# Dual relationships - Is the change /growth permanent?



## Foxyfox (Oct 21, 2016)

Hello! Although I do understand the concept of duality I’m curious to know if once a person has been “dualized” is this person “dualized” permanently? Or is it only while their dual is around/ in their lives ? For example, if a person grew up dualized- with a close relationship with their dual parent for the first 19 years of life will the (former) child continue to be what they call “dualized” throughout life ?


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## DOGSOUP (Jan 29, 2016)

IME: more attuned to that type of information provider / process of mutual support and know what to look for
But for the positive vibes / impact of dual you need continued interaction otherwise the effect wanes & you start seeking out your semidual or mirage instead out of desperation...


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## intranst (Jul 13, 2021)

Debatably one of the worst matches in my observation and experience. Duality looks good on paper, and the dynamic between the individuals is observable due to the placement of judging functions in each other, but it's not a good match.


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## Art-demure (Sep 13, 2021)

I've experienced duality for the first time, I think. 
When I read about it, I find that it was something that I would seldom believe initially, but in the end, it turns out to be perfectly accurate. It's not something you are used to because one has to get out of their comfort zone with their dual. There are a lot of sacrifices, misunderstandings, and obstacles that you must overcome and it's a truly wonderful experience if you get to be with your dual. You become the best version of yourself and it's like you can breathe the fresh air. It leaves you with a feeling of warmth, comfort, and solace for the first time in your life. I'm very glad to meet an SLE who is mature, although he was quite mentally unstable due to psychological issues in his life, however, I learned something from this intertype relationship or whatever you want to call it. And I wish someday there would be someone who could complement me in the future. I haven't found my dual yet tho for a long term relationship.


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## Foxyfox (Oct 21, 2016)

Art-demure said:


> I've experienced duality for the first time, I think.
> When I read about it, I find that it was something that I would seldom believe initially, but in the end, it turns out to be perfectly accurate. It's not something you are used to because one has to get out of their comfort zone with their dual. There are a lot of sacrifices, misunderstandings, and obstacles that you must overcome and it's a truly wonderful experience if you get to be with your dual. You become the best version of yourself and it's like you can breathe the fresh air. It leaves you with a feeling of warmth, comfort, and solace for the first time in your life. I'm very glad to meet an SLE who is mature, although he was quite mentally unstable due to psychological issues in his life, however, I learned something from this intertype relationship or whatever you want to call it. And I wish someday there would be someone who could complement me in the future. I haven't found my dual yet tho for a long term relationship.
> l


Thank you for your input.. Do you find that your relationship with your dual has permanently changed you for the better? Has it helped you to take on qualities of your dual and made you a more well rounded person permanently?


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## Foxyfox (Oct 21, 2016)

intranst said:


> Debatably one of the worst matches in my observation and experience. Duality looks good on paper, and the dynamic between the individuals is observable due to the placement of judging functions in each other, but it's not a good match.


I believe I might have had a toxic romantic relationship with a dual as well, but I also can’t rule out that he may have in fact been my conflictor. Regardless that relationship changed the both of us as well.


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## Art-demure (Sep 13, 2021)

Foxyfox said:


> Thank you for your input.. Do you find that your relationship with your dual has permanently changed you for the better? Has it helped you to take on qualities of your dual and made you a more well rounded person permanently?


No problem and yes, I believe so. Not sure if it has permanently changed me because even without a dual, I could still improve myself. It was just that I become a lot more confident whenever I am with my dual. My weaknesses apparently weren't much of a big deal because it has already been taken care of by him. I could dream about things, but with him, he does things instantly in the concrete world. There were a few occasions where I struggled and cried over a silly thing, but he rescued me so to speak, and took care of the things I wasn't necessarily good at. Especially the environment. Now I am aching for another dual since this man is already married. I see myself in a long-term relationship or being married with my dual, and I'd say it is possible, but of course, it will take time and patience for it to work. Definitely left an impression on me.


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## Art-demure (Sep 13, 2021)

Foxyfox said:


> I believe I might have had a toxic romantic relationship with a dual as well, but I also can’t rule out that he may have in fact been my conflictor. Regardless that relationship changed the both of us as well.


If I may ask, what's your type?


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## Foxyfox (Oct 21, 2016)

Art-demure said:


> If I may ask, what's your type?


I am an IEE. The reason I ask about duality changing a person permanently is because despite being an IEE oddly enough I have a much stronger Se and feel very comfortable using it (although I do gravitate and seek out Si more than anything). Also, I have read that people with strong Ti are the ones who do well in math, chemistry, critical thinking etc., and those were actually my best subjects in school. So I am wondering if these qualities that are uncharacteristic of the IEE that I possess are due to having a long term close relationship with my dual parent for the first half of my life and if this is what it is meant by being dualized.


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## intranst (Jul 13, 2021)

Your dual is not objective in a way that’s helpful to you, take ESTJ (MBTI terms), they evaluate with Si (second function), how is that helpful for an INFP with Se as a blindspot? The INFP will be bombarded with yet another subjective take on reality that the ESTJ will say is fact (similar to their own when undeveloped). Toxic match, and people like to convince themselves that they are developing from it but that’s just because you’re having to adapt to make it work but it’s not in a way that’s beneficial for you individually.


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## Art-demure (Sep 13, 2021)

Foxyfox said:


> I am an IEE. The reason I ask about duality changing a person permanently is because despite being an IEE oddly enough I have a much stronger Se and feel very comfortable using it (although I do gravitate and seek out Si more than anything). Also, I have read that people with strong Ti are the ones who do well in math, chemistry, critical thinking etc., and those were actually my best subjects in school. So I am wondering if these qualities that are uncharacteristic of the IEE that I possess are due to having a long term close relationship with my dual parent for the first half of my life and if this is what it is meant by being dualized.


Duals don't change you permanently because time will inevitably change you, either you become better or worse. If you have a parent who is your dual, of course it might have impacted you greatly throughout your life. Every parent shall always influence their offspring in some way unconsciously or subconsciously. I didn't have any family member who was my dual, and throughout childhood, I have always dreamt to meet someone like the SLE man (who I recently met and he happened to be my dual) a sort of fatherly figure even if he isn't my father per say. I've only known him for 6 months and we get along well even though there were times when I just didn't want to meet him anymore and I'd prefer to vanish from his presence. But ironically it was that very same thing that I lack all these years-- his physical presence which I truly find it admirable about him. I didn't have anyone to look up to who was physically present and protective (from the dangers in the real world) like this man.


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## DOGSOUP (Jan 29, 2016)

intranst said:


> Your dual is not objective in a way that’s helpful to you, take ESTJ (MBTI terms), they evaluate with Si (second function), how is that helpful for an INFP with Se as a blindspot? The INFP will be bombarded with yet another subjective take on reality that the ESTJ will say is fact (similar to their own when undeveloped). Toxic match, and people like to convince themselves that they are developing from it but that’s just because you’re having to adapt to make it work but it’s not in a way that’s beneficial for you individually.


You do realize that that Socionics Si is literally about sensations and does not mean you are deluded about reality.

I think you would do well to leave your MBTI out of Socionics when discussing Socionics.

LSE has 4D Se (volition) which is plenty to cover for EIIs polr when needed, but they do not focus on it so much that the EII starts feeling they are stuck between a hammer and an anvil.


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## intranst (Jul 13, 2021)

DOGSOUP said:


> You do realize that that Socionics Si is literally about sensations and does not mean you are deluded about reality.
> 
> I think you would do well to leave your MBTI out of Socionics when discussing Socionics.
> 
> LSE has 4D Se (volition) which is plenty to cover for EIIs polr when needed, but they do not focus on it so much that the EII starts feeling they are stuck between a hammer and an anvil.


I’m talking about Si not Se, and I said subjective not delusional which is not the same thing. Si is in fact, a subjective take on sensation. Information gathered by ENTJs will be more beneficial because they have Ni second to track patterns. Since it is ESTJ’s blindspot, ESTJs are going to be unfairly critical about how the INFP chooses to live their life.


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## DOGSOUP (Jan 29, 2016)

intranst said:


> I’m talking about Si not Se, and I said subjective not delusional which is not the same thing. Si is in fact, a subjective take on sensation. Information gathered by ENTJs will be more beneficial because they have Ni second to track patterns. Since it is ESTJ’s blindspot, ESTJs are going to be unfairly critical about how the INFP chooses to live their life.


You mentioned Se blindspot, I assumed you meant polr.
EII already has 4D Ni they do not need that input from other types.
Why are you on Socionics thread if you are not going to talk about Socionics..?


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## intranst (Jul 13, 2021)

DOGSOUP said:


> You mentioned Se blindspot, I assumed you meant polr.
> EII already has 4D Ni they do not need that input from other types.
> Why are you on Socionics thread if you are not going to talk about Socionics..?


When I mentioned Se blindspot/polr in INFPs I wasn’t referring to ESTJs protecting them momentarily from threats or anything like that, I was referring to INFPs being provided information that was gathered across time and known to work for many people. ESTJs in contrast to ENTJs will provide information that has worked for themselves and say it works for everyone.


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## DOGSOUP (Jan 29, 2016)

intranst said:


> When I mentioned Se blindspot/polr in INFPs I wasn’t referring to ESTJs protecting them momentary from threats or anything like that, I was referring to INFPs being provided information that was gathered across time and known to work for many people. ESTJs in contrast to ENTJs will provide information that has worked for themselves and say it works for everyone.


All 4D elements gather information across time.

That is some MBTI S/N hangup you got there.


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## intranst (Jul 13, 2021)

DOGSOUP said:


> IME: more attuned to that type of information provider / process of mutual support and know what to look for
> But for the positive vibes / impact of dual you need continued interaction otherwise the effect wanes & you start seeking out your semidual or mirage instead out of desperation...


Can I ask where this is coming from? Why seek your semi-dual or mirage when you already have your dual?


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## DOGSOUP (Jan 29, 2016)

intranst said:


> Can I ask where this is coming from? Why seek your semi-dual or mirage when you already have your dual?


Variety is the spice of life! But seriously though, in situations where dual is not available it's nice - and yeah I don't think duality is superior to every other relation either (I did not mean to give that impression lol).


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