# How can I stop people from treating my like a failure for being single



## Aquamarine (Jul 24, 2011)

The Nightwalker said:


> Knowledge comes from within. You must ask yourself these questions not us.
> 
> Never conform if you are conforming because you want to conform. Only conform when you take action that happens to conform.
> 
> The best way to stop being viewed as a failure is to start being viewed as a success. A success in other's eyes not necessarily your own. If that is what you want.


Thank you for your insight. If there's anything that I have realised today, it's finding out that success is subjective.


----------



## Antipode (Jul 8, 2012)

Athena Avril said:


> I don't usually feel comfortable about sharing these details, but if it helps to solve my problems, why not?
> 
> I only have had a total of three "relationships", though all are online. I know that means it's not a true relationship, but let's just ignore that and talk about the real ones.
> 
> ...


I think the solution is quite simple.

First off, you claim you told your crush that you had a crush. This not how you go about doing things, no matter how many times it is done in movies. If someone came to me and said, "I've been thinking about you for 3 months now, just thinking and wanting and thinking, and now I have the courage to ask you out," I'd feel more uncomfortable than anything. Relationships start the moment you ask someone out, not three months before so; so, essentially, you have three months worth of emotions that the other partner doesn't have. This can cause a whole wealth of issues the partner might have with that. 

However, that's the last thing you did before the chance of a relationship halted; in truth, there are many things before it you could change. 

Let's address the online relationship issue. The problem is not so much that the relationship is untrue, the problem is that there is no physical contact. Without this, you are simply typing words on a screen and receiving words on a screen; it turns into a relationship between you and your perception of your partner. It becomes delusional. There are instances when relationships started online have worked, but they are so rare and far apart that I'd hope your self-image is strong enough to avoid those odds of getting hurt.

The biggest problem I see is you wanted to date those you've helped because they are an easy catch. Relationships that start on these terms do not last. Your friendship did not start based off of personal interest for each other, it started because one was in need and another decided to help. The moment these terms become unneeded, the relationship is bound to come undone. 

Yet, I think the most obvious issue is your self-confidence. When guys see that, they will either think, "I'm not attracted to a girl with low self-confidence," or, "She's an easy catch. Let's see if I can get a one night stand with her." 

It doesn't sound like your goal is really to have a loving relationship, but rather to just have a relationship in general. While the latter is good, the former is what should be stronger. It isn't a chess game you can just force your way to victory in. 

Also, because of this, I think it'd be better if you didn't ask guys out. Unless, of course, you decide to do it within the first week of meeting the person. It is a date, not a marriage proposal. You do not need to fall in love with the boy before dating. In fact, it shouldn't be done. When you date someone, the experiences shared become different: They are tainted over with a bit of infatuation and love. So when you waste three months hanging out with the person as just friends, you are wasting three months of "sharing" and "strength-bonding" you have had. 

This is why I don't understand why people have the need to be in love before asking someone out. So just jump into the pool. roud:


----------



## Falling Leaves (Aug 18, 2011)

Athena Avril said:


> On a side note, I don't know why I feel uneasy when I fall in love, almost like I'm about to fall into a trap.


Everybody feels this way, trust me. I am extremely phobic of the concept of being emotionally reliant on anybody.

On a side note, if you find someone you seem to get along with and there's some mutual attraction, I don't think there's any harm in seeing where things go. What you should do however, is go on dates and put yourself in positions you aren't comfortable with - you'll be trading one cage for another. 

Then again, I'm a militant feminist with a strong demisexual preference so I'm bias - whatever the circumstance, I'm going to have a hard time telling people - particularly women - to go out and date for the sake of it.


----------



## Aquamarine (Jul 24, 2011)

The Umbraic Light said:


> I think the solution is quite simple.
> 
> First off, you claim you told your crush that you had a crush. This not how you go about doing things, no matter how many times it is done in movies. If someone came to me and said, "I've been thinking about you for 3 months now, just thinking and wanting and thinking, and now I have the courage to ask you out," I'd feel more uncomfortable than anything. Relationships start the moment you ask someone out, not three months before so; so, essentially, you have three months worth of emotions that the other partner doesn't have. This can cause a whole wealth of issues the partner might have with that.


LOL. It's hardly as neat as how it goes on in the movies. I'm not good with dealing with emotional matters, so I would tell them straight that I feel for them more than a friend, and ask if they would like to continue to the next level." There's usually an awkward silence from a few days to a week, and the bad news came.

I asked people out for dates before, and usually get rejected. Granted, they have their own lives and may be busy, or they may not others to assume that they have something going on with me. I would do the same if I were busy too.

I can see what you mean. I've never experienced this before myself, but if I were to get an unexpected love letter or Valentine's gift, I would immediately find an excuse to disappear completely from his sight at least for a week.



The Umbraic Light said:


> However, that's the last thing you did before the chance of a relationship halted; in truth, there are many things before it you could change.


I can see the problem now, thanks for explaining.



The Umbraic Light said:


> Let's address the online relationship issue. The problem is not so much that the relationship is untrue, the problem is that there is no physical contact. Without this, you are simply typing words on a screen and receiving words on a screen; it turns into a relationship between you and your perception of your partner. It becomes delusional. There are instances when relationships started online have worked, but they are so rare and far apart that I'd hope your self-image is strong enough to avoid those odds of getting hurt.


I did this all out of spite to show people's my worth, which links back to the main topic. I hardly felt much for the other party, and I doubt the other party feels much for me either. That's why it feels like I'm lying, even though there's a possibility that such a person exists.

I've been spending so many years of trying to prove myself to others that I've forgotten what kind of partner I truly wanted myself. I know my basic requirements, but nothing more than that.



The Umbraic Light said:


> The biggest problem I see is you wanted to date those you've helped because they are an easy catch. Relationships that start on these terms do not last. Your friendship did not start based off of personal interest for each other, it started because one was in need and another decided to help. The moment these terms become unneeded, the relationship is bound to come undone.


You are right, I've heard of such relationships breaking up when the receiving party turns ungrateful and goes against the giving party. I've experienced this on a friendship level.



The Umbraic Light said:


> Yet, I think the most obvious issue is your self-confidence. When guys see that, they will either think, "I'm not attracted to a girl with low self-confidence," or, "She's an easy catch. Let's see if I can get a one night stand with her."


No wonder I am attracting perverts and creeps. :frustrating: Now that I'm not an impulsive teenager anymore, I am not that easygoing, even if I'm really desperate. I'd rather just flee and never return.



The Umbraic Light said:


> It doesn't sound like your goal is really to have a loving relationship, but rather to just have a relationship in general. While the latter is good, the former is what should be stronger. It isn't a chess game you can just force your way to victory in.


Deep inside me, I am not really ready for a relationship, it's to prove that I'm not a loser and that I'm better than the people who called me a loser. I like your figure of speech, but I feel more like I am forced to gamble in a casino out of my almost-empty wallet, and I can't leave my seat until I win. So here I am, trapped in the casino (expectations), with an empty wallet (no more chances left) and exhausted with my situation.



The Umbraic Light said:


> Also, because of this, I think it'd be better if you didn't ask guys out. Unless, of course, you decide to do it within the first week of meeting the person. It is a date, not a marriage proposal. You do not need to fall in love with the boy before dating. In fact, it shouldn't be done. When you date someone, the experiences shared become different: They are tainted over with a bit of infatuation and love. So when you waste three months hanging out with the person as just friends, you are wasting three months of "sharing" and "strength-bonding" you have had.


I hardly ask people out for date anymore, as I get rejected most of the time anyway. There's no guarantee of success after putting in lots of effort on a date, so I'd rather not participate.



The Umbraic Light said:


> This is why I don't understand why people have the need to be in love before asking someone out. So just jump into the pool. roud:


It's not about the love, but about no guarantee that by putting in effort on the dates, that I will succeed. I feel uncomfortable with taking chances, and I wonder what I should do about it.


----------



## Aquamarine (Jul 24, 2011)

Falling Leaves said:


> Everybody feels this way, trust me. I am extremely phobic of the concept of being emotionally reliant on anybody.
> 
> On a side note, if you find someone you seem to get along with and there's some mutual attraction, I don't think there's any harm in seeing where things go. What you should do however, is go on dates and put yourself in positions you aren't comfortable with - you'll be trading one cage for another.
> 
> Then again, I'm a militant feminist with a strong demisexual preference so I'm bias - whatever the circumstance, I'm going to have a hard time telling people - particularly women - to go out and date for the sake of it.


I'm glad that I am not the only one who has ever felt this way.

I have never had any mutual attraction in real life. It's always one-sided (The Umbraic Light has addressed the reason of this issue), either on the other party's side or on my side.

Perhaps people reject my offer for dates because they assume that dates are only for romantically-involved individuals?

I always have this fear, due to the worry of "What if he's not what I thought him to be?" and "Is there any danger of being too reliant on him emotionally? What if he leaves?".

Everywhere in the world, there are horrifying stories of love stories gone wrong. Worst still, divorce rates are at an all-time high, with more than 50% leading to divorce. It puts me off romance a lot. In addition, there's always the danger of STDs.


----------



## Diphenhydramine (Apr 9, 2010)

Athena Avril said:


> I'm sorry that I give you the misconception that I am criticising all the people from Singapore (I am a native myself). The society is largely made up of people from all over the world. Those who've called me a loser for being single are from various parts of Southeast Asia, and that was why I did not specify a country. Of course, it's not everyone, but the minority who choose to think about me as a loser blew up the whole matter.
> 
> Again, I realise that being married by thirties is somehow expected of women in the overall Asian culture. I am not saying that I lose respect of everybody in the culture. Maybe I give that vibe out, but that's not what I mean.
> 
> ...


 What I essentially meant was that I agree it can be tough for women in Asian cultures; but you aren't going to change that culture, and you either must find some sort of peace with it, or ultimately, like a lot of people, leave it. 

However - five girls of which all are foreign? Come on, this is not a plurality, especially not of your own country. I think you are being a bit too oversensitive of what a few people think of you. I am sure that there are at least five people on this forum alone who think I am a raging moron: am I bothered? Nah. (Perhaps I should be.) 

Why should they think you are a loser? You're a university graduate. Presumably you didn't fail. You have your whole life ahead of you. Fuck those people. Just give them the finger and move on: I am sure that the majority of people you meet don't think you're a loser. I mean there have been more foreigners posting on this thread that agree that you aren't than the number of people who think you are. 

Fuck em!


----------



## Aquamarine (Jul 24, 2011)

Diphenhydramine said:


> What I essentially meant was that I agree it can be tough for women in Asian cultures; but you aren't going to change that culture, and you either must find some sort of peace with it, or ultimately, like a lot of people, leave it.
> 
> However - five girls of which all are foreign? Come on, this is not a plurality, especially not of your own country. I think you are being a bit too oversensitive of what a few people think of you. I am sure that there are at least five people on this forum alone who think I am a raging moron: am I bothered? Nah. (Perhaps I should be.)
> 
> ...


If this ever goes out of hand, I'll probably need to leave.

As I was in an international school, the non-natives are the plurality. Does this mean that I am not thick-skinned enough. I understand that people have their personal beliefs, but I never believe in forcing one's beliefs onto others, unless it's for their own good. I only accept humiliation if it's a cause for my own good. In what way is it "for my own good" here? They aren't even my parents or significant figures of authority. 

Why would they think you are a raging moron? Do they have evidence?

Yes, I passed my bachelors. I will give them the finger if they ever do it again. I'm a non-confrontational person, but they better not cross my limits.


----------



## Diphenhydramine (Apr 9, 2010)

Athena Avril said:


> If this ever goes out of hand, I'll probably need to leave.
> 
> As I was in an international school, the non-natives are the plurality. Does this mean that I am not thick-skinned enough. I understand that people have their personal beliefs, but I never believe in forcing one's beliefs onto others, unless it's for their own good. I only accept humiliation if it's a cause for my own good. In what way is it "for my own good" here? They aren't even my parents or significant figures of authority.
> 
> ...


 I know Singapore has a high density of foreigners, but come on, it's not representative of the rest of the population, surely. I think you are taking their criticism too much to heart - they just sound like assholes and most people aren't assholes, anywhere.


----------



## Aquamarine (Jul 24, 2011)

Diphenhydramine said:


> I know Singapore has a high density of foreigners, but come on, it's not representative of the rest of the population, surely. I think you are taking their criticism too much to heart - they just sound like assholes and most people aren't assholes, anywhere.


I think so too, I suppose I lack thick skin and puts too much focus on saving face. It's surprising how these people know how to push my buttons.


----------



## Diphenhydramine (Apr 9, 2010)

Athena Avril said:


> I think so too, I suppose I lack thick skin and puts too much focus on saving face. It's surprising how these people know how to push my buttons.


 Since you've freshly graduated, haven't they left your life yet?


----------



## milti (Feb 8, 2012)

Athena Avril said:


> I'm sorry that I give you the misconception that I am criticising all the people from Singapore (I am a native myself). The society is largely made up of people from all over the world. Those who've called me a loser for being single are from various parts of Southeast Asia, and that was why I did not specify a country. Of course, it's not everyone, but the minority who choose to think about me as a loser blew up the whole matter.
> 
> Again, I realise that being married by thirties is somehow expected of women in the overall Asian culture. I am not saying that I lose respect of everybody in the culture. Maybe I give that vibe out, but that's not what I mean.
> 
> ...


Ah, I'm from South Asia myself and I understand about the expectations placed on women in this part of the world. I'm in my late 20s and don't have anyone on the horizon to even begin LIKING, let alone get married to! Today I showed my mother an article in a popular magazine about lesbian relationships, and she took me aside and whispered, "Is THAT why you don't have a boyfriend?" I had to bite back my laughter looking at the expression of horror and alarm on her face. I'm as heterosexual as can be, and yet I have never been to keep a boyfriend for more than a year or two. 

Am I worried? Sometimes. At this age, most of the friends I grew up with in school and college have gotten married, engaged... A good number of them are even mothers. I haven't even thought that far in my wildest dreams. Maybe I should start, but why? 

Is everyone else worried? ALL THE FREAKING TIME!!! My parents dwell on this more than I do. My mother is miserable she will probably never be a grandma. My dad worries about it as well, and his friends and colleagues give me (completely unsolicited) advice on my failed love life. I've learnt to laugh it off, make jokes about it. If I dwell on it too much, like you'tr doing, I will begin to count my flaws and decide "that's why no guy likes me!" Yes, in a country of a billion people, more than 50% of them male, I haven't found even ONE man whom I can get along enough with to make me decide I wouldn't mind spending my life with him. 

But you just have to keep yourself busy with other stuff and forget about wanting to be with someone, wanting to marry, etc. If it happens, it happens. If it doesn't... You could be in a worse position. I think Asian society places way too much importance on marriage, family, heterosexuality, whatever it is. You life is ultimately yours, and your priorities don't have to be (and in this case, clearly aren't) their priorities.

Also, you are young.

You can't make anyone change their opinion of you. All you can do is change the way you react to them.


----------



## Aquamarine (Jul 24, 2011)

Diphenhydramine said:


> Since you've freshly graduated, haven't they left your life yet?


There's a possibility that I may meet them when I go back to settle some final paperwork (graduation is in a few months). I am still waiting for the certificate and transcript to be ready. I hope those blabbermouths forget about it, or at least shut up about it.


----------



## Diphenhydramine (Apr 9, 2010)

Athena Avril said:


> There's a possibility that I may meet them when I go back to settle some final paperwork (graduation is in a few months). I hope they forget about it, or at least shut up about it.


 Well you can forget the whole episode after that, then.


----------



## yet another intj (Feb 10, 2013)

Athena Avril said:


> It's surprising how these people know how to push my buttons.


They can't know and press those buttons if you don't expose your insecurity. Focus on your own problematic perspective, not their external efforts. They can hurt you right now just because you are subconsciously expecting something hurtful. There's no solution but honestly maintaining your inner peace. It's hard to achieve but possible.


----------



## Aquamarine (Jul 24, 2011)

milti said:


> Ah, I'm from South Asia myself and I understand about the expectations placed on women in this part of the world. I'm in my late 20s and don't have anyone on the horizon to even begin LIKING, let alone get married to! Today I showed my mother an article in a popular magazine about lesbian relationships, and she took me aside and whispered, "Is THAT why you don't have a boyfriend?" I had to bite back my laughter looking at the expression of horror and alarm on her face. I'm as heterosexual as can be, and yet I have never been to keep a boyfriend for more than a year or two.
> 
> Am I worried? Sometimes. At this age, most of the friends I grew up with in school and college have gotten married, engaged... A good number of them are even mothers. I haven't even thought that far in my wildest dreams. Maybe I should start, but why?
> 
> ...


I appreciate it that you share your experience with me. Thank you.

I can understand why parents are worried, but friends and colleagues need to keep their noses off others' business. Unfortunately, we can't change how they think or how they want to behave.

I am also sorry that you have to go through this. I place much emphasis in gaining others' respect and making people take me seriously, so I have a hard time laughing at myself.

If you want to find a partner, I suggest also looking for men from other countries as well? That can increase your probability.

I agree that there's too much emphasis on going the traditional route of marriage. For those who don't have that luck, there's no need to make them feel ashamed.

I will share a little about myself. It's not just in love, I am very self-critical. I strongly believe that as long as I put enough effort in something, I will succeed. So far, this is not the case. I realised that in the real world, love is a gamble and a game of chance.

So when I am a failure despite putting much effort into something, I will sometimes question myself. Often, this method is very helpful in finding where the problem is, and solve it. It can be anything, from mastering a new internet game, memorising a song or understanding a topic or think of the topic with another approach. I can read the instructions, use memory techniques or When I see other people succeeding but myself failing, I can go as far as deciding that I am hopeless in that aspect. I find it hard to accept that something is based on luck or chances.

I suspect that this has something to do with me dressing and behaving too boyishly (I am also heterosexual) and that I am not good with mincing words and people think that I am harsh.

I have been trying to adapt myself to people expectations for too long, and I can't take it anymore.


----------



## Aquamarine (Jul 24, 2011)

Diphenhydramine said:


> Well you can forget the whole episode after that, then.


I won't confront them unless they do it again. Most of all, I hope never to meet them again.


----------



## Aquamarine (Jul 24, 2011)

yet another intj said:


> They can't know and press those buttons if you don't expose your insecurity. Focus on your own problematic perspective, not their external efforts. They can hurt you right now just because you are subconsciously expecting something hurtful. There's no solution but honestly maintaining your inner peace. It's hard to achieve but possible.


Thanks for your helpful advice.

The experience is negative, and perhaps I should thank these jerks for pointing out my insecurities so that I can attempt to solve them. Whether that can be done or not is another story.


----------



## Aquamarine (Jul 24, 2011)

Thanks to all who offered your advice.


----------



## yet another intj (Feb 10, 2013)

Athena Avril said:


> Thanks for your helpful advice.
> 
> The experience is negative, and perhaps I should thank these jerks for pointing out my insecurities so that I can attempt to solve them.


Not like being naive and grateful for sure. More like being thankful with squinty eyes and a snarky half smile. :wink:


----------



## Aquamarine (Jul 24, 2011)

yet another intj said:


> Not like being naive and grateful for sure. More like being thankful with squinty eyes and a snarky half smile. :wink:


Yep, you know what I am thinking. ^_^

Or something like this works too:


----------



## Aquamarine (Jul 24, 2011)

StElmosDream said:


> *@Athena Avril
> *​People can only treat us how we let them, if we believe in ourself we are not single but rather not at the right place in time for more! then others will be unable to argue or disagree or influence us because we are sure in ourselves first and foremost!


Agreed. It's very much "wrong time, wrong place, wrong person" for me.


----------



## RandomNote (Apr 10, 2013)

Athena Avril said:


> I do get a lot of self-inflicted experiences too, but not much in that area.
> 
> Courage is what I need. Trouble is, my intimidating image (which I already have) seems to scare off potential mates and friends, and those who aren't afraid are the lousy choices. (I'm just talking about people I know in real life.) However, when I stop being intimidating, everybody just take me as their doormat.


Well it depends on how your intimidating......is it physical? is it attitude? reputation? finding it then working on it, if you can will help......also finding new people helps a lot gives ya a clean slate. For me it was my unpredictability ive been told by friends and others that i scare them cause they had no idea what i might do at any moment. Not to mention i had not been seen in a positive light before so that didn't help either. Anyway try to find balance in yourself and even though its hard try finding new people. Since you say your around the same age as me then you have plenty of time to find someone just take it one step at a time.


----------



## Aquamarine (Jul 24, 2011)

RandomNote said:


> Well it depends on how your intimidating......is it physical? is it attitude? reputation? finding it then working on it, if you can will help......also finding new people helps a lot gives ya a clean slate. For me it was my unpredictability ive been told by friends and others that i scare them cause they had no idea what i might do at any moment. Not to mention i had not been seen in a positive light before so that didn't help either. Anyway try to find balance in yourself and even though its hard try finding new people. Since you say your around the same age as me then you have plenty of time to find someone just take it one step at a time.


I just naturally emit the signal that I'm not a friendly person. I tried pretending to be friendly, and it seems like it only attracts people who like to take advantage of me.

I have just left people from my past behind, and I already feel more relaxed. Out of curiosity, why aren't you seen in a positive light?


----------



## RandomNote (Apr 10, 2013)

Athena Avril said:


> Out of curiosity, why aren't you seen in a positive light?


Well when i was younger 12-13 or so i took in too much negative information as well as had negative experiences with people in a short amount of time. Now first i should say i was a very sheltered child and had no real negative experiences so it was a bit much for me to take at the time. I quickly fell into depression with some anxiety that eventually lead to a slight mental breakdown. During this period i lacked control over my violent self and well.......the rest is a bit of a violent blur. Anyway a few years went by and i gained some control over myself(without therapy or drugs just by myself). Its mostly the part were i was violent that got me that bad light but only within those around me(which turned out to be alot cause i knew alot of people) my parents and teachers didn't notice cause i hid it well. 

Thats mostly why....the rest of it came form when i gained better control over myself but still wasn't all there.......what a wild time in my life.....anyway im much better now and at the end of my high school life people said i was like a different person compared to before still unpredictable though. Thats my story of why i was seen in a bad light sorry it was kinda long.


----------



## Aquamarine (Jul 24, 2011)

RandomNote said:


> Well when i was younger 12-13 or so i took in too much negative information as well as had negative experiences with people in a short amount of time. Now first i should say i was a very sheltered child and had no real negative experiences so it was a bit much for me to take at the time. I quickly fell into depression with some anxiety that eventually lead to a slight mental breakdown. During this period i lacked control over my violent self and well.......the rest is a bit of a violent blur. Anyway a few years went by and i gained some control over myself(without therapy or drugs just by myself). Its mostly the part were i was violent that got me that bad light but only within those around me(which turned out to be alot cause i knew alot of people) my parents and teachers didn't notice cause i hid it well.
> 
> Thats mostly why....the rest of it came form when i gained better control over myself but still wasn't all there.......what a wild time in my life.....anyway im much better now and at the end of my high school life people said i was like a different person compared to before still unpredictable though. Thats my story of why i was seen in a bad light sorry it was kinda long.


That's all right, and you've clarified my question well. Good thing that you recovered from the hurt.

Perhaps I should share a little about myself as well. When I was in Secondary School (also known as middle school grade 7-8 and high school grade 9-10), I get bullied by students after my mother told them off for misbehaving. It started towards the end of year 2 (grade 8) and ended after I completed year 4 (grade 10).

After the first few attempts to stop this, I didn't dare tell my parents anymore, as they will tell those brats off, and this in turn means more bullying. All of them ganged up against me, and I mean _everyone_. Even the most timid girl in class repeatedly stole my math homework. I didn't tell the teachers and principal because they are on the bullies' side. I even tried to get myself expelled, to no avail. I have no evidence of being bullied, because it was all verbal, so I resigned to my fate and put my focus on graduating ASAP.

The teasing incident about me being single is nothing compared to all that bullying. My heart is quite hardened towards others now, and it takes a while to melt. I have yet to meet anyone whom I can trust completely and be vulnerable to.


----------



## RandomNote (Apr 10, 2013)

Yeah i see where your coming from on the trust issues but mine stem from paranoia rather than harsh experiences cause violence worked really well against bullying.......a little too well cause of the being feared and all but i digress. I see all that crap as a learning experience and even though it sucked ass at the time its partially what made me my current self but i still have a ton of things to learn so its not over yet. Anyway thanks for sharing your side as well life is short but long just keep going and chances for better will appear.


----------



## Dark NiTe (Mar 5, 2012)

Athena Avril said:


> By the way, I'm a little confused by this part:


Well, what exactly do you find confusing?


----------



## Aquamarine (Jul 24, 2011)

benr3600 said:


> Well, what exactly do you find confusing?


It's all this sentence in particular:


> In specific, they are only "open" during that opportunity, after that, people behave like petulant children and throw away the future potential because, likely due to their cowardice/lack of forthcomingness, you "rejected" them in the past.




What do you mean by "open" and what kind of opportunity are you talking about?
Why do they behave childishly?
I didn't remember reject anyone because they did not approach me, but when I did, it's because I find that they have some issues. Where did you get that from?


----------



## Jwing24 (Aug 2, 2010)

Whenever this comes up for me, and they inevitably complain about the relationship at some point, I like to say something like "sucks for you, glad I don't have to deal with any of that".

Yes I can feel lonely once and a while. But I can do what I want, when I went, however I want. I like that.


----------



## Cthulhu And Coffee (Mar 8, 2012)

They think that because it's been made public "news" that being single is pathetic. My advice is, leave it alone and hope they may one day become more than a follower, or make it public "news" that it's UNTRUE, which it is.


----------



## Female INFJ (Feb 27, 2010)

Athena Avril 

I'm sorry to hear what you are going through. I can see there may be cultural issues at play here. You could move or entertain the idea of a boyfriend. I see you are still young there are many options available to you. If you want to continue to be single a transformation from within is going to have to happen. You are focusing on yourself and your education that is a good start. Try to enjoy your life as it is and build from within a strong force where you feel good about yourself even if you aren't like the other girls around you. 

Where their barbs kind of bounce off the top of your shield and you are ok with that. Come up with some basic come backs and looks when dealing with other people around you so you aren't stressed. Whether or not we like it at times around us on Earth it seems like a game of winners and losers. Sex and relationships are top priority to people so without them, often people are classified as outcasts. It is hard with a tough external situation to listen to yourself within. But you'll have to get some friendly support and rely on yourself. 

I'm not going to sit here and say beauty is in the eye of the beholder, because I know how tough certain cultures are and I'm an ugly girl so I live that consequence every day. You've got to create your own happiness and allow yourself to enjoy life regardless of what others think.


----------



## Dark NiTe (Mar 5, 2012)

Athena Avril said:


> It's all this sentence in particular:
> 
> 
> What do you mean by "open" and what kind of opportunity are you talking about?
> ...


Well, for example, I've been publicly humiliated by a woman before, because I had "rejected her" lol. She asked me if I had any plans for winter break one day, and I told her the truth, which was that I would be spending the entire week with my family at my grandparent's new house across the country. Shortly after I came back, I asked this girl out, and she proceeded to reject me, and then ask every single person at work to a party she was throwing at a bar that Friday night...everybody except for me. People mentioned it was because I "rejected her," and since nobody else knew that she had asked me that, the only way anybody could have known is if she went around telling people. There are lots of little stories, even back in HS when this girl I knew and didn't even know she liked me, asked all of my friends to come with her for steak and lobster on the night of Homecoming dance. I didn't have any idea I was being deliberately excluded, until I asked if I could come, and she said "no" quite emphatically. I guess that was worth draining her savings account over? 

And I hope you don't remember rejecting anyone who didn't approach you :tongue:


----------



## BarryO (Mar 13, 2013)

Athena Avril said:


> I've heard of both sites before. Haven't joined these two, but I once joined a similar matchmaking site (I forgot the name) years ago and got the attention of people looking for a one-night stand.
> 
> Sorry, I am open to online relationships, but that's not the kind of relationship that I am looking for.


I think your problem is that you are fuucking stupid. Most people on Plenty of Fish are not looking for a one night stand. I've had two friends who are still dating girls they met off there over a year ago. You need to lay of the weed


----------



## Aquamarine (Jul 24, 2011)

RandomNote said:


> Yeah i see where your coming from on the trust issues but mine stem from paranoia rather than harsh experiences cause violence worked really well against bullying.......a little too well cause of the being feared and all but i digress. I see all that crap as a learning experience and even though it sucked ass at the time its partially what made me my current self but i still have a ton of things to learn so its not over yet. Anyway thanks for sharing your side as well life is short but long just keep going and chances for better will appear.


Let's be glad that all that bad experiences are over now, and it's good that you are able to see it as a learning experience. In my case, I could not retaliate because all the bullying was verbal and not physical.

If you want to start over in life, I find this website helpful: http://tinybuddha.com/blog/6-powerful-questions-that-will-change-your-life-forever/ These 6 points can be a helpful starting point.


----------



## Aquamarine (Jul 24, 2011)

Jwing24 said:


> Whenever this comes up for me, and they inevitably complain about the relationship at some point, I like to say something like "sucks for you, glad I don't have to deal with any of that".
> 
> Yes I can feel lonely once and a while. But I can do what I want, when I went, however I want. I like that.


Good point there. My friends who are paired up seldom come complaining to me, but it's those single girls who are making fun of me because I am single. Perhaps a better analogy would be "a pot calling a kettle black".

I like the freedom as well. If society doesn't have a requirement on having a relationship, I would date and marry when I want to, not when I am supposed to do it.


----------



## Aquamarine (Jul 24, 2011)

boughtmeawalkman said:


> They think that because it's been made public "news" that being single is pathetic. My advice is, leave it alone and hope they may one day become more than a follower, or make it public "news" that it's UNTRUE, which it is.


They have forgot that they are shooting themselves as well, as they were single at the time of this incident.

Personally I think it's very difficult, if not impossible, to win someone over if they're dead set against me. They will learn their lesson one day, and I don't want to be the one punishing or convincing them over.


----------



## Aquamarine (Jul 24, 2011)

Female INFJ said:


> Athena Avril
> 
> I'm sorry to hear what you are going through. I can see there may be cultural issues at play here. You could move or entertain the idea of a boyfriend. I see you are still young there are many options available to you. If you want to continue to be single a transformation from within is going to have to happen. You are focusing on yourself and your education that is a good start. Try to enjoy your life as it is and build from within a strong force where you feel good about yourself even if you aren't like the other girls around you.
> 
> ...


I would have the best of both worlds. I have dumped all my old friends and my old life, and that's a first step for me. Moving away would be my next step when I have saved enough and accomplished myself. As for the boyfriend, I just let it come. If not, there's always the option of arranged marriages and adopting children. If all else fails, I can start my life afresh once more.

I have already completed my education and have no plans of continuing if not necessary.

Thanks for sharing your new perspective!


----------



## Aquamarine (Jul 24, 2011)

benr3600 said:


> Well, for example, I've been publicly humiliated by a woman before, because I had "rejected her" lol. She asked me if I had any plans for winter break one day, and I told her the truth, which was that I would be spending the entire week with my family at my grandparent's new house across the country. Shortly after I came back, I asked this girl out, and she proceeded to reject me, and then ask every single person at work to a party she was throwing at a bar that Friday night...everybody except for me. People mentioned it was because I "rejected her," and since nobody else knew that she had asked me that, the only way anybody could have known is if she went around telling people. There are lots of little stories, even back in HS when this girl I knew and didn't even know she liked me, asked all of my friends to come with her for steak and lobster on the night of Homecoming dance. I didn't have any idea I was being deliberately excluded, until I asked if I could come, and she said "no" quite emphatically. I guess that was worth draining her savings account over?
> 
> And I hope you don't remember rejecting anyone who didn't approach you :tongue:


I thought that you mean 'rejection', as in an explicit one. Now it all makes sense.

Women can be oversensitive over misinterpreted body language sometimes. This can result in a lot of unnecessary drama. I've sometimes feel like this too, but I decide to see it rationally as it is.

Come to think of it, I have rejected a lot of friends' job offers, events invitations and promoting of insurance policies. After that, they decide not to be my friend anymore. They expect me to say 'yes' to everything. 

I just let it roll off my back because they aren't genuine friends and aren't worth my time in the first place. Meh, I don't like parties anyway, and I already have an insurance policy.


----------



## Aquamarine (Jul 24, 2011)

BarryO said:


> I think your problem is that you are fuucking stupid. Most people on Plenty of Fish are not looking for a one night stand. I've had two friends who are still dating girls they met off there over a year ago. You need to lay of the weed


I've heard of successful love stories of couples meeting via internet dating. On the other hand, there are plenty of cases of getting scammed by their online lovers as well. I am going to spend a lot of time sifting through replies and practice a lot of caution.

I have tried internet dating before (not in dating websites), and had one bad encounter and two good ones, so I can see your point there.

By the way, your insults don't seem to be working. :wink:


----------



## Luke (Oct 17, 2010)

I just want to say that you seem like a lovely person and it comes across clearly in your posts. It sounds like other people have treated you very badly. Anyone who judges you for being single has problems and their problems are not your fault. Love yourself. Be strong and proud.


----------



## Aquamarine (Jul 24, 2011)

Luke said:


> I just want to say that you seem like a lovely person and it comes across clearly in your posts. It sounds like other people have treated you very badly. Anyone who judges you for being single has problems and their problems are not your fault. Love yourself. Be strong and proud.


Thank you! They might have problems with being single themselves, and are discharging their negativity towards me.

I can relate to your signature too.


----------



## RandomNote (Apr 10, 2013)

Athena Avril said:


> Let's be glad that all that bad experiences are over now, and it's good that you are able to see it as a learning experience. In my case, I could not retaliate because all the bullying was verbal and not physical.
> 
> If you want to start over in life, I find this website helpful: 6 Powerful Questions That Will Change Your Life Forever | Tiny Buddha These 6 points can be a helpful starting point.


Ive already began that process ive spent the last 2 years(give or take) in a solitary environment with little contact with real people. Ive learned a great deal about myself but its not enough i need more information much more. I didn't start this to have new life or even by choice some family related issues have put me in a limbo like environment for the time. But whatever ill use it to gain more knowledge and see what happens......its kinda interesting.....which of the many out comes will come true i wonder?


----------



## Dark NiTe (Mar 5, 2012)

Athena Avril said:


> I thought that you mean 'rejection', as in an explicit one. Now it all makes sense.
> 
> Women can be oversensitive over misinterpreted body language sometimes. This can result in a lot of unnecessary drama. I've sometimes feel like this too, but I decide to see it rationally as it is.
> 
> ...


Yeah that's the thing, it's not actually rejection, if it's a delayed acceptance. lol. Speaking of approaching things rationally. I've concluded that the best approach to dating, is to simply move on, and quickly, after the first little spite rejection occurs, because I refuse to be wrapped around anyone's finger. I've even told a girl to "delete my phone number" the day after they pulled one of their power play stunts, she immediately went all emo, but she should have had a minimum of self control in the first place. My rationale, is, if this is how they are going to be during the very initiation of a relationship...imagine how insufferable they would be in the relationship itself? At this point, I've begun to sort out and aptly categorize the traits of a good partner, and I've even theorized why so many people are single and/or unhappy in a relationship. 

I know exactly what you mean about the people always feeling slighted thing, too. And you've already recognized that people that aren't truly worthy of friendship, will show their true colors. I remember one time I had a temporary job, because I literally wanted a temporary job for a year to pay off some debt. After several months of outstanding work, one of the supervisors recommended I apply for a full-time job. I told him I had no intention of being hired on full, and about a week later, people including him started treating me like shit, taking it personally, excluding me from fringe benefits when possible, and other things, so the rest of the time there would have been quite miserable, if not for the INTJ IDGAF-ness. lol. Another time I lost a job because some cute but ditzy blonde I worked for asked me in front of all the guys if I missed her while she was gone on vacation for two weeks. I took quite a while to think about it, then said "yes" though it was obvious I said that disingenuously to pander her ego. Shortly afterward, one of the supervisors told me I could go home early, since we were literally done with work for the day. I get a call from her very shortly before we were supposed to leave, and I get fired for leaving early. I mean, really? Why even ask things like that, if you know that the answer is bullshit anyway? It's not even about ego at that point, it's about image. People turn on me when I don't give them a job recommendation too. Truth is, it only took once for somebody to burn me that way. I once gave a recommendation for a friend of a friend who wanted a job where I worked, and the highest manager I would ever have to deal with came and asked me about him. He quit the first week because "they let me go home early on Friday at my old job." So, naturally, I'm the scumbag because I don't want to get burned again. People who ask me for a job tell me how my job sucks eventually after I tell them we're not hiring, a classic case of cognitive dissonance lol.


----------



## Laguna (Mar 21, 2012)

Athena Avril said:


> I am stuck at a dead-end. I hate being pathetic, yet I am stuck being pathetic. Ironic, huh?
> 
> In secondary school (equivalent of high school), no guy has ever told me that he likes me before, and I was fine with that because I used to think that I am an asexual and aromantic (I am a late bloomer in that aspect). I was aware that there were two guys who secretly like me from afar, but one is a complete jerk and the other seems to be mentally unstable. Needless to say, I stayed far away from them. I was an ugly duckling, and sometimes even the ugliest guys and girls make fun of me.
> 
> ...


I relate to a lot of this from my single days. I very much felt pressure from my cultural community (big time pressure- like prying into my life to know what I am doing/if and who I'm dating /if I'm a "good girl" etc.,) and also from society and from family. Let me tell you ... it's a BITCH that this type of pressure is on people- especially women. It's bullshit- sorry for my language- but these people do not need to live your life or endure your life- yet they think they have right to judge you and essentially make demands on you and what you should be.

Let me be frank with you: having a spouse or relationship does not define you. Never will. Regardless of what society says. I know it's easier said than done. But it's the truth. You do not live nor were put on this planet to adhere or please or pleasure or obligate to the pressures of society and what they deem is right for you. Those girls who humiliated you? Karma is a bitch. That is awful- and I'm sorry for that.

Until you believe this truth about yourself ...... you will not overcome it. We cannot blame society or those horrible girls for your condition. You have to decide you do not give a hoot about what society thinks of you ---- what girls think of you --- and you need to stop thinking you are worthless and ugly. I just don't buy that. I don't.

You are what you believe you are.

You put out there to people that aura and essence. 

If you are telling yourself you have nothing to offer and are ugly---- then that is what people will perceive too. I would not want to be with someone who thinks that of themselves. You have to stop the negative self-talk. Cuz if you don't? Then "they" win. "They" meaning society and everyone outside yourself that you have allowed to get to you and crawl beneath you skin.

You have built up defense mechanisms. Obviously- we all do that. But guess what? Love doesn't have a timeline. Having a wall around your heart is okay - as long as deep down you have the chisel somewhere should the need come to chip away at that. If and when someone comes along that meets YOUR high standards and allows you to show them your heart.

In the mean time- tell yourself, "Yeah- I'm not looking for a relationship right now."

Tell society ... no matter how hard it is, "Fuck you, society! I was not born to conform to your standards. So get OUT OF MY WAY."

Do it.

You deserve it.

You are not worthless and ugly. I don't buy that. Not one bit.

Find your center and your confidence already and live your life. And stop thinking about what others think of you. They do not matter!


----------



## RandomNote (Apr 10, 2013)

[clapping noises]........good rant.


----------



## Aquamarine (Jul 24, 2011)

RandomNote said:


> Ive already began that process ive spent the last 2 years(give or take) in a solitary environment with little contact with real people. Ive learned a great deal about myself but its not enough i need more information much more. I didn't start this to have new life or even by choice some family related issues have put me in a limbo like environment for the time. But whatever ill use it to gain more knowledge and see what happens......its kinda interesting.....which of the many out comes will come true i wonder?


Me too! I have been solitary (except for family) for the last 4 months, recuperating from exhaustion after finishing my course and "licking my wounds". I still use the internet, but have not contacted many people online until recently.

Do you mean that you are studying Jung typology, enneagram, etc to know more about myself? As for me, my ex-boyfriend (online) recommended me to this site to understand myself better. I have to say that it's a good opportunity for me.

That's wise advice for the both of us. I wonder about that a lot as well, and have just started seriously considering what I want to do with the rest of my life.


----------



## Aquamarine (Jul 24, 2011)

RandomNote said:


> [clapping noises]........good rant.


 I agree with you. Doesn't sound like she's ranting, though.


----------



## Aquamarine (Jul 24, 2011)

benr3600 said:


> Yeah that's the thing, it's not actually rejection, if it's a delayed acceptance. lol. Speaking of approaching things rationally. I've concluded that the best approach to dating, is to simply move on, and quickly, after the first little spite rejection occurs, because I refuse to be wrapped around anyone's finger. I've even told a girl to "delete my phone number" the day after they pulled one of their power play stunts, she immediately went all emo, but she should have had a minimum of self control in the first place. My rationale, is, if this is how they are going to be during the very initiation of a relationship...imagine how insufferable they would be in the relationship itself? At this point, I've begun to sort out and aptly categorize the traits of a good partner, and I've even theorized why so many people are single and/or unhappy in a relationship.
> 
> I know exactly what you mean about the people always feeling slighted thing, too. And you've already recognized that people that aren't truly worthy of friendship, will show their true colors. I remember one time I had a temporary job, because I literally wanted a temporary job for a year to pay off some debt. After several months of outstanding work, one of the supervisors recommended I apply for a full-time job. I told him I had no intention of being hired on full, and about a week later, people including him started treating me like shit, taking it personally, excluding me from fringe benefits when possible, and other things, so the rest of the time there would have been quite miserable, if not for the INTJ IDGAF-ness. lol. Another time I lost a job because some cute but ditzy blonde I worked for asked me in front of all the guys if I missed her while she was gone on vacation for two weeks. I took quite a while to think about it, then said "yes" though it was obvious I said that disingenuously to pander her ego. Shortly afterward, one of the supervisors told me I could go home early, since we were literally done with work for the day. I get a call from her very shortly before we were supposed to leave, and I get fired for leaving early. I mean, really? Why even ask things like that, if you know that the answer is bullshit anyway? It's not even about ego at that point, it's about image. People turn on me when I don't give them a job recommendation too. Truth is, it only took once for somebody to burn me that way. I once gave a recommendation for a friend of a friend who wanted a job where I worked, and the highest manager I would ever have to deal with came and asked me about him. He quit the first week because "they let me go home early on Friday at my old job." So, naturally, I'm the scumbag because I don't want to get burned again. People who ask me for a job tell me how my job sucks eventually after I tell them we're not hiring, a classic case of cognitive dissonance lol.


I really don't like the feeling of having somebody dictate what I have to do. It's very important to find somebody whom you can get along well with. If two people can't even get along as friends, it's impossible to imagine living together as a couple in the future.

I suppose that I have offended the person who made fun of my relationship status, because I refuse to help her do her assignments. However, at the same time, I have rejected many others as well. I can't really remember whether this occurred before or after, but if it indeed happened before, I have found out the real reason why she's targeting me.

To sum it up, these people are impossible to please. It's best not to bother with them once they showed their true colours.


----------



## Aquamarine (Jul 24, 2011)

Mango Kiwi said:


> I relate to a lot of this from my single days. I very much felt pressure from my cultural community (big time pressure- like prying into my life to know what I am doing/if and who I'm dating /if I'm a "good girl" etc.,) and also from society and from family. Let me tell you ... it's a BITCH that this type of pressure is on people- especially women. It's bullshit- sorry for my language- but these people do not need to live your life or endure your life- yet they think they have right to judge you and essentially make demands on you and what you should be.
> 
> Let me be frank with you: having a spouse or relationship does not define you. Never will. Regardless of what society says. I know it's easier said than done. But it's the truth. You do not live nor were put on this planet to adhere or please or pleasure or obligate to the pressures of society and what they deem is right for you. Those girls who humiliated you? Karma is a bitch. That is awful- and I'm sorry for that.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your encouragement!  I have no problem with your language, but I do advice you to tone down a little, because there may be minors reading the forums.

I'm more than worried about relationships, because of so many failed cases. I am surprised that you believe in karma as well.  I don't hate those girls anymore, because they were socially-conditioned to think this way. It's empowering to know that you believe in me.

Thanks so much! I will not listen to others' unbelievable expectations anymore.


----------



## Female INFJ (Feb 27, 2010)

Athena Avril 

You'll be fine that was my feeling. Are you moving to another country?


----------



## RandomNote (Apr 10, 2013)

Athena Avril said:


> Me too! I have been solitary (except for family) for the last 4 months, recuperating from exhaustion after finishing my course and "licking my wounds". I still use the internet, but have not contacted many people online until recently.
> 
> Do you mean that you are studying Jung typology, enneagram, etc to know more about myself? As for me, my ex-boyfriend (online) recommended me to this site to understand myself better. I have to say that it's a good opportunity for me.
> 
> That's wise advice for the both of us. I wonder about that a lot as well, and have just started seriously considering what I want to do with the rest of my life.


No ive only just found out about this personality stuff rather recently. What i did was very simple and basic.....i just started thinking about everything.......myself, my experiences, life, history, the world, everything i could think of i thought of. For 2 years ive done this and ive still haven't fully figured myself out but ive gotten closer. I have yet to really figure out what i want in life so i must continue thinking on it further.....(sigh)....it never ends. Anyway hope you have better luck than ive had with figuring yourself out better.


----------



## Aquamarine (Jul 24, 2011)

RandomNote said:


> No ive only just found out about this personality stuff rather recently. What i did was very simple and basic.....i just started thinking about everything.......myself, my experiences, life, history, the world, everything i could think of i thought of. For 2 years ive done this and ive still haven't fully figured myself out but ive gotten closer. I have yet to really figure out what i want in life so i must continue thinking on it further.....(sigh)....it never ends. Anyway hope you have better luck than ive had with figuring yourself out better.


You may need to spend more time before discovering yourself. Keep doing research to get to know yourself better.

Thank you, I've been trying to figure out myself for quite a while, and I am closer to the goal but not quite there yet.


----------



## BarryO (Mar 13, 2013)

Athena Avril said:


> I've heard of successful love stories of couples meeting via internet dating. On the other hand, there are plenty of cases of getting scammed by their online lovers as well. I am going to spend a lot of time sifting through replies and practice a lot of caution.
> 
> I have tried internet dating before (not in dating websites), and had one bad encounter and two good ones, so I can see your point there.
> 
> By the way, your insults don't seem to be working. :wink:


Im giving you advice that a lot of guys get, but few girl do. Its "stop complaining" and change it! The stupid part is actually just how you come to your conclusions. Yes people get scammed, RELATIVE, to how many don't. Its like saying im not going to fly an commercial airline because it might crash, but I have no problem riding a motorcycle. The odds of an airline crashing are extremely low, etc.....

Just get a cat


----------



## Aquamarine (Jul 24, 2011)

BarryO said:


> Im giving you advice that a lot of guys get, but few girl do. Its "stop complaining" and change it! The stupid part is actually just how you come to your conclusions. Yes people get scammed, RELATIVE, to how many don't. Its like saying im not going to fly an commercial airline because it might crash, but I have no problem riding a motorcycle. The odds of an airline crashing are extremely low, etc.....
> 
> Just get a cat


I get your point, and I am just stating the possibility.

I am not very fond of cats, so I don't get what you're trying to tell me. I sure am hoping that you are not trolling.


----------



## strangestdude (Dec 8, 2011)

Athena Avril said:


> I get your point, and I am just stating the possibility.
> 
> I am not very fond of cats, so I don't get what you're trying to tell me. I sure am hoping that you are not trolling.


He is a troll. He hasn't made a single serious post.


----------



## Aquamarine (Jul 24, 2011)

strangestdude said:


> He is a troll. He hasn't made a single serious post.


I know he's trolling, and yet he makes some sense at the same time.

If his attempts of trolling me amounts to anything, all he is doing is confusing me.


----------



## RandomNote (Apr 10, 2013)

Why dont you like cats they're great......well they're little stuck up bastards but they're easy to take care of so it makes them good pets.


----------



## Jwing24 (Aug 2, 2010)

Athena Avril said:


> Good point there. My friends who are paired up seldom come complaining to me, but it's those single girls who are making fun of me because I am single. Perhaps a better analogy would be "a pot calling a kettle black".
> 
> I like the freedom as well. If society doesn't have a requirement on having a relationship, I would date and marry when I want to, not when I am supposed to do it.


You have a point there, I have almost no friends, so there aren't many people around me who can poke fun at me.


----------



## Aquamarine (Jul 24, 2011)

Jwing24 said:


> You have a point there, I have almost no friends, so there aren't many people around me who can poke fun at me.


I don't think that I have intentionally raised that point, so I'm sorry if I did. :blushed:

I do have quite a few friends, though I consider them to be acquaintances instead, as I am not close to them.

What you said reminded me of a quote from one of my previous replies. 'It's better to be alone than to be with people who make you lonely.' I like that quote a lot and it makes lots of sense.


----------



## Aquamarine (Jul 24, 2011)

RandomNote said:


> Why dont you like cats they're great......well they're little stuck up bastards but they're easy to take care of so it makes them good pets.


It's not that I dislike any animal (as long as it's not harmful) in particular, but I don't see myself keeping a pet.

On a side note, I can't get the relation between cats and the topic of this conversation. I never specifically stated that I like cats, so I don't even know where he's coming from when he told me to get a cat.


----------



## RandomNote (Apr 10, 2013)

Athena Avril said:


> It's not that I dislike any animal (as long as it's not harmful) in particular, but I don't see myself keeping a pet.
> 
> On a side note, I can't get the relation between cats and the topic of this conversation. I never specifically stated that I like cats, so I don't even know where he's coming from when he told me to get a cat.


Lonely women get cats which if left lonely they become a crazy cat lady with multiple cats so basically get a cat since your lonely so you can direct your affection at it.......or something like that. Basically a joke for single women.


----------



## Aquamarine (Jul 24, 2011)

RandomNote said:


> Lonely women get cats which if left lonely they become a crazy cat lady with multiple cats so basically get a cat since your lonely so you can direct your affection at it.......or something like that. Basically a joke for single women.


Oh, I see. Looks like another failed attempt from the troll!


----------



## Up and Away (Mar 5, 2011)

Responding to your thread title, just say you are talking to a guy and working on whatever issue you think you have *shrugs


----------



## Zster (Mar 7, 2011)

I don't have time to read through everything, and so am only answering the title line of this thread: how to stop people treating you like a failure for being single? Two points, you have no control over what others do. I recommend not wasting any energy trying. Also, who says being single = failure? Entering marriage when the divorce rate is over 50% could be viewed as the dumber decision, if you ask me. MANY of us are single because it suits us, or because we had no choice, or a good one has yet to come along. Today there is no stigma (where I come from, anyway) about singlehood. With folks of all ages divorcing, at any point in time, there are singles of both genders and of all ages. It's ridiculous to be judgemental about it.

FWIW, I am single due to being widowed. Some wish I would "be decent" and remarry. I have many reasons for not, good reasons.

Also, a young friend of mine (nearly 31) JUST got engaged. He enjoyed his life until he met the right person. It took that long. I would dare not suggest that he was any sort of failure for waiting. He met the love of his life by being smart and patient.

And not everyone needs to pair up. Living single is a very acceptable and valid lifestyle.

So, I guess another answer to the question might just be: "when YOU stop believing that being single is a failure".

take it or leave it, just my momentary opinion...


----------



## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

I understand where you're coming from. I am half-Asian (Indian). The best thing would be to focus on your goals, achievements, your own happiness. Fuck people. They'll keep barking, and the more they know it affects you, the harder they'll push you. Deciding to be single doesn't make you a loser. But, believing a person's (woman specifically here) worth is tied in with their ability to snag a man by a certain age is decidedly misogynistic and backward thinking. I urge you to laugh at it for the ridiculousness it entails. Let no one make you feel unattractive or unworthy. I am the kind of person who has actively chosen to be single many times. Why?

1. I was busy focusing on my academic and professional goals. Haven't got time for a man when so much shit needs to be done in my own life. 


2. I am highly selective about the men I date, and the fact that my self-esteem doesn't rest on male attention speaks of my high self-esteem and self-confidence.

Also, see, I don't care what society thinks about my relationship status. It's nobody's business but my own. 

Again, fuck social pressure and hypocritical social expectations. Do your best in life, and when you're ready to date, go ahead and take the plunge. If you do it because you feel forced by social pressures or because dating will somehow exonerate you from the stupid "loser" tag, you're not doing it for the right reasons. You need to enjoy the process, and you will when you're ready. Not dating takes nothing away from your attractiveness and your attractiveness as a partner. You're no failure. Set your own standards. Don't measure yourself against 'society's yardstick. You'll be a happier woman.


----------



## Aquamarine (Jul 24, 2011)

Zster said:


> I don't have time to read through everything, and so am only answering the title line of this thread: how to stop people treating you like a failure for being single? Two points, you have no control over what others do. I recommend not wasting any energy trying. Also, who says being single = failure? Entering marriage when the divorce rate is over 50% could be viewed as the dumber decision, if you ask me. MANY of us are single because it suits us, or because we had no choice, or a good one has yet to come along. Today there is no stigma (where I come from, anyway) about singlehood. With folks of all ages divorcing, at any point in time, there are singles of both genders and of all ages. It's ridiculous to be judgemental about it.
> 
> FWIW, I am single due to being widowed. Some wish I would "be decent" and remarry. I have many reasons for not, good reasons.
> 
> ...


Yes, the title sums up everything that I said.

Believe it or not, there are people who think this way, and pressure others into think the same way as them. There's where the stigma come from. I would not say that I am against marriage or relationships, but all I know is that now is hardly the best time for me to commit. I may reconsider if I meet someone suitable right now, but I would still hope that he would wait until I am ready.

My sincere condolences to you. What I have learned from previous replies is that those people who expect you to behave in a way (to remarry in your case) may not be correct, because it's your life and you know better.

I applaud your friend for his patience. I am skeptical of "the right person", but I believe that there are several people that may be compatible to a person, and one must choose carefully.

I appreciate your advice, thank you once again.


----------



## Aquamarine (Jul 24, 2011)

Boss said:


> I understand where you're coming from. I am half-Asian (Indian). The best thing would be to focus on your goals, achievements, your own happiness. Fuck people. They'll keep barking, and the more they know it affects you, the harder they'll push you. Deciding to be single doesn't make you a loser. But, believing a person's (woman specifically here) worth is tied in with their ability to snag a man by a certain age is decidedly misogynistic and backward thinking. I urge you to laugh at it for the ridiculousness it entails. Let no one make you feel unattractive or unworthy. I am the kind of person who has actively chosen to be single many times. Why?
> 
> 1. I was busy focusing on my academic and professional goals. Haven't got time for a man when so much shit needs to be done in my own life.
> 
> ...


I am glad that you understand where I'm coming from, and thank you for your encouragement.

I wouldn't say that I actively choose to be single. It's due to being tied down by other commitments and still am not financially stable, so I can't commit. I am not very selective of choosing a partner, but I wouldn't take any guy that comes because I still have my requirements.

That was why I have been reconsidering who my real friends are recently. I didn't find any one of them worth keeping as a friend, because all of them expect me to conform in one way or another. (Eg. clothes I wear, how I behave, how I think, etc.) It's pretty hard to find anybody who's willing to accept me for who I am, unfortunately.


----------



## RandomNote (Apr 10, 2013)

Athena Avril said:


> That was why I have been reconsidering who my real friends are recently. I didn't find any one of them worth keeping as a friend, because all of them expect me to conform in one way or another. (Eg. clothes I wear, how I behave, how I think, etc.) It's pretty hard to find anybody who's willing to accept me for who I am, unfortunately.


Don't worry you'll find people wiling to accept you as you, its a big world with lots a people just give it time and some effort. There is a way to get others to accept you but.......i dont think it will work for you........it works for some not all.


----------



## Aquamarine (Jul 24, 2011)

RandomNote said:


> Don't worry you'll find people wiling to accept you as you, its a big world with lots a people just give it time and some effort. There is a way to get others to accept you but.......i dont think it will work for you........it works for some not all.


What way are you referring to?


----------



## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

Athena Avril said:


> I am glad that you understand where I'm coming from, and thank you for your encouragement.
> 
> I wouldn't say that I actively choose to be single. It's due to being tied down by other commitments and still am not financially stable, so I can't commit. I am not very selective of choosing a partner, but I wouldn't take any guy that comes because I still have my requirements.
> 
> That was why I have been reconsidering who my real friends are recently. I didn't find any one of them worth keeping as a friend, because all of them expect me to conform in one way or another. (Eg. clothes I wear, how I behave, how I think, etc.) It's pretty hard to find anybody who's willing to accept me for who I am, unfortunately.


You're most welcome. If our cultures are any similar, I am entirely familiar with the pressures you describe. It can be a real pain in the ass. I chose to be single at various points for the same reasons as you. I needed to be financially stable and have certain life goals in order before I plunge into a relationship. I have been in one for a few years though, and it was worth the wait. 

And yeah, it really is difficult to find people who appreciate you for you and accept you fully. I hope you will find friends who will be able to provide you more respect and acceptance.


----------



## RetroVortex (Aug 14, 2012)

Boss said:


> You're most welcome. If our cultures are similar, I am entire familiar with the pressures you describe. It can be a real pain in the ass. I chose to be single at various points for the same reasons as you. I needed to be financially stable and have certain life goals in order before I plunge into a relationship. I have been in one for a few years though, and it was worth the wait.
> 
> And yeah, it really is difficult to find people who appreciate you for you and accept you fully. I hope you will find friends who will be able to provide you more respect and acceptance.


Hell Yeah! I mean my older brother, (who is a really nasty piece of work), constantly rags on about how much of a loser I am, because I don't have loads of friends like he has, but you know what? My best friend is worth a million of his so called friends.

He actually CARES about me. We can have fun AND talk about serious stuff too. We freely share almost everything with each other, and I am perfectly comfortable with his intentions.

You see, that, that is what being a true friend is all about. And I'd love more of them, who wouldn't? But let's be honest here, its rare to find people like that. Most people are shallow and self-serving, (at least in my experience), and I don't want to have people like that in my life, to build up a false wall of security. I DON'T need that. I can take care of myself just fine. And quite frankly I don't care what people like that think about me. They aren't worth my time and attention. I keep them at arm's length.


----------



## Aquamarine (Jul 24, 2011)

Boss said:


> You're most welcome. If our cultures are any similar, I am entirely familiar with the pressures you describe. It can be a real pain in the ass. I chose to be single at various points for the same reasons as you. I needed to be financially stable and have certain life goals in order before I plunge into a relationship. I have been in one for a few years though, and it was worth the wait.
> 
> And yeah, it really is difficult to find people who appreciate you for you and accept you fully. I hope you will find friends who will be able to provide you more respect and acceptance.


The Chinese culture have a strong emphasis on matrimony as well. I suppose that's the main reason why people choose to be single. Congratulations to you! 

Thank you for your well-wishes!


----------



## RandomNote (Apr 10, 2013)

Athena Avril said:


> What way are you referring to?


Im not sure what ya saying here.


----------



## Aquamarine (Jul 24, 2011)

Master Wolf said:


> Responding to your thread title, just say you are talking to a guy and working on whatever issue you think you have *shrugs


That's all right. Thank you.


----------



## Aquamarine (Jul 24, 2011)

RandomNote said:


> Im not sure what ya saying here.


You were talking about a way for me to get accepted by others, which does not always work for everybody.

I am curious about what it is.


----------



## paperbrain (Jan 4, 2013)

Firstly, you are not pathetic. And you are sure as hell not a loser. Stop saying you are. And stop thinking you’re going to be single forever. That’s absurd. You will love again and you will not be single forever. And your “rant” wasn’t long. It was concise and honest. Never apologize…ever. 

Now, let’s see if we can work our way through this. Firstly you are an INTJ female which as you know makes you exceedingly rare taking up something like 0.8% of the general population. Do you really think an exceedingly rare INTJ female is best suited to mate the general population? No. Men in the general population are not good enough for you. They are programmed to date lesser females, play games and bore the hell out of you. An INTJ female is higher up the food chain. You’ve been programmed to believe you are a failure because the rest of the world does not understand you so they have labeled you wrong because the overwhelming majority of them do not have your futuristic intuition or your sensory perception sensitivity which allows you to better strategize than most people. You actually use a slightly higher percentage of your brain than the average person. There is more activity in your brain than almost eighty percent of the population especially in planning and strategy. You are not a loser. You are exceptional and we will get to more of that in a moment. People don’t like you because you see through them. INTJ’s see right through people and because most people are highly flawed and they don’t like being figured out especially as quickly and uncannily as we are capable of analyzing them. They try to point out your vulnerabilities because they sense you have seen theirs. And they are right you have. So they call you aloof and cold and a lot of other bullshit because they are afraid of you even if they only realize it subconsciously. 

You need an unusual man and you may have to look for a diamond in the rough. This is to say you may have to look more for potential than finished product. You most likely need someone as rare as you are and that may not be as easy to find because they are probably going through the same thing you are and neither ofyou may be social by nature. If you both just give up neither of you is going to find the other. And if you don’t find each other average people will breed instead of you and instead of getting a brilliant child who might change the world we’re going to end up being overrun with more average people who can’t change or improve anything. They’ll just end up coming up with more worthless processes than we already have in order to attempt to stop change. We are already about one thousand years behind because of the dark ages brought about by average people who were idiots who hated science and logic and progression. Let’s not slip any more. It’s not a matter of you think your too pathetic to date or breed. It is that you must date and you must breed. You have a responsibility here. You must build a better world both by your own hand and by the hands of your offspring. 

Now, you say you have achievements and people don’t respect them. Your achievements and what you do well are the first steps in reaching your goal of finding someone. You may not think so but they are. The very first thing you need to focus on is whatever it is you do well. What do you excel in? What do you love to do more than anything else? Whatever it is you love to do, do it more. Find a way to love it even more than you do now and focus and practice it. This is your first step to conquering your low self-esteem and possibly meeting someone who is best suited for you. I would like to meet the asshole who told you you’d never marry. I’d like to grab the back of their neck and repeatedly smash their face into a table. They deserve nothing short of unbearable mind numbing pain. They will amount to nothing in this world; nothing. You have a chance at greatness. Take your chance. If you feel you are cold and icy now diving into what you love will help get some of your ability to be easy going back. 

You must not allow yourself to be afraid to fall in love. This will only come back to bite you in the ass and you’ll end up bitter and angry and sad and empty. You’re going to have to be vulnerable with the right person. You’re going to have to let someone in because an INTJ needs someone they can love and trust to bounce ideas off of. You need this. You may not think you do, but you do. However, this time change one thing when looking for a suitor; find a man who is willing to be in an equal relationship with you so you can remain in control of the situation. You sound like you have been dating men who don’t let you have enough control and they certainly aren’t providing you help with self-esteem. INTJ women need to have control in a relationship. They need someone who is not a father figure. Father figures are death to INTJ women. No father figures ever! Look for someone who is more like a brother, an equal. INTJ women don’t need to control the other person they are in arelationship with but they need to feel like they are allowed to do whatever they do best and be themselves and be loved for it. I’m betting this is a large part of why your relationships fail. The guy didn’t let you have enough control. You need a nice guy who respects you but is also willing to stand toe to toe with you. Someone who will not back down but let you have your freedom and who respects your need to work on what you love and let you be you without changing or controlling who you are. And when you find this man and you will, be kind to him. It is not easy for a man to date an INTJ female, even a man who is strong enough for the job.

If you think you are going to live up to societies expectations, forget it. It isn’t going to happen. You were not designed to live up to societies expectations. You were designed to change them. And if you don’t believe it, look at Jane Austin, Ayn Rand and Betty Friedan just to name a few. You are not meant to conform. You are meant to alter the way things are done and find a new and better way. The world is mostly made up of artisans and guardians and they don’t like change. There are far less rationals and idealists. This is because it takes less of us to change the world. Look at the television show “Mad Men” and look at how far women have come from a relatively short amount of time. Did that happen because of people conforming? No it came from radical change. Are you starting to understand how important you are yet? I certainly hope so.

Do not give into peer pressure. Obviously it didn’t make you happy the first time you tried now did it? Don’t listen to your peers because quite frankly they aren’t your peers. They are just the same age you are. They are simply not in the same ballpark with you. And the people who are consist of a small group. 

I understand you don’t like to talk about your feelings. I don’t either. I have to be able to trust the person I’m telling them to because I recognize that though we are all human we are not the same and how INTJ’s think and feel is different and we express ourselves in a different manner. When I’ve posted in other threads I often come back to the same thing which is women should consider dating men who are willing to be their friend first. I think this is especially important with INTJ women. Date a guy who is willing to be your friend first. Start with a friendship because then you can see if he is trustworthy. If he is, take it a small step further and a small step further after that if your intuition tells you to. And you may have to get brave again and be the one who makes the first move towards changing the status of the relationship.

You are an INTJ and you don’t want to end up alone. That right there means you’re not going to. I’ll wish you the best of luck but you really don’t need it. You are capable of making your own luck.


----------



## RandomNote (Apr 10, 2013)

First off this should only be used if you don't care if people hate you. Basically you can impose your will on them to accept you as you are......the down side is you tend to get hated that's why i said it probably wouldn't work for you since i doubt you want to be hated. Its a pretty barbaric way of getting others to accept you......i did it and it worked but i wasn't a very liked person not that i cared but its still not the best method. Its kinda hard to get others to accept you unless they're an openly accepting person. Probably not what you are looking for but since you asked.......that's pretty much it.


----------



## Aquamarine (Jul 24, 2011)

paperbrain said:


> Firstly, you are not pathetic. And you are sure as hell not a loser. Stop saying you are. And stop thinking you’re going to be single forever. That’s absurd. You will love again and you will not be single forever. And your “rant” wasn’t long. It was concise and honest. Never apologize…ever.
> 
> Now, let’s see if we can work our way through this. Firstly you are an INTJ female which as you know makes you exceedingly rare taking up something like 0.8% of the general population. Do you really think an exceedingly rare INTJ female is best suited to mate the general population? No. Men in the general population are not good enough for you. They are programmed to date lesser females, play games and bore the hell out of you. An INTJ female is higher up the food chain. You’ve been programmed to believe you are a failure because the rest of the world does not understand you so they have labeled you wrong because the overwhelming majority of them do not have your futuristic intuition or your sensory perception sensitivity which allows you to better strategize than most people. You actually use a slightly higher percentage of your brain than the average person. There is more activity in your brain than almost eighty percent of the population especially in planning and strategy. You are not a loser. You are exceptional and we will get to more of that in a moment. People don’t like you because you see through them. INTJ’s see right through people and because most people are highly flawed and they don’t like being figured out especially as quickly and uncannily as we are capable of analyzing them. They try to point out your vulnerabilities because they sense you have seen theirs. And they are right you have. So they call you aloof and cold and a lot of other bullshit because they are afraid of you even if they only realize it subconsciously.
> 
> ...


I've read everything, and your post has been very motivational to me, making me feel special. You can be a great motivational speaker. 

As for the fools who called me a loser, I have no plans of retaliation. They were socially conditioned to think like the masses, and they are probably jealous because they are older than me and are studying at the same level as I do (I'm not bragging).

It's true that INTJs are rare (especially females) and I have yet to meet another INTJ in real life.

If you don't mind, I have another question: Based on your analysis, not every person is suitable to date an INTJ. Which personality types do you think it the most suitable to be with an INTJ?

Thank you so much for your moral support. :happy:


----------



## Aquamarine (Jul 24, 2011)

RandomNote said:


> First off this should only be used if you don't care if people hate you. Basically you can impose your will on them to accept you as you are......the down side is you tend to get hated that's why i said it probably wouldn't work for you since i doubt you want to be hated. Its a pretty barbaric way of getting others to accept you......i did it and it worked but i wasn't a very liked person not that i cared but its still not the best method. Its kinda hard to get others to accept you unless they're an openly accepting person. Probably not what you are looking for but since you asked.......that's pretty much it.


It sounds like I need to be a dictator for that to happen. That's not going to happen any day!


----------



## RandomNote (Apr 10, 2013)

Athena Avril said:


> It sounds like I need to be a dictator for that to happen. That's not going to happen any day!


Yeah i don't recommend it.......would be nice if there were easier methods that didn't involve conforming in some way.


----------



## Aquamarine (Jul 24, 2011)

RandomNote said:


> I can vouch for it being unhealthy but it has its benefits....but im not entirely negative.....just when it comes to people. I agree i can trust its just very difficult for me to do so. On a side note only up to "trustworthiness" on your reply showed until i started the quote reply message.


If it protects you from getting hurt, I can consider it a benefit, in a sense. 

I just edited the post, that's why. Thanks for letting me know.


----------



## RandomNote (Apr 10, 2013)

Athena Avril said:


> If it protects you from getting hurt, I can consider it a benefit, in a sense.
> 
> I just edited the post, that's why. Thanks for letting me know.


Well that's not its only benefit protections just a bonus.


----------



## Mr Bouncerverse (Mar 30, 2013)

You shouldn't base your value on your lack of relationships. Look, I have that same fear. I'll be twenty next month and I've only dated one girl. That didn't last long. However, that's not all there is to life. You need to work on finding something that provides you with stability, and no, it can't be a person or a thing, because actuality changes. You need to develop meaning, and yes, you need to tear down that emotional wall. I think you're afraid you're going to get hurt again, and it's possible. But that conflict is never going to go away unless you deal with it. I think you also feel like if you let your guard down you'll become blinded. That's not the case. Stay aware, but not paranoid.

Hope everything works out.


----------



## Aquamarine (Jul 24, 2011)

Mr Bouncerverse said:


> You shouldn't base your value on your lack of relationships. Look, I have that same fear. I'll be twenty next month and I've only dated one girl. That didn't last long. However, that's not all there is to life. You need to work on finding something that provides you with stability, and no, it can't be a person or a thing, because actuality changes. You need to develop meaning, and yes, you need to tear down that emotional wall. I think you're afraid you're going to get hurt again, and it's possible. But that conflict is never going to go away unless you deal with it. I think you also feel like if you let your guard down you'll become blinded. That's not the case. Stay aware, but not paranoid.
> 
> Hope everything works out.


Well, crossing the emotional wall is the hardest part for me. If you're referring to finding meaning in life, I am not able to get a satisfactory answer to that, so I've concluded that life in itself is meaningless. In terms of my love life, I have accepted my situation.

Yes, that's exactly why I am scared of tearing down the wall. The other thing is that people tend to betray my trust in them, and that's why I hesitate in placing trust on anything or anyone.

Thank you for your advice.


----------



## Mr Bouncerverse (Mar 30, 2013)

Athena Avril said:


> Well, crossing the emotional wall is the hardest part for me. If you're referring to finding meaning in life, I am not able to get a satisfactory answer to that, so I've concluded that life in itself is meaningless. In terms of my love life, I have accepted my situation.
> 
> Yes, that's exactly why I am scared of tearing down the wall. The other thing is that people tend to betray my trust in them, and that's why I hesitate in placing trust on anything or anyone.
> 
> Thank you for your advice.


Well of course there's no objective meaning in life (unless you're religious, in which case you may believe there is). See, the thing about meaning is that it's abstract. There is no object or anything else in actuality that has actual meaning. We give meaning to our lives ourselves. 

Think of a wedding, for example. Most people would probably consider their wedding day the most important day of their life. But what is a wedding, actually? It's just an event where people dress up and rings are exchanged. If today you were told you had to marry a random person, it wouldn't have any meaning. The meaning comes from all the days before the wedding, all the warm memories, the journey to the wedding. 

You get what I'm saying? I often have trouble explaining myself. 

This example may be making you lonelier because I'm talking about meaning coming from a person and you're single, but let me clarify. No object, no person, can give you meaning. We give life to things. I think you're sad because you feel like you're not going to have any meaning in your life unless prince charming comes in and you fall in love with him.

You said something about people branding your value based on your relationship status...FUCK THAT.

Again, meaning is abstract. Someone saying you are worthless does not make you worthless. You need to focus on what you value in yourself instead of what other people value in you and what you value in the outside world.

Just my opinion. Again, I'm really bad at explaining myself, so sorry if you don't understand it.


----------



## RandomNote (Apr 10, 2013)

Athena Avril said:


> Well, crossing the emotional wall is the hardest part for me. If you're referring to finding meaning in life, I am not able to get a satisfactory answer to that, so I've concluded that life in itself is meaningless. In terms of my love life, I have accepted my situation.
> 
> Yes, that's exactly why I am scared of tearing down the wall. The other thing is that people tend to betray my trust in them, and that's why I hesitate in placing trust on anything or anyone.
> 
> Thank you for your advice.


I wouldn't go as far as you in the meaning even though i considered that as well. The problem with the meaning is people want it to be grandiose and if they cant find the super impressive version or for other reasons(there are many reasons) they get dejected, concluding that life is worthless or meaningless. The meaning of life i found after years of thinking and considering is......(drum roll)....live.....just live. That's all you have to do just live.......everything does it and almost everything wants to do it. Well that concludes my answer on the meaning of life (acting a part) "We hoped you enjoyed your flight short as it was and we hope you come enjoy our airlines again have a good day."

I would of said something on the emotions and love life stuff but......im not very good in that area so i couldn't come up with anything useful.


----------



## Aquamarine (Jul 24, 2011)

RandomNote said:


> I wouldn't go as far as you in the meaning even though i considered that as well. The problem with the meaning is people want it to be grandiose and if they cant find the super impressive version or for other reasons(there are many reasons) they get dejected, concluding that life is worthless or meaningless. The meaning of life i found after years of thinking and considering is......(drum roll)....live.....just live. That's all you have to do just live.......everything does it and almost everything wants to do it. Well that concludes my answer on the meaning of life (acting a part) "We hoped you enjoyed your flight short as it was and we hope you come enjoy our airlines again have a good day."
> 
> I would of said something on the emotions and love life stuff but......im not very good in that area so i couldn't come up with anything useful.


I'm partly hoping that the meaning of my life will be something important as well, but even if the real meaning of it is simply to give others warmth and comfort, I will take it.

That's an interesting and lighthearted take on the meaning of life. I like that. 

I was actually referring to something like "Why are we here?" kind of question. I just can't find a satisfactory answer to that.

That's all right with me.


----------



## Aquamarine (Jul 24, 2011)

Mr Bouncerverse said:


> Well of course there's no objective meaning in life (unless you're religious, in which case you may believe there is). See, the thing about meaning is that it's abstract. There is no object or anything else in actuality that has actual meaning. We give meaning to our lives ourselves.
> 
> Think of a wedding, for example. Most people would probably consider their wedding day the most important day of their life. But what is a wedding, actually? It's just an event where people dress up and rings are exchanged. If today you were told you had to marry a random person, it wouldn't have any meaning. The meaning comes from all the days before the wedding, all the warm memories, the journey to the wedding.
> 
> ...


I get what you're trying to say.

I'm agnostic, and that's why I find the religious explanation to the meaning of life unsuitable for me. Well, now you understand why I find that life is meaningless as it is.

I don't enjoy any celebrations or memories much (I used to be sentimental, but I've lost it as I mature.) and that's why I don't understand the purpose of it. Everything, including festivities and memories, are just "dust in the wind". It's just a waste of money and time.

Hmm, you probably don't understand an INTJ much. I don't mind so much of the loneliness and I don't bother with going about and seeking a meaning for something. However, I still hurt because there's a wound that's about to heal, but people keep rubbing salt on it instead of leaving it alone. I am emotionless most of the time, but I can still feel.

Maybe I'm being nihilistic, that's why I don't value anything or anyone much.

You explained everything well, so don't worry about it.


----------



## Female INFJ (Feb 27, 2010)

Hello all.

This topic is good maybe others can add? I'm interested in knowing how I can feel less isolated and valuable still, even if I'm not in a relationship? I'm going to be one of those single old ladies. I kind of worry about it sometimes. But often my fears turn into reality, so I just kind of survive. Is there more than survival in this?


----------



## Female INFJ (Feb 27, 2010)

My parents are going to be very ashamed of me as I get older because I don't have a partner. Maybe soon, I won't have a place to live!


----------



## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

To me you are doing this the wrong way.
You need to sit down and define what type of person you would be comfortable being in a relationship with.
This isn't about picking the next looser, but screening for *"mr right for you"*.

Then you need to *stop confessing that you are single to bullies*.
Learn to spot bullies.

Once that is done, you should redefine being single from a negative label to a neutral fact.
You are the one who feel bad about the label.
The bullies pick up on that *you feel bad about it* and bully you over it.
If you didn't feel bad about it, they wouldn't bother, and if they did bother you wouldn't care.
You caring is central here. (*They would bully you over anything as long as you cared*)
That and spending time with potential bullies.

I would advice you to build a network of *trustworthy friends first*.
Then when you have solid people who aren't judgemental, then you go out and screen for "mr right for you".

I don't believe that you are unattractive.
I've seen guys fall for all kinds of girls, sure some guys won't be attracted to you,
but just as it doesn't matter that I'm not attracted to most of my friends girlfriends,
they are attracted to them, and that is all that matters.

I hope you don't take offence from my direct tone.
But the take you had on this really irked me. :-/
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Now that was my response to your opening post.



> Hmm, you probably don't understand an INTJ much. I don't mind so much of the loneliness and I don't bother with going about and seeking a meaning for something. However, I still hurt because there's a wound that's about to heal, but people keep rubbing salt on it instead of leaving it alone. I am emotionless most of the time, but I can still feel.


I don't believe that you don't mind the loneliness.
I do believe you feel, and feel a lot.
You seem to have a long process of healing in front of you.
And focusing on a potential future mate really isn't what you should be looking for right now.
You need to find out how you can find trustworthy friends long before that.
In the shape you present yourself now you are not fit for dating.

I dunno how much you have looked into the practical application of MBTI,
but it is a great tool for spotting people who will be likely to clash or go over well with you.


----------



## RandomNote (Apr 10, 2013)

Athena Avril said:


> I'm partly hoping that the meaning of my life will be something important as well, but even if the real meaning of it is simply to give others warmth and comfort, I will take it.
> 
> That's an interesting and lighthearted take on the meaning of life. I like that.
> 
> ...


Well the meaning i used is mostly for all life in general not just humans. Individuals meaning in life is something they decide for themselves since humans are always so needlessly complicated. As for the why are we here question, humans always consider themselves special and more important as to have some divine purpose for existing. When its likely that we exist just out of coincidence, most wont believe this cause they refuse to think humans are not special in someway but everyone's entitled to their own views and what not.


----------



## Aquamarine (Jul 24, 2011)

RandomNote said:


> Well the meaning i used is mostly for all life in general not just humans. Individuals meaning in life is something they decide for themselves since humans are always so needlessly complicated. As for the why are we here question, humans always consider themselves special and more important as to have some divine purpose for existing. When its likely that we exist just out of coincidence, most wont believe this cause they refuse to think humans are not special in someway but everyone's entitled to their own views and what not.


You're right. I guess that I'm thinking too much about the metaphysical approach.


----------



## RandomNote (Apr 10, 2013)

Athena Avril said:


> You're right. I guess that I'm thinking too much about the metaphysical approach.


I kinda got off topic for this thread.......my bad it happens form time to time with me. Also thinking too much isnt a bad thing its useful to do every now and again.


----------



## Aquamarine (Jul 24, 2011)

RandomNote said:


> I kinda got off topic for this thread.......my bad it happens form time to time with me. Also thinking too much isnt a bad thing its useful to do every now and again.


No problem, because this is my thread. Yes, I find overthinking to be useful in figuring things out sometimes.


----------



## Aquamarine (Jul 24, 2011)

Female INFJ said:


> Hello all.
> 
> This topic is good maybe others can add? I'm interested in knowing how I can feel less isolated and valuable still, even if I'm not in a relationship? I'm going to be one of those single old ladies. I kind of worry about it sometimes. But often my fears turn into reality, so I just kind of survive. Is there more than survival in this?


Hi, thanks for joining in. I am not sure on how to shake off the feeling of being isolated, because I hardly feel it unless people are deliberately isolating me. As for feeling valuable, there's a lot of advice here, so just scroll back. It's not healthy for you to base your self-worth with your relationship status.


----------



## PlacentaCake (Jun 14, 2012)

<3 Don't build a wall around your heart. I learned too that rejection can happen, but I think the problem is more about cognitive functions. We have Fi and I believe have a tendency to fall for people faster than they will fall for us. I've found this true in my own life when I've fallen head over heals for guys in the first week of getting to know them (even if I didn't admit it to myself). As an INTJ female, just understand that most of the world thinks and processes things differently than you. I know how it feels to be a wallflower, be picked on, and what it is like to be made fun of. Anyway, most of my life I struggled with exactly what you are talking about; the rejection and then closing off my heart.

My story:

After I fell extremely ill and nearly died 3 years ago, my perspective took a 180. I came close to death and I realize that both a) not wearing my heart on my sleeve and b) closing myself off emotionally was not getting me anywhere. I decided to suck it up and just realize that rejection will happen. If it does, well at least I let them know how I felt, which (I hate to be morbid) is better than being on your death bed wondering how your life would have been different if you had just told the people you were into how you felt, instead of closing yourself off emotionally and being cold. 

With all that said, I'm not saying it is easy. Since wearing my heart on my sleeve, I've realized how tender I actually am  and it has really taken some getting used to. I dunno, I really understand where you are coming from and I feel for you. Be confident in yourself and continue do the things you are interested in/focus on your life. Also, don't listen to those bitches who made fun of you! They are just insecure themselves. I think a lot of insecurity comes from the societies we live in and the ridiculous standards that are placed on women...but that is a whole different topic for another day.


----------



## Aquamarine (Jul 24, 2011)

hornet said:


> To me you are doing this the wrong way.
> You need to sit down and define what type of person you would be comfortable being in a relationship with.
> This isn't about picking the next looser, but screening for *"mr right for you"*.
> 
> ...


I'm pretty much done with those bullies, and am quite sure that I know how to spot a bully in the future. That was in the past now, so my apathy towards their opinion can be helpful to me.

I've had many friends whom I thought of as "trustworthy", and the final result is that I get betrayed every time I let my guard down. They probably take me for a fool, or I might look like one in their eyes. :dry:

I don't know about you, but I find it unbelievable that some total jerks are able to get hitched, and I'm not a total jerk (I can be one if someone pi**es me off) and I can't even get anyone. The irony. The only attraction that I get from guys are from online and some creeps in real life. (Someone earlier mentioned about shy guys who has never confessed their love, but I'm skeptical that I have any secret admirers.) I'm apprehensive of meeting online friends in real life, but I might consider making an exception if the person on the other end is very honest, straightforward and not a potential bad influence to my life.

I don't mind about your tone, so no worries.

I just don't give a hoot about the loneliness, or I might have just become used to it. I have been lonely for the majority of the last 20 years, and I am still alive and kicking. As for my feelings, I just accept it as part of me instead of suppressing it, and it's all good for me. 
I guess that I did the right thing to quit dating.

I have noticed some MBTI types are more likely than others to pick on me, but I just want to keep an open mind to people because not everyone is bad. I suppose it's better for me to just stay away from those specific types in the future.


----------



## RandomNote (Apr 10, 2013)

Athena Avril said:


> I'm pretty much done with those bullies, and am quite sure that I know how to spot a bully in the future. That was in the past now, so my apathy towards their opinion can be helpful to me.
> 
> I've had many friends whom I thought of as "trustworthy", and the final result is that I get betrayed every time I let my guard down. They probably take me for a fool, or I might look like one in their eyes. :dry:
> 
> ...


You shouldn't quit dating your still to young for that, you still have plenty of time.....well if you survive that long......anyway what im saying is that people don't get it right until their elderly and wow that sounds incredibly bleak now that i think about it but still you should get my point.


----------



## Aquamarine (Jul 24, 2011)

christicake said:


> <3 Don't build a wall around your heart. I learned too that rejection can happen, but I think the problem is more about cognitive functions. We have Fi and I believe have a tendency to fall for people faster than they will fall for us. I've found this true in my own life when I've fallen head over heals for guys in the first week of getting to know them (even if I didn't admit it to myself). As an INTJ female, just understand that most of the world thinks and processes things differently than you. I know how it feels to be a wallflower, be picked on, and what it is like to be made fun of. Anyway, most of my life I struggled with exactly what you are talking about; the rejection and then closing off my heart.
> 
> My story:
> 
> ...


I'm still in the process of knocking the wall down, haha. I have never fallen in love with someone that I've known for a short period, but I did fall in obsessive love with someone online, as well as four guys admitting to loving me online. 

I don't mind being the wallflower, but I hate it when people pick at me because of that. Worst still, other wallflowers start picking on me as well, because I am different from them and don't fit in their circle. Oh well. I'm already done with them.

I have realised that for another reason as well, but every time someone encourages me to crawl out of the shell, they find out too much about me and brand me as "abnormal" and "a social freak", and as a result, I end up building myself a larger shell instead. (Quoting this analogy from somewhere) I need to stop this vicious cycle, but it looks like I can't find trustworthy friends (though I've recently identified two.)

The humiliation can be very hurtful, especially when it comes from supposedly "mature and creditable" friends.

Yes, I agree that the women who insulted me have been conditioned by society to feel this way. While I empathise with them, I don't like it when they shove their beliefs down my throat and expect me to accept it.

Thank you, and may you have a happy and healthy life!


----------



## Aquamarine (Jul 24, 2011)

RandomNote said:


> You shouldn't quit dating your still to young for that, you still have plenty of time.....well if you survive that long......anyway what im saying is that people don't get it right until their elderly and wow that sounds incredibly bleak now that i think about it but still you should get my point.


Maybe I might continue later, but not now. I expect myself to at least live until 65, as long as (knock on wood) nothing happens and all is well. Yeah, I get what you mean.


----------



## PlacentaCake (Jun 14, 2012)

Athena Avril said:


> I have realised that for another reason as well, but every time someone encourages me to crawl out of the shell, they find out too much about me and brand me as "abnormal" and "a social freak", and as a result, I end up building myself a larger shell instead. (Quoting this analogy from somewhere) I need to stop this vicious cycle, but it looks like I can't find trustworthy friends (though I've recently identified two.)
> 
> The humiliation can be very hurtful, especially when it comes from supposedly "mature and creditable" friends.


I agree about this and I've noticed this with myself too. Once an ISTJ gave me advice. He told me that he decided long ago never to be anyone but himself. He figured that if people like him, then they will like him and if they don't they don't. Rejection is part of life. I interpreted what he said for myself and came up with: I'm going to be myself, regardless of how weird I am and how much people make fun of me, because then I'll know that the people that like me, like me for me! I have only a few close friends, both INFJs, but I think it was easier for them to relate to me because I was all Ni all over the place and they liked that. They know I'm weird and don't mind, in fact they think it is refreshing  Also, I don't see people that often and that is just fine with me. I quite like being alone. 

I swear I will stop giving crazy advice after this...but the most recent thing that I realized about human interaction is that typically, if I'm not feeling comfortable with a person (i.e. acting weird, awkward, upset...etc.), it is probably because _they_ are off in some way and we won't get along. I need to hang out with non-judgmental people in order to feel comfortable and like I can be myself.

Ok, well, I've read that it is hard for same types to give advice to each other because we go through the same problems, but I think I have a different perspective because of my health situation. I know things will work out for you. Don't be a turtle!! 

Thanks for the well wishes and same to you


----------



## RandomNote (Apr 10, 2013)

Athena Avril said:


> Maybe I might continue later, but not now. I expect myself to at least live until 65, as long as (knock on wood) nothing happens and all is well. Yeah, I get what you mean.


Here's some advice i learned that might help keep things "well". Always have a contingency plan for every possible situation you can think of, it works......just don't go crazy cause believe it or not considering every possible situation and creating a counter measure is not good for your mental health. Or just plan for certain events if you don't feel like thinking too much....either works.


----------



## Aquamarine (Jul 24, 2011)

christicake said:


> I agree about this and I've noticed this with myself too. Once an ISTJ gave me advice. He told me that he decided long ago never to be anyone but himself. He figured that if people like him, then they will like him and if they don't they don't. Rejection is part of life. I interpreted what he said for myself and came up with: I'm going to be myself, regardless of how weird I am and how much people make fun of me, because then I'll know that the people that like me, like me for me! I have only a few close friends, both INFJs, but I think it was easier for them to relate to me because I was all Ni all over the place and they liked that. They know I'm weird and don't mind, in fact they think it is refreshing  Also, I don't see people that often and that is just fine with me. I quite like being alone.
> 
> I swear I will stop giving crazy advice after this...but the most recent thing that I realized about human interaction is that typically, if I'm not feeling comfortable with a person (i.e. acting weird, awkward, upset...etc.), it is probably because _they_ are off in some way and we won't get along. I need to hang out with non-judgmental people in order to feel comfortable and like I can be myself.
> 
> ...


That's true. Most of the people I get along with are NT and NF type. They are the ones who accept me as I am, even though they might find me weird. It's part of my life to interact with people a lot (especially at that time when I was in university), so it's hard to avoid social interaction. What I can do is to keep everything as formal as possible with people who can potentially be toxic to my life, and not let them interfere with my personal life.

I don't find your advice crazy at all. I can instinctively sense people who are going to be judgmental (perhaps by studying their body language and interaction with others) and that's why I put on a facade when with them. Me too, and I'm in the process of looking for these people.

Your perspective is refreshing because it's based on your own experience. I sure do hope it can! :laughing:

I accept your well wishes.


----------



## Aquamarine (Jul 24, 2011)

RandomNote said:


> Here's some advice i learned that might help keep things "well". Always have a contingency plan for every possible situation you can think of, it works......just don't go crazy cause believe it or not considering every possible situation and creating a counter measure is not good for your mental health. Or just plan for certain events if you don't feel like thinking too much....either works.


Sounds like the usual Plan B that I have. I have it pretty much set out for myself, and having this ability with foreseeing things is not causing me any mental toil. Maybe you're too worried about circumstances (especially bleak ones) that have little possibility of happening.


----------



## RandomNote (Apr 10, 2013)

Athena Avril said:


> Sounds like the usual Plan B that I have. I have it pretty much set out for myself, and having this ability with foreseeing things is not causing me any mental toil. Maybe you're too worried about circumstances (especially bleak ones) that have little possibility of happening.


I don't usually leave out a possible outcome just cause it has a low possibility of happening cause i believe anything can happen and its better to have and not need then need and not have. But i do have a tendency to get absorbed in my own thoughts to the point that it causes me stress......so it does become a problem form time to time but its fine all considering.


----------



## Aquamarine (Jul 24, 2011)

RandomNote said:


> I don't usually leave out a possible outcome just cause it has a low possibility of happening cause i believe anything can happen and its better to have and not need then need and not have. But i do have a tendency to get absorbed in my own thoughts to the point that it causes me stress......so it does become a problem form time to time but its fine all considering.


I agree with you. Don't let all that thinking get to you, though.


----------



## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

Athena Avril said:


> I'm pretty much done with those bullies, and am quite sure that I know how to spot a bully in the future. That was in the past now, so my apathy towards their opinion can be helpful to me.


How is it helpful?



> I've had many friends whom I thought of as "trustworthy", and the final result is that I get betrayed every time I let my guard down.


How exactly do people betray you?
How do you usually keep your guard up?



> I don't know about you, but I find it unbelievable that some total jerks are able to get hitched, and I'm not a total jerk (I can be one if someone pi**es me off) and I can't even get anyone. The irony. The only attraction that I get from guys are from online and some creeps in real life. (Someone earlier mentioned about shy guys who has never confessed their love, but I'm skeptical that I have any secret admirers.)


I find this to be overly negative ideas about dating and other people.
Sure several people fall into these categories, but it isn't as pervasive.
In general I would say that what people look for in potential partners is indicators of surplus energy.
If you are run down only run down people will feel that you have anything to offer.
Men and women have different weightings on what indicators is prioritized
but every indicator of surplus go together to paint a general picture of desirability.
Hence to get surplus energy is very important in finding a mate.



> I'm apprehensive of meeting online friends in real life, but I might consider making an exception if the person on the other end is very honest, straightforward and not a potential bad influence to my life.


You yourself do this same thing as you are screening people away that you feel would drain energy rather than contribute.
The way I did online meet ups earlier was find activity sites for my area and meet up with people for activities rather than for mating.
Then I would meet people of both sexes for stuff like board games, sports and cafe conversations.



> I don't mind about your tone, so no worries.


Haha! Yeah I would have guessed so, but you never now.



> I just don't give a hoot about the loneliness, or I might have just become used to it. I have been lonely for the majority of the last 20 years, and I am still alive and kicking. As for my feelings, I just accept it as part of me instead of suppressing it, and it's all good for me. I guess that I did the right thing to quit dating.


Well if that is your position right now then that is where we go forward from. 



> I have noticed some MBTI types are more likely than others to pick on me, but I just want to keep an open mind to people because not everyone is bad. I suppose it's better for me to just stay away from those specific types in the future.


Well some types have more to gain from pick on you than others.
One can gain certain types of status fast by pushing others buttons in public.
But picking on others isn't type specific and any type can do it.
Still the types you most often clash with will often feel justified attacking you for your seeming "wrong way" of dealing with the world.
In general as an INTJ you will clash most with Si, then Fe, so Ti and lastly Ne.
Si users will interpret your actions as almost diabolic, Fe as something that can't be taken serious, and Ti as being difficult on purpose,
Ne can find you focus boring and obstructive to fun.


----------



## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

Tell them that you are the type of person that wants to be with another person, not be with a relationship (desperately grabbing whomever to fit in that mold) There's a difference there.


----------



## Aquamarine (Jul 24, 2011)

hornet said:


> How is it helpful?
> 
> 
> How exactly do people betray you?
> ...


It's helpful that I refuse to let their baseless and unnecessary insults affect me anymore.

In a work context, they would convince me that they can be trusted with doing their portion of their work well, and in the end, the back out at the last minute or do an half-hearted job at it, leaving me with not enough time to complete the work. Some of them would push their work to me, because I am supposedly "the only single person left" and they presume that I don't need to rest and have personal time because I have no reason to complain about being tired and I don't have a spouse/boyfriend. (This is partly why I want to get a boyfriend quickly. I just can't get rid of this label and am sick of doing everybody's work just because I'm single.) They give me full of excuses such as "You're smarter than me, so you do it.", "You're single anyway; you don't need to spend personal time, so get back to work until it's bedtime." and "Why? You're younger than me, so you should do more so that you can learn more. Quit complaining and just do it." It happens constantly, and when I rebuke their behaviour, they (especially the girls) act as the victim in front of their friends and push all the blame to me.

In a personal context, they would lure me to tell them my secrets and details about my personal life. Later, they would either tell it to someone else without my permission or make use of it to embarrass or backstab me.

I keep my guard up by always doing their portion of their work in secret, so that I'll always be prepared in case they back out or do a lousy job. I entrust them with the least significant jobs required, so that they can't screw things up. In the personal context, I would not let them know too much about my personal life. In a sense, I'm building a wall between them and me.

Hmm, I know sounds like I am stereotyping, but I still wonder why there seems to be a trend of people constantly getting tricked into relationships with manipulative jerks, and it's still happening despite so many known cases. On the other hand, nicer guys and girls are unable to find someone. I confirmed it when my friend told me "You better get a boyfriend soon, so that you have somebody to rely on and a shoulder to lean on. People are going to take advantage of you, so it's better for you to get into a relationship."

I see, but what kind of surplus energy are you referring to? Physically, emotionally, socially or mentally?

Actually, it is less of screening energy-draining people (I wouldn't had wrote this thread if I knew how to do it) but about staying away from people who may present a danger or may potentially stir up trouble in my life. One example would be people who makes use of the friendship for personal gains. Such group meetups should be fine with me.

No worries. :happy:

I'm ready to start, but how am I to start off the emotional healing? I might have been ignoring the "wounds" for so long that I can't remember how to hasten the recovery.

I'm not being typist (I know that we can't generalise people according to type), but I've a list of people who've rubbed me the wrong way so far:
1. ESTJ - Messed up my oral presentation and tried to involve me in a scam. When I backed out, she refused to be my friend anymore and told her friends to socially isolate me.
2. ESFJ - Humiliated me for being single and called me a "tomboy". Finds it "fun" to push my buttons because I show no emotions.
3. ISFJ - Refused to take me seriously because I'm younger than him. Constantly pushes my buttons.
4. ESFJ - Doesn't take me seriously and said that "I'll never marry". Constantly pushes my buttons.
5. INTP - Cheated my feelings and has emotionally manipulated me.

Of course, there are more people, but I know these 5 people's MBTI (the last one told me so himself and the rest are decided by observing their behaviour).


----------



## Aquamarine (Jul 24, 2011)

Ningsta Kitty said:


> Tell them that you are the type of person that wants to be with another person, not be with a relationship (desperately grabbing whomever to fit in that mold) There's a difference there.


They're too focused on the relationship status itself than on who the people in the relationships are.


----------



## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

Athena Avril said:


> They're too focused on the relationship status itself than on who the people in the relationships are.


yeah. and that's not your problem. So don't worry about it


----------



## Aquamarine (Jul 24, 2011)

Ningsta Kitty said:


> yeah. and that's not your problem. So don't worry about it


That's right. Thank you!


----------



## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

Athena Avril said:


> It's helpful that I refuse to let their baseless and unnecessary insults affect me anymore.


Ah I see, good!



> In a work context, they would convince me that they can be trusted with doing their portion of their work well, and in the end, the back out at the last minute or do an half-hearted job at it, leaving me with not enough time to complete the work. Some of them would push their work to me, because I am supposedly "the only single person left" and they presume that I don't need to rest and have personal time because I have no reason to complain about being tired and I don't have a spouse/boyfriend. (This is partly why I want to get a boyfriend quickly. I just can't get rid of this label and am sick of doing everybody's work just because I'm single.) They give me full of excuses such as "You're smarter than me, so you do it.", "You're single anyway; you don't need to spend personal time, so get back to work until it's bedtime." and "Why? You're younger than me, so you should do more so that you can learn more. Quit complaining and just do it." It happens constantly, and when I rebuke their behaviour, they (especially the girls) act as the victim in front of their friends and push all the blame to me.


I would look into assertiveness if I where you.
Their manipulative behaviour of your time and energy is not something that should be condoned.
Though from my experience with people I'm not surprised.



> In a personal context, they would lure me to tell them my secrets and details about my personal life. Later, they would either tell it to someone else without my permission or make use of it to embarrass or backstab me.


I know the feeling when people do that, it isn't fun.



> I keep my guard up by always doing their portion of their work in secret, so that I'll always be prepared in case they back out or do a lousy job. I entrust them with the least significant jobs required, so that they can't screw things up. In the personal context, I would not let them know too much about my personal life. In a sense, I'm building a wall between them and me.


Yes I know of the wall you speak off.
I would say that that wall is good to have.
But do install a door in the wall, you need to be able to interact sometimes.
I have walls too, but I also have a door in it in case someone who are on my suspect list have something to contribute.
Don't listen to people who tell you to have no walls, to have boundaries is very important as a grown person.



> Hmm, I know sounds like I am stereotyping, but I still wonder why there seems to be a trend of people constantly getting tricked into relationships with manipulative jerks, and it's still happening despite so many known cases. On the other hand, nicer guys and girls are unable to find someone.


It depends on what you define nice/jerk as.
If nice is manipulating with gifts and compliments then you fall in to a very usual trap.
Jerks are often quite "honest", they may be abusive, but they don't try to hide it either.
What you need is a honest person who isn't abusive either.
Such a person will have a huge surplus obviously.



> I see, but what kind of surplus energy are you referring to? Physically, emotionally, socially or mentally?


They all count.
Think of it as a math equation. Every factor is multiplied and the resultant sum is the net surplus.
Then different types detect different surplus indicators.
So say an ISFJ evaluate you. To him you don't strive to add anything he defines as valuable.
Hence you he detects a very low value.
A fellow INTJ might on the other hand see lots of value in you since he picks up indicators that the other doesn't.
Neither of them will be spot on as not everything is indicated.
If you have a million dollars in the bank no body knows that you have it, however a fit body is easy to detect.
Si users like to flaunt status symbols to indicate relative levels of wealth.
Since you probably don't do this your lack of wealth indicators will be taken as a sign of poverty.
Your lack of a boyfriend will also be interpreted in similar ways.
So you have people from a different orientation holding you to a standard that seem artificial to you.
You try to evaluate people on merit, an indicator of surplus you are more comfortable with.

Only way to get these people in line is to stop covering their inept asses.
Only do what is your part and what will keep you out of trouble.
It is hard to give specific advice since I don't know the environment you are dealing with.
But as far as possible I would cut back on any support of your colleagues giving you extra work.



> Actually, it is less of screening energy-draining people (I wouldn't had wrote this thread if I knew how to do it) but about staying away from people who may present a danger or may potentially stir up trouble in my life. One example would be people who makes use of the friendship for personal gains. Such group meetups should be fine with me.


Generally your best friends will come from your own cognitive group. INTJ, ISFP, ENTJ, (ESFP anima).
Once you get outside that group you encounter conflicting agendas.
I would be very wary with any person outside your group offering friendships like that.
I would categorize them as acquaintances. People who you know who are, but won't offer
anything earth-shattering valuable to you most of the time.
You have two neighbouring groups. INFJ, ENFJ, ISTP, ESTP and ISTJ, ESTJ, ENFP, INFP
these groups are sometime okay, sometimes not, be wary.
The last group ISFJ, ESFJ, ENTP, INTP
this group don't have anything in common with your group and will very seldom have anything directly in common with you.
These are the ones that drain you the most too.



> I'm ready to start, but how am I to start off the emotional healing? I might have been ignoring the "wounds" for so long that I can't remember how to hasten the recovery.


Start small and build.
Set aside energy to heal with.
Create space for yourself.



> I'm not being typist (I know that we can't generalise people according to type), but I've a list of people who've rubbed me the wrong way so far:
> 1. ESTJ - Messed up my oral presentation and tried to involve me in a scam. When I backed out, she refused to be my friend anymore and told her friends to socially isolate me.
> 2. ESFJ - Humiliated me for being single and called me a "tomboy". Finds it "fun" to push my buttons because I show no emotions.
> 3. ISFJ - Refused to take me seriously because I'm younger than him. Constantly pushes my buttons.
> ...


I do believe that generally one can judge type when it comes to energy.
Certain types drain each other and there is no way around it.
the sooner one accepts that some types don't have anything to offer in general, (there are always exceptions)
the sooner one can create an energy surplus from not having unnecessary clashes.


----------



## Aquamarine (Jul 24, 2011)

hornet said:


> Ah I see, good!


:happy: I'm tired of them anyway. 



hornet said:


> I would look into assertiveness if I where you.
> Their manipulative behaviour of your time and energy is not something that should be condoned.
> Though from my experience with people I'm not surprised.


They're just finding a hundred and one excuses for their laziness and poor time management, and no matter how I protest with them, they always prove themselves right and refuse to compensate me for the lost time and energy. Yeah, that's what I mean by my bad experiences with people.



hornet said:


> I know the feeling when people do that, it isn't fun.


I could have done the same to them to let them get the taste of their own medicine, but I don't think it's right either.



hornet said:


> Yes I know of the wall you speak off.
> I would say that that wall is good to have.
> But do install a door in the wall, you need to be able to interact sometimes.
> I have walls too, but I also have a door in it in case someone who are on my suspect list have something to contribute.
> Don't listen to people who tell you to have no walls, to have boundaries is very important as a grown person.


That's right. I know that the wall can be useful, or else I will be free to take advantage of. That's why I am reluctant to take down the entire wall. And yes, the door is something that I tend to forget.



hornet said:


> It depends on what you define nice/jerk as.
> If nice is manipulating with gifts and compliments then you fall in to a very usual trap.
> Jerks are often quite "honest", they may be abusive, but they don't try to hide it either.
> What you need is a honest person who isn't abusive either.
> Such a person will have a huge surplus obviously.


Hmm... aren't both classified as jerks? Well, I'm not going for perfection here, but my minimum requirements are:
Good-hearted, as in someone who does not seek for his own gain at the expense of others and does not harm others intentionally.
He and his family treat me well, as in respecting my rights and accepting me for who I am (not seeking to change me to suit himself).
That's the minimum, and honesty is also something that I appreciate as well.



hornet said:


> They all count.
> Think of it as a math equation. Every factor is multiplied and the resultant sum is the net surplus.
> Then different types detect different surplus indicators.
> So say an ISFJ evaluate you. To him you don't strive to add anything he defines as valuable.
> ...


Yes, you've accurately explained why our perceptions of each other are so different, and why they regard me as of low value. That means I need to look for people who have the same evaluation system as I do.



hornet said:


> Only way to get these people in line is to stop covering their inept asses.
> Only do what is your part and what will keep you out of trouble.
> It is hard to give specific advice since I don't know the environment you are dealing with.
> But as far as possible I would cut back on any support of your colleagues giving you extra work.


What happened then is that we're assigned group assignments, and one inept person can drag the results of everybody else. I often get assigned the role of the team leader. During the process, they start becoming tardy and irresponsible. Worst still, they sometimes clash with each other and that makes cooperation hard. That's where the problem comes. I can stop helping those who aren't in my group, but I can't do it this way in a team. Well, I'm afraid that this problem might crop up in my working life in the future.




hornet said:


> Generally your best friends will come from your own cognitive group. INTJ, ISFP, ENTJ, (ESFP anima).
> Once you get outside that group you encounter conflicting agendas.
> I would be very wary with any person outside your group offering friendships like that.
> I would categorize them as acquaintances. People who you know who are, but won't offer
> ...


That's exactly the answer that I'm looking for in the likelihood of getting along, almost spot-on except for a few exceptions. This also explains why I clash the most with the people of the last category. (Oddly enough, it seems like I am attracting them like a magnet everywhere I go.  ) As for the neighbouring groups, I can get along with some individuals, but I am not close with most of them. I am not too sure about my closest friends' types, though I am pretty sure one of them is a ESFP. 



hornet said:


> Start small and build.
> Set aside energy to heal with.
> Create space for yourself.
> 
> ...


I get a clear idea of what you mean now, and thanks for explaining in detail! You can be an outstanding psychologist. 

I'm curious as to how you come to the understand of the energy of relationships. Was your knowledge from your personal studies or was it from a book, a course you've attended or website?


----------



## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

Athena Avril said:


> They're just finding a hundred and one excuses for their laziness and poor time management, and no matter how I protest with them, they always prove themselves right and refuse to compensate me for the lost time and energy. Yeah, that's what I mean by my bad experiences with people.


After reading about the teamwork thing I understand what you mean.
In general you need to have some system of incentives to get them to act up.
MBTI should go a long way in helping you identify what types need what kind of incentives.
It can also predict clashes between different types and how to deal with them.



> I could have done the same to them to let them get the taste of their own medicine, but I don't think it's right either.


Well I think it is right to have people not pulling their weight feel the consequences of their own inaction, if possible.
You not propping them up is an ethical thing to do.
As leader you really should have a way of evaluating and report slackers to superiors.
Isn't there punishments you can activate?
Surely there is some sort of hierarchy with people who have the power to enact punishment on your colleagues.
Of course I don't know the environment you work in.
I'm just mentioning general ideas.




> Hmm... aren't both classified as jerks? Well, I'm not going for perfection here, but my minimum requirements are:
> Good-hearted, as in someone who does not seek for his own gain at the expense of others and does not harm others intentionally.
> He and his family treat me well, as in respecting my rights and accepting me for who I am (not seeking to change me to suit himself).
> That's the minimum, and honesty is also something that I appreciate as well.


Generally high Fi users have what you are describing.
But there are bad apples everywhere.




> What happened then is that we're assigned group assignments, and one inept person can drag the results of everybody else. I often get assigned the role of the team leader. During the process, they start becoming tardy and irresponsible. Worst still, they sometimes clash with each other and that makes cooperation hard. That's where the problem comes. I can stop helping those who aren't in my group, but I can't do it this way in a team. Well, I'm afraid that this problem might crop up in my working life in the future.


I've mentioned this further up.
In general you need to take a fresh look at the situation and consider what tools you have available.
How do other team-leaders get their teams to operate?
Google team management and such, I'm sure there are many ideas floating around.



> That's exactly the answer that I'm looking for in the likelihood of getting along, almost spot-on except for a few exceptions. This also explains why I clash the most with the people of the last category. (Oddly enough, it seems like I am attracting them like a magnet everywhere I go.  ) As for the neighbouring groups, I can get along with some individuals, but I am not close with most of them. I am not too sure about my closest friends' types, though I am pretty sure one of them is a ESFP.


Well all you need to do to repel them is not interact very much with them.
As for your ESFP friend having your anima present can be a cures and a blessing.


> I get a clear idea of what you mean now, and thanks for explaining in detail! You can be an outstanding psychologist.


Thanks! 



> I'm curious as to how you come to the understand of the energy of relationships. Was your knowledge from your personal studies or was it from a book, a course you've attended or website?


Unfortunately it is from self-study and I can't say that there is any one source that can give you the gist of it.
Some eastern stuff, some Jung, some modern sources mixed in my head.
I'll be happy to discuss how I view stuff like that though.


----------



## Aquamarine (Jul 24, 2011)

hornet said:


> After reading about the teamwork thing I understand what you mean.
> In general you need to have some system of incentives to get them to act up.
> MBTI should go a long way in helping you identify what types need what kind of incentives.
> It can also predict clashes between different types and how to deal with them.


I just had an "Aha!" moment. No wonder it isn't working with my method of encouraging and guiding them. My ideas are probably better suited for other INTJs like myself. Most of them are SJ types, I noticed. Maybe it's because I'm taking a business course, so I've only met one ENTP and one INFJ so far.



hornet said:


> Well I think it is right to have people not pulling their weight feel the consequences of their own inaction, if possible.
> You not propping them up is an ethical thing to do.
> As leader you really should have a way of evaluating and report slackers to superiors.
> Isn't there punishments you can activate?
> ...


I think it's right to punish them too. However, the problems then was that I don't hold much power (except for assigning and regulating their jobs) over them, so they'll try to escape responsibility and point fingers at each other. I'm sorry that I didn't clarify earlier, I was referring to the time I worked together with other schoolmates in university. I've reported these people to the lecturers, and generally what they did was to have a talk with these people. It does not work most of the time, unfortunately. I've heard that this kind of problems can get worse in the workplace. Then again, I hope to at least have cooperative team members as colleagues with this new knowledge.



hornet said:


> Generally high Fi users have what you are describing.
> But there are bad apples everywhere.


I see. Bad apples can't be identified by MBTI or any other personality theory, but most of them are recognizable, except for the most crafty ones.



hornet said:


> I've mentioned this further up.
> In general you need to take a fresh look at the situation and consider what tools you have available.
> How do other team-leaders get their teams to operate?
> Google team management and such, I'm sure there are many ideas floating around.


I get it.  Why didn't I think of that? I'll look up on Google team management and other successful companies' management as well.



hornet said:


> Well all you need to do to repel them is not interact very much with them.
> As for your ESFP friend having your anima present can be a cures and a blessing.


I don't interact much with them, yet somehow I attract these people whenever they need help with something. After that, they disappear on their own. Generally, I get along fine with ESFPs, as long as I don't go into debate on philosophical matters and we're both able to put our differences aside.



hornet said:


> Thanks!


You're welcome! I mean what I said. 



hornet said:


> Unfortunately it is from self-study and I can't say that there is any one source that can give you the gist of it.
> Some eastern stuff, some Jung, some modern sources mixed in my head.
> I'll be happy to discuss how I view stuff like that though.


I've gotten the gist from your explanation so far. Perhaps you should consider writing your theory in the forums, or maybe even a book. I see, and what Eastern stuff (I'm Asian) and modern sources are you referring to?
Sure, I hope you tell me more about these stuff. These theories can be very intriguing after studying them for a while.


----------



## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

Athena Avril said:


> I've gotten the gist from your explanation so far. Perhaps you should consider writing your theory in the forums, or maybe even a book. I see, and what Eastern stuff (I'm Asian) and modern sources are you referring to?
> Sure, I hope you tell me more about these stuff. These theories can be very intriguing after studying them for a while.


Well I tried writing a book about it once.
It died a horrible death as I didn't manage to get it into a coherent form.

Mostly I've drawn on Taoism from the east.

In modern sources oh gee where to start???
I could give you a reading list, but you would probably not get to the same conclusions I did.
Still Taoism is the game changer I guess as I've filtered every western idea trough the Chinese energy paradigm.

In general I subscribe to the idea that every concept can be put on a yin/yang line where you have -X yin to ZERO to +X yang.
From that general concept everything can be distilled down to an energy process that can be considered abstractly.
I always ask what something means in terms of energy.
So having MBTI with Jungs cognitive dynamics that act like a yin/yang relationship, Jung even quotes the Book of Tao in
psychological types explaining how it corresponds, it is easy to understand the energy relationships between people.


----------



## Aquamarine (Jul 24, 2011)

hornet said:


> Well I tried writing a book about it once.
> It died a horrible death as I didn't manage to get it into a coherent form.
> 
> Mostly I've drawn on Taoism from the east.
> ...


Maybe you can start from a thread in this forum? At least it doesn't have to be as long as writing a book.

That's all right; I was just curious as to how you reach this conclusion. I also find the energy theory very similar to Traditional Chinese Medicine, where it explains how energy affects each of our organs and how it will have an indirect impact on other organs. Change the organs with people and there's the similar result.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge with me!


----------



## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

Athena Avril said:


> Maybe you can start from a thread in this forum? At least it doesn't have to be as long as writing a book.
> 
> That's all right; I was just curious as to how you reach this conclusion. I also find the energy theory very similar to Traditional Chinese Medicine, where it explains how energy affects each of our organs and how it will have an indirect impact on other organs. Change the organs with people and there's the similar result.
> 
> Thanks for sharing your knowledge with me!


I will consider it.
Here is a list of books that might be interesting and steer you in some kind of beneficial direction.

Mastery: The Keys to Success and Long-Term Fulfillment: George Leonard: 9780452267565: Amazon.com: Books

Silent Power: Stuart Wilde: 9781561705368: Amazon.com: Books

The Art of SpeedReading People: How to Size People Up and Speak Their Language: Paul D. Tieger, Barbara Barron-Tieger: 9780316845182: Amazon.com: Books

Amazon.com: Psychological Types (The Collected Works of C. G. Jung, Vol. 6) (Bollingen Series XX) (9780691018133): C. G. Jung, R. F. C. Hull, H. G. Baynes: Books

Classics in the History of Psychology -- Jung (1921/1923) Chapter 10 (*Alternative* *only chapter 10*)

The Adventures of Anybody: Richard Bandler: 9780916990299: Amazon.com: Books

Awaken the Giant Within : How to Take Immediate Control of Your Mental, Emotional, Physical and Financial Destiny!: Anthony Robbins: 9780671791544: Amazon.com: Books

I can e-mail some of them in pdf format if needed.


----------

