# INTJ or ISTJ?



## Champagne Wishes (Aug 1, 2013)

I've been researching all the types and functions affiliated. Though there is an outside chance I could actually be an E instead of an I, I have narrowed the possibilities to these two. 

I'm having a hard time figuring out if I use Si or Se and Ni or Ne from the descriptions I've read, since it seems to me I use both in each from my perspective. I believe that I am pretty strong in my use of Te and it's quite clear to me and others I know that I have underdeveloped Fi. 

Any help in figuring this out would be appreciated.


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## Ballast (Jun 17, 2013)

Hmm...let's have some examples.

What are some things you think might make you more intuitive (or Ni) and what are some things you think make you more of a sensor (or Si)?


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## Champagne Wishes (Aug 1, 2013)

Ballast said:


> Hmm...let's have some examples.
> 
> What are some things you think might make you more intuitive (or Ni) and what are some things you think make you more of a sensor (or Si)?


The Si indicator would be that I do believe there is a right way to do everything and I am a creature of habit in doing things the way I've always known or learned them. An example would be the hospital corners when I make my bed. My dad taught me to do it that way when I was a kid and I've never deviated away from it. If I see someone make a bed the "wrong" way, fold a towel the "wrong" way, etc., it bothers me. I've also read that Si users have a high sensitivity to discomfort and have a hard time not being vocal about it- this has also been the case since my youth. Examples are my refusal to wear socks or pants as a child because I couldn't stop being conscious of the seams-- I've gotten over this quirk but I still have a major concern over whether I will be uncomfortable or not in a social setting or staying in an unfamiliar place.

Ni indicator: I am in my head a lot. Sometimes I will be detached at parties and out with others because I start thinking about something. I think about the future and hypothetical scenarios a lot. Examples are my friends asking me to please be in the moment and the several times as a child I got in trouble in class for "daydreaming"


Also, I've taken the test several times and gotten INTJ or ENTJ most times and ISTJ no times. However, I don't fully trust those tests as a complete and accurate method, so I decided to research the functions.


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## frayonka (Jan 3, 2013)

Si-Ne.


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## Champagne Wishes (Aug 1, 2013)

Not sure if this will help indicate type or function, but I figure it can't hurt to share it. I took a career aptitude test a couple months ago and these were my results: 

Only Bachelors required
Statisticians
Operations Research Analysts
Actuaries
Budget Analysts
Software Developers, Systems Software
Computer Programmers
Software Developers, Applications
Geographers
Clinical Data Managers
Atmospheric and Space Scientists

Masters or higher required
Mathematicians
Sociologists
Statisticians
Biostatisticians
Operations Research Analysts
Actuaries
Astronomers
Computer and Information Research Scientists
Physicists
Industrial-Organizational Psychologists

I'll fill out a questionnaire and share when I have the spare time.


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## Fern (Sep 2, 2012)

Which hits home with you more?

http://personalitycafe.com/intj-articles/76896-recognizing-inferior-function-intj.html

http://personalitycafe.com/istj-articles/78130-recognizing-inferior-function-istj.html


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## Champagne Wishes (Aug 1, 2013)

Fern said:


> Which hits home with you more?
> 
> http://personalitycafe.com/intj-articles/76896-recognizing-inferior-function-intj.html
> 
> http://personalitycafe.com/istj-articles/78130-recognizing-inferior-function-istj.html



Thanks for this info @Fern. It is very interesting. Unfortunately, I can relate to aspects of both, so I'm still a bit confused as to what functions I seem to be using. I will go back over them a couple more times though and create a compare/contrast list to try and get more of a read from it when I get a chance.


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## Champagne Wishes (Aug 1, 2013)

Something I read about recently regarding ISTJ vs INTJ was that they remember things very differently because they take in info and experiences differently. Any thoughts on this?

As far as my memory goes, I have a lot of memories that are more or less snapshots. In some cases I can remember the whole situation of a place I went with my family, etc. But more often than not, I have vague snapshots, and I pick up context from those snapshots or series of snapshots. Examples:

-Memory from when I was 2 of standing in the parking lot of my ballet school with my mom (yes I was that young in ballet). She was wearing one of those big poofy 80's coats. She was upset because she had locked her keys in the car. My dad pulls up and uses a hanger to unlock the door.
- This memory flashes up in my mind's eye a lot: walking into a room full of balloons with a cake in the middle shaped like a lamb. My parents tell me this was my third birthday. 
- Another one that flashes up for me a lot from when I was 6- seeing the dance number at the end of Dirty Dancing. I don't think I saw the first part of it. Just the end. I have the visual of Patrick Swayze dancing down the aisle and I was sitting in my friend's living room on the floor.

Also, if I hear something I've heard before again, I can flash back to exactly what I was looking at the last time I heard it. This happens to me when I'm listening to audio books while I'm driving down the road. A lot of times if a memorable statement is made the second time I'm listening to an audio book, the image of where I was on the road the last time I heard it will flash up in my mind. I thought this happened to everyone but my husband (believed to be an ENFJ) has told me it never happens to him.

One last thing. I'm incredibly sentimental about tastes and smells- I'm sure a lot of people are as well, but I would say from my observations that I am more so than others.


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## Shale (Jan 17, 2012)

In my experience and observation the primary difference is that the ISTJ can naturally adapt and conform to society as long as the system it is providing is fair and just, adhering to standards. An INTJ doesn't really care about this so much (but doesn't have a choice otherwise, so in this position they would keep to themselves.) It's always possible that you are both, and kudos to you if you are! I think it's better to have close to an equal balance than to have an extreme.


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## Champagne Wishes (Aug 1, 2013)

Shale said:


> In my experience and observation the primary difference is that the ISTJ can naturally adapt and conform to society as long as the system it is providing is fair and just, adhering to standards. An INTJ doesn't really care about this so much (but doesn't have a choice otherwise, so in this position they would keep to themselves.) It's always possible that you are both, and kudos to you if you are! I think it's better to have close to an equal balance than to have an extreme.


How could someone possibly be both ISTJ and INTJ, if the functions are so different?


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## Shale (Jan 17, 2012)

Champagne Wishes said:


> How could someone possibly be both ISTJ and INTJ, if the functions are so different?


I think quite honestly, the balancing act comes with age. Coping mechanisms become habit, or learning to respond differently than what is natural and seeing the positive result can become habit. Habits become part of your personality and it becomes difficult to differentiate between natural responses and learned responses. If we are shaped by our environment, we are constantly learning and molding to it (which could be negative or positive.) 

I do think MBTI is fluid, but obviously that is my opinion. Being among the oldest group in the forum, I can tell you how different cornerstones in your life create windows of learning opportunity ... often times forced opportunity that don't always exist in your younger years. For a long time you might be taught to be a good student, work, pay your bills on time and play with your friends. Hypothetically later on you may become married, maybe have to deal with a blended household, learning to be a responsible parent, forcing yourself to provide a decent childhood for your kids, dealing with the question of what to do with aging parents, etc. 

So regardless if something is a natural response or a learned response: it doesn't matter. It's still you.


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## Afterburner (Jan 8, 2013)

> *Si (Introverted Sensing):
> 
> Reliability: Si types are dependable, reliable and trustworthy. They like to belong to solid organizations that have reasonable in their ambitions and loyal to their employees. They are thorough and conscientious in fulfilling their responsibilities.
> 
> ...



From: http://personalitycafe.com/cognitive-functions/113003-ni-vs-si-what-hell-difference.html


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## Champagne Wishes (Aug 1, 2013)

Thanks for all this info @Afterburner. I'll have to process this and compare them with one another.

Where do you think the info I shared regarding my memory fits in with this, if at all? And also, how could it differ from what your personal experience is with memories, seeing as how you yourself are an INTJ?


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## Afterburner (Jan 8, 2013)

If sensory memorization comes naturally and simply to you, that sounds like Si dominance to me, though my knowledge on the functions is limited. 

I can remember things vividly based on sights, sounds and smells, but only limitedly. One thing I can do very naturally is memorize by connecting ideas to one another. So when one thought comes up, and one or more extend from it or "appear" after it, I make a mental bridge of sorts that connects them. I also noticed that I sometimes associate certain places or objects with any ideas I was running through my head while I saw or was near them. 

What's particularly annoying is that sometimes when I have a sudden idea and mentally *gasp*, I get almost euphoric for a few seconds and then I forget what it was shortly after. Not sure if that's Ni or an individual thing.

So to take a shot...
Si: memories evoked through a relation of events/objects/ideas/people with stored sensory experiences
Ni: memories evoked through a relation of events/objects/ideas/people with stored abstractions and mental images

Doubtful it's accurate, so take it with a grain of salt.

Also, I'm not 100% sure I'm an INTJ. I know I'm not an INFJ; Fe is not at all in my top two functions. INTP is a possibility, since Ti and Ne seem to resonate with me well at times. I'm still young and maturing though so I don't expect to fit into any mold perfectly.


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## Champagne Wishes (Aug 1, 2013)

Afterburner said:


> From: http://personalitycafe.com/cognitive-functions/113003-ni-vs-si-what-hell-difference.html


After reading through this, I definitely relate MUCH more to Ni than to Si. My husband read it through and also said that Ni sounded spot on for me and Si sounded nothing like me.

So I may have my answer, but I'm not one to come to a conclusion unless I have more solid evidence so I'm still good with pushing this around a bit. I'll fill out a questionnaire and share shortly for anyone who wants to analyze.


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## Champagne Wishes (Aug 1, 2013)

Afterburner said:


> What's particularly annoying is that sometimes when I have a sudden idea and mentally *gasp*, I get almost euphoric for a few seconds and then I forget what it was shortly after. Not sure if that's Ni or an individual thing.


Ha, I definitely do that too.


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## register (Aug 29, 2013)

Champagne Wishes said:


> The Si indicator would be that I do believe there is a right way to do everything and I am a creature of habit in doing things the way I've always known or learned them. An example would be the hospital corners when I make my bed. My dad taught me to do it that way when I was a kid and I've never deviated away from it. If I see someone make a bed the "wrong" way, fold a towel the "wrong" way, etc., it bothers me. I've also read that Si users have a high sensitivity to discomfort and have a hard time not being vocal about it- this has also been the case since my youth. Examples are my refusal to wear socks or pants as a child because I couldn't stop being conscious of the seams-- I've gotten over this quirk but I still have a major concern over whether I will be uncomfortable or not in a social setting or staying in an unfamiliar place.
> 
> Ni indicator: I am in my head a lot. Sometimes I will be detached at parties and out with others because I start thinking about something. I think about the future and hypothetical scenarios a lot. Examples are my friends asking me to please be in the moment and the several times as a child I got in trouble in class for "daydreaming"
> 
> ...


It is extremely common for INTJs to display hypersensitivity to sensory stimuli-due to inferior Se. You avi also speaks of Se, thus I would suggest INTJ. Do you like solving context free problems or do desire to understand the specific details of the problem?


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## Champagne Wishes (Aug 1, 2013)

register said:


> It is extremely common for INTJs to display hypersensitivity to sensory stimuli-due to inferior Se. You avi also speaks of Se, thus I would suggest INTJ. Do you like solving context free problems or do desire to understand the specific details of the problem?


I guess it would depend on the complexity of the problem but more often than not I would like some context.


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## Ballast (Jun 17, 2013)

Champagne Wishes said:


> Where do you think the info I shared regarding my memory fits in with this, if at all? And also, how could it differ from what your personal experience is with memories, seeing as how you yourself are an INTJ?


Hmm...I have a couple memory scenes like that too, especially early childhood ones. But they tend to be hazier, and not necessarily crystal and vivid, as if I were there again. Also, I do this thing where I'll connect two things in my mind. Say that I'm driving past a stretch of highway and thinking hard about something. When I drive by that highway again, I'll remember what it was I was thinking about last time. I use that technique to find my car in a parking lot sometimes: what was I talking about or discussing at the time I had parked it? Helps me remember where it is. 

Another thing that I've noticed with a few Si doms I know is that they like to rehash things they already know, like discussing old memories a lot. Like it provides some point of continuity and continuously reliving those moments keeps them alive and relevant. I dwell on my past a lot, but I tend to do so more conceptually. 

Overall, I'd say my memory is below average. I can see a person 20 times and still not recognize them fully when I see them again. (That's not only a lack of Si, but low Se in general. I just don't fucking pay attention and I don't retain facts about my environment like that.)


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## Champagne Wishes (Aug 1, 2013)

Ballast said:


> Hmm...I have a couple memory scenes like that too, especially early childhood ones. But they tend to be hazier, and not necessarily crystal and vivid, as if I were there again. Also, I do this thing where I'll connect two things in my mind. Say that I'm driving past a stretch of highway and thinking hard about something. When I drive by that highway again, I'll remember what it was I was thinking about last time. I use that technique to find my car in a parking lot sometimes: what was I talking about or discussing at the time I had parked it? Helps me remember where it is.
> 
> Another thing that I've noticed with a few Si doms I know is that they like to rehash things they already know, like discussing old memories a lot. Like it provides some point of continuity and continuously reliving those moments keeps them alive and relevant. I dwell on my past a lot, but I tend to do so more conceptually.
> 
> Overall, I'd say my memory is below average. I can see a person 20 times and still not recognize them fully when I see them again. (That's not only a lack of Si, but low Se in general. I just don't fucking pay attention and I don't retain facts about my environment like that.)


I also use the "what was I thinking about/discussing when I parked the car?" thing to find my car in parking lots. I do discuss old memories, but mainly just one time and most of it is exclusively to my husband who himself is curious about my childhood. Sometimes I repeat myself-- that's usually because I forget I told my husband the story. In fact, I don't think I ever rehashed those memories until I got married and had a new family member around who wasn't privy to all the old family stories. My dad actually rehashes a ton, to the point of, "Yeah Dad, I remember. I was there and this is the 20th time you've talked about it." Good to finally be able to put some reason behind that kind of rehashing. I'd say I definitely do rehash every now and then, but not a lot.


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