# Could Ne and ADHD be the same?



## boblikesoup (Nov 26, 2011)

I've been paying close attention to ADHD and its relation to Ne over the last few years. I've noticed there is a massively disproportionate number of primary/secondary Ne users and ADHD. Also that people who have ADHD (such as myself) who aren't main Ne users tend to have very strong Ne anyways (as shown on function tests and behavioral traits).

Thoughts?


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## SpaceMan (Dec 11, 2014)

No. Trust me, no.

Correlation does not mean causation.


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## Kynx (Feb 6, 2012)

No, because ADHD interferes with functioning and development. There are similarities but there is also symptoms that aren't typical of Ne characteristics.


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## ECM (Apr 8, 2015)

Interestingly I know a few people who think it is. I know an ENTP who is diagnosed with ADHD and feels it's BS and says it's just an Ne dom thing. I myself as an Ne dom also have ADHD traits all over me. Same with many intuitiveness being diagnosed with things like autism too (Such as a few INTPs I have noticed). These people always say "It may be a diagnosed condition, but it's part of my personality still" 

Looking at statistics this article is very interesting; 

Is it ADHD or Creative Personality Type? | Ariane Benefit, M.S.Ed

An interesting read as I have heard 'a lot' of debates and ideas regarding those who study and follow Carl Jung's and Myers Briggs psychology works that ADD/ADHD might not be a medical disorder but a simply personalty type or cognitive stacking that the medical industry has simply labelled a mental disorder. I mean, just because one develops slower than another or develops differently doesn't have to mean something is wrong with them, it's just different. Me having this exact issue in regards to having both "ADHD symptoms" and my Myers Briggs cognitive stacking being "ENFP", which happens to be one the personality types most commonly if not 'the most' commonly diagnosed for ADHD along with the other mentioned types .

The only other theory is that ADHD "is" some kind of disorder, but only people with certain cognitive function orders and stackings develop it, having those natural personality traits overly augmented giving way to the condition.

This is the ADHD diagnosed ENTP I spoke about, he made some videos on the subject, lengthy, but if they interest you, part 1 starts here; 






I feel a perfect quote to go with this whole issue is one on autism (though I'm not saying it's "not" some sort of disorder since it does affect people's lives and childhoods in drastic ways like sensitivity to things, panic, paranoia etc, which does lead to the interesting possibility that certain traits of autism may not be a "disorder" but an intuitive personality type with a disorder giving way to those aforementioned things "autistics" suffer with; ie the panic, sensitive sensory processing etc "combined" with a certain MBTI type = autism?), but it makes the same point, a friend who has autism put this on his wall once; 










So, with this view in mind, just because one's development is different, slower or quicker than anothers, doesn't make it wrong or an "error", it's just a "different operating system". Which is possibly what ADHD simply is, just that the world we live in, makes it harder for certain personality types to function efficiently since we live in a cookie cutter world. So ADHD or "Ne dom" personalities are a disorder in terms of the "world paradigm". Anyone who cannot fit into or function in this set up paradigm is simply considered "disabled" in accordance to this paradigm.

Take a clock with gears, then try to place a misshaped gear in there, the clock will go crazy and spit out the gear or just wont work because that clock is set up to only use certain gears. Put the different shaped gear into a clock that accepts it, and that gear is no longer considered misshaped, but correct.

But again, as I said, ADHD could really be a disorder, just that certain types get it due to function stack and then something in development goes "blagh" and the combination of MBTI stacking and that "blagh" leads to a "disorder" in accordance to it, which is why certain personality types may show a statistic pattern in what disorders they seem to get the most.


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## Kynx (Feb 6, 2012)

EccentricM said:


> Interestingly I know a few people who think it is. I know an ENTP who is diagnosed with ADHD and feels it's BS and says it's just an Ne dom thing. I myself as an Ne dom also have ADHD traits all over me. Same with many intuitiveness being diagnosed with things like autism too (Such as a few INTPs I have noticed). These people always say "It may be a diagnosed condition, but it's part of my personality still"
> 
> Looking at statistics this article is very interesting;
> 
> ...


Another explanation is that those with ADHD often mistype as Ne doms because the symptoms overshadow their type.


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## ECM (Apr 8, 2015)

Neverontime said:


> Another explanation is that those with ADHD often mistype as Ne doms because the symptoms overshadow their type.


That's possible also. But the best way to determine that is to actually examine their processing and intellectual ability. If it was just that ADHD overshadowing mbti, they would not have the personality/processing traits of another MBTI, they would just be very restless and all over the place, unable to focus, but not in a way that was "cognitive" I feel. They would still process in accordance to their mbti stacks, but would struggle to do so because of the ADHD getting in the way, but most with ADHD tend to be of a "creative/intuitive personality", which would not happen if it was just ADHD overshadowing mbti.


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## Kynx (Feb 6, 2012)

EccentricM said:


> That's possible also. But the best way to determine that is to actually examine their processing and intellectual ability. If it was just that ADHD overshadowing mbti, they would not have the personality/processing traits of another MBTI, they would just be very restless and all over the place, unable to focus, but not in a way that was "cognitive" I feel. They would still process in accordance to their mbti stacks, but would struggle to do so because of the ADHD getting in the way, but most with ADHD tend to be of a "creative/intuitive personality", which would not happen if it was just ADHD overshadowing mbti.


It would be difficult to determine without studying people closely, I agree.
Another factor to consider is that there are three times more males than females diagnosed with adhd. There aren't three times more males than females typed as intuitives, it's much closer to equal.


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## ECM (Apr 8, 2015)

Neverontime said:


> It would be difficult to determine without studying people closely, I agree.
> Another factor to consider is that there are three times more males than females diagnosed with adhd. There aren't three times more males than females typed as intuitives, it's much closer to equal.


But do intuitive males and females behave differently? If so, perhaps the condition is measured by male intuitive traits. Which then leads to more investigating; Are most women with ADHD tomboyish?


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## Shiver (Nov 10, 2016)

When put through the meat grinder of social expectations, of course males and females will behave differently...but this is also something to which we compare traits of ADHD to begin with. You'd have to begin with something to measure - is there deviation?


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## Kynx (Feb 6, 2012)

EccentricM said:


> But do intuitive males and females behave differently? If so, perhaps the condition is measured by male intuitive traits. Which then leads to more investigating; Are most women with ADHD tomboyish?


That wouldn't reflect the statistics presented in the article though. The 12% Ne types is approx half males and half females, but the 12% adhd is not.


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## ECM (Apr 8, 2015)

Neverontime said:


> That wouldn't reflect the statistics presented in the article though. The 12% Ne types is approx half males and half females, but the 12% adhd is not.


Hmmm


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## Stellafera (Jan 19, 2015)

As a Ni-dom with ADD, hell no. 

It's not a "differently functioning" kind of thing for me, it's a _disorder_. It's having terrible impulse control, little ability to focus when you WANT to, and general obnoxiousness/airheadness. 

I'm thrilled that it's one that is fixed (relatively) with medication. It's a lot harder for people with stuff like depression and bipolar.


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## TrailMix (Apr 27, 2011)

I'm an Ni dom with ADHD but also have an unusually strong Se and have always associated my hyperactivity/easy distraction with it either requiring more or less stimulation to allow my brain to work "properly". If I keep myself physically stimulated in some way (tapping a foot, biting my nails, picking at something, etc.), it is easier for me to focus on what I'm doing. 

What if (IF) ADHD is associated with an extroverted perceiving function and Ne is essentially being distracted by ones own mind whereas Se is more distracted by the environment? I dunno haha

I have a few very successful friends who have also been diagnosed with ADHD (I feel like we tend to gravitate towards each other), most of them unmedicated, and who have just found efficient ways around the disorder or who have learned to use their unique brain to their advantage. I've always felt that its not a disorder per say, but simply a disorder because of the way society has formed itself and imposes a singular standard of education/workplace environments on EVERYONE. The more you cater towards the middle of the bell curve, the more outliers you're going to have. So why not pill them and try to force us all into the middle? Most of the people I know with ADHD are extremely bright and were able to function academically a thousand times better once they were able to go about it their own way in the subjects they enjoyed. Most of them are absolutely brilliant in their fields and have very bright careers ahead of them.

In the same way, certain personality types dont learn or work exceptionally well in a "typical" school or office environment which I believe would lead them to be more likely to be diagnosed with SOMETHING. I'd guess that Ne/Ni and Se doms would be most likely to be diagnosed with some kind of ADHD (if we're counting those who do not have some other kind of learning disorder). 

Of course, I have no evidence except for personal observations, so take whatever i wrote with a grain of salt haha


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## perpetuallyreticent (Sep 24, 2014)

There is also a HUGE misdiagnosis in ADD and ADHD, especially in young adults and children.


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## pwowq (Aug 7, 2016)

Long answer to topic question is: Impossible.


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## ai.tran.75 (Feb 26, 2014)

No - ADHD interfere with how one functions and a person concentration , Ne works in my favor and can keep me hyper focus when pair with fi or Te 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## heavydirtysoul (Jan 13, 2012)

Wouldn’t want to jump to conclusions, but to me ADHD could generally be associated with extraverted perception.


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## Quernus (Dec 8, 2011)

They're not the same.

That said, I think ADHD is pathologized well beyond the point it needs to be. That's not to say I think it's "over-diagnosed", or that it shouldn't be treated/taken seriously - just the opposite in fact. I think the resources for handling it are all wrong, a lot of the time. I think it's actually often a very positive thing in the right settings. Problem is that such settings are limited.

The type of creativity/flow/good things about ADHD have a lot in common with the positive attributes of Ne. Environments that could better utilize the strengths of ADHD would also be places where Ne would flourish. But someone could also have just one OR the other and still do well there. Having both at once could make someone powerhouse in certain settings --- BUT only if the ADHD was well-managed. ADHD has limitations as well, that impair functioning in the world as it exists now. I think the ADHD could actually stifle the strengths/limit the ultimate usefulness of Ne, when not treated properly (like instead of being able to channel the Ne-like creativity, the ADHD scatters it all too much and renders it less effective).

Hence the importance to better understand ADHD as a neurological condition independent of personality type.

source: obsession with/education/work experience in psychology, especially clinical and abnormal psychology, as well as an obsession with typology. And also I have both ADHD and strong Ne


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## ferroequinologist (Jul 27, 2012)

I recommend reading this site. This guy has spent his entire career dealing with problem children. He gives a few examples and their stories. I think he's trustworthy. He's a Keirsian, but don't let that get in your way. 

In any case, it's not Ne according to him (and Keirsey), but Se that is behind these misdiagnoses. Also, the problem isn't the child, but the school system, and I agree. Every kid I knew growing up, who had problems, looking back, was an SP, and prisons are full of mostly SP adults. Something's screwed up here, and it's not the kids. 

https://doctorcima.com/


When I was a kid, these labels didn't exist, and I'm glad, because I would have been labeled ADD, and who knows what my poor mom would have done then!


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

ADHD=neurological, causes difficulty in focus and creates excess energy
Ne=psychological, a style of cognitive reasoning of seeing potential and possibilities

So no. Not everything about the psyche is equivalent.


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## boblikesoup (Nov 26, 2011)

Neverontime said:


> It would be difficult to determine without studying people closely, I agree.
> Another factor to consider is that there are three times more males than females diagnosed with adhd. There aren't three times more males than females typed as intuitives, it's much closer to equal.


Just read a couple reports stating it's more like 1.6:1 than 3:1 and "ADHD in adulthood suggests an almost equal balance between men and women." More supporting evidence is ENFP's are the NF type that has the highest ratio of men to women and also the primary Ne type in the quadra. ENTP also has the highest women to men ratio too which is contradictory. May be something there.

@Stellafera I suffer the same symptoms, but wouldn't you say you think faster and more creatively than your peers? And when you compare Ne to the description of ADHD, don't they sound the exact same? It's true ADHD is the most treatable of "every condition", but maybe that's because it's not actually a condition but just a personality trait.

@TrailMix That's an interesting theory about extraverted perception being ADHD. From my observations Se and Ne inattentivity have some similarities but Ne goes closer to the definition of ADHD whereas Se people just get bored easily and need more stimulation. I myself am an ENTJ with exceptionally low Se and I think it's because it's crowded out by Ne ADHD.



Entropic said:


> ADHD=neurological, causes difficulty in focus and creates excess energy
> Ne=psychological, a style of cognitive reasoning of seeing potential and possibilities
> 
> So no. Not everything about the psyche is equivalent.


ADHD people are universally more creative. Ne people have trouble concentrating. They both have the same strengths and weaknesses, so you're leaving out half the definition of each. You're saying 10 != 10 because 1 != 0

A point to throw out too is America is an ADHD nation with the highest rates of diagnosis, but also the most innovation. It makes sense because we're more likely to move, travel, explore, experiment, etc... because the people who started this country and move here are like that. 
*
Ok, so let's put this to the test: are there any people here who are positive they are ENTP or ENFP but do NOT think they might have ADHD?*


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## Max (Aug 14, 2014)

> Could Ne and ADHD be the same?


Could Te and OCD be the same?


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Correlation does not equal causation. 



boblikesoup said:


> ADHD people are universally more creative.


So are bipolar people. So are depressive people. Does it mean that every ADHD person is bipolar and/or depressive? Of course not. Studies show how creativity is strongly linked to our emotional dispositions, especially melancholic states. Creativity is not a result of ADHD in itself and anyone can be creative. You are trying to link a universal human trait to a specific cognitive functioning; the problem is that Ne does not in itself equal creativity. As I wrote, Ne simply equals the cognitive reasoning style of thinking of things in terms of potential and possibilities.



> Ne people have trouble concentrating.


That's such a BS statement in itself. Sorry. There's nothing about Ne that makes it difficult to concentrate because there is nothing about Ne as a reasoning process that would suggest it's a part of its definition. Again, people that are sleep deprived have issues concentrating; are these people Ne types or ADHD or both? 

You are ascribing general human traits to Ne as a cognitive function except a cognitive function is not about a set of traits; it's a specific kind of reasoning process. 



> They both have the same strengths and weaknesses, so you're leaving out half the definition of each. You're saying 10 != 10 because 1 != 0


I frankly don't even understand your analogy and how you arrive at this is how I reason. 

The main problem with your argument is that you are connecting loose traits with a cognitive function except a cognitive function is not a set of traits; again, it's a form of reasoning process. While a certain cognitive function could result in certain behaviors being more likely than others, it does not in itself suggest that this behavior is de facto correlated with the function. So stuff like "creativity", "difficulty to concentrate" are in themselves not specific or unique to Ne. This becomes even more problematic when we begin to analyze this statement in relation to the other functions; does this mean that non-Ne types cannot be creative? Because that is the logical implication of what you suggest. If you are attributing a singular trait to this function, then by virtue, it cannot be a property of another function because if it is, then it is not a result of this function. If you then suggest that Fi types too, for example, can be creative, then you are creating a definitional contradiction since you are suggesting that creativity is a property of Ne. It therefore also cannot be a property of Fi. 



> A point to throw out too is America is an ADHD nation with the highest rates of diagnosis, but also the most innovation. It makes sense because we're more likely to move, travel, explore, experiment, etc... because the people who started this country and move here are like that.


I fail to see how this is relevant to Ne. If anything, if I had to make this type-specific, I'd say that attitude is more typical to enneagram type 7. 



> *
> Ok, so let's put this to the test: are there any people here who are positive they are ENTP or ENFP but do NOT think they might have ADHD?*


There are a lot of people that have ADHD that are not Ne doms, and there are many people without ADHD that are Ne doms. Again, correlation does not equal causation.


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## Belzy (Aug 12, 2013)

Entropic said:


> ADHD=neurological, causes difficulty in focus and creates excess energy
> Ne=psychological, a style of cognitive reasoning of seeing potential and possibilities
> 
> So no. Not everything about the psyche is equivalent.


That's a very negative way to describe ADHD. There are many qualities to go with ADHD as well. It's not fair to only list few negative looking ones, which are a result of a certain (internal) behavior.

Also, there is a reason for having difficulties in focus. Having lack of focus just because you have ADHD is something I am not willing to believe anymore. I am diagnosed with ADD, and always have and still have those problems, but nowadays I think the real reason behind it is more complex than just a so called disorder. I am disordered, disoriented in some way, but how come? Something has been done to me.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

AAADD Edison said:


> That's a very negative way to describe ADHD. There are many qualities to go with ADHD as well. It's not fair to only list few negative looking ones, which are a result of a certain (internal) behavior.
> 
> Also, there is a reason for having difficulties in focus. Having lack of focus just because you have ADHD is something I am not willing to believe anymore. I am diagnosed with ADD, and always have and still have those problems, but nowadays I think the real reason behind it is more complex than just a so called disorder. I am disordered, disoriented in some way, but how come? Something has been done to me.


I listed the traits brought up as examples in this thread; I have no interest in contesting the actual occurrence and and the variance of said occurrences of ADHD and ADD. The point I was making was that ADHD is a very different aspect of the human psyche that should not be conflated with Ne just because they seem to at times, share superficial traits with one another. 

It was not meant to judge the value of people with ADHD and whether that is negative or positive.


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## Belzy (Aug 12, 2013)

Entropic said:


> I listed the traits brought up as examples in this thread; I have no interest in contesting the actual occurrence and and the variance of said occurrences of ADHD and ADD. The point I was making was that ADHD is a very different aspect of the human psyche that should not be conflated with Ne just because they seem to at times, share superficial traits with one another.
> 
> It was not meant to judge the value of people with ADHD and whether that is negative or positive.


Not sure how convincing it was with such a small post about it, because a style of cognitive reasoning of seeing potential and possibilities is something I could link to ADHD as well.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

AAADD Edison said:


> Not sure how convincing it was with such a small post about it, because a style of cognitive reasoning of seeing potential and possibilities is something I could link to ADHD as well.


Except not really, because if you read my second post, I went into much deeper detail how that idea itself is flawed. It goes back to how Ne as a cognitive function really works, which has nothing to do with ADHD's idea of "seeing potential" and is rooted in Jung's original definition of intuition. I like Augusta's, though:



> Perceives information about objects' potential energy — for example, information about the physical and mental abilities and potential of a person. This perception grants the ability to understand the structure of objects and phenomena and grasp their inner content. This element determines a person's ability or inability to see the real potential energy of one's surroundings.


With that said, I mostly feel that you are currently nitpicking because you found something I wrote to be disagreeable as opposed to actually reading what I wrote and taking in what it means. I'd appreciate if you could go re-read and place what I wrote within its proper context because if you did, you'd realize exactly why I wrote that conclusions such as "a style of cognitive reasoning of seeing potential and possibilities is something I could link to ADHD as well" is flawed.


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## Belzy (Aug 12, 2013)

Entropic said:


> Except not really, because if you read my second post, I went into much deeper detail how that idea itself is flawed. It goes back to how Ne as a cognitive function really works, which has nothing to do with ADHD's idea of "seeing potential" and is rooted in Jung's original definition of intuition. I like Augusta's, though:
> 
> 
> 
> With that said, I mostly feel that you are currently nitpicking because you found something I wrote to be disagreeable as opposed to actually reading what I wrote and taking in what it means. I'd appreciate if you could go re-read and place what I wrote within its proper context because if you did, you'd realize exactly why I wrote that conclusions such as "a style of cognitive reasoning of seeing potential and possibilities is something I could link to ADHD as well" is flawed.


For the record, I don't disagree with you. I am challenging what you had to say to possibly form a better or stronger opinion myself. I have multiple times read the description by Augusta you have just posted. My English is flawed, and I am anyway not very good with difficult used words descriptions. I don't really exactly understand the description. I think to believe to be Ne-dom myself so I should relate, but I am not sure?


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## snowpetal (Sep 16, 2016)

Well, I'm an INFP without ADHD and my sister is an ISFP with ADHD, and there are many differences I see between my Ne and her ADHD symptoms. I have lots of ideas, am good at making connections between things, and tend to procrastinate a lot. My sister, on the other hand, has a really short attention span, prefers to multitask, has trouble focusing and concentrating, is not good at drawing connections between ideas, and "shuts down" when she becomes overstimulated. I'm not saying that all people with ADHD have these same problems, but those are the main things that she displays. These symptoms are unique to my ISFP sister, and I don't see any of these symptoms in myself or my ENFP friend. My sister's ENFP friend who does have ADHD, however, displays the Ne traits of idea bouncing AND the ADHD traits I mentioned. So the conclusion would be that although Ne users may seem enthusiastic and bounce between ideas, that is not the same thing as ADHD or ADD.


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## Stellafera (Jan 19, 2015)

boblikesoup said:


> @Stellafera I suffer the same symptoms, but wouldn't you say you think faster and more creatively than your peers? And when you compare Ne to the description of ADHD, don't they sound the exact same? It's true ADHD is the most treatable of "every condition", but maybe that's because it's not actually a condition but just a personality trait.


I would say I'm smarter than average. I'm not convinced it's because of the ADHD, though. On the anecdotal level, most people I know with ADHD are broadly clever but there's also a level of "Are you listening to yourself talk, or are the words just coming out of your mouth?" :tongue:. 

I don't really see why Ne is always considered *THE* ADHD function; a lot of the stereotypical squirmy kid depictions sound more Se than anything. It seems like it still requires focus to notice and evaluate those possibilities. If the scattered attention is extroverted, the uncontrollable hyperfocus aspect is equally introverted, no? I have the innattentive subtype of ADHD, which I experience as plenty Ni enough. Very much staring off into the distance, compounding thoughts upon themselves with with no real intention. But my non-ADHD thinking style is _also_ Ni. There's just a lot more direction and awareness going into it. 

My objection with the "ADHD as a personality trait" idea is that it makes it sound like not a problem at all, or only a problem because of some amorphous "society". Me? I'd rather not have ADHD. It costs quite a bit of money to treat and all I get out of it is more sympathy for others in the mental health system. Although who knows, maybe there is some other cool thing I get out of it. I have also seen studies that show some cognitive benefits from stimulants for neurologically healthy people (though the changes are much more pronounced for ADD patients), which creates some ethics questions. People also have different reactions to medication, and some choose non-stimulant medications like Strattera or forgo it entirely in favor of therapy. 

All I really know is that most research I've read around ADHD refers to _lower_ cognitive function and that the ADHD + medication combo makes _me_ happier than the ADHD - medication combo. I draw my conclusions from there.


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## boblikesoup (Nov 26, 2011)

snowpetal said:


> Well, I'm an INFP without ADHD and my sister is an ISFP with ADHD, and there are many differences I see between my Ne and her ADHD symptoms. I have lots of ideas, am good at making connections between things, and tend to procrastinate a lot. My sister, on the other hand, has a really short attention span, prefers to multitask, has trouble focusing and concentrating, is not good at drawing connections between ideas, and "shuts down" when she becomes overstimulated. I'm not saying that all people with ADHD have these same problems, but those are the main things that she displays. These symptoms are unique to my ISFP sister, and I don't see any of these symptoms in myself or my ENFP friend. My sister's ENFP friend who does have ADHD, however, displays the Ne traits of idea bouncing AND the ADHD traits I mentioned. So the conclusion would be that although Ne users may seem enthusiastic and bounce between ideas, that is not the same thing as ADHD or ADD.



Your ENFP friend is the first person I've ever heard of in my life who doesn't have ADHD, and it's coming from a second hand source. Can you confirm ADHD and type? So far 4/4 Ne-doms who have posted here confirmed they have ADHD, in addition to the six or so I am thinking of in my life. I know they're not the only types who gets ADHD, but I am trying to figure out how they're related. 

Regarding ADHD and Se, I wonder if Se people are getting mis-diagnosed as people who get bored easily/need a lot of stimulation. Or if maybe functions are related to ADHD type variations. 

There are two official types of ADHD (you can have both). Not everybody displays the same symptoms, but I think the easiest way to tell is:
1. Hyperactive - rushes a lot.
2. Inattentive - daydreams a lot.

@Stellafera Maybe Ne is only correlated to ADHD - hyperactive. Often I also feel I'd rather not have ADHD, but after thinking about it more and more it's the cause of some of my greatest strengths too. Do you take medication every day? I just do it on days I'm working but try to never take it more than 4 days in a row or else I become a mess when I'm not on them.


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## Sour Roses (Dec 30, 2015)

Yes, it could be.

It makes perfect sense of why they both drive me crazy


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## Stellafera (Jan 19, 2015)

boblikesoup said:


> @Stellafera Maybe Ne is only correlated to ADHD - hyperactive. Often I also feel I'd rather not have ADHD, but after thinking about it more and more it's the cause of some of my greatest strengths too. Do you take medication every day? I just do it on days I'm working but try to never take it more than 4 days in a row or else I become a mess when I'm not on them.


Yeah, I take it every day. As a student I usually have a lot I have to get done on the weekends too. I haven't really had the free time to ever try getting off of them for more than a few days. Plus I hate the idea of "losing" that time. There's always something I want to focus on.

I did have to recently lower my dosage due to heart rate concerns (high heartrate runs in the family, combine it with stimulant medication...). It fades off a lot earlier into the night now so I spend most of my evenings essentially unmediated.


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## ECM (Apr 8, 2015)

boblikesoup said:


> 1. Hyperactive - rushes a lot.
> 2. Inattentive - daydreams a lot.


I do both excessively. Either one or the other. I feel this is what has contributed to me getting chronic anxiety as I can deeply ponder and daydream, intense visualisation, which when anxious can be terrifying, since Ne also in a bad state makes all sorts of paranoid or negative connections/outcomes to things. 

Additionally, because of high energy = high adrenaline = high anxiety. Since excitement and hyperactiveness, and anxiety/fear both stem from adrenaline, the only thing that changes it from happiness to fear is the perception that adrenaline gets filtered through in the mind. (Hence some people love rollarcoasters while other people crap themselves.)

But I digress, (I do that as you most likely know, due to my Ne or..."ADHD")

Where was I.... *scrolls up* 

Yeah, so childhood, happy and excited, but also intense daydreaming when I "wasn't" in a hyper mood. During the day dreaming I'll either be fantasising or "Ne-ing" about things. More so as I have got older my Ne has developed that way. 

Sometimes they will combine, and I will have "hyper daydreams" and I get all twitchy and restless when I'm thinking of something. 

But generally I'm not "balanced", either I'm away with the clouds or looking like I'm on high caffeine intake. Of course I can be depressed or very anxious/quiet at times, but that I would say was the "negative" or unhealthy side of Ne-Fi or simply as some would call it "ADHD anxiety proneness". I have noticed when I am in a healthy and natural state of mind, I'm either on a high, or completely in my own world, which I think is a self protection system for us Ne doms because if we didn't have that I feel we (or at least me) would be struggling to process too much information at once, either intellectually or sensory. (Which is what happens when I'm anxious, as I'm also hyper aware of my surroundings during which and start making all these weird, anxious Ne connections to everything.) 

As I have got older, it's as if I have traded this excessive day dreaming and hyperactivness for being neutral, but also extremely anxious in replacement of those things. But as I have been getting better again, I am returning to my initial state of my old ways, day dreaming more often and being more excitable again.

Additionally Ne doms (ENFP & ENTPs) are famous for having the "silly switch", where we can suddenly act like we are intoxicated without any drink or drugs etc. And what I note is that many "ADHD" people are also known for this trait. Not all, but that again splits into the two variants of ADHD as well as personality variants of ENFP/ENTPs.

So lets say ADHD "is" just Ne. The intensity of the "condition" would depend on where Ne was in your stacking. Which explains ENFP/ENTP majority ADHD diagnosis thing perfectly also.


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## snowpetal (Sep 16, 2016)

boblikesoup said:


> Your ENFP friend is the first person I've ever heard of in my life who doesn't have ADHD, and it's coming from a second hand source. Can you confirm ADHD and type? So far 4/4 Ne-doms who have posted here confirmed they have ADHD, in addition to the six or so I am thinking of in my life. I know they're not the only types who gets ADHD, but I am trying to figure out how they're related.
> 
> Regarding ADHD and Se, I wonder if Se people are getting mis-diagnosed as people who get bored easily/need a lot of stimulation. Or if maybe functions are related to ADHD type variations.
> 
> ...


My friend is definitely 100% an ENFP, and she definitely 100% does not have ADHD or ADD. My ISFP sister is also definitely not misdiagnosed. If you knew her, you would understand that ADHD is not just some kind of personality quirk. It is serious and it has caused her many problems throughout her life. I believe there is also a way for neurologists to tell if someone has ADHD by looking at their brain chemistry. Here is an image of an ADHD brain vs a normal brain:

http://www.akidjustlikeme.com/1d0c2460.jpg


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## ECM (Apr 8, 2015)

snowpetal said:


> My friend is definitely 100% an ENFP, and she definitely 100% does not have ADHD or ADD. My ISFP sister is also definitely not misdiagnosed. If you knew her, you would understand that ADHD is not just some kind of personality quirt. It is serious and it has caused her many problems throughout her life. I believe there is also a way for neurologists to tell if someone has ADHD by looking at their brain chemistry. Here is an image of an ADHD brain vs a normal brain:
> 
> http://www.akidjustlikeme.com/1d0c2460.jpg


What we should do is get Ne doms to get these brain scans and see if the results are the same. x) Since personality "is" brain chemistry technically.


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## Belzy (Aug 12, 2013)

boblikesoup said:


> Your ENFP friend is the first person I've ever heard of in my life who doesn't have ADHD, and it's coming from a second hand source. Can you confirm ADHD and type? So far 4/4 Ne-doms who have posted here confirmed they have ADHD, in addition to the six or so I am thinking of in my life. I know they're not the only types who gets ADHD, but I am trying to figure out how they're related.
> 
> Regarding ADHD and Se, I wonder if Se people are getting mis-diagnosed as people who get bored easily/need a lot of stimulation. Or if maybe functions are related to ADHD type variations.
> 
> ...


If maybe Ne is only correlated to ADHD - hyperactive, then to what would be correlated to ADD - inattentive?

I say this with leaving in the middle this being accurate or not, but just am curious to what answer this will get.


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## boblikesoup (Nov 26, 2011)

I posted polls on the ENFP and ENTP forums

By the way there is no such thing as ADD anymore, it's always ADHD- hyperactive or inattentive.

@snowpetal Maybe you're right then. It does seem like Ne isn't the only ones with ADHD. Curious see Ne ADHD correlation though.


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## Eset (Jun 7, 2016)

ADHD is completely different to Ne, like completely.

If you have ADHD =/= you having Ne,
If you have Ne =/= you having ADHD.


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## Desthro (Feb 18, 2016)

They aren't the same at all. ADHD is a dopamine shortage in the brain.

Ne has little to do with it.


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## Wiz (Apr 8, 2014)

AAADD Edison said:


> Since my previous post I have thought about this. Like I keep on listening to music non-stop, eating cookies far too many, not (done with) being satisfied with any of them, and therefore not moving on thus other stuff keep getting postponed. I have a dopamine 'addiction'? Never saw it that way.


Dopamine = Motivation hormone
AD(H)D = Low levels of dopamine > Low motivation > Low attention span > Addictive behaviour etc.

You can look at AD(H)D as a sort of dopamine addiction. A lot of AD(H)D sufferers tend to become drug addicts, gambling addicts, sex addicts, prone to violent behaviour etc. the similarity for all these activities is that they produce large amounts of dopamine. The same substance which low levels 'causes' AD(H)D. So the AD(H)D patient will often become addicted to these activities because they 'balance' out the low levels of dopamine.

Ritalin which is one of the medications used to treat AD(H)D is a drug which stimulates the production of dopamine so that the patient can adjust and balance the medication for the goal of reaching a 'normal' level of motivation. That's the scientific reasoning behind it's 'effectiveness' in treating AD(H)D.



> I actually don't see it that way. I believe in a different theory, which is not about ADD.
> 
> Are we most at ease when using our most dominate function? Like, I am Fi-dom, so when I am overstimulated and need to relax, then I choose to do something which satisfies my Fi. As highly sensitive person,* I easily and quickly am overly stimulated and then I withdraw; as introverted person I need to take distance from the crowd, I barely am capable of taking a part of it then anyway. Then I prefer to (and will) do whatever my Fi wishes me to do.
> 
> *or as someone with ADD, (which does not have my preference to see it that way)


I think you're right about this, but I think this is about personalities in general. You'll always drawn towards your main function. An INTJ will be drawn towards using Ni, just like an ENFP will be drawn towards using Ne, and an INFP to Fi.



> I'm not sure it is because of that (when it comes to me). For me, it feels like I don't have the energy or will power for it, or simply don't feel like doing it because it doesn't feel rewarding and it never ends (having to do tasks in my life). I am very aware of how long it will take, even though I have been told because of my autism I don't do that very well (how long my things take in the morning) but I don't really agree with that. Sometimes I underestimate how long something will take, but that doesn't make me time blind.


This is very relatable and are linked with motivation/dopamine.



> Introverted functions are mental, and extraverted functions are physical, or aren't they?


Not exactly. It's more the direction they are engaging. For instance extraverted intuition (Ne) is a 'mental' function, but it's engaged outwards towards the environment. It's about connecting dots which as an effect produces ideas. 



> It are the Ne-doms who usually have ADHD, hence the thread title and thread comments.
> Some Ni-dom says to have ADD. I as Fi-dom as well (in a world where ADD exists).


I don't think that's the case. I simply think that an ADD brain craves intellectual/mental stimulus to produce dopamine, and an ADHD brain craves sensory/physical stimulus to produce dopamine. I did a quick research and you see people can have both with ADD and ADHD independent from extraversion/introversion.



> ADD : for some intellectual 'content' ... are you referring to things like playing video games, making puzzles, or whatever, what's focus of the brain and thus introverted function?


Well, you're sort of touching the essence of it, but it doesn't have anything to do with introverted/extroverted functions. You can use the brain in an extrovert way like talking to people, produce ideas and analyse the world (Ne) which is an 'extroverted' function but still mental/intellectual. ENTP/ENFP are commonly diagnosed with ADD despite being extroverts. They have the 'mental energy' but lack the 'physical energy'. 



> ADHD : for something physical to stimulate ... are you referring to things like running, playing sports, throwing, or whatever, what's focus of the outside and thus extraverted function?


Same with this except ADHD is more inclined to crave physical stimuli to produce dopamine and have a larger need for acting upon 'physical energy' hence their physical restlessness and tendency towards sensory/physical action. Introverts who have ADHD are performing physical activities, but in solitude. For instance an ISFP diagnosed with ADHD can have high 'physical energy' but will go on lonely mountain trips or whatever suits them. 

ADD = More mental 
ADHD = More physical 

I actually have a theory where I think ADD is something that affects iNtuitives, and ADHD is something that affects Sensors, but I still need to do a lot of research to reach a conclusion on this hypothesis.


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## strawberryLola (Sep 19, 2010)

When I was little, one of my school teachers brought it to the attention of my mom she thought I had ADD. My mom doesn't believe in that kind of stuff, and denied any treatment. I'm NP.

Supposedly, ADD is diagnosed more with girls than it is with boys. ADHD is more diagnosed with boys.

I feel at times I have a combined type. For those who have ADD or a combined type, Sam-E can work.

I find dopamine based supplements help.

As far as Ne goes... I think it depends. Supposedly, people who are far-sighted in vision can also be mis-diagnosed as having ADHD.

At the same time, having vision problems can contribute to behavioral patterns that cause hyperactivity/inactivity. 

With contacts on or glasses, focusing can still be a problem for some?

Far-sightedness with corrective vision for me has remained consistent in terms of focus with/without corrective vision.

Great book to read and check out:


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## boblikesoup (Nov 26, 2011)

Wiz said:


> ADD = More mental
> ADHD = More physical
> 
> I actually have a theory where I think ADD is something that affects iNtuitives, and ADHD is something that affects Sensors, but I still need to do a lot of research to reach a conclusion on this hypothesis.



ADD isn't a diagnosis anymore, options are ADHD - Hyperactive and/or ADHD - Inattentive.

Plz post results here when they're ready would love to see them.

Have any good recommendations for dopamine leveling besides drugs?




furryfury said:


> Wouldn't it make more sense to poll every type to see if they have ADHD so that you have a comparison? If you google it there are pretty much people of every type that have ADHD.


I'm not speaking for all types, but the frequency of adult ADHD compared to how many Ne and possibly Se users are reporting it stands out.


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## Doll (Sep 6, 2012)

No. My Ne is pretty silent. If I verbalize it, I've learned that it confuses people and others find me difficult to follow, so it's generally internalized ADHD. If there's no such thing, I just invented it.


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## Blue Soul (Mar 14, 2015)

Doll said:


> No. My Ne is pretty silent. If I verbalize it, I've learned that it confuses people and others find me difficult to follow, so it's generally internalized ADHD. If there's no such thing, I just invented it.


Your post makes me picture an Ne-dom being perfectly still in a group of people but internally screaming wildly and climbing on the inside walls of their skull, like a little version of themselves in there.


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## Wiz (Apr 8, 2014)

boblikesoup said:


> ADD isn't a diagnosis anymore, options are ADHD - Hyperactive and/or ADHD - Inattentive.


Yeah, ADD = Inattentive ADHD



> Have any good recommendations for dopamine leveling besides drugs?


Exercise and a proper diet with slow carbs (avoid sugar) and high protein can get you a long way, in addition to meditation.


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## OrangeAppled (Jun 26, 2009)

I just don't see the connection others see. I think it is a misunderstanding of what Ne actually is, and that is NOT trouble focusing or being easily distracted.

Most of the people IRL that I know who have been diagnosed with ADHD are SP types.... I used to think it was more about Se, although I don't think that is the case anymore either.

I do think we live in a J biased world and that there is over-diagnosing and a tendency to paint certain thinking & behavioral styles as "defective"*, but I still struggle to see how Ne preferences would confused with ADHD. 

*Side tangent:
Ever notice how certain qualities may be praised when present but not seen as a defect when absent? Creativity comes to mind. Certain strengths which are commonly lacking in people are not seen as a real problem, but when those strengths are commonly present, then they are taken for granted as normal. Having a good sense of time is an example of that. 

Take this meme, for example:

* *

















My rebuttal to this:
*Talent = natural aptitude or skill.* 
*Being on time* = skill/aptitude for time management, awareness of time passing, etc. 
*Work ethic* = skill/aptitude at determining the arbitrary rules of a community and adhering to them. 
*Effort* = applying a skill/aptitude to a task. 
*Body language* = skill/aptitude for recognizing, mimicking & manipulating arbitrary social interpretations of body/facial expressions. 
*Energy* = skill in managing energy so as to have enough when called for, as well as aptitude (aka natural ability) for being a high energy person. 
*Attitude* = skill/aptitude for managing one's own emotions and perhaps manipulating those of others. 
*Passion *= aptitude for being an expressive person or skill at faking/cultivating it. 
*Being coachable* = skill/aptitude for learning and interaction. 
*Doing extra* = skill/aptitude for taking initiative, seeing the "extra". 
*Being prepared* = skill/aptitude at preparing and being organized.*Save**Save*​


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## Belzy (Aug 12, 2013)

Wiz said:


> Dopamine = Motivation hormone
> AD(H)D = Low levels of dopamine > *Low motivation > Low attention span *> Addictive behaviour etc.


Low motivation and low attention span is my life story, and I have (somewhat) avoided addictive stuff in my life. So yeah, okay, I got low levels of dopamine then. Probably explains the rare moments of feeling excitement in my life, and repulsive listen or eat the same thing as long as possible.



> You can look at AD(H)D as a sort of dopamine addiction. A lot of AD(H)D sufferers tend to *become drug addicts, gambling addicts, sex addicts, prone to violent behaviour *etc. the similarity for all these activities is that they produce large amounts of dopamine. The same substance which low levels 'causes' AD(H)D. So the AD(H)D patient will often become addicted to these activities because they 'balance' out the low levels of dopamine.


Am I a dopamine addict? It doesn't feel right to me to see it that way. I don't think I am.

I have avoided drugs, gambling and sex in my life, for most part, and am not a violent person myself and I can't take well violent behavior towards me.

Chocolate cookies and music are my main addictions of my life then? Don't worry, I don't eat them as much as I used to do, and I actually am quite skinny or (below) average at most. Music on the other hand... now _that_ is my most fullfilling dopamine thingy. As I type this I listen to the same song for few hours now. 


...hmmm, perhaps I _am_ a dopamine addict then 



> Ritalin which is one of the medications used to treat AD(H)D is a drug which stimulates the production of dopamine so that the patient can adjust and balance the medication for the goal of reaching a 'normal' level of motivation. That's the scientific reasoning behind it's 'effectiveness' in treating AD(H)D.


And because it does... it gives more motivation, more attention span, less addictive behavior, and thus more useful behavior? Yeah same goes for when I used Pepsi as medication for this. With lots of sugar and caffein I could get things done. I was not tired or exhausted, and had energy and focus instead.



> I think you're right about this, but I think this is about personalities in general. You'll always drawn towards your main function. An INTJ will be drawn towards using Ni, just like an ENFP will be drawn towards using Ne, and an INFP to Fi.


So this keeps alive the theory I spontaniously thought of : 

INFP : when overstimulated withdraws to their Fi, and thus avoids extravism behavior, ADD-like and me as example acts to put his hands before his head/eyes and doesn't want to receive more information/stimulations from outside and protects his internal feeling, stays with them.

I actually get quickest overstimualted when I have to deal with Te, with listening to explanations (training) and follow those instructions myself. I am tired before I know it, but if I can play Ne-style + Fi-style just do very impulsive based on my feelings I can play forever. And when I get overstimulated, then my Ne vanished, to protect my Fi, my Fi won't let me go Ne. But when feeling alright and comfortable, my Fi allows to go fully Ne style.

Ne-dom : I got some Ne-dom friends diagnosed with ADHD, them as examples when they are overstimalted they like to dance or sing out of nothing. It seems like they deal with overstimualted with extravism behavior, namely their Ne-dom.



> This is very relatable and are *linked with motivation/dopamine*.


Yeah, seems like it does.



> Not exactly. It's more the direction they are engaging. For instance extraverted intuition (Ne) is a 'mental' function, but it's engaged outwards towards the environment. It's about connecting dots which as an effect produces ideas.


Ah okay. Then I have misused those words. Then I for now think ADHD would suit extravism dom functions, and ADD introvism dom functions ...as theory, not declaring anything now.



> I don't think that's the case. I simply think that an ADD brain craves intellectual/mental stimulus to produce dopamine, and an ADHD brain craves sensory/physical stimulus to produce dopamine. I did a quick research and you see people can have both with ADD and ADHD independent from extraversion/introversion.


You state ADHD being a Sensor thing yet the most ADHD people seem to be Ne-doms, so that is not very likely to be accurate then. And I am wondering about ADD and ADHD being independent from extra-and-introversion. I used to think that, and I want to test this out, figure out. I want to be sure.



> Well, you're sort of touching the essence of it, but it doesn't have anything to do with introverted/extroverted functions. You can use the brain in an extrovert way like talking to people, produce ideas and analyse the world (Ne) which is an 'extroverted' function but still mental/intellectual. ENTP/ENFP are commonly diagnosed with ADD despite being extroverts. They have the 'mental energy' but lack the 'physical energy'.
> 
> Same with this except ADHD is more inclined to crave physical stimuli to produce dopamine and have a larger need for acting upon 'physical energy' hence their physical restlessness and tendency towards sensory/physical action. Introverts who have ADHD are performing physical activities, but in solitude. For instance an ISFP diagnosed with ADHD can have high 'physical energy' but will go on lonely mountain trips or whatever suits them.
> 
> ...


I will give this a thought.



> I actually have a theory where I think ADD is something that affects iNtuitives, and ADHD is something that affects Sensors, but I still need to do a lot of research to reach a conclusion on this hypothesis.


So far this theory seems not accurate, but I am curious anyway.


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## Belzy (Aug 12, 2013)

OrangeAppled said:


> I just don't see the connection others see. I think it is a misunderstanding of what Ne actually is, and that is NOT trouble focusing or being easily distracted.
> 
> Most of the people IRL that I know who have been diagnosed with ADHD are SP types.... I used to think it was more about Se, although I don't think that is the case anymore either.
> 
> ...


HAHAHAHAHA!!!! OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!

THIS IS SOOOO FUNNY!!!!

I lack *ALL OF THOSE 10 THINGS *like there's no tomorrow!!!

I got plenty of talent though. I am just talent, nothing more than that ...literally, lol


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## lookslikeiwin (May 6, 2014)

I think they just get confused for each other because they look a bit similar. I do, truly, have ADHD-I, but I know NPs who don't and my grandfather is an ESFJ with it.


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## Wiz (Apr 8, 2014)

AAADD Edison said:


> Low motivation and low attention span is my life story, and I have (somewhat) avoided addictive stuff in my life. So yeah, okay, I got low levels of dopamine then. Probably explains the rare moments of feeling excitement in my life, and repulsive listen or eat the same thing as long as possible.


It's important to not stop chasing excitements in your life. A lot of people with this condition have no problems with excitement, so that might just as well be related to another problem.



> Am I a dopamine addict? It doesn't feel right to me to see it that way. I don't think I am.


I wouldn't be too concerned with my wording. It's just another way of looking at it. Every kind of behavioural addiction is sort 'dopamine' addiction. Or 'hormone' addiction if you will. Just another way of explaining it.



> I have avoided drugs, gambling and sex in my life, for most part, and am not a violent person myself and I can't take well violent behavior towards me.


Good on you 



> Chocolate cookies and music are my main addictions of my life then? Don't worry, I don't eat them as much as I used to do, and I actually am quite skinny or (below) average at most. Music on the other hand... now _that_ is my most fullfilling dopamine thingy. As I type this I listen to the same song for few hours now.


Food = dopamine as well.



> ...hmmm, perhaps I _am_ a dopamine addict then


Why are you sad? If it didn't make a difference before you read my take on it, then why would it afterwards? Using the word 'addict' doesn't change anything. Every kind of human behaviour could be defined as 'addictive'. Some are 'addicted' to cleaning, it doesn't make them 'bad'.



> And because it does... it gives more motivation, more attention span, less addictive behavior, and thus more useful behavior? Yeah same goes for when I used Pepsi as medication for this. With lots of sugar and caffein I could get things done. I was not tired or exhausted, and had energy and focus instead.


In theory that's what Ritalin should do. But nothing beats psychological motivation. Don't box yourself in thinking that you 'need' pepsi or medication to perform. That's where a lot of people go down the wrong way. When they start making excuses and continue unhealthy behaviour. 



> So this keeps alive the theory I spontaniously thought of :
> 
> INFP : when overstimulated withdraws to their Fi, and thus avoids extravism behavior, ADD-like and me as example acts to put his hands before his head/eyes and doesn't want to receive more information/stimulations from outside and protects his internal feeling, stays with them.


Everyone can get overstimulated, I do as well from time to time. It got nothing to do with extroversion introversion. Just look at my boss who's an ESTJ. If we talk about complex topics he get's exhausted. It's just a matter of what the brain prefers, or it's 'natural' state. I sometimes get exhausted from discussing practical things like loans and interest rates, but I can talk about ideas for days.



> I actually get quickest overstimualted when I have to deal with Te, with listening to explanations (training) and follow those instructions myself. I am tired before I know it, but if I can play Ne-style + Fi-style just do very impulsive based on my feelings I can play forever. And when I get overstimulated, then my Ne vanished, to protect my Fi, my Fi won't let me go Ne. But when feeling alright and comfortable, my Fi allows to go fully Ne style.


Te is exhausting for most types. Unless you're an SJ/NJ. Also, you should never 'decide' that Te is something that exhaust you every time. If you think you'll get exhausted you will get exhausted. Just roll with it. Thinking that you 'need' to achieve 'this' state before you can use Ne, or thinking that the planets must align before you can function properly is a mistake, because then you'll use a lot of time and will get disappointed a lot more often. 



> Ne-dom : I got some Ne-dom friends diagnosed with ADHD, them as examples when they are overstimalted they like to dance or sing out of nothing. It seems like they deal with overstimualted with extravism behavior, namely their Ne-dom.


Yeah, overstimulation for some people often produces erratic/hyperactive behaviour, which causes a 'crash' in the long run. Some are Ne-dom, some are not. People aren't a blueprint, and thinking that they are will remove a lot of the magic an individual have to offer. Now you might have some 'similar' behaviour, but in the end the brain decides how a person reacts, not a personality theory.



> Ah okay. Then I have misused those words. Then I for now think ADHD would suit extravism dom functions, and ADD introvism dom functions ...as theory, not declaring anything now.


Do you think this is correct for every case of AD(H)D in the entire world? Just look on the web. A lot of introverts are diagnosed with ADHD hyperactive variant. Nothing to do with extraversion/introversion. 



> You state ADHD being a Sensor thing yet the most ADHD people seem to be Ne-doms, so that is not very likely to be accurate then. And I am wondering about ADD and ADHD being independent from extra-and-introversion. I used to think that, and I want to test this out, figure out. I want to be sure.


Well then how do you explain ADHD being linked with risk-seeking, violence, addictive behaviour, gambling, sex etc. This doesn't fit with the Ne-dom narrative. The theory doesn't make sense. ADHD is just a dopamine problem that can happen to all brains. Not just Ne-doms. I don't know how you can be so sure about this as you've failed to explain how you reached this conclusion.

The people with ADHD I know seem to be mostly Se-doms which also seems to have a cluster of problems like dyslexia, antisocial behaviour etc. Ne-doms don't usually struggle with words and articulation, neither performing at school. That's why I think ADD is an iNtuitive thing, because the stereotypical antisocial, aggressive ADHD-patient rarely have the mental energy of your average Ne-dom.



> So far this theory seems not accurate, but I am curious anyway.


How do you explain the intelligence and 'geniusness' of non-violent ADD people like Dali, Picasso, Van Gogh, Allan Poe, Mozart, Bill Gates, Edison, Franklin, John F. Kennedy etc.?

ADD (creative/mental) = iNtuitives
ADHD (active/physical) = Sensors


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## infPromi (Sep 26, 2016)

Unfortunately in somewhat dysfunction medical industries, Ne and Se can often be misclassified as ADHD. Functioning teaching styles for these two functions is very difficult to achieve and is only seen in the best of teachers. Many teachers will see students with these functions struggling in their Si dominated teaching styles and quickly turn to medication. In many cases ADHD is very evident, but often if someone has 'some' ADHD issues, they probably just have Ne or Se.

As far as using Ne more as a shadow function: seems pretty unlikely and explainable through many conditions and world views, interesting none the less.


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## aymeric (Sep 30, 2016)

I have to disagree. There is no relation here whatsover. ADHD/ADD seems like an effect of fast food. That is it. Couple with it anxiety and impulsivity.


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## CasusBelli (Feb 25, 2015)

On the surface, ADD or ADHD seems correlative to enneagram 7, not Ne.
Sevens are optimistic and enthusiastic, finding it hard to focus on a dreaey task 
in a modern world, full of stimuli and instant gratification.

Then again, most of those tests relate to doing well at an under-funded public school,
where some of the more intelligent, inquisitive types might become frustrated with
the long hours and the musty-brained would-be "teachers".

If anything, Se extroverts seem much more prone to ADD/ADHD, since it's harder
for them to sit in one place for a long period of time without exerting physical energy.
Ne on the other hand "sails" in imagination land (another domain that is gladly shot
down by public schools), while Si keeps an eye for tradition, physical
stagnancy and quiet well-being.


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## Mafioso (Dec 3, 2016)

CasusBelli said:


> On the surface, ADD or ADHD seems correlative to enneagram 7, not Ne.
> Sevens are optimistic and enthusiastic, finding it hard to focus on a dreaey task
> in a modern world, full of stimuli and instant gratification.
> 
> ...


Great response. One thing is that even though I am a 8w7 Ne dom, I still appear very ADHDish. It's probably the 7 wing.


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## Mafioso (Dec 3, 2016)

aymeric said:


> ADHD/ADD seems like an effect of fast food.


...what


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## throughtheroses (May 25, 2016)

I think there's a strong correlation between ADHD and Ne/Se.

I have ADHD, and it's reflected in my strong Ne--same with my ESTJ father, who has an unusual amount of Ne. Meanwhile, my Se-dom brother is one of the most stereotypical cases of impulsive ADHD out there, and he has no Ne traits whatsoever.

Ne and Se are both impulsive, hyperactive, and scatterbrained, just in different ways.


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## Cdot (Oct 13, 2017)

I'm ENFP and ADHD-I

I think the NP combination is the most likely to have issues with that. Gut instinct plus impulsivity...


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## Cdot (Oct 13, 2017)

aymeric said:


> I have to disagree. There is no relation here whatsover. ADHD/ADD seems like an effect of fast food. That is it. Couple with it anxiety and impulsivity.



Lol. when I was first diagnosed with ADHD, I had never had fast food because we just didn't have the money for it. And "couple that with anxiety and impulsivity"? That's like saying, "That's not a cow. That's just a beef-producing quadruped."


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## Zeus (Oct 8, 2011)

My cognition is against the boards, utilize all functions besides Fi and Si. ENTP cousin, plus ENTJ mom are ADHD affective also. So I'd state it's linked to both Ni and Ne.


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