# Both Fi and Fe users can sympathize and empathize



## DJeter (May 24, 2011)

I see this a lot around the forum, particularly in the thread for saying one verb per function. Fe users claim Fe is about empathy and Fi is about sympathy, while Fi users claim Fi is about empathy and Fe is about sympathy. This goes to the classic question of what's better: empathy or sympathy? Everyone says empathy, so they want their type to be the empathy capable type.

Sorry to burst the crypto-typist bubble. But both functions can aid in either empathy or sympathy. Remember: functions aren't behavior. Any type can do anything (except have a different functional stack).


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## mushr00m (May 23, 2011)

I agree. Sympathy and empathy is not just restricted to function use, it's not that segregated, we are all capable of both. Im a strong empath so balls to that, haha! And sometimes I can only sympathize, yeah a personal example but an example nonetheless. Sympathy is still a caring stance, you may not completely understand the other person but you are still stepping out your zone to listen to their perspective and are concerned, it's still genuine.


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## phoenixpinion (Dec 27, 2012)

I agree totally. 

People have this weird idea that I/E counterparts of the same function are diametrically opposed, probably arising from the twisted notion that the internal and external worlds are separate realities...


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## imanonmd (May 9, 2013)

I remember saying that on the one verb thread.  It is difficult to sum up such a diverse concept in single word, it's a loose generalization. I have to agree that both Fi and Fe users are capable to use empathy/sympathy, but in my opinion Fe users use the latter more and the other way around. Of course a strong Fi user will be appaled if he saw someone beaten to death even if he hasn't experienced it firsthand, and strong Fe users can feel empathy towards someone once they've experienced a similar situation, but overall Fe is about breadth and Fi about depth. Empathy vs Sympathy - Difference and Comparison | Diffen

And about empathy being better than sympathy, I think that empathy is indeed ideal. But we live in a diverse society, and there are too many experiences to be lived, and many shoes in which you must be in order to empathise at a large scale. So I think that if we had to make the best of it with the time and tools we have a great F user would have to be sympathetic backed up by a whole diverse array of experiences to insure raw material for the empathy to kick in.


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## phoenixpinion (Dec 27, 2012)

However, now that I think about it, Fi does seem to be about sympathy, while Fe is about empathy. Sympathy is deeper, but empathy is more raw. It's still the same feeling function, but expressed in different directions. So I don't believe at all as some pointed out that Fi is about your own feelings while Fe is about other's feelings, it's about understanding as opposed to being considerate, however both are oriented towards others', as this is in the nature of the F function.

Fi: "I understand you."

Fe: "I'll make sure you are not left out."

As such, Fe often leads to physical action whereas this is rare for Fi (but not impossible, I guess it requires a bigger fuse to set off Fi, but it's also a bigger bomb). Over time this expresses itself in values (as T in principles), but these values themselves are not the function in action, merely a result of them being used constantly.

F is a proces (all cognitive functions are), hence F cannot be values, since values isn't a proces, it's a thing. So when T's want to develop their inferior F they read about how they need to be more "ethical". No they don't, they just need to lower their T to make room for F. They just need to tune into others more, the "natural way". The values come later, although I don't think they're necessary and I don't think they can ever override the T principles. That's also not the idea either.


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## TiNeSi (Jan 10, 2011)

I don't get the "empathy is better than sympathy" argument. I hate it when people think they understand and they don't. If I'm feeling bad, I'd rather be around someone who's sorry I'm feeling bad, than someone telling they know just how I feel.


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## phoenixpinion (Dec 27, 2012)

TiNeSi said:


> I don't get the "empathy is better than sympathy" argument. I hate it when people think they understand and they don't. If I'm feeling bad, I'd rather be around someone who's sorry I'm feeling bad, than someone telling they know just how I feel.


So I guess you like Fi over Fe.


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## TiNeSi (Jan 10, 2011)

Nope. I actually prefer Fe. (I'm INTP)


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## Coburn (Sep 3, 2010)

*no this is not possibleeeeeeeeee!!!!!*


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## Kizuna (Jul 30, 2011)

I actually think these are the same thing, only if you allow yourself to feel it _fully_, it is called empathy, and if you want to shield yourself from being truly overwhelmed, it is sympathy. I think both Fi and Fe use them like that. Depends on ego consciousness too, I guess. Sympathy is strongly associated with ego, imo. I have experienced this myself, the more I push back my ego needs and my "opinions" on things and people, the more I am open to pure, unfiltered empathy. So, it depends, I guess.


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## Aquarian (Jun 17, 2012)

DJeter said:


> I see this a lot around the forum, particularly in the thread for saying one verb per function. Fe users claim Fe is about empathy and Fi is about sympathy, while Fi users claim Fi is about empathy and Fe is about sympathy. This goes to the classic question of what's better: empathy or sympathy? Everyone says empathy, so they want their type to be the empathy capable type.
> 
> Sorry to burst the crypto-typist bubble. But both functions can aid in either empathy or sympathy. Remember: functions aren't behavior. Any type can do anything (except have a different functional stack).


I agree that both Fe and Fi can aid in either empathy or sympathy. 

I also find it amusing that it could be about what's better, presumably in terms of looking like a good person rather than the texture of lived experience. I think about "which is better" and my brain goes: _"Hmmm, maybe empathy is different from being empathic, but if it's not, sympathy would be much more tolerable IMO and thus 'better' as an actual experience. Unless one has a martyr complex and/or enjoys stress and pain._"


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## Beauty for Ashes (Feb 6, 2013)

I think it whether ANY type sympathizes or empathizes depends largely on the circumstances they have experienced. If a person has "been there," they would TEND toward empathy in that situation, whereas if they have not, it would be more of a sympathetic role.


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## shakti (Oct 10, 2012)

Being a Fe-dom, I'm always ready to offer my sympathy - a shoulder to cry on, advice, support, etc. This is what I live for and what I do best! 

However, I don't *feel* very much when I do this, i.e. it is difficult for me to truly empathise and feel what someone else is feeling. In situations that demand social support, I go about it in a mainly logical way - I say those things I feel would be the most beneficial in a given situation, give explanations based on my experiences and try to offer a constructive solution. Sometimes I feel it is difficult for me to *care* for someone's situation beyond this formal, mental level of troubleshooting and setting things straight, so I kind of envy Fi types in this sense! Fe doms and auxs have taught me a lot about "speaking from the heart", and I think a strong Fi and a strong Fe working together are a dream team when it comes to understanding people, empathising/sympathising and providing support and help


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## Griffith (Mar 26, 2012)

Fi/Fe both have empathy and sympathy, but I think Fe are the true empath, while Fi are the true feeler.Considered from an extreme point of view, Fe users are false feelers, and Fi types are false empaths.

The big difference between Fe&Fi is Fi types have feelings that are deeply anchored in the individual and resist external influences.Independant feelers relying on their own internal judgement.If two people are arguing on a moral issue, there's a good probability that Fi users will side with one of them, the one who feels just like them.Or nobody.Fe users who don't have that strong internal feeling compass, they detach themselves from their own feelings and try to understand the different emotional point of views, putting themselves into their shoes to understand why would someone feel this way, what is the core of their souls, what's their personal stories.Relative feelings (Fe) versus absolute feelings (Fi).Fe are like actors, great empaths but poor feelers(authenticity), because for Fe user, how the world feels holds a greater value than how you feel about something.Just like Te, Fe is concerned about bringing a positive or negative impact on the external world.


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## seapebble (Jul 19, 2013)

shakti said:


> Being a Fe-dom, I'm always ready to offer my sympathy - a shoulder to cry on, advice, support, etc. This is what I live for and what I do best!


By what definition of sympathy? This one?

Empathy vs Sympathy - Difference and Comparison | Diffen

Or perhaps Giffith's? (they are the same, I think)



Griffith said:


> Fi/Fe both have empathy and sympathy, but I think Fe are the true empath, while Fi are the true feeler.Considered from an extreme point of view, Fe users are false feelers, and Fi types are false empaths.
> 
> The big difference between Fe&Fi is Fi types have feelings that are deeply anchored in the individual and resist external influences.Independant feelers relying on their own internal judgement.If two people are arguing on a moral issue, there's a good probability that Fi users will side with one of them, the one who feels just like them.Or nobody.Fe users who don't have that strong internal feeling compass, they detach themselves from their own feelings and try to understand the different emotional point of views, putting themselves into their shoes to understand why would someone feel this way, what is the core of their souls, what's their personal stories.Relative feelings (Fe) versus absolute feelings (Fi).Fe are like actors, great empaths but poor feelers(authenticity), because for Fe user, how the world feels holds a greater value than how you feel about something.Just like Te, Fe is concerned about bringing a positive or negative impact on the external world.


I think you hit the nail on the head. No, I _feel_ you hit the nail on the head 

While I'm still researching this, I think that none is better than the other. Meaning Fi vs Fe, and sympathy vs empathy. So far I'm getting a vibe that Fi is most of the times related to sympathy and Fe is most of the times to empathy. I'll continue this post with this assumption.

Someone who sympathises can recognize the fact that someone else feels something and perhaps identify what the other person is feeling. Fi users want to have their own, individual, feelings and want other people to have their own feelings too. They're tolerant about what others feel. Live and let live. Feel and let feel. They point the way to individuality. An Fi user will want the other person to be well because they themselves want to be well.

One who empathises will feel what the other person is feeling, even though perhaps he could be oblivious to what the feeling is or to the fact they the other person effected their own way of feeling. Fe users consider everyone. They seem to want everybody to be well. It happens thay they put themselves in another man's position, and in a sense "feel" what the other person feels. And with that, running the risk of losing their own personal identity. They want to "recieve" emotion (or emotional vibe) from the enviroment (group, society) and in their turn might attempt to influence their enviroment.

It might seem that sympathy is more "egoistic" than empathy, or that empathy is more "preferable" but that's not true. They both have a dark side. Fi can be indifferent on what other feel and Fe could try to manipulate other's feelings to match his/her - and without even realizing it (I'm having some reservation on this last one, I'm still researching this).

None is better than the other. They are simply the *two sides of the coin*. We all need both, we all start with one.

It's starting to get apparent that I'm a strong Fe user because I want everyone around me happy, or at least not miserable. I've actually had an Fi-aux friend tell me the other day "dude, you're too focused on society". The same friend has many a times prompted me to express what I feel, which I don't do in order to "protect" the others from my intense emotions.

_By the way_, Giffith, I love your avatar. That character was crazy as hell, did whatever he likes, and that's why it fascinated me so much. He is definately an Fi user :wink: And I would say and Fi-dom or an Fi-aux. He had a definite emotional motive behind everything he did (cause chaos). An ISFP? There is certainly Se in there for all the crazy things he did. Perhaps ESFP?


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## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

Empathy/sympathy is pretty much irrelevant to type. That would relate to a person's morality, experiences, etc. I mean, not every thinking dom. type is necessarily mean, although it's common for them to have a rough streak around here. YOu might also get some very cold feeling types, according to Jung.


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## PaladinX (Feb 20, 2013)

This notion conflicts with everything I know about MBTI. Clearly you are wrong. Only one can sympathize and one can empathize, otherwise worlds collide.

World collision theory:







On a serious note, I would also like to add that Fe/Fi =/= caring.


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## Griffith (Mar 26, 2012)

@_seapebble_

I think everything you said is spot on.The only part where I may disagree is the personality of Joker(Heath Ledger).While I'm not totally excluding the possibility of Fi-aux, I think the joker is a Ti/Fe type.His logic is unpredictable, very personalised, chaotic.Does not rely on external logic or rules.Why Fe ? I've noticed that his feeling function operates directly on the external world, on people and society, using a large scale mode of judging(social>individual).He judges their values, think of them as a bunch of selfish hypocrits.Bringing chaos in gotham city is an act of generosity, ultimately it will reveal the cruel nature of human beings who are nothing but predatory animals.His madness is not justified by his personal feeling about things(Fi) and desire of efficiency/order/common rules(Te) -like batman-, but by distorded judgement on society's morals (Fe) and love for anarchy (Ti) ."the nature of humanity is evilish, let's embrace this evil and play by my rules".



> Joker : Don't talk like one of them. You're not, even if you'd like to be. To them, you're just a freak...like me. They need you right now...but when they don't...they'll cast you out like a leper. You see, their morals, their code...it's a bad joke, dropped at the first sign of trouble. They're only as good as the world allows them to be. I'll show you. When the chips are down, these...These civilized people...they'll eat each other. See, I'm not a monster. I'm just ahead of the curve.


In my opinion, this is an example of the dark side of Fe.Instead of bringing harmony, the anti-Fe connects with people on a feeling level only to bring them negative emotions like despair.Everything the joker does seems motivated by the desire to terrorise people, fill the world with chaos and disharmony -on purpose- because this is how the world should feel.Inside he looks empty, I haven't really seen any complexity of feeling.What feels good or bad for him he doesn't care as much as what feels good and -especially- bad for the world.His depth comes from his thoughts, his independant holistic vision of reality(Ni?Ti?).I'm guessing ExTP here.Probably ESTP(tert/inf may explain his twisted Fe+Ni).ENTP is possible.Or a very unhealthy ENFJ.

Just my guess.


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## cudibloop (Oct 11, 2012)

Fe - "I empathize with you because we're all human and its the right thing to do"

Fi - "I empathize with you because I understand what you've gone through/your story ​touched me"


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## Griffith (Mar 26, 2012)

My mother is an ISFP and a type 2.She's very funny to observe, because she's all about pleasing people and very generous but at the same time she is not an expert at knowing exactly how people feel.Like when I'm not talking(tired or busy), she never stops asking me if I'm angry with her or sad, because this is exactly how she behaves when she feels sad or angry.


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