# INFP + INFJ mom + ISFP sister = Problems



## historian (Oct 24, 2014)

Do I love her? Yes, we are best friends. But then again, I prefer to jump out of 4th floor with my face hit concrete first than dealing with her paranoid unrealistic advice of life, like: "you should use fake name on social media, people around the world can look up to every single thing you said so it can be threatening" 
OR dealing with her manipulative question like "do you want to shopping with me?" nope, it's not question. I must go because later she will say something that hurt me, like "you are weird, it's holiday you should go somewhere, what are you doing at home anyway, you didn't organize anything here, it's so messy, everything is... God, how can you be a mom when you have no feelings at all?" 
BUT when I really want to go and she's not in the mood, she said, "I'm feeling not to good today", which means "don't go, how dare you left your mom alone".

Is it really all INFJ are like that? I read some stuff about INFJ, they are not too extreme as my mom does. I love her, as best friend. She's great at teaching values and everything. But while it comes at emotion and feelings, she hurts me so many times. And it hurts like hell.

About my ISFP sister, since we've been in the same issues, we hang on together, but there's times when I don't understand her emotion because she doesn't show it, everything I said honestly is hurt her. But it's honesty, it has to be said for her own sake, after all I'm her older sister. But it will hurt her. But I'm her older sister who have to teach values for her. I just dont want to hurt her.
And we deal with this mom issues different way. She can be extremely egoist and doesn't give any damn about what my mom feeling, while I want to make my mom happy even it's hurt me. I dont blame my sis tho. I wont let her go through the same hell of feeling I'm been deal with. But I'm not gonna lie. It's hurt, a lot.

I'm sorry for long post, thanks for reading


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## FromTheWorldUp (Aug 30, 2010)

It's really hard to comment on this because the conflict you're talking about seems to be coming solely from nonverbals and underlying intent. The question "do you want to go to the mall?" doesn't seem inherently manipulative. Some people have a hard time being direct and saying what they really mean. The problems communicating with them just compound if you struggle being clear and direct as well. From what you said you believe you understand what you're mom means but she isn't understanding you. Have you tried to be more clear with her. You have just as much responsibility to make yourself understood as she does to try to understand you.


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## Glassland (Apr 19, 2014)

You make your emotions dependent on other people, which is a problem. People will always hurt you and INFJ's are especially good at manipulating and reading people. Most don't do manipulate for its own sake though.


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## Kebachi (May 27, 2014)

historian said:


> Is it really all INFJ are like that?


Nope, there are always individuals despite MBTI typing. 
I've known plenty of Fi users who were completely self absorbed and selfish (INFP's included), and I've also known really selfless Fi users who were awkward in displaying it, but really cared for others. Their social skills were a bit lacking, but you could tell that they were well intentioned and that's all I really care about. 

Your mom reminds me of my ISFJ mother-in-law who is incredibly manipulative. I'm an INFJ and I'm very direct and honest because unlike a damaged person I truly value harmony, and I think honesty is important in maintaining said harmony. My husband's mother is damaged and tries to control others and force what she thinks is harmony onto her environment. This always winds up making her feel worse as people pull further and further away from her emotionally. So she backs off a bit, acts all pleasant to try and lure people in. Then about a week later she starts pushing, manipulating and eventually raging when she finally pops because she isn't getting her way. She never feels satisfied so the cycle just repeats itself. In her case her tertiary and her inferior are too underdeveloped so she can't figure out what it is she needs to do to break free of the cycle. 

People like that are to be pitied, they're not happy individuals. Hopefully your mom isn't as damaged/underdeveloped as that, and you guys are both just butting heads with your Fi and Fe respectively. Both value completely different things, and I doubt your mom is educated on MBTI.
That could be a conversation starter, one that might even bridge the gap between the two of you. If she really is an INFJ then she'll probably have an interest in anything having to do with analyzing behaviors and people. Why don't you try teaching her about MBTI and the functions? Most specifically the issues that can arise between Fi and Fe. Just make sure you do it in a way that doesn't seem accusatory. After all we all value different things and have a right to those values.


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## lecomte (May 20, 2014)

The more I am interested by INFJ, the more I found them narcissistic... I have the sensation they see their feelings to be the best.

As an INFP, I have also many problems with my ESFP brother: I found him selfish, arrogant and stupid. At the beginning, I was lying to myself in order to not see this flaw because expressing negativity towards my brother causes me bad feeling, but when I realize my brother has bad behavior, I don't fool myself so long. And that's not helping when you have a ENTJ mom that cares much of my flaws. She uses also symbolic violence with me. But I start to debunk that.
The only advice I could give you with my experience is don't tend to be perfect. Not for your mom. Don't try to satisfied her. That can only be destructive. And the part of negativity you don't assume with your sister, express it. You are not a saint, and that's better. Human is made of negativity and it is abnormal to push INFPs to be perfect!

Be an INTJ for a while xD, we have a lot of learning from them. Choose freedom. And come back stronger. You seem to have a lot of truth to say to your family, one day, when you will be ready, tell them.


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## FromTheWorldUp (Aug 30, 2010)

Seriously I think people are being unfairly judgemental of the mom here. I didn't see any manipulation in the examples given. Just because the OP feels bad because her mom was disappointed that she didn't go with her doesn't mean her mom was trying to manipulate her. Manipulation is about getting someone to do what you want through deceit. Her didn't try to trick into going to the mall so there was no manipulation. 

The did nothing more than express her desires albeit somewhat passively. The OP feeling bad for not fulfilling them is a response to her own desire to make her mom happy and not her mom's fault. 

The problem is all the passive communication and lack of communication getting in the way understanding and accepting each others desires.


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## Kebachi (May 27, 2014)

FromTheWorldUp said:


> Seriously I think people are being unfairly judgemental of the mom here. I didn't see any manipulation in the examples given.


Hence why I said it's probably more likely that this is an example of Fi and Fe butting heads.
Also it sounds like she's holding her daughter to a standard and when her daughter doesn't meet that standard she guilt trips her. She's using social etiquette when she turns her commands into requests, but is disappointed when those "requests" go unheeded. Fi users especially view that as being emotionally manipulative. I'm not a fan of it myself and I use Fe.


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## Kebachi (May 27, 2014)

lecomte said:


> The more I am interested by INFJ, the more I found them narcissistic... I have the sensation they see their feelings to be the best.


Have you ever considered that you might be typing others erroneously or that the people you've interacted with could just be unhealthy individuals?

INFJ's get a really bad rap on this forum due to misinformation.


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## historian (Oct 24, 2014)

For years I've decided to run away from conflict with her. Once I tried to talk to her about how I feel intimidate, and she answered "I teach you values of life, to survive in this world when I no longer here, that's exactly what I have to do!" and.. I hurt her. Even sometimes she feel that I dont love her because I'm not used to hug or kiss her like my sister. It's been like this for years, and I think I'm fine. But now it's getting worse, and honestly I'm tired. 
I will be fine in time, maybe. Thank you.


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## historian (Oct 24, 2014)

That idea actually crossed my mind, but as you said she's not interested in MBTI. At all. She once said that "it's theory, you shouldn't 'study' people based on theories. I dont know why you so obsessed with you being INFP". Well... so I just shut up as usual and didnt tell her that the moment I know that I'm an INFP is the only moment I feel like I 'belong' somewhere.


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## historian (Oct 24, 2014)

lecomte said:


> The only advice I could give you with my experience is don't tend to be perfect. Not for your mom. Don't try to satisfied her. That can only be destructive. And the part of negativity you don't assume with your sister, express it. You are not a saint, and that's better. Human is made of negativity and it is abnormal to push INFPs to be perfect!
> 
> Be an INTJ for a while xD, we have a lot of learning from them. Choose freedom. And come back stronger. You seem to have a lot of truth to say to your family, one day, when you will be ready, tell them.


You're right. I'll try not to be perfect all the time. Actually I've been an INTP for a while though XD.


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## historian (Oct 24, 2014)

Honestlyt I dont want to use the word "manipulation" here, but...it is what it is. It's not as manipulative as @Kebachi ISFJ mother-in-law, still..



FromTheWorldUp said:


> The did nothing more than express her desires albeit somewhat passively. The OP feeling bad for not fulfilling them is a response to her own desire to make her mom happy and not her mom's fault.


Yes I'm always feeling bad about it, but for now I dont know the reason anymore. Am I feeling bad because I let her down or because I'm sick of her? And then I'll feel bad just to think that I'm sick of her. Anyway I stop asking "why I feel this" and focused on "how can I get rid of this feeling" which I dont know the answer yet.


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## historian (Oct 24, 2014)

Me baking cookies. mom: "It's delicious, especially when you add no sugar in it"
Me: *still wondering is that sarcasm or she really like it? I don't add sugar because she cant eat too many sugar* "I use honey and brown sugar. The batter taste sweet though." 
Sister: *look at cookies* "I bet it must be bitter" Because she like anything super sweet.

I always think I'm the one who's over sensitive in this everyday conversation. So I just stay quiet and wait for monday when I go back to college and stay in my dorm alone. I always run away and I survive. I dont even know why at this point I feel tired so badly because I've been deal with this for years. Shouldn't I be used to it, instead getting sick of it? 

Anyway for now the best solution is I must "choose freedom" like @lecomte said, in another way 'run', and "come back stronger"


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## Kebachi (May 27, 2014)

historian said:


> That idea actually crossed my mind, but as you said she's not interested in MBTI. At all. She once said that "it's theory, you shouldn't 'study' people based on theories. I dont know why you so obsessed with you being INFP". Well... so I just shut up as usual and didnt tell her that the moment I know that I'm an INFP is the only moment I feel like I 'belong' somewhere.


She sounds stuck in her ways and closed off to new information. She's sounding less like an INFJ to me, and more like an xSFJ. I can't say with certainty because I've never met her nor am I a typology expert. Either way I think you have the right idea to back off a bit and give each other some much needed space. Small doses of interaction will probably help, so long as you don't make it seem like you're deliberately avoiding her.


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## FromTheWorldUp (Aug 30, 2010)

historian said:


> Me baking cookies. mom: "It's delicious, especially when you add no sugar in it"
> Me: *still wondering is that sarcasm or she really like it? I don't add sugar because she cant eat too many sugar* "I use honey and brown sugar. The batter taste sweet though."
> Sister: *look at cookies* "I bet it must be bitter" Because she like anything super sweet.
> 
> ...


Again in this example you're issue was that you were reading into something she said that had nothing negative in the words said. You didn't trust that she really meant what she said but didn't ask her if she did. 

You need to learn how to be more direct with you're family. You can't read into things and take offense and hold it against them without asking what they really mean. You can't expect to feel close to your family if most of the communication is happening in your own head. Family is so much more important than the label of an abstract label you say you can belong to. Give them a chance to clear things up with you. Put your feelings into words. Don't think you know what they mean and feel ask them. Relationships can't heal if either party won't be open enough to say when their hurt. 

If you're mom is really expressing feelings in indirect words she's at least giving some kind of indication as to how she feels. What kind of communication are you giving them? If you can't communicate you're hurt it means you aren't willing to forgive because you're not giving the other person aneeds opportunity to make things right.


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## historian (Oct 24, 2014)

Kebachi said:


> Small doses of interaction will probably help, so long as you don't make it seem like you're deliberately avoiding her.


That's a brilliant idea. The point is how to communicate without hurting each other, and since she doesn't realize anything about that, I must work it out. I believe I can do it, thanks.


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## historian (Oct 24, 2014)

FromTheWorldUp said:


> Again in this example you're issue was that you were reading into something she said that had nothing negative in the words said. You didn't trust that she really meant what she said but didn't ask her if she did.
> 
> You need to learn how to be more direct with you're family. You can't read into things and take offense and hold it against them without asking what they really mean. You can't expect to feel close to your family if most of the communication is happening in your own head. Family is so much more important than the label of an abstract label you say you can belong to. Give them a chance to clear things up with you. Put your feelings into words. Don't think you know what they mean and feel ask them. Relationships can't heal if either party won't be open enough to say when their hurt.
> 
> If you're mom is really expressing feelings in indirect words she's at least giving some kind of indication as to how she feels. What kind of communication are you giving them? If you can't communicate you're hurt it means you aren't willing to forgive because you're not giving the other person aneeds opportunity to make things right.



I tried once, and it makes things worse. But I guess you're right. I dont give enough opportunity. Like.. I tried once, once. Even though it hurt me, I should have said to myself 'so what, you should try harder'. The thing is maybe I'm not ready to try again now. No, not now. But I'll try to talk to her. Maybe write to her, it way much easier. Thanks!


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## Kebachi (May 27, 2014)

historian said:


> That's a brilliant idea. The point is how to communicate without hurting each other, and since she doesn't realize anything about that, I must work it out. I believe I can do it, thanks.


No problem, I hope it works out between the two of you!


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