# ENFP vs ESFP



## ThePersona (Nov 28, 2011)

How can one spot the difference?


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## cyamitide (Jul 8, 2010)

If you are talking about yourself try this method of comparing cognitive styles. 
ESFP has causal-deterministic style. ENFP has holographic-panoramic. ENFP's thinking may thus seem simpler and more natural, while ESFPs more elaborate and complicated. Description: Forms of Cognition


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## ThePersona (Nov 28, 2011)

cyamitide said:


> If you are talking about yourself try this method of comparing cognitive styles.
> ESFP has causal-deterministic style. ENFP has holographic-panoramic. ENFP's thinking may thus seem simpler and more natural, while ESFPs more elaborate and complicated. Description: Forms of Cognition


i was looking for a more practical method... Say you happen to know this person... who you can confirm is either ENFP or ESFP... what's the key thing to observe in him?


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

ESFP - ENFP


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## ThePersona (Nov 28, 2011)

fourtines said:


> ESFP - ENFP


Thanks.. but what's with the hooded cat avatar?


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

ThePersona said:


> Thanks.. but what's with the hooded cat avatar?


Gangsta Kitteh is in da hood!


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## ThePersona (Nov 28, 2011)

fourtines said:


> Gangsta Kitteh is da hood!


Lol....
The link you gave me still doesn't sight practical examples...

Would you say ESFPs tend to be more outgoing.. as in how do you tell that a person is living in the moment.... I'd probabably start a new thread on this....


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

My ESFP friend is WAY more trusting than I've ever been in my life.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

ThePersona said:


> Lol....
> The link you gave me still doesn't sight practical examples...
> 
> Would you say ESFPs tend to be more outgoing.. as in how do you tell that a person is living in the moment.... I'd probabably start a new thread on this....


Well it would help you to learn about Se vs. Ne; and/or about the difference between the NF and SP temperaments. 

I'd guess that one of the best things I could tell you is that an ESFP might be more likely to kick your ass, or at least yell at you. There might be something more visceral about their reactions to you, and something more intense about their physical presence. 

But even saying something gives you the impression that ESFPs are likely to have anger problems, when what I mean is that I've noticed that NFs seem to be more diplomatic, or "let's use our indoor voices" or something. NFs really want to understand you. It's not that SPs don't want to understand you, but they're more likely to immediately respond, and then calm down and talk about it later. 

There's no simple clue, I mean we can generalize of course, but until you understand something about personality theory, you're going to look for things like taste in music or level of intelligence or something utterly irrelevant like that.

Maybe ESFPs are more likely to like to watch Jackass? I am a shameless fan of physical stunts and watching boys do things on skateboards. 

I know for a fact my ENFJ sister would never speak the way that I speak or the way my mother speaks, but that may be due to Fe rather than Fi, rather than simply being an NF.

I'm a borderline xSFP by dichotomies, which why I may be of help. I just lean toward ISFP because my mother always seems like the real ESFP to me. She's hella extroverted.


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## ThePersona (Nov 28, 2011)

pinkrasputin said:


> My ESFP friend is WAY more trusting than I've ever been in my life.


Trusting in what sense?


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Okay, I thought of what might be a relevant example:

Say we are working in fast food or a grocery store. There is an ESFP female in her 20's or early 30's, and an ENFP counterpart of the same age.

Then there are teenagers there.

The ESFP is probably more likely to actually assume their level and befriend them, sometimes actually playing like a teenager themselves, even at the mild expense of being seen as immature themselves.

The ENFP is probably more likely to want to guide and develop the teenagers in a certain way. She'll do so gently, kindly, and understandingly - in an open minded, non-judgmental way, definitely not as "strict" with the kids as perhaps her SJ peers would be - but she plays more of a facilitative role than a friend role.

Maybe?


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Note that I'm saying this because I was terrible about befriending my teenaged co-workers when I was in college...not to the point of hanging out with them outside of work, and I would lay down the law if they got truly out of control...but seriously some of them were like my buddies. It's more fun that way and my way of keeping an eye on them. If they see me as one of them, they're more likely to be honest with me. 

Same with one of my nephews. I'm like the "friend aunt" who makes sarcastic jokes. My ENFJ sister also tries to relate to him in a more equal way, but it's obviously so much more facilitative. She's even *reminded me* that he's a kid, like I didn't know that.


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## ThePersona (Nov 28, 2011)

fourtines said:


> Okay, I thought of what might be a relevant example:
> 
> Say we are working in fast food or a grocery store. There is an ESFP female in her 20's or early 30's, and an ENFP counterpart of the same age.
> 
> ...


THis is actually spot on.... I do realize my ENFP friends when they talk they tend to talk in a more advisory manner. They like to tell stories and give advices. The ESFP on the other hand would talk more about, what's goin on.. how are you doing... have you seen this.. have you seen that... more at the moment kind of stuff.

In terms of Activitywise, my ISFP sister like to watch a lot of movies.. I mean really a lot... She and her partner loves goes to the cinemas for almost every new block buster movie that comes out... can you relate to that?


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## Aerorobyn (Nov 11, 2009)

pinkrasputin said:


> My ESFP friend is WAY more trusting than I've ever been in my life.


But you're also a 6, like me. We're natural skeptics.  


Alright, do this little test. Take this supposed ExFP to a strip club and tell them to get up there and do a number for you. If they have horrible coordination and fall off the pole several times, they're most likely ENFP (those clumsy, dipsy Ne-doms). If they have the skill mastered after five seconds and are actually able to perform better than most, if not all of the strippers in the club, then we can conclude they are Se-dom, thus ESFP. If they refuse to get on the pole and dance at all, then you have typed them completely wrong - they're most likely Fi-dom (IxFP).


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## ThePersona (Nov 28, 2011)

Aerorobyn said:


> But you're also a 6, like me. We're natural skeptics.
> 
> 
> Alright, do this little test. Take this supposed ExFP to a strip club and tell them to get up there and do a number for you. If they have horrible coordination and fall off the pole several times, they're most likely ENFP (those clumsy, dipsy Ne-doms). If they have the skill mastered after five seconds and are actually able to perform better than most, if not all of the strippers in the club, then we can conclude they are Se-dom, thus ESFP. If they refuse to get on the pole and dance at all, then you have typed them completely wrong - they're most likely Fi-dom (IxFP).


Being skillful .... isn't that more ESTPish?


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

ThePersona said:


> THis is actually spot on.... I do realize my ENFP friends when they talk they tend to talk in a more advisory manner. They like to tell stories and give advices. The ESFP on the other hand would talk more about, what's goin on.. how are you doing... have you seen this.. have you seen that... more at the moment kind of stuff.
> 
> In terms of Activitywise, my ISFP sister like to watch a lot of movies.. I mean really a lot... She and her partner loves goes to the cinemas for almost every new block buster movie that comes out... can you relate to that?


Yes, I can relate to loving movies, and I also live for music. 

There's an INFP friend I have now, and she also speaks kind of like my sister does, and the way I've witnessed at least one ENFP and one INFJ female speaking consistently on-line...in this really "guiding" manner. It's not strict or defined like an SJ. There's no clear hierarchy. "We're all equal - no one is judging you!" Yet there's an agenda. There's a lot of forethought put in to the speech. This INFP speaks sweetly and with a constant mind to not ever calling people names, saying encouraging things to people, et al. She's clearly put a great deal of thought into being the opposite of abusive. 

So I do think this is an NF quality that - in my opinion - Keirsey is right on about that I don't have as an SP.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

ThePersona said:


> Being skillful .... isn't that more ESTPish?


I think his point is that Se makes people be more in tune with their bodies than Ne in an immediate, adaptive sense. Ne types may need more practice because their sensing is tertiary or inferior Si. 

I used to be a dancer, but unfortunately I was not into MBTI at the time so I cannot give any examples of me versus Ne types dancing. 

I think Se types may be more likely to dance by "feel" I don't know. 

I also don't think that all Se types are good dancers, though. But he's right that they may simply have a better adaptive physical ability in a new situation.

EDIT: You may be right about STPs taking more physical risks though. The ESTP chick might be more likely to flip up on the pole like a monkey just to see what happens with less fear, and pull it off than the SFP.


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## Aerorobyn (Nov 11, 2009)

ThePersona said:


> Being skillful .... isn't that more ESTPish?


ESTP and ESFP are both Se-dom, and that Se will allow them to work the pole like no other. The ESTP, however, has Ti as its aux. function, and this Ti will make them seem a bit more robotic on the pole. Honestly, who wants to see a robotic stripper? Not many people. This isn't to say ESTPs couldn't be a decent stripper, because they definitely could be - but an ESFP, with their Fi-aux, is probably going to put a bit more 'feeling' into the dance itself and make it something you won't forget. As far as the ESTP goes, he's better left serving us our drinks while we watch the strippers.



fourtines said:


> I think *his* point is


I have a vagina!


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Aerorobyn said:


> ESTP and ESFP are both Se-dom, and that Se will allow them to work the pole like no other. The ESTP, however, has Ti as its aux. function, and this Ti will make them seem a bit more robotic on the pole. Honestly, who wants to see a robotic stripper? Not many people. This isn't to say ESTPs couldn't be a decent stripper, because they definitely could be - but an ESFP, with their Fi-aux, is probably going to put a bit more 'feeling' into the dance itself and make it something you won't forget. As far as the ESTP goes, he's better left serving us our drinks while we watch the strippers.


I don't know, man. Some of those ESTP chicks are pretty impressive with their stunts. Now that I'm thinking of it, the girls who were just heavily into major pole tricks but less sensuality may have been the STP girls. I think I worked with an ESTP named Cody. She was so sweet, so pretty, but very very tomboyish and what her dancing lacked in "feel" she more than made up for with her party girl gung-ho personality and freaky pole stunts. Her dancing admittedly was not as sensual as my own, and while I did do backbends, splits, and handstands against the pole, that woman could do crazy gymnast shit. And she taught herself to do it. 





> I have a vagina!


Oh dear. That's what I get for judging your sex by the picture in the avatar instead of the little symbol by the "gender" slot.


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## ThePersona (Nov 28, 2011)

Aerorobyn said:


> ESTP and ESFP are both Se-dom, and that Se will allow them to work the pole like no other. The ESTP, however, has Ti as its aux. function, and this Ti will make them seem a bit more robotic on the pole. Honestly, who wants to see a robotic stripper? Not many people. This isn't to say ESTPs couldn't be a decent stripper, because they definitely could be - but an ESFP, with their Fi-aux, is probably going to put a bit more 'feeling' into the dance itself and make it something you won't forget. As far as the ESTP goes, he's better left serving us our drinks while we watch the strippers.
> I have a vagina!


 
You got it wrong.... Ti does not make a person robotic.. when combined with Se, it makes them like sensory challenges. Pole dacing is definitely a sensory challenge


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## Aerorobyn (Nov 11, 2009)

You seemed to be the type to take everything seriously. 

Good job.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Yeah the more I'm thinking about this I think I also knew an ISTP girl who was an AWESOME FREAKING DANCER ...I mean she made all her money on stage because her technique was incredible...but she wasn't very sensual. She hated doing lap dances and she rarely made eye contact with the men, and when she did do lap dances she mostly just shook her awesome butt (she was known for her butt as well as her technique with dancing).

STP women I think are very good exotic dancers if they concern themselves with technique in terms of dancing or pole tricks, or just raw sexuality.

SFP women are the ones who give the really hot lap dances and make the men think they really want to sleep with them.

I'm still trying to figure out where ENFPs play into all of this.

I'm pretty sure the SFJ girls were the ones who were the perfectly groomed, perfectly dressed ones who made their money off of looking very high maintenance and sitting and talking with the same customer for hours, and snagging "regulars" by this Fe bonding that I found tiresome and was incapable of.

I could have a line waiting for me on lap dances on Friday night, but I never had the crazy stage technique of the two suspected STPs, nor the patience to "bond" deeply with one or two "regulars" like the dancers I suspect to have been SFJs. 

My regulars came back because they liked me and my lap dances, not because I spent most of my night talking to them like they were my boyfriend.


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

Aerorobyn said:


> But you're also a 6, like me. We're natural skeptics.
> 
> 
> Alright, do this little test. Take this supposed ExFP to a strip club and tell them to get up there and do a number for you. If they have horrible coordination and fall off the pole several times, they're most likely ENFP (those clumsy, dipsy Ne-doms). If they have the skill mastered after five seconds and are actually able to perform better than most, if not all of the strippers in the club, then we can conclude they are Se-dom, thus ESFP. If they refuse to get on the pole and dance at all, then you have typed them completely wrong - they're most likely Fi-dom (IxFP).


 This is so wrong in every way. Most ENFPs I know are great dancers. But most of their values might not have them get on a pole.


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## Eerie (Feb 9, 2011)

I couldn't dance well if my life depended on it :tongue:


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## MuChApArAdOx (Jan 24, 2011)

I agree with Pink. I think ENFP would make amazing pole dancers if that's what they choose to do. With that being said, i'm not sure that ENFP could take pole dancing seriously. I enjoy doing this sort of thing in front of my husband, but i wouldn't ever consider doing it as a career. Not to rag on those who do, although for myself personally i wouldn't want to draw that kind of attention to myself. The ENFP i know naturally draw attention without having to put work into it. Too each their own.

The difference between ESFP/ENFP in my mind is this. ENFP are much more intense. Yes, we can have moments of living in the clouds, and i actually enjoy those moments. Stepping of of reality and using my wild imagination is a nice escape. Although when i'm grounded i'm quite intense, serious. The expression on my face can change drastically. I could be all smiley and laughing, but if someone says something that makes me think " Are you for real "....i can give off a cold intense stare that makes them wonder what happened to the smiley girl. ENFP naturally read people. We could purposely bait people for the sole purpose of getting a better vision of who this person is. Their motives and intentions. I like getting reactions out of people, so i may do this often. I do have motives in mind when i behave this way. The way people react to you tells a whole story. Their true self comes flying to the surface. ENFP aren't known to be curious, reporters for nothing. I'm can't see ESFP caring about that stuff. They appear to take people at face value, where ENFP observe and take lots of mental notes about X. We want people to be genuine, and the only way to get that is to put them in a position to react. If they are one way one minute, and another way the next, the answer is obvious.


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