# Do any pre-evolved humans still exist?



## Swordsman of Mana

by pre-evolved, I mean one of the following:
- **** sapiens that lack various modern traits (such as a more archaic facial/skull structure, prominent brow ridges, lacking of various genes that allowed us to expand past hunter gatherer societies)
- archaic subspecies of **** sapiens (such as **** sapiens idaltu)
- primitive living humans who are NOT **** sapiens (such as **** florisiensis/hobbits, neanderthals or the denisova hominin)
personally, I would LOVE the opportunity to observe or interact with a pre-evolved human XD

PS: if big foot exists (or if there are several species) he is likely descended from australopithecus or paranthropus, but for all intents and purposes, lets limit this conversation to the genus ****


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## dalsgaard

Unfortunately, they are all gone. But there are plenty of apes. I've read somewhere that recent genetic studies suggest, that our species did in fact copulate with neanderthals, and that some people of european descent have a couple of the characteristics.

The chinese beleives that they are directly descendended from **** Erectus, but as far as I know there is little evidence to support that.

Ironically though, I'm one of the people who have some of the trademark neanderthal characteristics, namely a prominent brow-ridge and a bump on the back of my skull (Called an occipital bun), which does imply neanderthal ancestry. Most people's skull are rounded, but I have the same feature on the back of my head as the neanderthal skull in this picture:
http://leseyzies-tourist.info/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/neanderthal_skulls_compare.gif

EDIT: Come to think of it, I also have a projecting face. Actually, I'm rather neanderthal in apperance in a lot of respects! lol


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## Diogenes

Yes. 
A lot of them roam this site.


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## Jason Chan

Every one of us is not normal in the eyes of someone else. all of us are apes


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## Swordsman of Mana

Jason Chan said:


> Every one of us is not normal in the eyes of someone else. all of us are apes


this isn't about "normal", I'm talking about people of potentially different species or who retain unique evolutionary vestiges from ancestral species or from genetic admixture with other hominids (ex: some believe that asperger's syndrome was actually introduced to our gene pool via neanderthals).


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## blackacidlizzard

Evidence is that non-African **** sapiens have Neanderthal ancestry while African **** sapiens do not.

Not an answer to your specific question, but related.

(before anyone bothers to state the obvious, yes I know that there is a such thing as mixing, ie, we call many people who have non-African (and therefore Neanderthal) ancestry "African")


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## Ramysa

Swordsman of Mana said:


> by pre-evolved, I mean one of the following:
> - **** sapiens that lack various modern traits (such as a more archaic facial/skull structure, prominent brow ridges, lacking of various genes that allowed us to expand past hunter gatherer societies)
> - archaic subspecies of **** sapiens (such as **** sapiens idaltu)
> - primitive living humans who are NOT **** sapiens (such as **** florisiensis/hobbits, neanderthals or the denisova hominin)
> personally, I would LOVE the opportunity to observe or interact with a pre-evolved human XD
> 
> PS: if big foot exists (or if there are several species) he is likely descended from australopithecus or paranthropus, but for all intents and purposes, lets limit this conversation to the genus ****



Sure! My neighbor is one of them . Looks like a cave man, has only one brow , walks a bit funny ....like...with his shoulders towards the front and makes weird noises thru the nose. I think his brain is pretty undeveloped too coz everytime I tell him to stop parking in my place he just nods and makes this "hmr.." noise ( I'm always assuming he agrees ) but still parks in my place. So where do u want it? I can put it in a bag and mail it to u for study . Do u want him all together or is it ok if I send u one piece at a time? And if i'm wrong about him being Neanderthal .. well... it was in the name of science !


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## Swordsman of Mana

dalsgaard said:


> Unfortunately, they are all gone. But there are plenty of apes. I've read somewhere that recent genetic studies suggest, that our species did in fact copulate with neanderthals, and that some people of european descent have a couple of the characteristics.
> 
> The chinese beleives that they are directly descendended from **** Erectus, but as far as I know there is little evidence to support that.
> 
> Ironically though, I'm one of the people who have some of the trademark neanderthal characteristics, namely a prominent brow-ridge and a bump on the back of my skull (Called an occipital bun), which does imply neanderthal ancestry. Most people's skull are rounded, but I have the same feature on the back of my head as the neanderthal skull in this picture:
> http://leseyzies-tourist.info/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/neanderthal_skulls_compare.gif
> 
> EDIT: Come to think of it, I also have a projecting face. Actually, I'm rather neanderthal in apperance in a lot of respects! lol


I have a large nose and a bit of an occipital bun myself, but I don't think they're inherented from neanderthals (though it would be cool if they were. being of european descent, I probably have about 1-4% neanderthal DNA)

I'm not 100% sure they've all died out 
- there is a whole range of potential human evolution across asia that is largely undocumented. for example, **** florisiensis (hobbits) are believed by many to be descended from australopithecus (based on the ape-like wrists, small brain size and thick leg bones), but no pre **** erectus bones have been found in asia. in fact 
- a large portion of asia is either very sparsely populated or not populated at all by modern humans, which could leave space for such a specimen to survive
- most non Africans share approx. 1-4% of their DNA with neanderthals and many south east asian populations share DNA with the hominin found in a site at Denisova cave in Russia. I'd like to know if any phenotypes of these species survive in any modern humans.
- **** erectus and **** heidelbergensis both populated much larger territories and had much greater population densities than neanderthals. what happened to them?
- the link and picture below are of the Red Deer Cave people, dated at around 14,000-11,000 years ago. clearly they don't look like modern humans
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Deer_Cave_people


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## dalsgaard

Swordsman of Mana said:


> this isn't about "normal", I'm talking about people of potentially different species or who retain unique evolutionary vestiges from ancestral species or from genetic admixture with other hominids (ex: some believe that asperger's syndrome was actually introduced to our gene pool via neanderthals).


This is interesting. I have been diagnosed with aspergers, and I've heard say that many who score high on the AQ test also have a few of the cranial characteristics. I'd love to know more about the correlation between these features, and possible neanderthal ancestry. I also know, that some people may share 15% or even more of their genetic material with neanderthals. Here's a picture of me in profile. As you can see, I have a very pronounced occipital bun. Is yours as pronounced as mine?

http://i.imgur.com/J9luv.jpg


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## Swordsman of Mana

dalsgaard said:


> This is interesting. I have been diagnosed with aspergers, and I've heard say that many who score high on the AQ test also have a few of the cranial characteristics. I'd love to know more about the correlation between these features, and possible neanderthal ancestry. I also know, that some people may share 15% or even more of their genetic material with neanderthals. Here's a picture of me in profile. As you can see, I have a very pronounced occipital bun. Is yours as pronounced as mine?
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/J9luv.jpg


I haven't had short hair in awhile, so I couldn't tell you, but you could read up on the possible aspergers/neanderthal connection here
The Neanderthal theory of autism, Asperger and ADHD


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## dalsgaard

Swordsman of Mana said:


> I'm not 100% sure they've all died out


I really hope you're right!



> - there is a whole range of potential human evolution across asia that is largely undocumented. for example, **** florisiensis (hobbits) are believed by many to be descended from australopithecus (based on the ape-like wrists, small brain size and thick leg bones), but no pre **** erectus bones have been found in asia. in fact
> - a large portion of asia is either very sparsely populated or not populated at all by modern humans, which could leave space for such a specimen to survive


Add to the fact, that a lot of researchers in anthropology and archeology argue, that a lot of these variations on the **** genus would be virtually indistinguishable from the cro-magnon if raised in modern surroundings. But don't you think it's a bit unlikely that they'd survive in an isolated pocket, without any intervention or outside influence?


> - most non Africans share approx. 1-4% of their DNA with neanderthals and many south east asian populations share DNA with the hominin found in a site at Denisova cave in Russia. I'd like to know if any phenotypes of these species survive in any modern humans.
> - **** erectus and **** heidelbergensis both populated much larger territories and had much greater population densities than neanderthals. what happened to them?


You're right! I remember now. They traveled eastward, and then they basically disappeared without a trace. Is that correct?



> - the link and picture below are of the Red Deer Cave people, dated at around 14,000-11,000 years ago. clearly they don't look like modern humans
> Red Deer Cave people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Awesome. I want to read up on this more. Lets keep this thread going.


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## Swordsman of Mana

dalsgaard said:


> I really hope you're right!


it would be so great to study one! ^_^

Add to the fact, that a lot of researchers in anthropology and archeology argue, that a lot of these variations on the **** genus would be virtually indistinguishable from the cro-magnon if raised in modern surroundings. But don't you think it's a bit unlikely that they'd survive in an isolated pocket, without any intervention or outside influence?



> You're right! I remember now. They traveled eastward, and then they basically disappeared without a trace. Is that correct?
> Awesome. I want to read up on this more. Lets keep this thread going.


most of the documentaries I've watched left me thinking
- "what happened to **** erectus in Asia? 
- "why doesn't anyone ever talk about **** heidelbergensis, our DIRECT ancestors?"
though you might enjoy this one on Hobbits/**** florisiensis which goes into the theory of it being descended from australopithecus






also, not sure if you're familiar with the denisova hominin 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denisova_hominin


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## sprinkles

Swordsman of Mana said:


> Add to the fact, that a lot of researchers in anthropology and archeology argue, that a lot of these variations on the **** genus would be virtually indistinguishable from the cro-magnon if raised in modern surroundings. But don't you think it's a bit unlikely that they'd survive in an isolated pocket, without any intervention or outside influence?


Actually the inverse might true in modern times - they'd probably be _more_ likely to survive in isolated pockets.

The Jarawa people for example. There's only about 400 of them and they have their own little enclave community, and rejected outside contact. A trunk road was built in the 90's and some of the Jarawa opened up to outsiders, only to be immediately exploited by unscrupulous people. They are innocent to modern culture and don't even understand when they are being abused or not. They also caught diseases that they never had before from this.


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## dalsgaard

sprinkles said:


> Actually the inverse might true in modern times - they'd probably be _more_ likely to survive in isolated pockets.
> 
> The Jarawa people for example. There's only about 400 of them and they have their own little enclave community, and rejected outside contact. A trunk road was built in the 90's and some of the Jarawa opened up to outsiders, only to be immediately exploited by unscrupulous people. They are innocent to modern culture and don't even understand when they are being abused or not. They also caught diseases that they never had before from this.


The Jarawa may have been living in isolation for thousands of years, but a different species of human would have to live in isolation for maybe more than a hundred thousand years without interbreeding. That's the scale evolution most commonly works on. I'd be really surprised if that were the case.


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## dalsgaard

sprinkles said:


> Actually the inverse might true in modern times - they'd probably be _more_ likely to survive in isolated pockets.
> 
> The Jarawa people for example. There's only about 400 of them and they have their own little enclave community, and rejected outside contact. A trunk road was built in the 90's and some of the Jarawa opened up to outsiders, only to be immediately exploited by unscrupulous people. They are innocent to modern culture and don't even understand when they are being abused or not. They also caught diseases that they never had before from this.


By the way, the Jarawa are pretty damn interesting in their own right. How did you come to learn about them?


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## dalsgaard

Swordsman of Mana said:


> I haven't had short hair in awhile, so I couldn't tell you, but you could read up on the possible aspergers/neanderthal connection here
> The Neanderthal theory of autism, Asperger and ADHD


I read the article. His theories are extremely thought-provoking, and although the evidence is (Of course) anecdotal, he presents quite the case. Have you read his entry about the data gathered from 23andme regarding the neanderthal theory?
Evaluating the Neanderthal theory with 23andme » Rdos blog

Although there is a correlation between the percentage of DNA within test subjects and their AQ scores, I'm not sure that the 0.12 correlation is that convincing. But.... It's still a positive correlation at least!


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## sprinkles

dalsgaard said:


> By the way, the Jarawa are pretty damn interesting in their own right. How did you come to learn about them?


Was doing some idle research about isolated cultures and just happened on them via Google results.


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## Swordsman of Mana

dalsgaard said:


> I read the article. His theories are extremely thought-provoking, and although the evidence is (Of course) anecdotal, he presents quite the case. Have you read his entry about the data gathered from 23andme regarding the neanderthal theory?
> Evaluating the Neanderthal theory with 23andme » Rdos blog
> Although there is a correlation between the percentage of DNA within test subjects and their AQ scores, I'm not sure that the 0.12 correlation is that convincing. But.... It's still a positive correlation at least!


so is this a test that you pay for? does it only apply to aspies?


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## dalsgaard

Swordsman of Mana said:


> so is this a test that you pay for? does it only apply to aspies?


I only know what you know, all I read was the article. I think it's one of those firms, that do genetic analysis and profiles if you send in your spit. Then people pay a small sum contributing to scientific data, and everyone walks away knowing a bit more.


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## dalsgaard

Swordsman of Mana said:


>


I enjoyed this documentary immensely, and highly recommend it. Except, I think this dude....:










.... was far better in Jurassic park:


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