# Ti-Se vs Ti-Ne



## Bhathaway (Dec 17, 2016)

How does the thought process differ between Ti-Se and Ti-Ne when analyzing a problem. How do you know when you are using Ne and Se? I struggle with Se because many describe it as in the moment observation of what is, and an imperative to interact with what is observed in order to achieve maximum pleasure. How would Se be used analytically(as in, how does Se assist Ti on non physical problems/analysis?)


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## Handsome Dyke (Oct 4, 2012)

I don't see why Se would come into play at all in a non-physical situation.


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## Turi (May 9, 2017)

I'm pretty iffy on functions in general, but here's how I see it - take this with a grain of salt:

Se, when engaging in non-physical problem-solving and/or analysis is, as it should be understood as anyway - a perceiving function, i.e an information gathering process.

So when the Se user is unable to solve a problem in their head, they will gather external information in order to solve it - i.e flesh out the 'big picture' or develop an understanding of how to solve the problem, or analyse a situation.

It's truly that simple.

Here's a thread I created that touches on this:
http://personalitycafe.com/cognitive-functions/1191386-smokescreen-perceptions.html

If you consider the 'problem' to be the 'smokescreen', then it'll all fall into place.


An example of Se solving a non-physical problem would be perhaps maths - say you're forced to solve a maths problem, and you don't recognise the formula - can't find any patterns either - Se will gather the external information required, in order to solve it.

What this might manifest as, is googling the answer - sure, it's 'wrong' - but it's one way Se could gather information to solve the problem.
It might feel like a compulsion to learn what kind of formula this is - so they'll jump online and try to find out what is happening, and understand the whole problem from the bottom up, and then solve the problem - this might look like somebody deciding to learn calculus just to solve a problem.

Se is no more than an information gathering function, and the information it seeks to gather, is real, usable, useful, relevant to the situation and sourced externally i.e outside of ones own body.


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## calicobts (Sep 12, 2017)

If you compare James Bond (ISTP/Ti-Se) vs Dexter Morgan (INTP/Ti-Ne. From the tv show Dexter), you'll be able to see the difference.

James Bond- He's very analytical and is able to size up a situation very easily. His Se is hyper-aware in that, he knows how to adjust to changing circumstances (something an intuitive would find challenging) and environment. Which is characteristic that secret agents must possess in order to avoid life/death situations. His Se is also indulgent. Bond likes his fancy cars, women, and traveling.

Dexter Morgan- He's also very analytical like Bond. However, Dexter requires preparation ahead of time before entering his physical environment and takes longer to find solutions to problems (tertiary Si). Because of his Ti-Ne dynamic, Dexter is prone to over-thinking and getting stuck in his head a lot. Which causes quiet a few problems.


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## Turi (May 9, 2017)

calicobts said:


> If you compare James Bond (ISTP/Ti-Se) vs Dexter Morgan (INTP/Ti-Ne. From the tv show Dexter), you'll be able to see the difference.
> 
> James Bond- He's very analytical and is able to size up a situation very easily. His Se is hyper-aware in that, he knows how to adjust to changing circumstances (something an intuitive would find challenging) and environment. Which is characteristic that secret agents must possess in order to avoid life/death situations. His Se is also indulgent. Bond likes his fancy cars, women, and traveling.
> 
> Dexter Morgan- He's also very analytical like Bond. However, Dexter requires preparation ahead of time before entering his physical environment and takes longer to find solutions to problems (tertiary Si). Because of his Ti-Ne dynamic, Dexter is prone to over-thinking and getting stuck in his head a lot. Which causes quiet a few problems.


Dexter INTP?
He's an ISTJ, in my opinion.


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## Bhathaway (Dec 17, 2016)

Turi said:


> I'm pretty iffy on functions in general, but here's how I see it - take this with a grain of salt:
> 
> Se, when engaging in non-physical problem-solving and/or analysis is, as it should be understood as anyway - a perceiving function, i.e an information gathering process.
> 
> ...


How would this compare to an Ne user? Cognitively what might a train of judgement and perception look like of Ti-Ne vs Ti-Se. Would an Ne user be less likely to google the answer since it is intuition?

Edit: similarly, let's say we are working on a Math problem. Their Ti hits a block and therefore needs to information to grant a new insight, both Ne and Se are extraverted functions. Se will look around for data, as will Ne. What is the differences in data that they are spotting? Will Ne be looking for patterns/possibilities in their external environment that relate to the situation of the problem while Se is looking for simple facts/physical things around them?

Edit 2: The reason I ask is that both are external functions. There must be some difference in what exactly Ne is seeing in the moment that Se doesn't for the problem. Ne is seeing possibilities that their environment holds while Se is seeing what is(?????), and they then have an impetus to interact with that environment? Se seems like it would be incredible irrelevant for non physical problems, while intuition would grant pattern seeking.

What would Ti-Ni vs Ti-Ne look like?


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## Bhathaway (Dec 17, 2016)

Benty Badass said:


> I don't see why Se would come into play at all in a non-physical situation.


How would you compare Ti-Ne vs Ti-Ni then?


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## Reila (Jan 17, 2017)

Turi said:


> Dexter INTP?
> He's an ISTJ, in my opinion.


What are you on about? Kewl characters can't be SJs!


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## Turi (May 9, 2017)

Reila said:


> What are you on about? Kewl characters can't be SJs!


They're all SJs!
Phil from EastEnders? SJ.
Liam Neeson in Taken? SJ.
Captain America? SJ.


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## Stevester (Feb 28, 2016)

Yeah, typing Dexter is always subject of controversy, but I do believe he's ISTJ. And there's zero bias because I gave up on that series after 2 seasons. His calculated, detailed and ritual murders + methodical ''get it done'' approach suggest Si/Te. A lot of people type him as INTJ, but have absolutely no argument to back up Dom Ni other than _''He's a serial killer on a mission, therefore INTJ''_.


anyhow...


I find that Ne/Ti and Se/Ti is very easy to tell apart.

Ne/Ti (or the reverse) is really what people imagine when then think of Ti. In that it breaks systems apart for their understanding, then tries to build it back up in a myriad of different creative ways. It's because of that combination that NTPs are notoriously known for being trolls, purposely arguing for the more controversial side of things, contradicting their own beliefs etc. It's often exaggerated in online descriptions and unfortunately every fictional character who blurts out smartass retorts is automatically typed NTP without a second thought. But there is definitely some truth to it. Ne/Ti not only wants to see both sides of the coin, they want to know the materials used in it's fabrication, how much it's really worth, etc. In a nutshell Ne/Ti wants to leave absolutely no stones unturned and peaking under every single one of them, often only for their own curiosity, not even to solve an immediate problem. Leaving potential truth hidden from an NTP is the bane of their existence.

Se/Ti (or the reverse) is a whole other thing. It's the epitome of ''street smarts'' In other words, how does one strategically get what they want in the current situation. Therefore, it acts WAY fast, unlike Ne/Ti which can analyze all day and then some. Se/Ti is all about quick fixes and hence can often be confused with Te because it ''attacks'' the problem. It's also why Se/Ti is often linked with athleticism, because together it creates the sharpest spacio-temporal awareness of any function combo. It can just ''calculate'' things in real-time that most of us would need to sit back and think about for hours. Someone throws a football, Se/Ti reacts in a second to place the body and grabbing motion in an optimal way that the subject needs. Have you ever been to the gym with an STP....it's a fucking nightmare! Their laid back persona becomes a calculated drill sergeant nazi. _''YOU HAVE TO FLEX YOUR BICEPS AT A 85 DESGREE ANGLE, DO IT AGAIN!!''_. And no one actually thought them that shit, they just....KNOW how the body works and how to get optimal results. It's also responsible for the ''mechanic'' stereotype, because unlike Ne/Ti, it deals with the concrete rather than abstract, so it identifies the concrete problem and instinctively knows how to fix it. BUT the downfall of Se/Ti is that by being so sharp in the moment, it often dismisses potential fallouts afterwards (Low Ni). When an Ne/Ti fixes something (or a situation), they usually make sure it won't break again further down the line thanks to lower Si that does not want to go through this again.


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## Bhathaway (Dec 17, 2016)

@Stevester

I think where I really seem to get caught up with the NTP curiosity thing. I relate pretty hard to Ti. My mind really does work like logic statements. The thinking is very linear in that I look for the logical conclusions of a statement and what it means followed by repeating the process until either a step is simply too much thinking to commit too or it isn't useful anymore(I found my answer). An example would be like learning about global warming's processes and getting a general gyst of how all the major variables work together, but then only looking to understand those smaller elements when asked. What is important to me is understanding how the variables work together and then developing a cohesive and holistic understanding until enough is done that it is self supporting. I just need enough of the system to understand how the major pieces fit together so that I can alter them to get the desired outcome. Specific occurrences in history don't interest me(since the only meaning you can draw from it is really what you already know on the macro level with the variables and concepts). The logic isn't stagnant in time either, I can understand how the variables will change over time within the system. An example would be like this : hypothetically you have two power systems A and B. A is at 49% overall power, B is at 51% overall power. A and B interact against one another, therefore over time B will become 100% and A will approach 0%, therefore we can treat B as being at 100% and then moving forward with logic from there. I often find others don't do this and it confuses me because it seems natural. Another example I have is when I was thinking about solving problems and how it relates to people that enjoy problem solving(like me sometimes). While I was thinking of how to have an enjoyable life I thought "well eventually robots are going to be able to do everything so they will solve all of the problems, so if we just assume that all problems are solved and then work on the solution for finding enjoyment, it will solve the problem for me and will also solve it for future problem solvers. I do this ALOT when looking at problems. A sort of timeless perspective I guess, treating the problem as though it exists throughout time and seeing how the development of society would affect the problem and it's parameters. I find I am VASTLY better at breaking down problems than almost anything else. I also find I provide examples to others when I am describing a problem, but I rarely ask for examples myself. I'm just interested in the concepts behind what they are saying(also why I zone out of conversations about events, as there is rarely any meaning to draw especially when they add in details like color).

NTPs are described as LOVING information, which is not the case for me. I don't like learning things that I don't think I will ever use. The curiosity isn't really there. My brother will look up random shit in space, but why would I lol? I'm never going to use it, it doesn't impact my life whatsoever. I think it's lack of usefulness almost brings my enjoyment down when reading useless information.

Edit: I don't relate to Ne's scatter brain or Ni's aha moments. My thinking actually always seem incredibly focused when looking at problems. If I don't get an intuition or the answer practically immediately, then I will actually have a hard time with the problem because thinking of different things to "try" never seems to work for me. My brain isn't like that. When I think of "just trying things" I just think it is a waste of time and will give up in frustration. It's also why I struggle to repair electronics. Most of the time though, I will know what to do. I work VERYYYY well on teams because others can offer up ideas and I always know whether it can be done or not, regardless of if it's physical or abstract. When I "Think" about something, it is conscious. I know every step and it will told to someone else in a step by step logical proof. I can't ever explain those intuitions on knowing something will work though. I can't tell if it's just a conglomerate of past experience and a quick explanation, or if it really is just a non-thought knowing.


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## calicobts (Sep 12, 2017)

Turi said:


> Dexter INTP?
> He's an ISTJ, in my opinion.


I could see why you think ISTJ, but through my point of view I see so much Ti and Fe in him. 

His Ti-Fe doesn't like to do anything unless it makes sense to him. This is why he can "fake" emotions but not fit in socially with his coworkers and peers. Also his career choice is very Ti-driven, being a blood spatter analyst I don't think Te would naturally enjoy that kind of work. But back to his Fe, throughout the series it can be seen that Dexter wishes to be close to others but his social awkwardness keeps him from that (inferior Fe). While James Bond has Ti-Fe as does Dexter (Imo) I feel that because he is a sensor (and not have gone through the same trauma as Dexter) he is more able to be socially accepted than his Intuitive counterpart. 

Dexter's Ne, when investigating a crime scene, Dexter *enjoys* all of the strange findings that others may feel are revolting. His Ne is what also leads him to want to be a better killer and have the appearance of a normal person. This is why he decides befriend Trinity and involve himself in other situations like this. 

His tert-Si is present in that he has always followed a strict code of killing. If something interrupts this, he'll likely freak out or take longer to find a solution. 

And again his Fe thinks the best thing to do keep the ones he loves the most safe, is by keeping them in the dark. Before killing his victims, Dexter will usually have a conversation with them and show his "true" self. He'll show them the harm they've caused to others and society as a whole. There are many times where Dexter struggles with doing what will make him happy and "human" versus doing what's right for everyone else. An example of this, is with his brother Brian Moser. Brian(Fi user) wants Dexter to join him killing innocent people also for the pleasure of it. Dexter struggles with this, but at the the end he decides to kill his brother because Deb's life was in danger. 

I know some may disagree in typing Dexter due to him being a sociopath. However, he isn't one (but his brother is). In the show, it's hinted at and questioned many times. He just has a severe form of PTSD from what I remember.


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