# Who is the most intimidating NT



## SweetPickles

I think *ENTP* because they are usually very witty and intelligent. When I was younger I would break off relations with them because I was scared of being hurt. They come across as players.

My grandfather was an *INTJ* and you should have seen how everyone in my family would try to impress him. I never did that, I was always myself and I think he liked that. Although I worked with an INTJ who was VERY INTIMIDATING, he made me cry...seriously. It wasn't because of anything he said, I just knew I disappointed him. I wanted to impress him and failed miserably. Not only did I cry, right in front of him and other staff I proclaimed "I AM NOT WORKING WITH THAT MAN ANYMORE!!". Good Lord /face palm, no I wasn't fired. He was a doctor and I was a nurse working together on a case. My stupid inappropriate (and unprofessional) emotions caused sincere puzzlement to him. God that was embarrassing. I generally like the INTJs on the forum, I like their advice they make me feel like I am a hobbit talking to Gandalf LOL. Not the younger INTJs, they are still in their...phase.

Married to an *ENTJ* saw his inner fuzzy immediately. When he is at work I have witnessed him in action, he seems like such an ass LOL and people are running around doing what he says. I told him once that he sounded like a dickhead at work, he was so surprised. I swear he has no idea how brash he can come across.

Oh *INTPs* I like you guys . Not intimidating and usually very entertaining in a good way. I think we perceive things in a similar way but act so different.

Okay maybe *INTJs* are the most intimidating, especially the less developed ones that carry the "you are stupid, not worthy of life" air around them. The more in touch their Fe, the better .


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## spookyfornever

Depends. INTPs can be very intimidating in a sense of power, as in walking into a room and people noticing. presence, is the word i suppose. 
Do you mean physically, socially, emotionally, intellectually? details are the spice of life!


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## SweetPickles

spookyfornever said:


> Depends. INTPs can be very intimidating in a sense of power, as in walking into a room and people noticing. presence, is the word i suppose.
> Do you mean physically, socially, emotionally, intellectually? details are the spice of life!


What are details??? 

I am letting the posters answer by their own interpretation of what they consider intimidating. Note the different way ENTPs intimidate me than INTJs. I bet most people wouldn't find them intimidating, especially ENTJs, ENFP's. I am also an INFP, so it would be interesting to see how other types see perceive the 4 NTs.


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## spookyfornever

Well then as i said, depends.
On a side note, when it comes to INTPs, I'm pretty sure that "Depends" is actually the most commonly used word, not "The"


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## SweetPickles

I know this is a complete horseshit stereotype of INTPs, but I always picture the Lone Gunmen from the X-Files, especially the blonde guy. LOL

Disclaimer: don't get offended it's a silly stereotype, just like emo INFPs writing poetry under a willow tree while crying.


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## SweetPickles

spookyfornever said:


> Well then as i said, depends.
> On a side note, when it comes to INTPs, I'm pretty sure that "Depends" is actually the most commonly used word, not "The"


NOOOO damn you INTPs! Depends is such a safe answer, just go with it. How about in your real life experience.


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## spookyfornever

In my real life expereince? Small town, I'm the only NT I know :'(


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## kitsu

INTJ: most intimidating. They radiate waves of raw intellect and lucidity, don't care for small talk or interpersonal warmth (also my favorite type, mind you)

ENTJ: much less intimidating, to me their tendency to be domineering and disregard for feelings is just a sign of insecurity. They're more annoying than anything else.

XNTP's: not intimidating. Have that lovely yet discrete Ne-Fe vibe to them, very open to discussing any subject, always have interesting things to say and new ideas to put forwards. Happy to make their ideas simpler for you to understand. Much more respectful than NTJ's (Te is rude, man).


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## SweetPickles

spookyfornever said:


> In my real life expereince? Small town, I'm the only NT I know :'(


No worries...they will come. Move out of that small city before it sucks the life out of you INTP, god that must be lonely!


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## kitsu

spookyfornever said:


> Depends. INTPs can be very intimidating in a sense of power, as in walking into a room and people noticing. presence, is the word i suppose.


This is so the opposite of my experience with INTP's.
The ones I know are all what I'd call "polite observers", power is the last word I'd use to describe them (and I find it much better that way)

What you're describing sounds more like type 8


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## hanzer

MelanieM said:


> What are details???
> 
> I am letting the posters answer by their own interpretation of what they consider intimidating. Note the different way ENTPs intimidate me than INTJs. I bet most people wouldn't find them intimidating, especially ENTJs, ENFP's. I am also an INFP, so it would be interesting to see how other types see perceive the 4 NTs.


I generally find the ENTx types more _annoying_ than the INTx types. Exxx types often don't seem to have a good idea of boundaries and rights - they tend to try to control more than they should and they might [frequently] make demands that are irrational (unbalanced/unfair).

*NT's ordered by level of annoyance - Game of Thrones Edition*​
*ENTJ*










*ENTP*










*INTJ*










*INTP*


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## spookyfornever

MelanieM said:


> No worries...they will come. Move out of that small city before it sucks the life out of you INTP, god that must be lonely!


Ding. My graduating class is 73 people. Ah well, next year it's off to college....well, technically this summer


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## SweetPickles

Hurricane said:


> INTJ: most intimidating. They radiate waves of raw intellect and lucidity, don't care for small talk or interpersonal warmth (also my favorite type, mind you)
> 
> ENTJ: much less intimidating, to me their tendency to be domineering and disregard for feelings is just a sign of insecurity. They're more annoying than anything else.
> 
> XNTP's: not intimidating. Have that lovely yet discrete Ne-Fe vibe to them, very open to discussing any subject, always have interesting things to say and new ideas to put forwards. Happy to make their ideas simpler for you to understand. Much more respectful than NTJ's (Te is rude, man).


I don't think ENTJs are insecure, in fact quite the opposite. I am talking about the healthy ones. Their confidence and natural leadership is often misperceived as arrogant. The whole reason I came to PerC was to delve into the psyche of these mysterious confident creatures.

Thank you for your response though! )


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## foi_unbound

it doesn't all rely on a personality type. people are different they morph change personlities and create problems misunderstings because they don't don't what's going on with them. when you change personalities everything is scary you don't know what to do how to live and how to treat others. im sorry you were hurt but i see you got through it through compassion and understanding that he meant you know harm because people innately love people and want to connect but don't know how.


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## SweetPickles

hanzer said:


> I generally find the ENTx types more _annoying_ than the INTx types. Exxx types often don't seem to have a good idea of boundaries and rights - they tend to try to control more than they should and they might [frequently] make demands that are irrational (unbalanced/unfair).
> 
> *NT's ordered by level of annoyance - Game of Thrones Edition*
> 
> *ENTJ*
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> *ENTP*
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> *INTJ*
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> *INTP*


I love that you weave Game of Thrones in this thread it's my favorite TV show, and currently on book 2. BTW Robert Baratheon ESFP IMO, and Tyrion is an ENTP!! I agree with Tywin and Cersie.


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## SweetPickles

foi_unbound said:


> it doesn't all rely on a personality type. people are different they morph change personlities and create problems misunderstings because they don't don't what's going on with them. when you change personalities everything is scary you don't know what to do how to live and how to treat others. im sorry you were hurt but i see you got through it through compassion and understanding that he meant you know harm because people innately love people and want to connect but don't know how.


No fun


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## Laxgort

I don't whink ENTx are more intimidating than INTx. It's true that ENTx usually want to have the control more than INTx, but... Are they really more intimidating? ENTP no. Hell, no. ENTJs? You can think it, but... They're only intimidating as a "boss", I say... They're not intimidating really for me, they only seem it and in a few ocassions. 
I think INTJ can be the most intimidating NT-type in general, because the INTPs I met usually try to be more "peaceful" and they only seem cold, but they don't intimidate.


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## VIIZZY

Hmm I think xNTJ's are more likely to actively try to intimidate others; especially unhealthy ones. 

I'd list INTP's as least intimidating; at least at first glance. The only INTP's I see trying to be intimidating are ones with security issues who want to seem bigger than they are and then project this intimidation trait onto all INTP's....they also tend to be teenagers.


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## Euclid

My logic is intimidating. You can't escape it. Some INTPs are more intimidating than anybody else to the most powerful people in the world.


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## SweetPickles

Seems like most NTs think they are the most intimidating.

@Euclid
How is logic intimidating?


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## Pancreatic Pandora

Eh... I don't really find any NTs intimidating. I think the only type that's more or less consistently given me an "intimidating" impression is the type 8 ESTP. And even then, a lot of ESTPs seems to be really nice so it's hard to generalize. At their worst, NTPs are annoying and NTJs are cold but not really intimidating. Although I do sometimes feel intelectually intimidated around Te-doms.


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## SweetPickles

Pancreatic Pandora said:


> Eh... I don't really find any NTs intimidating. I think the only type that's more or less consistently given me an "intimidating" impression is the type 8 ESTP. And even then, a lot of ESTPs seems to be really nice so it's hard to generalize. At their worst, NTPs are annoying and NTJs are cold but not really intimidating. Although I do sometimes feel intelectually intimidated around Te-doms.


Don't feel intimidated, while most of the time they know what they are talking about, I have seen many act like experts in an area and successfully bullshit their logic and it sounds so confident you really believe it. They can also exhaust you with their debate style...they would make great lawyers. They can be unrelenting where you are thinking "he is killing me he could go all day long, I'm going to agree with him so he shuts up and then I'm taking a nap". "Am I in Guantanamo?" 

I don't think it's wise to get on their bad side, especially if they are in a position of power over you, but that can be true with anyone.

I think if your confidence is strong and you stand by your convictions in a respecting manner they respect you even more. If they are disrespectful, don't put up with it at all and don't take it personally. You don't have to enter their debate, which is what they want it's their strong point. You can just shrug it off and say your final statement then leave. The hard part (for me) is keeping your cool.


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## VIIZZY

Pancreatic Pandora said:


> Eh... I don't really find any NTs intimidating. I think the only type that's more or less consistently given me an "intimidating" impression is the type 8 ESTP. And even then, a lot of ESTPs seems to be really nice so it's hard to generalize. At their worst, NTPs are annoying and NTJs are cold but not really intimidating. Although I do sometimes feel intelectually intimidated around Te-doms.


I agree, I think ESTP's are much more intimidating than any of the NT's; or at least the way I've seen them argue is...at some point they do come across as trying too hard in my opinion. 
@Euclid 
The only time I can see an INTP being intimidating is when we're actively outmaneuvering others; think Sherlock Holmes from the movies. That's about it...


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## Pancreatic Pandora

MelanieM said:


> Don't feel intimidated, while most of the time they know what they are talking about, I have seen many act like experts in an area and successfully bullshit their logic and it sounds so confident you really believe it. They can also exhaust you with their debate style...they would make great lawyers. They can be unrelenting where you are thinking "he is killing me he could go all day long, I'm going to agree with him so he shuts up and then I'm taking a nap". "Am I in Guantanamo?"
> 
> I don't think it's wise to get on their bad side, especially if they are in a position of power over you, but that can be true with anyone.
> 
> I think if your confidence is strong and you stand by your convictions in a respecting manner they respect you even more. If they are disrespectful, don't put up with it at all and don't take it personally. You don't have to enter their debate, which is what they want it's their strong point. You can just shrug it off and say your final statement then leave. The hard part (for me) is keeping your cool.


Yeah, I know what you mean regarding their confidence... What bothers me is when they put a lot of emphasis on external facts, etc. during debates while I feel my opinions can be really subjective (that's something that is explained if you look at the INFJ vs ENTJ cognition) and I find it hard to debate in the same level as them. Anyway, I think I can do just fine.


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## Grain of Sugar

I could see ENTJ although I don't have much experience with confirmed ones. Guessing  INTPs probabely more online.
When I'm annoyed, I can be. "You are stupid, don't piss me off or I'd like to killlk you"-look

But in general, people looking like a closet.


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## Euclid

MelanieM said:


> Seems like most NTs think they are the most intimidating.
> 
> @Euclid
> How is logic intimidating?


It's intimidating to people who are into bullshitting others and/or themselves, because it brings this into light.


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## SweetPickles

Euclid said:


> It's intimidating to people who are into bullshitting others and/or themselves, because it brings this into light.


I guess I could see this as an INTP using logic to debate Christianity with a believer, how it would intimidate their believes if they were not strong...?

/shrug

I think INTPs are nice and more flexible with their logic, more open to other logical explanations while the NTJs may be more stalwart.


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## Grandmaster Yoda

INTPs are clearly the most intimidating. 







As represented by this chart.
ENTJ: Lion
INTJ: Tiger
ENTP: Parrot
INTP: Owl
Now I don't know about you but owls are much more intimidating than big cats capable of tearing you limb from limb and perhaps more ambiguously more intimidating than a parrot, however parrots will mimic sounds which may be slightly more intimidating to most people than being silently watched overnight by an owl.


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## SweetPickles

Grandmaster Yoda said:


> INTPs are clearly the most intimidating.
> View attachment 109170
> 
> As represented by this chart.
> ENTJ: Lion
> INTJ: Tiger
> ENTP: Parrot
> INTP: Owl
> Now I don't know about you but owls are much more intimidating than big cats capable of tearing you limb from limb and perhaps more ambiguously more intimidating than a parrot, however parrots will mimic sounds which may be slightly more intimidating to most people than being silently watched overnight by an owl.


Oh yes! Those owls are fierce! Always hearing about them attacking innocent human bystanders in the news. By that chart INTJs  Much respect for tigers, my favorite animal so beautiful but very dangerous. Very precise killers, could totally take on a lion.

INFPs are seals? At least they are cute.


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## Scruffy

I was going to write something generic about my type being the most intimidating with only one free hand, but I caught a look at myself in the mirror and involuntarily voided my bowels due to my own intimidating presence.


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## Euclid

MelanieM said:


> I guess I could see this as an INTP using logic to debate Christianity with a believer, how it would intimidate their believes if they were not strong...?
> 
> /shrug


German?  Some beliefs are intimidating in and of themselves without any external help, it might even take an INTP to disarm it from it's potential harm, while others give you a false sense of security, which is equally harmful, in which case it would be intimidating.


MelanieM said:


> I think INTPs are nice and more flexible with their logic, more open to other logical explanations while the NTJs may be more stalwart.


True, but that's only when it comes to explaining things. NTJs might be more aggressive, and INTPs passive from a superficial perspective, but in the end it all boils down to who has the bigger guns.


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## VIIZZY

Euclid said:


> It's intimidating to people who are into bullshitting others and/or themselves, because it brings this into light.


I wouldn't see that as intimidating however; if I were in the shoes of the bser I'd be embarrassed but not intimidated by the one calling me out.


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## LostFavor

Just based on my experiences, I'd say ENTJs. They are the most likely to make me stop in my tracks and I kind of revere their gumption, which is where the intimidation probably stems from. I wouldn't say I'm afraid though. I can see the cogs turning. I'd actually say the most intimidating to me by default is a focused ESTP.

ENTPs are too... flighty (for lack of a better word) to intimidate me, INTJs are too transparent to be intimidating because I know how it all goes from being one (it's more just a stalemate if we're both being withdrawn - nothing happens), and INTPs are much more likely to surprise me with reserves of knowledge than ever intimidate me for a moment. 

That said, individuals can shatter what I've said if the situation is right for it. I'm going to be far more intimidated by an expert in a field who I'm working under, for example, than some random person who has no special meaning or power in relation to me.


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## Euclid

VIIZZY said:


> I wouldn't see that as intimidating however; if I were in the shoes of the bser I'd be embarrassed but not intimidated by the one calling me out.


That's because you have little at stake.


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## VIIZZY

Euclid said:


> That's because you have little at stake.


True I don't get invested in most arguments so I wouldn't have anything at stake but from the same end of the spectrum; going off of the religious scenario another user brought up, I still wouldn't be intimidated especially if I were a diehard religious person. They tend to just brush off logical arguments as the other not understanding the basics of faith. 

From a personal perspective the only time I'm intimidated in debates is if I don't know the content that well as I can easily be talked over by others; including bsers.


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## SweetPickles

No responses from ENTJs? They must be out intimidating people. I asked my husband earlier (he thinks these forums are dumb lol idc), after hearing the personality types are BS tripe, he said probably INTJs, he respects them the most. He always likes the INTJ characters in movies.

I could see him being intimidated by a type 8 ESTP, he tests as a 8w7. I think my skin has toughened a nice 3 inches since we first met. Deep inside he's a big baby. I think we all are.


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## Sunn

Euclid said:


> It's intimidating to people who are into bullshitting others and/or themselves, because it brings this into light.


This. People are intimidated of calculated thoughts/actions but also of things they don't know' it just so happens that a lot of NT's are extremely well at hiding their emotions so people stay in the dark until the NT speaks.

INTJ's are probably the most intimidating to me PERSONALLY (even though I am one) because of how an INTJ can so easily destroy anyone in an argument/outright shun them just because they prove they're of no value mentally. Some people may think it's arrogance when an INTJ argues but as an INTJ myself' I don't think it's arrogance.

Arrogance is an excuse by other people to debunk something that's irrefutable. The truth hurts and some people dislike that.


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## shameless

spookyfornever said:


> Depends. INTPs can be very intimidating in a sense of power, as in walking into a room and people noticing. presence, is the word i suppose.
> Do you mean physically, socially, emotionally, intellectually? details are the spice of life!


I definitely agree. Honestly in terms of intimidation the others don't really intimidate peeling back a layer. 
Definitely not ENTP or INTJ anyways not to me.

ENTJ is probably equal in my opinion as far as presence.


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## Euclid

I see the world as run by a few sociopathic INTJs whose greatest fear are the occasional clear-sighted INTP that emerge from the masses pointing out the emperor has no clothes. INTPs are if any type the most influential people historically, since they determine the course of civilizations like the navigator sets the course of a ship. After many millenia, all be forgotten except the few words of an INTP that still reverberate in the minds of people throughout rest of eternity or until the end of all intelligent life. The pen is mightier than the sword.


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## VIIZZY

Euclid said:


> I see the world as run by a few sociopathic INTJs whose greatest fear are the occasional clear-sighted INTP that emerge from the masses pointing out the emperor has no clothes. INTPs are if any type the most influential people historically, since they determine the course of civilizations like the navigator sets the course of a ship. After many millenia, all be forgotten except the few words of an INTP that still reverberate in the minds of people throughout rest of eternity or until the end of all intelligent life. The pen is mightier than the sword.


I'm going to assume you're just giving context for your stance on how intps can be intimidating and I don't disagree; like I mentioned Sherlock (especially Game of Shadows) demonstrates the way in which I can imagine us being intimidating. In the day to day workings of the world I think we're the least intimidating of the bunch...well entp's might be even less intimidating as they seem like they focus a good portion of their time into being funny as opposed to being king of the hill.


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## rogue350

One would assume that the ENTJ would be the most intimidating. They're given that commander stereotype and I would assume that extroverted people are often more intimidating but I could be wrong. Are perceived usually perceived as intimidating. I would think that judgers would get that designation. 

Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk


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## bgoodforgoodsake

Let's create a Venn diagram and place the people we know into it collectively.

We need to identify the spheres of intimidation, perhaps social, formal and as love interests. And on the outside would be not intimidating.


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## NIHM

hanzer said:


> I generally find the ENTx types more _annoying_ than the INTx types. Exxx types often don't seem to have a good idea of boundaries and rights - they tend to try to control more than they should and they might [frequently] make demands that are irrational (unbalanced/unfair).
> 
> *NT's ordered by level of annoyance - Game of Thrones Edition*​
> 
> *INTJ*


She seems to manic to be an INTJ, she never thinks out steps which in the end is ruled by fear. It all goes down to letting a fortune teller rule her which that is believing in the "what if syndrome" that us P's like to do. The "what ifs" are not apart of the INTJ system of thinking. She makes quick judgement calls on a whim of information without all the facts. She's far from being an INTJ. Maybe an INTP. You see this is why a P needs a J.

As to the Exxx types. I'm not sure about other ENFP's but I'm only dominate (demanding/controlling) a small part of my day normally outside of my home on shoots. With in my home and even in my own relationships (romantic/friends) I'm submissive and very laid back. I like the feeling of being submissive. I would prefer a dominate personality type to hang out with. Hell I picked my assistant because she gets things done for me and is very dominate. Now as a mature ENFP I'm working on realizing my boundaries (bubbly puppy). No one would ever describe me as unfair/ demanding/ or irrational. I think because of my caring side I just like to see people happy. Anyways just saying not all E's are doms.


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## theredpanda

I'd say ENTJs or INTJs honestly- although they don't intimidate me, personally. Nobody intimidates me!!!


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## VIIZZY

NIHM said:


> She seems to manic to be an INTJ, she never thinks out steps which in the end is ruled by fear. It all goes down to letting a fortune teller rule her which that is believing in the "what if syndrome" that us P's like to do. The "what ifs" are not apart of the INTJ system of thinking. She makes quick judgement calls on a whim of information without all the facts. She's far from being an INTJ. Maybe an INTP. You see this is why a P needs a J.
> 
> As to the Exxx types. I'm not sure about other ENFP's but I'm only dominate (demanding/controlling) a small part of my day normally outside of my home on shoots. With in my home and even in my own relationships (romantic/friends) I'm submissive and very laid back. I like the feeling of being submissive. I would prefer a dominate personality type to hang out with. Hell I picked my assistant because she gets things done for me and is very dominate. Now as a mature ENFP I'm working on realizing my boundaries (bubbly puppy). No one would ever describe me as unfair/ demanding/ or irrational. I think because of my caring side I just like to see people happy. Anyways just saying not all E's are doms.


Correct me if I'm wrong, and there is a high chance of me being wrong, but isn't making quick judgement calls on a whim of info more indicative of Sensors? Aren't they the ones with 'hunches' and what not? So is it possible Cersei is a Sensor?


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## Agg Herbor

*INTPs* don't at all intimidate me. I often look to them for knowledge and insight, and they usually love to muse over intellectually stimulating topics with me. Their body language is soft and docile.
*
ENTPs *don't intimidate me because they just aren't serious people. They're goofs donned with an intellectual mask. Insightful with strange, blocky body language.

*ENTJs *slightly intimidate me because a) I don't know any off hand, and b) they have a reputation for being concerned with the practical usefulness of a person. That comes off as cold and insensitive to me, but only because I'm not at all an NT. Presumably rigid and spikey body language. 

*INTJs *fucking intimidate me. Their absolute lack of regard for how their words impact people emotionally just stupefies me. They will cut you down intellectually with their frowny you-are-an-insufferable-moron face. It feels like they're just cooking your entire character. Very closed off, inward body language.


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## NIHM

theredpanda said:


> I'd say ENTJs or INTJs honestly- although they don't intimidate me, personally. Nobody intimidates me!!!






Best video to watch about this. She's an INTP. Might even be an ISTP. What she is not is a J or a F. Basically she goes on little information and then nilly willy forms a conclusion (which most of the time is wrong) and leads to a worsen state if she had just left things alone. Also normally the facts is what she "thinks" are facts and never based on pure evidence. Like pointing the finger at someone for a death right after it happens with out doing any investigation.


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## Elistra

MelanieM said:


> No responses from ENTJs? They must be out intimidating people. I asked my husband earlier (he thinks these forums are dumb lol idc), after hearing the personality types are BS tripe, he said probably INTJs, he respects them the most. He always likes the INTJ characters in movies.
> 
> I could see him being intimidated by a type 8 ESTP, he tests as a 8w7. I think my skin has toughened a nice 3 inches since we first met. Deep inside he's a big baby. I think we all are.


I really have nothing to say, but to note that this thread makes me smile. 

A lot.


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## SweetPickles

Your smile is intimidating me :/


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## CorrosiveThoughts

It depends on who's being intimidated. xNTJs probably evoke a mixture of admiration and intimidation among NFs. While xNTPs in my experience can have similar effects on SJs with rigid and/or conservative views.


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## Elistra

MelanieM said:


> Your smile is intimidating me :/


Oh come on... I love cats, how bad could I _possibly_ be? :wink:


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## SweetPickles

Elistra said:


> Oh come on... I love cats, how bad could I _possibly_ be? :wink:


You are an ENTJ 8w7, can be pretty fucking scary if provoked, I know this bc I live with one. He is So/Sp so that simmers him down...also he's asleep right now, this is him at his sweetest.


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## Elistra

MelanieM said:


> You are an ENTJ 8w7, can be pretty fucking scary if provoked, I know this bc I live with one. He is So/Sp so that simmers him down...also he's asleep right now, this is him at his sweetest.


Guilty as charged on the temper, but how would one go about losing one's shit on an INFP? It would be like going Krakatoa on a kitten, or something. What could an INFP ever possibly do that would merit that kind of response, anyway?


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## SweetPickles

Elistra said:


> Guilty as charged on the temper, but how would one go about losing one's shit on an INFP? It would be like going Krakatoa on a kitten, or something. What could an INFP ever possibly do that would merit that kind of response, anyway?


Hmm...he doesn't see me that way. I don't like confrontations so I just let it all collect until I eventually go apeshit. I don't even remember the things I say but he tells me I have a tongue of a serpent LOL! I consider that a compliment. I think it's my 6w5 nature. And when he starts OMG it doesn't end. Then finally I do the silent treatment (he has worn me down, you guys can argue for days). He cools down much faster, it takes me a little longer then we kiss and make up. I don't know how our marriage works but it does, just has a few intense moments.

I can't speak for all INFPs but I can be stubborn and passive aggressive, I have noticed that ENTJs don't like that lol. When you live with someone for a while you know what can really piss someone off. I don't like to go there because it's really not healthy for the marriage...but I have. 98% of the time I am a kitten, I really dislike arguing and strive for a peaceful home, but I have to stand my ground. I swear to God he treats me like his daughter and that pisses me off! Fun times.

(That percentage may be a bit lower)


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## Scelerat

MelanieM said:


> I guess I could see this as an INTP using logic to debate Christianity with a believer, how it would intimidate their believes if they were not strong...?
> 
> /shrug
> 
> I think INTPs are nice and more flexible with their logic, more open to other logical explanations while the NTJs may be more stalwart.


To an INTP logic = Valid argument. 

To an XNTJ logic = Valid argument, sound argument and factually supported argument. 

Ti logic is kind of flawed in that it cares more about things "making sense" rather than being factually accurate. I think the best illustration of Ti gone wild is the Platon Horse fable, where people spent days debating and arguing over how many teeth a horse has instead of just looking in a horse's mouth. 

Ti logic can be used just as effectively, hell even more effectively to debate pro-religion, I think it's damn near impossible to do that using Te, I.E. evidence.


----------



## Euclid

Scelerat said:


> To an INTP logic = Valid argument.
> 
> To an XNTJ logic = Valid argument, sound argument and factually supported argument.
> 
> Ti logic is kind of flawed in that it cares more about things "making sense" rather than being factually accurate. I think the best illustration of Ti gone wild is the Platon Horse fable, where people spent days debating and arguing over how many teeth a horse has instead of just looking in a horse's mouth.
> 
> Ti logic can be used just as effectively, hell even more effectively to debate pro-religion, I think it's damn near impossible to do that using Te, I.E. evidence.


Rather than flawed, I would say that Ti-logic can be relevant or irrelevant. It is never flawed. Regarding Platon's horse, there has to be certain characteristics that make up a horse, otherwise you would not be able to tell that it is a horse that you are counting the teeth in. The fact that you are doing it already presumes the concept does not require a certain number of teeth, which makes the act self defeating; you could look another horse in the mouth and it could have a different number of teeth.


----------



## SweetPickles

Euclid said:


> Rather than flawed, I would say that Ti-logic can be relevant or irrelevant. It is never flawed. Regarding Platon's horse, there has to be certain characteristics that make up a horse, otherwise you would not be able to tell that it is a horse that you are counting the teeth in. The fact that you are doing it already presumes the concept does not require a certain number of teeth, which makes the act self defeating; you could look another horse in the mouth and it could have a different number of teeth.


I'm sorry WTF are you talking about...ever? Lol (use baby words bc I am an INFP=Illogical). Please don't turn this into a cog function over analysis paralysis circle jerk party. 

:wonders why she made an NT thread bc she hates cog function debates and NT's never thank anyone except other NTs, she knew beforehand all the NT's would be claiming themselves to be the most intimidating:


----------



## Elistra

MelanieM said:


> Hmm...he doesn't see me that way. I don't like confrontations so I just let it all collect until I eventually go apeshit. I don't even remember the things I say but he tells me I have a tongue of a serpent LOL! I consider that a compliment. I think it's my 6w5 nature.



If what he does is enough to make even an INFP go apeshit... well, he probably deserves it, tbh.



MelanieM said:


> And when he starts OMG it doesn't end. Then finally I do the silent treatment (he has worn me down, you guys can argue for days). He cools down much faster, it takes me a little longer then we kiss and make up. I don't know how our marriage works but it does, just has a few intense moments.


Haha, yeah, I can argue almost indefinitely as well, but it's usually not intended to be an angry thing. NT's like to debate things just in general, I think. For me, there's a definite difference between _"Let's hash this out."_ arguing, and _"I've had enough of your bullshit!"_ arguing. 

Now, when it is an angry thing, for me, it's like a summer storm. It's hot, humid, sticky, and miserable. And then there is a very intense thunderstorm. And afterwards, it's much cooler outside, much less humid, and the air has been cleared. My mood returns to normal very quickly. 



MelanieM said:


> I can't speak for all INFPs but I can be stubborn and passive aggressive, I have noticed that ENTJs don't like that lol.


I can't fault anyone for being stubborn without being a hypocrite, and let's be honest here... since when was strength of will a bad thing, just in general? People only call a high strength of will "stubbornness" when they disagree with whatever it is you're saying or doing. That same strength of will becomes a laudable "sticking to your guns" when they _are_ in agreement with you, is it not so? :happy:

As concerns the passive aggressive thing... yes, that's so goddamned FRUSTRATING! I've lost my shit on people many times over the years, for that very thing. 

... you know, I think I know what it is. I forget that people consider me scary or intimidating or whatever, and expect them to deal with me in a frank and open fashion. After all, I generally deal with them in such a fashion, so why wouldn't they? Tit for tat, it's only justice, is it not?

But people don't _work_ that way, not when they are standing in the middle of a metaphorical blast furnace, and fear that this mysteriously granted fire immunity they have is going to disappear any minute now.....

Cue the escalating inconsistent behavior, bullshit excuses, etc. 

They PROVOKE what they are afraid of! :frustrating:



MelanieM said:


> When you live with someone for a while you know what can really piss someone off. I don't like to go there because it's really not healthy for the marriage...but I have. 98% of the time I am a kitten, I really dislike arguing and strive for a peaceful home, but I have to stand my ground. I swear to God he treats me like his daughter and that pisses me off! Fun times.
> 
> (That percentage may be a bit lower)


Well, sometimes you have to return fire. I understand that. And with some people, they don't understand the warning shot and only comprehend a full-on broadside from the cannons. :frustrating:

Have you talked to him about all this?


----------



## The_Oracle

As an undetermined xNTP (separate thread), I'm most intimidated by xNFJ's because they see right through my bullshit and call me on it. 

ALL. THE. TIME. 

Seriously. Stop it guys. Let me have my fun.


----------



## FlaviaGemina

I am.


----------



## Euclid

Scelerat said:


> 1. By that logic, if you say that 10% of humans are religious, the other 90% aren't human, yet were counted as human when you did the survey. Reductio ad absurdum is a bitch.


Nope, this does not follow from what I said. The original debate was over the number of teeth a thing must have in order to be horse, it is in essence a semantic debate, not a factual one. Let's say that there are two horses. One has 40 teeth and the other has 42. Now from this according to your argument, a horse must have 41 teeth. Neither of the horses are horses i.e. this is a contradiciton in terms because a something cannot both be a horse and not a horse.



> 2. By that logic, we haven't discovered "God" either, should we act as if he/she/it exists? Your reply here is a perfect example of the "everything ends in solipsism" that my first post in this thread was about. There can also be an infinite amount of definitions for every single word you could possibly use in a syllogism, and you can always dispute a definition (in philosophy anyway), thus, no syllogism can ever be considered "true".


Huh? This is so far removed from what I said, I can't figure how you ended up with those questions. The point I'm making is that if the point is to try to approximate the average number of teeth a horse has, you can't because you need to know the total number of horses, which you can't know. There could be horses on many other planets we have not found. It was once considered that all swans were white, but then black swans were discovered. In other words - white is not part of the concept of a swan. The colour of a swan did not change to some averaged grey shade.



> 3. In everyday usage, we don't define a horse based on the number of teeth alone. If we defined a horse as having 44 teeth, and your mom had 44 teeth, would she be a horse?
> 
> The logic would be perfectly valid:
> Premise 1: A horse has 44 teeth.
> Premise 2: Euclid's mom has 44 teeth.
> Conclusion: Therefore Euclid's mom is a horse.


No, that argument is not valid, and I don't see any relevance to what I said here either.



> This is a perfect example of "INTPism" you think you're being logical, when in reality all your arguments inevitably end in the position of "There is no such thing as a fact" at that point you're discussing for the sake of discussion, which is an unproductive use of time.


There are facts, I never said otherwise.


> The point of my post was to show that valid logic alone is pointless and that's what INTPs seem to pride themselves on.


I did not dispute and that's also the point I was making that valid logical arguments can be irrelevant and useless, although I wouldn't say all or even most INTPs are as you suggest.



> To use 2 extremes of the "horse" position.
> 
> - Go out an count the number of teeth x horses have. Investigate whether any of them have had teeth removed. Get an upper and a lower number, lets say 36 and 44, and say "Horses have between 36 and 44 teeth, depending on gender and breed".
> 
> - Sit around all day in your house making up logically valid arguments for how many teeth a horse is likely to have.


I'm not trying to defend the latter, just critisizing the former, for confusing semantics with factuality. Those two are orthogonal and can have no influence on each other. Facts can help in making useful definitions, but it cannot determine them.


----------



## Euclid

Scelerat said:


> The logic is valid. @_Euclid_ do you want to make an appeal to fact, or do we stick with "only logic is truth"?
> 
> *Note* Yes, I know, I'm being a dick.


Take an ENTJs claims of validity of arguments with a grain of salt


----------



## Euclid

Forgot this one.


Scelerat said:


> Yes and no, a valid argument does not have to depend on any fact but an argument can be valid and not be sound. I do agree that "make sense" is not the best way to put it. I checked for definitions and I can't really find a solid one. So, I think the logic would be that for an INTP validity is the most important thing, for an XNTJ soundness trumps validity. Therefore, an argument will "make sense" to an INTP if it's valid, but won't "make sense" to an XNTJ unless it is also sound.
> 
> Can a valid argument that depends on facts, lets say:
> 
> Premise 1: All toothpicks are of metal.
> Premise 2: All forks are made from metal.
> Conclusion: Therefore all forks are toothpicks.
> 
> Be both true and false at the same time?


Also not a valid argument. It's in other words false. Anyways, a valid argument that depends on facts cannot be both true and false at the same time. No proposition can be.


----------



## rogue350

Benzy said:


> Overall, I'd say ENTP are the least intimidating. A lot of us simply won't care enough to be intimidating.
> That being said, God help you if you manage to actually piss one of us off.


But I would say that ENTPs can be intimidating if acting in such a manner would be beneficial to him/her. I can definitely channel my inner J-ness and have that attitude for a while. Maybe that's just because I'm an Enneagram 8.

Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk


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## malphigus

Now, why would one want to be known intimidating? Surprise is always a welcome element! :wink:


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## rogue350

malphigus said:


> Now, why would one want to be known intimidating? Surprise is always a welcome element! :wink:


Not really to be know as intimidating but to have that demeanor in certain situations.

Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk


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## Tranquility

INTJ. They mean well, but I never see it, and they always seem so cold and critical of everything...


----------



## Agg Herbor

well through the ENTJ-Te-I'm-going-to-shit-on-every-claim-your-subjective-ass-Ti-can-possibly-forge vs. the INTP-Ti-get-off-your-objective-44-toothed-high-horse-and-debate-the-issue-at-hand-directly logic catscratch match in this thread's comments, I think we can determine that the ENTJ is more intimidating.

disregarding who has the highground in the actual debate (I actually can't even say because it seems negligible to me (and is also going a bit over my head)), the ENTJ is being far more aggressive (the nature of Te), while the INTP is being less directly confrontational.


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## Tranquility

MelanieM said:


> So basically Te>Ti
> 
> Any INTJs care to share? This NT battle of the wits is getting interesting. That argument was so ENTJ and it made sense which is always a bonus in my book.


They're both equally useful and valid, but in different areas.


----------



## VIIZZY

EthereaEthos said:


> They're both equally useful and valid, but in different areas.


Agreed; trying to argue which is better is pointless. 

Ti tends to be better at abstract concepts; philosophy, psychology, etc. It's better able at dealing with inconsistencies such as human nature. 

Te is better at solid facts and formulas; math, physics, chemistry etc. Te likes to be grounded in facts and has a harder time adjusting to inconsistencies. 

Both have there places and both types are entirely capable of using either Ti or Te when necessary; to act like xNTPs are incapable of Te reasoning is idiotic and similarly to act like xNTJs are incapable of Ti is equally foolish.


----------



## dulcinea

I would say ENTJ, myself because of the dominant Te, but, to be honest, not by much. I don't tend to find NT's intimidating. I think with ENTJs its more that it's I type I tend to admire, often, because of that Te-dom ability to get stuff done and be really straightforward while being professional. My brother is a TJ, so I've learned how to present myself toward an extroverted thinking type pretty well, haha. 

I find INTJs not as intimidating, because, the ones I've interacted with, have a good Te, Fi balance, and I think, being Ni dominant, I can understand how they think better than a lot of types. I don't find ENTPs intimidating at all. I don't tend to find any EXXP intimidating, because I find, while some ENTPs can be kinda sassy (but in a playful way, often) I find, as P types, they don't tend to want to lead, so, maybe, it's because I'm a J, I tend to not be easily intimidated by Ps. And I definitely, don't find INTPs intimidating. The few ppl I've met that have come across as INTPs, to me, seem pretty quiet and mellow.


----------



## FlaviaGemina

MelanieM said:


> My grandfather was an *INTJ* and you should have seen how everyone in my family would try to impress him.


I hate it when people try to impress me. Some people treat me as if I was special or famous or whatever and I never get what makes them think that in the first place. I'm totally oblivious of the effect I have on people and I never know where their strange perceptions come from.
It's true that I'm bossy and stubborn and can sound very self-assured, but a lot of it comes naturally and sometimes I don't even mean to sound like that.


----------



## bgoodforgoodsake

> I'm not trying to defend the latter, just critisizing the former, for confusing semantics with factuality. Those two are orthogonal and can have no influence on each other. Facts can help in making useful definitions, but it cannot determine them.


In most cases useful definitions are all that you need.


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## Tranquility

VIIZZY said:


> Agreed; trying to argue which is better is pointless.
> 
> Ti tends to be better at abstract concepts; philosophy, psychology, etc. It's better able at dealing with inconsistencies such as human nature.
> 
> Te is better at solid facts and formulas; math, physics, chemistry etc. Te likes to be grounded in facts and has a harder time adjusting to inconsistencies.
> 
> Both have there places and both types are entirely capable of using either Ti or Te when necessary; to act like xNTPs are incapable of Te reasoning is idiotic and similarly to act like xNTJs are incapable of Ti is equally foolish.


Exactly! Typism is so annoying... :frustrating:


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## JustBob31459

(the threat of) physical aggression is intimidating. NT reasoning can be a lot of things, but if it intimidates you, then you are the one that have issues you should work on.


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## Pancreatic Pandora

Btw, why do so many people associate Te with agression? It's undoubtly a misconception and I'm not sure why people get that impression when Te is not really defined as agressive but associated with a focus on efficiency, organization, etc. You don't necessarily need to be agressive and all-in-your-face to organize people and run a smooth system and Te types don't seem particularly agressive, but are instead closer to bossy.


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## Scelerat

Ok, since PERC just ate my reply, v2 is going to be shorter. 



Euclid said:


> Nope, this does not follow from what I said. The original debate was over the number of teeth a thing must have in order to be horse, it is in essence a semantic debate, not a factual one. Let's say that there are two horses. One has 40 teeth and the other has 42. Now from this according to your argument, a horse must have 41 teeth. Neither of the horses are horses i.e. this is a contradiciton in terms because a something cannot both be a horse and not a horse.


The original debate was about how INTPs would spend 2 days trying to make up arguments to establish how many teeth a horse has, whereas an XNTJ would spend those 2 days gathering data about how many teeth a sample size of horses have. 

The latter part is an argument from a small sample size, if there are only 2 horses in the world, and one has 40 and the other 42, then you have to define it as being 40 - 42, if you find a third horse with 42, then you adjust until you reach the most probably amount of teeth. 



> Huh? This is so far removed from what I said, I can't figure how you ended up with those questions. The point I'm making is that if the point is to try to approximate the average number of teeth a horse has, you can't because you need to know the total number of horses, which you can't know. There could be horses on many other planets we have not found. It was once considered that all swans were white, but then black swans were discovered. In other words - white is not part of the concept of a swan. The colour of a swan did not change to some averaged grey shade.


Your argument here taken to the position you're likely to hold in 9 - 10 posts (if my statistics hold up), is that since you can never guarantee that new data won't emerge and change the facts, you cannot really trust facts. Since you can know what is in your own mind, and you can only trust your own mind to exist, you cannot trust external data (because of errors). Which is the definition of epistemological solipsism. 




> No, that argument is not valid, and I don't see any relevance to what I said here either.


It is valid. It follows every tenet for a logical argument in philosophy. 

If we define a horse as having 44 teeth, and your mom has 44 teeth, then it follows that your mom is a horse. It's a funnier version than the "Therefore mom is a rock" argument from Erasmus Montanus by Ludvig Holberg. 




> There are facts, I never said otherwise.


Name me one fact that is guaranteed to never be changed by new data. 



> I did not dispute and that's also the point I was making that valid logical arguments can be irrelevant and useless, although I wouldn't say all or even most INTPs are as you suggest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not trying to defend the latter, just critisizing the former, for confusing semantics with factuality. Those two are orthogonal and can have no influence on each other. Facts can help in making useful definitions, but it cannot determine them.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm criticizing the latter for being mental masturbation as it can exist in spite of facts. As I think I've shown quite conclusively, "pure reason" is an inadequate tool when we have the ability to collect data. In essence, the former is science, the latter is religion.
> 
> Unrelated:
> 
> I think it's funny how @*VIIZZY **said that INTPs are better at abstract ideas and then said Te is better at math, when math is probably one of the most abstract fields in existence. *
Click to expand...


----------



## SweetPickles

Pancreatic Pandora said:


> Btw, why do so many people associate Te with agression? It's undoubtly a misconception and I'm not sure why people get that impression when Te is not really defined as agressive but associated with a focus on efficiency, organization, etc. You don't necessarily need to be agressive and all-in-your-face to organize people and run a smooth system and Te types don't seem particularly agressive, but are instead closer to bossy.


I think Te-doms may come across as aggressive because they usually think and communicate very fast and precisely, so fast I'm usually still processing their first 3 sentences after they are done explaining themselves. I bet they lose patience when they can't comprehend why anyone else can't go with their plan...it's so efficient. They also can dominate a conversation by their tone (a little loud) and their complete confidence in the subject they are speaking about. Meanwhile, I am very indecisive and would be stuck thinking about all the alternatives and all the different things that may result...so I may be skeptical or think well how are they so sure of themselves? Or, I could be struck by their tone of voice (I am very sensitive to that), if it seems condescending to me that would make me just not listen to them at all because I was insulted. For the most part Te-doms know what they are talking about and have thought it through, even if things go bad I have seen Te-doms still make their ideas happen. They are aggressively determined on their goal, may have little patience with people who may appear to them be roadblocks.

I think the wise Te-doms that show tact and patience and actually listen to others are much more effective. Communication style is very important, you can be right all you want but if you come across negatively you will alienate some people that could potentially be of help someday.


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## Scelerat

MelanieM said:


> I think the wise Te-doms that show tact and patience and actually listen to others are much more effective. Communication style is very important, you can be right all you want but if you come across negatively you will alienate some people that could potentially be of help someday.


For me, the whole idea of a "sensitive communication style" is almost the antithesis of the point of language. "Softening up" reduces clarity and actually makes sure you communicate less information. For instance:

"I understand your point of view, and I realize that this is a subject that you're interested in and have spent a lot of time thinking about. However, I disagree with your analysis of the facts at hand, and think your conclusions are erroneous. Now kindly continue your work on this project" 

Uses about 6 - 7 times as many words as:

"Shut the fuck up and go back to work" 

I prefer directness and honesty, because it also tells me "This person is comfortable enough with their perspective to be honest and be direct rather than trying to butter me up"


----------



## VIIZZY

Pancreatic Pandora said:


> Btw, why do so many people associate Te with agression? It's undoubtly a misconception and I'm not sure why people get that impression when Te is not really defined as agressive but associated with a focus on efficiency, organization, etc. You don't necessarily need to be agressive and all-in-your-face to organize people and run a smooth system and Te types don't seem particularly agressive, but are instead closer to bossy.


The aggression is more likely related to an underdeveloped Fi which makes xNTJs insist on winning and proving themselves correct even when they're not; an immature NTJ with Fi issues will come across as aggressive in their need to be right. This aggression related to their Fi is incorrectly linked to their Te which is far from the problem.


----------



## Elistra

Strelok said:


> "Oh, nothing" would be my response


INTP husband:
_"Thinking."
"Just thinking."

_Poking at him for not elaborating produces something like this:_
"This is my brain on idle, and it is not necessarily anything that is of interest even to me. When you ask that, you're basically asking me to read a runtime log to you." _


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## Tranquility

Elistra said:


> I missed "rabid asshole" when I made the ENTJ Fukitol, but regardless, I think it covers the bases fairly well.


Genius! :laughing:


----------



## kazerpowa

ENTJs are intimidating as hell.

We INTPs are so sweet, actually! If an INTP ever gets mad at you, he'll be regretting it more than you, probably. Also he won't do any actual harm to you.

INTJs are somewhat intimidating, but they won't really harm you unless you really push them.

ENTPs are intimidating the same way a five-year-old child is. That is, the're not.

I think ENTJs are the most intimidating by far. It's not difficult to get an aggressive physical reaction from them. They also don't care about you, your feelings or your thoughts. If there's a type who doesn't have a heart, it's the ENTJ.


----------



## Strelok

kazerpowa said:


> I think ENTJs are the most intimidating by far. It's not difficult to get an aggressive physical reaction from them. They also don't care about you, your feelings or your thoughts. If there's a type who doesn't have a heart, it's the ENTJ.


INTJs are no different, in my experience.


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## sorene

Euclid said:


> My logic is intimidating. You can't escape it. Some INTPs are more intimidating than anybody else to the most powerful people in the world.


My brother is an INTP (also who I consider my closet friend, also two years younger) is the most logical person I know. His ability to reason is terrifying to me as an INTJ since I hate logical steps and prefer to use my Ni. I go to him to keep my Ni in check. Sure he has his weaknesses and sometimes let's his Fe get in the way of raw bluntness I see the world sometimes, preferring to try to live in harmony with each other. (My Fi couldn't care less about living in harmony). 

That being said I also have a very close ENTJ friend, while he is younger than me and is less developed, I find nothing terrifying in him and don't see it in his future either. He is all about inspiring people (something I feel immune to as an INTJ), and his logic and intuition take a back seat to his primary goal: inspiring others. In fact, I often find his conclusions naive or just not thought out enough. 

But INTP's man... they are scary, especially since you never know if they are holding their tongue because they think you won't understand if they explain the problems with your logic (I'm sure other's feel this way about INTJ's sometimes as well).


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## Scelerat

sorene said:


> That being said I also have a very close ENTJ friend, while he is younger than me and is less developed, I find nothing terrifying in him and don't see it in his future either. He is all about inspiring people (something I feel immune to as an INTJ), and his logic and intuition take a back seat to his primary goal: inspiring others. In fact, I often find his conclusions naive or just not thought out enough.


Sounds like an ENFJ.


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## SweetPickles

^^agree

While I find ENTJs inspiring, it's not because they are trying to inspire me or build me up. They inspire me because of their quick decision making and making things happen. Those two things are very foreign to me.

Inspire, may be a bad word because I don't want to model their behavior...maybe admire is better.


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## Reeseman

Interesting topic.

ENTJs are I think, very intimidating when you first meet them or know them, or when they get into the mood. Right off the bat I'd say that overall they're the most intimidating. Se third amplifies their anger when they have it. And when they argue they tend to be scary to those who aren't used to it. And they really don't care about being considerate, unless they've matured.

ENTPs do not ever LOOK intimidating, and sometimes it takes a lot to realize that they are actually pretty powerful. They could fuck you over, and the occasionally love to make you feel like an idiot. But they don't look or naturally feel intimidating. Their Fe is kind of easy to notice.

INTPs only are able to appear intimidating. Inwardly they're extremely non-confrontational. They're like the Austin Powers of MBT. 

INTJs ... well I'm an INTJ. Hard to comment on it. We can be dicks, but idk. With a Ni-dom perspective, we see people (including ourselves sometimes) as ants. We see who doesn't matter. It can depress people. Intimidating? idk.


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## SweetPickles

I personally would never want to be verbally slapped down by an ENTP, have been by an ENTJ :throws shade:.

ENTPs are quick on the wit and can make you feel like a clown literally. It's almost so well done you concede.

ENTJs will make you feel like you are nothing and make you want to punch them in the face, since that's not an option for me, I may take other routes.

Like I said before wise ENTJs are very effective. I think they avoid Fi because it appears as weakness, but oddly they are drawn to others that display Fi virtues such as empathy and caring.

INTPs are usually nice, but when they want to get into a logical debate it's too much...it's almost annoying so I concede but never feel like they are on top, sometimes I feel bad for them.

Hmmm...INTJs can make you feel very insignificant but it has the same effect as ENTJs yet I am not as afraid to show my contempt. 

I look at people and think we are basically all the same in a very broad sense. So when people try to act more superior than someone else, they come across as idiots or immature...dare I say deep down insecure. At least that's what I think as an INFP (the least intimidating of all types).


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## sorene

Scelerat said:


> Sounds like an ENFJ.


Oh wow I never even considered it. You might be right. My dad is an ENFJ so I'll have to examine the similarities. I just assumed he was growing into his ENTJ ways (he's 20). He really lacks tact and I assumed that was just him being an ENTJ.


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## rogue350

MelanieM said:


> I personally would never want to be verbally slapped down by an ENTP, have been by an ENTJ :throws shade:.
> 
> ENTPs are quick on the wit and can make you feel like a clown literally.


Wahahaha 

Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk


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## Scelerat

sorene said:


> Oh wow I never even considered it. You might be right. My dad is an ENFJ so I'll have to examine the similarities. I just assumed he was growing into his ENTJ ways (he's 20). He really lacks tact and I assumed that was just him being an ENTJ.


I don't consider myself lacking tact. Inspiring people would at best be a "means" to me, not an end in itself. Lacking tact isn't so much a type thing as a person thing, some of the most tactless people I know are XSFJ.


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## drmiller100

Reeseman said:


> I
> ENTPs do not ever LOOK intimidating, and sometimes it takes a lot to realize that they are actually pretty powerful. They could fuck you over, and the occasionally love to make you feel like an idiot. But they don't look or naturally feel intimidating. Their Fe is kind of easy to notice.
> .


Who me? I'm just a lowly entp type 8 mechanic who only works part time.....


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## rogue350

drmiller100 said:


> Who me? I'm just a lowly entp type 8 mechanic who only works part time.....


How do you exercise your Enneagram 8-ness if you're just a lowly mechanic? You need to control people 

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## drmiller100

rogue350 said:


> How do you exercise your Enneagram 8-ness if you're just a lowly mechanic? You need to control people
> 
> Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk


No. I need to control SITUATIONS. I will never be controlled, and I no longer have the desire to control others.


----------



## Hoodeh

Me


----------



## overthinker123

ENTP: they can blindside you out of nowhere after being friends for years

INTJ: just cus there intjs


----------



## SweetPickles

Hoodeh said:


> Me


Hmmm...I could see that, but I think mostly because ISTPs are enigmas to me. Seriously, the only type I can't figure out. You guys don't have an intimidating presence though. You do have the element of surprise.


----------



## absyrd

INTJ is the obvious answer here. Quiet, cold, reserved, efficient, bold, impossible to read. My mom is one. She pretty much failed a polygraph test because it could not read her in any way whatsoever.

Quoting my mom: "I applied at Bank of America and my polygraph test results were so perfect that they probably thought 'this bitch may as well be an alien'".


----------



## Strelok

absyrd2 said:


> She pretty much failed a polygraph test because it could not read her in any way whatsoever.


Polygraph tests have been considered crap for a long time.


----------



## CCCXXIX

[No message]


----------



## Promethea

The only intimidating NT is the one holding a gun or badge. Other than that, they're just meat like anyone else.


----------



## SweetPickles

Aha said:


> Perhaps. I am 3 7w8 8w7. It is the most assertive tritype
> Intimidation is all about confidence and physical appearance
> 
> 
> 
> Particularly the later - super confident and aggressive midget of any type wouldn't intimidate you, correct?
> Unless he is a Leprechaun


7w8s and 8w7s are definitely aggressive. Are you a 3w2 or 3w4? 

Yes a super confident midget ENTJ Sx/Sp 8w7, 8w9, 1w9 could intimidate me more so than an evil leprechaun. You didn't mention that the leprechaun was evil, but I am assuming you didn't mean the Lucky Charms guy.


----------



## Aha

CCCXXIX said:


> And that's exactly the kind of response I'd expect from an ENTP. Which is why their kind is not intimidating at all. Sheeple are so predictable.


You are the most entertaining ENTJ on the forum :laughing: Should I subscribe? :wink:



MelanieM said:


> 7w8s and 8w7s are definitely aggressive. Are you a 3w2 or 3w4?
> 
> Yes a super confident midget ENTJ Sx/Sp 8w7, 8w9, 1w9 could intimidate me more so than an evil leprechaun. You didn't mention that the leprechaun was evil, but I am assuming you didn't mean the Lucky Charms guy.


Neither or both. Just 3 or something in between. 

hey, tritype cannot be comprised of three enneagrams of the same triad  8, 1, 9 are all from the gut triad

Yeah, I meant that scary horror film


----------



## Deus Absconditus

Scelerat said:


> Ok, since PERC just ate my reply, v2 is going to be shorter.
> 
> 
> 
> The original debate was about how INTPs would spend 2 days trying to make up arguments to establish how many teeth a horse has, whereas an XNTJ would spend those 2 days gathering data about how many teeth a sample size of horses have.
> 
> The latter part is an argument from a small sample size, if there are only 2 horses in the world, and one has 40 and the other 42, then you have to define it as being 40 - 42, if you find a third horse with 42, then you adjust until you reach the most probably amount of teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> Your argument here taken to the position you're likely to hold in 9 - 10 posts (if my statistics hold up), is that since you can never guarantee that new data won't emerge and change the facts, you cannot really trust facts. Since you can know what is in your own mind, and you can only trust your own mind to exist, you cannot trust external data (because of errors). Which is the definition of epistemological solipsism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is valid. It follows every tenet for a logical argument in philosophy.
> 
> If we define a horse as having 44 teeth, and your mom has 44 teeth, then it follows that your mom is a horse. It's a funnier version than the "Therefore mom is a rock" argument from Erasmus Montanus by Ludvig Holberg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Name me one fact that is guaranteed to never be changed by new data.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did not dispute and that's also the point I was making that valid logical arguments can be irrelevant and useless, although I wouldn't say all or even most INTPs are as you suggest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm criticizing the latter for being mental masturbation as it can exist in spite of facts. As I think I've shown quite conclusively, "pure reason" is an inadequate tool when we have the ability to collect data. In essence, the former is science, the latter is religion.
> 
> Unrelated:
> 
> I think it's funny how @*VIIZZY **said that INTPs are better at abstract ideas and then said Te is better at math, when math is probably one of the most abstract fields in existence. *
Click to expand...

I agree with a lot of what you said but theres a few problems that I have:

1. What is "pure" reason to you?
2. What is "evidence" to you?

The reason I ask these questions because I disagree that pure reason is religious, instead its exactly what the word describes "pure reason", nothing less than reason. 



> rea·son
> ˈrēzən/Submit
> noun
> 1.
> a cause, explanation, or justification for an action or event.
> 
> 2.
> the power of the mind to think, understand, and form judgments by a process of logic.


If I look at a someone driving, I can reason that there is velocity and acceleration in motion. I dont need evidence for it, velocity and acceleration are factors of increasing motion, you cant have motion without velocity nor can you have increased velocity without acceleration. 

If I see objects falling to the ground, then I can reason that an external force is acting on these objects. I can also reason that if I apply a force to knock it back into the air, that it will eventually reach a point where it must fall again. I dont need evidence because the logic of a falling object has factors that must happen for an object to fall.

Also I need to know your definition of facts because my definition of facts tend to be different than others. I see a "fact" as anything "that is" along with any of the factors that make it "what it is". Grass is a fact to me, not the word "grass", but the object "grass" is a fact. We can call it whatever we want, but that object deriving from the object "Earth" is a fact, how it was derived is a fact, and all the factors that affect it/affected by it are facts. I dont see how those facts can change based on new data. I can see how we can find new data that leads us to understand further, the object of grass, but that doesnt change the facts of the grass, just adds on to them. 

Basically to me, evidence is within the reason because everything that "is" has factors that make it what it is, reason explains the relation of these factors. I dont need evidence to tell me about an object, I just need the object itself as the evidence.


----------



## SweetPickles

Aha said:


> You are the most entertaining ENTJ on the forum :laughing: Should I subscribe? :wink:
> 
> 
> 
> Neither or both. Just 3 or something in between.
> 
> hey, tritype cannot be comprised of three enneagrams of the same triad  8, 1, 9 are all from the gut triad
> 
> Yeah, I meant that scary horror film


If you are a 3w4, you are a big softy 

The intimidating midget is very special and defies all rules of the enneagram.


----------



## CCCXXIX

Aha said:


> You are the most entertaining ENTJ on the forum :laughing: Should I subscribe? :wink:


Only if you're okay with your brain hurting every now and again from attempting to process the sheer genius that is me.


----------



## Aha

MelanieM said:


> If you are a 3w4, you are a big softy
> 
> The intimidating midget is very special and defies all rules of the enneagram.


Enneagram 3 without wings fits better so I stick to it. 
Who said every enneagram should be winged anyway 
7 and 8 on other hand fit only if winged correspondingly 

lol...so, the intimidating midget (with cheat enneagram, why not 0w10?) enters a cafe... :crazy: *continue the story*








would scare shitless 



CCCXXIX said:


> Only if you're okay with your brain hurting every now and again from attempting to process the sheer genius that is me.


Oh don't you worry, I process a myriad of geniuses every day roud:


----------



## CCCXXIX

Aha said:


> Oh don't you worry, I process a myriad of geniuses every day roud:


Unfortunately a myriad of geniuses doesn't exist... Unless you have a low enough IQ that a majority of people rank higher than you. And then your statement only works if you are talking about geniuses in relation to your own personal intellect.


----------



## Aha

CCCXXIX said:


> Unfortunately a myriad of geniuses doesn't exist... Unless you have a low enough IQ that a majority of people ranked higher than you. hmmmm..


_"Geniuses"._ Don't you get a simple sarcasm?


----------



## Promethea

Wake me up when this pissing contest gets to the dick measuring competition.


----------



## CCCXXIX

Aha said:


> _"Geniuses"._ Don't you get a simple sarcasm?


As opposed to a complex sarcasm? No, I don't believe so.



Promethea said:


> Wake me up when this pissing contest gets to the dick measuring competition.


are you going to be the official "ruler"? Because I'm ready to enter the bathroom stall whenever.


----------



## Promethea

CCCXXIX said:


> As opposed to a complex sarcasm? No, I don't believe so.
> 
> 
> 
> are you going to be the official "ruler"? Because I'm ready to enter the bathroom stall whenever.


I don't think you should trust me to announce the results. ; )


----------



## CCCXXIX

Promethea said:


> I don't think you should trust me to announce the results. ; )


Nah it's cool, even if you were gonna lie it would only make me feel better. Shit's like a tic-tac.


----------



## Aha

CCCXXIX said:


> are you going to be the official "ruler"? Because I'm ready to enter the bathroom stall whenever.


 @Promethea Whatever he says, it is he who started this train of flood. With this:



CCCXXIX said:


> ENTPs: They're just big goofballs. They're intellect is easily steamrolled by opening up a few doors in the realm of possibilities. They want to think they have some special way of thinking, and once you show them how simplistic it is they shut down.


 @CCCXXIX ENTJ crybaby?


----------



## Promethea

CCCXXIX said:


> Nah it's cool, even if you were gonna lie it would only make me feel better. Shit's like a tic-tac.


At least that opens doors for the use of other orifices that are usually off limits, like the ear hole.


----------



## Promethea

Aha said:


> @Promethea Whatever he says, it is he who started this train of flood. With this:
> 
> 
> @CCCXXIX ENTJ crybaby?


I don't think entps think in a simplistic way. Of course there are both smart entps, and stupid entps, but the smart ones have a penchant for saying some really brilliant things. And they're entertaining. A lot of their ideas aren't that useful in reality, but its more fun than listening to something mundane.


----------



## OkWhat

CCCXXIX said:


> INTJs: Never as smart as they think they are. More laughable than anything. They're too rigid to be intimidating. And since I'm not intimidated by stares and glares, yeah. They're also kind of slow, they need a lot of time to process.
> 
> INTPs: It's easy to get them lost on an internal train of thought, so no.
> 
> ENTPs: They're just big goofballs. They're intellect is easily steamrolled by opening up a few doors in the realm of possibilities. They want to think they have some special way of thinking, and once you show them how simplistic it is they shut down.
> 
> ENTJs: Nope, not intimidating at all. They come in with a steamroller, but my steamroller is bigger.
> 
> It's hard to have a most intimidating when everyone looks like sheep.


Please obi wan, enlighten me on how my intellect is simplistic using your steamroller.


----------



## CCCXXIX

OkWhat said:


> Please obi wan, enlighten me on how my intellect is simplistic using your steamroller.


Well the fact you just asked that is a start.


----------



## OkWhat

CCCXXIX said:


> Well the fact you just asked that question is a start.


It wasn't a question, you failed. It was a sarcastic statement, notice the absence of a question mark.


----------



## Forever Jung

Since when has being 'intimidating' been a good quality anyway? It's not the same as respect you know.

Moreover, since when can you accurately classify great swathes of people as 'goofballs' etc? 
Do you know what the dictionary defines a 'goofball' as? A naive or stupid person. Extremely incompetent,eccentric or silly.
Stupidity and competence - measurable through a _personality_ theory? 

Some of the conclusions drawn don't stand up to any kind of scrutiny, anybody could be intimidating. I don't even want to call some posts here 'conclusions' - they're statements of opinion, presented as facts and then used to prove something that can't be proven. If you're going to talk about how all XXXX's are something, add a disclaimer first or there's nothing 'rational' about it.
And trolling or not - If you haven't got anything intelligent or constructive to say, don't bother.

*My Personal Opinion*
(Ooh a disclaimer)


----------



## aendern

Forever Jung said:


> Since when has being 'intimidating' been a good quality anyway? It's not the same as respect you know.
> 
> Moreover, since when can you accurately classify great swathes of people as 'goofballs' etc?
> Do you know what the dictionary defines a 'goofball' as? A naive or stupid person. Extremely incompetent,eccentric or silly.
> Stupidity and competence - measurable through a _personality_ theory?
> 
> Some of the conclusions drawn don't stand up to any kind of scrutiny, anybody could be intimidating. I don't even want to call some posts here 'conclusions' - they're statements of opinion, presented as facts and then used to prove something that can't be proven. If you're going to talk about how all XXXX's are something, add a disclaimer first or there's nothing 'rational' about it.
> And trolling or not - If you haven't got anything intelligent or constructive to say, don't bother.
> 
> *My Personal Opinion*
> (Ooh a disclaimer)


I thought it was obvious that this was an opinion-based discussion ¯\_(⊙_⊙)_/¯

p.s. I don't recall anyone saying that intimidating was a good quality.

p.p.s. that definition is not the modern, commonly-used definition. A goofball is a silly, fun-loving person. A flippant, non-serious person.


----------



## Forever Jung

emberfly said:


> I thought it was obvious that this was an opinion-based discussion ¯\_(⊙_⊙)_/¯
> 
> p.s. I don't recall anyone saying that intimidating was a good quality.
> 
> p.p.s. that definition is not the modern, commonly-used definition. A goofball is a silly, fun-loving person. A flippant, non-serious person.


I know, it usually goes without saying that people only offer their own opinions but sometimes people do seem to present these opinions as if they were _facts_ and that can be irritating (for me) because it makes threads hard to read sometimes. 

They disintegrate into dick-swinging contests and every time I read about a self-proclaimed 'genius, bad ass, machine' or whatever - I wonder what they've actually done with their lives to justify such claims and feel it detracts somewhat from the actual conversation.

p.s Maybe not. (But a lot of people want their own types to be the most intimidating!)

p.p.s. Define it however you want - It's still hard to see how that could be accurate for all ENTP's. Unless I don't understand mbti as well as I should (and do feel free to tell me so) the cognitive functions relate to how we receive and process information - is there a flippant way of doing this? 

p.p.p.s ('cause I can) I should add that I'm not actually angry  - my first post seems to have come out more rant-y than I intended!


----------



## ae1905

Forever Jung said:


> Since when has being 'intimidating' been a good quality anyway? It's not the same as respect you know.


The OP didn't ask about respect. The OP didn't ask if _intimidating_ is a good or bad thing. 



> Moreover, since when can you accurately classify great swathes of people as 'goofballs' etc?


Isn't "classifying great swathes of people" what typing is about? 



> Do you know what the dictionary defines a 'goofball' as? A naive or stupid person. Extremely incompetent,eccentric or silly.
> Stupidity and competence - measurable through a _personality_ theory?


What group are you talking about? And who called them "goofballs"?



> Some of the conclusions drawn don't stand up to any kind of scrutiny, anybody could be intimidating.


I've tried to define _intimidation_ to mean _intellectual_ intimidation since the question is about NTs. What do _you_ mean by it? And why do you think any NT can be equally intimidating?



> I don't even want to call some posts here 'conclusions' - they're statements of opinion, presented as facts and then used to prove something that can't be proven. If you're going to talk about how all XXXX's are something, add a disclaimer first or there's nothing 'rational' about it. And trolling or not - If you haven't got anything intelligent or constructive to say, don't bother.


MBTI itself makes generalisations about type. This thread is largely personal observations and some speculation based on MBTI theory, no different, really, than many other threads on this site.


----------



## EclecticAgenda

stiletto said:


> I disagree. ENTPs' 36 different ways seem scattered, lack focus, and generally aimless from an ENTJ's perspective. Take that on with a trolling, care-free attitude, and that's a flaky type of person I would not want in my inner circle.


The ENTJ disagrees (surprise, surprise) and over-exaggerates a few generalizations to help validate his point while having the audacity to say I'M trolling.

Shit, all I do is solve problems, erry day, son.

All you do is tell people what to do.

Blech. The illusion of power.

ENTJs...

They're like INTJs... but lame.


----------



## stiletto

EclecticAgenda said:


> The ENTJ disagrees (surprise, surprise) and over-exaggerates a few generalizations to help validate his point while having the audacity to say I'M trolling.
> 
> Shit, all I do is solve problems, erry day, son.
> 
> All you do is tell people what to do.
> 
> Blech. The illusion of power.
> 
> ENTJs...
> 
> They're like INTJs... but lame.


Correct use of pronouns! "Over-exaggerates"? Brilliant wordsmithing! 
Didn't take a single thing personally! You're not being hypocritical at all! You're post was objective and genius! 










Ha! I didn't have to do a thing!!


----------



## EclecticAgenda

stiletto said:


> Correct use of pronouns! "Over-exaggerates"? Brilliant wordsmithing!
> Didn't take a single thing personally! You're not being hypocritical at all! You're post was objective and genius!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ha! I didn't have to do a thing!!


If I didn't have a good argument, I'd also choose to point out arbitrary grammar mistakes.


----------



## SweetPickles

Forever Jung said:


> Since when has being 'intimidating' been a good quality anyway? It's not the same as respect you know.
> 
> Moreover, since when can you accurately classify great swathes of people as 'goofballs' etc?
> Do you know what the dictionary defines a 'goofball' as? A naive or stupid person. Extremely incompetent,eccentric or silly.
> Stupidity and competence - measurable through a _personality_ theory?
> 
> Some of the conclusions drawn don't stand up to any kind of scrutiny, anybody could be intimidating. I don't even want to call some posts here 'conclusions' - they're statements of opinion, presented as facts and then used to prove something that can't be proven. If you're going to talk about how all XXXX's are something, add a disclaimer first or there's nothing 'rational' about it.
> And trolling or not - If you haven't got anything intelligent or constructive to say, don't bother.
> 
> *My Personal Opinion*
> (Ooh a disclaimer)


To be fair, I consider most NTs intimidating in some way. I also don't consider being "intimidating" as an insult, especially if it's effortless coming from the NT. I'm not intimidating at all, and sometimes wish I was.

ENTPs intimidate me because they are fast thinkers, charming, witty and of course intelligent. If they dislike you, they can make you feel like an idiot. Even if they like you they can make you feel like an idiot for fun .
INTPs because they can debate you on most everything, and I mean everything. They appear shy, and I sometimes mistake them for INFPs until they really start to talk which usually makes me feel like an idiot in comparison.
INTJs they are just wise, they can intimidate you without words, they have a certain aura. Usually extremely thoughtful before they talk and when they do...again I feel like I moron.
ENTJs Hello! You know when one walks into a room. They admire proficiency and if they even notice you (on a personal level) it's flattering. Once again, usually quite intelligent. They also make you want to work hard.

So there you go, all NT's can be pretty intimidating to me anyway, at first .

INTJs and ENTJs usually have the same affect on me except I find ENTJs easier to talk to for some reason. They seem more open.


----------



## stiletto

EclecticAgenda said:


> If I didn't have a good argument, I'd also choose to point out arbitrary grammar mistakes.


You called that an "argument"? 










All you did was make generalizations yourself ROFL. What happened to being perceptive?
I guess you can't have all your functions well developed.

Do better next time hun. :laughing:

Back to the topic:

INTPs on the other hand, seem to have a genuine curiosity for learning and an attitude of expanding insight without the childish flourish of their E counterparts, which is imo, an admirable trait. Stick a J there instead of a P, then you have a brooding genius. A combination worth feeling "intimidated" by.


----------



## jehosafats

rogue350 said:


> One would assume that the ENTJ would be the most intimidating. They're given that commander stereotype and I would assume that extroverted people are often more intimidating but I could be wrong. Are perceived usually perceived as intimidating. I would think that judgers would get that designation.
> 
> Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk


A well developed ENTJ can be very intimidating. But poorly developed ENTJs are totally transparent. They often lack the intellectual acuity to lead as they should. They spiral down this void of mediocrity where just any schmoe off the street could lead them into oblivion.


----------



## Chthonic

If we're going by personal experience, the only other NT I've met IRL is one of my old teachers, an INTJ. He was legitimately the only teacher I'd ever _wanted_ to impress. Despite some personality conflicts (he was _way_ too judgmental of people who don't meet his exact standards of competence; it drove me up the wall), he was extremely intelligent and the only teacher who was able to explain things in a way that actually felt engaging. I honestly preferred his lectures to just reading the textbook (which is what I normally do).

In theory, probably ENTJ. Te-doms are simultaneously exhausting and admirable.

(XNTPs could be intimidating, but I've had a much easier time dealing with the Ne-doms and Ti-doms I've met. Who knows, though?)


----------



## bellybutton

ENTJ 8w7

definitely. Super dominating and aggressive.


----------



## Forever Jung

ae1905 said:


> The OP didn't ask about respect. The OP didn't ask if _intimidating_ is a good or bad thing.
> 
> Indeed they didn't. I was stating my own opinion that I consider respect more desirable than intimidation.
> 
> 
> 
> Isn't "classifying great swathes of people" what typing is about?
> 
> Personally, I don't use it for that, rather for better understanding myself and those I know well.
> 
> I don't think it actually works very well when applied to large numbers of people. If you took all the people in the world who would test as INTP I think the variation would be too large to prove any definitive personality traits existed - I believe that the cognitive fuctions could manifest themselves in several different ways - making it hard to say that all or even most of a certain type are say 'shy' 'clever' 'patient' etc.
> 
> 
> What group are you talking about? And who called them "goofballs"?
> 
> ENTPs and on earlier pages.
> 
> 
> I've tried to define _intimidation_ to mean _intellectual_ intimidation since the question is about NTs. What do _you_ mean by it? And why do you think any NT can be equally intimidating?
> 
> Well to me it's not so much to do with the 'intimidating' person, but the personality of the person who sees them that way. If you are a disorganized and messy person - that might cause you to view super-organised people as intimidating. If you're a quiet and self-conscious person, you might view loud and uninhibited people as intimidating instead.
> 
> Generally,I think that when people exhibit behavior that we don't understand or that clashes with our own personality then that can be intimidating. (Although, being better than us at something we want to be good at might also be intimidating - in the more positive sense) Although I couldn't say why without just speculating.
> 
> This is why I think any NT could be seen as intimidating anyway, it all depends on who's watching.  An INFP might find an ESTP intimidating and an ESTP could find an INTJ intimidating..
> 
> MBTI itself makes generalisations about type. This thread is largely personal observations and some speculation based on MBTI theory, no different, really, than many other threads on this site.


True, however MBTI does not measure intelligence or skill - which was the only point I was making really.


----------



## Negativity Bias

I know a 8w7 ENTJ and he and I often have incredibly fierce and angry arguments with each other. Everyone around us is usually mortified but to us we are having a fun time. Ha.


----------



## ae1905

Forever Jung said:


> Personally, I don't use it for that, rather for better understanding myself and those I know well.
> 
> I don't think it actually works very well when applied to large numbers of people. If you took all the people in the world who would test as INTP I think the variation would be too large to *prove any definitive personality traits* existed - I believe that the cognitive fuctions could manifest themselves in several different ways - making it hard to say that all or even most of a certain type are say 'shy' 'clever' 'patient' etc.


I wasn't talking about "shy" or "clever" or any other traits. I was talking about _cognitive functions_. INTPs share a preference for using Ti over any other functions, with Ne somewhere not far behind. It was these cognitive preferences that I invoked to argue INTPs would be the most formidable in debate, not any traits. In fact, I dismissed commonly-perceived traits like ENTJs' bluntness, ENTPs' volubility, and INTJs' death stare as irrelevant.



> ENTPs and on earlier pages.


So looking at ENTPs' cognitive functions, they prefer to use Ne, with Ti somewhere not far behind. Because their perceptions exceed their predilection for properly processing them, they will be prone to believing and--because they are extroverts--_espousing_ many wrongheaded ideas. In fact, they enjoy flaunting their ideas and consider it a strength of their personality. But while they may amuse themselves and others in this way, in a debate, their failure to properly vett their ideas would be exposed.



> Well to me it's not so much to do with the 'intimidating' person, but the personality of the person who sees them that way. If you are a disorganized and messy person - that might cause you to view super-organised people as intimidating. If you're a quiet and self-conscious person, you might view loud and uninhibited people as intimidating instead. Generally,I think that when people exhibit behavior that we don't understand or that clashes with our own personality then that can be intimidating. (Although, *being better than us at something we want to be good at might also be intimidating* - in the more positive sense) Although I couldn't say why without just speculating.


So you might be intimidated by someone who thought more clearly and had a better understanding than you, particularly if you find yourself in a debate with him. You agree with me.



> This is why I think any NT could be seen as intimidating anyway, it all depends on who's watching.  An INFP might find an ESTP intimidating and an ESTP could find an INTJ intimidating..


So you agree that thinking can be intimidating. So thinking more closely and deeply--ie, being a better thinker--should be more intimidating, right? And which type is most likely to do this?


----------



## Scelerat

EclecticAgenda said:


> ENTJs are always annoyed by us. We too easily remind them that they don't have it all figured out while showing them that there are 36 different ways of doing any one thing... like irritating an ENTJ, (ESxJs are also easily annoyable.)
> 
> Looooove Yoooouuu.
> 
> <3


There are hundreds of ways of doing anything, but only 1 most efficient way of doing anything. You could build a house using only duct tape, Styrofoam and baby formula, but as the result would be inefficient use of time, resources and ingenuity, it's pointless.


----------



## EclecticAgenda

Scelerat said:


> There are hundreds of ways of doing anything, but only 1 most efficient way of doing anything. You could build a house using only duct tape, Styrofoam and baby formula, but as the result would be inefficient use of time, resources and ingenuity, it's pointless.


Sure, I agree, but context, resources (and all its countless definitions) can change which approach is best. Furthermore, you need to have an experimental mindset in order to discover and develop that most efficient way you mentioned. Someone has to invent the standard before people like you quote it.

That someone is likely an ENTP.


----------



## Marble fox

Scelerat said:


> There are hundreds of ways of doing anything, but only 1 most efficient way of doing anything. You could build a house using only duct tape, Styrofoam and baby formula, but as the result would be inefficient use of time, resources and ingenuity, it's pointless.


That's pretty reductionist. You are talking about incompetent people that ignore the basic notions of investigation, not about differences between types.

There is a most efficient way of doing anything, but you have to find it. People use the "trial and error" method if they are trying something new, that means that you'll have to explore a bunch of ideas to know which one is the best one. You just don't get the best idea out of nowhere. It's the "most efficient" one because it has been compared to other ideas. You Js with the "best idea on mind", work with information that has been experimented and validated before thanks to "trial and error" experiments.

And having a "most efficient way" to do something doesn't mean that we can't discover an even better way to do it. Again, you'll need a bunch of people doing brainstorming to reach the most efficient way.


----------



## stiletto

EclecticAgenda said:


> Sure, I agree, but context, resources (and all its countless definitions) can change which approach is best. Furthermore, you need to have an experimental mindset in order to discover and develop that most efficient way you mentioned. Someone has to invent the standard before people like you quote it.
> 
> That someone is likely an ENTP.


I disagree. More likely an INTP LOL. ENTPs are good for blowing hot air while their partners do all the work.


----------



## stiletto

Marble fox said:


> That's pretty reductionist. You are talking about incompetent people that ignore the basic notions of investigation, not about differences between types.
> 
> There is a most efficient way of doing anything, but you have to find it. People use the "trial and error" method if they are trying something new, that means that you'll have to explore a bunch of ideas to know which one is the best one. You just don't get the best idea out of nowhere. It's the "most efficient" one because it has been compared to other ideas. You Js with the "best idea on mind", work with information that has been experimented and validated before thanks to "trial and error" experiments.
> 
> And having a "most efficient way" to do something doesn't mean that we can't discover an even better way to do it. Again, you'll need a bunch of people doing brainstorming to reach the most efficient way.


Beginning with the most efficient way, working backwards, deconstructing things and building back up with trial and error, is still a more efficient and effective method than randomly thrusting one's dick in random directions hoping to strike gold.


----------



## aendern

ENFJs.

Oh you said NTs.

hm...


----------



## Recluse BrainStormer333

Physically: The one who is tall, has big frame and has a low trust face.

Personality wise: It's subjective. Some may find introverts more intimidating as they don't know what to expect from them, others may find loud extroverts more intimidating.


----------



## mangodelic psycho

emberfly said:


> ENFJs.
> 
> Oh you said NTs.
> 
> hm...


ENFJs? Where?? :th_Jttesur:

I can't see an ENTP/INTP being trully intimidating because Fe. We can seem aloof and snobby at times but we're don't have the assertive/agressive vibe that NTJs do. I think INTJs would be the more intimidating between the two though, purely because they don't really care what people say about them, while extroverts always do to some degree.


----------



## stiletto

Elmo said:


> indeed it does. thanks for that one.
> we can survive without the punctuation proof vest.


So let me know when you rephrase your post so I can bother to read it.


----------



## Notus Asphodelus

Vayne said:


> I hate ENTP like i hate me.


Why not? I've always admired them.. from afar.. in the safety of my own home.. near the window. I've always wanted to pick at their brains. Perhaps I could find something enlightening.


----------



## olonny

To me the most intimidating ones are the *INTJs*. They're so calm and confident and wise whenever I'm around them I start speaking and speaking and speaking and then they don't answer back, they simply stare at me and I can't help it but keep on speaking and speaking :laughing: and, as we say in Spanish, 'por la boca muere el pez'. That is to say, if you shut up no one will think you're stupid, but if you open your mouth that's when people will realize you ARE stupid. 



Recluse BrainStormer333 said:


> Physically: The one who is tall, has big frame and has a low trust face.


LOL how does a 'low trust face' look like!?


----------



## Recluse BrainStormer333

olonny said:


> LOL how does a 'low trust face' look like!?


https://socialcapital.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/faceyoucantrust.jpg


----------



## Schubertslieder

I don't believe any NTs intimidate me, being one myself. I like most reasonably mature NTs and get along with them just fine. I also don't get impressed easily either.


----------



## Starless Ubiquity

kitsu said:


> This is so the opposite of my experience with INTP's.
> The ones I know are all what I'd call "polite observers", power is the last word I'd use to describe them (and I find it much better that way)


I think your observation is correct - we are usually the polite observers.. until you violate a major principle or make a mistake that might endanger my projects or the well being or level of knowledge of others. Then hell unleashes and we argue with no regard to personal credentials or feelings.

Most intimidating NT.. Hm.

*ENTP *- only admiration and respect, they would drown me in Ne and I would still scream out for more. It is a masochistic pleasure.
*ENTJ* - they are quite soft on the inside (I like thinking of INTPs as mild and cute on the outside and extremely tough on the inside, and ENTJs really tough on the outside but fluffy, mild and insecure on the inside). Bluntness and directness do not intimidate me and I am quite difficult to offend.
*INTP* - the only other confirmed one I know in person is a great friend of mine, we simply work on the same frequency, difficult to say how she could intimidate me. Once again being direct and stating the truth is not intimidating, but only to be respected
*INTJ *- I guess it would be them.. Clarity of thought and action.. Look into their eyes and you will see that Ni performing an MRI scan of your inner thoughts and feelings.. Look into the eyes of an INTP and you will see a lot of emp_Ti_ness haha..


----------



## Tetsuo Shima

In fiction, ENTJs are usually the intimidating ones. (Anime examples include Makina from Deadman Wonderland, the colonel from Akira, and Light's dad from Death Note.) However, I've known a few INTJs who have served in the military (including my dad), and they're pretty intimidating.


----------



## foodcourtfrenzy

I'm so rarely (if ever ) intimidated that I could never classify a whole group as intimidating. But if I was forced to, it would never be an NT. It would be a hyper-emotional insecure S with a lack of morals/logic and something to prove. Intellectualism is not frightening.


----------



## Elmo

if you can not understand that, even less than what i wrote, you are the one not worth the bother..


----------



## Grandeur

From my experience INTJs are most intimidating, mainly because they project an aura of "I'm smarter than you and I know it" without having to say much - it definitely makes you think twice when entering a debate with one.

I've met two INTPs before, they would always catch me off guard with their nuggets of insight from perspectives I would never even think to consider. The way they tended to pull this off was in a really laid back, non-threatening fashion, it wasn't really intimidating as much as it was just impressive.

Being an ENTJ I probably come across intimidating when i'm self-assured about a topic and am having a debate, where I get really confident and passionate. When I don't feel competent about a subject I'm quite the opposite. I find that some people/types are willing to confidentially argue about things beyond their scope of knowledge, which isn't like me at all.

I haven't had any first hand experience with ENTPs so it's difficult to comment. Based on ENTP figures I know such as Lawrence Krauss they seem very sharp and intimidating though.


----------



## FlaviaGemina

Grandeur said:


> ENTPs


Judging from my observations of real-life interactions between ENTPs and ENTJs, I'd say that ENTPs are easily intimidated by ENTJs (by any TJ type, really). 
ENTJs aren't really intimidated by ENTPs, but they are baffled because ENTPs are the only (or one of the few) type(s) that don't immediately do as the ENTJ tells them and sometimes even argue back. (Ok, I'll admit this is based on only one ENTJ-ENTP pair of colleagues).

The ENTPs I know are way more sensitive to Se than you would imagine. They all look big and scary and scowly and puff themselves up. But when it comes to the violence, cursing, demonstrations of (physical) strength etc. that can be associated with Se, those ENTPs get nearly as frightened as INTPs. Dominant Se is just as bad for them as Fi or Si, but even tert or inf Se can intimidate them a lot more than the XNTJ intended. They can also be so Fi-blind that they get scared of ENTJs or INTJs who like them and want to cooperate or help them.


----------



## HoldenCawffled

Don't know about the most intimidating, but most definitely _not_ INTPs. We're just awkward marshmallows.


----------



## Strelok

Remind me why we're measuring types by how impressed they are by trailer trash demonstrations of violence.


----------



## Val37

_Physically_ intimidating, ESTJ comes to mind. 

But in terms of _stealth_ mode intimidation, my votes go to INTJ and ENTJ. Just from personal experience, INTJs are very adept at sizing people up. Couple this with their strategist-like mentality, and who knows what sort of machinations they can cook up. Uncertain if I've ever met an ENTJ, but I would imagine they could operate under the same modus operandi. Personally, anybody who has the foggiest idea about me I would deem as intimidating. The cards in my hand are for my eyes only.


----------



## FlaviaGemina

@_Val37_
I don't often cook up machinations involving people. There aren't many things in the world that I hate more than manipulating people.
Yes, I am very adept at sizing them up most of the time, but for me that's not often connected to any active kind of goal.
Sizing people up is
a) just how I get to know them. It's a neutral thing... just collecting data.
b) I can use my knowledge to protect myself against manipulators or to stay away from people who I simply wouldn't get along with anyway.

Very often, when I "intimidate" someone I don't even mean it. No kidding, my ENTP boss got intimidated every time I looked at him when we passed each other on the corridor. From my perspective, I was giving him a friendly look to greet him.


----------



## Theobruh

The one INTJ I know is super sweet. I'm rooming with her next semester, because we're pretty similar except for my P.

I personally find types like my former roommate and my mother intimidating... Probably because I don't like being micromanaged and I don't like having everything I've done wrong mentioned when I do something wrong.

I think my mom's ISTJ (she typed as this when she took a test), and my roommate's similar.

Normally I wouldn't mind, but the uncompromising structure and the unwillingness to change their minds makes me nervous.


----------



## Val37

Haha, I meant no offense. On the contrary, actually. Perhaps I should've stated that your machinations could also be used as a defense mechanism, which you've stated above. When a rat is spotted, you will know how to handle one, without even the rat realizing that it was you who dealt the blow. I've personally seen my INTJ cousin operate as such when trying to evade a coworker's schemes. Quite genius, actually. And no INTJs (or any MBTI personality for that matter) are exact carbon copies of each other. So if my original post sounded like a blanket statement, then apologize. But in general, that is how I would deem someone as intimidating.


----------



## adultchildofalieninvaders

ENTJs. They get things done AND THEY TALK ABOUT IT AND EXPECT ME TO MANAGE THE SAME. *flails*

Give me a chill, laid back INTP any day. I have no bloody clue what they're talking about half of the time (special and highly technical or weirdly detailed interests, cough) but they're cool. INTJs get on with things. ENTPs are great to talk with because they don't mind being interrupted. Or interrupting me if I get stuck on a tangent.

I may be facetious here.


----------



## incision

None are intimidating and all can be intimidating, reliant on context.

But I have to admit that not too many people intimidate me since if someone displays ability beyond my own, I view them as people to engage with since they have something they can teach me, especially the wicked smaht!


----------



## tanstaafl28

ENTJ. They sort of take the stance: "I'm in charge."

Give us ENTPs a chance. We're, clever, witty, charming, non-judgemental, and fun loving. We don't feel any need to be intimidating.


----------



## MJC

INTJ-by default-because none of the NT's types are that intimidating to NF's. 

They're more intriguing than intimidating.


----------



## FlaviaGemina

tanstaafl28 said:


> ENTJ. They sort of take the stance: "I'm in charge."
> 
> Give us ENTPs a chance. We're, clever, witty, charming, non-judgemental, and fun loving. We don't feel any need to be intimidating.


Except if they're an Enneagram 8 in a mood, nothing is ever good enough for them ... or rather nobody.. some _things_ might be good enough for them, but people? Not a chance.

Also, ENTPs in general can be judgmental of those whom they perceive as not spontaneous or not fun-loving.


----------



## tanstaafl28

FlaviaGemina said:


> Except if they're an Enneagram 8 in a mood, nothing is ever good enough for them ... or rather nobody.. some _things_ might be good enough for them, but people? Not a chance.


That was my experience with my ex. 



> Also, ENTPs in general can be judgmental of those whom they perceive as not spontaneous or not fun-loving.


No...we won't judge, we just won't associate with such people for long. It isn't personal.


----------



## FlaviaGemina

tanstaafl28 said:


> *That was my experience with my ex. *
> 
> 
> 
> No...we won't judge, we just won't associate with such people for long. It isn't personal.


Yeah, I thought it was more of an Enneagram 8 thing than ENTP, although an E8 ENTP would probably dislike different people for different reasons than an E8 ISTJ.
The E8 ENTP I'm referring to is like this:

ESFP = too studpid and annoying, doesn't intellectualize
female INTJ = nearly perfect, but not ESFP enough; also, not male enough
male INTJ = male enough, but not as good as female INTJ
ENTJ = too bossy, too much Te
ISFP = too much Fi
INTP = not assertive enough, too geeky
ESFJ = too stupid, not geeky enough

Spot a pattern here? LOL


----------



## tanstaafl28

FlaviaGemina said:


> Yeah, I thought it was more of an Enneagram 8 thing than ENTP, although an E8 ENTP would probably dislike different people for different reasons than an E8 ISTJ.
> The E8 ENTP I'm referring to is like this:
> 
> ESFP = too studpid and annoying, doesn't intellectualize
> female INTJ = nearly perfect, but not ESFP enough; also, not male enough
> male INTJ = male enough, but not as good as female INTJ
> ENTJ = too bossy, too much Te
> ISFP = too much Fi
> INTP = not assertive enough, too geeky
> ESFJ = too stupid, not geeky enough
> 
> Spot a pattern here? LOL



Yeah, they sound seriously picky. I can't imagine being such an ENTP, and I have 8 in my tritype.


----------



## FlaviaGemina

tanstaafl28 said:


> Yeah, they sound seriously picky. I can't imagine being such an ENTP, and I have 8 in my tritype.


He's nice enough and easy-going _in the long run_, but he vents these frustrations openly where the people who he is talking about (or people who are similar to the ones he is talking about) can hear him and are likely to take it personally. Basically, he complains about nearly everybody to nearly everybody else in some way, whether it's verbally or through reactions/ facial expressions. So people can probably tell that he'll complain about them next.

Of course we all have to process our relationships and we all find fault with other people. But it's better to do that at home where they can't hear you and then think about whether you can improve things or whether you're not interested enough in them to bother. 

Never mind.


----------



## TheEpicPolymath

INTJ because they may plot world domination.


----------



## Chamondelle

The duo NTJs, except the Sx E7 because they have the air of fun loving. Sadly it is kind of rare.


----------



## 1000BugsNightSky

ENTJs.


----------



## stayinggold

Really depends on the individual. I love ENTP's myself, great company good fun. I haven't meet many people I would outright identify as ENTJs but the INTJs I've meet can be intimidating.


----------



## DeductiveReasoner

An ENTJ woman in high heels and a professional looking skirt and a whip.


...Maybe I'm in the wrong forum for this...


----------



## ENTJess

INTJs.


----------



## WaffleSingSong

INTJ-ENTJ-ENTP-INTP in descending order. ENTJ's are quite openly dominative, but I think INTJs have a more mysterious aura about them, which adds to the intimidation in a way.

ENTPs I've seen can be upfrontal, but I don't think intimidating is a way to describe it. Just coming from my experience as an INTP, I just don't give a fuck to be intimidating in any sort of way. I probably could if I really wanted to though.


----------



## Schubertslieder

I am INTJ, and I am not intimidated by any type. 

Also, I do not get easily impressed by other types either.


----------



## lunagattina

ENTJs. 

I like staying with other INTPs, they are not intimidating at all and I like ENTPs too. My dad was one of them and he was the only one who really understood me in my family, I found ENTPs funny e charming. 
INTJs... I don't know, actually I think that many of them are quite sexy. And I'm not intimidated by introverse people usually.


----------



## Hellblazer

Trust me when I say, it is me. No, I don't have a knife in my hand. Do you trust me yet ?


----------



## The Hatter

I find XNTJs absolutely terrifying. 

Me: the BDSM community was protesting fifty shades of grey..
INTJ: *stare*
Me: It's amusing though, I wonder what the author will say..
INTJ: *stare*
Me:...
INTJ:...
Me:...
INTJ:...
Me: I'm sorry for my measly existence and I shall now beg for mercy on my ignorant soul.


----------



## Recluse BrainStormer333

DeductiveReasoner said:


> An ENTJ woman in high heels and a professional looking skirt and a whip.
> 
> 
> ...Maybe I'm in the wrong forum for this...


Damn. Not intimidating, but interesting. Would love to take her whip, bind her hands with it and bend her over to show her who's the boss. I'm sure she won't mind in the end.


----------



## DeductiveReasoner

Recluse BrainStormer333 said:


> Damn. Not intimidating, but interesting. Would love to take her whip, bind her hands with it and bend her over to show her who's the boss. I'm sure she won't mind in the end.


ok you're _definitely_ in the wrong forum for this


----------



## Scarlet_Heart

INTJ

As an ENTP I find them the hardest to read because while they are very smart, they are often quiet and very serious. While intimidating, I find INTJs quite attractive and married one. I like a challenge I guess.


----------



## ArBell

ENTJs are only intimidating to F types.
I believe that INTJ are more intimidating in general, even to ENTJs.
ENTJs are more social and more open, so around them, people tend to be themselves more. On the other hand, face to an INTJ, people feel an unexplainable 'chill', they know INTJs are secretly judging them (more than ENTJs, or at least ENTJs conceal it better) and they feel very intimidated by the 'aura' of intellect around INTJs...

Edit 2: It's like the common conception of, "Beware of the quiet ones".


----------



## Sophia1

ArBell said:


> ENTJs are only intimidating to F types.
> I believe that INTJ are more intimidating in general, even to ENTJs.
> ENTJs are more social and more open, so around them, people tend to be themselves more. On the other hand, face to an INTJ, people feel an unexplainable 'chill', they know INTJs are secretly judging them (more than ENTJs, or at least ENTJs conceal it better) and they feel very intimidated by the 'aura' of intellect around INTJs...
> 
> Edit 2: It's like the common conception of, "Beware of the quiet ones".


Exactly. ENTJs are only the most intimidating to the F types ... Because they can be explosive where INTJs emotions aren't worn on their sleeves. ENTJs may be intimidating to many types but the one that intimidates the ENTJ most I think are INTJs. 
This is exactly why I find INTJs the most intimidating and most interesting. Not being able to read them, the introspectiveness, the calmness, the directness. Its exhilarating and scary because you know they are extremely intelligent and Can match you but choose to or not to depending on the situation. Love INTJs for this reason.


----------



## planetanarchy

SweetPickles said:


> I think *ENTP* because they are usually very witty and intelligent. When I was younger I would break off relations with them because I was scared of being hurt. They come across as players.
> 
> My grandfather was an *INTJ* and you should have seen how everyone in my family would try to impress him. I never did that, I was always myself and I think he liked that. Although I worked with an INTJ who was VERY INTIMIDATING, he made me cry...seriously. It wasn't because of anything he said, I just knew I disappointed him. I wanted to impress him and failed miserably. Not only did I cry, right in front of him and other staff I proclaimed "I AM NOT WORKING WITH THAT MAN ANYMORE!!". Good Lord /face palm, no I wasn't fired. He was a doctor and I was a nurse working together on a case. My stupid inappropriate (and unprofessional) emotions caused sincere puzzlement to him. God that was embarrassing. I generally like the INTJs on the forum, I like their advice they make me feel like I am a hobbit talking to Gandalf LOL. Not the younger INTJs, they are still in their...phase.
> 
> Married to an *ENTJ* saw his inner fuzzy immediately. When he is at work I have witnessed him in action, he seems like such an ass LOL and people are running around doing what he says. I told him once that he sounded like a dickhead at work, he was so surprised. I swear he has no idea how brash he can come across.
> 
> Oh *INTPs* I like you guys . Not intimidating and usually very entertaining in a good way. I think we perceive things in a similar way but act so different.
> 
> Okay maybe *INTJs* are the most intimidating, especially the less developed ones that carry the "you are stupid, not worthy of life" air around them. The more in touch their Fe, the better .


<3


----------



## planetanarchy

I'm not easy to intimidate. So I'm thinking really hard. The people who have scared me in any way, I don't have their type. I've always been really into intj's, clicked well with enfps, really many types. Wait, wait... I'm getting a memory. Yes, I remember now, male INFJ's that has some kind of romantic interest in me, and actually blackmailed me (online characters, never met them in person). A lot of these INFJ men were actually really crazy. (no offense to anyone, I never met them off a board, just had them take mbti tests for me) They were abusive and controlling and fast moving in a way that I could never stomach or be with, or feel safe with. But then I'm not answering the NT question. 

If I'm attracted to an INTJ, I might feel disarmed out of that attraction and want to get along and put down my swords- but intimidation is not a feeling I get. If I feel intimidated the attraction goes right out the window. I have yet to feel intimidated by entj's. (at least as far as the ones I knew were definitely entj's) I have not intereacted with intp's to know, though there were a few times I felt pretty icky reading some INTP stuff, to me disgust is the closet thing I have to fear, so I'm going to go with that one, INTP.


----------



## Strelok

planetanarchy said:


> I have not intereacted with intp's to know, though there were a few times I felt pretty icky reading some INTP stuff, to me disgust is the closet thing I have to fear, so I'm going to go with that one, INTP.


What did you read?


----------



## Kebachi

DeductiveReasoner said:


> ok you're _definitely_ in the wrong forum for this


Dang, I thought it was hot.


N E ways, I'd say that underdeveloped INTJ's intimidate me the most. The well developed ones who have a decent hold of their Fi are actually really engaging and passionate, but the ones who have underdeveloped feeling sides kind've disturb me with how completely inconsiderate and uncaring they can come across. My husband's brother has done some things that truly shock me. 

I've met many an ENTJ in my life, and not a one of them come across as cold as INTJ's come across. In fact, all of the ENTJ's I've met have that warm gooey center. Even my old boss, who used to make many of my fellow co-workers cry, was pretty delicate in some ways beneath the exterior. It just seems so much more obvious with them than with INTJ's, I'm not sure why that is considering ENTJ's Fi is inferior. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

xNTP's are just awesome, flat out. They're my favorite NT's because they're so informative, helpful and open. They're very logical yet also socially considerate. I think I've probably just had more good luck with these types, I seem to run into very healthy and developed ENTP's and INTP's. My ENTP husband has also been a wonderful influence on me. I rank INTP higher in the intimidation department simply because they sometimes have an air of: "I want to be alone with my thoughts, don't bother me right now", whereas ENTP's have never been difficult for me to approach or interact with.

So in order: INTJ, ENTJ, INTP, ENTP


----------



## Dashing

Strelok said:


> What did you read?


Damnit Strelok have you been putting sexy stories online again?!


----------



## planetanarchy

Strelok said:


> What did you read?


things they said about pedophelia, sex, and other things with almost sickening coldness


----------



## planetanarchy

@Kebachi I can get chillingly cold and silent and cruel when I feel disrespected- and that's usually a bad sign for whoever is on the other end, because If I'm pissed about something you'll hear it, that means I still have hope something can be rectified- if I'm silent on something or seem to not budge on something, I have already come to the conclusion that there is something I don't think the other person will understand or change their stance in regards to me. Respect about my person and what I already know about myself and being taken at face value is a big deal, even if I don't know someone well. I'm just more curt then ,rather than open or warm. ENTJ's can play both animals and look like intj's too- which is why many entj's mistype themselves as intj's. Many consider us the most "introverted" of the extroverts because we actually do switch the intutive functions, that I just can't remember what it's called right now. My experience with Intj's IRL, never felt intimidated by them, but they also have this coldness of " yeah you won't get it" or " since I can't control you/this I'm not going to bother" especially when it's intj men in relation to women they interact with- so I think this is why they might seem more intimidating to others. It doesnt intimidate me because I get it internally. We fear what we don't understand right? So I'm hoping to try to understand intp dudes more. I signed up for this forum a few years ago but never really read it or posted- someone actually told me to come on here to "talk to all the lonely intp guys, they'll love you and they're looking to talk to entj women". He actually said that, and I actually obliged. *facepalm* I did not find this yet (sorry I'm not so great with the search functions)


----------



## castigat

None of the above.

I think I'd be easier 'intimidated' (i.e. coerced) by (unhealthy) NF's than NT's—but that's because I am, currently, a walking carpet for emotional manipulation. So, I avoid people that I screen as being likely to use that kind of bullshit to get what they want. In other words, people don't intimidate me so much as I intimidate myself. I sound like a pansy, lmfao.

Really though, intimidation tactics just piss me off.


----------



## Jazer Strozier

wow I always thought people cried around me because I was sensitive and I could feel their pain and understand them. some people may be crying because they are intimidated by me. I will say please don't take the quietness of an introvert personally actually they are being quite as a form of protection so they won't get hurt they are being serious as a form of protection. People like to run over introverts and they hold things in so as not to slap somebody across the head. I am sure your manager doctor was being intimidating because he didn't want to mess up on the job not towards you personally. def try your hardest to be yourself.


----------



## Goliath

ENTJ. That's my girlfriend's father, too. Very scary lion-man hybrid.


----------



## ConspiracyTheory

At first glance ENTJs are intimidating. But after knowing them I realize we think very similar and they are harmless as long as you exhibit competence.

I find INTJs the most intimidating. They do well in the military because of their love for structure. Structure intimidates me. Structure implies acceptance of authority even at the expense of reason. I don't accept authority, I accept only what makes sense. This means scientific authority too. They value what achieves results, even if those results are ultimately meaningless in the big picture.

Some INTJs have an inability to accept that they don't know all the answers. INTJs seem to not know that they DONT know. Purely external structure dismisses the internal structure. They love science, and ignore the psyche.

They can't be argued with because their need for tied ends causes a closed mind.

In conclusion, they are intimidating because I don't think their functions allow for an open mind, but they are intelligent enough to persuade others with their opinions even if they aren't entirely correct.


----------



## Jamie.Ether

imo, INTJ's. No contest.
NTP's are too silly and unfocused to be intimidating.
ENTJ's can be obnoxious, but not intimidating.


----------



## ENTJess

INTPs.


----------



## Strelok

ENTJess said:


> INTPs.


But why?


----------



## ENTJess

Strelok said:


> But why?


I've known a couple of people who are INTPs and both have bad tempers. I've seen one get mad at one of her co-workers and waited until no one else was around for her to verbally attack him. It was crazy, but kind of funny at the same time because he did deserve it.


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