# My "creepy" guy story.



## Kingdom Crusader (Jan 4, 2012)

Dragunov said:


> That's classed as sexual harassment?


Yes, completely inappropriate in the work place.



thelostxin said:


> That's good you have evidence. The problem with all my stalkers is that I have no evidence of them ever assaulting me because I fought them off before they truly harmed me. :/


Unfortunately I couldn't say and do things that I could get away with out on the street, or else I would have. 

It's pretty sad that I was specifically targeted by race and sex at work. So I had to put up with sexual harassment AND racial discrimination. 

I don't have a problem with anyone having a preference for someone like me, but he made it pretty clear to me that he thought Asian women were prey...


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## Mendi the ISFJ (Jul 28, 2011)

thelostxin said:


> Speak of the devil he just called my phone ten seconds ago. I didn't answer, then either. So today twice he tried to contact me, ugh! I wish he was smart enough to pick up social cues. I think he knows he's just being a douche.


change your phone number or block his calls If you arent willing to be honest and direct about it. You think he knows, but he obviously doesnt. If he shows up tell him "i dont want to see you or hear from you again."


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## Mendi the ISFJ (Jul 28, 2011)

xisnotx said:


> women...i don't even know how to react to you all.
> 
> here's the thing, i know from experience that some women will think of me as creepy, and that some women won't. i'll be doing the exact same thing...acting in the exact same way...and to one woman it'll come off as creepy, but to the next...well, it got me laid.
> 
> ...


it all depends on attractiveness, if your hot its much less likely that anything you do will be creepy. If you are wildly unattractive then just about anything you do is going to creep someone out.


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## theflame (Apr 12, 2014)

Mendi the ISFJ said:


> change your phone number or block his calls If you arent willing to be honest and direct about it. You think he knows, but he obviously doesnt. If he shows up tell him "i dont want to see you or hear from you again."


I have two numbers because I don't have text on my actual cell but I use a free text service. I think I'll block him on the text and if he tries to call the text number and it says this caller cannot receive messages, I hope he will take a hint then.


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## Children Of The Bad Revolution (Oct 8, 2013)

Dragunov said:


> That's classed as sexual harassment?


How's it not.


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## Dragunov (Oct 2, 2013)

isingthebodyelectric said:


> How's it not.


My mistake, thought harassment was physical, not showing people pictures of naked woman and sexual gestures.


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## Children Of The Bad Revolution (Oct 8, 2013)

Dragunov said:


> My mistake, thought harassment was physical, not showing people pictures of naked woman and sexual gestures.


Look up the definition of Harrasment.


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## MindBomb (Jul 7, 2010)

Jennywocky said:


> Finally I got really sick of it and just basically dumped all that on the table (*"There is no us. we will never be together, never. We never were. We are not now. We never will be. Even if you were the last person in the city I could be with, I would not because I am not interested! There's nothing else to say. Get over it."*) I even had to yell as I said it, which I hate doing; I was pissed and sick of it.
> 
> It might not work for everyone, depending on situation; but I think sometimes you have to be that *forward, direct, and brutal* in order to get someone off your back... and if they don't stop, then you have clear evidence it's not you and that you can take things to the next level.


Yeah, basically this. When people have these delusional crushes, you cannot leave _any_ opening whatsoever. And just so everyone doesn't think that this is a "woman" problem, I've had to deal with this more than once too. It may sound harsh, but the unvarnished truth is actually the best thing for you to do--for both parties.



Jennywocky said:


> That is what anyone would think. It's a shame that some people do not want to take the hint or just can't perceive it. Unfortunately it leaves more sensitive/empathetic people like us wondering what we need to do to convey the message, since we don't want to hurt someone's feelings unnecessarily.


Yeah, I start getting pretty pissed too, especially if I have to say it more than once, which I have. I put it back on them--it's their problem, if you are very direct with your communication. I have actually said to someone, "I am not attracted to you. I have never been attracted to you. And I will never be attracted to you." She cried, of course. But damn! I've already made it clear to this person that I was not only not available, but also not interested.

People can get pretty damn lost in their delusions.

So, OP...be unequivocal, brutally direct and honest. No arguments or discussion.


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## Mioonebet (Jul 1, 2012)

I have stories, not that I'll share here, but I have dealt with this situation twice. Some advice, end the friendship. Yes, he should get it by now but he hasn't. A healthy person would have. He isn't healthy. He doesn't respect you or himself. Why does he continue then? The chase, the challenge. He hasn't been able despite his persistence, to " win you over" . That intrigues him. Refer to the song "Uninvited" by Alanis Morrisette or "Possession" by Sarah Mclachlan. Letting him hold you as you cry is a BAD idea. He cares only that he's holding you, close to you, getting points for being supportive. Not that you're crying over another man. Ask yourself this: Is he really a friend at all if he doesn't respect your feelings about him, your choice not to be romantically involved? Or is he a toxic person whom values his obsession with you above everything else? Is he really interested in you as a person? Or are you valued as object for what you represent to him? In my case the answer was no, the guy wasn't a friend but a creepy parasite. The only way to deal with that is no contact. None. Good luck and be aware.


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## Elvish Lives (Nov 29, 2013)

Stop playing with guys you don't like just to get attention and stop giving them your phone number. Case closed.


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## theflame (Apr 12, 2014)

Elvish Lives said:


> Stop playing with guys you don't like just to get attention and stop giving them your phone number. Case closed.


A) I wasn't playing with him he was someone I worked with and I gave him my contacts for work purposes. He used my contacts for other means. So don't act like I'm the one playing. I made it very clear to him that I'm just looking for friends right now and he still tries to date me despite me saying that. I said it very loudly when he tried to hold my hand, "I'm just looking for friends right now." We've had this discussion several times, even in person.

B) I was very forward with him several times saying I don't have the time for this right now telling him I don't want to date ANYONE near me since I'm in a long distance thing and he chooses to twist my words. He says, "Oh, why would you want to date someone far away when have someone here like me, blah blah blah"

C) I don't play. It's called being nice in rejecting someone but people choose to take advantage and twist words when I've been clear several times: especially when I flinched away his hand when he tried to hold my hand and he even told me, "I've been trying to hold your hand for the past half hour and you're talking about these other jerk guys, and you're not giving me a chance."

That should have been clear to him but people are seriously delusional and that's not my problem.

but if he shows up again uninvited, I'm going to be harsh this last time. I've had it with people thinking they can take advantage of kindness for it meaning something else.


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## theflame (Apr 12, 2014)

I thought of something new...what if the next time he tries to call and text me again I should say this:

"I felt I've been a nice girl in rejecting you, but you seem to continue to persist and take my kindness to mean something else. I talk about other guys around you all the time hoping you'd take a hint. Do you really want to know in full detail why I haven't been answering your calls and texts? Some of the things you have said are down right uncomfortable, especially when you said those things after multiple times I told you I wasn't interested in you and I never want to be around you again. Keep trying to contact me if you want an earful of what a prick you're being disrespecting my feelings of not being interested in you."


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## Dragunov (Oct 2, 2013)

thelostxin said:


> I thought of something new...what if the next time he tries to call and text me again I should say this:
> 
> "I felt I've been a nice girl in rejecting you, but you seem to continue to persist and take my kindness to mean something else. I talk about other guys around you all the time hoping you'd take a hint. Do you really want to know in full detail why I haven't been answering your calls and texts? Some of the things you have said are down right uncomfortable, especially when you said those things after multiple times I told you I wasn't interested in you and I never want to be around you again. Keep trying to contact me if you want an earful of what a prick you're being disrespecting my feelings of not being interested in you."


A plain and simple " I do not like you, leave me alone" would suffice.


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## theflame (Apr 12, 2014)

Dragunov said:


> A plain and simple " I do not like you, leave me alone" would suffice.


Lol, that is true. If he keeps persisting even after I say what you told me, I think I'll say the other things.


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## Brother (Sep 21, 2013)

This isn't a criticism, but meant as a solution. I understand you're in distress, and that you don't want to have to take it up with him directly. But you have to.

This is a problem I recognise from how some of my girl friends deal with problematic men. They are so uncomfortable with confrontation, that they will drop the absolute minimum of hints and clues when they need to reject someone. No more conflict than they're forced to. But in being as careful as they are, it's too *ambiguous*.

This is how the human mind works. The more ambiguous the information you get, the more your wishful thinking will influence how you interpret it. The worse your wishful thinking, the greater the margins of ambiguity. When it's love, even a crush, it gets bad.

So maybe you think you _aren't_ ambiguous.

Well. You cried in his arms. You took a walk with him, talked to him, opened up to him emotionally. On the topic of hanging out, you told him you're busy with a project and don't want to hang out with anyone for a while. To him, that _is_ ambiguous, and he interprets it in a way that he still has hope for a relationship with you. You must be *unambiguous* and drive the point home. Tell him you'll never be interested in him, and that he has to stop calling and sending messages. Don't make a friend talk to him, you have to do it yourself. Leave _no_ room for interpretation.

Yes, he's an idiot. A normal guy would've probably taken a hint by now. But he hasn't. And involving the police because you can't handle being blunt with people is very unwise. Don't make someone else talk to him, don't talk to one of _his _friends. When you bring it up, don't cross your fingers and _hope_ he's got it, make him understand.

You talk about people being delusional, and twisting your words. That's ambiguity. You say you're just being nice, and I'm sure you are, but you have to understand how it works.


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## Elvish Lives (Nov 29, 2013)

thelostxin said:


> A) I wasn't playing with him he was someone I worked with and I gave him my contacts for work purposes. He used my contacts for other means. So don't act like I'm the one playing. I made it very clear to him that I'm just looking for friends right now and he still tries to date me despite me saying that. I said it very loudly when he tried to hold my hand, "I'm just looking for friends right now." We've had this discussion several times, even in person.
> 
> B) I was very forward with him several times saying I don't have the time for this right now telling him I don't want to date ANYONE near me since I'm in a long distance thing and he chooses to twist my words. He says, "Oh, why would you want to date someone far away when have someone here like me, blah blah blah"
> 
> ...


Fair enough, but if you're an attractive woman you must understand that men are likely to become attracted to you if you're friendly with them at all. I'm not saying this guy is blameless for overstepping the bounds, but just know that this is likely.

SFPs seem to be especially talented at getting into these situations. I've dated several SFPs (including my current ISFP gf) and they all had this easygoing charm that made guys think that they were special to them. I tried to tell them that they were unwittingly flirting (part of me thinks they knew what they were doing) but they insisted they were just being nice. The problem with this is that delusional guys (there are lots of them) will look for any little sign that an attractive girl likes them and turn it into epic love in their twisted minds. 

You just have to be careful who you mess with, and be prepared to get really blunt when guys push for more than you want.


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## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

@_MindBomb_: Yes to all that, and my story's ending was that this person I had to be so blunt with told me later that my directness had been appreciated. It had been obvious that I wasn't interested, but for some reason it had been difficult to swallow until i had been so straightforward about it.

... as others have stated since, less wordy and short/more direct is better. When you explain too much, it provides waaaay too much cushion, unfortunately.

had another experience where a guy I had been friends with for years actually propositioned me... and he was married. I told him flat-out no and that I wasn't interested, I thought I had been direct. Then a month later he invited me over to their house to watch movies... and then he got kind of tipsy (I guess for liquid courage) and put the moves on me while his wife was sleeping elsewhere in the house (she laid down because she hadn't been feeling good). Just...what the...? Hadn't I been clear? it actually ended our friendship, I left the house and never went back and later chewed him out online about it. Sometimes people really just don't hear you when they are focused on getting you.


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

thelostxin said:


> In the "creepy" thread, I had posted my experience with what makes someone creepy.
> 
> Today, my latest stalker texted me this morning: "MORNING sunshine." He always texts me from 8 to 9 am and I don't know what he's trying to accomplish with that other than to be an annoyance. I'm at work at that time.
> 
> ...


I don't think he is a full fledged creeper. The reason I say this is because I feel you enabled him a bit.

You kept contact open.

Honestly I have a method when theres no interest in a pursuer.

First its very friendly nice, but distant hoping they will take a que. But if that doesn't work then I am straight forward. If that doesn't work then I IGNORE THEM. If they question why I keep ignoring them I might answer by saying "I am just living my own life wish you the best with yours"


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## Scrabbletray (Apr 27, 2014)

Cinnamon83 said:


> I don't think he is a full fledged creeper. The reason I say this is because I feel you enabled him a bit.
> 
> You kept contact open.
> 
> ...


As a guy who has been called a creeper before let me just say that this sort of strategy is exactly what guys need. Too many girls think they are being nice by continuing to talk to a guy instead of just straight up telling them they aren't interested. A lot of guys aren't going to get the subtle signals girls try to drop.


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## theflame (Apr 12, 2014)

Cinnamon83 said:


> I don't think he is a full fledged creeper. The reason I say this is because I feel you enabled him a bit.
> 
> You kept contact open.
> 
> ...


I don't believe in ending a friendship just because someone may like me more than I like him or the other way around. I left no door open for him. I told him I am into one person and one person only and that is not him. We used to hang out as friends until he became aggressive and that's when I started to ignore him, especially when we've had this discussion several times over in person that I will not ever be interested in him. I figure he'd take a hint when I said I have a long distance interest, but that just made him interpret things a different way. He is in fact a creeper, especially if I am crying about another guy in front of him and I say I don't want anyone else but that guy I'm crying about but he still takes the opportunity to be a rebound.


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## theflame (Apr 12, 2014)

a1b2c3d4 said:


> As a guy who has been called a creeper before let me just say that this sort of strategy is exactly what guys need. Too many girls think they are being nice by continuing to talk to a guy instead of just straight up telling them they aren't interested. A lot of guys aren't going to get the subtle signals girls try to drop.


Which is unfortunate. I hope the guys don't say that the girls are "stuck up" because they brought it upon themselves not to take the "nice" hints. I've had people make up nasty things about me just because I rejected them. People can be so immature. Nobody likes being rejected. I don't make up things about a guy whenever he rejects me. I just say, "Screw him" and move on.


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

thelostxin said:


> I don't believe in ending a friendship just because someone may like me more than I like him or the other way around. I left no door open for him. I told him I am into one person and one person only and that is not him. We used to hang out as friends until he became aggressive and that's when I started to ignore him, especially when we've had this discussion several times over in person that I will not ever be interested in him. I figure he'd take a hint when I said I have a long distance interest, but that just made him interpret things a different way. He is in fact a creeper, especially if I am crying about another guy in front of him and I say I don't want anyone else but that guy I'm crying about but he still takes the opportunity to be a rebound.


Guys hate being friend zoned. In my personal opinion its a dis service to him. He is not wanting to be a friend. He wants more. I think if you care about the person sometimes the kindest method is not giving them false hope. 

No pun intended.


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## theflame (Apr 12, 2014)

Cinnamon83 said:


> Guys hate being friend zoned. In my personal opinion its a dis service to him. He is not wanting to be a friend. He wants more. I think if you care about the person sometimes the kindest method is not giving them false hope.
> 
> No pun intended.


That's unfortunate that some people can't handle being just friends especially when I've been pretty clear I'm into one person only. He knew I have a hard time meeting people in town and I hate whenever a guy nearby is attracted to me. Most guys I've met always try to hook up with me and I'm sick of it when they don't contact me anymore if I don't give them what they want. I'm just looking for people to hang out with because it's so boring and most girls here are drama-ish.

For me, if they really valued a person, they'd at least try to keep a person in their lives as friends and not be an all or nothing deal and still pursue other people while maintaining a friendship. Although sometimes yeah, it can be too much still even being friends when you like the person a lot. They don't have to stop all contacts, but occasionally catch up.


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## Children Of The Bad Revolution (Oct 8, 2013)

It's not a girl's problem if a guy doesn't like to be friend zoned (ugh). Some guys just do not take no for an answer. It's gross if people say 'girls lead guys on'. Sounds a lot like something else and it's not a good way of thinking.


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## Elvish Lives (Nov 29, 2013)

isingthebodyelectric said:


> It's gross if people say 'girls lead guys on'.


Sometimes they do, just as guys sometimes lead girls on.


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## Children Of The Bad Revolution (Oct 8, 2013)

Elvish Lives said:


> Sometimes they do, just as guys sometimes lead girls on.


That's never an excuse for any kind of behaviour.


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## Elvish Lives (Nov 29, 2013)

isingthebodyelectric said:


> That's never an excuse for any kind of behaviour.


I didn't say it was an excuse, I just said it happens, and it happens to both genders.


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## Children Of The Bad Revolution (Oct 8, 2013)

Sounds like people were saying that is a 'reason' behind mens creepiness is what I'm trying to say. Which its not. With sane men I'd hope there wasn't some kind of apparent catalyst that enables them to react that way..


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## marked174 (Feb 24, 2010)

It sounds like this guy is kind of a creeper, and that he has trouble respecting boundaries.

It also sounds like the OP is really, really getting off to the attention, and could put a stop to this if she really wanted to, but would rather brag about it on the internet then actually deal with the problem. If she really wanted it to end, showing the stalker this thread would probably do the trick.


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## theflame (Apr 12, 2014)

marked174 said:


> It sounds like this guy is kind of a creeper, and that he has trouble respecting boundaries.
> 
> It also sounds like the OP is really, really getting off to the attention, and could put a stop to this if she really wanted to, but would rather brag about it on the internet then actually deal with the problem. If she really wanted it to end, showing the stalker this thread would probably do the trick.


Oh yeah, I sure "love" the attention in being stalked. You see, when a woman rejects a guy nicely they get called playing games, but when we reject someone head on, we get called a bitch. I'm not a bitch and it's not my fault some men are stupid to pick up cues, especially when they're older than me behaving this way which is unacceptable.


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## marked174 (Feb 24, 2010)

thelostxin said:


> Oh yeah, I sure "love" the attention in being stalked. You see, when a woman rejects a guy nicely they get called playing games, but when we reject someone head on, we get called a bitch. I'm not a bitch and it's not my fault some men are stupid to pick up cues, especially when they're older than me behaving this way which is unacceptable.


See, this is what I'm talking about. You care so much more about being called a tease or a bitch, and care so much more about it not being your fault than you do solving the problem.

If you were really being stalked, really being threatened, then being called a few names by ignorant people wouldn't matter one bit to you. You would care more about being safe than being blamed, but you don't.

It makes you look like you're foolishly blind to the danger you are in, or that you aren't in danger and are getting off on the drama.


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## theflame (Apr 12, 2014)

marked174 said:


> See, this is what I'm talking about. You care so much more about being called a tease or a bitch, and care so much more about it not being your fault than you do solving the problem.
> 
> If you were really being stalked, really being threatened, then being called a few names by ignorant people wouldn't matter one bit to you. You would care more about being safe than being blamed, but you don't.
> 
> It makes you look like you're foolishly blind to the danger you are in, or that you aren't in danger and are getting off on the drama.


So don't complain about a woman being a "bitch" when she does reject you in the way in which you asked to since some men can't seem to take not-so-very subtle hints...I mean me flinching away my hand when he tried to hold it, without saying anything?! I'm pretty sure that's a clear sign someone's not interested.


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## Scrabbletray (Apr 27, 2014)

It's so silly to say "men do this", "women do that" over and over again because there are billions of men and billions of women and what everyone is saying is true for SOME of them, but not true for OTHERS of them. Yes, some guys are stalkers. Yes, some girls like to tease a lot of guys and lead them on. You have to deal with each person as an individual though, not worry about the bad things that have happened in past relationships.


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## LostFavor (Aug 18, 2011)

xisnotx said:


> Not just mine, but everyone else's, too.
> 
> Tainting a man as creepy is hurtful to him, brings him down in the eyes of others, and is frequently a highly subjective opinion formed mostly from an individual's perspective. I'm just tired of girls calling guys creepy when most of the guy's I've met aren't creepy...but simply have trouble communicating their sexuality in a way that women are comfortable with....a sexuality he is born with, is stuck with, and is pretty frustrating if guys are being honest. No man asked to be a man. It just happened. The sexual frustration men feel, as a woman, you should have an idea of it, at least. Many men feel shame for the sexual ways in which they consider girls...but they shouldn't. It's perfectly natural. Women making threads about creepy men, it just feeds into that sexual shame many men already feel...
> 
> ...


Sorry bub, but pestering someone who doesn't respond to you with interest at all, and actively avoids you, is a step towards creepy. Showing up invited when the other person has no interest in you is right into the realm of creepy. 

The fact that some guys struggle a lot with women isn't an excuse to border on harassment. No one in their right mind should be wasting time on someone who gives nothing in return and isn't interested - creepiness factor aside, it's just wasting your life away to do so. Granted, some people are going to waste time in such a way out of pure ignorance and I don't fault them for that, but if you step too far, ignorance is not going to save you with the law.

In other words, guys have a responsibility to take care of themselves and so do girls. That means moving on when the person you're showing interest in is not reciprocating. If you can't get laid without pestering people, then you need to seriously evaluate what you have to offer and whether you're being true to yourself, or just putting up a facade to get what you want.

I mean that in the nicest way possible. Truly. :happy:


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## marked174 (Feb 24, 2010)

thelostxin said:


> So don't complain about a woman being a "bitch" when she does reject you in the way in which you asked to since some men can't seem to take not-so-very subtle hints...I mean me flinching away my hand when he tried to hold it, without saying anything?! I'm pretty sure that's a clear sign someone's not interested.


Personally, I don't complain about honest rejection (unless it is needlessly cruel). To me, it's far worse to lead a guy on (not exactly saying that you are doing that). 

Bottom line: if he really is stalking you, or harassing you then you need to do something concrete about it. If he isn't, then you need to stop acting like he is; because it makes legitimate victims look like teases too. Either way, these "obvious" signs and implications need to stop.


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## eydimork (Mar 19, 2014)

Creepy girl story.

1...2...3... remark: "I LOVE YOU!"

That was quick. Surely we can eat dinner first.


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## SouthernSaxon (Feb 21, 2014)

thelostxin said:


> So don't complain about a woman being a "bitch" when she does reject you in the way in which you asked to since some men can't seem to take not-so-very subtle hints...I mean me flinching away my hand when he tried to hold it, without saying anything?! I'm pretty sure that's a clear sign someone's not interested.


Well, the thing is, there is such a thing as push-pull play. As a man if I was in that situation I process it holistically (Ni-Fe, lol). The girl's facial expressions and body language are equally important to the physical act of rejection here. If a girl pulled her hand away from me when i tried to touch it, but her expressions were not negative, I would assume teasing and push-pull play. Many guys might get mixed up because they're not good at reading this kind of stuff.

I should also point out, to counter your example and general man bashing, that a number of women will confuse a man, sometimes deliberately, with signs of welcome and openness to their presence only to reject the poor sod when he starts making overtures. There are very, very few things in this world that anger me more than a woman who leads men on because she likes the attention, only to deny them. Manipulative, non-reciprocal interactions.


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## Chesire Tower (Jan 19, 2013)

thelostxin said:


> I try to avoid being rude at all costs because he's just going to call me a "bitch" and paint me out to be the "bad guy" when I was as nice as I could be about it. Man, even when I say I have a "boyfriend" that doesn't stop some people to still try to pursue me. By "boyfriend" to them I'm pretending to have one even if I don't and they still talk to me anyway. I mean, if some guy told me he has a girlfriend/fiance/wife I would have stopped right there. But the guys I run into keep trying to justify their acts and don't stop. It's ridiculous.
> 
> He should have taken the hint when I said I do have an interest or when I flinched away his hand. I guess that isn't enough, ugh!


That's exactly what he's COUNTING on. He's taking advantage of your good nature; don't allow it.


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## theflame (Apr 12, 2014)

Myoho Traveller said:


> That's exactly what he's COUNTING on. He's taking advantage of your good nature; don't allow it.


He finally stopped trying to contact me over the past two weeks and I haven't heard anything from him without me saying anything. I kept praying hoping the creep would back off. Then another creeper like him is doing the same thing. I don't get these guys at all. Whenever someone is not interested in me, I don't waste time continuously being rejected. I don't know if it's for good or for now because he pops up again once every few weeks when it seems like he's stopped.

I have a feeling he's going to be a heck of a lot worse about it once June and July rolls around. Knowing him, I'm shocked he hasn't come over uninvited again, especially now that the weather is decent. I hope he doesn't come over because when/if he does I'll tear him a new a hole.


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## Chesire Tower (Jan 19, 2013)

thelostxin said:


> He finally stopped trying to contact me over the past two weeks and I haven't heard anything from him without me saying anything. I kept praying hoping the creep would back off. Then another creeper like him is doing the same thing. I don't get these guys at all. Whenever someone is not interested in me, I don't waste time continuously being rejected. I don't know if it's for good or for now because he pops up again once every few weeks when it seems like he's stopped.
> 
> I have a feeling he's going to be a heck of a lot worse about it once June and July rolls around. Knowing him, I'm shocked he hasn't come over uninvited again, especially now that the weather is decent. I hope he doesn't come over because when/if he does I'll tear him a new a hole.


Listen, he is NOT like you; he isn't interested in taking hints. You have to be direct with people like that. I had this guy keep calling me non-stop - even though I never returned his messages. He finally backed off when I told him never to call me again. Yeah, they might get nasty but it is just another form of manipulation. If you don't give into it; he will back off. There were even times when I was forced to threaten them with police action to get them to leave me alone. People like that usually back off, if they know you mean business. 

Good Luck. =)


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## theflame (Apr 12, 2014)

Myoho Traveller said:


> Listen, he is NOT like you; he isn't interested in taking hints. You have to be direct with people like that. I had this guy keep calling me non-stop - even though I never returned his messages. He finally backed off when I told him never to call me again. Yeah, they might get nasty but it is just another form of manipulation. If you don't give into it; he will back off. There were even times when I was forced to threaten them with police action to get them to leave me alone. People like that usually back off, if they know you mean business.
> 
> Good Luck. =)


Thanks so much for your experience.  I'm going to wait it out to see if he's finally stopped contacting me on his own, but if he tries one more time, that's when I will definitely be direct.


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## Nightchill (Oct 19, 2013)

thelostxin said:


> The last time I spoke to him in person I made it clear to him when he showed up out of the blue was that I didn't want to hang out with anyone for a while (well to him, I only meant him), that I had projects I needed to work on. Ever since then, he still persists in trying to hang out with me anyway.


He isn't pretty, is he?


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## Chesire Tower (Jan 19, 2013)

thelostxin said:


> Thanks so much for your experience.  I'm going to wait it out to see if he's finally stopped contacting me on his own, but if he tries one more time, that's when I will definitely be direct.


You're very welcome. :happy: 

This guy just sounds like the kind of tool who uses manipulation tactics to get what he wants and counts on people being too afraid to be "rude" or to "offend" him. I've even heard of women who allowed people _like_ this guy to aggressively pressure them to go on a date with them and they went along because they didn't want to be rude. I'm all for kindness and consideration but I am also well aware, when I encounter people who view that as weakness.


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## theflame (Apr 12, 2014)

Nightchill said:


> He isn't pretty, is he?


He's not ugly, but he isn't my type. He could be good looking to someone else. He's clingy, disrespectful, and can't take a hint.
Does he really think I'm going to want to hang out with him when he says crap like,

"I would take you to show you my new house I just moved into, but I don't think that's a good idea" seems like an invite for rape to me so I avoid him. 

I wonder what the men who defend his "struggles with women" think about that statement to a woman. Do they think that's a just thing to say, that a woman should hang out with a man when he says things like that?

If this was their daughter that a man was doing this to, so they'd just let that man get away with harassing their daughter because men "struggle" and some people should cut them some slack. Some of the logic I've seen are pretty amusing to justify people's behaviors.


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## Emerald Legend (Jul 13, 2010)

> Did he honestly think I'd still want to hang out with him when I'm talking about wanting to see my long distance interest and he said, "I'd do something raunchy to you on your birthday" which caused me to become uncomfortable. *I literally cried in his arms when he hugged me (the last time he invited himself over)*, about another guy when he pretended to care, and he's still going to try to hit on me at the same time. The things he said made me never want to see him again that's how uncomfortable he made me. I will not go over to his house alone or at all.


Not like you're leading him on or anything


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## theflame (Apr 12, 2014)

Emerald Legend said:


> Not like you're leading him on or anything


You forgot to highlight, "about another guy I'm still trying to work things out with" so what's so "misleading" about me talking about other guys? Nah, the hand flinching, the saying I just want to be friends, the saying I'm always busy when he tries to hang out with me...oh yeah, that's so "misleading" if someone said they're always busy and don't want to make time for me I can take a hint and I don't need to have things spelled out.

Also he forced himself into a hug with me. I didn't want it and he just kept pushing for it. So I never mislead the dumb a-hole. Keep making up excuses for him, maybe you see yourself in a little bit of him that's why you're mad bro?

Edit: also, you'd let a man treat your daughter this way when she was being kind in letting him down? That's what it sounds like.


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## theflame (Apr 12, 2014)

If someone keeps blowing you off time and again and not making the efforts to hang out, I'm pretty sure that's not misleading. I get what some of you are saying that I was never "direct," but really I shouldn't have to be and he should have taken the hint every time I never answer him. There's nothing misleading about someone not being interested and never answering your calls and texts when you try.


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## Emerald Legend (Jul 13, 2010)

thelostxin said:


> You forgot to highlight, "about another guy I'm still trying to work things out with" so what's so "misleading" about me talking about other guys? Nah, the hand flinching, the saying I just want to be friends, the saying I'm always busy when he tries to hang out with me...oh yeah, that's so "misleading" if someone said they're always busy and don't want to make time for me I can take a hint and I don't need to have things spelled out.
> 
> Also he forced himself into a hug with me. I didn't want it and he just kept pushing for it. So I never mislead the dumb a-hole. Keep making up excuses for him, maybe you see yourself in a little bit of him that's why you're mad bro?
> 
> Edit: also, you'd let a man treat your daughter this way when she was being kind in letting him down? That's what it sounds like.


How about letting him down..Sis, like actually uttering the words "Listen, we have no romantic future together, and it's not a good idea for us to be friends. We're two, too different people."

Being "kind" in letting him down? Telepathy isn't a human sense (last time I checked) and he'd take advantage of your not uttering the magic words stringed into the sentence - as I posted above- by pursuing you more, especially when both of you hugged/communication channel is still open. How does one 'force hug' without a person's consent? And why not letting him know physical intimacy is out of the question. If I try to hug a stranger or not-so-good friend, s/he would let me know..through body language or otherwise- like death-staring me to oblivion. 

As for your hypothetical- I would raise my daughter to be straight forward and blunt..not a telepath-psychic who hugs her stalker and hope they somehow get the message that they're not appreciated in her life.


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## Dragunov (Oct 2, 2013)

Sounds like your loving the attention.


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## Children Of The Bad Revolution (Oct 8, 2013)

Emerald Legend said:


> Not like you're leading him on or anything


Oh, please. God forbid a woman make any physical contact (crying isn't sexual or flirtatious, really though..really?) so that men don't take it as an invitation to fuck them.


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## theflame (Apr 12, 2014)

isingthebodyelectric said:


> Oh, please. God forbid a woman make any physical contact (crying isn't sexual or flirtatious, really though..really?) so that men don't take it as an invitation to fuck them.


The way I see it people will think niceness = interest and if they're nasty about rejection, that means they "secretly" like them. It's a lose lose situation either way so I had no choice but to ignore him.


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## Children Of The Bad Revolution (Oct 8, 2013)

thelostxin said:


> The way I see it people will think niceness = interest and if they're nasty about rejection, that means they "secretly" like them. It's a lose lose situation either way so I had no choice but to ignore him.


It's all bs tbqh with you.


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## Dragunov (Oct 2, 2013)

thelostxin said:


> The way I see it people will think niceness = interest and if they're nasty about rejection, that means they "secretly" like them. It's a lose lose situation either way so I had no choice but to ignore him.


Well crying in someones arms when they hug you usually suggest that you trust them, not that you think they're a creep and want them to leave you alone.


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## TheOwl (Nov 3, 2010)

Say, "I am not interested in being in a relationship with you. Even if I wasn't interested in someone else, I still wouldn't be interested in you. I am also not interested in being your friend or even talking to you at all. Stop trying to contact me."

If that doesn't work, change your number and/or call the police. 

This has happened to me before, and "stop trying to contact me" didn't work. Changing my number kiiinddaa worked but not really (he still showed up at my house and kept contacting my friends and family).


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## Children Of The Bad Revolution (Oct 8, 2013)

Dragunov said:


> Well crying in someones arms when they hug you usually suggest that you trust them, not that you think they're a creep and want them to leave you alone.


Doesn't suggest anything sexual or anything further, though.


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## TheOwl (Nov 3, 2010)

thelostxin said:


> I totally would show him off but my interest is 8 and a half hours away from me . People think that's still a green light for them even if my interest is far away. I don't want to put my guy in any unnecessary danger. It's unfortunate that some people have to go that far to physically see.


I read this somewhere on the internet the other day and wrote it down because it resonated with me: 
"It’s actually really scary to me how guys have no problem hitting on/harassing girls when girls are alone but will leave them alone when they see them with their significant other. Because they respect you more as another mans property than they respect you as a human."


Also, BE A BITCH. He will leave you alone. Be a bitch and be proud of being a bitch. A bitch in this world is someone who stands up for herself, and that sounds like a good thing to me.


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## Dragunov (Oct 2, 2013)

isingthebodyelectric said:


> Doesn't suggest anything sexual or anything further, though.


It's not going to get him to leave her alone though is it? If anything it suggest he should keep pursuing.


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## Children Of The Bad Revolution (Oct 8, 2013)

Dragunov said:


> It's not going to get him to leave her alone though is it? If anything it suggest he should keep pursuing.


No....no...no.


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## Dragunov (Oct 2, 2013)

isingthebodyelectric said:


> No....no...no.


Great response, really a step forward in this discussion.


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## Children Of The Bad Revolution (Oct 8, 2013)

Dragunov said:


> Great response, really a step forward in this discussion.


It doesn't suggest he should keep pursuing at all. Men should never presume. Take no for an answer.


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## theflame (Apr 12, 2014)

SouthernSaxon said:


> Maybe I should mention that i can often be completely and utterly illogical, especially around women?
> 
> This guy sounds to me like a classic example of someone in limerence (Google it). It is quite common and can affect women as well as men. The only difference is that when it's a woman in this state, generally people act as apologists for her behaviour and don't rush to label her "creep" and "stalker".
> 
> People cease to act rationally when they feel strong emotions connected to someone else. I've been like that and you may have as well. It's not something we should condemn people for. The issue here is that this guy's feelings are not reciprocated and the OP wants to get him off her back. Fair enough, but doing nothing is not going to help. I'm a male who's been like this before, you do have to pretty much tell us to piss off.


So you think it's "romantic" being pestered 24/7 and stalked by someone I have never showed interest to and never will...that's called being an annoyance. If someone's not interested they're not interested. Why would you want to be with a person you had to FORCE to be with you? It shouldn't be this easy to be with someone, but it shouldn't also be this hard. I find people who can't handle rejection like him to have low self-esteem issues. I don't want someone who disrespects people. There's nothing romantic about that. If he really cared about me he would leave me alone and not try to force me to be with him.


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## Elvish Lives (Nov 29, 2013)

thelostxin said:


> So you think it's "romantic" being pestered 24/7 and stalked by someone I have never showed interest to and never will...that's called being an annoyance. If someone's not interested they're not interested. Why would you want to be with a person you had to FORCE to be with you? It shouldn't be this easy to be with someone, but it shouldn't also be this hard. I find people who can't handle rejection like him to have low self-esteem issues. I don't want someone who disrespects people. There's nothing romantic about that. If he really cared about me he would leave me alone and not try to force me to be with him.


You misunderstood his point about limerence and the irrationality of romantic feelings. It isn't possible to subtly hint around with someone who's experiencing irrational attachment and expect them to get the message. Passivity is just the wrong approach to this problem. Furthermore, you seem to want to surgically remove his sexual interest from the relationship while keeping his caring and attentiveness in tact. Sorry, doesn't work that way. You have to amputate the whole relationship in order to move on. If it takes a restraining order, then get one! But don't fence-sit and get irritated every time he provides anything more than the exact level of attention that you seek.


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## theflame (Apr 12, 2014)

For those of you who still think it's "okay" to pester someone 24/7 and show up uninvited, I hope you know I COULD press charges on him. That's called harassment. Ever heard of the word? Clearly you haven't in your warped delusions thinking I "mislead" him. Nah, I never mislead him and I'm not going to waste time with people who don't know how to handle rejection.

Obviously some dumb people don't know how the law works. You can justify his actions all you want, because like I said, you're probably a "creeper" if you're infatuated with defending him. The fact is now I've been ignoring him for two months. It doesn't really matter what you think happened before.

It's considered harassment when someone doesn't want to talk to you and you keep showing up to their place uninvited and constantly pestering them over the phone. You could get arrested for that.

Get the picture now, or still no?

You say I "mislead" him. The fact is now I've been ignoring him for a long time. When someone ignores your calls and texts that means for you to piss off. Some of you idiots should do the same, because clearly you have no respect for people's spaces.


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## theflame (Apr 12, 2014)

Over all, I like this forum. I really do think there are some questionable people here, but for the most part, people I have talked to make sense and are logical. The ones that don't make sense it's like talking to a brick wall. I have to repeat the same things over and over and it doesn't sink into their heads. So basically they say I should hang out with the man so I can get raped if I hang out with him alone. Clearly the people who defend him have never had someone be obsessed with them the way this creeper is obsessed with me which is why they don't think it's a big deal. 

The illogical posters have been the persons to be obsessed with other people so they wouldn't know what it's like on the other side of the fence of the person being stalked and harassed. If you think this is attention people deliberately want because some people haven't been hit on in a long time, I'll laugh when it happens to you to see if you still "want" it. Then again, with some of your personalities, no wonder no one has ever been obsessed with YOU so you won't ever know what it's like because some of you are the ones who obsess and stalk people. Come at me again! I'd advise you not to. I don't debate with nonsensical people and stop taking up my thread with your nonsense. If you haven't experienced this type of harassment, then you really don't have any input.


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## Countryboy (Nov 29, 2013)

> And he kept grabbing me toward him when again, I showed I did not want him to touch me so I caved in.
> 
> I didn't ask for it.


You didn't ask for it? Give me a break. You do realize that guys are typically expected to pursue, and girls get pursued.

You're playing hard to get. Your actions clearly show him that you want pursued, but you want to make him work for it. And your actions clearly show that when he pursues enough, you cave in and submit to him.



> the fact that's been happening now is I've not responded to him in months so he should take a hint.


He has taken the hint. You have hinted VERY clearly that you are playing hard to get, and you want him to pursue you harder.

If you really want him to leave you alone, then you need to do these things:
1) Tell him in no uncertain terms that you do not want him to contact you. You do not even want to be friends. (Telling him that you want to remain friends leaves the door open for more.) Tell him that if he ever contacts you again, you will press charges with the police.
2) Tell your boss at work about your problems with this guy. That way your boss can take steps to limit you from work projects involving this guy and making the situation worse.
3) If he tries contacting you again, call the police.

You MUST quit leading him on. NEVER cave in to any advance. NEVER allow him to touch you or hug you. If he tries, loudly tell him to keep his hands away from you. Make sure other people around you know what is going on. If he asks to go do anything, tell him NO every time, that you NEVER want to spend time with him.


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## theflame (Apr 12, 2014)

Countryboy said:


> You didn't ask for it? Give me a break. You do realize that guys are typically expected to pursue, and girls get pursued.
> 
> You're playing hard to get. Your actions clearly show him that you want pursued, but you want to make him work for it. And your actions clearly show that when he pursues enough, you cave in and submit to him.
> 
> ...


Like I said I'm not going to continue defending myself from people who refuse to listen to what actually happened. Waste of time. I never mislead him. What happened was he couldn't tell reality from his head and he thought what was happening in reality wasn't. He was only dreaming it.

Forgive me that I would like to be nice in rejecting someone that I don't feel the need to be a bitch. Next time though, don't be making a come back at me calling me a BITCH since people can't be reasoned with in a reasonable manner.

Feel free to read my replies to other people who have said the same things as you. You haven't said anything new and I have better things to do than to repeat myself. If you don't feel the need to read previous replies because you're too lazy to scroll through the threads, don't think you have the rights to have a say in the post.

Like I said, talking to people like you is talking to a brick wall.

Over and OUT!

How about this? You jack asses are right. I sure in the hell mislead him when I gave him a look of disgust every time he tried to touch me when I didn't want him to. Try to twist that into something it isn't!

Do you know what harassment is? Clearly you don't. Other wise you wouldn't keep coming in here saying he has a right to do what he did.


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## theflame (Apr 12, 2014)

How about this: in order to avoid more confusion in the future: when a girl says she has an interest that isn't you, don't still continue to pursue her. I'm pretty sure I made it loud and clear to him that I am still trying to work things out with my long distance interest and he is the one who keeps bothering me keeps calling me keeps texting me keeps showing up whenever he pleases. Like I said, I have said every possible nice excuse before I need to become a bitch to people like you.

When a girl says she has a boyfriend, even if you think she's lying, that means she's not interested in you. That means for you to go away. That doesn't mean for you to corner her and put her in positions she doesn't want to be in so you can "misread" signals when it should have been clear the first time.

It just disgusts me how people will continue hitting on someone even if they claim to have a pretend boyfriend. Leave the person alone, stop trying to touch them when they don't want to be touched.


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## Countryboy (Nov 29, 2013)

> There's no mix up or confusion. When a person constantly ignores your calls and texts that means for you to stop calling and stop texting them.


But when you also let them hug you and cry on their shoulder....it means you are playing hard to get and you want them to pursue even more.



> Like I said, if you're defending his behavior, you must be like him yourself.


Why are you trying to be abusive? Why are you playing the blame game, instead of accepting any personal responsibility for your own actions? Why are you calling everyone else a creeper or a stalker if they are trying to look objectively at the situation? There are two sides to every story...not just your side of things.



> No sane person would put up with this crap from someone after they have continuously tried to be nice in rejecting him.


Lots of women will take offense to being called insane. They like to continually be nice to someone, at the same time rebuffing the guy's advances. It is known as playing hard to get.
Women often play this game when they don't want to seem too easy.



> If you want to continue calling a person and texting a person 24/7 when they have never answered you: you become a stalker and obsessive person, especially when I've expressed several times to him I will never be interested in dating him.


Actions speak louder than words. Not objecting when he shows up at your house....hugging him...crying on his shoulder.
These actions clearly show that your words are just...words. Sometimes no really means yes....if the actions say yes, but the words say no...the girl means yes and is just playing hard to get.



> I don't cheat and I never mislead the creep.


You may think that you have not mislead the guy. But please open your eyes to many guys on here saying that your behavior would feel misleading to them. Don't blame the guy when you are receptive to his advances one moment, and then push him away the next. You most definitely are sending the guy mixed signals.



> Respect a person's boundaries because I'm sure you wouldn't like that if a person did that to YOU!


How can you speak of respecting boundaries when you have NEVER set boundaries with this guy? Your boundaries move all over the place. You let him show up at your house. You hug him. You cry on his shoulder. You don't answer texts or phone calls. You are inconsistent.



> It didn't matter how many times she told her to go away, the other person will find a reason or a motive to reach out. Any kind of reciprocation is feedback and eventually they need it like a drug. The only thing that worked was ignoring her completely. Even the court order did nothing. @thelostxin - Ignore the guy. Seriously. Block his number and pretend you never knew him. You'll be better off and so will he.


The problem is, the OP has never told him to go away. Until she does that, ignoring will only confuse the guy. She tries giving him what she thinks are hints, and then gets upset because he can't read her mind.

IMO, any girl who is not willing to be honest with a guy deserves it when the guy keeps giving her attention. The reason she thinks the guy is so "creepy" is because she is a psychotic woman. It's not entirely the guy's fault - she most definitely bears some of the guilt herself.



> He was a great friend to talk to about things before he started to become a full fledged creep.


So what you are saying is, you friend-zoned the guy....but you haven't had the decency to break that news to him yet. You just expect him to read your mind.



> Every year I feel like I have a stalker and it feels like I have to take years for them to get the picture that I'm not interested no matter how blunt I am. I seriously feel like strangling these men, but I won't.


Have you considered the possibility that the problem is not them...but that the problem is you? If you don't like the fish that you are catching, quit using the exact same bait.



> It really pisses me off that these guys know I have a difficult time meeting people in town for friends and it always ticks me off that they make things weird, awkward, and uncomfortable, by developing an obsessed infatuation so fast. I can never be friends with most guys in my town because they always want to hook up with me the first night they meet me.


Have you considered the possibility that you are sending guys signals telling them that you are receptive to hookups? Have you considered the possibility that they develop this obsessed infatuation because you are leading them on? 



> It's so annoying that they don't just want to be friends and they automatically try to date me.


You're not in elementary school anymore. It's natural for guys to want to date girls. It's not annoying. It's just a fact of life.

Something tells me that if guys didn't want to date you, you would be complaining that guys just wanted to be your friend.



> So you think it's "romantic" being pestered 24/7 and stalked by someone I have never showed interest to and never will..
> 
> He was a great friend to talk to about things before he started to become a full fledged creep.


How can you say that you never showed interest in him, when you also say how he was a great friend? Being great friends is a big part of a successful relationship.



> I find people who can't handle rejection like him to have low self-esteem issues.


Is it that he is unable to handle rejection...or that you are unable to reject? (And your wayof shirking your personal responsibility is to blame the guy?)



> I don't want someone who disrespects people.


And guys don't want a dishonest girl who leads them on.



> If he really cared about me he would leave me alone and not try to force me to be with him.


That is really messed up. If the guy really cares about a girl, he won't try to get closer to her? That's nuts. He's not trying to force you to be with him. He's giving you the opportunity to become closer, and he's wanting you to give him some clarity on the situation. Quit sending him mixed signals.



> For those of you who still think it's "okay" to pester someone 24/7 and show up uninvited, I hope you know I COULD press charges on him. That's called harassment. Ever heard of the word? Clearly you haven't in your warped delusions thinking I "mislead" him. Nah, I never mislead him and I'm not going to waste time with people who don't know how to handle rejection.


When someone enjoys the attention, it's not known as harassment.

No, you CAN'T press charges on him for harassment. You can file a police report, but it is the PROSECUTOR who would press the charges. And if the prosecutor believes that you have lead the guy on, the prosecutor WON'T press charges because he knows a good defense attorney would rip you to shreds in court.

The delusional person in this situation appears to be you. Whether or not the guy is delusional remains to be determined, but you most definitely appear to be delusional.

Go read the narcissistic thread. Because you are exhibiting narcissistic behavior. It's everyone else's fault that the guy can't read your mind. Everyone is a creeper or a stalker if we think you are sending the guy mixed messages.



> It's considered harassment when someone doesn't want to talk to you and you keep showing up to their place uninvited and constantly pestering them over the phone. You could get arrested for that.
> 
> Get the picture now, or still no?


You are required to tell the person to leave you alone. After that, you can NOT engage in any contact with them or the police will feel that you are inviting the attention, and then playing the victim.

If they show up at your door, and you open the door....it's not harassment. If you talk to them, it's not harassment.
You won't get arrested if a girl talks to you, and then claims you harassed her. The girl is a willing participant.

What you are describing is comparable to a girl who sleeps with a guy at night, then regrets it the next morning and claims rape. The girl was a willing participant.

Get the picture now, or still no?


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## Countryboy (Nov 29, 2013)

> Forgive me that I would like to be nice in rejecting someone that I don't feel the need to be a bitch. Next time though, don't be making a come back at me calling me a BITCH since people can't be reasoned with in a reasonable manner.


If you're trying to be nice in rejecting him, be careful that your actions are not considered to be a willing participant.



> Do you know what harassment is? Clearly you don't. Other wise you wouldn't keep coming in here saying he has a right to do what he did.


Do you know what leading someone on is? Clearly you don't. Otherwise you wouldn't come on here saying that you have not lead him on.

Do you know what a narcissist is? It's someone who blames everyone else because they have problems...


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## theflame (Apr 12, 2014)

You can still keep bothering a person who doesn't want to talk to you if you want. It's up to the individuals if they want to press charges on you for harassment and assault. He's lucky I'm nice enough that I don't care for all that drama in my life. Hopefully he'll find a new target to obsess about.

Also every time he'd ambush me into hanging out I'd always say no or I'm busy. It really can't get any clearer than that.


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## Graficcha (Dec 25, 2011)

Elvish Lives said:


> You misunderstood his point about limerence and the irrationality of romantic feelings. It isn't possible to subtly hint around with someone who's experiencing irrational attachment and expect them to get the message. Passivity is just the wrong approach to this problem. Furthermore, you seem to want to surgically remove his sexual interest from the relationship while keeping his caring and attentiveness in tact. Sorry, doesn't work that way. You have to amputate the whole relationship in order to move on. If it takes a restraining order, then get one! But don't fence-sit and get irritated every time he provides anything more than the exact level of attention that you seek.


 That's bullshit. There is no such thing as being 'out of control' by sheer love-struckness.

These people who use their limerence/obsession as a reason are making up excuses for piss-poor behaviour, because they BELIEVE it's justified in the situation. They RATIONALLY DECIDE they can go ahead and disrespect someone's boundaries over their own wishful thinking that 'love makes it right'.

I'm sick of people coming up with this sort of excuses and removing the responsability from people who very deliberately misbehave, who then themselves have the luxury of using all these bullshit naratives as a convenient explanation.

@_Countryboy_ @_Elvish Lives_

If we should be more direct in rejecting someone, maybe you'd be okay with having a gun around and kneecapping stalkers then? We're supposed to defend ourselves, no, and stop being 'passive'? Apparently it's totally okay for a man to resort to physical abuse if not murder if they're 'upset' about a woman's behaviour, so maybe we should be a bit more forceful in asserting ourselves when we feel challenged.


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## Countryboy (Nov 29, 2013)

Graficcha said:


> If we should be more direct in rejecting someone, maybe you'd be okay with having a gun around and kneecapping stalkers then? We're supposed to defend ourselves, no, and stop being 'passive'? Apparently it's totally okay for a man to resort to physical abuse if not murder if they're 'upset' about a woman's behaviour, so maybe we should be a bit more forceful in asserting ourselves when we feel challenged.


I don't condone either guys or gals being offensive, rude, or dishonest. I am in favor of honesty, courtesy, and respect.

I've given several female friends and family members pepper spray and/or stun guns. Some of both groups that I gave stun guns to went on to obtain their concealed carry licenses for firearms. (and regularly carry)

Unfortunately, there will always be a few scumbags in the world. This is not permission for everyone else to act like scumbags too. I'm all in favor of both men and women empowering themselves so they are not bullied or victimized.


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## Graficcha (Dec 25, 2011)

Countryboy said:


> I don't condone either guys or gals being offensive, rude, or dishonest. I am in favor of honesty, courtesy, and respect.
> 
> I've given several female friends and family members pepper spray and/or stun guns. Some of both groups that I gave stun guns to went on to obtain their concealed carry licenses for firearms. (and regularly carry)
> 
> Unfortunately, there will always be a few scumbags in the world. This is not permission for everyone else to act like scumbags too. I'm all in favor of both men and women empowering themselves so they are not bullied or victimized.


I can agree with the notion that it's not excusable for either gender, but I disagree with this emphasis on 'the evils just doing evil stuff so the responsability lies with the defending party'.

There's something skewed in priorities there if you just decide to focus on how to get 'evildoers' to just do their evil elsewhere instead of how to get freaking adults to start acting like they are. These 'evildoers' for the *vast* majority are pretty normal people 'just like you and me' with the one difference that they get away with shitty attitudes. 

In sports, you red card cheaters too, instead of blaming the teams they should've just dealt with it better. Yes, it's a competition between restricting moochers and outsmarting cooperators, doesn't mean the way to go is to assume moochers in human society aren't that because of *learned attitudes* rather than having a freakin' genotype that predisposes them to it. We're people, not god damn cuttlefish.


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## Elvish Lives (Nov 29, 2013)

Graficcha said:


> That's bullshit. There is no such thing as being 'out of control' by sheer love-struckness.
> 
> These people who use their limerence/obsession as a reason are making up excuses for piss-poor behaviour, because they BELIEVE it's justified in the situation. They RATIONALLY DECIDE they can go ahead and disrespect someone's boundaries over their own wishful thinking that 'love makes it right'.
> 
> ...


You don't know what you're talking about.


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## Graficcha (Dec 25, 2011)

Elvish Lives said:


> You don't know what you're talking about.


Suuuure. What makes you such a great judge on that, surely not that experience in psychology, sociology, biology and all those hours you've spent reading about relationships and having them that you happen to have stowed away somewhere perchance.

Move along, kid, before I have to summon my tome of Dunning-Kruger victims and take names again.

Points on the *excellent* quality argumentation, too.


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## Elvish Lives (Nov 29, 2013)

Graficcha said:


> Suuuure. What makes you such a great judge on that, surely not that experience in psychology, sociology, biology and all those hours you've spent reading about relationships and having them that you happen to have stowed away somewhere perchance.
> 
> Move along, kid, before I have to summon my tome of Dunning-Kruger victims and take names again.
> 
> Points on the *excellent* quality argumentation, too.



Please go away.


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## Graficcha (Dec 25, 2011)

Elvish Lives said:


> Please go away.


How to Win an Argument when You Know You Are Wrong: 10 Steps

*keeping tabs* score on number six word for word. Why don't YOU piss off to go play with your sad imaginary victim complexes.


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## Scrabbletray (Apr 27, 2014)

Graficcha said:


> That's bullshit. There is no such thing as being 'out of control' by sheer love-struckness.
> 
> These people who use their limerence/obsession as a reason are making up excuses for piss-poor behaviour, because they BELIEVE it's justified in the situation. They RATIONALLY DECIDE they can go ahead and disrespect someone's boundaries over their own wishful thinking that 'love makes it right'.


If you think a person who is deeply in love is going to always act in a rational behavior then I question if you really understand what love is. I'm not trying to excuse any sort of negative actions as I believe everyone has personal responsibility, but being in love definitely has a very strong ability to override a persons rational decision making mechanisms and just ignoring that fact won't change it.


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## Graficcha (Dec 25, 2011)

a1b2c3d4 said:


> If you think a person who is deeply in love is going to always act in a rational behavior then I question if you really understand what love is. I'm not trying to excuse any sort of negative actions as I believe everyone has personal responsibility, but being in love definitely has a very strong ability to override a persons rational decision making mechanisms and just ignoring that fact won't change it.


There's a difference between having irrational feelings, and allowing yourself to act like a cunt. Feelings do not directly lead to behaviours, this is not a difficult concept. People retain a level of agency in deciding how much they'll allow themselves to act on their feelings, this is called basic self-control.

The vast majority of human thoughts and feelings can't be said to be 'rational'. Experiencing a crush can be incredibly intense, but the fact remains that ignoring someone else's boundaries and placing much more importance on your own feelings than those of the person you're crushing on is a choice. If you end up lacking the maturity to make the right choice, you deserve to get slammed for it, no matter how earnest or intense your feelings were.


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## Emerald Legend (Jul 13, 2010)

Countryboy said:


> If you're trying to be nice in rejecting him, be careful that your actions are not considered to be a willing participant.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Kudos to you, you've said things I couldn't without being nasty about it. 
The part I didn't agree is how she's considered a willing participant..as he probably knows his advances are not welcome, but he's still being a douche just because she doesn't draw clear boundary aka verbalizes her intention (in fear of losing her 'nice-ness').


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## theflame (Apr 12, 2014)

My guess is some people condone rape? It's all about what someone really wants, not what both people want. I hope some people are trolling. To those who justify this creepy guy, why would you want to continuously pursue someone who clearly doesn't want you over and over until they say yes which they never will? Would you want to be with someone knowing they were with you out of pity if at all? Not only do you types who clearly behave like this creepy guy disrespect the person you are pursuing, you do realize, you are disrespecting yourself in not having the decency to walk away and finding someone who DOES want you.

The more time you waste on someone who doesn't want you, you could have been spending it chasing someone who does.


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## MindBomb (Jul 7, 2010)

Let's cut to the chase...

(1). The guy's a douche for not acknowledging your hints...most people would pick up on this. But...

(2). You need to take into consideration that some people either don't recognize or ignore your hints.










(3). While it's not you're fault that the guy is a douche, because he is not acknowledging your hints (which, in my opinion are too subtle in this case), you need to *very clearly* state your boundaries and then enforce them.









This is where you are falling short. All kinds of people are shit at _communicating_ personal boundaries and then enforcing them...especially kind people. I used to be the same way. Then we get pissed when people walk all over them. I've learned that this is our responsibility. If we do this, then we can feel very comfortable in escalating for help. We will also feel confident that it's not our communication problem, but the other person's respect problem.

We're on your side, but trying to help you for future "boundary-crossers." Trust me...there will be others because the world contains a...


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## thatdennis (Dec 16, 2013)

Only way to deal with this guy as I see it: SAY IT EXPLICITLY!

Well some guys could interpret what you say as something else. Let's say you said to him "I don't like you." He will think: "Oh I did something wrong today, I bet if I didn't do something that made her mad, she would like me again!" 

The only definite way to end it is to explicitly say it, "I don't like you. I don't want to be with you. Please leave me alone, I'm not interested now, in the future, no." No need to shout, just say it firmly and confidently. If he still chases after you after this, it's time to play the ignoring game again, or perhaps really get a restraining order (if you're in the U.S) since this would be psycho behavior.


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## VinnieBob (Mar 24, 2014)

you can block his texts and calls by going to your phone providers ''manage account'' web site


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## theflame (Apr 12, 2014)

I thought I had finally gotten rid of this creepy guy but I was wrong...he got a new number and texted me it yesterday after not having messaged me for five peaceful weeks. He changes numbers every few months, it's crazy. I ignored it since it was like an automatic message to everyone on his contact list saying he got a new number but if he tries to ask me to hang out again after all this time, for sure, I'll definitely be very firm.


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## Azereiah (Mar 25, 2014)

Not gonna bother with reading through the entire thread, so I'll just answer the OP's post directly.

He isn't taking hints. Stop hinting. Give him a concrete "No, I am not interested in you, and I would appreciate it if you stopped trying to contact me." and he's more likely to stop than if you continue to assume that he knows what he's doing.

You cannot assume people intuitively know anything. I had this problem with someone who was doing something that was, to me, *very bloody obviously bad*, but she had no idea that it had any effect on other people at all. She's now reeling it in since I finally gave up and talked about it.


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## theflame (Apr 12, 2014)

I officially had it. He called me today on his new number and left me a voice mail. 

I finally texted him, "Given some of the questionable things you have said to me why do you think I'd still want to hang out with you alone?" 

I gave him a play by play of where he went wrong and that he was pretty douche-y to still think I'd still wanna hang out with him even as friends after some of the things he's said. I told him he's a grown man so he should act like one. He's in his 30s acting like he's never tried to date someone before.

I said to him I've been clear since the beginning I wasn't interested then and I'm still not interested now. Either way he tries to misread things I told him I still said no in the end.

He never even gave me an ounce of my space to myself when I told him I didn't want to hang out with anyone until July. He kept pestering me every freaking week!


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## DeductiveReasoner (Feb 25, 2011)

I went with a guy (I barely knew) to get coffee. Casually. About midway through I realized that he thought it was a date. Whoops.

So we're hanging out in this coffee shop, and I notice a woman reading Fifty Shades of Grey on a sofa across the room. I make a light joke about her reading porn in public, and that the smut in it wasn't even that good (implying that I had read the book before).

And the kid straight up asks me if I masturbated while I read the book. I laugh it off and respond with something facetious, but at the end of the day I made it very clear that I wasn't interested in him.

But then he keeps texting. and texting. and then drunk texting me. And I keep telling him to shove off.

The final straw was when he commented on one of my facebook photos with a sexual innuendo. I went straight up bitch mode and made him look like an idiot in front of shittons of people (we have a lot of mutual friends). Now he just glares at me whenever he sees me on campus.

Another time, I had 3 people ask me for nude photos in a span of 2 days. I sent them all each other's phone number, telling them it was mine. Don't really know what happened after that, but I'm assuming there were a lot of awkward dick pics floating around. Good times. :laughing:

EDIT: Didn't read the whole thread, thought this was a place to share bizarre, creeper stories. Whoops. Hopefully some one will enjoy my input. OP yeah, stay the fuck away from that guy.


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## theflame (Apr 12, 2014)

DeductiveReasoner said:


> I went with a guy (I barely knew) to get coffee. Casually. About midway through I realized that he thought it was a date. Whoops.
> 
> So we're hanging out in this coffee shop, and I notice a woman reading Fifty Shades of Grey on a sofa across the room. I make a light joke about her reading porn in public, and that the smut in it wasn't even that good (implying that I had read the book before).
> 
> ...


I mean those guys have got to be real idiots to not notice their off putting behavior and what they say. I cussed him out tonight. It was the last straw. He keeps changing numbers so it's kind of pointless to block him when he just gets a new number every few months. The funny part is I accidentally sent some texts that were meant for him to my mom, LOL. Luckily it wasn't too bitchy. I hope I got my point across in three texts.

I pretty much told him how he screwed up the friendship by being a weirdo creep. He was cool at first and someone I could talk to like any other regular friend then when he wouldn't stop trying to hit on me any chance he got, he just became stalker mode. I even straight up told him...I was crying about another guy in front of you and you were talking about wanting to fuck me...I'm like really?! and on my birthday, too!


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Um if you really want him to go away and aren't secretly getting an ego boost or sexual thrill out of it, block him on Facebook and all internet sites, block his number, don't talk about him and tell him you really want to be left alone.

You can't jump from Im busy to restraining order.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

xisnotx said:


> women...i don't even know how to react to you all.
> 
> here's the thing, i know from experience that some women will think of me as creepy, and that some women won't. i'll be doing the exact same thing...acting in the exact same way...and to one woman it'll come off as creepy, but to the next...well, it got me laid.
> 
> ...


Both women and men can be this way, so try not to be sexist.

I personally expect to be chased but if I am not interested, I will say so, up front. I don't send mixed signals to guys I am not interested in. I will be cruel rather than lead someone on.

I absolutely detest people who claim they are being stalked when they never told the person to leave them alone.

The woman who it doesn't work with isn't attracted to you. Bottom line.

It has nothing to do with fickle. If she won't play the game, she is not interested.

You know I went round and round with a guy, but we had a.mutual sort of relationship and spent a great deal of time together. Sometimes he pursued me but I gave him encouragement.

If I tell a man to leave me alone, I.mean it.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Emerald Legend said:


> If I was on planet earth, and a woman, I wouldn't touch/hug my stalker and cry..or do anything else but run the fuk away, period.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah when I am really disgusted or afraid, the last thing I want to do is be friends or cry on his shoulder. She has sent mixed or no signals like crazy, and I have gathered from the thread, enjoys talking about it. Personally, I don't create threads about men who mean so little to me.

I see right through this shit because I know if I want a man to leave me alone, I don't hang with him.

I have even been in a situation where a guy pursued me a lot in the beginning (you know you want to talk to me, following me around, trying to get my attention) - and later, I mean MUCH later, when we had already established a connection and got into an argument, I pursued him, and he actually tried to say I was stalking him, even as he continued to make threads about me on a forum and I was basically mirroring his own past behavior.

Even recently I have been seeing someone off and on who calls over and over when I am mad at him.

People learn from relationship that some people respond to persistent behavior, especially if the.other party sends mixed signals.

If you really want to be left alone, let your actions match your words, make sure no means no...that's not "victim blaming" that is holding you accountable as an adult for setting boundaries with people who you truly do not want.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

thelostxin said:


> That's unfortunate that some people can't handle being just friends especially when I've been pretty clear I'm into one person only. He knew I have a hard time meeting people in town and I hate whenever a guy nearby is attracted to me. Most guys I've met always try to hook up with me and I'm sick of it when they don't contact me anymore if I don't give them what they want. I'm just looking for people to hang out with because it's so boring and most girls here are drama-ish.
> 
> For me, if they really valued a person, they'd at least try to keep a person in their lives as friends and not be an all or nothing deal and still pursue other people while maintaining a friendship. Although sometimes yeah, it can be too much still even being friends when you like the person a lot. They don't have to stop all contacts, but occasionally catch up.


Just stop. You aren't his friend, you are talking shit about him to strangers on the internet. 

Is this the first time this has ever happened to you and you would like to brag?

You seem to enjoy the attention. Just stop.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Emerald Legend said:


> How about letting him down..Sis, like actually uttering the words "Listen, we have no romantic future together, and it's not a good idea for us to be friends. We're two, too different people."
> 
> Being "kind" in letting him down? Telepathy isn't a human sense (last time I checked) and he'd take advantage of your not uttering the magic words stringed into the sentence - as I posted above- by pursuing you more, especially when both of you hugged/communication channel is still open. How does one 'force hug' without a person's consent? And why not letting him know physical intimacy is out of the question. If I try to hug a stranger or not-so-good friend, s/he would let me know..through body language or otherwise- like death-staring me to oblivion.
> 
> As for your hypothetical- I would raise my daughter to be straight forward and blunt..not a telepath-psychic who hugs her stalker and hope they somehow get the message that they're not appreciated in her life.


I agree with you 100 percent. If one of my sisters was going on this way, I would wonder what was up with the little girl act, pretending to be.victimized by a man she is spending time with and hasn't set clear boundaries with. I would wonder what was in it for her, like rides or drugs or money.

Part of being a feminist is setting clear boundaries with men.you are not sexually interested in. Being a woman instead of a child.

If my daughter was older than seventeen or eighteen and acting this way, I would wonder where I had failed as a mother.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

isingthebodyelectric said:


> Oh, please. God forbid a woman make any physical contact (crying isn't sexual or flirtatious, really though..really?) so that men don't take it as an invitation to fuck them.


Women have a responsibility to set clear boundaries with men they don't know well. Crying on a man is an act of emotional intimacy that should only be done with a good friend who you know isn't going to be inappropriate, or a relative, or a counselor.

You invite.intimacy by hugging and crying. It's certainly not something you do with ANYONE WHO YOU WISH TO SET BOUNDARIES WITH.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Emerald Legend said:


> Kudos to you, you've said things I couldn't without being nasty about it.
> The part I didn't agree is how she's considered a willing participant..as he probably knows his advances are not welcome, but he's still being a douche just because she doesn't draw clear boundary aka verbalizes her intention (in fear of losing her 'nice-ness').


She is a willing participant. When he randomly showed up at her house, she let him in. Though she claims she didn't want him there. She hugged him and cried on him, after letting him in her house, when she supposedly didn't want him there. She says things like I am busy rather than leave me alone I will never date you.

This is not socialization of women to be nice, either. Women back in the day even knew not to let creepers in the house and not cry in front of them and hug them. Maybe a high school girl might have this problem, but she learns from it.

She's an enabler who wants to be liked and enjoys the attention.

I know women who have actually been stalked, had their phone lines cut, beaten, raped. This guy is a pushy overamourous suitor. Just tell him to fuck off.

I can't stand when feminists defend this behavior because it's distinctly antifeminist, It infantalizes the woman, strips her of personal responsibility, and gives the wrong kinds of men the wrong ideas.

People don't do what you think they should do, so grow up and stop expecting them to.


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## Countryboy (Nov 29, 2013)

> Kudos to you, you've said things I couldn't without being nasty about it.
> The part I didn't agree is how she's considered a willing participant..as he probably knows his advances are not welcome, but he's still being a douche just because she doesn't draw clear boundary aka verbalizes her intention (in fear of losing her 'nice-ness').


The problem is that she does not have consistent boundaries. So it is easy for her to move her boundaries, and then claim the guy crossed her boundaries. To the guy, he is confused and bewildered...he is trying to respect what he thinks is the boundary line. One day, she is fine with him. The next day, she gives him an attitude. The next time he sees her, she is fine with him again.

From the guy's perspective, there is no rhyme or reason to her behavior towards him. The only logical explanation is that it is external issues giving her the attitude, and she is taking it out on the guy. He likes her, and is trying to be caring and supportive, so he puts up with her erratic behavior.

I speak from personal experience. I was involved with a girl for 4.5 years who had been severely sexually abused as child. It was like walking on eggshells around her. Without realizing it, everything I did was a trigger and she would have flashbacks. (It wasn't until the relationship had already fallen apart that she finally told me what happened to her, and what the real problems were.) One day, she could sit snuggled up against me on a couch. The next day, I could be sitting in a chair 3 or 4 feet away, and she would flip out because I was invading her personal space. The guy can bend over backwards trying to respect her boundaries, but when her boundaries are always moving, he is guaranteed to cross her boundaries.

After we split up, she would call me wanting to talk for several years. (I called her a couple times the first few years...she called me regularly over the next 7 years.) When she would call, she would want to talk for 2 or 3 hours, telling me every little detail of what was going on in her life. Then she would turn around and tell her friends that I was stalking her and obsessing over her. (I found out years later.)

The OP is a willing participant because she is not establishing consistent boundaries. The police encounter this with domestic situations fairly often. The girl claims harassment, and then keeps contacting the guy. The next thing you know, she is claiming harassment again.


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## theflame (Apr 12, 2014)

fourtines said:


> Um if you really want him to go away and aren't secretly getting an ego boost or sexual thrill out of it, block him on Facebook and all internet sites, block his number, don't talk about him and tell him you really want to be left alone.
> 
> You can't jump from Im busy to restraining order.


I told him yesterday to fuck off when he called. And no I'm not getting thrills out of being harassed by someone I'm not interested in. You forgot I ignored him for four months so yes, I can.


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## theflame (Apr 12, 2014)

Do not tell me I get thrills out of being harassed if you had seen my reply from yesterday I did say I was finally direct so he won't be bothering anymore. It didn't go from "I'm busy" to restraining order. It went from I'd like to be friends, he wouldn't respect that, so I kept telling him I was busy to ignoring him to finally telling him to get bent. If he bothers me again (hopefully he won't) I'll decide what to do then.


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## Countryboy (Nov 29, 2013)

> My guess is some people condone rape?


I think it depends on how you define rape. Some girls are willing participants at night, and then have regrets the next morning and cry rape.



> To those who justify this creepy guy, why would you want to continuously pursue someone who clearly doesn't want you over and over until they say yes which they never will?


The problem is that it is NOT clear when you are sending mixed signals. When you send mixed signals, it is clear as mud. Grow up girl. This is an adult relationship, and you need to start acting like an adult. Quit playing games with this boy, expecting him to be able to read your mind and know how to play your junior high games.



> I thought I had finally gotten rid of this creepy guy but I was wrong...he got a new number and texted me it yesterday after not having messaged me for five peaceful weeks. He changes numbers every few months, it's crazy. I ignored it since it was like an automatic message to everyone on his contact list saying he got a new number but if he tries to ask me to hang out again after all this time, for sure, I'll definitely be very firm.


If you're having problems confronting the guy, it may be easier to do what he did. Change your number and then only share it with the people you want to share it with.



> I officially had it. He called me today on his new number and left me a voice mail.
> 
> I finally texted him, "Given some of the questionable things you have said to me why do you think I'd still want to hang out with you alone?"
> 
> ...


Good for you!



> I mean those guys have got to be real idiots to not notice their off putting behavior and what they say.


Have you ever considered that the reason guys act like that is because it works for them? They've experienced success with that approach, so they keep using it.

Look at online dating. How many guys are just looking for sex, and come across as total jerks? If you read girls profiles, they complain about these guys all the time. But if you read advice to guys for online dating, the guys get told to send mass emails. Email 100 girls. 10 girls might reply, and of those 10, 2 or 3 might be willing to sleep with you on the first date. Even if the guy's approach fails 97% or 98% of the time, it is successful for 2% or 3% of the time, and the guy is satisfied with that level of success, so he keeps doing what works for him.



> Um if you really want him to go away and aren't secretly getting an ego boost or sexual thrill out of it, block him on Facebook and all internet sites,


This creepy guy is stalking me....but he's my Facebook friend. :laughing:


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