# INTP Arrogance vs. INTJ Arrogance



## steelbadgers89

Eleventeenth said:


> Why are INTP's good at appellate briefing? Because they are able to prepare something in writing and then just read it?


When you create an appellate brief, you do not read it to the court. You merely submit it for them to read prior to an oral argument. There's a business adage about law firms-- the "finders" the "minders" and the "grinders."

Finders go out and seek clientele. They also get a substantial amount of money for doing little actual legal work... but, they do bring in work. These are the outgoing type.
Minders deal with clients on a personal level, and also work with the grinders.
Grinders are the grunts (associate level...) who do the research and due-diligence.

I'm a grinder myself..


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## PurpleTree

Unassimilated said:


> Two giant assholes watching a mushroom cloud! I defer to your subtle imagery, not least because it is time to sleep. Though I am the asshole on the left, as it is slightly larger and more symmetrical.


*tilts head*
o___O
I will never be able to look at that image in the same way...


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## tooboku

All this talk about assholes sounds like foreplay.


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## absentminded

Erudis said:


> About the INTJs, well they just don't have souls, that's why they're that way.


INTJs are the gingers of MBTI.


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## Eleventeenth

steelbadgers89 said:


> Not related to quote, but truthfully if you were interested in seeing just how abstract legal analysis can be, you should read the opinion of the case Palsgraf v. Long Island Railroad Co., here:Palsgraf
> 
> The opinion starts right below where it says CARDOZO, Ch. J.
> 
> Its a seminal decision which ruminates at discourse about to what extent does one person owe another a legal duty (under doctrine of negligence) and it also talks about legal causation. Its a fascinating example of how abstract and theoretical the law really is.


Oh yeah, that's cool stuff. Right up an NT's alley. Midway through the 2nd paragraph I thought to myself, "Most SJ's wouldn't even want to touch this", let alone do it all day long. It's basically a complicated word problem - and the law is the "logic" that must be followed to solve it, find loopholes, find "outs", etc. 



steelbadgers89 said:


> When you create an appellate brief, you do not read it to the court. You merely submit it for them to read prior to an oral argument. There's a business adage about law firms-- the "finders" the "minders" and the "grinders."
> 
> Finders go out and seek clientele. They also get a substantial amount of money for doing little actual legal work... but, they do bring in work. These are the outgoing type.
> Minders deal with clients on a personal level, and also work with the grinders.
> Grinders are the grunts (associate level...) who do the research and due-diligence.
> 
> I'm a grinder myself..


Interesting. So, which one of those 3 are usually best in the courtroom? All three, but with different strengths? The finder sounds like the ENTP/ENTJ, the minder could be either INT or ENT (both), and the grinder would most likely be INT. Do you like being a grinder, or would you maybe get more satisfaction from being a minder?


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## RogueWave

I love how INTJs and INTPs continue to gain comfort from looking at each other and saying "At least I'm not that guy". 

And as to which is more arrogant, it doesn't matter. The NTs have a collective superiority complex. It's a side effect of being right all the time.


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## PurpleTree

absentminded said:


> INTJs are the gingers of MBTI.


That’s funny. We build shrines for those, too. 

Smaller than the shrines where we worship ourselves, though, of course.


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## steelbadgers89

Eleventeenth said:


> Oh yeah, that's cool stuff. Right up an NT's alley. Midway through the 2nd paragraph I thought to myself, "Most SJ's wouldn't even want to touch this", let alone do it all day long. It's basically a complicated word problem - and the law is the "logic" that must be followed to solve it, find loopholes, find "outs", etc.


The "dissenting" opinion by Andrews is far more interesting (halfway down page). I'd recommend reading that.




Eleventeenth said:


> Interesting. So, which one of those 3 are usually best in the courtroom? All three, but with different strengths? The finder sounds like the ENTP/ENTJ, the minder could be either INT or ENT (both), and the grinder would most likely be INT. Do you like being a grinder, or would you maybe get more satisfaction from being a minder?


Finder > grinder > minder for $$$
Finder = grinder > minder for job security
minder > finder > grinder for low stress levels

The person in the courtroom is usually whoever is most prepared. The reality of the situation is, the grinders often put their research into legal memos for other lawyers. There's no real formula for who speaks in front of the court, except to say that it just falls to whomever feels the most adequate. I've been in several situations where I did the majority of the work, but since it was an important case, the oral argument was left to a more experienced senior partner.


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## Abraxas

Pride said:


> I always hear people complaining (whether it be serious or in jest) about both of these types being "arrogant, cold, emotionless, full of themselves, dismissive, etc." amongst other vulgar descriptions.
> 
> So, there has got to be some semblance of truth, right? Maybe?
> 
> If both INTPs and INTJs are giant assholes, how do they differ on being assholes? What are the different asshole tactics that either type tends to employ in everyday situations?


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## Sanskrit

darkewe said:


> That’s funny. We build shrines for those, too.
> 
> Smaller than the shrines where we worship ourselves, though, of course.


Well, after a certain point the shrine stops being a shrine and becomes a temple... And pardon me I have a mass to attend to. Today's topic: "How awesome Sanskrit truly is? Hold tight to your seat God, for He is coming."


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## Eleventeenth

steelbadgers89 said:


> The "dissenting" opinion by Andrews is far more interesting (halfway down page). I'd recommend reading that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finder > grinder > minder for $$$
> Finder = grinder > minder for job security
> minder > finder > grinder for low stress levels
> 
> The person in the courtroom is usually whoever is most prepared. The reality of the situation is, the grinders often put their research into legal memos for other lawyers. There's no real formula for who speaks in front of the court, except to say that it just falls to whomever feels the most adequate. I've been in several situations where I did the majority of the work, but since it was an important case, the oral argument was left to a more experienced senior partner.


I see. The mental puzzles part of it sounds great. But, you hear a lot of lawyers saying, "Don't do it. Just don't do it." ---> oversaturated job market, tough work, takes years to get anywhere, etc. I think if anyone could handle that (and actually get some real enjoyment/satisfaction from it) over the long haul, it might be the INTJ. 

I've seen INTP lawyers on forums saying that they enjoy some aspects of it, but overall they say it's a very tough business to be in. It's one of those, "keep your nose to the grindstone" kind of careers. The NT puzzle part of it seems like it'd make for some very interesting (in a good way) days at the office.


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## Abraxas

Alright, let's start this shit up.



Carl Jung - Introverted Thinking said:


> External facts are not the aim and origin of this thinking, although the introvert would often like to make it so appear. It begins in the subject, and returns to the subject, although it may [p. 481] undertake the widest flights into the territory of the real and the actual. Hence, in the statement of new facts, its chief value is indirect, because new views rather than the perception of new facts are its main concern. It formulates questions and creates theories; it opens up prospects and yields insight, but in the presence of facts it exhibits a reserved demeanour. As illustrative examples they have their value, but they must not prevail. Facts are collected as evidence or examples for a theory, but never for their own sake. Should this latter ever occur, it is done only as a compliment to the extraverted style. For this kind of thinking facts are of secondary importance; what, apparently, is of absolutely paramount importance is the development and presentation of the subjective idea, that primordial symbolical image standing more or less darkly before the inner vision. Its aim, therefore, is never concerned with an intellectual reconstruction of concrete actuality, but with the shaping of that dim image into a resplendent idea.



Status of INTPs:

[ ] Told
[ ] Extremely Told
[ ] Fuckin' Told
[ ] Ninten-Told
[ ] The Legendary Super Told-yan
[ ] Grim Ba-Told
[ ] Knights of the Told Republic
[ ] Shadow of the Toldossus
[ ] Toldal Recall
[ ] Tolden Sun: The Told Age
[ ] Told McDonald Had a Farm
[ ] Toccata and Fugue In Told Minor
[ ] Barrel Told
[ ] Stone Told Steve Austin
[ ] Visited The Doctor and Got Diagnosed With A Told
[ ] Told Navy
[ ] J.R.R. Toldkien
[ ] Battletolds
[ ] Toldercoaster Tycoon
[ ] All Glory To The Hypnotold
[ ] Cats In The Cradle And The Silver Told
[x] No Country For Told Men.


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## steelbadgers89

Eleventeenth said:


> I see. The mental puzzles part of it sounds great. But, you hear a lot of lawyers saying, "Don't do it. Just don't do it." ---> oversaturated job market, tough work, takes years to get anywhere, etc. I think if anyone could handle that (and actually get some real enjoyment/satisfaction from it) over the long haul, it might be the INTJ.
> 
> I've seen INTP lawyers on forums saying that they enjoy some aspects of it, but overall they say it's a very tough business to be in. It's one of those, "keep your nose to the grindstone" kind of careers. The NT puzzle part of it seems like it'd make for some very interesting (in a good way) days at the office.


Well, to leave you with final thoughts, as I stated earlier there are a substantial number of bad lawyers out there. Most of these bad lawyers can't think abstractly. The job market is over-saturated, that is definitely true. But good law students/attorneys will find jobs. The part about taking years to get anywhere is also true.

The part about hard work is the most true. It's absurd sometimes. 

Oh, and most people think you're a leech/crook/politician/etc.


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## ALNF1031

Abraxas said:


>


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## Abraxas

Alddous1031 said:


>


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## Unassimilated

Abraxas said:


>


Squuueeeeeeeee!!!111!1! LOLcatz FTW etc.

I may have gone off topic and indeed off type. Now I am just off. Nothing to see here. Move along.


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## Transcendence

Souljorn said:


> i think being cold is an NT trait, people call me an asshole but that's better than being an emotional queer....


*Twitch twitch* 

Emotional... queer?


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## Souljorn

TheOpenDoor said:


> *Twitch twitch*
> 
> Emotional... queer?


I see what you're doing there....very clever'



If i dont want to be emotional i wont be be there 100 puppies drowing or 10 humans crying i simply dont care for external negative stimuli. Do i feel like it makes me better? Fuck yeah


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## absentminded

Abraxas said:


>


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## Jennywocky

steelbadgers89 said:


> It's hard not to be arrogant when our dominant function is Ni. Imagine simply "knowing" something without actually really processing it. Now imagine "knowing" something ends up being true most of the time. Now imagine simply "knowing" something that's true while being surrounded by a world full of sensing/feeling imbeciles. It's not easy, but I wouldn't trade my Ni/Te for anything.


You poor dear; it must be painfully difficult for you.

Maybe you'd be happier being down here with us mere mortals Ti-types who can point out where your logic potentially took a turn south. :laughing:


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## absentminded

Jennywocky said:


> You poor dear; it must be painfully difficult for you.
> 
> Maybe you'd be happier being down here with us mere mortals Ti-types who can point out where your logic *always takes* a turn south. :laughing:


Fixed that for you.

When me and my dad (INTJ) debate, I only loose when I jump in without thinking. I can always poke hole after hole in his logic.


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## Jennywocky

absentminded said:


> Fixed that for you.
> 
> When me and my dad (INTJ) debate, I only loose when I jump in without thinking. I can always poke hole after hole in his logic.


The question is: Does he even care and/or does it matter in terms of the argument?


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## Sanskrit

absentminded said:


> When me and my dad (INTJ) debate, I only loose when I jump in without thinking. I can always poke hole after hole in his logic.


Are you absolutely sure you win because of his INTJ'ness instead of the fact that you just might be smarter than him? There is a difference in that. Cognitive processes have very little to do with the intelligence in the end.


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## PurpleTree

Jennywocky said:


> The question is: Does he even care and/or does it matter in terms of the argument?


If by _care_, you mean _considers his side_, I should think so. He may not acknowledge it in said argument, but I’m sure he thought about it later, unless he really is one of our asshole models.


_<-- Secretly wants at least one INTP child if she ever reproduces. _


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## absentminded

Jennywocky said:


> The question is: Does he even care and/or does it matter in terms of the argument?


Usually he doesn't and it's usually a minor points like the metaphor he's using to make his case or something similar. He and I really only argue after I've had an argument with my SJ mom or I've gotten in some other "trouble" so I'm already "wrong" on the large scale.

He and I see the world so differently that I don't really seek him out. My INFJ brother makes for far better philosophical discussions.



Sanskrit said:


> Are you absolutely sure you win because of his INTJ'ness instead of the fact that you just might be smarter than him? There is a difference in that. Cognitive processes have very little to do with the intelligence in the end.


I've thought about that. I am naturally better than him at math (I picked up calculus and ODEs long before he did), but he routinely owns me in more practical arenas and he's one of the principle engineers at his company so I'd say he and I are on basically equal footing in the intelligence department.


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## Abraxas

You probably see it differently because you're a Ti-dom.

Refer to my post and what Carl Jung had to say about Ti. Everything you have said fits it perfectly.


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## L

@Abraxas this has nothing to do with the thread, but I just had to say that your new avatar is a definite keeper


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## Abraxas

L_Lawliet said:


> @Abraxas this has nothing to do with the thread, but I just had to say that your new avatar is a definite keeper


Thanks 

It looked to do a good job of expressing my typical 'look' and attitude since I more or less dress the same way and have the same hairstyle/facial expression, same body type, and I have a pet black cat. My hair is dark brown though, not snow white, unfortunately. Kaworu just needs a pair of glasses and some hair-dye to finish the look, then we'd be identical.


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## L

Abraxas said:


> Thanks
> 
> It looked to do a good job of expressing my typical 'look' and attitude since I more or less dress the same way and have the same hairstyle/facial expression, same body type, and I have a pet black cat. My hair is dark brown though, not snow white, unfortunately. Kaworu just needs a pair of glasses and some hair-dye to finish the look, then we'd be identical.


Sweet! 

I'm still struggling to find that perfect L picture that speaks to me....

EDIT: I like this one very much right now, we will see if I still feel this way later on in the month. I think it captures "me" quite well. Looking towards the future into what I hope to be a radiating world filled with warmth, yet still pondering what could be and how I can make this future a reality, atleast something to that effect if I made any sense whatsoever.


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## redmanXNTP

Pride said:


> I always hear people complaining (whether it be serious or in jest) about both of these types being "arrogant, cold, emotionless, full of themselves, dismissive, etc." amongst other vulgar descriptions.
> 
> So, there has got to be some semblance of truth, right? Maybe?
> 
> If both INTPs and INTJs are giant assholes, how do they differ on being assholes? What are the different asshole tactics that either type tends to employ in everyday situations?


It's not arrogance if I actually am better.


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## Abraxas

redmanXNTP said:


> It's not arrogance if I actually am better.


It is if you think you are, when in fact you are not.


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## NeedsNewNameNow

The way I see it, INTJ arrogance takes on a know-it-all attitude. They insist they are right even when they aren't and won't admit differently

INTP- I can speak for myself, others maybe different. I'm usually not sure enough about my views to get arrogant, but I do get arrogant in these situations:
- when I am sure about something and feel others aren't listening
- when someone is trying to tell me that their opinion which is based on whim or gut feeling has equal or greater weight to one which I have extensively thought about
- when I'm forced to work with someone and hand-hold them through it because they don't have the grasp on something I do


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## PurpleTree

Since someone revived this thread and I’m feeling write-y today, I think I’ll have a go at a straight answer this time, as opposed to a demonstration.



Pride said:


> I always hear people complaining (whether it be serious or in jest) about both of these types being "arrogant, cold, emotionless, full of themselves, dismissive, etc." amongst other vulgar descriptions.
> 
> So, there has got to be some semblance of truth, right? Maybe?
> 
> If both INTPs and INTJs are giant assholes, how do they differ on being assholes? What are the different asshole tactics that either type tends to employ in everyday situations?


First thing is first: These are stereotypes - dramatically oversimplified, unexplained, and inaccurate. Also, just because someone _comes across_ as an asshole, doesn’t mean they _actually are_ one.

Semantics aside, I think @RogueWave pretty much hit the nail on the head:



RogueWave said:


> And as to which is more arrogant, it doesn't matter. The NTs have a collective superiority complex. It's a side effect of being right all the time.


And I’ll just adjust @NeedsNewNameNow’s description of INTP arrogance to highlight what Rogue was referring to: 


NeedsNewNameNow said:


> The INTP *ALL NTs*- I can speak for myself, others maybe different. I'm usually not sure enough about my views to get arrogant, but I do get arrogant in these situations:
> - when I am sure about something and feel others aren't listening
> - when someone is trying to tell me that their opinion which is based on whim or gut feeling has equal or greater weight to one which I have extensively thought about
> - when I'm forced to work with someone and hand-hold them through it because they don't have the grasp on something I do


:tongue:​

_Let’s break this down! _
With both types being intuitives, we aren’t so concerned with the here and now. Considering the world population is predominantly sensors, we can be a frustrating lot to deal with. When they ask us a straight question, like “What makes you guys such assholes?,” we could go off on a debate about which MBTI type makes a better lawyer, or facetiously spout out Tolkien references and get caught in plays with semantics hardly relevant to the actual question. :wink:
Secondly, both types are thinkers, which means we both prefer to stay objective and detached; which, in at least the Western world, is not the idealized mentality. Not putting enough weight on caring and fairness equates to the “cold” and “distant” adjectives very likely getting pinned on us.

_Now, the specifics!_
Personally, I think a healthy and well-developed INTP is quite difficult to distinguish from a healthy and well-developed INTJ without getting to know them in great depth and confidence. The stereotypes soon to be addressed in detail primarily apply to unhealthy, underdeveloped INTxs, or those in surroundings that suit those adjectives. The J/P difference between these types (despite what many seem to think) is barely noticeable outside of these conditions.


*INTP = The Smart Ass*
The INTP package includes Ti-Ne-Si-Fe, perfect ingredients for a delicious asshole.  Ew.

This can mean INTPs are so wrapped up in their ideas that they never actually completely express them (or express them at all), draw a lot of false conclusions, and neglect the feelings of others.

The most pervasive bad-INTP stereotype tossed around is their “inability” to _do_ anything due to their objective indecisiveness. This usually happens when Ti is in overdrive and/or the INTP in question is a complete lazy ass. Who better to shoot down both your bad and good ideas with than an unhealthy INTP? Through introverted thinking, these INTPs can (and often will) build a war trench of irrefutable logic between themselves and anyone; ironically, often those they care about. So, while paralyzed with self-doubt themselves, they bring everyone else down with them, whether they are aware that they are doing it or not.


*INTJ = The Jerk*
INTJs come with Ni-Te-Fi-Se: another fun, asshole-tastic combination!

So, INTJs can be misguided by hunches, act like more than a bit of a bossy fascist, and get blindsided by their feelings. _Oh noes!_

The most common stereotype thrown about regarding INTJs is their assumed inability to let go of their beliefs when obvious proof against them is presented. 

I.E.


NeedsNewNameNow said:


> The way I see it, INTJ arrogance takes on a know-it-all attitude. They insist they are right even when they aren't and won't admit differently


Unhealthy INTJs that cling to what they feel _should_ be are the primary examples of this sort of “asshole.” Note that I wrote “feel,” because this isn’t a logical conclusion. This is when logic has failed them in some way and they fall victim to their Fi. INTJs spend a lot of time thinking about what they have made their decisions on, and, when logic seems faulty, they can have a lot of trouble backtracking to find where they made their mistakes (especially if either their Te is underdeveloped or Ni is overdeveloped). They can thus jump to the conclusion that they aren’t wrong, because they _should_ be right, they’re _always_ right!


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## NeedsNewNameNow

darkewe said:


> Personally, I think a healthy and well-developed INTP is quite difficult to distinguish from a healthy and well-developed INTJ without getting to know them in great depth and confidence. The stereotypes soon to be addressed in detail primarily apply to unhealthy, underdeveloped INTxs, or those in surroundings that suit those adjectives. The J/P difference between these types (despite what many seem to think) is barely noticeable outside of these conditions.


There was another thread that pointed out in argument or debate Ni may shift the framework of the debate in order to be right. Ti cries foul at this because it is very precise about what's being debated. Ti might split hairs to be right though


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## Popinjay

NeedsNewNameNow said:


> There was another thread that pointed out in argument or debate Ni may shift the framework of the debate in order to be right. Ti cries foul at this because it is very precise about what's being debated. Ti might split hairs to be right though


I do this on occasion. I don't like to lose an argument when I *KNOW* I'm right but don't have enough data to back it up, so I'll shift the argument and start throwing around plausible-sounding fallacies in rapid fire succession...this works with everyone except INTJs, INTPs and ISTJs (if they know the subject matter). My ENTP dad will sometimes pick up on it but he's usually gotten distracted by any number of things by then and has lost interest in the debate anyway. ENTJs don't generally let me speak enough to control the argument.

It also, of course, doesn't work online.


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## Coppertony

Popinjay said:


> I do this on occasion. I don't like to lose an argument when I *KNOW* I'm right but don't have enough data to back it up, so I'll shift the argument and start throwing around plausible-sounding fallacies in rapid fire succession...this works with everyone except INTJs, INTPs and ISTJs (if they know the subject matter). My ENTP dad will sometimes pick up on it but he's usually gotten distracted by any number of things by then and has lost interest in the debate anyway. ENTJs don't generally let me speak enough to control the argument.
> 
> It also, of course, doesn't work online.


Wait, are you seriously claiming that ENTPs can't handle fallacies? Because we are like the masters of making nonsense sound sensical . . . 

Personally, I always like to demonstrate how the two sides of an argument are actually mutually inclusive. Abuse the Ne, with a dash of Fe because now everyone is getting along and shitting rainbows. Yay!


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## M1R4G3

Coppertony said:


> sensical


Way to Re-enforce a point while making a point.


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## absentminded

M1R4G3 said:


> Way to Re-enforce a point while making a point.


...and you have no familiarity with the Queen's English. Interesting.


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## M1R4G3

absentminded said:


> ...and you have no familiarity with the Queen's English. Interesting.


I don't want to have to criticize you in two different forums at once :bored:


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## absentminded

M1R4G3 said:


> I don't want to have to criticize you in two different forums at once :bored:


...spelling is drastically different from American Engrish to British Engrish. It's as simple as that.


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## M1R4G3

absentminded said:


> ...spelling is drastically different from American Engrish to British Engrish. It's as simple as that.


<----- Currently losing argument


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## PurpleTree

M1R4G3 said:


> Way to Re-enforce a point while making a point.


Reinforce*

*sensical*: _That makes sense; showing internal logic; sensible._



absentminded said:


> ...and you have no familiarity with the Queen's English. Interesting.





M1R4G3 said:


> I don't want to have to criticize you in two different forums at once :bored:


I can fix that.



absentminded said:


> ...spelling is drastically different from American Engrish to British Engrish. It's as simple as that.


English*



M1R4G3 said:


> <----- Currently losing argument


Ah, dammit. I wasn’t fast enough. *raises fist*


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## absentminded

darkewe said:


> English*


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## PurpleTree

absentminded said:


>


Sometimez.
I haz thiz fuze dat jus breakz wen i c two many typoz.
I jus hav ta korect dem.
ALL DEM.
:angry:


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## absentminded

darkewe said:


> Sometimez.
> I haz thiz fuze dat jus breakz wen i c two many typoz.
> I jus hav ta korect dem.
> ALL DEM.
> :angry:


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## Coppertony

Success.


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## skbulletin

I know this is a old thread, and I am sorry for reviving it, but, it certainly was a fun read on INTP & INTJ's arrogance xD
I laughed every page of it. xD


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## Dark Romantic

NT arrogance can be summed up in four words: "Wow, you're an idiot."


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## Abraxas




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## jeffbobs

Arrogance only goes so far before it turns into awesome


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## L

jeffbobs said:


> Arrogance only goes so far before it turns into awesome
> 
> View attachment 38028












It was between him or a picture of miley cyrus doing the exact same thing... I went with the Prez. lol.


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## jeffbobs

L said:


> It was between him or a picture of miley cyrus doing the exact same thing... I went with the Prez. lol.


The only weakness the prez has is obviously a power ranger.......


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## Abraxas

L said:


> It was between him or a picture of miley cyrus doing the exact same thing... I went with the Prez. lol.


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## L

Abraxas said:


>











How dare you, sir:laughing:


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## Logical Ambivert Feeler

Most NTs are arrogaNT
True story


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## Tess

Whats the big deal about us being arrogant anyway? It's not like we're going to change if people talk about it ;p


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## TrailMix

How we are all assholes:

xNTPs are often viewed as arrogant mostly because of our confidence in our abilities. We accept challenges and will believe we are correct and argue our points until we're blue in the face if we really believe in it, which can be really annoying to other types. And we wont stop till you admit you're wrong 

xNTJs are often viewed as arrogant because they are often very sarcastic and dry and can occasionally become defensive very quickly depending upon the individual. Known for trolling so well, you cant tell whether its a joke or not haha 

The biggest reason we are probably viewed as arrogant is in our ability to disregard feeling for purely intellectual discussion. We can insult each other on a personal level during a discussion and know its just a joke. Other types see that as assholery and do not understand the ability to take emotions and personal judgment and place it to the side. My friends and I will often go into "academic mode" and call eachother out on our stupid ideas and such while outsiders view the discussion as harsh and argumentative, while we view it as good fun and mental sport.


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## Abraxas

TrailMix said:


> How we are all assholes:
> 
> xNTPs are often viewed as arrogant mostly because of our confidence in our abilities. We accept challenges and will believe we are correct and argue our points until we're blue in the face if we really believe in it, which can be really annoying to other types. And we wont stop till you admit you're wrong
> 
> xNTJs are often viewed as arrogant because they are often very sarcastic and dry and can occasionally become defensive very quickly depending upon the individual. Known for trolling so well, you cant tell whether its a joke or not haha
> 
> The biggest reason we are probably viewed as arrogant is in our ability to disregard feeling for purely intellectual discussion. We can insult each other on a personal level during a discussion and know its just a joke. Other types see that as assholery and do not understand the ability to take emotions and personal judgment and place it to the side. My friends and I will often go into "academic mode" and call eachother out on our stupid ideas and such while outsiders view the discussion as harsh and argumentative, while we view it as good fun and mental sport.


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## Ember

PurpleTree said:


> *puffs out chest, raises nose to a 60 degree angle relative to the ground, lowers eyes to stare menacingly downward*
> 
> I will not answer such a pathetically worded question posted by _none other than_ a lowly Ti-dominant accusing _me_ -* ME!*- and my _brethren_ - the _almighty_, _all-foreseeing_* Ni-dominants *- of being arrogant!
> 
> Come back when you develop your better functions!
> 
> *dramatically wheels around and struts away*





PurpleTree said:


> *wheels back around*
> 
> Tree! *Tree?!* I am no tree!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am an Ent.


That was... hilarious.


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## KingFrog

Is this an arrogant contest? 
Because if it is, you guys are doing great!

roud:


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## TrailMix

Abraxas said:


>


Cant tell if I did something wrong >.< haha


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## Perhaps

Abraxas said:


>


This is actually a very good representation of my thought processes while skimming this thread.


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## Pbear

Sanskrit said:


> Uh huh. That's a cool story bro. Generalizations, stereotypes, subjectification and logical fallacies in a post that short. I am impressed.
> I'd say don't let the haters get to you and chill, be true to yourself and stay righteous in your own way.
> However it is almost cute how you eat up all those stereotypes.


While I agree, you must admit there is a kernel of truth in most stereotypes.


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## Abraxas

Pbear said:


> While I agree, you must admit there is a kernel of truth in most stereotypes.


 @Sanskrit,

OBEY HIM.


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## DrSketchpad

Most NT's come off as arrogant, a lot of the time we are, then again a lot of the time we aren't, it generally goes NT to NT.


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## Vermillion

I think INTP arrogance often comes off as friendlier and less hostile than that of an INTJ's because INTJs are Fi users, which means their internal ideals are very important and they would get more frustrated than the INTP when provoked.

The INTP is a Fe user and therefore is likelier to be a better manipulator.


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## Doctor von Science

PurpleTree said:


> *wheels back around*
> 
> Tree! *Tree?!* I am no tree!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am an Ent.


You are my hero.

But in regards to the topic, INTJs (like my best friend) are more of a condescending arrogant and talk down to people they think are beneath them. I've seen him do this many times.

Us INTPs are more of an avoidant arrogant. If we think we're better than someone we just won't talk to them at all, above the minimum requirement (if there is one, such as during some forced social interaction or some such). I've done this many times.


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## nakkinaama

Werent you an INT? Ok, that was bad...xD


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## nakkinaama

Oh shit I suck at replying, im new in this place so everything is complicated to me.


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## olivene

INTJ -"I have done all of the research; you are wrong. Allow me to explain why." 
INTP - "After much thought and a critical analysis wherein I anticipated most, if not all, objections through questioning, please, state your case and allow me to tell you why you are wrong. Because you are. 
Or INTP just ignores/doesn't acknowledge


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## nadjasix

olivene said:


> INTJ -"I have done all of the research; you are wrong. Allow me to explain why."
> INTP - "After much thought and a critical analysis wherein I anticipated most, if not all, objections through questioning, please, state your case and allow me to tell you why you are wrong. Because you are.
> Or INTP just ignores/doesn't acknowledge


I've yet to see an INTP carefully anticipate all objections to a research question. Call me when this happens, I want to see it...


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## Muser

olivene said:


> INTJ -"I have done all of the research; you are wrong. Allow me to explain why."
> INTP - "After much thought and a critical analysis wherein I anticipated most, if not all, objections through questioning, please, state your case and allow me to tell you why you are wrong. Because you are.
> Or INTP just ignores/doesn't acknowledge


Wouldn't it be more like:

INTJ - "This is the way things work. Period. I've done all of the research. You need this logo on your certificate to get this job. Stop reading into it/asking silly questions and realise that these are the facts and this is the best/only/obvious way. Face it.
Now, stage 2."

INTP - "Things don't necessarily work thatway and I don't NEED the logo. That logo only represents something that I actually already obtain. It's not so black and white. _Think _about it and question the reasons. You don't really _understand _the issue.
Now, let's get opinions."


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## 2fast4u2

Arrogant.... I would like that word removed from existence. 

Im arrogant because of your flawed logic.. sounds about right...


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## Mutant Messiah

INTPs need to hang out on message boards, debate on some issues regardless if the topic is trivial. They'll probably argue that the Beatles is the best band ever if they love that band, regardless if it's really that important to argue on such issue. 

INTJs do the same thing on message boards too, but their strong Te has real life concerns, which makes their online presence less active compared to INTPs.


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## 2fast4u2

Mutant Messiah said:


> INTPs need to hang out on message boards, debate on some issues regardless if the topic is trivial. They'll probably argue that the Beatles is the best band ever if they love that band, regardless if it's really that important to argue on such issue.
> 
> INTJs do the same thing on message boards too, but their strong Te has real life concerns, which makes their online presence less active compared to INTPs.


That would never happen, pink floyd trumps the beatles anyday.... Thats kinda what their music was about, almost making fun of the beatles lol.. "have a cigar" for example.... lol


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## LadyO.W.BernieBro

Hm.


Welp.l was actually just talking with an INFP about why we seem arrogant and narrow-minded sometimes.

Basically it's that they expect us to communicate our reasoning with them, after we've already made up our minds, which l never do.

And as l say that l really do actually just sound like an asshole LOL. But lt's just not something l'm inclined to do, and if l did l would suck at it.

Anyway l think INTJs are more likely to clash verbally and IME seem to enjoy debate more. l just don't, l know a lot of INTPs do too. But if someone drags me into an argument l'm likely to verbalize something that makes me sound arrogant, thus rendering my actions to be assigned to the same level of asshole arrogance as the INTJ :shocked:


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## nujabes

LOL @ this thread. 117 replies arguing about who is more arrogant and why.

INTJ's are arrogant because they think subconscious pattern recognition is better than conscious pattern recognition, but it works for them impressively. 

INTP's are arrogant because they think they've covered every possible angle, and usually have.

ENTP's are arrogant because we can see the pattern, realize we see the pattern, and then prove it to you. That's why ENTP's are the best lawyers in the NT cluster.


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## YOLOsodie

If i was being honest I'd say INTJ's seem more arrogant, INTP's tend to go with the flow but they aren't really arrogant unless they are really sure about it, INTP's i know don't really like hogging the limelight they prefer to be behind the scenes.


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## Anonynony

INTJ..... It even looks arrogant with that last little letter :wink:


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## Cetanu

No other types are arrogant except for INTPs and INTJs.

In case you don't realise I am being sarcastic and think anyone that thinks this should commit seppuku.


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