# Fe vs Fi



## MissElle (Oct 1, 2017)

Hi, I want to find out my type. I first want to determine my first four functions.
In this thread, I want to find out if I use Fe or Fi more.

■BTW, please ask me questions if it helps you find out my F function!
■My examples here might be be fictional or based on reality.
But I give fictional examples "close to" reality! Don't judge!


So, based on my understandings ;

Fe=Judging based on external (majority's) values/norms.
Fi=Judging based on internal morals (not affected by the norms).


I also hear this every once in a while ;

Fe=Being affected by emotions of others, and being emotionally open.
Fi=Being affected by inner feelings, values and not by others.

***I think I use a bit of both!

______________________________________________________________________

●I have my inner values and morals sometimes. I may hide them or sacrifice them sometimes, but it still exists!
Though I passive aggressivly try to act on them.

Example 1)I would never date a rich but bad (based on MY morals) or boring or close minded person.

E2)I would not be able to work with a person who secretly betrays others in some ways.
*His actions would make me secretly mad!
*What if he does that to me too?!


●I highly believe in equality. Not just in between sexes, but also between people in general.
I might not openly express it though!

E)Why should A rest all the time, While B is working hard?
Why isn't A helping B?
Why aren't A & B treated equally?
B should stop working hard & make A do the rest of the things.
A is using B.
I hate A.


●I'm not a warm/emotional person. I'm shy. But I try not to be rude to people or bother them. I try to respect them, smile when I can. I try not to cause conflicts or confrontations.
Unless they wrong me, or bother me too much.
Then I may act passive aggressive!

●I really dislike it when people define other people's value (or being good/bad) "only" based on their job, money, social rank, level of education etc.

●I prefer harmony & I also get my feelings from others sometimes.

E)everytime my close relatives fight or sulk, I start feeling bad.

E2)If a close relative fights with her co-worker, gets fired or quits her job, or becomes depressed, I get really sad.

E3)I get very depressed if I feel hated or left out by a group of ppl.
I can't work/study in a place where I feel like that.

E4)getting complements from others, or being admired for something (a project, creativity, etc) can me really happy!

●Sometimes, I have to look at what others do in a special situation, in order to know what to do!

E)I'm in a classroom and the professor is lecturing.
I need to go to bathroom, go out etc.
I probably don't go out and wait to see what others (with similar situations) do.
Then I learn it & try to do the same.


E2)I'm invited to a party and I don't know the people really well.
I don't know what to wear, when to go, etc.
I may ask my close friends & relatives to help me.

...& I do the same when I'm in a moral or social dilemma!


●I try to be open minded & acceptive/respectful to different people, and the minorities.
Unless They are guilty or bad people in general.
And sometimes I have some values that are against social norms or the majorities.
I might not express them openly, but I don't deny or change them either.


●I'm not assertive or blunt enough.

E)When I recieve a gift, I try to pretend I like it, even If I don't.

E2)When two people argue, I secretly judge them & take side, but If they ask me to take a side & tell them what I think, I try not to do that & I sugar coat what I want to say, or keep quiet.



●I try to watch my actions alot when I'm around people. I try not to be funny or open around most people, cause I don't want to accidentally make them sad/mad.
I try not to joke around or be loud.


●I'm not comfortable with emotions & feelings.
I wish I could be careless and not sensitive.
Everytime someone/something bothers me, makes me cry, or makes me depressed, I start feeling uncomfortable and wish I could be emotionless.

Also, if someone cries or talks to me about an emotional situation & asks for my help, I start feeling awkward, and don't know what to say, or what not to say!
______________________________________________________________________


So, yeah, I use a bit of both. I have some internal values(Fi), but I also try not to cause conflicts or dramas, and care about what others might think/do (Fe).

Which one do YOU think am I?
Why?


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## blackpants (May 3, 2017)

You obviously prefer Fe.

The key to Fe is: 

When someone is sad, you feel sad too.

Example with my interaction with an Fi user:

There's a time where I'm so conscious of what people thinks of me (Fe) 
Then, an Fi user said to me.. >it doesn't matter what they think of you if you know yourself more.

Fi users know themselves more, they usually don't give a fuck whatever people think of them unless it will benefit them. 

With Fe, they are much aware of people. Awareness of people is the key.


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## MissElle (Oct 1, 2017)

blackpants said:


> There's a time where I'm so conscious of what people thinks of me (Fe)
> Then, an Fi user said to me.. >it doesn't matter what they think of you if you know yourself more.


Interesting!


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## Birbsofafeather (May 18, 2017)

> ●I highly believe in equality. Not just in between sexes, but also between people in genetal.


You uh, might want to fix that. I read it as another word lol. Anyhow, I still assert that you use Fe a fair amount, but read this for yourself. Though Jung's descriptions of the functions may be a tad outdated in the eyes of some, they still illustrate the abstract aspects of the functions very well.

Fe

* *






> Feeling in the extraverted attitude is orientated by objective data, i.e. the object is the indispensable determinant of the kind of feeling. It agrees with objective values. If one has always known feeling as a subjective fact, the nature of extraverted feeling will not immediately be understood, since it has freed itself as fully as possible from the subjective factor, and has, instead, become wholly subordinated to the influence of the object. Even where it seems to show a certain independence of the quality of the concrete object, it is none the less under the spell of. traditional or generally valid standards of some sort. I may feel constrained, for instance, to use the predicate 'beautiful' or 'good', not because I find the object 'beautiful' or 'good' from my own subjective feeling, but because it is fitting and politic so to do; and fitting it certainly is, inasmuch as a contrary opinion would disturb the general feeling situation. A feeling-judgment such as this is in no way a simulation or a lie -- it is merely an act of accommodation. A picture, for instance, may be termed beautiful, because a picture that is hung in a drawing-room and bearing a well-known signature is generally assumed to be beautiful, or because the predicate 'ugly' might offend the family of the fortunate possessor, or because there is a benevolent intention on the part of the visitor to create a pleasant feeling-atmosphere, to which end everything must be felt as agreeable. Such feelings are governed by the standard of the objective determinants. As such they are genuine, and represent the total visible feeling-function.
> 
> In precisely the same way as extraverted thinking strives to rid itself of subjective influences, extraverted feeling has also to undergo a certain process of differentiation, before it is finally denuded of every subjective [p. 447] trimming. The valuations resulting from the act of feeling either correspond directly with objective values or at least chime in with certain traditional and generally known standards of value. This kind of feeling is very largely responsible for the fact that so many people flock to the theatre, to concerts, or to Church, and what is more, with correctly adjusted positive feelings. Fashions, too, owe their existence to it, and, what is far more valuable, the whole positive and wide-spread support of social, philanthropic, and such like cultural enterprises. In such matters, extraverted feeling proves itself a creative factor. Without this feeling, for instance, a beautiful and harmonious sociability would be unthinkable. So far extraverted feeling is just as beneficent and rationally effective as extraverted thinking. But this salutary effect is lost as soon as the object gains an exaggerated influence. For, when this happens, extraverted feeling draws the personality too much into the object, i.e. the object assimilates the person, whereupon the personal character of the feeling, which constitutes its principal charm, is lost. Feeling then becomes cold, material, untrustworthy. It betrays a secret aim, or at least arouses the suspicion of it in an impartial observer. No longer does it make that welcome and refreshing impression the invariable accompaniment of genuine feeling; instead, one scents a pose or affectation, although the egocentric motive may be entirely unconscious.
> 
> Such overstressed, extraverted feeling certainly fulfils æsthetic expectations, but no longer does it speak to the heart; it merely appeals to the senses, or -- worse still -- to the reason. Doubtless it can provide æsthetic padding for a situation, but there it stops, and beyond that its effect is nil. It has become sterile. Should this process go further, a strangely contradictory dissociation of feeling develops; every object is seized upon with feeling- [p. 448] valuations, and numerous relationships are made which are inherently and mutually incompatible. Since such aberrations would be quite impossible if a sufficiently emphasized subject were present, the last vestige of a real personal standpoint also becomes suppressed. The subject becomes so swallowed up in individual feeling processes that to the observer it seems as though there were no longer a subject of feeling but merely a feeling process. In such a condition feeling has entirely forfeited its original human warmth, it gives an impression of pose, inconstancy, unreliability, and in the worst cases appears definitely hysterical.





Fi

* *






> Introverted feeling is determined principally by the subjective factor. This means that the feeling-judgment differs quite as essentially from extraverted feeling as does the introversion of thinking from extraversion. It is unquestionably difficult to give an intellectual presentation of the introverted feeling process, or even an approximate [p. 490] description of it, although the peculiar character of this kind of feeling simply stands out as soon as one becomes aware of it at all. Since it is primarily controlled by subjective preconditions, and is only secondarily concerned with the object, this feeling appears much less upon the surface and is, as a rule, misunderstood. It is a feeling which apparently depreciates the object; hence it usually becomes noticeable in its negative manifestations. The existence of a positive feeling can be inferred only indirectly, as it were. Its aim is not so much to accommodate to the objective fact as to stand above it, since its whole unconscious effort is to give reality to the underlying images. It is, as it were, continually seeking an image which has no existence in reality, but of which it has had a sort of previous vision. From objects that can never fit in with its aim it seems to glide unheedingly away. It strives after an inner intensity, to which at the most, objects contribute only an accessory stimulus. The depths of this feeling can only be divined -- they can never be clearly comprehended. It makes men silent and difficult of access; with the sensitiveness of the mimosa, it shrinks from the brutality of the object, in order to expand into the depths of the subject. It puts forward negative feeling-judgments or assumes an air of profound indifference, as a measure of self-defence.
> 
> Primordial images are, of course, just as much idea as feeling. Thus, basic ideas such as God, freedom, immortality are just as much feeling-values as they are significant as ideas. Everything, therefore, that has been said of the introverted thinking refers equally to introverted feeling, only here everything is felt while there it was thought. But the fact that thoughts can generally be expressed more intelligibly than feelings demands a more than ordinary descriptive or artistic capacity before the real wealth of this feeling can be even approximately [p. 491] presented or communicated to the outer world. Whereas subjective thinking, on account of its unrelatedness, finds great difficulty in arousing an adequate understanding, the same, though in perhaps even higher degree, holds good for subjective feeling. In order to communicate with others it has to find an external form which is not only fitted to absorb the subjective feeling in a satisfying expression, but which must also convey it to one's fellowman in such a way that a parallel process takes place in him. Thanks to the relatively great internal (as well as external) similarity of the human being, this effect can actually be achieved, although a form acceptable to feeling is extremely difficult to find, so long as it is still mainly orientated by the fathomless store of primordial images. But, when it becomes falsified by an egocentric attitude, it at once grows unsympathetic, since then its major concern is still with the ego. Such a case never fails to create an impression of sentimental self-love, with its constant effort to arouse interest and even morbid self-admiration just as the subjectified consciousness of the introverted thinker, striving after an abstraction of abstractions, only attains a supreme intensity of a thought-process in itself quite empty, so the intensification of egocentric feeling only leads to a contentless passionateness, which merely feels itself. This is the mystical, ecstatic stage, which prepares the way over into the extraverted functions repressed by feeling, just as introverted thinking is pitted against a primitive feeling, to which objects attach themselves with magical force, so introverted feeling is counterbalanced by a primitive thinking, whose concretism and slavery to facts passes all bounds. Continually emancipating itself from the relation to the object, this feeling creates a freedom, both of action and of conscience, that is only answerable to the subject, and that may even renounce all traditional values. But so much the more [p. 492] does unconscious thinking fall a victim to the power of objective facts.


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## MissElle (Oct 1, 2017)

Any other ideas?


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## MissElle (Oct 1, 2017)

Please help...


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## Turi (May 9, 2017)

What does 'beauty' mean?


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## MissElle (Oct 1, 2017)

Turi said:


> What does 'beauty' mean?


Sorry I'm not sure I understand your question.
Please explain it a bit more.


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## jetser (Jan 6, 2016)

I'm back to my INFJ views.


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## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

Going out on a limb here just a bit by thinking XSFJ.

xSFJ so far is what I am getting. A lot of Fe is just bouncing off you, just did a quick re-read ISFJ it seems.

ISFJ


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## Turi (May 9, 2017)

MissElle said:


> Sorry I'm not sure I understand your question.
> Please explain it a bit more.


I just want you to describe what 'beauty' is to you.


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## jetser (Jan 6, 2016)

Turi said:


> I just want you to describe what 'beauty' is to you.


You couldn't have been more cryptic.


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## MissElle (Oct 1, 2017)

Turi said:


> I just want you to describe what 'beauty' is to you.


It depends.What kind of beauty do you mean?

I find buildings, big cities, architecture, and some kinds of natural sceneries beautiful.
Skyscrapers are beautiful, big city downtowns are amazing "to me".

Watching videos of people going sky diving, trying new foods and cuisines, looking at food pictures, pictures of space and planets, food magazines, some male/female celebrities, watching ballet dancing, rodents like rats and guinea pigs, christmas tree decoratins, looking at interior design pictures/magazines, some reality shows about food or big cities, buying myself new things, good aesthetics ...


To me, they're all beautiful...


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## Turi (May 9, 2017)

MissElle said:


> Watching videos of people going sky diving, trying new foods and cuisines, looking at food pictures, pictures of space and planets, food magazines, some male/female celebrities, watching ballet dancing, rodents like rats and guinea pigs, christmas tree decoratins, looking at interior design pictures/magazines, some reality shows about food or big cities, buying myself new things, good aesthetics


Why are these things beautiful, to you?


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## MissElle (Oct 1, 2017)

Turi said:


> Why are these things beautiful, to you?


Cause they make me happy (in different ways) ;

*Looking at buildings (the ones I find beautiful) is cool (to me).
Imagining a big city life full of beautiful buildings, an amazing downtown, and lots of things to do/try not only fascinates me, but also gives me motivation.

*Old magazines? There is something about 50s-90s that really attracts me. The fashion, the people, the aesthetics, food and culture, even buildings, cars, streets, music, ...
(Sometimes I wish I could live in those decades).

*Space & planets? I love astronomy. Also, they're beautiful....and mysterious.

*Buying myself new things? Cause this excites me and gives me motivation (to work harder).

*Food pictures? Cause I find it interesting. I love learning about cuisines and food/drinks of different countries. I can also cook or bake them and try them myself.

Though, these things would be even more beautiful, if dramas and interpersonal problems didn't exist.
If people were like "live and let live" !


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## Turi (May 9, 2017)

I would suggest preferences for IxFx and ISxP, from what you're detailed above - ergo, ISFP as a likely candidate.

My reasoning is the things you find beautiful are all concrete, real things - things you can buy, cook, eat, look at - it's all Sensing - you didn't provide an abstract descriptor of what beauty is, you connected it straight to the real world.

More than this, you link it directly to things you personally find beauty within - this point, I'm a little sketchy on, because the way I phrased the question might have prompted a more individualistic response - but, the idea was to find out whether you defined beauty on your own terms, or in accordance with society, communal or global terms.
Your response is entirely on your own terms, which is where the IxFx preference is, imo.

I think it could be summed up as, you define beauty as things (S) that you personally find beautiful (IxFx) - you also note that buying things motivates you to work harder - this is materialism - _stereotypically _an S trait.

You also suggest these things are beautiful to you, because they make you happy - typically, S types are about 'enjoyment' and seeking that kind of pleasure.

I'd consider/reconsider ISFP.


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## MissElle (Oct 1, 2017)

Thanks alot @Turi.

One more question (sorry) ;
Can ISFPs have some Fe qualities or seem Fe?

I ask because most people (like in this thread) type me as an Fe user.
And ISFP is an Fi dom.


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## Turi (May 9, 2017)

MissElle said:


> Thanks alot @Turi.
> 
> One more question (sorry) ;
> Can ISFPs have some Fe qualities or seem Fe?
> ...


The official MBTIonline website doesn't even separate the functions into the differing orientations.
It's just "F".


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## DOGSOUP (Jan 29, 2016)

MissElle said:


> One more question (sorry) ;
> Can ISFPs have some Fe qualities or seem Fe?
> 
> I ask because most people (like in this thread) type me as an Fe user.
> And ISFP is an Fi dom.


ISFP, going by the four letter preference -system most MBTI tests use, is not incompatible with being a Si/Fe type when looking at cognitive functions. Theoretically one would assume it to be more sensible for ISFP to be the Si (introverted sensation perceiving) dominant and ISFJ to be the Fi (introverted feeling judging) dominant but for some reason people insist on using the thing where the extroverted secondary function of the introvert determines whether they are a judger or a perceiver. I guess clearing that up would cause too much cognitive dissonance or something. Which is a shame considering how much confusion comes from this.


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## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

MissElle said:


> Thanks alot
> One more question (sorry) ;
> Can ISFPs have some Fe qualities or seem Fe?
> 
> ...


I haven't seen one thing that points to Fi and yet so much Fe. Even the way , which you did a lot, you describe yourself from others is classic ISFJ.

I don't have a clue how someone can say Fi Dom....not to mention the Si like comments you have made.


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## Turi (May 9, 2017)

MissElle said:


> Not yet.
> But isn't "living in the present time" and "not being able to manage time and go by the plan" sort of IXXP?


Living in the present indicative of a preference for Sensing.
With regards to not being able to manage time and go by the plan:



> *She told me that one of my problems is that while I do plan for things, but not always act on them or go by them.
> Though she said that I prefer structured environments more than fast changing ones!


This suggests your Mum believes you have a preference for structure and planning - whether you successfully follow through on this or not, doesn't matter - it's the preference that counts - and it appears your Mum believes you have a 'J' preference.



> *She also told me that in real life, I care about things related to building, function, productivity, power, engineering and business more than greater social needs (like art, sociology, philosophy, politics, etc).


This suggests a preferences for both Sensing and Thinking, over Intuition and Feeling.

My bet is you find it difficult to type yourself because your natural preferences go against the grain.


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## MissElle (Oct 1, 2017)

Turi said:


> My bet is you find it difficult to type yourself because your natural preferences go against the grain.


What do you mean?


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## Jewl (Feb 28, 2012)

@MissElle - for the record, I don't see where other people are seeing all the Fe.  

And I for sure don't see any Thinking actually, @Turi - I would expect a different focus. All MissElle has done on this thread is a lot of evaluation, a lot of stating what's important, what she likes (what's important to her). I see Feeling, and I am unconvinced as of yet it is Fe. I agree that our OP probably uses Sensation of some sort - that much is clear. 

That said I don't think we have a lot to go on here, because we've only seen pretty superficial things and lots of statements about what our OP wishes and values. That's why it's hard to type her. If I were to hazard a guess, it would be ISFP or ESFP. I am not getting Si-ish vibes at all from anything that she's said. Not even stereotypically so. 

@MissElle, it might help if you fill out one of the questionnaires. 

Also, I'm just letting you know I have a Jungian bias. So I tend to type based on functions. I usually start generally - guessing it's some combo of Feeling and Sensation for instance, and then narrow down from there.  Turi likes typing by dichotomy and not getting into the functions so much, which also has its strengths and weaknesses. I see some of the things he was noting - like we both think you use Sensing more than Intuition.

Also, just some information for you so that you might be able to trace my reasoning. 

You're familiar with the Perceiving functions (Intuition and Sensation) and Judging functions (Thinking and Feeling). Think of the perceiving functions as the ones that take in information, and the judging functions as the functions that sort out information. 

Both Thinking and Feeling sort out what we take in. Thinking according to Jung is the function that categorizes and defines stuff. Feeling tells us what something is worth (how good, how important, how beautiful it is) - basically, Feeling is the function that helps us sort stuff out by evaluating that stuff. And that can look a lot like someone who is more led by her heart than someone who likes sorting things based on the attributes it has, analyzing and stuff. 

I feel like you use Feeling you seem to do more of that sort of evaluating than noting something's attributes and sorting stuff out based on categories. That said, I don't know if it's dominant for you since you started out by highlighting what you thought would be relevant information to help us sort out whether you use Fe or Fi.  And ultimately you know yourself better than I do, so if that doesn't resonate with you, go with your gut!

So a questionnaire would be useful, at least for me. Maybe the other users feel confident using just what information you've posted, but for me, the more the better.

DOUBLE EDIT: Just realized you already filled out a questionnaire. http://personalitycafe.com/whats-my...me-find-my-mbti-type-turis-questionnaire.html 

Definitively sticking to ISFP/ESFP. And maybe ESTP if I'm _totally_ off on that T/F axis. Honestly, there's so much Pe (Extroverted Perceiving) in that questionnaire... So much attention to all the sights, sounds, colours, and experiences the world has to hold. And it's _very_ Se, like I said earlier, I think you prefer Sensation over Intuition any day of the week.  That much is so obvious... So obvious that it's more obvious than where you are on the F/T side of things. But I still think you prefer Feeling in the end, still seeing more of that evaluative focus.

I am going to say ESFP.


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## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

Seeking others to express yourself and very very little expressing how you feel or think. Should be enough indicator for someone to notice a trend of Fe. Even Extroverted Aux Fi Types would be expressing how they feel or think from there point of view , not constantly seeking others to do so.
Just look at the Fi Types responding just one post is more informing than you have in this entire thread. Was even a argument started I would suspect a Fi Type to tell us to buzz off...in not such a polite way.
So many examples to point out...
Either way I am out of this one. I don't feel like pushing my Tert Ti and inducing my Ni-Fe like I use to in helping assist people to Type. Especially when so many people throwing out this and that Type, you started out being confused and this route will just keep confusing you. Remember this is a online forum open to all....I am sure you know where I am going with that.

I would suggest joining in discussions going over the topics, this will help you understand all this better so you can become less confused. Of course you got to watch out for others that is confused but post as if they are not. There is a lot of people around that is knowledgeable. 
Just a tip when people go well i have this and that book doesn't mean they understand said book or subject. For example I have a book to learn Mandarin this doesn't mean I can speak or understand Mandarin.
Pretty much take some stuff with a grain of salt.

I hope you well upon this journey


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## MissElle (Oct 1, 2017)

I was sort of convinced by @Jewl post that I might be ISFP or ESFP.

Now, I also have doubts about being Fe due to @myjazz last post.
And specially this part ;



myjazz said:


> Seeking others to express yourself and very very little expressing how you feel or think. Should be enough indicator for someone to notice a trend of Fe. Even Extroverted Aux Fi Types would be expressing how they feel or think from there point of view , not constantly seeking others to do so.
> Just look at the Fi Types responding just one post is more informing than you have in this entire thread. Was even a argument started I would suspect a Fi Type to tell us to buzz off...in not such a polite way


I think he's kind of right about me, not knowing or expressing myself so well. Idk how to say this, but I don't really know myself, and I get to know myself throuh others.
It could be this way maybe because I think that how I believe I am is not important, and how others think I am is correct.

As an example ;
I might believe I'm a selfless person, 
Then someone tells me that I'm a selfish person.
And then I start knowing myself as a selfish person.


Based on that, am I Fe?
Or still Fi?


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## MissElle (Oct 1, 2017)

Am I Fe or Fi now?

Are there any questions you can ask me that would help?


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## Jewl (Feb 28, 2012)

MissElle said:


> Am I Fe or Fi now?
> 
> Are there any questions you can ask me that would help?


I said ESFP or ISFP. Both use Fi. I haven't seen a single thing that would suggest Fe. Also, it helps people in the thread know to answer you if you mention them, like me saying @MissElle  Otherwise unless we look for this specific thread we don't know you've asked anything at all.


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## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

MissElle said:


> I think he's kind of right about me, not knowing or expressing myself so well. Idk how to say this, but I don't really know myself, and I get to know myself throuh others.
> It could be this way maybe because I think that how I believe I am is not important, and how others think I am is correct.


What you mentioned is typical of Fe Dom/Aux users. What I underlined is a trademark of a Fe Type


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## cuddle bun (Jun 2, 2017)

This helped me disambiguate ....

Fe unconsciously has very expressive body language and facial expressions. If someone thinks an Fe user is being insincere, it might be because their body language and facial expressions seem too exaggerated. 

Fi has much more subtle body language and facial expressions. If someone thinks an Fi user is being insincere, it might be because their body language and facial expressions seem too poker-faced compared to the intense emotions that they might try to describe with words. 

There are other differences too but sometimes other Fi/Fe explanations can seem muddy and ambiguous to me - because Fi is paired with Te; Ti is paired with Fe; both pairs value _something_ in the group over the individual. So it can get muddy trying to figure out whether we're talking about Fe trying to tune in to other people's emotions, or Te trying to tune in to other people's collected facts. They're both a hive mentality in their own way. The body language thing is what really helped me disambiguate for myself.


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