# Why do SLI's hurt the ones they love?



## Foxyfox (Oct 21, 2016)

Hi hi.. This question is for my duals, Whyyy do SLI's enjoy hurting they ones they love? I have some close SLI's in my life who confide in me and have admitted to enjoying/ and intentionally hurting their significant others. My ex was also an SLI and after years and years of drama, during a fight I asked why he likes to see me hurt and he laughed and said "I actually only like it when I hurt you". It turned me off completely (considering I'm an IEE and i'm in constant search for inner peace).. I am trying to understand the SLI completely because I personally want to know if I should avoid my the idea of finding a dual for a romantic pairing forever. 

So again I want to know why you guys enjoy hurting loved ones? Why the need? What do you get out of it? Is it power or control? I just don't understand it because I would never wanna hurt the ppl I love... I don't wanna hear "that is only an unhealthy SLI" because I've actually seen it with every SLI I know ... even my own mother and uncle and growing up I just always wanted to get in their heads and understand why! You guys are great friends and co workers and whatever but romantically you're something else! *I even just found the following paragraph online after I finished posting this (so I edited this post to add the paragraph)*

"_But here comes a twist. ISTps can often hurt the ones they love. Why would you want to do this? The one way to understand your feelings towards the loved ones is by hurting them and watching them suffer, only then you can be sure of how much you love them. Sounds cruel, but unfortunately this is the strange nature of this particular type of hidden agenda, which cannot be used as an excuse for such behaviour."_

Please be candid with your responses. Thanks in advance


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## counterintuitive (Apr 8, 2011)

Sounds like Fi HA, which is only confirmed by your quote at the bottom. I'm guessing it's Fi HA because it sounds like the Fi version of what Fe HA does, which is to say stuff that the xLE thinks will get an emotional reaction, to get more Fe information, to make a judgment.

With HA, most people don't have enough refinement to *reliably* make a positive impact and then check the response, so they make a negative impact instead.


I think most people would say Duality is still worth it, but I'm more flexible about this. If this particular behavior is an absolute deal breaker for you, you could also consider your Activators, LSE. Fi suggestive has too little conscious use of Fi to try this.

But I'd still advise against writing off all SLIs. :tongue: HA matures with age, too.


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## Foxyfox (Oct 21, 2016)

counterintuitive said:


> Sounds like Fi HA, which is only confirmed by your quote at the bottom. I'm guessing it's Fi HA because it sounds like the Fi version of what Fe HA does, which is to say stuff that the xLE thinks will get an emotional reaction, to get more Fe information, to make a judgment.
> 
> With HA, most people don't have enough refinement to *reliably* make a positive impact and then check the response, so they make a negative impact instead.
> 
> ...


That an interesting take.. it makes a lot of sense in regards to xLE. Thanks for that


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## PluckyDucky (Apr 17, 2019)

First off, my thanks to counterintuitive for their thoughts. They have some really good points (as per usual).


Hi foxyfox, I'll put my answer in this thread, but I'll also draw from what you said in the other one.

It's common for people to go from not thinking anyone is a certain type, to thinking lots of people are a certain type after doing some research. It could be part of the process of typing better, and the real number could be lower.

Yes a lot of socionics descriptions do paint SLI's as not great. So it doesn't feel good to read this question. I understand you have been hurt, but please don't generalise SLI's as horrible people. It's quite insulting, especially given the particular line of hurting the ones they love. I think for many SLI's, bonds are not common or easy, and to insinuate all SLI's are destructive in their relationships is not cool.

However perhaps there are some elements of truth, not just from your own experience, but in general as well. Also in my own experience.

I hurt an IEE I came to know over the past year. Our relationship is over now. I hurt her when I became cold and left suddenly, something that happened a few times. She was sensitive to that, as I think many would be, and she stated it as breaking her trust.

However I did that not to shield myself or out of spite or pleasure, but because I cared deeply about the relationship we had, and I did not want to put it in danger. Everytime I went cold or hurt her, was when she pushed the limits of our closeness, while there were walls and unresolved issues with her and also between us. I wanted to be closer, she wanted to be closer, but when not in the heat of the moment she and I had talked and shared at length about our issues, and I knew without resolving those things a closer relationship would end badly. 

Maybe I was wrong, but I did what I did for our bond, to keep a true friend in my life, because they are incredibly rare.

For a long time this was okay. Later on she became despondent and stopped being as good a friend, I don't know why for sure. I did everything I could to make things better for many months, all the while feeling sad and used. Then things took a very bad turn and I spent about 6 months trying to hold together some sort of relationship with her, even under extreme duress, not in small part because of her actions.

I'm 25, and I'm trying to make clear to you that there is a big difference between small Fi pokes to garner a reaction, and intentionally hurting the one they love. I have been accused of intentionally hurting someone only one time in the past, and there was no evidence given to back up the claim. I have caused pain through inaction and restraint, especially to IEE's, but to keep the peace, not destroy it recklessly. Those small Fi pokes that come from HA placement, to check where we stand is a sign of immaturity, talking with another middle aged IEE about this I can say with confidence that we do graduate to just asking "hey how do you feel about me/do you like me as much as I like you?" Which is still sort of lame, but is better than going for negative reactions as clues.

So SLI's can cause pain, but the kind you seem to be describing is concerning to say the least and not something I think can be applied generally. I don't think it's a sign of an unhealthy SLI, so much as an unhealthy person. I think it's worth considering that unhappy people caught in a relationship might be looking for a way out, and that could manifest as tormenting the other person.

That being said socionics is meant to try and help people, especially in their relationships with others. I think I once called duality the big one at some point, and unfortunately I think I was right. In any relationship of any level there are considerations not just about each other but also your relationship. But for duals the stakes are just so effing high.

When you are around a conflictor sure yeah it can suck; they stress the importance of stuff you suck at, but really you don't care about it, you don't really value that information, even though it still feels bad to know you aren't good at something. But with duals it's the real vulnerable spots, and there is so much to be careful of. Maybe 25 is young in development terms, so I'm still not experienced enough yet, but tbh I'm pretty scared of IEE's. I'm generally wary of beta quadras, but so far nothing in my life has ever come close to the damage a poor relationhsip with an IEE can cause, it is crushing.

So I guess I disagree with your premise. I think it is a sign of general unhealthiness and immaturity for an SLI to intentionally cause a lot of pain, and a sign of inexperience to cause small amounts in order to learn about their own feelings (and feelings in general). Other kinds of hurt do happen, conflict is unavoidable, but trust me when I say that a small hit to an SLI's Fi feels to them like a smack with a steel chair. Many SLI's do not get into any relationships, and tread with a lot of caution, because the backlash is terrifying. Even the possibility of hurt there is bad, because even though HA Fi can sometimes be a bit on or off, if a loved one (an actual loved one) were to hit back there would always be a reaction, because it's a sensitive area.

It's a complicated subject, but you definitely have some good points, and it's not a bad question. My advice is not to avoid the idea of finding a dual for a romantic pairing forever. I get what you mean when you say they are the hottest type (lol). Duals can offer so much, at least once you start getting to know each other. I wouldn't take back any of my time with the last IEE I knew; I might feel broken inside, but I'm a better man than I was before because of those experiences. Duals give you what you need not just what you want, and that is not easy. I called it the big one, mostly because it's not easy, but also beacuse I think it's worth it.

To be candid I hope you find someone who can give you a measure of inner peace, no matter their type, but if it's SLI then the journey can take a while.


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## To_august (Oct 13, 2013)

Foxyfox said:


> Hi hi.. This question is for my duals, Whyyy do SLI's enjoy hurting they ones they love? I have some close SLI's in my life who confide in me and have admitted to enjoying/ and intentionally hurting their significant others. My ex was also an SLI and after years and years of drama, during a fight I asked why he likes to see me hurt and he laughed and said "I actually only like it when I hurt you". It turned me off completely (considering I'm an IEE and i'm in constant search for inner peace).. I am trying to understand the SLI completely because I personally want to know if I should avoid my the idea of finding a dual for a romantic pairing forever.
> 
> So again I want to know why you guys enjoy hurting loved ones? Why the need? What do you get out of it? Is it power or control? I just don't understand it because I would never wanna hurt the ppl I love... I don't wanna hear "that is only an unhealthy SLI" because I've actually seen it with every SLI I know ... even my own mother and uncle and growing up I just always wanted to get in their heads and understand why! You guys are great friends and co workers and whatever but romantically you're something else! *I even just found the following paragraph online after I finished posting this (so I edited this post to add the paragraph)*
> 
> ...


Socionics-wise SLI's have weak ethics. Their natural conscious focus lies elsewhere, and that's why they may frequently neglect other people's feelings or unintentionally hurt others. For the same reason most of the time they'd be oblivious they indeed hurt somebody unless you're straightforward about it and point it out (I think SLI's 2D Fi must be a bit better at getting a clue than 1D Fi types though). Anything else goes beyond theory and lends itself in the framework of a specific person inner workings. 

To laugh and say things like "I actually only like it when I hurt you", honestly, the person is just a dick. Being certain type isn't an excuse for being an asshole. Most people lack emotional maturity regardless of type, and it's disturbing to me that people are willing to consent to the idea that it is to be expected from _someone _to disrespect and treat others like garbage just because this _someone _is certain type. If a person admits they enjoy hurting others and it's not just a friendly joke or a pun, they have serious issues imo. It's best to set your boundaries and disengage from communicating with such person. There is absolutely no gain in spending one's own time and efforts on assholes and toxic relationships.

The paragraph must be from some joking description. I can't imagine a serious source would have it.


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## counterintuitive (Apr 8, 2011)

To_august said:


> To laugh and say things like "I actually only like it when I hurt you", honestly, the person is just a dick. Being certain type isn't an excuse for being an asshole. Most people lack emotional maturity regardless of type, and it's disturbing to me that people are willing to consent to the idea that it is to be expected from _someone _to disrespect and treat others like garbage just because this _someone _is certain type. If a person admits they enjoy hurting others and it's not just a friendly joke or a pun, they have serious issues imo. It's best to set your boundaries and disengage from communicating with such person. There is absolutely no gain in spending one's own time and efforts on assholes and toxic relationships.


Fundamentally, this is correct. The way someone goes about this type of "misbehavior" (if we want to call it that) can be type-related, but the fact that someone consistently misbehaves like this, is not type-related, but something specific to the person.



PluckyDucky said:


> First off, my thanks to counterintuitive for their thoughts. They have some really good points (as per usual).


Thanks :kitteh:



> I'm 25, and I'm trying to make clear to you that there is a big difference between small Fi pokes to garner a reaction, and intentionally hurting the one they love. I have been accused of intentionally hurting someone only one time in the past, and there was no evidence given to back up the claim. I have caused pain through inaction and restraint, especially to IEE's, but to keep the peace, not destroy it recklessly. Those small Fi pokes that come from HA placement, to check where we stand is a sign of immaturity, talking with another middle aged IEE about this I can say with confidence that we do graduate to just asking "hey how do you feel about me/do you like me as much as I like you?" Which is still sort of lame, but is better than going for negative reactions as clues. [...]
> 
> So I guess I disagree with your premise. I think it is a sign of general unhealthiness and immaturity for an SLI to intentionally cause a lot of pain, and a sign of inexperience to cause small amounts in order to learn about their own feelings (and feelings in general). [...]


Good distinction here between the small pokes or unintentional mistakes vs. someone deliberately trying to cause an emotional problem for the other person. The former is bound to happen with a Logical type especially before HA/Role (whichever one is the Ethics element) develops more. The latter is a _deliberate_ action, which as you said, indicates unhealthiness or dysfunction etc. that is not type-related.


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## Zidane (Sep 9, 2015)

Because the general consensus is that logic + sensing turns you into an asshole. A lack of ethics + a lack of seeing the unseen and you'll have difficulty seeing the impact of your actions.People who say "I like to see you hurt", only say so because they do not truly see the hurt. What they see is superficial, such as a person crying. An empathic person would never intentionally hurt those they love because the pain is felt themselves + when the person is happy they also feel happy. Thus, an empathic person is invested in making his SO happy, whereas a low empathic person is not. Thus, SLI's generally have low empathy. Most empaths are ethics + feeling and SLI is opposite of that, so I am not very surprised. Yes, we are generalizing here, FYI.


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## Foxyfox (Oct 21, 2016)

PluckyDucky said:


> First off, my thanks to counterintuitive for their thoughts. They have some really good points (as per usual).
> 
> 
> Hi foxyfox, I'll put my answer in this thread, but I'll also draw from what you said in the other one.
> ...


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## pwowq (Aug 7, 2016)

SLI's don't actively pursues to hurt people. It's just people who are overly sensitive towards the harschness called "reality". Thru the eyes of an SLI there's no difference between "people they dislike" and "people they like" when communicating, they're all "people". I like this aspect, it makes them more than average trustworthy, I don't have to put up a fascade becuase they don't care about that shallow shit.


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## Foxyfox (Oct 21, 2016)

X


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## counterintuitive (Apr 8, 2011)

Foxyfox said:


> Ugh my bad I mistyped the ESI's in my life for SLI's


Well, for an Fi base type, there's no Socionics-related excuse for this behavior-- though I'd have to think more about this. But the Fi HA reasoning (not an excuse, but a partial explanation) we discussed earlier can't apply to Fi bases.

Interesting.


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## Foxyfox (Oct 21, 2016)

counterintuitive said:


> Foxyfox said:
> 
> 
> > Ugh my bad I mistyped the ESI's in my life for SLI's
> ...


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## counterintuitive (Apr 8, 2011)

Foxyfox said:


> Yeah I know, what you said previously does make a lot of sense for SLI’s. With regard to SEI’s their romantic/ erotic attitude is the aggressor style so that’s one explanation, another thing is they are typed to be pretty revengeful, and since they are super sensitive, cutting my ex off because I couldn’t deal with the “sadistic” “Aggressor” romantic games that a “victim” type (their dual) would be able to put up with and even enjoy, my ex SEI considered it abandonment and made sure to get revenge.. so that relationship was just hurt on hurt on hurt and then punishment for not staying and putting up with the hurt loll.. but I’m not even analyzing it anymore. THANK GOD I figured out it was another type and not my dual SLI. That’s all I really wanted- to know that there is hope with my dual type, since I’d never be willing to have another relationship like the one I mistook for my dual! Huge relief! Although with this discovery I also discovered my parents were duals - and I supervised my mother and benefited my father lollll Jesus! The whole thing with figuring out my SLI/ SEI mistyping clarified everything and it all makes a ton of sense now!


(I guess you mean ESI, not SEI.  )

Glad you figured it out. And, as you know, ESI is your Supervisee, which would explain much of this negative perception too.

Your parents were ESI and LIE I guess-- just curious what it was like growing up with dual parents? You don't have to answer if you don't want to btw.


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## Foxyfox (Oct 21, 2016)

counterintuitive said:


> (I guess you mean ESI, not SEI.  )
> 
> Glad you figured it out. And, as you know, ESI is your Supervisee, which would explain much of this negative perception too.
> 
> Your parents were ESI and LIE I guess-- just curious what it was like growing up with dual parents? You don't have to answer if you don't want to btw.



Nuts actually, duality isn’t all sunshine and rainbows after all, they used to enjoy fighting and it used to get out of hand. They did understand each other pretty well but they seemed to love chaos. I did read about that pairing and how they enjoy fighting and consider the fighting a sign of “passion”. Ugh fk duality #imdonewithit lol

But in relation to me it was ok actually. My dad kind of admired me I dunno if it was because ENTJ's just love their daughters or because I was strong where he was weak. My mom kind of needed me, they kind of both did. It sounds weird but I felt like I was the glue, and mediator and I felt like my mom didn't always like that I held that much power.


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## Veni Vidi Vici (Jun 8, 2018)

Recently watched a documentary about Chris Watts, the infamous murderer who killed his wife and 2 small children. I think he is most likely SLI and his late wife Shanann Watts was EIE. Though I could accept ESI typing for him.


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## Foxyfox (Oct 21, 2016)

Veni Vidi Vici said:


> Recently watched a documentary about Chris Watts, the infamous murderer who killed his wife and 2 small children. I think he is most likely SLI and his late wife Shanann Watts was EIE. Though I could accept ESI typing for him.


I watched it! Thank you- because that actually clarified that I was also mistyping an EIE in my life for an ESI (based on your typing of the wife)


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## kurogane21 (Aug 24, 2019)

About SLI , it reminds me to my crush
I'm EII girl 

Although , we are close friends but sometimes we fight and we ever didn't talked each other for 2 weeks XD


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## counterintuitive (Apr 8, 2011)

Foxyfox said:


> Nuts actually, duality isn’t all sunshine and rainbows after all, they used to enjoy fighting and it used to get out of hand. They did understand each other pretty well but they seemed to love chaos. I did read about that pairing and how they enjoy fighting and consider the fighting a sign of “passion”. Ugh fk duality #imdonewithit lol
> 
> But in relation to me it was ok actually. My dad kind of admired me I dunno if it was because ENTJ's just love their daughters or because I was strong where he was weak. My mom kind of needed me, they kind of both did. It sounds weird but I felt like I was the glue, and mediator and I felt like my mom didn't always like that I held that much power.


I've read that too about both xSI-xIE Dualities. Maybe some Se creative/HA thing.

You'd be your dad's Benefactor, so it does make sense for that. Yeah, you would have been able to provide him with Fi input.

Thanks for writing this. I'm interested lately in family types and the resulting intertype relations.


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## Foxyfox (Oct 21, 2016)

counterintuitive said:


> I've read that too about both xSI-xIE Dualities. Maybe some Se creative/HA thing.
> 
> You'd be your dad's Benefactor, so it does make sense for that. Yeah, you would have been able to provide him with Fi input.
> 
> Thanks for writing this. I'm interested lately in family types and the resulting intertype relations.



Same here. I always try to figure out what inter type couplings produced what sociotype babies LOL. Ill be honest though- My dad 100% LIE but mom not 100% certain still, there might also be a chance she could be an IEI as well, she was always depressed so its hard typing her. 

You should watch "Three identical strangers" if you haven't already. Its pretty interesting.. its a documentary about triplets separated at birth and given to 3 different families with the same family structure - All married parents and an older sister.. so basically same family structure but different household incomes (from what I remember). I believe these "mad scientists" were trying to study the effects of socioeconomics on the personality / on the overall human functioning. They monitored the children over the years and would visit each one and report "progress" or findings or whatever.. They have the whole study locked up at Yale university and haven't released the documents, even after the documentary was released. sadly I think they're waiting for all the brothers to pass away before they do.

Long story short; the 3 brothers reunited by coincidence once they reached university (without knowing anything about each other prior). The story went viral in the 80s, and when they learned about each other they discovered that their personalities were very similar, one fun fact they all shared - they all were attracted to older women lol (which I personally think it could have something to do with them all having been adopted into families with one older sister). Later however, one of the brothers committed suicide. From watching the documentary I typed the brother that passed as an SEE and his adopted father an LSI, which would make them supervisor/ Supervisee. They emphasized that the son was a free spirit and the father was a military man and was violent with him. My thoughts are, IF ONLY THEY KNEW ABOUT SOCIONICS!! Its not discussed often but Socionics has taught ME that intertype relationships are CRUCIAL and play a vital role in the overall psychology, health and well being of an individual ... which thus affects society (since psychologically distressed people are less likely to contribute positively to society). Anyways those were my thoughts. As horrible as the actual story is, the documentary itself is brainfood if you're anyone like me lol. 

If you do watch it come back and share your thoughts!

K bye


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## Wisteria (Apr 2, 2015)

This is projecting to be bluntly honest.


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## Eset (Jun 7, 2016)

> Why do SLI's hurt the ones they love?


Terrible question.


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## Foxyfox (Oct 21, 2016)

narcissistic said:


> > Why do SLI's hurt the ones they love?
> 
> 
> Terrible question.


 🏻


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