# Can any function be bossy?



## Acadia (Mar 20, 2014)

One of my friends is getting into mbti and cognitive functions, and she tested out as an ENTP. 

It makes sense in many ways; she loves doing puzzles; she does the Ne-thing where she talks, and then what she's talking about gives her ideas about other things to talk about, and she never stops talking--she has evidence of Si in that she's always comparing things in a serious way. 

But damn, is she bossy. {just a heads up, I say this to her face all the time. it's cool, she says things about me too. and she's asked me frequently to help her figure out her type.}

And normally I associate bossiness with external thinking. She compares herself frequently to Hermione Granger etc. But she's more rapidfire, scattered, and quirky than Hermione and honestly I could see her lacking Fi.

Ultimately my question is, can tert Fe and inferior Si be bossy? She was just in a play at my friends' college, and she tried to take over the entire thing; she tried to tell people what to do, and told them that _their_ school wasn't doing things right, whereas the college she graduated from was right all the time; she also implied frequently that she was better and more skilled than the others because she went to a four-year-school. {traditional line of thinking Si?}


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## PaladinX (Feb 20, 2013)

There is no "bossiness" function. My ENFJ girlfriend can be pretty bossy. I can be pretty bossy. In the DiSC personality system it's most likely to be a high D(ominant) type. My girlfriend and I are both high Ds.


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## Peter (Feb 27, 2010)

heartofpompeii said:


> One of my friends is getting into mbti and cognitive functions, and she tested out as an ENTP.
> 
> It makes sense in many ways; she loves doing puzzles; she does the Ne-thing where she talks, and then what she's talking about gives her ideas about other things to talk about, and she never stops talking--she has evidence of Si in that she's always comparing things in a serious way.
> 
> ...


Maybe she's not an F.


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## Acadia (Mar 20, 2014)

Peter said:


> Maybe she's not an F.


I never said she was  Ne-Ti, but I just didn't associate either of those functions with wanting to order and/or control things. Either way she'd have Fi or Fe in her function stack.


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## Acadia (Mar 20, 2014)

PaladinX said:


> There is no "bossiness" function. My ENFJ girlfriend can be pretty bossy. I can be pretty bossy. In the DiSC personality system it's most likely to be a high D(ominant) type. My girlfriend and I are both high Ds.


that sounds like her. is there a free version of that test to take?


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## PaladinX (Feb 20, 2013)

heartofpompeii said:


> that sounds like her. is there a free version of that test to take?


You can find more information in this sticky post from the Psychology sub-forum:

http://personalitycafe.com/general-psychology/2639-disc-personality-profiles.html

I think it includes a link to a free test.

EDIT: I seem to recall from somewhere that ENTPs tend to score as high D and I.


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## Peter (Feb 27, 2010)

heartofpompeii said:


> I never said she was  Ne-Ti, but I just didn't associate either of those functions with wanting to order and/or control things. Either way she'd have Fi or Fe in her function stack.


ENTJ perhaps?


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## Acadia (Mar 20, 2014)

Peter said:


> ENTJ perhaps?


No, she doesn't use Ni, or Se. I'd say ESTJ before ENTJ.


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## Peter (Feb 27, 2010)

heartofpompeii said:


> No, she doesn't use Ni, or Se. I'd say ESTJ before ENTJ.


Yes that's a good option too. Probably even better based on what you described. ESTJ that doesn't know when to shut up.


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## Deus Absconditus (Feb 27, 2011)

I think that the attribute of being bossy is derived from using an external function to express an introverted function. Introverted functions are na thrall introverted, therefore they have a negative relationship with the external. This negative relationship makes it difficult for the introverted function to be expressed through external means, crating a slight form of conflict. Since its rather difficult to express introverted properties in an external form, it discourages the introverted function from atempting to do so since it naturally drains. This leads to the extraverted function having to express the introverted properties but since the extraverted function doesn't fully understand the nature of introverted properties, it lacks the ability to extravert it in the form it is most adapted too. Mixing the conflict of the process with the inability to fully express introverted properties through extraverting creates an effect of demand. The extraverted function inevitably has to force the internal properties out, leading it to be expressed negatively. Since it can't fully understand it or express it, it decides to demand it.

This is just a theory of mine, I'm not going to try and parade it as fact but I do think it is worthy of being explored further to see if it is valid or not. 

If you want to tie it down to individual functions I would say Je probably comes off as the most bossy, in contrast to how Pe probably comes off as the most manipulating. 

The real problem with all of this, is that bossy and manipulating are introverted judgements, so different types can view differing types as bossy or manipulating based on their relationship with the other types functions. In general though, extraversion seems to be the one that is judged as bossy and/or manipulating more so than introversion, since both bossy and manipulating can only be viewed as an expression from the object (extraverting) through the eyes of the subject (projecting).


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## Acadia (Mar 20, 2014)

Shadow Logic said:


> I think that the attribute of being bossy is derived from using an external function to express an introverted function. Introverted functions are na thrall introverted, therefore they have a negative relationship with the external. This negative relationship makes it difficult for the introverted function to be expressed through external means, crating a slight form of conflict. Since its rather difficult to express introverted properties in an external form, it discourages the introverted function from atempting to do so since it naturally drains. This leads to the extraverted function having to express the introverted properties but since the extraverted function doesn't fully understand the nature of introverted properties, it lacks the ability to extravert it in the form it is most adapted too. Mixing the conflict of the process with the inability to fully express introverted properties through extraverting creates an effect of demand. The extraverted function inevitably has to force the internal properties out, leading it to be expressed negatively. Since it can't fully understand it or express it, it decides to demand it.
> 
> This is just a theory of mine, I'm not going to try and parade it as fact but I do think it is worthy of being explored further to see if it is valid or not.
> 
> ...


awesome.
that makes a lot of sense, and you are right. I think I meant bossy in that she takes charge and tells people what to do. but as it is an introverted judging function, she may not think she's bossy at all. I certainly don't think I'm incredibly bossy, but I can have my moments when pushed. I guess everyone can. When I see a problem, I try to fix it, for better or for worse. She probably does the same thing, but maybe she sees more problems than I do.


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## boogiestomp (Jan 7, 2014)

heartofpompeii said:


> One of my friends is getting into mbti and cognitive functions, and she tested out as an ENTP.
> 
> It makes sense in many ways; she loves doing puzzles; she does the Ne-thing where she talks, and then what she's talking about gives her ideas about other things to talk about, and she never stops talking--she has evidence of Si in that she's always comparing things in a serious way.
> 
> ...


I worked at a shipping company for a while, and one of my "supervisors" was this customer service lady who I am fairly certain was a straight up ENTP. 
She was extremely bossy in making sure her brainstormed ideas (Ne) were implemented if they made sense in her own head (Ti.) 
My fellow sensor co-worker and I had a more blue-collar jobs in an assembly line, whereas she had a job in customer service, so it would annoy us to no end when she would come in and suggest her random epiphanies about we could improve our assembly line which was already working fine. She would come in at times and "suggest" ideas to improve our work level. She was also extremely politically oriented, and would often try to recruit me to her visionary cause, ending with me finally telling her I despise politics. This "bossy" attitude can manifest in ENTPs as they have an "Informative" interaction style and choose to get things going by offering free advice.
This isn't a stab at ENTPs, I just think that in some instances, like all other types really, their "Informative" interaction style can manifest in bossiness. All ENTPs are different, and I"m not trying to say that ENTPs are more likely to be bossier than any other type. This is just an experience with one ENTP.


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## Acadia (Mar 20, 2014)

boogiestomp said:


> I worked at a shipping company for a while, and one of my "supervisors" was this customer service lady who I am fairly certain was a straight up ENTP.
> She was extremely bossy in making sure her brainstormed ideas (Ne) were implemented if they made sense in her own head (Ti.)
> My fellow sensor co-worker and I had a more blue-collar jobs in an assembly line, whereas she had a job in customer service, so it would annoy us to no end when she would come in and suggest her random epiphanies about we could improve our assembly line which was already working fine. She would come in at times and "suggest" ideas to improve our work level. She was also extremely politically oriented, and would often try to recruit me to her visionary cause, ending with me finally telling her I despise politics. This "bossy" attitude can manifest in ENTPs as they have an "Informative" interaction style and choose to get things going by offering free advice.
> This isn't a stab at ENTPs, I just think that in some instances, like all other types really, their "Informative" interaction style can manifest in bossiness. All ENTPs are different, and I"m not trying to say that ENTPs are more likely to be bossier than any other type. This is just an experience with one ENTP.


I guess that makes sense. I don't quite understand Ne; that infatuation with ideas and the expression of such could totally be Ne-Ti. 

I'd say I'm a bit more politically heated then my friend is {Fi-Ni} but when I try to lay out something objectively to her {Se-Te}--take pot, right? no one's ever died strictly from marijuana use. There are facts. There are studies. I can pull these up for her. But she doesn't care; to her, weed is dangerous and should not be legalized and she'll never approve of it, even though it's statistically safer than cigarettes and liquor. I think she may have more of an Fe political streak in her.


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## RunForCover07 (Apr 9, 2013)

I have a bossy ENTP friend also, but I kind of just look at her like, "Bitch, I don't know who you're trying to boss around." We get along for the most part, though. Te is stereotypically known to be bossy, but I think it really depends on the person and their ego.


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## Bash (Nov 19, 2014)

No.


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## Bash (Nov 19, 2014)

Double


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## Deus Absconditus (Feb 27, 2011)

heartofpompeii said:


> I guess that makes sense. I don't quite understand Ne; that infatuation with ideas and the expression of such could totally be Ne-Ti.
> 
> I'd say I'm a bit more politically heated then my friend is {Fi-Ni} but when I try to lay out something objectively to her {Se-Te}--take pot, right? no one's ever died strictly from marijuana use. There are facts. There are studies. I can pull these up for her. But she doesn't care; to her, weed is dangerous and should not be legalized and she'll never approve of it, even though it's statistically safer than cigarettes and liquor. I think she may have more of an Fe political streak in her.


Honestly, you should reconsider her type, because this post alone is the antithesis to the ENTP. Ne, along with Se, are solely objective and completely empirical. An objective fact is seen as an objective fact from both Se and Ne. Secondly, I agree with you that this is definitely Fe in action, but not Fe tertiary. Adopting the values of the group comes into conflict with the need to internalize objective facts. Fe in an ENTP never overrides their Ti, and instead are opposed to each other. In any situation where an objective fact is present, the ENTP will always choose objective fact over values. Not only that but Ne is the function that sees all of the objective possibilities in the object that it has to offer, consequentially perceiving an objects potential. An ENTP would see the objective possibilities that marijuana can offer by being legalized, such as the positive effect on the economy through the hemp industry, or the medicinal effects it's CBD's offer, and so on.

The point is that Ne-Ti is concerned solely with the objective possibilities and the facts that pertain them, this is how they make decisions. Ne can not see anything from just one perspective, it needs to look at a thing from all perspectives in order to chase all of its implications. Stating that something is dangerous, which is already proven to have medicinal properties that benefit others, and should be illegal because of it is the complete opposite of what Ne will do because it's focused on all of the objective possibilities, which includes the positive possibilities that marijuana (medicinal etc) has to offer. Here's some quotes to better understand:

On Ne:



> Because intuition is orientated by the object, a decided dependence upon external situations is discernible, but it has an altogether different character from the dependence of the sensational type. The intuitive is never to be found among the generally recognized reality values, but he is always present where possibilities exist.





> The morality of the intuitive is governed neither by intellect nor by feeling; he has his own characteristic morality, which consists in a loyalty to his intuitive view of things and a voluntary submission to its authority, Consideration for the welfare of his neighbours is weak. No solid argument hinges upon their well-being any more than upon his own. Neither can we detect in him any great respect for his neighbour's convictions and customs; in fact, he is not infrequently put down as an immoral and ruthless adventurer. Since his intuition is largely concerned with outer objects, scenting out external possibilities, he readily applies himself to callings wherein he may expand his abilities in many directions.





> In common with the sensation-type, he claims a similar freedom and exemption from all restraint, since he suffers no submission of his decisions to rational judgment, relying entirely upon the perception of chance, possibilities. He rids himself of the restrictions of reason.





> A fact is acknowledged only in so far as it opens up fresh possibilities of advancing beyond it and of releasing the individual from its operation. Emerging possibilities are compelling motives from which intuition cannot escape and to which all else must be sacrificed.





> Just as extraverted sensation strives to reach the highest pitch of actuality, because only thus can the appearance of a complete life be created, so intuition tries to encompass the greatest possibilities, since only through the awareness of possibilities is intuition fullysatisfied. Intuition seeks to discover possibilities in the objective situation; hence as a mere tributary function (viz. when not in the position of priority) it is also the instrument which, in the presence of a hopelessly blocked situation, works automatically towards the issue, which no other function could discover. Where intuition has the priority, every ordinary situation in life seems like a closed room, which intuition has to open. It is constantly seeking outlets and fresh possibilities in external life.




On Ne and Se:



> They are merely in a high degree empirical; they are grounded exclusively upon experience, so exclusively, in fact, that as a rule, their judgment cannot keep pace with their experience


Basically the whole nature of Ne is to abide solely by objective possibilities, never limiting itself for judgement in any situation, never adopting values that will ever limit the objective possibilities, and never choosing values over the objective potential of the object.


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## Acadia (Mar 20, 2014)

Shadow Logic said:


> Honestly, you should reconsider her type, because this post alone is the antithesis to the ENTP. Ne, along with Se, are solely objective and completely empirical. An objective fact is seen as an objective fact from both Se and Ne. Secondly, I agree with you that this is definitely Fe in action, but not Fe tertiary. Adopting the values of the group comes into conflict with the need to internalize objective facts. Fe in an ENTP never overrides their Ti, and instead are opposed to each other. In any situation where an objective fact is present, the ENTP will always choose objective fact over values. Not only that but Ne is the function that sees all of the objective possibilities in the object that it has to offer, consequentially perceiving an objects potential. An ENTP would see the objective possibilities that marijuana can offer by being legalized, such as the positive effect on the economy through the hemp industry, or the medicinal effects it's CBD's offer, and so on.
> 
> The point is that Ne-Ti is concerned solely with the objective possibilities and the facts that pertain them, this is how they make decisions. Ne can not see anything from just one perspective, it needs to look at a thing from all perspectives in order to chase all of its implications. Stating that something is dangerous, which is already proven to have medicinal properties that benefit others, and should be illegal because of it is the complete opposite of what Ne will do because it's focused on all of the objective possibilities, which includes the positive possibilities that marijuana (medicinal etc) has to offer. Here's some quotes to better understand:
> 
> ...


whoa. that's super interesting. Ne sounds cool. 
I would still guess she has it somewhere in her stack, with the way she jumps from idea to idea so casually as to suggest milking cows and partying belong in the same category of conversation. 

I wonder if she's got high-Si, then. A lot of her arguments come from things she saw and things she experienced growing up. {i.e. her dad worked in a rehab facility, thus making drugs bad.} 

whenever she "casts" things she normally puts herself as the "leader" of the group. {we were theatre kids. I'm the Gavroche to her Enjolras etc} when in actuality it's up to one of our other friends and myself to actually do a lot of the organizing {which I loathe man} 

she has a tendency to take over projects; she calls herself the mom of the group {when in fact the mom of the group is actually my other friend. but ya know, I just call it as I see it.} 

ESxJ I think. But I don't think she'd ever admit that, haha. 
Which I guess I understand. I didn't like admitting I use Fi, because I want all of the actions I take to seem logical. Why shouldn't she want the actions she takes to seem Jack Sparrow-ish?


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## Deus Absconditus (Feb 27, 2011)

heartofpompeii said:


> whoa. that's super interesting. Ne sounds cool.
> I would still guess she has it somewhere in her stack, with the way she jumps from idea to idea so casually as to suggest milking cows and partying belong in the same category of conversation.
> 
> I wonder if she's got high-Si, then. A lot of her arguments come from things she saw and things she experienced growing up. {i.e. her dad worked in a rehab facility, thus making drugs bad.}
> ...


Ne is a pretty amazing function if it's properly understood for what it truly is. I've noticed that many people who learn about cognitive functions base their knowledge of Ne on how Ne-aux presents it rather than how Ne-doms present it. Some pepole are blinded by their biases and see Ne as a function that just likes to discuss about ideas, or likes to connect unrelated events/things, or just likes to talk about impractical possibilities. All of that blinds that individual to what Ne truly is, which is a function that perceives the potential of all objects by way of viewing all the objective possibilities the object has to offer. People tend to forget that Ne is an empirical function that processes objective possibilities, possibilities that cold happen in the present objective setting. In order to perceive all the objective possibilities, along with potential, of an object Ne must be able to perceive the relations and conditions, which consequentially presents the ability to connect all things to all things. To an Ne dom there is no unrelated object, everything is related to everything, therefore the ability to perceive these relations are directly tied in to the tool that perceives the connection between everything is focused solely. Ne is a complex multifaceted function that is principled on the potential of external things based on their relations and conditions.

Sorry for the rant, but yea I agree that ESxJ (leaning more towards ESFJ) is the most probable answer to what her type could be, based on everything that you have stated.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

@heartofpompeii

Are you certain you are not misconstruing _frustration_ for bossiness? ENTPs are reluctant leaders most of the time. We are content to get ideas started and let others carry them to their logical conclusion. We tend to wander off too easily to stick with any one thing. 

ENTPs are prone to frustration, if we feel like others are not correctly interpreting our "grand vision" of the moment. It can easily happen when we're not taking into account that other people don't appreciate the spontaneity of our thinking, such as, those who rely more on step-by-step methods, rather than making large "leaps" of logic. Our methods of communication can be especially frustrating to SJs, who rely more on connecting all the little details, than we tend to do. 

Also, when we come up with what we consider an "amazing new idea," we sort of expect others to see it as being wonderful, and support it with equal enthusiasm. If the response we get from others is something less than enthusiastic, we can get very disconcerted with them. It might make us pouty, or it might even make us grouchy.


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## Acadia (Mar 20, 2014)

tanstaafl28 said:


> Are you certain you are not misconstruing _frustration_ for bossiness? ENTPs are reluctant leaders most of the time. We are content to get ideas started and let others carry them to their logical conclusion. We tend to wander off too easily to stick with any one thing.
> 
> ENTPs are prone to frustration, if we feel like others are not correctly interpreting our "grand vision" of the moment. It can easily happen when we're not taking into account that other people don't appreciate the spontaneity of our thinking, such as, those who rely more on step-by-step methods, rather than making large "leaps" of logic. Our methods of communication can be especially frustrating to SJs, who rely more on connecting all the little details, than we tend to do.
> 
> Also, when we come up with what we consider an "amazing new idea," we sort of expect others to see it as being wonderful, and support it with equal enthusiasm. If the response we get from others is something less than enthusiastic, we can get very disconcerted with them. It might make us pouty, or it might even make us grouchy.


mmm here's the thing. girl loves leading the charge. the latter part of what you said sounds accurate; but this girl and I have had full on fist fights. she can really commandeers things--which is something she also acknowledges and is working on; she was asked not to return for auditions this year, as she alienated a majority of the cast and even some of the professors. {which is why I'm helping her figure some of this out, aha} 

she also gets frightened of pursuing her goals and locks herself into one place. 

I also want to add that this friend of mine is also an extraordinary person. she never had to try in school which frustrated me in our middle school and teenage years, and to a certain degree it was frustrating being friends with someone who received all of the spotlight all of the time. she's controlling of the music that's playing, puts on false pretenses with new groups of people, talks down at others without realizing it. Our group of friends consists of myself {an ISFP}, an ENTJ who is "mom", her INFJ girlfriend, an ISTJ, two ISTPs and a certain ENTP. So there's not too many SJs in the mix; as far as her theatre department goes, there's a ton of Ne. 

If I'm being honest, your description describes our one friend; pouty face & everything. But not her. The more I think about it, the more I suspect ESTJ with well-developed Ne, or ESFJ with very sour Fe. 

we get along rather well despite our differences. I'm one of the only friends that's not afraid to tell her to shut up. As kids especially she would _literally_ push me around; she'd throw my hats into trees I'd have to scurry up to retrieve; pushed me down the stairs, wrestle me to the ground if I said something she disagreed with. I'm better than fencing at her {high Se; it's the one thing I'm better than her at} but she walks around telling people she learned to fight broadsword as a kid {when...no she didn't. I was there. no broad swords, only pretend.} 

@Shadow Logic
I love the idea of everything being connected to everything. I really respect Ne a lot; I'm the only high Se-user in my closest group of friends and man am I literal compared to them. But occasionally my Ni pokes through and everyone's surprised, haha. But while I see meaning, I can't make connections like my friends that have Ne anywhere in the stack do. I admire that level of perception quite a bit, come to think of it. I love listening to my ENTP friend talk. He can make a million connections in one breath; which is something my other friend can do too--but she forces it. The confirmed ENTP is something else.


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## Miss Emily (Dec 12, 2014)

heartofpompeii said:


> Ultimately my question is, can tert Fe and inferior Si be bossy?


Bossiness is not limited - it can be found in each type or function.

Some types / functions may have more / less bossy people than others, but there is always at least one person who is.


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