# The Supervision Thread.



## MNiS (Jan 30, 2010)

Post your experiences with your Supervisor here. :happy:


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## Dedication (Jun 11, 2013)

I'm an ILI. I've been in a relationship/FB's with a LSE for almost a year. I've been friends with an EIE for almost 7 years. My brother is a SEI and my sister is an EIE. My mentor from college was an EIE. I know a LSE manager who has 3 SEI's working below him. My LII friend had a relationship (and is now friends with) an IEE.

What exactly do you want to know? I might be able to answer some questions.

Something I noticed: the supervisor will suffer some degree of psychological pain whenever the supervisee uses their creative function. Because of this, no matter how 'mature' the supervisee or supervisor is, (recoverable) damage will be done. That is why I recommend to not engage any kind of supervisor/supervisee relationship unless there is a reason to do so.


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## Dalton (Jun 10, 2013)

Dedication said:


> Something I noticed: the supervisor will suffer some degree of psychological pain whenever the supervisee uses their creative function.


Can you explain what you mean by this?


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## Gentleman (Jun 14, 2014)

I thought this would be a thread to engage in supervision relations.


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## Dedication (Jun 11, 2013)

Dalton said:


> Can you explain what you mean by this?


Yes, and I think I should. While it's much easier to experience what I mean, I'll say a little about it from my own experience. Take note: with psychological pain I mean stuff like headaches, minor things that will fade away in time. Any pain that isn't related to physical pain.

The LSE and me were alone, getting it on. She wanted to be very intimate. During it, she wanted me to look at her without looking away for minutes on and. After, she wanted to keep physical contact with cuddles, hugs and snuggling up to each other. We did this many times. Being close with her caused my Ni to shut down, hard. Each time I got home and finally got to rest, I always felt my head hurting for hours on end. It would take 1-2 days for me to recover.

Being with her caused me to pintpoint what Ni was exactly and what it wasn't. I could see how people lived their lifes without Ni, which to me, was like a directionless and meaningless life. Without Ni, all directive and meaning comes almost exclusively from outside sources, instead of from within. I found it to be a mind boggeling way of living.

It was eye opening to have had this kind of relationship with my supervisee. I could finally understand why my childhood friend was never cheerful around me, why he felt the need to 'push back' whenever I used my creative function. Just like how the LSE used her creative on me and I felt like pushing her back, he dismissed any kind of information coming from my creative function.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

@Dedication how do you explain how Ni would somehow give rise to physical sensations in the body? Isn't that an Si thing to experience? The Ni type is decidedly out of tune and out of touch with those experiences.


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## MNiS (Jan 30, 2010)

Dedication said:


> I'm an ILI. I've been in a relationship/FB's with a LSE for almost a year. I've been friends with an EIE for almost 7 years. My brother is a SEI and my sister is an EIE. My mentor from college was an EIE. I know a LSE manager who has 3 SEI's working below him. My LII friend had a relationship (and is now friends with) an IEE.
> 
> What exactly do you want to know? I might be able to answer some questions.
> 
> Something I noticed: the supervisor will suffer some degree of psychological pain whenever the supervisee uses their creative function. Because of this, no matter how 'mature' the supervisee or supervisor is, (recoverable) damage will be done. That is why I recommend to not engage any kind of supervisor/supervisee relationship unless there is a reason to do so.


Awesome, great. I don't have any questions as I also have a ton of experience with EIEs and LSEs. I made this thread so that people can share their experiences on how it's not as scary an intertype relationship as most people automatically assume that they are. I can relate to the statement that when the Supervisee uses their creative it does cause some psychological pain. When an LSE goes full Si they can be painfully detailed.



Gentleman said:


> I thought this would be a thread to engage in supervision relations.


That wasn't the purpose, but I suppose we could pair you up with an honest to goodness SLI if you want experience with Supervision. :wink:


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## Dalton (Jun 10, 2013)

MNiS said:


> Awesome, great. I don't have any questions as I also have a ton of experience with EIEs and LSEs. I made this thread so that people can share their experiences on how it's not as scary an intertype relationship as most people automatically assume that they are. I can relate to the statement that when the Supervisee uses their creative it does cause some psychological pain. When an LSE goes full Si they can be painfully detailed.


Alternatively, I was interpreting it as painful for the ILI because he has to refrain from pointing at the LSE's creative Si and insisting he use PoLR Ni. @_Dedication_ Is either interpretation correct? I've not experienced lasting relations with an LSE that I could identify.

I recently posted in another thread about being the Supervisee:


Dalton said:


> _The following is entirely experiential:
> _
> I've been close to at least two ENFJs. They are my "Supervisors", just as an INTJ would be to you (assuming that you're ESTJ). With my male ENFJ friend, I enjoyed his company for many years, but eventually we had a major conflict of values. This was essentially due to his dominant Fe and my PoLR Fe ("Point of Least Resistance", my weakest and least-enjoyable function).
> 
> The Supervisor has a belief that you "should" value the function, and sees you as a project to develop. My Supervisors felt like they were "helping". However, when I accepted their Supervision, I ultimately felt dirty. For me, using and observing Fe feels dishonest and unnatural. I might extrapolate that for you, an ESTJ, using Ni (as an INTJ partner will undoubtedly encourage) could give you a similar "dirty" feeling.





Entropic said:


> @_Dedication_ how do you explain how Ni would somehow give rise to physical sensations in the body? Isn't that an Si thing to experience? The Ni type is decidedly out of tune and out of touch with those experiences.


I can't speak for him, but I think he was speaking of non-physical "headaches".


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## Gentleman (Jun 14, 2014)

MNiS said:


> That wasn't the purpose, but I suppose we could pair you up with an honest to goodness SLI if you want experience with Supervision. :wink:


May I ask why SLI is my supervision partner?


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## MNiS (Jan 30, 2010)

Gentleman said:


> May I ask why SLI is my supervision partner?


I'd gather that you are an LIE(ENTj).


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## Gentleman (Jun 14, 2014)

MNiS said:


> I'd gather that you are an LIE(ENTj).


May I ask for your reasoning as to why I'm an LIE?


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## MNiS (Jan 30, 2010)

Dalton said:


> Alternatively, I was interpreting it as painful for the ILI because he has to refrain from pointing at the LSE's creative Si and insisting he use PoLR Ni.


That could definitely be painful, especially if one is _supposed_ to remain quiet and not offer alternative viewpoints. I'm sure Dedication can explain more about what he meant though.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Dalton said:


> I can't speak for him, but I think he was speaking of non-physical "headaches".


I actually perfectly understand that he was expressing that they were not per se, actual headaches, but the truth remains that he chose to express it as such, as headaches, that psychological pain gives rise to headaches that are decidedly a physiological phenomenon. That's a curious way of experiencing reality, don't you think? And seems out of touch with how I understand Ni to operate, hence I asked for clarification what he meant.


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## MNiS (Jan 30, 2010)

Gentleman said:


> May I ask for your reasoning as to why I'm an LIE?


Sure, if you'd like to make a type me thread I'd be more than happy to assist you with finding your type. :happy:


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## Dedication (Jun 11, 2013)

Entropic said:


> @_Dedication_ how do you explain how Ni would somehow give rise to physical sensations in the body? Isn't that an Si thing to experience? The Ni type is decidedly out of tune and out of touch with those experiences.


It wasn't really that Ni gave rise to physical sensation in the body. It was recovering from the lack of Ni which give me pain.

What happened was that whenever she, the LSE, got intimate with me by staring at each other, hugging and cuddling my Ni would shut down. Acces to my imagination stopped. The place where mental movies would run and my general thoughts resided stopped working. 

If I were to describe it as such: There's the observer (who I identify with as 'me'), open space in which all my thoughts and imagination goes on and then comes reality. Her Si caused the gap between me and reality to close.

An important note: I'm not sure if 'reality' is the right word, physicality or inner body experience might be a better way of putting it. As the gap made me laid back and not identify with my body. Without the gap I could understand how somebody without it does identify with their body. I think I'm missing the right vocabulary to replace the word 'reality' with the right word.

I know that I didn't experience Si, especially not the way she did. The only thing that happened to me was a lack of Ni and the need to recover from it. It was during recovery that the gap opened up again and I felt pain. Spending the night with her took me 1-2 days to recover in order for me to see and experience the 'gap' with full clarity again.



Dalton said:


> Alternatively, I was interpreting it as painful for the ILI because he has to refrain from pointing at the LSE's creative Si and insisting he use PoLR Ni. @_Dedication_ Is either interpretation correct? I've not experienced lasting relations with an LSE that I could identify.


Yes I had to be careful with how I used my Ni. But the pain didn't came from being careful, it came from accepting her Si and allowing it to override my Ni. Interestingly, I don't think I ever experienced Si. I just experienced being without 'Ni' for a while and Ni got replaced with pain.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

@Dedication whatever you are writing doesn't make much sense to me, tbh. I don't get the whole physical experience could make you identify less with your body. Physical touch is very carnal, so shouldn't you feel more in your body than vice versa? Especially as an intuitive and an ILI, who decidedly often feel out of touch with theirs and rarely if ever notice bodily sensations. Shouldn't that tap into the DS/role by making you focus more on actual physical experience in the present? 

The only psychological pain that I've experienced feeling out of touch with myself, was when I was once quite drunk and a drunk ESE managed to make me Fe with her, but it felt painful because it felt insincere, inauthentic and that the Fe wasn't me or a part of me. And I felt dirty and disgusted afterwards, like the very inner being of who I am was violated and like I've been turned inside out. I felt empty, like she took something important away from me without giving anything back in return. 

Focusing too much on my physical body and inner bodily sensations can have a bit of a similar effect in that it feels wrong, nonsensical, childish, boring, trivial, useless, menial. Like breathing exercises for example. Why should I sit and count and focus on my sense of breathing? I got more and interesting things to think about.


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## Dalton (Jun 10, 2013)

Entropic said:


> @_Dedication_ whatever you are writing doesn't make much sense to me, tbh. I don't get the whole physical experience could make you identify less with your body. Physical touch is very carnal, so shouldn't you feel more in your body than vice versa? Especially as an intuitive and an ILI, who decidedly often feel out of touch with theirs and rarely if ever notice bodily sensations. Shouldn't that tap into the DS/role by making you focus more on actual physical experience in the present?


When your partner emphasizes your Role, you disconnect from your Base function (and maybe even perform with your Ignoring function because your partner expects it). When your partner emphasizes your DS, it works in unison with the Base.
When somebody is pushing your Role down your throat, it's incorrect to say that it helps you tap into the DS.



> Focusing too much on my physical body and inner bodily sensations can have a bit of a similar effect in that it feels wrong, nonsensical, childish, boring, trivial, useless, menial. Like breathing exercises for example. Why should I sit and count and focus on my sense of breathing? I got more and interesting things to think about.


Meditation on breath seems like Si-style meditation. When I meditate (which is rare but fulfilling), I achieve a richer sensing the _outer_ world, but not necessarily a connection to myself.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Dalton said:


> When your partner emphasizes your Role, you disconnect from your Base function (and maybe even perform with your Ignoring function because your partner expects it). When your partner emphasizes your DS, it works in unison with the Base.
> When somebody is pushing your Role down your throat, it's incorrect to say that it helps you tap into the DS.


Why the fuck are you even bothering to respond when you are clearly missing the point and context of what is being expressed? The point is that sensation is sensation, and that emphasis on sensation will bring emphasis on sensation. This has nothing to do with the role function. You have every ability to reject information expressed through someone else's Si, it's not like you have to be receptive to it or suddenly change your own preferred metabolism just because someone else is expressing information through that particular element, lol. It's not like you are always automatically being subject to some brainwash. 



> Meditation on breath seems like Si-style meditation. When I meditate (which is rare but fulfilling), I achieve a richer sensing the _outer_ world, but not necessarily a connection to myself.


?????? What has that got to do with anything?


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## To_august (Oct 13, 2013)

I had an ESE colleague who took a habit of noticing little details of what's wrong with me each time we met. It was irritating, but bearable as she didn't seem to have any malicious intents. 

Once we had to work together on a project and spent more time together than we usually did. In the process she somehow managed to talk me into gossiping, and after telling tales about her relatives, acquaintances and celebrities I didn't care about, she started to talk how I should wear skirts more often, cause they are so feminine and girls have to wear them, what clothes I should buy and what must-haves should I have, and that she'll give me discount cards for free, and what edgy dresses she had and that she'll introduce me to someone and so on and so forth. 

I understood that she did mean good in trying to fix me and as I didn't want to damage relations with her (we were supposed to work together afterwords) I tried to keep up friendly conversation. But it was experience of serious mental exhaustion. I felt like a man with a heavy baggage running after the train, without any hope to catch up to it.
Luckily for both of us, she moved to another job later.


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## Dalton (Jun 10, 2013)

Entropic said:


> Why the fuck are you even bothering to respond when you are clearly missing the point and context of what is being expressed? The point is that sensation is sensation, and that emphasis on sensation will bring emphasis on sensation. This has nothing to do with the role function. You have every ability to reject information expressed through someone else's Si, it's not like you have to be receptive to it or suddenly change your own preferred metabolism just because someone else is expressing information through that particular element, lol. It's not like you are always automatically being subject to some brainwash.


Whoaaaaa calm down, buddy. I wasn't attacking you. No need to get so defensive. 

MY point is that Introverted Sensation is not Extraverted Sensation, yet you are falsely equating them. Of course they are both forms of Sensation, but only one of these forms is valued by any individual. In the case of an ILI, when you're forced to deal with the Introverted variety against your own preference, it will NOT activate its Extraverted counterpart in the way you suggest. 



> ?????? What has that got to do with anything?


While positing that sensation activates both Si & Se, you shared your experience with focusing upon your body and how it's supposedly a waste of your time. I gave an example of how _similar_ activities can take an Se flavor instead of Si, to show that there are different sorts of sensation, although you seem to be ignoring the importance of Intro- and Extroversion.


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## Mutant Hive Queen (Oct 29, 2013)

Entropic said:


> @_Dedication_ whatever you are writing doesn't make much sense to me, tbh. I don't get the whole physical experience could make you identify less with your body. Physical touch is very carnal, so shouldn't you feel more in your body than vice versa? Especially as an intuitive and an ILI, who decidedly often feel out of touch with theirs and rarely if ever notice bodily sensations. Shouldn't that tap into the DS/role by making you focus more on actual physical experience in the present?


He wasn't saying his experience made him out of touch with it. If anything he was saying he was _more_ in touch with it after cuddling with her. "The gap", the space between him and his body, _closed_ after being with her. That _bothered_ him, because the greater attunement to the body made him less able to access all the purely mental concepts that he actually cared about. 

So, perfectly ILI response, all around. Although frankly I'd have expected the greater amount of Si-ing to come about from forced _Ne_, since forced Ni is what's supposed to make an ILE feel like they've lost access to Ne and have to use Se instead.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Dalton said:


> Whoaaaaa calm down, buddy. I wasn't attacking you. No need to get so defensive.
> 
> MY point is that Introverted Sensation is not Extraverted Sensation, yet you are falsely equating them. Of course they are both forms of Sensation, but only one of these forms is valued by any individual. In the case of an ILI, when you're forced to deal with the Introverted variety against your own preference, it will NOT activate its Extraverted counterpart in the way you suggest.
> 
> ...


No, not going to bother. 



Autvoyeur said:


> He wasn't saying his experience made him out of touch with it. If anything he was saying he was _more_ in touch with it after cuddling with her. "The gap", the space between him and his body, _closed_ after being with her. That _bothered_ him, because the greater attunement to the body made him less able to access all the purely mental concepts that he actually cared about.
> 
> So, perfectly ILI response, all around. Although frankly I'd have expected the greater amount of Si-ing to come about from forced _Ne_, since forced Ni is what's supposed to make an ILE feel like they've lost access to Ne and have to use Se instead.


Except, he didn't? You read this part? 



> An important note: I'm not sure if 'reality' is the right word, physicality or inner body experience might be a better way of putting it. *As the gap made me laid back and not identify with my body. Without the gap I could understand how somebody without it does identify with their body. *I think I'm missing the right vocabulary to replace the word 'reality' with the right word.


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## Mutant Hive Queen (Oct 29, 2013)

Entropic said:


> Except, he didn't? You read this part?


Yes. That's exactly the part to which I was referring. 

You're assuming the gap came into existence when he cuddled with the LSE, but what he actually said was that he _always_ hd that gap, and cuddling with the LSE caused it to "close", in the same sense distance is "closed", a.k.a. disappearing.

Actually, sorry, referring to this part: 




> If I were to describe it as such: *There's the observer (who I identify with as 'me'), open space in which all my thoughts and imagination goes on and then comes reality. Her Si caused the gap between me and reality to close.*


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## Gentleman (Jun 14, 2014)

MNiS said:


> Sure, if you'd like to make a type me thread I'd be more than happy to assist you with finding your type. :happy:


Okay, I created a thread here: http://personalitycafe.com/whats-my-socionics-type/445026-forty-philosophical-questions-answered-attempt-determine-my-type.html#post14198882. Please explain your reasoning for LIE.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Autvoyeur said:


> Yes. That's exactly the part to which I was referring.
> 
> You're assuming the gap came into existence when he cuddled with the LSE, but what he actually said was that he _always_ hd that gap, and cuddling with the LSE caused it to "close", in the same sense distance is "closed", a.k.a. disappearing.
> 
> Actually, sorry, referring to this part:


Except he's saying he's also identifying with the body, and the closing of this gap made him express that he did no longer feel that he did, from the way I read it.


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## Mutant Hive Queen (Oct 29, 2013)

Entropic said:


> Except he's saying he's also identifying with the body, and the closing of this gap made him express that he did no longer feel that he did.


Again, no. The gap made him _not_ identify with his body. _Without_ the gap, he still admits he didn't _fully_ identify with his body, but he also states he understands the experience of identifying with one's body more now, which suggests he came closer to doing so.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Autvoyeur said:


> Again, no. The gap made him _not_ identify with his body. _Without_ the gap, he still admits he didn't _fully_ identify with his body, but he also states he understands the experience of identifying with one's body more now, which suggests he came closer to doing so.


I reread it and it does seem like you are interpreting it correctly, but I would still rather want to hear what he thinks about it because of the way it's worded.


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## tangosthenes (Oct 29, 2011)

smothered!


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## Pancreatic Pandora (Aug 16, 2013)

Meh I don't have much experience with supervision but I can say that EIEs make me uncomfortable. I tend to get a mixture of attraction, annoyance and anxiety around them, kind of. Sometimes I feel we get each other, sometimes they puzzle me and they choose to focus on dumb stuff. Overall, I think I tend to avoid them unless they seem nice/interesting. Last time I was part of a debate on philosophy (or something like that) with an EIE acquaintance, I felt like he wanted to discuss things on a level I thought was pointless and when trying to respond in my way he didn't take my arguments very seriously, he didn't think they meant much. 

Regarding LSEs, I have no idea.


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## bzn (Jan 4, 2014)

LII here. Have an SLE uncle and had some close SLE 'friends'. I'd say judicious/decisive, democratic/aristocratic, and asking/declaring dichotomies had the most to do with any issues that arose. 

In my opinion SLE are better when they are alone than if you are with them in a group. I've always enjoyed my uncles no nonsense yet carefree attitude as well as his crude humor usually made at someones expense. At first it was kind of painful being subjected to jokes in front of others but now that I understand socionics/mbti, it is more easily ignorable since that's just what they do. SLE have a tendency to not be as loyal to a friend when they are putting on appearances for others, at least in my experience, which would feel like a betrayal at times. Being cautious or expressing caution around an SLE is a great way for an LII to set themselves up for a witty joke that doesn't feel like a joke sometimes. When me and my SLE "best friend" were kids, he would think of bad stuff for us to do and I would always be apprehensive and he would essentially tell me to stop being a pussy. 

When I decided to make healthy living a much more important aspect in my life, sometimes this was met with what felt to me to be insensitive jokes from my uncle. But he has almost died due to ignoring his health for decades and still sometimes isn't as careful as he should be. SEE also made jokes about my lifestyle changes, but his jokes were more malicious and less funny. I didn't feel as personally insulted though, since I secretly admire SLEs and wish I could have more of their ability to just get what they want and be charming. SEE to me just seemed like a delusional person, so being insulted by them just seems more childish and annoying. SLE also had the redeeming quality of being able to talk about them about abstract concepts like fantasy football strategy, technical specs on stuff, computers, games/gaming strategy. SEE could talk about with football, but would disagree with their view, they had no interest in anything remotely abstract and just wanted to watch stupid youtube videos and dumb cartoons and be loud and annoying and make dumb jokes. SLE would know when they are wrong, they wouldn't like it and would quiet down. SEE will debate you that the earth revolves around the sun and won't shut up about it ever. 

Over time SLE 'friends' (I say friend cause they were both not very loyal and would throw you under the bus despite what seemed to be a good friendship) caused me to slowly not want to be around them. I have no SLE friends/acquaintances at the moment. 

I have known two IEEs for sure. First was a good friend, around the previously mentioned SEE I could get out of hand with the trolling. The IEE friend seemed rather sensitive and sometimes I think I went too far. Kinda sucks, he was a good friend that I could always count on introduce someone new to me. We shared interests in fantasy novels and various pop science topics. My psychologist is an IEE and interestingly shared a similar career path as my friend (dead end low paying jobs all over the place during 20s but with obviously much more potential just needs direction) and also shared similar mannerisms and intonation and rhythm of speech. Both were/are attracted by my random and wide knowledge of useless information. I could enjoy 'weirder' experimental music with both as well. I enjoy both, and I think LII-IEE might be one of the more smoothly operating supervision relations. I think by knowing socionics and having a more clear understanding of how to subtly direct and redirect relations you can make for a more peaceful stress- free supervision relation for the supervisee.


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