# Game design and development, GDC, Networking



## geGamedev (Nov 26, 2009)

I had a long drawn-out post in mind but it seems to have fled my brain at about the same time that I clicked "New Thread". Here's the minimalist version:

As the title suggests, I'd like to know how many people on this forum are either interested in game design/development or already in the field. The GDC, this coming February, would be a perfect meet-up opportunity! Also, as I'm an introvert, working, and going to University, networking on here would be very helpful.

*If you are going into the gaming industry, or a related one, what is your area(s) of expertise? If not, which parts of the industry are you interested in?*

As for me, I'm a "natural" programmer that has been trying to develop art skills. Unity3D, with C#, will be my focus as of the start of next year.


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## mnemonicfx (Sep 5, 2010)

I'm still struggling with computer graphics and AI.

I think I'm more interested in game networking system. One of this topic is about how to optimally render graphics in a multiplayer gaming environment. 
I don't have a specific interest in the game industry as of now, besides being a consumer or enthusiast. :happy:

But, well I can't attend GDC if it's too far. I'm in south east asia.


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## geGamedev (Nov 26, 2009)

mnemonicfx said:


> I'm still struggling with computer graphics and AI.
> 
> I think I'm more interested in game networking system. One of this topic is about how to optimally render graphics in a multiplayer gaming environment.
> I don't have a specific interest in the game industry as of now, besides being a consumer or enthusiast. :happy:


One of the biggest things keeping me from being able to design my current project, the way I really want to, is the difficulties multiplayer networking brings to the table.

A PerC MMO would be interesting, don't you think? :happy:



mnemonicfx said:


> But, well I can't attend GDC if it's too far. I'm in south east asia.


I wasn't able to go last year due to distance, although for me that's across the country rather than overseas... If this thread draws enough interest I may start using my PerC blog, or possibly new threads (if I find a decent place to put them) to throw around design concepts for feedback... maybe. It seems like it may be a little out of place here though...


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## mnemonicfx (Sep 5, 2010)

geGamedev said:


> One of the biggest things keeping me from being able to design my current project, the way I really want to, is the difficulties multiplayer networking brings to the table.
> 
> A PerC MMO would be interesting, don't you think? :happy:
> 
> I wasn't able to go last year due to distance, although for me that's across the country rather than overseas... If this thread draws enough interest I may start using my PerC blog, or possibly new threads (if I find a decent place to put them) to throw around design concepts for feedback... maybe. It seems like it may be a little out of place here though...


You can use your personal blog like tumblr (for a bigger audience), or maybe find a game developer forum.
It could also be talked about here, when you just want to ask for ideas from users.

Yes, it's interesting for an idea. The target platform should also be considered.

ngmoco "technology" is a good role model, if you want to extend it to mobile platforms.

SecondLife tech is probably a good example for desktop.


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## JoetheBull (Apr 29, 2010)

I have thought about going into this field or at least work on a single project game for this one story I came up with(mostly still developing). Unfortunately I lack the means to do such a project plus would probably get flack for most of the characters are child soldiers and some of them end up dying and the ending will be a bit grim.


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## Erbse (Oct 15, 2010)

The field is like a modern slave sector without much hope. Having the giants such as EA, Ubisoft and others buying all the independent developers to franchise their stuff has put the whole industry at hold for most part. Sequel after sequel no matter how bad while marketing makes promises you couldn't possibly keep. Plus games being released more prematurely than ever before.

While in theory it sounds fun, realistically I just couldn't do it. Clueless people in suits will tell you what to do without any knowledge of what's realistic / possible whatsoever. In addition you get stupid tight deadlines. Programmers are rather unhealthy these days I think, and start to burn out sooner and sooner. Your creativity department is likely to not find fulfillment in the branch.

Not long ago there were two anonymous bloggers, one from EA (known as EALouse) while other was from Valve / Steam. Whether or not they're brilliant trolls isn't exactly known, I for one however do have reasons to believe them, especially having seen what EA Mythic has done to Warhammer Online.

In case you're interested you can skim through his blog here, it's quite intriguing.

EA Louse | Bye Bye Mythic


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## wonderfert (Aug 17, 2010)

My degree is in animation, and I intended to go into game development. At the moment, I'm unemployed and so I can't afford to go to GDC.:dry:


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## geGamedev (Nov 26, 2009)

JoetheBull said:


> I have thought about going into this field or at least work on a single project game for this one story I came up with(mostly still developing). Unfortunately I lack the means to do such a project plus would probably get flack for most of the characters are child soldiers and some of them end up dying and the ending will be a bit grim.


Convert them into Hobbits. The rest I don't know how to "fix"...

Edit:
I'll be back, to give the other comments a decent read, later.


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## ZeRo (Jul 25, 2010)

I am going to start University for Digital Art in 2011.
(Gaming Animation)
Just have to pick my courses with in my animation program.
Imaging, animation, special effects. etc.


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## mnemonicfx (Sep 5, 2010)

Erbse said:


> While in theory it sounds fun, realistically I just couldn't do it. Clueless people in suits will tell you what to do without any knowledge of what's realistic / possible whatsoever. In addition you get stupid tight deadlines. Programmers are rather unhealthy these days I think, and start to burn out sooner and sooner. Your creativity department is likely to not find fulfillment in the branch.


Some indie developers managed to work for themselves and get a decent income from iOS platform (iPhone / iPad). But, most of them are not games. It's often that these are popular consumer apps done by small teams to an individual, and big corps aren't just efficient or agile enough for this kind of thing.

Games are facing tough competition from the big names, that's a bit different.


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## geGamedev (Nov 26, 2009)

Erbse said:


> The field is like a modern slave sector without much hope. Having the giants such as EA, Ubisoft and others buying all the independent developers to franchise their stuff has put the whole industry at hold for most part. Sequel after sequel no matter how bad while marketing makes promises you couldn't possibly keep. Plus games being released more prematurely than ever before.
> 
> While in theory it sounds fun, realistically I just couldn't do it. Clueless people in suits will tell you what to do without any knowledge of what's realistic / possible whatsoever. In addition you get stupid tight deadlines. Programmers are rather unhealthy these days I think, and start to burn out sooner and sooner. Your creativity department is likely to not find fulfillment in the branch.


Oh, I already know the pain in the ass game development can be. Freelance even more so. That said, I'd really love to find a way to make freelance work in spite of that. The main problem is covering necessities in the process. Freelance generally means more money will be going out than in. Who knows, maybe I'll do well enough to buck the trend. It isn't common but it does happen.

I'll have to look into how other companies are run, now that you bring it up. EA has never been a target for me though, so hopefully other companies are a little better run.



wonderfert said:


> My degree is in animation, and I intended to go into game development. At the moment, I'm unemployed and so I can't afford to go to GDC.:dry:


2D or 3D animation?
The only reason I can go is due to financial aid. Other than that, I don't work enough hours to do much.



ZeRo said:


> I am going to start University for Digital Art in 2011.
> (Gaming Animation)
> Just have to pick my courses with in my animation program.
> Imaging, animation, special effects. etc.


That sounds cool. I'd love to be able to create animated sequences to show people what's on my mind, for game design and in general.


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## mnemonicfx (Sep 5, 2010)

If it doesn't work out on your own, you could always fool the man in suits, a.k.a Venture Capitalists.

But, what Ebrse said regarding programmer's health is true. That's why I've been pondering philosophical crap, and some other things not related to programming at all. I still haven't felt that rapid bursts of ideas that occurred to productive or successful developers who could write neat programming tips and tricks about once a week in their blog.

My blog is full of musings not related to coding.


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## SyndiCat (Oct 2, 2010)

I don't have a degree, but I've made a couple of maps here and there. Level design is alright as long as there's 
no scripting involved. Just to be able to visualize and construct a world is enough for me, the AI is none of my 
business. If I were to focus on that I would never get finished anyway because I'm a nitpicker. I must admit, 
the most fun tool to work with is Valve Hammer. It's what I began with.

This map was never released. I was messing around with triggers, environment lighting, ambient and custom
made lightning. These are really, really old images I might add. Like woah, old.


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## Miguel (Nov 7, 2010)

I want to get into the field, but need to find a way to innovate. Perhaps it's a good idea to target the Android market and go from there?.


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## Miguel (Nov 7, 2010)

Erbse said:


> The field is like a modern slave sector without much hope. Having the giants such as EA, Ubisoft and others buying all the independent developers to franchise their stuff has put the whole industry at hold for most part. Sequel after sequel no matter how bad while marketing makes promises you couldn't possibly keep. Plus games being released more prematurely than ever before.


That's why independent developers should not compete directly with the giants but find their own market. Also, premature games are a result of bad leadership, nothing more.





Erbse said:


> While in theory it sounds fun, realistically I just couldn't do it. Clueless people in suits will tell you what to do without any knowledge of what's realistic / possible whatsoever. In addition you get stupid tight deadlines. Programmers are rather unhealthy these days I think, and start to burn out sooner and sooner. Your creativity department is likely to not find fulfillment in the branch.


Some managers might be clueless, but without a strong bureaucracy and clear deadlines you could get another vaporware as Duke Nukem Forever or Project Offset. Leadership is essential, like it or not.

If programmers burn out is because of stupid or absent leadership, in that case they can move to some other place. That's why people should find out if the manager or managers are men of vision and integrity before signing a work contract. Moaning and bitching when it's too late, doesn't work very well.


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## Erbse (Oct 15, 2010)

Miguel said:


> That's why independent developers should not compete directly with the giants but find their own market. Also, premature games are a result of bad leadership, nothing more.


I disagree, they should compete, especially since it's the independent developers that typically bring the innovation into the market. The giants do nothing more but butcher that innovation and making it a franchise. I wouldn't miss many of the giants if they were gone tomorrow, in fact I'd love for the day to come.

This may be a result due to having grown up in a time when a new game was still a new game as opposed to the microwave soup that just got its 3rd ride inside the microwave.

For me the industry is due for a revolution, that's probably the most accurate description of my viewpoint concerning game development at this point in time.



> Some managers might be clueless, but without a strong bureaucracy and clear dealines you could get another vaporware as Duke Nukem Forever or Project Offset. Leadership is essential, like it or not.


While leadership may be needed on occasion I expect a developer team that got together due to mutual understanding a lot more worthwhile and a more fun work environment. There's not too much problem with leadership in itself, as long as its competent as long as the competence among the team is on par, but many managers these days do nothing but manage, without having actually any clue of reality. Management has become as much of a farce as most country's politics.

Though, bear in mind I'm mainly talking about desktop games and/or consoles. I for one still don't have a mobile phone up to this day, so the whole web stuff, android and ipod stuff is completely irrelevant to my interests on any level, thus I couldn't evaluate how useful dipping into these sectors may or may not be. Chances are however there's enough potential consumers, because if they weren't the development would have gone into a different direction.


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## Miguel (Nov 7, 2010)

Erbse said:


> I disagree, they should compete, especially since it's the independent developers that typically bring the innovation into the market.


How can they bring innovation if they compete directly?. In other words, if you are innovating you are basically creating a new market for your products.




Erbse said:


> The giants do nothing more but butcher that innovation and making it a franchise. I wouldn't miss many of the giants if they were gone tomorrow, in fact I'd love for the day to come.


The giants do an important job too, not to mention they are the ambassadors of Gaming.




Erbse said:


> For me the industry is due for a revolution, that's probably the most accurate description of my viewpoint concerning game development at this point in time.


Yes, the revolution will go from the desktop to the mobile phone. It may be safe to throw Cloud Computing into the mix.




Erbse said:


> While leadership may be needed on occasion I expect a developer team that got together due to mutual understanding a lot more worthwhile and a more fun work environment. There's not too much problem with leadership in itself, as long as its competent as long as the competence among the team is on par, but many managers these days do nothing but manage, without having actually any clue of reality. Management has become as much of a farce as most country's politics.


You may have a point, but still I prefer this to the downright incompetence of a George Broussard.




Erbse said:


> Though, bear in mind I'm mainly talking about desktop games and/or consoles. I for one still don't have a mobile phone up to this day, so the whole web stuff, android and ipod stuff is completely irrelevant to my interests on any level, thus I couldn't evaluate how useful dipping into these sectors may or may not be. Chances are however there's enough potential consumers, because if they weren't the development would have gone into a different direction.


You are missing the future of gaming.


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## wonderfert (Aug 17, 2010)

geGamedev said:


> 2D or 3D animation?


3d. Though I started off in 2d. That being said, part of the program also involved stop motion. *shrug*


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## geGamedev (Nov 26, 2009)

Miguel said:


> I want to get into the field, but need to find a way to innovate. Perhaps it's a good idea to target the Android market and go from there?.


Oh yeah, if you want an "easy" in, you need to go with the mobile market. Part of that is because you will be selling at a low price, allowing anyone with a phone to buy them. $1 adds up very quickly when you consider how many people own a IPod Touch, Android, etc.



MikeAngell said:


> I must admit,
> the most fun tool to work with is Valve Hammer. It's what I began with.
> 
> This map was never released. I was messing around with triggers, environment lighting, ambient and custom
> made lightning. These are really, really old images I might add. Like woah, old.


I could never seem to get comfortable with map editors. Granted, when I was using them it was in a class that required us to bring in our own assets. I'm not a modeler, and the class was taught online, so solving some software problems was a pain as well.



MikeAngell said:


> I don't have a degree, but I've made a couple of maps here and there. Level design is alright as long as there's no scripting involved. Just to be able to visualize and construct a world is enough for me, the AI is none of my business. If I were to focus on that I would never get finished anyway because I'm a nitpicker.


World/environment building is where most of my interest is as well. Except that I aim to eventually do that with code.



mnemonicfx said:


> If it doesn't work out on your own, you could always fool the man in suits, a.k.a Venture Capitalists.


Good point! Start with a prototype/demo to gauge interest and then get someone to help fund the rest of the project.



mnemonicfx said:


> But, what Ebrse said regarding programmer's health is true. That's why I've been pondering philosophical crap, and some other things not related to programming at all. I still haven't felt that rapid bursts of ideas that occurred to productive or successful developers who could write neat programming tips and tricks about once a week in their blog.
> 
> My blog is full of musings not related to coding.


The biggest problem with programmer health is poor choice of convenience food. Garbage in, garbage out. Burn out is likely to happen much quicker while eating little more than fast food and soft drinks.



wonderfert said:


> 3d. Though I started off in 2d. That being said, part of the program also involved stop motion. *shrug*


Yeah, my degree had us working with clay, so I can easily see stop motion being in yours.


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## mnemonicfx (Sep 5, 2010)

Miguel said:


> How can they bring innovation if they compete directly?. In other words, if you are innovating you are basically creating a new market for your products.
> 
> The giants do an important job too, not to mention they are the ambassadors of Gaming.
> 
> You may have a point, but still I prefer this to the downright incompetence of a George Broussard.


Not a new market, but a new interest or a unique offering. You're still competing in the same market. You won't get a decent income if you don't try to compete in the same level like in the App Store. Of course your popularity is pale in comparison to EA, gameloft, or ngmoco, but at least you still receive some compared to if you don't use the distribution channel that they're using.

These days software are approaching virtual retail store approach, unlike the old days where you need to share more of your income with the publisher or distributor, or spend more extra cost for that. Thanks to Apple for pioneering this.

For a small team, what you need is a visionary, a professional developer and designer. What matters is the skill, focus, vision, and persistence. Not some "imposed" bureaucracy or deadlines. Everyone need to make their own deadlines. A manager without knowledge or experience of the development wouldn't know a thing about deadlines.

In other words, in a small team, you need great people who know what they're doing, not some amateurs who made mistakes every now and then, and need forgiveness from the other team members. You need to be self-critical in a small team, not just getting away with imperfection when your manager didn't notice it.

When your team is bigger and you want to expand your marketing, research and stuff, then you need to start to think about general management. Management cost is proportional to the number of people involved. The larger the team, the larger the need for a professional and experienced manager who knows what he's doing.


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