# Going Veg(etari)an



## Shinji Mimura (Aug 1, 2012)

MsBossyPants said:


> Food tasting better .. I think that's because you lose the sat-fat mouth feel. If you quit eating a lot of fatty foods and fried foods, after a while, everything tastes better because your taste buds aren't coated in fat.


That doesn't sound scientifically-backed...

Also, "fried" isn't a universal bad. It depends on the oil you use.


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## MegaTuxRacer (Sep 7, 2011)

MsBossyPants said:


> Good luck, MegaTuxRacer. Sounds like you're doing great so far.


Thanks, boo. I am actually going to buy that book you recommended in your stickied thread, so I a diving deeper.


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## missushoney (May 16, 2011)

I'm a vegetarian that eats fish, milk and eggs. I wanted to be one when I was in the 6th grade. I'd tried in 5th grade but I was too into chicken nuggets and bacon and stuff. My mom said I could do it if I ate at least fish so I could keep protein in my diet somehow. I don't eat a bunch of fish now and I've tried meat again a few times over the past few years but the taste is weird to me. The smell is ok and I even don't mind cooking it for people. I just feel that there's no reason for me to eat it when there are all sorts of fake meats that taste similar and don't require me eating an animal/friend. It's not that I don't think fish are friends but I appreciate them for letting me eat them. haha. I feel pretty healthy this way and taking multivitamins and drinking those Naked or Odwalla smoothies I find help me. 

But I actually don't eat very healthy. I like veggies but I usually drink smoothies and juice instead of real fruits. I eat massive amounts of bread and pizza and pasta and sweets. But I feel pretty good for the most part. It's not hard to find things to eat these days if you're open minded and not picky about everything. Indian food I find is great because there are a lot of vegetarian dishes. And seventh day adventists don't eat meat so going to their church functions or at least to towns like Loma Linda, California where many reside, is an option. In fact, that area is one of the few places in the world where they've found the fountain of youth. Another place is in Japan and another in Italy and another somewhere in Latin America but I can't remember where. Basically: small portions, exercise, no stress, enough sleep, closeness of family, high level of spirituality and fresh eating are the main ways to stay young and healthy. I like Italy's idea that a glass of wine helps too.


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## MsBossyPants (Oct 5, 2011)

MsBossyPants said:


> Food tasting better .. I think that's because you lose the sat-fat mouth feel. If you quit eating a lot of fatty foods and fried foods, after a while, everything tastes better because your taste buds aren't coated in fat. That "everything tastes so much better" feeling is hard to describe, you have to experience it.
> 
> Try this: Don't eat anything fried for a few weeks, and then have a few bites of french fries or something like that. You'll see what I mean. You'll be able to feel the fatty taste in your mouth. Ick.
> 
> Good luck, MegaTuxRacer. Sounds like you're doing great so far.





Shinji Mimura said:


> That doesn't sound scientifically-backed...
> 
> Also, "fried" isn't a universal bad. It depends on the oil you use.


 I wasn't offering it as definitive scientific proof. I prefaced my comment with "I think" and said that it's hard to describe, you have to experience it. Having said that, though, Google it . There's plenty of stuff out there if you want to look into it.

And 
A gram of fat is a gram of fat.

While it's true that plant-based fats contained in nuts, seeds, avocados, and olives are generally more healthful than saturated animal fats, ... it's still fat. Regardless of what you fry food in, you're still frying it.


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## Shinji Mimura (Aug 1, 2012)

MsBossyPants said:


> And
> A gram of fat is a gram of fat.
> 
> While it's true that plant-based fats contained in nuts, seeds, avocados, and olives are generally more healthful than saturated animal fats, ... it's still fat.


See now I'm lost. Fat is a necessity for the human body, you can't just neglect it. It's on the same level as any other necessary ingredient to human functioning, and, like most necessary nutrients, it also helps the body function at a better level. You simply cannot live a fat-free diet unless your goal is to live unhealthily. The same could be said if you didn't take in, say, vitamin C or protein.

Also, that's actually a severe misunderstanding about plant fats being healthier than animal fats. Most animal fats are plenty good for you, and while some non-meat fats can be good (such as coconut oil), a LOT of them tend to lead to trans fats, which are the ones that clog people's arteries and kills them.


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## MegaTuxRacer (Sep 7, 2011)

Shinji Mimura said:


> See now I'm lost. Fat is a necessity for the human body, you can't just neglect it. It's on the same level as any other necessary ingredient to human functioning, and, like most necessary nutrients, it also helps the body function at a better level. You simply cannot live a fat-free diet unless your goal is to live unhealthily. The same could be said if you didn't take in, say, vitamin C or protein.
> 
> Also, that's actually a severe misunderstanding about plant fats being healthier than animal fats. Most animal fats are plenty good for you, and while some non-meat fats can be good (such as coconut oil), a LOT of them tend to lead to trans fats, which are the ones that clog people's arteries and kills them.


Not if you eat the source of the fat rather than just the fat itself.


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## renna (Jan 28, 2011)

Shinji Mimura said:


> See now I'm lost. Fat is a necessity for the human body, you can't just neglect it. It's on the same level as any other necessary ingredient to human functioning, and, like most necessary nutrients, it also helps the body function at a better level. You simply cannot live a fat-free diet unless your goal is to live unhealthily. The same could be said if you didn't take in, say, vitamin C or protein.


Yes, fat is necessary for the functioning of the human body. For example, unsaturated fats (Monounsaturated, Polyunsaturated & EFAs) serve vital roles -they make up 1/2 of cell membrane structure. They enhance calcium absorption and immune function. They aid in body’s synthesis of the essential fatty acids and provide a rich source of fat soluble vitamins. The list goes on!!

_BUT no one said they were going to completely omit fat from their diet or neglect it, especially in a vegetarian/vegan diet. That's impossible! _

The thing is, if you chemically isolated the different fatty acids within oils then there would be no distinction between "plant fat" and "animal fat", only saturated and unsaturated. Although all fats to some extent contain both saturated and unsaturated fatty acids, they are generally categorized by levels of saturation. So this is where it makes sense when @MsBossyPants said: "A gram of fat is a gram of fat." 

When people say plant fats are better than animal fats it is because plant oils generally contain less saturated fat than animal oils. But you have the risk and likeliness that when you consume animal fat, you will be digesting a much higher level of saturated fat. Animals preferentially produce fat fom the fat they eat. 

So what we have are fats eaten in food enter the bloodstream largely unaltered, and where aft laid down by an animal is specially formed by fat eaten in the food. What that means is that when an animal eats saturated plant fats it tends to deposit saturated plant fats. These fats (saturated we're speaking of, do not confuse this with trans fat) are not only identical to the original plant fats, they quite_ literally are_ the plant fats. The exact same lipid molecule found in the peanut or cocounut is deposited in the animal's fat cells. Again, *animals preferentially produce fat fom the fat they eat*



Shinji Mimura said:


> Also, that's actually a severe misunderstanding about plant fats being healthier than animal fats. Most animal fats are plenty good for you


See explanation above. That is why consuming fats from a plant-based diet is typically better because it can have a lower amount of fat because when an animal consumes fat, they produce even more fat. Just like us, huh?




Shinji Mimura said:


> and while some non-meat fats can be good (such as coconut oil), a LOT of them tend to lead to trans fats, which are the ones that clog people's arteries and kills them.


Let's discuss TRANS FAT: 
The_ unnatural chemical modification_ process that created trans fats goes like this: the hydrogenation process changes the position of hydrogen atoms in the fatty acid chain. Trans fatty acids or trans fats are formed when manufacturers turn liquid oils into solid fats. This modification can be done intentionally to extend more shelf stable for products, but has wreaked havoc in the bodies of those who ingest them. You listed above some effects it has on the body. 


Moving on from processed products, let's focus on trans fat in natural resources: _animals versus plants._


Various depictions of trans unsaturated fatty acids have been _detected_ in plants.* Most oil seeds used for production of edible fats* do not contain *any trans fatty acids. HOWEVER, the main trans monoenoic acids found in cows (or any other ruminant) are not found in plants. The production of trans fat takes place in the mammal by rechewing the cud to further break down plant matter and stimulate digestion known as "ruminating". Trans fatty acids are produced by microbial hydrogenation of linoleic acid and linolenic acid in the rumen. Thus concluding, trans fatty solid acids appear in both meat and milk. However, you can digest that better than what was scientifically produced. 

I'm simply trying to show you that trans fat is found in meat and dairy. Is there a list of natural foods that contain trans fat? No, there isn't one because trans fat does not exist in nature. So no, natural plant based foods do not lead to trans fat. Please study up on Monounsaturated fat, Polyunsaturated fat, and Fatty Essential Acids. 

There is much debate on this topic because scientists are not sure if it is best to consume trans fat through natural resources such as animals. ( Heck at this point, there has not been any conclusive evidence that the saturated fat in coconut is beneficial either.) However, it's their logic that if you are to consume trans fat, it would be best through eating an animal because it came through a natural source.

So, going back to the line of "Fat is fat", keep in mind that underlying statement is coming from a vegan. I bet you a nickle @MsBossyPants consumes more macronutrients, micronutrients, enzymes, vitamins and yes above all healthy fats than the typical meat eater - all because she reaches out and eats beyond the meat and diary. Therefore, she is likely consuming less damaging fat that you. I'm not picking on you but the point is, the properties contained in macronutrients, micronutrients, enzymes, fats and vitamins, works with our bodies to fight against the damages that dairy, meat & trans fat that has been known to cause. So in her diet, yes - fat is fat - because she consumes all natural plant based foods. 

I'm not standing up on my soapbox with the intent of smashing you or anyone to pieces. I'm simply trying to advocate helpful knowledge that will eradicate the myths vs facts on plant based diets versus meat, including the "bad fat vs healthy fat" argument!! 


(*For more in depth reasoning, go to US National Library of Medicine National Institutes of Health website and look up related articles.)


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## MegaTuxRacer (Sep 7, 2011)

Tip: invest in a decent blender.


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## MsBossyPants (Oct 5, 2011)

Shinji Mimura said:


> See now I'm lost. Fat is a necessity for the human body, you can't just neglect it. It's on the same level as any other necessary ingredient to human functioning, and, like most necessary nutrients, it also helps the body function at a better level. You simply cannot live a fat-free diet unless your goal is to live unhealthily. The same could be said if you didn't take in, say, vitamin C or protein.
> 
> Also, that's actually a severe misunderstanding about plant fats being healthier than animal fats. Most animal fats are plenty good for you, and while some non-meat fats can be good (such as coconut oil), a LOT of them tend to lead to trans fats, which are the ones that clog people's arteries and kills them.



I wasn't implying that I don't eat fat. Of course I do. My fat comes from plant sources. Eating the whole nut, seed, avocado, etc provides me with not only fat but also (depending on the food) varying amounts of protein, fiber and micronutrients. 

When I wrote that "a gram of fat is a gram of fat" what I was trying to say is that it's far better to eat a plain potato and handful of walnuts than it is to deep fry a potato. It's better to throw a handful of peanuts into your salad than it is to add a couple of tablespoons of a mayonnaise-based salad dressing. It's better to put olives on your salad than it is to drizzle olive oil on it. Eat the whole food, don't just consume fat to consume fat. 

Given the choice, consume a plant based fat (as those mentioned above) instead of an animal fat. There are small amounts of saturated fat contained in some nuts and seeds. You don't need to consume the large amounts found in animal products. Also you don't need to consume cholesterol. Your body makes enough on its own.

Your statement about trans fats is incorrect. Plant-based fats don't "lead to trans fats". Trans fats that contain plant-based sources are created in a laboratory by adding hydrogren molecules to liquid plant oils - hence the term "partially hydrogenated vegetable oil" This makes them stable (solid) at room temperature. They are added to commercially processed foods such as cookies, crackers, etc to extend their shelf life, and restaurants and food outlets use it to fry food. Trans fats are actually naturally occurring in small amounts in ANIMAL fat.

Avoid eating processed foods as much as possible. If it comes in a box, don't eat it because it probably contains trans fat. Most of the "foods" trans fats get added to are junk food, anyway. Don't eat that.

Source: American Heat Association.
Link: Trans Fats


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## kudi (Sep 27, 2011)

Disclaimer; I'm not a vegetarian. However I do have a friend who is, so I know things simply by exposure to it. The main tip is to basically not be afraid to experiment. Websites you should check out are for recipes, etc: vegweb & allrecipes. I've also attached a recipe for an awesome mac & cheese, which substitutes with cashews giving it a nutty flavor.


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## Shinji Mimura (Aug 1, 2012)

MsBossyPants said:


> You don't need to consume the large amounts found in animal products. Also you don't need to consume cholesterol. Your body makes enough on its own.


You do need some cholesterol in take, and while you don't NEED to consume "large amounts" of fat, you'd be better off doing so. If you trace our diet back to the ancient days of cavemen and go up until now, we survived on 10x the amount of meat we eat today.

Like I'd said earlier, it's all a question of how "healthy" do you want to be. It's sort of like how I tend to eat only twice in a day. I could do that for the rest of my life and probably be fine. Wouldn't change that it's totally unhealthy of me to eat so few each day, and will, eventually, see to it that I probably have some health problems along the way.


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## MsBossyPants (Oct 5, 2011)

Shinji Mimura said:


> You do need some cholesterol in take, and while you don't NEED to consume "large amounts" of fat, you'd be better off doing so. If you trace our diet back to the ancient days of cavemen and go up until now, we survived on 10x the amount of meat we eat today.
> 
> Like I'd said earlier, it's all a question of how "healthy" do you want to be. It's sort of like how I tend to eat only twice in a day. I could do that for the rest of my life and probably be fine. Wouldn't change that it's totally unhealthy of me to eat so few each day, and will, eventually, see to it that I probably have some health problems along the way.


I think this is how this is going to play out: I'll cite you a reference that explains that you don't have to ingest cholesterol. You'll counter with a reference from a caveman meat eating group that claims you do. We'll go back and forth. Pointless.


Agree to disagree.


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## Shinji Mimura (Aug 1, 2012)

MsBossyPants said:


> Agree to disagree.


What we can agree to disagree on is what constitutes "healthy", for that is an opinion.

But as far as what is good for the body, that is pure, scientific fact. There is a body of research and medical literature that supports what the body needs to perform at its peak. There is no such thing as agreeing to disagree when it comes to the realm of what is factual versus what is not.

Just to put this out there, I don't support anything beyond that which is factual. I'm not in cahoots with which diet is "better", as I don't view this as some political meat-eating vs vegetarian vs vegan.

Just the science. That's what I care about.


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## Alima (Mar 28, 2010)

Here's an interesting discussion from a different forum for those interested: Was meat-eating essential for human evolution?

A few more interesting links:
Meat-eating and human evolution. - Katharine Milton
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/09/magazine/09starch.html
Vegetarian Network Victoria - Article: Human evolution hinged on starches


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## MegaTuxRacer (Sep 7, 2011)

Shinji Mimura said:


> What we can agree to disagree on is what constitutes "healthy", for that is an opinion.
> 
> But as far as what is good for the body, that is pure, scientific fact. There is a body of research and medical literature that supports what the body needs to perform at its peak. There is no such thing as agreeing to disagree when it comes to the realm of what is factual versus what is not.
> 
> ...


In your first two sentences, you made a distinction between two things that mean the same thing. Your argument is worthless.


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## Shinji Mimura (Aug 1, 2012)

MegaTuxRacer said:


> In your first two sentences, you made a distinction between two things that mean the same thing. Your argument is worthless.


In the first sentence, when I said healthy, I meant lifestyle-wise. That's debatable.

In the second sentence, I'm talking about what can be confirmed to be good for the human body. High fiber? That's good for the body. We have medical literature to back that claim. Potassium? Good for the body. That can be supported by knowledge.

Try reading between the lines next time; explaining myself is cumbersome.


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## renna (Jan 28, 2011)

Found these videos today, thought they would be very helpful for those trying to transition into being vegan. 
This woman shows the 'staples' in her refrigerator and cupboards. She explains how she uses the ingredients to which helps a lot  

Chilled staples:
Part I




Part II




____
Stored/shelved staples:
Part I




Part II


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## Basil (Sep 12, 2012)

Those videos are an amazing find, renna. Thank you so much for sharing them! This thread is only four pages in and there's already a lot of fantastic information here.

A few sites I've found extremely helpful:
(1) Savvy Vegetarian (tons of great recipes)
(2) HappyCow (mostly vegan, fantastic articles on nutrition)
(3) 100 Days of Real Food (not vegetarian/vegan, but an amazing resource on eating whole/unprocessed foods)

I wish I could say I shared MegaTuxRacer's love for lentils. I know they're good for me, but I have such a hard time eating them. I'm giving a new recipe a go tonight, so we'll see how that turns out. If anyone has any favorite lentil recipes I'd love to hear them!


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## renna (Jan 28, 2011)

Hey @Basil thanks for those links. I love Happycow even though I have only seen it once (a study article); I'm glad to see the actual homepage and what it is all about. Also, thanks for supplying the other two links. For those who would like to be vegan, it's easier for them to make a slow transition, so the more resources the better! Or same concept... those who want to be vegetarian - the more resources the easier!


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## MsBossyPants (Oct 5, 2011)

Basil said:


> I wish I could say I shared MegaTuxRacer's love for lentils. I know they're good for me, but I have such a hard time eating them. I'm giving a new recipe a go tonight, so we'll see how that turns out. If anyone has any favorite lentil recipes I'd love to hear them!


Not all of these are vegetarian/vegan, but you can make substitutions to make them so.



17 Lentil Recipes We Love (PHOTOS)

You'll have to click on the link (in blue) next to the picture to get the recipes.


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## Philosophaser Song Boy (Jan 16, 2011)

LOL @ people's misconceptions of processed food.


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## Philosophaser Song Boy (Jan 16, 2011)

I just hope yall are getting enough B12, and Iron... and Lipids (Yes, despite what you may believe, fat is necessary to live and function normally (Yes, despite what you may believe about that, this does include saturated fat too)).

I would love to try vegetarianism again, but I could never go vegan... too many health risks.


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## Danse Macabre (Oct 30, 2009)

Premium G said:


> I would love to try vegetarianism again, but I could never go vegan... too many health risks.


I swear that's such a common misconception. As long as you're getting your B12 and Omega 3 and 6 you're good to go.


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## Philosophaser Song Boy (Jan 16, 2011)

Danse Macabre said:


> I swear that's such a common misconception. As long as you're getting your B12 and Omega 3 and 6 you're good to go.


As a Food Science major, I have taken some nutrition courses, that I passed with As... I just hope you get enough iron and dont develop anemia.


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## renna (Jan 28, 2011)

Premium G said:


> As a Food Science major, I have taken some nutrition courses, that I passed with As... I just hope you get enough iron and dont develop anemia.


Food Science major!! That's really cool 
I think you would appreciate this: Essentials of Vegan Nutrition and a Vegan Diet


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## Danse Macabre (Oct 30, 2009)

Premium G said:


> As a Food Science major, I have taken some nutrition courses, that I passed with As... I just hope you get enough iron and dont develop anemia.


I've been vegetarian since I was six, and vegan for almost 12 months now and I have regular blood tests to ensure that I'm fine, and I am. If anything I think being vegan makes me less likely to be deficient in things, because I really have to think about what I'm eating. It takes careful planning to make sure I'm getting variety and keeping things interesting. 

Before I was vegan, I am positive I was far less healthy. And I know so many people who don't give a second thought to what they're eating. They're the ones that are more likely to be deficient of vital nutrients, in my opinion.


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## renna (Jan 28, 2011)

Danse Macabre said:


> Before I was vegan, I am positive I was far less healthy. And I know so many people who don't give a second thought to what they're eating. They're the ones that are more likely to be deficient of vital nutrients, in my opinion.


Could not of said this better myself.


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## PlacentaCake (Jun 14, 2012)

I've been a vegetarian for 12 years. Where do you live? In America - Quorn is a good brand for fake chicken, because it is really just vegetable protein. Boca has the best "sausage links" and "burger patties", Morning star has the best "sausage patties", but really TOFU is your friend. Almonds are great, but any nut is a good choice. Being a vegan is good, but I don't do it all the time, because dairy is another way I get protein. 

Of course, in order to be a vegetarian, you must love veggies, I eat a lot of them. Kale! Learn how to cook it and love it. I like to eat it with leeks. There are also Kale chips out there which are really tasty. My fiancé calls it rabbit food, but I love my salads. I like the balsamic dressing from Newmans with spring greens, a mix of veggies, and blueberries for some sweet. I am an epic salad builder.


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## Basil (Sep 12, 2012)

christicake said:


> but really TOFU is your friend.


Soy is a bit of a contentious topic at the moment, with a lot of posts like these floating around the Internet. I ate it regularly when I lived in Asia because I could buy it from a local family that made it, but I tend to avoid it now that I'm back home. For those who don't want to read the article, the reasons she lists for avoiding soy are that it disrupts our hormones and thyroid, and that it contains anti-nutrients like protease inhibitors and phytic acid. People in the comments also mentioned that the majority of soybeans grown these days are GMO.

I haven't done much research on this myself, so I can't say one way or the other whether her opinion is correct, but was curious if anyone else has looked into this? Does her argument hold water? I'd also be interested in hearing about others' personal experiences with eating soy.


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## renna (Jan 28, 2011)

Yeah when I first became a vegetarian three years ago, I was drinking a lot of soy milk and eating tofu. I was getting killer headaches and my periods were worse. So I laid off - turns out too, I'm a bit allergic to unfermented soy. So I stay away. I can eat fermented soy and have no problems, like tempeh.

Not sure if that testimony(data) tells you anything in regards to soy affecting hormones. Honestly, I think an over abundance in ANYTHING is going to set off levels in your body one way or another.


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## MsBossyPants (Oct 5, 2011)

Basil said:


> Soy is a bit of a contentious topic at the moment, with a lot of posts like these floating around the Internet. I ate it regularly when I lived in Asia because I could buy it from a local family that made it, but I tend to avoid it now that I'm back home. For those who don't want to read the article, the reasons she lists for avoiding soy are that it disrupts our hormones and thyroid, and that it contains anti-nutrients like protease inhibitors and phytic acid. People in the comments also mentioned that the majority of soybeans grown these days are GMO.
> 
> I haven't done much research on this myself, so I can't say one way or the other whether her opinion is correct, *but was curious if anyone else has looked into this? Does her argument hold water? I'd also be interested in hearing about others' personal experiences with eating soy*.


I'm offering this as my opinion based on my research into soy.

When I first decided to go vegan, I looked into soy. There are a lot of articles like the one you linked, that talk about the dangers of soy. They always start out the same: talk about soy being phyto-estrogen, the effects of excessive consumption of soy and how hypothyroidism is on the rise. But, there never is a cited study or a clear link that ties it to small or moderate amounts of soy consumption. I have yet to find a specific study where vegans (who tend to consume more soy than the general public) have been found to have more incidences of hypothyroidism and the link to soy consumption. 

If you look at cited studies, many times the studies focus on soy milk, and can be linked back to the dairy industry. It's no surprise that the dairy industry has a stake in getting people to avoid soy milk and return to drinking cow's milk. Should you give a baby soy milk? no. You shouldn't give them cow's milk either. Human babies should drink human breast milk. Just sayin'. 

Having said that ... Opt for non-GMO soy products. Use them in moderation. Don't think of soy milk as beverage. I think the mistake many people make is to substitute soy milk for the three glass of cow's milk they used to drink. If you are drinking it to get the added calcium, or B-12 .. think about it ... the vitamins have been added to the beverage. Skip the soy milk and take a B-12 supplement and a calcium supplement or better yet, add more calcium rich foods to your diet instead. Add small amounts soy milk to your oatmeal, put it in your coffee, or add a bit to a frozen fruit smoothie as a milk substitute, but don't guzzle it. 

Tofu - again opt for non-GMO producs whenever possible. Don't eat it every day. Eat a variey of protein-rich foods. 

I think the bigger danger may be in the "fake meats" made from isolated soy proteins. The jury is still out as to whether these are healthful. More research is needed. These are processed foods that contain a high concentration of soy. I don't eat a lot of processed food. I don't eat fake meats more than once a week. 

Soy milk, store-bought tofu, and isolated soy protein products are all processed foods. I think it's best to eat foods in their natural state, free from additives and excessive processing. Want some soy? Throw a handful of non-GMO edamame in your salad. Use the rest in moderation. There are plenty of other protein-rich plant-based foods out there.


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## Philosophaser Song Boy (Jan 16, 2011)

Danse Macabre said:


> Before I was vegan, I am positive I was far less healthy. And I know so many people who don't give a second thought to what they're eating. They're the ones that are more likely to be deficient of vital nutrients, in my opinion.


I appreciate your input! I think information and education is crucial to becoming a vegetarian/vegan. I know many people who have tried, including myself, and were not fully educated on the matter. The results were disappointing, due to the deficiencies developed from not receiving adequate nutrition. Though it is not impossible, again, education is important, and you really must dedicate thought and decision towards receiving proper nutrition. Also, region plays a huge part in this. I live in the South-Eastern US, where Organic options are slim to none, and whatever is available is extremely pricey. My year-long commitment to vegetarianism (because I refuse to go vegetarian if it is not organic) I feel contributed to my year-long struggle to depression, due to the fact that I just was not getting proper nutrition.

Someday when I get outta here, I will make that effort again, though.


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## PlacentaCake (Jun 14, 2012)

Basil said:


> Soy is a bit of a contentious topic at the moment, with a lot of posts like these floating around the Internet. I ate it regularly when I lived in Asia because I could buy it from a local family that made it, but I tend to avoid it now that I'm back home. For those who don't want to read the article, the reasons she lists for avoiding soy are that it disrupts our hormones and thyroid, and that it contains anti-nutrients like protease inhibitors and phytic acid. People in the comments also mentioned that the majority of soybeans grown these days are GMO.
> 
> I haven't done much research on this myself, so I can't say one way or the other whether her opinion is correct, but was curious if anyone else has looked into this? Does her argument hold water? I'd also be interested in hearing about others' personal experiences with eating soy.


I personally don't eat it often because I know about soy and women, but I didn't know it affected men as well. I was really writing to OP. I am really sorry. I should never have given someone advice I wouldn't have taken myself! I usually eat vegetable protein without soy and GMO's. 

That is the last post I type when I am tired, I'll tell you that! Sorry for misinforming you, OP!


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## Boolean11 (Jun 11, 2012)

I'm a "People Eating Tasty Animals" member, this just won't do.


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## MsBossyPants (Oct 5, 2011)

Boolean11 said:


> I'm a "People Eating Tasty Animals" member, this just won't do.


Then perhaps you should troll somewhere else.


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## Philosophaser Song Boy (Jan 16, 2011)

Has anyone ever had pork jowls? they are better than bacon... Scout's honor!

But also, Indian cuisine has many vegetarian options that are quite delish!


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## Basil (Sep 12, 2012)

@renna and @MsBossyPants: Thank you so much for sharing your experiences and research. That was really helpful! All soy products seem to be lumped together in the articles I've read, so I think you both made an important point in distinguishing between different types of soy products. I'll definitely be keeping this in mind the next time I'm at the store.



christicake said:


> I personally don't eat it often because I know about soy and women, but I didn't know it affected men as well. I was really writing to OP. I am really sorry. I should never have given someone advice I wouldn't have taken myself! I usually eat vegetable protein without soy and GMO's.
> 
> That is the last post I type when I am tired, I'll tell you that! Sorry for misinforming you, OP!


I'm really sorry if I gave you the impression that your advice was somehow bad or wrong. That definitely wasn't my intention! I was just genuinely curious what people thought about soy since there are such strong opposing opinions about it. Obviously you know your own body best, so I would never presume to tell you (or anyone else!) what works for you. I appreciate hearing your thoughts on being vegetarian. It's an ongoing learning process for me, so every contribution helps me evaluate and improve my own eating choices. roud:


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## MsBossyPants (Oct 5, 2011)

Basil said:


> @_renna_ and @_MsBossyPants_: Thank you so much for sharing your experiences and research. That was really helpful! All soy products seem to be lumped together in the articles I've read, so I think you both made an important point in distinguishing between different types of soy products. I'll definitely be keeping this in mind the next time I'm at the store ...


 @Basil, here is some more information about soy for you:

This is from the website I frequently cite in my "Ask a Vegan" thread. It's author is Jack Norris, who is both a registered dietitian and a practicing vegan. His website is the best I've found for information on vegan diets and related food information. His book (shown on the webpage) "Vegan For Life" is an excellent guide to proper vegan nutrition. Much of the general information on the website is from the book. 

I like this website (and the book) because the information given is backed up with numerous clinical studies and extensively referenced.

Soy: What's the Harm?


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## Boolean11 (Jun 11, 2012)

MsBossyPants said:


> Then perhaps you should troll somewhere else.


I don't get vegetarianism it seems as if people always have some weird belief attached to their justification, plus they look down on us and it doesn't make sense.


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## blackpeppergeneral (Nov 7, 2011)

Meat is an easy avoidance since I barely ate it as I grew older, my mom doesn't eat meat as well.
I tend to crave cheese so I have avoided the Vegan route. 

Nonetheless, I have to agree that my current eating set up definitely makes for a better physical state.

Glad to to read that your progress is going well thus far @MegaTuxRacer.


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