# 2003-2010 VS 2010-2017 - in which period did culture change more?



## RJDG14 (Feb 19, 2017)

*Dic should be did in the poll; a typo error, sorry

I'm possibly gonna say 2010-2017 but this is mostly from a British perspective, and from my perspective.

I've seen leaflets from c.2003, leaflets from 2010 and leaflets from now. On average, things such as the stylisation and typeface have changed more between 2010 and now, even though there's been the same period of time since. A lot of leaflets from 2003, while often different to their counterparts from 1996, don't look that different to 2010 in my opinion.

Clothing has become noticeably slimmer and more muted looking in the last 4-5 years, at least in the UK. The "selfie culture" has taken off; use of filters on photos seems to have become the norm, music has become pretty drippy sounding across most genres, and preferred fonts have gone from Arial/Times New Roman/Verdana to Calibri and the Snapchat/Android/iOS fonts, none of which existed until the mid 2000s at the earliest. I call this the "(i)mobilisation" of culture, since everything's becoming more streamlined while more generic at the same time. I've been clothes shopping trying to look for some loosish stonewashed jeans and loose t-shirts that aren't a muted burgundy/brown/green colour and have great trouble finding anything, when 10 years ago this would have likely been very easy. Graphics have also been becoming noticeably flatter, with Apple, Microsoft, Google, Instagram and countless other organisations and services removing textures or gradients from their logos or other graphics.

Another thing I found was that the British political party campaigns in this year's snap general election felt different to the campaigns in 2005, 2010 and 2015. *BOLD SKINNY CAPITAL LETTERS* seem to have been the primary font used by virtually all parties (as with most other stuff, since 90% of stuff from any particular era follows the culture of that era), the attitudes of the parties seem quite different to 5 years ago, and as with a lot of stuff, the whole thing felt more rushed than normal, even with it being a snap election with only two months notice.

So, which would you say? It kinda feels to me like we're now moving away from late 90s/00s culture, which lasted almost 20 years, and progressing more towards early 2020s culture, although it's too early to know for sure. Sadly I'm not liking this emerging culture particularly, which I think is one of the reasons why I've been becoming more and more depressed. I'd like to hear your views on this.


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## cooldudez (Jun 13, 2017)

I really dont know because i don't remember the 2000s at all. 2010 was the first year i remember clearly, so i guess 2010-2017


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## brightflashes (Oct 27, 2015)

I say 2010-2017 because of the various political decisions around the world which are going to have an enormous effect on culture throughout the world. Also, the iPhone and the development of facebook has probably had an even bigger effect on culture.


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## Veggie (May 22, 2011)

2003-2010 saw the birth of smart phones, FB, social media generally really (unless you count AIM or something). So I'm gonna go with that.


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## brightflashes (Oct 27, 2015)

Veggie said:


> 2003-2010 saw the birth of smart phones, FB, social media generally really (unless you count AIM or something). So I'm gonna go with that.


Question - Do you think the birth of these things made a bigger mark on culture (2003-2010) or do you think that the popularity of these things and increasing their presence in everyday life makes a bigger mark on culture (2010-2017)? I know you already pretty much said this, but I'm thinking, for example, how microwaves/cordless phones weren't really a household item until early 90s, for example, or the idea that cellphones weren't really widespread until the 2000s. I mean, the availability of these things doesn't really mead that they are being used. At least that's how I approached the question. Another good example is household computers not really being a thing until 95-2000 even though they were available from late 70s on.


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## Veggie (May 22, 2011)

brightflashes said:


> Question - Do you think the birth of these things made a bigger mark on culture (2003-2010) or do you think that the popularity of these things and increasing their presence in everyday life makes a bigger mark on culture (2010-2017)? I know you already pretty much said this, but I'm thinking, for example, how microwaves/cordless phones weren't really a household item until early 90s, for example, or the idea that cellphones weren't really widespread until the 2000s. I mean, the availability of these things doesn't really mead that they are being used. At least that's how I approached the question. Another good example is household computers not really being a thing until 95-2000 even though they were available from late 70s on.


They were already popular before 2010 though. I remember pretty much everyone and literally their grandmothers being on FB by 2010, haha - and I'm pretty sure 2003 was the year it was invented? (Though exclusive to college kids at first). In 2002-2003 it wasn't considered a super oddity not to have a cell phone either, but by 2010 land lines didn't even really exist anymore. 

So all of these huge new changes were happening pretty rapidly - both the birth and the popularity, and it feels like it's all hit a bit of a plateau to me in the past seven years or so.


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## Lakigigar (Jan 4, 2016)

I have a feeling 2017 is more different than 2010 compared 2010 to 2003. (attitude, politics, social media, smartphone, fear of terrorism and the alt-right, euroscepticism, brands, money in sports, music is also really different (the 00's were known for pop, the 10's less ... ))


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## Dante Scioli (Sep 3, 2012)

The choice of years is awkward for me as an American. I would have used the recession and Obama's presidency as the dividing point, not 2010 which seems arbitrary to me. From my perspective the greatest change occurred during and shortly after the recession ('08-'09) so there is no question that 2003-2010 is the greater era of change.

If you were to use the Bush years beginning to end and the Obama years beginning to end it would have been a tougher call. Pre-crisis 2008 was very similar to 2000 and the end of Obama's presidency was very similar to its beginning as well.


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## PowerShell (Feb 3, 2013)

While the change in the recent years has accelerated, especially in terms of technology or just craziness in politics, I think it's all relative. For technology, it's essentially following Moore's law so the changes each time compared to what it was seem so much greater, so in the moment, it's all kind of the same.


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## Lameroid (Nov 16, 2015)

It's a doozy. I mean really, why should it matter so much if 2010 is either closer to 2003 or 2017. 2003 was 7 years close from 2010, but it barely had any similarities. It was still well before the smartphones and social media picked up. Not to mention that much of the late '90s (and even some core '90s) stuff was still relevant. 2010 is noticeably dated from 2017 either. Early '10s culture had just overtaken '00s culture, but the latter was still going pretty strong until at least mid-2011. Smartphones and tablets were just starting to rise but it wasn't yet certain that they would be a permanent phenomenon. Instagram didn't even exist for most of the year, "hipster" culture and that "flat" core '10s style wasn't yet relevant, and the music was pretty much distinct from both core '00s and core '10s. It was more related to 2008-2013, since the year had similar culture to those years.


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## the_immortal_829 (Jun 27, 2017)

I'd say definitely 2010-2017 because of the events and conflicts that have occurred socially, politically, economically, etc. Although I don't have very strong memories of the 2003-2010 period I don't remember that era being as chaotic as this current era.


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## Dustanddawnzone (Jul 13, 2014)

Let's not forget the internet culture war which seems more prevalent in 2010-2017 than 2003-2010. New concepts of gender keep popping up and being contested. (Though I guess this is just an expansion on what Lakigigar has already said with:


> (attitude, politics, social media, smartphone, fear of terrorism and the alt-right, euroscepticism,


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## Lameroid (Nov 16, 2015)

PowerShell said:


> While the change in the recent years has accelerated, especially in terms of technology or just craziness in politics, I think it's all relative. For technology, it's essentially following Moore's law so the changes each time compared to what it was seem so much greater, so in the moment, it's all kind of the same.


Yeah, that's true. Changes are always gradual. Nowadays we can see how 2003 is different from 1996 due to being in 2017. But in 2010 the differences between 1996-2003 weren't all that noticeable compared to the differences between 2003-2010 due to changes being gradual, that's why it's exactly the same deal with 2010 today. I don't really think many (if any) people in 2010 said that 2003 was any less different from then than it was from 1996 (nowadays we can definitely say it is, but at the time few actually could) or how 2017 may be any less different from 2024 than it is from 2010 (it would be hard to say that at the time, but in 2031 we'd probably able to).


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## 408610 (Oct 3, 2016)

i think culture change more in 2017 because Donald John Trump is the president of USA right now,NBA is shifting their audience from Millennials to Plural,Songs are changing from Millennials to Plural,Nintendo has just released Nintendo Switch which is a whole new completely gaming console/


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## 408610 (Oct 3, 2016)

Baby Boomers culture=1962-1980 (born from 1946 to 1964)(Pre-Era of the Popularity of the NBA in the world)
1962-1966 = Older/Early BB culture (Civil Rights, JFK assassination, James Bond, Mary Poppins, Sound of Music, soul, Beatles, Beach Boys)(b.circa 1946 to 1950)
1967-1971 = Older/Early Core BB culture (Flower Children, Richard Nixon, Star Trek, NASA Moon Landing, Woodstock, Vietnam War protests)(b.circa 1951 to 1955)
1972-1976 = Younger/Late Core BB culture (OPEC oil crisis, Richard Nixon resignation, Led Zeppelin, Exorcist, Jaws, All in the Family, Happy Days)(b.circa 1956 to 1960)

Younger/Late BB culture = 1977-1980 (Jimmy Carter, punk-rock, Judas Priest, death of Elvis, Star Wars,Empire Strike Back, Mork and Mindy, Grease, disco, early PCs, Atari 2600 and Magic Johnson's first Ring as a Rookie in the Lakers's Uniform)(b.circa 1961 to 1964)
Generation X Culture=1981-1997(born from 1965 to 1981)(The popularity of the NBA in the World and The Old School Of the NBA Basketball Games)
1981-1984 = Older/Early X culture (Ronald Reagan, early MTV, Van Halen, Thriller, Prince, A-Team, Indiana Jones, ET, video game crash,The Return of the Jedi, Ghostbusters and Magic Johnson,Larry Bird and Michael Jordan Era)(b.circa 1965 to 1968)
1985-1990 =Older/Early Core X culture (63 point performance by Michael Jordan against Celtics,Back to the Future, Breakfast Club, NES,Madonna, Michael Jacksons "Bad", NWA, Randy Travis, Fall of Berlin Wall, Simpsons debut)(b.circa 1969 to 1974)
1991-1994 = Younger/Late Core X culture (Garth Brooks, Whitney Houston, grunge, 16 bit console wars, Fall of USSR, Disney Renaissance, Bill Clinton, gangsta rap, Beavis & Butthead,First 3 peat of Michael Jordan and the Bulls ,Hakeem Olajuwon won the first ring for rockets.5th Generation of Gaming Console and Michael Jordan's first retirement )(b.circa 1975 to 1978)

Younger/Late X culture = 1995-1997(Hakeem Olajuwon won the 2nd ring for the rockets,Green Day, Friends, Alanis Morisette, Windows 95, PlayStation, Nintendo 64, Matchbox Twenty, rise of nu metal, death of Princess Diana,Tomorrow Never Dies, Titanic.72-10 and 4th ring for the bulls,Back to back champion for Michael Jordan and the Bulls)(b.circa 1979 to 1981)


Generation Y Culture=1998-2016(born from 1982 to 2000)(Final year of Old School of NBA which is 1998 and The New School of NBA Basketball Games began from 1999 to Present)
1998-2002 = Older/Early Y culture (The Final championship of the Chicago Bulls(The Final Era of MJ(Michael Jeffrey Jordan in the Bulls's Uniform),Michael Jordan's Second Retirement,Monica Lewinsky Scandal/The Impeachment of Bill Clinton,The World Is Not Enough,Die Another Day,princess pop, party rap, pop-punk, Playstation 2,nu metal, roller skating, Y2K, Tim Duncan and Spurs won the first rings,The Phantom Menace, George W. Bush,Shaquille 'O' Neal and The Lakers have their three peat from 2000-2002,Michael Jordan came back and played for wizards for two seasons,Lord of the Rings, 9/11, Windows 98,Windows 98 SE,Windows ME,Windows XP and 6th Generation of Gaming Console)b.circa 1982 to 1986)
2003-2007 = Older/Early Core Y culture (crunk hip hop,Chauncey Billups and the Detroit Pistons were NBA Champions,Tim Duncan and the Spurs won 4 rings,Casino Royale,The First rings Dwyane Wade and the Miami Heat,emo/scene, alternative rock, MySpace, Iraq War,Windows Vista,YouTube, Family Guy revival, Hurricane Katrina, Nintendo Wii, Playstation 3,Nintendo DS, Xbox 360,Halo 3, iPhone launch, The end of 5th Generation Gaming console,7th Generation of Gaming Consoles and it is still ongoing)(b.circa 1987 to 1991)
2008-2012= Younger/Late Core Y culture (Recession,Barack Obama, Glee, Facebook era, Paul Pierce won the first ring for the Celtics,Kobe Bryant won back to back championship for Lakers,Telectropop, Eminem "Recovery",Windows 7,Windows 8, Brony fandom, Libyan Revolution,Quantum of Solace,Skyfall Avengers,Dirk and Dallas won NBA Finals, Nintendo 3DS,The end of 6th Generation of Gaming Console,Hunger Games, Gangnam Style and Second Ring of the Miami Heat and LeBron James's First Ring in the Miami Heat's uniform and 8th Generation of Gaming Consoles and it is still ongoing)(b.circa 1992 to 1996)
Younger/Late Y culture = 2013-2016 (Windows 8.1,Windows 10,Back to Back Championship for the Heat and LeBron James's 2nd Ring in the Miami Heat's Uniform,Spectre,Youtube Music Awards 2013(Girls' Generation won the video of the year at the Youtube Music Awards)Ukraine, ISIS, rise in mass shootings, Brexit, 2016 election,Tim Duncan and the Spurs Won the fifth rings,Warriors won a ring but LeBron James became the first player to led the NBA Finals in 3 statistical categories without Kevin Love and Kyrie Irving ,Orange is the New Black,Playstation 4,Nintendo 2DS,The Force Awakens, Taylor Swift's "1989", rap-ballad pop,Cleveland's first ring or championship since 1964 which is the first championship of the Cavs.And LeBron James became the first player to the led NBA Finals in five statistical category and won his 3rd rings in the Cavs uniform)(b.circa 1997 to 2000)
Generation Z Culture=2017-Present(born from 2001-Present)
Older/Early Z Culture=2017-Present(Donald Trump,The Last Jedi,Emoji,Shape of You,Nintendo Switch,Kevin Durant's First Ring and Russell Westbrook's First MVP season and LeBron James became the first player to constitute triple trouble in the NBA Finals)(b.circa 2001-Present


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## knifey (Jun 25, 2017)

Veggie said:


> 2003-2010 saw the birth of smart phones, FB, social media generally really (unless you count AIM or something). So I'm gonna go with that.


This is exactly what I was thinking. Nothing has changed the world more than smart phones. Also 2003-2010 was the birth of the individualised media age, not just phones but internet speed. In 2003 there were still people on dialup or 256mbit. By 2010 the internet speed and computers were 10 times faster. Def more difference than 2010-2017. Not to mention the GFC in 2008 has changed the banking world to this date. It was also the birth of the electric car as we know it during this period, with the Tesla roadster. 

edit: There was an idiot muppet republican as president of USA in 2001-2009, who could hardly string two sentences together and was the laughing stock of the world, and now in 2017 we have such a different covfefe. What a change lol... oh and the spirit of fear and paranoia about terrorism today... yeah that's so different to 2003+ with the trade towers being cleared away, constant reminders of war and terrorism, shows like "24" and "Alias" constantly showing the world ending on telle every week XD ahaha yeah the world is so different now.


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## Riven (Jan 17, 2015)

RJDG14 said:


> *Dic should be did in the poll; a typo error, sorry
> 
> I've seen leaflets from c.2003, leaflets from 2010 and leaflets from now. On average, things such as the stylisation and typeface have changed more between 2010 and now, even though there's been the same period of time since. A lot of leaflets from 2003, while often different to their counterparts from 1996, don't look that different to 2010 in my opinion.


It's sort of a revival of the International Typographic Style, which probably first came about with Microsoft when they were releasing Windows Phone (not to be confused with Windows Mobile which both supported styluses (killed off in the 2010s with the success of Apple products) and which looked like a scaled down version of Windows XP and Vista and came out at roughly the same time as the desktop counterparts; the distinct tile design on that was infamously carried over to desktop and laptop computers in 2012 with the release of Windows 8. This is nothing new, and admittedly one of the few things I like about this decade, since I see the minimalistic UI design to be less elitist - you only have to know how to organise data, you won't need to be good at drawing or determining colours as well as a more typical art student will have to do.





















> Clothing has become noticeably slimmer and more muted looking in the last 4-5 years, at least in the UK. The "selfie culture" has taken off; use of filters on photos seems to have become the norm, music has become pretty drippy sounding across most genres, and preferred fonts have gone from Arial/Times New Roman/Verdana to Calibri and the Snapchat/Android/iOS fonts, none of which existed until the mid 2000s at the earliest. I call this the "(i)mobilisation" of culture, since everything's becoming more streamlined while more generic at the same time. I've been clothes shopping trying to look for some loosish stonewashed jeans and loose t-shirts that aren't a muted burgundy/brown/green colour and have great trouble finding anything, when 10 years ago this would have likely been very easy. Graphics have also been becoming noticeably flatter, with Apple, Microsoft, Google, Instagram and countless other organisations and services removing textures or gradients from their logos or other graphics.


Microsoft still has a shit taste in fonts in my opinion for the most part . Also, score one for the hipsters, they wanted a more "natural" colour scheme since I think they thought that the colours they used last decade were too loud and unnatural. As for the skinny jeans, once again, the hipsters, although I'm more likely to give this one to the emos since they were the ones that seemed to wear it often in my opinion.



> Another thing I found was that the British political party campaigns in this year's snap general election felt different to the campaigns in 2005, 2010 and 2015. *BOLD SKINNY CAPITAL LETTERS* seem to have been the primary font used by virtually all parties (as with most other stuff, since 90% of stuff from any particular era follows the culture of that era), the attitudes of the parties seem quite different to 5 years ago, and as with a lot of stuff, the whole thing felt more rushed than normal, even with it being a snap election with only two months notice.


Once again, blame the hipsters for this decade's overuse of the Bebas Neue font, since it's quite reminiscent of the typefaces of yore and is just used simply because it's minimalist, free and back then was a fresh alternative to Helvetica Condensed. I don't just see it on leaflets by the Green Party, but I also see it in things such as YT video thumbnails, particularly those that talk about computer hardware.










I just Googled "hardwarecanucks" for the typefaces they used on their thumbnails. They used Agency FB, a typeface that was actually developed in the early 20th century and looks futuristic to this day, and Impact, which has come to be the typeface for memes and advice animals. I think Bebas Neue (the one used above) gives a less angular and memetic feel while also evoking the profile that would have been fashionable in 20th century typography before Helvetica became mainstream.

Labour and the Lib Dems on the other hand both use Open Sans Black or something in my experience, which is bold but not narrow and not entirely in capitals - the only way to distinguish the parties' leaflets is by the colouring they use in addition to their content.





















> So, which would you say? It kinda feels to me like we're now moving away from late 90s/00s culture, which lasted almost 20 years, and progressing more towards early 2020s culture, although it's too early to know for sure. Sadly I'm not liking this emerging culture particularly, which I think is one of the reasons why I've been becoming more and more depressed. I'd like to hear your views on this.


Blame the hipsters for the bland fashion and blame Bieber for why short hair on guys is cool again (which I hate) even though he initially had his hair long, although the only thing I like about it is the skinny jeans. I can't help but believe that the hairstyle that the guys are wearing looks like they actually wanted Trump to be president even though Trump doesn't wear such a hairstyle at all. God forbid they bring back baggy jeans, but I'm gonna have to wear them since my legs are so damn big :/ The music also sounds rather bland, soulless and uncoordinated in my opinion for this decade (Adele and Clean Bandit are a couple of artists I feel are examples of this), I bet they were trying to sound more "grown up" and felt that the rather dominant pop punk sound of the 2000s was too "childish".


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## Rhudz (Jun 29, 2017)

Hard to say but I would say about the same difference but for different reasons a there was lot more change with technology between 2003 and 2010 like the rise of social networking, YouTube and the birth of smartphones but more political changes between 2010 and 2017 with political correctness and changes around the world.


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## karlpalaka (Sep 11, 2019)

It depends. Things can change every year. 2003 was very different from 2010 while 2017 was very different from 2010.


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## karlpalaka (Sep 11, 2019)

karlpalaka said:


> It depends. Things can change every year. 2003 was very different from 2010 while 2017 was very different from 2010. In terms of technology, 2003 to 2010 cause technology usage was rising during those years, but politically, it would be 2010 to 2017 due to a lot of events happening worldwide.


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## karlpalaka (Sep 11, 2019)

knifey said:


> Veggie said:
> 
> 
> > 2003-2010 saw the birth of smart phones, FB, social media generally really (unless you count AIM or something). So I'm gonna go with that.
> ...


If you think Bush was bad, try Obama. I couldnt take him seriously even. He looks he is a preschool teacher.


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## PowerShell (Feb 3, 2013)

karlpalaka said:


> If you think Bush was bad, try Obama. I couldnt take him seriously even. He looks he is a preschool teacher.


Then what's Trump?


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## karlpalaka (Sep 11, 2019)

PowerShell said:


> Then what's Trump?


Honestly, it depends. Each president had his ups and downs. Aside from obamacare, Barack Hussein Obama did nothing really to help the country. Trump is actually trying to. I mean he is not against immigration, but he is against illegal immigrants, and I am too cause they are dangerous. He actually cares about our country.


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## PowerShell (Feb 3, 2013)

karlpalaka said:


> Honestly, it depends. Each president had his ups and downs. Aside from obamacare, Barack Hussein Obama did nothing really to help the country. Trump is actually trying to. I mean he is not against immigration, but he is against illegal immigrants, and I am too cause they are dangerous. He actually cares about our country.


Ok dude. I thought Bush was a complete idiot, but looking back, he still looks Presidential compared to the idiot we have now. I have a feeling you don't get it in your dig at Obama's full name and complaining about immigrants I won't convince you otherwise, but I believe Obama did more for our standing in the world, especially after Bush, than a lot of presidents did.


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## karlpalaka (Sep 11, 2019)

PowerShell said:


> Ok dude. I thought Bush was a complete idiot, but looking back, he still looks Presidential compared to the idiot we have now. I have a feeling you don't get it in your dig at Obama's full name and complaining about immigrants I won't convince you otherwise, but I believe Obama did more for our standing in the world, especially after Bush, than a lot of presidents did.


Obama did nothing when all those terrorist attacks were happening during his second term. I will admit Bush sorted of provoked the Middle East causing 9/11 to happen based on what I heard. Trump is actually taking his job seriously and cares about our nation. Yeah, I agree Obama was completely supportive of immigration, but Trump is not against immigration in general. Just the undocumented ones. That is why he was trying to build the wall, so that all those refugees wont commit crimes in our country. This past month, so many undocumented immigrants committed crimes in California. San Francisco used to be a nice city when I was a kid, but now it is a sanctuary city filled with undocumented immigrants every corner.


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## PowerShell (Feb 3, 2013)

karlpalaka said:


> Obama did nothing when all those terrorist attacks were happening during his second term. I will admit Bush sorted of provoked the Middle East causing 9/11 to happen based on what I heard. Trump is actually taking his job seriously and cares about our nation. Yeah, I agree Obama was completely supportive of immigration, but Trump is not against immigration in general. Just the undocumented ones. That is why he was trying to build the wall, so that all those refugees wont commit crimes in our country. This past month, so many undocumented immigrants committed crimes in California. San Francisco used to be a nice city when I was a kid, but now it is a sanctuary city filled with undocumented immigrants every corner.


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## q543frodomar (May 15, 2018)

Bin Laden was killed in 2011 under Obama.


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## PowerShell (Feb 3, 2013)

q543frodomar said:


> Bin Laden was killed in 2011 under Obama.


Yeah. That's why I had to just respond to the guy above with eyes rolling.


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## karlpalaka (Sep 11, 2019)

PowerShell said:


> q543frodomar said:
> 
> 
> > Bin Laden was killed in 2011 under Obama.
> ...


Well, what exactly did he do for his second term, and having bin laden assassinated was a long term mission way before barack hussein obama even became president.


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## Gmkl (Jan 19, 2019)

trick question, the most noticeable pop cultural changes would be from 2009-2013 the bridge from the core 00s to the core 10s

then the question would be is the core 00s more different from the electropop era or the core 10s

i personally would guess the first option and vote for 2003-2010


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## PowerShell (Feb 3, 2013)

karlpalaka said:


> Well, what exactly did he do for his second term, and having bin laden assassinated was a long term mission way before barack hussein obama even became president.


The only people who refer to President Obama as "barack hussein obama" are people trying to insult him. You lose a lot of credibility when you use that pointed rhetoric. If you want to say this was a "long term mission" and try to discredit Obama's efforts, then what about our economic growth that we've been experiencing the last decade? Does Trump receive no credit for the good economy since it started long before he was President and started under Obama after Bush crashed it?


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## pwowq (Aug 7, 2016)

No year beats 1989 for sure. It was insane. The whole world flipped within a year.

When speaking time-periods you'll get different answers from people. The person having most late teenyears to early 20s will most likely say that part "changed the most".


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## karlpalaka (Sep 11, 2019)

PowerShell said:


> The only people who refer to President Obama as "barack hussein obama" are people trying to insult him. You lose a lot of credibility when you use that pointed rhetoric. If you want to say this was a "long term mission" and try to discredit Obama's efforts, then what about our economic growth that we've been experiencing the last decade? Does Trump receive no credit for the good economy since it started long before he was President and started under Obama after Bush crashed it?


Yeah, it crashed under bush, I will give you that one. I was not really a fan of him. Trump though takes his job very seriously. Of course he deserves credit for the good economy.


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## PowerShell (Feb 3, 2013)

karlpalaka said:


> Yeah, it crashed under bush, I will give you that one. I was not really a fan of him. Trump though takes his job very seriously. Of course he deserves credit for the good economy.


Dude, you really crack me up.


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## karlpalaka (Sep 11, 2019)

PowerShell said:


> Dude, you really crack me up.


You did when you said that people who call Obama by his full first, middle, and last name insult him. That is not true. People call him "President Obama" only if they actually work for him or work with him.


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## PowerShell (Feb 3, 2013)

karlpalaka said:


> You did when you said that people who call Obama by his full first, middle, and last name insult him. That is not true. People call him "President Obama" only if they actually work for him or work with him.


The only people I've heard use his middle name is people insulting him. Nobody referring to him in any other context says his middle name like that. The fact that you went on to praise Trump makes it clear you were using it in that context to effectively cut him down.


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## karlpalaka (Sep 11, 2019)

PowerShell said:


> The only people I've heard use his middle name is people insulting him. Nobody referring to him in any other context says his middle name like that. The fact that you went on to praise Trump makes it clear you were using it in that context to effectively cut him down.


Praising trump doesnt mean I have anything against obama. To be honest, it no longer really matters who will be president during the early 20s. The mess the human have made over the last several decades will be too much for one president to clean up.


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## PowerShell (Feb 3, 2013)

karlpalaka said:


> Praising trump doesnt mean I have anything against obama. To be honest, it no longer really matters who will be president during the early 20s. The mess the human have made over the last several decades will be too much for one president to clean up.


You're completely diverting from what I even said and changing the topic. How old are you? We're talking about possibly the mid 2000's in this thread. If you're as old as I am (30) you should remember this well. 

Basically the Islamophobia that carried over from 9/11 and the Bush years was directed at Barrak Obama. People used to stress his middle name Hussein to invoke this Islamophobia and use it as an insult against him. People even claimed he was Muslim to try to further cut him down. People who praise Trump tend to keep doing this and the fact that you both used his middle name in a derogatory fashion and was praising Trump leads me to believe you're using at it as an insult. Either that, or you're very naive.


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## karlpalaka (Sep 11, 2019)

PowerShell said:


> You're completely diverting from what I even said and changing the topic. How old are you? We're talking about possibly the mid 2000's in this thread. If you're as old as I am (30) you should remember this well.
> 
> Basically the Islamophobia that carried over from 9/11 and the Bush years was directed at Barrak Obama. People used to stress his middle name Hussein to invoke this Islamophobia and use it as an insult against him. People even claimed he was Muslim to try to further cut him down. People who praise Trump tend to keep doing this and the fact that you both used his middle name in a derogatory fashion and was praising Trump leads me to believe you're using at it as an insult. Either that, or you're very naive.


I am 22, and I was unaware people were using his middle name as an insult. Yes, I heard people saying Obama supported Muslims cause they thought he was a Muslim because of his middle name. I didnt really see him as supporting terrorists. I knew he didnt want to stop immigration, even for the undocumented ones. Obama started his first term in early 2009, but yes, he had to be the one who had to worry about the mess bush caused when he angered the middle east. However, I have to say, obama was one of the most respected presidents in this time period as many actually wanted him to run for a third term.


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## PowerShell (Feb 3, 2013)

karlpalaka said:


> I am 22, and I was unaware people were using his middle name as an insult. Yes, I heard people saying Obama supported Muslims cause they thought he was a Muslim because of his middle name. I didnt really see him as supporting terrorists. I knew he didnt want to stop immigration, even for the undocumented ones. Obama started his first term in early 2009, but yes, he had to be the one who had to worry about the mess bush caused when he angered the middle east. However, I have to say, obama was one of the most respected presidents in this time period as many actually wanted him to run for a third term.


Ok. I thought with Gen Y on your profile, you were a bit older, but you're literally at the absolute tail end. It sounds like you're in a Republican echo chamber where saying his name like that is normal. Just like a Southerner hearing the N word all time 40 years ago may not know it's as bad as it is. I guess you're naive, but be aware of what I said.

In regards to Obama being soft on illegal immigration, he deported more illegal immigrants than Trump: https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...fa72e4-7e1d-11e7-9d08-b79f191668ed_story.html

Trump is a salesman. Look past his rhetoric. He talks about being tough on immigration. He's really not. He complained about the deficit and debt under Obama yet he has bigger deficits and will add more to the debt than Obama. He complained about Obama's golfing, yet has golfed more than Obama. He's a grade A hypocrite who just talks tough but has nothing to show for it. Stop buying into his snake oil BS.


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