# Philosophical Motivations of Types by V. Gulenko



## Word Dispenser (May 18, 2012)

Notes: Only part 6 of this article titled "Philosophy of Types" has been translated.
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(Article at 16types: Socionics - the16types.info - Philosophical Motivations of Types (Gulenko))

Thought this was an interesting read, worthy of sharing.



*6. Philosophy of Types*


The problem of incentives is closely related to the problem of existential motifs. This is a deeper and more abstract category, which I, as a representative of intuitive thinker class, would like to address in conclusion of this article. Each sociotype has its own existential outlook - a philosophically-oriented generalized concept of the driving force that directs other people and the world at large. From this particular interpretation it will follow how a type chooses to solve the question of the primacy of the material and the ideal. Those sociotypes whose motivation is primarily of material nature, I will conditionally call "materialists". All sensing types fall under this category. The opposing group of types, whose inner motivations are predominantly idealistic in nature, I will call "idealists". This group is comprised of all of the intuitive types.

As is known in philosophy, idealism can be divided into two branches - objective idealism, which recognizes in one shape or form the idea of god - external supra-material instance that governs the world, and subjective idealism, which supposes that our notions of the world are that which gives rise to it.

According to Jung, objective-oriented types are extraverts, subjective-oriented types are introverts. Consequently objective idealism is the philosophy of intuitive extraverts while subjective idealism - of intuitive introverts. In analogous manner this can be applied to the "materialist" sensing group: sensing introverts are thus subjective materialists while sensing extraverts are objective materialists. Different philosophical schools of thoughts will be treated rather loosely here, however, I am doing this for one purpose - to systematize existing observations about motivation of behavior on 16 levels.
Note: One should not forget that what is discussed here concerns motivations of types rather than concrete individuals - representatives of different types can embrace any philosophy.

Lets proceed to examine each type:


*1. Objective idealists (ENxx)*

- The Mentor (EIE): god, fate, destiny rule the world. This type is one of the most oriented at mysticism and religion, honestly believing in its own messiahood, seeing itself as a missionary for forces cosmic or divine.

- The Inventor (ILE): the universe is ruled by a universal intelligence. This sociotype more than others believes in ability of human mind to comprehend the most complex phenomena, in intelligent design of the objective world, in that it can be explained from the point of view of precise laws of logic. ("God does not play dice" - Einstein)

- The Psychologist (IEE): world is governed by a feeling that is more powerful than the individual; this is one of the most altruistic types that is capable of helping people not asking for anything in return. This type has a strong predisposition for empathy.

- The Entrepreneur (LIE): the creator of everything is living nature. This sociotype animates nature, itself becoming a dualist i.e. recognizing in equal measures the material and the idealistic beginnings that unite in the natural realm.


*2. Subjective idealists (INxx)*

- The Analyst (LII): the world is governed by a thought («Cogito ergo sum» - Descartes). If people come to understand the systematized laws that govern the society, then society can be structured with fairness. The most constructive of all sociotypes, supposing that any phenomenon can be defined by universal prime elements (archetypes, Forms, a priori categories) and the connections between them.

- The Critic (ILI): the world is governed by chance. Objective measures do not exist. Everything is relative and determined by probability. This type is most predisposed towards agnosticism of the intellect ("I only know that I know nothing" - Socrates). Knowledge is possible only when one attains complete inner clality and tranquility that can be achieved via meditation.

- The Lyrisist (IEI): the world is governed by state, mood. This type possesses the most malleable type of psyche. It is strongly influenced by its own internal disposition. Because of this it is very easy to persuade this type in any issue if one is persistent enough. However, it will just as easily discard beliefs that were imposed on it.

- The Reconciler (EII): the world is ruled by kindness. The type that is most predisposed to compassion, even if its words and feelings are not realized as actions. This type has idealistic notions about kindness and fairness and that if everybody abides by these notions in everyday life this will lead towards a more humanitarian society. However, these have to come from the depths of individual's soul rather than be imposed from the outside.


*3. Objective materialists (ESxx)*

- The Marshall (SLE): the world is ruled by power and strength. Most resolute of all sociotypes. Will enter an engagement only when he is sure that he has advantage in force or has found a weakness in the enemy forces. Objective reality, given to this type via his senses – this is what he trusts. Everything else is an illusion.

- The Politician (SEE): world is governed by connections, fame and prestige. Most cautious one of all sociotypes, as it learns everything through mistakes that have been made. It moves forward exploring its way by touch and trusting only its senses. Words, concepts, ideas – all of these are only instruments for exerting influence on people.

- The Enthusiast (ESE): the world is ruled by impulse, fervor, attraction. The most emotive of all types capable of influencing the moods of others. This type can be considered to be part of idealist group, as it is able to do only that which it finds likable. However, its dependence on the emotional state of others is quite material.

- The Administrator (LSE): the world is governed by labor, by work. This type has the most materialistically directed type of psyche. It will base its argument only on existing knowledge and laws. Completely dependent on the process of work, subjugating its own plans to it. Will reject any theories or schemes if they are not presented in a form of already established methods.


*4. Subjective materialists (ISxx)*

- The Inspector (LSI): the world is governed by order and discipline. This type is most dependent on organization of its concrete environment, completely subjugating itself to its adopted system. Every major alternative is rejected since deviation from accepted and polished system is equivalent to losing foothold and descending into uncontrollable chaos.

- The Guardian (ESI): the world is governed morality and moral duty. This type of mentality more than any other depends on its internal moral attitudes. The individual is in the right to treat others as they deserve. The existing system of relations and moral values is protected from any impositions from outside. Even objectively provoked passion can be brought under control at will.

- The Mediator (SEI): the world is ruled by pleasure. This sociotype will only do work that is pleasant and not tiresome. Quite conforming in behavior, this type easily adapts to the others believing that people will positively reciprocate if only an atmosphere of comfort is created and something is offered that will improve the pleasantness of their lives.

- The Craftsman (SLI): the world is ruled by usefulness. In accordance with its philosophy this type will not do anything that it perceives as useless for itself and will never offer this to others. The principle of minimal action by which the physical world lives is its principle as well. As the most technologically-minded type, this type believes that the best argument is the one that appeals to the common sense of man.


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## Mutant Hive Queen (Oct 29, 2013)

> - The Critic (ILI): the world is governed by chance. Objective measures do not exist. Everything is relative and determined by probability. This type is most predisposed towards agnosticism of the intellect ("I only know that I know nothing" - Socrates). Knowledge is possible only when one attains complete inner clality and tranquility that can be achieved via meditation.





> - The Mediator (SEI): the world is ruled by pleasure. This sociotype will only do work that is pleasant and not tiresome. Quite conforming in behavior, this type easily adapts to the others believing that people will positively reciprocate if only an atmosphere of comfort is created and something is offered that will improve the pleasantness of their lives.





These two pretty much sum up my thought process, with SEI fitting slightly more than ILI. 

I had/have a little inner EIE though.


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## Pressed Flowers (Oct 8, 2014)

> - The Mentor (EIE): god, fate, destiny rule the world. This type is one of the most oriented at mysticism and religion, honestly believing in its own messiahood, seeing itself as a missionary for forces cosmic or divine.


lol yes, I relate to this a bit. I'm iffy about destiny, but I have a strong faith in God... For that reason I'm not really into mysticism, but I do find it interesting and take some mystic things people tell me to heart.


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## Recede (Nov 23, 2011)

> - The Psychologist (IEE): world is governed by a feeling that is more powerful than the individual; this is one of the most altruistic types that is capable of helping people not asking for anything in return. This type has a strong predisposition for empathy.





> - The Critic (ILI): the world is governed by chance. Objective measures do not exist. Everything is relative and determined by probability. This type is most predisposed towards agnosticism of the intellect ("I only know that I know nothing" - Socrates). Knowledge is possible only when one attains complete inner clality and tranquility that can be achieved via meditation.





> - The Lyrisist (IEI): the world is governed by state, mood. This type possesses the most malleable type of psyche. It is strongly influenced by its own internal disposition. Because of this it is very easy to persuade this type in any issue if one is persistent enough. However, it will just as easily discard beliefs that were imposed on it.





> - The Reconciler (EII): the world is ruled by kindness. The type that is most predisposed to compassion, even if its words and feelings are not realized as actions. This type has idealistic notions about kindness and fairness and that if everybody abides by these notions in everyday life this will lead towards a more humanitarian society. However, these have to come from the depths of individual's soul rather than be imposed from the outside.


I relate to these four.


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## Notus Asphodelus (Jan 20, 2015)

- The Craftsman (SLI): the world is ruled by usefulness. In accordance with its philosophy this type will not do anything that it perceives as useless for itself and will never offer this to others. The principle of minimal action by which the physical world lives is its principle as well. As the most technologically-minded type, this type believes that the best argument is the one that appeals to the common sense of man.
- The Critic (ILI): the world is governed by chance. Objective measures do not exist. Everything is relative and determined by probability. This type is most predisposed towards agnosticism of the intellect ("I only know that I know nothing" - Socrates). Knowledge is possible only when one attains complete inner clality and tranquility that can be achieved via meditation.


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## Dao (Sep 13, 2013)

Very interesting. I've been heavily influenced by Taoist and Buddhist philosophies, and so many of these don't seem mutually exclusive to me, but are part of a larger whole.


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## LibertyPrime (Dec 17, 2010)

> - The Psychologist (IEE): world is governed by a feeling that is more powerful than the individual; this is one of the most altruistic types that is capable of helping people not asking for anything in return. This type has a strong predisposition for empathy.


I'm IEE & relate most to this, however i'll also note that that I'm a disillusioned, cynical angry dude.


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## To_august (Oct 13, 2013)

I have conflicting thoughts on my inner philosophy. Like, I believe that the world is governed by universal laws, but everyday observe casual and irrational mess happening.
Anyway, ILE and ESI resonate with me the most with LII as close second.


> - The Inventor (ILE): the universe is ruled by a universal intelligence. This sociotype more than others believes in ability of human mind to comprehend the most complex phenomena, in intelligent design of the objective world, in that it can be explained from the point of view of precise laws of logic. ("God does not play dice" - Einstein)





> - The Guardian (ESI): the world is governed morality and moral duty. This type of mentality more than any other depends on its internal moral attitudes. The individual is in the right to treat others as they deserve. The existing system of relations and moral values is protected from any impositions from outside. Even objectively provoked passion can be brought under control at will.





> - The Analyst (LII): the world is governed by a thought («Cogito ergo sum» - Descartes). If people come to understand the systematized laws that govern the society, then society can be structured with fairness. The most constructive of all sociotypes, supposing that any phenomenon can be defined by universal prime elements (archetypes, Forms, a priori categories) and the connections between them.


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## telarana (Apr 13, 2014)

> - The Inventor (ILE): the universe is ruled by a universal intelligence. This sociotype more than others believes in ability of human mind to comprehend the most complex phenomena, in intelligent design of the objective world, in that it can be explained from the point of view of precise laws of logic. ("God does not play dice" - Einstein)





> - The Entrepreneur (LIE): the creator of everything is living nature. This sociotype animates nature, itself becoming a dualist i.e. recognizing in equal measures the material and the idealistic beginnings that unite in the natural realm.





> - The Lyrisist (IEI): the world is governed by state, mood. This type possesses the most malleable type of psyche. It is strongly influenced by its own internal disposition. Because of this it is very easy to persuade this type in any issue if one is persistent enough. However, it will just as easily discard beliefs that were imposed on it.





> - The Enthusiast (ESE): the world is ruled by impulse, fervor, attraction. The most emotive of all types capable of influencing the moods of others. This type can be considered to be part of idealist group, as it is able to do only that which it finds likable. However, its dependence on the emotional state of others is quite material.


I relate to these four the most. Pretty accurate of my current worldview.


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## d e c a d e n t (Apr 21, 2013)

Oh, these are interesting. I would say I relate most to the SEI one though. Hmm. I suppose the EII one works somewhat too, though.

(Also, the SEE one seems biased towards the Social instinct to me.)


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## westlose (Oct 9, 2014)

> - The Lyrisist (IEI): the world is governed by state, mood. This type possesses the most malleable type of psyche. It is strongly influenced by its own internal disposition. Because of this it is very easy to persuade this type in any issue if one is persistent enough. However, it will just as easily discard beliefs that were imposed on it.


My first impression was, nah it's not true at all.

But now that I've thought about it, it's incredibly accurate lol.


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## Gentleman (Jun 14, 2014)

> - The Marshall (SLE): the world is ruled by power and strength. Most resolute of all sociotypes. Will enter an engagement only when he is sure that he has advantage in force or has found a weakness in the enemy forces. Objective reality, given to this type via his senses – this is what he trusts. Everything else is an illusion.





> - The Politician (SEE): world is governed by connections, fame and prestige. Most cautious one of all sociotypes, as it learns everything through mistakes that have been made. It moves forward exploring its way by touch and trusting only its senses. Words, concepts, ideas – all of these are only instruments for exerting influence on people.





> - The Craftsman (SLI): the world is ruled by usefulness. In accordance with its philosophy this type will not do anything that it perceives as useless for itself and will never offer this to others. The principle of minimal action by which the physical world lives is its principle as well. As the most technologically-minded type, this type believes that the best argument is the one that appeals to the common sense of man.


I relate to these.


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## Grandmaster Yoda (Jan 18, 2014)

> - The Analyst (LII): the world is governed by a thought («Cogito ergo sum» - Descartes). If people come to understand the systematized laws that govern the society, then society can be structured with fairness. The most constructive of all sociotypes, supposing that any phenomenon can be defined by universal prime elements (archetypes, Forms, a priori categories) and the connections between them.


I think therefore I am. I am therefore I think. I don't know that I am before I think.


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## Psithurism (Jun 19, 2013)

_The Critic (ILI): the world is governed by chance. Objective measures do not exist. Everything is relative and determined by probability. This type is most predisposed towards agnosticism of the intellect ("I only know that I know nothing" - Socrates). Knowledge is possible only when one attains complete inner clarity and tranquility that can be achieved via meditation._

Makes sense (but I don't like that Socrates quote). I feel I exist in a state of perpetual suspension of the intellect. My thoughts can float over an object but it is as if they never wrap it completely.

This also leads me to have a probabilistic leaning in the way I predict things or make decisions. I may act with a semblance of certainty at times, but in reality it is because if the action chosen reflects what I think has the highest probability of reaching my destination (with the choices at my disposal that is), then I will see no reason to change course.

Also, if I get a strong foreboding sense of what is to come, I have a soothing ''this is what is to be expected, but if things don't turn out as it should, then so be it'' sentiment that permeates. Admittedly, this is probably amplified by being a core 9 in enneagram.


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## Deus Absconditus (Feb 27, 2011)

> - The Mentor (EIE): god, fate, destiny rule the world. This type is one of the most oriented at mysticism and religion, honestly believing in its own messiahood, seeing itself as a missionary for forces cosmic or divine.
> 
> - The Inventor (ILE): the universe is ruled by a universal intelligence. This sociotype more than others believes in ability of human mind to comprehend the most complex phenomena, in intelligent design of the objective world, in that it can be explained from the point of view of precise laws of logic. ("God does not play dice" - Einstein)
> 
> ...


I relate to all of these equally...


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## Grandmaster Yoda (Jan 18, 2014)

Deus Absconditus said:


> I relate to all of these equally...


You cannot. They all different. You must read again.


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## Deus Absconditus (Feb 27, 2011)

Grandmaster Yoda said:


> You cannot. They are all different. You must read again.


Nope, none of them are mutually exclusive.


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## Grandmaster Yoda (Jan 18, 2014)

Deus Absconditus said:


> Nope, none of them are mutually exclusive.


Analysis:


> the universe is ruled by a universal intelligence





> god, fate, destiny rule the world





> the creator of everything is living nature





> the world is governed by a thought


As you can see, sir. One believes that an intelligence rules the universe, one believes that a god, fate and destiny co-rule the universe, one believes that living nature creates everything and one believes that thinking rules the universe.
You must develop your attention to detail. These are vastly different.


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## telarana (Apr 13, 2014)

They're only different if you're thinking of them as exclusive. There are many belief systems which have overlapping ideas of these very philosophical constructs. A universal intelligence could be thought of as god/spiritual force/fate/destiny which could also be found in everything in nature. I'm not entirely certain what the 'governed by a thought' thing means so I can't quite comment on how that would fit within the realm of the other three. Perhaps that would fit in more with the idea of fate or destiny.


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## Deus Absconditus (Feb 27, 2011)

Grandmaster Yoda said:


> Analysis:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nah, they all believe that a higher power inherent within existence rules existence. 

God=Universal intelligence=Creator of everything being living nature=World governed by thought=Fate=Destiny

One can believe in a higher intelligence, making living nature (Universal intelligence makes nature living) be the creator of everything, leading the world to be governed by thought, and if the world is governed by thought along with universal intelligence then there is an inherent framework for the events within existence which equals to the destiny of events, and if destiny of events are a fact then fate itself is also a fact. One could also see themselves as the messenger of the universe, or the embodiment of it, and proceed to teach others which would make them a messiah. :tongue:


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## Grandmaster Yoda (Jan 18, 2014)

Deus Absconditus said:


> Nah, they all believe that a higher power inherent within existence rules existence.
> 
> God=Universal intelligence=Creator of everything being living nature=World governed by thought=Fate=Destiny
> 
> One can believe in a higher intelligence, making living nature (Universal intelligence makes nature living) be the creator of everything, leading the world to be governed by thought, and if the world is governed by thought along with universal intelligence then there is an inherent framework for the events within existence which equals to the destiny of events, and if destiny of events are a fact then fate itself is also a fact. One could also see themselves as the messenger of the universe, or the embodiment of it, and proceed to teach others which would make them a messiah. :tongue:


What if you are an atheist and anti-philosopher?


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## Deus Absconditus (Feb 27, 2011)

Grandmaster Yoda said:


> What if you are an atheist and anti-philosopher?


Then what I said obviously wouldn't apply to them, but if you are some type of theist and philosopher then there is a higher probability that what I said could apply to you, depending on what type of theist you are and what type of philosophy you follow.


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## Typhon (Nov 13, 2012)

telarana said:


> They're only different if you're thinking of them as exclusive. There are many belief systems which have overlapping ideas of these very philosophical constructs. A universal intelligence could be thought of as god/spiritual force/fate/destiny which could also be found in everything in nature. I'm not entirely certain what the 'governed by a thought' thing means so I can't quite comment on how that would fit within the realm of the other three. Perhaps that would fit in more with the idea of fate or destiny.


I think that different and exclusive are two well...different things. These thoughts are not the same thing, but you're right it doesnt make them exclusive.

Governed by a thought reminds me of Plato's First Forms; the material universe is but a reflection of the true realm of ideas. It also reminds me of Gnostic thought where the material universe was created when Sophia(Wisdom) decided to create a Being without the approval of her consort, the Invisible Spirit.



Grandmaster Yoda said:


> What if you are an atheist and anti-philosopher?


Obviously Gulenko isnt saying that a person of said type is going to agree with the philosophy of that type at the expense of the others. Its not a test for identifying one's type, as he says any type can adopt any philosophy. I understand these more as general philosophical attitudes each type takes on.


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## Ixim (Jun 19, 2013)

The world is governed, quite obviously at that, by money, by corruption and by stupidity. All 3 form a triangle, a triangle named NEOLIBERALISM. A system that should be destroyed and forgotten ASAP. What do you think I mostly relate to?

...you tell me. 100$ on ESI...


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## The_Wanderer (Jun 13, 2013)

FreeBeer said:


> I'm IEE & relate most to this, however i'll also note that that I'm a disillusioned, cynical angry dude.


Do empathy and cynicism cancel each other out? I wonder. Definitely agree with you here though, to an extent; constantly disillusioned by happenings and the seemingly common dice roll that ends up some boring low number, yet again always seems just around the corner there's always the possibility that every now and then something good, new or at the very least _strangely awesome_ seems to jump out at me and give me that tickle that two tonnes of caffeine and sugar couldn't possibly bring. 

Except for politics, always best to bet on the dark side there, they're all insidious and evil, or dead, but usually both, :wink:.



Ixim said:


> The world is governed, quite obviously at that, by money, by corruption and by stupidity. All 3 form a triangle, a triangle named NEOLIBERALISM.


Oh please. Money, corruption _and_ stupidity are far more historically significant and ancient than neoliberalism. As it's name suggests, neoliberalism is simply the latest repetition that holds those three most human traits as necessary tenants.


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## Ixim (Jun 19, 2013)

The_Wanderer said:


> Do empathy and cynicism cancel each other out? I wonder. Definitely agree with you here though, to an extent; constantly disillusioned by happenings and the seemingly common dice roll that ends up some boring low number, yet again always seems just around the corner there's always the possibility that every now and then something good, new or at the very least _strangely awesome_ seems to jump out at me and give me that tickle that two tonnes of caffeine and sugar couldn't possibly bring.
> 
> Except for politics, always best to bet on the dark side there, they're all insidious and evil, or dead, but usually both, :wink:.
> 
> ...


I just like firing broadsides at it. Hey, at least _it_ has a name _now_. Hence it is easier to *Fi*re yourself up :tongue: . Anyhow, I resonate mostly to Is-ESI specifically.


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## The Exception (Oct 26, 2010)

LII, ILI, and ILE all compete for my attention.


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## Zamyatin (Jun 10, 2014)

Word Dispenser said:


> - The Critic (ILI): the world is governed by chance. Objective measures do not exist. Everything is relative and determined by probability. This type is most predisposed towards agnosticism of the intellect ("I only know that I know nothing" - Socrates). Knowledge is possible only when one attains complete inner clality and tranquility that can be achieved via meditation.


This is clearly an LII's misinterpretation/half-formed conception of how ILIs think.

The world is not really perceived as being "governed by chance". It's more like the world is a sweeping, seething mass of patterns you can only grasp briefly. For a moment, you may feel you understand something in its totality, but then the currents shift, and you're against adrift in the eddies of time and space. Nothing is truly bounded and nothing has complete limits. Instead, everything is part of a greater sweeping whole, and you're perpetually driven to try to grasp that whole by comparing different patches of its surface to each other. There is only one universe after all.

While objective measures do not really exist, that's because each measure is a discrete construct attempting to saw off a piece of the whole, and in the end all that accomplishes is to give you an imperfect and inherently flawed understanding of a part of the universe. This is not some radical idea. Just look at medical research and the constant quest to devise a good definition of something as fundamental and simple as "good health". Every measure researchers use is inherently flawed because it attempts to take an organic whole and to attempt to dice it up into a neat little package you can call "data" and do math on. The only way one can really accurately understand the totality is by learning to recognize the patterns of reality, and by doing so gaining a truer understanding of how those patterns interact with each other. But in the end, the world is anything but random chance. Instead, it follows the predictable and observable patterns of existence.


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## Recede (Nov 23, 2011)

Having given it more thought, I think this is the one that most fits me, of the ones I mentioned before:



> - The Lyrisist (IEI): the world is governed by state, mood. This type possesses the most malleable type of psyche. It is strongly influenced by its own internal disposition. Because of this it is very easy to persuade this type in any issue if one is persistent enough. However, it will just as easily discard beliefs that were imposed on it.


Fits great, except I'm not Ni.


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## The_Wanderer (Jun 13, 2013)

Silveresque said:


> Fits great, except I'm not Ni.


You sure? I'm rather Ni at times.


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## Recede (Nov 23, 2011)

The_Wanderer said:


> You sure? I'm rather Ni at times.


Lenore Thomson and Augusta's descriptions sort of fit, but not Jung's. I don't get images from the unconscious, or if I do they're after the fact, like an illustration of my thoughts rather than providing new insight. Like I might see something as being like a whack-a-mole game where you get one down and another pops up, you can't get rid of the problem. 

The biggest thing though is that I don't do predictions and I never get "this will happen" feelings, and hardly ever get hunches in general. If I do they're very subtle and I hardly recognize them as hunches, they're just my thoughts. And I don't have any use for predicting the future, I mean in my life that would be like "I predict I will go to class tomorrow." There's really nothing new or interesting ever going on to predict. I do, however, constantly plan, to the point where it's almost always on my mind. But I think that's not necessarily Ni.


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## Psithurism (Jun 19, 2013)

Zamyatin said:


> But in the end, the world is anything but random chance. Instead, it follows the predictable and observable patterns of existence.


I was hoping he wasn't saying that our understanding of the patterns of reality is random. That would paint all ILIs as fools.

The way I made minimal sense of the mention of ''random'' is that those recurring and logical patterns come from the original card shuffle of existence. But, as you similarly put it, everything understandably follows and unfolds from thereon; in the strict sense of the term, nothing is really random anymore.

Grasping the relation of something to the whole is indeed key for understanding. As a simple and banal example that can then be transposed to more metaphysical levels (or that which is most general), if someone comes to you on the street painted in complete blue, most people would react by assessing the situation as being ''random'' as hell. With that said, as soon as one tries to fit that event with a broader explanation or context, then it no longer seems as random anymore (for example, he might say afterwards that it was a bet or a practical joke).

Also, I'm not disagreeing with your point in case it wasn't obvious. That description is lackluster and even misleading if taken literally, but I can understand what he was trying to say in sentiment. The Socrates quote also appears quite tongue-in-cheek in itself and it is awkward to have placed it there.


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## Zamyatin (Jun 10, 2014)

Wistfulness said:


> I was hoping he wasn't saying that our understanding of the patterns of reality is random. That would paint all ILIs as fools.
> 
> The way I made minimal sense of the mention of ''random'' is that those recurring and logical patterns come from the original card shuffle of existence. But, as you similarly put it, everything understandably follows and unfolds from thereon; in the strict sense of the term, nothing is really random anymore.
> 
> ...


I interpreted it as someone with a static perspective of the world trying to imagine dynamism. I imagine he's heard ILIs say something similar to what I wrote, and the closest thing he could do to approximating that mindset in himself was to think we see things the way a statistician does, as if everything is "within a 95% confidence interval" and perception is simply deciding on what is more or less plausible. If you have a static view of the world, it's easy to see how you could interpret what I wrote earlier as meaning the world is "random". 

Thing is, we perceive by seeing patterns in things, not by simply taking a statistician's best guess. Believing that measures miss the true picture doesn't mean we think the only alternative is an intellectual agnosticism based on probability. It just means we're more inclined to try to see the whole picture by downplaying the individual parts, which we feel tend to be misleading.


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## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

Word Dispenser said:


> *6. Philosophy of Types*
> 
> 
> * *
> ...



* *










Word Dispenser said:


> *1. Objective idealists (ENxx)*
> 
> - The Mentor (EIE): god, fate, destiny rule the world. This type is one of the most oriented at mysticism and religion, honestly believing in its own messiahood, seeing itself as a missionary for forces cosmic or divine.


　


Word Dispenser said:


> *2. Subjective idealists (INxx)*
> 
> - The Analyst (LII): the world is governed by a thought («Cogito ergo sum» - Descartes). If people come to understand the systematized laws that govern the society, then society can be structured with fairness. The most constructive of all sociotypes, supposing that any phenomenon can be defined by universal prime elements (archetypes, Forms, a priori categories) and the connections between them.
> 
> - The Lyricist (IEI): the world is governed by state, mood. This type possesses the most malleable type of psyche. It is strongly influenced by its own internal disposition. Because of this it is very easy to persuade this type in any issue if one is persistent enough. However, it will just as easily discard beliefs that were imposed on it.


　


Word Dispenser said:


> *3. Objective materialists (ESxx)*
> 
> - The Enthusiast (ESE): the world is ruled by impulse, fervor, attraction. The most emotive of all types capable of influencing the moods of others. This type can be considered to be part of idealist group, as it is able to do only that which it finds likable. However, its dependence on the emotional state of others is quite material.


　

Basically, Lyricist because if it weren't for all these complicated philosophies I've had to draw from, I'd likely just remember lyrics and go with the flow. I'm a musician, so yea. Duh.

Then Mentor because of my strong Gnostic lean throughout life, even as a Christian I was more interested in esoteric relationship with YHWH. I believe my Ne-subtype is responsible for this partially.

Then Analyst (strong use of Mobilizing Ti... almost self-masturbatorily so).

Then Enthusiast because I've done some Se-/Si-work and am all about "GETTING MY LIFE" these days and trying to "embrace my basic side" because basic is strangely beautiful and connected in ways that I'm not accustomed to. While my Si and Se are weak, I believe I can still recognize their value, especially Si because it's conscious.


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## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

Verglas said:


> The way I made minimal sense of the mention of ''random'' is that those recurring and logical patterns come from the original card shuffle of existence. But, as you similarly put it, everything understandably follows and unfolds from thereon; in the strict sense of the term, nothing is really random anymore.


Yeah, the whole point of Ni-_Leading_ is that you _start with it._ The fact that both MBTI and Socionics say INJ's/IxIs follow with a rational function means we take a premise that is essentially randomness-converging-on-a-salient-principle (Ni) and extrapolate from that using rational faculties. Ni actually condenses the randomness into something discreet, and then we take the discreet and string it back out again, but this time it's not strung out into the randomness it once was.

We're like the WinRAR's or 7Zip's of the universe!


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## 0+n*1 (Sep 20, 2013)

I relate the most to IEI and ILI and weirdly ESE, but I haven't analyzed them one by one or have given them a lot of thought. Everything is conviction is what I usually say. There's no truth, no absolute. Everything is relative. We're irremediably subjective. Inescapable. We will never see everything even if sometimes we think we do, we feel we do.


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## Mr inappropriate (Dec 17, 2013)

SLI or ILE ! I dont relate to others at all.


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