# Apprenticeships,, on-the-job training or a degree?



## Tad Cooper (Apr 10, 2010)

Hi all.
Basically I'm wondering if University is really for me. I'm going into my second year with a 2:1 in Film Studies so far, but I really don't know if I want to go back or if I have alternatives.

*Background:*
I had no idea what I wanted to do at university from about halfway through college. I thought about a range of jobs (journalist, lawyer, mechanic/technician, plumber/builder, vet/nurse, psychologist, editor etc) but none of them stuck. 
I wasn't sure about going into university, but then my granddad passed away and he left me money to go and study because he wanted me to get a good job. My mum and sisters encouraged me to go, as I do fairly well academically and got good grades in my GCSEs and A Levels.
I applied to take psychology, then switched during my gap year to conservation and then to publishing and finally to film. I can't change course again (the fees in the UK shoot up next year and I'd have no idea what to take anyway).

*Now*:
I've been diagnosed with anorexia (mentioned on here) and have the 'side effects' of minor OCD and depression. I'm seeing a therapist (secondary level care, so more specialised) and am currently look for a job for the summer.
My therapist asked me if I planned on going back and seemed slightly concerned I thought I would (I think because it could affect the treatment). When she talked to me I found I didn't really feel enthusiastic about returning to the education system (I've never found it fun) and she dug up a few ideas about how I felt (that I'd like a job, to emigrate to the US/Canada/Australia and live there).

*Me:*
I'm now trying to look at the alternative to returning, but feel a bit lost. 
*Pros* of university?


A degree looks good on a CV
Living away from home again (which enjoyed)
Possibly meeting new people/making new friends
I'll have finished what I started
I'll make my family happy/proud if I succeed
Security for the next two years
*Cons* of university?

No real motivation to continue as I find education quite boring
I was told most degrees are useless for many jobs and that work experience/networking was more important
It might affect my recovery from anorexia/depression (but this isn't certain as there are clinics there)
It costs ALOT each year (I already have the start of a student loan debt, which should build to around £21K for the whole 3 years)
I don't know if I'm on the right course or what the benefits of my degree really are in relation to work.
*Pros* of Apprenticeships/training?

Save alot of money
It may lead to practical skills which will be highly valued abroad (making emigration easier)
I've never tried jobs like that, but find the idea interesting and feel timidly enthusiastic at the idea
Earning money while I train
Meeting new people and having new experiences
Feeling more independent
Possibly making me happier/finding my true calling
May help me travel (i.e. working on a ship)
*Cons* of A/T?

Risky, especially in the UK economy of today (at least I think it is, I have no idea)
I would probably have to stay at home unless I can house-share with someone (no idea who or where to go or if that's a safe idea)
Lack of a degree to go on my CV
Finding out that the people in the areas of interest i.e. mechanic/plumber are not the sort of people I get on with.
Being responsible for paying rent and for my own security (although this does allow freedom if I'm not at home)
The costs of living away from home may be too much without a student loan
I'd have a university debt (much smaller, but still a few 1000) and no degree

Now, I can also try to take a year out, travel/work abroad and then come back to finish my degree, but by then the fees may be huge and I don't know how realistic the idea is...

I'd love some thoughts, opinions and advice on this.


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## dann (Feb 11, 2012)

So what kind of profession/occupation are you considering?


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## Tad Cooper (Apr 10, 2010)

dann said:


> So what kind of profession/occupation are you considering?


I have no idea >_< I'd like to be able to move abroad, so any job that lets me do that.
I'm also interested in health and fitness, but am unsure if personal training or anything like that is needed abroad and how to get into it. I'm interested in mechanics, but don't drive/have a license. I'm interesting in plumbing, but suck at maths. I'd like to work on a ship, but mostly men are hired and I get cold easily. I'd like to work with animals/conservation, but don't like lab work (maths). I enjoy cooking and art, but have no idea how difficult these careers are.
I'd like to work with people (not office work really, something more outdoorsy or physically demanding).


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## easyvision (Jun 11, 2012)

tine said:


> I have no idea >_< I'd like to be able to move abroad, so any job that lets me do that.
> I'm also interested in health and fitness, but am unsure if personal training or anything like that is needed abroad and how to get into it. I'm interested in mechanics, but don't drive/have a license. I'm interesting in plumbing, but suck at maths. I'd like to work on a ship, but mostly men are hired and I get cold easily. I'd like to work with animals/conservation, but don't like lab work (maths). I enjoy cooking and art, but have no idea how difficult these careers are.
> I'd like to work with people (not office work really, something more outdoorsy or physically demanding).


its very hard to find a direction, but don't stress if you get it wrong, at least your doing something productive. I just got started in a career that I realy enjoyed at first(mainly because of the money) but now I hate it but it helped me to discover some of my strengths and weaknesses.


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## dann (Feb 11, 2012)

The first thing you should figure out is what you want to do. It's tough to figure out which path to take when you don't even know the destination right? I think every career that you'll want to pursue will have its downsides. Keep them in mind for sure when you decide, but don't let them limit you if that's something you really want to do.


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## Tad Cooper (Apr 10, 2010)

easyvision said:


> its very hard to find a direction, but don't stress if you get it wrong, at least your doing something productive. I just got started in a career that I realy enjoyed at first(mainly because of the money) but now I hate it but it helped me to discover some of my strengths and weaknesses.


Thanks! I'm basically bored with education (been in it for years and never really loved it) and would like to go out and try new things, but feel worried about how this might impact my future. Is growing up without a degree (even one as useless as film studies BA) a good idea? Would an apprenticeship or NVQ or training or work experience be as good or better when applying for other jobs or moving abroad?


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## StElmosDream (May 26, 2012)

tine said:


> I'd love some thoughts, opinions and advice on this.


I've done both; ignore the apprenticeship unless it is at an advanced level or 3-5 years long because many employers will exploit 'free labour' and may shirk their responsibility to train properly or offer true experience of the career field. As for degrees, having one helps because you can go onto masters where the real money is in careers but will struggle during a recession as most do, although graduate schemes are ideal for anyone or internships with big companies of the back of your degree experience.

Sadly BAs are very risky because they either require freelancing or luck getting hired by employers, then again I didn't find a Bsc in Computing much more use (decided to start becoming a study support worker in University)... my limited advice would be to get a dual honours that way you'll be able to market two skill sets when one offers severely restricted employment options the other may not.


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## Raain (Jan 3, 2012)

tine said:


> Thanks! I'm basically bored with education (been in it for years and never really loved it) and would like to go out and try new things, but feel worried about how this might impact my future. Is growing up without a degree (even one as useless as film studies BA) a good idea? Would an apprenticeship or NVQ or training or work experience be as good or better when applying for other jobs or moving abroad?


I would have thought that it would be just as good or more likely even better to have a vocation, NVQ actual experience working in a work environment than earning a degree?

I mean if you wanted to move to america would you be more likely to get in if you had a degree in social studies or if you where an actual practising doctor or something with years of on the job experience?

and even if you did down the line actual need a degree to progress further you could always go back to university and get it or do it through the open university.





> Sugar thinks there is an “expectancy culture” out there. Young people think they can come in at a high level, bypassing all the dirtying hands stage. “They look at the young fellow who invented Facebook and think they are going to find a venture capitalist who’s going to give them 10 million quid. But he was an anonomy. The guy that invented YouTube is an anonomy. The guy who invented Amazon is an anonomy.” I think he means anomaly, except that, having given three examples, they aren’t exactly anomalies....
> 
> 
> ...Does he regret not having had a formal education, going to Oxbridge, perhaps? “I don’t think the outcome would have been any different. And I would perceive three years at university as a waste of time. I would have already made £200,000 by then. I’m a commercial person, not an academic.”
> ...


Lord Sugar: 'University is a waste of time', Apprentice interview - Telegraph

I am/was in the same position though, I was unememployed for a couple months this year, job centre kept trying to push me into the idea of an apprenticeship but I honestly don't think actually I know that I am not cut out for it, not that it's beneath me but that I actually wouldn't be capable of doing it) and neither do I really want to commit myself to something I am unsure of doing. Have a temporary job now and actually hoping I can go to University college or something if only to improve my skills, development, making proper friends and decide what to do with life.


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## Tad Cooper (Apr 10, 2010)

StElmosDream said:


> I've done both; ignore the apprenticeship unless it is at an advanced level or 3-5 years long because many employers will exploit 'free labour' and may shirk their responsibility to train properly or offer true experience of the career field. As for degrees, having one helps because you can go onto masters where the real money is in careers but will struggle during a recession as most do, although graduate schemes are ideal for anyone or internships with big companies of the back of your degree experience.
> 
> Sadly BAs are very risky because they either require freelancing or luck getting hired by employers, then again I didn't find a Bsc in Computing much more use (decided to start becoming a study support worker in University)... my limited advice would be to get a dual honours that way you'll be able to market two skill sets when one offers severely restricted employment options the other may not.


Thanks, yeah I was worried about being exploited (a lot of work experience is like that, just making coffee all day and not learning), so if I did one I'd make sure it was a good one (either paid or working towards pay). Sadly I can't change my degree again (I've changed it so much already from not being sure what to do, haha!) Thanks for the advice!



Raain said:


> I would have thought that it would be just as good or more likely even better to have a vocation, NVQ actual experience working in a work environment than earning a degree?
> 
> I mean if you wanted to move to america would you be more likely to get in if you had a degree in social studies or if you where an actual practising doctor or something with years of on the job experience?
> 
> ...


Thanks that's very helpful! Yeah, many people have covered graduates and what jobs they get and few get any in the field they studied. I was actually told in my induction to university "This degree will not get you a job, work experience is vital" which was just great having already paid for the first year.
Could I ask how old you are? I'm 20, so I'm a bit worried about running out of time with apprenticeships/jobs/training (most go from 19-24 years old). I'm not sure though...


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## StElmosDream (May 26, 2012)

tine said:


> Thanks, yeah I was worried about being exploited (a lot of work experience is like that, just making coffee all day and not learning), so if I did one I'd make sure it was a good one (either paid or working towards pay). Sadly I can't change my degree again (I've changed it so much already from not being sure what to do, haha!) Thanks for the advice!


I can relate to that only too well (did 2 years of Computing then realised psychology was a better fit but had no money to fund 'year 5'), just seems strange to me how 4 years is covered by student loans but a masters is not when Msc is needed to do much more.


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