# Brexit: Vote Leave or Vote Remain?



## xfatalxsnipez (Dec 3, 2015)

I'm surprised there isn't one of these on here already to be honest.

Should we stay in the European Union or leave?

Personally, I've been fluctuating back and forth between both, leaning more on leaving now.


----------



## MonieJ (Nov 22, 2010)

Pros and cons of both?


----------



## nburns (Dec 4, 2015)

I'm not British, but I voted yes, because Obama.


----------



## Toroidal (Apr 14, 2016)

nburns said:


> I'm not British, but I voted yes, because Obama.


I'm not British but I voted No because of Obama... and my own research.


----------



## Riven (Jan 17, 2015)

I vote no not because I have anything for the country, but the UK's laws make it too different from the rest of Europe, i.e. not in the Schengen area and charging nearly a premium for university education, and in terms of the culture, people sucking at languages other than English. I found from an infographic that Hungarians are also as crap as the British in speaking other languages, but no one in the world really speaks Hungarian, so I think they'd be motivated to learn another language if they go abroad (although they might forget their native language if they leave their country permanently).








I'd only vote remain because apparently Norway keeps rotting fruit in their aisles.


----------



## Aladdin Sane (May 10, 2016)

SJWDefener said:


> I vote no not because I have anything for the country, but the UK's laws make it too different from the rest of Europe, i.e. not in the Schengen area and charging nearly a premium for university education, and in terms of the culture, people sucking at languages other than English. I found from an infographic that Hungarians are also as crap as the British in speaking other languages, but no one in the world really speaks Hungarian, so I think they'd be motivated to learn another language if they go abroad (although they might forget their native language if they leave their country permanently).
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I am Hungarian (at uni in the UK) and it isn't true that Hungarians are as bad as the English at learning languages. It is compulsory to learn a foreign language from the age of 8, and for about 70% of students, that is English. In high school, two foreign languages are compulsory. 

Lots of young people speak very good English, and pretty much all of them speak _some_ English, anyone under the age of 30 could get by in England. However, the older generation doesn't speak foreign languages because Hungary was under Soviet occupation until 1989 and only Russian was taught and no one really bothered with that shit, so that brings the statistics down.

Anyways, I am for Remain because I don't like negativity and divisive shit. Plus, who wants to make the likes of Farage et al happy? 

Most people are in favour of Remain, the vast majority of young people are for Remain, if Leave wins, it will only be because the old farts are a lot more likely to actually vote, so the young ones will be left here to pick up the old farts' shit for decades to come.


----------



## Riven (Jan 17, 2015)

ziggy stardust x said:


> I am Hungarian (at uni in the UK) and it isn't true that Hungarians are as bad as the English at learning languages. It is compulsory to learn a foreign language from the age of 8, and for about 70% of students, that is English. In high school, two foreign languages are compulsory.
> 
> Lots of young people speak very good English, and pretty much all of them speak _some_ English, anyone under the age of 30 could get by in England. However, the older generation doesn't speak foreign languages because Hungary was under Soviet occupation until 1989 and only Russian was taught and no one really bothered with that shit.


Foreign languages aren't compulsory at GCSE (equivalent to US high school, I guess), but they are up to year 9 (equivalent to middle school), and like the Americans, no one seems to care whether or not you can speak another language or something. People here just aren't interested in foreign languages even though we have a ton of people here who aren't from English speaking countries, which really annoys me and makes me want to vote leave. We had language education from when you have to start it (French), but it wasn't that consistent. 

I think it's only the people here who got high grades who are able to speak foreign languages well, although this may be because I decided to quit languages since I didn't want to appear like a nerd (the only languages offered at my school, French and German, weren't exactly my taste either). I badly want to learn another language because I don't want to be like the British and the Americans in this respect.

However, I'll be voting remain on behalf of my brother (he's 17 on July); IDK for what reason, though, but some of the arguments for remain do make sense.


----------



## Aladdin Sane (May 10, 2016)

MonieJ said:


> Pros and cons of both?


Impossible tosay, nobody knows what the negotiations will turn out to be if Leave happens.


----------



## Aladdin Sane (May 10, 2016)

SJWDefener said:


> Foreign languages aren't compulsory at GCSE (equivalent to US high school, I guess), but they are up to year 9 (equivalent to middle school), and like the Americans, no one seems to care whether or not you can speak another language or something. People here just aren't interested in foreign languages even though we have a ton of people here who aren't from English speaking countries, which really annoys me and makes me want to vote leave. We had language education from when you have to start it (French), but it wasn't that consistent.


I'm not sure I understand, why would the fact that there are lots of non-English speaking people in Britain make others want to learn foreign languages? And why does this make you want to vote leave?


----------



## Riven (Jan 17, 2015)

ziggy stardust x said:


> I'm not sure I understand, why would the fact that there are lots of non-English speaking people in Britain make others want to learn foreign languages? And why does this make you want to vote leave?


I reckon that since Britain would pride itself for being a multicultural society, then people should try and pick up on the languages that people from other culture speak, even though the official language here is English. Heck, my Filipino dad knows a couple of Polish phrases: "dzien dobry" and "dziękuję", although this could be because the place he works in (hospital, radiographer) has a lot of foreign staff in there. Most people in Britain don't even bother. I know that people in Britain should learn English when they move here, but I think that the lack of enthusiasm for foreign languages the British have kind of betrays the multicultural nature of their society, hence why I want to vote leave based on this.

Look at New Zealand. People there know the Maori language and are accepting of the native culture there. It's also kind of sexy in a way the fact that some Canadians speak French and English.


----------



## .17485 (Jan 12, 2011)

I'm voting for the UK to stay in


----------



## xfatalxsnipez (Dec 3, 2015)

MonieJ said:


> Pros and cons of both?


Outcome is hard to predict. If we leave it will be bad for the Pound Sterling.

It's basically an argument about national sovereignty. A lot of Remain Campaign arguments stem from economic uncertainty. See also; Project Fear, Operation Black Vote. The Leave campaign's main arguments are from national sovereignty. The EU are pushing for more integration between member states and laws are being pushed on member states who don't want them. The laws are drafted by unelected officials within the EU and whilst Remain voters argue that we only have a say in these laws within the EU, we are constantly outvoted and the laws are pushed on us. This is seen (rightly so in my opinion.) as unfair. 

(Just to add: In my opinion, the idea that of a United Federal European State is ludicrous. There are too many differences between member states. For example, The EU has 24 official languages. Likely to be a problem if we were to have an EU army(another bad idea). The European Union has pushed itself beyond merely an economic market. It is undemocratic and is in favour of curbing the rights of citizens for further integration that they do not want.)


----------



## katemess (Oct 21, 2015)

SJWDefener said:


> Look at New Zealand. People there know the Maori language and are accepting of the native culture there.


No they don't (for the most part), and no they aren't. 

Anyway, I'm not British but I would vote to remain in the EU.


----------



## katemess (Oct 21, 2015)

xfatalxsnipez said:


> Outcome is hard to predict. If we leave it will be bad for the Pound Sterling.
> 
> It's basically an argument about national sovereignty. A lot of Remain Campaign arguments stem from economic uncertainty. See also; Project Fear, Operation Black Vote. The Leave campaign's main arguments are from national sovereignty. The EU are pushing for more integration between member states and laws are being pushed on member states who don't want them. The laws are drafted by unelected officials within the EU and whilst Remain voters argue that we only have a say in these laws within the EU, we are constantly outvoted and the laws are pushed on us. This is seen (rightly so in my opinion.) as unfair.
> 
> (Just to add: In my opinion, the idea that of a United Federal European State is ludicrous. There are too many differences between member states. For example, The EU has 24 official languages. Likely to be a problem if we were to have an EU army(another bad idea). The European Union has pushed itself beyond merely an economic market. It is undemocratic and is in favour of curbing the rights of citizens for further integration that they do not want.)


I'm not sure why this is only now coming as a surprise to people. It was always the intention of the EU to begin as an economic union and eventually move towards becoming a political union. The problem is that it's not a true economic union to begin with - the fact that only around 17 (could be more, could be less, I'm drawing from memory) of the nation states use the Euro currency etc. and the fact that there are still several countries whose applications are "pending" means that the goal of an economic union hasn't yet been achieved.


----------



## Doktorin Zylinder (May 10, 2015)

Whether or not the UK leaves this year or when the EU inevitably collapses doesn't really matter. It's just a matter of how much pain they wish experience. Have some pain now in exchange for a little later or not much now for hell in the future. I'd be inclined for them to leave and brace themselves for the future EU implosion and take it in stride as an observer rather than be part of the ultimate breakup in real time with the rest of the community and feel the wrath of stupidity rain down upon them. 

Either way, it's going to hurt. Just do a cost benefit analysis in regards to protecting yourself in this instance.


----------



## Carpentet810 (Nov 17, 2013)

Betting most will take the hardway. Many years ago when the EU was founded and the US worried about a European powerhouse, I told my associates not to worry, it would not last. And sure enough it isn't. A union based squarely on idealism should suffer terribly as a warning to other idiots that are tempted to create another colassal goatfuck. 

So crack open a tasty beverage, kick back and watch the faux Rome burn!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Raain (Jan 3, 2012)

Both sides are horrific. The remain side is led by out of touch liberals, the leave is led by nationalists and xenophobic isolationism. Both of them think they know what's best for us, but they don't. We will still have the same rubbish politics and still be treated like so whether we leave or not. I am not voting.


----------



## Asmodaeus (Feb 15, 2015)

I’m not British but one doesn’t need a PhD to realize that, in terms of long-term national interests (concerning economic productivity, sociopolitical stability, demographic balances, political sovereignty, monetary autonomy and trade diversification), Brexit is the most convenient course of action for the UK.

If Brexit prevails, Britain (not unlike Switzerland) will remain an island of stability while the EU ultimately implodes.


----------



## Mirkwood (Jul 16, 2014)

Stay .

Tbh I haven't watched the news much lately, and i am not from the Uk, but Denmark.
Here there is also talk about if we should have a vote again about Eu membership (tho we never really been that much in I think, never had the currency atleast), the nationalistic party won BIG, last time.

For all the laws from the EU that seem annoying, unfair, etc. Then there are equally, or more good ones and benefits.

Should stay, and then maybe talk about how it can be different, not the only country which is a bit unhappy with how some things work now i think.

Open borders and all is just great i think.

I think many are too consumed worrying about if they will loose some national identity or whatever. but that is not really who we are, we are not a country or flag, etc :frustrating: .. that is atleast how i see it sometimes, that people worry about things like that.. then totally overlooking that the traditions and etc we call ours often are quite new and brought in from another corner of the world.


----------



## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

I cannot make a definitive answer on this. As an American from the U.S. it really doesn't affect me one way or the other. I do not consider myself well-versed on the issues affecting the U.K. and the EU, whether pro or con.


----------

