# Differentiating between a T-type with a strong F and an F-type with a strong T



## apprehended (Sep 24, 2010)

This question is mostly for my own personal benefit, but I figured others could benefit from it as well: how can you differentiate between someone who is an F-type and has a strong T and T-Type with a strong F?

The reason I ask is because I have been trying to figure out my type for a while now and I keep disagreeing with the results that the test usually give me; I usually test as an IXTJ. After reading more about the functions and the IXTJ types as well as spending some time in the forums on here it seems that these types:


Generally seem to offend others unintentionally as they don't tend to take other's feelings into account, but just seem to take in objective data to make a logical decision. 

Generally don't seem to be in touch with their feelings or know what they are feeling.

Seem to have a need to quantify and measure things before they will be believed or accepted as true.


So I disagree with this result because:


I have not had issues with offending people. In fact most people would describe me as kind, considerate, and a teddy-bear._ Edit: I figure that if I was a T-type who had developed a strong F I would have ended up offending people unintentionally at some point in my life, but I have not had this issue._ However they would also describe me as cool, calm, and even logical.

I am in touch with and know what I am feeling.

I do not have a need to quantify and measure things to be able to accept them as true.

My best friend in high school was an INTJ, so I found myself constantly having to justify things to him using reasoning other than "it's wrong." My mentor is also an EXTJ, and while he has learned how to not offend people and be nice I still have found myself having to justify claims to him.

My current consideration for my type is INFP since I identify a lot with making decisions based on subjective values and tend to go to great lengths to keep those values in tact and get quite offended when those values are trespassed. I'm also good with brainstorming and finding multiple ways things can work out. I find myself constantly imagining different ways things could work out.

My biggest disagreement with INFP though is that most of the descriptions have them as being procrastinators that don't finish most of what they start, which I don't relate to much at all. I feel that I need to finish what I start; if I don't I feel like a failure. I also tend to start things before the last minute so that I am not rushing around to finish it and thus can do a good job on whatever it is.

My theory is that the Te influence from the two people above coupled along with the fact that I have been extremely busy with classes and working two jobs over the last year or so has forced me become very structured and logical in order to pass my classes and keep my jobs (on a side note: is this last sentence too long and awkward? My professor sent a paper back to me today saying that my sentences were too wordy and were confusing to read. I thought they were fine and not wordy or confusing at all). This is what is causing me to test an IXTJ and makes me unable to relate to the procrastination and disorganization part of the INFP description.

Now to me this all makes perfect sense, but I was wondering what you all thought about this.


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## Dental Floss Tycoon (Apr 4, 2011)

I can relate to all of this. Everyone who I know and that is also familiar with the MBTI theory says I'm probably an INTJ, or another TJ type. However, I have never had issues offending people. Actually, everyone says I'm diplomatic, understanding and empathetic since I was a child. And I believe this is true. An INTP friend of mine says I'm so tactful and polite that I couldn't be INTJ, since people of this type are the most prone to bad-assary trolling, by definition.

Being in touch with my own feelings towards people... hm, I don't know. In college, for instance, I act diplomatically, but I find it a bit hard to say whether I like a person or not. But on the other hand I generally have intense feelings for people I like. With my girlfriend I'm almost always acting like a teddy-bear. It's even funny: I use to be so serious, impersonal and then with her I look like a ridiculously romantic teenager. She says I could be an INFJ, for being so tactful and sensitive to her emotional wills and needs. But the main impression people have on me is of a TJ person, indeed. It could be due to the fact I'm an enneagram's type 1, though (I'm not sure if you know the theory). And it confuses me. I know Jung's psychological type for about 5 years now and I still can't accurately tell whether I'm an F or T type. 

Maybe this theory of yours could be a light on the end of the tunel for me. But I guess it conflicts with Jung and MBTI's original postulates, for it goes against the whole idea of dichotomy. Something that might explain what you are reporting is the so called tertiary loop. Have you read about it? I'm not well familiarized with it, but the main idea is that one may be so much in touch with their tertiary function (Fi, in the case of IxTJ's) that it may look like a secondary or even primary function, generating the possibility of one getting confused about his or her type.

Believe me, it's fairly common to see INTJ's thinking they are INFP's and vice-versa.


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## Up and Away (Mar 5, 2011)

Also just read your other post: http://personalitycafe.com/whats-my...hats-my-type-form-filled-out.html#post1103796

I'd say INFP. Don't be sidetracked if you don't have the same problems as many INFP's here, because MBTI is about preference, not actual skills, coping ability, or success and confidence. 

Also @_Pseudonimum_ ; perhaps you will indulge my mini mission to answer your sig question:

How do you feel about feeling vulnerable around other people that you trust, and talking about your vulnerabilities?

Now here is the kicker question: Do you consider sharing your vulnerabilities with others, an important part of your ideal for the future?

If it makes you uncomfortable but you want to, say an undeveloped to some degree, but if you dont want to now or later, either a very very unhealthy F, or simply a T. If it doesnt make you uncomfortable, and you find it important, than probably simply an F.

This response took me 15 minutes lol.


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## Dental Floss Tycoon (Apr 4, 2011)

Souled In said:


> Also just read your other post: http://personalitycafe.com/whats-my...hats-my-type-form-filled-out.html#post1103796Also @_Pseudonimum_ ; perhaps you will indulge my mini mission to answer your sig question:
> 
> How do you feel about feeling vulnerable around other people that you trust, and talking about your vulnerabilities?
> 
> ...


Hm, interesting. I don't feel like talking about my vulnerabilities. I need to really trust the person in order to do it. But when I do, I'll talk about them freely and easily. With my girlfriend, I do it all the time, for instance. And I believe it's something good to me, for I strongly hold my emotions and impulses. Releasing them is like taking a heavy load of my back. But the great majority of people who know me have no idea about my vulnerabilities. Some close friends of mine say I'm secure, firm, self-confident, straight-forward... and I was amazed to know it, because I believe I'm the opposite. But it seems like it's a general impression on me, while on the underneath I'm actually instable and ***** (if I wasn't anonymous here, I'd never say that. It hurts to admit, yeah).

This is an F for me then? xD


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## Up and Away (Mar 5, 2011)

Pseudonimum said:


> Hm, interesting. I don't feel like talking about my vulnerabilities. I need to really trust the person in order to do it. But when I do, I'll talk about them freely and easily. With my girlfriend, I do it all the time, for instance. And I believe it's something good to me, for I strongly hold my emotions and impulses. Releasing them is like taking a heavy load of my back. But the great majority of people who know me have no idea about my vulnerabilities. Some close friends of mine say I'm secure, firm, self-confident, straight-forward... and I was amazed to know it, because I believe I'm the opposite. But it seems like it's a general impression on me, while on the underneath I'm actually instable and ***** (if I wasn't anonymous here, I'd never say that. It hurts to admit, yeah).
> 
> This is an F for me then? xD


[email protected] *****. In war time, that might be somewhat counterproductive for survival, but in order to survive in modern society, we'd be idiots to not use our emotional side of our brain, in relation to empathy towards others. The vulnerability necessary to create connections (that can actually help our survival) often contributes to a more relaxed posture and mannerisms, which can be associated with certain orientations, but we don't have to fall victim to naive labels, haha.

As far as T or F, consider the ENFP vs. the INFJ. Ni Fe vs. Ne Fi. Same order and type of function, and the only difference is the ENFP goes outward first and inward second. An ENFP is actually extroverted more so because they just "have to be exploring with their Ne" than because it meshes good with their Fi and sentimentality to other people. Remove the Fi and put Ti, and they are exploring caves or the the vatican archives instead of being social butterflies. (just a guess)

That being said, reverse the order, and you are going inward with meanings and carry the instability and insecurity of being introverted, but express yourself outwardly through people (I'm guessing) otherwise would you really sit there that long for a heart felt conversation?

Perhaps, and I'm not sure, but my best guess is INFJ: http://personalitycafe.com/infj-articles/31207-iei-socionics-description-ni-fe.html

Good luck to ya. I'm down for more discussion if u've got deeper to dig.


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## apprehended (Sep 24, 2010)

Thanks for the responses. @Souled In and @Pseudonimum

I have read up on the dominant-tertiary loops and looked at the thread many times to see if I could find myself in one of those right now and to see which one is most like what I may have experienced in the past. I ended up ruling out all the EXXX types because those all seemed to involved acting out and I usually withdraw when I have issues. I eventually settled on Fi/Si or Si/Fi being the most accurate for me; it describes me pretty dang accurately when I was in high school. I didn't really find myself currently in one of them though.

One of my friends who is familiar with MBTI thinks I'm an IXTJ saying that the hardest one for him was N or S; for me N or S was always the easiest aside from E/I. He said that he saw a lot of similarities between my EXTJ mentor and I, saying that we were both detailed oriented, but he knew I was introverted and not extroverted. That's all he mentioned as his criteria, if he had more he didn't say. To me it makes perfect sense that there would be similarities between my mentor and I since I have known him for around 10 years (around the time when I was freshman in high school) and have spent much time talking to and interacting with him. 

However I know that we are not even close when it comes to cognitive functions. He is so much more driven and critical then I will ever be, and it seems to come naturally to him. Whereas for me I have to convince myself that something is worth doing before I do it; the same goes for me being critical of something. He also seems to have problems initially with some of my abstract thinking and theories on things as there really isn't a way to empirically prove some of them. To him this empirical evidence seems to matter, but to me it doesn't. Although I've learned that if I want to convince him of one of my theories I need to make some sort of appeal to empirical evidence to support it.

I didn't relate much to the ISTJ need to relate things to things they have already experienced. I also didn't relate much to their need for structure and their supposedly being upset when that structure is changed. My INTJ friend and what seems to be the majority of INTJs here seem to share a sort of contempt for people, which I don't relate to, but wasn't going to rule out INTJ on that basis alone. I ended up ruling out INTJ and INFJ on the basis of me not relating to Ni much after I had read up on the functions some more. Initially Ni seemed likely, but after reading up on the other functions and thinking about myself I realized that Ni was not my dominant function.

I have heard of the enneagram, but haven't looked into it much, so I don't know what its all about.


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## Up and Away (Mar 5, 2011)

That makes sense. How about ISTP or ISFP then? Sometimes the functions can be misleading when we study them seperately.

http://personalitycafe.com/istp-articles/4220-best-istp-description.html

Its pretty hard to tell with you. Do you feel naturally light when you write this stuff, or kind of outside yourself?


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## apprehended (Sep 24, 2010)

Souled In said:


> Its pretty hard to tell with you. Do you feel naturally light when you write this stuff, or kind of outside yourself?


@Souled In

I'm not sure what you mean by "naturally light, or kind of outside yourself," but I'll take a guess. When I wrote that it wasn't really hard at all for me to do, it just kind of flowed naturally. I went back and edited a few things before I posted and proofread to be sure that there were no mistakes or anything in it, but it didn't take much effort on my part. I felt very much myself while doing it. Things like that as well as what I'm about to write here also make me question whether Fi might be my dominant function. 

When I initially looked at ISFP and ISTP I dismissed both of them on the basis of Se being a desire to commune with the physical environment around someone; a desire to be outside and do things physically like walk, run, camp, ride motorcycles, race cars, build stuff, and use power tools. I knew that did not fit with me much at all and thus didn't look much further into either of those two types. However after reading the thread that you linked and doing a quick analysis of all those descriptions in that thread ISTP actually seems to fit better than any other type so far. My main reason for choosing Fi was that I tend to be very loyal to my values, but I don't tend to relate to the whole saving the world mentality that F's seem to have.

I know that I can break down almost anything (although some things take longer than others to understand) and explain it again in simple terms and can do so rather easily, which is a big driving factor in me considering Ti as a dominant function. I don't relate much to the abstractness that INTP's tend to exude in their thinking and sometimes find it rather annoying and uninteresting. Like I said though, a big factor in my doubting myself being a T-type was that I don't tend to offend people very often. The offending thing though seems to be less of an issue with ISTP's than other T-types at first glance, so that has me considering ISTP very strongly right now.

My basic conundrum was this: I know that I can break down complex systems easily and rebuild it and explain it to others in simple terms as well as analyze things, but many T-types seem to offend people unnecessarily and I haven't had this problem. So am I an F-type who has just developed Ti/Te through my experiences in life? Or am I a T-type who somehow doesn't have an issue with offending people and has learned how to be polite/diplomatic/etc?

The thing I will need to do now is read up on Se some and see what it is all about and then go from there as I honestly haven't looked into it much.


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## Up and Away (Mar 5, 2011)

Only Fe users are naturally going to become one with the group. Fi, Te, or Ti dominants, will have to do a bit more skill learning to not offend people.

I was wrong to say ENTP's might be exploring caves, because, that would be more ESTP.

Also, what you say about Se makes sense.

How about ENTP: Ne Ti http://personalitycafe.com/entp-art...xtraverted-intuitive-thinking-perceiving.html (can be a very introverted extrovert)

Or ISTJ Si Te: http://personalitycafe.com/istj-articles/1-portrait-istj-introverted-sensing-thinking-judging.html

@_apprehended_ 

EDIT: Take this please: http://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/mmdi/questionnaire/ @Paragon found it.


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## apprehended (Sep 24, 2010)

For now I've just taken the test. I will have to look at those descriptions (ISTJ/ENTP) later.

Here is a screenshot of the results:








I didn't screenshot the other pages as they were just explaining the results of the test.

@Souled In


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## PrinceinExile (Dec 29, 2010)

I'm a INFP with a strong T personally. I can be hyper logical and critical, without my feeling function getting in the way but that is trained, I didn't become like that over night.


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## apprehended (Sep 24, 2010)

PrinceinExile said:


> I'm a INFP with a strong T personally. I can be hyper logical and critical, without my feeling function getting in the way but that is trained, I didn't become like that over night.


Now see this is exactly why I question myself being an F-type because I didn't have to train the logical and critical part of myself to not interfere with anything. I actually feel like I've had to train my F more than my T in my life; my T feels more natural than my F, but I have issues finding a T-type that describes me well.

@Souled In I know that test doesn't reflect this well at all, but ENTP is an interesting possibility if they can be an "introverted" extrovert. From the description you linked the following parts resonate with me: 


> With Extraverted Intuition dominating their personality, the ENTP's primary interest in life is understanding the world that they live in.





> They generally understand things quickly and with great depth. Accordingly, they are quite flexible and adapt well to a wide range of tasks. They are good at most anything that interests them.





> ENTPs are idea people. Their perceptive abilities cause them to see possibilities everywhere. They get excited and enthusiastic about their ideas...





> ENTPs are less interested in developing plans of actions or making decisions than they are in generating possibilities and ideas. Following through on the implementation of an idea is usually a chore to the ENTP.


My biggest argument against an extroverted type was that in general I figured extroverts tend to be more outgoing, even if they're not people oriented extroverts. I'm not real outgoing, but that in and of itself doesn't seem to be a good measurement of extroversion. I figured that if I was an extrovert that I was a shy extrovert. I do enjoy being around people and it is energizing (depending on the activity), but for a while I wouldn't say anything in a group because I was afraid of looking/sounding stupid or of them making fun of/belittling me or something like that. 

I'll have to look into the ENTP thing some more, it seems like it could be possible.


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## Up and Away (Mar 5, 2011)

apprehended said:


> I'll have to look into the ENTP thing some more, it seems like it could be possible.


I agree. Ever thought about law school? Just curious.


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## apprehended (Sep 24, 2010)

Not really. When I was deciding careers after high school I decided to take the IT route as I was interested more in than that and was already somewhat proficient when it came to computers. Law school would have required me to learn debate and speaking, which wasn't easy for me at that time (Looking back, I was pretty much a psychological pretzel in high school). Plus at that time IT was a booming industry (2004), so I figured it would be the easiest career path. 

But looking back, yeah, maybe I should have considered it. :tongue:


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## Up and Away (Mar 5, 2011)

Hmmm..
..
.


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## apprehended (Sep 24, 2010)

Souled In said:


> Hmmm..
> ..
> .



What are you hmmming about?


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## Up and Away (Mar 5, 2011)

The 2 ENTP's, that I think are ENTP's I know, one is a marketer from home, that has parties with just women and himself, no guys allowed except a few. Like 25 hot women and himself. Crazy huh.

The other ENTP talks to way too young girls on the internet because he lacks that social nack, and is in law school.

Behavior really is only a partially good indicator for these types, lol.

They can be so different.

Take this enneagram test, and maybe your type can give us an indicator.

INFP's are usually type 4, for example.

Personality Types - Enneagram and Myers Briggs


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## apprehended (Sep 24, 2010)

Well I took that test, but based on my quick research I don't think the results are going to be of much help.









According to this post on typologycentral and the site that test was from any MBTI type can come out as type 6 on the enneagram.



> 6 seems to be more related with a lack of stability and certitude in childhood or youth than with any specific type


This statement would be pretty accurate of my childhood and teenage years. I'm only 25 now and have made significant progress towards overcoming many of these issues, but there are still some residual effects.

So my basic conclusion is that this result isn't really that helpful as it seems that any MBTI type can type as 6 on the enneagram. If ENTP is my MBTI type then it seems as I would be a rare sort of ENTP, but, as Gregory House sometimes says, "Rare is good. I like rare."



> The 2 ENTP's, that I think are ENTP's I know, one is a marketer from home, that has parties with just women and himself, no guys allowed except a few. Like 25 hot women and himself. Crazy huh


I don't relate much to this, nor could I see myself ever pulling something like this off. Crazy indeed. Awesome, but crazy. I'm kind of jealous that he could ever pull something like that off. I don't even know 25 hot women...:crying::tongue:



> The other ENTP talks to way too young girls on the internet because he lacks that social nack, and is in law school.


Lacking that social nack I can relate to, but my parents raised me with morals and behavior like that certainly violates those. Even if I was extremely lonely I don't think I could bring myself to do something like this.

I spent a little bit of time looking at the ENTP forum and I don't relate much to some of the wild behavior that some of them seem to exhibit, but that doesn't rule out ENTP in my book. I certainly did space out multiple times while taking that test, while doing reading for one of my classes earlier today, while typing this post, and while doing research on the enneagram theory. So basically I haven't ruled ENTP out yet. 

I had a nice pretty post typed, but accidentally hit the backspace key and lost everything. So I had to do all this over again :frustrating:


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## Up and Away (Mar 5, 2011)

lol.. kewl; heres some more

6-Loyalist19​
ISFJ(6.1), ISTJ(1.8) 
I, S, J, SJ​MBTI and Enneagram: Their Relationship and Complementary Use

"The 361/613/136 is an incredibly discerning, focused and responsible type. She said they will be the most inclined to want to live up to a successful image by societal standards and to focus on duty in order to feel valuable. She called it the "true taskmaster" that is inclined to create structure and rules that others in society can follow and to implement them. She said the blindspot is that one can be so overly focused on the rules that they can lose touch with their own values and feelings in deference to what is acceptable or societally defined. This is the type at risk of becoming robotic (along with the 135/351/513). However the 135/351/513 is less relational than the 361/613/136."


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## apprehended (Sep 24, 2010)

Thanks.

So my own personal conclusion regarding the enneagram is this: it is probably helpful for personal growth, but its correlation to MBTI types is questionable since no one seems to agree on how the two different systems correlate. Personally I'm not putting much stock in the enneagram at this point.


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## Arclight (Feb 10, 2010)

I made this post in another thread about EQ because an NT seemed quite pleased and maybe a bit surprised with their high score.

I am thinking it might be useful in this thread. 



Arclight said:


> That's because T and F are, a way of observing, interaction styles and place value on information. They are not measurements of intelligence or emotional capacity. These are measured by IQ and EQ , which is why they are separate systems to Typology.
> Neither Jung, nor Briggs and Myers ever made a connection alluding to such as being included in their systems.
> I think these myths began in these online communities.
> Thinking and feeling are confusing terms. In Typology they refer to rational functions and _both_ are subjective. T tends to view the world as an object, F tends the view the world as a subject. T tends to take in information from a detached perspective and places an impersonal value on it, whilst F tends to take in information through interaction and places a personal value on it. F tends to consider the emotional impact of a judgement whereas T doesn't.
> ...


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## Up and Away (Mar 5, 2011)

Arclight said:


> I made this post in another thread about EQ because an NT seemed quite pleased and maybe a bit surprised with their high score.
> 
> I am thinking it might be useful in this thread.


You mention the ways T and F view the world, T as object, F as subject.

That would mean that T's view themselves as an object, rather than a subject.

It doesn't matter that our thoughts are "subjective," because simply because we have thoughts that come from what we call "us," does not mean we consciously "view" ourselves as a subject ever.

That being said, can you clarify more about how a T can view themselves as an object?

The typical subject object problem is that, ourself, is the subject, and we might call everything else the object, unless we relate ourselves to those objects, with some sort of personification.

The question is, how much do we relate to it?

Sure, T's tend to relate less to it, but why?

Is there not a deeper description to get at, and use, to describe the difference between T and F?

Sure that is one way of describing it, but there are countless ways and correlations.


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## mockingbird girl (Apr 26, 2011)

If there are countless ways to describe it, then there is surely a deeper way...and then one deeper yet...and on and on. When does the dissection, the defining and redefining, cease to be useful? I only ask this because I have grown more and more frustrated with what feels like constant arguing about the undefinable. (I could have kept this to myself, sorry)

From a T-type with a strong T


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## Up and Away (Mar 5, 2011)

mockingbird girl said:


> If there are countless ways to describe it, then there is surely a deeper way...and then one deeper yet...and on and on. When does the dissection, the defining and redefining, cease to be useful? I only ask this because I have grown more and more frustrated with what feels like constant arguing about the undefinable. (I could have kept this to myself, sorry)
> 
> From a T-type with a strong T


I enjoy it.

Its not like in the debate or philosophy forum when people just start calling your posts you put time into wastes of time and careless.

This subforum has been pretty cool for me personally.


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## raz (May 26, 2011)

Personally, as an ISTJ, I resent and greatly dislike the whole, "a T type will always have the problem of offending people." I'm not saying I'm perfect at it. I always offend people, multiple times a week. Why? Because I'm honest and I use my own personal subjectivity to gauge whether or not I should be honest about the situation or sugar coat what I'm saying. If I feel what I'm about to say is unnecessary, then I change it mostly because I'm directing the conversation in a way I'd prefer. To say that T types are incapable of taking into account other people's feelings is closed minded and ignorant. Just because I look at the world logically and analytically doesn't make me less of a human being. 

Does this make me a T with a strong F? Possibly. Following logic all the time is foolish. Following your feelings all the time is naive. Does this really even apply to Function Theory? I don't really even know. My hobbies put me in the company of tons of T's. My immediate family has 2 ESFJs, an ESFP and ENFJ. I learn how to balance from integrating both worlds into my own perspective.


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## noaydi (Feb 18, 2011)

my guess : 
Fe dom are really recognizible they are master in social sphere.
When Fe last you get the impression of akward F expression and the subject isnt really aware of that. But without the value-judgmental aspect of Fi : they are more inclined to judge if consistant or not (Ti dom).

Fi dom take long time processing emotion in term of good and bad, but often akward in social interaction especially with Fe. Spend ressource inadequatly due to their weak Te, never stop to use energy for nothing when working.
Fi last idk, but their behavior are really grounded due to their Te dom. They never seems to spend any ressource ineficiencely.

Generally F dom are obstinate and somewhat bad with the two attitude of T, and T dom are obstinate and somewhat bad with the two attitude of F

I dont know really if strong t for f or strong f for t exist... Perhaps an individual place more value to contact the reality through T even if F dom but they anyway suck at it compared to T dom.


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## apprehended (Sep 24, 2010)

raz said:


> Personally, as an ISTJ, I resent and greatly dislike the whole, "a T type will always have the problem of offending people." I'm not saying I'm perfect at it. I always offend people, multiple times a week. Why? Because I'm honest and I use my own personal subjectivity to gauge whether or not I should be honest about the situation or sugar coat what I'm saying. If I feel what I'm about to say is unnecessary, then I change it mostly because I'm directing the conversation in a way I'd prefer. To say that T types are incapable of taking into account other people's feelings is closed minded and ignorant. Just because I look at the world logically and analytically doesn't make me less of a human being.


I wasn't trying to imply that T's can't take the feelings of others into account; it was merely an observation of the experiences of T's in my life and what I have read other T's reporting on this forum. I thought it relevant because it wasn't something that I have personally experienced much (if I have done so no one seems to act like it or has told me), but it seems as though many T's have, hence why it is mentioned in my question.

If there are other things I stated about a certain type/function that are incorrect anyone can feel free to correct them. I certainly would not consider myself an expert on the different functions and types at this point.



raz said:


> Does this make me a T with a strong F? Possibly. Following logic all the time is foolish. Following your feelings all the time is naive. Does this really even apply to Function Theory? I don't really even know. My hobbies put me in the company of tons of T's. My immediate family has 2 ESFJs, an ESFP and ENFJ. I learn how to balance from integrating both worlds into my own perspective.


Personally I think that someone's experiences in life determine much more about their personality than their cognitive functions determine. I think the functions certainly factor into personality, but what they process is more important than how they process it I think. Of course this is just my personal theory, so I wouldn't put too much stock in it at this point as I don't know how correct it is.


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## William I am (May 20, 2011)

Helllo. I came to this thread because I am split on the tests between T and F, but I strongly identify with ENTP. 
I've developed my F skills a lot, especially in the last few years, and I'm not that intensely T or F on any tests.

I can tell I'm not ENFP though because the descriptions are almost... but not quite me. 
I was mistyped as INTJ before and just went with it because the description was almost me. But it was never right. I re-took the test and came up ENTP. Then I acted like an ENTP and spent hours researching... long story short, I read the descriptions on @εmptε's thread here literally creeped me out and made the hair on the back of my neck stand up. 

Have you read through a whole bunch of the longer and more drawn out descriptions? Especially in the Kiersey Temperament section? That's what made it very clear to me what type I was. It wasn't the issues or the strengths, it was the innate habits that I had that were being described to me. It felt like somebody had been recording my thoughts and actions all my life and just starting making (accurate) generalizations.

I still identify partially with other types, but the ENTP thoroughly resonates for me.


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## apprehended (Sep 24, 2010)

William I am said:


> Helllo. I came to this thread because I am split on the tests between T and F, but I strongly identify with ENTP.
> I've developed my F skills a lot, especially in the last few years, and I'm not that intensely T or F on any tests.
> 
> I can tell I'm not ENFP though because the descriptions are almost... but not quite me.
> ...


Thanks for the input. I have found the videos helpful also. Maybe I'll just make one of those and post it here. lol.

I still have yet to read a description that I can look at and say, "Wow, that is totally me!" I think the descriptions tend to portray an ideal portrait of the types sometimes. I think that they tend to assume no major issues in the life of the person when in reality someone may have to overcome some. For me personally I have had to deal with issues of shyness and really an overall lack of parenting (my parents were there and provided physically for me, but didn't do hardly anything in the way of actual parenting; my mom admitted this to me), so I think a big issue for me personally is being psychologically healthy enough to be able to type. 

Since ENTP was suggested I went through and reevaluated my extraversion and introversion. I realized that I was defining extraversion and introversion more along the lines of sociability rather than where someone draws energy from. After thinking about this some more and about myself I'm beginning to lean more towards extrovert than introvert on the basis that I need to be around people to feel good. I can only go a few days without having any significant social interaction, being alone for too long just feels awful. After I do something with a group of friends I always feel better than had I spent the night by myself. I don't mind my alone time though, I just can't have too much alone time.

One of my biggest reasons for favoring Fi as a dominant or auxiliary function is that I tend to make decisions and judgments based on my subjective values. So when a new idea or piece of information is presented my first reaction, after understanding the idea or information, is to figure out if this aligns with my subjective values or opposes my subjective values. After I have decided where this new idea or information falls in relation to my values then I move on to coming up with logical reasons and/or proof to support this view, if necessary. If I need to come up with a logical reason or proof to support a stance I can usually do so pretty quickly, but I think it's something that I only do when necessary.

So as I've thought about this issue some more and analyzed myself a bit I'm thinking that Fi is either dominant or auxiliary for me since I think that new information and ideas first get sent through my Fi and then get sent to Ti or Te if necessary. Basically I think that I use my Ti and/or Te in support of Fi, to make sure that it's views are kept in tact, and not to explore an idea or test the logic of it. Debates do not energize me, but I do feel capable of supporting my views if they are challenged.

The issue for me, and probably others, is that it feels really efficient for me to use my T in a situation. As I think about this though I think that it has been developed because I end up using it a lot at work (I work in IT), at school (doing web development), and during my personal time (I love philosophy). So I may seem as T sometimes, but ultimately I think my Fi comes before my T in many situations. 

Does anyone have any thoughts on the above analysis? Hopefully I am on the right track.


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## William I am (May 20, 2011)

I'm no expert, but I'll comment like I am anyway... not really, just keep in mind that my advice goes best with a few grains of salt.

The E vs. I sounds right to me. I can do ok by myself, but I rarely have any fun if nobody else is around.

As for F vs. T it sounds like you Feel things out through your own values, so that sounds introverted to me... I'd say Fi then...?

Have you taken the new Cognitive Type quiz? That might help you out. It comes at it from a different angle. 
I used to work IT too, and I would think through things - but it was always using Thinking to justify what my iNtuition told me. 

As for N vs. S, can you look at a situation as a whole, and just instantly know something? Or do you have to have concrete details to make an observation?

What about when someone tells you about something that's less than ideal at work or school or in the world at large? Do you react first with whether or not it's just, or do you first think about how the situation can be approached or handled as is?

I'm gonna go drink a beer in the shower and go to sleep  Have a good one.


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## apprehended (Sep 24, 2010)

I had taken the cognitive function quiz earlier and Fi always came out on top for me with Ne second or close to it, but I took it again and it looks like the format of the test changed since I took it initially, maybe not though. Since E/I is the one category I am not sure of I answered the last question both ways to see how the results would differ:

*Extroverted:*
Introverted Feeling (Fi) |||||||||||||||||||| 9.35
Extroverted Intuition (Ne) ||||||||||||||| 6.85
Introverted Intuition (Ni) |||||||||||||| 6.32
Extroverted Feeling (Fe) |||||||||| 4.3
Introverted Sensation (Si) ||||| 1.93
Extroverted Sensation (Se) |||| 1.4
Extroverted Thinking (Te) || -0.99
Introverted Thinking (Ti) || -1.16

*Introverted:*
Introverted Feeling (Fi) ||||||||||||||||||||||||| 11.85
Introverted Intuition (Ni) |||||||||||||| 6.32
Extroverted Intuition (Ne) |||||||||| 4.35
Extroverted Feeling (Fe) |||||||||| 4.3
Introverted Sensation (Si) ||||| 1.93
Extroverted Sensation (Se) |||| 1.4
Extroverted Thinking (Te) || -0.99
Introverted Thinking (Ti) || -1.16

Interestingly my T scores are really low. After thinking about this for a while since creating this thread and taking some time to read some of the T sub-forums to see how they view reality this makes a lot of sense. It seems that T's tend to view reality logically and systematically and they try to make everything logical and systematic because otherwise it is difficult for them to understand things. If this is true then I definitely do not relate to this view of reality at all. I view reality more in terms of right and wrong and possibilities rather than trying to systematize and order things so that I can make sense of them. 

Alright so I think I can put the T/F question to rest finally. roud:

The one category I was sure of was E/I and now it's the only category that I'm unsure of. :tongue: So now I need to go figure that out. I think I'm going to keep a journal for a while and record how I feel during and after certain activities. Hopefully this will give me some data to analyze and give me more of an idea of E/I. Plus I'll go lurk the ENFP forum some and see if that can shed some light on things. 

I'm thinking NFP at this point for sure.


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## William I am (May 20, 2011)

Sweet! I'm glad you got one figured out  See you around the forum


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## Up and Away (Mar 5, 2011)

apprehended said:


> I had taken the cognitive function quiz earlier and Fi always came out on top for me with Ne second or close to it, but I took it again and it looks like the format of the test changed since I took it initially, maybe not though. Since E/I is the one category I am not sure of I answered the last question both ways to see how the results would differ:
> 
> *Extroverted:*
> Introverted Feeling (Fi) |||||||||||||||||||| 9.35
> ...


Haha. INFP. Welcome


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## apprehended (Sep 24, 2010)

Souled In said:


> Haha. INFP. Welcome


I don't feel like much of an introvert right now though. Although these last 6 months I have been extremely busy working 2 jobs and taking 5 classes at school, so there was very little time for me to actually introvert, maybe 2-3 hours each day max. Comparing how I feel now to how I felt prior to the last 6 months though I feel much better now than I did then. 

One thing I bear in mind when determining all this is that I was not psychologically healthy during my teenage and adolescent years (I'm 25 now). I know how I acted back then, but I also know how I felt back then, and the majority of the time it was horribly and depressed mostly because I spent a lot of time alone. Now I would say that I am much more healthy psychologically than I was then and I find myself not wanting to spend time alone and I feel depressed and sad when I do spend time alone. I want to go out and do something with people and when I can't find something to do with others I get all sad and depressed. And when I do something with others I usually don't feel drained, but charged and energetic and happy.

Basically I'm seeing too many extroverted tendencies in myself right now to be comfortable with INFP. It might be just a phase, but until I phase out of it I don't feel comfortable with INFP. I don't really feel comfortable with ENFP at this point either though. I feel comfortable with NFP though!

Knowing my past though and how I felt, and my present and how I feel, E/I is a HUGE question for me at this point. I actually feel more comfortable with E at this point than I. The test obviously shows Fi > Ne, but right now I really don't like spending time alone and would rather spend it with others and feel better when I do. Maybe it is just a phase though.

Anyway I'm rambling, so I'll stop now. :tongue:


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## Up and Away (Mar 5, 2011)

apprehended said:


> I don't feel like much of an introvert right now though. Although these last 6 months I have been extremely busy working 2 jobs and taking 5 classes at school, so there was very little time for me to actually introvert, maybe 2-3 hours each day max. Comparing how I feel now to how I felt prior to the last 6 months though I feel much better now than I did then.
> 
> One thing I bear in mind when determining all this is that I was not psychologically healthy during my teenage and adolescent years (I'm 25 now). I know how I acted back then, but I also know how I felt back then, and the majority of the time it was horribly and depressed mostly because I spent a lot of time alone. Now I would say that I am much more healthy psychologically than I was then and I find myself not wanting to spend time alone and I feel depressed and sad when I do spend time alone. I want to go out and do something with people and when I can't find something to do with others I get all sad and depressed. And when I do something with others I usually don't feel drained, but charged and energetic and happy.
> 
> ...


I hear ya. Though, doing external activities, doesn't mean you aren't being intraverted while doing them. You can even be social and be intraverted. Also, you talk just like an INFP. But yea I agree that it can be hard to tell, especially when we are unhealthy from a painful past.


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## apprehended (Sep 24, 2010)

Souled In said:


> I hear ya. Though, doing external activities, doesn't mean you aren't being intraverted while doing them. You can even be social and be intraverted. Also, you talk just like an INFP. But yea I agree that it can be hard to tell, especially when we are unhealthy from a painful past.


Part of the problem also is my current environment I think. I'm quite confident that Ne + Fi in some order are my preferences, but many of my friends and social contacts are sensors. That's not to hate sensors, I just enjoy talking about abstract things more than sensory things. 

Like I'll say something abstract/philosophical to them and they'll just give me a blank stare that says, "lolwut?" And I'll want them to say something back, but they just don't, and it's frustrating. :frustrating:


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## Up and Away (Mar 5, 2011)

Cool cool. Hey you see William's avatar up there? Extraverts tend to do that lol. I would most likely Never do that haha. If it was a pic of me, it'd be showing much more than just the face, or the face back away from the camera.


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## apprehended (Sep 24, 2010)

True extraverts due tend to love the spotlight. There's all sorts of crazies on the internet though, I would think that anyone would be cautious about putting their real picture up. 

I don't need to be the center of attention, but I hate feeling excluded from a group. I need to at least feel like a part of it otherwise I'll feel rejected and depressed for a bit.

I think I've got a ways to go in determining my type though. I think I'm just going to do some more research on the types/functions and some more careful self-observation and see what it yields. I was having a big issue with T/F and that is pretty well settled at this point. I was always pretty sure of N also. My J/P usually comes out pretty even. Sometimes I feel like a J and other times more like a P, so I need to figure out this for sure along with E/I. Some of the ENFJ descriptions are eerily accurate for me.


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## William I am (May 20, 2011)

Souled In said:


> Cool cool. Hey you see William's avatar up there? Extraverts tend to do that lol. I would most likely Never do that haha. If it was a pic of me, it'd be showing much more than just the face, or the face back away from the camera.


Haha Ooo attention? I can has some?  What did I do with the picture?

PS INFP's are some of my favorite people. At least partially because they're like puzzles I can't solve :x


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## Up and Away (Mar 5, 2011)

apprehended said:


> True extraverts due tend to love the spotlight. There's all sorts of crazies on the internet though, I would think that anyone would be cautious about putting their real picture up.
> 
> I don't need to be the center of attention, but I hate feeling excluded from a group. I need to at least feel like a part of it otherwise I'll feel rejected and depressed for a bit.
> 
> I think I've got a ways to go in determining my type though. I think I'm just going to do some more research on the types/functions and some more careful self-observation and see what it yields. I was having a big issue with T/F and that is pretty well settled at this point. I was always pretty sure of N also. My J/P usually comes out pretty even. Sometimes I feel like a J and other times more like a P, so I need to figure out this for sure along with E/I. Some of the ENFJ descriptions are eerily accurate for me.


When J and P comes out even, that means it is using a socionic description of the J/P dichotomy. INFP's are actually J dominant. Myers Briggs switched it around and confused everyone. Although we might act with our extraverted function, our dominant life isn't extraverted, its what is dominant, our intraverted J. (INFP's that it.)

That being said, Fi Ne and Ni Fe are a world of difference apart, so it shouldn't be hard to tell which one you are.

Most INFP's hate being excluded from the group.

Fi dominant, seeks to create an ideal that is intimately personal. Usually that ideal includes being connected to many people.

That doesn't mean we can ever adopt the Fe mentality though, because we trust OUR FI ideal more than the group.

Trusting the group ideal more than our own is Fe, though, if someones first function is a perceiving function, it will be less of a factor.

If you were Fe dominant, you would have molded yourself to fit in the group, and been more agreeable I think.

Fi, wants to be part of the group as part of the ideal, and feels pressure to fulfill that ideal, which takes a life long pursuit of perfectionist behavior.

Ti on the other hand, will be the exact same, except the idael will have to do with some process I think, rather than person. The scientist, Ti.

The businessman, Te.

The social chameleon, Fe.

The person striving for their own created ideal, Fi.

The person striving for their own ideal process or theory not related to self, Ti.

Self ends up being whatever we focus on and enjoy and adapt with in our life.

Se dom, the stimulation lover, both people and objects.

Ne dom is a stimulation lover, but with abstract concepts, or larger ideas that we have to kind of reach out to grasp.

Ni dom since it is intraverted, derives their identity from this openness judgement free P perception, but since it is intraverted the abstract concepts and stimulations in life are meant to give meaning to the person.

I'm pretty sure it has to do with identity, since its I and in the dominant slot. Its not just deriving meanings of objects, but the meanings that Ni focuses on, are actually who they are. If you ask a Ni dom what their self is, they are the combination of all the abstract meanings in their world. I really have no clue what I'm saying though.

Si same thing but with concreteness. They like concrete meanings that apply to themselves. Perhaps Si would ask this question: "What concrete thing has given me most joy, and since I love joy, not only Joy defines my life goal but I actually embrace the goals of maintaining the concrete events through causality which have created joy within me.

So basically, All these descriptions of someones dominant perception, has to do with their superego ideal and goals.

So people's identity derives from what their superego ideal is.

Sure, sometimes the superego adapts ideals given by the id, but that then is still a superego ideal.

INFP's are J dominant. MBTI just switches it around, which was changed back later by August in Socionics.

Hope that helped! Lol.

I'd def say you are intraverted.

Just not sure what. I'd say your second function is not Fe.

Ni Te or Si Te I think are least likely

Fi Ne or Fi Se I think are very likely

So, do you need more alone time or more time with others?

And if its more time with others, is that because you neglected it so much that you are making up for it?

What about when you are social, and come home after a party, does your mind race and relive everything, or do you seek another extraverted activity and not self reflect as much?

Is this ISFP description not you? http://personalitycafe.com/isfp-articles/47510-isfp-description.html Fi Se


If not, my best guess is definitely INFP, and just that you think being intraverted is a weakness, or even being F is a weakness.


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