# NFs — which statement best describes you? Why?



## Llyralen (Sep 4, 2017)

1. Which statement do you identify most with? 

A. I am too compassionate. 
B. I feel too deeply. 


2. Please discuss (if you can) why you chose this statement. Be as short or as long as you like.


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## eeo (Aug 25, 2020)

I don't know how deeply others feel, so I don't think I could seriously claim that. I do feel deeply, and I also think about people I've ever connected with all the time, but I just don't express it as much as I could or should. So I don't think being too compassionate would fit me that well. If I'm forced to choose, it's most likely B because in my understanding being compassionate involves much more action and I simply lack that.


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## Llyralen (Sep 4, 2017)

eeo said:


> I don't know how deeply others feel, so I don't think I could seriously claim that. I do feel deeply, and I also think about people I've ever connected with all the time, but I just don't express it as much as I could or should. So I don't think being too compassionate would fit me that well. If I'm forced to choose, it's most likely B because in my understanding being compassionate involves much more action and I simply lack that.


A good start to this thread already, thank you. So I logged back in because I realized the statements weren’t proportionate. I changed it a bit (above). I could have changed it to: 
A. I am more compassionate than most people. 
B. I feel more deeply than most people. 

Then it would be equal... or I changed it to the above. If forced to choose, maybe the “more than most people” really foxes you to choose. I’m on the fence as to which is better for the discussion, but I at least realized they needed equalizing.


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## Ewok City (Sep 21, 2020)

Hmm.. Tough choice, but I think:


Llyralen said:


> A. I am more compassionate than most people.


Ever since I was a kid I've always been extremely bothered by people with no moral compass. I don't understand how they can sleep well at night, even after harming others. Which I think option B might be the answer here? Those with no moral compass simply couldn't empathise with their victims, because they don't feel anything. Those who feel more deeply than others will find it harder to harm others.

But I know that it's irrational to expect everyone in the world to not harm others, not to mention treat others well! That's why I always try my best to help those who I can, in hope that they will be inspired to do the same to others. Maybe, we'll start to see more people helping each other that way. I mean.. teamwork is dreamwork, isn't it?


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## vivi6 (May 20, 2021)

like eeo said, i have no way of understanding how the inner workings of somebody else's mind works. how could i definitely say that i "feel too deeply" without knowing the depths of somebody else's mind first?
i don't know if i'm too compassionate either. i mean, i always try to see other people's side of things with fail here and there, but i'd never purposefully hurt someone else's feelings. i don't have a strong hatred for any kind of person because i try not to project. i don't wanna say something like, "i hate bossy people" and then after some thinking realize i too have some traits that make me bossy. i don't want to be hypocritical. i'm also learning to balance what i give myself and what i give others
my thought process is basically just "i'm gonna do whatever is probably best in the long run and if i accidentally mess up and make someone feel bad i'm gonna sulk about it for days."

if i had to pick though, probably B


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## Deezzee (Nov 25, 2011)

Hmm..I think it depends on what counts as more compassionate than most people? I can only help within my own means...like I'll help my close friend but I can't promise to help 100 people, because I don't have the time and energy to spread myself so thin.

I'll probably go with option B, as I get overwhelmed and upset easily by a lot of stuff. (Although reading so much negative content has kind of made me numb/apathetic.) I think if other people were more sensitive, they wouldn't say so much toxic/mean comments without thinking.


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## Fennel (Jan 11, 2017)

For the sake of the question, B.
I'm not compassionate; my empathy is shot.
But I can't say I'm deep, either. It's more like, "Where did _that_ come from?" It's not _deep_ deep, just off-center.
Just sensitive, probably. At the same time, blind.


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## NIHM (Mar 24, 2014)

Llyralen said:


> 1. Which statement do you identify most with?
> 
> A. I am too compassionate.
> B. I feel too deeply.
> ...


Compared to other feelers not sure about how deeply I feel. Like compared to INFJ, I'm not as strong as those feelings. It takes a lot to get those darker parts to come out. I cry but it's like in front of people I trust, it's not very often in front of even family members. But if I'm having a shity day and my husband brings me mac and cheese from Panera I might tear up at the jester of how amazing he is, Something like that but it's brief and then I crush it. I'm probably overthinking this. 

I would probably be more A but it depends. I'm not compassionate to everyone. It's highly circumstantial for me. I mean if a Nazi who went and killed a bunch of people gets hit by a car... karma is what I'm going to think. My Fi can be vindictive if the moral hit card is presented. On the other hand, if someone is terminal, there's nothing we can do and they're suffering, and they need assistance on ending it... not sure if I would help but I probably could smash out a plan for them to do it. I know I'm a chicken. So I'm not sure if I'm number A. I'm probably overthinking this. 

I mean B maybe....... might win. Ohh it so hard because I'm so middle road. I can think of a good argument for both.


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## secondpassing (Jan 13, 2018)

B, I know I need to be more compassionate and feeling too deeply sometimes gets in the way of doing stuff.


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## Eugenia Shepherd (Nov 10, 2017)

Llyralen said:


> 1. Which statement do you identify most with?
> A. I am too compassionate.
> B. I feel too deeply.
> 2. Please discuss (if you can) why you chose this statement. Be as short or as long as you like.


I don't know.
I'm in what I like to call "work mode" too frequently to remain in either state for long.
If there's one choice, likely B.
I deliberately avoid getting involved in others' issues, unless my assistance/guidance is requested specifically.
I used to get "deeply" caught up in my emotions, but I've disciplined myself out of that, because it was harming me.
Given the amount of energy I need to "adult" properly, I simply don't have it in me (anymore) to fall
into mental distress. Taking responsibility~if I notice myself slipping a little, I turn the sinking ship around ASAP~
drink water, sleep, exercise, journal, or do whatever it takes to readjust.
Emotions can start to feel like an obstacle when I have an agenda involving unrelated things, even positive sentiments
like love or joy.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

I'm going to go with "I feel too deeply." Because the "too" makes it a negative. I don't think compassion is negative.

Compassion is sort of like understanding to me--it's like an understanding that someone else's pain is the same as mine, and that even if we are different we still have that common thread of humanity. And I think that's just reality...so to me compassion is about perception.

But feeling too deeply could mean that while I'm feeling compassion for someone, I'm also feeling their pain too deeply to even help with anything. Or I'm feeling guilt or helplessness too much (because I am motivated by compassion and want to help), and it distracts me from what I could be doing to help...which makes it worse for me or them.

So I would say that is my bigger problem because I have more trouble with it undermining my intentions...there have even been times I've accidentally hurt someone who loved me, because they had to see me suffer.

But mostly it's discipline, reality checks, and self-care, love, hope, and the willingness to keep trying--those can help. (I have like zero discipline lately, which I think is more of a problem than feeling too deeply or being too compassionate lol)


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## ai.tran.75 (Feb 26, 2014)

Llyralen said:


> 1. Which statement do you identify most with?
> 
> A. I am too compassionate.
> B. I feel too deeply.
> ...


I wish that I feel more deeply and that I can be more compassionate so it’s hard to pick between the 2 bc the words “too” make it seems as if feeling and compassion works against the individual. 


It’s hard to choose between the 2 - I don’t think I feel as deeply as other people . But I do enjoy introspecting and embracing how i feel and I can control my emotions , so I probably have a deeper understanding of my own personal feelings which works more towards my favor more so than against me . I don’t get as angry /sad /excitable /loud /angry expressive as others - often find I wish I could feel more deeply( except for the anger part ) 



Like what @NIHM says many ethical injustice can piss me off - such as child abuse /child neglect /sexism /racism etc etc 
I strongly believe that history will judge us by the difference we make in the everyday lives of children and as you know I work with children and coach parents and teachers on children’s behaviors for a living. So I guess between the two I lean towards compassionate? unsure


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## Vivid Melody (Apr 25, 2011)

My answer: *B. I feel too deeply. *

Option A just sounds like humble bragging lol or someone who feels like their good will has been taken advantage of -- they feel like a doormat. Outside of that, I don't think anyone can be _too_ compassionate. I don't really think anyone can feel _too_ deeply either, just some people are more sensitive than others and that can sometimes be overwhelming if they're dealing with negative emotions.

I'm HSP which is why I answered with B. I'd never trade feeling deeply about things because I'd also be trading away my ability to feel the positive things very deeply. I think one only gets themselves into trouble when they start over identifying with their own emotions rather than understanding why they feel them. Feelings don't automatically = truth. They are like the weather. A beautiful roller coaster.


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## Hexigoon (Mar 12, 2018)

The "I am too compassionate." one

I dont know if I feel all that deeply, or if I do I'm not so aware of it, it's a little foggy and confusing in there. Like looking into a dark hole and you don't know how deep down it goes, but it's probably not going to be a very nice place to venture into to find out. Scared of the monsters that most likely lurk in there.
But I've certainly been a little too compassionate for the wrong kinds of people and that did end up giving me something to feel deeply about.


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## Aelthwyn (Oct 27, 2010)

(I have been triggered warning: I am having an emotional reaction but whatever I say, I mean you no ill) 

I cannot agree to either of the orriginal statements because I do not think it is possible to care "too much" nor to feel "too much" and these phrases bother me a LOT. I think this is turning our strength into a weakness and I cannot support this. I think it is a shame that people think this is possible and assume compassion and deep feeling are a weakness in us feelers. I feel strongly that THAT is the problem with the world. Callousness is a terrible thing. 

When one handles strong feelings wrong, sure there can be problems, but it's not the fact that you have those deep feelings that is the problem. Compassion exercised without wisdom may result in great sacrifice, which is not a bad thing in itself if you give with a generous heart, but it can reduce your further ability to show compassion if your self isn't taken care of enough (ideally someone else would be caring for you as much as you are caring for others, but it is a sad truth that this is often not the case). 

Considering the way these are commonly used I imagine people woudl criticise me for both equally. I am often told I give in too easily to others pleas, and I am often told to stop being so expressive (news flash - the level of external expression isn't actualy a reliable gage of how much someone is feeling). I suppose my own selfishness, fear, or in-capability reduces my actual showing of compassion more than anything reduces my deep feeling? so... perhaps that is the answer to what you are getting at? 

As for the rephrased ones.... errr..... well it often feels like both. Again, I really couldn't say.

(I'm INFP)


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## OneTriz (Jul 17, 2019)

Llyralen said:


> 1. Which statement do you identify most with?
> 
> A. I am too compassionate.
> B. I feel too deeply.
> ...


I've only typed myself as ENFP recently but I frankly can't identify with either at all. I am very unfeeling and sometimes even sadistic. I don't think Fi is about whether you feel a lot or not, I think it's about whether you _want to_ feel a lot or not. Because I know many T-types, and a lot of them were emotional but didn't like it. That may have been a shitty explanation, but personally I feel like I'm at my best when I'm feeling a lot.


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## Kelly Kapowski (Apr 26, 2018)

B. I chose this one because I spend a ridiculous amount of time trying to figure them out & make sure they’re under control. I think my feelings make me weak. It’s wearing trying to keep them in check all of the time.

I agree w @Vivid Melody- A sounds like humble bragging.


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## Llyralen (Sep 4, 2017)

OneTriz said:


> I've only typed myself as ENFP recently but I frankly can't identify with either at all. I am very unfeeling and sometimes even sadistic. I don't think Fi is about whether you feel a lot or not, I think it's about whether you _want to_ feel a lot or not. Because I know many T-types, and a lot of them were emotional but didn't like it. That may have been a shitty explanation, but personally I feel like I'm at my best when I'm feeling a lot.


Hmm. Kind of a lot to unpack and process is here, isn’t there? I don’t know you, so I’m not sure how you are using the word sadistic. That’s a word I don’t hear without thinking it should be a diagnosis by an expert psychologist.

I’m an ENFP. Yes, I like feeling. It depends on the circumstance, the thing that is making me feel, but I often feel more than most people around me in a room. It depends on what has been happening to me, how much I identify with the subject and how much I feel there is of “me” going on, I guess. I used to feel really weird for being the only one crying or laughing in the audience when someone told their story of despair and triumph. Beautiful music often makes me cry spontaneously as well, so I have been thd only one with uncontrollable tears streaming down in a music hall more than once.

I think usually if we accept ourselves and our feelings, those of us with Fi love being surprised by the strength of our feelings or attachment. For instance, my INTJ sister in law told me a story about sobbing and as an adult causing a scene when told she had to leave a art museum for the evening. For me, I remember being at a reunion with about 15 young men I had worked with for a few years in hard circumstances but hadn’t seen for a few years and I sat there with tears pouring down my cheeks because I loved them each so much and the young men (my peers then) mostly just pretended not to notice. I don’t know if it was because they knew me well, had seen it before from me, or what. They for sure had all seen me be the only one with tears in a group before. But for me, it was hard for me to know what to do since nothing was really wrong and if asked what was wrong, the strength of my love and my joy would often be my answer. So I still sometimes don’t know what to do when leaving seems like it might cause a bigger scene or make something into a bigger deal than it even is. All is normal— I’m crying like normal, is pretty much the thing. I cry every week at church. Hopefully people understand. I think they see my joy and must understand somehow. Actually, I have no idea what others think about it, except that some people can really love me for it and will sometimes shed a few tears with me together when we talk.

At a conference with therapists about Eating Disorders I cried and laughed harder than others when a patient told their heart-wrenching story and sometimes humorous story of recovery. I thought, looking around, here I am with fellow people who work in the field and for some reason I’m still feeling more spontaneously than others here, enough to stand out much more than I want to.

But…if there was a room full of ENFPs, only a few of us might react the exact way I am to those particular things. Because these are the things I can most identify with and most feel who I am because of the strength of my feelings. With some other topic, with something I have not experienced myself, or something that I don’t identify with, I might stay dry-eyed. I stayed dry-eyed at my high school reunion, there wasn’t much I related to or feeling going on there. I might even stay dry-eyed if people are talking about the death of their parents since I haven’t experienced the loss of a parent yet. Depending on if I was able to put myself into their shoes or not.

With Fi, at least on the SI-Ne axis, how much you feel sometimes has to do with how much you can put yourself into the shoes of the other person. How much can you personally identify with?

Movies and stories bring Fi in when it’s well-written so that you can follow what your feelings would be if in those circumstances, and people who tell us their stories in a way that makes it easy to put ourselves there usually illicit more feeling from us. Poetry for me is another way somehow to build or decribe that landscape of feeling quickly and where I can jump in easily. Music is very emotional and easy usually to make us feel. At any rate, feeling novrls might help if the outside world isn’t giving enough experiences of kindness or of hardship. This is what I do, for instance, is read to make me understand people’s circumstance better. Developing compassion is something important in every person, I think.

What do you think?


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## Llyralen (Sep 4, 2017)

Aelthwyn said:


> (I have been triggered warning: I am having an emotional reaction but whatever I say, I mean you no ill)
> 
> I cannot agree to either of the orriginal statements because I do not think it is possible to care "too much" nor to feel "too much" and these phrases bother me a LOT. I think this is turning our strength into a weakness and I cannot support this. I think it is a shame that people think this is possible and assume compassion and deep feeling are a weakness in us feelers. I feel strongly that THAT is the problem with the world. Callousness is a terrible thing.
> 
> ...


Yes, I agree! This is why I wrote the thread and why I made these statements the way I did.

I had a boss once who told me on more than one occasion “I am too compassionate” and she meant it as a defect to uproot in herself and she had a fear that she could be easily taken advantage of. She also had a fear that she would make real business mistakes due to being too compassionate. As a result she actually did some big things that were very uncompassionate and actually with very poor judgement. She was a bit at the mercy of what she thought this “defect” meant for her and what she should do. I think she often thought, listening to the world, that she should do the opposite of her feelings. This is incidental, I think, but in her specific case she was an ESFJ. On purpose she limited, hampered, and hobbled her compassion. Her strength became a poor weakness. Again, this is incidental, but I have suffered for years due to her doing that. Like I said, she made some very cruel decisions because she thought she was too compassionate, as a defect. She actively fought her compassion. 

So for me, I’ve never believed that you can be too compassionate and I was very surprised at her thinking. But I also thought “Maybe she feels really scared that she can be taken advantage of.” And she did. So maybe for her, she didn’t have enough safe-guards or enough other powers of perception to be able to use her compassion to consistent good results for herself and others. 

But have I felt like I feel too much? As a defect? It seems obvious that I have (read the above post), and has it made it hard for me? Sometimes. In fact, the same boss tried to write me up for tears of joy at work once. She might have tried to fire me for it saying it was childish to have tears at work. I spoke to my co-workers and they seemed to have a huge fear of tears at work or school as well. . I don’t know if this was just from this incidence with me. My tear ducts work way too well, I have had to have some kind of tolerance for my own tears and I definitely have a huge tolerance for anyone else’s. Please show me where there is a prohibition in the mission statement of this company against tears? 

But anyway, despite what was going on there, at times, in general, when I react with more emotion than others in the room and can only control it so far and it is useless, or so it seems to me, to leave or do anything else. I might even be in charge and cannot really take care of my emotions at the moment— well. I think there might be a foil about my boss in that she did not feel she had abilities to keep herself safe and s ok she cut off her compassion. And for me how many times I’ve tried to make decisions that ignored my emotion or cut off my emotion because I also didn’t have the power to turn it off. Am I doing what she did in the flip-side? My tear ducts work way too much… but even worse than not knowing how to deal with this exactly in public, would be to hobble or cut my emotions out or punish myself or others or be afraid of others’ judgement due to it. Instead, I have to accept myself, it comes on without me knowing, and I don’t have much defense physically, but I do have acceptance and I can trust the majority of others to accept me too so that I don’t hobble myself or live in fear and I hopefully don’t make decisions that are too hard on myself. I also trust or like to enjoy imagining that others feel as much as I do without their tear-ducts working as well as mine do. It doesn’t exactly explain my laughing and smiling more than others either, but I dont know. I want to accept myself and others.

I think if I wondered if I was smarter than others and then decided to trust everyone was as smart as me… there’s the same sort of confusion and comfort in that. It’s really when you just notice that you’re maybe different that it is hard, and how to deal with that, how to place that information in your mind… and we could talk about that with almost any attribute, I guess. What is the healthy way to understand yourself and others when you have data to show you are different— but no diagnosis. And I don’t want a diagnosis either. I test as HSP and I hate the idea of HSP too. I think the people writing about it are snobs. I want to believe that I’m like everyone, that we all have something to deal with, that we all need acceptance from ourselves and others. And that in multiple ways it is universal. There are so many ways to be different. 

I think I used to challenge myself to make decisions that would make me grow, make me tougher, but I learned at some point, luckily that there was more to making a wise decision. That the right decision wasn’t always the hard one, but sometimes the obvious or happy one. I wish my boss, wherever she is, maybe learns that at some point too.


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## OneTriz (Jul 17, 2019)

Llyralen said:


> Hmm. Kind of a lot to unpack and process is here, isn’t there? I don’t know you, so I’m not sure how you are using the word sadistic. That’s a word I don’t hear without thinking it should be a diagnosis by an expert psychologist.


I'm using sadistic in the "I enjoy hurting other people" way. Emotionally-wise mostly. I hate that they get to feel more than me and so I want to use their feelings against them. I want to destroy them. I can usually keep it under control but sometimes I just go for the pain.


Llyralen said:


> I think usually if we accept ourselves and our feelings, those of us with Fi love being surprised by the strength of our feelings or attachment.


Okay? I don't feel shit. I'm not some kind of traumatized angel that stopped feeling in order to protect myself. I have no idea why I'm like this and I hate it.


Llyralen said:


> Depending on if I was able to put myself into their shoes or not.


So Fi is empathy and attachment? In that case I have no Fi at all.


Llyralen said:


> What do you think?


Perhaps you're confusing being a sensitive person with Fi.


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## Llyralen (Sep 4, 2017)

OneTriz said:


> I'm using sadistic in the "I enjoy hurting other people" way. Emotionally-wise mostly. I hate that they get to feel more than me and so I want to use their feelings against them. I want to destroy them. I can usually keep it under control but sometimes I just go for the pain.
> 
> Okay? I don't feel shit. I'm not some kind of traumatized angel that stopped feeling in order to protect myself. I have no idea why I'm like this and I hate it.
> 
> ...


I doubt that I’m confusing Fi for being sensitive. I also was not trying to attack you, but from what you’ve said here, If you like hurting others then this is the kind of response you might have. But hmm… not feeling at all? Probably not Fi and probably not exactly what is going on from your reactions.

People who use Fi to hurt others use the ability I’m talking about to attack. They put themselves into someone else’s shoes in order to figure out what the other person might be feeling and then they use that knowledge to attack or manipulate. Same ability either used for compassion or for self-protection or for manipulation in a few cases.

For your own sake hopefully you can get some help.
I dislike it when people blame the traits that they need to change on having a certain function… almost like they expect other people who have that function to use it with the same intentions they do. I usually stand up for the function itself when I see that. But maybe you are standing up for Fi too, saying it doesn’t always lead to compassion. Well, that’s something to think about, maybe. Maybe the neutrality of a function and someone’s motives and intensions being what makes them really different in each person. 


If you can’t control yourself, I can put you on ignore soon enough so we will see how it goes. Good luck and hopefully you can get some help.


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## OneTriz (Jul 17, 2019)

Llyralen said:


> I doubt that I’m confusing Fi for being sensitive. I also was not trying to attack you, but from what you’ve said here, If you like hurting others then this is the kind of response you might have. But hmm… not feeling at all? Probably not Fi and probably not exactly what is going on from your reactions.


You seem to have interpreted my statements in a way that paints me as hostile or angry. I see myself as a Fi user in that I am generally well aware of what emotional energy I have, and what emotions I had. I have a lot of emotional energy but little emotion. I often reflect on what I feel, I don't see how I could be a Fe user when I am much more focused on my own emotions than the ones of others.


Llyralen said:


> For your own sake hopefully you can get some help.
> I dislike it when people blame the traits that they need to change on having a certain function… almost like they expect other people who have that function to use it with the same intentions they do. I usually stand up for the function itself when I see that. But maybe you are standing up for Fi too, saying it doesn’t always lead to compassion. Well, that’s something to think about, maybe. Maybe the neutrality of a function and someone’s motives and intensions being what makes them really different in each person.


I'm not blaming my traits on Fi/lack of Fi. I'm just pointing out constructive criticism for the OP to not assume Fi = sensitive deep feeling soul in all cases.


Llyralen said:


> If you can’t control yourself, I can put you on ignore soon enough so we will see how it goes. Good luck and hopefully you can get some help.


What?


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## tarmonk (Nov 21, 2017)

OneTriz said:


> You seem to have interpreted my statements in a way that paints me as hostile or angry. I see myself as a Fi user in that I am generally well aware of what emotional energy I have, and what emotions I had. I have a lot of emotional energy but little emotion. I often reflect on what I feel, I don't see how I could be a Fe user when I am much more focused on my own emotions than the ones of others.
> 
> I'm not blaming my traits on Fi/lack of Fi. I'm just pointing out constructive criticism for the OP to not assume Fi = sensitive deep feeling soul in all cases.


According to my current understanding, F isn't an actual source which generates feelings by its own. It's a judging style that involves guts and interpersonal factors more than for users of T preference for whom these aspects are somewhat suppressed in judging. How else T users would get their feelings if it was vice versa  Nope, it's not because they theoretically have unconcious F attitude. I couldn't comment if F even makes person more sensitive or have better awareness of their own or other people's feelings.

I don't have F judging preference but most of time I'm pretty well aware of my feels / internal state and I can easily sense through other people's internal state too - how to explain it then, if only F was responsible for that  Thus it must come from other factors.

F/T are judging styles not about actual emotions/feelings or lack of them. Easiest way to get a rough idea about difference is to think of suppression same way it appears in S vs N (intuition is suppressed in case of S) and SE vs SI (impression of the perceived object is suppressed in case of SE).


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## OneTriz (Jul 17, 2019)

tarmonk said:


> According to my current understanding, F isn't an actual source which generates feelings by its own.


Correct. What I mean to say was that Fi types tend to reflect on their feelings more, whether they are sensitive or not.


tarmonk said:


> I don't have F judging preference but most of time I'm pretty well aware of my feels / internal state and I can easily sense through other people's internal state too - how to explain it then, if only F was responsible for that  Thus it must come from other factors.


Hm interesting. I think I should have elaborated on my F judging preference meaning that I often assign value to what I feel or don't feel.


tarmonk said:


> F/T are judging styles not about actual emotions/feelings or lack of them. Easiest way to get a rough idea about difference is to think of suppression same way it appears in S vs N (intuition is suppressed in case of S) and SE vs SI (impression of the perceived object is suppressed in case of SE).


Well yeah, that was my point. I was saying to the OP to not assume all NFs are sensitive deep feeling souls.


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## tarmonk (Nov 21, 2017)

OneTriz said:


> Hm interesting. I think I should have elaborated on my F judging preference meaning that I often assign value to what I feel or don't feel.


Yep, you might want to think about your judging style and see if it's different from F. I'm not good at giving advice what to check exactly  anyway it's some judging if you assign value to that. If how you analyse and come to conclusions, doesn't involve too much interpersonal and gut related factors, it's more like T. It's very hard to explain what those "guts" mean but it's easy to see diff for me while looking at clearly F person - but input from clearly F person would be appreciated to explain what those "guts" mean as I don't have clear idea


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## MsMojiMoe (Apr 7, 2021)

when I first read this I didn’t take it as negative…but as what you personally do more.
after skimming I noticed some took it as negative

so, from my perspective….I am too deep, but I have no desire to change this

from a more negative view or something I would like to change to be less is ….too compassionate


my story (personal story but it’s good to know the mental framework going on) for those who wonder why someone would see this negative

so many ppl find this as a gift, tho it can be but I don’t always agree with myself in this regard, I find it to be a bit of a curse
tho, I do admit that a lot more ppl in this world could be a lot more compassionate to others, themselves, and all living things

I have this step mom I can’t stand

a background
-age6-12, I had this really mean evil stepmom
— my dad was in the military, we moved a lot, over 20 schools, never grew up with real family except dad
—this evil stepmom use to blame me for everything, if I didn’t admit to it, she would use a belt on me until i admitted to it
after awhile I just took the blame for everything, it was never her kids that didnt flush the toilet, etc
—after the divorce, I swore to myself I would never take the blame for something I didn’t do, ever again
—my dad was never home so he just believe my stepmom, I was a bratty kid

—fast forward to new stepmom, I was 17-18ish, married within 2 months,
—$12-14 was taken from her, again I was blame, never their kids
—I stood by my promise to myself and didn’t give in
—I was kick out …with no family, money, just min. wage job bc of 12 dollars and me telling the truth
—-when I was 23 we try to reconnect at disneyland
—I was willing to forgive and move on…really I just wanted to see my dad, I was already abandon by my mom when I was young, we reconnect at this point…I missed him
—I thought about giving in bc that’s all my dad say I needed to do, so we can heal and trust again, smh
— but we were all getting along, until one of the roller coasters, …on roller coasters they have camera thru the ride to take your pic, she didn’t want her picture….and I made the mistake and say….dont duck, be in the picture with us…you’re going to ruin it…..meaning she is going to ruin the pic if she is not in it with us…trying to included her
—when we got off the ride, and looking at the pictures, (which she duck), her arm was still in the picture, so I jokingly said,haha, you’re still in the picture with us
—she thru a fit right there in front of everyone and started screaming at me, how she Ruin the pic, cuss me out
—this was my 23rd birthday, btw and I was send home in a cab after not seeing or heAring from my dad in years
—after another 4 years my dad finally call me but only at his work, wouldn’t want to make his wife angry
and that’s how it’s been for 12 years
—then I saw them at my granddads funeral

understand I hate her at this point and so angry at my dad

she has not only kept my dad from me but rest of his family

so here is where I hate my compassion, sometimes…it should be deserve not aiding bad behavior

she was there all alone, in a corner bc no one liked her, she looked so scared and out of place…me growing up always the new kid, in the new school, with the new family, and a whole new set of friends, I know what its like to be the outsider
so what did I do, I fought it like hell, but I went and sat by her and talk to her so she didn’t have to be alone. She was being nice, something felt a little different about her. but I couldn’t believe I was doing this, mad at myself, I don’t want to like her, get along with her, I don’t care at this point, but there I was trying to comfort someone who didn’t deserve it….why, i Still don’t like her or forgive her, so, my behaviors is a mystery to me sometimes

Since then, we all get along better, we don’t live in the same state,o we don’t visit each other but I’m allowed to talk to my dad now, but we don’t talk about anything real. I love my dad but I kinda feel superficial when talking with him.

idk, I hate that i do this, i still don’t like her

i wish I could just not care sometimes, I really do, make my life so much easier.


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## ai.tran.75 (Feb 26, 2014)

OneTriz said:


> Well yeah, that was my point. I was saying to the OP to not assume all NFs are sensitive deep feeling souls.


I’m definitely more emotionally aware compared to my istp partner , however he feels more deeply than I do. F pertains to judging more so than sensitivity imho


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## ai.tran.75 (Feb 26, 2014)

tarmonk said:


> Yep, you might want to think about your judging style and see if it's different from F. I'm not good at giving advice what to check exactly  anyway it's some judging if you assign value to that. If how you analyse and come to conclusions, doesn't involve too much interpersonal and gut related factors, it's more like T. It's very hard to explain what those "guts" mean but it's easy to see diff for me while looking at clearly F person - but input from clearly F person would be appreciated to explain what those "guts" mean as I don't have clear idea


It’s not much of guts but I believe fi tends to make decisions / trusts what they value over what’s considered cold hard facts and values are subjective from person to person. That’s the main difference that I’ve seen between F vs T . 
Also I believe fi have a better sense of understanding of where their feelings are deriving from more so than a thinking type . I can control my emotions easily because I understand where they’re deriving from . 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

MsMojiMoe said:


> i wish I could just not care sometimes, I really do, make my life so much easier.


Wow--they both (both the evil step moms) sound totally abusive. I also had an evil step mom.

I guess for me, in part, maybe it's wanting to treat others better than the way people I don't respect (like evil stepmothers) treat others? Following my own principles? Turning the cheek/taking the high road? Out of respect for myself?

I won't hurt them either, but it's because of my own self-respect, and not wanting to be like them. Not wanting to sink to their level.

And I don't need to say anything because I know it. I don't need to be insulting or try to make myself seem better than them. Because in my mind, I am already being better by not doing what they are doing/did.

And on some level I think they feel that and it makes them uncomfortable (and sometimes threatened or angry as they try to get a reaction). Especially if you are a child and they are an adult. 

My step mom was always trying to get a reaction from me and it was annoying. But I tried to be polite and respectful, but not going to actually forgive or like her. lol And I think she liked me even less for it! lol

But I didn't have to live with her or be left alone with her a lot, and I am sorry that happened to you--it sounds horrible and of course you'd want to keep touch with your dad.


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## MsMojiMoe (Apr 7, 2021)

WickerDeer said:


> Wow--they both (both the evil step moms) sound totally abusive. I also had an evil step mom.
> 
> I guess for me, in part, maybe it's wanting to treat others better than the way people I don't respect (like evil stepmothers) treat others? Following my own principles? Turning the cheek/taking the high road? Out of respect for myself?
> 
> ...


thanks
i completely get everything you said

luckily I only had a few years with the first one and The second one I wasn’t there too long, it wasn’t my whole childhood and at least they weren’t my real mothers…the first one was by far the most evil, her own daughter’s dad die, accidental drowning, when she was three and he left a trust fund for her when she turn a certain age….her own mom, my stepmom, talked her into buying a condo in Florida with her, and like a year later, my stepmom sold it and kept all the money, ….did that to her own daughter.

it baffles me how ppl can purposely hurt others. I hate seeing suffering of any kind.

anyways, there is this song by, a perfect circle, rock song….called Judith, and the very first line in that is….
“You're such an inspiration for the ways
That I'll never ever choose to be”

i think of my stepmoms every time or just ppl like that, who prefer violence over wisdom, who likes hurting others etc
I find it very inspiring and feel a positive strength with it….sometimes I feel this world wants me to become mean, hateful, violent but I’m like “no, I’m not going to let you win by letting your actions change me into you”….but I do wish sometimes like with my stepmom in the story where I show her compassion, that I wouldn’t do that, but I know deep down I have no desire to ever be like her…and this/her Lack of compassion, is what makes us different…..even when I don’t want to be understanding, I’m understanding, in most cases.

some of the good things that came out of it was it taught me to define myself more, like I know what I don’t want to become, learn my personal values bc I wasn’t taught them….
taught me to have thick skin, and became Less naive
taught me how to be a survivor
taught me how to stand by my own principles/I know I’m not all talk, (which did cost a lot, the absence of my father in most of my adult life, but it’s getting better now)
some Of the things off the top of my head


so yes I agree with you 🙂 I relate


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## tarmonk (Nov 21, 2017)

ai.tran.75 said:


> It’s not much of guts but I believe fi tends to make decisions / trusts what they value over what’s considered cold hard facts and values are subjective from person to person. That’s the main difference that I’ve seen between F vs T .
> Also I believe fi have a better sense of understanding of where their feelings are deriving from more so than a thinking type . I can control my emotions easily because I understand where they’re deriving from .


Maybe mbti defines it somehow differently, I'm not expert to tell - but I think it's not so much about subjectiveness or lack of it either - we all are somewhat subjective in different ways I'd say it's more about impersonal vs interpersonal connection with the objects to be judged - anyone confirm or object if I'm not correct. Both ways can still be subjective in some situations.

But probably some other factors play role as well in understanding feelings and their source, not only judging style is responsible for that. I don't consider myself F any more after years of mistyping myself - got better understanding about myself and types this year, but I have no difficulty whatsoever understanding my feels and internal state - thus something else seems to be behind that. I bet it's coming more likely from introverted sensing for me as it's related to clearer sense of self among other features, but is sometimes mistakenly thought to be F by some people (seen that in various threads). But I can only tell about myself, other types might have different sources for understanding those signals - I don't know yet.


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## Antiparticle (Jan 8, 2013)

A, I associate "compassion" with others, "feeling to deeply" with myself. I don't feel particularly deep about myself, and prefer focus on the external (others).


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## ai.tran.75 (Feb 26, 2014)

tarmonk said:


> Maybe mbti defines it somehow differently, I'm not expert to tell - but I think it's not so much about subjectiveness or lack of it either - we all are somewhat subjective in different ways I'd say it's more about impersonal vs interpersonal connection with the objects to be judged - anyone confirm or object if I'm not correct. Both ways can still be subjective in some situations.
> 
> But probably some other factors play role as well in understanding feelings and their source, not only judging style is responsible for that. I don't consider myself F any more after years of mistyping myself - got better understanding about myself and types this year, but I have no difficulty whatsoever understanding my feels and internal state - thus something else seems to be behind that. I bet it's coming more likely from introverted sensing for me as it's related to clearer sense of self among other features, but is sometimes mistakenly thought to be F by some people (seen that in various threads). But I can only tell about myself, other types might have different sources for understanding those signals - I don't know yet.


Mbti isn’t accurate- so understanding oneself or self awareness shouldn’t be cognitively related . However if one was to base their final decision upon what aligned with their values ( F) or what’s objectively /logically correct (T). It’s harder to decipher when ones t and f are stack next to one another but prominent to see when it’s f-dom vs t-dom. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## tarmonk (Nov 21, 2017)

ai.tran.75 said:


> Mbti isn’t accurate- so understanding oneself or self awareness shouldn’t be cognitively related . However if one was to base their final decision upon what aligned with their values ( F) or what’s objectively /logically correct (T). It’s harder to decipher when ones t and f are stack next to one another but prominent to see when it’s f-dom vs t-dom.


Hmm I both agree and somewhat disagree. I'm not exactly into that values thing - all of us have some values, just different. Not a personality thing in my opinion. Maybe even that's personal preferences not actual values depending on type, idk.

You're into belief that unconcious (tert/inf) are actually usable tools? That's what I don't personally think it works that way - but it could be just me  At least haven't realized how to take apart unconcious and see it actually working.


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## WraithOfNightmare (Jun 20, 2019)

Some things:

1. I am economically leftist but socially somewhat conservative / center-right. This means while I believe in free or heavily subsidized social services and education, socially I am pro-marriage, pro-family, one man, one woman, and don’t see myself as a progressive or liberal past a certain point. And my left-leaning economics are a means to an end, which I feel should lead to greater support for my more center-right beliefs. I do see a problem with the patriarchy and grew up being raised by women, but I feel gender rights advocates on both sides take it too far, and that at the end of the day, we should return to the belief that men and women ultimately need each other, that men and women should fall in love and marry and start families etc. Complementary rather than conflicting.

As an only child from an Asian background, I’m kind of expected to do it too. Fortunately it’s also something I want for myself anyway. 


2. I come off as quiet, a bit mysterious, and not easy to get to know, but I’m taking in a whole lot more than what the other person realizes. I’m understanding, analyzing as I listen. I don’t call people out for their crap unless I’m backed into a corner, but I’m very sensitive to attempts to harm and control me, and by the time someone with those intentions asks why I’m being distant, I’m well on my way to cutting them out. 


3. As a continuation of Point #2, I hate to admit it but despite coming off as shy, unassuming, and seemingly able to tolerate everything, I have very strong feelings about stuff. Many descriptions of INFPs paint us as tolerant saints who never impose or dominate anyone, but I feel that’s not really true. Although I rarely go out of my way to tell people they should believe something or listen to me, I make it clear in a subtle / indirect way that although they can feel free to disagree, only if they align themselves on the same page as me regarding what I feel are core issues, will I be willing to really let them in and take the relationship to the next level. INFJs can be really good at this too. 

Basically it’s a kind of giving people freedom but not really giving them full freedom, if you know what I mean lol. The closer you are to me, the more morally and intellectually demanding (in a way) I become. It’s more of an unwritten set of expectations, and once again, as much as I hate to admit it, they’re pretty damn high. When I raise my voice or outwardly express my upset, I’m giving you a chance. When I am “disappointed” and silently back away, that’s when I’m at my scariest. Thankfully I’ve only had to do that to a few, but when I reach that point, pray for a miracle if you ever want to hear from me again.


4. I’m not always as good of a verbal communicator as I am a written one. When I write something down it gives me more time to think it through and say it in a way that’s most accurate and authentic. The contradiction is I often crave more verbal communication and wish I was better at it.


5. As I get older (well, relatively speaking) or rather, feel older despite being in my twenties, I’ve started to take my efforts to record and document my experiences. This usually involves writing things down and taking photos of the places I travel to, stuff like that. In the past I saw no value whatsoever in preserving any memories in a tangible way, because I thought all of them were matters of the mind. Could this be me unlocking my tertiary Introverted Sensing?



6. I spend a lot more time thinking and planning and over planning, and a lot less time than I could use to actually do stuff. I don’t readily show it but deep down I worry a lot and fear failure. I also ruminate a whole lot.


7. I’ve developed a much greater liking for instrumental / alternative music (not avant grade or anything experimental, just stuff that’s not songs) over the years. In fact I probably listen to them more than songs these days.


8. A rebel in mind, who desires love and security at heart. I’m not nearly as confident and secure of an individual despite what I proclaim. All of that zeal, all of that talk of the abstract and “big stuff” is only a cover for the vulnerable soul within.


9. I can totally weird people out if I told them all of the seemingly unrelated connections between things that I try to ponder in my mind.


10. For a long time I’ve identified with a more feminine psyche and even now I still do although my ability to get along with guys has somewhat improved over time. There’s just something in me that makes women, even on a purely platonic level, feel at ease. I’ve never seen doing certain “girly” things or shying away from “girl talk” as something I have to do. It’s given me a lot of sympathy for what they go through (even though I still see certain things with a typical men’s brain), with the darker side being that I was the one that had to console my mom and put up with her stress and tantrums. Single parent household.

I’ve never understood why being “Mr. Nice Guy” or concepts like the “friend zone” are so often brought up. I’ve never encountered these problems, if anything being who I am has been an asset.


11. Those who understand me think I’m a lot stronger than I look when they see me from the outside. I always feel I have less energy than they give me credit for.


12. I both love and hate giving people advice for their emotional issues. Love because I genuinely want to help them out, hate because I’ve been used by emotional vampires before and also because I constantly wonder whether I’m being too authoritative and whether I’m not helping them enough. I don’t want to come off as controlling (though deep down I probably am a bit) but also don’t want to feel like I’ve done nothing useful.




13. Drinking bitter coffee is a learned trait for me. Blame me for being a night owl. Overall I prefer tea over coffee.



14. I have a jealous streak when I’m attached to someone. And it can get pretty nasty if you’re not one who can handle it easily. I don’t want you associating with people I feel are too different from me, I don’t want you spending so much time away from me, and I don’t want you to challenge my beliefs and my thinking of what’s best for you, for stuff all the time. (Yes, being brutally honest here.)



15. I give a lot but also expect a lot. Never try to prove your sincerity to me by throwing gifts my way all the time, I can’t be bought by stuff. What do I mean by expecting a lot? See points #3 and #14.



16. I can tell you the biology and social structures of more than a dozen species of coral reef fish, as well as talk on and on about geeky stuff of all kinds, but I don’t know jack when it comes to handling a lot of the simplest everyday stuff.


17. I consume much less sweet stuff like pastries than I used to. I also stick to more poultry and seafood than other meats and it’s been this way for a while. 


18. Robots and other technologies creep the hell out of me. I remember being scared out of my wits when I was pushed onto one of those electrical rides (or whatever the proper term is) as a kid.


19. The closest I’ve ever been to being a male soprano was when a cockroach flew onto my back. 


20. A lot of stuff that passes for “Chinese” or “Thai” has made me feel like unleashing my inner Gordon Ramsay (or, more accurately, Uncle Roger). Similarly, a trip to Italy killed my desire to ever have “Italian” again.

21. If I could give dating advice to my future kids: Don’t go for the Chad or drop dead gorgeous gal and assume they got the qualities you want when you know them better. Go for the shy but kind guy or gal who looks decent to good enough, that you could see aging gracefully, that doesn’t make themselves so obvious at first, someone with a sense of humor. Then get hitched, and pop out a couple little grandkids for your old man. 

Sorry for making this so long.


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## 68097 (Nov 20, 2013)

I would say I have more empathy than emotion, if that makes any sense -- I tend to ignore my own emotional responses a lot of the time (being a 6, my feelings follow my thoughts) but it's extremely hard for me to avoid imagining the pain of others and experiencing it through my own sense of it -- recently, someone asked an ESFJ I know to do the hair on the corpse of a friend she had just learned was in a car accident. For two days, I could not get the emotional horror of that out of my mind; it was totally distracting, like a pressing upon my heart and mind. That's one reason I avoid reading about cruel things -- it's way too easy to imagine the emotions of the situation and feel devastated by the abuse/cruelty/torture/etc. 

Of the list, I identify more with 1 -- being too compassionate. It's not bad because it enables me to be a good person who forgives and gives people second chances... but on the bad end, it enables others to take too much advantage over me, to ask forgiveness too many times without deserving it, and to call upon me to do the most work in a relational dynamic, and that's not good. I'm slowly learning to feel sorry for someone, without feeling obligated to do anything about it.


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## WraithOfNightmare (Jun 20, 2019)

I have noticed this in myself, maybe it’s true for other INFPs and to a degree, NFJs too. It is that while I rarely straight up tell people what to believe and what to think, I subtly influence them so that over time their views and their stances on things align more and more with mine. I give a lot to the people I care about, but it comes with the subtle expectation that I will be their primary influence and I try to steer them away from other influences / other world views that I feel will take them in a drastically different direction.

So one thing about me is that I do a lot to show I care, but with the expectation (though often not explicitly expressed) that my world view and my views will be the dominant ones among the people in said person’s life. It’s like a subtle expectation that when faced with multiple points of view and not entirely sure on what to do, that the other person would kind of “default” to mine.

So I disagree with many online descriptions that paint NFs, including INFPs, as mellow and gentle creatures that have no desire to influence or control. That has not been true for me. On the surface I tell people I will let them explore different points of view and make their own decisions, and that’s true to an extent. However, deep down I hope and expect that they will give the most weight to mine, and sometimes if I feel like (from my POV) they’re being led in a direction I don’t like, I pull them away by telling them so and so isn’t being a good influence on them.

So it’s not a one-party system but a dominant party one, lol. And I believe that not all opinions / not all options are to be weighed equally. Personally I find I have the most clarity and stability in my own life when I have no more than 2-3 people that I can turn to, rather than having more people in my life for the sake of diversity.

Of course this kind of dynamic in friendship and relationships won’t appeal to everyone. I can see how someone with a very different world view with regards to which influences they take in find my style to be excessively overbearing and patronizing even when I also show that I care a lot about them.


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## speckle (Jul 18, 2017)

Llyralen said:


> 1. Which statement do you identify most with?
> 
> A. I am too compassionate.
> B. I feel too deeply.
> ...


I disagree with both statements. I think being compassionate and feeling deeply are really good things and things I strive to do more of. Maybe it's because Fi is my auxillary function (I'm ENFP), so I need to remind myself to be more "feeler" than "thinker" if I'm going to be my best self.

If the question is which is more true of me, though- "I am compassionate" or "I feel deeply"- then I would say "I am compassionate" is more accurate. I tend to numb my feelings at times or lose touch with them because I'm too busy reacting to others. This could relate to my Enneagram type (9) too.


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## Llyralen (Sep 4, 2017)

WraithOfNightmare said:


> I have noticed this in myself, maybe it’s true for other INFPs and to a degree, NFJs too. It is that while I rarely straight up tell people what to believe and what to think, I subtly influence them so that over time their views and their stances on things align more and more with mine. I give a lot to the people I care about, but it comes with the subtle expectation that I will be their primary influence and I try to steer them away from other influences / other world views that I feel will take them in a drastically different direction.
> 
> So one thing about me is that I do a lot to show I care, but with the expectation (though often not explicitly expressed) that my world view and my views will be the dominant ones among the people in said person’s life. It’s like a subtle expectation that when faced with multiple points of view and not entirely sure on what to do, that the other person would kind of “default” to mine.
> 
> ...


I see the same kind of manipulation and expectation of manipulation in my sister, an INFP, which is interesting because I was just about to answer that when you grow up in a family with mostly Ps you would expect everyone to follow their own conscience. However, my INTP sister is completely led and wrapped around the INFP’s finger as are others. When I am around the INFP for several hours, her manipulation expectation is so strong I start to feel crazy and she doesn’t like dealing with someone else whose influence is usually strong so she works harder to maintain control of all— so I guess my question for myself would be how much I expect the weight of my opinion to carry in a relationship? I know I expect it to count or to be argued with at least, but I think I’ve realized when the opinion I’ve got really doesn’t matter to them or to me in the end. That opinion on that movie is not worth a fight, losing a friend over, or feeling like I need to push the opinion harder. It is interesting that we all do control or influence our world, just in different ways, because from a J-type of controlling-ness-perspective I am the paragon of the P who accepts, lives and lets live. In my personal relationships I do expect my opinion and ideas to matter. So this is very interesting to define the type of control that a P can exerts as how far we want our influence or opinion to matter. Many of us Ps want our opinion to matter, but how far do we go with it?

This is a very interesting observation. I wonder if it has more to do with Enneagram — it is definitely an important aspect of relationships to look at.


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