# I am going on a fast. This is my diary.



## Indiana Dan

My life has become devoid of joy, evn though I have many things to be grateful for and feel good about. I have returned to a state tha can be described with the following: confused, depressed, unlikeable, ungrateful, selfish, gluttonous, uncreative, overspending, addicted, unmotivated. It's time to fast..

It's not easy.. It never is. But the spiritual healing that occurs is well worth it. Bring it on!! I am planning to go the rest of the day today (last thing i ate was at 9am) and tomorrow.. We'll see what I feel like doing.. I might break the fast with dinner tomorrow or I might keep going. Actually if I get some support on here I might go for a while!

This is my diary of my fasting experience. I hope it will provide inspiration to others, but at the very least it will keep me accountable.

Time to run on fat-burn mode!! Slow and steady baby. Re-calibrate my limbic system. Get deep sleep, cleanse and heal my body and mind. Put me back on the track.

Im tired of not having any genuinely good, satisfying thoughts and ideas come into my mind. I need the clarity that only a fast can provide

It's funny how the more abundance of pleasures I have, the more I eventually end up complaining and feeling unsatisfied. That's the balancing system of life I suppose!


----------



## Indiana Dan

I want to feel the onset of my FAVORITE ♥ time of year in all of its glory.

I am in a position job-wise where can pull this fast off relatively easily. (I'm a driver). The last time I fasted was last year and I was a landscaper... It was horrible. I was too weak to get serious work done.

It's like.. I could spend my whole life failing to reach my goals just because I am spending the majority of my energy digesting food and exercising to try and burn it off, or I can begin addressing the problem now. I choose to address it. 

No, I am not fat. That doesn't mean that I don't eat way too much and for the wrong reasons.


----------



## Indiana Dan

I feel my mental health improving. I feel less stress. My body is under a light load, since there's little to no food left to spend energy digesting. I decided to spend my time in the evening going to the gym and doing the stairclimber, cutting the grass, and playing some music. Normally I pretty much just eat the entire time I'm home. Always something healthy.. like oatmeal, veggies, fruits, tuna, etc.. but always too much. 

I realize that this addiction is all a part of my alcohol addiction. The alcohol was the addiction was what really opened the door to doing things in excess. I remember when I made the conscious decision to start overeating because my friend at the time was big into over-eating at restaurants and drinking way too much, and I decided to fuck my health over with him. We both have emotional wounds due to our fathers. Mine's an alcoholic, and his is an alcoholic but abandoned the family when my friend was very young.

So since I have begun healing from alcoholism a couple months shy of two years ago, I have had to reverse all of the terrible habits that I had formed in my alcoholism. I drank every day for 4 years. That's like walking 400 miles and then turning around and walking back and seeing the same stuff.


----------



## Indiana Dan

Definitely getting thoughts of food now.. wonder what tomorrow's gonna be like!!

Also just did 50 good quality pushups! That's real good


----------



## finically

Best of luck with your initiative! Hopefully you are taking care of yourself too, and not pushing yourself too hard. We'll be cheering you on.


----------



## Indiana Dan

Testosterone levels have increased to a very healthy level. Self confidence much higher.


----------



## Indiana Dan

6:00. Just woke up. I did not get ANY R.E.M. sleep because I smoked a j with my brother shortly before going to bed. This was a mistake and I will not be doing this anymore on weeknights. I realize that I made my day much harder by doing this.

Here we go.. 2nd day. 1st day of completely no calories. Let's see what happens.


----------



## Indiana Dan

I feel emotional turmoil and pain, but I understand this is part of healing. I am looking to prolong this fast for as long as possible because I can see it is going to make me a better person.


----------



## HandiAce

Hang in there! Remember that its all for your health. I think you knew that already.


----------



## finically

TerminalDancer said:


> 6:00. Just woke up. I did not get ANY R.E.M. sleep because I smoked a j with my brother shortly before going to bed.


That's interesting. I didn't know that marijuana suppressed REM sleep. Also, you correctly imply that a lack of REM sleep is bad, but the same goes for too much REM sleep. My biggest problem is that none of my yearlong efforts at curbing REM sleep have worked; I'm just a restless sleeper, and end up fatigued.


----------



## Indiana Dan

finically said:


> That's interesting. I didn't know that marijuana suppressed REM sleep. Also, you correctly imply that a lack of REM sleep is bad, but the same goes for too much REM sleep. My biggest problem is that none of my yearlong efforts at curbing REM sleep have worked; I'm just a restless sleeper, and end up fatigued.


Marijuana greatly inhibits R.E.M. From what I can tell. Of course you get the advantage of dreaming with your eyes open:tongue:

Too much REM? Hmm sounds like a strange concept to me, but I suppose it's possible.

As far as the fast.. I feel fine. I don't really feel like doing physical work though. I just feel like resting. My goal is to continue the fast until I burn off most of the extra fat I have.. Or at least that will be a good indicator


----------



## Indiana Dan

Wow...overindulgence in food has really been reducing my quality of life. I am really glad I'm putting the effort to address the issue. One concern that is beginning to form in my mind is that I'm afraid of my ability to moderate. I always want 'all or nothing'.. It's just the way I'm programmed. I might consider doing daily fasts, such as the 'Warrior Diet', which I've tried in the past. Actually.. It sounds like a great idea that I will probably employ once this fast is done.


----------



## Impavida

You have inspired me....well sort of. I was thinking of doing a fast anyway, but this thread was extra motivation  I can't do a complete fast due to the nature of my job, but limited caloric intake always works.

One that has worked well for me in the past - fruit smoothie for breakfast and nothing but green juice and water for the rest of the day. I should be able to start this evening and go for the rest of the week quite easily.


----------



## Indiana Dan

@jayde 

Nice!! We have such similar minds 

Btw I love the Simpsons too. I have been watching seasons 3 and 4 for the past couple days. It's sooo good. The genius and quality of the show is beyond what I could ever imagine creating.. And I'm so glad it exists. The show grounds me to what is good and real. It makes me laugh. If I find another show as good as those early Simpsons in my lifetime, I'll be very surprised.. And happy!


----------



## Indiana Dan

Feeling real good. Just exercised at the gym.. Did better than normal. I found A couple things about eating. 1. Overeating makes people very unattractive. 2. It's impossible to be a man if you overeat.. You just won't have the testosterone. I'm tired of being a little gluttonous whiny bitch. Life is not about eating. It is one of life's pleasures, but it will quickly steal the quality and joy from our lives if we abuse it for our sick pleasure. No more.. I'm not doing that anymore.


----------



## Impavida

Yeah, the Simpsons are fun  I haven't watched any episodes in ages though. 

My personal mantra on eating - "Food is fuel, not a hobby."

I'm doing this fast as a cleanse. My eating habits have turned rather atrocious lately, so I'm basically purging my system to stop the sugar/fat cravings, level out my brain chemistry and start over with a clean slate. I usually do a fast/cleanse/whatever you want to call it p) for about 5-7 days, but I've gone for two weeks before.

Normally at this point in the evening, I'm feeling pretty gross. Since the 500mL of green juice for dinner I've had nothing but water and I'm feeling great. Energy levels are up and head is clearer already. I feel a bit hungry, but that will ease off overnight. Tomorrow is probably going to be rough with the detox headaches, but it normally gets easier after the second day.

If anyone is interested and @TerminalDancer doesn't mind a minor thread hijack I'd be happy to post up the recipes for my smoothie and green juice.


----------



## Indiana Dan

jayde said:


> Yeah, the Simpsons are fun  I haven't watched any episodes in ages though.
> 
> My personal mantra on eating - "Food is fuel, not a hobby."
> 
> I'm doing this fast as a cleanse. My eating habits have turned rather atrocious lately, so I'm basically purging my system to stop the sugar/fat cravings, level out my brain chemistry and start over with a clean slate. I usually do a fast/cleanse/whatever you want to call it p) for about 5-7 days, but I've gone for two weeks before.
> 
> Normally at this point in the evening, I'm feeling pretty gross. Since the 500mL of green juice for dinner I've had nothing but water and I'm feeling great. Energy levels are up and head is clearer already. I feel a bit hungry, but that will ease off overnight. Tomorrow is probably going to be rough with the detox headaches, but it normally gets easier after the second day.
> 
> If anyone is interested and @_TerminalDancer_ doesn't mind a minor thread hijack I'd be happy to post up the recipes for my smoothie and green juice.


Hey you're cool with me, Jayde. You can post whatever you want!


----------



## finically

TerminalDancer said:


> Too much REM? Hmm sounds like a strange concept to me, but I suppose it's possible.


Research and my personal experiences with doctors support this; too much and too little REM are both bad for health.


----------



## Indiana Dan

finically said:


> Research and my personal experiences with doctors support this; too much and too little REM are both bad for health.


I believe you! Supports the notion that too much or little of _anything _is not good.

@ jayde 5-7 days is a long time! 2 weeks is insane!! In a good way  longest I've go e is 4 days or so. How are you doing? You doing the caloric restriction or what!?


----------



## Impavida

Caloric restriction indeed. I tend to average about 800 calories per day when I'm doing a fast/cleanse. I don't usually go below 500 or above 1000. 

For a complete fast of 0 calories per day I don't think I've ever gone longer than 2-3 days.

I was insanely hungry when I woke up this morning. Not good. That shows just how far off track I've gotten with my diet over the last couple of months. When I've been good about my eating, I don't usually feel that hungry when I'm doing this. It will be lots of water and green tea for me today!


----------



## Cher Zee

I don't think it's trollish to not believe in fasting. I don't. I feel very light-headed when I don't eat regular meals. My body doesn't like it and I feel very cranky, lose energy and it makes me miserable.

I never understood fasting, not to say I think people shouldn't because all bodies are different. But my body needs the fuel and I need the energy food provides.


----------



## Indiana Dan

Cher_to_the_Z said:


> I don't think it's trollish to not believe in fasting. I don't. I feel very light-headed when I don't eat regular meals. My body doesn't like it and I feel very cranky, lose energy and it makes me miserable.
> 
> I never understood fasting, not to say I think people shouldn't because all bodies are different. But my body needs the fuel and I need the energy food provides.


I just thought her language and overall statement intended to disrupt my thread. 

There's nothing to really 'believe' in, it's all science. But with that being said, if you have a healthy relationship with food, then you will notice the benefits to a much lesser degree than someone that abuses food.. like me.

The reason you feel light headed (upon standing, I'm assuming) is because your body is running on low-fuel mode. Of course life will not be as 'exciting' and pleasurable as with ready-to-burn fuel, but if you are in need of physical or spiritual healing, fasting is the best!


----------



## Impavida

So..I made today a re-feed day and ate at maintenance. I still did the juice and smoothie, but I added in a nice chicken salad and a veggie omelette. I was just way too active the last couple of days to stay on restricted calories. I could feel my energy levels tanking. 

Back at it tomorrow


----------



## chip

TerminalDancer said:


> Aaaaannd the trolls have arrived.



Been here longer than you. Still here, obv not a troll. 
Just being honest about the consequences of fasting.


What Does Fasting Do to Your System? | Healthy Eating | SF Gate


----------



## chip

TerminalDancer said:


> I just thought her language and overall statement intended to disrupt my thread.
> 
> There's nothing to really 'believe' in, it's all science. But with that being said, if you have a healthy relationship with food, then you will notice the benefits to a much lesser degree than someone that abuses food.. like me.
> 
> The reason you feel light headed (upon standing, I'm assuming) is because your body is running on low-fuel mode. Of course life will not be as 'exciting' and pleasurable as with ready-to-burn fuel, but if you are in need of physical or spiritual healing, fasting is the best!


That's because glucose is one of the biggest fuels for our brains and once it's cut off, you experience very bad symptoms which can, in some cases lead to a hypoglycemic coma, or death.

"The Brain rewards the blood glucose spikes with neurotransmitters even when shortly afterwards we are pelted with insulin to take the spikes down. It is the Brain fighting at the expense of the body and the body's own reaction to bring the system to balance." 

Instead of fasting, eat healthier foods.


----------



## chip

I abuse food because I have insulin resistance so I asked a specialist in this area, why I feel so horrible when I eat sugar and the other culprits and if you abuse food, you may be addicted to it because your body -needs- glucose, and your reach for the fastest acting glucose based food. 

The reply from the nutritionist to me was:

"I am thinking you may have kept masking the lows created by insulin rush by eating more sugars. Well, that is very bad. It leads to more and more insulin.. and of course a lot of the sugars go into the body cells... 

The reactions you describe are indeed some of the reactions.. including swelling.. but also fat accumulation at times. (Gluten reaction)

but the worst thing is you progressively lose the cellular capability take amino acids from eaten proteins and convert them to cellular glucose. About half the protein we eat converts this way to energize the body.. Instead that process shuts down literally by conversion of glutathione to glutaathione disulfide in the mitochondria. and once this happens, methylaation and gluconeogenesis processes are hindered - body does not function correctly. 

What works:
RH Diet 
+ lots of vegetables and some semi-ripe fruit daily + yogurt and probiotics + Vitamin C. 

If you are on medications, talk with the doctor (perhaps a natural medicine doc) about other more serious antioxidants from nutritional supplements aisle."


----------



## Indiana Dan

@chip Ok, fair enough. Sorry for the troll accusation. 

I don't believe the part about burning muscle. Mainly because I have witnessed that it is not true, at least for me. My body burns fat the moment I run out of free-burning glucose, not muscle. Breaking down muscle for fuel occurs once fat is gone. Why the f**k would the body burn it's muscle first? None of my muscle has deteriorated from any of my fasting. It also says 'Slowed metabolism'. To that I would say "Of course..". Interaction with medication: you're on your own there. I don't take any pharmaceutical medication.

Well it works great for me. And the most important and appreciated things that it does for me is it heals my mental health. But the reason why it does that is because I constantly over-eat to begin with.

The bottom line is that fasting is extremely beneficial and healthy for anyone that thinks they might be overeating. Actually for anyone, really. It's also noble and badass.


----------



## chip

TerminalDancer said:


> @_chip_ Ok, fair enough. Sorry for the troll accusation.
> 
> I don't believe the part about burning muscle. Mainly because I have witnessed that it is not true, at least for me. My body burns fat the moment I run out of free-burning glucose, not muscle. Breaking down muscle for fuel occurs once fat is gone. Why the f**k would the body burn it's muscle first? None of my muscle has deteriorated from any of my fasting. It also says 'Slowed metabolism'. To that I would say "Of course..". Interaction with medication: you're on your own there. I don't take any pharmaceutical medication.
> 
> Well it works great for me. And the most important and appreciated things that it does for me is it heals my mental health. But the reason why it does that is because I constantly over-eat to begin with.
> 
> The bottom line is that fasting is extremely beneficial and healthy for anyone that thinks they might be overeating. Actually for anyone, really. It's also noble and badass.



Have you had a scientist show you that your body doesn't eat it's self?


----------



## Red Panda

TerminalDancer said:


> @chip Ok, fair enough. Sorry for the troll accusation.
> 
> I don't believe the part about burning muscle. Mainly because I have witnessed that it is not true, at least for me. My body burns fat the moment I run out of free-burning glucose, not muscle. Breaking down muscle for fuel occurs once fat is gone. Why the f**k would the body burn it's muscle first? None of my muscle has deteriorated from any of my fasting. It also says 'Slowed metabolism'. To that I would say "Of course..". Interaction with medication: you're on your own there. I don't take any pharmaceutical medication.
> 
> Well it works great for me. And the most important and appreciated things that it does for me is it heals my mental health. But the reason why it does that is because I constantly over-eat to begin with.
> 
> The bottom line is that fasting is extremely beneficial and healthy for anyone that thinks they might be overeating. Actually for anyone, really. It's also noble and badass.


In theory, the body doesn't burn skeletal muscle before fat, but in practice it does a little bit. That's why it's suggested to do strength exercising for maintenance during weight loss. It certainly doesn't break down proteins from organs and such unless fat is depleted, but skeletal muscles are used even when you are on a deficit and not fasting.
examples
Differences in circulating gluconeogenic substrates during short-term fasting in men, women, and children

Glutamine: a major gluconeogenic precursor and vehicle for interorgan carbon transport in man.


How long do you plan on doing this? And how do you think it will help you deal with over eating? It kinda seems to me that you are trying to beat one extreme with another, which could work but likely not. I do hope it works for you though.


----------



## Indiana Dan

Red Panda said:


> In theory, the body doesn't burn skeletal muscle before fat, but in practice it does a little bit. That's why it's suggested to do strength exercising for maintenance during weight loss. It certainly doesn't break down proteins from organs and such unless fat is depleted, but skeletal muscles are used even when you are on a deficit and not fasting.
> examples
> Differences in circulating gluconeogenic substrates during short-term fasting in men, women, and children
> 
> Glutamine: a major gluconeogenic precursor and vehicle for interorgan carbon transport in man.
> 
> 
> How long do you plan on doing this? And how do you think it will help you deal with over eating? It kinda seems to me that you are trying to beat one extreme with another, which could work but likely not. I do hope it works for you though.


I'm not worried about losing a un-noticeable amount of muscle. Growing/keeping muscle is all part of a routine anyways. Either you got the routine or you don't. 

Yes, I do extremes with everything. It's the way I am. I only fast for max 3 days at a time normally.

Why do you think it is not going to help? Have you read my diary? It helps tremendously.


----------



## Red Panda

TerminalDancer said:


> I'm not worried about losing a un-noticeable amount of muscle. Growing/keeping muscle is all part of a routine anyways. Either you got the routine or you don't.
> 
> Yes, I do extremes with everything. It's the way I am. I only fast for max 3 days at a time normally.
> 
> Why do you think it is not going to help? Have you read my diary? It helps tremendously.



It's just that food isn't like other addictions since you need it to survive. You're gonna have to learn to live with it, learn to control yourself when you are faced with the need to indulge, right at the moment it happens. It just seems to me, from your diary, that over eating is a _symptom_ not a cause of your general health issues, which seem to be more of psychological nature. As a similar example, I get migraines from anxiety due to my father's death, and I take painkillers to help the pain. After the pain is gone I feel fine, ready to do all the things I couldn't because of the pain, but is my anxiety gone? No, which means the migraines will happen again, and they do.

I also used to be an emotional eater due to depression and general low-self esteem etc., and I've only managed to beat it by fixing the issues that made me depressed, and I believe that's true for most people. 

Maybe this will work for you, maybe your mindset will change and I do hope it does, so good luck.


----------



## Indiana Dan

chip said:


> I abuse food because I have insulin resistance


Abusing food GIVES you insulin resistance. Then you continue to overeat in order to keep the blood sugar flowing, regardless of insulin sensitivity, which is compounding the issue. You must stop this behavior before your diabetes gets worse. Fasting would be THE BEST possible thing for you to do. Try it, please. It's very hard to get started, but you will begin to see the benefits and you will love it. No pain, no gain.


----------



## Impavida

In response to the "fasting is bad" brigade...there isn't really any scientific evidence to support that. On the flip side, there's not a lot of scientific evidence showing its benefits either. That's because there have been so few clinical studies done on the topic in modern times.

What little information there is on caloric restriction and intermittent fasting is definitely positive in the short-term. It reduces insulin and glucose in the blood, lowering the risk of diabetes. It was also used in the early 1900s to _treat_ diabetes. In rat studies, caloric restriction has shown increased lifespan and reduced risk of cancer. It has also been shown that caloric restriction protects neurons and prevents degenerative brain disease like Parkinsons and Alzheimers.

Obviously if taken to the extreme, the body starts to starve and you're going to see negative effects. Done in moderation though, the benefits far outweigh any risks.


----------



## Indiana Dan

Red Panda said:


> It's just that food isn't like other addictions since you need it to survive. You're gonna have to learn to live with it, learn to control yourself when you are faced with the need to indulge, right at the moment it happens. It just seems to me, from your diary, that over eating is a _symptom_ not a cause of your general health issues, which seem to be more of psychological nature. As a similar example, I get migraines from anxiety due to my father's death, and I take painkillers to help the pain. After the pain is gone I feel fine, ready to do all the things I couldn't because of the pain, but is my anxiety gone? No, which means the migraines will happen again, and they do.
> 
> I also used to be an emotional eater due to depression and general low-self esteem etc., and I've only managed to beat it by fixing the issues that made me depressed, and I believe that's true for most people.
> 
> Maybe this will work for you, maybe your mindset will change and I do hope it does, so good luck.


I appreciate you reading my thread and attempting to understand where I'm coming from.

The reason why this works for me is because this is a LIFESTYLE change. It is not simply a one time thing. The lifestyle change brings about a much healthier state of mind, which will result many, if not all of the aspects of my life being improved. Alls it takes is a little self-denial.

Food IS just like all other addictions. Yes, we need a certain amount to survive, but that's the only difference. I won't have any trouble learning to live with it, I love food. I am just aiming to be fully aware of how each item I put into my body is affecting me.

Overeating is both a symptom AND a cause of my issues. What's the harm in getting rid of the issue altogether?

Improving my health is one of my favorite things to do, and fasting is one of the greatest ways to do it. 

There is a great wealth of information to study about how fasting works and why it is so great. I will try to find some good links for everyone.


----------



## Indiana Dan

On Becoming Superhuman: Fasting for Fast Weight Loss, Better Health, and Supreme Fitness

Here's a good one. More to come

http://www.thefeelgoodlifestyle.com...-loss-superior-fitness-and-better-health.html

Oh,and this one is great http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=52150


----------



## Red Panda

TerminalDancer said:


> I appreciate you reading my thread and attempting to understand where I'm coming from.
> 
> The reason why this works for me is because this is a LIFESTYLE change. It is not simply a one time thing. The lifestyle change brings about a much healthier state of mind, which will result many, if not all of the aspects of my life being improved. Alls it takes is a little self-denial.
> 
> Food IS just like all other addictions. Yes, we need a certain amount to survive, but that's the only difference. I won't have any trouble learning to live with it, I love food. I am just aiming to be fully aware of how each item I put into my body is affecting me.
> 
> Overeating is both a symptom AND a cause of my issues. What's the harm in getting rid of the issue altogether?
> 
> Improving my health is one of my favorite things to do, and fasting is one of the greatest ways to do it.
> 
> There is a great wealth of information to study about how fasting works and why it is so great. I will try to find some good links for everyone.


It's good to see people who do such lifestyle changes and I applaud you for that and hope it lasts for as long as you want it to (forever).

Overeating can't be both a cause and a symptom of the same issue, it is caused by some other issue, usually psychological like anxiety and then in turn causes other issues or intensifies the one you have (like insecurity, low self-esteem etc that cause more anxiety), so you are stuck in a vicious cycle. Maybe by fasting you manage to break it and it's the beginning of a different life for you, which I hope it does. It's just that many times, people treat a symptom and forget the initial cause and after a period of time, something happens and it's triggered again and they find themselves spiraling again. 

All I'm saying is to make sure you deal with any psychological issues along with your lifestyle change. There are so many things buried inside that we think we're over, until they resurface and screw us over again.

Eating little, as much as your body needs and not more is a great feeling really. I understand the difference because when I eat less I don't feel drowsy and tired afterwards and it's a great feeling to just be energized enough to continue the day. I don't like that bloated feeling but it's hard to understand when to stop, even though I've definitely improved over the last year.


----------



## Red Panda

TerminalDancer said:


> On Becoming Superhuman: Fasting for Fast Weight Loss, Better Health, and Supreme Fitness
> 
> Here's a good one. More to come
> 
> On Becoming Superhuman: Fasting for Fast Weight Loss, Better Health, and Supreme Fitness
> 
> Oh,and this one is great Erowid Experience Vaults: Fasting - Intense Challenges, Amazing Effects - 52150


I want to try IF but how does one get over the hungeeeer??


----------



## Indiana Dan

Red Panda said:


> I want to try IF but how does one get over the hungeeeer??



No pain, no gain. You will experience many pangs of hunger. Appx every few hours. Each one that you overcome is like you climbing another step on the ladder to better well-being and personal strength/self image. And the spirituality that you will experience is amazing. You will really realize how good it feels to be spiritually connected with the world, and how foods separates us. 

I Have a lot of experience denying myself of things because I have been through so many addictions. The goal here is simple: Deny yourself of calories. The less, the better. I would recommend NO calories for 1 day. That's no breakfast, lunch dinner...NOTHIN'. I think I might do this a couple days a week. That's like 2000 calories that your body has burned, mostly fat. THIS, my friends, is how we get work done. If you have a physical job, work will be very difficult. If you have a sedentary job it should be no problem at all. Hell, it might be easier because your brain will be in better working order.


----------



## Indiana Dan

Actually, @Red Panda, I changed my mind. Don't start off with none. Start off one day with only breakfast. This way you have at least a reward and some fuel to start your day off with. Then go as long as you can from that point forward.. I would encourage you to go at least until the next morning. You might feel the urge to binge.. Like you deserve it. Try to control it. It's all part of the process of understanding how food is supposed to fit into our lives, but at the same time having the instinctual desire to eat whatever is available to us. It ain't easy to balance it!

There's so my ways to do it.. but at the same time, theres only one.. To reduce calories. It's kind of a personal,intimate thing... Whichever way you wanna do it. My goal really is to just spread the wealth of uncommon knowledge that I have about health. I might be called insane or unreasonable along the way, but oh well. I'm a crusader.. None of those comments will stop me. The truth that i see is far too entertaining 


Another thing about reducing caloric intake: You must make sure you are eating healthy since you are getting less calories to provide you with nutrition. It's all part of a better life, though the thought may seem to suck at first.


----------



## Red Panda

TerminalDancer said:


> Actually, @Red Panda, I changed my mind. Don't start off with none. Start off one day with only breakfast. This way you have at least a reward and some fuel to start your day off with. Then go as long as you can from that point forward.. I would encourage you to go at least until the next morning. You might feel the urge to binge.. Like you deserve it. Try to control it. It's all part of the process of understanding how food is supposed to fit into our lives, but at the same time having the instinctual desire to eat whatever is available to us. It ain't easy to balance it!
> 
> There's so my ways to do it.. but at the same time, theres only one.. To reduce calories. It's kind of a personal,intimate thing... Whichever way you wanna do it. My goal really is to just spread the wealth of uncommon knowledge that I have about health. I might be called insane or unreasonable along the way, but oh well. I'm a crusader.. None of those comments will stop me. The truth that i see is far too entertaining
> 
> 
> Another thing about reducing caloric intake: You must make sure you are eating healthy since you are getting less calories to provide you with nutrition. It's all part of a better life, though the thought may seem to suck at first.


Seems like a better idea to have a breakfast, because some times when i do stay fasted until afternoon, for other reasons, I feel weak, anxious and shake a bit which is probably hypoglycemia. I wouldn't mind it but usually in the morning I have class which means I have to either walk and take bus or drive, so it's kinda dangerous to have hypoglycemia in those cases. If I'm home or close by I don't mind. For example, today I had 400ml skim milk with chocolate at 10am then ate again at 16.00.
I definitely will try some form of fasting in the following days, but probably the no breakfast option because it's easier to avoid food in the morning rather than when it's cooked and ready to be devoured in the afternoon


----------



## Indiana Dan

Red Panda said:


> Seems like a better idea to have a breakfast, because some times when i do stay fasted until afternoon, for other reasons, I feel weak, anxious and shake a bit which is probably hypoglycemia. I wouldn't mind it but usually in the morning I have class which means I have to either walk and take bus or drive, so it's kinda dangerous to have hypoglycemia in those cases. If I'm home or close by I don't mind. For example, today I had 400ml skim milk with chocolate at 10am then ate again at 16.00.
> I definitely will try some form of fasting in the following days, but probably the no breakfast option because it's easier to avoid food in the morning rather than when it's cooked and ready to be devoured in the afternoon


Although it could very well be hypoglycemia that you are experiencing for a short period, it would be best to just keep fasting through any of those sensations (unless you have a health condition.. You know your body better than I). Your liver will soon come to the rescue and begin releasing it's stored sugar. Your blood sugar levels will be lower on average than if you were eating 'normally', but it will be adequate.. There wont be any hypoglycemia going on. The body is equipped rather nicely to operate under conditions of temporary caloric absenc. It is when you feel those uncomfortable feelings of hunger/low blood sugar, that is when your body is changing it's operating parameter, so think of it as a good thing.

You will just be living at a slower, more spiritual and observant state, rather than the all-American 'gung-ho', balls too the ball mentality. The more we can integrate this way of living into our lives, the healthier, more rational, and more content we will be. 

Best of luck to you!


----------



## Red Panda

TerminalDancer said:


> Although it could very well be hypoglycemia that you are experiencing for a short period, it would be best to just keep fasting through any of those sensations (unless you have a health condition.. You know your body better than I). Your liver will soon come to the rescue and begin releasing it's stored sugar. Your blood sugar levels will be lower on average than if you were eating 'normally', but it will be adequate.. There wont be any hypoglycemia going on. The body is equipped rather nicely to operate under conditions of temporary caloric absenc. It is when you feel those uncomfortable feelings of hunger/low blood sugar, that is when your body is changing it's operating parameter, so think of it as a good thing.
> 
> You will just be living at a slower, more spiritual and observant state, rather than the all-American 'gung-ho', balls too the ball mentality. The more we can integrate this way of living into our lives, the healthier, more rational, and more content we will be.
> 
> Best of luck to you!



Thanks 
Good luck to you too :happy:

I'm not American though


----------



## Indiana Dan

Red Panda said:


> Thanks
> Good luck to you too :happy:
> 
> I'm not American though


Ohh snap! There are people out there that aren't American!? I should have known when you said the last time you ate today was 1600 (4pm), when it's only 1200 here.


----------



## Red Panda

TerminalDancer said:


> Ohh snap! There are people out there that aren't American!? I should have known when you said the last time you ate today was 1600 (4pm), when it's only 1200 here.


Hahah that's okay :tongue:


----------



## chip

TerminalDancer said:


> Abusing food GIVES you insulin resistance. Then you continue to overeat in order to keep the blood sugar flowing, regardless of insulin sensitivity, which is compounding the issue. You must stop this behavior before your diabetes gets worse. Fasting would be THE BEST possible thing for you to do. Try it, please. It's very hard to get started, but you will begin to see the benefits and you will love it. No pain, no gain.


I do feel good when I fast all day but then at night, I feel like I'm going to faint. The reason I said I abuse food because I have IR is because I feel I need foods that are bad for me only because it is the closest thing that I can reach for to get my blood sugar back up.


----------



## chip

Red Panda said:


> Seems like a better idea to have a breakfast, because some times when i do stay fasted until afternoon, for other reasons, I feel weak, anxious and shake a bit which is probably hypoglycemia. I wouldn't mind it but usually in the morning I have class which means I have to either walk and take bus or drive, so it's kinda dangerous to have hypoglycemia in those cases. If I'm home or close by I don't mind. For example, today I had 400ml skim milk with chocolate at 10am then ate again at 16.00.
> I definitely will try some form of fasting in the following days, but probably the no breakfast option because it's easier to avoid food in the morning rather than when it's cooked and ready to be devoured in the afternoon



You also may have food allergies. Milk is not good, it actually is really bad for calcium because it gets rid of magnesium anyway, it leeches calcium and has TONS of sugar especially chocolate. You are drinking caffeine which is horrid for low blood sugar!  Please try the hypoglycemic diet. I feel the same way, too..and you are probably having casein found in milk which can give people with blood sugar problems an allergic reaction because you probably are damaged by gluten this is mostly the case, because we all abuse gluten and other foods in that category. 

I can't fast, either or I feel really sick eventually.


----------



## unINFalliPle

TerminalDancer said:


> Fasting is hands down the most effective way to repair your health. Food takes a lot of vital energy to digest/process/metabolize. So basically.. When you eat, you are providing your body with fuel to burn, but it takes energy to process new fuel. Fasting means that with no food to be digested, your body takes that digestion energy and puts it towards repairing the body, and stress levels are lower. Also, your mental power/ health increases noticeably.
> 
> When you fast, your body burns fat for fuel. There around about 3500 cals in a pound of fat FYI. So it's also a super fast and healthy way to lose weight. Is is why people can fast for a month or longer. Muscle does not get used for fuel until fat is gone. Of course, you won't have any new protein coming in, so you not be getting any new muscle, and of course the natural degradation of your old muscle. But that would be fasting for a really long time.
> 
> Fasting is like cleaning and organizing the house.. The house being your body. That extra energy diverted to healing is really needed and appreciated by the body. Study about the benefits of fasting! It's not easy, but it's THE REAL DEAL on getting in shape and having the body you want and need. This isn't some Jenny Craig bullshit.. This is how you take care of business.


While it does take energy to take in food, food also gives you energy. I really enjoy food and I feel more energized once I have eaten. I often feel cranky and miserable when I'm without food. So, it still seems absurd to me. The feeling of hunger isn't a pleasant one. Surely, when you fast, it'd be there, so I don't get the appeal. How long do you mean fasting for? A bit of time seems okay. But more than a day seems excessive. I thought there were bad things being done to the stomach too, when fasting. When people try ridiculous dieting by not eating, it messes with them. Exercise if you want to do well for your body. I'm personally not interested in fasting, so I wouldn't research more into it, but I'm still surprised. You have given some good information, but it's still hard to wrap my mind around.


----------



## Red Panda

chip said:


> You also may have food allergies. Milk is not good, it actually is really bad for calcium because it gets rid of magnesium anyway, it leeches calcium and has TONS of sugar especially chocolate. You are drinking caffeine which is horrid for low blood sugar!  Please try the hypoglycemic diet. I feel the same way, too..and you are probably having casein found in milk which can give people with blood sugar problems an allergic reaction because you probably are damaged by gluten this is mostly the case, because we all abuse gluten and other foods in that category.
> 
> I can't fast, either or I feel really sick eventually.


Calcium and magnesium do bind together, but it's not much of a problem if you take enough of both separately, or even together since there's always a portion of it absorbed by the intestine. I eat a lot of cheese so calcium isn't much of a problem, I just like the chocolate milk in the morning to wake me up. I'm definitely not allergic to milk, and as for gluten I don't know, I haven't felt anything noticeable from consuming it but I do avoid it when I can, and usually only eat wheat as a main course, not during the rest of the day.

When I lived alone there were days that I was bored to fix something for breakfast so I ate at noon, which basically meant I was fasted for ~14 hours maybe more and didn't really feel anything bad, besides hunger, and not that strong either. I'm quite sure that hypoglycemia for me happens when I stay without food while generally my body is used to getting it certain hours. So it's only a matter of getting used to it, and the body will learn to utilize my generous amount of fat better.


----------



## Indiana Dan

unINFalliPle said:


> While it does take energy to take in food, food also gives you energy. I really enjoy food and I feel more energized once I have eaten. I often feel cranky and miserable when I'm without food. So, it still seems absurd to me. The feeling of hunger isn't a pleasant one. Surely, when you fast, it'd be there, so I don't get the appeal. How long do you mean fasting for? A bit of time seems okay. But more than a day seems excessive. I thought there were bad things being done to the stomach too, when fasting. When people try ridiculous dieting by not eating, it messes with them. Exercise if you want to do well for your body. I'm personally not interested in fasting, so I wouldn't research more into it, but I'm still surprised. You have given some good information, but it's still hard to wrap my mind around.


No pain, no gain. Even very healthy people will benefit from fasting; although the fast may only need to be a short duration of 1-2 days to get great benefits. THE BENEFITS ARE BOTH MENTAL AND PHYSICAL. Fasting provides profound mental and spiritual healing that can only be experienced by.. well... not eating! Fasting! As your mind is directed away from the thought of your next meal, at the same time blood flow is increased to the brain (due to none being needed for digestion) which gives you enhanced mental power and great control and connectivity with your existence.

The physical healing occurs as the vital energy that is normally used for food digestion is diverted to healing problem areas in the body..stuff you didn't even know about. We tend to think of ideas like 'I'm healthy' or 'I'm unhealthy', but really there are a million shades of healthy and not healthy. The body knows exactly what to do when the energy becomes available to repair. The body and mind are one, btw. Fasting illustrates this principle.

I hear many people say '..but it's uncomfortable! Why would anyone do this?'

It's uncomfortable to exercise, too. Why do people do it? Because it makes them stronger, better people. Once you begin associating the pain with getting stronger and better, it's much easier to grasp the idea and act on it. 

In exercise, there is the 'endorphin/ adrenaline high'. There is a very similar phenomenon with fasting.. after you go a certain period of time.. say 12 hours without eating, you will feel good. This feeling will last a period of time and then you will start to feel kinda rough again. This is when I typically end my fasts, as I believe that is my body telling me to stop fasting. Much like when my body tells me to stop running. You gotta listen.. but you also gotta push yourself and be true to success and strength.

It IS a difficult idea to wrap our minds around, but maann it's a gold mine once you figure out how it works and how to use it to your advantage


----------



## Impavida

unINFalliPle said:


> While it does take energy to take in food, food also gives you energy. I really enjoy food and I feel more energized once I have eaten. I often feel cranky and miserable when I'm without food. So, it still seems absurd to me. The feeling of hunger isn't a pleasant one. Surely, when you fast, it'd be there, so I don't get the appeal. How long do you mean fasting for? A bit of time seems okay. But more than a day seems excessive. I thought there were bad things being done to the stomach too, when fasting. When people try ridiculous dieting by not eating, it messes with them. Exercise if you want to do well for your body. I'm personally not interested in fasting, so I wouldn't research more into it, but I'm still surprised. You have given some good information, but it's still hard to wrap my mind around.


I'll feel hungry the first day of a fast as my stomach contracts back to a healthy size. After that, I don't even notice it. Fasting is 90% mental and 10% physical. If a person isn't in the right head space, they won't last a day. It's interesting because if I'm not fasting and I miss a meal, I'll also be very cranky and short-tempered. I never get that when I'm fasting though because I'm mentally prepared to go with less food.

People who have been living off a very unhealthy diet, will often find Days 2-3 really difficult in a fast as well. They'll feel nauseous, dizzy, have headaches. That's the detox phase as the body flushes out all the garbage that has been building up. Past that it becomes much easier.

Also, in terms of how long to fast - if you're not going to eat anything at all you should never fast for more than 2-3 days at a time. If you're doing caloric restriction, you can fast indefinitely as long as what you do eat is *healthy and nutrient rich*. You cannot eat garbage while doing caloric restriction without causing health problems. You also need to do occasional re-feeds and pay close attention to your body. Plus, you need to drink a lot of water when fasting.

I'm currently on Day 8 of my caloric restriction fast. I had one re-feed day, but apart from that I've been having only fruit smoothies, vegetable juice and salads. Weight loss isn't the goal of a fast, but it is a happy side effect. I do it for the other benefits. Things that I've noticed so far: my skin is glowing, my hair is shinier, my mood has improved drastically, my cravings for sugary and fatty foods are gone, I have more energy, my focus is better, and I've lost about 7lbs. The non-health benefits: I have more free time since I'm spending less time cooking and I'm saving money (fewer groceries to buy!). Having a clear mind spills over into other areas of my life as well. It motivates me to clear my surroundings. I've been cleaning house and de-cluttering my home and office so that my physical space matches my mental space.

I highly recommend fasting, but do research it before you dive in. You need to be aware of what's happening in your body so that you know what's a healthy response and what's not.


----------



## Indiana Dan

I agree with everything stated by @_jayde_. She's a great sidekick  she remembers the details that I overlook. I suppose that's the differnces between an INTJ and an INFJ! I just tend to feel things out for truth and then TRY to explain my understanding.. Lol.


I can really tell you are in caloric deficit due to the clarity and truth of what you have said in your post. Your progress and status is awesome and inspiring!

Since I have broken my original fast that started this thread, what I have been doing is skipping lunch. I'll eat a breakfast of like 1000 calories consisting of oatmeal/granola with soy milk and then an item that contains a lot of protein.. And then somtimes fruit. I know the cereal is probably not very necessary and is not very nutrient-rich.. It's kind of like candy.. A reward to start the day I guess. I think it's hurting me cuz it's like 450 cals.. But it tastes so damn good!

Anyways then at dinner I cook a mass amount of veggies (lightly cook in stir fry pan with light Asian sauce). I am convinced that veggies are very important to eat a lot of. I have been studying how humans really don't need to eat meat. My final stance is that we don't NEED to, but a guy like me who does strength training could benefit from some meat every few days.

My question is... What is all this fuss about protein!? How often do we actually NEED large amounts of protein like what meat is composed of? .. Assuming you eat a ton of plant material/veggies like me(which contains protein).

The reason I ask this question is that one of the reasons I stopped my heavy duty fasting was that I became worried with the thought that I would be losing my muscle mass if I didn't have adequate protein intake. 

While fasting, my testosterone levels are higher are working out feels good, but when it comes time to eat, what will be sufficient to give me energy to fuel the next day or 2 and ALSO repair the torn muscle? It's a tough balancing act. The problem is that I want to eliminate any calories that are not necessary.

I am starting to formulate a plan here. I think I will only eat bulk protein a couple times a week (weekend, perhaps?) and then just stick to a light load of eating mostly veggies the rest of the week. Something tells me that our bodies just don't need the amount of protein that people have been pushing for the past couple of decades. I think the muscles remain in a torn state until the protein becomes available, and then the repair/growth is done. Also, I think I will be able to feel when I need mass protein.. It's not just a complete guessing game.

Ok and another thing.. Why is fruit necessary? I know they contain B vitamins and such. But can I get by without them? I'm sure the answer is 'no'.. But why? Ok.. The potassium in a banana. Is the purpose of fruit just to provide a healthy fibrous flow of glucose during the day? If that is the only reason, and the rest of the vits and minerals they contain can be obtained through vegetables, then I will reduce my fruit intake (which isn't too much anyway). Except for the almighty banana.

Can anyone shed some light on this?


----------



## Indiana Dan

Just bought sublingual vit B complex.. I know the 'food route' is better.. But I will just have to prove that with time.

Edit:

Ok, update on the fruit question.

I found the answer http://www.mindbodygreen.com/0-4970/The-Major-Rule-for-Eating-Fruit.html

I will have to replace my cereal with fruit.. At least on some days. If you read the article, it explains that it is important to eat fruit on an empty stomach. 

Eating fruit instead of cereal will provide me with more nutrition than cereal, and less calories so that I can get more protein.. Like these delicious babies:


----------



## lemurs

Read leangains.com. If you want to make fasting a part of your life, then you can follow the 16/8 hour fasting strategy. That is, every single day you eat all your meals within an 8-hour window, then fast (water only) the rest of the time. This can do wonders for you (especially if you are eating right), and is very healthy.


----------



## Indiana Dan

lemurs said:


> Read leangains.com. If you want to make fasting a part of your life, then you can follow the 16/8 hour fasting strategy. That is, every single day you eat all your meals within an 8-hour window, then fast (water only) the rest of the time. This can do wonders for you (especially if you are eating right), and is very healthy.


Thank you sir for your post. 

I am doing something similar.. I'm eating in the a.m., stopping at Appx 8:00, then no calories until dinner.. 6:30 or so. So that's around 10 hrs of not eating, ensuring that all of the fuel is used and some fat burning is done, and the mental benefits of fasting are acquired daily. I also go to the gym most week days and do 400-500 cals of cardio. I get most of my strength training in at work.. Pushups and dips. Pull ups at home.


----------



## Impavida

TerminalDancer said:


> I agree with everything stated by @_jayde_. She's a great sidekick  she remembers the details that I overlook. I suppose that's the differnces between an INTJ and an INFJ! I just tend to feel things out for truth and then TRY to explain my understanding.. Lol.


Why thank you  

Here's an interesting answer to your protein question: The Truth on How Much Protein You Really Need Per Day to Build Muscle | The IF Life

When I'm not fasting, I tend to be pretty close to the paleo diet. I didn't intentionally set out to follow that one. I found out after the fact that it was basically what I was doing. No grains, no sugar, no soy, no corn, no dairy, no red meat. Grains and dairy are the tough ones. I still occasionally have some bread. I can't live without cheese though. My compromise is to only eat cheese made from organic raw milk instead of pasteurized, so it's slightly healthier.



lemurs said:


> Read leangains.com. If you want to make fasting a part of your life, then you can follow the 16/8 hour fasting strategy. That is, every single day you eat all your meals within an 8-hour window, then fast (water only) the rest of the time. This can do wonders for you (especially if you are eating right), and is very healthy.


I'm pretty close to following that 16/8 cycle as well. Not intentionally - it just works out that way. I'm probably closer to 14/10 though. Trying to do 16/8 would be pretty tough with my work schedule.


----------



## Indiana Dan

Today I had the sensation like my eyes were open for the first tme to see the beauty of the world. I'm hooked on IF! For someone with an all-or-nothing mentality/ personality like me, this is the best way.


----------



## chip

TerminalDancer said:


> Today I had the sensation like my eyes were open for the first tme to see the beauty of the world. I'm hooked on IF! For someone with an all-or-nothing mentality/ personality like me, this is the best way.



What is IF?


----------



## Indiana Dan

chip said:


> What is IF?



Oh, sorry. Intermittent Fasting. I shall be referring to denying one's self of calories until there are none left to burn as 'IF' from now on.


----------



## KaleidoskopicVision

Good for you TerminalDancer! I just finished a 7 day fast, the first two days were 'dry' meaning I went without water as well as food and the next 5 I just drank water. It was a very cleansing and spiritually refreshing time. I had planned to go longer but my body told me not to. Be sure not to hurt yourself. Asceticism is a fine line between self discipline and self abuse. 

Intermittent fasting is definitely the safer way to go but I don't think anything can beat a proper long fast. If you're not making ketone bodies, you're not really fasting yet (or you have a very unfortunate genetic disability )


----------



## Impavida

Congrats on completing your fast @KaleidoskopicVision 

The thing that's great about IF as well is that there are so many ways to do it. A common schedule is EOD (every other day fasting), otherwise there's the 16/8 that was mentioned before. There's also the 5/2 - 5 days of eating 2 days of fasting per week. Basically people just find whatever schedule works for them and then stick with it.

This intro is on the same site that I linked to before. It gives a good overview of IF: Intermittent Fasting 101 – How to Start Burning Fat | The IF Life


----------



## chip

TerminalDancer said:


> That's great! If you are able to completely fast for a few days, you will notice TONS of improvements and changes happening in your body. Fasting is nature's natural maintenance cycle for the body. And man does it do a good job!


Well, this is gross but I think the same thing happens to women during their *special* time, lol. They get cleaned out. Only unhealthy women get bad monthly cycles, if at all.


----------



## Indiana Dan

I have had yet another awesome observation. 

Since my earlier fasts like the one that started this and the 2 weeks that I skipped lunch, I have been eating a LOT more vegetables, including dark leafy greens. These foods contain a ton of nutrients that life thrives on. You can tell by looking at my skin completion, my healthy nails, my fingertips are bright red with circulation, and last but certainly not least..my mood is soo much higher than it used to be.

Now on this fast, I am 28 hours in with no calories, and I do not feel anywhere near the lethargy or _hunger_ like that of my previous fasts. The reason? Because my diet is so good. You see, I am starting to realize that a sensation of true hunger is caused by a craving for _nutrients*. *_My body is well stocked with nutrients and therefore I feel fine without eating. I feel it would be only responsible of me to continue this fast until i get a _true _feeling of hunger. We'll see. I'll stay true no matter what.


----------



## Indiana Dan

I guess this thread has just turned into a showcase for my instability and insanity eh? Nevertheless, I am getting closer to health and sanity all the time. I'm just not up to most people's standards yet. When I first quit drinking I estimated that it would take me until I am 30 or so to be the person I want to be. I spent 5 years demolishing my health, it will take me 5 years to rebuild it. That's pretty much a guarantee. Thanks for all the responses and attention, I appreciate it.


----------



## Indiana Dan

Well ok this thread is about as interesting as a dead squirrel in the road but I guess I'll keep posting..

I am a full 48 hours in with no calories!!

That's all I have to say. I'm going to work


----------



## chip

TerminalDancer said:


> Well ok this thread is about as interesting as a dead squirrel in the road but I guess I'll keep posting..
> 
> I am a full 48 hours in with no calories!!
> 
> That's all I have to say. I'm going to work


When you do eat, now you know to eat healthily  I have tried to not crave bad shit but it just doesn't work, not even with fasting  perhaps I have not fasted long enough but I get weak and sleep often if I fast for long enough.


----------



## Indiana Dan

chip said:


> When you do eat, now you know to eat healthily  I have tried to not crave bad shit but it just doesn't work, not even with fasting  perhaps I have not fasted long enough but I get weak and sleep often if I fast for long enough.


Thanks chip! Yes I will definitely be eating healthy when the time comes. Vegetables.


----------



## Indiana Dan

I am beginning to feel mystical, lol. Rather slow and low energy, but mystical. And good. I would like to think I can keep this up for another full day, but we'll see. I made myself a huge plate of vegetables yesterday that I convinced myself I was going to cook and eat, but then one of my housemates asked me if I wanted to go to kereoke night, so I did that instead! I'm glad I was given the opportunity to divert my mind. Something tells me I will not feel completely satisfied with myself unless I go longer with this fast.


----------



## Indiana Dan

Ok guys I have decided that I will end the fast tonight with a big bowl of veggies! I'm satisfied and proud.

You will most likely not be seeing many, if any more posts from me on this thread. I have decided that I am tired of having to do these fasts. The lesson here is that I simply cannot binge on the weekend anymore. The price is too high and it screws up my personal growth progress. The weed and the caffeine will have to be regulated tighter on the weekend. I will need to find a way to feel the natural beauty and pleasure of life with the absence of those substances, because they cause overeating. Both of them.

This food issue is a very big one and it is not easy or fun to face it. One step at a time, one step at a time. 

I will still continue the 'skip lunch' diet that I had in place.. It was working very well for me. Thank you all for putting up with my thread.

edit:

total fast time from last item that was eaten: 57 hours. Now time for those veggies.


----------



## Indiana Dan

I'm not tired of the fasts actually. I realized today that it is actually the same phenomenon as exercising. It's the same feeling of doing pushups or pullups or whatever.. starts off easy, then gets harder, then you keep going and it's like ahh!!! And then you have reached a new strength. So in other words I will be continuing them. Not overly frequently, but I will be certainly continuing them. I am noticing a trend of the fasts getting stronger and longer each time.. due to a number of lifestyle factors.


----------



## Indiana Dan

Fasting is fuckin' incredible. Can't wait to start my next one. Next Monday probably, or maybe I'll wait another week. We'll see.


Here is a super good page that tells the truth:
http://www.falconblanco.com/health/fasting.htm

Edit: ok I'm gonna try to just 'edit' so I don't keep bumping an unpopular thread.

Got a couple things on my mind:

1. I'm getting rid of my so called 'health' cereals. They are too high in sugar content. I will be replacing them with a bowl of steel cut oats with a bunch of added fruit like bananas, strawberries, blueberries. High sugar content causes high insulin response.. Don't want that.

2. I am getting rid of all meat from my diet. I realize now that eating meat is a big problem.. And it's disgusting. I will be much better without it.

My pushups have gone from an average of 40 up to 50 pushups on first reps since I began these dietary and lifestyle changes. Noteworthy improvement..


----------



## Impavida

So I'm now 3 weeks into this new eating routine and it's working ridiculously well. The cycle is restricted calories for 4-5 days, then 1 day at maintenance.

I've twice now had to talk myself down from a junk food binge. McDonald's is not a part of my usual eating routine, but for some reason whenever I switch to a healthy nutrition plan I end  up having random cravings for it. I'm guessing it's either the sugar or the quick calorie hit that tempts me. Or both. Not really sure... Either way I've been successful at talking myself out of those moments this time. Feels good to be in control 

Also, I had a business meeting yesterday with a few colleagues I haven't seen in a couple of months. Everyone commented on how healthy and vibrant I'm looking. That was great encouragement.

I've been recovering from an injury for the last few weeks and haven't been doing any running. Although I have done a couple of nice long hikes. Anyway, leg is healed, and I'll be doing my first run tonight after a month off. Historically, I've always done my best running first thing in the morning before eating breakfast, so I know that I can do endurance training in a fasted state. That was at a normal calorie intake though, so we'll see if there's any difference while doing the restriction. Should be interesting...


----------



## chip

jayde said:


> So I'm now 3 weeks into this new eating routine and it's working ridiculously well. The cycle is restricted calories for 4-5 days, then 1 day at maintenance.
> 
> I've twice now had to talk myself down from a junk food binge. McDonald's is not a part of my usual eating routine, but for some reason whenever I switch to a healthy nutrition plan I end up having random cravings for it. I'm guessing it's either the sugar or the quick calorie hit that tempts me. Or both. Not really sure... Either way I've been successful at talking myself out of those moments this time. Feels good to be in control
> 
> Also, I had a business meeting yesterday with a few colleagues I haven't seen in a couple of months. Everyone commented on how healthy and vibrant I'm looking. That was great encouragement.
> 
> I've been recovering from an injury for the last few weeks and haven't been doing any running. Although I have done a couple of nice long hikes. Anyway, leg is healed, and I'll be doing my first run tonight after a month off. Historically, I've always done my best running first thing in the morning before eating breakfast, so I know that I can do endurance training in a fasted state. That was at a normal calorie intake though, so we'll see if there's any difference while doing the restriction. Should be interesting...



Even if you have never eaten a lot of mcdonalds, anything with gluten in it has an opiate drug effect because gluten has opioids. I probably spelled that wrong, but sugar also has the effect of withdrawal so you crave these things because of that, and for some other reasons, too. Just keep at you current diet and I think you will break the habit.


----------



## Indiana Dan

jayde said:


> So I'm now 3 weeks into this new eating routine and it's working ridiculously well. The cycle is restricted calories for 4-5 days, then 1 day at maintenance.
> 
> I've twice now had to talk myself down from a junk food binge. McDonald's is not a part of my usual eating routine, but for some reason whenever I switch to a healthy nutrition plan I end up having random cravings for it. I'm guessing it's either the sugar or the quick calorie hit that tempts me. Or both. Not really sure... Either way I've been successful at talking myself out of those moments this time. Feels good to be in control
> 
> Also, I had a business meeting yesterday with a few colleagues I haven't seen in a couple of months. Everyone commented on how healthy and vibrant I'm looking. That was great encouragement.
> 
> I've been recovering from an injury for the last few weeks and haven't been doing any running. Although I have done a couple of nice long hikes. Anyway, leg is healed, and I'll be doing my first run tonight after a month off. Historically, I've always done my best running first thing in the morning before eating breakfast, so I know that I can do endurance training in a fasted state. That was at a normal calorie intake though, so we'll see if there's any difference while doing the restriction. Should be interesting...


Nice! Way to go!


----------



## Impavida

chip said:


> Even if you have never eaten a lot of mcdonalds, anything with gluten in it has an opiate drug effect because gluten has opioids. I probably spelled that wrong, but sugar also has the effect of withdrawal so you crave these things because of that, and for some other reasons, too. Just keep at you current diet and I think you will break the habit.


Yup, the opioids are definitely one of the main reasons people struggle so much to remove gluten from their diets. That and it tastes good!  

The physical addiction is easy to break. It's the psychological one that's harder to overcome.


----------



## Impavida

TerminalDancer said:


> 1. I'm getting rid of my so called 'health' cereals. They are too high in sugar content. I will be replacing them with a bowl of steel cut oats with a bunch of added fruit like bananas, strawberries, blueberries. High sugar content causes high insulin response.. Don't want that.
> 
> 2. I am getting rid of all meat from my diet. I realize now that eating meat is a big problem.. And it's disgusting. I will be much better without it.
> 
> My pushups have gone from an average of 40 up to 50 pushups on first reps since I began these dietary and lifestyle changes. Noteworthy improvement..


Good call on the cereals. That was a tough one for me to break. However, I cut dairy out of my diet several months ago which helped immensely. I use coconut milk now instead and it's just way too sweet for me to drink it on its own or use on cereal (even unsweetened coconut milk is pretty damn sweet). No milk = no cereal. Double win 

As for meat...I haven't intentionally removed it from my diet, but I've pretty much ended up there. Red meat has always been a special occasion food for me (I love it, but my digestive system doesn't!) so that was already out. White meat is fine, but I just haven't been eating it much at all. I still eat fish and some poultry now and then, but I'm probably 95% vegetarian now. I'm an accidental vegetarian 

Congrats on the improved push-ups by the way. It's always nice to have measurable indicators of improvement.


----------



## Indiana Dan

jayde said:


> Good call on the cereals. That was a tough one for me to break. However, I cut dairy out of my diet several months ago which helped immensely. I use coconut milk now instead and it's just way too sweet for me to drink it on its own or use on cereal (even unsweetened coconut milk is pretty damn sweet). No milk = no cereal. Double win
> 
> As for meat...I haven't intentionally removed it from my diet, but I've pretty much ended up there. Red meat has always been a special occasion food for me (I love it, but my digestive system doesn't!) so that was already out. White meat is fine, but I just haven't been eating it much at all. I still eat fish and some poultry now and then, but I'm probably 95% vegetarian now. I'm an accidental vegetarian
> 
> Congrats on the improved push-ups by the way. It's always nice to have measurable indicators of improvement.


Thanks 

I quit dairy milk a few months ago.. Never looked back. Been using soy milk ever since. 

I don't think I want to quit meat completely.. It's just that I have been reading about the parasites that are present in meat.. I guess especially red meat. I really hardly EVER eat red meat anymore anyway. But what about stuff like (wild caught) salmon, tuna, etc? I still eat those.. I hope it's ok. I'm not really a fan of chicken, so no problem there.


----------



## Indiana Dan

Lol..Ok, guys.. I'm starting another little fast again. I'm having too much fun to stop now. I look and feel too good to stop now. I'm planning on going to a punk show tomorrow with my band and I want to be fully energized. I'll wait until Friday night and then I'll have a piece of dark chocolate. Woo!!

Until then, I will entertain myself with this thread & the fascinating implications of lifestyles. Also, I just started reading.. My first book: the Life of Pi. I can't concentrate worth a shit unless im in a fasted state anyhow. One of my curses..


----------

Eat a bunch of wholesome and nutritious food that will cover all the bases and provide energy for a couple days, then go to work & exercise- completely burn all the fuel and proceed to fasted/meditative resting state, repeat. This is the cycle I am finding myself heading towards. Gonna be awesome!!

------------

Ok my friends.... Update:

I have decided to be a vegetarian- including no fish. This's is going to make my life so much better!! It's a great day to be alive! I feel like this realization is going to be worth a lot for so many reasons. I'll expand on it as my thoughts emerge.

1. Meat contains parasites, which are disgusting and drain you of precious energy.
2. Eating meat makes 'eating' more of an addictive pleasure activity than I believe it was intended to be.
3.it will be easier to keep a grip on my calories.
4. My nutrition will inevitably increase as I will have more available calories to eat and I will be forced to eat a wider variety of foods.
5. Tons of other health benefits
6. I hate suffering, and that includes animals.

Not going vegan.. Just vegetarian.


----------



## Impavida

Interesting anecdote: Before starting this new eating system, I was no stranger to fine dining. I've always liked good food. I found it was all starting to become a bit "blah" though. I have some family visiting from out of town, so we decided to go out to a nice restaurant as a farewell meal last night. After a month of eating very simply and in limited quantities, the meal last night was absolutely divine! By making fine dining a treat instead of a staple, it was so much more enjoyable.

As for the new eating system, it continues to work extremely well. My energy levels are great, my last blood panel was completely normal, and in fact better than it was even when I was running triathlons. Oh, and running on the my reduced calorie intake has been going really well. All systems are awesome!


----------



## Indiana Dan

That's great to hear, @_jayde_. I have never felt better either! Especially since going vegetarian.

Im going on another fast. Beginning tomorrow morning, ending Friday morning. Tonight I will get my vitamins fom leafy greens & veggies, my protein from chic peas and maybe cottage cheese. For dessert I'll have a nice bowl of steel cut oats with bananas and blueberries! It will be a feast indeed!

I also intend on completing a good workout session this evening before I eat so that I may feel good about getting that out of my way while my physical energy is high.

then.. Tomorrow onto the pain and the spiritual cleansing. 2 days of 0 calories. I need the mental power so I can write an awesome song. I ain't gettin any younger.. Gotta get stuff done NOW!



You know the most special reason for why I fast? Because it lowers my ego. People like me more because I am consuming less, and it is quite apparent, though not obvious. The world will not give me any shit while i am in a fasted state because it values and respects my self-less efforts. It gives me time to evaluate my true purpose, path, and my actions very objectively. It allows me to think on a level that is superior to everyone around me. Though they have the physical power and agility, I have mental power, which is even greater.


----------



## Indiana Dan

Just letting yall know I'm abandoning the fast. It doesn't feel right, it's not the right time. I don't feel like I'm ready. My diet has been so good lately I guess that I don't quite feel the need yet.


----------



## chip

TerminalDancer said:


> Just letting yall know I'm abandoning the fast. It doesn't feel right, it's not the right time. I don't feel like I'm ready. My diet has been so good lately I guess that I don't quite feel the need yet.


Tell me I am wrong, but I think it is because fasting is a means to reset the body into actually craving the foods we were born to eat, because essentially our diets are made up of drug like foods that cause us to crave them like we are junkies. It is a withdrawal detoxing period, the fasting is.


----------



## Indiana Dan

chip said:


> Tell me I am wrong, but I think it is because fasting is a means to reset the body into actually craving the foods we were born to eat, because essentially our diets are made up of drug like foods that cause us to crave them like we are junkies. It is a withdrawal detoxing period, the fasting is.


Yes, chip I would highly agree with you.

Since I did those couple of fasts and I have changed my diet to all veggies (plus some eggs and cheese occasionally), not only have I felt so much better, but I also can feel/ foresee that continued fasting will not provide quite the same benefit as it did when I was more toxic/ had bad diet. 

I still know that fasting holds tremendous value and potential no matter what your diet, but I'm just having too much fun learning about healthy eating right now to fast. I'm _finally_​ having fun in my life


----------



## Indiana Dan

It looks like the next fasts I will embark on will be _LONGER_. more spiritually intense. It will be the next chapter of growth. I cannot say when it will happen.


----------



## Impavida

Glad to hear things are going well for you @TerminalDancer And good for you on listening to your body and not forcing anything


----------



## Indiana Dan

jayde said:


> Glad to hear things are going well for you @_TerminalDancer_ And good for you on listening to your body and not forcing anything



Thanks Jayde. Hopefully you see this.. I'm tired of putting the @. It looks stupid.


----------



## Indiana Dan

Eating strict vegetarian. Tons of leafy greens, all types of veggies. Different types of rice and beans. I feel so good. It's obvious that diet is one of the most important things in life.


----------



## Indiana Dan

Aha! Vegan!! Vegan is the way to go. I'm gettin' ready to tear this house down! Can't believe I gotta finally say goodbye to pizza and eggs. Oh well on to a better life. Sayonara!


----------



## chip

TerminalDancer said:


> Aha! Vegan!! Vegan is the way to go. I'm gettin' ready to tear this house down! Can't believe I gotta finally say goodbye to pizza and eggs. Oh well on to a better life. Sayonara!



Dude, please share your secret of not wanting to pass out from fasting...I desperately need to get over the sugar hump! D: Have fun on your new lifestyle!

Did you have any emotional or mental troubles before fasting?


----------



## Indiana Dan

chip said:


> Dude, please share your secret of not wanting to pass out from fasting...I desperately need to get over the sugar hump! D: Have fun on your new lifestyle!
> 
> Did you have any emotional or mental troubles before fasting?



The more sugar you eat regularly, the more pronounced sugar low you will experience when fasting because your metabolism is regulated for high glycemic fuel. Fasting will reset and normalize your metabolism, but it will take a lot of work to change your eating habits as well from then on out.

Just know that you will not die.. no matter how fainty you feel. just take it easy and most importantly DO NOT GIVE UP NO MATTER WHAT. I learned this lesson when I quit alcohol.

You can do it!! I believe in you.



Edit: 

Yes, my life has been chock full of mental/ emotional issues and disturbances for most of my life. I have been really working at them though.


----------



## Indiana Dan

When I first started fasting I was so incredibly fatigued it was rediculous. I could hardly do anything. I mean I could do things but i was soo slow and fatigued. Be assured that the worse you feel during a fast, the more toxins your body is processing and getting rid of. It is hands down THE BEST way to change your life if you have an unhealthy diet. (which is pretty much anything that isn't plant based)


----------



## Impavida

TerminalDancer said:


> Aha! Vegan!! Vegan is the way to go. I'm gettin' ready to tear this house down! Can't believe I gotta finally say goodbye to pizza and eggs. Oh well on to a better life. Sayonara!


Vegan eh? Better you than me  I couldn't do it...likely because I don't really want to!

I'm still recovering from my decadent eating over the weekend. I can't believe how quickly the cravings came back after just a couple of days of "normal" food. Apart from the wine and some bread, I didn't have anything that could be considered unhealthy. It was just a lot more food than I needed. 

I haven't been able to drop straight back to my previous levels of calorie restriction. It has taken me three days to gradually taper off my intake to where I was before. Definitely an interesting and informative experiment. It really showed just how quickly the sugar addiction kicks in.


----------



## Indiana Dan

jayde said:


> Vegan eh? Better you than me  I couldn't do it...likely because I don't really want to!
> 
> I'm still recovering from my decadent eating over the weekend. I can't believe how quickly the cravings came back after just a couple of days of "normal" food. Apart from the wine and some bread, I didn't have anything that could be considered unhealthy. It was just a lot more food than I needed.
> 
> I haven't been able to drop straight back to my previous levels of calorie restriction. It has taken me three days to gradually taper off my intake to where I was before. Definitely an interesting and informative experiment. It really showed just how quickly the sugar addiction kicks in.


Hm. I'm sorry to hear that you have regressed. But you can get back on the saddle again and adjust your lifestyle from that lesson!  

I have an excellent routine going of a vegetarian (now vegan) diet, and skipping lunch. Just super healthy breakfast and dinners. I do a lot of studying to make sure I get all of my nutrients and proper types of fuel for the day. I am enjoying food more than ever now, and I eat a lot of it. 

I have kicked my exercise routine back in gear and my heart & adrenals are strong. My blood is clean and pure. Testosterone is high.

I feel these lifestyle changes MAY be the missing link that I have needed to finally quit caffeine for good. I know there's nothing good about caffeine and it hurts me, but I always seem to go back. I think in may have been crawling back because I was not satisfied with my energy level. I am becoming more satisfied with my energy now and I think I might be time to give caffeine abstinence another shot. Granted, I only use it on the weekends to help me record music, but I usually hit it hard and it causes me to suffer all week. I'm tired of hurting myself. I need the natural energy todo the things I love, not poisonous stimulation that takes a bite from my vitality every time I use it. I have big plans.. And that shit is getting in my way.


----------



## chip

I think this is probably my favorite thread btw, it's so full of positivity every day


----------



## Indiana Dan

chip said:


> I think this is probably my favorite thread btw, it's so full of positivity every day


----------



## Indiana Dan

Wait I just realized I can't eat cottage cheese if I'm vegan... Think im gonnahave to say screw this. Abandoning. I'll just have my own diet that doesn't have a name.

As always my lifestyle is subject to change when new info comes in.

I am going this direction much more for health reasons than for animal well-being reasons. Till I find a reasons for cottage cheese being bad for me to eat, then..

With eggs... I'm pretty sure a male is optimized to use cholesterol to rebuild semen and testosterone, so.. But at the same time I have seen studies that say vegans have higher testosterone.


----------



## Indiana Dan

I have been losing weight in my abdominal area (my biggest issue) and have been feeling great since eliminating meat. I have no desire to go back to meat. 

I also have been realizing that my body has been detoxing and burning fat since going veggie. One way to tell is the fat is obviously going away, but another reason is that I have been slightly stoned all week, lol. I'm burning the fat and I'm also processing the stored THC. There's plenty stored in there from using weed nearly every day for years. Lol fuck. 

This is great, though! This means my mind will become more and more clear as the fat gets burned. There won't be anywhere for my body to store the THC. Awesome. I love learning about diet and health so much.


----------



## Indiana Dan

You know how when something is so right and perfect that you would rather just live your life and enjoy it than talk about it? That's how the transition of vegetarianism has made me feel. Its a possibility that vegan is the perfect form of this, but I'll take it one step at a time.

One important detail I feel I should include is my previous meat habits. I hardly _ever_ ate red meat or chicken, first off.. Just a burger every once in a while. The majority of my meat consumption was actually tuna.. these super expensive cans of wild caught tuna that are in organic stores. 

But all meat has a lot of calories and nofiber and little nutrients.. Which is not efficient at all. With veggies, you can eat a ton and _still_ lose weight! As demonstrated by me! 

Not to mention the nutrients have made me feel so much better in just about every way. I think clearer, my mood has a higher baseline, my SLEEP is better. I get that super cozy feeling of good rest/ sleep now again, which I haven't had in years and years. I wake up ready to roll. My skin looks great. I don't have to exercise nearly as much and I have no guilt, but when I do exercise its better than it was before! Higher mental determination. More testosterone.


----------



## Red Panda

meat is actually packed with nutrients
"All muscle tissue is very high in protein, containing all of the essential amino acids, and in most cases is a good source of zinc, vitamin B12, selenium, phosphorus, niacin, vitamin B6, choline, riboflavin and iron."
from wikipedia

and 
5 Brain Nutrients Found Only in Meat, Fish and Eggs (NOT Plants)


----------



## Indiana Dan

But it's the delivery system for the nutrients that is equally as important as the nutes themselves. Not only do vegetables have a more comprehensive collection of nutrients to provide, they also contain a critical element for the distribution and absorption of the nutrients, _fiber._ Fiber allows the food to be digested and processed at the rate the body uses fuel.


----------



## Red Panda

TerminalDancer said:


> But it's the delivery system for the nutrients that is equally as important as the nutes themselves. Not only do vegetables have a more comprehensive collection of nutrients to provide, they also contain a critical element for the distribution and absorption of the nutrients, _fiber._ Fiber allows the food to be digested and processed at the rate the body uses fuel.


Fiber actually_ doesn't_ allow for nutrients to be absorbed in the lumen, because it binds with them, or traps them and carries them away from their points of absorption. Sometimes this is definitely beneficial, like in the case of glucose absorption and release in the bloodstream, but other times fiber could get in the way of beneficial absorption like in the case of minerals.

As for the energy you mentioned earlier, meat doesn't necessarily have more calories than other foods, it's all about their contents. Carbs provide ~4 kcal per gram , protein the same and fat ~9kcal. So it's about quantity. Like, if you consume a bowl of pasta it has more calories than a chicken breast and much less nutrients, especially if it's white pasta.

There is not one single food that provides everything we need, that's why we have to eat a variety of foods to have good health.


----------



## Indiana Dan

Energy levels are through the roof. My vegetarian dinner and breakfast powers me with steady energy all day. I dont even miss eating lunch at all, just keep rolling. It's excellent.


----------



## Indiana Dan

Red Panda said:


> meat is actually packed with nutrients
> "All muscle tissue is very high in protein, containing all of the essential amino acids, and in most cases is a good source of zinc, vitamin B12, selenium, phosphorus, niacin, vitamin B6, choline, riboflavin and iron."
> from wikipedia
> 
> and
> 5 Brain Nutrients Found Only in Meat, Fish and Eggs (NOT Plants)



Yes, I have been thinking about the b12 issue a lot. I take the sublingual supplement, but that doesnt really make sense from a natural standpoint. The only logical explanation I can see is that we were meant to at least eat eggs. Everyone's dietary needs seem to be different based on a number of factors. I might be leaning towards eating some fish or red meat occasionally 
if I encounter signs of deficiencies of some type, whatever they may be.
By the way I am 
jealous that you are enrolled in dietetic and nutrition studies. I want to be a dietician.


----------



## chip

Oh god..I hope this doesn't sound gross but...any females in here have success with horrible pms and monthly times while fasting? I feel so depressed today..I ate potatoes all day yesterday with some celery then some tomatoes today. I feel like death...then when I have a bowel movement, I feel great for about 10 minutes  I think I have candida over growth D:


----------



## Red Panda

TerminalDancer said:


> Yes, I have been thinking about the b12 issue a lot. I take the sublingual supplement, but that doesnt really make sense from a natural standpoint. The only logical explanation I can see is that we were meant to at least eat eggs. Everyone's dietary needs seem to be different based on a number of factors. I might be leaning towards eating some fish or red meat occasionally
> if I encounter signs of deficiencies of some type, whatever they may be.
> By the way I am
> jealous that you are enrolled in dietetic and nutrition studies. I want to be a dietician.


Well I hope you don't reach a point of deficiency. Definitely check on the symptoms that arise from the lacking of each nutrient. And in the case of B12, especially after a few years you should do blood tests because if you become deficient it's quite dangerous. You could also have low levels but within range, which has happened to me and it contributed to depression and anxiety.
If it's the ethical issue of animal cruelty, you could buy your meat from farms you know they treat them well. I love animals and feel very bad that they have to die because of me, but then, whenever I see a piece of meat I can't control my salivation lol. 

It's a nice field to study, though it's hard because it's relatively new and things change all the time since the body is very complex and we barely know anything about how it works. Dietitians are able to work in a clinical environment, if you care about general nutrition as a subject you could study "nutrition". But you live in US so things are probably different there.


----------



## Red Panda

chip said:


> Oh god..I hope this doesn't sound gross but...any females in here have success with horrible pms and monthly times while fasting? I feel so depressed today..I ate potatoes all day yesterday with some celery then some tomatoes today. I feel like death...then when I have a bowel movement, I feel great for about 10 minutes  I think I have candida over growth D:


vitamin B6, magnesium and B12 have helped me a lot with PMS
While I've been doing IF for almost a month now, (fasting in mornings or evenings) I definitely didn't allow myself to fast during period. I don't think it's good for your body to deny it nutrients and energy when you lose blood and have cramps. 

Also, eating only potatoes will make your glucose like a rollercoaster and that's exactly what you don't need. You practically only ate sugar yesterday.


----------



## chip

Red Panda said:


> vitamin B6, magnesium and B12 have helped me a lot with PMS
> While I've been doing IF for almost a month now, (fasting in mornings or evenings) I definitely didn't allow myself to fast during period. I don't think it's good for your body to deny it nutrients and energy when you lose blood and have cramps.
> 
> Also, eating only potatoes will make your glucose like a rollercoaster and that's exactly what you don't need. You practically only ate sugar yesterday.



Omg..i had like..8 freaking potatoes  Today I had one and almost vomited then had some lentils but it didn't make me feel better. I keep going from like..anxious to depressed, back and forth. We are so broke right now. There is half a tomato left, I feel..ugh just ..crazy! =(


----------



## Indiana Dan

chip said:


> Oh god..I hope this doesn't sound gross but...any females in here have success with horrible pms and monthly times while fasting? I feel so depressed today..I ate potatoes all day yesterday with some celery then some tomatoes today. I feel like death...then when I have a bowel movement, I feel great for about 10 minutes  I think I have candida over growth D:


Lol hey chip you're awesome for fasting! As far as the discomforts, you must understand that feeling like death is all part of the detox. The more toxic, the more bad feelings. Study up on it, there's some good sites. Good luck! Feel free to hit me up on Skype if you want. I think it's Dan.thompson704


----------



## Red Panda

chip said:


> Omg..i had like..8 freaking potatoes  Today I had one and almost vomited then had some lentils but it didn't make me feel better. I keep going from like..anxious to depressed, back and forth. We are so broke right now. There is half a tomato left, I feel..ugh just ..crazy! =(


If you want to control your blood sugar then definitely no potatoes at least so many and focus on fibrous vegetables and legumes which are good too. 
I'd tell you to eat dairy but I know you're allergic from your other posts and you say you don't want to eat meat but in your case it would be very beneficial since it has a much lower impact on blood sugar and it's full of minerals and B-vitamins that help with mood.
You need to have variety and with all these exclusions I don't know how you will succeed... 
The financial issue is of course a huge problem... :/


----------



## Indiana Dan

Chip you gotta eat leafy greens and other vegetables like carrots, beets, etc. Very important.


----------



## chip

TerminalDancer said:


> Chip you gotta eat leafy greens and other vegetables like carrots, beets, etc. Very important.



Right now it seems like anything with high glycemic index causes me to feel like I am losing my gourd


----------



## Red Panda

You should consult an RD when you have the money to, chip. 

Anyway, to be on topic.
The IF I've been doing has both good and bads. The good part is that I learn to control my portions and stop when I'm full, and control my cravings better. The bad part is that when in I fast in the morning I don't have much energy and when I'm close to the end I feel a bit dizzy and unfocused. I don't know if I can do that the days I'll have class. The evening fasts are much easier, with the exception of sleeping with an empty stomach and feeling hungry which is hard to do.

I'm also sure now that I have a level of gluten sensitivity, at least when I eat main course meals like pasta. I feel a slight pain in my intestine during digestion which is just never there when I eat other foods without gluten.


----------



## Indiana Dan

You shouldn't have blood sugar issues with veggies..


----------



## chip

TerminalDancer said:


> You shouldn't have blood sugar issues with veggies..


I do with carrots, though. Anything with high glycemic anyway


----------



## Red Panda

carrots are about 35 GI while "high" is considered 70+
and their glycemic load (GI per portion) is 2-3 which is very low, almost irrelevant
Have you ever done full blood test, vitamins minerals etc?


----------



## Indiana Dan

I did a little more studying about b12 and revealed that there are people that believe the b12 deficiency in vegans to be a myth. It is more complicated than just consuming it to raise levels. I will not let this factor sway me into eating meat again (at least not anytime soon). There's no other issues I have with a plant based diet, so it's veg-on for me!


----------



## Red Panda

TerminalDancer said:


> I did a little more studying about b12 and revealed that there are people that believe the b12 deficiency in vegans to be a myth. It is more complicated than just consuming it to raise levels. I will not let this factor sway me into eating meat again (at least not anytime soon). There's no other issues I have with a plant based diet, so it's veg-on for me!


that sounds like you were just looking for confirmation
have you read these?
Jack Norris RD» Blog Archive » Response to: Vegan Vitamin B12 Deficiency is a Myth
What Every Vegan Should Know About B12


----------



## Indiana Dan

Red Panda said:


> that sounds like you were just looking for confirmation
> have you read these?
> Jack Norris RD» Blog Archive » Response to: Vegan Vitamin B12 Deficiency is a Myth
> What Every Vegan Should Know About B12


In light of both sides of the argument, I have made the educated and partially intuitive decision to continue eating an egg every couple days. I also supplement my protein intake with delicious cottage cheese, so I'm definitely not vegan. But I'm not much on branded lifestyles anyhow.


----------



## Indiana Dan

I remember when I was an alcoholic, drinking every day with my 'buddy' who was 33 at the time. One day he gave me a shot of sublingual b complex and I felt Soooo good. I remember telling him that that was the best drug I've ever tried (lol). I had already been getting drunk every day for over a year or more at that point, and I had given myself B vit deficiency.


----------



## Indiana Dan

Haven't been doing any fasting for a couple weeks now, aside from 730am- 600 every day. I am so much more fit now.. It's awesome. Big improvement..people are noticing. 

I have been sleeping so much better on is new diet, though. I wonder which vitamins I was missing for sleep..


----------



## Arya

Funny the way people's bodies are so different. I have to force myself not to starve myself, because I'll go long periods without eating, and then have terrible melt downs. But I don't have any fat on me, so eating vegan would probably be a bad dietary choice for me. Have you looked into the blood type diet at all. According to the theory, people with type A blood do best on vegan diets. Don't know if it's true, but maybe you're type A? I'm type O, which is supposed to eat meat to stay healthy.


----------



## Indiana Dan

Arya said:


> Funny the way people's bodies are so different. I have to force myself not to starve myself, because I'll go long periods without eating, and then have terrible melt downs. But I don't have any fat on me, so eating vegan would probably be a bad dietary choice for me. Have you looked into the blood type diet at all. According to the theory, people with type A blood do best on vegan diets. Don't know if it's true, but maybe you're type A? I'm type O, which is supposed to eat meat to stay healthy.


Thanks for the post!I have struggled with overeating because I turned to food as a serious indulgence since I quit alcohol. (any addict knows how the ol' switch off process works)I saw a blood type diet book in a store one day and I took a look. It was quite interesting to me and it studied it some more at home. I tried calling the hospital I was born to tell me my blood type, but I apparently I need to go in and fill out some info release forms.. Which I think is idiotic. I can't imagine meat really being good for anyone, based on the physical similarities of our bodies as humans such as our digestion systems.. But I'm not ruling out what you have said as being a possibility.


----------



## Arya

TerminalDancer said:


> Thanks for the post!I have struggled with overeating because I turned to food as a serious indulgence since I quit alcohol. (any addict knows how the ol' switch off process works)I saw a blood type diet book in a store one day and I took a look. It was quite interesting to me and it studied it some more at home. I tried calling the hospital I was born to tell me my blood type, but I apparently I need to go in and fill out some info release forms.. Which I think is idiotic. I can't imagine meat really being good for anyone, based on the physical similarities of our bodies as humans such as our digestion systems.. But I'm not ruling out what you have said as being a possibility.


It's possible I could eat vegan if I really worked at it, but technically my BMI shows that I'm underweight, so I imagine it would be really tough. I think it's mostly a natural genetic thing for me, so I'm not going to try to force myself to gain weight, but I also don't want to lose any. I've never seen my hospital records for my blood type either, but my parents are both type O, so I have to be, since it's a recessive trait. I'm also gluten intolerant, as well as allergic to eggs, so those would definitely be out of a vegan/vegetarian diet for me.


----------



## Indiana Dan

Arya said:


> It's possible I could eat vegan if I really worked at it, but technically my BMI shows that I'm underweight, so I imagine it would be really tough. I think it's mostly a natural genetic thing for me, so I'm not going to try to force myself to gain weight, but I also don't want to lose any. I've never seen my hospital records for my blood type either, but my parents are both type O, so I have to be, since it's a recessive trait. I'm also gluten intolerant, as well as allergic to eggs, so those would definitely be out of a vegan/vegetarian diet for me.


Interesting. I don't think I've ever experienced a food allergy. Been lucky I guess! I'm sure they'll start popping up as I go..


----------



## Arya

TerminalDancer said:


> Interesting. I don't think I've ever experienced a food allergy. Been lucky I guess! I'm sure they'll start popping up as I go..


Yeah, it's certainly possible that they will. Most people don't realize that there are certain foods that are causing their health problems, but once you become more aware of how the foods make you feel, it becomes a lot clearer. I haven't been able to eat eggs since I was little. I used to throw them in the trash when my mom wasn't looking, because they made my stomach turn. Luckily she knows now that they make me ill.


----------



## Indiana Dan

Arya said:


> Yeah, it's certainly possible that they will. Most people don't realize that there are certain foods that are causing their health problems, but once you become more aware of how the foods make you feel, it becomes a lot clearer. I haven't been able to eat eggs since I was little. I used to throw them in the trash when my mom wasn't looking, because they made my stomach turn. Luckily she knows now that they make me ill.



I definitely have been enjoying my egg every couple days. If I don't eat an egg at least every few days, I feel weak and empty. The egg fills me up and satisfies my animal craving. I feel energized and my testosterone definitely goes up. At this point, i feel men were meant to eat eggs (in moderation/ when needed).


----------



## Arya

TerminalDancer said:


> I definitely have been enjoying my egg every couple days. If I don't eat an egg at least every few days, I feel weak and empty. The egg fills me up and satisfies my animal craving. I feel energized and my testosterone definitely goes up. At this point, i feel men were meant to eat eggs (in moderation/ when needed).


Yeah, eggs are a great way to get nutrients so long as you can eat them. I end up eating a lot of dairy, but I get meat cravings all the time. Not surprising I guess. Carbs can make me feel really sluggish, and vegetables don't generally satisfy my hunger. Beans are ok, but they have a lot of copper, and I'm generally zinc deficient, so that isn't so great. Meat has a lot of zinc so that probably contributes to my cravings as well.


----------



## Indiana Dan

I have found that using caffeine_ definitely_ causes meat cravings. When I was in acute withdrawal earlier this week from using caffeine over the weekend, I was really feeling the pro-meat arguments I was reading, lol. See how this stuff works!?

Im going to seriously try not to consume any more caffeine. At least for a while. I have already objectively verified that it isn't a good thing. It's much the same as alcohol, actually. I'm tired of going through the withdrawals and then just having to use it again to feel 'alive'. We'll see if I'm ready this weekend.


----------



## Indiana Dan

How humans are not physically created to eat meat


----------



## chip

Did I mention "Forks over knives"? Great documentary.


----------



## Red Panda

TerminalDancer said:


> How humans are not physically created to eat meat


there are counter-arguments to these which I once posted in another thread
we are definitely NOT herbivores because we wouldn't have survived millions of years if we ate meat, we're something in between: omnivores
the canine argument is wrong, especially if we see for example gorillas who have humongous canines but the only meat they eat is bugs. 
also, we do have hydrocloric acid, which herbivores don't, and we have different teeth, a mix of carni- and herbivores
we also can't digest most of plants, like, say cows do


_"
If people were designed to be strict vegetarians, McArdle expects we would have a specialized colon, specialized teeth and a stomach that doesn't have a generalized pH-all the better to handle roughage. Tom Billings, a vegetarian for three decades and site editor of BeyondVeg.com, believes humans are natural omnivores. Helping prove it, he says, is the fact that people have a low synthesis rate of the fatty acid DHA and of taurine, suggesting our early ancestors relied on animal foods to get these nutrients. Vitamin B-12, also, isn't reliably found in plants. That, Billings says, left "animal foods as the reliable source during evolution.""_

Were Humans Meant to Eat Meat?
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=should-humans-eat-meat-excerpt

we probably are designed to rely mostly on plant sources though


----------



## Arya

Red Panda said:


> there are counter-arguments to these which I once posted in another thread
> we are definitely NOT herbivores because we wouldn't have survived millions of years if we ate meat, we're something in between: omnivores
> the canine argument is wrong, especially if we see for example gorillas who have humongous canines but the only meat they eat is bugs.
> also, we do have hydrocloric acid, which herbivores don't, and we have different teeth, a mix of carni- and herbivores
> we also can't digest most of plants, like, say cows do
> 
> 
> _"
> If people were designed to be strict vegetarians, McArdle expects we would have a specialized colon, specialized teeth and a stomach that doesn't have a generalized pH-all the better to handle roughage. Tom Billings, a vegetarian for three decades and site editor of BeyondVeg.com, believes humans are natural omnivores. Helping prove it, he says, is the fact that people have a low synthesis rate of the fatty acid DHA and of taurine, suggesting our early ancestors relied on animal foods to get these nutrients. Vitamin B-12, also, isn't reliably found in plants. That, Billings says, left "animal foods as the reliable source during evolution.""_
> 
> Were Humans Meant to Eat Meat?


Havent read your link, but I can add on. As I learned from my biology class, most of the break down of food actually occurs in the mouth for humans. That's why it is imperative that you thoroughly chew your food. Also, I have to wonder if a lack of fiber in most people's diet isn't the true problem behind having traces if meat left in the colon. Fiber is a cleansing agent for the colon, so if you don't get enough there will be problems. The author of the article says some pretty absurd stuff too. I, for one, highly enjoy the flavor of meat without adding sauces. I also enjoy it very rare. The French, for instance, are known for eating meats barely cooked, and the fact that we have a bad system for handling meat right at the moment truly has nothing to do with whether we can eat it or not. May I also point out, that unlike animals, we also cook vegetables to make them more digestible? Is anyone going to try to tell me that we shouldn't be eating vegetables because we cook them? Cabbage for instance has goitrogens, which are very hard to digest unless it is cooked. My favorite line from the entire article though was, "Colon cancer is rampant! Lifelong vegetarians never suffer from such an illness." I truly head banged at the comment.


----------



## Red Panda

Arya said:


> Havent read your link, but I can add on. As I learned from my biology class, most of the break down of food actually occurs in the mouth for humans. That's why it is imperative that you thoroughly chew your food. Also, I have to wonder if a lack of fiber in most people's diet isn't the true problem behind having traces if meat left in the colon. Fiber is a cleansing agent for the colon, so if you don't get enough there will be problems. The author of the article says some pretty absurd stuff too. I for one highly enjoy the flavor of meat without adding sauces. I also enjoy it very rare. The French, for instance, are known for eating meats barely cooked, and the fact that we have a bad system for handling meat right at the moment truly has nothing to do with whether we can eat it or not.


this is an interesting article in favor of humans being predominately plant eaters
http://michaelbluejay.com/veg/natural.html

Well, from what I know, the digestion of carbs in the mount has very little importance because once the food reaches the stomach, the enzyme stops working due to the low pH (which is lower than it says in the above article, at 1.5-3). 
I've also read an interesting article, I think in national geographic, of how we evolved because we discovered cooking, which meant we didn't have to chew our food as much as other primates did so it gave us more time and energy to expand our brains. 
I think the issue of our dietary preferences and what's "natural" for us will always be a hot topic and there is no definitive answer. 
I think we've definitely strayed from what we ate thousands and millions of years ago, even the plants we eat are not of the same quality, so perhaps it's not exactly right to compare our nutrition now and then in the basis of food types (meat/vegs) but rather on the whole of production. It says in the article how vegetables back then were rich in vitamin B12 due to being dirty, and maybe even humans ate their poop like other animals did, to take the vitamin. I don't think there's any single, normal person who'd want to eat their poop now.


----------



## Red Panda

And this is an article in favor of meat-eating

Eating Meat Made Us Human, Suggests New Skull Fossil | Hominid Fossils | LiveScience

and one more

Meat Eating and Human Evolution | Mark's Daily Apple


----------



## Indiana Dan

Yes I am not all-for that article either. I have learned that we need meat occasionally. But the nutrients that meat contains don't need to be refilled nearly as often as plant ones do. Had some salmon last night, wont have any more for at least a week.


----------



## chip

Arya said:


> Havent read your link, but I can add on. As I learned from my biology class, most of the break down of food actually occurs in the mouth for humans. That's why it is imperative that you thoroughly chew your food. Also, I have to wonder if a lack of fiber in most people's diet isn't the true problem behind having traces if meat left in the colon. Fiber is a cleansing agent for the colon, so if you don't get enough there will be problems. The author of the article says some pretty absurd stuff too. I, for one, highly enjoy the flavor of meat without adding sauces. I also enjoy it very rare. The French, for instance, are known for eating meats barely cooked, and the fact that we have a bad system for handling meat right at the moment truly has nothing to do with whether we can eat it or not. May I also point out, that unlike animals, we also cook vegetables to make them more digestible? Is anyone going to try to tell me that we shouldn't be eating vegetables because we cook them? Cabbage for instance has goitrogens, which are very hard to digest unless it is cooked. My favorite line from the entire article though was, "Colon cancer is rampant! Lifelong vegetarians never suffer from such an illness." I truly head banged at the comment.



Meat diets have been linked to cancer time and time again. The not getting enough fiber in our diets bit is a myth, at least when it comes to dietary fiber. We need whole foods. Go watch forks over knives.


----------



## chip

TerminalDancer said:


> Yes I am not all-for that article either. I have learned that we need meat occasionally. But the nutrients that meat contains don't need to be refilled nearly as often as plant ones do. Had some salmon last night, wont have any more for at least a week.



I have an update for you about my mini fast. Yesterday I drank a ton of water, did not eat at all. Went on a bike ride to get food, came back and felt energized, happier, more aroused toward my husband haha sorry, I have had sexual dysfuntion for a while to where basically I have no libido at all. : ( I felt amazing! Then...I ate cabbage with beans, rice noodles and veggies and felt a little tired...had some mayonaise then had 3 more dishes I was so hungry, then I felt shitty and suicidal  had beans today, felt the same and went into a mini panic attack D: I have food allergies so I think you also might, like when you fast you feel great because youre not eating bad stuff that caused you to be sick to begin with.


----------



## Indiana Dan

chip said:


> I have an update for you about my mini fast. Yesterday I drank a ton of water, did not eat at all. Went on a bike ride to get food, came back and felt energized, happier, more aroused toward my husband haha sorry, I have had sexual dysfuntion for a while to where basically I have no libido at all. : ( I felt amazing! Then...I ate cabbage with beans, rice noodles and veggies and felt a little tired...had some mayonaise then had 3 more dishes I was so hungry, then I felt shitty and suicidal  had beans today, felt the same and went into a mini panic attack D: I have food allergies so I think you also might, like when you fast you feel great because youre not eating bad stuff that caused you to be sick to begin with.


That's great, Chip. I'm glad you have the desire to find the way to a better life. I think you will find that the true amazing health-restoration of fasting really begins to kick in with at least 24 hours of no food. 48 hours or longer would be even better if you are in bad shape. It is very possible for many of your food allergies to disappear or greatly reduce in severity if you fast for a longer period.

Just keep going! Never stop paying attention and learning.


----------



## Indiana Dan

A worthy update for me:

My overall well-being has significantly improved since making these dietary / nutrition upgrades. I think it is time for me to go a really long time without caffeine. I really don't like mood altering drugs in my life.. they disrupt me and cause me downtime and suffering. Not to mention I bring everyone down around me, inevitably. 

I feel like I can handle this challenge now because I am eating proper for fuel. Bring it on.. I'm ready now.


----------



## chip

TerminalDancer said:


> A worthy update for me:
> 
> My overall well-being has significantly improved since making these dietary / nutrition upgrades. I think it is time for me to go a really long time without caffeine. I really don't like mood altering drugs in my life.. they disrupt me and cause me downtime and suffering. Not to mention I bring everyone down around me, inevitably.
> 
> I feel like I can handle this challenge now because I am eating proper for fuel. Bring it on.. I'm ready now.


What is your diet like now?


----------



## Indiana Dan

chip said:


> What is your diet like now?


A typical day:

Bowl of cereal which consists of:
Flax cereal (blue box 'religious' brand with 0g sugar)
1 organic banana (sliced)
Peanut butter or handful of nuts
maybe some blueberries or other fruit
Red soy milk

Breakfast consisting of:
beans
1 egg (usually)
mushrooms
onion
garlic 
maybe a little cheese
greens & other random vegetables mixed in as well

Dinner:

A LOT of greens
~3 Carrots, sliced
Mushrooms
Beet
Sometimes tofu sausage for extra texture/flavor

^seasoned with random seasonings and asian style sauces


This is an example day. Other things are eaten, such as a fruit here or there, a few more nuts, ice cream sandwich lol.


----------



## Indiana Dan

And I also eat meat occasionally. Had some fish and a burger this weekend. I felt better after.. I'm not sure if caffeine had something to do with that though, which is one reason why I'm quitting it for a while. I have officially made the decision to still eat seafood and meat, but only when necessary. The reason to eat that stuff is for sexual regeneration.


----------



## Arya

TerminalDancer said:


> A typical day:
> 
> Bowl of cereal which consists of:
> Flax cereal (blue box 'religious' brand with 0g sugar)
> 1 organic banana (sliced)
> Peanut butter or handful of nuts
> maybe some blueberries or other fruit
> Red soy milk
> 
> Breakfast consisting of:
> beans
> 1 egg (usually)
> mushrooms
> onion
> garlic
> maybe a little cheese
> greens & other random vegetables mixed in as well
> 
> Dinner:
> 
> A LOT of greens
> ~3 Carrots, sliced
> Mushrooms
> Beet
> Sometimes tofu sausage for extra texture/flavor
> 
> ^seasoned with random seasonings and asian style sauces
> 
> 
> This is an example day. Other things are eaten, such as a fruit here or there, a few more nuts, ice cream sandwich lol.


You should probably only eat soy in small quantities since it has a lot of estrogen. Fermented is best. It's also GMO a lot of the time, which is also a bit iffy as far as health goes.


----------



## Arya

chip said:


> Meat diets have been linked to cancer time and time again. The not getting enough fiber in our diets bit is a myth, at least when it comes to dietary fiber. We need whole foods. Go watch forks over knives.


I'll watch when I get a chance.


----------



## Indiana Dan

Arya said:


> You should probably only eat soy in small quantities since it has a lot of estrogen. Fermented is best. It's also GMO a lot of the time, which is also a bit iffy as far as health goes.


Yeah.. I have heard a lot about soy and estrogen. Are there any other options? Almond milk right? That stuff tastes like water..

p.s. my brand is non-gmo


----------



## Arya

TerminalDancer said:


> Yeah.. I have heard a lot about soy and estrogen. Are there any other options? Almond milk right? That stuff tastes like water..
> 
> p.s. my brand is non-gmo


That's good that it's non-GMO. I've tried a lot of different non-dairy milks because some people in my family are lactose intolerant. There's almond, rice, and coconut. Can't say I highly appreciate any of them. But almond and coconut milk are both better than rice milk.


----------



## Indiana Dan

Arya said:


> That's good that it's non-GMO. I've tried a lot of different non-dairy milks because some people in my family are lactose intolerant. There's almond, rice, and coconut. Can't say I highly appreciate any of them. But almond and coconut milk are both better than rice milk.


It definitely makes sense to watch the soy milk.. Cuz soy milk isn't even a whole food. It has sugar added to it. It's really just a product to take your mind off regular milk, but at the same time giving you other problems. I will limit it more.. For starters.


----------



## chip

I really like hemp milk but sugar free and non gmo. I wanted to update terminaldancer: I've been fasting every day but eat once or twice a day and I notice I wake up feeling a little depressed, but when I eat, I feel hella depressed, and I have these...huge massive gas bubbles in my intestines. I can actually feel them move around. I honestly think I am depressed/anxious because of the state of my stomach. I believe I am still getting rid of the big amount of gluten I ate only two weeks ago, and I feel like I need probiotics but probiotics make me feel highly depressed for some reason. Have you ever felt so depressed that you felt like the world was difficult to understand? Kind of like being in a dream like state?


----------



## Indiana Dan

The hemp milk was an excellent suggestion! I got some in flax cereal right now and it's good  let the fruit provide the sugar.


----------



## Indiana Dan

It, sounds like you are in a poor state of health, chip. If you have fat to burn, continue the fasting as much as possible until it is gone and you have a proper heathy diet in place. One with fruits, vegetables, nuts, whole grains, etc. It will heal you INCREDIBLY, but you have to do the research to get excited because you have to really believe in it.


----------



## Indiana Dan

Feel way better. No lie.

Nutrition lesson complete. Move on to next lesson.

I'm starting to feel a warmth and depth of life that I haven't felt since I was a young kid. It's quite amazing that nutrition was the key.

Keep in mind though, people that I have been through an incredible amount of stress and bodily harm. Chronic pancreatitis for a year while drinking the entire time= ridiculous. I'm glad I survived. My pancreas might never heal completely. Nutrition helped me awesomely. It will do the same for you.


----------



## Indiana Dan

I hIghly recommend the info on this page. Educate-Yourself.org-Nutrition , The Key to Energy


----------



## chip

Oh man, that link is packed full of awesome, TD, thanks for posting it


----------



## Indiana Dan

chip said:


> Oh man, that link is packed full of awesome, TD, thanks for posting it


Glad you're reading it :wink:


----------



## chip

TerminalDancer said:


> Glad you're reading it :wink:



I have been doing some research into the brain gut connection and someone on this heal yourself facebook said

Better brain function when everything else works better because your pain receptors are not needing to 'fire' due to abdominal stress. People get cranky when their digestive systems are not functioning.


----------



## Indiana Dan

chip said:


> I have been doing some research into the brain gut connection and someone on this heal yourself facebook said
> 
> Better brain function when everything else works better because your pain receptors are not needing to 'fire' due to abdominal stress. People get cranky when their digestive systems are not functioning.


Te human body and life in general is more complicated than we could ever imagine.. Lol. Let's just say I am very, very grateful for my intuition 



Also.. I am very pleased with the fact that I have lost pretty much all of my visceral fat from this prodominately vegetarian diet. MAJOR plus.


----------

