# How do you experience Ni?



## KalimofDaybreak (Aug 6, 2015)

Hi.
One thing that's always fascinated me about cognition, specifically personality theory/Carl Jung in general, is how introverted intuition works. Maybe it's because it's my dominant function, maybe I'm just following the internet hype train about, but I'm often curious as to how other people experience it. So, Ni. Discuss. Tell me how you experience (I think use may be the wrong word when talking about Ni ) it and how it affects your mind and life.


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## Raawx (Oct 9, 2013)

KalimofDaybreak said:


> Hi.
> One thing that's always fascinated me about cognition, specifically personality theory/Carl Jung in general, is how introverted intuition works. Maybe it's because it's my dominant function, maybe I'm just following the internet hype train about, but I'm often curious as to how other people experience it. So, Ni. Discuss. Tell me how you experience (I think use may be the wrong word when talking about Ni ) it and how it affects your mind and life.


How do you use it?


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## Apple Pine (Nov 27, 2014)

@KalimofDaybreak

I am ultra, super picky at clothes shop.


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## KalimofDaybreak (Aug 6, 2015)

Raawx said:


> How do you use it?


For me, at least, Ni is a very unconscious thing. When I was younger I always thought that I made up answers to questions on the spot, like if someone asked how I felt about something or what my opinion was I'd just spit out whatever came to mind first. For the longest time I thought I was just making things up, but eventually I realized that the long amounts of time I'd spend off in my inner world was time spent thinking basically anything that came to mind. I did this enough that I usually wouldn't be making up an answer if I was asked for one; I'd already conceived the possibility in my own mind and come up with a decent solution ahead of time. Even now it's not something that I'm consciously aware of, more like a process I know is happening whenever I go into my 'zen mode' but not something I actively take part in. That's one thing I always found odd between INTJs and INFJs. The former seem to have this instinctual ability to project their intuition long into the future and come up with plans and objectives and then make those things happen. INFJs seem to be much more passive in that sense, that we just observe what our intuition does and deal with the psychic material purely inside ourselves, and only once we find something that for whatever reason suits us, _then we try to achieve that.

Sorry, that was pretty long-winded and mind-vomity. This is a topic I'm still not clear on and whenever I try to talk about Ni my thoughts just kind of spill out.

EDIT: Another thing I forgot. Often times I find myself playing out potential situations in my head as if they were in real time. Like if I know I'm going to argue with someone I'll imagine the conversation in my head and subconsciously try to figure out what I'm going to say. This is the probably when I'm most conscious of my Ni. Like zosio913 said, it's really an unconscious thing and really hard to explain._


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## KalimofDaybreak (Aug 6, 2015)

woogiefox said:


> @KalimofDaybreak
> 
> I am ultra, super picky at clothes shop.


Is that an Se thing, or how is that Ni? (Honest curiosity, I've never heard that experience associated with Ni.)


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## Zosio (Mar 17, 2015)

More recently I've been using it for idea synthesis; taking two seemingly paradoxical ideas and merging them so that they fit into my "big picture". Unfortunately, I can't be more specific than that. Ideas that are spawned from introverted intuition are seldom explained for a reason. They are typically abstract, complicated, and nearly nonsensical to someone who can somehow peek at them from the outside. 

I felt my Ni working quite a lot when I studied the book of Ecclesiastes. Even if you aren't into Judeo-Christian teachings, Ecclesiastes is an incredibly fascinating read for Ni-dominants (I personally believe that the author -- if it was indeed Solomon -- was an INTJ). Ni is strewn throughout the entire thing... probably why it isn't so popular in our modern, S-dominated culture.


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## reptilian (Aug 5, 2014)

Daydreaming seems like Ni to me. Creating a false reality to pass time, cant control it though and I doubt thats just pure Ni. Ni might be just the basic attitude that Ne is created from for me or/and the interpretations of how reality works to make sense of it on a conscious level...

I dont know how my psyche interacts, so this would just be a guess.


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## KalimofDaybreak (Aug 6, 2015)

I definitely know the feeling of not making sense. I rarely think in words when I'm in that zen mode I talked about. Ideas are a lot less concrete and more like streams of...stuff...that make sense in our heads but are impossible to explain outside because our language literally cannot. Does that sound right?

Also, if you could explain that synthesis of ideas more, that would be fascinating (I understand if you can't). I've rarely used mine that way and I'd like to heard what it's like from another INFJ.


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## KalimofDaybreak (Aug 6, 2015)

As I understand it, the difference between Ni and Ne is subjective vs. objective. Ni is more concerned with connecting and synthesizing subjective data: personal experiences, feelings, thoughts, etc. into one whole. In INTJs this is usually their emotions (since Fi is tertiary their inner world is surprisingly emotional) and in INFJs this is usually their thoughts (Ti). Ne, on the other hand, is less concerned with subjective experience (since they see the subject as unreliable) and prefer to make connections with concrete facts. Ni says, "this table is made of oak, which reminds me of this one time I was with another group of people around an oak table and I didn't hate that, so maybe this means I won't hate these people because I didn't hate those people then"--the object leads to a comparison of subjective experience. Ne, then, says, "this table is made of oak, and this cabin we're in is located off in the woods quite a ways, so it stands to reason that this table could have been crafted from wood in the forest. But it couldn't have been, because this is near a national forest, so maybe these people actually _did_ make it from the forest, and they knowingly broke the law about cutting down trees in a national forest, so maybe these people are actually on a wanted list some where for grand-theft-arbor, and now I've fallen in with them. That means that if the police show up and we're all with them they'll think we're all tree thieves and--" and so on and so on. It's concerned is the objective fact that the table is made of oak and the possibilities that could arise from there. In practice, I guess that means that all N types are very daydreamy (neither of the aforementioned examples took place in reality or real time), but the nature of our daydreams is totally different.

Watch Michael Pierce and John Barnes' videos on YouTube for a better explanation of all that.


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## Determined mind (Jul 31, 2015)

KalimofDaybreak said:


> Hi.
> One thing that's always fascinated me about cognition, specifically personality theory/Carl Jung in general, is how introverted intuition works. Maybe it's because it's my dominant function, maybe I'm just following the internet hype train about, but I'm often curious as to how other people experience it. So, Ni. Discuss. Tell me how you experience (I think use may be the wrong word when talking about Ni ) it and how it affects your mind and life.



How do I experience Ni ? (at least INTJ version of Ni) 




In short:




When I on regual basis see the outcomes before they happen. Some times long before they happen. 

When most of my life is spent on preparing for the future. 

When I insist that I understand the whole picture. Past, present and future. 

When I play with long term trends in order to realize where in space and time those trends will meet/clash. 

When I am bothered by events that are vastly outside of my life span. 

When I knew more about the universe at the age of 5 than the average person knows in adult age. 

When all the time I have this though bubbles coming out of my unconciousness. Offering me solutions that I could not figure on the spot. 

When I in a matter of sconds determine the best path out of 30 scenarios. (xNxPs do not believe me regarding this). 

When I redefine term or I am redefining term based on circumstances. (If it is in position A than it has X effect but if it is in position B then it has Y effect). Si and Ti users usually hate when I do this. 

When I get exausted from extensive brain usage even if from the outside it looks as if I am wasting time. 

When I can completely space out and ignore environment completely. 

When I completely take away the feeling of journey from people by defining the desired/probable outcome. 

When my speech patterns and usage of words most people describe as "strange". Not wrong just strange. 

When people see me as the elder/prophet on the group and come to me for opinion on regular basis. 

When I believe that everthing can be explained in more complex manner but there is just no enough time for that. 

When I am careful regarding safety becuse you have a mission to accomplish and I do not want to compromise it with pointless mistakes and stuff I do not care. 

When people see me as very talented but stubborn. (since they do not see what I do) 

When I cut off details in order to make point of the story much more obvious. 

When I make the classification of scenarios of how the human history may end. 

When I finish peoples sentences with great precision. 

When I can seen nothing but how to get to the goals from your current position. 

When I hide dark and morbid side of yourself even if I like it very much. Giving the other people feeling that they know me well. 

When I am certain that the ends simply have to justify the means if progress were to be made. 

When there are two parallel thinking processes in me, one is focused on environmet and the other is focused on doing something completely unrelated to the current events.


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## gfuzzy (Mar 26, 2015)

acurately described in "this table is made of oak, which reminds me of this one time I was with another group of people around an oak table and I didn't hate that, so maybe this means I won't hate these people because I didn't hate those people then". i constantly think that way! and usually end up making decisions based on these subjective assumptions. yeah, people call me irrational.


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## Blue Soul (Mar 14, 2015)

woogiefox said:


> @KalimofDaybreak
> 
> I am ultra, super picky at clothes shop.


I am with you on this one.

@KalimofDaybreak What I tend to do about every 10 minutes is watch a movie in my head of a potential flow of a direction my (or someone else's) life might take if I take a certain decision. My current summer job is very Si, all routine, "movie watching" doesn't exactly help keeping on track.


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## Apple Pine (Nov 27, 2014)

KalimofDaybreak said:


> Is that an Se thing, or how is that Ni? (Honest curiosity, I've never heard that experience associated with Ni.)


Both. I care way too much about the possible meaning of ornaments on them. I don't want others to judge me negatively based on what they see, as I am quite image-oriented.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

jkp said:


> Daydreaming seems like Ni to me. Creating a false reality to pass time, cant control it though and I doubt thats just pure Ni. Ni might be just the basic attitude that Ne is created from for me or/and the interpretations of how reality works to make sense of it on a conscious level...
> 
> I dont know how my psyche interacts, so this would just be a guess.


Jung explicitly writes that daydreaming is a cognitive activity not related to the functions. I don't daydream but I am definitely an Ni dom.



gfuzzy said:


> acurately described in "this table is made of oak, which reminds me of this one time I was with another group of people around an oak table and I didn't hate that, so maybe this means I won't hate these people because I didn't hate those people then". i constantly think that way! and usually end up making decisions based on these subjective assumptions. yeah, people call me irrational.


Honestly, this sounds more like Si with a feeling function than it does Ni. Ni detaches itself from actual physical experience and reality. For example, if I were to describe my current emotional state, I may write it as something like; I experience it as a dead, decrepit kind of place. Empty, dried and parched up. There isn't much life to be found here, and hasn't been in a long time. It's not per se a desert, but it's more of a very dry wasteland with no real life in sight. You can see the dust moving around in the wind, a single tree without leaves here and there, maybe a fallen over dried up tree trunk, some yellow and very sharp and dry grass. However, lately, I've experienced a lot of life growing inside. Not so much in terms of rainfall, but the dried up river that flew through it is suddenly beginning to flow again and with it, it brings life too. The grass isn't just yellow and dead anymore, but it's beginning to grow and cover the wasteland in a green cover. Green moss is growing on those dead tree trunks and leaf sprouts are growing on the trees and so on. 

This is more Ni because it has nothing to do with physical reality as I experience or has experienced it. Different Ni types will conceptualize their reality through Ni differently. What they all share and have in common is how there is a subjective vision of reality and what is described is not related to any actual physical observation one can make in the past, present or even necessarily the future.


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## Grandalf (Jun 7, 2014)

I see it like tossing a bunch of legos into a washing machine: watch them turn into various combos and see the combos as pieces to something bigger which in turn are part of something even larger. The point of this centralization is to solve a problem with a list of requirements (speed, efficiency, comfort, multitasking, etc.) and seeing something fulfill said one of these (peregrine falcon can reach speeds of over 200 mph) makes me include and adapt those aspects into what I'm trying to make.


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## reptilian (Aug 5, 2014)

Entropic said:


> Jung explicitly writes that daydreaming is a cognitive activity not related to the functions. I don't daydream but I am definitely an Ni dom.
> 
> 
> This is more Ni because it has nothing to do with physical reality as I experience or has experienced it. Different Ni types will conceptualize their reality through Ni differently. What they all share and have in common is how there is a subjective vision of reality and what is described is not related to any actual physical observation one can make in the past, present or even necessarily the future.





> Daydreaming is a short-term detachment from one's immediate surroundings, during which a person's contact with reality is blurred and partially substituted by a visionary fantasy, especially one of happy, pleasant thoughts, hopes or ambitions, imagined as coming to pass, and experienced while awake.


 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daydream

So do you agree with Jung or not? Or did I just misinterpret your personal description of being similar to a daydreaming effect?


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## Baphomet (Apr 20, 2015)

KalimofDaybreak said:


> As I understand it, the difference between Ni and Ne is subjective vs. objective. Ni is more concerned with connecting and synthesizing subjective data: personal experiences, feelings, thoughts, etc. into one whole. In INTJs this is usually their emotions (since Fi is tertiary their inner world is surprisingly emotional) and in INFJs this is usually their thoughts (Ti). Ne, on the other hand, is less concerned with subjective experience (since they see the subject as unreliable) and prefer to make connections with concrete facts. Ni says, "this table is made of oak, which reminds me of this one time I was with another group of people around an oak table and I didn't hate that, so maybe this means I won't hate these people because I didn't hate those people then"--the object leads to a comparison of subjective experience. Ne, then, says, "this table is made of oak, and this cabin we're in is located off in the woods quite a ways, so it stands to reason that this table could have been crafted from wood in the forest. But it couldn't have been, because this is near a national forest, so maybe these people actually _did_ make it from the forest, and they knowingly broke the law about cutting down trees in a national forest, so maybe these people are actually on a wanted list some where for grand-theft-arbor, and now I've fallen in with them. That means that if the police show up and we're all with them they'll think we're all tree thieves and--" and so on and so on. It's concerned is the objective fact that the table is made of oak and the possibilities that could arise from there. In practice, I guess that means that all N types are very daydreamy (neither of the aforementioned examples took place in reality or real time), but the nature of our daydreams is totally different.
> 
> Watch Michael Pierce and John Barnes' videos on YouTube for a better explanation of all that.


WOW Just had a real 'last piece of a puzzle' feeling omg thanks a lot that explanation with the examples made it so clear. For the longest I have always felt kind of iffy about differentiating between Ne and Ni, like I had several different ways of thinking of them differently but it never really came together as a complete understanding until now, everything just clicked, I think this is also how Ni works aswell xD but thanks a lot


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

jkp said:


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daydream
> 
> So do you agree with Jung or not? Or did I just misinterpret your personal description of being similar to a daydreaming effect?


I agree with Jung and that daydreaming isn't related to what Ni really is. You should really read up on it. Linking to Wikipedia about daydreaming doesn't say anything about how Ni works. My interpretation isn't daydreaming but a subjective metaphor to describe my perception of myself. Daydreaming is an active imagining of living into alternative realities or events that don't exist as a means to cope with one's current situation eg imagining what to do if you won the lottery. I don't do this because I don't daydream. What I wrote isn't daydreaming. The final sentence of the quote you offered is exactly how Ni differs from daydreaming. Daydreaming is concrete and literal; Ni isn't.


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## reptilian (Aug 5, 2014)

@Entropic

I have not found anything online about Jungs thoughts on daydream, he does make up a term Active imagination which may resemble daydream. I would say daydreaming has everything to do with cognitive functions, it is after all an internal monolog with imagery of one's psyche interacting.

I will agree Ni is not daydreaming but that does not imply necessarily mean daydreaming isnt a partially manifestation of unconscious or conscious Ni. Daydreaming is the same process of imagining things as, if you were to imagine how a motor works in your head or at least how you imagine it. The attitude of daydreaming does not imply the necessity of concrete or motive driven thoughts.

Im not going into exploring your statement that you dont daydream but I must admit it weirds me out, if I were to believe that, especially for a Ni user.

Yes Ni isnt literal, yet it can never be consciously imagined as a pure independent form, it is always under control by Pe input of the object.

And to quote a bit of jung:


> ...introverted intuition, when given the priority, also produces a peculiar type of man, viz. the mystical dreamer and seer on the one hand. ...Intensification of intuition naturally often results in an extraordinary aloofness of the individual from tangible reality; he may even become a complete enigma to his own immediate circle





> ...introverted intuition perceives all the background processes of consciousness with almost the same distinctness as extraverted sensation senses outer objects.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

jkp said:


> @Entropic
> 
> I have not found anything online about Jungs thoughts on daydream, he does make up a term Active imagination which may resemble daydream. I would say daydreaming has everything to do with cognitive functions, it is after all an internal monolog with imagery of one's psyche interacting.


Except Jung still makes the claim that it is a separate process. It is a type of cognitive activity, yes, but not the kinds of activity that the functions form. The functions are more modes of perception and how you take in information and conceptualize the world around you. They are much bigger and broad and play greater roles in how a person chooses to take action in the world. Daydreaming are nothing of the sort. 



> I will agree Ni is not daydreaming but that does not imply necessarily mean daydreaming isnt a partially manifestation of unconscious or conscious Ni.


But see, again, that makes no sense if you consider that I don't daydream and I'm definitely an Ni dom. That is data that strongly contradicts your claim and it makes zero sense to assert that there is still a correlation if there is data contradicting that correlation. 



> Daydreaming is the same process of imagining things as, if you were to imagine how a motor works in your head or at least how you imagine it. The attitude of daydreaming does not imply the necessity of concrete or motive driven thoughts.


Concrete in the colloquial, literal sense? No. Concrete in the Jungian sense? Yes. The reason why I call it concrete here is because you are envisioning actual objects and actual qualities of the object world. That makes it very much a concrete kind of activity. Even if you are thinking about a fantasy world that you made up in your head e.g. a knight fighting a dragon, that is still concrete thinking because the objects present in the fantasy world are very much objects and not simply facets or abstracted ideas of these objects that introversion deals with. 

If you are wondering about how a motor works in your head, you are thinking about _the_ motor. The motor itself is an object and thus also concrete in Jung's definition of how he understood what concrete means. 



> Im not going into exploring your statement that you dont daydream but I must admit it weirds me out, if I were to believe that, especially for a Ni user.


Yeah, and that's your problem, that you think imagination of this particular kind is linked to Ni. It really isn't. Ni imagination is more like what I provided in a previous post here about how I described my sense of internal state. 



> Yes Ni isnt literal, yet it can never be consciously imagined as a pure independent form, it is always under control by Pe input of the object.


Sure, but it doesn't mean that it deals with the object. Very different. 



> And to quote a bit of jung:


I don't see the connection between these two quotes and what you are trying to suggest. Ni can come across as very sensory in the sense of how it physically describes a thing, but none of those physical qualities are related to any actual object in the world. It's all based on a subjective impression of something. 

Another big difference between daydreaming and Ni is that daydreaming is a consciously controlled activity. You can direct it as you go, but you cannot consciously control Ni because Ni is unconscious. You can't go "I am going to Ni now". All you can do when prompted, is to try to pick up something that your unconsciousness picks up on and extrapolate when something pops into your head. You can't, however, force it out of you. It doesn't work. Either you have an impression or you don't.


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