# Socionics declaring - outward vs inward - insight



## Freeflowingthoughts (Jun 23, 2015)

I just had this theory, and I think it sounds right, those who are 'declarative' in socionics. (NFP, NTJ, STP, SFJ) are people who're internally questioning, and outwardly declaring. One possibility is a compensation for internal insurity, by summing up things up in the outer world. Contrarily, questioning types (NFJ, STJ, SFP, NTP) are those who are _internally declarative_, and _outwardly questioning_. So, personally, I've experienced recieving information, processing the shit out of it, making my own mind, and then asking a question based off of this personal declaration I made inside. My questions often have a slant. I caught myself the other day talking to my ISTP dad, I knew the answer, but asked a question. Freaked me out. Why don't I just say it? #socionicsapplied


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## Freeflowingthoughts (Jun 23, 2015)

My questions are rarely ever genuine questions, but I usually present two options in my question and try to highlight one that I internall declare is right. It still nevertheless comes off as a question


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## Jeremy8419 (Mar 2, 2015)

Freeflowingthoughts said:


> I just had this theory, and I think it sounds right, those who are 'declarative' in socionics. (NFP, NTJ, STP, SFJ) are people who're internally questioning, and outwardly declaring. One possibility is a compensation for internal insurity, by summing up things up in the outer world. Contrarily, questioning types (NFJ, STJ, SFP, NTP) are those who are _internally declarative_, and _outwardly questioning_. So, personally, I've experienced recieving information, processing the shit out of it, making my own mind, and then asking a question based off of this personal declaration I made inside. My questions often have a slant. I caught myself the other day talking to my ISTP dad, I knew the answer, but asked a question. Freaked me out. Why don't I just say it? #socionicsapplied


What you're describing about yourself is EII declaring, not IEI asking. Declaring speaks in long strings, whereas asking speaks in short interruptions. During conversations, asking types will drop in and drop out of speaking roles frequently, be it with short "mhmm's," "ah okays," etc. or full sentences. In group settings, they will all interrupt each other, seemingly as if it is perfectly natural. Declaring types will typically wait for a confirmation of attention, then speak a paragraph or more. If interrupted, they will return to formulating their next paragraph. If they are a strong Se type, the "opening" can be much less than a weak Se type such as EII. The posing a statement as a question is due to EII PoLR Se, which when giving unarguable information will often turn it into a question, to allow the other person final direct control by allowing them the final acceptance or rejection of the information.

If you treat Socionics vs MBTI as purely MBTI functions and socionics elements and them and the models they are in being identical, you can formulate whatever descriptions of behaviors due to such that you want; however, they won't be congruent with socionics. Everything you wrote and are thinking concerning communication is the same as descriptions for EII and INFJ. Asking/declaring descriptions are all declaring being INFJ. All the reinins, functions, elements, etc. have descriptions for EII being INFJ. Your post itself is stating that asking/declaring are actually reverse of what they are, which means you consider yourself declaring and can only make yourself be both IEI and Declaring by reversing declaring to be asking. You may want to take a step back and see how many more things you have internally and unconsciously reversed to make things fit.

As soon as you leave the realm of MBTI functions and Socionics elements in a vacuum, you're going to enter the realm of descriptions, and all descriptions for EII are near identical to INFJ.


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## Freeflowingthoughts (Jun 23, 2015)

Jeremy8419 said:


> What you're describing about yourself is EII declaring, not IEI asking. Declaring speaks in long strings, whereas asking speaks in short interruptions. During conversations, asking types will drop in and drop out of speaking roles frequently, be it with short "mhmm's," "ah okays," etc. or full sentences. In group settings, they will all interrupt each other, seemingly as if it is perfectly natural. Declaring types will typically wait for a confirmation of attention, then speak a paragraph or more. If interrupted, they will return to formulating their next paragraph. If they are a strong Se type, the "opening" can be much less than a weak Se type such as EII. The posing a statement as a question is due to EII PoLR Se, which when giving unarguable information will often turn it into a question, to allow the other person final direct control by allowing them the final acceptance or rejection of the information.
> 
> If you treat Socionics vs MBTI as purely MBTI functions and socionics elements and them and the models they are in being identical, you can formulate whatever descriptions of behaviors due to such that you want; however, they won't be congruent with socionics. Everything you wrote and are thinking concerning communication is the same as descriptions for EII and INFJ. Asking/declaring descriptions are all declaring being INFJ. All the reinins, functions, elements, etc. have descriptions for EII being INFJ. Your post itself is stating that asking/declaring are actually reverse of what they are, which means you consider yourself declaring and can only make yourself be both IEI and Declaring by reversing declaring to be asking. You may want to take a step back and see how many more things you have internally and unconsciously reversed to make things fit.
> 
> As soon as you leave the realm of MBTI functions and Socionics elements in a vacuum, you're going to enter the realm of descriptions, and all descriptions for EII are near identical to INFJ.




Let me explain then. I have noticed that when asking types 'ask' questions, after they've processed it, they usually have a slant to their question. They're trying to pull in one direction or another. Because they're internally sure before they ask. In this sense, asking types can be very persuasive.

I think this concept is most noticeable in ENFJ/ESFPs/ESTJ/ISTJ.

I do speak in short interruptions. Not long strings. That's why I said, I caught myself, and was shocked at how I wasn't able to state something that I was certain of internally. Something that came out in question form but was not a question at all. #socionicsapplied 

"The posing a statement as a question is due to EII PoLR Se, which when giving unarguable information will often turn it into a question, to allow the other person final direct control by allowing them the final acceptance or rejection of the information."

^ This is the only thing you wrote that adresses the point and is such a bizzarre statement indicitive of the mental gymnastics you do. 'Polr Se makes EIIs sentences asking when giving inarguable info a question?' Giving inarguable info is the _definition_ of a declaration and the _antithesis_ of a question. Learn socionics. 

I don't know why you're rehashing an old debate of MBTI vs Socionics. This is not about that. You're letting your personal vendetta tarnish a pure thread. This is socionics related material posted on a socionics forum. 

For everyone who wants to see Jeremys legacy on his time here in personality cafe, one only has to look at every single one of his threads. See the threads he's commented on, where he starts bullying people. See almost every single person calling him INFP or having an argument with him. If you simply see this individual comment or thread you might be inclined to sympathise with him. Don't. I'm not a mean person. The administrator's not a mean person. The other users here are not mean. It's not a giant conspiracy. We're simply defending ourselves against a passive agressive dude who wants to be INFJ. His statement "You may want to take a step back and see how many more things you have internally and unconsciously reversed to make things fit" is perfect in highlighting this. All his behavior falls perfectly into alignment with Jungs inferior Te description, and he self professed from his own mouth to being an INFP in this my thread here, http://personalitycafe.com/infj-forum-protectors/590098-truth-about-estps-istps-infjs-enfjs-5.html It is not mean to call someone a type they themselves have called themselves. I tried to extend the olive branch. I tried to be as nice as I possibly could. 

This is how I imagine you: 




Bye bye Jeremy.


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## Freeflowingthoughts (Jun 23, 2015)

If anybody else can comment based on the topic that would be really really fantastic


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