# Please help me type myself. Fi-Se (ISFP) or Ti-Se (ISTP) ?



## itselly (Jun 6, 2015)

These two types really confuse me!!! What are the major differences?

I know about the streotypes, ISFP is a hipster artist who likes music and dancing, while ISTP is a person who can fix everything and is into cars, sports, hunting and guns.

But when it comes to everyday life...like my own life, I can't tell the difference...Specially when it comes to emotions & feelings.

Cuz again "stereotypically", ISFP is sensitive and emotional, while ISTP is thick skinned, confident and cold.
But what if I'm going through a rough time or some sort of crisis?
What if I'm going through depression?

Then how can I know which one I am?
(Feel free to ask me questions if it helps you type me)! 


I sort of know what Se is & how it works. But Idk how it worksl when it's next to Fi or Ti.

So...how would you describe an ISFP girl & an ISTP girl?


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## Prada (Sep 10, 2015)

@itselly First of all, if you really want to get into MBTI, forget ALL stereotypes you ever hear. Because they're dumb. Functions have nothing to do with your hobbies.

As for Ti vs. Fi discussion, this can be very complicated since they both can act in similar ways. It's much better to focus on Fi vs. Fe and Ti vs. Te differences as Fi-Te and Ti-Fe always go hand in hand.

As for questions:
Do you prefer to express your emotions or not? If so, do you feel better afterwards? Do you need it to deal with your feelings? is it easy to talk about negative feelings or not?

In a group conversation, do you prefer to protect your beliefs and morals or is the peace within group more important? How do you deal with it when someone disagrees with you on something you consider important? Would you say that you have clear idea of right and wrong or are you easily influenced by what others think?

How do you "learn"; do you try to collect as much external (books, internet, advice etc.) information or do you prefer to analyse everything and make your own conclusions? How is it easier for you to learn; to be told how something works directly or to separate the thing into small details and understand them separately?


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## itselly (Jun 6, 2015)

@Prada , thanks alot for your help!:happy:


Prada said:


> @itselly First of all, if you really want to get into MBTI, forget ALL stereotypes you ever hear. Because they're dumb. Functions have nothing to do with your hobbies.
> 
> As for Ti vs. Fi discussion, this can be very complicated since they both can act in similar ways. It's much better to focus on Fi vs. Fe and Ti vs. Te differences as Fi-Te and Ti-Fe always go hand in hand.
> 
> ...


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## Prada (Sep 10, 2015)

@itselly In your answers you show strong Fi and Se. Not so strong Te (which makes sense since it's an inferior function for ISFP). 

I see big amounts of Fi in the first 6 answers. For you, it's difficult to talk about emotions and you also find it uncomfortable. So you prefer to avoid talking about them in general. You're also willing to fight for what you believe and have your own morals which are more important to you than harmony in a group.

Te is mainly about gaining information from external sources which you do and you also do it to learn things. Compared to that, Ti would learn by taking apart the subject, analysing it and trying to understand the parts separately. Inferior Te usually has a drive for efficiency and can be ambitious.

You also show strong Se in the last answer. You need to process new things by senses (you specifically mentioned sight) and try it out on your own.

So, I lean to ISFP.


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## Coyote (Jan 24, 2012)

@itselly

Both Fi and Ti are introverted judging functions, so it's understandable that you might get confused. I would recommend that you don't worry about the auxiliary function, but spend some time thinking about your inferior function. 

The order of importance is dominant->inferior->auxiliary, with the inferior revealing some of your worst traits. How do you act when you're in a terrible mood? What buttons can people push to make you angry, sad, etc.? Ti-Fe and Fi-Te can look very different.

As a Ti-dom, my inferior Fe can make me an absolute bitch. I'll try to meet your social standards, then I'll realize it's really stupid to care about someone else's standards. Screw you, I'll act how I want. But then I'll feel ashamed and suck up to you ... until I resent you because I care what you think. I'll decide that I no longer care, which isn't really true but I can sure as hell act like it. And on and on and on. It's my weak spot. If you ever want to hurt me, Fe is the best weapon.

In contrast, Ti is my safe haven. All I care about is whether I make sense to myself. If an argument satisfies the idea I wanted to explore, then I'm good. If not, I'll keep thinking about it until I've found a solution. Other opinions barely register because I'm only trying to please myself. You can't hurt me there.

That's the mark of a dominant function: total confidence. I don't trust my feelings, so they have a push-pull quality to them. But my thoughts? Those are ME. I imagine that Fi-doms are the opposite. Their feelings (not emotions, but deep convictions) make them who they are. You can't make them doubt what they believe, but forcing them into a rational debate would probably bring out their worst qualities.

Can you relate to either Ti-Fe or Fi-Te? If not, it's possible that you're a different type (maybe Se-dom, since you seem so sure of SP).


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## The Dude (May 20, 2010)

itselly said:


> These two types really confuse me!!! What are the major differences?
> 
> I know about the streotypes, ISFP is a hipster artist who likes music and dancing, while ISTP is a person who can fix everything and is into cars, sports, hunting and guns.
> 
> ...


Happy reading... 
Temperament Part 2: The MBTI's 16 types and Cognitive Functions 
Understanding the Archetypes involving the eight functions of type (Beebe model)


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## itselly (Jun 6, 2015)

Coyote said:


> @itselly
> 
> @Coyote, thanks for your help!!!
> 
> ...


■when I'm in a terrible mood (sadness), I get more withdrawn, I just prefer to lay dawn or sit and think about how miserable and trapped I am. I can't see a good future & all I can think of is negative things! sometimes sensory things like browsing pictures of food, doing picture quizzes or going downtown can make me not think about it for a while, but it doesn't mean that the problem's solved or that I'm out of that mood. Music can make me feel worse! although I love music, Whenever I'm sad/depressed & I listen to music, (Idk how to say it but...) I kind of have a mental video clip of all the bad things that has happened to me, all my limitations,regrets, etc, just like a dramatic movie or one of those touching videos singers have for their music videos. & then I start feeling lonely, unloved, scared of future, awkward, alone, left out, etc.

However, if my terrible mood is something like stress (like stress for my grades or failure, or even future) I get totally stressed out, prefer not to show it, but might want to be indirectly around others for a while, if I'm around very close and trusted ppl, I might inform them that I'm having stress and I'm disappointed of future. & then after that phase, I start feeling like the first thing I said above! 

There is a rare terrible mood that appears when I'm bored. This happens when I have lack of sensory stimulation (going out, travelling, adventure, new food or drinks, etc). Only my very close family members see this side of me. But I get very angry & blunt & critisize others for being lazy or etc and tell them what's in my head (about them) but after a while I regret it.



Coyote said:


> @itselly
> What buttons can people push to make you angry, sad, etc.? Ti-Fe and Fi-Te can look very different.


■angry? 
by telling me what to do and limiting me!
by asking for my help and not returning it or not thanking me!
by not returning the money they borrowed!
by not being outdoorsy

■Sad?
by not including me (excluding me & making me feel left out or unloved)
by gossiping behind my back
by giving me cold stares or being rude to me
by mentally abusing me!





Coyote said:


> @itselly[/MENTION
> As a Ti-dom, my inferior Fe can make me an absolute bitch. I'll try to meet your social standards, then I'll realize it's really stupid to care about someone else's standards. Screw you, I'll act how I want. But then I'll feel ashamed and suck up to you ... until I resent you because I care what you think. I'll decide that I no longer care, which isn't really true but I can sure as hell act like it. And on and on and on. It's my weak spot. If you ever want to hurt me, Fe is the best weapon.
> 
> In contrast, Ti is my safe haven. All I care about is whether I make sense to myself. If an argument satisfies the idea I wanted to explore, then I'm good. If not, I'll keep thinking about it until I've found a solution. Other opinions barely register because I'm only trying to please myself. You can't hurt me there.[/QUOTE]
> ...


■I think I can relate to a bit of both. for example for what you said about Fi-Te, I do have some beliefs, some ideas, etc. to me...they might be rational, & some of them might be the result of me,researching about it, analyzing it, or seeing the problems in the society. NO ONE can change my belief or opinions, unless I MYSELF see a new thing about it and then I change my mind. Sometimes I might hide my idea. Or if ppl insist too much, I might even lie to them that I have changed my mind. But then I do what I want to do and believe in what I always believed in.

(For example, you tell me that a religion is good/bad. I don't & wont care about what you said and wont change my opinion, unless I see something in it myself that makes me change my mind...like if it has bad leaders who secretly use ppl, or having too many irrational or limiting beliefs. Or not having a good history, etc.)

Or I have some liberal ideas (like about LGBT rights, abortion rights etc)! NO ONE can change my belief & I might even get secretly angry if I see that ppl don't believe in them. Like when I'm watching a drama series on TV, and the woman secretly decides to keep the baby without his ex/bf knowing or wanting it, or when the bf/husband or others tell the pregnant woman that she should keep the baby even though she doesn't want to, I start feeling very angry!!!

See these are my beliefs. I'm confident about them, even if I decide that I'm not comfortable about debating them. Or even if I don't openly act on them or mention them to others. NO ONE can make me change them. *but the problem is...Idk if it's Fi-Te or Ti-Fe (or even something else) that guides me in this area.



Coyote said:


> [MENTION=273754]itselly[/MENTION
> Can you relate to either Ti-Fe or Fi-Te? If not, it's possible that you're a different type (maybe Se-dom, since you seem so sure of SP).


■If you think that I might be another type, or if you want to ask more questions, feel free to mention it!


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## Saturnian Devil (Jan 29, 2013)

itselly said:


> I think I can relate to a bit of both. for example for what you said about Fi-Te, I do have some beliefs, some ideas, etc. to me...they might be rational, & some of them might be the result of me,researching about it, analyzing it, or seeing the problems in the society. NO ONE can change my belief or opinions, unless I MYSELF see a new thing about it and then I change my mind. Sometimes I might hide my idea. Or if ppl insist too much, I might even lie to them that I have changed my mind. But then I do what I want to do and believe in what I always believed in.
> 
> (For example, you tell me that a religion is good/bad. I don't & wont care about what you said and wont change my opinion, unless I see something in it myself that makes me change my mind...like if it has bad leaders who secretly use ppl, or having too many irrational or limiting beliefs. Or not having a good history, etc.)
> 
> ...


To be completely honest with you, all of the above screams Fi-Te. 

ISTPs don't get angry if people disagree with their beliefs. We don't get snooty and self-righteous if someone else doesn't believe in the same thing we do. Now, if someone gets over-emotional and irrational during a debate and doesn't use logic at all, then we get annoyed. 

For the most part, an ISTP may want to understand why the other person disagrees, but that's about it. Our opinions can be changed if new information is given that proves our initial beliefs to be logically inaccurate. We won't hold on to outdated information once it's proven to be incorrect.

That being said, I think you're an ISFP.


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## itselly (Jun 6, 2015)

Thanks alot @Prada, @Coyote & @Saturnian Devil for answering & helping me! Now I'm kind of sure I'm ISFP.

But I have one more question. It's about inferior function.

ISFP's inf function is Te. Idk if I get it correctly, but shouldn't ISFPs (Te inf) 
get really bossy and blunt when they're really sad,depressed or broken? 

Cuz I might get abit bossy & blunt around ppl close to me "if I'm bored!" 

but when I'm really really sad(not a normal sadness), depressed, broken, failed, etc(grip?) I get emotional, very depressed, quiet, disappointed, I can see no positive future, I lose interest for sensory activities I normally love!, I see myself as a worthless & useless person!

& if it's just emotional or inner issue, I keep it to myself. But if it's about stress, failure, not seeing a positive future & not knowing what to do, I might talk about it (a bit) with someone close to me! & if it's REALLY important & if I'm really hopeless/worried I might lose control of myself and shed afew tears, but I regret it later!

Isn't that inf Fe?


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## Coyote (Jan 24, 2012)

itselly said:


> but when I'm really really sad(not a normal sadness), depressed, broken, failed, etc(grip?) I get emotional, very depressed, quiet, disappointed, I can see no positive future, I lose interest for sensory activities I normally love!, I see myself as a worthless & useless person!
> & if it's just emotional or inner issue, I keep it to myself. But if it's about stress, failure, not seeing a positive future & not knowing what to do, I might talk about it (a bit) with someone close to me!


I dunno, that just sounds ... human. I'm the same way when I'm depressed. I mean, that's kinda what depression is: Loss of hope in the future, loss of interest in your favorite activities, loss of faith in yourself. I would be more interested in what triggers the depressions, and what you lose in the process. 

Are you depressed right now?


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## Prada (Sep 10, 2015)

itselly said:


> ISFP's inf function is Te. Idk if I get it correctly, but shouldn't ISFPs (Te inf)
> get really bossy and blunt when they're really sad,depressed or broken?


No. The way ANY function expresses depends on every person. Inferior function can be expressed in multiple ways however, in general it will be weaker than other functions. Your Te shows in the way you learn and collect information. You also seem to be eager to understand your own functions (collecting information to use it - Te rather than collecting for the sake of collecting - Ti).

The way you describe depression is simply how it works. It has nothing to do with functions. Depressions feels that way even if you use Fe-Ti or Ne-Si. It can also cloud your judgement of your functions because it weakens them by making everything bleak and pointless.


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## Saturnian Devil (Jan 29, 2013)

@_itselly_ 

Considering you're extremely aware of your own emotional state and verbalize them much better than an ISTP would, that's another thing that leads to me thinking you're ISFP. 

And yes you did describe inferior Te and how it sometimes manifests in ISFPs. Doesn't look the same for everyone. Generally speaking, both types might look similar on the surface but beyond that I think there are huge differences in how the inferior function for both types manifests and why. Inferior Te may make unhealthy ISFPs uncharacteristically arrogant and bossy, whereas inferior Fe might make unhealthy ISTPs uncharacteristically overemotional while simultaneously obsessed with logic. It really depends on the individual. Personally, I think the reason why it's sometimes hard to tell which inferior function you have is because both types experience a disinterest with sensory stuff when they are in the grip. Depression, quiet, disappointed. Both SPs feel that. 

However enneagram might influence this. Do you know yours? If you have an 8 in your trifix, this might shed some light on why you get aggressive and bossy when you're not in a good spot.


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## Saturnian Devil (Jan 29, 2013)

Also I have an ISFP friend and when she's not in a good spot, she doesn't get bossy. She just isolates herself and doesn't really talk to anyone. If she does speak, she sounds dead. Angry? Nope. She sounds more apathetic than anything else.


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## itselly (Jun 6, 2015)

Coyote said:


> I dunno, that just sounds ... human. I'm the same way when I'm depressed. I mean, that's kinda what depression is: Loss of hope in the future, loss of interest in your favorite activities, loss of faith in yourself. I would be more interested in what triggers the depressions, and what you lose in the process.
> 
> Are you depressed right now?



Yes! One of them is something I prefer not to talk about, but If I want to say it indirectly, I can say that there is something about me (not physical) that I don't like. Sometimes I try to change it or forget about it but I can't. So that makes me feel lonely! However, I keep to myself about it & I deal with it myself. 

The other issue is that I got a few bad grades...in some really important courses. & now I have to wait for my other grades but I don't think my other grades are any better. I'm really hopeless & depressed because of it.

Actually, I don't even like what I'm studying. But it's something kinda good and my family seems to like it.
I know I don't really like it, but I still want to continue it. I'm afraid of failure. I don't want to go for something else, even if it's something I'm passionate about...I'm not brave enough for that.
So I want to improve in what i'm studying.
I feel trapped! I feel stuck in this situation!

My kinda bad grades are making me disappointed. Cuz I got these grades in "very very" important courses!


I guess it's these two! There might be other minor factors too! Idk I'm just confused about my depression!


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## Saturnian Devil (Jan 29, 2013)

Sounds like you're bored with whatever it is that you are studying, but are mostly doing it because you might not want to disappoint your family. Feel free to correct me if I'm off the mark. 

I dunno. But it does sound a lot like you're more concerned about your grades because you're subconsciously worried that your folks might be upset. Which is completely understandable, assuming that's the case.


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## itselly (Jun 6, 2015)

Saturnian Devil said:


> Sounds like you're bored with whatever it is that you are studying, but are mostly doing it because you might not want to disappoint your family. Feel free to correct me if I'm off the mark.
> 
> I dunno. But it does sound a lot like you're more concerned about your grades because you're subconsciously worried that your folks might be upset. Which is completely understandable, assuming that's the case.


Yes! You nailed it! I guess you're right!


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## Saturnian Devil (Jan 29, 2013)

itselly said:


> Yes! You nailed it! I guess you're right!


I guess your post about that kind of hit home for me because I used to be too worried about keeping the peace that I'd sacrifice my own needs. All that did was make me unhappy in the long run, but then I started doing what I wanted to do. It's hard to just rebel like that sometimes so I understand your dilemma.


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## itselly (Jun 6, 2015)

Yeah it's hard. & I think @Saturnian Devil , you're so brave for doing that and going for what you're interested in!

Sometimes I want to go for a big change & do what I want to do! But when it comes to taking a step and actually doing it, I get scared.

Cuz although I don't really like what I'm studying, I can't forget about past and how hard I tried for it.
I can't forget about my family, relatives & friends. I don't want to disappoint them & I don't want them to question me in their head!

Also, I don't want to "leave and quit it" due to bad grades or because I "have to"! Then I'm a loser! 

That's why I'm upset! It's been a while, so I'd rather continue what I've already started!


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## ferroequinologist (Jul 27, 2012)

itselly said:


> Thanks alot @_Prada_, @_Coyote_ & @_Saturnian Devil_ for answering & helping me! Now I'm kind of sure I'm ISFP.
> 
> But I have one more question. It's about inferior function.
> 
> ...


The Te comes out more when we are cornered, or forced into decisions we are not ready to make, or when too much is going on, and --again--we feel cornered. Otherwise, yeah, I go into myself.

But on the other hand, the stress-reaction of ESFPs would be to shut down more than to get all bossy, intense. Some of this also depends on things like upbringing, age, etc.


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## itselly (Jun 6, 2015)

ferroequinologist said:


> The Te comes out more when we are cornered, or forced into decisions we are not ready to make, or when too much is going on, and --again--we feel cornered. Otherwise, yeah, I go into myself.
> 
> But on the other hand, the stress-reaction of ESFPs would be to shut down more than to get all bossy, intense. Some of this also depends on things like upbringing, age, etc.


So you suggest that I might be ESFP?


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## ferroequinologist (Jul 27, 2012)

itselly said:


> So you suggest that I might be ESFP?


No. I'm not suggesting anything. just offering you perspective.  The only things we know about you are what you've told us. Only you can know you. You get to choose.


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## itselly (Jun 6, 2015)

ferroequinologist said:


> No. I'm not suggesting anything. just offering you perspective.  The only things we know about you are what you've told us. Only you can know you. You get to choose.


The more I analyze it, the more confused I get!
Cuz then I realize that I use ALL functions.
Even the functions ISTPs & ISFPs don't really use.
that's why I prefer to ask!


*Sometimes I'm in a situation that I see lots of possibilities (usually negative ones)! Or sometimes I can say the pros & cons of things, but can't decide which way to go or which one to choose! (Ne)

*Sometimes I remember past memories and get happy or sad about it. & I might even question my past and ask myself why something happened the way it happened! (Si)

*Sometimes I care about what ppl think of me and I prefer to stay quiet in order not to hurt someone or get hurt or hated! (Fe)

*Sometimes I think about things & analyze ppl or what they say in my head! (Ti)



But I think according to how you described ESFP & ISFP's grip (in bad situations), my inferior looks like Ni more than Te! 



But when I look at my dom & aux functions & myself, I kinda think that I can't be a Se dom! 
Yes, I can sometimes be sensual (into sensory activities related to 5 senses!), but I think I still have a function before that, which makes me an Introvert dominant person (most likely Fi or Ti dom).



So maybe, what I describe as grip of inferior function, is actually loop, not grip! Maybe it's Fi-Ni loop!...Or Ti-Ni loop!?!?


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## ferroequinologist (Jul 27, 2012)

itselly said:


> The more I analyze it, the more confused I get!
> Cuz then I realize that I use ALL functions.
> Even the functions ISTPs & ISFPs don't really use.
> that's why I prefer to ask!
> ...


The place to start is to ask yourself, not how you are in every situation, but how you are when you are most yourself. When you are able to just let go--take off your shoes, and kick back and be yourself? Do you prefer at that point, to be more introverted or extraverted? What makes you feel alive? Going and doing things? Being around people? Or being alone, maybe puttering or doing something with your hands, but not "out there"? A true extravert tends to associate more with other things than with what is going on inside the head. In fact, in my experience, forcing an extravert to introspect about themselves tends to stress them. Making them sit still, do nothing, not talk, not be active is stressful to them. An Introvert, on the other hand, prefers to turn inwardly first, and tends to need a time away from doing and focusing on other things. Doing things and being with other people are things we may enjoy, but they are not how an introvert would identify. 

Once you figure that out, the next thing to ask yourself is how do you prefer to approach the outer world? Do you prefer to set things in order (not necessarily physical order, but mental order--structured), or do you prefer to take advantage of things as they happen? Those who tend to prefer order also tend to prefer to use words to do so, and not so much action. On the other hand, those who prefer to take advantage of things as they happen tend to prefer to be shown than told how to do things, and may prefer to do them themselves, but with guidance. 

Again, the above items are how you _prefer_ to do things, when nobody is putting any pressure on you to act in a certain way. Ignore how you are with your parents, or rather, ask yourself if how you behave around them is simply because that's what they seem to expect or if you truly prefer this. 

And for another tactic, ask yourself a couple other questions. How do you prefer to communicate, with concrete language, and more about concrete things? or abstractly, and about concepts and non-material things? What draws your attention or appeals more? Simile ("she's as cold as ice") or more metafore ("all the world's a stage")? Also, do you prefer others to speak literally, factually, specifically? Or more generally, categorically and theoretically and analogically? Which would be more of a drain or boring to you?

Second question, Do you prefer to use things like tools (literal tools, but also things like computer programs, or less obvious tools like forks, spoons, knives, or cars, or bicycles, or anything you manipulate) in ways that are strictly within their purpose? Or are you willing to improvise in your use of tools, and sometimes make others frustrated, upset or scared by how you utilize a tool? Does Bob Ross using house-painter's paintbrushes and spatulas fascinate you and give you ideas? or does it seems silly or somehow "wrong" to you? 

I'll stop there. I've said enough for one post.


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## Prada (Sep 10, 2015)

itselly said:


> Cuz then I realize that I use ALL functions.


That sounds as if you were a human being... eww.

Of course you do! Everyone uses all functions, otherwise Se users won't be able to remember anything and Ne users would be constantly hitting things and people because they would be unaware of their surroundings. Fi would never care what others think and Ti wouldn't be able to learn from external sources. 

Which, I hope, you can see it's just stupid. The functions aren't this or that. They're a scale. You also use aspects of your shadow functions (the other four). MBTI just says which functions you have preference for and you use the most. For example, I often analyse situations, things around me and conversations and want to know how things are working. I also enjoy taking things apart. But I do this very rarely and it's a conscious process. Not something I do automatically but something I learned and developed. This is where I have trouble with maths. I find it very easy to memorise theory and equations but in problems, I'm terrible. I just cannot see the logic behind it and I don't care about details. My focus is the *conclusion* it brings me to, which I want to achieve asap. While Ti user focuses on the* path *to the solution and sees lots of teeny tiny details in it. I see the *big picture*. Because to me, details are just that, details, unimportant in the big picture unless they disturb it, then they need to be repaired. A Ti user would consider *details* to be more important than the big picture.


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## itselly (Jun 6, 2015)

ferroequinologist said:


> The place to start is to ask yourself, not how you are in every situation, but how you are when you are most yourself. When you are able to just let go--take off your shoes, and kick back and be yourself? Do you prefer at that point, to be more introverted or extraverted? What makes you feel alive? Going and doing things? Being around people? Or being alone, maybe puttering or doing something with your hands, but not "out there"? A true extravert tends to associate more with other things than with what is going on inside the head. In fact, in my experience, forcing an extravert to introspect about themselves tends to stress them. Making them sit still, do nothing, not talk, not be active is stressful to them. An Introvert, on the other hand, prefers to turn inwardly first, and tends to need a time away from doing and focusing on other things. Doing things and being with other people are things we may enjoy, but they are not how an introvert would identify.
> 
> 
> ferroequinologist said:
> ...


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## itselly (Jun 6, 2015)

Prada said:


> That sounds as if you were a human being... eww.
> 
> Of course you do! Everyone uses all functions, otherwise Se users won't be able to remember anything and Ne users would be constantly hitting things and people because they would be unaware of their surroundings. Fi would never care what others think and Ti wouldn't be able to learn from external sources.
> 
> Which, I hope, you can see it's just stupid. The functions aren't this or that. They're a scale. You also use aspects of your shadow functions (the other four). MBTI just says which functions you have preference for and you use the most. For example, I often analyse situations, things around me and conversations and want to know how things are working. I also enjoy taking things apart. But I do this very rarely and it's a conscious process. Not something I do automatically but something I learned and developed. This is where I have trouble with maths. I find it very easy to memorise theory and equations but in problems, I'm terrible. I just cannot see the logic behind it and I don't care about details. My focus is the *conclusion* it brings me to, which I want to achieve asap. While Ti user focuses on the* path *to the solution and sees lots of teeny tiny details in it. I see the *big picture*. Because to me, details are just that, details, unimportant in the big picture unless they disturb it, then they need to be repaired. A Ti user would consider *details* to be more important than the big picture.


This post makes me think I'm kind of Te!
I can memorize practical things or general things. But when it comes to details and scientific things, I get very forgetful !!!


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## Prada (Sep 10, 2015)

itselly said:


> This post makes me think I'm kind of Te!
> I can memorize practical things or general things. But when it comes to details and scientific things, I get very forgetful !!!


That sounds like Te but it could also be weak Ti. Definitely not a Ti-dom.


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## ferroequinologist (Jul 27, 2012)

Prada said:


> That sounds like Te but it could also be weak Ti. Definitely not a Ti-dom.


Agreed. ;-) Nor Te dom or aux...


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## Prada (Sep 10, 2015)

ferroequinologist said:


> Agreed. ;-) Nor Te dom or aux...


Indeed.

@itselly The more you say about yourself the more you seem like an ISFP. BTW, something I forgot to mention before, Fi-doms can often act like Fe users (wanting to make people around happy, wanting peace in a group, etc.) with the difference that Fe just do it for the sake of it while Fi-doms usually do it because they feel more comfortable that way and basically, due to a personal conviction that it is the right thing to do, that they should make people around them happy. Fe users just do it without thinking twice but Fi-doms have a reason for it.


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## ferroequinologist (Jul 27, 2012)

Prada said:


> Indeed.
> 
> @_itselly_ The more you say about yourself the more you seem like an ISFP. BTW, something I forgot to mention before, Fi-doms can often act like Fe users (wanting to make people around happy, wanting peace in a group, etc.) with the difference that Fe just do it for the sake of it while Fi-doms usually do it because they feel more comfortable that way and basically, due to a personal conviction that it is the right thing to do, that they should make people around them happy. Fe users just do it without thinking twice but Fi-doms have a reason for it.


Agreed on all the points above.  

About that "having a reason" part. I've infuriated Fe types by asking "why" about their actions, and it seems that really irritates them to ask that. I've honestly never understood why...


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

Who are you? Fi or Ti?

Ti: No one is more qualified to determine the truth than myself.
Fi: No one is more qualified to determine what is morally right than myself. 
Ti has to rationalize. Fi has to reflect. Ti reflects on logic. Fi reflects on morality. 

Ti-Fe types, such as INTP’s, are likely to believe a person must use reason to consider what the correct solution is. They are likely to believe that the solution based on reason is the morally just one. This goes for Fe-Ti (INFJ) to a much lesser degree since the “common good” is prioritized and the reason is secondary. Fe-Ti (INFJ) might use reason to advocate for the common good.

Te-Fi types, such as ISTJ’s and INTJ’s are likely to believe that a person can discern what is morally correct through objective facts and by reflecting upon individualized principles. They are likely to believe that the best solution is the solution represented by facts outside of them. Fi-Te (INFP’s) has this to a lesser degree. They are no less capable, but they prioritize the “rightness” discovered within themselves. They make appeals to facts in the outside world.


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## Prada (Sep 10, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> Ti: No one is more qualified to determine the truth than myself.
> Fi: No one is more qualified to determine what is morally right than myself.
> Ti has to rationalize. Fi has to reflect. Ti reflects on logic. Fi reflects on morality.


This is how Ti and Fi behave, yes, but the users wouldn't say that unless they were narcissistic.


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## itselly (Jun 6, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> Who are you? Fi or Ti?
> 
> Ti: No one is more qualified to determine the truth than myself.
> Fi: No one is more qualified to determine what is morally right than myself.
> ...



Then I think I usually use Fi and Te functions. I need facts outside of me to make to make a good decision, but I might not do this ALL the time & sometimes my inner feelings or values can also effect the result.

But I sometimes use Ti too.
_____________Example:______________________________________________

For example I was talking to an INFP person I know in real life (she knows she's INFP), we were talking about family/relatives & respect.

She believed that we should respect family members (specially the ones older than us) and do whatever they say just because they are family and older. and even if they treat us bad or kind of abuse , we should respectc them and keep in touch with them and love them. And they always know what's best for us, no matter what!!!

But I told her "respect and love is something family/relatives earn. I respect/love them if they deserve it. If they do things that shows that I can love them, trust them & respect them. If they abuse me, or make me feel bad, then I need to reconsider things. Then I will either defend myelf or start hating them & I will cut them out of my life if I can. If they're toxic or abusive, I don't need to respect them as relatives just because they are relatives. & If they do something bad to me, I will not stay quiet about that. And I do not care about their age!!!


((Again, by "I don't have to respect them, they have to earn my respect!", I don't mean that people have to do whatever I say or be extremely Ideal to be respected by me. "Usually", If ppl treat me normal or in a good/fair way, I treat them the same way!
but If I see that they're toxic, then I either do something about it, or if I see that my direct action will make things worse (or if I'm afraid to talk), Then I cut them out of my life.))


& yes! I value my family. Sometimes I think I would even die for them (to save them)! But the ones I love and respect, are not just loved because they're family. I have cut my relationship with the toxic/abusive ones and I don't even miss them.
the ones I have are the ones I would really call family.
____________________________________________________________


See, I use a combination of them in my actions. But I guess I use Fi-Te alot more.
Am I right?


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## itselly (Jun 6, 2015)

Prada said:


> Indeed.
> 
> @itselly The more you say about yourself the more you seem like an ISFP. BTW, something I forgot to mention before, Fi-doms can often act like Fe users (wanting to make people around happy, wanting peace in a group, etc.) with the difference that Fe just do it for the sake of it while Fi-doms usually do it because they feel more comfortable that way and basically, due to a personal conviction that it is the right thing to do, that they should make people around them happy. Fe users just do it without thinking twice but Fi-doms have a reason for it.



by far the best explanation for Fi/Fe difference (when it comes to actions!)
I really needed this!


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

> But I sometimes use Ti too.
> _____________Example:_____________________________ _________________
> 
> For example I was talking to an INFP person I know in real life (she knows she's INFP), we were talking about family/relatives & respect.
> ...


No I didn't see any Ti. Your beliefs come from a value system-Fi. Would you agree? I would say you are an ISFP over ISTP


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## itselly (Jun 6, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> No I didn't see any Ti. Your beliefs come from a value system-Fi. Would you agree? I would say you are an ISFP over ISTP


Really? then thanks for mentioning that.
I always thought these kind of things are Ti before!

But just out of curiosity (&if you don't mind), could you plz tell me how I would act (like in my "family example") if I was a Ti & Fe user?


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

Well, remember ISFP's first function is Fi. ISTP's first function is Ti and inferior function is Fe. The dominant Ti's feeling-Fe has different motivations and is subdued from being inferior. 

Fe one big motivation= feeling/absorbing other's emotions. Empathizing tactic is to absorb the other person's raw emotions. 
Fi one big motivation= following their own ethics. Empathizing tactic is to put themselves in other person's shoes. 

An INTP-uses inferior Fe, I know has the ability to accommodate to how others are feeling since he has Fe. So if he see's he's being too forward then he changes his behavior to make the other person more comfortable. Why does he do this? Because he feels/absorbs that person's negative emotions and doesn't want them to feel like that anymore. 

Ti= no one is more qualified to determine the truth than myself+ Fe= feeling/absorbing others emotions. 

So if we apply Ti and Fe to your family example, we would probably see you say "That's not true" using your own internal logic and then absorb someone's emotions. So say if you go around a family member "that hates" you (though I'm assuming that's not true) you would literally absorb that person's hatred and then decide what you want to do. 

Or when you had that conversation with friend you would say "That's not true" using your own internal logic and then absorb your friends emotions-let's say she's angry, so you feel her anger and decide how you want to respond.

So Fi and Fe can come to the same conclusions but the journey will be different. This is why determining which feeling function you use can be difficult.


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## Prada (Sep 10, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> Well, remember ISFP's first function is Fi. ISTP's first function is Ti and inferior function is Fe. The dominant Ti's feeling-Fe has different motivations and is subdued from being inferior.
> 
> Fe one big motivation= feeling/absorbing other's emotions. Empathizing tactic is to absorb the other person's raw emotions.
> Fi one big motivation= following their own ethics. Empathizing tactic is to put themselves in other person's shoes.
> ...


You make Fe sound as if it was some sort of magic that reads people's minds. Fe users sometimes do mimic feelings of other people but only when the other person makes those feelings obvious (feelings can be misunderstood or misinterpreted). They don't just feel the feelings of other people. Also, the way you describe Fe behaviour is not in general just very specific case. Fe users are as likely to accommodate others' feelings as they are to abuse/ignore them. This is very idealised Fe and sounds more like a very selfless Enneagram 2 Fe-dom. 

@itselly As for Ti-Fe in your example, Ti-dom will always focus on the logic of the situation. "Is this logical?" is something a Ti-dom would be asking themselves. A Fe user would ask "How can I achieve harmony and make all sides happy?". A Ti-dom in your family situation would try to find a logical conclusion that satisfies all sides. They would take apart the situation, try to understand it and figure out what to do to achieve harmony. Sometimes, it can even be leaving the household. They would want to be liked by their family and want it to work. But they would focus on finding the logical solution to the problem. They would want to understand why things are the way they are and what they should do to make everything better.

Fi-Te on the other hand would ask themselves "What is the right thing to do in this situation?" "Do I have any evidence to confirm that?" "Am I making the right decision?"


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## itselly (Jun 6, 2015)

Prada said:


> You make Fe sound as if it was some sort of magic that reads people's minds. Fe users sometimes do mimic feelings of other people but only when the other person makes those feelings obvious (feelings can be misunderstood or misinterpreted). They don't just feel the feelings of other people. Also, the way you describe Fe behaviour is not in general just very specific case. Fe users are as likely to accommodate others' feelings as they are to abuse/ignore them. This is very idealised Fe and sounds more like a very selfless Enneagram 2 Fe-dom.
> 
> @itselly As for Ti-Fe in your example, Ti-dom will always focus on the logic of the situation. "Is this logical?" is something a Ti-dom would be asking themselves. A Fe user would ask "How can I achieve harmony and make all sides happy?". A Ti-dom in your family situation would try to find a logical conclusion that satisfies all sides. They would take apart the situation, try to understand it and figure out what to do to achieve harmony. Sometimes, it can even be leaving the household. They would want to be liked by their family and want it to work. But they would focus on finding the logical solution to the problem. They would want to understand why things are the way they are and what they should do to make everything better.
> 
> Fi-Te on the other hand would ask themselves "What is the right thing to do in this situation?" "Do I have any evidence to confirm that?" "Am I making the right decision?"



Then I'm like the 2nd one! In these types of situations, I don't really think about "how to achieve harmony and make all sides happy"! Cuz if I dislike the person, it means they've done something to me, or they've done something that was strongly against my values.
so then I wouldn't be thinking about their happiness.
I would be thinking about MY happiness and the ppl I care about.

But in a different social situation & with different ppl, If I was kinda hurt by them (indirectly) & I was unsure of whether they like me or not (mixed signals) & I really cared about them, then I would also ask myself lots of "Whys" and "hows" before giving up!



What made me think I might be Fe is that sometimes ppl's feelings or actions can effect me and my mood.

If I go somewhere and meet a group of like-minded ppl who are warm, kind and nice to me, pay attention to me, and that we share interests, have similar lifestyles/values and our social habbits are alike,and they seem to like me, I would feel safe there, & although I'm an introvert and prefer being alone, I would be eager to meet them more and go do things with them!
Then after that meeting, I would go home and be happy about my day & those ppl.

Even if I go to a place with firm system but equality and respect, I would be fine.

BUT...If I go to a place with very few to no like-minded ppl, and realize that those ppl are good with eachother and inside their cliques, but treat me in a different way or cold way, keep secrets from me, aren't sincere, act uncomfy around me, and if we have nothing to talk about, have different ways of communicate, are too extrovert, other ppl get all the attention & no one seems to care about me, & I can't make friends there, I get depressed. I may try hard to read their face and body language. I may misinterpret them, get depressed/anxious. I would realize that I can't be myself around them. I would become quiet and mysterious around them. I would get heartbroken and I would go home with low energy and depression everyday.


Yeah, While I don't seem to need it, a person's positive feelings toward me can make me feel good, and the opposite of that could make me feel depressed.

I sometimes think about what others think about me. Sometimes I don't express myself, don't share my true opinion,don't complain or don't openly defend myself cuz I'm too shy to do that, & I don't wanna make them angry with me, and it's not because of them. It's because I don't want them to hurt me (physically or with their words).

& sometimes I can't say a firm "NO" and have to find passive aggressive ways to say No indirectly!
________________________________________





It's not that all of these conditions happen to me everyday! I actually thought about all Fe related conditions of my life. I just had this question and had to ask it before officially typing myself ISFP.


■because, whenever I ask ppl this question, no matter what other things I say, they tell me that I I'm INFJ or ENFJ!!!
So it seems to be tricky!

@Prada , I'm so sorry that I ask too many questions! It's just that this part has made some ppl think I might be INFJ in the past!
I promise, this is the last question I ask!
I want to be sure about being ISFP!


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## itselly (Jun 6, 2015)

am I still an ISFP?


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