# ENFP Leaving a marriage



## Jamieboy (6 mo ago)

0.M.I.A.0 said:


> Well fair on some points
> 
> There are probably similarities in that you may not be compatible. I do not relate to you on this love thing you feel so easy  . Not saying I have not had any infatuations, or fallen in love. I have. But your timeline with this lovebug seems very extreme 🙃
> 
> ...


Thanks for responding, I hope you can see from my previous posts that I provide detail for context, the mistakes I've made, the thought processes that lead me here. 

I hope you can see that if I was just after the new shiny I wouldn't be all agnsty about my current situation. Yes, I fall hard and fast, but prior to 2019, that love was unwavering for 15 nearly 16 years. I'm not suffering from grass is greener, I have had some experiences that have made me question why I'm generally unfulfilled in my life and my personal relationship.

Like you, the list of things where we are very different is mounting, and I wonder now, without the distraction of being attracted to someone else if this will work long term. Im having a hard time processing this because like you I love my wife. I care for her deeply and don't wish to hurt her. 

I wonder, how did your ex react when you ended things, was there acceptance or did he resist the end of your marriage? What were the financial ramifications for you and him?


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## Joe Black (Apr 1, 2015)

@Jamieboy Thanks for being raw and honest. I actually get you. I'm married to someone who's my polar opposite. At some point, I wished I had married someone else. Almost 10 years of marriage, 3 kids, almost 39yo.

I think some of the difficulty comes from having kids. They just create this distance between myself and my wife. Your kids are probably a bit older, and now you might have had more breathing space to be with your wife, only to find that you've grown apart. I think kids can do that.

My wife and I are trying our best to have 1 night a week to spend together. A date night.

This movie is about a couple that fell out of love and seek a therapist to get back together.








Hope Springs (2012) - IMDb


Hope Springs: Directed by David Frankel. With Meryl Streep, Tommy Lee Jones, Steve Carell, Jean Smart. After thirty years of marriage, a middle-aged couple attends an intense, week-long counseling session to work on their relationship.




www.imdb.com




I encourage you check it out.
Casts: Meryl Streep Tommy Lee Jones, Steve Carell (the love doctor, ironically)

(accidentally saved)

Reigniting the flames just takes time. Starts with simple things like touch. Talking. Time. But most importantly, the will to make it work.

At some point, I adopted a "takers mentality" where I was looking to satisfy myself only, and that lead to despair and loss. (unbeknown to my wife). But found that adopting a giving mindset solved everything. Takers mentality asks "why aren't others able to give me what I want?" and givers is "how can I enhance and improve other's lives" when focused on your spouse shifts your thinking. If you constantly ask yourself, "How can I make my spouse happier today than yesterday" or "How can I understand my spouse better?", "How does my spouse's mind work?', "how can I encourage her", "how can I be less of a pain in the ass?", "how can I learn from this fight to not upset her like this again?" etc, it takes the attention off yourself and off your problems and the shortcomings of others.

The strange thing, is that EVERYONE has a givers mentality (sort of) during dating phase because you're trying to win someone over, so you naturally want to please them and wonder how (more accurately a give in order to take mentality - but the mind sort of thinks it's in giving mode). But at some point, you take things for granted and start to ask,"why aren't they awesome?" and you see all the flaws.

A heart can be "trained" you can train your heart to love, give, be thankful or to take and criticise or be un-thankful.

(This is all in the context of a non-imploding, destructive marriage. No offence to those who've had a psycho spouse who's unwilling to be better.)


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## Jamieboy (6 mo ago)

Joe Black said:


> @Jamieboy Thanks for being raw and honest. I actually get you. I'm married to someone who's my polar opposite. At some point, I wished I had married someone else. Almost 10 years of marriage. 3 kids here. I'm almost 39yo.
> 
> I think some of the difficulty comes from having kids. They just create this distance between myself and my wife. Your kids are probably a bit older, and now you might have had more breathing space to be with your wife only to find that you've grown apart. I think kids can do that.
> 
> ...


Hey Joe, thanks for responding, I think for us, our children are what kept us strong, we both love being parents, although me more than her if im honest, understandable as she was primary care giver, I work more hours. We definitely sacrificed our relationship for the benefit of our children, we used to take a kind of odd pride that we never took time away from the kids, and on the rare occasions we did we would feel guilty. 

People often counsel to look at why you were attracted in the first place, but I think that is a fools errand, we were both in our early twenties back then, we partied and such. Im definitely not that guy anymore, I prefer culture, debate, the great outdoors. I'm just not the guy I was nearly 20 years ago. Or maybe I am, but im now more at ease with who I always was.

I've yet to have a the conversation with my wife, im waiting for the weekend so we have uninterrupted time.


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## Joe Black (Apr 1, 2015)

Jamieboy said:


> Hey Joe, thanks for responding, I think for us, our children are what kept us strong, we both love being parents, although me more than her if im honest, understandable as she was primary care giver, I work more hours. We definitely sacrificed our relationship for the benefit of our children, we used to take a kind of odd pride that we never took time away from the kids, and on the rare occasions we did we would feel guilty.


Kids are funny factor...
The wisdom we get from those older and wiser was to prioritise the marriage ABOVE the kids. Kids can become the "project", which can cover over something else that needs more work. So it feels like things are ok for a time.
Having regular checkups/tune-ups etc... weekly, monthly, yearly, 5 years etc...

But yes, we change.


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## Jamieboy (6 mo ago)

Joe Black said:


> Kids are funny factor...
> The wisdom we get from those older and wiser was to prioritise the marriage ABOVE the kids. Kids can become the "project", which can cover over something else that needs more work. So it feels like things are ok for a time.
> Having regular checkups/tune-ups etc... weekly, monthly, yearly, 5 years etc...
> 
> But yes, we change.


Advise I wish I and especially my wife had been given long ago. Hindsight is 20/20 but not sure it would have made a huge difference, my kids and family are what kept us together it seems, that and shared values.


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## Joe Black (Apr 1, 2015)

Jamieboy said:


> Advise I wish I and especially my wife had been given long ago. Hindsight is 20/20 but not sure it would have made a huge difference, my kids and family are what kept us together it seems, that and shared values.


Sorry for putting salt on your wound. It's already done and you can't take it back. Sorry things turned out that way for you.


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## Jamieboy (6 mo ago)

No salt, I have many happy memories, no regrets, just fears for my future


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## Joe Black (Apr 1, 2015)

Jamieboy said:


> fears for my future


What kind of fears do you have for your future? (Unless you've already mentioned it?)


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## islandlight (Aug 13, 2013)

Jamieboy said:


> People often counsel to look at why you were attracted in the first place, but I think that is a fools errand, we were both in our early twenties back then, we partied and such. Im definitely not that guy anymore


I agree with this. We might not like doing the same things now, or be able to do them. We and our spouses have changed. We might have been attracted for mistaken reasons, or reasons that no longer exist or are no longer important.

The challenge is to deal with the confusing present and the unknowable future. Good luck.


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## Jamieboy (6 mo ago)

Joe Black said:


> What kind of fears do you have for your future? (Unless you've already mentioned it?)


To sum it up as succinctly as possible, I am a social animal, I draw my energy from being with and interacting with people, my wife is not, she would in our youth come along for the ride so to speak, where as now its a struggle to get her to do anything that requires the effort to interact. She has let all her friendships lapse, but she seems happy with the way things are. 

Since we got back together, she made an effort to join me in some activities. Weekly yoga being one, I have no interest in it really, but thought it would be a happy medium that we could enjoy together. 

We had to stop going because of a lock down, but when it reopened, she excused herself from the first session then never mentioned it again. 

Another example, is after I lost my sister, my sisters partner and I have been arranging quiz nights out with my niece, something we did together when my sister was alive, I asked my wife to attend, but she had to be cajoled until the point where I didn't really want her to come anymore, she often complains of tiredness or being too busy. 

Its all so depressing that I need to live my life like this, I want her to participate in my life and me in hers.

She used to hold me back from doing the things I enjoy, but not since we reunited, I just inform rather than ask. 

I do my share with the kids and providing, so I feel no guilt anymore. Just sadness.

I fear more of the same, until the day I die


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## eeo (Aug 25, 2020)

Jamieboy said:


> Since we got back together, she made an effort to join me in some activities. Weekly yoga being one, I have no interest in it really, but thought it would be a happy medium that we could enjoy together.
> 
> We had to stop going because of a lock down, but when it reopened, she excused herself from the first session then never mentioned it again.
> 
> ...


Did she join because she wanted to do those things, or because she thought you wanted to do those things? Isn't there anything she likes to do that you would gladly join in, and vice versa? It's okay not to like the same things, but you'd have to at least find something enjoyable to do together, and do the rest either alone or in other groups. 

When you've shared these exact feelings with her is she really unwilling to change anything? How about you, what are you willing to change so that she wouldn't feel so tired and busy? I'd love to hear her side of the story. I bet she's depressed about living her life like this as well. 

It's possible to fall in love with your partner over and over again during a long relationship, and emerge as a stronger couple after infidelity. But both of you need to either work together on fixing your relationship or go your separate ways. There really is no point in being miserable and doing nothing about it or expecting the other half to do something, anything.


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## Joe Black (Apr 1, 2015)

Jamieboy said:


> To sum it up as succinctly as possible, I am a social animal, I draw my energy from being with and interacting with people, my wife is not, she would in our youth come along for the ride so to speak, where as now its a struggle to get her to do anything that requires the effort to interact. She has let all her friendships lapse, but she seems happy with the way things are.
> 
> Since we got back together, she made an effort to join me in some activities. Weekly yoga being one, I have no interest in it really, but thought it would be a happy medium that we could enjoy together.
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear that buddy.
It does take 2 to tango.

What does she say? 
What's her response to:

your request for her to participate?
your feelings about everything?
you wanting to leave?
what's her opinion of you? What does she think about you?


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## Jamieboy (6 mo ago)

Joe Black said:


> Sorry to hear that buddy.
> It does take 2 to tango.
> 
> What does she say?
> ...


I'll let you know when we have had that conversation, I hope its a productive one, but I understand some of what I say would be painful for me to hear. So I expect the same reaction from my wife.


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## MsMojiMoe (Apr 7, 2021)

Well, first of all, others had made value points…12-18 years of being together assuming she has always been loyal,….really do think about it before making an impulsive decision. You do seem to catch feelings fast for others suddenly, or maybe you were just narrowing it down… make sure you really don’t “ feel it“ anymore, it’s not a phrase…..it’s been like this for at least 2 years (2020j ... Bc staying in a relationship you’re not into is bad for everyone esp in the long run.

Marriage is so unnatural but society will make it seem its evil to treat it as such. They will shame you for it even though it’s the truth. Ppl change…like even if you two use to like the same things, same hobbies it doesn’t mean you wont change…



I’m going to go on a rant about marriage…skip it if you want, I marked with dotting lines the beginning and ending…I continue more on the OP after

i know you and most, if not all others, don’t believe this and if it’s defensive to anyone well, I m Defended by you…so warning…I did be as respectful as possible ( I’m very nice) ..but i adding this bc you the OP is in this situation bc of this horrible tradition…I know it’s normal, most ppl I know are married, friends, family…so I don’t like it, but it’s not like I’m going to try to ban it or anything…we all live our own experiences….
——————————-


this will be very unpopular but I wouldn’t be much of an INFP if I always followed societies traditions…

this is fact:
Marriage is man-made/ and feeling /emotions/ mental state are real and can cause real harm to you and others if ignored…. …it’s a tradition and was created that made women property, non-human beings, to ensure the He can own her and only he could mate with her to ensure his offspring…pure evil/ a form of slavery, lack of any regards to her. Later, like in the Middle Ages Very Religious reasoning…we had to give up our surnames *symbolize surrendering her identity*,( taking her self esteem,) and making the man more important, basically creating disharmony, ( been taught to hate ourselves for men) and our fathers GAVE us away, to give up all her self interest and just serve man and HIS children.

Of course, so many men support, treating women like crap bc of Men own fear and must control. Weak men ( not strong ones) love to abuse and take advantage of women esp low self esteem women.

like am I the only one sane …..I mean, seriously, it’s so hard for others to see how unnatural and disturbing this tradition is.And why ppl like me think it’s a horrible tradition…seriously…i Actually have to explain this, others should have to explain to me why we practice such beastly tradition that was meant to undermined me and my human experience…..I have self esteem, no amount of propaganda, pop reality show , or grooming, etc is going to make me ignore this tradition ….so, why practice something “for tradition sake” where the actually tradition I wouldn’t wish on my worst enemy. Everyone is backwards.

plus I could never respect someone who never had respect for me, marriage is disrespectful traditions towards women…could Never trust a man that had such disrespect or not enough sense to know what “the tradition” of marriage is about, too ignorant for me….( men are very impressionable too) you just follow the crowd bc that’s what everyone does….weak…..I don’t need someone so gullible around, they will only piss me off in the worse way….which brings me to loyalty…well not yet.

love doesn’t need marriage, rasing kids doesn’t need marriage…what is needed is healthy/respectful/responsible ppl and can work together to raise a child, or not force in marriage. Marriage doesn’t make one more responsible but can give a false sense

why in the hell would I want to enter or belong to a disguising tradition. Yeah, I know thru pop media they got so many gullible women believing “It’s their day”, and so many women eat it up, so stupid…puke and I’m sorry but a lot of women are too impressionable, we been groom most of our lives to think less of ourselves….you throw like a girl, you cry like a girl…and so on. …I mean, unfortunately it’s true. I mean look at all these ppl like Oprah, Ellen, mostly women hang on her every word and BUY anything they sell them. Or cults, mega churches most members are women…or who follow gurus, even the yoga guru in the 80s and of course they are always being abuse by the leaders, mostly men, think Charles Manson, David Koresh or the anthill kids…so many…or rock stars like lostprophets where women gave their toddlers up to be sexual abuse for a guys attention…women grooming their own daughtersand giving their minor daughters permission to marry ppl like Elvis Presley, Jimmy Page, Ted Nugget, R. Kelly, and I can name many more…so women are easily control and impressionable….( our biggest weakness as females)….bc we been condition for thousands of years to not care about our self-interest, or education or to think for ourselves , obey….you don’t matter….( generic dna mermory, may be responsible for this) ..it causes hell in my life still in todays society…bc I’m the one who has to explain why I don’t like this tradition when it’s seem so obvinous how awful this is…like why. Don’t say for the kids like a true puppet .

————rant done


now, I didn’t read everyone comments…( just some on the first page,) oh it brought back so many horrible memories…I never would married, and I got …”it’s my duty, and the whole loyalty thing, and I’m selfish,” and questions like…” when you get older you will want blah, blah….” You don’t know what someone will want when their older, what about there life now. They were wrong in my case. And so glad I never followed their advice.

which brings me to loyalty, I hate this word, I wrote a rant on here before about it….loyalty will make you stay in situations you know isn’t right, will make you follow ppl or turn the blind eye to even when they are doing something bad…if my partner unnecessarily kill, hurt, rape , or child rape someone I wouldn’t be loyal but the actually definition is that…if you are loyal you would be loyal…no, I use the word “true” instead bc ppl change, things happen …so instead…”I will be true to you”….meaning I will not cheat, and I will stat TRUE to my principles…so I’m with ya until you unnecessarily do something awful like a mass shooting, or/and as long as I’m still feeling it, if I stop feeling it, I will tell them, instead the leading them on or suppress my one and only life..
_*i might not be loyal but I WILL be true .*_

and that’s what I would tell you…be true, to yourself and feelings , to her ( doesnt mean stay) , the situation, your kids …find what that is, learn from it. Remember your character matters ( its with you for life), its ok to make an honest mistake, but you are responsible for yourself and also emotionally responsible for The pain you cause others...acknowledge the mistakes …acknowledge what you feel is right in the long run… Your children are watching and learning….remember, be someone you can live with…all your choices and how you respond to mishaps etc.

i wouldn’t want someone to stay with me bc they didn’t want to hurt me, at the end of the day, yeah it’s going to hurt, I will be pissed at first but i will grow from this….to want someone there even if they don’t love me is very low self esteem…ppl should care about helping ppl becoming stronger and not keep them in this state of falsehoods.

18 years is a long time to leave, but it’s not like you can’t still care for or about her…emotionally or whatever…you can still be around together esp since you got kids. She probably scared, tho, can she care for herself or has she become dependent on you????
no matter what you do, you’re going to be the “bad guy”, theres no perfect answer to something so tangle in this tradition way of thinking/ unnatural way….your damn if you stay and damn if you don’t which one can YOU live with in the long run…don’t let fear run your life, I will stay bc it will hurt her too much…that kind of reasoning is fear. I mean it’s noble but rooted in fear.

if you are certain this isn’t some phase, but the feeling is gone ( that’s my problem, and No one gets it), like oh, it takes work, ( like no shit) but if I don’t feel that spark or interest just roommates it’s creepy, and sickening….and it’s unfair to you and that person to stay together. You will only grow resentful, depression, angry ( what’s happens when you ignore your emotions), it’s fake/untrue/a lie …you will be keeping her in low self esteem, to me that’s a bad example for kids….teach each other to be strong on their own, she can be strong on her own, but she might need your help at first… so when they do get in relationship, it’s not their only identity, teach ppl how to work together, again not my forcing others to stay in a situation they know isn’t right. Just bc your divorce doesn’t mean you can’t work together.

anyways, I’m done


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## islandlight (Aug 13, 2013)

@Jamieboy It does sound like a mismatch. When we're young, many of us party, try different things, and discuss certain things. So it's easier to make friends, see similarities, and form bonds. But as we get older, our preferences and personalities take different directions.

I can kind of relate to your wife. I think she mostly wants continuity and having you around, without either of you placing great demands on the other. In another thread, I commented that I wasn't compatible with certain types who might "drag me around" to air shows and Christmas parties and such. When I got married, I was a single parent, and mostly I wanted someone to keep me company at home. Then it turned out that my husband wanted someone to go out and socialize with!

And I don't want to discuss loyalty, future, and other relationship issues, because I take them for granted. Your wife welcomed you back, and for her that's it, case closed.

I do want an interesting life, but I don't place great demands on the partner or the relationship. 

I can see that you are coming from a very different place at this time in your life.

As I said previously, no one can predict the future, but we can kind of see where this is heading.


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## ESFJMouse (Oct 13, 2020)

Just some random thoughts, maybe some is applicable, maybe not, but I wanted to try to help.
Many people are in marriages where their partner travels for work, and is gone 50% of the time. Or they are married to someone who has to work 12+ hours a day or on night shifts. They just create a life where they are learning new things and enjoying their friends and hobbies. I think your wife really loves you, and your marriage might have always been like this to some extent, but now that you have raised your children to near adulthood you are noticing it more, since you have the time to do so. Maybe it is not your marriage at all. Maybe it is that nothing is new and novel anymore, in which case you can fix that. If you are SX this is even more important. The thing with life is that you should always always be an 'apprentice' at something! During the pandemic I decided to learn French methods and techniques of cooking, and got really into it. Anyways, find something to focus on and then tell your wife all about it. She will probably love that. Accept her for who she is, and try to craft a life that interests you and maybe she will share in it, maybe not. Anyways, for some people 40s is just getting into the fun of life. You are seasoned in your career (maybe that is the issue; you need something new and fresh), and hopefully have more resources, so try to really savor every minute.


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## Jamieboy (6 mo ago)

ESFJMouse said:


> Just some random thoughts, maybe some is applicable, maybe not, but I wanted to try to help.
> Many people are in marriages where their partner travels for work, and is gone 50% of the time. Or they are married to someone who has to work 12+ hours a day or on night shifts. They just create a life where they are learning new things and enjoying their friends and hobbies. I think your wife really loves you, and your marriage might have always been like this to some extent, but now that you have raised your children to near adulthood you are noticing it more, since you have the time to do so. Maybe it is not your marriage at all. Maybe it is that nothing is new and novel anymore, in which case you can fix that. If you are SX this is even more important. The thing with life is that you should always always be an 'apprentice' at something! During the pandemic I decided to learn French methods and techniques of cooking, and got really into it. Anyways, find something to focus on and then tell your wife all about it. She will probably love that. Accept her for who she is, and try to craft a life that interests you and maybe she will share in it, maybe not. Anyways, for some people 40s is just getting into the fun of life. You are seasoned in your career (maybe that is the issue; you need something new and fresh), and hopefully have more resources, so try to really savor every minute.


Thank you for taking the time to weigh in, there is some truth to what your saying, work wise I have reached the top of my profession and that does irk me. I do yearn for a new challenge. Im always finding new things to learn and do away from work. I just wish to share some of that with my partner.


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

Jamieboy said:


> Thanks for responding, I hope you can see from my previous posts that I provide detail for context, the mistakes I've made, the thought processes that lead me here.
> 
> I hope you can see that if I was just after the new shiny I wouldn't be all agnsty about my current situation. Yes, I fall hard and fast, but prior to 2019, that love was unwavering for 15 nearly 16 years. I'm not suffering from grass is greener, I have had some experiences that have made me question why I'm generally unfulfilled in my life and my personal relationship.
> 
> ...


Frankly I think you got good words of wisdom from many users. Especially JoeBlack.

Really my main point was about the falling for people easily and relationship rebounding thing. As for whether you should or should not be in your marriage or not, well that is for you to figure out. I really do not think that I have much to weigh in on as for whether or not to stay. I was just saying to focus on figuring out what you want before falling for people romantically.

Marriage is hard, there is not usually a one size fits all answer to it.

When you shared more stories on you and your wife I could sorta relate to each of you a bit here or there.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

Jamieboy said:


> I absolutely respect your opinion, but having someone who is loyal but doesn't meet your needs, I feel is doing a disservice to both you and them, we just don't have any shared interests anymore, I have tried, as an ENFP, I have lots to get excited about, but can't get my wife to join me in any of them. I feel torn between enjoying my life/hobbies and spending time with her, they never intersect anymore. It makes me so sad.


I'm going to be a bit harsh here but:

When you are getting excited about things and going off to do life/hobbies--how often do you get a babysitter and pay for it yourself so that your wife can join you?

You have kids.

I've worked with lots of families and this stuff causes stress--perhaps your wife feels she must buckle down and take care of stuff while you're off enjoying things, and newsflash--that also destroys libido for her.

So I would like to ask you--how many times per month do you get a sitter or a house-cleaner to take care of the domestic stuff so that your wife can go off and enjoy hobbies with you or alone?

Obviously she won't be able to if she's left with the responsibility, and on top of that she will also be left drained of libido and vitality.

Have you tried getting a sitter one day per week so you can go out and have fun? Have you tried getting a housecleaner so she can have a break? She may want to have fun and do hobbies and interests, but she won't be able to do it if she's saddling the responsibilities while you're off trying to find meaning and enjoy life.

These things cause stress to anyone but if you really want to give her a chance, you need to give her space to breath too. Otherwise you are just penalizing her for taking on the responsibilities for the both of you.

If you've reached the top of your profession, you should be able to help your spouse whose been taking care of things at home so you can be free. It's unfair to just let her rot while you reject her for that. How often does she get a chance to get out? 

Find a babysitter and book them for one day a week for the next five months, and pay for it if you're so top of your profession, and then let her grow her wings too, whether with or without you.


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## Jamieboy (6 mo ago)

WickerDeer said:


> I'm going to be a bit harsh here but:
> 
> When you are getting excited about things and going off to do life/hobbies--how often do you get a babysitter and pay for it yourself so that your wife can join you?
> 
> ...


I'm going to be harsh too, but, you haven't bothered to read the entire thread and just weighed in with your shitty assumptions. 

You don't know me, or bothered to read, just probably read the first post and filled in the blanks to suit your narrative. OUR KIDS ARE TEENS! THEY DONT NEED A SITTER. Also, we are not poor, I earn well, we live in a big house, which one of MY conditions for moving to, was we had a cleaner so it wouldn't impact on our personal time. 

I work 50 to 60 hours a week, my wife works 30 and does 80% of the washing and ironing, and zero maintenance. Don't you dare tell me all my problems are caused because I'm a shitty selfish husband


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## ai.tran.75 (Feb 26, 2014)

Jamieboy said:


> This is exactly correct, she never expresses extremes of emotion, I have seen her cry 3 times in our time together, one was during child birth, once during pregnancy, and once when we separated and I told her I was dating someone else.
> 
> Thank you again for your insight, im finding many of the responses very helpful, including yours, obviously .
> 
> ...



My husband is also a Ti dom . And I was extremely close with my intp grandmother . 
I can kinda understand your struggle - based on personal experiences, Ti dom are horrid with comforting my emotions- ironically, I’m wonderful at comforting theirs( I’m referring to the one that I know personally) , so in a way it may feel - kinda unfair or unbalanced . However - 
I don’t need my life partner to support my emotions. I have other outlets for that . I do need one that supports my passion, share the same values as I do ( and fortunately for me I’ve found my person) 
With fi - I believe most enfp tend to share our stories to relieve stress or speak out our thoughts rather than ask for advice , many times my husband would try to solve a problem (Ti) rather than listen - which could be very frustrating. I most definitely put more effort into keeping our relationship pleasant and he knows that I push more effort into it ( the whole family does , my mother in law prefer me over my husband ) . I have a feeling that your wife also feel that you put more effort into your relationship than she did for the past 17 years . Many of the other people who comment , don’t realize that the reason you said you tried so hard is due to you knowing for a fact that your wife felt the same way. You did put in more effort - to the point that you live for that person - all the way until something tragic happen only to realize that missing support . Your wife also put in a lot of effort and she loves you so much - hence it’s hard for you to let go . 

I disagree with mbti pairings though - unlike you - My relationship with my husband have always been strong . Ixtp can be verbal and expressive - it’s just a hit or miss on whom they choose to show those emotions to .

My husband loves me deeply , he’s very verbal about his appreciation and course his actions is even louder than his words . And with the exception of him not being able to comfort my emotional need - we do connect mentally- physically and emotionally in other ways ( in the sense of values and ethics ) . And he’s my best friend. We talk to each other for 2-6 hours - since we first started dating - until now . I do feel like communication- is the main reason why our relationship is so successful. He knows for a fact that I chose to not share my emotions with him bc I don’t find comfort in it - he’s not happy about it , and he does feel guilty for never 
being able to provide that . I truly believe you tried your best , I do feel like I was bias when I first read your post - but after reading the entire thread, I empathize with your reasoning . 

With all that said - I can relate with your wife on many factors - with the matter of crying . I don’t think this is cognitively related. My husband saw me cried once - throughout the 17 years that we’ve been together ( Im also an enfp ) . It happened bc he walked in on it and kept on asking questions - I don’t really enjoy crying in front of others - it’s uncomfortable . It’s not that I have trusts issues - but I honestly prefer to cry alone . I didn’t cry at my grandmother’s funeral back in 2019- everyone knew that I was grieving the most ( I’m still grieving ). 

Likewise when it comes to going out . My husband and I have completely different hobbies and came from different walks of life . We never really go out together - unless it’s fine dining or we’re out traveling somewhere, most of our relationship have been spent at home in front of the television . I have my own group of friends- he has his own group of friends . I get really annoyed when he drags me along to one of his friend’s party . And like your wife - my kids are my main priority- my husband better understand that . 

I’m truly sorry about your relationship with your wife - I do know that you care for her deeply and despite falling out of love - she must still be extremely important to you , I wish you best of luck regarding what happens next and I strongly resonate with this last quote of yours 


“I always try to build people up when they ask for help, even if they have made mistakes” 

I suggest for you to venture into the enfp forum - just to hang or chat or give insights and hope you stay around . Best of luck 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Joe Black (Apr 1, 2015)

ai.tran.75 said:


> He knows for a fact that I chose to not share my emotions with him bc I don’t find comfort in it - he’s not happy about it , and he does feel guilty for never
> being able to provide that .


Ooh! I can relate to this! This is how I feel about my ISTJ wife. I tried to share feelings - but nah. We're each a strange paradoxical mix of warm and cold, and together a beautiful paradoxical mix of warm and cold - hard to pin down in words. ❤ (I've used many emojis on this forum but this is my first love heart emoji! That's saying something - of all times...)


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## ENFPathetic (Apr 3, 2018)

Joe Black said:


> I've never been an ENFP married to an INTP before, so perhaps the INTPs like @islandlight and ENFPs like @Llyralen And @ai.tran.75 @ENFPathetic (and other like types) might be able to shed more helpful insight on how to move forward?


I don't think he needs it. There are a lot of things I would say, but it seems like he already gets it. For example, his wife has probably lost her passion for life and he's going to need to reignite her passion. He has the natural ability to do that, but not in his current state. Before he can coax his wife out of her comfort zone, he needs to reignite his own passion for life. It seems he's already been taking steps towards that but perhaps got a little impatient with wanting things to move a bit quicker, which is quite natural.

However, based on the last set of posts he shared, he seems to have cleared his head. He's planning on cutting his wife some slack and focusing on himself. I mentioned going on holiday and doing charity work just in case he's lost for ideas, but as long as his head is clear he'll have a better understanding of what will work best for him. I may be projecting, but I could relate to a lot of what he was posting and I'm convinced he won't have any trouble coming up with practical solutions. I genuinely think he just needed to think out loud and clear his head.


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## Joe Black (Apr 1, 2015)

ENFPathetic said:


> I don't think he needs it. There are a lot of things I would say, but it seems like he already gets it. For example, his wife has probably lost her passion for life and he's going to need to reignite her passion. He has the natural ability to do that, but not in his current state. Before he can coax his wife out of her comfort zone, he needs to reignite his own passion for life. It seems he's already been taking steps towards that but perhaps got a little impatient with wanting things to move a bit quicker, which is quite natural.
> 
> However, based on the last set of posts he shared, he seems to have cleared his head. He's planning on cutting his wife some slack and focusing on himself. I mentioned going on holiday and doing charity work just in case he's lost for ideas, but as long as his head is clear he'll have a better understanding of what will work best for him. I may be projecting, but I could relate to a lot of what he was posting and I'm convinced he won't have any trouble coming up with practical solutions. I genuinely think he just needed to think out loud and clear his head.


I'm glad! I guess it's a matter of time then? Ay @Jamieboy ?


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## Jamieboy (6 mo ago)

Thank you all for the supportive comments, I feel very sad at the moment, but hopefully time and patience (not a strength) will lead me to a better place emotionally. 

I recognise the symptoms of depression in me, but im committed to doing the little things that slowly bring about positive change. 

Its times like this when I wished I believed in a higher power, I envy the certainty that it provides.

Thanks @ai.tran.75 for your beautiful post, it touched my heart.


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## Necrofantasia (Feb 26, 2014)

Aarya said:


> Crying isn't an extreme emotion. It is a natural response, which needs to be "trained out" to not manifest.


.
Yikes. Crying is something of a biological pressure relief mechanism intended to limit emotional overload. You can work on framing things differently and having a broader portfolio of coping mechanisms to use as a first response but "Training yourself" out of it is on par with training yourself not to sweat.




> Assuming that menopause and period are the same thing clearly shows your knowledge.


Yes because that's totally what's happening.
There's parallels between them and you seem ignorant enough to be dogmatic about menstruation too.



> Why not try to think "_people should understand their bodies better in order to not overreact or know how to manage it without painful mood swings_", instead of "_changes in the body don't exist, they don't influence you, they are not supposed to influence you_". Surprisingly, a change of mood is natural with body changes and has some evolutionary advantages, depending on how they're applied. Google "endocrine system" (humans). Cheers.


Wow you're the gift that keeps on giving with these hair trigger assumptions. Of course women are ignorant of the bodies they've managed their whole lives and never asked or read a thing about them. Good thing you know better than all of them for you have Google.

Fucking yikes with the mansplaining of batshit insanity in this thread. Cheers.


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## Tridentus (Dec 14, 2009)

ENFPathetic said:


> I don't think he needs it. There are a lot of things I would say, but it seems like he already gets it. For example, his wife has probably lost her passion for life and he's going to need to reignite her passion. He has the natural ability to do that, but not in his current state. Before he can coax his wife out of her comfort zone, he needs to reignite his own passion for life. It seems he's already been taking steps towards that but perhaps got a little impatient with wanting things to move a bit quicker, which is quite natural.
> 
> However, based on the last set of posts he shared, he seems to have cleared his head. He's planning on cutting his wife some slack and focusing on himself. I mentioned going on holiday and doing charity work just in case he's lost for ideas, but as long as his head is clear he'll have a better understanding of what will work best for him. I may be projecting, but I could relate to a lot of what he was posting and I'm convinced he won't have any trouble coming up with practical solutions. I genuinely think he just needed to think out loud and clear his head.


I highly agree with this.

I'm well aware and not arrogant enough to pass judgement on a situation as deep as this when I haven't been through anything similar, and I understand there will be many intricacies that despite your best efforts can't quite be translated into a few paragraphs.. It's really a low resolution form of communication for what contains high resolution details, and therefore mistranslation is easy and somewhat inevitable in this. I can just offer my 2 cents on life in general.

It's really astonishing the variance in capabilities of the human mind when full compared to when running dry as you've suggested. I suspect "thinking out loud" on here will have helped a fair bit, and I second taking opportunities to "recharge" yourself- doing some charity work and getting a change of scenery may be far more effective than some might expect if they have been in an entrenched situation because you can't see the woods from the trees, so if possible I would second that, your gut may reject it as a waste of time, but it might be a strategically efficient decision if it can restore you psychologically- the human brain is 100x, 1000x, more efficient and more clear sighted if this can be achieved.

However, I appreciate with kids and a business that you have responsibilities.

Perhaps if you see it as an investment to gain a potential return it might really be worth trying. You know how superhuman you can be when your spirit is restored, and have memory of how difficulties can be made easier through this perspective. Of course, if this discourse has been enough to form a clear course just go with that, it's ultimately your call (obviously).


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## Aarya (Mar 29, 2016)

I'm actually enjoying this haha.


Necrofantasia said:


> "Training yourself" out of it [crying] is on par with training yourself not to sweat.


I already know you didn't do biology in school, so let's leave it at that. But read the next paragraph carefully.

Thermal factors regulate the sweat response, outside the disease factor that can cause excessive sweating. Emotional crying is less autonomous, and unless you're a toddler, you're perfectly capable of internally controlling your crying, but not your sweating rate.



Necrofantasia said:


> Of course women are ignorant of the bodies they've managed their whole lives and never asked or read a thing about them.


Well, sorry to burst your bubble, let's start with the easiest topic, vitamin deficiencies among americans (OP's in the UK thought so statistics don't apply):



> According the CDC and the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA):
> 
> 9 out of 10 Americans are deficient in potassium
> 7 out of 10 are deficient in calcium
> ...


I don;t know how accurate that info is, but it's not that far from the truth either.

Otherwise, yes, a big majority outside the medical/biology fields tends to be rather ignorant about basic knowledge like nutrition, hormones, or the difference between viruses and bacteria. Myself included towards certain subjects, and yourself included too, judging by the lack of medical terms and plethora of social justice ones that are meant to be imposing but are so empty they don't mean anything 🤭: "hair trigger", "mensplaining", "dogmatic".

Imagine yourself, reading 12 questions:


> What you notice in your wife, have you questioned the medical reasons for it?
> 1st thing both of you should have, but especially your wife: a comprehensive blood test of vitamins and minerals in the body to indicate a potential reason for lack of energy.
> 2, other good practice health checks (energy levels = stomach, liver, thyroid functions)
> 3, is she approaching menopause?
> ...


And getting triggered _just_ about the word "menopause", without being aware that it's among the first questions asked by competent doctors, clinicians, mental health therapists, etc. "_How are you managing the symptoms? Would you say they affect your daily life?_"



> Oh God, please don't pull the menopause card.





Necrofantasia said:


> Does your rationale also apply to periods?





Necrofantasia said:


> Wow you're the gift that keeps on giving with these hair trigger assumptions. Of course women are ignorant of the bodies they've managed their whole lives and never asked or read a thing about them. Good thing you know better than all of them for you have Google.


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## Necrofantasia (Feb 26, 2014)

Aarya said:


> I'm actually enjoying this haha.
> 
> I already know you didn't do biology in school, so let's leave it at that. But read the next paragraph carefully.
> 
> Thermal factors regulate the sweat response, outside the disease factor that can cause excessive sweating. Emotional crying is less autonomous, and unless you're a toddler, you're perfectly capable of internally controlling your crying, but not your sweating rate.


Egh, dude you're missing the point, being able to do something doesn't make it a constructive healthy or positive thing to do.



> Well, sorry to burst your bubble, let's start with the easiest topic, vitamin deficiencies among americans (OP's in the UK thought so statistics don't apply):
> 
> 
> I don;t know how accurate that info is, but it's not that far from the truth either.
> ...


You're at this point more self-fellating than conversing, sir.

A woman, given adequate healthcare access (UK) likely has been working with their GP, gyno and relevant specialists for years. A rando who just skimmed google won't really tell them anything new. There's also the fact menopause doesn't affect all individuals the same way.

Why am I even trying to reason with someone who thinks one should train themselves out of crying? Jesus.


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## Dalien (Jul 21, 2010)

I think this thread has gone off the rails.
Please stop with indirect or direct insults.
Thank you very much.
Now back to the subject on hand,..


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## Dalien (Jul 21, 2010)

Jamieboy said:


> Thank you all for the supportive comments, I feel very sad at the moment, but hopefully time and patience (not a strength) will lead me to a better place emotionally.
> 
> I recognise the symptoms of depression in me, but im committed to doing the little things that slowly bring about positive change.
> 
> ...


I hope as time goes on things will feel better. My oldest daughter said something to me yesterday and I think it’s pertinent here.

”Don’t trip over what is behind you.”


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## tarmonk (Nov 21, 2017)

ai.tran.75 said:


> My husband is also a Ti dom . And I was extremely close with my intp grandmother .
> I can kinda understand your struggle - based on personal experiences, Ti dom are horrid with comforting my emotions- ironically, I’m wonderful at comforting theirs( I’m referring to the one that I know personally) , so in a way it may feel - kinda unfair or unbalanced . However -
> I don’t need my life partner to support my emotions. I have other outlets for that . I do need one that supports my passion, share the same values as I do ( and fortunately for me I’ve found my person)
> With fi - I believe most enfp tend to share our stories to relieve stress or speak out our thoughts rather than ask for advice , many times my husband would try to solve a problem (Ti) rather than listen - which could be very frustrating. I most definitely put more effort into keeping our relationship pleasant and he knows that I push more effort into it ( the whole family does , my mother in law prefer me over my husband ) . I have a feeling that your wife also feel that you put more effort into your relationship than she did for the past 17 years . Many of the other people who comment , don’t realize that the reason you said you tried so hard is due to you knowing for a fact that your wife felt the same way. You did put in more effort - to the point that you live for that person - all the way until something tragic happen only to realize that missing support . Your wife also put in a lot of effort and she loves you so much - hence it’s hard for you to let go .
> ...


You have very good examples above, that good relationship is about balance and some compromises, also about good communication!

Not everything needs to be exactly ideal all the time and it's normal. What matters is good match in key importance areas.

I liked the part where you explained that your husband's main strength isn't exactly about providing emotional comfort, yet it doesn't make you think he's not caring - he's just different and you accept him like that, instead of forcing him to be someone else only bc your own craving for that emotional side is stronger. You seem to value him for his strengths he has instead of making problem out of some aspects which aren't his strengths.

"I need her to be cheerleader and I'm burned out" - found this saying from OP somewhere above. I don't want to sound harsh but it sounds the opposite of the acceptance about who partner is.

No, I'm not any saint and I've done similar mistakes in past, wanting my partner to adjust according to my cravings at some points.

But then found more productive and constructive ways for that - I'd suggest OP to change the situation into something where partner starts to want to do those things by herself (in simple words, wants to be that cheerleader). Create situations where circumstances do support that those aspects you crave for, can happen easier. I know it's easier to say than to do but I also know it is doable  Change situation into something more suitable, instead of changing partner. If I can do it, you can do it!

Best thing about this is that you don't need to wait for any approval from your partner to start to lead things towards better by yourself. Partner will usually follow at some point and starts to contribute on their own unless they don't care at all - but in the latter case it's over anyway


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## Jamieboy (6 mo ago)

tarmonk said:


> You have very good examples above, that good relationship is about balance and some compromises, also about good communication!
> 
> Not everything needs to be exactly ideal all the time and it's normal. What matters is good match in key importance areas.
> 
> ...


Thank you for taking the time to reply, I have thought about that particular response a lot, I have some observations about how my situation might relate to it and also differ, I would appreciate a sanity check on my thinking.

So I think my situation is similar in which my life partner can't comfort my emotions. Its not that she doesn't care, I know that, she is just different to me. 

I look back on my recent history and when I needed emotional comfort I accepted it from someone other than my wife. As a male in western society, seeking emotional comfort from other males is not the done thing, people can say its ok and all, but the reality is, it really isn't. So, when a woman other than my wife offered it after a bereavement, I accepted it, her motives where her own, but I needed that. I know it was wrong and I feel remorse for my actions. 

So here I am now, I have suffered another bereavement, of the one other person in my life who knew me completely. I want to say that bereavement by suicide is like no other. The emotions involved go right across the spectrum. I need my emotions comforting, but I have no one to turn to who can do that for me in a way that makes sense to me. 

I have no females in my life to turn to other than my wife, and if I did turn to the ones who im friends with, it risks the chance of me bonding with them in an inappropriate way. 

I believe there is a fundamental difference in our situations based on gender and how I believe, women can seek that emotional comfort through close friends in a way men can't.

I welcome your feedback, and please challenge any faulty assumptions I have made by presenting a different perspective.


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## tarmonk (Nov 21, 2017)

Jamieboy said:


> Thank you for taking the time to reply, I have thought about that particular response a lot, I have some observations about how my situation might relate to it and also differ, I would appreciate a sanity check on my thinking.
> 
> So I think my situation is similar in which my life partner can't comfort my emotions. Its not that she doesn't care, I know that, she is just different to me.
> 
> ...


Thanks for explaining! I think I get now much better where you're coming from - will process a while and see what I could suggest and think about.

PS haven't had chance to dig into whole thread - what's your partner's type, if you've figured that out?


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## Vexus (Mar 23, 2020)

Jamieboy said:


> it risks the chance of me bonding with them in an inappropriate way.


The moment you separate or divorce, it's no longer inappropriate, so... all that's really bothering you is social pressure. I think you and your wife know everything about each other! That's awesome! But now... there's nothing left to learn. Nothing more interesting to find out. You're kind of... done. Whatever you're doing isn't really sparking her, and whatever she's doing isn't sparking you. It's ok. Talk to her and establish that you're going to seek those bonds elsewhere. You guys have reached "max level" and you need a content expansion. lol...



Jamieboy said:


> women can seek that emotional comfort through close friends in a way men can't.


I just want to say... she's probably getting that emotional comfort through a man. I'm just preparing you because you may think she's not, but she probably is, just like you were. It can be small but it's probably there. Her mind is not somehow different, she's just looking for something new and interesting just like you are. Women are by far much better at hiding these things than men.


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## tarmonk (Nov 21, 2017)

Jamieboy said:


> I welcome your feedback, and please challenge any faulty assumptions I have made by presenting a different perspective.


I don't think you've made faulty assumptions within your response - all does make sense. Following are my thoughts. I try to not go overly into problem solving mode as I understand you're not after it right now - but probably I still will as it's just how my mind works  Hoping you can read at least something out of it which may give you some thoughts.



> So I think my situation is similar in which my life partner can't comfort my emotions. Its not that she doesn't care, I know that, she is just different to me.


Could you describe a situation where someone has been successful in comforting your emotions? I know it's a bit weird question but it could explain what you're after, to someone like me whose vocabulary probably even doesn't contain such words  Besides, talking it out may paint some clearer picture for yourself as well - finding solution to whatever struggle comes easier if the mystery behind some more vague and less concrete concepts is gone. Also you might then see more options. In real life, still concrete steps and actions have to be taken to get over the struggles - whether we like it or not  There's no such concrete concept as "comforting" that could be actually implemented in one step.

EDIT: another reason why I'm asking you to describe it, is that it might be expectation about something subjective to yourself, about which others, including your partner, could have no idea what it needs to be. 



> I look back on my recent history and when I needed emotional comfort I accepted it from someone other than my wife. As a male in western society, seeking emotional comfort from other males is not the done thing, people can say its ok and all, but the reality is, it really isn't. So, when a woman other than my wife offered it after a bereavement, I accepted it, her motives where her own, but I needed that. I know it was wrong and I feel remorse for my actions.
> 
> I have no females in my life to turn to other than my wife, and if I did turn to the ones who im friends with, it risks the chance of me bonding with them in an inappropriate way.
> 
> I believe there is a fundamental difference in our situations based on gender and how I believe, women can seek that emotional comfort through close friends in a way men can't.


Yes, unfortunately whether liked or not, we men have to correspond to certain standards and expectations of society, especially when it involves something "weak" like feelings. Changing this attitude of society right now is unfortunately out of our reach, so at least one thing is clear - no point to hope that solution comes from there.

So what could be actually done then? Do you have sisters or other female family members who are close to you enough so you could speak to them / they could provide you some comfort about topics you couldn't discuss with others (for example, your friends - yet are they really friends if they discard some topics with you. It's a different question though)? I'm sure they wouldn't see it as anything weird but it would work only if you feel comfortable discussing such topics with them. Talking to a psychologist wouldn't be bad idea either, if no other good options are available for free. Besides they can see some aspects from neutral viewpoint where friends have at least some bias.

Btw is your partner some T type?


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## Jamieboy (6 mo ago)

tarmonk said:


> I don't think you've made faulty assumptions within your response - all does make sense. Following are my thoughts. I try to not go overly into problem solving mode as I understand you're not after it right now - but probably I still will as it's just how my mind works  Hoping you can read at least something out of it which may give you some thoughts.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you again, I believe my wife is an intp, so yes a t type. I do have some close friends, but none I would want to address this with. Not because I fear their judgement, but because I think it would make them uncomfortable, they have loyalty to my wife also and I don't want to put them in that position.

I know how this sounds to a lot of folk, but its something that comes naturally to me. I feel comforted when someone sees that im struggling and offers there support. 

I do this myself naturally, I just pick up on someone's mood or demeanour and respond accordingly, asking if they're OK, offering support in an appropriate manner to our relationship. 

It feels authentic and freely given to me. As soon as I have to ask, I feel like I have placed a burden on that person, because they wouldn't have done it otherwise. 

I know a lot of people will see this as odd, but its how I am. I can't help how it makes me feel.

Just so you don't have to trawl the thread for info, I do see a therapist, and my only sister took her life 4 months ago.


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## tarmonk (Nov 21, 2017)

Jamieboy said:


> Thank you again, I believe my wife is an intp, so yes a t type. I do have some close friends, but none I would want to address this with. Not because I fear their judgement, but because I think it would make them uncomfortable, they have loyalty to my wife also and I don't want to put them in that position.


Yes, this kind of is T related trait. Depends on particular person and their people/social skills of course, not only on type. There are mechanisms how Ts can very well manage people relationships with others, without actually "feeling" them but knowing that won't help you directly as it's something your wife needs to learn.

Agreed, considering the situation with mutual friends who know your wife too, not a good idea to discuss things between you two with them - could also make situation uncomfortable for your wife and that'd be unfair. 



> I know how this sounds to a lot of folk, but its something that comes naturally to me. I feel comforted when someone sees that im struggling and offers there support.
> 
> I do this myself naturally, I just pick up on someone's mood or demeanour and respond accordingly, asking if they're OK, offering support in an appropriate manner to our relationship.
> 
> It feels authentic and freely given to me. As soon as I have to ask, I feel like I have placed a burden on that person, because they wouldn't have done it otherwise.


While I guess the ways how I'd approach to this comforting-thing when I need to provide it for someone, are different from what you might expect, the above doesn't actually sound rocket science at all to me and does make perfectly sense.

The fact is, you seem to await F-style approach, which you can't get out of box, considering your partner might be INTP. As faced with reality, lets admit it's something you can't just change by fingerclick, right? And neither could she. And neither is it required.

Good news is that it's most likely not something new / frightening change in your partner's behaviour. You've seen it long enough over years to know it just works this way / differently in her mind. Besides, she was your choice! I can confirm that if she's T dom, it's not intentional behaviour or evil either - T dom mind just doesn't work in such ways like yours does, I know it from myself too well  I'm not surprised if it appears that she doesn't even have any idea about that you have such concern!

This is a pretty common misunderstanding in relationships and I've heard similar stuff from my friends who are in long term relationships. Said that going to therapist together may result in some surprising realizations. For example, one friend (most likely NTJ) told he had no idea his wife wants to hear more affirmation (doesn't come for him too naturally), while his wife had no idea about his secret wishes - it all came out and things got clear. Both needed to make some compromises and put in some effort into aspects that didn't come that naturally.

NB!! It's important to avoid the pitfall of thinking that if something doesn't come naturally and you have to conciously make some effort, it's bad / wrong - nono, it's not  Talking about your needs with each other and then agreeing who's gonna do what is the only way to make things actually happen! Some things don't just happen on their own and hope is not a valid strategy. Been through something similar by myself as well and it worked!



> Just so you don't have to trawl the thread for info, I do see a therapist, and my only sister took her life 4 months ago.


Oh, that's sad and definitely doesn't make your situation any easier. Hopefully you feel better at some point!


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## islandlight (Aug 13, 2013)

Have you considered a grief group? Women might indeed be better to talk to in such situations. In fact, I once heard a man say so in a grief group.

If you join a group, you could seek support from individuals who are not attractive or available to you, e.g., older women. Or join an online group, where you are unlikely to ever meet the participants in person.

As an INTP, I can be very supportive to people who have problems. But not in a huggy or asking-what's-wrong kind of way. 

Sometimes we (you) need to look further afield to get our needs met. This need not involve infidelity or obvious solutions. I'm in a (quite different) situation where my life was not satisfying. I've had to be creative in finding things to do and like.


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## Jamieboy (6 mo ago)

islandlight said:


> Have you considered a grief group? Women might indeed be better to talk to in such situations. In fact, I once heard a man say so in a grief group.
> 
> If you join a group, you could seek support from individuals who are not attractive or available to you, e.g., older women. Or join an online group, where you are unlikely to ever meet the participants in person.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your reply, a local grief group isn't available unfortunately. There are a lot of complications in my situation. 

I find how you describe being supportive resonates, my wife is supportive in her own way. It's why I feel so much guilt at my turbulent emotions. She really took care of business in the first fee weeks. I was a comatose mess, she did everything. 

I also wonder if some of the advice received is because of my age, I think were I advising someone in their 20s or 30s my advice to them would be, don't feel bad you can both be good people, but not good together. I'm just thinking out loud at this point


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