# Could Madonna actually be a 7?



## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

I've watched several interviews of her and, she doesn't seem like a 3 to me. I don't get any kind of conscientious energy from her at all. just "here I am bitches! worship me!" which falls more in line with the conceited, unreserved nature of type 7 (particularly a Sexual 7). honestly, I don't think she puts up much of an image at all, she actually is that way. it seems to be that she is all about getting a rush/surge and doesn't care much about anything else.


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

She is more likely to be a 7w8 than a 3, far more likely.


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## LibertyPrime (Dec 17, 2010)

o.o imo 7w8 ESTP, what was she typed as lol?


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## mushr00m (May 23, 2011)

I thought she was a 3 but 7 seems more fitting, she has that godly type persona going on that happens in 7's i've noticed.


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## The Scorched Earth (May 17, 2010)

It's definitely her head fix, but she seems pretty cool and reserved in interviews. She only really lets loose when she's on tour.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Ice Ghost said:


> It's definitely her head fix, but she seems pretty cool and reserved in interviews. She only really lets loose when she's on tour.


7s can be very cool and reserved, but they're less conscientious, which I notice in Madonna.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

FreeBeer said:


> o.o imo 7w8 ESTP, what was she typed as lol?


3w4 Sx/So

I think she's ESFP 7w8 Sx/So


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## LibertyPrime (Dec 17, 2010)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> 3w4 Sx/So
> 
> I think she's ESFP 7w8 Sx/So


^^ like P!nk. Works for me.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

FreeBeer said:


> ^^ like P!nk. Works for me.


I'm not sure if Pink is a 6w7, a 7w8 or an 8w7. 7w8 makes sense.


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## mimesis (Apr 10, 2012)

Would be interested in seeing those interviews you mention.

Just one quote I have in mind. Of course not to pin down on a singular line of text, although in this case I'd say it's pretty profound, as she talks about liberation of the ego. 



> In her words, Madonna has said, "I want to be liberated from my ego, less concerned about what other people think of me." She also said,"I remember that I couldn't sit still for a second. I was always on the move. I was often pretty aggressive, wild and unpredictable, but all that's changed."
> Yoga at Home for Beginners: Yoga and Musing on Madonna's Moves at the Superbowl - Yoga at Home for the Absolute Beginner!


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## mimesis (Apr 10, 2012)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> 7s can be very cool and reserved, but they're less conscientious, which I notice in Madonna.


Did you consider the possibility that that in itself may be an 'image'?


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## The Scorched Earth (May 17, 2010)

3's go to 6 when they integrate, meaning they become less competitive and cooperative with people. 7's go to 5, meaning they become more still and mentally composed. I think for Madonna, it's the former.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

mimesis said:


> Did you consider the possibility that that in itself may be an 'image'?


you could really argue any personality characteristic is an 'image', but in this case, I don't see much evidence for it.


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## mimesis (Apr 10, 2012)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> you could really argue any personality characteristic is an 'image', but in this case, I don't see much evidence for it.


Even more so with a celebrity. 

But I would say it's very evident, she has been extremely 'image'-conscious, throughout her career. It's in no way circumstantial or coincidential but designed, and why she has been so succesfull. You may call her behavior conceited, but isn't deceit the passion of 3 and vanity the fixation?


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

mimesis said:


> Even more so with a celebrity.
> But I would say it's very evident, she has been extremely 'image'-conscious, throughout her career. It's in no way circumstantial or coincidential but designed, and why she has been so successful. You may call her behavior conceited, but isn't deceit the passion of 3


yes, but I don't see any evidence that she is deceitful. I act like Madonna all the time and I'm not being deceitful :laughing:



> and vanity the fixation?


when Naranjo speaks of vanity, he means


> Vanity is a passionate concern for one’s image, or a passion of living for the eyes of others. Living for appearances implies that the focus of concern is not in one’s own experience, but in the anticipation or fantasy of the experience of another, and thus the insubstantiality of the vain pursuit. Nothing could be more appropriately called “vanity of vanities,” of which the preacher in Ecclesiastes speaks, than living for an ephemeral and insubstantial image (rather than out of oneself).


this is the vanity of type 3. when most people use the word "vanity" they're usually referring to someone who desires to look beautiful and draws attention to themselves, but most 7s and Sx doms would relate to this somewhat. some people want to look goof for themselves and aren't giving off a false image to do so.

can you provide any examples of how she's image conscious?


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## Tater Tot (May 28, 2012)

Madonna's first performance on Dick Clark gave me 7 vibes. He asked her what her goals were or whatever and she basically said she was gonna take over the world.


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## mimesis (Apr 10, 2012)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> yes, but I don't see any evidence that she is deceitful. I act like Madonna all the time and I'm not being deceitful :laughing:


:laughing: Good point! 




Swordsman of Mana said:


> when Naranjo speaks of vanity, he means
> 
> this is the vanity of type 3. when most people use the word "vanity" they're usually referring to someone who desires to look beautiful and draws attention to themselves, but most 7s and Sx doms would relate to this somewhat. some people want to look goof for themselves and aren't giving off a false image to do so.
> 
> can you provide any examples of how she's image conscious?


Yeah, I know what you mean, but I wasn't referring to that kind of vanity or being image-conscious. 

Madonna was already a phenomenom when you were born. I don't mean this in a patronizing way, but I was 14, 15 when she became famous in the eighties. We were the first generation born after the 2nd feminist wave. My first gf when I was 16 was sort of a Madonna lookalike. Pretty shocking for the small town in the countryside I grew up in. For many girls of my age, even if they didn't particularly like her music, they considered her a symbol of a combination of being strong/assertive, self-confident and ambitious, as well as sexy. The virgin-whore dichotomy was much stronger then than it is now. 













madonna wiki said:


> Professor Camille Paglia from University of the Arts called Madonna a "true feminist" and noted that "she exposes the puritanism and suffocating ideology of American feminism, which is stuck in an adolescent whining mode." According to her, "Madonna has taught young women to be fully female and sexual while still exercising total control over their lives." Madonna defended herself as a feminist in 2008, saying that though she "may be dressing like the typical bimbo", she is in charge of her own life and career.



The holy idea of 3 is holy law (hope). So why is it called 'law'? 

Because it is focused on 'natural' laws. Like most social animals we need hierarchy to function as a group. For men (or 'the masculine' in a more holistic view rather than gender stereotype) this is predominantely dominance hierarchy (brave and strong) and for women (or 'the feminine') predominantely status (nice and sweet, or attractive). These are group-processes that establish almost by itself (whether you are a 3 or not, although they will probably be most conscious of it). High social status (dominant or popular) enhances survival chances of the genes. Because of holy law (or the disconnect from it) a 3 seeks to establish self-worth by achieving status through performance (efficacy) or attraction. It trusts very much on 'natural laws', like Adam Smiths 3 natural laws: Self-interest, Competition, Supply and Demand or Charles Darwins law of fitness/flexibility (adaptation to circumstance). (also law of attraction, optimism, etc.)

It's interesting to compare this with the other two image types, related to social value and shame, but I would digress even more :laughing:




> In an interview with Vanity Fair, Madonna commented that she saw herself in her youth as a "lonely girl who was searching for something. I wasn't rebellious in a certain way. *I cared about being good at something.* I didn't shave my underarms and I didn't wear make-up like normal girls do. *But I studied and I got good grades ... I wanted to be somebody.*"
> Madonna (entertainer) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Anyway, so on the one hand one could argue, if she helped changing norms of society, she can't be a 3, because 3s would adapt rather than change or reform. But I think she had a very good radar on what was going on in society. And she didn't so much 'dictate' top-down, but was lifted up (bottom-up) becoming an icon of a changing society searching for a new social equilibrium. Compared to for instance Bowie, who's images were more referring to 'alienation' from society (4-ish), sexual ambiguity and dandyism, her looks had more symbolism of existing metaphors and social status symbols (not necessarily luxury, also sexual, religious) and icons like Marylin Monroe and Marlene Dietrich. 

"Jeri Heiden, the album's cover designer commented, "She was already highly aware of the value of her image and was in control of it. After I took the photo, it appeared as if she was floating—her clothing was not visible. She took on the appearance of a marble statue, goddess-like." O'Brien felt that the artwork heralded the arrival of a new Madonna, while drawing on the enduring appeal of her celluloid icon Marilyn Monroe. "

















True Blue (Madonna album) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia





























She also picked up trends from underground, to bring it to a larger audience, like with Vogueing in 1990. 



Vogue said:


> Ball culture, the house system, the ballroom community and similar terms describe the underground LGBTsubculture in the United States in which people "walk" (i.e. compete) for trophies and prizes at events known as balls. Those who walk often also dance and vogue while others compete in various genres of drag often trying topass as a specific gender and social class.
> 
> The film also documents the origins of "voguing", a dance style in which competing ball-walkers freeze and "pose" in glamorous positions (as if being photographed for the cover of Vogue).





wiki madonna said:


> Throughout her career, Madonna has repeatedly reinvented herself through a series of visual and musical personae. According to professors Peter L. Rudnytsky and Andrew M. Gordon in Psychoanalyses: Feminisms "many critics laud her continual reinvention of self. They agrees that "this is one of Madonna's cultural meanings". Fouz-Hernández agrees that this re-invention is one of her key cultural achievements. Madonna reinvented herself by working with upcoming talented producers and previously unknown artists, while remaining at the center of media attention. According to Freya Jarman-Ivens, "In doing so Madonna has provided an example of how to maintain one's career in the entertainment industry." Such reinvention was noted by scholars as the main tool in surviving the musical industry, for a female artist. Bradley Jacobs from Us Weekly said: "What new idea has Cher come up with? Michael Jackson started out at the same time, and they're like apples and oranges. Overall, Madonna has always succeeded by staying ahead of curve."


Damn, and this is just the eighties. So, you say you got a vibe from the interviews. Can't really argue with 'a vibe' of course. I hope I gave some examples of her image-consciousness, in a social context. I already posted her quote about liberating from her ego (fixation). But I'll end with this quote from Warren Beaty, to keep in mind when you get a vibe from her. 



In bed with Madonna said:


> Warren Beatty: [after Madonna declines to talk to her doctor off-camera] She doesn't want to live off-camera, much less talk. There's nothing to say off-camera. Why would you say something if it's off-camera? What point is there existing?


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## Brian1 (May 7, 2011)

I think she is,because the media always talks about her reinvention. Then you have the high sex drive in her songs, _Like a Virgin,Vogue,Justify Your Love, Open Your Heart, Cherish_. Another clue is _Like A Prayer_, and this is her ESTP speaking , she says, "life is a mystery, everyone must stand alone." And I think as people we're given a linear way to live, we're born, go to school, educated at a college, then get married,have kids ...etc,and the ESTP 7 knows life is a bit more unpredictable.


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## Tater Tot (May 28, 2012)

lol I also have to mention something 3-ish I just remembered where she was talking in an interview about a dream she had.

"I dreamt that I opened up Billboard magazine and my song had dropped to #3, and Whitney Houston's had gone to #1. And then I went down to my voice teacher's studio where I take lessons, and I walked in and she was humming Whitney Houston's song, and I was devastated. This is what I'm dreaming about!" rofll


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

7s can be very very competitive.


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## JoanCrawford (Sep 27, 2012)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> I'm not sure if Pink is a 6w7, a 7w8 or an 8w7. 7w8 makes sense.


P!nk has a bit of an emotional side under that tough exterior. I would guess 7w8.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

at the moment, I think Madonna is ESFP 7w8(sw6w7)>3w2(sw4w3)>8w7(sw7w6) Sx/So~Flirter


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## Tater Tot (May 28, 2012)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> at the moment, I think Madonna is ESFP 7w8(sw6w7)>3w2(sw4w3)>8w7(sw7w6) Sx/So~Flirter


Is that what they're called now? Flirters? :laughing:


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## monemi (Jun 24, 2013)

mushr00m said:


> I thought she was a 3 but 7 seems more fitting, she has that godly type persona going on that happens in 7's i've noticed.


Godly? Where the hell are my worshippers? Do I have to go out and find them myself? Or is there a catalogue/website I can order from? Could I make a preference for hot worshippers? Seems I've got more work to do.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Tater Tot said:


> Is that what they're called now? Flirters? :laughing:


Flirter is the middle range of Sx/So

Sx/So~Fireside: Sx/So with weak So
Sx/So~Flirter: Sx/So with medium So
Sx/So~Coolside: Sx/So with strong So


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## DarkKisses (Oct 3, 2015)

I think she's 2w3 BUT 7w8 make sense too
Don't know ..


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## Golden Rose (Jun 5, 2014)

I've been thinking about this for a while, especially since Madonna is interesting to me. I thought she was an image type for the longest time, especially since the "here I am bitches! worship me!" attitude you've mentioned is typical of 2s too but I don't think she's a 2. 7w8 makes a lot of sense under many different angles. She's detached while 2w3 is the most emotionally dramatic type of them all, 7 can be too but there's not much concern about her image. She fabricates scandals just for the attention, her transitions between different styles aren't calculated, she simply decides to market herself as whatever she wants to be and/or perceives as popular.

2s are consistent, smooth. They have a whole image and reputation to keep up.
I can see a 2 having an outrageous public persona but Madonna is in for the attention, money, fun.
Look at the recent accident with Drake or various pr stunts she pulled from fake lesbianism to switching religions. She's not Regina George (soc 2) or Regina George in sheep clothing (sp 2, Taylor Swift) or a sensual, aggressive diva (sx 2, Mariah Carey). She seems more like someone who's got a good hold of the industry and rolls with whatever idea she manages to pull, it's a different kind of assertion and energy. 

Also she makes fun of both herself and the industry a lot:











And I can't see a 50+ years old core 2 releasing a song/video like 'Bitch I'm Madonna'.
She likes provocation, experimenting and pushing boundaries. ESTP 7w8 782/728.

Can't see 3 at all. What kind of 3 would be so careless about their reputation and achievements?
Beyonce and Jay Z are a 3w2/3w4 couple. What's the last time they got any serious _negative_ attention?
She even avoids to release any interviews which only helps her somewhat unreachable status.


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## Superfluous (Jan 28, 2014)

All hail Madge!


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## Carpentet810 (Nov 17, 2013)

Could Madonna also be a virgin??? Sounds equally plausible!


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