# Real woman have curves, damnmit.



## StarFollowed (May 5, 2014)

Nothing annoys me more than this statement. For a long time, I thought having curves meant this:









But now, it's this:










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Why does everyone have to become this: 









to be considered as fat?

I believe that people don't know what is healthy anymore. The fashion industry picks naturally small framed, thin, tall woman and tell them to lose weight so they become unnaturally stick thin. These images are now projected and now people who are naturally thin or a normal weight are labeled as anorexic. And most woman of average height now believe that a size 0-4 is too thin, when in reality, if you're 5'4 or under, it looks very healthy and natural. Most people state nonsensical things like, "I'd rather be this size than look like a twig." or "What is a size 2, anyway?! Those woman need to eat!!" People know little about portion control and the nutrients required for energy and maintaining weight. The reason pregnant woman gain so much weight is that they eat for two, which is more than enough calories, and continue to eat that way after the baby is born. 

Another thing: men have been duped into thinking size 12 (thought of as the most attractive size for woman in studies conducted.) is most attractive. While this might be true for some men (mostly middle-aged men), the size most think is attractive is actually quite slim, but labeled as being a size 12. While I don't think men will ever quite grasp woman's clothing sizes, these studies need to be stopped, because IRL, a size 12 is actually a bit heavy. 

(I'll post more pictures to prove my point after this rant.)

Body fat percentage is the most accurate measurement of one's health. Most men tend fantasize about woman in the 17-30% range. (Usually, 30% BF doesn't look good on most woman unless you have lots of muscle mass.) Bikini and fitness models tend to be in the 15%-24% range (15%-19% for bikini models, which is a bit challenging for most woman unless petite. and 20%-24% for fitness models.) while porn stars extend to about 25/26%. 

Everyone looks slightly different at these percentages, though.

Men prefer curvy woman, and what "curvy" means to men is different from what it means to woman. Curvy means having an hourglass figure, or a good a--, or b--bs. Not plus sized woman, if given the option.

I'm just so sick of girls at my college who whine about how so-and-so is shallow for not being interested and mistake snark and being loud or excessive in personality and thinking too highly of themselves as "confidence". Posing pictures in your crop top all over the internet, smirking at the camera, acting like you're having so much fun isn't true confidence. 

I know that looks eventually fade, and there's more to a person than just looks, but what you look like is important too! You can't control your genetics, your facial features, your bone structure, but everyone can be healthy and thin. The average American woman is a size 14, with 40% body fat. Anything over 32% body fat for a woman is obese!

Everyone can pick a healthy medium. 

Aaand, the reason why men don't find runway models attractive is because they are typically lower than 15%. Below this will disrupt the menstrual cycle and the woman will most likely have nutrient deficiencies. So when men say they don't want a skinny girl, they don't want skinny, anorexic looking woman. Whereas a girl's idea of "too skinny" is anybody who is bikini/fitness model, which is what a lot of men find attractive. Men want curves. Not fat rolls, but curves. Real, healthy woman have curves.

I'm just sick of woman who keep encouraging other woman to eat!!


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## StarFollowed (May 5, 2014)

Body fat percentages^









That woman is not a 4-8. She's a 00-0. The woman in the middle is a 2-6. The woman on the right is a 12-14.

I'm so tired of the "love your body" mindset. It only creates more insecurity and passive-agressiveness, and petty attitudes. 

Why do we need to have songs like this:


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## StarFollowed (May 5, 2014)

Bikini models are in the 17-19% range. This is probably the most healthy if a woman is willing to work for it a bit.


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## LostFavor (Aug 18, 2011)

Tangled In Flowers said:


> I know that looks eventually fade, and there's more to a person than just looks, but what you look like is important too! You can't control your genetics, your facial features, your bone structure, but everyone can be healthy and thin. The average American woman is a size 14, with 40% body fat. Anything over 32% body fat for a woman is obese!


You use of the word "thin" here might get taken the wrong way. I'm pretty sure that genetically speaking, some people are never going to be "thin."

We can certainly all be healthy though. I'm with you there 100%.

At the end of the day "real women have curves" is just another buzzword (buzzphrase?). It probably stemmed from backlash against the paper-thin-model standard set by media, but ultimately it's just another kind of pressure. 

Real people live longer and healthier lives by taking care of their bodies.

That's what we should be saying.


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## StarFollowed (May 5, 2014)

LostFavor said:


> You use of the word "thin" here might get taken the wrong way. I'm pretty sure that genetically speaking, some people are never going to be "thin."
> 
> We can certainly all be healthy though. I'm with you there 100%.
> 
> ...


By "thin", I mean anywhere between 15-27% BF. Not everyone can get below 20% BF. That doesn't mean they aren't thin and healthy. 30% and over is typically when a person is overweight.


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## Grandmaster Yoda (Jan 18, 2014)

I prefer the more eloquent phrase "if a model looks like it is about to die then the standards being portrayed are most likely ridiculous."


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## LostFavor (Aug 18, 2011)

Tangled In Flowers said:


> By "thin", I mean anywhere between 15-27% BF. Not everyone can get below 20% BF. That doesn't mean they aren't thin and healthy. 30% and over is typically when a person is overweight.


Yeah, I figured you meant it in a more technical way. Some people might not catch that is all.


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## Sara Torailles (Dec 14, 2010)

Real women have a variety of shapes and sizes, and only stop becoming real women when they have a masculine or non-binary gender identity or are part of a fictionalized universe.

Plus, men and women are into a variety of things.

P.S. The first woman obviously has a corset on.


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## StarFollowed (May 5, 2014)

Torai said:


> Real women have a variety of shapes and sizes, and only stop becoming real women when they have a masculine or non-binary gender identity or are part of a fictionalized universe.
> 
> Plus, men are into a variety of things.
> 
> P.S. The first woman obviously has a corset.


I agree with your statement, and I did pick an exaggerated hourglass figure on purpose. Woman can't achieve that naturally.


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## Max (Aug 14, 2014)

I'm sick of all this 'real women' shit. To me, a 'real woman' is one who fucking breathes and has a vagina and boobs and a name. I don't care what she looks like. I don't care if she has a droopy ass or whatever. You are you, and that is that. You aren't a porn star, a bikini model or an actress. Goddamnit. Just be you. 

Sorry, I needed to get that outta my system.


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## xisnotx (Mar 20, 2014)

women care more about how women look than men do. 

case in point, most (single) men will sleep with a good 50% of women if he has the chance to. how women look isn't as important as you all like to think it is. 

besides, most women are hot in their own way. very few genuinely unattractive females out there.

and even they can get some guy...


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## koalaroo (Nov 25, 2011)

Optimal fertility is between 18%-25% body fat.


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## StarFollowed (May 5, 2014)

xisnotx said:


> women care more about how women look then men do.


I think the reason for that is because they very insecure of their bodies and don't know what to when they don't like what they see. That said, I do think woman care more about the little things they see. (flab, big booty, etc) whereas men tend to look at the big picture and don't know/care about the little details. That's what I think anyway.




> besides, most women are hot in their own way. very few genuinely unattractive females out there.
> 
> and even they can get some guy...


I agree that there are few unattractive females, but some decisions they make will cause them to be not *as* attractive as they could be. Like the way they carry themselves, bad personality, not taking care of themselves physically, etc.


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## StarFollowed (May 5, 2014)

koalaroo said:


> Optimal fertility is between 18%-25% body fat.


Yes. I'd personally think 17% should be the lowest, since some (a very small percentage) can be just as fertile as woman in 18%-25% range.


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## LadyO.W.BernieBro (Sep 4, 2010)

Tangled In Flowers said:


> View attachment 215666
> 
> 
> Body fat percentages^
> ...


Just a minor quip-the reason these 00s and 2's look ''average'' is parially due to vanity sizing, an entirely different issue.

l've been sized out of Old Navy and The Gap with their smallest sizes now too big for me and a lot of people. 
Am l legitimately too thin for size 0? Rarely, but it happens. l'm about the same size l was in 1999 when nearly all size 0s were WAY too small and I easily fit into a size 5 (which is now easily a size 1-3).

Thinner girls aren't looking more like a healthy norm because a typical size 4 looks this way, it's because it would have been a size 6/8 10 years ago (which explains why a 12 now looks like a 16).

I'd agree with some of your OP. ''Marilyn Monroe was a size 16'' is something that passes as in inspirational quote meant to inspire self-esteem when in the 1960s a size 16 was likely on the average side.


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## StarFollowed (May 5, 2014)

Lady O.W. Bro said:


> Just a minor quip-the reason these 00s and 2's look ''average'' is parially due to vanity sizing, an entirely different issue.
> 
> l've been sized out of Old Navy and The Gap with their smallest sizes now too big for me and a lot of people.
> Am l legitimately too thin for size 0? Rarely, but it happens. l'm about the same size l was in 1999 when nearly all size 0s were WAY too small and I easily fit into a size 5 (which is now easily a size 1-3).
> ...



Very True. But I also think some present day size 16 girls would look at the size 16 (12-14) woman and realize they don't look anything like that. 

I think it's the same thing with Marilyn Monroe. People say, "She was a size 14!" to make themselves feel better. Her measurements were approx. 35-23-35. Which would be equivalent of a size 4 today, depending on the brand.


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## Pyogenes (Feb 12, 2014)

I find thin women aesthetically pleasing. I know, I know. That must mean that I am brainwashed by the fashion industry, support eating disorders, and generally hate all women.

I also find women with green eyes aesthetically pleasing, but no one ever thinks I am articulating a sociological position by that preference. 

Maybe they think it is exclusionary? If I prefer green eyes, I'll never find brown eyes attractive? That if I prefer thin women, I'll never find women of other body types attractive? I don't get it.


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## xisnotx (Mar 20, 2014)

Tangled In Flowers said:


> I agree that there are few unattractive females, but some decisions they make will cause them to be not *as* attractive as they could be. Like the way they carry themselves, bad personality, not taking care of themselves physically, etc.


same with guys, really. if a man works out, lives healthily (hygienically), is confident, and dresses well then women will find him attractive. being attractive is largely within your own control for many people. i've seen guys that were once, umm, not overly attractive but once they got a clue and started acting right they'd pull loads of women. it's more a choice than people want to think..

fwiw, i don't really like the stick figure women that is the stereotypical hot of the modeling world. models aren't hot to me, i don't know why. i feel like they may be sick or something. i like thick women...not fat..but with meat. i don't want a rag doll...

buxom is my preference. overly thin girls don't look too good naked ime...not as good as a thick woman..

but of course you can't be fat. still, i don't know if it's just the women in my own life...but the stick thin women aren't too good at sex. they feel too hard. bony...like i might get cut. or she'd poke an eye out if she throws an elbow or me. thicker women tend to umm...be better at things. you tell me why...

maybe its just me..i'm not complaining. i like what i like lol

(eh hem...just be thin enough to ride...if you know what i'm saying...and thick enough to grab. that's the best size..whatever size that is. i don't know about all these sizes in women, 12 or 8..that doesn't mean much to me. i don't even know my own sizes lol)


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

Honestly as a medium sized woman I see what you say and the other side. Because honestly I have gotten it from both ends.

My mom and little sister all my life were very naturally thin. I never was ever large. In fact when I was a size 5 I was called meaty by them and that is ridiculous I ever had a complex when younger because some size 0 person calls a fricken size 5 "meaty". WTH?

That said I totally agree. Theres been a reverse in society where its become acceptable to skinny girl shame. I actually posted this song a few weeks ago talking about the same thing here. Its absurd. And I have definitely had my heftier friends talk shit to me and do some weird skinny shaming. 

So honestly there is a relevant problem where people obsessed with vanity (not health) like my mother always was shame people who a perfectly healthy and fit for no damn reason. People do not need complexes about having legit curves. 

Like you say tho where society has gone over board..
The difference between promoting women to feel confident beyond appearance is a good message. The message originally was sending that anyone should feel good about themselves as a human being.

Where it took a turn for the worst is when it started to glorify and glamorize unhealthy. 

Its one thing to not shame the over weight. 

Its an entirely different thing to glamorize it and then reverse shame.

Just another example of political correctness gone wrong.

Take from an idea of not discriminating and then a reverse discrimination glamorization becomes socially acceptable. 

Real women come in all different sizes and shapes. And its best not to be malnutritioned and weight obsessed just as its best not to excessively eat or never properly be active. 

Its all the same its the same as slutt shaming over clothes. I love dressing provocative next to a prude just to twist their panties.


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## StarFollowed (May 5, 2014)

Cinnamon83 said:


>


_Love_ that song! Lol.


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## Tezcatlipoca (Jun 6, 2014)

I look at this from a different perspective, as we have become more materialist we have become more gluttonous and it is because our economy is based in part around exploiting our vices for profit. This makes us overly indulgent and we lose any kind of discipline or standard from within. Reminds me of dostoevsky "The world says: "You have needs -- satisfy them. You have as much right as the rich and the mighty. Don't hesitate to satisfy your needs; indeed, expand your needs and demand more." This is the worldly doctrine of today. And they believe that this is freedom. The result for the rich is isolation and suicide, for the poor, envy and murder."


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## StarFollowed (May 5, 2014)

xisnotx said:


> same with guys, really. if a man works out, lives healthily (hygienically), is confident, and dresses well then women will find him attractive. being attractive is largely within your own control for many people. i've seen guys that were once, umm, not overly attractive but once they got a clue and started acting right they'd pull loads of women. it's more a choice than people want to think..
> 
> fwiw, i don't really like the stick figure women that is the stereotypical hot of the modeling world. models aren't hot to me, i don't know why. i feel like they may be sick or something. i like thick women...not fat..but with meat. i don't want a rag doll...
> 
> ...


Like:


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## StarFollowed (May 5, 2014)

tezcatlipoca said:


> "the world says: "you have needs -- satisfy them. You have as much right as the rich and the mighty. Don't hesitate to satisfy your needs; indeed, expand your needs and demand more." this is the worldly doctrine of today. And they believe that this is freedom. The result for the rich is isolation and suicide, for the poor, envy and murder."


this^


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## StarFollowed (May 5, 2014)

OMG.


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## Eska (Aug 18, 2014)

The fat acceptance movement is trying to objectify beauty and labeling anything outside of their spectrum as offensive and unrealistic, for the sole purpose of hiding their insecurities.

Some of them resort to unfounded and fallacious arguments such as "it's genetics", to hide their guilt of gluttony.


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## Children Of The Bad Revolution (Oct 8, 2013)

It's a dumb thing to say, let's just leave it at that.


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## Dashing (Sep 19, 2011)

anyone who gets involved in any of this 'real' talk is not going to have a good time.


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## Lord Bullingdon (Aug 9, 2014)

I think clothes models are thin because their job is to show off CLOTHES. When you have normally proportioned women, you can see the curves and stuff beneath the clothes, and suddenly you're looking at her body, not the clothes. 

I'm not sure why people think supermodels are the epitome of beauty--they're a vessel for someone else's artistic creations, and hence aren't intended to be looked at. _I_ don't find them attractive anyway, and I don't understand why so many girls hold these people as some sort of standard of beauty. 

I'm not saying that "skinny is ugly" or something demeaning like that. Different things will attract different people. I just don't get the cultural obsession. Along with that, I don't particularly get "you need to put on weight", either.I find that in America particularly, people are often at unhealthy weights and try to act like it should be the new norm. 

I agree, let's find the happy medium of good health and embracing our individual assets as human beings. Why can't individuals be valued for who they are? Who cares about the fashion industry, and why does there always have to be some stupid standard we have to live up to?


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## Mair (Feb 17, 2014)

I personally haven't seen anyone saying that being obese is attractive or healthy. People are simply against fat-shaming because there is no reason to bully others for their weight and make them feel horrible about themselves. Do you think the media that fat-shames people cares about them being healthy? No, they only make people feel like dirt.


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## VinnieBob (Mar 24, 2014)

I'm in the 5% bf range [I know, not the best picture to make my point] due to health reasons but I think the pics in the lower bf % range are off. speaking as a experienced male most adult men will date/sleep/accept women with 50%+ bf range, what the media says about said subject and the reality are two separate things.
ego plays a large role in this, what we ought to look like and how we perceive our selves are large factors and corporation/media try to profit off false ego self perception
Hollywood productions [movies, commercials, etc] have portrayals of models falling in love with other models in a Cinderella fairy tale which almost never happens in reality thus the perceiver [viewer] believes this as true. again speaking from experience in my younger years I have dated very attractive women and a good share of average females only to conclude that the 10+range were very egotistical/vain which dropped their rating down to a 2. I much prefer a female who is honest and true versus one who is aesthetically appealing. perfection is only a ideal and false perception, true perfection is accepting others with out false ideals

disclaimer- this is only my opinion and I could be wrong


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## Flaming Bassoon (Feb 15, 2013)

Because beauty is such a subjective thing, all of this "real women" stuff is bullshit. Some people are naturally small, some are naturally big. What should be focused on instead of weight is being healthy because while you can't be obese and be healthy many people can be healthy at different weights. I, for instance, would be overweight at 140 pounds because I'm 5'2" and petite while for most women this wouldn't be the case.


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## halrick (May 4, 2014)

Someone should look healthy _enough_. That being said, imo, generally speaking, it's more appealing to have a bit more bf than necessary instead of not quite enough. But then again, it's all about the correct relationship between bf & muscles in the context of their own body "type". While some may look healthy and attractive with a bf % of 17, others only start to look healthy at higher bf percentages. In the end, everyone was dealt a deck of cards, and while you have the possiblity to trade some cards for better ones (i.e. by deciding on a particular sport regiment or choosing to cut back on certain foods), you still have to live with most cards on the deck and make the best of the hand you were dealt. While a trade might work for one, the same trade might not work as good with another.


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## ai.tran.75 (Feb 26, 2014)

Skinny - slamming has been more prominent now than it has ever been . Being naturally thin (very thin ) my entire life it's hard not to get dissed on and most of the time I'll have to criticize my image along with it - or else it'll be considered offensive . I think women at any size can look good and women at any shape can have curves . Marilyn Monroe is gorgeous , Scarlett Johansson is also gorgeous , so is Catherine Zeta Jones along with Audrey Hepburn , Winona Ryder and Olivia Wilde . I don't think size should matter . I remember studying a section on eating disorder in a sociology class -and bulimia is more often done by average weight women than skinny/obese - and anorexia is a mental problem - affecting 1-5% of women and most skinny people are naturally skinny guys don't get slam as much as girls for being naturally thin . I'm glad that the media realizes that thick is beauty and so is curvy - but I'm so annoyed with skinny slamming


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## StarFollowed (May 5, 2014)

vinniebob said:


> View attachment 215946
> I'm in the 5% bf range [I know, not the best picture to make my point] due to health reasons but I think the pics in the lower bf % range are off. speaking as a experienced male most adult men will date/sleep/accept women with 50%+ bf range, what the media says about said subject and the reality are two separate things.
> ego plays a large role in this, what we ought to look like and how we perceive our selves are large factors and corporation/media try to profit off false ego self perception
> Hollywood productions [movies, commercials, etc] have portrayals of models falling in love with other models in a Cinderella fairy tale which almost never happens in reality thus the perceiver [viewer] believes this as true. again speaking from experience in my younger years I have dated very attractive women and a good share of average females only to conclude that the 10+range were very egotistical/vain which dropped their rating down to a 2. I much prefer a female who is honest and true versus one who is aesthetically appealing. perfection is only a ideal and false perception, true perfection is accepting others with out false ideals
> ...


I appreciate your answer, vinniebob, and I do agree with the fairy tale analogy. I'm just sick of people at school who complain and demand attention and never desire any improvement whatsoever. My other point was that if you want something - you have to work for it. And people just want everything handed to them when it never really works that way. That's what I think anyway.


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## StarFollowed (May 5, 2014)

ai.tran.75 said:


> I remember studying a section on eating disorder in a sociology class -and bulimia is more often done by average weight women than skinny/obese


I took a nutrition class a while back, and I read the same thing. I think the reason why this happens is because people don't know any measures to become healthier, so instead of trying to understand about portion control, for instance, they choose an easier way to feel bad and punish themselves. I mean I don't know. Maybe. I could be wrong.



> - and anorexia is a mental problem - affecting 1-5% of women and most skinny people are naturally skinny guys don't get slam as much as girls for being naturally thin . I'm glad that the media realizes that thick is beauty and so is curvy - but I'm so annoyed with skinny slamming


This^ and only a couple hundred people die from anorexia a year. (from body dysmorphia) While that is an upsetting amount, it's no where near to the several hundred people who die from obesity-related problems IN A DAY.

My sister is also naturally very slim, and she didn't directly tell me this at the time, but she was made to feel inadequate about her size at school growing-up. One of my petite friends who was 127 pounds (5'3) had chunkier people telling her that she was anorexic and needed to eat. No matter how much I'd tried explain that it wasn't so, when I saw her again after a few months, she'd ballooned up to 140! 

Skinny-shaming is much worse than Fat-shaming. Being overweight is correlated with so much insecurity and inadequacy and mental/health issues that we don't need to see any more of. No thin person needs to be brought down to their level just to make themselves feel better.


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## StarFollowed (May 5, 2014)

Mair said:


> there is no reason to bully others for their weight and make them feel horrible about themselves. Do you think the media who fat-shames people cares about them being healthy? No, they only make people feel like dirt.


Yes and no. The problem is that if someone promotes or attempts to encourage health and fitness and healthy-eating habits, it is still labeled as "fat-shaming" anyway. I believe that everyone deserves to truly LOVE what they see when they look in the mirror, because when it's to the point that people are getting offended and easily hurt by being overweight, it can't be healthy. You can't be truly happy. 

I was there once. I know how it feels. Being 25 pounds overweight made me feel like dirt. I didn't like what I saw in the mirror. I wanted people to see past my weight. I was lying to myself. I decided to make steps to get my body where it needed to be. And it became easier than I thought since I didn't do anything drastic. I just switched to smaller plates and as the weight dropped, I didn't want to eat out anymore, and wanted to eat healthier foods. I feel better.

If people are so bothered by their weight, they should want to seek-out healthy measures and _evolve_ not project their insecurities onto others or demand everything to be handed to them. Life doesn't work that way.


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## Blazkovitz (Mar 16, 2014)

The idea of "real women" or "real men" is sexist. If one told us to be "real blacks" or "real whites", we would instantly recognize the racism.

I find wide hips and decently sized breasts more attractive than twig-like shapes of models. However, a flat belly is also a nice thing to stare at. An attractive female shape seems to be rather like Aristotle's idea of "golden mean", in this case between obesity and anorexia.


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## Eska (Aug 18, 2014)

I think some people are missing the point behind the biological reasons as to why certain shapes/assets/physiques are more attractive than others.

There are ideal standards regarding proportions, for both sexes.


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## StarFollowed (May 5, 2014)

Eska said:


> I think some people are missing the point behind the biological reasons as to why certain shapes/assets/physiques are more attractive than others.


THIS!!^ Thank you!


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## Mair (Feb 17, 2014)

Tangled In Flowers said:


> Yes and no. The problem is that if someone promotes or attempts to encourage health and fitness and healthy-eating habits, it is still labeled as "fat-shaming" anyway. I believe that everyone deserves to truly LOVE what they see when they look in the mirror, because when it's to the point that people are getting offended and easily hurt by being overweight, it can't be healthy. You can't be truly happy.
> 
> I was there once. I know how it feels. Being 25 pounds overweight made me feel like dirt. I didn't like what I saw in the mirror. I wanted people to see past my weight. I was lying to myself. I decided to make steps to get my body where it needed to be. And it became easier than I thought since I didn't do anything drastic. I just switched to smaller plates and as the weight dropped, I didn't want to eat out anymore, and wanted to eat healthier foods. I feel better.
> 
> If people are so bothered by their weight, they should want to seek-out healthy measures and _evolve_ not project their insecurities onto others or demand everything to be handed to them. Life doesn't work that way.


Society does promote having healthy bodies. When did you hear anyone saying that being obese is attractive or good for you? Last time I checked the media goes crazy every time a celebrity dares to gain a few kilograms and all magazines are about diets and how to lose weight.


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## bluekitdon (Dec 19, 2012)

I hate this being tied to beauty, beauty is always subjective. Personally my preference is a woman who looks healthy. Not overly skinny, not significantly overweight. I don't really care for those that are so muscled out they look like guys either. That covers a pretty broad spectrum, if a woman is eating somewhat healthy & doing a little exercise she should be just fine in my book. 

I agree though that society has taken it to the extreme when we are saying that it's perfectly fine to be unhealthy because we shouldn't judge people, and we should even encourage those who are overweight by saying that they shouldn't worry about it. I don't judge people unless I'm looking at someone to be with for an extended period of time. I personally wouldn't want a partner that has a life expectancy that has been cut drastically by unhealthy decisions and is unable to be active for any length of time. According to the FDA, you have about a 60% chance of having a good quality of life at age 80 if you stay physically fit, compared to only about a 10% chance at that age if you do not.

Good tool for figuring out where you should be.
Ideal Weight Calculator

Interesting article on obesity. Most people don't realize that it is linked to many types of cancer, diabetes, heart disease, and many physical disabilities. 
The Role of Obesity - Explaining Divergent Levels of Longevity in High-Income Countries - NCBI Bookshelf


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## spylass (Jan 25, 2014)

The fact that obesity is on the rise (Especially in children) is not because we have a generation of "lazy" children. It's because the quality of food in the industries is getting lower and lower, there are more and more chemicals added into foods, and hormones that are pumped into livestock end up in people's bodies (unless they buy completely organic, which is expensive.) People who have less money, buy cheaper food, and the chemicals and hormones disrupts their bodies, give them a lot of health problems- including obesity. 

Instead of judging people for how they look why not try this: don't be an asshole. Let them feel comfortable in their bodies, and leave it to them to worry about their health. It is not your job to worry about other people's health or criticize them for having a music video about feeling good about themselves. 

Even if they are obese because of their lifestyle choice, who are you to criticize their lifestyle? Worry about your self, and don't bother other people with your toxic attitudes. If you think other people are not pretty enough for you, then look away and get over yourself.


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## DAPHNE XO (Jan 16, 2012)

isingthebodyelectric said:


> It's a dumb thing to say, let's just leave it at that.


Yeah I kind of get the vibe OP just wants to blame and shame fat people.


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## Children Of The Bad Revolution (Oct 8, 2013)

Blazkovitz said:


> The idea of "real women" or "real men" is sexist. If one told us to be "real blacks" or "real whites", we would instantly recognize the racism.
> 
> *I find wide hips and decently sized breasts more attractive than twig-like shapes of models.* However, a flat belly is also a nice thing to stare at. An attractive female shape seems to be rather like Aristotle's idea of "golden mean", in this case between obesity and anorexia.


Rme.

See, the beginning of your post was good and then you got into saying that typical stuff. Some women are skinny and very thin, some men need to get over that. Yes, there is a lot of discrimination from men towards women who are really skinny so men are hypocritical in this sense. I think it's wrong that women like me with smaller breasts but with bigger hips aren't considered "curvy" because we don't have the 36-24-36 shape men want. Why is everything dictated by men particularly women's bodies?

And what are 'decently sized breasts'? Hate all this politics with body shapes and sizes; can we not just accept each other as we are?


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## spylass (Jan 25, 2014)

Eska said:


> I think some people are missing the point behind the biological reasons as to why certain shapes/assets/physiques are more attractive than others.
> 
> There are ideal standards regarding proportions, for both sexes.



Standards change constantly. Standards are different from person to person, and each culture and time period has their own beauty standards. Being heavy has actually been an ideal image for a woman in many cultures before (a lot of the time, being heavier would be a sign of good health because it meant you could afford food.) 






























The idea that thin women are the ideal only became common in our culture in the 1960s. The idea that thinness=health that people are mentioning on this thread is not entirely accurate. Most of the models that we see in magazines and T.V are actually very sickly- they are photoshopped to look healthier because their skin and hair is dull, and their bones protrude, because they are underweight. 
UNIQUE UNUSUAL OR INTERESTING: Another Disturbing Photoshop Trend - Making Sickly Thin Models Look Healthy
So if you think the images of thin women you see in magazines/TV are an image of perfect health, you're completely disillusioned. 

That being said- there are of course people who are very thin and healthy. And there are people who are overweight and healthy as well. 

There are almost no universal beauty standards other than being young and have a symmetrical face and body. 

The Evolution of the Ideal Female Body
The Ideal Woman Through the Ages: Photos : Discovery News
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...eauty-culture-specific-or-universally-defined

Your own subjective standards are most likely at least somewhat influenced by the constant imagery and ideas perpetuated by the media. "Real women" vary in body shape, and are allowed to feel good about themselves regardless of if they have your approval.


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## spylass (Jan 25, 2014)

And people who claim that they just care about the "health" of people who don't fit their standards of beauty- yeah I can see how much you care by judging, criticizing and deeming all overweight people to be lazy and telling them they aren't allowed to have high self-esteem, or have a single music video about feeling good about themselves while being fat. 

Don't pretend that you care about "health". Just say it how it is: you're a judgmental asshole.

That goes for plenty of people who've posted on this thread. Get a hobby and stop judging other people who aren't doing anything harmful to you, just because they don't fulfill your standards of "ideal beauty."


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## Eska (Aug 18, 2014)

isingthebodyelectric said:


> Rme.
> 
> See, the beginning of your post was good and then you got into saying that typical stuff. Some women are skinny and very thin, some men need to get over that. Yes, there is a lot of discrimination from men towards women who are really skinny so men are hypocritical in this sense. I think it's wrong that women like me with smaller breasts but with bigger hips aren't considered "curvy" because we don't have the 36-24-36 shape men want. Why is everything dictated by men particularly women's bodies?
> 
> And what are 'decently sized breasts'? Hate all this politics with body shapes and sizes; can we not just accept each other as we are?


I don't see the issue.

One has the ability and right to prefer a certain particularity.



spylass said:


> Standards change [...]


Are you adding to my point or are you disagreeing with something I've said?

I'm not in disagreement with what you're saying.


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## StarFollowed (May 5, 2014)

spylass said:


> The fact that obesity is on the rise (Especially in children) is not because we have a generation of "lazy" children. It's because the quality of food in the industries is getting lower and lower, there are more and more chemicals added into foods, and hormones that are pumped into livestock end up in people's bodies (unless they buy completely organic, which is expensive.) People who have less money, buy cheaper food, and the chemicals and hormones disrupts their bodies, give them a lot of health problems- including obesity.
> 
> Instead of judging people for how they look why not try this: don't be an asshole. Let them feel comfortable in their bodies, and leave it to them to worry about their health. It is not your job to worry about other people's health or criticize them for having a music video about feeling good about themselves.
> 
> Even if they are obese because of their lifestyle choice, who are you to criticize their lifestyle? Worry about your self, and don't bother other people with your toxic attitudes. If you think other people are not pretty enough for you, then look away and get over yourself.


Woah, what's got your panties in a twist? 

People make excuses for not eating healthy, and it makes my blood boil. We can sit here and debate on the quality (or lack of) of food and corn syrup and all the nasty stuff out there in our products right now. . . does that mean we _have_ to eat them? The fact that children obesity is on the rise is not the laziness or lack of exercise - we eat mindlessly and don't teach children proper fucking eating habits because guess what? _Their_ parents have not been told the importance of heathy eating and picking oatmeal with blueberries instead of fucking Fruit Loops or some shit. We eat too much. We celebrate with food, use food for comfort, let children overeat, use over-sized plates, suffer from portion distortion, and we eat to the point where leptin doesn't signal that we've had enough - because of the empty calories and we are so nutrient deprived as a nation - _That's_ why we gain weight. _That's_ why it's not acceptable to be overweight. You wouldn't tell a damn smoker that smoking is okay and "don't judge" or let them do whatever the hell they want. 

You act like there are no healthy alternatives. Healthy food is much more expensive, I know, but isn't it worth it? Isn't your health, and your future children's health important to you? Being overweight is not okay at all. You can spend a little more on food that is good instead of McDonald's just because it's cheaper.

This is the problem with everyone today. Everyone puts up with "the don't judge me" attitude and believe they can do whatever the hell they want. And when someone is stating the truth everyone is in denial or an "asshole". Would you tell people who tell others to stop smoking "assholes"? Because they are harming themselves?

Disfigurement and damage to the body is not beautiful. No one is truly "comfortable" with their bodies when they are overweight. Wether it's 10 pounds overweight or 100 pounds. No one really likes what they see when they are overweight. If I were to snap my fingers and give everyone a healthy, diabetes-free body with no health problems and 36-24-36 measurements, nobody would say no. Everyone wants to look good. When you look your best, you _feel_ your best. You feel good about yourself. You feel happy. You never look at your body and think "I don't look good" or "I'm fat" or upset when you don't like what you see. Or upset when your thinner friends try on clothes that you can't wear. Or how your friends look decent in bikinis. 

The problem with that is that it takes a bit of dedication. Weight is something that is so little of an obstacle if people understand the importance of balance and mindful eating. We wouldn't have all these problems and body image stuff and confidence issues as deep and as serious when people are heavier. People don't know where to start, and don't want to work for it. They're somewhat afraid. They're afraid of what will happen. They put on this facade and try to prove that they are happy. 

The reason being overweight is wrong is that nobody _deserves_ looking in the mirror and not loving what they see. Everyone deserves that. But being overweight will cause confidence issues, and it's not okay to just "let them be". What's toxic is not my attitude, but what you put in your body. What you look like is a reflection of a kind of self-destructive behavior. 

It's okay to say, "being fat is not healthy - I'm going change". For health reasons, aesthetic reasons, or both. People shouldn't be so critical when people want to change for the better. Being physically attractive is an advantage. You will never lose anything when you lose weight, you will only gain confidence. When you are overweight, you never truly gain any of that - only resentment and demanding "acceptance" or becoming angry at the world for not supporting your decision.


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## StarFollowed (May 5, 2014)

spylass said:


> And people who claim that they just care about the "health" of people who don't fit their standards of beauty- yeah I can see how much you care by judging, criticizing and deeming all overweight people to be lazy and telling them they aren't allowed to have high self-esteem, or have a single music video about feeling good about themselves while being fat.
> 
> Don't pretend that you care about "health". Just say it how it is: you're a judgmental asshole.
> 
> That goes for plenty of people who've posted on this thread. Get a hobby and stop judging other people who aren't doing anything harmful to you, just because they don't fulfill your standards of "ideal beauty."


I never said they were lazy. My best friend is 100 pounds overweight, but has lost 10 pounds in a few months. What I'm saying is that we eat too much and project our insecurities onto people and call thin people "twigs" or "skinny bitches". Lying to yourself is never okay. We have all these body issues, and it just goes to show that people are meant to be thinner than what we think. If you don't like what you see, and think you're fat, then lose a few pounds by eating a little less. It's not that hard.


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## StarFollowed (May 5, 2014)

DaphneDelRey said:


> Yeah I kind of get the vibe OP just wants to blame and shame fat people.


Telling people they are making unhealthy choices and woman putting woman down due to their own insecurities is not "fat shaming" when pointing out the damaging behavior. Making healthy choices is the key. Being active is the key. If everybody was at a healthy weight, we wouldn't be having all these passive-agressive attitudes and hate just because some people point out the truth. People don't want to hear the truth. People need to put down that Double Bacon Cheeseburger, and get a small fries and a Fish Filet for a start. 

People eat too much. We shouldn't allow people to eat 4,000 calories a day. We don't need songs to reassure us that we need to feel good about ourselves unless we don't feel good about ourselves. This is a result of external forces like the media, but the most powerful influence is internal more than anything.


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## koalaroo (Nov 25, 2011)

Tangled In Flowers said:


> If you don't like what you see, and think you're fat, then lose a few pounds by eating a little less. It's not that hard.


This is pretty unhealthy to say. I'm pretty sure I suffer from body dysmorphia. Even when I'm thin, the scale says I'm thin, body fat percentage says I'm thin ... I still essentially "see" a fat person. I'm 20 lbs overweight at the moment and see someone extremely fat when I look in the mirror, although I've been told I'm not fat. I'm also a recovering bulimic.


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## StarFollowed (May 5, 2014)

bluekitdon said:


> Personally my preference is a woman who looks healthy. Not overly skinny, not significantly overweight. I don't really care for those that are so muscled out they look like guys either. That covers a pretty broad spectrum, if a woman is eating somewhat healthy & doing a little exercise she should be just fine in my book.


This is exactly what I'm saying but explained it in a very technical way. "healthy" in terms of body fat percentage is between 17%-31%. Everyone has a preference of course, but some body types are more preferred than others. A healthy body fat percentage correlates with people on the "thin" side. "Thin" is anywhere between, let's say, a size 0 to 8/10. So there is a wide spectrum, I was just referring to what is the most healthy and why thinner people are more attractive than others based on BF%.


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## DAPHNE XO (Jan 16, 2012)

Tangled In Flowers said:


> *Telling people they are making unhealthy choices and woman putting woman down due to their own insecurities is not "fat shaming"*


You're lying. The very definition of putting someone down is to shame them. 
People make unhealthy choices everyday - smoke a cigarette, dye their hair, drink alcohol, take drugs, work themselves into fits of rage. <- Do you campaign against these behaviours also? Where are the threads?



> when pointing out the damaging behavior. Making healthy choices is the key. Being active is the key.


Stop preaching to people, it's really coming across as self-righteousness.



> If everybody was at a healthy weight, we wouldn't be having all these passive-agressive attitudes and hate just because some people point out the truth.


Yup, definitely self-righteous, and also clearly ignorant. Not everyone is attracted to a healthy weight, in fact in many cultures, past and present, being a larger woman was actually more attractive, because it showed the woman was from a higher social class (aka, she could afford to eat well).



> *People don't want to hear the truth.*


Irony, surely?



> People need to put down that Double Bacon Cheeseburger, and get a small fries and a Fish Filet for a start.


This is the dumbest thing I've read in a while. If someone is used to eating double bacon's, if you tell them to swap to a fish filet, they'll just need more of them to make up the same calorie count. No.

Losing weight is more than just changing what you eat.



> People eat too much. We shouldn't allow people to eat 4,000 calories a day. We don't need songs to reassure us that we need to feel good about ourselves unless we don't feel good about ourselves. This is a result and people, but the most powerful influence is internal more than anything.


Stop preaching.


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## StarFollowed (May 5, 2014)

koalaroo said:


> This is pretty unhealthy to say. I'm pretty sure I suffer from body dysmorphia. Even when I'm thin, the scale says I'm thin, body fat percentage says I'm thin ... I still essentially "see" a fat person. I'm 20 lbs overweight at the moment and see someone extremely fat when I look in the mirror, although I've been told I'm not fat. I'm also a recovering bulimic.


I suffered from body dysmorphia after I lost weight because I still saw myself as 25 pounds overweight. My point was that people who are growing-up, have bad habits, eat more than what they need to, shouldn't be having body issues if they were eating right. If you think you need to lose a few pounds, then we shouldn't be attempting to excuse this kind of behavior and take steps to change. If you have unhealthy habits and are overweight, then lose weight. That's what I'm saying.

It takes a while for your brain to catch up with your body. It takes some people years to recover. I'm not bashing people who suffer from that. My point is that people who have unhealthy habits shouldn't make excuses not to lose weight.


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## Euclid (Mar 20, 2014)

We all know the truth even when we bullshit ourselves and each other.


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## ai.tran.75 (Feb 26, 2014)

koalaroo said:


> This is pretty unhealthy to say. I'm pretty sure I suffer from body dysmorphia. Even when I'm thin, the scale says I'm thin, body fat percentage says I'm thin ... I still essentially "see" a fat person. I'm 20 lbs overweight at the moment and see someone extremely fat when I look in the mirror, although I've been told I'm not fat. I'm also a recovering bulimic.


I'm sorry that you're suffering through this and realize that the previous post isn't attacking overweight people but rather acknowledging that obesity is unhealthy . Also as a really thin person - I've been attacked my whole life for being anorexic - bulimic etc and with the news and magazine and even certain songs nowaday - thin people (I've seen actresses who are my size ) being called "scary" or " anorexic" and anorexia is a rare term affecting only 1-5 % of the population . I think that's where she's trying to get at - not at people who are over weighted but people who body fat % which is over 30% - which is true can be dangerous . Also I don't think being 20 lbs overweight is big and I'm quite sure that you yourself know this but it's more of a psychosis thing that make you feel this way . As long as you're healthy then all that should matter  I know of thin people who hand high percent body fat and high cholesterol that too is unhealthy -


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## StarFollowed (May 5, 2014)

DaphneDelRey said:


> This is the dumbest thing I've read in a while. If someone is used to eating double bacon's, if you tell them to swap to a fish filet, they'll just need more of them to make up the same calorie count. No.


? Because they're bodies are so used to consuming higher calories than what is necessary. Eat less. I've lost weight. I know what I'm talking about.

And it's funny how people bring up that some cultures believe that fat is a sign of beauty/prosperity. It's certainly not impressive or the case now. Do you want everyone to live in third world environments? Being fat is nothing to be proud of since it's not an achievement.


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## StarFollowed (May 5, 2014)

DaphneDelRey said:


> You're lying. The very definition of putting someone down is to shame them.


Umm. . . how is that putting people down? It's like telling a smoker that their lungs are black and their going to get cancer if they don't stop. Is that shaming or stating the truth?


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## StarFollowed (May 5, 2014)

ai.tran.75 said:


> I'm sorry that you're suffering through this and realize that the previous post isn't attacking overweight people but rather acknowledging that obesity is unhealthy . Also as a really thin person - I've been attacked my whole life for being anorexic - bulimic etc and with the news and magazine and even certain songs nowaday - thin people (I've seen actresses who are my size ) being called "scary" or " anorexic" and anorexia is a rare term affecting only 1-5 % of the population . I think that's where she's trying to get at - not at people who are over weighted but people who body fat % which is over 30% - which is true can be dangerous . Also I don't think being 20 lbs overweight is big and I'm quite sure that you yourself know this but it's more of a psychosis thing that make you feel this way . As long as you're healthy then all that should matter  I know of thin people who hand high percent body fat and high cholesterol that too is unhealthy -


This is exactly what I wanted to say but it didn't come out that way. Sorry Koalaroo


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## DAPHNE XO (Jan 16, 2012)

Tangled In Flowers said:


> ? Because they're bodies are so used to consuming higher calories than what is necessary. Eat less. *I've lost weight. I know what I'm talking about.*


Ahh, so that's the kind of person you are. Now your motivation for creating this thread is obvious.



> And it's funny how people bring up that some cultures believe that fat is a sign of beauty/prosperity. It's certainly not impressive or the case now. *Do you want everyone to live in third world environments? Being fat is nothing to be proud of since it's not an achievement.*


This makes no sense-> if being fat is being seen as a sign of wealth, then yes, they do see it as an achievement, ergo, they see it as something to be proud of.

And the reason the behaviour is being discouraged is because force-feeding is being banned as illegal and abusive -> that's got nothing to do with the goal of being larger.



Tangled In Flowers said:


> Umm. . . how is that putting people down? It's like telling a smoker that they're lungs are black and their going to get cancer if they don't stop. Is that shaming or stating the truth?


Are you serious right now?


noun: *shame*
*1*. 

a painful feeling of humiliation or distress caused by the consciousness of wrong or foolish behaviour.
"she was hot with shame"

synonyms:humiliation, mortification, chagrin, ignominy, loss of face, shamefacedness, embarrassment, indignity, abashment, discomfort, discomfiture, discomposure

Shame is the worst motivator for changing behaviour, especially in the cases of people with obesity issues. Shame is a really bad behavioural deterrant altogether, because people become addicted to, and feed on, the shame. _Shame _is what makes them persist in the behaviour you're telling them to cease and desist.

Telling someone their lifestyle is unhealthy and you want to help them by telling them they'll die soon is just so wrong. 

Obesity (or eating addiction, as I refer to it) is best dealt with by coaching the person into more body positive ideas.

Reward is better than punishment, basically.


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## DAPHNE XO (Jan 16, 2012)

Eska said:


> Obesity is not an addiction, it's a physical condition.
> 
> What feeds obesity is a lifestyle where a person's caloric intake outweighs the caloric output by a significant amount, on an extended period of time, and as the body fat level accumulates, this person eventually reaches the state of being obese.
> 
> *Lack of discipline and adequate nutrition* is what causes obesity, not "*shame and chronic self-esteem issues*".


Okay but that's not what the literature says? So unless you want to back your claims up?
And I'll back mine up too if you want. I can drag up papers if need be.

But your comment seems a little contradicting, is an addiction not a sustained habit, which can also be seen as a lifestyle?

And I also don't know why all these things can't work together, as in they are all factors, not one or the other. Surely self-esteem would affect discipline, would cause shame, would result in you not taking steps to get adequate nutrition?


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## Eska (Aug 18, 2014)

DaphneDelRey said:


> Okay but that's not what the literature says? So unless you want to back your claims up?
> And I'll back mine up too if you want. I can drag up papers if need be.
> 
> But your comment seems a little contradicting, is an addiction not a sustained habit, which can also be seen as a lifestyle?


What literature?

Are you claiming that obesity is not a physical condition? Are you claiming that obesity is an "addiction"?

My comment is not contradicting.

The addiction is to binge/eat in excess, the lifestyle is the continuity of that addiction over a significant period of time, the result is the physical condition known as "obesity" or being "obese".


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## DAPHNE XO (Jan 16, 2012)

Eska said:


> What literature?
> 
> Are you claiming that obesity is not a physical condition? Are you claiming that obesity is an "addiction"?
> 
> ...


Addictions are the centre of someone's lives, so surely that dictates their lifestyle? I'm not sure why you're separating the two, they're inextricably linked.

and the fact that obesity isn't a habit one just "stops" like that, points to the suggestion it's an addiction?

And the fact it signals more activity in the brain's reward system and centre, where all addictions occur, again, suggests it's an addiction?

I'll have to drag up my behavioural addictions textbook, but they reference papers in there, if you're interested, if not let me know because I'm really comfy and don't really want to move.

The addiction part is the behaviour - the one which makes them seek out food chronically to eat, even when they're not hungry.


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## spylass (Jan 25, 2014)

Tangled In Flowers said:


> Woah, what's got your panties in a twist?
> 
> People make excuses for not eating healthy, and it makes my blood boil. We can sit here and debate on the quality (or lack of) of food and corn syrup and all the nasty stuff out there in our products right now. . . does that mean we _have_ to eat them? The fact that children obesity is on the rise is not the laziness or lack of exercise - we eat mindlessly and don't teach children proper fucking eating habits because guess what? _Their_ parents have not been told the importance of heathy eating and picking oatmeal with blueberries instead of fucking Fruit Loops or some shit. We eat too much. We celebrate with food, use food for comfort, let children overeat, use over-sized plates, suffer from portion distortion, and we eat to the point where leptin doesn't signal that we've had enough - because of the empty calories and we are so nutrient deprived as a nation - _That's_ why we gain weight. _That's_ why it's not acceptable to be overweight. You wouldn't tell a damn smoker that smoking is okay and "don't judge" or let them do whatever the hell they want.
> 
> ...


Why does it make your "blood boil", that other people have their own lives and make their own decisions?


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## StarFollowed (May 5, 2014)

spylass said:


> Why does it make your "blood boil", that other people have their own lives and make their own decisions?


If you're not going to answer me then I'm kindly asking you to get off this thread.


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## Eska (Aug 18, 2014)

DaphneDelRey said:


> Addictions are the centre of someone's lives, so surely that dictates their lifestyle? I'm not sure why you're separating the two, their inextricably linked.
> 
> and the fact that obesity isn't a habit one just "stops" like that, points to the suggestion it's an addiction?
> 
> ...


Obesity is not a behavior.

Obesity is a physical state that results from a certain behavior over a period of time.

Obesity is a term attributed to the state in which a body is in, regarding it's body fat percentage in relation to the rest of the body's constitution.

Obesity;

"An obese person has accumulated so much body fat that it might have a negative effect on their health. If a person's bodyweight is at least 20% higher than it should be, he or she is considered obese. If your Body Mass Index (BMI) is between 25 and 29.9 you are considered overweight. If your BMI is 30 or over you are considered obese./B]" - *http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/info/obesity/*


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## DAPHNE XO (Jan 16, 2012)

Eska said:


> Obesity is not a behavior.


I never said that at all. So I don't know where you got that from.



> Obesity is a physical state that results from a certain behavior over a period of time.


Right, and what sort of behaviours persist over time? Addictions!!! *ding, ding, ding*



> Obesity is a term attributed to the state in which a body is in, regarding it's body fat percentage in relation to the rest of the body's constitution.


Well I'm glad Captain Obvious is on board.

What makes someone get obese, if not chronic eating? _Even when the person is not hungry._


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## Eska (Aug 18, 2014)

DaphneDelRey said:


> I never said that at all. So I don't know where you got that from.
> 
> Right, and what sort of behaviours persist over time? Addictions!!! *ding, ding, ding*
> 
> ...


You clearly said "Obesity is an addiction.",



DaphneDelRey said:


> *cringe*
> 
> *Obesity is an addiction.* Over-eating to the point that your health is at major risk is a behavioural addiction.


Then you said that the addiction part is the behavior,



DaphneDelRey said:


> *The addiction part is the behaviour* - the one which makes them seek out food chronically to eat, even when they're not hungry.


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## StarFollowed (May 5, 2014)

DaphneDelRey said:


> I never said that at all. So I don't know where you got that from.
> 
> 
> Right, and what sort of behaviours persist over time? Addictions!!! *ding, ding, ding*
> ...


I think I get what she's trying to say, but labeling obesity as "an addiction" is a gross exaggeration.


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## DAPHNE XO (Jan 16, 2012)

Eska said:


> You clearly said "Obesity is an addiction.".
> 
> 
> 
> Then you said that the addiction part is the behavior.


So your problem is semantics - "chronic eating is an addiction which makes people become obese."

My bad should have made that distinction clearer.



Tangled In Flowers said:


> I think I get what she's trying to say, but labeling obesity as "an addiction" is a gross exaggeration.


I still am 100% sure you have no idea what you're talking about, but I'm trying to not focus on that part because of your previous battles and victories. I'm really trying to not be as sarcastic with you as I am to most, so I'm not going to engage you in a game of "who knows more about it than whom." Is that okay with you? I get really bad and it wouldn't be fair on you.


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## Eska (Aug 18, 2014)

DaphneDelRey said:


> What makes someone get obese, if not chronic eating? _Even when the person is not hungry._


Eating when you're not hungry is not what makes someone obese.

A significant caloric imbalance over an extended period of time, is what makes someone obese.


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## DAPHNE XO (Jan 16, 2012)

Eska said:


> Eating when you're not hungry is not what makes someone obese.
> 
> A significant caloric imbalance over an extended period of time, is what makes someone obese.


I said "even" when that person is not hungry, not ONLY when that person is not hungry.


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## stargazing grasshopper (Oct 25, 2013)

[No message]


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## StarFollowed (May 5, 2014)

DaphneDelRey said:


> I still am 100% sure you have no idea what you're talking about.


Oh, sure. _I_ have no idea what I'm talking about? _I_ don't know what it takes to be healthy? _I_ don't know how food affects people? _I_ don't know how people use food for other uses? Because after all, I made this thread, so I obviously don't know what I'm talking about! *sarcasm*

People today. . . . never want to listen to what they don't like.


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## DAPHNE XO (Jan 16, 2012)

Tangled In Flowers said:


> Oh, sure. _I_ have no idea what I'm talking about? _I_ don't know what it takes to be healthy? _I_ don't know how food affects people? _I_ don't know how people use food for other uses? Because after all, I made this thread, so I obviously don't know what I'm talking about!


Yes, because an obsessive habit of counting/watching over other people's eating habits is not indicative of healthy behaviour. I rarely notice what anyone else eats, unless I want it for myself, let alone how large/small/whatever it is.

But this is exactly the kind of exchange I told you I wanted to avoid, so I'm stopping now. You're really defensive. I can hold and express my opinion whether or not you agree, just as you have been doing with me in this thread. You have told me I don't know what I'm talking about as well, and I accept that, because I genuinely don't care about your opinion at all.


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## StarFollowed (May 5, 2014)

DaphneDelRey said:


> Yes, because an obsessive habit of counting/watching over other people's eating habits is not indicative of healthy behaviour.


Sure. They say that watching what you put in your mouth is an eating disorder. Obesity is genetic and a whole bunch of BS.

WTF is wrong with the world today? The healthiest thing you can do is to make sure you're healthy. Now go eat a salad. Stop encouraging others to pick-up a cheeseburger, goddamnmit.

You can state your own opinion, but bashing me when I was trying to be a bit understanding was stupid and childish.


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## stargazing grasshopper (Oct 25, 2013)

Tangled In Flowers said:


> Oh, sure. _I_ have no idea what I'm talking about? _I_ don't know what it takes to be healthy? _I_ don't know how food affects people? _I_ don't know how people use food for other uses? Because after all, I made this thread, so I obviously don't know what I'm talking about! *sarcasm*
> 
> People today. . . . never want to listen to what they don't like.


You're wasting keystrokes on that one.


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## spylass (Jan 25, 2014)

Tangled In Flowers said:


> If you're not going to answer me then I'm kindly asking you to get off this thread.


This is a forum. If you want people to tell you what you want to hear, instead of sharing their opinions, then you shouldn't have posted on a forum. You don't have to answer my questions, and I don't have to answer yours. The idea that your blood boils over other people's life decisions seems to me, like an unhealthy attitude, so I asked. I am done here. 

I still don't get why you bothered with a thread like this if you just going to ask people kindly to not post on it.


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## Sporadic Aura (Sep 13, 2009)

Probably a super simplistic view on this..

But yeah, obesity should definitely be discouraged, not for beauty though, but for health reasons. We should value living in a healthy society with healthy individuals.


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## DAPHNE XO (Jan 16, 2012)

Tangled In Flowers said:


> Sure. They say that watching what you put in your mouth is an eating disorder. Obesity is genetic and a whole bunch of BS.
> 
> WTF is wrong with the world today? The healthiest thing you can do is to make sure you're healthy. Now go eat a salad. Stop encouraging others to pick-up a cheeseburger, goddamnmit.
> 
> You can state your own opinion, but bashing me when *I was trying to be a bit understanding was stupid and childish*.


Do you realise this is a pot, calling the kettle black situation?

What you're accusing me of, though I admit I am guilty of, so are you. So the fact you have a problem with it, means that you are the one more emotionally invested in this thread, therefore less open to differing opinions.

If you tell me I'm an idiot who doesn't know what I'm talking about, and prove me wrong in my point, I'll accept that because I know when I express an opinion, there might be others that know more than me about that particular subject, and they will probably feel compelled to let me know why I'm wrong. It's a risk I take every time I open my mouth, and I accept it.


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## StarFollowed (May 5, 2014)

spylass said:


> This is a forum. If you want people to tell you what you want to hear, instead of sharing their opinions, then you shouldn't have posted on a forum. You don't have to answer my questions, and I don't have to answer yours. The idea that your blood boils over other people's life decisions seems to me, like an unhealthy attitude, so I asked. I am done here.
> 
> I still don't get why you bothered with a thread like this if you just going to ask people kindly to not post on it.


WTH are you talking about? I did answer your questions and gave concrete examples and provided empathy, whereas you called me an asshole and put words in my mouth and accused me of calling people lazy when I said nothing of that sort. You didn't even read what I had to say. You just think that anyone who points out this unhealthy lifestyle is just saying the same BS and are judgmental and calling people "lazy" or claiming that they lack self control? _Really?_


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## koalaroo (Nov 25, 2011)

stargazing-grasshopper

There's actually not much you can do when you're doing 2 hours of cardio a day, only eating 1200 calories a day and not really losing weight. And for what it's worth, BMI is not in percentages.


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## stargazing grasshopper (Oct 25, 2013)

Tangled In Flowers said:


> View attachment 215666
> 
> 
> Body fat percentages^
> ...


I appreciate curvy women, I suspect that my opinion of curvy doesn't represent many of the members at this site.

Curvy


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## stargazing grasshopper (Oct 25, 2013)

koalaroo said:


> stargazing-grasshopper
> 
> There's actually not much you can do when you're doing 2 hours of cardio a day, only eating 1200 calories a day and not really losing weight. And for what it's worth, BMI is not in percentages.


 It's worth was zero.


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## Eska (Aug 18, 2014)

koalaroo said:


> stargazing-grasshopper
> 
> There's actually not much you can do when you're doing 2 hours of cardio a day, only eating 1200 calories a day and not really losing weight. And for what it's worth, BMI is not in percentages.


There are multiple ways of breaking a plateau by altering your nutrition and training regiment.

There's also the possibility of using certain drugs (steroids/hormones).


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## Thomas60 (Aug 7, 2011)

*Drop the cattiness and the subtle digs at other members. Especially if you're not here to participate in the topic.*


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## koalaroo (Nov 25, 2011)

Eska said:


> There are multiple ways of breaking a plateau by altering your nutrition and training regiment.
> 
> There's also the possibility of using certain drugs (steroids/hormones).


The word is "regimen" for what it's worth, and things didn't work to the point where my doctor wanted me to stop exercising 100% (cardio anyway). I'm just maintaining weight at about 1200 calories a day while weight lifting three times per week for about an hour at a time. Good news is, I now have a killer booty that I get complimented on.


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## StarFollowed (May 5, 2014)

Eska said:


> There are multiple ways of breaking a plateau by altering your nutrition and training regiment.
> 
> There's also the possibility of using certain drugs (steroids/hormones).


Yeah, I had to bump up my calories to 1,300-1,400 for a couple of weeks until the scale started moving again.


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## StarFollowed (May 5, 2014)

side note: This is so much more common than we realize.^


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## Pyogenes (Feb 12, 2014)

koalaroo said:


> stargazing-grasshopper
> 
> There's actually not much you can do when you're doing 2 hours of cardio a day, only eating 1200 calories a day and not really losing weight. And for what it's worth, BMI is not in percentages.


There's actually a lot you can do. This is a common trap many people fall into and it is completely counterproductive.


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## koalaroo (Nov 25, 2011)

Pyogenes said:


> There's actually a lot you can do. This is a common trap many people fall into and it is completely counterproductive.


There's a lot I did do with the help of medical professionals that didn't work!


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## Pyogenes (Feb 12, 2014)

koalaroo said:


> There's a lot I did do with the help of medical professionals that didn't work!


I know, that is my point. That is why it is a common trap; it comes from physicians. Physicians spend maybe 2 credit hours their entire medical school career on nutrition and exercise. And what little training they get is mostly based on literature from the 1980s. They're woefully inadequate in their training when they wander into this field. And most nutritionists aren't any better, since their training is little more than a selling manifesto for big food corporations.


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## StarFollowed (May 5, 2014)

koalaroo said:


> There's a lot I did do with the help of medical professionals that didn't work!


Maybe you need to up your calories a bit? I mean, if you're maintaining on 1200 cals and exercising, maybe your body is trying to reset itself or/and you need a more fuel. Do you eat back your exercise calories? Or add more protein the days you exercise?

Eating 1200 calories is a little low if you are exercising that amount.


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## sink (May 21, 2014)

What does body fat have to do with being a woman in the first place?

What I don't like is how nowadays instead of people striving to be in a healthy body, it's all about 'accepting yourself'. So what's healthy about accepting a body that is unhealthy? Nothing. It's a wrong mindset to accept yourself in a state where you're destroying your body.

In the modern world instead of spreading awareness about what should be considered a healthy human body, we're going into the opposite direction. Because it's easier telling yourself other people are wrong because they don't consider an unhealthy body attractive, right?


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## koalaroo (Nov 25, 2011)

Tangled In Flowers said:


> Maybe you need to up your calories a bit? I mean, if you're maintaining on 1200 cals and exercising, maybe your body is trying to reset itself or/and you need a more fuel. Do you eat back your exercise calories? Or add more protein the days you exercise?


I tried that; I just gain weight. When I was doing cardio for hours a day, I was doing Zumba for an hour a day and cycling for an hour a day. The nurse practitioner tested my thyroid; I'm supposedly close to hyperthyroid levels for thyroid hormones when previously I had been hypothyroid two years ago. I'm about to bite the bullet and see a naturopathic doctor ... which just ultimately feels unscientific for me.


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## StarFollowed (May 5, 2014)

Karin said:


> What does body fat have to do with being a woman in the first place?


Fertility, health, appearance, what range is generally considered attractive.


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## StarFollowed (May 5, 2014)

koalaroo said:


> I tried that; I just gain weight. When I was doing cardio for hours a day, I was doing Zumba for an hour a day and cycling for an hour a day. The nurse practitioner tested my thyroid; I'm supposedly close to hyperthyroid levels for thyroid hormones when previously I had been hypothyroid two years ago. I'm about to bite the bullet and see a naturopathic doctor ... which just ultimately feels unscientific for me.


Are you taking your measurements? You might be losing inches all over, but nothing on the scale. 

I think your body has maybe gotten used to the the routine, and changing your macronutrients might help.

Or maybe patience is the best thing right now. The weight comes off so quickly in the beginning, it's easy to get discouraged. 

Or you could zig-zag 1200-1400 cals and do less reps, with greater intensity.


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## Pyogenes (Feb 12, 2014)

koalaroo said:


> I tried that; I just gain weight. When I was doing cardio for hours a day, I was doing Zumba for an hour a day and cycling for an hour a day. The nurse practitioner tested my thyroid; I'm supposedly close to hyperthyroid levels for thyroid hormones when previously I had been hypothyroid two years ago. I'm about to bite the bullet and see a naturopathic doctor ... which just ultimately feels unscientific for me.


That is completely expected. 1200 calories + 7days a week cardio + female physiology = endocrine problems.

I can not say for sure without seeing your bloodwork and knowing other intimate medical details, but you'd likely benefit from a strength training program. And yes, for the first 4 weeks of it, you will gain weight. One: muscle is much more dense than fat. Two: your metabolism will need to reach a new equilibrium after all the stress of low calories and high cardio has inflicted.

PM me sometime if you'd like. I'm no expert, but I can point you in the right direction.


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## StarFollowed (May 5, 2014)

pyogenes said:


> that is completely expected. 1200 calories + 7days a week cardio + female physiology = endocrine problems.
> 
> I can not say for sure without seeing your bloodwork and knowing other intimate medical details, but you'd likely benefit from a strength training program. And yes, for the first 4 weeks of it, you will gain weight. One: Muscle is much more dense than fat. Two: Your metabolism will need to reach a new equilibrium after all the stress of low calories and high cardio has inflicted.
> 
> Pm me sometime if you'd like. I'm no expert, but i can point you in the right direction.


this^


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## koalaroo (Nov 25, 2011)

@_Pyogenes_ -- If you'd read all of my posts, you'd know I weight lift three days a week for about an hour each. Been doing this since ... May or June.


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## Pyogenes (Feb 12, 2014)

koalaroo said:


> @_Pyogenes_ -- If you'd read all of my posts, you'd know I weight lift three days a week for about an hour each. Been doing this since ... May or June.


That doesn't tell me anything though. What lifts? Which days? How much weight? What progression intervals? How is your form? Etc.
Same thing with diet. 1200 calories tells me next to nothing. If it is 1200 calories of yogurt and ice cream, but you also have a dairy food allergy that you don't know about, it's destructive. If it is 1200 calories of kale and alaskan salmon, that is something completely different.

This is also why doctors can't help you. They will never have the time to manage all the necessary details for their patients.


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## Pyogenes (Feb 12, 2014)

.


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## In A Land Far Far Away (Aug 18, 2014)

I agree with everything you are saying and I am so glad and relieved that some one else is realizing how out of proportion (yes, accidental pun) this body acceptance movement is getting. It's rewarding people for choosing to be lazy and eating unhealthy foods. It needs to stop along with the skinny shaming. I'm in the middle (healthy) but naturally skinny women shouldn't be told they are less of a woman because they have small t & a. That's not fair.


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## stargazing grasshopper (Oct 25, 2013)

koalaroo said:


> stargazing-grasshopper
> 
> There's actually not much you can do when you're doing 2 hours of cardio a day, only eating 1200 calories a day and not really losing weight. And for what it's worth, BMI is not in percentages.


Maybe you've a genetic predisposition to be overweight, you'd best just accept that there's nothing wrong with being plus sized.


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## StarFollowed (May 5, 2014)

koalaroo said:


> @_Pyogenes_ -- If you'd read all of my posts, you'd know I weight lift three days a week for about an hour each. Been doing this since ... May or June.


Do you know your BF%? There's a certain BF% that the body typically likes and works hard to stay at. Maybe you're at a BF% that your body prefers/lower than what you think. Maybe.

I was stuck at 24% for a long time, even though I still had pounds left to lose.


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## stargazing grasshopper (Oct 25, 2013)

In A Land Far Far Away said:


> I agree with everything you are saying and I am so glad and relieved that some one else is realizing how out of proportion (yes, accidental pun) this body acceptance movement is getting. It's rewarding people for choosing to be lazy and eating unhealthy foods. It needs to stop along with the skinny shaming. I'm in the middle (healthy) but naturally skinny women shouldn't be told they are less of a woman because they have small t & a. That's not fair.


Curves are attractive & an indication of a healthy lifestyle but fat rolls indicate quite the opposite.
















Health conscious as a way of life rather than an occasional calorie counting anxiety attack.


Nicely curved women









the opposite of nicely curved










This image is worth a thousand words.


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## lawsfallmute (Oct 15, 2014)

I have no idea what's going on in this thread, but I'm just going to leave this here.


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## Donovan (Nov 3, 2009)

koalaroo said:


> stargazing-grasshopper
> 
> There's actually not much you can do when you're doing 2 hours of cardio a day, only eating 1200 calories a day and not really losing weight. And for what it's worth, BMI is not in percentages.


i want to say that with workouts like cardio, you eventually build enough muscle to handle what the strain would be, but past that point all you're really doing is burning the energy that was put into your body from eating--whereas the "muscle building" phase was either prompting you to eat much more, or energy was coming from your body in the way of utilizing fats/other reserves. 

what this means is that you'd actually have to potentially starve yourself, or really--and constantly--up the intensity of the workout so your body does not normalize around the activity...


or you could weight train. high weight in relation to what you could do only once, with low reps and moderate sets (around 5), and increasing the amount of weight anywhere from 5-10 pounds a week, and you'll build muscle (low reps and sets is more for strength, and isn't geared towards making anyone balloon-up/look masculine--not to mention most women aren't going to have the right hormonal level, aside from extreme dieting and workout, to get "bulging-guy"muscles... and only mentioned because that's usually the complaint i hear most). 


in any case, doing something like squats is a really great exercise as it: taxes the entire body, will potentially eat up all those "excess carbs"/allow you to eat regularly so you won't have to calorie-watch, and make you strong. (and having a healthy amount of muscle in itself calls for more of the bodies energy just to be maintained)

might be less time consuming and frustrating.


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## lawsfallmute (Oct 15, 2014)

koalaroo said:


> The word is "regimen" for what it's worth, and things didn't work to the point where my doctor wanted me to stop exercising 100% (cardio anyway). I'm just maintaining weight at about 1200 calories a day while weight lifting three times per week for about an hour at a time. Good news is, I now have a killer booty that I get complimented on.


Woah, what? You realize you're not actually building muscle when intaking such a low amount of energy, right?


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## StarFollowed (May 5, 2014)

[No message]


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## TheProphetLaLa (Aug 18, 2014)

And so here we have one of the main causes from which female self-esteem issues stem. One side tells us we're too skinny, the other side tells us we're too fat. Niiiiceeee. So basically, we're always being told that we don't look good enough. Couple that with the fact that one of a woman's main values is found in her looks and you have a lovely little brew of instant insecurity. And if I a see a single person tell me that "men are admired for looking good too!!!!"….Just stop. Yes, men and women are both admired for looks, but for women looks are considered much more important. 

Obesity isn't a problem thats only perpetuated and experienced by women. Its a problem that both men and women are experiencing, but women seem to bare the brunt of it seeing as so much importance is put on their level of physical attractiveness. Still this is a huuuggee issue in today's western society that needs to be addressed seriously, and not used to shame people and make them feel like they're worthless.

I'm afraid to say you're placing blame on the wrong things. Why are you automatically assuming that the women who are overweight are lazy? What a presumptuous thought. And while obesity may not be necessarily genetic, it is very much a learned behavior. Eating habits are learned at home. On an even wider scale, and the true root of the problem is the food industry itself, and the type of extremely unhealthy nourishment that is being presented and marketed to us at every turn (ex:school cafeterias) It baffles me that people don't consider societal systems to be the main problem in things like this but instead point to the "character" of the individual as the cause. We are social animals. Society has an enormous impact on us.

Also, as a skinny bitch myself, I want to say please stop kidding yourself. If you really believe that women who are skinny have to deal with even half of the shit that women who are overweight deal with then you need to walk into your closet and back to narnia because apparently thats where you grew up. I'm not saying its right to shame women for being skinny but you have to understand their point of view as well. They're confused and upset because they're being thought of as not good enough and undesirable for something that they feel is out of their control. 

The misinformation surrounding healthy diets, weight lifting, etc for women is absolutely astounding. And so, women who do try to lose weight lose it in extremely unhealthy ways, simultaneously losing energy, vitality, strength, and happiness. Naturally, when they lose weight in such unhealthy ways and with these consequences it won't stay off forever… Consequently, their weight is fluctuating all over the place, eating disorders crop up, issues with self-esteem and so on and so forth. Women that lose weight are unhealthy. Women that gain weight are unhealthy. Everyone's unhealthy. Its a god damn mess. Also, BMI doesn't mean shit! So for gods sake stop spreading the misinformation that women need to be in a particular bracket to be healthy. JUST NO. There are so many other factors that go into it, don't even get me started. You can use it as a sort of guide, but it is not the defining factor of health.

Honestly, you need to revaluate the things you're saying because they are WAY more detrimental to a woman's health (mental health is extremely important as well), than that video you posted. At the very least that video is helping young women of today that are not the "conventionally attractive size" feel better about themselves in a society that is no doubt barraging them with constant reminders that they are not attractive and should be ashamed of themselves. I mean really, try to show some understanding and compassion for the struggles the ladies around you are going through. Instead of posting long ass paragraphs about how women should stop being positive and supporting one another, and just lose the god damn weight already. Good lord.


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## with water (Aug 13, 2014)

TheProphetLaLa said:


> And if I a see a single person tell me that "men are admired for looking good too!!!!"….Just stop.


No, we're just valued for our utility as a security guard and provider. Muuuuch better.


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## TheProphetLaLa (Aug 18, 2014)

SimplisticFortitude said:


> No, we're just valued for our utility as a security guard and provider. Muuuuch better.


Why is this your automatic response to what I wrote? I really need to now how its possible for you to read that whole long ass post and this is what you respond with. I'm absolutely dumbfounded. This isn't a thread concerning men who are viewed as security guards or providers. If it was I would be addressing those issues, but its not. I'm speaking of this very real problem concerning woman, which apparently doesn't concern you in the slightest. Not that I'm surprised. Honestly if this is all you have to offer, don't even bother.


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## with water (Aug 13, 2014)

TheProphetLaLa said:


> Why is this your automatic response to what I wrote? I really need to now how its possible for you to read that whole long ass post and this is what you respond with. I'm absolutely dumbfounded. This isn't a thread concerning men who are viewed as security guards or providers. If it was I would be addressing those issues, but its not. I'm speaking of this very real problem concerning woman, which apparently doesn't concern you in the slightest. Not that I'm surprised. Honestly if this is all you have to offer, don't even bother.


Because you emphatically stated not to bring the attractiveness argument to you, as if there was no excuse for making that point. I saw a half informed statement, and it is my responsibility as your logical peer to show you the other side of the situation, fellow xNTJ. I wouldn't want to have you deeply rooting your arguments in fallacies. That's our way of showing we care after all, right? Holding each other logically accountable? ^^

Edit: Better to prioritize being correct over being right. As my friend, I don't want you to fall into that trap of having to defend a viewpoint just because it is your own. Prune off the dying branches.


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## TheProphetLaLa (Aug 18, 2014)

SimplisticFortitude said:


> Because you emphatically stated not to bring the attractiveness argument to you, as if there was no excuse for making that point. I saw a half informed statement, and it is my responsibility as your logical peer to show you the other side of the situation, fellow xNTJ. I wouldn't want to have you deeply rooting your arguments in fallacies. That's our way of showing we care after all, right? Holding each other logically accountable? ^^


In this discussion there isn't an excuse for using that argument…So where is the logical fallacy here? Hmmm them fallacies are tricky bastards!! You gotta watch out for them!!


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## with water (Aug 13, 2014)

TheProphetLaLa said:


> In this discussion there isn't excuse for using that argument…So where is the logical fallacy here? Hmmm them fallacies are tricky bastards!! You gotta watch out for them!!


"Don't argue this point" doesn't keep you from having to be logically accountable for the implications of your statements. I had to make the point that it is faulty to say that men aren't judged on looks as much and leave it at that, because there is a flip-side to that coin that has extreme relevance to the point you are making.


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## TheProphetLaLa (Aug 18, 2014)

SimplisticFortitude said:


> "Don't argue this point" doesn't keep you from having to be logically accountable for the implications of your statements. I had to make the point that it is faulty to say that men aren't judged on looks as much and leave it at that, because there is a flip-side to that coin that has extreme relevance to the point you are making.


Why does it have extreme relevance to the point I was making in a thread concerning a woman's body image and weight? Tell me why.


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## lawsfallmute (Oct 15, 2014)

TheProphetLaLa said:


> Also, as a skinny bitch myself, I want to say please stop kidding yourself. If you really believe that women who are skinny have to deal with even half of the shit that women who are overweight deal with then you need to walk into your closet and back to narnia because apparently thats where you grew up. I'm not saying its right to shame women for being skinny but you have to understand their point of view as well. They're confused and upset because they're being thought of as not good enough and undesirable for something that they feel is out of their control.


Could you please clarify this paragraph? It's a little convoluted. Where are you saying the power struggle lies?


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## TheProphetLaLa (Aug 18, 2014)

lawsfallmute said:


> Could you please clarify this paragraph? It's a little convoluted. Where are you saying the power struggle lies?


Could you clarify what you mean by power struggle?


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## lawsfallmute (Oct 15, 2014)

TheProphetLaLa said:


> Could you clarify what you mean by power struggle?


Thin vs. overweight women, thin women vs. society, overweight women vs. society, or another variable(s) I may be missing.

EDIT: _They're confused and upset because they're being thought of as not good enough and undesirable for something that they feel is out of their control._ 
Who is 'they' in this instance?


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

Tangled In Flowers said:


> I see it as a mix of "okay she's not as much of as a "threat" to us" and "she's not going to steal all the male attention" and "I can't tell her that she doesn't look as good as she used to. I wonder what happened."


Well, it depends on who said it--it was my mother in law who's very old fashioned. She also called me a "macka" which means "female cat" and is sort of like meaning "sexpot" to my understanding...or a double-edged comment about being attractive but also possibly slutty, before. IDK. 

It's just...I sometimes wonder why it's considered so normal to judge other people's appearances. It seems very entitled to me. I believe that beauty is subjective, and so yes we all have our own aesthetic sense, but projecting it onto everyone seems very entitled. Also--my body is none of your business (not you personally, but everyone). As I said, if you care about me and are concerned, then please tell me. If you accept your aesthetic appreciation is subjective and only reflects the opinion of one person, then feel free to compliment me...but other than that I do not need your approval to physically exist how I am.


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## StarFollowed (May 5, 2014)

meltedsorbet said:


> Well, it depends on who said it--it was my mother in law who's very old fashioned. She also called me a "macka" which means "female cat" and is sort of like meaning "sexpot" to my understanding...or a double-edged comment about being attractive but also possibly slutty, before. IDK.
> 
> It's just...I sometimes wonder why it's considered so normal to judge other people's appearances. It seems very entitled to me. I believe that beauty is subjective, and so yes we all have our own aesthetic sense, but projecting it onto everyone seems very entitled. Also--my body is none of your business (not you personally, but everyone). As I said, if you care about me and are concerned, then please tell me. If you accept your aesthetic appreciation is subjective and only reflects the opinion of one person, then feel free to compliment me...but other than that I do not need your approval to physically exist how I am.


I agree with what you are saying. My personal motive for creating this thread is to educate and encourage people to become the best they can be. That it doesn't have to as difficult. That we don't need all these body and confidence issues and how we shouldn't let food control us - it feels good to be in control of your own body. Nobody wants to feel powerless and trapped in their own body. No one deserves to not love what they see in the mirror - everyone deserves that much. I think we need to make sense toward positive changes.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

Tangled In Flowers said:


> I agree with what you are saying. My personal motive for creating this thread is to educate and encourage people to become the best they can be. That it doesn't have to as difficult. That we don't need all these body and confidence issues and how we shouldn't let food control us - it feels good to be in control of your own body. Nobody wants to feel powerless and trapped in their own body. No one deserves to not love what they see in the mirror - everyone deserves that much. I think we need to make sense toward positive changes.


I think so too, but I do think we need to be aware of fat shaming. Promethea had some good studies up that showed that fat shaming did not help people to make healthier choices for themselves. I think there are plenty of good examples of how shaming can do the opposite of what some defend it for--it hurts people and makes it more difficult to make healthy choices and feel empowered.

Personally, I see that aspect of our culture more as a scapegoat and also a side affect of having such a strong cosmetic industry, and living in a pretty materially focused culture...as well as the history of women being treated as objects and having less rights, being sexually shamed and also held to higher moral standards. So...I guess it doesn't seem simple, but I am firmly against shaming.


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## ai.tran.75 (Feb 26, 2014)

I believe body slamming is wrong all in general - regardless what size you are and to be frank . But I can only speak from a thin person pov - since I've been slam for being thin since HS (before then kids don't care much about images ). It's frustrating bc I can't really voice my opinion back - if somebody calls me "scrawny" or "bony " my only response can be " I know I need to gain more weight ", if a friend was to tell me. " I wish I could lose weight but I would die before I can be as skinny as you " all I can do is laugh - bc if I were to say anything else otherwise it'll be considered that I'm a "bitch" or "anorexic". When I go out to eat - if I were to eat too much - people assume that I'm bulimic if I don't have much of an appetite - comments like "girl it's ok to have some carb of sugar sometimes ! " if I were to show that I'm annoyed the assumption is that their statement must be true - so all I can do is laugh it off - sometimes I'll have to poke fun of my own image (which I'm actually happy with ) to make one feels better . I go into grocery store -see magazines with celebrity my size getting called "anorexic" I hear on radio and tv about how skinny is un- natural -models probably starved themselves to death . My son(who has never been sick ever ) is within the 12% weight and I get criticize left and right for not feeding him (regardless the fact that his pediatrician finds him healthy ) or worst it's my fault for being skinny that's my fault that he carries my genetic . But with all of this said - fat slamming is much worst than skinny slamming (although both can be hurtful ) at least with me being thin 166cm 48 kg 14-16% body fat - I know I'm fit and I'm comfortable with my size . As for people who are over weighted a lot already know that they're overweight and to be laugh or criticize upon it is even more absurd - I don't think a fat person ever body slam me- it's usually girls who looks pretty damn good but wanted to lose more weight ( for god knows what reason ) Most obese people know that they're obese - I agree that it's a health matter that can be dangerous - but in the end it's a person choice whether they want to do something about it or not and just bc a person enjoys eating doesn't mean that they're " lazy" or even " unattractive " looks is only skin deep . That's my opinion  regardless your size - your shape - how fit or non fit you are is not part of your character


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## DAPHNE XO (Jan 16, 2012)

Tangled In Flowers said:


> You think you are so clever, making a sarcastic combat.
> 
> *Nobody wants to take advice from anybody,* nobody provides empathy, and people who do are criticized if others don't agree with their attempt. *People don't appreciate anything and believe that the quickest, most "witty" sarcastic comment is the best way to get ahead because they are defenseless without it*. People are incapable of arguing with substance, so they attack instead.


I think the issue with your posts though, is that nobody asked for your advice, yet you still feel entitled to give it. And when people give you feedback on that advice, you get offended and become extremely defensive.

Providing empathy means being able to be emotionally aware of how your words will affect others. I have consistently argued within this thread that shaming people who already feel chronic shame is not going to help, it'll just feed into their pain even more. You have told me, in response to this, that I'm not listening to you and I'm not trying to actually help obese people reach healthier levels of weight. I don't think that's true, but you are entitled to your opinion.

I don't think anyone would be surprised by the fact I don't appreciate others being too forceful in their attempts to "help" others - most especially when that "help" is based on faulty information. In my opinion, such attempts are insincere and not actually about helping, instead it's about projecting shame on to whatever it is the person doing the projecting can't stand.

I also don't think sarcasm is the best way to "get ahead" either - I think flattery is - but I'm not sure why you are describing this thread in terms of a competition?

I'm not defenceless without sarcasm at all, and I've written this post to prove it to you. I can defend myself very well, but the means in which I do that varies at times depending on my emotional state and energy level.

Thank you, and godspeed.
:kitteh:

edit: Oh, and my opinion on fat acceptance is that it is a reactionary fringe movement being championed by women who are sick and tired of being shamed for their weight, something they already feel powerless over, therefore they've adopted the age old mentality: "if I can't do anything about it, and it makes me feel bad, I'll make everyone else accept it instead, _then _I can feel good."

^
This just goes to show you how much they already care about what everyone thinks of them, so shaming them is not going to work. They will literally fight for approval, because anything else means accepting they're just as "damaged" as everyone makes them out to be.


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

You need to broaden your perspective. Since the dawn of time, people's lives have been revolving around food. Thousands upon thousands of years of trying to get as much food as possible to survive and thrive. It's basically in our genes to seek food, eat it and also get pleasure from it. All animals do, we're no different, it's an evolutionary advantage to gain weight. So, after millions of years, we finally don't have to ever worry about food anymore (at least for now), but that cannot change our ingrained behavior of seeking as much of it as possible, it just can't change in mere 50 years compared to the life of our species. So, it's reasonable that we're facing the problem of obesity now; unlimited food and no need to move so much anymore, 1+1=2. 
My point is, obesity is not merely a personal problem but a public one, and it can only be solved as such. Sure, individuals can strive to lose weight, and they have been for the most part, since the diet industry is worth billions, but obesity is still rising despite that, so obviously it's not really working. 

As for the personal part, there have been a lot of studies pointing out that shaming people who want to lose weight has no result, or even makes them gain more weight. If people feel unvalued, unloved or judged, they enter a self-destructive vicious cycle of shame-overeating-shame, so of course if you add more shame to that, the cycle will just continue.

As for fat vs skinny shaming, the reality is that fat shaming has been around for a long, long time and was considered quite "normal" for a while (especially in the 90s). Basically all shows/movies that had a fat person in they made fun of him or considered him stupid, all children who were fat were made fun of/shamed in school, it's generally "okay" to shame a famous (i.e. politician, actor, etc) person for being fat, and other stuff like that. Many of these still continue today and in the media, but not as bad as before. Yes you get the "you need a sandwich" comments every now and then from specific people who either feel entitled they have to tell you to improve yourself, or feel insecure about themselves and project like you say, but it's not something that happens in everyday life, in media, or so.


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## StarFollowed (May 5, 2014)

DaphneDelRey said:


> I think the issue with your posts though, is that nobody asked for your advice, yet you still feel entitled to give it. And when people give you feedback on that advice, you get offended and become extremely defensive.
> 
> Providing empathy means being able to be emotionally aware of how your words will affect others. I have consistently argued within this thread that shaming people who already feel chronic shame is not going to help, it'll just feed into their pain even more. You have told me, in response to this, that I'm not listening to you and I'm not trying to actually help obese people reach healthier levels of weight. I don't think that's true, but you are entitled to your opinion.
> 
> ...


 I wasn't referring to you. 

This whole thread is basically advice. My post is advice based on observations, facts, and statistics, since the very first post. I'm not providing "faulty" information - the average american is a size 14 with 40% body fat. Am I fat shaming stating healthy body fat percentages and that we subconsciously seek partners who are healthier? Why are people so offended when someone states that having a high bf% and disfigurement and damage to the body is not as beautiful as someone who is of normal size?


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## DAPHNE XO (Jan 16, 2012)

Tangled In Flowers said:


> I wasn't referring to you.


You said something about people using sarcasm, and you made reference to my use of sarcasm earlier, so I assumed you were. My bad.



> This whole thread is basically advice. *My post is advice based on observations, facts, and statistics, since the very first post. *I'm not providing "faulty" information - the average american is a size 14 with 40% body fat. *Am I fat shaming stating healthy body fat percentages and that we subconsciously seek partners who are healthier?* Why are people so offended when someone states that having a high bf% and disfigurement and damage to the body is not as beautiful as someone who is of normal size?


A similar statement to that is: When Hitler decided he wanted to ethnically cleanse the Jews, he also used observations, facts, and statistics since the very first propaganda speech.

Basically, if you want to believe something hard enough, the mind will do whatever it takes to feed that belief. Doesn't make it right though, even if it's true.

Since this thread is mainly for the "benefit" of an audience who already suffer from health issues related to their size, yes, it's fat shaming. Again similarly - if I go to a meeting for people who are receiving welfare and tell them I'm there to "help" them by stating the latest economy report, that unemployment is down and people secretly desire partners who have a job, my main purpose by being there is not to help them or their situation, but to shame them.

I'm not offended by you having a personal opinion, but I am annoyed by your unrelenting need to "help" others, even when they haven't specifically asked for it.

But since I see carrying on with you is futile at this point, I'm just going to get off this ride and find another debate to be had.


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## Pyogenes (Feb 12, 2014)

DaphneDelRey said:


> Hitler


Godwin's law never fails!:crazy:


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## DAPHNE XO (Jan 16, 2012)

Pyogenes said:


> Godwin's law never fails!:crazy:


You're welcome. 

But to be fair though, the comparison fits - just because you back something up with facts, doesn't make it right, even if it's true. I'm not using it to end the debate, I'm using it as hyperbolic comparison :/


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## Pyogenes (Feb 12, 2014)

I wish I was a skilled standup comedian. I know there is a dark joke to be made here comparing concentration camp victims and skinny shaming.

I used to get called that before I started gaining muscle. Argh, why can't I put the bit together!:frustrating:


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## StarFollowed (May 5, 2014)

This is what the world has become:

Fit Mom Banned From Facebook for Fat-Shaming Is 'Sorry Not Sorry'

http://jezebel.com/heres-what-it-feels-like-to-be-a-fat-person-on-a-plane-1488750726


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## Stasis (May 6, 2014)

Tangled In Flowers said:


> This is what the world has become:
> 
> Fit Mom Banned From Facebook for Fat-Shaming Is 'Sorry Not Sorry'





> You read that correctly: If you are overweight or obese you should not have any pride. Pride — defined by Merriam-Webster as "a feeling that you respect yourself and deserve to be respected by other people" is not for you. If that is how your body works and looks YOU DO NOT DESERVE RESPECT.


This is disgusting.


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## StarFollowed (May 5, 2014)

EDLC said:


> This is disgusting.


Tell that to jezebel.


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## Euclid (Mar 20, 2014)

DaphneDelRey said:


> Since this thread is mainly for the "benefit" of an audience who already suffer from health issues related to their size, yes, it's fat shaming. Again similarly - if I go to a meeting for people who are receiving welfare and tell them I'm there to "help" them by stating the latest economy report, that unemployment is down and people secretly desire partners who have a job, my main purpose by being there is not to help them or their situation, but to shame them.


Non sequitur.
As far as I'm concerned fat shaming is shaming someone for being fat. Advising fat people to get healthy is not fat shaming, and such advise may also be preemptive.

It should also be noted that people who deliberately neglect their health lack self-respect and deserve to be shamed.


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## DAPHNE XO (Jan 16, 2012)

Euclid said:


> Non sequitur.
> As far as I'm concerned fat shaming is shaming someone for being fat. Advising fat people to get healthy is not fat shaming, and such advise may also be preemptive.
> *
> It should also be noted that people who deliberately neglect their health lack self-respect and deserve to be shamed*.


You get a prize for your outstanding and enlightening contribution to this thread.

I've already addressed all your points, so I don't need to again. I'd just be repeating myself ad nauseam.


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## stargazing grasshopper (Oct 25, 2013)

[No message]


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## 11thNight (Sep 2, 2012)

"Real women have curves" is it essentially denoting someone's personhood based on how they measure up to someone's aesthetic ideal.

Telling someone they need to gain weight or they're too skinny because you don't like they way they look is not okay. Addressing someone who you have legitimate reason to believe has an eating disorder is one thing--I'm not really sure how the best way to go about that would be, but I'm pretty sure telling them to eat a burger is not effective. Also, there are many people who are healthy and naturally very slim, so if you only know that someone is very slim, that's not grounds enough to assume they're anorexic/bulimic/whatever. Likewise, making someone feel bad because you find the fact that they're overweight unattractive is obviously not okay either, but I'm mainly addressing the prior point because that's what this thread brought up.

Another issue I wanted to address because I feel it's relevant to the thread is the stringent aesthetic ideals that are placed on women. Just look up articles about all the evolutionary psychology crap about women's attractiveness. Many people read these and take them as fact because of "science and stuff." But you can detect bias in what is studied and the interpretation of the data even if the data itself is correct. There is a massive amount of studies dedicated to what men find attractive in women with regards to every detail of their body.

Anyway, where I'm getting with this is that with regards to our bodies and our health, we shouldn't try to achieve some ideal ratio or fat percentage because it is most attractive to men. Health is more important than aesthetics, though aesthetic also matter to us. Most of us probably do want to be attractive to the opposite gender which is totally fine, but isn't feeling attractive to yourself even better? Honestly, if you take take care of yourself and like yourself you're probably going to be attractive to the opposite gender anyway.


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## StarFollowed (May 5, 2014)

stargazing grasshopper said:


> You're being sized up by a group of Femi-Nazis.


Speaking of Femi-Nazis:


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## TheProphetLaLa (Aug 18, 2014)

Euclid said:


> Non sequitur.
> As far as I'm concerned fat shaming is shaming someone for being fat. Advising fat people to get healthy is not fat shaming, and such advise may also be preemptive.
> 
> It should also be noted that people who deliberately neglect their health lack self-respect and deserve to be shamed.


So basically, you're saying fat people are unhealthy, and so they deserve to be shamed because they lack self respect. And why is it that they lack self-respect? Do you even know what self-respect is?


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## MisterD (Feb 24, 2010)

OP doesn't have curves


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## Shahada (Apr 26, 2010)

Euclid said:


> It should also be noted that people who deliberately neglect their health lack self-respect and deserve to be shamed.


How do you define "deliberately neglect their health?" Someone lacks self respect and deserves to be shamed for drinking a soda every now and then? That's stupid. People make unhealthy decisions all the time, when people look at an overweight person and decide they're more deserving of shame than a skinny person who drinks 10 Cokes a day they're not making that decision based on a careful evaluation of the overweight person's lifestyle. Being overweight isn't really something I think should be "encouraged" but acting like you smugly wagging your finger at them with "advice" like this is for their own good rather than your own sense of self-worth doesn't help the situation.


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## MisterD (Feb 24, 2010)

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&...yCkwAA&usg=AFQjCNGjg1TBa553czteiUBmTxDjxeWa6A


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## StarFollowed (May 5, 2014)

11thNight said:


> "Real women have curves" is it essentially denoting someone's personhood based on how they measure up to someone's aesthetic ideal.
> 
> Telling someone they need to gain weight or they're too skinny because you don't like they way they look is not okay. Addressing someone who you have legitimate reason to believe has an eating disorder is one thing--I'm not really sure how the best way to go about that would be, but I'm pretty sure telling them to eat a burger is not effective. Also, there are many people who are healthy and naturally very slim, so if you only know that someone is very slim, that's not grounds enough to assume they're anorexic/bulimic/whatever. Likewise, making someone feel bad because you find the fact that they're overweight unattractive is obviously not okay either, but I'm mainly addressing the prior point because that's what this thread brought up.
> 
> ...


I'm not bashing skinny people. True skin-and-bones are on the runway. Not the point I was making. Bikini models have curves. They are considered "skinny" by other woman.

But I agree with what you said about everything else.


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## 11thNight (Sep 2, 2012)

Tangled In Flowers said:


> I'm not bashing skinny people. True skin-and-bones are on the runway. Not the point I was making. Bikini models have curves. They are considered "skinny" by other woman.
> 
> But I agree with what you said about everything else.


I never got the impression you were bashing skinny people.


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## StarFollowed (May 5, 2014)

11thNight said:


> Telling someone they need to gain weight or they're too skinny because you don't like they way they look is not okay.



I thought that you thought I was bashing skinny people based on my original post. Guess not. Never mind. My bad.


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## MisterD (Feb 24, 2010)

All the fat pride is delusional. Stop being lazy. Eat healthy, exercise. It's amusing that people will believe in something false just to make themselves feel better & if enough people believe in the same thing, then it's okay.

Never will I accept, it's okay to be fat. Idc if someone is fat, but they should be striving & working not to be.

Can anyone honestly & truthfully say... Being fat & unfit is so much better tham being skinny, fit & healthy? 

Perhaps it doesn't apply if you're a Sumo getting paid.


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## TheProphetLaLa (Aug 18, 2014)

MisterD said:


> https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=prpGVNDvOeS0mAWcDQ&url=http://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3Dfee9zb-YCTA&ved=0CB4QyCkwAA&usg=AFQjCNGjg1TBa553czteiUBmTxDjxeWa6A


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## lawsfallmute (Oct 15, 2014)

> I feel completely misunderstood. While I speak strongly about making one's health a priority, the very last thing I intended to express was any level of shame. No one should be ashamed of who they are, at the same time, in order to desire something greater, you have to –at some level – be uncomfortable with where you are at. *When we normalize being unhealthy we create complacency to positively change.*


Ding ding ding! I never once understood the drama surrounding this woman and her comments. The bias in that article was painfully strong - it was obviously written by an overweight woman, self-defensive of her form.

As a woman who used to be overweight myself, I can empathize (note: NOT sympathize) with her reaction when another beautiful, slim woman who is much more comfortable in her body makes objective claims about health/nutrition. But unfortunately, it is a reaction purely fueled by emotion; a hostile, pitiful attempt at asserting dominance by skewing comments and making strong claims.

Maria Kang is not saying that overweight/obese women do not deserve any respect, or that they shouldn't have pride in themselves. She is saying to not be proud of the unhealthy habits that have ultimately led to them being overweight/obese. The fact that the OW/OB women they featured in the article modelling lingerie are considered 'averaged sized women' is a testament to this complacency.


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## stargazing grasshopper (Oct 25, 2013)

[No message]


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## stargazing grasshopper (Oct 25, 2013)

Tangled In Flowers said:


> Speaking of Femi-Nazis:


I support neither feminism nor MRAs, both opposites sides of the same hateful coin.


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## DAPHNE XO (Jan 16, 2012)

^
Droppin' wisdom bombs on us all! I feel enlightened.

I have seen the light, once I was blind, but now I see.


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## lawsfallmute (Oct 15, 2014)

MisterD said:


> All the fat pride is delusional. Stop being lazy. Eat healthy, exercise. It's amusing that people will believe in something false just to make themselves feel better & if enough people believe in the same thing, then it's okay.


It really is that simple. But I'm beginning to learn that, via my personality type, just because we (*NTJs) have a greater ability to divorce ourselves from the emotional aspect of this 'fat shaming' or 'fat accepting' debate, doesn't mean everyone else can.

This is not a judgement on anybody or any type by the way. If it comes across that way, I apologize. These are merely my observations. 

I'm also starting to believe I'm much more ENTJ than INTJ...


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## stargazing grasshopper (Oct 25, 2013)

TheProphetLaLa said:


> So basically, you're saying fat people are unhealthy, and so they deserve to be shamed because they lack self respect. And why is it that they lack self-respect? Do you even know what self-respect is?


Nobody is attempting to shame you into adopting a more healthy lifestyle. More power to you if you're content with being obese, but don't whine that you're unable to attract the type of life partner you prefer & take your rage out on healthy individuals that want nothing to do with you.


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## TheProphetLaLa (Aug 18, 2014)

stargazing grasshopper said:


> Nobody is attempting to shame you into adopting a more healthy lifestyle. More power to you if you're content with being obese, but don't whine that you're unable to attract the type of life partner you prefer & take your rage out on healthy individuals that want nothing to do with you.


Shame me into adopting a more healthy lifestyle? Who said I was obese? Who said I was unhealthy? You're assuming quite a bit here. And either way your posts are only inflammatory and provide no useful contribution to this discussion. You're clearly just trying to get a rise out of people. Honestly, grow up. Obesity and health in general is a significant problem, and pointing fingers at the wrong thing is going to get us nowhere. It should be looked at honestly. The problem of obesity has nothing to do with the character of the individual who is obese. This is a societal problem. It needs to be looked at on a larger scale.


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## DAPHNE XO (Jan 16, 2012)

stargazing grasshopper said:


> Nobody is attempting to shame you into adopting a more healthy lifestyle. More power to you if you're content with being obese, but *don't whine that you're unable to attract the type of life partner you prefer & take your rage out on healthy individuals that want nothing to do with you.*


Your lack of self-awareness literally astounds me.


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## stargazing grasshopper (Oct 25, 2013)

[No message]


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## DAPHNE XO (Jan 16, 2012)

stargazing grasshopper said:


> Femi-Nazi alert. You're blinded by hatred.


If hating sexism and racism makes me a femi-nazi, I plead guilty your honour. I will bear that name not in shame, but in pride


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## lawsfallmute (Oct 15, 2014)

TheProphetLaLa said:


> The problem of obesity has nothing to do with the character of the individual who is obese. This is a societal problem. It needs to be looked at on a larger scale.


It is ignorant to assume that the owner of the temple is at no way at fault to the disorder of the temple.


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## DAPHNE XO (Jan 16, 2012)

lawsfallmute said:


> It is ignorant to assume that the owner of the temple is at no way at fault to the disorder of the temple.


Because that's how addictions work.

And poor nutrition that is served to those mostly in lower socioeconomic classes, as they are least likely to be able to afford healthier food choices... I mean, they're not even allowed a minimum wage to live on... so it's also their fault that the cheapest food would also undoubtedly be the unhealthiest.


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## TheProphetLaLa (Aug 18, 2014)

lawsfallmute said:


> It is ignorant to assume that the owner of the temple is at no way at fault to the disorder of the temple.


I appreciate you taking part in this discussion honestly, but I need you to not make metaphors that have nothing to do with this discussion and tell me what you believe to be the problem here and how it can be fixed. Do you believe the character of the individual to be the main cause of obesity? Is this what you're telling me. If it is, tell me why you believe that to be the case. If its not tell me what you believe to be the main cause.


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## TheProphetLaLa (Aug 18, 2014)

SimplisticFortitude said:


> It being off topic doesn't mean you didn't posit bad info. It had to be addressed.


How was it bad info? It wasn't bad info at all, it was quite accurate. You're grasping at straws here.


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## stargazing grasshopper (Oct 25, 2013)

[No message]


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## stargazing grasshopper (Oct 25, 2013)

[No message]


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## DAPHNE XO (Jan 16, 2012)

stargazing grasshopper said:


> lsewhere I'd attempted to offer you encouragement & lift your spirits, but you stated that you're alone because you're unattractive & not very feminine. Have you considered whether your self image is likely what fuels much of your rage towards men & steps that you could take to improve your outlook?


There's something really...... just a bit........ about you.
I don't hate men at all. Lol. And I don't feel alone and I said I'm not your average 'feminine' lady because I play a lot of sports. How you've managed to make up this weird story is really................[fill in the blanks everyone].


stargazing grasshopper said:


> Spreading your hateful disdain for men is what makes you a Femi-Nazi.


What? Are? You? On? About?
I love men. Like, reallllly love them.


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## MisterD (Feb 24, 2010)

DaphneDelRey said:


> There's something really...... just a bit........ about you.
> I don't hate men at all. Lol. And I don't feel alone and I said I'm not your average 'feminine' lady because I play a lot of sports. How you've managed to make up this weird story is really................[fill in the blanks everyone].
> 
> What? Are? You? On? About?
> I love men. Like, reallllly love them.


I always knew that you loved me...


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## koalaroo (Nov 25, 2011)

@_stargazing grasshopper_

I'm actually not obese, so I don't know why you need to be so rude? I have an overweight BMI but that's not the same as being obese. And yes, I'm on medications for my cyclothymia, but the meds I'm on don't contribute to weight gain.


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## stargazing grasshopper (Oct 25, 2013)

[No message]


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## lawsfallmute (Oct 15, 2014)

TheProphetLaLa said:


> I appreciate you taking part in this discussion honestly, but I need you to not make metaphors that have nothing to do with this discussion and tell me what you believe to be the problem here and how it can be fixed. Do you believe the character of the individual to be the main cause of obesity? Is this what you're telling me. If it is, tell me why you believe that to be the case. If its not tell me what you believe to be the main cause.


I am not a statistician, a nutritionist, nor a cultural anthropologist. I don't know the main cause of obesity. The logical deduction would be 'calories in, calories out', but I know it is much more complicated than that. All I was trying to say with my (poor) analogy is that you can't discount the overweight person from the issue of them being overweight. I don't know if you've ever been overweight yourself, but from my own experience, changing my eating habits (even ever so slightly) and exercising regularly made a world of difference.


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## stargazing grasshopper (Oct 25, 2013)

koalaroo said:


> @_stargazing grasshopper_
> 
> I'm actually not obese, so I don't know why you need to be so rude?


You wrote that you're overweight at another thread a while back. More recently you wrote that you're at least 20lbs overweight.
Isn't that cause to believe what you wrote & assume that 20+lbs would categorize you as obese?

Hey I'm attempting to encourage you acceptance of yourself as you are rather than driving yourself nuts struggling between obesity & mental health. If you don't want me to offer advice, tell me to STFU & I'll not write another word to you.


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## Mr. Meepers (May 31, 2012)

Although I do have a few posts I like more than others, I do feel as though there may be some talking through each other and some name calling YAAAAYYYY, I mean Boooo!

Okay, so that everyone, or at least most of us, feel heard, what do most of us seem to agree on (although I think there may be a few who don't): 
- We should not berate men or women for the shape of their bodies (I think most of everyone agrees with that)
- Someone does not have to be attracted to people of all body sizes (I think most of us are okay with that)
- We should have a society that encourages health (I think we all are on board with that)

What we disagree on: 
- How we should treat and judge people who are overweight and/or obese
----- 1) One side says with encouragement and understanding that their bodies are not our business and that we should look at other things, such as food sources or availability to exercise instead of singling out fat people and making assumptions about them
----- 2) The other side seems to be saying that people need to take personal responsibility for themselves ad their own health and it is the duty of all of us to make sure they are personally held accountable
----- 1) One side says that weight loss can be a complex physical and mental issue for many people and that they need to love themselves before they can take action to "take care" of themselves, but that that is also their decision to make and not ours
----- 2) People are over weight and lazy and we should hold them to higher standards or something like that.
----- 1) That the other side is simplifying a complex issue and judging others over something that is not their business and keep the focus of valuing woman mainly on their bodies instead of getting away from our body glorification




I know I missed a lot, but I hope that summarizes a lot of the arguements and I hope that shows at least some common ground (instead of people objecting to things that are agreed upon)


* *





And now, since this thread lacked sex or romantic relationships, I thought we could us a Christian message.

Give me you tired, your hungry, your poor,
Your fat shamers and anti-fat shamers,
Your feminists and anti-feminists,
Your people of all body sizes,
Because I want an orgy,
That is right, Meepers is a whore!

Okay, that may not be Christian, but it sure is a very meepy message and I am surprised this thread is still going strong, so I figured I would give it some more love <3


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## koalaroo (Nov 25, 2011)

stargazing grasshopper said:


> You wrote that you're overweight at another thread a while back. More recently you wrote that you're at least 20lbs overweight.
> Isn't that cause to believe what you wrote & assume that 20+lbs would categorize you as obese?
> 
> Hey I'm attempting to encourage you acceptance of yourself as you are rather than driving yourself nuts struggling between obesity & mental health. If you don't want me to offer advice, tell me to STFU & I'll not write another word to you.


I'm 5'11". 20 lbs overweight leaves me firmly in the "overweight" category on the BMI, with a body fat percentage that fluctuates between 30-32%. So sometimes I'm average and sometimes I'm obese via body fat %. I don't seem to lose weight when I work out, but the body fat % comes off and so do the inches. Mostly, I'd like to see the scale move down. And, I don't believe for an instant that you have my best interest in mind, so cut the crap.


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## stargazing grasshopper (Oct 25, 2013)

[No message]


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## Donovan (Nov 3, 2009)

i wouldn't go by BMI's, since it's assuming certain proportions, almost as if each person will have a size 11 shoe and with feet the exact same shape--it's looking at reality in a way that isn't necessarily accurate for the individual. 


my brother was 25 lbs overweight according to his bmi when he tried to join the military, and so had to shed some before they'd take him (and he had a six pack/was very lean). while in high school, i was about 20 lbs over mine (lean as well), but it didn't hinder me whatsoever. in fact, not taking care of myself and losing weight--which puts me into the correct side of my bmi--is what hinders me... 


so, take all of these things with a grain of salt. they aren't meant to be anything other than a glance at very diluted information that can potentially cause a doctor to go, "wth! lets check on [this] or [that]". outside of this range, physiological individuality is paramount.


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## DAPHNE XO (Jan 16, 2012)

stargazing grasshopper said:


> I don't read every comment of yours, but I can't recall a positive comment you've written in regards to men. However I've seen plenty of negative comments from you & I've the impression that you're primarily here to vent your rage upon others.
> 
> I'll go back to the ENFP thread & review the comment that I remember you writing. Maybe I confused you with another or misinterpreted the intent of that comment, but I remember you writing that you've a fat ass & not very feminine. Is that not what you wrote?


What the hell is literally going on here right now. What the actual fuck? Oh my god.
Looool!

I think you're really reading into my posts way too much. And I can assure you, I do like men and have a lot of men in my life (and on this forum) that I admire, even if I don't get the opportunity on here to brag about them - though I have to be honest in other parts of the forum.

While I appreciate your concern for my physical attributes, I think you've put a bit too much thought into them, and I think you've come up with an image about me, and how I feel about them, that isn't true.

Please stop commenting on my body like that, I know you think you're helping, but I don't find it helpful. It's really objectifying and makes me incredibly uncomfortable.

Thank you.


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## Donovan (Nov 3, 2009)

i'm a "man", and she's written positive comments about me. she's actually a devil's advocate when it comes to race and gender issues, and usually on the side that you wouldn't expect (or i assume you wouldn't have, going by this post). 

and there's nothing wrong with a "fat ass", in any way, shape, or form.... mmmhhhmmm, nope.


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## koalaroo (Nov 25, 2011)

Donovan said:


> i'm a "man", and she's written positive comments about me. she's actually a devil's advocate when it comes to race and gender issues, and usually on the side that you wouldn't expect (or i assume you wouldn't have, going by this post).
> 
> and there's nothing wrong with a "fat ass", in any way, shape, or form.... mmmhhhmmm, nope.


I agree. I've watched her play devil's advocate in a lot of the feminism threads. She doesn't seem to hate men at all.


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## MisterD (Feb 24, 2010)

At the end of the day, nobody chooses the body they are born with & have been given. 

Man or woman, whether you are overweight or not is the concern. The concern is whether you believe in the delusional belief of "being overweight is fine & I should have pride in it." If you are able to go about your daily life being overweight & are content with it then good for you.

What's important is that you are striving to better yourself, your body & your health to your own standards. I just hope you are not easily satisfied.


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