# If you can type me, you are a GENIUS



## Kate7

Hello - my name is Kate and I have consistently proved impossible to type. But I must be hiding in there somewhere, right? If anyone can find me I will ... umm, well, be forever in your debt or else I'm sure I can find SOME way of saying thank you! Will provide honest and complete answers to questions to all who would like to take up on this challenge. Thanks!


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## Mr. CafeBot

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## Vaka

Welcome to the forum!

If you were going to be sent away to a camp where all your basic human necessities would be taken care of and could only take five items to pass the time with, which items would you take with you?


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## JJMTBC

Welcome! I would suggest looking more into the cognitive functions, because that is the source of typing regardless of individual personality traits! I just googled the type(s) people guessed me to be, and then figured it out that way by reading various descriptions and learning more about the associated cognitive processes. I'm kind of a border-type myself. 
Best of luck!:happy:


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## Jojo

Welcome- for the genius answer...... ME.... LOL


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## Kate7

A computer with internet access and Word would be plenty. But if I had to pick five, I'd choose a good long information book either the history of the world and/or the history of philosophy or politics or something meaty like that. Really that's all I'd need to pass the time, presuming I could get up and go for a walk and think, get some fresh air every once in a while. If I HAVE to choose another four things they would be two other books but light relief ones - one would be a mystery - so i could have the satisfaction of seeing something completely solved. The other one would be a really good people story where there are trials to overcome and lots of amazing locations in the mountains etc ... oh and a really great ending. The last thing would probably be, god i'm so dull, a notebook so I can write down all the thoughts I have while away and reading lots.


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## Kate7

Great Jojo!! read my reply to the other 'pervy mood' guy and see if that helps. Any more questions gladly answered, thanks!


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## Skitzabeth

ISTP!

Haha, I don't know. You just sound a lot like a friend I have who is that type.


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## Kate7

Gosh thanks Skitzabeth (cool name!) Istp is one type I have NEVER come up as, interestingly. Will consider it, though is doubtful I think as they are apparently good with mechanics, technical stuff, and I am not. One thing I think with all this is that it is hard being a GIRL and typing yourself as I don't think sex differences - including the vastly differing experiences of life that males and females have - are taken into account much. Typically, all the T's are described with a male outlook, interests and social style, and all the F's with the female ditto. What do others of you think about this? (Not to detract from the really ESSENTIAL problem of helping me find my type of course ... !)


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## Kate7

Thanks JJMTBC. Have scoured the cognitive processes many times. Still can't figure it. I can't seem to observe myself effectively enough to decifer between what I do naturally, and what is learnt! I see bits of everything in myself adn some of the explanations I just don't understand at all (like Ni and Si). I suppose mostly I like figuring things out .. is that Ti or Te?? But then I also like to be nice to people, which is Fe, and can be quite sensitive to criticism, which I think is Fi!! See how hard it is. Ridiculous, i know.


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## Skitzabeth

Kate7 said:


> Gosh thanks Skitzabeth (cool name!) Istp is one type I have NEVER come up as, interestingly. Will consider it, though is doubtful I think as they are apparently good with mechanics, technical stuff, and I am not. One thing I think with all this is that it is hard being a GIRL and typing yourself as I don't think sex differences - including the vastly differing experiences of life that males and females have - are taken into account much. Typically, all the T's are described with a male outlook, interests and social style, and all the F's with the female ditto. What do others of you think about this? (Not to detract from the really ESSENTIAL problem of helping me find my type of course ... !)



I _definitely_ think it's harder to type yourself when you're a female, especially if you're not an F. I am definitely an INTP. But it took me a while to come to the conclusion that I was a T. I think too many people try to turn the types into little boxes that you have to fit in. Like, "Oh, you HAVE emotions? You MUST not be a T!" That annoys me. 

Also, the reason I said ISTP is just because, 1) You don't seem to be put off by the idea of being on an island by yourself with just books, 2) You talked about reading history and philosophy and needing to write down all of your thoughts, 3) You didn't really seem to give much thought to basic material necessities. But, actually. I'm changing my guess to INTP or INFP. I take back the S thing.


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## Skitzabeth

Kate7 said:


> I can't seem to observe myself effectively enough to decifer between what I do naturally, and what is learnt! I see bits of everything in myself and some of the explanations I just don't understand at all (like Ni and Si). I suppose mostly I like figuring things out .. is that Ti or Te?? But then I also like to be nice to people, which is Fe, and can be quite sensitive to criticism, which I think is Fi!! See how hard it is. Ridiculous, i know.


Yeah, that seems very INTP/INFP to me.


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## Kate7

Thanks! That's really helpful. Why so sure I'm an I??? Are all people who like books and their own thoughts necessarily introverts? I am excited that you are intp as I have wondered whether I am many times ... it fits me so well in many ways except that I am people oriented - they are what I am interested in both as individuals and society. i have wondered if this is where my female orientation comes in? What do you think? Also, I have wondered about the p thing as i like things to be settled in my outer world - settled, organised, simplified - so I can concentrate on my projects (writing, researching etc ... inner world stuff) but that makes me come across and act quite j ish with people and stuff. Confusing. intj's just seem so much more cold, and agressive, than I am though?? As for infp, well they are so soft and sweet, I am sweet but not as soft as all that really. And infj's are REALLY hard to know, shy. I am more confident. What say you? (I appreciate all this attention by the way - thanks!!)


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## Paradox of Vigor

Well if you don't know what you are then that means you're probably not a Rational. And there's no WAY you're an NTJ.

Fact: You know you're an NT, when you know your an NT.

This problem you have makes it obvious that four of the sixteen types are NOT you. It would seem that most NFs would know what they were too, so it is unlikely you are that as well. But most people interested in typology are NFs and NTs which automatically makes you less likely to be an SJ or SP. 

Even so you're more likely one of the the sensory types. I've come to find that most people that have trouble identifying themselves are SJs and SPs.

Hope that narrows it down for you.


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## Kate7

my you are aggressive today :happy: Thanks though, interesting thoughts, not sure where you get them from though? I know many nf's who struggle with who they are. You only have to take a look at this site for proof of that. Anybody else feel like commenting here? What do you think of Garet's comments? I would have said almost the opposite. Most SJ's and SP's have no problem identifying themselves and are easily satisfied with the result to boot. More information needed here please Garet - why are NT's always utterly sure of who they are? And have you considered the FEMALE aspect here? I've commented on that elsewhere in this discussion - find, read, tell me what you think.


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## Skitzabeth

Kate7 said:


> Thanks! That's really helpful. Why so sure I'm an I??? Are all people who like books and their own thoughts necessarily introverts? I am excited that you are intp as I have wondered whether I am many times ... it fits me so well in many ways except that I am people oriented - they are what I am interested in both as individuals and society. i have wondered if this is where my female orientation comes in? What do you think? Also, I have wondered about the p thing as i like things to be settled in my outer world - settled, organised, simplified - so I can concentrate on my projects (writing, researching etc ... inner world stuff) but that makes me come across and act quite j ish with people and stuff. Confusing. intj's just seem so much more cold, and agressive, than I am though?? As for infp, well they are so soft and sweet, I am sweet but not as soft as all that really. And infj's are REALLY hard to know, shy. I am more confident. What say you? (I appreciate all this attention by the way - thanks!!)


The main thing that helped me determine whether or not I was an Introvert was when someone finally phrased the question in such a way that said "Are you energized or drained by being around a large group of strangers?" It's not that Introverts are anti-social, really. I enjoy being around my friends. But I tend to have a close group of few friends, and after being around large groups of people, I have to go home and recharge. But I am still interested in people. I'm not sure, I think it is true that Females tend to have an instinctual nurturing nature, so maybe that can account for your sweet and people-oriented ways. :wink: 

As for the P thing, I will quote my roommate (she's an INFP): "What does P stand for again? Procrastinator?"
Haha, I still love the fact that she said that. I'm a P, and I like things to be organized, too, but often organization gets thrown to the wind when I find something more important to do. It is possible that you are a J. I just guessed P because the way you described the desert island scenario seemed very laid-back and... just P-ish. Also the fact that you seem very indecisive about your type makes me want to say you are a P. But of course, I shouldn't expect to be able to guess your type by reading a few paragraphs.

I'm still in the INTP/INFP court. INFJ seems like a good fit, too, though. I know a few INFJ's, they are my favorites. 




Garet said:


> Well if you don't know what you are then that means you're probably not a Rational. And there's no WAY you're an NTJ.
> 
> Fact: You know you're an NT, when you know your an NT.
> 
> This problem you have makes it obvious that four of the sixteen types are NOT you. It would seem that most NFs would know what they were too, so it is unlikely you are that as well. But most people interested in typology are NFs and NTs which automatically makes you less likely to be an SJ or SP.
> 
> Even so you're more likely one of the the sensory types. I've come to find that most people that have trouble identifying themselves are SJs and SPs.
> 
> Hope that narrows it down for you.


I disagree. I'm an INTP and it took me a while to get to that conclusion, if only because I have the need to completely analyze every possibility before I make a decision. I think the most obvious thing is that she is NOT an S, because in my experience, and S would never spend so much time and/or energy trying to figure out what typ they were. Just my two cents, though. :happy:


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## Kate7

Thanks Skitzabeth, this is really helpful.. I am not so much drained by being around a large group of strangers, but I don't tend to choose or initiate a great deal of social interaction. I would be more drained by being forced to concentrate on people's physical needs for any length of time, am also seriously drained by interruptions. 

I am leaning towards the infj at the moment as I am not really a procrastinator. I hate work but I tend to get it out of the way, then I can relax. Please would you just describe your infj friends briefly to me as the ones i know don't seem much like me ... how do they come across?


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## Skitzabeth

Kate7 said:


> ...am also seriously drained by interruptions. ... I hate work but I tend to get it out of the way, then I can relax.


Yes, those are definite J traits, I think... INFJ is believable to me.


My INFJ friends are lovely people. :happy:

I don't know how much of this is just them, and how much of this is their INFJ-ness, but...

They are both girls. I really enjoy them because they are very good at listening to me ramble on and on as I try to sort out my thoughts, and they can really get in and try to help me understand my problems, and they really seem to care about me. They are kind of quiet. They dress very simply and neatly, but always look very put together. Same with makeup, not a lot of it, but just a simple, clean look that says that they care about their appearance, but they don't overdo it. They are very organized. They are very dependable. They are both really creative. Come to think of it, they both seem to enjoy the same kinds of music, but that probably doesn't have a lot to do with being INFJ. They are very intelligent and do very well in school/work. I basically am very envious of them. They are both just such nice, genuine, intelligent, creative people. They always make me feel loved and appreciated and important. I love them. :happy:


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## kibou

I definitely think you're an NF, just not an INFP. I'm leaning toward NFJ, and it's very possible you're a INFJ, INFJs can often look like E's because of the secondary Fe. Your response to Garet was very Fe to me, and Ni can make you confident, even stubborn, though not always obvious to others.


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## Kate7

Oh shit. I was so hoping this would be it. This always happens you see, which is why, as I said, you have to be a GENIUS to type me. Sorry, I am sure you are going to get bored soon. The thing is I am not at all infj ish. I am not 'kind of quiet' and certainly not neat. I dress simply but scruffy more. I'm not sure I look 'put together', more like slightly coming apart. Also, I find I am more often the one rambling on trying to sort out my own thoughts than the one patiently listening. Skitzabeth, you described your infj friends just right - they are just like the infj's I know too. Just not like me.

The thing is, I like people and have fun with people on an aquaintance level but don't seem to fit the social mould in a daily, general sense. I don't need people interaction to be energised, though I do get energised and stimulated by discussions on interesting subjects, getting to the bottom of things - also scientific discoveries, possibilities, figuring things out. I love to have revelations, put things together, you know??! But I am sensitive to people too. I avoid personal confrontations, prefer to keep things on the intellectual level I guess. Though people often don't think of me as intellectual, I can even come across as ditsy, air head. I am absent minded and even slightly awkward/nervous whilst at the same time being engaged and interested. Am I confusing you all? I am certainly confusing me ...


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## Skitzabeth

Kate7 said:


> The thing is, I like people and have fun with people on an aquaintance level but don't seem to fit the social mould in a daily, general sense. I don't need people interaction to be energised, though I do get energised and stimulated by discussions on interesting subjects, getting to the bottom of things - also scientific discoveries, possibilities, figuring things out. I love to have revelations, put things together, you know??! But I am sensitive to people too. I avoid personal confrontations, prefer to keep things on the intellectual level I guess. Though people often don't think of me as intellectual, I can even come across as ditsy, air head. I am absent minded and even slightly awkward/nervous whilst at the same time being engaged and interested. Am I confusing you? I am certainly confusing me ...


That sounds A LOT like my INFP roommate.

Remember not to get TOO bogged down in every single detail of how a person of a certain type is. Just because they are a type doesn't mean everyone of that type is exactly the same, especially depending on how strong their preferences are one way or the other.


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## kibou

Scruffy, not neat = more like N
"not kind of quiet" - you could be an I or E type, for example my friend who is an INFJ looks more extroverted than me because she uses Fe to interact with people. 

You sound a lot like an INFJ to me. Have you read the descriptions of introverted intuition versus extroverted intuition as cognitive functions?


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## Kate7

I definitely think you're an NF, just not an INFP. I'm leaning toward NFJ, and it's very possible you're a INFJ, INFJs can often look like E's because of the secondary Fe. Your response to Garet was very Fe to me, and Ni can make you confident, even stubborn, though not always obvious to others. 

thanks kibou. why do you think i am infj not enfj?


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## Kate7

yes, i have introverted intuition I am pretty sure now. But haven't both enfj's and infj's got that?


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## Kate7

Yes, you're right. I am looking for this perfect fit thing but it just won't happen. I am more like the infp descriptions on personality page etc. except that I am not all that quiet and can be very organised and structured with things I want to get done and out of the way. I enjoy organising things actually, just in theory really though, I'm actually quite lazy when it comes to putting this into practice!


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## kibou

Well, when I was responding I said I think you are an NFJ, for the possibility of being INFJ I was going off of your own interest in that type in particular.

With the small amount of information you have given here verbally, I think you're more likely to be INFJ though, because you sound like you use Ti more than Se. ENFJs are more physically aware of their environment (tertiary Se). Also INFJs are more likely to enjoy the sciences (Ti tertiary, Ni dominant), without being offended by the hard logic. And just in general, you sound a bit more like Ni->Fe rather than Fe->Ni.


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## skycloud86

*Welcome to the forum* :happy:


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## Kate7

thank you very much! I know enfjs and they are very acheiving types, they put themselves out there. I don't do that. i achieve behind the scenes with determination (hopefully, eventually!).

with everyone's help it seems I am between infp and infj ... anyone got a defining question that will finish that one off?


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## Kate7

Thank you :happy: you sound cool skycloud - 'poet, writer, family historian, day dreamer' 
can you help with my quest?


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## skycloud86

Kate7 said:


> Thank you :happy: you sound cool skycloud - 'poet, writer, family historian, day dreamer'
> can you help with my quest?


Looking at this thread, I would agree with INFJ.


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## Kate7

Okay all you guys who have helped me. You are great, but no-one is GENIUS yet, cos I am still stuck.

I have spent hours now looking at the INFJ site and there are quite a few things wrong with this fit.
1. I don't mind people's attention on me, though it often isnt', which suits me fine too. frankly though, I am usually quite grateful for anyone taking an interest in me
2. I don't like fantasy, never have. Having said that, I was obsessed with the Narnia books when I was a kid. is that fantasy? I tend to think that fantasy like that is just reality dressed up, so I think of it as reality. But I don't like the futuristic kind of fantasy stuff - dune and do androids dream of electric sheep etc etc. I would rather read someone's life story than that.
3. They all sound afraid and withdrawn ... I am not. I am careful, relationally, but I am not withdrawn.


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## kibou

With those points you could still definitely be INFJ. You might be looking for a level of description in an MBTI profile that couldn't account for all the different places in life INFJs are in. I thinek because of the different places in life one type might be in, MBTI profile descriptions vary from one another, and get more specific when talking about certain situations (like time of stress or learning to use weaker functions).


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## Skitzabeth

Kate7 said:


> 1. I don't mind people's attention on me, though it often isnt', which suits me fine too. frankly though, I am usually quite grateful for anyone taking an interest in me
> 2. I don't like fantasy, never have. Having said that, I was obsessed with the Narnia books when I was a kid. is that fantasy? I tend to think that fantasy like that is just reality dressed up, so I think of it as reality. But I don't like the futuristic kind of fantasy stuff - dune and do androids dream of electric sheep etc etc. I would rather read someone's life story than that.
> 3. They all sound afraid and withdrawn ... I am not. I am careful, relationally, but I am not withdrawn.


I agree with kibou. You have to remember that everyone is an individual, and the descriptions can really only be an overview. Also some of your preferences might be more balanced or extreme than the typical, middle-of-the-road person of your type.

Also, I'm an Introvert, and I also feel grateful when someone takes an interest in me. And I'm not withdrawn with my close friends at all. That doesn't mean I'm not an Introvert.

Haha, and yes, Narnia is fantasy. But, again, especially when it comes to the "this type usually enjoys these sorts of books/music/movies/hobbies" stuff, you have to remember that you're still you, and it's okay if you don't fit your type description EXACTLY.

It's a big picture thing. It's about how your brain works and how you instinctively deal with certain situations, I think. I think it helps, too, to read about the individual cognitive functions, and not just an overview of the type. It's not going to be 100%, although it should be close-ish.


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## pro at filing

Kate7 said:


> The thing is, I like people and have fun with people on an aquaintance level but don't seem to fit the social mould in a daily, general sense. I don't need people interaction to be energised, though I do get energised and stimulated by discussions on interesting subjects, getting to the bottom of things - also scientific discoveries, possibilities, figuring things out. I love to have revelations, put things together, you know??! But I am sensitive to people too. I avoid personal confrontations, prefer to keep things on the intellectual level I guess. Though people often don't think of me as intellectual, I can even come across as ditsy, air head. I am absent minded and even slightly awkward/nervous whilst at the same time being engaged and interested. Am I confusing you all? I am certainly confusing me ...


Sorry in advance for throwing you off again, but this paragraph kinda sounds like ENTP to me. Maybe not so much the last one or two characterizations.

Anyway, I think there are basically 4 ways to type somebody (the test not included in those, but that's ok here since your results are all over the place anayway):
1) Which profile is the best fit?
2) What is the dominant/auxiliary function?
3) Which Myers-Briggs preferences can be discerned?
4) Which Keirsey preferences can be discerned?

What's been going on here is a mixture of 2) and 3).
A word on 3), maybe you should try to determine your J/P preference last. I assume that is the least helpful preference for introverts (of which you still might be one), because the difference for J and P introverts may be less pronounced than for extroverts - after all, the I__P's dominant function is a judging one, so seriously, how much weight can the P preference carry, and accordingly for the the I__J.
Another thought on that, maybe you are in the middle on one or more preferences, and that's making it difficult to determine your type. Like only a 10% T preference or so. Often I manage not only to type somebody, but to make a guess on the strength of one or more of their preferences, it can be quite helpful because it helps to further individualize the assessment. Example: I currently have the opinion that House M.D. is an INTP with a pretty weak I preference. This leads to a tip on 2):
You could try a tool that gives you the approximate strength of each of the 8 functions in you, when I have 10 posts I'll give you the link ><

So I may use a mixture of several of the above factors, combined with a gut feeling hehe. What hasn't been used are the Keirsey preferences, which I mostly use to supplement the others. You might also read the temperament profiles (a temperament comprises 4 types) to narrow it down. Keirsey would say that the most important preference is the N/S one. From the above paragraph I get the impression you're an N, following what other people have written so far. Then Keirsey has 2 preferences that the MBTI doesn't go into. Again, useful links on this topic pending the 10 posts threshold ...
For one, the utilitarian/cooperative preference: do you tend to ask yourself (and implement) "what works" (util.) or rather "what is right" (coop.)? If you can do this, you'll have determined your temperament, Rational in the case of util. and Idealist in the case of coop., which is already worth a lot. SJs and NFs are coop., SPs and NTs util. Probably ISFJ most coop. of the cooperators, ENFP least. ESTP most util. of the utilitarians, INTJ least.
For another, the informing/directing preference. Do you tend to communicate by directing others or by informing them? I would bear in mind that one probably tends to seldom direct one's friends, even if one has a directing preference. STs and NJs are directing, SFs and NPs informing. Probably ESTJ/ENTJ most directing of the directing types, ISTP/INFJ least. I typed my boss (actually he isn't, I freelance doing assignments that he provides) as ENTP and not ESTP using that, because he is highly informing, I've never heard him say "I need you to do it this way", only "You could do it this way".
Keirsey puts the intro/extraversion preference last or at bottom-most priority. Another question to help determine this would be: "Do you express most of your thoughts, or do you keep most of them to yourself?"

In closing, I'd like to encourage you to give more information if the above doesn't provide the solution, and the INFJ trail doesn't pan out. You already mentioned some stuff you like to do. What do you do for a job, or what would you like to do? Why would you like to do it? Or don't you know? If you don't know, is that because you are young, or does it point to a P and/or N preference? What moves you? Which temperament seems to fit best?

Damn this post has become a monster! Hope it's halfway worth it lol


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## Kate7

And you said your mood was tired! Wow! Thanks heaps though. I am trying to be organised about this so here are some thoughts on what you said:
- My husband is ENTP and I am SOOO not him. I am not nearly so clever, innovative, manipulative, fun etc etc.
- My daughter is INFJ and I not like her either. She is MUCH sharper than me, much more instinctively 'right' about people ... shyer, quieter, cooler than me. She COULD be an INTJ though so ...
- I think I HAVE to be an NF in terms of the Kiersey descriptions yet I don't think I am actually intuitive!! I could also possibly be an SJ, slightly less possible an NT and very unlikely to be an SP ... though I am a wannabe SP!! They are my heroes - natural, funny, good looking, instinctively right about things, you know!
- As for dominant/auxiliary function - I have no idea even though I have looked at them a lot - probably Ni or Ti or maybe even Si is strong but can't tell the difference ... the extraverted one is anyone's guess.
- The Extravert/introvert thing is hard too, esp over the internet a you are only getting me in writing. To describe me more ... I am this wierd combo of friendly, almost ditsy on the surface - kind of funny, absent minded, nice, warm, can be really enthusiastic, I bustle around physically busy a lot if people are round (combine Se with Ni or Ti??), don't just sit and listen unless they are talking to me about something deeply personal and need some eye contact ... you know? Yet underneath all this, I am intense and serious and thinking a lot all the time always about big picture and how all the little bits fit in and what's right and wrong etc. I love to be left alone for long periods to do this - to think and write etc. - but then when people come over, i get into it and am fun. I ask people questions so they confide in me, I am considered a bit of a sage, people ask me for advice but I am never sure whether they truly respect me or not. I do not command respect, but the things I say are interesting and wise.
BUT ... to answer your questions (which might help the most ...)
- For my job, I write for and publish an internet news magazine which my entp husband created ... I used to be a student dean and before that did all kinds of wierd things - cut hair at home (self taught), made sandwhiches and took them round offices, worked as a receptionist (awful!). Mostly I have been a mother, I have lots of kids and devoted my self to them but not always easily as I like to focus on my own stuff too much! I have written three books on motherhood already, am working on a series of five eventually to be published ... My ideal job would be an agony aunt (though I hate that name and the trashy thing they often are). I love solving people problems, and in as efficient a way as possible. If I was younger, I would like to have been a GP, or a scientist of some kind searching for a cure for cancer - or both at the same time. Or else maybe a nurse caring for soldiers at war - though I think I would be shit at that and this is just a fantasy- I am nice but absent minded, might kill someone by mistake and am not good at practical care .. would rather take care of them emotionally. I could also be a psychotherapist or a counsellor - working with prisoners or people with serious issues - I would like to help those who have no-one. Is all this helpful? 
- The P/J thing is annoying. I love organising my life and have routines I live by etc, yet I no-one would ever describe me as an organised kind of person, I am pretty sure of that. I never remember to take library books back etc, I am on the black books of almost ever dvd store, and I often miss dental appointments etc. It is only by sheer discipline and the use of routines that I do the housework. But I do have a lot of self-discipline, that is a trait I think. I do exercise routines etc. But I change them every so often. i have never stuck at anything for more than a year. I have very strong principles and beliefs but I doubt them all the time and have to re-figure them all the time as new information comes in. I am seen by some as strict and even draconian. By others as weak and woolly. I am directive in the way I speak, but suggest also - it depends what the person needs. For example, when the children were little, I directed them a lot, now they are older, I suggest. 
I am not very spontaneous, if that helps, though I absolutely LOVE being around spontaneous people and will go for the ride.
I think TOO MUCH.
I say meaningless chatty things without thinking, but if it is something important I will stew on it for ages and get it just right before I say it (and preferably will say it in writing though have learned to pull it out verbally much better now) 
Does any of this help? Thanks everyone btw ... for your help!!!


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## pro at filing

Kate7 said:


> I could also be a psychotherapist or a counsellor - working with prisoners or people with serious issues - I would like to help those who have no-one. Is all this helpful?


The whole text, and especially the above sentence, suggests an NF, as you said. So yea, for that and other reasons, what you wrote did produce a clearer picture. I don't really think you're a Guardian, I still have the impression you are more abstract than concrete - plus you seem to dislike work just a little too much to be a Guardian :wink:. Rational doesn't seem very liikely either, even a mature Rational should be unlikely to so actively or directly care, especially an introvert, which I think you are. That's because you paint the picture of someone who does indeed keep most of her thoughts to herself or maybe publishes them as a book, and generally does, taking into account your large family, a fair amount of solitary work.
So that would leave us with an INF_ type. You don't seem to identify very well with INFJs and I personally didn't get a very strong INFJ vibe in your last post, sooo .... at this point, my best guess is INFP with a weak F preference, and the other preferences probably no more than 30% (gives me mixed feelings to repeat other posts with that statement :] ). The above quote fits pretty well with INFP, of course that's taking it as isolated though.

The only other question that I can think of at the moment to clarify or confirm (although you have partly answered it), is what do you do well/best, and what do you do less well/least well?


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## Kate7

Wow, you are really helpful. 

It is so hard to answer questions like what I do least well or most well. I feel that others would answer this better for me. I asked my daughter, she said:

Most well - talk - eg. express thoughts
Least well - be commanding

I am good at aesthetic things like drawing, cutting hair etc.. also at writing, expressing ideas and concepts clearly. I understand complicated materials easily and can 'translate' them for others.
I am bad at NOT making a mess - I am careless. work fast and carelessly. I work on all these things though, so am not really BAD at anything. The thing I am most bad at is probably confronting. I can and will tell a hard truth to someone I love but it is hard. 
At school, I was generally good at most things - mostly english, art, history, science. Less maths, geography, sport.

I can be bossy and pedantic sometimes, that's the thing, and infp's are NEVER described like that. Also I am not quiet. i have a loud voice and i get very enthusiatic. But I DO prefer working alone and can be with my own thoughts/projects for ages. Also I NEVER instigate social contact or events, I am a tag along in that respect

The last quirk is: I can be quite cold and logical when I need to be. Lots of very 'feeling' people annoy me and some think I am too tough (maybe due to high principles?) - especially isfj's!!! i do have a pragmatic side - what works matters to me as well as what is right .. though probably what is right matters more now I think about it.

My mum described me in five words once. She said: Clever, creative, sweet-natured, brave, optimistic ...


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## Idont

Look at the heart like a computer and think wirelessly because you've got the code


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## Kate7

Thanks Skitzabeth .. I am getting closer, with everyones help. It's very hard to see 'what your brain does instinctively', that's the thing - it's instinctive so happens without thinking ... and I tend to think everything through so everything I do is filtered. What I've been thinking about is what exactly am I filtering everything with? That ought to give me a clue. And I am beginning to think it is maybe Fi ... which would make me infp. Just a loud one!!!


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## pro at filing

Sounds a lot like INFP to me. At this point (and somewhat self-righteously assuming that this is in fact your type:happy, cudos to the people who arrived at the INF_ or INFP conclusion way earlier than me, I couldn't have done that. Though that might be because, alas, I have hardly gotten to know any INF_'s at all in what laughingly is called "real life"...



Kate7 said:


> I understand complicated materials easily and can 'translate' them for others.


That is actually reported as being a typical INFP strength - the ability to "dejargonize" things. "_Zen and the Art of the Internet_", by Brendan P. Kehoe, is mentioned as an example of this "dejargonizing".

Now to explain away the discrepancies, and make the facts fit the theory :laughing: :


Kate7 said:


> I can be bossy and pedantic sometimes, that's the thing, and infp's are NEVER described like that. Also I am not quiet. i have a loud voice and i get very enthusiatic....


The latter part sounds like a non-crucial deviation from the "typical" INFP, as kibou and Skitzabeth said. Being bossy, you're right that doesn't fit too well, I would guess INFPs are the most informing of all the informing types, maybe your Te is more developed than with most INFPs? Or maybe that behavior can arise from a certain perfectionism that many INFPs report as having (which I can relate to as an INTP), especially in a large family. I'd like to hear what other INFPs have to say, especially those with a largish family.



Kate7 said:


> The last quirk is: I can be quite cold and logical when I need to be. Lots of very 'feeling' people annoy me and some think I am too tough (maybe due to high principles?) - especially isfj's!!! i do have a pragmatic side - what works matters to me as well as what is right .. though probably what is right matters more now I think about it.


I assume that your Ti is of decent strength compared to your Fi. I know this INTP who took the function strength test (see below) and found that his Fi was almost as strong as his Ti (he did have the corresponding influences in his life to nurture his Fi), so I can imagine something similar with you.
If you are in the middle of an MBTI dichotomy, I guess chances are that you're in the middle of Keirsey one too.

Woo that makes 10 posts, hence I can do this:


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## Kate7

I was actually contemplating "I, Ntp" as a username for a bit (but no commas allowed here) - with obvious implications (or critique of self or own type) coming from the "I, Robot" reference :crazy:

I love it. You are good at this naming thing I, Ntp :wink:

Actually, trying to type someone may be a doorway into exploring them as an individual. I think that was/is the case for me. 

That's a good way to think of it - as a doorway to getting to know people .. not THE doorway .. and not the whole journey either ... obviously! 

As for the intruding, I have a friend who finds it scary that someone would want to type him ... but I think he has mild issues, he is INTJ so I don't think his natural state is being averse like that ... the only ethical thought I have had about the MBTI is, you can use it to get into people's heads, so one can only hope that MBTI users will behave themselves in there ...

I have wondered myself whether those who resist any kind of typing are people with 'issues' .. as in, they don't WANT to be known - one of my daughters is like this  i know she is resistant to looking within and also being vulnerable to people (she is istp) - maybe T's are more susceptible to this? I have noticed that SJ types don't have any problem with it - they love it. I guess sp's don't like to be tied down ... and nt's can be paranoid ... and nf's are just so _unique_ ... :laughing: 

I do also strongly agree that we have to be careful with the getting into peoples heads things ... this kind of analysis can put you on the _outside_ of a person, which can be interpreted as putting yourself _above _ the person. People want to be understood, but more, they want to be loved. Also I really do think it is true that you can only really _know_ someone in the 'biblical' sense of know ... that is, by experience. 

I am definitely interested in the applications for helping people, but I think the real main reason I liked the system is because it opened a whole gallery of colorful modes of being and approaches to life which I could then understand. It also helped to understand other people's motivations and hence respect them more (similarly, actually, for myself ...)

I am with you here, brother! It was almost revelatory for me in that sense. It saved our marriage, and me in a way, from death-by-misunderstanding. I was always seeing/judging people through my parents eyes - maybe lots of people do? ... the MBTI was a bit of an aha moment for me.

But Ni, I mean I would really like to have better access to that function, but it's probably the hardest function of all to develop if you don't have it naturally strong... Se probably has to be the easiest, right?

Se is the easiest to _locate_ but I personally find it ridiculously hard to actually _do_. I have to REALLY CONCENTRATE to get good at it ... and I can't keep it up for long, I zone out or get distracted. Ni though - you're right, that is hard. I was really surprised how low it was on my cognitive processes test too. Can it be developed at all I wonder, or is it you've either got it or you haven't? Theoretically, it's available to us all, so maybe it's just the _locating_ that's the hard bit? I should imagine that if you've clicked into it once, it gets easier thereafter? Let me know how you go eh :happy: maybe I'll have a go too ...

That opinion is pretty much exactly what this german psychologist/learning techniques researcher says, who I find very interesting. She's made a dvd on the subject, which I wanted to buy when I get the chance ... she also recommends the book "Men are from Mars, Women from Venus" - and as far as popular culture goes, she says the show "Golden Girls" is an excellent portrayal of the typically feminine way of thinking, and the show "Yes, Minister" accordingly for the male approach. She recommends watching those 2 alternatingly, then watching "Ally McBeal" to top it off and see a clear portrayal of the dynamics that occur when the sexes meet 

What is this woman's name? Sounds interesting to me too. I'll start my thread and put some of my ideas/questions up for scrutiny ... probably in General Psych or Critical Thinking as i dont want it to be too confused by all the hormones raging in Sex and Relationships :wink:

Sorry Promethea (who proposed ESFJ), but nah. You really don't strike me as an ESTJ, indeed if you were I guess it would be unlikely we would even be having this conversation. 

Why would that be? Don't you think ESTJ's are curious?

As far as ESFJ goes, well you said that you never initiate social gatherings, didn't you? Isn't that one of the things that ESFJs are all about? Also, I think ESTJs would likely initiate at least at important anniversaries, like birthdays, thanksgiving etc. No way you're ES_J, in my opinion.

Okay, well in Joe Butt's description of infp he says we can put on our 'estj business suit' so I'll assume that's how my test came up as that first time. Also the many birthday parties I had to throw for my many children thrust me somewhat stressfully into that role for a long time. Knowing a few estj's has helped put that one to bed for me really though ... whenever I have suggested we are the same type they have looked at me as if i just crawled out from under a ... Interestingly, this type is often somewhat intrigued and confused by me. They pick my brains at first, thinking maybe I am some kind of guru, and then they discard me when they have gleaned what they want anyway and now I'm just getting confusing  I don't blame them - I feel the same about me ha ha! 

As for ESFJ, well I am about as unlike the female versions of these as you can be. I couldn't carpool to save my life, I can barely get my own kids to school on time (I was late for two years once!). I am largely anti-social with the female scene in general - unfortunately - of which esfj's are the masters! My sister is one and she is very helpful to me ... and she's funny too, they really have a good sense of humour but that is never said in the type descriptions! You know, I'd like to write some type descriptions of my own one day ... maybe when I've got this male/female question sorted ... oh, and that one about being bang in the middle ...


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## pro at filing

Kate7 said:


> I have wondered myself whether those who resist any kind of typing are people with 'issues' .. as in, they don't WANT to be known


Can't really comment on that ... I had meant the opposite direction of indication, too - that I'm pretty sure my friend has mild issues, and that may explain this resistance in him. Not that that kind of resistance indicates someone has issues. I wouldn't make that assumption, especially with kids, but I can't exclude there being a rule here either.



Kate7 said:


> I do also strongly agree that we have to be careful with the getting into peoples heads things ... this kind of analysis can put you on the _outside_ of a person, which can be interpreted as putting yourself _above _ the person. People want to be understood, but more, they want to be loved.


Nicely put :happy:



Kate7 said:


> Also I really do think it is true that you can only really _know_ someone in the 'biblical' sense of know ... that is, by experience.


o.Ö the biblical sense of knowing, didn't that mean sleeping with someone? :shocked:



Kate7 said:


> It saved our marriage, and me in a way, from death-by-misunderstanding. I was always seeing/judging people through my parents eyes - maybe lots of people do? ... the MBTI was a bit of an aha moment for me.


Wow ... yea parent's judging definitely has an influence ... I have heard that a positive correlation has been found between the strength of the dogma children are exposed to and the probability that they will stick to it when they grow up ...



Kate7 said:


> What is this woman's name?


Vera Birkenbihl. Alas, not much of her work seems to have been translated into English. Mainly her book on her foreign language learning method (in my not entirely informed opinion, the best method out there - I tested it a bit on myself with Spanish).



Kate7 said:


> Why would that be? Don't you think ESTJ's are curious?


It's just that I don't tend to have very good conversations with ESTJs (compliment implied :wink ... maybe I haven't met the "right" ESTJ though *shrugs*

It's funny that I'm sorta doing in this forum what I tend to do at social gatherings, too: zone in on one person and have an intense discussion and more or less ignore the other people in the room ... maybe we should go mingle a bit? :laughing:


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## Kate7

Gosh that is exactly what I do too - zone in on one person ... yes probably we should go mingle a bit (even though I have very much enjoyed our discussions :happy but I have to say one more thing.

I tried out Ni this morning. I was thinking it might be a good idea to try it out on people we tcaht to online - as in, I wasn't thinking of the ethical complications (oops - getting into people's head!), I was just thinking that it might be a good place to try as there is limited sensing information to go on. So I started thinking about you. Alll I know of you is what you have said about yourself (which is a lot, I agree) but still, I had a go without analysing the idea too much first (which is probably the only way you can do it eh! ... ethics issues can easily crop up with this i can see!!) Anyway. I started thinking what has been said about Ni and how it applies and the first thing I remembered was that you might get 'an image of profound and far reaching significance' or something like that - so I thought of you (please don't get the wrong idea oh dear I hope all this isn't too wierd, I literally just though of you, no feelings, k?) let my mind wander and straight away got an image. I would like to tell you what I saw and what came flowing after that, but I think I probably need your permission. I mean, whilst it could easily be a figment of my imagination and say more about me than you ... on the other hand it could be true. It's not all that revelatory or intense but still, it is personal so I thought I'd ask? What say you? Are you willing to be a lab rat?!

Oh, and the 'biblical sense of knowing' is commonly used as a reference to sex, yes, but I meant 'knowing' in the sense of what the word means in the Hebrew language generally - to them (and in the bible) knowing isn't about information, it is about experience. That applied/applies to anything, not just sex :happy:


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## vocalist

Kate-- I'm sorry if this has already been said, I haven't taken the time to read through every post...At one point, you were trying to come to a decision between INFP and INFJ. If this is still the case, a few things to consider...

An INFJ's functions are ordered like this: Ni, Fe, Ti, Se, Ne, Fi, Te, Si

An INFP's functions are ordered like this: Fi, Ne, Si, Te, Fe, Ni, Se, Ti

So you see, even though they appear to be just a letter away from each other, they are really quite different when you break them down into their respective functions.

So, Ni vs. Ne: do you tend to trust your own intuiton more, or do you prefer brainstorming and looking at every option before making a decision?

Fe vs. Fi: are you more likely to consider other people's feelings and how they will be affected when you make a decision, or are you more likely to listen to your own gut and do or say what you feel to be right?

Ti vs Te: are you better at problem-solving and analyzing data, or at categorization and seeing logical consequences?

Se vs. Si: Do you more often find yourself reacting to sensory input in the moment, or do you seek to link current sensations with previous experiences?


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## pro at filing

Kate7 said:


> Gosh that is exactly what I do too - zone in on one person ... yes probably we should go mingle a bit (even though I have very much enjoyed our discussions :happy


Well, we don't have to stop having any, but the thought came to mind, why not have them on a thread that is well visited? Although it does get more difficult there to react to a specific person.



Kate7 said:


> I would like to tell you what I saw and what came flowing after that, but I think I probably need your permission. I mean, whilst it could easily be a figment of my imagination and say more about me than you ... on the other hand it could be true. It's not all that revelatory or intense but still, it is personal so I thought I'd ask? What say you? Are you willing to be a lab rat?!


Now you've made me curious hehe ... yea I think I'd like to hear it, but I can't promise that I'd be willing to publicly comment on whether certain aspects are right or wrong. Or maybe just say "wrong", but not add how it is in reality. If that's ok for *you* ...


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## Kate7

vocalist;602584
So said:


> Okay, well with Ni vs Ne, I tend to prefer brainstorming and looking at every option before making a decision
> 
> With Fe vs Fi, I am more likely to consider other poeple's felings and how they will be affected though I am also keen to do or say what I feel is right - these two things fight!!! But I don't 'listen to my gut' hardly at all, not even sure what that means. I feel turmoil in my gut, but that doesn't help me make a decision, you know!!
> 
> With Ti vs Te I am better at problem solving and analyzing data
> 
> With Se vs Si I more likely seek to link current sensations with previous experiences.
> 
> What does this make me??


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## Kate7

I feel rather uncomfortable doing this and want to apologise beforehand for the cheesiness. Also it is a bit of a risk for me as it could reveal more of my own psyche than your, but hey, here it is:

I immediately saw an angel (which was wierd - I am not particularly into angels). Firstly I saw that this represented your desire for purity, and to help people (I realise I have experienced this help from you myself ... but there was more). I saw that you are a protector. That you are (and have been) a guardian. That you have had responsibility in your life. That you have hope. Then I saw that there was another meaning - a sadness, a loss of some kind, probably actually a death. I felt that the angel represented your hope that there is a spiritual world - a part of you wants to believe this or maybe you do already believe this? You are the angel, but you want/hope there is a real angel too. 
I saw that the angel was unadorned and unformed, no face, blurry edges, more the impression of an angel, and i felt this meant that you have not thought much about this and it is only an unformed possibility in your mind. (You wonder that maybe the 'angel' you hope will come to comfort and enlighten you will be a girl - flesh and blood). Also, the angel that is you is unformed ... you don't know what you want to look like yet. You need to choose a face, and to clothe yourself.

I could go on but I'm not sure if I'm on the right track ... ??


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## pro at filing

Wow ... that gave me goosebumps!

I can't verify the (actual) death, and spirituality, hm, I have thought about it and do have a potential "projection surface" for spirituality, but I haven't yet determined my relationship to it satisfactorily. Also, I don't want to go all "yes, the angel comparison totally fits" lol - for example, I do have a helping instinct, but I must admit that a decent amount of my initial motivation to dive into this thread came from it half-jokingly holding the promise of being labeled a genius 

But generally, I think this is a fine example of exactly what I value in introverted feelers - one tells them things, for example about one's life (or in this case, even doesn't tell or only hints), and these things are reflected back in a sublimated form. It's like the emotional core and the pure good contained therein is extracted and enhanced. Fantastic.

If you want to go on (by all means, do!), maybe now's the time to take it to private messages


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## vocalist

Kate7 said:


> Okay, well with Ni vs Ne, I tend to prefer brainstorming and looking at every option before making a decision
> 
> With Fe vs Fi, I am more likely to consider other poeple's felings and how they will be affected though I am also keen to do or say what I feel is right - these two things fight!!! But I don't 'listen to my gut' hardly at all, not even sure what that means. I feel turmoil in my gut, but that doesn't help me make a decision, you know!!
> 
> With Ti vs Te I am better at problem solving and analyzing data
> 
> With Se vs Si I more likely seek to link current sensations with previous experiences.
> 
> What does this make me??


Hmmm...Have you looked at the ISFJ? Or ESFJ? INTP is also a possibility, or ENTP. Those are the four with Ne, Fe, Ti, and Si as the four primary functions. 

That said, it still might be that none of those is the best fit...I went back and forth for some time between ISFJ and ESFJ, but once I really started getting into the fuctions, I realized that a lot of the confusion lay in my disinclination to trust my Ni over Ne, not that Ni wasn't the stronger, but just that I had somehow got it into my head that Ne was more reliable, even though it wasn't my naturally preferred fuction. Also, once I learned more about Si and Se, I realized that I really stink at using Si, and that my Se is really rather strong.

I also understand the conflict between Fe and Fi. Interestingly, when I've taken a couple of online tests ranking the eight functions, both Fi and Fe have been the top two. After thinking about that for a while, I realized that the reason Fi was so high was because of the strong moral and religious values I grew up with, not because Fi really came naturally to me.


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## Kate7

Okay, we'll take it back to the main page in case anyone else finds these explorations interesting  I asked you what using N was like as an INT ... and you said: As far as INT goes, I'll leave my emotional side largely aside and mention a few things I see in myself that I think come for pure INTP-ness.
I find myself searching for principles of how things work farily often, for distilled truths and one-line descriptions. I like to find out how things fit together, and construct things (like a computer program I recently finished for college). A lot of the time though, I am happy taking in (relatively) unconnected pieces of juicy information, they by no means always have to be embedded in a larger framework to carry meaning for me. That seems to be a difference to INTJs, as far as I have determined in a short discussion on the subject with an INTJ friend of mine. Information gathering seems intricately tied to gathering of understanding. I sometimes come up with classifications without a feeling of control over it, like they come up on their own. I search for words more often than other people, as if I wasn't a native speaker, because I am searching for exactly the right word which I know exists but can't think of momentarily. I love conscious contradictions, and basing humor on contradictions. More generally, I would say that every now and then I like to make humor by consciously applying wrong logic. I can also have quite dry humor though, I can identify with House, M.D. sometimes, although I don't make jokes at the expense of concrete people like he does. Oh and as far as weaknesses go, I have a solid history of clamming up in social situations or at least not saying much. Basically, if I walk into a room full of people, I think "Shit, what now?". And I am somewhat scared by the prospect of and pretty disturbed by the occurrence of me offending other people.
Some things that may be more ISTP, I'm not sure, are a decent kinaesthetic sense and spatial relations.
Was that the kind of description you were looking for? 

 I liked all of this. I definitely like people like you, probably BECAUSE you are so worried about offending other people. I think that's lovely! House MD SURELY is an ENTP? I am married to an ENTP and i think the E makes them ummm, lets say 'outspoken'. I have noticed this is taken as mean (and certainly can be very painful) but often they are very caring people who have no intention of wounding anyone - they just say what they see and don't seem to realise the fallout that can happen when you don't consider a person's feelings ... They are GREAT for seeing and saying the truth ... and the truth is so ESSENTIAL for the health of everything ... but the truth REALLY HURTS sometimes!! Our kids always say I 'soften' my husband and make him hear-able. I also translate when he goes over everyone's heads ... But people often hate him and think he's evil. And it hurts being hated and misunderstood - like House these people can end up very alone and with a fair amount of rejection issues. SO, I can understand the INTP concern over social conversation - man it's a minefield!!! You must be so painfully aware that saying what is in your head would very LIKELY cause offence or be misunderstood or else bore them to death ... yet you are left helpless by not having strong enough 'feel' for people to 'translate' what you are saying, or even to know what is appropriate to say, effectively. Gosh!!! Personally I think, for you, just stick to being quiet until you find someone who is interested in you - if someone is interested in you, you're fine! What I do is I just talk to whoever is introduced to me, ask questions about them and sort of dig for a conversation topic, or I'll stand in a group and listen for a bit ... but once I've found someone who seems to want to talk with me, I'll pretty much talk intensely with them all evening ... which really pisses my husband off!!! (he 'works the room' in 10 minutes and then gets bored!!). In that sense social situations are endless sources of inspiration for me - I could spend a week with each individual person .. I could NEVER get bored. Tired, yes, but I only notice that after - at the time, it is so interesting ... people actually are interesting if you can get past the fluff and get them talking about something that really matters to them. 

In all other areas you mentioned, I feel very similar to you. I too 'find myself searching for principles of how things work farily often, for distilled truths and one-line descriptions. I like to find out how things fit together, and construct things' and to find exactly the right word etc (I am CONSTANTLY editing and re-editing my writings!!). But I don't tend to think much about just 'stuff' - it's true as the descriptions say - it's more the connections BETWEEN things, it's when they fit TOGETHER and make something else or reveal something bigger, that's the exciting part. But I don't tend to apply this thinking much to impersonal things like computer programs either though I think actually I CAN and I do enjoy reading code and stuff like that (I work publishing an internet magazine so do this a lot). I have wondered, is this the F orientation, or is it my female life raising children?! (BTW I started a thread on this in General Psyche).

I do not share your kinaesthetic and spatial sense at all - though I have read in various descriptions that INTP's are good at this. Why is this do you think? Is it because you think logically, mathematically - so when you see something, even the space around you, you instinctively and accurately measure it? It's a Ti thing isn't it? It's like you see in numbers or something? Like Neo!!! 

So I guess, put simply, INP's spend their time figuring things out in their head and are drawn to explanation/innovation. ISP's figure things out with their hands (my ISTP daughter says she DOESN"T think!) and are drawn to application/creation. The IJ's figure things out too, in various ways, but they don't seem to ENJOY it as much!! I think they feel they have to come quite quickly to a conclusion or make an application which takes all the fun out of it :wink:

I really think I HAVE to be an INFP ... if only a SLIGHT one. it's hard to be finally conclusive about it but I guess that comes with the territory ... I hope we get to chat again on some other threads ... let me know when you start one or if you find one you think is interesting and I'll hop on! Big thanks :laughing:


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## Kate7

Thanks Vocalist :happy:

Yes, I have often thought I am like both an ESFJ and an INTP - polar opposites. Maybe I just use all these functions well. BUT in my conversations with others on this thread I have realised I relate to the NF more than SJ or NT. Soooo, in the end I think I am closest to INFP .. but I am one of those 'in the middle' people so can play ENFJ too and also INTP ... depends who I'm with and what is needed. I am a bit of a chameleon and am interested in researching further whether one type (pos INFP's) are typically chameleons and thus find themselves hard to type? Have you noticed any of this? What do you think? What type are you?


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## Miss Scarlet

Welcome, and I have no clue.


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## Kate7

Thanks ENTJwillruletheworld ... but you're giving up rather easily aren't you? :happy:


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## kibou

Lol, if you're so unsure, maybe you are an INFP after all! Out of all types it seems INFPs have the most identity confusion.


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## Kate7

Thanks Kibou, I am beginning to think that may be the clinching factor myself! :happy:


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## vocalist

Kate7 said:


> Thanks Vocalist :happy:
> 
> Yes, I have often thought I am like both an ESFJ and an INTP - polar opposites. Maybe I just use all these functions well. BUT in my conversations with others on this thread I have realised I relate to the NF more than SJ or NT. Soooo, in the end I think I am closest to INFP .. but I am one of those 'in the middle' people so can play ENFJ too and also INTP ... depends who I'm with and what is needed. I am a bit of a chameleon and am interested in researching further whether one type (pos INFP's) are typically chameleons and thus find themselves hard to type? Have you noticed any of this? What do you think? What type are you?


This was always my confusion, too. It took me a long time to settle on INFJ, but it's a perfect fit for me. INFJs apparently have a talent for taking on other personality types rather easily, so maybe you're an INFJ, too. I suppose INFP might also be possible, but I guess it really depends...Are you confused about your type because you "play" them all so well (more of an INFJ trait)? Or because you lack confidence in your ability to be yourself and still be likable (more of an INFP trait, in my observation)?


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## WMDistraction

Here's what I gathered:

ENFP v ENFJ
Ne- Fe
Fi-Ni
Te-Se
Si-Ti

INFP v ENFP
Fi-Ne
Ne-Fi
Si-Te
Te-Si

INFJ v INFP
Ni-Fi
Fe-Ne
Ti-Si
Se-Te

INFJ v ENFJ
Ni-Fe
Fe-Ni
Ti-Se
Se-Ti

The ENFJ, more than anything, was me making sure I understood how J-types worked as far as going from shorthand to type order, but I decided to include it, anyway. >_>

Wiki - INFP
Wiki - INFJ
Wiki - ENFJ
Wiki - ENFP

Figuring out if you have Fi and Ne v Ni and Fe is half your battle, and then you have to figure out how those two stack up against each other, and then where Te v Ti and Se v Si sit.

Here's how each of them are descibed on Wiki, if you didn't feel like surfing:



Wiki [Fi said:


> ]Fi filters information based on interpretations of worth, forming judgments according to criteria that are often intangible. Fi constantly balances an internal set of values such as harmony and authenticity. Attuned to subtle distinctions, Fi innately senses what is true and what is false in a situation.[17] With Fi as their dominant function, INFPs live primarily in a rich inner world of emotion.[18]





Wiki [Fe said:


> ]Fe seeks social connections and creates harmonious interactions through polite, considerate, and appropriate behavior. Fe responds to the explicit (and implicit) wants of others, and may even create an internal conflict between the subject’s own needs and the desire to meet the needs of others. [22]





Wiki [Ni said:


> ]Attracted to symbolic actions or devices, Ni synthesizes seeming paradoxes to create the previously unimagined. These realizations come with a certainty that demands action to fulfill a new vision of the future, solutions that may include complex systems or universal truths.[21]





Wiki [Ne said:


> ]Ne finds and interprets hidden meanings, using “what if” questions to explore alternatives, allowing multiple possibilities to coexist. This imaginative play weaves together insights and experiences from various sources to form a new whole, which can then become a catalyst to action.[19] INFPs engage the outside world primarily with intuition. They are adept at seeing the big picture, sensing patterns and the flow of existence from the past toward the future.[18]


Once you have Fe v Fi and Ne v Ni figured out, you have your options cut in half (From 4 to 2 in this example, from 2 to 1 if you're on the right track... Let's continue with my example, though! ). Now, if you know for a fact that you use Ne more than Fi, you are an ENFP. On the flipside, if you know you use Fi more than Ne, you're a definite INFP.

What if it's not so clear-cut? Your next option in avoiding further analysis is to think about how you act around people. Does social activity wear you out after awhile, or does it excite you? Do you have more or less energy after a social event than before? If you find social activity energizing, then you're an E. If you find social activity draining, however enjoyable or frequent, then you're an I.

The way the above method works is the way types are ordered in shorthand (using E as an example):

Dominant: Xe
Secondary: Xi
Auxiliary: Xe
Inferior: Xi

If you know you're an extravert, and you realize this about MBTI typology, then you already know your function orientation and don't have to do any further work if it's between, say, ENFP and INFP. (I'm an ENFP... I'm a bit biased with my examples...)

It also helps if you think that some _other_ function is prevalent, say you think you're more feeling (Fx) than sensing (Sx), or you're more intuitive (Nx) than thinking (Tx). _Knowing how your primary function is oriented can help eliminate a lot of doubt concerning other types._ Quite literally, it cuts your options in half.

Also, say your leading function is N, and it's extraverted. Well, now you know you're not a J, and you're not an I. What if your leading function is N, and it's introverted? Now you know you're not a P, and not an E. You have 3/4ths of your "letters" figured out. Your last step is just to figure out if your thought process is more logic-oriented, or more ethics- or emotions-oriented.

In summary...

Figure out E v I by whether or not social events are energizing (E) or draining (I). 

(As an example, I'll progressively fill in my type for which "blank" you should have filled in: Exxx)

If you answered E:
--If your leading function is S or N, you're a P.
--if your leading function is T or F, you're a J.

If you answered I:
See above, flip it. (S or N: J; T or F: P)

(ENxP)

If you answered S or N, figure out whether your secondary is T or F. You should just have to simply flip the orientation of your primary function (e.g. Ne -> Fi) in order to find how the T or F function you use should be oriented. Of course, this means researching both functions (e.g. Fi and Ti).

If you answered T or F, figure out whether your secondary is S or N. Again, you should just have to simply flip the orientation of your primary function (e.g. Fe -> Ni) to find how the S or N function should be oriented. Of course, this means researching both functions (e.g. Si and Ni).

(ENFP)

Obviously, this will require a lot of research, introspection, and honesty, no matter how objective or matter-of-fact it seems; especially for the second step (figuring out your dominant function). All in all, it doesn't make one bit of difference if you're an ENFP, or an INTJ, or whatever--_you are who you are_, and that's unique. It's an interesting tidbit of information that may, or may not (probably won't), help you guide yourself as you, personally, grow. Psychology's interesting and useful, but typology is nothing more than a label. More than anything, you should be true to who you are, and not what your type is.


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## Kate7

Man, this is getting seriously confusing. Not that the things you said weren't bloody brilliant WMDistraction, no they are where it's at. It's just that I have thought too much about all this and now find it hard to observe myself. What I really need is an Ne person to read between the lines of everything I have said, directly or indirectly, about myself, and just tell me what they think! 

I thought what you said at the end was really good though - I am unique anyway so this is all a bit silly ... I guess it's just that I find it so useful for other people as a leg up to understanding differences but then, they ask me 'what type are you' and if I say 'I don't know' it kind of ruins their faith in it at all! I've got to decide, I think, and then add to that the fact that I am unique and allow that to be a further part of understanding people ... beyond type/labels etc.

To be honest also, I have always found it hard to understand the descriptions of the use of both Ne and Ni and also Fi. I can see what Fe is, though I don't use the first bit much 'Fe seeks social connections and creates harmonious interactions through polite, considerate, and appropriate behavior.' However I do use the second bit 'Fe responds to the explicit (and implicit) wants of others, and may even create an internal conflict between the subject’s own needs and the desire to meet the needs of others.' I just don't go out of my way to be social, which is why I have thought I was an introvert. However, social interaction does energise me. I like my own company and am in my head a lot, yet when I DO meet with people, I find it inspirational and energising. I just don't INITIATE this. 

Fi - well I know I filter information ... and I guess this is through my 'value system' ... but this filtering feels more analytical and mind based than gut/feeling based. I contrast what is said/done with what I believe - and continue to thoroughly examine - to be true in the bigger picture; what fits with the principle, the 'natural law', God. Is this Fi? I have often thought of it as Ti? Am I confusing a strong tertiary use of Ti (INFJ) with the primary use of Fi (INFP)??

With Ne or Ni I really am at a loss. I defininely see the big picture and like to make connections across a broad stream of information. I see analogies everywhere, though I dont' use/value/notice symbolic devices or actions. I am more words than actions, more about understanding than doing. I think this is an NP trait, as a pose to an NJ trait?? What do you think?


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## Voici Claire

this is way to much for one person

it's just a friggin intro


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## WMDistraction

You definitely seem to lean NFP, to be honest. The fact that socializing seems refreshing to you, along with your "words over action" statement makes me think that you're extraverted; but that's not necessarily the truth. 

You can ignore the fact that you don't actively look for social activities. Unless I've had a long drought of little-to-no interaction with groups of people, I'm normally content to be by myself. Most of the time, though, I just wait until someone contacts me and asks if I'm up for something, which 99% of the time it's an emphatic, "Yes!" Keep in mind that I've strongly and consistently scored as an ENFP on a variety of different tests, and the descriptions for non-MBTI tests have been very similar to the ENFP's.

"More understanding than doing" is more of an Ne/Ni thing, I think. It's definitely how I am. 

Personally, if what you're telling me is true, you're probably an E of some sort, and maybe an ENxP. HOWEVER, it's also still possible you're an INFP. The function preferences aren't as clear in ENFP v INFP as when you switch the E/I with other types. This is mainly due to the oddly "introverted" nature of the ENFP in comparison to other Es, and the oddly "extroverted" nature of the INFP compared to other Is. Obviously, this makes things extremely confusing because we're usually able to tell with ease whether or not someone's an E or someone's an I, but in the case of the xNFP, it's not so clear-cut.

In this situation, you really have to think about how you prefer to unwind during stressful situations. Barring situations explicitly involving people, do you like to hang out with groups of friends, or do you tend to prefer being on your own? This can be a key difference that can tell you whether you're E or I. Otherwise, you'll just have to tough it out and figure out if you use Ne more or Fi more.

Again, it's not necessarily the case that you're either an ENFP or INFP, but that's what I'm leaning toward based on your previous post. The more you talk about yourself, though, the more I can (hopefully!) help you!


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## pro at filing

Sunrain said:


> I've re-read a few more responses and I think *NTP. Nothing else fits.. if you were an S you'd have abandoned this self-analysis long ago, if you were an NF you'd know what you are by now, if you were not a P you wouldn't be keeping your options open for this long, that gives you NTP. I think INTP, because the general description of an ENTP doesn't quite fit.
> 
> There's your answer .


Haha ... nice one.
But I think the problem is rather that Kate is so in between types ... for every result, there seem to be things that are explained well by it and others that just don't fit, because a comparison is being made with a clear-preference version of that type ...


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## Sunrain

pro at filing said:


> Haha ... nice one.
> But I think the problem is rather that Kate is so in between types ... for every result, there seem to be things that are explained well by it and others that just don't fit, because a comparison is being made with a clear-preference version of that type ...


Indeed, so I'd say "Borderline, intelligent, well-balanced INTP "


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## pro at filing

kibou said:


> Lol, now I have to ask mister pro and sunrain...what type do I appear to be based on my responses?


Ummm ... lol.
If you want feedback, start your own thread titled "If you can convince me that I'm not an ENFP, you're a genius".


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## simulatedworld

Kate7 said:


> Hello - my name is Kate and I have consistently proved impossible to type. But I must be hiding in there somewhere, right? If anyone can find me I will ... umm, well, be forever in your debt or else I'm sure I can find SOME way of saying thank you! Will provide honest and complete answers to questions to all who would like to take up on this challenge. Thanks!


Write a few paragraphs describing your life--career path, long term and short term goals, what makes you happy, what makes you upset, what bothers you about others, what are your most important values, etc.

Also your cognitive functions test means nothing.




kibou said:


> Based on these scores, ENTP is most likely - the N scores are highest, the S scores are lowest, and Ne is stronger in N, Si weaker in S. In Lenore's model of functions The order is usually: dominant > secondary > everything in between in individualistic orders > tertiary > inferior.


That's why cognitive function test scores are meaningless. She doesn't sound like an ENTP at all. I think she's an obvious F type.

The problem with these tests is that they're asking you to self-describe your ability to see certain kinds of perspectives, and if you've never actually experienced those perspectives directly then you don't have any basis for comparison so you can't really answer them accurately.

Think of each function as a colored lens that tints everything you see. If your dominant perspective is red-tinted, everything you see will be colored red, but you won't realize it because you've never experienced anything other than a red-tinted view.

So when a test asks you, "How good are you at seeing from a green-tinted perspective?", you may _think_ you know what green is because you've had it pointed out to you before, but you don't realize that your conception of green is biased by the red tint that affects your entire perspective. So you answer, "Yes, I am good at seeing green" but you don't realize that, due to the red-tinted bias of your dominant perspective, you don't really even know what green is.


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## Kate7

Hi, thanks everyone. It was the site itself that said this particular configuration made me most like to be an intp. Strange, I agree. I will take the test ONE MORE TIME, and this time I will do it in an extreme way - so things that aren't me, I'll say NOT ME, instead of LITTLE ME or SOMEWHAT ME etc.

It's actually kinda wierd that I come up high Ne because while I do have a lot of ideas, I am not innovative. My ideas EXPLAIN things, rather than CREATE things. Does that make sense? 

Truthfully, the type I THINK like is INTP. The type I ACT like (in public) is ENFP, or if I'm grumpy ESTJ. The type I SEEM like to truly tough minded people is INFP and the type I SEEM like to truly soft hearted people is probably something like ENTJ. I fit it - I take charge where necessary, I submit where necessary, I don't mind, though I am usually more of a tag along, fit in person. One thing though, I am not naturally empathetic/sympathetic - I have had to work at this. My first instinct when someone is upset is to analyse the problem - take it apart, ask them more questions etc, figure out what is going on and then offer various solutions. I act like a GP!! In fact, I'd like to be a GP. Some people find my ways unsympathetic or arrogant, though because I am not an arrogant type of person they just feel confused. On thinking about it, I have realised people don't come to me to cry on my shoulder, but for knowledge, insight, or ideas/solutions ... of course, since that is what I offer! This makes me think I am a T - and my results are definitely coming up higher T than F aren't they? If I can accept the T then that would be a start. And N seems obvious too. 

IF SO. What NT is enthusiastic yet not bold, not likely to take a lead but very likely to have an opinion. Quite absent minded but also tries to be organised and likes routines and efficiency. Enlivened by good debate and interesting people aka an extrovert but also enlivened and extremely happy just reading, writing ,figuring things out all on their lonesome. Who likes to WORK alone, but to PLAY with other, interesting people. Who doesn't like conflict and senses emotional atmospheres ... and definitely responds emotionally to all the obvious things ... but who will quickly detach in order to ''solve the problem''.

???


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## Kate7

Hello Sunrain, your stuff was so helpful - here is my response:
E/I. My idea of relaxation is more alone stuff - peaceful, like going somewhere all on my own and just exploring, wandering, letting it all sink in and fill gaps/give me revelations! I feel most like myself when I am on my own, going at my own pace like this too - though I always want to share it all with someone later! Other relaxing things would be reading or learning something new, escaping to another world of information and ideas - can also be by discussing interesting stuff with others or imagining the future with my husband over a bottle of wine or two! 
N/S. The first thing I'm likely to see and think if I'm alone and feeling at peace with the world is not my gut feelings - maybe my 'higher feelings' though - I'll feel very positive and enthused with understanding and clarity. Philosophy is fascinating and fundamental, not boring in the least though can send you mental if you're in a bad place. Compared to my friends I feel like a nice alien (not unlike my avatar!) - some see me as a bit of a 'pet'. I am slow on the pick up with jokes and double meanings etc. and I am not very insightful with people's emotions unless they tell me about them - I see what is on the surface. I'm not even sure what intuition means?
T/F. I am more likely to ask myself what makes sense. If someone asks me why I did something, I will give them the reason, and it will never be 'because it felt right'. Though I will consider my feelings as a factor, of course. I am good at verbalising, but verbalising my feelings takes thinking about as I try to justify/understand them first!!! Ha ha!
P/J. Good question. Actually, I think I might panic more at the second one as I would have to make a snap decision, which is hard. Though I think it is sensible to work in the second, more concrete, way or else nothing seems to actually happen! I often try to make arrangements in that way for that reason, though it would be nice if it could be the other way round I think ...
As for your other thoughts - thanks heaps! I often think I MAY be an ENFP simply because when I am particularly happy and in 'social mode', I can behave quite a bit like them. But really, you are right, there is no way I am actually one. I am slower on the uptake, that's for sure. 
How old am I? I'm 41. So I guess that means I COULD be a mature infp. Truth be known though, I am too impatient with people's feelings (and my own!) to be a true introverted feeler .. what do you think?? I HATE the thought of hurting people and work hard not to, and I really do CARE about people who are misunderstood or desperate but I always want to help them SOLVE their problems rather than help them FEEL their feelings. I often feel like feelings get in the way of people solving the very problems that are causing them!!! (See, I'm unsympathetic 
I COULD be an ISFJ - that would make sense of my slow on the uptake thing, but in every description of them they are described as people who learn by doing. As practical, serving types. I help with words more than actions (crap, I know) and I am nurturing, but more of the soul than of the body, you know? The isfj's I know are amazingly unself-centred and whilst I would like to be like that, I'm not.
The one and only reason I do not think I am an INTP is that I am NOT cool. I am quite a warm person and I am quite enthusiastic and chatty in social situations (unless I feel very out of place). It's almost like I am an extroverted intp without being the least bit like an entp!!
Long reply eh, but you've been so helpful so far, maybe you could figure it out for sure now???


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## Kate7

simulatedworld said:


> Write a few paragraphs describing your life--career path, long term and short term goals, what makes you happy, what makes you upset, what bothers you about others, what are your most important values, etc.
> 
> As a child I was enthusiastic about life - enjoyed school a lot, was in the advanced classes, also really into God (for a kid), frequently moved by music about him, saw exciting connections but didn't know what that was then, no-one else around me did either so I stopped pointing it out. Was a tomboy, boys for friends or played alone but quite friendly. Liked the teachers best.
> As a teenager dropped out of high school, couldn't see the point. Liked history and chemistry but too late for me by then. Dabbled in drugs but still loved God, sought the truth all the time but frequently confused.
> Met husband early, soul-mate - got married, then started thinking, now what the hell am I gonna do ... was considering nursing or acting or science of some kind - all I knew was I didn't want to work in an office but truth is I had NO IDEA what was out there.
> Problem solved when I got pregnant - scary scary but turned out brilliant. Ended up really getting my teeth into it, loving the challenge and the joy. Had 4 kids quite quickly then was thinking 'what do I do now' and got pregnant (whilst on full contraception) with fifth child! Five kids is a lot, soooo, have not had much time to do anything but have ALWAYS written lots about current issues, social issues, my thoughts, ideas. Have tried to improve almost every system I come across. Did a theology paper at one point. Did a sociology paper at one point. Have worked cutting hair from home, delivering sandwhiches, as a student dean in a distance learning establishment (enjoyed this). Now I write and publish on my husband's internet news magazine. Also emigrated to the other side of the world half-way through all that ..
> Long term plans not sure ... could be anything! I am up for anything though would quite like things to crystallise at some point and make use of my ideas/expertise if pos ... or at least produce some written works that I can pass on (have written two small books on motherhood ... am working on a set of 5)
> 
> Things I love: Learning, life, love, God, people, ideas, thoughts
> Things that annoy me: Not thinking, emotional decisions/opinions, having to back track, being interrupted a lot, people who don't communicate and then get annoyed because you didn't read their mind and do what they want
> My most important values: bothering with people, honouring your word/commitments, facing the truth even when painful, kindness, forgiveness, hope, faith, real, warts and all love ... all the usual!!
> What makes me happy: Solving something, really getting to the heart of an issue, getting something really RIGHT, really HELPING someone with an insight or solution. Mountains, fresh air and sunshine - nature in general, my children enjoying each other, my husband's kindness, a free day all to myself ...


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## Sunrain

Kate7 said:


> Hello Sunrain, your stuff was so helpful - here is my response:
> E/I. My idea of relaxation is more alone stuff - peaceful, like going somewhere all on my own and just exploring, wandering, letting it all sink in and fill gaps/give me revelations! I feel most like myself when I am on my own, going at my own pace like this too - though I always want to share it all with someone later! Other relaxing things would be reading or learning something new, escaping to another world of information and ideas - can also be by discussing interesting stuff with others or imagining the future with my husband over a bottle of wine or two!
> N/S. The first thing I'm likely to see and think if I'm alone and feeling at peace with the world is not my gut feelings - maybe my 'higher feelings' though - I'll feel very positive and enthused with understanding and clarity. Philosophy is fascinating and fundamental, not boring in the least though can send you mental if you're in a bad place. Compared to my friends I feel like a nice alien (not unlike my avatar!) - some see me as a bit of a 'pet'. I am slow on the pick up with jokes and double meanings etc. and I am not very insightful with people's emotions unless they tell me about them - I see what is on the surface. I'm not even sure what intuition means?
> T/F. I am more likely to ask myself what makes sense. If someone asks me why I did something, I will give them the reason, and it will never be 'because it felt right'. Though I will consider my feelings as a factor, of course. I am good at verbalising, but verbalising my feelings takes thinking about as I try to justify/understand them first!!! Ha ha!
> P/J. Good question. Actually, I think I might panic more at the second one as I would have to make a snap decision, which is hard. Though I think it is sensible to work in the second, more concrete, way or else nothing seems to actually happen! I often try to make arrangements in that way for that reason, though it would be nice if it could be the other way round I think ...
> As for your other thoughts - thanks heaps! I often think I MAY be an ENFP simply because when I am particularly happy and in 'social mode', I can behave quite a bit like them. But really, you are right, there is no way I am actually one. I am slower on the uptake, that's for sure.
> How old am I? I'm 41. So I guess that means I COULD be a mature infp. Truth be known though, I am too impatient with people's feelings (and my own!) to be a true introverted feeler .. what do you think?? I HATE the thought of hurting people and work hard not to, and I really do CARE about people who are misunderstood or desperate but I always want to help them SOLVE their problems rather than help them FEEL their feelings. I often feel like feelings get in the way of people solving the very problems that are causing them!!! (See, I'm unsympathetic
> I COULD be an ISFJ - that would make sense of my slow on the uptake thing, but in every description of them they are described as people who learn by doing. As practical, serving types. I help with words more than actions (crap, I know) and I am nurturing, but more of the soul than of the body, you know? The isfj's I know are amazingly unself-centred and whilst I would like to be like that, I'm not.
> The one and only reason I do not think I am an INTP is that I am NOT cool. I am quite a warm person and I am quite enthusiastic and chatty in social situations (unless I feel very out of place). It's almost like I am an extroverted intp without being the least bit like an entp!!
> Long reply eh, but you've been so helpful so far, maybe you could figure it out for sure now???


Well, from the first answer you're a clear introvert, because all those activities you've listed are alone-type activities where you re-charge your batteries. From the second answer it's clear your an N and I think that is very clear from this whole thread. From the third answer and also from what you just wrote above, I think you're a clear T, but because you're a balanced woman you also have all those female characteristics that make you come across to some people as more of an F. But you're a clear T.. you know, very very many of the Ts I know hate the thought of hurting people and they are incredibly kind people, but they think in the way you do - "lets do what makes sense, and why are you not being rational when you're causing yourself more problems that way??". And finally, I think you're a P, because you're keeping your options open on this thread, exploring everything for as long as possible before you come to a conclusion, and you said you would be more likely to panic at the second one even though you think it's sensible.. 

So, my conclusion is that you are an INTP. 

I think it's perfectly likely and normal that you sometimes act much more extroverted, that you sometimes act much more F etc.. I know for myself that there are certain of my friends (mainly INFPs) who think I'm rational, there are others of my friends (mainly T types) who think I'm irrational and emotional... we come across in different ways to different people but that's only to be expected because we all use all functions. 

And finally, I don't see what else you could be but INTP, because the only type where all what you've said fits, is that one.


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## Kate7

Thanks Sunrain. Your questions were good. It was easier to answer 'what do I find relaxing' than 'what re-charges your batteries' because when I think of re-charging, I think of stimulation, not relaxation = and people ARE stimulating. Is it true, though/then, that extroverts find it 'relaxing' to be with other people?


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## simulatedworld

so so so INFP

I don't know where you guys are getting Ti or Fe. She's really Fi.


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## Kate7

Thanks simulatedworld  Why am I so definitely Fi? I would say I COME ACROSS a lot more like infp so you MAY be right .. I just want to know why you think that? 

Fi is a hard thing to understand, I am realising. Also a hard thing to pin down as looking like any one thing since it will necessarily look very individual - will be expressed according to the values/feelings/inner reactions etc. of the individual. The thing that makes me DOUBT that my dominant function is Fi, is that I don't have 'gut feelings' and I judge things based on principle. I don't 'honour the individual self above all things' as it says in one of the infp descriptions - I actually think that would be insane. Rather I honour reality/truth above all things, A VALUABLE PART OF WHICH is the individual self of course - but still, what is 'right and true' should be the decisive factor in things, with individual taste/desire having to 'fit into' that. Not the other way round.

So, with my own feelings/values/instincts (or anyone else's) - I examine them to see if they fit in with reality, truth and goodness. I make my decisions based on that, not based on 'what I want' or on any kind of 'gut feeling'. Is this a good example of Fi, or of Ti??? Or of something else entirely :wink:


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## Sunrain

Kate7 said:


> Thanks Sunrain. Your questions were good. It was easier to answer 'what do I find relaxing' than 'what re-charges your batteries' because when I think of re-charging, I think of stimulation, not relaxation = and people ARE stimulating. Is it true, though/then, that extroverts find it 'relaxing' to be with other people?


Yes, people calm me down and re-charge my batteries. I don't think of reading or going on a walk alone to be relaxing, it's more what I do when I've stored up energy from people and I have enough energy and enough things to think about to spend a bit of time alone, but the whole time I'm alone I'm thinking about who I'm going to talk to about what I did today. When I was forced to spend almost two months almost completely alone once it was driving me so insane I was keeping a diary of my day every day and writing to it as it it were a person... Ultimately, what I do to re-charge my batteries is go on a big night out with as many people as possible. 

As regards Fi, does the statement "I have to be true to myself, to my gut instincts, my inner identity" mean something to you? I do think that if you had a dominant Fi you would "just know", because you would "feel it"


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## kibou

Kate, can we see a video of you talking? That would be much easier to use as a basis for typing.


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## Kate7

Thanks AGAIN Sunrain  Well I guess i am an introvert then - albeit a friendly one. As for the Fi thing - well no, I really don't have that 'inner identity' thing ... can't you tell by how LONG this is taking (and how keen I am to find it!!) Maybe I am Fe. Maybe I am infj? This is a possibility but the MASSIVE problem with this is that I have NO foresight. I analyse what was and what is in order to understand the bigger picture, but I don't 'just know', which I think is an introverted intuiting thing, right? So again, I am left with intp again, despite every male T on this place thinking for sure I am NOT  I am going to put up a video as Kibou suggested, of me talking, maybe that will help. I'll post the link here. Thanks heaps though so far ...


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## Kate7

Hi Kibou - okay, I'll do a quick video and post the link here. Just gotta figure out how ... :wink:


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## vocalist

One thing that might be making it more difficult to type yourself is simply your age. From my understanding, the older a person gets, the harder they will be to type simply because more of their functions are likely to be well-developed.

Something that might help you would be to look at yourself as you were as a young adult, rather than as you are right now. What were your dominant functions in your early twenties?

Also, if you haven't already, you might look at the articles in each type forum, titled "The xxxx Child."


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## simulatedworld

Kate7 said:


> Thanks simulatedworld  Why am I so definitely Fi? I would say I COME ACROSS a lot more like infp so you MAY be right .. I just want to know why you think that?


NTPs are almost never as bubbly/enthusiastic as you. Until I read the part where you said you feel most at home on your own, I was going to say ENFP.



Kate7 said:


> Fi is a hard thing to understand, I am realising. Also a hard thing to pin down as looking like any one thing since * it will necessarily look very individual - will be expressed according to the values/feelings/inner reactions etc. of the individual*. The thing that makes me DOUBT that my dominant function is Fi, is that I don't have 'gut feelings' and *I judge things based on principle*. I don't 'honour the individual self above all things' as it says in one of the infp descriptions - I actually think that would be insane. *Rather I honour reality/truth above all things*, A VALUABLE PART OF WHICH is the individual self of course - but still, what is 'right and true' should be the decisive factor in things, with individual taste/desire having to 'fit into' that. Not the other way round.
> 
> So, with my own feelings/values/instincts (or anyone else's) - I examine them to *see if they fit in with reality, truth and goodness*. I make my decisions based on that, not based on 'what I want' or on any kind of 'gut feeling'. Is this a good example of Fi, or of Ti??? Or of something else entirely :wink:


Bolded parts are all very Fi. The "gut feelings" thing is more related to Se, imo, which is not one of your preferred function attitudes if you are an INFP.

Also, not everything in every type description you read will fit you. Those descriptions are very generalized guesses based on whoever the author knows in real life that happens to be (or that the author believes to be) that type.

When you say you "honor reality/truth above all things", I think this is incredibly Fi because your sense of what constitutes reality/truth is so ingrained into the way you understand yourself and the world around you that it seems inherently obvious. You may not realize it, but by assuming that your definition of "reality/truth" is actually the real truth, you _are_ honoring the individual self above all things.

The way they worded it sounds a little selfish, but it's not. Being FiTe (as opposed to TiFe) just means that you draw your conception of morality/ethics from inside yourself, and your conception of logic/impersonal reasoning via objective means from the world around you.

If you were a TiFe type (xxTP or xxFJ), you would do the opposite, drawing logic/impersonal reasoning from inside yourself and morality/ethics from the objective, collective consensus of your cultural groups.

As it is I am 99% certain you are an NFP, and if you are as internally focused as you say you are, I don't see how anything but INFP could make sense.

You are almost definitely _not_ INTP.


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## Sunrain

She's definitely not ENFP. She doesn't sound anything like me...she doesn't express herself like an ENFP ... I really actually don't think she's INFP either... I still think INTP, sorry ;-)

But I think yes great idea for the "young adult' thing - what were you like in your early twenties?


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## Kate7

Thanks again guys. 

simulated world: your explanation of Ti/Fe vs Fi/Te was really helpful. I DO take my logical info from the world around - certainly it's not in my head! The world around - evidence etc - grounds me and makes sense of everything. Still not entirely sure about the idea that I draw my conception of morality/ethics within myself though - I would say I draw that from outside too, though maybe that has only come in later years ...as a child I was very sensitive and emotionally aware ... it was only, lost and confused as a teenager, that I began on my search for 'evidence' :wink: ... all of which leads to the answer to your question as to what was I like in my early 20's. Well actually I was already a mother then, so growing up quite quickly and using Te a lot - organising my life, getting things settled and structured in my head and around me ... possibly using Si a lot too as doing a lot of learning from 'those who had gone before' and tried and tested ways of doing things. Previous to that, during my late teens, I had been more of a tag along than a take charge - enjoying exploring and experiencing, intense on myself, but not really intense on others. Worried about internal questions but not the future, or practical things. Motherhood came as a huge relief ... and grounding ... and adventure in discovery! I was still intense but it came OUT more to do the best I could for others. Not sure if I'm explaining myself well???? When I did the Myers Briggs test for the first time though, I was 25, and I came up ESTJ. At the time i knew it was wrong but I kind of took it on anyway - played the 'practical' role, but it never felt right, I felt disappointed and lost. 

These days - 15 years later with much older kids - I seem to be much more like my teenage self in a way only a LOT more confident and free and happy and not confused! It's like I can relax back again into my head, my thoughts, enjoying the moment and exploring the deep issues ... I can allow myself to be absent minded again! 

One of the things that gave me a clue that I was NOT an estj, is that every estj I have met is the kind of person who can actually scare me! And I think I puzzle them somewhat too. They are intriqued by me at first and like my confident insights and well thought out applications, but as soon as they DISAGREE with me (which doesn't take long) they think 'darn it, the woman's a fool' and withdraw, confused or exasperated. And if I ever suggest to them that I too am an estj, they say 'no, you're not ... I don't know what you are, but you're not an estj!' But I am not a fool either ... 

Is this helping? Any more questions/clarifications needed?

Thanks btw sunrain for confirming that I am NOT an enfp - I always wonder, but I'm not, am I!!! I know too many of you amazingly imaginative and generous people to not realilse that. But is it possible to be enthusiastic and good with people and STILL be an Infp??? The only infp's I know are much quieter than I ever was ... I think? I am FAR more willing to express myself than they, I think?? Will post up video tomorrow as maybe this will really sinch it. Thanks again ...


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## pro at filing

Kate7 said:


> When I did the Myers Briggs test for the first time though, I was 25, and I came up ESTJ. At the time i knew something was wrong but I kind of took it on anyway - played the 'practical' role, but I knew it wasn't right really. As my kids have got older and less needing of my organisation, I have totally relaxed back into my head, my thoughts, enjoying the moment and exploring the deep issues ... allowed myself to be absent minded again! One of the things that gave me a clue that I was NOT an estj, is that every estj I have met is the kind of person who can actually scare me! They are intriqued by me at first and like my confident insights and well thought out applications, but as soon as they DISAGREE with me (which doesn't take long) they think 'darn it, the woman's a fool' and withdraw, puzzled.


See, if you were an INTP, you probably wouldn't have typed that up, but rather a referral to an earlier post of yours. Maybe containing just the slightest hint of sarcasm.

:wink: not quite serious


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## Kate7

Are you still here pro-at-filing - I'm impressed! :wink: You are right, I do keep repeating myself!!! It just takes me longer to find the old comment I made and figure out how to make it come up as a quote (nope, still haven't done that) than it does to type it all up again ... for the new people, you understand eh? (hint of sarcasm back at ya


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## Ćerulean

Welcome to the forum... but I guess you already knew that. lol


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## Kate7

Thanks Res :happy: Yes, I have been thoroughly welcomed! Now tell me, how did you become a VIP member?? ... and also, wouldn't it be good to have a smiley for 'curious'?


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## Ćerulean

Get a post count of 1000 to get VIP status and a black username. Nifty huh?

Sure, why not; go on about your journey to 1000 posts by creating a thread in the Support & Suggestions forum asking for a curious icon. Who knows... they may be curious why they didn't put one there in the first place. :wink:


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## simulatedworld

Sunrain said:


> She's definitely not ENFP. She doesn't sound anything like me...


It's rather self-centered to assume everyone who shares your psychological type preferences is going to sound like you, isn't it? :dry:




Sunrain said:


> she doesn't express herself like an ENFP ... I really actually don't think she's INFP either... I still think INTP, sorry ;-)


Where do you see evidence of Ti and/or Fe?

I think she expresses herself quite like an NFP. Note the constant use of smilies, bubbly/happy language and very strong effort to thank everyone individually and make sure people feel good about having helped her. She's clearly very cognizant of the emotional impact of her words on others, which is _hardly_ characteristic of INTPs.

Also note the obvious idealism...clearly both Ti and Fi have strong principles about which they are idealistic, but there's a difference:

Fi: "I would never knowingly spread evil or harm another living thing"
Ti: "I would never knowingly spread inaccurate or misleading information"

See what I mean? Not to imply that Ti-ers want to spread evil or that Fi-ers want to spread misinformation, but they focus on different areas.


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## Kate7

Yes. I often wish I WASN'T, as you put it, 'cognizant of the emotional impact' of my words, but I am. It can make things less fluid somehow. So that makes me F, right? Yet SURELY everyone is aware of their impact and introverts in particular will take time to ADD such things as smiley faces to make sure they aren't hurting anyone's feelings (even if they're not sure if they are or not?)

Blah blah, I'm making a meal out of this though. I shall put a video up of myself tomorrow and would be v. grateful for you guys to all watch it and decide if I am enfp, infp or something else entirely ...


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## simulatedworld

Kate7 said:


> Yes. I often wish I WASN'T, as you put it, 'cognizant of the emotional impact' of my words, but I am. It can make things less fluid somehow. So that makes me F, right? Yet SURELY everyone is aware of their impact and introverts in particular will take time to ADD such things as smiley faces to make sure they aren't hurting anyone's feelings (even if they're not sure if they are or not?)
> 
> Blah blah, I'm making a meal out of this though. I shall put a video up of myself tomorrow and would be v. grateful for you guys to all watch it and decide if I am enfp, infp or something else entirely ...


Being cognizant of the emotional impact of your words on others doesn't guarantee that you're an F type, but it does strongly suggest that you have a well-developed F function, which is very unusual for INTPs.

And no, not everyone is aware of their impact! A lot of people really don't have much of a clue how they're affecting others, myself included. I have to really focus and force myself to pay attention to that sort of thing or I just miss it entirely.

Taking time to make sure one isn't hurting anyone's feelings is unrelated to introversion. Have you ever talked to an INTJ? ^_^

In any event being so aware of the emotions of others that sometimes you wish you weren't is so so so Fi. You literally can't stop empathizing to save your life.

There's nothing Ti about this at all. Frankly I think INTP is a horrible fit for you.


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## pro at filing

simulatedworld said:


> In any event being so aware of the emotions of others that sometimes you wish you weren't is so so so Fi. You literally can't stop empathizing to save your life.


Hm, I would've thought this was more Fe, and that Fi users would be more likely to be able to distance themselves from a specific person (though it seems to me that INFPs are the masters of a kind of "global empathy", as in for the world at large). But if I draw the parallel to myself, as an INTP I have a large capacity for understanding (and recognizing as in its own way valid) various opinions that someone may have, maybe that's the T equivalent to empathy? And since I have Ti, if what I just said is the case, I think I may be able to see where you're coming from with that statement.
Thoughts? Did that make sense?


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## Vaka

pro at filing said:


> Hm, I would've thought this was more Fe, and that Fi users would be more likely to be able to distance themselves from a specific person (though it seems to me that INFPs are the masters of a kind of "global empathy", as in for the world at large). But if I draw the parallel to myself, as an INTP I have a large capacity for understanding (and recognizing as in its own way valid) various opinions that someone may have, maybe that's the T equivalent to empathy? And since I have Ti, if what I just said is the case, I think I may be able to see where you're coming from with that statement.
> Thoughts? Did that make sense?


I've been trying to understand Fi in more detail. From my current understanding, Fi-users wish to perfectly understand people on a human level. And they also want to understand themselves. Understanding themselves allows them to empathize with others...It's something personal and human.
I think that Ti, in contrast, makes you want to clearly understand ideas and concepts. In that way, you may also display tendencies of trying to understand people, but it'd be more of a logical process. And you may be more aware of 'injustice', I suppose.
Both Ti and Fi want to understand things before they make judgments. 
With people I'm close to, I may not really be able to clearly understand some of their reactions to things. But my Fe will kick into gear in the way of not wanting them to be unhappy and even trying to find a way to make them happy.


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## pro at filing

Lara Croft said:


> I've been trying to understand Fi in more detail. From my current understanding, Fi-users wish to perfectly understand people on a human level. And they also want to understand themselves. Understanding themselves allows them to empathize with others...It's something personal and human.


Makes sense. Just to clarify, I was definitely not saying that Fi users can't/don't want to empathize much, rather that not being able to help oneself from empathizing is something I would expect more from Fe users. I could be wrong.
But probably emotional stability (i.e. being low on neuroticism) is more deciding of whether a person with an F preference will be able to control empathy or in any case use it productively.



Lara Croft said:


> I think that Ti, in contrast, makes you want to clearly understand ideas and concepts. In that way, you may also display tendencies of trying to understand people, but it'd be more of a logical process.


Yea, that's where I was going with this.


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## simulatedworld

pro at filing said:


> Hm, I would've thought this was more Fe, and that Fi users would be more likely to be able to distance themselves from a specific person (though it seems to me that INFPs are the masters of a kind of "global empathy", as in for the world at large). But if I draw the parallel to myself, as an INTP I have a large capacity for understanding (and recognizing as in its own way valid) various opinions that someone may have, maybe that's the T equivalent to empathy? And since I have Ti, if what I just said is the case, I think I may be able to see where you're coming from with that statement.
> Thoughts? Did that make sense?


Both Fe and Fi users seem to be good at reading the emotions of others. I think Fe is more related to sympathy for Fi is more directly empathetic.

Here's a quote from an article I found here
about the difference between the two:




> Sympathy exists when the feelings or emotions of one person give rise to similar feelings in another person, creating a state of shared feeling. In common usage, sympathy is usually the sharing of unhappiness or sufferring, but it can also refer to sharing other (positive) emotions as well. In a broader sense, it can refer to the sharing of political or ideological sentiments, such as in the phrase "a communist sympathiser".


This seems to fit with Fe, as Fe users tend to mirror the feelings of those around them. Since they draw their emotional ideals from the external world, creating a sense of cultural/political/ideological/moral commonality between parties comes naturally.




> Empathy is a much deeper sense of emotion and a sense that you can feel another's feelings and state of being along with feeling sympathetic to their issue.


This seems to fit better with Fi. Fi users are often able to see things in terms of basic human needs, so it's very difficult for them to _stop_ empathizing even if they want to.




> Sympathy:I am sorry for your loss. What can I do to help you during this difficult time?
> 
> Empathy: I feel and understand your pain; my grandmother passed away last year as well.
> 
> Sympathy: A doctor may feel sympathy and understands a patient's illness and try to alleviate the pain, but she may not feel his/her distress and pain.
> 
> Empathy: A cancer support group can empathize with the radiation therapy of a member and understand his/her fear because they have experienced the procedure as well.


So yes, empathy/Fi is deeper because each introverted function is more deeply and narrowly focused than its extroverted counterpart. Sympathy/Fe is broader and can apply more easily to more situations without directly feeling the emotions in question, but doesn't have the same degree of emotional depth as Fi.


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## Kate7

Interesting stuff guys but how the F*** (sorry to be rude but it's seriously annoying me) do I pick up a bit of your text to quote you from? If I highlight and then click 'quote', it just picks up the whole text???

Aniyway ... I am considering this difference between Fe and Fi. It seems to me that Fe people are more drawn to the immediate FEELINGS of the person - they feel bad when others feel bad etc. and thus tend to move quite quickly 'toward 'making people feel happy' - as you described Lara Croft. Whereas Fi people are more drawn to the underlying reasons why people are feeling unhappy - they look to the 'deeper picture' more. This sometimes makes Fi people SEEM less sympathetic as they don't jump to put plasters on thngs when trying to help someone.

simulated world: That empathy/sympathy delineation was REALLY helpful. Yet for me, it is still a tough one too see in myself. I definitely don't do sympathy very well. If someone is hurt or crying that can just as easily annoy me as make me feel bad for them ... depending on how well I 'believe in' their pain - awful eh!!! (but some people are serious moaners and attention seekers!!) Yet I will still hold back my instincts there and try to take in what they are going through as I know my own experience is limited and I can be just as blind and self centred as anybody ... so I guess I do the Fi or Ti thing of 'trying to understand'. I definitely related more to your 'empathy' descriptions - they sounded deeper ... more the kind of thing I would naturally care about. So that puts Fe out for me, would you say? If so, things are getting clearer ...

And was it you, simulated world, that said Fi people can't stop empathising to save themself? Well that made me laugh, seriously though - it's a real problem! If I'm sitting with someone trying to express my own point of view .. when they start telling me theirs I take it in so much that it's hard for me to hold on to my own original point. I feel what they are feeling, see what they are seeing, and can lose touch with myself. All this is great when it's all about THEM - and me helping/understanging THEM - but when it needs to be a little more two way, things can get confusing ... I confuse them as much as anything because I seem to be always changing my mind ... adapting I suppose? Makes me a relational P, right? Or is this more Fe - aaargh!!!

pro-at-filing: You descriped infp's as having this kind of 'global empathy' ... good description! I totally relate to that! The world and people in general touch me ... I kinda FEEL the whole world, you know? And I often feel like I truly love everyone - the man at the gas station, the lady outside walking her dog etc ... when of course I don't - and many Fe types I know would consider me positively neglectful of neighbours and friendships in general ... and it's true :frustrating: I think I MUST be Fi ... What do YOU think? You've been here longest (!), are you stlll convinced I'm infp (ish, plus, whatever) or are you wavering along with me ... hmmm, signs of empathy in you here I think! :wink:

Sunrain: Why are you so sure I am not infp or even enfp? I am not sure either so ... if your unsureness correlates with mine we can be confused together! :crazy: No but seriously, all help gratefully recieved ... I help LOTS of other people with this system so am attempting to have some integrity and recognise it for myself also ...


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## Robopop

simulatedworld said:


> Fi: "I would never knowingly spread evil or harm another living thing"
> Ti: "I would never knowingly spread inaccurate or misleading information"


These two statements are not mutually exclusive, many people could very well say they are concerned with both. I think she has not given enough information to decide whether she is Fi or Ti, could she be any other function combination, there could be other major influences on why people hold their views, attitudes, and values besides their dominant internal jugding preference.

And I still have a hard time imagining Fi(and Ni), I know what Te looks like(I've been around plenty of xxTJs and the military aka Te central) and I find it hard to deal with because it doesn't seem to take EVERYTHING into account.


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## Kate7

So ask me some questions Robopop ... what information do you NEED to discover my preferences????


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## pro at filing

simulatedworld said:


> Sympathy exists when the feelings or emotions of one person give rise to similar feelings in another person, creating a state of shared feeling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sympathy: A doctor may feel sympathy and understands a patient's illness and try to alleviate the pain, but she may not feel his/her distress and pain.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sympathy/Fe is broader and can apply more easily to more situations without directly feeling the emotions in question, but doesn't have the same degree of emotional depth as Fi.
Click to expand...

Sorry simulatedworld, but that description didn't do much for me ... The first statement seems to contradict the ones below it (except maybe for the "state of being" part). My ENFJ sister told me once that when someone tells her about themselves, she feels what they feel.



Kate7 said:


> It seems to me that Fe people are more drawn to the immediate FEELINGS of the person - they feel bad when others feel bad etc. and thus tend to move quite quickly 'toward 'making people feel happy' - as you described Lara Croft. Whereas Fi people are more drawn to the underlying reasons why people are feeling unhappy - they look to the 'deeper picture' more.


This description was a little more helpful for me.


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## Robopop

Kate7 said:


> So ask me some questions Robopop ... what information do you NEED to discover my preferences????


I didn't read the rest of the thread, now Fi makes more sense, is it me or do people with strong Fi seem to be able to identify with a little bit of everything, like they feel like they can be any personality type and they have a hard time being penned down, is this Fi empathy? No offense but most of the other personality types to me seem more sure of their types than NFPs.

Sim is good at typing people but I don't know his method, what is he hiding, I really don't have many experiences with other types besides the SJs and SPs.


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## pro at filing

Kate7 said:


> pro-at-filing: You descriped infp's as having this kind of 'global empathy' ... good description! I totally relate to that! The world and people in general touch me ... I kinda FEEL the whole world, you know? And I often feel like I truly love everyone - the man at the gas station, the lady outside walking her dog etc ... when of course I don't - and many Fe types I know would consider me positively neglectful of neighbours and friendships in general ... and it's true :frustrating: I think I MUST be Fi ... What do YOU think? You've been here longest (!), are you stlll convinced I'm infp (ish, plus, whatever) or are you wavering along with me ... hmmm, signs of empathy in you here I think! :wink:



I would say you're nearest to INFP. But after you said that just didn't fit, I kinda stopped thinking it made any sense to pin you down onto a single type. That's why I told you about the percentages thing. And sure, I couldn't be bothered to think about actualy percentages in your shoes either, but I still think you should rather ask yourself what types you are *between*, rather than what type you are. The only clear preference you have I think is N. The other three will be somewhere between mild and non-existent.
If you're doing this in part so that you can stand as an example for people you tell about the MBTI (which I do too, of course), then it makes even more sense: imagine you tell someone you're INFP, then they go and read the INFP profile, and think "well, some stuff seems to fit, but it's not much, this system seems kinda useless". If you tell them something like "Eh well I'm a tricky case, kind of in-between on several preferences, but nearest to INFP. But most people fit into their types in a clearer way", you may be doing the corresponding people more of a favor ...


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## vocalist

The following quote is from a post of mine in another thread, but it describes my early experiences with Fe (auxiliary function), before I "grew into" it and learned to use it rather than letting it use me.



> But for better or for worse, after that experience, my Extraverted Feeling function was wide awake, and it troubled me many times throughout my high school years. I attached myself like a magnet to several people who were deeply troubled and tried all I could to help them; sometimes the best I could do, though, was listen; and when I had to absorb their troubles without being able to actually do anything concrete to help them, it was almost more than I could bear. My personal life was good and wonderful, and yet I got myself really depressed about life because of my friends' problems, and I was failing to separate my own thoughts and feelings from theirs. It was a dark time, and I remember spending many an afternoon after school in my room, sobbing and crying for no apparent reason, trying to release myself from emotions that shouldn't have even been mine to begin with.


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## Kate7

Thanks Vocalist, that was really helpful  I don't think I am an Fe type, based on what you've said. I don't, never have, 'attached myself'' to people like that - Iam actually more detached really or rather, if something someone has said touches me or I feel for them, I detach myself a little to think about it - to put it in global perspective, you know? Often I will spend a long time thinking about a problem someone has and later on will offer my thoughts to them ... sometimes only to find they have moved on and this is no longer a problem! But a sadness someone I love has will still affect me deeply - I find it hard not to care and be affected by their emotion - it just doesn't make me cling to them, rather it makes me withdraw to solve. DOes that make sense - is that a good example of Fi at work ????


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## pro at filing

Kate7 said:


> Thanks Vocalist, that was really helpful  I don't think I am an Fe type, based on what you've said. I don't, never have, 'attached myself'' to people like that - Iam actually more detached really or rather, if something someone has said touches me or I feel for them, I detach myself a little to think about it - to put it in global perspective, you know? Often I will spend a long time thinking about a problem someone has and later on will offer my thoughts to them ... sometimes only to find they have moved on and this is no longer a problem! But a sadness someone I love has will still affect me deeply - I find it hard not to care and be affected by their emotion - it just doesn't make me cling to them, rather it makes me withdraw to solve. DOes that make sense - is that a good example of Fi at work ????


Bear in mind that you will have a fair amount of T in the mix, which other feelers may not have.


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## pro at filing

simulatedworld said:


> Intro to Function Theory + More Detailed Descriptions of Each Function
> 
> Public Service Announcement: Five Common Functional Misconceptions


Very nice. One major point that was making this discussion difficult was that Kate does or did a fair amount of stuff that looks like other functions, e.g. scheduling for the kids. Thinking about functions as worldviews rather than skill sets cleared this up for me quite nicely.




simulatedworld said:


> Kate7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gosh, okay. That kind of hurt
> 
> 
> 
> Why?
Click to expand...

I don't know about you guys, but this question interests me. Initial, purely non-judgemental ideas are:



simulatedworld said:


> What you're doing is a defense mechanism.


Noone likes being told they're using defense mechanisms, that's in the nature of defense mechanisms right?
I imagine that may especially go for people with strong Fi, as it's essentially saying "you are oblivious to your own true feelings", when being aware of the nature of their feelings is what they strive for.



simulatedworld said:


> You're only granting value to personality categorization insofar as _you_ remain immune to it. Ne likes the idea that everything might be interconnected, but Fi is worried that fitting into a box might threaten its ability to feel totally unique and individualized.


How about this: telling an xNFP that their pursuit of personal values makes them selfish is like telling an xNTP that their pursuit of objective truth makes them incompetent.


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## pro at filing

Kate7 said:


> This is now really confusing. Am I an Fe or an Fi user??? I So here is my video - it is shite, too dark and I didnt' know what to say but maybe it will help??? I am more confident than this in real life as I found talking to a camera REALLY WIERD


Your mannerisms/demeanor are pretty much like I imagined them from your posts haha


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## Kate7

Well craziness is a little relative isn't it? I seem crazy to some, yet not to others. Also I get stimulated to craziness in the presence of certain others! But generally, I am a little more serious than that. Yes, am more serious and down to earth than Ne leading types generally.


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## Kate7

thanks for this, have more to say later but gotta dash .. burnt the porridge already!


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## Kate7

pro at filing said:


> Your mannerisms/demeanor are pretty much like I imagined them from your posts haha


Great! I had to resist the temptation to take it again in a better light but I think the more I did it, the more unnatural it would get so ...


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## Kate7

But did the video help/confirm with typing me? I have to say I am still not sure (even though I DO understand it's only a GENERAL thing). I am beginning to realise how annoying my confusion is for Ti types who think they have spelled it out. And they have! It's just that if I don't RELATE to what they are saying - if I don't think, yes that's what I do!! Then I find it hard to even see! For example - I know I don't worry about my own uniqueness. I don't try to stand out or want to be 'different'.

Please clarify what it means to live 'by my own personal morality''. All I know is this: I analyse things from various other viewpoints in order to decide things. One of these viewpoints would be my beliefs/convictions as to what is right to do/ true about life as I have observed/experienced/learned about it so far (which includes the influence of many outside sources of course!), another would be the patterns I see in life and creation, another would be 'what is practical', though to a lesser extent and subject to the first two. My own 'feelings' may motivate this process, but they don't DECIDE it. In fact, things are never entirely decided because there is always something new to learn - I am always adding new information in. Is that Fi???

Anyway, I am now reading through all that brilliant stuff simulated world has written about the functions. I am pretty sure that will decide it for me as I really understand it - for once! 

sim - you should try and get your explanations out there for people - the only cognitive processess stuff you can find on the internet is not nearly as clear as this.


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## Empurple

ENFP. The ones I know are into anything that catches their eye/imagination and therefore seem to develop all their functions quickly, even their inferior Si. They don't like to be narrowed down (liking freedom), and yet can be very decisive if it seems that freedom is threatened... Just when they seem locked in to a niche, they principally get bored and go in a different direction than you'd ever expect.


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## Kate7

Okay, for anyone who has followed this and is interested in how I came to a conclusion finally (as finally as any NP can anyway) – I offer this.

It was because of the way I dress. I just couldn’t see how I was using Fi in all the other decisions in my life but in terms of how I dress, it was clear. I choose clothes that feel like ‘me’. Not that are suitable in terms of practicality or social convention or effect on others. Just clothes that feel like me and suit my mood or the ‘story’ am playing out in my head at that moment. And I have always been this way since a little child as early as I can remember. 

As a young child I wore scruffy old clothes and boys shoes. I just liked them. My mum always wanted me to wear quality girls clothes but I never felt like ‘me’ in them. Looking back now I realise I wanted ‘ boy’ type adventures so the clothes I chose reflected that even when there were no adventures in sight ... 

At 14, I wore a bright magenta jumper to my grandad’s funeral service. At the time it just felt right, I didn’t analyse it. Looking back now, however, I see that it reflected my feelings about the event – I didn’t see why I should wear black when this whole thing had been so magical and God had clearly prepared him for going to ‘heaven’ and now he was actually there! This seemed quite wonderful and exciting to me! So, whilst I felt all the sadness and cried plenty, still I felt ‘right’ in my pink jumper all day – like I was celebrating and FEELING him, and life, and God. If others had shown that they were upset with me I would have felt bad as I would not have wanted to offend anyone but thankfully, nobody did, or else, I didn’t notice!!

Also, I carried plastic bags around with me as a teenager because I didn’t like handbags. Handbags were for my mum’s generation and did not feel like ‘me’at all! Looking back I realise that I could not see myself as grown up yet or identify fully with the grown up world. Still, I was out and about and independent to some degree and needed somewhere to put my money and keys and all the bits of paper I used to write things down on .. and food etc. used plastic bags and felt fine doing that. Now I look back and think I must have looked CRAZY!! But then, I didn’t notice. That was, to my mind, a practical decision – but it was definitely NOT an Fe one and was MOTIVATED by a very personal feeling of comfort in how I chose NOT to express myself. Unconsciously, I would simply not want to appear on the outside, something I was not on the inside.

I still feel the same today, only the less hang-ups I have and the more in reality I am, the more ‘normal’ I look, quite naturally! Though I still have to change it up every so often and, if I am honest, would HATE to end up looking TOO normal :happy:

As for the ENFP thing - well, I am just NOT a 'leading Ne'type. I know too many of them and, while I can amp it up for a bit, I'm just not like that all the time. I NEED time to put all the possibilities I pick up through the Fi process ... this is just not an option for me, whereas it seems to be for them ...

So big thanks, everyone who has helped. I will now put INFP on my profile ...


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## simulatedworld

pro at filing said:


> Very nice. One major point that was making this discussion difficult was that Kate does or did a fair amount of stuff that looks like other functions, e.g. scheduling for the kids. Thinking about functions as worldviews rather than skill sets cleared this up for me quite nicely.


Scheduling for the kids probably has to do with Te. NFPs usually develop this later in life.



pro at filing said:


> I don't know about you guys, but this question interests me. Initial, purely non-judgemental ideas are:
> 
> 
> Noone likes being told they're using defense mechanisms, that's in the nature of defense mechanisms right?
> I imagine that may especially go for people with strong Fi, as it's essentially saying "you are oblivious to your own true feelings", when being aware of the nature of their feelings is what they strive for.


Fair point...I'm not really sure how else to explain in this case, though. A lot of times people don't know their type because they're genuinely unaware of their own motivations. "I think personality categories are cool but I'm too special to fit into any of them" is classic Fi+Ne. Since this mindset places such a premium on individuality, considering that you might be sensitive to suggestions that you are not quite as unique as you thought is going to be kind of a threatening idea.

I don't hunt down NFPs and force this on them, but when one of them shows up asking for a typological explanation I don't really know how else to get the idea across without pointing out the person's biases directly.




pro at filing said:


> How about this: telling an xNFP that their pursuit of personal values makes them selfish is like telling an xNTP that their pursuit of objective truth makes them incompetent.


I don't think I ever said that the pursuit of personal values makes them selfish; I said that it can sometimes appear this way _from an Fe perspective_, in order to illustrate the differences between the two.

Admittedly it took me a long time not to view Fi as selfish, because I am an Fe type. I still struggle with really appreciating the value in it and trying not to consider it inferior to my perspective, but I can never _really_ get it firsthand without being an Fi type.


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## vocalist

Yup. This paragraph cinched it for me:



> Please clarify what it means to live 'by my own personal morality''. All I know is this: I analyse things from various other viewpoints in order to decide things. One of these viewpoints would be my beliefs/convictions as to what is right to do/ true about life as I have observed/experienced/learned about it so far (which includes the influence of many outside sources of course!), another would be the patterns I see in life and creation, another would be 'what is practical', though to a lesser extent and subject to the first two. My own 'feelings' may motivate this process, but they don't DECIDE it. In fact, things are never entirely decided because there is always something new to learn - I am always adding new information in. Is that Fi???


Fi and Ne working together  And the highlighted blue part is what makes you a P. And the green seems to be your Te, subject to Fi and Ne. But, I don't see any indications of Si above, which should be your tertiary if you were INFP, so... *shrug*


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## Vaka

I don't think the blue part was P in general, I think that was more Ne-ish...possibly working with Ji.


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## Kate7

simulatedworld said:


> Fair point...I'm not really sure how else to explain in this case, though. A lot of times people don't know their type because they're genuinely unaware of their own motivations. "I think personality categories are cool but I'm too special to fit into any of them" is classic Fi+Ne. Since this mindset places such a premium on individuality, considering that you might be sensitive to suggestions that you are not quite as unique as you thought is going to be kind of a threatening idea.
> 
> I don't hunt down NFPs and force this on them, but when one of them shows up asking for a typological explanation I don't really know how else to get the idea across without pointing out the person's biases directly.


Let me help you with this. 

I find that it is wisest in general when helping people discover sometimes uncomfortable truths about themselves to state what you think as questions or suggestions – thereby leaving it to the person’s own conscience to acknowledge the truth, rather than forcing it on them (and assuming you are right every time ). Something like: “Do you think your natural ability to notice and value the individual is overriding your ability to acknowledge and value the group – and to embrace similarities as well as differences?” That may not be the best wayto to put it but a question, anyway – a suggestion - leaves the person free and prevents them from feeling/being controlled by you. 

Another thing: Another thing you might want to consider is that many INF's – especially those over 30 - were not raised in a society/family that thought much of them. Many of them, in fact, were made to feel useless as a pose to unique. In these cases, if you say ‘you just think you’re so great’ – you would just be plain wrong . Yet if they protested – as I did – you would only think this proved your point even more. For me, finding that I DO fit, that I DO have useful talents (and being clear as to what exactly they are!) is a great joy. It does not threaten me or make me feel less special, quite the opposite. And I am sure I am not all that unusual in this.

I hope this helps  Thanks again ...


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## Kate7

I didn't mention that part of the patterns I see in life and creation would be very much taking into account history, those who have gone before, the wisdom of the ancients!, good and useful traditions/habits, things I remember as being good from my own childhood etc. I think that is a sign of Si, right? If so, I can see that I use it very much like my left hand, which would be consistent with infp. The reason I dont'think I am enfp is that I am just not as creative as them, or as zany. I think a lot more and the creativity I have serves whatever I am thinking about (and consider important) not the other way round. I am just not RANDOMLY creative, but more PURPOSEFULLY creative, you know? 

And thanks heaps vocalist and lara croft - you have been so helpful!!


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