# What would a psychopathic Feeler be like?



## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

VIIZZY said:


> Explain?
> 
> Feelers (external or internal) are related with morals and values; external feelers put societal norms/rules/values as a high priority and internal feelers go by their own morals. If an Fi held personal values that allowed or demanded they kill certain people they'd do it easily while an Fe could be a killer if they came from a particularly violent environment where they learn hurting others is ideal. I don't think schizophrenia can be discerned based on types at all.


Well that is your perception its really not concrete its an interpretation and I offered a sentence of my sentiment and perception on the matter. Pretty sure I wasn't combative but okay. Just because someone is lead by morals/values, doesn't mean they will not fall victim to mental illness. And what I was thinking in my very short one sentence answer was simply that, schizophrenia seemed more likely then being psychopathic. As schizophrenia is a disease of hormone imbalance directly effecting the way people reason and feel. You argue that schizophrenia cannot be discerned on types at all when the whole thread was in reference to another mental illness. So what one mental illness can be, while another not? Anyways your entitled to your interpretation and me mine. I never said I was an expert I offered an opinion.


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## VIIZZY (Mar 22, 2014)

Cinnamon83 said:


> Well that is your perception its really not concrete its an interpretation and I offered a sentence of my sentiment and perception on the matter. Pretty sure I wasn't combative but okay. Just because someone is lead by morals/values, doesn't mean they will not fall victim to mental illness. And what I was thinking in my very short one sentence answer was simply that, schizophrenia seemed more likely then being psychopathic. As schizophrenia is a disease of hormone imbalance directly effecting the way people reason and feel. You argue that schizophrenia cannot be discerned on types at all when the whole thread was in reference to another mental illness. So what one mental illness can be, while another not? Anyways your entitled to your interpretation and me mine. I never said I was an expert I offered an opinion.


I wasn't being combative...
I simply wanted to explain how I think a feeler killer would be like based on the functions and how they're defined....not even opinion. Like you I'm not willing to add the psychopathic moniker to them because it seems very conflicted; most examples people have suggested were psychopaths who later adopt a moral code as a means of continuing what they were already doing. 

Your sentence, as you admit _is_ very vague; I interpreted it as you saying they'd act like a schizophrenic within the framework of being a psychopath. Also hormone imbalance? From what I know that's still being researched...


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

VIIZZY said:


> I wasn't being combative...
> I simply wanted to explain how I think a feeler killer would be like based on the functions and how they're defined....not even opinion. Like you I'm not willing to add the psychopathic moniker to them because it seems very conflicted; most examples people have suggested were psychopaths who later adopt a moral code as a means of continuing what they were already doing.
> 
> Your sentence, as you admit _is_ very vague; I interpreted it as you saying they'd act like a schizophrenic within the framework of being a psychopath. Also hormone imbalance? From what I know that's still being researched...


A schizophrenic is just what I likened my closest visual. I see the feeler killer operating out of mental illness, provoking, or vindication. I see a psycho as someone who does not operate off of emotion. And I thought to myself that schizophrenics seem the most closely to liken if lumping a mental disorder over a psycho to a feelers motivation to kill. I honestly am not going to argue with whole hearted conviction on it. It was just a suggestion on one mental disorder being more relevant to the motivation over another. 

Sorry in general I am vague and general. I am not big on committing myself to an argument, just like speculating. 

So anyways I do tend to agree with you that either mental disorder is not exclusive to any type.


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## VIIZZY (Mar 22, 2014)

Cinnamon83 said:


> A schizophrenic is just what I likened my closest visual. I see the feeler killer operating out of mental illness, provoking, or vindication. I see a psycho as someone who does not operate off of emotion. And I thought to myself that schizophrenics seem the most closely to liken if lumping a mental disorder over a psycho to a feelers motivation to kill. I honestly am not going to argue with whole hearted conviction on it. It was just a suggestion on one mental disorder being more relevant to the motivation over another.
> 
> Sorry in general I am vague and general. I am not big on committing myself to an argument, just like speculating.
> 
> So anyways I do tend to agree with you that either mental disorder is not exclusive to any type.



The only issue I take with this, while not delving into psychology, is that the feeler functions don't equate to emotional based reasoning; it's about morals as defined in mbti. 

I think, out of the two functions, Fi would be a more likely candidate for a killer in general as that's very wrapped in personal views on right and wrong. Fe is more into creating harmony among groups (hence a tendency to following religious/moral rules). It's an interesting idea nonetheless.


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## Hivernage (Mar 30, 2014)

VIIZZY said:


> The only issue I take with this, while not delving into psychology, is that the feeler functions don't equate to emotional based reasoning; it's about morals as defined in mbti.
> 
> I think, out of the two functions, Fi would be a more likely candidate for a killer in general as that's very wrapped in personal views on right and wrong. Fe is more into creating harmony among groups (hence a tendency to following religious/moral rules). It's an interesting idea nonetheless.


But Fe can also give the feeling that one's own group is superior to other groups, which can lead to racial and religious conflicts and even killing others because they are not part of the own group or don't adhere to the common morals. Fi on the other hand, because of its individualistic attitude, is less interested in forcing others to feel the same way and more accepting of deviations. So I think Fi is less likely than Fe to kill others out of moral superiority.


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## VIIZZY (Mar 22, 2014)

Hivernage said:


> But Fe can also give the feeling that one's own group is superior to other groups, which can lead to racial and religious conflicts and even killing others because they are not part of the own group or don't adhere to the common morals. Fi on the other hand, because of its individualistic attitude, is less interested in forcing others to feel the same way and more accepting of deviations. So I think Fi is less likely than Fe to kill others out of moral superiority.


Now things are going to get sloppy; is the Fe a serial killer if they're doing it based on their group dynamics? Is the Fe just 'taking orders' like a soldier? Are soldiers in the same category as serial killers? Does the Fe actually get some fun out of it? Probably not. Fe is all about keeping the peace and are more able to empathize with others (outside of dominant group as well as with dominant group) than Fi. Fi is wrapped up in super ego and any religious killers (and cult leaders) scream Fi. They have their moral code and if a part of that is 'kill the infidels' guess what they're going to be doing? Killing people and they'd get pleasure out of it thinking it was a divine act. 

I stand by my point; Fe's are too sympathetic to make great serial killers and a group of them would most likely only kill for self defense. Fi's on the other hand, a bad one will have no issues with killing.


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## Purrfessor (Jul 30, 2013)

Not having empathy is a myth in psychopaths. They use it quite a lot when being manipulative. They just care about themselves to a high degree. Not caring about others as much as yourself does not equal lack of empathy.


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## Hivernage (Mar 30, 2014)

VIIZZY said:


> Now things are going to get sloppy; is the Fe a serial killer if they're doing it based on their group dynamics? Is the Fe just 'taking orders' like a soldier? Are soldiers in the same category as serial killers? Does the Fe actually get some fun out of it? Probably not. Fe is all about keeping the peace and are more able to empathize with others (outside of dominant group as well as with dominant group) than Fi. Fi is wrapped up in super ego and any religious killers (and cult leaders) scream Fi. They have their moral code and if a part of that is 'kill the infidels' guess what they're going to be doing? Killing people and they'd get pleasure out of it thinking it was a divine act.
> 
> I stand by my point; Fe's are too sympathetic to make great serial killers and a group of them would most likely only kill for self defense. Fi's on the other hand, a bad one will have no issues with killing.


Fi is all about being authentic and definitely not about killing in the name of some religion or cult. Being so wrapped up in its own morals actually makes Fi less 'dangerous' because it doesn't try to impose them on others and doesn't care about infidels and whatnots. Fi might be moodier and harder to deal with than Fe, but is also more honest about where it stands, whereas Fe uses superficial sympathy to win you over, then ridicules you behind your back (or kills you for not agreeing with them of course  ).


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## VIIZZY (Mar 22, 2014)

Hivernage said:


> Fi is all about being authentic and definitely not about killing in the name of some religion or cult. Being so wrapped up in its own morals actually makes Fi less 'dangerous' because it doesn't try to impose them on others and doesn't care about infidels and whatnots. Fi might be moodier and harder to deal with than Fe, but is also more honest about where it stands, whereas Fe uses superficial sympathy to win you over, then ridicules you behind your back (or kills you for not agreeing with them of course  ).


Do you have some personal issues with Fe? This is in relation to your last sentence and to be frank it sounds incorrect. 
Fe as defined by MBTI "Fe - How is Feeling expressed when it is turned outward? 
Extraverted Feeling reaches out to attach and interact with other living things . . . nurturing relationships. It is about validating and valuing others, encouraging, coaching, educating and motivating. It is protecting, helping, and caretaking. The Extraverted Feeling mind organizes action consistent with values, beliefs, spiritual foundations, and sense of humanity - how people (and other living things) ought to be treated. Extraverted Feeling promotes collaboration, a shared sense of community, and harmony in interpersonal relationships.
Extraverted Feeling (Fe) is dominant in ESFJ & ENFJ and supportive in ISFJ & INFJ personality types." 
The only ways I can see an Fe killing is if they deemed it the best choice for the whole; they are more concerned with humanity and treating others properly to be true serial killers. Their motives would be external ones, such as protecting the group. 
Fi is about authenticity you're correct and an unhealthy Fi could easily use morals as grounds for a basis of killing; this is my entire point which seems to have been lost. An unhealthy Fi will act on their own moral grounds and are more likely to be able to convince themselves killing another was the right thing. I then said I see Fi in a lot of cult leaders and religious killers; not that Fi would join cults. Don't twist my words.


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## NIHM (Mar 24, 2014)

My sister was diagnosed with Antisocial personality disorder (ASPD) this circumferences psychopathy or sociopath. Not every ASPD is alike but they do have similar patterns. The doctors also told us 1 out of a 100 people normally will have a form of this disease. My sister's personality type is ESFP so I hope this answers the debate. Feelers can have this disorder. Things to keep in mind with this disease. 

*1. Failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest;* She tries to control this but sometimes does not agree with the laws that everyone else uses.

*2.Deception, as indicated by repeatedly lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure; impulsive or failure to plan ahead;* This is her mostly 90% of the time, her lies are so frequent that they never upset me any more because I'm use to it and it's her nature.

*3. Irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults;* Yep, specially if she's been caught in an act of deceit and thinks you're going to be upset.

*4. Reckless disregard for safety of self or others;* She's getting better at this but her selfish side can endanger not only her but her family and friends. 

*5. Consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations* She's working on this but if I loan her money normally I don't expect it in return. 

*6. Lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another;* She can cry but it's very rare and very hard for her to. On the other hand because she's a SF she also can be very concerned about how you're doing and offer to help as long as this does not interfere in the next party or her fun times. 

I would like to add I'm sure most of ESFP's do not have this but she does. She got it through a head trauma to her brain and however sad her circumstance was we will never stop loving her. She tries and everyone in the family including our friends just go "well that's Judy for ya." The movie Frozen is really special to us because just like in that movie I will never fear her, she's my sister. The people who date me she tells this, "I'm a sociopath, if you hurt her I will have no problems hunting you down and slowly dismantling you." lol So far no man has ever hit me or tried to be possessive over me


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## VIIZZY (Mar 22, 2014)

@NIHM
Thanks for sharing your story about your sister!


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## NIHM (Mar 24, 2014)

VIIZZY said:


> @NIHM
> Thanks for sharing your story about your sister!


Np I always try to educate people on it because the first moment I meet people they react with fear once they find out something is off with her. You'll just be hanging out and you'll notice something odd. If I break the ice and explain she's not a threat then most people accept her for who she is and aren't even bothered by her lies. It's only the very insecure that might call her a monster. Not every sociopath is a serial killer FYI.


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## Scelerat (Oct 21, 2012)

NIHM said:


> My sister was diagnosed with Antisocial personality disorder (ASPD) this circumferences psychopathy or sociopath. Not every ASPD is alike but they do have similar patterns. The doctors also told us 1 out of a 100 people normally will have a form of this disease. My sister's personality type is ESFP so I hope this answers the debate. Feelers can have this disorder. Things to keep in mind with this disease.
> 
> *1. Failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest;* She tries to control this but sometimes does not agree with the laws that everyone else uses.
> 
> ...


Please, I've checked the box on all those traits and I'm not a psychopath/sociopath. I do buy narcissist, for myself but not ASPD, even if I agree with Hannibal Lecter's variety of "free range rude"


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## NIHM (Mar 24, 2014)

Scelerat said:


> Please, I've checked the box on all those traits and I'm not a psychopath/sociopath. I do buy narcissist, for myself but not ASPD, even if I agree with Hannibal Lecter's variety of "free range rude"


The doctor did tell us it's in about 1 out of 100 so it's more common then most of society realizes. A person can go their whole life and not comprehend they have it. So very successful and ruthless Lawyers, CEO's, Bankers could have this disorder. In her case her brain was damaged. You may answer yes to all those questions but to what degree do you do them? Like the lie part. My sister can lie to you with no change in her face (like in the show lie to me) she could be able to lie. She can pass a lie detector test with no problems because she does not feel guilt or remorse. She will not even blink an eye until you present hard cold proof of said lie. The good news for friends and family and maybe a long known family pet is that she's a sociopath. The doctor explained what small difference there are in the two sides. A psychopath has no problem hurting anyone or feeling anything. A Sociopath at least has feelings for their family and close peers. She can be very manipulative and plan steps out to get what she wants. She's very good at pitting people against one another and does with out fear of being caught. She lacks the organization of a psychopath to hide what she is aka Dexter. Again my family knows she has it so it's not like she can do any damage. We just think "that's her," and now except her for who she is. She can still cause chaos but it's now more manageable.


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## theredpanda (Jan 18, 2014)

DualGnosis said:


> I think it's nearly impossible to test as an xxFJ and a psychopath at the same time. Maybe an xxFP, but even that barely makes sense.
> 
> In fact xxTJ would probably have the closest traits, especially ENTJ/ESTJs similar to psychopathy. But of course that's not the question you're asking...
> 
> ...


Are you sure Kira wasn't INTJ who was in touch with his Fi? That's what I'd say he was. Love Death Note btw...amazing <3


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## Purrfessor (Jul 30, 2013)

theredpanda said:


> Are you sure Kira wasn't INTJ who was in touch with his Fi? That's what I'd say he was. Love Death Note btw...amazing <3


Such INTJ.


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## NIHM (Mar 24, 2014)

I haven't seen death note yet so I wouldn't be able to tell you if his character is one or not. Btw once you know and live with one Sociopath it's very easy to pick up on others that have it. I run into one about once a year. Look at their eyes. During something that should be overly traumatic for someone their going to act like they're crying but when you look at their eyes no tears are actually falling or even welding up. My sister can do this a lot. When she actually does cry you know it's the real deal. It's what I like to call crocodile tears. This does not go for the people that actually aren't crying and aren't affected by something but for a sociopath they are going to try to fit in and go through the actions of the lie but they wont be able to tear up.


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## Mendi the ISFJ (Jul 28, 2011)

infjbrosef said:


> What would a psychopathic INFP,INFJ,ESFP and etc. be like?
> 
> How would they behave with their functions when they have a complete lack of empathy?
> 
> Is it even possible for a feeler to be a psychopath?


dont they say that unhealthy types utilize their shadow functions? so probaby they would be like their opposite selves which would be T types right?


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## david91 (Jan 6, 2014)

Does this answer your question?


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## NIHM (Mar 24, 2014)

david91 said:


> View attachment 110850
> 
> 
> Does this answer your question?


I've already answered the question and it was a yes.


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## VIIZZY (Mar 22, 2014)

david91 said:


> View attachment 110850
> 
> 
> Does this answer your question?


Agreed.


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## Knight of Ender (Mar 30, 2014)

Psychopaths don't have feelings by definition. Or at least they would have a low Fe.


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## VIIZZY (Mar 22, 2014)

Knight of Ender said:


> Psychopaths don't have feelings by definition. Or at least they would have a low Fe.


Read further back in the thread for Nimh's personal story about her sister; that aside research (still being studied) is showing that they do have feelings but most of them revolve around the self. They are capable of empathy however they can 'switch it off' or in some cases its warped (again to revolve around the self).


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## DualGnosis (Apr 6, 2013)

@_VIIZZY_ 

I consider Kira and Light slightly different in the sense that Kira is the character that faces off with L but Light is the character with no recollection of the Notebook (solitary confinement scene).
@_theredpanda_

I think the only INTJ in the story was Near. He was a true Te/Fi user compared to Kira, while Kira was an Fe/Ti user. My reasoning is that Kira was extremely skillful in his ability to manipulate others, this came from being in tune with what others were feeling and thinking (Fe). Near was extremely straightforward and did not cater to the emotions of others, characteristic of INTJs (Te/Fi).

Couple this with Kira's grand vision for harmony and a crime-less world, as well as his ability to appeal and empathize with others despite of how shallow those emotions might be. These are characteristics of an Fe user.


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## theredpanda (Jan 18, 2014)

DualGnosis said:


> @VIIZZY
> 
> I consider Kira and Light slightly different in the sense that Kira is the character that faces off with L but Light is the character with no recollection of the Notebook (solitary confinement scene).
> @theredpanda
> ...


But Kira was extremely strategic (Te), and he had an Ni sort of vision


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## VIIZZY (Mar 22, 2014)

@DualGnosis

......I remember the scene but I don't recall him ever completely forgetting about the deathnote. My memory might be hazy however. A part of me wants to say he pulled some sort of trick to make himself forget but I can't remember what exactly it was. 

Even still making the distinction between Light and Kira seems like thin ice to me; often times while being just "Light" he was actively working against L or attempting to mislead him. Kira and Light are the same person throughout much of the series; hell Light even laughs at the name Kira as it came from his 'fanbase' who he mocks for having pick such an obvious spinoff of the word Killer. A lot of the Kira mythos comes from Light's fanbase and not from himself though he eventually buys into at least as a persona.


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## DualGnosis (Apr 6, 2013)

theredpanda said:


> But Kira was extremely strategic (Te), and he had an Ni sort of vision


Te is strategic but in a sort of pragmatic, practical sense that is usually geared towards application.

Ni is the trait of foresight, and the stronger the trait the more future-oriented nature. Ni dom users are supposedly the best strategists.

What you said is true about Kira, but not necessarily about the traits themselves. I think the association with intelligence that INTJs have is why there is a tendency to type him as such, the thing is INFJs and Feelers in general, can be pretty smart too. But it's Fe users, especially those with stronger Fe traits that are the masters of manipulation and ethos appeal.


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## DualGnosis (Apr 6, 2013)

VIIZZY said:


> @_DualGnosis_
> 
> ......I remember the scene but I don't recall him ever completely forgetting about the deathnote. My memory might be hazy however. A part of me wants to say he pulled some sort of trick to make himself forget but I can't remember what exactly it was.
> 
> Even still making the distinction between Light and Kira seems like thin ice to me; often times while being just "Light" he was actively working against L or attempting to mislead him. Kira and Light are the same person throughout much of the series; hell Light even laughs at the name Kira as it came from his 'fanbase' who he mocks for having pick such an obvious spinoff of the word Killer. A lot of the Kira mythos comes from Light's fanbase and not from himself though he eventually buys into at least as a persona.


I do this out of simplicity to distinguish when he switches from INFJ Kira to ISFJ Light.


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## VIIZZY (Mar 22, 2014)

DualGnosis said:


> I do this out of simplicity to distinguish when he switches from INFJ Kira to ISFJ Light.


I'm really not convinced of the feeler thing; sorry. His behavior is textbook psychopathy with narcissism....which arguably is a common features with psychopaths to begin with.


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## theredpanda (Jan 18, 2014)

DualGnosis said:


> Te is strategic but in a sort of pragmatic, practical sense that is usually geared towards application.
> 
> Ni is the trait of foresight, and the stronger the trait the more future-oriented nature. Ni dom users are supposedly the best strategists.
> 
> What you said is true about Kira, but not necessarily about the traits themselves. I think the association with intelligence that INTJs have is why there is a tendency to type him as such, the thing is INFJs and Feelers in general, can be pretty smart too. But it's Fe users, especially those with stronger Fe traits that are the masters of manipulation and ethos appeal.


Ok- I see what you're saying...was he manipulative tho? I mean he was good at hiding things and lying, yes. It's been awhile since I've seen the show lol


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## VIIZZY (Mar 22, 2014)

theredpanda said:


> Ok- I see what you're saying...was he manipulative tho? I mean he was good at hiding things and lying, yes. It's been awhile since I've seen the show lol


I have to agree with you; I remember the emotional feeler aspect of him being highly faked for the sake of diverting suspicion; I don't recall him ever manipulating others with emotional reasoning.


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## theredpanda (Jan 18, 2014)

VIIZZY said:


> I have to agree with you; I remember the emotional feeler aspect of him being highly faked for the sake of diverting suspicion; I don't recall him ever manipulating others with emotional reasoning.


Yeah- he didn't ever manipulate people into doing things- just lied so he wouldn't get caught.


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## VIIZZY (Mar 22, 2014)

theredpanda said:


> Yeah- he didn't ever manipulate people into doing things- just lied so he wouldn't get caught.


The only example I can see where he played on a characters emotions is with Mina. Possibly the other guy that was obsessed with him but my memory is saying that that guy was driven by his own ego and wanted status (to be Kira/Light's right hand man). Possibly the reporter ex classmate as well. 

I think he used emotional manipulation very sparingly and was more focused on manipulating evidence.


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## theredpanda (Jan 18, 2014)

VIIZZY said:


> The only example I can see where he played on a characters emotions is with Mina. Possibly the other guy that was obsessed with him but my memory is saying that that guy was driven by his own ego and wanted status (to be Kira/Light's right hand man). Possibly the reporter ex classmate as well.
> 
> I think he used emotional manipulation very sparingly and was more focused on manipulating evidence.


Oh yeah I remember that- but I don't think manipulation of people came very easily to him- although he could do it


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## VIIZZY (Mar 22, 2014)

theredpanda said:


> Oh yeah I remember that- but I don't think manipulation of people came very easily to him- although he could do it


Agreed; he only did it when he had to. He didn't like relying on others at all.


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## theredpanda (Jan 18, 2014)

VIIZZY said:


> Agreed; he only did it when he had to. He didn't like relying on others at all.


I agree with that.


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## overthinker123 (Apr 21, 2014)

i heard somewhere that psychopaths if they can feel, can feel normally but also have the ability to completely shut down there emotional/feely side whenever


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## theredpanda (Jan 18, 2014)

overthinker123 said:


> i heard somewhere that psychopaths if they can feel, can feel normally but also have the ability to completely shut down there emotional/feely side whenever


Well in that case I'm a psychopath


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## overthinker123 (Apr 21, 2014)

theredpanda said:


> Well in that case I'm a psychopath


I know a lot of ENTP's that are.

My Business major ENTP friend can manipulate and mislead others to spending crazy amounts of money that they are essentially losing. He just shuts his feeling side off and tells me there's no emotions allowed in business


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## theredpanda (Jan 18, 2014)

overthinker123 said:


> I know a lot of ENTP's that are.
> 
> My Business major ENTP friend can manipulate and mislead others to spending crazy amounts of money that they are essentially losing. He just shuts his feeling side off and tells me there's no emotions allowed in business


I don't like turning my emotions off but I can very easily if I have to. Don't think I'm a psychopath though, honestly. I've heard it said everyone has an empath switch- normal people have theirs automatically turned on and psychopaths have theirs automatically turned off but you can flip the "switch" though it is very difficult. It seems my switch is naturally turned on but I have much more control over it than the average person and can flick it off with relative ease.


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