# Songs from Ni-Dominant People



## Sparky

I would like to share a few songs from INTJ and INFJ artists. This also offers a comparison between INFJ and INTJ singing styles. Thank you for looking, and please enjoy.

*INTJ songs:*

Aerosmith (Steven Tyler, INTJ) - Don't Want to Miss a Thing:

Marilyn Manson (INTJ) - The Beautiful People:

AWOLNATION (Aaron Bruno, INTJ) - Sail:





*INFJ songs:*

Lana Del Rey (INFJ) - Summertime Sadness:





MIA (INFJ) - Paper Planes:





Sinead O'Connor (INFJ) - Mandinka:





The Replacements (Paul Westerberg, INFJ) - Can't Hardly Wait (1987)





It appears I can only have five videos in one post, so I removed two of them. You will have to find the songs by yourself on Youtube if you want to hear them.


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## Teybo

"Lana Del Rey" a.k.a. Elizabeth Grant is some sort of SFP, not INFJ. Her aesthetic is about concrete image, not abstraction.

I have a hard time believing that M.I.A. is any kind of introvert. I'd actually argue that she's ENFP or ESFP.

Sinead O Conner could be INFP or INFJ, but I lean more toward INFP, given her strong defiance to social conventions in favor of her personal compass.


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## Sparky

Teybo said:


> "Lana Del Rey" a.k.a. Elizabeth Grant is some sort of SFP, not INFJ. Her aesthetic is about concrete image, not abstraction.
> 
> I have a hard time believing that M.I.A. is any kind of introvert. I'd actually argue that she's ENFP or ESFP.
> 
> Sinead O Conner could be INFP or INFJ, but I lean more toward INFP, given her strong defiance to social conventions in favor of her personal compass.


Can you see that the three people are very much related in the way they sing, look, and talk? How is Lana Del Rey's song, "Summertime Sadness", be "concrete" instead of "abstract"? How in the world can you not recognize another INFJ like Lana, MIA, or Sinead?


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## Teybo

Sparky said:


> Can you see that the three people are very much related in the way they sing, look, and talk? How is Lana Del Rey's song, "Summertime Sadness", be "concrete" instead of "abstract"? How in the world can you not recognize another INFJ?


What do you want? Have them take the MBTI if it's that important to you.


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## Sparky

Here are the two videos I couldn't upload in first post:










Also, Selena Gomez is another INTJ:


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## QueenOfCats

Selena Gomez? INTJ? No.


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## LittleOrange

Lana del Rey is a typical ISFP, also I really doubt an INTJ could write such an emotional song as "I don´t wanna miss a thing".....(but maybe I´m wrong).

My guess:

*INTJ

*




*INFJ

*


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## Wartime Consigliere

Not really pop or mass appealing, but w/e.






"Turn the radio and TV off, think for a second
Technology is a blessing but it's also a weapon
A weapon of mass destruction givin' global instructions
Teaching us how to hate but does it in a way that we love it
Take my beloved rap music, erase the beat
Consumers act like they're afraid of intelligent speech
The rhymes are imagined in theory
Then itemized into a query
It takes more than your ears to hear me"


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## Entropic

Aside Marilyn Manson being so counter-culture with Beautiful People, I think the way he tends to write his lyrics is definitely Ne-tinted. The way he word plays has more to do with merging external ideas into a new idea than looking into the meaning of an idea. Not to say he does not do the latter, but I think he much more inclined to do the former as his lyrics are always so full of neologisms and similar word plays.


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## Sparky

LittleOrange said:


> Lana del Rey is a typical ISFP, also I really doubt an INTJ could write such an emotional song as "I don´t wanna miss a thing".....(but maybe I´m wrong).
> 
> My guess:
> 
> *INTJ
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *INFJ
> 
> *


"I don't want to miss a thing" is written by Diane Warren, who is likely INTJ. Also, I don't want to debate Lana Del Rey's personality type, because she will always remain an INFJ. 

Diane Warren:





As for the songs you posted, Mathew Bellamy, singer for Muse, is ENFP:





Katie Melua is ENTP:





At least you guessed them right in terms of being intuitive, and Fi-Te or Ti-Fe.


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## RoSoDude

Trent Reznor (INFJ):


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## Bricolage

Without a doubt an Ni song. Angels, reincarnation, eternal recurrence...an Ni dominants wet dream...then again, you could hate the track haha. Jumped in the river, what did I see? I thought of Lethe with the river reference, although that's not explicitly stated anywhere. Fuck, I love this song. 



> *"Pyramid Song"
> 
> I jumped in the river and what did I see?
> Black-eyed angels swam with me
> A moon full of stars and astral cars
> All the things I used to see
> All my lovers were there with me
> All my past and futures
> And we all went to heaven in a little row boat
> There was nothing to fear and nothing to doubt
> 
> I jumped into the river
> Black-eyed angels swam with me
> A moon full of stars and astral cars
> And all the things I used to see
> All my lovers were there with me
> All my past and futures
> And we all went to heaven in a little row boat
> There was nothing to fear and nothing to doubt
> 
> There was nothing to fear and nothing to doubt
> There was nothing to fear and nothing to doubt
> *







And for good measure...


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## Entropic

RoSoDude said:


> Trent Reznor (INFJ):


Why do you say INFJ over ISFP or INTJ for Trent? Wow, that video is so 5w4.


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## Sparky

RoSoDude said:


> Trent Reznor (INFJ):


I think he is INTJ:





Tavis Smiley might be INTJ as well.


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## orni

Sparky said:


> Can you see that the three people are very much related in the way they sing, look, and talk? How is Lana Del Rey's song, "Summertime Sadness", be "concrete" instead of "abstract"? How in the world can you not recognize another INFJ like Lana, MIA, or Sinead?


How do you get Fe from Lana Del Ray?


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## Sparky

orni said:


> How do you get Fe from Lana Del Ray?


Unlike Marilyn Manson's song "Beautiful People", or Aaron Bruno's "Sail", where they sing about how they feel on the inside, Lana's songs are more about how to have fun, like what Lana and her friend can do together. This is similar to MIA's songs, which is more about how people can get along. This quality of influencing the feelings of others, rather than projecting feelings from the self, is an indication of Fe.


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## mushr00m

Im a sucker for subjective intuition. I happen to like this track a lot.


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## R22

Roger Waters from Pink Floyd is reported to be an INFJ:_

"it’s no good crying for help if you’re sitting in the room all on your own, and only saying it to yourself. All of us I’m sure from time to time have formed sentences in our minds that we would like to say to someone else but we don’t say it, you know, well, that’s no use, that doesn’t help anybody, that’s just a game that you’re playing with yourself."_ - Roger Waters talking about the character from The Wall 

_"It’s not just a piece about the French Revolution, it’s about revolution in a much broader sense, and it’s about the capacity that human beings have for personal change. The piece is an exultation and an encouragement to those of us who believe the human race can discover its humanity and its capacity for empathy to the point where it may be possible for us at some point to guarantee the basic human rights of the individual (around the world)." _- Roger Waters

*If:*






*Careful with that Axe Eugene:*





_*Paranoid Eyes:*_





​


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## heavydirtysoul

Selena Gomez is either an ENFJ, or an ESFJ. There's nothing INTJ-ish about her. :wink: Is there?


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## RoSoDude

LeaT said:


> Why do you say INFJ over ISFP or INTJ for Trent? Wow, that video is so 5w4.


Definitely is, yeah.

I think the Ni-Se is pretty clear. He's generally soft spoken but always has a creative vision or framework that guides his work, and this seems to be his main mode of operation, which is why I peg him as an Ni dominant. The Se comes out in the visceral energy of the live shows (especially the Self Destruct Tour), but is otherwise not too visible, which is why I wouldn't say he's an ISFP. It's something that you can tell is important to him, but is only expressed in certain environments when he lets the moment take over (see "Trent Reznor's art of destruction", an excerpt from Closure). He's otherwise calm and collected and does not display this side of himself.

As for the Fe-Ti vs Te-Fi, I've always just thought that his music is too strongly about expression of emotion and feeling (that's how he started songwriting, and that's where it's always been), and that's too much of his creative inspiration for it to be in the backseat as tertiary Fi. I also think that his type of expression of feeling is more along the lines of Fe, as a lot of the goal is to connect with people in a broad scope; the audience screaming "Somewhat Damaged" back at him may not know what the feeling is about for him, but that doesn't matter. The point is that connection. You also have his worry of social responsibility for creating something so negative and potentially harmful as the Downward Spiral (as seen in interviews at the time) and the like, a concern that seems much more Fe than Fi (or certainly Te).

I have more in mind about the topic, but at this point I think it better to just lay out my general thoughts on the matter. Obviously I don't know Trent, so I'm not qualified to really type him. It's just from general approach, demeanor, and attitude that I attribute INFJ to his personality.


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## LittleOrange

I´m not here to argue or anything, but I´d like to contribute to this discussion. It´s interesting  I just checked Lana del Rey´s "Summertime sadness" lyrics:

Kiss me hard before you go
Summertime sadness
I just wanted you to know
That, baby, you're the best

I got my red dress on tonight
Dancing in the dark in the pale moonlight
Done my hair up real big beauty queen style
High heels off, I'm feeling alive

Oh, my God, I feel it in the air
Telephone wires above are sizzling like a snare
Honey, I'm on fire, I feel it everywhere
Nothing scares me anymore

(1, 2, 3, 4)

Kiss me hard before you go
Summertime sadness
I just wanted you to know
That, baby, you're the best

I've got that summertime, summertime sadness
S-s-summertime, summertime sadness
Got that summertime, summertime sadness
Oh, oh, oh

I'm feelin' electric tonight
Cruising down the coast goin' 'bout 99
Got my bad baby by my heavenly side
I know if I go, I'll die happy tonight

Oh, my God, I feel it in the air
Telephone wires above are sizzling like a snare
Honey, I'm on fire, I feel it everywhere
Nothing scares me anymore

(1, 2, 3, 4)

Kiss me hard before you go
Summertime sadness
I just wanted you to know
That, baby, you're the best

I've got that summertime, summertime sadness
S-s-summertime, summertime sadness
Got that summertime, summertime sadness
Oh, oh, oh

I think I'll miss you forever
Like the stars miss the sun in the morning sky
Later's better than never
Even if you're gone I'm gonna drive (drive, drive)

I've got that summertime, summertime sadness
S-s-summertime, summertime sadness
Got that summertime, summertime sadness
Oh, oh, oh

Kiss me hard before you go
Summertime sadness
I just wanted you to know
That, baby, you're the best

I've got that summertime, summertime sadness
S-s-summertime, summertime sadness
Got that summertime, summertime sadness
Oh, oh, oh

I don´t see anything abstract in this lyrics....maybe you as an N see some underlying meaning, but I don´t think there is any underlying meaning intended. Can you tell me what underlying meaning do you see in the song? I´m actually pretty intrigued  Also, you say she sings about having fun and doing stuff with her friends - that is an SP trait (SP´s as the fun-loving doers). Overall this song is very Se to me (like pretty much all Lana´s songs). Anyway, I don´t really like Lana´s lyrics, they´re kind of shallow evan for me as an S :tongue: and negative (depressing).

I agree with Steven Tyler being an SP.

Also, I don´t think Katie Melua is any kind of extrovert. She´s just too private to be an extrovert (but then again, I could be wrong).

​






I cannot comment on other artists cause I don´t know them well enough.





​


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## MrShatter

I believe John Lennon is an INFJ 9... so throw in a couple of the Beatles into this thread 
Also, I don't believe typing based on lyrics is very accurate. Stay cool everyone


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## JungyesMBTIno

MrShatter said:


> I believe John Lennon is an INFJ 9... so throw in a couple of the Beatles into this thread
> Also, I don't believe typing based on lyrics is very accurate. Stay cool everyone


Wow, that's one I never heard before for him. Very interesting!


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## Psychopomp

MrShatter said:


> I believe John Lennon is an INFJ 9... so throw in a couple of the Beatles into this thread
> Also, I don't believe typing based on lyrics is very accurate. Stay cool everyone


I agree about the lyrics. I mean, at least in ambiguous cases... People like to draw hard lines between types and say that if a few songs by someone -could- come from a type, that the musician that spawned it must be that type. I've certainly done it. 

John Lennon is clearly an ESFJ - 4w3 5w9 2w6 sp/so/sg-1 

@Teybo - I read your response to the riddle.... a few times. It was a great analogy but it failed to address the conundrum. I'll take it as an answer nevertheless. ISFPs flounder and fail at abstract depth... however, they are so great at singing about feeling bad about stuff and parties and stuff as to be commendable..... commendably skillful but lacking depth and meaning in an abstract context. Sure, I'll bite... 

So, why is it that I find Aaron Bruno deep and find Aimee Mann ... not deep? Maybe she is an NJ after all. I still don't see any Fe... but, you don't believe that tertiary functions do anything (or have logically asserted it at least... using Fe, right?) so she can't be an INTJ.... I must just be missing it. Anyway... why is party boy Bruno deep to me and psychic protector Mann isn't (as)? I think it's because his Fi is heavy handed while his Ni is ham handed and ... not shallow... rather, adolescent and obviously subservient. Yes, that's it. Fi is a better vehicle of wisdom and 'depth' in a judging sense (to me). Ni is about dissolving images into 'meaning' but no... not that... not meaning... meaning can be a value term just as easily as one of abstract vision. The word can cause confusion... it's clear that (at least lyrically) Mann has easier access to those abstract connections and interpretations... but, to what end? I see Bruno as having a stronger sense of emotional nuance - albeit in a more shallow sense, abstractly. While she is busy dissolving forms, he is busy engaging our value judgments in a nuanced way. He taps strongly into emotional wisdom and dynamic/engaging forms at the cost of being unable to abstractify image as heavy-handedly. That's a blessing, in a sense, since his Fi is what makes his music meaningful and appealing to me. She sacrifices (as much) emotional wisdom and dynamic/engaging forms but is able to offer a much more abstract comprehension? Still begs the question of where the Fe is, but I digress. 

So, yes, I think I may agree with you. I prefer Bruno. Fi depth vs Ni depth. I can live with that.


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## Teybo

arkigos said:


> @_Teybo_ - I read your response to the riddle.... a few times. It was a great analogy but it failed to address the conundrum. I'll take it as an answer nevertheless. ISFPs flounder and fail at abstract depth... however, they are so great at singing about feeling bad about stuff and parties and stuff as to be commendable..... commendably skillful but lacking depth and meaning in an abstract context. Sure, I'll bite...


Two issues that seem to be being conflated: "depth" and "meaning". If you go back and read my post carefully, you'll see that I never called Se or ISFP not meaningful. I just said that, for SP types, the meaning exists primarily at the surface level of the object or image. This is actually the opposite of saying that SP art lacks meaning. Let me be explicit: "SP art" is extremely meaningful. It is different from "NJ art" or "NP art" in _where_ the meaning is located, not in how much or how good or how touching or how whatever else about the meaning. "Depth" refers to location of meaning, not worth or importance of the meaning.



arkigos said:


> So, why is it that I find Aaron Bruno deep and find Aimee Mann ... not deep? Maybe she is an NJ after all. I still don't see any Fe... but, you don't believe that tertiary functions do anything (or have logically asserted it at least... using Fe, right?)


Perhaps you are conflating my use of the word "deep" to mean "good, moving, evocative, meaningful" when that is not the case.

I'm not in your head, but you probably enjoy Aaron Bruno *because *you enjoy the emotions that his music evokes in you. You find it "good, moving, evocative, meaningful", but that has nothing to do with whether or not the music is "deep".

And I didn't really assert that tertiary functions don't "do anything" (a problematic term anyway, though, as no functions really "do" anything in my opinion). I'm more arguing that for SP's, the order of preference is clear. The priority is in the experience or action itself (Se), and implications of the experience or action (Ni) are *secondary* and in service to further experience and action.



> so she can't be an INTJ.... I must just be missing it. Anyway... why is party boy Bruno deep to me and psychic protector Mann isn't (as)? I think it's because his Fi is heavy handed while his Ni is ham handed and ... not shallow... rather, adolescent and obviously subservient. Yes, that's it. Fi is a better vehicle of wisdom and 'depth' in a judging sense (to me). Ni is about dissolving images into 'meaning' but no... not that... not meaning... meaning can be a value term just as easily as one of abstract vision. The word can cause confusion... it's clear that (at least lyrically) Mann has easier access to those abstract connections and interpretations... but, to what end? I see Bruno as having a stronger sense of emotional nuance - albeit in a more shallow sense, abstractly. While she is busy dissolving forms, he is busy engaging our value judgments in a nuanced way. He taps strongly into emotional wisdom and dynamic/engaging forms at the cost of being unable to abstractify image as heavy-handedly. That's a blessing, in a sense, since his Fi is what makes his music meaningful and appealing to me. She sacrifices (as much) emotional wisdom and dynamic/engaging forms but is able to offer a much more abstract comprehension? Still begs the question of where the Fe is, but I digress.
> 
> So, yes, I think I may agree with you. I prefer Bruno. Fi depth vs Ni depth. I can live with that.


Yep. Sounds like we're on the same page regarding Se/Ni and art.

As for whether Aimee is INTJ or INFJ, sure, it's possible she is INTJ (I don't know Ms Mann personally, and I am making an evaluation of her type based on her artistic output and what I know of her biography), but to me the interpersonal themes in her music strongly suggest that she is an NF, not an NT. I don't know why you "don't see any Fe" in her lyric writing, as to me, the music video I posted as well as the lyrics I posted (and, obviously, lots that I didn't post) all deal with clear and obvious INFJ ideas: "Where is the boundary in how much I help this person?" "Can I help this person see the truth about themselves and their actions?" "How do I keep an open heart yet still protect myself from those who would hurt me?"


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## Tru7h

Steven Tyler an INTJ? I hope you mean that Diane Warren, the songwriter, was INTJ because Steve is certainly not one, much less an Ni-dom. Also, I highly doubt that Diane herself as an INTJ considering the concreteness of the lyrics. There is hardly any use of abstract language.


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## Psychopomp

Getting back on topic... I have for a long time thought that Natalie Merchant might be an INFJ? She definitely seems like an Ni to me. I can see Fe in her for sure. I'll defer to those who can identify.





 @Teybo - thanks for the discussion and I apologize for any misunderstanding. I felt I got a lot out of it... it certainly got me thinking, which is always welcome. 

* *







Teybo said:


> Two issues that seem to be being conflated: "depth" and "meaning". If you go back and read my post carefully, you'll see that I never called Se or ISFP not meaningful. I just said that, for SP types, the meaning exists primarily at the surface level of the object or image. This is actually the opposite of saying that SP art lacks meaning. Let me be explicit: "SP art" is extremely meaningful. It is different from "NJ art" or "NP art" in _where_ the meaning is located, not in how much or how good or how touching or how whatever else about the meaning. "Depth" refers to location of meaning, not worth or importance of the meaning.


Yes, that a stronger Ni will engage the abstract side of Se/Ni-Ni/Se more consciously, of course it will... and upon rereading your previous comments I think you stated this more than I appreciated. I think your simplistic recounting of the possible 'depth' of Sail caught my eye as being more representative of your sentiments:



> He feels bad so he is singing about killing himself. This is typical SFP music.


The simplistic implications of this definitely got my focus, rightly or wrongly. No one interprets this song in such a way. It certainly wasn't written this way. SP music is not this simplistic by a long shot. I actually don't think you necessarily feel it is but I interpreted that from this... so, I'll take a step back from this and accept your position as I understand it. 



Teybo said:


> Perhaps you are conflating my use of the word "deep" to mean "good, moving, evocative, meaningful" when that is not the case.


I did conflate it, yes. I think that is a fair interpretation. It's a certainly a common implication in the word. I did not read the word as you meant it. 



Teybo said:


> I'm not in your head, but you probably enjoy Aaron Bruno *because *you enjoy the emotions that his music evokes in you. You find it "good, moving, evocative, meaningful", but that has nothing to do with whether or not the music is "deep".


It's clever, nuanced, touches on the abstract (indirectly), subversive, evocative, etc, etc... yes. But not using Ni consciously or explicitly as Fi or Se, no. I'd rather think that Se/Ni are working strongly in tandem to produce the perceiving aspect of his songs. I certainly don't think I was arguing that Ni is conscious or strong in ISFPs.. simply that it exists and can be a strong influence... adding meaning and symbolism to their art. You accept that, so great. 



Teybo said:


> And I didn't really assert that tertiary functions don't "do anything" (a problematic term anyway, though, as no functions really "do" anything in my opinion). I'm more arguing that for SP's, the order of preference is clear. The priority is in the experience or action itself (Se), and implications of the experience or action (Ni) are *secondary* and in service to further experience and action.


You did not assert it, no. I inferred it from your statements that I perceived as seeing SP music as simplistic or shallow. I am happy to have been mistaken in that view. 



Teybo said:


> Yep. Sounds like we're on the same page regarding Se/Ni and art.
> 
> As for whether Aimee is INTJ or INFJ, sure, it's possible she is INTJ (I don't know Ms Mann personally, and I am making an evaluation of her type based on her artistic output and what I know of her biography), but to me the interpersonal themes in her music strongly suggest that she is an NF, not an NT. I don't know why you "don't see any Fe" in her lyric writing, as to me, the music video I posted as well as the lyrics I posted (and, obviously, lots that I didn't post) all deal with clear and obvious INFJ ideas: "Where is the boundary in how much I help this person?" "Can I help this person see the truth about themselves and their actions?" "How do I keep an open heart yet still protect myself from those who would hurt me?"


Fair. I'll listen more with that in mind. I didn't hear the Fe but with those prompts perhaps I will.


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## Teybo

@arkigos

Hey, no need to apologize. No feelings were hurt, at least not on my end. If I hurt yours (or another reader's), I apologize. We're just having a discussion here.  I'm learning as well.

I see how my statement about "Sail" could be interpreted as diminishing, though it's not my intention. I was just trying to capture what I see happening in SP art. I mean, it might be simplistic to say, "He feels bad and so he sings a song about maybe he should kill himself", but isn't that what's going on? Of course feelings (most feelings) are usually more complex than just "sad" "happy" "unhappy", yes. But his choice to convey his emotion was literally "Maybe I should kill myself". Lana Del Rey writes songs about love and missing someone and the lyric is literally "You make me feel alive" and "You're the best." There's a literalness there that's just characteristic of SP art.

When Aimee wrote a song about a character who is feeling used or unappreciated by a drug addict she didn't write "I feel used and unappreciated" She wrote "Was I the bullet or the gun? Or just a target drawn upon a wall that you decided wasn't worth defending?"

Different approaches to conveying meaning. 

I feel bad, so I sing about wanting to hurt myself.
vs.
I feel hurt and confused so I sing about not being sure if I'm a bullet, a gun, or a target on the wall.


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## MrShatter

arkigos said:


> John Lennon is clearly an ESFJ - 4w3 5w9 2w6 sp/so/sg-1


Clearly huh? Enlighten me


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## Psychopomp

Teybo said:


> @_arkigos_
> 
> Hey, no need to apologize. No feelings were hurt, at least not on my end. If I hurt yours (or another reader's), I apologize. We're just having a discussion here.  I'm learning as well.
> 
> I see how my statement about "Sail" could be interpreted as diminishing, though it's not my intention. I was just trying to capture what I see happening in SP art. I mean, it might be simplistic to say, "He feels bad and so he sings a song about maybe he should kill himself", but isn't that what's going on? Of course feelings (most feelings) are usually more complex than just "sad" "happy" "unhappy", yes. But his choice to convey his emotion was literally "Maybe I should kill myself". Lana Del Rey writes songs about love and missing someone and the lyric is literally "You make me feel alive" and "You're the best." There's a literalness there that's just characteristic of SP art.
> 
> When Aimee wrote a song about a character who is feeling used or unappreciated by a drug addict she didn't write "I feel used and unappreciated" She wrote "Was I the bullet or the gun? Or just a target drawn upon a wall that you decided wasn't worth defending?"
> 
> Different approaches to conveying meaning.
> 
> I feel bad, so I sing about wanting to hurt myself.
> vs.
> I feel hurt and confused so I sing about not being sure if I'm a bullet, a gun, or a target on the wall.


I completely agree on the language use... my only point being that while he uses pretty simplistic wording, he is in fact not simply saying "I feel bad so I sing about wanting to hurt myself". 

The fact is, he isn't saying anything that he said. LOL. That sounds bizarre but it's true. He is not pondering in the song whether to cry for help or to commit suicide... nor is he imploring the listener to cite a disorder as the cause. Rather, in my estimation, he is expressing (using wit) that his disjointed inner processes are ironic and untenable... lacking means of resolution, he turns it outwards with 'blame it on my add' which serves both as a sardonic backhand to society and as a cathartic subversion of the overwrought psychological loop he is stuck in. I am sure he has thought all those thoughts and felt all those things, sure, but he is not simply stating them to a tune. Not at all.

I rather see the sarcasm and irony that Lana Del Ray uses in a similar fashion. Her use of strongly mundane situations imbued with extreme passion and resonance is meant to be subversive and to rend at our conceptions... it's meant to be absurd, I think. I don't have much love for her music or her image, but I recognize that it's not half as ignorant or simplistic as it might appear (I think Fi/Se desperately seeks to divest art of explicit interpretations or direct metaphor - not to prevent depth, but to enhance it). It is, like it or not, meant to be abstract... though the approach is very nuanced and sublimated. They can't approach it and thus neither can we... but the writing is on the wall nevertheless. Ni is a fundamental and indispensable aspect of their music... it's just not the conscious portion. 

To reapproach your water metaphor: Ni/Se may dive into the depths for treasure... while (Fi) Se/Ni - rather than skiing, echoes the depths with sonar, gathering impressions and half-formed dreams that it interprets and conveys using plain statements that are arranged to convey those impressions in a nuanced and indirect way. Aka, art. Indirect, subversive, and subconscious vs direct, explicit, and conscious. 

I am not sure we disagree on this.


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## Psychopomp

MrShatter said:


> Clearly huh? Enlighten me


I actually would guess ENFP for him (but super unhealthy so it's hard to tell) and I don't know enneagram from adam and just picked random numbers. I was just being a dork. I kinda hoped someone would come back with a well-developed argument about why he was an 4w3 5w8 3w6 instead and that I had it all wrong. No such luck.

There are over 750,000 type variations in enneagram tritype with instincts. Three quarter million! That is nuance, my friends. G.r.a.n.u.l.a.r.i.t.y. 

I think Yoko Ono is an INFJ.


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## MrShatter

arkigos said:


> I actually would guess ENFP for him (but super unhealthy so it's hard to tell) and I don't know enneagram from adam and just picked random numbers. I was just being a dork. I kinda hoped someone would come back with a well-developed argument about why he was an 4w3 5w8 3w6 instead and that I had it all wrong. No such luck.
> 
> There are over 750,000 type variations in enneagram tritype with instincts. Three quarter million! That is nuance, my friends. G.r.a.n.u.l.a.r.i.t.y.
> 
> I think Yoko Ono is an INFJ.


:crazy:


----------



## JungyesMBTIno

John Lennon being an extraverted introvert sounds possible (I remember him being described as extraverted in a biography, although unlike some celebrities, this wasn't the common consensus in every bio I've read of his personality - I've definitely heard some people I would peg as introverts described as extraverted little kids and whatnot, which frankly, is probably common for young kids, as they don't really have strong identity boundaries to begin with, and it might just be a temperament thing, not a type thing). Personally, I think one of the big tell-tale signs for introversion as a tendency at least is when you hear things about the person like "They were hard to get to know," or something to that effect - they might show almost a dual personality on some level, and very often with celebrities, my guess is that the real introverts are often the celebrities whose feelings we really do not know about (I tend to notice that in interviews and whatnot, introverts are more often the people who just don't really have that much to say about themselves in relation to their work and whatnot - their personal motives are never really public, to the extent of how introverted they are anyway - they might be hard for extraverts to empathize with, just because they somehow don't come off as totally "human" to them, flaws and all - this extends to type in everyday life as well, often the extraverts find the introverts "cold," "remote," not really worthy of considerable investigation (these extraverts might be the kinds of people who wish that these introverts can talk more, otherwise, why even bother with them)). It's a fairly subjective classification as I'm coming to find - I almost doubt that a person necessarily has to be introverted in terms of one function either (unless we're talking about the conscious aims of the person's will, achievements, etc.) - you might get a person who is introverted in terms of several functions (I suppose that translates to, "the person doesn't really conform to outside influences in terms of that/those function(s)"). Might be the kind of person who is very influenced by their inner passions and ideas and not really that influenced by outside achievements that aren't on some subjective level highly representative of their personal ideas/ideals about themselves. Very unlikely to be the person who claims to "live off of an audience." I can buy that kind of person for John Lennon, in all honesty.


----------



## ebullientcorner

I'm a little biased being a huge AWOLNATION fan, and I see your theory of priority as viable to a degree, but I think the mistake always made is to speak authoritatively on any music you don't know - and especially to lay absolutes when it doesn't speak to you personally on behalf of the metaphoric world at large. This comes to mind:


Teybo said:


> @_arkigos_
> No offense, but this is the kind of stupid shit that happens in the "type me" forum all the goddamn time. The questionnaires ask someone to describe a picture and then people pull stuff out of their asses to analyze what the person wrote. Reviewing a microphone does not an FP make, just as noticing a detail about a picture does not an SJ make. Sorry to vent on you, it just harks back to the bigger issue that people think functions are things you can "use" rather than holistic vantage points that shape your larger perspective on life.


That being said, I think all of this is taken way too seriously. However, I should point out that Aaron Bruno is rife with hidden meaning.
Sail is NOT about him 'feeling bad and writing about killing himself because he feels bad'. Not to be a _total dewey decimal, _but this ought to be cleared up else I perish_. _Unfair analysis, especially of something I feel so strongly about_ (AWOL) _ raises my proverbial hackles_._Think of it like a incredibly deep well with translucent water where you can see the core because of the music. You were comparing two different types and in that slipped on a fallacy of comparison -rather, saying one could not be because the other was and visa versa. No type lays claim to metaphor. No type lays claim to experience. The entire argument is completely flawed by oversimplification and redefining words to fit your agenda.

As a high order Fi, I can say that gathering that integral raw emotion that lies deep beneath the surface and baring it, I guess, 'on the surface', is absolutely riddled with hidden meanings. It is simply not just experience based, as obviously, you missed them as you didn't relate to the song in that way. (?)
For the record:
Sail is not simple, and is mainly about (in my estimation) his angst with the world at large, specifically with how he fits into it. High order Fi relates to this on a deep and impactful level, and his raw emotion is what he pulls from deep inside and shares with us as a matter of his moral struggles with this contention. I would say this is a classic argument that rends the soul of any high order Fi: What is to be done between their own subjective morality and the consensus of the world? His expression of it is flawless, both in performance and lyrics. And what's more him coming to accept his own flaws, and then throwing it back with bitterness and confusion. Who is he talking to? I have no idea, is it a single person? a group? the world? himself? And he switches with almost every line.
There is more than just lyrics besides, as I said with his performance of raw and pure emotion. How easy is it to procure such honesty? There isn't any thing the like on the 'surface' of any human I have met. Fi 's hide their feelings, and anguish over their morality. To bring them to the surface is connotative of crimson control.

How you mentioned metaphors, I think that his questions and metaphor were incredibly obvious and thoughtful. And by obvious I don't mean easy to discern, but rather it is easy to see them. That is because he invokes my soul. My core. Trent Reznor does not, but that doesn't mean that I don't respect the difference in conflict and experience.
It is_ Aaron's_ moral questioning and conflict - and you can see it all up and down Megalithic Symphony, even with more peppy songs like 'Burn it Down'. I recommend 'Guilty Filthy Soul' (intrinsically an Fi/Se _metaphor) 
_It is definitely not just about 'an experience' that evokes emotion, (though I agree that those songs could exist more readily with SP types.) But an experience that creates a moral question. But what do I know? I know my music, I don't know anything about Aime Mann for example, so I can't speak to her type nor to her music. I could easily see her being an INFJ from what is posted and you made a great case for it. Which was thorough and complete and thought out by the by.

At least as far as Aaron Bruno and Fi depth go. He may have presented it an a concrete way, informed by his Se, where as someone like me would have contributed more abstract elements, but that doesn't mean it had no metaphor or hidden meaning and moral questioning. I feel bad for you, because you chose Aaron Bruno to compare because they just happen to be my like, favorite band of all time. But I mean, have you heard Paul McCartney's music? It's a hidden, rather than obvious metaphor, of subjective morality. Almost always questioning the morality of society and their place in it, or whatever. I hope I'm saying all this right, as I can't mean it as an attack. Simply, it is a minor correction to which I'm being weird about, so I hope you'll forgive me.

But if you want to keep credibility, I do recommend at least a comparison you actually know. Or, at least qualify in the beginning that the theory is something unstudied. The case for Aimee was thorough and completely wonderful, but your comparison to AWOL was slap-dash at best and only used to try to support your your theory.

This is an excellent example of a qualifier:



arkigos said:


> Watched a few videos and songs and lyrics.* Obviously not an expert here..* but I think Se/Ni-Ni/Se is definitely the more likely axis....


This will make the things that you actually are an expert on seem credible. We're all arrogant bastards here, and don't like to be informed of things without authority.


----------



## Psychopomp

@JungyesMBTIno - That makes a lot of sense.. I know John Lennon was an extremely 'extraverted' youth.... rather, always very extraverted. He did 'recluse' after the birth of Sean but even then, they were out and about quite a bit... living in the center of Manhattan as the biggest celebrity in the world... he definitely wasn't shying away from sociality. However, I think you make a good point with the distance that remains even when an introvert is social. I am a profound introvert, but in my vocation as a trainer I was forced to be very social and constantly around people. I enjoyed it but there was still an intangible distance. I guess I was hard to really get to know. It was a persona in a sense... a pre-packaged me that worked in the scenario but wasn't natural enough that I could just be a person that you got to know... I very much became a 'character' in that social context... constantly engaged but always as if I, myself, was piloting a robot? Yeah, like that. Is that an introvert thing or is that an Ne thing? 

Considering the difficulty we have in 'getting to know' John and also the strong persona he put forward... I think you might have a good counter-argument against extravert. Then again, there are three people I've met in my life who I KNOW are xNFP and two of them very much 'put on a show' and were very difficult to know - though the third, my wife, is also probably difficult to really get to know... all of them were 'ambiverts'... but, in a style I'd always attributed to ENFP in that it was very 'bipolar' - they were on or they were off... but in crowds it was always a 'show' in a sense. Perhaps it's just an ENxP thing. 
@ebullientcorner - I agree that parsing that argument down to one person vs another person was a bad idea. Since then I have thought about it, and there are a flood of instances of ISFP showing abstract capability in more direct terms. I think the point remains... but, yes, Aaron vs Aimee is not a good base to argue from... and the simplifications offered were erroneous. It's not so cut and dry.


----------



## SharkT00th

I'm disappointed with this thread, Ni-dom singers and No one posted this!




James Maynard Keenan is clearly an INXJ (leaning towards T).


----------



## Teybo

@ebullientcorner 

I'm going to split my response up into a few posts.

On the issue of "authority": I've never claimed to be an expert on type. All I have to offer is my own viewpoint, and I can usually speak confidently on what it is that *I* think regarding psychological type. I've said frequently that not only am I no arbiter of type, nor an expert, nor do my views fit with any particular theory, but that I'm even happy to be considered "heretical" as long as people listen to what it is I'm saying with an open mind. If you go back through my post history, you will find me repeatedly saying, "Don't trust me on this alone. Go find a book about type." or "The internet is full of people who are going to mislead you, and that includes me."

Meta: The majority of time that "authority" comes up, it's usually an FP or a TJ that's making a stink out of it. I think this speaks to the nature of Te as finding understanding of logic, reality, and correct categorization as an external, community thing. TP's and FJ's, in my experience, are much more easy going in my opinion when it comes to the realm of Thinking. If I'm to be completely honest, in this respect I find FP's and TJ's to be tedious, like they deeply need an agreed upon reality before they can move forward. I don't need us to agree upon a reality, as to me, reality isn't something to be agreed upon in the first place.

On the issue of being a total dewey decimal: :laughing: I've never heard that phrase before.

On the broad issue of connecting art and type: When we talk about type an music, we are necessarily talking about trends, tendencies, and recurring patterns. Using a complex metaphor doesn't make you an intuitive, but if you use complex metaphors all the time, then chances are that you are an intuitive. Writing songs with literal or concrete lyrics doesn't make you a sensate (otherwise I'd be a sensate!), but if you do it all the time, chances are that you are a sensate.


----------



## JungyesMBTIno

Heh, yea, not every performer is an ESFP either (this makes me want to rip my hair out, when I hear people claim that having a drive to "perform" is an Se dom thing, which honestly comes from nowhere as far as I know, other than "The Performers" Kiersey label). I know a bunch who are nothing like that). It seems like the more research I do into performing entertainers, the more often I come to find that they probably are not sensation dominants (a lot strike me as quite intuitive - it seems like most I've ever read about don't come off as Se doms - they don't seem that interested in their accumulations of life experiences, so-to-speak - they don't really play up reality values gleaned from that kind of thing, which is often a stereotypical Se dom - at worst, it's the person who is kind of sappy/sentimental about it - I think that's more Se than Si, really (the whole nostalgia focus) - I mean, I have no idea why a subjectively removed sensation mentality would even care about actual objective experiences). Just a major pet-peeve of mine (really, dominant sensation is not very well understood - Jung put it best when he said that perception cannot really be understood fully in rational terms). Trying to boil it down to a stereotype construct will not work (any kind of "construct," such as stereotypes, are products of judgment - you can't see a stereotype until you "know" what to look for - or at least you think you know best XP). Also, hyperactivity is largely not really a type thing either (Kiersey means this quite specifically - I don't think he meant to say that people with a lot of energy are Pe doms).


----------



## Teybo

Part two:

On the issue of Aaron Bruno: I was making a case for Aimee Mann's type as INFJ not ISFP, and using Aaron Bruno as an agreed upon reference frame to contrast with. That's why you correctly perceive that I have made a case for Aimee Mann's type but not for Aaron Bruno's type, because I took his type as a "given", and he was tangential to the main point I was making.

On the issue of Fi: I deliberately did not talk about Fi.
The first rule of Fi club is you do not talk about Fi club.
The second rule of Fi club is you do NOT talk about Fi club.
The last rule of Fi club is that if you talk about Fi club, everyone fights.

Your discussion of Fi is, frankly, a new discussion, and one that I'm completely uninterested in joining.

On the issue of "depth" and "meaning": I feel like this thread has been derailed enough, and I feel like I've spent too many a post already outlining my views on semiotics and how it manifests in Se vs Ni. I looked up the lyrics to "Guilty Filthy Soul" and they do not contain intricate metaphors. I see some cliche (water under the bridge, blackening a name) but I don't see a lot of metaphor here. Let me remind you that I am talking about the lyrics themselves. I'm talking about the signifier. A signifier can be quite plain: The sun. But what it signifies can be quite complex: light, beauty, life, warmth, love, passion, summer, etc. As an Ne-dominant, you are likely to easily see the complexity of what a sign signifies, but that complexity arises from your interpretation. Do not confuse the signifier with the signified. 

The link between signifier and signified is more direct for Sensate art than it is for Intuitive art. An intuitive might paint a picture of a square and a circle and say it represents the Virgin Mary. A sensate would be more likely to paint something that at least resembles a human.


----------



## JungyesMBTIno

Not everyone who sings something esoteric is an intuitive (that's another rather hilarious misconception I see going around quite often). Not that it may not be true either, but it probably says nothing about type (I would imagine that would be more of a feeling interest, really (if in fact this is in the taste of the feeling type at all) - not sure why someone who values thinking would have any real interest in the ethereal for the sake of it). I'd personally love to one day just throw around some clips of ballads and pop standards and their artists and get people to try to read types against their own stereotypical conceptions into them (if I really find that I don't have a life one day down the road, I might do such a thing). I mean, go back in time far enough and the standard fare for music was, say, Irving Berlin, George Gershwin, etc. stuff that has zero to do with these cultural tropes we observe today (and who is to say these people weren't intuitive based on that reasoning?). These genres deal with the culture and it's ideas, not the cognition of the individuals behind it. I've probably argued this a billion times here.


----------



## Psychopomp

JungyesMBTIno said:


> Heh, yea, not every performer is an ESFP either (this makes me want to rip my hair out, when I hear people claim that having a drive to "perform" is an Se dom thing, which honestly comes from nowhere as far as I know, other than "The Performers" Kiersey label). I know a bunch who are nothing like that). It seems like the more research I do into performing entertainers, the more often I come to find that they probably are not sensation dominants (a lot strike me as quite intuitive - it seems like most I've ever read about don't come off as Se doms - they don't seem that interested in their accumulations of life experiences, so-to-speak - they don't really play up reality values gleaned from that kind of thing, which is often a stereotypical Se dom - at worst, it's the person who is kind of sappy/sentimental about it - I think that's more Se than Si, really (the whole nostalgia focus) - I mean, I have no idea why a subjectively removed sensation mentality would even care about actual objective experiences). Just a major pet-peeve of mine (really, dominant sensation is not very well understood - Jung put it best when he said that perception cannot really be understood fully in rational terms). Trying to boil it down to a stereotype construct will not work (any kind of "construct," such as stereotypes, are products of judgment - you can't see a stereotype until you "know" what to look for - or at least you think you know best XP). Also, hyperactivity is largely not really a type thing either (Kiersey means this quite specifically - I don't think he meant to say that people with a lot of energy are Pe doms).





SharkT00th said:


> I'm disappointed with this thread, Ni-dom singers and No one posted this!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> James Maynard Keenan is clearly an INXJ (leaning towards T).


I think INTJ is right on the money with him.. though I haven't listened to much (or really any, honestly) of his music. In interviews I think INTJ comes through strongly. 

Which makes me offer the obligatory: Tori Amos 

INFJ

If she hasn't been mention in this thread I'd be surprised, but I have no explicit recollection. 

That's another problem I have had with Aimee Mann as INxJ - Keenan, Amos, Merchant... they all seem so cut and dry to me... but Mann? I can't help but see her as a stronger Fi... and a weaker Ni... and I am dealing specifically with interviews here, not lyrics. I am still wrestling with this one. Unsure.
@Teybo - I don't think @ebullientcorner was arguing Fi so much as arguing against a perceived slight of you casting her beloved band as lacking in metaphor. I think it's really easy for your very technical point to 'raise hackles' as she said. Mine were similarly raised. I know you say you don't think they lack meaning... but at the same time you seemed clearly unaware of any meaning that the artist themselves might have put in it other than 'I feel bad so I sing about it'. You may call that meaning.... understand that the word I, and perhaps ebullient mean to come across is abstraction and conceptual meaning. N meaning. N. N. N. That's all. That's the contention.. which I feel is resolved.


----------



## Teybo

ok cool


----------



## Vanishing Point

.....and double Ni-Dom


----------



## Vanishing Point

Regine


----------



## Abraxas

You could get lost in these songs forever.

_When everything is intuitive, *everything makes sense*_.


----------



## Abraxas




----------



## Vanishing Point




----------



## Vanishing Point




----------



## Vanishing Point

SharkT00th said:


> I'm disappointed with this thread, Ni-dom singers and No one posted this!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> James Maynard Keenan is clearly an INXJ (leaning towards T).


 Tori Amos and James Maynard Keenan


----------



## Bricolage

Vanishing Point said:


>


The Smiths inexorably attract Ni folk haha. My INTJ dad heard "How Soon is Now" and he was like, what's that song with the tremolo? And then he spouted off on the lyrics, namely, by rehashing the opening line. I smiled impishly and pretended not to know for awhile.


----------



## Space Cat

LittleOrange said:


> I really doubt an INTJ could write such an emotional song as...


Of course. INTJs are unable to have emotions... :dry:



R22 said:


> Roger Waters from Pink Floyd is reported to be an INFJ:


He's more likely Te (INTJ)



RoSoDude said:


> As for the Fe-Ti vs Te-Fi, I've always just thought that his music is too strongly about expression of emotion and feeling (that's how he started songwriting, and that's where it's always been), and that's *too much of his creative inspiration for it to be in the backseat as tertiary Fi*. I also think that his type of expression of feeling is more along the lines of Fe, as a lot of the goal is to connect with people in a broad scope; the audience screaming "Somewhat Damaged" back at him may not know what the feeling is about for him, but that doesn't matter. The point is that connection. You also have his worry of social responsibility for creating something so negative and potentially harmful as the Downward Spiral (as seen in interviews at the time) and the like, a concern that seems much more Fe than Fi (or certainly Te).


This part doesn't make sense. The conclusion to this paragraph would be Fe= feelings which is *false*. Trent is more likely a Fi user based on the depth of his message, so the obvious choice would be INTJ. And tertiary Fi isn't necessarily a backseat function. It's the top third function out of 8, i don't see how it's backseat.



MrShatter said:


> I believe John Lennon is an INFJ 9... so throw in a couple of the Beatles into this thread
> Also, *I don't believe typing based on lyrics is very accurate*. Stay cool everyone


Thank you. Really.



SharkT00th said:


> I'm disappointed with this thread, Ni-dom singers and No one posted this!
> James Maynard Keenan is clearly an INXJ (leaning towards T).


He's a Te/Fi user so you've got that right on the mark there.


----------



## Vanishing Point

unctuousbutler said:


> The Smiths inexorably attract Ni folk haha. My INTJ dad heard "How Soon is Now" and he was like, what's that song with the tremolo? And then he spouted off on the lyrics, namely, by rehashing the opening line. I smiled impishly and pretended not to know for awhile.


Lol! So true! That's how I was the first time I heard that song! Like one of those prairie dogs "what was THAT???"
This information could be used to perform hilarious experiments on unsuspecting Ni doms so shhh... Mom's the word. No ENTP must ever hear of this. The ones I know would use this for their own amusement. Turn it on in MBTI conventions and snap pictures of the funny looks on our faces.



CeresZal said:


> Of course. INTJs are unable to have emotions... :dry:


Yes. The INTJbot theory. Somehow reminds me of that Nirvana lyric "It's ok to eat fish cause they don't have any feelings" INTJs officially have feelings. They are human. Even Gary Numan. It's not ok to eat one.


----------



## Remcy

Toni Wirtanen, the lyricist and vocalist of the Finnish band Apulanta is an INTJ.


----------



## Sparky

Not sure if mentioned already, because here is Thom Yorke, the INTJ lead vocalist of Radiohead:


----------



## Dewymorning

Neil Finn from Crowded House (and formerly Split Enz) is an INTJ.

His most famous song is "Don't Dream It's Over" (once sung by Susan Boyle :mellow: )





And here is one of my favourites






This one is a bit Beatle-esque.


----------



## Sweetish

In this discussion, it would have been helpful to say that songs being posted don't necessarily highlight the musician in them as having a particular MBTI, since there are musicians /artists who perform music and /or lyrics written by other people. Also, it would be nice that people post lyrics and explain significance of interpretation with supporting argument.



arkigos said:


> Getting back on topic... I have for a long time thought that Natalie Merchant might be an INFJ? She definitely seems like an Ni to me. I can see Fe in her for sure. I'll defer to those who can identify.


Natalie Merchant ISTP

I offer this after having thought a lot about it, off and on, as I've been a big fan of her work with 10,000 Maniacs since I was young.

INFJ see poetry in everything and everything as poetry, which is why it's odd -I remarked on this to myself when I bought the album they discuss in that video you linked- that she mentions her difficulties considering poems as songs. This concept wasn't accessible to her immediately, the way that it is to an Ni dom. Additionally, she has to feel the words in her mouth, as she says, which is typical for Se dom or Se aux to want to feel things in their mouth, whatever they may be (often textures of food, for example). You'll never hear an INFJ say that they "lack depth" as an excuse for not fully grasping something. That's just laughable.

You'll notice there are 4 groupings of MBTI who use the same cognitive functions, just in different order, as such:

INFJ: *Ni* (Fe, Ti) Se
ENFJ: Fe (*Ni*, Se) Ti
ISTP: Ti (Se, *Ni*) Fe
ESTP: Se (Ti, Fe) *Ni*

Natalie is nearly 50 years old. Based upon the person's age and experience you can gauge whether they're likely to be developing a particular cognitive function more so than the rest, but it won't change the strength of their dominant JCF, merely put it in the background just a little bit while the person refocuses how they employ their JCF stack in current interests.

My ESTP niece is 25 and it's obvious that she has inferior Ni but that it's starting to come out and really disorient her, and she's emphasizing loyalty to group think more than ever, before, in her life in terms of not betraying a faith based group's explicit value systems being interpreted correctly. Introverted iNtuition being so weak for my niece, she's not yet at the age (stage in her maturity or development) to be comfortable immersing herself in symbolism or grasping how she's being manipulated by other people's interpretations of meaning rather than forming her own. She's quite threatened by it and dismissive of Ni, which really saddens me.

Natalie Merchant, twice my ESTP niece's age by contrast, has already eased into accepting Ni into her functional stack in a fluid way that makes sense to, well, Natalie, and she's begun reaching out more to the public to integrate as part of groups (developing that inferior Fe on her terms, as she feels comfortable) more so than ever in her past.


----------



## Navi

Sparky said:


> Also, Selena Gomez is another INTJ:


----------



## Entropic

@Abraxas those were just <3 Although I prefer We Form in Crystals from Star Ocean 2. Best ending song for any video game ever.


























Whether the composers are Ni types or not I have no clue, but the music sure Ni tickles.


----------



## Psychopomp

SweetSurrender said:


> In this discussion, it would have been helpful to say that songs being posted don't necessarily highlight the musician in them as having a particular MBTI, since there are musicians /artists who perform music and /or lyrics written by other people. Also, it would be nice that people post lyrics and explain significance of interpretation with supporting argument.
> 
> 
> 
> Natalie Merchant ISTP
> 
> I offer this after having thought a lot about it, off and on, as I've been a big fan of her work with 10,000 Maniacs since I was young.
> 
> INFJ see poetry in everything and everything as poetry, which is why it's odd -I remarked on this to myself when I bought the album they discuss in that video you linked- that she mentions her difficulties considering poems as songs. This concept wasn't accessible to her immediately, the way that it is to an Ni dom. Additionally, she has to feel the words in her mouth, as she says, which is typical for Se dom or Se aux to want to feel things in their mouth, whatever they may be (often textures of food, for example). You'll never hear an INFJ say that they "lack depth" as an excuse for not fully grasping something. That's just laughable.
> 
> You'll notice there are 4 groupings of MBTI who use the same cognitive functions, just in different order, as such:
> 
> INFJ: *Ni* (Fe, Ti) Se
> ENFJ: Fe (*Ni*, Se) Ti
> ISTP: Ti (Se, *Ni*) Fe
> ESTP: Se (Ti, Fe) *Ni*
> 
> Natalie is nearly 50 years old. Based upon the person's age and experience you can gauge whether they're likely to be developing a particular cognitive function more so than the rest, but it won't change the strength of their dominant JCF, merely put it in the background just a little bit while the person refocuses how they employ their JCF stack in current interests.
> 
> My ESTP niece is 25 and it's obvious that she has inferior Ni but that it's starting to come out and really disorient her, and she's emphasizing loyalty to group think more than ever, before, in her life in terms of not betraying a faith based group's explicit value systems being interpreted correctly. Introverted iNtuition being so weak for my niece, she's not yet at the age (stage in her maturity or development) to be comfortable immersing herself in symbolism or grasping how she's being manipulated by other people's interpretations of meaning rather than forming her own. She's quite threatened by it and dismissive of Ni, which really saddens me.
> 
> Natalie Merchant, twice my ESTP niece's age by contrast, has already eased into accepting Ni into her functional stack in a fluid way that makes sense to, well, Natalie, and she's begun reaching out more to the public to integrate as part of groups (developing that inferior Fe on her terms, as she feels comfortable) more so than ever in her past.


I totally get the logical process here, but I am unmoved. The problem I have in doing that, of course, is that I know crap about Natalie Merchant. Hopefully, there is some virtue to wring out of that fact. Maybe.

A few fool arguments to consider as appropriate:

1) While she does show Se, I'd think that it's manifestation as tics and generally bizarre and offish is a better indication of low (subconscious/subliminal) activity than a function that has been conscious in the person for decades.

2) By contrast, she uses 'N' with great conscious strength in her general speech, easily abstracting and concluding her thoughts. Yes, ISxP can do this, but it usually comes out pretty ... well, let's just say you can usually tell the person hasn't been using Ni consciously their whole life. Natalie is definitely stronger in her usage than that.

3) I doubt dominant positioning for Ti, for a number of reasons. It feels subordinate to Ni to me. Regardless, I would not call it dominant at all in this interview or in her music. 

4) Carnival and Wonder are about the most brazenly Ni songs I have ever heard in my life. I'll grant you that Carnival shows a lot of Ti, but it's certainly subordinate to Ni in mood. Wonder fixes the problem by being an Ni face smash. 

5) Her (successful) songwriting heyday was early nineties, when she was turning 30. She would have written all of the songs I am basing my opinions on while in her late 20s and very early 30s.

I strongly doubt ISTP, but, again, I know little about her ultimately. Honestly, other than a relatively small sampling of songs (I've been a 'fan' since 10,000 maniacs but not a very devoted one), a wiki page and two or three interviews, I know nothing.

EDIT: Also, since we are ultimately judging her by comparison and dichotomy in your framework (and in mine). Who is she more like, Tori Amos(INFJ) or CeeLo Green(ISTP)? In that rather stark perspective, some flexibility is probably warranted. 

Also, I think a comment about not being deep may not be as significant or damning as you say. I totally get why it struck you, yes, but maybe she was just being weirdly self-conscious. People say weird things under the influence of various neuroses... which interviews can pull out.


----------



## Carmine Ermine

The MBTI of the person often doesn't match the song, sometimes it's opposite type.
These always seemed like Ni songs to me, whether they're actually made by Ni-doms is anyone's guess:


----------



## Psychopomp

Carmine Ermine said:


> The MBTI of the person often doesn't match the song, sometimes it's opposite type.
> These always seemed like Ni songs to me, whether they're actually made by Ni-doms is anyone's guess:


I agree that lyrics cannot stand alone in typing someone... 

My best example of that is this song (warning: the lyrics are filled with crass innuendo):


* *







> ((Lyrics from some random website, so there are sure to be mistakes.))
> You try to play it cool, like you just don’t care
> But soon I’ll be playin’ in your underwear
> I’m like a mage with the magic spell
> You come like a dog when I ring yo’ bell
> 
> 
> I got the money and I got the fame
> You got the hots to ride on my plane
> You givin’ me all that I desire
> ’Cause down with me, I’m taking you higher
> 
> 
> I’m the baddest of the bad
> I’m the best that you’ve ever had
> I’m the tops, I’m the king
> All the girls get up when I sing, yeah
> 
> 
> I’m the meanest in the place
> Step up, I’ll mess with your face
> I don’t care where you are
> Look up and follow [this] star
> 
> 
> Aah, I’m gonna tear down the wall
> I may not be here when you call
> So best be givin’ me your all
> (Ooo, hoo)
> 
> 
> After the havoc that I’m gonna wreak
> No more words will critics have to speak
> I’ve got the answers to the tangled knot
> Sleep tight in your cot
> 
> 
> Oh baby, I’ve been told that I’m goin’ crazy
> Oh baby, well, I can’t be held down
> Oh baby, somehow I'm keeping it steady
> Oh baby, I’m tearing up this town
> 
> 
> Hey, this is what I like
> Cut my heart with a modern spike
> Hey, this is nothing new
> I’ve got more than enough for you
> 
> 
> I can take on anybody
> I can do my thing
> I don’t wanna hurt nobody
> But a bee has got to sting
> 
> 
> I’ma fix it if you mix it up
> (Hoo, hoo)
> Talk smack, and I’ma gonna shut you up
> (Hoo, hoo)
> 
> 
> I am the greatest man that ever lived
> I was born to give
> I am the greatest man that ever lived, oh
> Radioactive
> 
> 
> Somebody said all the world's a stage
> And each of us is a player
> That’s what I’ve been tryin’ to tell you
> 
> 
> In act 1 I was struggling to survive
> Nobody wanted my action dead or alive
> Act 2, I hit the big time
> And bodies be all up on my behind
> And I can’t help myself because I was born to shine
> 
> 
> If you don’t like it, you can shove it
> But you don’t like it, you love it
> So I’ll be up here in a rage
> ’Til they bring the curtain down on the stage
> 
> 
> I’m the greatest man that ever lived
> I’m the greatest man that ever lived
> I’m the greatest man that ever lived
> 
> 
> I am the greatest man that ever lived
> I was born to give and give and give
> I am the greatest man that ever lived
> Radioac, dioac
> (Dioactive)
> 
> 
> I am the greatest man that ever lived
> I was born to give





Now, check out the artist talking about the song:


* *












Having just read those lyrics would your first guess have been a painfully shy and sensitive INFP? So, yeah, I agree we aren't going to get very far with these shortcuts. This is ultimately the problem typing celebrities as well: too little data, situations too limited and unnatural (people act a lot different in interviews sometimes), and the problem of persona. I'd say it's a good starting point for discussion, though... it's just a dangerous game.


----------



## Sweetish

@arkigos Utilizing Ni does not make a person an Ni dominant.

I'm just hoping you're enjoying where your thought treks may take you.


----------



## Psychopomp

SweetSurrender said:


> @_arkigos_ Utilizing Ni does not make a person an Ni dominant.
> 
> I'm just hoping you're enjoying where your thought treks may take you.


Less of a trek and more of severely malfunctioning teleportation device / time machine: whether I enjoy it or not, so it is.†

Also, I realize utilizing Ni isn't a sign of dominance... my impression was that she was an example of not Ni utilization and thus Ni dominant, but dominant Ni utilization and thus Ni dominant. Unfortunately, my impressions are all too often wrong. 

I am adamant that if my impression of her being an Ni dom is correct, that she is an Ni dom. I call that semi-circular logic. ... and by that I mean lazy. I just don't see why you aren't getting on board with this.



† Like Quantum Leap but Al is an *​*belligerently hyperactive senile monkey. Yes, just so.


----------



## Antipode

This song is probably initially Fi; however, for me, it speaks to my Ni. :3


----------



## Abraxas

@_LeaT_,

This is what happens when a Ni-dom starts dancing:






Take note of the way that sensation is repressed - he's really not "sensing" what he's doing. It's entirely flowing out of the music and _through_ him, as he's subjectively interpreting the music into movement _intuitively_ without thinking about it, or at least, with only minimal thought. Sensation is only minimally present because to be too focused on sensation would lend his movements a more choreographed appearance. Intuition is necessary for the improvisation which is happening on the spot in real-time. Nothing is repeated, even if some of his movements are similar due to the theme which "emerges" from his overall performance.

I also find it as no mere coincidence that he (and myself) find this kind of strange and eccentric dance only natural, whilst all the INTJs here on PerC practically worship amebas and jellyfish. See the similarity? I believe this is due to the "fluidic" and dynamic nature of Ni, which is never "stuck" in anything objective, but rather, constantly changes to reflect the mercurial nature of the unconscious psyche.

I myself do this kind of dancing as well, for a hobby and for exercise. This is one of my own videos:






Here is some more similar music I also use for practice:


----------



## Sparky

Rie Tanaka (INTJ)





Ellen McLain (INTJ)
"Still Alive" is written by Jonathan Coulton (possibly ENFP)


----------



## Mizmar

Abraxas said:


> @_LeaT_,This is what happens when a Ni-dom starts dancing:


That's pretty similar to my dancing style (which I do in the privacy of my own home) because it feels good to do it, and makes me feel more centered in my body. I'm not nearly as flexible as that guy though. I'm not as jerky either; I prefer sticking to those more flowing sorts of moves that are reminiscent of oozing protoplasm.


> I also find it as no mere coincidence that he (and myself) find this kind of strange and eccentric dance only natural, whilst all the INTJs here on PerC practically worship amebas and jellyfish.


That's interesting to know. I worship at the altar of the Holy Octopus myself.






What do you think of Rachel Brice's style? Her slower dances sometimes remind me of some sort of insect...like a mantis or something:


----------



## Abraxas

@Mizmar,

That video was really cool. The slower movements are definitely more vivid. I might have to incorporate that into my own style somehow. I really like it.

Reminded me of this guy, another big influence on my style:


----------



## Entropic

@Abraxas I'm very uncomfortable with dancing because I feel like I have zero control of my body. I can't watch that video right now but I'm not sure I have to. It's probably reminiscent of how I look like when I do decide to use my body which reminds of a comment I received when I was maybe 10-12 years old and how funny I looked when I was dancing since to me I just made whatever random movements that came to mind, heh. I'm still exploring my relationship with Se though, after I realized I'm likely Ni leading. I get what you mean though. I just "feel" music. I vacillate a lot where I on the one hand am extremely terrified of any sense experience and immersing myself in the sense world because to me that's indicative as a lack of control, and on the other hand I seek out carnal and physical experiences. I love metal shows for example, and I think it's hard to not see how Se driven metal shows are. There's a reason that scholars study the shows as examples of tribalism. But I digress.


----------



## Entropic

I lied. I watched it and yes, not as fluid perhaps (but I assume this part comes from training and practice), but I related a lot to how you moved your hands in your video. It's a bit difficult to compare though since I have no real perception of how I look like to others. Anyway, it appeared reminiscent.


----------



## Elyasis

I'd like to say The White Stripes seem like a Ni-dom band. At least the lyrics do. It's kind of an overall thing.


----------



## Carmine Ermine

Abraxas said:


> Take note of the way that sensation is repressed - he's really not "sensing" what he's doing. It's entirely flowing out of the music and _through_ him, as he's subjectively interpreting the music into movement _intuitively_ without thinking about it, or at least, with only minimal thought. Sensation is only minimally present because to be too focused on sensation would lend his movements a more choreographed appearance. Intuition is necessary for the improvisation which is happening on the spot in real-time. Nothing is repeated, even if some of his movements are similar due to the theme which "emerges" from his overall performance.
> 
> I also find it as no mere coincidence that he (and myself) find this kind of strange and eccentric dance only natural, whilst all the INTJs here on PerC practically worship amebas and jellyfish. See the similarity? I believe this is due to the "fluidic" and dynamic nature of Ni, which is never "stuck" in anything objective, but rather, constantly changes to reflect the mercurial nature of the unconscious psyche.
> 
> I myself do this kind of dancing as well, for a hobby and for exercise.


That kind of dancing seems impossible to me! I guess Ni-inferiors need lots of choreography?

I find that thinking can gradually improve my confidence and skill in physical activities, but my best performance is either if I have no time to think and just rush in or if I've fully thought it through and imagined it so there's nothing left to think about. If I've only half-thought it thorough the performance is worst.

I even use this in bowling - if I think about it or take my time, I often end up failing and making myself feel unconfident but if I just run and fling the ball without giving myself time to think, it ends up usually getting a high result. I have no idea why this should happen or why it does happen.


----------



## Elyasis

*Like my dancing style?*


----------



## Entropic

Elyasis said:


> *Like my dancing style?*







In retrospect, despite being choreographed it also seems slightly Ni-ish when comparing to the stuff above. There's a certain lack of... physical awareness in the performance.


----------



## Entropic

Elyasis said:


> I'd like to say The White Stripes seem like a Ni-dom band. At least the lyrics do. It's kind of an overall thing.


Reminds me of Scar Symmetry as well. Their primary lyrics writer seems to be an Ni dominant type judging the style in which he writes their lyrics. I'd say that the old lyrical themes were more Ni than the newer songs though:


----------



## Elyasis

Anyone else hear a goat bleating in that last link?


----------



## Sparky

Eminem is likely INTJ:


----------



## Aidan

The Smiths
Morrissey is an infj.




Smashing Pumpkins
Billy is an infj.


----------



## Sparky

David Bowie (INTJ):





Chris Hadfield (INTJ):


----------



## Surreal Snake




----------



## Sparky

Pharrell Williams (INTJ):


----------



## Who




----------



## Bricolage

Kamishi said:


> In retrospect, despite being choreographed it also seems slightly Ni-ish when comparing to the stuff above. There's a certain lack of... physical awareness in the performance.


There was a kid like Napoleon at my high school; his name was Jamal; still is, unless he succumbed to a horrible boating accident. Everyone loved him, in an ironical way, because he basically just went for it. And I know it's part of the movie's lore, but that kind of routine would incite some kind of extreme reaction, good or bad, cheers or tomatoes.


----------



## Distort

I believe Massive Attack might be an Ni-band, with Robert "3D" Del Naja, its frontman, being INTJ. The only doubt I have is that sampling seems like a rather Ne things to do. 














I think Ni music often creates a specific atmosphere set around a theme by building up the melodies; I don't think it changes around as much like other types of music would, such as Ne, which I think would be more like prog. 


The lyrics too, usually are abstract, and are so subjective and personal to the writer that they typically don't make much sense to anyone else. Here's a couple from MA:


Group Four

* *





A flask I drink of sober tea
While relay cameras monitor me
And the buzz surrounds it does
Buzz surrounds
Buzz surrounds


Closed eyed sky wide open
Unlimited girl unlimited sigh
Elsewhere
Indefinitely
Far away
Magnifies and deepens
Ready to sing
My sixth sense peacefully place on my breath
And listening


Keys swing from my hand 


My ears know that my eyes are closed


Perish thoughs like contraband
I train myself in martial arts
As advertised
I reinforce my softened parts
As advertised


See through me little glazed lane
A world in myself
Ready to sing
My sixth sense peacefully place on my breath


Flickering I roam


And listening
My ears know that my eyes are closed
Ready to sing
My sixth sense peacefully place on my breath


Flickering I roam


And listening
My ears know that my eyes are closed


I see to bolts 
For key to locks
No boat are rocked
I'm free to roam
Among dummy screens
And magazines


Closed eyed sky wide open
Unlimited girl unlimited sigh


To think that I lay next to you
Wasting time when I could do
A simple job in strip lights
A flask I drink a sober tea
'Till daylight sends me home
Flickering I roam


Daydreaming admiring being
Quietly, open the world
I hear the time of the starry sky
Turning over at midnight
Seen through me little glazed lane
A world in myself
Daydreaming admiring being
Quietly, open the world
I hear the time of the starry sky
Turning over at midnight





Butterfly Caught

* *





Weightless falls
Honeysuckle
Strangers
Strange this
Light from pages
Paper thin thing
Protected by the naked eye


Pearly sunrise
Nearly worn
Kneeling like a supplicant


Darkened skin
Afraid to see
Radiate
Open lips
Keep smiling for me


Darkened skin
Afraid to see
Radiate
Open lips
Keep smiling for me


Weightless cool
Honeysuckle
Fair skin
Freckles
Uncut teeth
Tranquil eyes
Bite my lips!
Bite my lips
Under your feet




I think there is a certain 'style' of writing that Ni provides. Sometimes it might seem like nonsense or appear random to the listener, but the connections and meaning have been interpreted so subjectively that this kind of thing is the end result. These might also be a good example of Ni-Te songwriting, because of how to-the-point they are.


----------



## smoonly

INTJ, But I can't view the video


----------



## Bardo

MrShatter said:


> I believe John Lennon is an INFJ 9... so throw in a couple of the Beatles into this thread
> Also, I don't believe typing based on lyrics is very accurate. Stay cool everyone


George Harrison is the INFJ, Lennon was an INFP, Mccartney an ISFP and Ringo was ESFP. It was IxFP power that drove the beatles for the most part, when you listen to Harrisons music it has much less emotion and more along the lines of themes and patterns in the songwriting and melody lines.
Harrison ignited the progsanity of the beatles later work and was off making friends with Ravi Shankar and getting taught the sitar and meditating and whatnot. That's how we roll.



SharkT00th said:


> I'm disappointed with this thread, Ni-dom singers and No one posted this!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> James Maynard Keenan is clearly an INXJ (leaning towards T).


Maynard is an ENTP haynds down.


If you want to see an INFJ musician look no further than HE HIMSELF.


----------



## hydrogen

PJ Harvey hasn't been mentioned in this thread yet?! INFJ, if anything.












There are a couple of her most commercial successes - she's got a lot of underappreciated gems, too.


----------



## Sparky

Richard Ashcroft (INTJ)
Richard Ashcroft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## KraChZiMan

I usually associate Introverted Intuition with something mysterious. When Extroverted Intuition builds up something, it's quite obvious where the idea begins, where it goes to, how it began, from where came the inspiration, the Introverted Intuition is very gradual process and gives absolutely no cues or regards to anything. When Ne-doms are pissed off by this constant secrecy, the Ni-doms point out to a source of their inspiration, but it serves a troll purpose, because Ni-doms never keep track on sources that envoke their inspirations, dreams or goals, they rather keep eyes on the evolution of ideas, where the loose ends tie up to tangible "master plans".

Ni-doms seem weird to Ne people for that regard. As much as I have experienced, Ni-doms are not programmed to actively seek inspiration, because their inspiration is kind of self-referential, and forms magically, when dozens of little thoughts blend together into something that can be told out loud. 

The thought processes are also very different. It seems like Ne singers are most interested in finding the best way possible to convey a specific idea or feeling, while Ni singers are most interested in finding the best way possible to invoke a specific idea or feeling. It means that Ne songs intend to express specific meanings or ideas independently while Ni songs intend to express meanings or ideas that only develop meanings when they are in a category, along with other ideas. 

With that being explained, here are some songs that connect with Ni-doms.

This song has very strong INTJ vibe within. All around INTJ-esque from music video and instrumental to lyrics and overall style. The mysterious and unexpressive, but aware and conscious man walking around a dull neighborhood where he realizes in the end that this dullness is all stuck in his mind, and when he perceives a little colour around him, the dullness suddenly disappears and everything becomes interesting and inspirational.


* *












The songs with strong INFJ vibe. NIN goes under INFJ strictly because there is a very strong focus on creating a strong emotional atmosphere that wants to affect people to feel certain moods, but doesn't convey the mood directly, like Ne songs, and does not convey the mood through narrating meaningful observations, like INTJ songs.


* *












This song is classical INFJ theme. Very brooding and dark, almost in a manner of resting your back against the cold concete basement wall that threatens collide with the floor, crushing and morphing you into one with the uncomfortably cold and concrete being, just like the wall. Yet again, the song creates a love-related melancholic feeling, but does not present any metaphors that all point to a narrow, well-defined meaning.


* *


----------



## Sparky

Atsushi Sakurai (INTJ)

Atsushi Sakurai - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Buck-Tick - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia






Lyrics:
http://xxxholic.wikia.com/wiki/Kagerou


----------



## Surreal Snake




----------



## Naama

hydrogen said:


> PJ Harvey hasn't been mentioned in this thread yet?! INFJ, if anything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are a couple of her most commercial successes - she's got a lot of underappreciated gems, too.


PJ Harvey was the first that came into my mind. One of my favorite woman artists


----------



## Sparky

hydrogen said:


> PJ Harvey hasn't been mentioned in this thread yet?! INFJ, if anything.
> 
> There are a couple of her most commercial successes - she's got a lot of underappreciated gems, too.


I get the impression that PJ Harvey is ENFP.










Another music video from INTJ, Atsushi Sakurai of Buck-Tick:


----------



## Vanishing Point

Carmine Ermine said:


> That kind of dancing seems impossible to me! I guess Ni-inferiors need lots of choreography?
> 
> I find that thinking can gradually improve my confidence and skill in physical activities, but my best performance is either if I have no time to think and just rush in or if I've fully thought it through and imagined it so there's nothing left to think about. If I've only half-thought it thorough the performance is worst.
> 
> I even use this in bowling - if I think about it or take my time, I often end up failing and making myself feel unconfident but if I just run and fling the ball without giving myself time to think, it ends up usually getting a high result. I have no idea why this should happen or why it does happen.


My exact experience with bowling. I was winning until this guy decided to teach me how to bowl. Being too polite really hurt my overall score as I could only bowl well when he wasn't looking by tossing the ball my way. When he was looking I tried to appear appreciative of the pro tip and throw the thing the right way and missed. Lol!
I only have my own experience as reference, but I did perform regularly with an ESTP and they once told me they look in the mirror at home and practice some choice impressive "moves" they use on stage. I just do whatever I do. feedback: "She (me) looks like a crazy wild woman. It's like she's just nuts!" Or "Betty Boop" ...so a somewhat hot and bothered crazywoman with is probs most accurate description of my stage presence... 
In terms of movement us two are about as all over the place. ESTP is controlled and dynamic and I'm an angry disheveled ferret.



Elyasis said:


> *Like my dancing style?*


Like mine for sure...


----------



## Sparky

Don't know his name, though he is INTJ:
https://www.facebook.com/BarbarianRebellionRadio
PoliceStateRadio - YouTube


----------



## Sparky

Kyary Pamyu Pamyu, INTJ:
Kyary Pamyu Pamyu - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia






Not sure if mentioned already, because this is Rie Tanaka, INTJ:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rie_Tanaka


----------



## Surreal Snake




----------



## Bardo




----------



## Antipode

This song paralyzes me in pure Ni for some reason.


----------



## Deftodon

I think Ni is apparent in basically all Gojira songs, so I'll just post a whole album:






Joe Duplantier has to be INFJ.

Link for lyrics: GOJIRA lyrics


----------



## Sparky

Serj Tankian, System of a Down, INTJ - Chop Suey!:


----------



## Sparky

Nicki Minaj, INTJ - Super Bass:


----------



## KraChZiMan

Sparky said:


> Nicki Minaj, INTJ


----------



## Sparky

Here is another video from Lana Del Rey, INFJ - Video Games:


----------



## Surreal Snake




----------



## Sparky

Trent Reznor, of Nine Inch Nails, is INTJ - The Hand That Feeds


----------



## Sparky

Jack Hues (INFJ) and Nick Feldman (INTJ) of Wang Chung - Dance Hall Days:


----------



## somnuvore




----------



## dulcinea

Am I the only one who gets a strong INFJ feel from the band "The Most Serene Republic"? They sound so deep and cerebral, and expansive. I would hear their songs and think: "This sounds like INFJness to me!"


----------



## Word Dispenser

This song is from my huzzfriend's collection. Not necessarily Ni.


----------



## Vanishing Point

An INFP on an NF music thread listed this as INFJ. Can't remember where to death of me. I would agree though.


----------



## gestalt

Word Dispenser said:


> This song is from my huzzfriend's collection. Not necessarily Ni.


I'm not sure of his type, but I am still pretty sure he was Ni dom.


----------



## Word Dispenser

gestalt said:


> I'm not sure of his type, but I am still pretty sure he was Ni dom.


​Win!

Came across as Ni-Te-Fi to me. Soo very Fi. Argh. roud:


----------



## gestalt

You've gotta love angry intj






I think Fripp wrote these lyrics too, somehow. Music is definitely his. He's definitely INTJ.


----------



## Sharprooth

Yay, another Ni in music thread. I'll make a thread about the strange feelings I have when I'm listening to "Ni-vibe" music, so I'm really happy I found this one.


----------



## Sparky

I want to share another song from Jack Hues, INFJ. The music video is interesting, because the woman magician is ENTJ.

Jack Hues, INFJ - Don't Be My Enemy


----------



## Sparky

Till Lindemann, of Rammstein, is INTJ - Sonne:


----------



## Sparky

gestalt said:


> I'm not sure of his type, but I am still pretty sure he was Ni dom.


I would not discount Dmitri Shostakovich as being INTP.
Dmitri Shostakovich - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Another song from Rammstein (Till Lindemann, INTJ) - Du Hast:
The woman in this music video appears to be INTP.


----------



## Sparky

Jon Bon Jovi, lead singer of Bon Jovi, is INTJ - Livin' On A Prayer
Jon Bon Jovi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Sparky

David Lee Roth is INFJ - Yankee Rose 
David Lee Roth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yankee_Rose_(song)


----------



## Stelmaria

How do you know all of these people are of those types?


----------



## Lemxn

I'm pretty sure he's a Ni-Dom.


----------



## Bardo




----------



## Randomasd

Tuomas Holopainen is a NF, that's for sure and I got a strong INFJ impression from him. I can't really discern Ne/Ni, but Fe is there specially on the end of this song.


----------



## Lemxn

Anthony Kiedis: Confirmed INFJ.






Edit: I also believe John could be a Ni-Dom


----------



## DeadlyRefridgerator

Ihsahn seems like an INTJ to me:


----------



## Lemxn




----------



## yet another intj




----------



## Velasquez

Lemxn said:


> Anthony Kiedis: Confirmed INFJ.


Confirmed by whom, exactly?


----------



## Sparky

Snow Leopard said:


> How do you know all of these people are of those types?


Same reason how I type your avatar's leopard as INTJ. It is by viewing how much they are similar to other members of their personality type. A feeling is harder to describe with words, though if you place an ESTP in a room of INTJ, then that ESTP would appear different. Similarly, if you place an ISTJ in a room of ENFP, the ISTJ would stand out. 



Lemxn said:


> I'm pretty sure he's a Ni-Dom.


I have typed Radiohead's lead vocalist, Thom Yorke, as INTJ:
http://personalitycafe.com/cognitive-functions/139079-songs-ni-dominant-people-8.html#post3734607




Velasquez said:


> Confirmed by whom, exactly?


Pretty sure Anthony Kiedis is INTJ:
Anthony Kiedis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Red Hot Chili Peppers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Sparky

Miley Cyrus, INTJ - When I Look At You:
Miley Cyrus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia






Brandon Flowers, INTJ - Crossfire:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandon_Flowers


----------



## Sparky

Elaine Paige, INTJ - Don't Cry for Me Argentina
Elaine Paige - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Surreal Snake




----------



## Sparky

Gerald and Bob Casale are INTJ, from the band, Devo:
Gerald Casale - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Devo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Gerald Casale, INTJ - Whip It:


----------



## Lemxn

A friend just made listen to this and holy mother of Ni.


----------



## googoodoll

*Sparky, Sparky, Sparky.*:laughing:


----------



## Surreal Snake




----------



## Sparky

Mike Lamond, or HuskyStarcraft, is INTJ - Nerdy and I Know It (LMFAO Sexy and I Know It Parody) ft KurtHugoSchneider:
HuskyStarcraft - YouTube
Mike Lamond - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia






Kurt Hugo Schneider is INTJ - Banelings (Justin Bieber - Baby PARODY) ft HuskyStarcraft / KurtHugoSchneider
Kurt Hugo Schneider - YouTube
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Hugo_Schneider


----------



## Sparky

Leonard Cohen, INTJ - Hallelujah:
Leonard Cohen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Hallelujah (Leonard Cohen song) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia






Lyrics:
* *






> I've heard there was a secret chord
> That David played, and it pleased the Lord
> But you don't really care for music, do you?
> It goes like this
> The fourth, the fifth
> The minor fall, the major lift
> The baffled king composing Hallelujah
> 
> Hallelujah, Hallelujah
> Hallelujah, Hallelujah
> 
> Your faith was strong but you needed proof
> You saw her bathing on the roof
> Her beauty in the moonlight overthrew you
> She tied you to a kitchen chair
> She broke your throne, and she cut your hair
> And from your lips she drew the Hallelujah
> 
> Hallelujah, Hallelujah
> Hallelujah, Hallelujah
> 
> Baby I have been here before
> I know this room, I've walked this floor
> I used to live alone before I knew you.
> I've seen your flag on the marble arch
> Love is not a victory march
> It's a cold and it's a broken Hallelujah
> 
> Hallelujah, Hallelujah
> Hallelujah, Hallelujah
> 
> There was a time when you let me know
> What's really going on below
> But now you never show it to me, do you?
> And remember when I moved in you
> The holy dove was moving too
> And every breath we drew was Hallelujah
> 
> Hallelujah, Hallelujah
> Hallelujah, Hallelujah
> 
> Maybe there’s a God above
> But all I’ve ever learned from love
> Was how to shoot at someone who outdrew you
> It’s not a cry you can hear at night
> It’s not somebody who has seen the light
> It’s a cold and it’s a broken Hallelujah
> 
> Hallelujah, Hallelujah
> Hallelujah, Hallelujah
> 
> You say I took the name in vain
> I don't even know the name
> But if I did, well, really, what's it to you?
> There's a blaze of light in every word
> It doesn't matter which you heard
> The holy or the broken Hallelujah
> 
> Hallelujah, Hallelujah
> Hallelujah, Hallelujah
> 
> I did my best, it wasn't much
> I couldn't feel, so I tried to touch
> I've told the truth, I didn't come to fool you
> And even though it all went wrong
> I'll stand before the Lord of Song
> With nothing on my tongue but Hallelujah
> 
> Hallelujah, Hallelujah
> Hallelujah, Hallelujah
> Hallelujah, Hallelujah
> Hallelujah, Hallelujah
> Hallelujah, Hallelujah
> Hallelujah, Hallelujah
> Hallelujah, Hallelujah
> Hallelujah, Hallelujah
> Hallelujah





Jeff Buckley, INTJ - Last Goodbye (Edit)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_buckley


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## Sparky

Ozzy Osbourne, INFJ - Dreamer
Ozzy Osbourne - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia






Ozzy Osbourne, INFJ - Hole In The Sky
Black Sabbath - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Arclight

Whole lot of SFPs being called Ni doms here.. Performance art is the realm of SFPs after all. 

Sparky is clearly an extremely subjective person who is in love with his own opinions. Bless him is all I can say.


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## Sixty Nein

I wish we could all love ourselves as much as Sparky loves himself.


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## Sparky

Arclight said:


> Whole lot of SFPs being called Ni doms here.. Performance art is the realm of SFPs after all.
> 
> Sparky is clearly an extremely subjective person who is in love with his own opinions. Bless him is all I can say.


How do you call finding similarities among members of a personality type, subjective? It is very much a learning process.

On an unrelated note, I feel Kurt Hugo Schneider is an INFP, not INTJ as mentioned earlier.

http://personalitycafe.com/cognitive-functions/139079-songs-ni-dominant-people-18.html#post4691607



Sixty Nein said:


> I wish we could all love ourselves as much as Sparky loves himself.


Do you mean I'm in love with the INFJ personality type? I also love the other personality types, because an INFJ could not have found himself, has it not been for others.


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## Sparky

Sameer Gadhia, INFJ, (Young the Giant) - Cough Syrup
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_the_Giant






Sameer Gadhia. INFJ, (Young the Giant) - Eros


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## Pyroscope

Idlewild strike me as a band that contain a hefty dollop of Ni:


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## petite libellule

Roger Waters should really be the only INFJ worth posting about. :tongue:


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## petite libellule

OK, George Harrison was an INFJ too I think. :kitteh:


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## Sparky

Another song from Lana Del Rey, INFJ - Born to Die:
Lana Del Rey - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Surreal Snake




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## Sparky

Ayla Brown, INFJ - The Star-Spangled Banner
Ayla Brown - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia






Billy Joel, INTJ - Just The Way You Are
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Joel


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## Sparky

Scott Stapp, of Creed, is INTJ - Higher
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Stapp


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## jagstang

John Frusciante (INFJ)
Tons of interesting songs, can't link cuz of post count.
Away and Anywhere, Mascara, Remain, Untitled 12


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## Le9acyMuse

Tim Kasher of Cursive. Dude exudes INFJ vibes just from the sight of his lyrics, and from how he titles his works. I mean, really... Titles include:

_Such Blinding Stars for Starving Eyes_
_The Storms of Early Summer: Semantics of Song
A Career In Transcendence
Some Red-Handed Sleight of Hand
_
I found his word style similar to my own. I found an interview, and I'd totally called it. INFJ, bona fide.

I recommend "Warped the Wood Floors" (not on YT), and anything else from their 1st album, but you may like their follow-ups. Here's another from the same album.


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## Sparky

Sam Martin, of Youngblood Hawke, appears to be INTJ - We Come Running
Youngblood Hawke (band) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Surreal Snake




----------



## Kabosu

It may get me in hot water to suggest it, but I sort of wish we could recreate this thread without the OP's posts. It's less irritating on the non-N-dom ones, but things like grouping Ti and Fi dom together in a thread are about as preposterous.


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## Sparky

Andrew De Leon, INTJ - O mio babbino caro
Andrew De Leon - America's Got Talent Wiki


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## dinkytown

Ozzie osbourne INTJ?
Lana DelRey INFJ?
David Kiedis INTJ?
Miley Cyrus INFJ?

Ha. Haha. Ha. Hahahahaa. Wait, you're serious?


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## Surreal Snake




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## Entropic

These are bands but the lyrics are NiTe, especially Scar Symmetry's (Daylight Dies is more Fi):


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## Entropic

Lemxn said:


> A friend just made listen to this and holy mother of Ni.


I have actually come to think Trent Reznor is an INTP. He's not an INTJ anyway. See the difference between his lyrics and say, that of Daylight Dies' or Scar Symmetry's?


* *




*All We Had*
This pen
The cruelest blade
The power of
Merciless words to endear
With clinched fist clinched teeth
And burning words
I take my leave

Embers
Memories
Charred remnants
Of all that we had
The demise of all we were

Wisdom
Of futile years
Affinity
Ceasing this wintering of me
A final look
One last glance
And the burning words I take my leave

Embers
Memories
Charred remnants
Of all that we had
The demise of all we were





* *




*The Eleventh Sphere*
Through portals of silvery bliss
Exit the flesh, leaving all of this
I travel within, my eyes remain closed
To this body I am but a host
Disconnecting from the body
Behold creation reversed
Internal eyes are opening
The material sphere bursts

Nothing is, nothing becomes
End and beginning unites
Nothing was, nothing will be
Time and space collides
In the eleventh sphere

Awaiting to find it all

I begin an abstract communication
In this eerie civilization
Those who guard these doors
Lie in wait for the aeon of whores
Rejected aspects of our beings
Shunned to this obscure dimension
I am all that I hate
I am everything in this place

Nothing is, nothing becomes
End and beginning unites
Nothing was, nothing will be
Time and space collides
Nothing is, nothing becomes
Nothing was, nothing will be
In the eleventh sphere

Inside this void
A continuum beyond time
Here's no truth, here's no lies
Its darkness brings light
To all those led astray
Now I go, now I leave
Returning to the flesh

[Solo]

Nothing is, nothing becomes
End and beginning unites
Nothing was, nothing will be
Time and space collides
Nothing is, nothing becomes
Nothing was, nothing will be
In the eleventh sphere

Awaiting to find it all




An entirely different way of relating to symbols and symbolism. Trent seems to want to move outward, to connect to other ideas.


----------



## Direct

At least 90% of these people are neither INTJ nor INFJ. 
Are you serious? You truly think that by observing a person for 5 minutes, you can accurately type them?

It took Jung years to type some of his clients. Why? Because he was not making assumptions, speculating, or doing anything similar that has no real basis in reality.


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## Entropic

Direct said:


> At least 90% of these people are neither INTJ nor INFJ.
> Are you serious? You truly think that by observing a person for 5 minutes, you can accurately type them?
> 
> It took Jung years to type some of his clients. Why? Because he was not making assumptions, speculating, or doing anything similar that has no real basis in reality.


According to Sparky, a majority of the world's population is N until proven otherwise.


----------



## VoodooDolls




----------



## Bahburah

Anything Joy Division.





Tera Melos as well, this video is very Ni.


----------



## Entropic

Bahburah said:


> Anything Joy Division.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tera Melos as well, this video is very Ni.


For the first the lyrics are very Pe, for the second the video is also very Pe. These are better example of Ni visuals when presented as a music video anyway (notice focus on symbolism and emphasis on larger-than-life meaning):


----------



## Lemxn

@ephemereality Of course I see the big difference, more in the second lyric, that song is sick. What I thought it was very Ni in the NIN song is the questioning of ourselves, if the things we perceive are even real because no one is actually seeing the same thing as us, beside we know we see totally different from others.


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## Entropic

Lemxn said:


> @ephemereality Of course I see the big difference, more in the second lyric, that song is sick. What I thought it was very Ni in the NIN song is the questioning of ourselves, if the things we perceive are even real because no one is actually seeing the same thing as us, beside we know we see totally different from others.


I don't think that must be Ni though, I mean, to me Ni in a Jungian sense is simply the ability to pick up on primordial images like that and I don't see Trent doing that in that sense in that song. Whatever primordial image he is describing I don't think it's Ni-generated. 

It just seems 5w4-ish to me in the enneagram-sense. One could perhaps argue introversion but that's about it, I think. Another one of my favorite bands deal a lot with lyrics concerning about reality and mental contents but their primary lyricist is not an Ni dom though perhaps tertiary (I lean ISxP for him):


----------



## Sparky

Alex Turner, INTJ - Stuck On The Puzzle
Alex Turner (musician) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Nightchill




----------



## Shadow Land

What About coldplay? They seem to have a very Ni vibe to me. I will put some lyrics as evidence later. Right now im just posing the question.


----------



## Celtsincloset

To me this guy is The Ni-dom Artist: whom after he "bet his life" on his band Bluebeard as a young adult (in the late '90s), emerged as and with years gone by developed further into one of the finest composers you'll ever hear. And I have to say to me it feels like an understatement :laughing:. His singing is actually good too.

Yoshikazu Takahashi

Snow, bluebeard (1998-2002) (2015)




Instant, AS MEIAS (2004-2013)




Wish, RENA (of current)





what a life...


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