# Some help, please? Gracias! :)



## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

_1. Is there anything that may affect the way you answer the questions? For example, a stressful time, mental illness, medications, special life circumstances? Other useful information includes sex, age, and current state of mind._
I am 28. Female. And I have GAD, with minor bouts of depression. Enneagram sx 4, 6, 8 "The Truth Teller". I feel like I relate to the Beta Quadra in Socionics by a video I watched, not sure how accurate it is. Here is the link 
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=a_RKzwf2BCw

_2. Study these two images http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8287/7704380682_4da6df716d.jpg and http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6005/6004664548_32c083ea9f_m.jpg . Which one do you prefer and why? How would you describe it?_
Both. For different reasons. The ocean one is simply beautiful. I don't think anyone would want to pass up a moment like that. It seems magical. So in a sense, that one. But the other one pulls me in because it seems more realistic. It isn't beautiful, but more real. The other seems like a dream. So I honestly can't really choose. I will say that the one with the lady makes me think she has a bicycle with a basket, holding fresh flowers. I imagine her in a smaller town in somewhere Europe. It screams happiness to me. Simplicity. The ocean one I can feel a cool breeze. The sound is beautiful. I can smell the water. It almost makes me in a more sad mood. It looks like the experience will end soon, and make me wonder if I will ever have it again. 

_3. Please describe yourself as a person if you were to introduce yourself to someone else like in a cover letter. What kind of person are you and why?_
I am just going to give the answer in a list of characteristics, in no particular order.
-bubbly/silly
-irritable
-cautious
-abstract
-possessive
-insecure
-witty
-impulsive 
-non-conformist
-strong-willed
-sensual
-understanding
-Stubborn
-perceptive
-forgiving (especially when I know they are remorseful)
-sarcastic
-shy yet fairly open
-fairly open sometimes to get more info from others
-more empathetic than sympathetic
-indecisive, yet I want it narrowed down and decided
-introspecting
-internally assuming, but curious
-can be very warm, yet suspicious
-temperamental
-intense
-passionate
-I read between the lines, and hardly ever take someone at their word

_4. What kind of person would you LIKE to be? Why? What kind of person would you NOT want to be? Why?_
I would love to be more self-less, brave and confident. I try to be self-less, but I feel like I don't do enough. I need a purpose, and I do feel like I know what it is, but I don't have the confidence to put it into action. My insecurities get in my way, and then I become depressed.

I would not wan to be superficial, or materialistic (although I do have my moments, but I don't like it about me). 

_5. Do you think there are any differences to how you described yourself and how people actually perceive you? How do you think others would describe you? If there are any discrepancies between these two that are you are aware of; do you know why exactly that is?_
This question has many layers actually. I feel like my small circle (I have deep relationships with about 4 people; My mom, my Husband (from high school), my sister, and my childhood best friend). These people I am quite confident see me the most accurate. Their most recent brief one-sentence description of me, is somewhat similar to the above. Keep in mind, they are ALL sensors. I may be one as well, but they find my way of thinking to be odd. They were as follows:

Best friend said : My Abstract thinking, and sarcasm. She went on to say that she loves how I get so riled up over certain things and how my passion runs so deep.

My Sister (the one i am closest to) said : The advice I give, my feisty'ness, and passion. )

My other sister said: My weirdness, sense of humor, and my 'smartness' lol

My husband said: My hot butt/'large breasts' and eyes LOL. But then, he said my heart and my brains. He thinks I am a genius evidently. He also thinks I am psychic, and I weird him out. He is an Se-dom, can you tell? :wink:

And my mom... My ultimate bestie of them all, and the one who knows me the best... said : My wisdom and "deepness".

_6. What in life do you find to be of importance? Why? If you are unsure you can always take the Value Test and post the results here. Do note that it helps if you narrow it down to 20 or ideally 10 values as suggested at stage 2._
Well here is the 2-step list. i will post the final results later...
Love - Sacrifice -	Desire - Truth - Insightfulness - Fashion - Reflection - Wittiness - Honesty - Making a difference - Passion - Trustworthiness - Depth - Simplicity - Clarity - Humor - Wonder - Philanthropy - Vision - Intuitiveness - Spirituality - Intimacy - Perceptiveness - Reasonableness
Conviction - Silliness - Charity - Empathy - Respect - Understanding - Wisdom - Fierceness

_7. How do you react to new situations in your life? Can you describe an event in your life where you were in an unknown situation? How did you deal with it?_
Depends. It takes a minute and a time to process new information. This always happens. I can adapt well, but I need time to wrap my head around things. If I don't have time to, then I feel like I am going through the motions but my brain hasn't quite caught up. Like for instance when you ride your bike really fast and the world is zooming by so quickly, that by the time you realize you just past a tree, you are way ahead of it. Hope that makes sense. I don't like uncharted territory because I haven't processed it yet. It isn't really the "new" part that I am uncomfortable with, because new can always be better. It is just the processing part.

_8. Please describe yourself when you are in a stressful situation. How do you act and why? Real life experiences are welcome._
Depends. If I am stressed out, it can go a couple different ways. I yell a lot. I get 'firey' sometimes. Less kind. More aggressive. I will over-eat. Then there is the side of me that if I don't feel comfortable, and I am overstimulated, I will get more extroverted and hyped out like. I do this out of nervousness. Yes, I can be silly and have fun in a normal comforting setting (actually I can be quite silly, but still calmer), but this is different then when I get nervous and exuberant anxious energy.


_9. Please describe yourself when you are in an enjoyable situation. How do you act and why? Real life experiences are welcome._
To be honest, I really don't remember the last time I was in one. When I am, I guess I just feel more alive. I feel like I can just relax and stop worrying about what is going on in life. It's nice to give my thoughts a rest. I always feel SO incredibly blessed, but just...stuck. I always beat myself up for not being as happy as I should be, because there are SO many people in this world that would look at my life as pure heaven. I feel shameful. I wish I could give those people all a better life. I feel like that would make mine happier. I don't feel like I am _living_ mine. I am to busy living in my head, longing for it to begin. I just feel stuck, I guess. My own caged bird, if you will. Please don't pity me. I hate pity lol. I am not the one who deserves it, because I am my own worst enemy. No one to blame but myself . I am just super honest and being open. Maybe that will indicate something in my type.

_10. Describe your relationship to socialization. How do you perceive one-on-one interaction? How do you perceive group interaction?_
I much prefer one-on-one. Maybe one-on-two  lol. Group interaction is stimulating at times. Hearing and seeing different people come together. The differences in each of them. The similarities. Their stories. But it can be way over-stimulating, and that is when I begin to act out of character. I begin to look like I have ADD. One-on-one, I am must more myself. Deeper. Relaxed. 

_11. Describe your relationship to society. What are the elements of it you hold important or unimportant (e.g. social norms, values, customs, traditions)? How do you see people as a whole?_
I feel society is blind. I want to wake them up. You know that dream everyone has at one time or another, where you see danger and you try screaming, but nothing comes out? That is how I feel. I do hold my faith on a pedestal. Not to be confused as religion/traditions. I don't really care much for organized religion. It takes away from the personal level or spirituality for ME. No judgement on others who feel otherwise. These are just my convictions.  I do value my heritage, and like to explore it, but I don't carry the traditions over with me. It is just awesome to know where I came from and to hear their stories. 

_12. Describe your relationship to authority. How do you perceive authority? What does it mean to you, and how do you deal with it?_
Authority is good for a structure. I mean, I like authority as more of a facilitator role I guess. IDK, maybe not. I am respectful to authority for their ability to help. But the minute they start abusing that privilege, I become very irked. 

_13. Describe your relationship to order and chaos. What do order and chaos mean to you? How do they manifest in your daily life?_
Too many things going on at one time can be exciting, but very very chaotic. Also, having a booked planner, is torture. I next to never, have more than 2 things to do during the week. My life is FILLED with chaos still, because I have 2 kids with High-Functioning Autism. Two 100 pound, untrained beasts (dogs ). And then, the Se-dom husband that is ADHD. I got exhausted just typing that lol. I grew up in a home of instability, chaos, and I was the oldest of 6. I was so much older, than the rest. They were a little 5pk and I was a teenager screaming for help lol. I ended up marrying my high school sweetheart, thinking I was escaping...but ended up making a life of chaos of my own. 

_14. What is it that you fear in life? Why? How does this fear manifest to you both in how you think and how you act?_
Safety. I think this mostly stems from my childhood of not feeling safe. So it may not even be a functional thing, but rather a deeply rooted psychological thing. This also transcends into great insecurities, which results in my inability to make my ideals a reality. If safety is assured than the sky is the limit. I also fear death, and leaving my kids behind to live in what I view as a self-mutilating world. I fear that the people in the world are being so blinded to the fact that they are slowly turning on each other and in the end are going to seal our fate as humanity. 

_15. What is it that you desire in life? What do you strive to achieve? Why? Where do you think these drives and desires stem from or are inspired by?_
To be confident, make a difference, and peace on Earth. Making a difference in someone's life. Making my mark. Experiencing all I can before I die. I wish I could turn this world around and change people's hearts. I think it just comes from my hope for a better future. I know I seem so pessimistic of the future, but I can't help it. It is just what I see happening all around me.

_16. a) What activities energize you most? b) What activities drain you most? Why?_
Energizes?... Laughing. Money (even though I hate to admit it, and I will give it away to the more needy every time I can, but it still energizes me). Watching shows or movies by myself. Losing weight . Connecting with someONE. I love hearing other peoples stories. Helping the 'helpless'. Getting out and seeing the daylight (feeling the sun on my face and it causing a tingle on my skin). Smelling the world lol. I love to experience the world in an observing manner. Reading (non-fiction mostly). Listening to sermons with a cup of coffee. Reading the Bible. Playing Mario Kart as a family, for chores (whoever loses that race has to do a chore). Playing Uno (board games) with the family. MUSIC. Also, the feeling I get when I helped someone see a new perspective, and it somehow made a difference. That is an amazing feeling. I also love when people acknowledge me. Like for instance, I had a friend before that came to me for advice on her marriage. I gave her so much to work with and a plan. She took it and ran. Today, her marriage is thriving, when it was near destruction. She hasn't once acknowledged my help, and it bothers me to put it lightly. I am fully aware that it too them to put in the work, but without my insights and plan of action, she would have never been where she was is now. She was ready to sign divorce papers. I made her see things in a whole new light. I don't want credit for the MARRIAGE, but rather acknowledgment, even if in private that I helped her see things different. 

Things that drain me? ... Too many people. Unhealthy relationships. Drama (even though it can be exciting to watch, and it seems to always find me). Expectations. HOUSEWORK OMG! :laughing:. Parenting (it is not easy). My weight control (also not easy). My thoughts sometimes. And having a busy schedule.


*Hope this gave at least an idea. Thank you all in advance. :happy:*


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## 68097 (Nov 20, 2013)

XSFX.

You appear to take the questions literally and go to sensory interpretations of things before you start abstracting. Your pessimism toward the future indicates low-order intuition in some form, but I'll leave the arguing as to which type to the others.

ETA: Just as a request to future participants in this thread: can we PLEASE keep it revolving around the OP? Let's not diverge off into random conversations, answering things for comparison with her type, etc. Maybe it's my Si-dom coming out, but keeping it on topic will help myself (and others) be able to read through the thread easily and track posts.


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## Deadly Decorum (Feb 23, 2014)

* *






SugarPlum said:


> _2. Study these two images http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8287/7704380682_4da6df716d.jpg and http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6005/6004664548_32c083ea9f_m.jpg . Which one do you prefer and why? How would you describe it?_
> Both. For different reasons. The ocean one is simply beautiful. I don't think anyone would want to pass up a moment like that. It seems magical. So in a sense, that one. But the other one pulls me in because it seems more realistic. It isn't beautiful, but more real. The other seems like a dream. So I honestly can't really choose. I will say that the one with the lady makes me think she has a bicycle with a basket, holding fresh flowers. I imagine her in a smaller town in somewhere Europe. It screams happiness to me. Simplicity. The ocean one I can feel a cool breeze. The sound is beautiful. I can smell the water. It almost makes me in a more sad mood. It looks like the experience will end soon, and make me wonder if I will ever have it again.


*Fe-Si-Ne. I see Fe in all of the value Judgments you make (beautiful, happy, simplistic), Si in judging whether things are realistic or unrealistic based on sensory impressions, the personal senses the image conjures (cool breeze, smelling the water, beautiful sounds), and the desire to experience an event again and again. Ne is clear in the re-imagining of the images, playing out the different things that could happen or be represented.*



SugarPlum said:


> _3. Please describe yourself as a person if you were to introduce yourself to someone else like in a cover letter. What kind of person are you and why?_
> I am just going to give the answer in a list of characteristics, in no particular order.
> -bubbly/silly
> -irritable
> ...


*The list strikes me as Ne, as I'm guessing you went about all what you know about yourself and kept playing out all the different things you can possibly be or represent. As for what lies within this list, again, there is a whole lot of Fe here, particularly the importance on forgiveness, especially when people are remorseful of what they've done wrong. Suspicious and internally assuming is Fe, as it's indicative of a quick judgment call you make towards people, and the willingness to trust and be open and see through a person is also Fe. Engaging in the object bro. Bubbly/silly is typically how xSFJs would describe themselves, and in most cases I'm inclined to agree. I'd say it's the Fe-Ne. There's also some Si and Ne in here (cautious, non-conformist).*



SugarPlum said:


> _4. What kind of person would you LIKE to be? Why? What kind of person would you NOT want to be? Why?_
> I would love to be more self-less, brave and confident. I try to be self-less, but I feel like I don't do enough. I need a purpose, and I do feel like I know what it is, but I don't have the confidence to put it into action. My insecurities get in my way, and then I become depressed.


*The urge to be selfless is Fe, especially the guilt when you don't give enough back. Fi typically finds the merits in selfishness. It simply doesn't concern itself with coming across as selfless, and often considers that notion naive.*



SugarPlum said:


> _5. Do you think there are any differences to how you described yourself and how people actually perceive you? How do you think others would describe you? If there are any discrepancies between these two that are you are aware of; do you know why exactly that is?_
> This question has many layers actually. I feel like my small circle (I have deep relationships with about 4 people; My mom, my Husband (from high school), my sister, and my childhood best friend). These people I am quite confident see me the most accurate. Their most recent brief one-sentence description of me, is somewhat similar to the above. Keep in mind, they are ALL sensors. I may be one as well, but they find my way of thinking to be odd. They were as follows:
> 
> Best friend said : My Abstract thinking, and sarcasm. She went on to say that she loves how I get so riled up over certain things and how my passion runs so deep.
> ...


*Focus on people here, going into grand detail of all the people you know and love. Fe. 

"This question has many layers"= Ne.

I love how you polled assessments from people in order to answer this question. This is Je, as Je extroverts it's decisions and judgements, hence looking into other people's opinions for clarity. Clearly Fe in your case.*



SugarPlum said:


> _6. What in life do you find to be of importance? Why? If you are unsure you can always take the Value Test and post the results here. Do note that it helps if you narrow it down to 20 or ideally 10 values as suggested at stage 2._
> Well here is the 2-step list. i will post the final results later...
> Love - Sacrifice -	Desire - Truth - Insightfulness - Fashion - Reflection - Wittiness - Honesty - Making a difference - Passion - Trustworthiness - Depth - Simplicity - Clarity - Humor - Wonder - Philanthropy - Vision - Intuitiveness - Spirituality - Intimacy - Perceptiveness - Reasonableness
> Conviction - Silliness - Charity - Empathy - Respect - Understanding - Wisdom - Fierceness


*Buzzwords like these are ambiguous, open to interpretation, subjective, and vast in their meaning. Anyone could say these things about themselves. Making a difference, philanthropy, understanding, charity and empathy fit the Fe theme however. Silliness is like the xSFJ keyword. I'll guess clarity is maybe Ti, but again, most of these words tell me little to nothing.*



SugarPlum said:


> _7. How do you react to new situations in your life? Can you describe an event in your life where you were in an unknown situation? How did you deal with it?_
> Depends. It takes a minute and a time to process new information. This always happens. I can adapt well, but I need time to wrap my head around things. If I don't have time to, then I feel like I am going through the motions but my brain hasn't quite caught up. Like for instance when you ride your bike really fast and the world is zooming by so quickly, that by the time you realize you just past a tree, you are way ahead of it. Hope that makes sense. I don't like uncharted territory because I haven't processed it yet. It isn't really the "new" part that I am uncomfortable with, because new can always be better. It is just the processing part.


*Si. You don't engage in unknown territory willingly and readily because you use sensory impressions to perceive your surroundings, hence the need for processing and slowly easing up into unknown sensory dynamics.*



SugarPlum said:


> _8. Please describe yourself when you are in a stressful situation. How do you act and why? Real life experiences are welcome._
> Depends. If I am stressed out, it can go a couple different ways. I yell a lot. I get 'firey' sometimes. Less kind. More aggressive. I will over-eat. Then there is the side of me that if I don't feel comfortable, and I am overstimulated, I will get more extroverted and hyped out like. I do this out of nervousness. Yes, I can be silly and have fun in a normal comforting setting (actually I can be quite silly, but still calmer), but this is different then when I get nervous and exuberant anxious energy.


*Interesting you get more hyped out and reactionary when stressed. That's not me at all. I withdraw. I snap only f I suppress everything to the point of being unable to hold it in anymore. Strikes me as Fe anyway. Judgements turned outward. Over-eating under stress is a common Si phenomenon. Comforting experience played out in a repetitive, savory way. Subjective in nature.*




SugarPlum said:


> _9. Please describe yourself when you are in an enjoyable situation. How do you act and why? Real life experiences are welcome._
> To be honest, I really don't remember the last time I was in one. When I am, I guess I just feel more alive. I feel like I can just relax and stop worrying about what is going on in life. It's nice to give my thoughts a rest. I always feel SO incredibly blessed, but just...stuck. I always beat myself up for not being as happy as I should be, because there are SO many people in this world that would look at my life as pure heaven. I feel shameful. I wish I could give those people all a better life. I feel like that would make mine happier. I don't feel like I am _living_ mine. I am to busy living in my head, longing for it to begin. I just feel stuck, I guess. My own caged bird, if you will. Please don't pity me. I hate pity lol. I am not the one who deserves it, because I am my own worst enemy. No one to blame but myself . I am just super honest and being open. Maybe that will indicate something in my type.


*First portion is probably Si-Ne in some fashion. The rest is blatantly Fe.*



SugarPlum said:


> _10. Describe your relationship to socialization. How do you perceive one-on-one interaction? How do you perceive group interaction?_
> I much prefer one-on-one. Maybe one-on-two  lol. Group interaction is stimulating at times. Hearing and seeing different people come together. The differences in each of them. The similarities. Their stories. But it can be way over-stimulating, and that is when I begin to act out of character. I begin to look like I have ADD. One-on-one, I am must more myself. Deeper. Relaxed.


*Again,Fe Differences of people is probably Fe-Ne. Liking to be around people whom you can "be yourself" around is Fe. Fi doesn't have to worry about that really, as they don't engage in the object that way. It's finding people who get them or that they relate to that's more important in a sense. Scatterbrainedness when the environment is over stimulating is Si-Ne. I relate.*



SugarPlum said:


> _11. Describe your relationship to society. What are the elements of it you hold important or unimportant (e.g. social norms, values, customs, traditions)? How do you see people as a whole?_
> I feel society is blind. I want to wake them up. You know that dream everyone has at one time or another, where you see danger and you try screaming, but nothing comes out? That is how I feel. I do hold my faith on a pedestal. Not to be confused as religion/traditions. I don't really care much for organized religion. It takes away from the personal level or spirituality for ME. No judgement on others who feel otherwise. These are just my convictions.  I do value my heritage, and like to explore it, but I don't carry the traditions over with me. It is just awesome to know where I came from and to hear their stories.


*Again, a lot of Fe. There hasn't been much evidence for Ti, btw, hinting at an unconscious usage. See why I originally typed you as an Fe dominate rather than an Si dominate? No judgement on others who feel otherwise is an especially strong Fe value, and struck out to me the most. Fi doesn't have as much patience for those who disagree with their values, lol. Si-Ne, in the sense you take known sensory data and play out all the variables.*



SugarPlum said:


> _12. Describe your relationship to authority. How do you perceive authority? What does it mean to you, and how do you deal with it?_
> Authority is good for a structure. I mean, I like authority as more of a facilitator role I guess. IDK, maybe not. I am respectful to authority for their ability to help. But the minute they start abusing that privilege, I become very irked.


*Fe with a disvalue of Te. I wonder if you hate those who care more about money rather than the altruism of people.*



SugarPlum said:


> _13. Describe your relationship to order and chaos. What do order and chaos mean to you? How do they manifest in your daily life?_
> Too many things going on at one time can be exciting, but very very chaotic. Also, having a booked planner, is torture. I next to never, have more than 2 things to do during the week. My life is FILLED with chaos still, because I have 2 kids with High-Functioning Autism. Two 100 pound, untrained beasts (dogs ). And then, the Se-dom husband that is ADHD. I got exhausted just typing that lol. I grew up in a home of instability, chaos, and I was the oldest of 6. I was so much older, than the rest. They were a little 5pk and I was a teenager screaming for help lol. I ended up marrying my high school sweetheart, thinking I was escaping...but ended up making a life of chaos of my own.


*This is intended as a conceptual question. It's taken it literally and described through sensory things, hinting at sensor over intuitive.

Typical Si anecdotes, as well as the typical Si tendency towards a hatred of an overwhelming, over stimulating environment. Si doesn't like too many things going on at once.*



SugarPlum said:


> _14. What is it that you fear in life? Why? How does this fear manifest to you both in how you think and how you act?_
> Safety. I think this mostly stems from my childhood of not feeling safe. So it may not even be a functional thing, but rather a deeply rooted psychological thing. This also transcends into great insecurities, which results in my inability to make my ideals a reality. If safety is assured than the sky is the limit. I also fear death, and leaving my kids behind to live in what I view as a self-mutilating world. I fear that the people in the world are being so blinded to the fact that they are slowly turning on each other and in the end are going to seal our fate as humanity.


*Si in the need for safety, citing past experiences as a reason behind your thoughts and fears, and a morbid view of reality (self-mutilating world). Fe in the focus on your children being left behind, the desires for people to get along and the overall focus on the well being of humanity.*



SugarPlum said:


> _15. What is it that you desire in life? What do you strive to achieve? Why? Where do you think these drives and desires stem from or are inspired by?_
> To be confident, make a difference, and peace on Earth. Making a difference in someone's life. Making my mark. Experiencing all I can before I die. I wish I could turn this world around and change people's hearts. I think it just comes from my hope for a better future. I know I seem so pessimistic of the future, but I can't help it. It is just what I see happening all around me.


*Fe-Ne. Wanting to leave a positive impact on people, and using Ne to change the world in order to achieve such a goal.*



SugarPlum said:


> _16. a) What activities energize you most? b) What activities drain you most? Why?_
> Energizes?... Laughing. Money (even though I hate to admit it, and I will give it away to the more needy every time I can, but it still energizes me). Watching shows or movies by myself. Losing weight . Connecting with someONE. I love hearing other peoples stories. Helping the 'helpless'. Getting out and seeing the daylight (feeling the sun on my face and it causing a tingle on my skin). Smelling the world lol. I love to experience the world in an observing manner. Reading (non-fiction mostly). Listening to sermons with a cup of coffee. Reading the Bible. Playing Mario Kart as a family, for chores (whoever loses that race has to do a chore). Playing Uno (board games) with the family. MUSIC. Also, the feeling I get when I helped someone see a new perspective, and it somehow made a difference. That is an amazing feeling. I also love when people acknowledge me. Like for instance, I had a friend before that came to me for advice on her marriage. I gave her so much to work with and a plan. She took it and ran. Today, her marriage is thriving, when it was near destruction. She hasn't once acknowledged my help, and it bothers me to put it lightly. I am fully aware that it too them to put in the work, but without my insights and plan of action, she would have never been where she was is now. She was ready to sign divorce papers. I made her see things in a whole new light. I don't want credit for the MARRIAGE, but rather acknowledgment, even if in private that I helped her see things different.


*Fe feast. Love the guilt towards money, and the desire to donate it. Si in all the subjective sensory impressions (tingle on my skin, smelling the world. You can only get a glimpse of these things, rather than Se, which would report the ways sensory objects feel and taste in more direct terms. Essentially, you can't photograph Si, whereas you can photograph Se). All of this follows with an Si anecdote followed by a Ne desire to encourage people to view the world in different perspectives.*



SugarPlum said:


> Things that drain me? ... Too many people. Unhealthy relationships. Drama (even though it can be exciting to watch, and it seems to always find me). Expectations. HOUSEWORK OMG! :laughing:. Parenting (it is not easy). My weight control (also not easy). My thoughts sometimes. And having a busy schedule.


*Wonder if these draining thoughts are Ne-Ti. A busy schedule hints at Si. Even more Fe, with focus on people ethics yet again. Being caught up in drama? So Fe. Fi hates that sort of shit.*




This is a rinse and repeat of your previous thread, which is not a bad thing as it's much more user friendly for new on-lookers who want to take a crack at typing you. My typing remains the same. Ambiverted ESFJ. There is little to no Ti, hinting at an unconscious usage. That means Ti exists, and is able to be put to use, but remains your weakest function. Fe-Si-Ne will default before Ti. Ne is definitely stronger than Ti, and the bulk of your posts is just Fe porn. Your Fe is certainly stronger than mine. Idk, I just can't see ISFJ for you. I think you're an Fe dom.


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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

Hi, @hoopla. Thank you for your input, again. I know I am probably tiring you out lol. With that being said, I do have to say that the whole purpose of this new thread was to ask more questions and have no preconceived notions. I know that is a hard thing to do, because of the previous thread. I know you gave your feedback for each answer, but I feel like you moreso dug out things that you could see as Fe-Si-Ne, and maybe unknowingly justified some. I don't think anyone that would have read this for the first time would have labeled it ESFJ right off the bat. A few of the things you gave feedback on, you added your own Si-opinion on or misinterpreted. And some of the things, seemed more of a stretch to label as Fe or whatever. You went into this with a prior opinion that I am ESFJ, and so that is what you looked for. It wasn't a fresh slate, and that is why I almost didn't do this second post in the first place. You will probably disagree and maybe take offense to what I am saying. I am truly sorry if you feel like I just spit in your face. I didn't. I just feel this was an unfair and slightly inaccurate analysis. The previous thread, I could definitely see why people went to Fe dom. But in the beginning, I was getting a LOT of IxFP. 

I wanted to clarify that I turned to my sisters and mom for their perspective, so I had something to tell you guys. I read somewhere it helps to have others' opinions, other than just your own. I feel like I agree completely. They were spot on. Yet, you folks are getting a way different vibe. I chalk this up to nervous energy. And on the part where it talked about one-on-one, I didn't say that I prefer to be around people that I can be myself with. I was saying that I don't act myself when around a lot of people, therefore I prefer to be in a one-on-one setting. There is absolutely no way this can be made into a Fe vs Fi thing. This is an introversion thing. Not sure why this is something you guys can't accept lol. I am not at ease in the world, and do not like being in group settings. I am a hermit. I say I don't like booked schedules, because extroverts love to be busy. With something. I can NOT see an ESFJ not going anywhere for weeks at a time. I am perfectly content with being inside and doing introverted things. Because they make me happy . Now if you are having a hard time seeing Ti over Ne, then maybe it's because I am not ISFJ either. IDK.

When everyone keeps saying things are Si for me, I kind of feel like it is Se soaking in all the sensory and then feeding it to Ni, that makes the impression and meaning to me. I also just read this morning, that low order Se (especially inferior) is the function to blame for a love-hate relationship with money. I am too materialistic to be high Si. My Sister , Grandma, and Aunt are all very frugal. Preserving. I am not. The Fe may be correct because I feel guilty about it, but I do think it is Se. I read through all of the "inferior" functions. @angelcat , said that helped her out a lot in her typing journey. The ONLY introverted function that made semi sense was Ni. But I know I am not an ESFP, so that is out of the question. The inferior Ti did not resonate at all. In-fact, the one that fit like a glove was inferior Se. I could accept inferior Ne or Te as well. THIS should say something. When I am stressed, overwhelmed, and anxious... I turn into a sloppy extrovert. If I were an extrovert, I think I will turn in-wards, because that is what happens when your inferior is introverted.

I am not saying ESFJ is NOT possible, but I just feel like it just isn't me. And there are absolutely NO reasons I don't want to be one. None at all. I think they are lovely. I am surrounded by them. Think about it this way for a minute. IF I were in-fact an ESFJ, don't you think by now, I would have embraced it, because it is what everyone is throwing at me...? I mean, seems to me an Fe-DOM, would really really take how others view them as a next to sure thing. I on the other hand, WANT to accept it (that may be a aux-Fe), but I just CAN"T because it doesn't ring true, to my own subjective view of myself. Who I KNOW I am. That to me, is Ni, Si, or even Fi-dom.

So why is it, you see little to no Ti? What is it in THIS thread that you find Ti to be completely omitted? 

I feel like I use Se, but sloppily. I also do feel like my T, whichever it is, is lower. I am not sure which side of the F coin I land on. And I am next to POSITIVE I am an introvert. Fe-aux would then make sense. But as you all have trouble with, is if I am an Si-dom. Not sure I am sold on that either. 

Can someone explain why I feel like I fit the Beta Quadra perfectly? Alpha, mayyybe ( I mean, slightly). But Beta, really just hit home.

Hoopla, I really hope you didn't take this wrong. Your help has been very much appreciated. I just don't want to agree, just because everybody hops on board, yuh know? I don't want to settle on anything unless I am fully convinced. And I just can't bring myself to see it this way.

Is there ANY other type/functions that you see as plausible (not ISFJ)? So sorry to be your headache lol. Yours too @angelcat.

Talk to you all later. xoxo


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## 68097 (Nov 20, 2013)

SugarPlum said:


> And on the part where it talked about one-on-one, I didn't say that I prefer to be around people that I can be myself with. I was saying that I don't act myself when around a lot of people, therefore I prefer to be in a one-on-one setting. There is absolutely no way this can be made into a Fe vs Fi thing. This is an introversion thing.


Not sure that's true. Fe is more likely to get hyped up by its environment and act less like "itself" around a group, regardless of where it is in the function stack. Including in introverts. Introverts can look like extroverts in a group, but usually it involves Fe.



> I am not at ease in the world, and do not like being in group settings. I am a hermit. I say I don't like booked schedules, because extroverts love to be busy. With something. I can NOT see an ESFJ not going anywhere for weeks at a time. I am perfectly content with being inside and doing introverted things. Because they make me happy . Now if you are having a hard time seeing Ti over Ne, then maybe it's because I am not xSFJ.


 @hoopla said you were an ambivert, meaning you lead with Fe but are not a social extrovert. There is a distinction. Not all extroverts are social. Extroverted in Jung merely means you lead with an extroverted function. 



> When everyone keeps saying things are Si for me, I kind of feel like it is Se soaking in all the sensory and then feeding it to Ni, that makes the impression and meaning to me. I also just read this morning, that low order Se (especially inferior) is the function to blame for a love-hate relationship with money. I am too materialistic to be high Si. My Sister , Grandma, and Aunt are all very frugal. Preserving. I am not. The Fe may be correct because I feel guilty about it, but I do think it is Se. I read through all of the "inferior" functions.


Not sure how accurate this is, but I've read Si-dom/auxes are the most likely to compare themselves to other SJs and conclude that they are not one, because of how "different" they are. I know it certainly kept me from admitting my true type for about three months. Because... my mom is an SJ, and my best friend is an SJ, and I'm NOTHING LIKE THEM. They are the iconic image of Si in my mind, and I do not fit! 

That being said, I don't know if you're Si or not. I'm just pointing out that not being "like" the SJs in your life doesn't mean you're not Si.

I could buy Ni as a lower function, but not as a dominant. Not unless I saw massive shifts in the quality of your answers. 



> Think about it this way for a minute. IF I were in-fact an ESFJ, don't you think by now, I would have embraced it, because it is what everyone is throwing at me...? I mean, seems to me an Fe-DOM, would really really take how others view them as a next to sure thing. I on the other hand, WANT to accept it (that may be a aux-Fe), but I just CAN"T because it doesn't ring true, to my own subjective view of myself. Who I KNOW I am. That to me, is Ni, Si, or even Fi -dom.


No, they wouldn't just embrace it. Their Si might get hung up on the details of it, in comparing to other SJs they know, and balk. 

Like I said, I don't know what your type is, but your arguments against SJ aren't disqualifies for SJ.


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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

Can somebody give me questions that would focus on the intuition scale? I loved how @TelepathicGoose gave me the question on whether I valued Fe or Si more. And the one @shinynotshiny gave on the book club. And @Arrow , if and when you have time. If you wanted to hop over to here, so it is more fresh. No pressure.

Anyone?


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## 68097 (Nov 20, 2013)

Add-on: if SFJ isn't possible, I _could_ see you as an ISFP. 

Out of curiosity, why do you think ESFP is off the table? (And please don't say: "because my husband is one.")


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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

* I could buy Ni as a lower function, but not as a dominant. Not unless I saw massive shifts in the quality of your answers.*

Okay, so... What was it, for example, in alittlebear's answers that screamed high Ni? I didn't really see it. I saw Fe, and maybe even Ti. I didn't notice the Ni-Se axes really (not sayig it wasn't there).

I talked to Loony Deliria (INFJ 4w3) https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTNSGrDYNMT46g7_v1wb3Lw
on FB about what Ni is like. I told her a bit about the the way I see things, and the way I see my thoughts, and how they're all in images. I explained it's like a constant movie player etc. She said she really thought I could be high Ni, after our conversation. 

Anyway, we will see how this goes. Thanks, @angelcat. BTW- I hope things are going good with your novel!


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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

angelcat said:


> Add-on: if SFJ isn't possible, I _could_ see you as an ISFP.
> 
> Out of curiosity, why do you think ESFP is off the table? (And please don't say: "because my husband is one.")


lol, I actually wasn't going to say that . 

Because I am too chicken shit for anything remotely dangerous. I don't live by the mantra "live and let live". I don't take things at face value. There is always something beyond the surface. The surface never tells the truth, to me. I am not active etc. What makes YOU think it _isn't_ off the table?


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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

I resonate, a LOT.


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## 68097 (Nov 20, 2013)

SugarPlum said:


> * I could buy Ni as a lower function, but not as a dominant. Not unless I saw massive shifts in the quality of your answers.*
> 
> Okay, so... What was it, for example, in alittlebear's answers that screamed high Ni? I didn't really see it. I saw Fe, and maybe even Ti. I didn't notice the Ni-Se axes. I talked to Loony Deliria (INFJ 4w3) https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTNSGrDYNMT46g7_v1wb3Lw
> on FB about what Ni is like. I told her a bit about the the way I see things, and the way I see my thoughts. They are all in images. I explained it like a movie player etc. She said she really thought I could be high Ni, after the conversation.
> ...


You just don't feel like one to me. I don't see that fierce Ni intensity in you, nor do your answers come across to me as able to peel away the layers of superficiality around an object and find its essence and individualized truth. 

Maybe I'm wrong. 

You need a real Ni-dom to ask you something that only a Ni would interpret in a particular way.



SugarPlum said:


> Because I am too chicken shit for anything remotely dangerous. I don't live by the mantra "live and let live". I don't take things at face value. There is always something beyond the surface. The surface never tells the truth, to me. I am not active etc.


I'd suggest the first sentence rules out Se altogether. I know at least one INXJ who does stupid, dangerous things... or did, before he destroyed his nervous system. One too many reckless stunts, I suppose. 

Se is stereotyped unfairly as a restless danger-seeking function. It's really not. It's active seeking of new experiences, and in SPs, that is the center of their focus. There is absolutely no hesitation in entering into the unknown in NJ/SP types, because what is unknown is completely exciting, unlike the NP/SJ types, whose Si wants information beforehand.

Few people take things at entirely face value. Those that do are inhibited and dwelling only in their dominant functions. 

Being active is not Se. A Se is just as likely to sit on their butt in front of the TV as anyone. 



> What makes YOU think it _isn't_ off the table?


No reason. Just asking questions.


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

You don't really seem Fe to me,especially not dominant.I could _kinda_ see it in that old thread(actually more like I could justify what most others thought) but I'm not feeling it.It's just my "gut feeling" lol,so don't ask much and feel free to ignore me


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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

Angelcat... what I was trying to illustrate is that I am too chicken to go skydiving etc. Things that are thrill seeking. I love experiences, but not when danger is involved. I look at certain roller coaster, and see that all it would take is one malfunction. No thanks. am not stranger to being impulsive from time to time. Intoxicating myself "recklessly". I am also very quick when it come to acting in an emergency, as in action wise. I don't freeze up. That has to be Se somewhere. No? 

But see, the thing is, I don't know how much of this has to do with my GAD.


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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

Living dead said:


> You don't really seem Fe to me,especially not dominant.I could _kinda_ see it in that old thread(actually more like I could justify what most others thought) but I'm not feeling it.It's just my "gut feeling" lol,so don't ask much and feel free to ignore me


Yeah, not sure what happened in that other thread. Although, I am not opposed to Fe. I just really feel like it's aux if at all. Actually I could see that. It would make sense having a Pi function first followed by Fe. That would explain me saying I am an outspoken introvert.


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## 68097 (Nov 20, 2013)

SugarPlum said:


> Angelcat... what I was trying to illustrate is that I am to chicken to go skydiving etc. Things that are thrill seeking. I love experiences, but not when danger is involved. I look at certain roller coaster, and see that all it would take is one malfunction. No thanks. am not stranger to being impulsive from time to time. Intoxicating myself "recklessly". I am also very quick when it come to acting in an emergency, as in action wise. I don't freeze up. That has to be Se somewhere. No?


... no. Not really indicators of Se.

Any type can get recklessly intoxicated. Any type can be impulsive. Any type can react quickly in an emergency.

Se is objective memories (not colored through subjective impressions, other than those of what the situation symbolized, through Ni) and a tendency to need no previous experience to feel comfortable in a new situation. It is an active pushing away from what is known into the unknown.

Si is subjective memories (colored through subjective impressions, flowing out into greater possibilities and multiple perspectives through Ne) and a tendency to be careful and desire previous experience before heading into a new situation. 

Let's try this. Hypothetical situation. 

After witnessing a horrific crime, you have to go into the witness protection program. They tell you that you cannot see any of your old friends, or contact them. The same with your extended family. You cannot use any of your old usernames, or frequent any of your favorite websites (that have log-ins). You are given a new first and last name, moved to a new city, and given a new job that you have never had before.

How would you cope? What would your reaction be? Could you do it easily? Or would you need SOMETHING familiar in order to deal with it?


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

I plan on going through your post later today, but I'd like to ask a question:

- What is the self? Describe it.

I'm interested in your approach to this question, but I don't know if it will say anything about your personality.

To anyone following this thread: all questions in this thread are for SugarPlum.


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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

angelcat said:


> After witnessing a horrific crime, you have to go into the witness protection program. They tell you that you cannot see any of your old friends, or contact them. The same with your extended family. You cannot use any of your old usernames, or frequent any of your favorite websites (that have log-ins). You are given a new first and last name, moved to a new city, and given a new job that you have never had before.
> 
> How would you cope? What would your reaction be? Could you do it easily? Or would you need SOMETHING familiar in order to deal with it?


So basically I am dead to everyone? Ehhh. This would be hard. My mom...and sister. I could not imagine never talking with them again. I don't think this would be easy for ANYONE. If I could stay somehow in contact with just them. Through a burner phone or something. At LEAST say my goodbyes and explain it is for everyone's good. Especially My mom. 

This all being said, it would be a hard adjustment just because of emotional ties to a few people. But, to protect my immediate family (husband and kids), I would do it. The starting over new, and fresh I would embrace completely. Just the fact that life continued here, with my mom and siblings , while I essentially died to them. I could leave my friends and even my other extended family no problem. Especially for safety. Can I please just have my mom and siblings in this scenario? How about they witnessed the same thing, and we are all in the program together? No? Okay, fine. Yeah, it would be HARD, but I would do it. I would be homesick for sure, or maybe more like "mom-sick". And yes, I would need SOMETHING that has a connection to her. I would need to find something clever that would not be an obvious symbol of her, but I would need it.


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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

shinynotshiny said:


> I plan on going through your post later today, but I'd like to ask a question:
> 
> - What is the self? Describe it.
> 
> ...


Funny you should ask this, because for the longest time, I thought this was evidence of me being Si-dom. Who knows, it still may be. Or maybe doesn't mean anything accept I am weird lol. Let's see if I can articulate this properly in words.

But okay, so you know how some people say things like; "I can see my self from the outside looking in"? Well, I am kind of the opposite actually. Please do not think I need meds, because this is some weird s***. I feel like my soul and my body are 2 completely different things (I know, well duh). But it is extreme in my case. I sometimes look at my hands for instance and think how weird it is that I am IN this body. Like I think of myself as a soul. The body is my host, but it doesn't feel like it's mine...? Gosh, I really don't know how to explain this. I guess it is the opposite of the "outer body experience" because I can actually FEEL my soul IN my body. Like I feel like I look through my soul, into the world, not actually through my eyes. Okay this probably either freaked you all out, or made no sense at all.

Let's make this more simple. I feel like one's 'self' is one's soul. Think of the wisps on Brave. I kind of see our souls like that. They enter whatever body God assigns them to, temporarily, until one day they will bring on an external image (when Christ returns). Sorry, I didn't mean to take it that direction. And I didn't get that from the Bible, because I have not ran into that description thus far. 

Alright, think of a caterpillar (soul), snuggled in a temporary cocoon (our Earthly hosts), that emerges as a beautiful, unique butterfly (our eternal glorified body in Christ). The butterfly catches the essence of what the cocoons inner beauty was, in an external way. This is why butterflies mean SO much to me. I see them as a blue print of the human.


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## 68097 (Nov 20, 2013)

SugarPlum said:


> So basically I am dead to everyone? Ehhh. This would be hard. My mom...and sister. I could not imagine never talking with them again. I don't think this would be easy for ANYONE. If I could stay somehow in contact with just them. Through a burner phone or something. At LEAST say my goodbyes and explain it is for everyone's good. Especially My mom.
> 
> This all being said, it would be a hard adjustment just because of emotional ties to a few people. But, to protect my immediate family (husband and kids), I would do it. The starting over new, and fresh I would embrace completely. Just the fact that life continued here, with my mom and siblings , while I essentially died to them. I could leave my friends and even my other extended family no problem. Especially for safety. Can I please just have my mom and siblings in this scenario? How about they witnessed the same thing, and we are all in the program together? No? Okay, fine. Yeah, it would be HARD, but I would do it. I would be homesick for sure, or maybe more like "mom-sick". And yes, I would need SOMETHING that has a connection to her. I would need to find something clever that would not be an obvious symbol of her, but I would need it.


Emotion. Family. Etc.

That aside, HOW would you adapt to a new life? Abandon your old one (forget about the people for a minute; I'm asking for your responses to this totally unfamiliar life, and your behavior) or would you slide back into usual behaviors? Would you continue seeking out the same sorts of things as before?

If someone asked you to come up with something completely new every Monday for a month, could you do it? Something that was nothing like the last week's ... whatever? (Painting, story, dress, etc.)

Project Runway is a good example of this. Ne and Si often lose, Se and Ni often win. Why is that, do you think?


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

SugarPlum said:


> Funny you should ask this, because for the longest time, I thought this was evidence of me being Si-dom. Who knows, it still may be. Or maybe doesn't mean anything accept I am weird lol. Let's see if I can articulate this properly in words.
> 
> But okay, so you know how some people say things like; "I can see my self from the outside looking in"? Well, I am kind of the opposite actually. Please do not think I need meds, because this is some weird s***. I feel like my soul and my body are 2 completely different things (I know, well duh). But it is extreme in my case. I sometimes look at my hands for instance and think how weird it is that I am IN this body. Like I think of myself as a soul. The body is my host, but it doesn't feel like it's mine...? Gosh, I really don't know how to explain this. I guess it is the opposite of the "outer body experience" because I can actually FEEL my soul IN my body. Like I feel like I look through my soul, into the world, not actually through my eyes. Okay this probably either freaked you all out, or made no sense at all.
> 
> ...


Nope, didn't freak me out. No worries 

I have some questions before responding to your post. 

Can you talk about your concept of a soul a little bit more? Do you have a vision of your soul, for example?


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## Dreamer777 (Jan 15, 2011)

SugarPlum said:


> So basically I am dead to everyone? Ehhh. This would be hard. My mom...and sister. I could not imagine never talking with them again. I don't think this would be easy for ANYONE. If I could stay somehow in contact with just them. Through a burner phone or something. At LEAST say my goodbyes and explain it is for everyone's good. Especially My mom.
> 
> This all being said, it would be a hard adjustment just because of emotional ties to a few people. But, to protect my immediate family (husband and kids), I would do it. The starting over new, and fresh I would embrace completely. Just the fact that life continued here, with my mom and siblings , while I essentially died to them. I could leave my friends and even my other extended family no problem. Especially for safety. Can I please just have my mom and siblings in this scenario? How about they witnessed the same thing, and we are all in the program together? No? Okay, fine. Yeah, it would be HARD, but I would do it. I would be homesick for sure, or maybe more like "mom-sick". And yes, I would need SOMETHING that has a connection to her. I would need to find something clever that would not be an obvious symbol of her, but I would need it.


Sugar Plum, what if you had the choice to tell the police that you refuse to be a witness and will not testify, would you rather choose that choice? (you actually would have that choice, no one can be forced to be a witness and testify. Most of the times people refuse to be witnesses because they prefer to put the safety of their family first, and if that is the way to keep the family safe is by not testifying, then they choose that way.) I live in small Town, and it's normal for many people to not testify and not be a witness if the people involved aren't really a close part of their life. Otherwise retaliation issues would be neverending in this small Town. Sometimes it's best to just not get involved and refuse to be a witness. If the victims are not a close part of my life, i would decline to be a witness. Living in small Town is very difficult. So i think small Town people know the prices for being witnesses, it can be a very high price to pay with the safety of your life and your family life's. So we won't cooperate with the police if it endangers especially our family. I think about my family first to not endanger them. And the easiest way is to not testify and not be a witness, then you are no longer a threat to the person who committed the crime.

I guess it depends on exactly what the crime is, where it happened, what are the dynamics of the Town it happened in, what type of person is the offender, why did they do it, i would have to consider all of those reasons to decide if i would testify or not. And usually i will not testify, not at the stake of putting my family in danger.

Now if it was to renounce Jesus, then i have to bite the bullet on that no matter the cost of safety to my family or not. Renouncing Jesus i cannot do. Forgiving people whether they commit a horrible crime or not, is something Jesus tells me i have to do to follow him. 

Just sayin....

Sorry i didn't get back to you on the other thread, i'll try to keep up with this thread if it doesn't go too far too fast, cause then it gets too overwhelming for me. I haven't been through everything, was just browsing through, so give me a little time to go through this thread and i'll catch up to you.

I do feel a NFP kindred spirit with you and i don't know why if you're not an NFP? Even more so INFP???

I am wondering if you are an INFP who has always been surrounded by alot of extroverts and living constantly in a more extroverted lifestyle, but deep down you may be an INFP???

Anyhows, give me a little time to catch up. The last thread just got so full so fast that i couldn't really find energy to keep up with it. 

Hope everyone can help you figure it out. All the best to you. 

EDIT ADD MORE:

And also even if the victim was our own family or someone close in this small Town, sometimes still we will not testify and be a witness because we would just see it as more loss of life and more heartbreak, more retaliation, stuff like that.....


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

@Dreamer777

Let's try not to influence SugarPlum's answers.


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## Deadly Decorum (Feb 23, 2014)

SugarPlum said:


> Hi, @<span class="highlight"><i><a href="http://personalitycafe.com/member.php?u=78336" target="_blank">hoopla</a></i></span>. Thank you for your input, again. I know I am probably tiring you out lol.




You're not tiring me out. Typing you is entirely voluntary.



SugarPlum said:


> With that being said, I do have to say that the whole purpose of this new thread was to ask more questions and have no preconceived notions. I know that is a hard thing to do, because of the previous thread. I know you gave your feedback for each answer, but I feel like you moreso dug out things that you could see as Fe-Si-Ne, and maybe unknowingly justified some. I don't think anyone that would have read this for the first time would have labeled it ESFJ right off the bat. A few of the things you gave feedback on, you added your own Si-opinion on or misinterpreted. And some of the things, seemed more of a stretch to label as Fe or whatever. You went into this with a prior opinion that I am ESFJ, and so that is what you looked for. It wasn't a fresh slate, and that is why I almost didn't do this second post in the first place. You will probably disagree and maybe take offense to what I am saying. I am truly sorry if you feel like I just spit in your face. I didn't. I just feel this was an unfair and slightly inaccurate analysis. The previous thread, I could definitely see why people went to Fe dom. But in the beginning, I was getting a LOT of IxFP.


I certainly am not offended, nor do I want to spit in your face. It's a good thing you're questioning my analysis; it shows you think for yourself (which does not rule out Fe dom or aux btw; Fe users are paired with introverted functions, and Fe can certainly think for itself if a harmful opinion that hurts the group is offered. That's why I showed you that Tyra video in the first place).

It's plausible my analysis was a subject of the confirmation bias, definitely. Reviewing your thread, some of what you said could indicate Feeling in general, but most of it is indicative of Je, and much of it is anti Fi. The value of selflessness for example, would have made me think Fe if I had never seen your previous thread and knew nothing about you. I didn't label you ESFJ off the bat. I analyzed it carefully, and even noticed some of what you said either told me nothing or could have gone either way (5. Is just indicative of Je in general. 6. Tells me almost nothing, but again, some of those words could be associated with Fe, since they indicate extroverted people ethics), but the more I read, the more Fe was the most likely answer. Just because I used my "Si" to analyze your answers does not mean I'm wrong, and you don't have any proof that 's what I used to answer your questions anyway. Most of them are blatantly Fe, and support Jung's view of Fe perfectly. It makes perfect sense some people thought you were an IxFP, since people have different levels of understanding the functions, and if we're typing INFP based on the stereotypical "whismical dreamer" archetype, sure, you fit INFP, but that doesn't dig deeply into how you think. Personally, I thought either ESFJ or xNFP when I read your original post, thought I leaned towards the former. The more I interact with you, the less Fi becomes an option in my mind. 



SugarPlum said:


> I wanted to clarify that I turned to my sisters and mom for their perspective, so I had something to tell you guys. I read somewhere it helps to have others' opinions, other than just your own. I feel like I agree completely. They were spot on. Yet, you folks are getting a way different vibe. I chalk this up to nervous energy. And on the part where it talked about one-on-one, I didn't say that I prefer to be around people that I can be myself with. I was saying that I don't act myself when around a lot of people, therefore I prefer to be in a one-on-one setting. There is absolutely no way this can be made into a Fe vs Fi thing. This is an introversion thing. Not sure why this is something you guys can't accept lol. I am not at ease in the world, and do not like being in group settings. I am a hermit. I say I don't like booked schedules, because extroverts love to be busy. With something. I can NOT see an ESFJ not going anywhere for weeks at a time. I am perfectly content with being inside and doing introverted things. Because they make me happy . Now if you are having a hard time seeing Ti over Ne, then maybe it's because I am not ISFJ either. IDK.


Remember what Je is- extroverted judgment, which means making a judgment or decision about something through external input. That's exactly what you did when you polled people for assessments, and the fact you read that idea somewhere doesn't cancel that out. Ever thought that perhaps the things you read or the advice you take appeals to cognition? All I said is that I think you're an Fe dom. It doesn't mean I disagree with your family (I said you were smart in your last thread, remember?) Their assessments are not out of line with an xSFJ. 

As @angelcat mentioned, I'm analyzing your through the jungian sense, not the MBTI E vs I scale. A person can have introverted traits and lead with an extroverted judgment. All it means to be an Fe dom is that you primarily gain Judgment through the values of other people, not that you gain energy from socializing. That's why I typed you as an ambiverted ESFJ, which would fit since it means traits of both extroverted and introversion. That fits "outspoken introvert" quite well. Your hatred of busy schedules, again, indicates Si. I also disagree that introverts "hate busy schedules". Some do yes, but my ISFP sister doesn't mind one (probably due to her Se). A busy schedule can involve a lot of activities that are primarily solitary. See how ambiguous that trait in particular is? I never said Ti is omitted; I said Ne comes across as stronger, and since you use Fe, Si and Ne, that would make for ESFJ. Sure, you could argue it's because of Te, but I don't see any Te at all. I see Fe. 

When you hear new logic, do you like to think about it and see if it adds up before you can accept it as truth? Are you more comfortable with independent self analysis or business logic? 



SugarPlum said:


> When everyone keeps saying things are Si for me, I kind of feel like it is Se soaking in all the sensory and then feeding it to Ni, that makes the impression and meaning to me. I also just read this morning, that low order Se (especially inferior) is the function to blame for a love-hate relationship with money. I am too materialistic to be high Si. My Sister , Grandma, and Aunt are all very frugal. Preserving. I am not. The Fe may be correct because I feel guilty about it, but I do think it is Se. I read through all of the "inferior" functions. @<span class="highlight"><i><a href="http://personalitycafe.com/member.php?u=68097" target="_blank">angelcat</a></i></span> , said that helped her out a lot in her typing journey. The ONLY introverted function that made semi sense was Ni. But I know I am not an ESFP, so that is out of the question. The inferior Ti did not resonate at all. In-fact, the one that fit like a glove was inferior Se. I could accept inferior Ne or Te as well. THIS should say something. When I am stressed, overwhelmed, and anxious... I turn into a sloppy extrovert. If I were an extrovert, I think I will turn in-wards, because that is what happens when your inferior is introverted.


Actually, finding your own sensory meanings and impressions is Si. Ni does not do this. Ni takes concrete sensory information and discovers the "truth" of what's behind it. You could argue that's what you do, but since your impressions are sensory things, it's not Ni. It's Si. This is why Ni is interested in symbolism, since it's taking concrete information and finding an intangible meaning behind it. You can't describe something like that through sensory things, sense metaphors and symbolism. 

What inferior functions did you read through? I'm going to be honest- I think a lot of inferior function descriptions fit disvalues of functions rather than the inferior function. Naomi Quenk's description of inferior Se fits me, because it' a better description of Si disvaluing Se rather than Se in the inferior. Materialism is behavior. Any type can be materialistic. It's certainly not uncommon for Si-Ne types to enjoy shopping, since shopping is all about collecting large quantities of things to compare and contrast between in order to gain new or relive old impressions of sensory objects. Se can be anti materialistic or even hate shopping if shopping or buying things does not engage their interest for sensory dynamics. Many would rather be out "doing" something that engages them. A lot of Se types find shopping to be a waste of time.

Not relating to your xSFJ family members does not rule out an xSFJ typing for you. You could have mistyped them, for starters. Also, the same types can manifest differently through a variety of factors. You can have serious, uptight xSFJs and funny, bubbly and flexible xSFJs. You can two xSFJs with completely opposing hobbies. I certainly don't like every ISFJ I've met or felt like I could relate to them, for starters. As @angelcat mentioned, this sort of contrasting and comparing is an Si thing, since it shows your impression of the sensory world is judged through subjective experiences (shaping your view of ESFJ through people you know).

Here's an Ni dom, if you want an example to compare yourself to:








SugarPlum said:


> I am not saying ESFJ is NOT possible, but I just feel like it just isn't me. And there are absolutely NO reasons I don't want to be one. None at all. I think they are lovely. I am surrounded by them. Think about it this way for a minute. IF I were in-fact an ESFJ, don't you think by now, I would have embraced it, because it is what everyone is throwing at me...? I mean, seems to me an Fe-DOM, would really really take how others view them as a next to sure thing. I on the other hand, WANT to accept it (that may be a aux-Fe), but I just CAN"T because it doesn't ring true, to my own subjective view of myself. Who I KNOW I am. That to me, is Ni, Si, or even Fi-dom.


Why is that Ni, Si, or Fi in your view? If you're an ExFJ, you use Si or Ni, which would mean that not all of your opinions would be based through Fe. As mentioned, I think most of what you think is Fi is actually Si. And no, Fe doesn't blindly follow what people think. Since you don't fit your view of ESFJ (which in my opinion, comes across as being filtered through an Si lens of what ESFJ should be or look like), it makes sense ESFJ doesn't make sense to you. 



SugarPlum said:


> So why is it, you see little to no Ti? What is it in THIS thread that you find Ti to be completely omitted?


As I said before, I don't think Ti is omitted, but not as strong as your other functions. I didn't see much Ti in the other thread either, but you definitely prefer Fe over Te. You disvalue Te, for starters. That's why I consider ESFJ more plausible than ISFJ.



SugarPlum said:


> I feel like I use Se, but sloppily. I also do feel like my T, whichever it is, is lower. I am not sure which side of the F coin I land on. And I am next to POSITIVE I am an introvert. Fe-aux would then make sense. But as you all have trouble with, is if I am an Si-dom. Not sure I am sold on that either.


Again, leading with a dominate extroverted function does not mean you prefer to be with other people.



SugarPlum said:


> Can someone explain why I feel like I fit the Beta Quadra perfectly? Alpha, mayyybe ( I mean, slightly). But Beta, really just hit home.


You could be misinterpreting what Beta means. You could be subjected to the Forer Effect. You could be subjected to the confirmation bias. Explaining which aspects of Beta fit you and why could clear this up.



SugarPlum said:


> Hoopla, I really hope you didn't take this wrong. Your help has been very much appreciated. I just don't want to agree, just because everybody hops on board, yuh know? I don't want to settle on anything unless I am fully convinced. And I just can't bring myself to see it this way.


No, not at all. I understand. Also, I think how you're making quick Judgments of how I will feel (you're probably offended, you probably want to spit in my face, I'm probably tiring you out), and then checking to make sure I'm not offended, is more indications of Fe. I'll let you figure out how that's indicative of an extroverted Feeling function on your own.

I may not reply, btw. I can't see anything other than ambiverted ESFJ at this point, and that's all I can offer you. How you type yourself is up to you. Every time I interact with you I see a lot of Fe, and some Si-Ne. I thought maybe Fi-Te at first, but I can't see it at all anymore, though I still think xNFP would make more sense than xSFP. You gave me the impression of Si-Ne from the very start. No evidence for Se-Ni whatsoever.


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## Dreamer777 (Jan 15, 2011)

shinynotshiny said:


> @Dreamer777
> 
> Let's try not to influence SugarPlum's answers.


How could i have changed her answer if she already gave her answer? I showed her another perspective, maybe she wasn't aware that she has a choice to actually not testify, maybe she thought she had no choice. The Courtroom is not necessarily a fair or just place. It is a battle of minds who can outstmart who and find the loopholes in the Law to win a case. Maybe Sugar Plum doesn't have much knowledge yet on courtrooms and Law. I didn't at her age, i have learned alot more along life's journey.

The Courtroom is sometimes a very injust place and innocent people get locked up and guilty people walk free. Because it's just a place of intellect and knowing how to use the Law to your advantage with no mind to whether you are guilty. 

So i was sharing some knowledge with her on that about how the Court and Law works.

It's not always a fair and just place.

The only Court that is fair and just is God's Court where God is on the Throne. There is no other fair nor just court in this world, it's just a battle of intellect, it's not about TRUTH.

EDIT TO ADD MORE:

Plus God says revenge is HIS he will repay and we must leave revenge to him.

So why put the family in danger to possibley watch the offender walk free from the Court Room anyhow, why bother?


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

@Dreamer777

Just a note for future questions.


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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

angelcat said:


> Emotion. Family. Etc.
> 
> That aside, HOW would you adapt to a new life? Abandon your old one (forget about the people for a minute; I'm asking for your responses to this totally unfamiliar life, and your behavior) or would you slide back into usual behaviors? Would you continue seeking out the same sorts of things as before?
> 
> ...


I can't separate my emotion from the situation. So I need to tweak it a bit. My mom is dead, and my siblings pretty much scattered out in different states. NOW, this situation happened...

Bring it on! Let's do this. I would embrace the change, with caution. I would need to process things, but I would still accept the change. However, on the question of whether or not I would slip back into my old behaviors... um, yes? I mean, you can put me in a new environment, but I am still me. Why wouldn't my behaviors stay the same? Why would anyone's change? Being given a new identity is superficial. Not internal. It wouldn't change who I am. My soul would remain. So would I adapt? Yes. Would I need to go back to my old home, or see my old friends? not really. Although I wouldn't want to forget either.

Could I come up with something new every Monday? Yes and no. I am not the best with coming up with new innovations when pressured. I can, but it's hard work. 

When I strive for novelty, it usually comes in the form of moving. We have been in this same house for over a year, so it's about time now that I want a new layout. I want a new kitchen and a new place to put my dishes etc. Things staying the same too long makes me cringe. But I wouldn't want something new every single week, before I can even have time to enjoy it first. 

However, I would be more than happy to create new art etc (if I was artistically inclined enough), if I was at least able to keep the old, while moving onto the new. If I were an Artist, I would have a very hard time with selling my art. It's mine. My blood, sweat, tears, and soul was poured into it. It is MY story. I would show others, but never sell it. It belongs with me, forever. So, unless I was on Project Runway and able to keep the prototype, I wouldn't be able to just leave it and move onto the next. Although, I would still love to move onto the next... 

If I had to move to a new city and no contact with my old life, I would be okay. But I would need something that symbolizes where I began my life. I don't need to live there, but I don't want to forget it either. I would create a new life, but I my soul will still be the same. I will still be me, carried over into a new life. 

I really hope that answered you lol


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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

shinynotshiny said:


> Nope, didn't freak me out. No worries
> 
> I have some questions before responding to your post.
> 
> Can you talk about your concept of a soul a little bit more? Do you have a vision of your soul, for example?


Hmmm... I am not sure how to describe what my soul looks like, because I AM the soul. I can't see it in a mirror or a reflection. I can't see it outside of my body. I see from the eyes of my soul. So I don't know what it looks like. I feel they all would look similar at this point, but won't get their EXTERNAL physical details until it is met with our glorified bodies. Right now, its still incubating in the chrysalis (our Earth bodies). God is the Artist, painting away. The Sculptor, molding me. So the soul is ever evolving. I can't see it, only He can. I can see from within it, looking outside of it. I can feel it. I AM it. That is really all I have for such a vague question. I love that you are interested though. Everyone around me thinks I am a freak lol.

If you have any specific questions, I could probably expand more.


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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

No worries, @shinynotshiny , I always read and then answer all in order, to avoid any extra information that may be irrelevant for the question at hand. One at a time. So I didn't see her responses til after. But thank you for keeping my sanity in mind through this. It is very easy for these threads to take flight. 

@Dreamer777, funny you should bring that option to the table. After I already gave my answer, I asked my husband how HE would answer angelcat's question. He said "uhh, tell them I don't want to" LOL. I was like "NO! You have to do it" (because I knew that was the whole purpose of the exercise. His response was "I guess go. Evidently there is no choice in the matter". GOOD GRIEF, this man! I was like, "okayyy, so how would you handle it? Would you be able to leave home and start over new?". Finally, he was able to give a concrete answer. He said "No, I wouldn't be able to, but I would have to. I know you wouldn't have a problem with it as long as we can strap your mom to the top of the roof of our car in her chair and drag her with us. You would go in a second. I can't. That's not me. This is all I have known, and I don't want to know anything else."

I found this very interesting.

@hoopla, thanks hun. I truly appreciate all your insight on the matter. In the end, you may end up being right. 
P.S. That 'spitting' comment was about how I didn't want you to feel like I spit in your face, by stomping all over your feedback like a toddler throwing a tantrum. Maybe the phrase "a smack in the face" would have delivered my point better lol.

Also to anyone else reading this, I wanted to add, that I find it very hard to articulate my thoughts into words. I end up giving analogies that half the time, no one get's lol. I have no idea if this is even type related, or just a Jackie thing. I feel like if I can compare the story in my head to a verbal picture book, people will get it. I am sure you have already noticed this . I am able to communicate just fine verbally. Like in dialogue, while responding verbally with someone. But when it comes to my own thoughts on things, it is SO hard to articulate the thoughts into just words. I could give a few examples if needed.


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

SugarPlum said:


> Hmmm... I am not sure how to describe what my soul looks like, because I AM the soul. I can't see it in a mirror or a reflection. I can't see it outside of my body. I see from the eyes of my soul. So I don't know what it looks like. I feel they all would look similar at this point, but won't get their EXTERNAL physical details until it is met with our glorified bodies. Right now, its still incubating in the chrysalis (our Earth bodies). God is the Artist, painting away. The Sculptor, molding me. So the soul is ever evolving. I can't see it, only He can. I can see from within it, looking outside of it. I can feel it. I AM it. That is really all I have for such a vague question. I love that you are interested though. Everyone around me thinks I am a freak lol.
> 
> If you have any specific questions, I could probably expand more.


The concept of the soul as separate from one's body (and existing eternally) is common in a lot of religions. I'm not suggesting you took your answer from the Bible. I'm simply suggesting your answer was influenced by your faith, especially the Christian concept of the soul. The feelings you have about your body aren't strange to me, and I wonder why your body doesn't feel yours at times. 

Ultimately, I see a lot of Fe because outside sources shape your beliefs. You also compare your ideas to the external world, such as comparing your vision of the soul to the wisps in Brave. I don't feel your second response went deep enough into your vision of the soul. I wasn't expecting a physical description (incorporeal soul) but I was hoping for more than "only He can" see the soul. I think it's interesting how you mentioned the soul receiving a glorified physical body. If the true _you _is an incorporeal soul, if that is your essence, your origin, why is there a need for a physical body? What is the purpose?

I may have to agree with @angelcat and @hoopla; it feels like you work your way towards abstraction rather than begin with abstraction, but I'm interested in what other people have to say about your answers. Maybe they will see or feel something that I'm missing.


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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

@shinynotshiny I guess I misinterpreted your question. I thought you wanted what I visually SAW while looking AT my soul. I wasn't able to answer that.

I completely get why you think I am influenced by my faith about the soul being distinct from the body, but I am pretty sure many feel this regardless if faith plays a role or not. What I DO know though, is that I do not feel connected to my body, but yet I am completely aware of it. I know where it begins, and where it ends. I am very familiar with it. I just don't feel a connection. And I am not speaking in the spiritual form of connection. I am speaking of a physical connection. They just dont FEEL connected. For instance, I just drove my car and I saw my hands on the steering wheel. I saw my body controlling this machine called a car. But I felt completely disconnected form it. I feel like my soul, is my 'being', and it is the power source to this machine we call a body.

When you say it wasn't "deep" enough for you, what exactly do you mean by that? Are you saying it wasn't deep enough to be Ni-dom, or Ni at all? Or was there another point to that? I didn't know you were checking for depth, because you mentioned you were just curious. Also, you said you saw Fe influence, but Fe can still be paired with Ni.

If it was about the Ni thing, could someone tell me what it is that was in alittlebear's thread that screamed Ni-aux? I am totally not trying to pick on her in any way shape or form, but I think I have gotten more deep in this answer, more than she did in her whole thread. I only bring her up because, she is the only Ni user I have talked to, besides you, but I haven't seen any information on you so I can't use that as an example.

That being said, I may be xSFJ. And thank you for your ongoing help.


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

SugarPlum said:


> @_shinynotshiny_ I guess I misinterpreted your question. I thought you wanted what I visually SAW while looking AT my soul. I wasn't able to answer that.
> 
> I completely get why you think I am influenced by my faith about the soul being distinct from the body, *but I am pretty sure many feel this regardless if faith is plays a role or not*.


What do you mean by this? I think you're assuming everyone believes in a soul or intangible self separate from the body.



SugarPlum said:


> What I DO know though, is that I do not feel connected to my body, but yet I am completely aware of it. I know where it begins, and where it ends. I am very familiar with it. I just don't feel a connection. And I am not speaking in the spiritual form of connection. I am speaking of a physical connection. They just dont FEEL connected. For instance, I just drove my car and I saw my hands on the steering wheel. I saw my body controlling this machine called a car. But I felt completely disconnected form it. I feel like my soul, is my being, and it is the power source to this machine we call a body.
> 
> *When you say it wasn't "deep" enough for you, what exactly do you mean by that? *Are you saying it wasn't deep enough to be Ni-dom, or Ni at all? Or was there another point to that? *I didn't know you were checking for depth, because you mentioned you were just curious.* Also, you said you saw Fe influence, but Fe can still be paired with Ni.


I just feel it was a very straightforward answer. I asked you to talk about your concept of the soul, I don't remember saying I was just curious...? But I may be wrong, everything is a jumble in my mind at the moment. Even so, why limit yourself?

I'm not going to speak with authority about Ni because although I identify the most with INTJ, there exists the possibility I may be mistyped. I question most intuitives in the forum, truth be told.



SugarPlum said:


> If it was about the Ni thing, could someone tell me what it is that was in alittlebear's thread that screamed Ni-aux? I am totally not trying to pick on her in any way shape or form, but I think I have gotten more deep in this answer, more than she did in her whole thread. I only bring her up because, she is the only Ni user I have talked to, besides you, but I haven't seen any information on you so I can't use that as an example.
> 
> That being said, I may be xSFJ. And thank you for your ongoing help.


I don't think this is fair...

For what it's worth, I've engaged @alittlebear in conversation and read her posts, and she has some unique ways of looking at the world. That's all I'm going to say.


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## Pressed Flowers (Oct 8, 2014)

I just got here and I've only read Shony's post but... I can see where you're comng from, @SugarPlum. Honestly I've been thinking much the same thing. How is it that Hoopla and Angelcat and others have seen so much Ni in me when they rarely see it in others? I'm a bit perplexed by it. (Not that I want this topic to become about me and I think we should stay away from comparison because I can only see that turning out poorly. But I just wanted to assert that I do agree with you that it is odd and I can understand your confusion - it's something I partially share.)


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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

@hoopla , I am sorry to drag you into this again. So I just finished that video. I wanted to really try and see if I could SEE the Ni, and if I am different. I have to say, are you SURE she is Ni-dom? There was a lot of impressionistic memory recall. I mean a LOT. If you see this as Ni, then... I AM Ni! I think and talk just like her. My gosh, I saw so much of myself in her. Now, when you shared the Tyra video, YES my explosions have been like that, but I know how Tyra is on a regular basis, and I do not act like her at all. Can you give me other ESFJ's you think I remind you of, since you like the video comparison's. So far, Tori and I fit the best, with a Tyra temper.

@alittlebear , I am so glad you didn't feel attacked and that I am not alone in this. I agree it isn't good to compare to other people, but because it was a thread, that they saw Ni in, I think it is okay for us to compare in that area. I am totally fine with you bringing yourself into this because it has to do with something I am hung up on. Watch that video above with Tori. Do you resonate?


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## Pressed Flowers (Oct 8, 2014)

@SugarPlum I appreciate your invitation, but I'm still not sure that's the way to approach your thread. I think that if we type you in comparison to me it's going to be extremely awkward for everyone involved, and things will get too personal. One doesn't type fictional characters in relation to other physical characters. Much less type another forum member directly in relation to another forum member. It's a very weak typing method, and one that's bound to get touchy - if not for you, for others typing you. It's just a sticky way to go about typing. 

And, on a more pragmatic level 
One way to get this thread off topic is definitely to have @alittlebear share her personal thoughts in relation to herself. Do you not remember what happened at your own topic?  

If you compare to me you'll have to compare to Si and if the Si users start chiming in the Ne-dom is going to chime in and everyone is going to chime in and 

That's a fast track to your topic unfolding perhaps with less restraint into the jumbled mess you were very much trying to deviate from with this topic.


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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

I am not discrediting @alittlebear . I guess I just don't know why I have to get SO deep with every single answer I give for anyone to say I am anything other than an ESFJ. I am not saying she doesn't have unique ways of looking at the world, but the analysis of her Ni usage came fast. I just don't understand. Alittlebear is an amazing individual, so please don't get the impression I was saying otherwise. Or even saying I am better than her in any way. My gosh, that could not be further from the truth. And yeah, I don't know how anyone could not see the soul and body as separate, because it is a tangible reality for ME. 

I feel like my insides are being picked at when it should be enough to see if I use a function without diving into my concept of my soul. What was I supposed to say, that would deem me as having "depth"? I just don't get it.

What would YOUR concept on your soul be? I am interested to see how anyone else would have answered the question actually. What is wrong with straightforward? I am being more straightforward because I didn't want to stay on one particular question for too long and make this thread all bout Ni. Or my soul. The way the other thread was all about Fe, and my emotions.

I don't think your words towards me were exactly fair, either.

@alittlebear that is fine. I just wanted an idea of Ni, since everyone says you had it and I don't. Just in THAT specific area. Let me clarify to everyone... It is okay if I don't use it, but I need better evidence that I don't. Sorry for involving you. Gish, I feel like this is getting ugly, real fast. Gosh dang it. Why do my threads keep taking a turn? Okay, well that is all I have to say in this matter. Thank you, alittlebear.


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

SugarPlum said:


> I am not discrediting @_alittlebear_ . I guess I just don't know why I have to get SO deep with every single answer I give for anyone to say I am anything other than an ESFJ. I am not saying she doesn't have unique ways of looking at the world, but the analysis of her Ni usage came fast. I just don't understand. Alittlebear is an amazing individual, so please don't get the impression I was saying otherwise. Or even saying I am better than her in any way. My gosh, that could not be further from the truth. And yeah, I don't know how anyone could not see the soul and body as separate, because it is a tangible reality for ME.
> 
> I feel like my insides are being picked at when it should be enough to see if I use a function without diving into my concept of my soul. What was I supposed to say, that would deem me as having "depth"? I just don't get it.
> 
> ...


You don't have an obligation to answer any question you're uncomfortable with. I asked about the self, not the soul, but I won't bring up similar discussions in the future. This is obviously a topic that's very dear to you, and for people to start sharing their own interpretations of the soul would only make things worse.


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## Pressed Flowers (Oct 8, 2014)

In spite of my earlier words, I am tempted to share the way I view souls. I actually mentioned my view of souls early in my typing topic, and made a post about them on another thread actually? 

But at the same time, I already said comparison was bad. And my true answer sort of makes me a bad question... because it has nothing to do with a specific religion so much as it has to do with my unfounded but stubborn understanding of the beautiful connection between humanity and their true beautiful, selfless perfection (a concept which... Christianity plays a part of and which I do not personally see as deviant from my Christian beliefs, but which I know other Christians would surely disagree with [not necessarily on this topic, but... I am aware that, as I say, my approach to Christianity is "unorthodox" and would be heavily frowned on by a good deal of Christians if I were more open about it]) 

But. Yes. That is off topic, and I am afraid to even tempt anyone - including you, dear SugarPlum - into talking about whether or not closely following Christianity makes someone SJ or not. That's a stupid discussion. Let's not even have it. 

I'm not sure if I will share my view of souls for comparison, but I will think on it. And consider input from the other typ_ers_ (vaguely passive-aggressive correct word usage is vaguely passive-aggressive) have to say concerning even slight comparison between us. As I already stated, I think it's opening a door that will lead to unpleasant feelings and limited understanding, but we will see how the others react.


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

alittlebear said:


> In spite of my earlier words, I am tempted to share the way I view souls. I actually mentioned my view of souls early in my typing topic, and made a post about them on another thread actually?
> 
> But at the same time, I already said comparison was bad. And my true answer sort of makes me a bad question... because it has nothing to do with a specific religion so much as it has to do with my unfounded but stubborn understanding of the beautiful connection between humanity and their true beautiful, selfless perfection (a concept which... Christianity plays a part of and which I do not personally see as deviant from my Christian beliefs, but which I know other Christians would surely disagree with [not necessarily on this topic, but... I am aware that, as I say, my approach to Christianity is "unorthodox" and would be heavily frowned on by a good deal of Christians if I were more open about it])
> 
> ...


That's not the point at all.


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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

You told me to take it where I wanted. So I didn't think about it, I just went with it. I didn't know it was a measurement of my depth. 

Okay, so... I apologize for this awkward turn of events. Let's just act like this didn't happen. 

Any other specific, non-vague questions. This is why I like to know exactly what someone wants for me. Less trouble to get into lol


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## Pressed Flowers (Oct 8, 2014)

shinynotshiny said:


> That's not the point at all.


I didn't mean that in direction of you at all, and I apologize that it seemed that way! No, I didn't mean that. It's just that this topic is going pretty obviously down that trail of comparing Ni and Si, and as I represented the "Ni POV" (it honestly doesn't, but I fear that's what would have been seen) of following Christianity loosely I didn't want anyone (not you - I know you wouldn't compare something stupid like that, and you've already made it very clear you don't think religion should be typed [at least not in that way] to make the false dichotomy of "oh Ni is deep and doesn't follow Christianity firmly when it does follow it and Si does follow Christianity firmly always and completely on-course with the Bible when it does" 

Now that I type it I realize my words were overly precautious. How incredibly silly. But those were my reasons for making that statement; in no way were they directed at or influenced by you.


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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

What about if I say that I don't usually shut down or balk at change. I allow it to happen. I embrace it. I just need time to realign everything. Kinda like when you are driving down a huge steep hill, quickly. Its exciting and you cant wait, but then by the time you get to the bottom, its like you have to wait for your body and you soul/mind to realign. I hope you know what I am talking about, otherwise this comparison wont make sense lol

That is what it's like for me. I love change, but give me some time to readjust. I can still fully function while I am adapting, but it will be a little more wonky.


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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

Dreamer777 said:


> @SugarPlum
> What are some of your favorite movies and tv shows?


Well I have a few guilty pleasures. 

SHOWS:
Game of Thrones
Outlander
Once Upon a Time
Revenge (with the John, the husband)
Pretty Little Liars (don't laugh, w/John)
The White Queen
The Tudors
Call the Midwife
Raising Hope (with John)
One Tree Hill (with John)
Parenthood (always related to Sarah)
New Girl (Omg so funny)
Gilmore Girls 
Reign


MOVIES:
The Other Boleyn Girl
Memoirs of a Geisha
Grease
Dirty Dancing
Willy Wonka & the Choc. Factory
Chocolat
Beauty and the Beast
The Little Mermaid
Okay, I guess all the Disney's really lol

I love Drama and Comedy. Romantic Comedy is cool if not too cheesy, as well.


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

SugarPlum said:


> @_shinynotshiny_ (only if you want to)


It's alright 

I'll take some time to look over your responses.


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## 68097 (Nov 20, 2013)

SugarPlum said:


> What about if I say that I don't usually shut down or balk at change. I allow it to happen. I embrace it. I just need time to realign everything. Kinda like when you are driving down a huge steep hill, quickly. Its exciting and you cant wait, but then by the time you get to the bottom, its like you have to wait for your body and you soul/mind to realign. I hope you know what I am talking about, otherwise this comparison wont make sense lol
> 
> That is what it's like for me. I love change, but give me some time to readjust. I can still fully function while I am adapting, but it will be a little more wonky.


I would still guess Si/Ne, and in the event that change is a blip in the radar rather than somewhat traumatic -- ESFJ.


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## Dangerose (Sep 30, 2014)

(I would vote, but I truly don't know, and I feel like I would just be parroting what other people on this thread have been saying...)


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## Dreamer777 (Jan 15, 2011)

@SugarPlum

Which one of the 8 cognitive function descriptions do you LEAST relate to?

Understanding the 8 Jungian Cognitive Processes (8 Functions)


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## Dreamer777 (Jan 15, 2011)

Also which character do you relate to the most in Game of Thrones? (as in you see yourself in them)


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## Dreamer777 (Jan 15, 2011)

SugarPlum said:


> What about if I say that I don't usually shut down or balk at change. I allow it to happen. I embrace it. I just need time to realign everything. Kinda like when you are driving down a huge steep hill, quickly. Its exciting and you cant wait, but then by the time you get to the bottom, its like you have to wait for your body and you soul/mind to realign. I hope you know what I am talking about, otherwise this comparison wont make sense lol
> 
> That is what it's like for me. I love change, but give me some time to readjust. I can still fully function while I am adapting, but it will be a little more wonky.


you said here you LOVE change. I think any type needs a little time to re-adjust though after a move especially with a family in tow.

i'm still pondering your "down hill roller coaster ride" visual... lol  do you like roller coaster rides?


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## Dreamer777 (Jan 15, 2011)

lol  my daughter is an ISTP and she relates to your list of movies and shows.

She says on Game of Thrones she relates to Arya, she says she's badass and tomboyish, and that's who she relates to the most.


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## Dragheart Luard (May 13, 2013)

@angelcat your comments about Si having trouble moving on from old routines is something that I've spotted in the XNFPs that I know. They may be open to new ideas and love to see the potential that other people have (like, they see the traits of someone and soon they can figure out which kind of job would suit them better, which is something that XSTJs also do but with a slightly different focus, focusing more on efficiency), but forget to alter their sensory impressions. A former friend for example loves Pokémon, while she dislikes Digimon because she found it boring. I tried to show to her that there were new versions of that anime, but she stubbornly sticked to her sensory ideal that was formed during her childhood. It's like she wants to repeat the same experience that she had years ago, and considering how weak is her Si, it's really a hard task. However, she has no problem jumping between different theories that she finds interesting. (My guess is that she's ENFP)

My mother has a similar issue, rejecting technology until she saw that it was impossible to work without having internet at home. She can adapt to new cities, but that's easier for her if they're of a culture that she understands. So, she really missed her country while we stayed in Germany, wanting to go back there as soon as she could. It's like she never adapted, and seems like this issue became worse with her age, as before she lived in the USA but didn't have that much trouble dealing with the system. Considering this, she's afraid that I move to other place and fail to adapt to it, while I'm like nah that's not a problem. Basically she's projecting her FiSi ideals onto me, and I just shake my head.

Other thing is that my mother's values seem to be frozen, in the sense that they haven't changed at all despite being in different jobs and cities. I mean frozen in the sense that's they're fixed, being an ethical axiom that's basically unaffected by the values of the other people that she knows. I admire that, as it's like they can't be corrupted at all nor they will lose their essence. So, if something clashes with those values she won't alter them at all, rejecting whatever isn't compatible with them. I think that this is an important characteristic of Fi doms in general, as their values are the basis of their worldview, besides of being real dictators when their weak Te kicks in.

Hope that those points could shed some light.


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## quaestio (Sep 24, 2014)

Hope you don't mind me weighing in. My vote is ESFJ. 

For Si/Ne, it's not just the energy in your responses but also like... the "Kinda like when you're driving down a steep hill..." thing is something Si does. Look how Oswin types Ni users, by comparing an essence in their writing to something sensory in a way that perhaps uniquely makes sense to her. I do the exact same thing (except for Ni, I think of arrows). I could be wrong, but it's not a tendency I find in Se types.

As for Fe/Ti, I believe you've come to that yourself already. 

Regarding Si and change - once I'm there, I don't tend to want to go back. But the process of getting there can feel like rewriting reality and is unsettling. I believe change is essential for my happiness and growth as a person and it can be wonderful, but I can have some trouble dealing with the *process* of it. Not always - the more minor, the less I care - but I can do. That's Si-dom. ESFJs would likely seek it more and be better with it.

Ha, maybe I'm wrong though and you're NFP. You just don't give me a high Ne feel though. Good luck finding your type.


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## 68097 (Nov 20, 2013)

@Blue Flare: yeah, all Si-users have trouble moving on from routines. And the lower the Si, the more weirdly stubborn / nostalgic it appears to be. I think in NP types, the mundane is relegated to Si, so they prefer sameness to some extent, and in SJ types, the mundane appears mundane, so it kicks toward Ne, in a search for ... more ideal circumstances?

I dunno, what would be a good analogy of that in a relate-able format? NPs desire creative stimulation, but are more inclined to desire stability in their home environment, whereas SJs desire stability in life, but are more inclined to desire creative stimulation in their home environment?

IE: DON'T MOVE THAT FURNITURE.
And: I CAN'T STAND THIS ROOM BEING THE SAME ANYMORE.

Or is that stretching?


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## Dragheart Luard (May 13, 2013)

@angelcat yeah, the NP part is exactly the issues that my former friend and my mother have. They love to deal with new conceptual stuff, but moving them from their usual environment isn't that easy. I think that an SJ wouldn't mind to experiment more on a sensory level, as they have a better grasps of the nuances of their home. Your example reminds me when my ESFJ aunt decided to revamp the kitchen, changing practically all the furniture, because she was bored of the current design and other stuff that she used there. So I think that your analogy works well.


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## Deadly Decorum (Feb 23, 2014)

@SugarPlum- I understand how Tori's memory call may be interpreted as Si, but Si is not memory or nostalgia, because every functioning human being accesses a working memory. Let that sink in for a bit.

Se is objective, concrete sensory reality. It's similar to Ne in that it sees all the ways objective reality can be applied, through concrete, sensory ways. You can have a creative, artistic Se that uses art as a platform to soak and engage all that sensory stuff in new and different ways, but it's not Ne because the sensory stimulus in not removed; rather it's manipulated to engage in the sensory world in a concrete way. It's seeing all the ways the concrete sensory world can be applied, so it can be engaged in even further. 

Ne can engage in sensory things, but the sensory stimulus is removed, which means it's the ways things can be played out, the idea of these things, rather than what they actually are. It's therefore easy to see how Ne and Se can be confused. A good example of an Ne dom that's commonly mistyped as an Se dom is Ariel from The Little Mermaid. She engages in sensory things (human souvenirs), but is not interested in engaging in them as they actually are. She's attracted to them because they represent a whole other world she's never experienced, that can only be imagined and played out conceptually. It's the whole idea of what the human world is, what it may be like, that intrigues her, not what it actually is. These souvenirs merely support this conceptual world she's never experienced and trigger her curiosity of all the ways it can play out abstractly.

Now that we know how Se and Ne are similar, how are Si and Ni similar? Si is taking the objective sensory world and filtering it through it's own lens, so it can devalue idealize it. It's viewing the sensory world not as it really is, but subjectively. It's not Ni because it's still engaging in the senses- it's just removing itself from the objective stimulus in favor of subjective stimulus instead. Ni rather takes the objective sensory world and bleeds through it, finding it's own subjective truth underneath. This truth is not sensory because it's not a thing you can experience; it's a concept that can only be found by "really looking into" the objective sensory world by removing the sensory stimulus.

This is exactly what Tori does. The sensory world merely supports her insights. Yes, she's recalling memories, but that's not what cognition is. She's taking objective reality and deconstructing it to discover a truth, a concept and that can't really be explained because it's not a sensory thing. When discussing how she composed her latest album, she explains how she saw through a team members "ears"... she looked into what was really going on to understand her different approach to music to spark artistic inspiration. And while she is recalling memory, she's not discussing the sensory aspects so much... this is where uses symbolism to retell the story (Tori is no longer the "captain of the ship," she's the "sailor" learning from the new "captain"). 

I've long though synesthesia is a form of Ni-Se, as the properties of numbers and music notes are stripped down into a subjective image- numbers and music notes are no longer numbers and music notes, but colors. This is exactly what Tori is doing when she discusses chord formations and sounds. She understands concrete sensory information is subjectively interpreted conceptually, and interprets these things independently to find subjective truths for creative inspiration. When she remembers a song, it's not Si, because she's recalling an objective reality to discover subjective inspiration out of it. Concepts that can't really be explained... that's why to Ni, souls are death, souls are blue, the ocean is green. The concrete sensory world merely supports subjective concepts that are reduced to symbols in order to describe the intangible.

When Se-Ni relives a past experience, it's finding the subtleties of concrete things, the subtle discrepancies and nuances that you really have to look into to find and discover. This is what makes Se and Ni types aesthetes and art snobs; detecting the nuances between aesthetics. Se also likes experimenting with the sensory world, applying and reapplying it, so I imagine they'd do that with past experiences too. 

With Si-Ne, they relive a past experience to savor what it was subjectively before; to experience the sensory impressions only they can experience, to savor them again, feel the again, and then play out and expand on all the ways these personal impressions can be viewed in an intuitive way- things that don't exist in reality. This is when strong Si types expand on their narrow scope, and ease up to the new- by playing with things and re-inventing them so they can store it and savor it again and again. Filtering these experiences into a sense of comfort. The subjective experiences and mythology become new ideas that cannot be experienced or engaged through the sensory world, but played with, danced with, re-created and re-imagined into a whole new world that can only be imagined conceptually, not experienced. With Ne, it's only to build upon those old myths, to strip them to their essence, and with Si, it's to play around with myths so that more myths are acceptable to experience.

So no, memory recall is not Si. It's a universal human experience. How the memories are used is what's important, not the memories themselves. Personally, how I deduce the memory is through how much the sensory details drive home the point of the story; if they're merely allusions to an intuitive realization, then intuition. If I can film or photograph of them, then Se. If the memories are more subjective or nuanced, harder to get a glimpse of, or more of a stereotype (Se is more fluid), then Si. 

I apologize for the essay; you're confused and I hope this clears things up a bit.


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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

Can someone translate with examples, please? Muchos gracias 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Introverted Thinking* - (Ti)


Introverted Thinking often involves finding just the right word to clearly express an idea concisely, crisply, and to the point.

Using introverted Thinking is like having an internal sense of the essential qualities of something, noticing the fine distinctions that make it what it is and then naming it.

It also involves an internal reasoning process of deriving subcategories of classes and sub-principles of general principles.

These can then be used in problem solving, analysis, and refining of a product or an idea.

This process is evidenced in behaviors like taking things or ideas apart to figure out how they work.

The analysis involves looking at different sides of an issue and seeing where there is inconsistency.

In so doing, we search for a "leverage point" that will fix problems with the least amount of effort or damage to the system.

We engage in this process when we notice logical inconsistencies between statements and frameworks, using a model to evaluate the likely accuracy of what's observed.


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## Dreamer777 (Jan 15, 2011)

SugarPlum said:


> Can someone translate with examples, please? Muchos gracias
> 
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> 
> ...


LOL :happy: i can't wrap my head around what Ti is either! That is my devilish function as a Fi dom. That is the devilish function of both INFP's and ISFP's.

To me it's like say what what and who who??? i can't understand it, so for sure i can't explain it to you, lol :happy:


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## 68097 (Nov 20, 2013)

SugarPlum said:


> Can someone translate with examples, please?


Seems self-explanatory from THAT description (fairly straightforward assessment), but fine. Here's an abstract one, for kicks, and one that has troubled my mind for quite some time.

Ti thought process:

_I like Gladiator, but not The Hunger Games. They are very much alike, story-wise, both about dying in an arena for the entertainment of a crowd, in a debauched and corrupt society. Since the two things are similar, I OUGHT to like them both, yet I intensely love one and dislike the other. So what it is it that I like about the one, but dislike about the other? It's a mystery to me, an inconsistency in my thought process. I must discern a logical reason for it, and I will not cease thinking about it until I have a reasonable answer. Could it be that I am uncomfortable with the violence in THG because it is CHILDREN forced to play in the games? But, wouldn't that indicate that I am desensitized to violence directed at adults? Is that right or wrong, to condone and be untroubled by violent content directed toward a specific people group while being alarmed by it directed at another? What does that say about my worldview? Is my worldview immoral?

Is that the reason? If not, what IS the reason? Perhaps it is that I LIKE the lead character in Gladiator, but not in Hunger Games. Or maybe I prefer the ancient Roman setting to a modern/futuristic perspective. Or is it that one is better written than the other?

If asked why I like one but not the other, what would I say? How much time would I need to come up with an answer? What is the REAL reason? Might it be that THG is too popular among my friends, and out of my need to show independence, out of rebellion, I have chosen not to like it?

No, that isn't it. I am genuinely disturbed by it. But why? Maybe it is the godlessness of the society; in Gladiator, at least there is an element of hope and faith in that he may pass on into eternity, having avenged his family and saved Rome. There is no hope or higher power in Panam. Yet, I truly do think it is the storytelling style, and the casual cruelty that bothers me most. The graphic descriptions of children dying for entertainment. 

Yes, I think that is it. Or at least, it seems to make sense to me. _

This meandering example of an inner thought process brought to you by Ti, which over thinks EVERYTHING.

Te does not over-think things. It can't. It sees the fact of the object.

ETA: a recent conversation to make you LOL.

Me: I noticed that this author isn't consistent in their writing. He switches from past to present tense in the same sentence, which is annoying. Why do you think he does that? My theory, after thinking about it for awhile, is that it subconsciously influences the psyche of the reader, in order to give them a jilted sense of a troubled mind. It throws them off, but they're not consciously aware of it, gives them the impression that something is ... amiss, that they can't put their finger on. Did you notice? Do you think that's a plausible theory?

Te-user: Yeah, I noticed. Didn't think about it. Your theory seems likely.

And that was all. 

Ti analyzes, Te doesn't.


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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

Okay, I feel like I am getting closer, but want to keep things to myself while gathering the final touches I need. I think I am going to finally come to my final answer real soon here. Let me answer a cpl things, and then gather my thoughts and ask a cpl final questions....

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
@Dreamer777 - On Game of Throne's...Not many iNtuitives to relate to, but I probably relate the most (when at my natural state) to a mix of Catelyn Stark and Danaerys NOW. Daenarys reminds me of how I was when living at home, as a teen. But when I was outside of my troubled home, I was much more Margaery'esque. Now, I could definitely say I am pretty identical to Catelyn, with a side of Tyrion (oddly enough). His sense of humor for sure. So that is a hard one. 

What I do know, is that I am Allie, from the Notebook. Noah is a lot like my husband in a lot of ways. But Allie and me, wow. Crazy similarities!

And no, I don't like roller coaster rides much anymore. Ever since I had my kids. I heard that is typical though. I was never a HUGE fan of them, but I liked them a lot more when I was younger. I liked playing games and winning prizes, or getting our picture drawn by the cartoonist, or watching the horse show, or just walking around and watching/observing everyone around me, more. 

And I will get back to you on those functions in a little bit  and to clarify..you think I am...xNFP?
@Blue Flare , thank you for your input. Every bit counts. So just clarifying...you thought I was ENFP?
@Living dead and @shinynotshiny no worries  @quaestio , absolutely you can chime in. Thank you  
@Oswin , don't worry about it. You still rock lol
@angelcat you have been SO patient and given me so much to work with. I was your 'rose bud' in this process and now I am about to 'bloom'. I am exited. So do YOU see ISFJ or xNFP more? Just curious.
@hoopla , thank you for the clarification. I was actually thinking about taking that comment away on Tori because I think it is starting to fall more into place for me. You have also given so much to work with and with patience. Do YOU have any flat out OBJECTION to ISFJ, even though ESFJ is your top pic?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

With that being said. Can I just get ONE more roll call on your final #1 and #2 answer. 
Like this...

"#1- ESFJ. #2- INFP


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## Pressed Flowers (Oct 8, 2014)

@SugarPlum Can you explain why you relate so much to Allie from The Notebook?


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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

angelcat said:


> Seems self-explanatory from THAT description (fairly straightforward assessment), but fine. Here's an abstract one, for kicks, and one that has troubled my mind for quite some time.
> 
> Ti thought process:
> 
> ...


HAHHH! That is funny. I am like both of you wrapped in a bow, I guess. @[email protected]

I don't really dig around to find out why I don't like or dislike something. Or why I did something etc. BUT I need to anaylize OTHERS. Like WHY did they say that? WHY did they do that? WHAT does this mean.... I hate it when people ask me the questions I ask them..like all the "WHYs". To them I am like "Bec I do/don't"... "bec I can"... But with THEM, I NEED to know the reasoning, and the thought process behind them. If someone doesn't like a movie, I need to know WHY. If I don't like it, it is because, well...I just don't.


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## Pressed Flowers (Oct 8, 2014)

I'm interested to see what @angelcat says about the GOT characters you relate to...


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## Dragheart Luard (May 13, 2013)

@SugarPlum I haven't said anything specific about your type, and the ENFP thing was about my former friend. So, from what I've seen I think that a feeling dominant type is likely for you, and I haven't noticed Fi vibes. Si/Ne and Fe/Ti seems the most likely option. Indeed, in socionics ESE (ESFJ) isn't a rigid uptight type, but one that loves to spread new information and it's enthusiastic in general (even the type name is known as enthusiast), and to be honest that's the vibe that I'm getting. EXFPs can be bubbly and silly too, but is more subdued and they can quickly flip to a serious mode if the circumstances demand that due to Fi-Te. The thing is, both EXFPs have strong Fe in socionics, but it's *not valued by them*, so they mostly use it for *mockery purposes and keeping the emotional atmosphere isn't part of their concerns*. Then, ESFJ has demostrative Se, so they can be quite forceful, but still it's not the main focus of that type. So, ESFP and ESFJ can look alike on the surface, but they're worlds apart. The same applies to ENFP and ENFJ (the latter has demostrative Ne, but again it's more of a mockery thing)

I fail to see the mocking Fe thing in your posts, and your Ne seems more random in a sense than the Ne of an ENFP, like it has a child like quality typical of tert functions. It's like you tap into it, but the result isn't as good compared to a Ne dom. The same applies to other tert functions, like I may overuse my Fi, but it lacks the nuance of Fi dom/aux, so it's more black and white.

So for votes, would be ESFJ or ISFJ, but I don't see inferior Ne.


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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

alittlebear said:


> @SugarPlum Can you explain why you relate so much to Allie from The Notebook?


Yay. A "why" question LOL. I just would have reacted JUST like her in all the situations she was in. I mean everything. Her bubbliness. Her semi rebelliousness. Her indecisiveness. Her fight between comfort and love. Her different personalities. Her quirkiness. Her desire to be herself and be with the one she loves, but having so many other factors to take into account. The fact that her heart's true desire won. She seems a little emotionally/mentally unstable, but in a silly way, not a "call the looney-bin" way. The fact that Noah grounds her, the way my husband ground me. Her love of laughter. Her ability to become serious, yet always has that childish essence. There isn't anything that wasn't like me really. I am not good with specifics. 

Yes, you're right @Blue Flare , my bad. The first time I read it, I thought you meant me. I reread it and realized it was about your friend. I have no I dea why I said that lol. Don't mind me.


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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

@Dreamer777 - I forgot to reply about my Ennergram. This isn't up for debate, I am absolutely sure on it.

I am a sx 4, 6, 8 "The Truth Teller". There is so much about my personality that has not shown. Enneagram fits me better than anything in MBTI. 

In Socionics I always score ENFP - Fi, but I resonate a lot to the ENFj description and the Beta quadrant.

On the function tests I usually have the INFP, ENFP, and ISFJ as my results (they usually give you 3 options). They range in order though.


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

SugarPlum said:


> @_Dreamer777_ - I forgot to reply about my Ennergram. This isn't up for debate, I am absolutely sure on it.
> 
> I am a sx 4, 6, 8 "The Truth Teller". There is so much about my personality that has not shown. Enneagram fits me better than anything in MBTI.
> 
> ...


Sorry to jump in but you use this site for the socionics test? Sociotype.com: Socionics Applied


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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

EDIT on the Notebook thing... I can probably give you more concrete specific example if needed.

That is the only one I use @shinynotshiny (and many many times). I next to always, get ENFp - Fi


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## Dreamer777 (Jan 15, 2011)

SugarPlum said:


> HAHHH! That is funny. I am like both of you wrapped in a bow, I guess. @[email protected]
> 
> I don't really dig around to find out why I don't like or dislike something. Or why I did something etc. BUT I need to anaylize OTHERS. Like WHY did they say that? WHY did they do that? WHAT does this mean.... I hate it when people ask me the questions I ask them..like all the "WHYs". To them I am like "Bec I do/don't"... "bec I can"... But with THEM, I NEED to know the reasoning, and the thought process behind them. If someone doesn't like a movie, I need to know WHY. If I don't like it, it is because, well...I just don't.


Well, it's not fair to say a person who uses Te does not analyze. There are more functions in the stack that are working with Te just like as is working with Ti. So you can't just say Te doesn't analyze. Te just doesn't go to the long length. So that wasn't really a great answer for Te from angelcat. I appreciated her Ti answer, but the Te was really a bit mocked.

But however as in analyzing people's feelings like SugarPlum says here, i do that all the time. i want to know why people like this or don't like this or etc. That's my Fi working with my other functions, Fi is my dominant, all 4 of my functions are working together to analyze. So even though i'm a Te user, i am constantly analyzing things, but just through my Fi rather than Ti. I'm a Fi dom so Ti is pretty much null and void in me, because my dom function is an introverted judging function and has no room in it for the other introverted judging function.

Do ESFJ's like to know why a person doesn't like a movie? do they want to analyze all those why questions SugarPlum just mentioned? I doubt it.

I have a relative that's an ESFJ, and she's alot of fun, she's the hostest with the mostest for sure, at least one of them, and she does want harmony in the group settings. But analyze, oh no, that would be painful for her, she couldn't be bothered with such things. If she is going to analyze anything it's how one decor looks better than the other, or which seasoning makes the food taste better, or which hairdo she wants, it's S things, not N abstract things. 

SugarPlum likes to live like a hermit and doesnt' keep alot of friends, these are not the traits of an ESFJ either. 

So for me ESFJ just makes no sense whatsoever. Si dom doesn't make sense to me either, she is much too adventurous to wanting change to be a Si dom. 

i can't compare you to Alley in Notebook yet, because i would have to watch it again to really look closer to give an opinion on that. I did like her passion and the fun she had in the rain in the boat and she wanted to be free from society's stigma of who she should marry, and follow her heart with love, etc, all of that i loved about her, but i don't know if i looked close enough to really see her properly, i had my eyes more on the guy, he was such a dream guy, an ideal guy in my books, lol. But of course that is acting. IRL he's not like what he was in the movie. But sure was a nice fantasy.

To me your answer here about wanting to know all the why's about someone etc, seems very INF for both INFJ's and INFP's. Analyzing it with the heart, but INFJ's know what Ti means, INFP's don't.

Like an INFJ would understand the definition of Ti on cognitive processes. 

You really didn't grasp the Ti description in it's more technical format. That shows real low Ti or hardly no Ti in you. 

Tell me about your fashion style? and the style of your home decor?


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

SugarPlum said:


> EDIT on the Notebook thing... I can probably give you more concrete specific example if needed.
> 
> That is the only one I use @_shinynotshiny_ (and many many times). I next to always, get ENFp - Fi


Just checking because I get the most consistent results


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

Dreamer777 said:


> Well, it's not fair to say a person who uses Te does not analyze. There are more functions in the stack that are working with Te just like as is working with Ti. So you can't just say Te doesn't analyze. Te just doesn't go to the long length. So that wasn't really a great answer for Te from angelcat.


I have to agree to an extent. I think Ti and Te are capable of analysis, they just have a different focus. If I understand it right, Ti is more likely to look at a subject from many or all angles, whereas Te is more likely to push away data it considers irrelevant. They'll both be influenced by other functions. Te _alone _may be less analytical in comparison to Ti, which is where I think @angelcat was going. (Or I hope lol)


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## Pressed Flowers (Oct 8, 2014)

@SugarPlum can you explain how you relate to Dany from GOT when you get the chance?


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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

shinynotshiny said:


> Just checking because I get the most consistent results



Here are the most recent results. I posted the results on my other thread, but I don't think anyone cared at the moment 
(EII - INFj) followed closely by;
IEE (ENFp): 93% as likely as EII.
ESI (ISFj): 80% as likely as EII.
IEI (INFp): 78% as likely as EII.

Taken a couple days ago..

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

BUT in my phone the most recent screenshot says...
IEE - 2Fi (ENFp)followed closely by;
IEI (INFp): 96% as likely as IEE.
EII (INFj): 95% as likely as IEE.
EIE (ENFj): 76% as likely as IEE.

That was taken on April 30th... but usually I get the ENFp-Fi.


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## Deadly Decorum (Feb 23, 2014)

@SugarPlum- I'm glad it's sinking in. It's so nice to see people reconsider their preconceived notions of type. Personally, I find that to be one of my favorite aspects of typing (Unless I'm tripping myself up for being too "stupid" to get it.  I'm realizing that's the wrong way to view it).

Another example:






Again, she's recalling past experiences... but notice how difficult it is for her to explain her songwriting process. Long pauses and stuttering, for one thing, like she's trying to string together something she knows but cannot explain. When she explains rabbit.... you still don't really know what she's talking about. Are rabbit and fox real or imagined? The message behind Cornflake Girl is the concept of betrayal (tempered with Fe here), and it's label is also a conceptual one. People still don't really know what "Cornflake Girl" means. Some people theorize that cornflake girls symbolize the women who betray you and how common they are, and that raisin girls symbolize the women who won't turn on you, and how rare they are to find (There's more cornflakes in a box of Raisin Bran than there are raisins). Some people accuse her of lying due to a cereal commercial she was in prior to her fame, but she's not. That's how Ni-Se works. It develops concepts inspired through Se, and uses symbolism to explain what's difficult to describe.

There's also Se in here... the way reggae music triggered her Ni revelation, and how she expresses a singular concept (Ni) through multiple visual platforms. She's so INFJ it's not even funny. Hopefully this will be useful in determining your type, and why memory is irrelevant to cognition.

You already know my thoughts on ISFJ for you. I'm not typing you based on social behavior. It's that your Ne comes across as stronger than your Ti imo, and that most of your posts are an Fe frenzy. I don't think ISFJ is very plausible due to this, but if you want to type yourself as an ISFJ to allow the "I" to represent your introverted qualities, that's your choice.

Ti is abstract and subjective. It nitpicks logical concepts before accepting it as truth. It corresponds with Fe because it makes sense of social behavior- why people act, think and behave the way they do, as well as social rules and norms. It determines which Extroverted behaviors, Feelings and norms are logical and illogical. Te is concrete and objective. It determines if something is logical or illogical or if it will work, what most effective, based on what it objectively knows to be true. This is why Te is notoriously pragmatic and decisive. It corresponds with Fi because it provides objective evidence to support Fi's internal sense of right and wrong, fair and unfair, and justice and injustice. 

If you're having trouble determining if an ethical activist is an Fe or Fi type, discover if they're promoting these values because it makes no sense to treat objects with such cruelty or malice, and that being so illogical causes objective harm (Sexism is harmful and hurts women! Look at all the poor women who have been abused *insert sob story to strum the heart strings* Shame on you! Acting like X causes Y! So cruel! So illogical!), or if they're touting objective facts and resources to prove their internalized values (You think women are privileged? *insert externalized examples of women getting the short end of the shtick ad nauseam* Fuck your feelings. Look at the facts!). That should clear up the confusion quickly.
@shinynotshiny- Yes, Te is definitely capable of analysis, but in the realm of what objectively works and what doesn't, whereas Ti analyzes in a more nitpicky way, tearing objectivity to shreds. And Te isn't blind to objectivity either- if something doesn't work, Te tosses it out and resorts to plan B. Nice observation.


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## Dreamer777 (Jan 15, 2011)

SugarPlum said:


> @Dreamer777 - I forgot to reply about my Ennergram. This isn't up for debate, I am absolutely sure on it.
> 
> I am a sx 4, 6, 8 "The Truth Teller". There is so much about my personality that has not shown. Enneagram fits me better than anything in MBTI.
> 
> ...


You do seem bubbly in your communication on here. You also show alot of introversion ways, but an ENFP is a more introverted extrovert.

Because of your response to Ti, i think i would choose INFP for you, for me it is a toss between INFP and ENFP, sometimes (but no so much) even wondering about ISFP a little here and there (the other Fi dom). I still see both INFP and ENFP in you, but i think it's more INFP. When an INFP gets stressed they have Te blowups. You even spoke of those volcanic type of blow ups. Even the way your hubby described you was the description of an INFP - or Fi dom, can't articulate what your feeling to others but are very emotional and dramatic, i'm very emotional, i can drive my family crazy sometimes because i'm so emotional but yet can't express my feelings properly to anyone, so in my Te blow ups i become a crazy harsh ESTJ but in a immature way, so people can take it that i'm kinda nutty. Inferior Te blow ups want to boss people around and yell and stuff like that. INFP's are famous for this, i think ISFP can explain themself a bit better because they don't have Ne going on, they are Sensors and have Ni in tert instead of Ne. INFP's are abstract intuitives and have Ne in aux which can mess with them when they are trying to articulate sometimes cause Ne can interrupt their train of thought. 

However the way you approach your style of the thread and your posts, you seem like an ENFP.

You in the end have to choose your best fit of what type you think you are. Whatever you choose i'm happy with, cause accepting a type can sometimes take a long time and you have to keep learning. I only want to know that you feel like in any small way i've been able to help you along with the others, and i i hope you enjoyed the ride and continue to enjoy the ride of trying to figure out what type you are???

I think we all can agree that you are a very nice person to all of us on here and we appreciate you. :wink:

God Bless and Good Luck! :happy:


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## 68097 (Nov 20, 2013)

alittlebear said:


> I'm interested to see what @angelcat says about the GOT characters you relate to...





> On Game of Throne's...Not many iNtuitives to relate to, but I probably relate the most (when at my natural state) to a mix of Catelyn Stark and Danaerys NOW. Daenarys reminds me of how I was when living at home, as a teen. But when I was outside of my troubled home, I was much more Margaery'esque. Now, I could definitely say I am pretty identical to Catelyn, with a side of Tyrion (oddly enough). His sense of humor for sure. So that is a hard one.


Relating to characters doesn't indicate type. That being said, Catelyn is an ISFJ -- inferior Ne. Fear of the future. Dany is debatable, but I think she's an ESFJ with a pretty substandard Ni mystical overlay that serves her well... once in a blue moon. Margaery is the MOST ESFJ that ever ESFJ-d. Tyrion's sense of humor is all Ne/Ti/Fe related.



> @angelcat you have been SO patient and given me so much to work with. I was your 'rose bud' in this process and now I am about to 'bloom'. I am exited. So do YOU see ISFJ or xNFP more? Just curious.


SFJ. I still think inferior Ti. Why?

Well, the most recent example:



> I don't really dig around to find out why I don't like or dislike something. Or why I did something etc. BUT I need to anaylize OTHERS. Like WHY did they say that? WHY did they do that? WHAT does this mean.... I hate it when people ask me the questions I ask them..like all the "WHYs". To them I am like "Bec I do/don't"... "bec I can"... But with THEM, I NEED to know the reasoning, and the thought process behind them. If someone doesn't like a movie, I need to know WHY. If I don't like it, it is because, well...I just don't.


Your answers all revolve around PEOPLE. You analyze... people. When asked about being forced into the witness protection program, you first thought was PEOPLE. MY FAMILY. MY MOM. PEOPLE FIRST.

This, I think, indicates Fe-dom, with Ti inferior meddling once in awhile, when it comes to ... oh, look: PEOPLE.

I also need to know WHY people do and don't like things. Then, I argue with them about it. Heh. 



> To me your answer here about wanting to know all the why's about someone etc, seems very INF


This is an incorrect anti-SFJ stereotype. Sorry, but it is. SF's are just as capable of caring about the why as any other type. 



> Do ESFJ's like to know why a person doesn't like a movie? do they want to analyze all those why questions SugarPlum just mentioned? I doubt it.


Why wouldn't they? Just because your aunt never does it doesn't mean no other ESFJ doesn't do it. Whatever Si takes an interest in, it cares to learn more about.



> I have a relative that's an ESFJ, and she's alot of fun, she's the hostest with the mostest for sure, at least one of them, and she does want harmony in the group settings. But analyze, oh no, that would be painful for her, she couldn't be bothered with such things. If she is going to analyze anything it's how one decor looks better than the other, or which seasoning makes the food taste better, or which hairdo she wants, it's S things, not N abstract things.


Yeah, again, it's because she CARES about those things. Personal interest. Fe-doms are not droids. The things they care about, they analyze. The things they don't, they don't. 



> I have to agree to an extent. I think Ti and Te are capable of analysis, they just have a different focus. If I understand it right, Ti is more likely to look at a subject from many or all angles, whereas Te is more likely to push away data it considers irrelevant. They'll both be influenced by other functions. Te alone may be less analytical in comparison to Ti, which is where I think @angelcat was going. (Or I hope lol)


Yes, that's where I was going. Objective reasoning. Te says: it's a hammer, useful for building things. Ti says: what if it's not a hammer? In a different social setting, would it be called something else? Is it even real? What makes it real? Is it that we can hold it -- does that make it real? ... off, into high abstracting we go. Woo.


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## Dreamer777 (Jan 15, 2011)

angelcat said:


> Yeah, again, it's because she CARES about those things. Personal interest. Fe-doms are not droids. The things they care about, they analyze. The things they don't, they don't.


Fe doms are different. S Fe doms are different to N Fe doms. An ENFJ would analyze more because they are also in the idealist/dreamer category, they are NF"s. SJ's are not going to analyze those things as much as NF's are, and even more so the introverted NF's.

ESFJ's are lavish and want alot of extroverting with alot of people. SugarPlum keeps telling you all that she's a hermit, she even said she hates people, and she only keeps a few close people in her life. It's like she keeps pointing out this part about herself and everyone keeps ignoring it, it is so puzzling to me how it can be ignored? 

My purpose to help try to type her is not that i have to be right. But it's that i want to share as much knowledge that i have with her so that she can gain more knowledge, and then yes i am biased about her being INFP or ENFP, but even if she isn't, i'm not going to feel offended in any way. I relate to too much of alot of what she says. I'm just not as perky with extroverting in communication as she is. But she did tell you guys that she's a hermit irl. Her extroverting ways in interracting with everyone on here is what makes me think she's ENFP. But she seems inferior Te, so i agree her thinking function is very weak or inferior (like mine is), but i don't think it's Ti like you guys do, i think it's Te. Or she could be an ENFP who is not skilled with Ti neither.

Oh and SugarPlum by the way, in high school they put me in the gifted class because i was so smart, but i would smoke weed every morning and sleep in class til they kicked me out because i was going through emotional issues with home life and i was depressed and also could not stand being in a gifted class with just a few gifted people, i wanted to be with the rock and rollers in the normal class. I wasn't rude at all, but yeah i would just sleep, never rude to any teachers. But i follow my heart. My heart did not like that type of lifestyle, i just wanted to be in with the normal people and not in anything special. I had no desire for it. I actually did end up being a high school drop out, but got my GED and did some adult vocational courses a couple years later.


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## 68097 (Nov 20, 2013)

Dreamer777 said:


> Fe doms are different. S Fe doms are different to N Fe doms. An ENFJ would analyze more because they are also in the idealist/dreamer category, they are NF"s. SJ's are not going to analyze those things as much as NF's are, and even more so the introverted NF's.


While I agree that Si/Ni-dom/auxes are different, I disagree that N's are more inclined to analyze things in general. I think that's typism bias. I also disagree that SJs cannot be "dreamers" -- if anything, their Ne makes them inclined toward more visibly externalized dreaminess, LIKE the NPs.



> ESFJ's are lavish and want alot of extroverting with alot of people. SugarPlum keeps telling you all that she's a hermit, she even said she hates people, and she only keeps a few close people in her life. It's like she keeps pointing out this part about herself and everyone keeps ignoring it, it is so puzzling to me how it can be ignored?


Most of them do, yes. But not all of them. I think there's a sliding scale of extroversion with most people. 

Didn't she also say that as a teenager, she was far more outgoing? If not, then fine, I could accept introvert.



> But she seems inferior Te, so i agree her thinking function is very weak or inferior (like mine is), but i don't think it's Ti like you guys do, i think it's Te. Or she could be an ENFP who is not skilled with Ti neither.


Maybe you're right, and it isn't. But she is not a Ne-dom. She wants _specifics_ in the things people ask her. High Ne doesn't need specifics. It leaps into the conversation and runs away with it before you have the sentence out, because BAM -- it gets the concept and can BS the rest. 

I have been told, by other high Ne users, that if given a topic off the cuff, Ne can grasp the general concept and come across as quite ... expert in it, even though it isn't. That is why NPs get a reputation for being "intellectuals" ... whether or not they ARE as individuals, it's because Ne BLUFFS so well and deals in such rich abstractions that people sit back and say, "Wow, this person really is smart and has studied a lot!" 

ESFJs can do that too, quite well, due to high Ne, but not nearly as well as the ENXP types. (My father... I used to think he was an ENFP because he's so intellectual and grasps concepts so easily and can brainstorm without a second thought, and BS his way through ANY PRESENTATION ... he sits at dinner, someone mentions something, and he's an expert on it, until he reaches the point where he admits he doesn't know; now I suspect he's an ambiverted ESFJ. Inferior Ti, which is always analyzing, and churning things over, and wanting to know the WHY of everything. He is the most over-thinking man I have ever seen, but it's all in a very abstract, I-wish-I-could-articulate-what-I-am-thinking-but-I-can't way. He goes out, is around people for awhile, then comes home and wants to be alone... to think. To process. To deal with stuff. Yet, I have no doubt he's a Fe-dom, because it's all about PEOPLE. Always. Lovely man, really. I'm so blessed he's in my life.) 

Yet, here we have the OP asking for examples, and specifics, and things that she can comprehend internally ... which, frankly, reminds myself a lot of me when I was running around in the INTP forum at first, mistaken in believing I was one. I wanted to scream: STOP ABSTRACTING AND GIVE ME SPECIFIC EXAMPLES OF COGNITION, DAMMIT. I STILL want to scream that, even though I've grasped them better now. (I won't say fully, because I have to work hard to learn it.)

Here's a question for you, which would either contradict or support a theory of mine: how much effort would you go to, to correct people's wrongful assumptions about you?

Fi has a reputation for being centered in self, and in not really needing agreement to feel comfortable in its assessments. Do you find that true in yourself?


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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

Can everyone give a list of characteristic traits that you see in me for the type you believe I am. In a list format, no explanations with them...? Kind of like a list of reasons/proof that back up your conclusion. Bullet points. Cold hard facts. Thanks mucho.


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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

Dreamer777 said:


> ESFJ's are lavish and want alot of extroverting with alot of people. SugarPlum keeps telling you all that she's a hermit, she even said she hates people, and she only keeps a few close people in her life. It's like she keeps pointing out this part about herself and everyone keeps ignoring it, it is so puzzling to me how it can be ignored?
> 
> My purpose to help try to type her is not that i have to be right. But it's that i want to share as much knowledge that i have with her so that she can gain more knowledge, and then yes i am biased about her being INFP or ENFP, but even if she isn't, i'm not going to feel offended in any way. I relate to too much of alot of what she says. I'm just not as perky with extroverting in communication as she is. But she did tell you guys that she's a hermit irl. Her extroverting ways in interracting with everyone on here is what makes me think she's ENFP. But she seems inferior Te, so i agree her thinking function is very weak or inferior (like mine is), but i don't think it's Ti like you guys do, i think it's Te. Or she could be an ENFP who is not skilled with Ti neither.
> 
> Oh and SugarPlum by the way, in high school they put me in the gifted class because i was so smart, but i would smoke weed every morning and sleep in class til they kicked me out because i was going through emotional issues with home life and i was depressed and also could not stand being in a gifted class with just a few gifted people, i wanted to be with the rock and rollers in the normal class. I wasn't rude at all, but yeah i would just sleep, never rude to any teachers. But i follow my heart. My heart did not like that type of lifestyle, i just wanted to be in with the normal people and not in anything special. I had no desire for it. I actually did end up being a high school drop out, but got my GED and did some adult vocational courses a couple years later.


AND _*"You do seem bubbly in your communication on here. You also show alot of introversion ways, but an ENFP is a more introverted extrovert.

Because of your response to Ti, i think i would choose INFP for you, for me it is a toss between INFP and ENFP, sometimes (but no so much) even wondering about ISFP a little here and there (the other Fi dom). I still see both INFP and ENFP in you, but i think it's more INFP. When an INFP gets stressed they have Te blowups. You even spoke of those volcanic type of blow ups. Even the way your hubby described you was the description of an INFP - or Fi dom, can't articulate what your feeling to others but are very emotional and dramatic, i'm very emotional, i can drive my family crazy sometimes because i'm so emotional but yet can't express my feelings properly to anyone, so in my Te blow ups i become a crazy harsh ESTJ but in a immature way, so people can take it that i'm kinda nutty. Inferior Te blow ups want to boss people around and yell and stuff like that. INFP's are famous for this, i think ISFP can explain themself a bit better because they don't have Ne going on, they are Sensors and have Ni in tert instead of Ne. INFP's are abstract intuitives and have Ne in aux which can mess with them when they are trying to articulate sometimes cause Ne can interrupt their train of thought.

However the way you approach your style of the thread and your posts, you seem like an ENFP."*_

This!... Every. Word.

To be honest, I haven't felt THIS understood in my whole life actually. Thank you. BTW, I am also a 4w5. My bubbliness is me being insecure, if y'all haven't caught on to that. :th_sad:


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

I really,really feel you're Fi/Te...
Edit: of course,with Ne too


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## Deadly Decorum (Feb 23, 2014)

@Dreamer777 It sounds to me like your tert Si is tripping you up, as you keep providing personal examples, stereotypes, behavior and your personal, absolute view of how you perceive ESFJs and INFPs as evidence to disprove ESFJ. A person's style and interior decor preferences will tell you little to nothing... and have you ever considered that things like style or film are "S" things rather than "abstract N" things? You can have a straight laced, uptight ESFJ who's closed off to new things and gossips at church all day, or an ESFJ punk rocker who spends time alone to play guitar. Behavior does not equal type. Activate that Ne a little more. It may allow you to see where we're coming from. 

Most of what negates ESFJ in your mind are negative stereotypes. @Blue Flare gave a brief yet accurate description of an ESFJ that's much better than anything you'd read on personalitypage.com (kill it with fire). And yes, I did read that she considers herself an introvert, but that doesn't negate the higher usage of Ne over Ti and the exceedingly strong use of Fe. Again, it's not about behavior, but cognition. My mother is an ESFJ, and is currently a hermit and also claims to hate people. She's still an ESFJ.... forced circumstances and general unhealthiness led her there. Consider all the variables. 

@angelcat Ti is essentially solipsism.


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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

And sorry, I am not gonna answer that John Lennon crap. Sorry, I do not see at all how answering that far fetched, stereotypical, and cliche question could be a determining factor in my type. The end.


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## Dangerose (Sep 30, 2014)

SugarPlum said:


> And sorry, I am not gonna answer that John Lennon crap. Sorry, I do not see at all how answering that far fetched, stereotypical, and cliche question could be a determining factor in my type. The end.


So, SugarPlum,have you made up your type then?
I think the Lennon question is worth something...even if you explained what parts of it would appeal to you and what would be difficult.
But if you are sure you are INFP, anything anyone else believes shouldn't matter...right?


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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

It is just an asinine question to me. Because HE did something, I have to do it too? Like seriously? 

Okay in that case LOTS of SJs value tradition and routine. So it would be like asking if someone would stay in the same home their whole life because thats all they know, to determine if they have high Si.

Not all NPs are gonna wanna bail on their family. Cuz guess what? Some of them hold their FAMILY as their CORE VALUES. 

Not all SJs are gonna stay in ONE place because its all they know and its safe. Cuz guess what? They may need to move for the sake of their responsibilities, career, family, income etc.

Sorry, i dont agree with that question, and wont subject myself to being judged on my answer the way I have been thus far. I say one tging and it gets twisted.

Obviously this post has turned into something it wasn't meant to be, just like last time. Over it.


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

SugarPlum said:


> *thought process*
> 
> *just sitting here, wondering how the heck my 'feels' can be misunderstood, twisted, and then misrepresented.... but that's okay, hold on, i know.... because I am ESFJ/Fe , so there is no point in actually hearing me. Shinynotshiny is in fact Fi, so she gets heard, objectively. Now it makes sense.*


I don't mean to take the thread away from you, and I'm sorry my participation led to this :/


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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

shinynotshiny said:


> SugarPlum said:
> 
> 
> > *thought process*
> ...


Its not you I am pissed about. Its the whole situation. As a whole. If you zoom out for a minute and look at it... yeah idk. Its not you personally. Thank you.


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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

And oswin, my heat isnt directed personally towards you at all. i know i was talking to you, but not about you. Again, its the situation. 

No, i am not settled on a type. I was going to be open to unbiased, non subjective help. I want to be ASSESSED as ME , compared to ME. I dont want to be compared to Tyra, Tori, your sister, your mom, your friend, john lennon. I have my own set of circumstances that shaped MY life and I dont share any with them. My gawd, how is nobody seeing this as a faulty typing system.

Like take your unbiased knowledge of the functions, figure me out from there.


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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

I dont see anywhere in the Ne or even Se description s in any books etc where it says they will be the type to drop their kids and spouses in an instant. WTF?


Just like I dont see in the Bible that you have to speak in tongues in order to go to heaven.

Grrrarghhjdfdhdjsj

Okay, vent over. Sorry. Carry on.


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

I think you'll benefit most by making this decision on your own.

Socionics helped me because I was able to compare ISTJ and INTJ in a way I couldn't with MBTI.

So: INFP vs ENFP and ISFJ vs ESFJ

That should be a starting point, assuming I got the links right.


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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

shinynotshiny said:


> I think you'll benefit most by making this decision on your own.
> 
> Socionics helped me because I was able to compare ISTJ and INTJ in a way I couldn't with MBTI.
> 
> ...


You read my mind. I've already been thoroughly taking a deep look into the quadrants. And that is my next stop. I think i am going to look at ALL 8 of the F types, very very carefully. 

Sorry to all about the eruption. Again, it was about the whole situation. I will let you all know if and when i come to a conclusion. 

But thank you ALL for your time, even if i didnt agree. Thank you.

buhbye


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## Greyhart (Oct 13, 2014)

21 page aLREADY?! Anyway. ESFJ still. :| I see more much Ne>Ti.



> Not all NPs are gonna wanna bail on their family. Cuz guess what? Some of them hold their FAMILY as their CORE VALUES.


What? Where did this came from? I mean did someone brought up bailing out of the family? Also "not all" implies that most. Was this brought up? O_O Relationship with the family is not based on a type, I don't believe it.


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## 68097 (Nov 20, 2013)

Marvelous solution for the OP, to ease her distress:

Since you feel previous opinions are prejudiced against you, simply delete your account, wait an unidentified amount of time, re-join with a new username/avatar, and post a questionnaire that you have thought over and answered carefully over a period of time. (IE, fill it in, sit on it awhile, and see if anything changes. My responses change day to day... part of the whimsicalness of Ne.) Do not be bubblier than you are in real life, and only reveal what you feel comfortable revealing.

That way, you can have a fresh analysis without anyone suspecting who you are -- so no previous typism bias.

If people say you are INFP, so be it.

If they say you are ESFJ, then at least you know it's not because of a carry over bias from a previous thread.

I wish you luck in finding your true type. 'Bye.


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## Deadly Decorum (Feb 23, 2014)

Greyhart said:


> 21 page aLREADY?! Anyway. ESFJ still. :| I see more much Ne>Ti.
> 
> 
> 
> What? Where did this came from? I mean did someone brought up bailing out of the family? Also "not all" implies that most. Was this brought up? O_O Relationship with the family is not based on a type, I don't believe it.


She is referring to this:



> Could you pull a John Lennon? Could you abandon your life as it is now, your family, your children, everything you love, and just chase after your dreams? Even if you'll never see your current life again? Pack your bags, ride elephants and giraffes in Africa, do drugs with an African shaman? Right now?


I was testing for Ne dominance. The fact this is hyperbolic and exaggerated is part of the point. I wanted to test if she would grasp what I meant.... jumping on a possibility to the point of sometimes forgetting reality, the present and what's currently in front of you and coming across as reckless and impractical as a result, because your vision sounds so *grand*. Dominate Ne is not really indecisive like many believe (or like I thought in the past). It's like Jung said:



> Whenever intuition predominates, a particular and unmistakable psychology presents itself. Because intuition is orientated by the object, a decided dependence upon external situations is discernible, but it has an altogether different character from the dependence of the sensational type. The intuitive is never to be found among the generally recognized reality values, but he is always present where possibilities exist. He has a keen nose for things in the bud pregnant with future promise. He can never exist in stable, long-established conditions of generally acknowledged though limited value: because his eye is constantly ranging for new possibilities, stable conditions have an air of impending suffocation. He seizes hold of new objects and new ways with eager intensity, sometimes with extraordinary enthusiasm, only to abandon them cold-bloodedly, without regard and apparently without remembrance, as soon as their range becomes clearly defined and a promise of any considerable future development no longer clings to them. As long as a possibility exists, the intuitive is bound to it with thongs of fate. It is as though his whole life went out into the new situation. One gets the impression, which he himself shares, that he has just reached the definitive turning point in his life, and that from now on nothing else can seriously engage his thought and feeling. How- [p. 465] ever reasonable and opportune it may be, and although every conceivable argument speaks in favour of stability, a day will come when nothing will deter him from regarding as a prison, the self-same situation that seemed to promise him freedom and deliverance, and from acting accordingly. Neither reason nor feeling can restrain or discourage him from a new possibility, even though it may run counter to convictions hitherto unquestioned.


Jung is a bit of an extreme example, of course, but I think the point still stands on some level.

I didn't mean to imply that NP will bail on their family or even desire to. It's not meant to be taken literally, but illustrate a point, and demonstrate the reckless abandonment of present realities, to the point of coming across as hysterical or arbitrary. Hell, the Ne dom might take their family along. You think a dom Ne would correct any mistakes I might make about their dom function, and would even envision their family embarking upon a grand adventure with them if I got it all wrong. I agree family relationships are personal things, not cognition related.

Not arguing any type here btw; just clearing up misconceptions about my example.


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## Greyhart (Oct 13, 2014)

@hoopla Aaah... For Lenon example. I was raised by ISTJ and ESFJ. They both instilled family=everything into me. I also have a tendency to lamp close friends into he "family" pile. I don't find either of these sentiments irrational tbh *cough*. Support your tribe and all that. Anyway, if I knew that my family was OK, supported and doesn't worry (too much) about me I could leave them to travel. I'd send postcards and call whenever I can of course. =_= This unlikely to ever happen because we are poor in money and health, though.



> Hell, the Ne dom might take their family along. You think a dom Ne would correct any mistakes I might make about their dom function, and would even envision their family embarking upon a grand adventure with them if I got it all wrong.


I'd probably want a friend or a companion with me. Someone to share it all with. Taking a family with me would be an overdo. They drive me insane as much as I love them.


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## Deadly Decorum (Feb 23, 2014)

Greyhart said:


> @hoopla Aaah... For Lenon example. I was raised by ISTJ and ESFJ. They both instilled family=everything into me. I also have a tendency to lamp close friends into he "family" pile. I don't find either of these sentiments irrational tbh *cough*. Support your tribe and all that. Anyway, if I knew that my family was OK, supported and doesn't worry (too much) about me I could leave them to travel. I'd send postcards and call whenever I can of course. =_= This unlikely to ever happen because we are poor in money and health, though.
> 
> 
> I'd probably want a friend or a companion with me. Someone to share it all with. Taking a family with me would be an overdo. They drive me insane as much as I love them.


I don't think they're irrational either. They're good values to have.

I'm sure an Ne dom would not forget their old life, would reach out to those they love, and would even pay homage to it if abandoned. Ne can definitely be reckless though, and abandon physical practicalities if it will serve the conceptual possibilities they hold with value. Anyone who cannot fathom such rabid idealism is probably not an ENxP. (Not implying your example negates ENTP btw; it doesn't). Simply many people who are fascinated with the idea of being an xNFP don't realize what it really entails... it's impulsive, sometimes reckless idealism. Ne lives off of it. And once the concept they're after is actualized, Ne abandons that one too in order to birth a new idea to play with. (The things they do don't have to be reckless or crazy btw... not at all... but Ne is still very much "on a whim", making them reckless in a non-literal sense).


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## Greyhart (Oct 13, 2014)

hoopla said:


> I don't think they're irrational either. They're good values to have.
> 
> I'm sure an Ne dom would not forget their old life, would reach out to those they love, and would even pay homage to it if abandoned. Ne can definitely be reckless though, and abandon physical practicalities if it will serve the conceptual possibilities they hold with value. Anyone who cannot fathom such rabid idealism is probably not an ENxP. (Not implying your example negates ENTP btw; it doesn't). Simply many people who are fascinated with the idea of being an xNFP don't realize what it really entails... it's impulsive, sometimes crazy idealism. Ne lives off of it.


That sounds like a Se too isn't it? Not so much of idealism but wanting to run off and go onto the wild adventures. I have an ESFP friend who hitchhikes across the Europe.


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## Deadly Decorum (Feb 23, 2014)

Greyhart said:


> That sounds like a Se too isn't it? Not so much of idealism but wanting to run off and go onto the wild adventures. I have an ESFP friend who hitchhikes across the Europe.


It could go either way. Why is a person wanting to go to the jungle? To physically experience all that it entails in all of it's forms (and maybe gain an internal revelation of what it all meant), or to imagine what it would be like? To dream about a place you've never been to and know nothing about, in order to play out these intangible possibilities, without knowing what will happen? I could be wrong but it seems to me like Se is more about the thrill of the experience, seeking after all these cool things they can engage in and do, and Ne is sheer curiosity of things that are unknowable, that can only be played out. So if an Ne is experience a sensory thing, the crux of the point is all the variables it will trigger. The sensory thing only serves as a prop, because it's not about the sensory thing at all, but the concept of it.

The two are rather easy to mix up, because they're both about possibilities. The difference is whether they're tangible or intangible. Ne is typically interested in an ideal world (whenever I think Ne I think utopia), whereas Se is simply happy to just engage and experience it in all it's forms.


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## Greyhart (Oct 13, 2014)

hoopla said:


> It could go either way. Why is a person wanting to go to the jungle? To physically experience all that it entails in all of it's forms (and maybe gain an internal revelation of what it all meant), or to imagine what it would be like? To dream about a place you've never been to and know nothing about, in order to play out these intangible possibilities, without knowing what will happen? I could be wrong but it seems to me like Se is more about the thrill of the experience, seeking after all these cool things they can engage in and do, and Ne is sheer curiosity of things that are unknowable, that can only be played out. So if an Ne is experience a sensory thing, the crux of the point is all the variables it will trigger. The sensory thing only serves as a prop, because it's not about the sensory thing at all, but the concept of it.
> 
> The two are rather easy to mix up, because they're both about possibilities. The difference is whether they're tangible or intangible.


That's correct. For the idea vs. experience. What I meant that SPs and NPs can look similar because of this eh... "observable" impulsively and gluttony for the New. People seem to think Se=sports period. While I think SPs and NPs mesh really well. I love STPs.

This Lenon example made me wish I had a responsible sibling I could dump "taking care of the family" duty. I'd probably worry about sibling too, though. :| Winning a million dollars and leaving them so my family could pay for their troubles could work too. I could jump with my ESFP friend. Except I am asthmatic and allergic to so many things I usually say "to life". And if I lose my glasses everything more than 4 inches from my face turns into abstract paining of colors and shapes. But that's what you have a travel buddy for. And inhaler and an injection of corticosteroids. Bless the medicine. Now I really need to win a lottery. But I don't gamble. Because poor. This is a closed circle. Dammit. :dry:


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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

I love how you know everything about me hoopla. I can totally read between the lines. You dont know that just the other day i was literally crying to my mom at a Starbucks, bec i cant just be that traveling gypsy. Go where the wind blows. I fantasize about such a big grand life, yet such a simple one too. I am always daydreaming of what it would be like to live abroad, and a different state and everything. These things are actual PROBLEMS for me, because they aren't a reality. My husband, you know the father of my children... the one i made vows to... the one i have loved since i was 15. Yeah, him. Well he wont budge. He wants to stay put. I have begged him, and even started looking for places to live in Idaho. And Georgia, and even texas. Id didnt make a difference. He said no, and he is my other half. I cant force him , and i sure as hell am not leaving him. 


There is a ton of shit you know nothing about. You havent asked me, "hey, jackie... have you ever thought about just picking up and goin? Just living out a fantasy. ... have you ever thought about adventure and novelty? " no, you asked if i would leave my family, and fricking go off to live a selfish fantasy. .. i am sorry... i have KIDSSSSSS and a spouse. So no, i sure as hell would not leave them. But have i dreamt about it, longing for it to the point it makes me sick and in tears? You fu***** bet yuh but that is not what you asked. Then you go off and say these little jabs about how Ne doms are, and hidden in those words you are saying i wasnt one of them. 

If i deactivate, does my stuff delete?


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## Barakiel (May 20, 2014)

SugarPlum said:


> I love how you know everything about me hoopla. I can totally read between the lines. You dont know that just the other day i was literally crying to my mom at a Starbucks, bec i cant just be that traveling gypsy. Go where the wind blows. I fantasize about such a big grand life, yet such a simple one too. I am always daydreaming of what it would be like to live abroad, and a different state and everything. These things are actual PROBLEMS for me, because they aren't a reality. My husband, you know the father of my children... the one i made vows to... the one i have loved since i was 15. Yeah, him. Well he wont budge. He wants to stay put. I have begged him, and even started looking for places to live in Idaho. And Georgia, and even texas. Id didnt make a difference. He said no, and he is my other half. I cant force him , and i sure as hell am not leaving him.
> 
> 
> There is a ton of shit you know nothing about. You havent asked me, "hey, jackie... have you ever thought about just picking up and goin? Just living out a fantasy. ... have you ever thought about adventure and novelty? " no, you asked if i would leave my family, and fricking go off to live a selfish fantasy. .. i am sorry... i have KIDSSSSSS and a spouse. So no, i sure as hell would not leave them. But have i dreamt about it, longing for it to the point it makes me sick and in tears? You fu***** bet yuh but that is not what you asked. Then you go off and say these little jabs about how Ne doms are, and hidden in those words you are saying i wasnt one of them.
> ...


Well, at least now we do know, so that's something. :happy: I don't have anything in the way of advice, aside from good luck. :tongue:

As far as I know, deactivating doesn't mean deleting, so likely it'll just put your account on hiatus, though don't quote me on that. :wink:


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## Dreamer777 (Jan 15, 2011)

oh gosh, i have a lot of catching up to do on here, alot has happened since i been gone.....

whew.... ok, everybody take some deep breaths and calm down..... 

And SugarPlum no your stuff won't delete, i've had my upset moments on here too, things i've regretted posting, etc, that i would also wish i could just delete myself and all my posts on here and just vanish. But no the posts don't get deleted. You can deleter your account but your posts will remain. And i'm glad i'm still here, once i'd get over the upset. Some upsets take a short time to get over, some long. I've taken many breaks from PerC, some short some long. But i always come back. Trying to help type people is actually what i like to do the most on here. 

i'll have to go back and read and see all what built up to this upset. I can't totally comment because i don't know the whole story. But definitely me as an INFP i would never leave my family as in my child and my animals. My Mom and Dad live in 2 different countries, so yes i've packed up my daughter and my animals and moved back and forth overseas. Even so a rabbit. Whomever is my family has to move with me. Even if it's a rabbit, dogs, cats, we all move as a family together. I've wished and yearned to just take off and be free since my daughter is grown and married, and even then i won't leave my daughter and my animals (me and her still live together and her hubby, and our animals are shared custody between us, LOL, both me and her are animal lovers.) 

INFP's are very loyal to their family, they are very sacrificing to their family. I have gotten upset many times through the years when i feel like no one cares about my needs and values and i do all the caring, but i always cool back down and stick it out. 

I have enough Ne in me to take off and find a new life by myself. I have that strength and braveness. I love to seek out a life that i want to live, that i love. INFP's are known to feel dissatisfied and yearn for a more ideal life. But i've learned enough along life's way, that home is where your heart is, and we love our close loved ones deeply. The grass is not greener on the other side. There is no perfect ideal life anywhere in this world. INFP's have to be careful about trying to find a more ideal life. I broke up with the man i loved because i didn't think the life was ideal enough (even though he loved me out of this world and worshipped the ground i walked on), but me as a young INFP at the time, ended the relationship. That was 22 years ago, and i wish i had never ended our relationship. It was the best life i ever had in a relationship. As a result of it, i've never been happy in any other relationship and they end quickly. So i spent most of my life since alone with no partner. I would say this to any type not just INFP, if who you have loves you and you love them, hold on to your life with them. Even if it's not the most ideal life. There is no ideal life, it doesn't exist, it's an illusion. The price to pay to have love and live with people you love and who loves you, is that you can't do everything you want to, you can't live every way you would like to, it takes sacrifice, compromise, patience, forgiveness, perseverance, dedication and self control.

The next best thing you could do is vacations to places that you would like to go to. Vacations are good for the family and the marriage, it's a fun way to do fun things together and be able to appreciate each other more.

There is no perfect life. Only the next one, in Heaven, then it will all be perfect. But not this flesh life here on earth, it will never ever be perfect.

Love is the greatest of all. The most ideal life is to have the most true and close love possible, to stick with those who love and appreciate you deeply. :happy:


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## Pressed Flowers (Oct 8, 2014)

Aww! Type it back up.  I want to hear about how all of you were in high school. 

It's hard to explain how I was, because... Everyone _did_ love me, but my snobby AP classmates saw themselves as superior to everyone (they grew up in the rich neighborhoods, they did sports, while I was unathletic and lived in the tiny very middle class neighborhood across town...) and especially me, since I seemed so "naive" and was so kind to everyone. They saw this as weakness, I guess. They started taking me a lot more seriously when they found I was ranked 2nd in the class at the beginning of our 11th grade year :snobby proud emoji: Of course they also started gossiping more about me then, but whatever. Of course they were just jealous. Still hurt, but it's understandable. 

I got on so much better with the "regular" and "honors" students, although I could only have one class with them. They gossiped like crazy and ridiculously bullied others as well... But at least at the end of the day they didn't think they were better than anyone. Maybe personally, but they didn't think themselves intellectually superior. The AP kids did. I couldn't bear that. I never fit in completely with the regular kids, but I was their true "nerd". And they loved me for it. It was wonderful. 

I also got on really well in drama. I was their bunny as well, but they didn't see me as stupid for it... They found it endearing. One kid would get jealous of me and he used to cause actual drama and make jokes about me and my lisp, but... He turned very kind. I didn't have a Twitter account, but he showed me where they made an anonymous tweet that said "Not many people know [alittlebear], but she is one of the nicest! sweetest people in the school." It was so kind. I felt stupid for not having a Twitter account, but I appreciated him showing me that (especially since he was class president). 

And I guess people did like me... They actually started a movement to get me as Homecoming Queen, the regular kids. Of course the more overtly popular girls run out, but... I appreciated the gesture. I didn't need all that fame anyway though, you know? I was fine working the Concession stand during the Homecoming Parade. Other people would cherish the honor more than me. I had enough accomplishments, I guess. I'm really just honored they considered me. 

Sorry, I'm going on. But I guess I can see how I was very Fe-dom in high school. I was a bit too bouncy, a bit too sincere... But I still did some pretty objectively Fe things.


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

@alittlebear, AP kids and rich neighborhoods? Ignored because came in 2nd?! I attended 2 high schools and that was never our situation as students :O
@SugarPlum, @Oswin, I started off a bit INTJ and ended INTP. I tallied up too many absences to count 

Alrighty, back to sleep! 

(Glad you seem better, SugarPlum  )


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## Barakiel (May 20, 2014)

alittlebear said:


> Aww! Type it back up.  I want to hear about how all of you were in high school.


This was quite recent, since I actually just got out of high school. I was mostly that weird kid who doesn't really participate in class, but get into a topic that I like, and I can go really in depth. I had this little group of friends that I talked to, and we pretty much trolled each other with stupid crap that we did. And when one of my friends, probably a Fe heavy one now that I think about it, was upset with my other friend, I think he would be a Ne dom, for being a jerk, I couldn't really help much (I should really reconnect with them, now that I think about it).

I also moved from one school to another back in... 2009? Yeah, late 2009. So I had to find some new friends, which took a bit of effort, but hey, always does. The classes I most enjoyed were Science (cause the teacher was awesome and bouncy, complete Ne+Ti), and Photography (because I got to take photos and go out into different places, and the people in the class were rather funny to be around). I was good at Maths, but I didn't enjoy it at all, no way. 

I could be rather annoying back in primary school, but I have this memory when everyone was crying at our school ending and not being able to see each other, and my only thought was "... You're going to be able to see each other again, it's not the bloody apocalypse." That was just brilliant. :laughing:


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

I started off as shy ENFJ-ish haha,I was definitely someone parents wanted their kids to be more like.
With my peers I was always the girl who said what everyone else was thinking haha,been called that a couple of times.
First 2 years of high school I always kinda competed with one girl who always sucked up to all the teachers,I never had grades _as_ good as her's or anything but she was still jealous and bitched about me a bit.
I remember I went to Latin contest just to beat her XD (and I did!)
She did not see it coming lol

Later I became kinda ESTP-ish.My teacher called me "My little badass" XD because I was never in school,when I was at school I did nothing school-related and my grades were pretty horrible and apparently I was talked about in teachers' lounge a lot.And that last year I ALWAYS cheated on tests,I don't think I actually learned anything that year XD
Still,I got away with most of it.In the end I did surprisingly well on our equivalent to SAT exams and got into college,without even studying,making people jealous again XD
Ofc I don't care about that since I'm done with college now,which could be seen as an ESTP-ish move too


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## TreeBob (Oct 11, 2008)

SugarPlum said:


> *
> *
> THIS was mine and an administrators conversation. Well, pooie. Oh well. I wish I would have read some kind of disclaimer before I began. It is what it is I guess. I wonder why they do things like this though...?


Could I possibly have you review my attachment below?









As you can see at the bottom, YOU clicked that you agreed with the rules of the forum before you registered. When you click on the rule button a window pops up (As you can see in the picture) and read the highlighted area. After you have read that please read rule 5 which you also, just broke.


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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

TreeBob said:


> SugarPlum said:
> 
> 
> > *
> ...


Hi, TreeBob. Firstly I would like to mention that above, i said I was fine with staying in my account because you told me that you don't allow me to delete my account etc. 

I also said I wish I would have READ the disclaimer. I never said you didn't have one. So I was actually taking responsibility. 

And I guess I did break #5 (again, I didn't read the rules thoroughly... My fault). I have and would never do that with other conversations, but I did this because it was just an exchange with a rule, that technically, everyone would benefit from seeing. I mean, I apologize for semi breaking this rule, and I now know not to do so again. 

Since you are here, is there any way I could have 2 threads that I personally started, deleted?


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## TreeBob (Oct 11, 2008)

SugarPlum said:


> Hi, TreeBob. Firstly I would like to mention that above, i said I was fine with staying in my account because you told me that you don't allow me to delete my account etc.
> 
> I also said I wish I would have READ the disclaimer. I never said you didn't have one. So I was actually taking responsibility.
> 
> ...


We have a policy on the forum of not deleting threads. Sorry

EDIT: I really think it is a good idea if you read the rules carefully. Here is the rule where it says we don't delete threads.



> 10. Editing/Deleting Posts and Threads
> You can't edit post after 24 hours of posting, and you can never delete posts. This is to help keep the flow of conversation from getting derailed. You can't delete threads, and threads will not be deleted ( by admins or mods) except under extreme circumstances. This is a public forum, so please use discretion when making posts and starting threads.


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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

@TreeBob , Okie dokie. Thanks anyway.


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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

alittlebear said:


> Aww! Type it back up.  I want to hear about how all of you were in high school.


Ehhh... it was soooo long. I don't even know how to begin it again lol. It's fine. Tired of yappin about myself anyway. LOVED hearing about YOUR's, Oswin's, shinynotshiny's, Living dead's and a new friend- Barakiel's experiences though! 

And thanks @shinynotshiny . I am )


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