# So you say you're an Ni dom or Aux



## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

Can you please enlighten us. I was hoping you would do a palm reading on me. 

On a serious note: Ni users how do you know you're an Ni user?


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## Falling Foxes (Oct 19, 2016)

They have uncanny intuition. You can't doubt their reasonings for just "knowing" that they are Ni-doms.


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

Falling Foxes said:


> They have uncanny intuition. You can't doubt their reasonings for just "knowing" that they are Ni-doms.


Agree 

But I am asking them to explain it because of so many mistypes.


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## MusiCago (Jan 3, 2017)

Sensational said:


> Agree
> 
> But I am asking them to explain it because of so many mistypes.


Not trying to be rude or anything, but theres literally no point to this post. How do you know youre an Se Dom? How does an Fi dom _know_ theyre an Fi Dom? You read about the functions, take a few tests maybe, study and try to understand typology in general and the types, and it all eventually just "clicks". I don't think you should be "discriminating" (this is definitely not the word I'm looking for but my mind's gone blank lol) against Ni doms, because the reasoning behind figuring out their type is the same process as every other person trying to figure out their type. Ni isn't more "special" than any other function, it's just the least common ego function in Americans (as far as I know). Who knows? Ni doms/auxs might be the most common in Asian culture.

As far as mistyping goes, there's no proof (to my knowledge) to show xNxJ is the most common mistype, so I think the reasoning behind why people mistype is for another thread


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## Reila (Jan 17, 2017)

Sensational said:


> Agree
> 
> But I am asking them to explain it because of so many mistypes.


Are there really that many mistypes? It is true INFJ is the rarest type, but being rare doesn't mean non-existent. On the internet, it shouldn't be surprising that INFJs aren't extremely rare, as with the type being one of the most introverted ones. 

Of course, that is not to say there are not a lot of people mistyping as INFJs. I suppose some people are more interested in the "status" that comes with a type, rather than knowing their actual type and looking for improving themselves as persons. 

As for how one gets to know they are a Ni-dom? In my opinion, there is no such thing as "just knowing". It is about self analysis and studying cognitive functions. An INFJ or INTJ can have a hunch they are Ni-dom, but they will not know until they dig into the subject and into their own mind.


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

MusiCago said:


> Not trying to be rude or anything, but theres literally no point to this post. How do you know youre an Se Dom? How does an Fi dom _know_ theyre an Fi Dom? You read about the functions, take a few tests maybe, study and try to understand typology in general and the types, and it all eventually just "clicks". I don't think you should be "discriminating" against Ni doms, because the reasoning behind figuring out their type is the same process as every other person trying to figure out their type. Ni isn't more "special" than any other function, it's just the least common preferred ego function in Americans (as far as I know). Who knows? Ni doms/auxs might be the most common in Asian culture.


Yes the point is though I am willing to consider I could not be an Se dom. By gathering various descriptions of people types in various spectrums though I do think can be beneficial to drawing conclusions. Whether I am an Se dom or not is more irrelevant. As to having a bunch of people who self type of the same type actually observe interpretation directly next to each other. I do believe the relevance is in comparison and contrast and similarities to help gain insight. (This right here could also be used as an example of how I view Ti use as far as categorizing for analysis). But exactly who am I alone to say it right hence looking for other interpretations of functions to compare and contrast. Maybe I am not Se or Ti but actually being willing to throw my interpretations of their use out there and put it up for debate to examine was more the point.

If for example 4/10 people typed as Ni dom/aux are wrong and using circular reasoning to draw their conclusions wouldn't it make sense for them to at least see 6/10 people explaining 

Of course it's all hypothetical.

I think you misunderstood my entire point I don't actually believe Ni to be more special. Some of my post was sarcasm jabbing at many people self typing often in favor of Ni.

None of you owe explanations for your self typing but if you lack providing reason thru your interpretations of why you type yourself why are you even commenting on the thread.


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## Reila (Jan 17, 2017)

I think the idea of your thread is interesting, by the way. 

For further understanding on what is Introverted Intuition and how it works, I recommend the following links: 

NiFe (INFJ) â€” Type in Mind
How Functions Work: Dominant Ni (INTJ/INFJ) - Type Theory
How Functions Work: Auxiliary Ni (ENTJ/ENFJ) - Type Theory

Last but not least, this user's perspective on Ni is very interesting.

http://personalitycafe.com/cognitive-functions/673802-introverted-intuition-explained-ni-dom.html

P.S.: I don't palm read on Wednesdays.


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## Falling Foxes (Oct 19, 2016)

MusiCago said:


> I don't think you should be "discriminating" (this is definitely not the word I'm looking for but my mind's gone blank lol) against Ni doms, because the reasoning behind figuring out their type is the same process as every other person trying to figure out their type.


In defence of @Sensational this isn't the only function related thread Sensational has posted recently. Not just targeting you guys.


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

Reila Nimu said:


> I think the idea of your thread is interesting, by the way.
> 
> For further understanding on what is Introverted Intuition and how it works, I recommend the following links:
> 
> ...


Sorry but maybe it's my supposed (but possibly not too) higher Ti still saying I am not asking for copied and pasted links to support descriptions I am asking Ni doms to explain it. Because I think the authentic Ni doms are going to bring insight if they could offer it direct it would be useful to help gain understanding.


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## Reila (Jan 17, 2017)

Sensational said:


> Sorry but maybe it's my supposed (but possibly not too) higher Ti still saying I am not asking for copied and pasted links to support descriptions I am asking Ni doms to explain it. Because I think the authentic Ni doms are going to bring insight if they could offer it direct it would be useful to help gain understanding.


Ignore my post and move on with life, then. Wait for the "authentic Ni doms" to share their knowledge. :kitteh:


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

Reila Nimu said:


> Ignore my post and move on with life, then. Wait for the "authentic Ni doms" to share their knowledge. :kitteh:


I am just hoping any of you will actually answer instead of argue or copy someone else's words. I never once questioned your individual type at all.


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## SpaceMan (Dec 11, 2014)

MusiCago said:


> As far as mistyping goes, there's no proof (to my knowledge) to show xNxJ is the most common mistype, so I think the reasoning behind why people mistype is for another thread


I suppose the statistics you find regarding MBTI types (whether valid or invalid) have some say in this, along with the large influx of self-proclaimed Ni-users on the web. Of course, this concerns N types in general. 

And you're right, since according to your logic no one can know anything. But that doesn't sound like a fair way to dismiss questioning, though.


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## adumbrate (Feb 13, 2017)

I'm more curious about what inferior Ni is like. :courage:


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## Knave (Sep 9, 2017)

Reila Nimu's inference might relate to heavy Ni, where you mention authentic Ni doms, and in turn she interprets beyond the literal interpretation and sees it as a jab towards her own "mistyping." She looks behind the veil. 

Or it could be Ne, I don't know, because I thought the same thing as Reila Nimu when I read your post, a subtle shot that she isn't an "authentic Ni dom."


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

rpmcmurphy47 said:


> Reila Nimu's inference might relate to heavy Ni, where you mention authentic Ni doms, and in turn she interprets beyond the literal interpretation and sees it as a jab towards her own "mistyping." She looks behind the veil. Or it could be Ne, I don't know, because I thought the same thing as Reila Nimu when I read your post.


Just for the record I grasp that. My intention was probably lost in delivery.

So far the only thing I have been able to conclude is that people typed as Ni users evade questions :laughing: because no one will explain anything else


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## Asd456 (Jul 25, 2017)

Sensational said:


> Can you please enlighten us. I was hoping you would do a palm reading on me.
> 
> On a serious note: Ni users how do you know you're an Ni user?


1. I know because I value Te (my first function) and Si is my weakest (my polr function). 

2. It's a process of elimination. According to Socionics, gammas and betas value Ni; so, it's possible to differentiate by comparing the two.

3. To be clear, although there's an element of predictability, Ni isn't always right. There's always room for error. 

4. IMO, there's nothing mystical or magical about Ni. It is simply pattern recognition and synthesis of data applicable to the future. For example, it's taking the accumulated data to calculate the probability and likelihood of something to occur - with room for error.

*This is from the perspective of Te-Ni and will vary taking into account the order of the placement.


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## jetser (Jan 6, 2016)

There were a lot of threads explaining Ni recently.
The problem is, that if you go too far you will just sound ridiculous.
Especially that Ni is subjective - everyone lives it differently.
But if I have to sum it up, I would say that it's like watching TV. It's like the whole world is a TV that you're lookin at, and you may even interact with it, but you're never gonna live it - fully.



> On a serious note: Ni users how do you know you're an Ni user?


Maybe it just came out, you know in a test?


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## Turi (May 9, 2017)

They can't describe it, all you get is copy-pastes from other people, and if you question them, they get defensive and hostile.

Last night, I got kicked out of a couple of INFJ Facebook groups for asking and questioning the same thing, practically.


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## charlie.elliot (Jan 22, 2014)

You are aware that a thread comes up probably about once or twice a month asking this exact same question, right? Something along the lines of "please explain Ni", "how do you know you're Ni", etc.

The short answer, for me, is the same as it is for everyone: I studied all the functions, and Ni fit my behavior the best, by far. I've learned about all the functions and considered how I use all of them, but never found had any reason to think I wasn't Ni-dom. 
I suspect this is the exact same process most people go through. 

I wonder if the reason these threads pop up so often about Ni is that it's not well-explained, it's hard to understand, maybe more divergent from other functions, etc. That's understandable, so maybe it would be helpful to step back and remember that Ni is nothing special. It's just one of the 8 functions, one of the 8 specific things that everyone has the ability to do at certain times in their lives. From that perspective, is it necessary to challenge Ni-users and be like "please explain yourself" while seeming to imply that they're bullshitting everyone?
Ni is nothing special, you can do it, everyone can do it, it's just something some people do more than others. That's all. For the record, Se seems like the most amazing function to me, I can't begin to fathom how you guys do it, but I know you're different from me and I know you've been practicing it your entire life.



Sensational said:


> Just for the record I grasp that. My intention was probably lost in delivery.
> 
> So far the only thing I have been able to conclude is that people typed as Ni users evade questions :laughing: because no one will explain anything else



What on earth is it that you want people to explain? Read a description of Ni; that descriptions roughly fits my behavior in many cases, more so than other functions do. What else is there to explain?

Maybe it would help if you asked specific questions about how the functions work... although, that is what this entire forum is for, so...


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## charlie.elliot (Jan 22, 2014)

@Turi good lord why get so butthurt about it? What difference does it make to you? Why do you need to interrogate people to get them to prove their type to you? If people are mistyped, they will figure it out eventually. You will figure out your type eventually. Funny how its always INFJs who get questioned-- why not ask the ISFJs "how do you KNOW you're ISFJ and not INFJ-- PROVE it!"

(this was in response to your above post that you deleted most of)


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## Mr Castelo (May 28, 2017)

The red spirit said:


> I have suspicions, that he may have made some consistency mistakes with how he described those. I personally find it hard to read, what he wrote due to his writing style. If we just knew components of the functions then we may understand functions better, therefore types too. Jung offered descriptions of functions of how he understood them, but different people may understand concept a bit differently. Due to that we should understand how functions are made or rather from what they are made.


His writing is rather dense indeed, but I didn't find it too hard to understand. If it helps, there is a Tumblr that made "abridged" versions of Jung's descriptions with an easier to digest English.

Link.


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## The red spirit (Sep 29, 2015)

angelfish said:


> Guess who identifies as that type again.


probably a Holy Spirit, because it's too holy to do an earthly mistake.


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## The red spirit (Sep 29, 2015)

Mr Castelovania said:


> His writing is rather dense indeed, but I didn't find it too hard to understand. If it helps, there is a Tumblr that made "abridged" versions of Jung's descriptions with an easier to digest English.
> 
> Link.


No need to link it for me. I have the whole book myself in my native language. For some reason my head sort of overheats if I'm trying to fully understand every word, that he tries to say. I gotta admit, that I never read other parts of the book, except cognitive function ones. I think I should do that, but no time for that and I have some other interests currently.


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## baitedcrow (Dec 22, 2015)

Ni basically triangulates or deduces a probable underlying cause or eventual outcome for any observed phenomenon and then presents the insight(s) in a way that "skips" consciousness of the details of the process that produced them - though for me at least the details of how I get to where I get aren't usually too hard to determine once I concentrate on that part, it just comes after the initial "oh - this!". And of the functions it most closely matches my brain's go-to mode of operation as far as I can tell, and as far as people I knew who knew JCF theory could tell back last I was seriously investigating my MBTI/JCF type. On top of that, dominant Ni means inferior Se according to JCF theory, and I exhibit a lot of inferior Se traits as well. 

If you crack open my skull you aren't going to find "Ni" stamped on it. "Ni" just describes the way I think best.

If you want a weird behavioral "tell" that I know has been described by quite a few JCF theorists... since the impressions Ni gives are abstract and also subjective, Ni users supposedly have a tendency to express themselves through comparative language, metaphors, analogies, similes and the like. I've noticed this in myself and in a number of long-time-posting supposed-Ni doms on this forum.


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## Turi (May 9, 2017)

Duo said:


> I see patterns everywhere and look for underlying meaning in most things.


Can you name a type who doesn't search for any kind of underlying meaning?
I feel this descriptor of Ni is a cop-out.

I can't think of a soul I've met, in my entire life, who would agree to to "I do not see patterns anywhere. I do not search for meanings".

Any type that simply takes everything at face value, would be a goldfish, they wouldn't be able to breathe without the aid of others.
They would fall for the same tricks over and over again.

Your description, as relateable as it is - doesn't work.



charlie.elliot said:


> I try to honestly and genuinely explain my personal thought processes, in literal language, and how I think these are evidence of using Ni-- but I met with the forum equivalent of blank stares, because it's all too weird, and nobody else really gets what I am talking about.


Try me.



charlie.elliot said:


> The people who go around challenging INFJs and demanding explanations are the ones who seem insecure.


Has it occurred to you, that some people simply like knowledge?

I seek a deep and comprehensive understanding of all of the functions, Ni isn't anything special to me, I don't find it mystical at all, in fact I find it incredibly raw and primitive and fail to comprehend how Ni gained any traction as a function surrounded by any kind of mystique.

Si on the other hand, now there's a magical function - worthy of further exploration - if ever there was one.

But, like the rest - Ni is a cognitive function, and I'm interested in cognitive function theory.
So I ask questions of Ni users and seek to discover how it works - the reason for my focus on Ni so far, is because I believed myself to be a dominant Ni user, no other reason.

I don't prefer it over any other function.

Perhaps my intuition isn't kicking in here - what's with the random suggestion anyone is "insecure"?
I don't see the relevance.



Sensational said:


> I apologize now for any INFJ casualties (I am totally serious) my lack of Ni did not predict that backlash while baiting the issue to get an actual exhibit displayed.


If they could foresee patterns and peer into the future as much as the descriptors make out, they wouldn't have clicked on the thread in the first place.

Badoom tish.


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## incision (May 23, 2010)

Turi said:


> Can you name a type who doesn't search for any kind of underlying meaning?
> I feel this descriptor of Ni is a cop-out.
> 
> I can't think of a soul I've met, in my entire life, who would agree to to "I do not see patterns anywhere. I do not search for meanings".
> ...


It works for me. Whether or not it works for you would be irrelevant to me. :shrugs:


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## Mr Castelo (May 28, 2017)

@Turi

Since you're so eager to ask people about Ni, I want to know: what do you perceive to be Ni? What is Ni to you?

This is not meant as an attack in any way, I'm legitimately curious.


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## Xcopy (Dec 10, 2016)

Just wanted to say, I can agree with the OP's curiosity about the subject at least, and while I find it interesting that there are ni-users that are defensive. It's quite strange, as it's a natural function their minds uses.. It isn't really magical in nature to say the least, it simply observes patterns and I would assume gives more of a leaning towards their bias of believing that the pattern they notice is the truth and how it works so by noticing the pattern, they can predict it's next step. Now how much they believe in this mindset, I believe depends on how far Ni is within the stacking of their functions. Keep in mind, I do not believe this is the only way this function can manifest itself. The problem with an introverted function, is because it is a subjective function, it will appear slightly different within each person. So it is possible, you may need to adjust your method of approach a bit, and instead try to find the similarity that Ni-users share, much like how I notice the different ways Ti users use Ti, and it still annoys me the same way. Knowing the function isn't enough, you have to try to notice the point in which there is little difference within the *way* it is used.


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## Gossip Goat (Nov 19, 2013)

I've noticed Ni is something like zooming in on something. The way they end up making judgement or thoughts seems to be taking in information and funneling it into something “later on” which may be the future people reference with Ni, although I don’t think it has to be exactly at a different moment in the future. Ni may keep adding on, maybe that’s the future in question. And if it's done well (most of the descriptions for Ni make the assumption that the conclusions reached by this function have to be accurate by default), it does seem to be like a very impressive use of information. Which is why I’ve heard people say they’re magical or scary. I've heard it described as tunnel vision, which is sort of negative but it kind of encompasses it. I've also heard it described as internal images and I think what that means is sort of in line with the something I mentioned they funneled. They've taken all this information and encompassed it into something new (in the case of internal images) like how Jung described the woman who had a “snake” in her stomach. It doesn't have to be entirely new in the case of a thought or something. Just a regular conclusion.

Convergent thinking is what’s associated to Ni “it generally means the ability to give the "correct" answer”, that alone doesn’t really describe the mechanism behind the function, just what happens as a result but I think the process is basically gathering information, taking it into account, and coming up with a result. Convergent thinking is associated to multiple choice tests, you have prior information given and you discard the choices that don’t align with what you know, choosing the one that’s correct. Or just “coming up” with an answer. I don’t think it *has* to be correct by default.


To a certain degree, I think most people do this, but what I’ve noticed is that Ni users do this often, with most things, but also I’ve seen them do this impressively (for better or for worst).


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## Xcopy (Dec 10, 2016)

Gossip Ghoul said:


> I've noticed Ni is something like zooming in on something. The way they end up making judgement or thoughts seems to be taking in information and funneling it into something “later on” which may be the future people reference with Ni, although I don’t think it has to be exactly at a different moment in the future. Ni may keep adding on, maybe that’s the future in question. And if it's done well (most of the descriptions for Ni make the assumption that the conclusions reached by this function have to be accurate by default), it does seem to be like a very impressive use of information. Which is why I’ve heard people say they’re magical or scary. I've heard it described as tunnel vision, which is sort of negative but it kind of encompasses it. I've also heard it described as internal images and I think what that means is sort of in line with the something I mentioned they funneled. They've taken all this information and encompassed it into something new (in the case of internal images) like how Jung described the woman who had a “snake” in her stomach. It doesn't have to be entirely new in the case of a thought or something. Just a regular conclusion.
> 
> Convergent thinking is what’s associated to Ni “it generally means the ability to give the "correct" answer”, that alone doesn’t really describe the mechanism behind the function, just what happens as a result but I think the process is basically gathering information, taking it into account, and coming up with a result. Convergent thinking is associated to multiple choice tests, you have prior information given and you discard the choices that don’t align with what you know, choosing the one that’s correct. Or just “coming up” with an answer. I don’t think it *has* to be correct by default.
> 
> ...


I can agree.. Though I believe the word choice usage you were looking for isn't necessarily tunnel vision, but more or less tunnel "focus". I wouldn't really say the ability to give a correct answer would work too well as a description, because the idea of correctness could come from a lot of different functions, so ni's contribution to it doesn't really make it too different from it's other cognitive cousins. Though, I see your point and I can agree about it when it comes to it's future focused use, but I think what confuses people the most is the lack of knowledge towards how many variety of ways it shows itself.


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## Handsome Dyke (Oct 4, 2012)

Turi said:


> Can you name a type who doesn't search for any kind of underlying meaning?
> I feel this descriptor of Ni is a cop-out.
> 
> I can't think of a soul I've met, in my entire life, who would agree to to "I do not see patterns anywhere. I do not search for meanings".


You apparently still do not grasp the concept of cognitive *preferences*.


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## Turi (May 9, 2017)

Anon Pervathon said:


> You apparently still do not grasp the concept of cognitive *preferences*.


Name a type who _prefers_ not to see patterns and not to search for any underlying meanings.


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## Reila (Jan 17, 2017)

I was thinking about how to describe Ni on my way back home. The best word I found to describe it is ramification. At first, I attempted to compare it to a spider web of sorts, but in hindsight, that fits Ne better than Ni. Anyways, I am an INFJ, so I use Ni as my main function. It is constantly in use. Can't stop, won't stop (even if I wish it would at times). 

Ni is looking to an object or thinking about a concept, an idea and experiencing it branch into many directions. It is trying to explore the new concepts branched from the original idea and not knowing which one to pick, which is the best one? What can I do with this? It is getting lost into a single line of thought for perhaps too long.

Here is an example: On my way back home (I made a two hours trip to another city yesterday and came back home roughly half an hour ago), I saw a sheep. At no moment I was converned about how it feels to touch the sheep, or how I could use the sheep in practical ways (like kill and eat it, take it home and make it my pet, etc). When I looked at the sheep, I was concerned about the concept of a sheep, not the actual sheep, standing there, eating grass.

When the concept "sheep" came to mind, I wondered a lot of pointless things about it. From how strange the concept of a sheep is, if you think about it, to why people call a sheep "sheep" and not, I don't know, "bread", to how I could use a sheep into my stories and projects (and let me tell you, I spent a good thirty minutes trying to fit a "sheep" into my main project).

Unlike Ne users, I wasn't looking for or noticing a lot of concepts and ideas. I saw one thing and I focused on it, obsessed over it. That single concept branched, ramified into many other ideas. On the same trip I mentioned, I also saw a house, very isolated in the middle of nowhere. Oh boy, seeing that house was like throwing meat into clan of hyenas and watching they go crazy over it. 

Ni, for me, feels like pure and wild creation, raw creative and imaginative power. It needs to cultivated, refined. It needs to use Se for it to grow and at least for me, letting your Fe use Ni is wonderful. Ni is beautiful, but it is tiring. Oh, is it ever tiring. It only stops when I am sleeping, if it stops (considering how absurd my dreams are, maybe Ni is working even in my sleep).

This is Introverted Intuition for me. The fact I can understand it and notice it happening in my mind is why I have no doubts I am a Ni-dom. I can't do the same for other dominant functions. Trying to understand a concept like Fi, for me, it is like trying to solve a jigsaw puzzles without all the necessary pieces. The concept makes some sense, but the application? It is so mysterious.

Is this better, @Sensational ?


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## Gossip Goat (Nov 19, 2013)

Xcopy said:


> I can agree.. Though I believe the word choice usage you were looking for isn't necessarily tunnel vision, but more or less tunnel "focus". I wouldn't really say the ability to give a correct answer would work too well as a description, because the idea of correctness could come from a lot of different functions, so ni's contribution to it doesn't really make it too different from it's other cognitive cousins. Though, I see your point and I can agree about it when it comes to it's future focused use, but I think what confuses people the most is the lack of knowledge towards how many variety of ways it shows itself.


We're in agreement, I don't think it's about giving the correct answer. When I mentioned convergent thinking that's the definition associated to it (and Ni), but I didn't agree with it. And yeah, maybe focus is a better choice in words.


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## charlie.elliot (Jan 22, 2014)

Turi said:


> Name a type who _prefers_ not to see patterns and not to search for any underlying meanings.


For some people, it just doesn't occur to them to do that (that's what I see personality as-- what occurs to you to do, what seems to be the thing to do-- if that makes sense). Maybe you should really be curious about Se instead-- really getting inside the mind of an Se-user. Maybe if you understood more about how they work, you would find the answers you're seeking. 
I can't really speak for Se users but maybe if they could describe what their every day life is like it would answer the question "why would you not search for underlying meanings?"-- not because they are not capable of doing that, but because it may not occur to them because they're busy with the present moment. (And actually learning how to Se is a beautiful thing-- learning how to focus on the present and not sink down into the hidden meaning-- you actually end up with surprising wisdom, and much more effectiveness).


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## Turi (May 9, 2017)

Reila Nimu said:


> I was thinking about how to describe Ni on my way back home. The best word I found to describe it is ramification. At first, I attempted to compare it to a spider web of sorts, but in hindsight, that fits Ne better than Ni. Anyways, I am an INFJ, so I use Ni as my main function. It is constantly in use. Can't stop, won't stop (even if I wish it would at times).
> 
> Ni is looking to an object or thinking about a concept, an idea and experiencing it branch into many directions. It is trying to explore the new concepts branched from the original idea and not knowing which one to pick, which is the best one? What can I do with this? It is getting lost into a single line of thought for perhaps too long.
> 
> ...


You have beautifully described the Si-Ne axis.

One thing I'd like to add is that on top of this - when someone is immersing themselves in their own subjective impressions of an object (Si) and exploring the possibilities that stem from that (Ne), they by default, are focusing more on themselves than on the outer world.

Does this not sound like how people describe inferior Se?

It's not. It's all Si-Ne.

Don't for a second think I'm questioning your type at all, I just don't think you've recognised what is Ni within yourself, and your post is too good to let go to waste as an example of Si.


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## Reila (Jan 17, 2017)

Turi said:


> You have beautifully described the Si-Ne axis.
> 
> One thing I'd like to add is that on top of this - when someone is immersing themselves in their own subjective impressions of an object (Si) and exploring the possibilities that stem from that (Ne), they by default, are focusing more on themselves than on the outer world.
> 
> ...


I wonder. That doesn't seem like Ne at all for me, but perhaps I didn't fully grasp the concept of Ne yet. It hasn't been long since I figured out my type, so it wouldn't be a stretch to say I didn't fully recognize Ni within my mind yet.

You are free to question my type, although I think it is an exercise in futility, at this point.


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## Turi (May 9, 2017)

Reila Nimu said:


> I wonder. That doesn't seem like Ne at all for me, but perhaps I didn't fully grasp the concept of Ne yet. It hasn't been long since I figured out my type, so it wouldn't be a stretch to say I didn't fully recognize Ni within my mind yet.
> 
> You are free to question my type, although I think it is an exercise in futility, at this point.


Oh, it's Si-Ne alright.
You've unknowingly provided a really good example of that axis.

I definitely don't want to question your type, I'm happy to camp out and see what happens with regards to how you describe your Ni, when you recognise it.


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## AllyKat (Jan 24, 2014)

Turi said:


> Don't for a second think I'm questioning your type at all, I just don't think you've recognised what is Ni within yourself, and your post is too good to let go to waste as an example of Si.


For clarification, why do you think this is specifically Si? Because it has some personal subjectivity to it? How would you define Ni and Si in contrast to each other?


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## Reila (Jan 17, 2017)

Turi said:


> Oh, it's Si-Ne alright.
> You've unknowingly provided a really good example of that axis.
> 
> I definitely don't want to question your type, I'm happy to camp out and see what happens with regards to how you describe your Ni, when you recognise it.


Could it be because I focused on physical things (sheep, house) when describing "Ni"? Help me understand. What would have been your conclusion if I had used abstract examples, such as soul, love, etc?

Ah, how unfortunate.


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## Xcopy (Dec 10, 2016)

Gossip Ghoul said:


> We're in agreement, I don't think it's about giving the correct answer. When I mentioned convergent thinking that's the definition associated to it (and Ni), but I didn't agree with it. And yeah, maybe focus is a better choice in words.


Oh no, I didn't think we were in disagreement, just wanted to point out that focus thing. Convergent is a good word, I believe for it.


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## Turi (May 9, 2017)

kyrin said:


> Okay.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I haven't got time to explain because I have to go to work and try to sell people things over the phone for a few hours, but what you're describing is Ti.

It hasn't touched on Ni at all.


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## MusiCago (Jan 3, 2017)

Sensational said:


> Yes the point is though I am willing to consider I could not be an Se dom. By gathering various descriptions of people types in various spectrums though I do think can be beneficial to drawing conclusions. Whether I am an Se dom or not is more irrelevant. As to having a bunch of people who self type of the same type actually observe interpretation directly next to each other. I do believe the relevance is in comparison and contrast and similarities to help gain insight. (This right here could also be used as an example of how I view Ti use as far as categorizing for analysis). But exactly who am I alone to say it right hence looking for other interpretations of functions to compare and contrast. Maybe I am not Se or Ti but actually being willing to throw my interpretations of their use out there and put it up for debate to examine was more the point.
> 
> If for example 4/10 people typed as Ni dom/aux are wrong and using circular reasoning to draw their conclusions wouldn't it make sense for them to at least see 6/10 people explaining
> 
> ...


AHH I see! Thank you for the clarification  I believe this video should help, as well as this test. As far as how I know I'm an Ni Dom, I basically just use the scientific method of "I know I'm an introvert, I know I use introverted perceiving and extraverted judging because I definitely lead with a perceiving function (I know because the video I linked explains leading with a perceiving or a judging function very well and I know percepting comes first), and I know I prefer Ni/Se over Si/Ne." The hard part for me was figuring out Fe/Ti or or Te/Fi, but I read about the descriptions and they helped a lot, as well as the video I linked above ^^ I hope I could help a bit


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## MusiCago (Jan 3, 2017)

SpaceMan said:


> I suppose the statistics you find regarding MBTI types (whether valid or invalid) have some say in this, along with the large influx of self-proclaimed Ni-users on the web. Of course, this concerns N types in general.
> 
> And you're right, since according to your logic no one can know anything. But that doesn't sound like a fair way to dismiss questioning, though.


There's too many factors included to prove that majority of self proclaimed Ni users are mistyped. I read somewhere that INFJs are the most likely type to be interested in Jung Typology, and this is because the contemplative nature of cognitive functions, personality types, and attempting to understand people/humanities in an organized and logical way all greatly appeals to introverted intuition, extroverted feeling, and introverted thinking. Michael Pierce talked about this as well (hes a Jung Typology genius in my experience). Of course questioning people is always appropriate - because according to type statistics, Ni users are supposed to be the most "rare" (I'm quoting this because "rare", in typology terms, means that 1 in 100 people are INFJs, which really isn't _that_ rare imo). Who knows? Maybe all the xNxJs are just hidden behind their technology, on the internet/on here, and that's why it's so hard to find another xNxJ irl.

I go to a highschool of roughly 2000 people maybe, and I've met maybe 8 other INFJs there that I _know_ are INFJs;
(3/4ths of my English teachers are INFJs). It seems like finding a fellow INFJ is impossible in the open world, but go online and it's the complete opposite; you'll have a harder time finding an ESxP than an INFJ online. My point is that type statistics aren't perfect representations of how common certain types are, and I think new samples from many different sources/websites and environements/places (online and not online) are needed to definitely prove xNxJs are the "rarest" types, because I "have a feeling" type statistics are more equal than we think. 

I got kinda off topic from the main thread here, apologies lol.


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## incision (May 23, 2010)

Turi said:


> I haven't got time to explain because I have to go to work and try to sell people things over the phone for a few hours, but what you're describing is Ti.
> 
> It hasn't touched on Ni at all.


You keep telling people what Ni isn't but you've yet to tell people what Ni is or more accurately, your subjective perception of what Ni is. Even more humorous is that you type as an INTP while stating that you might be a Ni dom.


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## Mez (May 3, 2017)

Turi said:


> I haven't got time to explain because I have to go to work and try to sell people things over the phone for a few hours, but what you're describing is Ti.
> 
> It hasn't touched on Ni at all.


Would you disagree with the following?



> Ni gathers data from different abstract perspectives, trying to see something from many angles in order to accurately predict what might happen. This resembles Ti to some extent because it is also holistic in nature in terms of wanting to understand the bigger picture and it also wants to understand future effects. But Ni is a perceiving function so it is deeper and more sprawling and connects many different kinds of abstract relationships, not just cause-effect ones (e.g. metaphorical, symbolic, qualitative, logical, correlational, interpersonal, etc). Ti is a judging function so it connects concepts directly and efficiently by ruthlessly excising “irrelevant” information, whereas Ni takes in as much information as possible and links it to one’s knowledge in any way possible. Ni hoards all information, whereas Ti wants to take a knife to it once it is collected through the perceiving functions. Ti sees the world like a machine, with many different parts working together, but the parts are clearly separate and understood separately and then put back together into a closed system - anything unrelated to the “system” is cut away and dismissed. Ni sees the world like a network, but the parts are not clearly defined and not necessarily logically connected. So Ni needs a judging function to help it understand those connections more clearly. Ni needs Te to systematize itself.
> 
> INTJs use Te to make sense of Ni’s data in accordance with objective rules and principles, so *Ni+Te can easily be mistaken for Ti*. But Te has an outward focus and is action-oriented. Ni makes INTJs want to understand the world and Te makes them want to act on that knowledge either to realize potential or act in accordance with the future potential that they see. Ti is not as action-oriented. It focuses on discovering immediate effects rather than long range future potential unless it has another function like Ne or Ni to assist it, so Ti is much more limited and simplistic in what it can see compared to Ni+Te because Ni has a broader and deeper scope.


Based on the above, I fit under Ni far more than under Ti.


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## Turi (May 9, 2017)

MusiCago said:


> There's too many factors included to prove that majority of self proclaimed Ni users are mistyped. I read somewhere that INFJs are the most likely type to be interested in Jung Typology, and this is because the contemplative nature of cognitive functions, personality types, and attempting to understand people/humanities in an organized and logical way all greatly appeals to introverted intuition, extroverted feeling, and introverted thinking. Michael Pierce talked about this as well (hes a Jung Typology genius in my experience). Of course questioning people is always appropriate - because according to type statistics, Ni users are supposed to be the most "rare" (I'm quoting this because "rare", in typology terms, means that 1 in 100 people are INFJs, which really isn't _that_ rare imo). Who knows? Maybe all the xNxJs are just hidden behind their technology, on the internet/on here, and that's why it's so hard to find another xNxJ irl.
> 
> I go to a highschool of roughly 3000 people, and I've met maybe 8 other INFJs there that I _know_ are INFJs;
> (3/4ths of my English teachers are INFJs). It seems like finding a fellow INFJ is impossible in the open world, but go online and it's the complete opposite; you'll have a harder time finding an ESxP than an INFJ online. My point is that type statistics aren't perfect representations of how common certain types are, and I think new samples from many different sources/websites and environements/places (online and not online) are needed to definitely prove xNxJs are the "rarest" types, because I "have a feeling" type statistics are more equal than we think.
> ...


INFJs are 2.8% of the population according to the official MBTI website.

With INTJs it's like 7% of he population are "Ni doms".


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## Mez (May 3, 2017)

Duo said:


> You keep telling people what Ni isn't but you've yet to tell people what Ni is or more accurately, your subjective perception of what Ni is. Even more humorous is that you type as an INTP while stating that you might be a Ni dom.


The difference between INTP and INTJ isn't as clearcut as Turi attempts to claim it to be. The problem here is that you can't simply take a knife, cut one function out of a person's psyche, and expect it to perform the same way across all types. If this would be possible to do, you would never be hearing of questions such as "Am I an INTP or am I an INTJ?" which is in fact one of the most frequent questions asked in relation to MBTI and Socionics. And as I remember reading some papers on this subject, even the authors of those papers admitted they weren't entirely sure if they're INTJ (Ni-dom) or INTP (Ti-dom).

Hence the description I found and quoted over here, gives some clarity on the subject, and I can actually relate this very well to some of my real-life friends who tend to test as INTPs. The "ruthless knife attitude" in them is absolutely obvious and even leads to conflicts in my conversations with them.


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## incision (May 23, 2010)

kyrin said:


> The difference between INTP and INTJ isn't as clearcut as Turi attempts to claim it to be. The problem here is that you can't simply take a knife, cut one function out of a person's psyche, and expect it to perform the same way across all types. If this would be possible to do, you would never be hearing of questions such as "Am I an INTP or am I an INTJ?" which is in fact one of the most frequent questions asked in relation to MBTI and Socionics. And as I remember reading some papers on this subject, even the authors of those papers admitted they weren't entirely sure if they're INTJ (Ni-dom) or INTP (Ti-dom).
> 
> Hence the description I found and quoted over here, gives some clarity on the subject, and I can actually relate this very well to some of my real-life friends who tend to test as INTPs. The "ruthless knife attitude" in them is absolutely obvious and even leads to conflicts in my conversations with them.


No offense but I don't wish to go down this tangential rabbit hole, hence thread jack. I'd like to hear Turi's definition of what he subjectively perceives Ni to be, especially since he's ignored requests to do so or made an excuse why he couldn't (busy) but has time to read and respond to MusiCago's post.


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## Mez (May 3, 2017)

Duo said:


> No offense but I don't wish to go down this tangential rabbit hole, hence thread jack. I'd like to hear Turi's definition of what he subjectively perceives Ni to be, especially since he's ignored requests to do so or made an excuse why he couldn't (busy) but has time to read and respond to MusiCago's post.


 Aight fine by me.


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## incision (May 23, 2010)

kyrin said:


> Aight fine by me.


His behaviour in this thread strike me as social power games, rather than any interest in Ni as a cognitive function and how it might differ reliant on other functions within stackings and position in stacking. Hopefully, he'll prove me wrong on this but I'm not holding my breath on it.


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## Daiz (Jan 4, 2017)

Sensational said:


> I would think people confident in their type wouldn't be as offended by someone trying to weed out the difference


Just wanna say real quick that it can be really hard to stay confident in your type when you keep reading that there's a high chance you're wrong about it. You start to question yourself. "Could it be that these total strangers who know nothing about me really do know me better than I know myself? Is there some massive giveaway that I'm not INFJ that's visible to everyone else but I'm not aware of?" It makes you worry that your whole perception of yourself might be wrong. It's a bad feeling.


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## Mez (May 3, 2017)

Daiz said:


> Just wanna say real quick that it can be really hard to stay confident in your type when you keep reading that there's a high chance you're wrong about it. You start to question yourself. "Could it be that these total strangers who know nothing about me really do know me better than I know myself? Is there some massive giveaway that I'm not INFJ that's visible to everyone else but I'm not aware of?" It makes you worry that your whole perception of yourself might be wrong. It's a bad feeling.


For me the feeling is more equivalent to a sand-castle which you spent months building and are finally proud of, and then seeing it demolished by a random beach ball that was flung in your direction "just cause." 
Thereafter you spend several more months rebuilding the castle from ground up, and then another stray beach ball lands on it.
Repeat the process several times and you become a wreck yourself.


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## Daiz (Jan 4, 2017)

kyrin said:


> For me the feeling is more equivalent to a sand-castle which you spent months building and are finally proud of, and then seeing it demolished by a random beach ball that was flung in your direction "just cause."
> Thereafter you spend several more moths rebuilding the castle from ground up, and then another stray beach ball lands on it.
> Repeat the process several times and you become a wreck yourself.




I like your sandcastle; I think it's valid and great


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## Mez (May 3, 2017)

Daiz said:


> I like your sandcastle; I think it's valid and great


lol thanks


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## Xcopy (Dec 10, 2016)

I don't know if I can agree with a majority of the people here, because I think the more you look into and understand how the functions work, the more you gain confidence on what your true type is. It's important to be very genuine and true to your personality type, which is something I can admit took a long time for me to learn and figure out. When you walk into a room, what is the first thing you notice in the room or what appeals to you about that room? The emotional atmosphere? What the scene before you reminds you of? What you think about it? The meaning that can be taken from that room? Or the possibilities that could occur from being in that room? Maybe what you could accomplish in this room? Or how you feel about this room? 

It's not a difficult question when you forget about the functions and focus on how you would proceed. It's not about how many types exist and who's rare and who isn't. It's about discovering yourself, and having the confidence to say "This is me." Every type is special in their own way, and it's always good to know your strengths and your weaknesses to develop as a person.


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## Reila (Jan 17, 2017)

Xcopy said:


> I don't know if I can agree with a majority of the people here, because* I think the more you look into and understand how the functions work, the more you gain confidence on what your true type is.* It's important to be very genuine and true to your personality type, which is something I can admit took a long time for me to learn and figure out. When you walk into a room, what is the first thing you notice in the room or what appeals to you about that room? The emotional atmosphere? What the scene before you reminds you of? What you think about it? The meaning that can be taken from that room? Or the possibilities that could occur from being in that room? Maybe what you could accomplish in this room? Or how you feel about this room?
> 
> It's not a difficult question when you forget about the functions and focus on how you would proceed. It's not about how many types exist and who's rare and who isn't. It's about discovering yourself, and having the confidence to say "This is me." Every type is special in their own way, and it's always good to know your strengths and your weaknesses to develop as a person.


Precisely, but I don't think the majority of people here disagree with that.

The bold part in special really rings true to me. One eventually reaches a point where they know it is that type and not the others. Is everyone willing to put the effort and time to read and think until they figure out their type, though? Most likely not.

I do think thought, that people questioning your type for arbitrary reasons can get tiring.


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## Xcopy (Dec 10, 2016)

Reila Nimu said:


> Precisely, but I don't think the majority of people here disagree with that.
> 
> The bold part in special really rings true to me. One eventually reaches a point where they know it is that type and not the others. Is everyone willing to put the effort and time to read and think until they figure out their type, though? Most likely not.
> 
> I do think thought, that people questioning your type for arbitrary reasons can get tiring.


True, it can, but it can also push you towards trying to figure out if the person you're talking really knows the functions as well as you do or if you're the one making a mistake. You can be questioned your entire life, but ultimately, you know yourself the best. There are plenty of types you would like to be, but what type are you actually? Turi being an INFJ seemed strange to me, because he always had a need to question, understand, define, and figure out thing which all pointed towards Ti. ISTP made sense, INTP made more sense, but INFJ's I don't think use Ti to that much extent. Like how I wouldn't say I use Ni to the extent an INFJ would, it's more or less a toy for me, but not something I could say I rely on heavily. While I can make my own predictions, it's backed up with tons of observations and patterns. However, none of these functions are employed often if I don't feel like using them too much. Which makes me look like a slacker to some extent, so my inner feelings guide me first and foremost.


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## Reila (Jan 17, 2017)

Xcopy said:


> True, it can, but it can also push you towards trying to figure out if the person you're talking really knows the functions as well as you do or if you're the one making a mistake. You can be questioned your entire life, but ultimately, you know yourself the best. There are plenty of types you would like to be, but what type are you actually? Turi being an INFJ seemed strange to me, because he always had a need to question, understand, define, and figure out thing which all pointed towards Ti. ISTP made sense, INTP made more sense, but INFJ's I don't think use Ti to that much extent. Like how I wouldn't say I use Ni to the extent an INFJ would, it's more or less a toy for me, but not something I could say I rely on heavily. While I can make my own predictions, it's backed up with tons of observations and patterns. However, none of these functions are employed often if I don't feel like using them too much. Which makes me look like a slacker to some extent, so my inner feelings guide me first and foremost.


I can only speak for myself, but there is no type I would like to be other than mine. This isn't choosing a sports team to root for. If by any chance INFJ isn't my type, which again, I doubt because I did reach the point you mentioned in your previous post, I will gladly consider and perhaps change it to whatever else.

Still, not everyone is me, thankfully. While I welcome people questioning me, not everyone is going to enjoy being questioned over and over again. I think it is important to keep that mind. Take Turi as an example, people are using his change from INFJ to INTP as an example frequently, likely without considering what the user thinks about that. 

I have a guess he doesn't mind that, but who knows?


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## The red spirit (Sep 29, 2015)

kyrin said:


> For me the feeling is more equivalent to a sand-castle which you spent months building and are finally proud of, and then seeing it demolished by a random beach ball that was flung in your direction "just cause."
> Thereafter you spend several more months rebuilding the castle from ground up, and then another stray beach ball lands on it.
> Repeat the process several times and you become a wreck yourself.


I have been like that for 2 years. Nothing too bad.


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## star tripper (Sep 1, 2013)

Meh I know ESTPs clumsier than I am. I don't even consider myself particularly clumsy.

The point was supposed to be that I'm focused on the room but not on the ACTUAL room. It's awareness of surroundings, but not in the conventional sense.

Edit: I just realized the source of confusion! Ladies and gents, my username in fact does not refer to being the Queen of Tripping. Y'all are trippin'.


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## Mr Castelo (May 28, 2017)

star tripper said:


> Meh I know ESTPs clumsier than I am. I don't even consider myself particularly clumsy.
> 
> The point was supposed to be that I'm focused on the room but not on the ACTUAL room. It's awareness of surroundings, but not in the conventional sense.


My ESFP brother is clumsy as fuck, although for different reasons (he just seems to have poor motor coordination). So yes, I do believe that Sensors can be pretty clumsy too. I can see how Ne can be "awareness of surroundings", but conceptually, not physically.


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## incision (May 23, 2010)

Mr Castelovania said:


> My ESFP brother is clumsy as fuck, although for different reasons (he just seems to have poor motor coordination). So yes, I do believe that Sensors can be pretty clumsy too. I can see how Ne can be "awareness of surroundings", but conceptually, not physically.


As a generality, I find high Se types to have excellent large motor skills and reflexes but can be clumsy with small motor skills. High Si types aren't as good with large motor skills or reflexively but appear to be better at small motor skills. Ni doms lean more clumsy than Ne doms which would be logical considering how Ni is an introverted function and Ne, an extraverted function. For some reason, INFJs lean less coordinated than INTJs, even though I wouldn't generally classify INTJs as athletes.


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## The red spirit (Sep 29, 2015)

Reila Nimu said:


> I don't feel the need of expression my views in such a rude way like you do. :kitteh:


Rude? I didn't even try to be rude. I explained why it doesn't fit. I didn't even want to make any emotional impact.


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## The red spirit (Sep 29, 2015)

Duo said:


> As a generality, I find high Se types to have excellent large motor skills and reflexes but can be clumsy with small motor skills. High Si types aren't as good with large motor skills or reflexively but appear to be better at small motor skills. Ni doms lean more clumsy than Ne doms which would be logical considering how Ni is an introverted function and Ne, an extraverted function. For some reason, INFJs lean less coordinated than INTJs, even though I wouldn't generally classify INTJs as athletes.


Okay, since this became a topic I will share my 2p. I know ENFP, who is clumsy, unaware in many situations. His persona really compensates that a lot, but he probably just tries to hide his problem. Yet if he is in PE lesson, he is one of the best there. Especially in basketball. I sometimes go "...", when thinking about his awareness.


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## The red spirit (Sep 29, 2015)

star tripper said:


> Edit: I just realized the source of confusion! Ladies and gents, my username in fact does not refer to being the Queen of Tripping. Y'all are trippin'.


I thought it was about drugs tbh :laughing:


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## Xcopy (Dec 10, 2016)

The red spirit said:


> Is this even about the music stuff?


Basically, I pointed why you thought you were similar. I was similar to it as well, but there are subtle differences when you reverse the functions. Se-Ni doesn't work the same as Ni-Se does. 





> Depth? I dunno, but questions and reasoning is there most of the time.


True, but Te only explains what is necessary. That is why, I used the word "exact", it appears, serves it's point, and goes about it's way. It's more direct in general, while the Ti users spend a lot of time approaching specific topics from various angles. Ti and Te both want to get things done, but Ti users seek to understand, hence the questioning. Both Te and Ti users ask questions, but the questions they ask are not the same. 





> What about auxes of both?


I am not sure, but do you mean to ask me about Ne and Se aux




> *Maybe because 90% of people in the same room would see something moving?*Please, not mix up the natural instincts of humans with typology. They exist. Also spatial awareness imo should have nothing to do with typology.


That has little relation with what I am talking about. I would have to accuse you of mixing the two up here. See, I was never pointing out that people don't have spatial awareness because of "functions". Instead, I pointed out, that there is a *preference* that every person has for when they enter a room. Noticing people is a thing, yes. However, what you notice and what you do upon noticing are completely different.


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## Xcopy (Dec 10, 2016)

star tripper said:


> Meh I know ESTPs clumsier than I am. I don't even consider myself particularly clumsy.
> 
> The point was supposed to be that I'm focused on the room but not on the ACTUAL room. It's awareness of surroundings, but not in the conventional sense.
> 
> Edit: I just realized the source of confusion! Ladies and gents, my username in fact does not refer to being the Queen of Tripping. Y'all are trippin'.


Or that you were a giant whom tripped upon a star and floated into space.


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## star tripper (Sep 1, 2013)

The red spirit said:


> I thought it was about drugs tbh :laughing:





ReimuHakureix said:


> Or that you were a giant whom tripped upon a star and floated into space.


I believe whomst* is the proper English there, but these two tweets nailed it. I'm actually a giant named Lucy who tripped into the sky with diamonds. *Rihanna voice* Shine bright like a diamond, bitch.


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## The red spirit (Sep 29, 2015)

ReimuHakureix said:


> I am not sure, but do you mean to ask me about Ne and Se aux


Yes, sensei


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## Turi (May 9, 2017)

Mr Castelovania said:


> I think you're being way too much defensive for such a simple question. I don't believe that @Duo would act illogically and bait you into a personal attack or whatever, I suppose she's as curious about your opinion as me. I believe that what I asked was fair, but if you don't want to respond, that's fine.
> 
> I honestly don't know what are your intentions anymore.


Not being defensive at all.

I figured it was obvious.

Consider the post @Duo made as "the object".
Does it make sense, now?

My post wasn't actually targeted at Duo in any way, couldn't really care less about getting into that - what it was, is an example of how Ni-Se works.

All I did, was take the information given to me (the object) and view it from multiple angles, imagining various possibilities in a holistic manner - then these imaginations shift into "knowing" - which is where I've jumped to conclusions.

I mentally toyed with _the object_, wondering what's the point of responding the way she wants (from my point of view), how would she receive anything I said (her point of view), diving further than what is literally observed in_ the object_, searching for 'hidden meanings', as Duo herself put it - the way in which Ni actually comes to any kind of answer, is by connecting the dots - it looks past the information given to it (it doesn't trust it) and seeks to develop it's own subjective interpretation/reality of what the Se information it receives means.

The dots connected and Ni in my example, offered a potential insight into who Duo is as a person (not "for real", the whole post was a hypothetical) by connecting the dots it received via Se - of course, this judgement/assumption is actually made by a judging function (Te in this example) working with Ni-Se.
I'm sure I don't need to explain why the judging function is Te here.

Of course, there is also the inclusion of Duo's dominant function Te in my response as well, this was an indirect reference to how Ni will _still _utilise Se information (it says ENTJ under her name) even if that Se information was on the outskirts.. kind of like peripheral vision - the information is there, but I'm not focused on it, however it weaves it's way into the Ni dominants inner understandings of the outside world regardless.

I figured all of the above would be super obvious. It wasn't even an actual response to Duo.
I just used her post to create an example of Ni. 
I assumed Ni dominants would see it and just immediately connect the dots.




I find it difficult to comprehend how not everyone works this way, though, because as I see it - the way Ni descriptors all about the internet make Ni out to be, is simply human nature to me. It's normal. How is this not how everybody functions.
My own understanding of Ni might not be precisely aligned with how other people view Ni, but I don't care, it's still the same deal - _how is this not how every human works_, how is this not the dominant function of everyone on the planet.

This is why I hesitate to accept being an Ni dominant (even though all the tests point that way, official, cognitive functions tests, my own research etc..) because I have _*got *_to be missing something.

I find it difficult to accept that this just isn't 'normal'.

@kyrin posted up a copy-paste from somewhere explaining how dominant Ni works, and scored how well they resonate.
I see this and I think, well fucking duh, everyone is 10/10 for all of that.
How is this not normal.
It's a bit like asking how well someone relates to breathing - 10/10, very well, definitely how I work. Lol.

I'm either missing something with regards to how Ni-Se works that will make me realise "_oh hey! that's not me at all, cool, now I can separate Ni from simply existing_" or I'm so far Ni dominant it's almost hard to believe, completely immersed in my own world of entirely subjective understandings, from which I project how it is for me onto others, as if it's all a fact and is a shared reality.


This is partly why I keep hounding people to actually describe their Ni - I want to see something that's not just "human" to me.
Not some copy-paste shit either. 
I want to find the missing piece (if there is one).


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## The red spirit (Sep 29, 2015)

@Turi So you won't explain Ni to us? Example isn't an explanation.


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## Xcopy (Dec 10, 2016)

The red spirit said:


> Yes, sensei


Well, I wouldn't call myself a sensei, but Ne aux is going to be difficult to explain it's manifestation for someone like me, but Se aux I can explain for myself. So I walk into a store, and the first thing that hits me is the lights, the colors, the smells, the people. However, it doesn't enamor me for too long, because I didn't come into a store just to experience the sensations of what being in the store is like, and I also don't end up spending nearly as much as a Se-dom would because it's guided by what I felt like eating. I already know what I came into the store for. Se isn't at it's purest for me, it's initially guided by my Fi. My likeliness to try everything in general is dependent more on how I feel about it.There's some guidance to my Se, due to it being a backseat function. I pick up on things from observing things, but naturally I'm more focused on how it affects me or is related to me directly, and rather those experiences mess with my own individual morale code. 

So from what I noticed about a Ne-aux, is how it's usually done to help them gain more understanding towards others despite having their own strong feelings towards certain subjects or people. INFP's I've dealt with are far more serious about the issues they care about than ENFP's, at least in their approach and are highly opinionated, but while they can be understanding, due to being able to look outside of themselves and accept possibilities, they're going to stick to their own feelings unless they can relate to said person in some ways. I believe, ENFP's on the otherhand don't take as much seriously, because they already know there's more than one side to every issue, and while they have their own moral code/feelings about it, I would not believe they would be quick to judge. an issue/person by their feelings compared to an INFP. 

This is why, I was so focused on the function stack, because noticing what function a person has is not enough, because depending on where it is, it shows up in different ways. Like, how an ENTP's Ne-Ti, to me, gives them more of a humorous approach to articulating their thoughts, than an INTP's Ti-Ne approach. Both can be funny, but the INTP comes off as much calmer and more subdued.


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## The red spirit (Sep 29, 2015)

ReimuHakureix said:


> Well, I wouldn't call myself a sensei


It can also mean a respectable person. In this case you are sharing knowledge with me, so you are some sort of teacher and I find that being respectable. So why not call you like that now? Anyway I did it just because it doesn't sound as just bland yes + some connecting dots about anime and stuff.



ReimuHakureix said:


> So I walk into a store, and the first thing that hits me is the lights, the colors, the smells, the people. However, it doesn't enamor me for too long, because I didn't come into a store just to experience the sensations of what being in the store is like


If you aren't first time in that store, then wouldn't majority of us just skimming trough everything and picking up, what one needs?



ReimuHakureix said:


> and I also don't end up spending nearly as much as a Se-dom would because it's guided by what I felt like eating.


Honestly, ESFPs have higher Te than ISFP, so excessive spending is questionable. Or maybe you meant, that Se doms walk into store sees cool product and decides to buy it, sometimes forgetting even the main thing he/she was supposed to buy?



ReimuHakureix said:


> I already know what I came into the store for.


Vaguely like "I need soap" or concretely "I need this specific soap" or analytically on the spot "I need soap, so now I'm gonna look at what's available and I'm gonna take the best suited soap for my needs"?

Damn, I love store example, because despite being hermit myself I recently was into it. So it's relatable.



ReimuHakureix said:


> Se isn't at it's purest for me, it's initially guided by my Fi. My likeliness to try everything in general is dependent more on how I feel about it.


So do you expect Se dom to always be trying something new or cool he/she finds in the store?



ReimuHakureix said:


> There's some guidance to my Se, due to it being a backseat function. I pick up on things from observing things, but naturally I'm more focused on how it affects me or is related to me directly, and rather those experiences mess with my own individual morale code.


Fi-Se as I can see. Nice and I hope you re truly ISFP, just because this example for some reason sounds so cheesy, old and bit cringe-worthy. 

I probably found the worst time and place, but I would like to look at my situation in shop and how I shopped. Then from that try to type me. Not really type me, but just try to identify the functions.
Day 1:
I'm after school feeling exhausted and I want to buy something in the store to help me a bit. On my way to hone I decide, that magazine about cars and something tasty to drink, also maybe some snacks. So I finally came to store. I can say, that I had 15 euros with some "metal" (15 euros is just a little bit more than 15 US dollars; "metal" means coins). I went to the store and started looking for snacks and drink. I found snacks and picked up 2L bottle of fizzy drink (whatever looked the most interesting). Too bad I didn't have a bag to carry that stuff to cashier. My both hand were used and I decided, that I won't buy magazines. So I gave 5 euro banknote, got change (lots of "metal"). Put snacks into backpack and carried 2L bottle to home. Drank it all and ate all the stuff. 

Day 2 (after more than 1 day):
I'm after school feeling exhausted and I remember, that I still want those magazines. On my way I decide, that those alone are pretty boring, so I wanted yet another 2L bottle of another fizzy drink (damn only now I realize, that I drink like a mad lol). So I went to the store picked up that bottle (another drink) and came to magazine section. I found 3 magazines about cars and picked them all, even if that gets bit expensive. On top of that at that time and day 1 I was not very interested in cars, my mind was mostly about computer stuff. Went to pay and left 10 euro banknote, only got 30 cent change, so I spent a lot. Magazines to backpack and bottle in the hand. Came back to home. Drank it all and looked at them all (at magazines I only looked in my "free" time, when I was testing the old computer, so I had nothing better to do).

Summary (now). I think I spent a lot of random stuff, anyway I didn't really care much about this money. I'm still in high school and don't live on my own, so I can carelessly spend it like that, even if it sometimes "mentally hurts" to be such a big spender (those 2L bottles of drinks are actually cheap). Pretty much everywhere in this short story is Se, right? Also, I didn't spent the "metal" on anything and I have a little idea of how much money it is.



ReimuHakureix said:


> So from what I noticed about a Ne-aux, is how it's usually done to help them gain more understanding towards others despite having their own strong feelings towards certain subjects or people. INFP's I've dealt with are far more serious about the issues they care about than ENFP's, at least in their approach and are highly opinionated, but while they can be understanding, due to being able to look outside of themselves and accept possibilities, they're going to stick to their own feelings unless they can relate to said person in some ways. I believe, ENFP's on the other hand don't take as much seriously, because they already know there's more than one side to every issue, and while they have their own moral code/feelings about it, I would not believe they would be quick to judge. an issue/person by their feelings compared to an INFP.


Well, ok. I kinda expected Ne in aux example and some commentary on that, but I guess I don't have it, also you aren't confident in your knowledge about it. It's fine for me.



ReimuHakureix said:


> This is why, I was so focused on the function stack, because noticing what function a person has is not enough, because depending on where it is, it shows up in different ways. Like, how an ENTP's Ne-Ti, to me, gives them more of a humorous approach to articulating their thoughts, than an INTP's Ti-Ne approach. Both can be funny, but the INTP comes off as much calmer and more subdued.


That's because of Fe.


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## Xcopy (Dec 10, 2016)

The red spirit said:


> It can also mean a respectable person. In this case you are sharing knowledge with me, so you are some sort of teacher and I find that being respectable. So why not call you like that now? Anyway I did it just because it doesn't sound as just bland yes + some connecting dots about anime and stuff.


Oh no, I understood why you were saying it, I was just pointing out that me, in particular don't see myself as some wise teacher figure. Heh, oh look my bias is showing. 




> If you aren't first time in that store, then wouldn't majority of us just skimming trough everything and picking up, what one needs?


Yes, and how many of us also notice something that we hadn't seen before and then decided to pick it up because "Hey that's something new I haven't tried before." Now what function would be the most likely to be one of the first ones to go along with this line of thought? Se-dom. A chance to experience something different? Which would you think would pick this item up? A Se-dom, a Se-aux, or a Se-tert?




> Honestly, ESFPs have higher Te than ISFP, so excessive spending is questionable. Or maybe you meant, that Se doms walk into store sees cool product and decides to buy it, sometimes forgetting even the main thing he/she was supposed to buy?


More like walk in, grabs the item they were supposed to buy, and then notice even more items and then would proceed to purchase those items as well. ESFP's have higher Te sure, definitely higher than me, but it's still in service of Se. So it has some direction sure, but the direction accommodates Se.




> So do you expect Se dom to always be trying something new or cool he/she finds in the store?


I would doubt they would go to *one* store if they have the money for it. Keep in mind, they'll manage that money (maybe).




> Fi-Se as I can see. Nice and I hope you re truly ISFP, just because this example for some reason sounds so cheesy, old and bit cringe-worthy.


Oh Ti, I can always count on you to point out a use of a fact as "cringe-worthy" or "cheesy" for not being impersonal logic that makes sense to you alone.



> I probably found the worst time and place, but I would like to look at my situation in shop and how I shopped. Then from that try to type me. Not really type me, but just try to identify the functions.


Already this feels like a test/trap, but sure, I'll look it over. 



> Day 1:
> I'm after school feeling exhausted and I want to buy something in the store to help me a bit. On my way to hone I decide, that magazine about cars and something tasty to drink, also maybe some snacks. So I finally came to store. I can say, that I had 15 euros with some "metal" (15 euros is just a little bit more than 15 US dollars; "metal" means coins). I went to the store and started looking for snacks and drink. I found snacks and picked up 2L bottle of fizzy drink (*whatever looked the most interesting*). Too bad I didn't have a bag to carry that stuff to cashier. My both hand were used and I decided, that I won't buy magazines. So I gave 5 euro banknote, got change (lots of "metal"). Put snacks into backpack and carried 2L bottle to home. Drank it all and ate all the stuff.


You know what word stuck out to me here? The reason I put that in bold, was because of the word *interesting*. Interesting depends on what the person themselves find interesting, a subjective factor. I wouldn't purchase a drink because it looked interesting, because I choose drinks based on how they taste sure, but before that I'm checking on if they're healthy for me. "This can of soda has more sugar in it than the bottle of soda does." I'm looking at the numbers and making a decision based on that, the facts (Te) I don't really care about interesting. Is it good for me? No, okay no more of that. Soda is now gone out of my life and I'm not going to go back to it because it's not good for me and would cause problems for me further down the line. However, yes, there is Se here, but there always seems to be some kind of logic that it has to go through for you, as if it's filtering the Se from going too overboard. 






> Day 2 (after more than 1 day):
> I'm after school feeling exhausted and I remember, that I still want those magazines. On my way I decide, that *those alone are pretty boring,* so I wanted yet another 2L bottle of another fizzy drink (damn only now I realize, that I drink like a mad lol). So I went to the store picked up that bottle (another drink) and came to magazine section. I found 3 magazines about cars and picked them all, even if that gets bit expensive. On top of that at that time and day 1 I was not very interested in cars, my mind was mostly about computer stuff. Went to pay and left 10 euro banknote, only got 30 cent change, so I spent a lot. Magazines to backpack and bottle in the hand. Came back to home. Drank it all and looked at them all (at magazines I only looked in my "free" time, when I was testing the old computer, so I had nothing better to do).
> 
> Summary (now). *I think I spent a lot of random stuff, anyway I didn't really care much about this money. I'm still in high school and don't live on my own, so I can carelessly spend it like that, even if it sometimes "mentally hurts" to be such a big spender (those 2L bottles of drinks are actually cheap).* Pretty much everywhere in this short story is Se, right? Also, I didn't spent the "metal" on anything and I have a little idea of how much money it is.


It's nice to see that even you can point it out without even much of my own assistance. Even I have moments where I'll see a new soda, and despite my feelings, I kind of want to try it because it's something I haven't tried before. Maybe I'll try it once, but then I'll stop it entirely because I don't drink soda anymore, but that was a new taste that I wanted to experience so I give it a pass. Did the same thing with alcohol. I don't drink alcohol, but I don't want to completely judge it without giving it a chance, so I'll do it every now and then. The windows of me giving a chance to something I don't agree with are hardly open. I'm strongly opposed to things that disagree with my own morals of what I believe is right or wrong, while your logic directs your Se to an extent. We both spend a lot of money on miscellaneous shit with little care for the money that was lost, but both of us realize it's not something we should be doing. I don't think Se-dom takes that small point at the end into consideration often, unless it's for something. 




> Well, ok. I kinda expected Ne in aux example and some commentary on that, but I guess I don't have it, also you aren't confident in your knowledge about it. It's fine for me.


Sorry about that, it's not something I've experienced personally. 




> That's because of Fe.


Yes, and which one do you think between ENTP and INTP has the extroverted function that would work more *with* Fe?


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## mistakenforstranger (Nov 11, 2012)

Man, this thread haha, but I think it helps to see examples of Ni to understand it.

This is what Ni is...






This is also Ni.






This is Ni (+ Fe).






This is Ni (+ Te).






This is Ni (+ Se).






You'll notice with all of these examples how Ni is opposed to Se. It's about seeing beyond reality and mere sensory experience (Se) (see Rollo May), transformation (see Clive Barker), and seeking to achieve higher states of consciousness or ideal modes of being (see Clive Barker/Colin Wilson). It's focused on the consequences (Ni) of our actions (Se), and how the circumstances of our present moment (Se) lead to the conditions of the future (Ni) (as seen in Rollo May). Whereas Ne as a state of mind is focused on possibility and potential, Ni is focused on inevitability and change through time (see Joseph Campbell) viewed through a very subjective lens of the individual person that notices universal patterns (or what Jung would say are archetypes; Also see Pi clip below) to explain the real (That is, normally "hidden") truth or essence (Jung: "inner processes") (Ni) of our experience (Se). 

Jung on Ni:



> Introverted intuition apprehends the images which arise from the a priori, i.e. the inherited foundations of the unconscious mind. These archetypes, whose innermost nature is inaccessible to experience, represent the precipitate of psychic functioning of the whole ancestral line, i.e. the heaped-up, or pooled, experiences of organic existence in general, a million times repeated, and condensed into types. Hence, in these archetypes all experiences are represented which since primeval time have happened on this planet. Their archetypal distinctness is the more marked, the more frequently and intensely they have been experienced. The archetype would be -- to borrow from Kant -- the noumenon of the image which intuition perceives and, in perceiving, creates.
> 
> *Since the unconscious is not just something that lies there, like a psychic caput mortuum, but is something that coexists and experiences inner transformations which are inherently related to general events, introverted intuition, through its perception of inner processes, gives certain data which may possess supreme importance for the comprehension of general occurrences*: it can even foresee new possibilities in more or less clear outline, as well as the event which later actually transpires. Its prophetic prevision is to be explained from its relation to the archetypes which represent the law-determined course of all experienceable things.


This is one of the most basic descriptions of Ni that I find sums it up best:Introverted iNtuiting - (Ni)



> Introverted iNtuiting involves synthesizing the seemingly paradoxical or contradictory, which takes understanding to a new level.
> 
> Using this process, we can have moments when completely new, unimagined realizations come to us.
> 
> ...


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## mistakenforstranger (Nov 11, 2012)

Just to add more on this since I couldn't post more than 5 videos at a time. This is Ni vs Ne. Darren Aronofsky's movies are Ni, and Pi is a good representation of unhealthy Ni in the main character:


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## Xcopy (Dec 10, 2016)

mistakenforstranger said:


> Just to add more on this since I couldn't post more than 5 videos at a time. This is Ni vs Ne. Darren Aronofsky's movies are Ni, and Pi is a good representation of unhealthy Ni in the main character:


I hate to say it, but Pi's approach fits mine when it comes to how I play fighting games.


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## Agent X (May 23, 2017)

Oh lord.. Thread is already devolving into ww4, let's add some more fuel to the fire shall we? Here are my "brief" experiences with typology of an Ni-dom + my thoughts + Ni examples, so I hope the following analogies make sense:

As per the one of the official definitions of Ni (for sensors/Ti-doms), Ni can be categorized as this:



> _"Introverted intuition is the instinctual drive to recall, organize and be aware of what you don’t know. It’s the need to look at what you are uncertain about, and what is too complex for you to currently understand. It is the need to formulate concepts, theories, and perspectives to draw meaning from this information. Insight comes from successfully being able to come up with a theory that solves what it is you have been wrestling"._


I do realise what I am regurgitating most of what has been already said, but it's more true because of this. Disclaimer: This is my attempt at putting an unconscious thought into awareness. The following two examples are my attempt at deconstructing it, and the third example is just the "raw" data.

Most of what the Ni-dom is thinking is something that he is unaware off. For instance, I could be thinking of the word frequency and wavelength, and associate it with a graph having both of these characteristics. Often I think of things in pictures (even now thinking about the word wavelength, I see a comical graph with an X and Y axis and an orange progression line in a cosine arc) Both words, seem interconnected to each other, no? Then I forget about these things for an X amount of time. Sometime down the proverbial track, when I am zoned out in an external environment, I could be feeling the sun's rays or something that has that definition (wavelength/frequency) and automatically think of the word. Then I associate it with I am experiencing with the five senses. Now during this and the next step (realization), something happens, perhaps a past memory, connecting it to another one, I am not sure which. Then the realization hits me, followed ALWAYS by a sense of certainty (Ni-doms, can you relate to this sentence). And that is how I know that is Ni working, rather than Si, everything I know about the word, is connected to what I just experienced.

A more "practical example". I am rather partial to the game of Town of Salem and am rather adept at finding who the mafioso/evil characters are. I do have a structured way to approach the game, however, as everything in this world is dynamic (interaction included), I focus on previous patters (which could be attributed to Si). So let's assume the mafioso player was using a rather common phrase as " <insert name here>, role, on night 1.> Automatically, that raises suspicion, as he could be a jester, veteran, or just a bad town investigator. The pattern begins, and then during the night we see who got killed. So naturally I don't pay much attention who got killed or not. I pay attention to things people don't notice (Se example). People who are quiet, talk too much, vote guilty on a confirmed town, things like that. Then at that point, once I am done doing my rounds, I tend to focus or zone out on a name. Then that name sometime down the track jumps at me. And then I automatically know that person is a mafia. When this happens 9/10 I am right, and the certainty accompanies that realization.

A more "fluid" example, relating to the above. Scenario is this: It's day 8, and there are 6 players left. 2 mafia, 3 town, 1 neutral role. As a Jailor, I have a contradictory evidence from a person who claims an investigative town role and a neutral role. Do I go for the neutral role to better my chances of town winning with me or do I question the suspect again. So then the thought hit me "Observe and reflect" (No joke, that was the exact thought). So then I was observing patterns and the chat log. The chat log indicated that two people were in "cahoots" with each other. Nothing surprising as a lot of people play the game together. But this is where it gets strange. I suspect (after reflecting on this), is the wording of how they were phrasing things triggered the insight: It hit me, those two are mafia, and they are setting me up, and this was accompanied again by a sense of certainty. What do you know? I got lynched within a few seconds after the insight hit me (I was town, mafia's objective is to kill the town, for those who are unfamiliar with the game). I would describe the above happening nearly instantaneously in advance before it happened 20 seconds later.

Another example. A friend of mine were talking about tuberculosis and the vaccination. I was zoned out, and my attention fixated on the word "tube". The insight hits me: Tuberculosis, as in the disease of the lung *tubes*.

Yet another example. In the "Guess Type based on profile picture" thread, I knew BranchMonkey was an INFJ. But I was rather discontent with just saying INFJ and leaving it. I automatically thought of why, and my attention was turned to the avatar. 

Then semi-consciously I wrote this: "Your avatar seems pretty INFJ to me. The tongue and the general face implies sensory stimuli - Se. But while looking at the face, there seems to be no malice or bad intent behind it, its almost like the face has a playful of humorous vibe to it, implying Fe. Seeing how I believe the avatar is based of Kali, the goddess of death, there is a mystical element involved, explaining Ni preference. The overall message I believe is "Do not fear the reaper, and live life to the fullest". Or something like that". Seems "odd" I know, but reflecting upon this, I felt like I was in some sort of mystical state. Full details can be found in this thread: 


* *




http://personalitycafe.com/member-p...e-picture-avatar-siggy-1054.html#post38605274




There is more I wanted to add to this, but I can't think of things further, need more sleep. I will add to this anecdote as I think of more things to add. Now I realise I am about to be heavily critisized for what I believe are examples of Ni, but I assure you, the above is 100% genuinely and accurately true. Perhaps some genius on this thread can find the connection between my examples and the Ni typology, all in the name of science of course. But while I am present, a few other things to ask:

@Sensational, what was the point in this thread? As the other thread "Ni and the subconscious" explored, Ni can't be described, as its unconscious. 

@Turi, for the love of God, stop typing yourself as an Ni-dom. You are VERY clearly a Ti-dom or aux.
@HallowedHydraNess, I believe this thread might interest you.


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## Turi (May 9, 2017)

Agent X said:


> @Turi, for the love of God, stop typing yourself as an Ni-dom. You are VERY clearly a Ti-dom or aux.


You familiar with the John Beebe model?


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

Agent X said:


> @Sensational, what was the point in this thread? As the other thread "Ni and the subconscious" explored, Ni can't be described, as its unconscious.


1. That was in another section. I did not make the thread for myself I was making it as frame of reference for this section based off many other debates in other threads in this section which were simultaneously happening.

2. I would think the redundancy in this thread which I was mentioned by Ni doms just to ask what the point of this thread was, could be compared to the redundancy Ni doms view the topic.


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## spaceynyc (Feb 18, 2017)

Sensational said:


> I apologize now for any INFJ casualties (I am totally serious) my lack of Ni did not predict that backlash while baiting the issue to get an actual exhibit displayed.


My Ni told me from the thread title alone that you made this thread ready for war. This was your subconscious inferior Ni motive. You don’t even realize it lol. But us Ni dominants do  and that’s why they’re getting “butthurt”

I refuse to engage because I see what’s going on. I will take the role of observer as I always do


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## Agent X (May 23, 2017)

spaceynyc said:


> My Ni tells me you made this thread ready for war. This was your subconscious inferior Ni motive. You don’t even realize it lol. But us Ni dominants do


That was my opening sentence! "Oh lord.. Thread is already devolving into ww4, let's add some more fuel to the fire shall we?"


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## spaceynyc (Feb 18, 2017)

This thread is basically subjective Ti logic going to toe with irrational Ni perception. OP will never be convinced until it makes sense to her subjective logic that we are indeed Ni users. Good luck everyone, this thread will never end

PS I believe the Ni users here are indeed Ni users. I can see it


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## Turi (May 9, 2017)

spaceynyc said:


> My Ni told me from the thread title alone that you made this thread ready for war. This was your subconscious inferior Ni motive. You don’t even realize it lol. But us Ni dominants do  and that’s why they’re getting “butthurt”
> 
> I refuse to engage because I see what’s going on. I will take the role of observer as I always do


This thread is not unique not intended to start a war.
The OP made numerous similar threads to this.
This wasn't even the first one.


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## spaceynyc (Feb 18, 2017)

Turi said:


> This thread is not unique not intended to start a war.
> The OP made numerous similar threads to this.
> This wasn't even the first one.


Could be multiple wars.


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## Agent X (May 23, 2017)

spaceynyc said:


> Could be multiple wars.


Multiple wars of multiple perspectives. This is going to be a repeat of the "Ni and the subconscious mind thread" already, I can tell.


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## Turi (May 9, 2017)

spaceynyc said:


> Could be multiple wars.


Doubt it.


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## charlie.elliot (Jan 22, 2014)

Turi said:


> You familiar with the John Beebe model?


Honestly, the level of confusion you've experienced since learning about MBTI could only come from a Ti-dom, it seems to me... You know more about the theory than any of us, always citing different sources (a very Ti thing to do), but still can't come to a definitive conclusion about what your type is. If that isn't xxTP than I don't know what is. 

Plus you're always saying how much you love questioning others, and it seems you're trying to glean information from other peoples' experiences. That seems like extroverted perceiving to me-- Ne or Se. One unhealthy aspect of Ni, I think, is that we often fail to really question others, assuming that our intuition is always correct and it will tell us all we need to know. We zero in on the conclusion (there's a reason Ni-doms are J types...) and have a hard time considering other options. 

just for reference,


> Introverted Thinkers develop complex systems and models in their heads. These models explain how things work. Whenever a dominant Ti comes across new information, they test it against their internal models to see if it fits. If it does, they store the new information in the correct category. If it does not fit, but they think it still might be correct information, they will completely re-evaluate their mental model to understand why it does not accommodate the new information.
> 
> People with dominant Ti tend to use precise language, and they dislike it if you use words and terminology incorrectly.
> 
> ...


(I decided to exercise Ti for the occasion by bringing in an actual source...)

I think the heart and soul of Ni is zeroing in on the heart of the matter. It's like when you have a sauce cooking on the stove and you let all the excess water burn off until you just have the good stuff. Judgers like to* reduce*, perceivers like to *add more*. We take a whole bank of sensory perception and put our Judging powers to distill is down to the essence, the central concept that explains everything.
We think that if we can pinpoint a central concept around which everything evolves, we'll unlock the secret of the universe, and we'll be able to understand everything else right away -- because everything flows from and is explained by that central concept. 

That's why it's hard for us to change our minds about anything -- once we've found that central concept about something, it's almost impossible to consider than it could be wrong. 
The only way that it could be wrong is if a large chunk of the initial sensory input was wrong (which is quite possible)-- or if we have some deeply ingrained unconscious biases that were throwing it all off (even more possible). 

That's also why we have a (mistaken) reputation for being psychics or fortune-tellers-- because once you see the central concept, you can see the way it branches out and connects to everything else in the universe, so its not hard to intuit what might happen in the future. 

I think you keep seeing Ni for the "outer trappings"-- looking for meaning, patterns, etc.-- but I don't see evidence that you're experiencing the actual essence of Ni, that is sinking down to the level of the central concept which will then explain the universe. You're far too skeptical and questioning. I've always thought you were an ISTP, tbh-- when I read your initial post when you were typed as ISTP, it all seemed to fit into place. But INTP fit as well. Maybe you're mistaking Ni for your Ne?


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## The red spirit (Sep 29, 2015)

ReimuHakureix said:


> Oh no, I understood why you were saying it, I was just pointing out that me, in particular don't see myself as some wise teacher figure. Heh, oh look my bias is showing.


Maybe I shouldn't have said that so randomly. 



ReimuHakureix said:


> Yes, and how many of us also notice something that we hadn't seen before and then decided to pick it up because "Hey that's something new I haven't tried before." Now what function would be the most likely to be one of the first ones to go along with this line of thought? Se-dom. A chance to experience something different? Which would you think would pick this item up? A Se-dom, a Se-aux, or a Se-tert?


Doms probably, but depends on the individual. Also I would give a shot and add Ne doms, because who the hell knows, what happens in their heads?



ReimuHakureix said:


> More like walk in, grabs the item they were supposed to buy, and then notice even more items and then would proceed to purchase those items as well. ESFP's have higher Te sure, definitely higher than me, but it's still in service of Se. So it has some direction sure, but the direction accommodates Se.


Guilty of this too.



ReimuHakureix said:


> I would doubt they would go to *one* store if they have the money for it. Keep in mind, they'll manage that money (maybe).


I wouldn't have too bad opinion about them. Member Dora was pretty much normal ESFP, if she typed herself correctly. To me mall is just way too far and I don't have any transport, besides public transport.



ReimuHakureix said:


> Oh Ti, I can always count on you to point out a use of a fact as "cringe-worthy" or "cheesy" for not being impersonal logic that makes sense to you alone.


It's just that when people explain their inner workings and assign to one type, they instantly become questionable for me. Maybe because they are often just trying to make an impression. Just doesn't look too good.



ReimuHakureix said:


> Already this feels like a test/trap, but sure, I'll look it over.


Trap or test? Nah, if you knew me, then I'm just the idiot, who disagrees with many typings and keeps searching for his true type. In the end I pretty much can't do it. There is always inner voice saying, that something is off. So it's not a test, just you met a fool.



ReimuHakureix said:


> You know what word stuck out to me here? The reason I put that in bold, was because of the word *interesting*. Interesting depends on what the person themselves find interesting, a subjective factor. I wouldn't purchase a drink because it looked interesting, because I choose drinks based on how they taste sure, but before that I'm checking on if they're healthy for me. "This can of soda has more sugar in it than the bottle of soda does." I'm looking at the numbers and making a decision based on that, the facts (Te) I don't really care about interesting. Is it good for me? No, okay no more of that. Soda is now gone out of my life and I'm not going to go back to it because it's not good for me and would cause problems for me further down the line. However, yes, there is Se here, but there always seems to be some kind of logic that it has to go through for you, as if it's filtering the Se from going too overboard.


So you are saying it's Ti-Se combo, but not Se-Ti one? Anyway my process is something like this: Don't want well known brand soda, those are just boring and over-carbonated > Is there any interesting stuff, I haven't tried or can't imagine taste? > No, then is there something simple and something I know it's good? > Big and cheap? (okay, this is not a requirement, but has some appeal factor)> Looks good 

Also I love Mountain Dew, but in my country it's rare to find it. Once I tried it in airport and pretty much instantly liked it, also I love it's green bottles. I love green color too (my favourite). Also, now I don't buy cans. They are so easy to spill in opening process, they are small and drinking from them feels awkward, due to the metal edge and pin to open can being there. On top of that I suspect, that cans are more expensive, so why I should pay more for the inferior?



ReimuHakureix said:


> It's nice to see that even you can point it out without even much of my own assistance. Even I have moments where I'll see a new soda, and despite my feelings, I kind of want to try it because it's something I haven't tried before. Maybe I'll try it once, but then I'll stop it entirely because I don't drink soda anymore, but that was a new taste that I wanted to experience so I give it a pass. Did the same thing with alcohol. I don't drink alcohol, but I don't want to completely judge it without giving it a chance, so I'll do it every now and then. The windows of me giving a chance to something I don't agree with are hardly open. I'm strongly opposed to things that disagree with my own morals of what I believe is right or wrong, while your logic directs your Se to an extent. We both spend a lot of money on miscellaneous shit with little care for the money that was lost, but both of us realize it's not something we should be doing. I don't think Se-dom takes that small point at the end into consideration often, unless it's for something.


I think, that Se doms probably do that. They are not some special people to have unlimited money. 

Oh you met me, the anti-alcohol nazi. Okay I tried beer a bit some years ago, tasted like a shit. I hate the smell of stronger drinks too. I pretty much hated it for sensory reasons. Once I started mocking it in front of my family and I gave a promise to not drink it for 10 years. I think, it's gonna be the easiest challenge in my life as I still hate it. Not gonna lie, that sometimes it looks interesting, but the hate is much stronger. Also there was one time when my mom became drunk. Since that time I was shocked at how much it alcohol can do to the person and how horrible is that. It was disgusting, scary and had some other negative emotions mixed into that. To me it looked horrible. My rational mind asks me "what is the appeal of becoming temporarily brain-dead?". Honestly, I don't know the answer. Sodas are by far more appealing to me. Juices too, but not the alcohol. To make alcohol look even worse, it costs way much more than other superior beverages. I see no point in alcohol, I hate it. It's stupid to like it. My promise will be valid until I'm gonna be 25 years old. So yeah, lots to live. I think, I'm gonna make it. Also I'm a hermit with almost no friends, so peer pressure won't affect me if I even gonna experience it at all.

BTW I hope, that you actually saw Ti in shopping stuff, not just looked at my type. Just because I change it like clothes sometimes, so it's not wise for you to do so. If it's true, then thanks for helping me to see where it is. I have difficulties in seeing my Se and Ti. 



ReimuHakureix said:


> Sorry about that, it's not something I've experienced personally.


Neither I did.



ReimuHakureix said:


> Yes, and which one do you think between ENTP and INTP has the extroverted function that would work more *with* Fe?


ENTP, because they are damn good class clowns or good used stuff sellers lol. Stereotypes aside, they are actually good at using their Fe mixed up with their extraversion. I see no problem here, but INTPs often have problems related to ignoring their Fe. I have seen some examples. One L looking dude came into class at the lesson to pick up some stuff, he interrupted lesson. Someone was looking at him strangely and he said "what are you starring at?" rather harshly. After he went outta that classroom class bursted into laughing. In my previous school was another Ti dom, okay this one is ISTP, but Ti and Fe are in the same positions. Same scenario, but this time someone in the class didn't stare at him, but started giggling at him. He started asked what's so funny. She (the giggler and shit talker) tried to mock him a bit. He completely destroyed her with his heavy one-liner "Go to piss on your head!" (translation note: it sounds much cooler in Lithuanian as it is only three words and sounds much harsher, becasue he used slang word for word "piss" to make it sound much harsher). He was complete bad-ass and savage. The hole class laughed at that verbal destruction and giggler was left in same. Damn, it was so cool. Teacher didn't do anything, because ISTP was already out of classroom and the teacher was some sort of INFP and a fatso. Bit wimpish too. So yeah, inferior Fe... Also Ti doms often are not using it too much or use it such an offensive ways. BTW do you know Ryder from GTA San Andreas? He always mocks CJ for random stuff and no apparent reason just for fun. He is ISTP. The character he is based on is EAZY-E. He irl was very cool and bit harsh and ISTP too. Ti doms just are like that.


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

spaceynyc said:


> My Ni told me from the thread title alone that you made this thread ready for war. This was your subconscious inferior Ni motive. You don’t even realize it lol. But us Ni dominants do  and that’s why they’re getting “butthurt”
> 
> I refuse to engage because I see what’s going on. I will take the role of observer as I always do


Maybe INFJs could observe the differences in how INTJs received the thread by majority vs INFJs (which was never an initial point or premise), your intuition was right in detecting some facetious undertone in my delivery. But I think almost all of you instead of taking the info objectively and analyzing what may be the premise, JUMPED to defense assuming this was about you. Vs your INTJ cousins who did observe the subject more objective (even though they agreed with you it's obnoxious ). Just for the record this was all very conscious and there was a point, just the fallout of the WRONG people taking it the wrong way, I totally did not predict. The WRONG people assumed this was a shot at them. How many different ways do i need to state that for you all to consider that it was not a war on you? I had a motive I was CONSCIOUS of all along (Catwalk already called that out very early on in the thread) she basically in her own words called out that I was being obnoxious with Se & Ti by trying to ask legit Ni users to expose themselves and be voluntary pawns. (For the regard I don't have an issue making myself a pawn at times, so that was part of what I misjudged you all do). Never was a secret maybe observe closer. Remember I am Se you guys are looking for an agenda which is really pretty clear and acknowledged. You know how Se can be impulsive well Ni/Fe has down sides as well. No I am not suggesting you specifically are not Ni dom, I think you are. Just like bad use of dom Se is probably obnoxious and impulsive, you all are definitely exhibiting poor use of dom Ni by jumping to the wrong conclusion or defense even if yes you were accurate in assessing somethings.

The real person (several pages back towards the beginning) the thread was intended for was already baited long ago and never even picked up on it, they have also already exited (probably not an Ni dom than). I was asking Ni doms to expose this but it took an unpredictable turn (haha inferior Ni). How many different ways does this need to be said.


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

spaceynyc said:


> This thread is basically subjective Ti logic going to toe with irrational Ni perception. OP will never be convinced until it makes sense to her subjective logic that we are indeed Ni users. Good luck everyone, this thread will never end
> 
> PS I believe the Ni users here are indeed Ni users. I can see it


You missed what was right in front of your face all along! 

Waves hello elephant in the room was never you. But ok.

I totally don't doubt almost all of the listed INFJs type based on your ability to miss the giant fucken elephant in the room.


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## Agent X (May 23, 2017)

Sensational said:


> Maybe INFJs could observe the differences in how INTJs received the thread by majority vs INFJs (which was never an initial point or premise), your intuition was right in detecting some facetious undertone in my delivery. But I think almost all of you instead of taking the info objectively and analyzing what may be the premise, JUMPED to defense assuming this was about you. Vs your INTJ cousins who did observe the subject more objective (even though they agreed with you it's obnoxious ). Just for the record this was all very conscious and there was a point, just the fallout of the WRONG people taking it the wrong way, I totally did not predict. The WRONG people assumed this was a shot at them. How many different ways do i need to state that for you all to consider that it was not a war on you? I had a motive I was CONSCIOUS of all along (Catwalk already called that out very early on in the thread) she basically in her own words called out that I was being obnoxious with Se & Ti by trying to ask legit Ni users to expose themselves. Never was a secret maybe observe closer. Remember I am Se you guys are looking for an agenda which is really pretty clear and acknowledged. You know how Se can be impulsive well Ni/Fe has down sides as well. No I am not suggesting you specifically are not Ni dom, I think you are. Just like bad use of dom Se is probably obnoxious and impulsive, you all are definitely exhibiting poor use of dom Ni by jumping to the wrong conclusion or defense even if yes you were accurate in assessing somethings.


Actually, being an INTJ here, you could say the above about us as well. When your Ti starts questioning something that we live with all our lives, as the air we breathe, then yes, you could say it can be taken personally. The question is in this case, maybe you should try being more *subjective?* But honestly, your revelation above just screams out to me that you want assurances of what sort, but of which I can't tell as off yet. And the fact that you validated your point with logic along the lines of:



> "Remember I am Se you guys are looking for an agenda which is really pretty clear and acknowledged.You know how Se can be impulsive well Ni/Fe has down sides as well. No I am not suggesting you specifically are not Ni dom, I think you are. Just like bad use of dom Se is probably obnoxious and impulsive, you all are definitely exhibiting poor use of dom Ni by jumping to the wrong conclusion or defense even if yes you were accurate in assessing somethings."


Isn't doing you any favors at the current time. May I suggest seeing our view, before typing something as..*objective* as that? Now I did not intend to bash you in any sense, but do *try* seeing it from our perspective. (Ha!.. Ni.. perspectives. The irony)


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

Agent X said:


> Actually, being an INTJ here, you could say the above about us as well. When your Ti starts questioning something that we live with all our lives, as the air we breathe, then yes, you could say it can be taken personally. The question is in this case, maybe you should try being more *subjective?* But honestly, your revelation above just screams out to me that you want assurances of what sort, but of which I can't tell as off yet. And the fact that you validated your point with logic along the lines of:
> 
> "Remember I am Se you guys are looking for an agenda which is really pretty clear and acknowledged.You know how Se can be impulsive well Ni/Fe has down sides as well. No I am not suggesting you specifically are not Ni dom, I think you are. Just like bad use of dom Se is probably obnoxious and impulsive, you all are definitely exhibiting poor use of dom Ni by jumping to the wrong conclusion or defense even if yes you were accurate in assessing somethings."
> 
> Isn't doing you any favors at the current time. May I suggest seeing our view, before typing something as..*objective* as that? Now I did not mean this to bash you in any sense, but do *try* seeing it from our perspective (Ha!.. Ni.. perspectives. The irony.)


:rollseyes: OMFG how many different ways does it have to be said for you all just joining the party


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## The red spirit (Sep 29, 2015)

spaceynyc said:


> My Ni told me from the thread title alone that you made this thread ready for war. This was your subconscious inferior Ni motive. You don’t even realize it lol. But us Ni dominants do  and that’s why they’re getting “butthurt”
> 
> I refuse to engage because I see what’s going on. I will take the role of observer as I always do


I'm gonna add, that I'm as someone with high Se saw that coming too, but you Ni doms are just even giving it a try to make it otherwise. You are the only ones converting this thread into war by your "hella accurate predictions". Is it really that hard to sometimes participate and help people to understand your inner stuff? I wouldn't say so.


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

Random but somewhat on topic:

I think INFJs might be more likely to catch onto ENTP trolling. They seem to distinguish and recognize Ne/Si quick.

While it appears most INTJs seem more likely to actually catch on and see thru ESTP trolling. Their Te seems to be able to recognize what Ti with Se axis is doing. 

Ok well toodles


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## The red spirit (Sep 29, 2015)

Sensational said:


> While it appears most INTJs seem more likely to actually catch on and see thru ESTP trolling. Their Te seems to be able to recognize what Ti with Se axis is doing.
> 
> Ok well toodles


In practice I have seen INTJs making fools outta themselves much more frequently due to that trait. They look for seriousness and in the field of computers their strong judgments are often just dumb.


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## Asd456 (Jul 25, 2017)

@Sensational I was aware of your intent and didn't care to be honest because your trolling was harmless. I mean, you literally created this thread. :laughing:


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## Xcopy (Dec 10, 2016)

The red spirit said:


> In practice I have seen INTJs making fools outta themselves much more frequently due to that trait. They look for seriousness and in the field of computers their strong judgments are often just dumb.


Yeah, but I believe that's kind of how the Se-Ni/Ni-Se axis works in a way. It's a lot more risky, compared with the cautious Ne-Si/Si-Ne axis. So more often than not, you're going to risk looking like an idiot.


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## incision (May 23, 2010)

The red spirit said:


> Turi, So you won't explain Ni to us? Example isn't an explanation.


He's stated that he doesn't know what Ni is, while telling everyone that what they've expressed are not examples of Ni or if their examples/descriptions match Ni, he claims they're copy and pastes. When called on for his description of Ni, he unrelentingly plays more games by shifting around and around.

tl;dr - He has no idea what Ni is or how the function stacking works.


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