# Manifestations of Inferior Te and/or Si



## Hamlet722 (Jun 23, 2017)

I'm on a journey to discover whether I am an INFP or ENFP, and I'm focusing on the differences between each's inferior functions. Since I'm an ambivert and show strong signs of both Ne and Fi, other users here have suggested looking into inferior Si vs. inferior Te.

I've read a _lot_ about each, but it still seems like a distant concept to me. I understand it, but trying to identify examples of either in my own behavior or thoughts has proven to be more difficult than I had anticipated, especially considering one is often unaware of the precise differences in one's own behavior under extreme stress, since the inferior function is largely a subconscious one.

The biggest problem I've found is a large lack of real-life examples of each inferior function. So my question for you is this: What are some very specific real-life examples of either inferior function? How does each manifest? The more detailed and specific, the better. Think RPG scenarios and situations that can help frame the situation.

Thank you so much and I greatly look forward to hearing back! I'm new here, and I've loved every interaction I've had on the forums thus far- you all are so incredibly kind and helpful.


----------



## Candy Apple (Sep 10, 2015)

I've read your other threads... I am leaning towards INFP because you seem to want to talk to wallflowers to 'help them find themselves'. ENFPs usually talk to anyone in order to gain ideas (they like to help people too but they're much more into ideas). INFPs are more about standing up for certain groups of people for certain causes... which can trickle down into individuals that they feel have been wronged in some way. 

ENFPs are much more able to carry through their ideas even though they really want to, and will, jump to the next. INFPs find it harder to carry through their ideas because of inferior Te.

INFPs really dislike being told what to do, they see it as a form of control (view of inferior Te).

INFPs are usually a lot less assertive.

Generally the inferior function is the kind of function you would tend to dismiss in other people. When I say dismiss I mean... whenever you see glimpses of other people using it, you kinda go, argh, seriously? Yet at the same time when you know about MBTI you can appreciate their strengths... but you usually still feel a sense of -rolls eyes- xD

And sorry, I know I've dodged your actual question.


----------



## Stevester (Feb 28, 2016)

*Inferior Si:* Inability to find much lasting sentimentality behind experiences. Forfeits important details when lit up by a new idea. Difficulty following through with new interests. Constantly searching for bigger and better but merely scratching the surface. May neglect physical needs and comfort. Appears very knowledgeable on just about everything but usually only on a surface level. Never clings very long to people and objects. Can change their mind on a dime even contradict themselves in their beliefs. 

*Inferior Te:* Difficulty in implementing plans and staying organized and disciplined. Disdain for authority and rules even when those are beneficial. Often takes logical advice as a personal attack on their character. The need to control one's environment is usually seen as a strain. Objective thinking always takes a backseat to how one personally feels about something. Acting purely logically feels cold and out of character, kills one's sense of individuality. Therefore often shuns concepts like financial and social prowess as it seen as shallow. Overwhelming preference for a _''live and let live'_' easy going lifestyle vs. over-achieving.


----------



## Hamlet722 (Jun 23, 2017)

@Candy Apple don't worry about dodging the question, I loved reading your response and it made me laugh haha. Your example of inferior Te as INFPs disliking being told what to do is really interesting, I didn't realize before that the two were related and I definitely relate to that. If I like the authority figure, I'll listen to them. Even if I'm not overly fond of them, if I understand their reasoning and see that they have good intentions, I'm cool. But the second there's an authority figure that I have serious moral problems with, I'm driven insane having to listen to them.

I definitely resonate more with what you said about talking to people to help them find themselves rather than for ideas, the former is most definitely me. That actually makes a lot of sense too, the ENFPs I know naturally find themselves talking to everyone in the room for the excitement of it all- the thoughts, the ideas, the adventures. I can be like this, but I'm so much less natural at talking to just anyone. I have a sort of radar for people who need someone to talk to or who are troubled.

And I am so not assertive, haha. I'm the most indirect person. If something bothers me and I'm comfortable with the people I'm around, I'll say it bothers me- and that is the closest to being assertive I will ever come. The other day I was frustrated with the way someone was talking to me via email, and it took everything in me to call him out on it. I thought I was so assertive and laying down the law, but I looked back on the email a few days later and realized literally all I did was ask him what he meant by a certain comment. Who was I kidding- me, assertive? Hah. xD

The largest conflict I've run into with identifying as an INFP is the seemingly universally accepted idea that they have a weakness for championing Fi-driven arguments over more logical ones, often overriding the facts to champion their cause or belief. Perhaps I do this and am just completely oblivious to the fact, but I've always seen myself as a very logical debater. One of my greatest pet peeves is emotionally driven arguments with no factual basis. I love a good cause, but it's hard for me to get behind an argument without solid evidence or logic. Does this completely rule out my chance of being an INFP? Or is it one of those stereotypes not to be taken so seriously?

Thanks again!! <3


----------



## Hamlet722 (Jun 23, 2017)

I'm breaking this down with what I identify with for each, just for future reference. I'm placing in bold the ones that immediately stood out to me.

Inferior Si: 
Inability to find much lasting sentimentality behind experiences. - no, not me at all
*Forfeits important details when lit up by a new idea*. - more true than I'd like to admit
*Difficulty following through with new interests*. - *sigh* yes
*Constantly searching for bigger and better but merely scratching the surface*. - yes yes yes yes yes yes yes
*May neglect physical needs and comfort.* - YES
*Appears very knowledgeable on just about everything but usually only on a surface level*. - yup
Never clings very long to people and objects. - not me at all, I'm incredibly nostalgic and attached to the meanings of everything
Can change their mind on a dime even contradict themselves in their beliefs. - kind of, and yes I can be contradictory

Inferior Te: 
*Difficulty in implementing plans and staying organized and disciplined*. - I hate how true this is, but yes
Disdain for authority and rules even when those are beneficial. - not really if they're beneficial, depending on how I feel about the actual authority figure; my biggest conflict with this has always been that I can always find a way to identify with or understand virtually anyone's perspective, so it's really really hard for me to downright dislike someone- my worldview is very much one of "you don't know someone until you walk in their shoes"
Often takes logical advice as a personal attack on their character. - kind of, if you mean I can't handle criticism then yes
*The need to control one's environment is usually seen as a strain. *- yES
Objective thinking always takes a backseat to how one personally feels about something. - hmm, this depends on what the thing is. if it's distant and theoretical, I need objective thinking. but if it's more personal, then I'm not looking for an objective opinion.
Acting purely logically feels cold and out of character, kills one's sense of individuality. - this is hard. I am very intellectual and have a need for factual evidence and logic when it comes to theoretical arguments, but with more personal ones I think I have a different attitude that's more individual-driven. so yes and no.
Therefore often shuns concepts like financial and social prowess as it seen as shallow. - haven't really developed an opinion on this yet
*Overwhelming preference for a ''live and let live'' easy going lifestyle vs. over-achieving.* - _yes_

Can you see why I'm so confused about myself? Haha. Thanks @Stevester, I really appreciate the breakdown!


----------



## artem (Jul 5, 2017)

Think of something you value greatly-perhaps your stance on animal welfare or how children should be raised.

Is that value encoded in a simple way such as "ALL animals should be treated with kindness" or "Children should NEVER be spanked" . or do your values have more resolution such as "animals not used for food should be treated one way, while animals that are food animals another". "Children who are teens should be treated firmly but very small children who are not listening should be gently treated by placing in time out".

Inferior Si will be seen as a lack of refinement in values-basically Ne creates large generalizations and Si helps one delineate those into more specific categories. If most of your values are broad and sweeping, rather than refined and quite specific, then that points to inf Si, not Te.

Also consider how you respond defensively with a tertiary function. If someone challenges your value do you feel compelled to martyr yourself for the cause (Te action for an Fi value) or do you withdraw a bit and give them an icy, distanced glare-more Si? 

Also-do you know when you are being "bad" and are you ok with it? INFPs often are perfectly aware when they are being spiteful and and are fine with being bad sometimes, especially in small petty ways, whereas an enfp often will think they, of course, are in the right and are a good person and even if they were manipulative or acting in a negative way it was completely justifiable if you just look at the situation in the right way..basically Te used to justify bad behavior.


----------



## Stevester (Feb 28, 2016)

You bolded more Si ones but I think it's not your inferior oddly. Because the common thread is you get attached to things and like nostalgia but kinda easily get lost in novelty as well. That is textbook Ne/Si in INxPs. That constant _''I want to keep exploring but I have a backpack full of goodies accumulated throughout the years''_ mentality.

And the ones you bolded in Inferior Te are Big ones. The whole difficulty controlling, organizing things around you and preferring to just chill is very Inferior Te. ExFPs are like that too but do get kinda anxious when things spiral out of control a little bit.


----------



## Arzazar Szubrasznikarazar (Apr 9, 2015)

Hamlet722 said:


> I'm on a journey to discover whether I am an INFP or ENFP, and I'm focusing on the differences between each's inferior functions. Since I'm an ambivert and show strong signs of both Ne and Fi, other users here have suggested looking into inferior Si vs. inferior Te.
> 
> I've read a _lot_ about each, but it still seems like a distant concept to me. I understand it, but trying to identify examples of either in my own behavior or thoughts has proven to be more difficult than I had anticipated, especially considering one is often unaware of the precise differences in one's own behavior under extreme stress, since the inferior function is largely a subconscious one.
> 
> ...


Using inferior function a lot will exhaust you.

Inferior Si will quickly exhaust you if you tend to recall details, memorize things, recall past experiences, pay attention to details, try do things up to certain standards, etc.
Inferior Te will quickly exhaust you if you use structured speech/writing, active listening, planning, organizing, etc.

Inferior function can be quite well developed, the problem is that usually using it will kill you energetically, unless it's for some specialized things.

I used to think that I'm an introvert, but in reality I'd get quickly exhausted when meeting people because I'd use a lot of Si in conversations.


----------



## Hamlet722 (Jun 23, 2017)

@Stevester ''I want to keep exploring but I have a backpack full of goodies accumulated throughout the years'' this is so me. 

Your take on it is really interesting, and it makes me wonder. Though I feel as if I should expand on the organizing thing. I'm not sure which type this'll point to, but when it comes to organizing, I like it, but I tend to find myself in a disorganized state. I clean and rearrange things when I'm stressed, like it'll prove to myself that I'm doing something right. Anytime I have doubts about something, I organize- whether it be literally organizing drawers and papers or organizing thoughts in a journal. I kind of get in this mentality that if I can organize my surroundings and/or thoughts, organizing myself will follow. If I'm stressed, then disorganization really hits me hard and just amplifies whatever I'm feeling. This, I think, is because most often I am stressed with the idea that I'm not accomplishing enough or making the most of my time, and seeing things disorganized proves this point and causes me to break. Does that still line up with INFP's inferior Te or is that the anxiety you mention of an ENFP when things sprial out of control?


----------



## Hamlet722 (Jun 23, 2017)

@artem I LOVE THIS. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.

Okay so here goes: I am pretty sure my values are more specific. I'm not sure if this'll say anything about functions, but one thing I've noticed about my values/opinions is that I have to think them over and over and over until I can outwardly express them and act on them. I fear contradicting myself- and when I do seem to do that, what's really happening is I can see both sides to something and I'm tossing the coin back and forth to study both sides. This comes off as seeming indecisive or morally ambiguous, and I fear being perceived this way. So I go over facts, feelings, opinions, and experiences in my head until I can come to a decision and then express that to people as a part of my identity. Once I do this, I hate changing my mind. Because it's a part of my identity and if I have to rethink something I've already made a part of myself, in a way I'm rethinking myself.

If someone challenges my view, I think I withdraw, but this may just be due to being generally uncomfortable discussing such things. Since it takes me so long to develop my opinions on things and I hate not having these opinions developed already, I fear that if I martyr myself for a cause, I'll be questioned and eventually come to a point where I don't know how I feel about something specific that I need more time to think about before arguing.

I do have a strong conviction that I'm doing something bad when I am in fact doing something bad, haha. But I often convince myself in the moment that I am justified, depending on what it is.

Sorry for the ambiguous answers, but you definitely got me thinking. Thanks so much for the help!!


----------



## Hamlet722 (Jun 23, 2017)

@Arzazar Szubrasznikarazar thank you SO MUCH. I never thought about the inferior function exhausting you, and you've placed a whole new light on the subject. I got to thinking- and even started a whole new thread about it- about what exhausts/stresses me. I'll stick the list here too in case you can find things that point to either inferior function. It's harder for me to sort through them objectively because I can see a lot of these as being representative of either function, and depending on my mood I'll convince myself they're more so one than another.

I've done some heavy reflecting, and here's what I've noticed exhausts or stresses me:

- Thinking about opportunities I've missed/what I could have done differently
- Thinking about how much more I could have accomplished in any given situation had I been more organized or driven
- Basically the contrast between my dream to be self-driven and my reality of being more relaxed is the source of a very significant amount of stress in my life
- Fearing making the wrong decision
- Comparing my past/present to those of others, worrying that I'm missing something
- Knowing that I'll need to know a specific set of facts for an anticipated situation, even if I have them memorized I have this exhausting fear that I won't be able to recall what I need to; e.g. trying to remember driving directions or lines for a play... the actual memorization isn't stressful, but thinking about how I'll need to know it and this obsession that I won't be able to recall it in the moment really freaks me out
- Contradicting myself or feeling uncertainty; a perfect example of this is the whole journey of whether I'm INFP or ENFP, I'm having fun with it, but whenever I think about it too hard and find myself changing my mind about things, I get overwhelmed with uncertainty and it's exhausting
- Wondering how different my idea of myself is from my actual self; it seems selfish, but this actually really freaks me out. In my head I'm Phoebe from Friends but my friend insists I am Chandler, if that made any sense
- Wondering about how I'm perceived by others, but not like in a "What does she think of my outfit" way, it's much more like a feeling that I'm in this outside perspective outside of myself, wondering how I'm perceived by others. I think about this a lot. Like when I'm with younger cousins, I get swamped by memories of how I always viewed my older cousins when I was their age, and the idea that now I'm in that role and is it the same for them and am I living up to it, etc etc (I'm not sure if this one actually exhausts me as the others do, but it's still a thought I get lost in really intensely.)


I can add more as I think, but those were the first things that came to mind. The question is, is anything pointing to inferior Te/Si?


----------



## Stevester (Feb 28, 2016)

It could point to both unfortunately.

Tertiarty Te like all tertiary functions is more balanced, i.e rarely becomes black or white. ExFPs despite their ''wild'' dominant function are still often seen as down to earth thanks to Te. They can easily show an interest in management and efficiency. Their arguments tend to be to the point. Fi takes precedence, but they have an easier time accepting criticism than IxFPs. In IxFPs, Fi is so strong, one misplaced piece of criticism thrown at them can make you an enemy for life. And in their minds it's perfectly valid because they don't judge others and want everyone to just be who they want. 

Sounds like I'm painting ENFPs in a much better light than INFPs but the trade off is that tertiary Si in INFPs makes them usually more stable and think things more thoroughly


----------



## Candy Apple (Sep 10, 2015)

@Hamlet722

Don't worry about dodging the question, I loved reading your response and it made me laugh haha.  Your example of inferior Te as INFPs disliking being told what to do is really interesting, I didn't realize before that the two were related and I definitely relate to that. 
To keep it simple, it's about the Fi-Te dynamic. An INFP has these two functions at opposing ends. Fi operates in a very individualistic manner when it is in the dominant position. It cares about a person being true to who they are, down to the very core. Te comes along and says, I want you to do _this,_ like _everyone else_, and the INFP goes... :shocked::bored: Not only that, the whole subject matter of Te and Fi are different. Te cares about logistics and Fi cares about feelings. It is like Te saying to Fi, put your most important concerns aside and simply, _do this. 
_
Fi and Te have 'different interpretations of the word freedom'; what it means and how to achieve and enjoy it. Where Fi doms would want to be themselves and offer this kind of freedom to everyone, Te dom/aux users would want to figure out a way for everyone to enjoy a sense of "freedom" (you can't take the Fi out of Te dom/aux users). They do this by "providing" you/people with a dynamic system where you can enjoy all the _freedom you want, inside of it. _xD xD

While the concerns of Fi and Te are both important and 'everyone' can see that on a global scale, there's just something about the inferior function will short-circuit people. xD

If I like the authority figure, I'll listen to them. Even if I'm not overly fond of them, if I understand their reasoning and see that they have good intentions, I'm cool. But the second there's an authority figure that I have serious moral problems with, I'm driven insane having to listen to them. 
An ENFP would not like this either, as would I (tert Fi user), but we would all deal with it differently. But again, to keep it simple, it is more telling that you are an INFP because of your choice of word and the intensity of your description.

I definitely resonate more with what you said about talking to people to help them find themselves rather than for ideas, the former is most definitely me. That actually makes a lot of sense too, the ENFPs I know naturally find themselves talking to everyone in the room for the excitement of it all- the thoughts, the ideas, the adventures. I can be like this, but I'm so much less natural at talking to just anyone. I have a sort of radar for people who need someone to talk to or who are troubled. 
I'm glad you know what I'm talking about. I don't think there's any point for me to explain this further; you feel it, you know it.  

And I am so not assertive, haha. I'm the most indirect person. An indirect INFP is a very revealing INFP. It's hard to keep Fi inside. When you feel something that strongly, it comes out. If something bothers me and I'm comfortable with the people I'm around, I'll say it bothers me- and that is the closest to being assertive I will ever come. :welcoming: The other day I was frustrated with the way someone was talking to me via email, and it took everything in me to call him out on it. I thought I was so assertive and laying down the law, but I looked back on the email a few days later and realized literally all I did was ask him what he meant by a certain comment. Who was I kidding- me, assertive? Hah. xD hehe 
You know what though, no matter how an Fi dom tries to keep it in, what comes out is authenticity. That's a +1 in my books. 
ENFPs have a way with advising or correcting someone. They like to use the sandwich method (compliment + :sad: + compliment). They are very fluent in how they go about it and do not seem to struggle with it. You feel how they feel, but at the same time they deliver it with ease, even if they would prefer not to do it.

With INFPs there is strong, strong emotion.

ENFPs and ESFPs have a way that no other types have because of aux Fi and a strong unvalued Fe function.

The largest conflict I've run into with identifying as an INFP is the seemingly universally accepted idea that they have a weakness for championing Fi-driven arguments over more logical ones, often overriding the facts to champion their cause or belief. Perhaps I do this and am just completely oblivious to the fact, but I've always seen myself as a very logical debater. One of my greatest pet peeves is emotionally driven arguments with no factual basis. I love a good cause, but it's hard for me to get behind an argument without solid evidence or logic. Does this completely rule out my chance of being an INFP? Nope. Or is it one of those stereotypes not to be taken so seriously?
An immature person (I did not say immature INFP) could do this, but in general and on a larger scale I'd say it's a misconception. I think this misconception is driven by this link - people see the feeling that is involved, and if an INFP does not balance it with Te, whereby they explain how something can be done about it, others will easily perceive that what they're saying is illogical, as if the INFP has not thought it through... but at the same time, sometimes that is the case. An INFP will focus on feelings but will struggle with expressing themselves through their inferior function, just as another other type. But this should not spill over so easily into INFPs "championing" Fi-driven arguments over more logical ones. They have every right to feel, and feel strongly, but I don't think they need to be categorised so harshly as to say they cannot make use of facts. Implementing a plan to fix the problem is one thing (which can be hard for them to do with inf Te and aux Ne), but disregarding all/most facts is a misconception.

Another thing is how other types will approach INFPs. Could you imagine an INTP going up to an INFP, trying to pull all the logical information out of them, in the manner in which they do it? It can easily and very quickly cause misunderstandings.


I know this is not addressed to me, but, while Stevester has provided you with examples, I want to add that you can agree and disagree with certain sentences regarding inferior Si based on the explanations I have pointed out below.


Hamlet722 said:


> I'm breaking this down with what I identify with for each, just for future reference. I'm placing in bold the ones that immediately stood out to me.
> 
> Inferior Si:
> Inability to find much lasting sentimentality behind experiences. - no, not me at all With dom Fi and tert Si you will definitely find sentimentality behind experiences. Your Si will keep referring you back to how you've felt in the past and it will draw comparisons between how you're feeling now and how you felt before.
> ...





> Though I feel as if I should expand on the organizing thing. I know you may think that you are simply saying this in reply to Stevester, but in my experience you have pointedly singled this out. From all the questionnaires I've read, people will mention traits of their inferior and PoLR function even when they know 'nothing about it'. This is what leads me to believe you are in a sense, doing the same thing. I'm not sure which type this'll point to, but when it comes to organizing, I like it, but I tend to find myself in a disorganized state. That points to inf Te. I clean and rearrange things when I'm stressed, (Exactly! You organise things when you're stressed! The inf function manifests when you're stressed. It does this to different levels depending on the stress (the amount of stress can be small too). like it'll prove to myself that I'm doing something right. Yep. You're pulling out all the stops but it usually doesn't help because it's inferior lol and you prefer to lean on your other functions (it's in that order for a reason!). Anytime I have doubts about something, I organize- whether it be literally organizing drawers and papers or organizing thoughts in a journal. I kind of get in this mentality that if I can organize my surroundings and/or thoughts, organizing myself will follow. xP It doesn't though, right? In my experience I just have to snap out of inf Ne and bring myself to using my functions in order, then only will I be okay, despite external circumstances. If I'm stressed, then disorganization really hits me hard and just amplifies whatever I'm feeling. This, I think, is because most often I am stressed with the idea that I'm not accomplishing enough or making the most of my time, and seeing things disorganized proves this point and causes me to break. This is the loss of reliance on Fi / whatever you did with Fi did not help at that time and you have decided to try out Te. That's why all of a sudden you care about things that a Te user would care about. But it is no where as apt as Te dom/aux/tert users so what you wish to organise will be on a smaller scale. And yeah, your concern for time comes into play because Te users use time as an external measure for their progress. Does that still line up with INFP's inferior Te or is that the anxiety you mention of an ENFP when things sprial out of control?


This is a great description of how inferior Te can manifest.


----------



## Drecon (Jun 20, 2016)

Hamlet722 said:


> @Arzazar Szubrasznikarazar thank you SO MUCH. I never thought about the inferior function exhausting you, and you've placed a whole new light on the subject. I got to thinking- and even started a whole new thread about it- about what exhausts/stresses me. I'll stick the list here too in case you can find things that point to either inferior function. It's harder for me to sort through them objectively because I can see a lot of these as being representative of either function, and depending on my mood I'll convince myself they're more so one than another.
> 
> I've done some heavy reflecting, and here's what I've noticed exhausts or stresses me:
> 
> ...


(I'll go into this one, as this is the exact question that I wanted to ask you)

The first few definitely point towards inferior Te. In general I'd say that it's stressful for you to be decisive and then live with the consequences of your actions. You like to be sure that something is the right thing to do above all else. That is the struggle Fi has with Te. Te wants to find the 'quick fix' to all its problems. We'll find out later if it actually works, we'll just get it done now. 
Fi-doms will often struggle with making decisions and find them stressful. They don't like to be pressured into making decisions because of this. Fi also tends to look back at previous decisions and reflect on them (sometimes going into an Fi-Si loop, where you're constantly reliving your part mistakes (don't worry if that's not you, it's not a good thing to be stuck in)

Based on your answers, I'm definitely seeing you as an INFP.


----------

