# How does Ni show itself?



## Azwan (Nov 2, 2010)

I am asking this because I would like to know how does Ni work; how does it manifests itself when giving the "A-ha!" moment. Frankly speaking I have never really known how does Ni show itself - I mean, it just comes, right?

I am asking Ni doms (INFJ, INTJ) how does this "A-ha" moment presents itself and how it does work in order to present itself. Does it come from dreams? Does it come from physical sensations which usually exposes some sort of a reaction to it or as gut feeling in other words?

I am also asking Ni auxiliary users (ENTJ, ENFJ) how does Ni support your dominant functions. What does it exactly do? How does Ni support your judging function? Does Ni process information to get the general idea of said information at hand? Does Ni give you visions? How?

This is because I'm straddled between ENTJ and INTJ - the both have been said to be very similar in terms of how they do things, how they go about leading groups etc. Maybe the usage of Ni could determine the difference between these two and also give me closure.

P.S. - auxiliary Ni users, did you go through an introverted period during your adolescence? Is it because of Ni development that causes you to become introverted?


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## Zeptometer (Dec 5, 2010)

Uwace said:


> I am asking this because I would like to know how does Ni work; how does it manifests itself when giving the "A-ha!" moment. Frankly speaking I have never really known how does Ni show itself - I mean, it just comes, right?
> 
> I am asking Ni doms (INFJ, INTJ) how does this "A-ha" moment presents itself and how it does work in order to present itself. Does it come from dreams? Does it come from physical sensations which usually exposes some sort of a reaction to it or as gut feeling in other words?
> 
> ...


Okay, I know you aren't looking for any input from a Ne, but I have a best friend who's an INTJ, and I think if I use her as an example it might help you.

So, she's an author, and we often have conversations about her books. Her Ni gives her a really good sort of imagination, but at times she can seem like she needs a break, as though its getting difficult to explore her mind's eye, as the ideas become more and more forced. Then, either she just waits for awhile and sort of passively thinks about it, or I come in with my Ne, throw out some ideas, and one of them just CLICKS, and she is suddenly jumpstarted again.


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## Azwan (Nov 2, 2010)

So Ni works as if it's searching something? But then again, how does Ni have the basis for searching?


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## Raichan (Jul 15, 2010)

Ni is forming intuitive conclusions from internal data. Metaphorically, it's also opening an inner eye in your mind. I experience it in terms of visions, imaginative connections and at times, physical sensations.

It's like quick ''aha'' insights from patterns of subconsciously registered details or cues of emotional related knowledge that aren't necessarily perceived with only the eyes. I see it as moments of ''just knowing'' or ''quick concluding'' based on information derived on how your inner world has been shaped, connected in order to determine certain views on the outside world.

Sorry I'm speaking from experience.


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## Gildar (Aug 4, 2010)

from the INFJ section. It was before this section came about.

introverted intuition


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## SarahWilliams (May 5, 2010)

Uwace said:


> I am asking this because I would like to know how does Ni work; how does it manifests itself when giving the "A-ha!" moment. Frankly speaking I have never really known how does Ni show itself - I mean, it just comes, right?
> 
> I am asking Ni doms (INFJ, INTJ) how does this "A-ha" moment presents itself and how it does work in order to present itself. Does it come from dreams? Does it come from physical sensations which usually exposes some sort of a reaction to it or as gut feeling in other words?
> 
> ...


(from another thread I wrote, which is now cited on this thread... hmmm ) 

definition of Ni: I think of Ni as an architects plans. Concrete, building out, bricks one-after-another. Future-oriented, but in a kind of defined linear way. I gather lots of evidence, and start to form definite conclusions. Decides what will be. I may have many possibilities, but start to reject them as they don't seem to fit my concrete idea. Ni starts to close down onto a small number of ideas. Ni likes to rule out what is not possible. 

Ni seems to be more 1,2, 3 ------> 10. 

In my experience, the evidence I gather to make conclusions with Ni can really be anything. Usually they start out as observations, that strike an 'oh that's interesting' note in my head. Pull together a couple 'oh that's interesting' notes and then I'll skip to what I think is happening. 

A good example of my Ni: One day I offered my boss a cup of coffee and she said, 'No thanks, I'm giving up caffeine' - which I thought was kind of odd, but went with it. Then she had a doctor's appointment one day, and I noticed she returned to work with her husband - which again, seemed kind of odd. So 1,2 ----> 10. I decided she was pregnant. It took her a couple of weeks to let us know... but when everyone else was surprised, I kind of just sat there nodding. That, to me, is Ni at work.


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## Gildar (Aug 4, 2010)

Uwace said:


> I am asking this because I would like to know how does Ni work; how does it manifests itself when giving the "A-ha!" moment. Frankly speaking I have never really known how does Ni show itself - I mean, it just comes, right?
> 
> *I am asking Ni doms (INFJ, INTJ) how does this "A-ha" moment presents itself and how it does work in order to present itself. Does it come from dreams? Does it come from physical sensations which usually exposes some sort of a reaction to it or as gut feeling in other words?*
> 
> ...


you were also asking about how Ni doms use it..... i bolded it in the quote


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## Azwan (Nov 2, 2010)

Hmmm.... I need to do some introspecting and reflection as to how I use my Ni.

Thank you to all for the feedback, though.


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## SarahWilliams (May 5, 2010)

Uwace said:


> Hmmm.... I need to do some introspecting and reflection as to how I use my Ni.
> 
> Thank you to all for the feedback, though.


Well really, if you're stuck between INTJ and ENTJ - you just need to figure out whether you use Te or Ni more. Right? 

Ni is more data-gathering/thinking, Te is much more harsh - logical efficiency above all else. Te is the external judging you project to others. 

In my experience INTJs and ENTJs are similar... but ENTJs are more forceful, and INTJs are quieter. They go about making the same reality, but INTJs are string-pullers. ENTJs are blunt orderers. INTJs can be equally blunt, but there is a definite pause as the person runs through Ni.


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## Azwan (Nov 2, 2010)

SarahWilliams said:


> Well really, if you're stuck between INTJ and ENTJ - you just need to figure out whether you use Te or Ni more. Right?
> 
> Ni is more data-gathering/thinking, Te is much more harsh - logical efficiency above all else. Te is the external judging you project to others.
> 
> In my experience INTJs and ENTJs are similar... but ENTJs are more forceful, and INTJs are quieter. They go about making the same reality, but INTJs are string-pullers. ENTJs are blunt orderers. INTJs can be equally blunt, but there is a definite pause as the person runs through Ni.


Here's the strange part: my Te is higher than my Ni, yet the order of Fi is still higher than Se.

ENTJ = Te Ni Se Fi

INTJ = Ni Te Fi Se

Mine had Te, Ni, Ti, Ni, Ne, Si, Fi, Se, Fe.

String-pullers as in subtle manipulation and perhaps sarcastic comments?

Basically does it boil down to sociability?


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## SarahWilliams (May 5, 2010)

Uwace said:


> Here's the strange part: my Te is higher than my Ni, yet the order of Fi is still higher than Se.
> 
> ENTJ = Te Ni Se Fi
> 
> ...


How did you figure out your function order? If you took a function test online... they are fraught with errors for most people. After the first two or three functions, I am not good at figuring out what the heck I'm using... it just isn't obvious. 

Plus, I think it's fairly accepted that Myers Briggs is a best fit model. So, whichever type you fit with the best, even though you may have slightly differing function levels. For example - in the INFJ forum, there are people with all sorts of functions... including some with fairly developed Si (which is towards the bottom of the INFJ function spectrum). I hardly use Si, so those users are just a different flavor of the same type. 

It looks like you are definitely an NT. I would guess, based on this very limited conversation, that you are more INTJ than ENTJ. ?

I don't think it boils down to sociability, as the function levels definitely determine what you are... but that said, if you have a clear preference (I or E) that could definitely be taken into account. 

ENTJs enjoy using people to accomplish goals... a natural born leader. An ENTJ I know is in graduate school, and she still will send me messages on facebook demanding I do things for her. It can be slightly veiled, like 'hey want to go to this concert? PS DEFINITELY SEND ME A MESSAGE TOMORROW LETTING ME KNOW IF YOU WANT TO GO OR NOT' Like directness taken to the nth amount. She wants to involve people, with force, into her vision. 

INTJs are less likely to force their vision onto others, but are quiet leaders... for example, they will step up if the group has no other leader, or poor leadership. They are direct, but like I said, Ni tempers it a bit. INTJs also don't seem to understand social rituals for the sake of social rituals... like, 'why do we have to have a homecoming dance in high school?' They are content to be by themselves to accomplish goals, and people are good to be involved, but not completely necessary. To me INTJs don't seem to manipulate people, so much as just let the conversation go in a certain direction until it crosses a line, then they step in a direct it back to fit into their opinion - making sure the group decision fits in with their own. INTJs can be darkly humored, or sarcastic, but for me there has always been a sort of purity in their actions. Like they are doing what they think is right (Ni) and just using logic (Te) to accomplish that end.


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## Azwan (Nov 2, 2010)

SarahWilliams said:


> How did you figure out your function order? If you took a function test online... they are fraught with errors for most people. After the first two or three functions, I am not good at figuring out what the heck I'm using... it just isn't obvious.
> 
> Plus, I think it's fairly accepted that Myers Briggs is a best fit model. So, whichever type you fit with the best, even though you may have slightly differing function levels. For example - in the INFJ forum, there are people with all sorts of functions... including some with fairly developed Si (which is towards the bottom of the INFJ function spectrum). I hardly use Si, so those users are just a different flavor of the same type.
> 
> ...


If you say that MBTI is a best fit model, surely there has to be profiles for us to fit, right? I know there's tons of profiles out there, but then is there a profile without all the flowery descriptions that over exaggerate how the personality type is?


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## UncertainSomething (Feb 17, 2010)

To me its kind of like finding the numbers on a combination lock but not knowing what the numbers are beforehand... then aha! the moment it happens.


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## Azwan (Nov 2, 2010)

Could you explain this "moment"? Does it mean that you get the combination out of inspiration or something like that?


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## Green Girl (Oct 1, 2010)

Uwace said:


> Here's the strange part: my Te is higher than my Ni, yet the order of Fi is still higher than Se.
> 
> ENTJ = Te Ni Se Fi
> 
> ...


My ENTJ son is a lot like me and his INTJ brother, and although he is more sociable than we are, he still likes plenty of solo time. The big difference is that he HAS to be in control of what is around him, always thinks the world should make sense, and indignantly tries to set it straight when it doesn't. That's his dominant Te. INTJs also want the world to make sense and to have control, but we are more interested in figuring out the sense in how things are connected than in changing them. That's the dominant Ni. 

After reading the ENTJ threads, my son seems typical of that quite distinctive personality type - hard to miss, really. At a guess, from reading your posts, you seem more INTJ to me.


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## SarahWilliams (May 5, 2010)

Uwace said:


> If you say that MBTI is a best fit model, surely there has to be profiles for us to fit, right? I know there's tons of profiles out there, but then is there a profile without all the flowery descriptions that over exaggerate how the personality type is?


Ideally, yes, haha. A lot of the descriptions are quite flowery. INFJs have one of the 'worst' profiles... because we are described as practically saint-like by lots of sites. Which of course, we aren't.

I'm assuming you've visited the normal webpages that come up in google searches... and read those descriptions? like:
Keirsey Temperament Website - Overview of the Four Temperaments 
The Personality Type Portraits
TypeLogic Home Page

I can't claim accuracy for any of those descriptions... and usually they are overly flowery like you suggest. This website has a good INFJ description, I also enjoy his INTJ description: 

INTJ The Personality Junkie

PS, good luck with your search!


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## Azwan (Nov 2, 2010)

I noticed that this site only mentions INs and I found the descriptions rather good, though I won't be making any decisions until I've seen the good description on ENTJ. meanwhile, I am on the search.


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## Raichan (Jul 15, 2010)

I've also been thinking, I at time (if I'm correct) see Ni as quick converging of mental structural images or imaginary based scenes to form internal based conclusions. Ni can concentrate on envisioning events and ideas timelessly especially if the internal convictions are strong due to the subconscious and quick connections found in different emotional or imagination related possibilities.

(I think so...me no MBTI expert )

Thus, the great Ni moments are those moments that feel like ''clear clarity.'' ''Just knowing'' and ''just understanding'' even without being able to put them in words.


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## UncertainSomething (Feb 17, 2010)

Uwace said:


> Could you explain this "moment"? Does it mean that you get the combination out of inspiration or something like that?


Well its like something pops into your head from apparent random things, these random things kind of all converge out of nowhere and then it just all makes sense. I think it is partly inspiration based, like something is interesting I suppose and then it searches for everything to do with that thing. Hard to explain, its just you know because it makes sense but can't quite explain why until it happens.


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## Quelzalcoatl (Dec 6, 2010)

For me, Ni works when I'm in conversation with someone. I hear what they mean, instead of what they say, the undercurrent, if you will, and they can say the nicest things to me, but if the undercurrent doesn't match, I'll be on my toes and highly suspicious.

Another example with Ni was when my boyfriend who'd recently become my ex called me because he wanted to call off band practice. He told me that one of the other members'd gotten sick, and now we wouldn't be able to pay for the studio room. I told him it was fine, I would chip in the extra money, but he said he'd already called off. I heard what he said, but my inners immediately screamed that he was lying, that he just didn't want me there and I told him that, "It's fine, I already know what's going on." Following week, he calls me and confirms my hunch.

A different instance is when I'm doing an activity in which I have to be mentally idle for a longer than ten minutes, my mind starts wandering. This occurs in showers, while doing the dishes, folding laundry, et cetera. I let my mind wander, and when I have finished the activity, I have suddenly made connections with things that previously seemed huge problems, solving most of them.

*EDIT:* I just remembered another one. You have to realise that I'm quite shit when it comes to numbers; I have dyscalculia. However, I have often just blurted out the solution to a problem given without really calculating it, and it ends up being correct. When I'm then asked how I came with the answer, I can only stare and shrug.


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