# can I get a fix on my type ? INTJ or ESTP ? :D



## Mr inappropriate (Dec 17, 2013)

*some S type but which one ?*

Hi to all ! :tongue:

Well, this is my 3rd and (hopefully) the last 'type me' thread. I got ISFP ISTJ ISTP ESFP ENTP/ESTP as possible types before. Mostly the ESFP and ISFP, however I dont think I'm that strong of a Fi user and there turned up a couple of things I cant see fitting. Not to mention when I read INTP/J desriptions sometimes, I become sure about being one of them.
That confusion probably stemmed from my ridiculous answers to previous questionnaires, too. I think this is most easy Q for me to answer to so I guess it will be more likely to give you more ideas. 

Thanks in advance !


0. Is there anything that may affect the way you answer the questions? For example, a stressful time, mental illness, medications, special life circumstances? Other useful information includes sex, age, and current state of mind.

*Male, 23 years old. I’m still at collage however I only take 1 course so its really a lot of free time and I’m soo bored. That emptiness sucked all my motivation away from me. Also, I have had clashes with some of my friends which I eventually just stopped communicating. I don't have much of a social interaction for now. I also have a self-diagnosis of PPD but its really not apparent sometimes I think I’m making all this up to fill my empty time. But some traits are definitely there I just know if they are pathological or not. *

1. Click on this link: Flickr: Explore! Look at the random photo for about 30 seconds. Copy and paste it here, and write about your impression of it.

Strasburgo | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

*I just love the colors and their reflection on the river. So lively picture and I really like the houses/scenery overall, I’d guess I should visit Strasbourg at sometime.*

A robin, "explored" Thank you all very much !!! | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

*Omg, look at those tiny legs so cute. I used to have a pet bird so I wanted to share this photo also.*

2. You are with a group of people in a car, heading to a different town to see your favorite band/artist/musician. Suddenly, the car breaks down for an unknown reason in the middle of nowhere. What are your initial thoughts? What are your outward reactions?

*‘WTF ? I should have expected it since I’m unlucky always. oh well, notice to myself not to buy that manufacturers cars in future.’

My outward reaction firstly would be whining about how I bring bad luck to everywhere I go and anything I do, probably to get sympathy. Then I’d insist on calling the road service because its obvious we cant fix the car unless of course it has run out of petrol. Then I may have trouble not beating the driver for his stupidity. But that's not really possible because I always look at cars dashes, I’d have warned them if it was low on fuel.*

3. You somehow make it to the concert. The driver wants to go to the afterparty that was announced (and assure you they won't drink so they can drive back later). How do you feel about this party? What do you do?

*I’m not much of a concert guy, so I was probably there for the party in first place (if its sth crazy like foam parties). I’d definetely go, even if I wont be the life of party or anything.* 

4. On the drive back, your friends are talking. A friend makes a claim that clashes with your current beliefs. What is your inward reaction? What do you outwardly say?

*It would depend on my mood with outward reaction. I may argue just for the sake of it or just ignore. Inwards, s/he would be less liked/respected after saying those. *

5. What would you do if you actually saw/experienced something that clashes with your previous beliefs, experiences, and habits?

*I’m having trouble to answer this one. I think I’ll either adjust accordingly or ignore that experience by finding a reason to do so. However I usually think I’m the right one, unless sth(facts) clearly states otherwise. I mean I’m able to adjust too if necessary.*

6. What are some of your most important values? How did you come about determining them? How can they change?

*Health, security, not submitting, wealth, being logical, not being ordinary; in that order. I took a value test that's how I determined them. I don't see why would they need a change right now. I may sacrifice some of them for the more important values though if counts a change.* 

7. a) What about your personality most distinguishes you from everyone else? b) If you could change one thing about you personality, what would it be? Why?

*a)I don't know how to put this but I've always tried to ‘not to be like everyone else’. But, I cant answer this right now, I don't think I’m much of a different person than others, we are just human, lol. I’m weird in my manners and thoughts though I sometimes shock people with what I say or do.

b)I’d like to have more self-esteem. I don't believe I have any for now. I thought I was shy but it is the lack of self-esteem, really. In fact I’m not shy at all if I believe I know what I’m doing and wont get killed for it.
*
8. How do you treat hunches or gut feelings? In what situations are they most often triggered?

*I don't know I very rarely get hunches or gut feelings. Maybe they are triggered when gambling or sth. I’d probably go along with them if there aren't anything around contradicts them clearly.*


9. a) What activities energize you most? b) What activities drain you most? Why?

*a) Doing things and seeing the results. I mean I usually get more energized when I start to sth. that I don't hate. Positive environments, interacting with other people(if they arent assholes) generally cheer me up. I also like driving, just a bit in the crazy way.

b) Studying, writing reports. Being overshadowed by louder people than me in social meeting and stuff. I hate being ignored. Also, I get frustrated if I cant get what I deserve so if I have negative suspicions about the outcome, that activity (may be anything) drains my energy.*

10. What do you repress about your outward behavior or internal thought process when around others? Why?
*
I recall have a low of opinion of some people at moments, so I repress those. If I say whats crossing my mind at times, I’d be further alienated from the crowd and I wouldn't like that. I think some people deserve really bad things, so I feel a need to punish them, I also keep those hidden.

I try not to be too obstructive outwards, I don't like forcing/bothering people. I also refrain from showing affection but sometimes I’m not even sure if I have them, lol. However, I can be quite theatrical sometimes when I’m faking to be emotional and I find it fun.*


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## Eating_salad_bones (Aug 21, 2013)

Istp. You sound a lot like one of my skate buddies.


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## Mr inappropriate (Dec 17, 2013)

ha, I hope he's cool. 

anyone else having a friend sounding like me ? more guesses are welcome !


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

So,let's see:
E/I-I'm not quite sure.You don't seem to be very sociable and people loving,but you seem to be a bit of an attention whore,no offence.After all,it takes one to know one:wink:I'd probably go with E.

S/N-I'd say S mostly based on the fact that I don't have to read each of your answers 5 times to understand them like it's the case with most N's:tongue:
Besides,you seem to be a pretty here and now kind of guy,plus you are quite sure of your S,is that right?

T/F-You don't seem to be very emotional or illogical or very empathetic,so T,I guess.

P/J-I'd say P simply because I can't see you fitting ESTJ description at all lol

So,ESTP then.
Btw,you kind of remind me of me in many ways and I'm an ESFP,so I guess ESTP is correct.


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## Mr inappropriate (Dec 17, 2013)

> Btw,you kind of remind me of me in many ways and I'm an ESFP,so I guess ESTP is correct.


if you say so. 

esfp's are the best anyway :tongue:


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## Taika (Jan 15, 2014)

I think you are pretty consistent with expressing use of extroverted sensing, that is obvious. However, instead of Ti I noticed more Fi and to me the most likely type for you seems to be ESFP.

By the way, your username fits really well for a heavy Se-user.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

ESFP don't seem wrong.
To lazy to really get deeply into it.
You seem a bit on the unhealty side so I recommend looking at the Enneagram.
Most people benefit more from that process.
Knowing your MBTI type has limited utility, unless you are willing to learn it real deep.


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## Mr inappropriate (Dec 17, 2013)

Taika said:


> I think you are pretty consistent with expressing use of extroverted sensing, that is obvious. However, instead of Ti I noticed more Fi and to me the most likely type for you seems to be ESFP.
> 
> By the way, your username fits really well for a heavy Se-user.


thank you for contributing and I really liked Crash, haha :tongue: 
but can you point out where do you see Fi ?



hornet said:


> ESFP don't seem wrong.
> To lazy to really get deeply into it.
> You seem a bit on the unhealty side so I recommend looking at the Enneagram.
> Most people benefit more from that process.
> Knowing your MBTI type has limited utility, unless you are willing to learn it real deep.


I have a lot of free time nowadays so I'm willing to look further into. My problem is I'm not able to know what function I'm using unless somebody comes and says 'Se doms like colorful pictures', I check with myself if I behave like that then I know I'm using what. 
Thats why the initial impression from you people means a lot to me because I cant look myself from the outside, I usually dont have any idea how I come off as to others.

anyway my enneagram test results say I'm type either 5 or 6. I'm not sure if they mean anything serious because I can even get 8 sometimes on other tests sometimes. Mbti seems more solid to me, because I'm usually unaware of my motives.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

crashbandicoot said:


> I have a lot of free time nowadays so I'm willing to look further into. My problem is I'm not able to know what function I'm using unless somebody comes and says 'Se doms like colorful pictures', I check with myself if I behave like that then I know I'm using what.
> Thats why the initial impression from you people means a lot to me because I cant look myself from the outside, I usually dont have any idea how I come off as to others.


You can say that Si doms love colours too.
A lot of people are throwing claims of this and that around, without really knowing what they talk about.
Se is drawn to strong sensory stimulation, and don't differentiate too much between this or that.
Si likes to repeat what it has experienced before over something new.
Even if the new thing would be objectively more potent. Hence it is subjective sensation.

Se doms are very focused on what is going on in the now.
And can easily be distracted from more abstract endeavours because of this.
As opposed to Ni doms who will keep going after abstract info and ignores the moment more.



> anyway my enneagram test results say I'm type either 5 or 6. I'm not sure if they mean anything serious because I can even get 8 sometimes on other tests sometimes. Mbti seems more solid to me, because I'm usually unaware of my motives. another one


Type 2 and 7 are the two types with the biggest difficulty introspecting.
The big difference between them is that 7 avoids introspection because of fear of boredom,
and the 2 avoids it cause they don't want to lose a feeling of pride that they feel that the outer focus gives them.

I'm not a big fan of tests.
*What you got to do is read and really think about what you read means.*
Then think about how it applies to you.
The nice thing about the Enneagram is that the process of thinking about it makes you a better person.
Sort of true with the MBTI too, but the Enneagram is more potent.
Depends on why you want to learn of course.


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## Mr inappropriate (Dec 17, 2013)

hornet said:


> You can say that Si doms love colours too.
> A lot of people are throwing claims of this and that around, without really knowing what they talk about.
> Se is drawn to strong sensory stimulation, and don't differentiate too much between this or that.
> Si likes to repeat what it has experienced before over something new.
> Even if the new thing would be objectively more potent. Hence it is subjective sensation.


I made that up to give an example of how I can learn cognitive functions. No one said anything like that.
Cognitive function descriptions do not cut it for me. I need to see someone using their Fe with my eyes to really understand what it is. I need sth concrete/tangible.
I think I'll have to move on to enneagram a bit later. Thanks for your help!
I'm definitively not type 2 though.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

crashbandicoot said:


> I made that up to give an example of how I can learn cognitive functions. No one said anything like that.
> Cognitive function descriptions do not cut it for me. I need to see someone using their Fe with my eyes to really understand what it is. I need sth concrete/tangible.
> I think I'll have to move on to enneagram a bit later. Thanks for your help!
> I'm definitively not type 2 though.


Yeah I get it.
Here is an youtube videos of an ESTP. Se, Ti, Fe, Ni


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## Mr inappropriate (Dec 17, 2013)

hmm, I had an impression of her being too stiff and fake with her facial expressions. not sure what that means.

btw hornet, why esxp over isxp ?


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

crashbandicoot said:


> hmm, I had an impression of her being too stiff and fake with her facial expressions. not sure what that means.
> 
> btw hornet, why esxp over isxp ?


Cause she is an obvious Se dominant. She has zero tolerance for the concept of being classy.
She also don't care about following any pattern too deep.


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## Mr inappropriate (Dec 17, 2013)

ah, no I mean why do you think that I'm Se dom ? you loosely suggested esfp right ?


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

crashbandicoot said:


> ah, no I mean why do you think that I'm Se dom ? you loosely suggested esfp right ?


No real reason, cause it was easy to say what everyone else was saying.
If I disagreed with something that didn't seem to be too of the mark I would have just been drawn into
a discusion I had no energy for.

You could just as well be something else.
I've stopped believeing in typing people correctly, 
from reading some random type me questionaire anyway.
I can give you good examples of whatever type you want to know more about, 
you can watch it on youtube and we can discuss it.
Most type me threads sort of devolve into a witch type has ownership of X traits.


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## Mr inappropriate (Dec 17, 2013)

ok, but I also believe these type of questionnaires give an overall vibe to others that may come true more often than not. I've been also watching videos for 2 hours and I dont feel close to any of them particularly. I cant get further than *S*P . I need some direction here. 

thats why I want people's opinions really. more guesses are welcome !


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

crashbandicoot said:


> ok, but I also believe these type of questionnaires give an overall vibe to others that may come true more often than not. I've been also watching videos for 2 hours and I dont feel close to any of them particularly. I cant get further than *S*P . I need some direction here.
> 
> thats why I want people's opinions really. more guesses are welcome !


Well what you are lacking is wheter you are on the Te/Fi or Fe/Ti axis.

I found it interesting how you viewed the ESTP as fake.
Can you expound on what you think of when you hear the word fake?

What is your relationship to facebook and other social media?
How are your relationship to fashion?
What do you pay attention to in a group setting?

If you where in another country and you where told about som cultural norm.
How would you reason about that?

How do you approach your goals?
What kind of games do you like?
How do you prefer to cooperate with others?


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## Mr inappropriate (Dec 17, 2013)

hornet said:


> Well what you are lacking is wheter you are on the Te/Fi or Fe/Ti axis.
> 
> I found it interesting how you viewed the ESTP as fake.
> Can you expound on what you think of when you hear the word fake?
> ...


I believe Tx/Fx decision is harder to make because it needs more introspection since they are Judging functions and I'm a ***P type.

Well, I usually dont think anything when I hear the word fake. I really need to know in which purpose it is used. It may mean chinese copy of something. or it may mean that one person's behavior is lacking genuineness and she is lying or acting to be sth she is not. I really felt like she was trying too hard to be an asshole on videos, I doubt she can act like that irl.

I dont use social media much often, especially not twitter because I rarely(or never ) come up with sth impressive to tweet it. I had used facebook for stalking people before, I rarely share anything and if I do its mostly music videos or a new profile picture. But I've been on fb for a long time like 7-8 years, so its normal that I find it boring now.

I dont care about fashion that much, I wear what looks good on me and feels comfortable.

I pay attention to power dimension in group settings if there is anyone trying to be dominant I either confront/challenge them or if other people around are his friends, I try to evade being in that situation again. Someone talking too much bothers me because I also need to talk at some point. I get angry and lose my interest if I dont.

It really depends on country a lot. I mean if I was in Iran or anything I'd have to go by it or they'd arrest me. Other than that, I 'd try not to contradict it if that norm is a mundane thing. If its anything important and I find it ridiculous, I'd ignore and break it.

I dont have goals really. I mean I'd love to be rich but it takes too much hard work so I'm hoping for the big lottery. I really dont have any approachable goals.

I like FPS and adventure games. Shooters like Doom 3 are the best when it involves a bit horror, thrill. I like geting caught up in games, constant action. I hate RPG and MMORPG's. I think I may have fell asleep once playing a RPG :ninja:

Cooperation with others? It should be mutual benefiting, they have to be capable individuals otherwise I hate covering up for people. They need to hold their end of the bargain so should I. I may become stubborn and want to control the decisions, however I mostly let other people those because I'm really lazy and dont want to deal with extra work.

wow, that was a bit draining. I feel like that when I have to think about what I'm like in general/answering questions about me. I'm not complaining or anything dont get me wrong roud: 
but I'm saying this because I think it may be related to type.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

crashbandicoot said:


> I believe Tx/Fx decision is harder to make because it needs more introspection since they are Judging functions and I'm a ***P type.
> 
> Well, I usually dont think anything when I hear the word fake. I really need to know in which purpose it is used. It may mean chinese copy of something. or it may mean that one person's behavior is lacking genuineness and she is lying or acting to be sth she is not. I really felt like she was trying too hard to be an asshole on videos, I doubt she can act like that irl.
> 
> ...


From this I'm fairly positive that you are on the Te/Fi axis.
You have only reinforced your image as an Se dom.
I can now say fairly certain that you are an ESFP.

It has to do with expecting others to keep their end of the bargin,
while not feeling obliged to value others arbitrary standards just because you have entered their space.
Unless there is threat of force or some sort of confrontation that makes you back down.
Te makes you look out for what bargains you have entered into, and Fi sets personal value standards.
I can't say that you seem very worried about stepping on others value standards.

Type 7 seems like a good Enneagram starting point for you, no promises though.
I'm not as good with that system as I'm with Jungian types.


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## Mr inappropriate (Dec 17, 2013)

I guess, I'm confused because everytime I feel like I'm using a function that isnt in ESFP, I feel like I'm mistyped. 
I also rely on Si as well, more than Ni which is in my type. Like, I want to say sth. to my father who is in another room, when I go there suddenly, I forgot what I was gonna say. I'll go to my room and remember again. 
On a second though, this kinda sounds Se too, I'm not sure.:frustrating:

I'll look into enneagram types, too.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

crashbandicoot said:


> I guess, I'm confused because everytime I feel like I'm using a function that isnt in ESFP, I feel like I'm mistyped.
> I also rely on Si as well, more than Ni which is in my type. Like, I want to say sth. to my father who is in another room, when I go there suddenly, I forgot what I was gonna say. I'll go to my room and remember again.
> On a second though, this kinda sounds Se too, I'm not sure.:frustrating:
> 
> I'll look into enneagram types, too.


Si is not memory.
You seem to have a fairly warped impression of that cognitive function.

Si is like you have a fav layout of the breakfast table and you get freaked out
if the milk isn't in it's proper position. It is more that kind of thing.
I'm sure you have met people who care a about things staying as it always where.
But if you change it long enough they suddenly adopt the new thing as the new state og things.


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## Mr inappropriate (Dec 17, 2013)

hornet said:


> Si is not memory.
> *You seem to have a fairly warped impression of that cognitive function.*
> 
> Si is like you have a fav layout of the breakfast table and you get freaked out
> ...


looks like that way :blushed:
I need those kind of descriptions to understand, give that example and I get it. thats a great example of a cognitive function for me.
what may cause the thing I mention though ? it seems different than memory. 
anyway I rarely go through sth like that, like once a month at best.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

crashbandicoot said:


> looks like that way :blushed:
> I need those kind of descriptions to understand, give that example and I get it. thats a great example of a cognitive function for me.
> what may cause the thing I mention though ? it seems different than memory.
> anyway I rarely go through sth like that, like once a month at best.


It is called forgetting and remembering.
I don't think it is covered by this system.
Not everything can be explained with cognitive functions.


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## Mr inappropriate (Dec 17, 2013)

maybe I couldnt describe it correctly. I *have to* be in the place that I come up with the idea first to remember it. It has got something to with my surroundings. Like, even I stay at my fathers room a million years I couldnt remember what I was gonna say.
or lets say that stuff occurred to me while I was in kitchen, I need to be in kitchen to remember it ? I need to be that exact location to remember it. 

it feels really different than the usual forgetting and remembering to me but I dont know maybe I'm over analyzing. however I become very curious about this and I think I'm gonna create a thread about this in cognitive functions forum.

so, overall I look like ESFP ! thanks for taking time and helping hornet, really I appreciate it ! roud:


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

crashbandicoot said:


> maybe I couldnt describe it correctly. I *have to* be in the place that I come up with the idea first to remember it. It has got something to with my surroundings. Like, even I stay at my fathers room a million years I couldnt remember what I was gonna say.
> or lets say that stuff occurred to me while I was in kitchen, I need to be in kitchen to remember it ? I need to be that exact location to remember it.
> 
> it feels really different than the usual forgetting and remembering to me but I dont know maybe I'm over analyzing. however I become very curious about this and I think I'm gonna create a thread about this in cognitive functions forum.
> ...


Well I can understand how you might have linked an idea to that specific space.
I kinda do it too, but I don't really forget it all that much, but I guess I did as a child when I think about it.
Might have to do with inferior Ni in your case hard to say, since I have tertiary Ni.
You could hear with ESFPs or ESTPs if they do it too.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

I am seeing a lot of Fe in the OP though there's also sensory stuff in there. xSTP I would assume.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

ephemereality said:


> I am seeing a lot of Fe in the OP though there's also sensory stuff in there. xSTP I would assume.


That is an interesting angle.
I got so caught up with his apparent streak for punishing others that I kinda thought Gamma at once.
I can see how it could just as well be ISTP, cause he said he didn't trust the Te kind of justice in a PM.
That could indicate Ti dom. 
The possibility struck me a second, but I dismissed it.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

hornet said:


> That is an interesting angle.
> I got so caught up with his apparent streak for punishing others that I kinda thought Gamma at once.
> I can see how it could just as well be ISTP, cause he said he didn't trust the Te kind of justice in a PM.
> That could indicate Ti dom.
> The possibility struck me a second, but I dismissed it.


The reason why I don't think gamma is because the OP is well, too "cheerful" or outwardly expressive. I was thinking maybe it's an enneagram different f or example, but I actually don't think so. Every xSFP I've met thus far is not cheery in the same way the OP is cheery, and a lot of the stuff mentioned here could equally be attributed to weak Fe I think. Ti types are not necessarily very aware of their impact they have on others either. Notably though, these quotes strike as anti-Fi:



> Also, I have had clashes with some of my friends which I eventually just stopped communicating. I don't have much of a social interaction for now. More focus on the external result (stopped communicating) than the internal ethical reason why e.g. I don't like speaking to them anymore.





> My outward reaction firstly would be whining about how I bring bad luck to everywhere I go and anything I do, *probably to get sympathy*. I think this quote, especially the bold part ,speaks for itself.





> I took a value test that's how I determined them. The OP can't determine what they internally value on their own...?





> I’m weird in my manners and thoughts though I sometimes shock people with what I say or do. More focus on how people perceive the OP than how the OP perceives people.





> Positive environments, interacting with other people(if they arent assholes) generally cheer me up. This sounds very merry in a Reinin dichotomy sense.





> Being overshadowed by louder people than me in social meeting and stuff. I hate being ignored. Seems to suggest focus on emotional atmosphere, paying attention to people's social place to ensure everyone get their "collective" share.


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## Mr inappropriate (Dec 17, 2013)

> Also, I have had clashes with some of my friends which I eventually just stopped communicating. I don't have much of a social interaction for now. More focus on the external result (stopped communicating) than the internal ethical reason why e.g. I don't like speaking to them anymore.


I meant sth physical there with clash. No ethical reason, except that I felt 'disrespected', 'belittled', 'taken for granted'. We were 4 people in the car while driving to somewhere outta town. They annoyed me a lot with their teasing they were constantly making fun of me 1 vs 3. It reached to a point I stopped the car at motorway and threw them out of my car using physical force. They were my 'best friend's from that social circle so treating them like that caused me to cut all the ties with their group.



> I took a value test that's how I determined them. The OP can't determine what they internally value on their own...?


yeah I get confused trying to think about stuff like this. I think its meaningless to have values other than one's own comfort, security, success (power). 
well, I actually can think of a lot of values I had but when I contradicted them I was not much bothered so I guess they are superficially selected as values by me. Like honesty, integrity, respect and etc.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

@ephemereality
I see it clearly when you point it out.
I can see how that would be Beta.



crashbandicoot said:


> I meant sth physical there with clash. No ethical reason, except that I felt 'disrespected', 'belittled', 'taken for granted'. We were 4 people in the car while driving to somewhere outta town. They annoyed me a lot with their teasing they were constantly making fun of me 1 vs 3. It reached to a point I stopped the car at motorway and threw them out of my car using physical force. They were my 'best friend's from that social circle so treating them like that caused me to cut all the ties with their group.
> 
> 
> yeah I get confused trying to think about stuff like this. I think its meaningless to have values other than one's own comfort, security, success (power).
> well, I actually can think of a lot of values I had but when I contradicted them I was not much bothered so I guess they are superficially selected as values by me. Like honesty, integrity, respect and etc.


When you put it like that you all of a sudden sound very Beta too. 
Learned a lot from this.


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## Mr inappropriate (Dec 17, 2013)

I really think I'm like anti-Beta 

I also wonder, why anti-Fi(or Fe) over unhealthy/deviant Fi ? I've always craved to be different than the rest(I found people not at my level back than) maybe I adopted weird values in trying to do so. 
I'm not much like that now, I'm trying to change that, otherwise I feel alone and unhappy. and *bored a lot* !
@ephemereality


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

crashbandicoot said:


> I really think I'm like anti-Beta
> 
> I also wonder, why anti-Fi(or Fe) over unhealthy/deviant Fi ? I've always craved to be different than the rest(I found people not at my level back than) maybe I adopted weird values in trying to do so.
> I'm not much like that now, I'm trying to change that, otherwise I feel alone and unhappy. and *bored a lot* !
> @ephemereality


Fi and Fe are ways to ethically reason about the world. It has nothing to do with being deviant.


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## Mr inappropriate (Dec 17, 2013)

I dont feel like I'm as engaged to life as the Se doms, so combined with weak Fe makes me ISTP then ?


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

crashbandicoot said:


> I dont feel like I'm as engaged to life as the Se doms, so combined with weak Fe makes me ISTP then ?


In addition to the stuff we discussed about tertiary Ni + you have a very Se ish way of taking in information.
As you said in the beginning you need to have examples of how the functions or type manifest in real life.
And I feel that when I show you youtube examples you respond in a very Se'ish way.
The ISTP have the same approach to Se and Ni as the ISFP so everything I said when we played with
the idea of you being ISFP relating to Se and Ni would still hold as an ISTP.
You also have a very Se'ish attitude towards looking at the opposite sex.

I found the way you responded to to Snoop Dogs videos very Fe'ish since to you they
where basically all slotted within one big group of "Mafia". 
And being part of that group deserved the same treatment.
Only Betas and Deltas think like that and deltas don't run around wishing physical punishment on people
in specific ways. If they annoy them they want them out of sight like in a dungeon.
Being out of sight and mind they can be happy again, cause as long as the sensory reality
of their victims isn't forced upon them they could care less.
Si is the force of cencorship basically, like when showing boobs on television is banned,
or when swearing is removed with a beep.
And they rarely resort to the kind of physical force that you have talked about using on occation.
It is just not how deltas view the world. 
They want justice as that is defined in the law.
If they want to punish something they are back on the group level.
This group/system/trend etc is the thing that needs to be put in place.
People are just cogwheels in the machine for Deltas.
And just as expendible if they don't perform up to their expected role.

However the irony is that there is always a tension within each quadra.
In Delta you see this between STJs and NFPs.
The NFP wants to change it into something else and the STJs want things to stay the same.
However they always agree on ending up with a society with roles and expectations.
Like British Aristocracy, especially before the first world war.
Everyone knew their place in society.

In Betas this is between NFJs and STPs where the NFJs dream of a new movement,
that will sweep the land and trough some ideal, bring them everything they ever dreamt of.
While the STPs are just trying to carve out their little piece of what is already there.


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## Mr inappropriate (Dec 17, 2013)

S/N axis, I'm pretty confident with where I stand.
F/T is killing me though. I believe I'm a Ji dom so ISTP is very likely untill




I watch videos like that. Thats soo not me. 

Whats that about not wanting a instruction when building sth up. I purchased a chair from ikea yesterday, my first thing to do was taking a look at manual. I went by it step by step. There is one point I got confused because the wheels had something extra which the manual didnt show, I tried to get rid of that small part. What happened was I made the wheel dysfunctional, that small part was supposed to be there. After trying for an hour and using oil, I put the part back in the wheel. Point is I love reading instructions and manuals. I believe, I'm the only one who has read the instruction manual of the car and its not because I'll try to fix things, change filters of the engine by myself or sth. 
doesnt sound very ISTPish as far as I can tell.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

crashbandicoot said:


> S/N axis, I'm pretty confident with where I stand.
> F/T is killing me though. I believe I'm a Ji dom so ISTP is very likely untill
> 
> 
> ...


Yup that is an ISTP alright, my Dad is like that.
Just fixing up stuff on his own.
Tearing down wall putting in beams, all on their own initiative and Ti\Se understanding of the world.
You sound more like me in that respect.
When I do stuff like that I usually forget stuff or just try something.
I don't trust myself with huge projects like that, but I can get decent results IRL.
I really like plans and manuals when I'm stuck.
Nothing like having a default method to fall back on when things become hard.

It could be that you are an ISFP with a high Social enneagram instinct,
it might explain the things that we would want to attribute to Fe.

*But I know that my ISTP father doesn't shun the manuals when he needs them.*
He actually collects lots of them and keep them around in case he needs them.
I'm wondering if the ISTP in the video is kinda bragging a little.
So take that with a grain of salt.


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## Mr inappropriate (Dec 17, 2013)

hornet said:


> Yup that is an ISTP alright, my Dad is like that.
> Just fixing up stuff on his own.
> Tearing down wall putting in beams, all on their own initiative and Ti\Se understanding of the world.
> You sound more like me in that respect.
> ...


I think I have a great example actually deciding for Te/Ti for me;

I like cars, I'm almost enthusiastic about them. I try to learn stuff about electronic safety equipment in cars, engine capacities, hp, 0-100 accelerations etc. but only to make sure about if my car is secure/fast enough compared to others. That way I know, when I can beat another car in lil traffic light drags. 
I mean I gather info to increase my competitiveness or securing of not getting defeated(or just making sure that I'm safe). I just wont bother if their car is faster.
So, I actually know a lot about specifics of the cars more than even the salespeople .
However, I dont have slightest interest in modification of engines, how engines work or doing mechanic stuff with my car, owner workshop type of things (changing filters, routine controls ..). 

I dont how weird ^^ that sounds ! 
But in my eyes an ISTP car enth. would be the guy who is doing at least the basic maintenance of the car by himself. 
I believe, I'm a stronger Te user than Ti. Kinda of a living catalog, I dont have much of subjective thoughts on things but rather have quite a lot of objective/concrete information. :happy:


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

crashbandicoot said:


> I think I have a great example actually deciding for Te/Ti for me;
> 
> I like cars, I'm almost enthusiastic about them. I try to learn stuff about electronic safety equipment in cars, engine capacities, hp, 0-100 accelerations etc. but only to make sure about if my car is secure/fast enough compared to others. That way I know, when I can beat another car in lil traffic light drags.
> I mean I gather info to increase my competitiveness or securing of not getting defeated(or just making sure that I'm safe). I just wont bother if their car is faster.
> ...


Well any type could learn to do anything.
Te only learns what it feels that it needs to be effective.
Ti learns more than it needs cause it get caught up in efficency issues.
My dad loves to speculate what route he should take to get from A to B more efficiently.
Shaving off a minute here and there. For no reason.
I only do that if I need to catch a train so to speak.


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## Mr inappropriate (Dec 17, 2013)

well, I dont think Ti is in my ego. in all my education life, I only learned stuff to pass the exams.
I was very efficient though, like me and a friend is studying together, I skip parts that doesnt look to be related to previous exam questions and be done in 2 hours while he studies at least 5 hours.
Then, we get the same grade, but he is a lot more knowledgeable about that course than me. Actually in all people in my university I'm probably the one who least knows about stuff, yet my GP is in the top %25-30 or sth.
how does that sound ? Te ? or I'm just getting caught up in unrelated things ?


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

crashbandicoot said:


> well, I dont think Ti is in my ego. in all my education life, I only learned stuff to pass the exams.
> I was very efficient though, like me and a friend is studying together, I skip parts that doesnt look to be related to previous exam questions and be done in 2 hours while he studies at least 5 hours.
> Then, we get the same grade, but he is a lot more knowledgeable about that course than me. Actually in all people in my university I'm probably the one who least knows about stuff, yet my GP is in the top %25-30 or sth.
> how does that sound ? Te ? or I'm just getting caught up in unrelated things ?


Well this corner cutting behaviour may well be Ti.
But it is hard to say for sure.
It is obvious Ni pattern detection with the trying to study things that seem to fall in the pattern of likely
to be tested, I remember doing so myself. Wanting to save time on studying is one thing.
But you do it to get the effect of high grades.
Question is if you like nitpicking basic stuff or not.
Like really getting into the nitty gritty of a problem for the sake of the problem being facinating.
Ti seem to view the result as some bonus side effect, while to Te the result is the whole point.
As long as the result is gotten. Of course Te will be concerned with efficency also,
but if the difference is negligible and not really important to achieving the result Te could care less.
Ti on the other hand can get obsessed with getting things down perfect.
And may go so far as doing projects that have goals that doesn't achieve much at all other than being efficient.

A good example is trying to optimize the kitchen rutines abord the Titanic while it is sinking.
It doesn't really matter if you succeed cause it will never be of any use.
But Ti can tend to retreat into a subjective bubble of solving problems without any real utility,
just because the problem is interesting in itself.

My ISTP father is a good example in constantly programming really complex programs that
do all sorts of manipulations on grocerylists and stuff.
Perhaps helping him save a buck or two on buying milk or something,
*IF HE EVER MANAGED TO FINISH THE DAMN THING AND NOT RESTART IT, 
FROM ANOTHER JUST AS MEANINGLESS ANGLE! xD*
I'm talking about *years of effort into basically nothing.*
If not for the programming skills he whould have nothing.

It doesn't concern itself with real results, it could, but it doesn't care too much.
Only thing that can spur Ti onto doing something in an objective sense is Fe.
Once you have some collective value demanding results, my dad will sacrifice his health to see it happen.
No expence will be saved. In this way the efficency focus hurt him, cause he rather be hurt than lose time,
and all that matters is pushing trough for the greater good.
That is how my ENFJ sister operates too in a way, just that she is doing it backwards.

I noticed that you where talking about being hung up on safety equipment earlier.
That isn't so normal for Betas, and Gammas well it depends.
Deltas and Alphas tend to be more into that due to Si wanting to keep things stable.
But *there isn't any hard bent rules on any behaviour trait.*
*Any type can do anything, *
and that is why you have to go the cognitive function appraoch to get a reliable result.


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## Mr inappropriate (Dec 17, 2013)

nit picking for the sake of problem being attractive to me ? not really, I guess my mbti is a problem and I'm kinda nitpicking but its not sake of the problem in case, its more like I want to be sure, trying to tie up all loose ends. outside confirmation from everyone involved is one likely solution for that. thats why I'm going on on here, sorry if its bothering anyone.



> A good example is trying to optimize the kitchen rutines abord the Titanic while it is sinking.
> It doesn't really matter if you succeed cause it will never be of any use.
> But Ti can tend to retreat into a subjective bubble of solving problems without any real utility,
> just because the problem is interesting in itself.


this sounds more like OCD type of behavior than Ti to me which I find absurd.

I think security stuff is most likely to be connected to enneagram type 6.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

crashbandicoot said:


> nit picking for the sake of problem being attractive to me ? not really, I guess my mbti is a problem and I'm kinda nitpicking but its not sake of the problem in case, its more like I want to be sure, trying to tie up all loose ends. outside confirmation from everyone involved is one likely solution for that. thats why I'm going on on here, sorry if its bothering anyone.
> this sounds more like OCD type of behavior than Ti to me which I find absurd.
> 
> I think security stuff is most likely to be connected to enneagram type 6.


Sounds likely connected to 6 the security yes.
Well so far I can't say I've convinced of the Beta angle.
You generally didn't respond well to any Beta examples I sent you.
But it was interesting exploring that angle.

I actually like this kind of stuff as long as I have the time and energy.
Right now I'm in the zone and feelinge good. 
So no I'm not bothered, I'm sure my 8 wing would have told you long ago.
I lost an interesting discussion a little while back cause I was too vocal about my own state of mind. xD

Anyway, having gone down the rabbithole of ISTP I still feel ISFP explains more.
So I would stick with that interpretation for now.
I recently encountered an SFP with Social instincts high.
He liked to be all in the mix and get attention sort of what you described.
But he was obviously not comming from a Fe frame.
So from what I've seen so far from you I would guess at ISFP 6w7 So/Sp.
Although So/Sx is possible too, the instinctual types are tricky man. :-/


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## Mr inappropriate (Dec 17, 2013)

The real reason I'm concerned with bothering people is because I'd hate it if somebody just wouldn't figure things out and keep going on and on about the same thing... anyway I'm relieved a bit now that I'm not bothering you.


> So from what I've seen so far from you I would guess at ISFP 6w7 So/Sp.
> 
> Although So/Sx is possible too, the instinctual types are tricky man. :-/


actually, while being confident is Se/Ni and confused a lot about Tx/Fx, do tell me sth. It is that I probably have T/F as aux/tert so they are harder to separate clearly like S/N. that will fit with looking at things from the reverse, like maybe I'm 6w7 sp/sx ESxP.

I think I've read all internet threads about Te vs Ti and I still cant decide. lol :sad: 
I'll look @ Fe/Fi now, maybe that will give a better idea.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

crashbandicoot said:


> The real reason I'm concerned with bothering people is because I'd hate it if somebody just wouldn't figure things out and keep going on and on about the same thing... anyway I'm relieved a bit now that I'm not bothering you.
> 
> actually, while being confident is Se/Ni and confused a lot about Tx/Fx, do tell me sth. It is that I probably have T/F as aux/tert so they are harder to separate clearly like S/N. that will fit with looking at things from the reverse, like maybe I'm 6w7 sp/sx ESxP.
> 
> ...


Well ESFP is a possibility too, for sure.
If you are ESFP it can be a little hard to see the dots connect between all those factual points.

ISFP






ESFP


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## Mr inappropriate (Dec 17, 2013)

Richard Brenson is soooo cool, lol. I think he is great seriously. I love that how he decorated inside of planes, lights, seats and stuff. I'd definitely chose virgin airlines if I'd have a flight. I really like the mentality however he seems more energetic and involved than me but he is a successful CEO, so its to be expected. Beckham is also very cool, but I guess I'd be try to be more funny and less serious if I was on a TV show.

I believe, at my best, I'd somewhere between these too. but, I just loved the CEO's ideas and what he has done with the company. he's also laid back and leisurely, I mean he's not that serious which I'm like as well. If I ever find a job, I'd want it to be fun. a simple leather jacket and a jeans for the CEO to wear, cool !


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

crashbandicoot said:


> Richard Brenson is soooo cool, lol. I think he is great seriously. I love that how he decorated inside of planes, lights, seats and stuff. I'd definitely chose virgin airlines if I'd have a flight. I really like the mentality however he seems more energetic and involved than me but he is a successful CEO, so its to be expected. Beckham is also very cool, but I guess I'd be try to be more funny and less serious if I was on a TV show.
> 
> I believe, at my best, I'd somewhere between these too. but, I just loved the CEO's ideas and what he has done with the company. he's also laid back and leisurely, I mean he's not that serious which I'm like as well. If I ever find a job, I'd want it to be fun. a simple leather jacket and a jeans for the CEO to wear, cool !


That is an interesting reaction.
Yeah I think ESFP seems just like you.
Off course Branson will not be like every ESFP out there, always differences.


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