# Ask an Enneagram Type



## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

Alright guys, you can go ahead and pose questions to different types about their experiences with being Type X. Or any other questions you may have that are type relevant. This might help dispel some stereotyping, and encourage some dialogue and improved understanding about other types. 

*If you're responding from the standpoint of having a strong fix as opposed to core, please specify in your answer.*

I will start with a few of my own questions:

*Type 1 :

*1. What are some of your most important values? How do you feel when you go against your moral standards or personal integrity?

2. Describe your relationship with anger. How do you express it? Are there situations where you don't experience guilt after expressing your anger? 

3. What does power mean to you?*

Type 3:
*
1. In what ways does self-deceit manifest for you? Do you ever feel like a fraud or con artist?

2. What forms of validation do you seek? *

Type 6:*

1. We keep hearing about the ominous 6 mistrust. What does it take for you to trust someone? What does it take for someone to lose your trust? And really, how 'suspicious' are you? 

2. What does support mean to you? How do you go about acquiring it, if at all?
*
Type 7:
*
1. What is the toughest, most painful part of being a 7? (got ya! lol)

2. Introverted 7s: How do you seek stimulation? How do you avoid boredom?

These are all I have for now! I'll add more later.* 

Begin! 






*


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## All in Twilight (Oct 12, 2012)

*Type 1*

1. What are some of your most important values? How do you feel when you go against your moral standards or personal integrity?

*I hate being a hypocrite towards myself and others and I really feel the need and urge to correct myself. Even if it has been a year or so after this particular moment of hypocrisy took place.* *I can't precisely describe what it is I feel but I think it's some form of guilt.* 
*I am fanatically loyal to my own values, even if this means the end of a relationship or friendship.*

2. Describe your relationship with anger. How do you express it? Are there situations where you don't experience guilt after expressing your anger? 

*Silence or Biting and bitchy. If I give you the silence look, the argument ends right there. You will never see me shouting, yelling, swearing and cursing in public.* 
*I can say that I have a temper and I can get infuriated when I am confronted with any form of injustice: violating human rights, animal rights. I can't bear to watch this and I feel an intense desire to destroy you. But you won't get anything out of me. No emotion, no personal interest in who you are and where you come from. I just want your head.* *I am however opposed to any form of violence so I won't indulge in this.* *Fighting violence with violence only creates more violence.*

3. What does power mean to you?

*It means nothing to me* *unless it's power over my own mind and actions.*


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## mushr00m (May 23, 2011)

Boss said:


> *
> Type 6:*
> 
> 1. We keep hearing about the ominous 6 mistrust. What does it take for you to trust someone? What does it take for someone to lose your trust? And really, how 'suspicious' are you?
> ...


1. The things that I need to be able to trust someone are as follows. The person needs to be consistent in what they say and do that means not breaking promises. Not blabbering what I told them in secret, seriously, that will cause some serious damage inside and between me and that person. Show me respect not warning signs that you may turn out to be toxic, backstabbing, that you aren't going to hurt me. In the past when people have dismantled the trust which takes a long time to earn, this involves observing your behaviour, sometimes I'm cool with you until you actually let me down and it's hard to completely get that initial trust back with you. I have lost trust with those who humiliate me, gossip about sensitive subjects I disclosed to them, tried to fraud me or set me up or somehow manipulate me because I will then ask why they felt the need to do that and will go through all the possible reasons as to why you acted in such a way that sparked my suspicions of you. I can be forgiving, it depends on how bad what you did was which shows just how a bad person you really are. You will know when the trust has gone when I stop sharing personal details with you, stop making arrangements to see or contact you and will sometimes make it clear that I have a problem with you, sometimes not and in those instances can be rather snide and sarcastic, make jibes at you or show you up in front of others so that they also doubt their trust in you aswell. This usually only happens when I have felt really violated by someone. Im pretty suspicious btw but it doesnt always seem that way, its not something i like to show everyone because that would leave others more concerned with how they come across and well it's better and more reliable to see someone showing their true colours. 

2. Ah, support networks. I get a warm, tingly feeling when I hear that word now, I used to hate it. Haha. Yeah, support networks vary a lot. I think the biggest most reassuring support is the emotional kind. Offers of assistance or someone offering 5 minutes to sit down and listen to you vent or just being there for a shoulder to lean on, to just be a friend to me and to live up to that name, someone that I can turn to in times of trouble and distress and same for me to them as long as I have my own life under control. I always need that kind of listening and offering advice kind of support hence why I have spent a great many years doing therapy. I have little/no family and have always felt that strong void as a result which has made me quite jealous of those who have that family support but now I try to see my friends as the nearest to family that I can get. And families aren't always ideal anyway. I seek support through the written form too. I have noticed I'm good at offering advice/soloutions to others but not always for myself, I go through periods of over relying on others advice but its different when I'm healthy. Perhaps it's because my mind when not thinking clearly or straight needs that external support even more due to just not trusting my own instincts but like I said, this is more applicable during unhealthiness.


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## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

No one _*ever *_wants to ask 4s questions.


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## Kito (Jan 6, 2012)

kaleidoscope said:


> No one _*ever *_wants to ask 4s questions.


*Type 4*

*1. *The vice of Four is described as envy, or longing. What is it that you find yourself longing for, and do you think the process of longing for something/envying someone is sweeter than actually getting what you want? 

*2. *What are your emotions to you? Do you find that negative emotions are as worth exploring and dwelling on as the positive ones?

*3. *Do you think there is a way for you to be truly satisfied and free of envy, or will there always be something you crave?

:happy:


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## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

Kito said:


> *Type 4*
> 
> *1. *The vice of Four is described as envy, or longing. What is it that you find yourself longing for, and do you think the process of longing for something/envying someone is sweeter than actually getting what you want?
> 
> ...


Yay, an interview!

*1.* Good question! I often find myself envying people for possessing personality characteristics that I lack. Comparison is the thief of joy, and so I've come to learn. I always notice the ways in which I fall short compared to others. There's always someone who's going to be more confident, more socially apt, more interesting, less dramatic, less self-conscious, more eloquent, etc. I have this concept of a fantasy self that I can *never* attain, no matter how hard I try. Because even though I'm able for a little while to capture of mimic traits I like in others, I can never sustain that for too long - and even if I do, it feels INCREDIBLY fake. It feels shallow, and pathetic. 

The second question is actually pretty pertinent, and it's something I struggle with a _*lot*_. I always subconsciously maintain this state of longing. There's a certain masochism that makes me want to prolong this struggle - which is not necessarily something all Fours have, and might be something specific to me. I love not getting what I want, because actually getting my desires fulfilled is bound to ruin things. The object of my fascination slowly begins to lose its appeal. I think that's an SX thing. Still, my attention is always naturally elsewhere, thinking of how things could be better, or different. I find it hard to remain in the present and enjoy what I have. 

*2. *Often times, negative emotions make me feel much more alive than positive emotions ever will. Even positive emotions themselves are elicited by negative emotions, my favorite being melancholy. It makes me feel at peace, and like myself. 

I also like this example of how negative emotions (and imagination) can override positive ones:



> For example, the thought of a distant friend can quickly summon wonderful feelings, an emotional counterpart for the thought of being together again. If attention then shifts from the authentic response that develops from thinking about the friend into imagining the greatest possible warmth that humans are capable of, the authentic reaction has been lost in an imaginative and unrealistic overlay of false feelings. *Likewise, a small oversight by that same friend could stimulate powerful feelings of rejection and hatred, which would quickly overlay the authentic, small reaction that the oversight actually warranted*.


Strangely enough, I tend to recreate negative emotions in order to recreate the intensity that I crave so much. I can never be satisfied with things being simply okay, or "fine". I live for extremes. 

*3.* A suggestion made for Fours was to focus on the present, instead of the past and what could be. I'm still trying to do that, but it's so difficult. It doesn't help that I'm an emotional masochist, lol. I find the unattainable simply delicious.


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## Eideticus (Oct 6, 2012)

2s:
~ How do you perceive and deal with withdrawn people?


8s:
~ What does fear mean to you? How do you experience it What are you really afraid of?
~ What does commitment in a relationship mean to you?


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## mushr00m (May 23, 2011)

8's. What happens in your personal experience of disintegrating to 5? Same goes for when you integrate to 2?


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## Lotan (Aug 10, 2012)

Boss said:


> *Type 7:
> *
> 1. What is the toughest, most painful part of being a 7? (got ya! lol)


NOTHING

Moving on.

Serious answer: I'm very driven and feel guilty if I'm not productive but I also have a very hard time with self-denial and getting through some tough times in order to make the future better. A lot of successful people I see are the people who worked 70 hour weeks with little sleep and almost no free time for years to get to the top, or the people who went to college and studied from the moment they got home until the moment they slept. I don't think I could handle that. If I have nothing to look forward to in the near future, I break down.



Boss said:


> 2. Introverted 7s: How do you seek stimulation? How do you avoid boredom?


Cheating because I'm an E, but I grew up as an only child who was often alone at home. There's tons of things you can do on your own. Books and video games and TV shows...hell, you can basically do whatever you want when you're alone. Sometimes I prefer it because I don't have to compromise or negotiate what to do with anyone else...

Also: the internet.


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## Ellis Bell (Mar 16, 2012)

I can imagine this thread getting VERY convoluted.


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## LennyTheFilly (Dec 5, 2012)

*Type 5 
1.)* One thing noted about the 5 is that they tend to withdraw. Is this just something that happens on instinct, something that just happens in a way? Or do certain things tend to make you guys want to withdraw? Mind listing a few?

*2.) *It is also stated that the 5 wants to be competent. Is there a specific reason for why this is, or is it something that they supposedly yearn to have? (Hope these questions are not breaching any personal bubbles... )

*3.) *What are some things that you usually think about when you withdraw if you go into your thoughts? Do you usually think about the situation at hand or is it something to help get your mind off of things? (Again, sorry if this pops any personal bubbles. D

I just have a feeling they will burst some bubbles. >.<


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## sleepyhead (Nov 14, 2011)

*Type 5 
1.) One thing noted about the 5 is that they tend to withdraw. Is this just something that happens on instinct, something that just happens in a way? Or do certain things tend to make you guys want to withdraw? Mind listing a few?*

For me, instinct. Certain things make me want to withdraw more than others, but for the most part, I feel I have limited energy and social situations drain me very quickly. When I'm stressed, I begin to feel overwhelmed by pretty much anything that takes me out of my home - so going to work becomes very difficult and I'll think of all the reasons I don't want to go and it's easy to talk myself into calling in sick.

In terms of listing things that cause me to want to withdraw, I would say sustained social contact (more than 2 hours) with friends; over-loading my schedule with commitments; social gatherings with many people, especially people I don't know well.

*2.) It is also stated that the 5 wants to be competent. Is there a specific reason for why this is, or is it something that they supposedly yearn to have? (Hope these questions are not breaching any personal bubbles... )*

This isn't something that's conscious for me, it's an automatic process to research, gather info, and become an expert in subjects. I love to research and really enjoy getting deep into topics I'm interested in. It's fun for me to sit down for 2-3 hours and read a textbook on a topic that interests me and it makes me feel...excited. 

The real issue is the reason behind my need and desire to research, which is that researching and preparing makes me feel like I'm gaining knowledge that will prepare me to deal with the demands of the outside world. For me, I feel like I can't take action until I'm well-prepared but 5's get stuck in preparation because they feel like they always need to gather more info to be prepared. So knowledge gathering is a way to make me feel confident enough to face the world. And I can't just go out and interact with the world because I see myself as separate from it and because I perceive the outside world as very draining physically and mentally. 
*
3.) What are some things that you usually think about when you withdraw if you go into your thoughts? Do you usually think about the situation at hand or is it something to help get your mind off of things?*

I used to often get stuck in loops of wishing I didn't want to withdraw, but feeling helpless to overcome the feeling that I need to. This isn't something I've dealt with as much in the last couple of years, but when my stress and anxiety is high I tend to stay thinking about the anxiety - why am I anxious? Why do I feel so guilty about not leaving the house? Why is it so hard for me to just leave? How did I get like this? What can I do to make the feeling go away?

I often think about the situation at hand and then write it down in my journal to get a better perspective and logically try and work through the problem. 

Sometimes I do just zone out though - distract through games or TV and just numb out for a while. It can be tiring sitting with those thoughts for too long but unless I'm distracting myself, they don't go away.


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## Ace Face (Nov 13, 2011)

*Type 3:

*_1. In what ways does self-deceit manifest for you? Do you ever feel like a fraud or con artist?
_
I sometimes feel so out of touch that I don't even realize I'm deceiving myself. In fact, I might even mostly be in denial about it... I'm not really sure. Perhaps I've just chosen to think about it in a more positive way. I wouldn't say that I deceive myself as much as I would suggest that my adaptability and ability to read and communicate with a diversity of people is a very special gift. I don't feel like a fraud. I am a very honest and authentic person. 

_2. What forms of validation do you seek?

_I honestly don't know. This is something I'll have to think about. As far as I'm aware, I don't think I often seek validation. I've often been viewed as a loner... as someone who has everything she needs within herself. I know why I believe what I believe is another way to put it. I don't need other people to reassure me that I'm doing, thinking, or believing something right. Validation can be nice, but I wouldn't say it's something I actively seek out. In many ways, I've grown to enjoy not being validated. I get bored, feel akward, and feel like I'm being deprived of honesty from others if I'm constantly being validated. There's no real challenge in validation, and I like being challenged. How I feel about challenges in daily life is the same way I feel when I play video games. It's fun, thrilling, enjoyable, and the outcome can be unpredictable. You never know how you're going to do, and you've just got to buck up and give it a go. It's a great feeling. I have gone wayyyy off track... as usual


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## hela (Feb 12, 2012)

*Type 7:

1. What is the toughest, most painful part of being a 7? (got ya! lol)*
Self-discipline and avoiding escapism.

Adding another line solely because I just won the "shortest response of all time" award.


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

Ellis Bell said:


> I can imagine this thread getting VERY convoluted.



You're right. I knew that when I created the thread. I just wasn't interested in creating a new thread in each of the 9 Type forums. There a couple of Ask (enter broad grouping) threads coming up that are going relatively well, so this one should be fine with some tweaking*.

One way to make it a bit more organized (feel free to suggest others, guys):*

1. Give your post a title (Questions/Answers) and mention what Types you are posing questions to (e.g. Questions for Types X, Y OR Answers for Type X). So, people can sift through posts easier and not get confused. Giving post titles seems redundant, but it can help when the posts are longer and the thread starts to get longer. 

2. Use separate posts to answer and ask questions.

Thanks guys.


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## RepairmanMan Man (Jan 21, 2012)

Boss said:


> *
> Type 6:*
> 
> 1. We keep hearing about the ominous 6 mistrust. What does it take for you to trust someone? What does it take for someone to lose your trust? And really, how 'suspicious' are you?


I've never thought I have a problem with "suspicion". If I did, it would have been a lot easier to peg my core type. No one's ever mentioned it to me, no one's ever commented on my "lack of trust" or criticized me along other 6 lines. I get criticized for my 4-fix.

I don't consider myself to be a "mistrustful" person--I kind of have the policy of, "I trust you until you give me reason to mistrust you." I really DON'T think everyone's out to get me--most people are far too self-centered to be plotting to do me in.

Some things that make me mistrustful--
- living in another country as a foreigner and knowing I'm always going to be perceived as rich and double-charged
- finding out you lied to me/did something behind my back
- getting defensive and evasive when I ask you a question
- people who repeatedly flake out on me
- gut feeling that something's not to be trusted.

So, normal stuff.

I've walked into the same traps my 9w1 parents have in terms of trusting other family members. The difference is that I'm just less likely to pretend it never happened. No, once you've violated my trust, no amount of anything you can ever do will ever possibly change that. You've poisoned the water. Nothing will re-grow.



> 2. What does support mean to you? How do you go about acquiring it, if at all?


Honestly, it's something that annoys me. I get an image of all these adult women giggling like 15-year-olds and crying on each other's shoulders about breaking up with their boyfriends. That's honestly what I think of when I think of a "support group".

And yuck. I'm psychologically incapable of doing that. No, I have nothing to "prove" by being that way. I simply don't function like that. I couldn't even do this as part of an act, or for a movie or play or something. I simply cannot make my psyche bend that way.

To me, I can think of an example when my stepfather and I had this enormous altercation. My father called and simply said, "I support you." I was like, _HOLY FUCKING SHIT. Someone's actually taking my side on this? THANK YOU. _

It was like the only thing I ever wanted to hear from my mother as a kid--that she actually cared that he was verbally abusing me, that she would actually acknowledge that her husband hated me, that she even thought my protests were legitimate. She never did. She was far too interested in presenting a "unified front" than she was in supporting me, i.e., acknowledging that I had a legitimate side in every argument.

So, I guess to me, "support" goes hand in hand with being a reactive type and wanting mirroring and acknowledgement. It really means a lot to know someone will take my side.

But I never really do expect to be "supported" in any sense--since no one really has in the past. If I can't cope with something alone, then I simply won't do it, rather than ask for anyone else's help. Again, I'm not trying to "prove" something to myself or to you; it's just really hard for me to be another way. 

I really do struggle to see the ways I've created a "support system" in life, other than keeping some emergency cash on hand and an insurance policy (or, I'd _like_ an insurance policy, if I ever get the money), keeping in touch with my parents, accepting cash donations from them, and knowing a reliable person to call if I have questions about life in Cambodia. All that stuff's open to change, modification, even eradication, too. Maybe I'm looking at this all wrong, but I just do not see it.


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## Dark Romantic (Dec 27, 2011)

mushr00m said:


> 8's. What happens in your personal experience of disintegrating to 5? Same goes for when you integrate to 2?


For me, a line to five results in me withdrawing, cutting off contact with people, and becoming cold, scheming and secretive. I find other people more draining and a waste of time, and I usually won't want to be involved with others beyond pragmatic concerns (I'm like that with people most of the time, but I have a much lower tolerance for others during times like that). So, a line to five is characterized by a drive for solitude accompanied by reflection on what's happened, why, and how to turn things around, which, if left to itself, turns into a cynical, misanthropic outlook which is accompanied by an inner deadness.

Integrating to two is... freeing. Letting all of what makes me who I am flow through me, rather than burying and killing them, makes me feel very alive and much stronger. I start to care more about seeing people succeed and do well for themselves, and I find it easier to open up to people and let them in, to some degree. The biggest thing I could say about it, though, is that my conception of "me" starts to expand to the people around me, and their interests start to merge with my own. The boundary between myself and others starts to melt away.


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## Eideticus (Oct 6, 2012)

*Replying to Metallica as a 5*

Naturally, this all is just of my point of view. Personally, I liked these questions!



Metallica said:


> *Type 5
> 1.)* One thing noted about the 5 is that they tend to withdraw. Is this just something that happens on instinct, something that just happens in a way? Or do certain things tend to make you guys want to withdraw? Mind listing a few?


Withdrawing is something that happens very naturally. It is the state I feel most comfortable with so I actually need to struggle to avoid it.

But I am not always withdrawn, it depends on my energy level, company and the reasons for me to be wherever I happen to be. 

I withdraw when I see no reason to participate or when I feel tired because of too much participation with the world. Participation could mean letting stimuli like noise, traffic, either active or passive socializing etc. have an impact on me. 

Whenever I do not even have a choice to withdraw, I get tired even more easily because of having to constantly control my energy level to avoid exhaustion which is something very challenging for me to pass and process. 

That is why I try to avoid places where I have no possibility to hide from the world... I like to have a backdoor to use when things become too much to take. That could mean an interesting book, mp3 player etc.

Maybe not many 5s are as obsessive about their resources or that sensitive to different stimuli, I do not know any other 5s so I cannot really tell. Furthermore, I definitely have troubles facing my feelings. Those sort of get fixated on me and I do not know what to do. And that is the very thing I hate, being helpless and very emotional.

So, in my every day life, I withdraw when I have spent some time with others. The worst is when I have a friend visiting because I really cannot tell straight that I want to be alone but usually end up, unconsciously, seeming tired and rather quiet and absent-minded and the problem is solved before I know it (it is always useful and smart to select friends who are smart). 

I also withdraw when I find something so interesting that I cannot do anything else. This is probably what seems to bother others most because I become so distant and indifferent without realizing it although I would admit that I cared more about my project than their company. 

I also withdraw when I feel sad or lonely because I assume it will be my consolation... which it always is not.

*2.) *It is also stated that the 5 wants to be competent. Is there a specific reason for why this is, or is it something that they supposedly yearn to have?

How could I not be competent? I just must. Not being competent is losing my face. I guess it is such a massive part of my ego I still do not feel ready to give up from and that secretly I wish to be something and acknowledged too. I really like to impress people, you could call me vain in that way.

But I think my curiosity and passion for knowledge were there first, I only learned that wow, this could be my way to be successful and feel myself a bit more meaningful.


*3.) *What are some things that you usually think about when you withdraw if you go into your thoughts? Do you usually think about the situation at hand or is it something to help get your mind off of things?

Ah, this sounds very dull but all kinds of theories. I like to observe and I like to formulate things so that they make sense. So, many phenomena I see, people for example, produce wonderful research material. 

So, I guess I think mostly how it all makes sense, why things happen the way they happen. I also think a lot issues I am currently interested in which could be whatever random stuff.

@_sleepyhead_, I noticed you had replied too! I had already written my post so it was so interesting to compare these.


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## Shadowlight (Dec 12, 2012)

*Type 5 
1.) One thing noted about the 5 is that they tend to withdraw. Is this just something that happens on instinct, something that just happens in a way? Or do certain things tend to make you guys want to withdraw? Mind listing a few?*

For me it's purely instinct. It's something that comes about when 

1. My self-confidence is challenged in some way. This is usually an outcome of a social interaction that confuses me, or a new piece of information that I hadn't considered in my existing mind-map. I have a blind spot to new information at times so when it is presented to me, my initial reaction is an immediate feeling of feeling incompetent. 

2. Another thing that makes me "withdraw" - but that's not withdrawal in a negative sense - is extended social contact. I need to retreat to my personal space to pursue activities that keep the energy level up. This could be continuing to read up on my current interest. Looking up new facts to support / disprove existing theories and just adding to my existing base of knowledge and expertise. The more I read and learn, the more comfortable and confident I feel. 

*2.) It is also stated that the 5 wants to be competent. Is there a specific reason for why this is, or is it something that they supposedly yearn to have? (Hope these questions are not breaching any personal bubbles... )
*
The need for wanting to competent wasn't something I had consciously thought of while growing up. It wasn't brought to the forefront till I read about Type 5 and their need to feel competent. I had to trace back to my repeated patterns of behaviour to notice it as a recurring theme of my life. Competency for me originally was defined as the way to live. 

I mean that this was how I had defined myself: See a need, fill a need - but in order to do so I had to feel like I'm an expert in whatever it is that I was filling that need in. For me, it came out in the realm of social relationships (probably partly because of the 2-fix), as opposed to pure scientific research. 

This is where my interest in Sociology and Psychology comes from. I've read Marx, Kant, and a few other theorists on my own in order to continue to understand the world and then the interest in MBTI/Enneagrams was purely out of instinct as well because I had recently crashed in the real world and I needed to understand why things happened the way they did and what my role and others role was in it. I had all these facts, but the reasons .. the "why?" wasn't there. I needed to know. 

Psychology is the only way to understand humans and whatever led me to this crash needed to be intellectualized and figured out for it to make sense to me. 

*3.) What are some things that you usually think about when you withdraw if you go into your thoughts? Do you usually think about the situation at hand or is it something to help get your mind off of things? (Again, sorry if this pops any personal bubbles. D*

I try to make things fit together in order for them to make sense. I take everything that I know about the event and place them before me metaphorically and try to make the puzzle pieces fit together. The outliers are the ones that I feel I need to research. 

For example, at work I was recently given the task of Content management (this was an area out of my area of expertise). My initial reaction was an immediate feeling of "OMG, I can't do this!" before I decided to retreat back home for 3 days (I took time off) and I studied article after article on how to be a good content manager. I did the same when they asked me to design their facebook campaign. I spent two days just reading as many web articles as I could about what makes successful facebook campaigns before I felt confident enough to make one for my own company. Both these fell out of my area of expertise, so I had to retreat back to learn as much as I could in order to develop an effective strategy.

Getting out of my head is more 7-ish for me. And probably also a combination of inferior Se. I need to indulge in some sort of outdoor activity for a bit. It helps me both distract myself a little. But even when I'm out, I'm just taking in the ambiance and a change in environment to continue to stew on whatever it is that's on my mind. I can be a little distracted when I'm out, but I've had some amazing epiphanies when I've left my room as well. 

Sometimes, I'd just be contemplating a number of things and everything would just fall together in a "Aha! That's it! That's what I need to do!" But that's also kinda explained through Ni. Hard to tell where the CF end and Enneagrams start. There seems to be an overlap here.


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## Umber (Jun 17, 2012)

Dark Romantic said:


> So, a line to five is characterized by a drive for solitude accompanied by reflection on what's happened, why, and how to turn things around, which, if left to itself, turns into a cynical, misanthropic outlook which is accompanied by an inner deadness.
> .


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## Dark Romantic (Dec 27, 2011)

Umber said:


>


Your image isn't showing up. What was it?


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## Umber (Jun 17, 2012)

Dark Romantic said:


> Your image isn't showing up. What was it?


It is the cold glare of my people.:wink:


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## Dark Romantic (Dec 27, 2011)

Umber said:


> It is the cold glare of my people.:wink:


And here I thought that unholy chill was just the Canadian winter. Gimmie the sun back, you thief!


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## goodgracesbadinfluence (Feb 28, 2011)

*Answering as a 4*

^__^



Kito said:


> *Type 4*
> 
> *1. *The vice of Four is described as envy, or longing. What is it that you find yourself longing for, and do you think the process of longing for something/envying someone is sweeter than actually getting what you want?


I long for many things. It seems I can never be truly satisfied with something, but maybe I'm just comfortable with the feeling of longing for something. As I've gotten older, I have been less jealous of people and more or less romanticising situations I don't/can't have. 



Kito said:


> *2. *What are your emotions to you? Do you find that negative emotions are as worth exploring and dwelling on as the positive ones?


I don't like emotions as an entity within myself. I explore and dwell on my negative emotions in an attempt to understand and negate them. I often don't know where my emotions even come from or why I feel how I feel; it is all a convoluted mess to me. 



Kito said:


> *3. *Do you think there is a way for you to be truly satisfied and free of envy, or will there always be something you crave?


No. I wish I could be, but I doubt it. There will always be something I desire yet cannot have, whether it be material or intangible. It's frustrating. Maybe if I could buy everything material I wanted, I'd be a little happier... as long as I worked hard for the money, otherwise it might go to my head. Or maybe if I had higher self-esteem, the lack of satisfaction would wane. I've found I am less envious when not bogged down by low self-worth.


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## SocioApathetic (May 20, 2012)

*Type 3:
*
*1. In what ways does self-deceit manifest for you? Do you ever feel like a fraud or con artist?*

"Con artist" _does_ sound better, so I am going to go with that one.

*2. What forms of validation do you seek? 
*
Golden stars. I like the way they feel on my forehead.

Then again, certainly, a cookie for my efforts will also do quite well.


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## SharkT00th (Sep 5, 2012)

Boss said:


> *
> Type 7:
> *
> 1. What is the toughest, most painful part of being a 7? (got ya! lol)
> ...


Being a 7 has it's painful moments that I don't think many 7's are willing to share. First and foremost I cannot actually deal directly with my emotions very well, and I keep my emotions at bay. The way in which I do this is by dealing with emotions bit by bit, or by imaging a better future in which I have everything somehow fulfilled and the current reality is just passing so therefore it is irrelevant Of-course none of these strategies will work and in the end my emotions can come crashing down like a ton of bricks until I actually get around to dealing with them 

Another aspect of the 7 that is hard to deal with is constantly trying to determine what reality actually it is. Since I can experience the world through mental concepts I can obscure reality in my minds eye and constantly be living in a fantasy world. Stemming from this, I can see many possibilities of how events will unfold, and unfortunately I tend to fixate on the most positive sets of outcomes which usually are not the most realist. I then get upset when events do not unfold in their most preferred way. 

I am working on allowing myself to actually live in the present and face reality instead of trying to bend everything. The problem with the type 7 is that they don't always accumulate wisdom from all of their experiences since they either don't deal with the event, ignore the event, or see the event as something that ought to not have happened. I have gotten to a point recently where it's alright for me to not be "alright" and that it's also a part of life.


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## suicidal_orange (May 6, 2010)

*Questions for 4s and 5s*

*Question for 4s*
I have read that 4s in their search for the "something missing" can fixate on physical things which are hard to obtain for whatever reason, but on acquiring them interest is lost. Any experience of this?

*Question for 5s*
5s are said to have delayed emotional reactions to things but I am wondering how you look back over your life. Do you find that your personal story is just facts or there are emotions attached to significant events?


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## Eideticus (Oct 6, 2012)

suicidal_orange said:


> *Question for 5s*
> 5s are said to have delayed emotional reactions to things but I am wondering how you look back over your life. Do you find that your personal story is just facts or there are emotions attached to significant events?


Interesting question, I have never thought about that before. I really started to think what are emotions in the first place and was surprised to see Wikipedia listing so many of them but I recognized most of those.

When I look back over my life, there are many emotions being part of the picture but perhaps because of low awareness of emotions and low motivation to experience or express them on the whole, they are definitely not the main thing of the related significant event. Technically, I could even start to experience the emotion when it is provoked but it still takes a lot longer to become aware of it. And I do not mind experiencing them later when I am alone since I feel so uncomfortable expressing them anyway. I think my memories of most emotions have faded a long time ago or were never really strong to recall. This has simply not been a meaningful area for me which is probably reflected in this reply and its depth. I regret having been so blind though, I could have learned a lot from my emotions.


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## sleepyhead (Nov 14, 2011)

suicidal_orange said:


> *Question for 5s*
> 5s are said to have delayed emotional reactions to things but I am wondering how you look back over your life. Do you find that your personal story is just facts or there are emotions attached to significant events?


For me personally, it's not quite that simple. There are definitely emotions attached to significant events, but for some events, I might not have felt it in the moment or I might not have been aware that's what I was feeling - I might only notice it in retrospect when I have time to think about it. I find this goes for my opinion as well - after I see a movie I can never say if I liked it or not right after - I need time to think about it and digest it and come to a conclusion.

Very often for me, it's not that the emotion never happens, just that it can happen much later, sometimes years after the fact. 

Sometimes as well I might internally be having a reaction but can't express it externally - this often happens when someone gives me a gift and expects me to be excited. I've been given very meaningful gifts and had the giver think I didn't like them when in reality I really treasure them.


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## Coburn (Sep 3, 2010)

Answering questions posed a la @Boss

*Type 1 :*

*1. What are some of your most important values? How do you feel when you go against your moral standards or personal integrity?*

Biggest drive: autonomy. Second biggest drive: meaningful work that spends me up.

When I go against them? Well I'm usually rationalizing as I go along, so I don't feel much. There are very few areas of my past where I feel any sort of guilt for my behavior/decisions. It usually takes me a couple years after said event to have some perspective on it.

*2. Describe your relationship with anger. How do you express it? Are there situations where you don't experience guilt after expressing your anger? *

Anger is the Great Clarifyer. It helps me outline where I stand against everything else. It gives me energy, gives me purpose, gives me guidance. Anger is, generally speaking, a great thing. 

When I'm angry over a festering situation, it goes from a pronounced irritableness to a sudden snap. If it's just a flat out stupid situation I snap instantly. 

I only feel guilt if the object of my anger was not A) the cause of it (in which case I am redirecting anger) or B) deserving of it. Sometimes I let my anger carry me further than I should.

*3. What does power mean to you?*

Ugh, back to this stupidly vague word. I pronounce this question a









EDIT: @Boss, you're not supposed to thank me for failing you.


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## SharkT00th (Sep 5, 2012)

sleepyhead said:


> For me personally, it's not quite that simple. There are definitely emotions attached to significant events, but for some events, I might not have felt it in the moment or I might not have been aware that's what I was feeling - I might only notice it in retrospect when I have time to think about it. I find this goes for my opinion as well - after I see a movie I can never say if I liked it or not right after - I need time to think about it and digest it and come to a conclusion.
> 
> Very often for me, it's not that the emotion never happens, just that it can happen much later, sometimes years after the fact.
> 
> Sometimes as well I might internally be having a reaction but can't express it externally - this often happens when someone gives me a gift and expects me to be excited. I've been given very meaningful gifts and had the giver think I didn't like them when in reality I really treasure them.


I can relate to this very well, and what if this is not a type 5 things but a general head type way of dealing with emotions. I do notice that sometimes the emotional weight of an event hits me much later, and somehow it all comes together in a strange way.


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## Raichan (Jul 15, 2010)

Boss said:


> Alright guys, you can go ahead and pose questions to different types about their experiences with being Type X. Or any other questions you may have that are type relevant. This might help dispel some stereotyping, and encourage some dialogue and improved understanding about other types.
> 
> *If you're responding from the standpoint of having a strong fix as opposed to core, please specify in your answer.*
> 
> ...




I sometimes envy the stereotype surrounding core type 5s about them being able to articulate better in words than I do *cough* :crazy: But I think I'm able to describe some explanations better at this point. I think recently my deeper understanding of feminism has also transformed some of my views, but I still remain justice oriented.

A number of people in this world, their voices aren't heard NOT because they can't speak, but because they have been unfairly blocked by intolerance, discriminations, unhealthy irrational stereotypes that infiltrate through mainstream media level and to communities. One of my values is to recognize working towards, even if it means behind the scenes, recognition of the concerns and needs expressed by disadvantaged groups. 

When you work on a personal level towards helping those who are disadvantaged on the basis of gender, class, sexuality, religion, minority culture, race -- you can potentially benefit everyone else in society in terms of the long run. I believe negative discrimination and spreading hateful stereotypes against minority or disadvantaged groups serve to also negatively effect other members in the society, even if not seen on superficial level. 

At the same time I don't like going to extremes. I don't like extremists who possess an us versus them mentality in every aspect, when fighting against oppression. This is why even as myself being both a Muslim and a feminist, I tend to avoid anti-humanity 'religious' fundamentalists, 'feminist' fundamentalists and fundamentalists of any belief really. Dogmatic extremism with no humanity aims has no place in society.

How do I feel when I go against my own values? I would feel like shit, heh. One way that I try to make myself learn in being more objective is that I spend time studying the different view points of others, view points that are held by others that might oppose myself. It doesn't mean I am of doubt or would be swayed by them, to me it's a logical process in terms of learning about tolerance. I wrote before,''I feel best when I've managed to learn different view points, but yet still remain tolerant and listener when I need to be ( tolerating doesn't always mean accepting/agreeing with, but sometimes it's a basic focal point for oneself to understand humanity, and the world)''



> 2. Describe your relationship with anger. How do you express it? Are there situations where you don't experience guilt after expressing your anger?


Guilt and anger can be inseparable, and it's something I'm working on (still). Parts of my life had been hell because I used to get the impression, used to be taught that my anger was 'wrong' somehow.



> 3. What does power mean to you?


Power is tricky. At times the people who think they have the most personal power are actually taking away their own power.


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## tympanon (May 1, 2011)

kaleidoscope said:


> No one _*ever *_wants to ask 4s questions.


:laughing:

This thread was started a few days ago and no one even bothered to mention 9s.


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## SocioApathetic (May 20, 2012)

apple pie said:


> :laughing:
> 
> This thread was started a few days ago and no one even bothered to mention 9s.


Perhaps they just got lazy.


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## Shadowlight (Dec 12, 2012)

suicidal_orange said:


> *Question for 5s*
> 5s are said to have delayed emotional reactions to things but I am wondering how you look back over your life. Do you find that your personal story is just facts or there are emotions attached to significant events?


One of the strangest things that occurs with me is that even though there is an emotional reaction inside, my verbalization of that emotional reaction is such that it seems almost non-existent at the moment. This happens quite frequently. I remember when my grandmother died and my mother told me. My reaction was "Ok. When's the funeral?". Really. That's all it was. But now that I think about it 10 years after the fact, I feel nostalgic about all the good times I spent with her. Same thing happens when it's my birthday and I get wished. My reaction is "Thank you." and a brief smile. Sometimes I even forget to smile but about an hour or so later I realize that I should've shown more of a reaction. 

As for memory, it's a combination of just facts, just emotions, or facts and emotions combined. Usually it's just facts with a detached emotional content to them. It's like, I remember a sad event and all its details and then I wonder whether I had an emotional reaction to it or not. It was definitely delayed. I went through a major trauma in my life without so much as shedding a tear, but a decade after the fact, there was a trigger which made me cry. 

I did explore my feelings after that trigger and I realize that there's so much there. There's a wealth of feeling associated with events that I could've, should've felt and I went down a path of existential nihilism trying to reconcile with a relatively traumatic past and detached emotions from that past. The events all have emotions attached to them, it's just that I think they're buried or repressed, or somewhere I can't access easily - so I have to dig very deep to bring them out. I have a friend who helps me through this now.


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## LennyTheFilly (Dec 5, 2012)

@apple pie
Haha, I know right?

But then again...

whatever.


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## Mizmar (Aug 12, 2009)

suicidal_orange said:


> *Question for 5s*
> 5s are said to have delayed emotional reactions to things but I am wondering how you look back over your life. Do you find that your personal story is just facts or there are emotions attached to significant events?


Externally I typically don't have emotional reactions at all (delayed or otherwise), though internally I might be feeling something very strongly and it just doesn't come across. I express myself in flat, matter-of-fact kind of way. An example that illustrates this how, a while back, myself and a friend who I was in a band with were describing what we do (the kind of music we play, ect.) to someone else. I must have been speaking with such a flat affect that my friend mockingly said, "Mr. Enthusiasm over here ..." 
But I actually DID feel enthusiastic! I might even say I felt more enthusiasm than he did in light of the fact that he left the group shortly after this experience, whereas I'm still enjoying myself performing with them. But I guess my passion just doesn't always come across.

My memories are _always_ colored with the emotional states I experienced at the time. And the slightest things can trigger those memories. The smell of a freshly mowed lawn fills me with a vague sense of dread because it reminds me of high school gym class when I'd be outside having to play sports and the smell of mowed grass would be present. The sight of snow still makes me feel exhilarated because it reminds of waking up to see snow and realizing I don't have to go to school. (As you've probably guessed I hated school with a deep passion!)

I have yet to have a "delayed" emotional response to anything. Then again most of my responses are internal, so in that sense they are all sort of..."delayed".



sleepyhead said:


> Sometimes as well I might internally be having a reaction but can't express it externally - this often happens when someone gives me a gift and expects me to be excited. I've been given very meaningful gifts and had the giver think I didn't like them when in reality I really treasure them.


That happens to me often; it's like I can't find the right word or external expression to convey what I'm feeling. I was quite pleased when I got my first car but I felt like people saw me as indifferent to it. 



Shadowlight said:


> One of the strangest things that occurs with me is that even though there is an emotional reaction inside, my verbalization of that emotional reaction is such that it seems almost non-existent at the moment. This happens quite frequently. I remember when my grandmother died and my mother told me. My reaction was "Ok. When's the funeral?". Really. That's all it was. But now that I think about it 10 years after the fact, I feel nostalgic about all the good times I spent with her. Same thing happens when it's my birthday and I get wished. My reaction is "Thank you." and a brief smile. Sometimes I even forget to smile but about an hour or so later I realize that I should've shown more of a reaction.


I don't really get excited over my birthdays because I'm just not sentimental about them. I loved both of my grandmothers but I didn't really feel much when they died. In both cases there was a sense of peace, like it was truly their time to go. It's been over a decade since they passed, so if I ever find myself feeling deeply saddened by their loss I'll know I've had a "delayed emotional response."

On the other hand, when my pet cat died I about five years ago I was immediately crushed, devastated by it. I never knew true anguish before then. The anguish lasted for at _least_ a year. I never would have expected the loss of a pet to effect me that way (I had lost pets before then but none of those deaths effected me so deeply). I resist thinking back to this period of my life because the associated feelings are there. I have to seclude myself first so I can deal with them. It's like a wound that will never completely heal.

So, I guess my emotional responses a hard to predict even for me.


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## sleepyhead (Nov 14, 2011)

Mizmar said:


> I loved both of my grandmothers but I didn't really feel much when they died. In both cases there was a sense of peace, like it was truly their time to go. It's been over a decade since they passed, so if I ever find myself feeling deeply saddened by their loss I'll know I've had a "delayed emotional response."
> 
> On the other hand, when my pet cat died I about five years ago I was immediately crushed, devastated by it. I never knew true anguish before then. The anguish lasted for at _least_ a year. I never would have expected the loss of a pet to effect me that way (I had lost pets before then but none of those deaths effected me so deeply). I resist thinking back to this period of my life because the associated feelings are there. I have to seclude myself first so I can deal with them. It's like a wound that will never completely heal.


Your experience mirrors mine.

My grandma died 6 years ago and I had the same experience - sad, but peaceful as well and it was long expected.

I've mentioned in other threads my 19 year old cat died 3 months ago and its still very hard to deal with. Sometimes it completely blindsides me. I saw this picture a couple of weeks ago and at first though, "Aw, that's sweet." Then a few days later _I _showed it to my boyfriend and burst into tears unexpectedly. I have a very tough time going to my parents where she lived. Truly feels like the loss of one of my closest friends.

Even though it as 5 years ago, I'm sorry for your loss.


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## Shadowlight (Dec 12, 2012)

Mizmar said:


> So, I guess my emotional responses a hard to predict even for me.


I have had 2 cats, a dog and a bird die on me (none of them mine - but my family's), and I felt more at their deaths than I did at my grandmothers' or even aunt and uncle who passed away. 

Honestly, because of the death of my animals (all of them were needless and in my view avoidable with better planning and care), I've decided not to get anymore pets. Maybe it's because deep down I know I wouldn't be able to handle another loss of that sort. Children and animals are my soft-spots as I've mentioned in another thread. I don't feel as much for adults (if at all) who can take care of themselves. 

I can completely understand how you must feel because I think I feel the same way about the losses of pets in my life.


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## Shadowlight (Dec 12, 2012)

sleepyhead said:


> I saw this picture a couple of weeks ago and at first though, "Aw, that's sweet." Then a few days later _I _showed it to my boyfriend and burst into tears unexpectedly.


I may not be able to express it properly. But I did feel something when I saw that picture. I can imagine how wonderful it would've been to have had a pet for that long, and therefore how equally gut wrenching it would be to lose it. I had a kitten that followed me home when I was only 12 and we had her for only 3 years - but she gave birth and soon as that happened, for some unknown reason my father decided to give her and her kittens away. 

I was devastated and I wanted to hit him after she was gone a few days, but I said absolutely nothing at all. And then I sort of kept the emotions to myself all these years. I used to imagine her looking for me from time to time (as I had heard/read stories about pets being able to find their way to their masters). I wanted her back so badly but I never said a word. 

My father gave away another puppy just as I had gotten attached to it (I must've been 8 or 9 at that point). Later I heard that it was killed by a car. Again, I only had an internal reaction to it. Internally I was simmering, infuriated, gutted, angry. But externally, all I did was just sit there as I heard the news and then walk away to my room.


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## DomNapoleon (Jan 21, 2012)

*Question for 2,5 and 8: *
1. What's your relationship with power? 
2. Are you manipulative? If so, how? 
3. Do you trust people? 
4. Do you really need people? : P 
LOL, the rejection triad intrigues me


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## Grau the Great (Mar 2, 2012)

mushr00m said:


> 8's. What happens in your personal experience of disintegrating to 5? Same goes for when you integrate to 2?


Late, but I don't care. I feel like answering this anyway. :laughing:

It's funny, actually. I've had the experience of disintegrating more than a few times, and it's really kind of unnerving in a way. The best way I can describe it is that I almost entirely shut down. Ostensibly, it's to regroup, reorganize, and plan to move forward, but long term planning isn't my strong suit to begin with, so it usually ends up as a near-total shutdown and stagnation. At that point in the past, I've been unable to figure out how to go forward, so responded by shutting down more and withdrawing further. At its worst, it's been a vicious cycle where I was completely unresponsive, let obligations and tasks simply go undone, and let a lot of damage happen purely through neglect.

I've heard a lot of people talk about depression in that manner actually, though I can say that my own experiences weren't accompanied by any sort of self-doubt, sadness, or feelings of worthlessness. It was almost completely devoid of anything at all, like being half-dead. My thinking shut down out of self-protection; I could sit in a room and just have time pass, not worrying (or thinking) about anything at all. But even as things spiralled out of my control, I still remained convinced that "I can handle this, I just need time to figure it out". Of course, I didn't come up with those solutions, as I lacked motivation, clear thinking, and most other things at that point. Bad scene really, as at the same time I became much more suspicious and a lot more sensitive to outside disturbances.

For better or worse, I have much more experiencing with disintegrating to 5 than integrating to 2, though I've felt it a few times. At my best, it's almost as if I can begin to sense the connections between people that I've heard others talk about so much. I've almost never felt this myself, and the few hints I've felt of it have been... interesting, to say the least. I don't think I'll ever be able to transform into a natural empath, as that's not really possible for a personality so focused on barriers, boundaries, and the separations between individuals, but what's stood out to me most about those moments of integration was the sense that those connections are actually there. It wasn't any sort of behavioral change on my part, 'becoming more helpful' or some nonsense like you might read in an 8-description. It was much more a fleeting glimpse that there might actually be things far greater out there than I can feel myself. Those handful of times I've had that vague sense, I've felt very happy, humbled, confused, angry, and envious all at once. Difficult to explain really, but again, I can count on my fingers the number of times this has happened.


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## VamPie (Dec 25, 2012)

Phoenix_Rebirth said:


> *Question for 2,5 and 8: *
> 1. What's your relationship with power?
> 2. Are you manipulative? If so, how?
> 3. Do you trust people?
> ...


1. I don't like it - it's much more tricky than people tend to think. I hate when somebody has power over me, but having power over somebody is also not pleasant. I'd like to have power over my life, that's the kind of power fives want.
2. I don't think I'm manipulative by nature, I try to avoid manipulation and rather being straightforward about things I want. However, in some cases I may feel I have no other option, then I would try to manipulate - if I think it's possible.
3. Rarely and I tend to limit my trust.
4. I don't think so. For example being trapped on desert island or post-apocalyptic world as the last human it wouldn't be that bad, I think. Or being a hermit. Don't get me wrong I wouldn't say I don't need people at all, because in normal circumstances I do, but it would do without them.


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## Mizmar (Aug 12, 2009)

Phoenix_Rebirth said:


> *Question for 2,5 and 8: *
> 1. What's your relationship with power?


I love the feeling of power I get when I feel intimately connected to the universe through either knowledge or observation. However, I was never concerned with having power over others. I do wish I had the power to protect the earth from asteroid impacts and other galactic threats, and to protect the biosphere from further vandalism.



> 2. Are you manipulative? If so, how?


Not in the everyday sense of the word. I do have a way of deflecting attention away from myself, sort of making myself invisible. :ninja: I guess that's manipulative in a way.



> 3. Do you trust people?


I don't trust most people with personal information about myself. I *do* trust that people will look at me funny and sometimes ridicule me if I do or say something weird, so I often close myself off to some degree when I'm around others I don't know real well.



> 4. Do you really need people? : P


I've often felt like I don't need close relationships. I do, however, need a mechanic to fix my car, a dentist to check on my teeth, ect.



> LOL, the rejection triad intrigues me


You're welcome. :happy:


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## Grau the Great (Mar 2, 2012)

Phoenix_Rebirth said:


> *Question for 2,5 and 8: *
> 1. What's your relationship with power?
> 2. Are you manipulative? If so, how?
> 3. Do you trust people?
> ...


Ok, let's take a look at these.

_*1. What's your relationship with power?*_

It's a lot less simple than just "I like power, lol". I think a lot of it has to do with the definition one uses. For me, power is quite literally everything: the forces that run the universe, the forces that control time and evolution, that allow individuals to think, to self-determinate, to interact. 

Power is energy; it's constantly present, so it's difficult to describe a particular 'relationship' to it. I don't have a particular relationship to air, and I view power similarly. Power is useful to me in much the same way air is, though: to sustain myself, to allow me to continue to live, think, and act freely.

_*2. Are you manipulative? If so, how?*
_
I can be. If I believe that whatever goal or result I have my sights set on is worth it, I don't have a problem manipulating people or bending the truth. I don't do it for fun or just to mess with people, though. 

And as for the 'how', part: the best way I can answer that is that I'm pretty good at being able to see peoples' weaknesses. I'm poorly connected in terms of empathic emotional understanding, but I can usually see weak points pretty quickly and easily. Once those are known to me, I can play off of them to convince the person of whatever I need them to do for a particular objective.

_*3. Do you trust people?*
_
In general, no. I can, but it takes a long time. I don't 'test' people's loyalty though, and I actually hate that sort of thing. Drives me nuts when it's done to me. I usually observe, and after a while might make up my mind that they're trustworthy. But once my mind's been made up to trust them, I trust them entirely; no 'tests', no doubts, no questions asked. I've actually been completely blindsided in the past because of this.

_*4. Do you really*__* need people?*
_
Honestly? No, not really. I _like_ interacting with people. I _like_ meeting new people. I _want_ to have close relationships, and I envy those who seem to be able to connect with others effortlessly.

But in terms of 'need'? No. I don't need others. That's not some sort of arrogant boast or depressive reflection, either. It simply is. Despite being outgoing at times, funny, friendly, an extrovert, and whatever else, I'm at my deepest level a loner. I've always viewed myself as separate. Not 'different', not 'special', just separate. And after thinking that way for decades, I really don't need others.


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## sleepyhead (Nov 14, 2011)

Phoenix_Rebirth said:


> *Question for 2,5 and 8: *
> 1. What's your relationship with power?
> 2. Are you manipulative? If so, how?
> 3. Do you trust people?
> ...


1. Power is more about having control over myself and my life and feeling connected to everything around me, rather than having to do with power and others. I feel like I get fleeting feelings of that kind of power and its very refreshing but sometimes a bit scary.

2. I don't like manipulation and can easily spot it, but I also know that sometimes I can be manipulative in subtle ways. I can figure people out fairly well and I might know how to get certain things from them without asking - like from my parents or my partner. But never with anything big - more like if I want my boyfriend to pick me up takeout or something.

3. Yes, I do. I just don't trust ALL people. I rarely get into relationships that are in depth so I rarely have to share much of myself - when I don't share much of myself I almost feel like trust isn't part of the equation. When I truly open up and trust someone I have to be pretty damn comfortable with them - usually it's almost an instant connection.

4. Yes, I do, even if it's in a very disconnected way. I've been partnered for 4 years and have really merged in a 9-ish way with my boyfriend and I can't imagine not having him in my life. But even with my close friends and family - I might not need to see them often, or even see them at all if we have email contact. But I do need them - I get support from them in my own way.


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

Aha, some interesting questions.



Phoenix_Rebirth said:


> *Question for 2,5 and 8: *
> 1. What's your relationship with power?


I seek it, decidedly, over myself, and my own circumstance. I want to be in control, or at least capable of being so.

I don't traditionally seek it over others, but I won't deny it if it's warranted.



> 2. Are you manipulative? If so, how?


I have been known to put people off, or put doing things with people off, and it is a form of 'manipulation' - allows me to retain distance and control. I do not, however, manipulate with direct or malicious intent.



> 3. Do you trust people?


I trust people at different levels depending on what I see from them. Impersonal trust is not too difficult, and there's enough I consider impersonal to form bonds with people without being overwhelmed with trust issues, but personal trust will come only after true attachment, which takes awhile and some effort to achieve. Rarely will I feel attached to someone, enough to be personally trusting, without a long time to get used to the idea, or our relationship itself, or without significant thought.



> 4. Do you really need people? : P


Realistically, yes. I don't have the capability to produce everything required to sustain my life.

Personally, I'd like to say no, but again the answer is a reluctant yes. Some of my best friends in life have been books, and books are written by people. However, as for people in real-time, having a meaningful relationship is a surplus in life, not a direct necessity - I can sustain myself alone, and have.


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## meridannight (Nov 23, 2012)

Eideticus said:


> 8s:
> ~ What does fear mean to you? How do you experience it What are you really afraid of?
> ~ What does commitment in a relationship mean to you?



1. i don't know that i feel fear. in a dangerous situation i feel the associated adrenaline rush which is intense enough to overpower everything else that might be going on at that moment. either i don't feel fear, or it just gets swallowed up by that, but it doesn't register consciously. and i'm not afraid of anything. 
i grew up in the countryside and near my home there were woods that had wolves, foxes, bears and wild boars in them. i was 5 years old and i roamed those woods alone well-aware that if i happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time i'd be finished. then i was scared. but i did it anyway. and bit by bit i started feeling less scared until i just no longer felt it at all. also some of my friends had pretty aggressive dogs. they looked like they would eat a person if given a chance. what did i do? i walked right into their territory, some of those dogs i actually went to pet. everybody told me not to go near them, but again i did it anyway. it was like a sort of dare to myself. i only got bitten by one of those damn dogs, and that one was a really mad one too. this is stuff that happened in my childhood, back when i was 5-13 years old. point of all this is, that it's sort of made me immune to fear. i mean when you defeat a fear of getting mauled by a wild animal as a kid, there's not gonna be much left that can evoke fear in you after that. at least not at the level of our regular daily life.


2. commitment means i want to share my life with that person. accordingly they become a priority to me. this thing it's not something i decide consciously. it is something that either happens or doesn't happen with a person.


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## goodgracesbadinfluence (Feb 28, 2011)

*Responding as a 4*



suicidal_orange said:


> *Question for 4s*
> I have read that 4s in their search for the "something missing" can fixate on physical things which are hard to obtain for whatever reason, but on acquiring them interest is lost. Any experience of this?


Yes. In my experience, it’s usually not a physical object I desire. But I would imagine this happens because I am projecting my desire for the intangible onto the tangible, so when I get whatever is tangible, I just end up desiring the thing I originally wanted. I hope that makes sense.


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## Shadowlight (Dec 12, 2012)

Phoenix_Rebirth said:


> *Question for 2,5 and 8: *
> 1. What's your relationship with power?
> 2. Are you manipulative? If so, how?
> 3. Do you trust people?
> ...


Read the tritype description and this thread and you'll understand this tritype. I relate to almost 90% of everything in there except a few things here and there which are probably limitations in experience as opposed to core motivations and fears of the triad. 

The Enneagram Institute Discussion Board - The Triple Rejection Gestalt

1. I want power over myself, my relationships and complete autonomy at work. I think of myself as eventually becoming a master of my destiny. I've also been called a dominant female by other women. I like submissives that I can control and who like being controlled. At work, I take as much work as I possibly can and make the company dependent on me so that I can control the outcomes. I prefer autonomy and my way of getting it is through sheer competence, help and taking initiative in areas that aren't even my responsibility. 

2. Yes. By with-holding myself from them. By with-holding love. By providing for them through my own resources (mental and physical). Since I constantly fear rejection, I counter it by making everything dependent on me so I won't be rejected. Ultimately, by using whatever strength I have through sheer brute force of crashing my mind with theirs. 

3. Initially I trust people, but then over time I realize that I'm merely doing this in order to get close to them and get what _I_ want from them. I use my knowledge to open up their minds but slowly I start making offers of help in areas where they are weak. However, I don't go in with the malicious intent of controlling. All the while I'm constantly fearing rejection in some way or the other so I literally twist and turn within myself finding ways to not be rejected. This is through neglecting my needs, learning about their interests, doing things for them that I may not. However, I also need them to reciprocate. If I start feeling like they're not doing their part in the relationship, I start mistrusting their intent. I start seeing their flaws. My love for them starts converting into hatred. And in that hatred, I start having bigger and bigger fights till one day everything blows up and we part ways. I also pre-empt that a relationship is going to end, so I just walk away without a word. 

4. I don't need people as much as perhaps a core 2 would because I do need a lot of alone time to introspect and make sense of my relationships and the world. However, since the 2 is there, as well as the sx then I do need at least 1 intimate in order to feel secure and I like them to think the best of me and my intentions as well as appreciate me. I love to share my knowledge, ideas and thoughts - even feelings with that person. I unfortunately do end up in situations where since I expect to be rejected, I pre-empt it and pull the trigger unexpectedly. This is one way I control people. Leave them thinking about what happened and why. This was something I wasn't aware that I was doing until I came across the tritype. 

There are positives as well to this triad btw. But then, I already know that I'm posting this last line out of a fear of being rejected for my personal input on the triad, the fact that I might be wrongfully typed, or because this tritype is not considered the most positive of the tritypes. But. 

I am in a good place now in my life and my relationships and adding this knowledge of my weakness and blindspots, I believe I can be a healthier less power-hungry individual. However, I will not give up control where I have no matter what happens. I have this inherent beast inside that wants to burn things down when things start going wrong. 

That said, I'm usually very humble, gentle and easy to get along with. As long as you don't get on my bad side.


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## bearotter (Aug 10, 2012)

1. What's your relationship with power? 

I think someone else said it best - it's everything. 8 core, 5 fix, and kind of 2-like, but not quite 2 image.

2. Are you manipulative? If so, how? 

First, I don't think manipulation to have power over someone is in any way despicable in its own right. I'll say I'm logical, and depending on who I talk to, logical ~ manipulative. I'm a straightforward person, but can only be open/straightforward to those who are so themselves. To others, my words will be coated endlessly; usually this just means, I don't think they're putting in the requisite effort to get what I am really saying, and are satisfied with their perceptions without letting me dissect their perceptions for them...so coated words are all I have for them. This, I find disgusting, but necessary.

3. Do you trust people? 

Not unless they give me reason to, so by default, no. I echo @_Flatlander_ on this, though -- I can have a nice relationship with someone without bringing trust issues into the picture. I'd like to trust people, but it takes mutual desire.

4. Do you really need people?

Not really, they're more harm than good most of the time. However, I treat them as kindly as I possibly can nonetheless. I see true kindness as the ultimate gift. The closest I can say I come to needing people is I think my anger can be converted to kindness, in front of the correct individual. There's a pretty logical way I go about dissecting what such an individual is like, but it's built ultimately on self-understanding.


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## Inguz (Mar 10, 2012)

Sx/So: Do you consider yourself to have a counter-passion (like cp 6), and if so, how is it expressed? I would very much appreciate negative answers too.


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## Shadowlight (Dec 12, 2012)

Inguz said:


> Sx/So: Do you consideryourself to have a counter-passion (like cp 6), and if so, how is ot expressed? I would very much appreciate negative answers too.


I think in the case of me personally, this converts the overall introverted nature into one where I'm more readily able to "ambivert", but ambiversion for specific intimates. 

It's not quite a conflict, but more of a direction of energy towards another person, or a group, or a social setting and then taking back what I experienced in the setting to mull over and make sense of it all in order to extrapolate something meaningful from all of that data I received.

It influences my interests and the way I speak. I believe it less of an inclination to isolate when healthy. 

The best way to describe sx/so for me is through understanding social-psychology:



> Within the context of psychology, social psychology is the scientific study of how people's thoughts, feelings, and behaviors are influenced by the actual, imagined, or implied presence of others.[SUP][1][/SUP][SUP][_page needed_][/SUP] By this definition, _scientific refers to the empirical method of investigation. The terms thoughts, feelings, andbehaviors include all psychological variables that aremeasurable in a human being. The statement that others' presence may be imagined or implied suggests that we are prone to social influence even when no other people are present, such as when watching television, or following internalized cultural norms. Social psychologists typically explain human behavioras a result of the interaction of mental states and immediate social situations. In general, social psychologists have a preference for laboratory-based, empirical findings. Social psychology theories tend to be specific and focused, rather than global and general._


As for weaknesses. I just made that thread on sx/so blindspots where I've given a fair amount of input on what the weaknesses/blindspots are.


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## aconite (Mar 26, 2012)

Inguz said:


> Sx/So: Do you consider yourself to have a counter-passion (like cp 6), and if so, how is it expressed? I would very much appreciate negative answers too.


Yes. I'm Sx/So 4w3. I couldn't find much information on so-called counter-envy 4, but what I found rings very true.

From enneagram.net:
_"With regard to the instinctual subtypes, one intriguing insight to type 4 was the introduction of a rare type of sexual 4 that can be "counter-envious" with 8-like tendencies, which Claudio [Naranjo] described as often appearing "more 8 than an 8." This sexual 4 is in denial of envy, is self-confident, claims position, and knows his or her own worth ("I deserve it"). Moreover, this 4 can be cannibalistic, overstep boundaries, and diminish others to make the self bigger and to prove one right."_

See, I'm a sexual 4 (8 fixed to boot, and everything in my tritype but my core is id). I tend to be in denial of my vulnerable emotions, burning envy and possessiveness, ever-present feeling of inferiority, sensitivity and emotionality most of the time. Recently I learned to get more in touch with that side of me; nevertheless, I've never been one of the brooding, passive, wallowing-in-self-pity Fours. I don't think I'm that sensitive to criticism (unless it's very mean and about something I really value... but everyone is more or less like that, I guess). I need to be seen as strong, independent, self-sufficient - in fact, I was mistyped as 7w8 (which is my head fix and still a very potent influence); the next type I was willing to consider was cp6w7. I can come across as 8-ish, too; I think I don't back down easily, and my anger is very explosive. Quite scary, even.

Nevertheless, being a counter-envy 4 makes me probably quite well-equipped to deal with the outer world - at least more than the standard 4 (I know, there's no such thing as "standard" 4, lol). Having a strong Sx instinct also makes me, I think, more energetic, lusty, driven and volatile. Also, I think I come across as a person with a very inflated ego. I'd rather claw my eyes out than admit to some of my most painful issues; the thing that made type 4 not an option at the beginning was that I never wanted to revel in my shortcomings, real or imaginary. Quite the contrary, I tend to downplay them (that might be 3 wing, I think), deny feeling flawed or comparing myself to others.

Well, I hope you like my answer  I don't know if it's Sx/So specific, maybe it'll be useful if people who can relate, but aren't Sx/So, share their thoughts?


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## Inguz (Mar 10, 2012)

@Shadowlight Hm... The point is to investigate if the Sx instinct, and in particular Sx/So, wants to move against their core fear by adopting a counterpassionate attitude. Can you relate to the following quote?



> *Five: Extravagance*
> The passion of Fives is avarice. The counterpassion is a caricature of the virtue of unselfishness. Then Fives want to appear generous. They will give an enormous amount of information about their subject of interest, holding mini-conferences about almost any situation. Avarice is there, however, because they manage to give this information to people who do not desire it and, thus, inevitably will not understand it or use it. Sometimes Fives unconsciously give subtly incomplete or veiled answers.
> 
> Source: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/content.php/272-Enneagram-Passions-and-Counterpassions


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## Shadowlight (Dec 12, 2012)

Inguz said:


> @_Shadowlight_ Hm... The point is to investigate if the Sx instinct, and in particular Sx/So, wants to move against their core fear by adopting a counterpassionate attitude. Can you relate to the following quote?





> Five: Extravagance
> The passion of Fives is avarice. The counterpassion is a caricature of the virtue of unselfishness. Then Fives want to appear generous. They will give an enormous amount of information about their subject of interest, holding mini-conferences about almost any situation. Avarice is there, however, because they manage to give this information to people who do not desire it and, thus, inevitably will not understand it or use it. Sometimes Fives unconsciously give subtly incomplete or veiled answers.


Apparently so: 

http://personalitycafe.com/type-5-forum-investigator/130108-nurturing-5-a.html#post3288160



Shadowlight said:


> @Nonconsensus - your response was very close to what I was looking for. I also hope there are more respondents. But I think I have a very good idea based on your response.
> 
> In my own case, the 2 has a very strong connection to the 5. My brand of help is sharing of knowledge, articles, ideas and a very thorough analysis of the situation. In many cases, I act as well - but that's mainly when I realize the other person is too weak or has inadequate resources to do it themselves. I find that I value efficiency in my help as well. At times when I've realized that the other person can do it on his/her own (I'm like the mother who teaches her kid to ride a bike and then when the kid's ready, I take off the training wheels) then I back off till I'm needed again. The difference between 2w1 and 2w3 here is very important. For me, helping is a choice (2w1 with an 8-fix), the right thing to do (Tertiary Fi).
> 
> ...


I wrote this considering that it might be a 2-fix. But yes, I actually am very generous with what I know and want to share - especially when healthy. Now that I think about it, I have also shared information with people who knew not how to use it in order to show my expertise. In a way, that was a veiled attempt at making myself seem more knowledgeable to them than I am ... because they wouldn't be able to question it .. Damn.

Not so much when unhealthy and reclusive. When unhealthy, I can hold on to information, myself as well as anything dear to me with a passion. 

Good share. Now I see that it's counter-passion as well as a 2-fix. The wanting reciprocation probably comes from being 2-fixed whereas the giving / sharing of information and knowledge is the counter-passion.


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## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

@Inguz

I'm an Sx/So and I'm not much in denial, as I am simply reluctant to express my vulnerability except to people I trust. I hate being seen as weak, a crybaby, whiny.. which is why I may sometimes overdo it and go to the other extreme, so as to give people the impression that all of this inner drama could not _possibly_ be there - while still wishing they'd see through a little, sigh. I also want to be seen as strong because I don't want to be taken advantage of, but this is mainly due to my past experiences.

Another part of it is this: I insanely admire people who don't complain and instead power through their pain, it's a beautiful thing to witness.. as opposed to someone who just goes and complains every chance they get.


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## The Scorched Earth (May 17, 2010)

Boss said:


> *Type 3:
> *1. In what ways does self-deceit manifest for you? Do you ever feel like a fraud or con artist?
> 2. What forms of validation do you seek?


1. In real life, sometimes it manifests as me appearing more concerned and engaged with people than I actually am. Also I can seem very innocent and virtuous when I most certainly am neither. Sometimes I do feel like a fraud.

2. Validation can be anything from a Like on Facebook or a close friend saying he or she loves me.


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## wisterias (Jul 15, 2012)

*Type 4
*
I actually don't have much to say, I feel like @_kaleidoscope_ took the words right out of my mouth. 



> *1. The vice of Four is described as envy, or longing. What is it that you find yourself longing for, and do you think the process of longing for something/envying someone is sweeter than actually getting what you want?
> *


Longing for something I don't have, almost always in ability/skill. I do the same thing Kaleidoscope mentioned - trying to mimic/take on the traits of others - but I twist them to make them my own. Drawing inspiration from others for art tends to end up this way. While I can see that it's not theirs anymore after I've done that and reinterpreted, remixed it, it doesn't change that the idea originated with them, and results in the same sort of 'fake' or 'not genuine' feeling because it didn't come from me or my imagination first. And yet.. things I draw from my imagination then take on a 'flawed' quality because they are imperfect representations of what I imagined, and never quite 'right' despite my best efforts.

As for which is sweeter - I wouldn't use the word sweet, but I do tend to lose interest in things once I actually get them (and find something else to want.)



> *2. What are your emotions to you? Do you find that negative emotions are as worth exploring and dwelling on as the positive ones?
> *


Almost the same answer as kaleidoscope (again) <<

I do feel negative emotions more intensely, and they do make me feel alive - I, too, cannot settle for inbetweens (they must be extremes); relief from longing eventually leaves me restless and provocative. Similarly, I cannot settle for being an inbetween to someone I have attached strongly to - I must be all or nothing. In a word, I am consuming. ..

So: perhaps it's not so strange. I don't think I consciously trigger negative emotions for their intensity, but it does happen, and it happens enough that it warrants thought that it isn't simply coincidence.



> *3. Do you think there is a way for you to be truly satisfied and free of envy, or will there always be something you crave?
> *


I doubt envy/longing will ever be gone from me, but I could see it happening if I became emotionally healthy enough. Then again,.. I have a habit of wrecking things I have found peace/comfort in - perhaps that ties into the above.

Specifically - this says it nicely:


> I always subconsciously maintain this state of longing. There's a certain masochism that makes me want to prolong this struggle - which is not necessarily something all Fours have, and might be something specific to me. I love not getting what I want, because actually getting my desires fulfilled is bound to ruin things. The object of my fascination slowly begins to lose its appeal. I think that's an SX thing.


Now, kale, this question is where we diverge  w5 vs w3.



> 1. When did you realize that the way in which you see yourself is really that of the "projected image"? How did you deal with this fact?


I don't think I project an image consciously, actually; if anything, I am most unaware of how others see me (but I am hypersensitive to how they receive me, with acceptance or rejection). The self-loathing that's generally described as coming with 4 is more of a subtle and subconscious thing; I accept myself (perhaps the better word is resignation), but at the same time, I recognize I am lacking and longing for something more, implying fault/defect.

I don't think I project an image, so I'm not sure how to answer this question (unless I am and simply don't realize it). I am what I am,.. take it or leave it.

If you asked me to identify myself earlier this year, I would say that I am a composition of my emotions/obsessions at the time.. both of which are ever-fluctuating. Now, I am not so sure.


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## Raichan (Jul 15, 2010)

Raichan said:


> [/B]
> 
> I sometimes envy the stereotype surrounding core type 5s about them being able to articulate better in words than I do *cough* :crazy: But I think I'm able to describe some explanations better at this point. I think recently my deeper understanding of feminism has also transformed some of my views, but I still remain justice oriented.
> 
> ...




''When you work on a personal level towards helping those who are disadvantaged on the basis of gender, class, sexuality, religion, minority culture, race -- you can potentially benefit everyone else in society in terms of the long run. I believe negative discrimination and spreading hateful stereotypes against minority or disadvantaged groups serve to also negatively effect other members in the society, even if not seen on superficial level. '' In short, I should also quote;

*”For many years, feminist peace researchers have been calling attention to the links between the position of women in society and the continued tolerance of social and gender violence and the war system*. They argue that these conditions are not separate phenomena. That they are interrelated, interdependent and reciprocally created” Betty A. Reardon

Forms of oppression and intolerance are always interlinked, and by acknowledging the concerns of disadvantaged groups, the links can be exposed. It's the same logic as 'anti humanity extremists on every opposing end fuel each other'. That is part of my moral point of view.


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## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

@_Catlander_

I'm glad you could relate. I found this part especially interesting:



> I don't think I project an image, so I'm not sure how to answer this question (unless I am and simply don't realize it). *I am what I am .. take it or leave it.*


This is very 5 wing of you. 4w5's don't strive as hard as 4w3's to craft a specific image of themselves, they're more likely to be "This is how I am." Especially with regards to the expression of negative emotions, 4w3's will conceal them and adopt a public/private split whereas 4w5's won't. You know a 4w5 when you see one, whereas a 4w3 can be mistaken for bubblier, more extroverted types. 4w3's especially focus on what they show and try harder to come off a certain way. In fact, an old post reminded me of what you said:



> I think a big difference between a 4w5 and a 4w3 is has to do with image consciousness and how it affects interactions with people. 4w3's seem to tend to filter or censor their "weirdness". They mete it out in small doses and try to focus on expressing the positive aspects of their uniqueness. They are selective in what they show and how they show it.
> 
> 4w5's are much less selective about what they show and more focused on how much they show. If 4w5 is feeling accepted and appreciated they will often be very expressive. If they feel ridiculed, rejected, misunderstood, or persecuted then they tend to withdraw and show very little of their inner selves.


So I'd say you're pretty spot on in how we differ roud:


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## wisterias (Jul 15, 2012)

kaleidoscope said:


> I think a big difference between a 4w5 and a 4w3 is has to do with image consciousness and how it affects interactions with people. 4w3's seem to tend to filter or censor their "weirdness". They mete it out in small doses and try to focus on expressing the positive aspects of their uniqueness. They are selective in what they show and how they show it.
> 4w5's are much less selective about what they show and more focused on *how much *they show. If 4w5 is feeling accepted and appreciated they will often be very expressive. *If they feel ridiculed, rejected, misunderstood, or persecuted then they tend to withdraw and show very little of their inner selves.
> *


Hmm, this is all pretty relevant as I'm seriously considering 4w5 for my core over 5w4. The quote you put up is uncannily accurate, I think, and something that I've observed within myself outside my enneagram studies. And, of course, this helps me understand 4w3s better ^^ so thank you for that.

The problem is when the person I've revealed myself to withdraws or doesn't expres acceptance (because everything I've put out is genuine, so it reads as a rejection of my true self as far as they know); if I've revealed enough, there's nothing sacred left to withdraw/withhold, which is a problem for a triple-withdrawing type xD


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## Vulkan (Jan 13, 2013)

*Answers To OP Type Six Questions*

*Type 6:*

First off, let me say I'm probably a serious case of this, because, well, I value honesty INCREDIBLY. So, number one might be a tad extremist. Now that that's out of the way...

1. We keep hearing about the ominous 6 mistrust. What does it take for you to trust someone? What does it take for someone to lose your trust? And really, how 'suspicious' are you? 
A: Well, it takes a lot for me to trust somebody. I have to know them well, have to know they trust me, have to know they're loyal, have to know they can understand me to an extent, and have to know that they're honest. The last one is my biggest thing. If they're not honest, then I can not trust them a single percent. I HAVE to have honesty to trust somebody. Otherwise, it just won't work. For somebody to lose my trust, really the only way is to abandon me or lie. It's even worse if they lie and don't tell me. If they outright told me they had lied, I would respect them for being brave enough to tell me and still be their "friend", even if I don't trust them. But if they lie and then lie about lying to me, they will completely lose my trust, 100%. And I think I'm fairly suspicious. I believe that inherently people are good, but they lose that natural goodness after a year or two. So, I realize that a lot of people don't make an effort to be good, so I'm usually pretty suspicious of anybody who is "too" good.

2. What does support mean to you? How do you go about acquiring it, if at all?
A: To me, support having somebody who I can trust completely, and can tell anything to. Support to me is a true friend. And I don't really try to "acquire" it. I believe that you can't hunt for those things, or your footsteps will scare it away. They're everywhere, you just have to let them come to you.


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## Doll (Sep 6, 2012)

suicidal_orange said:


> *Question for 4s*
> I have read that 4s in their search for the "something missing" can fixate on physical things which are hard to obtain for whatever reason, but on acquiring them interest is lost. Any experience of this?


Yes, although it isn't always something physical. In fact, it rarely is. It's usually a person or relationship I want to covet, or a skill in something. However, once I've started and feel satisfied with whatever progress I've made, I tend to taper off and go to something else that seems more difficult - or more valuable. I suppose the thrill of the chase, maybe? It's a tendency for me to see what I don't have. And those things I DON'T have are the things I end up wanting... it's a vicious cycle. D:



Kito said:


> *Type 4*
> 
> *1. *The vice of Four is described as envy, or longing. What is it that you find yourself longing for, and do you think the process of longing for something/envying someone is sweeter than actually getting what you want?


 Hee, this is a hard question. Sometimes, for me, the "longing" is romantic. Like pining from afar. Not only can you daydream about your fantasy, but it's a good way to avoid the reality of it. I spend more time longing for things than I do enjoying what I have, so I suppose a part of me does enjoy that more. When I get things I want, I'm happy, but at the same time I'm unable to enjoy that moment for very long. Another part of me must feel as though whatever I've coveted still must be worked for, or is possibly threatened, in order for me to sustain interest in what I've just won. There's a safety in having something that I tend to avoid, a lack of stimulation that frightens me.



> *2. *What are your emotions to you? Do you find that negative emotions are as worth exploring and dwelling on as the positive ones?


For a time, yes. I have to dwell on my emotions, and I don't really consider it dwelling because I don't necessarily do it in sadness. I feel as though if I skim over the negativity in my life then I'm lying to myself - even cheating myself out of those emotional juices. I like to sit in them, languish in them, enjoy their warmth (I know this sounds weird) before I can move on. There's something very raw about emotion that has never been negative to me, necessarily, but true and real and worth understanding. There's pleasure in pain.



> *3. *Do you think there is a way for you to be truly satisfied and free of envy, or will there always be something you crave?


I have moments when I am free of envy, but it is a part of my personality and I know it isn't something I can avoid entirely. I'm just an envious/jealous person. D: However, as long as I don't let it rule my life, I think I can manage so long as I understand the emotion and can handle it whenever it comes up.


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## tympanon (May 1, 2011)

*Answering as type 9*

@_Marlowe_



apple pie said:


> Saved the hardest one for last! (and for after dinner, lol)


Well, that was ONE LONG DINNER I took!!
Something came up and I forgot about this thread later on. I'm sorry about that.

*1. What quality do you think you have that others lack (on a personal and type level)?*

Type:
Nines are usually accepting and slow to judge. We keep an open mind and see many sides of things. 
I think were also less set on fixed behaviour patterns. Different people can bring out many different sides of us. And yet, at the same time we can be very stubborn. When we’ve decided on something it’s extremely hard to convince us otherwise (#shutoutalloposalmode).

Personal:
Well, in my case you’ll get somebody who’s both sensitive, accpeting, intellectual, witty, determined, capable and is still humble about it. 

:crazy:

Uhm. I think the best (and the hardest!) part is possibly the abilty to slow down. Enjoy what you have -for a while- and think/focus on what you would _really_ want next. I’m usually also very good at showing people alternate options.


I’ve got to hand it to you though, it was a hard question :’)


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## Sonny (Oct 14, 2008)

*Come to me 2s!* (disclose your wing and instincts too, pls)

1. What does it feel like to be loved, and what does it feel like when love is no longer there?

2. How do you seek/desire acceptance and approval from others?

3. What are your fears and doubts at the beginning of a new romantic relationship?

4. What causes you to disengage from people?

5. How does pride show up, and in what are you proud?

6. What do you think are the best and worst points of 3s?


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## wisterias (Jul 15, 2012)

*Questions to the 4s:
*


* What level of health (enneagramatically) would you say you are at?

*
*What is your relationship to shame (ie, repressing memories/denying yourself from immersing in feeling it, indulging in it)?

*
*What is your relationship to self-loathing? Do you accept yourself, despite being conscious of your flaws?*


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## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

@_Catlander_

* What level of health (enneagramatically) would you say you are at?*

I'd say I'm pretty average right now. I wouldn't say very healthy, but I'm not unhealthy either.

*What is your relationship to shame (ie, repressing memories/denying yourself from immersing in feeling it, indulging in it)?*

Repressing memories? If anything, I have a hard time letting go of the past. I have a huge tendency to go through past events, dissecting them, observing them closely, rehashing, mulling them over again and again. It's hard for me to stay in the present, I'm either fantasizing about a different reality, or analyzing my past. 

My relationship to shame is not something I can accurate explain, it's so intricately bound with most of my reactions and ways of thinking that it's just hard to take apart and observe individually. A more specific question would be lovely though.

*What is your relationship to self-loathing? Do you accept yourself, despite being conscious of your flaws?*

Basically..



Bumblyjack said:


> Am I broken or am I extraordinary?


I don't hate myself all the time. I don't love myself all the time either. It can fluctuate, depending on lots of things, one of which being how people see me. Another factor is how I see myself, how close I perceive myself to be to my ideal self.


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## wisterias (Jul 15, 2012)

Firstly, thank you, @_kaleidoscope_ ^^ you have no idea how informative and helpful your posts have been, both on and off this thread. 



kaleidoscope said:


> Repressing memories? If anything, I have a hard time letting go of the past. I have a huge tendency to go through past events, dissecting them, observing them closely, rehashing, mulling them over again and again. It's hard for me to stay in the future, I'm either fantasizing about a different reality, or analyzing my past.


Yep, same, absolutely =/ but there comes a point where you have analyzed some memories enough/there is nothing to analyze, just pure shame, that the only thing left that it invokes is a feeling of deep, cringeworthy shame.. I tend to actively avoid remembering those certain memories for that reason, I shut them down when they come up in my mind. I'm not talking about all memories, just the ones that invoke strong shame from how others rejected/reacted.

The things I go through internally tend to feature rejection strongly, though I'm not sure this falls under shame. 



> My relationship to shame is not something I can accurate explain, it's so intricately bound with most of my attitudes and reactions that it's just hard to take apart and observe individually. A more specific question would be lovely though.


Hmm, I see - I'm just recently noticing how much of my behavior is to avoid shame, actually. I don't know what that says haha. 

So.. hm. What happens when you become proud of something? Or you feel you've come closer to your ideal? 



> I don't hate myself all the time. I don't love myself all the time either. It can fluctuate, depending on lots of things, one of which being how people see me. Another factor is how I see myself, how close I perceive myself to be to my ideal self.


What happens when everyone, as far as you know, is seeing you positively and in an accepting way? I think that plays into it :/ 

descriptions of 4s tend to entail a great deal of self-hatred, and I can't relate to that, so I wondered if you could. I have a resigned attitude (I am what I am and I'm stuck with being me), it's not strongly either way.. I don't know if you can relate; it's an odd paradox =/ anxious about how others receive/reject, but at the same time .. I cultivate my isolation.


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## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

@Catlander

You're welcome  I love seeing how the wing can make a difference, IMO it's not a minor influence at all. And as much as I can relate to Fours in general, 4w5's are kinda alien to me. I'm taking this opportunity to get to know this subtype better, and I'm enjoying this immensely.

Oh I can experience _plenty _of shame due to my past experiences. Though again, shame comes mostly from realizing just how pathetic I can be according to my own personal standards. I'm *very *hard on myself when it comes to measuring myself up against this ideal I keep talking about (line to 1). I have a fantasy of the person I could be. Past mistakes and failures only remind me of how flawed I am, and while I hang onto that notion, that identity of longing, I also find myself desperately envying people, wishing I was better. So in that sense, envy and shame are intertwined for me. They're a package deal.

Shame is also a heart triad thing, so keep in mind 2s and 3s also struggle with it. It's mostly with regards to feeling like the REAL you is not someone others will come to love and accept, and so you built an image, a persona in order to receive that attention you crave. It's hardly ever satisfying though, because you know they don't love you for *you*.



> descriptions of 4s tend to entail a great deal of self-hatred, and I can't relate to that, so I wondered if you could.


It's not self-hatred as in "I want to cut myself, I suck so bad". I'm just hardly ever satisfied with who I am. There's always something that's wrong, if only that feeling of something missing in me, something that others have and I don't, hence separating me automatically from them. 

Can you relate to that?


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## wisterias (Jul 15, 2012)

kaleidoscope said:


> You're welcome  I love seeing how the wing can make a difference, IMO it's not a minor influence at all. And as much as I can relate to Fours in general, 4w5's are kinda alien to me. I'm taking this opportunity to get to know this subtype better, and I'm enjoying this immensely.


Haha, well, I'm not 100% sure of being core 4, but I'm more certain of it than I have ever been of any other type 



> Oh I can experience plenty of shame due to my past experiences. Though again, shame comes mostly from realizing just how pathetic I can be according to my own personal standards. I'm very hard on myself when it comes to measuring myself up against this ideal I keep talking about (line to 1). I have a fantasy of the person I could be. Past mistakes and failures only remind me of how flawed I am, and while I hang onto that notion, that identity of longing, I also find myself desperately envying people, wishing I was better. So in that sense, envy and shame are intertwined for me. They're a package deal.


Same - and for me, with admiration comes envy and an upping of my own ideals, sometimes. I wonder if I'm mistaking shame with embarrassment.



> Shame is also a heart triad thing, so keep in mind 2s and 3s also struggle with it. It's mostly with regards to feeling like the REAL you is not someone others will come to love and accept,


Wow, yes! Absolutely ;_; that has played an enormous part in my relations with people in my life.. probably dictated the vast majority of them, doubting if I revealed all of me, if they would accept or reject. 

The feeling and notion of rejection is incredibly intimate to my psyche, considering how I always put my true self out there (again, question of how much is shown), so I'm careful about how much I reveal and always gauging, painstakingly, how they're responding and if it's time to withdraw. Combined with sx/sp and 459, it can become an odd mixture of inching towards them and showing more, while at the same time pulling myself away in anticipation of the rejection to what I'm showing; keeping a foot out the door. The times I've been most healthy, I've placed my sx attentions/energies onto non-persons.

I relate up until this point:



> and so you built an image, a persona in order to receive that attention you crave. It's hardly ever satisfying though, because you know they don't love you for *you*.


For me, it's as was mentioned before - a matter of revealing :/



> It's not self-hatred as in "I want to cut myself, I suck so bad". I'm just hardly ever satisfied with who I am. There's always something that's wrong, if only that feeling of something missing in me, something that others have and I don't, hence separating me automatically from them.
> 
> 
> Can you relate to that?


Defined in that way, yes, I definitely can. Not the depressed 'i want to kill myself I am so awful', but I am very aware of how I fall short; it's very difficult for me to appreciate what I am/already have (it's almost never). It's sort of come to a resigned, passive dissatisfaction :/


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## Sonny (Oct 14, 2008)

mentioning for attention, no pressure though :happy:
@Younique @Loveternity @Lady Lullaby @SenhorFrio @Mr. Meepers @VesperHale



Sonny said:


> *Come to me 2s!* (disclose your wing and instincts too, pls)
> 
> 1. What does it feel like to be loved, and what does it feel like when love is no longer there?
> 
> ...


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

How many of you 4s enjoy being disliked? How many of you feel like it reinforces your sense of superiority and difference? I sure feel that way. Must be the wing.


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## Loveternity (Aug 3, 2011)

Sonny said:


> *Come to me 2s!* (disclose your wing and instincts too, pls)


Signature.



> 1. What does it feel like to be loved, and what does it feel like when love is no longer there?


Man, how do I describe it this time... it feels like you are accepted for who you are, not who others want you to be. Appreciated for everything you have or don't have, virtues and flaws alike. If I had to compare it to another feeling, I guess you could compare it to security. But unlike security, you feel love most when you stop "raising walls" to protect yourself from other people. When you allow them to hurt you. When you know that no matter how much they hurt you, you can take it; because they either love you and never intended to cause you pain, or they did and you love yourself enough to make up for it and be with those who do love you.

I don't know what it feels like when love is no longer there. Upon reflection, I've always been loved. There have been many times that I didn't feel it and it's a horrible feeling. I am always glad to prove myself wrong on that one!



> 2. How do you seek/desire acceptance and approval from others?


By being open, honest. If you keep "raising walls", you may avoid pain, but you're not allowing anyone to see what's behind those walls. Be yourself: it's the easiest and at the same time hardest thing you can be.



> 3. What are your fears and doubts at the beginning of a new romantic relationship?


The same one that is maintained throughout the relationship: that I love so much that there's no way that the other person can match that. It's a fear that has to be constantly fought against and an insecurity that goes away when you know the other person does care.



> 4. What causes you to disengage from people?


I do that when I feel troubled. I don't want to burden anyone with my problems, you see. At the same time, I realize the hypocrisy behind it, because when I know these people love me that they want to help me just as I want to help them and I'm making it harder for them. =P 2s don't like receiving help nearly as much as they want to give it and it's one of those things that I work on and try to improve a lot.



> 5. How does pride show up, and in what are you proud?


Pride would show up when I think of my emotional capacity and how deep my feelings can be. I can get so arrogant behind that train of thought that there are times that I doubt anyone else can envelop themselves in love like I can. I don't think I need to explain the faults behind this, do I? =P



> 6. What do you think are the best and worst points of 3s?


Darn it, you're asking me to describe the type that confuses me most. I struggle to understand them, even though I really want to. I don't think I should answer that question. =X


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## zallla (Oct 11, 2011)

*Questions for Id-types, 3s, 4s, 6s.*

I've got a few questions 

*Id-types*: what is it like to want something, how do you know what you want? I mean, how do you experience the whole thing of wanting something? What if despite trying you don't get what you want?


*Threes*: what makes you feel embarrassed? How easy it is for you to notice and accept it?


*Fours*: if possible, would you change anything in your past? why or why not?


*Sixes*: 1. what things do you trust 100 %, completely? are there any? do you even wish there were? 2. what makes you feel different from other Sixes?


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## wisterias (Jul 15, 2012)

*Answers to @zallla and @Boss on Type 4*



Boss said:


> How many of you 4s enjoy being disliked? How many of you feel like it reinforces your sense of superiority and difference? I sure feel that way. Must be the wing.


I don't know if this was a formal question or not, but I'll answer it the best I can 

I can't say I enjoy having someone dislike me and actively lash out at my flaws (I'm already too aware of how many I have, and discovering more by the day..), but I think it increases my sense of isolation (rather than superiority) and insulates me from the world, in some respects; it allows me to take comfort in that they definitely aren't like me or see the way I do, because of how we disagree, and that, therefore, I am different.



zallla said:


> I've got a few questions
> *Fours*: if possible, would you change anything in your past? why or why not?


I am prone to second-guessing in a 'what if I'd made this other choice' way that makes me think the choice I made perhaps wasn't the right one, that the situation would be better if only I'd made the other choice (grass is greener on the other side). I can wish I hadn't reacted in a certain way, or wish I hadn't said/revealed something - I suppose that does count as regret, as it's longing for the alternative reality. The alternative looks better after I've made the decision. Sometimes if there's no external (that I value) telling me that my choice was good/ok, I will slip into this mode of doubt if the decision was one of emotion/ethics.

E: I just noticed what I said ties into what Kaleidoscope said here.



> Still, my attention is always naturally elsewhere, thinking of how things could be better, or different. I find it hard to remain in the present and enjoy what I have.


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## wisterias (Jul 15, 2012)

*More questions for Type 4:
*
*1) How do you differentiate/separate shame and embarrassment, and humiliation?
*I am finding this question more and more important by the day, and yet not sure what conclusion I'm coming to..  I realize I may have been talking about embarrassment when I said shame in my earlier post, so I need to redefine my terms to something more specific. Any thoughts would be much appreciated.

*2) How does anger/your gut fix manifest in you? What order is it in your tritype, and how does it relate to your 4?
*
*3) Do you believe your MBIT/socionics type has to correlate with your enneagram (4, being an emotional type)?
*I have some thoughts on this, but I want to hear others'.


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## zallla (Oct 11, 2011)

*Question for Unknowns*

Yes, hardly any official Enneagram type but still, as a representative of the Unknown group, I feel we are being left out in this discussion. Plus, I'm just interested!

*Unknown people*, 1. why you're having that label - you really don't know or just don't want to tell your type or what? 2. what types do you relate to? why? 3. what types have you considered as your core type, why? what makes you still unknown (if you indeed don't know)? 4. what type people who know you think you are?


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## meridannight (Nov 23, 2012)

zallla said:


> *Id-types*: what is it like to want something, how do you know what you want? I mean, how do you experience the whole thing of wanting something? What if despite trying you don't get what you want?


this question seems absurd to me. how does one NOT know what one wants? the process is immediate. i always know what i want. always have and always will. there is no intermediate link between the inception of wanting and me knowing it. it's one and the same single thing.

'how do you experience the process of wanting'? it's just there. as natural and effortless as breathing. it differs in the degree of intensity at times, some things i want more intensely than others, but that's pretty much all there is to it. 

i will try _until_ i get what i want. i will try until i die if i have to, until i get what i want. it very rarely happens that a thing is impossible to make happen. the only things falling into the latter category are people, i.e. relationships, sex, etc. there, it's sometimes impossible to get what i want. and nothing happens if i don't get what i want. i'll move on to other things.


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## marckos (May 6, 2011)

zallla said:


> Yes, hardly any official Enneagram type but still, as a representative of the Unknown group, I feel we are being left out in this discussion. Plus, I'm just interested!
> 
> *Unknown people*, 1. why you're having that label - you really don't know or just don't want to tell your type or what? 2. what types do you relate to? why? 3. what types have you considered as your core type, why? what makes you still unknown (if you indeed don't know)? 4. what type people who know you think you are?


*1*- I still need dont know my type, I not really concerned about if other people know my type its just a "meh ._." for me
*2*- 1w9, 3w4, 5w4,6w5 and 8w9
*3*- 1 and 5...even maybe 7
3.1:
*1w9* because since child was concerned to be a good child, not perfect but the better I can. 
*5:* because I was always reclusive private I didnt like to be with other people, I would prefer been alone doing my own thing and been very stubborn, if there was something new I hear about I would search more about it. 
*7:* because is very relate to type 5 and 1 I too have a laid back and "indifferent" approach to life when thing go wrong

3.2 personal growth and self-discovery is not necesary the easiest thing to do, everytime I found something new or something that havent notice about my behaviour.
4- 1,6 or 5


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## Gel E. (Jan 29, 2013)

*More answers based on your questions. Thanks! *



SharkT00th said:


> *
> 
> For Heart Types (2,3,4)
> 1. When did you realize that the way in which you see you're self is really that of the "projected image"? How did you deal with this fact?
> *


*

I realized this when I was reading the description of type 4. It was a depressing read, but very true. It was 97% accurate. I don't want to be like this forever. I hope my tritype would jumble from 459 to 954 or 945, and a healthy one. I hope I said that right!*



zallla said:


> *Fours*: if possible, would you change anything in your past? why or why not?



I always say this to myself and everyone I share my stories with. Too bad past is past! Life is tough (it's already given), it's even tougher for me in my mind and eyes. Some people have it easy. I don't need to be rich, I just want meaningful relationships with anyone, free of fears, pain and sadness. 



wisterias said:


> *Questions to the 4s:
> *
> 
> 
> ...



1. I can say that I am unhealthy. I have depression that evolved to Bipolar 1. It sucks right? I don't have a job because of this. 

2. Shame seems to be a parasite in my body. I hate it but people have ingrained this to me when I was many years younger. Maybe to make me realize my own mistakes. I dislike the fact that I'm swimming in my sea of shame but I've been drowning in it for a long time and I have no life saving device for this. I want to get out of this internal situation!

3. I hate myself! To be honest. I don't know how to love myself since I see myself as very unworthy of everything. I mask it though so no one will be affected with my self hate issues. Deep down, I'm a raging volcano. :angry::sad:




Boss said:


> *How many of you 4s enjoy being disliked? How many of you feel like it reinforces your sense of superiority and difference? I sure feel that way. Must be the wing.*



I can't stand being disliked. It's a negative thing that should not exist. Everyone should learn how to tolerate. However we cannot tolerate enough like some people can, we are all prone to hating someone or something (I have a bit of 9 in me, see signature for my tritype archetype). I really long to belong without being stripped out of my identity that I created for myself.

*More questions for Type 4:

1) How do you differentiate/separate shame and embarrassment, and humiliation?

-->Shame is what I feel that's coming from other people. Their bad remarks obviously, it's all about pushing you down. It happens when you remember those things, mostly what other people have said to you before. Embarrassment is a product of your mistakes, Humiliation is the present form of putting you down and the future product is shame.

2) How does anger/your gut fix manifest in you? What order is it in your tritype, and how does it relate to your 4?

--> My gut is 9w1. It's the last in my tritype. I really have no idea but what makes me angry is when there's something wrong in my "moral codes". One example is homophobic remarks from religious people (I believe in God btw). In my opinion, we are all children of God. We should love one another regardless of your sexual orientation. 

I usually don't react physically when I hear someone dissing my gay friends/gay people I know but deep down, I'm shaking in anger.

3) Do you believe your MBIT/socionics type has to correlate with your enneagram (4, being an emotional type)?

Yes it does. *:shocked:



wisterias said:


> And I'm back again. You guys are gonna get sick of me.
> 
> *Question for 2s, 4s, and 9s:
> *How do you experience integration? (I know, a broad question, sorry)



Good question. I do this as soon as I forget myself and think about joining others/being a part of a group. However, I won't do this all the time. 
*
Thanks, everyone! *


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## zallla (Oct 11, 2011)

Gel E. said:


> Too bad past is past! Life is tough (it's already given), it's even tougher for me in my mind and eyes. Some people have it easy. I don't need to be rich, I just want meaningful relationships with anyone, free of fears, pain and sadness.


Hmm, that's interesting... Would you consider yourself melancholic, can you enjoy pain and sadness? Do you ever feel superiority because you're different from others?


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## Gel E. (Jan 29, 2013)

zallla said:


> Hmm, that's interesting... Would you consider yourself melancholic, can you enjoy pain and sadness? Do you ever feel superiority because you're different from others?


I do consider myself as melancholic (damn depression!) but I really don't enjoy being in pain/being sad since it hurts (obviously). Sometimes I feel superior to others because I believe that my music tastes are better than people around me but when it comes to learning through books or being academically smart, not really. I learn mostly from life experiences.


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## FancyProseStyle (Dec 22, 2012)

*Answers to Type 3*



Boss:3271502 said:


> *
> 
> Type 3:
> *
> ...


I'm a type 8 with a very very strong 3 fix (almost a tie).

Disclaimer: I am speaking solely for myself, if anything I mention is not a type 3 trait and something else altogether, I apologize for my lack of research. 

1. The self deceit does not feel as malicious to me as the name suggests. It is more of just a confusing experience where I feel like I am changing so quickly at all times that who I am is a blur. There is always that tiny nagging feeling of my outwardly actions and even inner feelings being different from "who I really am" but it gets annoying and confusing and shoved to the side after a while. I don't exactly feel like a fraud because I'm not hiding any part of me that I even know how to show. 

2. I want people to see me as successful and influential to more than just my closest friends and family. Important to the world, not just my world. I generally like to receive this validation, but it only feels real when I think I deserve it. I don't appreciate compliments I don't feel for myself (8 quality?). If you're talking about actual form, I like constructive criticism and blunt/not too gushy verbal validation from people who rarely give it.


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## FancyProseStyle (Dec 22, 2012)

*Answers to Type 8*



Eideticus:3272107 said:


> 8s:
> ~ What does fear mean to you? How do you experience it What are you really afraid of?
> ~ What does commitment in a relationship mean to you?


1. Fear is energy. In the actual moment, I feel fear the same as everyone. It is definitely not some big happy thing. However in my daily life if someone asks me the meaning of fear in my life, I totally love it. It's a challenge, it pushes me harder, and it gets me off my butt and away from boredom (7 wing *sheepish grin*). I'm afraid of not accomplishing all my goals in time, letting people down when I have assured them of something I'd do, and injustice being done to anyone. 

2. Commitment is the desire to make your partner happy. If that's there, I think everything else falls into place. I really don't believe that people can't look at other attractive people or watch porn or whatever while in a committed relationship. For the most part it should be unnecessary, but never unacceptable. Human instinct. Also, there should be some level of stability to set a committed relationship apart from infatuation. whether that's an engagement ring, gut feeling, shared values, or something else depends on the relationship.


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## FancyProseStyle (Dec 22, 2012)

*Answer to Body Type (Specifically 8)*



SharkT00th:3284262 said:


> *
> For Body types (8,9,1)
> 1. What causes you to stop taking action and think?
> 2. Describe the relationship you have with you're self (HA!, you didn't see this one coming!).
> ...


*

1. My type 3 fix is super strong so I tend to think a lot anyways. 

2. I love myself. I trust myself more than anyone. I am my first priority. (Sheesh. I sound so cold.)*


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## FancyProseStyle (Dec 22, 2012)

*Type 8 Answer*



Phoenix_Rebirth:3294226 said:


> *Question for 2,5 and 8: *
> 1. What's your relationship with power?
> 2. Are you manipulative? If so, how?
> 3. Do you trust people?
> ...


1. Power is important to achieve my personal goals of making the world a better place. Power is always a better place than no power. I'm not really power hungry, but freedom is a necessity at the bare minimum. 

2. YES. I don't even know when I'm doing it half the time. I don't exactly lie or actively scheme to manipulate, but I usually always have the switch on that makes me twist and bend my words and actions subtly to get exactly what I want. 

3. Certain individuals who I have completely analyzed (very few), yes. Everyone else, no. People as one collective whole, no. 

4. I'm very extroverted, and I do need people to challenge me and bounce ideas off of or even to just energize me. 

Nice questions.


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## FancyProseStyle (Dec 22, 2012)

mushr00m said:


> 3's. State your wing. Whats more important for you to convey, your talents and achievements or your personal characteristics?


Note: Strong 3 fix, but I'm actually an 8.

Wing of 4, personal achievements by far.


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

@FancyProseStyle

Thanks for answering. In future, please use the multi-quote function. Click on the quote+ icon next to reply with a quote, when you see something you'd like to quote and respond to and once you have all the sections selected for each of the posts you're quoting, click "reply to thread". It keeps the thread organized and happens to be easier for you to maneuver.


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## Slimblue (Jan 22, 2013)

Phoenix_Rebirth said:


> *Question for 2,5 and 8: *
> 1. What's your relationship with power?
> 2. Are you manipulative? If so, how?
> 3. Do you trust people?
> ...


*1.)* Power is a recurring dream of mine and one of my favourite dreams. Our relationship can compared to a junkie and his drug of choice. The first time was unbelievable, too good to be true. Too fantastical, to be believable. In fact, he wasn't ready for that at all but now he knows what its like and he is ready. Each time after, he consumes more and more, chasing bigger and better highs. Along with this comes tolerance, with greater highs there comes even greater expectations of himself to make it happen. If these expectations aren't met then he quickly snaps out of it. At some point reality sets in and he says to himself, "Did I or didn't I, I can't seem to remember why, why am I here, what am I doing right now, why am not doing what I should and could be doing right now?" He soon realizes what he should be doing but the fear sets in because he hasn't done anything and absolutely nothing quite like what he had just experienced. He confronts himself "...right now? Yes, I gotta do it, just do it, just fucking do it!" He finally does it, but not all of it. Only as much as he can handle. Just a small amount, no where close to what he had hoped for. More importantly, no where close to what he expected from himself. He says to himself "I finally did it." He then pauses for a moment and slowly allows himself an awkward grin. Thinks to himself "Hmm, that was good, I feel uh... powerful? Yeah, powerful. Damn, what I great feeling."


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## FancyProseStyle (Dec 22, 2012)

Boss said:


> @_FancyProseStyle_
> 
> Thanks for answering. In future, please use the multi-quote function. Click on the quote+ icon next to reply with a quote, when you see something you'd like to quote and respond to and once you have all the sections selected for each of the posts you're quoting, click "reply to thread". It keeps the thread organized and happens to be easier for you to maneuver.


I know, I was on the PerC app which doesn't allow that. I also figured that out about a minute too late *wince*

There needs to be a delete feature so I can stop embarrassing myself.


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

FancyProseStyle said:


> I know, I was on the PerC app which doesn't allow that. I also figured that out about a minute too late *wince*
> 
> There needs to be a delete feature so I can stop embarrassing myself.


Oh no lol. You have not embarrassed yourself lol. That was a general point.


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## voicetrocity (Mar 31, 2012)

*Question for 2,5 and 8: 
*
Holy sh*T! Questions directed at my tritype. 


*1. What's your relationship with power?* I don't believe I have any particular relationship with power. I honestly prefer not to think about it. 
*2. Are you manipulative? If so, how?* Yes, in the way most people are. I raise my voice to be heard, offer my opinion(s), I give, I take. I do what feels right to me. 
*3. Do you trust people?* I suppose so, but there's always that knowledge that humans are, well, humans and will do whatever they please with the information I dish out. Even then, it's not so much that I don't trust others to not share what I divulge (I know they will), it's more the concern of others reactions and my having to deal with them. I've been the recipient of some pretty awkward situations due to medical problems. All of a sudden, people I didn't even know personally knew that I had a surgery or was getting treatment for whatever. I don't really care that people know things, but I just don't want to know that they know. Anyways, I'm rambling now; I trust human nature more than individuals, and I try to keep myself in a position to never be surprised by it. 
*4. Do you really need people?* No, and that's what annoys me so much. I know I don't NEED people; but, truth be told, I kind of like them. I like chatting, gaining information I like seeing the differences, intricacies of people. I know my life would be horribly dull without all of that (and thus, why I'm posting on an internet forum).


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## Sonny (Oct 14, 2008)

wisterias said:


> *Question for 2s, 4s, and 9s:
> *How do you experience integration? (I know, a broad question, sorry)


I do stuff.

Basically that's it.

Productivity. 

/helpful


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## bromide (Nov 28, 2011)

Questions for 9s:

1. How do you deal with negative emotions that you can't shut off, such as fear or grief or rage?
2. I've read that 9s suffer from a lack of inertia. How do you experience this, and how do you pull yourself out of it?
3. I have several 9s in my life who are awesome people, but I've noticed that they get passive-aggressive when they're angry. Is this one of your issues too? If so, how would you like someone to respond when you're acting passive-aggressively? 


Questions for 1s:

1. What is your relationship with passion?
2. How do you respond when people bring up subjects that are uncomfortable for you?
3. On that note, what is your comfort level in talking with the people close to you about experiences that you've found emotionally intense or revealing?


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## Sonny (Oct 14, 2008)

bromide said:


> Questions for 9s:
> 
> 1. How do you deal with negative emotions that you can't shut off, such as fear or grief or rage?


They dissipate. Fear and grief and any other negative emotion minus anger/rage tend to fade into the background over time, if they cannot be rationalised and understood then overcome. They can be numbed and/or avoided. Life can be blurry around the edges for me, extremes can fold into a more even feel. The other aspect is as a positive type I much prefer to focus on the positive so not allowing fear/grief to get in isn't always avoidance, sometimes it just feels pointless and I'd rather see the good in a situation.

Anger/rage is in it's own category, it is always there, under the surface feeling invisible most of the time, I know it's there because of all I've read and introspected on, however I don't feel it most of the time it's more of an intellectual and historical awareness. Anger is therefore normally "shut off", when it comes to the surface it is momentarily invigorating, followed quickly by uncomfortable and feelings of not being allowed to feel this way. I struggle to "feel" a right to have anger, it's taking time and constant introspection as to the reasons for any anger to accept that I do. 

So it's typically more of a simmer -> outburst (not to others) -> second guessing myself, seeing others feelings as more valid -> guilt/self anger at being angry -> suppression to simmer again -> happy face.



> 2. I've read that 9s suffer from a lack of inertia. How do you experience this, and how do you pull yourself out of it?


I relate to how Naranjo puts is as "psychological laziness" or "spiritual inertia" more than physical inertia. It's complacency. Pulling oneself out of it can only be done though not wanting to take action, but taking it anyway. Movement stops inertia.

The reasons are here: Newtons laws of motion



> 3. I have several 9s in my life who are awesome people, but I've noticed that they get passive-aggressive when they're angry. Is this one of your issues too? If so, how would you like someone to respond when you're acting passive-aggressively?


I am hyper aware of passive aggressiveness and my desire to _not_ be that way, it results in two things: Either I get assertive and put clear boundaries out sooner when issues arise, or if I leave it too late and anger surfaces, I intellectualise it and ultimately end up either swallowing it or taking steps that probably seem very awkward as I'm trying so hard not to be passive aggressive yet am feeling anger and the above cycle of doubting my right to anger is going on at the same time, so yeah. It sucks.

Passive aggressiveness tends to rise when I feel ignored, like my opinions/needs/wants are irrelevant and not counted. So check in with your friends, make sure they actually want what is happening and are not just going on as a point of no resistance.


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## SuperDevastation (Jun 7, 2010)

Which tritype is more logical/headstrong? 4w5 (elements of 3)/1wX/6w5 sp/sx, or 8w9 (elements of 7)/5w6/4w5 sx/sp?


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## Dark Romantic (Dec 27, 2011)

Phoenix_Rebirth said:


> *Question for 2,5 and 8: *
> 1. What's your relationship with power?


I love it. I recognize the value in having power, and I do not like the squeamish hypocrisy present in our society regarding it. Everyone, consciously or unconsciously, seeks power over their environment; to deny this urge is to deny a fundamental part of being alive. Having power and seeking it is a vastly superior option to wallowing in and glorifying passivity and weakness. In the past, I used to dream of gaining power over a large group of people; now, I am more concerned with my personal autonomy than in controlling anyone else. I already know I have the power to change my circumstances and reality, what I'm more concerned with is giving myself room to act freely. Regardless, I am very much a power seeker and instinctively understand how to gain it in most, if not all situations.



> 2. Are you manipulative? If so, how?


God, yes, in a variety of ways, which many times I'm not aware of until after the fact. When I want something, I usually see the people around me as tools or pieces on a chessboard, and I say what I must to move them where and how I want them to get what I want. It's both expedient and fun; I do quite like seeing a plan come together, just as predicted. :wink: It's a strange contrast within my personality, as I'm also quite frank and straightforward; I'd be a lot happier if everyone just did what I told them, but there are some things you can't force people to do without wasting a lot of your time and energy.



> 3. Do you trust people?


No, I have major difficulty trusting people. I'll trust people to a certain extent if I understand their motivations and what they're about, but I don't expect people to go against their self interest for me, so I try not to place myself in situations where this is necessary for me without a means to make it worth their while (either through positive or negative means).



> 4. Do you really need people? : P


No, not really; despite being quite the extrovert, I'm also a HUGE loner at heart. I recognize that for some activities, people are necessary, so to that extent, I recognize the utility in having them around, and I do quite like to interact with intelligent people with fresh perspectives and experience, so I wouldn't say I dislike people entirely, but I wouldn't call it a need, as I also love my solitude and solo pursuits. I suppose if it really is a basic human need (I think it's a variable continuum, that different people lie in different points of, with people able to shift their position over the course of their lives), then I'm less aware of the degree to which I do need people in an emotional sense; I do recognize a minimal need, of course.


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## Jewl (Feb 28, 2012)

zallla said:


> *Sixes*: 1. what things do you trust 100 %, completely? are there any? do you even wish there were? 2. what makes you feel different from other Sixes?


Saw this question just now. And sorry if this is a bit ramble-y. It's just that this is a really good question, and it's one I've been thinking about recently. 

1.) I'm pretty sure Sixes more than any type have a heck of a hard time trusting something. I think we're kind of inclined to always see that possibility of some other thing. To be honest, a lot of the time it feels like surety is a thing that doesn't exist. Despite being a Christian myself, I tend to think like a skeptic and I behave more like an agnostic, haha. Sometimes when I'm feeling really doubtful I can get super nihilistic too. "What if...?" is a big question for me. 

In any given situation, there's always a chance that something isn't going to go as you think it will. There is also always a chance that maybe you're not perceiving something right. There's a million "Could Be"s and variables in life. And stuff isn't static, there's not an unchangeable thing in this world, and so there's always the chance that the thing you thought was rock solid just isn't. I like certainty. I want to be 100% sure that the thing I think is solid is actually solid. But it's really like my brain doesn't allow myself to think that way. 100% is an impossibility. It seems like I always allow myself room to doubt. 

So it's like I search for certainty and I want it, but I'm too scared and doubting to even give myself that option. I think Sixes can easily get trapped like this. We want nothing more than some map or some set of rules or some absolute fail-safe thing, but even if we encounter those things we doubt them and end up missing what might have helped us. Just a theory of mine. The dilemma is Six isn't that we can't find a certain thing, it's that we're too doubtful and unwilling to trust it when we're presented with it. 

I've read that the holy idea of Six is "faith". I agree. I can either allow myself to say in what I now call "Ever-Questioning Land" or actually trust myself, follow where reasons and common sense guides me, and gain confidence through that. 

So here is what I am 100% certain about: that "absolutely" doesn't just mean "99%" of the time but it means, "Without fail. Always. For sure." And for a Six, that's a rather hard conclusion to come to. 

2.) What makes me feel different from other Sixes? 

Well, at least here on PerC, I feel like the epitome of Phobic.  I am a Six that suffers from "softness" more than "toughness". More "running away" than "fighting". Weakness is a problem for me. I feel like in me, the fear that motivates Six is more apparent and that is something I am ashamed of. I also feel kind of naive in comparison to others around here. Maybe somewhat because of my age. But sometimes I feel like I see things more optimistically than my fellow Sixes. 

And in some ways, I feel like despite my struggles with doubt (this will always be my struggle in life, and I'll always have to guard myself against this), it gets easier to trust. 

Also, this might be silly, but it stands out to me -- I'm religious. XD I know, silly. But most Sixes I've met are atheists or agnostics. Seriously.  Even away from virtual reality. But trust me, fellow Sixes, the term "organized religion" grates me as does "power-hungry church". Maybe because I'm surrounded by a more secular culture, but I don't like the words "belief system" either. All of those things begin to remind me of brainwashing. So I have this weird knee-jerk, "I defy the system!" attitude while being a Christian. I feel extremely contradictory, really.


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## zallla (Oct 11, 2011)

Thanks, @Julia Bell!  A few things came into my mind while I read your reply. No idea of others but I don't think you seem naive. You do seem to have certain lightness and positivism but I'd differentiate those from being naive. And what's silly about being religious? I'm definitely unorthodox but I still consider myself religious because I believe there is a greater power (in the beginning, something had to be), that EVERYTHING has a deeper meaning (IMO, there are no coincidences) and that everyone could have more awareness of all that. The only thing I find silly in religions is that people become too blind and don't think themselves but believe everything the source X (whatever that is for them) says and then the worldview of the whole group becomes so, so narrow that they refuse to consider other views and begin to discriminate other people and eventually end up in wars while their original goal was something different.


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