# Feminine/Masculine functions and degree of extroversion/introversion of functions



## aurora-rosa (Apr 11, 2021)

The Feeling functions are more feminine, while the Thinking functions are masculine.
The Perceptive functions are unisex.

This doesn't mean that men can't be F-dom, or that women can't T-dom, it's just that these functions carry classic female or male characteristics.

From the most extroverted to the most introverted:

Se > Fe > Ne > Te > Si > Ni > Ti > Fi

I base this on Jerome Kagan's "Inhibited / Uninhibited Temperament."

Se-doms are the most uninhibited and Fi-doms are the most inhibited.


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## Clare_Bare (Apr 6, 2015)

I get what you're saying, although I would align the functions differently.

Most extroverted:
Se | Te | Fe | Ne

Most introverted:
Ni | Fi | Ti | Si


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## aurora-rosa (Apr 11, 2021)

Clare_Bare said:


> I get what you're saying, although I would align the functions differently.
> 
> Most extroverted:
> Se | Te | Fe | Ne
> ...


Why is Te more extroverted than Fe?


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## Electra (Oct 24, 2014)

aurora-rosa said:


> The Feeling functions are more feminine, while the Thinking functions are masculine.
> The Perceptive functions are unisex.
> 
> This doesn't mean that men can't be F-dom, or that women can't T-dom, it's just that these functions carry classic female or male characteristics.
> ...


According to Helen Fisher Feelings are related to estrogen and oxytocin levels and thinking are related to testosterone.
However both genders have both hormones to greater or smaller degrees and these hormones also shapes our brains when we are babies. You can watch our finger length to find out which one you are. Thinkers usually have greater ring fingers while feelers usually have longer pointing fingers according to the theory.
Ethnicity can effect this to some degree but the impact on the personal skills are supposed to be small after all.
However there are some difference in which skills the person has because of this, but they are supposedly mostly impacted by other things, hormones apperently play a minor role.


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## Clare_Bare (Apr 6, 2015)

aurora-rosa said:


> Why is Te more extroverted than Fe?


Te has a strong need for continual expression, both in offering advice/instructions/etc and in seeking feedback/validation/etc.
Te's are quite verbal in this regard and you can consider it a masculine trait as you listed above.

With Fe, it is more of of a social perspective, the desire to share/assist/collaborate/support, etc.
Whilst Fe can be verbal, it is also a proximity vibe, you can _feel_ Fe to some extent.
It has that feminine aspect to it.

Generally, I notice Te far more than I do Fe in the people.


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## Eset (Jun 7, 2016)

Te is more psychologically extroverted, but Fe is more socially extroverted.
Se is pure extroversion, Ne is proxy extroversion.

I would say the Sensing and Thinking functions are more Masculine inclined, and the Intuitive and Feeling functions are more Feminine inclined.

With this we can structure the types like this:

ESTJ: Mm
ESTP: Mm
ISTJ: mM
ISTP: mM
ENTJ: Mf
ENTP: Fm
INTJ: fM
INTP: mF
ESFJ: Fm
ESFP: Mf
ISFJ: mF
ISFP: fM
ENFJ: Ff
ENFP: Ff
INFJ: fF
INFP: fF

Lower case shows Introverted, Upper case shows Extroverted.


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## DOGSOUP (Jan 29, 2016)

It's difficult to unsee how these ideas date back to Jung. He seems to imply that Ne dom women are typically relationship oriented:

"_Apparently this type is more prone to favour women than men; in which case, however, the intuitive activity reveals itself not so much in the professional as in the social sphere. Such women understand the art of utilizing every social opportunity; they establish right social connections; they seek out lovers with possibilities only to abandon everything again for the sake of a new possibility."_

(Is this because they were ENF types, or because women at the time it was the only way a woman could seek such potential fulfillment? I wonder.)

But he also said: "_As a rule, when thinking achieves the mastery in women, it is, in my experience, a kind of thinking which results from a prevailingly intuitive activity of mind."_

Thinking women are typically intuitive, but intuitive women are more so feelers? erm.


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## aurora-rosa (Apr 11, 2021)

Eset said:


> Te is more psychologically extroverted, but Fe is more socially extroverted.
> Se is pure extroversion, Ne is proxy extroversion.
> 
> I would say the Sensing and Thinking functions are more Masculine inclined, and the Intuitive and Feeling functions are more Feminine inclined.
> ...


People have the misconception that women are intuitive.
It is true that women evolved to perceive the image that people have of them, as it was necessary for women to have the help of the tribe to raise their children. But this is exactly Feeling, not intuition.

in mbti i would be infp, but i identify more with Si than with Ne


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## aurora-rosa (Apr 11, 2021)

DOGSOUP said:


> It's difficult to unsee how these ideas date back to Jung. He seems to imply that Ne dom women are typically relationship oriented:
> 
> "_Apparently this type is more prone to favour women than men; in which case, however, the intuitive activity reveals itself not so much in the professional as in the social sphere. Such women understand the art of utilizing every social opportunity; they establish right social connections; they seek out lovers with possibilities only to abandon everything again for the sake of a new possibility."_
> 
> ...


Feeling and Sensation = instinct
Thinking and Intuition = intellect 
?


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## mia-me (Feb 5, 2021)

Eset said:


> Te is more psychologically extroverted, but Fe is more socially extroverted.
> Se is pure extroversion, Ne is proxy extroversion.
> 
> I would say the Sensing and Thinking functions are more Masculine inclined, and the Intuitive and Feeling functions are more Feminine inclined.
> ...


Premised on gender role archetypes, agreed.


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## Eset (Jun 7, 2016)

aurora-rosa said:


> People have the misconception that women are intuitive.
> It is true that women evolved to perceive the image that people have of them, as it was necessary for women to have the help of the tribe to raise their children. But this is exactly Feeling, not intuition.
> 
> in mbti i would be infp, but i identify more with Si than with Ne


Basing my model from the Yin Yang system.


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## mia-me (Feb 5, 2021)

Aka, gender role archetypes.


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## DOGSOUP (Jan 29, 2016)

aurora-rosa said:


> Feeling and Sensation = instinct
> Thinking and Intuition = intellect
> ?


I remembered reading this article about the 5 levels of feeling. I think it basically argues that the basis of feeling is very oriented around the sensory/instinctual (safety) and through levels of values, organization of experiences and relationships has the potential to "elevate" to something _mystical_ (and I don't think it only applies to NF types). While I really liked that article it's also true that feeling evades these types of confines and definitions.


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## aurora-rosa (Apr 11, 2021)

Eset said:


> Basing my model from the Yin Yang system.


what does "negative charge" mean?


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## aerstyu (Mar 3, 2021)

aurora-rosa said:


> The Feeling functions are more feminine, while the Thinking functions are masculine.
> The Perceptive functions are unisex.
> 
> This doesn't mean that men can't be F-dom, or that women can't T-dom, it's just that these functions carry classic female or male characteristics.


I agree with this - as a Ti user, compared to most of the females I associate with everyday, I am definitely not as sensitive as them. With my Ti + Se combo, I take on a very objective standpoint for pretty much everything. In unpredictable situations, most of the females I know say, "I feel scared for what's about to come, can I just avoid it somehow?" while my mindset is more like, "It's going to happen, we all knew this, all I can do is brace myself. This is just reality."

As an ISTP female, I do feel different from most females, and sometimes I tend to get along with males more easily, as ISTP males are a lot more common than ISTP females (8.5% of males vs 2.3% of females according to Careerplanner).



> From the most extroverted to the most introverted:
> 
> Se > Fe > Ne > Te > Si > Ni > Ti > Fi


I agree that Se is very extroverted - not necessarily _socially_ extroverted, as I have strong Se and come off as socially introverted most of the time - but out of all the extroverted functions, Se is going to be the most likely to stay in tune with the outside world.


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## mia-me (Feb 5, 2021)

aerstyu said:


> I agree that Se is very extroverted - not necessarily _socially_ extroverted, as I have strong Se and come off as socially introverted most of the time - but out of all the extroverted functions, Se is going to be the most likely to stay in tune with the outside world.


That's because functions don't happen in the vacuum. It's to do with the Fe in some Se users. As an ISTP, Fe is your inferior function so you won't be as people oriented as ESTPs who have Fe as their relief/tertiary function.


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## aerstyu (Mar 3, 2021)

mia-me said:


> That's because functions don't happen in the vacuum. It's to do with the Fe in some Se users. As an ISTP, Fe is your inferior function so you won't be as people oriented as ESTPs who have Fe as their relief/tertiary function.


Sure - I do agree that Fe/Te contributes to how socially extroverted one is, and I do think that Fe-doms and Te-doms are probably the most people-oriented types. But with regards to just staying tuned to the outside world (not necessarily people), I still think Se would top the others because of how Se users usually tend to be in the "here and now." They are grounded in the outer world's present moment.


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## mia-me (Feb 5, 2021)

aerstyu said:


> Sure - I do agree that Fe/Te contributes to how socially extroverted one is, and I agree that Fe-doms and Te-doms are probably the most people-oriented types. But with regards to just staying tuned to the outside world (not necessarily people), I still think Se would top the others because of how Se users usually tend to be in the "here and now." They are grounded in the outer world's present moment.


Te isn't people oriented. It's logic, efficiency, organization and goals oriented. If people are required within this framework, then they can become part of the focus. If not, then no.


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## Fru2 (Aug 21, 2018)

Most objectively extraverted - Se and Te
Most socially extraverted - Fe and Ne
The two functions in each set are most likely to be strong in males and females respectively.
Most socially introverted - Ni and Fi
Most subjective - Si and Ti


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## Eset (Jun 7, 2016)

aurora-rosa said:


> what does "negative charge" mean?


Referring to attraction. Negative as in South magnetic field, and Positive as in North magnetic field. 
Yin is South because it is concerned about what is below, Yang is North because it is concerned about what is above.


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## aurora-rosa (Apr 11, 2021)

Electra said:


> I also found this picture, maybe it fits with anyones fingerlength?
> I am a female but it seems from this picture my face is more average or masculine :O
> It measures the prenatal testosterones' effect on the face and fingers.
> 
> View attachment 877036


most women I know have an average face.


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## Electra (Oct 24, 2014)

aurora-rosa said:


> most women I know have an average face.


You can see my face here. Just look at my eyebrows.Idk.


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## mia-me (Feb 5, 2021)

I'd be careful of adhering to the digit ratio theory or Fisher's theory of testosterone levels relative to Ts. The former is still being disputed where some studies haven't agreed with the findings and the latter, hasn't been proven.


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## mia-me (Feb 5, 2021)

Electra said:


> You can see my face here. Just look at my eyebrows.Idk.
> View attachment 877039


What's your digit ratio?


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## Electra (Oct 24, 2014)

mia-me said:


> What's your digit ratio?


I can't tell. Every time I draw a conclution I start to doubt it again, because if I twist my hand to this or that angle, or turn it around, then...


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## mia-me (Feb 5, 2021)

Electra said:


> I can't tell. Every time I draw a conclution I start to doubt it again, because if I twist my hand to this or that angle, or turn it around, then...


Since the measurement is a ratio and not specific digit lengths, stretch out all your fingers with your palm facing you. Then measure. Then calc ratio.


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## Electra (Oct 24, 2014)

@mia-me I'd take a picture of it but unfortunetly my phone (and only camera) fell in the water a few days ago (so this photo I posted is from last year.)
If I stretch my hands out palm down or away it seems my ring finger is a bit longer (maybe just a few millimeters) but it I turn the palm towards me it seems like the opposite. I think they might be equal.
How about you then?


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## mia-me (Feb 5, 2021)

Electra said:


> @mia-me I'd take a picture of it but unfortunetly my phone (and only camera) fell in the water a few days ago (so this photo I posted is from last year.)
> If I stretch my hands out palm down or away it seems my ring finger is a bit longer (maybe just a few millimeters) but it I turn the palm towards me it seems like the opposite. I think they might be equal.
> How about you then?


You're measuring different starting points at the base of your fingers. Stretch your hand out, palm facing towards you. Measure from the lowest line to the tip of your fingers (of course, disregard nails).


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## Electra (Oct 24, 2014)

They seem equal to me.


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## mia-me (Feb 5, 2021)

Electra said:


> They seem equal to me.


Since you and I are typical examples of feelers and thinkers but have similar digit ratios, what does that say about Fisher's T-level theory?


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## mia-me (Feb 5, 2021)

Out of nowhere, this thread and orangutans crossed my mind. Female orangutans prefer males with larger cheek flanges since they point to maturation, resulting from testosterone levels spiking during their form of puberty. But there are males who don't grow flanges, even up to 20 years. It's posited that this was evolution at work, since males with flanges are challenged more during mating season so smaller males without flanges flew under the challenge radar but still got laid, albeit not near as often as the males with flanges. 

This reminded of testosterone biomarkers, particularly in male faces. More defined and square jawlines appear to be such, the human equivalent of flanges.


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## Eset (Jun 7, 2016)

My ring finger is just a few mm longer than my index finger.


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## Fru2 (Aug 21, 2018)

Eset said:


> My ring finger is just a few mm longer than my index finger.


same, middle finger topping them both by about a centimeter


mia-me said:


> You're aware that primitive women hunted too, right?


I see, so pregnant women or women with small kids went out to hunt bearing in mind the risk of no return? Quite the multitaskers!


> What you're seeing nowadays are women having the choice to remain barefoot and pregnant or working. Relative to competing, may the best person get the job and if some men are threatened by this, they're aware they're not the best person for the job and can't compete.


No, what I'm saying is that women have the gift of raising up the next generation and instead they dumbishly choose to compete for some made up tokens for the sake of their inflated ego, outsourcing the raising up of their kids to the state(if they even have any) but I guess that 'showing the men how work is done' is a much greater and nobler concern? People tend to forget nowadays that for any humans to exist a future generation needs to be raised up.


DOGSOUP said:


> What about feeler men?


In charge of group cohesion(leadership position)? Left to guard the women and next generation? Negotiating with different tribes? Not to say that women can't be leading over a tribe, that would be perfectly logical.


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## Electra (Oct 24, 2014)

mia-me said:


> Since you and I are typical examples of feelers and thinkers but have similar digit ratios, what does that say about Fisher's T-level theory?


Well. If you look at my finger they make and equal line at the top where the nail are but not at the bottom where the lines are. Does that make sence to you? If you meassure it that way my ringfinger would be 1 millimeter or two longer I suppose...But it's hard to tell.
There are two problems when it comes to evidence and one is that after how you hold your camera the meassurement looks different.

The other problem is that I suspect there is a built in "prettyfy-filter" on my phone that makes my face different, for example I suspect it might be changing my jawline and eyes.
Here is a resent picture.


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## mia-me (Feb 5, 2021)

Fru2 said:


> I see, so pregnant women or women with small kids went out to hunt bearing in mind the risk of no return? Quite the multitaskers!


Yes. Small game hunting including deer and gathering were the norm for women. Relative to small children, it appears that having others mind children and that children ran wild back then, doesn't factor in your mind.



> No, what I'm saying is that women have the gift of raising up the next generation and instead they dumbishly choose to compete for some made up tokens for the sake of their inflated ego, outsourcing the raising up of their kids to the state(if they even have any) but I guess that 'showing the _wo_men how work is done' is a much greater and nobler concern? People tend to forget nowadays that for any humans to exist a future generation needs to be raised up.


By reversing the genders, it should illustrate to you how silly these comments.



Electra said:


> Does that make sence to you?


You're mismeasuring/jacking around but that's okay, never mind.


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## Electra (Oct 24, 2014)

mia-me said:


> Yes. Small game hunting including deer and gathering were the norm for women. Relative to small children, it appears that having others mind children and that children ran wild back then, doesn't factor in your mind.
> 
> By reversing the genders, it should illustrate to you how silly these comments.
> 
> You're mismeasuring/jacking around but that's okay, never mind.


Why is that?
And did you see what I meen about the fingerlengths apperently "changing" after how I hold or angle my hands?
And what do you think about the inbuilt function I mentioned?


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## Fru2 (Aug 21, 2018)

mia-me said:


> Yes. Small game hunting including deer and gathering were the norm for women. Relative to small children, it appears that having others mind children and that children ran wild back then, doesn't factor in your mind.


"Experts say" should be added. I've seen how experts work, and I'd rather not outsource my judgments to them.


> By reversing the genders, it should illustrate to you how silly these comments.


You're right, it works perfectly when the gender is reversed as well, shows you how stupid it is to compete for made up tokens while letting your kids get brainwashed to the point of identifying the state as their actual mother and father. I wonder why elderly people die sad and alone in nursing homes without ever having fully known their children?


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## mia-me (Feb 5, 2021)

Fru2 said:


> "Experts say" should be added. I've seen how experts work, and I'd rather not outsource my judgments to them.


So you prefer to fabricate prehistory because that's more convenient?



> You're right, it works perfectly when the gender is reversed as well, shows you how stupid it is to compete for made up tokens while letting your kids get brainwashed to the point of identifying the state as their actual mother and father. I wonder why elderly people die sad and alone in nursing homes without ever having fully known their children?


Unless your country restricts daycare to state run institutions, I have no idea what you're talking about. As far as the elderly left to die sad and alone in nursing homes, this will vary per family. Some do, others don't. Perhaps sons should ask themselves why they're leaving their parents or grandparents to die sad and alone in nursing homes.


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## Fru2 (Aug 21, 2018)

mia-me said:


> So you prefer to fabricate prehistory because that's more convenient?


I don't fabricate prehistory, I refuse to abide by a formed premises that someone I don't know and can't interact with created just because it is stated as official. Especially if I see logical and motivational discrepencies therein. I've gone through the process of questioning my own rhetoric through being exposed to all countering facades of reality I could find and truly absorb myself in the mindset of the writers. Time and time again have I proven myself wrong until I gained a direction towards a more sensible way of knowing than that of blind belief in whatever any book says.
Let me ask you - what do you base your belief of prehistory on?


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## mia-me (Feb 5, 2021)

Fru2 said:


> I don't fabricate prehistory, I refuse to abide by a formed premises that someone I don't know and can't interact with created just because it is stated as official. Especially if I see logical and motivational discrepencies therein. I've gone through the process of questioning my own rhetoric through being exposed to all countering facades of reality I could find and truly absorb myself in the mindset of the writers. Time and time again have I proven myself wrong until I gained a direction towards a more sensible way of knowing than that of blind belief in whatever any book says.
> Let me ask you - what do you base your belief of prehistory on?


From assorted sources like the Smithsonian, Nat Geo, studies, etc. Also, in Peru, there's evidence that women were big game hunters.

Primitive people did what was necessary to survive where gender roles are a more recent invention. Same goes for the nucular family and yes, that was misspelled deliberately.


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## Fru2 (Aug 21, 2018)

mia-me said:


> From assorted sources like the Smithsonian, Nat Geo, studies, etc. Also, in Peru, there's evidence that women were big game hunters.


I'm sure there are outliers, but a woman has a womb for a reason and a man is usually more intimidating in stature for a reason, and it's not cultural, it's genetic. That is something I can see and you can see is the norm, not an outlier. 
So you outsource your judgment to a consensus-based and interest-based private firms who gaintheir income from publishing new information about history/prehistory.. I don't see why they wouldn't fabricate or hide anything!
Oh wait a sec, they have already been forced to admit to doing so in the past through a courtcase:








Smithsonian Admits to Destruction of Thousands of Giant Human Skeletons in Early 1900's


A US Supreme Court ruling has forced the Smithsonian institution to release classified papers dating from the early 1900's that proves the organization was involved in a major historical cover-up. The cover-up allegedly destroyed evidence showing giant human remains in the tens of thousands had bee



worldnewsdailyreport.com




What do prehistory exports have to say about giant humans?


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## mia-me (Feb 5, 2021)

Fru2 said:


> I'm sure there are outliers, but a woman has a womb for a reason and a man is usually more intimidating in stature for a reason, and it's not cultural, it's genetic. That is something I can see and you can see is the norm, not an outlier.
> So you outsource your judgment to a consensus-based and interest-based private firms who gaintheir income from publishing new information about history/prehistory.. I don't see why they wouldn't fabricate or hide anything!
> Oh wait a sec, they have already been forced to admit to doing so in the past through a courtcase:
> 
> ...


No wonder our world views deviate, LMAO! That's satire, darlin'.









Did the Smithsonian Destroy Thousands of Giant Human Skeletons?


Did the Smithsonian destroy recovered skeletons of giant humanoids to preserve the narrative of evolution?




www.snopes.com


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

aurora-rosa said:


> The Feeling functions are more feminine, while the Thinking functions are masculine.
> The Perceptive functions are unisex.
> 
> This doesn't mean that men can't be F-dom, or that women can't T-dom, it's just that these functions carry classic female or male characteristics.
> ...



How does attributing gender labels to the functions help in any way? I am unable to discern any sort of added value or meaning here.


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## Behnam Agahi (Oct 27, 2020)

Electra said:


> Well. If you look at my finger they make and equal line at the top where the nail are but not at the bottom where the lines are. Does that make sence to you? If you meassure it that way my ringfinger would be 1 millimeter or two longer I suppose...But it's hard to tell.
> There are two problems when it comes to evidence and one is that after how you hold your camera the meassurement looks different.
> 
> The other problem is that I suspect there is a built in "prettyfy-filter" on my phone that makes my face different, for example I suspect it might be changing my jawline and eyes.
> ...


Wow finally I had the opportunity to see your picture 😛
You look beautiful. If I want to be more exact you look like a Viking. I know that you're from Norway but that face completely reminds me of the word Viking (I mean it as a complement because I don't get to see a Viking in my life)
So mature and strong looking for your age 😁 (I look like a child compared to you 😂)
Mine is a little complicated. I guess I'm from the feminine group even that I'm a male so I might be a feeler but my fingers doesn't add up 😑😂
I look like a mess currently and I have to take a shower soon, so sorry about it.



















Edit: This picture is really better


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## Fru2 (Aug 21, 2018)

mia-me said:


> No wonder our world views deviate, LMAO! That's satire, darlin'.







__





Destruction of Thousands of Giant Human Skeletons in Early 1900’s ?







blog.world-mysteries.com




The courtcase article might be a false one to cover a suspicion, you're rejecting it way too soon for the sake of your own interest. Robert Sepehr for example will have a different take on it, and institutions with a private interest _will_ do what it takes to cover up tracks. But go on, continue to rely on main sources of science and fact checking to adapt your view on things to the current official status quo, I'm sure that if we all did that we'd be in a much better place.


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## Eset (Jun 7, 2016)

This thread is a mess.
@Fru2 @mia-me
If you're going to have a debate, least keep it to the thread's topic.
You're both grasping at straws, without seeing how far off you've diverted.


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## Electra (Oct 24, 2014)

Behnam Agahi said:


> Wow finally I had the opportunity to see your picture 😛
> You look beautiful. If I want to be more exact you look like a Viking. I know that you're from Norway but that face completely reminds me of the word Viking (I mean it as a complement because I don't get to see a Viking in my life)
> So mature and strong looking for your age 😁 (I look like a child compared to you 😂)
> Mine is a little complicated. I guess I'm from the feminine group even that I'm a male so I might be a feeler but my fingers doesn't add up 😑😂
> ...


Hey Behnam! Thank you so much! 😃 It was so great to ser your picture, it's so good to see a face behind all the text, that there is a living human behind it 🙂 Good to see you look healthy and happy! 🙂 Haha, a viking? Maybe some of my ancestry were? The NDA company keeps coming up with new conclutions, lol. So fare it seems likely. When I look at your hands you seem to me to have a longer ringfinger though. What do you think?


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## DOGSOUP (Jan 29, 2016)

Fru2 said:


> In charge of group cohesion(leadership position)? Left to guard the women and next generation? Negotiating with different tribes? Not to say that women can't be leading over a tribe, that would be perfectly logical.


But what is the biological origin of it? Presuming child birth and child rearing is that for women.


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## Behnam Agahi (Oct 27, 2020)

Electra said:


> Hey Behnam! Thank you so much! 😃 It was so great to ser your picture, it's so good to see a face behind all the text, that there is a living human behind it 🙂 Good to see you look healthy and happy! 🙂 Haha, a viking? Maybe some of my ancestry were? The NDA company keeps coming up with new conclutions, lol. So fare it seems likely. When I look at your hands you seem to me to have a longer ringfinger though. What do you think?


Oh thank you, I really mean it 😄
It's great to see you around too. Well I had heard about this test before but I really didn't have a clue whether it's accurate or not.
It's just as you say, they come up with completely empirical data with a certain condition and guess that it must be related somehow.
From my own experience that face thing is somehow correct, those with masculine faces usually appeared as cold and logical while those with sharp edges and feminine faces were more the feeling type.
About the ratio thing, I haven't come up with anything myself yet.


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## Fru2 (Aug 21, 2018)

DOGSOUP said:


> But what is the biological origin of it? Presuming child birth and child rearing is that for women.


Emotional support. Enforcement of ethical boundaries and group cohesion. I think Fe would've been one of the most vital functions back in the day before informational manipulation took hold of herd steering techniques by utilizing human empathy as a weapon. Do you think we're currently living in a world where Fe can flourish and showcase its full potential? I personally don't, since families and tribal structures have been completely obliterated for the sake of keeping the individual more vulnerable and more adhering to unnatural self proclaimed authorities. Humans have important biological needs, which Fe takes care of and is being blocked from doing so the further we progress with technology. As well as being utilized to steer crowds into designed cultural coups that leave individuals in a weaker state.


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## aurora-rosa (Apr 11, 2021)

tanstaafl28 said:


> How does attributing gender labels to the functions help in any way? I am unable to discern any sort of added value or meaning here.


Have you read Jung? he said that Fi and Fe were more common in women. He spoke of these types in a feminine sense.
This is related to animus / anima.


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## aurora-rosa (Apr 11, 2021)

Fru2 said:


> Emotional support. Enforcement of ethical boundaries and group cohesion. I think Fe would've been one of the most vital functions back in the day before informational manipulation took hold of herd steering techniques by utilizing human empathy as a weapon. Do you think we're currently living in a world where Fe can flourish and showcase its full potential? I personally don't, since families and tribal structures have been completely obliterated for the sake of keeping the individual more vulnerable and more adhering to unnatural self proclaimed authorities. Humans have important biological needs, which Fe takes care of and is being blocked from doing so the further we progress with technology. As well as being utilized to steer crowds into designed cultural coups that leave individuals in a weaker state.


I think the same way.
With the destruction of the extended family in the West, people start to trust strangers.
The older women in the family guided the younger women, the older men guided the younger ones and today they don't have that..


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

aurora-rosa said:


> Have you read Jung? he said that Fi and Fe were more common in women. He spoke of these types in a feminine sense.
> This is related to animus / anima.


I have read some Jung. I'm not fully convinced he was right. He came from a similar place as Freud (although they had a famous break at some point). I think some of his terminology has been outmoded. 





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The unscientific nature of Jung's psychology - Cognitive Therapy


One of the earliest criticisms of Jung's work is that it is anti-scientific in its intentions as well as its content. This accusation surfaced as early as




www.europeanmedical.info


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## aurora-rosa (Apr 11, 2021)

tanstaafl28 said:


> I have read some Jung. I'm not fully convinced he was right. He came from a similar place as Freud (although they had a famous break at some point). I think some of his terminology has been outmoded.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


much of what he wrote was based on patients.
perhaps Fi and Fe women tend to do more therapy than men.

He believed that Freud was originally a Fi-dom who developed Te.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

aurora-rosa said:


> much of what he wrote was based on patients.
> perhaps Fi and Fe women tend to do more therapy than men.
> 
> He believed that Freud was originally a Fi-dom who developed Te.


Yes I think his population was skewed. A lot of the ideas about women at the turn of the last Century were couched in very patriarchal terms. In Switzerland, women did not get the vote until 1971. This does not mean Jung did not make some tremendous contributions to psychology. I particularly find his ideas about mythology and symbolism compelling. I just think it would be good to take a step back and make sure we are looking at this from a more balanced and modern perspective. I like the idea of combining some of Jungs ideas with celebrated mythologist Joseph Campbell (who referenced him constantly)






Jung and Gender: Masculine and Feminine Revisited


The Jung Page provides a wealth of educational resources related to C.G. Jung and depth psychology.




www.cgjungpage.org










Dismantling The Animus


The Jung Page provides a wealth of educational resources related to C.G. Jung and depth psychology.




www.cgjungpage.org













Joseph Campbell: His Life and Contributions


Myths provide guidance for difficult times. They can offer encouragement as we struggle to survive horrendous ordeals.




folkstory.com









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Joseph Campbell and the Myth of the Hero’s Journey


Myths of individuals undergoing heroic adventures as they attempt to actualize their higher potentials are abundant in many cultures throughout history.




academyofideas.com


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## Electra (Oct 24, 2014)

Behnam Agahi said:


> Oh thank you, I really mean it 😄
> It's great to see you around too. Well I had heard about this test before but I really didn't have a clue whether it's accurate or not.
> It's just as you say, they come up with completely empirical data with a certain condition and guess that it must be related somehow.
> From my own experience that face thing is somehow correct, those with masculine faces usually appeared as cold and logical while those with sharp edges and feminine faces were more the feeling type.
> About the ratio thing, I haven't come up with anything myself yet.


Hm I have met some males that seemes very nice with a very maskuline face too and vica versa so it's hard to say )) Maybe the upbringing and social influence etc. matters quit a bit or something like that...I have read that it matters very little though.


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## Behnam Agahi (Oct 27, 2020)

Electra said:


> Hm I have met some males that seemes very nice with a very maskuline face too and vica versa so it's hard to say )) Maybe the upbringing and social influence etc. matters quit a bit or something like that...I have read that it matters very little though.


Yeah I completely agree, we shouldn't judge a book by its cover ^_^
About the social influence I think it has a considerable impact. I have even thought about a society MBTI type 😂 for example I usually find northern european people to have more Fi and it's like they have an XXFP society. It's also the same with Australians.
I find latin and middle eastern people to have more Fe. Maybe it's just my mind I don't know 😂


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## Stevester (Feb 28, 2016)

Like I said many times when gender gets mixed in these discussions, it would avoid a lot of controversy and headaches if people just used aggressive and passive instead.


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## Fru2 (Aug 21, 2018)

tanstaafl28 said:


> I have read some Jung. I'm not fully convinced he was right. He came from a similar place as Freud (although they had a famous break at some point). I think some of his terminology has been outmoded.


Yet, Freud terminology has been fully embraced by psychologists. I agree that they both came from the same place, but Jung has far outgrown Freud when it comes to grasping the essence of the motivating archetypes within people. His attribution of the Anima to a man gets reflected in the woman in the form of the Kore, which an Anima is a part of the multiple ways in which her femininity could take shape, as the Kore is the larest factor in a woman's Self.
It's an interesting concept and never am I hearing of it outside of Jung's books, although it makes so much sense! The kore is essentially the Self of the woman, which extends her unconscious to her mother and daughter, sharing with them a place in the unconscious, hence why women are more intuitive and social than men. The Kore doesn't only extend in lineage, it represents itself to the individual through imagery in all the forms of the feminine, extending backwards in age, forwards in age, up to the 'heavens' and down to the abyss of consciousness. The Kore develops with the woman as consciousness gets developed, resulting in a wider range of archetypal representations for each of the directions of consciousness - starting from encountering a child, a mother, a priestess of the moon and a bear in unconscious states(such as dreams) and expanding towards the extremes of agge and blessing/destruction - a newborn, a millenium old crone, the sky goddess and a hellblazing dragon.

Discarding this exceptional quality of the feminine psyche and saying that it isn't attributed to gender removes the recognition of such an ability as it is not quantifiable in the masculine in the same manner - it's attributed to something the ego can't incorporate unless being possessed by the Anima. So what's really taking away from the importance of the feminine? The modern method of blurring the masculine with the feminine, or the old gender-defined attitudes which allow for such instances as the Kore to be addressed and developed?


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## aurora-rosa (Apr 11, 2021)

Fru2 said:


> Yet, Freud terminology has been fully embraced by psychologists. I agree that they both came from the same place, but Jung has far outgrown Freud when it comes to grasping the essence of the motivating archetypes within people. His attribution of the Anima to a man gets reflected in the woman in the form of the Kore, which an Anima is a part of the multiple ways in which her femininity could take shape, as the Kore is the larest factor in a woman's Self.
> It's an interesting concept and never am I hearing of it outside of Jung's books, although it makes so much sense! The kore is essentially the Self of the woman, which extends her unconscious to her mother and daughter, sharing with them a place in the unconscious, hence why women are more intuitive and social than men. The Kore doesn't only extend in lineage, it represents itself to the individual through imagery in all the forms of the feminine, extending backwards in age, forwards in age, up to the 'heavens' and down to the abyss of consciousness. The Kore develops with the woman as consciousness gets developed, resulting in a wider range of archetypal representations for each of the directions of consciousness - starting from encountering a child, a mother, a priestess of the moon and a bear in unconscious states(such as dreams) and expanding towards the extremes of agge and blessing/destruction - a newborn, a millenium old crone, the sky goddess and a hellblazing dragon.
> 
> Discarding this exceptional quality of the feminine psyche and saying that it isn't attributed to gender removes the recognition of such an ability as it is not quantifiable in the masculine in the same manner - it's attributed to something the ego can't incorporate unless being possessed by the Anima. So what's really taking away from the importance of the feminine? The modern method of blurring the masculine with the feminine, or the old gender-defined attitudes which allow for such instances as the Kore to be addressed and developed?


Introverted women inherit characteristics from their father? I am very much like my father. I feel uncomfortable with some types of clothing fabrics or labels, and he also has this characteristic.


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