# What do SJs and NTs have in Common?



## DeductiveReasoner

The title is pretty self-explanatory. After the results of the "What do SJs think of NTs" thread, a few members and I thought it would be interesting to have a thread comparing these two types that can never seem to reach an agreement (at least on PerCaf). So name any observed similarities, be honest, and eat your hearts out.:laughing:


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## PyrLove

LOL. 20 views and over 12 hours later and nobody has anything to offer?

In my experience, the thing I have most in common with the SJs I know is an interest in honest discourse. The NFs and SPs I know are more willing to twist what they say in order to get a specific response from the listener. The SJs are less willing to do that.


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## lirulin

I can think of things I have in common with S*T*Js, but SFJs? ... not a great deal.

A certain appreciation of external order and organization, I suppose.


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## WamphyriThrall

IxTJs 

Need their time alone. Loyal to a fault to those close to them, usually showing it through actions
Both determined, serious, competent, and usually rise to the top of their career fields
Can come off as aloof, intimidating, and blunt to outsiders, especially feeling types
Organized, pragmatic, and logical, like most Te dominant and auxiliary users
Have a very subtle, dry sense of humor: Sarcasm, irony, wit, etc.

Although, the S/N divide is probably the biggest problem in communication, since we're both operating on different wave lengths, being from two opposite temperaments. Si doms seems more stable, consistent, and predictable. Nonetheless, we usually end up coming to the same conclusions and agreeing on a lot of things, it's just the getting there that can be frustrating for both sides. Luckily, we both have excellent observational talents, and can figure out ways to overcome it, provided that we're mature enough to accept the other side's differences and work toward a mutual understanding, which so far hasn't seemed to be a major problem from neither side, from what I've seen on PerC.


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## kittychris07

I think everyone wants to be understood. That's common ground, right? haha.


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## sts06

I have spent a lot of time talking with an INTP and one thing we noticed about each other is that we both have a tendency to stand back, watch and analyse what's going on around us. It's just that we are analysing from a slightly different point of view and analysing for slightly different things.


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## Antarctic

I suppose...the existence of a bottom line? How can I put this...in my opinion both NTs and SJs believe have a strong sense of things that are of fundamental importance. Whatever our emotional response is to things, we tend to have a strong sense of what the facts are, what needs to get done. 

Which doesn't necessarily say anything about having the same priorities in common, though!

I don't often SJs that are similar to myself but that doesn't matter much, they are nonetheless respectable for their commitment and resolution to things or people, their sense of priority, coming from someone who is generally unwilling to accept things as they are.


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## day_dreamer

One strange thing I have noticed between SJ and NT is they have a sense of responsibility, in a different way of course. While NTs will stick to their principles/truth/fairness even if it cuts them to pieces, SJs will stick to what they are told or what they have 'taken' up to be their duty even it they are torn into bits. In this strange sense of sticking to what one believes to be true, SJ and NTs are similar.


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## FreeSpirit

Both SJs and NTs are prone to seriousness.
You might not always see it, but underneath,
it's there.

I take myself (NT) and a person I know at work 
(SJ) as examples. I try not to form theories about 
any type I don't have real life experience with.


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## lreast

Stubbornness. I think NFs and especially SPs are a lot less stubborn that we are.


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## Agelaius

lreast said:


> Stubbornness. I think NFs and especially SPs are a lot less stubborn that we are.


Depends on the topic. I know I can sway back and forth from one thing to another as I get more information and reform my own thoughts. However, certain things that are more or less my "personal foundations" I can be damn stubborn about, and perhaps a little too much so. Those tend to be very heated moments if I'm not in the right mindset... :mellow:


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## lreast

Agelaius said:


> Depends on the topic. I know I can sway back and forth from one thing to another as I get more information and reform my own thoughts. However, certain things that are more or less my "personal foundations" I can be damn stubborn about, and perhaps a little too much so. Those tend to be very heated moments if I'm not in the right mindset... :mellow:


True. I know an INFP who gets really stubborn when it's something that is a "personal cause" of hers. However, I find that I'm just a stubborn person in general.


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## AquaColum

Agelaius said:


> However, certain things that are more or less my "personal foundations" I can be damn stubborn about, and perhaps a little too much so. Those tend to be very heated moments if I'm not in the right mindset... :mellow:





lreast said:


> True. I know an INFP who gets really stubborn when it's something that is a "personal cause" of hers.


You don't mess with Fi. :laughing:


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## General Lee

I find it funny that your other thread has eight pages.


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## Splodge

...

Wow. This is really difficult.

One of my flatmates is an ESFJ. It's much easier to find the differences than the similarities - not only our types but also our backgrounds are totally different, as are our personal values. Still, I'll give it a shot.

Stubbornness is the first that comes to mind. On the occasions we've disagreed (on almost all of them, we still do...), both of us are totally and completely certain of our standpoints, though for different reasons. I base my arguments on facts, logic, some research and hard data whenever I can get it. She bases hers on what she "knows", her emotional responses and what makes sense to her. Neither of us will accept anything the other presents as valid. (We're right and we bloody well know it!)

Um...we both like pancakes? I really am struggling here.

We both like order. She's taken charge of the general running of the flat. If she hadn't, I would have, but she (usually) does a good job of it and so I am mostly content to leave her to it.

In the first few weeks of living together, all eight of us got nicknamed. She's "Mummy", and I'm "Daddy". Go figure.

People come to both of us to solve disputes.

uhm...

We both totally suck at reading each other's emotional states and thought patterns.

And I'm out. *shrugs*

Maybe I'll think of some more later.


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## Mind Swirl

An ISTJ friend and I mostly have similarities in what we like (shows, games, some hobbies and interests). Those wouldn't be universal though. We both value logic, can appear serious, and can be stubborn.


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## Mendi the ISFJ

why NT and SJ, not NT and SF? also thats alot of types INTJ ENTJ INTP ENTP and ISFJ ISTJ ESTJ ESFJ. Its hard for all of those types to find something they all have in common


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## 2ch

SJs and NTs as a temperament to ask such question, "Do they have anything in common" will only create false stereotypes between the two. I am sure there are some commonality if not some interest ground that the two can mutually agree upon, regardless of their personality type. This goes for any temperaments.


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## lenabelle

My dad is an INTJ and I find we have plenty of things in common (though they may have more to do with parenting than with MBTI type). We both like analyzing all angles of a subject and talking it to death. We're both control freaks. We're both convinced we're right and tend to reject other viewpoints. We end up having some explosive arguments when he tries to control me, believing what he wants is what's right, but otherwise, we get along fairly well.


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## Coyote

DeductiveReasoner said:


> The title is pretty self-explanatory. After the results of the "What do SJs think of NTs" thread, a few members and I thought it would be interesting to have a thread comparing these two types that can never seem to reach an agreement (at least on PerCaf). So name any observed similarities, be honest, and eat your hearts out.:laughing:


Which NTs and which SJs? Looking at it from a Jungian perspective, they can have major similarities.

ENTJ vs. ESTJ = Both are Te-dom with an irrational aux, so they're very similar. You may have trouble telling them apart, especially if N and S haven't been differentiated.

INTJ vs. ISXJ = Both dominant functions (Ni/Si) are subjective and irrational, so Jung grouped them together. They're definitely not identical, but they have more in common than people seem to think. However, these types are probably the least likely to truly understand each other, since Ni-doms don't have Si and Si-doms don't have Ni.

ENTP vs. ISXJ = Share the Ne-Si axis for the dominant and inferior functions. They might irritate each other because of the antagonism between the conscious and the unconscious, but they can probably recognize some part of themselves in the other type.

INTP vs. ESFJ = Share the Ti-Fe axis. Same explanation as for the Ne-Si types.


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## intjmax

I have not had many experiences with SJs in general, so it is hard to list any similarities if there is hardly anything in common for us to even begin talking out of nowhere. I am assuming there will be a list of commonalities -- but this goes from person to person, not according to type.


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## MegaTuxRacer

SJN26 said:


> I have not had many experiences with SJs in general, so it is hard to list any similarities if there is hardly anything in common for us to even begin talking out of nowhere. I am assuming there will be a list of commonalities -- but this goes from person to person, not according to type.


Really? You don't have many experiences with SJs? Statistically speaking, 1 out of every 2 interactions with people you have should be with an SJ.


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## intjmax

MegaTuxRacer said:


> Really? You don't have many experiences with SJs? Statistically speaking, 1 out of every 2 interactions with people you have should be with an SJ.


I rarely go out and ever communicate with anybody and if it is with an SJ, it is to simply be acquainted. At this level, I hardly know anything about them but what it is that they do on a daily basis and what it is that they enjoy. It is mostly NFs or SPs that I encounter and get to know more better than on a surfaced level.


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## Navi

sts06 said:


> I have spent a lot of time talking with an INTP and one thing we noticed about each other is that we both have a tendency to stand back, watch and analyse what's going on around us. It's just that we are analysing from a slightly different point of view and analysing for slightly different things.


I'm an INTP with an ISFJ mom. She's the dearest thing to me. But as I grow older, I learn to be more eloquent and explain my point of views better. As I express it, she gets it. Before, she couldn't get why I was such an anxious kid because the points of views were somewhat different and I looked into different things than her. Then after I started talking about my thoughts, she completely understood it and it deepened her perspective, if you will. Actually, I think the more I grow and mature and talk with her, the more our functions develop bwaha. I notice that her Ti and Ne are stronger as we talk and I mature. She's helped me with my Si, no doubt about that. But since I'm still so young I struggle with my Fe, no matter _who _even *tries* to help me, ffs. :bored:


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## YOLOsodie

We have NOTHING in common i can't STAND my ESFJ mother and her little cronies she calls 'friends'.


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## INTJellectual

I think, the ability to seriously make our lives better either thru job or business or expanding knowledge and skills or creating a new idea.


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## rd93

One of my closest friends is an ENTP. We didn't get along for years when I was more of an annoying immature ESFJ, but we're like sisters now. I can see so many things that are different between us, but the closer we get, the more I notice what we have in common. We're like mirror images or inverses of each other, which would be true considering our flipped functions. 

The Cons
-I get irritated when we're late or when our plans change, which to her is not a big deal and happens all the time....and it annoys her when I rush her. 
-I also had to get used to her way of talking, which occurred to me as very rude and hurtful, but knowing her more makes it much less aggressive. 
-She's great at getting under peoples' skin in arguments, which irritates me to high hell when she does it to me. On the contrary I suck at arguing and get too angry too fast and lost all points of logic.

The Pro's
-She has in a way acknowledged that my care for others is genuine, even though it is not as important to her (not saying she isn't caring; she does it in her own way and for people really close to her). 
-When dealing with people, we're a complementary duality. We both bring something different to the table.
-I can also almost always understand her motives behind things, which she feels she needs to explain to me in order to avoid being misunderstood (she's used to people who don't understand that most of the time or misinterpret her intentions). 
-Often I find that our reasoning, motives and opinions are very much the same. 
-She voices her opinions openly, whereas I don't in avoidance of unnecessarily hurting peoples' feelings, but we're thinking the same thing. 
-Unfortunately we're both good with manipulating people for a favorable outcome, which we find we do unconsciously at times to gather information. 
-The best part is our mutual love of going out and doing things one day, and sitting inside in sweatpants with pizza the next day.


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## littleblackdress

I think a major NT SJ similarity is in "wanting to know" "wanting to be right" - but the avenues we take are different. I am a parent. I see most parenting books written BY SJs for SJs - but NT parents read them too - a wide variety of them. In fact, using parenting books to parent is supposed to be a major NT parent trait (along with sternness) (according to statistics). NF parents that I have known talk about facts confusing the issue... I think SJs and NTs are generally more comfortable with facts (even SFJs... - I mean most teachers are SFJs - they have to have some comfort with facts).


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## Tea Path

we breathe oxygen, we eat food.


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## Shazzette

I agree with some of the other posters here--both SJs and NTs have a desire to be understood by the other. 

It can be a long and difficult process as we both have very different ways of processing information. SJs seem to be very much grounded in the here and now and like detailed, specific information. As an NT I tend jump around a lot--going from one point straight to another and omitting any detail that I consider boring or unnecessary. 

You SJs pull me back into reality. In return, I'll introduce you to a whole new world of possibilities.


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## rawrmosher

This may be completely wrong, so yell at me if it is. 

The way I've always thought of it is SJ's and NT's represent order, SP's and NF's represent chaos xD. 
With the exception of ENTP's and INFJ's. They tend to go over to the other side


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## Fern

We have a shared desire to get stuff done!


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## Caged Within

In my personal experience, members of both tend to be very annoying.


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## DylanA

NTJ & STJ are similar due to "TJ" which means extroverted thinking. For example I'm ENTJ and my dad's ISTJ and we're similar in our general emotionless, organized sense (Te), but he often dismisses new ideas, where I am a lot more open to them (Si vs Ni).


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## Thomas60

DylanA said:


> NTJ & STJ are similar due to "TJ" which means extroverted thinking. For example I'm ENTJ and my dad's ISTJ and we're similar in our general emotionless, organized sense (Te), but he often dismisses new ideas, where I am a lot more open to them (Si vs Ni).


I think just being older and conditioning by experience will tend us to denounce new ideas, because it requires less mental effort and risk and the conditioning that comes along with uncreative jobs and being around older generation people who aren't so concerned with learning the world.
-ofc not to say he isn't ISTJ, just that my scores have gotten more S since my time at university.


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