# Don't want to give you any preconceptions. Judge me purely based on everything here.



## Lord Fudgingsley (Mar 3, 2013)

I'll openly admit, I'm seriously struggling now for reasons why you're a sensor. Which means that xNFP may well be on the cards - or perhaps xNFJ, even. I'm gonna sleep now, but I hope, come the morning I can read this again and start considering some other type.


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## Lord Fudgingsley (Mar 3, 2013)

Right. As the overall vibe I get from you inclines me to Fi as a top function, I'm very prepared to consider ENFP. I'd expect an INFP to have a sentimental and melancholy presence, which I don't really see in you. Ne-Fi sounds like it could fit.


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## Prostituta (Jun 18, 2014)

Stendhal said:


> That's really weird, perhaps they changed it since the last time I used it was half a year ago. I could see you as an ENFP, but I also could see INFP or INFJ. Always remember that while we can help you type yourself, you ultimately have to make the decision.
> 
> The creation of taboo is another fascinating subject. At this point you get into a nexus point of psychological instinct, culture and power. Human nature is wonderfully complex and contradictory, so much so that trying to comprehend it is a monumental task even more the best minds. As for my metaphor (you will have to forgive my purple prose, I had just finished reading one of Angela Carter's book [she was a wonderful novelist btw. If you can handle her ultra lush prose style and her tendency for didacticism, I have a feeling you might like some of her work), What I meant is that even if the reality behind a myth maybe be unpleasant, the myth's appeal might still be maintained.


Argh I'm so excited to address your last point I almost don't want to discuss MBTI anymore haha. But yes, I do feel either VERY INFJ or very ENFP. More often ENFP honestly, since I'm scatterbrained, always in search of that next thing that will intrigue me, and challenge these little brain cells of mine. While I do agree it's up to the person themselves to type themselves, I'm just so mutable I feel like I can convince myself to be any type. So that's why I love outside input, to keep myself on point somewhat.

Also, I find the point you made about how myths could still hold appeal even when they are disproven very interesting. Why do you think this is? I feel like it's because it's a survival trait that humans have developed along with their conscience in order to keep being able to live. It creates reason to keep living. The paradox of survival and the seeming meaninglessness of it is just mind boggling to me.


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## Prostituta (Jun 18, 2014)

Redthir Jerdisheim said:


> Right. As the overall vibe I get from you inclines me to Fi as a top function, I'm very prepared to consider ENFP. I'd expect an INFP to have a sentimental and melancholy presence, which I don't really see in you. Ne-Fi sounds like it could fit.


I used to be really melancholic when I was younger, I will admit. When I entered middle school I started grasping the idea that this world isn't the beautiful playground I thought it was. In high school that became even worse, almost to the point of where it became toxic to me and the people around me. So now, I actively strive not to let myself get so lost in negativity and melancholy and I tend to have a cheerful and active facade. Fake it til you make it, they say. I'm in the process of making it. I do feel better when I force myself to be energetic though. When I see that it's infectious to the people around me, and it makes them feel better, it motivates me to be happy. On top of that, I choose to not give a fuck. I gave too many when I was younger.

So in conclusion, I probably did not help your typing of ENFP at all hahaha. But I believe I am ENFP, since I just need a lot of external stimulation to get my Ne going.

This has been really fun! Thank you so much for going on this trip with me. I really enjoyed seeing everyone's thought process on this whole thing haha.


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## Stendhal (May 31, 2014)

Prostituta said:


> Argh I'm so excited to address your last point I almost don't want to discuss MBTI anymore haha. But yes, I do feel either VERY INFJ or very ENFP. More often ENFP honestly, since I'm scatterbrained, always in search of that next thing that will intrigue me, and challenge these little brain cells of mine. While I do agree it's up to the person themselves to type themselves, I'm just so mutable I feel like I can convince myself to be any type. So that's why I love outside input, to keep myself on point somewhat.
> 
> Also, I find the point you made about how myths could still hold appeal even when they are disproven very interesting. Why do you think this is? I feel like it's because it's a survival trait that humans have developed along with their conscience in order to keep being able to live. It creates reason to keep living. The paradox of survival and the seeming meaninglessness of it is just mind boggling to me.


I get your concerns about typing yourself and why you desire outside impute-I myself do not fully trust the results on any self assistant test I do because I know the person I think I am or want to be gets in the way. Your description of scatter brainedness does fit p more than j, and ENFPs are kind of notorious for it. For some reason your posts are giving off a bit of an introvert vibe, but than again, I could easily be wrong. I wonder if extraverts are more likely to ask for impute on this kind of thing than extraverts.

Your theory about why disproven myths remain believed is interesting. As a survival trait, it is interesting, because is suggests that the human being cannot lie without lying to itself. Survival verses meaninglessness is similar to what Nietzsche's "God is Dead" line is all about. There are many who prefer to live in the world of myth, protected by reality by a legion of sophists (oh yea, that last sentence might have potential if I could only make it less clumsy. There was a time when I was really into Nietzsche, so I have thought a bit about this kind of existentialist stuff (I also read Victor Frankel who I now realize was one of the big influences on my worldview [ok I'll admit Karl Marx is another big influence, but that's huge can of worms, especially since I've never been a communist]. It's also a very modern issue because it is deals with the implications of religion's retreat into a smaller and smaller corner.


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## Purrfessor (Jul 30, 2013)

I want to jump on this discussion too. I do believe lying to oneself is completely necessary for survival... But not permanently. I think the human goal should be to overcome oneself and truly understand their own emotions. For example, I have delusions of grandeur. Have had them my entire life. I think it's a defense mechanism from the trauma I suffered at age three. Overcoming delusions of grandeur was incredibly scary and painful... But I'm more authentic now. There are varying places in your psyche where you can be emotionally immature simply because you had never taken time and energy to mature those areas. I think that's what religion abuses - ones emotional immaturity to the concept of not knowing.


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## Stendhal (May 31, 2014)

You make a very good point Stelliferous. The lie has only a temporary useful value as a stop gap until that time when the person is strong enough to face the truth. I'm a little more pessimistic in that I remain skeptical about whether anyone can really face themselves fully. Another issue is whether something like a "true self" even exists, or whether it is a construct of language. And finally how does the question of whether we make or discover ourselves affect this question?


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## Purrfessor (Jul 30, 2013)

That's the glorious part of your true self. You can't just communicate it, you have to be. Otherwise there would be a guide on how to find your true self. All we can do is live, love, and fight. I like loving. Others (most others) like living, and you know the ones who fight.


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## ninjahitsawall (Feb 1, 2013)

Redthir Jerdisheim said:


> *
> You're quite tricky to type (cheers for the puzzle, by the way), but if an ISFP told me all of the above, I would raise no objections.*


I agree that 7&8 sound like Ni and Fi, I found those relatable personally. With 8 I often am disappointed with TV/films I am able to predict to a high degree (feels like I wasted my time watching something generic/overly formulated). As for 7, I have thought that before "I can do ___ if I really wanted to, just can't be bothered to" (with both neutral and morally questionable things such as manipulation.) I tend to be persuasive by default with anything I care about anyway (and possibly come off as manipulative to others), so trying to actually manipulate someone seems unnecessary to me. 

As far as 6, I tend to take sort of an "amoral" approach to things (leave sense of right/wrong out of decisions, making a proper cost/benefit decision will inherently lead to the most (or at least one of the most) ethical ones. Morals only really come to the forefront of an issue when someone is clearly violating them.

What I don't relate to at all is "Being around people is pure bliss" but your next paragraph about small talk and all that, I do. 

"mental hedonism" sounds Ni to me as well. 

I'm not as comfortable typing you with other functions that aren't in my own stack. I did first think INFJ is a possibility. They often come off as having more of a Thinking preference to me (I seem to assume INFJ are INTP sometimes) and I was getting the same sense from your post. 

You seem to be more comfortable than I am with knowing an emotion is too strong for you to think clearly. I need to go into hiding when that happens. lol

Also, I am a bit conflict-avoidant in that I find most things that people start conflicts over to be kind of ridiculous and not worth the involvement. So I'm not sure that's necessarily a feeler thing, could also be an introvert thing. 

You definitely seem like you have an introverted dom function of some kind to me. Although I guess this is hard to determine just through writing. (Speaking of which, typically, extroverts prefer speaking to writing.) My personal order of preference is writing > speaking in person > phone (can't stand phones.)

Don't know if any of that helps, but with all this Ni/Fi talk I thought I'd chip in


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## Prostituta (Jun 18, 2014)

Stendhal said:


> You make a very good point Stelliferous. The lie has only a temporary useful value as a stop gap until that time when the person is strong enough to face the truth. I'm a little more pessimistic in that I remain skeptical about whether anyone can really face themselves fully. Another issue is whether something like a "true self" even exists, or whether it is a construct of language. And finally how does the question of whether we make or discover ourselves affect this question?


At the same time though, you explore the myths of creation of other cultures and you sort of get a sense of awe and wonderment and it totally goes back to the point that myths and stories are powerful indeed. I found an incredibly thorough and interesting post that studied the imagery and lore behind the movie Prometheus and it put everything that both of you said into perspective. (I'll link it later once I find it again) Sure, it's probably all meaningless. But the color that you provide into humanity's back story and the collective unconscious just honestly provides a wonderful sense of everything being bigger than yourself. Whether a true self exists or not therefore becomes insignificant in the face of the greater truth, and I suppose I'm just expounding why myths and lore are so important.

As for the self though... It's too deep for me to even try to explain how I truly feel about it. It's really buried in the realm of symbolism and non-language constructsin in my head, but I'll try. A sense of self is just the memories and experiences you've accumulated with the external world that you've somehow shaped internally. You are a collection of what has happened to you and you are a reaction of everything that the world has created. Perhaps that was why we developed consciousness. The world has always worked from the outside, externally changing shape and growing, physically at least. Maybe with us, the world is ready to look at itself and try to grow inwardly as well. Perhaps consciousness and a sense of 'self' is the natural step any creature goes through as being part of this universe. Maybe there is really no sense of self other than the processes and cognitive perceptions that absorb what our reality is.


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## Prostituta (Jun 18, 2014)

ninjahitsawall said:


> I agree that 7&8 sound like Ni and Fi, I found those relatable personally. With 8 I often am disappointed with TV/films I am able to predict to a high degree (feels like I wasted my time watching something generic/overly formulated). As for 7, I have thought that before "I can do ___ if I really wanted to, just can't be bothered to" (with both neutral and morally questionable things such as manipulation.) I tend to be persuasive by default with anything I care about anyway (and possibly come off as manipulative to others), so trying to actually manipulate someone seems unnecessary to me.
> 
> As far as 6, I tend to take sort of an "amoral" approach to things (leave sense of right/wrong out of decisions, making a proper cost/benefit decision will inherently lead to the most (or at least one of the most) ethical ones. Morals only really come to the forefront of an issue when someone is clearly violating them.
> 
> ...


Hi there. Welcome to the discussion.
What makes you feel like I have an Introverted Dom function?

And can I cheat and say I prefer speaking and writing the same? I have a speech impediment in real life but nevertheless I always try my hardest to get my point across vocally because humans live in a very physical world and I need to learn to adjust to that. With writing though, my speech impediment doesn't get in the way and it is much easier for me to elaborate on my thoughts.

Actually, I didn't give speaking enough credit. I love conversing and exchanging ideas. I'm just more extroverted in the sense that I listen more though. I listen to what people have to say, absorb things, and I just get a better sense of who they are. I am interested in living in other people's worlds, simply because outside perspective just fascinates me so much. I don't know what that contributes to. Ne perhaps? Most probably.

All your points seemed valid. Like I already said, I feel very INFJ a lot of the time because of my deep involvement with other people, and frequently with their betterment. But dear lord the structure just isn't there hahaha. I don't feel like I have a compass inside of me that points me the direction I want to take with people. It's more like, come with me if you want to enjoy the ride, and we'll be able to listen and talk to each other along the way. Otherwise, oh well. You have your life and I have mine.


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## Purrfessor (Jul 30, 2013)

Prostituta said:


> Hi there. Welcome to the discussion.
> What makes you feel like I have an Introverted Dom function?
> 
> And can I cheat and say I prefer speaking and writing the same? I have a speech impediment in real life but nevertheless I always try my hardest to get my point across vocally because humans live in a very physical world and I need to learn to adjust to that. With writing though, my speech impediment doesn't get in the way and it is much easier for me to elaborate on my thoughts.
> ...


I really like those last three sentences. Focused on enjoyment in life. I wish I knew more people with that kind of outlook on sociality.


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## Stendhal (May 31, 2014)

Prostituta said:


> At the same time though, you explore the myths of creation of other cultures and you sort of get a sense of awe and wonderment and it totally goes back to the point that myths and stories are powerful indeed. I found an incredibly thorough and interesting post that studied the imagery and lore behind the movie Prometheus and it put everything that both of you said into perspective. (I'll link it later once I find it again) Sure, it's probably all meaningless. But the color that you provide into humanity's back story and the collective unconscious just honestly provides a wonderful sense of everything being bigger than yourself. Whether a true self exists or not therefore becomes insignificant in the face of the greater truth, and I suppose I'm just expounding why myths and lore are so important.
> 
> As for the self though... It's too deep for me to even try to explain how I truly feel about it. It's really buried in the realm of symbolism and non-language constructsin in my head, but I'll try. A sense of self is just the memories and experiences you've accumulated with the external world that you've somehow shaped internally. You are a collection of what has happened to you and you are a reaction of everything that the world has created. Perhaps that was why we developed consciousness. The world has always worked from the outside, externally changing shape and growing, physically at least. Maybe with us, the world is ready to look at itself and try to grow inwardly as well. Perhaps consciousness and a sense of 'self' is the natural step any creature goes through as being part of this universe. Maybe there is really no sense of self other than the processes and cognitive perceptions that absorb what our reality is.


Myths can be very interesting, and they do make the back story glow, but I think the problem comes in if you get to literally. As for the sense of being a part of something bigger than yourself, there are different ways to get that, include through myth or religion. It's interesting how in that case, the existence of a true self could become meaningless, perhaps because the person is no longer alienated from the world. With all that sad, and while recognizing the importance of myth, I do think it is important to maintain a distinction between myth and truth (in the sense of true externally to ourselves) because losing connection with the material world (from which everything grows and returns to) usually ends very badly!

As for your idea of the self being a collection of memories and perceptions and how you process them, while it is a good theory which recognizes how the past accumulates continuously without ever really dying, I do have one question: Are you still the same person if you lose your memory?


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## Prostituta (Jun 18, 2014)

Stelliferous said:


> I really like those last three sentences. Focused on enjoyment in life. I wish I knew more people with that kind of outlook on sociality.


What type of people do you usually run into?


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## Prostituta (Jun 18, 2014)

Stendhal said:


> Myths can be very interesting, and they do make the back story glow, but I think the problem comes in if you get to literally. As for the sense of being a part of something bigger than yourself, there are different ways to get that, include through myth or religion. It's interesting how in that case, the existence of a true self could become meaningless, perhaps because the person is no longer alienated from the world. With all that sad, and while recognizing the importance of myth, I do think it is important to maintain a distinction between myth and truth (in the sense of true externally to ourselves) because losing connection with the material world (from which everything grows and returns to) usually ends very badly!
> 
> As for your idea of the self being a collection of memories and perceptions and how you process them, while it is a good theory which recognizes how the past accumulates continuously without ever really dying, I do have one question: Are you still the same person if you lose your memory?


Well, functions never change right? So no? 
By my definition probably not though. You are shaped by everything around you though. Erase that, what is left?


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## Stendhal (May 31, 2014)

Prostituta said:


> Well, functions never change right? So no?
> By my definition probably not though. You are shaped by everything around you though. Erase that, what is left?


And that is the essence of the question (I don't really believe the non-self argument, but it's good to play the other side). 

As for lose of memory, I think there is one thing which could save the existence of the self is that the genetics are still the same, and presumably, some of the neuron-connections as well.


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## Purrfessor (Jul 30, 2013)

Prostituta said:


> What type of people do you usually run into?


People with no confidence, minimal optimism, and always fixated on a "problem".


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## Prostituta (Jun 18, 2014)

Stendhal said:


> And that is the essence of the question (I don't really believe the non-self argument, but it's good to play the other side).
> 
> As for lose of memory, I think there is one thing which could save the existence of the self is that the genetics are still the same, and presumably, some of the neuron-connections as well.


What exactly is 'self' then?


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## Prostituta (Jun 18, 2014)

Stelliferous said:


> People with no confidence, minimal optimism, and always fixated on a "problem".


That's a shame. If people have problems though, it's hard to ignore. It'll always be there until they do something to fix it. So I guess I can't blame them for being that way.


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## Purrfessor (Jul 30, 2013)

Prostituta said:


> That's a shame. If people have problems though, it's hard to ignore. It'll always be there until they do something to fix it. So I guess I can't blame them for being that way.


They convince themself that there is a problem when in actuality the problem is their attitude.


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