# ITT we air our job-hunting grievances.



## JayDubs (Sep 1, 2009)

huesos said:


> I wonder if there are any introvert-friendly companies I can apply to. Just because someone isn't outgoing or easily excitable doesn't mean they wouldn't be good at a job. In fact, a lot of introverts have jobs.


Consider starting a thread and asking for specific advice. Post things like your experience and qualifications, personality, things you are willing and aren't willing to do, and see what suggestions people have.


----------



## fihe (Aug 30, 2012)

I have another grievance.

I'm reading about interview advice, and some of it is just unrealistic. When asked how I found the job, what's wrong with saying flat out that I found it from an online job board? Why do I need to want to work at that company in particular that I've gone to their website on my own accord to see if they are hiring? Sure, I'll do that for a few companies, but any sensible unemployed person who needs a job is going to go on a job board to see who's hiring, and apply for positions that are a good match for their skills and experience. Most companies I apply to I've never heard of before, but from reading the job descriptions, they sound like jobs I'd be pretty good at.

Of course I believe in making a good impression at an interview, but that doesn't mean kissing up and acting like the entry-level job they have open is the best thing in the world and that I'd do it for free if I could.


----------



## PowerShell (Feb 3, 2013)

huesos said:


> I have another grievance.
> 
> I'm reading about interview advice, and some of it is just unrealistic. When asked how I found the job, what's wrong with saying flat out that I found it from an online job board? Why do I need to want to work at that company in particular that I've gone to their website on my own accord to see if they are hiring? Sure, I'll do that for a few companies, but any sensible unemployed person who needs a job is going to go on a job board to see who's hiring, and apply for positions that are a good match for their skills and experience. Most companies I apply to I've never heard of before, but from reading the job descriptions, they sound like jobs I'd be pretty good at.
> 
> Of course I believe in making a good impression at an interview, but that doesn't mean kissing up and acting like the entry-level job they have open is the best thing in the world and that I'd do it for free if I could.


Have you tried going through a temp agency or a company that contracts out? I got my current job through TekSystems and was a contractor prior to being hired on full time. Then it really doesn't matter on where you found the job because the company found it for you. I know, besides myself, a couple coworkers of mine were hired through TekSystems.


----------



## fihe (Aug 30, 2012)

PowerShell said:


> Have you tried going through a temp agency or a company that contracts out? I got my current job through TekSystems and was a contractor prior to being hired on full time. Then it really doesn't matter on where you found the job because the company found it for you. I know, besides myself, a couple coworkers of mine were hired through TekSystems.


Yes! In fact, for the past year and a half (actually, almost two years now), all but one of my jobs have been through a temp agency. I got a permanent, full-time job through them, but unfortunately, they went out of business a few months ago. Since then, I went back to the agency and have gotten a few assignments, and I'm currently working at one. However, I don't know if they'll be able to find me any temp-to-hire opportunities. I did have an interview through them for a direct hire position, but I didn't get the job. Turns out the job was quite different from what I thought it would be, and I didn't think I had the proper skills and experience for it, even though it was in an industry I've worked in before.


----------



## PowerShell (Feb 3, 2013)

huesos said:


> Yes! In fact, for the past year and a half (actually, almost two years now), all but one of my jobs have been through a temp agency. I got a permanent, full-time job through them, but unfortunately, they went out of business a few months ago. Since then, I went back to the agency and have gotten a few assignments, and I'm currently working at one. However, I don't know if they'll be able to find me any temp-to-hire opportunities. I did have an interview through them for a direct hire position, but I didn't get the job. Turns out the job was quite different from what I thought it would be, and I didn't think I had the proper skills and experience for it, even though it was in an industry I've worked in before.


My original contract was going to be 3 months and done. Then they liked me so much I was hired on full time. I started 2 years ago in May. Just get a temp job and impress them and you never know.


----------



## Old Intern (Nov 20, 2012)

huesos said:


> I have another grievance.
> 
> I'm reading about interview advice, and some of it is just unrealistic. When asked how I found the job, what's wrong with saying flat out that I found it from an online job board? Why do I need to want to work at that company in particular that I've gone to their website on my own accord to see if they are hiring? Sure, I'll do that for a few companies, but any sensible unemployed person who needs a job is going to go on a job board to see who's hiring, and apply for positions that are a good match for their skills and experience. Most companies I apply to I've never heard of before, but from reading the job descriptions, they sound like jobs I'd be pretty good at.
> 
> Of course I believe in making a good impression at an interview, but that doesn't mean kissing up and acting like the entry-level job they have open is the best thing in the world and that I'd do it for free if I could.


If your skills are similar to other people looking at the same job, they have to have a reason to pick you. If you say "I just need a job" or "I'm a fast learner" or "I'm a hard worker" what they hear is something like the ole Peanuts character teacher. Maybe you are too young to remember that one. It amounts to garbled noise.

Sooo, one possibility is to do a little research about the place you are interviewing. Give them a reason to believe you care about THIS job, or else you might just be one more person in the pile of people looking for a job.

Then, again if you are getting interviews, maybe it only takes a little bit more time. Getting to the interview part is a good sign.


----------



## ScientiaOmnisEst (Oct 2, 2013)

Arzazar Szubrasznikarazar said:


> Exactly. Same here.
> 
> We're pretty much at the point where basic income, or at least generous welfare should be there for a long time. It's inhuman and immoral that the decision-makers demand us to "earn" our living when there's such a massive surplus of people willing to work and work itself gradually becomes more and more redundant.
> 
> ...


Whoa dude. Whoa. 

I don't know what's going on in your life, but I can tell you're having a rough time. But still...whoa.

As for myself:


Job hunting is bull. I admit, I'm automatically going to be at the bottom of the pile: college dropout, very little experience, currently unemployed. I'm lucky if anyone even calls me back. Hell, I've been rejected (from the really low, anyone-can-get-a-job-there type places) in a matter of _hours_. But damn. Surely someone's desperate enough, right? 

Apparently there's an actual bias against the currently unemployed. I read some articles about it and it's just ridiculous. Employers like to give preference to those who are currently employed and looking for a change of scene than someone who actually needs the job for practical reasons. How does that even make sense?


Also, sort of inspired from Azazar's post...and embarrassing as it is for me...technological unemployment scares me. Particularly in knowing that fairly soon, the only work that will be available will basically be programming, engineering, and other heavily technical work. I'm not technologically inclined and nothing is going to change that. Tech changes don't bother me too much, I've made some peace with it. It's my own ability. Like I said, no amount of social pressure is going to make me good at math, or have a knack for working with computer hardware. And anything verbal is, unfortunately, also social. And most people take the attitude of "learn technical skills or die in the new era", so...maybe I can see where you're coming from, man.

I keep thinking self-employment might be my best option but what the hell am I supposed to do?



yet another intj said:


> Confidence and giving an energetic impression is a requirement for every job. They want people to make things done like giddy robots, not depressive lost souls to waste their precious budget.


:computer:

If you can do the job, being a goddamn "giddy robot" shouldn't matter. 

Supposedly, that's one of my issues (though, this is according to my mother, who thinks I should put a "Hobbies" section on my resume and talk about how I like to read). I know I'm not perky at all, so I try to pass myself off as calm and serious, someone who will get things done quietly and efficiently but is friendly and amicable. No one seems to buy it though.


----------



## Old Intern (Nov 20, 2012)

@Arzazar Szubrasznikarazar I took a look at your deviant art gallery link. That is a lot of drawing. The quantity and passion alone is remarkable. 

I've recently noticed there must be animation software out there that can be used at a "plug and play" or "point and shoot" level. I'm not saying you need to become an animator, but i wonder if you have ever done something like a craigslist ad to get yourself teamed up with a story teller or video marketer?

Of course that's not to say this would turn into a career (no guarantees), but even if you took a crappy job like dishwasher or whatever, you could still be moving forward into something that leads to something better. It seems like your passion and artwork could be doing more for you than to become a drawing on somebody's wall. It was just a thought. Obviously, what people can use your work for, makes a difference in getting paid well for it.

Many of us are in a spot where we do one thing to keep bills paid (and tread water) while hoping to find something else to move into and get a better life. I've been hearing that economic numbers are getting better but wheels turn slow, everybody dealing with so much change, and differences of opinion about what is next or better.


----------



## Arzazar Szubrasznikarazar (Apr 9, 2015)

ScientiaOmnisEst said:


> Whoa dude. Whoa.
> 
> I don't know what's going on in your life, but I can tell you're having a rough time. But still...whoa.
> 
> ...


When I see all these guides for interview, making impreshuns and all other bullshit, I can't help but feel dissatisfaction and disgust and think: how can these people be so broken?
Why are they just running around in circles in panic trying to convince others to let them live:
"Let me live! Let me live! See, I can do these tricks, let me live!" 
Disgusting weaklings.

Do they have no vision of their own? Do they have no sense of dignity?!

There's no sense of humanity, of loyalty to the species, even to the tribe. All I see is enemies. Everyone outside is an enemy. That's the truth. Enemies engaging in constant fight for who will get hired, who will be allowed to live.
It's absolutely repulsive.

One thing that bewilders me is that weakness. That people allow themselves to be eliminated just like that. That they become dumpster divers, camwhores, that they starve.
What kind of weaklings they are?!
Do they have no Will to fight back, to defeat these enemies, to drive this struggle to its logical conclusion.

How many people fall completely, how many kill themselves or their families? They could have stopped this madness long time ago, but they haven't. Instead they have shown weakness and thanks to them we have inherited this mess. They just lack Moral Clarity.

What is important to always consider is counter-strike capability. When dealing with a hostile world, one needs to be a perfect mirror of it. And when the world says "Die.", say the same. Magnified manifold.


----------



## Redifining Cool (Aug 22, 2014)

huesos said:


> I've applied for dozens of jobs since December, and I've had a few interviews but no offers. I wonder if there's something wrong with me. I guess I don't come off as being particularly confident or high-energy (I'm neither), but those aren't requirements for the jobs I'm applying for, so I don't see why that would be an issue. I also stopped bothering with thank-you notes after interviews a long time ago, since they've never helped me, and the vast majority of the time, I never hear from the company again after the interview either way.
> 
> I THOUGHT WORKPLACES VALUED DIVERSITY! That includes diverse personalities.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk


You should see if you have government agencies that can give interview prep and mock interviews for free. I did that and noticed that others had very negative tones that would turn off interviewers that the person wasn't aware of. 

You might have this, it's not that they need high energy, super excited ENFPs on a sugar high. But if you say stuff with a negative tone that you're not aware of this can doom you.


----------



## ScientiaOmnisEst (Oct 2, 2013)

Arzazar Szubrasznikarazar said:


> When I see all these guides for interview, making impreshuns and all other bullshit, I can't help but feel dissatisfaction and disgust and think: how can these people be so broken?
> Why are they just running around in circles in panic trying to convince others to let them live:
> "Let me live! Let me live! See, I can do these tricks, let me live!"
> Disgusting weaklings.
> ...


Asking as one of the "weakings", how are we supposed to "fight back"?


----------



## Arzazar Szubrasznikarazar (Apr 9, 2015)

ScientiaOmnisEst said:


> Asking as one of the "weakings", how are we supposed to "fight back"?


By increasing cost of leaving people to starve to levels that make this whole idea a very bad business to them. Generally, since what they represent is first political and then economic warfare, the best solution is to escalate the conflict to the next level when one has nothing left to lose.


----------



## Old Intern (Nov 20, 2012)

Arzazar Szubrasznikarazar said:


> When I see all these guides for interview, making impreshuns and all other bullshit, I can't help but feel dissatisfaction and disgust and think: how can these people be so broken?
> Why are they just running around in circles in panic trying to convince others to let them live:
> "Let me live! Let me live! See, I can do these tricks, let me live!"
> Disgusting weaklings.
> ...


Maybe this is a generation gap? Were you brought up to believe you should get a trophy for participation? Nobody should ever hurt your feelings? You should get a pat on the back, and whatever income that meets your needs - just because you breathe?


----------



## ScientiaOmnisEst (Oct 2, 2013)

Old Intern said:


> Maybe this is a generation gap? Were you brought up to believe you should get a trophy for participation? Nobody should ever hurt your feelings? You should get a pat on the back, and whatever income that meets your needs - just because you breathe?


I think I know what you're trying to say here...but I'm also confused. We should have to be fighting and doing tricks (to use AzS's terms) to hopefully be allowed to live....unless one is exceptional enough to make it outside of the system.

I see that attitude every now and then online: that wanting a livable income is somehow a symptom of terrible, spoiled entitlement. I'm just not sure if that's what I should be reading here.


----------



## Arzazar Szubrasznikarazar (Apr 9, 2015)

ScientiaOmnisEst said:


> I think I know what you're trying to say here...but I'm also confused. We should have to be fighting and doing tricks (to use AzS's terms) to hopefully be allowed to live....unless one is exceptional enough to make it outside of the system.
> 
> I see that attitude every now and then online: that wanting a livable income is somehow a symptom of terrible, spoiled entitlement. I'm just not sure if that's what I should be reading here.


Here is a simple explanation of this sick anti-human attitude:


CelebrityTypes said:


> About ENTPs
> 
> Versatile pattern-seekers
> *Strongly linked to the Antisocial personality*
> ...


I generally ignore these kind of people on sight. No point of engaging them or reading anything they write.


----------



## ScientiaOmnisEst (Oct 2, 2013)

Double post but oh well.

Started thinking about the usual job-search tough love people like to give: no one owes you a job, if you have no skills you don't deserve a good income, etc. Maybe it's time to just give up and resign to being a piece of shit dependent for the rest of my life. No one's going to hire me, I have zero good qualities, including lacking the ability to learn new skills on my own (even so, I thought I would put that off until I was working). I thought a while ago that if something isn't owed me, I'll never have it. So I'll never work beyond making pocket change online. 

Unfortunately due to some programs I'm required to do futile job searches every week.


----------



## Old Intern (Nov 20, 2012)

ScientiaOmnisEst said:


> I think I know what you're trying to say here...but I'm also confused. We should have to be fighting and doing tricks (to use AzS's terms) to hopefully be allowed to live....unless one is exceptional enough to make it outside of the system.
> 
> I see that attitude every now and then online: that wanting a livable income is somehow a symptom of terrible, spoiled entitlement. I'm just not sure if that's what I should be reading here.


Well, we may have two different factors here. One is, if a person is finding interview tips from YouTube, might be a good idea to consider the source. Yes, everybody is trying to show how they can "add value" on YouTube and other places on line. So yes, the pace or the antics can seem extreme. But use what seems to fit your situation, or don't.

The attitude that it should be below ones dignity to TRY, to think from the employers perspective of why they might want to hire you instead of someone else - sounds like some little shit needs to learn what it would be like to *actually *beg. If you get a job - Somebody Gave You That Job! Damnit! If it is above you to be grateful - tough shit for you!

@Arzazar Szubrasznikarazar Ignoring people like me might be why you don't have a job.
Wearing an attitude problem on our sleeve are we?


----------



## PowerShell (Feb 3, 2013)

ScientiaOmnisEst said:


> Double post but oh well.
> 
> Started thinking about the usual job-search tough love people like to give: no one owes you a job, if you have no skills you don't deserve a good income, etc. Maybe it's time to just give up and resign to being a piece of shit dependent for the rest of my life. No one's going to hire me, I have zero good qualities, including lacking the ability to learn new skills on my own (even so, I thought I would put that off until I was working). I thought a while ago that if something isn't owed me, I'll never have it. So I'll never work beyond making pocket change online.
> 
> Unfortunately due to some programs I'm required to do futile job searches every week.


See what skills are in demand and then build them. You can build them with volunteering opportunities or even start your own business. There are a bunch of in demand skills you can learn for free. You can use GIMP to learn photo editing. You can use Open of Libre Office to work on word processing and other office skills. Linux can teach you about operating systems if you want to go down that path and it also has a ton of opportunities to learn programming so you can contribute to an open source project. You don't even have to uninstall Windows. You can run Oracle Virtualbox for free and run Linux as a VM. Unless you are using a library computer to post you relies, you currently have all the resources necessary to do this and can do it for free.

There's also a ton of YouTube videos out there and tutorials. I'm sitting her with a broken leg and cannot go anywhere. I am able to work remotely and am working on my MBA class. I still have a decent amount of time to sit here that I'm not sleeping. That's what's keeping me occupied. Right now I'm learning how to automatically map GPS coordinates taken from my Garmin VIRB (Garmin version of the GoPro) so I can overlay them on Google Maps when I make dash cam videos. That definitely keeps me occupied in the meantime (along with the other projects I am doing). More importantly, I am learning valuable skills such as video editing and Google development.


----------



## Old Intern (Nov 20, 2012)

ScientiaOmnisEst said:


> Double post but oh well.
> 
> Started thinking about the usual job-search tough love people like to give: no one owes you a job, if you have no skills you don't deserve a good income, etc. Maybe it's time to just give up and resign to being a piece of shit dependent for the rest of my life. No one's going to hire me, I have zero good qualities, including lacking the ability to learn new skills on my own (even so, I thought I would put that off until I was working). I thought a while ago that if something isn't owed me, I'll never have it. So I'll never work beyond making pocket change online.
> 
> Unfortunately due to some programs I'm required to do futile job searches every week.


You sound like you are discouraged and need to give yourself a break. There must be somebody who knows you, knows your good qualities, to perk you up. You seem, If I remember from other threads, to be a gentile soul who notices what people need or want. Has anybody tried to help you think about what kind of work fits you? Wherever you start is just a starting point, just the terms of that contract. I hope my irritation expressed on another post was not taken to heart, in terms of how people feel.

If you feel discouraged, maybe you can find some way to get the pep talk you need. I mean we feel however we feel and nobody should put anyone down for that. When you feel refreshed, everything looks better and you get better results.
----------
Have you looked into any financial aid programs for a 2year degree? I don't know where you live but many places have a growing healthcare market. Somewhere I saw (advertised) two year degrees for medical technician type jobs. Even being enrolled in something might give you an edge to get in the door somewhere.


----------



## Arzazar Szubrasznikarazar (Apr 9, 2015)

ScientiaOmnisEst said:


> Started thinking about the usual job-search tough love people like to give: no one owes you a job, if you have no skills you don't deserve a good income, etc.


It isn't tough love. It's just malicious meme designed to shift blame from pathological society/culture/ideology to individuals.
Basic fact is that no one needs you because they already have enough of people with your abilities. That's why no one responds to your job applications. If they needed you, they'd hire you without playing any games.
So, basically, they don't need you to work, they don't want you to work and then they decide to punish you for not working. They are just being spiteful for no reason. It's a perversion.


They could have had everyone work less time with 100% employment, etc. Instead they have chosen vicious competition to the bottom when there's less and less opportunities for people who are ordinary, have outdated technical skills, have common technical skills or are gifted in non-technical ways to earn their living, not to mention earning wealth.


For what purpose? To move the wealth to the upper fraction of 1% of society and vastly increase power of that fraction through disempowerment of the rest.


Remember that the same people who create memes about "earning" are pushing for automation and outsourcing so that more and more people in their countries couldn't "earn". The same people who are the source of the talk about how you should have became an engineer are importing Indians to your country to get trained and then move back in to India to work there to replace experienced American engineers and deny jobs to American graduates.


Corrupted ones will often talk about entitlement. They forget to mention cliques of buddies controlling workplaces. How do family businesses operate if not through entitlement? That's how their employers are hired - just for breathing.
The truth is that many low level positions are already filled by a family member or a friend and they still put on a false job offer just in case they will fail completely.
Most of jobs I got were through nepotism or crony-ism. I got only one job through a job offer and when I met the team, one of the first things I heard was that I'm lucky that they had a lot of people have quit at the same time because normally they only hire friends of current workers.
And do you know what friends often involves? Taking drugs and other sorts of other corruption.


The corrupted ones neglect to mention the role of manipulation, of instrumental treatment of human beings in their process of "earning". I went to advertisement school and I had a glimpse of what they are capable of. The whole process of manipulation is formalized and based on scientific research. I have quit on the last semester, because the things they taught there were simply sick. There's something disgusting about using scientific knowledge to manipulate people into buying stuff.


The corrupted ones don't care about systematic solutions, about morality and about people as whole. They only care about "winning". They aren't morally superior at all. "Winning" is their only pseudo-value.
They are the kind of people that would prefer street musicians polluting vicinity with noise and interrupting normal living of people, telemarketers bothering and manipulating people in their houses over people quietly collecting welfare checks. Because "earning" is "better", no matter how scummy it is.
They also love stuff like sex work, dangerous workplaces, sexual abuse of employees, etc.


These people are the worst to hear about morality. They are morally stunted individuals that should be obeying in questions of morality, not dictating.

I find Catholic Church's stance on work quite interesting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laborem_exercens
It addresses most of the problems of the current market. Technology becoming a Moloch that eats people, immigration bringing chaos and poverty, progressing dehumanization.
It also provides a healthy and moral characteristic of work and its relationship to individuals and humanity.




ScientiaOmnisEst said:


> Maybe it's time to just give up and resign to being a piece of shit dependent for the rest of my life. No one's going to hire me, I have zero good qualities, including lacking the ability to learn new skills on my own (even so, I thought I would put that off until I was working). I thought a while ago that if something isn't owed me, I'll never have it. So I'll never work beyond making pocket change online.


Hmm... Don't you have Se? Couldn't you try to learn driving some sort of a machine like a Forklift truck? Should probably be easy for you? Se types tend to be very good at physical stuff, I think? At least if there's a demand?
I wanted to learn driving a forklift truck for some time but playing Forklift Truck Simulator for a few months has sobered me off. I'm horrible with physical environment and after about 15-30 minutes I'd become exhausted or agitated and would end up crashing. Which would have quite awful consequences when driving a multi-ton vehicle in real life.

Also, you could try finding a ESFJ male with a profitable job or something?




ScientiaOmnisEst said:


> Unfortunately due to some programs I'm required to do futile job searches every week.


At least here they stopped pretending. They don't give a fuck because they realise it's futile. When I go to report every few months they just check if there are any IT job offers that fit my qualifications - because they perfectly realise there are next to no chances of getting a nonskilled job (to make things worse most of these require being a young student or disabled because companies dodge social security tax in order to get ahead in race to the bottom competition) The downside is that there are no meaningful assistance besides medical insurance. Which is better than nothing but lack of unemployment benefits and food stamps means either starving or going into debt.


----------

