# I find porn disgusting....is there something wrong with me?



## Enfpleasantly (Mar 5, 2012)

Chipps said:


> I ain't mad at this comment. +1
> 
> 
> Maybe if she separates he will realize that she's serious about it. Telling someone to get over it is disrespectful to them as a partner especially when counselling could help.


Well, I think an ultimatum might really piss him off and make him feel belittled. IMO she should just talk to him about it without making him feel like an animal for watching it.


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## Yardiff Bey (Jun 5, 2011)

Enfpleasantly said:


> Well, I think an ultimatum might really piss him off and make him feel belittled. IMO she should just talk to him about it without making him feel like an animal for watching it.


Dropping an ultimatum shows that you have no hand.


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## cyamitide (Jul 8, 2010)

lek373 said:


> I just cannot understand why he needs to look at this stuff. It reminds me of animals. What is sex without love and emotion behind it? I wish he would come to me to fullfill his sexual appetite instead of looking at that shit! Maybe I put to much pressure on him emotionally(I am INFJ and he is INTP btw), so the porn is an easy out for him. I think he knows he can remain emotionally unavailable towards me, while still taking care of his sexual urges with the porn. Is this behavior more typical in thinking males since they are less in touch with sharing their feelings? I love my husband and I want us to be open and honest with each other. I think open communication and honesty is healthier for a couples sex life than watching porn together. What do yall think?


May be you should see a relationship couselor before this turns into a major issue. There might be some things your husband isn't telling you out of feeling of guilt and seeing how much it upsets you, that he may be more comfortable telling to the therapist.

(fyi I think having sex 2 times a week is too infrequent for most guys)


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## Enfpleasantly (Mar 5, 2012)

cyamitide said:


> May be you should see a relationship couselor before this turns into a major issue. There might be some things your husband isn't telling you out of feeling of guilt and seeing how much it upsets you, that he may be more comfortable telling to the therapist.
> *
> (fyi I think having sex 2 times a week is too infrequent for most guys)*


Except for the poor married chaps getting it less.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

OP -- So, you want a way to approach him, well I would have him read studies on how its in fact harmful to a relationship. I would find it very difficult to argue with that myself.

Also, I had a long-distance relationship, and I don't date guys who are going to use porn, so what I did was take photos of myself. You can get creative with them.. find out what kind of fetish hes into and take photos like that for the times that you don't feel like having sex. Then it won't feel like hes getting off to other women - because hes not. I know for a fact this works for some guys.. others are hooked on the variety in porn after they experience the de-stimulation problem discussed in some of that research, but some aren't to that point yet.

Many men are perfectly willing to pleasure themselves to the photos of their significant other -- and theres many who can get off just fantasizing about their s/o even without photos/videos (and I know this because I'm nosy enough to ask people about thing. : P)

And in looking for information on this topic, do not take to heart, the things said by some men who take the "all men who say they aren't like me are lying" approach. There are all kinds of attitudes on sex, and not all men are programmed the same way.


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## MaWhip (Jun 7, 2012)

lek373 said:


> Warning this might be TMI...


No not TMI. And there is nothing wrong with you for not liking porn and not liking your husband to watch it. A lot of women are in a similar boat as you and there's nothing wrong with them either. It's not for everyone and on top of that there are as many types of porn and erotica as there are people and individual tastes. 

But, it sounds like this is about much more than simply your husband enjoying dirty movies.



> Alright, so my husband watches a good bit of porn.


By himself? What kind of porn? How much is a "good bit"? How does he 'sneak away' to do this?



> For some reason I find it repulsive! I know there are tons of women who enjoy watching it with their husbands and it can open up your sex life, blah blah. I think that's horse shit! It is completely objectifying. The women in the movies are treated as things and reduced to nothing more than masturbatory aids.


That's a fair assessment. Particularly since we haven't seen the actual porn you're talking about but it's probably the average 'made for heterosexual males'. If this is how you feel, it's how you feel. There is also "women made porn" for other male loving women. Those focus more on the relationships, story line, and scenario and generally have higher production values. They are made more like typical romance movies than typical porn meant for straight men. It's possibly you'd like that more. Maybe not. Maybe your husband wouldn't be into it either. It's worth talking about when you finally do talk about it with him.



> He is usually pretty good at hiding this stuff from me(he's a software engineer and skilled with computers). I watched them out of curiosity and could only handle a few minutes before I had to click away...*When I confront him about it he usually denies it*,which is insulting.


That is the big red flag to me. Why can't he be honest with you and engage in a conversation?



> My husband and I have sex on average once or twice a week and I usually get off every time.


Honestly for a married couple with a child and for the time you've been together, that doesn't sound too shabby to me. And every couple's needs are different. That in itself doesn't raise any flags to me. No sex or 24/7 sex + secret porn habit would be a flag.



> I consider myself a highly sexual person, but I only enjoy sex with someone I love and trust. I just cannot understand why he needs to look at this stuff. It reminds me of animals. What is sex without love and emotion behind it? I wish he would come to me to fullfill his sexual appetite instead of looking at that shit!


That sounds like something you should tell him directly, even if he denies watching porn. And something you can bring up in counseling. There are so many possible scenarios and explanations for what is going on, including he wants to try different things in bed, to using it as an emotional escape like you mentioned, to feeling a lot of shame around sex and having difficulty speaking of it, to being overly conflict avoidant with you in general, etc. 



> *I think he knows he can remain emotionally unavailable towards me*, while still taking care of his sexual urges with the porn.


Again, I don't think it's the porn that's the problem, the porn is a crutch or a symptom. If you feel your husband is emotionally unavailable he would be this way (perhaps more) if you blacklisted porn from the house.



> Is this behavior more typical in thinking males since they are less in touch with sharing their feelings? I love my husband and I want us to be open and honest with each other. *I think open communication and honesty is healthier for a couples sex life than watching porn together*. What do yall think?


I don't think the two are mutually exclusive but you need the first half much more than the second half. I wish you luck in speaking with your husband and a counselor is not a bad idea. Even if you found his secret porn disgusting, I would recommend entering any discussion with an open mind and reassure him that you're not judging him as a person or as a lover while still being honest that what you saw was not your cup of tea and you can't imagine deriving any pleasure from watching it with your husband. And like what you've said here, that you are aiming for the best for both of you as a couple, and not blaming him for anything. I think that's the best starting point.

This is not an uncommon problem and lots of men and women work out a resolution they can both live with. 

Good luck!


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## The King Of Dreams (Aug 18, 2010)

lek373 said:


> Warning this might be TMI...
> Alright, so my husband watches a good bit of porn. For some reason I find it repulsive! I know there are tons of women who enjoy watching it with their husbands and it can open up your sex life, blah blah. I think that's horse shit! It is completely objectifying. The women in the movies are treated as things and reduced to nothing more than masturbatory aids. The porn stars seem dissociated from their feelings, and unreal. I've stumbled upon his porn more times than I would like. He is usually pretty good at hiding this stuff from me(he's a software engineer and skilled with computers). I watched them out of curiosity and could only handle a few minutes before I had to click away. The only feelings it elicited in me were of anger and disgust. I get this lonley, resentful feeling that I cannot shake off for days. When I confront him about it he usually denies it,which is insulting. There isn't some mysterious porn ghost coming into our house and using his computer.Am I being unreasonable? My husband and I have sex on average once or twice a week and I usually get off every time. I consider myself a highly sexual person, but I only enjoy sex with someone I love and trust. I just cannot understand why he needs to look at this stuff. It reminds me of animals. What is sex without love and emotion behind it? I wish he would come to me to fullfill his sexual appetite instead of looking at that shit! Maybe I put to much pressure on him emotionally(I am INFJ and he is INTP btw), so the porn is an easy out for him. I think he knows he can remain emotionally unavailable towards me, while still taking care of his sexual urges with the porn. Is this behavior more typical in thinking males since they are less in touch with sharing their feelings? I love my husband and I want us to be open and honest with each other. I think open communication and honesty is healthier for a couples sex life than watching porn together. What do yall think?


I think you're right for feeling this.


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## Yardiff Bey (Jun 5, 2011)

cyamitide said:


> (fyi I think having sex 2 times a week is too infrequent for most guys)





Enfpleasantly said:


> Except for the poor married chaps getting it less.


On a side-note, sex is good for the health and fitness. When I was having it twice a day, I was very lean and muscular as a result.


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## saibot (May 21, 2012)

Promethea said:


> Many men are perfectly willing to pleasure themselves to the photos of their significant other -- and theres many who can get off just fantasizing about their s/o even without photos/videos (and I know this because I'm nosy enough to ask people about thing. : P)


I would like to stress that this is definitely a very viable solution for at least some men and is actually what I would have suggested if I had been quicker here. It does require a great deal of trust, though, considering you give him access to very private photos/videos of yourself, so it should not be done lightly. That being said, he is your husband so I do not think he will end up doing any shenanigans with them (well, except masturbating to it himself, but that would be the point). It can actually be a quite romantic present in a kinky way.


Some more random thoughts, from me:

As dissapointing as it might sound, sometimes men do not have the energy/motivation/mood to actually take the time to have an extended sexual encounter every time they are aroused, even with their SO, but still want to get off. What do you prefer:



Even when he is not actually in the mood force himself to do foreplay, take his time with the penetration, the works, but in a way that will probably leave you both a bit unsatisfied and him pressured?
Have him tell you to turn around, bend over, pull down your pants and that it won't take long, so don't worry?
Have him masturbate to erotic material (possibly of you, as suggested above)?


It is not pretty and I can understand where you are coming from. I am a male INFJ, I can see both sides of the issue, but I think being realistic will be best here.


On the porn:

There is a *huge* variety of porn on the market, from quite sick and twisted shit to stuff that is basically a romance in which they actually show the sex between the lovers. You might want to try to look into the later and see if you might be able to compromise about what kind of pornography he watches. I am quite sure you could find porn that is not quite as reprehensible to your sensibilities than what he might watch on his own. 

That being said, I definitely feel that he has not been very forthcoming at all from what I read here. Unfortunately, you are the NF in the relationship. In relationships it often falls to us NFs to reach out, for better or worse.


If he shows himself absolutely unable to compromise or communicate than there is a very fundamental problem there.


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## lek373 (May 25, 2012)

Thank you all for the responses. It really helps me put things into perspective.:happy:


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## JackParrish (May 5, 2012)

Promethea said:


> OP -- So, you want a way to approach him, well I would have him read studies on how its in fact harmful to a relationship. I would find it very difficult to argue with that myself.
> 
> Also, I had a long-distance relationship, and I don't date guys who are going to use porn, so what I did was take photos of myself. You can get creative with them.. find out what kind of fetish hes into and take photos like that for the times that you don't feel like having sex. Then it won't feel like hes getting off to other women - because hes not. I know for a fact this works for some guys.. others are hooked on the variety in porn after they experience the de-stimulation problem discussed in some of that research, but some aren't to that point yet.
> 
> ...



First of all there is a lot that is good about this post. So please don't assume I see no value in it. Also, this will be (another) long response. So if anyone doesn't like reading length you may prefer to pass this bit of drivel right over. 

1. I don't think a science route will do any good. There are multiple reasons for this. 

For one, there is a lot of competing science, and very little scientific understanding of the issues involved. I am a HUGE proponent of science, but I also willingly embrace it's limitations. It wasn't 10ish years ago that the widest psychology standards amended their position that homosexuality was a deviant condition that required active treatment. And people who will willingly admit science knows little of love can somehow conclude that it can understand the intersection of sexuality and love and what makes them both flourish or wither. 

The fact is, people have always had desires and rich fantasy lives, but it wasn't until Alfred Kinsey that it began to be openly studied by the more rigorous institutions. So we cannot really compare what was and what is now, because there was no constant. 

According to much of that research there are many types of relationships that should not be healthy--and yet they are. Those who consume a lot of porn. Those in polyamorous relationships. And many others. 

The fact is that relationships are an intersection of many socially complex factors that science has little power to really study and determine CAUSALITY over various correlations. How can we measure the happiness lost for negotiations about porn compared to the happiness lost by allowing it to cause a divorce? And do we compound it by the happiness lost by the children involved? How do you take a ratio of units of love and happiness? I'm afraid that science on these matters has many holes that still generally get filled with assumptions that flow from personal bias. 

This is why the science approach is meaningless... it won't take a phd from MIT to google and find competing reports. You are not going to win this on a science level, or on a porn level. Because it's about the totality of factors that affect a couple, not porn alone. 

Even in this there is likely an intersection of (on both sides), insecurities, previous experiences, body issues, control issues, sexual chemicals, missed expectations, conflicting sexual motivations (and thus moral attributions), and misunderstandings which could be effecting the relationship with or without today's porn issue. 

2. Speaking again to Lek373, there are two metaphors I would use here, and I don't mean to be cheesy or sugary here. I'm as serious as a heart attack, and use these metaphors only as a way to take some hard and complicated ideas and give them in a bit more digestible form. 

The first is an old paradox that we all wrestle with but don't often consciously think about. An old myth talks about the ship of Thesius. Essentially, he was out on the water for so long that in the general course of replacing boards on the ship he'd eventually replaced all of them at least once. And it left the question, was it the same ship? Did the same ship came home that left? At what point was it a different ship? At the last board, or sometime before? When is a thing the essence of itself even if all the orignal pieces have been replaced or have changed?

I see the ship as more of a coordinate of a thing in time and space. It had a purpose, and that purpose defined it as much as any specific board. And that purpose drew together a crew of people who saw it through, and as long as they were together on that ship (an organizational force), then the essence of the thing was there. 

In the case of this relationship you are defined much more by your purpose than you are by any specific arguments and behaviors. Because people change a lot over time. Our sexuality is different at 30 than it was at 18. And at 45 than at 30. And at 80 than at 45. In many ways, the peson you're with has changed so many boards that we often wonder "are they the same person I married?" But you are going through the same process. It's you, too, who may or not be the same thing that arrives home. But if you stay a coordinate in time, organized together, moving toward a similar purpose in life, then the essence of the thing you left home in still exists. 

Why does this matter? Because you cannot discuss your feeling about future sexuality "before marriage" and expect it to hold. We change. But what is your purpose? Is your purpose to be a good partner through life, to care for them as life pulls us into a state of disorganization, and to see them emotionally and sexually fulfilled? And is he of the same purpose with you? Because if so then both of you can find a way to use porn, celibacy, or any other cluster of activities to be stronger than you were before. Or you can use any otherwise good and healthy thing to rip the boards off and sink the ship. Ask any divorced person how nasty it can be to even have healthy things used against you. 

The last metaphor is that of keeping a garden, and specifically, a rose bush. Do you know how many people I've met that believe that roses only bloom once a year? And yet, most can bloom regularly. They require pruning, which is a tired bit of language but in practice most have no idea what it is. Essentially, you must cut down at the nearest joint below the dead bloom--something that was once beautiful but had it's time and went. You cut these off and give the roots enough energy to rebloom (generally food and water) and voila! Pretty soon the bush that only exploded with color once a year explodes with new blooms like biological fireworks across the summer. 

The point is that just because something worked for year 2 of marriage doesn't mean it will work later--it will see it's time come and then fade. None of us are immune from this. It's romantic to think some things are the same forever, but it's not true. Almost everything has a moment and then fades, and if it exists later it is because it was renewed. You can mourn the change and the loss, but in the end if you don't tend the damn garden you won't get much more out of it. Your sexual thoughts at day 1 of marriage likely won't be the same at 600, and so on throughout your life. 

Nor will HIS. 

Must you accept porn? Not at all. That is our autonomous choice, and you have no less human dignity in this than anyone else. But there is something to be said for both of you clipping the expired buds regularly and evaluating WHY you held one belief or another, and look at if a new thing might not be able to take it's place--including not participating in some things but merely accepting them in the other so long as they tend the relationship even more carefully in other ways that help you to feel complete AS A WHOLE and not just on an issue by issue basis. 

Again, not just talking about porn, but more wholly about the totality of his and your evolving sexuality across your lives together. If your concern for each other is great enough, all in all, and for your children and family and life together, then you can find middle grounds that respects the "thesius' ship paradox" at play in your relationship. 

If this base is not there, then the relationship will not survive _even the good things that happen to it_. If the purpose is not there it will take on water until it is sunk. That is the hard truth of it. You can spend a fortune on counseling and scream at each other until the paint melts off the walls and you will still sink. 

Is your purpose to see him sexually fulfilled? Is his purpose to see you emotionally fulfilled? This matters infinitely more than pictures of naked people on a computer.


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## Fizz (Nov 13, 2010)

Steel Magnolia said:


> I'm a bit confused as to why MBTI type is being brought into the equation, here???


People use it as an excuse


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## Robert Foster (Jun 15, 2012)

lek373 said:


> If men separate sex from love and women are the only ones who have to be in love to enjoy sex then maybe becoming a lesbian is the way to go?



This is going to sound like an attack, but damn it, you deserve it for saying something like that. How flipping stupid are you?!? Sexuality is NOT a choice. That is stupid and wrong headed. I was fulling intending on reading all posts before responding, but I'm pissed off now.

Let's get this out of the way first: you husband likes watching porn. So what. I'm sure he watches stuff with you that he finds disgusting. Get over it if you don't want to talk to him. But just so you are aware, your biggest problem isn't that hubby enjoys a good wank. It is a lack of _*TRUST*_!!!! How do I know this? In your original post, you stated that he hides his porn and you found it! How could you have found it if you didn't look? Why did you look? Porn is your excuse. That's why he hides it: he knows you have no trust for your man. Here's a secret almost know one else will fill you in on, because they want to join you in bashing porn. I'll address that point later. Ready for that secret? You don't trust your husband for a very simple reason: *You* are insecure. I'm going to do something I don't usually do, and that's make a couple of assumptions.
1) I'm going to assume based on your picture that you are in your mid-twenties.
2) I'm going to assume your husband is 5 years older than you.
3) I'm going to assume that you are both physically healthy. 
I chose that word for a reason. I'll get back to it. You stated in your post that you guys have sex twice a week. Darlin', as a guy in his 30's, I'm gonna tell you: that's not enough for a guy with an average sex drive (like I have). A man in his 20's wants it at least five times a week, if not more.
Now, because I already know you are insecure (the lack of trust, remember? Stop spying on him, by the way. It's creepy.), I already know there are moments - even whole days - when you feel ugly as sin. What happens when you feel that way? You become convinced that you are unattractive, so you unknowingly push your husband away. I'm speaking from experience again. Fix number one: Get out of your head and listen to your man when he says you are the sexiest woman in the world. He's not lying to you: *YOU are for HIM.*

Porn bashers

I told you I'd come back to this. Here's the thing: there are 3 types of porn bashers.

1) Religious nuts.
2) Jealous people.
3) Misinformed people.

1) The religious nut is one of the worst people in the world. They attempt to force their beliefs on the world, convinced they are saving it. It doesn't matter to them that not everybody cares about their beliefs, or about being "saved", there is no convincing them otherwise, short of violence (or a naked greeting, but that's another post). These folks get under my skin easier than most. I hate their holier-than-thou view points.
2) The jealous people are some I feel sorriest for. They usually don't want to put in the work to look like the porn stars, so they make shit up about them. Or, they don't want to have sex a lot, so they hate the pornstars for doing what they won't. Or, they can't have that kind of sex. Or, any number of reasons. It's sad. If they put in half the engergy into making themselves happier as they do hating porn, they'd be a lot better off.
3) The misinformed are the lost and directionless. They all too easily fall in with the other two. Sometimes, they can be educated and returned to the wild, other times, the humane thing to do would be to put them to sleep. Just kidding about the last part.

Darlin', you seem to be a combination of #2&3. I instructed you on how to be less jealous earlier, so now, I will attempt to educate you. I have quiet a few female pornstars that I count as friends. Without fail, everyone told me the reason she was in the industry was for two reasons: 1) She loved having sex and didn't see anything wrong with getting paid for what she loved, & 2) For empowerment. You notice what's not on there? Exploitation. That's what a porn basher says these women are victims of. I've been on sets while these things are being filmed. You know who says what is going to happen? That's right, the women performers. These women are not on drugs, nor are they kidnapped. The one which seem to be simple objects? That's the role they play. If you want real emotion, look for the various orgasm, and squirting videos. Those are real emotions.

I hope this helps and I'm sorry both for the length of the post and attacking you earlier.


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## Peripheral (Jan 8, 2011)

A man can't beat off in peace these days?


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## Ann Kane (Sep 30, 2011)

Alright, based on the title alone, and that you are female, Im going to think the theme in this thread is going to reflect a "resounding no".


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## Ann Kane (Sep 30, 2011)

lek373 said:


> Maybe I put to much pressure on him emotionally(I am INFJ and he is INTP btw), so the porn is an easy out for him. I think he knows he can remain emotionally unavailable towards me, while still taking care of his sexual urges with the porn. Is this behavior more typical in thinking males since they are less in touch with sharing their feelings? I love my husband and I want us to be open and honest with each other. I think open communication and honesty is healthier for a couples sex life than watching porn together. What do yall think?


Honey, I am reading this book that would have changed my ENTIRE LIFE years ago, and prevented my getting into a horribly abusive relationship. "Why Men Love Bitches". The title is a bit tongue in cheek, and believe it or not, this book reflects more empathy towards the male perspective than any I have ever read. Seriously girl, READ IT. You know how "the Rules" was popular? Well the problem with that book is that it tells you the rules, instead of the principles. "Why Men Love bitches" doesnt hand you a bunch of rules; it gives you the principles and psychology..and its right

You will understand when you read it. 

there's one thing i have learned more than anything, in all the unsatisfying relationships I have been in, with males, and with female "friends". That principle is that WORDS ARE OFTEN NOT THE BEST WAY TO SPEAK. there is more than one way to communicate a direct point. Words are only ONE part of language. What counts is that you get the most productive result, right? Well if you are more of an "F", and he is INTP, you will NEVER be able to discuss your way to a productive result with this guy. You must speak with action. The book will give you a good feel for the attitude behind that, and where you would start. Don't let him see you read it., not that it would change the effect. 

I have had female friends swear up and down on how great of friends we all were, and ditch me. WEll i stopped trying to talk to them about it, and backed off. When i got texts like "hey whats up? how are you?" I would be like "hey i'm fine, busy". Til finally my point was given, and not by saying so. My point being, "I dont need this". I'm not saying you're going to walk out. but there are ways you can back off and show your independence

there's a guy that keeps leaving public messages on his fb for me to see, bcuz i logged off fb. I logged off fb to say, I dont need this. But it wasn't a show. I really DON'T NEED IT.

I believe #2, in giving people space to do what they are going to do. I dont mean put up with all the crap thats thrown at you. I mean reciprocating the lackluster consideration of your feelings. Youir'e not being passive aggressive if you take the initiative to "give him space" without having an attitude about, like nothings wrong. You are merely reciprocating, and in fact, stepping it up a notch, by taking that extra step further into "i dont need you land". You are cool, you are dignified, you are independent. Exude that, make him miss you, and he will start thinking. He WILL notice a difference. If you have discussed the porn issue, without result, DO NOT discuss it anymore. He knows how you feel, why should you need to repeat yourself? That makes you look more weak. REad the book, though seriously.

Talking will NOT solve this for you. Speak with your actions.


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## Steel Magnolia (Apr 10, 2012)

Fizz said:


> People use it as an excuse


Yes, I've noticed that. And frankly, I'm sick of seeing it.


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## Anthoric (May 31, 2012)

Steel Magnolia said:


> Yes, I've noticed that. And frankly, I'm sick of seeing it.


You and me both.
@Robert Foster

Welcome to the forum, I hope you didn't just make an account just to post that ahahhaha.


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## Master Mind (Aug 15, 2011)

Promethea said:


> And in looking for information on this topic, do not take to heart, the things said by some men who take the "all men who say they aren't like me are lying" approach. There are all kinds of attitudes on sex, and not all men are programmed the same way.


It's the *projection bias*. The tendency to unconsciously assume that others share the same or similar thoughts, beliefs, values or position on any given subject. And it's incredibly egocentric for _anyone _to assume that how he or she is is representative of how every single man or woman is regarding that subject.


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## lek373 (May 25, 2012)

And the award for chauvanistic Dbag of the year goes tooo......Robert Foster!! I've actually never gone spying on him to find his porn. He has accidentally left windows open and when I sat down at the computer saw them there. He is a computer programmer and I know zilch about computers, so even if I wanted to "creepily spy" on what kind of porn he's into I would never be able to find it. I stumbled upon some nasty stuff a few times because he forgot to close it out. Im sorry, but when I go to sit down at the computer in the morning to check my email and I open up a window and there is some nasty chick getting rammed in the ass it ruins my day. I can't help but feel a little upset about it.


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## Sapphyreopal5 (Jun 11, 2012)

lek373 said:


> Warning this might be TMI...
> Alright, so my husband watches a good bit of porn. For some reason I find it repulsive! I know there are tons of women who enjoy watching it with their husbands and it can open up your sex life, blah blah. I think that's horse shit! It is completely objectifying. The women in the movies are treated as things and reduced to nothing more than masturbatory aids. The porn stars seem dissociated from their feelings, and unreal. I've stumbled upon his porn more times than I would like. He is usually pretty good at hiding this stuff from me(he's a software engineer and skilled with computers). I watched them out of curiosity and could only handle a few minutes before I had to click away. The only feelings it elicited in me were of anger and disgust. I get this lonley, resentful feeling that I cannot shake off for days. When I confront him about it he usually denies it,which is insulting. There isn't some mysterious porn ghost coming into our house and using his computer.Am I being unreasonable? My husband and I have sex on average once or twice a week and I usually get off every time. I consider myself a highly sexual person, but I only enjoy sex with someone I love and trust. I just cannot understand why he needs to look at this stuff. It reminds me of animals. What is sex without love and emotion behind it? I wish he would come to me to fullfill his sexual appetite instead of looking at that shit! Maybe I put to much pressure on him emotionally(I am INFJ and he is INTP btw), so the porn is an easy out for him. I think he knows he can remain emotionally unavailable towards me, while still taking care of his sexual urges with the porn. Is this behavior more typical in thinking males since they are less in touch with sharing their feelings? I love my husband and I want us to be open and honest with each other. I think open communication and honesty is healthier for a couples sex life than watching porn together. What do yall think?




Hmmm, I can understand your concerns and where you're coming from. I know this may sound bothersome but a lot of men look at porn and a lot of the time, it has nothing to do with whether or not the woman is objectified. As others have said, it may have to do with the variety of porn. I have to ask if you have less sex or if the amount of sex is relatively the same since he started looking at porn (unless he's always watched porn). Another way to think of it is that it could help give him ideas. 

Instead of making a discussion about his watching porn a confrontation or potentially incriminating by asking "Do you watch porn?" or by saying "So I browsed through your browsing history and found links to porn websites", try asking him about how satisfied he is with your sex life. You could also start a conversation, say when you're driving somewhere or eating dinner together and then ask him about how he feels about porn as a topic starter. I figure that if you try to make a meeting out of the conversation by saying "I want to talk to you about something at dinner time" (making it more of a formal thing) is like you becoming in charge of the conversation when it should be a heart to heart discussion. Plus if you make more of a formal meeting than a casual discussion, he'd of course be more likely to be defensive and immediately deny anything you say thus possibly turning the discussion into a heated argument (which I'm sure you don't want!). 

Try to have that discussion without saying "porn objectifies women" or similar statements in trying to guilt him into not watching it (it just won't work and he'll be even more secretive about it, which I don't think anyone wants). Instead, ask him for his point of view and why he watches porn (can go hand-in-hand with how satisfied he is with your sex life if he is not entirely satisfied). Seeing it from his point of view rather than just your own will be a more effective way of communicating with him on this type of thing. I'm not going to suggest you watch porn with him or whatever (if you want to give it a whirl after the discussion, why not?) but at least seeing his point of view and not trying to make him feel guilty about it will increase the likelihood of him being open about it. 

I believe that if you try to see his point of view on it and not incriminate him for his habit (and of course taking a more objective view on it, which may be or may not be difficult for you), he'll appreciate it a lot!


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

lek373 said:


> And the award for chauvanistic Dbag of the year goes tooo......Robert Foster!! I've actually never gone spying on him to find his porn. He has accidentally left windows open and when I sat down at the computer saw them there. He is a computer programmer and I know zilch about computers, so even if I wanted to "creepily spy" on what kind of porn he's into I would never be able to find it. I stumbled upon some nasty stuff a few times because he forgot to close it out. Im sorry, but when I go to sit down at the computer in the morning to check my email and I open up a window and there is some nasty chick getting rammed in the ass it ruins my day. I can't help but feel a little upset about it.


Hehehehehe.. I'm taking this award and handing it over to Brandon Jensen.. whos into girls that are -waaaayyysss- too young to be appropriate material for him. Mhm, its like that.


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## hesperidian (Apr 29, 2012)

*Robert Foster* could write in more gentle way, he was to harsh in his explanation, like have had jealous girlfriend before or have been nagged a lot from some woman


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## Brian1 (May 7, 2011)

While porn is degrading, I think many people come to it due to their own free will. And I'm not talking about the people who view the porn, but the participates. I also think a lot of people outside the porn, miss this point, because it's not what they themselves would do. I was in a philosophy class,during the whole Cheney advocating water boarding, and we were getting a crash course on free will and Kant, and the professor said that Dick Cheney has a free will. And I went into him,listing all the things he's done, and the professor said at the end that each will is determined by the user. some are bad and some are good , but everyone has a free will in the end. Before I was like you're wrong, but I think porn is a great example of the value of the choice. Especially if it's video camera, you can actually see scantily clad women come in and take of their clothes and they're not being forced to do so. In fact, porn sites have the warning are you over or under age restriction buttons, and the person on the other side of the monitor gets to chose. So, while I agree that there's something very fake about porn, there is something very real about it. The choice in being there. And since every person is a participate, every person has made a free will choice.

I don't know the OP, but she says she has a strong sex drive. I would talk to hubby about that and see if you can't get a weening off the porn going on. But I would also acknowledge that even married couple aren't going to be in the mood all the time, and you need to get your animal instincts out of your system somehow. That's what porn is for. But first, both husband and wife need to have a sit down talk without any pointing of the fingers, and communicate, together, because that's what marriage is about. Healthy communication.


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## Robert Foster (Jun 15, 2012)

Thanks for the welcome, Anthoric. I did not just want to post that one. I'm certain I'll find other things to talk about.


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## CrabbyPaws (Mar 5, 2012)

There's nothing wrong with not liking porn. In my relationship it's actually the opposite. My boyfriend hates it, whereas I don't. Perhaps you could talk to your partner, not to tell them you don't like it and don't want him to watch it, but maybe to find out more about how he sees porn, and why he watches it, and what it does for him. Usually, men are more visual than women, so most often men simply use that visual stimulation just to get their imagination flowing, simply because they can't do it as well without the visual stimulation like us women. And like many others have said, when people go to watch it, they aren't usually looking for the emotional attachment though there are many different types suited for different people. I guess it's just something to help you along the way, it's not something that encompasses someone's personality and says what kind of person they are. (Unless it was something illegal I suppose) Maybe that is why you feel a bit distant and off after seeing it, because you are maybe thinking your partner wants to do those things to you etc. So talking to him may help you realise he is not thinking of that, understanding his perception of it and he may also understand that you feel a little insecure about it which could give him a chance to reassure you. There is no reason why you both can't be happy and compromise somewhere down the middle.


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## Robert Foster (Jun 15, 2012)

lek373 said:


> And the award for chauvanistic Dbag of the year goes tooo......Robert Foster!! I've actually never gone spying on him to find his porn. He has accidentally left windows open and when I sat down at the computer saw them there. He is a computer programmer and I know zilch about computers, so even if I wanted to "creepily spy" on what kind of porn he's into I would never be able to find it. I stumbled upon some nasty stuff a few times because he forgot to close it out. Im sorry, but when I go to sit down at the computer in the morning to check my email and I open up a window and there is some nasty chick getting rammed in the ass it ruins my day. I can't help but feel a little upset about it.


Correction: I may be a "Dbag", but I'm hardly a chauvinist. Hell, link me to a post about a guy saying some of the same stuff you did and I'll rip him a new one worse than the one I did you. But, like the old saying goes, "Stick and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me...."

I found it interesting that you only focused on *one* of the points I brought up. Did you not finish reading my post, or did the rest strike a chord? I sincerely hope it is the latter, rather than the former.

I have a question for you, little lady: Why does it ruin your day? What are you making it mean about you?


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## Planisphere (Apr 24, 2012)

In short? No, there's nothing wrong with you. I actually find it quite endearing. Of course, it would be even more spectacular if you liked it previously but broke free of it's hypnotic ways before/after getting into a relationship - that shows an incredible amount of self-control beyond that of a mere animal. Unfortunately, however, most people are just going to be animals that can talk. And it has been my experience that you can't teach these particular animals how to practice self-control over the major distractions in their lives.

Now, feel free to call me an ass for that - anyone can practice self-control in different ways, but an addiction to porn is probably the hardest thing to break free of (alongside drugs). The only kind of person I would care to have as a life-long partner would be someone with amazing willpower: someone that has spent years (and continues to do so) trying to conquer their subconscious and it's impulsive desires. They're ridiculously rare though, so I'm just as prepared to spend the rest of my life alone (yet still no less happy... joining a debate club and/or surrounding myself with intellectuals regardless of willpower is enough to keep me happy one way or the other).

Note: I don't think there is anything morally wrong with pornography. Yes, I also see it as objectifying women, but god knows that many want to be. I wish people would stop objectifying themselves, but since that seems unlikely, I don't give a sh*t anymore. Just one more ridiculous truth we have to accept about people.


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## Robert Foster (Jun 15, 2012)

hesperidian said:


> *Rob* could write in more gentle way, he was to harsh in his explanation, like have had jealous girlfriend before or have been nagged a lot from some woman


Hesperidan, you think I was too harsh? Maybe I was, but I thought I explained it in my post. Allow me to re-iterate my point: I was pissed off by OP's comment about "becoming" a lesbian. You canot become a homosexual. It's an either/or thing (Either you're born that way, or you are not).

No, I was never nagged by a woman about my porn watching, though I did have one get hurt feelings about it. I told her there were two reasons I watched porn: A) It was a substitute for when she wasn't in the mood, or around. B) Rarely, I wouldn't feel like going through an entire production just to get my jollies.

I *really* hate when people try to blame other stuff for their problems rather than being adults about it.


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## Cheveyo (Nov 19, 2010)

hesperidian said:


> *Robert Foster* could write in more gentle way, he was to harsh in his explanation, like have had jealous girlfriend before or have been nagged a lot from some woman




I'm a hermit and even I know that if you coddle people, they'll never learn anything. Being gentle usually makes it easier to be ignored. If you call someone a moron, they'll pay attention. If you're constantly trying to tip toe around the issue in order to not hurt their feelings, you'll never teach the person anything.


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## Reicheru (Sep 24, 2011)

people do not watch porn because they are unsatisfied with their partner, they watch it because it gives you something to masturbate to and sometimes full on, passionate, intimate sex is just too much effort to get off. i wouldn't like to have sex _every_ time i was horny. that's a lot of pressure.

someone has actually figured out the equation for deducing how much a man will masturbate when in a relationship. i can tell you this; it's a lot higher than when he's single.

the reason why the actresses look dissociated in pornography is because they are. so are the men, probably, but the camera won't focus on them as much in straight pornography most of the time. it's very hard to work in adult films as either a man or a woman - it's exhausting, probably a bit icky and requires a lot of work, which is why i prefer amateur porn. it's more natural and the people involved actually convey more real emotion.

although all genders/sexes respond to both, men tend to respond (sexually) slightly more to images and women tend to respond more to emotional connection. that's just how we're built.


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## hesperidian (Apr 29, 2012)

Don't blame her for saying that she thought about becoming lesbian is solution(few friends of mine and me to thought the same at least once in past). 

After some brake up I was so disappointed so I thought that only woman could real understand another woman feelings and needs and that I would be much happier if I could become a lesbian. But that was while I was teen But I realized later that you can not make your self be sincerely attracted to females by your will if it is not in your nature. You explained that well.

Back Lek373, I really thought about how she feels and try to understand her. There was time I felt sick watching porn and one of my best friends found video tapes and play it and first reaction was to run in bathroom and trow up, but that was so long ago when I was 8 or 9 years old. 
I noticed during the years level of tolerance raises and you want more and more interesting things to get excited one that worked 15-20 years maybe that is reason for polarity of gonzo (which from my point of view is trash with bad acting and locations), instead of history xxx remake movies with long plot (which is usually boring)... 
But Lek373 maybe menage to keep innocent and pure view on sex, as for her only representing true love manifestation and gentle showing/ romantic showing of affection without domination or wild imagination. 
And maybe it is not as Robert first assumed low-self esteem or distrust that are making problem maybe problem is on of us who watch porn. We lost that innocent child like look on world and sunken down to satisfy our primal urges.


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## hesperidian (Apr 29, 2012)

Reicheru said:


> people do not watch porn because they are unsatisfied with their partner, they watch it because it gives you something to masturbate to and sometimes full on, passionate, intimate sex is just too much effort to get off. i wouldn't like to have sex _every_ time i was horny. that's a lot of pressure.
> 
> someone has actually figured out the equation for deducing how much a man will masturbate when in a relationship. i can tell you this; it's a lot higher than when he's single.
> 
> ...


this is well explained...


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

lek373 said:


> What is sex without love and emotion behind it?


It's sex and it's still wonderful. There is pleasure in sex and I hope you learn that for the benefit of any long term relationship you're in.

When I was about year 5 in marriage and after we had our child, I went to a licensed psychologist because our marriage and sex life was waning. When my therapist asked me what was my goal, I replied "I want to learn to have sex with my husband all the time." I worked my ass off in individual counseling for three years learning how to do just that. The main thing I learned was _to detach emotion from sex and appreciate sex and my own body for it's pure physical pleasure._ This actually will help your relationship. Expecting feelings of love or emotions to inspire you to have sex all the time after 5 or 10 years of marriage is very unrealistic. Moods and emotions change all the time and too often. If you don't feel like doing it, it's still good to do it, because you will get off. Learning to detach and respect sex on a pure physical level doesn't mean that you have always have to detach emotion or love. It's your choice. But you will want it so much more frequently if you don't need to have those "loving feelings" to motivate you. 

Some days you are just stressed. ROAR. Rip his clothes off when he comes home and tell him to give you a "good fucking". Use his ass to get you off every now and then because you've had a freaking hard day. I promise, if you open your body sexually to him, it will open the door for better communication. I've said this over and over- sex is a microcosm for the condition of the entire relationship. That is why it's so important to work on this one area. You have resentment right now. And it's spinning out of control. You are making correlations all over the place because you're upset. I get that. But really, allow him to fuck you. Not "make love", but FUCK you. Appreciate being his whore every now and then. I mean, he did respect you by giving a ring and you two have a baby together. I doubt at this point he is "just using you."

I don't think there is much I can say when it comes to porn. I watch it, but tend to stop watching it when I'm in a relationship. I like to condition my brain only for my partner. And I've had partners say to me "Wow. I can't believe it. I don't even watch porn since I've been with you." And I think- "Of course not. We're too busy fucking there isn't enough time to watch porn. And on your lunch breaks I go over to your place and sneak a blow job in because I "take care" of my stressed-out, hard working man." If we are separated for any length of time, I slam his inbox with videos of myself and I know I'm hotter than anything he could watch out there, because I'm busy shouting out HIS name in the video and I can point to places on my body and tell him it's "his". Oh and naughty pictures all time. And I love to throw out a sext or two to him while he's in one of his "big important meetings." I like them HARD when they come home to me. :happy:

Here are two books I want you to get before you make any more decisions. Even if you divorce this man, this problem will crop up again in any long term relationship. You got to make your sex life spicy again. You can't control other people, you can only control you. Amazon.com: For Yourself : The Fulfillment of Female Sexuality (9780451202000): Lonnie Barbach: Books <<This book is for you alone to read. When you are done, read and do the activities in this book together: Amazon.com: For Each Other (9780385172974): Lonnie Garfield Barbach: Books

It's really going to open you up for communication outside the bedroom. I already know you two have passive aggression going on. You need to purge that from your relationship. 



lek373 said:


> Or is porn something all women have to learn to accept?


I would just leave the porn issue aside. That is not the real problem.



lek373 said:


> What kind of porn is women friendly?


This is why I only watch girl on girl. It's just a tad more women friendly since it's all about pleasuring a woman. I can imagine I'm either woman and my eyeballs don't get acclimated stupid penis attached to ugly guys having crappy sex. Lol. I hate it when the guy in porn is all "Oh yeah, baby take that." And the women is like "Oh yeah baby. Stick it in my eyeball. That feels so good!" Yeah. It's pretty unrealistic. Hahaha. 

And btw, just a tangent, but did you know I have lesbian girlfriends who have never watched girl on girl porn? I feel like I'm evil or something when I talk to them. They are so innocent compared to me. Haha!



Yardiff Bey said:


> On a side-note, sex is good for the health and fitness. When I was having it twice a day, I was very lean and muscular as a result.


This is a load of bull. Sex does not burn that many calories. And often people when they are fucking a lot turn fat because all they are doing is fucking and eating all the time. It does not replace aerobic exercise or weight lifting. Maybe you should show me a picture of this "lean and muscular" body you got from sex.

But I will agree, sex is the best stress reducer on the planet. It's the best free activity in the world and I really wish sometimes I could just do it all day long. Those are some really good times to be having with your mate. Mmmm



> I know there are tons of women who enjoy watching it with their husbands and it can open up your sex life, blah blah.


No. There really aren't tons of women who enjoy this. There wives are in happy marriages and they have never watched a porn with their husband. I promise you. But by posting this, you are further perpetuating that myth.


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## Yardiff Bey (Jun 5, 2011)

pinkrasputin said:


> This is a load of bull. Sex does not burn that many calories. And often people when they are fucking a lot turn fat because all they are doing is fucking and eating all the time. It does not replace aerobic exercise or weight lifting. Maybe you should show me a picture of this "lean and muscular" body you got from sex.
> 
> But I will agree, sex is the best stress reducer on the planet. It's the best free activity in the world and I really wish sometimes I could just do it all day long. Those are some really good times to be having with your mate. Mmmm


Well, I felt lean and muscular - maybe I just had a good bod at the time from being more active. XD I still contribute a good part of having a six-pack back then to having a lot more sex. 

Def the best stress-reducer out there and def some really good times with your mate! =)


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

Yardiff Bey said:


> Well, I felt lean and muscular - maybe I just had a good bod at the time from being more active. XD I still contribute a good part of having a six-pack back then to having a lot more sex.
> 
> Def the best stress-reducer out there and def some really good times with your mate! =)


I think you were getting laid a lot because you had a good body. Pussy was getting thrown at you. :wink:

You can still show us a pic of that 6-pack if you like. :happy:


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## justanentpgirl (Apr 4, 2010)

@pinkrasputin I love how you put everything out there. .and I think its great for the woman to take ownership of her sexual gratification. .men have an easier go of that usually. .we're trained at a young age only sluts think this way. .that's a huge part of the problem. We are all entitled to enjoy sex. .not just sluts. .and enjoying it doesn't make us sluts either. .some porn is disgusting. .and maybe you just aren't stimukated visually. .have you read any erotica? I bet if you found some stories that really turned you on. .you could share them with your husband. .I think that those books that pinkrasputin recommended would be a good starting point for u. .i personally love some porn. .but i didn't like it much at first either. .the female friendly porn might be more to your liking. .its not my cup of tea. .but they obviously have that category for a reason. .


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## saibot (May 21, 2012)

@_pinkrasputin_

I hate to drag type into this, but speaking from experience I find it hard to believe that someone with inferior Se will manage to adapt their world view on such topics in such a major way without extreme inner turmoil and contemplation. I think it could actually end up hurting the relationship more if she tries to change in what is a very fundamental way for an Ni-dom/Se-inf at what seems to be a rather bad spot in the relationship, especially if she does not have the support of her husband.

Now, I do not know how the relationship is looking besides the porn-problems, but I definitely think this is something that should be kept in mind here. I think the relationship should first reach calmer waters first before she can start a process of significant inner transformation to avoid similar problems in the future. That is the thing, for an INFJ with ideals such as hers adopting a view like yours is a significant undertaking.


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

saibot said:


> @_pinkrasputin_
> 
> I hate to drag type into this, but speaking from experience I find it hard to believe that someone with inferior Se will manage to adapt their world view on such topics in such a major way without extreme inner turmoil and contemplation. I think it could actually end up hurting the relationship more if she tries to change in what is a very fundamental way for an Ni-dom/Se-inf at what seems to be a rather bad spot in the relationship, especially if she does not have the support of her husband.
> 
> Now, I do not know how the relationship is looking besides the porn-problems, but I definitely think this is something that should be kept in mind here. I think the relationship should first reach calmer waters first before she can start a process of significant inner transformation to avoid similar problems in the future. That is the thing, for an INFJ with ideals such as hers adopting a view like yours is a significant undertaking.


I don't have Se in any of my top 4 functions. But then again, I don't use my MBTI type as a crutch either. I do my homework and I work my ass off. I let go of the outcome and stay focused on improving myself. That is the best thing I can do for my partner. I just want health and happiness. 


Oh yeah..and sex, too.

How long have you been married, sir?


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## Pseudowho (Jun 18, 2011)

One thing to think of; is it some form of misdirected jealousy that's making you angry? You might not even notice it, but I recognise the emotion you're displaying. I had it myself (though mildly) a while back. I fixed it in myself and don't experience any of that any more.

Just think about that perhaps. Because I do believe you're in the wrong here. The need to have personal sexual pleasure is a different need to sex with a partner.


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## saibot (May 21, 2012)

pinkrasputin said:


> I don't have Se in any of my top 4 functions. But then again, I don't use my MBTI type as a crutch either. I do my homework and I work my ass off. I let go of the outcome and stay focused on improving myself. That is the best thing I can do for my partner. I just want health and happiness.
> 
> 
> Oh yeah..and sex, too.
> ...


Not at all, but how long have you been an INFJ?

I just felt it was necessary to say that these things seem to be hard for INFJs or, if you do not put much stock into JCF, then people that identify closest with the "INFJ" label. Ni-dom/Se-inf tends to cause very specific world views. And indeed, you do not have Se in your top 4 at all, that is probably why you cannot relate to having an unhealthy relationship with it.

On a side note, it seems to me like you think I tried to antagonize you, which was not my intention at all. I just wanted to give some input to @_lek373_ as a fellow INFJ. Make of that what you will.


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

saibot said:


> Not at all, but how long have you been an INFJ?
> 
> I just felt it was necessary to say that these things seem to be hard for INFJs or, if you do not put much stock into JCF, then people that identify closest with the "INFJ" label. Ni-dom/Se-inf tends to cause very specific world views. And indeed, you do not have Se in your top 4 at all, that is probably why you cannot relate to having an unhealthy relationship with it.
> 
> On a side note, it seems to me like you think I tried to antagonize you, which was not my intention at all. I just wanted to give some input to @_lek373_ as a fellow INFJ. Make of that what you will.


I'm an ENFP! An NF. But she wanted help, not a hug.


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## Sapphyreopal5 (Jun 11, 2012)

After reading more responses to this thread, I am surprised at how many people recommended going to therapy for this firsthand. I think counseling should be a last resort before possible divorce (if counseling were to not work) or separation or whatever. I mean if you do so, that's your prerogative but at the same time why not try resolving the issue with him yourself before going to a counselor? I'm not against counseling at all, but I do have an issue if you solely rely on someone else to help you solve your problems with your SO. Imo, if you go straight to counseling first, that IS making a big deal out of it. That is just me though.

As for other suggestions I've seen, I do love the idea of sending him pictures of yourself or heck even a video of yourself masturbating (especially if you moan/shout his name  ). After all, what man (or even woman) who watches porn could resist fantasizing about their SO? 

For those who suggested things, such as giving him an ultimatum and using actions to show you don't appreciate his inconsideration of your feelings, come on now. That's so immature IMO. In fact, I think purposefully withdrawing from sex will make matters worse if you ask me. As far as the person who said that if you're more of a F and he's INTP the communication thing won't work, I have to disagree. I would think that if you did it just with actions instead of *DIRECT* communication, he would wonder why you're acting this way and may make him turn to porn even more. 

Another suggestion I want to make: Next time you go to use the computer and find a window is up because he forgot to close it, say "honey, when you're done with the computer, please remember to close all windows next time. I don't want to use the computer only to find a video of a woman getting rammed in the @$$. Thank you" and wear a smile on your face as he's walking away. Okay he might just be embarrassed and a little upset if he's sensitive about that topic. I know that if I were him, I would probably feel bashful but think "hey, she didn't get upset with me." To ME, it would also let me feel a little more relaxed. It's also a good way of opening a gateway of being able to openly communicate about it one day, as I wouldn't feel guilty or like an animal for my behavior. 

Do I think the OP wants her husband to turn to porn all the time when he's horny, instead of simply using such as a faster, easier way of getting his business done? (which could turn to cheating if that is no longer satisfactory enough [*DISCLAIMER*: I am *NOT* suggesting that this will happen, but just that it *COULD* happen. Idk your guys' situation or who you are, who he is, etc. as people] No I don't think she does, which is why she decided to ask us fellow PerC members for opinions and advice


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## lek373 (May 25, 2012)

at pinkrasputin- I appreciate your advice but I don't really need a lesson on how to gain pleasure from sex. I LOVE sex. And maybe it is a good thing that you learned in therapy how to separate your emotions from sex so you could enjoy it from a purely physcial aspect. However, like saibot was saying I cannot sacrifice my ideals, nor do I want to. I don't want to learn to separate my emotions. I would feel jaded and probably enjoy sex less. At times, I wish I was able to turn my feelings and moral compass off so I could enjoy things from a purely physical aspect, but that is just not in my nature. Everyone is so different. I don't know if that made any sense?


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## Enfpleasantly (Mar 5, 2012)

Pseudowho said:


> One thing to think of; is it some form of misdirected jealousy that's making you angry? You might not even notice it, but I recognise the emotion you're displaying. I had it myself (though mildly) a while back. I fixed it in myself and don't experience any of that any more.


Yeah, I was going to mention jealousy. Especially after having a child, since our bodies can take a hit from babies. I was self conscious in ways after I had our first baby, but he reassured me that he thought I looked fine. I believed him and even went against my own comfort a few times by letting go and trusting that he still found me attractive. Well, the proof was in the experience  whenever I displayed confidence (even if it was simply feeling confident that I knew he found me attractive) it was the best. 

Basiclally, if your Husband loves you (general), he will love you stretch marks, some extra weight and all. Because at the end of the day, they love a woman with confidence and comfortable in her sexuality. Missionary position with clothes on and the lights off is not very exciting for anyone, and if that's all a man gets, I don't blame him one bit for checking out porn. 

After my 2nd baby, I remember reading an article that said when people asked women to draw their bodies, and then asked their Husbands to draw their Wive's body, the women exaggerated their flaws and men accentuated their Wive's good features, and also drew them thinner than the women drew themselves. So I asked my Husband to be honest and draw my body as he sees it...it was definitely better than I expected  I decided to keep that in mind, and be confident in the fact that I knew he found me attractive. Anyway, it kept both of us very happy, and when the baby weight started to come off, things just got even better because my confidence grew and grew. 

That's another thing you will observe in porn...the women are confident! Even the ones who don't look so hot. Actually, when men cheat, often times the woman isn't even as attractive as his Wife, but the mistress pays attention to him, has an active sex life with him, and is confident in herself. 

And in my opinion, having kids is a piss poor excuse for a subpar sex life. I have 3, and sure, there were times we chose to sleep, or went through periods of less than typical amounts of sex (like when the babies were newborns), but even then, I don't think we ever hit less than twice a week. Basically, my 6 weeks of recovery postpartum was hell for me just as much as him  It's very important to keep up the relationship, even when kids can make life busy. We make time to do other things...like soccer practice for kids, PTO meetings, going to get a new dress for a friend's wedding, helping the friend work on favors for her wedding! It goes on and on. Many Wives end up treating their Husbands like objects when they do this...ironically. The men are often expected to be and do so many things, but he is often neglected and ignored by a Wife who spends her time on her kids 100%. Men, like women, need to receive attention, affection, intimacy, and TIME with their Wives; they want to feel appreciated and respected. 

Sorry for that tangent, it's something I feel strongly about. I'm not saying OP is this kind of Wife, I'm just voicing my opinion on how I personally feel many Wives go wrong. I could say a lot more about it, but I'd say this is enough for now. I do know for sure that many Wives disagree with me...the funny thing is, Husbands usually always agree with me, go figure


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## paper lilies (Dec 6, 2011)

In regard to the "becoming a lesbian" posts that I have seen, I just wanted to gently point out that many lesbians watch porn too (speaking from experience). No one is immune.


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## JackParrish (May 5, 2012)

lek373 said:


> at pinkrasputin- I appreciate your advice but I don't really need a lesson on how to gain pleasure from sex. I LOVE sex. And maybe it is a good thing that you learned in therapy how to separate your emotions from sex so you could enjoy it from a purely physcial aspect. However, like saibot was saying I cannot sacrifice my ideals, nor do I want to. I don't want to learn to separate my emotions. I would feel jaded and probably enjoy sex less. At times, I wish I was able to turn my feelings and moral compass off so I could enjoy things from a purely physical aspect, but that is just not in my nature. Everyone is so different. I don't know if that made any sense?


I keep hearing a tone in your writing: "ideals", "moral compass", etc. Do you have any particular religious beliefs that you are obligated to on this issue? 

If not, what have you anchored these ideals in? I ask because the implication of ideals and morals is that you are unwilling--and in fact, encouraged NOT to--consider changing yourself. Any progress will have to be made by him changing himself, but not you. 

If this is the case, there are only a few options open to you guys based upon your current contempt:
1. You two divorce
2. He changes
3. He doesn't change, but you stay together, and you hold him in constant moral contempt and distrust. 

There is no other ground for compromise in this case, and trying to be wise enough to peer around corners here, I think it seems like the chances that he will really change in the face of accusation and moral judgement is generally pretty low. That means, if we did a little probability distribution here, that numbers 1 and 3 are your most likely outcomes. That means your risks of a negative outcome are high on your current path. 

Maybe there's a way for your two to meet in the middle? Both of you meet on common and respectful ground. Work out a solution acknowledging yourselves as autonomous individuals, with different drives and desires, but with a common purpose. Your probability distribution for risk looks dramatically more favorable with this new direction. Just sayin'.


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

Enfpleasantly said:


> Yeah, I was going to mention jealousy. Especially after having a child, since our bodies can take a hit from babies. I was self conscious in ways after I had our first baby, but he reassured me that he thought I looked fine. I believed him and even went against my own comfort a few times by letting go and trusting that he still found me attractive. Well, the proof was in the experience  whenever I displayed confidence (even if it was simply feeling confident that I knew he found me attractive) it was the best.
> 
> Basiclally, if your Husband loves you (general), he will love you stretch marks, some extra weight and all. Because at the end of the day, they love a woman with confidence and comfortable in her sexuality. Missionary position with clothes on and the lights off is not very exciting for anyone, and if that's all a man gets, I don't blame him one bit for checking out porn.
> 
> ...


I think smart men marry ENFPs. We take responsibility :wink:


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## lek373 (May 25, 2012)

Who said you have to be religeous to have ideals and morals?


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## Enfpleasantly (Mar 5, 2012)

lek373 said:


> Who said you have to be religeous to have ideals and morals?


I agree....and at the same time, who said a person who likes porn doesn't have ideals and morals?


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## JackParrish (May 5, 2012)

lek373 said:


> Who said you have to be religeous to have ideals and morals?



No one. I simply asked if you had any religious beliefs that obligated you to one outcome over another. Do you? 

And then, IF NOT, then what do you anchor your ideals in? Scientific theory? What occurs to you is right and good to do? Your upbringing? How rooted and intentional are these ideals and morals? How immutable and for what cause?


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## Robert Foster (Jun 15, 2012)

Those are good questions, Mr. Parrish. I wonder how she will respond.


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## Anthoric (May 31, 2012)

I'm starting to think Lek373 is one of two things;

A troll

or

A person who has worked themselves into a coner or into a box and refuses to take personal responibility for their actions, and seems to be looking for validation on their veiwpoint and nothing else.


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## Chipps (Jun 1, 2011)

;


Anthoric said:


> I'ms tarting to think Lek373 is one of two things;
> 
> A troll
> 
> ...



I'll go with the latter. She married someone who likes porn while she hates it. Tough shit. At the end of the day, it was her decision to make. People don't change once they get married. But we all know that right? I too feel like everyone is talking in circles here. Its important to know what you need to be fulfilled in a relationship and seek it out before marriage and before children. Sheesh, don't people actually sit down and have a full discussion about what they are and aren't comfortable with, what they expect from one another, and what their future goals are before they get married? Im starting to believe that people think that getting married solves problems when in reality it exacerbates them. Shit like this makes me want to stay as far away from marriage as possible.


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## Robert Foster (Jun 15, 2012)

Chipps said:


> ;
> 
> 
> I'll go with the latter. She married someone who likes porn while she hates it. Tough shit. At the end of the day, it was her decision to make. People don't change once they get married. But we all know that right? I too feel like everyone is talking in circles here. Its important to know what you need to be fulfilled in a relationship and seek it out before marriage and before children. Sheesh, don't people actually sit down and have a full discussion about what they are and aren't comfortable with, what they expect from one another, and what their future goals are before they get married? Im starting to believe that people think that getting married solves problems when in reality it exacerbates them. Shit like this makes me want to stay as far away from marriage as possible.


I agree with you about OP, but don't allow her issues to turn you against marriage. When it's right, it is beautiful.


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## ForsakenMe (Aug 30, 2010)

In the end, OP, it's all just makeup, special effects, cameras, and actors faking orgasms. There are people out there who get turned on by this sort of emotionless, senseless fucking. Some people, like you, aren't turned on by that, and prefer something more softer and more emotional. Guess what? There is nothing wrong with you, or your husband, or anybody who watches porn in general. We all have our own little kinks.

A part of me thinks that you are simply jealous of the women in the porn (Hey, many of us women in love can be like that, don't worry), because they're taking the attention of your husband off of you and onto their goodies.  I say, it's way, way, way better than him actually CHATTING with women secretly and meeting them to cheat on you with. *Then* you seriously have a problem here. But porn? He won't meet them, and he won't touch them either. It just can't happen.

All I can say is to just let him be and let him be a man with his porn. Most men on average watch porn, so it's bound to happen no matter who you meet. Maybe you can give porn a shot? Not all of them are disgusting and boring... You can start taking up some erotica books or even stories written online for your pleasure. Remember, this is YOUR sexuality, nobody else's. We have no right to judge.


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## Cetanu (Jan 20, 2012)

Show him that.

Thank me later.

(by the way, sounds like you have shit communication going on in your relationship)


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## FatSpacePenguins (May 26, 2012)

Therw is nothing wrong with you, it is gross and animalistic. I think it only leaves mates feeling inadequate and never satisfied.


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## Enfpleasantly (Mar 5, 2012)

Woooo....someone hit the ruthless button in this thread all of a sudden :shocked: :tongue:

Anyway, I think it's a jealousy thing too...But why would it bother her now when he's probably done this all along? Well, because like I said before, babies can effect our bodies some, and even a lot for some women; I get that, I truly do. However...Must. Resist. Becoming. Frumpy. Own your Mommy body and your womanhood. I had no hips before babies...now I have an hourglass shape, but it took me some time to get used to it. And don't get sucked up into the bullshit thinking of "I'm a Mother now, I can't do _____, it's not proper" *gag*. 

I never wanted to be like the other guys Wives my Husband hears about all the time...the endless complaints about how ridiculous, catty, prude, a lot of them are. Yes ladies, if you are boring and never give it up (excluding mutual asexual couples) your Husband probably complains about you. These Wives can't have any damn fun because "someone" might see them living a little. I get the biggest smile on my face ever when my Husband tells me about the guys complaining about their lack of sex from their Wives and he says he doesn't share the same problem when they ask him. I don't understand why so many women are like that. Is it all because of being a Mom? Who gives a rats ass if you are head of a church group, or the leader of the PTO? You are more of a "lady" to a man any day when you can be all of those things, PLUS his dirty little secret behind closed doors :kitteh: 

I agree that this thread is about validation.

Yes, I am doing a lot of assuming here :tongue:


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## Yardiff Bey (Jun 5, 2011)

pinkrasputin said:


> I think you were getting laid a lot because you had a good body. Pussy was getting thrown at you. :wink:
> 
> You can still show us a pic of that 6-pack if you like. :happy:


Well, having an awesome job - and plenty of cash - plus living at the beach and going down the beach a lot and having a decent tan - all them things contribute. =)

I can't show you the six-pack any more, it's more of a one-pack atm (though I can plank for 5-6 minutes at a stretch). The fat is slowly disappearing outta the gut area. I could chuck a picture in here that I took about 6 months ago though, with some small muscle development in the shoulders and arms and chest area.


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## Up and Away (Mar 5, 2011)

lek373 said:


> The whole purpose of the post was to seek validation and I don't see anything wrong with that. My husband and I have great sex that we both enjoy, so when I stumble upon the porn I feel a little confused, like why does he need that? I guess it is insecurities and I need to realize it has nothing to do with me. Since our sex life is good, I don't need to worry about it, and realize it has nothing to do with me. I actually talked to him about it tonight after reading all these crazy posts. We kind of laughed about it, and I told him if he is going to watch "that kind of porn" if he could do a better job of closing out his windows.:blushed: I had never even heard of women friendly porn until reading this forum, so maybe that will be our next talk:happy:


That sounds like a good approach. I realize that you've gotten a lot of advice, though i didn't read past the first page, and I realize that advice can sort of feel like people are belittling you, and I certainly don't want to do that, so, please be aware that I realize that when I continue this already very long thread about your sex life.

It already sounds like you've got a great viewpoint  I would only add that I personally have always seen the sexual and spiritual as sort of opposite dichotomies, that can meet in the middle, sure, but that when one lacks we seem to seek the other a bit more. I shouldn't say spiritual, I just mean passion in life, and life is hard. What I'm saying is, the porn has nothing to do with the sex, and you've already realized something like that in the above comment. Just to show you where I think the next lesson might progress to in your own mind, I know for myself that the more love I have in my life, which comes from my job, my identity as a person in relation to life and death, my family, my friends, my girlfriend, etc... the less I am tempted in those things.

Some people feel guilty about it, some feel guilty but justify it, some don't feel guilty.

For the people that experience guilt, not just in displeasing a partner, but deep within the self, then it is simply a spiritual journey, imo


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## Anthoric (May 31, 2012)

lek373 said:


> The whole purpose of the post was to seek validation and I don't see anything wrong with that.


*throws up hands* OK people it's offical,we're beating a dead fucking horse here....



lek373 said:


> Since our sex life is good, I don't need to worry about it, and realize it has nothing to do with me. I actually talked to him about it tonight after reading all these crazy posts. We kind of laughed about it, and I told him if he is going to watch "that kind of porn" if he could do a better job of closing out his windows


And miracoulously the horse moved.

And I still can't beleive I ever even got in on this, and that I ended up bringing a new person to the forums because of it.

@MaWhip

If you had read the entire thread you would've understood my point.


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## Chipps (Jun 1, 2011)

lek373 said:


> And to chipp- I don't think anyone knows every single thing about their partner before they get married. And as a couple your sex life evolves and changes over time.


True, you can't know everything. But Im only 23 and I know what I absolute cannot and will not live with when considering a partner. I've collected a few "deal breakers" along the way and I plan on putting them out there up front. I can't stand wasting my time and I suss out early on whether or not I think a person fits any of my deal breakers. If they do, then its just over. Period. I try to do this before any real feeling start to develop as well. 

I also agree that people do change over time. However, if you let it be known early that you aren't putting up with X then your spouse already knows what it is and already knows how you feel about it so maybe they won't even start engaging in it in the first place. I feel like had you made it known that you didn't like porn at all in the beginning, you could have filtered for men who don't watch it. I'd imagine that limits the pool, but Im sure once you find a person that fits, it sure makes things easier in the long run. 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't know why, but it annoys the crap out of me when people pull the "its only normal to do X" card. Yea, human beings are designed to do all kinds of stuff, but it doesn't mean that we have to do it. I feel like modern culture/technology has given people a bunch of "outs" when it comes to their behavior. No one has to take responsibility for anything anymore. Everything gets classified under "Im just human" now. Men and women have always liked sex and had varying sex drives and what have you but managed to get along just find without porn. There are people in this world who choose to abstain from sex their whole lives and that certainly isn't normal but they do it. We can choose to do whatever the hell we want. Our natural urges do not control us. At least they should not control us. Im not saying he shouldn't like porn, or that porn is bad, but he can choose to stop watching it. He can find other ways to get off. Shit, get creative. Watching porn is just easier. Nothing more and nothing less.


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## TaoPaiPai (Jul 3, 2011)

> We can choose to do whatever the hell we want. Our natural urges do not control us. At least they should not control us. Im not saying he shouldn't like porn, or that porn is bad, but he can choose to stop watching it. He can find other ways to get off. Shit, get creative. Watching porn is just easier. Nothing more and nothing less.


Here is the deal: Your natural urges do not control you IF you satisfy them regularly. Masturbating to porn is the easiest way to satisfy your sexual needs. You can choose to not masturbate. Yes, but that'd make life A LOT harder for most men. Men don't watch porn because they like to watch it. Nobody watches porn just to enjoy the scenery. Watching it while masturbating saves a lot of energy and time.


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## Erbse (Oct 15, 2010)

lek373 said:


> I am not willing to compromise my values. I refuse to be dishonest, and tell him I don't mind him doing it when I find it repulsive.


You aren't compromising your values, for you stay clear of porn which you find repulsive.

You are however trying to compromise his values, for he does not find porn repulsive.

:mellow:

Fortunately you seem to have gotten around to understand that, though.

Hopefully.


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## Brian1 (May 7, 2011)

There's nothing wrong with seeking validation but you kind of posed it as it's the end of the world, which spurred on the usual pick sides on porn,a polarizing topic, then you tested the waters sone more by suggesting people who are addicted to video slot machines, video card games, are just as bad as people who look at porn,not looking at child porn,regular adult consensual Adult porn, as if either a person were the most despicable person on the face of the earth. 


You know, with a thread on porn, in a forum called sex and relationships, I guess it would be cliche of me to say, after all that, and she's just seeking validation on her otherwise stable marriage, I feel so used. 



lek373 said:


> The whole purpose of the post was to seek validation and I don't see anything wrong with that. My husband and I have great sex that we both enjoy, so when I stumble upon the porn I feel a little confused, like why does he need that? I guess it is insecurities and I need to realize it has nothing to do with me. Since our sex life is good, I don't need to worry about it, and realize it has nothing to do with me. I actually talked to him about it tonight after reading all these crazy posts. We kind of laughed about it, and I told him if he is going to watch "that kind of porn" if he could do a better job of closing out his windows.:blushed: I had never even heard of women friendly porn until reading this forum, so maybe that will be our next talk:happy:


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## Up and Away (Mar 5, 2011)

Chipps said:


> True, you can't know everything. But Im only 23 and I know what I absolute cannot and will not live with when considering a partner. I've collected a few "deal breakers" along the way and I plan on putting them out there up front. I can't stand wasting my time and I suss out early on whether or not I think a person fits any of my deal breakers. If they do, then its just over. Period. I try to do this before any real feeling start to develop as well.
> 
> I also agree that people do change over time. However, if you let it be known early that you aren't putting up with X then your spouse already knows what it is and already knows how you feel about it so maybe they won't even start engaging in it in the first place. I feel like had you made it known that you didn't like porn at all in the beginning, you could have filtered for men who don't watch it. I'd imagine that limits the pool, but Im sure once you find a person that fits, it sure makes things easier in the long run.
> 
> ...


I'm just curious, but do you refuse to be friends with people who watch porn too?

If so, what is the point of being ideal (as opposed to the norm which you had said greatly annoys you), if you aren't willing to befriend people.

And if you developed romantic feelings for a friend, would you not reconsider?

A lot of people on here are simply expressing their hate, which is just as bad as porn.

People aren't objects, and shouldn't be treated as such. They are God's creation.


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## Up and Away (Mar 5, 2011)

Erbse said:


> You aren't compromising your values, for you stay clear of porn which you find repulsive.
> 
> You are however trying to compromise his values, for he does not find porn repulsive.
> 
> ...


I agree in part, but, there is nothing wrong with saying some behaviors are destructive.

Porn is destructive in many ways for people that value intimacy and monogamy.

That does not mean that porn can't prevent something worse.

However, just because we don't like what someone does, doesn't mean we can't love them.

We don't have to accept someones "bad values."

It is a lot better to be patient with those values, and give love, since love is what nurtures people to their own self actualization more than any other technique.

And when we can't do that, it is a question of whether to allow freedom which can either cause destruction or creativity, or to take away freedom with structure, which can either create discipline or take away creativity.

It depends on the situation, however, saying we should accept someones values is off the mark in my opinion.
*
We can accept the person, but not their values, otherwise we wouldn't be accepting ourselves.*


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## Up and Away (Mar 5, 2011)

Manhattan said:


> If you will never understand it, it will be because your revulsion prevents you from seeing it as anything more than "gaining pleasure from objectifying another human being". Do you think your husband is masturbating to porn and saying in his head "YEAH, DEHUMANIZE HER!"? He's likely enjoying the image of the female body or some sexual thought that is conveyed by the porn.
> 
> There is definitely a problem when someone cannot combine sex and love. Surely sex should be enhanced by love, and perhaps the other way around. However many, (more likely men) can both separate love and sex or combine them together. Loving you does not mean your husband cannot have other sexual desires. It is atypical for specifically a man to be this way. You may link love and sex, but that does not mean he does or that the enjoyment of human sexuality without the connection of love is disgusting. It is no more disgusting that enjoying food or drink for pure enjoyment. There is an urge present, so the individual seeks to satisfy it.
> 
> ...


I saw you said something about it being better when we combine sex and love. I couldn't agree more.

So maybe many of us should stop focusing on telling people what to do sexually, and start focusing a bit also on how to "love more", both ourselves, others including others in this thread, and the good things we do in life.


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## Up and Away (Mar 5, 2011)

Brian1 said:


> There's nothing wrong with seeking validation but you kind of posed it as it's the end of the world, which spurred on the usual pick sides on porn,a polarizing topic, then you tested the waters sone more by suggesting people who are addicted to video slot machines, video card games, are just as bad as people who look at porn,not looking at child porn,regular adult consensual Adult porn, as if either a person were the most despicable person on the face of the earth.
> 
> 
> You know, with a thread on porn, in a forum called sex and relationships, I guess it would be cliche of me to say, after all that, and she's just seeking validation on her otherwise stable marriage, I feel so used.


It is hard for a person to ask for advice where people come in with their own personal issues, try to tell the person what to do, sometimes insult the person, and while all that seem normal.

When it is often 10 vs 1, with 10 people telling the OP what to do, it can feel like being ganged up on.

For this perspective, one simply needs empathy towards what it feels like to be ganged up on, and if they want to prevent that feeling, they can back off a bit in their criticism, or they can at least PM the person in private, if they actually care that much and are not just venting their own need to express themselves..

This really gets out of hand sometimes when the members in the public thread start discussing the OP out in the open.


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## Chipps (Jun 1, 2011)

Souled In said:


> I'm just curious, but do you refuse to be friends with people who watch porn too?
> 
> If so, what is the point of being ideal (as opposed to the norm which you had said greatly annoys you), if you aren't willing to befriend people.
> 
> ...


I watch porn. Its not a deal breaker for me. I dont recall stating that it was. 

I can be friends with people who fit my deal breakers. Odds of me honestly developing feelings for someone who fit a deal breaker os low considering that I get turned off by it. I tend to get closer to people who have similar views as me but who doesnt? Lastly whatever criteria I (or anyone else for that matter) choose to use to determine who is relationship (platonic or romantic) worthy and who is not is my business and my right. I could say I refuse to date left handed people and it would be my perogative. I dont have to be accepting of shit if I dont want to and neither does anyone else. Its not hateful. Its just preference. Everyone has preference.


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## Anthoric (May 31, 2012)

Chipps said:


> True, you can't know everything. But Im only 23 and I know what I absolute cannot and will not live with when considering a partner. I've collected a few "deal breakers" along the way and I plan on putting them out there up front. I can't stand wasting my time and I suss out early on whether or not I think a person fits any of my deal breakers. If they do, then its just over. Period. I try to do this before any real feeling start to develop as well.
> 
> I also agree that people do change over time. However, if you let it be known early that you aren't putting up with X then your spouse already knows what it is and already knows how you feel about it so maybe they won't even start engaging in it in the first place. I feel like had you made it known that you didn't like porn at all in the beginning, you could have filtered for men who don't watch it. I'd imagine that limits the pool, but Im sure once you find a person that fits, it sure makes things easier in the long run.
> 
> ...



I think you just made my list of awesome people....
@Souled In

I think you've mistaken Chipps for Steel Magnolia, Steel said it was a dealbreaker for her if someone watched porn.


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## Up and Away (Mar 5, 2011)

Anthoric said:


> I think you just made my list of awesome people....
> @_Souled In_
> 
> I think you've mistaken Chipps for Steel Magnolia, Steel said it was a dealbreaker for her if someone watched porn.


If so then my comment is just a bit out of context, but still applies:

My question is if someone has a deal breaker up front with people they would date, do they still have those deal breakers with potential friends?

If not, then what is less special about friends, and what about if we emotionally develop feelings for friends, is it more important to follow that deal breaker, when our instinct is that we like someone?

I wish you had only put 3 periods after the phrase awesome people ...


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## Anthoric (May 31, 2012)

Souled In said:


> If so then my comment is just a bit out of context, but still applies:
> 
> My question is if someone has a deal breaker up front with people they would date, do they still have those deal breakers with potential friends?
> 
> ...



For me personally I can be friends with relationship dealbreakers, though it's not often. It's kind of complicated on how it works.

Also I did that cause I knew it would bother you


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## Boolean11 (Jun 11, 2012)

Souled In said:


> I saw you said something about it being better when we combine sex and love. I couldn't agree more.
> 
> So maybe many of us should stop focusing on telling people what to do sexually, and start focusing a bit also on how to "love more", both ourselves, others including others in this thread, and the good things we do in life.


You seem to be an idealist really. Why haven't you grown to try to see the world as it is and people as they are? 

Sexuality and morality is another diverse topic where viewing it with absolute morality is really inappropriate. Its just like the god topic, would you get anywhere by looking at it using your personal judgement? Would you ever learn to appreciate how people are just different? 

(people are not "bad" and morality is merely subjective)


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## ElectricHead (Jun 3, 2011)

It depends on the porn. Most of it is boring, and I can totally understand your viewpoint on it. Some porn is disturbing to me, such as when the women or even the men are kind of abused or humiliated. Sometimes you can find that sensual, erotic, love-making porn, which I like. It really isn't horseshit. Regardless of my personal preferences in porn "genres", I choose not to judge someone for whatever porn they enjoy as long as it's consensual, adult, human sex. Anything outside of that and I'd probably share a similar viewpoint as you have for porn in general.


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## Boolean11 (Jun 11, 2012)

Chipps said:


> True, you can't know everything. But Im only 23 and I know what I absolute cannot and will not live with when considering a partner. I've collected a few "deal breakers" along the way and I plan on putting them out there up front. I can't stand wasting my time and I suss out early on whether or not I think a person fits any of my deal breakers. If they do, then its just over. Period. I try to do this before any real feeling start to develop as well.
> 
> I also agree that people do change over time. However, if you let it be known early that you aren't putting up with X then your spouse already knows what it is and already knows how you feel about it so maybe they won't even start engaging in it in the first place. I feel like had you made it known that you didn't like porn at all in the beginning, you could have filtered for men who don't watch it. I'd imagine that limits the pool, but Im sure once you find a person that fits, it sure makes things easier in the long run.
> 
> ...


What makes people fail to analyse the elements that their relationship may be anchored on before they make any commitment? Isn't it important to gain personal insight into the exact foundation of the relationship so you can know what exactly is expected not to change to keep each other happy? Knowing somebody's flaws may not be such a bad think especially if you equally honest about yours. 

Why don't people learn to understand people short comings, instead of merely exerting their personal judgement upon them?


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## Up and Away (Mar 5, 2011)

Boolean11 said:


> You seem to be an idealist really. Why haven't you grown to try to see the world as it is and people as they are?
> 
> Sexuality and morality is another diverse topic where viewing it with absolute morality is really inappropriate. Its just like the god topic, would you get anywhere by looking at it using your personal judgement? Would you ever learn to appreciate how people are just different?
> 
> (people are not "bad" and morality is merely subjective)


Your value that we should appreciate everyone's values equally (relativism or pragmatism), is still your own value which you are putting as absolutely better than what I am saying.

The whole point of me sharing my opinion is because I have my subjective truth about what is bad.

However, I still have my subjective truth about caring for others.

Part of caring about others is being honest about my values.

The fact that values are subjective, doesn't mean we should not respect our own values.

Your argument is a fancy pragmatic way of saying you disagree with my values, but I respect that it could also be an attempt to educate, despite the comment about asking me why haven't I grown up yet 

Edit: But I do agree that understanding is necessary. So what makes you think I am not advocating understanding people, which is the only way to accomplish my goal of giving love to people and caring for others?

Because I think a behavior someone does for themselves, is bad for them, you think I don't care for them?

I am sorry I didn't make it clear that I still care about people that do things that I think are not good for themselves.

But of course you'd have to understand ME a bit better to make that judgement, perhaps..


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## Boolean11 (Jun 11, 2012)

Souled In said:


> Your value that we should appreciate everyone's values equally (relativism or pragmatism), is still your own value which you are putting as absolutely better than what I am saying.
> 
> The whole point of me sharing my opinion is because I have my subjective truth about what is bad.
> 
> ...


Understanding doesn't mean agreeing. Sorry for the implied personal attack not intended, but I'm just trying to understand why you try to understand people based on based on what you think is good is good for "themselves". 



> I am sorry I didn't make it clear that I still care about people that do things that I think are not good for themselves.


I have a vested personal interest in trying to understand the reason behind the line above since its a personally a big issue with someone I know in my life. And to put it short, it personally irritates me to the point where it has lead me to say some cruel words to the person involved (that's when I was pushed on the edge and lost my exclusively calm demeanour, which rarely ever happens). In my perspective what would make people think that their powers of reasoning can be appropriate to somebody else's complex life in any manner? (this just puzzle me since I view myself as the best thinker for my life and nobody else even comes second in trying to fulfil that task). 

But the nail in the coffin of my excellent demeanour (I've got self control in other words) comes when somebody refuses to thoroughly understand my reasoning (fair enough that a difficult task) but then happens to make no effort to even try, I MEAN TRY, instead choosing to use what they *think* is right. That just infuriates me. In my perspective, that is just lazy thinking, it merely going by feelings instead of seeking information in objective reality....I'm just finding it difficult to rationalise that.

Don't take this as a personal attack, if that is your way of life, I just need to understand why people are like that


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## Up and Away (Mar 5, 2011)

Boolean11 said:


> Understanding doesn't mean agreeing. Sorry for the implied personal attack not intended, but I'm just trying to understand why you try to understand people based on based on what you think is good is good for "themselves".
> 
> I have a vested personal interest in trying to understand the reason behind the line above since its a personally a big issue with someone I know in my life. And to put it short, it personally irritates me to the point where it has lead me to say some cruel words to the person involved (that's when I was pushed on the edge and lost my exclusively calm demeanour, which rarely ever happens). In my perspective what would make people think that their powers of reasoning can be appropriate to somebody else's complex life in any manner? (this just puzzle me since I view myself as the best thinker for my life and nobody else even comes second in trying to fulfil that task).
> 
> ...


I'm totally with you on this, for sure.

One issue I see which will prevent me sharing my viewpoint clearly, I think, is that, well I seem to be confused about why you think people thinking they are right is the reason why people are rude to you or infuriate you, or not you, but to other people in general.

I think i can think I am right about something, but still be humble knowing there is a lot I dont know, and also still be loving because that is what I think is the best thing to do at least 80% of the time. So in short, I think if people can't discuss disagreement without exchanging appreciation for the person, then 80% of the time it would be better if they didn't discuss the disagreement at all.

Think of parenting, which is basically a person thinking they are right to the degree of having enough authority and power to get their way in some regards. Studies show that criticism and punishment don't really do the child much good. Positive reinforcement is a much better tool, and that is some of the foundation where I am basing my love works 80% of the time theory.

The rest of the time I realize is a guessing game of whether we take away freedom or allow freedom, however, I don't consider freedom as the ultimate goal. One example is, say you are my best friend, and I like you a lot, would take a bullet for you, to the degree that I think you are destroying yourself, is the degree that I would use structure and peer pressure to get you into a different habit and way of indulging your passion, if and only if nurturing and love didn't work, or if I wasn't capable of expressing that appreciation.

So, I can love a person while still thinking that they are immature in some fashions.

I don't want to look at people's activities as bad, or evil though. I really feel like that is God's job, or not mine, or counterproductive. I look at peolpe's activities as immature, or mature. And I think the most mature is what ever allows us to achieve the longest term goals. And that includes the possibility of an afterlife, which might or might not be based on our energy level, perhaps measured in lucidity, love, serenity, and which is disciplined and non destructive.

As an aside, to myself and to you I suppose, I just had the thought that, why would a god, if exists, want someone destructive and selfish in heaven? I realize religion stories can be freaky, but it does outline my point that I think it is okay for me to think some values are better than other, but some of the values I think are better than others include giving people love, even when disagreeing, and not judging people as bad or evil, but rather as immature.

Basically, if I see someone with an illogical belief, or an undisciplined or directed passion, then I will wonder which lesson in life they are currently on, and to the degree that I am in a good mental state (including love I think), then is the degree I will try to help this person in the next lesson.

But I mean, the reason I say love works 80% of the time is because that has to do with trust and bonding, which without trust, no one wants anyone's damn advice anyway, we often just put things in the denial category until we hit the bottom of the barrel.

So letting people go their own way without trying to help them is like saying we are okay with them hitting the bottom of the barrel to learn, which might result in something really bad, and besides, it is good to connect with people, and helping them in the next lesson is just part of that process.

I expect to learn part of my next lesson in the process, and if they do the same thing for me, then so I am humbled as well. Sometimes they don't do it as well, but that doesn't mean they don't have the right to.

To the degree that I am losing control, either in myself internally, or externally with the power I have in place that I think is good (if external power is ever even good), is the degree that I have problems doing this with people.

But yeah, I hear you as far as people not using the scientific method, or not communicating well, and basically being immature.

That simply means you are more mature in that aspect, which means you are the leader.

I used to get perturbed by this too, because I felt alone, and was undisciplined and wished someone would help me, wished society was full of better people, which I was more loved and nurtured by others.

But when I accepted that it wasn't normally going to happen, and that people were largely immature at least in the self actualized sense, then I realized that they could be manipulated for good just as easy as they could be manipulated for bad.

If people can fall victim to addiction to drugs, so can people fall victim to addiction to helping others. I don't want to trick people, though, I want to be as honest and transparent as possible, i think..

And when I give love to people, they give it back. So what if they didn't give it to me first.

So what if I had to be a leader of society in my 20's and make the first move with people, and be patient, almost like I am parenting.

It just comes down to practice I guess, and to the degree that it gets out of my control due to not knowing the next lesson yet or haven't having practiced enough due to whatever, is to the degree that I have stress.

And I pretty much always have stress constantly. It is just moments like these when I can communicate with people about self actualization, and learn from it, that I feel much better..


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## Brian1 (May 7, 2011)

I don't think I have all the answers when it comes to relationships. I was really insulted by this statement


lek373 said:


> Do you think there is a correlation with online video gaming and overuse of porn?


 I went to Las Vegas and won at least 8 rounds of Blackjack and I taught myself how to play through a Windows 95 video game blackjack. I don't mean to hurt or insult the OP, but the only thing I can think of when it comes to porn and video games are those strip poker strip blackjack,which would be a porn interactive game. But the OP just said porn and the reader is only going by what the OP gives them. If OP had said, "Do you think there is a correlation with online erotic video gaming and overuse of porn?", that would spark an interesting discussion, rather than a reaction, yes I suppose there could be a correlation between erotic online games and overuse of porn because the EOG could be used as a tease, to view more porn. In fact there are free online erotic games and pay to play online erotic games. But the way the OP wrote it


lek373 said:


> Do you think there is a correlation with online video gaming and overuse of porn?


, this is open to facebook texas hold em, and a little of the subject. What exactly is their objective then? And while I do think @Robert Foster came on a bit strong, I do think the top part of his response is noteworthy when he talks about the needing to trust your partner more


Robert Foster said:


> This is going to sound like an attack, but damn it, you deserve it for saying something like that. How flipping stupid are you?!? Sexuality is NOT a choice. That is stupid and wrong headed. I was fulling intending on reading all posts before responding, but I'm pissed off now.
> 
> Let's get this out of the way first: you husband likes watching porn. So what. I'm sure he watches stuff with you that he finds disgusting. Get over it if you don't want to talk to him. But just so you are aware, your biggest problem isn't that hubby enjoys a good wank. It is a lack of _*TRUST*_!!!! How do I know this? In your original post, you stated that he hides his porn and you found it! How could you have found it if you didn't look? Why did you look? Porn is your excuse. That's why he hides it: he knows you have no trust for your man. Here's a secret almost know one else will fill you in on, because they want to join you in bashing porn. I'll address that point later. Ready for that secret? You don't trust your husband for a very simple reason: *You* are insecure. I'm going to do something I don't usually do, and that's make a couple of assumptions.
> 1) I'm going to assume based on your picture that you are in your mid-twenties.
> ...





Souled In said:


> It is hard for a person to ask for advice where people come in with their own personal issues, try to tell the person what to do, sometimes insult the person, and while all that seem normal.
> 
> When it is often 10 vs 1, with 10 people telling the OP what to do, it can feel like being ganged up on.
> 
> ...


I think the reason why I overreacted a bit is because I once read that a person used to go to their local drug store, they knew what they were there to do. To get porn, but when you say "I'd like a copy of Hustler" especially if there are four or five people behind you, there's this shame to it. I forget who is in it, but there's this great SNL skit of David Spade and possibly Jeff Goldblum and Goldblum is buying porn from the clerk Spade, and a kid notices hey that's Jeff GoldBlum, he's buying porn, and David Spade says don't worry about them." And the skit can either be taken as the shame of buying porn or the loss of anonymity once you become famous. I don't feel shameful when I play online video gaming. I think that's why there's so much hostility to porn. And on that note I mentioned poker throughout my posts. Poker has always had this reputation as a boys game. It's a very new thing for women poker players to be in the spotlight, and historically it was a game of thugs and hoodlems, Wild West. Dead Man's Hand is an pocket A8 which is the hand Wild Bill Hickock had when he died. So yes while I should have used more sense especially new member and all,I'm not as good with empathy. there's something as polarizing as porn and that's online video gaming, especially Farmville that's a new addiction that might break up families. This is not to say people who do find porn on this board to be disgusting, haven't influenced my thoughts on this subject. In the spirit of flexibility,I thought a lot about what you said here and I can see what you mean.


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## Up and Away (Mar 5, 2011)

Brian1 said:


> I don't think I have all the answers when it comes to relationships. I was really insulted by this statement I went to Las Vegas and won at least 8 rounds of Blackjack and I taught myself how to play through a Windows 95 video game blackjack. I don't mean to hurt or insult the OP, but the only thing I can think of when it comes to porn and video games are those strip poker strip blackjack,which would be a porn interactive game. But the OP just said porn and the reader is only going by what the OP gives them. If OP had said, "Do you think there is a correlation with online erotic video gaming and overuse of porn?", that would spark an interesting discussion, rather than a reaction, yes I suppose there could be a correlation between erotic online games and overuse of porn because the EOG could be used as a tease, to view more porn. In fact there are free online erotic games and pay to play online erotic games. But the way the OP wrote it , this is open to facebook texas hold em, and a little of the subject. What exactly is their objective then? And while I do think @_Robert Foster_ came on a bit strong, I do think the top part of his response is noteworthy when he talks about the needing to trust your partner more
> 
> 
> 
> I think the reason why I overreacted a bit is because I once read that a person used to go to their local drug store, they knew what they were there to do. To get porn, but when you say "I'd like a copy of Hustler" especially if there are four or five people behind you, there's this shame to it. I forget who is in it, but there's this great SNL skit of David Spade and possibly Jeff Goldblum and Goldblum is buying porn from the clerk Spade, and a kid notices hey that's Jeff GoldBlum, he's buying porn, and David Spade says don't worry about them." And the skit can either be taken as the shame of buying porn or the loss of anonymity once you become famous. I don't feel shameful when I play online video gaming. I think that's why there's so much hostility to porn. And on that note I mentioned poker throughout my posts. Poker has always had this reputation as a boys game. It's a very new thing for women poker players to be in the spotlight, and historically it was a game of thugs and hoodlems, Wild West. Dead Man's Hand is an pocket A8 which is the hand Wild Bill Hickock had when he died. So yes while I should have used more sense especially new member and all,I'm not as good with empathy. there's something as polarizing as porn and that's online video gaming, especially Farmville that's a new addiction that might break up families. This is not to say people who do find porn on this board to be disgusting, haven't influenced my thoughts on this subject. In the spirit of flexibility,I thought a lot about what you said here and I can see what you mean.


You're right, I'm sorry bud for being critical, I was overwhelmed by the abundance of criticism in the thread. I should have been more understanding up front. You can tell though when people don't put much thought into what they are posting, like if they add a one liner comment right after their other one that seems a fast change in topic that almost derails the thread, etc... So I wouldn't take it to heart man, just because people don't like us as humans for whatever reason, doesn't mean we aren't more mature and therefore the leaders in the respects we are more mature. As far as being a leader, I am convinced that love works 80% of the time and power is only necessary for the other 20%, and that power can either support freedom or structure to accomplish the goal. Porn is a structured way, if you might indulge my opinion, to keep ourselves from doing worse things. It also is a structured way to keep ourselves from the ideal intimacy and love. I think when looking at anything, it always comes down to conflict resolution, which since love works 80% of the time, most of us arguing is just us being assholes, and the fact taht we justify it with saying someones behavior is bad, without even truly knowing their intention and reason for doing so (like past abuse or whatever, and their values), is just us being even more of assholes, lol... maybe *shrug


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## Chipps (Jun 1, 2011)

Boolean11 said:


> What makes people fail to analyse the elements that their relationship may be anchored on before they make any commitment? Isn't it important to gain personal insight into the exact foundation of the relationship so you can know what exactly is expected not to change to keep each other happy? Knowing somebody's flaws may not be such a bad think especially if you equally honest about yours.
> 
> Why don't people learn to understand people short comings, instead of merely exerting their personal judgement upon them?


I agree. Short comings happen too. I ask myself "Does this bother me? Can I deal with it?" If it doesn't bother me and I can live with it then its fine. I might even find it charming or endearing. Im not expecting perfection. I don't think anyone is. However, we all have things that are more than shortcomings and are just unattractive for various reasons. Its important to determine what falls into each category before you get married and have a child.


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## JackParrish (May 5, 2012)

Chipps said:


> I agree. Short comings happen too. I ask myself "Does this bother me? Can I deal with it?" If it doesn't bother me and I can live with it then its fine. I might even find it charming or endearing. Im not expecting perfection. I don't think anyone is. However, we all have things that are more than shortcomings and are just unattractive for various reasons. Its important to determine what falls into each category before you get married and have a child.


But here you have teased out the wisdom at play in this unholy mess--you state it and engage it as YOUR shortcoming, not your partner's. It's okay to have a bias against porn. I could make a dozen powerful arguments right now that it should be abolished, right now, for the good of mankind. And I can also powerfully argue that it is can be a potent contributor to healthy sexual energy in our society. And all the arguments would have merit in context. But that context will depend upon how it interacts with the weaknesses of others.

I found this thread to be deceitful from the first page, but it was obvious. Even so, I took the author at her word and began where I would with any honest intellectual traveler--I attempted to inquire about her bias, the ideas she considers sacred (and therefore out of bounds for change), and the likely outcomes predicted by those initial factors (more than 80% of the fight, in my experience). Afterall, a woman came and asked a fairly motley collection of pretty smart people "is there something wrong with ME". But really she was saying "please join me and confirm that something is dreadfully wrong with my husband." 

In the end, Chipps, you showed the bit of wisdom that the thread title pretended to convey (so much promise!) but all along was the right place to begin: you begin with yourself before you diagnose those around you. You don't do this because of some great sense of virtue--although I think that's an ancillary benefit--but because you are more likely to uncover the real cause of the problem you are trying to solve, or if you cannot, then at least you know that you did your most honest work to realize there was no solution.


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## Chipps (Jun 1, 2011)

JackParrish said:


> I found this thread to be deceitful from the first page, but it was obvious. Even so, I took the author at her word and began where I would with any honest intellectual traveler--I attempted to inquire about her bias, the ideas she considers sacred (and therefore out of bounds for change), and the likely outcomes predicted by those initial factors (more than 80% of the fight, in my experience). Afterall, a woman came and asked a fairly motley collection of pretty smart people "is there something wrong with ME". But really she was saying "please join me and confirm that something is dreadfully wrong with my husband."


Thanks for being the person to point this out.


I wanted to say it too except I didn't want to be _that_ person this time because I call bullshit enough on this site.:laughing:


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## Razare (Apr 21, 2009)

I feel sorry for the lady who made the original post now.

It sucks when something you're looking for a little advice on becomes 17 pages long. x.x


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## Master Mind (Aug 15, 2011)

Souled In said:


> My question is if someone has a deal breaker up front with people they would date, do they still have those deal breakers with potential friends?


If you aren't dating your friends, I fail to see why relationship dealbreakers would be relevant with people you aren't in a relationship with.


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## Marac (Mar 26, 2012)

I've never been a huge fan of normal porn where there is a huge muscular dude ramming this girl who's faking an orgasm in all kinds of humiliating positions.

However, in recent years, a new genre has emerged; real couples making slow/passionate luv where the girl actually is enjoying it a lot. Now, that I find pretty hot.


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## JackParrish (May 5, 2012)

Razare said:


> I feel sorry for the lady who made the original post now.
> 
> It sucks when something you're looking for a little advice on becomes 17 pages long. x.x


Are you kidding me? We all have lenses by which we view the world. Not just blocks, but LENSES--by which everything we see through them is distorted in one way or another. By coming here and asking a question (even if it could have been more genuine) she got people to donate their thoughts. She invited and provoked a new way of seeing her world and all the assumptions she holds about it. 

That doesn't suck. In fact, it's incredibly valuable for anyone with an even moderately open mind. This thread gives her the rare opportunity to distance herself from her situation and see it from many new angles. New lenses, and ones that may make her life more happy, more durable, or more adventurous. 

What would suck is for the OP, or any other participant, to have read through 17 pages and to not have a single new thought or idea. To walk away with their lenses unexamined. That would suck.


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## Up and Away (Mar 5, 2011)

Master Mind said:


> If you aren't dating your friends, I fail to see why relationship dealbreakers would be relevant with people you aren't in a relationship with.


Are you saying people never date people they were previously friends with?


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## perfectcircle (Jan 5, 2011)

There is nothing wrong with you. I think that's a pretty common feeling. In the end, those people are actors doing a pretty shoddy job of impersonating what is "sexy".

But it's also pretty normal to enjoy porn. If your motivation is to make your husband share your views or make him stop, I think you're facing a hard time ahead of you, and I also don't know if that's fair. Since you so obviously dissaprove, he might feel a little shamed and that's why he "hides" it-- his lying is isnulting since it's obvious to both of you, but maybe you can get to a place of mututal acceptance where he doesn't need to lie to you anymore. I think lying is more of a problem in a relationship.

But if he is ADDICTED to porn, that's a real problem he could use help with. Merely enjoying viewing porn- well, hell, I sometimes do that. It's fine if you don't, and it may be hard to wrap your head around the fact that he does, but in the end, you can't control your husband. If my boyfriend told me, "stop watching porn when you get the urge and do it with me instead", I'd be like, "Uh, no and don't tell me what to do." But it becmoes a problem when it's interfering with your daily life cause he's doing it so much. As long as he still desires you, it may be in your best interest to try and accept his hobbies.


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## Alysaria (Jul 7, 2009)

lek373 said:


> I think marriage is about filling each others every need. I am willing to do that for my husband. I think that is the beauty of true love and intimacy in a marriage. If you want to fullfill your needs outside of your partner then you shouldn't get married. It's not a business contract. It is a lifelong spiritual connectedness that the two of you should share together. If you value autonomy, and don't feel like you need emotional intimacy then you shouldn't get married.


You cannot fulfill every need of another person. It's not possible....especially if those aren't being communicated. Clearly there is something not being communicated - either his physical needs or your emotional ones. Have you had an honest discussion with him? 

I get the impression you're threatened by the porn more than anything...


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## Master Mind (Aug 15, 2011)

Souled In said:


> Are you saying people never date people they were previously friends with?


Nice strawman. I never said anything of the sort. Evidently you missed the _IF you aren't dating your friends_ part that began my sentence.

:dry:


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## Up and Away (Mar 5, 2011)

Master Mind said:


> Nice strawman. I never said anything of the sort. Evidently you missed the _IF you aren't dating your friends_ part that began my sentence.
> 
> :dry:


Okay, so you aren't saying that. Do you think it? I apologize about the implication..


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

Souled In said:


> Okay, so you aren't saying that. Do you think it? I apologize about the implication..


I honestly don't see the point. Are you saying you befriend people you intend to date? My mind doesn't even go there when I make friends with someone. That's why a 'dealbreaker' wouldn't apply to them. My set of dealbreakers applies to those I date.

I have a girlfriend right now banging everything. I wouldn't put up with that in a mate.

Argh. I can't believe I kept this thread alive. :frustrating:


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## Up and Away (Mar 5, 2011)

pinkrasputin said:


> I honestly don't see the point. Are you saying you befriend people you intend to date? My mind doesn't even go there when I make friends with someone. That's why a 'dealbreaker' wouldn't apply to them. My set of dealbreakers applies to those I date.
> 
> I have a girlfriend right now banging everything. I wouldn't put up with that in a mate.
> 
> Argh. I can't believe I kept this thread alive. :frustrating:


Well, because feelings for friends creep up.

And I mean that as an example that we are emotional and instinctive creatures that still often love people that don't meet our values (deal breakers).

I'm not saying we shouldn't exercise caution, I'm saying that I am seeing some people be quite far on the strict and judgemental end, and others being on the care free for other people's cautions end, and it is probably somewhere in the middle, perhaps even more so a journey of discovering meaning for the OP, amongst other things..

Feel free to pm me if you'd rather keep me goin instead of the thread

(cheese smile)


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## Robert Foster (Jun 15, 2012)

I decided to succumb to my curiosity: Hey, OP, did you reach a decision about what you're gonna do with your hubby about his porn watching? I really hope you decided to talk with him.


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## lek373 (May 25, 2012)

Robert Foster said:


> I decided to succumb to my curiosity: Hey, OP, did you reach a decision about what you're gonna do with your hubby about his porn watching? I really hope you decided to talk with him.


I'm not sure I understand? It isn't my decision, it's his. Nevertheless, I brought the topic up with him and we've talked about it. Hasn't really gone anywhere. I still have my personal beliefs on why I don't like it, and he still watches it on occasion which is totally fine. As long as I don't see it and he's not addicted to it, I don't see a problem with it anymore. Our sex life is healthy, so I'm not going to kill myself worrying over it.


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## Inphamous (May 10, 2011)

"Jealousy is definitely a factor, and I believe a large reason some women look down on other more promiscuous women. I see it in part as supply and demand. I imagine someone is selling lemonade for 20c a glass, and later someone moves in across the street and sells their own for 10c a glass. There's going to be a bit of an upset over that. And for those who value their sex as a commodity, there is going to be resentment over being undersold. I'm not saying that is the only reason people have negative feelings towards the promiscuous (I myself look down on those who are not careful with their health), but is certainly a basic reason hammered in by our evolutionary process." 

Brilliantly put Manhattan. This was exactly the conclusion I came to when pondering why so many women dislike both porn and "easy" women. I doubt its conscious for most but i think supply and demand is the essential cause for their feelings of repulsion and other, less selfish sounding evidence is used to support their view.

Dont think im just picking on women though lol men are just as bad just in different ways. Everyone wants to set the rules of society up to give them the advantage. The smart person sets himself up to take advantage of whatever rules are in place.


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## Persephone (Nov 14, 2009)

I find mushroom disgusting. Is there something wrong with me?

Honestly, as a female, porn is something I never had to "learn to accept". It's just there, like masturbation. Some females don't care about it (I am obviously one of those. He can watch as much porn as he wants as long as he doesn't break his bank, which, I suppose before marriage, is none of my business), some females hate it, but it's not going anywhere and if my boyfriend is offended at female masturbation then he should deal with it.


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## lek373 (May 25, 2012)

@Inphamous @Persephone Never said I had a problem with masturbation. I do that too. It's the porn(specifically hardcore) that I have a problem with, and if you read my earlier posts you would would have gotten the WHOLE picture. Like I said, I sat down at the computer one morning to find a window of a girl getting fucked in the ass. Also, another instance of a woman getting smacked in the face with a man forcing his d*** down her throat. It kind of ruined my day and lead to this thread. You girls are soooo AMAZING that you don't have a problem with it. I guess any man is lucky to have a woman like you. You are so openminded that it doesn't bother you. I guess Im just a jelous bitch:laughing:. Puuulease!


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## Persephone (Nov 14, 2009)

lek373 said:


> @_Inphamous_ @_Persephone_ Never said I had a problem with masturbation. I do that too. It's the porn(specifically hardcore) that I have a problem with, and if you read my earlier posts you would would have gotten the WHOLE picture. Like I said, I sat down at the computer one morning to find a window of a girl getting fucked in the ass. Also, another instance of a woman getting smacked in the face with a man forcing his d*** down her throat. It kind of ruined my day and lead to this thread. You girls are soooo AMAZING that you don't have a problem with it. I guess any man is lucky to have a woman like you. You are so openminded that it doesn't bother you. I guess Im just a jelous bitch:laughing:. Puuulease!


I didn't say you had a problem with masturbation. I said the porn issue is _like_ masturbation in that many men and women feel that the practice is disgusting, or that they are disrespected because the partner engages in it (porn or masturbation). I'm saying you should deal with it, that's all. Maybe you should tell him to do it somewhere else you can't see it, but it comes down to personal preference. I find shiitake mushrooms disgusting (disgusting enough if I ingest one I start retching, and if I smell one I want to flee the room), and I don't think there's anything wrong with me but I always hated it when my family had to cook mushroom and then I would have to forgo the entire dish because there are mushrooms in it, yet I still respect their right to eat mushrooms sometimes. It's called a compromise.

If you find porn disgusting, then all power to you and there's nothing wrong with you. We all have our hangups. Simply find an acceptable solution for the both of you. For instance, I tell my family to have mushrooms more rarely, and they do it. You could, for instance, work out a schedule and location for him to watch porn you do not approve of, but when you're together in your alone time, no porn allowed.

_We're all irrational. Compromise._

^ That's all I mean. Sorry if you took offense.


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## YOLOsodie (Jun 26, 2012)

That's very disrespectful if your husband watches porn unless you know and approve of it, besides it's proven that it can ruin their performance in the 'bedroom department' so it only damages them in the long run.:kitteh:


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## Inphamous (May 10, 2011)

lek373 said:


> @_Inphamous_ @_Persephone_ Never said I had a problem with masturbation. I do that too. It's the porn(specifically hardcore) that I have a problem with, and if you read my earlier posts you would would have gotten the WHOLE picture. Like I said, I sat down at the computer one morning to find a window of a girl getting fucked in the ass. Also, another instance of a woman getting smacked in the face with a man forcing his d*** down her throat. It kind of ruined my day and lead to this thread. You girls are soooo AMAZING that you don't have a problem with it. I guess any man is lucky to have a woman like you. You are so openminded that it doesn't bother you. I guess Im just a jelous bitch:laughing:. Puuulease!


Didnt meen to offend i was actually just pointing out i view point that I happened to agree with in general. I think that contempt for anything that we believe (even subconsciously) to devalue something about ourselves is about as common among people as being born with arms and legs or having skin. 

My point was just that people are selfish and try to mask it, normally to themselves as well. Nothing new about that idea but breaking it down to supply and demand is just a nice way to illustrate that.

That being said, a persons motives for bringing up a point and facts to support it does not invalidate said facts / points unless that person is trying to use a moral pedistool (not saying you are) to prop up their arguements. I personally veiw a moral stance as a dangerous stance to take in any arguement because so many disagreements can be shown to come from very selfish desires.


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## TreeBob (Oct 11, 2008)

YOLOsodie said:


> That's very disrespectful if your husband watches porn unless you know and approve of it, besides it's proven that it can ruin their performance in the 'bedroom department' so it only damages them in the long run.:kitteh:


How does it ruin our performance? Are we talking about porn skewing our reality or it ruins us cause we just got off and it may be harder to get off again with our partner ?


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## Persephone (Nov 14, 2009)

YOLOsodie said:


> That's very disrespectful if your husband watches porn unless you know and approve of it, besides it's proven that it can ruin their performance in the 'bedroom department' so it only damages them in the long run.:kitteh:


I hope that doesn't mean I have to tell my boyfriend I masturbate and watch porn sometimes (not hardcore, mind you, but still porn). It's an intensely personal issue for me and I don't see why he has to be in on it.


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## YOLOsodie (Jun 26, 2012)

TreeBob said:


> How does it ruin our performance? Are we talking about porn skewing our reality or it ruins us cause we just got off and it may be harder to get off again with our partner ?


In that case why would anyone bother with that partner if they find it hard getting 'off' on them?


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## lek373 (May 25, 2012)

I think this horse has been beaten to death. Thank you for your objective analysis though, it helps. I filter everything through my value system and judge from there.
Like I said earlier, my husband and I have compromised as best we can on the issue. He watches the more "vanilla" variety, and I've stopped questioning when and if he does it. It's not my business. Out of sight out of mind. I just don't want to find it, I would rather be in denial. :tongue:
If we start having less sex or something, then I might bring it up again. But at this point, it's a nonissue.


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## Abyss Soul (Jul 11, 2010)

YOLOsodie said:


> In that case why would anyone bother with that partner if they find it hard getting 'off' on them?


Assuming this is a rhetorical question, you're implying that this is a problem as a result of using porn. Except if a person uses porn in moderation, this won't be a problem for the most part, if at all.


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## YOLOsodie (Jun 26, 2012)

GloriousEnd314 said:


> Assuming this is a rhetorical question, you're implying that this is a problem as a result of using porn. Except if a person uses porn in moderation, this won't be a problem for the most part, if at all.


'Twas a rhetorical question what i'm implying is if you were with the right person you wouldn't need porn to jack off :mellow:


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## Abyss Soul (Jul 11, 2010)

YOLOsodie said:


> 'what i'm implying is if you were with the right person you wouldn't need porn to jack off :mellow:


This sweeping statement doesn't apply to everybody even if one found the "right" person. There are times when the sexual drives of a couple may not exactly be on the same wavelength. In that case, it's okay for the sexually activated person to resort to porn, unless the other is not okay with it or for some religious reason.


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## YOLOsodie (Jun 26, 2012)

GloriousEnd314 said:


> This sweeping statement doesn't apply to everybody even if one found the "right" person. There are times when the sexual drives of a couple may not exactly be on the same wavelength. In that case, it's okay for the sexually activated person to resort to porn, unless the other is not okay with it or for some religious reason.


Then have a affair, Porn is just sleazy and over-exaggerated.


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## Robert Foster (Jun 15, 2012)

lek373 said:


> I'm not sure I understand? It isn't my decision, it's his. Nevertheless, I brought the topic up with him and we've talked about it. Hasn't really gone anywhere. I still have my personal beliefs on why I don't like it, and he still watches it on occasion which is totally fine. As long as I don't see it and he's not addicted to it, I don't see a problem with it anymore. Our sex life is healthy, so I'm not going to kill myself worrying over it.


Good to know you aren't going to spend a lot of time obsessing over it. I hope you guys are happy.


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## Inphamous (May 10, 2011)

YOLOsodie said:


> Then have a affair, Porn is just sleazy and over-exaggerated.


Sometimes I will masterbate (sometimes to porn and sometimes not) as many as 4 times in a day... That would be alot of affairs.

Aside from its impracticality, its irrational to prefer risking stds via cheating rather than permiting masterbation via porn.


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## YOLOsodie (Jun 26, 2012)

Inphamous said:


> Sometimes I will masterbate (sometimes to porn and sometimes not) as many as 4 times in a day... That would be alot of affairs.
> 
> Aside from its impracticality, its irrational to prefer risking stds via cheating rather than permiting masterbation via porn.


Then please tell me what's the difference between watching porn and having a affair? When both you are linked to hearing another woman moan?


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## Inphamous (May 10, 2011)

YOLOsodie said:


> Then please tell me what's the difference between watching porn and having a affair? When both you are linked to hearing another woman moan?


I already pointed out the primary difference, STDs. Also with porn there is only one real person involved (the masterbater) so any other interaction that might occur between two people (emotional attachment outside the monogamous relationship, pregnancy, etc) is a non-issue.


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## Ovi (Jul 5, 2012)

MelissaC said:


> Oh god, everywhere I go lately I encounter this argument or sentiment.
> 
> First of all, porn isn't going anywhere, in your personal life or otherwise. The more you berate your husband for his porn use, the more secretively he'll use it...and which is worse, the simple fact that he watches porn, or that he _sneakily _watches porn?
> 
> ...


I think you missed the point. Honestly, I don't enjoy pornography that degrades women to mere sexual objects. It's not about those women in particular, but women in general. Watching that kind of pornography might give the impression that he objectifies women more or less. The second issue I don't think is necessarily jealousy, but that your partner basically affirms that he is not satisfied with his sexual life. Both I think are valid issues.


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## Mutatio NOmenis (Jun 22, 2009)

You ought to have an honest conversation with him about pornography and its place in your marriage. Maybe upgrade how often you have sex and cuddle. Or alternatively, give him more space. He sounds like he might have something called "death grip syndrome" where he's so used to masturbation that he has trouble feeling the same pleasure during intercourse. Getting mad at porn and attacking him won't solve the issue and only makes things worse. He probably doesn't entirely realize what he's doing to you.


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## kudi (Sep 27, 2011)

> Good to know you aren't going to spend a lot of time obsessing over it. I hope you guys are happy.


Hurray to that. Its a non issue unless its taken to an extreme. Its annoying when its made into a huge issue when its common practice, its just that no one talks about it.


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