# what is Te like in every day life?



## Ms. Aligned (Aug 26, 2021)

ENTJudgement said:


> I heard all Te doms play this song in their heads whilst driving.


Lol! I play... 








shameless said:


> Ok but what if I am chilling in the slow lane
> 
> Are you the crazies railing me in the non passing lane?


Yes, but only because all the "safe" people have taken over the fast lane as the "safe" lane since it has less merging.


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## ENTJudgement (Oct 6, 2013)

Ms. Aligned said:


> Lol! I play...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Imagine being so incompetent at driving you think going 100km/h on the motorway is the only way to be "safe" kekw.


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## Ms. Aligned (Aug 26, 2021)

ENTJudgement said:


> Imagine being so incompetent at driving you think going 100km/h on the motorway is the only way to be "safe" kekw.


Lol, as I have Te in my second, I usually sit back and imagine what Moses would have felt like parting the seas. Lol!


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## ENTJudgement (Oct 6, 2013)

Ms. Aligned said:


> Lol, as I have Te in my second, I usually sit back and imagine what Moses would have felt like parting the seas. Lol!


I need Moses as my co driver ASAP, part them fools so I can get through!

Moses: Imagine being replaced by some blue and red lights and a siren #modernWorld.


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## Ms. Aligned (Aug 26, 2021)

ENTJudgement said:


> I need Moses as my co driver ASAP, part them fools so I can get through!
> 
> Moses: Imagine being replaced by some blue and red lights and a siren #modernWorld.


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

I used to drive like you guys in my 20s. I have been pretty tame or chill though the last decade

It is interesting to have this revealed. I always wondered who were the impatient peeps driving like that


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## ENTJudgement (Oct 6, 2013)

shameless said:


> I used to drive like you guys in my 20s. I have been pretty tame or chill though the last decade
> 
> It is interesting to have this revealed. I always wondered who were the impatient peeps driving like that


Ooooooo does that mean I can go all out if we're driving to mountainBlading and I see winding roads?


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

ENTJudgement said:


> Ooooooo does that mean I can go all out if we're driving to mountainBlading and I see winding roads?


Are you crazy like my sister and drive in blindspot on a sharp turn in the lane of oncoming traffic?


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## Ms. Aligned (Aug 26, 2021)

I will say this though. Te has the worst time aging. When I used to work in Ophthalmogogy, I used to see old couples all the time. Old single people too. Old Te is sad because if they haven't made friend's, or even if they do, it's going to be lonely. 

"I'd like you to do this." "I'd like you to have a seat while I check you in, sir." "Do you even know who I am?!?!" "No..., but if you'd like to take a seat...I might figure that out?"


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## Ms. Aligned (Aug 26, 2021)

shameless said:


> Are you crazy like my sister and drive in blindspot on a sharp turn in the lane of oncoming traffic?


Lol! I blared that on winding roads.


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

Ms. Aligned said:


> I will say this though. Te has the worst time aging. When I used to work in Ophthalmogogy, I used to see old couples all the time. Old single people too. Old Te is sad because if they haven't made friend's, or even if they do, it's going to be lonely.
> 
> "I'd like you to do this." "I'd like you to have a seat while I check you in, sir." "Do you even know who I am?!?!" "No..., but if you'd like to take a seat...I might figure that out?"


I would imagine every annoying ass elderly person who policed me while working is probably TJ  

Da fuck


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## ENTJudgement (Oct 6, 2013)

shameless said:


> Are you crazy like my sister and drive in blindspot on a sharp turn in the lane of oncoming traffic?


Nope, no vision = no overtake but my foot is glued to the ground as soon as I'm exiting a corner or overtaking and I like to throw the car into the corner coz I like lateral Gs.


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## ENTJudgement (Oct 6, 2013)

Ms. Aligned said:


> I will say this though. Te has the worst time aging. When I used to work in Ophthalmogogy, I used to see old couples all the time. Old single people too. Old Te is sad because if they haven't made friend's, or even if they do, it's going to be lonely.
> 
> "I'd like you to do this." "I'd like you to have a seat while I check you in, sir." "Do you even know who I am?!?!" "No..., but if you'd like to take a seat...I might figure that out?"


When I'm old I'll be chillin with the bois who I've assimilated to keep me company during my Oldje years :3


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## Ms. Aligned (Aug 26, 2021)

Are you assuming your retirement?


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## ENTJudgement (Oct 6, 2013)

Ms. Aligned said:


> Are you assuming your retirement?


An ENTJ predicts his life from birth till death.


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

You will not be standing over the poor staff interrogating them on if they ...

Turned off the lights
Locked the door
Unplugged electronics
Put away all the dishes immediately 
Folded the laundry with perfect corners
Turned down the thermostat 
Took out the garbage

Geezus Mary Sue go to bed please, why is everyones meds kicking in but yours?


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## Allostasis (Feb 2, 2021)

OrchidSugar said:


> Te is also about majority agreed upon rules, systems, hierarchies, authority, and consensus. For example when shopping. Certain people will only buy the name brand instead of the off brand items, because they see the name, they are associating the product with having been developed by an expert or leading authority.
> 
> Or things that organize us in daily life: traffic lights, stop signs, forming a line when waiting in a market—it’s all an agreed upon system. It works because the majority of the people agree to follow these practices.


No, it has nothing to do with Te


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## ENTJudgement (Oct 6, 2013)

shameless said:


> You will not be standing over the poor staff interrogating them on if they ...
> 
> Turned off the lights
> Locked the door
> ...


Spectacular display of Se + Si working together.


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## intranst (Jul 13, 2021)

shameless said:


> Are you crazy like my sister and drive in blindspot on a sharp turn in the lane of oncoming traffic?


You had me at blindspot


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

intranst said:


> You had me at blindspot


Crazy NFs


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## OrchidSugar (5 mo ago)

ENTJudgement said:


> I think Allostasis is worried he comes off as stupid when you make generalized claims like ENTJs don't dig deep and find the truth, they are dumb enough to be tricked by advertisements and brand names etc... Hence why hes constantly defending his own intelligence by saying other ENTJs are probably stupid or lazy if they're following Te the way it's description is stated.
> 
> Truth is, when a Te user is really motivated and trying, hes just going to come to the same conclusion as any other logical person but when hes just going about his day and don't care that much or hes put into a situation where he doesn't have all the facts which is all the fkin time if you're not being pompous and actually review wtf u really know for certain then Te would clearly favor asking around, checking what other people think, getting more reference points and deciding on whats probably true vs what he thinks has to be true. Te doms know that they don't know or aren't sure about something, they're not gonna convince themselves they know when they don't so they're OK with settling with as you put it, majority/consensus is probably a safer bet vs Ti doms who may not give a fk even though they don't know everything themselves.


I never read Allo's other theories on the functions. I don't think so anyway. But I sometimes think about Te research/consensus building as like, building upon the efficiencies created by others. Or basically another way to not waste time.


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## ENTJudgement (Oct 6, 2013)

Ms. Aligned said:


> I know that wasn't a great answer. Okay, let me try to put it into words. From what I've read of his posts, he doesn't seem to care much what anyone thinks. He just posts his opinion, but it's the tone in which he does so that's ridiculously Te. It's very matter of fact, but not predictable, thoughtful though, and not...really for any purpose at all. It's....self contained. Self managed, consistent?
> 
> Ridiculously Te.


Wait, if we're going by MBTI's definition of Te, what you said represents Ti, if we go by his definition, Te and Ti are the same.


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## ENTJudgement (Oct 6, 2013)

OrchidSugar said:


> I never read Allo's other theories on the functions. I don't think so anyway. But I sometimes think about Te research/consensus building as like, building upon the efficiencies created by others. Or basically another way to not waste time.


Yes, Te places importance on efficiency etc... but Te as a function does more than that so if you talk about that, it's true as long as people understand you're not saying it's only that which is probably what Allo was also getting at.


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## Rihanna (Nov 30, 2020)

mysticnumerologer said:


> I understand that Te is solution oriented, efficient, etc, etc. But almost every example I've read of Te seems to be within the context of business in one way or another. Or even education.
> 
> Now I'm wondering... How does Te work outside the realm of business/jobs/work? What is Te like when having an off day? Hanging out with friends? Engaging in interests? Watching a movie? Learning to drive a car? I would appreciate if someone could offer a more grounded interpretation of Te. Thanks!


It's pretty business _like. _It deals with the impersonal so it's not the most personal function. Even in personal life it's just _efficiency_ in all things basically. That's the goal, the shortest straight line that ticks all the needed boxes and serves the thing one wants. Fi being the what one wants and Te being the way to organize that into the world.

IDK about everyone agrees on or consensus seeking but Te utilizes, for efficiency and _as part_ of its own efficiency, the most evident framework of logic that everyone, and not just the user, can objectively deduce...or "works." It's a shortcut in ways.

Like Fe is a shortcut for Fi. With the Fe/Ti axis, it's the flip...I think intranst explained, where instead internal logic (impersonal) seeks manifest social outcomes. (personal)

I think I read somewhere in a study they measured or tracked the brain activity of the different types and noticed Te users brain activity reflected efficiency. So their processes used less energy. They found interesting patterns for each function like Ne doms had a "Christmas tree" like activity pattern which would correlate to cross contextual connection making, and Se doms have tennis hop patterns which correlates to constant states of readiness, and Ni doms had zen patterns which reflected calling upon all parts of the brain to come to predictions etc. Pretty interesting read, here is a link, but regarding Te doms it said: 

*"They are very efficient with their mental energy so that they can maintain stamina during ongoing challenges. They rely most heavily on left-brain regions for hearing, seeing, remembering, and deciding. These vital regions rely on measurable concrete information and give the E*TJ their famed evidence-based decision-making skills. These regions also allow them to generally have good hand-eye coordination, diction, and a propensity for arranging information in charts, tables, and diagrams.

E-TJs rely heavily on a section called FP01. This is located in the front-central portion of the brain by the eye socket. This region notes errors in the environment, and filters out undesirable information, including negative criticism or feedback. People with high activity here can ignore a lot of negatives because they are quick to move past it or suppress it. This is why E-TJs tend to easily critique or point out errors that they see, but they can also filter out or block negative feedback or evaluations from others and not get “riled up” by it. This region also helps them to suppress emotional responses. ESTJs tend to take life in stride and are not usually bothered by criticism, and FP01 may have a big part to play in that aspect of their personality. .... ENTJs can also filter out unnecessary data to zone in on key points."*

And for an INTJ like me *"because INTJs use Extraverted Thinking (Te) they use efficient mental energy. They show brain activity in left-brain regions for hearing, seeing, recalling, and deciding. This allows them to quickly manage measurable information to make an evidence-based decision. This also means that they are stimulated by task completion and error-correction. "*

I'd say stimulated by task completion and error correction may be a staple of Te usage. But I didn't see that for ISTJs though they are also Te secondary. Don't know why.


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## intranst (Jul 13, 2021)

Check out that INFP brain scan. We got everything you need, minus the front and back of the brain, just some weird middle part that makes us do a little dance when we think about coffee.


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## ENTJudgement (Oct 6, 2013)

Rihanna said:


> It's pretty business _like. _It deals with the impersonal so it's not the most personal function. Even in personal life it's just _efficiency_ in all things basically. That's the goal, the shortest straight line that ticks all the needed boxes and serves the thing one wants. Fi being the what one wants and Te being the way to organize that into the world.
> 
> IDK about everyone agrees on or consensus seeking but Te utilizes, for efficiency and _as part_ of its own efficiency, the most evident framework of logic that everyone, and not just the user, can objectively deduce...or "works." It's a shortcut in ways.
> 
> ...


My brain is way too efficient at most tasks that it finds the shortest path or path of least resistance within mere moments then resort to thinking about the next task while still doing the previous, then jumps to the task that hasn't even been started coz its thinkin about the task it needs to do after the 2nd task and so on. Then once there are no more tasks to think about, it starts thinking about abstract concepts and stuff I was discussing with people before, basically just Ni projecting stuff.


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## Rihanna (Nov 30, 2020)

intranst said:


> Check out that INFP brain scan. We got everything you need, minus the front and back of the brain, just some weird middle part that makes us do a little dance when we think about coffee.


So it says here INFPs have naturally lobotomized brains. Weird.


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## intranst (Jul 13, 2021)

ENTJudgement said:


> My brain is way too efficient at most tasks that it finds the shortest path or path of least resistance within mere moments then resort to thinking about the next task while still doing the previous, then jumps to the task that hasn't even been started coz its thinkin about the task it needs to do after the 2nd task and so on. Then once there are no more tasks to think about, it starts thinking about abstract concepts and stuff I was discussing with people before, basically just Ni projecting stuff.


Dude, I do this too when I’m actually getting shit done, body just automatically performing whatever while mind has already moved on.


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## Rihanna (Nov 30, 2020)

It's all that coffee. Burned the connections off. 😋 @intranst 

JK...you're saner than all of us...probably.


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## intranst (Jul 13, 2021)

I’m saner, on paper.


Rihanna said:


> It's all that coffee. Burned the connections off. 😋 @intranst
> 
> JK...you're saner than all of us...probably.


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## Rihanna (Nov 30, 2020)

On a note of the personal....perhaps Te use correlates with acts of service for a love language? Cannot confirm nor deny for anyone else, but it seems so for me. 

That would make sense. I show love by making people's lives easier via Te all the time.


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## ENTJudgement (Oct 6, 2013)

Rihanna said:


> It's all that coffee. Burned the connections off. 😋 @intranst
> 
> JK...you're saner than all of us...probably.


Hes pretty Se heavy, last time we were chatting on discord, he totally got distracted by shit that was going on around him and went to chase it like he just saw a butterfly and went 2 chase it.


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## intranst (Jul 13, 2021)

Rihanna said:


> On a note of the personal....perhaps Te use correlates with acts of service for a love language? Cannot confirm nor deny for anyone else, but it seems so for me.
> 
> That would make sense. I show love by making people's lives easier via Te all the time.


Yeah I think this is big with TJs too, and even with Te inferior I don’t have much problem with acts of service if a friend/family member needs help at all.


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## Rihanna (Nov 30, 2020)

ENTJudgement said:


> Hes pretty Se heavy, last time we were chatting on discord, he totally got distracted by shit that was going on around him and went to chase it like he just saw a butterfly and went 2 chase it.


Enjoy life. Chase the butterflies


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## ENTJudgement (Oct 6, 2013)

Rihanna said:


> On a note of the personal....perhaps Te use correlates with acts of service for a love language? Cannot confirm nor deny for anyone else, but it seems so for me.
> 
> That would make sense. I show love by making people's lives easier via Te all the time.


Couldn’t agree more, to escalate this one step above, I don’t believe or value a lot of the other languages, especially words of affirmation coz I suspect if they aren’t willing to put in the physical effort, it could be fake


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## DOGSOUP (Jan 29, 2016)

mysticnumerologer said:


> Now I'm wondering... How does Te work outside the realm of business/jobs/work? What is Te like when having an off day? Hanging out with friends? Engaging in interests? Watching a movie? Learning to drive a car? I would appreciate if someone could offer a more grounded interpretation of Te. Thanks!


ESTJ I hanged around with liked to organize games and activities, quite generous and princely behaviour but expected others to be as involved as he was. More focused on the activity itself than reading the room, but at times he became weirdly aware of people's emotional responses to him, it was actually a bit upsetting. Enjoyed when things met with his standard, and would compliment you if you did well (he would also let you know if he was displeased with you, quite honest and straightforward for sure...). He was the type of person to have an argument ready (lots of research into topics he was interested in, liked to prepare arguments in advance) but consciously avoided straight up disagreements in relaxed environments, said when he'd get started he'd probably ruin the mood for everyone, he had a little debate bro in him but practised decent self-control.


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## Warp11 (Jul 13, 2016)

The Te mind is best at that which:
is measurable.
is fact. 
is objective.
is concrete.
is provable.
Is efficient.
is black/white; on/off; true/false.
Is to be organized for a purpose/goal.
It is not concerned with feelings, so I don't really get why anyone would think Te is susceptible to media bias and propaganda.


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## maximum danger (4 mo ago)

Warp11 said:


> The Te mind is best at that which:
> is measurable.
> is fact.
> is objective.
> ...


Do you think feelings are the only way to be susceptible to media bias or propaganda?


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## Rihanna (Nov 30, 2020)

Warp11 said:


> The Te mind is best at that which:
> is measurable.
> is fact.
> is objective.
> ...


Te is about utilizing evident logic and reason. Not abstract logical sequences.

One delineation I find often made is Ti (or Fi) cares about the process not the goal/outcome and Te (or Fe) cares about the goal/outcome, but not the process.

For me the logic per say doesn't have to make total complete clear internal logical mathematical sense as long as the end goal is achieved. And I don't care about the how from a pure logical perspective as long as I can end up at the desired end point. I only care about the how on a values perspective, in am I violating any of my complexly organized personal beliefs or morals or crossing a foul near any of the intricacies _there_? No. Then let's go. If yes, how can I redesign this, with all the values content baked in as new obstacles to plan around, and _achieve_ the same outcome?

Achieving outcomes, especially more complex ones usually requires some level of logical cohesion so Ti will be utilized insomuch as it's needed for the primary goal of a specific outcome. Often enough I think I substitute any excessive Ti use with Ni which is very logical in its illogic. I just don't know where the logic came from half the time, but it's in there just in a different format.



ENTJudgement said:


> Couldn’t agree more, to escalate this one step above, I don’t believe or value a lot of the other languages, especially words of affirmation coz I suspect if they aren’t willing to put in the physical effort, it could be fake


I understand this. I like the other languages, but they've become more developed with age and experience. I enjoy puffing people up now.

I certainly remember just not "getting," words of affirmation _at all_ when I was younger. And I was always bewildered by all the girls getting played and totally enamored by boys who just ... said nice things to them... but *clearly* just wanted in their pants. They'd gush over the boy saying they loved them to me for example and in my head I'm like...."And? What does that even mean?  Da fuq."

Saying words is making you roll up into a ball totally enamored out of your brain cells? Do you even know what love is?

Now I know a lot of people don't get that type of encouragement ..... it's like a drug addiction to some. Thankfully I guess, I grew up with a lot of self esteem and a solid intuition that behavioral patterns speak louder than words. And was exposed to a lot of love that was so evident it didn't need many direct words. It's still probably my lowest love language, but I can have fun with it now. Used to be more awkward because it didn't feel like a natural way to express care or affection and I didn't wanna fake it. But - I've grown into it now a little better.


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## mysticnumerologer (3 mo ago)

Rihanna said:


> Te is about utilizing evident logic and reason. Not abstract logical sequences.
> 
> One delineation I find often made is Ti (or Fi) cares about the process not the goal/outcome and Te (or Fe) cares about the goal/outcome, but not the process.
> 
> ...


This is a great explanation! And forgive me if I'm misunderstanding anything, English isn't my first language. Would you consider quantitative research (70/100 of boys like sports, 30/100 girls like sports, so in conclusion boys prefer sports) a more Te process or Ti?


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## Warp11 (Jul 13, 2016)

maximum danger said:


> If it only appealed to feelings, it wouldn't be very effective propaganda, would it? Either way, if you want to work within that paradigm, this is something found in the extraverted thinker too: repression of feeling created it unconscious, personal, oversensitive, that runs counter to your conscious aims and can give rise to erroneous assumptions and prejudices to new information that are outside your contained formula.


If not feelings, then what would it be? Can something "appeal" to logic? 

Was this poster designed to get people to think critically about war with Japan or was it designed to elicit a particular emotional reaction to get them to support the industrialist efforts?








I mean, Uncle Sam getting bitch-slapped by a big-toothed, four-eyed (insert racial slur)? Well our righteous indignation won't stand for it. Let's get 'em! 

To your other point, you're not wrong. This is why even "thinking people" fall into the trap of fear, disgust, anger.
All of which can be mitigated by logical skepticism and a healthy dose of introspection.


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## Allostasis (Feb 2, 2021)

OrchidSugar said:


> *1. You are critiquing my analysis on the basis of what Te is not. But you're not telling me what Te is. *


I did, it was just earlier in this thread : 


> Within theories that make the most sense, it is almost the same as Ti, basically.
> 
> Descriptions saying something like "it just gets the job done, as impatiently/quickly as possible, without caring how things work as long as they produce results" are covering only a subset of people who probably are just not very bright, lazy, and/or have a short attention span since this doesn't grasp the essence.
> 
> ...


I would only add that by "dismissing things that are in the way" I meant primarily already established opinions/ways of thinking, anything that may work as a barrier between you and some object.

Object is anything that is not subject, not you. It doesn't have to be something physically observable and empirically reproducible. It can be, of course, but I would say it is more a priority for ESTJs, is them who are more likely to "organize environments" and be responsive/reactive to immediately observable things.

The key thing is that Te is just thinking + extraversion, as was noted before. There is no difference in thinking, but there is a difference in extraversion vs introversion.

Extraversion expands, it is holistic, it goes outside of self, it wants to grasp everything, it is fluid and loves change.
Introversion converges, it is atomistic/reductive, it focuses on the self, it wants to limit the exposure/influence on the subject, it is more static and is less comfortable with changes.

As such, it is Ti type who is more likely to reject inconvenient information that contradicts to its currently established theory/expectations or is just too inconvenient to fit, because it is uncomfortable. Or because they get too convinced and invested in their view. Sometimes it is easier for them to control environment and prescribe their views, instead of changing within. Or adding another layer of abstraction (or, in the worst case, obscurity) to shield/control things that would violate their views.

Te type is going to be more open ended and flexible, less committed to any specific model of understanding. Not because they don't care about understanding and just need "results", not because they don't care about coherency or integrity, no, but because understanding is always incomplete, it is always a work in progress. Commitment to something simplifies and narrows down life, but also limits you. There is always a certain distrust into over attachment to too systematic and rigid way of interpreting reality due to how limiting/flawed they frequently are and always can be improved.

Again, those different tendencies come not because there is a difference in _thinking_, but because one is introverted and the other is extraverted. And those are tendencies, rather than rules that apply all the time.

Hopefully it is more clear now, but let me know if something doesn't make sense for you.



> *3. The way you speak is too meta to be engaged with. You are asking me to explain the theory that led to my theory.* And you are accusing me of having developed my understanding based on superficial descriptions of cognitive functions. Honestly my understanding of the cognitive functions are based on lived experiences/observations and of course _very heavily_ on the research and observations of people who studied this before me. What good does any of this do:
> 
> I am not a psychologist or any type of scientist who would have had the opportunity to set up a social experiment and observe people's thoughts/cognitive processes. Therefore yes, it is _almost entirely_ based on other people's descriptions of the cognitive functions...What more can I say? Why insist on this circular line of questioning?


I don't expect anyone to have their own pet experimental group on which they can conduct tests. And this won't help anyway.
I just want people to revise their descriptions and observations, to be critical.

Without doing that, it can be like this (it might also serve as a tangible example) : 

Some can define Te as being "pragmatic" and Ti as being "theoretical". So, whenever they observe a pragmatic person, they will think that he/she is Te then. And that's just the end of it. They will never go beyond their initial criterion and will be stuck within it. Yes, they could accumulate lots of observations. They can meet people who have exactly the same view and they can make a nice and cozy echo chamber together.

If they will meet practical Ti, they might say something like "well, they just activated their shadow Te". Instead of questioning whether this pragmatic/theoretical dichotomy hypothesis actually makes sense, they just add a layer of complication, a workaround to escape the complexity of reality, which only moves you further from understanding the phenomenon as it is, in its terms, "objectively." You are conditioning phenomenon in this case (naive example of introversion), rather than it conditioning your mind (extraversion).

So, conscious extraversion is conditioning of yourself with reality, actively and consciously. Not blindly internalising what the crowed/"tribe" thinks (inferior/unconscious extraverted thinking), not exploiting efficiencies created by others (no relation to I/E, just thinking at best)



> *4. You are intuiting/assuming my meaning and putting words in my mouth.*


I am trying to understand your point of view and providing you a feedback, so that you can make yourself clear/understood in case I got it wrong.



> *4a. You assumed here that I was talking about the true, inherent essence of Te, when I was merely giving applications (as OP requested)*


I wanted to estimate the soundness of application by how well it can be traced back to its essence. I thought that the essence that I see is just another application of phenomenon. So, it is like application was based on an application.



> *4b. You assumed here that I was falling back into my comfortable delusions, when I was just trying to answer your question about how Te and Ti might be different.*


I misinterpreted then, my bad. I guess I wasn't satisfied by answer then.



> No. I don't believe that Ti is lazy and unconcerned with efficiency. I believe that Ti is not as outcome-focused. But, if the outcome is understanding/exploration of a framework, then what I maintain is that Ti would not disregard inconvenient information.


I see. This is the point of disagreement (or one of them), as is evident from what I already wrote above. 
I think outcome vs process is a false dichotomy in the end, but would like to know why you think otherwise.



> You have to understand my answers in the context of the OP, which asked for applications in everyday life. I was just trying to use my Ne to provide some possibilities. Traits and characteristics of Te do not have to be mutually exclusive with Ti in order to be considered. Nor Fe/Fi. For example, Te values logic and so does Ti. With my Fi I could value rule-following and Fe also values rule following. So I am not understanding where the breakdown in communication is coming from.


Breakdown comes from my assumption that applications of how Te is like in everyday life must be exclusive to Te. If they are not exclusive to Te, then we are not giving applications of Te. We are giving applications of something that isn't just Te.

In other words, more tangible example : 
Statement "Te drinks coffee in the morning" doesn't reveal anything about Te to us, because people of many other types may drink coffee in the morning. Application of Te must have at least something that is exclusive to Te. If such applications cannot exist, then Te, basically, cannot tangibly exist either since it never factors into existence of anything else.


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## ENTJudgement (Oct 6, 2013)

Allostasis said:


> I did, it was just earlier in this thread :
> 
> I would only add that by "dismissing things that are in the way" I meant primarily already established opinions/ways of thinking, anything that may work as a barrier between you and some object.
> 
> ...


“Subjectively, it feels like there is always a certain goal/focus at any given moment, and my thoughts are conditioned by its definition. Everything is judged as relevant or as irrelevant in relation to said goal.
If the goal is something outcome-based, then thoughts will be directed toward its optimal achievement. (if "optimality" is desirable/meaningful in its context)
If the goal is of theoretical nature, then all thoughts will be devoted to the refinement and development of understanding, patient and rigorous exploration of ideas that have any relevance to it.
Everything starts with a certain definition of the objective, and things that are in the way are dismissed/devalued. The goal is typically prioritized over anything personal. It's like you are a computer that executes programs.”

This looks to be true from a Te perspective although unsure whether you’re also saying this is exclusive to Te thinking coz this is the only practical example you’ve given with your ending sentence;

“Breakdown comes from my assumption that applications of how Te is like in everyday life must be exclusive to Te. If they are not exclusive to Te, then we are not giving applications of Te. We are giving applications of something that isn't just Te.

In other words, more tangible example : 
Statement "Te drinks coffee in the morning" doesn't reveal anything about Te to us, because people of many other types may drink coffee in the morning. Application of Te must have at least something that is exclusive to Te. If such applications cannot exist, then Te, basically, cannot tangibly exist either since it never factors into existence of anything else.”

So simply give practical examples of what’s exclusive to Te thinking and you’ve made your point. If the aforementioned example of goal prioritised above what’s personal is the practical example then checks out with the caveat that the goal itself did not come from Te, it’s a desire and thus must have come from your emotion. So can u really say it’s above what’s personal? Ur goal is personal is it not? I’d keep most of what u said and simply change it to Te is the utility which we use to achieve our goals and we like to detach ourselves from emotions when processing/computing the methods of which to achieve these goals, this translates to the outcome based, morals second generalisation, it is not false per se.

Anyway, we are just playing semantics at this point, you’re understood and I pretty much agree, I’m not a Ti user so it’s easy for me to agree with what Te is rather than what Ti is not assuming there is a difference with the 2. If there isn’t then w/e makes no real difference to me. 

In summary, if Te = Ti, only E and I changes then I’m using both Te and Ti. 
If Te =/= Ti then I can approve examples of Te but not of Ti coz not a Ti user.


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## Allostasis (Feb 2, 2021)

ENTJudgement said:


> This looks to be true from a Te perspective although unsure whether you’re also saying this is exclusive to Te thinking coz this is the only practical example you’ve given with your ending sentence;


It is somewhat exclusive because Ti isn't as "devoted" to objects of their understanding compared to their understanding of those objects, if it makes sense. I gave another example somewhere in the middle of the post.



> If the aforementioned example of goal prioritised above what’s personal is the practical example then checks out with the caveat that the goal itself did not come from Te, it’s a desire and thus must have come from your emotion.


Correct. Which is why Te lives a purposeless and empty life when all meaning in it gets intellectualized and sterilized from any feelings when unhealthy.



> So can u really say it’s above what’s personal? Ur goal is personal is it not? I’d keep most of what u said and simply change it to Te is the utility which we use to achieve our goals and we like to detach ourselves from emotions when processing/computing the methods of which to achieve these goals, this translates to t


In this context, I was describing the conscious part of the self. If consciousness is impersonal and intellectual, then unconsciousness is the opposite of it necessarily.
Te isn't just the "utility". It is meant to describe the character of consciousness, default mode of being. (which is extraversion + thinking).

It is not something that gets "activated" occasionally as "tool" on the job unless it is merely an auxiliary function. You live with it whenever you are T dom. Occasional activation indicates occasional awareness.

I don't believe that I am just playing with semantics, although, yes, it might seem too pedantic.
Ironically, my take on it is least practical compared to just going with stereotypes/some set of observations or vague general idea that is "good enough."
I do think I am understood more or less, there is nothing difficult about this actually.


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## ENTJudgement (Oct 6, 2013)

Allostasis said:


> In this context, I was describing the conscious part of the self. If consciousness is impersonal and intellectual, then unconsciousness is the opposite of it necessarily.
> Te isn't just the "utility". It is meant to describe the character of consciousness, default mode of being. (which is extraversion + thinking).
> 
> It is not something that gets "activated" occasionally as "tool" on the job unless it is merely an auxiliary function. You live with it whenever you are T dom. Occasional activation indicates occasional awareness.


Understood, thanks for your explanation, looks like it was more than semantics now.


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## OrchidSugar (5 mo ago)

Allostasis said:


> Breakdown comes from my assumption that applications of how Te is like in everyday life must be exclusive to Te. If they are not exclusive to Te, then we are not giving applications of Te. We are giving applications of something that isn't just Te.


OK thanks Allo. We have spent a great amount of time on theory. I'm wondering if we can pivot to practice. The only way for me to check my understanding of what you said would be if you would provide some tangible applications of what you see Te as and not what you see Te as not. Please could you list maybe 2-4 for me and OP's sake? 


Allostasis said:


> Introversion converges, it is atomistic/reductive


It seems like you spent the better part of our discussion reducing my analysis and stripping it away. According to your own definition of introversion and thinking, is it possible that you yourself could be an Ni/Ti user? Just wondering because some people's results change when they take the test in their early 20s. Just let me know!


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## OrchidSugar (5 mo ago)

Red Panda said:


> this is exactly what *introverted thinking* is in the original theory because introversion by definition disregards/controls the influence from the external environment
> the Ti in the MBTI that you describe, is a redefinition of the original terminology as a result of how the MBTI defines their P/J axis in combination with their theoretical model of function attitudes.
> 
> Basically their P is a mix of extraversion + irrational attitude psychological traits from Jung and their J is a mix of introversion + rational attitude, so a Jungian extravert may type themselves P in the MBTI but then they're told they have introverted judgment without a connection to the reality of how their judgment works. It's basically just a label. Basically it's not "Te" that disregards contradictory info,


I don't know what the original theory you are talking about is. (You don't need to explain it to me any further by god!) But I agree with what you say here: 


Red Panda said:


> it's the combo of T+J traits in the MBTI system [...] And the "Ti" you describe is a combo of T+P traits.


The Te doms and auxs that I am thinking of are TJs. And the Ti doms and auxs I am thinking of are TPs. So that sounds fine to me.


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## Allostasis (Feb 2, 2021)

OrchidSugar said:


> OK thanks Allo. We have spent a great amount of time on theory. I'm wondering if we can pivot to practice. The only way for me to check my understanding of what you said would be if you would provide some tangible applications of what you see Te as and not what you see Te as not. Please could you list maybe 2-4 for me and OP's sake?


Well, I think I tried. Perhaps it is not in the way that is naturally compatible with you. I can try again.
Some rough "applications" of Te :
1. Welcoming information that conflicts with your understanding. You criticize/question your understanding first and incoming information in the second order.
2. Welcoming criticism in general because it is always an opportunity to improve, the world always tries to teach you.
3. You are generally impersonal, callous, and somewhat selfless. It is easy for you to compose yourself and act unaffected by feelings, regardless of how noticeable they are for your awareness.
4. Understanding is always a work in progress, it is a dynamic process. It is easy to switch views due to this non-attachment to them.
5. You are committed to truth and aim to be as universal and holistic as possible, exploring all avenues of thought because you want to intellectualize the whole mess of the universe.
6. If Te discovers a better way to be reasonable and closer to the truth, it will immediately internalize it and will put it to work, similar to the scientific method in its non-fanatical understanding.
7. Visible confidence/self-assuredness. Not because of knowledge, but due to the positive attitude towards the world, the belief that you can always adapt to it. "Growth mindset" I guess.

If what I stated is still too theoretical, then I am not sure what "tangible" means for you exactly.



> It seems like you spent the better part of our discussion reducing my analysis and stripping it away. According to your own definition of introversion and thinking, is it possible that you yourself could be an Ni/Ti user? Just wondering because some people's results change when they take the test in their early 20s. Just let me know!


I can notice that you are frustrated, but I stripped your analysis away not because I simply like mine more. And not because it doesn't fit into my view, but due to reasons that I stated. It is nothing personal. So, no, not really. Nothing about Te was supposed to make me automatically agree with you.


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## OrchidSugar (5 mo ago)

Allostasis said:


> Well, I think I tried. Perhaps it is not in the way that is naturally compatible with you. I can try again.
> Some rough "applications" of Te :
> 1. Welcoming information that conflicts with your understanding. You criticize/question your understanding first and incoming information in the second order.
> 2. Welcoming criticism in general because it is always an opportunity to improve, the world always tries to teach you.
> ...


Good. This is a nice start. However it is still incomplete. What about any of the items you have listed here are specific to Te? They should not overlap with any other cognitive functions. Otherwise how can we be sure that it is Te? I find it interesting that you have placed the word "applications" in quotation marks. Subconsciously you know that you haven't exactly performed/delivered adequately don't you? It's okay. I know it's the Se inferior. You have given me a list of universal laws, just like a Ti user would. By tangible I meant that which can be perceived with the 5 senses. Not vague impressions that are felt internally. But you have a very captivating way of speaking about the richness of ones inner experience. I like it.



Allostasis said:


> I can notice that you are frustrated, but I stripped your analysis away not because I simply like mine more. And not because it doesn't fit into my view, but due to reasons that I stated. It is nothing personal. So, no, not really. Nothing about Te was supposed to make me automatically agree with you.


Yes, I am incredibly frustrated with you. And all that build up. And how unnecessarily verbose you have been. And all for naught. You don't need to agree with me. But if you'd pretty please take the test again INFJ.


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## Allostasis (Feb 2, 2021)

OrchidSugar said:


> Good. This is a nice start. However it is still incomplete. What about any of the items you have listed here are specific to Te? They should not overlap with any other cognitive functions. Otherwise how can we be sure that it is Te? I find it interesting that you have placed the word "applications" in quotation marks. Subconsciously you know that you haven't exactly performed/delivered adequately don't you? It's okay. I know it's the Se inferior. You have given me a list of universal laws, just like a Ti user would. By tangible I meant that which can be perceived with the 5 senses. Not vague impressions that are felt internally. But you have a very captivating way of speaking about the richness of ones inner experience. I like it.
> 
> 
> Yes, I am incredibly frustrated with you. And all that build up. And how unnecessarily verbose you have been. And all for naught. You don't need to agree with me. But if you'd pretty please take the test again INFJ.


If you want to read dull super concrete tangible descriptions of cognitive functions that are hopelessly inadequate in their grasp of the phenomena, then feel free to visit psychologyjunkie or read someone else that will make it nice and easy for you because this is not what I am willing to do, I don't think it is ultimately helpful. The existing mass of stereotypes is big enough as it is, I see no value in helping it grow.

Your frustration is the consequence of your inadequate (in relation to the topic) expectations. Stupidifying and primitivizing the topic won't help with teaching/understanding anything. You just can't express cognition in terms of 5 senses or concrete behaviors built from them, it is a dead-end.

I find tests retarded, but here is a fresh result anyway, enjoy :


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## OrchidSugar (5 mo ago)

Allostasis said:


> If you want to read dull super concrete tangible descriptions of cognitive functions that are hopelessly inadequate in their grasp of the phenomena, then feel free to visit psychologyjunkie or read someone else that will make it nice and easy for you because this is not what I am willing to do, I don't think it is ultimately helpful. The existing mass of stereotypes is big enough as it is, I see no value in helping it grow.
> 
> Your frustration is the consequence of your inadequate (in relation to the topic) expectations. Stupidifying and primitivizing the topic won't help with teaching/understanding anything. You just can't express cognition in terms of 5 senses or concrete behaviors built from them, it is a dead-end.
> 
> ...


You have shown nothing but inconsistency. You need to prove to me that none of the laws, or supposed "applications" you listed above can be explained by any other cognitive function. And you have failed to do so. Again, you trying to explain to me the source of my own emotions. Clear Ni/Fe behavior. Knock it off.


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## Allostasis (Feb 2, 2021)

OrchidSugar said:


> You have shown nothing but inconsistency. You need to prove to me that none of the laws, or supposed "applications" you listed above can be explained by any other cognitive function. And you have failed to do so. Again, you trying to explain to me the source of my own emotions. Clear Ni/Fe behavior. Knock it off.


No, I don't believe I need to prove anything to you. It is me who should be frustrated with you, I think. I wasted enough of my time and effort already, you just don't want to read anything other than what confirms your opinion.
I honestly don't care where your frustration comes from, and it isn't my problem to fix. I won't bother continuing until you will get it together.


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## 17041704 (May 28, 2020)

Mind if I borrow your post? (lol already did) I like your examples and wanna give it a go from my experience of Ti.



Allostasis said:


> Some rough "applications" of *Ti* :
> 1. Welcoming information that conflicts with your understanding. You criticize/question *the incoming information first* and *your understanding* in the second order.
> 
> 2. Welcoming criticism in general *if and only if 1. above checks out and it becomes evident that your understanding has to adjust*.
> ...


I think No. 1 and 2 are the main difference because they are often the source of confrontation in my interactions with people with strong Te. We process information slightly differently and expect others to do the same so we sometimes step on each others' toes without realising what's wrong.

Certain people with strong Te often have a habit of telling me that I don't know what I'm talking about (explicitly or implied) early in our conversations and now I realise that's because this is how they process information as you said in your earlier post (check your understanding first then incoming info), which to me can be rather offensive at times because such replies often lack justifications to show why they hold such view which I am very much tempted to regard as BS and evidence that this guy jumps to conclusion and doesn't know what he's talking about.


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

OrchidSugar said:


> I don't know what the original theory you are talking about is. (You don't need to explain it to me any further by god!) But I agree with what you say here:
> 
> The Te doms and auxs that I am thinking of are TJs. And the Ti doms and auxs I am thinking of are TPs. So that sounds fine to me.


I mention it also because it might help understand where @Allostasis is coming from, but I see your argument has progressed in the meantime.


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## OrchidSugar (5 mo ago)

Red Panda said:


> I mention it also because it might help understand where @Allostasis is coming from, but I see your argument has progressed in the meantime.


Talking with Allo makes me very tired, as he is incapable of getting to the point. And seems to enjoy getting off to his own pontifications and abstractions. And he is incredibly condescending and overly didactic from the start. If you want to try to pick up and explain things to me that would be just fine. But by god if it’s more of the same foolishness I will have to respectfully decline.


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## DOGSOUP (Jan 29, 2016)




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## Allostasis (Feb 2, 2021)

Does anyone else find what I say to be unnecessarily verbose or detached from the topic?
I thought I did get to the point many times, beating around the bush was never my intention. At times it seemed that it could be helpful to reflect understanding of others back to them so that they could see it for themselves how it can be improved, instead of just pushing my own definitions, but I think I provided both.


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## DOGSOUP (Jan 29, 2016)

Allostasis said:


> Does anyone else find what I say to be unnecessarily verbose or detached from the topic?
> I thought I did get to the point many times, beating around the bush was never my intention. At times it seemed that it could be helpful to reflect understanding of others back to them so that they could see it for themselves how it can be improved, instead of just pushing my own definitions, but I think I provided both.


Compared to Jung (and some other theorists), you are quite concise. But I have (some) prior understanding of where you come from, which other members might not have.


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## OrchidSugar (5 mo ago)

But this is my point. Allo is now attempting to appeal to Fe for positive reinforcements. The thing is I do not disagree with anything you have said Allo. But by your own definition, Ti is attached to a framework and Te is open-minded. You are attached to a Jungian or other framework that I am not familiar with and you are discussing it at length.

I came into this discussion with you open to learning more. You have been unnecessarily condescending and rude the entire time. And you have been pirouetting all over my last nerve. You are insulting my intelligence because it is easier than acknowledging your own shortcomings and your lack of self awareness. And now you are attempting to gather the tribe in formation with your Fi critic.

The only thing I said against you is:
1. That you do not get to the point and are impractical in your manner of speaking

2. That you are seeking definitions of Te when it seemed like OP was seeking practical applications in everyday life.

3. And that you have been inconsistent in your expectations for how we arrive at truth. You demanded that I provide examples of Te that could not be confused with any other cognitive function and then you failed to do the same.


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## DOGSOUP (Jan 29, 2016)

OrchidSugar said:


> But this is my point. Allo is now attempting to appeal to Fe for positive reinforcements. The thing is I do not disagree with anything you have said Allo. But by your own definition, Ti is attached to a framework and Te is open-minded. You are attached to a Jungian or other framework that I am not familiar with and you are discussing it at length.
> 
> I came into this discussion with you open to learning more. You have been unnecessarily condescending and rude the entire time. And you have been pirouetting all over my last nerve. You are insulting my intelligence because it is easier than acknowledging your own shortcomings and your lack of self awareness. And now you are attempting to gather the tribe in formation with your Fi critic.
> 
> ...


I hoped you were joking when you called him INFJ.


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