# 6/8 Debate



## ape (Aug 11, 2009)

I'm an 8 wing 7 and had a relationship with a 7 wing 8

Probably will be the love of my life

Very intense and powerful stuff

I think the 7 part was the problem......selfish and flighty me reckons


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## ape (Aug 11, 2009)

Grim said:


> 5 is a thinking style... the difference between the two wings is inductive vs deductive thinking. It's like two sides of the same coin. It must feel rather nice for both to see the same things differently. Like... everything takes on a new depth.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You sure seem clocked on this stuff

Do you have any suggestions as to what would be best to read on the Net for a person to understand the system?


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## 480 (Jan 22, 2009)

ape said:


> You sure seem clocked on this stuff
> 
> Do you have any suggestions as to what would be best to read on the Net for a person to understand the system?


Read the profiles... then start reading everything else. People's posts, etc. Learn to feel what the types are like by how they speak... and what they say. Then you can spot the flaws in the profile. Things that don't fit... or are untrue more often than they are true. You learn to spot things the profiles missed. Once you feel it and it takes shape in your understanding, the numbers just fall into place.

Why do you think you're an 8?


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## ape (Aug 11, 2009)

> =Grim;125957]Read the profiles... then start reading everything else. People's posts, etc. Learn to feel what the types are like by how they speak... and what they say. Then you can spot the flaws in the profile. Things that don't fit... or are untrue more often than they are true. You learn to spot things the profiles missed. Once you feel it and it takes shape in your understanding, the numbers just fall into place.
> 
> *Why do you think you're an 8?*


Sorry to interrupt your folks interesting conversation but....

The 8 profile fits to a tee. The sensitivity in childhood that acquired a hardened shell (I can remember battling my whole life with keeping a part of me warm and open as I lived through harsh times and situations, becoming the hardest in my environment)

There has always been a need to be the Alpha male in all situations so that I can control and dominate in a pre emptive strike fashion.

I have had at least 50 different jobs as I chafe under authority and I have been estranged from my family for over ten years, as they were not a source of strength, but instead viral weakness..

My unavoidable goal is to become a rock and and island unto myself.....but I have a powerful need for people.

I have somewhat reached that goal and currently live in a van in Whistler BC (where many others do as well). Although extroverted by nature, I have willed myself to become introverted so as to not need and be disappointed by others. 

I have been involved in combat sports and fanatical strength training my whole life. As well, I have worked in industries that demand the utmost physical strengths and stamina's. My only true passion and goal in life is to remain strong and virile in unnatural (civilization) circumstances.

Robert E. Howard's Conan of Cimmeria has been my role model since childhood

I exhibit and have experienced and maintained healthy Type 8 levels and I have experienced Type 8 unhealthy levels.

I truly understand Walter E. Kurtz

My behaviour in the ESTP Friendships thread is an example of why I reckon I am 8.


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## 480 (Jan 22, 2009)

ape said:


> There has always been a need to be the Alpha male in all situations so that I can control and dominate in a pre emptive strike fashion.


8s don't *need* to be the alpha male... they just are. It never occurs to them that it's any other way. They automatically control and dominate. Your tone in another post was "now, that I've found out I am an 8... I can really get my life going." Nothing should have changed for you. It's just a number. The profile and discovery of who you are should not have been empowering to you... an 8 *is* strength and power. It doesn't require outside validation. Nothing can award it to you. The 8 version of this would have been. "I am the alpha male." except an 8 doesn't even have to say it. Feeling a need to announce it would feel weak and self-indulgent. *Needing* to be something so you can dominate is weak.

Pre-emptive is the hyper-vigilance of the type 6. It is because deep down you're not confident in your ability to handle things that come your way.... so you're always scanning. And if you see a potential threat you hit it as quick as you can... because you're unsure if you can handle it so you feel the need get it before it can get you. The 8 version is "I see what this idiot is up to... let him come... he's stupid if he attacks me."



ape said:


> I have had at least 50 different jobs andI have been estranged from my family for over ten years as they were not a source of strength but instead viral weakness..


The strength of an 8 comes from within, and it is assumed. An 8 doesn't need external sources of strength. They don't need to be reminded they are strong.



ape said:


> My unavoidable goal is to become a rock and and island unto myself.....but I have a powerful need for people.


This is wrong. An 8 is already strong. A rock, an island unto themselves. It's not something they work toward. It's not a goal. It is the status quo. 8s would never say they *need* people. In fact an 8 is going to avoid saying they *need* anything. Feeling that they need something would make an 8 feel weak... and would avoid it. 8s want things. Wanting something leaves you in a position of power that needing things takes away from you. If you can't get something you want, it was just a want... no big deal. You can walk away from that. 



ape said:


> I have reached that goal and currently live in a van in Whistler BC (where many others do as well). Although extroverted by nature I have willed myself to become introverted so as to not need and be disappointed by others.


Congratulations on reaching your goal... here's a gold star for your calendar.



ape said:


> I have been involved in combat sports and fanatical strength training my whole life. As well I have worked in industries that demand the utmost physical strengths and stamina's, as my only true passion and goal in life is to remain strong and virile in unnatural (civilization) circumstances.


6s do this for the reasons you're listing in the post. If not they might not be strong to meet adversity. The muscles and the training gives you confidence. Helps you to be less anxious about all those uncertainties you have.



ape said:


> Robert E. Howard's Conan of Cimmeria has been my role model since childhood


8s tend to either not have role models at all, or cite themselves as their own role models. 6s look for people to pattern themselves after. 8s are themselves, and the person they respect the most. Anything else puts someone on a pedestal above you and would make an 8 feel weak... needy. 



ape said:


> I exhibit and have experienced and maintained healthy Type 8 levels and I have experienced Type 8 unhealthy levels.


8s are self validating... they don't need some list of health levels to confirm who they are.



ape said:


> My behaviour in the ESTP Friendships thread is an example of why I reckon I am 8.


I saw that... picking on an underage girl. Did it make you feel tough? I read that and it felt to me like you were throwing the kind of tantrum a petulant child might throw. I found nothing grand about your behavior in that thread. You were way too reactive to every little thing said to you. You let a child rattle you. It must have been dreadful for you. Were you terrified?

An 8 would be ashamed at such a display if they ever got involved in such a thing to begin with. I could not see even the most stressed out 8 doing what you did... and they'd want to forget it and put it behind them as quick as they could... you wear it like some sort of badge of honor... replete with a nice little "I win." victory post at the end. For an 8 victory is a foregone conclusion. It would be like celebrating getting up in the morning... yay you did it! Good for you...

You have a long way to go before you earn your type-8 merit badge. Perhaps in the future you conduct yourself with a bit more dignity.


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## ape (Aug 11, 2009)

> =Grim;126117]8s don't *need* to be the alpha male... they just are. It never occurs to them that it's any other way. They automatically control and dominate.


_Basic Desire: To protect themselves (to be in control of their own life_
_and destiny)_

When someone lives a pattern that is repeated on a consistent basis in social situations, I assumed they would be filling some need. From the outside looking in it would appear "they just are" but that is a simplistic assumption. There is always the why



> Your tone in another post was "now, that I've found out I am an 8... I can really get my life going." Nothing should have changed for you. It's just a number. The profile and discovery of who you are should not have been empowering to you... an 8 *is* strength and power.


You have almost a childlike view of 8s that makes your perception appear as what a child's perception of super heroes would be. Trust me....living the life of the 8 and understanding that the path is both rational and natural is a huge relief. Until you have experienced such, you will not understand



> It doesn't require outside validation. Nothing can award it to you. The 8 version of this would have been. "I am the alpha male." except an 8 doesn't even have to say it. Feeling a need to announce it would feel weak and self-indulgent. *Needing* to be something so you can dominate is weak.


Again with the child like perspective of a hero. The word need was poorly chosen, but I assumed when my place in group dynamics is repeated consistently there must be a need for such positioning

_Key Motivations: Want to be self-reliant, to prove their strength and resist weakness, to be important in their world, to dominate the environment, and to stay in control of their situation._ 

I probably should have used the word motivation rather than need

.


> Pre-emptive is the hyper-vigilance of the type 6. It is because deep down you're not confident in your ability to handle things that come your way.... so you're always scanning. And if you see a potential threat you hit it as quick as you can... because you're unsure if you can handle it so you feel the need get it before it can get you. The 8 version is "I see what this idiot is up to... let him come... he's stupid if he attacks me."


That is simply untrue. 8s feel a need to control their environments.....it is a key motivator. What you describe is a hero worshipper's perspective of what it must be like to be an 8 




> The strength of an 8 comes from within, and it is assumed. An 8 doesn't need external sources of strength. They don't need to be reminded they are strong.


They must constintly test themselves in order to confirm stregnth. It is a fundemental part of being 8




> ]This is wrong. An 8 is already strong. A rock, an island unto themselves. It's not something they work toward. It's not a goal. It is the status quo.


_*Level 4:* Self-sufficiency, financial independence, and having enough resources are important concerns: become enterprising, pragmatic, "rugged individualists," wheeler-dealers. Risk-taking, hardworking, denying own emotional needs._

We all are born with attachments, nobody is born a rock and an island unto themselves. It is a rational goal of 8s, given their motivations and fears





> 8s would never say they *need* people. In fact an 8 is going to avoid saying they *need* anything. Feeling that they need something would make an 8 feel weak... and would avoid it.


We are in an environment of learning and sharing on this site. I think it be very much appropriate to open up about myself so as to create growth and learning. To become stronger. Your perception of 8s is very childlike



> 8s want things. Wanting something leaves you in a position of power that needing things takes away from you. If you can't get something you want, it was just a want... no big deal. You can walk away from that.


The Buddhist call it Cravings



> Congratulations on reaching your goal... here's a gold star for your calendar


That time of the month?



> 6s do this for the reasons you're listing in the post. If not they might not be strong to meet adversity. The muscles and the training gives you confidence. Helps you to be less anxious about all those uncertainties you have.


No, I actually train purely for the sensation of strength.....I value it as a wealthy man values gold and a loving women values love. Strength is _everything_



> 8s tend to either not have role models at all, or cite themselves as their own role models.


That's just plain stupid. Role models are useful in the struggles of life. To site themselves as their own role model reeks of ego rum amok



> 6s look for people to pattern themselves after. 8s are themselves, and the person they respect the most. Anything else puts someone on a pedestal above you and would make an 8 feel weak... needy.


Have you ever trained in martial arts or any other combat sports i would assume......what you describe above of the 8 is ego and it would quickly be beaten out of him and he would quickly see the usefulness of respecting and learning from others.

Me thinks you have worshipped one too many 8 cartoon heroes in your youth




> 8s are self validating... they don't need some list of health levels to confirm who they are.


That is just silly. 8s are not super human. They will use what ever tool available to better themselves. Understanding levels of health can aid an 8 greatly in becoming better and stronger



> I saw that... picking on an underage girl. Did it make you feel tough? I read that and it felt to me like you were throwing the kind of tantrum a petulant child might throw. I found nothing grand about your behavior in that thread. You were way too reactive to every little thing said to you. You let a child rattle you. It must have been dreadful for you. Were you terrified?


I had no idea she was a child and I dealt with her in a firm but fair manner. I did not call her names and I instead pointed out the weakness of her post, as I would anyone any age who I feel are attacking me. 

Why the attitude? Seems rather odd....emotional....rather irrational



> An 8 would be ashamed at such a display if they ever got involved in such a thing to begin with. I could not see even the most stressed out 8 doing what you did... and they'd want to forget it and put it behind them as quick as they could... you wear it like some sort of badge of honor... replete with a nice little "I win." victory post at the end. For an 8 victory is a foregone conclusion. It would be like celebrating getting up in the morning... yay you did it! Good for you...


By this point it is quite obvious you have a childlike hero worship perception of 8s. I used the thread as reference. Apparently my behaviour on the thread was "Average"....

_*Level 6:* Become highly combative and intimidating to get their way: confrontational, belligerent, creating adversarial relationships. Everything a test of wills, and they will not back down. Use threats and reprisals to get obedience from others, to keep others off balance and insecure. However, unjust treatment makes others fear and resent them, possibly also band together against them._ 



> You have a long way to go before you earn your type-8 merit badge. Perhaps in the future you conduct yourself with a bit more dignity.


I don't wanna earn I just wanna learn

Such a childlike reaction on your part

Was your father who abandoned you an 8?

Maybe you didn't have a lot of friends growing up and only had 8 comic book characters to keep you company?


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## 480 (Jan 22, 2009)

The more you argue against it, the more obvious it is that you're not an 8. There is not a single shred of 8 mentality in any of your posts.


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## ape (Aug 11, 2009)

Grim said:


> The more you argue against it, the more obvious it is that you're not an 8. There is not a single shred of 8 mentality in any of your posts.


You're a clown

Why don't you address your childlike perceptions of Types and my other points in response to your insultive and childish post?

You tell me I'm not an 8, in a very aggressive and insulting post.....I rebut your points.....you respond with flawed circular logic, avoiding specifics that you created ....then stick out your tongue and run away.

It's actually quite laughable


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## ape (Aug 11, 2009)

> Grim 8s are the biggest thing around. It's the natural order of things to want to be just like the biggest thing around.


Do you reckon your childlike worship of 8s effects your perception and judgement of the topic

Are you Chester and Spike the 8?


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## 480 (Jan 22, 2009)

ape said:


> Your a clown
> 
> Why don't you address your childlike perceptions of Types and my other points in responce to your insultive and childish post?
> 
> ...



8s are strength personified.

http://personalitycafe.com/enneagra...neagram-compatibility-chart-6.html#post126273

This is not how strength argues. This is how someone seeking a stamp of approval tries to prove to me how 8 they are. 

It's like you expect me to say; "Well done... you seem to have ticked off all the proper boxes. Welcome to the club."
An 8 would not sit there and list off all the reasons, or argue with me just because I challenged his type. I'm telling you who you are, and are not, and you're dignifying it with an argument... like you're afraid I'm right, or like you need my acknowledgment. You're putting me in a position of power over you by even making it important to change my mind. Every post you make makes you look weaker and weaker.

I'm not going to bless you and grant you 8-ness. You are not an 8.


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## 480 (Jan 22, 2009)

ape said:


> Do you reckon your childlike worship of 8s effects your perception and judgement of the topic
> 
> Are you Chester and Spike the 8?
> 
> YouTube - Sylvester, Chester, and Spike - Sylvester says WTF


You can attack my perception of 8s all you wish. My view on what 8 is is accurate. You don't measure up.


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## ape (Aug 11, 2009)

=


> Grim;126326]8s are strength personified.


You're hilarious

http://personalitycafe.com/enneagra...neagram-compatibility-chart-6.html#post126273



> This is not how strength argues. This is how someone seeking a stamp of approval tries to prove to me how 8 they are.


I'm brand new to this shit bub. I have tested 8 several times and it fits what I know of myself and behaviours I have exhibited. I haven't even read all the other Types yet so could not really give a shit what Type I am. I am here to learn and find further clarity



> It's like you expect me to say; "Well done... you seem to have ticked off all the proper boxes. Welcome to the club."


I did initially have respect for what I falsely assumed was great understanding of the topic on your part. That has changed. 



> An 8 would not sit there and list off all the reasons, or argue with me just because I challenged his type. I'm telling you who you are, and are not, and you're dignifying it with an argument... like you're afraid I'm right, or like you need my acknowledgment. You're putting me in a position of power over you by even making it important to change my mind. Every post you make makes you look weaker and weaker.


It's called sparring bub. I see you as someone of greater skill and knowledge than me on the topic so I will continue to engage you until such time as I am beyond your abilities. 



> I'm not going to bless you and grant you 8-ness. You are not an 8.


And you are hilarious

Why don't you share your Type with us or do you prefer the aggressor role with no chance of feeling retribution? The bully who hides behind the teachers skirt


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## 480 (Jan 22, 2009)

ape said:


> Why don't you share your Type with us or do you prefer the aggressor role with no chance of feeling retribution? The bully who hides behind the teachers skirt


I'm an ENTJ 8w9.


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## ape (Aug 11, 2009)

Grim said:


> I'm an ENTJ 8w9.


Ah yes

The Thinking Judger trapped in flawed conclusion

And now I see where the hero worship of 8s originates

Ego

Tell us a little of your 8 led life

What do you do, what have you done and where have you been?

I predict a frustrated white coll-er pencil neck bullying in white collar world

With much pridefull ego attached to his unexpressed Type


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## 480 (Jan 22, 2009)

ape said:


> Ah yes
> 
> The Thinking Judger trapped in flawed conclusion
> 
> ...


I like your bully analogy. It recognizes the fact that I'm bigger than you. You're catching on.

You've also degenerated into bitterness. I'm sorry you were not born what you wished to be. 

8s are not whiny. 8s have the biggest egos around. My ego wouldn't mean a thing to you. When two 8s talk there is a fortifying of boundaries as two massive personalities bump up against each other. Me not explaining myself to you, or giving any ground... you should be doing the same. But instead you justified yourself to me. Demanded my approval and when you didn't get it the whining comes out... with more demands that I justify myself to you. Good luck with that.

For what it is worth you're a very assertive person. 6s can be very assertive, and aggressive. Chuck Norris is a 6w5.


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## ape (Aug 11, 2009)

Grim said:


> I like your bully analogy. It recognizes the fact that I'm bigger than you. You're catching on.
> 
> You've also degenerated into bitterness. I'm sorry you were not born what you wished to be.
> 
> ...


You are hilarious.....you are like a child talking about Ninjas

Seriously dude, it is like you are playing a role

You are like one of these sloped chin and big nose Kung Fu kids telling a judo competitor or boxer what it is to be a warrior.

You may be an 8 but your bizarre attachment to it and your attempts at excluding others really sounds like how you would describe a 6s behaviour

Have you ever heard of the physiological term "mirroring"

It is like you are using me as a mirror to communicate with yourself that which you do not want to know

Fascinating stuff


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## mcgooglian (Nov 12, 2008)

This is getting old Ape, give it a rest.


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## 480 (Jan 22, 2009)

ape said:


> You are hilarious.....you are like a child talking about Ninjas
> 
> Seriously dude, it is like you are playing a role
> 
> ...


Heed what I said to you in the PM. Behave yourself on the forum.


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## ape (Aug 11, 2009)

mcgooglian said:


> This is getting old Ape, give it a rest.


I should give it a rest?

Do you reckon he should as well?

Did you notice the insultive nature and attacks in his first post?

Am I the only on e resposible for this exchange?

Or could it be you do not like to see Grim exposed for what he is as he attempted with me?

What exactly are you saying?


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## slowriot (Nov 11, 2008)

ape said:


> You are hilarious.....you are like a child talking about Ninjas
> 
> Seriously dude, it is like you are playing a role
> 
> ...


hahahaha come on guys take it up a level, the public demands better entertainment


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## ape (Aug 11, 2009)

snail said:


> This fight again? Is it possible for two rational, mature individuals to agree to disagree? Neither of you seems likely to give up, because of determination, pride, competitiveness, a love of truth, or whatever it is that motivates you. I didn't get a chance to adequately address something you said last night, Ape. You mentioned that you mirror the tactics of your opponent, respecting a respectful opponent and becoming hostile when you detect hostility. There is a flaw in this method. It can easily turn any argument into a conflict if there is an error of judgment when determining the opponent's intentions. Unless you are a mind reader, it is possible to misread and provoke the opponent, causing your belief about his intentions to self-fulfill. For instance, many people here believe you are being intentionally hostile without provocation because they don't see that your methods are an attempt to create a sense of balance or justice that just happened to go terribly wrong by creating an escalating cycle of mutual defensiveness. I believe it is possible to resolve all of this by choosing to intentionally give your opponent the benefit of the doubt. If he is being hostile while you retain your composure and unshakeable strength, he will make himself look like an ass, and you will gain more support for your cause. If he is not being intentionally hostile, that is likely to be revealed as well. What do you think? Are you willing to experiment with this approach?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 
My primary function is Ne by a nose over Se.....Ti is close behind

I am very good at deserning hostility

As for your advice to turn the other cheek ......tried it once when I was a kid and it ate me up like a cancer afterwards......my Type dictates a non Christian type code of conduct. 

And as for my dealings with Grim......I see them as compassionate in nature....removing dust from his eyes.


_Absolute Compassion versus Idiot Compassion _

_"Absolute compassion is seeing the situation as it is, directly and thoroughly. If you have to be tough,you just do it. Idiot compassion contains a sort of opium - constantly trying to be good and kind. Absolute compassion is more literal, more discriminating and more definitive. You are willing to hurt somebody, even though you don't want to hurt that person, but in order wake that person up, you might have to hurt him or her,you might have to inflict pain."_

_Chogyum Trungpa Rinpoche_


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## snail (Oct 13, 2008)

I just thought of a question for you, Ape, to go with my previous concerns about your "reflective tactics." Do you think bullying bullies is the most effective way to make them stop bullying? If so, why/how do you believe this works? If not, what is your actual goal? Something constructive in a practical way, or merely expressive on a personal level? Resolution or vengeance? I'm trying to understand where both of you are coming from, and I have more experience observing Grim than I have with you. You don't have to answer anything you don't want to, in this thread or any other, but I think it would help me empathize more effectively if I knew your basic framework. I would like to be as impartial as possible.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kokos (Dec 28, 2008)

You are so wrong snail ...


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## ape (Aug 11, 2009)

> I would still like a chance to find a resolution, create peace, and end all hostility on both sides of this unnecessary conflict in a way that benefits everyone involved.


The above just trips me out

God bless you and shine on

When a man is in the jungle doing battle on a daily basis.......to have a base camp where walls and arms can be dropped nurtures a man's soul.

Your Type is the reason I have not fully given up on humanity

The Israelis and Arab world have a conflict that could be resolved easily. Drop the gloves and give ethnic cleansing a chance. After that peace. But civilization will not allow such absolute compassion.

Kurtz called it timid morality


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## ape (Aug 11, 2009)

A very perceptive chick I went to the movie "The Departed" with said I was a replica of the Matt Damon character. A skipper from my dive boat reckoned I was the Matt Damon character from "Good Will Hunting" replica style

I truly do not give a fuck

I yearn for more power when I am emotionally damaged.

When people are cool I am cool

Wanna boogie?

I loves to boogie


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## snail (Oct 13, 2008)

I think it is normal to try to reestablish a feeling of empowerment when damaged, since painful experiences usually cause us to feel powerless or out of control. I was just thinking about this topic earlier today in another thread about a dysfunctional romantic relationship. The girl was so afraid of being abandoned that she was pushing her boyfriend away with her aggressively controlling tactics. This instinctive response to perceived helplessness can often be counterproductive when applied to interpersonal situations, but is also difficult to avoid when one has been damaged to the point where it seems like the only solution left. I know I respond the same way, and wonder if anyone is exempt.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## babblingbrook (Aug 10, 2009)

snail, just want to say I'm a fan of your wise, healing and insightful posts in this thread. roud:
understanding = peace


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## snail (Oct 13, 2008)

Thank you, but I'm so used to fighting everyone and everything that I'm not even sure what peace is anymore.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## reluctant6 (Sep 13, 2009)

Ape, I think it would be worth it to consider Grimm's perspective before settling on your final conclusion. Hear me out because I am only saying this because truly thinking and reflecting on your type will help you to see beyond your perception of how the world works to remove that handicap. If I were to think I was an 8, I would be aware of and attempt to limit the behaviors I need to develop more to dig myself out of the 6 "mentality." 

I cannot tell you one way or the other what type you are because this is an online forum and I don't have any sense of your tone of voice or intension behind your words.

There are a lot of ways to describe your examples from the perspective of many other types. What's to stop you from considering the fact that you are a counterphobic 6 with a self-preservation subtype? I think you should always consider the possibility that you may be confusing some of the outer expressions of someone who trusts their instincts with a person acts the same way, perhaps, because they don't trust their instincts or their instincts of other people. 

All of use can find ways to make multiple profiles fit (or not fit) our childhood and all of us exhbit behaviors of all the subtypes at one time or another, so it would be a good idea to consider all the options before owning and defending one.

The actions are not what matters. The reason those actions occured in the first place is what you have to be on the watch for. For an extremely dumbed down example, think about buying a BMW. Are you buying it because you know that is the best option? Perhaps you're getting it because you know your girlfriend will be psyched. What about those who get it because, in their social circles, it is the car to get? Some might get it because they have always wanted one and all the people they have ever looked up to have owned one. Others might simply like the tinted windows. I would get it because i knew it was the absolute safest, most reliable, and best option given consumer reports, several mechanics' recommendations, and validation from my friends. Others could choose it because they've never had one before and it looks like fun. My boyfriend would get iit because it is the top of the line, the most comfortable, the best quality, the best features. My mom would choose it because it is the only one not excluded from her list.


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## ape (Aug 11, 2009)

reluctant6 said:


> Ape, I think it would be worth it to consider Grimm's perspective before settling on your final conclusion. Hear me out because I am only saying this because truly thinking and reflecting on your type will help you to see beyond your perception of how the world works to remove that handicap. If I were to think I was an 8, I would be aware of and attempt to limit the behaviors I need to develop more to dig myself out of the 6 "mentality."
> 
> I cannot tell you one way or the other what type you are because this is an online forum and I don't have any sense of your tone of voice or intension behind your words.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the efforts in the post.....but I think you addressed it to the wrong fella

It's all cool

I am very thankful that I stumbled on this thread

More dust removed from the eyes


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## reluctant6 (Sep 13, 2009)

Sorry, I am new to the site (and to posting on threads in general). I think I may have replied before I had realized there were so many pages to the conversation. I'm glad you liked the thread and hope that, if it didn't really apply, you were able to divine something helpful.


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## reluctant6 (Sep 13, 2009)

Although, it is ironic that a 6 posts a comment on the 8th page of the 6/8 debate:wink:


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## TreeBob (Oct 11, 2008)

This was a split from another topic and someone renamed it to 6/8.


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## Vanguard (Dec 22, 2009)

Well that was a hilarious debate. Grim slapped that little monkey around good.


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## TurranMC (Sep 15, 2009)

A lot of arguments in this thread are illogical. It seems to be argued that Eights are walking gods. They never have to seek strength, they are strength personified. Eights never need to physically train themselves, they always win by default! But there is just so much wrong with that that its annoying to even have to argue against it. I mean hell, what happens when two eights get into a conflict? Whichever is more arrogant wins? Sorry but I don't think arrogance wins many fights. Obviously whichever is more trained in whatever arena they are competing in will win.

Eights fear being controlled and thus fear being weak (since the strong dominate the weak). Their dominance is a reaction to their fear, they must be constantly strong and show no weakness because it invites others to take advantage. But this fear like all type fear is irrational. As eights get healthier they allow this wall to drop. They do not need to be aggressive. They are willing to back down. They can acknowledge their fears and doubt. If an eight chooses not to mention they have fears and doubt because they are still wrapped up in their own fear thats cool, but suggesting that because someone is willing to admit to others their weaknesses means they are not an eight is ridiculous.


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## Vanguard (Dec 22, 2009)

You're right Turran, ofcourse 8s have things they obsess about and fear e.g. fear being weak, obsess about control and power. They aren't walking gods, nor are they strength personified. They like to SEE themselves that way, but that's not going to stop them from training and trying to better themselves. 

An 8s arrogance and aggressivness is more about ego, believing you can take anyone on (keep in mind that most 8s don't see themselves as aggressive, its more about being tough and strong and not being vulnerable). 8s also love a fight and see a fair fight as a win/win situation, if they win, they assert control over the situation, if they lose, they have tested the contender and found him worthy of respect. The way Grim described 8s seems like he exagerated certain points, but from the way I see it was just to prove the other guy wasn't an 8 (polarising the situation into black/white is an 8 argument tactic, basically Grim stated 8s are like this, you (ape) aren't, so therefore you aren't an 8 - this is a bait tactic, to test the response. Ape fell for it, and lost. Ape might be an 8, but he sure wasn't behaving like one).


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## Pablonuts25 (Aug 19, 2009)

ape said:


> I'm an 8 wing 7 and had a relationship with a 7 wing 8
> 
> Probably will be the love of my life
> 
> ...


 
Dude..you are not an 8. You are a counterphobic 6.

I have a friend who is a 6...counterphobic too, he made the test and...the result was "8" lol...he is not an 8, he is clearly a 6.

Maybe 8 wanna be?


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## windex (Dec 24, 2009)

reluctant6 said:


> Although, it is ironic that a 6 posts a comment on the 8th page of the 6/8 debate:wink:


I find it great that you notice this type of thing.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

I've talked to ape quite a few times in a chat room from another board, and hes a 7.


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## roxtehproxy (Sep 9, 2009)

Promethea said:


> I've talked to ape quite a few times in a chat room from another board, and hes a 7.


He's seven? He's 'a' seven? Don't you mean, his enneagram type is type 7?

I'm positive he used to be a type 8, although not exactly the strongest of his kind around.


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