# How Do Ni Users See Ne Users?



## LadyO.W.BernieBro (Sep 4, 2010)

Just curious. l'll share my own thoughts.

With Ni dominants, my experience has been that we're both aware that we think in a somewhat similar way. l've gotten the impression that Ni often doesn't "trust" Ne. The way many Ni users react to Ne associations leads me to believe that Ni users view the Ne method as faulty or flaky, somehow.

l gather that this probably stems from the concentration and single mindedness involved in Ni. Ne seems "random'' and maybe careless. l'm quite used to an Ni user doubting my Ne displays at first and then growing comfortable with them later.

lt's somewhat annoying for me because l can usually see the way the Ni user is thinking and know that they will accept my seemingly careless observations eventually, so the initial hesitation seems like a waste of time.

l do not think most Ni users realize that we fully understand their process and simply take a different route to get to the same conclusion, so l would say the situation for me has boiled down to the ''l understand you, but you don't understand me'' effect, at least upon first meeting. l've taken the time to earn the "trust" of a select few Ni users lol.


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## Nordom (Oct 12, 2011)

OMG WTF BRO said:


> l do not think most Ni users realize that we fully understand their process and simply take a different route to get to the same conclusion, so l would say the situation for me has boiled down to the ''l understand you, but you don't understand me'' effect, at least upon first meeting. l've taken the time to earn the "trust" of a select few Ni users lol.


That rings true for me too. Ni users do seem skeptical of me if my reasoning isn't concise or seems scattered, when in reality there are too many words and variables for me to explain all my reasoning. Once you make a prediction based on Ne and it proves to be right, it's like you've passed their test and they even start to look for your input.
I can't say I always trust Ni initially though, and am conscious of the need for something to be proven to me in their manner as well. Though if they use Te as well they seem to be able to explain their reasoning better.

Fake edit: There are also times where I am speaking with an Ni user where I get the feeling they believe my train of thought is going to go a certain way and because it goes that way in that instance, it's going to go that way in all instances similar to that, when it isn't the case.


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## LadyO.W.BernieBro (Sep 4, 2010)

Iamtp said:


> That rings true for me too. Ni users do seem skeptical of me if my reasoning isn't concise or seems scattered, when in reality there are too many words and variables for me to explain all my reasoning. Once you make a prediction based on Ne and it proves to be right, it's like you've passed their test and they even start to look for your input.
> I can't say I always trust Ni initially though, and am conscious of the need for something to be proven to me in their manner as well. Though if they use Te as well they seem to be able to explain their reasoning better.
> 
> Fake edit: There are also times where I am speaking with an Ni user where I get the feeling they believe my train of thought is going to go a certain way and because it goes that way in that instance, it's going to go that way in all instances similar to that, when it isn't the case.


Exactly :kitteh:


Also with the fake edit, l've felt like l was being fit into a mold for them to store me in forever as l was speaking. 

Really, l've been able to see the way a particular INTJ's thoughts have shifted based on my actions and it was just really obvious. l don't know if they realize how obvious it is sometimes lol.

Obviously it depends on the person, the INTJs l've known have fortunately still been somewhat flexible in their thoughts.

Sadly, l often lack the motivation to prove myself in these situations and even when l have, l didn't exactly feel like l'd gained anything from it.


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## Bardo (Dec 4, 2012)

Ne users have a lot of mental energy. I struggle to get to the end of a point with Ne users because they make a connection to some other topic or situation. I'm used to BRB not existing for 10 minutes so it can be good to be around an equally insane person that somehow keeps you a bit more grounded, but then they can be all over the place and it gets tiring.

I can get into the sort of conversations with EN-Ps that are so full of fast talking and go on for so long that you end up having to take a break so you don't get fired lol. Then it's like 'The boss has gone - blahblahblahblahblah'

They're fast, from what I think partly is a bunch of 'idea grapes' that their Ne bursts give them which they can then pick off as they go. Is that right?
I've read that Ne gives people multiple ideas but I wonder if it's picking one of many options each time or if Ne users hold on to them all and maybe try to share different ones before they forget. 

Both ENTPs and ENFPs I've found often have really bad problems with one sided conversations. Like it's possible to reach a 95/5% split some of the time, even when you really get something they say and try to join in they cut you off with more stuff. It's like ' No I liked that, stay there', it's sort of like being a target with a face on for word bullets, it's really annoying.
Also when I've come up to EN-Ps and started a conversation they just aren't taking it seriously at all and I think 'Wow, this street really doesn't go two ways.' 

I definitely need to know more Ne people. I honestly feel like a space alien a lot of the time and they make stuff seem normal. I make peoples jaws hit the floor just by mixing odd stuff together when I'm cooking or like a single comment shatters someones brain and kills the conversation.


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## Khiro (Nov 28, 2012)

You guys realise we're never satisfied with our own reasoning either right? Ni essentially believes there's always another valid perspective. We're pretty much on a never-ending, utterly infuriating hunt for a truth that can never truly be conclusively and satisfactorily verified. We always understand, we're just never convinced. 

As for me, Ne is great when it's Dom. Ideas for their own sake can be fascinating. When Ne is Aux it _can_ drive me insane. Throwing a million different half-considered factors at me to prove a point I more likely don't care about than don't believe really just makes me want to shoot you.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

I actually feel what the OP is describing isn't Ni as much as it is in fact Si. It's mostly Si that seeks conceptual stability and might have troubles understanding the scatter-mindedness of Ne types since Si wants to inherently see the world as stable.


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## Christie42476 (May 25, 2012)

OMG WTF BRO said:


> With Ni dominants, my experience has been that we're both aware that we think in a somewhat similar way. l've gotten the impression that Ni often doesn't "trust" Ne. The way many Ni users react to Ne associations leads me to believe that Ni users view the Ne method as faulty or flaky, somehow.


This isn't true for me at all. I find a great deal of value in the associations and connections made by people who use Ne, so much so that I actively seek their input and insight on matters. I do find, however, that some of them at times mistake my questioning for disagreement or skepticism or even criticism when, in actuality, that's just my process for exploring and analyzing their ideas and observations and then maybe taking them in other directions I find interesting or useful. Whatever my brain decides to do with their input, it always factors it into my own process rather than simply discarding it as irrelevant or worthless.



OMG WTF BRO said:


> l gather that this probably stems from the concentration and single mindedness involved in Ni. Ne seems "random'' and maybe careless. l'm quite used to an Ni user doubting my Ne displays at first and then growing comfortable with them later.


Not speaking for anyone else here because I have no doubt there are those who mistrust your insights -- something I experience as well -- but, again, this isn't true for my interactions with Ne users. Like I said above, questioning doesn't equal doubting for me. Questioning is how I absorb and analyze the information. It's me going to the source for deeper insights and more specificity to try to ensure that I truly do understand their point and am not projecting my own line of thought onto theirs. I can't say I end up agreeing with everything a Ne user puts out there (anymore than I universally agree with everything anybody of any type puts out there), but I never discount any idea or conclusion simply because of the cognitive function used to arrive at it.



OMG WTF BRO said:


> lt's somewhat annoying for me because l can usually see the way the Ni user is thinking and know that they will accept my seemingly careless observations eventually, so the initial hesitation seems like a waste of time.


That initial hesitation is likely just them processing what you're saying and filtering it through their own functions rather than simply accepting your observations without analysis. It would actually annoy me if people didn't hesitate to accept my observations because I'd be thinking "Jeez, are you that weak-minded that you just accept what other people say without question?" So, I can't really relate to you on this point. 



OMG WTF BRO said:


> l do not think most Ni users realize that we fully understand their process and simply take a different route to get to the same conclusion, so l would say the situation for me has boiled down to the ''l understand you, but you don't understand me'' effect, at least upon first meeting. l've taken the time to earn the "trust" of a select few Ni users lol.


I actually feel the same way about Ne users, generally speaking. The ones of my close acquaintance often think they understand my process and way of thinking when they don't. The trouble is, I often struggle to organize and articulate my thinking because there are too many connections being made too quickly that I'm trying to pare down to one cohesive train of thought _while _I'm conversing, which leads to my inability to accurately convey my point in terms they can accept as valid. Ultimately, I get frustrated and disheartened and just give up, letting them believe they "got" it when they didn't so they'll just abandon the subject, which is why they often think they understand when they don't. 

It's only later, when I hear some piece of insight or advice they offered about me that was completely and utterly wrong that I realize how badly I mucked up the conversation that led to their erroneous perspective. The fault for that is mine, and one of the reasons why I think I'm attracted to Ne users is I'm trying to hone my ability to organize and then articulate my thinking better when talking with them. Given time to put my ideas and points into formal writing, I excel at it, but when trying to do it during a live conversation or, to a lesser extent, in an email (where I tend to feel rushed even though I'm not), I struggle quite a bit. 

Sometimes, it'll be days or even weeks later when I'll have a "eureka" moment and realize exactly how I should have worded it, but by then, it feels too late and I just let it lie.



Iamtp said:


> That rings true for me too. Ni users do seem skeptical of me if my reasoning isn't concise or seems scattered, when in reality there are too many words and variables for me to explain all my reasoning. Once you make a prediction based on Ne and it proves to be right, it's like you've passed their test and they even start to look for your input.
> I can't say I always trust Ni initially though, and am conscious of the need for something to be proven to me in their manner as well. Though if they use Te as well they seem to be able to explain their reasoning better.
> 
> Fake edit: There are also times where I am speaking with an Ni user where I get the feeling they believe my train of thought is going to go a certain way and because it goes that way in that instance, it's going to go that way in all instances similar to that, when it isn't the case.


Most of what I would offer here is included above, but as for the Fake Edit part, I feel the same way when interacting with various other types, including fellow Ni-doms as well as heavy Ne users. I'd imagine it's a common feeling among intuitives, regardless of whether or not it's always well-founded.

As for the question posed in the title, I see people with strong Ne as having "unrestrained" minds, capable of leaping outside of conventional mental boundaries to make interesting and sometimes startling connections and insights that are always worthy of consideration and often worthy of much deeper and closer scrutiny. In my personal life, the best advice I receive is usually (though not exclusively) from people who I suspect of having strong Ne.

Interestingly enough, my taking the time and energy to process someone's ideas and then question them about it is actually a compliment. It means I found value in what they had to say, making it worthy of that time and energy that I could be expending elsewhere.


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## LadyO.W.BernieBro (Sep 4, 2010)

LeaT said:


> I actually feel what the OP is describing isn't Ni as much as it is in fact Si. It's mostly Si that seeks conceptual stability and might have troubles understanding the scatter-mindedness of Ne types since Si wants to inherently see the world as stable.


Before l knew much about MBTI l knew one confirmed INTJ (well, he tested as INTJ anyway) and l went back and forth with how similar he was to me. Later when l got into MBTI, l saw how similar he was to Si in some ways.

l had to spend a lot of time with him to understand how much we really had in common and ultimately l saw that we had more similarities than differences in terms of our perception that l probably wouldn't have with an ISTJ (but l can't say that for sure). 

l think he was a naturally skeptical person and would have been no matter what his type was, l've since talked with INTJs that have quite the range and some who are between Ne and Ni.


However, since getting into MBTI l have noticed that many INTJs at least outwardly seem to be like something in between the S/N divide and sometimes the similarities between Si and Ni users are mentioned here.

So again, it definitely varies. My experience with INFJs is limited but l didn't really want to single out INTJs in the OP when l talked about dominant Ni and l wonder about ENxJ's too.


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## I Kant (Jan 19, 2013)

I view ENTPs as fun and easy to talk to in terms of nerdy stuff and quickly and accurately navigating abstract concepts.

I view ENFPs as spirited and fun to watch.

I view INTPs as struggling with themselves somewhat as how to deal with other people on a moral/relational level, or perhaps a sincere and honest responsibility level, at least for the immature ones.

I view INFPs as a pleasant wonder as to how they manage to survive in a world I would otherwise consider quite unforgiving and difficult.

I view ESFJs as admirable in terms of efforts to live their values and beliefs, and to consider others.

I view ESTJs as people I probably won't be able to talk to easily, but who nonetheless serve a valuable general purpose.

I view ISFJs with confusion as to if their lives are really that taken for granted by others, in which case I would tend to pity them, or if their focus just leads them to be less resourceful than others, in which case I would tend to pity them, but at the same time wish to watch and learn from them in terms of endurance.

I view ISTJs as the successful everyman who everyone else is measured against, but who stories tend to keep making them the narrow perspectived next-door villains, which I consider to be less than fair since the favor isn't returned to the story teller on ISTJ terms.


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## Jewl (Feb 28, 2012)

I can't tell you how many Ni-doms I've truly met outside of the internet. In fact, those with dominant Intuition appear to be incredibly hard to find. At least in my experiences. 

I actually find there's a large similarity between Ni-doms and I. But it's odd. Their thought process is focused on an entirely different plane of existence. They look at things so differently than I do. For me, the world and it's millions of possibilities are my playground. For them, they look through the lens of their own mind and gaze inwards. They play with systems and meanings internally is the best way I can describe it. It doesn't make sense to me to do that, but it's fascinating just the same. 

I find I get along with them just fine. If I might say it, @Bardo, not all Ne-doms talk like that. I mean, that just sounds like some seriously Extroverted enthusiast. It sounds like your problem is that of mainly that of temperament (as in, apparently all the Ne-doms you've met have been overly-talkative). For me, I know that when I'm talking with somebody I never want the conversation to be just me spouting a bunch of random ideas. First of all because I think doing so would be incredibly rude. Second of all because I always want to hear what somebody has to say. And I want to give them time to think and process as long as they need. I know that there are many other Ne-doms out there who feel the same way. So either you've met some really weird Ne-doms or my perception of reality is extremely flawed (always a possibility, I suppose ). 

Maybe it's because I've grown up in a household where I've had to learn to be silent. I've been taught how to listen. So perhaps it's a cultural thing as well. 

Also, a weird misconception of Ne is that it's just totally random. It's like the Random Function. Somebody says, "Dog," and it's Ne that takes that and thinks, "Hamburger," or something really off the wall. There is that aspect of randomness. I associate everything with something else. 

But it's not without reason. When I'm really pondering an idea, it's not all wild and all over the place. I give it some thought. For example, sometimes I'll wonder about Time. How is it to be defined? And as I think about Time and how it's undefinable (is it an effect? An illusion? An entirely different dimension?), my thoughts expand and perhaps I'll think, "I wonder how different personalities perceive Time?" You're right -- my mind does want to expand. It wants to relate what I'm thinking about to some other concept. But if I am focusing, it doesn't go way out of hand. 

Is your thought process similar?


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## Bardo (Dec 4, 2012)

Julia Bell said:


> If I might say it, @_Bardo_, not all Ne-doms talk like that.


Yes, I know and have met very cool collected Ne doms, one of which I actually thought was introverted at first. Half the ones I'm related to however are more along the lines of LOL WHAT ARE OTHER PEOPLE TALKING FOR, ABSURD. I have a couple of other Ne dom friends and while they can hog a conversation with energy bursts they don't do it all the time.



Julia Bell said:


> When I'm really pondering an idea, it's not all wild and all over the place. I give it some thought. For example, sometimes I'll wonder about Time. How is it to be defined? And as I think about Time and how it's undefinable (is it an effect? An illusion? An entirely different dimension?), my thoughts expand and perhaps I'll think, "I wonder how different personalities perceive Time?" You're right -- my mind does want to expand. It wants to relate what I'm thinking about to some other concept. But if I am focusing, it doesn't go way out of hand.
> 
> Is your thought process similar?


Similar in a way. 
My thought process is more every brain area at once, slowly, and basically always out of hand. The J is extroverted, my brain will run away with itself internally for a long time sorting through it's own mess in order to create outer order. 

Synesthesia is a term that fits well, but in an information based context. You have a task, mathematical for instance. The piece of the brain that handles images is working just as hard as the bit that's supposed to be good at maths, so is every other part. It's a consistent mess lol. 

I might think of sounds as colors for example, loud ones being red, quiet ones being light blue. In this way I would think of a complicated piece of music as a simple series of stripes which would help me keep it in a 'grip', then I'd remember it more easy or find changing it's whole structure to be relatively simple, because it's like mentally just doodling on my colored picture.

Although I'm explaining this saying 'series of colored stripes' I am not necessarily doing that. I might just have have an unexplainable grasp of the piece of music, but to then actually explain what I'm doing I would use the analogy.

I've often predicted dramatic events or trends in people relationships long before they happen. To describe how I know I might have to say - Johns stoicism is the ice cube, emilys attention seeking boiling water. The cube will crack and the water will then be robbed of it's poorly managed energy- again not because I actually physically saw that, I just might have.










Sometimes, especially if I'm stoned, I perceive things like this pic and actually visualize it that way too. The orbs could represent thoughts, people, objects or D) all of the above. I filter down complication and expand simple things into their value in the ultimate scheme of things. I can get stuck in a tangled web for a long time, sometimes it all aligns perfectly like the hands of a clock all on 12.

IMO INTJs are much more consistent. The efficiency of Te, it's streamlining influence, means they get more done tangibly but they don't take thought processes through the same psychedelic washing machine adventure. I'm a 5 as well which probably makes things much worse lol.


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## LadyO.W.BernieBro (Sep 4, 2010)

Bardo said:


> Yes, I know and have met very cool collected Ne doms, one of which I actually thought was introverted at first. Half the ones I'm related to however are more along the lines of LOL WHAT ARE OTHER PEOPLE TALKING FOR, ABSURD. I have a couple of other Ne dom friends and while they can hog a conversation with energy bursts they don't do it all the time.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


l can relate to something like "mental" synesthetia (cross contextual thinking gone off the deep end, maybe) but l don't get to the point where l form solid representations like that. There's only a "feeling" of things being interconnected and l can have a vague idea or some vague imagery of how they might be.

You sound a lot like my old INTJ, actually. Sometimes he would say things that only made sense to him and it would take him a minute to explain. He also got "trippy'' much more easily than l do lol, l think Ni is more adept at making what seem like more direct associations in the form of representations, possibly because it's more "concentrated'' than Ne.

l've known a few Ne doms like what you're talking about. My experience has been that sometimes when an Ne dom hangs around a lo of obnoxious people, it rubs off on them. l've been more obnoxious than l'd care to admit at certain (brief) periods in my life.


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## princessJAY (May 25, 2011)

You would only find me blasting off full-Ne style when I am extremely mentally excited. Ne extroversion gets energy from stimulating _ideas_. Therefore, those who get to see this side of me is given as big a compliment as those receiving Ni-style interrogation.

It means the topics being discussed, the person with whom I am discussing them, are triggering such massive overload of fascinating connections that my mouth /typing have difficulty keeping up. My energy amps way up, I become wittier, focused, and way more intense.

My experience with Ni-dom is the energy-exchange is mutual. When we click, we feed off each other, and time becomes nonexistent.

Mind-sex indeed.


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## DAPHNE XO (Jan 16, 2012)

Interesting.
I haven't fully read all the replies but Ne-doms are an interesting bunch. It's not that I don't "trust" Ne ideas, it's just they really, really annoy me how they consider things I would deem obviously not true for the sake of "trying to keep an open mind" as according to @_alienambassador_... This does depend on the context though... Sometimes I like the random ideas, gives me something to think about.

Sometimes, it puts me in quite a tricky position because I know I should keep an open mind, and I know why I should, I just really, really, really hate doing it. When I hear some of Ne's random ideas, once in a while something will just automatically trigger my "Lol... No." detector and if they keep going on about it, I will get really bovvvard. And then I get even more mad when I can't properly explain _why_ that line of reasoning should be thrown out the window as it's not worth discussing.

I think, the thing about it that annoys me is it complicates my world. If I have to consider so much information all the time, I won't be able to really think "_deeply"_ about things. It's much easier to come to useful "insights" if I limit the number of variables I'm working with.

Doesn't irk me as much anymore, I guess I've just come to accept it because I have to do it a lot at uni so I can see the relative merits of being so open even if I don't necessarily want to for simplicity's sake.

I still actively filter out a lot of information though, there's just so much to deal with half the time. Even with INTP's.

I've found INFP's are much easier to deal with with their Ne, maybe because we both speak feels, I don't know.

edit: @ alien, getting the format of the mention right was way too much effort than it was worth. you suck ballz.


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## alienambassador (Mar 20, 2013)

JungleDisco said:


> edit: @ alien, getting the format of the mention right was way too much effort than it was worth.* you suck ballz.*


I like you too, sweetheart. :tongue:


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## DAPHNE XO (Jan 16, 2012)

alienambassador said:


> I LOVE you too, sweetheart. :tongue:


FTFY

And in reply: Lol jump off a cliff.


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## alienambassador (Mar 20, 2013)

JungleDisco said:


> FTFY
> 
> And in reply: Lol jump off a cliff.


Why did you change my words @JungleDisco?


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## DAPHNE XO (Jan 16, 2012)

alienambassador said:


> Why did you change my words @_JungleDisco_?


I was reading in between the lines


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

I've mostly experienced overload with one or two immature Ne doms who haven't honed their mental prowess and hence have no Ji/Je backing it or lack maturity in Ne proper, people in an Ne paranoia swirl, or Ne dominants pushing their inferior Si. Or when I myself want to chill and think about what I'm hearing and I can't get the person to stop, but that can happen with anyone, not just an Ne dominant. Otherwise, I often enjoy interactions with Ne doms/strong users - they come up with interesting ideas I miss, and sometimes it really strikes a chord. Thinkery flies.


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## alienambassador (Mar 20, 2013)

JungleDisco said:


> I was reading in between the lines


There was only one line so, it would have been impossible to do that.


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