# The stereotypical accuracy of Tarot with MBTI.



## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

I've realized that on a stereotypical level Tarot and MBTI mix very well.
They both are just as accurate in other words.
This is because you can correlate them directly with each other.
I've had a thread about it before, but would like further feedback since,
I'm more comfortable with both MBTI and the Tarot now.

The temperaments:

NT = Air/Sword
NF = Water/Cup
SP = Fire/Wood
SJ = Earth/Pentacle/Coin

The types:

INTJ = King of swords
ENTP = Queen of swords
ENTJ = Knight of swords
INTP = Page of swords

ENFJ = King of cups
INFJ = Queen of cups
INFP = Knight of cups
ENFP = Page of cups

ESTP = King of wands
ISFP = Queen of wands
ESFP = Knight of wands
ISTP = Page of wands

ESTJ = King of pentacles
ESFJ = Queen of pentacles
ISTJ = Knight of pentacles
ISFJ = Page of pentacles

When you think about the elements the different types fall in under, 
type conflicts get a pretty symbolic meaning.
Earth and Fire for example don't mix very well unless there is ample material to burn for fire
and the earth can be made into pottery and other stuff with ample supply of air. 
Water in the mix can temper the flames if it comes out of control. 
This can be interpreted on several levels obviously.

What do you guys think/feel/observe/intuit about this?


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## MissJordan (Dec 21, 2010)

> and the earth can be made into pottery and other stuff with ample supply of air.


Except you need water to mix with the earth, and fire to heat the kiln.
And last I checked fire + water more often ends up with one extinguished and the other boiled.
Also, NTs and SPs should be one of the best combinations, since Air is necessary to Fire after all.

You're selectively reasoning, you're looking at something and wanting to see how it connects and completely ignoring how it doesn't.
The four elements is itself a dated concept that only survives because people peddle it symbolically, as a result the things based around it runs purely on emotions rather than appealling to actual deconstructive thought.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

MissJordan said:


> Except you need water to mix with the earth, and fire to heat the kiln.
> And last I checked fire + water more often ends up with one extinguished and the other boiled.
> Also, NTs and SPs should be one of the best combinations, since Air is necessary to Fire after all.
> 
> ...


This is very true.
It is a very flexible way of looking at it and can mean many different things to different people.
And that is a strength in my view cause you get to plot in the events in your life into a meaningful context.
What I trying to convey is that MBTI and Tarot is so similar that we could basically say that it is the same
mechanism that is happening to a person when they get a Tarot reading or read a type profile.
It is a very emotional process and it can be helpful for people to project their feeling onto something that
gives their emotions a larger context.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

MissJordan said:


> Except you need water to mix with the earth, and fire to heat the kiln.
> And last I checked fire + water more often ends up with one extinguished and the other boiled.
> Also, NTs and SPs should be one of the best combinations, since Air is necessary to Fire after all.
> 
> ...


Okay that was my first reaction telling you that I don't care if it is inaccurate since that is the whole point of stereotypes.
In fact my stance is that if you are going to deal with such a level of correctness you have to discard MBTI altogether, because MBTI is pretty flawed.
But not on the surface and that is what gives MBTI it's appeal in the first place.
It seems to be correct even though it is a severely degraded version of Jung.

I think that whatever you can do with MBTI you can do with Tarot since they correlate on the surface.
And since both is about surface appearances and any depth beyond the obvious deflates both instantly,
then all you need is the surface and that is a smooth nice surface to work with.
A tool basically to deal with people and their lives on a superficial, but still meaningful level.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

I have always associated with the symbolism of the only card to appear twice;The Fool. The alpha, the omega. The card that exists both within and without. Only the fool may challenge the wisdom of kings and holymen. The fool represents the journey from ignorance, to wisdom. Also, the fool is at once a teacher, a wit, a juggler, a buffoon, a confidant, a storyteller, an entertainer, and a source of wonderment. Nobody takes the fool seriously, but it is the fool who always laughs first, and last.

It is also why Don Quixote is one of my favorite literary characters.


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Nice, tho I'd personally go
TJ - air/wind (getting things going)
FJ - earth (stable)
TP - water/ice (opens every crack, takes away the unstable)
FP - fire (passion)


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

Acerbusvenator said:


> Nice, tho I'd personally go
> TJ - air/wind (getting things going)
> FJ - earth (stable)
> TP - water/ice (opens every crack, takes away the unstable)
> FP - fire (passion)


That is a good perspective shift to have if needed.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

I should also like to point out (or reiterate) that the Major Arcana are all archetypes. They are a part of the "collective unconscious" as well as world mythology.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

tanstaafl28 said:


> I should also like to point out (or reiterate) that the Major Arcana are all archetypes. They are a part of the "collective unconscious" as well as world mythology.


Good point, it is easy to get lost in the coins and swords and such of the minor arcana and forget the significance of the major.
The symbol of it are very deep and al-encompassing in my view. Still I wonder how they got mixed up in the first place.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

Indeed, it is not their fortune-telling aspects that truly interests me, it is the symbolism.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

tanstaafl28 said:


> Indeed, it is not their fortune-telling aspects that truly interests me, it is the symbolism.


indeed as Jung said the symbol is the key to the unconscious.
To me tarot has a therapeutic effect where I get to encounter symbols that evoke stuff that I have previously discarded.


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## The Alternate (Jan 14, 2013)

Yeah, I thought you were going to show types in terms of The Devil, The Tower, etc. You could really get carried away doing it this way.


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## akaskar (Nov 13, 2012)

hornet said:


> I've realized that on a stereotypical level Tarot and MBTI mix very well.
> They both are just as accurate in other words.
> This is because you can correlate them directly with each other.
> I've had a thread about it before, but would like further feedback since,
> ...


I'm quite happy to be the king of no matter what :tongue: but on the other hand, how would INTPs feel to be our pages? :shocked:


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

I think it mostly relates to it like this, rather than any specific group:

Cups: Feeling/ethics
Swords: Thinking/logic
Pentacles: Sensing 
Staves: Intuition

I say this as an ex-practitioner as I lost my deck due to a water accident but I was thinking quite a bit about this and what the elements represent. 

With that said, while I understand the significance of the minor arcana I find that the general arcana has more archetypal and less specific symbolism in it that makes it more interesting. I particularly like the card Death and The Tower because they both represent destruction but destruction that will lead to change.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

The Alternate said:


> Yeah, I thought you were going to show types in terms of The Devil, The Tower, etc. You could really get carried away doing it this way.


Well that would be a bit excessive...
Anyway only the suits correlate to the MBTI.


akaskar said:


> I'm quite happy to be the king of no matter what :tongue: but on the other hand, how would INTPs feel to be our pages? :shocked:


Well someone have to be the page. Might as well be someone else 



LeaT said:


> I think it mostly relates to it like this, rather than any specific group:
> 
> Cups: Feeling/ethics
> Swords: Thinking/logic
> ...


I like the perspective you have on it.
I find that they all are valid ways of looking at it.

Btw I've gotten over what I wrote to you about a while back.
I was a bit paranoidish at the time so don't take it too seriously.


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