# First Sexual Crush On A Celebrity or Fictional Character



## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

Though I don't think any of the above are particularly uninhibited unless maybe the ones associated with forces of nature or lust. There is also the succubus and the incubus. 

Though usually people are vulnerable to them through something they resist--like the fear of some of these creatures (like the sirens) is that they have something you want, and so you can be tricked by them. Sort of like a gift horse (Trojan Horse).

The devil is often associated with trickery, yet for some reason a lot of the other male tricksters you described are not as frightening, but there are some threatening undertones to the archetype.

Here's an interesting article (I haven't finished it yet--it's pretty late and I will read over it tomorrow since it's an interesting topic): 









The Trickster Archetype in Pop Culture, Part Three: Tricky Ladies


I spent my 2017 academic year picking a fight with Joseph Campbell and his blithe assumption that The Hero can only ever be a dude. Well, as my focus shifts from Heroes to Tricksters, the same issu…




theafictionado.wordpress.com


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## DOGSOUP (Jan 29, 2016)

Squirt said:


> I wouldn't say no... and I'm straight. 😆 Though, if I was a lesbian I'd be all about Gabriella.


Yeah I thought it might be more of a universal experience lol.


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## Squirt (Jun 2, 2017)

WickerDeer said:


> Though I don't think any of the above are particularly uninhibited unless maybe the ones associated with forces of nature or lust. There is also the succubus and the incubus.
> 
> Though usually people are vulnerable to them through something they resist--like the fear of some of these creatures (like the sirens) is that they have something you want, and so you can be tricked by them. Sort of like a gift horse (Trojan Horse).
> 
> ...


That is a long article but I will give it a read, too! In mythology and folklore, there are definitely Trickster goddesses and the like... but that is why it is so curious it is not used for female characters in modern storytelling as often as male (that I have run across). Of course, it could be that there are more diverse roles for male characters in general...

To define it more clearly, “trickster” isn’t just deceptive - but seeks to cause disorder for little reason other than amusement (even if malicious). So, a character that is only using deception to achieve a specific goal or due to a strong attachment doesn’t qualify purely as a Trickster. A character might start out as a Trickster, develop (or reveal) a value or commitment, and then experience a “downfall” because of it. That seems common.

A more classic example (also being a devil) is Mephisto in “Faust.”

Edit: I thought of one! Dot on “Animaniacs”:


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## UniversalIndividual (Nov 16, 2020)

WickerDeer said:


> I feel like craftiness and trickery has long been attributed to femininity? So perhaps it's harder to really see the same as with male characters?


Women were viewed as sinful tricksters that men fall for because of religious patriarchy that's based on misogyny. Eve ate forbidden fruit from the tree of knowledge, which led towards sin according to The Bible. Hence, women have been portrayed to trick men to their doom with their sex appeal and conventional intelligence in entertainment. Sexist double standards make it hard for people to make money from entertainment that's not based on gender roles. Buffy Summers and Lara Croft are female characters that challenged those gender roles in entertainment to some extent. Making women be very muscular, bald, have hairy legs, have hairy armpits, have high I.Q.s, and other things are harder to find in entertainment because of sexist double standards that make women inferior intellectually, physically, and emotionally. That was a hard pill of reality that I swallowed when I was a writer when I was a child. Which is why you get all of these predictable female characters with boobs, makeup, a lack of muscular appearance, cleavage, pretty clothes, lower I.Q.s., and other things on average in entertainment, books, and music. Which is why I liked the Buffy Summers and Lara Croft characters to some extent because I felt like I was watching and hearing female characters who aren't hypersexualised doormats to gender roles in entertainment. Ellen Ripley from the "Alien" film is another female character I liked because she was strong, smart, resilient, and professional rather than being a spinelessly hypersexualised idiot that weakminded men can jerk off to because they have male insecurities about strong females that can take care of themselves even though hypersexualised girls make more money in the entertainment industry, book industry, and music industry to my misfortune.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

Squirt said:


> That is a long article but I will give it a read, too! In mythology and folklore, there are definitely Trickster goddesses and the like... but that is why it is so curious it is not used for female characters in modern storytelling as often as male (that I have run across). Of course, it could be that there are more diverse roles for male characters in general...
> 
> To define it more clearly, “trickster” isn’t just deceptive - but seeks to cause disorder for little reason other than amusement (even if malicious). So, a character that is only using deception to achieve a specific goal or due to a strong attachment doesn’t qualify purely as a Trickster. A character might start out as a Trickster, develop (or reveal) a value or commitment, and then experience a “downfall” because of it. That seems common.
> 
> ...


Yeah it is curious (thanks for clarifying what trickster is and isn't too). It sort of reminds me of the disparity between female and male comedians? How it just seems like there are less female comedians in pop culture and they are in more specific roles?

I wondered about music--like I thought about Spice Girls and if anyone in there would have been like a trickster, but I don't remember all of them.

Or then I thought of TLC which had one member representing crazy, one as sexy, and one as cool--that maybe Left Eye's character was sort of like the trickster archetype.






I can't tell if she would really be associated with the trickster archetype, but I noticed she also had a strict upbringing, she described (with her dad being like a drill Sargeant) so it kind of reminded me of how the mask and Fred worked with the inhibited people.

But I can't really think of them--I'll have to keep my eyes open now though!


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## Squirt (Jun 2, 2017)

@WickerDeer

Good article. The crux is defining trickster in different ways - saying that women, due their social position, have their own brand of tricksy. That works for me in the sense that a well-thought character wouldn’t be a pure archetype. The examples were good. I may consider widening the scope, haha.

However, maybe due to social and cultural attitudes, male characters can more closely approximate the definition I gave earlier, and be accepted. Her footnote at the end about the shapeshifting and the androgenous quality of the archetype from folklore is the most telling on this point. A woman who successfully uses feminine traits to disrupt and con people is compelling because she is subverting her expected role and taking a position of unexpected power, to the chagrin of her enemies. But a man who is a trickster _also _uses femininity to subvert and con people (Loki is mentioned, and I think of Bugs Bunny frequently cross-dressing to escape Yosemite Sam or Elmer Fudd, too, among other examples), yet his power to do so is not in question, viewed as quirky and not threatening to upend gender roles but still causes surprises, adding to this narrative that the male trickster is more free than the female. That contrast is informative, as a woman, for one reason I might have been attracted to it (to stay vaguely on topic).

The “pure” Trickster never seems like they are in real danger, or affected by consequences. For the male characters, you never really worry about it. Even if they get caught, they don’t seem to mind, completely confident they will squirm their way out of it and even if they don’t, no big deal.

I’m pretty motivated to write a female equivalent now.


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## UniversalIndividual (Nov 16, 2020)

WickerDeer said:


> I'm not sure what archetype he would be--maybe rogue, but also perhaps just hero. Though I would say his strength is maybe instinct? Instinct or just gut reactions? He just sort of keeps going no matter how beat up he gets, as he is motivated by protecting others most of the time. So he's a pretty emotional character, and the art of Texiera is also very emotional--it could have been what attracted me in the first place.
> 
> Maybe if there is an archetype of a wild man that would fit well? Someone who is actually a lot closer to nature (including human nature--such as raw emotion)? He also typically always gets back up again, due to having healing powers, so he's constantly getting toppled and then somehow healing again. He also reminds me a little of the working class--like I'd guess Wolverine would be closer to a footsoldier or a laborer--so that also might have been one reason I identified with him--unlike Cyclops or Archangel or Beast. They all act a lot more middle class and above whereas Wolverine has absolutely no prestige or privilege from family as he doesn't even know who his parents are or where he came from.


Wolverine is considered an antihero and a superhero who uses his instincts, gut reactions, strength, and other things. He is a superhero and an antihero because his mutation makes him violent like an irrational animal sometimes even though his human side has good intentions at times. He doesn't want to be the bad guy per se, but his mutation makes him do things that are out of his control sometimes. He's kind of a self-destructive bully because of the toxic environment he grew up in.

Wolverine is quite knowledgeable from living so long, experienced, and capable of owning a business and making himself become rich with sophisticated tastes including a powerful social status if he tried hard enough to control his mutation's wild side. He would rather smoke, drink alcohol, be with women, and defeat bad guys even if he has the capacity to have a higher social status.



WickerDeer said:


> Maybe I just like the tortured comic book characters? I want to see them finally be happy?


As a writer, I'm imagining Wolverine feeling uncomfortable if he heard you say that you like Wolverine being tortured at first just so he can be happy in the end when Wolverine didn't ask to be born in a world filled with so much sadness, destruction, death, war, and his biological father murdering Wolverine's "father".


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## UniversalIndividual (Nov 16, 2020)

WickerDeer said:


> Yeah it is curious (thanks for clarifying what trickster is and isn't too). It sort of reminds me of the disparity between female and male comedians? How it just seems like there are less female comedians in pop culture and they are in more specific roles?
> 
> I wondered about music--like I thought about Spice Girls and if anyone in there would have been like a trickster, but I don't remember all of them.


Yeah, the comedy industry is always male-dominated for now. I would say that there are less comedians from the younger generations in general than there are from older generations because of the rise of feminazis, snowflakes, political correctness, and cancel culture.

Musically, it's been hard for females to fight against the trickster archetype because females are usually associated with drama in songs while males are usually associated with money, careers, driving their own vehicles, and power in songs.


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## Rift (Mar 12, 2012)

WickerDeer said:


> Maybe I just like the tortured comic book characters? I want to see them finally be happy?


I'm guessing about half of us do. Still think Logan is the archetype for dad's best friend.. first crush on an adult.. that doesn't quite have his shit together so it seems like it's a closer match than it actually is. Psylock definitely would have been better than Jean. Without the Phoenix arc she was more damsel in distress. tiresome.

I personally was more for Nightcrawler... wounded introvert, toss in bishop and callisto and I might had been set.


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## Rift (Mar 12, 2012)

UniversalIndividual said:


> Eve


lilith/lilitu

inari

majority of nymphs and in turn, water spirits the world over... nearly any ghost tale related to mourning involves a female that entraps or lures someone away. wisps, although frequently associated with children are also associated with winged fairies which are nearly always considered female, changelings, the sphinx.. and so on. 

not just sinful but wise women that use guile and wit to compensate for a lack of physical strength... many plots towards this.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

UniversalIndividual said:


> Wolverine is considered an antihero and a superhero who uses his instincts, gut reactions, strength, and other things. He is a superhero and an antihero because his mutation makes him violent like an irrational animal sometimes even though his human side has good intentions at times. He doesn't want to be the bad guy per se, but his mutation makes him do things that are out of his control sometimes. He's kind of a self-destructive bully because of the toxic environment he grew up in.
> 
> Wolverine is quite knowledgeable from living so long, experienced, and capable of owning a business and making himself become rich with sophisticated tastes including a powerful social status if he tried hard enough to control his mutation's wild side. He would rather smoke, drink alcohol, be with women, and defeat bad guys even if he has the capacity to have a higher social status.
> 
> ...


When I read the comics, I'd never heard of wolverine's mutation causing him to act irrational or angry etc.

His mutation is basically heightened senses as well as healing (which is why he can drink and smoke so much and get into so many fights without suffering long-term physical consequences) and bones like claws.

He later lost his memory as he was being experimented on by the military, which is when they successfully coated his skeleton with adamantium. However he seemed to suffer some brain damage from it or something, and when he awoke he wasn't really aware of who he was. 

Because of his superhuman healing, he probably doesn't age normally, which could mean that he is much older than he looks--perhaps centuries old.

At least this was the storyline in the 90s. I am sure that there have been changes since then as that usually happens with comic characters.

I do not think Wolverine would want to be rich etc. He never showed much of an interest in material things. 

As far as wolverine hearing me say that I might have some history of being attracted to tortured characters? I don't think he'd give two shits about it as he seemed to me to be pretty single-minded about goals and what is valuable to him. He seemed like the kind of character who generally didn't go out of his way to bother people or victimize innocent people. I do think he operated more in gut instinct and generally did not trust people. I'm pretty sure he would have just seen me as a benign bystander and not a threat and wouldn't concern himself with my romantic issues.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

Rift said:


> I'm guessing about half of us do. Still think Logan is the archetype for dad's best friend.. first crush on an adult.. that doesn't quite have his shit together so it seems like it's a closer match than it actually is. Psylock definitely would have been better than Jean. Without the Phoenix arc she was more damsel in distress. tiresome.
> 
> I personally was more for Nightcrawler... wounded introvert, toss in bishop and callisto and I might had been set.


I agree with you about Wolverine/Logan being sort of a dad-ish figure.

In the 90s some of the storyline (and I think also in the cartoon) showed him basically acting like a surrogate dad for Jubilee.

I didn't want to mention it, because it sounds weird or makes me sound like I have daddy issues or something, but Wolverine is probably the most like my dad out of any character, and I think as an adult I sort of view him more that way (almost like a dad figure).

I also don't have a crush on him anymore--If I were to choose someone from comic books now I'd probably choose someone like Daredevil or something--idk. He just seems sort of not-extreme, personality-wise?

I briefly thought someone from Infinity War was attractive--but idk who it was...Vision...I think he's a robot though? I thought he was attractive though. He's probably the most recent comic character I'd been attracted to briefly. But I don't know anything about that character and probably only a few minutes of him. So I don't really have a true crush and it wasn't childhood. (I think I said it was Aquaman but idk--I just remembered this guy, but I haven't even seen most of these scenes--I would probably watch a movie just to learn more about him though.)







I really did not like Jean--even her older versions she was so ugh. The movie made her into more of a nerd, which gave her depth, but I found her really boring in the comics. Her powers were cool though, but it was like she didn't even have a dark side without the Pheonix.

I haven't seen the new movies with Psylocke in them--I'm curious what she is like.

I also liked Nightcrawler. He is a pretty cool character--I think he also is sort of dad-ish though, isn't he? I can't remember if it was Nightcrawler or Colossus who was sort of a caregiver to Kitty Pryde. But I remember Nightcrawler being pretty cool...oh yeah, I'm pretty sure Kitty Pryde (Shadowcat) even had a little doll of Nightcrawler, which sort of showed his human side. I liked him a lot too--one of the better characters imo.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

Oh--I tried to find the information about the Nightcrawler doll--maybe I mistook Shadowcat for Illyana Rasputin or something--here's a Wikipedia article on Bamfs and Bamf dolls.

Always something weird going on with comic book storylines. lol








Bamf - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


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## Squirt (Jun 2, 2017)

UniversalIndividual said:


> Yeah, the comedy industry is always male-dominated for now. I would say that there are less comedians from the younger generations in general than there are from older generations because of the rise of feminazis, snowflakes, political correctness, and cancel culture.


Katherine Ryan surprises me. 😆

Katherine Ryan Being ICONIC for 17 Minutes Straight! | 8 Out of 10 Cats, The Big Narstie Show & More - YouTube


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## Squirt (Jun 2, 2017)

WickerDeer said:


> I briefly thought someone from Infinity War was attractive--but idk who it was...Vision...I think he's a robot though? I thought he was attractive though. He's probably the most recent comic character I'd been attracted to briefly. But I don't know anything about that character and probably only a few minutes of him. So I don't really have a true crush and it wasn't childhood.


Just as an aside, the WandaVision show is pretty good.

WandaVision | Official Trailer | Disney+ - YouTube


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

Squirt said:


> Just as an aside, the WandaVision show is pretty good.
> 
> WandaVision | Official Trailer | Disney+ - YouTube


OMG I'm going to have to watch that! I hope I get a celebrity/fictional crush on him! 

Fictional characters are so much safer than real people.


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## Rift (Mar 12, 2012)

WickerDeer said:


> I also liked Nightcrawler. He is a pretty cool character--I think he also is sort of dad-ish though, isn't he? I can't remember if it was Nightcrawler or Colossus who was sort of a caregiver to Kitty Pryde.


Nightcrawler had that whole tortured, oh I'm a demon-ish or space between his jumps are interdimensional into a hellscape, religious damage, looking for redemption and lots of body art in various versions plus a lot of odd jobs... many tortured, like a circus acrobat. thought he would come out before Colossus did. Then we could have that whole ashmedai bit being the protector of homosexuals. . . which even in lore is never explained except for that line. He was a bit needy yet aloof, desiring to be a part of something - life, family, a team, yet often anxiety got in the way more than his appearance. Colossus always seemed a bit on the lighter side of autistic but it could just be the russian thing.

x-men evolution: I liked some of the threads being crossed, getting back to mystique being nightcrawler & rogue's mother, and some kind of ancient demoness, one of the first mutants or something else.. but character development and plots were a little too degrassi. I'd like to see a reboot, tho. 

Logan, again, I thinkless dad than cool wayward uncle or one of his single friends, he has that whole fk'd up vibe.. the guy that buys you beer knowing you'd get it from somewhere and better from him on the condition you stay safely at home or takes you camping while laughing at your attempts to subdue nature or pitch a tent. exudes sexuality while looking like a hard lived hobo. he's ultra masculine while being indifferent to most things - yeah, very much antihero vs clean shaven conservative babyfaced it's my way or the highway Scott - which comes off antivillain, a little too self righteous. lawful good. the reason why most people don't like the personalities associated with paladins or jocks, school presidents, preppies. Scott comes off as passive aggressive and immature, uptight, throwing tantrums when people don't follow his orders, and his tendency to showboat while being unable to control his powers.. knock off his visor, his security blanket, he's lost and helpless. all the territorial pissing between the two just made it seem like they were more into each other than Jean, the girl next door, not too bright, but kind, pretty and clueless. of course, that could be part of her repressive programming to be a stepford wife.


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## Inkling considered INFJ (May 20, 2016)

I am glad I am not the only one with this. I had a huge crush on the main character of the stories I wrote, she was a clumsy INFJ woman and I felt so bad when I was finished with writing.


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## mia-me (Feb 5, 2021)

My first non-sexual crush was on a cartoon character. Not going to say which one but he was somewhat archetypal 'masculine' but not the domineering type. The type that wasn't afraid to step up and get stuff done, whenever necessary.


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