# Enneagram Integration Misconception



## MrShatter (Sep 28, 2010)

*From Enneagram Explorations:
*(Facebook post June 8th 2014, 5:00 pm)

 The wing types and lines of connection are essential as the enneagram is a dynamic trialectic system. 

 The only misinformation was the teaching that we move to the lines of connection in integration/disintegration or stress/security. The side note here is that Naranjo stated in 1996 that he was misquoted when teaching his hypothesis on the arrows in a early SAT(Seekers After Truth) group in the 1970s. This misquote went around the world. He corrected it in his first Enneagram Intensive in Bolder Colorado in 1996 stating he never meant to suggest that you move to one line positively (integration or security)and the other negatively (disintegrate/stress) but rather that you move to both lines of connection all of the time. He taught about the wings as well...that your type is simply the tension between your two wings.

I researched this with clients and found it to be true. I then met David and he found this pattern in 1996 separate from knowing me or Naranjo's teachings. Together, we developed it further through research with clients and call it Wing Theory.

For example, as a 5 with the 549 tritype, we found as a 5 you are trying to individuate and be a unique individual (4) while simultaneously trying to match and be accepted by your peers (6).... Social situations are times of great uncertainty so the 549 chooses to stand back and observe before attempting to join but always feels that they didn't get the same rule book on social relating that others did. So, the 5 feels trapped and struggles with taking action and initiating conversation.

With Wing Theory, you can break up the this pattern by moving to the high side of your lines of connection. The 5 line to the high side of 7 gives new possibilities, ease and right work and the high side of the 7 line to 8 gives confidence, action and higher truth.

We all have access to all 9 types but the question is when and how, and in what order? When we move to our lines of connection we do not become those types as our dominant type remains in charge... but rather we pick up the qualities of the type in our line of connection manifesting the law of 3. 

The key is the "specialty" or focus of attention created by the intersection of the 3 types in the Tritype. With 459 they all concur that it is essential to stand back and be reflective and introspective before engaging with others. The overall desire of the 459 Tritype is for others to move towards them in social situations and make them feel more comfortable sharing as they feel inhibited and do not jump into conversations. The false belief is that others are more at ease with social relating. What is often missed is that many Tritypes move towards others and engage in conversation because they themselves feel so ill at ease if they don't....and sometimes they find they are so nervous they cannot stop talking... especially the extroverted social 6.


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## enneathusiast (Dec 15, 2012)

So to summarize, the Fauvres believe:

the arrows on the inner lines don't mean anything
your type is the tension between the two wings
you can break up the pattern caused by this tension by moving to the high side of either type pointed to by the inner lines
and then something about a "specialty" or focus of attention created by your tritype

I guess your point is that the following idea is non-sense: movement with the arrows is negative and against the arrows is positive (which discounts the idea of directions of integration/disintegration). 

I agree that it's non-sense. Sounds like someone saw that there were arrows on the inner lines and attempted to assign some meaning to them. They tell people that they're "experts" so people believe it. Sounds like the majority of the theories proposed about the Enneagram types.


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

@_enneathusiast_
What's your take on integration/disintegration lines or stress/security points? 


I have long agreed with N there about moving to both lines of connections minus the positive/negative connotation, hence the arrows being meaningless. I'd like more of an elaboration on the moving to both connection points "all the time". 

RH say some shit on their website about the movement being lateral or that an average X would move to Average Dis point, which is supposed to act as an escape valve of sorts apparently to prevent one from sliding down to lower 'health levels', and average X would move to Average integration point and so forth. So, it sounds ridiculous as per my take on their little blurb. It seems like they're saying, following the lateral movement theory, that a 'healthy' X would move to 'healthy' Dis. point, considering healthy types also undergo increasing stress. Counter-intuitive much. Btw, I am very open to being corrected on this one. Their stuff on this subject strikes me as convoluted.


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## enneathusiast (Dec 15, 2012)

Cosmic Orgasm said:


> @_enneathusiast_
> What's your take on integration/disintegration lines or stress/security points?


I think the Enneagram symbol shows you patterns between types that you can further explore to discover whether the patterns have any value, but the patterns or relationships between the types have to be consistent if you want to generalize a meaning to all nine types. For instance, you could look at the connections from 8, 9, 1, 3, and 6 (a movement between all three centers) to say they represent something similar or look at 2, 4, 5,and 7 to say those connections represent something similar (a movement within the same center and a movement to one other center), but you can't really say the connections for all nine numbers have the same movement or meaning. Using the arrows is just arbitrary - I've heard somewhere that the arrows used by Ichazo actually pointed in the opposite direction.

I guess what I'm saying is that you can find meaning to the inner lines but not the same meaning for all nine types. Forget the arrows.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Cosmic Orgasm said:


> @_enneathusiast_
> What's your take on integration/disintegration lines or stress/security points?
> 
> 
> ...


I do think the disintegration and integration points have a point in that we do appear more as our integration or disintegration points depending on where we are in terms of health but overall, especially in average types, we tend to embody both points. I have spoken to several people who have admitted to using their disintegration points as crutches during severe times of stress. Which is to say, they can still embody the negative and positive aspects of both types during any point of health, but unhealthy individuals when very stressed do tend to as a whole, seemingly fall on their disintegration point as a coping mechanism. 

So I honestly think it's more that neither idea is particularly true but that both are to varying degrees. The arrows aren't meaningless, they embody the law of 3, but the question is more about their manifestations.


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## Blystone (Oct 11, 2012)

MrShatter said:


> We all have access to all 9 types but the question is when and how, and in what order? When we move to our lines of connection we do not become those types as our dominant type remains in charge... but rather we pick up the qualities of the type in our line of connection _*manifesting the law of 3*_.


New Agers are so naive..


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## Sixty Nein (Feb 13, 2011)

I think the lines merely draws out relationship points from one type to another. Say for instance the type 6 and the type 3. These types are generally related to each other, because they are at the center of their respective enneagram types. Their nature resolves around being overly adaptive, and that their neurosis can have links to each other. However it is sort of silly to say that during times of stress, that the type 6 actually behaves in a way that is more resembling of the 3 or the 9. They will just act like a 6 in distress, which can manifest in multiple ways.

I do think there is a relationship between all of the points of the enneagram, but you do not embody all of them. You generally view holiness strictly through the lens of your enneagram type. Even if it's manifestation can at face value look more like anothers.


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## Blystone (Oct 11, 2012)

Necrophilous said:


> I think the lines merely draws out relationship points from one type to another. Say for instance the type 6 and the type 3. These types are generally related to each other, because they are at the center of their respective enneagram types. Their nature resolves around being overly adaptive, and that their neurosis can have links to each other. However it is sort of silly to say that during times of stress, that the type 6 actually behaves in a way that is more resembling of the 3 or the 9. They will just act like a 6 in distress, which can manifest in multiple ways.
> 
> I do think there is a relationship between all of the points of the enneagram, but you do not embody all of them. You generally view holiness strictly through the lens of your enneagram type. Even if it's manifestation can at face value look more like anothers.


Of all the people on this board, I think you're the only one that's really understanding the fundamentals of the Enneagram.


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## Sixty Nein (Feb 13, 2011)

JSRS01 said:


> Of all the people on this board, I think you're the only one that's really understanding the fundamentals of the Enneagram.


Thank you. I still don't really understand the occult etiology behind the enneagram, and it's actually useful for but eh.


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## MrShatter (Sep 28, 2010)

Necrophilous said:


> Thank you. I still don't really understand the occult etiology behind the enneagram, and it's actually useful for but eh.


Get into it. 



JSRS01 said:


> New Agers are so naive..


The 963 is based around an unconsciousness-grip-craving reaction to a 'loss of enlightenment,' i.e. An existential fear of nothingness cured by faith, love and hope. The law of three relates to triadic relationships, e.g. id-ego-superego and body/mind/heart. Noticed, not applied.


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## Blystone (Oct 11, 2012)

MrShatter said:


> The 963 is based around an unconsciousness-grip-craving reaction to a 'loss of enlightenment' i.e. A fear of nothing cured by faith, love and hope. The law of three relates to triadic relationships, e.g. id-ego-superego (body/mind/heart). Noticed, not applied.


In the Enneagram of Personality, 963 could just as easily be 123 or 147 or 258. While Gurdjieff's Enneagram very well may represent the laws of 3 and 7, by attributing specific personality traits and identities to the numbers and points of the Enneagram, as Ichazo has done, the meaning of Gurdjieff's Enneagram is lost and is no longer applicable. When I see New Agers like the Fauvres combining Gurdjieff's views with Ichazo's arbitrary mapping of the personality types, asserting: "the enneagram symbol represents the law of ,0, 1, 3 and 7" and "The hexad types reflect movement and are variations of the core types types of 3, 6 and 9." I can't help but view them as fanciful and naive.


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## MrShatter (Sep 28, 2010)

JSRS01 said:


> In the Enneagram of Personality, 963 could just as easily be 123 or 147 or 258.


Just as easily yes, but that means nothing... it's still an 'off-base' distortion.
(Sociopaths don't register complex emotions as "difficult to read.")




> While Gurdjieff's Enneagram very well may represent the laws of 3 and 7, by attributing specific personality traits and identities to the numbers and points of the Enneagram, as Ichazo has done, the meaning of Gurdjieff's Enneagram *is lost and is no longer applicable.*


Elaborate.



> When I see New Agers like the Fauvres combining Gurdjieff's views with Ichazo's arbitrary mapping of the personality types, asserting: "the enneagram symbol represents the law of ,0, 1, 3 and 7" and "The hexad types reflect movement and are variations of the core types types of 3, 6 and 9." I can't help but view them as fanciful and naive.


Why not? I don't feel like Fauvres embrace new age, strictly, but notice that 248175 are closer to the triad borders (and coincide)... These types don't purely correspond with the essential response because they find a (misguided?) additional safety with unrelated securities, [e.g. the 5w wouldn't 'channel' the heart(/love) adequately.]

While the weird (vague) law of #(?) (symbolic reference) seems baseless, I think it a natural human fixation rather than interjected mysticism. (Don't attack the "law of #", attack the logic please.)

[If you notice the 963 [Actually] "healthiest tri-type," they tend to reach realistic conclusions with the least difficulty.]

(Versus, you know, 947, triple _fantasy_. xD)


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## Blystone (Oct 11, 2012)

MrShatter said:


> Just as easily yes, but that means nothing... it's still an 'off-base' distortion.


My point was to show that the inner triangle, which the Fauvres claim represents the law of three, could have any of the other types attributed to it. 369 isn't special. 



> (Sociopaths don't register complex emotions as "difficult to read.")


Relevance? 



> Elaborate.


Gurdjieff was an occultist. His ideas were mystical. His Enneagram was a tool to recognize and observe the effects of Triamazikamno and Heptaparaparshinokh (crazy names, I know). When Ichazo chose to assign personality types to the Enneagram and use the Enneagram as a personality system, he voided those principles. 



> Why not? I don't feel like Fauvres embrace new age, strictly, but notice that 248175 are closer to the triad borders (and coincide)... These types don't purely correspond with the essential response because they find a (misguided?) additional safety with unrelated securities, [e.g. the 5w wouldn't 'channel' the heart(/love) adequately.]


I'm not sure what you're trying to say. 



> While the weird (vague) law of #(?) (symbolic reference) seems baseless, I think it a natural human fixation rather than interjected mysticism. (Don't attack the "law of #", attack the logic please.)


I'm not saying the law of 3 is false, I'm saying it doesn't apply to the Enneagram the way the Fauvres like to pretend it does. 



> [If you notice the 963 [Actually] "healthiest tri-type," they tend to reach realistic conclusions with the least difficulty.]
> 
> (Versus, you know, 947, triple _fantasy_. xD)


I have no idea what this is supposed to mean.


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## MrShatter (Sep 28, 2010)

JSRS01 said:


> My point was to show that the inner triangle, which the Fauvres claim represents the law of three, could have any of the other types attributed to it. 369 isn't special.


Relevance? = Parallel explanation. 

Nobody said special... just the more un-distorted. The inner triangle is specific _— It articulates_. 
_"[If you notice the 963 [Actually] "healthiest tri-type," they tend to reach realistic conclusions with the least difficulty.]"

_963 will be the most practical, so to speak. 


timeless said:


> You'll notice that 3, 6, and 9 are id, superego, and ego types. The Type 3 element is constantly seeking to improve themselves, the Type 6 element is constantly seeking to improve their superego, and Type 9 is constantly seeking to mediate themselves. In a way, this is the healthiest tritype in Freudian terms.





JSRS01 said:


> Gurdjieff was an occultist. His ideas were mystical. His Enneagram was a tool to recognize and observe the effects of Triamazikamno and Heptaparaparshinokh (crazy names, I know). When Ichazo chose to assign personality types to the Enneagram and *use the Enneagram as a personality system, he voided those principles.*


How did he void? Do you not believe in personality types? Or just in the supposed 'strict essenstial source' nature of them? 
(Which I disagree Ichazo implied... he was a 9* afterall... very fluid and incorporating/inclusive. He likely synthesized Gurdjieff's perspective, personally; the numbers are only symbols.) 
*Not meant as a strict type case* 

The Enneagram remains mystical, in my opinion.



> I'm not saying the law of 3 is false, I'm saying it doesn't apply to the Enneagram the way the Fauvres like to pretend it does.


What do they pretend and how would you fix it?



MrShatter said:


> _Why not? I don't feel like Fauvres embrace new age, strictly, but notice that 248175 are closer to the triad borders (and coincide)... These types don't purely correspond with the essential response because they find a (misguided?) additional safety with unrelated securities, [e.g. the 5w wouldn't 'channel' the heart(/love) adequately.]_


I mean that if 4 is a tension between 3 and 5... 5 doesn't seek love, and so the 4 is relying on an inadequate expression.


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