# Type my crazy sister(VERY hard)



## ManBearPig (Nov 25, 2010)

Hi :happy:

I'm 16, my sister is 19 and I've had some trouble figuring out what she is. Maybe I have trouble 'reading' her because we're so different from each other - She is highly extroverted and I'm practically a hermit

She's happy and silly, noticing weird stuff - she pays a lot of attention to details in movies, the light, the way it's filmed, the sound... When she went to a psychologist she was called very analytical in her thinking and living for the moment. 
She likes to party, doing drugs, drinking(I've noticed some addicting tendencies) and doing crazy stuff with her friends. Sensation seeker all the way. She loves to entertain people with stories and is known as 'the funny one'. She easily makes friends which I envy:frustrating:

But then again everytime something gets too boring and she can't listen to music or whatever, she starts daydreaming. She is highly imaginative, creative and she knows a lot of unusual things. Her memory is very good and she has a lot of interests. I often ask her if she is high just to make fun of her:laughing:

When she was younger, she was a rebel. Used to fight a lot, started skipping classes at the age of 10. But she also used to read a lot when she suddenly got depressed at age 12-15. When I think back I find it hard to get that the person back then and the person now is actually the same

She have had a lot of drop-outs and refuses to think about future and what she wants to do with her live. She now lives at some kind of international school because she thinks living at home is too boring. I really don't know what to do:sad:


Any suggestions?


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## BeeInTheBonnet (Sep 15, 2010)

I would guess that she is Se dominant - either an ESTP or ESFP.


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## fairytales (Nov 15, 2010)

> she was called very analytical in her thinking and living for the moment.


..


> She likes to party, doing drugs, drinking(I've noticed some addicting tendencies) and doing crazy stuff with her friends. Sensation seeker all the way.


 *that makes me think S*


> But then again everytime something gets too boring and she can't listen to music or whatever, she starts daydreaming. She is highly imaginative, creative and she knows a lot of unusual things. Her memory is very good and she has a lot of interests


 *... F*


> Used to fight a lot, started skipping classes at the age of 10


.. *Not sure but seems more P than J*


> She is highly extroverted


* .. and clearly E*

So from what youve described I would say ESFP


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## anon (Oct 19, 2009)

Yes definitely ESTP or ESFP.


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## TheWaffle (Aug 4, 2010)

fairytales said:


> > But then again everytime something gets too boring and she can't listen to music or whatever, she starts daydreaming. She is highly imaginative, creative and she knows a lot of unusual things. Her memory is very good and she has a lot of interests
> 
> 
> *... F*


That's not an F trait; it sounds like intuition more than anything.

I think she's an ESFP with well-developed intuition.


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## ManBearPig (Nov 25, 2010)

Can you be ESFP and still daydreaming a lot and be very creative? I thought that was impossible... That's why I have had such a hard time typing her.
If that's true she probably is a ESFP

Thank you very much everybody


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## Baby Blue (Nov 22, 2010)

ESTP was my first reaction


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## penchant (Sep 20, 2010)

I don't think there enough data. Could be S, but could be N. Could be F, but could be T. Probably E and P though. Maybe ENFP... Anyway she seems to have several well developed functions. How would you describe her when she was younger?

And what is your type, just to know what reference point you have for understanding her behaviour?


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## ManBearPig (Nov 25, 2010)

penchant said:


> I don't think there enough data. Could be S, but could be N. Could be F, but could be T. Probably E and P though. Maybe ENFP... Anyway she seems to have several well developed functions. How would you describe her when she was younger?
> 
> And what is your type, just to know what reference point you have for understanding her behaviour?



My type is very INFP :happy:

I really dont think she is a T. She seems to be right in between ENFP and ESFP. Her behavior is very much ESFP, but then again she tends to daydream a lot and be very creative

She was pretty complicated in her childhood but I'll try:happy:
My parents have often said that when she was younger she was a daredevil. She would climb in trees, jump around random places and easily got lost in big cities(she actually still do that) if she saw something exiting or different. She had a good connection with animals. She was quite social but if the kids didn't wanted to play the way she did, she would rather play alone.
But in school she was unpopular because she started to become withdrawn and quiet. She used to fight a lot and started to avoid family. Teachers would refer to her as shy and intelligent, but missed the fact that she was very aggressive, hyper, impulsive and careless outside class. 
Thi behavior continued untill she was, well, probably 12 or something. Then she got really depressed but when people tried to tell her to keep herself together she would react in pure rage. She also would provoke my parents in public to embarass them and stuff. Back then me and my parents were convined that she was a maniac so at last she went to a psychologist and a psychiatrist at the same time.
The psychologist said that she probably suffered from PSTD but the psychiatrist thought she was bipolar like our mom and gave her some pills.
When she was 14 she tried to kill herself and my parents did nothing but tell her how THEY felt about the situation, called her egoistic and did nothing about it because they didn't think she was serious
The depressed phase ended when she went to boarding school at the age of 15. Then her whole character changed. This was probably the first time I was actually happy to have a bigger sister. 

Now she is like I've just described her in the first post. She still gets mood swings but they seem normal and don't last long because she is very positive. I'm proud of herroud:
I feel bad for writing this but my father used to hit her and me a lot and shout at us and call us stuff. My parents still sometimes refer to her as egoistical and mentally ill when they get mad at her. Some of her and my behaviour in the past was probably influenced by the way we was raised. Also we now know that she suffer from PSTD but she don't want any treatment. She hates psychologists
I didn't meant to write that much:laughing:


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## scarygirl (Aug 12, 2010)

This makes me think I am ESFP myself.


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## penchant (Sep 20, 2010)

ManBearPig said:


> My type is very INFP :happy:
> 
> I really dont think she is a T. She seems to be right in between ENFP and ESFP. Her behavior is very much ESFP, but then again she tends to daydream a lot and be very creative
> 
> ...


Thank you very much for that input. I will get to this, but I realise that it will take me some time to process all of it, so I won't be able to post tonight. But I'll be back...


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## firedell (Aug 5, 2009)

Baby Blue said:


> ESTP was my first reaction


Yerp. :laughing:


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## ManBearPig (Nov 25, 2010)

I've been 'observing' her today and this might be a little help, but I don't know since it's only 'surface' things

- She tends to gesticulate a LOT and when she tells a joke, she laughs at herself before others do
- She likes movies like Jackass or Scott Pilgrim vs. the World, Pulp Fiction 
- If she is bored she will do random stuff in front of me or even my parents, like dancing a silly dance or say something weird. I never know what to say
- She likes to debate
- When she's at home(which is boring to her, just like school) her mind will mostly be in her own fantasy world. People say she looks stoned - I just think she look painfully bored, almost depressed:laughing:


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## firedell (Aug 5, 2009)

You just proved more ESTP to me.


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## ManBearPig (Nov 25, 2010)

firedell said:


> You just proved more ESTP to me.


Can you explain?
:happy:


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## firedell (Aug 5, 2009)

High Se. Acting on impulse. But she mostly reminds me of an ESTP woman I know.


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## ManBearPig (Nov 25, 2010)

firedell said:


> High Se. Acting on impulse. But she mostly reminds me of an ESTP woman I know.


OK thank you:happy:
You're really helping me with this one. But can you explain where you see a T in her personality?


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## firedell (Aug 5, 2009)

ManBearPig said:


> OK thank you:happy:
> You're really helping me with this one. But can you explain where you see a T in her personality?


This one is hard for me to explain, she doesn't seem to show Fi.

Where as Ti is more present.



> Goals
> 
> Perhaps the notion of a goal explains why Lenore calls Ti Subjective:
> 
> ...


Introverted Thinking


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## ManBearPig (Nov 25, 2010)

To me she seems to be pretty much everyhing except IxxJ so you could be right.
She can think both abstract and logical but I'm not her so I don't know wether she prefer N or S. Sometimes she is very present but when she gets bored she is a dreamer. And she can say random things out of nowhere. But I do admit she talks a lot more about actions than actual feelings.
The same with the T and F thing. She loves to discuss at times yet sometimes avoid conflicts. And she hates romantic movies and dramas but I've seen her almost crying in the sad part of a movie.


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## ManBearPig (Nov 25, 2010)

Did I say I'm horrible at spelling correctly?


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## vel (May 17, 2010)

ManBearPig said:


> Yes that's probably why I didn't thought of her being a T in the first place. I've been reading a lot about ESTP's lately(yes, you almost convinced me) but then I'm like 'An extraverted sensor who daydreams? No way'. I'm still not sure but like penchant said, her childhood could have some influence


Daydreaming has nothing to do with being intuitive or sensor. Daydreaming is basically just introversion i.e. using your introverted functions for a while and just preoccupying with your internal thoughts and musings. If you look at cognitive layout of any personality, all personalities have introverted functions. It would be highly unhealthy for somebody to always use their extraverted functions and never introvert, never 'daydream'. Introverted functions let us have our own inner voice and vision.

Visual diagram:
Extraverted active ESTP: *Se*-Ti-*Fe*-Ni
Introverted 'daydreaming' ESTP: Se-*Ti*-Fe-*Ni*


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## ManBearPig (Nov 25, 2010)

vel said:


> Daydreaming has nothing to do with being intuitive or sensor. Daydreaming is basically just introversion i.e. using your introverted functions for a while and just preoccupying with your internal thoughts and musings. If you look at cognitive layout of any personality, all personalities have introverted functions. It would be highly unhealthy for somebody to always use their extraverted functions and never introvert, never 'daydream'. Introverted functions let us have our own inner voice and vision.
> 
> Visual diagram:
> Extraverted active ESTP: *Se*-Ti-*Fe*-Ni
> Introverted 'daydreaming' ESTP: Se-*Ti*-Fe-*Ni*


OK 
I'm just very confused because Se is about living in the present. And she also IS very good at all the here-and-now stuff... You know spontaniety, to relax and enjoy what is, to see, to hear, to feel. 
And when I read about Se it doesn't mention daydreaming at all - I know they CAN daydream but it is limited how much a person can daydream while still using Se as primary function


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## vel (May 17, 2010)

ManBearPig said:


> OK
> I'm just very confused because Se is about living in the present. And she also IS very good at all the here-and-now stuff... You know spontaniety, to relax and enjoy what is, to see, to hear, to feel.
> And when I read about Se it doesn't mention daydreaming at all - I know they CAN daydream but it is limited how much a person can daydream while still using Se as primary function


Yes Se dominant types tend to be very in there here and now 
But everybody daydreams still, although personal contemplations will vary person to person and I bet introverted functions strongly influence them. Though the extraverted functions sort of 'feed in' information from outside world for the introverted functions to then use.

Here are descriptions of introverted thinking and introverted intuition:
Introverted Thinking
Introverted Intuition


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## ManBearPig (Nov 25, 2010)

vel said:


> Yes Se dominant types tend to be very in there here and now
> But everybody daydreams still, although personal contemplations will vary person to person and I bet introverted functions strongly influence them. Though the extraverted functions sort of 'feed in' information from outside world for the introverted functions to then use.
> 
> Here are descriptions of introverted thinking and introverted intuition:
> ...


I have asked her what she is usually daydreaming about. She answered she would daydream about things or persons she has seen before. It is often something that could happen right now and often leads to action. She gave me a concrete example: If it's friday or thursday she suddenly start thinking about a party and she imagines who it would be with and what they would do and then text them to ask if they want to. 
If she can't get her thoughts or 'visualisations' into real life she gets restless. That trait often make her very determined on getting what she wants and usually she succeeds. But then again she is good at starting too many projects without finishing them all(I do that too:blushed
But if she has to sit still and wait for longer amounts of time she sometimes imagine someone sitting next to her and what they would say to each other. Highly inspired by previous conversations. Also when she see something that reminds her of something she has experienced before, pictures or 'small movies' are likely to pop up in her head...
She never think about what she wants to be when she grow up, I think. Or else she at least would have an idea of what kind of job she wants or where she will be next week

- That doesn't sound very ENTP. Just... ADD/ADHD-ish:crazy:


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## ManBearPig (Nov 25, 2010)

vel said:


> Daydreaming has nothing to do with being intuitive or sensor. Daydreaming is basically just introversion i.e. using your introverted functions for a while and just preoccupying with your internal thoughts and musings. If you look at cognitive layout of any personality, all personalities have introverted functions. It would be highly unhealthy for somebody to always use their extraverted functions and never introvert, never 'daydream'. Introverted functions let us have our own inner voice and vision.
> 
> Visual diagram:
> Extraverted active ESTP: *Se*-Ti-*Fe*-Ni
> Introverted 'daydreaming' ESTP: Se-*Ti*-Fe-*Ni*



She uses Ti a lot, I think. If I gave her the text she would probably agree. We watched a movie yesterday and she is very good at noticing errors or flaws in movies(what is possible/impossible). She has a critical streak. As for the Ni... Well she certainly seem to have a streak of that although I don't think she does that fairly often  Maybe it's because I'm not inside of her head haha:laughing:
Or wait... She DOES have a tendency to look behind people's real intentions but that's only if what she experiences is something very unusual... Get her thinking you know. What I am trying to say is that it seems to me that she uses that function a bit but it's only when she really has a reason to. If somebody is more sweet/rude to her than usual or if somebody has just changed their mind. Then she can be very judgemental...


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## dna3 (Jun 24, 2010)

Sounds EXACTLY like my ESTP friend, who also had a lot of trouble at home and eventually got emancipated. 



ManBearPig said:


> She loves to entertain people with stories and is known as 'the funny one'. She easily makes friends which I envy:frustrating:


This is exactly my ESTP friend's reputation. 



ManBearPig said:


> She likes to party, doing drugs, drinking(I've noticed some addicting tendencies) and doing crazy stuff with her friends. Sensation seeker all the way.


Very ESTP



ManBearPig said:


> But then again everytime something gets too boring and she can't listen to music or whatever, she starts daydreaming. She is highly imaginative, creative and she knows a lot of unusual things. Her memory is very good and she has a lot of interests.


My ESTP friend does that too, although I don't know if I'd call it daydreaming. She definitely keeps a journal in which she records her thoughts, which tend to be pretty self-critical. She's extremely creative and imaginative: she invents crazy detailed stories out of almost nothing, and she's studying to be a journalist. Also has great memory and lots of very different interests.



ManBearPig said:


> When she was younger, she was a rebel.


Yep.


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## ManBearPig (Nov 25, 2010)

I'm leaning very much toward ESTP now. I'm not 100% convinced but this thread actually helped me yesterday when I was talking to my sister. While writing in here I did some reflection about our family and me versus her and since then we have had much better conversations:happy:
It is not perfect but its working


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## Neon Knight (Aug 11, 2010)

vel said:


> I think what happens is that when a function starts developing, as first it can come through in this rather raw underdeveloped all-or-nothing manner. It can induce sudden changes in perception and behavior, new beliefs, new kind of thinking style, mood swings, and consequently change in relationships you had with family and friends. And over time it seems to settle in and mellow out so then instead of acting out it becomes more like another balanced dimension to your personality.


So it's possible that developing a new judging function like Te might want to take over something like Fi? I feel like I'm devaluing mine for a couple of reasons, one is that I seem to be wrong in judging things but mostly people and two, because logic seems more of a sensible way of judging, not that I do that well either but it feels more reliable for some reason.



vel said:


> ESFPs have Fi as secondary not Ti but I think Fi may produce similar effects to Ti as these two functions are actually quite similar to each other. I don't know what developing Fi feels like. I think it may lead the individual to develop a deep sense of self-worth but then become disillusioned by world outside that is much more devaluing to an individual. Alike Ti, Fi may lead the person to start developing strong inner value judgements i.e. strong opinions of one's own. Then if you live with J-type parents you can start clashing with them over it because Js try to create outer structure which can clash with P's inner structure.


If I'm correct at when exactly I feel like I developed Fi as far as my own values rather than those forced on me by peers, then it's like all of a sudden I cared about things that never mattered to me in the beginning and I've been forming my moral compass ever since. I'm wondering though if I'm misjudging me using Se vs Ti lately when I'm watching shows where I'm being overly critical because of the things I'm noticing when it comes to logical fallacies or holes in storylines kind of thing. It usually comes from noticing something not being said or being way different than what I think should have naturally followed, if that makes any sense.
Oh and I have a J mother so I know what you're referring to there for sure lol, it really sucks.


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## productivity (Apr 15, 2010)

ManBearPig said:


> My type is very INFP :happy:
> 
> I really dont think she is a T. She seems to be right in between ENFP and ESFP. Her behavior is very much ESFP, but then again she tends to daydream a lot and be very creative
> 
> ...


Wow, your sister has gone through a lot. I especially think she is ESFP, and it's a good thing that the boarding school she went to changed her a lot. Was this a therapeutic boarding school by any means? I heard this type of boarding school really caters to troubled teens...even for those who have bipolar disorders. 
I do hope your father treats her more differently now so that it wouldn't trigger her to go back to the way she was. Your sister needs all the love and care that she needs from her family, the therapies and counselling are just a small part of her transformation. :wink:


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## ManBearPig (Nov 25, 2010)

productivity said:


> Wow, your sister has gone through a lot. I especially think she is ESFP, and it's a good thing that the boarding school she went to changed her a lot. Was this a therapeutic boarding school by any means? I heard this type of boarding school really caters to troubled teens...even for those who have bipolar disorders.
> I do hope your father treats her more differently now so that it wouldn't trigger her to go back to the way she was. Your sister needs all the love and care that she needs from her family, the therapies and counselling are just a small part of her transformation. :wink:


Why would you go for the ESFP? I don't disagree. Just curious:wink:

No it wasn't. Just a 'normal' school xD And yes it was very good for her

My father is not treating her differently but she is getting better and better at handling it


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