over you but you just reject them all because they're not cool enough. Yeah, has to be that.


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## TheProphetLaLa (Aug 18, 2014)

Mee2 said:


> Whoa, no way you haven't had sex! Did not expect that at all. I'm going to assume you've got men all over you but you just reject them all because they're not cool enough. Yeah, has to be that.


Haha. A lot of the guys seem sleazy and pushy to me. It makes me uncomfortable. Wish I could find a cute virgin guy so we could be awkward and weird together. :/ No judgement.


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## Eset (Jun 7, 2016)

I will never get to experience being an adult virgin, rip.


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## Mee2 (Jan 30, 2014)

TheProphetLaLa said:


> Haha. A lot of the guys seem sleazy and pushy to me. It makes me uncomfortable. Wish I could find a cute virgin guy so we could be awkward and weird together. :/ No judgement.


I think that's a great idea. I lost mine with another virgin. It was terrible and fantastic at the same time. Worst sex ever, but we laughed about it for years afterwards. Losing it with someone experienced probably works for a lot of people but no regrets for me


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## MisterPerfect (Nov 20, 2015)

Prada said:


> I'm an adult virgin as well due to low to no flirting skills and my sexuality. Do I feel stigmatised for it? No. There is objectively nothing wrong with it and I don't have a problem telling it to people but I do feel inferior about it and as if I was missing out. But I honestly don't know what to do about it.


Heres are trick to learn how to flirt. Copy people who flirt a lot. That is how I did it.


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## Prada (Sep 10, 2015)

EddyNash said:


> Heres are trick to learn how to flirt. Copy people who flirt a lot. That is how I did it.


I have a bigger problem with the flirting itself. Or rather getting in trouble for flirting with women if they even happen to notice it.


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## MisterPerfect (Nov 20, 2015)

Prada said:


> I have a bigger problem with the flirting itself. Or rather getting in trouble for flirting with women if they even happen to notice it.


Why? Who on earth are you flirting with? Would you like me to teach you how to be a smooth?


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## Wiz (Apr 8, 2014)

Just get out there and do it ppl. It's not worth waiting for.


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## Prada (Sep 10, 2015)

EddyNash said:


> Why? Who on earth are you flirting with? Would you like me to teach you how to be a smooth?


Have you heard the word homophobia? It's very common here. But I wouldn't mind learning how to be smooth. Do you have any references or other proof of smoothness? :tongue:


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## TheJ (Aug 3, 2015)

TheProphetLaLa said:


> Haha. A lot of the guys seem sleazy and pushy to me. It makes me uncomfortable. Wish I could find a cute virgin guy so we could be awkward and weird together. :/ No judgement.


I'm honestly surprised you haven't found any, ISFP and INFPs are often drawn to ESFPs in my experience.


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## Coldspot (Nov 7, 2011)

Being an adult virgin isn't a big deal to me. I'm not afraid of admitting it to anyone as it is not important to me. Sex just doesn't interest me, it's intimacy that I crave.

As for reasons, I was emotionally unavailable in my teens so would not pursue or accept offers of dates. Aside from that, I am just very picky about potential romantic interests.


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## HouseBlackfyre (Jul 10, 2016)

TheProphetLaLa said:


> Haha. A lot of the guys seem sleazy and pushy to me. It makes me uncomfortable. Wish I could find a cute virgin guy so we could be awkward and weird together. :/ No judgement.


Given the nature of our society it seems highly unlikely you would be able to find an individual who is both physically attractive AND a virgin past the age of 18. Obviously they exist, but it's quite rare and they likely have some other obstacle which must be dealt with such as strong religious convictions or a serious personality flaw.


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## TheProphetLaLa (Aug 18, 2014)

HouseBlackfyre said:


> Given the nature of our society it seems highly unlikely you would be able to find an individual who is both physically attractive AND a virgin past the age of 18. Obviously they exist, but it's quite rare and they likely have some other obstacle which must be dealt with such as strong religious convictions or a serious personality flaw.


I actually agree with you. For the most part, you're right. Hence the "Wish I..". They don't have to be a virgin though. I'd be good with someone I find attractive, who's honest, trustworthy, understanding, respectful, has no STD's, and no hidden wife or girlfriend. I just need someone I'd feel safe with and who'd let me go at my own pace. Which is actually harder to find than you'd think. There's a lot of liars and schemers out there.


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## HouseBlackfyre (Jul 10, 2016)

TheProphetLaLa said:


> I actually agree with you. For the most part, you're right. Hence the "Wish I..". They don't have to be a virgin though. I'd be good with someone I find attractive, who's honest, trustworthy, understanding, respectful, has no STD's, and no hidden wife or girlfriend. I just need someone I'd feel safe with and who'd let me go at my own pace. Which is actually harder to find than you'd think. There's a lot of liars and schemers out there.


A lot of men have something of a fetishistic obsession with the idea of deflowering a virgin so I can imagine being the object of that obsession would create a lot of opportunity for problems to arise. I don't hold quite as negative an opinion of men as you though. The issue here is known as the, "Pareto principle" (not to be confused with Pareto Efficiency). The total number of attempts made be men to attract women is much inflated by the so called, "player" demographic and so while the majority of male advances on a woman are coming from liars and schemers it doesn't necessarily follow that the majority of males are in fact lairs and schemers. The sort of man you seek is unlikely to be actively trying to court more than one woman at a time and may very well not be trying to court any women. This is why it's important for women to put the onus on themselves to locate and peruse the males they find desirable instead of to be passive and hope to pick a desirable male for the available suitors. The pool of likely suitors is much more likely to contain men with ulterior motives than the pool of men you might expect to find on your own.


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## TheProphetLaLa (Aug 18, 2014)

HouseBlackfyre said:


> A lot of men have something of a fetishistic obsession with the idea of deflowering a virgin so I can imagine being the object of that obsession would create a lot of opportunity for problems to arise. I don't hold quite as negative an opinion of men as you though. The issue here is known as the, "Pareto principle" (not to be confused with Pareto Efficiency). The total number of attempts made be men to attract women is much inflated by the so called, "player" demographic and so while the majority of male advances on a woman are coming from liars and schemers it doesn't necessarily follow that the majority of males are in fact lairs and schemers. The sort of man you seek is unlikely to be actively trying to court more than one woman at a time and may very well not be trying to court any women. This is why it's important for women to put the onus on themselves to locate and peruse the males they find desirable instead of to be passive and hope to pick a desirable male for the available suitors. The pool of likely suitors is much more likely to contain men with ulterior motives than the pool of men you might expect to find on your own.


I like the way you think Miss Fyre not to be confused with Fire. Its not easy but you're absolutely right.


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## DemonD (Jun 12, 2012)

I don't bring it up because people react as if they found a skateboarding unicorn.


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## MisterPerfect (Nov 20, 2015)

Prada said:


> Have you heard the word homophobia? It's very common here. But I wouldn't mind learning how to be smooth. Do you have any references or other proof of smoothness? :tongue:


Where you flirting with a straight person and are suprised they got upset with you? If you mean others are judging you for being gay, not directly involved in the interaction then they are just jerks.

Some rules 
1.Listen to the other person/dont talk about yourself 
2.Make them feel speciel 
3.Always spin anything said into a positive-(That includes comments directed at you also)Women says she is old(Note how she is probobly also very wise or negate the fact by saying "You are too pretty to be that old" 
4.Always act like you got everything put together even if you dont 
5.Stick to the plan even if it seems like its falling apart(That plan is better then nothing)
6.Remember a freind is also a possible enemy 
7."I think you're pretty" Works on most women(Some women will overanylyze this comment if they are very intelligent and observant though)
8.Tailor your compliments to fit the person(Meaning you must also be able to evaluate a person)=Since that is all I do as to evaluate threats, strength, weakness I tend to be an expert 
9.Women generally are guilty of vanity, men are guilty of ego(There are exceptions to this rule of course)
10.Know the connections(Who is freinds with who, who you can talk to, who you cant) 
11.Always be the smartest person in the room(Have the most dirt on people, this is to make sure they dont try to tear down your reputation)
12.Don't need to lie a lot, but also don't give everything away, Half truths are not lying 
13.Never give out anyones secrets that are not your own 
14.Do not give out highly personal imformation about yourself except through third person. For example if you told Susan your secret and Jerry wants to know tell Jerry to ask Susan. If you talk about the secret with anyone never speak about it directly just hint at it. If this is a possible secret that can exspose weakness or hurt your reputation


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