# anyone know any ways to cope with involuntary celibacy



## yello (Oct 14, 2011)

JoetheBull said:


> Yeah I am over weight but have been losing weight very recently. I prefer to get scars on my face from actual sword fights instead of plastic surgery. I could use some Vulcan ears or even change myself into a Klingon(don't really relate to them much though) . I was never abused. Nerds and plastic surgery don't mix lol. Sorry can't take plastic surgery seriously.


If you are still incel after you get your body fat percentage down, then there is not much you can do. If you really don't believe that plastic surgery can help you, try getting someone to photoshop you a new jaw and chin and use the same profile you already have, and see if you get any more messages. Or you can just accept the fact that you will be incel for the rest of your life and just find ways to kill your sex drive.

Have you ever tried a prostitute? If not you should get a girlfriend experience, it might make you feel a little better about paying for sex, because it's essentially just a date that you pay for with sex after.


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## JoetheBull (Apr 29, 2010)

Arclight said:


> Stop caring.. If you care it will not come. Once you accept that you will never have sex.. I mean _truly_ accept it, the world's perception of you will change and sex will be granted unto you.
> Sex is a not something one should ever over think.. The whole thing happens on a level the conscious mind barely touches so thinking just messes up the natural flow of things.
> Not caring is the difference between confidence and desperation. We all have heard about how these 2 qualities _are_ the whole game and it's a universal truth that ignores gender, culture and era.. It's simply the undeniable nature of the beast.


I actually have been trying to accept that I'll never have sex. It's not easy. I am even trying to get myself to learn piano again and try to focus on that in hopes of distracting myself from my natural needs for sex. Not sure how good of an idea that is but it has a better chance then warcraft, other video games, and anime.


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## Paradox1987 (Oct 9, 2010)

yello said:


> Being boring and socially awkward don't have anything to do with being incel. A lot of people will say you need to work on yourself and tell you to seek therapy, don't listen to them. Sure go get therapy if it will make you feel better, but you will still be incel.
> 
> Also if you were abused, stressed, or didn't have enough to eat as a child plastic surgery can drastically improve your looks. If you don't have the money right now just save up for it.
> 
> Are you overweight? If you are you need to lose weight. Do you eat enough fruit and vegetables?


Ah yes, the old panacea eh? Question. If post therapy you are still incel, care to explain how plastic surgery will magically change that? Are you hoping the surgeon will screw you during and after the process? No offence, but some of this "logic" is dangerous to peddle to people you know.


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## android654 (Jan 19, 2010)

Paradox1987 said:


> Ah yes, the old panacea eh? Question. If post therapy you are still incel, care to explain how plastic surgery will magically change that? Are you hoping the surgeon will screw you during and after the process? No offence, but some of this "logic" is dangerous to peddle to people you know.


I'd leave him alone. He's regurgitated these things before in the same pattern and it's rather sad, but I feel bad for him so I stopped questioning him about it. Just let him feel like he's got this figured out.


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## Sai (Sep 3, 2012)

@JoetheBull have you ever tried stoned? weed is very good for depression and it gets you horny sometimes.


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## JoetheBull (Apr 29, 2010)

Sai said:


> @_JoetheBull_ have you ever tried stoned? weed is very good for depression and it gets you horny sometimes.


yeah I have. it caused me extreme amounts of chest pains and the urge to brutally murder the person who wouldn't shut up until I smoked some. Obviously it doesn't affect me the same way it does normal people. Last thing I need is to be more horny though. I get horny with out the need for drugs or alcohol.


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## Emerson (Mar 13, 2011)

This:

1: Go out.
2: Get sloshy.
3: Get woman.
4: Take woman.
5: Booyah.


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

@ first I thought you might be a woman and then I might suggest 50 shades of grey :tongue: 
Joking! I always use that for a joke and haven't read it yet >.<

Taking this into consideration (not relating with much else of it) Incel experience differs from more typically inconsistent intimacy opportunities in that chances for sexual activity other than masturbation—physical intimacy, cuddling, kissing, and romantic connection—are perpetually rare or nonexistent. This is my suggestion (what I do):

I think I am constantly reminding myself that one day that will happen again (all that stuff you miss or want) and that it just might not be now. I think people (myself) can be impatient and tend to get negative thoughts like _"I'll never"_ (which is simply untrue). So while it may not be now (or for awhile) this doesn't mean it won't happen eventually. Note: For me, I am tending to school and other priorities in my life, I'm introverted and those are the reasons for my situation. I am not sure what your reasons are. But I am assuming, like my own reasons, yours are temporary as well ... _It's not that things we want won't happen, it's that they won't happen now. and that's okay._

The other thing I do is allow myself to have fun with the opposite sex by flirting, engaging in intellectually stimulating conversations (because for me, attraction has a lot to do with mind. I get some people aren't like that which is okay. so if you aren't, maybe figure out a way of getting the energy exchange that suits your "type" of attraction that you are missing). 

I focus on the positive things, the things I do have that bring me happiness. As far as depression - it's a mindset (IMO) and not a feeling. So when I'm sad, I allow myself to be sad, let it wash over me and it's gone ... I write prose, short stories, aphorisms (well I try ) and just started journaling again. Not sure if you are much of a writer, but writing is cathartic. A long time ago when I was young and sad to the point of depression, I started writing lists a lot. Things that make me smile (cheesy jokes) or Things that I love (the smell of rain) ... just completely obscure ridiculous lists (thoughts) ... maybe the introvert thinking helps with coming up with this stuff. Not sure what type you are but give it a go 

Maybe just look at everyone's suggestions and try to cherry pick the ideas you like and then morph them (alter them just so) they work for just you ... * Bows in respect for your (temporary situation) _Choice_ *


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## JoetheBull (Apr 29, 2010)

Tea Path said:


> After reading that, I feel for you. Have you pursued avenues to discuss your inability, such as counseling?


I have considered going to counseling but the last 3 psychologist where very bad. Been thinking about trying one more time but not sure if there is anyone out there that can help with this type of thing. There is also the fear of them locking me up in a sanitarium and never letting me out.


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## JoetheBull (Apr 29, 2010)

Ningsta Kitty said:


> @ first I thought you might be a woman and then I might suggest 50 shades of grey :tongue:
> Joking! I always use that for a joke and haven't read it yet >.<
> 
> Taking this into consideration (not relating with much else of it) Incel experience differs from more typically inconsistent intimacy opportunities in that chances for sexual activity other than masturbation—physical intimacy, cuddling, kissing, and romantic connection—are perpetually rare or nonexistent. This is my suggestion (what I do):
> ...


Unfortunately can't view it as temporary since this has been an unbroken permanent situation. Also don't know how to flirt.


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

JoetheBull said:


> Unfortunately can't view it as temporary since this has been an unbroken permanent situation. Also don't know how to flirt.


If you can learn how to swim from google, you can learn how to flirt  (if you really wanted to learn it)

and 2, I have no idea what "unbroken permanent" means. You have been fairly ambiguous. 

My suggestion is that you (or if you are young, urge your parents to consider) Gestalt metholodies. 

I have never seen a therapist myself but have read a lot of books on this type of philospophy.

Gestalt therapy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Gestalt psychology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Amazon.com: gestalt: Books

p.s.

seriously curious what "unbroken permanent" means ...

Oh. and P.S.S.
I also am a fan of behaviorism as I practiced ABA in one of my previous lives. It IS okay to combine different approaches (philosphies) you learn to apply into your life. *salutes* best of luck mate! 

you're on your own kid


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## Mary Jane (Oct 11, 2011)

Hey JoetheBull,

I guess this is a serious subject? I don't know about the guys suggesting you should visit prostitutes or consider plastic surgery, I don't think it's funny at all... 

It sounds like you are depressed and have a low self esteem. Maybe you can do something about that. You are focusing on sex now, but you can have a lot of sex and still feel miserable and alone. Maybe you want to be liked/loved/cared for etc, find someone you really like? Try to work things out with a psychologist you can trust.

For me, as a woman, I wouldn't prefer to have sex with someone who is so obsessed by getting sex. I try to be honest here, but sex is about giving something too and sharing, and you are all about getting it. A woman can feel that. And most women don't want to be used for that. So, what's in it for her?! As long as you are too focused on yourself, it will be hard to find a girl. I suggest you try to do something about that first. 

You talk about going to bars and night clubs, but if you're not comfortable there, you'll probably won't meet someone there. Why would you like to pick up a woman in a bar?! You only need one girlfriend , maybe you can find someone in a place you feel comfortable. I don't know what you like, you could volenteer at the local animal shelter and meet someone there. Or join a sports club. Or go to a comic con. Whatever you like! 

I wish you the best. 

Mary Jane


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## JoetheBull (Apr 29, 2010)

Ningsta Kitty said:


> I have no idea what "unbroken permanent" means. You have been fairly ambiguous.


My fault on this one. Despite English being my native language I suck at it. Languages in general I have trouble with. 

What I was trying to say was I have never been in a relationship or dated. There is nothing I miss since I have never had. And possibly never will know. That is probably what irritates me. I don't even know anymore. Not even sure....
never mind that.

Also please don't call me kid I'm 30. I can deal with being called old man since I will probably be going gray soon.


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## JoetheBull (Apr 29, 2010)

Kind of think we are getting nowhere on this possibly due to my inability to word or state anything correctly due to faulty brain wiring.

I need to either suppress the need for sex or some how deal with living with my biological needs never being satisfied but still able to function clearly without it's interference(through curiosity or sex drive being in over drive) in my life so I can focus on something more positive and productive. 

Like self improvement, getting better at repairing computers, learning to program, get better at video games and actually become useful in World of warcraft to my guild(I am just wasted space technically), getting better at drawing, do yoga, lose weight, eventually get a real job so I can move out of my parents house and go into isolation after some traveling, actually play portal(i know pathetic that I still haven't played this), and maybe finally learn calculus and stop being so damn useless for once.

Instead of wasting another 10 or more years trying to figure out dating, sex, and love which others figure out so easily and my curiosity, instincts, or sub conscious won't stop obsessing about when I know the answer to the problem and the only chance I have is to leave it be because I have absolutely nothing to offer since I am not smart enough, not alien enough, and gosh darn it nobody likes me. 

Sorry for that rant. I hope it might clear some thing up. If not I am open to inquires. I think I need some cake. Or bed.


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## SublimeSerendipity (Dec 30, 2010)

JoetheBull said:


> My fault on this one. Despite English being my native language I suck at it. Languages in general I have trouble with.
> 
> What I was trying to say was I have never been in a relationship or dated. There is nothing I miss since I have never had. And possibly never will know. That is probably what irritates me. I don't even know anymore. Not even sure....
> never mind that.
> ...


I think saying "kid" what a figure of speech, we're not trying to infantile you.

Okay....so you've never had a relationship or dated. So what! We all have to start somewhere!! 

I think you need to get past the notion that there is something WRONG with you. Perhaps there is something wrong, but I think it has more to do with some sort of internal anxiety - it's definitely not because you have not dated before. 

I strongly suggest finding a counselor/psychologist whom you can build trust in to help you. Many will meet with you once or twice to see if there is a "fit"....this is a sign of a good therapist. They understand that there needs to be a connection between the therapist and patient, and that they can actually help you. Otherwise they're just taking your money. 

It seems to me that your problem is not sex, or lack of sex, but rather self-esteem/confidence and social skills. These things can be learned. If you focus solely on the sex, you won't ever get it. You need to focus on overcoming the obstacles that are blocking your ability to connect with others. 

Just doing online dating is probably exacerbating your anxieties, because the intention is to date. If you do things you enjoy, and find girls through those activities, develop friendships with boy guys and girls. It's going to take practice. It's going to take stepping out of your comfort zone. But you can get through this. You don't have to be socially inept for the rest of your life. 

It breaks my heart that you focus so much on the sex - because it's obvious to me that what you really crave/want/need is connections to others. And until you can find those you will not feel better, you will not get past this. 

Going to prostitutes is not going to solve your problem. It's not natural. Your fear is likely not the actual sexual act...it can be for victims of rape or sexual abuse. Paying someone for sex is not going to create a connection. It's not going to help you get through this. Getting plastic surgery, as I've already ridiculed the poster of that suggestion, is definitely not the solution. You crave a connection but at the same time you fear connections with others. I have a feeling that at least sometime in your life there has been a girl who has at least liked you, but you probably didn't notice her. And you ignored her and she left. It has nothing to do with your looks or who you are as a person. It has to do with the fact that you have so little self-worth and confidence and social skills, that human interaction, evaluation, and judgement is just too painful. But you CAN overcome this. 

Remember, "You can't love another until you love yourself." Focus on learning to love yourself, accept yourself for who you are, but gain the skills to help you maneuver the social landscape.

EDIT:



> Like self improvement, getting better at repairing computers, learning to program, get better at video games and actually become useful in World of warcraft to my guild(I am just wasted space technically), getting better at drawing, do yoga, lose weight, eventually get a real job so I can move out of my parents house and go into isolation after some traveling, actually play portal(i know pathetic that I still haven't played this), and maybe finally learn calculus and stop being so damn useless for once.


You listed a lot of reclusive activities that will only push you farther and farther away from others. 

How about you focus on the first thing...self improvement....but in the direction of learning some social skills. If you want to learn yoga or drawing, how about taking a class? You might meet some really cool people. Or join a walking group (or insert favorite physical activity here) to lose weight and make friends. Meetup.com is a great site to find groups of people. Heck, you might even find a group of people that like video games and want to play together IRL - so not only do you get to do something you enjoy but you get the added bonus of human interaction! What about chess? 

You want a real job....the bane of our generation. If you had a job and moved out of your parents house I guarantee you would feel emotionally better. The idea that we Gen Y's have to go back to mommy and daddy after college, can be devastating to our self-esteem. I had to do it. So put more energy into that. Workplaces are a great place to learn to interact with others.


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## militaryinteldoesntequate (Jul 30, 2010)

I'm guessing you've tried the group/wing man approach by now? You don't have to go to a bar to hook up, people do meet their significant others at bars sometimes. 
Heck, just upgrade your nightlife approach too. Ditch the hole in the wall bars if that's your preference and go for something a little classier where you can meet people who are to your intellectual requirements. If there are any decent piano bars or anything else a bit more upscale you can go for the cultured approach. 
I really don't believe that people are really going to be incredibly judgmental of you just because of your lack of flirting ability or dating/relationship, my significant other has more dating and relationship experience than I have to show. I've dated maybe 5 or 6 women, sex with 2 of them and was in a relationship for no more than 2 months that was over 18 months ago. I'm not as old as you but I know the self doubt, feelings of isolation, doubting yourself especially for a lack of social skills. There is hope, there's always hope.


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## Joseph (Jun 20, 2012)

What are your hobbies? What do you like to do? 

Do you feel like you are growing or improving your life right now?


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

JoetheBull said:


> My fault on this one. Despite English being my native language I suck at it. Languages in general I have trouble with.
> 
> What I was trying to say was I have never been in a relationship or dated. There is nothing I miss since I have never had. And possibly never will know. That is probably what irritates me. I don't even know anymore. Not even sure....
> never mind that.
> ...


I'm sorry. It so was a figure of speech. I get called Kiddo all the time by men my age and I'm 32!

About never being in a relationship or never dating ... that is temporary. So don't worry so much. 
This is a time you look to your brofriends  

ummm ... hoping you have NICE brofriends. Try not to take the douchie guy's advice 

You'll be fine. All good things come to those who ... work. 

And again, I didn't mean to offend you or anything.


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## JoetheBull (Apr 29, 2010)

Joseph said:


> What are your hobbies? What do you like to do?
> 
> Do you feel like you are growing or improving your life right now?


video games, anime/cartoons, building computers, robots, comics/graphic novels, swords, martial arts, evolution, mmorpgs, philosophy, drawing, used to make AMVs, history, used to teach myself piano but we had to get rid of our baby grand piano(currently working on getting a digital piano), writing(despite my lack of language skills), learning Italian and Japanese, and long walks by myself to think about random ideas, projects, problems, or anything else on my mind. forgot to mention watching certain abridging/parody videos on youtube.

I kind of feel like I hit a wall in life. Then that wall fell on top of me and blew up hurdling back past where I began. Don't mean to be negative. I just thought it would be funnier to describe my current set back in such a way. Humor is the only coping mechanism I have that helps in any way.



Ningsta Kitty said:


> I'm sorry. It so was a figure of speech. I get called Kiddo all the time by men my age and I'm 32!
> 
> About never being in a relationship or never dating ... that is temporary. So don't worry so much.
> This is a time you look to your brofriends
> ...


No offense taken. I was tired and gotten off work earlier. Combined with some frustration and unwelcomed annoying emotions but me in a rather much less then ideal state of mind. I apologies. I thought you literally thought I was very young. 

My brofriends are not people I would turn to. The one bust my chops so I am kind of afraid to do or say things around him, also he is a bit bossy, also has trouble with women except when used to party and drink a lot which was annoying to me because I had to drive a half hour to pick him up drop him off at his place, and a half hour back. Thank God he quit drinking. My other friend who I can relate to more also has trouble with women but has at least had one girlfriend. But he admits he has no idea what he is doing either. 

Whenever we rarely went to a bar together they are usually asking me what I think we should do, advice, or what my assessment of the situation is. And when they do decide to try to go talk to a small group of girls I am ready to go but they are the ones who back down or say they require being more drunk. Strange how they think the on in the group that is the least experience with no success some how has the answer. 

If anything they sometimes just make things confusing. But they have been my friends since grade school despite being considered the out of place strange one.


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## Kyandigaru (Mar 11, 2012)

I don't really have a fear of sex, I just "don't" have it...LOL
I never heard of this involuntary celibacy...Now I have an excuse for men i'n not sexually attracted to...


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## Joseph (Jun 20, 2012)

JoetheBull said:


> video games, anime/cartoons, building computers, robots, comics/graphic novels, swords, martial arts, evolution, mmorpgs, philosophy, drawing, used to make AMVs, history, used to teach myself piano but we had to get rid of our baby grand piano(currently working on getting a digital piano), writing(despite my lack of language skills), learning Italian and Japanese, and long walks by myself to think about random ideas, projects, problems, or anything else on my mind. forgot to mention watching certain abridging/parody videos on youtube.
> 
> I kind of feel like I hit a wall in life. Then that wall fell on top of me and blew up hurdling back past where I began. Don't mean to be negative. I just thought it would be funnier to describe my current set back in such a way. Humor is the only coping mechanism I have that helps in any way.


I understand what you mean, I believe these type of things happen when you are no longer making progress in your hobbies, discovering new things, and developing yourself more as a person. 

If I had your hobbies, I would look up how to get even better at whatever your martial arts are, and maybe pick up a really physical one like jujitsu /muay thai.


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## yello (Oct 14, 2011)

Paradox1987 said:


> Ah yes, the old panacea eh? Question. If post therapy you are still incel, care to explain how plastic surgery will magically change that? Are you hoping the surgeon will screw you during and after the process? No offence, but some of this "logic" is dangerous to peddle to people you know.


Plastic surgery won't work for some people. Most people just end up looking different. If you had a stressful childhood or did not get enough to eat you would be underdeveloped and plastic surgery could help you.

An implant and a nose job can make a huge difference.

For example if this guy got an implant he would no longer be incel.










Some people will always be ugly even with plastic surgery.


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## JoetheBull (Apr 29, 2010)

Kyandigaru said:


> I don't really have a fear of sex, I just "don't" have it...LOL
> I never heard of this involuntary celibacy...Now I have an excuse for men i'n not sexually attracted to...


most likely won't work. Those who know what it means will insist that they are your cure and the ones who have fetishes for virgins will get extra excited think the chance of you being one is greatly higher. Might work on some who will most likely be confused by it.

Also involuntary celibacy is when you want and/or open to having sex but can't because no one wants to with you or your physically disabled and unable to. My case is no one except some strippers(100% sure they are lying) are remotely interested. Even had a prostitute refuse to once. That was pathetic and funny thinking back to that.


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## JoetheBull (Apr 29, 2010)

yello said:


> Some people will always be ugly even with plastic surgery.


and here is a good example of one of those people


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## Mary Jane (Oct 11, 2011)

Please ignore yello, he is cleary trolling or trying to bully you... 

You look fine, you're face looks good (symmetric, nice blue eyes). Your looks are absolutely not the reason that you don't have a girlfriend. You could consider a shave, because I think your beard/moustache makes you look older than you are. Smiling helps, too.. 

Wish you a good weekend!

Mary Jane


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## JoetheBull (Apr 29, 2010)

Mary Jane said:


> Please ignore yello, he is cleary trolling or trying to bully you...
> 
> You look fine, you're face looks good (symmetric, nice blue eyes). Your looks are absolutely not the reason that you don't have a girlfriend. You could consider a shave, because I think your beard/moustache makes you look older than you are. Smiling helps, too..
> 
> ...


Yeah I am trying to troll his trolling.

My eyes are actually green but in certain lighting and distance they look blue. I have thought about shaving some times but I always end up looking very young. Smile part is usually difficult. It feels and looks kind of weird sometimes. But I'll try. It's harder to do in deep thought though. I think I instinctively look angry to avoid being interrupted lol. Thank you for the compliments and also have a good weekend.


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

JoetheBull said:


> and here is a good example of one of those people


 I don't know if Yello was intentionally trolling or not. 
But the picture you posted (which may or may not be you) is not an ugly man IMO. 


yello said:


> Some people will always be ugly even with plastic surgery.


 in a female perspective I agree with this quote. Because I have met many attractive people who are just ugly (personalities) people. I think this is what Yello's comment was about, although I could be wrong.

OP, the picture you posted was of a man who needs to get in shape and isn't ugly (physically) so understand that sometimes people waste time making excuses because it's an emotionally charged issue. I've made many excuses (mistakes) in life so I am not exempt and really really hope you are not upset with me for being so blunt. But honestly, I did not think that man was unattractive at all! 

Also, there are books out there you can read, you don't need to go to your brofriends. Not all those books are awful, (manipulating women just so they sleep with you) There ARE books out there on relationship dynamics and attraction etc. Much of which is based on evolutionary psychology. Just because a book has one portion that turns you off, doesn't mean that another portion of it could not be valuable. Try to be flexible with information you learn. 

Also, consider that sometimes people self sabotage themselves for different reasons but they will never be excuses. Again, I am not exempt from my fair share of human retardation. And if you feel this is not your case, then I hope you know I had good intentions for saying what others might not. I suppose I'd rather receive the words I need to hear opposed to the words I want to hear (and while this may be a foolish notion, I tend to assume other people would appreciate the same).

There are so many women out there. And you deserve happy companionship. The behaviorist in me will end reminding you that essentially, what we do or don't do; communicates what we do or don't want. Best Wishes  
I hope you're not upset with me or anything


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## JoetheBull (Apr 29, 2010)

Ningsta Kitty said:


> I hope you're not upset with me or anything


Not at all. And that was me in the pics. My face actually used to look fatter but I lost about 12 or more pounds so far. Still working on getting in shape part. Finally got myself to work out today after about a week of a more intense depression episode. Think it finally went back down to minor/normal levels. Easier to deal with and control despite continuing problems and lingering negative thoughts. I do tend to self sabotage myself a lot. Thank you for all your help.


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## yello (Oct 14, 2011)

JoetheBull said:


> and here is a good example of one of those people


You just need to lose some weight. It will make a huge difference. You are actually lucky because there are skinny incel people out there.

Also this is going to sound really sexist, but don't listen to women, they will not tell you the truth. 

If you lose weight an are still incel, take another photo of yourself and I will make a realistic photoshop of what you could expect from an implant.


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## WeetBixKid (Mar 6, 2011)

In order for (casual) sex to happen, you have to genuinely want it - to crave it. I'm sure you want it, but your want is based on imagination, on an ideal. On what you _imagine_ sex will be like. Those that are sexually experienced are going off more primal urges - they _know_ (not think) that sex will be an extremely pleasurable experience. It's not the same thing. 

When you know, it causes you to seek sex in a really primal sort of way. Especially when alcohol is involved, the drive cancels out the anxiety/fear of rejection/self doubt etc etc that society has imposed on us, and would otherwise be there. You go for it, you take chances because there is a big pay off. If you haven't experienced that pay off, I think you're less likely to take the chances nessecary to succeed.

As such, I think you need to bite the bullet and see a prostitute - or better yet a hands on sexual therapist so you can learn to enjoy yourself sexually with another person, get a proper taste and craving for it. I think things will come easier for you then.


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## JoetheBull (Apr 29, 2010)

WeetBixKid said:


> In order for (casual) sex to happen, you have to genuinely want it - to crave it. I'm sure you want it, but your want is based on imagination, on an ideal. On what you _imagine_ sex will be like. Those that are sexually experienced are going off more primal urges - they _know_ (not think) that sex will be an extremely pleasurable experience. It's not the same thing.
> 
> When you know, it causes you to seek sex in a really primal sort of way. Especially when alcohol is involved, the drive cancels out the anxiety/fear of rejection/self doubt etc etc that society has imposed on us, and would otherwise be there. You go for it, you take chances because there is a big pay off. If you haven't experienced that pay off, I think you're less likely to take the chances nessecary to succeed.
> 
> As such, I think you need to bite the bullet and see a prostitute - or better yet a hands on sexual therapist so you can learn to enjoy yourself sexually with another person, get a proper taste and craving for it. I think things will come easier for you then.


Don't need to bite bullet to see a prostitute since I have done it before and regretted and didn't enjoy any experience of it. My imagined sex is basically based on data I have gathered from other humans, tv, movies, porn, anime, and god who knows what else. I already know I don't know what to expect sex to be like. And I will not drink alcohol. Can't understand how normal people drink so much of it. Or why they eat pie or tofu but that has nothing to do with this. Plus have been buzzed/maybe drunk off sake before and self doubt along with depression and thoughts of suicide was still there. In fact they seemed to be the center of attention in my mind. 

Hands on sexual therapist I don't think exist around my area.


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## Cetanu (Jan 20, 2012)

warning: I might be obnoxious in this post.

Couldn't you just turn your involuntary celibacy into a voluntary celibacy thus making it your own decision and gaining your power back?

I cannot remember the last time I had sex. Not because it was a long time ago - because it doesn't even register in my mind as something important.

Is it? Apparently it's healthy to have sex. Does everyone here have sex twice a week on a schedule or something?

I have a question: How many women have you asked out on dates?

I have a challenge: Ask 100 women out on a date. Do you accept?


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## JoetheBull (Apr 29, 2010)

Cetanu said:


> warning: I might be obnoxious in this post.
> 
> Couldn't you just turn your involuntary celibacy into a voluntary celibacy thus making it your own decision and gaining your power back?
> 
> ...


I have considered it. But that will not quell my curiosity and the need to know if it is important to me. Also sex drive won't let that happen either. Also would like to experience being in a relationship at least once in my life. Plus avoid ending up like my uncle is a strong motivator.

How many women have I asked out? Don't know. Only things I have been able to do recently is work, sleep, cook, laundry, workout, and if I am lucky get one game of League of legends going. All girls I meet have boyfriends, husbands, or girlfriends. Miss High school meeting women was easier even if they wanted nothing to do with me(except as a joke). Philly and my town sucks.

I do not accept. I have banned myself from dating world(despite never being in it) until I am below 190 lbs. 

Hence reason why I am trying to find ways of coping with not having sex or dating instead on fixing the problem. Because the problem is interfering with the fixing of the problem. Kind of wished I figured out that way of wording this earlier but odds are people would still ignore that part.


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## Cetanu (Jan 20, 2012)

JoetheBull said:


> I have considered it. But that will not quell my curiosity and the need to know if it is important to me. Also sex drive won't let that happen either. Also would like to experience being in a relationship at least once in my life. Plus avoid ending up like my uncle is a strong motivator.
> 
> How many women have I asked out? Don't know. Only things I have been able to do recently is work, sleep, cook, laundry, workout, and if I am lucky get one game of League of legends going. All girls I meet have boyfriends, husbands, or girlfriends. Miss High school meeting women was easier even if they wanted nothing to do with me(except as a joke). Philly and my town sucks.
> 
> ...


When I asked how many, I meant "so far" (within the context of this thread as opposed to your entire life).
Sounds like you have a decent routine going on.

What do you usually plan to do on weekends? What do you actually end up doing instead?

Consider the following:



> To take care of one's health after one has fallen ill is not the best method, and it is also difficult.
> The methods of the doctor are like a student of Buddhism arguing only about the phenomenal aspect of things. It seems that the way to cut off illness before one becomes ill is something the doctors know nothing about. This is something that I personally have come to realize very deeply.
> The method is to limit one's consumption of food and drink, cut off all sexual desire, and use moxa constantly.
> It seems that because I was the child of an old man the amount of moisture in my body was low. Thus when I was an adolescent the doctors and others said, "He is unlikely to get beyond the age of twenty". This got me thinking that since I was fortunate enough to be born, it would be a matter of great regret to die without having fulfilled my public service, so I made up my mind to stay alive.
> ...


Thoughts on this?


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## Finagle (Jun 4, 2011)

Seek help from a therapist for your depression. Learn how to be more positive. Work on your strengths. Once that is taken care off, you should be able to find your motivation to do something interesting with your life.

I guess you could also work on your extroversion. I noticed most of your hobbies can be done alone by yourself (I'm also guilty of this). Force yourself to join a club or something. Learn how to be less "boring" (which is mostly having the right attitude and finding what people are interested in).

Good luck


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## nordlund63 (Jul 24, 2012)

I would just advise that you lose weight and dress better, not to look good for the opposite gender, but to feel more confident with yourself. Walking up to start a conversation with someone knowing you look good does wonders for your confidence. 

Speaking of which, walking up and talking to people might be just what you need. Dressing better is really just a remedy to reducing social anxiety.


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## Jwing24 (Aug 2, 2010)

If someone mentioned this already never mind, but I am very pro - therapy. If you haven't done it or tried it I think it can be very beneficial if you find the right person.


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## Death Persuades (Feb 17, 2012)

Can you engage in masturbation when you're alone, or does that also not happen?


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## Herp (Nov 25, 2010)

I'm reading this thread and I'm like..wow.

I'm actually fucking terrified, because many of the feelings that the OP have stated have landed too close to comfort for me. I'm 21, which is not _too old_, but an age where I'm supposed to be already sexually experienced. I'm fairly attractive, keep myself well dressed, mantain a good sense of health and cleanliness and am a reasonable conversationist. But, even thought I'm now coming to accept that sex isn't everything, sex still remains an uncomfortable part of my life. 

You know those times, when you're drinking with friends/coworkers/classmates, and the subject suddenly is turned into sex and everyone starts to share their experiences and all, and you're just trying not to attract attention, trying to keep it low so you don't get exposed. That's how I feel about my involuntary celibacy.

One of my friends suggested me going to a prostitute, but like the OP has said, I'm not too comfortable with the lack of genuinity that the interaction presents. Fact is: They are going to have sex with you because you are paying. I'm trying to be open-minded and check if the benefits, in other words, gathering sexual experience, would weigh this problem. Coming from a idealistic standpoint, that's not how I wanted to go for the first time. I want to have an active part on the conquest, not the money. But again, I'm trying to view this.

I had phimosis (condition where the foreskin won't go down) up until 15 years old. I was first able to masturbate in the 'normal' way a year or so after that, but it was uncomfortable. And also, my house is always full, meaning there was no privacy for sexual exploration. Plus, having my father take me to a prostitute when I was 13 or so, and chiding me because _'I wasn't touching her like a man'_ didn't help much. I never took notion of how my phimosis affected me until I wrote this paragraph.

What makes me an involuntary celibate is some sort of self-sabotage behaviour. My therapist pointed out my problem with women came from the fact that I actively try to control chaos, where relationships don't follow any specific ruleset. Even though I can agree (and have realized that as well), reading the wikipedia article was able to raise all those feelings of fear and anxiety. I'm currently being able to pursuit girls sexually speaking - I can notice interest and act on it. But I fear mostly what happened in my last attempt: whenever things pointed towards sex, I got so anxious I instantly lost erection. 

Kissing, fine. Touching no erogenous zones, fine. Anything that points to sex, boner-death. I'm fucking terrified. I can't let go and enjoy the sensations. Jesus, I can't even focus on the sensations while masturbating. It's like I'm always rating the visual content (or mental content) in a scale until I cum, like 'Oh, yes, nice boobs.' *fap harder* 'I didn't like that' *loses fap power* 'Oh, that's cool!' *faps harder* 'Really cool.' *harder and cum*. Damn, I don't know my body. And I guess that to avoid going through that, I avoid getting into sexual situations.

I'm telling myself that the only way to overcome a fear is by facing it. But I am concerned with myself. I guess I'm not ready for this.


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## 22575 (May 23, 2011)

Check out this guy, he doesn't appear to very attractive physically, average build, and his clothes are even a bit weird, but he is attractive because of his attitude. He owns his style, he doesn't let it own him. He is incredibly confident in how he moves even though it is hilarious and the humor which he portrays adds to the image he builds:






A large part of sexual attraction is building up an image of attractiveness. In fact, some evolutionary theorists argue that men evolved to be funny in order to compensate for a lack of physical attractiveness with a projected image of attractiveness created by humor. If you can get a girl to laugh, or to admire your confidence you've got it made.


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## JoetheBull (Apr 29, 2010)

(edit. thought it through for entire day. making a bigger deal then it was. sorry)


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

Write erotica? :tongue:


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## RetroVortex (Aug 14, 2012)

I think the best thing to do is just stop worrying and do something about it. 
Just keep looking for opportunities to invest time in, social ones preferably, and just see where it goes from there.
I think a large part of the blues comes from a sense of helplessness. (At least for me it is)
So to get out of it, just keep finding ways to re-inforce self worth. (And having friends support you can be useful too if you're shy and impatient like I am! XD)


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## Aquamarine (Jul 24, 2011)

I hope I don't get banned for this, but there's a forum that offers support for love-shyness and involuntary celibacy. I would consider some members of the forum negative and pessimistic (for the latter they can't help it) but if it doesn't bother you then you'll be accompanied by people who understands your issue, as well as people who successfully gotten over being incel.


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## theflame (Apr 12, 2014)

I take up hobbies to not think about it. It's voluntary and involuntary for me at the same time for 3 years now. 
There just haven't been any decent prospects so I feel a good fr*ck isn't worth it no-strings-attached. I've never pleasured myself until recently [[I'm not joking, I really haven't until this year when I finally couldn't take it anymore, lolol]]...but then I got to doing that and it's I guess helped me somewhat when I really wanted to crave a man's touch that I'm not going to get.

Most of these punks that try to talk to me in my town don't deserve me. They talk about fr*acking me like they just want a fr*ack. And I know it won't be good because I'm always thinking about my long distance interest who would really be the only one to satisfy me but since I can never see him (at least currently)...I'm shit outta luck since we're too broke and busy to visit each other right now, ugh.


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## Indiana Dan (Jun 11, 2013)

I don't know man. I feel really hopeless too. Suicide is a rather frequent thought for me too. One of the biggest driving forces of life is sex, and I have failed. It is pretty much the worst feeling in the world. The world is laughing in my face at my failure. It's tough to carry on. I don't know what to say. I'm sorry


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

I always thought masturbation was key


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## Scrabbletray (Apr 27, 2014)

.


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## JoetheBull (Apr 29, 2010)

Cinnamon83 said:


> I always thought masturbation was key


I know it's been over 6 month's (not sure why I didn't respond to this back then. So long ago) but masturbation does not help. It would be nice if it did. But it doesn't help no matter how many hours I waste on the task (multiple times, finding porn, trying to come up with the fantasy's story line, etc).

I have been trying to give up on dating (feels weird to give up something you haven't done for 15 years) and looking for a relationship since at this point in my life it seems like it's most likely is a waste of time. But still part of me refuses to give up and it's annoying. Not to mention my drinking of soda is now getting out of hand. I think it might be related to me trying my hardest to suppress my needs for sex and a relationship (still not sure why I want one) or I am sub consciously trying to commit suicide through type-2 diabetes. 

Sorry I keep venting this subject, but I don't really have any one I can vent to offline and actually get some kind of advice or comment that might help.


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## DAPHNE XO (Jan 16, 2012)

JoetheBull said:


> I know it's been over 6 month's (not sure why I didn't respond to this back then. So long ago) but masturbation does not help. It would be nice if it did. But it doesn't help no matter how many hours I waste on the task (multiple times, finding porn, trying to come up with the fantasy's story line, etc).
> 
> I have been trying to give up on dating (feels weird to give up something you haven't done for 15 years) and looking for a relationship since at this point in my life it seems like it's most likely is a waste of time. But still part of me refuses to give up and it's annoying. Not to mention my drinking of soda is now getting out of hand. I think it might be related to me trying my hardest to suppress my needs for sex and a relationship (still not sure why I want one) or I am sub consciously trying to commit suicide through type-2 diabetes.
> 
> Sorry I keep venting this subject, but I don't really have any one I can vent to offline and actually get some kind of advice or comment that might help.


Sex, or lack of it rather, is not your problem. Confidence is.

Confidence is what will a) help you find a suitable partner, b) trust in your ability to woo said partner, c) trust in your ability to sexually please said partner, d) find the right balance of give and take in order to progress the relationship into something long term or find a new partner without the fear of loss that comes with letting go of someone.

I think you are confounding sex and intimacy, then ignoring the intimacy part (which you need in order to have fulfilling sex as this is the emotional part of it) and solely focusing on the physical part.

I'm not sure if you have considered doing things to improve your self-esteem/confidence?

Till you have that down, you might as well forget sex altogether. You need to work on balancing your emotions, and actually believing/trusting in yourself. Sex is the end goal, but confidence is the means to that end.

PS - I think incel is much more worse and common in men than it is women, because men seem to relate their sexuality with sexual partners (and focus on the physical aspects of this), whereas women are more likely to peg their sexuality on intimacy, and once that's down, sex is a nice addition to the package, but not the main prize.


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## JoetheBull (Apr 29, 2010)

DaphneDelRey said:


> I'm not sure if you have considered doing things to improve your self-esteem/confidence?
> 
> Till you have that down, you might as well forget sex altogether. You need to work on balancing your emotions, and actually believing/trusting in yourself. Sex is the end goal, but confidence is the means to that end.


That's why I need to find a way to cope with it. I have tried to increase my self esteem/confidence, but doing so seem next to impossible to even accomplish. It takes confidence to gain experience and it takes experience to gain confidence. The first and last time I have been on anything close to a date was back in 1999. 

My experience with sex haven't been that good since the only means is to pay for it and at times I get rejected that way also. Plus the sex is very hollow and don't feel much during it. So the intimacy part might be what I want, but I can't say since I haven't felt during sex or cuddling (once again this requires paying for it and very rarely does it happen. Usually feels nicer though).

As for believing and trusting myself. That has gotten a little better recently, but in some areas it's impossible because they are where I am usually very poor at doing. Career planning or even deciding on a career has been just as much a source of frustration as no sex/relationships, sucking at things I would like to do but only being good at things I hate doing, being 32 and not knowing calculus (I'm the dumb-ass of my group of friends), inability to find a job that doesn't over stress me or have me do only grave yard shift, and being forced to tolerate going to bars and dealing with drunk people (I don't drink or do drugs. Also two reasons I have been single my whole life).

I appreciate your help and input. I am not that smart of a person. It took me years to find out a large chunk of my social anxiety and depression could be solved by taking vitamin D3. Still surprised that helped.


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## DAPHNE XO (Jan 16, 2012)

JoetheBull said:


> That's why I need to find a way to cope with it. I have tried to increase my self esteem/confidence, but doing so seem next to impossible to even accomplish. It takes confidence to gain experience and it takes experience to gain confidence. The first and last time I have been on anything close to a date was back in 1999.


I wasn't really talking about going on dates, I meant just being around people normally, in a platonic setting on a regular basis. Like volunteering or something?



> My experience with sex haven't been that good since the only means is to pay for it and at times I get rejected that way also. Plus the sex is very hollow and don't feel much during it. So the intimacy part might be what I want, but I can't say since I haven't felt during sex or cuddling (once again this requires paying for it and very rarely does it happen. Usually feels nicer though).


Okay, but forget sex till you have normal interaction on a platonic level down. This is what builds intimacy. And yes, intimacy is clearly what is missing here.



> As for believing and trusting myself. That has gotten a little better recently, but in some areas it's impossible because they are where I am usually very poor at doing. Career planning or even deciding on a career has been just as much a source of frustration as no sex/relationships, sucking at things I would like to do but only being good at things I hate doing, being 32 and not knowing calculus (I'm the dumb-ass of my group of friends), inability to find a job that doesn't over stress me or have me do only grave yard shift, and being forced to tolerate going to bars and dealing with drunk people (I don't drink or do drugs. Also two reasons I have been single my whole life).


Go volunteer, it helped me when pinning down what I wanted to do in life A LOT.



> I appreciate your help and input. I am not that smart of a person. It took me years to find out a large chunk of my social anxiety and depression could be solved by taking vitamin D3. Still surprised that helped.


None of that means you're an idiot lol.

edit: Ideally, you'd volunteer or something like that, while going to therapy as well. But I realise not everyone can afford therapy. I only mention it because I fear you might start a new activity and take all your baggage there as well, then put everyone off with the load you carry. It's much better to offload your problems to someone who can help and has the wherewithal to. Coworkers and the like are not such people.


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## JoetheBull (Apr 29, 2010)

DaphneDelRey said:


> edit: Ideally, you'd volunteer or something like that, while going to therapy as well. But I realise not everyone can afford therapy. I only mention it because I fear you might start a new activity and take all your baggage there as well, then put everyone off with the load you carry. It's much better to offload your problems to someone who can help and has the wherewithal to. Coworkers and the like are not such people.


Have tried going to a therapist a few times. Things usually got worse every time. I am not very good at verbalizing things (seems to be a common ISFP thing. Also sucks since I wanted to be a writer for cartoons/comics) so it usually ends up being frustrating to both me and the therapist. I also picked up this frustration so I would just say anything and then things just get derailed. Luckily I figured out how to cure most of my depression (except for more recently due to frustration and stress) and social anxiety to the point I joined two clubs at school. I kind of gotten had a set back due to some events (kicked out of game design out of nowhere. Probably because I am much older then everyone else and was kind of boring) so kind of avoiding clubs at the moment.

Volunteering is difficult to do since I work full time (grave yard shift. Not the best for a social life), go to school, and take care of the puppy/dogs. Sometimes feels like I have any energy (especially during fall and winter holidays) to even play video games, draw, exercise, or learning to play the piano (keyboard). Also don't really know of any volunteer things other than the Zoo. I'll trying to look for something maybe in spring (as long as my class schedule make it to insane to handle) since my job isn't so busy that I am nearly killing myself to get things done.

Thanks for listening. I think my mind is so frustrated that it's responding irrationally to my decision to give up on dating and relationships until I have a career and get good at drawing and maybe piano/keyboard(this goal disappears and re appears so many times). A decision I have been trying to stick by and force on myself, but usually gets derailed by friends, family, and slice of life mangas/animations. I wonder if there is a special ISFP way to cope with being single.


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## The Proof (Aug 5, 2009)

JoetheBull said:


> with out the use of prostitutes


well there goes my idea


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## DAPHNE XO (Jan 16, 2012)

JoetheBull said:


> Have tried going to a therapist a few times. Things usually got worse every time. I am not very good at verbalizing things (seems to be a common ISFP thing. Also sucks since I wanted to be a writer for cartoons/comics) so it usually ends up being frustrating to both me and the therapist. I also picked up this frustration so I would just say anything and then things just get derailed. Luckily I figured out how to cure most of my depression (except for more recently due to frustration and stress) and social anxiety to the point I joined two clubs at school. I kind of gotten had a set back due to some events (kicked out of game design out of nowhere. Probably because I am much older then everyone else and was kind of boring) so kind of avoiding clubs at the moment.


If you are a better writer perhaps you could try some kind of online therapy. Or even reading books (not self-help ones, ones with a pure psychotherapy/therapy focus) and that might help you understand how to put what you want to say into words.

Speaking and writing and the same skill, some people are better at one than the other, so that's just something to think about.

Also, the problem I see in this kind of situation where you say you "cure" yourself is that with every set back (e.g., getting kicked out of that club) you go further into a depression again. I don't think issues like this can be solved on their own because it doesn't appear that you know what you need to do, let alone how to do it. This isn't me criticising you, just mentioning what I've observed in your posts. I think you'd find it more beneficial to do this with the help of someone as opposed to doing it alone.



> Volunteering is difficult to do since I *work full time* (grave yard shift. Not the best for a social life), *go to school, and take care of the puppy/dogs*. Sometimes feels like I have any energy (especially during fall and winter holidays) to even play video games, draw, exercise, or learning to play the piano (keyboard). Also don't really know of any volunteer things other than the Zoo. I'll trying to look for something maybe in spring (as long as my class schedule make it to insane to handle) since my job isn't so busy that I am nearly killing myself to get things done.


In that case you have to figure out how to maximise your social contact based on what you already do. For some reason I just assumed you weren't in school or working, but since you are doing both, this is actually better for you.

There's no need to add volunteering now, just work on maximising social contact output from what you already do. Then you'll get used to intimacy vs. boundaries and how to build it. Since you have the right environment, but still don't quite get how to approach the situation, then I think this further points to you both not knowing what to do and how to do it.



> Thanks for listening. I think my mind is so frustrated that it's responding irrationally to my decision to give up on dating and relationships until I have a career and get good at drawing and maybe piano/keyboard(this goal disappears and re appears so many times). A decision I have been trying to stick by and force on myself, but usually gets derailed by friends, family, and slice of life mangas/animations. I wonder if there is a special ISFP way to cope with being single.


I think with all things, dating happens when you're busy with life. You don't really need to put it on hold per se in that way. Maybe it would be better to say you'd give up on dating until you've built the confidence you need. Because you could have all those things (a career, good drawing skills and piano skills) but still not be able to figure out dating. You've got to work on that as well.


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## unoriginal (Dec 22, 2013)

Ummmm what? lol


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## dizzycactus (Sep 9, 2012)

I've been a member on an incel based forum for years, with over 10k posts. 

Believe me, therapy, volunteering etc won't help. 
Being the guy that society tells us to be won't help. Western women aren't generally attracted to kindness, politeness, or intelligence. 
Learn to imitate the dark triad behaviours, or find a girl from a different country who will find the aforementioned traits attractive.


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## AliceWonder (Dec 11, 2014)

This thread is old but I would like to add my two cents, keep the change if it isn't worth that much.

I am a guy (despite me username) and heterosexual but I always always had trouble with women. As in the few opportunities where I actually picked up the signs of interest and was then in an intimate situation, I would have trouble of the type Viagra is often prescribed for. But no trouble in that department when I was alone. It clearly was something psychological.

This will be controversial, but what actually helped quite a bit for me was phonesex. I had the same problems on the phone - but I met a few operators who understood and really helped me, there is a misperception that PSOs are party girls that just want to trade a good time for cash and I suppose there are some like that, but there are also well educated professionals who are sex positive people that just enjoy having a good time - and being a PSO gives them a safe way to play without their identity being disclosed.

But don't do it without doing a lot of research because a lot of the companies out there aren't worthy of your time, and it may not be the best solution for you. It's also not cheap, but it is cheaper than sex therapy - though if professional therapy is what you need then see a real therapist.

For me, a large part of it was I just needed help coming out of my sexually repressed shell and they helped me do that.


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## dizzycactus (Sep 9, 2012)

AliceWonder said:


> This thread is old but I would like to add my two cents, keep the change if it isn't worth that much.
> 
> I am a guy (despite me username) and heterosexual but I always always had trouble with women. As in the few opportunities where I actually picked up the signs of interest and was then in an intimate situation, I would have trouble of the type Viagra is often prescribed for. But no trouble in that department when I was alone. It clearly was something psychological.
> 
> ...


Seems like you had love-shyness. It's when sensitive genetics are influenced by an environment that frames male sexuality as perverted and lewd, something women find shameful. It's not so much that you are ashamed of your own sexuality, than a fear that girls will find it shameful. Some repeated activities like phone sex can teach your subconscious that your sexuality will not be rejected and seen as shameful, whilst other guys find it doesn't work for them, and need other treatment routes.


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## AliceWonder (Dec 11, 2014)

It's quite possible. I grew up in a very religious household where looking at a women lustfully was taught as seeing her as a piece of meat.


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## AliceWonder (Dec 11, 2014)

Also, my sexual preference is for the woman to be in control but so much of western patriarchal culture teaches the opposite is the norm.


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## dizzycactus (Sep 9, 2012)

AliceWonder said:


> It's quite possible. I grew up in a very religious household where looking at a women lustfully was taught as seeing her as a piece of meat.


that's also taught to the mainstream. How many films are there where the bad guy is lustful, and the woman he's lustful towards is disgusted by it, and then the hero conquers the bad guy, and acts like an asexual gentleman to the girl, as if it's inherently good and respectable to not subject a woman to your sexuality? 

there was never any real counter point telling us that some expression of sexuality is good, and required to form relationships. 

most guys ignored it all, but a few were sensitive and took it all to heart, and thought that women would come to appreciate them for essentially acting asexual. instead, girls only ever saw them as friends.


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## dizzycactus (Sep 9, 2012)

AliceWonder said:


> Also, my sexual preference is for the woman to be in control but so much of western patriarchal culture teaches the opposite is the norm.


weird, mine is mildly in that direction, but I haven't considered before if a preference for sexual passivity was linked to LS


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## Sourpuss (Aug 9, 2014)

JoetheBull said:


> That's why I need to find a way to cope with it. I have tried to increase my self esteem/confidence, but doing so seem next to impossible to even accomplish.


You need external validation to feel good about yourself, to have the confidence required to become more out-going and charming, more friendly, and thus more attractive. 

Good luck.


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## Bishop (Nov 16, 2014)

@Joe

Have you considered zoosexuality? Dogs are more loyal than humans, anyway.

Or how about a sex robot?

Robots need love too, ya know.


* *


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## JoetheBull (Apr 29, 2010)

Bishop said:


> @_Joe_
> 
> Have you considered zoosexuality? Dogs are more loyal than humans, anyway.
> 
> ...


Zoosexuality no thanks. Unless aliens from mass effect are in that category. But that's probably Xenosexuality. 

Sex bots don't think we reached that level of technology yet


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## JoetheBull (Apr 29, 2010)

Still haven't thought of a way to cope with being an involuntary celibate and being single my entire life. Been a while so I wanted to see if anybody might have thought of something new.


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## dizzycactus (Sep 9, 2012)

JoetheBull said:


> Still haven't thought of a way to cope with being an involuntary celibate and being single my entire life. Been a while so I wanted to see if anybody might have thought of something new.


I found a girl here. She's also Asian. Double win. 

I've found that daily trolling is what keeps a girl interested. I am not a natural peacock/PUA, but I am a natural troll, so it fit me perfectly.


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

JoetheBull said:


> Still haven't thought of a way to cope with being an involuntary celibate and being single my entire life. Been a while so I wanted to see if anybody might have thought of something new.



find a girl you think is cute. ask her questions. engage in a conversation.

ask her on a date.

be honest wiht her. LISTEN TO HER.


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## OrangeAppled (Jun 26, 2009)

JoetheBull said:


> Still haven't thought of a way to cope with being an involuntary celibate and being single my entire life. Been a while so I wanted to see if anybody might have thought of something new.


Always frame it as a choice. If you don't have a medical condition that prevents you from having the physical act of sex, then you obviously have certain standards you won't compromise on just to get laid. That's actually good. Standards can protect us and they can drive us towards meeting higher needs. Other times, some standards needlessly limit us and they are often born out of fear.

So framing it as a choice gives you power. Every time you find an excuse for why you can't find a partner, stop and try and find the choice in it. Sometimes the choice is simply in how you frame situations or interpret others. 

I am not saying all of life is about perspective and that we can control all outcomes this way. But you do remove a lot of obstacles this way, and then that opens things up for you to become a part of a dynamic that could lead to a desired outcome. So when you go out, switch your objective to simply getting to know people and learn from them (create a dynamic), not on finding someone right for you and getting your needs met (force an outcome).

So say you are in a social situation and you feel like people are responding to you as if you are boring or weird. 
Many choices:
- Are you choosing to interpret their response that way?
- Are you using this interpretation or assumption as an excuse to not engage and risk vulnerability? 
- Are you insisting on things being how you'd like them & then judging others when they don't go that way (i.e. "they don't talk about stuff I find interesting therefore they are boring and not for me, and so I will not participate")? 
- Are you seeking validation instead of connection?

Alternate choices: 
- I will choose to interpret people as positively as possible and feel compassion when they fall short
- I will have compassion for myself when I fail instead of making a universal judgment like "there is something wrong with me"
- I will try and see what is interesting about people even if they initially don't grab me. I will consider it a priority to find this interesting thing & validate it instead of proving to them how interesting I am.
- I will choose to operate from the assumption that I am interesting and my weirdness is cool, and so I will put myself out there more (not just in body by showing up, but in spirit)
- I will seek to create a connection/dynamic instead of getting validation/a specific outcome.

IMO, before you do this, then you will probably have to face why you are scared of having power. For me, I think it's because I am afraid that it could be destructive. I have made choices that have limited my power to get certain things I desire; and sometimes that is good. Sometimes these amount to morals or personal values that are legit. We all have standards which limit us to varying degrees, but which ones really serve higher needs & which ones are limiting & mostly out of fear? Is something really destructive to your well-being or is it more of a threat to the ego? If it's the former, then what are you afraid of? If you can identify it, then make a new choice that is not based on fear.


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## JoetheBull (Apr 29, 2010)

drmiller100 said:


> find a girl you think is cute. ask her questions. engage in a conversation.
> 
> ask her on a date.
> 
> be honest wiht her. LISTEN TO HER.


Yeah, that failed the first 100+ times I have tried it. There are no more people left in my area.


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## OrangeAppled (Jun 26, 2009)

JoetheBull said:


> Yeah, that failed the first 100+ times I have tried it. There are no more people left in my area.


Okay, Joe....exercise time... how can you make the choice to see this differently and open up opportunity (i.e. give you power) instead of closing it?
What fear is beneath this response?

Believing this means you are right, and then that means you don't have to change. But do you really want to be right about this?


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## Chime (Apr 20, 2017)

Great ways to cope with the lonely depression you feel when you're not getting laid!!!

Working out. 
Set yourself a schedule of at least 3 days a week to go and work out. Good if it's done when you wake up since it'll do wonders for your metabolism. Also working out releases dopamine and saratonine which makes you feel better. Steve Cook on youtube has a lot of great videos for workouts. You can workout at home or join a gym. 

Join a special interest group.
Gym's btw are a great place to join. Don't be shy at the gym, ask about other peoples routines and expand your workout. Now you're getting a healthier body and making friends. 

You could join an art club or kite flying club or anything really. Something you've never done before or something you just enjoy doing. Great way to meet people and have fun doing an activity you like doing. Being around then will help with your social skills as well. 


Find a project to work on and put in the work and get this done. 
I'm currently in school and this helps. It's productive as well.

Quit negative habits or at the least cut back on these. 



I get pretty depressed about being single or not getting laid myself and life can be frustrating. 
I workout regularly. I do a 20min walk on the treadmill everyday with the max incline and this helps relieve the stress. Then I work out on the bench machine mon, wed, fri. In January I was using setting 10 and now I use setting 17 [I assume each number is 10lbs but *shrug*]. I've also noticed people notice me more often since I've been getting bigger and stronger and in better shape.


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## JoetheBull (Apr 29, 2010)

OrangeAppled said:


> Okay, Joe....exercise time... how can you make the choice to see this differently and open up opportunity (i.e. give you power) instead of closing it?
> What fear is beneath this response?
> 
> Believing this means you are right, and then that means you don't have to change. But do you really want to be right about this?


Only thing I can think of is this is a good reason to move out of my area, state, and/or country.

Underlining fear would be to be stuck in this area. I have never lived anywhere else. It's mainly old people, drunks, very young people, and not a whole lot of fellow nerds and geeks my age. Any of the ones who were there earlier didn't really like me much back in the day.

Not sure how to approach this last question. I am very open to be wrong do to lack of accurate data. But everyone I have met are in relationships, not interested (could be wrong due to inability to pick up on signals or flirting or playing hard to get), or I am not interested in (it happens despite my standards aren't as ridiculous as some people I know. Except drunks. Lost interest in the last girl my friend got me a date with when I was around her drunk). According to the internet (dating sites) I don't meet the standards woman want like me not having a Associates (most require Bachelors), not having ambition, I don't drink or do drugs, I don't like sports, hate clubs, and don't make over $50,000 a year. 

Still need to respond to your first post.


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## with water (Aug 13, 2014)

android654 said:


> _In the case of news reporter Christine Chubbuck's suicide on live television_


*Goes to read her story and desperately tries not to fall in love with her*
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/li...rue-story-christine-chubbucks-on-air-suicide/


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