# starting to think I'm unemployable...



## fihe (Aug 30, 2012)

I graduated this past May with a BA in history and a social studies teacher certification. I'm currently doing per diem substitute teaching while keeping my job at a drugstore. the problem is that, even though I enjoy substitute teaching, I really don't think I want to be a full-time teacher anymore. I've witnessed the problems that go on in an educational setting and I just don't want to deal with them. a lot of politics and scapegoating.

the problem is that I don't really have any experience in any other field. I did apply for a job as a bank teller about a month ago and was interviewed but wasn't accepted. HR called me again a few days ago but I didn't reply because even though I think I may still want to work in a bank, I feel like perhaps a teller position isn't much better than the kind of work I have now. I've tried applying for teaching jobs just for the hell of it, and also applied for a few administrative assistant jobs. no answer from anyone. there are jobs outside of the educational field that I'm interested in, and even if they don't say they require a certain amount of experience, they say it's "preferred". but I don't have said experience, so what am I to do? in fact, how does anyone move into another job industry other than what they've studied for in school? how are they able to acquire the skills necessary if they've never had any previous training?

I'm starting to think something is wrong with me, but I don't know what to do. after all, if I can't get a good job, I might as well just die, because I can't depend on my parents for money forever and I need to have a job that pays a living wage in order to survive.

I'm not sure if there's something wrong with my résumé or my cover letter, whether it's the way I phrase things or simply a lack of experience in what the hiring managers are looking for. I'd like to ask the PerC community for their advice.


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## Michael Nihil (Sep 21, 2012)

The way I see it, unless you have one or two degrees in a field like one of the hard sciences, Physics or Chemistry, or in a Mathematics or Engineering field, you don't have a lot going for you. Us without those type of qualifications have to eat shit and die, apparently. The humanities majors are all severely undervalued in this society.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

Michael Nihil said:


> The way I see it, unless you have one or two degrees in a field like one of the hard sciences, Physics or Chemistry, or in a Mathematics or Engineering field, you don't have a lot going for you. Us without those type of qualifications have to eat shit and die, apparently. The humanities majors are all severely undervalued in this society.


Pish posh.. humanities degrees are great for getting a career as a waitress.. bike messenger.. jk. : P


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## stephiphi (Mar 30, 2012)

If you don't have formal education, you'll need to show employers that you have the skills that you need to succeed. I feel that there are a lot of self-training options if you buckle down and learn what you need to be marketable. I think IT, HR, and social media are all things you can get into this way.

Try applying for some of those developmental programs at big companies and they'll put you on rotation and teach you how to do the job if you can get in. Since you graduated recently, you're still eligible for many of these and should take the chance before it's gone.


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## fihe (Aug 30, 2012)

Michael Nihil said:


> The way I see it, unless you have one or two degrees in a field like one of the hard sciences, Physics or Chemistry, or in a Mathematics or Engineering field, you don't have a lot going for you. Us without those type of qualifications have to eat shit and die, apparently. The humanities majors are all severely undervalued in this society.


yeah, I was interested in biology in high school and then quickly realized it wasn't for me. but that could be because I had very bad study habits and I did fine in history in college despite hardly ever doing my reading  in college I learned not so much how to do work, but how to trick people into thinking I did work. but I guess that's a good life skill. Lol.



stephiphi said:


> If you don't have formal education, you'll need to show employers that you have the skills that you need to succeed. I feel that there are a lot of self-training options if you buckle down and learn what you need to be marketable. I think IT, HR, and social media are all things you can get into this way.
> 
> Try applying for some of those developmental programs at big companies and they'll put you on rotation and teach you how to do the job if you can get in. Since you graduated recently, you're still eligible for many of these and should take the chance before it's gone.


you mean an internship? my only concern about internships is that most are unpaid, and would probably take up a lot of my time, including taking time away from paid employment. my student loans still need to be paid :\


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## stephiphi (Mar 30, 2012)

fihe said:


> you mean an internship? my only concern about internships is that most are unpaid, and would probably take up a lot of my time, including taking time away from paid employment. my student loans still need to be paid :\


No, I'm not talking about an internship. I'm talking about development programs for new hires like: Leadership Develop Program | careers.jnj.com

Of course, J&J is more selective in general.


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## fihe (Aug 30, 2012)

@stephiphi cool. since I graduated less than a year ago I guess I'll go under "student job seekers". I'm just worried that these types of jobs are flooded with applicants!


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## Morpheus83 (Oct 17, 2008)

Haha!  Yes -- and all those jokes about humanities graduates working at McDonald's. 

(Hey -- I'm entitled to laugh at my own expense )

But seriously -- options can be severely limited for humanities graduates seeking 'lucrative' careers (that is -- any career directly related to a humanities degree). 

I wasn't a great science or maths student -- and I couldn't make a decent potholder in high school woodworking class to save my life. What else can I do, really? 

Imo -- when it comes to pay, you're pretty fortunate if you have decent technical and/or practical skills; tradespeople are in great demand over here.


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## ThatName (Nov 9, 2011)

When I did a career change, I used a functional resume describing paid work, unpaid work, and academic related activities. I put all the information I could think of in my resume to give employers reasons to hire me at entry level. I started to get more responses this way compared to when I used a chronological resume. I would visit an unemployment office for options. Here in florida we have WorkSource.

joining the americorps to pay off school loans is another option...or peace corps


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## MBTI Enthusiast (Jan 29, 2011)

Michael Nihil said:


> The way I see it, unless you have one or two degrees in a field like one of the hard sciences, Physics or Chemistry, or in a Mathematics or Engineering field, you don't have a lot going for you. Us without those type of qualifications have to eat shit and die, apparently. The humanities majors are all severely undervalued in this society.


I just graduated in May with a Master of Engineering degree in Biomedical Engineering and I'm in the same boat as @fihe. :dry:

I think it's just the decrepit state of the economy right now.


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## stephiphi (Mar 30, 2012)

MBTI Enthusiast said:


> I just graduated in May with a Master of Engineering degree in Biomedical Engineering and I'm in the same boat as @fihe. :dry: I think it's just the decrepit state of the economy right now.


 Really?  If you're looking for a change in career direction as fihe is, I know that technology consulting firms like Accenture like to hire newly-graduated engineering majors. You could also look into working for patent law.


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## TheProcrastinatingMaster (Jun 4, 2012)

I didn't even go to university, I still can't get a job. Granted I only started searching a few months ago, but I am starting to feel a little guilty for not having one. I've applied pretty much everywhere as well. Strange, I always though getting a minimum wage job would be easier than this.


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## Mashidar (Oct 4, 2012)

I've worked retail for about 15 years now. At the moment I've been with Walmart for the last 5 years and work as an Assistant Manager. It's not that bad of a gig really and it's something. I'm also 12 credits away from a bachelors degree in Business Admin. But I think I'll stay where I am because of the option of moving higher in the company is there. Worse case one can always start out somewhere like Walmart and with the right drive and work ethic can be promoted fast. I know that they are always looking for people with degree's does not really matter the field but it might be "something" to look at while you decide what you want to do. Also I'd say the interview tends to be where I excel, out of all the jobs I've had in 15 years (about 15, never fired just liked to move around) I think that I've only been turned down by one or two. As hard as times are in the market and in your field, keep a positive outlook and keep trying. My advice is just from my personal experiences so I do wish you luck in whatever field or path you decide to take in the future.


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## fihe (Aug 30, 2012)

hey @Mashidar, today was my first time substitute teaching at an elementary school. (I've always gone either for high school or middle school.) the actual teacher was there, but she had to spend the day moving out of her classroom, so I taught her classes. anyway, she said that she had originally planned to go into another career and graduated from college in 2000. then 9/11 happened and the economy tanked, so she found herself having to change her career path. she stumbled upon teaching and has been doing it for I believe 10 years now. most of that time was with older students but now she's with the elementary school kids. I thought it was interesting to hear how her career path changed like that.

but she said it's true that teaching jobs are currently hard to get. I just hope that I can get some kind of sustainable job very soon. I'm in a great hurry to get my life started. a few times on PerC I've stated that I might as well be dead if I'm not doing anything useful with myself at my age, but I think that having a satisfying career would make my life worth something, so I wouldn't feel this way.


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## Mashidar (Oct 4, 2012)

@fihe I'm sure that you will if you keep looking. My ex's parents are both teachers in middle school, and her father is a coach for the town's high school football team and wrestling team. Teaching is a profession I have lots of respect for and I feel teachers should always be paid more for what they do in general. It's not just the teaching that you do, it's the support that you give people that makes them want to do better. I know my teachers motivated me into computers, and I've learned a lot because of that, yet my path was different because I enjoyed retail so much. Finding something to make your life worth something is a good goal, but if a career does not work out the way you want it to, I'm sure you could find something besides work to give your life some meaning. The funny thing is, meeting random people online you never know if you impact that person's life. But I like to think that we can always find something in life to make things more enjoyable even when things are at their worst.


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## Bear987 (May 13, 2012)

I am looking for work at the moment too. I guess the job market does not favor employees at the moment. There's less work than there are people willing to work. As a consequence, employers can pick and choose any way they like. The country that I live in has laws that prohibit discriminating possible employees on their age or sex (or sexiness), but nobody seems to care at the moment.

Not that I totally care, I would like to work at a place that wants me for me. I don't want to pretend I am somebody that I am not. The constant rejection doesn't do wonders for my self-esteem however.

Also, the words that are used a lot when it comes to hiring are confusing. Every employer wants me to be 'flexible' but I am not sure whether they mean a willingness to negotiate or whether they're looking for people who cannot or will not say 'no' to them.

Another word that is used a lot here is 'passion'. You have to be passionate about low-wage jobs. I don't understand. Do they mean that I will put up with the low pay because I get to do what I love, or are they implying I should be willing to do way more than is justified on what they're going to pay me?

I could go on. What words are confusing you?


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## Plaxico (Dec 11, 2010)

When I read the title I thought you had no job much less any offer. You mention a living wage but also suitability / enjoyableness (not a word but the meaning behind it, ok enjoyment, lol brain fart). What I don't understand is the part about the teller job. You siad you do not object to the job and do not feel it will be better than your current situation. The problem is with not replying back. That's an issue for several reasons. 1) It shows that (even if this is not your intention) you're not really sensitive to the company 2) It is an opportunity perhaps you have not thought over enough or taken a shot at 3) Not replying really hurts any future chance at all with the company. Granted, I've done this as well. What I'm saying is by not replying you're basically burning a bridge. It could be that their hiring department is external, or that they have multiple hiring people, but if its the same person, or if they discuss internally about candidates, and you have not replied it will most likely be seen as disrespect, they may not remember you at best, at worst they'll have a poor impression of you. 

Be a little more positive :happy:. Having a job at all is a blessing in this economy, especially for recent grads. I've made the mistake before of leaving a job I was 100% satisfied with and can't say I'm completely happy with that decision. You're young so taking on or dealing with a job you're not so upbeat about or don't feel you have long term there is not a lock for life. The dream job isn't going to be the 1st, or 2nd, or even 3rd option on many occasions. See if you can't work your way up, or gain experience, networking, insight and knowledge and move forward after a while. Who knows, you may even end up liking that job.


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## MBTI Enthusiast (Jan 29, 2011)

Bear987 said:


> I could go on. What words are confusing you?


The most annoying thing I've encountered is how you really are supposed to "fall in love" with every job you apply for. You're supposed to act passionate in your cover letter and interview. Being the not-fake, optimistic person I am, I really try to see myself in every job I apply for and build up true passion and excitement for them. However, I have learned that this approach crushes your self-esteem really quickly. Passion doesn't mean much these days, it seems. So now I've started detaching my emotions when I apply, never getting too invested in any job I apply for. Now I'm wondering: how does that detachment translate on paper? The system seems kinda screwed to me.


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## Bear987 (May 13, 2012)

MBTI Enthusiast said:


> The most annoying thing I've encountered is how you really are supposed to "fall in love" with every job you apply for. You're supposed to act passionate in your cover letter and interview. Being the not-fake, optimistic person I am, I really try to see myself in every job I apply for and build up true passion and excitement for them. However, I have learned that this approach crushes your self-esteem really quickly. Passion doesn't mean much these days, it seems. So now I've started detaching my emotions when I apply, never getting too invested in any job I apply for. Now I'm wondering: how does that detachment translate on paper? The system seems kinda screwed to me.


Oh wow, I relate to everything you just said! As a good INFJ I can see myself do a lot of things. I can get enthusiastic about so many things. But then, when I get rejected I feel really bad. So, just like you said, I am currently trying a new approach that is more detached. I put little less effort in my cover letters and pretend that whether I get hired is of no consequence.

When someone calls to reject me, I go: Oh, okay, thanks for calling and have nice day! - as though someone gave me good news.

I reckon the system has never made total sense, but now that things are tight it is starting to show.


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## Daithi (Dec 13, 2011)

fihe said:


> I graduated this past May with a BA in history and a social studies teacher certification. I'm currently doing per diem substitute teaching while keeping my job at a drugstore. the problem is that, even though I enjoy substitute teaching, I really don't think I want to be a full-time teacher anymore. I've witnessed the problems that go on in an educational setting and I just don't want to deal with them. a lot of politics and scapegoating.
> 
> the problem is that I don't really have any experience in any other field. I did apply for a job as a bank teller about a month ago and was interviewed but wasn't accepted. HR called me again a few days ago but I didn't reply because even though I think I may still want to work in a bank, I feel like perhaps a teller position isn't much better than the kind of work I have now. I've tried applying for teaching jobs just for the hell of it, and also applied for a few administrative assistant jobs. no answer from anyone. there are jobs outside of the educational field that I'm interested in, and even if they don't say they require a certain amount of experience, they say it's "preferred". but I don't have said experience, so what am I to do? in fact, how does anyone move into another job industry other than what they've studied for in school? how are they able to acquire the skills necessary if they've never had any previous training?
> 
> ...


You have worked hard and long to do this, just go with it. Just for a year at least. While you are at it, pursue a passion on the side. And maybe that passion will take off eventually. But now try teaching.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

snapdragons said:


> LMAO!
> 
> I don't think it always requires extroversion. After all, just ONE person can make a difference. That person could be your friend's friend who happens to think you'll do well at the job.


That assumes you got friends' friends or anything of the sort XD


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## DMack (Aug 16, 2011)

fihe said:


> I graduated this past May with a BA in history and a social studies teacher certification. I'm currently doing per diem substitute teaching while keeping my job at a drugstore. the problem is that, even though I enjoy substitute teaching, I really don't think I want to be a full-time teacher anymore. I've witnessed the problems that go on in an educational setting and I just don't want to deal with them. a lot of politics and scapegoating.
> 
> the problem is that I don't really have any experience in any other field. I did apply for a job as a bank teller about a month ago and was interviewed but wasn't accepted. HR called me again a few days ago but I didn't reply because even though I think I may still want to work in a bank, I feel like perhaps a teller position isn't much better than the kind of work I have now. I've tried applying for teaching jobs just for the hell of it, and also applied for a few administrative assistant jobs. no answer from anyone. there are jobs outside of the educational field that I'm interested in, and even if they don't say they require a certain amount of experience, they say it's "preferred". but I don't have said experience, so what am I to do? in fact, how does anyone move into another job industry other than what they've studied for in school? how are they able to acquire the skills necessary if they've never had any previous training?
> 
> ...


The key is to keep trying. You have a degree in a tight field right now and need to keep pounding untill you find a job it in. It will happen.


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## Devalight (May 27, 2012)

LeaT said:


> Fucking networking. It needs to die in a fire. I swear. How in the world did we end up with this extreme extraversion bias when it comes to job applications...


I second that!! I HATE even the idea of "networking". I really can't do it. In spite of being an extreme introvert I have been able to be employed for over 20 years straight - until the economy died. The last three years have been job hunting hell. But I still don't know how to "network!"

Job interviews suck also. The questions that most of them ask have nothing to do with whether or not you can do the job. If it says on my resume I have done the job for 10 years, what is the purpose of the interview, other than to see you are a real person? Maybe they can decide if they like your face or not. Or, maybe the right person isn't even interviewing you.

I was in a situation where the office manager interviewed me, I then interviewed with the person *I would be directly working for,* got the job, then *two weeks* later was fired. The person who *owned the business* never interviewed me. On the first day on the job he got up in my face (no witnesses) in a *hostile manner* asked what I had really done for my former employer. He was a real jerk to me. I answered him, and he threw it back in my face in a sneering tone, like I didn't know what I was doing. If he really wanted to know what I did for my former employer, why the hell didn't he interview me before I got the job?? So, two weeks later office manager calls me in and says things aren't working out. The reason given me was "you couldn't learn the job." real reason: big boss doesn't like you, doesn't want you around, goodbye. My only regret is that I didn't walk out of there the first day.


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## snapdragons (Feb 1, 2011)

@Devalight, would you be comfortable with writing a review on them at glassdoor or some other employer reviews site? You can be anon but I think things like this need to be shed to light. I know there is a top-rated company by me where an article on it ran in the newspaper but their bs was revealed in the comments of the article.


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## Devalight (May 27, 2012)

@snapdragons Maybe I would do that in a year or so. I am still too close to this incident. I don't want to be recognized because there is no telling what people like this are capable of.


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## CorgiGirl (Jan 3, 2011)

I'm having trouble finding a job too. Fortunate for me, the job I would have gotten would have been temporary as I'm going to grad school in a year. So giving up (not that I have yet) isn't as bad. I actually applied for what appeared to be the perfect job about a week ago as a temporary HR assistant (human resources is one of the fields covered by the degree I want to get at grad school) but I doubt I'll get it since I have no real experience and they didn't ask for a cover letter that would allow me to explain why I would be good for the job anyway.

I don't know if this advice will help, but here's a few things that jumped into my mind while reading the topic.

1. I read that you're worried about your loans. If you have to, defer. It doesn't hurt your credit and it's better then defaulting. 

2. Rack up unpaid experience while looking for work. It was hard for me to tell if you do want to get into education or not, but if you are looking for work in education then substitute teaching will definitely help but if you want to add on to that then look for little unpaid teaching things. My roommate's going to graduate with a teaching certificate and a B.A. in history. On top of school, she teaches Sunday School and tutors which is already giving her experience before she's started looking.

3. Make sure your resume is as pretty as possible. And when I say pretty, I mean attractive to the eye of the employer. Going to a career center is a good start for making your resume as good as possible because they can give you some really good tips. 

4. It is a tough economy, so I would suggest looking more broadly then where you currently live. Of course, you may be doing that already, but I just wanted to throw that out there. And yeah, it's been said already but think about who you know. If you know people who can help you network, give them a call. I know for myself personally I have a brother that brags that he can get people jobs and a brother-in-law that seems to have friends/colleagues in high places.


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## fihe (Aug 30, 2012)

CorgiGirl said:


> I'm having trouble finding a job too. Fortunate for me, the job I would have gotten would have been temporary as I'm going to grad school in a year. So giving up (not that I have yet) isn't as bad. I actually applied for what appeared to be the perfect job about a week ago as a temporary HR assistant (human resources is one of the fields covered by the degree I want to get at grad school) but I doubt I'll get it since I have no real experience and they didn't ask for a cover letter that would allow me to explain why I would be good for the job anyway.


I actually applied to a few Toys R Us locations as an HR supervisor since it didn't seem to require any experience or education I don't have, but they all rejected me. one of them said that they thought my qualifications were good but that the vacancy is no longer available. that specific location was advertising on indeed.com a few days ago. I guess they got someone already!



CorgiGirl said:


> 1. I read that you're worried about your loans. If you have to, defer. It doesn't hurt your credit and it's better then defaulting.


I'm actually not too worried about my loans anymore, because my grandfather's house just sold and he wanted to give me $25,000, the original amount I borrowed, so I could be done paying off my student loans ^_^ the house sold for less than we wanted it to, but the buyer paid in cash, which is great for us. lately I have been thinking of going to grad school as well, but I don't want to bother him for money for that.



CorgiGirl said:


> 2. Rack up unpaid experience while looking for work. It was hard for me to tell if you do want to get into education or not, but if you are looking for work in education then substitute teaching will definitely help but if you want to add on to that then look for little unpaid teaching things. My roommate's going to graduate with a teaching certificate and a B.A. in history. On top of school, she teaches Sunday School and tutors which is already giving her experience before she's started looking.


I've been considering offering my tutoring services. I made a profile on care.com a few months ago but I suppose I'll also need to advertise elsewhere, since no one has ever replied to my profile. I've seen babysitting and petsitting ads, but I don't trust myself to watch kids. however, I'd watch someone's pets if they were no more than a 10-minute radius from where I live. I love cats and dogs 



CorgiGirl said:


> 3. Make sure your resume is as pretty as possible. And when I say pretty, I mean attractive to the eye of the employer. Going to a career center is a good start for making your resume as good as possible because they can give you some really good tips.


Yes, I've been reading about this online lately! I did revamp my résumé format lately because I thought it didn't look too good, and perhaps was having trouble in the applicant tracking systems that employers use.



CorgiGirl said:


> 4. It is a tough economy, so I would suggest looking more broadly then where you currently live. Of course, you may be doing that already, but I just wanted to throw that out there. And yeah, it's been said already but think about who you know. If you know people who can help you network, give them a call. I know for myself personally I have a brother that brags that he can get people jobs and a brother-in-law that seems to have friends/colleagues in high places.


that I haven't done, because when I did my student teaching semester, I had a 45-minute, $5.15, 35-mile PER WAY commute. I would use up a quarter tank of gas each day! for me, this was quite stressful (and expensive) to do every day, and left me always tired. plus, I wasn't getting paid to do my student teaching or even reimbursed for gas. of course, if I got a real job I'd be getting paid, but I don't see why I should spend so much time and money on transportation if all that travel every day would leave me constantly exhausted and probably start to take a toll on my health. I've been looking within a 25-mile/45-minute (depending on traffic) radius of my home, and checking indeed.com and careerbuilder.com every day!

as for networking, even though it can be difficult to do at my current job, a teacher at one of the schools I substitute teach at suggested I speak to the supervisor of the social studies department. but I'm not sure what good that would do if there is not currently a vacancy for a social studies teacher. and I do know a few people that may be able to help me, but I haven't spoken to them in years and I'm not even sure if they'd remember me. it would be super awkward if I contacted one of my college professors and they asked, "who are you again?"


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## CorgiGirl (Jan 3, 2011)

fihe said:


> that I haven't done, because when I did my student teaching semester, I had a 45-minute, $5.15, 35-mile PER WAY commute. I would use up a quarter tank of gas each day! for me, this was quite stressful (and expensive) to do every day, and left me always tired. plus, I wasn't getting paid to do my student teaching or even reimbursed for gas. of course, if I got a real job I'd be getting paid, but I don't see why I should spend so much time and money on transportation if all that travel every day would leave me constantly exhausted and probably start to take a toll on my health. I've been looking within a 25-mile/45-minute (depending on traffic) radius of my home, and checking indeed.com and careerbuilder.com every day!


I was actually indicating that you move. You're recently a college graduate right? Then it might be advantageous to apply somewhere else and then move there. I know that's what a lot of other graduates are doing, and the ones that didn't had more trouble, from what I can tell. In this economy, it's easier for college graduates to live where they work, not work where they live, if you know what I mean. 

Of course, this is only a good idea if it's a job that shows permanence, such as a teaching job. And if you have something holding you back such as a serious boyfriend then that has to be taken under consideration. And I'm a liar if I don't admit that I'll probably try my hardest to not move far away myself. But it's still something to think about.


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## fihe (Aug 30, 2012)

@CorgiGirl I haven't considered moving, because while some people may want to move to a new area for better job prospects, I think this is not a wise decision unless I already have a permanent job lined up for that area. what if I move somewhere else and can't find a job there either? I don't have enough money right now to move, so I'd need to wait until I get a steady income that pays enough. sometimes I think I'd like to move to a different location within my state, which wouldn't be as drastic as moving elsewhere, but again, it's an expense that I can't take on at the moment. the cost of living in my state (NJ) is quite high!


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## unINFalliPle (Jul 8, 2012)

Then you've got to start thinking that you're employable. 

It is tough to get employed. You seem to have a good framework and I'm sure you can be trained for other kinds of jobs. If anything, you can ask for feedback as to why they're not accepting you. Maybe some more positivity, showing more of what you have to offer when you get in, willingness to learn, bring up your strong points that suit the targeted job. I've gotta start thinking of this. Good luck!


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## CorgiGirl (Jan 3, 2011)

fihe said:


> @CorgiGirl I haven't considered moving, because while some people may want to move to a new area for better job prospects, I think this is not a wise decision unless I already have a permanent job lined up for that area. what if I move somewhere else and can't find a job there either? I don't have enough money right now to move, so I'd need to wait until I get a steady income that pays enough. sometimes I think I'd like to move to a different location within my state, which wouldn't be as drastic as moving elsewhere, but again, it's an expense that I can't take on at the moment. the cost of living in my state (NJ) is quite high!


Sorry, yeah, that's what I meant. Get a job lined up, and then move there. I just meant to apply for jobs outside of where you live, you don't have to move anywhere yet.


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## Worth Lessemo (Feb 20, 2012)

Perhaps specialize within the education system, for example a behavioural therapist helping support unique students. 

(NF's really succeed here. As an NT I found myself excellent at it, but I was unable to handle my coworkers lol.)


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## WickedQueen (Jun 1, 2009)

fihe said:


> I graduated this past May with a BA in history and a social studies teacher certification. I'm currently doing per diem substitute teaching while keeping my job at a drugstore. the problem is that, even though I enjoy substitute teaching, I really don't think I want to be a full-time teacher anymore. I've witnessed the problems that go on in an educational setting and I just don't want to deal with them. a lot of politics and scapegoating.
> 
> the problem is that I don't really have any experience in any other field. I did apply for a job as a bank teller about a month ago and was interviewed but wasn't accepted. HR called me again a few days ago but I didn't reply because even though I think I may still want to work in a bank, I feel like perhaps a teller position isn't much better than the kind of work I have now. I've tried applying for teaching jobs just for the hell of it, and also applied for a few administrative assistant jobs. no answer from anyone. there are jobs outside of the educational field that I'm interested in, and even if they don't say they require a certain amount of experience, they say it's "preferred". but I don't have said experience, so what am I to do? in fact, how does anyone move into another job industry other than what they've studied for in school? how are they able to acquire the skills necessary if they've never had any previous training?
> 
> ...


Ever think of teaching English in non-English countries?


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## Eric Blair (Jul 2, 2012)

Well, this is a sad state of affairs. The economy is in wretched shape. . . . and its going to get worse . . . much worse. Unfortunately, young people, their parents, and 'teachers' seem to be completely unaware of this on some personal level. Why would people spend thousands of dollars and 4 years or more . . . going after a credential that had little value ? Is it foolish optimism (wishful thinking) ? "It'll all work out in the end." Or perhaps, like so many with parents who still have money, . . . they will go on to 'graduate school' and waste more money & time there ? Back in June I attended h.s. graduation ceremonies for a number of family members. I was quite amazed at how many kids, (and their parents) seemed to have absolutely no idea what the kids were going to do next. Many of them are now freshman in college, spending thousands of hard-to-come-by family dollars on 'general studies' and partying.
If youre going to go to some institution, IMO you'd be wise to make sure you need it to pick up skills that will enable you to make a living afterwards. You don't need college to become a truly educated person, (and its likely to impede you in many ways). I hope those still in h.s., and their parents, are paying attention to the OPs experience. It is common today.
Perhaps this link will help and get some people to thinking in new ways on this subject:
http://www.garynorth.com/public/department89.cfm


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## Morpheus83 (Oct 17, 2008)

Just a couple of things to think about: 

1) When some teachers/counsellors extol the 'versatility' of a humanities degree, they're probably only telling half the story or not clearly defining what 'versatility' means. To me, 'versatility' simply means that the 'average' humanities graduate is able to meet selection criteria relating to interpersonal, general research, critical thinking and communication skills; it doesn't mean that the 'versatility' of the degree is going to allow the graduate to do over nearly every job on offer when additional training and skills are required.

2) Nothing wrong with emphasising 'transferable' skills and qualities; they're not mutually exclusive with technical/practical skills. 'Transferable' skills (usually relating to 'soft' skills like communication, teamwork, etc..) still need to be contextualised in selection criteria -- and it's possible to demonstrate technical knowledge at the same time e.g. "Coordinated and monitored online group activities for (insert specific project here) using (insert specific software/online service here)" 

3) University/college education is expensive, but depending on your goals -- it's often less about what you choose to study and more about how/where you choose to apply your degree. If you're a humanities graduate, no employer outside of academia is going to ask you if you're able to write a paper on postmodernism or Shakespeare; many are more interested in whether or not you're able to think, communicate and work well with others while demonstrating relevant technical skills (often combined with experience).

4) Job and career wise, *any* degree is 'useless' if you're not fully committed to being adaptable (by getting further training, developing other skills outside of academia, applying for jobs not directly related to your area of study, etc..) and/or don't plan to use the technical/practical skills you might've picked up as part of your course (because you were probably never interested in the first place).


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## Eric Blair (Jul 2, 2012)

Few humanities programs in American universities today teach critical thinking skills. They are places of politiically correct indoctrination. Any study of the attitudes of professors at such universities will illustrate how blandly uniform they are. That hardly is a recipe for a balanced inquiry. One doesnt have to spend thousands at a university to learn how to think. IMO it would better serve the student to run as far away as possible from such propaganda factories. - - - Conditions are better in the hard sciences and technical fields. Reality and hard numbers makes p.c. indoctrination less feasible.
One can truly educate themselves broadly without a university. Do a short course of studies/training that will help you earn a living. Spend your off time learning. You won't even have to worry about irrelevant 'grades'.

Just look up the percentage of waitresses and bartenders who have college degrees. What a waste of time and money. They could have taken a short bartending course and used their off time to educate themselves. That would have saved a great deal of money (and debt, for many of them).


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## fihe (Aug 30, 2012)

very interesting thoughts from everybody here. @WickedQueen, I at one time thought of teaching overseas, but I realistically don't think that moving far away is feasible for me, at least not at this time in my life.



Eric Blair said:


> Few humanities programs in American universities today teach critical thinking skills. They are places of politiically correct indoctrination. Any study of the attitudes of professors at such universities will illustrate how blandly uniform they are. That hardly is a recipe for a balanced inquiry. One doesnt have to spend thousands at a university to learn how to think. IMO it would better serve the student to run as far away as possible from such propaganda factories. - - - Conditions are better in the hard sciences and technical fields. Reality and hard numbers makes p.c. indoctrination less feasible.
> One can truly educate themselves broadly without a university. Do a short course of studies/training that will help you earn a living. Spend your off time learning. You won't even have to worry about irrelevant 'grades'.
> 
> Just look up the percentage of waitresses and bartenders who have college degrees. What a waste of time and money. They could have taken a short bartending course and used their off time to educate themselves. That would have saved a great deal of money (and debt, for many of them).


well, although there are many people with a college degree who haven't been able to get a job that uses it, also keep in mind that a lot of employers won't even consider someone who doesn't have one. a degree has become something that one needs to get "just in case", but it's pretty expensive for something that may not even be used! I suppose postsecondary education is like a very expensive insurance policy.

I just realized today that maybe I should, in fact, be a little more selective when applying for jobs. I got a voicemail today from GoodTemps, I believe for an administrative assistant position I applied for online. but I was thinking that if I really did do that, then I'd need to quit my current job, and I'd miss the students and teachers! I would only be willing to quit my current job if it were a job that I _really_ wanted, and although I suppose I could use the experience of being an administrative assistant, it doesn't interest me as much as working in a school. I wonder if it would be an wise decision of me to put off any jobs like that until the summer. of course, I'll start applying in May if that's the case.

I spoke to a science teacher today at the middle school, and asked him a few questions about getting certified to teach science. it turns out that just taking a test isn't enough, and that one needs 30 science credits. I figured this was true, and incidentally, 30 credits is just what I would need to obtain a graduate degree in chemistry. I'm a little worried that a school district may be less likely to hire someone with a graduate degree, since I'd require higher pay, but then again, I'd be certified to teach two subjects. also, the teacher I spoke to has a graduate degree himself, despite having a science major in his undergrad years. finally, there appear to be a lot of science jobs in my area, so I guess I could do something with the degree even if teaching didn't work out.

speaking of science, I got an email back today in response to my application from Mad Science, a franchise that does after-school programs, workshops, and parties for kids, with fun science experiments for the children. they want me to come in for an interview next week  I selected my availability to be for after school and weekends, so I can still keep my current job. I hope they hire me!


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