# Which personality type is the most annoying for you and why?



## DoNotKnown (Jul 21, 2019)

Which personality type is the most annoying for you and why? Or maybe there isn't a type you think is annoying?


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## Dr Whoresy (Nov 7, 2018)

Probably ENFP for many 

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## Asmodaeus (Feb 15, 2015)

ESFJ. There's simply no room for mutual understanding on a deeper level.


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## Dr Whoresy (Nov 7, 2018)

Asmodaeus said:


> ESFJ. There's simply no room for mutual understanding on a deeper level.


Do you think NFs would feel similar with an ESFJ? My best friend is one and while I love her to death and would do anything for her, I don't really feel like I know "her" as well as I get to know INFJs I've known for way shorter. It's hard to explain.

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## Asmodaeus (Feb 15, 2015)

DrEquine said:


> Do you think NFs would feel similar with an ESFJ? My best friend is one and while I love her to death and would do anything for her, I don't really feel like I know "her" as well as I get to know INFJs I've known for way shorter. It's hard to explain.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


I value ESFJs as reliable, hardworking and responsible individuals. However, I’ve never felt fully understood by them. For instance, when I was in college, I dated an ESFJ gal and she was splendid, caring, supportive and beautiful. She just couldn’t care less about what I had to say about politics, philosophy, science, economics, history or mysticism. On the other hand, I also have some ESFJ relatives and it seems we’re from different planets. I respect ESFJs but IMHO I have come to regard them as kind of shallow and too traditional for my taste (considering I often enjoy challenging conventional wisdom and groupthink). In contrast, they prolly think I’m cold, individualistic or outright weird. I believe at least some NFs might share a similar viewpoint.


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## Wellington (Sep 9, 2015)

Asmodaeus said:


> ESFJ. There's simply no room for mutual understanding on a deeper level.


I second this. Not yet met an ESFJ who hasn't bugged me on some level.


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## Dr Whoresy (Nov 7, 2018)

Asmodaeus said:


> I value ESFJs as reliable, hardworking and responsible individuals. However, I’ve never felt fully understood by them. For instance, when I was in college, I dated an ESFJ gal and she was splendid, caring, supportive and beautiful. She just couldn’t care less about what I had to say about politics, philosophy, science, economics, history or mysticism. On the other hand, I also have some ESFJ relatives and it seems we’re from different planets. I respect ESFJs but IMHO I have come to regard them as kind of shallow and too traditional for my taste (considering I often enjoy challenging conventional wisdom and groupthink). In contrast, they prolly think I’m cold, individualistic or outright weird. I believe at least some NFs might share a similar viewpoint.


My best friend is very hardworking, fairly responsible, and occasionally flaky with stuff she tells me she'll do. I feel pretty understood by here, but I don't understand her. I don't really know her. it's such a hard thing to explain...we're just best friends and were from the day we started talking. She's very traditional but she also thinks I'm weird lol


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## FranklTheTankl (Jan 5, 2018)

I would say ESFJs are the most annoying type when unhealthy.

I´ve met a lot of ESFJs in my life, and I can say that, when unhealthy, they can be the most selfish, shallow, annoying people. There were 3 (unhealthy) ESFJ girls in my school when I was in high school and I think what made them so unlikable was that they pretended to be friendly and caring, but the only thing they cared about was selling that same image of themselves, when in reality they were mean and selfish. I would always analyze them and immediately think: "Fake".

On the other side, one of my best friends in high school was an ESFJ. Also I had a co-worker who also was an ESFJ, both healthy. There wasn´t a day that I was with them in which I didn´t laugh until I cried (They have Ne as well, which contributed in us making all kinds of jokes and laughing all the time). 
Also, when having social issues I would always ask them for help (Fe contrast); they were both so good with people that I admired and sometimes envied them. They would also show genuine interest in helping me and supporting me whenever I had a problem and help me integrate to new social groups.

I agree with Asmodaeous; in terms of talking serious and interesting stuff, they suck, you just can´t have a deep conversation with them. They can also be really judgmental when you don´t do things considered "correct" and they can play the "moral authority" role, which is both boring and annoying.

Despite that, ESFJs can be great people.


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## APBReloaded (Mar 8, 2019)

I don't have enough MBTI knowledge to know how to describe what I want as accurately, but I never do good with people who are cold at first. It just doesn't compute or work with me. I know people have been hurt and go through bad crap. We all do. I still see no reason to act all guarded and distant like you couldn't care less about anybody but yourself. I've been to Hell and back many times, yet I'm still warm with people... yet I no longer have the patience to work through cold exteriors. If you're icy to the touch, I'm going to go off and find someone warmer.

Oh, and for the record, people who dislike someone for petty reasons. Find a real reason to dislike someone, like health or life threatening reasons, not because they like something different than you. What a bunch of BS.


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## Shrodingers drink (Nov 30, 2018)

ISTJ sister and mother in law for the win.


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## MustBeAMistake (Jul 30, 2019)

APBReloaded said:


> I don't have enough MBTI knowledge to know how to describe what I want as accurately, but I never do good with people who are cold at first. It just doesn't compute or work with me. I know people have been hurt and go through bad crap. We all do. I still see no reason to act all guarded and distant like you couldn't care less about anybody but yourself. I've been to Hell and back many times, yet I'm still warm with people... yet I no longer have the patience to work through cold exteriors. If you're icy to the touch, I'm going to go off and find someone warmer.


Has it ever actually dawned on you that that's simply some people's personalities and it has absolutely no bearing on any past traumatic experience? Some people are just introverts-they're not acting guarded or distant, they're just like that in general. Not everyone has to be an obnoxiously loud extrovert like you.


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## APBReloaded (Mar 8, 2019)

MustBeAMistake said:


> Has it ever actually dawned on you that that's simply some people's personalities and it has absolutely no bearing on any past traumatic experience? Some people are just introverts-they're not acting guarded or distant, they're just like that in general. Not everyone has to be an obnoxiously loud extrovert like you.


And not everyone has to make people walk on eggshells just to get to know them. Get at me, Holmes!

On the other hand, the ones in anime are cute. Kuuderes, they call them. But I was referencing primarily tsunderes. Just say what you think and feel outright!


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## Anunnaki Spirit (Mar 23, 2018)

Much to my own dismay I can't ignore it anymore and getting to where I am annoyed with others of my own type that being other NFs as some are complete SJWs.


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## MustBeAMistake (Jul 30, 2019)

APBReloaded said:


> And not everyone has to make people walk on eggshells just to get to know them. Get at me, Holmes!


What does this even have to do with what we were discussing?


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## APBReloaded (Mar 8, 2019)

MustBeAMistake said:


> What does this even have to do with what we were discussing?


Like I was saying, cold and distant types don't match my vibe.

Just noticed your post count. So of all the people you could have responded to, I was the pick? Groovy.


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## IraR (Nov 27, 2011)

Pardon me for writing the following (I need to soften the blow a bit). I know the following is only about the extreme ones. And I know that the extreme ones would never linger in an inquisitive website like personality café.

I can't stand xSFP. The extreme ones are unbearable. Nothing about them resonates with me and they have no value to me. ESFPs are stupid sensitive lazy people who are loud, the ISFPs are stupid sensitive lazy people who cower. They are invisible to me and I am invisible to them (of course, to them I am a demanding snobbish bossy b***h). I block them from my life, avoid them anyway I can. I once had to work with an ISFP and considered it a 'punishment' from God (or at least the universe wanted to teach me about the other side of the world where knowledge, reason, and hard work don't exist).


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## FishOni (Mar 3, 2016)

Depends on the person  ̶E̶S̶F̶J̶


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## Kdm4468 (Mar 18, 2019)

Almost any NF annoys me... and I married one 🏼


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## Aridela (Mar 14, 2015)

It really depends on the person. 

But there's a pattern with XSFXs, especially ESFX women. 

I tend to have more issues with women than I have with men on average, because I deviate so much from the way an average woman should behave. Some men mind it too, but they're not so openly hostile about it.


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## Whippit (Jun 15, 2012)

Not all, but it takes a pretty exceptional ESTP to not annoy me.


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## contradictionary (Apr 1, 2018)

koolcat1101 said:


> I don't really love ENFJs they are similar to me but at the same time, I find them kinda annoying sometimes. Not all of them but i feel like they are a bit much.





Katie Tran said:


> INFJ - If you think INFPs have special snowflake syndrome, meet the INFJ. Also, I find inferior Se creepily depraved.
> 
> ENFJ - It's funny how I constantly see the female ones talk smack about ENFPs when they're the ones so polished up, it's disgusting.


Hmm, colour me surprised to see NF do not really love other NF, in a thread with the adverb "most" in its title. h:


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## Dr Whoresy (Nov 7, 2018)

contradictionary said:


> Hmm, colour me surprised to see NF do not really love other NF, in a thread with the adverb "most" in its title. h:


Color me surprised to see the INTJ not liking the NFs. :wink:

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## Katie Tran (Apr 8, 2017)

contradictionary said:


> Hmm, colour me surprised to see NF do not really love other NF, in a thread with the adverb "most" in its title. h:


Don't worry. Second place in my list goes to INTJs especially those on the internet.


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## Dr Whoresy (Nov 7, 2018)

Katie Tran said:


> Don't worry. Second place in my list goes to INTJs especially those on the internet.


Same. INTJs on the discord servers I'm on piss me the fuck off. Probably because they're my opposites. In fact, they're the most annoying type to me.

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## Katie Tran (Apr 8, 2017)

DrEquine said:


> Same. INTJs on the discord servers I'm on piss me the fuck off. Probably because they're my opposites. In fact, they're the most annoying type to me.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


I empathize with you.

That's not to say that I have not met wonderful INTJs on here as well. The healthy ones are most lovely and soothing to be around.


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## contradictionary (Apr 1, 2018)

DrEquine said:


> Color me surprised to see the INTJ not liking the NFs. :wink:
> 
> Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


I wonder where did you get that impression from me?

Personally, I can accept all F people as I understand they are working in an entirely different way from me. A somewhat more acceptance towards NF than SF though.


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## Dr Whoresy (Nov 7, 2018)

Katie Tran said:


> I empathize with you.
> 
> That's not to say that I have not met wonderful INTJs on here as well. The healthy ones are most lovely and soothing to be around.


The ones I've had the "joy" of meeting are people who try to make themselves seem smart by ranting on subjects that have no relevancy whatsoever, and rant to themselves in the general chat of the server. They use overly complex terms that are totally not needed (for example, referring to black plague as Yersinia Pestis...just because I know what Y. Pestis is doesn't mean other people will so why not just say black plague...unless you want to seem like a prick with superior intellect.

They claim they've mastered a subject and when I call them out on their bullshit by saying that only a fool thinks they're a master, they tried some snarky bullshit comeback. They just act like fucking pricks and I have every single one in my main discord server blocked except one because they're all fucking annoying.

I pretty much call them out as soon as possible everytime to just get them to shut the fuck up.


contradictionary said:


> I wonder where did you get that impression from me?
> 
> Personally, I can accept all F people as I understand they are working in an entirely different way from me. A somewhat more acceptance towards NF than SF though.


I'm an SF 

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## Katie Tran (Apr 8, 2017)

DrEquine said:


> The ones I've had the "joy" of meeting are people who try to make themselves seem smart by ranting on subjects that have no relevancy whatsoever, and rant to themselves in the general chat of the server.


Lol yes. Exactly.
And it's even more eyeroll inducing when they bring that shit on to the ENFP sub to talk bad about some ENFP chick who burned them disguising it as looking for "advice."


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## Dr Whoresy (Nov 7, 2018)

Katie Tran said:


> Lol yes. Exactly.
> And it's even more eyeroll inducing when they bring that shit on to the ENFP sub to talk bad about some ENFP chick who burned them disguising it as looking for "advice."


Holy fuck, I had one go in the server chat and ask for advice then get mad at people for asking relevant questions. Then they tried to quantify a relationship and I laughed at them saying that anyone who tries to quantify their relationship is bound to make it fail.

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## contradictionary (Apr 1, 2018)

DrEquine said:


> The ones I've had the "joy" of meeting are people who try to make themselves seem smart by ranting on subjects that have no relevancy whatsoever, and rant to themselves in the general chat of the server. They use overly complex terms that are totally not needed (for example, referring to black plague as Yersinia Pestis...just because I know what Y. Pestis is doesn't mean other people will so why not just say black plague...unless you want to seem like a prick with superior intellect.
> 
> They claim they've mastered a subject and when I call them out on their bullshit by saying that only a fool thinks they're a master, they tried some snarky bullshit comeback. They just act like fucking pricks and I have every single one in my main discord server blocked except one because they're all fucking annoying.
> 
> I pretty much call them out as soon as possible everytime to just get them to shut the fuck up.


You'd need to learn to accept that many if not most NTs (not just one type) are like that, especially the younger ones. They want to "flex" their mind, talking in "sophisticated" terms and languages, exploring the "unnecessary" and the "irrelevant" into the frontier of "absurds".

Going to be very irritating for most non-NTs, i believe. Unless you have thick skin and ear and unlimited amount of patience I would suggest you to avoid that kind of conggregation.



DrEquine said:


> I'm an SF


It's great, nothing wrong with that. It's just means we would need to exert more effort in order to understand each other, if we are _so willing_.


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## Dr Whoresy (Nov 7, 2018)

contradictionary said:


> You'd need to learn to accept that many if not most NTs (not just one type) are like that, especially the younger ones. They want to "flex" their mind, talking in "sophisticated" terms and languages, exploring the "unnecessary" and the "irrelevant".
> 
> Going to be very irritating for most non-NTs, i believe. Unless you have thick skin and ear and unlimited amount of patience I would suggest you to avoid that kind of conggregation.
> 
> ...


I definitely don't have the patience for idiots trying to show how smart they are. They're not sophisticated. Especially when I don't understand half the stuff they're saying because it's all theoretical philosophical garbage, and it's a waste of time talking about stuff that is unlikely to ever happen, at least to me

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## Crowbo (Jul 9, 2017)

brightflashes said:


> Fe types are most difficult for me to understand and since I value understanding, I tend to have the most frustration with these types. I am consciously working on this at the moment, though.
> 
> There's something about young INTPs that just rub me the wrong way. It's hard to put my finger on it without just throwing out generalities and pissing off a bunch of INTPs in the process. I have no problem with INTPs - my partner is an INTP - I just think that an unseasoned INTP is more irritating than an unseasoned any-other-type.


Interesting. I could see how immature Fe could be bothersome. What do you think of tertiary Fe users, EXTPs?


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## contradictionary (Apr 1, 2018)

DrEquine said:


> I definitely don't have the patience for idiots trying to show how smart they are. They're not sophisticated. Especially when I don't understand half the stuff they're saying because it's all theoretical philosophical garbage, and it's a waste of time talking about stuff that is unlikely to ever happen, at least to me


Try to re-read your statement above, mate, really really slowly. And smile 

*Willing* is the keyword for the understanding.


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## Dr Whoresy (Nov 7, 2018)

contradictionary said:


> Try to re-read your statement above, mate, really really slowly. And smile
> 
> *Willing* is the keyword for the understanding.


I figured I made a fool of myself there. I sound pretentious, but at least for me, I don't understand why they talk about stuff with no relevance to the subject lol

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## L P (May 30, 2017)

I think some types are way more annoying over the internet than IRL. IRL INTJs I'm fine with, actually get along real good with them once I do, but idk internet makes them seem arrogant like they always get accused of? I guess in real life you can see way more sides to them outside of the "I'm gonna shut down everything you are saying" side they have.

IRL ENTP is the type that likes to annoy me the most, so I guess I'd say they are the type that annoys me the most. ESTP second place there.

Share something in confidence with ENTP and later it will become a sore spot they can pick at. 

I notice I have a harder time with Ti types in general. But INTPs have a real nice sense of humor so that smoothes things over, and ISTP is super duper chill espesh type 9w8, easy friends.

I don't have such a huge issue with the Ni/Ne difference. I think it's just sometimes Ni can be _so_ sure that my Ne naturally is skeptical of how someone can be so sure of this one thing at the exclusion of every other possibility. That's where that shut you down side comes in, where they can be so sure and shut down a possible explanation for something else even though you can see the validity of the something else, but I guess they can see the low probability of it, so it's just a natural clash. But I haven't run into this problem so much as to be annoyed by it, just skeptical of that level of certainty, as it's not natural for me to be that certain of most things, most absolute statements make me cringe a little, because so many exceptions come to mind the instant one is made. I guess anytime someone has zero doubt my skeptical sense gets alarmed naturally.

Si/Se difference, especially with an INTJ friend of mine, i notice it but it seems like he's trying to push me to be better, it's just pushing = discomfort which is the bane of Si. At least INTJ doesn't push so hard, ESTP sees you have low Se and just turns their nose up at you, unless you guys are friends, that gets old real fast, or the push you to the point where they can't even realize you're done. Don't Se me bro, you will not get results.

ESFJ is pleasant enough to not become so annoying, but I can definitely see the reason for them annoying some folks.
My displeasure with Fe mostly comes from people who don't know me, if you do not know me, don't Fe me bro. It feels like: "I'm gonna be super bubbly and nice to this complete stranger and expect them to not be suspicious of me at all." what?

I have a harder time with certain enneagram types though than MBTI. Type 7w8 would be the most trolly annoying of almost any MBTI type for me. Next would be 8w7 ENTJ, I don't understand the idea of someone trying to crush your will by imposing theirs on you as if your reason for being alive was to fulfill their will, that mentality will never make sense to me, people like that can jump off a bridge.. Type 9 ISFJ can get a different kind of annoying, because idk they are nice and easy going but expect you to pick up on things, yea the passive aggressiveness I guess I'd call it, I hate to get on people's passive aggressiveness because I understand the motive behind the behavior but sometimes it can be too much and it's better to just blow up and say the thing already.


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## Introvertia (Feb 6, 2016)

Two of the most annoying types present in my life are my sister (ENFP) and my best friend's boyfriend, (INTJ). Sister is a spoiled princess with demands in every direction, considering themselves above others, my friend's boyfriend is this supposedly witty, logical shithead that nobody gets a long with so he spends all his time on computer playing shitty games and I have to listen to his girlfriend complaining about it.


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## Judson Joist (Oct 25, 2013)

Katie Tran said:


> I find inferior Se creepily depraved.


You have no idea.












Introvertia said:


> he spends all his time on computer playing shitty games


Does he like S.T.A.L.K.E.R., Borderlands, or other dystopian wasteland-themed FPS games? If so, tell him to check out Judson Gaiden on Do0mTo0b (shameless plug).


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## Introvertia (Feb 6, 2016)

Judson Joist said:


> You have no idea.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No, I said shitty games.


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## Coonsy (Dec 22, 2010)

SFs in general. The combination of S and F just seems to create a perfect storm.

I've had a couple of ISFx friends, even dated one, but every time I've gotten remotely close to a SF, it has eventually gone up in spectacular flames - be it just friends or more, if the relationship became close, eventually it exploded.

ISTJs I can get along with casually, but annoy the s^!& out of me if we spend too much time together. 

I don't know that I've ever been more than just casual friends with ESxx of any variety, guessing there's just an overall clash of personality where there's never an attraction to engage more.


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## incision (May 23, 2010)

ESFJs and I are like oil and water. They usually begin with a lot of compliments, admiration and respect which turns into dislike because I can't be manipulated or controlled.


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## Shrodingers drink (Nov 30, 2018)

DrEquine said:


> The ones I've had the "joy" of meeting are people who try to make themselves seem smart by ranting on subjects that have no relevancy whatsoever, and rant to themselves in the general chat of the server. They use overly complex terms that are totally not needed (for example, referring to black plague as Yersinia Pestis...just because I know what Y. Pestis is doesn't mean other people will so why not just say black plague...unless you want to seem like a prick with superior intellect.
> 
> They claim they've mastered a subject and when I call them out on their bullshit by saying that only a fool thinks they're a master, they tried some snarky bullshit comeback. They just act like fucking pricks and I have every single one in my main discord server blocked except one because they're all fucking annoying.
> 
> ...


Technically referring to Y. Pestis is better as it encompasses both bubonic Plague (the Black Death) and Pneumonic plague which is the more dangerous Airborne Disease.

I mention this because ENTPs are commonly known as A. Pestis!


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## Dr Whoresy (Nov 7, 2018)

Shrodingers drink said:


> Technically referring to Y. Pestis is better as it encompasses both bubonic Plague (the Black Death) and Pneumonic plague which is the more dangerous Airborne Disease.
> 
> I mention this because ENTPs are commonly known as A. Pestis!


I think most people would understand the black plague as the plague the average person does not know there's a bubonic and pneumonic. You do make a good point though.

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## Shrodingers drink (Nov 30, 2018)

DrEquine said:


> I think most people would understand the black plague as the plague the average person does not know there's a bubonic and pneumonic. You do make a good point though.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


Nowadays you can’t mention the Black Plague without getting beaten up by some SWJ type.....

Plus everyone Knows the “Black Death” is the first African American heavy metal band.


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## stathamspeacoat (Dec 10, 2016)

I've never clashed with anyone like I have with the 2 ISFJs I've known. I'm not going to go into why because I feel like these two played off/"inspired" each other but I see similar traits in other ISFJs and I just moonwalk away.


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## FueledByEvil (Aug 6, 2015)

I get more annoyed with myself then anyone else.

So I will say ENTP.


What is it about me that annoys me? 
Something new all the time really.
I try and rectify it and move on. 

Sometimes it works, other times I just make it worse. 
In all instances it is bloody annoying. 


The one hope I hold out for myself is that I so enjoy 
solving problems and trying to learn about myself that 
it makes these annoyances actually fun sometimes. 

Then it becomes more of being annoyed that I may have put others out
due to my behavior while I fix(?) myself.

Probably would be a non issue if I didnt have a family I truly care
for. Alas, I have surrounded myself with dependents and people 
I love and who love me.


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## Elistra (Apr 6, 2013)

APBReloaded said:


> And not everyone has to make people walk on eggshells just to get to know them. Get at me, Holmes!


*notes the poster identifies as ENFP*

Solid tertiary Te, there. 

10/10


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## APBReloaded (Mar 8, 2019)

Elistra said:


> *notes the poster identifies as ENFP*
> 
> Solid tertiary Te, there.
> 
> 10/10


I suppose I said something that impressed you! I forget the context, I posted this weeks ago.

I had an experience with an INFP recently where there was a misunderstanding and shortly after it, she just dipped. She initiated too, seemed interested, so it frustrates me how it all ended so quickly. So yeah, eggshells. People get one thing wrong and just ghost on you without even caring what happened before.


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## theblackspirits (Oct 12, 2019)

All of them annoy me equally.


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## brightflashes (Oct 27, 2015)

The Headless Horse said:


> I think most people would understand the black plague as the plague the average person does not know there's a bubonic and pneumonic. You do make a good point though.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


 @Shrodingers drink

And also the Septicemic. That's the worst strain of them all. Do not even get me started on anything having to do with plague. See avatar. lol


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## Meliodas (Nov 16, 2016)

INFPs annoy me and the feeling is mutual.

I find INFPs to be haughty, selfish, and mean-spirited, lacking _joie de vivre_. They are moral perfectionists, quick to judge you for the slightest transgression. Worse, they are often hypocrites at heart and feel above applying the high standards they hold for others to themselves.

INFPs also can't cope with an alternative to their point of view, and start lobbying personal insults at anyone who disagrees with them. This makes it impossible to discuss intellectually complex subjects with them. Most SJWs seem to identify as INFP or at least exhibit similar neuroses.

If previous posts are any indication, it seems that this is a relatively pervasive view among ENTPs.


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## Shrodingers drink (Nov 30, 2018)

brightflashes said:


> @Shrodingers drink
> 
> And also the Septicemic. That's the worst strain of them all. Do not even get me started on anything having to do with plague. See avatar. lol


There is no such thing as Septicemic plague, that is merely a pathology of infection. 
The key difference between Bubonic and Pneumonic is the mode of transmission.
Bubonic is a zoonosis, transmitted from non human(fleas) to human. Bubonic is spread human to human via airborne droplets. 
Something with airborne spread and 100% mortality = Seriously bad.


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## brightflashes (Oct 27, 2015)

Shrodingers drink said:


> There is no such thing as Septicemic plague, that is merely a pathology of infection.
> The key difference between Bubonic and Pneumonic is the mode of transmission.
> Bubonic is a zoonosis, transmitted from non human(fleas) to human. Bubonic is spread human to human via airborne droplets.
> Something with airborne spread and 100% mortality = Seriously bad.


I have studied Y Pestis extensively and the septicemic version while, yes, is a symptom, can be spread through the infection itself. If you would like to continue to argue, that's fine. But I know what I'm talking about. The infection itself of Y. Pestis can be spread from the infection site to another human being by making contact with their blood or other bodily fluids.

Septicemic and Bubonic plague are spread in the exact same way only one expresses itself as an infection first and the other expresses itself as buboes. If you say that septicemic plague can't exist because it's a byproduct of infection, that's like saying that bubonic plague doesn't exist because the buboes are a byproduct of infection. The way the human body reacts to the Y. Pestis bacteria is where the descriptor comes into play, not Y. Pestis itself. I mean, by that logic, Pneumonic plague doesn't exist either because it's still Y. Pestis just infecting the lungs.

Pneumonic doesn't carry a 100% mortality, though. It's more about 30%. In Madagascar, recent cases have shown a resistance to antibiotic treatment and the mortality rate at that point is 30%. Now, if you mean untreated, the mortality rate is 100%, that might be a bit more accurate. But some individuals can get it and actually live through it.

Edit to add: A few Links explaining that Septicemic Plague does, in fact, exist:https://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=141316#septicemic
https://www.cdc.gov/plague/faq/index.html#different

Edit to add 2: On Mortality rates:

Infection in all forms can be fatal unless treated immediately with antibiotics, such as streptomycin. Mortality rates for treated individuals range from 1 percent to 15 percent for bubonic plague to 40 percent for septicemic plague. In untreated victims, the rates rise to about 50 percent for bubonic and 100 percent for septicemic. The mortality rate for untreated pneumonic plague is 100 percent; death occurs within 24 hours.

source: https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/rxforsurvival/series/diseases/plague.html


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## hornpipe2 (Nov 3, 2015)

Shrodingers drink said:


> There is no such thing as Septicemic plague, that is merely a pathology of infection.
> The key difference between Bubonic and Pneumonic is the mode of transmission.
> Bubonic is a zoonosis, transmitted from non human(fleas) to human. Bubonic is spread human to human via airborne droplets.
> Something with airborne spread and 100% mortality = Seriously bad.


lol you should probably back off here, she's the resident Plague Expert and you will not hear the end of it


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## Shrodingers drink (Nov 30, 2018)

brightflashes said:


> I have studied Y Pestis extensively and the septicemic version while, yes, is a symptom, can be spread through the infection itself. If you would like to continue to argue, that's fine. But I know what I'm talking about. The infection itself of Y. Pestis can be spread from the infection site to another human being by making contact with their blood or other bodily fluids.
> 
> Septicemic and Bubonic plague are spread in the exact same way only one expresses itself as an infection first and the other expresses itself as buboes. If you say that septicemic plague can't exist because it's a byproduct of infection, that's like saying that bubonic plague doesn't exist because the buboes are a byproduct of infection. The way the human body reacts to the Y. Pestis bacteria is where the descriptor comes into play, not Y. Pestis itself. I mean, by that logic, Pneumonic plague doesn't exist either because it's still Y. Pestis just infecting the lungs.
> 
> ...


Obviously I’m referring to death rates in historic events, not the current antibiotic age. Being a microbiologist who studied expression of pathogenic factors in N. meningitidis, I tend to view the definition through the lens of transmission mode since it historically had a profound impact on the course of the epidemic. Y.pestis is quite unusual for high having infectivity and pathogenicity by two different means.


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## Shrodingers drink (Nov 30, 2018)

hornpipe2 said:


> lol you should probably back off here, she's the resident Plague Expert and you will not hear the end of it



I got to play with group b meningococcal before there was a vaccine, so I get to critique


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## brightflashes (Oct 27, 2015)

Shrodingers drink said:


> Obviously I’m referring to death rates in historic events, not the current antibiotic age. Being a microbiologist who studied expression of pathogenic factors in N. meningitidis, I tend to view the definition through the lens of transmission mode since it historically had a profound impact on the course of the epidemic. Y.pestis is quite unusual for high having infectivity and pathogenicity by two different means.


Very interesting. My father was a microbiologist before he passed. He studied toxicology. As I said before, or at least meant to hint at ... I don't really want to get into a silly argument about this. However, I'd be more than interested in having a conversation with you (privately, of course) about your knowledge. I'm in the field of Depth Psychology, so I'm terribly outmatched in academic knowledge, but I do know quite a bit from private study.


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## VinnieBob (Mar 24, 2014)

ISTJ 
The ones I’ve met see everything as black or white
:frustrating:


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## Curlijessi (Aug 26, 2019)

I love how this post was in the NT forum and other types are answering who are not NT (sarcasm). 
Im INTP, and I agree with the majority SJ types are annoying, sepecially ISFJ. Also, ISFP and ESFP. However, there are exceptions. My entire family meets these descriptions and I do get along with them, only because there is unconditional love first. They still annoy me if Im around them long enough individually. As a group, we all get along better.
My mom is ISFP (she gets way too emotional). My sister is ENFP (she is super bossy and also tortured me growing up. I can handle her no longer than 3 days) my dad is ISFJ but hes the best, most healthy example of one. We get along great because we have similar interests. My brother is ISTP. I think I get along with him pretty good but were not the closest because we both don't initiate, we dont see each other as much and we dont talk on the phone much, but he doesnt annoy me.
I have met other ISFJs and they are passive agressive, very cowardly, and their style of communication makes me crazy. They talk around the point and never get to it, or they small talk me to death. My dad is nothing like that, but he fits the description of ISFJ and test confirmed that.


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## Six (Oct 14, 2019)

ESTJ - I don't mind them when they're implementing what I tell them but working for them if you want to do anything properly that doesn't conform to what they already know you have to do it without them realising.

They've a nauseating need for society to vet everything for them before they think it's something they should respect.


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## earth2mondo (Nov 9, 2019)

I really feel like feelers come off as retarded. But I know that not to be the case


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