# An explanation of Fi vs Fe



## Satan Claus (Aug 6, 2013)

Introverted feeling vs Extroverted feeling. I thought I'd make a post about it, even thought there are already several, just to make sure my understanding is correct. So please feel free to correct me if you see anything that's not right.
To clarify it's differences, we have to understand what the feeling function itself is. Feeling over thinking is where a user weighs, evaluates and analyzes their decisions with an emotional drive. They'll ask questions like "Will I be hurting anyone?" and they're more likely not to engage in conflict since they see it as something that damages harmony and they want themselves and everyone to be happy. But guess what? We're all thinkers and feelers. We all use the eight functions but just have a preference. Fe and Fi are just as emotional as each other and "feely" but have different approaches and values.

So now that we've defined what "feeling" is we need to define what Fi and Fe are. 
*
Extroverted feeling is when you seek social connections and create appropriate and considerate actions to create harmonious interactions with others.

Introverted feeling is when you evaluate things based on your own preferences and values. It sees things in terms of like vs dislike or good vs bad. It has an us vs them mentality. 

*So now that we know what they are we can look at their differences! Whether you have Fi or Fe does not depend on whether you're an extrovert or an introvert. INFJ's, introverts, have Fe. ESTJ's, extroverts, have Fi.

Fe is more outwardly emotional then Fi. If you're at a funeral and don't know the person who died and you start crying because everyone else is, you're most likely an Fe user. Fe users take on the emotions of others and will feel more empathy then sympathy. Fi users can do empathy too but usually if it's through a shared experience only. 

Fi users are also more attached to the things they like. I find the fandom things that go on among young adults to be very Fi. When they watch the show and someone dies, they cry because they seemed to be attached to that character. Insult the character? They get offended or will start getting upset with you. If you criticize something an Fi user likes, whether you intend to or not, they will take it personally! For example, I was watching a TV show with someone and there was a little preview he wanted to watch. I asked if lots of other people watched it too because it's Canadian and I know that not many people are aware of Canadian channels. I didn't state why I asked that question but he got offended and thought I was making fun of him and his interests. 

Fi also knows itself and what it wants more than an Fe user will. Fe users will also sacrifice their own values or needs for the sake of the group. 

Fi users also put their emotions on to things. Me and my friend were talking about the dentist and she said "Dentists make me feel so uncomfortable and sad. The things they use scare me." While this can be looked at as Fe because they just stated their feelings (Fi users keep feelings to themselves) she applied her own feelings to something. Her mood changed when we went to the dentist because she doesn't like that environment.


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## Octavian (Nov 24, 2013)

My thing is this. You can have a feeling function high in the stack and not be overemotonal in the way that the MBTI paints the F-types as being. That's shown by the plethora of famous Feeler intellectuals and academics. The only surely recurring theme is that of Fe forming judgments based upon collective values or a desire to impact the collective in some way, and Fi making judgments based upon their own personal values while resisting Fe values. 

When you assign specific behaviors to the functions, that moves outside the realm of cognition. And that's where a lot of the confusion begins.


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## The_Wanderer (Jun 13, 2013)

It's never clear cut enough to say "this function does this" in the way you are here. Especially without considering the effect that the preference and strength of a function will have, and also how it is effected by the persons other valued functions.



Satan Claus said:


> Fi users are also more attached to the things they like. I find the fandom things that go on among young adults to be very Fi. When they watch the show and someone dies, they cry because they seemed to be attached to that character. Insult the character? They get offended or will start getting upset with you. If you criticize something an Fi user likes, whether you intend to or not, they will take it personally!


A lot of what you mentioned here is showing how unhealthy and weaker Fi will show in types that have it in tertiary or inferior positions.



Satan Claus said:


> Fi also knows itself and what it wants more than an Fe user will. Fe users will also sacrifice their own values or needs for the sake of the group.


It also depends. What's not mentioned enough is how the _position_ of the function in your preferences will effect how it plays out. More likely than not Fe dominants will not need to "sacrifice" their own values or needs simply because _they're the ones steering the emotional flow of people around them_. Fi types can sacrifice things for the sake of others too, especially for somebody close to them whom they value. This is because strong Fi values personal and intimate emotional connections to people they consider close to them.



Satan Claus said:


> Fi users also put their emotions on to things. Me and my friend were talking about the dentist and she said "Dentists make me feel so uncomfortable and sad. The things they use scare me." While this can be looked at as Fe because they just stated their feelings (Fi users keep feelings to themselves) she applied her own feelings to something. Her mood changed when we went to the dentist because she doesn't like that environment.


The easiest and most simplistic way to explain it would be to say that Fi is mostly subjective, a.k.a "The things they use scare me". Compare to Fe's more objective "The things they use are scary". Of course this simple example excludes the effect the thinking functions will have on the person.



Satan Claus said:


> Fe is more outwardly emotional then Fi. If you're at a funeral and don't know the person who died and you start crying because everyone else is, you're most likely an Fe user. Fe users take on the emotions of others and will feel more empathy then sympathy. Fi users can do empathy too but usually if it's through a shared experience only.


This also depends. The Fi displayed by ESFPs and ENFPs is more apparent than that of ISFPs and INFPs because of their dominant extraversion (which is also why they can be more openly emotional than introverted Fe types). Sympathy and Empathy aren't specific to a cognitive function, for example; Fe types can be sympathetic because of their attention to both the expressed and unexpressed needs of people around them. If the Fe type thinks the other person needs sympathy, then they will give it. At the same time, an Ne user could show empathy because Ne is predisposed to considering possibilities and to noticing the traits and habits of others.


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## MuChApArAdOx (Jan 24, 2011)

@Satan Claus, nice write up. I agree with most of what you said, these lines I don't. _ Fe users take on the emotions of others and will feel more empathy then sympathy. _....Fe shows and feels sympathy for others rather than empathy. In my experience Fe pities people, sometimes to the point of making them feel like victims. They feel sorry for people ( sympathy ) and because they don't want to upset people, they sometimes tell people what they want to hear rather than what is best for them ( sugar coat )...which leads to treating people like victims. Fi uses empathy, we relate to the experience , try and guide people by sharing our own personal experiences ( relating to some aspect of their emotions from a personal past , or current experience ).....agreed with what you said about shared experiences.

@The_Wanderer....although I would agree with some of what you said, I disagree with these lines : _The Fi displayed by ESFPs and ENFPs is more apparent than that of ISFPs and INFPs because of their dominant extraversion (which is also why they can be more openly emotional than introverted Fe types)._....Fi is more obvious with an INFP than ENFP. Because INFP are introverted, it doesn't change the dom of the function ( Fi ) INFP lead with Fi, and in my experience they don't have a lot of strenght with Te, they basically go from Fi to Ne. They make very quick decisions with Fi before they give their Ne a chance to sort out the possibilities. I've observed for some INFP they don't trust their intuition and often will have to contradict themselves once their Ne catches up with them. If you put an INFP/ENFP in the same room you couldn't tell us apart. ENFP are quite Introverted, and when in company of other introverts, we settle with ease into introverted mode.. You will notice the difference once we communicate, ENFP will use more Ne-Te than INFP who will always lead with their Fi.......Also Introverted Fe types, lets say INFJ for example are extremely emotional ( to the point I feel like I'm walking on eggshells ) :frustrating: Try not to confuse the type overall with the function Fe, Introverts don't express any less than extroverts, If they use an extroverted function it will be obvious when they speak. I think we could agree that we do use our Dom function the most overall. I know plenty of INFJ's, men and women, they are in my humble the most emotional type of all, needy and emotionally expressive.


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## The_Wanderer (Jun 13, 2013)

MuChApArAdOx said:


> ...although I would agree with some of what you said, I disagree with these lines :


Oops, that was a mistype, I mean't the _emotions_, not thе Fi, my bad. As to ENFPs. We don't have _strong_ Te at all; the major Te difference with INFPs is that they don't emphasize it like ENFPs do. ENFP Te is typically pretty one-dimensional, actually.


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## MuChApArAdOx (Jan 24, 2011)

The_Wanderer said:


> Oops, that was a mistype, I mean't the _emotions_, not thе Fi, my bad. As to ENFPs. We don't have _strong_ Te at all; the major Te difference with INFPs is that they don't emphasize it like ENFPs do.


Speak for yourself, I have plenty of Te and not afraid to use it :tongue: Brush up on your thinking skills:laughing: boy :shocked:


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## The_Wanderer (Jun 13, 2013)

MuChApArAdOx said:


> Speak for yourself, I have plenty of Te and not afraid to use it :tongue: Brush up on your thinking skills:laughing: boy :shocked:


Oh you like to _think_​ so.  :laughing:


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

It seems to me that Fi is internally referenced evaluation via the feelings, and Fe is externally referenced evaluation via the feelings. 

Fi: How do I feel about this? 

Fe: How does everyone else feel about this?


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## Satan Claus (Aug 6, 2013)

The_Wanderer said:


> It's never clear cut enough to say "this function does this" in the way you are here. Especially without considering the effect that the preference and strength of a function will have, and also how it is effected by the persons other valued functions.


That's true. Fi acts different in an INFP then in an ESTJ. But I was referring to Fi doms. All the examples I've used are from confirmed ISFP's and ENFP's so that I would know it's accurate. The one I used about the TV show was from someone who I think is an INFP. 

Fi in the tertiary or the inferior position will be a lot different because the information the user takes in will have to go through other functions before Fi is even activated. Same thing with people who have weaker Fe.


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## yentipeee (Jun 19, 2013)

I have Fe, if somebody cries, I cry, like chick flicks make me cry. If somebody pukes I barf. But my friend who is a nurse is not affected if you puke, so she's a Fi? :tongue:


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## The_Wanderer (Jun 13, 2013)

Satan Claus said:


> Fi in the tertiary or the inferior position will be a lot different because the information the user takes in will have to go through other functions before Fi is even activated. Same thing with people who have weaker Fe.


Not _exactly_. The position of the function not only effects _preference_ but also _how it is used_. I'll give some examples a bit later. In a hurry right now (a.k.a I need to get off PerC).


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## ebullientcorner (Oct 5, 2012)

The_Wanderer said:


> Oops, that was a mistype, I mean't the _emotions_, not thе Fi, my bad. As to ENFPs. We don't have _strong_ Te at all; the major Te difference with INFPs is that they don't emphasize it like ENFPs do. ENFP Te is typically pretty one-dimensional, actually.


I agree with this. ENFP Te is quite one-dimensional in that it only comes out at night  But really, I have a peace loving INFP friend who I have seen in Te mode all but once. Something no one wants to see, I assure you, and it felt even more base than my own Te mode -- which was startling...like gimmie in The United States of Tara. "No. We will not go there." The end. 

As to @Satan Claus: OP (what a delicious name btw), I enjoyed your post particularly for the insight it gave me into Fe. Fe continues to elude me on the whole -- particularly when coupled with S. Though I have come to appreciate and relax around it's sweet net like blanket of free love. Calling things for what they are. Especially in my INFJ friend and his ENFJ partner. They are the dynamic duo of loving my grumpy ass self for exactly what I am. It is ridiculously refreshing. (And slightly uncomfortable at times)

I have strong suspicions that the Fe is strong with my young daughter too, and I enjoy her penchant for calling things for exactly what they are. 

Beyond that, I tend to feel that low order any function tends to be a bitch. For instance, my INTP husband's low order Fe annoys the snot out of me, but can be well meaning I suppose. (Though I doubt my Si makes him too happy ha!) But mostly he is dominated by his super hot Ti.

I tend to feel that Fi's in the more dominant regions are more er... pensive about moral problems. Pensive may not be the right word, but it was explained by my husband @_arkigos_ to me like this at a gathering and I have always liked it:

He held up a cup of mountain dew and asked us to define the cup. The group was an interesting one in that it actually just comprised a close knit group of N's that we had brought together. The couple I mentioned above the ENFJ and INFJ, and the INFP and his ENFJ wife, my husband, INTP and I, ENFP. 

The NJ's really looked at the cup, considering it thoughtfully as the INFP and I squirmed a bit. _What was he getting at_ FInally my lovely, thoughtful INFJ friend said "Well, it's..." I wish I could duplicate it, my forum friends, but it is impossible. The cup of Mountain Dew was expounded upon. All of its elements, carbonation, straw, ice, and beyond that to its greater meaning. The INFP friend and I looked at each other dumbfounded. My husband turned to us. So, what is it?
"A G** D*** cup of Mountain dew." "Yup." And we all laughed.
Then my husband said, "now here's something else funny about the difference. Say," and he turned to INFP. "INFP said something obviously mysoginistic to ENFJ wife here." All NFJs instantly cringed. "Or for purposes to let INFP answer say we saw something like that happen. How would you all react?"
The INFJ, "Obviously that person is an asshole." The other NFJs agreed. Stop on my an INFP and we both go, "Well....." All NFJs are floored. "There are a lot of ideas you have to factor in before making any conclusive judgments..."

And it was a great lesson in the difference between the N Fe and the N Fi. 

I will never look at a cup of mountain dew the same way again.


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## Psychopomp (Oct 3, 2012)

ebullientcorner said:


> I agree with this. ENFP Te is quite one-dimensional in that it only comes out at night  But really, I have a peace loving INFP friend who I have seen in Te mode all but once. Something no one wants to see, I assure you, and it felt even more base than my own Te mode -- which was startling...like gimmie in The United States of Tara. "No. We will not go there." The end.
> 
> As to @_Satan Claus_: OP (what a delicious name btw), I enjoyed your post particularly for the insight it gave me into Fe. Fe continues to elude me on the whole -- particularly when coupled with S. Though I have come to appreciate and relax around it's sweet net like blanket of free love. Calling things for what they are. Especially in my INFJ friend and his ENFJ partner. They are the dynamic duo of loving my grumpy ass self for exactly what I am. It is ridiculously refreshing. (And slightly uncomfortable at times)
> 
> ...


Right, when asked to explain in technical terms a cup of Mountain Dew, the Fe/Ti and Ti/Fe folks broke it apart and 'over answered' the question. The Te/Fi Fi/Te types called it what it was in the most objective of terms. Flip the question over to one of value, in this case a hypothetical situation in which a husband says something misogynistic to his wife, and the Fe types jump on it and are willing to make a strong objective judgment. The Fi types, however, actively yearn for nuance and hesitate to extravert judgment, even in a clear cut situation. 

That scenario worked well because each side were very clear examples of their respective types and functions... though I suspect that one of those ENFJs was actually a liberally-minded ESFJ.


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## ferroequinologist (Jul 27, 2012)

tanstaafl28 said:


> It seems to me that Fi is internally referenced evaluation via the feelings, and Fe is externally referenced evaluation via the feelings.
> 
> Fi: How do I feel about this?
> 
> Fe: How does everyone else feel about this?


This is very true, and it shows in social interactions, such as small talk, or introducing oneself. I, for instance, feel very uncomfortable being asked questions about myself, and feel even worse asking others what to me would be intrusive questions. Instead, I would rather go about it more indirectly. I would say something about myself--reveal a little about myself, expecting the other person to respond in kind--sort of like tossing a ball. I say something about myself, toss the ball, and expect them to say something as well. What happens, however, is that often with Fe types, rather than offering up something, they ask a further question about me. I may answer it--a bit cagily, but then offer something else, expecting (again) for them to offer something up, but what ends up happening is that I end up doing all the revealing and they do all the asking. When all is said and done, I find them rude for not opening up--and feel very exposed, and that feels dangerous--like they know things they could now use against me, and they, I presume, think I'm self-centered because I didn't play the game their way (which I find to be invasive and not polite).

So, if you want Fe vs Fi in a nutshell, there you have it.


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## Recede (Nov 23, 2011)

ebullientcorner said:


> Then my husband said, "now here's something else funny about the difference. Say," and he turned to INFP. "INFP said something obviously mysoginistic to ENFJ wife here." All NFJs instantly cringed. "Or for purposes to let INFP answer say we saw something like that happen. How would you all react?"
> The INFJ, "Obviously that person is an asshole." The other NFJs agreed. Stop on my an INFP and we both go, "Well....." All NFJs are floored. "There are a lot of ideas you have to factor in before making any conclusive judgments..."


Heh. I actually don't under any circumstances judge people because I never really feel strongly about things and it's all subjective anyways. It doesn't make sense to me to say that someone is an asshole as if it were some objective fact.

The closest I will come to judging is to acknowledge that I seem to dislike someone (which rarely happens and even when it does, I don't feel very strongly about it), or noticing that someone appears to be (insert trait here) at the current moment, but I make no value judgment and it's of course subject to change as I see more. 

Though it may be slightly ambiguous as to whether this is Fi or a lack of Fi, hmm. o.o


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## Wolls (Oct 9, 2012)

Satan Claus said:


> That's true. Fi acts different in an INFP then in an ESTJ. But I was referring to Fi doms. All the examples I've used are from confirmed ISFP's and ENFP's so that I would know it's accurate. The one I used about the TV show was from someone who I think is an INFP.
> 
> Fi in the tertiary or the inferior position will be a lot different because the information the user takes in will have to go through other functions before Fi is even activated. Same thing with people who have weaker Fe.


As if a dom function were somehow disconnected from the other 7 functions in your stack?? If your dom then your funtions stacks against it, so why wouldn't the 8th place function be the more honest and accurate expression? Do you honestly believe that a dom function is somehow less affected? It is under the most scrutiny. When you look at something.. your alter it, isnt there some scientific value espressed as such? I'm not saying that I don't get why Doms are defined, or the functions are defined that way. More that as a matter of determining accuracy, it makes no sense.

Fi in the tertiary, Si Te Fi Ne Se Ti Fe Ni
Fi in the tertiary, Ni Te Fi Se Ne Ti Fe Si

You would not say oh that FI in the tertiary.. you may say oh the TE-FI loops.. those guys.. your may even say oh that Si v Ni.. but what are we evaluating? A part or the whole? We are placing import on a part of the whole. Because if we aren't evaluating the whole it makes no damned sense.. its called subjective BS. So a TeFI loop is part of the stack.. it seeks to answer not for existence but for how it exits within. It translates. 

Like gravity as expressed on Earth is not what gravity is, its an expression.. it is just as true on Earth, the moon or any planet. There is no such thing as more accurate gravity. Are you telling me that gravity as a function was and is more accurate here on Earth than the Moon? Just because the Earth is more gravity dom?


EDIT: As an example yes, look at doms. As the be all end all? No. It exists as a whole, and if you can't answer for that whole it won't mean anything. How does it answer for itself as a whole? As a part of everything else? Thats what it means. Its not say Fe or FE as a Fe dom., or evenFE as used suchly.. its FE answering how it is used in all of us in all situations. In all cases. Thats how it needs to answer.


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## ferroequinologist (Jul 27, 2012)

Wolls said:


> EDIT: As an example yes, look at doms. As the be all end all? No. It exists as a whole, and if you can't answer for that whole it won't mean anything. How does it answer for itself as a whole? As a part of everything else? Thats what it means. Its not say Fe or FE as a Fe dom., or evenFE as used suchly.. its FE answering how it is used in all of us in all situations. In all cases. Thats how it needs to answer.


I suppose you write? Try writing with your off hand. Do you write as well? Probably not. How about throwing a ball? Do you throw as well with your off hand as with your dominant one? While the physical act of writing or throwing a ball doesn't change regardless of which hand you use, your skill in writing or throwing _does_ change, and frankly, you won't get the physics right without lots and lots of practice, and unless you give up entirely using your dominant hand, you will never do as well with your off hand as with your dominant. 

So yeah, the functions--as such--may not change, but how one deals with situations that draw out said functions does change. So, Te for me, is one of those things that either works, or doesn't... Ne, on the other hand, is something that I just blow out of the water every time, and I'm totally unaware of what Si is or means--in a practical sense. And I know an ESTJ friend who's Fi irks the fire out of me, because it's so black and white, and he always "wields" it like a club to beat people away. Actually, he tends to unaware that he is acting out Fi values, and not Te values. That's how our inferior frequently works--we are unaware of it operating. And then he picks on me because he thinks I don't understand how things ought to be. If one didn't understand how cognitive functions work, one would never guess that he and I share the same two judging functions--Fi and Te--only in opposite stacking.

In other words, I'm not sure that an explanation of Fe or Fi that works across the board would be of much use in reality, especially because then everybody could identify with every function--and where would we be then? But not only that, none of them exist in a vacuum. Fi is Fi because it is opposed to Fe. Feeling is opposed to Thinking, and so on. They all interact with other in such a way, that it can be difficult to understand exactly what is happening...


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## Wolls (Oct 9, 2012)

Physics does not correspond to values.. it does not serve them.. it leads to them. If we are talking about throwing a ball? What diff does say gravity care whether a ball is thrown left or right handed? I get its more comfortable one way. Are we determining value based on feeling? Or ? 

Yes. 

I.

Write.

Both.

Hands.. is that a better argument? IT HAS TO BE ACCROSS THE BOARD or it has no value. Its like a physics definition of symmetry. It is only true as far as it is applicable. 

So things change.. you can't account for that change.. or throw off to some planet.. only Jupiter has gravity.. You fail.

Gravity has a worthwhile value because it can explain itself in all uses.

You can't look at any expression of it as more 'accurate'.


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## Wolls (Oct 9, 2012)

As I said. I do not care if you are dominated. What I don't get is why you would think that expression of function was any more or less true then... gravity is gravity.. it is just as true whether you are left or right or existing in a vacuum. SO the Dom funtions are not in fact more valid.. maybe easier to see, but of no more value.. like against the whole. 

Other than my interpersonal lack of skill I don't get the confusion.


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## Grandalf (Jun 7, 2014)

Satan Claus said:


> Fi also knows itself and what it wants more than an Fe user will. Fe users will also sacrifice their own values or needs for the sake of the group.


explains why INTJs are voted "most independent"....... The closest to Fe I'd probably ever get to is "leaving each person to their own devices" when confronting opposing values. 

it all makes sense :shocked:


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