# How does your star sign impact your MBTI personality?



## evileagle

I'm wondering how you think your star sign (and birthday, if you know it) impacts on your MBTI type. I'm gearing this particularly towards people who have studied astrology/star signs and take it to be more than the gibberish horoscopes in magazines. I can go first to set the example and inspire further reflections for you.

As an INFJ Aries, I feel that my personality is driven by my inferior Se, because Aries being a cardinal fire sign gives my judging a specific channel of energy. I have actually come to believe that my current life's journey is related to this personal phenomenon. I feel that INFJ is a very discombobulated personality, as each function is so intense and each wants to dominate over the other, while the judging quality of the function stack does not really resolve a lot of this tension, just directs it into a constant rip-tide. I don't mean to sound like I'm sinking in quicksand. I'm not an unhealthy type at all. I simply think that INFJ is a really intense type as is and probably also the most misunderstood. I feel that I am constantly racing my Se (Aries loves physical challenge). I do love my inferior Se and how it bobs its mini head up above the surface, but Aries is a sensory-motivated animal, which is a self-contradiction somehow. I sometimes even find myself embracing conflict for the sport (which is not a typical INFJ thing, INFJ being conflict-averse to a fault, according to almost all descriptions of the type).

My birthday, 5th April, means I am not only ruled by Mars, but also Mercury, which explains why I can bring huge amounts of focus and concentration to something, which I tend to do with my Intuition, Feeling and Thinking. However, I also get locked into cycles of concentration, which is why I become repetitive, not so much in my speech, but my thoughts and pursuits. Some may relate this to Judging, but I feel this is particular experience is quite specific. I don't have enough to go on here to draw any conclusions about how MBTI and astrology compare when it comes to Judging or Perceiving. I would obviously love to know more about other people's reflections...

Another unusual trait of my birthday is emotional blockage. It is completely true that I suffer from emotional blockage. I remember taking an advanced, in depth MBTI test, which broke down the functions, but was not a cognitive functions test. It was moreso an assessment of to what extent you use each of the functions of your personality. Unfortunately, I cannot remember what it was called. The test told me I often rely more on my Ti than my Fe. I know and understand perfectly that this sounds wrong to some people, because my Fe is auxiliary and my Ti is tertiary, so how could this possibly be the case unless I'm maladjusted in some way and do nothing but live in my secret, introvert world. No! I reflected on each criterion of each function and drew some conclusions about how I use my functions. To me, it proved something I knew about myself and had difficulty with when it came to MBTI... There is an NF tragedy here somewhere... My star quality has obliterated my Feeling. It is not just my emotions, but my ability to reason with them which I so often cast aside in favour of a very straight-forward approach, which comes from somewhere not associated with my MBTI type, to a degree. INFJs are represented as being a mushy type, but I really couldn't be further from this description. In fact, Aries is so often described as aggressive, and rightfully so.

Aries is mostly an alpha type while INFJ is difficult to place. As far as I am aware, Socionics labels INFJs as betas. I cannot say where I would land on the Alpha/Beta/etc. scale. Sometimes I think it depends on the situation and relationship. In the end, I honestly could not describe myself as either alpha or beta. Maybe I'm sigma or omega, but I really don't know. I am an extremely introverted person, ultimately, but I have a charismatic and dominant side that can come out and I suppose that kind of fits with a collective understanding of Aries being dominant and charismatic. I don't think INFJs are seen as risk-takers because it is assumed we are kind of couch-potatoes and averse to playing in the sandcastle world of sensing, but 5th April people can be risk-takers. I certainly don't mind taking risks and it is true of me that I like to attract people who are of a similar nature into my life.

In the end, I am starting to wonder about the stereotypes we automatically/subconsciously create about types, based on what we think certain information means. I think we pretend too much here that this doesn't happen. We can't help it, usually. After all, we simply cannot imagine a person if we are told to only think of boxes. I am no psychologist and I never was able to keep a prevailing interest in psychology, but I think a psychologist would know that it is not good practice to associate more than is strictly essential to a psychological description, especially one that targets so many people. In case there is anyone who thinks this not worth some reflection: This is an indirect accusation directed at the MBTI community for being on the one hand spiritually non-compliant and on the other obsessed with reductionist principles that do not realistically matter, nor play a role in what potentially matters.


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## sandras

Hi, I do not know if I can offer much on this,

but I am an Aquarian. I like to think. I think the term "intellectual" is not wrong for me. So my MBTI's personality is a T. Does that help? Sorry if I can not help much...?


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## evileagle

sandras said:


> Hi, I do not know if I can offer much on this,
> 
> but I am an Aquarian. I like to think. I think the term "intellectual" is not wrong for me. So my MBTI's personality is a T. Does that help? Sorry if I can not help much...?


I think everything about this is fascinating. What is your MBTI? Aquarians often possess genius energy. Aquarius symbolises advanced thought under the explosive planet Uranus. It sees the infinite in all things and is accepting towards all points of view. It shows universal wisdom in thoughts and actions. Often Aquarians are childlike and filled with joy because they have an open attitude and often also possess an "artistic temperament". I believe this to be true of people born under this sign. When is your birthday? 

Astrology is quite a personal thing. Some people find it useful, others do not. However, one crucial thing about astrology is that it is very difficult to understand without imparting understanding about it to one another (like almost everything else).


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## ShiitakeK

i don't really think it does


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## Asd456

My sun sign is Aries and my moon sign is Aquarius. I'm an ENTJ. After reading a few descriptions, I think I'm more drawn to my moon sign? Sorry I can't provide a more in-depth answer. Astrology intrigues me, but I admit I haven't studied it on a deeper level.


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## Ewok City

I'm a Water sign, and I noticed that even the Thinkers with Water sign tend to be more emotional compared to their other sign counterparts. Same as Feelers of Air sign, who tend to be more logical. 

But interestingly, it really doesn't affect the typing as much. Meaning, there would still be an equal distribution of, say T and F across the sign.


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## tanstaafl28

evileagle said:


> I'm wondering how you think your star sign (and birthday, if you know it) impacts on your MBTI type. I'm gearing this particularly towards people who have studied astrology/star signs and take it to be more than the gibberish horoscopes in magazines. I can go first to set the example and inspire further reflections for you.
> 
> As an INFJ Aries, I feel that my personality is driven by my inferior Se, because Aries being a cardinal fire sign gives my judging a specific channel of energy. I have actually come to believe that my current life's journey is related to this personal phenomenon. I feel that INFJ is a very discombobulated personality, as each function is so intense and each wants to dominate over the other, while the judging quality of the function stack does not really resolve a lot of this tension, just directs it into a constant rip-tide. I don't mean to sound like I'm sinking in quicksand. I'm not an unhealthy type at all. I simply think that INFJ is a really intense type as is and probably also the most misunderstood. I feel that I am constantly racing my Se (Aries loves physical challenge). I do love my inferior Se and how it bobs its mini head up above the surface, but Aries is a sensory-motivated animal, which is a self-contradiction somehow. I sometimes even find myself embracing conflict for the sport (which is not a typical INFJ thing, INFJ being conflict-averse to a fault, according to almost all descriptions of the type).
> 
> My birthday, 5th April, means I am not only ruled by Mars, but also Mercury, which explains why I can bring huge amounts of focus and concentration to something, which I tend to do with my Intuition, Feeling and Thinking. However, I also get locked into cycles of concentration, which is why I become repetitive, not so much in my speech, but my thoughts and pursuits. Some may relate this to Judging, but I feel this is particular experience is quite specific. I don't have enough to go on here to draw any conclusions about how MBTI and astrology compare when it comes to Judging or Perceiving. I would obviously love to know more about other people's reflections...
> 
> Another unusual trait of my birthday is emotional blockage. It is completely true that I suffer from emotional blockage. I remember taking an advanced, in depth MBTI test, which broke down the functions, but was not a cognitive functions test. It was moreso an assessment of to what extent you use each of the functions of your personality. Unfortunately, I cannot remember what it was called. The test told me I often rely more on my Ti than my Fe. I know and understand perfectly that this sounds wrong to some people, because my Fe is auxiliary and my Ti is tertiary, so how could this possibly be the case unless I'm maladjusted in some way and do nothing but live in my secret, introvert world. No! I reflected on each criterion of each function and drew some conclusions about how I use my functions. To me, it proved something I knew about myself and had difficulty with when it came to MBTI... There is an NF tragedy here somewhere... My star quality has obliterated my Feeling. It is not just my emotions, but my ability to reason with them which I so often cast aside in favour of a very straight-forward approach, which comes from somewhere not associated with my MBTI type, to a degree. INFJs are represented as being a mushy type, but I really couldn't be further from this description. In fact, Aries is so often described as aggressive, and rightfully so.
> 
> Aries is mostly an alpha type while INFJ is difficult to place. As far as I am aware, Socionics labels INFJs as betas. I cannot say where I would land on the Alpha/Beta/etc. scale. Sometimes I think it depends on the situation and relationship. In the end, I honestly could not describe myself as either alpha or beta. Maybe I'm sigma or omega, but I really don't know. I am an extremely introverted person, ultimately, but I have a charismatic and dominant side that can come out and I suppose that kind of fits with a collective understanding of Aries being dominant and charismatic. I don't think INFJs are seen as risk-takers because it is assumed we are kind of couch-potatoes and averse to playing in the sandcastle world of sensing, but 5th April people can be risk-takers. I certainly don't mind taking risks and it is true of me that I like to attract people who are of a similar nature into my life.
> 
> In the end, I am starting to wonder about the stereotypes we automatically/subconsciously create about types, based on what we think certain information means. I think we pretend too much here that this doesn't happen. We can't help it, usually. After all, we simply cannot imagine a person if we are told to only think of boxes. I am no psychologist and I never was able to keep a prevailing interest in psychology, but I think a psychologist would know that it is not good practice to associate more than is strictly essential to a psychological description, especially one that targets so many people. In case there is anyone who thinks this not worth some reflection: This is an indirect accusation directed at the MBTI community for being on the one hand spiritually non-compliant and on the other obsessed with reductionist principles that do not realistically matter, nor play a role in what potentially matters.


It doesn't.


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## evileagle

Ewok City said:


> I'm a Water sign, and I noticed that even the Thinkers with Water sign tend to be more emotional compared to their other sign counterparts. Same as Feelers of Air sign, who tend to be more logical.
> 
> But interestingly, it really doesn't affect the typing as much. Meaning, there would still be an equal distribution of, say T and F across the sign.


I agree with everything here as I made the same observations. Water signs are definitely more emotional and air signs more logical. I wondered what people's experiences were.

I suppose what I meant is that my star sign affects the expression of my MBTI type. Fe will always be my auxiliary, but I sometimes don't use it in a typical way... I didn't mean that my star sign has bamboozled my cognitive functions completely. I really hope that's _allowed_ to make sense.


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## 556155

Ah, I can't say I really believe in it that much but my astral theme (Cancer ascendant Virgo) fits quite well, was much more interesting to read than the MBTI stuff and could vaguely explain how I stray from some INFP depictions. I can't say I relate so much to being a water sign enhancing my emotional side which I feel is quite bottled up.


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## Glittris

If I am Leo (27th July), how does my star sign relate to MBTI, does it means that most people born in July also will get either Ni or Te or Fi as functions? I have not found a working theory that ties this type of astrology to MBTI.


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## Rift

tanstaafl28 said:


> It doesn't.



no, it doesn't.. but if we were to entertain the idea then we'd be looking at the ascendant primarily, anyway. which supposedly represents the shadow personality, the projection to the world. . .tailored by other nodes in the chart whereas the sun sign is allegedly the representation of the foundation. . . which is in astrology is considered base or instictive. various nodes having varying attributes. . . like eastern astrology, the proportion of the elements is important. while western adds the layout of the lines. . . different geometric configurations and individual positions strengthen or weaken the overall elemental influences or oppose/counter/reverse. such concepts frequently make their way into video game design.


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## tanstaafl28

Rift said:


> no, it doesn't.. but if we were to entertain the idea then we'd be looking at the ascendant primarily, anyway. which supposedly represents the shadow personality, the projection to the world. . .tailored by other nodes in the chart whereas the sun sign is allegedly the representation of the foundation. . . which is in astrology is considered base or instictive. various nodes having varying attributes. . . like eastern astrology, the proportion of the elements is important. while western adds the layout of the lines. . . different geometric configurations and individual positions strengthen or weaken the overall elemental influences or oppose/counter/reverse. such concepts frequently make their way into video game design.


Pretty sure it's Cancer moon, Taurus Sun, and Virgo Ascending?


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## Rift

tanstaafl28 said:


> Pretty sure it's Cancer moon, Taurus Sun, and Virgo Ascending?


if you wanted to bring freud into it,

the moon is the id

the sun is the ego

the ascendant is the super-ego

moon is supposed to be representive of a grounding force, though really it can be either an anchor or buoy ... sometimes both - it might be described as a reactionary response, a measure of wellbeing, and it's placement representative of innate goals, life purpose. a trait that could be developed or avoided but like the sun and ascendant has a more active influence than other placements on the chart. which have more specific yet sublte influences.

in the classic sense cancer is representive of parental love, it's a caretaker, a fierce defender, akin to xxFJs, one that is protective of their own emotions but may also react emotionally to in the way of guarding personal interests, values, things or people it's claimed as their own. like other water signs, it can be turblent with it's well being is measured by it's emotional state... but for cancer in particular, it's the balance of the things within its life that leads to the stability of its emotions... it's emotive state relative to external. in unhealthy forms, it can be a hoarder, too protective and has trouble letting go. 

the ascendant is reflective of how most people describe the sun sign. it's the mask we wear, our projection into the physical world and how others may perceive us. It's considered quite complimentary to cancer, it is the more rational twin of it. it's representative of harvest & fertility by its symbolism but we could say scientist or gardener. earth signs are generally led in descriptions by their more negative attributes; stubbornness, inflexibility, opinionated, structured, doesn't deal with unpredictable changes well. but their primary strength is related to pragmaticism. virgo in particular is less rigid than other signs, other earths in particular, it is considered mutable and garners its stability in seeing predictable transformations, transitions, changes from beginning to end. it one to raise things from seeds, inklings, a hypothesis and see them grow to fruition. it's weakness is when things don't go as planned or obstacles get in the way, however, perhaps contradictory, that parental aspect coming in, it enjoys resolving these problems in others, serving as practical mediator in the relationship between people, ideas and things. again, focus on the external but in a more analytical way than cancer.

the sun sign is perhaps best described as the inner child, and taurus sun, another earth, tends to gets the worst thrown at it... for being the most stubborn of the earth signs. all of the signs and elements have their streaks but taurus backs its stubbornness with strength and determination unseen by the others. it is not easily coaxed to react the way situations demand or people desire it to. it thrives on external comforts and material pleasures. but as a sun sign, it's more passive than the ascendant and where the moon might direct goals or purpose, the ascendant as the matter in how they are achieved or sustained, while the sun may be representative of the motivation, driving force behind behind them... it's primary demand is to be comfortable and well sustained, sated. . . in ways of both external and internal harmony. if it's not content, it's a bull in a china shop and as a sun, the tantrum throwing child. . . to which people tend to react to more severely, lose patience with, and seek too quickly to either punish or reward in order to sate it's appetite for physical proof, material needs and a desire to see action. hence, it's bad reputation. But it's needs are more easily fulfilled than the other signs, as are the sun signs in general, taurus is just a little more transparent about it. it garners its sense of security by creature comforts and personal fulfillment. contrary to its bad reputation, it doesn't seek excess but only contentment. it only seeks to sate its needs, not gorge and this often met by the material or physical action. something often well within its immediate grasp.


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## incision

My sister and I were born under the same sign. We're like night and day, different MBTI types too, so I don't see any impact.


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## Rift

incision said:


> My sister and I were born under the same sign. We're like night and day, different MBTI types too, so I don't see any impact.



birth charts are quite a bit more complex. . . like personality profiles, they often become superficial versions of themselves in the mainstream. however, even in it's fuller form, it's more of a guidance tool than a predictor. One might look at their chart and see patterns that correlate to themselves.. but humans by nature, look for patterns in some shape or form. . . and frequently personify them.

these are simple, free with automated description that should suffice, if you want to entertain the idea.

*the first one is more brief, the second a bit more extensive









Free Astrology Chart | Astrolabe Inc


Astrolabe Inc, the world's largest publisher of astrology software, including the best-selling program Solar Fire.




alabe.com













Free Astrology Reports: Natal Chart, Compatibility, Forecast


Free astrological readings based on your date, time and place of birth from Chaos Astrology.



chaosastrologer.com


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## Ewok City

incision said:


> My sister and I were born under the same sign. We're like night and day, different MBTI types too, so I don't see any impact.





Rift said:


> birth charts are quite a bit more complex


I agree. Sometimes it's like the Venn diagram, two people under the same sign with opposing personalities would still have some overlaps. 

But of course, since this is not science, I won't try to convince others to believe in this. Astrology usually only makes sense if you genuinely believe in it, anyways.


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## Rift

Ewok City said:


> Astrology usually only makes sense if you genuinely believe in it, anyways.


it makes for decent entertaintment, like exploring hermeticism and alchemy. early precursors for exploring the human psyche and it's relationship to the physical world. also good for game design. .. but people probably see it more in anime.


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## Electra

It learned me about the four elements (Earth, Fire, Water and Air), which represents the Kierseys four basic temprements (SJ, SP, NF anf NT) and the zodiaks 12 (or now 13) starsigns (Including the waterbringer). I don't believe in the birthdate influence at all- I believe the zodiak represent archtypes, just like the Tarot deck.


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## Zoingeroni

I don't believe in birth charts. Like, at all xP I've hand-picked my types and came out cancer & 12th house dominant, which gels well with INFJ. I think if people treated astrology like typology instead of spirituality, most people would find they have a dominant sign & house.


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## evileagle

More food for thought here: , I also think life path numerology makes a difference to type, somehow, although I am now unclear as to what exactly type means, if not something non-religious yet spiritual (being myself agnostic I have an unfortunate inability to see the world in atheist terms, including this idea that MBTI is the sole benefactor of type)... My life path number is 3 and, being semi-ruled by Mercury, my sense for communication is intense and I really believe my life path number applies to me. I have always felt born to be a creative and I have a certain kind of wit and optimism, etc. As usual, you can say that this could apply to literally everyone, but not so if you read between the lines and take reference from multiple sources plus personal reflection. I also observe life paths in other people close to me and believe it to be true. And I find myself wondering if there exists some kind of vague overlap with the Enneagram...








Your Life Path Number | Felicia Bender


YOUR LIFE PATH NUMBER The Life Path number is calculated from your birth date. It's like the sun sign in astrology. ABOUT THE LIFE PATH NUMBER: Your Life Path number is calculated from your birth date. It's like the sun sign in astrology. IN NUMEROLOGY, WE WORK WITH THE NUMBERS 1-9. And...




feliciabender.com


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## evileagle

And yes, Scorpio is my rising sign, which explains why I am an emotional Aries... lol


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## evileagle

I can really see the skeleton of my INFJ type in my astrological birth chart description, in for example, the one I got from the link that @Rift kindly shared. So, my Sun sign is Aries and I really identify with it somehow, maybe because Aries concerns itself with identity a lot. Scorpio is my ascendant and I have a lot of emotion. I really identify with the concept of being pulled down to Hell continually, which is a Scorpio thing (I am quite dark). I do feel as if I have this constant war within myself between what I want as a Aries versus Scorpio, which rules me completely. I don't know if other INFJs will identify with this emotional battle. In fact, years ago, before I finally figured out my type, I thought I used Fi... My Moon is Taurus, which I feel sort of accounts for my stubbornness, which is so characteristic of Tauruses (wanting to sit at home in my comfy surroundings, wearing my Arran jumper (introversion) and weak Se, being slow to do things). Mercury, Venus as well as Mars are in Pisces for me, which is quite significant to my comparison with INFJ. 

*Mercury in Pisces "Your ideas and thought processes do not come to you in an orderly, logical fashion. Instead, you think with your feelings or with images produced by your rich and fertile imagination. A very subjective person, your dreams and fantasies are very important to you. You trust your intuitions and tend to reject ideas that are based solely on logic. Very impressionable, you are sensitive to the moods and emotional states of those with whom you come into contact."
* 
This really describes my Ni intiution and Ni-Fe very well. I am so clumsy with words and they really do not come naturally to me.

*Venus in Pisces "You have a dreamy, fanciful, romantic nature and a very creative imagination. Indeed, at times, your private fantasies are more appealing than the reality around you and it is difficult for you to leave them. You tend to be unselfish and giving in relationships and are extremely sensitive of the needs of others. Be very sure that those you help are worthy of your devotion and are not merely taking advantage of your innocence and naivete."*

Pisces again, yet sounds so INFJ to me as well!

*Mars in Pisces "Very sensitive and vulnerable, it is difficult for you to assert yourself. At times, you feel quite tired and you will require a lot of sleep in order to maintain your health and your strength. You are at your best when you act without your ego being important. You can be very unselfish and considerate of the needs of others." *

This sensitivity, vulnerability and difficulty with self-assertion is actually the bane of my existence and having Mars so prominent in my birth chart, this really is the cause of so much conflict within myself between Aries and Scorpio! I saw on another discussion about MBTI and astrology, an INFJ stating, almost asserting as fact that Pisces represents the INFJ so succinctly, she seemed to not be able to tell the two apart! 😂 I believe there may be something to that!

*Jupiter in Virgo "You feel most expansive and at ease with yourself when you are doing something that you consider to be practical or useful. You enjoy being dutiful and carrying out responsibilities. You gladly take on the little tasks that others seem to want to avoid. At times, you carry things to extremes and feel guilty anytime you do something that you consider to be self-indulgent. While it is appropriate for you to demand little for yourself in life, try to loosen up once in a while -- go out on a fling and enjoy yourself!"*

Of all signs, I seem to have the least in common with Capricorn, Capricorn being my North Node, which to me as a sign, seems to represent many of the characteristics of Judging, both "J" as well as judging functions... I always felt my Judging was kind of just "there" as a substitute in case something went wrong. Although I do understand completely how this function functions in my type, I don't identify with the usual MBTI descriptions of judging, such as being punctual, always having a plan, etc. Perhaps Judgers who have Capricorn in their birth chart are more poised to be "typical judgers". I wonder..? I feel that Jupiter in Virgo represents my judging...

Also, having Scorpio rising, means I also have a strong relationship with Pluto. 

*Pluto is in Scorpio "For your entire generation, this is a period of intense research and discovery in areas that were heretofore considered mysterious, remote or taboo. The root causes for many complex occurrences will be unearthed due to the intensity and thoroughness of the search."*

I honestly couldn't identify with this more! I feel as if my intuition was born under Pluto in Scorpio. I am _obsessed _with exactly what this describes.

This site gives great birthday readings, if you just search your birthday in the search box... Zodiac

And here is another good birth chart reading








Free Birth Chart, Astrology Online | Astro-Seek.com


www.Astro-Seek.com - Seek and meet people born on the same date as you




horoscopes.astro-seek.com





@Rift What an amazing description you've given of Cancer, Taurus and Virgo!! What are your signs?

On Tauruses having a bad rep: Yes! My combination of signs have rendered me completely unlikable to people..! Isn't it true that astrology was basically ended because of signs having a bad reputation, in the case of Martin Luther being a Scorpio? As far as I remember a Bishop or Cardinal wanted to encourage astrology, but because Martin Luther was a Scorpio and therefore 'a person prone to jealousy', felt he could not preach astrology in tandem with Martin Luther's new vision for religion, because it may have appeared as begrudgery against Martin Luther. As a result, astrology was largely abandoned...?


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## Rift

evileagle said:


> @Rift What an amazing description you've given of Cancer, Taurus and Virgo!! What are your signs?


sun: pisces
ascendant/rising: scorpio
moon: taurus (7th house)

...

mercury: pisces (5th house)
venus: capricorn
mars: pisces
jupiter: cancer (9th house)
saturn: virgo (10th & 11th house)
uranus: scorpio (1st house)
neptune: sagittarius (2nd house)
pluto: libra (12th house)

...


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## evileagle

Rift said:


> sun: pisces
> ascendant/rising: scorpio
> moon: taurus (7th house)
> 
> ...
> 
> mercury: pisces (5th house)
> venus: capricorn
> mars: pisces
> jupiter: cancer (9th house)
> saturn: virgo (10th & 11th house)
> uranus: scorpio (1st house)
> neptune: sagittarius (2nd house)
> pluto: libra (12th house)
> 
> ...


You must be living a very fruitful life! Your placements all looks very harmonious to me... Are you a dominant Ti user as well? You must have so much imagination!

As far as I know, some of Jungian personality theory is taken from astrology. I definitely need to do more reading on this to figure it all out. A lot of the most available reading is on the relation between Jungian synchronicity and astrology (which I find very interesting) and less on Jungian personality and astrology, though I know from the book _Psychological Types_, the astrological elements are mentioned.


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## Rift

evileagle said:


> You must be living a very fruitful life! Your placements all looks very harmonious to me... Are you a dominant Ti user as well? You must have so much imagination!
> 
> As far as I know, some of Jungian personality theory is taken from astrology. I definitely need to do more reading on this to figure it all out. A lot of the most available reading is on the relation between Jungian synchronicity and astrology (which I find very interesting) and less on Jungian personality and astrology, though I know from the book _Psychological Types_, the astrological elements are mentioned.


wouldn't exactly say fruitful. complex relationships with people, family. less than healthy situations while exploring whether values hold any legitimate purpose.

there's also an active psychology school of thought that uses astrology. the primary reasoning and semi professional acceptance of it is because it correlates with personality archetypes and gives a base in which to connect with clients on terms they may be more familiar with. perhaps, oddly enough, those that utilize it the most, in the western world, often have faith based practices, predominately non-denominational christians. though I'd admit curiosity to see what it would be like among more esoteric branches to compare.


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## evileagle

Rift said:


> wouldn't exactly say fruitful. complex relationships with people, family. less than healthy situations while exploring whether values hold any legitimate purpose.
> 
> there's also an active psychology school of thought that uses astrology. the primary reasoning and semi professional acceptance of it is because it correlates with personality archetypes and gives a base in which to connect with clients on terms they may be more familiar with. perhaps, oddly enough, those that utilize it the most, in the western world, often have faith based practices, predominately non-denominational christians. though I'd admit curiosity to see what it would be like among more esoteric branches to compare.


I have a square aspect between Aries Sun and Scorpio Rising, so although my chart might appear formidable and what not, I really am not and am quite restricted in how I realise any of my efforts... :-( But if we were free to do everything we would have too much cosmic time on our hands... :'-D

Esoteric meaning among Hindu religious sects and traditions..? I know that the Indian astrological tradition is more developed in many ways in that they devised a system for understanding the human body astrologically through yoga and ayurveda. It is more cosmology based, while Western astrology and alchemy are more based on the seasons of the Earth. However, I do not speak Hindu, so this is next to impossible to research, especially as now more and more Westerners are following yoga, causing the increased rate of bastardisation of traditional Hindu concepts. Yet, eastern thought seems to be more and more accepted in Western thought, starting with Americanised mindfulness.

I have started researching about occult beliefs, which may eventually bring something up. I also know a couple of Theosophists/Steiner followers, whose beliefs around astrology are kind of interesting in that they believe in fairies..!

And then there is the current issue of psychology deviating from the normative social atheistic standard... Not only does research around parapsychology continue, but psychologists are forced to devise treatments for those who find themselves spiritually sick in a state of "spiritual emergency" and there is another term, whose name unfortunately escapes me, which involves "unusual perceptual experiences" due to occult practices or psychic experiences, whose existence simply cannot be denied for the sake of the patient's welfare alone. I find myself wondering if this is the new esoteric, since everything else has seemed to gone lost and we really are just running around in circles when it comes to human civilisation.

What have you found to be esoteric astrology?


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## Rift

evileagle said:


> What have you found to be esoteric astrology?


oh, not esoteric astrology. more the use of this combination of using astrology as an archetypal guide among some of the more esoteric christian faiths.. or I suppose how the collective ecumenism has moved form their shared universal traits to seeing more exotic amalgamation that seems akin to a rosicrucian or gnostic revivial, of course, not without much of the same controversies... but we see this trend across more than christians alone as they continue to lose 'faith' in leadership of their sects or communities while also longing for ritual and connection to cultural expression... or the cross pollination of coptic to orthodox to catholic to various other formal christian sects and vice versa with some of the more exotic sects that incorporate more polytheistic or antithetical beliefs, such as one sees within voodun or santeria than say unitarian universalism which is having its own schism, I suppose it could be looked at like various sects that incorporate re-creationist indigenous spirituality, which largely consider themselves christian, in the u.s. primarily of southern baptist and charismatics faiths with a slight deviation towards incorporating native american folklore and re-creating aspects of native american spirituality.. which wasn't unlike how early celts adopted christianity and againing, seeing another schism leading back to it, as people are more keen to believe in angels, daemons, spirits, fairies, unseen 'spiritual' forces or cosmic control than psychiatry. . . particular in poorer communities where its often viewed as a luxury rather than a necessity, thus somewhat hostile to it and psychology to a lesser degree unless it meets them halfway.


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## evileagle

Rift said:


> oh, not esoteric astrology. more the use of this combination of using astrology as an archetypal guide among some of the more esoteric christian faiths.. or I suppose how the collective ecumenism has moved form their shared universal traits to seeing more exotic amalgamation that seems akin to a rosicrucian or gnostic revivial, of course, not without much of the same controversies... but we see this trend across more than christians alone as they continue to lose 'faith' in leadership of their sects or communities while also longing for ritual and connection to cultural expression... or the cross pollination of coptic to orthodox to catholic to various other formal christian sects and vice versa with some of the more exotic sects that incorporate more polytheistic or antithetical beliefs, such as one sees within voodun or santeria than say unitarian universalism which is having its own schism, I suppose it could be looked at like various sects that incorporate re-creationist indigenous spirituality, which largely consider themselves christian, in the u.s. primarily of southern baptist and charismatics faiths with a slight deviation towards incorporating native american folklore and re-creating aspects of native american spirituality.. which wasn't unlike how early celts adopted christianity and againing, seeing another schism leading back to it, as people are more keen to believe in angels, daemons, spirits, fairies, unseen 'spiritual' forces or cosmic control than psychiatry. . . particular in poorer communities where its often viewed as a luxury rather than a necessity, thus somewhat hostile to it and psychology to a lesser degree unless it meets them halfway.


Thanks for sharing this! This is so interesting!! I had not heard of Rosicrucianism nor Unitarianism. I will read up about it and return once I have. I have for a while been quite fascinated with Native American spirituality and I would really like to know more. I would really like to know more about Native American spirituality. I have read a little about Vodou religion and eventually discovered Hoodoo spirituality, which is a kind of a modern, New Age Vodou, which also uses astrology...

I have thought that atheism is little more than a Christian sect who place universal value on the objectivity of that which they espouse. For them, the concept belief itself is something which can only be understood objectively and any belief in the concept of its subjective existence is therefore completely rejected. It is from this perspective, I think, that psychiatry takes its role - the result of a gradual evolution in scientific thought (without actually leading to any scientific discovery, not much unlike some religions whose prophets have not yet arrived). In a future, more religious/spiritual society which has seen a downfall of the more important Enlightenment values, this collective belief/faith in psychiatry would fade. This mode of practice which places authoritative value on doctor-patient trust would be replaced by a society that trusts experience because it believes that what certain individuals experience is real and therefore is more at liberty (in some senses) to place pass that trust on elsewhere. I have my doubts as to whether, at least in Europe, people would be so easily converted, as they appear to be in America. What I see in front of me is a people who need to cling to their Enlightenment values as a form of collective remembering and adulterated redemption from the political decadence of previous World Wars.


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## Annaria

Knowing your full natal chart actually requires knowing the hour and location of your birth as well. I've studied astrology just enough to know what mine means. It includes:

Sun: What's usually read as daily horoscope. The facade that you show to the other people.
Moon: Your soul, your being behind the facade.
Ascendant: Social personality.
Midheaven: Achievements.
Now, my sun sign is a Libra which is an intellectual social butterfly which doesn't match my INFJ type alone that well. But once you look at my other signs things start to get oddly similar. My moon is Scorpio so my soul is intense and mysterious. My ascendant is Cancer so my social personality is highly imaginitive and loyal. My midheaven is Aquarius so my achievements are bound to be progressive and humanitarian.

Whether you believe this is coincidence or not, if there ever was a natal chart that correlates with INFJ, it's that.


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## Ssenptni

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## Ssenptni

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## eeo

I'm Taurus Sun, Virgo Moon, Taurus Ascendant. Very...earthy. Practical, pragmatic, stubborn, lazy, self-indulgent, inert, careful, hands-on, methodical are the keywords with that combination. Doesn't really sound like INFP, does it?


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## Dscross

Not to be a killjoy but star signs are unrelated to any of this. It's a superstition that was created in ancient Babylon based on their religion at the time (the gods were believed to present themselves in the celestial images of the planets or stars with whom they were associated). This is in contrast to Carl Jung's Psychological Types, which is much more recent and based on observation from a psychology expert who studied people all his life and took pains to base it on as close to the scientific method as he could at the time. Carl Jung was not religious.


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## eeo

Dscross said:


> Not to be a killjoy but star signs are unrelated to any of this. It's a superstition that was created in ancient Babylon based on their religion at the time (the gods were believed to present themselves in the celestial images of the planets or stars with whom they were associated). This is in contrast to Carl Jung's Psychological Types, which is much more recent and based on observation from a psychology expert who studied people all his life and took pains to base it on as close to the scientific method as he could at the time. Carl Jung was not religious.


Not so unrelated as you might think. Jung was into archetypal symbolism of astrology, he was using horoscopes in his practice. There's a book on this subject.









Jung on Astrology


Jung on Astrology brings together C. G. Jung’s thoughts on astrology in a single volume for the first time, significantly adding to our understanding of Jung’s work. Jung’s Collected Works, seminars, and letters contain numerous discussions of this ancient divinatory system, and Jung himself...




www.routledge.com


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## Dscross

eeo said:


> Not so unrelated as you might think. Jung was into archetypal symbolism of astrology, he was using horoscopes in his practice. There's a book on this subject.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> Jung on Astrology
> 
> 
> Jung on Astrology brings together C. G. Jung’s thoughts on astrology in a single volume for the first time, significantly adding to our understanding of Jung’s work. Jung’s Collected Works, seminars, and letters contain numerous discussions of this ancient divinatory system, and Jung himself...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.routledge.com


It's more symbolism than a prediction of personality though right?


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## eeo

Dscross said:


> It's more symbolism than a prediction of personality though right?


I guess it depends on how people use them. Both systems can be superficial and present descriptions of personalities with certainty, both are also thought of as pseudoscience. People who are really invested in astrology are certain they're able to predict personality based on their system. Drop a few keywords in social settings, and you can wow people into thinking you're really on to something. People invested in MBTI can do the exact same. Using star signs to evaluate employees seems silly, but MBTI is used exactly like that. 12 (or 13 for some) signs vs 16 types...

There is also astropsychology, which takes things further than the alignment of planets.


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## Dscross

eeo said:


> I guess it depends on how people use them. Both systems can be superficial and present descriptions of personalities with certainty, both are also thought of as pseudoscience. People who are really invested in astrology are certain they're able to predict personality based on their system. Drop a few keywords in social settings, and you can wow people into thinking you're really on to something. People invested in MBTI can do the exact same. Using star signs to evaluate employees seems silly, but MBTI is used exactly like that. 12 (or 13 for some) signs vs 16 types...
> 
> There is also astropsychology, which takes things further than the alignment of planets.


I meant that Jung talked about astrology in terms of symbolism rather than predictive usage whereas his book Psychological types was used to see what people were like. I don't agree that star signs are the same as Jungian personality types, although I see your point as to how people could potentially use them. But there is the potential to be objective and base it on things that are more tangible and observable - such as dictomonies or cognitive functions, which we can agree have at least some basis in human behaviour even if it's not entirely provable or necessarily accurate. But star signs are just random nonsense based on nothing.


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## Ssenptni

We have plenty of evidence of phenomena showing similarity at different scales, see Mandelbrot's The Fractal Geometry of Nature. Repeating for emphasis: _of Nature_. The idea that a configuration of celestial bodies may have some relation to properties of a person born at a certain time and place, should not be casually dismissed.


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## Ssenptni

Although I would agree there's probably limited predictive value.


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## Dscross

Ssenptni said:


> We have plenty of evidence of phenomena showing similarity at different scales, see Mandelbrot's The Fractal Geometry of Nature. Repeating for emphasis: _of Nature_. The idea that a configuration of celestial bodies may have some relation to properties of a person born at a certain time and place, should not be casually dismissed.


You'll have to elaborate on that as I am unsure of your point. What are you saying the value of astrology is if not to predict personality as most people do?


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## eeo

Dscross said:


> Star signs are just random nonsense based on nothing.


Yet there is a system created out of all that which appealed to Jung in such a capacity to spark the idea to develop his own system. They're not the same, obviously, but the connection is there, so I still find it funny how revered one is while the other is demonized.


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## Dscross

eeo said:


> Yet there is a system created out of all that which appealed to Jung in such a capacity to spark the idea to develop his own system. They're not the same, obviously, but the connection is there, so I still find it funny how revered one is while the other is demonized.


As far as I understand it he was fascinated by the collective unconscious / human mythology and astrology is a big part of that in human history. So it was part of his work on archetypes. So there is a tenuous connection but not in the way you are implying. He didn't use it to predict personality types as far as I'm aware, although he used it as a diagnostic tool for certain individuals as part of tapping into the unconscious.


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## eeo

Dscross said:


> So there is a tenuous connection but not in the way you are implying. He didn't use it to predict personality types as far as I'm aware.


That's not what I'm implying. I'm talking about the systems as wholes.


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## Dscross

eeo said:


> That's not what I'm implying. I'm talking about the systems as wholes.


Well, then I don't get your point. It's demonised because there isn't much use in horoscopes, in my opinion. But I have no issues in using it as a collective unconscious/symbolism thing. But most people don't use it that way, let's be honest.


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## Ssenptni

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## muneka

idk how they correlate and i never thought about it
i will need to deep dive to find out the connections between them

its been a while since i read about natal chart so suffice to say i have no idea where to start

but i do remember myself being a:
Libra sun
Aries moon
Aquarius rising


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## jerymcd

I don't belive in life path numbers, horoscopes, or any astrology. i belive in karma and hard works. god helps those who works hard and helps others. so that is the reason i dont belive in horoscopes.


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## Dscross

jerymcd said:


> I don't belive in life path numbers, horoscopes, or any astrology. i belive in karma and hard works. god helps those who works hard and helps others. so that is the reason i dont belive in horoscopes.


What makes you so sure the idea of a God is more true than the other things mentioned?


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## Drecon

I don't believe in any of this, but I'll humor you and put in my two cents. 

I'm an INFJ Taurus, which is a very interesting combination. I'm an airhead who's also grounded in some ways. I try to provide an environment where others can thrive and focus on putting up processes in the background that boost the whole team. 

I do struggle with how I crave to be practical and mind the details of things, but I always take a helicopter view of things and only see the broad strokes. 
My colleagues see me as a foundation for the team, laying the groundwork so that others can excel and do their thing without the danger of forgetting things that are important to everyone.

My Ni and star sign both give me an obsessive personality, which I see play out in various ways. I stick with things for a long time, although I do have ADHD, so that part of my can make me do a lot of side projects before returning to the problems that I'm actually working on. 
Dominant Ni also makes me respond strongly (and negatively) to surprises. I crave control and something that changes my plans is sure to make me panic and often dig in my heels. If I was planning to spend the night playing a computer game and you're asking me if I'm going to go out tonight, your chances of that are close to 0.

My inferior Se drives me to be hedonistic and focus on personal satisfaction. It's a method of stress relief, but often not a healthy one for me. If I'm doing well, I will usually not overindulge. 

You could theorize that an INFJ Taurus is likely to favor Ti over Fe and try very hard to focus on managing himself rather than conversing with their environment. That has been true for me in my youth, although I've found that I've secretly been developing Fe at the same time, so when I actively started using it, I quickly made better use of it than my Ti. 

As a Taurus I'm supposed to focus on things like physical wealth and stuff, but I could not care less about that (although I do like having nice things of course. I just detest the concept of money with passion). I'm supposed to be uncompromising, but I'm actually very easygoing and tend to say yes to things that I should have said no to a lot of the time. The biggest strike might be the idea of me being practical. I'm very far from being practical. I constantly have ideas about how society could be changed to benefit everyone, with no idea of how to actually put anything like that in practice. That said, I have learned over the years to focus mostly on things that are within my locus of control, which has made me much happier. 

In the end, I don't believe your zodiac sign means that much, but it can be interesting to think about aspects of it and see what lines up and what doesn't. If you believe in it, it could be interesting to see how the two interact and if there's a pattern to the way that they interact. You'd need so much data for that though. There are a 192 combinations and you'd need around 30 of each combination to get good data to use for something like this. That might not be feasible.


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## thisisme

i think astrology is interesting for sure. it's interesting comparing me (cancer) to my enfp sister (leo) probably same e type even but man we really are different. we are a lot the same...on "paper" but in reality lots of differences. 

i'm cancer sun, aquarius moon, libra rising. idk i feel like i can see that influence.


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## Faery

I'm also an INFJ Aries. I relate to your experiences. I think there's additional masculine energy somewhere. I grew up as the tom-boy but also love the color pink, played with barbies, and love hello kitty. I love physical challenges as well, as well as competition (games) but that competition appears in an INFJ manner of being aggressively supportive. I usually choose to play healers/support. I like physical challenges, working out hard and seeing how far I can push myself, not necessarily vs. other people, but to beat my previous best.

Aries has a childlike side as well as being passionate, driven, strong, determined, and focused. There's also a side of me that's daring and fearless. I don't give up easily.


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## alcobow

Hey, our natal chart is our personality and I think it leaves a huge imprint on MBTI type.

I have a dominant Aries Mars in the 12th house that gives me Se-dom. Yes, many positive features are hidden, but Se-dom!!!!
I have a stellium in Aquarius (Sun, Mercury, Venus, Uranus, Neptune) that gives me Ti.
I am also very much influenced by the Leo moon, but I don't understand what it would be better to tie it to, to what function.🤷🏻‍♀️


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