# Are Male NFs less committed/passionate?



## Aert (Jul 17, 2014)

"Curiously, it appears that female Idealists are able to sustain the roman- ticism invested in a relationship longer than male Idealists. But for the male NF, anticipation can be more attractive than consummation, and the love which he believes will be perfect and undying can co~e to seem ordinary and inadequate in the harsh light of everyday reality. And so, after the physical side of the relationship has lost its mystery, some male NFs can become disinterested and hunger after another fantasy, feeling compelled (if only in their imagination) to pursue the dream of a larger-than-life goddess who will satisfy all their desires and be wife, mother, and mistress to them."
- David Keirsey, Please Understand Me 2

To think that once again females get the shorter end of the stick, makes me very sad. I've always been looking out for male NFs, thinking that they would be able to match me in love 'ability'. Picture a candle with an intense flame that never goes out and That's my ideal of love (don't take it literally). Neither partner thinks about anyone else romantically or otherwise, ever. Both are as in love as in the beginning and nothing goes stale. It's not a matter of sacrificing passion for stability, when you have both in equally high amounts. It makes me so disappointed to think that even male NFs can be pleasure/experience-oriented in relationships. I just wish that female and male NFs had the same capacity for love. I know I shouldn't believe everything I read, but this is coming from David Keirsey. Reading this just destroyed my hopes that I could find someone like myself. 
Male NFs, is the paragraph on male NFs really true? How would you describe your experience?

Also, I apologise if I seem annoying/whiny/pessimistic. I've been going through stuff, and it has made me jittery.


----------



## wums (Nov 25, 2013)

I really doubt that is true if we're talking healthy people. I think a lot of men just have compartmentalized their emotions, NFs being no exception, so ultimately they don't know what they truly want and they get in the wrong relationships.


----------



## Winegums (Sep 8, 2014)

@Aert 

I can't see that quote being true, and female NF's have it much easier than male NF's. NF qualities like being sensitive, caring and in tune with emotions are discouraged in males. Often this leads to NF males being picked on or looked down on by the male population. So don't think that women are getting the short end all the time.

I really haven't experienced what's described in the quote above. It's more so that incompatibilities show up and it wasn't the right relationship to be in from the very start. I've never gotten tired of someone I love, and have never felt like I've cared less than my partners. If anything I've felt like I've been the one trying to give everything while the girls haven't.


----------



## Northcrest (Sep 21, 2012)

The male nfs i know all seem to be committed/passionate people. Im not one to bounce around when it comes to people or work/hobbies. If anything i fi d it draining to do that, which i try to avoid getting exhausted.


----------



## Endless Rainbows (Oct 1, 2014)

@Aert, never fear. That is a depressing paragraph to read yikes! My heart skipped a beat reading it too.

NFs are satisfied with another NF in romantic relationships higher than average, yes?

NF males are sensitive and capable of great devotion and love and attention to their partner. As in finding a supreme goddess character I think if they are committed to their partner they are committed. I have found my match in showing love and romance. I am a sappy romantic at heart (Oh Mr Darcy sweep me off my feet!). I am an ENFJ female and my INFJ boyfriend shocked me when he started talking about the importance of commitment in a long term relationship. I had never met a man who spoke so freely about the C word! Blew me away and he is just as loving as he was at the beginning of the relationship so never fear, a loving individual doesn't just lose interest in a long term relationship unless they were seriously incompatible and did not communicate well.


----------



## FearAndTrembling (Jun 5, 2013)

I honestly think INFJ is the most romantic and passionate type. That doesn't mean they are the most committed though. An INFJ is more likely to put intense focus on their partner. ENF spread themselves around more. They are more likely to open up and be friendly with more people than INF, so it is more powerful when an INF does it. I have dated extroverts, and some talk to everybody about anything. I kind of feel like I fade into the background. Only slightly more important than the rest of the people in the environment.


----------



## Despotic Nepotist (Mar 1, 2014)

wums said:


> I really doubt that is true if we're talking healthy people. I think a lot of men just have compartmentalized their emotions, NFs being no exception, so ultimately they don't know what they truly want and they get in the wrong relationships.


I agree with what @wums said. In many cultures (American culture is DEFINITELY guilty of this), it is a societal expectation for men to maintain an image and a personality of being "tough", which means that regardless of type, you will see that men will often repress their softer, more tender sides and thus, those males who do display their emotions are often called "wussies". That is why INFJ males might seem like some other type at first. (INFJ males are mostly mistaken from INTJs in my experience).

I'm a guy. I know.


----------



## Endless Rainbows (Oct 1, 2014)

Not to derail the thread but let's create a new masculinity that honors the feelings of men. It is ok to be gentle and tender. This macho, cold, stoic man archetype has got to go. Humanity is changing, let's get with the times. Hear, hear.


----------



## FearAndTrembling (Jun 5, 2013)

Endless Rainbows said:


> Not to derail the thread but let's create a new masculinity that honors the feelings of men. It is ok to be gentle and tender. This macho, cold, stoic man archetype has got to go. Humanity is changing, let's get with the times. Hear, hear.


Most men don't want to explore their feelings. Male psychology is totally unexplored, and nobody seems to care. Women do like men who aren't afraid to show feelings though. Getting many men to even talk is a chore. Much less about their feelings. They love strong men who can talk about their feelings, because it is so rare. I have said that Bruce Lee is a perfect example of this. Even Jung. Women loved Jung. Because he talked about feelings. lol. Anyway, many people think Bruce Lee is an ISTP. He is an INFJ. He is very sensitive and talks about his feelings, but he is strong and intense too. 

I recently saw a note he wrote his future wife, shortly after they started dating. His daughter posted it on Facebook. Only an NF male would write something like this:

*In 1963, my father, Bruce Lee, gave my mother, Linda a photo of himself with a note on the back. They had only been dating for a very short time. I love what he wrote. Words of wisdom.

In case you can’t read what it says,
To live content with small means; to seek elegance rather than luxury, and refinement rather than fashion, to be worthy, not respectable and wealthy, not rich; to study hard, think quietly, talk gently act frankly; to bear all cheerfully, do all bravely, await occasions, hurry never. In other words, to let the spiritual, unbidden and unconscious, grow up through the common. - Bruce Oct 20 1963
*


----------



## InspectorDoohickey (Nov 12, 2012)

Aert said:


> "Curiously, it appears that female Idealists are able to sustain the roman- ticism invested in a relationship longer than male Idealists. But for the male NF, anticipation can be more attractive than consummation, and *the love which he believes will be perfect and undying can co~e to seem ordinary and inadequate in the harsh light of everyday reality*. And so, after the physical side of the relationship has lost its mystery, some male NFs can become disinterested and hunger after another fantasy, feeling compelled (if only in their imagination) to pursue the dream of a larger-than-life goddess who will satisfy all their desires and be wife, mother, and mistress to them."
> - David Keirsey, Please Understand Me 2
> 
> To think that once again females get the shorter end of the stick, makes me very sad. I've always been looking out for male NFs, thinking that they would be able to match me in love 'ability'. Picture a candle with an intense flame that never goes out and That's my ideal of love (don't take it literally). Neither partner thinks about anyone else romantically or otherwise, ever. Both are as in love as in the beginning and nothing goes stale. It's not a matter of sacrificing passion for stability, when you have both in equally high amounts. It makes me so disappointed to think that even male NFs can be pleasure/experience-oriented in relationships. I just wish that female and male NFs had the same capacity for love. I know I shouldn't believe everything I read, but this is coming from David Keirsey. Reading this just destroyed my hopes that I could find someone like myself.
> ...


This entire quote rings true for me. And it's a problem that comes from a place of cowardice and fear, I lack the balls it takes to invest myself to an actual relationship. I want to fall in love before I have to open up, and share the most miserable parts of me. I want to fall in love without risk, but that's just not possible. I'm not afraid express my emotion, and to work on improving relationships. This is literally my only obstacle in being as passionate and committed as I used to be.


----------



## Aert (Jul 17, 2014)

Endless Rainbows said:


> Not to derail the thread but let's create a new masculinity that honors the feelings of men. It is ok to be gentle and tender. This macho, cold, stoic man archetype has got to go. Humanity is changing, let's get with the times. Hear, hear.


Let's start a social revolution :')


----------



## Endless Rainbows (Oct 1, 2014)

Aert said:


> Let's start a social revolution :')


What better than some idealistic INFJ's and ENFJ's to start said social revolution? I'm encouraged by sites like ManKind Project that encourages an emotionally mature, compassionate man.


----------



## Kebachi (May 27, 2014)

Aert said:


> "Curiously, it appears that female Idealists are able to sustain the roman- ticism invested in a relationship longer than male Idealists. But for the male NF, anticipation can be more attractive than consummation, and the love which he believes will be perfect and undying can co~e to seem ordinary and inadequate in the harsh light of everyday reality. And so, after the physical side of the relationship has lost its mystery, some male NFs can become disinterested and hunger after another fantasy, feeling compelled (if only in their imagination) to pursue the dream of a larger-than-life goddess who will satisfy all their desires and be wife, mother, and mistress to them."
> - David Keirsey, Please Understand Me 2
> 
> To think that once again females get the shorter end of the stick, makes me very sad. I've always been looking out for male NFs, thinking that they would be able to match me in love 'ability'. Picture a candle with an intense flame that never goes out and That's my ideal of love (don't take it literally). Neither partner thinks about anyone else romantically or otherwise, ever. Both are as in love as in the beginning and nothing goes stale. It's not a matter of sacrificing passion for stability, when you have both in equally high amounts. It makes me so disappointed to think that even male NFs can be pleasure/experience-oriented in relationships. I just wish that female and male NFs had the same capacity for love. I know I shouldn't believe everything I read, but this is coming from David Keirsey. Reading this just destroyed my hopes that I could find someone like myself.
> ...


lol, very interesting. The sad fact is that I think I fall under the fantasizing aspect of thinking about what it'd be like with other more idealized mates, while my husband (who is an ENTP) is completely enamored with me to this day and who's fantasies are always about me and him. I think NT's are probably more likely to be the most steadfast and loyal lovers. NF's minds (male and female alike) wander too much about completely impractical scenarios that would never work out in reality. NT's can be pretty passionate, you'd be surprised.


----------



## Aert (Jul 17, 2014)

Endless Rainbows said:


> What better than some idealistic INFJ's and ENFJ's to start said social revolution? I'm encouraged by sites like ManKind Project that encourages an emotionally mature, compassionate man.


Ahah it kinda makes me wonder if there'll be a project for women to be more logical. I can't imagine the name of it, but I can see it happening.


----------



## wums (Nov 25, 2013)

MindPersonified said:


> I agree with what @wums said. In many cultures (American culture is DEFINITELY guilty of this), it is a societal expectation for men to maintain an image and a personality of being "tough", which means that regardless of type, you will see that men will often repress their softer, more tender sides and thus, those males who do display their emotions are often called "wussies". That is why INFJ males might seem like some other type at first. (INFJ males are mostly mistaken from INTJs in my experience).
> 
> I'm a guy. I know.



Oh definitely. I think the stereotypes are actually a little backward. At their core, INFJs think and act in a rational way, it just comes out emotionally charged. Whereas INTJs are outwardly logical but their actual motivations are irrational.

INFJ can be social chameleons too, and should be very aware of how their behavior is perceived, so they wouldn't think much of roleplaying to achieve a desired harmony, which in a traditional male role would be very far from their real personality. But on topic, INTJ probably has more staying power though, because INFJs are ultimately prone to upgrading when someone more perfect comes along :s

Moral of the story, date INTJ guys if you want it to last, because they really should be honorary NFs. Or be sure you're perfect for the INFJ, who, at the very least, is not experience-oriented by a longshot!


----------



## Aert (Jul 17, 2014)

@wums
Huh. Does it last with the intjs because they're can't be bothered to cheat? To me, they seem like very dispassionate people, the type to passionately propose in a fit of...obligation ._. 
Also, I think it would last if their partner was a T type, preferably NT. The relationship would last because the two would be so into their whatevers and forget that human connections matter.
Sorry, but Intj don't really seem to like humans. My brother is an intj and he's a jerk. Ah I'm sorry, I know that we're all individuals and type doesn't determine your true self blah blah, but ugh, I feel like the romance would be so plain bread. I think I'm just ranting at my brother now, I apologise if I offended anyone, but the good thing about intj is that they don't care what you think of them. Ya get it? They just don't care.

Here're Another example of what I'm trying to get at. Imagine you're married to a computer, and you guys are together for the rest of your lives. The computer will never think about cheating on you, physically, emotionally or otherwise. However, it also feels nothing for you, but it requires you to turn it on (no pun intended) everyday, so it'll stick with you.


----------



## wums (Nov 25, 2013)

Aert said:


> @wums
> Huh. Does it last with the intjs because they're can't be bothered to cheat? To me, they seem like very dispassionate people, the type to passionately propose in a fit of...obligation ._.
> Also, I think it would last if their partner was a T type, preferably NT. The relationship would last because the two would be so into their whatevers and forget that human connections matter.
> Sorry, but Intj don't really seem to like humans. My brother is an intj and he's a jerk. Ah I'm sorry, I know that we're all individuals and type doesn't determine your true self blah blah, but ugh, I feel like the romance would be so plain bread. I think I'm just ranting at my brother now, I apologise if I offended anyone, but the good thing about intj is that they don't care what you think of them. Ya get it? They just don't care.
> ...


Well I think it's really interesting that you should make that misunderstanding though, as an INFP, who themselves are misunderstood a lot because they can't express their emotional depth. If your brother is really an INTJ, he uses Fi, just like you do, which means he has a deep inner set of feelings and values. INTJs can be pretty emo though because most likely, they grow up not being liked or understood by many people, so their Fi tells them that people suck, people will hurt them, they don't deserve to be treated right anyway, feelings are bad, etc.

But the stock INTJ comes with the ability to be passionate, emotional, loving, all that. Again, they just might have had it beaten down over the years, and unfortunately it's not like one of them would dare to see a therapist and get it sorted out, I mean, after all that, why would they trust people anyway? Again, most men these days are out of touch with their feelings, but that doesn't mean they don't have 'em, not by any stretch. It's just people's expectations, a lot of culture, a lot of specific treatment, that shape them into that. Have you ever thought about which types have emotionally healthy men more often? It's mostly the dom or aux Fe users, because they get rewarded for expressing their feelings. If they couldn't easily express them, people would have just assumed they didn't have any. And look at what you're doing, you're perpetuating it. You're calling your INTJ brother a jerk. You're writing him off, that's why he stays as a jerk. And you use Te just like he does, and rush to judgment and act like that, so there yah go. look at you being a jerk.. INFP and INTJ: Match made in heaven? 

Sorry, I was kinda sarcastic there, kind of a jerk. Because of my feelings. Feelings are what make people be a jerk, consider that, but unlike an INTJ I fortunately have no problem expressing my feelings, so people don't treat me like crap all the time over some assmption about what goes on in my head. What kind of robot would be a jerk anyway? Meanness is an emotional thing, not rational, and nobody spontaneously becomes mean unless someone was mean to them before. It's a vicious, emotional cycle, so please go tell your brother you love him, okay? He's not supposed to not care. It's not healthy, and I did say I was talking about healthy people here. What you need to remember about YOUR type is that frequently your negative feelings are aimed at a problem that doesn't even exist, or is nowhere near as simple as you think it is. So to put it this way, your biggest problem in love is that even if someone loved you as much as you longed for, you wouldn't realize it just because they struggle to say it. Think about your contribution to the problem, and eventually you'll find someone else willing to do the same. I'm sure your intentions are entirely pure, but umh, you know what they say about good intentions. :x

Disclaimer: I have nothing against you, I'm not trying to be mean, I'm not saying or thinking you did anything wrong, I'm just hoping you'll think about the real issue here, which is miscommunications, and bad expectations that really hurt people over time. They really do. And anyone can break the cycle, but everyone's so stuck in it, ugh, it frustrates me


----------



## Aert (Jul 17, 2014)

@wums mind= blown. You should be a therapist/counsellor...
Nah I get that you weren't trying to offend me, it's cool.


----------



## Aert (Jul 17, 2014)

@wums sorry, I have an off-topic question. My brother has told me he hates 'stupid people', and that I'm not smart (this was in two separate occasions) repeatedly. Also, when I tell him about my problems, he tells me he doesn't give a fxxx. Is this the intj mask or does he really just dislike me?


----------



## Kurt Wagner (Aug 2, 2014)

Isn't this better explained by using instinctual variants?

I'm an sx/sp and I pretty much am among those that want to experience an ever lasting passion. 



Aert said:


> @wums sorry, I have an off-topic question. My brother has told me he hates 'stupid people', and that I'm not smart (this was in two separate occasions) repeatedly. Also, when I tell him about my problems, he tells me he doesn't give a fxxx. Is this the intj mask or does he really just dislike me?


Might be either one of them. There's just... too little information.


----------



## Llyralen (Sep 4, 2017)

I find NF males to be everything they should be and I adore you guys.


----------



## temptingthesea (May 7, 2018)

I love the gentle intensity of NF males, to be honest.


----------



## Markolise (Nov 29, 2016)

I'm an Infp male, would love to have a committed relationship with someone that gets me, but women aren't interested. I've been single since 2007.
So I'm on the same page with what some of the other nf males have said, girls seem to be more choosey, and or not attracted to me. Ive pretty much given up in dating because of it.


----------



## Etiennette (Mar 8, 2017)

Markolise said:


> I'm an Infp male, would love to have a committed relationship with someone that gets me, but women aren't interested. I've been single since 2007.
> So I'm on the same page with what some of the other nf males have said, girls seem to be more choosey, and or not attracted to me. Ive pretty much given up in dating because of it.


Please don’t give up, there is someone out there who will one day realize what a wonderful, charming person you are. As a girl I can tell you that yes, I am extremely selective with who I hang out with and especially with who I date. 

I want to help you, but I want to be honest with you as well. Confidence is a huge factor for me when someone asks me if I want to date them. You’re probably expecting me to tell you to “man up” or something, but that’s entirely different. Confidence isn’t blind arrogance or abiding to stereotypes of an “alpha male”. It’s knowing that you have control over your actions and thoughts. If I can’t sense this in a person who’s interested in me, I get a vibe of instability and I can’t rely on them when the going gets rough. 

You believe women aren’t interested in you. But what if you’re telling yourself that to excuse yourself from finding a partner that genuinely loves you for who you are? Take control of your thoughts and _burn that excuse in a fire_. My friend was once struggling with negative thoughts and I took that literally; just write any negative thought on paper and burn it away. Do it if you must, just find a way to shake off those thoughts.

I don’t know what happened to you personally, but I understand that sometimes people get stuck in caustic relationships or debilitating situations. You are allowed to cry, grieve, and feel hurt. That’s fine. It’s the process of gaining resilience. 

But never, ever, give up on yourself. Everything but that. _It doesn’t matter that you were single since 2007._ What does matter is what you do now, for yourself and your future.

And I think you should consider changing that signature. You haven’t killed the thread, but you need to stop letting yourself down whenever you post somewhere...and what, are you going to tell yourself that since you’re an NF male you don’t deserve love like everyone else in this world does? 

Don’t stop yet. 

I believe in you.


----------



## Row (Apr 28, 2018)

"Curiously, it appears that female Idealists are able to sustain the roman- ticism invested in a relationship longer than male Idealists. But for the male NF, anticipation can be more attractive than consummation, and the love which he believes will be perfect and undying can co~e to seem ordinary and inadequate in the harsh light of everyday reality. And so, after the physical side of the relationship has lost its mystery, some male NFs can become disinterested and hunger after another fantasy, feeling compelled (if only in their imagination) to pursue the dream of a larger-than-life goddess who will satisfy all their desires and be wife, mother, and mistress to them."

Just to go back to the original quote that started the thread, he says "some male NFs can become disinterested" which doesn't mean all male NFs are less commited. If I say "some people have 12 toes" it doesn't mean all people have 12 toes .
From what I've seen around me (and I know this is just empirical evidence), NF males seem to be the most commited in relationships, even when their partners break up with them, they try to make things work. 
Personally I don't "pursue the dream of a larger-than-life goddess who will satisfy all their desires and be wife, mother, and mistress to them", I just want someone that understands me and vice-versa, physical attraction does come into play but personally my standards are pretty low haha.
The reason my relationships don't work out is usually because I don't meet the expectations of my SO. Things I've heard before as reasons to break up:"you're just too introverted sorry", "You can be too childish sometimes" , something along the lines that I wasn't the parangon of manliness (paraphrasing here). 
Anyway the way I've experienced it, some girls aren't interested in the attributes of an NF, others think they want an NF male but actually they don't, and others actually know and want to date man with NF attributes.
So according to my very serious statistic , there is someone out there for everyone, it might be hard to find (or sometimes it's easy). But there is someone (or several people!) out there!


----------



## Markolise (Nov 29, 2016)

Etiennette said:


> Please don’t give up, there is someone out there who will one day.....


So far for me its been a month at least since this post, and it's still pretty valid. I've asked a few people out, one that I actually scheduled dates with, stood me up on all 4 but hey progress I guess.
At this point I figure I'll go out like Nikola Tesla. Don't get me wrong I'm as hopeful as I can be at this point. Just not going to waste my time anymore with trying to find someone.

Also killing the threads still seems pretty valid too.


----------



## L P (May 30, 2017)

DeadOutside said:


> I dont think it has got anything to do with gender and keirsey has got no fucking clue, but that's just my opinion.


*High five brother*amen!



Meh, I'm single because of me, not because some girl fails to see the specialness in me, I may have felt that way a ton of times but reality has rarely proved to me that women are repulsed by me, on the contrary actually just to brag a bit. Also I don't see how having a vagina makes one better at dealing with the mundane everyday in a relationship and having a penis does not. Where the hell did Keirsey get that from, who knows? Probably NFs males are running away from something that NF females are not? Gender role shit #genderroleproblems. TBH though because I'm an idealist that doesn't even try to be one, I do dream of that huge goddess lady thing he talks about, but I recognize that it's not real it's just that I am aware of ideal images in everything in life and in romance that would be the idea, but then you get into a relationship and see that reality (which may be less than the ideal) isn't bad actually.


----------



## HaloInReverse (Jul 18, 2018)

I really hope NF males are not like the OP description. Because I'm in a new relationship with an INFP male. 
I don't see how NF men would be less attractive to women (unless she's looking for the insensitive macho man type). But I think a lot, if not most, women appreciate a man who's sensitive.


----------



## Etiennette (Mar 8, 2017)

HaloInReverse said:


> I really hope NF males are not like the OP description. Because I'm in a new relationship with an INFP male.
> I don't see how NF men would be less attractive to women (unless she's looking for the insensitive macho man type). But I think a lot, if not most, women appreciate a man who's sensitive.


Congratulations on your new relationship, I hope you’re happy! :redface:

And yes, I believe that if your partner is sensitive to an extent it shows how emotionally healthy they are. Sometimes I talk to jocks and they suppress their emotions, which is unhealthy in the long run. There’s a few who are more tender, though, which I appreciate.


----------



## HaloInReverse (Jul 18, 2018)

Etiennette said:


> HaloInReverse said:
> 
> 
> > I really hope NF males are not like the OP description. Because I'm in a new relationship with an INFP male.
> ...


Thank you! 🙂

Yeah, I agree. I guess it's not all the man's fault when they try to suppress their emotions though, since they usually learn when growing up that they need to be tough. But I love when men show some emotion and have a sensitive side. 🙂


----------



## NIHM (Mar 24, 2014)

The NF males I know seem to be very committed even if they say their not. I watched one male ENFP stay in a relationship longer than he should of and had a hard time cutting the ties. 

I'm also very committed in all my relationships. Once someone has bonded with us we almost stick like glue. It just depends if you're new to us or if we trust you. If you're new it's easy for me to put someone on ignore and never talk to them again. If it's a bonded person I've known for years it's nearly impossible for me to ignore them or cut them out of my life.


----------



## CowardlyPal (Jul 9, 2018)

I would've assumed it was the other way round, but okay.


----------



## Veni Vidi Vici (Jun 8, 2018)

ENFJ males are probably the ultimate lady’s men. :smug:


----------



## Scottcowen (Sep 4, 2018)

Suposidly I'm an NF. And I am a male. And I agree with the statment of the anticipation is better then the consummation. But I dont think this is the issue here. I believe you are trying to use a personality type to repair your injury that you have just been given. But the only way to heal a would is to do violence to it. It must be ripped open and sterilized then dressed and stitched. It is way more painful then the original injury but if you dont want a latent pathogen to erode you internally then it must be done. I dont know your faith walk or if you even care but there are places of silence and healing you could travel to and place this injury in the consummate hands of one who knows your pain far more then even you may precieve it. Not all men are bad but sometimes we expect more then others are willing to sacrifice.


----------



## Monkey Queen (Sep 8, 2018)

Love them!


----------

