# Numbness with antidepressants



## sink (May 21, 2014)

So, I've been prescribed mirtazapine for depression/anxiety and to help me get some sleep again. While it did help me with the latter (I'm actually oversleeping again), I feel numb to everything. Like I'm kind of floating and don't really fully exist. I don't really feel motivated to do anything at all. The only feeling that I get is irritability that is very intense at first, but then dissipates quickly again.

I've been on it for a few days, so I'm just wondering if this eventually goes away or not. I'm aware that I need to give it time to fully work. Has anyone had any experience with this particular drug? How long does it take for things to stabilize?


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## xraydav (Jan 3, 2013)

sink said:


> So, I've been prescribed mirtazapine for depression/anxiety and to help me get some sleep again. While it did help me with the latter (I'm actually oversleeping again), I feel numb to everything. Like I'm kind of floating and don't really fully exist. I don't really feel motivated to do anything at all. The only feeling that I get is irritability that is very intense at first, but then dissipates quickly again.
> 
> I've been on it for a few days, so I'm just wondering if this eventually goes away or not. I'm aware that I need to give it time to fully work. Has anyone had any experience with this particular drug? How long does it take for things to stabilize?



i was on medications both anxiety drugs (which are you on?) I’ve also worked in pharmacy and in health centres, so i have a little background to give advice. 

Though, do visit your GP again, and discuss dosage (who prescribed it to you?), numbness may be a side effect you get used to when you start, if it persists over time, ask for dosage changes. 


I’ll give you the advice my psychiatrist gave me. (The best one) Taper off medications if it is anxiety/depression or any other anxiety related disorder (i.e. OCD), because the no.1 treatment for these disorders or issues are psychoanalytic+CBT treatment , or mindful awareness, not pharmaceutical drugs. Leave pharmaceutical drugs for people with BPD and schizophrenia (psychosis, etc). 

I had OCD, PTSD and suicidal depression (suffered a major depressive episode), and had to try other options when I was 17. I took anxiety meds to deal with the after effects, however, the numbness and attention problems, caused by the drugs gave me so many side effects, that got in the way of work and relationships, I lost, more than I gained. Profits came in after (As will for you)

Psychological treatments got me straight back on track and I am effectively cured or treated of all such issues (which I had cured years later). Do this instead, but if you want to stay with the prescription, just keep going and you will get used to it biologically. If you believe the dosage is too high(and you should ask yourself this), *check with your GP as stated earlier and tell them that dosage may be too high. (It happened to me, it could happen to you)


*


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## xraydav (Jan 3, 2013)

sink said:


> So, I've been prescribed mirtazapine for depression/anxiety and to help me get some sleep again. While it did help me with the latter (I'm actually oversleeping again), I feel numb to everything. Like I'm kind of floating and don't really fully exist. I don't really feel motivated to do anything at all. The only feeling that I get is irritability that is very intense at first, but then dissipates quickly again.
> 
> I've been on it for a few days, so I'm just wondering if this eventually goes away or not. I'm aware that I need to give it time to fully work. Has anyone had any experience with this particular drug? How long does it take for things to stabilize?


As I always ask people, what do you think the best thing someone else could do is?


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## Belzy (Aug 12, 2013)

sink said:


> So, I've been prescribed mirtazapine for depression/anxiety and to help me get some sleep again. While it did help me with the latter (I'm actually oversleeping again), I feel numb to everything. Like I'm kind of floating and don't really fully exist. I don't really feel motivated to do anything at all. The only feeling that I get is irritability that is very intense at first, but then dissipates quickly again.
> 
> I've been on it for a few days, so I'm just wondering if this eventually goes away or not. I'm aware that I need to give it time to fully work. Has anyone had any experience with this particular drug? How long does it take for things to stabilize?


To stabilize? What do you expect from this kind of drug? Are you expecting only upsides from it?


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## chad86tsi (Dec 27, 2016)

As with most Serotonin targeting drugs, you likely need to give it several weeks to become effective (most SSRI's say 4-6 weeks), and a similar time for some side effects to lessen. I've taken a variety of SSRI's, they all gave me side effects, but not all the same ones. In the end I quit taking them because the side effects impacted life, and didn't work well enough on the depression to justify the new problems that came with the meds. It did give me a break from the chronic depression while I was taking them, that helped me process some therapy, and I was able to make some personal growth during that period. 

When I quit the meds, the depression came back but I was better able to manage it after having that break and experiencing some of that personal growth. The side effects lasted quite a while after I stopped the meds, one symptom lasted 9 months, but it's gone now.

I don't see mirtazapine listed as an SSRI, but it works on the same systems, so it may have a similar profile.


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## sink (May 21, 2014)

xraydav said:


> i was on medications both anxiety drugs (which are you on?) I’ve also worked in pharmacy and in health centres, so i have a little background to give advice.
> 
> Though, do visit your GP again, and discuss dosage (who prescribed it to you?), numbness may be a side effect you get used to when you start, if it persists over time, ask for dosage changes.
> 
> ...


My doctor prescribed 15mg before sleep, which to my understanding is on the lower side of what people usually get. My current situation (which I don't want to go into details) prevents me from going into therapy for the next few months, so I'm definitely going to continue taking the medication for now. It does help me sleep which is something I desperately need, since I was only sleeping around 5 hours before and could not fall back asleep no matter what I tried.

I guess I'm going to wait and see how my body gets used to this. I have another appointment in a month. I read a little more about how other people felt on mirtazapine, and apparently the numbness and feeling generally spaced out/dissociated is a common thing for the first few weeks. I'm definitely going to go into therapy as soon as I can. But for now, I'm going to ride it out. While feeling numb is a bit strange, it also means not feeling all the other bad stuff I was before and overthinking myself into a dark hole.


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## sink (May 21, 2014)

chad86tsi said:


> As with most Serotonin targeting drugs, you likely need to give it several weeks to become effective (most SSRI's say 4-6 weeks), and a similar time for some side effects to lessen. I've taken a variety of SSRI's, they all gave me side effects, but not all the same ones. In the end I quit taking them because the side effects impacted life, and didn't work well enough on the depression to justify the new problems that came with the meds. It did give me a break from the chronic depression while I was taking them, that helped me process some therapy, and I was able to make some personal growth during that period.
> 
> When I quit the meds, the depression came back but I was better able to manage it after having that break and experiencing some of that personal growth. The side effects lasted quite a while after I stopped the meds, one symptom lasted 9 months, but it's gone now.
> 
> I don't see mirtazapine listed as an SSRI, but it works on the same systems, so it may have a similar profile.


Yeah I figured it was going to take a while to take full effect. I was honestly just surprised how much different I felt almost immediately. Hm, I didn't consider the side effects lasting after stopping the meds before, I'll keep that in mind. It's really good to hear that you were able to better manage your depression.

And yes, mirtazapine is not an SSRI, rather an atypical antidepressant.


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## Senah (Oct 17, 2017)

@sink I'm in family practice so I'll give you a few insights, but obviously they are general since I don't know you or your situation at all. I hope you don't mind me writing them out here, but if others find the info useful I thought I'd put it down on this thread since you opened up the discussion

As you already seem to know, mirtazapine (Remeron) is an atypical antidepressant, which still does have the ability to raise serotonin levels in the brain (small risk for serotonin syndrome, so watch for any other medications that raise that, like tramadol etc). It is actually just an antidepressant for major depressive disorder, not specifically for anxiety, however if you are having trouble sleeping and are anxious about it, the sedating side effects can help with both. It does have a somewhat immediate personality blunting effect in my experience. Depending on the person, this may or may not change over time. You'll just have to wait and see, which it seems like you are. It's good you are sleeping, because that is super important. One thing to consider, is that once you are sleeping well, it may give you the energy to get some exercise every day. This releases endorphins into your brain and normally regulates the hormones that help you get better sleep which means you may not need a medication to do so in the future.

Also, make sure you have had your vitamin D and thyroid levels checked because if those hormones are off, you might need them corrected and might not need a strong antidepressant like mirtazapine, but rather something much more mellow. 

There is an increased risk of suicidal feelings with this medication but mostly if you take it and are under 26. Remember even if you can't get to counseling right now (or for anyone else reading) there is always a crisis control hotline or text support. Also, they probably told you and it is winter, but the med does make you much more likely to get a sunburn, so cover up


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## sink (May 21, 2014)

Senah said:


> @sink I'm in family practice so I'll give you a few insights, but obviously they are general since I don't know you or your situation at all. I hope you don't mind me writing them out here, but if others find the info useful I thought I'd put it down on this thread since you opened up the discussion
> 
> As you already seem to know, mirtazapine (Remeron) is an atypical antidepressant, which still does have the ability to raise serotonin levels in the brain (small risk for serotonin syndrome, so watch for any other medications that raise that, like tramadol etc). It is actually just an antidepressant for major depressive disorder, not specifically for anxiety, however if you are having trouble sleeping and are anxious about it, the sedating side effects can help with both. It does have a somewhat immediate personality blunting effect in my experience. Depending on the person, this may or may not change over time. You'll just have to wait and see, which it seems like you are. It's good you are sleeping, because that is super important. One thing to consider, is that once you are sleeping well, it may give you the energy to get some exercise every day. This releases endorphins into your brain and normally regulates the hormones that help you get better sleep which means you may not need a medication to do so in the future.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the response. I do try to force myself to do at least some yoga every couple of days, and I'll try to do that daily now since I am actually getting some sleep. My vitamin D levels have always been low (I have colitis), but I take daily vitamin D supplements and those seem to raise my levels enough.

I do always get suicidal thoughts whenever a new bout of depression hits, but I know not to ever act on them. They're not nearly as bad as they were years ago, and I know how to cope with them now.

I didn't know about the sunburn thing! My doctor didn't mention it, maybe because it's winter? But that's good to know, I'm very pale and can already get a sunburn pretty quick, lol. I'll make sure not to forget my sunscreen.


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## owlet (May 7, 2010)

sink said:


> So, I've been prescribed mirtazapine for depression/anxiety and to help me get some sleep again. While it did help me with the latter (I'm actually oversleeping again), I feel numb to everything. Like I'm kind of floating and don't really fully exist. I don't really feel motivated to do anything at all. The only feeling that I get is irritability that is very intense at first, but then dissipates quickly again.
> 
> I've been on it for a few days, so I'm just wondering if this eventually goes away or not. I'm aware that I need to give it time to fully work. Has anyone had any experience with this particular drug? How long does it take for things to stabilize?


If you have any concerns, I'd say speak to your doctor as they can offer more advice on i.e. dosage. When I went on sertraline, I had a lot of unpleasant symptoms for a couple of weeks (I felt like I had really bad flu) and then it sorted itself out and I felt fine, but that's not going to be the case for everyone.


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## xraydav (Jan 3, 2013)

sink said:


> My doctor prescribed 15mg before sleep, which to my understanding is on the lower side of what people usually get. My current situation (which I don't want to go into details) prevents me from going into therapy for the next few months, so I'm definitely going to continue taking the medication for now. It does help me sleep which is something I desperately need, since I was only sleeping around 5 hours before and could not fall back asleep no matter what I tried.
> 
> I guess I'm going to wait and see how my body gets used to this. I have another appointment in a month. I read a little more about how other people felt on mirtazapine, and apparently the numbness and feeling generally spaced out/dissociated is a common thing for the first few weeks. I'm definitely going to go into therapy as soon as I can. But for now, I'm going to ride it out. While feeling numb is a bit strange, it also means not feeling all the other bad stuff I was before and overthinking myself into a dark hole.



I think you are both strong enough (as you have struggled to both keep your mind healthy) as well as, stable enough (having a focus on keeping your mind healthy), and I believe you should appreciate those character strengths in yourself. Likewise, your mentality is to keep going into therapy and tha takes courage and psychological strength and a truly accepting attitude, to move toward that as you are doing. 

judging from your situation, I believe it’s best to go to your doctor again for a check up on the side effects, just in case, because it’s better to over report side effects than to underreport them. There may be another easier solution, to just toughening it out, but I reckon you are right, that the meds are causing side effects which are common to all for the first few days... I remember I was spaced out in a miserable in an almost suicidal fashion. I couldn’t feel anything, and I complained to people who said I have “anhedonia” or no feeling (which they equated to my original depression at the time) - turns out that was all untrue. it was the meds, and the more I tapered off the meds, the better my life got(alongside the therapy of course). I visited the GP again in this case. Consider it if worse gets to worse. 

i can give you some helpful links for the anxiety/depression . Feel free to fill them out and help yourself . (Don’t over do them, though)

http://www.cci.health.wa.gov.au/docs/BB-7-The End Result.pdf

Focus on the idea of taking “distorted” anxiety perceptions and turning them into more “balanced” perceptions. And identifying thought styles (as we can see here: http://www.cci.health.wa.gov.au/docs/BB-5-Unhelpful Thinking Styles.pdf)

Or p.19 of this - 
https://thehappinesstrap.com/upimages/Complete_Worksheets_2014.pdf this is ACT , therapy, it helps to align your sense of values to the world, let go of negative thinking styles and stick to “the present moment”.


Alongside, what could really help immediately is the asking of the question posed by existential therapy. 

For example, who do you want to be remembered as? What type of person? What type of friend? What type of romantic partner? (I.e. a helpful or supportive husband, or a strong or unique person)

How are you moving toward such things, in your own life? Through what activities, are you showing the world this? What type of long term goals or short term goals have you set for these answers?


(If you need further help with any of the tools, feel free to PM me.)


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## Senah (Oct 17, 2017)

@xraydav has some good insights there.

Along the same lines, also don't be afraid to call the office and speak with the nurse. If you are concerned about side-effects often I am fine with my patients calling in and I either have them talk to my nurse or I will call them back and if appropriate either re-assure them or make adjustments over the phone and have my nurse call them back a few days later. That way they don't have to come in for an appointment. It depends on the situation. Occasionally I even send in a prescription for a different medication and have them follow-up in a week. 

It never hurts to call and chat with someone in the office.


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## master of time and space (Feb 16, 2017)

Firstly I will say this: 

Stop believing the drug company hype promoted by General Practitioners that anti-depressants work. 

They do not! evidence says that therapy has the same clinical outcomes so why take a drug that could damage you

The drugs don’t work? antidepressants and the current and future pharmacological management of depression

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3736946/


In my experience, and that is a lot of years experience, anti-depressants mimic the symptoms of depression. You may be wondering why that might be? 


THE FACTS: STOP TAKING THAT SHIT!!

A small number of children, teenagers, and young adults (up to 24 years of age) who took antidepressants ('mood elevators') such as mirtazapine during clinical studies became suicidal (thinking about harming or killing oneself or planning or trying to do so). Children, teenagers, and young adults who take antidepressants to treat depression or other mental illnesses may be more likely to become suicidal than children, teenagers, and young adults who do not take antidepressants to treat these conditions. However, experts are not sure about how great this risk is and how much it should be considered in deciding whether a child or teenager should take an antidepressant. 


THE BULLSHIT!!!!

The “Myth of the chemical imbalance” is everywhere on this site, all over the internet, in therapeutic environments/communities and psychiatric units, regardless of the fact that scientists have been testing the chemical imbalance theory’s validity for over 40 years–and despite literally thousands of studies–there is still not one piece of direct evidence proving the theory correct. Oh the power of multi-national drug companies self financed drug research


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## Senah (Oct 17, 2017)

Um, @master of time and space has posted a rant that is not true. Like any medication class in layman's terms "antidepressants" covers a huge spectrum of different types of medications, which affect people differently. They can even be more or less effective depending on your genetics (look at current testing in pharmacogenetics). But we have seen them work, and I have seen them work. I have seen them save lives. 
@sink be wary of anyone broadcasting "truths" based on claims that start "in my experience" which means it is totally anecdotal, meaning junk science. Obviously, like I put in my post on the last page, there is a slight increase in risk with some antidepressants of suicidal thoughts in those under 26. Still, many more people are helped in my clinical experience. Does that mean that you shouldn't rule out hormonal issues like Vitamin D and thyroid, which I also mentioned? That you shouldn't exercise daily to prevent hormone imbalances? Of course not - those are all important things to do. But that doesn't mean that antidepressants are needed and often not only helpful and sometimes life-saving for many patients. 

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Just to pre-empt any conspiracy theories, I have no associations with any drug companies, and I don't even give out samples because I've only ever worked in publicly funded community health centers. 

If you guys want some good links about evaluating good vs bad science online:

EVALUATING SCIENCE ONLINE

Six questions that will tell you what media to trust


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## chad86tsi (Dec 27, 2016)

I was able to address my chronic depression with an accidental discovery that NSAID's greatly reduced my depression. One of many causes for depression is chronic systemic inflammation. Boosting my serotonin with meds didn't help a lot, and gave undesirable side effects. There is no universally true answer to the question, including any claim that's it's all garbage made up by corporations to make $$. I've seen SSRI's work well for other family members. 

Find what works for you, and if it's not working try something else. Repeat as needed. Even if it only "kind of works", that is going to make other things work better (therapy, getting exercise, eating better). Most good therapies involve a multi-faceted approach.


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## Senah (Oct 17, 2017)

chad86tsi said:


> I was able to address my chronic depression with an accidental discovery that NSAID's greatly reduced my depression. One of many causes for depression is chronic systemic inflammation. Boosting my serotonin with meds didn't help a lot, and gave undesirable side effects. There is no universally true answer to the question, including any claim that's it's all garbage made up by corporations to make $$. I've seen SSRI's work well for other family members.
> 
> Find what works for you, and if it's not working try something else. Repeat as needed. Even if it only "kind of works", that is going to make other things work better (therapy, getting exercise, eating better). Most good therapies involve a multi-faceted approach.


This is an awesome point - a lot of depression has route causes in chronic disease such as pain, diabetes, etc. If you can manage these it can help hugely. I think at the end of the day the salient point is that every patient and every depression is different, so it is important to find a provider that recognized that and takes a team-based approach. Figuring out what works well for each person and their situation is essential. Nothing should be off the board, and no one should be afraid to suggest something or change course. There is definitely hope out there when neither party gives up.


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## chad86tsi (Dec 27, 2016)

Senah said:


> This is an awesome point - a lot of depression has route causes in chronic disease such as pain, diabetes, etc. If you can manage these it can help hugely. I think at the end of the day the salient point is that every patient and every depression is different, so it is important to find a provider that recognized that and takes a team-based approach. Figuring out what works well for each person and their situation is essential. Nothing should be off the board, and no one should be afraid to suggest something or change course. There is definitely hope out there when neither party gives up.


The link between chronic inflammation and depression was discovered when treating autoimmune conditions like arthritis. Here is one of many links on the topic:

Depression: A revolution in treatment? - BBC News

My discovery was in 2011 after a traumatic back injury that required daily NSAID's to maintain therapeutic activity to regain my strength. After about 6 months I noticed I hadn't had any depression for quite a while, It the first time in my life (since the age of 4) that I had a real break from it. I traced that reprieve back to my back injury. I asked my PCP if there were any known links to treating depression with NSAID's, he had no idea. We just had to write if off an an anomaly. I have been relatively free of depression since (I still take them daily). My family line by history has several autoimmune problems, so I guess I was a prime candidate for this effect.

Sorry to side track, but depression is more complex than some think it is.


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## BranchMonkey (Feb 23, 2017)

sink said:


> So, I've been prescribed mirtazapine for depression/anxiety and to help me get some sleep again. While it did help me with the latter (I'm actually oversleeping again), I feel numb to everything. Like I'm kind of floating and don't really fully exist. I don't really feel motivated to do anything at all. The only feeling that I get is irritability that is very intense at first, but then dissipates quickly again.
> 
> I've been on it for a few days, so I'm just wondering if this eventually goes away or not. I'm aware that I need to give it time to fully work. Has anyone had any experience with this particular drug? How long does it take for things to stabilize?


I'll start by saying everybody's situation and system is different, so this is just one experience, my own:

I was put on mirtazapine (Remeron) because no SSRI worked for my depression, nor did the use of others like Depakote and Neurontin (many others), and some of the SSRIs actually caused me to have suicidal ideations as well as a broken record phrase that kept playing over and over, along with crying jags, "You're worthless, you should die." (This was over more than a 10 year period.)

So my PCP put me on Remeron.

The good news? I didn't feel emotional blunting, didn't have suicidal ideations, I did sleep better. 

The bad news? I gained 25 pounds after developing a craving for--of all things--Krispy Kreme donuts. I ate six at a time, in a 24-hour period, it was nuts. 

Then the positive effects wore off, after three months, bam, gone. But the cravings stayed put, so my doctor suggested increasing my dose. I declined.

I haven't found a pill to combat my depression but my depression started in childhood, growing out of neglect, abuse, living in violent environments, being in and out of foster care, other stuff you don't need to hear about and I sure don't wanna recount.

I do gentle yoga; I walk inside the flat (crazy weather here), do isometrics, weight training and other strength work. And I recently joined a Messianic congregation. (I am a Jew.)

When I can--can't afford it right now--I want to get back into talk therapy once a week. 

I did intensive therapy for three years and it didn't help. In fact, I sweated out of my t-shirts every Monday while sitting in the waiting room, and my particular therapist went from being a full-time, career college English professor to his retirement dream job, which he wasn't cut out for, but I could afford his sliding fee.

So, pay attention to your body's signals; report any symptoms and don't think they're minor--they may be; they may not be. And when you can, search until you find a competent, caring therapist: They're out there.

Consider any kind of positive remedies.

In the end, which means "all along the way," you have to weigh the pros and cons, be the ultimate decision maker in your own life while at the same time learning who to trust to help and who to cut loose because they can't.

Good luck with dealing with this depression.

If you want, send me a PM. It's not easy to talk about this kind of thing out in the open. 

It's vulnerable, of course. And worse: 

Everyone (in his or her own mind) is an expert on what is best for 'someone else's life' which isn't realistic. 

The advice any of us can get in an open forum can too often be harmful, especially if we're already feeling unsure of our ability to filter the sensible from the sensational. 

P.S. As a fun side note? Once I quit mirtazapine, my husband asked one night, "You wanna go get some Krispy Kreme donuts?" I looked at him aghast, said, "Why would I want to do that, I don't even like donuts!" xD


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## sink (May 21, 2014)

Okay a quick update: my depression and anxiety seem to be improving. I sometimes catch myself not thinking about anything, which is bizarre (my mind usually races 24/7). My crying fits after waking up have completely stopped. I don't obsess over minor things at night. I'm still sleeping 10-12 hours a day. However, an increase in dosage may make me less tired throughout the day, which is what my doctor wanted to do anyway (in a month).

I'm still dissociated and numb, but since it does seem to be going in the right direction for my depression and anxiety, I'm willing to put up with the side effects. The irritability is getting better with each passing day. I haven't felt this emotionally stable in months. And that in itself justifies the side effects to me.
@chad86tsi NSAID's make my UC a lot worse, so I need to stay away from them as much as I can. My autoimmune is pretty well managed with medication, but whether I have a flare up or not my depression levels never really changed. It started in my mid teens, but I've had my autoimmune since I was 6. I doubt there's much connection there, in my case at least.
@Senah I don't pay much attention to conspiracy theories, don't worry. I trust my doctor, and trust my body even more. The medication does seem to be working for me, so I'm going to continue with it and see how it goes. Maybe increase the dosage at the end of the first month. Yoga and meditation help somewhat with the physical side of things, but they've never really helped me much mentally, unfortunately. But that doesn't mean I'll stop doing them regardless. Being physically healthy counts for a lot as well.
@BranchMonkey I can relate to the cravings so much, haha. However, an increase in appetite is good in my case, since I am underweight and don't feel like eating when I have a bout of depression. I just ignore my chocolate cravings, lol. I eat a plant based diet, so just eating more veggies is not really bad. I don't mind if I gain a few kilos either. I agree that you always have to weigh the pros and cons. I've always listened to my body first and foremost and then went from there. I think I'll continue in this fashion.


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## BranchMonkey (Feb 23, 2017)

@sink

I'm glad you came back in to answer some people. I was concerned; now I'm not. 

I eat a restricted diet; it's anti-inflammatory and other than sardines once or twice a week, I eat fruits, hummus, tomatoes (only nightshade fruit I can tolerate), almond milk, and something called Manna bread which isn't bread; it is rye sprouts with purified water which is glaumed together after being heated to 115 degrees Fahrenheit. I also eat two small squares of chocolate every few days. Oh, and hard-boiled egg whites--every day, because they are anti-inflammatory; ionce a week I have an egg yolk too because there are vitamins and minerals in it that I don't get otherwise. And avocado. My husband cuts up one (the flesh) into three servings and I have that with the sardines.

Gentle yoga is awesome. I'm glad you do that, and more important--or including that--that you know how to listen to your body; that's vital, so you're doing well. I am not just relieved but encouraged for you.

Be well, Babe. <3


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## master of time and space (Feb 16, 2017)

THERE IS NO RESEARCH TO SUPPORT CHEMICAL IMBALANCE

I will continue to rant until someone actually provides a link to the latest (or any) research that confirms that mental illness is caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain. 

I will reiterate that there is NO evidence to support the chemical imbalance theory. It is just a theory

In the 1980’s the drug company Eli Lilly advanced the chemical imbalance theory as a marketing scheme to sell their new drug Prozac. There was, of course, no demonstrable evidence showing that depressed patients had any imbalance, but Lilly ran with it.

In fact, I have found that the most militant proponents of the chemical imbalance idea to be non-psychiatrists, like social workers and clinical psychologists who cling to the theory as a way of validating their status as "health professionals."

Dr. Mark Graff, Chair of Public Affairs of the American Psychiatric Association said that this theory was “probably drug industry derived.” 

His cohort, Dr. Steven Sharfstein, APA president, was forced under media pressure to admit that there is “no clean cut lab test” to determine a chemical imbalance in the brain. 

Jonathan Leo, associate professor of anatomy at Western University of Health Sciences 
says, “If a psychiatrist says you have a shortage of a chemical, ask for a blood test and watch the psychiatrist’s reaction. The number of people who believe that scientists have proven that depressed people have low serotonin is a glorious testament to the power of marketing.” 

Despite the billions of pharmaceutical company funding in support of the chemical 
imbalance theory, this psychiatric “disease” model is thoroughly debunked. 

The Spurious Chemical Imbalance Theory is Still Alive and Well

https://qz.com/1162154/30-years-aft...ie-that-chemical-imbalances-cause-depression/

Psychiatry DID Promote the Chemical Imbalance Theory


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## BranchMonkey (Feb 23, 2017)

@master of time and space

Your demanding others prove something about chemical imbalance?

You are assuming that everyone disagrees with your premise as opposed to "some of us" have found that medication helps either temporarily or long-term in addition to using other methods to stabilize more than 'mood.'

I've read Thomas Szasz' work, starting with his book, The Myth of Mental Illness, so check him out: He lectured and wrote so much on this topic.

In the meantime, why don't you start your own thread on 'your' position regarding the hazards of Big Pharm, anti-depressants and such ala Peter Breggin.

This thread is for the OP to get support from those who've been on the same medication or otherwise can give support rather than derail the thread which is in The Advice Center.


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## Senah (Oct 17, 2017)

@master of time and space I'm not going to spend a lot of time supplying articles and refuting you because you aren't even doing due diligence on the stuff you are posting. 

For example, the quote you put up:



> Dr. Mark Graff, Chair of Public Affairs of the American Psychiatric Association said that this theory was “probably drug industry derived.”


is "fake news" or whatever you want to call it. The site it comes from is a private entity that tries to make money off people who visit it, as is the second site that has this quote. Also, "Dr. Mark Graff" doesn't exist - he has never been associated with the APA. It is a made-up quote. Feel free to contact the APA to confirm. To even upgrade this to junk science would be generous.

Everything you say starts with "I have found" and "In my experience" - all anecdotal, and at most based on your encounters with the few people you have met in your lifetime. Anyone with a strong grounding in evidence based medicine knows that treatment should be based in research that involves large samples and replicated studies. Saying your reasoning is valid because you went to a few commercial, biased, fake websites and have met a few travelers along the way is...ludicrous. Laugh-worthy if not for the damage it could do to people in pain. 

For anyone who wants to read about the interesting, multi-faceted causes of depression (not all chemical imbalances - lots of other things involved of course, as many people in the thread have already mentioned), this is a great piece from Harvard Health. Check it out.


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## Maybe (Sep 10, 2016)

*Thread Warning

If you wanna debate the validity of Antidepressants, fine. Do it in Debate. Mention each other or something. But not here, it's derailing the thread.*


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## Electra (Oct 24, 2014)

I also felt numb on anti-deps, last time I was on Esitalopram I felt like I cared less, but it did help for the severe panic attacks I struggled with back then. When I took high doses of effexor in the past, I also fet more agressive and got incredible, exstatic dreams ans severe nightmares I have been off it for maybe about...a month or so? :idunno: I still occationally have this feeling of brain zaps actually, even after so long time off...


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## Hollow Man (Aug 12, 2011)

I am taking Effexor (venlafaxine, snri) now,a small dose to start. For the first week or so, I was fairly drowsy and perhaps numb. It helped when I take my meds with a meal. I felt less drowsy. Emotionally, I guess I am more open in a way externally with words. Things had less of a reaction for me, and I think that's a positive thing in a way. But, now I hardly notice anything when I take the meds. Not sure if my dose needs to be raised or not. I will find out, I have an appointment tomorrow that is for a follow up on the prescription.


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## Electra (Oct 24, 2014)

aSK said:


> I am taking Effexor (venlafaxine, snri) now,a small dose to start. For the first week or so, I was fairly drowsy and perhaps numb. It helped when I take my meds with a meal. I felt less drowsy. Emotionally, I guess I am more open in a way externally with words. Things had less of a reaction for me, and I think that's a positive thing in a way. But, now I hardly notice anything when I take the meds. Not sure if my dose needs to be raised or not. I will find out, I have an appointment tomorrow that is for a follow up on the prescription.


Keep us updated!


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## Senah (Oct 17, 2017)

Hang in there guys:heart:

If you need a smile, or a laugh, try this:


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## sink (May 21, 2014)

aSK said:


> I am taking Effexor (venlafaxine, snri) now,a small dose to start. For the first week or so, I was fairly drowsy and perhaps numb. It helped when I take my meds with a meal. I felt less drowsy. Emotionally, I guess I am more open in a way externally with words. Things had less of a reaction for me, and I think that's a positive thing in a way. But, now I hardly notice anything when I take the meds. Not sure if my dose needs to be raised or not. I will find out, I have an appointment tomorrow that is for a follow up on the prescription.


I don't know if you take your meds in the morning or night, but for me it helps to take it right before bed time. That way I can sleep through most of the drowsiness so I'm a bit more alert during the day. Things have less of a reaction for me now too. Situations where I would previously dwell on and stress over for days on end now feel less severe, at least. Sometimes I still get very overwhelmed (especially now that the sedation effect seems to be wearing off). I too am hopeful that with an increase in dose will continue to help me even more. Good luck with your appointment!


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## Tad Cooper (Apr 10, 2010)

sink said:


> So, I've been prescribed mirtazapine for depression/anxiety and to help me get some sleep again. While it did help me with the latter (I'm actually oversleeping again), I feel numb to everything. Like I'm kind of floating and don't really fully exist. I don't really feel motivated to do anything at all. The only feeling that I get is irritability that is very intense at first, but then dissipates quickly again.
> 
> I've been on it for a few days, so I'm just wondering if this eventually goes away or not. I'm aware that I need to give it time to fully work. Has anyone had any experience with this particular drug? How long does it take for things to stabilize?


I was on that and it messed up my system so much - its a non-activating antidepressant so it can cause you to lose energy/be lethargic etc (and in my case made me pass out cause of my low sodium levels)
I found most antidepressants etc take between 2-6 weeks to settle down, but it's very individual! Make sure you look after yourself, take time off work/school/etc and be careful to monitor your mood as they can cause mood dips etc.


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## pwowq (Aug 7, 2016)

sink said:


> So, I've been prescribed mirtazapine for depression/anxiety and to help me get some sleep again. While it did help me with the latter (I'm actually oversleeping again), I feel numb to everything. Like I'm kind of floating and don't really fully exist. I don't really feel motivated to do anything at all. The only feeling that I get is irritability that is very intense at first, but then dissipates quickly again.
> 
> I've been on it for a few days, so I'm just wondering if this eventually goes away or not. I'm aware that I need to give it time to fully work. Has anyone had any experience with this particular drug? How long does it take for things to stabilize?


When I ate the most venlafaxin I noticed I barely could sleep and felt like in a rush/high a few hours per day. I was worried I would crash&burn "any day". Talked with my doctor, got mirtazapine to help calm down my senses for better sleep. Worked fantastic!

Problems with mirta knocking me out day after day, being in a hazy mindset never feeling really awake, started when I began taking less venlafaxin. I stopped taking mirta, felt better after a day! I told my doctor who told me it was expected.

Mirta seems to be a medicine for inducing sleep&chemical powerful calmness. Almost as if you don't have a very active mind&body with too much energy mirta could be the wrong medicine for you.

Try a few days not taking mirta.


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## sink (May 21, 2014)

pwowq said:


> When I ate the most venlafaxin I noticed I barely could sleep and felt like in a rush/high a few hours per day. I was worried I would crash&burn "any day". Talked with my doctor, got mirtazapine to help calm down my senses for better sleep. Worked fantastic!
> 
> Problems with mirta knocking me out day after day, being in a hazy mindset never feeling really awake, started when I began taking less venlafaxin. I stopped taking mirta, felt better after a day! I told my doctor who told me it was expected.
> 
> ...


The daytime drowsiness/tiredness has been subsiding for me. I'm very groggy if I wake up after 9 hours, but after an hour I'm okay. I just have to force myself not to sleep for 12h (even though my body seems to want to, lol). Mirtazapine has helped mellow me out, so it's a welcome side effect in my case. I have a lot of high-strung anxiety with my depression, and I had no energy before the meds. While the energy levels are about the same for me now, I have been more motivated lately. Stuff that I lost interest in before due to feeling bad, like drawing.

I don't think I would ever quit taking this on my own, since I have heard you can get bad withdrawals. And for now it seems to be helping, despite certain side effects (and some of them are slowly going away). I hope you have found something that worked better for you!


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## BranchMonkey (Feb 23, 2017)

@sink

I never had the intense drowsiness with Remeron. I felt great, and darn fast two--unusual according to my doctor; it began working well within a week, tops. Unfortunately for me--aside from intense cravings and excessive weight gain, it stopped working after three months, just as quickly as it had started.

You're right about withdrawals, I had to keep a calendar and come off it bit by tiny bit. I think it took me two months.

So, work with your doctor, listen to your body. I mean if you ever have to--for whatever reason--to withdraw from it, yes, you want to go really really slow, and not suffer too much. I did OK but I was only on it for three months.


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## sink (May 21, 2014)

BranchMonkey said:


> @sink
> 
> I never had the intense drowsiness with Remeron. I felt great, and darn fast two--unusual according to my doctor; it began working well within a week, tops. Unfortunately for me--aside from intense cravings and excessive weight gain, it stopped working after three months, just as quickly as it had started.
> 
> ...


My doctor said if my depression gets better, she wants me to stay on this medication for at least a year, that is if the side effects are manageable. And honestly, even though the side effects are not great, it's better than how I felt before at least? I think my dose may need to be higher since while I might feel a bit better as far as depression/anxiety goes, I still get days where my mood dips a lot. But then again these things take time, so I'm still hopeful, even though I have days where I feel like it's not working well enough.

Did you eventually find something that worked long term?


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## BranchMonkey (Feb 23, 2017)

sink said:


> My doctor said if my depression gets better, she wants me to stay on this medication for at least a year, that is if the side effects are manageable. And honestly, even though the side effects are not great, it's better than how I felt before at least? I think my dose may need to be higher since while I might feel a bit better as far as depression/anxiety goes, I still get days where my mood dips a lot. But then again these things take time, so I'm still hopeful, even though I have days where I feel like it's not working well enough.
> 
> Did you eventually find something that worked long term?


If you are managing your side effects OK and your doctor thinks increasing the dose may help, and you trust your doctor, yep, go for it.

In my case, no medication helped the depression, and that isn't surprising for me because it began literally when I was an infant--taken away from my first family, returned, taken away again, and so on.

Yes, I've found what works but it isn't medication: It's a combination of gentle yoga, prayer, going to a Messianic congregation (I am a Jew), nutrition (a special anti-inflammatory diet) and daily exercise including walking, mat (isometrics), weight training, training and enjoying my companion rats (two girls, so fun, funny, sweet), and working daily toward future goals, bit by bit--not beating myself up (or catching myself when I start) because I am older, didn't get to do so much I had wanted to do.

In other words, it's a mix for me, a lot of work on a daily basis, but it is working.

I hope the best for you. Hang in there. Never give up! There is always something else to add to what you do or something you haven't considered that may help improve not only your mood but your entire life, so be patient with yourself; you're worth it--every human being is worth it no matter how down we get on ourselves or how hard our lives have been.

<3


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## Hollow Man (Aug 12, 2011)

I've had my dose upped for the venlafaxine/Effexor to 75 mg twice a day. Going to try it out for a few months. So far, the transition from 37.5 (twice a day) to 75 dose is going well for me. It wasn't as sluggish as the start. And also, I had weird sleep experiences(vivid strange dreams or almost like an alternate consciousness) I had a number of years ago when I decided to just quit.

I suppose I have a few other things about myself that are kind of encouraging to go with anti-depressants. There's something different about my brain wiring. I am not sure exactly what it is or how to even explain it. But, it's something like a non-verbal learning disability, maybe slightly autistic, maybe ADD-Inattentive....maybe just a slow learner...but, I have really low self-esteem, and the drugs help me speak out a bit and act. Which is essential for life really. I've been caught in a lot of self-doubt for a really long time, and I've just kinda fell and thought I wasn't worth it or good enough to try.


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## Senah (Oct 17, 2017)

This is today's random post on the thread. 

I was feeling wishy-washy this morning and well, perhaps this is generic internet bs but after reading this I feel hella better. 

23 Pictures That Prove The World Isn't A Steaming Pile Of Garbage


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## Potatooesunshinerays (Dec 26, 2017)

stop taking this shit, soon you'll get used to it and this drug won't do for you, you'll go higher and higher with pills until you can't stop
i've had depression for 6 years now and i don't take these shit pills. just meditate or smoke weed


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## sink (May 21, 2014)

Potatooesunshinerays said:


> stop taking this shit, soon you'll get used to it and this drug won't do for you, you'll go higher and higher with pills until you can't stop
> i've had depression for 6 years now and i don't take these shit pills. just meditate or smoke weed


I've had depression for longer than 6 years. I do meditate. It doesn't help me mentally. Weed makes me have panic attacks. Don't go around giving unsolicited advice, especially when it's weed, since weed is known to make anxiety worse in a lot of people. Don't assume that I haven't done everything else that is not medication before.


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## Hollow Man (Aug 12, 2011)

I wanted to make my post longer, but somehow I managed to click post quick reply before I was done. I thought "well, that's enough anyways". Don't want to overthink it. 

I've gotten suitably high once, and it made me make my friend quite nervous. I was super paranoid, and actually one of my biggest fears came to mind. Also, maybe one of my largest insecurities as well (what I mentioned in the last post here actually). I was so worried about losing all the intellectual growth I've achieved that far at the moment. Somehow I communicated this, and made my friend a bit nervous. We were both smoking, and I guess it just hit me a lot harder. I wasn't expecting it. I didn't feel too bad, but I guess I was just talking a bit too much or laughing or something. The usual things kind of happened too I guess. Textures and sensory experience just felt more slow and delayed. Felt more distinct, and I guess I was more there in the moment. 

Also, I wanted to bring up that I am not really sure if my depression is like actual depression. It feels a bit more like anxiety really, and I guess it just tires me out quite a bit and then I get a bit depressed. Kind of a cycle like thing, a lot of negative self-talk. Perhaps I've had some lower episodes at times.


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