# Socionics--"Pretending" to be your dual around other INFJs?



## Cantarella (Sep 3, 2010)

I read something in Socionics about identical relations--that in relationships between identicals, one will often unconsciously adopt certain behaviors of the dual to keep things lively.

I have definitely noticed myself doing this around other INFJs (albeit not all of them). However, I usually find it to be exhausting and somewhat not fulfilling... like I'm being forced to be "fake" because the other person won't meet me halfway in things. It's only been a really enjoyable experience in the company of one or two INFJs who seemed adept at doing the same. When I'm being "pretendy-dual," I notice myself cracking a lot more jokes and, in general, being more detached and more "jovial" as if on principle. It's like being on stage, almost, but just as taxing. After a while, I want to be me again.

One INFJ who tends toward the same patterns has really been an inspiration to me in a lot of ways and shown me that "de-focusing" can be helpful in totally new, alien situations. She really opened me up to the approach when we were working together, saying her secret was: "don't care too much." Funny, she's also a psychologist. 

I think the hardest part about adopting dual behaviors around an identical is when the identical becomes princessy and feels entitled to further accommodation, even demands it, yet refuses to reciprocate. One example: getting stuck for hours in a Michaels with two INFJs and an ENFJ. The INFJs, one whom I'd only just met and the other someone I'd met a handful of times, were absolutely silent, only occasionally speaking up to complain. I got chipper with the ENFJ and started cracking jokes.

Me: "To be honest... this aisle kinda terrifies me."
ENFJ: "Haha! Why, all the yarn?"
Me: "Yeah... It's a _lifestyle_, huh?"
ENFJ: "Yup. Why does it scare you?"
Me: "I don't know... There's just something kinda... absurd about it."
ENFJ: "Like, 'How much pot did somebody have to smoke to come up with this stuff?'"
Me: :crazy:!!! "Yup!"


Sometimes I wonder if astrology has something further to do with identical interactions. The INFJ psychologist and I are both air types. :happy: (Me Libra, her Gemini) My ex, also an INFJ and someone I got along with DISGUSTINGLY well, is a Gemini. We all seem to get a kick out of wacky social situations, whereas my Virgo INFJ friend doesn't, is far more judgmental and a "groupie"--likes to feel "protected" by a group (same with my ENFP Virgo friend...).

Sorry, this is all a bit rambly and it's late, but the bottom line! Faking your dual! Did it, do it, doing it? Deets! :laughing:


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## vel (May 17, 2010)

Sounds about right. I found I was trying to fake some Si in my last relationship, for example by caring for his health and comfort. But I couldn't do it like a genuine Si personality can. I guess you just somehow feel what the other person is lacking and then try to adjust yourself to it, but if it is something that goes outside the scope of your normal personality then it costs you in energy. This is why socionics labels dual relationships to be the best - because then you can just be you, no need to try to be anybody else as you partner's needs a fulfilled by your own natural preferences.


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## mllesentiment (Oct 12, 2010)

Around other INFJs I tend to pull SP Wannabe or whatever explains how I become the funniest person in the room. I have a strange muddled accent which can make anything sound funny. The only other INFJ I know thinks I'm awesome because of this, but he just seems so sad all the time, that I force myself to do this when I'm around him. We don't need two melancholics in the room :crazy:.


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## ChaoticDreamer (Jan 4, 2011)

Oh! I was just thinking about this! I do this SOOOO much ... I absolutly hate it! I had to entertain two other Infj's ( I think)
for 4 hours the other day.. it was horrible! i didn't want to talk too much so that i could give them a chance to say someting.. but they never did! It ended up i was the funny one and practically the only one talking and stuff... ugh. i don't like that side of me. :dry: :frustrating:


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## EmmaLeigh (Aug 14, 2009)

Where are you people finding all of these INFJs?!?

So I have only ever met one in person, so I only have that one experience to go off of. I actually had a fairly different result than y'all. I mirror whoever I'm with, so my personality type usually appears to be a rendition of the person I'm talking to. So I must say I was rather confused talking to an INFJ (what? really? I can be myself? are you sure?) I discovered that I automatically tune out my own personal opinions when talking to someone, filter for any bias when listening. I discovered that I was constantly asking him to explain himself, though when he did it was always exactly what my first inclination was. I had to learn how to go with what I would think after so many years of skipping past that.


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## Cantarella (Sep 3, 2010)

:laughing: I get some of these experiences WAY too well...



ChaoticDreamer said:


> i didn't want to talk too much so that i could give them a chance to say someting.. but they never did


(dies laughing) OMG yes! Actually, until I started talking about this stuff with my INFJ friend who's a Gemini, I used to go into minor social panic over this. But really... I think it comes down to politeness. A polite INFJ, healthy or not, is able to sense their role in a social group.

As for where we're finding each other...  One of my INFJ friends has been a longtime online friend. We just happen to live in the same area, now. The first INFJ I met was a friend of a friend back home, and we started dating. The INFJs I know now are either through online buddies or through ENFJs. :happy:

I think many INFJs who don't know other INFJs anticipate that it's a piece of cake to be together... BUT IT'S SO NOT. XD First of all, you actually have to manage to become their FRIEND first. And then it's like any good friendship--sometimes it's amazing, and sometimes it's infuriating. :tongue:


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## vel (May 17, 2010)

ningyo said:


> I think many INFJs who don't know other INFJs anticipate that it's a piece of cake to be together... BUT IT'S SO NOT. XD First of all, you actually have to manage to become their FRIEND first. And then it's like any good friendship--sometimes it's amazing, and sometimes it's infuriating. :tongue:


Lol too true. I read people compare INFJs to onions. There are many protective sort of rugged layers before you get to the softer juicier center of it. And even the center is layered. So one can just imagine how long it takes for two INFJs to peel each other's layers to befriend one another. One of the guys I knew back in school was INFJ. Back then I was very much into religion and spirituality at that point and was reading and following the teachings of a particular Buddhist sect. He joined some politically active circle with rather weird views and started wearing military boots and black cape around school. We were drawn to each other but at the same time neither of us wanted to take the lead. So we were doing the push-pull dance around each other for years, both pretty confused at the same time.


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## Cantarella (Sep 3, 2010)

vel said:


> Lol too true. I read people compare INFJs to onions. There are many protective sort of rugged layers before you get to the softer juicier center of it. And even the center is layered.


We started out as ESTPs. 'Til we realized we were smarter and more creative than our own kind! Haha, JK, but in all seriousness I almost don't understand the theory that duals operate easily together. Most of my best friends when I was a kid were ESTPs. One's mother was even convinced he and I would get married someday. My mom didn't like the fact that he and I spent so much time together (because he was A BOY and I was A GIRL) but in reality, I knew it would never work out between us. He and I BOTH knew. Because he treated me like crap. And I knew I wouldn't put up with it forever and he knew he wouldn't ever want to stop. Maybe it would've been different if he were a girl?

My current boss is ESTP. It's an interesting relationship. I feel like talking with her is so EASY but the non-verbal communication, and to a degree, the general understanding between us, is way, way off. She's currently in the middle of a divorce. She and I are the only employees working out of our office. We're certainly friends though she's eight years older than I am. Lately I've been putting in a lot of ear time for her. One day we were training a new employee for another store, and my boss was stuck using the rear console. At some point while I was tidying the office she got into a really long rant about her now-ex-husband, and I actually wound up pulling up a chair and acting as a counselor would (I'm a psychology major so I figured it would be good practice, anyway), raising questions about certain sentiments and whatnot. The funny thing is, I understood her words and I kept wanting to address certain statements, but at some point I realized that the wheels in her head were going in REVERSE and what I was saying to her was not actually making sense. It was having the opposite effect of what I wanted it to.

For duals, I feel like we interpret the other's words in such a way that it gives them almost reverse implications. The only time I've felt my boss getting straight down to what I was feeling was when she heard me rationalizing in such a way that I was saying the opposite (yes, we talk A LOT XD we work in an office that deals with loans/money transfers so it gets very quiet and lonely). What makes it a good fit for us is that I like having conversation that helps me think and keeps me from getting too bored with the mundane tasks, and she likes having another person there who makes her job easier and more pleasant in general. But it's never as if we're inspired by each other's efforts or work ethic or anything. All the thanks I get is mostly for being there and for helping out--which I do.

I feel like when you're with a dual you can sometimes be your BEST self, but never ever your true self.

Sorry for the long mess up there... this is just something I've been thinking about quite a bit, lately. :mellow:


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## Cantarella (Sep 3, 2010)

vel said:


> Lol too true. I read people compare INFJs to onions. There are many protective sort of rugged layers before you get to the softer juicier center of it. And even the center is layered. So one can just imagine how long it takes for two INFJs to peel each other's layers to befriend one another. One of the guys I knew back in school was INFJ. Back then I was very much into religion and spirituality at that point and was reading and following the teachings of a particular Buddhist sect. He joined some politically active circle with rather weird views and started wearing military boots and black cape around school. We were drawn to each other but at the same time neither of us wanted to take the lead. So we were doing the push-pull dance around each other for years, both pretty confused at the same time.


Also, just wanted to say that I totally empathize about doing the push-pull dance... Eek. I would always do this with INFJs (and even INTJs to a much lesser extent... and worried about it with ENTJs but they were so... wonderful and open right away :happy until at some point I realized that with some, I WOULD have to take the initiative. It actually mostly worked out on that count--made them feel WAY more comfortable both being themselves and saying the things they would normally hold off on saying in case another might not find it palatable. The issue after is always showing them that you're serious about getting to know them. I've been keeping on one INFJ friend about scheduling movie dates and the like because, I swear, you HAVE to put in the hours with an INFJ to get them to trust you. She and I are already great friends, but I feel like we don't trust each other as much as we could, because all we do is chat.


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## vel (May 17, 2010)

ningyo said:


> For duals, I feel like we interpret the other's words in such a way that it gives them almost reverse implications. The only time I've felt my boss getting straight down to what I was feeling was when she heard me rationalizing in such a way that I was saying the opposite (yes, we talk A LOT XD we work in an office that deals with loans/money transfers so it gets very quiet and lonely). What makes it a good fit for us is that I like having conversation that helps me think and keeps me from getting too bored with the mundane tasks, and she likes having another person there who makes her job easier and more pleasant in general. But it's never as if we're inspired by each other's efforts or work ethic or anything. All the thanks I get is mostly for being there and for helping out--which I do.
> 
> I feel like when you're with a dual you can sometimes be your BEST self, but never ever your true self.
> 
> Sorry for the long mess up there... this is just something I've been thinking about quite a bit, lately. :mellow:


Have you had ESTJ friends or bosses? I feel like this is the type that when you say something it gives them almost reverse implications and vice versa. At first there is certain mutual fascination, but then when you try to work on something together or talk and agree about things the two of you start bumping heads. I agree that you cannot be fully yourself but in comparison my interaction with ESTPs goes down way more smoothly.



ningyo said:


> Also, just wanted to say that I totally empathize about doing the push-pull dance... Eek. I would always do this with INFJs (and even INTJs to a much lesser extent... and worried about it with ENTJs but they were so... wonderful and open right away :happy until at some point I realized that with some, I WOULD have to take the initiative. It actually mostly worked out on that count--made them feel WAY more comfortable both being themselves and saying the things they would normally hold off on saying in case another might not find it palatable. The issue after is always showing them that you're serious about getting to know them. I've been keeping on one INFJ friend about scheduling movie dates and the like because, I swear, you HAVE to put in the hours with an INFJ to get them to trust you. She and I are already great friends, but I feel like we don't trust each other as much as we could, because all we do is chat.


I think all Ni doms/auxiliarties have a propensity to do this, but with extraverts it is less expressed. I noticed I enter the same kind of push-pull motions with ENFJs too but they are just more expressive so it is easier to overcome.


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## virgilio2203 (May 5, 2010)

ningyo said:


> I think the hardest part about adopting dual behaviors around an identical is when the identical becomes princessy and feels entitled to further accommodation, even demands it, yet refuses to reciprocate. One example: getting stuck for hours in a Michaels with two INFJs and an ENFJ. The INFJs, one whom I'd only just met and the other someone I'd met a handful of times, were absolutely silent, only occasionally speaking up to complain. I got chipper with the ENFJ and started cracking jokes.
> 
> Me: "To be honest... this aisle kinda terrifies me."
> ENFJ: "Haha! Why, all the yarn?"
> ...



Umm.. We (the ENFJs) are really bad telling jokes... I'm sure that he was trying to make the most out of the situation.. Sorry but I didn't catch if you were trying to say something nice/rude about us  
(and yes are spying your INFJ blog always)


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## Cantarella (Sep 3, 2010)

virgilio2203 said:


> Umm.. We (the ENFJs) are really bad telling jokes... I'm sure that he was trying to make the most out of the situation.. Sorry but I didn't catch if you were trying to say something nice/rude about us
> (and yes are spying your INFJ blog always)


ENFJs rock.  Actually, I was describing an instance where I turned ESTPish around an ENFJ and two very, very quiet INFJs. XD

I love how ENFJs get all gung-ho about some things... like parking. Cracks me up. :happy:


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## magister343 (Jan 3, 2011)

Why has no one pointed out yet that MBTI and socionics are _not_ interchangeable. The order of functions is different (especially for introverts, as the j points the strongest function being T/F rather than the strongest judging function being extroverted) and the definitions of some functions (Fe and Fi are essentially swapped completely, and Se and Si partially) are different. The Socionics INFj is closer to an MBTI INFP than an INFJ, but there is no one to one correspondence.


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## virgilio2203 (May 5, 2010)

ningyo said:


> ENFJs rock.  Actually, I was describing an instance where I turned ESTPish around an ENFJ and two very, very quiet INFJs. XD


I know that we rock  ! ! ! 
I wish that more INFJs would momentary open up and start being more extrovert.. is the only thing that keeps you guys from being perfect.. (just don't spoil it like we (the ENFJ) did)


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