# Which MBTI type is the most feminine?



## Third Engine

*Puts on glasses* Statistically speaking, 
ISFJs make up 15% of the female population
ESFJs make uo 14% of the female population
ESFPs make up 11% of the female population
ISFPs make up 10% of the population

I think the only obvious traits one can draw from this is that the stereotypical female is xSFx. But these are just numbers, not cultural concepts:tongue:

[source]


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## VenusMisty

ESFP could be pretty feminine. According to Kiersey and Bates this is a type that is seen as feminine.


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## Mutatio NOmenis

*Revives thread.* ^That's what she said...



























































And I agree with it.


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## Functianalyst

Miyuki said:


> Which type and/or traits would you consider the most feminine, and *why*?


You do know that type has no bearing or is not remotely connected to traits, right? Although Jung says that he found females prefer Fe, Fi and Ne and males prefer Te, Se and Ti, he as well as most authors say that type is not about traits. In fact Jung and others who imply that females prefer feeling and men thinking, are merely showing their chauvinism, and the reason that authors have to post disclaimers reminding us of those who mis-type due to western culture's social expectations.


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## FrozenFire

Most feminine is ESFJ.


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## dimane

ENTJ most masculine and INFP most feminine
dudes are agressive and women are humane
being *role directive, pragmatic, and structure focused* and expressive=aggressive
being *role info, affiliative, and motive focused* and attentive =humane
so all thinkers are 2/3 and feelers are 2/3
so yeah and dueces


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## Eric B

Yes, I too was going to say that role-informative (which will be generally more softer) will seem more feminine. I don't see why iNtuition in particular is associated with femininity. If anything, I would think that Sensing would go along more with the image of a lovely wife. (iNtuition might make for more of a mindmate for another N, but that's not really the traditional "feminine" stereotype).

So I wouldn't say NFJ (which is directive); I'd think SF types (J or P) followed by NFP. 
NFJ's might have more of a spunk to them, however, which men like, especially mixed with the Fe sweetness.


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## unico

I could also see females as more "extroverted" given, on average, women supposedly have more developed social skills than men and talk more in a day than men (so I hear). So maybe ENFJ?


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## Zster

I abhor stereotyping and gender role "assignment" even more. That said, I find it oddly depressing that almost unanimously people think of introversion as feminine. Such smacks of our culture's patriarchial mindset, which, IMO should have become outdated since the 1960s or 70s.

Why is an INFP considered feminine but an ENFP not? I am guessing because ENFPs are not submissive enough to make tarzan type males feel the superiority they apparently crave. Not to say that the majority of males are tarzan types, mind you.

I honestly find the whole idea anitquated and am saddened to see younger generations still perpetuating the stereotype.

Eh - nothing bad for me personally. I know where I am and can easily use such a tool to weed out insecure types who would not suit me anyway. (;


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## TechnoViking

It's definitely ISFJ. Often, (according to personality description pages) they let their friends walk over them like a doormat, and a very soft hearted, quiet, etc...


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## dimane

thinking dom masculine
feeling dom feminine
enfp and entp share the same dominant function so it would go INFP then ENFP


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## RyanJF

My male INFP ex-friend is a total fairy. The kid had notebooks and notebooks full of the most horrendous and distasteful poetry imaginable. Ew. 

Nothing on poets and their craft, but when a line reads, "and i watched the blood run down in bright shining red tears as soft the crimson moon reflected in the briny waves of the pale ocean full of salt and crustaceans and other seafaring creatures"... well, it's enough to make you reconsider your friendship with a person.


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## mrbluey

That sounded arduous. Did you remember that for the sole purpose of regurgitating it in disgust?

There is no true 'feminine MBTI type', of course, except in our preconceptions of gender archetypes.
Stereotypically though, I think the only divide among the four axes would be F for females and T for males.


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## Strayfire

Well, based on society's constructions, INFPs I'd argue appear to be far more feminine. 

I speaking out of experience, I've been wrongly called female too many times.


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## dagnytaggart

thehigher said:


> fuck gender roles. lord knows we already buy into them too much anyway. if you disagree please say so. I'd love to argue.
> 
> 
> ....not to mention they don't make sense.
> 
> Meyers-Briggs Statistics
> 
> here is a link to show you that nothing about the stereotypes are right except for a slight majority of men are more T than F. But it can be argued that that is merely because of the gender roles they are expected to fill.


Holy shit...so there _are_ more feelers in the general pop than thinkers...so I'm not imagining it...


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## etherealuntouaswithin

I've seen SJ females refered to as the most traditionally feminine..but most SJ females i've known (estj,esfj,istj) are actually quite tough and resiliant...in a traditionally manly way.

I can see Dom Fi females as probably the fountain from which people receive the feminine standard.


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## kiwigrl

amanda32 said:


> I've always wanted to be more stereotypically feminine but...ah...can't? I feel weird.
> Though I really do love, getting dressed up, doing my make-up putting on a great skirt and blouse and going out on the town; I love how feminine I feel at those times. But it's a lot of effort! And I rarely do it.


 Haha you little weirdo... let me show you the ropes, I have been emerced in it from a young age. I just love it when I go to a friends house and we get ready together from the clothes to the finishing touches like makeup and perfume, straightening the hair lol. I haven't done that since a girls week in Sydney a couple of years ago.

Ultimately I think femininity is shown by a soft & caring heart, someone who nurtures others. Well at least that is what I think of when I think of my own femininity. I'm proud to be someone who feels deeply and loves easily. 

Outwardly there are many different facets of it but I embrace all of the feminine things like shopping for jewellery, clothes, shoes, makeup, nail polish etc. I particularly love makeup. I should be a makeup artist.


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## kiwigrl

Oh and the INFP I know (my sister in law) is rather tomboyish imo. So I disagree with the stance of the earlier posters regarding them being the most feminine. Though of course it's a bit presumptious to think that all INFPs aren't very feminine.


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## mrbluey

MBTI type statistics are badly documented.
I recall a page from the INFJorINFP website talking about statistical bearing of types.
Can't link it here though; too few posts :s


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## MuChApArAdOx

etherealuntouaswithin said:


> I've seen SJ females refered to as the most traditionally feminine..but most SJ females i've known (estj,esfj,istj) are actually quite tough and resiliant...in a traditionally manly way.
> 
> I can see Dom Fi females as probably the fountain from which people receive the feminine standard.


Is the OP referring to feminine as in grace or appearance ? Does feminine mean women who wear dresses and skirts ? Or women who are graceful in expression ? Not sure what is being described as feminine.


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## LadyO.W.BernieBro

*shrug* I'm plenty feminine but I suppose the *classic* All American feminine woman is an ESFJ.

Bubbly, not too strange or intellectual, sensitive yet responsible.

And this doesn't mean every ESFJ will fit this description, ESFJ may be extroverted without being bubbly but the "classic" bubbly, feminine woman will probably type as ESFJ.


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## SuperNova85

Although I find this to be a pretty subjective topic, I find the ENFJ to the most "delightfully" feminine to my personal taste: Sexy, Intelligent, Charming etc...but yeah, the most standard "fem" type seems to be the ESFJ.


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## formal riot

As a male ESFJ.... yea unfortunately this. It seems ESFJ's are regarded as the mother hen of their respective social group.


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## kaychivers

ha. that's nice to know that i am 'feminine'


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## Sapphyreopal5

Hmmm, I guess that if you look at it from a stereotypical view of feminine women, I would have to say ESFJ (thinking of the stereotypical mother) or the ESFP (thinking of the stereotypical indecisive woman  ). Obviously any MBTI can be feminine but I would have to say those 2 are more inclined to be considered "feminine". Following those 2 I would say are the ENFX types.


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## dejavu

Probably ESFJ or ISFJ.


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## SweetPickles

_"_While the defining characteristics of femininity are not universally identical, some patterns exist.Gentleness, empathy, sensitivity, caring,compassion, tolerance, nurturance, deference,self-abasement, and succorance are behaviors generally considered feminine.[SUP][7][/SUP][SUP][8][/SUP][SUP][16][/SUP][SUP][17]"

That was quoted from wiki:

I would say INFP, ISFJ, INFJ, ISFP, ESFJ are the most feminine personalities. Depends on the woman as well.

ISFJs in the most traditional sense.

The least I would say ENTP.[/SUP]


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## At0m05

my vote is in esfj's And even more so on xsfp's


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## At0m05

MelanieM said:


> _"_While the defining characteristics of femininity are not universally identical, some patterns exist.Gentleness, empathy, sensitivity, caring,compassion, tolerance, nurturance, deference,self-abasement, and succorance are behaviors generally considered feminine.[SUP][7][/SUP][SUP][8][/SUP][SUP][16][/SUP][SUP][17]"
> 
> That was quoted from wiki:
> 
> I would say INFP, ISFJ, INFJ, ISFP, ESFJ are the most feminine personalities. Depends on the woman as well.
> 
> ISFJs in the most traditional sense.
> 
> The least I would say ENTP.[/SUP]


Oh yea! Intersting point - i don't think least feminine means most masculine :/ eh?


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## Doom

ISFJ is the most common female type iirc though I'd say over all ESFJs, though I see a lot of younger females as ESFP.

As it was mentioned females focus more on being outgoing and chatting, though I think this is more of a cultural thing.

Sensors types especially Si types seem more like the ones to put emphasis on their gender where as seem to not like the idea of being bound to feminine/masculine traits.

Sadly most people associate F with being feminine and T being masculine and forget we have both, unfortunately this mentality will never go away.

I can see both J and P as being masculine and feminine depending on what you are looking at.


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## WardRhiannon

ISFJ or ESFJ. The quiet, gentle, nuturing mother or the overprotective mama-bear and housewife.


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## toffee

If we're going on stereotypes then absolutely E/ISFJ, followed by INFP.


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## jdbullet23

Oh, I would definitely say ENFJs are the most conventionally feminine of the types.

E: Very sociable, friendly, lively, and chatty. Of course, these are not strictly feminine traits, but I'd imagine that for the most part, women are seen as the friendly ones, the talkative, giggly, social hens. Also, the characteristic of gosiping and chattering to friends about dating problems or lady issues is more associated with the fairer sex ...

N: The ability to dream up possibilities, get lost in their own ideas, walk around with their heads in the clouds, and love to make connections where there may not be any, or read too deeply into things. Paired with extroversion, and soon, with feeling, this brings to mind the worried wife who wants to know what her spouse or friends or children are feeling, why, and how they can solve their unresolved issues. It sounds like a woman who wants to try a new recipe, or yoga class, or meditation rutein, every week.

F: This should be pretty self explanatory. soft hearted, kind, considerate, compassionate, easily get their feelings hurt, emotionally aware and expressive (based on E), etc. All pretty conventionally feminine traits.

J: Love of order and neatness, socially conforming, a bit strict about following the rules as they are written, sometimes uptight about deadlines, like perfection in the home and work space. I don't know, this is all just very feminine to me.

So, in the light of this, ISTPs are the most masculine. Like the stereotype of the silent tough guy. Independent, controled, quiet, sees things as they are, logical, practical, and not too troubled about self image or fitting. Also doesn't go bonkers over neatness.[/I][/I][/I][/I]


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## scorpion

I say ISFJs.


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## Glenda Gnome Starr

estj
Aren't there a lot of cartoons and slapstick comedy routines with a Big Boss Lady and a Henpecked husband?
I'd say that the Big Boss Lady is an estj.
hahahahaha!!!!


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## MelBel

Zster said:


> I abhor stereotyping and gender role "assignment" even more. That said, I find it oddly depressing that almost unanimously people think of introversion as feminine. Such smacks of our culture's patriarchial mindset, which, IMO should have become outdated since the 1960s or 70s.
> 
> Why is an INFP considered feminine but an ENFP not? I am guessing because ENFPs are not submissive enough to make tarzan type males feel the superiority they apparently crave. Not to say that the majority of males are tarzan types, mind you.
> 
> I honestly find the whole idea anitquated and am saddened to see younger generations still perpetuating the stereotype.
> 
> Eh - nothing bad for me personally. I know where I am and can easily use such a tool to weed out insecure types who would not suit me anyway. (;




Everything you said here were all the thoughts I was thinking as I was reading this as well. I can't believe what I've read and the stereotyping on introvertedness as feminine. To be honest I kinda though introvertedness was slightly more masculine, you know, the "strong silent type" sort of thing. And then, some guy saying that ENFPs and ENFJs are the LEAST feminine! That's the opposite of what I've been told in my life! But, yeah, it's all a little disturbing which for some reason I didn't expect coming into the thread.


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## MelBel

@smoke ...... and ENFP (more selfish, daring and typical feminists).[/QUOTE]



Hey, thanks for compliment to the ENFPs! I've always bee told how feminine I am, btw. Also, not selfish, and I would not call myself "typical" feminist, either. Have you even met an ENFP before?


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## SweetPickles

I think INFP is the most feminine, while ESFJ and ISFJs are considered the most feminine in a domestic way. I think ENTJs and ISTPs are the most masculine, while ESTJs, ESTPs are more mainstream masculine.

I think ISTJs are the most gender neutral. 

This will get people who don't see female/male energies as real in a huff but I cannot resist (in no particular order):

Feminine: ISFP, ESFJ, ISFJ, INFP, ENFJ, ENFP
Masculine: ESTP, ISTP, ESTJ, ENTJ, INTJ, INTP
Neutral: ESFP, ISTJ, and possibly INFJ (although a bit more fem) ENTPs (although a bit more masc)


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## 11thNight

Most traditionally feminine= ISFJ

What is masculine and feminine seems to be based on stereotypes anyway. What is innately different between characteristics of males and females is probably actually very small.


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## Grandmaster Yoda

J love of cleanliness but P indecisiveness when choosing clothing. Those are the hardest ones because J and P traits are often mixed together.


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## surgery

Well, I'm an INFP male and I've always been pretty obviously feminine in most people's consideration. As a child, I explicitly preferred virtually all activities that were intended for females more than activities intended for males. In other words, I played with dolls and pretended I was the little mermaid instead of playing sports and "rough-housing" :/

Likewise, I think I've always been "unassertive", "quiet", "cooperative", "compassionate", "affectionate", etc. Also, I was better at spelling and art than at math, which, for whatever reason, is something that boys are supposed to be good at. So, people interpret these as feminine traits because they're "nurturing" qualities instead of "competitive" ones. 

Even as an adult, I realized I haven't changed much in terms of my general temperament--daydreamy, quiet, procrastinating, often moody and aloof, curious, etc. Strong dislike of competition, aggression and most crude jokes. 

I'm also attracted to the same sex, which didn't really help make me seem more masculine. By the time I was 13 or 14, I was very aware of all this and it became part of my self-image. I started wearing girls jeans because I was into the tight pants look. Still am, actually and I still get the same head turns and awkward stares. There are other things too--I love dancing to Lady Gaga. I smile and laugh easily…idk you get the picture.

Obviously, not all INFP men are like this. In fact, my older brother used to wear girls jeans. He's switched to fitted mens jeans now that he's older, but in a way, he's still smaller framed and less physically "intimidating" than other guys. With that said, he's straight. He also smokes, drinks, curses like a sailor and rides a motorcycle, so I don't think people see him as effeminate, just "alternative" and "vintage." He's some kind of EXXP.


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## Blazy

Strictly going by stereotypes, based on my experiences, ENFP is the most feminine. If you're an ENFP male, don't worry, many girls love you. Embrace your femininity. That's what makes you alpha, being true to who you are.


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## ozones

Athanasia said:


> Thank you for your insight on these types according to your personal experiences...just this morning wow. Do you usually ask women if they think they are feminine? I think I am  Just curious about your last sentence there and what you are implying. I'm sure I am just reading it wrong. I agree, that the feminine ideal is NOT someone who is insecure, submissive and an emotional mess either. I stand by my opinion though, sorry you disagree.


The ISFJ was my cousin who gave me a ride to work. The INFP was my friends sister who was sullenly sitting at her laptop in my friends dining room, I had to pick something up from her. 

Most people don't categorize themselves as masculine or feminine, that why i was curious to see what the most voted type for this thread felt about it. And like i said she's like what are you talking about.

Huh at the last part I'm not sure what your talking aboutttt


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## SweetPickles

ENTP women are pretty masculine, my sister is one.


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## Chest

Entj


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## VoodooDolls

I suppose INFJs and their Fe maybe?, ESFJ???, gayish INFPs?
I consider myself to be pretty feminine in my gesticulations. I mean not always but once a while i feel like a woman.


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## Alysaria

Here's the thing about gender stereotypes: they change.

They change over time, based on class, by culture, etc... 

The "ideal" man has been a brutish jerk who doesn't take crap from anyone, punches out bears for fun, and is less likely to show emotion than a rock. He's also been a mincing beauty who wouldn't dare go out without a corset, mountains of lace, powder, patches, and an enormous, decorative wig.

The "ideal" woman has gone from being a curvy, voluptuously bold temptress to a slender reed of demure shyness and everywhere in between. 

Even if we're talking modern times, there's a huge difference between what defines masculinity and femininity from culture to culture...and even within the same cultures. Masculine can draw up quietly stoic or boldly confrontational - these are opposing ideas that still fall within that blanket definition. 

The only really "universal" (I hate using that word here, because it's misleading) gender differences have to do with physiology (hormonal, neurological, etc differences), and even those are exaggerated.


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## FallingSlowly

Ahferfeckssake!

Pardon my French, but what is this?

Define "feminine" (there's the first problem), and then explain how _an individual _definition of feminine (that's all it is) ties in with cognitive functions (or MBTI if you so wish). Good luck with that already. 
Then find a good sample of people of the same type who are exactly that type of feminine. And then go back to square one, because it's still only one definition of feminine.

Yeah... but no.


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## Antipode

Infj
esfx
isfj


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## SouthernSaxon

Hard to know as it can vary individually a _*lot*_ (I've noticed it on the forum). So you really have to average it out.

I don't have enough experience to make firm calls in this one, but knowing how I am and keeping the descriptions of the various personality types in mind, probably INFJs would be the easiest. ISFJs wouldn't be that hard either. I don't really know though, maybe I should list the most important personality traits to me:
Loyalty, understanding ("gets me"), patience, organisation, artistic

...and turn offs
Arrogance, bitching, feminism, long sexual history (i.e. slut)


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## SweetPickles

Chest said:


> Entj


Ahh yes, forgot about those...ENTJs, INFPs and ISFJs basically ooze femininity. Good call.


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## Swede

INTJ! Trust me!


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## Chest

Swede said:


> INTJ! Trust me!


I dated an INTJ once, her feminine side appears when she likes someone, even her voice changed it's very weird


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## Swede

Chest said:


> I dated an INTJ once, her feminine side appears when she likes someone, even her voice changed it's very weird


Mhm, makes a lot of sense. INTJs generally only let down their guard around people they trust or are infatuated by.

But, what is funny about this post (to me), is that 'femininity' is very subjective. Unless femininity is defined and agreed upon, it really can't be used in a way that makes sense. Some see femininity as strength and determination, some see femininity as warmth and a nurturing nature.

If I don't claim that INTJ is the most feminine MBTI, I am essentially betraying my own person - makes sense, right?


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## SweetPickles

Oh crap! INFJ #1 most female of all time then :lol:


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## athenian200

monemi said:


> Oh yes, because that's what ISFJ's are good for. Maids.


I was half-joking because I don't take the concept of a type being "feminine" very seriously to begin with.

But I do know that I wouldn't be very good at a lot of the stereotypically feminine/maid jobs, and that I'm a lot more spaced-out and geeky than most women. I'm good at comforting someone emotionally, but I would suck at cooking or taking care of someone physically. I can barely take care of myself in that regard, honestly. I sometimes worry my lack of ability there makes people see me as less feminine.

With ISFJs as an archetype, I really don't have a maid in mind as much as a nurse... a nurse looks after people's physical needs, just like a psychologist looks after their mental/emotional needs. I see INFJs being the psychologist, and ISFJs being the nurse. Of course, an individual's potential is not even close to being limited by those things.

So, I did not mean to seriously suggest that SFJs are only good for maid service, and I hope no one was offended by the statement I made. I really was not anticipating that it might be interpreted that way, and I apologize.


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## FearAndTrembling

Swede said:


> Mhm, makes a lot of sense. INTJs generally only let down their guard around people they trust or are infatuated by.
> 
> But, what is funny about this post (to me), is that 'femininity' is very subjective. Unless femininity is defined and agreed upon, it really can't be used in a way that makes sense. Some see femininity as strength and determination, some see femininity as warmth and a nurturing nature.
> 
> If I don't claim that INTJ is the most feminine MBTI, I am essentially betraying my own person - makes sense, right? XD


There are different kinds of strength. Jung basically thought that men were strong on the outside, but weak on the inside. And women were weak on the outside, but strong on the inside. But only external strength is recognized, so men are generally viewed as strong, and women as weak. 

To Jung, everybody is two people. Their persona, which is focused towards the object. This is the one most people know. 

persona is ""a kind of mask, designed on the one hand to make a definite impression upon others, and on the other to conceal the true nature of the individual"

So, the persona is the body of the person. The physical representation, oriented towards the outside world. But there is an internal person too. Which Jung would call the anima, if you are male. Cuz Jung thought that every male has a female soul, and females have male souls. Because all humans are both, but they are split. But the whole always remains, just divided.

And men are known for outer toughness, and women for outer weakness. Men have strong bodies, but they have a "womanly weakness" towards their soul. They are as weak when turned inward, as women are outward. In fact, a lot of men will totally avoid these internal processes. Because they are scared of their soul. Thus, it can never be saved. 

*As they are inflexible and inaccessible outwardly, so are they weak, flaccid, and determinable in relation to their inner processes. In such cases, therefore, the inner attitude corresponds with an inner personality diametrically opposed and different from the outer.

Thus his soul contains those general human qualities of suggestibility and weakness which are wholly lacking in his outer attitude, or persona. Where the persona is intellectual, the soul is quite certainly sentimental. That the complementary character of the soul is also concerned with the sex-character is a fact which can no longer seriously be doubted. A very feminine woman has a masculine soul, and a very manly man a feminine soul. This opposition is based upon the fact that a man, for instance, is not in all things wholly masculine, but has also certain feminine traits. The, more manly his outer attitude, the more will his womanly traits be effaced; these then appear in the soul. This circumstance explains why it is that the very manly men are most subject to characteristic weaknesses ; their attitude to the unconscious has a womanly weakness and impressionability. 
*
I would say that INTP males are most feminine, as in lacking a "male" physical presence. They aren't "feminine", in emotion though.


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## Swede

@_FearAndTrembling_, interesting - thanks for sharing.  I like philosophy, so I found it fascinating, even though in all honesty, a bit farfetched and bit too focused on balance for my tastes. (No offense meant!)
Now we just have to wait for all the other tens of thousands of definitions to come in so that we can vote... 
;-). All right, all right, I'm done being a smart-ass. 

So, in regards to your post, assuming that this is the universally accepted definition, we would also then have to define what physical strength is. Is it pure muscle, or is it also hunger resistance, endurance, pain resistance level? 
There is no doubt that most men are stronger than most women in regards to mechanical muscle strength. However, in regards to pain resistance, it is generally claimed by the medical community that women are stronger. Women are not only designed to give birth (it was rather amusing to see the reactions to the natural birth video in birthing class, btw - the women were pale after the movie, but the men were on the verge of passing out. You could tell that most of them were thinking "Thank god that I don't have to go through that!" With the exception of my husband, who was yawning through the entire movie... ), but many of us go through pretty severe pain over a number of days on a monthly basis. A heart disease specialist who gave a presentation at work the other week said that "When men come in with a heart attack, I give them the needle right away, because I don't want to hear their whining. The women are fine." 

So, assuming that pain resistance part of the 'physical strength' category, women would automatically move closer towards the masculine in regards to soul, right?


Back to my original (slightly smartassy) point, there is no universal and encompassing definition of feminine and masculine traits, with the exception of procreation. And that is an area that is simple because it is black or white - either you are designed to keep eggs, or you are designed to generate sperm. There is nothing in between (for humans).


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## FearAndTrembling

Swede said:


> @_FearAndTrembling_, interesting - thanks for sharing.  I like philosophy, so I found it fascinating, even though in all honesty, a bit farfetched and bit too focused on balance up for my tastes. (No offense meant!)
> Now we just have to wait for all the other tens of thousands of definitions to come in so that we can vote... ;-). All right, all right, I'm done being a smart-ass.
> 
> So, in regards to your post, assuming that this is the universally accepted definition, we would also then have to define what physical strength is. Is it pure muscle, or is it also resistance, endurance, pain level?
> There is no doubt that most men are stronger than most women in regards to mechanical muscle strength. However, in regards to pain resistance, it is generally claimed by the medical community that women are stronger. Women are not only designed to give birth (it was rather amusing to see the reactions to the natural birth video in birthing class, btw - the women were pale after the movie, but the men were on the verge of passing out. You could tell that most of them were thinking "Thank god that I don't have to go through that!" With the exception of my husband, who was yawning through the entire movie... ), but many of us go through pretty severe pain over a number of days on a weekly basis. A heart disease specialist who gave a presentation at work the other week said that "when men come in with a heart attack, I give them the needle right away, because I don't want to hear their whining. The women are fine."
> 
> So, assuming that pain resistance part of the 'physical strength' category, women would automatically move closer towards the masculine in regards to soul, right?
> 
> 
> Back to my original (slightly smartassy) point, there is no universal and encompassing definition of feminine and masculine traits, with the exception of procreation. And that is an area that is simple because it is black or white - either you are designed to keep eggs, or you are designed to generate sperm. There is nothing in between (for humans).


It includes those physical traits, but that really isn't it. I know tons of physically big, weak guys. Who could beat up anybody physically, but aren't actually "strong". This is often seen in bullying. The smaller kid can pick on the bigger one. It transcends "who can beat up who". It is a psychology. 

The bully, even though he would lose a physical fight, is still "stronger", because he broke the guy before it even reaches that point. He doesn't have to resort to the physical. That element is removed. 

So, the bully, has a greater outer strength. Even though he would physically lose to the guy he is picking on. It is an emotional and psychological strength. But these people are often the weakest on the inside. Like the dictator who kills anybody, but can't stand to be alone with his thoughts or dreams, and lives a life of paranoia. His outer hardness, makes up for his inner weakness.

Weakness will always manifest itself. If you can't see it outside, it must be inside.


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## FearAndTrembling

The idea of what constitutes males toughness, is an interesting one. I want to expand on it from my own experience. 

It really has nothing to do with physical strength. It is all attitude. Like the Geto Boys song talks about, "when the fire dies down, what the fuck you gonna do?" Cuz that is where tough males actually shine. When all the shit talking is done, who is actually gonna stand up? 

Classic case was this guy a year ahead of me in school. Intimidated me, and most others. Seems like a classic ISTP. Not loud, or bragging, but had a confidence with a grin on his face, that made you uncomfortable. Could never tell how close he was to to killing you. Was always, calm, and cool. You never know where you stood with this guy.

But, he was the guy, when the fire died down, he was gonna be there. 5 big guys from the next school or neighborhood show up, he's gonna fight them. On the spot. You pull a gun, he isn't impressed. Never back down from anything. You cannot move this man psychologically, you can only move him physically. And that is a toughness in itself. 

With a lot of guys, it is a facade. This guy is the real deal. He doesn't care at all for pageantry. He's not a blowfish. Not gonna talk. Just gonna stand in your way, and make you move him.

To quote the guy from my sig:

"After I dropped out of college, I started traveling around the country. I was 19 years old and I decided to find me something that worked, like being cool. Being cool worked, it got you out of trouble and you got a lot of good things happening for you but I never had more than maybe a C- in cool. Being smart worked for you. It got you out of a lot of trouble and got you a lot of good things and although I was actually pretty quick, I didn’t count it for much ‘cause it came real easy to me. I could memorize large sections of data and regurgitate it back to you but it didn’t bring me any happiness. But believe me, being smart isn’t nearly as good as being wise. Then there was having money, it got you out of a lot of trouble and got you a lot of good things and I never had two nickels.. . but there was being bad . . . and being bad applied across the board. Because you could take a rich, cool, smart guy and you could have him doing anything you could possibly conceive of because you were bad. So I thought, hey I found me the secret of the temple, I’ll go out and get me a Pass Master in bad, and I did. I fought for world titles in boxing and karate; I fought bar wars, street corners, most everything living and half the stuff dead. And darling it don’t matter, there ain’t nobody bad. I know, I looked ."


----------



## dinkytown

No type is more inherently feminine or masculine.

Not that I'm one of those people that believe those two concepts don't exist. In fact I believe a sharp contrast between masculinity and femininity is essential in a healthy society.

But men can be masculine and women can be feminine regardless of type.


----------



## monemi

athenian200 said:


> I was half-joking because I don't take the concept of a type being "feminine" very seriously to begin with.
> 
> But I do know that I wouldn't be very good at a lot of the stereotypically feminine/maid jobs, and that I'm a lot more spaced-out and geeky than most women. I'm good at comforting someone emotionally, but I would suck at cooking or taking care of someone physically. I can barely take care of myself in that regard, honestly. I sometimes worry my lack of ability there makes people see me as less feminine.
> 
> With ISFJs as an archetype, I really don't have a maid in mind as much as a nurse... a nurse looks after people's physical needs, just like a psychologist looks after their mental/emotional needs. I see INFJs being the psychologist, and ISFJs being the nurse. Of course, an individual's potential is not even close to being limited by those things.
> 
> So, I did not mean to seriously suggest that SFJs are only good for maid service, and I hope no one was offended by the statement I made. I really was not anticipating that it might be interpreted that way, and I apologize.


I'm looking at my husband. He's not any better at nursing than you are. I really don't think nurturer means that they're going to be automatically better at this stuff than an INFJ or INTJ or an ESTP. Just like being an ESTP doesn't mean you're automatically going to be any good at sports. You see that right?


----------



## SouthernSaxon

monemi said:


> I'm looking at my husband. He's not any better at nursing than you are. I really don't think nurturer means that they're going to be automatically better at this stuff than an INFJ or INTJ or an ESTP. Just like being an ESTP doesn't mean you're automatically going to be any good at sports. You see that right?


A lot of this is to do with your genetics (height, testosterone levels, etc), as well as how you're raised and the opportunities you encounter. Trying to draw a correlation between sporting ability and personality types seems far-fetched. All I would say is that certain types - extroverts, Sensors especially - might be naturally more interested in physical pursuits. The same goes regarding domestic tasks (though here the genetic aspect is more gender dependent). But that's just a hunch.


----------



## monemi

SouthernSaxon said:


> A lot of this is to do with your genetics (height, testosterone levels, etc), as well as how you're raised and the opportunities you encounter. Trying to draw a correlation between sporting ability and personality types seems far-fetched. All I would say is that certain types - extroverts, Sensors especially - might be naturally more interested in physical pursuits. The same goes regarding domestic tasks (though here the genetic aspect is more gender dependent). But that's just a hunch.


I think people mistake the idea that someone who ultimately makes decisions based on their feelings are going to be more interested in taking care of other people. But in this house, the ESTP is involved in charity work, not the ISFJ. It's the ESTP motivated to work when there isn't any monetary pay off to it. The ISFJ is the art director who decides what to run with ultimately based on his feelings more than logic. He got where he is because he has consistently made good calls. It seems a like a lot of people in advertising and creative design are logical but ultimately make their decisions based on feelings. 

ISFJ's may be marginally more likely to take on domestic tasks, but I'd hardly conclude certain types are better suited for certain jobs. Cognitive function only accounts for a small part of our personalities.


----------



## Swede

FearAndTrembling said:


> It includes those physical traits, but that really isn't it. I know tons of physically big, weak guys. Who could beat up anybody physically, but aren't actually "strong". This is often seen in bullying. The smaller kid can pick on the bigger one. It transcends "who can beat up who". It is a psychology.
> 
> The bully, even though he would lose a physical fight, is still "stronger", because he broke the guy before it even reaches that point. He doesn't have to resort to the physical. That element is removed.
> 
> So, the bully, has a greater outer strength. Even though he would physically lose to the guy he is picking on. It is an emotional and psychological strength. *But these people are often the weakest on the inside.* Like the dictator who kills anybody, but can't stand to be alone with his thoughts or dreams, and lives a life of paranoia. His outer hardness, makes up for his inner weakness.


Bold part: Absolutely - there is no doubt! I agree that bullying is a sign of weakness - a scared/damaged person can often at times act out their issues or hide their issues by overcompensating*.



> Weakness will always manifest itself. *If you can't see it outside, it must be inside*.


I don't agree with this and I suspect that neither do you, if you look at your own reasoning above.
- The fact is that a person can be both physically strong and still be a bully (it is actually not unusual), which means that they are not spiritually strong either. 
- So, if the combination A & A exists, (weak body & weak soul/spirit.mind), then logically we must conclude that the combination B & B also exists (strength is both aspects). If not, then the concept collapses into itself, because A&A would become the baseline.
- In addition, strength and weakness are parts of human nature (which is interesting, because again, we define what strength and weakness is). My point is that it is inherently wrong to label certain spiritual strengths and certain spiritual weaknesses as masculine vs feminine. 
As a matter of fact, when we do, we might actually magnify the initial problem; to the individual's knowledge of a certain weakness in their own character, which has been deemed as something characteristic for the opposite gender, shame and/or guilt is now added (for example, in the case of the bully who recognizes that his/her behavior is an expression of fear, but can't seem to stop). 
These feelings can often make the owner feel powerless and maybe even lead to self-resentment. In addition, the person might be so ashamed that they avoid seeking help, even though they desperately need it.


*This, I do believe, *has* in the past been a more accepted 'masculine' behavior, even though it seems to even out nowadays. Generally speaking, the pattern I have noticed is that young men often tend to act out and punish _others_ for their own shortcomings (physical fights, gang culture, crime, placing blame, etc), while young women often turn the issues inwards and punishes themselves (anorexia, self-cutting, taking too much responsibility for own and others' actions, etc).


----------



## athenian200

monemi said:


> I'm looking at my husband. He's not any better at nursing than you are. I really don't think nurturer means that they're going to be automatically better at this stuff than an INFJ or INTJ or an ESTP. Just like being an ESTP doesn't mean you're automatically going to be any good at sports. You see that right?


Well, yeah, of course a male ISFJ isn't going to be very feminine...

But anyway, I don't see how the level of accuracy/precision about the nature of types and taking into account all these specific truths you're describing can be achieved with a topic that's already so stereotypical. The entire idea of what "feminine" means is already an exaggerated and inaccurate stereotype of women.

If you want me to answer at the level of conversation you're trying to have, then I withdraw the assertion that any type is feminine. I can give no other answer than that femininity is a subjective and inaccurate concept to begin with, and really didn't deserve an answer from me in the first place. Also, it's not something that can be compared to type because it's primarily behavioral rather than cognitive.

Is that fair enough?


----------



## SouthernSaxon

athenian200 said:


> Well, yeah, of course a male ISFJ isn't going to be very feminine...
> 
> But anyway, I don't see how the level of accuracy/precision about the nature of types and taking into account all these specific truths you're describing can be achieved with a topic that's already so stereotypical. The entire idea of what "feminine" means is already an exaggerated and inaccurate stereotype of women.
> 
> If you want me to answer at the level of conversation you're trying to have, then I withdraw the assertion that any type is feminine. I can give no other answer than that femininity is a subjective and inaccurate concept to begin with, and really didn't deserve an answer from me in the first place. Also, it's not something that can be compared to type because it's primarily behavioral rather than cognitive.
> 
> Is that fair enough?


Feminine women are women who show a lot of sexual dimorphism, which is anything but subjective, and there are physical and behavioural aspects to it. A distinct female nature and role is attractive to men for a whole lot or reasons which I can't be bothered getting into. Certain personality types are going to show more of these traits, I mentioned the T-F axis. 

The irony of women who disagree with this idea is that they're really trying to be like men, and that's not a compliment.


----------



## honeybadger9

infp


----------



## ozones

SouthernSaxon said:


> Feminine women are women who show a lot of sexual dimorphism, which is anything but subjective, and there are physical and behavioural aspects to it. A distinct female nature and role is attractive to men for a whole lot or reasons which I can't be bothered getting into. Certain personality types are going to show more of these traits, I mentioned the T-F axis.
> 
> The irony of women who disagree with this idea is that they're really trying to be like men, and that's not a compliment.


Youve got it allll wrong.

men- some men are quiet and sensitive like you, some men are loud and obnoxious.

women- some women are quiet and sensitive, some are loud and obnoxious.

So what does women wanting to be a 'man' mean exactly? 

Being strong, confident and assertive are not male traits. Never have been. They are personality traits that are universally admirable when used correctly.

Some men are turned on by a women who can dominate him.

Some men are turned on by a women who needs saving.

From my experience in school and college, people the most like me, loud, outgoing, charming girls who know how to have fun and party, and not whining about their feelings, usually got the guys wrapped around our fingers. 

The girls who people are describing as so called 'feminine' were described by guys as boring, annoying, dumb, too emotionally attached, and bland. 

what world do you live in again?

I have a million guys chasing me at any given moment (exaggeration), Im an ES*T*P. There goes your dumb theory.


----------



## Tranquility

ozones said:


> Youve got it allll wrong.
> 
> men- some men are quiet and sensitive like you, some men are loud and obnoxious.
> 
> women- some women are quiet and sensitive, some are loud and obnoxious.
> 
> So what does women wanting to be a 'man' mean exactly?
> 
> Being strong, confident and assertive are not male traits. Never have been. They are personality traits that are universally admirable when used correctly.
> 
> Some men are turned on by a women who can dominate him.
> 
> Some men are turned on by a women who needs saving.
> 
> From my experience in school and college, people the most like me, loud, outgoing, charming girls who know how to have fun and party usually got the guys wrapped around our fingers.
> 
> The girls who people are describing as so called 'feminine' were described by guys as boring, annoying, dumb, too emotionally attached, and bland.
> 
> what world do you live in again?


Unfortunately, that is the feminine stereotype. The 'desired' woman is a dumb, big-chested, needy blonde, and the 'desired' man is rude, buff, antisocial, and demanding.


----------



## ozones

EthereaEthos said:


> Unfortunately, that is the feminine stereotype. The 'desired' woman is a dumb, big-chested, needy blonde, and the 'desired' man is rude, buff, antisocial, and demanding.


I have never experienced those types of people to be the desired man or woman.


----------



## Tranquility

ozones said:


> I have never experienced those types of people to be the desired man or woman.


It's a caricature stereotype, and I respect you for not adhering to it.


----------



## ozones

EthereaEthos said:


> It's a caricature stereotype, and I respect you for not adhering to it.



Its funny though i don't even see how thats type related. Any type can be dumb, big chested and blonde and any type can be buff, demanding and rude. No one with self respect would be attracted to either.


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## VoodooDolls

@_ozones_, are you even serious?


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## ozones

@DonutsGalacticos huh?


----------



## SouthernSaxon

ozones said:


> Youve got it allll wrong.
> 
> men- some men are quiet and sensitive like you, some men are loud and obnoxious.
> 
> women- some women are quiet and sensitive, some are loud and obnoxious.
> 
> So what does women wanting to be a 'man' mean exactly?
> 
> Being strong, confident and assertive are not male traits. Never have been. They are personality traits that are universally admirable when used correctly.
> 
> Some men are turned on by a women who can dominate him.
> 
> Some men are turned on by a women who needs saving.
> 
> From my experience in school and college, people the most like me, loud, outgoing, charming girls who know how to have fun and party, and not whining about their feelings, usually got the guys wrapped around our fingers.
> 
> The girls who people are describing as so called 'feminine' were described by guys as boring, annoying, dumb, too emotionally attached, and bland.
> 
> what world do you live in again?
> 
> I have a million guys chasing me at any given moment (exaggeration), Im an ES*T*P. There goes your dumb theory.


I'm wary about diverting this thread and I'm probably getting a reputation for it by now *gulp*. You're talking about I vs E here, not T vs F. Loud and obnoxious people are much more likely to be E's (though I've met some really nice E's). Being confident isn't associated with any personality, and dominance/submission would be as much to do with the I-E axis as the T-F one.

I'm sure you already know this, but T vs F refers to whether you have a predisposition to use logic or emotion in a given situation. Feminine women are those who have a strong F predisposition. The higher proportion of women who are Feeling types proves that my point that there is a real, biological, gender difference, which makes sense to me logically (though again, I don't want to go into this too much).

It's clear to me that you live in America, which is a more extrovert biased (and i must say, materialistic) society than any other for women. In most other Western countries, there is much more sexual dimorphism in general. Don't take this personally, but something that irritates me about Americans in general is how blind you seem to be to the fact that the rest of the world is actually quite different...and thank goodness that that is the case still.


----------



## Euclid

doucette said:


> It *really *depends on how you define what is feminine. Feminine woman could mean
> 
> warm, caring, typical mother type
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sensitive, dreamy, girly
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seductive, sensual, sexy, brave
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> photos from here
> 
> or something else... Not only typical housewifes are feminine...
> 
> So different kind of woman stereotypies. All of us can be anything.


I used to think the middle one was feminine. After reading this thread, and I just skimmed through some of the posts. I'm completely clueless at what people mean with the word anymore. I guess I should stop using the term from now on.


----------



## monemi

ozones said:


> Youve got it allll wrong.
> 
> men- some men are quiet and sensitive like you, some men are loud and obnoxious.
> 
> women- some women are quiet and sensitive, some are loud and obnoxious.
> 
> So what does women wanting to be a 'man' mean exactly?
> 
> Being strong, confident and assertive are not male traits. Never have been. They are personality traits that are universally admirable when used correctly.
> 
> Some men are turned on by a women who can dominate him.
> 
> Some men are turned on by a women who needs saving.
> 
> From my experience in school and college, people the most like me, loud, outgoing, charming girls who know how to have fun and party, and not whining about their feelings, usually got the guys wrapped around our fingers.
> 
> The girls who people are describing as so called 'feminine' were described by guys as boring, annoying, dumb, too emotionally attached, and bland.
> 
> what world do you live in again?
> 
> I have a million guys chasing me at any given moment (exaggeration), Im an ES*T*P. There goes your dumb theory.


A bit harsh, but frankly closer to real world experience. The cinderella southern saxon is imagining in stereotypical theory is the one that men want. In real life, cinderella nothing happens in my observations. Men care more about appearances than they admit. Real life isn't Disney.


----------



## Thedreamingpeasent

Probably isfj or esfj I wouldn't say enfp or infp or esfp because all the ones I know are not that girly.

Sent from my RM-860_nam_usa_100 using Tapatalk


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## monemi

SouthernSaxon said:


> I'm wary about diverting this thread and I'm probably getting a reputation for it by now *gulp*. You're talking about I vs E here, not T vs F. Loud and obnoxious people are much more likely to be E's (though I've met some really nice E's). Being confident isn't associated with any personality, and dominance/submission would be as much to do with the I-E axis as the T-F one.
> 
> I'm sure you already know this, but T vs F refers to whether you have a predisposition to use logic or emotion in a given situation. Feminine women are those who have a strong F predisposition. The higher proportion of women who are Feeling types proves that my point that there is a real, biological, gender difference, which makes sense to me logically (though again, I don't want to go into this too much).
> 
> It's clear to me that you live in America, which is a more extrovert biased (and i must say, materialistic) society than any other for women. In most other Western countries, there is much more sexual dimorphism in general. Don't take this personally, but something that irritates me about Americans in general is how blind you seem to be to the fact that the rest of the world is actually quite different...and thank goodness that that is the case still.


I ignored the loud obnoxious part. That part's not true for all social groups. But being sensitive and sweet doesn't work in all groups. Not to say it's bad. I don't think it's a bad thing at all. But when you're talking about appearance driven people (ie. most of the population) being a feeler is likely to have you getting the piss taken out of you. I would say this is true in Europe also. I don't get the sense you're the sort to go to clubs, raves, Ibiza etc... Or worked in sales, marketing, film etc... Expectations for women aren't the same everywhere.


----------



## ozones

SouthernSaxon said:


> I'm wary about diverting this thread and I'm probably getting a reputation for it by now *gulp*. You're talking about I vs E here, not T vs F. Loud and obnoxious people are much more likely to be E's (though I've met some really nice E's). Being confident is an E trait, dominance/submission is as much to do with the I-E axis as the T-F one.
> 
> I'm sure you already know this, but T vs F refers to whether you have a predisposition to use logic or emotion in a given situation. Feminine women are those who have a strong F predisposition.
> 
> It's clear to me that you live in America, which is a more extrovert biased (and i must say, materialistic) society than any other for women. In most other Western countries, there is much more sexual dimorphism in general. Another thing that irritates me about American sis how blind you seem to be to the fact that the rest of the world is actually quite different, and thank goodness that that is the case still.


T women feel and fall in love. F women can be blocked off emotionally and have trust issues making them seem unemotional. The advantage of being a thinker is lack of neediness, clinginess and hypersensitivity, which are universally annoying traits. T women can be all those things too of course.

The traits that are considered masculine by people in this thread, are, like you said traits of Extroversion, true.

As an ESTP, I come off as much more 'feminine' and warm than the INFP i mentioned before. My T function is introverted and not something you'll see unless I'm debating or making an important decision. (Its also what gives me my principles, integrity and what i find to be right and wrong). I extrovert my feeling. This INFP i mentioned before is a dominant F and yet she comes off as aloof, and cold and I can't image her being comfortable opening up to someone about all her feels. She extroverts her thinking. 

If you personally find overlyemotional types (non type related) to be attractive, then great. But don't make statements speaking for every guy out there. Theres also a lot more to each individual that will draw you in. Rarely does it come up when dating, are you emotional and clingy or logical and detached? Usually other personality traits and quirks overshadow this trivial preference.

And don't worry, what your saying is not controversial, its just not trueroud:


----------



## SouthernSaxon

ozones said:


> T women feel and fall in love. F women can be blocked off emotionally and have trust issues making them seem unemotional. The advantage to being a T women is lack of neediness, clinginess and hypersensitivity, which are universally unattractive traits. T women can be all those things to of course.
> 
> The traits that are considered masculine by people in this thread, are, like you said traits of Extroversion, true.


All of what i've posted is based on my experience observing male preferences for mates (not a one night stand) and talks with older guys. Men don't lie about what we want, we're straight down the line. 



ozones said:


> As an ESTP, I come off as much more 'feminine' and warm than the INFP i mentioned before. My T function is introverted and not something you'll see unless I'm debating or making an important decision. (Its also what gives me my principles, integrity and what i find to be right and wrong). I extrovert my feeling. This INFP is a dominant F and yet she comes off as aloof, and cold and I can't image her being comfortable opening up to someone about all her feels. She extroverts her thinking.
> 
> If you personally find overlyemotional types (non type related) to be attractive, then great. But don't make statements speaking for every guy out there. Theres also a lot more to each individual that will draw you in. Rarely does it come up when dating, are you emotional and clingy or logical and detached? Usually other personality traits and quirks overshadow this trivial preference.


Fe probably *shrugs*. I'm not actually even talking about myself or my own personal preferences, which I've banged on about long enough and people can probably infer. I'm trying to draw on my observations of men in general. Sure, most of us (I don't _at all _but most guys seem to) want some extroverted, party girl types to raise their tally but when they're looking for a girl to have their kids they tend to want someone a bit quieter, softer and more measured. Long term vs short term strategy?

I try to have nothing against T women universally, though I've been put off by the coolness, arrogance and general lack of sensitivity some strongly T women I've met have shown me, and it's part of my nature to internalise these things and then generalise. I'm someone who finds balance/order etc attractive. It's good that you have some balance of traits...that will definitely help you achieve success with men. Nothing I've said was aimed against you personally and i hope you don't take it that way.


----------



## ozones

SouthernSaxon said:


> All of what i've posted is based on my experience observing male preferences for mates (not a one night stand) and talks with older guys. Men don't lie about what we want, we're straight down the line.
> 
> 
> 
> Fe probably *shrugs*. I'm not actually even talking about myself or my own personal preferences, which I've banged on about long enough and people can probably infer. I'm trying to draw on my observations of men in general. Sure, most of us (I don't _at all _but most guys seem to) want some extroverted, party girl types to raise their tally but when they're looking for a girl to have their kids they tend to want someone a bit quieter, softer and more measured. Long term vs short term strategy?
> 
> I try to have nothing against T women universally, though I've been put off by the coolness, arrogance and general lack of sensitivity some strongly T women I've met have shown me, and it's part of my nature to internalise these things and then generalise. I'm someone who finds balance/order etc attractive. It's good that you have some balance of traits...that will definitely help you achieve success with men. Nothing I've said was aimed against you personally and i hope you don't take it that way.



Im kinda confused. Being softer, quieter and more measured connotates introversion. Not T or F. 

Do you think every guy out there wants a IxxJ (which is what sounds like your describing)?

Don't you think some guys out there would find that boring?

Honey, I don't need your well wishes on my personality. I have absolutely no problems getting any guy i want. And this has nothing to do with T, F HGYFU or anything. In fact i could shut down Fe and still have guys flocking. Why? Because I'm fun, funny, easygoing and smart. I have been proposed to by an INFJ 9w8, I declined. He got engaged a month ago, I'm very happy for him. I have many guys asking me out all the time. I have no interest in dating, because I'm young and don't want to commit. My attractiveness however has nothing to do with my Fe, it has to do with me.

Oh and nobody wants a robot, so T-F balance is good regardless of gender.


----------



## monemi

SouthernSaxon said:


> All of what i've posted is based on my experience observing male preferences for mates (not a one night stand) and talks with older guys. Men don't lie about what we want, we're straight down the line.
> 
> 
> 
> Fe probably *shrugs*. I'm not actually even talking about myself or my own personal preferences, which I've banged on about long enough and people can probably infer. I'm trying to draw on my observations of men in general. Sure, most of us (I don't _at all _but most guys seem to) want some extroverted, party girl types to raise their tally but when they're looking for a girl to have their kids they tend to want someone a bit quieter, softer and more measured. Long term vs short term strategy?
> 
> I try to have nothing against T women universally, though I've been put off by the coolness, arrogance and general lack of sensitivity some strongly T women I've met have shown me, and it's part of my nature to internalise these things and then generalise. I'm someone who finds balance/order etc attractive. It's good that you have some balance of traits...that will definitely help you achieve success with men. Nothing I've said was aimed against you personally and i hope you don't take it that way.


And there's some outdated logic. Men always stuck around for me. I've been married 10 years. I know other women that are very social in long term relationships or married. Sounds like the men you know are just stuffy.


----------



## athenian200

SouthernSaxon said:


> Feminine women are women who show a lot of sexual dimorphism, which is anything but subjective, and there are physical and behavioural aspects to it. A distinct female nature and role is attractive to men for a whole lot or reasons which I can't be bothered getting into. Certain personality types are going to show more of these traits, I mentioned the T-F axis.
> 
> The irony of women who disagree with this idea is that they're really trying to be like men, and that's not a compliment.


Why did you quote me? Why do you have to single me out? 

Other people are far more hostile to your argument than I have been, and I was just trying to settle things with someone else. Now I have to confront you?

Leave me alone, I'm tired of being picked on in this thread. I hate how I've been responded to by both sides of this stupid argument since I started participating, just because I wanted to make what I felt was a mild joke. I'm very upset about it.


----------



## SouthernSaxon

athenian200 said:


> Why did you quote me? Why do you have to single me out?
> 
> Other people are far more hostile to your argument than I have been, and I was just trying to settle things with someone else. Now I have to confront you?
> 
> Leave me alone, I'm tired of being picked on in this thread. I hate how I've been responded to by both sides of this stupid argument since I started participating, just because I wanted to make what I felt was a mild joke. I'm very upset about it.


Whoa, I'm not trying to single you out at all...I've responded to lots of people.

I just wanted to talk about your point a bit more. Yeah. This has probably gone too far...


----------



## ozones

@_SouthernSaxon_ looks like others don't agree with you http://maximizemylife.com/2011/11/boring-girl/

The funny thing is, its really not about what guys want, its about what we want. Guys will take anyone as long as they have some sort of personality and look decent. Girls are much pickier. So if you're a boring guy good luck dude.


----------



## SouthernSaxon

ozones said:


> @_SouthernSaxon_ looks like others don't agree with you Top 5 Signs You’re A Boring Girl & 2 Major Reasons Men Avoid You (Girl 4) | Maximize My Life
> 
> The funny thing is, its really not about what guys want, its about what we want. Guys will take anyone as long as they have some sort of personality and look decent. Girls are much pickier. So if you're a boring guy good luck dude.


If you want to continue this with me, take it up somewhere else, like in PM.

All I'll say here is that I actually don't disagree with what those guys have said and you are misinterpreting my views and character.


----------



## Sparky

I find CC to be the cutest anime girl, and Belldandy from _Ah My Goddess_ manga is beautiful as well. They are INFJ (CC is voiced by ESTP actor), so maybe INFJ is more feminine.


----------



## JoanCrawford

ISFP- Feminine
ISTP- Masculine


----------



## monemi

athenian200 said:


> Why did you quote me? Why do you have to single me out?
> 
> Other people are far more hostile to your argument than I have been, and I was just trying to settle things with someone else. Now I have to confront you?
> 
> Leave me alone, I'm tired of being picked on in this thread. I hate how I've been responded to by both sides of this stupid argument since I started participating, just because I wanted to make what I felt was a mild joke. I'm very upset about it.


Sorry, didn't intend to hurt your feelings. Just talking.


----------



## Swede

The thing that is so fascinating about the masculine vs feminine debate is that many seem to go down the yin & yang route, assuming that we are opposite (and that opposites attract).

-The fact is that women and men are both human beings, so the vast majority of our traits, feelings, looks, thought patterns, etc are similar, not different.

-What is also interesting is that we all hang out on a personality board, where we celebrate the unique traits of cognitive functions, yet there are individuals who seem to prefer to look past the intricacies and simplify everything into group A and group B. 
Logically speaking, the definition of what MBTI type is more feminine should be based on stats and not subjective opinions (women: ISFJ at 19.6% according to this source, men: ISTJ, 16.4% - see, not that different!)

I had a a few more thoughts to share, but I accidentally posted. Oh well...


----------



## ozones

Swede said:


> The thing that is so fascinating about the masculine vs feminine debate is that many seem to go down the yin & yang route, assuming that we are opposite (and that opposites attract).
> 
> -The fact is that women and men are both human beings, so the vast majority of our traits, feeling, looks, thought patterns are similar, not different.
> -What is also interesting is that we all hang out on a personality board, where we celebrate the unique traits of cognitive functions, yet there are individuals who seem to prefer to look past the intricacies and simplify everything into group A and group B. Logically speaking, the definition of what MBTI type is more feminine should be based on stats and not subjective opinions.


well said, my friend.


----------



## SouthernSaxon

Swede said:


> The thing that is so fascinating about the masculine vs feminine debate is that many seem to go down the yin & yang route, assuming that we are opposite (and that opposites attract).
> 
> -The fact is that women and men are both human beings, so the vast majority of our traits, feeling, looks, thought patterns are similar, not different.
> -What is also interesting is that we all hang out on a personality board, where we celebrate the unique traits of cognitive functions, yet there are individuals who seem to prefer to look past the intricacies and simplify everything into group A and group B. Logically speaking, the definition of what MBTI type is more feminine should be based on stats and not subjective opinions.


(maybe you still have me on ignore Swede) I think I pointed out that a significantly larger proportion of women than men have Feeling type personalities. Look at the stats for yourself.

I don't believe that opposites attract necessarily - too little in common is just as much of a problem - but I do believe in the principles of complementation and balance, and apply them to much more than just personality types. But seeing you disagree with me, try imagining a guy who had the exact same personality traits as you do, then think about whether you'd find it easy to get on with him as a lover and partner. There's a reason people don't generally gel romantically with those of the same type, but someone similar...a bit different, but not too much.


----------



## ozones

> I think I pointed out that a significantly larger proportion of women than men have Feeling type personalities. Look at the stats for yourself.


You have to understand that MBTI is just a theory. Most people do not fit in to the F or T preference. Also before you mentioned you felt T women to be arrogant and bitchy, why do you equate this with women who prefer the thinking function? How do you know they are 'thinker'? I think you have an image in your mind of what a T is and it is not consistent with reality.

Most people cannot be typed unless you know them very well and how they see the world. E-I is the most obvious, but even with that many people are ambiverted, many extroverts are shy and many Is seem very outgoing but need alone time to recharge. People say J and P are easy to tell apart, but let me tell you if you've ever seen my room or watch me nag people to throw things out all the time, you'd call me a J. Yet I'm a P.

My point is your putting too much stock into what you think T and F is. Its not a black and white function and we all use both. 

Do opposites attract? Sometimes. I find that i attract all different personalities but romantically enjoy ISFJs and ESxPs the most. Personal preference.


----------



## Fire Away

LOL... this fucking thread :laughing:


----------



## Swede

Yep, you are still on my ignored list @_SouthernSaxon_ (based on another gender debate, if I recall correctly), but I can read your posts if I feel like it. Since you summoned, I gave your post a chance.

I agree with some of what you are saying, but the fact is that my husband is also an INTJ. What he has told me that he finds attractive about me is that (according to him) I am intelligent, independent, loyal, reliable, driven, ambitious, hard working, beautiful (inside & outside), a "good person", that I have "an ass that just won't quit", and the last couple of years that I'm a great mother. 
Coincidentally, many of the traits that he lists are the same traits that attracts me to him; intelligence, being a good person, reliable, a nice ass, etc. 

Do I believe that every man in the world would be interested in me based on the list above or when meeting me in person? Absolutely not! Do I believe that every woman in the world is trying to seduce my husband? Nope!
Why? Because different people are attracted to different traits. 


The thing us, I am attracted to a personality. The same traits that makes my husband attractive to me is actually applicable to my closest friends too. The biggest difference is that I'm only sexually intimate with my husband. However, my friends are also loyal, ambitious, intelligent (don't care so much about their asses though). 


From a more philosophical standpoint: Logically, if you define yourself as the base-line for masculinity (which I assume that many men do), it is understandable that you decide that your particular personality set equals masculinity. After all, you are the closest reference to masculinity that you will ever know. Then it follows that, if you assume that what defines femininity is _opposite_ than what you have subjectively decided is masculine, you have defined the concept of femininity. It is still subjective though, because you used yourself, or peers/other men that you relate to, as the frame of reference to define something that you will probably never strive to become (or even try to understand), namely a woman. It is also likely false, as explained in the last section in my last post.
The type of reasoning discussed right above becomes the basis for a lot of misunderstandings in regards to how a 'real man' or a 'real woman' 'should be'. IMO, it is also the basis for becoming narrow minded, because it is assumed that ones highly personal point of view/opinion mirrors the universal truth. But the thing is, I am a woman and you are not, so when you define femininity based on who you are, you are projecting a personal dream/ideal that has little to do with reality. You can't tell me that I am not feminine - I am feminine by definition, because I am a woman. However, you can say that my personality traits, body type, the way I dress/express myself/laugh don't appeal to you, because they are not what *you* deem as 'feminine enough' - huge difference. The former statement is an insult (as was the "trying to be a man" statement earlier on) because you are telling me that I am not 'woman enough' based on your subjective definition, the latter can also be taken as an insult (but I wouldn't care personally because I am only interested in keeping the sexual attraction/interest of one man).

Finally, lets expand a bit more in regards to the baseline concept discussed above. Do you think that a homosexual man doesn't see himself as a man or as masculine? Do you think that a woman in her 80s doesn't see herself as a woman and as feminine? Do you think that I, a female INTJ, don't see myself as feminine? 
I assume that they do and I know that I do, *but* first and foremost I see myself as a human being, not as a woman. And _*that*_ makes a huge impact on how I see men, because I see men as humans first too and men second. To me, that is logical and the other way around is not.


----------



## ozones

That almost brought me to tears ^^

*slo-mo applause*


----------



## candiemerald

@Swede

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.


----------



## Brian1

I think, this is only my opinion, but,INFP is the most feminine. I've been a life long learner of the brain, and it's the right side that is the feminine side, while the left side is the masculine side. ESTPs use more of the left brain, and I think the INFP has a lot more traits that are considered feminine ,because they use the right side of their brain more. I think even there look at least the men, from my experience seem like they're GT. I also tend to think you could have a liberal INFP, just come across in body type, as conservative, because of the introversion. 

Note,I'm not trying to make a sarcastic statement on this.


----------



## Euclid

ozones said:


> The funny thing is, its really not about what guys want, its about what we want. Guys will take anyone as long as they have some sort of personality and look decent. Girls are much pickier. So if you're a boring guy good luck dude.


While this may be true for most men, I'm only ever attracted to a tiny minority of women, who are what I would call feminine. It has as little to do with trying to fit a gender role with as masculinity has to do with "acting tough". It is just an aura of vulnerability that a woman emanates without even being aware of it. It is something that comes natural to them, out of their own inclination. It is not an act, it is not a role that you are trying to fulfil, it's not being desirable sexually, because on it's own, it is objectifying, and you'd be cast aside like a used up toy, were it not for the fact that you could have multiple uses. No, femininity is being desirable for it's own sake, not something to use up, but to protect, cherish and hold dear. Everything else while it might add to a relationship's value, cannot constitute the basis for wanting one, because it would be nothing more than a friendship (with or without "benefits", and a commitment would only serve to secure those "benefits").

That said, I would say INFPs and INFJs are the most feminine types.


----------



## bettiepage

It depends on the culture and their feminine ideal. I've seen in anime (suggesting that it is relevant to Japan,) that INFP girls are the feminine ideal. In America the perfectly flawed female is an ESFJ or ISFJ. It's stereotyped that women never shut up and babble about everything, but it's also idealized for women to be silent and submissive. So I'm not sure.


----------



## Kingdom Crusader

According to average society's ideals, I would say...

Most feminine: ISFJ

Least feminine: ISTJ


----------



## ozones

Euclid said:


> While this may be true for most men, I'm only ever attracted to a tiny minority of women, who are what I would call feminine. It has as little to do with trying to fit a gender role with as masculinity has to do with "acting tough". It is just an aura of vulnerability that a woman emanates without even being aware of it. It is something that comes natural to them, out of their own inclination. It is not an act, it is not a role that you are trying to fulfil, it's not being desirable sexually, because on it's own, it is objectifying, and you'd be cast aside like a used up toy, were it not for the fact that you could have multiple uses. No, femininity is being desirable for it's own sake, not something to use up, but to protect, cherish and hold dear. Everything else while it might add to a relationship's value, cannot constitute the basis for wanting one, because it would be nothing more than a friendship (with or without "benefits", and a commitment would only serve to secure those "benefits").
> 
> That said, I would say INFPs and INFJs are the most feminine types.



I personally find myself attracted to a minority of types too, that mainly being IxFs.

That said i would say IxFs are the most masculine types.

(also what your looking for is not type related, don't be dumb. The INFxs i know are nothing like you described)


----------



## Im FiNe

The most feminine types are those with two X's, _e.g._, IXXP.


----------



## MelBel

Wh1zkey said:


> Strictly going by stereotypes, based on my experiences, ENFP is the most feminine. If you're an ENFP male, don't worry, many girls love you. Embrace your femininity. That's what makes you alpha, being true to who you are.


Thank you! Finally someone votes for the ENFPs!!! Yea!


----------



## -Alpha-

MelBel said:


> Thank you! Finally someone votes for the ENFPs!!! Yea!


I don't know how anyone could think of any other type when they think of femininity. In my experience, Ne and Fi are the most girly functions. Coming from somebody that identifies with a feminine archetype, Ne-Fi is even too girly for me.


----------



## MelBel

-Alpha- said:


> I don't know how anyone could think of any other type when they think of femininity. In my experience, Ne and Fi are the most girly functions. Coming from somebody that identifies with a feminine archetype, Ne-Fi is even too girly for me.



I agree and know what you mean. And I feel like if I were any more girly and feminine, I'd be like an annoying cartoon caricature! But, I'm very assertive, and that seems to be judged by many as masculine, sadly. But, I don't care! ;-)


----------



## ozones

Lets clear up some misconceptions, shall we?


An ESTP female in a relationship:

I am fun, charming, sensual and outgoing and funny, playful and silly. I like doing things and having a good time (Se) I have a good head on my shoulders, I am smart. I am not clingy, I am not needy, (Ti) but i will validate your existence and feelings, and be affectionate if you deserve it, when appropriate. Lets build a normal happy home together and cuddle while watching a sweet movie as the rain patters (is this a word) against the window pane (Fe)

Lets take my F counterpart the ESFP:

I am fun, charming, sensual and outgoing and funny, playful and silly. I like doing things and having a good time (Se). I need you to say "i love you" every five seconds, and when you don't text back right away I cut myself. I also have a hard time understanding your feelings as I can't see past mine (Fi). I can get really bossy and controlling, and shout a lot when i don't get my way (Te)

How about the most common type for Women, the ESFJ:

I need to know where you are and what you are doing at all times. I treat you like a child, and scold you for not saying please and thank you. I am prone to emotional manipulation if you are not doing what i want. I talk non stop about all the drama going on in my life and get really emotional when you're not paying attention to every word (Fe) I have PTSD from my last relationships so don't be surprised if theres a lot of irrational, volatile behavior on my part (Si) That female coworker you work with is totally flirting with you and i just know your going to elope with her and abandon me (Ne).

INFP, anyone:

I am depressed and have low self esteem. I am hypersensitive to everything you say and you may have to walk on eggshells around me. I am selfish with my emotions, and often appear stoic and unexpressive. I have no backbone and will not be able to raise and mother any children (Fi). I have a hard time enjoying the moment with you because I'm always scared your gonna leave me. I sometimes put words in your mouth because i believe you are out to get me (Ne). I have PTSD and body image issues (Si)

How bout dem INFJs:

I talk in gibberish and you will have a hard time understanding the words that i pull out of my ass. I see the the 10 negative outcomes that can occur in every situation. I will psycho-analyze you on a daily basis (Ni) I will be somewhat affectionate but at times may use sex as a manipulation tactic. Also, STOP TALKING TO THAT GIRL. (Fe) Thank Gd for Ti (Ti)


What was that about T women, again? Lmao


----------



## CaptainWildChild

I would say ISFJ and INFP.. All introverted feelers in general. 

Society likes them quiet softspoken ladies, death to them cold rational talkative ladies! :angry:


----------



## ozones

CaptainWildChild said:


> I would say ISFJ and INFP.. All introverted feelers in general.
> 
> Society likes them quiet softspoken ladies, death to them cold rational talkative ladies! :angry:



Do you live in the middle east? As far as i know those two types have the hardest time getting dates :laughing:


----------



## CaptainWildChild

ozones said:


> Do you live in the middle east? As far as i know those two types have the hardest time getting dates :laughing:


No, I just live in a male dominated world roud: Hmm I don't know about the date thing actually but they are precieved as very feminime and how the ideal woman should be. Like it or not, the ideals still clings on to this time although it gets better but very slowly.


----------



## ozones

Why am i not seeing this? I swear sometimes its like people on this site live on a different planet. I will say it for the last time, because i see things as they are THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS FEMININE, MASCULINE AND NEITHER IS TYPE RELATED OR EASILY DEFINED. WE LIVE IN A WORLD OF HUMANS WITH DIFFERENT PERSONALITIES. EVRYONE HAS EQUAL OPPURTUNITY. 

Stop being ridiculous. 
@_CaptainWildChild

The infp i know is like a guy,she is a sports fanatic, in law school and is the most stoic awkward person you will ever meet. She has spent her whole life starting from high school to be more extroverted and less sensitive so she can fit in with boys girls *and guys. *

There is a huge variety of isfjs, the only thing they all have in common is inherently having no backbone 


How are either of these ideal? They are not. In fact the ideal mate is going to be a personal preference irregardless of their MBTI type. Stop generalizing and labeling, its so annoying.

Give me one example where society promotes, docile sweet ego stroking females and I will give you an example where they promote strong, assertive, __logical females.

Give me an example of a man who prefers soft, cowardly, insecure and needy females and i will give you an example of a man who prefers loud, outgoing, confident and independent females.


_


----------



## Mender

I often hear that my own personality type, INFP, is deemed the most feminine of the sixteen types. There's a significant amount of sensitivity in that type (and in any IxFx's), and a number of the qualities thereof are almost the opposite of those of influential men.

But my ability to come to terms with that, and be proud of the man I am anyway, indicates a degree of masculinity. True?


----------



## ozones

Mender said:


> I often hear that my own personality type, INFP, is deemed the most feminine of the sixteen types. There's a significant amount of sensitivity in that type (and in any IxFx's), and a number of the qualities thereof are almost the opposite of those of influential men.
> 
> But my ability to come to terms with that, and be proud of the man I am anyway, indicates a degree of masculinity. True?



Jude Law and Johnny Depp are some of the most desired men in the world. I know equal amount of sensitive men and women and the former are never ridiculed or made to feel like they are any less a man. They are human, like all of us. So so sick of people being caught up with so called gender roles that haven't existed for the past 100 years.


----------



## CaptainWildChild

ozones said:


> Why am i not seeing this? I swear sometimes its like people on this site live on a different planet. I will say it for the last time, because i see things as they are THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS FEMININE, MASCULINE AND NEITHER IS TYPE RELATED OR EASILY DEFINED. WE LIVE IN A WORLD OF HUMANS WITH DIFFERENT PERSONALITIES. EVRYONE HAS EQUAL OPPURTUNITY.
> 
> Stop being ridiculous.
> @_CaptainWildChild
> 
> The infp i know is like a guy,she is a sports fanatic, in law school and is the most stoic awkward person you will ever meet.
> 
> There is a huge variety of isfjs, the only thing they all have in common is inherently having no backbone
> 
> 
> How are either of these ideal? They are not. In fact the ideal mate is going to be a personal preference irregardless of their MBTI type. Stop generalizing and labeling, its so annoying.
> 
> Give me one example where society promotes, docile sweet ego stroking females and I will give you an example where they promote strong, assertive, __logical females.
> 
> Give me an example of a man who prefers soft, cowardly, insecure and needy females and i will give you an example of a man who prefers loud, outgoing, confident and independent females.
> 
> 
> _


.....Calm your tits woah..... 

I didn't say that I believe that there are masucline and feminime but sadly we are living on a planet with many people who actually believe that women and men should be a certain way. That is not a lie but what I want to say is that I don't believe in the ideals or stereotypes. 

Now that is your buddies not mine, alot of the Infp girls I know kind of fits in to the "ideal" woman. However I know many Infps and they are all very different characters so you don't have to lecture me about _generalizing and labeling _because I already know that. 

Go away with your butthurt feelings because you miunderstood what I said and you are clearly very naive if you think that men and women are equal and have the same rights all around the world.


----------



## moonlight_echo

Alysaria said:


> The "ideal" woman has gone from being a curvy, voluptuously bold temptress to *a slender reed* of demure shyness and everywhere in between.


I find this description far too amusing.


----------



## ozones

> you are clearly very naive if you think that men and women are equal and have the same rights all around the world.


Hmm really? All i know is that I, at 22, own my own business and have reign over a 5o y.o man who works for me. I have an education, I can vote, I can say and do whatever I want. I was even thinking of running for congress at one point. A girl who actually was two grades older in high school did, she lost, however it had more to do with having conservative views in a liberal district, then her being a woman. Theres nothing in this world i can't do, and that goes for every other girl out there. I am not a feminist, I am not against woman being caretaker and men being provider. But beyond that, personality is personality and there is no personality that is more feminine than any other. 

I have been the same as I am now, my whole life, and have always received a lot of attention from the opposite sex. I am the furthest thing from docile, shy, or ego stroking. I know very few people who are. The ones who are though are often unnoticed and overlooked.I have been consistently told for the past 2 years by many men that my ambition and drive is sexy and any guy would be lucky to have me. I have also heard many guys complain that too many girls are dependent on guys financially and that they should get a job.

Maybe it where i grew up? Im Jewish and live in a wealthy Jewish neighborhood. Most people are aggressive and driven. The feminine traits people are mentioning are looked down upon by both genders.

You have more of a chance of getting married to a catch of a guy if you have an outgoing personality than if you're prettier but shy and boring. I have seen this time and time again in my community, so it shocks me when i started reading this thread.

If the feminine ideal is subjective then based on my observation and experience the ideal woman is an ExxP




> .....Calm your tits woah.....


Im trying lol


----------



## Mutant Hive Queen

CaptainWildChild said:


> No, I just live in a male dominated world roud: Hmm I don't know about the date thing actually but they are precieved as very feminime and how the ideal woman should be. Like it or not, the ideals still clings on to this time although it gets better but very slowly.


...I need to find my big post...

* *





*Getting heaped with praise
Generally, the tomboys or "tomboys" I've known about have average-to-high positions in social groups they were in. People would say positive things, particularly related to the "toughness", of one of them and others would get a "you're not gonna get girly on me" thing from people around them when they ventured out of the tomboyish role. People would sometimes state, in one such setting, that they regarded such women positively or found them attractive. 

...okay, heaped is a little much. Still, received. 

Deliberately Exaggerated**

I have one case of this, but I did say "Even when", so...it's not like I'm setting it as a default. Anyway, basically the girl I'm thinking of would oftentimes feed the whole idea she was boyish as often as possible, talking about how she would be able to enact violence, adopting a tone that wasn't typical of her that sounded more masculine, etc., while trying to downplay her more feminine aspects--she had some glaring insecurities at points, for example. *




But yeah. I really haven't seen any of this male domination thing where I'm at. But then I'm young, so maybe it's different in office cultures or the like.


----------



## VinnieBob

I would say the INTP only because when a INTJ proves them wrong they cry like little school girls


----------



## SweetPickles

CaptainWildChild said:


> I would say ISFJ and INFP.. All introverted feelers in general.
> 
> Society likes them quiet softspoken ladies, death to them cold rational talkative ladies! :angry:


What if the INFP is outspoken and occasionally blunt? Does she grow a penis?


----------



## ozones

Welcome to 2013 fuckers. Climb out from under the rock your hiding on and look around you

Personality traits that attract men

The funny thing is i don't actually care if anyone finds me attractive or not, all i care right now is making money and having fun.

The reason i responded so strongly to this thread is because it is so utterly flawed and has no basis on reality of any kind. If anything i found the opposite was true to what people were saying. I feel the need to correct things which i perceive as having zero truth to it.

You people really need to get out more!


----------



## Caged Within

Most of the feminine people I have met were extroverted feelers.


----------



## ozones

Caged Within said:


> Most of the feminine people I have met were extroverted feelers.



Or maybe you thought they were extroverted feelers because they were feminine?


----------



## Caged Within

ozones said:


> Or maybe you thought they were extroverted feelers because they were feminine?


Nah. The majority just tended to be extroverted feelers.


----------



## ozones

Caged Within said:


> Nah. The majority just tended to be extroverted feelers.



Did you have them typed? Were every single one of them the same? Smh


----------



## Caged Within

ozones said:


> Did you have them typed? Were every single one of them the same? Smh


Yeah, I had a lot of them take tests. And no. Not all of them were the same, though most were extroverted feelers.


----------



## RandomShadowPersonality

Based off what I've read on PersonalityPage.com, I would say ESFJ's.

Best wishes,
Chris Ferguson


----------



## VinnieBob

Athanasia said:


> What if the INFP is outspoken and occasionally blunt? Does she grow a penis?


not only the manliest of dicks but a big pair of brass balls as well


----------



## ozones

Caged Within said:


> Yeah, I had a lot of them take tests. And no. Not all of them were the same, though most were extroverted feelers.


you go around asking everyone you know to take some dumb test? interesting


----------



## Caged Within

ozones said:


> you go around asking everyone you know to take some dumb test? interesting


When we want to piss away some time, fo sho.


----------



## absyrd

ISFJ most feminine.

I know that Jung called Ne a female personality or something so I guess ENxPs are next.


----------



## CaptainWildChild

Athanasia said:


> What if the INFP is outspoken and occasionally blunt? Does she grow a penis?


My god! Sarcasm! Have you heard of it?!


----------



## ozones

CaptainWildChild said:


> My god! Sarcasm! Have you heard of it?!



Have you?


----------



## SweetPickles

CaptainWildChild said:


> My god! Sarcasm! Have you heard of it?!


Yes, in fact, that's the language I was speaking.

...
..
.

My God!!!!


----------



## Swede

Caged Within said:


> Most of the feminine people I have met were extroverted feelers.


It might be logical though; a lot of introverts go to work/school/college and then home. We are not hitting the bar after work, unless someone forces us to and then we sulk over a drink and avoid eye-contact long enough that we can leave without being rude. 

I used to go out for coffee with friends in college a lot, but we went out to socialize within the group, not to make new acquaintances. INTJs generally have a very short friend list, because we don't have the bandwidth to keep up with a large number of friends. Right now, I have ... 0-3. Maybe. More than enough. I don't make new friends IRL if I can help it.


----------



## Caged Within

Swede said:


> It might be logical though; a lot of introverts go to work/school/college and then home. We are not hitting the bar after work, unless someone forces us to and then we sulk over a drink and avoid eye-contact long enough that we can leave without being rude.


I tend to do okay in bars, but I can't handle clubs. Can remember being at a wild one, because of a friend. A sea of people was between me, and my friend at the exit. Before I could make it to the other size, I had 12 people grab my chest, 3 people grab my ass, and 4 people twerk on my crotch. 








Swede said:


> I used to go out for coffee with friends in college a lot, but we went out to socialize within the group, not to make new acquaintances. INTJs generally have a very short friend list, because we don't have the bandwidth to keep up with a large number of friends. Right now, I have ... 0-3. Maybe. More than enough. I don't make new friends IRL if I can help it.


I know three INTJs. They're similar to you, in this regard. Keep very close circles.


----------



## Swede

Caged Within said:


> Before I could make it to the other size, I had 12 people grab my chest, 3 people grab my ass, and 4 people twerk on my crotch.


This makes me mad! Why is it considered all right by some to touch men inappropriately but not women? I don't get it. It is creepy and wrong.
I often remind my female colleagues that some things they say about/to our male colleagues is not appropriate. If its not right in one direction, it's not right in the other either.



> I know three INTJs. They're similar to you, in this regard. Keep very close circles.


Yeah, we don't trust easily and we don't take initiative. Most of the time, I'm totally fine living in my own head - as a matter of fact, I prefer it. People I hang with have to stimulate and challenge my intellect or it's not worth it. Social time cuts into my thinking time, so it tends to end up lower on my priority list. XD


----------



## krentz

ozone said:


> An ESTP female in a relationship:
> 
> I am fun, charming, sensual and outgoing and funny, playful and silly. I like doing things and having a good time (Se) I have a good head on my shoulders, I am smart. I am not clingy, I am not needy, (Ti) but i will validate your existence and feelings, and be affectionate if you deserve it, when appropriate. Lets build a normal happy home together and cuddle while watching a sweet movie as the rain patters (is this a word) against the window pane (Fe)
> 
> ...
> 
> INFP, anyone:
> 
> I am depressed and have low self esteem. I am hypersensitive to everything you say and you may have to walk on eggshells around me. I am selfish with my emotions, and often appear stoic and unexpressive. I have no backbone and will not be able to raise and mother any children (Fi). I have a hard time enjoying the moment with you because I'm always scared your gonna leave me. I sometimes put words in your mouth because i believe you are out to get me (Ne). I have PTSD and body image issues (Si)


Oh, hello typism my old friend. I haven't seen you around for some time. Seeing as I'm feeling particularly hypersensitive today, let's flip this one around.

An ESTP female in a relationship:

I'm arrogant and self-interested, and despite not actually giving a shit about what anyone else thinks about me, I love to be the centre of attention because I feed off the external validation. I'm wild and uninhibited and like to 'have fun' with little regard to the consequences on other people. I can be intelligent but am generally not intellectual and find deep conversation regarding any subject (particularly the subjective and the theoretical) to be 'boring'. I generally do not attach to people, have a 'take me or leave me' attitude, and while I call it as I see it sometimes I am downright crass.

See, taken with a huge pinch of salt I don't actually disagree with anything you've said (even if it was targeted at women) but it works both ways.


----------



## ozones

krentz said:


> Oh, hello typism my old friend. I haven't seen you around for some time. Seeing as I'm feeling particularly hypersensitive today, let's flip this one around.
> 
> An ESTP female in a relationship:
> 
> I'm arrogant and self-interested, and despite not actually giving a shit about what anyone else thinks about me, I love to be the centre of attention because I feed off the external validation. I'm wild and uninhibited and like to 'have fun' with little regard to the consequences on other people. I can be intelligent but am generally not intellectual and find deep conversation regarding any subject (particularly the subjective and the theoretical) to be 'boring'. I generally do not attach to people, have a 'take me or leave me' attitude, and while I call it as I see it sometimes I am downright crass.
> 
> See, taken with a huge pinch of salt I don't actually disagree with anything you've said (even if it was targeted at women) but it works both ways.



spot on! lol you missed the point of my post though


----------



## FearAndTrembling

Swede said:


> This makes me mad! Why is it considered all right by some to touch men inappropriately but not women? I don't get it. It is creepy and wrong.
> I often remind my female colleagues that some things they say about/to our male colleagues is not appropriate. If its not right in one direction, it's not right in the other either.
> 
> 
> Yeah, we don't trust easily and we don't take initiative. Most of the time, I'm totally fine living in my own head - as a matter of fact, I prefer it. People I hang with have to stimulate and challenge my intellect or it's not worth it. Social time cuts into my thinking time, so it tends to end up lower on my priority list. XD


It can be creepy, but usually isn't... Because I don't actually feel threatened. Women can't take it to a level, I can't handle. It isn't an act of intimidation. It's annoying, at worst. But never threatening. For the same reason, a woman walking behind me on a dark street, isn't threatening. But the woman would feel threatened if roles were reversed.

It also helps to know what the hell you're doing.. There are just some women, you don't smack on the ass. (like you) You have to size up the situation. I have personally never gotten a negative response from doing it.. Because I have done my homework, and built somewhat of a rapport with them first. 


And it has to be done in the right place. Older girls would pinch my ass in high school. But I just saw it as playful. If I did it to younger girls, or any girl, in school, it would be a different story.


----------



## Swede

FearAndTrembling said:


> It can be creepy, but usually isn't... Because I don't actually feel threatened. Women can't take it to a level, I can't handle. It isn't an act of intimidation. It's annoying, at worst. But never threatening. For the same reason, a woman walking behind me on a dark street, isn't threatening. But the woman would feel threatened if roles were reversed.
> 
> It also helps to know what the hell you're doing.. There are just some women, you don't smack on the ass. (like you) You have to size up the situation. I have personally never gotten a negative response from doing it.. Because I have done my homework, and built somewhat of a rapport with them first.
> 
> 
> And it has to be done in the right place. Older girls would pinch my ass in high school. But I just saw it as playful. If I did it to younger girls, or any girl, in school, it would be a different story.


I know, it's just the principle of it. If a woman doesn't want to be objectified by men, she ought not objectify men. I'm just not a fan of double standards or the 'lets get even by setting our standard lower' routine. Plus, being an INTJ, as you say, I'm not comfortable with physical contact other than a handful of people and we have a pretty solid history. On the other hand, I'm generally too timid to protest if it's a person I know and trusted up to that point, but I would react by distancing myself.

I don't have any real life male friends here in the US. Strange, since the vast majority of my friends were male back in Sweden. That said, we really never touched each other - that would have killed the distance needed for a solid friendship. Oxymoron, but you know what I mean, right? I did do the "real friends can sleep in the same bed" INTJ-cluelessnes-routine a few times, but I've grown up since and understood that all people aren't as outrageously innocent as some of us super-clueless INTJs are.


----------



## Caged Within

Swede said:


> This makes me mad! Why is it considered all right by some to touch men inappropriately but not women? I don't get it. It is creepy and wrong.
> I often remind my female colleagues that some things they say about/to our male colleagues is not appropriate. If its not right in one direction, it's not right in the other either.


Reason # 4528423578234759829879375924 of why I am terrible person: The three things that went through my mind after I escaped the club were, "Oh sweet, buttery Jesus, why?!?", "I need an adult! I need an adult!", and ".....Yeah....Still got it. "

But yeah, I agree. Everyone should be respected, regardless of sex. 



Swede said:


> Yeah, we don't trust easily and we don't take initiative. Most of the time, I'm totally fine living in my own head - as a matter of fact, I prefer it. People I hang with have to stimulate and challenge my intellect or it's not worth it. Social time cuts into my thinking time, so it tends to end up lower on my priority list. XD


I can remember my INTJ ex telling me the only reason he stayed with me for so long was because of the mind-stimulating convo and the sex. The other INTJs I know are similar, in that they need mental stimuli, or they bounce faster than a bad check. Things other people tend to like, like Michael Bay movies, are practically torture to the INTJs I know.


----------



## Swede

Caged Within said:


> .
> I can remember my INTJ ex telling me the only reason he stayed with me for so long was because of the mind-stimulating convo and the sex. The other INTJs I know are similar, in that they need mental stimuli, or they bounce faster than a bad check. Things other people tend to like, like Michael Bay movies, are practically torture to the INTJs I know.


Your intj ex sounds lovely. Not! We aren't all that mean. Plus "only reason" - what more can a person ask for? :laughing:

Ive never heard of Michael Bay. Sounds like I haven't missed anything.... ;-)


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## Caged Within

Swede said:


> Your intj ex sounds lovely. Not! We aren't all that mean. *Plus "only reason" - what more can a person ask for? :laughing:*














Swede said:


> Ive never heard of Michael Bay. Sounds like I haven't missed anything.... ;-)


True story.


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## Swede

Lol, I like you already @Caged Within!


----------



## Caged Within

Swede said:


> Lol, I like you already @_Caged Within_!











*Aw-shucks. I like you too.*​


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## nO_d3N1AL

I'm gonna go with ENFJ


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## BlackShugar

nO_d3N1AL said:


> I'm gonna go with ENFJ


My ex was an ENFJ and she was scary as fuck. Regarding the topic, I'd say ESFJ.


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## SweetPickles

ozones said:


> Do you live in the middle east? As far as i know those two types have the hardest time getting dates :laughing:


Disagree 100% and live in the USA. I don't think getting dates is type-related, it's based on physical attraction.

INFPs are pretty playful and have a quiet confidence about them, if they are attractive as well then automatic male-magnet. When their zany sense of humor comes out...bonus points. Don't forget the mysterious aura  I hear endearing a lot (not on this forum lol) and (I've never met anyone like you). 
We are also pretty hard to figure out. Although, I saw a worthy attempt of yours before. 

Some guys don't like attention whores.


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## MelBel

CaptainWildChild said:


> .....Calm your tits woah.....
> 
> LOL!!! Thank you for the laugh


----------



## Euclid

see, INFPs are playful too, but theirs is more imaginative (Ne) rather than sensous (Se) which is why I prefer INFPs. While both are personality characteristics, the former relates more to the body while the latter to the mind. I would guess that men for whom physical (sexual) attraction is more important, Se is more appealing than Ne, while for men for whom the feminine personality is more important Ne is more appealing. Generally introversion correlates with having a smaller social circle, but on the other hand form stronger bonds with those in their circle, so it would seem to me that extroverts are more likely to have flings and thus easier targets for men who just want casual sex, and thus again the introverts would seem more feminine. Having Fe or Fi is obviously feminine, so that narrows it down to INFP or INFJ.
QED. :tongue:


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## ozones

Euclid said:


> see, INFPs are playful too, but theirs is more imaginative (Ne) rather than sensous (Se) which is why I prefer INFPs. While both are personality characteristics, the former relates more to the body while the latter to the mind. I would guess that men for whom physical (sexual) attraction is more important, Se is more appealing than Ne, while for men for whom the feminine personality is more important Ne is more appealing. Generally introversion correlates with having a smaller social circle, but on the other hand form stronger bonds with those in their circle, so it would seem to me that extroverts are more likely to have flings and thus easier targets for men who just want casual sex, and thus again the introverts would seem more feminine. Having Fe or Fi is obviously feminine, so that narrows it down to INFP or INFJ.
> QED. :tongue:



You have a very twisted way of thinking. And i have a feeling you never got laid.


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## ozones

Lecky said:


> Disagree 100% and live in the USA. I don't think getting dates is type-related, it's based on physical attraction.
> 
> INFPs are pretty playful and have a quiet confidence about them, if they are attractive as well then automatic male-magnet. When their zany sense of humor comes out...bonus points. Don't forget the mysterious aura  I hear endearing a lot (not on this forum lol) and (I've never met anyone like you).
> We are also pretty hard to figure out. Although, I saw a worthy attempt of yours before.
> 
> Some guys don't like attention whores.



lol people who say that don't know what its like to actually have a personality on its own attract the opposite sex. 

Also why do all the NFs speak on behalf of an entire country? It recurring pattern that i keep noticing. Stop talking for other people.

I know plenty of hot guys who married meh girls because of their awesome personality. People on here are so twisted no wonder why you're all depressed and weird. Thats what happens when you see reality through a messed up lense.


Bottom line
Feminine: Dresses like a girl
Masculine: dress like a guy


Thats it. Since the beginning of time men and women had different personalities. So did each individual and none can be lumped into a category like so many people on here are obsessed with doing.


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## Euclid

ozones said:


> You have a very twisted way of thinking. And i have a feeling you never got laid.


I never tried to. That would spoil my gift to the one who is worthy :happy:


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## ozones

Euclid said:


> I never tried to. That would spoil my gift to the one who is worthy :happy:



lmao. The question is are you worthy to the 'one'? Hmmmmm


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## Euclid

ozones said:


> lmao. The question is are you worthy to the 'one'? Hmmmmm


That's not for you to decide. You don't fall into that category :wink:


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## SweetPickles

ozones said:


> lol people who say that don't know what its like to actually have a personality on its own attract the opposite sex.
> 
> Also why do all the NFs speak on behalf of an entire country? It recurring pattern that i keep noticing. Stop talking for other people.
> 
> I know plenty of hot guys who married meh girls because of their awesome personality. People on here are so twisted no wonder why you're all depressed and weird. Thats what happens when you see reality through a messed up lense.
> 
> 
> Bottom line
> Feminine: Dresses like a girl
> Masculine: dress like a guy
> 
> 
> Thats it. Since the beginning of time men and women had different personalities. So did each individual and none can be lumped into a category like so many people on here are obsessed with doing.


LOL, are you implying I don't have a personality? :gasps: I was trying to keep that secret  :dry:

I wasn't aware I was speaking for the entire country, some men like average looking women with awesome personalities. Some men like pretty women with zero personality, some men like other men. Etc. *You said that INFPs and ISFJs had the hardest time getting dates unless they live in the Middle East* which is beyond hilarious, are you speaking for the entire Middle East?

Depressed and weird, why the need to make that judgement? I can play that game too 

Feminine: has a vagina
Masculine: has a penis

I bet you know a lot of hot men


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## ozones

Euclid said:


> That's not for you to decide. You don't fall into that category :wink:


awww damnnnn :crying: Wait I decided I'm an NF now!!! Am i worthy yet?? lmao creep. 


Get over yourself, no one wants you.

Oh and anyone who takes this shit seriously enough to base who they date off of letters needs psychological help asap. Its one thing to say you admire certain traits in a person, but to use MBTI for that is retarded. No two people are the same idiot


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## ozones

> Depressed and weird, why the need to make that judgement?


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## SweetPickles

ozones said:


>


ISTPs are never depressed or weird


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## ozones

Lecky said:


> ISTPs are never depressed or weird



Im not an ISTP. If I'm any type which i don't think I am, it would be ESTP, ESFP or mayyyybe ESFJ

Basically a mixture of Se-Fe-Teroud:

But either way you're a nice judge, ill pass it on to the ISTPs


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## SweetPickles

ozones said:


> Im not an ISTP. If I'm any type which i don't think I am, it would be ESTP, ESFP or mayyyybe ESFJ
> 
> Basically a mixture of Se-Fe-Teroud:


Fe my ass, not yet. Where is your Ni? You seem very Ti

If you are an ESTP or ESFP you love INFPs trust me. I won't even comment on the ESFJ bc that you are not. If ISTP, you really admire us at first then quickly dislike our depth of feelings, and find us frustrating and confusing as fuck. Also all the types you may be above are not immune to being weird and depressed.


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## ozones

Lecky said:


> Fe my ass



lmao.


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## finesthour

I'm not taking this question too seriously . . . but I've encountered one woman in the blogosphere who directly stated her view that infp is the "most feminine type." And I've been able to divine the same point of view from reflecting on another woman in my past(make that two). I felt slightly baited by the ones I used to know.


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## finesthour

Re: Sily. I'm confused. How could an entire type be pretty and an entire type be gentle?


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## Bugs

Infj , enfp , infp


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## -Alpha-

ENFP. No idea how anyone comes up with anything different.


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## finesthour

It goes without saying that the most average woman is SF, but as you said people just want to talk about the stereotypes.


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## finesthour

-Alpha- said:


> ENFP. No idea how anyone comes up with anything different.


lol


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## Xenograft

I think ISFP.


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## finesthour

DonutsGalacticos said:


> I suppose INFJs and their Fe maybe?, ESFJ???, gayish INFPs?
> I consider myself to be pretty feminine in my gesticulations. I mean not always but once a while i feel like a woman.


Why is this "Fe is so feminine" attitude so pervasive. I don't know if I should accept it as a everyones unthinking bias or what. Sometimes Fi is the female stereotype though and it's more likely to be teased and made fun of.


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## finesthour

DonutsGalacticos said:


> I suppose INFJs and their Fe maybe?, ESFJ???, gayish INFPs?
> I consider myself to be pretty feminine in my gesticulations. I mean not always but once a while i feel like a woman.


Also, you seem pretty comfortable talking about "gayish INFPs." You must find the condescension amusing.


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## VoodooDolls

@_finesthour_ 

Well i consider myself a Fi dom user, not sure if INFP or ISFP, most likely ISFP so i think that Fi can be quite femenine too as i'm really gayish when it comes to gestures as i said there, also don't try to put much meaning in my comments, i don't try to make clever posts. Sometimes i wish i could but it drains my energy so much so i just comment what's on my mind in that moment. Most of time i'm joking about things that i don't necesarlly believe. In this case i was playing with stereotypes and those came to mind.

I don't really understand what you mean by "finding the condescension amusing" sorry but i'm not that good in english. 
If you meant that i find them inferior and that i'm making fun out of them then you're friggin wrong. I like every person within the gay comunity as much as i like or dislike every damn person in the world. Why they always have to play with advantage in this sense? why every comment about gays-*******-jews-etc has to be seen as arming?, they are not special, no one is.
In fact my gf have told me more than once that i seem to be really gayish in some aspects so don't try to digg much deeper cuz there's nothing.


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## MylesPrower

ENTJ, duh


----------



## nO_d3N1AL

http://www.statisticbrain.com/myers-briggs-statistics/


----------



## Kyro

Mutatio NOmenis:234230 said:


> I would say ESFJ. This is because it is the most popularly advertized type for women, and also because INTP women get a lot of flak for being themselves. Women "shouldn't" be the logical ones. They should be silly and emotional. The ideal femine type, without J or P has got to be ESF; the last letter is debatable ad infinitum.




"Are you sure you're INTP? You could be an ISFJ... you're a girl so-"


----------



## inthesnowman

Miyuki said:


> Which type and/or traits would you consider the most feminine, and *why*?
> 
> 
> why has no one so far explained why they decided that type, and just listed the type? I'd like to know people's opinions.
> 
> 
> I should probably do the same. I somewhat agree with my friend that INFJ is the most feminine and these would be the reasons:
> 
> Introversion:
> Extroverted people tend to be more assertive, and I don't think of feminine people boldly asserting themselves.


I think E is more feminine than I. Sure, E's a more assertive, but women are "supposed" to be chatty and go out with their "girlfriends" and such where as men typically sit at home on the couch and watch football and drink beer. (Going by the standard stereotype) I'd say an ESFJ is most organized. E, for the reasons above, S because N's are very abstract, applying concrete ideas to abstract principles where was S's are very concrete, a more "womanly" trait of not quite understanding the abstract principles that the man-folk are supposed to know, but knowing all the concrete details of their and their friends lives. F, for obvious reasons, and J because they are organized neat and tidy in their appearance and home. Now, I'm just making a standard feminine housewife stereotype.


----------



## Fynest One

1. Infj
2. Isfp
3. Isfj
4. Esfj


----------



## teodora.ghita

I'd rather say INFP in the most feminine , but she will need a housekeeper ))


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## TheBaconTaco25

This is a loaded question, but I’ll answer anyways. ESFJs are the most feminine, and ENTJs are the most masculine. This is why:
ESFJ Functions: FeSi. Fe is empathy (Feeling what others feel instead of their own emotions), which is definitely a more feminine trait, and Si (Tradition in lieu of adventure. Taking the safe side), which is slightly more feminine.
ENTJ Functions: TeNi. Te is Speaking Out for what you believe in and focusing on materials and success rather than people and happiness, which is, without a doubt, very masculine. Ni is Gut Feeling. Here is my ranking of the most masculine to feminine types (not based on functions):
ENTJ, ESTP, INTJ/ISTJ/ISTP, ESTJ, ENTP/INTP, ENFP/ESFP/INFP, INFJ, ENFJ, ISFP, ISFJ, ESFJ.
Most Likely to be Masculine: ENTJ, ESTP
Most Likely to be Feminine: ESFJ, ISFJ
Most Likely to be True to Themselves: IxxP, particularly IxFP


----------



## majogutierrez99

Miyuki said:


> Which type and/or traits would you consider the most feminine, and *why*?
> 
> For example, I have a friend who says that Introversion, Intuition, Feeling, and Judgment are the most feminine traits, therefore making INFJ the most feminine and ESTP the most masculine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edit:
> why has no one so far explained why they decided that type, and just listed the type? I'd like to know people's opinions.
> 
> 
> I should probably do the same. I somewhat agree with my friend that INFJ is the most feminine and these would be the reasons:
> 
> Introversion:
> Extroverted people tend to be more assertive, and I don't think of feminine people boldly asserting themselves.
> 
> Intuition:
> I definitely see females as more dreamy, imaginative, seeing possibilities. Complicated. Maybe theoretical.
> A lot of female communication is implied, rather then more macho-talk which is based on facts.
> 
> 
> Feeling: I really find it's more feminine to decide with your heart, then logic. Or at least do things out of emotion.
> 
> 
> Judgment:
> This one I somewhat disagreed with, but after a while, it did begin to make sense. Though it is more of this image I have.. Judging is people who like order, and such. Planning things out. Might seem stuck in their ways to the flexible P, which appeared to me as maybe more masculine. However, perceivers since they plan less or out of impulses often make more careless mistakes, and I honestly do see more guys more then girls acting without thinking.
> 
> I think I could explain it well this way:
> *J______* vs____________ P_____
> ESTJ - Supervisor___________ESTP - Persuader
> 
> ESFJ - Provider____________ ESFP - Entertainer
> ENTJ - Chief______________ ENTP - Originator
> ENFJ - Teacher *___* ENFP - Advocate
> ISTJ - Inspectors __________ISTP - Craftsman
> ISFJ - Nurturer____________ ISFP - Artist
> INTJ - Mastermind *_* INTP - Engineer
> INFJ - Counselor___________ INFP - Dreamer
> 
> In my opinion, it feels the J people are more behind-the-scenes type people, while the P's are the doers. (Even ENTJ and INTJ, if you think about it do work behind the scenes), but that's just how i see it.


i would say, 

i don't know... it's considered, that feminine energy is related to be calmed, to reflexion, night, feeling, advice... but why it is considered feminine energy? 

i found women who are very active, energetic, sociable, enthuasts.. the oposite thing, and they seem feminine anyways.


----------



## TheBaconTaco25

majogutierrez99 said:


> i would say,
> 
> i don't know... it's considered, that feminine energy is related to be calmed, to reflexion, night, feeling, advice... but why it is considered feminine energy?
> 
> i found women who are very active, energetic, sociable, enthuasts.. the oposite thing, and they seem feminine anyways.


I can agree with you. The feminine person in my head is energetic and sociable. Femininity does not equal low-energy in my opinion. I think they represent more of a high energy. That’s why I placed ESFJ at the most feminine


----------



## Morea

I am an ENFJ woman and can tell you I do am extremely feminine! I really do care about how a woman should dress and style and behave to be defined a “real woman” - my models are beautiful and charming women like Gwyneth Paltrow or Marion Cotillard... I do love make up and high heels (always wear them when I am at work!). I also think ESFJ are very feminine - like her or not, Jennifer Lopez should be an ESFJ type and I think she is heavily feminine! Moreover F types hold by nature a warm charm and delicate strength which in my opinion is by definition part of being feminine!


----------



## LeafStew

It's true SFJ are quite feminine, all F types are to some extent.

I would say that as an INFP that I'm a cry baby lol


----------



## Mattias

INFP because the relation to feminine characteristic of passivity.


----------



## BroNerd

From my personal experience - I would say the XXFJ types. Fe is filled with stereotypical feminine traits. 
Maybe SFJ over NFJ because SFJ is more likely to conform to societal expectations. However, I wouldn't call NFJ masculine at all.


----------



## TheBaconTaco25

LeafStew said:


> It's true SFJ are quite feminine, all F types are to some extent.
> 
> I would say that as an INFP that I'm a cry baby lol


An actual crybaby INFP. That’s rare


----------



## Electra

The feeler types, driven by estrogen and oxytocin.


----------



## Electra

TheBaconTaco25 said:


> An actual crybaby INFP. That’s rare


Heh, me too 😄 🤗


----------



## TheBaconTaco25

Electra said:


> The feeler types, driven by estrogen and oxytocin.


Doubt that


----------

