# ESTP vs ESFP challenge!!!



## BurningIce

@Fat Bozo: :kitteh:


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## BurningIce

ENTP (Ti user): if I change the "fresh paint" tag on that bench with a "relax here" tag it's gonna be hilarious *changes the tag*

ENFP (Fi user): *runs after the ENTP with a glittery rainbow broom and weird white stripes on her back* Why the hell do you have to be so eviiiiiiiiiil?!?!


Yep... pretty much


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## Swordsman of Mana

monemi said:


> I don't agree. We're very loyal and protective. I'd say the difference is ESTP's tend to be more aggressive. We might not always tell someone in words that we care. Actions speak louder than words. I show people how I feel about them. We're also are good under pressure. I prefer high pressure/stress environments.
> Not sure if it's MBTI type or just me, I'm physically protective of people. I admit, I've watched verbal bullying and it didn't phase me. But watching someone being shoved around and magically my butt has left my seat and I'll get involved even when I'm 5'9" and 135lbs and they're a man over 6' and and have 60lbs on me. I can't watch people get physically hurt. It's like nails on chalkboard, I* have* to do something even if I think I'm a dumbass for it. I think ESTP are just naturally more aggressive than ESFP.


I think that, while ESFPs can be just as aggressive, ESTPs are more predatory. they pick people apart and can more easily smell their weaknesses and inconsistencies.


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## Kayleigh

Fat Bozo said:


> Nah, it's waaaaay different. "Fi" is just short for ooey gooey warmy cuddly wuddly fluffy bunnies. "Ti" is short for "bizarre convoluted confusion but usually good at video games."
> 
> 
> Whaaaaa?



LOL!! Awesome explanation.


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## BurningIce

Wooooh *.* Hi @Swordsman of Mana


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## Swordsman of Mana

Kore said:


> Wooooh *.* Hi @Swordsman of Mana


how do you do :wink:


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## BurningIce

Swordsman of Mana said:


> how do you do :wink:


Happy! :kitteh:

I may be happier if I could ask you a few questions about that 3 in your signature lol but then I would end up derailing the thread and it doesn't sound a pretty thing to do given the reason why I opened it in the first place :kitteh:

Do you mind if I send a pm in a few hours? (4:04 in the morning doesn't sound like a good time to ask questions making sense xD )


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## Swordsman of Mana

Kore said:


> Happy! :kitteh:
> I may be happier if I could ask you a few questions about that 3 in your signature lol but then I would end up derailing the thread and it doesn't sound a pretty thing to do given the reason why I opened it in the first place :kitteh:
> Do you mind if I send a pm in a few hours? (4:04 in the morning doesn't sound like a good time to ask questions making sense xD )


not at all. hit me up =)


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## BurningIce

Swordsman of Mana said:


> not at all. hit me up =)


Thankieeees!!! :kitteh: 

See ya later then :kitteh:


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## monemi

Swordsman of Mana said:


> I think that, while ESFPs can be just as aggressive, ESTPs are more predatory. they pick people apart and can more easily smell their weaknesses and inconsistencies.


Maybe. I think I'd need to hear from more ESTP's to draw conclusions. 

I have noticed in previous discussions I pick up on some odd things. I pay attention to peoples walks. I notice small limps, swagger, strolls and saunters. I notice in turned toes with soft timid steps, aggressive/rigid or predatory. I watch for threats in posture and body language. Is that predatory or many years of martial arts training? 

When I was a kid, I enjoyed orienteering. Finding my way in the woods in a race. I enjoyed sneaking up in people in the woods or on gravel. I later tried paintball shooting. I enjoyed games where we got to hunt opponents. I'm in Canada now and I get to hunt animals. I suppose IRL, I tend on the predatory side. I don't know if I find weakness or inconsistencies anymore than other people do. I don't like to think of myself as a predator but I don't know that it's entirely untrue.


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## Swordsman of Mana

monemi said:


> Maybe. I think I'd need to hear from more ESTP's to draw conclusions.
> I have noticed in previous discussions I pick up on some odd things. I pay attention to peoples walks. I notice small limps, swagger, strolls and saunters. I notice in turned toes with soft timid steps, aggressive/rigid or predatory. I watch for threats in posture and body language. Is that predatory or many years of martial arts training?
> When I was a kid, I enjoyed orienteering. Finding my way in the woods in a race. I enjoyed sneaking up in people in the woods or on gravel. I later tried paintball shooting. I enjoyed games where we got to hunt opponents. I'm in Canada now and I get to hunt animals. I suppose IRL, I tend on the predatory side. I don't know if I find weakness or inconsistencies anymore than other people do. I don't like to think of myself as a predator but I don't know that it's entirely untrue.


^yup, this sounds pretty damn predatory. no doubt it was enhanced by training and life experience, but this is exactly what I'm talking about. when I'm around an ESTP, I can feel my guard go up. like, if I show any weakness, they will pick up on it immediately and give me hell for it. their Ti/Fe aggression is a lot more subtle than the Fi/Te aggression of an ENFP or ESFP, almost like it's a game to them, so they're often surprised when one of their attacks provokes a more serious attack in response. 

for example, one ESTP I knew pushed me over when I was doing a goofy pose, so I got up, slapped the shit of of him and calmly replied "don't do that again". in his mind, it was just a playful way of showing me that my stance was weak, so he was surprised by my response. Ti/Fe users (specifically ExTPs) like to give each other a hard time in a friendly competitive sort of way, but, typically, Fi users take it personally if you exploit their vulnerabilities and often view it as disrespectful. of course, other factors were at work here too. he was a 7w8 and an Se dom, both of which tend to prefer playing rough; I am an ENFP 7w6, so I dislike being forcefully touched.


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## monemi

Swordsman of Mana said:


> ^yup, this sounds pretty damn predatory. no doubt it was enhanced by training and life experience, but this is exactly what I'm talking about. when I'm around an ESTP, I can feel my guard go up. like, if I show any weakness, they will pick up on it immediately and give me hell for it. their Ti/Fe aggression is a lot more subtle than the Fi/Te aggression of an ENFP or ESFP, almost like it's a game to them, so they're often surprised when one of their attacks provokes a more serious attack in response.
> 
> for example, one ESTP I knew pushed me over when I was doing a goofy pose, so I got up, slapped the shit of of him and calmly replied "don't do that again". in his mind, it was just a playful way of showing me that my stance was weak, so he was surprised by my response. Ti/Fe users (specifically ExTPs) like to give each other a hard time in a friendly competitive sort of way, but, typically, Fi users take it personally if you exploit their vulnerabilities and often view it as disrespectful. of course, other factors were at work here too. he was a 7w8 and an Se dom, both of which tend to prefer playing rough; I am an ENFP 7w6, so I dislike being forcefully touched.


It's not hard to get us to stop though. Say the word and it stops. We're not dicks. 

I learn best from experience. My most valuable lessons come from bad experiences. I come to appreciate them, maybe not immediately, but later on. I don't want anyone using kiddy gloves with me, because that's how I grow. Through experience.


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## Swordsman of Mana

monemi said:


> It's not hard to get us to stop though. Say the word and it stops. We're not dicks.


I'm gonna have to disagree here, but this is also E type related. 
7w6 ESTPs are typically more considerate and, while they may like to ruffle your feathers a bit, they're generally nice and will stop if they feel they are bothering you. on the other hand, 7w8 and 8w7 ESTPs have a more "playful sadism" quality to them (in varying degrees) and will probably do it more if they see it's bothering you. a good example of this kind of behavior is the show Jack Ass or a moderately painful college/summer camp prank that other people think is funny. so yes, ESTP 7w8s and 8w7s can be _extreme_ dicks.


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## Fat Bozo

Kayleigh said:


> LOL!! Awesome explanation.


Thanks. You have an awesome name. roud:


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## Kayleigh

Fat Bozo said:


> Thanks. You have an awesome name. roud:


Thanks! My parents named me after the insanely cheesy 80s song.


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## Fat Bozo

Kayleigh said:


> Thanks! My parents named me after the insanely cheesy 80s song.


Cool. I love 80s songs, and I don't remember hearing this one before.

But I love the spelling, it's like cute and sophisticated at the same time.


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## Choice

@_Swordsman of Mana_

Hey, I think it'd really depend on their sense of morals, and how much they like you / know you?

I believe that most of the time it's not sadism, and more a lack of attention given over to empathy, or purely noticing. It generally means that you have to know your feelings really well, and explicitly spell out what's ok and what's not ok. But then people have delayed emotions so the whole being invaded thing is probably bound to happen (yeah I've had a dose of my own medicine from time to time).



Swordsman of Mana said:


> 7w8 and 8w7 ESTPs have a more "playful sadism" quality to them (in varying degrees) and will probably do it more if they see it's bothering you.


I'm sorry that you had bad experiences, but seriously, if I *liked someone enough* and *they were nice to me* as well, I'd never bully them that way - especially if they wear their fucking sensitivity on their sleeves, in which case I often start rolling over trying to be considerate. 

Idk about others - but if you make me feel protective of you in some way, define your boundaries really well (as in telling me - don't do x because y, or give a very visceral response. Just me having a feeling that I'm bothering you may not register with me sometimes), and given that I don't see you as controlling, or as someone in a position holding a lot of power over me, I'll never drive anything into your soft spots (any that I'm aware of), I promise.



> like, if I show any weakness, they will pick up on it immediately and give me hell for it.


This is raising multiple alarms in my head. I don't know what you define as weaknesses, but whatever 7w8 or 8w7 around you who will quite literally yell at or otherwise abuse you within 5 real world seconds of you displaying those are way more focused on you than they should be / do not understand you well enough / may possibly be mentally ill.

I don't get the Se being predatory thing, since in my experience it's been the intuitives or people with strong Fi/Fe who're better at reading people accurately, but maybe I'm just too socially retarded to tell.


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## Swordsman of Mana

Choice said:


> @_Swordsman of Mana_
> Hey, I think it'd really depend on their sense of morals, and how much they like you / know you?
> I believe that most of the time it's not sadism, and more a lack of attention given over to empathy, or purely noticing. It generally means that you have to know your feelings really well, and explicitly spell out what's ok and what's not ok. But then people have delayed emotions so the whole being invaded thing is probably bound to happen (yeah I've had a dose of my own medicine from time to time).
> I'm sorry that you had bad experiences, but seriously, if I *liked someone enough* and *they were nice to me* as well, I'd never bully them that way - especially if they wear their fucking sensitivity on their sleeves, I start rolling over trying to be considerate.
> Idk about others - but if you make me feel protective of you in some way, define your boundaries really well (as in telling me - don't do x because y, or give a very visceral response. Just me having a feeling that I'm bothering you may not register with me sometimes), and given that I don't see you as controlling, or as someone in a position holding a lot of power over me, I'll never drive anything into your soft spots (any that I'm aware of), I promise.
> This is raising multiple alarms in my head. I don't know what you define as weaknesses, but whatever 7w8 or 8w7 around you who will quite literally yell at or otherwise abuse you within 5 real world seconds of you displaying those are way more focused on you than they should be / do not understand you well enough / may possibly be mentally ill.


then you are an unusually considerate 7w8. rest assured, what I'm talking about is indeed sadism, and a form common in 7w8s and 8w7s, especially if ExTP. 



> I don't get the Se being predatory thing, since in my experience it's been the intuitives or people with strong Fi/Fe who're better at reading people accurately, but maybe I'm just too socially retarded to tell.


Se is predatory in conjunction with Ti/Fe because, unlike ENTPs (and other Intuitives in general), it's physical in nature.


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## monemi

Swordsman of Mana said:


> then you are an unusually considerate 7w8. rest assured, what I'm talking about is indeed sadism, and a form common in 7w8s and 8w7s, especially if ExTP.
> 
> 
> Se is predatory in conjunction with Ti/Fe because, unlike ENTPs (and other Intuitives in general), it's physical in nature.


I've tested 7w6 and 7w8. I go with 7w6 because I like the description better. I'm not sure which one is closer to the truth. I think how predatory a person is down to their morals. Just because you see an opening to take advantage of people, doesn't mean that you should. I see it more as a way to protect myself and people I care about. 

Myself and husband were walking home from the bar downtown. We left the entertainment district and the crowd disappeared. A guy walked behind us wearing a silly mask. I saw an alley without much space to go around it beside the small sidewalk and the street. Looked like a great spot to mug someone. Could have a friend waiting there and isolate victims. Even if they screamed for help, it would rebound across so many walls, who'd know which way they were coming from? I pulled my husbands sleeve and jerked us to one side, made eye contact with the guy in the mask walking behind us, smiled and let him by. Waited a minute and then crossed the street. I don't know or care if the mask was from some party or not. I can't read his face and the situation didn't pass the sniff test. Maybe I totally over reacted. I'm told I'm paranoid. But I know this is the sort of situation I'd imagine setting up if I was going to mug someone.

I don't think the combination makes ESTP's 7w8 or 8w7 predators. It's just those doors stand wide open for us to see. Individuals have to make a choice between right or wrong. There's no need to take a fatalistic look at it. Everyone has choices to make. ESTP's are adaptable and resourceful and see opportunities everywhere. We require internal moral codes. Our morals might not always align with ESTJ morals, but we have a code of ethics and stay with in them.


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## BurningIce

What is the "don't" top ten to be around an ESTP then? :kitteh:


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