# Last Chance to Type Ms. Spades!



## Stephen (Jan 17, 2011)

Spades said:


> I summon, *alphabetically*


That's Te.



> But please, for the love of the universe, *do not quote this post*!


*laughs maniacally as the universe collapses*

Based on questions 3, 10, and 19, I think you're an extravert. 
That means Te dom. ExTJ.

I see Te-Si in little places throughout your OP. I think you're ESTJ.

*bows*


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## Berdudget (Mar 24, 2011)

I haven't read the whole thread yet. Here's my take. Personally, I think the cognitive funtions tests suck. And I think this questionaire is only barely useful. It was, afterall, written up by site members, not scientists or anything. I think people see what they want to see with these things. I think the "web site" typing mentality is deeply lacking. I say this as someone who's read 7 enneagram books and probably just as many books on MBTI. That being said, based on what you wrote, I see a lot of Ni, personally. And I see J. And I see 7. LOL. But I'm probably biased.


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## Agent Blackout (Mar 1, 2012)

Berdudget said:


> I haven't read the whole thread yet. Here's my take. Personally, I think the cognitive funtions tests suck. And I think this questionaire is only barely useful. It was, afterall, written up by site members, not scientists or anything. I think people see what they want to see with these things. I think the "web site" typing mentality is deeply lacking. I say this as someone who's read 7 enneagram books and probably just as many books on MBTI. That being said, based on what you wrote, I see a lot of Ni, personally. And I see J. And I see 7. LOL. But I'm probably biased.


Hahaha nice


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## Jewl (Feb 28, 2012)

Oh, I don't know @Spades. I trust the decision you come to about yourself. That's the type you are. But if you simply want the entertainment of watching me hazard a guess, I will tell you I can see Te, I think. I'm pretty sure that's your dominant function. My gut instinct is telling me Te+Ni. Stephen brought up a good point. You could very well be Te+Si. -shrugs- 

I honestly don't really know. ^_^

EDIT: Reading over your questionnaire again simply confirms that you are type EPIC. And I'm doubting myself 100%. Ni is looking like Ne. Te is looking like Ti... or Fi... But blegh, I'm unsure. XD


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## possiBri (Jan 4, 2011)

From this new questionnaire I am definitely seeing INTJ, but I think your E/I and F/T are a bit balanced. Additionally, you're for sure a 7w6 with 4 in your tritype, and I think the 7-ness is causing it to seem like you have Ne (though you could have the Ne more developed).


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## Neon Knight (Aug 11, 2010)

While I'm tempted to quote it, I won't  If you're asking me to type you you're looking at the wrong person, unfortunately. I just wanted to let you know I wasn't ignoring the post but I can't make a worthwhile contribution either. Yeah tests suck, I'm throwing away everything I've picked up until now and that's a harder task than I thought. What I'd recommend is go straight to Jung to figure out your dominant and the rest seems to be irrelevant. You should be able to at least figure out your first 2 but I haven't been able to do this even for myself so trying on others isn't the best idea. I did see something interesting lately though that suggested that when you're confronted with a new situation, how you handle it might be a good indication. I'm still waiting for mine but until then...I'm gonna be careful to not type anyone, sorry i can't be of help. I don't like questionnaires either because answers can be fudged by just not knowing yourself well enough and truthfully, you can fit anything to what your bias is whatever that may be, I know because I did the same. Not only that, your mood could affect things as well, say if you're depressed you're answers can vary quite a bit from your natural healthy self. I also experienced this. Lastly, I don't like questionnaires or tests because I find too much of it is behaviour focused and not so much internal processes. Hopefully you can find your answers here, otherwise I'd recommend asking someone who actually knows what they're talking about even privately if you are really really lost. That's all


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

Oh, I have so much more to learn before I contribute to this thread!


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## LibertyPrime (Dec 17, 2010)

*7w6 sp/sx* fer sure...as for MBTI (hell I'm not even sure bout my type). Based on this thread and whut I knoe of ye, I'd say *XNTJ or ENFP.*

Some things that make me think ENTJ would be that you use a lot of Te, you are highly intuitive (I'd say intuitive dom) and have J-ish tendencies...but also that you seem to use *Se*, which would put it maybe on 3rd place so Te=Ni>Se>Fi.

However your intuitive approach here seems very *Ne* and your stress reaction is *Si-ish* <.< which suggests *ENFP*.

Si and Fi has been known to be confused for one another <.< so it could be that ENTJs react kinda the same under stress? Idk. The MBTI is puzzling.


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## reletative (Dec 17, 2010)

you're an ISTP. now come hang out with us.


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## aconite (Mar 26, 2012)

Okay, Ms. Spades. You're a Seven (stating the obvious, lol).

I think you're extroverted. That leaves us with 8 types out of 16. At first I was tempted to see Ni because of question 3 - but then again, 9 and 10 (and a part of 17) are an indication of Ne - 4 types left  You're a Te user in my opinion, I can't see any indication of Ti, but your wish to discover who you really are smells of Fi, and definitely not dominant Fi. 

Thus: ESTJ or ENFP with well-developed tertiary function. Your answers to questions 15 and 16, in my not so humble opinion, point to inferior Si rather than inferior Fi - I think ENFP is most likely. Obviously, you're rational and quite organised, which can make you seem more like a Thinker than a Feeler. Since both of your parents are Te users, I can see how it developed more than Fi. And my gut feeling tells me that your intuition is dominant.

BTW, I also learned the alphabet at similar age and could write at 3, and I can totally relate to what you wrote about your childhood and teenage years. But I'm obviously not the same MBTI type as you (although a 7 as well), so this is not very helpful, is it? 

Okay - my verdict is Ne-Fi-Te-Si. (But I voted for "You break the MBTI" too.)


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## Spades (Aug 31, 2011)

Whoa  Thanks everyone!! I got distracted when 3 of my friends decided to all show up at once to play GameCube with me, one of them bringing me a shrubbery (literally). I will uhh... respond when I'm more coherent and have slept =P


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## LibertyPrime (Dec 17, 2010)

Spades said:


> Whoa  Thanks everyone!! I got distracted when 3 of my friends decided to all show up at once to play GameCube with me, one of them bringing me a shrubbery (literally). I will uhh... respond when I'm more coherent and have slept =P







btw I still think you may be ENFP.


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## LotusBlossom (Apr 2, 2011)

for some odd reason I still think you're 6w7...always have.


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## Agape (Jan 22, 2012)

Like you said it is all about perception. My answer has its limitation because no matter how hard you try to understand someone, there will be a barrier that cannot be crossed. Language have too many limitations as any personality tools like MBTI. Personally I prefer to see people as organized energy with its own individual frequency and personal vibration . In all creation there aren't two people/consciousness that are similar. Personality tools helps to fill a bit the blanks/gap that exist between all of us. But at the end of the day is still a tool and prone to errors. Getting all that out of the way, my gut feeling tells me that you are an ENTP. Enneagram wise not a clue XD. I prefer to said Spades is Spades...that's more closer to the truth than anything else I can said.


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## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

Spades said:


> The following is completely honest and raw. Please do not read if you have no interest or if you wish to criticize. I prefer that you take your critical cap off, as these responses are very personal. *Forget any type I've ever claimed to be in the past*. Avoid any such biases. *Please do read Question 1*.
> 
> 
> *1) What aspect of your personality made you unsure of your type?*
> ...


You're either a tert. or inferior Fi or Se user, methinks...now which one is the big question. This sounds like classic inferior Se, I suspect (I relate as well):



> I would say the biggest issue is externalizing my inner achievements, as it's often tedious to do, and *I'd rather be respected for who I am* than what I do.


The bolded is definitely not inferior Fi, come to think of it. INTJ seems about right.


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## HandiAce (Nov 27, 2009)

Ni as a catalyst for hydrogenating delicious food ingredients!


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## HandiAce (Nov 27, 2009)

I would also like to add that Spades' outward behavior is a lot more playful, pointing to the possibility that she is an ENFP of sorts. Yet, the way she describes her attitude seems heavily based in Ni. 

What I don't know is if her attitude was always like an Ni type or it changed at some point....


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## Spades (Aug 31, 2011)

*My Responses:*

 I definitely think this is *not a good survey*. It's very dichotomy-based and does not seem to pull out the responders' Functions at all. Out of all that writing I did, trying really hard not to bias myself into any functions, I ended up barely hitting them at all. @_Flatlander_ and I are willing to make a much better (and shorter!) survey since this does a bad job, as the results clearly indicate.

Keep in mind, this was my purely honest response, forced out of myself. I really *dislike showing vulnerability*, so this is *not the kind of thing I typically go around sharing*.
 

@_Jawz_ 

I appreciate your time and effort in actually explaining how you saw Fe, unlike the other Fe bandwagoners here.

@_Enfpleasantly_ 

You have keen insight into Ne and Fi because you have an excellent grasp of them (and also use them yourself =P) I value your input.

@_Agent Blackout_ 

Thanks man! I'm glad you could spot the Te beneath all that gushy talk. People forget T's have feelings and values too.

@_Finaille_ 

Thanks for your input! I completely agree about the questions being one-dimensional and missing the core of the functions.

@_Wake_ 

I didn't expect a response from you but I thought I would throw you in there anyway =P I actually *do* relate to Type 7 *a lot*, after reading more about it. To be honest, I dismissed it for superficial reasons that had to do with the image of 7's Riso & Hudson first placed in my mind: Materialistic, can't sit still, avoids the inner world, etc. Definitely *not* what Type 7 is all about at the core. Furthermore, the tritype makes up fully for the discrepancies.

@_Stephen_ 

Thanks for your response! I definitely have Sensation qualities which for some reason this quiz never addressed and so I forgot to talk about them. ESTJ is a possibility, as is ESFP.

@_Rim_ 

Thanks as always =) I think from our previous talks, you seem to have a good grasp of my personality, so I appreciate your input!

@_aconite_ 

Thanks for the response! Wasn't sure you knew me well enough, but I figured an input from another 748 couldn't hurt =P Great insights!

@_Kayness_ 

Huh, really? Interesting. Do you mind elaborating a little (maybe on my wall as to not derail)? Is it all the Type Me threads I make, because I can address this, if so. The only reason I was a 6 for a couple weeks is because I related to Type 5 and Type 7 both a lot, so I thought maybe Type 6 was sort of a combination (being contradictory and all), but that was entirely due to a misunderstanding of the Enneagram. I'm 99% certain I'm not a 6 now, so I'm curious.

@_HandiAce_ 

Excellent observation and very true! That was my main issue with the JCF to begin with! MBTI, I'm an official tried and true xNTJ! But JCF, I exhibit ENTP/ENFP behaviour. I think it's Se-Ni in action, somehow masking itself as Ne. I guess to really know, one would have to talk to me in person =P


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## SilentScream (Mar 31, 2011)

@Spades ... if you wanna do a questionnaire with an attempt to draw out a person's function use-age, I'm in. 

I'm also extremely keen on settling the Te vs Fe dilemma once and for all. It's one that confuses me every now and then. 

Lastly, another coarse way of self-typing is through the inferior function - even though a lot of people just want to look at the first two.

In my case, I finally read up a lot on inferior Ti yesterday - and I knew that there's a lot of truth to it when I felt the urge to refuse to accept it  [It almost had an Enneagram-isque flavour to it in pointing out weak areas].


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## HandiAce (Nov 27, 2009)

Spades said:


> Excellent observation and very true! That was my main issue with the JCF to begin with! MBTI, I'm an official triad and true xNTJ! But JCF, I exhibit ENTP/ENFP behaviour. I think it's Se-Ni in action, somehow masking itself as Ne. I guess to really know, one would have to talk to me in person =P


I think your ENXP behavior could be attributed by your Socionics temperament which is likely to be EXXp. I'm similar in that I'm a Pi-dominant under MBTI, but act with energy levels fluctuating and interests like an NP type.


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## Spades (Aug 31, 2011)

HandiAce said:


> I think your ENXP behavior could be attributed by your Socionics temperament which is likely to be EXXp. I'm similar in that I'm a Pi-dominant under MBTI, but act with energy levels fluctuating and interests like an NP type.


I never got along with socionics because I related to all four NT's. *However*, the one that fit me best (description-wise) was ILE (ENTp) so you do have a point.

Furthermore, I forgot to address how much I agree that my personality could have changed from childhood. I developed Te through my interest (and schooling) in Physical Sciences, I developed Ni through my (now 5 years?) experience with meditation and other mind-altering practices, and I developed Fi through various other experiences.

It's difficult to determine what *was* the most natural anymore.


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

From analysis, xNTJ.

Maybe ENTJ, barely. But with a nice Fi undertone to it all.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

Ne Ti
7w6

tenchar


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## Spades (Aug 31, 2011)

*Five* votes for Fe dom, *one* person explaining where the saw it.

Evidence/reasoning besides bandwagoning or I don't buy it.


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## Agent Blackout (Mar 1, 2012)

Spades said:


> *Five* votes for Fe dom, *one* person explaining where the saw it.
> 
> Evidence/reasoning besides bandwagoning or I don't buy it.


You care so much about other people... YOUCARESOMUCHHHHHH *sobs*
that's why, lmao

On a related note, if you know what Invader Zim is, this is what I was thinking of:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtV8vvwnyIY


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## Spades (Aug 31, 2011)

Agent Blackout said:


> You care so much about other people... YOUCARESOMUCHHHHHH *sobs*
> that's why, lmao


I do?!?!?

Maybe I should've never done MDMA... Empathy is such a horrible burden to humanity!


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## Angelic Gardevoir (Oct 7, 2010)

NJ is all I can conclude. Yes, @Spades, you do break MBTI. (I might actually break it in a few ways too...lol.)


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## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

I do think you're an interesting case in general, @Spades. Like, you seem to have this heavily ENFP-ish persona (maybe somewhat related to being an enneagram 7, which is uber common for ENFPs and you share two of the same functions in a close order to them, Te and Fi), but when I get your F side from you, it comes out as more raw and personal than it probably would in a more seasoned extraverted F user like an ENFP, while you also have the stereotypical hyper-individualism and cynicism about humanity of a tert. or inferior Fi user. You're without a doubt a Te type though.


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## Jabberbroccoli (Mar 19, 2011)

Never talked to you before, just kinda read over the OP, and looked at your singature and what not. Don't really see SCOEI, but I do see |I|. Hah. I kind of cheated. Would have tabbed you as SCUA|I| were we talking about that test. Pfft. Anways.

You break the MBTI. I vote 11w10 for your Enneagram as well.

If I HAD to type you, in order to decide which death-camp to send you to (you know, death camp selection is important. ENTP death-camp is ISTJ heaven, and vice versa), I would go with ENFP. Or ENFJ, or some wierd screwy ENTP. Fx - Ne . Then I'd go with 7w6 or 6w7.

I hear post retiree's bingo is tonight at the Smell of the Sea Casino and Hostel. Be there.


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

Ah ok.so you're accepting Enneagram feedback as well.

I've been thinking about your tritype, and I am leaning more 9w8 for your gut fix. I know 8w9 fixers are not easily provoked etc., but I don't see an 8 fixers readiness for engaging conflict in you. You're an id type, and you're assertive without a doubt. But 8 fixed 7s have this raw aggression (not internet tough guy crap). There's this palpable 8-ish forcefulness to them that I don't sense in you. During one of our conversations, you had mentioned, perhaps, half-jokingly that you didn't check a thread because it had turned conflictual (you said you were terrified of visiting it). I am not taking the terrifying part literally at all, but I often sense that you're not fully comfortable in the heat of serious conflict. 8 fixers are most at home in conflict 8 fixed 7s..heck yes.


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## Spades (Aug 31, 2011)

Thanks everyone! That was fun.

Alright, so before I reveal what I think my type is, here are some pretty pictures of test results.

*PersonalDNA:*










(Free-wheeling Inventor)


*Big Five:*










(SCOEI)


Any opinions based off above results?

Still awaiting explanations as to where people saw Fe.


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## Agent Blackout (Mar 1, 2012)

Spades said:


> Thanks everyone! That was fun.
> 
> Alright, so before I reveal what I think my type is, here are some pretty pictures of test results.
> 
> ...


There's ****'s everywhere! Lol
Can't see the images


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## Agent Blackout (Mar 1, 2012)

It says you're a free spirit, lol


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## Spades (Aug 31, 2011)

Agent Blackout said:


> There's ****'s everywhere! Lol
> Can't see the images


Yeah, for some reason fileden . com is blocked here?



Agent Blackout said:


> It says you're a free spirit, lol


I would hope so, if I wanna be a "free-wheeling inventor" ^_~


Edit: Also, I'm apparently male.


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## Obsidian (Aug 10, 2011)

From watching your videos, I thought you seemed like a pretty typical INTJ. That is what I voted for. I don't understand why you changed yourself to ENTJ, or what all the confusion or this thread is about.


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## Spades (Aug 31, 2011)

Obsidian said:


> From watching your videos, I thought you seemed like a pretty typical INTJ. That is what I voted for. I don't understand why you changed yourself to ENTJ, or what all the confusion or this thread is about.


Typical INTJ, hahaha! Guess you never saw the one where I run around in fairy wings.

Fair enough, I appreciate your response. People are free to re-consider their own type if they wish.


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## saffron (Jan 30, 2011)

I'm a 7w6 4w5 9w1 ENFP, and I could have answered all of the answers in the questionnaire about the same, though that could come down to enneagram. I've always suspected you were an ENFP though. I honestly don't see where people are seeing Ni and Fe here. All of your judgements are essentially open ended and you seem to value that and personally defined meaningful experiences. That's Ne and Fi in my reading. And ENFPs can come across as Te doms at times. It's often easier to communicate with Te since Ne and Fi don't convey too easily. And I agree that you seem to be Si inferior.

Are you going to tell us what you believe your type to be. That is, if you still believe you can be typed?


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

I'm curious as to where those who have responded with Ne types have seen the Ne.


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## saffron (Jan 30, 2011)

Flatlander said:


> I'm curious as to where those who have responded with Ne types have seen the Ne.


It's all over the OP, but here's a prime example:

_Ideas. Interesting abstract concepts to stimulate our minds, personal perspectives, descriptions of how our minds work differently, our deepest motivations and desires, our life-changing experiences, ideas that start somewhere and end up anywhere. Nonsense, silliness, metaphor, science, philosophy, spirituality, otherworldly experiences and thoughts, models of the universe, worldviews, subjective interpretations, mystical and emotional experience, deep realizations, the craziest ideas imaginable. Exploring and pushing the boundaries of human experience together, feeling an intense connection which transcends space-time. Ideally_.

That's Ne in a nutshell. Actually, it's Ne Fi in a nutshell.


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

saffron said:


> It's all over the OP, but here's a prime example:
> 
> _Ideas. Interesting abstract concepts to stimulate our minds, personal perspectives, descriptions of how our minds work differently, our deepest motivations and desires, our life-changing experiences, ideas that start somewhere and end up anywhere. Nonsense, silliness, metaphor, science, philosophy, spirituality, otherworldly experiences and thoughts, models of the universe, worldviews, subjective interpretations, mystical and emotional experience, deep realizations, the craziest ideas imaginable. Exploring and pushing the boundaries of human experience together, feeling an intense connection which transcends space-time. Ideally_.
> 
> That's Ne in a nutshell. Actually, it's Ne Fi in a nutshell.


It can also be interpreted as Ni or Ne with some other function, it doesn't have to be Feeling-related because it contains interest in the themes at hand.


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## saffron (Jan 30, 2011)

Flatlander said:


> It can also be interpreted as Ni or Ne with some other function, it doesn't have to be Feeling-related because it contains interest in the themes at hand.


Interest in themes helps define. It's what you gravitate towards overall, even though it may be slight in margins, and doesn't make you less less intelligent.


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

Saffron said:


> Interest in themes helps define. It's what you gravitate towards overall, even though it may be slight in margins, and doesn't make you less less intelligent.


I'm not making any claims on Feeling and intelligence. I know already that it doesn't work that way.

I don't think that interest in themes has to define. Cognitive function is all about processing, right? It's about what kind of processing is done most. I'm looking for specifically the processing here that is Ne - I saw a few possibilities, but I saw far too much Ni and Te as a running theme when I read this over to consider Ne/Fi probable.

I was kind of looking for analysis. I could offer mine, though I did already more privately and it seems redundant.


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## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

> Guess you never saw the one where I run around in fairy wings.


I know T types who do similar things IRL. I can see any type liking fairies for whatever the reason - perhaps the reason why might make a difference in how F or T this stereotypically seems.


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## Spades (Aug 31, 2011)

JungyesMBTIno said:


> I know T types who do similar things IRL. I can see any type liking fairies for whatever the reason - perhaps the reason why might make a difference in how F or T this stereotypically seems.


I wasn't referring to the *fact* I was wearing wings at all. This would say nothing about how I process information, but perhaps says something about my motivations: As a 7, I like to remain youthful for life! I was more referring to how I acted more "extroverted" in the video, though again, behaviour says little about processing. It just doesn't make sense to me how people can type others based on a couple videos, especially ones where I'm talking to a camera, not natural ones like the one of me with wings =P


To reiterate what @_Flatlander_ was saying above, it's not the *content* of my posting that says anything about my JCF's, it's more *how* I present it, and *how* I answered the questions (what was my focus?). One can't simply use key words like "connecting with others" to conclude Fe. Context is key. I assume people besides Fe users like to have friends, sometimes? To be honest, I wanted to emphasize that I'm not as introverted as I seem, so I added more things like that ^_~


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## Obsidian (Aug 10, 2011)

Spades said:


> I was more referring to how I acted more "extroverted" in the video, though again, behaviour says little about processing.


Acting extraverted to a video is almost an oxymoron. It doesn't mean much.

E versus I is one of the hardest things to tell from video. The main way to do it is by calculating how much feeling the person seems to have, and then factoring that in to the various possible function orders.

That said, no I have not seen the fairy video. But I have seen INTJs act weird.


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## Spades (Aug 31, 2011)

Obsidian said:


> The main way to do it is by calculating how much *feeling* the person seems to have, and then factoring that in to the various possible function orders.


Can you elaborate on what you mean by "how much feeling"?

How much "feeling" a person has, says *nothing* about how much emphasis they place on their values. I assume you meant something else.



Obsidian said:


> But I have seen INTJs act weird.


I thought it was a *given* that INTJ's act weird =P


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## Enfpleasantly (Mar 5, 2012)

Well, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and speak as straight forward as possible. I hope I don't offend you @_Spades_ , because that is not what is intended at all. Here goes...

When typing people, I used to watch and assess behavior patterns; I can link them to functions, but I can't always bring to words why that is. When I used to type people that way, I was freaking GOOD at it. I came here and noticed a heavy influence from people who dismiss behavior patterns as "stereotype" and "illogical". I think sometimes this is the case, but not when the behaviors are approached objectively instead of subjectively; there is a difference. Anyway, I noticed a lot of preference for JCF because it's more "logical", but that's not necessarily true for someone who has watched and noticed human behavior since birth. So, when I started to learn the functions and attempt to type people based on that alone, I sucked at it! I did get a pretty good understanding of many of the functions, but moreso on how they affect us. I know that a Ne dom trapped in an Si grip can become dark and obssessed with facts (if ENFP) or dark and emotional (if ENTP), so to me behaviors play a huge role in typing. 

That being said, here is what I observe:

Spades is a very intelligent girl and she happens to be a ENFP (my analysis).This can be a hard pill to swallow for someone who values their competency in as high of a regard as she does. So, here she is, this smart girl who has to wear the "ditzy, irresponsible, irrational, ADD" badge of ENFP (or any other F type) and forfeit her ability to be taken seriously on this forum by many posters. 

I think spades takes tests knowing which function the question pertains to. I think she has been trying to convince herself that she is an NT and now wants to solidify that by seeing that others think she's an NT as well. This is not me trying to be rude or nasty towards Spades; I actually feel like Spades and I are quite similar in some ways. I test as ENTP and INTP on functions tests, but it is always close to middle ground for every function except Ne, however, I always test as ENFP in MBTI. I conclude that I am a well- balanced ENFP with good development of my functions. I have similar views towards humanity and people in general as Spades, yet she tests on functions tests as having low to poorly developed value functions; this is a discrepancy in my mind that is blatant! 

Does this make spades an ENFP? No, it doesn't. Is my analysis fact based? Nope, entirely subjective (based on *my* objective assessment of behavior). Does that mean it's defintiely wrong? No.

If we didn't have people in this world who could believe in things that weren't supported by fact or proof, then we wouldn't make as many new discoveries. So, think about just how much you want to be ALL logic, or ALL feeling. I'd say balance is what we should all strive for.

Spades, I think you are an intelligent, logical (gasp!), ENFP.

By the way, fairly wings had nothing to do with my analysis


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## Obsidian (Aug 10, 2011)

Spades said:


> How much "feeling" a person has, says *nothing* about how much emphasis they place on their values. I assume you meant something else.


I did not mean anything else. I think "values" is a pretty dumb definition for Feeling. And it isn't one that you can very easily get from Jung. To me, Feeling means making decisions based on FEELING. Essentially, "values" is just a euphemism that feelers assign to their emotional decisions to make themselves feel more sensible. In reality, values can be based on either thinking or feeling.


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## Spades (Aug 31, 2011)

Obsidian said:


> I did not mean anything else. I think "values" is a pretty dumb definition for Feeling. And it isn't one that you can very easily get from Jung. To me, Feeling means making decisions based on FEELING. Essentially, "values" is just a euphemism that feelers assign to their emotional decisions to make themselves feel more sensible. In reality, values can be based on either thinking or feeling.


Then I strongly disagree, and I don't think further discussion will take us anywhere. It's easy to observe how everyone acts on their feelings, whether conscious of it or not. It's the expansion of *awareness* that helps us make more clear and rational decisions, *not *whether they are based on logic or values. Anyone can do this.


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## Obsidian (Aug 10, 2011)

Again, I take exception to your implication that due to my logic, I lack values.


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## Spades (Aug 31, 2011)

Obsidian said:


> Again, I take exception to your implication that due to my logic, I lack values.


I didn't mean to imply that at all. *It's not what you have, it's what you primarily use to make decisions*. Most people use some balance of both. On the flip side, just because someone has strong values doesn't mean they can't be highly skilled at using logic.

Anyway, I see where you get the idea that F is making decisions based on Feelings. MBTI tests certainly imply that, hence resulting in me always getting T in them. MBTI and JCF are just two different beasts.


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## Enfpleasantly (Mar 5, 2012)

Obsidian said:


> I did not mean anything else. I think "values" is a pretty dumb definition for Feeling. And it isn't one that you can very easily get from Jung. To me, Feeling means making decisions based on FEELING. Essentially, "values" is just a euphemism that feelers assign to their emotional decisions to make themselves feel more sensible. In reality, values can be based on either thinking or feeling.


False. It is a value system in dom and aux users and more attached to emotions when in tert and inferior positions. 



> Effective dominant Introverted Feeling types use a finely developed awareness of their inner values as a reliable guide for judging themselves and others. In the grip of inferior Introverted Feeling, Extraverted Thinking types become hypersensitive to their own and others emotions, often misinterpreting comments from others as personal criticism. In their dominant approach, they typically interpret objectively offered criticism by respected colleagues as an appropriate means to promote excellence. In the grip of their inferior Introverted Feeling, they may easily take offense and overreact to such criticism.


http://personalitycafe.com/entj-articles/95932-form-inferior-function-fi.html


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## Obsidian (Aug 10, 2011)

I think it's just plain logic that values and logic are not opposites, and also that one does not repress the other. But logic and feelings often do repress each other. Saying what I have and what I base my emotions on is no different. You may not mean to, but you are accusing me of acting without values. I don't take any emotional offense at this accusation, but I just think it is logically absurd.

And Jung does not equate the term feeling with values.


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## Obsidian (Aug 10, 2011)

ENFPleasantly said:


> False. It is a value system in dom and aux users and more attached to emotions when in tert and inferior positions.


You could say basically the same about Ti.


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## Enfpleasantly (Mar 5, 2012)

Obsidian said:


> I think it's just plain logic that values and logic are not opposites, and also that one does not repress the other. But logic and feelings often do repress each other. Saying what I have and what I base my emotions on is no different. You may not mean to, but you are accusing me of acting without values. I don't take any emotional offense at this accusation, but I just think it is logically absurd.
> 
> And Jung does not equate the term feeling with values.


Well welcome to the world of feeling types having no logic, and sensing types having no depth.


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## MuChApArAdOx (Jan 24, 2011)

> And Jung does not equate the term feeling with values.


Jung doesn't equate the term feeling with emotion either, but......some will always believe that Fi stands for introverted emotions/feelings...not. If you answered values, you answered correctly .


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## Enfpleasantly (Mar 5, 2012)

Value=Belief
Emotion=Feelings

In an F dom or aux, their beliefs drive them...they "believe" something; that's different than feeling like you're going to cry, or feeling like you're going to kick a kitten. In tert or inferior positions, it can cause outbursts of emotion.

Thinking can also cause beliefs, yes...but they come to their beliefs differently than F types. Spades views on humanity and people seem to be Fi because of Ne to me. No, I can't explain why I see that.


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## MuChApArAdOx (Jan 24, 2011)

Enfpleasantly said:


> Value=Belief
> Emotion=Feelings
> 
> In an F dom or aux, their beliefs drive them...they "believe" something; that's different than feeling like you're going to cry, or feeling like you're going to kick a kitten. In tert or inferior positions, it can cause outbursts of emotion.
> ...


When i make a value judgement, there isn't any emotion attached with that. I say to myself, this is what i believe to be true for me personally , so therefore the judgement i make for or against something is in alignment/or not with with my beliefs. Like this posting for example, i agree, it meshes with what i believe is true. I don't have any emotions of feelings about it, i just know that there is clear boundary with what you said, and how i perceived it. No, i'm not happy, sad, angry, excited, i don't feel anything but in agreement


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## Obsidian (Aug 10, 2011)

Enfpleasantly said:


> Thinking can also cause beliefs, yes...but they come to their beliefs differently than F types.


Then you should clarify that, and not use the word "values" to refer to F or Fi. "Emotion" is a lot closer to F than "values" is.

Jung talks about F as an organizational or value system centered around harmony or beauty. But he definitely associates it with emotion as well, and says that for Fi users, their emotions are "still waters" that "run deep." That means they hide their emotions, but their emotions are strong.



> Spades views on humanity and people seem to be Fi because of Ne to me.


I agree with the Fi part. From the videos I've seen, she strikes me as almost a textbook INTJ.



MuchaParadox said:


> When i make a value judgement, there isn't any emotion attached with that.


Your statement is very general, but in those situations which you describe, maybe you are not using F.


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## MuChApArAdOx (Jan 24, 2011)

> Then you should clarify that, and not use the word "values" to refer to F or Fi. "Emotion" is a lot closer to F than "values" is .


Not to argue with you , but no, Fi is not closer to emotion than values. Fi is values, our inner value system. Fi is a sorting and filtering process we use to make our valued judgements. We don't base those on emotions or feelings, we base those judgements on if we value this/that/ and the other thing personally for us.


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## Enfpleasantly (Mar 5, 2012)

Obsidian said:


> Then you should clarify that, and not use the word "values" to refer to F or Fi. "Emotion" is a lot closer to F than "values" is.
> 
> Jung talks about F as an organizational or value system centered around harmony or beauty. But he definitely associates it with emotion as well, and says that for Fi users, their emotions are "still waters" that "run deep." That means they hide their emotions, but their emotions are strong.


Why should I clarify that? Values are beliefs are they not? I don't just follow Jung; I actually quite enjoy the book I quoted in my post that stated "values" in terms of Dom Fi users. If you feel I'm saying you have no values, then those are YOUR feelings, not my beliefs. 

Again, feeling is "values" in Dom and aux position, "emotions" in tert and inferior position. So, Fi is not emotion to me at all. When I said emotion=feelings, I did not mean feeling...as in the function. I meant feelings as in "my feelings are hurt". Come on, you knew that...don't start twisting on me 



> I agree with the Fi part. From the videos I've seen, she strikes me as almost a textbook INTJ.


And how do you know she was acting completely natural in the video? Also, people can be different, but she seems nothing like any INTJ I know personally.


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## Obsidian (Aug 10, 2011)

Enfpleasantly said:


> If you feel I'm saying you have no values, then those are YOUR feelings, not my beliefs.


No, you're not saying that, because earlier you already admitted I am right -- that Thinking is also values. The difference between you and me seems to be that I am striving for accurate descriptions (Ti), whereas you are just going with terminology that you like (Fi).



> And how do you know she was acting completely natural in the video? Also, people can be different, but she seems nothing like any INTJ I know personally.


She acts a pretty good bit like this girl, except less nerdy and annoying:


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## Spades (Aug 31, 2011)

How exciting! I love when I turn topics into debates! This happens on my facebook statuses all the time =D

Obsidian, I agree entirely, *values and logic are not mutually exclusive*, but Fe and Te are, and Fi and Ti are (in any given situation). Furthermore, the way one acts can indicate a particular preference for *that given decision*.

For example, suppose that one is a Te user working in an environment that looks down upon casual clothing. If they *value* personal expression above *standard* procedure, their Fi might lead them to wear casual clothing anyway. This would be an instance of acting on Fi as opposed to Te. If one does this consistently enough, they would be considered an Fi dom/aux, not a Te dom/aux.


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## Obsidian (Aug 10, 2011)

@Spades

As I've acknowledged in the past few posts, I am not going to say that feeling and emotions are exactly the same. But they are definitely correlated.

Regarding my comment which spurred this tangent, I stated that I look for feeling in videos and use that to calculate E versus I. That means if I see some zany girl who seems to exhibit a ton of feeling, I would predict INFP over ENFP. Same with if I see some mellow, intellectual thinker who appears more human and less robotic and severe, I would predict INTJ over ENTJ.


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## Enfpleasantly (Mar 5, 2012)

Obsidian said:


> No, you're not saying that, because earlier you already admitted I am right -- that Thinking is also values. The difference between you and me seems to be that I am striving for accurate descriptions (Ti), whereas you are just going with terminology that you like (Fi).
> 
> 
> 
> She acts a pretty good bit like this girl, except less nerdy and annoying:


Actually you are quite wrong(about the feeling function)...Fi is my aux function, and emotions are not causing my beliefs on Fi. Read up on what Fe does to you in its grip. That is not the way Fe doms live their lives. Their dominant Fe affects them differently than Fe affects you. It's not hard to understand, especially if you read up on it.


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## Obsidian (Aug 10, 2011)

@Enfpleasantly, actually it would probably be Te through which you were compiling definitions, not Fi. And you very well might not realize how emotion was effecting Te.


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## intrasearching (Jul 15, 2011)

I'll be another person claiming they spotted Ni and Fe in there.



Spades said:


> Absolute bliss and freedom, typically from a mystical or euphoric state. Sometimes this is in deep meditation when I'm alone, sometimes this is in an altered state in an environment where I'm with people I deeply love and respect. Feeling at one with everything, experiencing a rush of insight, becoming more in touch with what underlies existence. Connecting with other beings and truly understanding one another.


This screams Ni Fe to me.


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## Blocklos (Feb 22, 2011)

Obsidian said:


> Regarding my comment which spurred this tangent, I stated that I look for feeling in videos and use that to calculate E versus I. That means if I see some zany girl who seems to exhibit a ton of feeling, I would predict INFP over ENFP. Same with if I see some mellow, intellectual thinker who appears more human and less robotic and severe, I would predict INTJ over ENTJ.


Extroversion vs. Introversion has everything to do with where you get your energy and nothing to do with how expressive you are. 

INTJs are not more intellectual that anyone else. It seems your observational criteria are based on external stereotypes and not the actual functions. 

If the girl in that video is an INTJ, I struggle to see it.


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## Spades (Aug 31, 2011)

Oh, are we doing the whole type by video thing? Very well.

I propose the *wild idea* that humans have a wide range of expression and personality, impossible to determine from a few videos.

Here is the one you were probably referring to:






Here is one that's fairly consistent with the above:

[video=facebook;1598938227552]https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=1598938227552[/video]

Here is a silly one:






And here we go:

[video=facebook;2149594633618]https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=2149594633618[/video]

Lastly, the fairy one (3:10 - 3:40) and (5:50 - 6:20):







Sooo, what, I have 5 MBTI personalities now? *rolls eyes*

*INFORMATION PROCESSING ≠ BEHAVIOUR*


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## Enfpleasantly (Mar 5, 2012)

Obsidian said:


> @_Enfpleasantly_ , actually it would probably be Te through which you were compiling definitions, not Fi. And you very well might not realize how emotion was effecting Te.


No, actually I'm referring to my conclusion on Fi...my conclusion on Fi is first presented by all of the possibilities by my Ne, consulting Te, and then Fi makes the judgment and decides what to believe.


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## Obsidian (Aug 10, 2011)

Spades said:


> Sooo, what, I have 5 MBTI personalities now? *rolls eyes*


No, I maintain the same INTJ diagnosis. I don't even think you seem particularly different in the latter videos, except that you are no longer discussing the silly Ni philosophical stuff like in the first one.



> I propose the *wild idea* that humans have a wide range of expression and personality, impossible to determine from a few videos.


Heh. I don't know what it is with you INTJs, but it seems like you're always saying dumb stuff like that. The girl I posted above is always whining about stereotypes, too.


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## Blocklos (Feb 22, 2011)

Spades said:


> Sooo, what, I have 5 MBTI personalities now? *rolls eyes*
> 
> *INFORMATION PROCESSING ≠ BEHAVIOUR*


Information processing certainly contributes to behavior. You behave according to the way you process. Behavior and mannerisms can be rather telling as a whole picture. If you look at a behavior as an activity void of motivation, implication, and consequence, then I can see why you would find them separate from cognitive processes.


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## Spades (Aug 31, 2011)

Blocklos said:


> Information processing certainly contributes to behavior. You behave according to the way you process. Behavior and mannerisms can be rather telling as a whole picture. If you look at a behavior as an activity void of *motivation, implication, and consequence*, then I can see why you would find them separate from cognitive processes.


That's what the Enneagram is for 


Anyway, I am going out of town so any further questions will be addressed tomorrow.


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## n2freedom (Jun 2, 2011)

Thanks for the invitation. But, if I were going to contribute....I wouldn't be able to do it based on answers to the questionnaire. However, based on my interactions with you on the forum..I personally don't see Te dom but a good usage of Te.


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## PlushWitch (Oct 28, 2010)

You definitely have an extroverted Enneagram type. So for most people it's hard to see through this anyway... there should be some kind of filter....

But I don't think your videos are that telling about your cognitive functions (didn't find you in the third one cause I didn't bother to watch the whole thing. ;D). I always find it important to see how the eyes move while you're thinking. And even in the first video, I think there was too much preparation and deliberate training of certain communications so that there isn't much of a natural eye movement. I still liked that one video the best... hm...and you didn't like yourself in it, afaik...(?) maybe you know which one I mean cause I referred to it once before. :laughing:


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## saffron (Jan 30, 2011)

Flatlander said:


> I'm not making any claims on Feeling and intelligence. I know already that it doesn't work that way.
> 
> I don't think that interest in themes has to define. Cognitive function is all about processing, right? It's about what kind of processing is done most. I'm looking for specifically the processing here that is Ne - I saw a few possibilities, but I saw far too much Ni and Te as a running theme when I read this over to consider Ne/Fi probable.
> 
> I was kind of looking for analysis. I could offer mine, though I did already more privately and it seems redundant.


Interest in themes helps determine cognitive processing. A person talks about the information they are gleaning from the world at large and what they find useful or valuable and how or why. I gave some analysis already, but in watching the first of the videos I can add to that. 

The two main themes that are repeated throughout the video are first of all, being open to and exited about new ideas, constantly changing opinions as new information becomes available, expanding etc... Ne and Ni have some overlap and most people that use one heavily also use the other quite well, but Ni tends more to conclude rather than be open ended like Ne. It wants to settle on something. A Ne user will settle on most likely, but in a more "subject to change, want more information" sort of way. I see her as getting the biggest rise out of the external world of possibilities with variables etc... though she is pretty balanced.

Secondly, in the video, I see Fi all over the place starting with her "subjective" views and statements like "I don't feel the need to" and "As long as they're not stepping on my beliefs" and "free to believe what they want." 

And again, intelligent ENFPs can come across as Te doms or at least strong Te users because they use the function most likely to get their point across and Te is often the most direct mode. 

She's also a meditator and practices some mindfulness, so that does change your brain in my opinion. I think it's giving a stronger sense of Se for sure and maybe Ni as well. But I suppose it could go in the reverse. I don't think she's a sensor though.


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## Obsidian (Aug 10, 2011)

@saffron, I think you are confusing philosophy with cognitive function. A judger can have a philosophy of being openminded, even though his cognitive functions might tend to make him somewhat close-minded. A judger with that philosophy would just need to exert some additional energy to remain open.


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## saffron (Jan 30, 2011)

Obsidian said:


> @saffron, I think you are confusing philosophy with cognitive function. A judger can have a philosophy of being openminded, even though his cognitive functions might tend to make him somewhat close-minded. A judger with that philosophy would just need to exert some additional energy to remain open.


No. I'm not. And sure they can. Please give one example of how you evidence any of her cognitive functions in an indisputable way.


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## Obsidian (Aug 10, 2011)

@saffron

That's a ridiculous request. Nothing about MBTI is "indisputable."


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## saffron (Jan 30, 2011)

Obsidian said:


> @saffron
> 
> That's a ridiculous request. Nothing about MBTI is "indisputable."


Exactly. Add something of substance in terms of your perspective of the functions at work. And try not to stereotype. You're focusing too much on your perspective and identifying it as truth without the same standard that you apply to everyone else in the way of proof. Make a strong case. I'll watch for it.


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## Spades (Aug 31, 2011)

Enfpleasantly said:


> Spades, you know yourself better than anyone. That said, I think your description of perception and intuition sounds more like Ne than Ni


I actually forgot *entirely* to talk about Ni vs Ne. Deeper Part 2? *Looks outside at beautiful day, craves to go prancing around*. Part 2 might have to wait.


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## Enfpleasantly (Mar 5, 2012)

This part right here sounds completely Ne to me...



> I achieve "success" in my life through changing my perception.* Perception is reality, so why be limited to one perspective? I play around with ideas as if they were true, exploring the projected consequences of being attached to any particular one for too long. *I do this to such an extent that I often lose touch with what the "commonly accepted" theory or view is, and I really don't care what other people think it is. I see what works and what doesn't work for *me. *


I believe it was @_hoom_ who gave a fantastic description of Ne and based it on a tree seeing all of the possibilities and directions, along with the foreseen outcomes of each. I think it was him, but I could be wrong.

Edit: Yes, it was Hoom...


> Uhm... I suppose to add onto what's been said already. For starters, I'm not an Ne user, so everything I have to say is from the perspective of an observer who has correlated his findings with articles and other people's observations. I also find that it is incredibly difficult to define a function you don't have.
> 
> That said, as I understand it, Ne is a function of permutations and possibility (and even sometimes impossibility). An Ne user will take a scenario or event that they're taking part in and look at all of the possible permutations of the decisions along the way to an outcome.
> 
> ...


Here's the thread in case you wanted to read it: http://personalitycafe.com/enfp-forum-inspirers/93617-extraverted-intuition.html


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## Ayia (Feb 27, 2012)

INFJ or ISFP

I'm leaning towards ISFP as I see much of Se in your answers. but yet you seem like a J. 

Oh well...


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## Spades (Aug 31, 2011)

*Deeper Part 2*

Part 1

I'm not trying to prove anything here, this is mostly for personal reflection.

I've always had a unique perception. I know *everyone* does, but it got to the point where I couldn't relate to anyone by the time I was 11. My parents and family friends seemed too set in the belief that because they are older, they understand the world better than I do. Even if that were the case, they always missed perspectives, particularly *my* perspectives, which I couldn't articulate.

I fell into a 6 year depression because I felt so isolated and different from everyone around me. To be blatantly honest, I thought everyone was stupid. I saw the patterns people fell into and wondered, why don't they _see_? I was extremely narcissistic (not proud of this now), but it was really as a result of my inability to express myself and my misunderstanding of _others_.

I kept my insights and values deep inside, being guarded to the point of biting anyone's hand off if they tried to ask. Nothing I thought could be properly expressed in words. I dreamed of telepathically letting people know, and even then, I feared they would think I'm insane (not that people didn't already suspect). It's been an unbelievable journey of "opening up", one which is *far* from over.

On multiple intelligence tests, I score highest in logical/mathematical and int*ra*personal, usually, and lowest on linguistic and int*er*personal. This seems quite contrary to a typical ENFP I suspect. Regardless, I've tried hard to develop those skills for myself, and I've made a lot of progress.

The way I see the world is almost "magical". Everything I observe *means* something to me, and everything has another infinite amount of interpretations. I enjoy being able to see different ones, and hence experimenting with different perceptual states. The most mundane can become the most interesting, if looked at in a certain way.


Okay, Part 3 later, and I'll close this thread soon after.


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## Ayia (Feb 27, 2012)

you're not an ENFP. 

I see Fi, and I also see intuition. but your previous parts showed a lot of se.


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## PlushWitch (Oct 28, 2010)

Runa said:


> but your previous parts showed a lot of se.


Which could also be due to Etype 7w6.:ninja::mellow::laughing:


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## Enfpleasantly (Mar 5, 2012)

@Spades you mentioned that you felt misunderstood as a child. Did you also feel misunderstood by your Parents, or do you mean just peers?


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## Spades (Aug 31, 2011)

Enfpleasantly said:


> @_Spades_ you mentioned that you felt misunderstood as a child. Did you also feel misunderstood by your Parents, or do you mean just peers?


Everyone. And not just as a child, but I still do (although now I have found friends as eccentric as I am at least). It probably ties into Ennea 4 fix, don't think it has to do with JCF.


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## Enfpleasantly (Mar 5, 2012)

Spades said:


> Everyone. And not just as a child, but I still do (although now I have found friends as eccentric as I am at least). It probably ties into Ennea 4 fix, don't think it has to do with JCF.


Do you know the types of the people around you whom you tend to relate to or enjoy the most in your life?

Do you know your Parents types? I think one or both is NT, right?


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## Spades (Aug 31, 2011)

Neurasthenia said:


> I often suspect as much but part of me is still trying to hold on desperately to the theory. Without it, nothing makes sense anymore... D':


LMAO, you Ti users.



Neurasthenia said:


> Anyway, I will venture a couple guesses out of curiosity for your impending thoughts.
> 
> ENFP
> ENTP
> ...


Alright, well I already contacted you about this but I'll let everyone else know: Those were the *exact four* I was considering. Excellent prediction. It's even the 4 I asked for MBTI career profiles when I did the official MBTI. The one that fit me the most ridiculously well was *ENTP*. The ENFP careers and work environment sounded outright repulsive. INTJ sounded better than ENTJ, but ENTP was freakishly good. Too bad these aren't online anywhere so I could check the others or show anyone.


If I am an ENFP, here is what *must* be true:

~ My freakishly large Ni is as a result of life experience.
~ I am a Te subtype, where Te suppresses Fi a lot of the time.
~ I am more persistent and future-directed than most people I know.
~ I am not a "people person", I'm an idea and experience person that sometimes uses people to get there.
~ My MBTI is different than my JCF result.

If so, that's cool. The issue I have is I *still* don't buy into the pre-set function ordering. So a label I will not put up, but it's cool to know I exhausted the system (and everyone else XD) heheh.


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## Finaille (Aug 8, 2010)

@Spades-

I also don't agree with the pre-set functioning.

Maybe we (and others who don't agree along with us) could set up a larger system that has more personality types... one that both measures the order of all 8 functions AND does not require a specific order of measure. I mean, my function test indicates that all of my Thinking and Sensing values are my bottom four... with MBTI that would be impossible, but is it really? Could you be both a Ne and a Ni user, with Fi and Te in your top four? 

I'd be curious to find another individual who posts frequently here that has a similar tested function order to yours. See if you have more similarity with that person and all!


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## Spades (Aug 31, 2011)

Enfpleasantly said:


> Do you know the types of the people around you whom you tend to relate to or enjoy the most in your life?
> 
> Do you know your Parents types? I think one or both is NT, right?


Speaking of persistence, I admire _yours_.

I do know the types of some of my friends, but there's no definite trend. The only underlying common theme is *open-mindedness*. That's really the only main main main factor. If I absolutely must admit to a slightly more common occurrence, I'd say NT's, given that they are supposedly so rare, yet I attract them.

Mom's a textbook ISTJ. Dad's possibly an ENTJ. Never had an issue with them as people, I just never opened up to them, out of pride or _something._

Forgot to mention, my biggest outward fear (not internal, but having to do with others), is showing weakness or incompetence. I think that's the main block from speaking my absurd views freely, having to confide in a trusted few. One of my biggest pet peeves is being asked "Do you need help?" or "Are you okay?" Irrational, I know, but it's an old pattern that runs deep, and I've been trying to remove it.


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## Spades (Aug 31, 2011)

Finaille said:


> @_Spades_-
> 
> I also don't agree with the pre-set functioning.
> 
> Maybe we (and others who don't agree along with us) could set up a larger system that has more personality types... one that both measures the order of all 8 functions AND does not require a specific order of measure. I mean, my function test indicates that all of my Thinking and Sensing values are my bottom four... with MBTI that would be impossible, but is it really? Could you be both a Ne and a Ni user, with Fi and Te in your top four?


Yes! I came up with one myself, sort of Jung-ish. You take your Xi and Xe functions and add them up to get a score for X. So for example, Fi + Fe = F. Then you put the 4 functions in order. Mine becomes *NTFS*. @_Flatlander_ as well =P I like this system better 



Finaille said:


> I'd be curious to find another individual who posts frequently here that has a similar tested function order to yours. See if you have more similarity with that person and all!


No one I can think of! For some reason it's not that common to have Ni, Te, Ne, and Fi concurrently. Go figure, we're all *individuals*?! *gasp* =P


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## Finaille (Aug 8, 2010)

Spades said:


> Yes! I came up with one myself, sort of Jung-ish. You take your Xi and Xe functions and add them up to get a score for X. So for example, Fi + Fe = F. Then you put the 4 functions in order. Mine becomes *NTFS*. @_Flatlander_ as well =P I like this system better


Woah...  **confused*
*




Spades said:


> No one I can think of! For some reason it's not that common to have Ni, Te, Ne, and Fi concurrently. Go figure, we're all *individuals*?! *gasp* =P


Very true... once you factor in all 8 preferences, Enneagram with wings and tri-type, and then other personality theory types... well hey, there is individuality for ya! Nobody is exactly the same


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## Enfpleasantly (Mar 5, 2012)

Haha, you admire my persistence? Hmm, are you not exhibiting a similar level of persistence when it comes to your type search? 

There are some things that bring out my persistence and one of them is when I *know* something, and I *know* I see heavy Ne usage from you. I don't know if you are ENFP, ENTP, or even INTP, but I know I see Ne.

Edit: My function order is: Ne, Ni (almost equal), Ti, Te/Fi (equal), Si, Fe, Se.
Both of my parents are ENTJ. I believe that being raised in that environment shaped my development (of my inferior functions, I personally believe we are born with our dominant functions).


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## Blocklos (Feb 22, 2011)

That cognitive functions test is crap. There is such a thing as a bad test, as in it doesn't fairly assess anything. That cognitive functions test is misleading, it doesn't have enough questions, and the questions are ambiguous. It could never be standardized. 

Not to step on any toes, but I have seen no Ni in you. When you said you have ridiculously high Ni, I was shocked. Every time I have heard you describe Ni, it only sounded like Ne to me. "Infinite possibilities" is not Ni. "All perspectives" is not Ni. Deeply caring if other people agree with you, is not Ni.


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## Spades (Aug 31, 2011)

Blocklos said:


> Deeply caring if other people agree with you, is not Ni.


Whoa, where in the world did I say that?

Furthermore, I never described Ni anywhere. What, in your opinion, would Ni "look like" in this context?


I meant to say this earlier but forgot: if one looks stubbornly enough for anything, one will find it. Typology has a huge self-fulfilling prophesy component. Different people can see different Functions in a statement or action, depending on how they look at it, and what they're looking for.

I agree with @_JungyesMBTIno_, there are different paths to come to the same conclusion. The conclusion is not an indication of the path taken.


Edit: Speaking of tests, I think timeless' does an even poorer job:

Your Cognitive Functions:
Introverted Intuition (Ni) ||||||||||||||||||||||| 10.925
Extroverted Intuition (Ne) ||||||||||||||||||||| 9.88
Extroverted Thinking (Te) |||||||||||||||||| 8.08
Introverted Thinking (Ti) |||||||||||| 5.07
Introverted Sensation (Si) ||||||| 2.77
Extroverted Sensation (Se) ||||||| 2.57
Extroverted Feeling (Fe) || -0.62
Introverted Feeling (Fi) || -1.06


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## Angelic Gardevoir (Oct 7, 2010)

Spades said:


> Edit: Also, I'm apparently male.


Nah, you're probably just a tomboy. The world needs more tomboys. 



Spades said:


> Lastly, the fairy one (3:10 - 3:40) and (5:50 - 6:20):


For some reason, I was expecting you to be running around saying "Whee! I'm a fairy! Whee!" :laughing: ...But that's not what happened. I am disappoint. :tongue:

Anyway, I didn't watch much of those videos, but concerning the silly parts, it didn't seem completely natural. When you act extroverted, it seems a little awkward...a bit like me, actually. I have a silly streak (or rather, I've developed one over the years), but it takes some effort. I'm going with you being a silly introvert. Yet take my words with a grain of salt. :wink:


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## Spades (Aug 31, 2011)

Angelic Gardevoir said:


> Nah, you're probably just a tomboy. The world needs more tomboys.


Tomboy my whole life! Most of my friends are male, too. My mom was rather disappointed she couldn't have a "girly girl" so she treated my brother like one instead =P


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## Blocklos (Feb 22, 2011)

Spades said:


> they always missed perspectives, particularly *my* perspectives, which I couldn't articulate.
> 
> I fell into a 6 year depression because I felt so isolated and different from everyone around me. To be blatantly honest, I thought everyone was stupid. I saw the patterns people fell into and wondered, why don't they _see_? I was extremely narcissistic (not proud of this now), but it was really as a result of my inability to express myself and my misunderstanding of _others_.
> 
> I kept my insights and values deep inside, being guarded to the point of biting anyone's hand off if they tried to ask. Nothing I thought could be properly expressed in words. I dreamed of telepathically letting people know, and even then, I feared they would think I'm insane (not that people didn't already suspect). It's been an unbelievable journey of "opening up", one which is *far* from over.


Seems like you care whether people agree with you, does it not?

The other problem is that every time someone nails you down with an observation and point that disagrees with your forgone conclusions, you obfuscate their assertions by going off on a tangent about how none of these theories are sufficient descriptors of you. It seems increasingly like you aren't interested in real answers, only those that support your vision.


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## SilentScream (Mar 31, 2011)

Spades said:


> Hats off to you, @_Jawz_. Thank you.
> 
> 
> Now if I discuss my excellent resource management ability and strong affinity for logical puzzles and programming, surely I'm just trying to get people to tell me I use certain functions. *Rolls eyes* This thread will close at midnight. It's been a pleasure. I thoroughly enjoyed the discussion, even the parts that made my blood boil =)
> ...


Hows this for more JCF confusions

Fe=Stereotypical description of Enneagram Type 2
Te=Stereotypical description of Enneagram Type 1, 3 and 8
I read the inferior Ti description and it was also extremely similar to the Type 2 unhealthy levels. 

Enneagrams were "discovered" long after MBTI and JCF ... maybe Enneagram is the stronger theory of the 3 after all because I've also started noticing just how much over-lapping there is within all 3 systems --- with MBTI being the absolute worst. 

I know a lot of people want to study the 4 theories in isolation from each other ---- in all honesty, someone who really wants to benefit from personality psych ought to study more and more theories and not just limit themselves to even these 4. There's several theories around conditioning, development, nature vs nurture ---- There's just far too much focus on Type forums around nature and everyone seems to forget that the minute they landed on earth, they started _learning _​to be more than just primal instinctive beasts.

I honestly believe that if someone out there is acting like a stereotypical version of their type's archetype, they're actually harming themselves.


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## Spades (Aug 31, 2011)

Thank you *everyone* who participated and provided input!

Here's a rainbow cake for all to share! ^_^










May your own self discovery not be limited by the lens of typology.


 @_Stephen_, please close this thread now.


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## LiquidLight (Oct 14, 2011)

Spades said:


> *I think it's time to go a bit deeper.*
> 
> I don't do this with online forums, but I'm somewhat comfortable enough with PerC to at least attempt.
> 
> ...


Honestly and this is just intuition speaking so I might be way off base, but so much of this just _feels_ like Extraversion to me. Especially the little rant about how people need to learn to be more in touch with themselves. It's almost as if during the course of life you have discovered you. I might be wrong, but that kind of epiphany of self (and moreover its impact) strikes me more of extraversion than introverts, because Introverts are always, by nature self-oriented. As an introvert, personally, I've never really had any issue with needing to know myself in that way. I've always been more geared toward trying to figure out the outside world, because for me that's the challenge, not the inner world. I get the sense that you had devoted your life to something (whatever it was) other than you and what was going on with you, and when you found yourself everything shifted. This is sort of a classic Extravert testimony (and why so many extraverts mistype as introverts). 



> *I: I test I mostly because I really love spending time alone. I value my autonomy to a very high extent. I like to be self-sufficient and independent, and I especially like to run on my own agenda and follow my own plans. Even when I'm in a relationship, it feels overwhelming to see the person more than a couple times a week, as I lose my sense of agency. That being said, I'm inclined to think I'm an extrovert, due to the understanding that they are more energetic, engaging, and initiative.*


See to me this doesn't point toward introversion (at least not dominant) so much as Introverted Feeling preference. There's definitely a self-reliance here and sort of a sense of not wanting to give over your inner world to the outer world easily. Almost like you have an introverted core that drives you and centers you. But what I don't get is the over-reliance on this as primary way of living for you, in the way a Fi-dom would. Introversion is honestly, in some ways a form of narcissism, or extreme self-interest (Freud literally called it a form of narcissism) because everything occurs through the lens of the self. With introversion its ALWAYS me first (whether or not the person realizes it). My thoughts, my values, my intuitions, my own perceptions. Introversion always plays down the outer world in favor of the subjective. To the introvert, the outside world can be, in the extreme downright terrifying where to the extravert its often the opposite. (For example I have a Ne-dom friend who won't eat meat because he is convinced that the meat has some sort of food borne illness that will do him in if he eats it -- this is sort of classic inferior Introverted Sensation, but note the fear comes from within, that he would be devoured from within. My own Ne-dom father never goes to the doctor's office, again terrified that they doctor might have bad news, but becomes a baby when he gets sick. Von Franz talks about Fe-doms whose negative thinking is often turned inward where they think more negatively about themselves than the outside world, or the Te-dom who downplays the ideals of the self in favor of some objective mission).



> I have often been impressed by the fact that extraverts, when they come to their other side, have a much purer relationship to the inner world than the introvert. I have even been quite jealous! I have seen what a naive and genuine and pure relationship they have to inner facts, for they can have a vision adn take it completely seriously at once, quite naively! In an introvert, it is always distorted by his extraverted shadow, which throws doubts on it. Thus it can be said that if an extravert falls into his introversion, it will be specially genuine and specially pure and deep. That is why usually extraverts are so proud of this that they boast loudly that they are great introverts. They try to make it into a feather in their cap -- which again is again typically extraverted -- and thereby ruin the whole thing! But actually, if they do not spoil everything with vanity, extraverts can have a much more childlike, naive, pure, and really genuine introversion than introverts. Introverts, for their part, if they wake up to their inferior extraversion, can spread a glow of life and make their surroundings into a symbolic festival better than any extravert! An introvert can give outer life a depth of symbolic meaning and the feeling of life as a magical feast of some kind, which the extravert cannot. If an extravert goes to a party, he thinks that everyone is marvelous and is ready to say, "Come on lets get this party started!" But that is simply a technique, and the part never really reaches magical depth, or does so very rarely; it remains on the level of amiable surface. But if an introvert can come out with his extraversion in the right way he can create an atmosphere where outside things become symbolic: drinking a glass of wine with a friend becomes something like a communion and so on. With the introvert it is linked with the outer, just as with the extravert it is really within, if he breaks through the other side.
> 
> Jung once told of a child who would not enter a room before it had been told the names of the pieces of furniture in the room -- table, chair, and so on -- after which it would move toward an object in the room. That is typical of a definitely introverted attitude, in which the object is terrifying and has to be banished or put in its place by a word: a propitiating gesture by which the object is made known and cannot misbehave, for a table must remain a table, so that you can walk toward it. In such little details, if one knows how to look for them, one can observe the tendency toward introversion or extraversion even in a very small child.


These quotes from Von Franz are what jumped to mind when I read your writing and basically why I see you as Extraverted Intuitive-Feeling type. I think the thing about you seeing emotion as weakness relates much more to a persona (likely why you always test as T), but you seem to be very Fi-oriented, especially in the quote I mentioned above. And again I think an extravert would probably have the tendency to downplay their Fi in favor of a more comfortable extraverted disposition (Te in your case).


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## Herp (Nov 25, 2010)

Wait, is the thread over?

I had a question - if it still make sense to ask it now - How often do you leave your comfort zone?


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## Enfpleasantly (Mar 5, 2012)

Best article on the development and individual functions of ENFP I've ever read...http://personalitycafe.com/enfp-articles/91932-phases-enfp-growth.html

The Ne description is spot on for how you posted this thread to bounce possibilities off of others.

*



ENFPs’ Dominant Function: Extraverted Intuition (Ne)

Extraverted Intuition (Ne) is ENFPs’ dominant function. It can function either perceptively or expressively. The verbal expression of Ne amounts to something like “thinking out loud.” When orating, ENFPs may not always seem to “have a point” as they randomly move from one idea to the next. Often times, the “point” is for the ENFP to find their way to a judgment (Fi), but this first requires them to explore multiple options by way of their Ne. While others may not trust the seemingly arbitrary and haphazard ways of Ne, ENFPs realize its value. They know that, in time, that truth or wisdom will reveal itself. Their only job is to talk, write, or otherwise express their Ne, trusting that it will lead them in the right direction.

This helps us recognize a primary difference between ENP and INJ types. While both are dominant Intuitives, INJs have a stronger sense that they know something upfront. There is a certain confidence associated with their Introverted Intuition (Ni), which only increases when their Ni is expressed outwardly through their Judging function (Te or Fe). By that point, the point of extraversion, the INJ almost sounds certain in his or her pronouncements.

ENPs, by contrast, while sometimes having a initial hunch, do not experience the same sense of confidence prior to expression. When operating in Ne mode, they are often searching for answers as they go along; they are extraverting what INJs’ Ni does inwardly. This is why ENPs are classified as Perceivers. They tend to extravert their Perceiving function (Ne) more than their Judging function (Te).

Granted, some ENPs are much more cogent and streamlined in their expressions than others. But much of it depends on the context of the conversation. In some instances, ENFPs call on their tertiary function, Extraverted Thinking (Te), which is not at all random, but direct and to the point.

In addition to its expressive role, Ne can also function receptively. ENFPs enjoy asking questions that allow them to gather information from other people. This makes them good facilitators of conversation, using their Ne to read people and generate probing questions that make for interesting dialogue. ENFPs often hone and apply this talent in careers such as journalism, counseling, and psychology.

In contrast to Extraverted Sensing (Se), Ne does not focus on overt information. Se is more straightforward, involving a direct apprehension of information through one or more of the senses. Ne is different in that it goes beyond or looks behind sense data. This allows ENFPs to discern otherwise hidden patterns, possibilities, and potentials. By way of their Ne, ENFPs make connections that other types readily miss.

Ne also confers an open-mindedness. It helps ENFPs see truth on both sides of an issue without forming unwarranted judgments or premature conclusions.

ENFPs also use their Ne to sniff out intriguing possibilities. They commonly enjoy and assume the role of wanderer or seeker. Rarely do they know in advance exactly what they are seeking, which is partly why they find operating in Ne mode so exhilarating. Ne involves a sense of blind anticipation and expectation, of not knowing who or what will manifest next in their life journey.

For instance, if functioning in Ne mode, ENFPs might spontaneously embark on a walk in unfamiliar city, anticipating a pleasurable sense of adventure, uncertainty, and expectancy. They might even experience a sense of romance, perhaps imagining a serendipitous encounter with a future soulmate in a quaint coffee shop or used book store. ENFP artists and writers may experience a similar sense of expectancy as they enter into the creative process, the excitement of not knowing exactly what will be revealed as become immersed in their work. Hence, Ne has a certain mystical flavor, involving an openness or curiosity toward what God or the universe might have in store.

While having the potential to bring much good and happiness to ENFPs, Ne also has its challenges. For one, their Ne can make it difficult for ENFPs to arrive at firm conclusions or make important decisions. It often seems that at the very moment ENFPs are feeling good about a given conclusion or decision, their Ne steps in and causes them to start doubting it again. This has obvious implications for ENFPs’ ability to stay on task and finish what they start. It can also cause them to feel discouraged and restless, worried that they may never find a place of rest and contentment.

Click to expand...

*


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## Enfpleasantly (Mar 5, 2012)

By the way spades, I can't speak for everyone, but I don't feel limited by the lens of typology whatsoever. I feel empowered by it. I finally have a deep understanding for who I am, and while my JCF's don't match with my MBTI in tests, I accept that I can indeed be identified by a dominant cognitive function, a personality type, an enneagram type and tritype, a gender type, a sexuality type, a culture type, a species type, and still be individual me. It feels fantastic


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## saffron (Jan 30, 2011)

Well, it's almost midnight. I do still think you're a likely ENFP, but whatever type you see yourself as, it's been nice getting to know you better.


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## Spades (Aug 31, 2011)

Why won't this thread go away? I tried to close it an hour ago =P @_Promethea_, @_Scruffy_, @_timeless_, can someone close this please?

Although it would be awesome if it reached 20 pages and 50 votes 

@_Herp_, I think the answer to your question is more Enneagram-related. I consciously try to push the boundaries and expand my comfort zone, as being stuck in it is at the expense of my personal freedom.


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