# Penis Envy



## snail (Oct 13, 2008)

I've been thinking about how I used to feel about my sexual parts, back when I was a child, and I'm wondering how common it is for little girls 

1. to feel like they used to have a penis, before they had any memory of existence, and lost it before it could grow attached, because they were bad

2. to have sexual torture fantasies in which they have a penis that is being destroyed or removed by an authority figure as a punishment for being bad

3. to have thought of their vagina as the empty hole where they are lacking a penis rather than as a separate kind of genitalia

4. to have seen the vagina as a destroyed penis that existed in the aftermath of some kind of imaginary or unremembered trauma

5. to have thought of their clitoris as a miniature, imperfect penis

6.to have thought that being a girl made them inferior, or was something bad that happened to them because they were unworthy of getting to be boys

7. to have felt jealous of a male sibling for still having a penis, and for being a boy.

8. to have had fantasies about doing sexual things to boys (or girls) with a penis, despite not actually having one

9. to experience any other form of penis envy that I didn't mention.


I know girls tend not to talk about these kinds of things, so I have no way of knowing if penis envy is a normal part of growing up female, or if there is some other significance to such thoughts.


----------



## dreamer 1977 (Dec 14, 2010)

I voted "I like my penis just fine" before I saw the vagina envy option. I don't actually wish I had a vagina but I envy how much power it has over men and how penis really has no power over women (unless she's a nympho).

The only sort of penis envy I've felt towards other males is those who have 'showers' as opposed to 'growers'. Just kind of envied how their penis in its normal non-arroused state is already big. So maybe I envy other's flaccid penises but once I'm erect, I'm perfectly happy with the size, look and shape of my penis. 

Maybe I just need to be erect all the time. roud:


----------



## Vaka (Feb 26, 2010)

I don't think I've ever had penis envy. I was very gender nonconformist from the age of 6 to about the age of 11, but I don't think I actually ever felt uncomfortable with being a female.


----------



## Vanitas (Dec 13, 2009)

I'm not sure if I want one, that would make my sexuality (and my partner's) more confusing than I probably can handle.


----------



## MR.ED (Nov 3, 2010)

I'm not quite sure what the word "envy" really means but i can say that i've wished mine was like someone elses...bigger (like most men wish). But i certainly don't wish i had a vagina. No thanks - they bleed. I just want a vagina readily available to me...you know...for whenever i need to take care of business. I look at it like this - vaginas are beautiful...tasty and amazing to me. Penises are just manly, powerful and, if large in size, cool to see.


----------



## Erbse (Oct 15, 2010)

You might want to dip into some of Freud's stuff, if I remember correctly he has covered that topic.


----------



## scarygirl (Aug 12, 2010)

snail said:


> I've been thinking about how I used to feel about my sexual parts, back when I was a child, and I'm wondering how common it is for little girls
> 
> 1. to feel like they used to have a penis, before they had any memory of existence, and lost it before it could grow attached, because they were bad
> 
> ...


This is interesting. I think you open a fairly interesting topic.
I don't wish that I had a penis, but I wonder how it is like. I think about how it must feel, and feels like I had one, I mean, I think about it. So, I want to know how a penis is, how it feels.
Some days it's like I wish I was a man. Because in many senses, I'm quite masculine. I'm strange, I suppose.


----------



## Darkestblue (Apr 19, 2010)

I have vagina envy. As a male, if I want to be in a relationship with someone, I have to be the go-getter, but I have never been the go-getter type. I envy women, who get to pick and choose from the list of men who want them.


----------



## Gattonside (Dec 15, 2010)

I can honestly say i've never wanted a penis, or felt any envy towards those who have one. I've had daydreams wondering what it would be like with a penis, how the sensations would be different but i've never wanted one.

I like my vagina.


----------



## dreamer 1977 (Dec 14, 2010)

Jazzanova said:


> I have vagina envy. As a male, if I want to be in a relationship with someone, I have to be the go-getter, but I have never been the go-getter type. I envy women, who get to pick and choose from the list of men who want them.


Same here.

But sometimes you'll find a more assertive and dominant woman who'll chase after you. Being chased after is much more rewarding to me than chasing after. Probably because you know if she's chasing you, she likes you, there's no fear of rejection. Plus you kinda like being chased. :laughing:

It's definitely not an actual case of wishing you had a vagina instead of a penis, it's more that you wish the traditional roles (of the man being the chaser) were reversed. Watch Chris Rock's "Kill the Messenger", he explains it pretty well. 

I think most men would admit having it but they won't because they think it means they want a vagina and that emasculates them.


----------



## Miss Keks (Nov 7, 2010)

To tell it first, I don't really like Freud's penis envy theory. I don't know it just feels like a theory created by a man (phallus-central in my eyes). Maybe it just seems to me, because I always thought of a penis rather as something disgusting (what it is not actually to me anymore) than of something you could be envy of.

So, to say so, I'm transsexual and I had a penis ever since. But I neither felt penis or vagina envy when I was a child, though I always had a strange feeling when confronted with girl's vagina. It was not a feeling of envy, I would say it was a feeling of not-understanding, why they have it and me not. I ever questioned why I had a penis.

Later in puberty I somehow felt that I had a vagina inside of me. A strange feeling, though. Also I grew disgusted of my penis or any other. Maybe since then Freud's penis envy never ever could make sense to me, because I was anti-envy, I wouldn't fit in any way. I could not understand why you could be envy of THIS ...

So, well, today I don't find penises disgusting anymore. I like them, at men, but I don't wish to have one myself. Actually I want to have a vagina, but still it's not a feeling of envy that's the cause of this wish, as more a feeling of it's already inside of me but just has to be brought to surface.

(Maybe you can think of it as I never was curious of what a vagina would feel like, because I know it; not from experience but from an inside view on how it should feel like. And that view is totally missing for a penis, I just know how it feels from experience, but as I forgot how it feels to have a beard or a flat chest, I guess I will forget that, too.)

So that's my view onto this envy thing. I don't know if anyone can understand my feelings regarding it  But maybe you will look onto Freud's penis envy a little more critically, like me.

I won't say Freud is wrong, but Freud was in my eyes way too much focused on sexual things. Typically phallus-centered in my eyes. And like Freud had have at his time great theories, today they are historic, because we have much better theories now that are much more accurate.


----------



## viva (Aug 13, 2010)

Nope-- I love my vagina. Penises are weird. :wink:


----------



## Digger Blue (Dec 1, 2010)

*The Penis*



vivacissimamente said:


> Nope-- I love my vagina. Penises are weird. :wink:


But fun to play with!


----------



## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

I love my Easter basket and am quite satisfied. I've never wanted a penis or shared any fantasy or curiosity to stab someone with my dagger.


----------



## midnightblonde (Aug 12, 2010)

Not as a child. I do wonder what it is like to have a penis though... It saddens me to think I'll never know. 

If I was offered the chance to have a male body for one day, I'd definitely take it. 

I'm also envious of how easy it is for males to climax.


----------



## viva (Aug 13, 2010)

midnightblonde said:


> Not as a child. I do wonder what it is like to have a penis though... It saddens me to think I'll never know.
> 
> If I was offered the chance to have a male body for one day, I'd definitely take it.
> 
> I'm also envious of how easy it is for males to climax.


I do agree with this! Although I wouldn't go so far to say it saddens me, I would totally go for the male-body-for-a-day thing out of sheer curiosity, as I'm sure most other females would. 

If you think about it in regards to sex, it's not really easier for them to climax in terms of the mental part of it (I don't think)-- just a more convenient location of all the right nerve endings. :tongue: 

I always wondered what stimulation & orgasm would feel like as a male, too :shocked: And if it would feel any different than it does as a female. But, again, nowhere near anything I'd call penis envy.


----------



## Miss Keks (Nov 7, 2010)

vivacissimamente said:


> I always wondered what stimulation & orgasm would feel like as a male, too :shocked: And if it would feel any different than it does as a female. But, again, nowhere near anything I'd call penis envy.


It does. But it's not better or worse than female orgasms. Male orgasms are shorter and concentrated in a point, whereas female ones need longer to climax, but are more spread through the body. Male ones reach a level of energy revealed, that is higher than in female ones, but therefore as female you can have multiple orgasms, what's a really pretty thing actually.

But don't look weird at me because I know both, it's just how it is.


----------



## dreamer 1977 (Dec 14, 2010)

Miss Keks said:


> It does. But it's not better or worse than female orgasms. Male orgasms are shorter and concentrated in a point, whereas female ones need longer to climax, but are more spread through the body. Male ones reach a level of energy revealed, that is higher than in female ones, but therefore as female you can have multiple orgasms, what's a really pretty thing actually.
> 
> But don't look weird at me because I know both, it's just how it is.


Men can have multiple orgasms... just wait like five minutes and do it all over again.


----------



## Miss Keks (Nov 7, 2010)

zabajk said:


> Men can have multiple orgasms... just wait like five minutes and do it all over again.


But this is not what's considered multiple, is it? You have to start from the beginning, don't you? Women don't have to. I experienced orgasms in a row, without really a pause between them.

So after a men's orgasm their sensitivity decreases, doesn't it? Therefore you need to start from beginning. But after a woman's orgasm the sensitivity doesn't really decrease, it can even increase. So you don't have to wait or start from beginning.

Of course men can also have one orgasm after the other, but ... doesn't it hurt after a while?


----------



## Terrestrial Wisdom (Dec 8, 2010)

Modern psychology shows flaws in many of Sigmund Freud's theories. It's interesting stuff but I don't take it seriously.


----------



## Miss Keks (Nov 7, 2010)

skycloud86 said:


> That's probably correct. It certainly would explain a lot about society.


And again, Freud is right :laughing:

I've experienced this phallic shape with roll-on deodorants, I can't help it, some of them just look like a phallus in my eyes. Maybe my unconsciousness is telling me something?

I don't know it if it's just coincidence, but I doubt that, there are enough other ergonomic designs.


----------



## snail (Oct 13, 2008)

I see nearly everything as being masculine, feminine, or some combination, because of either the form or the purpose. For example, the things I make on my sewing machine are usually feminine, and the act of sewing is both, because it combines the masculine penetrative needle with the feminine receptive fabric, joining them in the creative process into something capable of having an independent gender. I tend to make hats and bags mostly. These hold other things inside of them and are vaguely vaginal, playing a passive or supportive yin role in relation to other objects. 

I assumed it was normal, and that everyone did this, or there wouldn't be languages in which items were gendered. My own language doesn't do this, but it is part of my understanding of the things I experience. Except in very ambiguous cases, I just know which an item is, because it makes sense. If not for this reality, would the concepts "masculine" and "feminine" have any meaning at all, aside from the traditional, artificial, limiting ones that tend to have very little to do with actual essences?


----------



## Miss Keks (Nov 7, 2010)

snail said:


> I see nearly everything as being masculine, feminine, or some combination, because of either the form or the purpose. For example, the things I make on my sewing machine are usually feminine, and the act of sewing is both, because it combines the masculine penetrative needle with the feminine receptive fabric, joining them in the creative process into something capable of having an independent gender. I tend to make hats and bags mostly. These hold other things inside of them and are vaguely vaginal, playing a passive or supportive yin role in relation to other objects.
> 
> I assumed it was normal, and that everyone did this, or there wouldn't be languages in which items were gendered. My own language doesn't do this, but it is part of my understanding of the things I experience. Except in very ambiguous cases, I just know which an item is, because it makes sense. If not for this reality, would the concepts "masculine" and "feminine" have any meaning at all, aside from the traditional, artificial, limiting ones that tend to have very little to do with actual essences?


I do this, too, I call some items masculine and feminine, even though they do not point to a gender itself. Like my little cute car is male or my frog pencil is male. But I wouldn't go that far and say a bag is feminine because you put things into or a pen is masculine and the paper feminine. I don't know but for me this seems like overdoing it, I mean it's just a kind of role.
Traditionally, the feminine be one that gives itself to others and the masculine be the one that penetrates, but I cannot really go with that, it just feels limited to me. It's too simple for being more than an archaic understanding.

Sure, we try to divide everything into feminine and masculine, this function is settled deep in our brain stem, but it's our view onto the world and not the world itself, because the world is very ambiguous.


----------



## MR.ED (Nov 3, 2010)

Digger Blue said:


> I am holding in my hand a plastic bottle of woman's shampoo. It is light yellow in color, and 20.5 cm high, 8 cm wide. It is sort of an ellipse in shape with the opening at the bottom. The back side of the bottle is straight vertically, and cylindrical. The front side of the bottle, when viewed from the side has an arc to it suggesting an erection. You have to view it from the side to open the bottom. At this point, the bottle is held with the left hand at the base, with the right hand opening the lit on the bottom, with the erection in front of her face. If you look at the rounded tip at the top end of the tube, there is a sideways slit that is visible, and possibly an artifact of manufacture, but it seems to be suggestive of the flat orifice of a penis.
> Now I'm sure that manufacturers would not put lady's shampoo in a phallic shaped bottle, would they?
> Digger Blue


You should post a pic of it! LOL


----------



## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

MR.ED said:


> You should post a pic of it! LOL


Why? Do you have some overwhelming need to see a shampoo bottle?


----------



## MR.ED (Nov 3, 2010)

skycloud86 said:


> Why? Do you have some overwhelming need to see a shampoo bottle?


Sure i do - after he went to such great lengths to describe it. Now i'm just wondering how much it actually looks like a dick.


----------



## devoid (Jan 3, 2011)

Aww, this thread made me feel so sad...  That sounds like an awful thing to experience.


----------



## Digger Blue (Dec 1, 2010)

My camera is in South America at the moment. Maybe later.
Digger Blue


----------



## Digger Blue (Dec 1, 2010)

Miss Keks:
Again, you grab it by the base of the shaft and you have it up near your face prior to application. The shoe fits. 
Who's this guy Freud?
Digger Blue


----------



## Miss Keks (Nov 7, 2010)

Digger Blue said:


> Miss Keks:
> Again, you grab it by the base of the shaft and you have it up near your face prior to application. The shoe fits.
> Who's this guy Freud?
> Digger Blue


You know Sigmund Freud, don't you? Sigmund Freud - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

We were originally talking about his theory of penis envy in this thread.


----------



## Ormazd (Jan 26, 2010)

Miss Keks said:


> I do this, too, I call some items masculine and feminine, even though they do not point to a gender itself. Like my little cute car is male or my frog pencil is male. But I wouldn't go that far and say a bag is feminine because you put things into or a pen is masculine and the paper feminine. I don't know but for me this seems like overdoing it, I mean it's just a kind of role.
> Traditionally, the feminine be one that gives itself to others and the masculine be the one that penetrates, but I cannot really go with that, it just feels limited to me. It's too simple for being more than an archaic understanding.
> 
> Sure, we try to divide everything into feminine and masculine, this function is settled deep in our brain stem, but it's our view onto the world and not the world itself, because the world is very ambiguous.


Odd, I generally assign genderless personalities to various objects. For instance my left hand is gentle and kind, whereas my right hand is forceful yet merciful... :mellow:



I feel that I would be much more comfortable with a female body. Though really I would be more comfortable being asexual, or even more desirable would be to be non-human.


----------



## Miss Keks (Nov 7, 2010)

Ormazd said:


> Odd, I generally assign genderless personalities to various objects. For instance my left hand is gentle and kind, whereas my right hand is forceful yet merciful... :mellow:


I also don't give my hands any gender. But things that look alive and I have an kind of bonding with I give somehow personalities and with that a kind of gender. That said, I have stuffed animals that are genderless, too. And everything else is genderless, too.
The best example is knives are like fathers, forks like mothers and spoons like children to me. This thought comes from my first years when I gave things personalities and played with it.



Ormazd said:


> I feel that I would be much more comfortable with a female body. Though really I would be more comfortable being asexual, or even more desirable would be to be non-human.


I can feel with you. In past I was stuck in a male body and somehow felt the same things you mentioned. This is not supposed to mean anything, I can only remember I felt the same way most of the time during male puberty. But maybe it helps to share *hug*

PS: what you said about your hand's personalities reminded me that in very past the right hand was considered masculine and the left hand feminine. My right hand is more elegant and my left hand more clumsy, so what tells me this about gender views? :laughing:


----------



## silmarillion (Dec 11, 2010)

snail said:


> 6.to have thought that being a girl made them inferior, or was something bad that happened to them because they were unworthy of getting to be boys.


When I was younger I wanted to be a boy, I felt that the boys could to what they wanted to do while I had so many rules to follow. Now when I'm older I understand that it wasn't like that. but it felt so.
I also pretended to be a boy, dressed in clothes that could fit both boys and girls. A young transsexual :laughing: I changed, but I'm not heterosexual, so....yeah. Guess I never changed :crazy:


----------



## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

shtm said:


> When I was younger I wanted to be a boy, I felt that the boys could to what they wanted to do while I had so many rules to follow. Now when I'm older I understand that it wasn't like that. but it felt so.
> I also pretended to be a boy, dressed in clothes that could fit both boys and girls. A young transsexual :laughing: I changed, but I'm not heterosexual, so....yeah. Guess I never changed :crazy:


Whilst I can tell what you mean, your younger self was more of a cross dresser than a transsexual.


----------



## silmarillion (Dec 11, 2010)

skycloud86 said:


> Whilst I can tell what you mean, your younger self was more of a cross dresser than a transsexual.


True :happy:


----------



## Esmeralda (Jan 3, 2011)

Was Freud's theory of penis envy supposed to be metaphoric, as in women envying male qualities, or literal, as in women actually wanting a penis? I can definitely relate to envying some male qualities, but I couldn't understand the desire to have a penis. As another person mentioned earlier, it isn't the male genitals that hold sexual power.


----------



## Syrus Magistus (Nov 19, 2010)

snail said:


> I've been thinking about how I used to feel about my sexual parts, back when I was a child, and I'm wondering how common it is for little girls
> 
> 1. to feel like they used to have a penis, before they had any memory of existence, and lost it before it could grow attached, because they were bad
> 
> ...


I never figured that some girls felt that way. I'm quite happy to be a boy. I've got stable hormone levels and my emotions rarely overwhelm me. Also, that whole monthly bleeding thing must suck. So no, I've got no deep envy of the fairer sex. I'll admit when I was little I often thought I was a girl's… reincarnation? Is that the word for it? Anyway, it felt a bit awkward until adolescence. I've got no complaints now. Being male rocks, and if you've got the right charm and wits you can woo anybody. It does help to be magic too. 

Freud can give my lit cigar a blowjob. :laughing:


----------



## devoid (Jan 3, 2011)

Esmeralda said:


> Was Freud's theory of penis envy supposed to be metaphoric, as in women envying male qualities, or literal, as in women actually wanting a penis? I can definitely relate to envying some male qualities, but I couldn't understand the desire to have a penis. As another person mentioned earlier, it isn't the male genitals that hold sexual power.


I always thought it was both, but the way he wrote it suggested that women were seriously jealous of the physical penis. I wouldn't put too much thought into it though - Freud also believed that men who spent too much time with their mothers became homosexual.


----------



## Digger Blue (Dec 1, 2010)

I was told that anything that is destructive is feminine in the German language. 
Digger Blue


----------



## Digger Blue (Dec 1, 2010)

Do you have a twin?
I once knew of a child born who came out with his fist clinched. They opened his fish and found birth control pills. 
:shocked:


----------

