# Re-translating Socionics Functions



## Boolean11 (Jun 11, 2012)

How would you guys propose to do so if interested? 

Personally I would dismantle the whole dichotomies as they are currently presented (its a succinct mock up BTW): gentle(Si) vs rough(Se), "own feelings"(Fi) vs "environmental emotional flow"(Fe), efficiency(Te) vs impersonal laws(Ti), Time and underlining meaning(Ni) vs (Ne) creativity. Replacing the dichotomies with the notion that all the functions are have an uncanny similarities that makes them look identical in either the extroverted or introverted attitude. The actual difference would then be re-explained with new metaphors, which are to be clearly indicated as such so as to confuse less people. What needs to be reexplained is the fact that the functions are felt abstractly where people can learn to understand that information is psychologically processed differently, which makes others more likely to gravitate towards each other and some less so, before interpersonal differences with strongly guide a personality. 

This would probably make me carve out my own version of socionics, which I actually realize, though it would be better to have something people can use, understand and actually relate to, sharing the fruit of the theory. Utility and the extreme ease of comprehension is where the challenge is at, especially if desiring to win the MBTI masses.


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## aestrivex (Mar 7, 2011)

see IM elements. my interpretations: Main Page - WSWiki


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## Zero11 (Feb 7, 2010)

Where is the difference between the mbti functions? Bwahahaha I can´t see it.
This should be enough for beginners to find their own Quadra.



> *Sensing*​Se: Individuals who focus on external demands are primarily attuned to their needs with the expectation of acquiring these needs from the outside world; the attention is focused on the contingencies of the outside world and the needs of the individual are seen as being met by effectuating a direct impact on the outside world.
> 
> Si: In contrast, individuals who focus on their internal demands are primarily attuned to the immediate lived circumstances of their being; attention is not focused on what they need from the world, but on the individual's goodness of fit with respect to their world. Assessments are made evaluating their needs not on the efficacy of their direct impact on meeting their own needs, but based on the circumstances of their living, and their ability to indirectly impact their needs by favorably managing these circumstances.
> 
> ...



Alpha: Ti/Fe Si/NeBeta: Ti/Fe Ni/SeGamma: Fi/Te Ni/SeDelta: Fi/Te Si/Ne


INTj-ESFj; ENTp-ISFpINFp-ESTp; ENFj-ISTjINTp-ESFp; ENTj-ISFjINFj-ESTj; ENFp-ISTp


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## Boolean11 (Jun 11, 2012)

aestrivex said:


> see IM elements. my interpretations: Main Page - WSWiki


Interesting, I've pretty much started my own and my challenge is the same as your, making it succinct but faithful to socionics.


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## caesar (Oct 9, 2010)

This is exactly what I came back to these forums to talk about. I really feel that socionics had the right idea with describing inter-personal relations, but it can be improved.


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## aestrivex (Mar 7, 2011)

Zero11 said:


> > Rather, dispositions towards others and private sentiments is the _primary_ focus of *Fi* types,


you have a rather important typo.


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## Zero11 (Feb 7, 2010)

aestrivex said:


> you have a rather important typo.


Shit that was close!


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## Boolean11 (Jun 11, 2012)

caesar said:


> This is exactly what I came back to these forums to talk about. I really feel that socionics had the right idea with describing inter-personal relations, but it can be improved.


The bias against those with different functions needs to be reinterpreted since it seems to tarnish things especially when people notice that their supposed "conflictor" is not really as terrible as it predicts. It just makes it seem like it was intentionally spreading poison to future relations with such types. However I have to add a caveat that I don't disagree with the relations since I appreciate that their reasoning was sound when they made some types a bit more difficult.


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## Sleepy (Jan 18, 2009)

I like Gulenko's short names for the elements.

Ne Intuition
Ni Time

Si Sensation
Se Force

Te Fact
Ti Law

Fe Emotion
Fi Relation


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## cyamitide (Jul 8, 2010)

^ only those don't work

Fi similarly to Ti is a static, rational element that finds it own laws and regularities. If you don't believe me, take a look at all the ILIs who are interested in typology which allows them to create their own static guidelines and paradigms and categorize people in accordance, even though this is something attributed to Ti. Se is a passive perceptive element and as such it cannot be "force" - it has no vector. Ne-valuers are capable of telling time. Ti people can optimize tasks to make them more efficient. The list goes on. 

Right now the definitions of IEs are very much lacking likely because they represent some abstract properties that cannot be reified and described so simplistically.


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## Boolean11 (Jun 11, 2012)

cyamitide said:


> ^ only those don't work
> 
> Fi similarly to Ti is a static, rational element that finds it own laws and regularities. If you don't believe me, take a look at all the ILIs who are interested in typology which allows them to create their own static guidelines and paradigms and categorize people in accordance, even though this is something attributed to Ti. Se is a passive perceptive element and as such it cannot be "force" - it has no vector. Ne-valuers are capable of telling time. Ti people can optimize tasks to make them more efficient. The list goes on.
> 
> Right now the definitions of IEs are very much lacking likely because they represent some abstract properties that cannot be reified and described so simplistically.


When those "Fi" guidelines are very cold and harsh it can make them seem aristocratic, giving the illusion of being impersonal.


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## Kanerou (Oct 8, 2009)

I tend to think of Ti as more rigid than Fi (but then, I'm a Fi valuer). Like, Ti applies a certain judgment across the board regardless of feeling. "This is how it always is." In that sense, Ti is much like our laws. As an Fi valuer, I've come to realize that much of what I put forth as "thou must always" is not something I follow myself; I am incredibly subjective. How I react to someone is quite dependent on my given relationship with that person, and what feels perfectly fine from one person may piss me off or make me seize up internally coming from someone else.

-------------------------------------------------------

At the risk of wading back into the muck, I came up with a good example of how Si does not equal "gentle". I have an infected cyst in my armpit; it's been infected since August, and the antibiotics only succeed in pushing it back, not curing it. I recently got stupid and wasn't taking my antibiotics for a while, and I found the infection spreading into the tissue connecting arm to ribcage. I went back on the meds immediately, only to find they either didn't work enough or didn't work at all. 

I got into the urgent care a couple of days ago and informed the doctor of the problem. He offered different antibiotics (I told him which ones had worked for me last time the infection got bad) and pain meds. I was hesitant about accepting the prescription for pain meds. First of all, I virtually never take painkillers; it's just not something I do. More importantly, most of the pain I experience is when I try to lift my arm above my head, straighten my elbow, or reach too far (the swelling is really limiting my mobility in that arm). The pain is aggravating, but it's not unbearable. To me, that pain signals that I'm pushing my arm too far, and I've adapted somewhat to my limitations within those boundaries. I would rather be able to hear what my body is telling me, even if it communicates in an unpleasant manner, and adjust my habits than to shut off my body's signals and risk hurting myself further. To me this is a very Si way of dealing with the situation.

(For those curious, I did take the prescription for pain meds. However, my father, who understands and agrees with the above concerns, convinced me to just hold onto it for now; the pain's not that bad, and I'm low on funds until Friday, so he reasoned that it's better to save my money and not spend it on pills I may not even use.)


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## itsme45 (Jun 8, 2012)

Kanerou said:


> At the risk of wading back into the muck, I came up with a good example of how Si does not equal "gentle". I have an infected cyst in my armpit; it's been infected since August, and the antibiotics only succeed in pushing it back, not curing it. I recently got stupid and wasn't taking my antibiotics for a while, and I found the infection spreading into the tissue connecting arm to ribcage. I went back on the meds immediately, only to find they either didn't work enough or didn't work at all.
> 
> I got into the urgent care a couple of days ago and informed the doctor of the problem. He offered different antibiotics (I told him which ones had worked for me last time the infection got bad) and pain meds. I was hesitant about accepting the prescription for pain meds. First of all, I virtually never take painkillers; it's just not something I do. More importantly, most of the pain I experience is when I try to lift my arm above my head, straighten my elbow, or reach too far (the swelling is really limiting my mobility in that arm). The pain is aggravating, but it's not unbearable. To me, that pain signals that I'm pushing my arm too far, and I've adapted somewhat to my limitations within those boundaries. I would rather be able to hear what my body is telling me, even if it communicates in an unpleasant manner, and adjust my habits than to shut off my body's signals and risk hurting myself further. To me this is a very Si way of dealing with the situation.
> 
> (For those curious, I did take the prescription for pain meds. However, my father, who understands and agrees with the above concerns, convinced me to just hold onto it for now; the pain's not that bad, and I'm low on funds until Friday, so he reasoned that it's better to save my money and not spend it on pills I may not even use.)


Interesting  Now Si or not Si, but I also don't take painkillers... simple reason, I haven't had any long lasting pain that would have needed me to take painkillers for it. I could easily say that "it's just not something I do", like you said. E.g. if I ever start to get a headache, I just tell it to go away and it goes  that kind of headache is probably something psychological anyway. I like your approach too, about the body telling you what's up. More information about anything is always better


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