# What Does a Healthy Sx/Sp Look Like?



## Ventricity (Mar 30, 2009)

Ananael said:


> Lol no. I just want something that stimulates me all the time and lasts. I don't need to find deeper connections with every person I meet or all the people in a room. So spread's itself too thin, while Sp hoards things to itself in my opinion.


not really because the social instinct is inferior and used in relation to that fact. an sx/so person is more romantic, more adventurous and more forgiving about flaws. an sx/sp person will have a notebook of things that he hates about you, and he'll let you know it when angry.

this is sx/sp in normal relationship mode, watch him break out some repressed sp love around 4 min mark, enjoy:


----------



## Helios (May 30, 2012)

Ventricity said:


> not really because the social instinct is inferior and used in relation to that fact. _*an sx/so person is more romantic, more adventurous and more forgiving about flaws.*_ an sx/sp person _*will have a notebook of things that he hates about you, and he'll let you know it when angry.*_


I don't think what I described is related to the social instinct so much as it was the sexual instinct-- deep connections to people or passions that "get you going." The stress on connections made in the social instinct is more of wanting to resign one's self to something outside of the personal realm and placing a great weight on interactions of all kinds between people in general. So has more of a breadth to it while Sx can be more associated with depth. 

The bolded is not true, and I think that has more to do with reactions to personal experiences and maybe even your core type. 
The guy strikes me as more of an sp/sx though, honestly.


----------



## Ventricity (Mar 30, 2009)

Ananael said:


> The bolded is not true, and I think that has more to do with reactions to personal experiences and maybe even your core type.
> The guy strikes me as more of an sp/sx though, honestly.


you must remember that the instincts are selfish in nature. an sp person is someone who looks for personal comfort(through his quest for safety). speaking not only of personal experience, but also from theory, as the very definition of sp, the sexual instinct will only increase those annoyances because they're qualities that are related to the object of their desire. sometimes they will never really say what annoys them at all, simply because they can be bad at communicating, lacking social grace. of course i'm talking mostly of unhealthy variants.

the main character in the clip i posted is most certainly sx/sp 5w6/6w5. bergman himself was sx/sp 4w5, and this character is a reflection of his thoughts about faith. a person who is sp/sx is much more industrious and not as contemplative.


----------



## Bricolage (Jul 29, 2012)

J Squirrel said:


> *Is emo*


Pretty much. If you look at Trent Reznor (5w4 sx/sp) over time he gets more grounded (sp) and less conflicted and angst-ridden. Probably related, in Trent's case, to getting off booze and smack. :kitteh:


----------



## inabox (Oct 3, 2015)

Well, some healthy sx/sp s who come to mind:

- Angelina Jolie (3w4 6w7 8w7 sx/sp) : compare the unconventional and shock-inspiring behaviour (dude you didn't need to kiss your brother on the mouth) that she exhibited in the past to well ... the respectable humanitarian persona she now has then, you'll see that sometimes sx/sp s evolve. Especially I think when they make better life choices and become more grounded (deeper focus on sp; sx/sp flows to sp/so); she's always been a pretty good actress but with time she picked better roles (or maybe she just got picked for them); she left behind a marriage that wasn't working out, it may have been passionate but I think she understood that staying in it was stagnating/purposeless. She pursued and held on to things she wanted (a child, being more actively involved in social matters). And she found a nice so/sx to be with. I know she gets flack for being a home wrecker or some shit but I didn't see the matter as so terrible. Also, I gotta say; compared to sx/sos, sx/sps generally give much less of a f**k about what people think about them regarding relationship issues. Girl had to hear a lot of mean things about herself after the Brad thing and she never looked like she cared *bosswoman* ; she was and sometimes is subjected to a lot of scrutiny. I've also seen her being typed as sx/so because over the years, she's become more socially involved regarding crises related to refugees and women's issues, however, references to her activeness in these matters always portray her as being quite subdued. Yes, she cares about these issues. Yes, she wants others to care about them as well but her humanitarian work is quieter, the way you'd expect a social last's work would be (read about sx/sp, Prince's generosity).

- Trent Reznor (5w4 8w9 4w3 sx/sp): Dude, got off booze and smack as the poster above me mentioned and he picked up something else that I think he must have found exciting and invigorating and he stuck with it: bodybuilding, lol. Trent has in the past and still does make really disturbing and dark art. However, at one point, instead of letting his sx passions drown him (trying to escape the general pain of existence through addictions; 'laziness'), at one point, bb made a solid choice to become sober so that he could be more present in his own life and thus give it more meaning. He wrote and released another album and some time during that period, he settled down with his wife (who also incidentally may be an so/sx). He later went on to make consistently good music in somewhat regular intervals (his scores for _The Girl with the Dragon Tatto_ and _Gone Girl_ were kickass); he later cancelled tours to stay home to be more present for his kids and wife. He has also had no reported drama for the last ... well, 10 years. I think his journey towards health began with making a damn good effort to be healthy in all aspects of his life (physically, emotionally; very sp). It's interesting that when announcing his engagement to his wife, he said, 'I know feel that I am in a place where I can finally be honest with another person' (paraphrased). I think he wanted more connections than he had had in his life (social) and I think he wanted to be better to the people around him. Dude did real work .

- Haruki Murakami can at times read as sx/sp to me: low drama, had a cool low profile job as a bar owner at one point, didn't care for the critics' harsh assessments, lives a solitary life with his wife, very dedicated to his passion (writing, sx).

- As for someone who didn't have a wife or kids  , Steve Wilson is an sx/sp INFJ, I believe; he has those intense eyes, lol. He is incredibly dedicated to his work and I think ... doesn't have many scandals  . Social lasts want to have at least one certain aspect of their lives to be completely private. He has made huge contributions to music.

- Aaand Gillian Anderson who's some kind of sx/sp. Does consistently good work, is a very hardworking actress who's almost always involved in projects and seems to be loving and dedicated to her kids. Seems like a sincere mother and truly, I hope that I never hear about her kids becoming druggies or worse, ahem.

A common thing with healthy sx/sp s , I believe is this. I read somewhere that growth flows upwards like so/sx flows to sx/sp or what have you (what a poor way to put it, lol) and that when one focuses on one's blind spot, that is usually when one grows the most. I think sx/sps are healthiest when they are making a good effort to positively contribute to society (charity begins at home; they may start being more involved in a positive way with more family members and friends) and when they're channeling their passions (sx) in a healthy, productive way (sp). And of course, when they understand to pursue excitement should never mean that one should ever harm oneself (they start giving more priority to sp, and thus in the process value so more; after all, your friends, family and colleagues can serve as a support, which is very, very necessary in times of distress). Thus, they go the syn flow route; sx/sp flows to sp/so  .


----------



## karmachameleon (Nov 1, 2015)

I guess sx firsts become "healthier" when they realize that relationships and romance/excitement cannot take over their life and start to balance things. I have yet to accept this.


----------



## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

I'll let you know when I find one. most of us are a bunch of hungry vampires :laughing:



Ventricity said:


> not really because the social instinct is inferior and used in relation to that fact. *an sx/so person is more romantic*, more adventurous and more forgiving about flaws. an sx/sp person will have a notebook of things that he hates about you, and he'll let you know it when angry.
> 
> this is sx/sp in normal relationship mode, watch him break out some repressed sp love around 4 min mark, enjoy:


the opposite. Sx/Sp is more romantic than Sx/So (Sp/Sx is often fairly romantic too). the energy of Sx/Sp is more single minded, concentrated, obsessed. Sx/So has a more diffused energy, more like a wildfire that wants to reach larger groups of people. Sx/So has the passion of a romantic, but not the subtlety or single minded focus (unless they're 9s, 5s or 3s, the Sx/So's I know are romantic buzzkills because they're too damn brash :laughing: ).


----------



## inabox (Oct 3, 2015)

Oooh, also I won't say that I am a healthy sx/sp but I am healthier now than I was in the past year. And well, I have been lurking around personalitycafe forums for aaaages (I became a member in October 2015) but I didn't start posting until April, this year. I think it was because I felt that I nothing important to contribute.

Now ... I'm trying to contribute positively (so) and I hope to engage with my fellow forum members in constructive discussions (also, so, lol).


----------



## inabox (Oct 3, 2015)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> I'll let you know when I find one. most of us are a bunch of hungry vampires :laughing:
> 
> 
> 
> the opposite. Sx/Sp is more romantic than Sx/So (Sp/Sx is often fairly romantic too). the energy of Sx/Sp is more single minded, concentrated, obsessed. Sx/So has a more diffused energy, more like a wildfire that wants to reach larger groups of people. Sx/So has the passion of a romantic, but not the subtlety or single minded focus (unless they're 9s, 5s or 3s, the Sx/So's I know are romantic buzzkills because they're too damn brash :laughing: ).


I think sx/sps can be/are generally more romantic. We're less forgiving though lol sorrynotsorry ^_^ .

Also, both my boyfriends have been sx/sos (one 3 and another 5), your comment about their brashness made me lol.


----------



## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

inabox said:


> *I think sx/sps can be/are generally more romantic. We're less forgiving though lol sorrynotsorry ^_^ *.
> 
> Also, both my boyfriends have been sx/sos (one 3 and another 5), your comment about their brashness made me lol.


werd! lmao


----------



## psyche (Jan 5, 2011)

I think maybe the nice thing is that it helps you empathize with somebody else... You already know what it's like to experience a lot of uncomfortable emotional intensity, and you can use the sp to channel that into focusing on and healing somebody who's going through something difficult themselves.

Obviously, though, it's easier to use the sp to turn the sx inward and experience the emotional intensity all over again, at worst becoming self destructive or sometimes more openly volatile, like a volcano.


----------



## Dangerose (Sep 30, 2014)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> Sp blindspot: lack of consistency, difficulty taking care of ones' self, lacking awareness of consequences


Curious, would you say that sp-first can be the same way? I feel like I read here and there that sp-first can be...the opposite of self-preserving, self-destructive. Still trying to get a handle on the instincts and telling the difference between sp-blindspot and, idk, counter-self-preservation sp-first, is there one or is counter-self-preservation sp-first not a thing?


----------



## karmachameleon (Nov 1, 2015)

@Phoenix Virtue

I think sp blindspot is: being naive, and childlike expectations in the area of money, not taking money seriously at all. Ive noticed sometimes they expect others to be very generous with their money because they dont think its a big thing. They can like money, and spending money though. Everyone does. Its just that their life doesnt revolve around money the way an sp firsts do. If their finance is going to shit they're not that worried about it, whereas an sp first would get depressed and anxious.

sp firsts see that money is important. They think life revolves around money and financial security, just like sx first think they're half of a person and life is only about finding a mate.
They can be self destrctive but it probably wouldnt be in the area of money. Unhealthy could trick and abuse others for money, hoarding money, things like that.


----------



## Dangerose (Sep 30, 2014)

karmachameleon said:


> @Phoenix Virtue
> 
> I think sp blindspot is: being naive, and childlike expectations in the area of money, not taking money seriously at all. Ive noticed sometimes they expect others to be very generous with their money because they dont think its a big thing. They can like money, and spending money though. Everyone does. Its just that their life doesnt revolve around money the way an sp firsts do. If their finance is going to shit they're not that worried about it, whereas an sp first would get depressed and anxious.
> 
> ...


Thanks!
sp-last definitely sounds like me, but most people on here have said I seem sp-first, which is sorta where my question came in.
Not about me but I want to hear this talked about more [in general, I mean], instincts remain confusing for me


----------



## karmachameleon (Nov 1, 2015)

Phoenix Virtue said:


> Thanks!
> sp-last definitely sounds like me, but most people on here have said I seem sp-first, which is sorta where my question came in.
> Not about me but I want to hear this talked about more [in general, I mean], instincts remain confusing for me


Yeah many people are confused about them haha.. I was confused until i talked to someone with tons of experience in enneagram. What have their reasoning been for typing you sp? If theyre just typing you on vibe its kind of useless through internet. Sp is a heavy, dark instinct, and so sp lasts are not.  if that makes sense.

Soc is light, sp lasts will think soc lasts are dark and weird usually. SX is like water and fire.. you have 2 imaginative types in your tritype so maybe you will understand what I mean, lol


----------



## sometimes (Dec 26, 2013)

karmachameleon said:


> @Phoenix Virtue
> 
> I think sp blindspot is: being naive, and childlike expectations in the area of money, not taking money seriously at all. Ive noticed sometimes they expect others to be very generous with their money because they dont think its a big thing. They can like money, and spending money though. Everyone does. Its just that their life doesnt revolve around money the way an sp firsts do. If their finance is going to shit they're not that worried about it, whereas an sp first would get depressed and anxious.
> 
> ...


I think life revolves around money and it is very important to me but I equally feel like half a person without a partner. I can also be reckless with money (but only generous with a SO not anyone else) but I also feel depressed when I run out which inevitably happens because I like to spend too much when I have it. What does that mean?


----------



## Dangerose (Sep 30, 2014)

karmachameleon said:


> Yeah many people are confused about them haha.. I was confused until i talked to someone with tons of experience in enneagram. What have their reasoning been for typing you sp? If theyre just typing you on vibe its kind of useless through internet. Sp is a heavy, dark instinct, and so sp lasts are not.  if that makes sense.
> 
> Soc is light, sp lasts will think soc lasts are dark and weird usually. SX is like water and fire.. you have 2 imaginative types in your tritype so maybe you will understand what I mean, lol


That does make sense)

Don't mean to make this about me, but I feel that 'heavy and dark' is the sort of thing that applies to me, about sp. As far as vibe typing goes my vibe might be something like this:


* *

















which sort of thing seems to be associated with sp for some reason, which I think is one reason why people tend to type me sp, as well as I think my tastes being somewhat subdued, and for instance struggling to eat properly is probably quite a large factor [I am quite plump and have a sweet tooth]

I am very bad with money but in the sense that I have a hole in my pocket, which I think could be sp? [I like things?] I really have trouble conceptualizing money, did as a child certainly but most children do...but even now, it has never felt quite real to me. So I can relate to this...I guess I can expect others to be generous with their money but not thinkingly, I also give away money easily, it is difficult for me to bring money to a place above just...the hoop you need to jump through to get something, I'm very aware of trying not to abuse others' resources however. 

I relate also to feeling like half a person, life revolving around life, but I'm a 2 and that pretty much comes with the territory.

I related to these points about sx/so



> - living like they're going to die tomorrow


 - but not in a 'dangerous stunts' way, just in the sense that I don't see consequences, never 'save for the future', the moment I want something, I want it now


> - trouble maintaining a consistent, sustainable lifestyle


 -This is -definitely- true, I don't know if it is something I am capable of


> - breaking things when angry


 -so many things :laughing: so many expensive things 

So I don't mean to derail the thread but that's about where I am with the instincts


----------



## karmachameleon (Nov 1, 2015)

Phoenix Virtue said:


> That does make sense)
> 
> Don't mean to make this about me, but I feel that 'heavy and dark' is the sort of thing that applies to me, about sp. As far as vibe typing goes my vibe might be something like this:
> 
> ...


Im in my phone now so its gonna be a short response, feeling like you csnt maintain a consistent sustainable lifstyle does not sound sp first, more sx. The picture im not sure but looks like maybe 4 fix, just a guess. 
Do you know about synflow/contraflow? Ill get back to you later


----------



## Dangerose (Sep 30, 2014)

karmachameleon said:


> Im in my phone now so its gonna be a short response, feeling like you csnt maintain a consistent sustainable lifstyle does not sound sp first, more sx. The picture im not sure but looks like maybe 4 fix, just a guess.
> Do you know about synflow/contraflow? Ill get back to you later


Oh, no worries, I was really just thinking out loud) Thanks)
I'm familiar with the concept; don't know which applies to me though)


----------



## Dora (Apr 25, 2016)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> well it's true :tongue:
> if they have strong Fi and/or a 4 fix, it's even more true


Oh fuck! I am stong Fi and a 4 fix (ESFP 4w3) and SX/sp. Does that mean I'm screwed?



> Can anyone think of any examples or descriptions of a healthy Sx/Sp?


 @TheScorchedEarth I'm a SX/sp and my doctor says I'm fine:wink:


----------



## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Phoenix Virtue said:


> Curious, would you say that sp-first can be the same way? I feel like I read here and there that sp-first can be...the opposite of self-preserving, self-destructive. Still trying to get a handle on the instincts and telling the difference between sp-blindspot and, idk, counter-self-preservation sp-first, is there one or is counter-self-preservation sp-first not a thing?


when they're in an unhealthy kick, yes, Sp-firsts can be like this, but Sp-lasts are like this even in the average levels of health.


----------



## Chesire Tower (Jan 19, 2013)

SX/SP 5w4 INFJ


----------



## Rose for a Heart (Nov 14, 2011)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> I beg to differ. that's what the hot/cold issue is. Sx is moody and feisty, but Sp tempers it and pulls it back a bit. Sx/Sos' personalities remind me of explosions. (Sp contains the intensity; So scatters it). Sp in general is the most consistent and stabilizing of the instincts


"Explosions" is true lol. Imo I haven't met that many Sx-first irl. Sx/so seem like powerful magnets and really unstable, even if healthy. Sx/sp has that "piercing" gaze thing they do and a stabilizing influence (for me - I'm so/sx).



Swordsman of Mana said:


> Sp blindspot: lack of consistency, difficulty taking care of ones' self, lacking awareness of consequences ​



elaborate please​


----------



## inabox (Oct 3, 2015)

@Rose for a Heart ; I'm sx/sp, I'm curious, how do you find us stabilizing? Could you elaborate on your experiences with sx/sps  ?


----------



## Rose for a Heart (Nov 14, 2011)

inabox said:


> @*Rose for a Heart* ; I'm sx/sp, I'm curious, how do you find us stabilizing? Could you elaborate on your experiences with sx/sps  ?


I feel like they can take my intensity yet ground me at the same time.


----------



## inabox (Oct 3, 2015)

Rose for a Heart said:


> I feel like they can take my intensity yet ground me at the same time.


How does sx/sp ground so/sx in your experience?


----------



## cinnabun (Apr 11, 2011)

Me. Bow down peasants, I have arrived. Quick, gather round and I'll let you observe me (for science)roud:!


----------



## Dora (Apr 25, 2016)

Rinnie said:


> Me. Bow down peasants, I have arrived. Quick, gather round and I'll let you observe me (for science)roud:!


All hail, you have finally arrived!


----------



## Neokortex (May 22, 2015)

Memestar said:


> Me. Bow down peasants, I have arrived. Quick, gather round and I'll let you observe me (for science)roud:!


Miniblini? What you wrote about your connection to your partner doesn't really fall under self-reliance or Sx-dom assertiveness. I doubt you are one, if at all.



Ventricity said:


> not really because the social instinct is inferior and used in relation to that fact. an sx/so person is more romantic, more adventurous and more forgiving about flaws. an sx/sp person will have a notebook of things that he hates about you, and he'll let you know it when angry.
> 
> this is sx/sp in normal relationship mode, watch him break out some repressed sp love around 4 min mark, enjoy:


I can relate to the notebook thing. It's as if Sp had something to do with Si. I'm tied btw Sp first and secondary. My thinking process, as I have strong E6 is more Sp/Sx oriented, kinda like being a covert detective. And as an Enneagram 6 I do take note people, such as Miniblini up there having had changed her alias and picture to avoid me on the forums. So people are much more frequent with changing masks, aliases, self-representations. The strongest you can see this is with the So/Sx-es. You can feel the lightness with which they change their facade. They're not grounded as much, whereas Sx/Sp in the quoted movie, is uncompromising, aware of himself (Sp) and penetrating the other (Sx). Being brutally honest as the priest guy is. Funny how priests can turn into Byronic heroes.



Swordsman of Mana said:


> you're confusing _conflicted_ with screwed up.
> imo, Sx/So is clearly the most screwed up variant (I won't go into all the crazy shit they're prone to). all that charisma comes at a cost.
> 
> 
> ...


What?? I'm only warm when I'm in the E6 (community oriented, host) mode, but Sx/Sp as an abstract pattern is more like hazarding something wild and then retreat. It rather creates shock (by being non-smooth, uncompromising) than warmth. Relaxed and tranquil?? Rather jittery, energized, reckless... I'm thinking more along 6 and 7 extroverted types; I don't know about Sx/Sp 5s, I don't think they exist. I think I saw Sx/Sp 4, a person very daring to express himself emotionally, honestly, without social compromise but even that looked more extrovert to me based on the energy he put out. Sx/Sps are more outgoing for sure but then we also get disgusted by the "drivel" and "idiotic senselessness," complicity in compromise of a society of masquerade like what the priest talks about in the quoted film. I have a certain comfort in social situations but that's fake, that's actually holding myself back to be accepted in. I was more clumsy than I learned gradually. I don't know if it's healthy or not but Sx/Sps by definition have an So blind spot which will always cause "elefant in a china vase store" kinda awkward and uncomfortable moments. We are not emo but only serious. Among the stars listed, I believe only Joan Collins has some Sx/Sp qualities. But I guess that's only daring that comes with age. The others no, whatsoever. You sure you're one?


----------



## cinnabun (Apr 11, 2011)

Neokortex said:


> Miniblini? What you wrote about your connection to your partner doesn't really fall under self-reliance or Sx-dom assertiveness. I doubt you are one, if at all.


Not very SP, sure. Not understanding how it's not SX, though.


----------



## Neokortex (May 22, 2015)

Memestar said:


> Not very SP, sure. Not understanding how it's not SX, though.


Pends on if you believe Sx 9s exist or not. 9 is a gut type in itself so dissociating from trouble by eating yummy stuff and having goody sex at home, I guess, can be a strategy for all the 9s. On one hand, the assumption that being the "intimate subtype," it makes problematic to keep boundaries. On the other hand, the claim that Sx 9s are less assertive may be logically true but it is against what Sx stands for, in behavior, when it comes to other Sx types. Like, 4's an introverted type, Sx 4 is more assertive, more outgoing. I don't have much experience with 9s so I can only speculate. Try to compare Beatrice Chestnut's take with Oceanmoonshine's take of 9s. May think of So/Sx 9 tempered by other introverted Enneagrams.


----------



## cinnabun (Apr 11, 2011)

Neokortex said:


> Pends on if you believe Sx 9s exist or not. 9 is a gut type in itself so dissociating from trouble by eating yummy stuff and having goody sex at home, I guess, can be a strategy for all the 9s. On one hand, the assumption that being the "intimate subtype," it makes problematic to keep boundaries. On the other hand, the claim that Sx 9s are less assertive may be logically true but it is against what Sx stands for, in behavior, when it comes to other Sx types. Like, 4's an introverted type, Sx 4 is more assertive, more outgoing. I don't have much experience with 9s so I can only speculate. Try to compare Beatrice Chestnut's take with Oceanmoonshine's take of 9s. May think of So/Sx 9 tempered by other introverted Enneagrams.


Oookay....I never claimed to be a 9 though so not sure what you're talking about.


----------



## Neokortex (May 22, 2015)

Memestar said:


> Oookay....I never claimed to be a 9 though so not sure what you're talking about.


I think I remember you indicating 9 in your sidebar before you turned into "Memestar."


----------



## cinnabun (Apr 11, 2011)

Neokortex said:


> I think I remember you indicating 9 in your sidebar before you turned into "Memestar."


I have a 9 fix, i'm a core 7 though.


----------



## Skeletalz (Feb 21, 2015)

karmachameleon said:


> sp firsts see that money is important. They think life revolves around money and financial security, *just like sx first think they're half of a person and life is only about finding a mate*.
> They can be self destrctive but it probably wouldnt be in the area of money. Unhealthy could trick and abuse others for money, hoarding money, things like that.


lmfao :laughing: truu


----------



## Neokortex (May 22, 2015)

Memestar said:


> I have a 9 fix, i'm a core 7 though.


What's a 'fix'? Aren't all Enneagrams fixes in one way or another? If your 7 had Sx then doesn't that mean you'd be flakey/promiscuous when it comes to relationships?


----------

