# Canada or Europe after becoming an RN?



## Blood Rose (Nov 14, 2009)

I was thinking of perhaps moving to either Canada or somewhere in Europe.. probably England, Britain, or Germany after graduating college. The thing is, I know it's extremely expensive to immigrate to Canada at least, and very hard for nurses to get in (and I read that my credentials might not even mean much there!).
I'm also not sure of the requirements for any of my choices for Europe. I thought maybe someone on here might know specifics?


----------



## counterintuitive (Apr 8, 2011)

Ok. I can say a little about immigrating to Canada, but please don't take it as definitive, I could be wrong. As I see it, these are your immigration options:


*Immigrate as a Federal Skilled Worker:*



> For your application to be eligible for processing, you must:
> have a valid offer of arranged employment, OR
> have one year of continuous full-time paid work experience in at least one of the occupations listed here * OR
> be an international student enrolled in a PhD program in Canada (or graduated from a Canadian PhD program within the past 12 months) and meet certain criteria.


(Skilled workers and professionals - Who can apply)

- You could either get this experience in your home country, or...

- try to get a job in Canada straight out of college -- but this would require a Canadian employer to hire you. _Depending on the job_, they would need to show that none of the Canadian citizens or permanent residents who applied were suitable. So it might be difficult for you to get a job in Canada without permanent status. Regardless, if you went this route, you would have the option of getting a work permit, which I think will be faster than immigrating. But after you had the required work experience, you'd still have to apply for permanent residence (immigration). But the work permit route would get you into Canada faster.

- The PhD option is open if you enrol in a Canadian PhD program. In case you're considering that: Studying in Canada


*Marry or enter into a common-law relationship* with a Canadian citizen or permanent resident. Note: I am not advocating a "green card marriage", just saying that if you happened to end up in such a situation for love reasons, your partner would be able to sponsor you. (Sponsoring your family)


*Information on RN Credentials:* Occupation Facts: Registered Nurse



> Becoming a Registered Nurse in Canada
> 
> You must meet the requirements of the provincial or territorial regulatory nursing body. Requirements may differ from one province or territory to another.
> 
> ...



There's also this guide/thing that shows you all your options based on your qualifications: Come to Canada
You may want to answer it as you would if you had graduated, etc. because obviously you're not looking to immigrate right now...and also you are not going to be qualified without work experience.


*This is the general website:* Immigrating to Canada
I would highly recommend browsing around. There are a lot of options, a lot of details, and a lot of words. I may have misinterpreted something/ screwed up, so please double-check things before making decisions or plans!

That's the overview, as far as I can tell. I hope this was helpful.


----------



## Cazza (Sep 3, 2011)

As for the United Kingdom, I know the Government has cut down a lot, on the amount of nurses from abroad, that it will permit to work here (there have been a lot of job cuts, during the recession, in the NHS (National Health Service) - over here, most hospitals are government/NHS run - there aren't many private hospitals, like there are in America...(NHS nurses in England 'fear job losses or downgrades as cuts bite', poll finds | Society | The Guardian)

***************************************
The updated information for 2012 (published in November 2011), can be found on the UK Home Office/Boarder Agency website, here (pdf):

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/s...orkingintheuk/shortageoccupationlistnov11.pdf


Regarding nurses, it says they are currently only accepting applications from:
- *specialist nurses working in operating theatres*
- *specialist nurses working in neonatal intensive care units*
or
- operating department practitioners ('ODPs')



----------------------------------------------
Regarding 'Operating Department Practitioners' (or 'ODPs'), these are not fully trained nurses. They only work in the operating theatre (sorry, theater... UK spelling!), and have to study for 2 years, for a diploma, before registering with the 'Health Professions Council' (HPC), in order to begin working in the UK. 

I was hoping to be able to give you some good news, as I had presumed this would be the equivalent of doing a 2 year US Associate Degree, in Surgical Technology... but, I've just seen on the website for the 'College of Operating Department Practioners' (COAP) that, unfortunately, they don't seem to consider this to be the case: 


******************************
CODP | The College of Operating Department Practitioners

On the FAQ page, it says:

_"Question: I live in the US right now, and have entertained the idea of living in the UK. Would I be qualified to work in the UK?

Answer: Unfortunately you would need to complete the whole ODP programme of study to gain registration with the Health Professions Council, giving you the license to practice in the UK. The qualification is more than surgery and involves anaesthesia and post anaesthetic care. The surgical aspect mainly concentrates on the instrumentation role and only with additional qualification act in the first assistant role. However, you may like to explore the role of a Surgical Care Practitioner (SCP) and to find out more I suggest you contact The National Association of Assistants in Surgical Practice 

Additionally, you may not be eligible to do a programme of study for ODP in the country as they are mainly bursary supported and there are restrictions on who can access this. www.nhsbsa.nhs.uk/students"_
**********************************************************

The bit at the bottom, referring to bursaries, means that if you train to be an operating department practitioner in the, the Government pays for your tuition fees at university... however, you have to be from UK (or, I think now it extends to some European countries... EU/EEC?). However, if you're coming from America, you can't get a bursary for NHS funded courses, including nursing...and I don't think you can even _pay_ to study on an NHS/government funded course anyway (unlike if you're an international student coming over to study other subjects).

You can find more information on ODPS on the NHS careers website, here: 
Operating department practitioner - NHS Careers


***********************************************

Regarding nursing, the 'Royal College of Nursing' (RCN) has information on their website for overseas nurses, re immigration:

FAQs - RCN
&
Immigration advice service - RCN


...but remember, according to the present UK shortage occupation list, the UK government is only granting work permits to either 
- Theatre/Theater nurses 
- or SCBU/NICU nurses (special care baby unit/neonatal intensive care unit)

Perhaps you might be interested specialising in either of these areas of nursing?

* Some more info on neonatal nursing here, from the NHS careers website:
Neonatal Nursing - NHS Careers
****************************************************************

Lastly, until recently, it has been possible for UK nursing students to not have to study for a bachelors degree... it was possible to study for a 3 year UK diploma. However, this is another change the government has introduced... they have been gradually phasing out the nursing diploma courses, so that it will soon only be possible to register as a licensed nurse (with the Nursing & Midwifery Council or NMC) if you have studied for a 3 year UK bachelors degree in nursing. 

Regarding the equivalent level of degree that the NMC will accept, from nurses trained in USA, their website says here:
Trained outside Europe | Nursing and Midwifery Council


_"Please check that your training in your home country matches our requirements. These are that you should have completed a three year full time course or a course totalling 4600 hours at post secondary level leading to registration as a general nurse. At least half of this course, 2,300 hours, must be in clinical or practical training, and at least one third, 1,533 hours, must be theoretical training.

The course must include theoretical and practical instruction in general and specialist medicine, general and specialist surgery, childcare and paediatrics, maternity (obstetric) care, mental health and psychiatry, care of the elderly, community or primary care nursing.

*If you trained in the USA and have an associate in science degree in nursing (ASDN) that was below three full time years in length, you will not meet our requirements for registration. We will consider your application if your programme was three full time years or more, and if you undertook a bachelor of science degree in nursing (BSN).* 

If your application meets our minimum standards, you will have to complete an overseas nursing programme. The programme sets out common entry standards, a compulsory 20-day period of protected learning and, where appropriate, a period of supervised practice. We strongly recommend that you secure your place on a programme before travelling to the UK."_


Their website has a pdf, with more info on page 16, about the Overseas Nursing Programme:
http://www.nmc-uk.org/Documents/Registration/Registration information trained outside Europe.pdf

******************************

I hope the above info might be of some help to you... 

To be completely honest with you, hospitals in UK aren't as good as they used to be... things are going downhill fast. I would prefer a young American girl like yourself to go somewhere a bit 'better' in Europe... according to this news report, Switzerland & Netherlands are good places for nurses:

Greece and England top nurse 'burn out' league table | News | Nursing Times


----------



## Cazza (Sep 3, 2011)

As for the United Kingdom, I know the Government has cut down a lot, on the amount of nurses from abroad, that it will permit to work here (there have been a lot of job cuts, during the recession, in the NHS (National Health Service) - over here, most hospitals are government/NHS run - there aren't many private hospitals, like there are in America...(NHS nurses in England 'fear job losses or downgrades as cuts bite', poll finds | Society | The Guardian)

***************************************
The updated information for 2012 (published in November 2011), can be found on the UK Home Office/Boarder Agency website, here (pdf):

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/s...orkingintheuk/shortageoccupationlistnov11.pdf


Regarding nurses, it says they are currently only accepting applications from:
- *specialist nurses working in operating theatres*
- *specialist nurses working in neonatal intensive care units*
or
- operating department practitioners ('ODPs')



----------------------------------------------
Regarding 'Operating Department Practitioners' (or 'ODPs'), these are not fully trained nurses. They only work in the operating theatre (sorry, theater... UK spelling!), and have to study for 2 years, for a diploma, before registering with the 'Health Professions Council' (HPC), in order to begin working in the UK. 

I was hoping to be able to give you some good news, as I had presumed this would be the equivalent of doing a 2 year US Associate Degree, in Surgical Technology... but, I've just seen on the website for the 'College of Operating Department Practioners' (COAP) that, unfortunately, they don't seem to consider this to be the case :shocked:: 


******************************
CODP | The College of Operating Department Practitioners

On the FAQ page, it says:

_"Question: I live in the US right now, and have entertained the idea of living in the UK. Would I be qualified to work in the UK?

Answer: Unfortunately you would need to complete the whole ODP programme of study to gain registration with the Health Professions Council, giving you the license to practice in the UK. The qualification is more than surgery and involves anaesthesia and post anaesthetic care. The surgical aspect mainly concentrates on the instrumentation role and only with additional qualification act in the first assistant role. However, you may like to explore the role of a Surgical Care Practitioner (SCP) and to find out more I suggest you contact The National Association of Assistants in Surgical Practice 

Additionally, you may not be eligible to do a programme of study for ODP in the country as they are mainly bursary supported and there are restrictions on who can access this. www.nhsbsa.nhs.uk/students"_
**********************************************************

The bit at the bottom, referring to bursaries, means that if you train to be an operating department practitioner in the UK, the Government pays for your tuition fees at university... however, you have to be from UK (or, I think now it extends to some European countries... EU/EEC?). However, if you're coming from America, you can't get a bursary for NHS funded courses, including nursing...and I don't think you can even _pay_ to study on an NHS/government funded course anyway (unlike if you're an international student coming over to study other subjects).

You can find more information on ODPS on the NHS careers website, here: 
Operating department practitioner - NHS Careers


***********************************************

Regarding nursing, the 'Royal College of Nursing' (RCN) has information on their website for overseas nurses, re immigration:

FAQs - RCN
&
Immigration advice service - RCN


...but remember, according to the present UK shortage occupation list, the UK government is only granting work permits to either 
- Theatre/Theater nurses 
- or SCBU/NICU nurses (special care baby unit/neonatal intensive care unit)

Perhaps you might be interested specialising in either of these areas of nursing?

* Some more info on neonatal nursing here, from the NHS careers website:
Neonatal Nursing - NHS Careers
****************************************************************

Lastly, until recently, it has been possible for UK nursing students to not have to study for a bachelors degree... it was possible to study for a 3 year UK diploma. However, this is another change the government has introduced... they have been gradually phasing out the nursing diploma courses, so that it will soon only be possible to register as a licensed nurse (with the Nursing & Midwifery Council or NMC) if you have studied for a 3 year UK bachelors degree in nursing. 

Regarding the equivalent level of degree that the NMC will accept, from nurses trained in USA, their website says here:
Trained outside Europe | Nursing and Midwifery Council


_"Please check that your training in your home country matches our requirements. These are that you should have completed a three year full time course or a course totalling 4600 hours at post secondary level leading to registration as a general nurse. At least half of this course, 2,300 hours, must be in clinical or practical training, and at least one third, 1,533 hours, must be theoretical training.

The course must include theoretical and practical instruction in general and specialist medicine, general and specialist surgery, childcare and paediatrics, maternity (obstetric) care, mental health and psychiatry, care of the elderly, community or primary care nursing.

*If you trained in the USA and have an associate in science degree in nursing (ASDN) that was below three full time years in length, you will not meet our requirements for registration. We will consider your application if your programme was three full time years or more, and if you undertook a bachelor of science degree in nursing (BSN).* 

If your application meets our minimum standards, you will have to complete an overseas nursing programme. The programme sets out common entry standards, a compulsory 20-day period of protected learning and, where appropriate, a period of supervised practice. We strongly recommend that you secure your place on a programme before travelling to the UK."_


Their website has a pdf, with more info on page 16, about the Overseas Nursing Programme:
http://www.nmc-uk.org/Documents/Registration/Registration information trained outside Europe.pdf

******************************

I hope the above info might be of some help to you... 

To be completely honest with you, hospitals in UK aren't as good as they used to be... things are going downhill fast . I would prefer a young American girl like yourself to go somewhere a bit 'better' in Europe :wink:... according to this news report, Switzerland & Netherlands are good places for nurses:

Greece and England top nurse 'burn out' league table | News | Nursing Times


----------

