# PhD



## Inheritance (Jul 20, 2014)

I'm currently in sixth-grade-college taking my A-levels. Or more exactly I'll be a sophomore student next year since I'm currently only a freshman. Therefore I still have about 1 ½ years to decide where to go.

I'm very interested in the humanitarian subjects such as philosophy, psychology, religion, history, social studies, health education. Especially philosophy, that's something I really burn for. In university I'm planning on studying Philosophy as my main subject and perhaps theology, psychology as my secondary subjects.

The same however isn't true to the hard-sciences such as chemistry, physics and mathematics and therefore I haven't picked any additional courses in these (Except for mathematics which i'll take an A-level in). I believe physics and chemistry to be fairly important subjects to take A-levels in aswell as attending it's classes, but I just can't seem to enjoy it. Nor would I like close to any careers that requires it, so was my decision correct? Then again; Taking it will allow me the possibility to decide in the future.

Getting a PhD in philosophy is also one of my future goals, after I've first become a Teacher who earns an income good enough to afford the studies.

Something important to note here is that I'm from Finland (With similar school system as Sweden) so therefore what works here might be a little different from e.g. the other side of the world and vice versa.

But reading about PhD I've heard that a lot of people have given negative feedback on PhD (Doctor of Philosophy). Some sources claim that 
- "Philosophy is dead" 
- "Philosophy is more of a history class nowadays" 
- "Philosophy will give you 3 years of joy but the study loan will be enormous"
- "Philosophy won't give you a career - Since you don't need philosophy for a lot of work nowadays"

I also saw that similar feedback was given to theology. Some people claim Theology isn't worth it either.

Has anyone studied Philosophy as a main subject, planned on taking PhD or anything of that kind?
Is it better to go with Psychology (Or Theology) over PhD?
What's your story? What can you tell me (and others) who have yet to make this choice?


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## White River (Feb 13, 2011)

1. A PhD is a general term given to someone who undertakes a research degree. It is not specific to the subject of philosophy, despite the name. Also I'm confused whether you are asking about choosing an undergraduate degree or asking about going into research in future.

2. Do what you are interested in and care about. Yes there are other degrees that are more vocational and have more immediate career prospects, but if your goal is to remain in academia and teaching then do a PhD. Just depends what your goals are. There is no better or worse, unless you are only concerned with maximising income.


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## Bote (Jun 16, 2010)

What White River said.

As for philosophy:

- "Philosophy is dead" false, only an idiot can say this.
- "Philosophy is more of a history class nowadays" false, there are different approaches to studying.
​- "Philosophy won't give you a career - Since you don't need philosophy for a lot of work nowadays" true, it is TOUGH earning a living with a philosophy degree IF you don't become a teacher or an academic.

Philosophy ROCKS if you know how to approach it and know how to make a selection of useful knowledge and information you end up reading. Otherwise, it can make a person confused for life and this is nowhere close to being a good thing. But, if you are a philosopher who is also a DOER, who EXPERIMENTS with ideas and thoughts, who SELECTS vital information and disgards cognitive crap like e.g. some solipsistic and nihilistic ideas, then I guess you will be fine.

Philosophy is also evolving as a discipline. There is something called experimental philosophy currently in the making. In a decade, it will have become a full blown discipline. So that is one of the possible paths to take as a philosopher in the 21st century.


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## angularvelocity (Jun 15, 2009)

I usually don't come across philosophy majors (or those who majored) but when I do, I order a size of medium fries.


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## TML3193 (Jan 27, 2015)

Bote said:


> What White River said.
> 
> As for philosophy:
> 
> ...


Very good post. Only a fool would believe that philosophy is dead. It isn't a history class either. 
The third one, regarding a career, is the most contestable of course. It is indeed tough to earn a living with a philosophy degree ALONE. I'm not sure how it is in Finland, but here in North America, the same can be said for most Liberal Arts degrees. A person with a BA in English or history will have just as difficult a time seeking employment as a philosophy graduate. However, as a philosophy graduate myself, I would argue that philosophy provides you the tools to excel in other, more specialized fields of interest. 

Think of your potential philosophy degree as the foundation - it gives you critical thinking skills, heightens analytical reasoning, provides you the tools to simplify dense and complex readings, and more. It's easier to build a house with a strong foundation than without one. Personally, I would not recommend trying to make a living off of a philosophy degree itself, as you won't have many specific or hands-on skills. Even if you pursue graduate studies in philosophy, all you're doing is strengthening that foundation, you still won't have workplace skills. It all depends on what YOU want. 

Keep in mind, the academic life is not glamorous. Unless you are very, very lucky in a progressive academic field, you won't have luxurious living. You'll really have to derive most of your pleasure and purpose out of your studies. I've had professors living paycheck to paycheck. One of my best professors was a political philosopher with a PhD in philosophy from Harvard, he doesn't have enough money to afford a car. He lives in a small flat with very modest surroundings not out of choice, but by necessity. If earnings and a good living are important to you, I would reevaluate the thought of a PhD in philosophy.

I'm a guy with a Specialized Honours Bachelor of Arts in Philosophy, specialized in law and social thought. I used my degree to get into the top law school in my North American country. So you've got many options, just be sure to evaluate them and figure out what your end goal is, so you don't waste your time and money. 

Best of luck.


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## Inheritance (Jul 20, 2014)

*@White River*



> 1. A PhD is a general term given to someone who undertakes a research degree. It is not specific to the subject of philosophy, despite the name. Also I'm confused whether you are asking about choosing an undergraduate degree or asking about going into research in future.
> 
> 2. Do what you are interested in and care about. Yes there are other degrees that are more vocational and have more immediate career prospects, but if your goal is to remain in academia and teaching then do a PhD. Just depends what your goals are. There is no better or worse, unless you are only concerned with maximising income.


Unfortunately I don't know what some of the academic terms are in english, but I'll try my best to roughly translate it from swedish.

After sixth-form-college I'm planning on studying "*Philosophy*, candidate in humanitarian sciences" - Which is a 3 years study program - *180 S(tudy) P(oints)* with *pedagogy* as a secondary subject *(60 SP)*. However, I'd also like to to study *Psychology* and *Theology* as secondary subjects, but from my understanding it's restricted to two secondary subjects (Seeing 60 SP X3 (Main + 2 secondary subjects) equals up to 180 SP totally, meaning a third secondary subject would equal 240 SP. But I heard that it should be possible if studying longer in the academic field. My student counsellor told me that there isn't many workplaces open specifically for Philosophers and if planning on teaching I should preferably also have a secondary subject. Here I suggested religion (Which will be theology in this case) or I could study Theology with the intention of becoming a Priest.

After "Philosophy, candidate in humanitarian sciences" I'm planning on going for *Philosophy M.Sc* (2 years, 120 SP) in total. But this I have yet to look more into, whether or not it's necessary and if having a M.Sc is a good thing. *Could someone counsel me?*

*I'm very into scholasticism* (see Thomas Aquinas) - Combining philosophy and theology, so that's what I'm most open to. But unfortunately I'm afraid not many places can bring a scholastic person such as myself to enjoy a work simultaneously as it brings food to the table. 

*But that's why I believe the academia fits me best*, but then again research also does - But it's far riskier due to paychecks for researching, and if not finding anything, well then no paychecks.

*The title PhD itself isn't necessary*, but if it's required to teach at university level then I might consider it. Otherwise I might forcefully settle down with sixth-form-college teaching.

Last but not least, I'm not concerned with maximising income. I'm fine living a minimalistic life as long as I can afford doing what I want to do during past time. This doesn't mean expensive trips or anything of the like, but more after paying the bills, I'm still having something extra every month for unprepared issues.

*@Bote*



> What White River said.
> 
> As for philosophy:
> 
> ...


I believe philosophy rocks too, but I don't know whether or not I'm open for solipsistic and nihilistic ideas. As Aristotle said "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." which is somethin I do in my every day life. But I've difficulty actually believing in something; I somehow always remain open-minded to possibilities but if someone asks me "What do *you* believe?" and I can't answer in terms of possiblities, then I've difficulty knowing what I actually believe. 

But one thing I do believe (Except that philosophy rocks) is that young as I am (17) I still have a long way to go. My development is far from ready and I still lack life experience. This is why I can't say with confidence whether I will become a doer, an experimenter and a selector. God knows what will become of me in the future, but for now I'll stick with what I burn for.

Also, I haven't heard anything about philosophy evolving as a discipline, are there any sources to this?

*@TML3193 *



> Very good post. Only a fool would believe that philosophy is dead. It isn't a history class either.
> The third one, regarding a career, is the most contestable of course. It is indeed tough to earn a living with a philosophy degree ALONE. I'm not sure how it is in Finland, but here in North America, the same can be said for most Liberal Arts degrees. A person with a BA in English or history will have just as difficult a time seeking employment as a philosophy graduate. However, as a philosophy graduate myself, I would argue that philosophy provides you the tools to excel in other, more specialized fields of interest.


I've decided to split up your reply since it's too long. It encourages me to see that there's not only negative critisism towards philosophy.



> Think of your potential philosophy degree as the foundation - it gives you critical thinking skills, heightens analytical reasoning, provides you the tools to simplify dense and complex readings, and more. It's easier to build a house with a strong foundation than without one. Personally, I would not recommend trying to make a living off of a philosophy degree itself, as you won't have many specific or hands-on skills. Even if you pursue graduate studies in philosophy, all you're doing is strengthening that foundation, you still won't have workplace skills. It all depends on what YOU want.


If I quote Scar from Lion King and make his quote my own, the following is what I'd say: "As far as brains go, I got my share. But, when it comes to hands-on skills... I'm afraid I'm at the shallow end of the gene pool."

It makes sense what you say about a strong foundation. I'm not sure that what I'm doing is good or bad, but instead of studying areas I'm naturally bad at I study things i naturally excel at, regardless if these subjects lead anywhere. If I use History as an example here: I like history, the further back in time the more interesting (Or well, the ancient greece is the most interesting). I also have good memory skills, so I can sit and memorize a whole lot of details, for example the year something happened. But the thing is, since I've studied it before I don't often learn anything new, I just repeat to strengthen my memory. Physics on the other hand I don't like, at least not the way it's taught in school. I also have difficulty remembering the details. But perhaps there's something 'Holistic' (Learning in on the whole instead of detail-level) I could perhaps learn something. Afterall I don't deny that physics is an important subject and required for many areas. But I have a tendency to stick to areas I excel naturally at.

And I'm on the same mindset as you are. It's not worth making an income on the philosophy degree alone - Although being an armchair philosopher would be ideal for me.



> Keep in mind, the academic life is not glamorous. Unless you are very, very lucky in a progressive academic field, you won't have luxurious living. You'll really have to derive most of your pleasure and purpose out of your studies. I've had professors living paycheck to paycheck. One of my best professors was a political philosopher with a PhD in philosophy from Harvard, he doesn't have enough money to afford a car. He lives in a small flat with very modest surroundings not out of choice, but by necessity. If earnings and a good living are important to you, I would reevaluate the thought of a PhD in philosophy.


I'd rather have too much money than too little, that way I have my options open to a life in poverty or luxory. Too little money on the other hand never gives me the option to choose that independantly. So it's not that earnings and a good living is incredibly important to me, but as I told White River:

I'm not concerned with maximising income. I'm fine living a minimalistic life as long as I can afford doing what I want to do during past time. This doesn't mean expensive trips or anything of the like, but more after paying the bills, I'm still having something extra every month for unprepared issues.



> I'm a guy with a Specialized Honours Bachelor of Arts in Philosophy, specialized in law and social thought. I used my degree to get into the top law school in my North American country. So you've got many options, just be sure to evaluate them and figure out what your end goal is, so you don't waste your time and money.
> 
> Best of luck.


I will, thank you and everyone else for replying.


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