# Would You Date Someone with Herpes?



## Grac3 (Dec 14, 2011)

I don't feel like I would be able to date someone who had herpes. It's not that I would want for it to be that way, or would think any less of the guy himself, but I have to keep my own health in mind as well. And while there's no guarantee that I'm going to catch it, I would rather play it safe than risk getting herpes. Because if I did catch it, then someone would have this same issue with me when considering to date. It would end up cancelling out future possibilities for myself, and understandably so.


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## Shinji Mimura (Aug 1, 2012)

Promethea said:


> At this point I only have jokes that are _really_ inappropriate for _this_ forum. /prom


_NOTHING_ is inappropriate for this forum. Fuck's wrong with you?


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

Shinji Mimura said:


> Yay for nerds!
> 
> Besides, obviously ODB wasn't wise in his selection. But you know what, who cares about STDs when you're FUCKING FAMOUS AND HAVE MONEY N' SHIT?! >DDD


Interestingly enough, all my friends I mentioned are in the entertainment industry as am I, but their partners were not. My best gf is an international opera singer, my ex husband is a film actor, and my best guy friend is a very successful voice over actor in national commercials. So perhaps it's not that you can have STD's because you are famous, but more so if you lead a life of performing, who is going to love you? Maybe a herpes person will? My friends really aren't sluts. My best gf and ex husband are loyal ENFJs and my best guy friend is a fellow ENFP. But like I've already said before, one of the herpes men that approached me was an INTJ.

Lol. This so cannot be boiled down to type. However, in my world and in the case of my friends, it looks like the NFs are _extremely_ forgiving and loyal.


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## Shinji Mimura (Aug 1, 2012)

pinkrasputin said:


> my ex husband is a film actor


Is it Jason Alexander? Please tell me it's Jason Alexander 

Seriously how the fuck do you meet these people? And who's your bestest friend? I want to send him my voice acting demo :3


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

Shinji Mimura said:


> _NOTHING_ is inappropriate for this forum. Fuck's wrong with you?


Yous a funny ninja!


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## Shinji Mimura (Aug 1, 2012)

Promethea said:


> Yous a funny ninja!


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

Shinji Mimura said:


> Is it Jason Alexander? Please tell me it's Jason Alexander
> 
> Seriously how the fuck do you meet these people? And who's your bestest friend? I want to send him my voice acting demo :3


Lol I've said I was in the entertainment industry as well. Musical theater/opera-my specialty. 

My ex husband is way better looking than Jason Alexander, even though that is gross for me to admit. Young girls and old ladies fall in love with him all the time. 

And my bestest ENFP v/o actor guy friend and I were engaged once upon a time. We used to be co-stars. Actually, I have a post about him in an old male virgin thread here somewhere.

All my friends are amazing. In the acting world, there are many NFs. I didn't realize this was not the whole world until lately. And once upon a time, none of us dated men with herpes. In fact my ENFJ opera singer friend now with a herpes man, used to warn me about certain guys in our circle. She'd say things like, "Stay away from him. He has a dirty pee pee." Which meant he was a slut and could potentially have a venereal disease. Life is so ironic.


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

I would appreciate their honesty, but I would not date them.


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## Shinji Mimura (Aug 1, 2012)

pinkrasputin said:


> Lol I've said I was in the entertainment industry as well. Musical theater/opera-my specialty.
> 
> My ex husband is way better looking than Jason Alexander, even though that is gross for me to admit. Young girls and old ladies fall in love with him all the time.
> 
> ...


First lesson of the entertainment industry: everybody is easy. It's kinda surprising given that the females especially tend to be on the more attractive side.

That's cool I spose. I'm planning on a career in the entertainment industry, although it is overseas so hopefully the hoedom is a bit less XD


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## Yardiff Bey (Jun 5, 2011)

pinkrasputin said:


> And once upon a time, none of us dated men with herpes. In fact my ENFJ opera singer friend now with a herpes man, used to warn me about certain guys in our circle. She'd say things like, "Stay away from him. He has a dirty pee pee." Which meant he was a slut and could potentially have a venereal disease. Life is so ironic.


Has the presence of STDs become so prevalent - or her lack of options become so difficult - that she has had to relax her standards? /pensive


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

Shinji Mimura said:


> First lesson of the entertainment industry: everybody is easy. It's kinda surprising given that the females especially tend to be on the more attractive side.
> 
> That's cool I spose. I'm planning on a career in the entertainment industry, although it is overseas so hopefully the hoedom is a bit less XD


We're not easy, just attractive. And everyone approaches us because we are very visible. However, my friends and me just want stability with one devoted partner. Our careers are unstable enough. We need some grounding.

My ex husband's girlfriend who got herpes contracted it when she lost her virginity. She really isn't a slut either. Oh. Btw, she is not NF. She is ESFP. 

And again I say none of the people I've mentioned who have herpes are in the entertainment industry. But they are dating my friends who are in the entertainment industry. Artists having a bleeding heart.

Lol. I've given almost everyone involved the MBTI test.


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## Shinji Mimura (Aug 1, 2012)

...eh, I still say easy. If you mean attractive physically, I'd say I agree with that for the most part. My experiences with theatre have been with those on a pretty reasonable attractive scale. If you mean personalitywise...I think I'd heavily disagree there, but ymmv. I think most people want stability and a partner, but what I've found interesting is that many entertainers really do need somebody within their industry who can understand how traveling and work schedules can be on relationships (I say interesting because I learned this first from interviews with porn stars XD).

I've heard of people contracting STDs for their virginity. Blows dogs. I lost my virginity to a virgin, so I inadvertently played it megasafe.


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

Yardiff Bey said:


> Has the presence of STDs become so prevalent - or her lack of options become so difficult - that she has had to relax her standards? /pensive


She's actually matured a lot over the years as a judger. Just like my mom. She has learned to focus on how a man treats her and his level of devotion to her, over her preconceived ideas about the way the world or him "should be". 

She is extremely happy now. And this guy loves her very much. She has also let go of societal expectations and has chosen to function based on her own happiness. She is not too worried about what the world thinks of herpes.

This woman has gone to Princeton for her education after we were colleagues during undergrad. She really isn't dumb. And she deserves a happy life because she is so loyal and focused.


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## Yardiff Bey (Jun 5, 2011)

pinkrasputin said:


> She's actually matured a lot over the years as a judger. Just like my mom. She has learned to focus on how a man treats her and his level of devotion to her, over her preconceived ideas about the way the world or him "should be".
> 
> She is extremely happy now. And this guy loves her very much. She has also let go of societal expectations and has chosen to function based on her own happiness. She is not too worried about what the world thinks of herpes.
> 
> This woman has gone to Princeton for her education after we were colleagues during undergrad. She really isn't dumb. And she deserves a happy life because she is so loyal and focused.


Apologies, I hadn't meant to imply that she was stupid or anything. Seriously, I was wondering if she had run out of options.

Good to hear that she is extremely happy.


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## Erbse (Oct 15, 2010)

Doesn't almost anyone have herpes to begin with?

Whether or not it breaks out is a different matter.

Just sayin', though.


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## Eerie (Feb 9, 2011)

I would not do it. Ever.


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## zallla (Oct 11, 2011)

We met when we were 17 and my SO was my first and I was his so we have never had any of these discussions and I'm quite sure we won't and I'm pretty happy about it.

I feel bad for those who have herpes but of course, wouldn't want to get it by myself, diseases like that freak me out. I don't know how I would have reacted if I had been told that he had herpes when we fell in love. I guess I would've been with him anyway, I did many other things just because I loved him so much anyway. Now when I think of that, I feel thankful that I didn't have the chance to be so stupid xD


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## bromide (Nov 28, 2011)

Ehhh. This is a difficult question for me. My first inclination would be to say no, but on the other hand I tend towards the demisexual end of the spectrum so being attracted enough to someone to want to pursue a relationship with them requires that there is a close friendship in the first place. If that were the case, if they had herpes I would probably still want to be with them but it would be a point of anxiety and result in extensive precaution-taking. If it was a situation where I was on a date with someone I had recently met and they disclosed that, I would respect their frankness but would rule them out for a relationship. 

Fwiw a close family member of mine has herpes and she has a very supportive partner who cares about her enough to stick with her through it. I think that's sweet, it's a lucky thing to meet someone who likes you enough to be with you when your junk starts brimming with warts.


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## StellarTwirl (Jul 1, 2012)

If I thought someone could be a soulmate, I wouldn't reject him/her because of herpes. Love is too important.

But very, very few relationships have that potential, so it's more likely that I'd say, "It's not gonna happen, but we can still be friends."


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## Proteus (Mar 5, 2010)

I would not date someone with the herp.
Nor would I date someone with the derp.


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## koalaroo (Nov 25, 2011)

No, I would not date someone with herpes, because to me a relationship will eventually be on a road to sex and marriage. I'd really rather not live my life with the disease.


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## Serak (Jul 26, 2012)

Sex means so little to me and I tend to forget about it easily. So if my romantic partner had the disease? Looks like my mind has one less thing to think about it whenever an outbreak is going down (and it can use all the space it can get sometimes!).
So that's a yes from me.


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## android654 (Jan 19, 2010)

Eerie said:


> I would not do it. Ever.


Seconded. Granted you can't plan for everything, but if you know for a fact that the person has something that's so highly communicable like herpes you would have a lot of caution before eagerly fucking this person.


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

Erbse said:


> Doesn't almost anyone have herpes to begin with?
> 
> Whether or not it breaks out is a different matter.
> 
> Just sayin', though.


This is actually my understanding. And that many people who have it, don't test positive if they are not in the middle of an outbreak.


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## Kyandigaru (Mar 11, 2012)

pinkrasputin said:


> Would you date someone with herpes? I have 3 friends now who do not have herpes but are or have been in a long term relationship with someone who has herpes. One of my friends just found the man of her dreams, has moved in with him, and told me that he has herpes. Apparently, it's common. It just hasn't been common in my world.
> 
> So folks, what are your views?


herpes is very common, but that don't mean its acceptable to fool someone who you've been dating just so they can date you for who you are and not judge you for what you have. There's not possible way for me to answer this without sounding judgemental or harsh, but I wouldnt date anyone with herpes.


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## Paradox1987 (Oct 9, 2010)

No. Plain and simple. I run a clear cut policy of if you wish to share my bed, life, or engage in intimacy with you must not present a heightened risk of STI exposure. If you already have an STI, I couldn't do it. Though I know people do engage in romantic relationships with people with STIs, I myself could not do it.


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

Paradox1987 said:


> No. Plain and simple. I run a clear cut policy of if you wish to share my bed, life, or engage in intimacy with you must not present a heightened risk of STI exposure. If you already have an STI, I couldn't do it. Though I know people do engage in romantic relationships with people with STIs, I myself could not do it.


Yeah. My ENFP guy friend was in a relationship with a woman with herpes. And while he was, I could totally see him doing it to make her feel beautiful and accepted. I could also see my ENFJ ex doing it for the same reason with his girlfriend. I know these two men very well and I can tell how they would "suspend judgment" if someone they loved told them that. I think it would hurt them more to reject someone based on this condition.

Sort of interesting that the movie _Philadelphia_ just came on t.v. about a week ago. I watched it, and it sort of made me feel accountable when judging. I mean, there are people who have stayed with their partners through AIDS.


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## Paradox1987 (Oct 9, 2010)

pinkrasputin said:


> Yeah. My ENFP guy friend was in a relationship with a woman with herpes. And while he was, I could totally see him doing it to make her feel beautiful and accepted. I could also see my ENFJ ex doing it for the same reason with his girlfriend. I know these two men very well and I can tell how they would "suspend judgment" if someone they loved told them that. I think it would hurt them more to reject someone based on this condition.
> 
> Sort of interesting that the movie _Philadelphia_ just came on t.v. about a week ago. I watched it, and it sort of made me feel accountable when judging. I mean, there are people who have stayed with their partners through AIDS.


Yeah, it's not a judgment thing for me. I mean I sincerely doubt anyone plans to get themselves an STI. I respect those people that can do that, but I'm relatively risk averse when it comes to illnesses. It sort of depends how they got the STI and in what circumstances too. E.g. An ex of mine caught chlamydia cheating on me. Needless to say, I walked out of that relationship. Had the roles been reversed, I'd expect my partner to walk out on me too. But if, e.g. The infection has been transmitted "innocently" or by accident through malpractice etc, (AND, I was already with them at the time) then I'd not leave my partner. I couldn't do that, because it would go against my personal code. 

I don't think an STI would be a barrier to a fulfilling and emotionally stable relationship per se, but it would cause too great a degree of discomfort for me to be able to offer them a fulfilling or stable relationship off the bat. If that makes any sense?


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## koalaroo (Nov 25, 2011)

Also wanted to point this out, though it is a different circumstance than herpes. I had a friend who was dating a guy who swore up and down that he was clean, even though his ex was a "cheating whore." When she broke up with him, she found out that she had two treatable STIs and that she had an abnormal pap smear due to an HPV infection that had to be frozen or lazered off. So basically she found out that he was the lying, cheating whore in his previous relationship.


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

koalaroo said:


> Also wanted to point this out, though it is a different circumstance than herpes. I had a friend who was dating a guy who swore up and down that he was clean, even though his ex was a "cheating whore." When she broke up with him, she found out that she had two treatable STIs and that she had an abnormal pap smear due to an HPV infection that had to be frozen or lazered off. So basically she found out that he was the lying, cheating whore in his previous relationship.


People lie all the time. I guess that's why it's sort of genuine when a guy tells me he has herpes before we've even had sex. There is no way I would know he had herpes if he wasn't having an outbreak. So someone could totally hide it. And I'm sure he knows the issuing of this information may cause someone to split. So that is a big difference between your friend's story and what I've experienced with these two men who have actually told me.


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## Eerie (Feb 9, 2011)

android654 said:


> Seconded. Granted you can't plan for everything, but if you know for a fact that the person has something that's so highly communicable like herpes you would have a lot of caution before eagerly fucking this person.


I suppose that's why I am very stringent when it comes to testing. And that's why I do usually wait in a relationship for a certain amount of time so that the testing can be as accurate as possible. I guess I'm a weirdo though, I know how common hsv1 is but I still do not want to be in a relationship with someone who has hsv1 because it can be passed do the other areas and genital hsv1 or hsv2 is not something I ever want to have to deal with.


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## Mutatio NOmenis (Jun 22, 2009)

If you date and have sex with people who aren't virgins, it is very likely that you will run into lovely people who have herpes. The answer is to wear a condom.


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

Mutatio NOmenis said:


> If you date and have sex with people who aren't virgins, it is very likely that you will run into lovely people who have herpes. The answer is to wear a condom.


One more time: Condoms will not protect you from herpes during an outbreak. This is because condoms may not cover the area in which there is an outbreak. 

I guess I shall add that to the OP.


EDIT: Okay, I've edited the OP and have added this info: http://www.globalherbalsupplies.com/herpes/prevention.html


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

Eerie said:


> I suppose that's why I am very stringent when it comes to testing. And that's why I do usually wait in a relationship for a certain amount of time so that the testing can be as accurate as possible. I guess I'm a weirdo though, I know how common hsv1 is but I still do not want to be in a relationship with someone who has hsv1 because it can be passed do the other areas and genital hsv1 or hsv2 is not something I ever want to have to deal with.


Then as you know, a blood test in the only test that can accurately give you a diagnosis for herpes, even when there is no outbreak present.

However, it may takes weeks for the antigen to show up in a person's blood after a person has contracted the herpes virus. So if it hasn't been long enough, the blood test may not indicate that the infected person has been infected. That is why there are many people walking around exposing each other to herpes without even knowing they have it themselves. That is also why herpes is so common.

The only way to really prevent herpes is to never had sex ever.


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## Luke (Oct 17, 2010)

If I really cared about someone and felt a real connection with them, I think I probably would. With the high prevalence rate (I've heard 1 in 6) and the fact that a large proportion of those people do not actually know they have it, it means that the risk is always there when you have a sexual relationship. The people who know they have it and are honest enough to inform potential partners about it are really shouldering the burden of the disease for everyone else. I think the fact that they were honest about it says very good things about their character. I would consider it to be something that we can find a way to work around. I would of course see a doctor, preferably alone and with the other person present. Even if it meant that we had to have a somewhat unorthodox sexual relationship to greatly reduce the chance of infection, I would be happy with that, because I know that whenever I have a sexual relationship with someone there is always some level of risk. I also think there are so many other levels of intimacy besides sex and there are other forms of sexual intimacy besides penetrative sex, so I think it would be possible to work something out.


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## android654 (Jan 19, 2010)

pinkrasputin said:


> Then as you know, a blood test in the only test that can accurately give you a diagnosis for herpes, even when there is no outbreak present.
> 
> However, it may takes weeks for the antigen to show up in a person's blood after a person has contracted the herpes virus. So if it hasn't been long enough, the blood test may not indicate that the infected person has been infected. That is why there are many people walking around exposing each other to herpes without even knowing they have it themselves. That is also why herpes is so common.
> 
> The only way to really prevent herpes is to never had sex ever.


Or you can cross your fingers. I've been lucky so far... I think. 

Now I think I need to get tested.


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## Eerie (Feb 9, 2011)

pinkrasputin said:


> Then as you know, a blood test in the only test that can accurately give you a diagnosis for herpes, even when there is no outbreak present.
> 
> However, it may takes weeks for the antigen to show up in a person's blood after a person has contracted the herpes virus. So if it hasn't been long enough, the blood test may not indicate that the infected person has been infected. That is why there are many people walking around exposing each other to herpes without even knowing they have it themselves. That is also why herpes is so common.
> 
> The only way to really prevent herpes is to never had sex ever.


Quest Diagnostics: The HerpeSelect (R)' Test for HSV-1 and HSV-2 It's a type specific herpes test. They do exist. But a regular herpes test does just fine, if it shows up positive I wouldn't continue the relationship. And I'm not a virgin, and somehow also prevented myself from getting either type of herpes so I think I'm doing pretty good. :happy:

Although, it doesn't matter. Both my bf and myself were tested before we were ever intimate. And since I'm not single, my opinion on this is pretty irrelevant. But I already have one of the most painful debilitating skin diseases someone could have, I'm never going to have a casual attitude about adding another one to the list.


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## Mutatio NOmenis (Jun 22, 2009)

pinkrasputin said:


> One more time: Condoms will not protect you from herpes during an outbreak. This is because condoms may not cover the area in which there is an outbreak.
> 
> I guess I shall add that to the OP.
> 
> ...


NOTE: Female condoms are more effective due to covering more of the afflicted area. I ought to have included that at the start.


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## ForsakenMe (Aug 30, 2010)

If I'm damn sure we're gonna be together for good, yes.


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## nakkinaama (Jun 20, 2012)

I would love to share herpes with someone I love.


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## Yardiff Bey (Jun 5, 2011)

pinkrasputin said:


> Yeah. My ENFP guy friend was in a relationship with a woman with herpes. And while he was, I could totally see him doing it to make her feel beautiful and accepted. I could also see my ENFJ ex doing it for the same reason with his girlfriend. I know these two men very well and I can tell how they would "suspend judgment" if someone they loved told them that. I think it would hurt them more to reject someone based on this condition.
> 
> Sort of interesting that the movie _Philadelphia_ just came on t.v. about a week ago. I watched it, and it sort of made me feel accountable when judging. I mean, there are people who have stayed with their partners through AIDS.


It isn't a case of judging someone, simply a case of not wanting to have my next 50+ years of life potentially messed up by this type of thing. After all, it's simply a date and possible first-time sex - there is no real way to tell at this point if this is going to become a proper lifetime love-affair. Kudo's to those guys for letting you know up front, they have good values.

If someone I was in a lifetime love-affair with suddenly turned up with an STD, I would for-sure be wanting to know exactly how it came about. Cheating? Bye-bye and pray that I haven't caught it. Malpractice? The people involved would find themselves on the end of a helluva lawsuit for damaging my and my partner's quality of life for the next 50+ years.

Sometimes the judgement doesn't come out (don't have the right to judge someone for something that may have been accidental), sometimes the judgement does come out. Two entirely different situations.



android654 said:


> Or you can cross your fingers. I've been lucky so far... I think.
> 
> Now I think I need to get tested.


I know damn well that I've been lucky so far, and I have been tested recently. A couple of months ago I was going through a bad-health situation and my doc suggested a check for STDs, just in case. I agreed because that may very well have been the cause. Clean, it turned out I was just short of Vitamin B12.


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## Kainita (Aug 31, 2011)

STDS are fairly common and fear of sex with an individual who has an STD seems to be the normal reaction. There are many things a STD can cause or affect. I don't think should be scared to have sex with an individual due to their herpes. You are correct that you can get herpes even with a condom(assuming you are speaking of herpes simplex 2), but that does not mean condoms are ineffective. Herpes(like HPV) is spread through skin to skin contact, no body fluids needed. Condoms are recommended, if you think about having sex... use them.


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

Luke said:


> If I really cared about someone and felt a real connection with them, I think I probably would. With the high prevalence rate (I've heard 1 in 6) and the fact that a large proportion of those people do not actually know they have it, it means that the risk is always there when you have a sexual relationship. The people who know they have it and are honest enough to inform potential partners about it are really shouldering the burden of the disease for everyone else. I think the fact that they were honest about it says very good things about their character. I would consider it to be something that we can find a way to work around. I would of course see a doctor, preferably alone and with the other person present. Even if it meant that we had to have a somewhat unorthodox sexual relationship to greatly reduce the chance of infection, I would be happy with that, because I know that whenever I have a sexual relationship with someone there is always some level of risk. I also think there are so many other levels of intimacy besides sex and there are other forms of sexual intimacy besides penetrative sex, so I think it would be possible to work something out.


I just received the latest information from Planned Parenthood:



> Genital herpes is very common-about *one in every five adults in the U.S. is infected.*. Most people know that herpes can be spread to someone else when there is an obvious outbreak with blisters and sores. But many are not aware that people with Mild or no symptoms can pass the infection to their partners. They may not even know they have herpes because their symptoms are so mild they don't notice them.






Kainita said:


> STDS are fairly common and fear of sex with an individual who has an STD seems to be the normal reaction. There are many things a STD can cause or affect. I don't think should be scared to have sex with an individual due to their herpes. You are correct that you can get herpes even with a condom(assuming you are speaking of herpes simplex 2), but that does not mean condoms are ineffective. Herpes(like HPV) is spread through skin to skin contact, no body fluids needed. Condoms are recommended, if you think about having sex... use them.


Well one of these men who told me they have herpes, informed me his outbreaks are at the hairline where a condom doesn't cover. So this is a case where wearing a condom wouldn't be helpful or protect.


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## android654 (Jan 19, 2010)

pinkrasputin said:


> Well one of these men who told me they have herpes, informed me his outbreaks are at the hairline where a condom doesn't cover. So this is a case where wearing a condom wouldn't be helpful or protect.


LOL! How many times are you going to be forced to repeat that.


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## bella123 (Aug 12, 2012)

LOL, wtf?!


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## Luke (Oct 17, 2010)

pinkrasputin said:


> Well one of these men who told me they have herpes, informed me his outbreaks are at the hairline where a condom doesn't cover. So this is a case where wearing a condom wouldn't be helpful or protect.


I know a condom doesn't provide full protection, it also doesn't provide full protection with HPV, but I think it does significantly reduce the chance of infection.

I think touching someones gentials with your hands is unlikely to result in the infection spreading. If it did, then herpes could be spread by an infected person touching themselves and then shaking hands with someone. I'm fairly certain that there aren't any STDs that can be transfered in this way. I'm not sure about touching someones gentials and then touching your own shortly after, but I suspect the chance of infection would be quite low. I think a sexual relationship involving only the use of hands could be actually quite satisfying, espeacially if it was with someone you really loved. So if I were to date someone with herpes, that is the type of option I would consider. I think that with any intimate sexual encounter the risk of infection is higher than shaking hands, because there is the possibility that hands could enter mouth or some other orifice while they still had fluid on them (graphic, I know, but I'm trying to be practical) but I think if the two people were careful it could be ok. I would always check with a doctor before trying anything like this.

I entirely support people's wish to protect themselves from disease by any means that they feel is right for them. I just personally think that finding someone who you truly love and are compatiable with is so rare, that if I did find someone like that and they just happened to have an incredibily common disease like herpes, I would explore my options carefully and look for creative solutions, rather than giving up on the relationship entirely.


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

Luke said:


> I know a condom doesn't provide full protection, it also doesn't provide full protection with HPV, but I think it does significantly reduce the chance of infection.
> 
> I think touching someones gentials with your hands is unlikely to result in the infection spreading. If it did, then herpes could be spread by an infected person touching themselves and then shaking hands with someone. I'm fairly certain that there aren't any STDs that can be transfered in this way. I think a sexual relationship involving only the use of hands could be actually quite satisfying, espeacially if it was with someone you really loved. So if I were to date someone with herpes, that is the type of option I would consider. I think that with any intimate sexual encounter the risk of infection is higher than shaking hands, because there is the possibility that hands could enter mouth or some other orifice while they still had fluid on them (graphic, I know, but I'm trying to be practical) but I think if the two people were careful it could be ok.
> 
> I entirely support people's wish to protect themselves from disease by any means that they feel is right for them. I just personally think that finding someone who you truly love and are compatiable with is so rare, that if I did find someone like that and they just happened to have an incredibily common disease like herpes, I would explore my options carefully and look for creative solutions, rather than giving up on the relationship entirely.


I honestly have found both of your posts beautiful. Clearly my closest friends are similar to you in their way of thinking. I just spoke with my ENFP guy friend on the phone that was in a relationship with a woman who had herpes. He was very much in love with her and when she voiced her concern to him he told me he said, "So what? It's a part of you. I love all of you. We will deal with this together. It's a part of me now."

He never got the virus himself.


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## bella123 (Aug 12, 2012)

Sorry, I er...:tongue: didn't mean that to come across as insensitive, I'm new on here and haven't really visited the sexual section, I just saw the title and forgot I was on a personality forum for a minute :laughing:

To add a more useful contribution, I would consider it if it was a long term partnership. The likely risk of catching it, I mean.


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## ElectricHead (Jun 3, 2011)

No, I wouldn't, unless I didn't know or I had the virus myself. If I had the virus, I would only date(or have sex with) others that have it as I wouldn't want to risk spreading it. There must be some online dating site for people with this type of thing.


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## Sonny (Oct 14, 2008)

Mutatio NOmenis said:


> If you date and have sex with people who aren't virgins, it is very likely that you will run into lovely people who have herpes. The answer is to wear a condom.





pinkrasputin said:


> One more time: Condoms will not protect you from herpes during an outbreak.


And HSV-1 doesn't care if someone is a virgin.


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## Sonny (Oct 14, 2008)

rejectedreality said:


> No, I wouldn't, unless I didn't know or I had the virus myself. If I had the virus, I would only date(or have sex with) others that have it as I wouldn't want to risk spreading it. There must be some online dating site for people with this type of thing.


HSV-1, HSV-2, or both? Because if you mean HSV-1 or both then the majority of the population, at least in the US will need to be quarantined to a special herpes dating site, which looking at the math suggests maybe a dating site for those free of any form of the virus would be more efficient.



> Herpes simplex virus (HSV) infection is extremely common in the United States: about 68% of individuals over age 12 are seropositive for HSV-1, and more than 20% are seropositive for HSV-2.


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## Mutatio NOmenis (Jun 22, 2009)

Sonny said:


> And HSV-1 doesn't care if someone is a virgin.


Does that mean in can get at me if I'm the only human being in 500 miles? XD


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## badger7 (Jul 7, 2012)

no I am extremely paranoid about this stuff


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## Sonny (Oct 14, 2008)

Mutatio NOmenis said:


> Does that mean in can get at me if I'm the only human being in 500 miles? XD


All is not lost, hermits are likely safe.


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## ElectricHead (Jun 3, 2011)

Sonny said:


> HSV-1, HSV-2, or both? Because if you mean HSV-1 or both then the majority of the population, at least in the US will need to be quarantined to a special herpes dating site, which looking at the math suggests maybe a dating site for those free of any form of the virus would be more efficient.



Okay, you're a herpes expert I see. People who get cold sores are assholes if they don't tell a potential partner about it. Genital herpes people are even more irresponsible if they spread it around because it's more gross.
One should ask their partner to take a test before sex. It works for me and no one has ever been offended, nor have I when asked to take a test myself. 

You say quarantined as if I am suggesting people with herpes should be rounded up and forced to isolation. 
I don't know what you are referring to when you say efficient, unless it pertains toward your quarantine assumption. 
My herpes dating site suggestion wasn't aimed toward a goal other than making it easier for people with herpes to meet one another if they didn't want to risk spreading their herpes around to clean people. I am not suggesting it to be forced. In this regard, a dating site would be just as efficient as any dating site for any other group of people, regardless of the stats. The goal isn't about efficiency really anyway, it's about providing a community. 

If so many people are going around spreading their herpes all over the place, then a meet-up or dating site or whatever for those who don't have it wouldn't be a bad idea either.


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## Master Mind (Aug 15, 2011)

rejectedreality said:


> One should ask their partner to take a test before sex. It works for me and no one has ever been offended, nor have I when asked to take a test myself.


This should be standard practice for everyone who's sexually active or plans to be. It's too serious to take lightly. And no one should take offense to being asked to take a test unless they have something to hide.


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## Yardiff Bey (Jun 5, 2011)

City's Genital Herpes Rate Is Above National Average - NYTimes.com

NYC has a higher genital herpes rate than the rest of America.

26% of men
36% of women

And that was back in 2008, so it's probably worse now. Ouch. <_<


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## Tristan427 (Dec 9, 2011)

rejectedreality said:


> Okay, you're a herpes expert I see. People who get cold sores are assholes if they don't tell a potential partner about it. Genital herpes people are even more irresponsible if they spread it around because it's more gross.
> One should ask their partner to take a test before sex. It works for me and no one has ever been offended, nor have I when asked to take a test myself.
> 
> You say quarantined as if I am suggesting people with herpes should be rounded up and forced to isolation.
> ...


Calm down. You seem to be taking what he said as some sort of insult, but he's right. A dating site for the uninfected would be mathematically ideal. And he was in no way claiming to be an expert.


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

Okay. I just put my foot in my mouth once again. I was telling a colleague of mine about this topic. She gave me her opinion and facts and then she told me she, her dad, and her brother had herpes. 

She is very much into health and fitness. She also mentioned she is "straight up" with any partner about her having it and "if they have a problem with it that's their thing. There are plenty other people out there who do want to date me."


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## Up and Away (Mar 5, 2011)

Yes but i wouldnt have sex will love. Which I shouldnt anyway. And if I did, oh well, with certain measures there is less than 1 percent chance.


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

TreeBob said:


> I can't say the things I want because of my current job on this forum. I feel bad for the people who have herpes and read this thread.


I hope that you can also see that it's created an awareness. There have been some really good, informative and sensitive posts as well. 

I don't believe not discussing the issue at all is going to reduce the stigma. I also believe without a doubt, there are people who have read my thread who know they have some form of herpes. I've been sensitive to that fact all along. And I was hoping they would feel free to post or at least not give have to give up too much personal information or feel pressured to admit it, but perhaps would still enlighten with knowledge. 

There are more threads in the Sex and Relationship forum dealing with "Threesomes" and "Can men and women Be Friends?", than I can count. This is at a point where I'm gaining very little knowledge. Many people want to act like "Yes I swing from the rafters and have crazy monkey sex!" But when I mention herpes, it's like "Shit gets real"  Which is lame because herpes has been real apparently for awhile and it's really common. Just because to my knowledge, I hadn't come across it before in a relationship, that doesn't mean it's a statistical reality _at all._ 

I have a friend who has herpes, have a few friends who've dated or are dating someone with herpes, and I've dated a man with herpes. It's just too common to sweep under the rug anymore. 

The other reality is, there are people who feel very strongly one way or the other. I would like to know why or why not. It's like a critical thinking class where I have to learn the way different people think on the subject. It's important to learn this because we are all trying to co-exist with each other. It's actually dangerous to pretend that those who think differently from you don't live in this world. 

Btw, the only reason my friend opened up to me that she had it, was because I asked her the same question I asked in the OP.

I was really on the fence about this topic, so I asked my question openly and honestly. Not only did I start a thread on this forum, I walked my ass into Planned Parenthood to acquire even more knowledge. All the research I've done, including talking to those who have it, and friends who have a partner who have it, has really been enlightening. 

If anything I hope every one who has read this thread has learned just how common it is. And hopefully I've put my foot in my mouth more than enough times for everybody. I'm walking everyone through my process to understanding. This is because I like to take people with me when I learn something new. I see it as beneficial to the world.


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## Tristan427 (Dec 9, 2011)

rejectedreality said:


> *Wow, you calm down.* I wasn't insulted at all. He quoted my comment and gave me an opportunity to clarify myself because I couldn't tell if he took what I was saying the wrong way. It seemed like he did to me kind of.
> 
> I also realized that perhaps he didn't and was merely contributing to the idea of a dating site for herpes people. I then agreed with him, although for different reason (I never cared about math stats in this regard, but more of a humanly, helpful aspect).
> 
> I said expert rather smart-assedly but I did find it funny that he knew so much about herpes and wasn't very modest about it. sorry.


@ The bold. Seriously? 

Your post reeked of passive aggressiveness, so either it was directed at him or something else was bothering you. 

A dating site for people with STD's sounds like something a totalitarian regime would do. One for people without could simply be seen as healthy people trying to stay healthy.


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## ElectricHead (Jun 3, 2011)

Tristan427 said:


> @ The bold. Seriously?
> 
> Your post reeked of passive aggressiveness, so either it was directed at him or something else was bothering you.
> 
> A dating site for people with STD's sounds like something a totalitarian regime would do. One for people without could simply be seen as healthy people trying to stay healthy.



Yes. "Seriously". You took it the wrong way. Sonny seems to be okay with what we were talking about. 

Why would you compare a dating site for people with STDs as a totalitarian regime? They have a choice to join the site or not. I've given my reasons why I think it would be a good idea and it's to help those who choose it. Anyway. moving on. I like your avatar.


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## SenhorFrio (Apr 29, 2010)

nope, wouldn't want the risk


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## Tristan427 (Dec 9, 2011)

rejectedreality said:


> Yes. "Seriously". You took it the wrong way. Sonny seems to be okay with what we were talking about.
> 
> Why would you compare a dating site for people with STDs as a totalitarian regime? They have a choice to join the site or not. I've given my reasons why I think it would be a good idea and it's to help those who choose it. Anyway. moving on. I like your avatar.


How was I in any way not calm?

People that joined the site would likely face ridicule, and once the site was established I imagine plenty would be pressured into joining by those that knew of their STIs. People shouldn't be seen as clean or unclean, people should just be people. 

Why thank you.  I like yours as well.


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## SumSamurai (Sep 9, 2010)

No. I don't have herpes and I'm not catching it for no bugger, even if I loved them.. You can't have safe sex with someone who has it as it can be asymptomatic. It doesn't need to be visible when shedding for you to be highly susceptible to it. In love, I want freedom, freedom to have unprotected sex if I wish... And if I break up with a partner, I want to be clean for my next lover. 

If I did have herpes however, I would date someone how also has it rather than spread it around.. :/ There are actually STD dating sites!


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## ElectricHead (Jun 3, 2011)

TreeBob said:


> I can't say the things I want because of my current job on this forum. I feel bad for the people who have herpes and read this thread.


You should say it anyway. You sound like you really want to. I'd like to hear your opinions, as I'm sure many others here do.
Tree BOB! Tree BOB! Tree BOB! Tree...


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## ElectricHead (Jun 3, 2011)

Tristan427 said:


> How was I in any way not calm?
> 
> People that joined the site would likely face ridicule, and once the site was established I imagine plenty would be pressured into joining by those that knew of their STIs. People shouldn't be seen as clean or unclean, people should just be people.
> 
> Why thank you.  I like yours as well.




I don't see how a dating site would cause any more ridicule than they already possibly face, if any. They are either open with their herpes or aren't, and if they stuck to dating other people with herpes (again, their choice or not) then it seems to me that they have a lesser chance at facing ridicule. They can find a partner who sticks with them and never tell another soul (just please don't use a public pool if having a breakout though. I know that sounds insensitive).

If someone is rejected because of their herpes they can continue to look for someone who doesn't care. 

I imagine that you are right with your imagining that people would pressure them into joining a site.
Like a bald man being pressured to buy some Rogaine. A fat person being pressured to go to the gym. Like the Rogaine and gym, a dating site is there to help and isn't the source of blame. A fat dude can like how he jiggles, a bald dude can like how his head shines, and someone with herpes can easily ignore the peer pressure and continue to date normally in hopes to find someone who doesn't care. Herpes is just another aspect of them, like any other aspect about them, that people will accept or not. I imagine that there are some douches that will unnecessarily make someone feel like shit for whatever reason but hopefully that's a small minority. Some think they're doing them a "favor" by nagging them about joining a dating site, but one could handle that the same as any other type of peer pressure. Ignore it and tell them to go fuck themselves if it gets out of hand. 

I don't understand why it's so hard to get that a herpes dating site would be there for those who like that option. I know I would if I had herpes.

By the way, I want to be very clear that I don't see people with herpes as monsters or abnormal. I just simply don't want to take the risk of getting it myself. I can take preventative measures all day but the anxiety would still be there, interferring with the relationship. I know people with herpes and don't even think about it when I'm around them. If I got the virus myself, I wouldn't shoot myself in the head. I would inform my current girlfriend and go from there. If she can't deal, I would sulk for awhile until I'm ready to date again and then probably check out herpespassions.com (I love the name of that one). 

The dating site would be like any other dating site. For people who want to give it a shot and see if they have more luck, or out of curiosity, or whatever reason your heart desires. It's not forced, it's not the Death Star, it's not Stalinism. 
It's not like infected people are marked with some identification mark of some kind, similar to that of a scarlet letter or Star of David. Oh wait...


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## ElectricHead (Jun 3, 2011)

SumSamurai said:


> If I did have herpes however, I would date someone how also has it rather than spread it around.. :/ There are actually STD dating sites!


Lol, good idea. It's exciting isn't it!


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## Sapphyreopal5 (Jun 11, 2012)

Hmm after reading more posts, I am curious as to what makes people more concerned in regards to possibly catching herpes: the idea of having a virus for your whole life (and one that is contagious to others), or the social stigma attached to having the virus. From what I've noticed in other people who have herpes, before they had herpes they thought it was this monstrous, nightmare disease. Afterwards? At least the people I know who have it became much more educated on the disease and wonder why people panic at the idea of having herpes. It's kind of ironic really. That isn't the case with everyone but still, just something I thought about earlier today....


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## RepairmanMan Man (Jan 21, 2012)

You guys do realize the Herpes virus is the exact same thing as cold sores? There are two strains, Herpes simplex I and Herpes simplex II...you can contract both in either area, and they've got identical symptoms.

How come it's normal to have cold sores, but you'll be stigmatized for having "genital herpes"? If it's not a big deal _on your face_...why should it be a big deal anywhere else? This is one of those absurd standards that society imposes on us.


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## Shahada (Apr 26, 2010)

holyrockthrower said:


> How come it's normal to have cold sores, but you'll be stigmatized for having "genital herpes"? If it's not a big deal _on your face_...why should it be a big deal anywhere else? This is one of those absurd standards that society imposes on us.


The beginning of the social stigma around genital herpes and the general public hysteria about it in the US coincided roughly with pharmaceutical companies coming up with antiviral drugs to treat and prevent it. Draw your own conclusions.


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## Icebreaker (Aug 20, 2012)

No way


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## Trinidad (Apr 16, 2010)

pinkrasputin said:


> Intelligent words.


I applaud you for starting a thread like this and approaching the topic with such openness and desire to learn. People could learn a lot from you, thank you.


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## Sapphyreopal5 (Jun 11, 2012)

holyrockthrower said:


> You guys do realize the Herpes virus is the exact same thing as cold sores? There are two strains, Herpes simplex I and Herpes simplex II...you can contract both in either area, and they've got identical symptoms.
> 
> How come it's normal to have cold sores, but you'll be stigmatized for having "genital herpes"? If it's not a big deal _on your face_...why should it be a big deal anywhere else? This is one of those absurd standards that society imposes on us.


a. People are afraid of things they don't understand.
b. People think that you only get genital herpes because you made a mistake in choosing a sexual partner(s).
c. People think you only get genital herpes by having sex with a lot of partners. 
d. People place a lot of value on sexuality (and being "clean") and don't want it to be compromised. 
e. People get cold sores often as a kid, whereas genital herpes when you're older (again, they assume you only get it after intercourse, which is not true).
f. People only see nightmare images of genital herpes on the internet (it seems only the worst case scenario images 

Plus, what people know about herpes is from sex ed and what google images shows them. Ironically, they end up being ignorant of the reality of STIs. With herpes in particular, you see horror images on google and is hard to come by real pictures. They see those pictures and think "OMG I NEVER WANT TO HAVE HERPES!!!!!!" It's ironic because after someone becomes infected with herpes, a lot start to think this is really not as bad as people think (at least from what I've noticed on forums, ppl I know who have it, etc.). It's not as scary having it as it is _thinking_ about contracting it I tend to think.

If you read my first post, which is a couple pages back (page 10, 3rd post from the top), I actually pointed out that having herpes on the face poses as more of a potential health hazard than genital herpes does (via spreading to the eye and possibly brain. This is very rare but still). And yes, I agree it's a stupid social norm that is imposed on us based on stupid assumptions.


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## RepairmanMan Man (Jan 21, 2012)

Sapphyreopal5 said:


> If you read my first post, which is a couple pages back (page 10, 3rd post from the top), I actually pointed out that having herpes on the face poses as more of a potential health hazard than genital herpes does (via spreading to the eye and possibly brain. This is very rare but still). And yes, I agree it's a stupid social norm that is imposed on us based on stupid assumptions.


Lol, that was a rhetorical question more than anything, but you are right. 

My grandmother had cold sores my entire life, but I didn't contract them until I kissed someone with an open cold sore. So I'm saying the virus is not that contagious, for one thing, and it's not that bad for another (although the primary outbreak hurts like nothing else). I did some research on cold sores while I was sick, and I really don't see the issue here about "herpes".


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## RepairmanMan Man (Jan 21, 2012)

Shahada said:


> The beginning of the social stigma around genital herpes and the general public hysteria about it in the US coincided roughly with pharmaceutical companies coming up with antiviral drugs to treat and prevent it. Draw your own conclusions.


...oh, big pharma. =D


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## changos (Nov 21, 2011)

Sure there is a lot of misinformation around
There are diff types of H
You can get them with no symptoms
You might get them from someone with no symptoms
Getting it is not precisely your "fault" or something to blame yourself about (really)
It is not as if you are a bad person

I'm actually more concerned about mental health.



Trinidad said:


> I would like to clarify a bit.
> Herpes _can_ spread even when not having a (visible) outbreak. The virus itself can 'come out of hiding' so to speak (sorry, English is my second language), but not show any symptoms. The chances of transmission _are_ much much lower in this case.


Exactly.


> Can Herpes Be Cured? There is no cure for herpes simplex. Once a person has the virus, it remains in the body. The virus lies inactive in the nerve cells until something triggers it to become active again.


Source: Types of herpes
Herpes simplex virus: Type 1 and Type 2 Symptoms, Diagnosis, Treatment


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## Sapphyreopal5 (Jun 11, 2012)

Shahada said:


> The beginning of the social stigma around genital herpes and the general public hysteria about it in the US coincided roughly with pharmaceutical companies coming up with antiviral drugs to treat and prevent it. Draw your own conclusions.


So true! Isn't that how a lot of general public hysteria over several other "diseases" and "disorders" start in the first place?


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## SassyPJs24 (Jan 27, 2010)

Sapphyreopal5 said:


> In fact, thanks to social media and general misunderstandings of the virus itself, herpes is really more of a social stigma than a threat to health if you ask me.


A few unlucky immuno-compromised people may have "herpes" in the way we all envision it (and I use to envision it this way as well before the diagnosis), but generally, it's NOTHING like you think. I have it, and the worst bout of it was no worse than a short flu. Since then I've had nothing. No bumps. I look normal and I feel normal. For the rest of my life, I'll feel fine, be normal, and I will never look like those horrible exaggerated pictures that pop up on Google images, as my body builds more antibodies and I continue living a healthy lifestyle. If I happen to have it during pregnancy someday, I would have to have a c-section, but I'm not too scared of that. I could go my whole life never telling anyone I dated that I have it, and probably never pass it on thanks to Valtrex (which reduces viral load) and the fact that I always use protection and would never have sex during an outbreak. 

Before stating absolutely that you wouldn't date someone with herpes, get tested. Because you might have it. It's seriously one in five people. I just happened to get tested during my first outbreak because I am health-conscious and paranoid, or I would have seriously never known I had it. I really wish that was the case, because then I could be innocent in dating and having sex without telling anyone I have it. Unfortunately my conscience won't let me do that, so now I have to tell every potential person that I have an invisible, inconsequential skin condition that comes with a stigma that seriously impacts my life. I only hope and pray that some of those people are as well-read about it as a few knowledgeable posters on this thread. But I think it's impacting my life positively, because it made me re-think my life and priorities and cut out a lot of options I didn't really need in the long run - aka dumb assholes who only wanted to have sex with me, instead of understanding, well-read/smart, caring individuals who are actually after a relationship with me. 

A guy who really liked me was really thrown by it and kept him with mixed emotions about me. Then he talked to his mom about me, and brought it up as something he was concerned with, and she told him that she has it. He told me, "If my dad had been a jerk like me, I would have never been born." God works in funny ways.


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## Sapphyreopal5 (Jun 11, 2012)

I know this thread is a little old now but I recently read a very ignorant statement that I find rather frustrating... in my college psychology book! It's a scary world when simplified statements are made in textbooks that are not only misleading but are potentially quite inaccurate. I read it and believe that others would find this intriguing (and scary at the same time).
Here is the paragraph word for word from my class's psychology book (I'll write some parts of the paragraph):



> There's a chance that someone you know has genital herpes and hasn't told you about it. It's not difficult to understand why: Genital herpes is an incurable sexually transmitted infection.... *Lesions recur approximately four times each year but can appear more often*. Cases of genital herpes have increased dramatically in recent years, for reasons that are as much psychological and behavioral as biological. *Although genital herpes is a biological disease, it spreads rapidly because people choose not to change their behavior by simply using a condom.*



I believe that anyone who has done _real_ research on herpes would realize those *bolded *statements are obviously incorrect and are _very_ misleading. 

1. _No one_ can tell you how often lesions will reoccur, and there is a *great* number of factors involved in whether an outbreak occurs again, including _stress_ (main focus for this textbook, as it is discussing how stress affects the immune system and triggers particular diseases), whether the person's immune system is compromised or not, which virus you have (and where the virus remains dormant), the person's lifestyle (diet, amount of exercise, how much stress is in that person's life, whether they easily get anxious or not), etc. 
2. As we have stated in this thread and has been stated elsewhere (in better educated sources that is), condoms will *not *prevent the spreading of herpes. It can be spread during times the virus is spreading (but little or even no symptoms are showing, including just a bump); herpes is spread via SKIN-TO-SKIN contact; and condoms only cover SOME lesions (if they are elsewhere) and not all lesions. 

It is a horrifying world knowing college level text books spread such misinformation trying to "compact" or simplify things to the point of spreading false information. It's horrifying knowing that this book has spread misinformation not just on the herpes virus but who knows what other books are spreading misinformation period and what the misinformation could be. I have to admit it takes A LOT for this to happen but I am absolutely disgusted with the misinformation in that book, especially that last bolded statement for obvious reasons.

Barlow, David H., and Vincent Mark Durand. "Physical Disorders and Healthy Psychology." _Abnormal Psychology: An Integrative Approach. 6th ed. Belmont, CA: Wadsworth, Cengage Learning, 2012. 312. Print._


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## Porridgepudge (Sep 27, 2012)

I'd give nonsexual dating a chance with someone who has herpes. Then if it developed and I felt sure I would be in a long term relationship with them, I would have sex with them.


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## RepairmanMan Man (Jan 21, 2012)

Sapphyreopal5 said:


> *Although genital herpes is a biological disease, it spreads rapidly because people choose not to change their behavior by simply using a condom.*


That sounds almost like a value-judgment...in a college psychology textbook?

Lol.


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## Sapphyreopal5 (Jun 11, 2012)

holyrockthrower said:


> That sounds almost like a value-judgment...in a college psychology textbook?
> 
> Lol.


I know. It's pretty crazy, don't you think?


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## RepairmanMan Man (Jan 21, 2012)

Sapphyreopal5 said:


> I know. It's pretty crazy, don't you think?


It's stupid.


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

holyrockthrower said:


> That sounds almost like a value-judgment...in a college psychology textbook?
> 
> Lol.


What doesn't make sense is that the textbook states that someone you know may have herpes. So therefore there are probably many who are reading the textbook with herpes. You would think then the authors would be sensitive to a portion of their readers, but then it goes onto almost shaming those with herpes. In addition, it gives misleading information about contracting the virus. It tells me that their aim isn't to protect a person from contracting herpes. Instead, it's just to get a person to wear a condom. Period. 

The textbook seems to be about shaming people who don't where condoms. It's not really about information on herpes, since you can still get herpes without a condom. It's almost as if they used herpes as a platform to say "Hey you people who refuse to change your behavior by not wearing condoms, get your act together."

Or, actually it sounds like this book was written in the 1950s. The original edition might have had "....people refusing to change their behavior and refuse to practice abstinence." Then, years later they realized that they may lose a large portion of their college audience with that idea so they thought they'd "modernize" it a bit. They updated the edition and substituted "refuse to wear a condom" for "refuse to practice abstinence". They didn't bother to look at anything else on the page that may have needed to be updated through out the years.


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## snail (Oct 13, 2008)

holyrockthrower said:


> You guys do realize the Herpes virus is the exact same thing as cold sores? There are two strains, Herpes simplex I and Herpes simplex II...you can contract both in either area, and they've got identical symptoms.
> 
> How come it's normal to have cold sores, but you'll be stigmatized for having "genital herpes"? If it's not a big deal _on your face_...why should it be a big deal anywhere else? This is one of those absurd standards that society imposes on us.


This is exactly my opinion. I have friends with genital herpes, and it seems obvious to those who have it that the social stigma is worse than the condition itself. Herpes of either kind seems pretty harmless and probably shouldn't be feared.



Shahada said:


> The beginning of the social stigma around genital herpes and the general public hysteria about it in the US coincided roughly with pharmaceutical companies coming up with antiviral drugs to treat and prevent it. Draw your own conclusions.


You're probably right.


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## Sapphyreopal5 (Jun 11, 2012)

pinkrasputin said:


> What doesn't make sense is that the textbook states that someone you know may have herpes. So therefore *there are probably many who are reading the textbook with herpes. You would think then the authors would be sensitive to a portion of their readers, but then it goes onto almost shaming those with herpes*. In addition, it gives misleading information about contracting the virus. It tells me that their aim isn't to protect a person from contracting herpes. Instead, it's just to get a person to wear a condom. Period.
> 
> The textbook seems to be about shaming people who don't where condoms. It's not really about information on herpes, since you can still get herpes without a condom. It's almost as if they used herpes as a platform to say "Hey you people who refuse to change your behavior by not wearing condoms, get your act together."
> 
> Or, actually it sounds like this book was written in the 1950s. The original edition might have had "....people refusing to change their behavior and refuse to practice abstinence." Then, years later they realized that they may lose a large portion of their college audience with that idea so they thought they'd "modernize" it a bit. They updated the edition and substituted "refuse to wear a condom" for "refuse to practice abstinence". They didn't bother to look at anything else on the page that may have needed to be updated through out the years.


It does sound like something that a textbook would've said in the '50s, doesn't it? I wish this textbook were that old. The worst part? This textbook is the newest edition and was published actually in 2012. I know I only gave a portion of what the textbook actually said (I quoted it _word for word_ however), but the only thing they got right were the statistics and the symptoms. I could not believe my eyes when I read that statement (and other misleading statements). I thought to myself "THIS is in a college level textbook... in 2012?!"

You made an excellent point (bolded statement). You know, it takes *a lot* for me to be upset or disgusted but reading that paragraph actually made me angry. Its implications are not only misleading (and downright wrong in that), but it is also highly accusatory and derogatory both to those with herpes and those who don't wear condoms during sex (which is _entirely_ of a personal choice and preference).

That sentence in the textbook in my opinion is a _*big*_ reason herpes is spreading: people are misinformed, and statements like that made by textbook publishers and other institutions of education are just fueling the fire. Honestly, I am upset enough to the point where I am actually in the works of writing a letter to the publisher about it. Of course, I'll be telling them how they are wrong on an education standpoint and on a personal one using some of the lovely sources I gave in my first post in this thread. :happy:

Weird, isn't it? The idea of a student educating a textbook publisher.... Shouldn't it be the other way around?


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## DistilledMacrocosm (Apr 11, 2012)

I have largely been hesitant to to discuss this so publicly, but @*SassyPJs24 gave an account which was so candid, I felt I might as well share. @TreeBob was accurate when he said he feels bad for anyone with herpes reading this thread.

About five years ago, I had a relationship with someone in college who gave me HSV-1. I knew he hooked up with people on Craigslist, but he was quite manipulative and I didn't have the self-esteem to walk away from a relationship until months later. Because of the prolonged contact, I have oral and genital outbreaks, even though the strain is called "oral herpes" (as addressed in previous posts, the virus can be transmitted to other areas but doesn't know what to do in such a case). 

I definitely agree contracting herpes is more of a mental upset than a physical condition. The social stigma is sometimes crippling, but again, more the fear of stigma. I was really comforted by the posts which remind people that it's not their fault. I was especially inspired by @holyrockthrower and @Shahada discussing the pharmaceutical companies, and how despite the stigma, it's just not a very big deal on the scheme of things. Sometimes I get angry at the guy who gave it to me, but then I remember he's a victim too.

I go hot and cold on discussing it with partners. I know I'm supposed to be responsible, telling people is the right thing to do, but I don't want to lose potential partners. I usually wait about three dates, but if I'm having an outbreak, I do tell the person. After disclosing my herpes status, I've had people limit sex with me outright (understandably) and others who made it clear they'd still have sex with me (fewer). This thread has made me firmly want to disclose my herpes to every sexual partner I have, and be more honest in the future.

Thanks to all the cool people on this thread.*


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## EmileeArsenic (Jun 8, 2012)

If I found out my SO had herpes... Ugh... Yeah, I'd probably leave. Hate to say it, but I would. I've enough issues as is without having to worry about STD's (in general, not just Herpes).

If I really, really, really loved him so much it would be just this side of impossible for me to leave, I might stay... but it would take a very, very special guy to make me give him that sort of commitment (because if I'm going to be sexually involved with someone with an STD, I'm going to be with him, and only him for the rest of my life.)

Might sound judgmental, but at the end of the day, I have to look out for me. If I don't, no one else will.


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## Yardiff Bey (Jun 5, 2011)

@pinkrasputin @Sapphyreopal5 - I am not surprised to read of that watered-down garbage in a book for college students.

The professors who write such things are not so ivory-tower that they don't realize a great deal of sex goes on in college. They are also not so ivory-tower that they don't realize where the bread-and-butter comes from.

Draw your own conclusions.


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

I've had a few friends come out to me since I've first written this thread, including a very close girlfriend of mine. I have gone through their dating process and supported them.

I just want to point out that there are quite a few people who have the virus because their partners were not honest with them. In no way would that make any of these people unworthy of love nor should they be made to feel like any less of a human. 

I talk to my girlfriend almost everyday about what she goes through. She is an amazing and gorgeous woman inside and out. It would really be a privilege for someone to be with her. She does not give her love out to just anybody and in no way is anyone "doing her a favor" by being with her. I support her all the time in this line of thinking. I'm so glad she is at a point where she is almost grateful for the virus, because it can filter out potential partners who were not in it for long haul. 

It can really suck after telling someone she really cares about that she has it. She then waits on pins and needles over how they will take the news. I sat and drank with her for 2 days while she had her ups and downs over wanting to know if her new relationship with someone would progress. Things like the media, (ironically many writers who have the virus) create stigma and jokes about having herpes. It's awful to be in that place.

The good news is that in this case, her person was still willing to move things forward. But it's sort of crazy. She has SO many people who want to date her. She is not hard up at all. If anything, I see it as a way she can find someone who really cares about her.


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## Yardiff Bey (Jun 5, 2011)

@pinkrasputin - she is tremendously lucky to have a friend like you.


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

Yardiff Bey said:


> @pinkrasputin - she is tremendously lucky to have a friend like you.


Thank you, but not really. I've hurt her, too. I've put my foot in my mouth many times before I knew she had it. She "came out" to me when I asked her the thread's title. I've learned quite a bit since then. 

I am lucky she is my friend and she is lucky to have me as a friend. We both knew that even before herpes ever came up. We're friends. Of course we can go to one another for acceptance. She has done the same for me over the years.


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## Nekomata (May 26, 2012)

If I were in love with them, I'd seriously consider it, otherwise probably not. Just having sex isn't worth getting some kind of disease over.


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## Biracial (Sep 8, 2010)

No. NO. Herpes is a deal breaker.


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## RepairmanMan Man (Jan 21, 2012)

DistilledMacrocosm said:


> *
> I go hot and cold on discussing it with partners. I know I'm supposed to be responsible, telling people is the right thing to do, but I don't want to lose potential partners. I usually wait about three dates, but if I'm having an outbreak, I do tell the person. After disclosing my herpes status, I've had people limit sex with me outright (understandably) and others who made it clear they'd still have sex with me (fewer). This thread has made me firmly want to disclose my herpes to every sexual partner I have, and be more honest in the future.*


That really stinks...you've contracted cold sores and been hit with the same virus in another place. You'll probably continue to get cold sores for life...and yet may never have another outbreak "down there". It'll also probably never be a serious health issue (unlike other STDs like HIV, chlamydia, gonorrhea, syphilis, etc.) For having a very normal, minor condition in an atypical part of the body, you're suddenly stigmatized. It's a pretty fucked up world.

On a more positive note, I've read that having HSV-I pretty much immunizes you from HSV-II (true genital herpes). So, it could always be worse, I guess. You should just tell everyone you have cold sores, lol. It's the truth.

Thanks for your honesty.


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

holyrockthrower said:


> It's a pretty fucked up world.


 Um, yeah. It's a world where there are women who refuse to date a man once he's told them he is not circumcised. 

Whatever. Everyone has their line. I can't judge another for that. I just know where I've been myopic in the past and I'm not proud of it. "But for the grace of God, go I." I'm certainly no blushing violet even though I act like it sometimes. Worse things have happened to better people.

I think it's funny how many people can kiss a person with the flu and it's socially acceptable. Over the course of history, things like the opera have glorified men and women who loved someone with a communicable disease like turberculosis _which causes death._ Oh it's so romantic to love another person who may simply sneeze on you and you could die. But loving a person who may give you something through sex? SHAME!!!!!!





> On a more positive note, I've read that having HSV-I pretty much immunizes you from HSV-II (true genital herpes). So, it could always be worse, I guess. You should just tell everyone you have cold sores, lol. It's the truth.


 That is cool. 

But I was just joking with a guy friend of mine who has herpes tonight. We were talking about how it is almost more glamorous to have other venereal diseases over herpes. We even included AIDS (not to take away from anyone suffering from other afflictions). Silly. Such a taboo to contract a disease through sex, but through... um... holding hand? ACCEPTABLE!!! Does anyone else see the irony in this?


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## Sonny (Oct 14, 2008)

pinkrasputin said:


> I think it's funny how many people can kiss a person with the flu and it's socially acceptable. Over the course of history, things like the opera have glorified men and women who loved someone with a communicable disease like turberculosis _which causes death._ Oh it's so romantic to love another person who may simply sneeze on you and you could die. But loving a person who may give you something through sex? SHAME!!!!!!
> 
> But I was just joking with a guy friend of mine who has herpes tonight. We were talking about how it is almost more glamorous to have other venereal diseases over herpes. We even included AIDS (not to take away from anyone suffering from other afflictions). Silly. Such a taboo to contract a disease through sex, but through... um... holding hand? ACCEPTABLE!!! Does anyone else see the irony in this?


Val's rendition of Doc Holliday was tasty, TB notwithstanding!

Friends who have HIV would very much disagree with you on the AIDS part, the amount of stigma faced is horrible. However on the rest the irony is a bitter pill - please do remember that sex is dirty though, you should feel shame at having it!


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

Sonny said:


> Val's rendition of Doc Holliday was tasty, TB notwithstanding!
> 
> Friends who have HIV would very much disagree with you on the AIDS part, the amount of stigma faced is horrible. However on the rest the irony is a bitter pill - please do remember that sex is dirty though, you should feel shame at having it!


i knew this was coming! (I made claims to that). Anyway, bring it on..

Yes, people who have sex are dirty creatures. What will society decide to do with us?


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## SassyPJs24 (Jan 27, 2010)

I'm in the process of deciding whether to tell someone I have it or break up with him. He keeps putting the moves on and I keep trying to dial it back. I think the conversation is unavoidable now. I'm trying to decide if I like him enough to risk the rejection - I'm almost hoping he says or does something that I can jump on and nitpick, some kind of dealbreaker on my end, and make it end rather than have to tell him. This is a really horrible stigma. The virus is fine, I haven't had any issues for six months. Hell, yeast infections, colds, and the flu are worse than this fucking minor skin issue that makes people cringe in fear. The worst part is that he would never get it anyway since I'm on Valtrex, not having outbreaks, and would make him wear a condom regardless. What a mindfuck.


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## Joseph (Jun 20, 2012)

I definitely, definitely wouldn't. I'm also getting to the age (or at least the social group) where a friend or two has had sex with someone with herpes. Makes me sad that I'll have to be more on guard in the future


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

SassyPJs24 said:


> I'm in the process of deciding whether to tell someone I have it or break up with him. He keeps putting the moves on and I keep trying to dial it back. I think the conversation is unavoidable now. I'm trying to decide if I like him enough to risk the rejection - I'm almost hoping he says or does something that I can jump on and nitpick, some kind of dealbreaker on my end, and make it end rather than have to tell him. This is a really horrible stigma. The virus is fine, I haven't had any issues for six months. Hell, yeast infections, colds, and the flu are worse than this fucking minor skin issue that makes people cringe in fear. The worst part is that he would never get it anyway since I'm on Valtrex, not having outbreaks, and would make him wear a condom regardless. What a mindfuck.


If I might suggest, before telling him, write down all your strengths and why you are an awesome girlfriend. Write down why _you know_ you are a real catch to anyone. Lock in your mind your top 5 strengths. Turn it around so that in your mind, you are still in the interviewing process where you are still not sure about him as a potential mate. I think you are right to have the mind set, "Is this guy even worth telling him about this?"

However, you will definitely know what you have in a partner if he takes off. What...was he in it for short term? Try to turn it over quickly if he leaves. That is his issue NOT YOURS. Please keep reminding yourself of this. 

In my experience and what I've learned from my non-infected friends who are in long term relationships with a partner with herpes- they believe the herpes virus gives a person _perspective_. They think because of all the social stigma their infected partner's face, and their chin-up attitude facing it everyday, they actually are more evolved as a person. According to my friends, their partners are the most incredible person they've _ever_ experienced have a relationship with. Now, I'm not sure that really is because of the virus, or because having the virus couldn't possibly subtract from the wonderful person they find their partners to truly be. But they are extremely happy with their partner and knew they were in love and pretty much committed before they even had sex with their partner.

And my friend's aren't like Jesus or anything. They are just regular people who have depth. The males are the type of people who would stick by their wife when her body changes and gains weight due to child birth. . 

You have to remember after you tell this partner- you are the awesome shit and there are many who probably desire you. If he can't take it, _you know_ you can find others who will.

I mean, holy shit, I can find a man who will still want to be with me in spite of my period or me having a child from a previous marriage. I have tons of baggage. There are people who move beyond. 

I think a lot of people who responded negatively to thread may have been clueless just like I was. Or they just haven't been _in love_ with a person who was infected with a virus. Plain and simple. If you ask me whether or not I wanted a daughter or a daughter with ADHD before I actually had her, I would have said "no". But now that I have her, my heart just grew. There is no way that I'd have her any other way than the way she is now. But before the experience, or meeting the person, we can put all types of requirements on our personal preferences.

But the truth is (as you already know), there are some partners who will never leave you in spite of what inflictions you have. In fact, there are people who _will love you *because* of your inflictions and your strength overcoming them._ Wait for that person. Wait for the person who will hold your hand and go through _anything_ with you. Wait for the person who believes that "You faced it on your own, now we face this together. It's a part of you, so it' s a part of me now." <<<< My ENFP best guy friend told me he said those exact words when his girlfriend first told him she had herpes. 

Be encouraged and I'm happy you know to hold out for a person who accepts you, all of you.


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## SassyPJs24 (Jan 27, 2010)

pinkrasputin said:


> I think a lot of people who responded negatively to thread may have been clueless just like I was. Or they just haven't been _in love_ with a person who was infected with a virus. Plain and simple. If you ask me whether or not I wanted a daughter or a daughter with ADHD before I actually had her, I would have said "no". But now that I have her, my heart just grew. There is no way that I'd have her any other way than the way she is now. But before the experience, or meeting the person, we can put all types of requirements on our personal preferences.


That was incredibly encouraging. Thank you so much. I am glad I have the attitude, "Is it even worth telling him about this?" But you just solidified why that attitude is so important. The right person isn't scared off by a minor skin issue. The right person isn't scared by any issue, actually, but especially one as minor as this. I am desired by a lot of people (haha that sounds so cocky) but I tend to keep myself at a distance for both emotional reasons and because of this... I just don't want to get to this point. But coming at it from the perspective of my strengths really does help.

What you just said about experience highlights a lot of the ignorance in the world in general. It is very easy to remain clueless - for the same reason I wouldn't take back any of the hardships in my life, I wouldn't take back this. 

There are people who move beyond... I dated a guy for a while after I first found out. We slept together many times and he never got it. I asked him a couple months ago why he was okay with it. He said, "Because I really liked you, and I wasn't going to let something like that keep me from you...that would be shallow." I guess that is something I can take from that relationship and run with.

Thank you for your wisdom @_pinkrasputin_. You really do sound like an awesome friend. 

I'm going to tell him soon, and I'll let you know what happens.


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## chip (Oct 12, 2011)

I thought I had herpes for over five years, telling every guy I liked that I had it, even before meeting them and getting more serious into it, except for one guy and we were mostly WoW buddies. When I told him, he dumped me, complaining he'd be a virgin forever, luls, loser. Anyway, I was misdiagnosed. This nurse told me it "looked" like I had herpes and four years later, I finally had a blood test done for it. The results were negative. I had a second test to make sure. Negative again. Turns out, I thought I had it and genital warts for years because of a guy I was in a relationship with for three years, who cheated all the time. He had a bad reputation of having stds and I just didn't care- I thought I was in love and stayed, unprotected sex and all. Honestly, back then- I would have dated anyone who had herpes or an std, because I was stupid and thought I had real love. I became pickier, though. If my fiancee had herpes, I would stay with him because I am deeply and utterly in love. If I wasn't in love, I'm not sure. We would have to be extremely careful I suppose but chances are, I would be more hopeful for falling in love and it would probably be overlooked. I guess you could say I am stupid, but the difference is- I'm with a good man for once in my life.


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

chip said:


> I thought I had herpes for over five years, telling every guy I liked that I had it, even before meeting them and getting more serious into it, except for one guy and we were mostly WoW buddies. When I told him, he dumped me, complaining he'd be a virgin forever, luls, loser. Anyway, I was misdiagnosed. This nurse told me it "looked" like I had herpes and four years later, I finally had a blood test done for it. The results were negative. I had a second test to make sure. Negative again. Turns out, I thought I had it and genital warts for years because of a guy I was in a relationship with for three years, who cheated all the time. He had a bad reputation of having stds and I just didn't care- I thought I was in love and stayed, unprotected sex and all. Honestly, back then- I would have dated anyone who had herpes or an std, because I was stupid and thought I had real love. I became pickier, though. If my fiancee had herpes, I would stay with him because I am deeply and utterly in love. If I wasn't in love, I'm not sure. We would have to be extremely careful I suppose but chances are, I would be more hopeful for falling in love and it would probably be overlooked. I guess you could say I am stupid, but the difference is- I'm with a good man for once in my life.


I do not think you're stupid at all. I think judging a man based on how he treats you is what a lot of women could afford to do.

My boyfriend and I have already discussed diseases and what not. We will stay with each other inspite of any sickness that sprouts up afterwards. We are in it for the long haul. I had a yeast infection a month ago and he got thrush in his mouth (lol). We didn't know at the time what the hell was going on with us, but it got us to talking honestly. Fuck... a person is a person. I would never chuck him out because of something health related and I know for a fact he would never toss me aside because of some health condition. Where is the love in that?

His dick is golden and so is my pussy. We both did a little Monostat, ate some yogurt, and got over it. I can't imagine both of us having to take Valtrex would be any different.


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## bsrk1 (Jul 18, 2012)

no, i never expect a long term relationship- although if it happens, it happens. i live one day at a time... but mainly because i really like the single life. sorry i might be an ass hole.


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## Particulate (Sep 21, 2012)

pinkrasputin said:


> Would you date someone with herpes? I have 3 friends now who do not have herpes but are or have been in a long term relationship with someone who has herpes. One of my friends just found the man of her dreams, has moved in with him, and told me that he has herpes. Apparently, it's common. It just hasn't been common in my world.
> 
> So folks, what are your views?
> 
> ...



So long as they're up front about it and it's in check I wouldn't have an issue. My primary concerns would be contracting it myself though and then potentially spreading it because I have a habit of sleeping around... a lot... with a wide variety of people. But if, through some bizarre chance, I found myself hopelessly attracted to a single partner and them to me I guess I wouldn't have much issue with it at all.


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## ujellyfish (Apr 15, 2011)

pinkrasputin said:


> In my experience and what I've learned from my non-infected friends who are in long term relationships with a partner with herpes- they believe the herpes virus gives a person _perspective_. They think because of all the social stigma their infected partner's face, and their chin-up attitude facing it everyday, they actually are more evolved as a person. According to my friends, their partners are the most incredible person they've _ever_ experienced have a relationship with. Now, I'm not sure that really is because of the virus, or because having the virus couldn't possibly subtract from the wonderful person they find their partners to truly be. But they are extremely happy with their partner and knew they were in love and pretty much committed before they even had sex with their partner.


While I appreciate your flattery, this kind of thinking is somewhat also part of the needless problem, reversed. I got it because my boyfriend was misdiagnosed as not having it and it was in truth a very hard experience to learn that I had it... but that was because of the confusion surrounding it. Since he'd said he didn't have any STDs I assumed he was lying rather than misinformed. He even tests negative for it still, making the issue all the more complicated.
But the disease itself isn't a big deal at all, and if he'd known he had had it and told me, it would have been a non-issue if I did still get it.
Herpes doesn't change a person in any good or bad way. Just like it doesn't make me a slut, it doesn't make me a bigger person or anything like that. It honestly wasn't even as bad altogether as being on my period and it hasn't even come back since the first occurrence without having to take pills for it. It's such a fucking non-issue that it made me mad that people make such a huge deal out of it even before I had it- just because it's so retarded of everyone! 
My doctor told me that the two hardest things to tell people are that they have cancer and that they have herpes. 
REALLY? FUCKING CANCER. CANCER, WHICH WILL OFTEN TIMES KILL YOU IS CONSIDERED JUST AS HARD TO TAKE AS HAVING HERPES!?
-calms down-

For me it's a literal non-issue because all the people I would want to date don't have the processing power of a fruit fly and even without having ever had sex know that herpes only looks like what it does in the sex-ed books in high school if you also have terminal stages of AIDS... and also multiple other STDs as well. Plus they would know that when you're both aware of the person's positive status you have to literally be trying to get it.

As a side note, if high school sex education textbooks replaced all of those scare-images with what herpes actually looked like and talked about what it actually would look or feel like on you my boyfriend would probably have realized that his doctors were retarded for insisting he didn't have it without even taking a blood test. But instead they have to give us as little useful information about sex as possible. Because you know, if we teach teenagers about safe sex they're totally just going to go out and have a bunch of sex as a result.... riiiight. Just about as rich as the "pro-life"rs who are against birth control.....

Anyway my point here is that herpes isn't really something you face every day. It's something you probably face directly maybe 3, 4 times maximum in your entire life (unless you're very unlucky or have other, rarer and more easily prevented STDs) and maybe a handful more times if you date a lot of fucking idiots.

If you want proof of how easy it is to have sex with someone who has herpes and still not contract the disease my parents have been married for over 20 years, had me, and my mom has it and my dad still doesn't.



granted this is all easy for me to say since I have it but I thought all of this long before I did.... you know why? Because I'm not brain dead. :tongue:


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## chip (Oct 12, 2011)

pinkrasputin said:


> I do not think you're stupid at all. I think judging a man based on how he treats you is what a lot of women could afford to do.
> 
> My boyfriend and I have already discussed diseases and what not. We will stay with each other inspite of any sickness that sprouts up afterwards. We are in it for the long haul. I had a yeast infection a month ago and he got thrush in his mouth (lol). We didn't know at the time what the hell was going on with us, but it got us to talking honestly. Fuck... a person is a person. I would never chuck him out because of something health related and I know for a fact he would never toss me aside because of some health condition. Where is the love in that?
> 
> His dick is golden and so is my pussy. We both did a little Monostat, ate some yogurt, and got over it. I can't imagine both of us having to take Valtrex would be any different.


LOOOL. Your honesty is so funny. Thank you for that  Yeast infections are fucking lame. I've never had one to burn, though. Fortunately. I had no idea people can get thrush from that. Weird. What were his symptoms?


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