# sp-last rants



## theredpanda (Jan 18, 2014)

Well, as a 7w6 sx/so/sp- I always find myself in interesting situations. Mainly because I will do nearly anything. I'm a risk-taker, and I'm pretty crazy, and I tend to jump into things and be impulsive. Safety is not my greatest concern- to say the least...


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## Sonny (Oct 14, 2008)

holyrockthrower said:


> In which case, I'm going back to being sp/soc. I first thought I was sx-last, and if being sp-last means I can't do anything on my own, damned if I'm not still sp-first.


If it helps keep you confused, I related strongly to what you wrote :wink:

This post brought to you by a So/Sx who used to mistype as a Sp dom.


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## RepairmanMan Man (Jan 21, 2012)

enneathusiast said:


> I'm still not quite sure what the sp-last experience is. I wish we could get more feedback from so/sx and sx/so individuals on the forum. I wonder what their gripes are about the sp instinct and why it's not appealing.


Well, if you do wanna take me as an example of sp-last, it's more the gripes about being tied down by "stuff"--a job, and IRA account, a house, all that stuff to look after. I get annoyed with maintaining everything materially, and I tend to mock people whose goal in life is a house in the suburbs.

I can't imagine not being able to go places alone or not having my own little territory, though, so I guess it depends on how we define the instincts.



Sonny said:


> If it helps keep you confused, I related strongly to what you wrote :wink:
> 
> This post brought to you by a So/Sx who used to mistype as a Sp dom.


Well, I see no serious reason to move off my current stacking, but there's a lot of conflicting information out there about the instincts. I THINK sp is about maintaining a foundation in life and looking to the daily upkeep of things, whatever that means for someone of a given core type. But, these ideas can, of course, be modified.


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## Coburn (Sep 3, 2010)

holyrockthrower said:


> Well, if you do wanna take me as an example of sp-last, it's more the gripes about being tied down by "stuff"--a job, and IRA account, a house, all that stuff to look after. I get annoyed with maintaining everything materially, and I tend to mock people whose goal in life is a house in the suburbs.
> 
> I can't imagine not being able to go places alone or not having my own little territory, though, so I guess it depends on how we define the instincts.
> 
> ...


Stuff, and a person's interest in it, is not indicative of sp-dom stacking. Or sp-secondary stacking, to my knowledge.


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## Pelopra (May 21, 2013)

Marlowe said:


> Stuff, and a person's interest in it, is not indicative of sp-dom stacking. Or sp-secondary stacking, to my knowledge.


what would you say is indicative of a stacking?


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## RepairmanMan Man (Jan 21, 2012)

Marlowe said:


> Stuff, and a person's interest in it, is not indicative of sp-dom stacking. Or sp-secondary stacking, to my knowledge.


I second Pelopra:


Pelopra said:


> what would you say is indicative of a stacking?


What, in general, would you say is indicative of sp-first?


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## Coburn (Sep 3, 2010)

holyrockthrower said:


> I second Pelopra:
> 
> What, in general, would you say is indicative of sp-first?


The flow of energy in interpersonal relationships.

Sp instinct is inward-oriented; so and sx aren't. 

I'd explain in more detail, but the words are failing me at the moment. I'll think over how to convey what I mean and get back to you. The both of you.


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## enneathusiast (Dec 15, 2012)

Marlowe said:


> The flow of energy in interpersonal relationships.
> 
> Sp instinct is inward-oriented; so and sx aren't.
> 
> I'd explain in more detail, but the words are failing me at the moment. I'll think over how to convey what I mean and get back to you. The both of you.


One label I've been using to describe sp in the threads is self-contained. Perhaps Marlowe can tweak that where it needs it.

So in trying to understand sp-last, all I can guess at is this lack of self-containment. Most answers, if not all, don't address this core focus of sp. Sp is not simply about material things. I know sp-firsts that are big on getting rid of all that stuff - just throwing away all the clutter even if it has some monetary value.


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## chimeric (Oct 15, 2011)

enneathusiast said:


> When I look at sp-last in this sense I see it in [...] students who just could not go off by themselves and work alone - it seems they had to bounce their thoughts off other people all the time as if they had to say it out loud in order to think it through.


You're describing Ne-doms here, I believe, rather than an instinct variant.


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## enneathusiast (Dec 15, 2012)

chimeric said:


> You're describing Ne-doms here, I believe, rather than an instinct variant.


Perhaps it says Ne-dom to you. I don't spend much time with the Jungian variations so I really don't know.

But, I did post what seems to violate my sp senses, in that the individual has no respect for the personal space of others even after being repeatedly told to work on his own and he also seemed to have difficulty with self-containment/self-boundaries. This is the closest thing I could find to sp-last that had any resonance with me.


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## Chesire Tower (Jan 19, 2013)

enneathusiast said:


> Perhaps it says Ne-dom to you. I don't spend much time with the Jungian variations so I really don't know.
> 
> But, I did post what seems to violate my sp senses, in that the individual has no respect for the personal space of others even after being repeatedly told to work on his own and he also seemed to have difficulty with self-containment/self-boundaries. This is the closest thing I could find to sp-last that had any resonance with me.


This could sound like your typical introvert/extrovert style conflict.


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## enneathusiast (Dec 15, 2012)

Myoho Traveller said:


> This could sound like your typical introvert/extrovert style conflict.


The example I'm thinking of isn't really a conflict. It's the student's difficulty in being self-contained, to work alone. The problem with using I/E for this is that I/E has varied interpretations (e.g., popular vs. psychological). I/E simply isn't precise enough to be useful for me in this case - besides, I think a lot of people would have a problem with using I/E with the instincts.


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## Chesire Tower (Jan 19, 2013)

enneathusiast said:


> The example I'm thinking of isn't really a conflict. It's the student's difficulty in being self-contained, to work alone. The problem with using I/E for this is that I/E has varied interpretations (e.g., popular vs. psychological). I/E simply isn't precise enough to be useful for me in this case - besides, I think a lot of people would have a problem with using I/E with the instincts.





enneathusiast said:


> it seems they had to bounce their thoughts off other people all the time *as if they had to say it out loud in order to think it through.
> 
> *


That sounds like typical extroverted thinking=out loud. Introverts of any instinctual variants wouldn't need to do that.


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## enneathusiast (Dec 15, 2012)

Myoho Traveller said:


> That sounds like typical extroverted thinking=out loud. Introverts of any instinctual variants wouldn't need to do that.


Problem is I don't think generalizing it to say that sp-last are extraverts would work for everyone. It has to be narrowed down to something more specific in order for it to match the experience of everyone who's sp-last. 

I guess I could go searching through the different facets of extraversion to see if there's something there that would work. I may try that.


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## Sonny (Oct 14, 2008)

As a Ne dom - Extrovert - Sp laster I'm with @chimeric, the need to bounce ideas off others is a Ne thing, weather or not that is done in an invasive way or to an especially interested pet is down to the individual, it's not about extroversion or Sp last as despite being a Ne dom and needing to bounce things externally (my cat enjoys the interaction) I am self-contained, as a 9 I am very aware of boundaries and withdraw before getting close to crossing them.

@enneathusiast, the issue you have with looking for things that cover Sp last exclusively (or any instinct last for that matter) is the dominant instinct out of balance can often appear similar to how it could be as the blindspot so the key thing, above all else, is not the behavioural aspects but the presence of a fixation. Even if a So dom is highly asocial, unlike a So laster it would be something they are aware of and have a focus on, the So laster would just not care.


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## enneathusiast (Dec 15, 2012)

Sonny said:


> Even if a So dom is highly asocial, unlike a So laster it would be something they are aware of and have a focus on, the So laster would just not care.


OK, I'll try asking it that way then. What is it that someone so-last (so/sx or sx/so) doesn't care about that sp-firsts care about too much?


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## Sonny (Oct 14, 2008)

enneathusiast said:


> OK, I'll try asking it that way then. What is it that someone so-last (so/sx or sx/so) doesn't care about that sp-firsts care about too much?


I'm going to swipe stuff from Cosmic Orgasm. I don't claim to have a great handle on Sp first simply because it is my blind spot, I don't have it so I don't care, well either that or there are many mistyped Sp doms around here who erroneously object when someone links practical needs to being a Sp dom, dunno, what I do know is the following:



Cosmic Orgasm said:


> *1a) SP dominant or secondary* - survival, comfort, habits, supplies. You will take care of your basic needs and needs of those who are close to you. These people set up little homes or nests for themselves wherever they go. It can becomes neurotic when fear and habit distort the instinct (e.g. eating disorders, hoarding). One may experience “issues” that drain energy and cause one to lose Presence. Sp firsts are the grounded version of their type, while sp-seconds may have similar concerns but in lighter, more exploratory form.
> 
> _*More on SP dominance in health and unhealth *_(from Oceanmoonshine's)​
> Those individuals who are dominated by the instinct for self-preservation often have a grounded or practical quality; they frequently develop a high degree of self-sufficiency, discipline and maturity. Many self-pres subtypes devote themselves to programs for self-improvement and, of all the subtypes are probably the most “focused.” All of these qualities can clearly be beneficial, but when the personality is unbalanced, a dominant self-preservational instinct can manifest in an obsessive concern with questions of health, such as a focus on diet or exercise which might be punitive or otherwise excessive. Some self-pres types, when unbalanced, worry too much about health, mortality, finances or security. In fact, as life is ephemeral and safety an illusion, worry in general, of whatever sort, is a frequent manifestation of a dominant instinct for self-preservation.


Are things I pay no attention to, I can go through periods where I'll make a concerned effort to focus on things like security, food, health etc, however it's more like a flash in the pan project or a reaction to a problem, I cannot stick at it because I have no actual interest in it except for the impact it may have in another area, I drop these things quickly and easily for excitement, entertainment, interaction, connections. It's not a focus for me, a priority, even when it would be in my best interests to focus on.



Cosmic Orgasm said:


> *b) SP blind spot* - lack of solid foundation, lack in comfort and coziness, lack in attention to health and upkeep, since these people are rarely concerned about sp matters. There is fear is of being an "eternal child" who won’t take care of ones’ self and expectation of failure in dealing with sp instinct. They tend to look down on sp-domain, express certain cynicism towards it e.g. state that sp-firsts are too fearful and “don’t know how to really live".
> 
> _*More on SP blind spot*_​
> When the instinct for self-preservation is last in the instinctual stacking, the individual will often be somewhat ungrounded or seemingly “immature.” Such individuals often have a hard time focusing on issues such as financial security or the commitment to the development of practical skills. Sometimes, issues of health are ignored. In the more extroverted types, individuals who are self-pres last, often find it difficult to develop “inwardness.”


I cannot remove the Ne dom from my type and experience which is not satisfied with lack of change, nor my disintegration point of 6 which can be hyper-aware of security when stressed, however I will say that comfort and 'sameness' bore me, while I do go into 'holding patterns' of behaviour occasionally it's not maintainable and they never remain static for long, I must always keep things changing. I am logical and have common sense however I'm not practical, nor do I want to be, I prefer fantastical and idealistic to grounded despite being a 9 which is a rather grounded type. I was always considered more adult than my age growing up however I never want to be that image of adult responsibility, to me it's bland, boring and sad, I'd rather the Peter Pan-esque adventure. 

People who planned on the mortgage by their mid 20s, the new car changing every few years so it doesn't loose too much value, the collage plan for their children, the track to financial independence before retirement age, the tax refund worked out precisely to give the greatest return, the income insurance in case they have an accident etc... I do not get those people, while I _can_ admire the preparation and forward planning it would take, it also bores the shit out of me and from my perspective as a Sp last: that is not living.

Some of the things mentioned in Sp last are points of shame for me, I am terrible with money because I pay no attention to it, I literally put my savings in someone else's bank account so I cannot get to them or I would have none, but it also doesn't bother me in a way, because I place little/no value on money except for the fun it can bring me. If I have it, cool, if I don't, meh, it's only when I need the money for something important that it is of concern but only for the specific thing it can pay for. With these base things of practical concern, I am able to be highly irresponsible, but put me in a group and I can work it like a pro and no one would look at me and think I was immature but look at the patterns of how I cater to these kinds of needs and a Sp dom would likely be horrified. 



Cosmic Orgasm said:


> *3a) SO dominant or secondary* - Focus on finding one's place in the world, neglect of other things in favor of group contributions (workaholic), need to be plugged into something, danger of being overly accommodating. This can be a narcissistic need satisfied through social manipulation. Focus is on politics, jockeying for positions and roles. You may not want to join but feel aware of the price, so question arises: do I participate or not? So-firsts want to know what’s going on with other people as a way to uncover the hierarchy - talk is currency, discourse is welcomed. Exploring - Are we on the same team? Who can I trust? Healthy expression—how can this help everyone? Unhealthy expression—what’s in it for me? Is this worth my while?
> 
> 
> _*More on SO dominance in health and unhealth*_​
> On the high side, social subtypes are the most likely to sacrifice their narrow interests in service of that which is larger than themselves. They extend themselves toward others and often have a sort of generosity with their time and energy. They are aware of group dynamics and underlying emotional currents. On the down side however, social subtypes are the most prone to feelings of social shame; as they are the most acutely aware of the opinions of others, they suffer the most when they feel a sense of social rejection. Social subtypes can therefore suffer from self-consciousness. In less balanced personalities, this can lead to a need to conform to the standards of the group in order to achieve acceptance. Social subtypes can sometimes fail to focus on the needs of the self as they are searching for their identity in terms of the larger whole.


I am a team player to my detriment, I work with a Sp dom who can infuriate me no end, while I will drop everything for the 'good of the team' I see her actions as exceptionally selfish as she will not, her focus is on her own needs first, she does her work first and if she has time after that, will help, while I put myself out and can allow my own work to suffer so that others can have pressure alleviated. This is inherent to me, it is very hard for me to stop that instinctive reaction to want to help the 'group' whenever/where ever that may be.

I am also very aware of social rejection as the summary says, this can often be the hindrance to me not joining in the first place, if I fear social rejection then defending myself against that pain by not joining in the first place can be a choice I take which is how a So dom can easily be asocial. I see social dynamics like people read street signs, they are obvious and clear, I also see where people are rejected and can be hyper-aware of if I am not wanted or accepted in a group.



Cosmic Orgasm said:


> *b) SO blind spot* - finds it hard to concern self with another’s agenda, dismissive. They may feel that connecting socially will cost them something and consider interactions to be draining. Would rather act as a lone force, lone wolves, I'm-on-my-own attitude, feeling that they don't need others and others don't need them. Fear of being emotionally crippled, being unable to connect with many people, self-conscious of being socially ungracious. It’s hard to take in the gifts and generosity of others. Projected fear - if I ignore others, they will ignore me. There’s an expectation of humiliation. A desire not to impose self on people in fear of not being wanted or being klutzy.
> 
> _*More on SO blind spot*_​
> When the social instinct is least developed, the individual is going to find it difficult to see why it is important to form social connections or to cultivate multiple relationships. This, in turn, can lead to a certain amount of social isolation. And, as we all must find a niche in the larger whole, those whose social instinct is least developed, can find it difficult to negotiate the needs of the social realm which make this possible. Those whose social instinct is last in the instinctual stacking, find interdependence difficult and dependence on others barely tolerable. But all human beings are interdependent, and sometimes, dependent - when they are, for instance, young, weak, sick, old or dying. Those whose social instinct remains undeveloped are trying to attain a type of independence and self-sufficiency which is not possible for human beings. This “false independence” almost certainly leads to unnecessary suffering and impoverishment of experience.


This basically summaries everything that can infuriate me about So lasters when in a team with them; lack of interest in others concerns, lack of noticing the group concerns as well, unlike the So dom who is aware of social norms, the So last even if they are aware is more likely to transgress them. The self interest of a Sp dom can be more than just in the interest of the individual, it can also be at the expense of the group which is where the So dom v So last are different even if the So dom is unbalanced.


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## enneathusiast (Dec 15, 2012)

Sonny said:


> I am a team player to my detriment, I work with a Sp dom who can infuriate me no end, while I will drop everything for the 'good of the team' I see her actions as exceptionally selfish as she will not, her focus is on her own needs first, she does her work first and if she has time after that, will help, while I put myself out and can allow my own work to suffer so that others can have pressure alleviated. This is inherent to me, it is very hard for me to stop that instinctive reaction to want to help the 'group' whenever/where ever that may be.


This is the sort of response I was asking for in this thread and another (at least for the sp-last complaints about sp).

In my _What is sp-last?_ thread I posted this:



> I'm browsing through the International Personality Item Pool (IPIP) to try and find some things that might be close to what sp-last experiences in regard to the sp instinct.
> 
> Ideas I had while looking through the NEO facets:
> 
> ...


Sounds like you hit a lot of those in posting what you don't like about sp.


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## Aha (Mar 6, 2014)

So...A rant


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## Pelopra (May 21, 2013)

Aha said:


> So...A rant


very insightful. =)
some questions:

-what annoys you about sp first?
-what do you envy about sp first?
-what do you just not understand about sp first?
-what annoys you about being sp last?
-what is great about being sp last?


edit: um, that first line was meant jokingly, not passive-aggressively. clarifying because internet.


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## Aha (Mar 6, 2014)

Pelopra said:


> very insightful. =)
> some questions:


*-what annoys you about sp first?
*Orientation on self. On material things - why don't they understand that those things are fleeting, temporarily and unimportant?
*-what do you envy about sp first?
*I do not experience envy. But I admire their workaholism, efficiency to get things they want. 
*-what do you just not understand about sp first?
*What I answered for the first question. I think they need more idealism and romanticism, etc 
*-what annoys you about being sp last?
*That I am too much in the clouds/in sports, doing often things that do not move me closer to some realistic goals. Although I write sci-fi - I need to be unrealistic.
*-what is great about being sp last?*
Super extroverted power  Being awesome, energetic, fun, outgoing, imaginative, romantic, etc. 



Pelopra said:


> edit: um, that first line was meant jokingly, not passive-aggressively. clarifying because internet.


I haven't noticed any aggression whatsoever :happy:


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## Pelopra (May 21, 2013)

Aha said:


> *-what annoys you about sp first?
> *Orientation on self. On material things - why don't they understand that those things are fleeting, temporarily and unimportant?


Hmm. This probably-SP-first says:
there is a real joy in a warm cup of coffee in a tidy, sun-filled kitchen on a quiet morning. i like the small moments of life.

and I really enjoy "ownership". sure, it's not coming with me when i die, but frankly neither is anything else. why is owning a house more temporary than having a friendship or an intense experience? (add in a decent insurance policy and it's reasonably permanent as these things are measured and within one lifetime. it doesn't fade with time like the experience, it can't drift away like the friendship.) 
i enjoy all three. i value them in different ways and on different scales, but they all have value...



> I haven't noticed any aggression whatsoever :happy:


=)


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## BroNerd (Nov 27, 2010)

I'm a so/sx but have a fiercely independent streak. I hate depending on others for things.
I like material goods too, but on the basis that possessing such things could elevate my social status. 
In the end, it's having the high social status and being desirable which are important to me.
This might be more of an iNtuitive thing, but I lack a natural awareness of my environment at times. I tend to be absent-minded in that regard. 
I know a sp-first type can have his or her day ruined because a room is too hot or too cold. Me. I barely notice such things. I'm so wrapped up in my ideas and goals that I just kind of block that sort of stuff out.


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## Ollyx2OxenFree (Feb 2, 2012)

Pelopra said:


> very insightful. =)
> some questions:
> 
> -what annoys you about sp first?


Focus on self, comfort and materialism. Can be killjoys, worry too much, boring and dry.


> -what do you envy about sp first?


Above all, their independence (which I really want for myself). I guess their practical knowledge although I sometimes find my lack of it endearing but it causes a lot of embarrassment and insecurity. 


> -what do you just not understand about sp first?


I don't really misunderstand them too much, as I have knowledge of our differences but mainly their worrying nature. I guess how they focus on the boring aspects of life or how their drive to live is just for self-survival whereas I sometimes think surviving for its own sake is pointless if you're not living and experiencing life.


> -what annoys you about being sp last?


Dependency on others, feeling helpless with practical aspects of life, laziness and procrastination of taking care of practical aspects of life as they are important especially when it comes to doing the things required to achieving my big dreams. 


> -what is great about being sp last?


Being fun-loving, charming, passionate, idealistic, exciting, intense, romantic, assertive, unconstrained, sociable, spontaneous, funny, adventuresome and having a lust for life.


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## BroNerd (Nov 27, 2010)

BroNerd said:


> I'm a so/sx but have a fiercely independent streak. I hate depending on others for things.
> I like material goods too, but on the basis that possessing such things could elevate my social status.
> In the end, it's having the high social status and being desirable which are important to me.
> This might be more of an iNtuitive thing, but I lack a natural awareness of my environment at times. I tend to be absent-minded in that regard.
> I know a sp-first type can have his or her day ruined because a room is too hot or too cold. Me. I barely notice such things. I'm so wrapped up in my ideas and goals that I just kind of block that sort of stuff out.


Lol, disregard what I said above. I'm actually a sp/sx.
The stuff I am describing is probably more so Ne than anything else.


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## slothpop (Mar 19, 2014)

I am SO/SX. My dad is SP/SO. We are both 9s, though I am INFP and he is INTJ.

I like SP types because they have a certain integrity about them. They take care of my blind spot, or at least remind me to care for it in myself. In my dad, there's nothing about it that annoys me. However, if it were a romantic relationship, I might be annoyed at the lack of intensity and the self-focus.

Being SP-last can be annoying because I feel childlike. A lot of adult matters fall into the SP bucket -- finances, long-term planning, practicality and independence. I could never be considered 'resourceful'.

However, I love being SO/SX and wouldn't want to be anything else! I love focusing on others and engaging people where need be. I feel confident in my interpersonal abilities and romantic relationships, because I can meet any type in the middle. I know SO/SX gets a bad rap for being superficial, but as an INFP, I feel that I am not superficial and am rather authentic. I think that many people sense this, too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Flaming Bassoon (Feb 15, 2013)

I know I should really care about my body, but my mind is a disparate entity from the rest of it, and that's what's really important to me. Even when I do physical things I don't really _feel _it.


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## OrangeAppled (Jun 26, 2009)

I feel like despite some great posts from people in here about what SP is NOT, contrary to popular belief, those misconceptions continue. I'm reading some posts at the end of this thread & wondering if they bothered to read any other posts in here...


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## Arya (Oct 17, 2012)

enneathusiast said:


> Perhaps it says Ne-dom to you. I don't spend much time with the Jungian variations so I really don't know.
> 
> But, I did post what seems to violate my sp senses, in that the individual has no respect for the personal space of others even after being repeatedly told to work on his own and he also seemed to have difficulty with self-containment/self-boundaries. This is the closest thing I could find to sp-last that had any resonance with me.


I'm SP last. I have no boundaries. Basically none. I will tell almost anybody anything about me if they ask etc. I pissed of one of my SP dom friends for this reason. I tend to probe people. I want to get everything out of them. This apparently does not go over well with SP doms. He complained that I was obsessive, which I guess I can be.... My SP dom sister had to sit there and explain to me how in the world I was being annoying by probing people like that and not giving them space. To me it just seems natural. I will happily open up and spill almost anything so I make the retarded assumption that others should be the same.... I hate being SP last. I just don't think like that. Now I constantly have to be careful I'm not being pushy. But I think there is more to SP than that. Like he is really careful about his physical safety-making sure he has everything he needs, gets sleep etc., whereas I struggle to care about those things. My SP dom sister is exactly like him. An example would be, my sister and I are going somewhere. We don't have time to eat before we go. I'm just like who cares, let's just go, and she has a meltdown over it, because she must eat. I'll just go without eating and deal with it later if I have to. She complains constantly about me being pushy and probing her too much too. I wouldn't say SP doms are materialistic though. But they do seem much more careful about things like getting enough sleep, getting enough space, not being hungry or uncomfortable etc. I swear that SP doms hit the only button I have though. I really really can't take it when someone shuts down on me, won't communicate anything and just shuts me out. It makes me feel extremely angry. Even realizing what's going on, it's still like this really aggravating issue that's just there that I can do nothing about. And it just stays on my mind and won't go away. I've wanted to smash things after SP doms have done that to me. I'm usually the sort of person who doesn't get angered by anything. People can say anything to me and it won't bother me, but if you clam up, I'll explode.


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## Brian1 (May 7, 2011)

What do we mean by SP last rants, is someone going to die? And if they're Catholic, would after the SP last rants, are they going to receive the last rites?

Someone mentioned they don't like the materialism of SPs. They're probably looking at it from a spiritual point of view, spiritual over the material. That's their projection, my materialism, they're a spiritualism behind it. Life is crap, make it worthwhile to live in. I'm thinking of resurrecting a giant monument in the form of Charles Bukowski, its going to be made of beer cans, and long neck bottles of beer. Going to place it on the grounds of a church. That's just to spite them, nothing more. Live life to the fullest, and enjoy the ride,because others have come back from the dead to say, it's just a ride, make something useful out of it. Apologizes to Bill Hicks. Define spiritual? Define Materialism?


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## pandamonium (Oct 21, 2013)

sp-first neurotic fussiness bothers me. also sp + sx when they disregard the needs of others, and see everything in terms that I think of as... sort of mercenary. also so-cynicism bothers me (projecting things onto the social realm which are not really what the social realm is.) but all of this seems like unbalanced instincts, and not a problem w/ sp itself (? if sp in a "pure" form exists.)

I also hate when sp's say things like "I am not wealthy" "I can't afford x and x" and they have way more money than me in the bank. I know this is not what sp is "about" but it's a symptom I've definitely noticed. It seems unnecessary to me, like they could just as easily say "I would like to have this... but not yet" lol. Seems like a form of entitlement, but maybe they work much harder than me.

I really admire...

-the independence
-the understanding of personal boundaries
-the ability to keep private things private
-the focus on their own tasks/ projects
-the ability to *not feel compelled* to give someone else their time/energy/personal information out of a sort of good will... it's been healing to be able to claim that space for myself and realize that others will not judge me for it.

In fact I have been trying very hard to develop my own sp of late.


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## Blazkovitz (Mar 16, 2014)

My parents were sp-first; I am sp-last. The main thing I remember from home is how the general atmosphere was serious and down-to-earth. Going outside and meeting other people always surprised me with new ways to have fun.


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## Splash Shin (Apr 7, 2011)

pandamonium said:


> I also hate when sp's say things like "I am not wealthy" "I can't afford x and x" and they have way more money than me in the bank. I know this is not what sp is "about" but it's a symptom I've definitely noticed. It seems unnecessary to me, like they could just as easily say "I would like to have this... but not yet" lol. Seems like a form of entitlement, but maybe they work much harder than me.


remind me a lot of my sx/so friend.

I think I can clear that one up.
The "i cant afford" thing is normally just us planning ahead and making big calculations. Or even trying to have breathing space financially. A nice financial cushion is just as important as anything else for an SP first. SPs tend to live way within their means if they can.


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## pandamonium (Oct 21, 2013)

Splash Shin said:


> remind me a lot of my sx/so friend.
> 
> I think I can clear that one up.
> The "i cant afford" thing is normally just us planning ahead and making big calculations. Or even trying to have breathing space financially. A nice financial cushion is just as important as anything else for an SP first. SPs tend to live way within their means if they can.


Thanks for the clarification. It struck me as weird b/c I suffer from financial concerns as well, however I feel bad verbalizing them when I feel that other people's might be objectively worse, etc.


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## series0 (Feb 18, 2013)

As an sp-last it anger the living hell out of me that I am expected and left to make it on my own in a world where most good stuff is already taken and there are laws in the way and mores I am supposed to follow.

If you want laws and mores and such it has to be fair to all. That means you cannot start with or acquire more than anyone else. Otherwise I get to go out in the woods, build my cabin, live of the land and kill anyone that tries to stop me (the sp way).

But we are past the cave man days. Every man for himself is gone. Stop making everyone earn a living by some stupid ancient notion of what that is.

Everyone is worthy and has their unique blend of offerings to the whole. Just accept that they will offer that and provide for everyone equally systematically. Stop catering to greed and denying people their worth.


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