# A Game of Thrones TV series



## Resolution

Hey can the INFJs shotgun John Snow, btw? :tongue:


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## nottie

Ormazd said:


> Who doesn't love Arya?


True 



Btmangan said:


> I foresee Jon Snow playing a huge part in the next few books, even if his parents don't end up being a vital bloodline. Part of me also wonders if Daenerys will end up marrying in to one of the great houses... interesting thought.


I could see that Cx Just not them together.. strangely, there's a lot of hope for that online..
On a semi-related note, any guesses about his true parentage?



Btmangan said:


> Hey can the INFJs shotgun John Snow, btw? :tongue:


Hm.. maybe I see it xD


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## Resolution

nottie said:


> I could see that Cx Just not them together.. strangely, there's a lot of hope for that online..


There's a John x Daenerys fanbase? Odd... Daenery's doesn't strike me as the type that would fall in love with John Snow... And John Snow doesn't seem the type to fall for her. 



> On a semi-related note, any guesses about his true parentage?


I don't take Ned for the whoring/cheating type, so I always assumed that he both

-Wasn't John's father and...
-Had a dutiful _reason _for hiding John's lineage

Extrapolating from that... it's always been my belief that John is the son of Lianna and either Rhegar or the mad king. This would lead to Ned save his Nephew... knowing that the Rebels would want to purge the Targaryan bloodline. 



> Hm.. maybe I see it xD


I can take Jon... that's a good deal :tongue:

Let's try to type GoT, shall we? Here's my first attempt for the starks

Stark-

Ned- ISTJ
Catlyn- ISFX
Jon Snow- IXFX
Rob- IXXJ
Sansa- ESFJ
Arya- ISTP


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## nottie

Btmangan said:


> There's a John x Daenerys fanbase? Odd... Daenery's doesn't strike me as the type that would fall in love with John Snow... And John Snow doesn't seem the type to fall for her.


That was exactly my take on it. :| I love 'em, just not as a pair. 



Btmangan said:


> from that... it's always been my belief that John is the son of Lianna and either Rhegar or the mad king. This would lead to Ned save his Nephew... knowing that the Rebels would want to purge the Targaryan bloodline.


Yeah, I only just discovered that theory - I honestly hadn't thought much on his birth until I stumbled across it xD - and it makes a lot of sense. And didn't she make Ned keep some sort of promise or something in the end..? IDK why she wouldn't want her son to know, but I imagine doing a noble deed for his dead sister would be one of the few reasons he'd make his wife think he cheated. 



Btmangan said:


> I can take Jon... that's a good deal :tongue:


You guys always get the cool characters D8 I don't believe there are any ENFPs in the book..

Stark:
Ned- Agree
Catlyn- ISFJ? pulled out of my ass.
Jon Snow- INFJ  I'll run with it..
Rob- ISTJ, like Ned
Sansa- yeah. Though I could see her as an I.
Arya- yeah.

Lannister:
Tyrion - ENTP OMFG
Cersei - INTJ + crazy biotchness
Jamie - ESTP


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## Dark Raven

Of all the characters, I must say, Jon Snow seems the most INFJ-ish IMO :wink:


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## Ormazd

nottie said:


> Lannister:
> Tyrion - ENTP OMFG
> Cersei - INTJ + crazy biotchness
> Jamie - ESTP


I always thought of Tyrion as an INTJ.

Seems much more Fi than Fe. Though it's hard to say if he's E or I. He spends a lot of time reading, and gathering information. And he seems perfectly okay with having very few people around him if any. That, I can strongly relate to just about anything he does. :mellow:


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## Resolution

Ormazd said:


> I always thought of Tyrion as an INTJ.
> 
> Seems much more Fi than Fe. Though it's hard to say if he's E or I. He spends a lot of time reading, and gathering information. And he seems perfectly okay with having very few people around him if any. That, I can strongly relate to just about anything he does. :mellow:


INTJs and ENTPs have different flavors. 

As far as the TV-show version goes... Dinklage plays him as an ENTP, definitely. If I had to compare him between my ENTP step dad and my INTJ friend, I'd say he's miles closer to my step dad. When INTJ's speak... it feels like they are saying "This is the truth. Do not dispute it". When ENTPs speak... it's like all the logic is the buildup to some cruel joke :laughing: 

Dinklage does the latter, I think. 

*Lysa*- ESFP? 
*Brienne of Tarth*- This is an extremely tough one. It's been a long time since I read the books and she seems to suppress her true self quite extensively due to her strange position as a knight >_< Although if I had to wager, I'd say she's an introverted feeler of some stripe...

I might even say INFP


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## nottie

Ormazd said:


> I always thought of Tyrion as an INTJ.


I could possibly see him between J and P.. but I can't see him as an I. xD As Btmangan put it, his flavor is _so_ ENTP.



Btmangan said:


> *Lysa*- ESFP?
> *Brienne of Tarth*- This is an extremely tough one. It's been a long time since I read the books and she seems to suppress her true self quite extensively due to her strange position as a knight >_< Although if I had to wager, I'd say she's an introverted feeler of some stripe...
> 
> I might even say INFP


Lysa's type is irritating. 
Brienne.. hmmm. That is hard. All I would say for certain is IF, yeah. Perhaps ISFP.

Daenerys - IXFX again xD hrmm INFP?


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## Resolution

nottie said:


> I could possibly see him between J and P.. but I can't see him as an I. xD As Btmangan put it, his flavor is _so_ ENTP.
> 
> 
> Lysa's type is irritating.
> Brienne.. hmmm. That is hard. All I would say for certain is IF, yeah. Perhaps ISFP.
> 
> Daenerys - IXFX again xD hrmm INFP?


Looks like you found some characters to root for. :tongue:


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## sgman

What a great episode. Loved the Ned Stark - Jaime Lannister exchange at the end. That tried and true hack and slash ISTJ fighting style paired up against the ESTP performer; that was interesting to behold. 

Anyway, I thought i'd try some mbti typing, based on how they've been portrayed so far in the tv series:

Sandor Clegane/the Hound: ISTJ (loyalist)
Gregor Clegane/the Mountain: ESTJ (caricature, borderline sociopathic, bullish and lacking in imagination)
Robert Baratheon: ESTP (hedonist with a bit of a mean streak)
Littlefinger: INTJ (classic mastermind)
Viserys Targaryen: ESTJ (an unhealthy one; very demanding, but lacks the people skills to inspire people to follow him, has a mean streak)

I agree with Nottie's assessment of the characters she mentioned, so I've just typed ones that she hasn't mentioned yet.


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## Catenaccio

Love this show! Where I am we're only up to episode 2. So I can't read this thread because of spoilers.

Also the Princess Daenerys is something else! I have enjoyed the scenes where she was getting sex coaching from her attractive maid, hopefully there is more to come.

I tried to post a video to her, but my post count is too low.


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## Dark Raven

Lol

Interesting episode it was. Although, It's all going sooo fast.


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## nottie

@Marijke90 Yeah, it is. xD That's probably a good thing, though.. it's a pretty long book.

@sgman I can agree with all of those. C:


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## Olivia

I've read all the books twice and seen the first 5 episodes. So far, I think the show represents the books pretty well.

There is more nudity than I'd prefer and what's with almost all the sex being doggy style? I thought SnoopDog was going to pop in at any moment and start rapping.

Also, I can't find anything in the books alluding to the whole Renly/Loras thing but maybe there is something I missed.


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## Imperatrix

Olivia said:


> I've read all the books twice and seen the first 5 episodes. So far, I think the show represents the books pretty well.
> 
> There is more nudity than I'd prefer and what's with almost all the sex being doggy style? I thought SnoopDog was going to pop in at any moment and start rapping.
> 
> Also, I can't find anything in the books alluding to the whole Renly/Loras thing but maybe there is something I missed.


I had never heard of the books prior to the series, so now I am torn between reading the books and finishing the series later. I hate to sound like a prude, but I _do_ wish that the sex and nudity was toned down a little bit. My kids would love this show, but I cannot share it with them for, like, a decade!


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## nottie

Yeah, I agree on the sex/nudity. : ( I think the show could easily find a bigger audience without quite as much of it.. There's certainly plenty of that in the books, but I never felt like boobs were being waved in my face 24/7. xD Ohwell, it's a minor gripe in the grand scheme of things.



Olivia said:


> Also, I can't find anything in the books alluding to the whole Renly/Loras thing but maybe there is something I missed.


Yeah, apparently Loras was gay in the books, but I think I found that out online rather than by reading.. that's what I get for skimming Sansa chapters. xD It definitely wasn't that early on! But it makes sense that they'd speed things up.


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## Olivia

Imperatrix said:


> I had never heard of the books prior to the series, so now I am torn between reading the books and finishing the series later. I hate to sound like a prude, but I _do_ wish that the sex and nudity was toned down a little bit. My kids would love this show, but I cannot share it with them for, like, a decade!


The books are quite smutty too but of course text is different than live action film or video. 

I find I'm still enjoying the show despite knowing what's going to happen, much the same as with the Lord of the Rings or Harry Potter. It's interesting to see how the HBO team visualizes it all and to see how the actors interpret the roles.

The books offer their own frustrations since the author is notoriously slow. Book 5 is due in July but it will mainly be recounting the same time frame as book 4 from the perspective of characters who were left out of book 4 (due to the book's length becoming unwieldy).

I can't wait for book 6, if he ever gets around to writing it. HBO will have plenty of time to create more TV seasons. I hope they stick with it and adapt all the books.

Oh and I don't know MBTI very well but I doubt Brienne of Tarth is an INFP.


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## Olivia

nottie said:


> Yeah, apparently Loras was gay in the books, but I think I found that out online rather than by reading.. that's what I get for skimming Sansa chapters. xD It definitely wasn't that early on! But it makes sense that they'd speed things up.


We should have spoiler alerts on this thread! I'm not sure how to do spoilers on this forum. (Must look that up.)

But definitely, Loras being gay explains why he's so aloof to wimmenz in the books. I thought he was just sort of asexual but gay makes more sense.


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## Roland Khan

i remember back when i read the series for the first time (well the first four books that are only ones released so far) about five or six years ago, still waiting for the infamous fifth one to be released....come on George!!! 

i was hooked from the very first chapter and didnt put books down until was finished. then just about 8 months ago when i heard series was about to be aired i started back up and got thru em again. one of my two all time favorite series, the other being Harry Turtledove's Worldwar/Colonization series (7 books, same as Song of ice and fireis supposed to be if george ever decides to actually release the next one, its been atleast 6 years).

so far i think the series is great. its a bit slow but not too much happened in the first book, its all basically set up with minor events to get things rollin. arya is great, loved her throughout the books and she's excellent in the show. another one of my fav characters is tyrion but in the show they seemed to have decided to not make him as hideous as he's supposed to be in the books, but the wits and tricks are all still there. 

cant wait until daenerys gets.....ah, well you who've read the books know what im waiting for. cant remember if its in first or second book though. my memories horrible, especially pinpointing memory.

so far the series seems pretty accurate and if there are any differences its probably just been done to accomodate the different media outlet, being that theres no narrator to explain all the subtleties that text in a book can do, they have to go a different route. but any differences there may have been (i admit i dont watch it looking for differences) theyre not significant enough to actually change anything from the books. 

and if i remember right then khal drogo was a bit rough the first time, but not in a forceful way, if that makes any sense. just his nature. when you lead a dothraki army you just have to be forceful and you take what you want, otherwise you just wont live long.

all in all, great series in both text and film, highly recommended for everybody.

although one complaint and maybe it was just the one scene where they really showed some at length is the sword fighting. when jaime and stark were dueling it just seemed somewhat clunky and as if they werent really trying to dismember each other. seem like that to anybody else?


OMG! yeah thats right, oh my god. finally, Dance with dragons has been released. damn, now i gotta get it and beat you all to the end....if you havent done so already, if so im withholding all gummi bear handouts until i finish.


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## nottie

Olivia said:


> We should have spoiler alerts on this thread! I'm not sure how to do spoilers on this forum. (Must look that up.)
> 
> But definitely, Loras being gay explains why he's so aloof to wimmenz in the books. I thought he was just sort of asexual but gay makes more sense.


I was thinking that. D: There doesn't seem to be a button, and [ block ] tags didn't work..

Yeah.. XD I thought Sansa had just offended him that one time and that was the end of it.



Roland787 said:


> although one complaint and maybe it was just the one scene where they really showed some at length is the sword fighting. when jaime and stark were dueling it just seemed somewhat clunky and as if they werent really trying to dismember each other. seem like that to anybody else?


It was a little clunky, but I saw it as Jaime not being used to fighting to capture.. he seems like a fight to kill man. xD Ned was definitely trying, but he wasn't exactly in his prime. I'll wait for the major fight scenes (which should be coming up shortly!) to judge it.



Roland787 said:


> OMG! yeah thats right, oh my god. finally, Dance with dragons has been released. damn, now i gotta get it and beat you all to the end....if you havent done so already, if so im withholding all gummi bear handouts until i finish.


Jeez you gave me a heart attack! I raced to Amazon to find it wasn't out for another two months.. XDD ah. I thought I was just that oblivious..

I agree wholeheartedly with the rest of your post : )


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## Dark Romantic

I finished the first book, and am waiting for the second one to become available from the library. 

My favorite character? Why, it's got to be Tyrion Lannister, hands down.


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## KINGoftheAMAZONS

Dark Romantic said:


> I finished the first book, and am waiting for the second one to become available from the library.
> 
> My favorite character? Why, it's got to be Tyrion Lannister, hands down.


It's because he's an ENTP like yourself right ;-). But seriously, he's one of my favorite characters as well. Along with Jon Snow and Arya Stark. I'm still on the second book (you'll like Tyrion even more in this book). It's pretty damn good so far.


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## dejavu

I finished A Dance With Dragons recently, and now I gotta wait years for the next book! I've enjoyed the series very much.

Favorite characters? Tyrion, Arya, Brienne and Jaime.


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## Dark Romantic

KINGoftheAMAZONS said:


> It's because he's an ENTP like yourself right ;-). But seriously, he's one of my favorite characters as well. Along with Jon Snow and Arya Stark. I'm still on the second book (you'll like Tyrion even more in this book). It's pretty damn good so far.


That explains why he's so awesome!

On a more serious note, yeah, Jon Snow and Arya are also up there on my list of favorites (I'm particularly interested in what Arya's going to do now that she's trapped in King's Landing); I also completely forgot about how much I like Littlefinger, as well. The man is too clever by half.


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## KINGoftheAMAZONS

Dark Romantic said:


> I also completely forgot about how much I like Littlefinger, as well. The man is too clever by half.


I can't stand Petyr. You're right, he is clever. But the difference between him and Tyrion, is that I think Tyrion has a heart of gold. Lord Baelish, I feel is nothing more than a scumbag. I'm not sure where I stand with Varys yet. He confuses me.


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## Dark Romantic

KINGoftheAMAZONS said:


> I can't stand Petyr. You're right, he is clever. But the difference between him and Tyrion, is that I think Tyrion has a heart of gold. Lord Baelish, I feel is nothing more than a scumbag. I'm not sure where I stand with Varys yet. He confuses me.


Well, so far he seems like the smartest character in the series (well, it's a toss up between him and Varys), and I like fictional characters who also happen to be good schemers, unless they're sufficiently repulsive in other ways. Varys, on the other hand, seems slippery in a way that Littlefinger is not; Littlefinger is slippery in the way that you know he's up to something, and you know not to trust him, but he doesn't seem like he's trying to make you trust him, either. Now, Varys doesn't seem very villainous from what I've seen, but I tend to keep an eye on schemers who appear too trustworthy...


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## dejavu

Dark Romantic said:


> Well, so far he seems like the smartest character in the series (well, it's a toss up between him and Varys), and I like fictional characters who also happen to be good schemers, unless they're sufficiently repulsive in other ways. Varys, on the other hand, seems slippery in a way that Littlefinger is not; Littlefinger is slippery in the way that you know he's up to something, and you know not to trust him, but he doesn't seem like he's trying to make you trust him, either. Now, Varys doesn't seem very villainous from what I've seen, but I tend to keep an eye on schemers who appear too trustworthy...


I've gotta say that I agree. I'm a fan of Littlefinger. I get that he's pretty amoral, but you've got to admire his cleverness, and he's very open about the fact that he can't be trusted. Varys is a bit harder to like. I think some of you guys in this thread have not read as far as I have so I have a bit more knowledge on the characters...don't worry, I won't spoil it. :tongue:


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## KINGoftheAMAZONS

Dark Romantic said:


> Well, so far he seems like the smartest character in the series (well, it's a toss up between him and Varys), and I like fictional characters who also happen to be good schemers, unless they're sufficiently repulsive in other ways. Varys, on the other hand, seems slippery in a way that Littlefinger is not; Littlefinger is slippery in the way that you know he's up to something, and you know not to trust him, but he doesn't seem like he's trying to make you trust him, either. Now, Varys doesn't seem very villainous from what I've seen, but I tend to keep an eye on schemers who appear too trustworthy...


I guess it is true that at least Littlefinger is honest about his dihonesty. I still think that Tyrion is a bit more better at scheming than petyr though, but that could just be personal bias. Also, I'm starting to really like the Hound. Which characters do you hate the most? I can't stand Joffery, Cersei, the Mountain, or Catelyn Stark.


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## Alice_Morgan

I absolutely love Game of Thrones. I'm reading the first book currently, and have seen a few episodes of the show, and I've got to say my favorite characters are Arya, Sansa, Eddard, Jaime, and Sandor.


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## Dark Romantic

KINGoftheAMAZONS said:


> I guess it is true that at least Littlefinger is honest about his dihonesty. I still think that Tyrion is a bit more better at scheming than petyr though, but that could just be personal bias. Also, I'm starting to really like the Hound. Which characters do you hate the most? I can't stand Joffery, Cersei, the Mountain, or Catelyn Stark.


Joffrey is a dick; so is Gregor, and I get the feeling that both are going to be quite a bit worse as the series goes on. Catelyn is... likeable in her own way, but I find myself rooting more for the characters she ends up going against, since they're a lot more interesting. I get the feeling that Cersei is about to get a wake-up call regarding Joffrey; so far, it looks like Joffrey is going to be completely outside her control, which isn't going to make her too happy, I'll wager.


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## KINGoftheAMAZONS

I've already posted this in the INFJ forum, but I'll post it here as well so others have a chance to see it (You can go here to see bigger versions of these pictures "Game of Thrones" The North Remembers (2012) - Full cast and crew):

Brienne of Tarth










Stannis Baratheon & Melisandre










Ser Davos Seaworth 










Balon Greyjoy










Jaqen H'ghar (this is a picture of the guy playing his character. I haven't seen a picture of him in costume though)


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## Perspicacious

I've read all of the asoiaf books, and I was pleasantly surprised by how well HBO handled the adaptation. It may be one of the best and most faithful book to screen adaptations I've ever seen. 

My favorite characters are Varys, Cersei, Asha Greyjoy (I think they're renaming her for the show to prevent confusion with Osha), and everyone in House Martell. I enjoy all of the characters though, they're so very rich and complex.


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## Kwaran

Just finished watching the first season. It's awesome, I don't recall having watched a series in such a short period of time. I was always dissapointed and surprised how fast the end credits started to roll. At first I didn't know the series was based on books, I'm going to pick them up for sure.

Daenerys, Tyrion and Arya are my favourite characters atm.


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## HippoHunter94

I'm planning on reading the books. The lone season that has aired has been one of the best seasons of television in a very long time. It made for great and captivating television. I can't wait for season two.


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## Coldspot

Eddard is by far my favorite, as I can see his actions having a major impact at the end.


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## Dark Romantic

Coldspot said:


> Eddard is by far my favorite, as I can see his actions having a major impact at the end.


Well, _something_ he does has a major impact...


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## floryshe

the show is incredible. the books, even better.


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## 7rr7s

I love the show. I was very hesitant to watch it at first as I'm not really into fantasy and midevil stuff too much, but I was hooked after the first episode. My favorite characters are Jon Snow, Daenerys, and everyone of the Lannisters. oh, and Littlefinger. I just wanted to stand up and applaud at the end of each episode. I haven't seen television like that since Mad Men aired. Excellent show indeed, I can;t wait for Season 2!!!


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## FreeSpirit

Game of THRRRRRRRRRRRONES!!!!!

Still crushing on Tyrion Lannister.


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## V3n0M93

I can't wait for the second season. I hope they handle the Battle of Blackwater better than they did with the Battle of the Green Fork.


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## floryshe

V3n0M93 said:


> I can't wait for the second season. I hope they handle the Battle of Blackwater better than they did with the Battle of the Green Fork.


supposedly they dedicated an entire episode to it.


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## KINGoftheAMAZONS

Trailer for season 2:


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## Alice_Morgan

KINGoftheAMAZONS said:


> Trailer for season 2:


I'll admit, I squealed like a little girl when I first watched this.


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## KINGoftheAMAZONS

Alice_Morgan said:


> I'll admit, I squealed like a little girl when I first watched this.


Me too :wink:


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## Nomen Nescio

All hail Stannis Baratheon, the rightful King of the Seven Kingdoms!


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## dejavu

Nomen Nescio said:


> All hail Stannis Baratheon, the rightful King of the Seven Kingdoms!


Ew, Stannis.


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## Nomen Nescio

dejavu said:


> Ew, Stannis.


Usurper, my King is a True and Just King. Can you say the same for yours?


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## dejavu

Nomen Nescio said:


> Usurper, my King is a True and Just King. Can you say the same for yours?


True he may be, but he has this habit of burning people alive...

It isn't popular with the smallfolk.


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## Coldspot

Nomen Nescio said:


> Usurper, my King is a True and Just King. Can you say the same for yours?


Funny that you call him a usurper when the Baratheons usurped the throne from the Targs. Technically the rightful heir is Dany.


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## Nomen Nescio

It was Robert Baratheon who rose against the mad king, not Stannis. If you had to pick between your king or your brother, what would you have done? Besides, the Targaryens have been ousted from their thrown and stripped of their titles, they have no claim and even if they did, Aegon VI has more right to the throne than his Aunt.



dejavu said:


> True he may be, but he has this habit of burning people alive.


The punishments handed out were equal to the crime. All traitors must die a traitors death.


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## Hruberen

Danaerys is my favorite, followed by Arya Stark, I almost quit reading after the red wedding. I still need to get my hands on a copy of Dance with Dragons...


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## Frosty




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## Paradox1987

Tyrion Lannister and Daenerys Stormborn are probably my joint favourite characters, shortly followed by Arya Stark.


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## aconite

I want April 2 now! NOT LATER BUT NOW! 

Seriously, I can't wait. I liked ACOK even more than AGOT, especially Arya's and Sansa's storylines.


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## Cheveyo

Hruberen said:


> Danaerys is my favorite, followed by Arya Stark, I almost quit reading after the red wedding. I still need to get my hands on a copy of Dance with Dragons...


I was warned beforehand that, unlike other authors, this one isn't afraid of killing off the cool people.


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## aconite

Couldn't resist.


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## Kilgore Trout

I finally, FINALLY, bought the first book. I am addicted!

The second season comes out on April first. I've been waiting too damn long.


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## KINGoftheAMAZONS

Has anyone else watched the first episode of season 2 yet? If you did, did you get the feeling that they accidently played episode 3 instead of an opening episode to start off a brand new season? Or what I mean by that is, for those who read the book, did it seem like episode one started from the middle of book two? To me it kind of felt rushed, as they didn't really set up a firm foundation for the problems that will occur throughout the plot of season 2.


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## Roland Khan

Havent watched any ep of season two yet, wasnt even sure when it was supposed to start actually. Waiting for new computer to come in before I try watching anything. 

Loved the books though....I read em before there was even a show:laughing:

Tyrion is by far, without a doubt, hands down, the best character in the whole thing. Arya is probably next, really cant wait for next book so can see what she's up to again and hope she becomes a bit more of a main character.

Liked Daenyris (sp? been so long since ive read em) quite a bit for a while, but in the last couple books shes just been so indecisive and refuses to actually do anything, so got kinda bored with her.

Wasnt ever crazy about any other Snow kids, other than Jon but thats mainly just because of Ghost 

Crap, forget her name and the family name....the one chic that wanted a Queensmoot. She's one of the Khraken people (I have actually read the books thru twice, even if Im not showin that clearly here, lol)


Despised Jamie for quite a while, especially first couple books, but once he was focused on a little bit more and got to actually see how he is and the father he had to deal with, started to like him a little bit.


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## Cheveyo

KINGoftheAMAZONS said:


> Has anyone else watched the first episode of season 2 yet? If you did, did you get the feeling that they accidently played episode 3 instead of an opening episode to start off a brand new season? Or what I mean by that is, for those who read the book, did it seem like episode one started from the middle of book two? To me it kind of felt rushed, as they didn't really set up a firm foundation for the problems that will occur throughout the plot of season 2.


That could be because HBO is free today, and they didn't feel they should start with something substantial if even the non-paying customers are seeing it.


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## KINGoftheAMAZONS

Cheveyo said:


> That could be because HBO is free today, and they didn't feel they should start with something substantial if even the paying customers are seeing it.


Lol maybe. But I think the first episode should have been at least 2 hours. There were simply too many new characters to introduce in a short 55 minutes.


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## 7rr7s

Season 2 has been pretty decent so far, althought I had to watch the first episode twice to get what was going on, but this may have been because I was a few beers deep the first time I saw it. I can't wait to see what main characters they'll off this season.


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## HippoHunter94

The first couple of episodes of this show have been pretty great. I'm in love with this show. I'm not a big fantasy person, but holy crap is this show is incredible.


----------



## ScientistGirl26

Tyrion Lannister, Arya and Rakharo were my favorite characters in the first season.

I have yet to decide about the second season.


----------



## aconite

The third episode is definitely better than the previous two ones. Brienne looks exactly like I imagined her, I read the books before the first season and she was one of my favourite characters.


----------



## dilletante

It seems like the show follows the books closer than anything I've ever seen, in fact I think I'm just going to watch the show from here on out.


----------



## Vanargand

The books are totally worth reading! The show is great though.


----------



## BeauGarcon

I downloaded all the books in English now; tried to read the books in Dutch but surrendered too fast, guess I didn't like the translation. The English version is a LOT better, too bad I have to read it on the computer...


----------



## KINGoftheAMAZONS

I kind of liked Daenerys in the books, but I can't stand her in Season 2. Or at least not so far. Her, Joffery, and Catelyn (in the books) have to be the most annoying characters in this series.


----------



## HippoHunter94

This season has been fantastic. It's been moving nicely, and Peter Dinklage is killing it this season.


----------



## Mendi the ISFJ

*Game of Thrones Books/Show*

Ive been watching Game of Thrones and i thought we can discuss it on my thread, also I was wondering if anyone has read all the books and how they compare to the show, is it going as expected? Please no spoilers (or at least mark them as spoilers)


----------



## Cheveyo

There's a lot more gratuitous sex in the show. A LOT more.
The show does the books justice, though, even if there's a lot you'll never get to see.


----------



## GROUNDED_ONE

Cheveyo said:


> There's a lot more gratuitous sex in the show. A LOT more.
> The show does the books justice, though, even if there's a lot you'll never get to see.


I have been meaning to catch up on this show! @Cheveyo your avatar makes me giggle


----------



## Nastorm

Haven't read the books but I'm tempted to! It's just so good.


----------



## Mendi the ISFJ

i just saw season 2's finale and i dont know if i can wait til next season  I was really hoping Khal Drogo was real.


----------



## aconite

I'd read books 1-4 before season 1 started, book 5 was published a few months later. In my opinion, GoT is mostly faithful to the books, and most actors are top-notch. Season 2 has more changes than season 1, though, and some weren't justified in my opinion. I'm not bothered by sex and nudity as long as it's relevant to the plot - the books have some explicit sex-scenes too (and the quality of writing is errr... questionable in some). Some characters from the books were cut, or their introduction was moved to next seasons, but I expected that much.

As a Fire&Ice fan, I wasn't disappointed at all - I enjoyed the show very much and I can't wait for season 3


----------



## TimeIsLove

I have the utmost admiration for George R.R. Martin. This series is the best of its type I've ever read, and I can't get enough of it. It embodies everything I'm interested in - love, fighting for a cause, adventure, emotional growth, finding purpose, and the cruel contradictions fate often reveals. Plus, you'd think he was a psychologist the way he can get into the mindset of so many different characters and draw upon their vulnerabilities in dialogue and in action. 

I prefer the books to the show. GRRM has a captivating way of writing so that he enters the action late and leaves it early. He tells you just enough to hint at what's happening, and leaves soon enough so that you can formulate your own conclusions about what happens. We really don't see many full sex scenes in the book for this very reason. He describes them only to a certain extent and then leaves the scene, which makes it better, because you're dying for more and you keep reading. In the show, it's obviously different. HBO likes nudity. I won't completely hate on the show, though. Given the length of the books, you can't possibly include every detail on screen. I think that HBO has done a fantastic job emphasizing the main aspects of the book, and has generally followed the timeline well. I also think that HBO is making Game of Thrones "their own." They have on numerous occasions changed the dialogue between characters, and I thought this was smart. Perhaps it just fit better with those particular actors in those particular settings than the direct quotes from the book would have. The fact that GRRM is also assisting with the show's production only enforces that he probably has a say in what the script looks like.


----------



## Tad Cooper

Mendi the ISFJ said:


> Ive been watching Game of Thrones and i thought we can discuss it on my thread, also I was wondering if anyone has read all the books and how they compare to the show, is it going as expected? Please no spoilers (or at least mark them as spoilers)


I'm the opposite and only read the first book so far, but loved it. How did you find the TV show?


----------



## Mendi the ISFJ

tine said:


> I'm the opposite and only read the first book so far, but loved it. How did you find the TV show?


i love it, cant wait for the next season. Im not a big fan of sci-fi usually and my brother has lots of reasons why he doesnt consider this sci-fi, but to me its the same thing. I love that there are such in depth characters, that they have finally given a little person a main role and that the show leaves you hanging at the end of each episode. I plan on getting the book set for my dad for fathers day because i really think he will like it, though he hasnt seen the show. HBO has been doing some good work lately.


----------



## cubilone

I love the show. Can't bother with the books, they're too long.


----------



## mariogreymist

I have two more episodes of the last season to watch, and have read the first four books (waiting for paperback). My general observation:

They are fairly faithful, and well executed. In recent episodes, the divergence from the books has grown. I personally suspect this is being done to avoid the Red Wedding, and the divergence in season 3 will obviously become great if that is true. The main characters are all there, with some small degree of change from the books (some are more sympathetic, some slightly less) 

All in all, the series is alike enough to not offend, and different enough and intriguing enough to be interesting to, fans of the books.


----------



## Eos_Machai

Bumping this since S3 is on!


----------



## Northcrest

Watched the first two seasons a couple months ago and got hooked. Can't wait to see what's going to happen in season three. So far Tyrion lanaster and Jon Snow are my favorite characters. I hope theres more fighting though. I miss the lack of action.


----------



## KINGoftheAMAZONS

@Northcrest, there wasn't much action on the first episode of season 3. But I have a feeling that season 3 is going to be awesome! My favorite characters are Arya, Tyrion, Jon Snow, Brienne, and the Hound.


----------



## Galaxies

I feel it's the beginning of the end for our favourite characters in a "shit gets real" type of way (excuse my language). I spent the past months telling my sister that "Winter is coming" and though I enjoyed the first episode of season 3, I felt that the second episode was much, much better. I can't wait to see next week's episode. 

My favourite characters are Robb Stark (though, I find his love with Talisa to be very generic), Arya, Jon Snow, all Lannisters, and Margaery Tyrell. My favourite storylines are Arya's and Bran's but, in this season, I'm mostly looking forward to Goffrey's and Robb's.


----------



## Subtle Murder

I'm really glad there hasn't been an overabundance of T&A in these last two episodes. I get that the show is on HBO, so there's some kind of predetermined amount of T&A they have to put into the show, but I find it really detracts from the story, and the story is amazing without it. Very interesting to see the dynamic between Joffrey and Margaery, too. She's playing that boy like a fiddle.


----------



## Aubbs

I am still utterly astonished by the twincest! Not as much by the grossest factor but by the fact Jamie would do anything for her!!! Cerses really messed up the natural twin bond and made it this love thing to get more out of it. Genius and evil, which I adore, but that is utterly rude to do to family... her own twin brother. I could never do that to my family...ever. For anyone reading the books or behind on the TV show I won't spoil anything but I can't wait for everything to hit the fan... Oh yeah, favorite characters are: Tyrion, Snow, Jamie, Robb, Arya and Danaryrs. And lastly what I cannot wait for/hope for is the meeting between the Red/Fire Lady (forgot her name) and Danaryrs because I am wondering what would happen. My theory is that she would follow Danaryrs because she cannot be killed by fire and fire is the purest of death... and see her as a goddess.


----------



## an absurd man

My favorite characters all this time have been Baelish and Tyrion, but oh my god, now there's Margaery Tyrell who's just as cunning if not better than them at the game. Plus she's so damn graceful, powerful, and hawt! :blushed:




La Petite Sirène said:


> Very interesting to see the dynamic between Joffrey and Margaery, too. She's playing that boy like a fiddle.


Agreed; that was probably my favorite scene of 3x02 because it seems she's the first one to have been able to seduce Joffrey and it looks like she'll be able to play him against Cersei. Can't wait to see what her plans are and what she's really about.


----------



## Abraxas




----------



## ThatOneWeirdGuy

Watched season 1 and 2 and the first few episodes of 3 and just finished the first book. Awesome fucking work of fiction, despite the sexual perversions. I'm guessing this was written by a middle-aged man. But, right now I'm rooting for Tyrion, Arya and especially Daenerys. That chick is badass. I hope she's not really trading one of her dragons though. D:

OH, and Margaery. She is beyond interesting. And Snow, I like an underdog. (although he's not that much of one in the books)


----------



## boblikesoup

Galaxies said:


> My favourite characters are Robb Stark (though, I find his love with Talisa to be very generic), Arya, Jon Snow, all Lannisters, and Margaery Tyrell. My favourite storylines are Arya's and Bran's but, in this season, I'm mostly looking forward to Goffrey's and Robb's.


Excuse me, but Bran's story line sucked last season and everyone knows ot.




Shouldn't have read all the books before they made a show of it... enjoy your speculation everyone.


----------



## refugee

The last scene from the last episode really shocked me. It's the only show that's remotely entertaining right now. Well, at least I have Breaking Bad's last season to look forward to.


----------



## Galaxies

boblikesoup said:


> Excuse me, but Bran's story line sucked last season and everyone knows ot.
> 
> 
> Shouldn't have read all the books before they made a show of it... enjoy your speculation everyone.


I'm the only one who really enjoyed it. I mean there was more to it than meets the eye so it was nice to come up with a list of possibilites as to what could possibly happen to him, what his fate was in the grand scheme of it.


----------



## boblikesoup

Galaxies said:


> I'm the only one who really enjoyed it. I mean there was more to it than meets the eye so it was nice to come up with a list of possibilites as to what could possibly happen to him, what his fate was in the grand scheme of it.


Ah you're an INFP; that makes total sense.


----------



## Kilgore Trout

Brief thoughts from this recent episode *(spoilers below, avoid eye-contact if you haven't seen the episode yet)*: 






I've never felt more pity for Jaime Lannister than in this episode. For a sister-humping charmer who killed the Mad King and pushed a boy out of a window, just watching him with a hand dangling around his wrist is sad. I love how for all the rotten things he's done, I still feel he's a decent fellow. He's more good than he tries to appear to be to others. Theon is experiencing hell. That whole scene with Mormont was wild and tragic, but when you're starving in frigid temperatures, you don't want to listen to some "godly man" telling you about all the sons he would have had if he didn't kill them while you're eating sawdust. Still, I never expected that to happen. The cult/religion of the god of light seems to be catching on. I wonder how the Hound will fare with fighting Robin Hood and his Merry Men. Denerys Targaryen has developed into a true epic Targaryen leader throughout the series. I had a flash-back of Walter White when I saw the flames behind her head. She has so much potential to be a strong moral leader; I like how all her encounters with rotten people have ceased to change her principles. If anything, her conviction grows stronger with every near hopeless situation.


----------



## KINGoftheAMAZONS

Kilgore Trout said:


> Brief thoughts from this recent episode *(spoilers below, avoid eye-contact if you haven't seen the episode yet)*:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've never felt more pity for Jaime Lannister than in this episode. For a sister-humping charmer who killed the Mad King and pushed a boy out of a window, just watching him with a hand dangling around his wrist is sad. I love how for all the rotten things he's done, I still feel he's a decent fellow. He's more good than he tries to appear to be to others. Theon is experiencing hell. That whole scene with Mormont was wild and tragic, but when you're starving in frigid temperatures, you don't want to listen to some "godly man" telling you about all the sons he would have had if he didn't kill them while you're eating sawdust. Still, I never expected that to happen. The cult/religion of the god of light seems to be catching on. I wonder how the Hound will fare with fighting Robin Hood and his Merry Men. Denerys Targaryen has developed into a true epic Targaryen leader throughout the series. I had a flash-back of Walter White when I saw the flames behind her head. She has so much potential to be a strong moral leader; I like how all her encounters with rotten people have ceased to change her principles. If anything, her conviction grows stronger with every near hopeless situation.


Yes for once Danerys isn't annoying the hell out of me. She's actually starting to use her head, and I like that very much! And the part with Theon impressed me because allowing him to "escape" only to trick him into going back to the very castle where he was being abused, was truly an example of psychological torture. This episode was definitely much better than the other ones.


----------



## Subtle Murder

Kilgore Trout said:


> Brief thoughts from this recent episode *(spoilers below, avoid eye-contact if you haven't seen the episode yet)*:
> 
> I've never felt more pity for Jaime Lannister than in this episode. For a sister-humping charmer who killed the Mad King and pushed a boy out of a window, just watching him with a hand dangling around his wrist is sad. I love how for all the rotten things he's done, I still feel he's a decent fellow. He's more good than he tries to appear to be to others. Theon is experiencing hell. That whole scene with Mormont was wild and tragic, but when you're starving in frigid temperatures, you don't want to listen to some "godly man" telling you about all the sons he would have had if he didn't kill them while you're eating sawdust. Still, I never expected that to happen. The cult/religion of the god of light seems to be catching on. I wonder how the Hound will fare with fighting Robin Hood and his Merry Men. Denerys Targaryen has developed into a true epic Targaryen leader throughout the series. I had a flash-back of Walter White when I saw the flames behind her head. She has so much potential to be a strong moral leader; I like how all her encounters with rotten people have ceased to change her principles. If anything, her conviction grows stronger with every near hopeless situation.


Jaime has always been a really interesting character. I've never been able to hate him, and this episode proved why - he was shown for exactly what he is, a pathetic human being (which is not a derogatory comment). I can't feel anything but pity for him. 

I've never liked Theon, which is funny because I _can _feel pity for Jaime despite how horrible he is on the surface, but I've never been able to muster the same for Theon. Perhaps because he wallows in his patheticness...? I'm not entirely sure. Nonetheless, this recent episode made me want to hurt things for him. That little speech he gave about choices before being led back into the chamber?   Broke my heart. Poor kid. I'm really glad the show is adding new dimensions to the characters, because there's nothing redeeming about Theonin the books (as far as I've read up to, anyway). 

Speaking of the show adding new dimensions - Daenerys. Whoa. The last five mins of this episode? Consider my mind blown. I literally stood up and screamed "HELL YES!!". It's not that she's dislikeable in the books, but she's such a Mary Sue kind of character, and it makes it hard to relate to her. The show has rendered her a more fully realised version of what Martin was trying to achieve in the books, and she's slowly becoming one of my favourite characters (alongside Tyrion. So much love for Tyrion). 

Absolutely cannot wait to see how the rest of the season translates from book to screen.  Can't. Wait.


----------



## KINGoftheAMAZONS

La Petite Sirène said:


> Speaking of the show adding new dimensions - Daenerys. Whoa. The last five mins of this episode? Consider my mind blown. I literally stood up and screamed "HELL YES!!".


OMG! Me too!!!! I screamed out the exact same words. Even though I had a hunch that she knew what the slave master was saying the entire time, and that she would have the dragon burn him, my heart still fluttered when it happened. And I think it's because for the first time, I'm able to honestly say that "this" is a queen Daenerys that I would follow into battle. I've only gotten through half of the 3rd book (and that was a year ago), but I secretly hope that Brienne somehow finds her way into being a knight for Daenerys. Then I could die a very happy woman.


----------



## Orchidion

Just finished watching the recent Game of Thrones episode. All in all quite satisfying.

Daenerys plan was quite obvious in my opinon but still impressively conducted. I am wondering what will her next move be. Perhaps she will be playing for the thrones as well in near future. The story line concerning Sansa bores me in the moment. Basically she´s one of the most tedious characters in the show. I hope Tyrion gets more airline and his story develops further in the next expisodes. Same goes for Arya. Jon Snows storyline seems not very credible at the moment. But anyway...


Has anyone read the original books? Could you recommend them? I heard mixed reviews.


----------



## Labyrithine

I knew what Daenerys was up to the second she gave up her dragon without much thought. It was the moment I was waiting for the entire episode, but I didn't think it was going to be this good. She's evolved into what a queen and leader ought to be, the Mother of Dragons. She's proven to be compassionate and harbor a strategic mind. I didn't think it would top the last week's episode, but it did. Epic ending.

I also can't help but to sympathize with what Jaime's going through. Deep down I know he had this coming, but it's like his identity's been stripped from him as a result. I'm also in pain for Theon. He's in a very bad place.


----------



## Psychosmurf

Eos_Machai said:


> Didn't like that Rob lost _half_ his army. That sounds too much. How can one leige lord, albeit a major one, possess half the forces of the North _and_ The Riverlands?


It could just be that the writers fucked up, but it's also possible that the North didn't send in literally every last soldier they had. A good portion of them must have stayed behind in each holding to defend, while Robb and the other dude used only their personal levies to fight Tywin.


----------



## Psychosmurf

Oh yeah, I don't know if anybody else caught this, but it seems that Tywin's decision to marry Sansa and Tyrion implies that he plans to kill Robb Stark if he captures him (also Bran and his borther, but Tywin doesn't know that they're still alive).


----------



## Coldspot

Psychosmurf said:


> Oh yeah, I don't know if anybody else caught this, but it seems that Tywin's decision to marry Sansa and Tyrion implies that he plans to kill Robb Stark if he captures him (also Bran and his borther, but Tywin doesn't know that they're still alive).


Usually one commander dies to another's army, like Robert killing Rhaegar at the Trident.


----------



## bombsaway

Psychosmurf said:


> Oh yeah, I don't know if anybody else caught this, but it seems that Tywin's decision to marry Sansa and Tyrion implies that he plans to kill Robb Stark if he captures him (also Bran and his borther, but Tywin doesn't know that they're still alive).


Yeah, of course. Why would he let him live? He's basically committed treason by starting a rebellion. Not to mention the fact that, as far as Tywin's concerned, the Starks have held both of his sons captive at different points. 

Plus, once Robb's out of the way and Sansa is a Lannister, there is no more threat from the North and his grandson (or more likely he himself) can keep control. Good times all round for him if Robb dies!


----------



## Subtle Murder

OK so...


* *




...the guy who is torturing Theon? I NEED TO KNOW WHO THIS IS! But also, I don't want to be spoiled. I am trying to think back on the books and figure it out, but I don't recall this character in the 3rd book. Also, I am only on page 100-something of the 4th book, so I'm not even sure he's been introduced as yet. 

Iwan Rheon does crazy SO WELL.


----------



## Psychosmurf

Littlefinger's speech. 'Nuff said.


----------



## Galaxies

La Petite Sirène said:


> OK so...
> 
> 
> * *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...the guy who is torturing Theon? I NEED TO KNOW WHO THIS IS! But also, I don't want to be spoiled. I am trying to think back on the books and figure it out, but I don't recall this character in the 3rd book. Also, I am only on page 100-something of the 4th book, so I'm not even sure he's been introduced as yet.
> 
> Iwan Rheon does crazy SO WELL.



Yeah, Iwan is freaking fantastic.


He's only referred to as "boy" in the Wikia pages. I know what happens and I'll just say that, though the character hasn't been introduced in the tv show, his house has been.

Gosh, this episode! Roose Bolton, where to start? There's definitely more to his storyline, I just hope they don't stray from the books.


* *




As much as I like the Starks, esp. King of the North, the red wedding had better happen. I actually can't wait for it to happen... seems that they're following the books so far.


----------



## Subtle Murder

Galaxies said:


> Yeah, Iwan is freaking fantastic.
> 
> He's only referred to as "boy" in the Wikia pages. I know what happens and I'll just say that, though the character hasn't been introduced in the tv show, his house has been.
> 
> Gosh, this episode! Roose Bolton, where to start? There's definitely more to his storyline, I just hope they don't stray from the books.
> 
> 
> * *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As much as I like the Starks, esp. King of the North, the red wedding had better happen. I actually can't wait for it to happen... seems that they're following the books so far.


Was this character featured in the books at this time also, or is this something they've done purely for the TV show so that they don't have to introduce him later and confuse some other storylines? I'm trying to think back on Theon's chapters in the third book and I honestly don't recall this character. Then again, I'm not a huge Theon fan. I kind of just skimmed through most of his chapters. ;( 


* *




I definitely think the Red Wedding will happen. I just don't think it will happen in this series. My guess is that they're going to end this season when Robb and Catelyn go to see Walder Frey. And then the next season will feature the Red Wedding.  I thought perhaps they would end the 4th season with it, but there's not much that happens between the Frey incident and the RW, and also it's most likely they will end the 4th season with Tywin and Tyrion. So much epicness to come!


----------



## Coldspot

La Petite Sirène said:


> Was this character featured in the books at this time also, or is this something they've done purely for the TV show so that they don't have to introduce him later and confuse some other storylines? I'm trying to think back on Theon's chapters in the third book and I honestly don't recall this character. Then again, I'm not a huge Theon fan. I kind of just skimmed through most of his chapters. ;(


Neither Theon nor his captor were featured in SoS or FfC. The torture scenes are for the show. They are mentioned in SoS though, so the clues are there.


----------



## Subtle Murder

Coldspot said:


> Neither Theon nor his captor were featured in SoS or FfC. The torture scenes are for the show. They are mentioned in SoS though, so the clues are there.


Yup, that's what I meant. And I still can't recall.


----------



## Galaxies

La Petite Sirène said:


> * *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I definitely think the Red Wedding will happen. I just don't think it will happen in this series. My guess is that they're going to end this season when Robb and Catelyn go to see Walder Frey. And then the next season will feature the Red Wedding.  I thought perhaps they would end the 4th season with it, but there's not much that happens between the Frey incident and the RW, and also it's most likely they will end the 4th season with Tywin and Tyrion. So much epicness to come!


I know! I am so ambivalent about the season finale since I don't want it to end but I really want the events to happen. Also, I don't want them to end on a cliff-hanger, I can't wait a year for another season.


----------



## Mostly Harmless

Galaxies said:


> I know! I am so ambivalent about the season finale since I don't want it to end but I really want the events to happen. Also, I don't want them to end on a cliff-hanger, I can't wait a year for another season.



* *




I'm positive Red Wedding is going to happen in the 9th episode of the current season. It's called The Rains of Castamere!!! That has GOT to be the RW episode. 

And then we'll get Joffrey's wedding next season.


----------



## Subtle Murder

Mostly Harmless said:


> * *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm positive Red Wedding is going to happen in the 9th episode of the current season. It's called The Rains of Castamere!!! That has GOT to be the RW episode.
> 
> And then we'll get Joffrey's wedding next season.



* *




Oh dude, the RW is the shit that goes down at the Frey's? Why on earth did I think RW referred to Joffrey's wedding? *facepalms* (details? what are details? ) We're def gonna get the RW this season. It'll be Joff's wedding next season, and the whole Tywin and Tyrion thing that ends it. 



@Galaxies - this is why I am glad I'm only a quarter of the way through book 4. Still got something to keep me going in the in-between. :3


----------



## Bipedal P 314

Mostly Harmless said:


> * *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm positive Red Wedding is going to happen in the 9th episode of the current season. It's called The Rains of Castamere!!! That has GOT to be the RW episode.
> 
> And then we'll get Joffrey's wedding next season.



* *




Joffrey's going to survive that long? God damn it.


----------



## Jetsune Lobos

* *




Why the hell did they have to remove all of the sextings from the television version? Dragonborne chicks riding cowgirl on Genghis Khan is what made the damn things readable in the first place. And I wish they'd used _actual_ wolves too instead of fucking german shepherds painted like huskies for the main character's companions. Just makes it that less riveting when a soldier is screaming for his mother's teat as his arm is ripped off by Lassie. And speaking of which what the fluck is up with The Hound? I'm expecting a goddamn medieval Freddy Krueger and they hand us a humanized Lieutenant Worf with a cigarette burn.

To be honest the disappointment of the end-product could only be anticipated when siphoning this epic fantasy through the mediocum medium that is modern television. I'll come back to this post after I've watched more than one episode of this drivel, and only then to regurgitate whatever I'm forced to choke down next.


----------



## Bipedal P 314

Zippy BawBaw said:


> * *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why the hell did they have to remove all of the sextings from the television version? Dragonborne chicks riding cowgirl on Genghis Khan is what made the damn things readable in the first place. And I wish they'd used _actual_ wolves too instead of fucking german shepherds painted like huskies for the main character's companions. Just makes it that less riveting when a soldier is screaming for his mother's teat as his arm is ripped off by Lassie. And speaking of which what the fluck is up with The Hound? I'm expecting a goddamn medieval Freddy Krueger and they hand us a humanized Lieutenant Worf with a cigarette burn.
> 
> To be honest the disappointment of the end-product could only be anticipated when siphoning this epic fantasy through the mediocum medium that is modern television. I'll come back to this post after I've watched more than one episode of this drivel, and only then to regurgitate whatever I'm forced to choke down next.


Lassie was a collie.
You can't ever trust a wolf - there's a reason why they bred aggression out of wolves to make them dogs.

Nothing you've mentioned commented on the substance of the show, only the most superficial aspects of it. If that's all you have to complain about I'd say don't watch it again, that way you don't have to 'review' it again.


----------



## Wartime Consigliere

I actually don't mind seeing Joffrey's scenes lately.. Seeing Margaery run circles around him and Tywin's approach to disciplining him has been rather enjoyable. 

Locke is hilarious too. I love how absurdly entertaining he is.

Daenerys is looking like more and more of a goddess with each passing episode. Still hold the seemingly unpopular opinion that Talissa is hotter though.


----------



## Subtle Murder

I am loving the awkward tension between Sansa and Tyrion. Oh lord, please let them play it up (i.e. more scenes together, instead of separate scenes where they discuss how awkward it's going to be).


----------



## Psychosmurf

* *




"Then you'll be fucking your own bride, with a wooden cock."

"What did you say?.... What. Did you. SAY!?"




Best moment of the season.


----------



## zerocrossing

Mostly Harmless said:


> * *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm positive Red Wedding is going to happen in the 9th episode of the current season. It's called The Rains of Castamere!!! That has GOT to be the RW episode.
> 
> And then we'll get Joffrey's wedding next season.


Book fan talk about the TV series...


* *




The Rains of Castamere! This week! And yes, I'm convinced, too, that it will be the RW. There's no mystery about the meaning of that song... or when it's played. BTW, I think Episode 9 should end with the ax, not the knife.

And yeah, Joffrey's wedding should be next season... maybe mid-season? Gotta get some characters back to Kings Landing first. I think the 4th season should end with a crossbow.


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## Mostly Harmless

zerocrossing said:


> * *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, I think Episode 9 should end with the ax, not the knife.



* *




YES. I remember skipping ahead to see if Arya was still alive or not! Hahaha.
Episode 9 is usually the peak in terms of plot each season. We're probably going to get to see whether or not Tywin Lannister actually shits gold in s4e9 ... but that's a while away.


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## zerocrossing

Mostly Harmless said:


> * *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> YES. I remember skipping ahead to see if Arya was still alive or not! Hahaha.
> Episode 9 is usually the peak in terms of plot each season. We're probably going to get to see whether or not Tywin Lannister actually shits gold in s4e9 ... but that's a while away.



* *




I don't remember if I peeked. I never ever ever EVER peek. But I might have peeked for Arya! I just want the TV fans to get a little bit of what we experienced. So yes... the ax.  

Oh LOL about Tywin. That is one of the funniest lines in the books.


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## KINGoftheAMAZONS

Holy hell!!!! :shocked: OMG!!! I can't believe what I just saw on tonight's episode. I'm going to go and cry in my room now :crying:. I can't believe it. Red wedding indeed...


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## Roland Khan

I remember almost coming to tears when I first read it a few years back. All I can say is that George better make up for this shit with Daenerys....can't fucking wait for the next book.


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## Psychosmurf

Reminds me of Hamlet.


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## Roland Khan

If Daenerys doesn't end the series on the throne, something has seriously gone awry. Her and Tyrion are the only two serious characters that shall not die....and if either of them do, George can go fuck a goat.


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## zerocrossing

KINGoftheAMAZONS said:


> Holy hell!!!! :shocked: OMG!!! I can't believe what I just saw on tonight's episode. I'm going to go and cry in my room now :crying:. I can't believe it. Red wedding indeed...


Welcome to our world.  Now you know why we were all hush-hush off in spoiler tags.

It's probably not any consolation, but Martin _did_ at least have a hard time writing it. He wrote the whole book _around_ the Red Wedding and then came back to write the events in tonight's episode last. He let somebody else write the TV episode.



Roland787 said:


> I remember almost coming to tears when I first read it a few years back. All I can say is that George better make up for this shit with Daenerys....can't fucking wait for the next book.


After getting to the RW, I almost threw my Kindle across the room and nearly stopped reading... but mainly because I thought Martin jumped the shark by bringing Arya to the Twins at the precise moment that everything happens. I picked the book back up that night, though, and read into the wee hours... hoping against hope that Martin was going to do _something_ to make up for the Red Wedding. And then when he did, he took it right away! And then he gave it back! And then he took it away again! Maybe the TV show won't seesaw as much as the book did.

I hear you on Daenerys. I suspect we will follow her East in the next book.


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## Roland Khan

I absolutely love the fact that George as an author, is willing to kill off ''major'' characters. To me, it adds a depth to the series that is not found in pretty much any other series. However, all I can say with any confidence is if he at all destroys Daenerys, I will lose all appreciation/respect for the series....keep Daenerys alive and kicking, and I shall continue to appreciate the series for what it is; I also really like dragons.


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## KINGoftheAMAZONS

Roland787 said:


> I absolutely love the fact that George as an author, is willing to kill off ''major'' characters. To me, it adds a depth to the series that is not found in pretty much any other series. However, all I can say with any confidence is if he at all destroys Daenerys, I will lose all appreciation/respect for the series....keep Daenerys alive and kicking, and I shall continue to appreciate the series for what it is; I also really like dragons.


All I ask is that Tyrion, Arya, and Daenerys be allowed to live.


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## Randroth

"Game of Thrones drinking game: drink until it doesn't hurt anymore."


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## Bipedal P 314

Roland787 said:


> I absolutely love the fact that George as an author, is willing to kill off ''major'' characters. To me, it adds a depth to the series that is not found in pretty much any other series. However, all I can say with any confidence is if he at all destroys Daenerys, I will lose all appreciation/respect for the series....keep Daenerys alive and kicking, and I shall continue to appreciate the series for what it is; I also really like dragons.


Kill anyone, please, just not the person I like! - Did I translate that right?


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## Psychosmurf

What the hell? Am I the only one who's actually rooting for team Lannister? 

Face it. Robb Stark was simply too impulsive to be a king. One does not simply balk an oath made to one powerful lord and then execute another one. 
Long live King Joffrey! Long live Tywin Lannister! :angry:


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## zerocrossing

This week's episode was called "The Rains of Castamere." Here are the lyrics to that song:

And who are you, the proud lord said, 
that I must bow so low? 
Only a cat of a different coat, 
that's all the truth I know. 
In a coat of gold or a coat of red, 
a lion still has claws, 
And mine are long and sharp, my lord, 
as long and sharp as yours. 
And so he spoke, and so he spoke, 
that lord of Castamere, 
But now the rains weep o'er his hall, 
with no one there to hear. 
Yes now the rains weep o'er his hall, 
and not a soul to hear.


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## KINGoftheAMAZONS

Psychosmurf said:


> What the hell? Am I the only one who's actually rooting for team Lannister?
> 
> Face it. Robb Stark was simply too impulsive to be a king. One does not simply balk an oath made to one powerful lord and then execute another one.
> Long live King Joffrey! Long live Tywin Lannister! :angry:


Fuck Joffrey! He's a whiny little shit. But I must admit that I quite admire Tywin Lannister's strategic genius . I think I even have a little crush on him lol. And yeah, Robb was a complete dumbass. If for anything because he lacked the strategic capabilities of any of the main Lannisters, or even Roose Bolton and Lord Frey. He was very politically unaware for a high-born that was being groomed to become the Lord of Winterfell. But considering who his father was...


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## Tao Te Ching

Harsh, whoa.


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## Galaxies

I'm getting bored of Daenerys' scenes, I just find them to be predictable.

It was a very good episode that I'll probably go back to watch again and again; all about the Starks' _almost _being reunited. I was waiting for signs of deaths to come during the wedding and the scene in which the big door is closed and Catelyn becomes suspicious give me chills. The killings were done well until Catelyn's throat was so casually slit.



* *




is Joffrey dying in the next episode? Or does his death not warrant the season finale?


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## Subtle Murder

Y'know, I read Storm of Swords at some point last year, so I already knew what was coming. I just... I can't get over how much feels this episode gave me. It was too epic for words. I feel jubilation at the fact the scene went down exactly how I pictured it in my head (minus the bit about his wife, coz she wasn't even there in the books) and that it made me feel exactly how I felt when I first read it (I was reading the book at work and had tears in my eyes and was trying so hard not to scream and throw the book across the shop). But at the same time - HOLY HELL. That was brutal. Absolutely brutal. I'm still processing...


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## Wartime Consigliere

Hell yeah. Tywin's more boss than ever.

Now for him to discipline Joffrey....

Edit: AND, cannot wait to see his reaction to Jaime's cut-off hand!


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## Praying Mantis

zerocrossing said:


> This week's episode was called "The Rains of Castamere." Here are the lyrics to that song:
> 
> And who are you, the proud lord said,
> that I must bow so low?
> Only a cat of a different coat,
> that's all the truth I know.
> In a coat of gold or a coat of red,
> a lion still has claws,
> And mine are long and sharp, my lord,
> as long and sharp as yours.
> And so he spoke, and so he spoke,
> that lord of Castamere,
> But now the rains weep o'er his hall,
> with no one there to hear.
> Yes now the rains weep o'er his hall,
> and not a soul to hear.


God, I remember when that song was sung in the credits of the 2nd season's finale (what's the name of Tyrion's hired hand?). After all that one hour of intensity.

* *




The whole bttale and its calm before the storm, and Cersei's suicidal attempt of both her and her child's life



Damn, that song. I don't care if it was sung by a guy who's had too many drinks. After being at the edge of my seat for who knows how long.


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## Roland Khan

BiPedalP314 said:


> Kill anyone, please, just not the person I like! - Did I translate that right?


Pretty much :kitteh:


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## Roland Khan

Master Wolf said:


> dont forget snow, bran, little finger and arya!!


Only one of those that I am actually considerate of is Arya. Little Finger is actually one of the characters that I want dead more than anybody else...I find him to be a very despicable person. Jon Snow I like, but I wouldn't be that troubled if he died. Bran is also a likeable character and I don't want him to die and would actually very much appreciate him staying alive, but if George decided to kill him off I don't believe I would be troubled by it. 

Daenerys is really the only character that I truly believe in and would be devastated if she died. Well, her and Tyrion. To me, those two are the only ones worth real respect. Except for Eddard of course...


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## Cantarella

zerocrossing said:


> Perhaps all NTs are Lannisters, but not all NTs are Tywin or Cersei Lannister (or Joffrey "Baratheon" Lannister). (BTW, I'm talking Book Lannisters, not TV Lannisters because Book Lannisters are my primary frame of reference. The TV show practically makes Tywin and Cersei soft and cuddly... and does not delve nearly as far into Joffrey's insanity as the books do).
> 
> As an ENTP, I am closest to _ Tyrion_ Lannister - and, like Tyrion, I have very little respect or sympathy for the sociopaths in the family. And like Tyrion, I despise Lord Tywin.
> 
> Yes, like any NT, I intellectually admire Tywin's strategic brilliance, but that is all I admire about him. And like any NT, I have pretty much nothing but contempt for Catelyn Stark's strategic blunders.
> 
> But none of that puts me in "Team Lannister," if "Team Lannister" is to be defined as supporting Tywin's and Cersei's aims. The closest I get is "Team Tyrion."


:/ Well I was mostly making a joke, sorry it annoyed you. For the record Tyion and Tywin are the only obvious NTs in the family, the rest of the Lannisters probably being sensors. >.>


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## Psychosmurf

Roland787 said:


> Only one of those that I am actually considerate of is Arya. * Little Finger is actually one of the characters that I want dead more than anybody else...I find him to be a very despicable person.* Jon Snow I like, but I wouldn't be that troubled if he died. Bran is also a likeable character and I don't want him to die and would actually very much appreciate him staying alive, but if George decided to kill him off I don't believe I would be troubled by it.
> 
> *Daenerys is really the only character that I truly believe in and would be devastated if she died.* Well, her *and Tyrion.* To me, those two are the only ones worth real respect. Except for Eddard of course...


Funny. These are my top three favorite characters (Littlefinger at the top, and then I can't decide whether I like Daenerys or Tyrion more), but I don't understand all the hate that Littlefinger gets.


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## zerocrossing

Cantarella said:


> :/ Well I was mostly making a joke, sorry it annoyed you. For the record Tyion and Tywin are the only obvious NTs in the family, the rest of the Lannisters probably being sensors. >.>


No worries. I'm just sorta "I'm supposed to support Tywin Lannister?!?!?" LOL. But yeah, if _HBO!Tywin_ were my only frame of reference, I wouldn't have nearly the same issues with Tywin that I have from starting out with the books. I will say that Charles Dance is amazing in the part.

And yeah, Tyrion and Tywin are the NTs in the family... but they use opposite functions. That's probably why they get along so well. 



Psychosmurf said:


> Funny. These are my top three favorite characters (Littlefinger at the top, and then I can't decide whether I like Daenerys or Tyrion more), but I don't understand all the hate that Littlefinger gets.


Littlefinger creeps me out in the books, but I admire his strategic mind and confess to having a bit of a weakness for him. Now, if we can only figure out what his game is!

Why does Littlefinger get all the hate he gets? Well, remember that the TV audience is comprised of book fans and TV-only fans. Littlefinger in the books is probably the most truly frightening person in Westeros. He plays the game superbly, but nobody knows what his endgame actually is. He is an unnerving character. Some Littlefinger hate is coming from people who hate him from the books.

The reason for Littlefinger hate among TV-only fans is less obvious to me. I mean, he gets some of the best lines (or rather, speeches) in the series, and Aiden Gillen plays him brilliantly. (Love his scenes with Varys). Probably the most seriously messed up things Littlefinger has done in the show (aside from treating women like chattel) are to betray Ned and give Ros to Joffrey. But the reasons for both actions are pretty logical given the framework from which he is operating. His game is less opaque in the show (it's obviously, somehow, all about Catelyn), but I'm not sure if we are getting hints from the show about the game he's playing in the books or if the show is just taking us on an easier-to-comprehend path.

One thing that cracked me up, by the way, was in that s2 scene with Tyrion, when Tyrion is giving three different marriage trajectories for Myrcella to his three suspected spies, Aiden Gillen suddenly lets his accent slip, and we hear a bit of his natural Irish speech... right there in the middle of a scene between Tyrion and Littlefinger. That was great!


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## Cantarella

zerocrossing said:


> No worries. I'm just sorta "I'm supposed to support Tywin Lannister?!?!?" LOL. But yeah, if _HBO!Tywin_ were my only frame of reference, I wouldn't have nearly the same issues with Tywin that I have from starting out with the books. I will say that Charles Dance is amazing in the part.
> 
> And yeah, Tyrion and Tywin are the NTs in the family... but they use opposite functions. That's probably why they get along so well.
> 
> 
> 
> Littlefinger creeps me out in the books, but I admire his strategic mind and confess to having a bit of a weakness for him. Now, if we can only figure out what his game is!
> 
> Why does Littlefinger get all the hate he gets? Well, remember that the TV audience is comprised of book fans and TV-only fans. Littlefinger in the books is probably the most truly frightening person in Westeros. He plays the game superbly, but nobody knows what his endgame actually is. He is an unnerving character. Some Littlefinger hate is coming from people who hate him from the books.
> 
> The reason for Littlefinger hate among TV-only fans is less obvious to me. I mean, he gets some of the best lines (or rather, speeches) in the series, and Aiden Gillen plays him brilliantly. (Love his scenes with Varys). Probably the most seriously messed up things Littlefinger has done in the show (aside from treating women like chattel) are to betray Ned and give Ros to Joffrey. But the reasons for both actions are pretty logical given the framework from which he is operating. His game is less opaque in the show (it's obviously, somehow, all about Catelyn), but I'm not sure if we are getting hints from the show about the game he's playing in the books or if the show is just taking us on an easier-to-comprehend path.
> 
> One thing that cracked me up, by the way, was in that s2 scene with Tyrion, when Tyrion is giving three different marriage trajectories for Myrcella to his three suspected spies, Aiden Gillen suddenly lets his accent slip, and we hear a bit of his natural Irish speech... right there in the middle of a scene between Tyrion and Littlefinger. That was great!


Yeah, and their confrontations are always great fun to witness.

Speaking as somebody who totally hates Littlefinger, his actions may be logical but I don't think that makes them any less repulsive to many people. Yes, he has some really good lines, but the man still makes my skin crawl.


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## zerocrossing

Cantarella said:


> Yeah, and their confrontations are always great fun to witness.
> 
> Speaking as somebody who totally hates Littlefinger, his actions may be logical but I don't think that makes them any less repulsive to many people. Yes, he has some really good lines, but the man still makes my skin crawl.


Oh, he makes my skin crawl too. My tert-Fe pops in every now and then and says, "Wait, you can't treat people that way!" But your Fe is much higher than mine, and my aux-Ti enjoys him... from a safe distance. I would hate, though, to get caught in one of his intrigues. 

I have a hard time scaling Littlefinger in the series because I know him from the books. I'm just curious...

Would TV-only fans say there are any limits to what Littlefinger is willing to do in order to achieve his objectives or that there are no limits to what he is willing to do? In other words, if his beloved Catelyn were in the way of his objectives, would he willingly slit her throat?


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## Psychosmurf

zerocrossing said:


> Would TV-only fans say there are any limits to what Littlefinger is willing to do in order to achieve his objectives or that there are no limits to what he is willing to do? In other words, if his beloved Catelyn were in the way his objectives, would he willingly slit her throat?


No, yes, and yes.


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## Cantarella

zerocrossing said:


> Oh, he makes my skin crawl too. My tert-Fe pops in every now and then and says, "Wait, you can't treat people that way!" But your Fe is much higher than mine, and my aux-Ti enjoys him... from a safe distance. I would hate, though, to get caught in one of his intrigues.
> 
> I have a hard time scaling Littlefinger in the series because I know him from the books. I'm just curious...
> 
> Would TV-only fans say there are any limits to what Littlefinger is willing to do in order to achieve his objectives or that there are no limits to what he is willing to do? In other words, if his beloved Catelyn were in the way of his objectives, would he willingly slit her throat?


I agree with Psychosmurf. I don't think he really cares enough about anyone to let them hold him back from getting what he wants. Crazy bastard, lol. Then again I guess he did warn Ned not to trust him. But seriously, selling Ros...  I was really hoping that Varys would find a way to have him killed at one point, but I'm not sure Varys would actually consider that in his own best interest unless he perceived him as being a bigger threat. A huge part of Littlefinger's advantage is the fact that everyone underestimates him because he lets them.


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## zerocrossing

@_Psychosmurf_ and @_Cantarella_ - I agree with you that there are no limits to what Littlefinger is willing to do (though I wouldn't call him a "crazy" bastard. He's perfectly sane, I think  ). I'm glad that this point got through in his characterization on television.


* *




BTW, I know that the pain of the Red Wedding is still raw for a lot of TV-only viewers, but here are some video reactions to the episode from the other night. I think part of the reason that a lot of book fans are enjoying watching these is that nobody videotaped us when we hurled our books across the room! So we get to relive the experience vicariously through watching the TV viewers' reactions. Plus, our experience was so individual and isolated. Now we finally get to experience the Red Wedding with other people. I think it's a catharsis of sorts.

Anyway, I thought some of you might find these interesting:


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## KINGoftheAMAZONS

omg! Celebrity gossip, news photos, babies, couples, hotties, and more - omg! from Yahoo!

I'm glad I'm not the only one shocked by all of this :sad:.






Here's the whole scene


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## zerocrossing

LOL. I just posted the same video... but I did it in my spoiler tag because I didn't know how the people who are still raw with emotion would take it. But yes, you are definitely not alone.

As I mentioned in my spoiler tags, these reaction videos are kind of a cathartic experience for those of us who first experienced the Red Wedding in isolation. Nobody was videotaping us when we hurled our books across the room and stormed out of the house cursing and screaming. So it's good to see in these videos a glimpse of our own first reactions.


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## KINGoftheAMAZONS

zerocrossing said:


> LOL. I just posted the same video... but I did it in my spoiler tag because I didn't know how the people who are still raw with emotion would take it. But yes, you are definitely not alone.
> 
> As I mentioned in my spoiler tags, these reaction videos are kind of a cathartic experience for those of us who first experienced the Red Wedding in isolation. Nobody was videotaping us when we hurled our books across the room and stormed out of the house cursing and screaming. So it's good to see in these videos a glimpse of our own first reactions.


I wish I would have recorded me and my brother as we watched it the first time. Of course I had no idea it was coming. But it would have been a bit funny to see some person on their knees screaming "JESUS WHYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!". Lol :laughing:


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## an absurd man

I wished I could have experienced the Red Wedding scene for real. Unfortunately I'd read spoilers (purposefully) after season 2 because I was just that damn impatient. :sad:

P.S. - I absolutely love the Littlefinger hate. :kitteh:


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## Wartime Consigliere

The distrust and hatred of Littlefinger and Roose Bolton is funny.. I don't approve of their decisions, but I love them as characters. Super realistic, competent, and play the game well. I find their loyalty isn't as clearly bad as people make it out to be though, only that they refuse to fight for the losing side. Roose Bolton decided to side with the Lannisters probably when Lord Karstark was killed (thus losing nearly half the northern forces), and Littlefinger siding against Ned Stark only when it was clear he was going to be executed inevitably.


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## zerocrossing

Striver said:


> P.S. - I absolutely love the Littlefinger hate. :kitteh:


And I absolutely love your avatar.  

I'm kind of ambivalent towards Littlefinger. He amuses me, in spite of himself.



Optimist Mind said:


> The distrust and hatred of Littlefinger and Roose Bolton is funny.. I don't approve of their decisions, but I love them as characters. Super realistic, competent, and play the game well. I find their loyalty isn't as clearly bad as people make it out to be though, only that they refuse to fight for the losing side. Roose Bolton decided to side with the Lannisters probably when Lord Karstark was killed (thus losing nearly half the northern forces), and Littlefinger siding against Ned Stark only when it was clear he was going to be executed inevitably.


Dream on!  
(BTW, I love them as characters too... particularly Littlefinger)

I agree that Bolton would not have conspired to overthrow the Starks without the Karstark defection. He does want to be on the winning side. However (and here come book spoilers)...
* *




The Boltons are _always_ looking for an opportunity to overthrow the Starks. It's what they've been doing/attempting to do for thousands of years. Their sigil is the flayed man. The man they like best to flay is the Lord of Winterfell. The Karstark defection gave Bolton the opportunity to make his move, but he was never going to remain loyal to the Lord of Winterfell one minute longer than he had to be. Undying loyalty to their liege lord is not how the Boltons roll. And Roose is quite the typical Bolton.



As for Littlefinger... The TV series implies that Littlefinger's aim from the start is to get Ned out of his way. Now, this is ambiguous because Littlefinger is so ambiguous. However, there are some interesting points from the books...
* *




Littlefinger lied about the dagger, probably with the aim of setting Stark against Lannister. It never belonged to Tyrion. Joffrey, btw, is the one who hired the assassin and gave him the dagger... which means that the dagger probably belonged to Robert. (I can't remember precisely who it did belong to, but it was in the stash of weapons that went North with the King).

Littlefinger and Lysa conspired together to kill Jon Arryn. Lysa wanted to get Arryn out of the way so she could marry Littlefinger. Littlefinger wanted to get Arryn out of the way so that he could make his play for Catelyn. If I recall correctly, the calculatedly "hysterical" note that Lysa sent to Catelyn - and which served as the catalyst for forcing Ned to take on the position as Hand of the King - was suggested by Littlefinger.

I won't discuss right now the details of Littlefinger's role in the future Sansa plot (though it _is_ pretty creepy), but I will say that there is nothing ambiguous about what he does to Sansa's best friend, Jeyne Poole - whose only crime was being in the wrong place at the wrong time when a girl who knew Winterfell was needed for Littlefinger's aims. Jeyne Poole proves that Littlefinger truly has no limits.



Whatever else he is, Littlefinger is not primarily a reactive character. He is a proactive character with long-term goals. I think the best analogy for Littlefinger is that he's a character playing a "long con." My suspicion is that his end-goal is the Iron Throne.
* *




But first he has to go through Winterfell.


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## CosmicJalapeno

The only thing that slightly shocked me about the red wedding scene was how people acted like it was so shocking.

Maybe I've been to too many gore and shock sites.

Here is an interesting article about the scene though

http://www.nerdist.com/2013/06/george-r-r-martin-explains-the-red-weddings-historical-roots/


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## Bipedal P 314

CosmicJalapeno said:


> The only thing that slightly shocked me about the red wedding scene was how people acted like it was so shocking.
> 
> Maybe I've been to too many gore and shock sites.
> 
> Here is an interesting article about the scene though
> 
> George R.R. Martin Explains The Red Wedding’s Historical Roots « Nerdist


It wasn't the gore that was shocking.


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## CosmicJalapeno

BiPedalP314 said:


> It wasn't the gore that was shocking.


I suppose but fact that main chars got killed off so swiftly didn't shock me all too much either.


----------



## Cheveyo

Am I the only one giddy with anticipation over how people are going to react for the next kill? And the ones after?


I can't wait.


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## Coldspot

Cheveyo said:


> Am I the only one giddy with anticipation over how people are going to react for the next kill? And the ones after?
> 
> 
> I can't wait.


There will be cheering all throughout the internet during the next season. It will be amusing roud:


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## zerocrossing

Cheveyo said:


> Am I the only one giddy with anticipation over how people are going to react for the next kill? And the ones after?
> 
> I can't wait.


I'd like to see a mashup of reaction videos from next kill(s) with reaction videos from the Red Wedding. So many possibilities.


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## Slider

It's taking too damn long!

We're not even through the first book!

At this rate, the series will last 12-15 years!


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## Subtle Murder

Slider said:


> It's taking too damn long!
> 
> We're out even through the first book!
> 
> At this rate, the series will last 12-15 years!


Huh? Do you mean the first half of the third book, or the first book in the series? Coz I'm pretty sure we're halfway through the third book at this point in time.


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## zerocrossing

La Petite Sirène said:


> Huh? Do you mean the first half of the third book, or the first book in the series? Coz I'm pretty sure we're halfway through the third book at this point in time.


Yes. We're half-way through Book 3. We finished Book 1 when Robb was proclaimed King in the North and Daenerys came out of the fire with living dragons.


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## Subtle Murder

zerocrossing said:


> Yes. We're half-way through Book 3. We finished Book 1 when Robb was proclaimed King in the North and Daenerys came out of the fire with living dragons.


yup! confused as to what the poster above me was saying about us not having finished the first book, and the series taking 12-15 years to complete.


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## zerocrossing

La Petite Sirène said:


> yup! confused as to what the poster above me was saying about us not having finished the first book, and the series taking 12-15 years to complete.


Perhaps it's the pace at which Martin completes books. 

Anyway, the producers think the show will go 7 years... and they already have a general outline for the material that Martin has not published yet.


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## Slider

Oh, crap.

I guess it's been a while since I read the books.

Haha.

What I meant to say was, The Wheel of Time series would probably take 12-15 years to complete.


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## Shahada

Am I the only one who thought Robb was kind of boring anyway? Sucks about Catelyn though.


Coldspot said:


> There will be cheering all throughout the internet during the next season. It will be amusing


I haven't read the books but I'm pretty sure I know what you're referring to from accidentally reading a spoiler, and me and my fucked up friends are probably the only people who watch this show who are going to be sad


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## Roland Khan

I enjoyed the RW when I first read it tbh. 
* *




Catelyn for me was just very boring as a character, and Robb was likeable and honorable but he certainly isn't the one that I wanted to end up on the throne unless he soon afterward got eaten by Daenerys' dragons (the throne belongs to her :kitteh. The only character I'm going to miss and felt sadness when seen die is the dire wolf. I also think that it just added that much more complexity and drama to Arya's story and is the reason she gets to where she gets to later which is much more interesting than just being a princess in her brother's ''kingdom'' and getting married off, blah blah blah; now instead, her life becomes very interesting indeed.


----------



## FearAndTrembling

Dany sucks. She's annoying and boring in the books and the show. Starks are bland, only interesting one is Arya. Bran is just awful,. So boring. Whenever I see a Bran chapter starting in the books I sigh. Stannis and the Ironborn are cool, but I support the Lannisters. Fat boy's story is boring me too. Still a great show and great books.


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## Roland Khan

I dk how Dany is seen as annoying or boring. She has dragons; she sacks slaves cities and free's them; and she has the coolest army in the Unsullied....but to each their own I guess. Ironborn are just barbaric vikings, nothing to be really respected imo, and only slightly interesting in a strange way.



Don't read if you don't want to hear the spoiler that is about to be said, you've been warned!

* *




Joffrey, that sick and twisted son of a bitch gets what he has coming to him, and Tywin doesn't fair any better....both at the hands of the only good Lannister, Tyrion. All that's really left of the Lannisters then are Cersei and Jaime, and that's only because Tyrion then has to run away across the sea. :laughing:


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## Coldspot

Roland787 said:


> Don't read if you don't want to hear the spoiler that is about to be said, you've been warned!
> 
> * *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Joffrey, that sick and twisted son of a bitch gets what he has coming to him, and Tywin doesn't fair any better....both at the hands of the only good Lannister, Tyrion. All that's really left of the Lannisters then are Cersei and Jaime, and that's only because Tyrion then has to run away across the sea. :laughing:



* *




Joffrey wasn't killed by Tyrion, but rather by someone in Littlefinger's employ


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## Roland Khan

Coldspot said:


> * *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Joffrey wasn't killed by Tyrion, but rather by someone in Littlefinger's employ


Ah yes, I forgot about that :tongue:. Been so long since I've read them


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## zerocrossing

FearAndTrembling said:


> Dany sucks. She's annoying and boring in the books and the show. Starks are bland, only interesting one is Arya. Bran is just awful,. So boring. Whenever I see a Bran chapter starting in the books I sigh. Stannis and the Ironborn are cool, but I support the Lannisters. Fat boy's story is boring me too. Still a great show and great books.


LOL...


* *




Bran is like 7 years old when the story starts. By the time this is all over, though, he's probably going to be warging dragons via the weirwood network. His destiny, I think, is to become one of the most completely badass people in Westeros... just like his greenseer teacher, Bloodraven, was. 

(I know the 3-eyed-crow has not technically been named, but all of the evidence points to Bloodraven... and there is plenty of it. For me, Bloodraven = 3-eyed-crow is a step above theory and pretty much a near-certainty.)

Anyway, woe to any Baratheon, Iron Born, or Lannister who gets in the way of Bran. 

BTW, I wouldn't bet on the Lannisters... except perhaps on Tyrion, whose current goal seems to be to destroy his family and take Casterly Rock for himself.


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## zerocrossing

Here's one for the Lannister fans in the House...






Enjoy your victory while you still can.


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## DAPHNE XO

NOOOOOO I ACCIDENTALLY READ A SPOILER NOOOOOOO FML. URGHHHHH.

Anyway, can someone please explain how Little Finger plays the game? Sorry if it's a newb question but I just don't understand.


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## Roland Khan

JungleDisco said:


> NOOOOOO I ACCIDENTALLY READ A SPOILER NOOOOOOO FML. URGHHHHH.
> 
> Anyway, can someone please explain how Little Finger plays the game? Sorry if it's a newb question but I just don't understand.


If you haven't read the books, it's never wise to read the spoilers on this thread :wink:


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## zerocrossing

JungleDisco said:


> Anyway, can someone please explain how Little Finger plays the game? Sorry if it's a newb question but I just don't understand.


To be honest, Littlefinger's most significant plots would involve spoiler territory for you. He'll start to ramp up his game in the next season of the show (second half of the third book).

We're not really sure what his end goal is either so it's sort of difficult to say why exactly he makes the moves he does. But he's definitely got a little marionette show going.


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## Psychosmurf

JungleDisco said:


> NOOOOOO I ACCIDENTALLY READ A SPOILER NOOOOOOO FML. URGHHHHH.
> 
> Anyway, can someone please explain how Little Finger plays the game? Sorry if it's a newb question but I just don't understand.


"Littlefinger... the gods only know what game Littlefinger is playing."

--Lord Varys


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## an absurd man

zerocrossing said:


> To be honest, Littlefinger's most significant plots would involve spoiler territory for you. He'll start to ramp up his game in the next season of the show (second half of the third book).
> 
> We're not really sure what his end goal is either so it's sort of difficult to say why exactly he makes the moves he does. But he's definitely got a little marionette show going.


It seems as though he's only interested in amassing power via wealth, land holdings, and influence and not the throne itself (although there are several scenes involving him being alone in the throne room). 

Looks like he wants to be like Tywin; the man with the real power. If he takes over the Vale through marriage with Lysa Arryn, he'll have an army, but I have trouble seeing how he'll be able to command it effectively having come from out of the blue and having no battle experience.


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## zerocrossing

Stay tuned. Assuming the TV show does not deviate too far from the books, Littlefinger hasn't even gotten started yet.


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## Psychosmurf

zerocrossing said:


> Stay tuned. Assuming the TV show does not deviate too far from the books,* Littlefinger hasn't even gotten started yet.*


Damn! Now I _really_ can't wait for the new season.


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## zerocrossing

Psychosmurf said:


> Damn! Now I _really_ can't wait for the new season.


Your patience will be rewarded. 

We don't really even start to get a glimpse of Littlefinger in all his glory until the second half of Book 3. As I said before, he's playing what I'd call the equivalent of a _long_ con... and he's got the patience and the brains for it.


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## Slider

I thought there was one more episode...


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## Roland Khan

There is, Sunday will be season finale


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## zerocrossing

The ending for the finale was exactly what the episode title indicated, but not what the book fans wanted to see...


* *




All of the book fans I've talked to wanted the episode to end with the awakening of UnCat.


Anyway, the ending seemed kind of tacked on and kind of "meh" to me, not really organically tied in with the rest of the episode.

That said, I thought it was cool that they kept the part about Bran telling the story of the Rat Cook.

I also liked the handling of the Ramsey reveal... and the naming of "Reek." It's brutal, yeah. But so is Ramsey. The more than point is reinforced, the better situated we are for future plotlines.

I loved the Arya additions. GRRM makes us suffer through over 100 pages of non-Arya storylines before we find out that she's still alive. I think the Arya stuff was added mainly to let us know what the Freys did with Robb's and Grey Wind's bodies. (We learn that bit from a conversation in Kings Landing... I think from Tywin, actually).

*Some other stuff I liked...*

The scene between Tywin and Tyrion. Actually, the whole scene with Tywin was great from the moment Tywin started talking and ordered Joffrey out of the room. Charles Dance just kills in this part. Tywin is one of my most despised characters in ASOIAF, but he's one of my favorite characters to watch in _Game of Thrones_.

Sam and Gilly with Maester Aemon. But then, I love pretty much any scene with Maester Aemon in it.

The reaction at Dragonstone to Maester Aemon's raven. But the only Dragonstone character I really like is Ser Davos. I thought it was kind of weird that he released Gendry to row himself to KL. But I guess now that Gendry's character arc has served its purpose on Dragonstone (i.e., taking over Edric Storm's story), Gendry gets to go back to the mainland and go back to playing out Gendry's own story again.

Anyway, that's what comes to mind off hand.

I didn't much like the Jon/Ygritte scene. I also didn't much like the way they tacked on the Mhysa scene at the end. But the episode did what it needed to do... i.e., set the stage for season 4 and let the Red Wedding sink in.


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## Roland Khan

Hey everybody!

A great site of get loads of information from the books, without anything being spoiled. There is a bar (Scope) that lets you check off which books you've read and/or which seasons you have seen so there will be no spoilers. But there is some really in depth things to find out that maybe didn't catch the first time or just want a bit more in depth analysis.

Anyway, here ya go Tower of the Hand ~ An Encyclopedia of Ice and Fire

enjoy


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## Psychosmurf

Mhysa!


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## DemonAbyss10

Best way to think of Littlefinger is as a mashup between Hannibal Lecter and Lelouch. Can't wait til book 7, Winds of winter.


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## Roland Khan

DemonAbyss10 said:


> Best way to think of Littlefinger is as a mashup between Hannibal Lecter and Lelouch. Can't wait til book 7, Winds of winter.


Book 6*


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## KINGoftheAMAZONS

zerocrossing said:


> Anyway, the ending seemed kind of tacked on and kind of "meh" to me, not really organically tied in with the rest of the episode.


It was really campy actually :dry:. I didn't much enjoy it. I thought the season finale was okay overall, but a bit anti-climatic. Of course I loved Arya's scene (she's my favorite character), and I'm loving Sandor more and more every episode. 



> The scene between Tywin and Tyrion. Actually, the whole scene with Tywin was great from the moment Tywin started talking and ordered Joffrey out of the room. Charles Dance just kills in this part. Tywin is one of my most despised characters in ASOIAF, but he's one of my favorite characters to watch in _Game of Thrones._​


I'm mostly into women, but the TV version of Tywin is so sexy! :blushed: Especially his mind, his strategic genius, and his death stare. I really can't say that I hate his character (the show's version anyways). 



> I didn't much like the Jon/Ygritte scene


Yeah that was a dumb scene. Did it happen that way in the book? Something tells me that Jon getting shot could have been avoided had he not ran away without Ygritte in the first place, or at least if he would have told her that he needed to go home, but not without her joining him first (I'm certain she would have lowered her bow then). I mean honestly, is Arya the only Stark with some sense?


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## DemonAbyss10

Roland787 said:


> Book 6*


Typos happen XD


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## Roland Khan

KINGoftheAMAZONS said:


> I mean honestly, is Arya the only Stark with some sense?


Yes. 

But that's okay, because she's also the best character in the entire series....well for me she and Dany are equally my favorites. Tyrion comes in third, and the direwolves are all tied for fourth.

And yeah, I like Sandor quite a bit myself too, have for quite some time actually. Since first couple of books really....it's Gregor that's the real prick.

Really don't read this spoiler if you haven't read through the end of the third book (this season was only first half of third book, although I'm sure quite a bit of it could still be taken from that much), a lot probably couldn't've been gotten through the tv series, I think most of it is really only presented in the books so open the tag at your own risk.


* *




Pssst...Jon's not really a Stark, well at least not on his father's side...his mother (Eddard's sister) tho so yeah technically, but he's not Eddards, he's the last remaining male Targaryen (Rhaegar's), at least that's where almost all of the evidence points. Here's more...Past Events: Jon Snow's Parents ~ Tower of the Hand




Really hope you didn't spoil anything for yourself and get upset with me....I warned you, spoiler tags!


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## Roland Khan

Okay, I just finished watching the last episode....how do you not like the ending? Guess if you're not much a Dany fan then maybe, but who says it has to be something off the wall climactic? (especially with it only coming from the middle of the book). Guess I just love seeing Dany being loved for being so awesome and freeing people, and her sweet Unsullied army.


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## KINGoftheAMAZONS

Roland787 said:


> Okay, I just finished watching the last episode....how do you not like the ending? Guess if you're not much a Dany fan then maybe, but who says it has to be something off the wall climactic?


Most of the episode was anti-climatic, not just the ending. And I like Dany and all, but the last scene was very cheesy to me. And there were other things that I didn't like about it, but I won't discuss that here .



> Guess I just love seeing Dany being loved for being so awesome


I hope Martin eventually decides to put a sword in her hands. I'm glad she's gathering followers, but I feel like her worth as a leader is always rested upon some external factor instead of Dany herself: Whether that be her army (that she doesn't physically participate in), or her dragons (that are independent entities of their own).


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## rawrmosher

What was that, Guest Right?

GUESSED WRONG! 


Was Robb marrying Talisa worth it?

Frey'd not :c 

I could keep going


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## Roland Khan

KINGoftheAMAZONS said:


> Most of the episode was anti-climatic, not just the ending. And I like Dany and all, but the last scene was very cheesy to me. And there were other things that I didn't like about it, but I won't discuss that here .
> 
> 
> 
> I hope Martin eventually decides to put a sword in her hands. I'm glad she's gathering followers, but I feel like her worth as a leader is always rested upon some external factor instead of Dany herself: Whether that be her army (that she doesn't physically participate in), or her dragons (that are independent entities of their own).


Yeah I feel ya, it was a tad cheesy I suppose at the very very end of it where they all lifted her up n shit, but up until that point at least it still somehow made me feel all warm and fuzzy :kitteh:.

And considering that it's only middle of the book, it's understandable that the whole episode would feel not as climactic as one would expect a season finale. I liked that it showed Arya get her first real kill though and just how cool she was going about it. 


* *




Shows us her potential as one of the Faceless Men :ninja:




It would be cool to see Dany with a sword eventually, but when you ride a dragon into battle, a sword isn't much use, lol. Right now, she has no need to fight herself, only to lead her people and continue freeing slaves as she goes along trying to gain followers and an army along with finding ships. She herself would just be way too vulnerable in combat, that's not where her strength comes from. Her worth as a leader comes from her courage and ''strength'' in dealing with her enemies, sure, through the use of her dragons...but every warrior has their weapons.


* *




Unfortunately not much happens in next book with her either, or even in DwD for that matter, although by that time the dragons are grown quite a bit more and at the end she finally rides Drogon, but that won't be for 3 more seasons (and that's if they don't split the 4th book in two like they're doing with the 3rd


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## KINGoftheAMAZONS

Roland787 said:


> It would be cool to see Dany with a sword eventually, but when you ride a dragon into battle, a sword isn't much use, lol. Right now, she has no need to fight herself, only to lead her people and continue freeing slaves as she goes along trying to gain followers and an army along with finding ships. She herself would just be way too vulnerable in combat, that's not where her strength comes from. Her worth as a leader comes from her courage and ''strength'' in dealing with her enemies, sure, through the use of her dragons...but every warrior has their weapons.


But what happens when her dragons and her Queensguard are busy fighting off the enemy? Who will be there to protect her should an enemy combatant sneak past her protectors? She must learn how to fight, and she must learn how to use weapons. Personally I'd like to see her with a composite bow and a two-piece set of flails, both made out of dragon bones and dragon glass. Do you know how awesome that would be?















Picture these weapons made out of dragon bones. I'd make the "ball" part of the flail out of a large piece of dragon glass shaped like a dragon skull. And of course I'd make the arrow tips out of dragon glass for the Bow. This is what I want to see in Dany's hands :kitteh:. A girl can dream...


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## Roland Khan

KINGoftheAMAZONS said:


> But what happens when her dragons and her Queensguard are busy fighting off the enemy? Who will be there to protect her should an enemy combatant sneak past her protectors? She must learn how to fight, and she must learn how to use weapons. Personally I'd like to see her with a composite bow and a two-piece set of flails, both made out of dragon bones and dragon glass. Do you know how awesome that would be?
> 
> View attachment 74351
> View attachment 74352
> 
> 
> Picture these weapons made out of dragon bones. I'd make the "ball" part of the flail out of a large piece of dragon glass shaped like a dragon skull. And of course I'd make the arrow tips out of dragon glass for the Bow. This is what I want to see in Dany's hands :kitteh:. A girl can dream...


Yeah that would be very badass indeed. Fly low alongside an enemy....thunk!


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## KINGoftheAMAZONS

Roland787 said:


> Yeah that would be very badass indeed. Fly low alongside an enemy....thunk!


Great minds think alike :wink:


----------



## SweetPickles

Ace Face said:


> I have always liked the idea of a Petyr + Sansa shipping. Best creepy shipping everrrr ^.^


I think it would be funny if she and Jaime got together, just to see Cersei completely lose her shit. I actually think Tyrion is good for her, he respects her, empathizes with her and treats her very kindly.

As for my prior post about Lord Tywin, it disappoints me how he treats Tyrion. Sure, he's a badass...I guess his heart turned to shit when his wife died. According to the books he adored her.


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## FearAndTrembling

MelanieM said:


> I think it would be funny if she and Jaime got together, just to see Cersei completely lose her shit. I actually think Tyrion is good for her, he respects her, empathizes with her and treats her very kindly.
> 
> As for my prior post about Lord Tywin, it disappoints me how he treats Tyrion. Sure, he's a badass...I guess his heart turned to shit when his wife died. According to the books he adored her.


Tywin Lannister has always been a hard ass. He built the Lannister name. He was more of a man than his father was, even when a kid. His father was actually a pussy. Tywin has always been very strong and hard.

He is like Cersei. Jaime and Tyrion are softer.


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## Ace Face

MelanieM said:


> I think it would be funny if she and Jaime got together, just to see Cersei completely lose her shit. I actually think Tyrion is good for her, he respects her, empathizes with her and treats her very kindly.
> 
> As for my prior post about Lord Tywin, it disappoints me how he treats Tyrion. Sure, he's a badass...I guess his heart turned to shit when his wife died. According to the books he adored her.


Tyrion was wonderful to her. And I think she cares for Tyrion, but she and Petyr Baelish have more of a history together. Like I said, I am totally for the creepy shipping. I don't think Lord Baelish really knows how he feels about Sansa. At times, he sees her as a daughter he could have had, at other times, he sees her as something beautiful and much desired, and at other times, he sees her as nothing more than a player that will help him get the throne he desires. I love his unpredictability, and I love that Sansa is starting to become a player in her own right. She is getting better at lying. They're both smart, but their tactics are different. I would like to see how the pairing works as one fierce dynamic :3 

And Tywin... not sure how to feel about him honestly. He is a hard ass, but he's also pretty smart unless we're speaking matters of coin. Holy fuckz. And I don't think he wanted Tyrion dead until after Tyrion talked about how much he wished he could watch all of King's Landing swallow poison.


----------



## Tao Te Ching

Oh... that's why they call him blackfish.... this explains motivations to me retroactively.


----------



## SweetPickles

I am Team Stark, but the Lannisters are a fun family to watch period. I am probably the only person who sometimes likes Cersei. I love to watch her character, I want to break out the popcorn. Yes, she's quite the bitch but I find her intelligent and _tough_, she will cut you! So she's going off the deep end now, but she does love her children, even the sadistic foolish Joffrey. I loved/hated her when she'd call Sansa "little dove". She could have easily controlled Sansa...now she has to deal with Margeary (even more fun to watch).


----------



## an absurd man

Team Baelish, represent!

I wonder if/how he's going to get rid of little Robin Arryn. I was surprised that Sansa vouched for him at the "trial" when he didn't coerce her into it. I thought he did at first, so I guess he's lucky to be out of trouble and he's not untouchable. And now Sansa is accepting her corruption... interesting


----------



## Ace Face

an absurd man said:


> Team Baelish, represent!
> 
> I wonder if/how he's going to get rid of little Robin Arryn.


Something we agree on. Robin Arryn's naive nature will get him killed methinks. I am eager to see how that plays out.


----------



## an absurd man

Ace Face said:


> Something we agree on. Robin Arryn's naive nature will get him killed methinks. I am eager to see how that plays out.


All the more evil and cold-blooded if he does it himself, especially after that "take charge of your life" talk with Robin. Do you think it's genuine paternal instinct or cold-blooded manipulation?


----------



## Ace Face

an absurd man said:


> All the more evil and cold-blooded if he does it himself, especially after that "take charge of your life" talk with Robin. Do you think it's genuine paternal instinct or cold-blooded manipulation?


I think Robin is liable to do something stupid and get himself killed no matter what. I think Petyr knows this, and in the mean time, it makes him look like less of an enemy. The elite people of the Vale already have suspicions about Lord Baelish. Pushing the true king to the throne makes him look like less of an enemy and more like a friend. He is being smart, and he knows that after Robin dies, Sansa will likely take the throne. He has worked very hard to remain on her good side, so. That's my take on it.


----------

