# Are INTPs more forgiving than INTJs?



## Veraine (Aug 16, 2015)

I've heard a lot of INTJs say that when their trust is broken, you'll never get it back, while INTPs don't seem to make a point of saying that. Are INTPs more willing to forgive than INTJs? Why would that be?


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

Cause once we decide that you are bad Ni has usually been to the end of time and back again,
and decided that it would be totally okay to never deal with you again within that time span.
Ne on the other hand are always open for possibilites and are willing to experiment more.

It isn't so that it can't be reversed in an INTJ of course, even the Ni-Te inclined.
You usually need an SFP to change their mind though.


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## Marvin the Dendroid (Sep 10, 2015)

Forgiveness takes maturity regardless of type.


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## Necrofantasia (Feb 26, 2014)

Oh I forgive.
Problem is I don't forget. In that respect you may consider me a guillotine as sharp as any J type.


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## Veraine (Aug 16, 2015)

Nell said:


> Oh I forgive.
> Problem is I don't forget. In that respect you may consider me a guillotine as sharp as any J type.


Same! But I wonder why INTPs are willing to forgive but not forget, while INTJs are willing to neither forgive nor forget?


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## Yasminec19 (Sep 16, 2015)

Yeah I know I personally have a hard time forgiving people. The other INTJ I know is even worse than I am. The INTP I know doesn't care much. Both of them are my best friends so I know them pretty well and I've seen it happen numerous times especially when it comes to relationships. My INTJ friend and I both won't even talk to someone who wronged us in any way, but we both adhere to a very strong moral code when it comes to relationships/friendships. It takes a long time for us to open up, but once we're in, we're in for the ride. My INTP friend is not like that at all, she has a very spontaneous way of being and kind of goes with the flow, even in her relationships. Her current boyfriend cheated on her while she was studying abroad, and she's still with him and is actually over the fact that he did. My ex boyfriend cheated on me and years later I'm still not over it. I think INTJs are just extremely sensitive. We pick up every single information that goes around us subconsciously, thats how Ni works. So we have to be extra-sensitive to everything, that's why most of us have a cold exterior that kind of protects them against emotional harm. Ne on the other hands is experimental. Ni is a weird function really. But well. I get over people, I don't get over what they do to me. It hurts so much sometimes that I can spend years thinking about it _obsessively_ but thank god I always find a way to turn the situation around and improve myself at the end of the day. I think most of the ideas I came up with and conclusions that I have about everything in the world comes from general frustration with people because of this oversensitivity, which made me really interested in how they work, ironically. I would be interested to know if other INTJs are motivated by the same aspect of their personality to understand whats going on around them and gain control over it because of this oversensitivity (have I revealed a dirty little secret ? ha) That's why we're not forgiving creatures in my humble opinion. INTPs are careless free little birds compared to Ni-doms.


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## VinnieBob (Mar 24, 2014)

Veraine said:


> Same! But I wonder why INTPs are willing to forgive but not forget, while INTJs are willing to neither forgive nor forget?


because we know human behavior 
like the old adage- fool me once, shame on you
fool me twice, shame on me
once some one fucks us we know they WILL do it again if we stick around


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## Catwalk (Aug 12, 2015)

I would not say I am ''unforgiving'' - in fact; I am very forgiving + damn near indifferent to error(s) / mistakes - you take my ''absence'' + dis-association / cutting individual(s) out of my life as ''unforgiving''.

Additionally 

It is not that I do not forgive your mistake; in fact - I even forgive AND forget quite _frequently_ + easily, however, I do not make the same mistake + associate with the individual _again_. 

*How about:
*
Why am I ''least'' likely to give 2nd / 3rd chances (i.e., _stupidity_) + learn from mistakes + try different / new approaches - than turning the same ol' gears + _welcoming and giving,_ demonstrably FLAWED / ''DANGEROUSLY'' (re: demonstrated) individual(s) multiple chances .. (?) :ssad:

A common misconception darling, I hold some kind of ''grudge'' / ''unforgiveness'' - when _in fact_, it is the matter I have forgiven + forgotten, (re: couldn't care _less_) thus, have no need for this individual to be within my life anymore .. 

Perhap(s), its usually others complaining I should ''care more than I should'' - (re: mistaking this as unforgiveness) - rather then ''care less'' ... :bwink:


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## Luck (Nov 19, 2015)

For me it's a moral thing. There are lines you don't cross. If you steal, abuse, breach trust etc why in the world would I forgive you? These are not forgiveable behaviors! I'm not going to stew over it, but you're out of my life. Society's push to forgive everyone for anything is something I can't comprehend. 

It's hard for me to say why us INTJs might be like this bc my view leads me to think bc we have a spine and say no. Perhaps bc we take ourselves and life seriously where others seem to treat it like a puppy at the park. Maybe I'm just resentful I have to carry around an exoskeleton bc others are bad and hurting people is illogical to me. Maybe it's bc a deceptive very bad person could ruin us if they got close enough (under our shell) and nature balanced that with a disgust reaction to very bad behavior (warning signs).


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## starwars (Sep 5, 2014)

Veraine said:


> Same! But I wonder why INTPs are willing to forgive but not forget, while INTJs are willing to neither forgive nor forget?


no idea about intjs. 
For INTPs, its really the functions
ti and ne are usually thinking about the future, and not doing things that you will regret(well, thats how i tend to live) then si kicks in and then you remember how you felt when that person hurts you...and fe is in there somewhere(probably the forgiving part)


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## Handsome Jack (May 31, 2015)

Yes. Fe vs Fi.


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## Necrofantasia (Feb 26, 2014)

Veraine said:


> Same! But I wonder why INTPs are willing to forgive but not forget, while INTJs are willing to neither forgive nor forget?


If I had to guess it's because we are on some level aware that people aren't static. Or alternatively, we just don't care about what that person decides to do, and this indifference comes across as forgiveness. It's much less effort than doing the cold shoulder or other high school-type ostracizing behaviours. 

I'm now considering different offense/circumstance variable combinations, different offenses warrant different responses. I have the habit of permanently severing all ties with people on the spot when the offense is bad enough (I guess I eventually forgive them afterwards even though I never resume contact?),and some things people would take lightly I take incredibly seriously. It is a persistent habit I acknowledge as damaging but oddly enough I never regret cutting these people off and my reasoning stands even after emotions have dissipated.

That leads us to another reason: We've got a greater threshold for what is deemed unforgivable.


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## Mortimer Mironov (Mar 9, 2016)

forgiving and forgetting are nice n'all, but the extent to which one should do that depends on the circumstances. if it was an action directed to harm you, such as blackmail, and if you think you know the person well enough to be certain that they won't repeat the behavior, or at the very least aren't LIKELY to do so, then forgiveness (outward anyways) is in order. you survived it once, whatever it was. 
if it's something to harm others--then best not, they may go after you two and that would be overly troublesome. 

in every case i don't see the point of forgetting, even if it's a person you like/respect, it was a behavior that caused you harm, perhaps, and could be repeated again. if it worked once, it's a liability. 
better to be safe than sorry and put up a buffer zone or two.


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## Camus (Apr 12, 2015)

Well depends on the situation but I am very forgiving... but if this people I forgave screw it up is showing me how I should leave the situation and cut all bonds possible,i like to keep my distance or you won't even know if I forgave you or not .
Maybe I did,but I won't do the mistake twice of relying on the situation or person itself as I did before.


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## Grandmaster Yoda (Jan 18, 2014)

Good question, I will be come back with an answer after somebody wrongs me.
I was never put into a position where somebody really had to apologize to me at the level you speak.


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## peter pettishrooms (Apr 20, 2015)

Because if you give them another chance more often than not, they're just going to step all over you and play hopscotch with your trust. Do I believe people can change? Absolutely. But it's not a process that happens overnight. If you immediately come to an INTJ with the intent of patching things up, the INTJ will just tell you to come back next year with a formal apology consisting of 100 pages of documents, signed and dated.


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## Punniez (Jun 23, 2015)

Marvin the Dendroid said:


> Forgiveness takes maturity regardless of type.


I think the pretense of forgiveness takes maturity. Forcing yourself to forgive someone is not. I have a legitimate reason for not forgiving someone, and trust me, the betrayal must be pretty bad for me to cut them off. Maturity for me means talking to them politely rather than completely giving the silent treatment. But fuck no, if you hurt me, I'm not letting you back in. That's what forgiveness means and I want none of it.


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## Marvin the Dendroid (Sep 10, 2015)

Punniez said:


> I think the pretense of forgiveness takes maturity. Forcing yourself to forgive someone is not. I have a legitimate reason for not forgiving someone, and trust me, the betrayal must be pretty bad for me to cut them off. Maturity for me means talking to them politely rather than completely giving the silent treatment. But fuck no, if you hurt me, I'm not letting you back in. That's what forgiveness means and I want none of it.


Q.E.D.

*mwah*


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## goodthankyou (Mar 25, 2016)

I think Fe users are more likely to forgive than Fi users? Because Fi users retain a memory of feelings, so they tend to hold a grudge for longer than an Fe user.


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## Punniez (Jun 23, 2015)

Marvin the Dendroid said:


> Q.E.D.
> 
> *mwah*


what's the '*mwah*' for


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## Marvin the Dendroid (Sep 10, 2015)

Punniez said:


> what's the '*mwah*' for


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## Punniez (Jun 23, 2015)

Marvin the Dendroid said:


>


That bird is begging to be eaten.


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## shallnotbenamed (Dec 19, 2014)

If it's something serious, I eventually forgive but I don't forget.


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## SouDesuNyan (Sep 8, 2015)

Grandmaster Yoda said:


> Good question, I will be come back with an answer after somebody wrongs me.
> I was never put into a position where somebody really had to apologize to me at the level you speak.


I also haven't experienced the emotional pain where forgiveness is necessary. Or perhaps I just natural forgive, but not forget. To not forgive, I'm guessing, is like hurting oneself for something that another person did. This sounds insane to me.


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## Peace Maker (Mar 22, 2016)

I have a theory that INTJs have a way of cutting off all feelings for a subject. I get the sense of it when my friend told me to "make peace" with something, as in, become completely indifferent to it. Which from my point of view is practically undoable, I could ignore my feelings by rationalizing the situation, but i cannot simply delete my feelings for something. I detaste his view that emotions like that are all bad.

The theory is applied to human connections so if an INTJ could do this it could explain why they seem unforgiving, it would just be the result of a "delete feelings" function.


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## TheNotSoTalentedPoet (Apr 6, 2016)

In my own experiences, I forgive rather easily. I certainly don't forget, but if someone wronged me in a particularly nasty way, I honestly don't see the point in dwelling on it. Like, I'm hurting myself more by keeping the antipathy in my heart than I am just letting go. But, I only take that admittedly trite approach whenever someone goes the extra mile in pissing me off. Otherwise, I pretty much always forgive whenever asked, unless the same person starts requiring my forgiveness on a constant basis. 

So, I'm rather forgiving, with a bit of a cliched thread of logic holding the stance together.


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## Windblownhair (Aug 12, 2013)

Fi vs. Fe reaction in a nutshell.


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## TheNotSoTalentedPoet (Apr 6, 2016)

Windblownhair said:


> Fi vs. Fe reaction in a nutshell.


What is that from? Fair assessment of both, by the way.


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## Windblownhair (Aug 12, 2013)

TheNotSoTalentedPoet said:


> What is that from? Fair assessment of both, by the way.


Pride and Prejudice. That one is the 2005 adaptation. Austen might not be to everyone's taste, but I enjoy the fact that she was a studier of people and created very vivid characters.


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## TheNotSoTalentedPoet (Apr 6, 2016)

Windblownhair said:


> Pride and Prejudice. That one is the 2005 adaptation. Austen might not be to everyone's taste, but I enjoy the fact that she was a studier of people and created very vivid characters.


Never read a word of her work, unfortunately. I'm secure enough in my masculinity to make an attempt, but there's very little in the way of either money or bookstores where I live.


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## Windblownhair (Aug 12, 2013)

TheNotSoTalentedPoet said:


> Never read a word of her work, unfortunately. I'm secure enough in my masculinity to make an attempt, but there's very little in the way of either money or bookstores where I live.


Project Gutenberg is a nice, free option for books in the public domain. Especially if you're like me and want to start a book at 3 in the morning, when neither library nor bookstore is open :laughing: And always cool to hear about a guy up for reading Austen!

https://www.gutenberg.org/files/1342/1342-h/1342-h.htm


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## TheNotSoTalentedPoet (Apr 6, 2016)

Windblownhair said:


> Project Gutenberg is a nice, free option for books in the public domain. Especially if you're like me and want to start a book at 3 in the morning, when neither library nor bookstore is open :laughing: And always cool to hear about a guy up for reading Austen!
> 
> https://www.gutenberg.org/files/1342/1342-h/1342-h.htm


Tell me about it. I'm just glad I can pester my grandmother for Tolkien.

I was semi-joking, but is there really some level of scarcity associated with guys who have read or are willing to read Jane Austen's novels?


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## Windblownhair (Aug 12, 2013)

TheNotSoTalentedPoet said:


> Tell me about it. I'm just glad I can pester my grandmother for Tolkien.
> 
> I was semi-joking, but is there really some level of scarcity associated with guys who have read or are willing to read Jane Austen's novels?


There is, which I find a bit odd compared to how many of them actually enjoy watching the films. They tend to be really faithful adaptations, so you'd think enjoying one would equate to enjoying the other. *shrug*


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## TheNotSoTalentedPoet (Apr 6, 2016)

Windblownhair said:


> There is, which I find a bit odd compared to how many of them actually enjoy watching the films. They tend to be really faithful adaptations, so you'd think enjoying one would equate to enjoying the other. *shrug*


Logically, but some people just have an aversion to reading, or they think it's the literary equivalent of a chick flick. Which, to be fair, it's the progenitor of the formula, but if anything, I find it more worthy of a read for that reason.


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## Windblownhair (Aug 12, 2013)

TheNotSoTalentedPoet said:


> Logically, but some people just have an aversion to reading, or they think it's the literary equivalent of a chick flick. Which, to be fair, it's the progenitor of the formula, but if anything, I find it more worthy of a read for that reason.


And she did it with a lot of humor and panache at a time where everyone else was doing Gothic romances. So props to her:kitteh:


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## TheNotSoTalentedPoet (Apr 6, 2016)

Windblownhair said:


> And she did it with a lot of humor and panache at a time where everyone else was doing Gothic romances. So props to her:kitteh:


I have an appreciation for all things Gothic, I'll admit (Oh, the angst that resides within....) but something less gloomy and pretentious is always welcome. I'll see what I think of it later; don't really feel like reading a novel right this moment.


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## nevermore (Oct 1, 2010)

IxxP's tend to be more laid back than IxxJ's.

Like @starwars said it really is the functions. Ni and Te are more directly trying to drive the world whereas Ti and Ne are more reactive.

This doesn't imply we are better people...we can be worse people because of it in some ways...a side effect is basically not giving a crap about a lot of things, lol.


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## ientipi (Oct 17, 2013)

yes, 
its very hard for me to hold grudges, i just can't. I've given up trying. For me to completely loose trust/faith in someone it can't be One event, or one reason. It has to be built up reasons over time, stacks and stacks of betrayal type things and such. And even then i find myself still thinking about them and missing them. 

So yes, unlike an INTJ, my indecisiveness turns me into a forgiving, tolerant person. I think the important part though is that if it has come to the point where i realize i must separate myself from a person, then i do it. i might think about them/miss them or crave their company but i will not even contemplate going back. its simply not an option in my mind


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## CTRLvector (Jan 28, 2016)

Yeah, forgiveness comes with the territory. I personally don't attach a mistake to my perception of any person, unless it seems to be a deliberatea act; or a recurring behavioral pattern, and even then I believe in positive change just as much as negative change.

This can lead to an extremely chaotic relationship, the polarity of emotional instability, and the propensity to forgive too easily, led to a sickeningly painful demise, a process of torture.


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## kannbrown (Oct 3, 2014)

TBH, I have neither the attention span nor emotional energy to hold a grudge. So, am I going to brood and lash out? Nope. I will even probably treat you civilly, but I can functionally cut you out of my emotional life fairly easily as well. It's going to take a series of events to do that, of course, not one. Takes a while to hit that tipping point, but when I do, that's it.


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## dreamy852 (May 9, 2015)

To me, I will forgive and don't feel like letting them know. The relationship freezes as a result.


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## Marshy (Apr 10, 2016)

saphireINTP said:


> When my trust is broken, I don't make you an enemy, I just no longer want to waste my time talking to you so you become insignificant to my life and there is nothing that you can do about that.The damage is done.


*Proceeds to break your trust*
Now what do you do when someone insignificant with no relevancy in your life breaks your non- existent trust?


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## Winterleaf (Jun 13, 2016)

I can't speak for anyone but myself, and all that's holy  Personally, there are only two type of person in my life, those who I care about and those I don't. If I don't care about you, I won't forgive you, cause I don't care. If I care about you, that means I like your as who you are. the more you do wrong the closer you are to become people I don't care, and once you cross the line, fair well.


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## Finaille (Aug 8, 2010)

I forgive. I don't want emotions negatively influencing my life because I can't let go.

However, I make educated choices from that moment to determine where I go. Just because I forgive, doesn't mean that nothing has changed and I have to pretend whatever happened didn't happen.


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## Elistra (Apr 6, 2013)

Past a certain point of uselessness and moral turpitude, "forgiveness" is just another F word, imo. When someone shows you who they really are, believe them.


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