# NTJ's, help me understand Fi



## Nitou (Feb 3, 2010)

Ni and Fi are a mystery to me- they are the two functions I have the least understanding of. I have seen some other threads and articles on Ni so my interest here is Fi as it is experienced by the NTJ type. For examples of things you could answer:

How does Fi support Te in making judgments?
How does in manifest in your social/romantic relationships?
How does in inform your moral judgments?
Do you ever feel a conflict between thinking and feeling values?
What is your Enneagram type, and does it modify your MBTI type in regard to your feeling side?
Do you have conflicts with Fe-types, why?


----------



## TheBoss (Oct 27, 2011)

Nitou said:


> 1. How does Fi support Te in making judgments?
> 2. How does in manifest in your social/romantic relationships?
> 3. How does in inform your moral judgments?
> 4. Do you ever feel a conflict between thinking and feeling values?
> ...


For me and in short:
1. Sometimes it helps in choosing the "best" action. Granted in a very subjective personal way. For example, I will feel better as a person if I don't manipulate money out of people (sometimes ^^). My brain calls me a sucker but my Fi tells me I am awesome for being so nice.
2. By making me loyal and quite fair. Actually tolerant, in the wide sense of it.
3. Hm?
4. Yes. The values my Fi formed, plague me. Would have been SO much easier if I was more cruel and didn't give a damn about morality. But without Fi, my T would have trouble concluding a few things (see 1). 
5. 8w7 tests say or 7w8. No, it doesn't modify. In fact I could be most numbers of 9gram and so, it doesn't thrill me (mentally) as theory. 
6. All the time. I can't stand their egotistic subjectivity and their politically correct fascism on who is mean and who is not. Overbearing selfish people and damn demanding too.
BUT, the truly, superbly, developed Fe's are people I really admire (through my Fi mostly). They are a whole class apart such people.


----------



## elixare (Aug 26, 2010)

*1. How does Fi support Te in making judgments?*

It mostly helps in terms of prioritizing. When there are overwhelmingly many things to do, Fi helps in choosing which ones are the most important and should be done first and which ones can be left out...it helps you in terms of "choosing thy battles" so to speak....Te helps in actually winning the battles, but winning worthless battles isn't gonna make you better off...winning battles that'll actually satisfy what you want on the other hand allows you to go far in terms of subjective well being.....

Also it allows you to be more in touch with what other people want/their motivations as well...and accomplishing things that will satisfy many people's desires once again will bring you far...accomplishing things that are worthless to people on the other hand will lead you nowhere...no one is going to buy your product if it has no value to people and you're swiftly gonna go bankrupt...

If you produce things that lots of people intrinsically value on the other hand, then plenty of people will be willing to voluntarily transfer cash to your bank account....That turns me into a very happy duck.....

*2. How does Fi manifest in your social/romantic relationships?*

hmm...I'm actually currently trying to court this cute Fi-dom girl and it certainly helps in terms of actually emotionally connecting with her rather than boring her to death with logic....otherwise, I mostly hang around thinkers in which there is no need for Fi

*3. How does Fi inform your moral judgments?*

not sure....

*4. Do you ever feel a conflict between thinking and feeling values?*

Thinking implies absolute objectivity which implies the absence of values since values are inherently subjective in nature and is therefore outside the realm of thinking....Thinking is like technology....it's neither good nor bad in and of itself...it does not make value judgments....it's just a tool to accomplish things...it's Fi that sets the values (even "thinking values" such as efficiency, etc), not Te...

*5. What is your Enneagram type, and does it modify your MBTI type in regard to your feeling side?*

8-5-3 which all are supposedly anti-feeling in some ways...8 hides the feeling beneath an armor, 5 intellectualizes the feeling, and 3 suppresses the feeling, which are all definitely true for me...I will not hesitate to use Fi to satisfy the 8-5-3 core motivations though if Fi is beneficial in doing so 

*6. Do you have conflicts with Fe-types, why?*

mostly with xSFJs....with xNFJs it's sort of on and off in a rollercoaster fashion...sometimes we attract each other and then suddenly repel and then attract again and then repel again...I grew up with an ENFJ mother though, so I'm more used to them....I find that it is more beneficial to display more of an xSFP exterior when dealing with Fe types...there's less chance of them hating me for no reason


----------



## wiarumas (Aug 27, 2010)

Fi, to me, is abstract internal feelings, values, and ideals in contrast to people oriented Fe. Things like honor, loyalty, justice, respect, etc. Fi just takes a backseat (or thrown in the trunk) behind Te and Ni. Imagine a sea captain going down with a ship. That's Fi. Fe is like a story I read about Einstein who had an elevator installed in his home because he had a hard time saying no to the salesman. Now, since Fi is our last function, we aren't like ISFPs or INFPs where our values and ideals rule and guide us... instead, our Fi subconsciously causes our Te to not stray far from authenticity, loyalty, truthfulness, etc.

*How does Fi support Te in making judgments?*

My Fi doesn't support Te. Outputs from Te may pass through an Fi filter. "This is not an acceptable solution because it does not pass my internal value system - try again, Te."

*How does in manifest in your social/romantic relationships?*

Loyalty. Respect. Admiration. etc

*How does in inform your moral judgments?*

As far as I'm aware, Fi is our moral judgments. Its a right and wrong value system. Not a "how can we make everybody happy" type function.

*Do you ever feel a conflict between thinking and feeling values?*

Occasionally, but its a one way negotiation and Te usually trumps Fi as long as its reasonable.

*What is your Enneagram type, and does it modify your MBTI type in regard to your feeling side?*

Enneagram 3, the Achiever. No, I don't think so. Type 3 is my inner drive to succeed and be a winner - think of parents pushing their kid to excel in sports, but then it translating over to education and professional life.

*Do you have conflicts with Fe-types, why? *

No, but only because I avoid them when I know things are going to get controversial.


----------



## Abraxas (May 28, 2011)

Nitou said:


> How does Fi support Te in making judgments?


Okay, well as an INTJ Ni-Te is my 'ego' or if you prefer, the two conscious functions that I am aware of using and I am more or less in control of. I prefer Ni, and I dip into Te in order to 'encode' Ni's 'private language' into an extroverted language so I can communicate my impressions to other people. Fi is subdued, my tertiary function - which means I'm not usually consciously aware of it. All the six other functions besides your primary two are subconscious. That means they just happen automatically. Since Fi represents my feelings, that is how my emotions feel to me. They feel 'automatic' - like they just spontaneously occur and I am not in control over them for the most part.

What I have to do is use Te to 'rationalize' my emotions, and if my emotions can't be rationalized, then they feel inappropriate to me, like they threaten my "Ni-Te vision" - and so I feel compelled to suppress them. Also, because my emotions are introverted, they do not follow the same patterns that Fe users emotions tend to follow. Because a Fe user's emotions are 'tuned in' to the extroverted behavioral patterns of other people, they learn how to express their emotions in accordance with the 'protocol' of extroverted society. Like me, this will happen automatically with Fe users who have Fe in the tertiary position or the inferior position. For people who have Fe in the first two conscious positions, they will be more in control over how they feel in a given situation and can make conscious decisions about how they want to feel instead of just 'dealing' with their feelings.

My emotions are introverted, and thus they are based on whatever is happening inside of me. They reflect my inner world, and the conditions of my subconscious. This is like 'wearing your heart on your sleeve' sometimes. If I'm not careful, people can see right through me. It's hard to lie, and hard to be deceptive because I naturally empathize with other people and I tend to 'feel' the impact of my actions on others. This makes it _extremely_ hard to make the 'hard choice' sometimes, when it calls for hurting someone I care about. So much for the 'INTJs are robots' myth? We're actually just as human as most people.



Nitou said:


> How does in manifest in your social/romantic relationships?


Well, it gets all crazy when it comes to social/romantic relationships. Being two things - an introvert AND intuitive dominant - makes it _extremely difficult_ to relate my ideas to other people. This means that most people _just don't get it_ and not because they are stupid or anything, but because they're just not 'configured' to get it the same way I do sometimes, and there's just nothing that can be done. Some of my inspirations are just too abstract or abnormal to make sense to anyone else, and so to a large extent I feel 'forever alone'. It gets really depressing, and it makes it hard to connect with girls/boys (I'm bi). During 'dates' (I call them disasters), I'm usually really quiet and don't have much to say, I'm just analyzing the other person, trying to gain insight into who they are and who they will be five years from now. And because I can do this fairly quickly, because I'm _very_ intuitive, I will usually already have made up my mind if I like you and if I want to be in a relationship with you, five minutes into the date. This is especially frustrating when I decide I _don't_ like the other person, because then I have to finish the date and not be a jerk the rest of the night, only to let them down at the end. Typically they'll fall in love, or decide I'm awesome, but I can't reciprocate. I'm very picky about my mates, because I want to have a family and I'm looking for a real partner to share my most intimate secrets with - someone I would trust with the lives and safety of my children.



Nitou said:


> How does in inform your moral judgments?


Well, it doesn't. My moral judgments take on two different forms - extroverted morals and introverted morals. Extroverted morals are all about being 'true to others' in the sense that you live up to the ethical standards of society, don't do anything most people would consider 'evil' or 'wrong' - but I don't feel a strong emotional investment in following these standards. In fact, I tend to feel they get in the way most of the time. Instead, I gravitate towards introverted morals - which are all about being 'true to yourself'. I have a strong focus on which of my actions feel 'sincere' to me, and which of them are 'forced' for the sake of appealing to other people. This is the classic Fi versus Fe battle going on inside me really. I'm getting the 'shadow of Fe' from my Te, as I conceive of it. Te is 'imitating' Fe as extroverted judgment, but in a purely conceptual way, showing me the law of the land, but without any emotional investment into it like would come from Fe. Instead, I get Fi to 'reason' with my ethics, and form principles with. Those principles are all about 'authenticity' as I have described it before in other topics. Fi is the drive to be expressive in a way that is true to yourself. It's not necessarily completely selfish, but it always includes the ego in it's decisions.



Nitou said:


> Do you ever feel a conflict between thinking and feeling values?


Absolutely, all the time, as I believe I've explained already.



Nitou said:


> What is your Enneagram type, and does it modify your MBTI type in regard to your feeling side?


My enneatype is a type 9. This means I tend to suppress 'unpleasant' emotions even more than most. I do it for the sake of others, but it turns into passive aggressive behavior if I make myself too much of a doormat for other people. I have to force myself to listen to my Fi and be assertive when it tells me to be, even if it seems to conflict with the 'Te logical thing to do'. If I don't do this, I get burned out and depressed after awhile, because I can only force myself to be an unconditional drone for so long.



Nitou said:


> Do you have conflicts with Fe-types, why?


Well, I wouldn't call them 'conflicts' but I do not always appreciate Fe-types. This is simply ignorance on my part, since having a working basic grasp of MBTI allows me to understand their strengths and weaknesses and accept them. It's like understanding dualism or yin-yang duality. Both are needed for proper balance in the world. Jung was a dualist about many things, and his psychological model reflects this about him. He studied alchemy and delved into hermetic philosophy and the occult. He was something of a Christian mystic. I too am familiar with the systems he studied (the ones having a strong influence on his thinking) and have felt the same inspirations, so I can connect with the underlying concepts in his writing fairly easily. In this way, I can overcome a lot of the stigma dealing with Fe users coming from my type, but I still notice it from time to time, and it still feels like a burden sometimes. But, like I said earlier, with my extroverted judgment coming from Te, I can at least comprehend Fe from a conceptual perspective and emulate Fe in that way when I need to, and honestly - it comes as no burden when it is practical and makes sense to be polite. If 'greasing the wheels' makes the machine run better, and nobody considers that manipulative, I'm all for it.


----------



## Vanitas (Dec 13, 2009)

*How does Fi support Te in making judgments?*
When Fi-- or rather, when my Te decides to listen to my Fi (usually because it cannot do anything else/ the alternative is counterproductive), Fi provides the reason/compass for that judgment/ decision. 

* How does in manifest in your social/romantic relationships?*
I have no idea. 

*How does in inform your moral judgments?*
It tells/ backs up the principles I consider as 'the right thing to do'. Not (necessarily) the socially acceptable/ kindest/ nicest thing to do, but 'right', according to my personal values and the things I do believe in. 

* Do you ever feel a conflict between thinking and feeling values?*
I'm not sure. I don't think so, my Fi is pretty dormant/ keeps to itself most of the time. 

* What is your Enneagram type, and does it modify your MBTI type in regard to your feeling side?*
3w2. I think yes, 3s are known to be disconnected with their feelings ('heart', which is ironic since we're core heart type). It's possible that the 2 wing makes me more aware of Fe than, say, a 3w4/ a general Te-Fi user. I've been told that I have 'counterfeit Fe' that makes me more attuned to society's expectations and unspoken, Fe rules. 

* Do you have conflicts with Fe-types, why?*
I do. Because I don't tend to find the things they find important to be so. Insisting that I should care about something because _I should_/ society does/ they do translates as emotional blackmail/ utterly nonsensical logic, for me. I avoid them when I feel conflicts arise; in general I don't usually like them anyway, so contact is minimum.


----------



## MNiS (Jan 30, 2010)

*How does Fi support Te in making judgments?*

It usually doesn't. As most decisions don't have a morality component attached to it. When Fi does come into play though, it's usually conceding to "doing what's right" rather than "doing what's logical". It's a compass that points me away from behaving in an inhuman/beastly/robotic/insert-pejorative-here manner.

*How does it manifest in your social/romantic relationships?*

It manifests itself in employing a sense of loyalty to those I consider companions. I've often been told I behave in a chivalrous/gentlemanly and sometimes stoic manner which is likely due to weak Fi.

*How does it inform your moral judgments?*

It gives an intrinsic sense of what's "right" and "wrong". The intangible moral basis, if you will.

*Do you ever feel a conflict between thinking and feeling values?*

Not really no. In the rare instances where I make an Fi decision, I'm good enough at seeing alternative possibilities to make it work out OK. Making an Fi decision does induce some inner conflict though.

*What is your Enneagram type, and does it modify your MBTI type in regard to your feeling side?*

3w4 and not really no. The only thing the Enneagram really says about me is that I value achievement and to back off and give me my space. 

*Do you have conflicts with Fe-types, why?*

I can't recall ever having conflicts with an Fe-type solely due to their being an Fe-type. Although hypothetically I suppose I'd conflict with an Fe-type when it comes to making decisions as Fe and Te are supposed to be different. That would have to be a situation where no one was willing to compromise though.


----------



## QrivaN (Aug 3, 2012)

*How does Fi support Te in making judgments?
*It makes me consider moral values and how people would be affected by my decision.*
How does in manifest in your social/romantic relationships?
*Weird thing is, I have this sort of alternate persona for when I'm in public. I speculate that I actually subconsciously act against my natural state of mind in order to cope with the outside world. I've noticed from observing myself that I actually come off as an ISFP when interacting with people I'm not comfortable around. I hope that this is an appropriate response. If not, let me know and I'll try to clarify a bit.*
How does it inform your moral judgments?
*It's the whole basis of my moral judgements. I often can't sense how people feel on a subject, so I try to make up for it by using Ni and Fi in conjunction to put myself in other peoples' shoes.*
Do you ever feel a conflict between thinking and feeling values?
*Sometimes. Thinking usually wins out, but the feeling really makes me think of things differently.*
What is your Enneagram type, and does it modify your MBTI type in regard to your feeling side?
*Not entirely sure, actually. I've narrowed it down to 5w6, 6w5, and 9 (still trying to figure the win for this one out). It probably would modify my type. My theory is that to get a thorough understanding of myself, I should try to understand multiple self-evaluation theories and integrate them. Seeing how all the different types of different systems combine to make me.*
Do you have conflicts with Fe-types, why?
*I don't really have conflicts with them, but Fe really tires me out and irritates me. Especially if it's dominant or auxiliary. I like the people and all, but they treat me like I'm some sort of emotionless drone ad get hurt rather easily when I say something sarcastic. This really puts me in an awkward situation, especially since EVERYONE in my close family (my grandparents and their descendants) use Fe (of course, aside from me). My only clutch to maintaining my sanity is that the males in my family are T types. They still use Fe, but at least they don't smother me with it. If it wasn't for that, I don't know what would happen.


----------



## MsBossyPants (Oct 5, 2011)

*How does Fi support Te in making judgments?*

I think Fi doesn't come into play until after a decision has been made. It's the end test. The decision is reached through rational thought and my internal filter of "what is the ultimate goal here"? The concept gets run through my thought process and I reach a decision. Then I run it through Fi: Am I comforable with it? Does this pass my internal test of right-vs-wrong? Is it important enough to fight for? If no, then back to thinking it through.

*How does it manifest in your social/romantic relationships?*

Loyalty to my partner. Speaking up for what's "right". Stepping in to defend someone against bullying. 

*How does it inform your moral judgments?*

I see Fi as a set of scales. I think it's the test of a moral judgement. 

*Do you ever feel a conflict between thinking and feeling values?*

It's not really "feeling" conflict ... it's more like reasoning through it until I'm comfortable with the end result. 

*What is your Enneagram type, and does it modify your MBTI type in regard to your feeling side?*

I'm an 8w9. I think a lot of people read the descriptions and assume that 8s are unfeeling, short-tempered, loudmouthed bullies who are on the verge of a complete meltdown at any given point. I think that's hogwash. 

It's having confidence in your leadership abilities, pulling others along in your wake and taking the weakest of them under your wing. It's more about being strong and assertive and doing what needs to be done to keep moving forward than it is about being aggressvie and powerful. So, I see my Fi more as the barometer that judges what's worth pushing forward, standing up for, and protecting. 

*Do you have conflicts with Fe-types, why? *

In general, no. I can get along with anyone. My natural instinct is to try to find common ground. I tend to back away if a discussion reaches an obvious impasse. In the same way that it's pointless to argue semantics, it's also pointless to argue feelings. You feel what you feel, I think what I think. Let's find where we agree, and respect the other person's thoughts/feelings on the rest.


----------



## Dark NiTe (Mar 5, 2012)

How does Fi support Te in making judgments? - I don't think it actually "supports" it, it is almost the other way around. I tend to perceive things in an Ni-Fi manner, and the majority of the time Te will then assist in interpersonal matters by validating Fi's subjective perception, or rendering it invalid completely; I consider Te to be the reality principle, and Fi to be the superego, of my mind. 


How does in manifest in your social/romantic relationships? - I tend to classify people as being either morally sound or morally bankrupt. No, I don't need an INTP to remind me that there are many shades of gray and of the behavioral/psycho/social influences on people's values :tongue: I just feel more "at home" that way, and it helps me to prevent being fucked over by scumbags, like many strong Fe-users tend to be. Also I am very emotionally guarded, to the point I don't even realize I'm in love until I'm heartbroken, sometimes. To put it simply, I don't know whether or not I would prefer the partnership of an Fe-user (Fe-inferior excluded), but I am 100% sure I would rather deal with an Fi user during a breakup, based on my experiences. 


How does in inform your moral judgments? - My value/moral judgments are very instinctual and quite effortless, thanks to leading with Ni then Fi and then Te affirms/invalidates them. 

Do you ever feel a conflict between thinking and feeling values? - Yes, often. Much of the time I approach issues with a Te callousness but I have been becoming more and more compassionate and sympathetic in the last couple years. All the Te usage has left me with the philosophy that "he who wields the truth like a gun can always count on lies being used like a dagger in return." 


What is your Enneagram type, and does it modify your MBTI type in regard to your feeling side? - Just took a test, came back 5-1-4/3, not sure how this applies to the question but I'm not surprised based on the basic descriptions. Being idealistic = Fi/Ni so I guess it fits. 

Do you have conflicts with Fe-types, why? - Because I feel like strong Fe users want to force me to fall in line with the other drones that only have objective (and sometimes very poorly so) views on values and morals. It's as if some Fe users are thought police, and want to reform me to not have idiosyncratic and non-politically correct views on things. 

 GIFSoup


----------



## Peripatetic (Jul 17, 2012)

The way I think of Fi is summed up in this question "does this feel authentic?" 

One particular example of this in action is sometimes when I would get lonely I would adopt people's beliefs, mannerisms, values, etc in an attempt to feel a deep connection with them. I could keep this up for a while forming what seemed like a real bond...until eventually my Fi would start bucking. This can be visualized like a gumby character stretching further and further until violently snapping backing. In one _foul_ swoop I would reject everything I had been doing and go off and "be me". (It was an unpleasant process for everyone and I don't do it any more).

Obviously anyone can feel this "authenticity" (to thine own self be true), but in the Fi it's particularly pronounced and poignant.


----------



## Dark NiTe (Mar 5, 2012)

Yeah I always did see Fe as relatively empty and superficial and sometimes even political, like the last thing it cares about is unadulterated truth.


----------

