# Are male students being discriminated against in high school?



## Killionaire (Oct 13, 2009)

I've been hearing on youtube that male students are being oppressed and discriminated against in high school by the teachers and administration. How big of a problem is this for you?


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## Children Of The Bad Revolution (Oct 8, 2013)

Source, proof?


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

YamahaMotors said:


> I've been hearing on youtube that male students are being oppressed and discriminated against in high school by the teachers and administration. How big of a problem is this for you?


*discriminated against:* probably not
*properly dealt with:* no. teenage boys are not designed to sit in a chair 8 hours a day and passively nod their way through an education.


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## aendern (Dec 28, 2013)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> teenage boys are not designed to sit in a chair 8 hours a day and passively nod their way through an education.


I would think you would know better than to stereotype entire sexes. 

I honestly have no clue why male students are making lower grades than female students across the board.

I found it easy to sit in a chair for 8 hours every day. In fact, I sit in a chair about 12 hours every day on my own choice.


If I had to relate it to MBTI (which I do because, duh, fun) I would say perhaps males are more likely to be Se doms/auxs, and obviously sitting still for 8 hours a day is not likely to mesh well with those people. Nope, here says that it's pretty damn even on the male/female divide. (not that any source of statistics could be 100% reliable, but, whatever this is all we have). So what I will say is it's hormonal. Se in women tends to manifest in artsy and creative ways. Se in men will tend to manifest in daredevil, thrill-seeking ways. This is just the nature of estrogen/testosterone. So school for female Se doms/auxs would be easier to endure due to the estrogen advantage.

Also college admission rates are lower for males. Women basically dominate the college sphere. Which I think could just be based on grades.. I think if the grades issue was resolved, college demographics of male/female would even out.

Males are more likely to drop out and way more likely to commit suicide, so those two factors could also contribute to a lower male population in college. Also obviously way more likely to be incarcerated.


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## AriesLilith (Jan 6, 2013)

The kind of discrimination I can remember for boys is rather about automatically seeing them as more reblious or mischieving compared to girls. It's like, people might expect guys to be the ones misbehaving rather than girls. Perhaps they are right, that guys tend to misbehave and rebel more, thought it might also be a product of how boys are expected to man up and do all those stuffs to prove themselves (while girls are expected to be gentle, feminine, and so on).

Also, for boys there might not be as much gentleness when dealing with their issues. They are expected to be stronger, people might be harsher to them, and they might not be as much in tune with their own feelings as girls are due to these expectations.

I get the feeling that for example cops might be harsher to teenage boys than girls without a problem too.


Not sure if this is a serious problem, thought I just wanted to comment on what I noticed. We are still not too aware of how expectations on boys can affect them, as people tend to see these expectations naturally.


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## BlackDog (Jan 6, 2012)

I don't think they are oppressed. Oppressed in what way? Lower scores don't necessarily mean oppression or discrimination. 

I have heard it proposed that education has been "feminized" but I am not convinced that explains male's poor scores. The so called feminization was basically putting an emphasis on team work and developing interpersonal skills. I wonder if it would be worth looking into if this is helping boys in other ways though, even if their formal grades are a bit behind girls. It could be that men find this naturally more challenging but it also is a useful skill in our society more than ever. 

There are also more hours of homework than there used to be, and parents didn't used to have to contend with smartphones, ipods, computers, etc. At least not to this extent. Males statistically study less and do less homework that females. Fostering healthy study habits at home seems like the parents job though. I don't have stats to back this up at the moment, but my friend just finished her degree in education and we have talked extensively on the seemingly increasing rate of ADD in young boys. They have a hard time sitting still and focusing when there are so many other distractions. One problem I have noticed is youtube. While tutoring it is a genuine challenge to stop boys from wanting to show you something on youtube, which inevitably turns into "just one more" ad infinitum. Some girls have problems with this too but it doesn't seem as strong. Are boys being misdiagnosed though? It might be worth checking into how many hours of exercise the average boy is getting outside of school. 

I also wonder if part of males absence in college and university is due to the rising value of skilled trades. 

Anyway, in short - yes it seems to be a problem. Males are still more likely to graduate than they used to be, however, they are just not up to the literacy level of females. Their science and math scores are normal. So I cannot help but wonder how misleading it is to claim the school system discriminates against and oppresses males. It is a multifaceted issue. 

PS - It is also worth noting that single sex schools produce better academic outcomes for both males and females, but do result in poorer social development.


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## Stelmaria (Sep 30, 2011)

Students are definitely being oppressed in schools, but I wouldn't say males specifically.


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## Deus Absconditus (Feb 27, 2011)

Everybody is getting discriminated against by the education system, but people don't understand that. To think that one size fits all is a good formula is equivalent to having an idealized version of the world. People need to be taught by their strengths, not taught in a way that caters to the weakest link.


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## Mair (Feb 17, 2014)

I have read that young men tend to underperform in school , but I don't think it's because there is discrimination against them. 
Maybe it's because the majority of young boys prefer hands-on learning, while the educational system focuses mainly on memorization .
In my high school the best students were males though.


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## Ben8 (Jul 5, 2013)

I am more curious about comparing the average number of study and homework hours applied for males and females on a daily basis. Maturity may also be a significant factor to educational success in high school systems.


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## ThatOneWeirdGuy (Nov 22, 2012)

Females (as an aggregate) tend to be higher on "conscientiousness" on personality tests, so that probably has something to do with it.


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## love.script (Nov 23, 2014)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> *discriminated against:* probably not
> *properly dealt with:* no. teenage boys are not designed to sit in a chair 8 hours a day and passively nod their way through an education.


I sat in a chair for eight hours and enjoyed and took part in my education. I did not want to go home. I stayed after school longer to absorb more.


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## love.script (Nov 23, 2014)

emberfly said:


> I found it easy to sit in a chair for 8 hours every day. In fact, I sit in a chair about 12 hours every day on my own choice.


I feel you. I love your Vladimir Putin picture  Cracks me up.

it was not difficult for me to sit and enjoy education. To take part in my education.


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## TurtleQueen (Nov 8, 2014)

As a student, I sometimes felt discriminated against as a female. Here are some things I remember as a student that seemed like discrimination against girls:

--Teachers sometimes called on boys more often than girls in math or science classes. In one vivid example, a teacher called on about five boys before calling on me to answer a science question even though I did very well in that class.
--Schools had more restrictive and more complicated dress codes for girls. Especially when the students became teens, failure to follow a girls' dress code was framed in a sexualized way that was not used to criticize boys who failed to follow dress code. In one case, I was actually told that I was responsible for boys' distraction in a class due to my cleavage and required to leave class to change my shirt.
--In English classes, some teachers went out of their way to provide literature to appeal to boys even though it would not appeal to most girls. Some examples included adventure stories with boys as main characters that included things that could gross girls out like giant space bugs or a description of a character getting sand in his crack. They didn't make boys read that many stories with female main characters or "girly" plots like tamer romance novels. In my AP English classes, we read one text by a woman author (_Frankenstein_) and many classic texts that had sexist portrayals or ideas. I read more classic texts by female authors that featured female main characters when I was assigned those texts in college or when I decided to read them just for fun.

I think that male students and female students may be discriminated against in different ways. School is usually not that great an environment for a stereotypical male personality, but many females could also benefit from school being changed to have a greater emphasis on different types of learning. This article explains how educators' gender biases against girls can impact their education in harmful ways, and I think that the article makes a lot of interesting points.


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## Fern (Sep 2, 2012)

Everyone's discriminated against at some point.


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## love.script (Nov 23, 2014)

TurtleQueen said:


> As a student, I sometimes felt discriminated against as a female. Here are some things I remember as a student that seemed like discrimination against girls:
> 
> --Teachers sometimes called on boys more often than girls in math or science classes. In one vivid example, a teacher called on about five boys before calling on me to answer a science question even though I did very well in that class.
> --Schools had more restrictive and more complicated dress codes for girls. Especially when the students became teens, failure to follow a girls' dress code was framed in a sexualized way that was not use to criticize boys who failed to follow dress code. In one case, I was actually told that I was responsible for boys' distraction in a class due to my cleavage and required to leave class to change my shirt.
> ...


Lovely. 

You know, I really feel I hope nobody is "passively nodding through school" in the first place.

I understand development occurs differently in each human. At different times and different rates of progression.

I feel education systems like United States of America's "K-12" system are clearly faulted. One of the things I find troubling is just what this entire topic is about. To teach a classroom of thirty or forty students using a single instructor (which I feel is absurd at an adolescent level or younger) is crazy. You have to teach without discrimination, which is the wrong way of doing things. You are forced to teach without discrimination because of the mass of students and the tight teaching schedule.

But this is wrong. Ideally, the best way to educate is dependent on the student. The methods you use to teach, the rate at which you teach, the content being taught, and all of this will come at the progression of the student's. With development, with their present struggle or circumstance being considered. It would be absolutely absurd this way with realistic resources and so many incompetent educators flooding into the K-12 system.

But it is the right way. In an ideal world. You need to be able to provide the appropriate education to the youth at that time.

And, man... structure is great and everything. But there are many days I couldn't go to school and care to learn. My brain and my life was somewhere else other than learning. I was feeling more. And I felt awful with the world and with my self.

As a teenage youth, you experience focus on things like sexuality or "difference." Other humans experience focus on things like authority and rules and law.

You cannot just toss this aside. So kids end up getting disciplined and kicked out of school or something. Often to parents who are, themselves, poor in response to the child and unwilling or unable to really work with the child.

Discrimination is necessary when considering how to educate individual persons.

I think, to be able to overcome things like @TurtleQueen mentioned, one of the key things is to simply have astounding educators. You need an educator who feels the student population -- individually and as a whole -- and who is received and felt in great response by the student population. There has to be well response and well moods on an everyday basis. There needs to be understanding of how to approach things appropriately should a student be lacking in their education.

An educator's job is key and it is huge. It is so much. So much. It is a huge amount of things. And it is no trivial or easily overlooked task. This is very critical to the education.

I have met many people who claimed to have gone through a really awful school feeling that there was only ever one teacher they really felt tried to care for them.

This is very troubling.

The job is extremely demanding. 

And what is with our human population being seven billion people? With our planet size and our limited resources? We really should hack away at a couple billion people. It is too high. 

That is on a side note. But it would affect this, I feel. I feel we do have too many humans presently. 

Discrimination needs to be used to provide appropriate education on an individual basis. On a group basis, discrimination is tricky. The job requires that you do not discriminate so each student receives the same education. But the reality of this is so much more complex. I mean, you are dealing with very unique, very moody, very full-of-life students. It is really too much of a hassle to educate higher numbers of students at once. 

My topic here is very jumpy. I am not too concerned.

I feel that one post up there is unfortunate. I really do hope nobody felt the need to "passively nod through their education." I mean... I just know I never did that.


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## TurtleQueen (Nov 8, 2014)

Everything @love.script said about how important it is to "discriminate" to reach individual students is absolutely correct. In my experiences with student teaching, it was a lot easier to reach individual students when class sizes were smaller. If a class size reaches 30+ students, some students may be ignored in a way that reflects subconscious prejudices. When I or other teachers attempted to include kinesthetic learning (often recommended for boys) in a lesson, the results of actual learning were much better with smaller class sizes. Kinesthetic learning or working in groups often requires more effort on the part of the teacher to make sure students are staying on task. Lectures are often not the best way to teach a lesson, but they are often the easiest way to teach when you have a larger number of students. 

The idea of passively nodding through an education is troubling to me. It's not good for any student regardless of gender, and I don't think that most teachers want students to passively nod through their education either. Sometimes, that kind of experience can occur if the teacher is incompetent or uncaring or if outside pressures prevent the teacher from teaching in the best way possible. Outside pressures can include an emphasis on students passing a standardized test or a poorly designed curriculum. If students come into a school far behind grade level, a teacher may simply try to dump a bunch of information into them so that the teacher doesn't lose his/her job if a bunch of students don't pass the class or a standardized test. In my experience, a boy who goes to a more affluent school could get a much better education than a girl who goes to a school with poorer students. In my experience, discrimination against the poor can outweigh any kind of discrimination based on gender.


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## DualGnosis (Apr 6, 2013)

YamahaMotors said:


> I've been hearing on youtube that male students are being oppressed and discriminated against in high school by the teachers and administration. How big of a problem is this for you?


I'm assuming you're talking about youtube videos like these?






Argument: Boys brains develop later than girls.






Argument: Schools have shifted from upholding boys to upholding girls, instead of shifting towards equality.


I have to agree that statistically speaking boys are not doing as well as girls in schools:
http://www.unicef.org/eapro/report_why_are_boys_underperforming_FINAL.pdf

But is this a result of discrimination? I'm not sure. When I was in school, I didn't necessarily feel discrimination, but I might be an exception since I went to a minority-majority high school in which only a handful of students went and finished college and the honor roll comprised mostly of Asians and a few Hispanics.

I think the disparity is most apparent among the Black population. Where I went to school, most of the black female students went to class and graduated from High School at least. But the black male students I could say only half of them actually did graduate. Now was it discrimination? Again I'm not sure. I could say that many of the male students didn't want to be at school, and in fact it wasn't uncommon to see them get sent out of class for disrupting the teacher.

Of course there's always exceptions but generally this was my experience.


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## Mimic octopus (May 3, 2014)

Think about how much young males dominate in areas such as trades and sports compared to girls though. I remember a lot of guys dropping out of my school early to get jobs in manual labor and things like that.


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## Deus Absconditus (Feb 27, 2011)

Patrick_1 said:


> Think about how much young males dominate in areas such as trades and sports compared to girls though. I remember a lot of guys dropping out of my school early to get jobs in manual labor and things like that.


That's the problem...


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## Emerald Legend (Jul 13, 2010)

Schools are feminized very early on..not intentionally (see below)
The boys' tendency to play with things, explore and manipulate their environment is seen as mischievous as schools expects complete obedience and calmness from little boys. Denying biology here..some teachers (mostly women) like to treat this natural hyperactivity of boys as signs of ADHD and it sometimes leads to medication (source leonard sax's book)
Competitive sports are not encouraged because it "degrades harmony"..some schools even ban things like dodgeball. Boys/men thrive on competition, not harmony. Give them incentive to play the game and do well, and they will put in the effort to be amazing. Speaking of play- playing time outside of gym class is hard to get unless boys are part of sport team elites. What about the rest of the kids who need play and competition?
Curriculum is biased and caters to development of females. Brain of boys develop/matures much later than girls, yet school curriculum expects boys to learn similarly to girls. By the time they mature, boys are already discouraged or have failed in courses like math or even english to catch up. This is not intentional (or I hope to God it isn't). This happens because of expectations of educational system- where tests/evaluative pressure are pushed on as early as kindergarten/entering elementary school. Contrast this to Finland's education system- where tests/exams are very rare, play time is high..and this yields in a system that is considered to be one of the best and a model education system in the world. 
Co-ed system is a distraction to boys because well- teens are horny, for this their priorities are not college but girls, or violence if family life is not that great or there's peer pressure. So what do we get? Discouraged high school kids with low marks, chasing girls, distracted by trivialities, sometimes violent and no hopes of a better future..it's almost too easy to drop out of school and chase money since it seems like a worthy goal with the absence of ambition. 

The Problem with School? . Boys in School . Raising Boys . PBS Parents | PBS


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## Mimic octopus (May 3, 2014)

Shadow Logic said:


> That's the problem...


What do you mean?


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## Deus Absconditus (Feb 27, 2011)

Patrick_1 said:


> What do you mean?


How many manual laborers make decisions that will impact the lives of many on a national, and sometimes global scale? Men are leaving the high impact jobs with more influence to rather work manual labor jobs that have much less influence. If men aren't going to utilize education, then theyll lose their power of influence in education sectors, while also being pushed aside to teach those who would rather benefit from the education. If men are going to complain about being discriminated against then they might as well get up and prove that they are valuable as a student. 

Those who are willing to learn will be catered too instead of those who would rather drop out or not get an education. Males have been graduating less and less, give woman much more influence in the education sector. This is a great thing for woman and young ladies but horrible for males who can be discriminated against, or not taken as serious when it comes to education. Its a slippery slope to allow any one gender to dominate the education sector, shit its a slippery slope to allow any one group of anything to dominate the education sector. If men don't fix themselves then they'll have a much bigger problem in the future.


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## Cheveyo (Nov 19, 2010)

While the current system does favor girls, I don't think it's due discrimination. That's essentially believing there are people purposefully trying to make males ignorant. While I'm sure there are people who dislike men enough to want that, I don't think "the matriarchy" exists any more than "the patriarchy".

It's ignorance and a refusal to evolve.

Ignorance in the assumption that you can not only teach both boys and girls in the same manner, but that all boys and girls are exactly alike. There are some kids that learn better by doing. Some that learn better in groups. Some that learn better alone. Some that learn better while being the main focus of the teacher's attention.

The world has changed drastically since the current system of education was created. The way people are taught needs to change.


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## Grandmaster Yoda (Jan 18, 2014)

Have you people ever been to a school? They aren't being "discrimated against" many of them simply don't care about the work and consider it to an absurd waste of their time, and they are correct in a sense. Much of it is impractical to them but they may also fail to realize the importance of academic literacy or that by participating, they are "learning how to think." Also does that make me a real survivor of the system? Did I overcome something that was discrimating against me? No matter of fact I just sit through school like anyone else, and as an added little thing, I also pay attention. Maybe I don't value it the most of people but I have a vague sense of responsibility and self-discipline.
Discrimating occurs before the end of things. 
Equal oppurtunity is what we would be looking at (I assume). So a mere outcome does not necessarily signify that people are indeed being discriminated against considering a multitude of factors that may look to a person' failure to achieve. Otherwise if we are looking for equal outcome, no worries about discrimination, we could just control all outcomes directly rather than unleashing the people into competition from a set starting line.


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## Aya the Abysswalker (Mar 23, 2012)

love.script said:


> I sat in a chair for eight hours and enjoyed and took part in my education. I did not want to go home. I stayed after school longer to absorb more.


You're not the morn. Most guys I was in school with didn't like it, they found it boring and would rather joke around, sometimes with subject at hand. In high school they used to plan pranks to do outside the classroom.

Are they being oppressed because they're not allowed to do this in a classroom? No.
I do think we spend too much time in theory and useless one in top of it.


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## KINGoftheAMAZONS (Jun 21, 2011)

Unfortunately, gender and race tend to be equally important factors when it comes to discrimination in elementary, middle, and high school. But "discrimination in school" is such a broad category, I will focus on school discipline. It seems that while males make up 8 out 10 students that are suspended from school, black males make up the largest overall group of students that get suspended. However, black & Native-American female students have higher rates of suspension than white male students. 

When it comes to corporal punishment in schools (getting paddled by school officials - yes it's still legal in several states), boys made up 78.3% of all students paddled. African American boys are 2.1 times more likely to be paddled, Native American boys 3.2 times more likely to be paddled, and white boys are 1.2 times more likely to be padded - which shows an overrepresentation of boys receiving physical discipline. 

According to research, even one single school suspension can double a student's odds of dropping out. So it follows to reason that groups that are over-represented in school suspensions, will have a tougher time with academic achievment. And while males make up 8 out of 10 suspensions, it seems to mostly be males of color (black, Hispanic, and Native American boys) that make up the largest percentage of male suspensions, while black and Native-American females are suspended more than white male and female students. Also, Corporal punishment has been shown to negatively affect academic performance, and the learning environment itself. 

And lastly, here's an interesting article that names modern teaching methods & not encouraging men to study traditionally female fields (like Nursing), as likely reasons for male disengagement in schooling and lack of economic improvement. The article relies on some gender stereotypes (that I disagree with of course), but it might be on to something when it comes to making education better in general. Especially with regards to adding more 'hands on' activity to school curriculums.


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## love.script (Nov 23, 2014)

Shadow Logic said:


> How many manual laborers make decisions that will impact the lives of many on a national, and sometimes global scale? Men are leaving the high impact jobs with more influence to rather work manual labor jobs that have much less influence. If men aren't going to utilize education, then theyll lose their power of influence in education sectors, while also being pushed aside to teach those who would rather benefit from the education. If men are going to complain about being discriminated against then they might as well get up and prove that they are valuable as a student.
> 
> Those who are willing to learn will be catered too instead of those who would rather drop out or not get an education. Males have been graduating less and less, give woman much more influence in the education sector. This is a great thing for woman and young ladies but horrible for males who can be discriminated against, or not taken as serious when it comes to education. Its a slippery slope to allow any one gender to dominate the education sector, shit its a slippery slope to allow any one group of anything to dominate the education sector. If men don't fix themselves then they'll have a much bigger problem in the future.


Yeah. Unfortunately. I am a twenty-two year biological male. I never felt very masculine. I will tell you I have thrown manual labor jobs beneath me. I will never feel to do those. I do not feel they are relevant to me, have any meaning for me, or anything else.

The thing is. I have been advised not to do this. Evidently, all types of humans are needed. We all work together. The "working 'class'" is the majority, I think, on a global basis. Most humans seem to do jobs like that. Manual labor jobs or jobs I may feel are trivial. Something like standing at the end of the market street selling a product to someone eight hours a day. Something like cleaning someone's home. Repairing a computer. Assembly on a factory line. Building something.

I cannot care to do it personally. And I am male. But I do understand, I think, not to openly harass people who do those jobs. Because those jobs are necessary.

So I really don't know that those men who work in a "low-impact" job like of the manual labor sort are really so powerless or throwing themselves away. I understand production of physical work is very important.

I think am simply a different kind of human than most. And I think this is okay. I guess jobs like that must really be "high-impact" if so many hundreds of millions of people do them. If suddenly all those people ceased to be kicking butt sitting on a roof top and repairing your home while baking in the heat, then I guess our homes fall apart. xD I am serious! That would be scary. To some extent. Back to caves! o;

I am kidding. That would be awful  xD

Have men really not been graduating much? I mean I graduated high school and will be attending college for either four or eight year degrees. I mean I am so physically incompetent. xD I am no "jack-of-trades." I am like that person with a hidden potential to touch millions of people. And maybe that will happen. But if not, I think I can come closer and help thousands of people on a closer, smaller community basis.
*
You know, you guys talk about refusal of men to "evolve." You seem to feel men fail in education and this is really much of an issue. I am really not so sure how much of an issue it is. We cannot have everyone doing social work. We cannot have everyone doing humanitarian work. There cannot just be a bunch of people speaking and feeling. There has to be people who can do some physical work and get it done well. If nobody is doing this physical work that these boys "drop out" of high school to do, then our human society would experience a shift. I mean our modern industrial civilization would collapse with little time to spare, I think.*

I mean, I definitely think those jobs are needed. I think it is crack cocaine how our human nature or psychology are built for certain things. I really cannot feel to do physical work. But listening to other people who think on more logical basis, I have heard them toss down jobs like what I might be interested in. They might question those jobs. And it's amazing!

Maybe there really is some kind of natural inclination in the male gender to kick butt in physical work. I guess the majority of them maybe are logical and physically competent and understanding. So they can do this stuff.

A really sexist joke I just composed. I am really awful. College and university level education is referred to as "higher learning" commonly enough, I think. If a boy drops out of high school and never attends college, then I feel it would be humorous to say (unrelated to my post) o.o "since when were boys and men ever very 'high' in the first place?" Promotin' the female! 

I am kidding. That is really awful. I would have said something like that as an adolescent. Now I can openly recognize it as a "sexist slant."

What a freaking long post. And I feel it probably rambles and is unorganized. I felt that about the previous post I did on this thread too, but I think it came through in a readable format.

I have more to reply to now also. Well. It was just what @jestream Aya said. I mean, obviously I am not a very normal male. I am the furthest thing from any male "stereotype." There were a notable few other boys in my school who cared so much as me for education. You know, I really feel I must have gone to an incredible cheap working-class American high school. I really do think so. Everything I have heard on the Internet and seen since graduation from other youth. I think there must be a large amount of awful schools.

My education was actually mixed into more than a single public high school. But I am concerned with so many people telling me they attended schools where they felt nobody was caring to pay attention to them. That the educator's did not work to help them understand the content.

I mean, are there schools like that? Was my school like that and I was just too amazing to be unable to process a wealth of knowledge, even given a sh*t school?


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## love.script (Nov 23, 2014)

So I do feel it was too long of a post. I think I could cut back on "story-telling" and cut back on any kind of trivial and humor-related talk. 

The thing is, I was speaking that way because I do not think about my content. I just let it flow from within me. There was no edit or review. I mean what you see there is what I felt.

I noticed I accidentally tagged someone called "@jes" instead of "@Jetstream Aya." xD Clumsiness! 

Man, people talk about stereotypes of guys... and like them not being good for certain jobs and being so prone to manual labor.

I really feel boys are stupid and awful. And the only thing good about boys is that they can sometimes be cute. But they usually look like crap, treat others like crap, don't know much, ... So that is a usual.

xD I have this idea in my head that middle aged men (40-60) are like the best men. That these men are so much more conscious and feeling-driven. Like they have lived long enough now to finally have matured to where a woman may be at 20-30. xD It cracks me up.

More sexism from @love.script. Jeez, what a b*tch. :'(


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## Aya the Abysswalker (Mar 23, 2012)

@love.script because neither of us is 'normal' and we can't really understand how they feel.
That's what I think at least.

Boy are not stupid or awful. They have different growths and personalities. Judging all of them as that is a idiotic really.


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## love.script (Nov 23, 2014)

Jetstream Aya said:


> @_love.script_ because neither of us is 'normal' and we can't really understand how they feel.
> That's what I think at least.
> 
> Boy are not stupid or awful. They have different growths and personalities. Judging all of them as that is a idiotic really.


And I agree! I feel I was making personally humorous slants publicized. But I am certainly aware, at this point, no full category of people can conform to any kind of stereotype fully. I think when I was a teenager I was very against males and I stereotyped them. But I was contradicting, of course. I liked a few boys who maybe were more similar to me than I realized back then.

I definitely am not so awful to believe much of what I said. I was making jokes. On a forum not meant for joking. In a thread where gender is the sensitive issue. Because I am just so awful to do that. Today. Right now, I will do that.

But it doesn't mean it is what I believe or I am so stupid to consume myself with that. It does not mean I limit myself to that kind of understanding I described. I really feel I was just joking.


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## Aya the Abysswalker (Mar 23, 2012)

love.script said:


> And I agree! I feel I was making personally humorous slants publicized. But I am certainly aware, at this point, no full category of people can conform to any kind of stereotype fully. I think when I was a teenager I was very against males and I stereotyped them. But I was contradicting, of course. I liked a few boys who maybe were more similar to me than I realized back then.
> 
> I definitely am not so awful to believe much of what I said. I was making jokes. On a forum not meant for joking. In a thread where gender is the sensitive issue. Because I am just so awful to do that. Today. Right now, I will do that.
> 
> But it doesn't mean it is what I believe or I am so stupid to consume myself with that. It does not mean I limit myself to that kind of understanding I described. I really feel I was just joking.


I was making sure if you were joking because you never can't do that enough when it's about gender.


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## S33K3RZ (Oct 18, 2014)

Ben8 said:


> I am more curious about comparing the average number of study and homework hours applied for males and females on a daily basis. Maturity may also be a significant factor to educational success in high school systems.


I didn't see a big deviation in high school; in college the difficulty for different degrees is astronomically more difficult which means work loads will vary significantly. I got a double BS in business and computer science which was about 250 units where as I recall meeting sitting with a girl that was studying and asking what degree she was going for, and she told me Storytelling to which I laughed, making her get offended and storming off. I looked it up and it was 50 units.


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## Psychophant (Nov 29, 2013)

@S33K3RZ People must love being around you..

I don't think guys are "discriminated against" in highschool, but I'm not sure public school teaching methods appeal so much to them (broadly speaking of course). Granted, I don't think women are discriminated against in STEM either.


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## Aya the Abysswalker (Mar 23, 2012)

S33K3RZ said:


> I didn't see a big deviation in high school; in college the difficulty for different degrees is astronomically more difficult which means work loads will vary significantly. I got a double BS in business and computer science which was about 250 units where as I recall meeting sitting with a girl that was studying and asking what degree she was going for, and she told me Storytelling to which I laughed, making her get offended and storming off. I looked it up and it was 50 units.


Its just a crime to know things outside your area.


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## Ben8 (Jul 5, 2013)

I am wondering if women have less deviation in intelligence, grades, etc. than men. Is it possible that men have a larger deviation and that skews the numbers? Taking STEM courses and seeing mostly men doing integral calculus, physics, and thermodynamics, I have a hard time believing they had lower grades than the average girl in high school. However, growing up in the southern part of the United States, there were some real hicks who couldn't understand anything but herding cattle and smoking weed. There were many more of those guys than girls in high school for me.


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## conscius (Apr 20, 2010)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> teenage boys are not designed to sit in a chair 8 hours a day and passively nod their way through an education[/B].


Indeed!


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## Aya the Abysswalker (Mar 23, 2012)

Ben8 said:


> I am wondering if women have less deviation in intelligence, grades, etc. than men. Is it possible that men have a larger deviation and that skews the numbers? Taking STEM courses and seeing mostly men doing integral calculus, physics, and thermodynamics, I have a hard time believing they had lower grades than the average girl in high school. However, growing up in the southern part of the United States, there were some real hicks who couldn't understand anything but herding cattle and smoking weed. There were many more of those guys than girls in high school for me.


Actually it depends on the guy, but usually the best student of the class is a girl. USUALLY.


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## Sporadic Aura (Sep 13, 2009)

Jetstream Aya said:


> Actually it depends on the guy, but usually the best student of the class is a girl. USUALLY.


I think it just depends on the high school. The best students in my high school were completely mixed. Some were guys, some were girls.


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## Aya the Abysswalker (Mar 23, 2012)

Sporadic Aura said:


> I think it just depends on the high school. The best students in my high school were completely mixed. Some were guys, some were girls.


In my class we had 4 guys. One was really good, the other was lazy, one didn't give as fuck and the least one was just awful as a student. Most girls were better than most guys throughout all my school years.


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## oreocheesecake (Nov 15, 2014)

Boys used to perform better on tests and exams in the UK, but a lot of effort has been put into bringing girls' test scores and exam results to the same standard as boys. Nowadays though, girls are doing better, and boys are falling behind. I don't know if the school environment has been geared in recent years to favour females, since they used to perform poorly in comparison, but it appears that boys aren't doing so well anymore, for whatever reason, and their representation at university has fallen a lot.

I don't think it should be overlooked as a problem. If one gender starts falling behind then the obvious response is to look into why that is happening and what can be done to bring them to the same standard. We like to pretend that men and women are equal in every aspect but the simple fact of the matter is that we have different brain structures and absorb information differently, and learn differently. It isn't fair to apply a single standard and expect both boys and girls to do equally well when one is more likely to favour the other. Simple labeling boys as being irresponsible, immature and not willing to learn is unfair and incorrect. 

It's also true that sectors like manufacturing have fallen out of fashion due to technology advancement and outsourcing, which is very unfair, since manufacturing is a very valuable sector and contributes a lot to national economies. Having an economy almost entirely dominated by service jobs isn't a good idea - it hasn't worked so well here anyway, and has made our economy too reliant on the financial sector, and highly vulnerable to economic crises. It has also reduced out national competitiveness. 

Still, fields like maths and science are dominated by males, while females still cluster towards social sciences (I see it as a monumental waste of time and not at all worthwhile, but whatever). How long that will last is anyone's guess.

I think our education system needs an overhaul and we should stop applying a single standard. People learn in different ways and it's foolish to expect everyone to learn at the same pace and in the same manner. It simply doesn't work and that is evident by our failing education system which has undoubtedly gotten worse over the past 30 years.

Someone posted an article recently and it made a good point - the education system has changed, not boys. We are simply moving into the same extreme that existed before but with the roles reversed - but people don't see it as an issue (areas that men and boys don't do well in are rarely treated as seriously since men still hold a lot of power in society, even if they are failing in many areas).


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