# English teacher writes erotic in her spare time Parents outraged



## heartturnedtoporcelain (Apr 9, 2010)




----------



## IonOfAeons (Dec 2, 2010)

Her responsibility to the students is to teach them to the best degree she can, whilst being supportive of their development is also a desired trait. She does not have a responsibility to abstain from perfectly legal activities such as this just because some prudish parents disagree. Like the video-maker states they clearly don't understand their children if they genuinely think this is going to affect them to the extent that they are making a fuss off.

If a kid honestly does think that her being a published erotic-novelist is really more likely to go for them sexually, then they're grasping at straws anyway, it's their own delusion that isn't the responsibility of the teacher. Leaving aside the fact that it's none of the parents' damn business, it's unlikely to make any noticeable difference, horny kids will be horny kids with or without the knowledge of their teacher's 'racy' hobbies.


----------



## AussieChick (Dec 27, 2010)

I'm studying to be an early childhood educator,and i also write erotic fiction for my friends in my spare time.I'm not published,but does that make me any less capable to be able to educate young children.I also like to be a bit kinky in the bedroom and my private life is my business.What that English teacher does in her own time should remain her business,so long as it doesn't adversely affect how she teaches her students.If she is instructing them how to write erotic novellas in class then the parents have something to be upset about.


----------



## Sara Torailles (Dec 14, 2010)

The only reason I would be upset about that is if she writes a novel about a teacher screwing their student. If that's not the case, then they should leave her alone.


----------



## kristle (Oct 21, 2010)

I have to be honest; I agree with most of you here, but we're missing the point. I've yet to see the actual reasons those parents might be outraged discussed. We have to understand that first before we write off these parents' concerns.

The reason they're concerned about having an erotic novelist as a teacher seems to be obvious. Young impressionable minds are being led physically, academically, and morally by the teachers that they spend 35 hours a week with. Most people would say at least one teacher had a great influence on their life or life choices. So a parent's desire to safeguard that potion seems fair. I get it - no one wants little Susan to grow up striving to be a stripper, hooker, or erotic novelist apparently.

But do those really fall into the same category? I'm probably bias - I love me some good dime novels, but on the other hand, I would never publish them with my real name. Mom and Pop would not exactly be flaunting that achievement around. Some people's parents would. I get that. I also get that the ones that wouldn't deserve just as much respect and the right to raise their children with the morals they've selected.

So the real question is how did these parents find out? If only she'd kept her private life a little more private. >.< In the end, I'd say in this specific situation, the fact that she's published and good at what she does should win out. I just have a hard time seeing erotic novels on the same level as stripping or porn, but then again - who am I to judge? A simple solution would be a private school where higher moral standards are required.


----------



## Digger Blue (Dec 1, 2010)

If she'd established a nom de plume for her erotic writing, and kept it quiet, she could have enjoyed both lives. Failing to do that was a strategic mistake without considering ahead of time the power of the establishment. 
Digger Blue


----------



## android654 (Jan 19, 2010)

Is it any good?


----------



## Frog (May 11, 2011)

Yeah, those... those stupid... parents. They should... they should go get a... OK I can't do this. Here comes a bloodbath.

How... well... DUMB can you guys be to say that the parents shouldn't CARE what the teacher does? You do realize that teachers are, for all practical purposes, surrogate parents... right? You cannot negate the effect teachers have on their students. For the love of Johnny Carson, they're PAID to have an effect on their students! So what is the character of this person who is responsible for the development of your child's mind? Are they moral, ethical people? Are they well-developed and psychologically healthy? Or are they perverts?

This is not to imply that the teacher has inappropriate feelings (or has made inappropriate advances) toward her students. I doubt this is the case. It IS to imply that erotic fantasy is not healthy for the human mind. In fact, I'll outright say it; indulgence in erotic fantasy, whether it be visual or textual, is unhealthy behavior. It is addicting and dehumanizing. I'm sorry if this offends any of you who are comfortable with it, but that's the truth. To have your child taught ANYTHING by somebody with such an interest is kind of like having a ziploc bag of antifreeze in with the food in your picnic basket. Yes, it's quite possible nothing will leak out, but why take the risk? And by the time you get to see if it does, it's too late for the food.

Going off on a slight tangent, I hear very little actual discussion in this thread. Mostly I hear a bunch of talking heads spouting politcally correct but substanceless opinions without even TRYING to see the opposite point of view. Open-minded? Hardly.

Time to reap the whirlwind, I guess.


----------



## android654 (Jan 19, 2010)

There are so many worse things a teacher could be doing in her spare time than writing erotic fiction. It's merely harmless elf expression.


----------



## Sara Torailles (Dec 14, 2010)

Frog said:


> Yeah, those... those stupid... parents. They should... they should go get a... OK I can't do this. Here comes a bloodbath.
> 
> How... well... DUMB can you guys be to say that the parents shouldn't CARE what the teacher does? You do realize that teachers are, for all practical purposes, surrogate parents... right? You cannot negate the effect teachers have on their students. For the love of Johnny Carson, they're PAID to have an effect on their students! So what is the character of this person who is responsible for the development of your child's mind? Are they moral, ethical people? Are they well-developed and psychologically healthy? Or are they perverts?
> 
> ...


Ehh... They're in high school. They already know what erotica is. And don't pretend like they haven't looked at it, either. Most high school kids have seen it at least once.

And writing erotica is her business. Although I see the worry, she wasn't planning to teach her students about this, she planned to teach her students English. It's her hobby and her life. She's not harming anyone.


----------



## kristle (Oct 21, 2010)

Torai said:


> And writing erotica is her business.


Well, it *was* her business, until she allowed it to become everyone else's.


----------



## Sara Torailles (Dec 14, 2010)

kristle said:


> Well, it *was* her business, until she allowed it to become everyone else's.


It's not her fault that she was revealed.


----------



## Frog (May 11, 2011)

They also already know what drugs are, but that doesn't mean I want a pusher teaching my kids economics. I'm glad you can at least see the worry, though.



> There are so many worse things a teacher could be doing in her spare time than writing erotic fiction. It's merely harmless elf expression.


EXACTLY... it's self expression. I write fantasy, so you can probably guess I'm a little out of touch with reality (AKA INFJ). She expresses herself through erotic fiction, which means she is... what, exactly? I definitely agree that there are worse things she could do in her spare time, although my list of those things would probably be shorter than yours.

I appreciate that both you guys thought before replying. I don't expect to convince everyone on the matter, but I figured the opposite viewpoint should at least be heard.


----------



## Frog (May 11, 2011)

Torai said:


> It's not her fault that she was revealed.


How revealed was she? NOW I'm worried...


----------



## kristle (Oct 21, 2010)

Torai said:


> It's not her fault that she was revealed.


It's more likely her fault than not. People didn't magically discover her pastime. Something she did allowed them to. All I'm saying is a pen name and keeping your mouth shut (ie. private life private) goes a long ways. If she's blabbing to her work buddies her fun pen-passion, posting pics of herself on her about the author's note, or using her real name it IS her fault. If she's not doing any of those I highly doubt we would be having this conversation.

A little common sense goes a long ways.


----------



## android654 (Jan 19, 2010)

Frog said:


> EXACTLY... it's self expression. I write fantasy, so you can probably guess I'm a little out of touch with reality (AKA INFJ). She expresses herself through erotic fiction, which means she is... what, exactly? I definitely agree that there are worse things she could do in her spare time, although my list of those things would probably be shorter than yours.


Out of simple curiosity, what does it say about her that chooses to express herself through erotica? I'm truly intrigued as to your answer...


----------



## Sara Torailles (Dec 14, 2010)

Frog said:


> They also already know what drugs are, but that doesn't mean I want a pusher teaching my kids economics. I'm glad you can at least see the worry, though.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not necessarily. Sensors can write fiction. And just because someone writes romance novels doesn't mean they're perverted.



kristle said:


> It's more likely her fault than not. People didn't magically discover her pastime. Something she did allowed them to. All I'm saying is a pen name and keeping your mouth shut (ie. private life private) goes a long ways. If she's blabbing to her work buddies her fun pen-passion, posting pics of herself on her about the author's note, or using her real name it IS her fault. If she's not doing any of those I highly doubt we would be having this conversation.
> 
> A little common sense goes a long ways.


Now that I read the article, she did an interview on YouTube under her pen name. Yeah, that was pretty stupid of her, but now she can probably live off the sales from her books. :tongue:


----------



## kristle (Oct 21, 2010)

Torai said:


> And just because someone writes romance novels doesn't mean they're perverted.


romance novel does not equal erotic fiction

To some people it may not make much of a difference but if you gave a romance novel reader some erotic fiction and vice versa they would both be pretty pissed.

Romance novels have a romantic story and may elude to specific sex acts. Erotica usually centers around the sex and is supposed to be rather graphic about it. I would venture to say if the teacher was just writing romance novels there wouldn't have been the outrage there was for her erotica.


----------



## Frog (May 11, 2011)

I get the feeling that I'm treading on thin ice here.
My instinct is to say that she has an oversexualized imagination... IE, a pervert. However, I left it as a question for a reason, and that is that she may not necessarily be stimulated by her own work. She may be able to write the stuff detachedly, and it's only her readers that are perverted. But to use my earlier analogy, not all pushers actually use drugs, either. I still don't want them giving my children instruction. 

torai, touche. But I think my point remains valid, which is that generally speaking, what we produce says something about our character. Biblically, 'by their fruits ye shall know them.'


----------



## android654 (Jan 19, 2010)

So she's a pervert because she's an adult who thinks if sex actively? Well thank Jesus we have those who repress sexuality like politicians and religious leaders, and they never turn out to be anything but what they presented themselves to be. 

Does this woman have a history of molesting children? Is her writing about molesting her students or children? Is it more conventional fare about adults having sex? 

It's rather ridiculous to insinuate she'd be a danger th 5 year olds simply necause she likes to fuck. I'm curious if people also believe that a penis withers and falls off or a vagina seals it self shut when they have children, because by the same logic, parents who have sex should be a danger to their children as well.


----------



## RunForCover07 (Apr 9, 2013)

I have never understood why people think that teachers don't have a sex drive and their entire life revolves around teaching. If she's not forcing this content on her children and it doesn't affect her ability to teach properly, I don't understand why it's a big deal.


----------



## stargazing grasshopper (Oct 25, 2013)

Frog said:


> ...smut peddler. Erotic fiction is smut... By definition, she is a smut peddler. You see nothing wrong with that, perhaps, but it is what she is.


Jeez you can add me to that list of smut peddlers, I've written a couple erotic stories & published them at Literotica.com


----------



## Frog (May 11, 2011)

stargazing grasshopper said:


> Jeez you can add me to that list of smut peddlers, I've written a couple erotic stories & published them at Literotica.com


Which I have no problem with, because you're also not responsible for molding the minds of a classroom full of kids. If you were (or are), then we might need to discuss farther.

My point here is not that you're a horrible, terrible, disgusting person whose depravity knows no bounds. Frankly, I don't know of any studies into what textual erotica does to the brain. My point is that if my child, who I love dearly and want to be raised espousing the morals and values that I have come to espouse, is in your care and tutelage every day, then you better believe you're going to come under close scrutiny.


----------



## iloveusarita (Nov 9, 2013)

Frog said:


> How would it compromise their skills?


A KKK member teacher may not mark fairly a non-white student. 

This is waay distinct from a teacher writing soft porn in her spare time, since that cannot affect how she views her students.

As said, fuck conservative society and its morals. The basic fact she has a hobby that "prim and 'normal'" (lol..) people don't do is immaterial to her competence and quality as a teacher. It's the same in many other industries.


----------



## dagnytaggart (Jun 6, 2010)

fourtines said:


> Erotic fiction is less explicit, it's not as visceral, and tends to promote humans as whole emotional and intellectual beings rather than physical objects for sexual gratification. The sexual acts are usually but not always enacted in some sort of relationships in erotica. Erotica says more about the holistic human experience.


This. But I suppose to many people, if there's any reference to human sexuality, it's automatically porn. I know people who consider classic baroque art porn, because of the depiction of human nudity. SMH

American society is really stuck in its Puritan roots, in many ways.


----------



## iloveusarita (Nov 9, 2013)

has the porn God come to give an absolute definition?


----------



## ApostateAbe (Aug 8, 2013)

It is the kind of stupidity that is inherent in the strongly-held belief that any thought of sex for fun must not exist in the minds of children, lest we corrupt their innocence and leave a permanent ghastly stain on their sweet minds.


----------



## iloveusarita (Nov 9, 2013)

Frog said:


> Which I have no problem with, because you're also not responsible for molding the minds of a classroom full of kids. If you were (or are), then we might need to discuss farther.
> 
> My point here is not that you're a horrible, terrible, disgusting person whose depravity knows no bounds. Frankly, I don't know of any studies into what textual erotica does to the brain. My point is that if my child, who I love dearly and want to be raised espousing the morals and values that I have come to espouse, is in your care and tutelage every day, then you better believe you're going to come under close scrutiny.


Who says she will push sexual innuendo onto her students?

Most likely, most would not in that scenario. if so, then it will get reported.


----------



## iloveusarita (Nov 9, 2013)

RunForCover07 said:


> I have never understood why people think that teachers don't have a sex drive and their entire life revolves around teaching. If she's not forcing this content on her children and it doesn't affect her ability to teach properly, I don't understand why it's a big deal.


It's in the constitution. the Founding Fathers didn't want teachers to have a life, but they founded the country so who are Americans to argue, eh?


----------



## RunForCover07 (Apr 9, 2013)

postingwithmyindobabe said:


> It's in the constitution. the Founding Fathers didn't want teachers to have a life, but they founded the country so who are Americans to argue, eh?


I know what you mean. In fact, anybody in a leader or educational position should be sent to prison for having any kind of sex drive at all. Better yet, let's cut of their private parts in case they might want to write erotica in their spare time. That will teach them!

I don't know why people are so afraid of sex and sexuality. My spidey senses are telling me it's...religion.

I think I just started a shit storm. I'm going to do my ISFJ thing and avoid conflict. See you guys later. Bahaha.


----------



## RunForCover07 (Apr 9, 2013)

Frog said:


> Which I have no problem with, because you're also not responsible for molding the minds of a classroom full of kids. If you were (or are), then we might need to discuss farther.
> 
> My point here is not that you're a horrible, terrible, disgusting person whose depravity knows no bounds. Frankly, I don't know of any studies into what textual erotica does to the brain. My point is that if my child, who I love dearly and want to be raised espousing the morals and values that I have come to espouse, is in your care and tutelage every day, then you better believe you're going to come under close scrutiny.


There is a difference between somebody writing erotica on the Internet for those to read and enjoy, and somebody going into a classroom and teaching English. I'm sure she's professional at her work place. There is a such thing as self control. Shocking, I know. You're allowing your morals to cloud your judgement. You're making assumptions that because she enjoys such activities in her spare time, that she must be teaching this subject in her classroom. "How disgusting". Listen, we all have sexual thoughts, fantasies, etc. But, she chooses to express hers in written form for other people to see, and I don't see a damn thing wrong with that. 

When does it become a problem? When she is molding the minds of children in a sexual matter. That's not her place as a teacher. But until that's proven or the case, I see no wrong with what's she doing. Let the damn women do what she enjoys. She's not just a teacher, but also a human being who makes mistakes, who has a mind of her own, and most importantly can make her own choices. I care how she chooses to teach in a classroom environment, not what she does outside of the classroom.


----------



## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Frog said:


> Not sure if this is a joke or an insult, because I'm completely missing the references.


Its not an insult, it is a joke about you confusing porn with erotica.

I have worked in adult entertainment and I do volunteer work with children. I wear very plain clothes, my glasses, never bring up boobs, why would I do that around kids? What has one thing to do with the other? 

I would be more concerned about a teacher who dresses in revealing clothing and flirts with the students, or keeps a flask in her desk.

Teachers are people. They have lives outside of or before they worked with kids. I mean, a totally conservative teacher who doesn't write erotica could be a child molester.

I'd be more worried about leaving my kids alone with a priest than a teacher who writes erotica.


----------



## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

RunForCover07 said:


> There is a difference between somebody writing erotica on the Internet for those to read and enjoy, and somebody going into a classroom and teaching English. I'm sure she's professional at her work place. There is a such thing as self control. Shocking, I know. You're allowing your morals to cloud your judgement. You're making assumptions that because she enjoys such activities in her spare time, that she must be teaching this subject in her classroom. "How disgusting". Listen, we all have sexual thoughts, fantasies, etc. But, she chooses to express hers in written form for other people to see, and I don't see a damn thing wrong with that.
> 
> When does it become a problem? When she is molding the minds of children in a sexual matter. That's not her place as a teacher. But until that's proven or the case, I see no wrong with what's she doing. Let the damn women do what she enjoys. She's not just a teacher, but also a human being who makes mistakes, who has a mind of her own, and most importantly can make her own choices. I care how she chooses to teach in a classroom environment, not what she does outside of the classroom.


Hey I mean we know she likes adults, so what's the problem?


----------



## FearAndTrembling (Jun 5, 2013)

fourtines said:


> Its not an insult, it is a joke about you confusing porn with erotica.
> 
> I have worked in adult entertainment and I do volunteer work with children. I wear very plain clothes, my glasses, never bring up boobs, why would I do that around kids? What has one thing to do with the other?
> 
> ...


I honestly wouldn't. The Department of Education did a study that showed there is a higher prevalence of sexual abuse by teachers, than clergy. And it has the same structural problems and cover ups. It even has a name, "passing the trash". They just move these teachers around similar to how priests were moved around.



> "All of the accused admitted sexual abuse of a student, but none of the abusers was reported to the authorities, and only 1 percent lost their license to teach. Only 35 percent suffered negative consequences of any kind, and 39 percent chose to leave their school district, most with positive recommendations. Some were even given an early retirement package."
> In 2004, Shakeshaft published _Educator Sexual Misconduct: A Synthesis of Existing Literature_ for the United States Department of Education.[SUP][2][/SUP] The report indicated that nearly 10% of U.S. public school students, or 4.5 million students, had been the victims of sexual harassment, rape or sexual abuse. The review described the prevalence of educator sexual misconduct, offender characteristics, targets of educator sexual misconduct, and recommendations for prevention of educator sexual misconduct.[SUP][2][/SUP]





> "Only 1 percent of the cases did superintendents follow up to ensure that molesting teachers did not continue teaching elsewhere. In 54 percent, superintendents accepted the teachers' resignations or retirements. Of the 121 teachers removed this way, administrators knew for certain that 16 percent resumed teaching in other districts... Moving molesting teachers from school district to school district is a common phenomenon. And in only 1 percent of the cases do superintendents notify the new school district. The term “passing the trash” is the preferred jargon among educators


----------



## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

FearAndTrembling said:


> I honestly wouldn't. The Department of Education did a study that showed there is a higher prevalence of sexual abuse by teachers, than clergy. And it has the same structural problems and cover ups. It even has a name, "passing the trash". They just move these teachers around similar to how priests were moved around.


Teachers who write erotica about adults most likely are not child molesters. People who do things which they know is disapproved of by society tend to have the strongest fronts, in order to protect themselves, unless they are utterly unhinged.


----------



## angeleyes (Feb 20, 2013)

An English teacher? Writing? Really?


----------



## FearAndTrembling (Jun 5, 2013)

fourtines said:


> Teachers who write erotica about adults most likely are not child molesters. People who do things which they know is disapproved of by society tend to have the strongest fronts, in order to protect themselves, unless they are utterly unhinged.


Oh, I am not arguing that point at all. I just don't think it is fair that priests get such a stigma. I was actually an altar boy, believe it or not. We had altar girls too. They were hot.

But like even in my high school. The vice principal and former guidance counselor was pervert, who people knew hit on, and even had sex, with young students. But it was like a running joke... seriously, nobody even cared.


----------



## FearAndTrembling (Jun 5, 2013)

But yeah, Jung actually talked about that. How the strongest sinners were priests, because they were the most inhibited. The most moral are actually the least moral. Or have the most to hide. Plus when you hold yourself up to such a high moral and self-righteous standard, you fall much further when you break it.


----------



## Caged Within (Aug 9, 2013)

angeleyes said:


> An English teacher? Writing? Really?


I know, right? What is the world coming to?


----------



## Frog (May 11, 2011)

postingwithmyindobabe said:


> A KKK member teacher may not mark fairly a non-white student.
> 
> This is waay distinct from a teacher writing soft porn in her spare time, since that cannot affect how she views her students.
> 
> As said, fuck conservative society and its morals. The basic fact she has a hobby that "prim and 'normal'" (lol..) people don't do is immaterial to her competence and quality as a teacher. It's the same in many other industries.


Touche. I concede the point. Putting that aside, then, would it not make you even slightly uncomfortable if you found out that one of your child's teachers was a hunter and a pro-gun fanatic?



dagnytaggart said:


> This. But I suppose to many people, if there's any reference to human sexuality, it's automatically porn. I know people who consider classic baroque art porn, because of the depiction of human nudity. SMH
> 
> American society is really stuck in its Puritan roots, in many ways.


I know we've been over this, but to re-iterate; the qualifier is that the primary intent of the piece is to titillate and arouse. There's porn that isn't particularly harsh, either--but it's still porn. 



ApostateAbe said:


> It is the kind of stupidity that is inherent in the strongly-held belief that any thought of sex for fun must not exist in the minds of children, lest we corrupt their innocence and leave a permanent ghastly stain on their sweet minds.


Just thought I'd point out that you're undermining previous arguments, which posited complete separation between what the teacher did in her spare time, and what she does in the classroom. If I were a parent, and somebody fed me THIS line, my response would be that YOU can raise YOUR children however you want, but you do not have the right to raise mine.



postingwithmyindobabe said:


> Who says she will push sexual innuendo onto her students?
> 
> Most likely, most would not in that scenario. if so, then it will get reported.


I agree with most of this. I think the part that most people in this thread are missing is that classroom behavior and personal behavior did not stay separate. This is not a story of a teacher who taught kids and quietly wrote erotica in her spare time; this is the story of a teacher who taught kids, quietly wrote erotica in her spare time, AND GOT CAUGHT DOING IT. The parents then have to decide what message their reaction to this will send. Isn't quiet acceptance nearly identical to tacit approval?



RunForCover07 said:


> There is a difference between somebody writing erotica on the Internet for those to read and enjoy, and somebody going into a classroom and teaching English. I'm sure she's professional at her work place. There is a such thing as self control. Shocking, I know. You're allowing your morals to cloud your judgement. You're making assumptions that because she enjoys such activities in her spare time, that she must be teaching this subject in her classroom. "How disgusting". Listen, we all have sexual thoughts, fantasies, etc. But, she chooses to express hers in written form for other people to see, and I don't see a damn thing wrong with that.
> 
> When does it become a problem? When she is molding the minds of children in a sexual matter. That's not her place as a teacher. But until that's proven or the case, I see no wrong with what's she doing. Let the damn women do what she enjoys. She's not just a teacher, but also a human being who makes mistakes, who has a mind of her own, and most importantly can make her own choices. I care how she chooses to teach in a classroom environment, not what she does outside of the classroom.


So, when making judgments, I should throw my morals out the window? If I consider myself a moral person, how can I NOT let my morals "cloud my judgement?"

I don't actually consider myself a moral person, but I do abhor one-sided arguments. However, that's tangential.

Anyway, for the rest of your argument, I feel that what I wrote to postingwithmyindobabe applies.



fourtines said:


> Its not an insult, it is a joke about you confusing porn with erotica.
> 
> I have worked in adult entertainment and I do volunteer work with children. I wear very plain clothes, my glasses, never bring up boobs, why would I do that around kids? What has one thing to do with the other?
> 
> ...


Besides the priest part, which FearAndTrembling already addressed (Thank you, FearAndTrembling, for correcting that misconception), I totally agree with you. And good on you, btw. About your work with kids, I mean--not so much the adult entertainment part. The difference is that you've managed to keep that part of your life separate from your work with the children. The teacher in question has not managed to do so.


----------

