# Reactive Types (4,6,8)



## cosmia (Jan 9, 2011)

For reference: 



> The reactive types tend to want to get a reaction from others. When a reactive type is upset, they don't want the other person to stay calm. They want to see their negative emotions mirrored by others. They are often referred to as the "truth tellers of the enneagram" for the simple reason that reactive types can pick up on the more troubled aspects of a situation before other types do. If the positive outlook types err by focusing too much on the positive, reactive types can err by focusing too much on the negative. What they're seeing may, in fact, be there, but what comes across as barely perceptible to other types comes across like a flashing neon sign to the reactive types, and it's very difficult for them to not address it.


quoted from amberheadlights's post here



*If you're a reactive type, what has been your experience? Problems? Strengths? If you aren't, how would you describe your dealings with this triad? Let's discuss reactivity!!*


----------



## voicetrocity (Mar 31, 2012)

> _The reactive types tend to want to get a reaction from others. When a reactive type is upset, they don't want the other person to stay calm. They want to see their negative emotions mirrored by others._


Yes. Yes. However, I'm not too sure how concerned I am with the other person "mirroring" my emotions; I'm not that focused on emotions. I just want the visual cue that what I'm saying is being communicated efficiently. 


> _What they're seeing may, in fact, be there, but what comes across as barely perceptible to other types comes across like a flashing neon sign to the reactive types, and it's very difficult for them to not address it._


 This resonates with me a lot, and I always attributed it to Ne before really getting into the enneagram. If something doesn't "sit" well with me, I'm not good at hiding it, which gets pretty frustrating; because most people see it as being "confrontational" and react with getting defensive, which doesn't accomplish much beyond frustrating me. I'm not trying to transmit an "emotion", just stating the obvious; so it's always strange when someone reacts that way. 

I'm curious to hear from types other than ones from this triad and their experiences with communicating with us.


----------



## aconite (Mar 26, 2012)

Well, my type belongs to the positive triad, but I have always related to the reactive triad better. After all, I have two reactive fixes and a reactive wing


----------



## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

@cosmia

I definitely, *definitely *want to see my negative emotions mirrored in others, or at least a sign that they understand and empathize. If I don't, my reactivity will only get worse and worse. I'll sulk, brood, pout, and withdraw to get them to respond to me. 

There's nothing that gets me more riled up than seeing someone perfectly calm and cold while I'm sitting here seething in anger. It really gets to me, and I can't control that. Especially in a conflict, I will zero in on the subtle nuances in what a person says, and I'll use those to get to the core of things. "You said this, does this mean you ______ ?" or "That didn't sound like a question." Lol. I can be a nightmare.

My primary way of reacting is very 4-like, in that I'll withdraw to get their attention. I won't make it too obvious, but obvious enough for them to feel like there's something wrong. If they're oblivious, I interpret it as them not caring, then I get angry.

I really love this description:



> The Reactives are actually those who seek a reaction from others. They feel that in order to get to the truth, they must deliberately provoke others into giving them an authentic response.
> 
> For Type Four, Russ offers the example of a young girl who, during a disagreement with her parents, dramatically storms out of the room and crawls beneath her bed to hide. Unlike a Five child, the young Four girl not genuinely want to be left alone. She stormed out of the room *to see if her parents cared enough about her to chase after her. She was testing them. That’s what it means to be “reactive” in an enneagrammatic sense.*


I think I often test others in that way. For example, say something said something to upset me. I won't just explode (and people often misinterpret reactivity for explosiveness), but I'll simply be less talkative, more curt and dry, or simply say I have to go. This is when I'm really feeling childish and less healthy. It's still an overpowering urge, though. If I had to speculate, I'd say the truth 4s want to get at is more in the realm of emotions. If there's something that really infuriates me, it's seeing someone fake how they feel about something. Which is why I'll probe, and test to get to the heart of matters, to know how they REALLY feel about something.


----------



## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

voicetrocity said:


> This resonates with me a lot, and I always attributed it to Ne before really getting into the enneagram. If something doesn't "sit" well with me, I'm not good at hiding it, which gets pretty frustrating; because most people see it as being "confrontational" and react with getting defensive, which doesn't accomplish much beyond frustrating me. I'm not trying to transmit an "emotion", just stating the obvious; so it's always strange when someone reacts that way.


I agree with this completely. I'm a strange mix of passive aggressive and overly confrontational, it just depends on the matter at hand. For example, if I'm really angry about something, having to hold back only gets me even more furious. I get really frustrated at having to conceal how I feel, so I often fail at that. I just need to solve it *NOW*.

People in my world see it as immaturity, which I guess it is in a way. I can't fake not being affected by something for the life of me, and that is often considered "inappropriate" socially


----------



## cosmia (Jan 9, 2011)

kaleidoscope said:


> There's nothing that gets me more riled up than seeing someone perfectly calm and cold while I'm sitting here seething in anger. It really gets to me, and I can't control that. Especially in a conflict, I will zero in on the subtle nuances in what a person says, and I'll use those to get to the core of things. "You said this, does this mean you ______ ?" or "That didn't sound like a question." Lol. I can be a nightmare.


God, this is so like me. I like it sometimes because if I'm paired with somebody equally as reactive it can be a really intense and fulfilling experience (odd way to describe it maybe..? cathartic maybe?). But when I'm paired with somebody more withdrawn like my boyfriend, somebody who prefers to keep his emotions to himself and think things over instead of having intense here-and-now confrontations, it is really frustrating. For both of us. 

I know it puts a lot of pressure on him, and it usually makes small problems bigger (I bring something up, valid or invalid -> he stays calm/gets quiet/tries to avoid it -> I get angrier -> nobody's happy) which is partially why I started this thread, maybe to find out how us reactive types can tone ourselves down under stress and better communicate with others.


----------



## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

cosmia said:


> God, this is so like me. I like it sometimes because if I'm paired with somebody equally as reactive it can be a really intense and fulfilling experience (odd way to describe it maybe..? cathartic maybe?). But when I'm paired with somebody more withdrawn like my boyfriend, somebody who prefers to keep his emotions to himself and think things over instead of having intense here-and-now confrontations, it is really frustrating. For both of us.
> 
> I know it puts a lot of pressure on him, and it usually makes small problems bigger (I bring something up, valid or invalid -> he stays calm/gets quiet/tries to avoid it -> I get angrier -> nobody's happy) which is partially why I started this thread, maybe to find out how us reactive types can tone ourselves down under stress and better communicate with others.


You know, intense here-and-now confrontations are amazing in the intensity and feeling like your partner cares just as much, but they can be really frustrating as well, as you'll keep going around and around in circles. Anything one will say will be taken a step further by the other, and so on and so forth. It can be exhausting, but it's still better than arguing with someone who _seems _unaffected. 

Perhaps your partner is in the competency triad? I saw this table, and it might be helpful to you ^^


PartiesReactive Group (4,6,8) in conflict with Competency (1,3,5)Reaction to conflictThe other person doesn’t respond emotionally – they don’t appear to think this issue is very important. You get frustrated because the other person is jumping ahead to solving the problem before you’ve had a chance to fully understand and internalize the scope and magnitude of the problem. 
“Why are you trying to solve a problem we don’t fully understand?”The other person is overreacting – they get overly emotional and pessimistic. The other person frustrates me because s/he keeps focussing on how bad the problem is without wanting to fix it. I’m trying to resolve this problem, but s/he is stuck dwelling on it.
“Yes, I know there’s a problem, I’m trying to solve it.”Conflict Resolution StrategiesDon’t expect the other person to react emotionally, because they are not usually comfortable expressing their feelings. You can communicate your concerns more effectively through logic than through feelings.Try to express some emotional concern, either for the magnitude of the problem, or your desire to fix it.
If you can’t respond emotionally, try to paraphrase what they are saying to acknowledge their concerns.

(Source)


----------



## cosmia (Jan 9, 2011)

kaleidoscope said:


> You know, intense here-and-now confrontations are amazing in the intensity and feeling like your partner cares just as much, but they can be really frustrating as well, as you'll keep going around and around in circles. Anything one will say will be taken a step further by the other, and so on and so forth. It can be exhausting, but it's still better than arguing with someone who _seems _unaffected.
> 
> Perhaps your partner is in the competency triad? I saw this table, and it might be helpful to you ^^
> 
> ...


Yep, I think it is possible he is a 5, and if not that, definitely somewhere in that triad. Thanks for the table and link! I have been slowly learning this from experience but to see it all written out like that gives me a nice confirmation


----------



## aconite (Mar 26, 2012)

@kaleidoscope - thanks for the link! I've never seen that before, how could I miss that?

Anyway, I can't relate to the positive types in conflict AT ALL. To reactive, though... painfully accurate.

(not doubting my type, just thinking aloud)


----------



## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

@aconite

Hey, no problem  My core 1 partner also can't relate much to the competency way of dealing with conflict, and he's much more reactive (he does have a very heavy 6 fix though).


----------



## Mizmar (Aug 12, 2009)

Interesting thread. 



cosmia said:


> But when I'm paired with somebody more withdrawn like my boyfriend, somebody who prefers to keep his emotions to himself and think things over instead of having intense here-and-now confrontations, it is really frustrating. For both of us.


Yes. Sorry about that. I guess dealing with a reactive type - when they are in a reactive kind of mood -- can feel like an interrogation. It feels confusing, intrusive, and intimidating. It's like, "what does this person want from me"? It's my habit not to share my thoughts and feelings; certainly not right away. I like time to think and look at the situation from different angles. 

This thread has been illuminating for me. Hearing reactivity described from the reactive types' perspective makes it seem much more reasonable than it tends to come across in 3D reality. I will try to keep the information here in mind, as an aid in future communications with people.

Kaleidoscope said _"It can be exhausting, but it's still better than arguing with someone who seems unaffected." 
_
Having read the above statement has made me realize that, relative to my father, I'm actually a bit reactive myself and I know the feeling of trying to communicate a genuine concern to someone who seems unaffected. Because that's often how I felt interacting with him. As if he was somehow above me and all my petty, mortal concerns. Or like he didn't have feelings at all. I feel bad knowing I come across the same way to people much of the time.


----------



## Octavarium (Nov 27, 2012)

I partially relate to the reactive triad, in that I do find some truth in people's emotional reactions and I want to know that others care about the issue. I don't necessarily want to have my emotions mirrored, though. If I go to someone with a problem I might want to vent about it, and if it's just one of those minor frustrations of life then I'll quite enjoy everyone getting a bit pissed off together. If I go to someone because I need help solving a fairly big problem, I'm going to be more reassured by the person calmly explaining to me how the issue can be resolved and what they/I/we can do about it. If they do that, assuming it's someone I can trust, that'll reassure me that the problem probably isn't as big as I thought it was and there's a way around it. If they get as worked up about it as I am, then I'll start thinking I'm not going to be able to resolve the problem. I hope that made sense.


----------



## n2freedom (Jun 2, 2011)

kaleidoscope said:


> You know, intense here-and-now confrontations are amazing in the intensity and feeling like your partner cares just as much, but they can be really frustrating as well, as you'll keep going around and around in circles. Anything one will say will be taken a step further by the other, and so on and so forth. It can be exhausting, but it's still better than arguing with someone who _seems _unaffected.
> 
> Perhaps your partner is in the competency triad? I saw this table, and it might be helpful to you ^^
> 
> ...


This is has definitely been the dynamics with two fives AND two nines that I have been in intimate relationships with. You would think I would get it by now.  But, show up for the fight dammit! I know what to do with that but when I'm upset about something and I'm expressing it to be met by an ice block or a brick wall type of response...all it does is serve to infuriate me more. Since learning about the Enneagram....I'm learning to catch myself in the act.

But, something about receiving a reaction lets me know that I have been heard...and at the end of the day that's all I really want to know is that you heard me and understood me. You don't have to agree with me...but don't be Mr. Stonewall or Mrs. Stonewall and that will go a long way towards getting it resolved with me more quickly. :wink:

Edit: forgot to say thanks for posting this. Excellent info....hadn't seen it before.


----------



## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

cosmia said:


> For reference:
> quoted from amberheadlights's post here
> *If you're a reactive type, what has been your experience? Problems? Strengths? If you aren't, how would you describe your dealings with this triad? Let's discuss reactivity!!*


I think the term "reactive" though accurate at times, has a poor connotation. less mature 4s, 6s and 8s can be pretty reactive, but I think the "intensity triad" is a more accurate term for them


----------



## scarlett.page (Nov 14, 2011)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> I think the term "reactive" though accurate at times, has a poor connotation. less mature 4s, 6s and 8s can be pretty reactive, but I think the "intensity triad" is a more accurate term for them


I agree. The description 'reactive' sounds irrational. As an INTP 6w7 my conflict style is to express the problem or concern thoroughly, and I need a reaction so I know the depth and scope of my feelings and perspective is well understood. But I am, in the end, only trying to solve the problem. The experience of sharing and receiving a reaction is a means to an end. That being said, like some INTPs, sometimes I come off a lot more upset about something than I really am. Emotions stemming from separate things sometime come out all at once. And the 6 in me gets scared. So conflicts with other reactive types can escalate and if I'm too angry I may accuse the other person of overreacting. If the other person isn't reacting I can become insecure that I'm not being understood and or seem irrational. Hmm, typing this out made me finally realize what went wrong in a few situations and now I can avoid that in the future


----------



## cosmia (Jan 9, 2011)

Octavarium said:


> I partially relate to the reactive triad, in that I do find some truth in people's emotional reactions and I want to know that others care about the issue. I don't necessarily want to have my emotions mirrored, though. If I go to someone with a problem I might want to vent about it, and if it's just one of those minor frustrations of life then I'll quite enjoy everyone getting a bit pissed off together. *If I go to someone because I need help solving a fairly big problem, I'm going to be more reassured by the person calmly explaining to me how the issue can be resolved and what they/I/we can do about it. If they do that, assuming it's someone I can trust, that'll reassure me that the problem probably isn't as big as I thought it was and there's a way around it. If they get as worked up about it as I am, then I'll start thinking I'm not going to be able to resolve the problem. I hope that made sense.*


To the bolded part: Yeah I get this. For me, in such a case, it wouldn't be about having my emotions mirrored necessarily, but having my investment mirrored. However invested I am in the problem I would really want most for them to care equally. If I told them my problem casually, didn't make a big deal, I would expect a casual comment or a couple of solutions suggested. If I were really worked up, like crying or something, then it would be obvious I'm invested in the problem, and I would expect somebody who cared about me to be equally invested, not necessarily equally UPSET. I'm not sure if what I'm describing is a reactive people thing or a people thing, but there it is.


----------



## voicetrocity (Mar 31, 2012)

kaleidoscope said:


> People in my world see it as immaturity, which I guess it is in a way. I can't fake not being affected by something for the life of me, and that is often considered "inappropriate" socially


Dear lord, I get the "immaturity" card all the time, my parent even liked to tell me that I needed to learn how to "cope" (which I'm sure you can imagine how well that went over). I'm honestly not programmed to stop and think _"Oh, lemme stop and think how this is going to make someone feel"_. If something "touches" me, you're going to know about it; I'm not trying to make you go claw your own eyes out or anything, so it's really shocking when someone responds with _"Why are you trying to make me feel bad"_. Not that I'm a saint or anything, but assigning me motives or feelings really isn't on my list of favorite things and doesn't help the situation at all. 

To be honest, my reactivity could use some "reeling" in; but the only way I've found to be able to do that is to logically talk myself out of it, which works about as well as putting your weight against a door trying to prevent a 400lb person from opening it and telling yourself repeatedly _"There's no weight against my back right now". _Riiiiiggghhhhttt...


----------



## Paradigm (Feb 16, 2010)

> The reactive types tend to want to get a reaction from others. When a reactive type is upset, they don't want the other person to stay calm. They want to see their negative emotions mirrored by others.


I'm of two minds about this. I'll say that more often than not, I'd rather my feelings be acknowledged rather than mirrored, but there are certain times when mirroring is what I need to feel better. Many times, I think both parties freaking out is more detrimental, and one person should keep a clearer head. Like @Octavarium said, I prefer solving problems rather than getting emotional about them. I do need time to _understand_, though.



> They are often referred to as the "truth tellers of the enneagram" for the simple reason that reactive types can pick up on the more troubled aspects of a situation before other types do.


As a child, I got in "trouble" a lot by saying what was on my mind rather than thinking it through and saying things tactfully. I still mess up quite often, but I put even more effort into being kinder and in saying less. 



> What they're seeing may, in fact, be there, but what comes across as barely perceptible to other types comes across like a flashing neon sign to the reactive types, and it's very difficult for them to not address it.


I have experienced this a lot. Many reactives, most often 6s, seem to have something of a Cassandra Complex (@Boss introduced this concept). I've coped by keeping many things to myself, but I still feel _wrongness_ and can (rarely) act furiously in response if I get overwhelmed by it.

------


aconite said:


> Well, my type belongs to the positive triad, but I have always related to the reactive triad better. After all, I have two reactive fixes and a reactive wing


I'm similar in regards to the object relations triads. I'm supposed to be the attached 6, but I end up relating to the frustrated 1/4/7s more... And like you, my tritype explains why


----------



## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

@_Paradigm_ @_Octavarium_

Mirroring is not something I want when I'm talking to someone I'm not upset with. When I go seek advice from a friend, I don't want them to be equally as upset as I am, and like both of you, I want someone to give me concrete ways to solve it. I don't think someone can be reactive with a person not involved in the problem in the first place.

But when I _*am*_ upset with someone, that's when I need my emotions mirrored and acknowledged in that same person.


----------



## RepairmanMan Man (Jan 21, 2012)

I've always seen myself as a "reactive" type based on the descriptions. It describes my emotional energy so well. I agree with all these points in particular:



kaleidoscope said:


> There's nothing that gets me more riled up than seeing someone perfectly calm and cold while I'm sitting here seething in anger.


My 9w1 parents were lords and masters of sneering down on me the more I'd get worked up. I'd practically be reaching for the knives, and they'd be laughing at how "immature" I was being. I've come to think it was just the opposite.



kaleidoscope said:


> For example, if I'm really angry about something, having to hold back only gets me even more furious. I get really frustrated at having to conceal how I feel, so I often fail at that. I just need to solve it *NOW*.


Can't hold the feelings back.



aconite said:


> Anyway, I can't relate to the positive types in conflict AT ALL. To reactive, though... painfully accurate.


It's OK. I relate to other things than complaint-attachment. I'll mention that at the bottom.



n2freedom said:


> This is has definitely been the dynamics with two fives AND two nines that I have been in intimate relationships with. You would think I would get it by now.  But, show up for the fight dammit! I know what to do with that but when I'm upset about something and I'm expressing it to be met by an ice block or a brick wall type of response...all it does is serve to infuriate me more.


Yeah, just like I said above. Hell, it infuriates me just to read that, because I know what you're talking about so _much_.



voicetrocity said:


> To be honest, my reactivity could use some "reeling" in; but the only way I've found to be able to do that is to logically talk myself out of it, which works about as well as putting your weight against a door trying to prevent a 400lb person from opening it and telling yourself repeatedly _"There's no weight against my back right now". _Riiiiiggghhhhttt...


Yes.



Paradigm said:


> As a child, I got in "trouble" a lot by saying what was on my mind rather than thinking it through and saying things tactfully. I still mess up quite often, but I put even more effort into being kinder and in saying less.
> 
> I have experienced this a lot. Many reactives, most often 6s, seem to have something of a Cassandra Complex (@Boss introduced this concept). I've coped by keeping many things to myself, but I still feel _wrongness_ and can (rarely) act furiously in response if I get overwhelmed by it.


I have the same trouble with speaking the truth the way I see it. I've been told I lack discretion, and since that basically ruined my life 5 years ago, I've been struggling every day with saying things really, _really_ nicely. I think it's working.

I also DO have the Cassandra Complex. That's my family's nickname for me actually.

And, I'll add some of my own thoughts:



> The reactive types tend to want to get a reaction from others. When a reactive type is upset, they don't want the other person to stay calm. They want to see their negative emotions mirrored by others.


I want people to feel what I'm feeling.



> They are often referred to as the "truth tellers of the enneagram" for the simple reason that reactive types can pick up on the more troubled aspects of a situation before other types do.


Story of my life. I know what's really going on and you can't fool me.



> If the positive outlook types err by  focusing too much on the positive, reactive types can err by focusing too much on the negative.


Well, I am in the TRIPLE NEGATIVE tritype after all.



> What they're seeing may, in fact, be there, but what comes across as barely perceptible to other types comes across like a flashing neon sign to the reactive types, and it's very difficult for them to not address it.


I don't know. I just know stuff gets under my skin, and I want it out of my skin.

Again, of all the triads, I've always identified MOST with *reactive*, followed by *withdrawn* and *rejection*, followed at a distance by frustration. There was a reason I first thought I was in the 458 tritype, let's just say that. I don't identify much with _attachment,_ _compliant,_ or _competency_, and _positive_ is total wtf.


----------



## aconite (Mar 26, 2012)

holyrockthrower said:


> Again, of all the triads, I've always identified MOST with *reactive*, followed by *withdrawn* and *rejection*, followed at a distance by frustration. There was a reason I first thought I was in the 458 tritype, let's just say that. I don't identify much with _attachment,_ _compliant,_ or _competency_, and _positive_ is total wtf.


My thoughts, almost. When I read the reactive description for the first time, it was "WOW, totally me!" - same with frustration, really. I also relate to id types way more than to ego or superego.

Well...
reactive + id = 8
reactive + frustration = 4
id + frustration = 7

and oh, look at my tritype, what a coincidence LOL


----------



## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

Mizmar said:


> Interesting thread.
> 
> Yes. Sorry about that. I guess dealing with a reactive type - when they are in a reactive kind of mood -- can feel like an interrogation. It feels confusing, intrusive, and intimidating. It's like, "what does this person want from me"? It's my habit not to share my thoughts and feelings; certainly not right away. I like time to think and look at the situation from different angles.
> 
> ...


I'm interested in hearing more about your perspective when in conflict with reactive types. What do you feel is your most comfortable way to solve a problem, and why? In what ways do you feel are reactive types useful or useless in a conflict situation? What do you think we should/could do to make things easier when in conflict with you? 

^^


----------



## Mizmar (Aug 12, 2009)

kaleidoscope said:


> I'm interested in hearing more about your perspective when in conflict with reactive types.


The thing is, it's so very rare for me to get actively involved in any kind of conflict with people. If I express rage toward someone, it's because they were acting very belligerently and truly earned it. As for more casual bickering, that's not something I engage in much and when I do it feels more like joking around than actual conflict.



> What do you feel is your most comfortable way to solve a problem, and why?


I try to soak in whatever information is available, reflect, flip things around in my head and look for different possibilities: "If we took this action, would the result be___or___or possibly___?" I've noticed I tend to be a bit more cautious than other people in the advice I give, lest it turn out to be bad, ill-informed advice. Like, one day after my my girlfriend had a particularly soul-crushing day at work, most of the people in her life were rather impulsively telling her to "just quit!" I thought that was a bad idea and I'm glad she didn't follow it. I realize it was their way of showing emotional support and concern, but still I felt a bit resentful because I thought the advice was objectively bad. The less I know about a person's unique situation, the more reluctant I am to dish out any advice and, if I do, it will usually come out in the form of a question like, "what do you think would happen if you did this?" Maybe some people find it annoying that I don't just "take a stand" right away. 



> In what ways do you feel are reactive types useful or useless in a conflict situation?


Reactive types definitely seem quicker to detect BS than I am but, on the other hand, I often feel they are detecting BS where there isn't any, where there is more likely ignorance or misunderstanding at play, not actual dishonesty. Of course, an individual reactive type (or any individual) may know more about a particular subject than I do, in which case I see them as a valuable source of information. And Sixes and Eights are often much gutsier and more courageous than I am. Also, since I often feel hesitant to speak my mind or to put things into words, it would often be helpful to have a truth-teller on my side, someone who will just say what needs to be said (just so long as the "truth" they are telling IS actually true). I tend not to be very direct, so having someone else around who is direct would help make up for that. (This was an interesting question because I'm not used to thinking of people in terms of how useful they are. I think more about how interesting or uninteresting a person is, or how draining it is [or isn't] to be around them.)




> What do you think we should/could do to make things easier when in conflict with you?


Everyone on this thread is probably all already doing it just by becoming more aware of their underlying patterns and drives, and how other people differ. I wouldn't feel right asking anyone to do anything more than that. I have to work on my own shortcomings. 

My girlfriend is a Nine but she has a Six head fix and, more importantly perhaps, works at a very stressful job so she's often stressed out at point Six. Much of the time she is, effectively, a reactive type. She vents a lot about her job after work. I can easily empathize with her, but verbalizing it feels a bit unnatural to me. It's like I really have to push it up out of me. I've recently begun more-or-less repeating things she's already said or adding something like "that sucks". That really works wonders! She really appreciates those little verbal acknowledgements. 



holyrockthrower said:


> I want people to feel what I'm feeling.


I can't speak for other non-reactive types, but I personally have no problem feeling what others are feeling. I tend feel others' grief, anger, and anxiousness as if they were my own. But that's one of the reasons I feel the need to withdraw -- either physically to recharge or further up into my mind where it feels safe. Otherwise, I can often feel like I'm crushed underneath the emotional weight of it all. The emotional displays of others can feel invasive. It's like I have no skin to protect me from them.


----------



## Paradigm (Feb 16, 2010)

kaleidoscope said:


> But when I _*am*_ upset with someone, that's when I need my emotions mirrored and acknowledged in that same person.


I originally wrote a longer post in response to you, trying to explain what I prefer. But now I'm starting to suspect that we're having some sort of unintentional confusion surrounding this topic. For example, I'm not completely sure what kind of situation you're describing, or more accurately if they're the same type of situations I'm thinking of. Is it an argument between two people, or facing something together, or something else? In fact, how are we even defining mirroring?

During an argument between me and another person, I get insanely flustered (sometimes even blank out) if the other person is raising their voice or being passive-aggressive or other such things. I need at least a semblance of calm to feel better and regain my footing, because I can't react well to strong emotions. Being gently honest, understanding, and patient are key in my ideal conflict resolutions--not mirroring, per se. (See this post.)

That said, it has been pointed out to me that I expect certain reactions at times and I've since noticed how disappointed I get when they don't happen. I'm not sure if this is just human or is a reactive trait, but it's there all the same.


----------



## Doll (Sep 6, 2012)

> The reactive types tend to want to get a reaction from others. When a reactive type is upset, they don't want the other person to stay calm. They want to see their negative emotions mirrored by others.


This. So true I can't even say. When I have an issue or I'm upset and my SO remains completely calm and cool and detached, I become even more upset because I feel as though she isn't responding to me/doesn't care. I go into a "how can you be so calm??? YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT ME" mode, and then she assures me that she's staying calm so her temper doesn't explode and she says/does things she regrets (she's a type 8 and her temper is explosive). When she finally erupts I feel a sense of peace and almost relief, because her strong feelings and reactions (to me) are indicative that she's still invested in our relationship and still cares about me. I can't stand the calm, cool, removed type. They seem very cold and un-feeling... and I can't understand it, so it makes me uncomfortable. I can understand and deal with strong emotions (and they send me into a state of excitement; I get an adrenaline rush), so I would much rather be screamed at than met with chilly silence.


----------



## madhatter (May 30, 2010)

I don't belong to the reactive/intensity triad at all. But I can actually quite temperamental and mercurial in my moods, and I also want acknowledgment of my viewpoint/emotions/etc. and I do not remain calm for long in an argument/fight. I've always seen myself as being temperamental and having a temper, but to people who actually belong to the reactive triad, they see me as non-reactive, which surprised me. But it makes sense...many of my "reactions" are internal. But looking at my tritype, all three of my wings are reactive: w6, w4, and w8. So maybe that's why I see some "reactive" traits in me.


----------



## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

@_Paradigm_

I think you misunderstand what I mean when I say I want my emotions mirrored. It's not about screaming at each other, or having one of those insanely dramatic conflicts. _For example:_ say a friend of mine said something that upset me, and they didn't mean to. They're probably even unaware of the fact that they hurt me. My typical reaction will be something along the lines of becoming more silent, less responsive, more distant. I withdraw, and wait for them to realize that there's something wrong. I'm not going to burst into tears, but I _do _want them to realize that they hurt me, and I want them to care about the fact that they did. If they brush it off, it's just going to make things worse. 

My ex used to do this thing where he'd know he hurt me, and act like nothing was wrong, thinking it would make me get over it. Worst thing *EVER*. He also used to sometimes say he was sorry just to make us move on without really meaning it, it caused me so much distress. In my head, I'd be like "I DON'T FEEL LIKE YOU'RE SORRY".


----------



## Mizmar (Aug 12, 2009)

madhatter said:


> I don't belong to the reactive/intensity triad at all. But I can actually quite temperamental and mercurial in my moods, and I also want acknowledgment of my viewpoint/emotions/etc. and I do not remain calm for long in an argument/fight. I've always seen myself as being temperamental and having a temper, but to people who actually belong to the reactive triad, they see me as non-reactive, which surprised me.


People in general see me as "calm" and "rational", but on the inside I can feel quite anxious and overwhelmed. When my girlfriend vents to me, for example, I feel myself getting nearly as angry as she is but I'll just keep it bottled-up inside. She can still tell I'm angry, though, because I automatically do this thing where I tighten my lips together and flex my face into a grimace.


----------



## sodden (Jul 20, 2009)

aconite said:


> Well, my type belongs to the positive triad, but I have always related to the reactive triad better. After all, I have two reactive fixes and a reactive wing


This is part of why I thought I was a four. Also, being a sx/sp contributes to it. I think being the instinct stacking referred to as 'the one man storm' doesn't exactly lend itself to bright and sunny optimism, ha ha. (Although I hate it when people are overly negative. It drives me crazy...)

EDIT: That said, reading that chart makes me realize how much I do the positive triad thing- if someone asks me what's bothering me I usually water it down and I really do expect things to solve themselves. What can I say, a lot of times they do. (But not the big important things, sigh.)


----------



## mental blockstack (Dec 15, 2011)

cosmia said:


> The reactive types tend to want to get a reaction from others. When a reactive type is upset, they don't want the other person to stay calm. They want to see their negative emotions mirrored by others.


The trolls of the enneagram


----------



## madhatter (May 30, 2010)

brainheart said:


> This is part of why I thought I was a four. Also, being a sx/sp contributes to it. I think being the instinct stacking referred to as 'the one man storm' doesn't exactly lend itself to bright and sunny optimism, ha ha. (Although I hate it when people are overly negative. It drives me crazy...)


You make a very important point. 9w8 is my gut-fix, and I'm not a sunny and bubbly optimist either. Those types of people get on my nerves a little, because I see it as an act. But, I can see the effects of this "positive outlook" type, because I can't stand when people are overly negative either. I get really irritated by it and I just don't want to be around them. 

With your 8-wing and the 46 fixes, do you come off as more reactive than other 9s?


----------



## sodden (Jul 20, 2009)

madhatter said:


> You make a very important point. 9w8 is my gut-fix, and I'm not a sunny and bubbly optimist either. Those types of people get on my nerves a little, because I see it as an act. But, I can see the effects of this "positive outlook" type, because I can't stand when people are overly negative either. I get really irritated by it and I just don't want to be around them.
> 
> With your 8-wing and the 46 fixes, do you come off as more reactive than other 9s?


I think so. I imagine that's why I thought I was a four. But on the four forums I'd always be thinking to myself "C'mon. Get over yourself!" I tend to keep my reactivity to myself more than I throw it on people. That feels selfish to me. But sometimes I explode and wow does it feel good 

I think the 8 wing brings a practical realism to it and that tamps down the optimism a bit, makes it less starry and blind. I think it's why I've wondered sometimes if I'm a sensor and why I get along with perceiving sensors so well. I prefer nature to fantasy. I like fiction that seems 'real', or is based on reality, not the whole wizard happily ever after business. I could see myself delivering mail or keeping bees or being a carpenter. I like to do hands on, real stuff. But I'm definitely an INFP.


----------



## madhatter (May 30, 2010)

brainheart said:


> I think so. I imagine that's why I thought I was a four. But on the four forums I'd always be thinking to myself "C'mon. Get over yourself!"


This made me laugh. +1 XD



> I tend to keep my reactivity to myself more than I throw it on people. That feels selfish to me. But sometimes I explode and wow does it feel good


Same here. When I do explode in front of people who don't know that side of me very well, I always surprise them. But I try not to bottle it up anymore, like I did when I was younger. I prefer directness and swift resolution to problems. I don't like burying my head in the sand just so these things can come back to bite me in the ass. Let's just lay it out on the table and get it over with, you know? I think this is one of the things that distinguish 9w8 from 8w9...I identify a lot with 8w9. But the difference is that 8w9 might not necessarily be concerned about "getting it over with"...I've talked to some 8-fixers and they are energized by the conflict. I am not...it is draining for me. I'm not afraid of conflict, but I don't enjoy it. My 8-wing says let's confront this head-on, be a "defensive puncher", and the 9 says, let's get it over with so I can have my peace. 



> I think the 8 wing brings a practical realism to it and that tamps down the optimism a bit, makes it less starry and blind. I think it's why I've wondered sometimes if I'm a sensor and why I get along with perceiving sensors so well. I prefer nature to fantasy. I like fiction that seems 'real', or is based on reality, not the whole wizard happily ever after business. I could see myself delivering mail or keeping bees or being a carpenter. I like to do hands on, real stuff. But I'm definitely an INFP.


I agree...a very good way to put it. The 8-wing is much "earthier" and grounded. How good is your connection to tertiary Si? 

I enjoy fantasy, but when I read fantasy, I like it to be ruled by realistic principles, not just "hey, we got magic, we could do anything we want without consequences". Some of my favorite fantasy authors treat their magic systems like they are bound by the laws of science. But I've always attributed this to my Se.


----------



## Doll (Sep 6, 2012)

kaleidoscope said:


> I really love this description:
> 
> She stormed out of the room *to see if her parents cared enough about her to chase after her. She was testing them. That’s what it means to be “reactive” in an enneagrammatic sense.*


I just saw this, and it made me lol because I still do this to this day. I don't crawl under the bed anymore, but I'll storm off - whether it to be to another room, jumping out of a car in the middle of nowhere, or even just the other couch - just to make the person come after me. It's so awful when they don't, though. I'll lay there and lay there and my emotions just continue to build until I'm convinced that the person in the other room must hate me to death if they can't even be bothered to chase me into the other room.


----------



## Mizmar (Aug 12, 2009)

Snow White said:


> I just saw this, and it made me lol because I still do this to this day. I don't crawl under the bed anymore, but I'll storm off - whether it to be to another room, jumping out of a car in the middle of nowhere, or even just the other couch - just to make the person come after me. *It's so awful when they don't, though. I'll lay there and lay there and my emotions just continue to build until I'm convinced that the person in the other room must hate me to death if they can't even be bothered to chase me into the other room.*


My god! I must be every reactive type's worst nightmare. If I saw a person behave that way I'd probably just assume they wanted to be alone. Or I'd probably be confused as to what they want.

Some of this sounds distinctly Four-ish though. I think the Eights in my life tend to be more directly confrontational. They might storm off, but not before making some very blunt, direct point such as *"go f**k yourself!"*

There was a certain Four in my life who could get very sulky and brooding in the way Kaleidoscope described earlier. Occasionally she's do something more volatile like throw a crumpled piece of paper at my head if I made some wry comment she took offence to. But then she'd immediately come over and give me a hug and apologize.


----------



## Doll (Sep 6, 2012)

Mizmar said:


> My god! I must be every reactive type's worst nightmare. If I saw a person behave that way I'd probably just assume they wanted to be alone. Or I'd probably be confused as to what they want.
> 
> Some of this sounds distinctly Four-ish though. I think the Eights in my life tend to be more directly confrontational. They might storm off, but not before making some very blunt, direct point such as *"go f**k yourself!"*
> 
> There was a certain Four in my life who could get very sulky and brooding in the way Kaleidoscope described earlier. Occasionally she's do something more volatile like throw a crumpled piece of paper at my head if I made some wry comment she took offence to. But then she'd immediately come over and give me a hug and apologize.


LOL! I've said "go f*ck yourself!!!" in a moment of extreme volatility, but that was at a breaking point where my emotions were so high and extreme that all I could do was lash out. But even when I did that, it wasn't an expression of anger so much as a need to express how upset and hurt I am and to incite a reaction in the other person. I think 4-6-8s tend to push people in similar ways, but their motivations for doing it differ.

My SO is an 8, and when I tell her to leave me alone (she is a reactive type) she's like, "Fine. I'll really leave you alone and then you'll see what it's like." And then me: "NOO!!!! I'M SORRY!!!" It's that push/pull dynamic that 4s seem to be so good at. "GET AWAY FROM ME NO WAIT COME BACK WHY ARE YOU LEAVING ME OMG DON'T TOUCH ME YOU HATE ME" motif that can be oh-so-confusing (I imagine) for you 5s. It's because it's illogical. It's based purely on emotion and there aren't any attempts to excuse it, or hide it, or explain it. Unfortunately, it gives people the impression that you're a drama queen... or like... extremely unstable...


----------



## Paradigm (Feb 16, 2010)

I _think _I've learned by now that sulking off and expecting someone to follow doesn't work (for me), so I haven't done it for years. Perhaps that's why I don't relate much to that part. If I'm angry, I want time to cool off. If I'm hurt, I definitely withdraw, but eventually (usually) have to say something to get the other party to apologize if I'm looking for it. 

To be honest, I would rarely follow anyone who sulked off. I also refuse to "persuade" someone to share their feelings. I know a lot of people who go, "Siiigh, I'm so sad," and if they don't tell me what's wrong when I ask the first time (because they want me to ask five times), I drop the subject. To me, it's respecting their boundaries: I'd want the same to be done, so I do it to them. (Because I share emotionally on my terms, not anyone else's.)

I'm concerned / wondering how much being INTJ and 1w9-fixed is confusing the issue for me. My 4-fix can be virtually unnoticeable, too. I mean, _I know _I'm reactive, but sometimes it's hard to see it... Or perhaps hard to verbalize it.


----------



## madhatter (May 30, 2010)

Paradigm said:


> To be honest, I would rarely follow anyone who sulked off. I also refuse to "persuade" someone to share their feelings. I know a lot of people who go, "Siiigh, I'm so sad," and if they don't tell me what's wrong when I ask the first time (because they want me to ask five times), I drop the subject. To me, it's respecting their boundaries: I'd want the same to be done, so I do it to them. (Because I share emotionally on my terms, not anyone else's.)


Yes. This sort of behavior would actually make me angry. Either tell me what's wrong or drop it all together. I don't understand such behaviour, and I'll more likely interpret it as attention seeking of the worst kind. This gets the opposite desired reaction, and causes me to withdraw from them more. 

I'm the same as you. If something is wrong and I don't want to talk about it, I don't want people to ask me 5 times what's wrong...I want to be left alone. Or if I want/need to talk something out or rant, I'll talk about it when they ask me.


----------



## sodden (Jul 20, 2009)

Paradigm said:


> I _think _I've learned by now that sulking off and expecting someone to follow doesn't work (for me), so I haven't done it for years. Perhaps that's why I don't relate much to that part. If I'm angry, I want time to cool off. If I'm hurt, I definitely withdraw, but eventually (usually) have to say something to get the other party to apologize if I'm looking for it.
> 
> To be honest, I would rarely follow anyone who sulked off. I also refuse to "persuade" someone to share their feelings. I know a lot of people who go, "Siiigh, I'm so sad," and if they don't tell me what's wrong when I ask the first time (because they want me to ask five times), I drop the subject. To me, it's respecting their boundaries: I'd want the same to be done, so I do it to them. (Because I share emotionally on my terms, not anyone else's.)
> 
> I'm concerned / wondering how much being INTJ and 1w9-fixed is confusing the issue for me. My 4-fix can be virtually unnoticeable, too. I mean, _I know _I'm reactive, but sometimes it's hard to see it... Or perhaps hard to verbalize it.


See, if someone I care about is upset I want to help them make it go away so they'll feel better so I really won't let it go until they share and I can empathize. If someone just dwells in their sorrow ad infinitum I really want them to snap out of it. I do my fair share of brooding, to be sure (I have a solid 4-fix), but I don't like to be in it for too long, I'd much rather go for a walk outside and enjoy the sunshine and say hi to all the birds and trees I see along the way, ha ha.


----------



## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

Snow White said:


> LOL! I've said "go f*ck yourself!!!" in a moment of extreme volatility, but that was at a breaking point where my emotions were so high and extreme that all I could do was lash out. But even when I did that, it wasn't an expression of anger so much as a need to express how upset and hurt I am and to incite a reaction in the other person. I think 4-6-8s tend to push people in similar ways, but their motivations for doing it differ.
> 
> My SO is an 8, and when I tell her to leave me alone (she is a reactive type) she's like, "Fine. I'll really leave you alone and then you'll see what it's like." And then me: "NOO!!!! I'M SORRY!!!" It's that push/pull dynamic that 4s seem to be so good at. "GET AWAY FROM ME NO WAIT COME BACK WHY ARE YOU LEAVING ME OMG DON'T TOUCH ME YOU HATE ME" motif that can be oh-so-confusing (I imagine) for you 5s. It's because it's illogical. It's based purely on emotion and there aren't any attempts to excuse it, or hide it, or explain it. Unfortunately, it gives people the impression that you're a drama queen... or like... extremely unstable...


See, while I *am *very reactive, I don't really behave this way despite being SX-first. I keep all the drama inside me, because I don't like to show my vulnerability and neediness. Not sure what this is due to, perhaps gut fix? 

I get _extremely _uncomfortable expressing the extent to which I care, and how deeply I feel things. It's all implicit. On the surface, I might eventually admit that I didn't want them to let me go brood and sulk (I'll have a really hard time saying it though), but inside I'd be like "PLAKEUJFKDSMG WHY AREN'T YOU FOLLOWING ME OMG YOU DON'T CARE DO YOU"


----------



## madhatter (May 30, 2010)

Kito said:


> I just remembered a weird way in which I test people.
> 
> Whenever passing people I know, I almost _always_ give them a smile. I've come to realise that I do it to see where I stand with them. If they smile back, we're on good terms. If they don't, I need to avoid them because they're probably annoyed with me in some way. I think it's an sp 6 thing.


That's interesting. I usually give people I know a smile too, but I'm not testing people...I just do it as a form of acknowledgement. 
I'm not very effusive to begin with, but it doesn't take much effort on my part to smile. I started doing this when I realized how my expressionless face was being wildly misinterpreted.


----------



## Mizmar (Aug 12, 2009)

madhatter said:


> That's interesting. I usually give people I know a smile too, but I'm not testing people...I just do it as a form of acknowledgement.
> I'm not very effusive to begin with, but *it doesn't take much effort on my part to smile*. I started doing this when I realized how my expressionless face was being wildly misinterpreted.


Unfortunately, it does require a certain amount of effort on my part to smile unless I'm genuinely amused by something. My "smiles" are quite lazy, sort of half-smiles. Nonetheless, my motivation for smiling is the same as yours. They serve as a form of acknowledgement, not as a way to test people.


----------



## Paradigm (Feb 16, 2010)

Mizmar said:


> My "smiles" are quite lazy, sort of half-smiles.


This ^ I remember this because it was recently... My dad and I were watching some show (which is a rare event in itself), and it was pretty humorous, but when he was laughing I was just sort of barely smiling. I was definitely amused, but upon looking over at me to see my expression, he said, "Yeah, it's not _that _funny," in a sort of 'why aren't you laughing louder' tone. I just shrugged rather than try to explain.

I'm not sure if I use smiles to _test_ people. I know I use them to disarm people (nervous laughter, too, at times), but that's not the same thing.

---

For the uninformed, I would like to correct an earlier post in this thread. This was shared:


> Unlike a Five child, the young Four girl not genuinely want to be left alone. She stormed out of the room to see if her parents cared enough about her to chase after her. She was testing them. That’s what it means to be “reactive” in an enneagrammatic sense.


At first, I was adamant that I didn't relate to this. And, on the surface, I don't; I still stand by what I said prior. But I came to realize that I do a version of this at family gatherings. While everyone else is watching TV, I'm the one in the other room waiting for the time when we can actually spend quality time together. In this sense, I'm waiting for them to "follow" and engage me.


----------



## Vanishing Point (Oct 2, 2012)

kaleidoscope said:


> You know, intense here-and-now confrontations are amazing in the intensity and feeling like your partner cares just as much, but they can be really frustrating as well, as you'll keep going around and around in circles. Anything one will say will be taken a step further by the other, and so on and so forth. It can be exhausting, but it's still better than arguing with someone who _seems _unaffected.
> 
> Perhaps your partner is in the competency triad? I saw this table, and it might be helpful to you ^^
> 
> ...


Thank you for the link. My husband is the positive outlook type I can tell. It's frustrating at times.


----------



## Arya (Oct 17, 2012)

Kito said:


> I just remembered a weird way in which I test people.
> 
> Whenever passing people I know, I almost _always_ give them a smile. I've come to realise that I do it to see where I stand with them. If they smile back, we're on good terms. If they don't, I need to avoid them because they're probably annoyed with me in some way. I think it's an sp 6 thing.


I tend to smile at people too, but I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that someone was annoyed with me just because they didn't smile back. I'd probably first assume they were having a bad day or something like that. I'm sx though, and I'm more likely to hound someone if I think they are annoyed with me and find out why and do everything to fix that. (which is actually the number one reason why people get annoyed with me.)


----------



## RepairmanMan Man (Jan 21, 2012)

madhatter said:


> I'm not very effusive to begin with, but it doesn't take much effort on my part to smile. I started doing this when I realized how my expressionless face was being wildly misinterpreted.


Believe it or not, me too. I was about 25 years old before I realized I needed to develop "social skills" and actually attune myself to the people around me. Now I can't seem to make it go away--I've developed this real shiny facade of polished social skills which I am conflicted about to this day. *smiles*

I do find that a smile makes a pretty good test for determining where that person's mind is at, though. Good call @Kito.


----------



## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

I'm actually curious about how Eights get reactive, there's so little said about it. I assume it must manifest itself in the form of provoking someone over and over to get a genuine reaction out of them. I'm sure it must be done in a more upfront and direct way than other reactive types. Then again, 8s don't really test people, do they? 

@_Dark Romantic_, @_Grau the Great_ - I'd love to hear your thoughts about this. How do you get to the truth of a situation? Do you want your emotions mirrored in others? If so, how do you make that happen?


----------



## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

@_madhatter_

Do you think this could be more of an instinct thing? It seems like something an Sx-last would definitely do/say. My parents are both Sp/So's and 'not effusive' bothers me so much about them. I get so easily excited and passionate, to the point where I would get mistaken for a theater major a few times :laughing: I come off as expressive and somewhat theatrical (though it's genuine) and the contrast with my parents is really apparent.


----------



## Dark Romantic (Dec 27, 2011)

kaleidoscope said:


> I'm actually curious about how Eights get reactive, there's so little said about it. I assume it must manifest itself in the form of provoking someone over and over to get a genuine reaction out of them. I'm sure it must be done in a more upfront and direct way than other reactive types. Then again, 8s don't really test people, do they?
> 
> @_Dark Romantic_, @_Grau the Great_ - I'd love to hear your thoughts about this. How do you get to the truth of a situation? Do you want your emotions mirrored in others? If so, how do you make that happen?


To get to the truth of a situation, I usually state the conditions I see that aren't being addressed, and keep pushing until I get a response I'm satisfied with. I don't really put people through tests; there's just a point where I can see someone well enough to see if they're trustworthy under certain circumstances. Also, yes, I do like having my emotions mirrored, though not necessarily the type of emotion so much as the intensity level I want duplicated. What I'll do to make that happen depends entirely on the situation I'm in; in one situation, I might keep pushing until I either get the answer or a reaction, another time I might pour out whatever emotion I'm expressing, knowing that I'll get a reaction regardless, or I might just start messing with the person I'm interacting with.


----------



## Grau the Great (Mar 2, 2012)

kaleidoscope said:


> I'm actually curious about how Eights get reactive, there's so little said about it. I assume it must manifest itself in the form of provoking someone over and over to get a genuine reaction out of them. I'm sure it must be done in a more upfront and direct way than other reactive types. Then again, 8s don't really test people, do they?
> 
> I'd love to hear your thoughts about this. How do you get to the truth of a situation? Do you want your emotions mirrored in others? If so, how do you make that happen?


Well, to be honest, a lot of the time my reactivity isn't for the purpose of 'getting to the truth' anyway. It can be, but it's more typical of me to figure out what's going on ahead of time and make up my mind about the truth behind a particular situation.

With that said, I can better describe my own reactivity as making sure others are unhappy as well if there's something that's bothering me. For example, if I thought someone had gotten away with something unfairly, I'd have no problem antagonizing them until I believed they had 'paid' for it and were sufficiently miserable. Generally, this sort of thing focuses on issues of what's fair and so on. 

That example, also, is an interesting contrast to what you mentioned in your original question: I don't really test people or push for the truth; I generally only take action once something has definitively happened, so I'm actually 'reactive' in the other sense of the word as well. From what I can tell, this is more typical of Eights then either Fours or Sixes.

I can also sympathize with what @Dark Romantic said; in that I don't really have one usual 'method'. It could be a bunch of different things I might do, but the commonality is in taking action over a particular event that I believe to be unfair or unjust, in order to 'set things straight'.


----------



## Chipps (Jun 1, 2011)

Every time I've seen this thread, I thought I'd commented in it already. It seems I haven't. 


Contrary to I may seem online, I'm actually not a very reactive person. Though I will say its because I don't spend a lot of time around other people and surely none around people that grate my nerves. I'm also slower to react. Often, I think it seems that my reactions to things are instant, but in reality something has occurred numerous times and I've decided now to put an end to it. I don't know why though. I guess at the time I'm not fully aware as to how much something is annoying me until I've finally had enough. The first time, I think it registers as an annoyance subconsciously, but by the 5th its a fucking problem that I'm going to deal with. 

I also don't think I care to have my anger or feelings or reactivity mirrored by other people. Depending on the type of dispute, I can react in different ways. With people I don't know well or am not connected closely with I usually react to them and whatever bullshit they've presented to me scathingly. I guess its because I have no emotional investment to them and the fact that they are annoying me is 10X more offensive so they deserve the most brutal boot stomping possible. 

And then I can be reactive in regards to truth. Withholding or distorting truth in anyway is something I can not deal with. Even little distortions. Its like nails on a chalk board to my ears, or eyes if online. When people litter interactions or conversations with little lies it aggravates me and I can't help but to address it. Also, I think nothing is more cowardly than to hide from the truth no matter how big or small it is. When I catch people doing shit like this I can only help but to address it in the least tactful way possible. I've actually had people find this absolutely hilarious to cut them off mid bullshit story to tell what actually happened. Most though, get angry at me for blowing up their spot. People can bullshit to their hearts content as long is it isnt in my presence.

In regards to arguments with SO I find that I dont relate at all to what some other people here are saying. Depending on what caused the fall out, I'm likely to be ready to burn bridges and walk the hell away and never come back. If the person did something to upset me, I dont yell, scream or cry I just shut down and withdraw. I've never understood theatrical arguments. I can understand flipping out into a rage when justified, but freaking out over a lovers quarrel has always struck me as ridiculous. Anything, to me, thats going to cause a spike in blood pressure can just be ejected from my life, plain and simple.


----------



## madhatter (May 30, 2010)

kaleidoscope said:


> madhatter
> 
> Do you think this could be more of an instinct thing? It seems like something an Sx-last would definitely do/say. My parents are both Sp/So's and 'not effusive' bothers me so much about them. I get so easily excited and passionate, to the point where I would get mistaken for a theater major a few times :laughing: I come off as expressive and somewhat theatrical (though it's genuine) and the contrast with my parents is really apparent.


Oh, I'm sure it's an instinct thing at least partly. It takes a lot for me to gush. The last time I gushed, that I remember, is at Christmas, when I got my new Keurig coffee maker. It was a surprise, and I love surprises. I was very excited. But my 'gushing' in comparison to someone more emotive might not look like gushing. Also, this 'gushing', of showing my pleasure with something, is a conscious effort, a learned skill. I had to teach myself to show these emotions outwardly, especially with gifts, because I kept getting comments like, "Do you like it? Are you sure? If you don't like, we can take it back." To which I would have insist adamantly that I loved it. It gets old after a while. 

The part I don't think is instinctual is the 'testing' aspect, at least in this situation.


----------



## Vianna (Jul 28, 2012)

My pretty big problem is, that I am a neurotic person. I tend to explode like a bomb about really stupid and unimportant things. Also it is hard form me to handle emotionally diffucult situation... Something like emotional, or neurotic breakdown is common for me.


----------



## Arya (Oct 17, 2012)

Just thinking about this, and I was being pretty reactive yesterday. I was in a pretty negative mood about someone else yesterday, and all I wanted to do was contradict others and push that person into fighting with me. I guess I tend to like pushing others into fights because it clears the air and gets the truth out, thus clearing up my anxiety. It didn't end up happening though, and I'm over my negative mood right now.


----------



## zallla (Oct 11, 2011)

cosmia said:


> For reference:
> 
> The reactive types tend to want to get a reaction from others. When a reactive type is upset, they don't want the other person to stay calm. They want to see their negative emotions mirrored by others. They are often referred to as the "truth tellers of the enneagram" for the simple reason that reactive types can pick up on the more troubled aspects of a situation before other types do. If the positive outlook types err by focusing too much on the positive, reactive types can err by focusing too much on the negative. What they're seeing may, in fact, be there, but what comes across as barely perceptible to other types comes across like a flashing neon sign to the reactive types, and it's very difficult for them to not address it.
> 
> ...


I guess I'm a reactive type although it took me some time to see it. I have started to see how much trust issues I have and I think that at least sometimes I react emotionally to conflicts (most of which I find uncomfortable to be in), the emotional state of the other person affects me more easily than I would want. I also have troubles balacing my need for independence and my need for support. I fear both rejection and being dependent on others.

Whatever I'm communicating, whether there is any problems or not, I always, always, always want _some_ kind of reaction to it at least. But I want to avoid very emotional reactions since those make me feel uncomfortable - almost never do I express my own emotions so openly and strongly either. I think it's some kind of acknowledgement I need, some kind of response to what I have expressed. If I have a problem and someone seems to belittle the whole thing, I think I'll get pretty angry. But I don't know if I'd necessarily have to express it, depends on the level of my anger, I could also cut the connection or at least express with my behavior that there's that kind of risk.

I don't know how much others have problems with me because of my possible reactivity but I have problems with some Sixes I know. My mum and my SO both can complain about something I find completely unnecessary concern and it takes a lot of patience from me to join them. I try to empathize and I can tell that if I don't, they will feel hurt and rejected.


----------



## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

I relate to reactivity in some ways and not so much in others. 

*Relate:-*

1. I want my anger at a certain issue or person or whatever to be mirrored by whomever I am talking to. I don't care for any other emotion to be mirrored, but when I am angry, I want the other person to be angry or at least bothered about the same shit that's pissing me off. I feed off that charge and intensity. It excites me---"Let's be angry as fuck together. Do it. Join me in this pit of fury; wrestle it out with me haha." :laughing: I, literally, "feed" off anger, and I absolutely love it when someone gets as angry about something pertinent, considering dumb shit doesn't get to me, as I do. There may be some overlap here with my strong Sx second. If I am met with apathy, it leaves me agitated and then cold. 

Now, when I am angry "at" someone, I am alright with the person either remaining calm or meeting me at my intensity. What I don't like is dismissive behaviour. It's either disrespectful or plain pansy-like or both. 

2. I have a strong dislike of passive aggression and intentional evasiveness/mixed messages or such wildly contradictory messages that you'd have to be brain dead to not notice. Mind you, lying doesn't bother me unless we're close AND the lies are about important matters. I don't pay attention to inconsequential stuff. I don't care if someone has a multi-faceted personality or plays a lot of image games; in fact, I like that. But, I detest cowardly dishonesty where people will kiss your ass while going behind your back to start shit while you're walking around oblivious. 

For one, I don't read between the lines very well. Secondly, I err on the side of positivity unless the disrespect or lulz 'snark' is obvious. It strikes me as a total fuckin waste of time when people don't get to the damn point. And, if I see that bullshit repeated over time, I do confront it in a very "reactive" way. I can corner people and push them until they barf the truth. I do this even when I know what the "truth" is, as I fully intend to teach them a lesson on how to deal with me in future. 

I always say that _truth comes out in the heat of conflict._ I don't discount what people say when they're pissed off, because that's when the truth really shines, when they have the excuse to say "oh well I was just angry..I didn't mean it". Naah bitch lofl. Especially since I am assertive, a lot of people beat around the bush with me, and I keep functioning as normal, until one fine day when they start losing it because they've held it on too long for fear of confrontation. In other cases, pseudo-aggressive retards will try to test my patience or whatever poking around for a long time. I tend to brush this off. After a while, I turn around and verbally smack them ..which is when the show really goes down. :laughing: When cornered, people vomit what the real issue is. 

And, if that's how you want to be handled, be my guest. I'd rather communicate directly and effectively, aka being an adult about shit. I prefer a calm, honest and rational discussion. That doesn't deter me from pushing and cornering people who attempt to waste my time with their pansy ass antics. It's enjoyment to me. I'd much rather have people tell me how they feel, to my face, and as patient as I can be and as hard to truly stir as I am, it's funny how people find me as intimidating as they do. 

Some people who know me, even for a decade or more, haven't seen me angry (at them, anyway) even once. Though, at times, they do talk about my anger as some kind of spectre that looms in the background lol. I don't have to express it for them to know it's in there. With that said, I am not some loose cannon by a long shot. :laughing: I don't mind though. I am always happy to oblige anyone who'd rather go the 'let me get cornered and smacked' route. 

3. As you can see above, I, mostly unconsciously, use anger as a way of getting to the bottom line.

*Neutral:- (more withdrawn)*

4. In relationships (intimate), I have noticed that when I feel vulnerable or hurt (not disrespected because that I will address in an instant), I tend to withdraw. I am not comfortable showing vulnerability, so I tend to withdraw and become terse, dry etc. I don't, however, totally shut down or start giving people the 'silent treatment'. I don't like to admit it, but when I withdraw this way, I want my partner to help draw me out by making me feel emotionally comfortable. It helps when he shows vulnerability and leads by example. 

I don't react, with anger or whatever, just because I feel "hurt" a bit. So, I withdraw to take a deep breath and see if I am addressing things objectively. If during this time, and it could be a minute in all, I feel that I really do feel "hurt", I can find it hard to communicate because I don't like to make anyone, even my partner, to feel like they "got to me", as I said rare though it is for stuff to get to me. I can turn very stoic and cold. This is a reaction in itself. To a partner or person I respect or care for, I tell them how I felt anyway . An apology is all that's needed. 

Random fucks would get stonewalled or ignored, which is actually much more of an insult than dignifying their shit with a response. If they keep up with their shenanigans, I can toy with them until they crack, belittle them until they lose their shit and make an ass of themselves. If it's serious, which is uncommon, that gets an angry heavy handed response without much further ado. 
*
Don't relate:*

1) No issues with trust. I value trust, but I don't feel the need to push/challenge or subtly look for cues that confirm my intuition or whatever before trust is established. Your ass has it until you lose it. 

2) I am not in tune with what's beyond the facade. I take things at face value a lot. I do, however, have a long memory. I remember everything, so OTT hilarious contradictions will definitely register with me if you keep em up. I am not "looking" for it or scavenging for it or need to be in tune with it at all, but I can get people very well once I lock into them. It's hard to escape my notice, once I choose to focus attention on you or if you're a ludicrous case of wild laughable inconsistencies. I think @_kaleidoscope_ has an eye for this, too. 

3) I am usually the last to notice that negativity is brewing. @_Chipps_ and I have had fun conversations about this. :laughing: I do catch on eventually, but again, it eludes me for a while. Or when I do notice, I brush it off or rationalize it as..."oh i am awesome. why would they care to cross me..bleh..keeps moving." It comes and bites me in the ass later, but that's the initial reaction. I tend not to be a broken record when it comes to making such mistakes though. I learn. Move on.


----------

