# Intp in a ti-si loop or an isfj .



## Fauling (Aug 13, 2020)

Hey everyone I've been trying to figure out if I'm an intp in a ti - si loop or an isfj for a year now . I think that I'm most probably an intp or an isfj because my friend and I came to that conclusion but couldn't figure out which one I am . I think that it's taking me this long because I cant really look at myself objectively and I have this thing where I start acting like the type I think I might be so that makes everything more confusing .
My friend came to that conclusion because they said they see ti and later said they see more si than ni . I didn't seem like an ne Dom nor an Fe Dom so they thought I'm either an isfj or an intp . I'm open to other type suggestions of course if you think I might be an estp please tell me . I've posted this some time ago but the discussion didn't garner much attention so I'm posting the answers again because I'm too lazy to answer these question for the tenth time .

1)Is there anything that may affect the way you answer the questions? For example, a stressful time, mental illness, medications, special life circumstances? Other useful information includes sex, age, and current state of mind.

Yes I have OCD and am on medication but the amount Im taking is small so yeah ….

2)What kind of person are you and why?

I'm a calm person in my opinion, I don't react much unless someone crosses a boundary. For example my brother asked if he could borrow my laptop, I said no but he went and took it and I got mad only because he didn't listen to me when I said no .
When there's construction work outside I don't pay any attention to it I don't care that much . My classmates used to point that out a lot . When we were talking about temperaments my classmates said that I am a phlegmatic person .
I would say I'm imaginative, maybe not very imaginative but I still consider myself an imaginative person . I have an imaginary world in my head with different characters with different personalities, the world in my head changes depending on how I'm feeling, if Im feeling extra into it I will start building a new world in my head . I'm very awkward, I don't know how to talk to people or how to keep a conversation going . I have to rehearse everything that I have to say in a social situation . For example when I was in school I didn't talk to anyone at all and didn't leave the classroom at all . Some people in my year didn't even know of my existence . Another example is when I had to go to a bank with my brother I would ask what to say , how to say it and stuff , I would rehearse it in my head until it got to the point where I asked him to talk for me .
I don't know how accurate this is but I think I have a thing for rationalising things . For example it was early in the morning and someone rang the bell of our apartment and my aunt got mad and started screaming when that person left . When she was screaming I thought well the person who rang the bell has a job and lives off that job so let them be . Also when I was in therapy my therapist asked me what I felt when my parents got divorced and I said I don't remember I guess I felt sad that's how you would feel when your parents get divorced right .

3)What about your personality most distinguishes you from everyone else?

I already wrote about this above . I'm very quiet, I don't talk much and will only talk a lot when there's something I'm excited about and that's not that often . I'm curious. When I want to learn about everything and anything . I have around 400 books on my iPad about various different subjects starting with math and physics and ending with sociology, psychology, philosophy and so on . Whether I come around to reading those books is a conversation for another day . Okay I haven't read the majority of them but I want to, it's the thought that counts right . Also I have to understand something deeply if I don't then I count it as if I don't know anything about that subject and wouldn't want anyone to know that I read a book about for example physics because they are going to ask questions and wouldn't be able to answer so I'd rather them not know that I read that book . For example I'm learning web dev and if I need to create something I look up how to create that thing but don't understand the process. I either don't attempt to do it thinking that I'll look up an explanation then do it or I do it than look up the explanation .

4) Do you think there are any differences between how you described yourself and how people actually perceive you? How do you think others would describe you? If there are any discrepancies between these two that you are aware of; do you know why exactly that is?

I asked around and got these: Smart, decisive, individualistic . I agree I'm quite individualistic. I'm always by myself and want to do everything alone. I don't want anyone's help in trying to figure something out or doing something. For example when I play billiards with my father he always tries to help me out but I get annoyed when he does it. I want to figure out how to do it myself .
If we are talking about smartness I'd say I'm not sure because first of all smart in what way you can be smart in various ways . I'm not that smart when it comes to social interactions . And I'm not particularly good at anything. I'd say I'm average at everything I do mostly because I don't put much time and effort into those things .
I wouldn't say I'm decisive, I'm quite the opposite . For example we are decorating our house right now and my father asked if I liked whatever was put in my room and I couldn't say anything. Maybe it's not because I'm indecisive but because I didn't care much . When I'm asked what I want most of the time I don't have an answer to that question . When I'm asked, if I want to go out I don't know most of the time I say I don't want to because I have to change and that's a hassle .

5) How do you react to new situations in your life? Can you describe an event in your life where you were in an unknown situation? How did you deal with it?

There are not many new situations in my life. I don't really like going out and to create an advantage you need to actually get out of the house, out of your comfort zone but I don't do that much . I would say I go out of my comfort zone more intellectually than physically. I try to learn unfamiliar subjects and so on .
I don't know how much of an unfamiliar situation this is but we were kind of lost in a big amusement park and we had a map. I took the map and led us to where we wanted to go . Another one when my friend was late for like an hour and I waited patiently didn't even get mad at them .

6) Describe your relationship to order and chaos. What do order and chaos mean to you? How do they manifest in your daily life?

What order are we talking about here I would distinguish two types of order and chaos. One a physical one and two a mental one . Well doesn't matter because I'm on the more orderly side . I don't like doing the chores and I don't do them most of the time but when someone else makes a mess I get annoyed. When the chair I placed a certain way is placed a different way I get annoyed .
Mentally I think I need some type of predictability I don't know, not sure . I like entertaining ideas and not doing them . For example asking my parents what uni major would suit me and my personality the best but knowing good and well that I most probably won't be going back to uni .
I dropped out of uni. I wanted all my grades to be perfect so I failed seven exams on purpose and couldn't bear the stress from it so I just dropped out on the same day that my father paid for the semester . I wanted to drop out even before that but my father said he doesn't feel well so I didn't .
I'd say I'm not that good with uncertainty could be because of my OCD .

7) You are given a reasonable budget and must buy and prepare a Holiday (Thanksgiving, Christmas, etc.) dinner. What are you thinking? What do you buy? What do you do?

I would buy a gift that would suit the person I'm buying the gift for. For example if I know that they collect certain things I would buy them that certain thing . My father for example buys something like a cute decoration but I'd prefer buying something personal, something that would make the person happy, not just grateful for the attention .

8)Do you see ideas as revolving around core concepts or as gateways to new ideas?

I'm not sure . Okay let's create an example . I'm studying web dev and for that it would be convenient for me to also learn some Photoshop . Gateway to a new idea here would be making a career with Photoshop making money by editing pics but to be honest this hasn't crossed my mind and I'm just concentrating on Photoshop helping me with web dev so it comes back to the core concept . Is this right, if it is then I see ideas revolving around core concepts if not then a better example is welcomed .

9) Do you find yourself to be obsessive about topics? Do you continually divine value from something you already understand or do you move on once you feel you have a fair enough understanding?

Oh I'm totally obsessive about topics . If I don't know everything about a topic I don't think that I'm good at it or have a fair knowledge of it . For example with mbti I've been into mbti for more than a year and I've been obsessing over my type a lot. It could be if I figure my type out I will move on but I honestly doubt that . Another example I'm reading Marx and while reading the book there were concepts that I didn't understand so I started looking up explanations on the internet and mull over these explanations until I completely comprehended them or remembered by heart . I don't have an exam I'm not obligated to but I feel the need to do that .

10) What do you like about traveling and what would you do if you could travel anywhere?

If there's an opportunity I'd love to travel the world . I've been to some foreign countries and almost every time we had a guide with us and to be quite honest I didn't like it with the guide . There's so much information dump at the end of the day that you don't remember anything from the trip . Everything comes and goes so quickly you can't even enjoy the architecture or the food and so on .
Tours with guides have their advantages of course for example entering museums and stuff can be made easier because of the connections of the tour agency and you have a strict schedule you need to follow so it makes you be more responsible with your time but we'll depends on the person I can see how someone can spend their dah at the hotel and not do anything even with a strict schedule unless you have to move cities after words but anyways . I prefer touring without a professional guide . Maybe someone who knows the city would be helpful but a professional guide who's in a hurry and spits everything they know about a building and you don't remember anything at the end of the day can wait .


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## aerstyu (Mar 3, 2021)

> I don't know how accurate this is but I think *I have a thing for rationalising things* . For example it was early in the morning and someone rang the bell of our apartment and my aunt got mad and started screaming when that person left . When she was screaming I thought well the person who rang the bell has a job and lives off that job so let them be .


Ti is going to want to make sense of things to fit into their internal framework and understanding of the situation.



> I agree I'm quite individualistic. I'm always by myself and *want to do everything alone. I don't want anyone's help in trying to figure something out or doing something*. For example when I play billiards with my father he always tries to help me out but I get annoyed when he does it. I want to figure out how to do it myself .
> *If we are talking about smartness I'd say I'm not sure because first of all smart in what way you can be smart in various ways* . I'm not that smart when it comes to social interactions . And I'm not particularly good at anything. I'd say I'm average at everything I do mostly because I don't put much time and effort into those things .


This alone sounds like low Fe (who would be more likely to be open to letting others help them or spend more time with people) and higher Ne (divergent thinking helps them see things in multiple perspectives more easily).



> What order are we talking about here* I would distinguish two types of order and chaos*. One a physical one and two a mental one . Well doesn't matter because I'm on the more orderly side . I don't like doing the chores and I don't do them most of the time but when someone else makes a mess I get annoyed. *When the chair I placed a certain way is placed a different way I get annoyed .*
> Mentally I think I need some type of predictability I don't know, not sure . *I like entertaining ideas and not doing them .*


You use divergent thinking here again by having two different takes on the question, which points towards Ne usage. Not needing to put ideas into action shows a preference of Ne over Se. I see Si as well with the chair scenario.



> I've been to some foreign countries and almost every time we had a guide with us and to be quite honest I didn't like it with the guide . *There's so much information dump at the end of the day that you don't remember anything from the trip . Everything comes and goes so quickly* you can't even enjoy the architecture or the food and so on .





> I prefer touring without a professional guide . Maybe someone who knows the city would be helpful but *a professional guide who's in a hurry and spits everything they know about a building and you don't remember anything at the end of the day can wait .*


Sounds like Ti to me. Your Ti is wanting to process all the information but you feel rushed to process that information when you're with the tour guide, so you find it frustrating.

Ne-Si axis for sure. I would guess INTP. Your Si is pretty well developed as well, but based on your answers I don't think you're an ISFJ.


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## goodvibe (Aug 23, 2013)

Fauling said:


> I don't want anyone's help in trying to figure something out or doing something


Something I noticed with heavy Ti users, esp ISTPs, INTPs...more so, than say ISFJ.



Fauling said:


> I have around 400 books on my iPad about various different subjects starting with math and physics and ending with sociology, psychology, philosophy and so on . *Whether I come around to reading those books is a conversation for another day*


Ne / Ti. You are not a linear thinker / learner and don't have a begin / finish objective in mind. Your curiosity, I assume, is what drives you more than purpose..but then you get bored with one thing, and then interested in another because you are seeing all the possibilities, and you are trying to tie it all together..."someday". lol.

I'm an INTP, and have hundreds of books I always say I am going to get to. I end up downloading more samples of other Kindle Ebooks that are somewhat related to something that caught my attention in the initial book. I end up researching each point in the book, which connects to another topic....and another book, and then becoming addicted to the epiphinies of finding new ground. Sound familiar?




aerstyu said:


> You use divergent thinking here again by having two different takes on the question, which points towards Ne usage. *Not needing to put ideas into action* shows a preference of Ne over Se. I see Si as well with the chair scenario.


exactly

Yeah, INTP is what I see here.


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## Fauling (Aug 13, 2020)

goodvibe said:


> Something I noticed with heavy Ti users, esp ISTPs, INTPs...more so, than say ISFJ.
> 
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> 
> ...


Tbh I'm not sure about not being a linear thinker and not caring about begin/finish . When I try learning something for a profession I set goals . Like I'm going to learn 10 lessons and finish . there will be 20 lessons left so I have to learn for two other days 10 lessons each day to complete the course . Also I'd set a timer in my mind and after studying for an hour I'd be finished . Isn't this caring about begin/finish . Because of these I thought I had te for a second . Also I set goals like these but take breaks very often . For example my current goal is to finish the course I'm studying this month I set a goal of learning 5 lessons each day to accomplish this and having two days off but then I was too lazy and thought I can do 10 lessons each day and took more days off . So I do quite a lot of planning in a way idk . Would an intp plan a lot .


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## goodvibe (Aug 23, 2013)

Fauling said:


> Tbh I'm not sure about not being a linear thinker and not caring about begin/finish . *When I try learning something for a profession I set goals* . Like I'm going to learn 10 lessons and finish . there will be 20 lessons left so I have to learn for two other days 10 lessons each day to complete the course . Also I'd set a timer in my mind and after studying for an hour I'd be finished . Isn't this caring about begin/finish . Because of these I thought I had te for a second . Also I set goals like these but take breaks very often . For example my current goal is to finish the course I'm studying this month I set a goal of learning 5 lessons each day to accomplish this and having two days off but then I was too lazy and thought I can do 10 lessons each day and took more days off . So I do quite a lot of planning in a way idk . Would an intp plan a lot .


For a profession, sure...that is like, necessary and you are enacting some discipline because there will be consequences if not. When I am in a work or study environment, I am a different person and become disciplined or orderly because I have limited time, and there are consequences for not getting stuff done orderly. I do the best I can.

However, I still need to understand the why and how before it sinks in, and I will take extra time (if available) to look at things from different angles. If someone were to try and train me (esp a Te user), I would have to tell them to slow it down so I have time to process the information and think it through. I need context.






Fauling said:


> I have around 400 books on my iPad about various different subjects starting with math and physics and ending with sociology, psychology, philosophy and so on . Whether I come around to reading those books is a conversation for another day





Fauling said:


> I don't want anyone's help in trying to figure something out or doing something. For example when I play billiards with my father he always tries to help me out but I get annoyed when he does it. I want to figure out how to do it myself .





Fauling said:


> Also* I have to* understand something *deeply* if I don't then I count it as if I don't know anything about that subject and *wouldn't want anyone to know that I read a book about* for example physics because they are going to ask questions and wouldn't be able to answer so I'd rather them not know that I read that book . For example I'm learning web dev and if I need to create something I look up how to create that thing *but don't understand the process*. I either don't attempt to do it thinking that I'll look up an explanation then do it or I do it than look up the explanation .


You even say you need to understand the process...you state over and over that you don't just learn the gist of something and move on with it, and that you like to figure things out on your own....and that you need depth of understanding to even feel secure in answering questions or showing others that you read a book. 

All of this sounds like type 5 enneagram to me BTW. 



Fauling said:


> I've been to some foreign countries and almost every time we had a guide with us and to be quite honest I didn't like it with the guide . There's *so much information dump* at the end of the day that *you don't remember anything* from the trip .


 So, this would likely be your experience in class or at a job (training,etc). Your brain (Ti) needs to process, and your Ne( curiosity) likes to stop and say, what about this, or what about that? This is why NTPs love playing devil's advocate BTW.


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## Fauling (Aug 13, 2020)

goodvibe said:


> For a profession, sure...that is like, necessary and you are enacting some discipline because there will be consequences if not. When I am in a work or study environment, I am a different person and become disciplined or orderly because I have limited time, and there are consequences for not getting stuff done orderly. I do the best I can.
> 
> However, I still need to understand the why and how before it sinks in, and I will take extra time (if available) to look at things from different angles. If someone were to try and train me (esp a Te user), I would have to tell them to slow it down so I have time to process the information and think it through. I need context.
> 
> ...


Do you relate to ne being scattered and spontaneous . Do you relate to ne being very open to new ideas and change or changing worldviews often . Trying out a lot of things for the sake of it . Being ready to abandon their old life and start a new life elsewhere . Fantasizing about writing a book then becoming the next big author then having all the glory in the world and so on .
Because I've been going through different posts and tbh I can't really relate to any of these I'm not spontaneous, I don't change worldviews often I would even say I changed them several years ago and am consistent now . I wouldn't abandon my current life to start a new life somewhere new . When offered an idea I don't accept it right away I have to think about it .
Tbh I thought I was more of an isfj . I can't relate to any of the ne descriptions on the internet not the professional articles and not the Tumblr blog ones which were made by high ne users . 
Could that be possible for an intp to not relate to ne descriptions .


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## goodvibe (Aug 23, 2013)

Fauling said:


> Do you relate to ne being scattered and spontaneous


As an INTP, I am one of the least spontaneous people you can meet. I am flexible in my routine (less stress), but not spontaneous (stress). But, I would say I am scatterbrained and disorderly, at times because I am in my own head and don't prioritize my surroundings so much, but I am not sure if that is what you mean.



Fauling said:


> Do you relate to ne being very open to new ideas and change or changing worldviews often


No. I love it when someone can change my mind if they provide me the info I didn't have before. That rarely ever happens because I research the living crap out of everything. I start out as very open-minded (if I know nothing on a topic) and then become rigid until someone can prove to me with superior logic that I am wrong. INTPs are known to be stubborn because they take years building up their own internal framework.

Now INTPS may be uncertain in drawing a final conclusion, play devil's advocate, and tend to leave things that are unprovable open. Over time they become more certain of what is not than what is, and eliminate all possibilities that can't exist. This is not bending or changing worldviews though, it is just a cynical approach to things. This is why INTPs make great scientists and researchers. They like to qualify things and are parenthetical in their communication styles. Although it is possible, INTPs don't bend as easily to peer pressure, or the tribe, etc. Those with Fe higher in their stack (XSFJ) are more likely to adapt to the consensus of others because they greatly value group harmony. Those with Ne above Ti are less likely to hold strong to a set of ideas. Ti does not seek to be overturned because it is so rigorous.




Fauling said:


> Trying out a lot of things for the sake of it . Being ready to abandon their old life and start a new life elsewhere . Fantasizing about writing a book then becoming the next big author then having all the glory in the world and so on .


I dip my toes for the sake of it, but I don't build my life around this new thing. INTPs are some of the least ambitious, going to take over the world types out there...the energy is just not there and it really isn't appealing to be the center of attention, and have lots of stress that comes with it. I am speaking from experience.



Fauling said:


> Being ready to abandon their old life and start a new life elsewhere .


No, that is not INTP-like at all, unless they are in their young 20s and graduate from college all fresh — leaving behind their old life of living with their parents. I think you are thinking of more of the Ennegram type 7 personalities that have either Se or Ne as their dominant function, and they are seeking new experiences and adventure.



Fauling said:


> When offered an idea I don't accept it right away I have to think about it .


That is exactly what I do. I always sleep on it. I am one of the slowest people to actually decide on something. Not deciding can also be a matter of being open-minded (Ne), seeing all of the possibilities, and not wanting to settle on just one, or Ti (processing, deconstructing, analyzing) Not taking action on actually DOING something is the epitome of Ti/Ne. It is one of the greatest weaknesses, also can be a strength, depending on how you look at it.




Fauling said:


> Tbh I thought I was more of an isfj . I can't relate to any of the ne descriptions on the internet not the professional articles and not the *Tumblr blog *ones which were made by high ne users .
> Could that be possible for an intp to not relate to ne descriptions .


Tumblr blogs might be more of the ENXP types, and shitposting meme-type stuff, less serious in general.

Anyway, ISFJ and INTP share the same functions (are often mistyped) so that would be the second-best guess. You do give off an ISFJ vibe at times (being honest) so maybe you are convincing me otherwise. Perhaps you are an ISFJ enneagram type 5 and come across much more INTP-like.

But, maybe look at yourself and ask yourself questions about how much of a routine person you are. If you like to keep your daily schedule and habits, more or less routine and not flexible, and open, and also seek or require more guidance and direction from others, in general, then perhaps you are an Si dom.

Maybe take one of these tests and post the results. Although, not ideal...I find it to be good at one thing, and that is determining whether the sensing is above or below the intuition. If your sensing is above the intuition, then you are most likely an ISFJ. I am also interested in finding out how it comes out. Also, you may want to take an enneagram test or three, if you have not already.



Keys 2 Cognition - Cognitive Processes


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## Fauling (Aug 13, 2020)

goodvibe said:


> As an INTP, I am one of the least spontaneous people you can meet. I am flexible in my routine (less stress), but not spontaneous (stress). But, I would say I am scatterbrained and disorderly, at times because I am in my own head and don't prioritize my surroundings so much, but I am not sure if that is what you mean.
> 
> 
> No. I love it when someone can change my mind if they provide me the info I didn't have before. That rarely ever happens because I research the living crap out of everything. I start out as very open-minded (if I know nothing on a topic) and then become rigid until someone can prove to me with superior logic that I am wrong. INTPs are known to be stubborn because they take years building up their own internal framework.
> ...


I've tried to have a daily routine multiple times like scheduling what I have to do and when packing my days with activities but I never followed through . I could go with the packed schedule maybe one day and then abandon the idea . The only schedule I have is that I wake up, shower, eat, depending on the mood I might do some studying then the rest of the day is free hours I do just whatever I want or whatever comes to mind . 

I never or rarely do anything I might fantasize about doing it even studying and not actually doing it . I want to do it for example reading I open the book read two lines then I close it and go to twitter I don't know if it's laziness or lack of concentration or maybe that I'm not strict with myself . I was planning on reading tons of books this month I read one book in two three days and haven't finished a book since . I have like multiple unfinished books and I keep adding more books to the list . I have like six unfinished books that I'm kinda reading currently .

About needing guidance and direction from others . When I was younger I used to read quite a lot and I've decided that I was going to become someone of the X profession my parents didn't have any say in it I just picked my own career path while very young and I got into uni then I dropped out but yeah doesn't matter . I was arguing with someone about receiving advice from someone older and using that advice. I was saying that basing your life on someone else's experiences is just dumb in my opinion . If they played with a yoyo and hurt themselves and their conclusion becomes don't play with yoyos you will hurt yourself it won't be very smart to take that advice and run with it because if you yourself experienced it you might've not hated the yoyo even if you hurt yourself people are different . The person argued that the world doesn't change and the basic things are always going to be the same . I didn't like the world doesn't change part so I tried to prove to them that the world does indeed change . I asked them what their definition of the world is they said everything that surrounds us is the world and I said do you agree that everything that surrounds us was created by men . They said yes . I said humans change that would mean their creations change and that would mean that the world changes as well it improves improvement is change as well . They said okay but the basic things are always going to be the same like in math two plus two is four . I said the world isn't science is it, that means that its components and basics aren't going to be absolute if they are not absolute that means that there's no one true advice that someone will give you it's just a matter of perspective .

This argument might be helpful to determine my type or at least I'm rationalising my rambling .

Also I want to find out why I'm so interested in figuring out my type . I came to a conclusion that I don't really have a personality(if we say that not having a personality is an option and not impossible if not then I mean something like not knowing myself well) so I want to use an external framework to define myself .
I could be interested in figuring out my type because it would help determine my strengths and weaknesse which would lead to better self development if I found out my weaknesses I would work on them .
Or maybe I'm not good at figuring out people so I'm relying on theories like this to categorize them and make it simpler for me .
Or perhaps I need to feel good about myself so when I see praise for a certain type I feel better about myself .
Or maybe it's a status quo thing where I want to feel superior in some aspect for example if I was an enfj I would be amazing at dealing with people .
Or maybe I realize subconsciously that I can implement this knowledge in a business .
Maybe I want to use my type to justify some shortcomings .
Could be that it's just fun . If it's fun then what is fun about it . Is it understanding people better is it understanding yourself better is it perhaps the community or maybe it's just a subject that I want to dive deep into and spend my time understanding . But why mbti maybe because it's a tool to figure people out and if I'm bad at it it would be compelling for me to understand it deeply so it would be easier to communicate and find common ground with people .
Maybe I'm just lazy and instead of developing for example problem solving I would just say I'm an intp so I'm good at problem solving so I don't have to improve anything .
Maybe I realize that I could use mbti as a tool to determine my future profession .
I don't know which one it is but I'm very invested in personality theories and want to find my type .
Also it could be because I'm an infp actually and I'm constantly searching for my true self .
Could I be an infp . It's certainly a possibility .

I also do this thing where I try to predict things . For example I want to predict when my favourite group is releasing new music I go back and try to find a pattern in their older releases for example if they have a tour coming up and if in the past years they always released a song before going on a tour I expect them to release a new song . Isn't this si .

I will take the test and post it in this thread .


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## Fauling (Aug 13, 2020)

goodvibe said:


> As an INTP, I am one of the least spontaneous people you can meet. I am flexible in my routine (less stress), but not spontaneous (stress). But, I would say I am scatterbrained and disorderly, at times because I am in my own head and don't prioritize my surroundings so much, but I am not sure if that is what you mean.
> 
> 
> No. I love it when someone can change my mind if they provide me the info I didn't have before. That rarely ever happens because I research the living crap out of everything. I start out as very open-minded (if I know nothing on a topic) and then become rigid until someone can prove to me with superior logic that I am wrong. INTPs are known to be stubborn because they take years building up their own internal framework.
> ...


I've taken this test before one year ago I scored enfj then infj a while ago I was obsessed with it so I scored infp several times and I scored infp this time as well .









This is another one I have taken a while ago .


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## Fauling (Aug 13, 2020)

goodvibe said:


> As an INTP, I am one of the least spontaneous people you can meet. I am flexible in my routine (less stress), but not spontaneous (stress). But, I would say I am scatterbrained and disorderly, at times because I am in my own head and don't prioritize my surroundings so much, but I am not sure if that is what you mean.
> 
> 
> No. I love it when someone can change my mind if they provide me the info I didn't have before. That rarely ever happens because I research the living crap out of everything. I start out as very open-minded (if I know nothing on a topic) and then become rigid until someone can prove to me with superior logic that I am wrong. INTPs are known to be stubborn because they take years building up their own internal framework.
> ...


The enneagram results I've taken enneagram tests before and I've gotten 6,5,2 I think I've gotten 4 as well but I'm not sure . The friend I've talked about thought I was either a 9 or a 6 .









Another one .









I did some research about the types their fears combinations with mbti types I saw quite a few people being skeptical of a 5w6 isfj they said the isfj is probably a 6w5 and mistyped as a 5w6 . I did more research and I guess the basic difference is that 6w5s are more reliant on people to figure something out while 5w6 rely on their own understanding . I asked my father which one I am and he said that one of my biggest advantages is that I don't rely on people and am individualistic . Could me asking my father be a 6 thing relying on others for an answer on the other hand it wasn't something he figured out for me it was more of an observation it's like asking someone where a store is located . I used to relate to 6 s anxiety when I was going through some stuff but now I don't .
Oh btw I almost forgot what made you think that I sound like an isfj sometimes . 
If I'm an intp I'm probably in a ti si loop because there seems to be no ne( I say this because I personally can't relate to ne descriptions and that to me is a giveaway that I might not be a high ne user. Even though it might just be my perception of myself and maybe I'm not like that perception in reality maybe I don't see the ne but it's there maybe I've put myself in a box or maybe my state of mind which is not very healthy currently makes me think that way). If I'm an isfj then my ti is probably better than the stereotype of an isfj . 
Also the user that replied first said something about divergent thinking if they are right then maybe my ne isn't nowhere to be found .


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## Fauling (Aug 13, 2020)

aerstyu said:


> Ti is going to want to make sense of things to fit into their internal framework and understanding of the situation.
> 
> 
> This alone sounds like low Fe (who would be more likely to be open to letting others help them or spend more time with people) and higher Ne (divergent thinking helps them see things in multiple perspectives more easily).
> ...


Thanks for replying . I can't really relate to ne descriptions online doesn't that most probably mean that my ne is low .


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## aerstyu (Mar 3, 2021)

Fauling said:


> Thanks for replying . I can't really relate to ne descriptions online doesn't that most probably mean that my ne is low .


It depends on what kind of descriptions you're reading. If it's just stereotypes, those are not necessarily accurate. I don't necessarily relate to the extremely energetic, sports junkie stereotypes of Se users either.

Ne might be best explained when compared to Ni. Ne is divergent while Ni is convergent. When presented with something, Ne is likely to come up with multiple possibilities of what it could be, while Ni is more likely to come up with a single, powerful one.

Based on your enneagram results, INTP is pretty likely. Note though that type 5 is a common mistype (I've mistyped myself as one before), but it is a pretty common enneagram type in Ti and Ni doms. I don't think ISFJ type 5 is a very common combination. Also, this is one of my personal favorite enneagram tests because it primarily types by fears and desires, rather than behaviors: Enneagram Assessment - Your Enneagram Coach


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## Fauling (Aug 13, 2020)

aerstyu said:


> It depends on what kind of descriptions you're reading. If it's just stereotypes, those are not necessarily accurate. I don't necessarily relate to the extremely energetic, sports junkie stereotypes of Se users either.
> 
> Ne might be best explained when compared to Ni. Ne is divergent while Ni is convergent. When presented with something, Ne is likely to come up with multiple possibilities of what it could be, while Ni is more likely to come up with a single, powerful one.
> 
> Based on your enneagram results, INTP is pretty likely. Note though that type 5 is a common mistype (I've mistyped myself as one before), but it is a pretty common enneagram type in Ti and Ni doms. I don't think ISFJ type 5 is a very common combination. Also, this is one of my personal favorite enneagram tests because it primarily types by fears and desires, rather than behaviors: Enneagram Assessment - Your Enneagram Coach


I got 5 again . I will not just run with these results I'll try researching more because I'm not sure if I'm a 5 .


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## aerstyu (Mar 3, 2021)

Fauling said:


> I got 5 again . I will not just run with these results I'll try researching more because I'm not sure if I'm a 5 .
> 
> View attachment 879343


Sure, no test is perfectly accurate. I used to consistently score 5s before too, but turns out I'm not a 5.

Looking at your cognitive functions test results your Fe seems too low to be an ISFJ, but again no test is perfectly accurate.


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## Fauling (Aug 13, 2020)

aerstyu said:


> Sure, no test is perfectly accurate. I used to consistently score 5s before too, but turns out I'm not a 5.
> 
> Looking at your cognitive functions test results your Fe seems too low to be an ISFJ, but again no test is perfectly accurate.


I don't know how to put this into words so it's understandable I don't know what to call it maybe manipulation I feel like I manipulated the tests when I thought and wanted to be an infj a year ago and got infj or enfj on this test . When I'm reading the questions I think about what functions they represent at this point I don't even think I just read the question and know what it's intended for and lately I've been trying to be more fair( not really but I don't know how else to put it ) and for example not answer positevily to the intuition questions or if I answered positevily to too many intuition questions I will answer positevily to a sensing question to balance it out . So I don't think I'm a reliable test taker only if I don't know anything about the theory then I wouldn't know what the questions are asking and what result I would get if I answered a certain way to a certain question .

Could you please go through my previous posts in this thread and see what else you can analyse what other conclusions you can draw from them if it's not a hassle of course .


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## aerstyu (Mar 3, 2021)

Fauling said:


> Tbh I'm not sure about not being a linear thinker and not caring about begin/finish . *When I try learning something for a profession I set goals* . Like I'm going to learn 10 lessons and finish . there will be 20 lessons left so I have to learn for two other days 10 lessons each day to complete the course . Also I'd set a timer in my mind and after studying for an hour I'd be finished . Isn't this caring about begin/finish . Because of these I thought I had te for a second . Also I set goals like these but take breaks very often . For example my current goal is to finish the course I'm studying this month I set a goal of learning 5 lessons each day to accomplish this and having two days off but then I was too lazy and thought I can do 10 lessons each day and took more days off . So I do quite a lot of planning in a way idk . Would an intp plan a lot .


Even as a Ti-dom I do this. Ti doesn't mean you don't _care_ about the outcome/result, in fact Ti users do care about it. It's just that Ti users find it easier to achieve a goal when they understand the process first. I plan stuff out like this to achieve my goals too.



Fauling said:


> Do you relate to ne being scattered and spontaneous . Do you relate to ne being very open to new ideas and change or changing worldviews often . Trying out a lot of things for the sake of it . Being ready to abandon their old life and start a new life elsewhere . Fantasizing about writing a book then becoming the next big author then having all the glory in the world and so on .
> Because I've been going through different posts and tbh I can't really relate to any of these I'm not spontaneous, *I don't change worldviews often I would even say I changed them several years ago and am consistent now* . I wouldn't abandon my current life to start a new life somewhere new . When offered an idea I don't accept it right away I have to think about it .
> Tbh I thought I was more of an isfj . I can't relate to any of the ne descriptions on the internet not the professional articles and not the Tumblr blog ones which were made by high ne users .
> Could that be possible for an intp to not relate to ne descriptions .


Spontaneous is not necessarily Ne, though it is more common among XXXPs than XXXJs.

The bolded part is likely your Ti consolidating information and feeling confident with it. It fits well into your understanding of the world and if presented with new information that doesn't make sense, you don't want to change your understanding. I can be stubborn with logic that doesn't fit in with my inner understanding as well. It's like goodvibe explained here:


goodvibe said:


> and then become rigid until someone can prove to me with superior logic that I am wrong. INTPs are known to be stubborn because they take years building up their own internal framework.


I'm not an INTP so I can't confirm how accurate some of the Ne traits you listed are, so I would go with what goodvibe, an INTP, said.



Fauling said:


> *I've tried to have a daily routine multiple times like scheduling what I have to do and when packing my days with activities but I never followed through* . I could go with the packed schedule maybe one day and then abandon the idea . The only schedule I have is that I wake up, shower, eat, depending on the mood I might do some studying then the rest of the day is free hours I do just whatever I want or whatever comes to mind .


From what I've seen, SJs are generally good at following through with routines. I have tried to set up routines for myself before too and it didn't work out. This is probably an XXXP thing.



> *I never or rarely do anything I might fantasize about doing it even studying and not actually doing it . I want to do it for example reading I open the book read two lines then I close it and go to twitter I don't know if it's laziness or lack of concentration or maybe that I'm not strict with myself .* I was planning on reading tons of books this month I read one book in two three days and haven't finished a book since . I have like multiple unfinished books and I keep adding more books to the list . I have like six unfinished books that I'm kinda reading currently .


Strong Te would likely be more goal driven and find it easier to put aside other things to do what they need to in order to reach those desired outcomes. This again sounds like a very XXXP trait.



> I also do this thing where I try to predict things . For example I want to predict when my favourite group is releasing new music I go back and try to find a pattern in their older releases for example if they have a tour coming up and if in the past years they always released a song before going on a tour I expect them to release a new song . Isn't this si .


INTPs also have Si in their stack. The situation you described here sounds very Ne-Si to me. Trying to figure out patterns based on past years, so taking Si and using Ne to build upon it.



Fauling said:


> I did some research about the types their fears combinations with mbti types I saw quite a few people being skeptical of a 5w6 isfj they said the isfj is probably a 6w5 and mistyped as a 5w6 . I did more research and I guess the basic difference is that 6w5s are more reliant on people to figure something out while 5w6 rely on their own understanding . *I asked my father which one I am and he said that one of my biggest advantages is that I don't rely on people and am individualistic . Could me asking my father be a 6 thing relying on others for an answer on the other hand it wasn't something he figured out for me it was more of an observation it's like asking someone where a store is located .*


I don't necessarily think this is a 6 thing. If I can't figure something out on my own I may also ask someone I'm close to for input, and I usually score moderately low for type 6.

If you think you might be a 5w6 or 6w5 you might want to look into the core fears and desires. Sometimes you might not even realize what those are until you're forced into a situation where they come into play.


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## Fauling (Aug 13, 2020)

aerstyu said:


> Even as a Ti-dom I do this. Ti doesn't mean you don't _care_ about the outcome/result, in fact Ti users do care about it. It's just that Ti users find it easier to achieve a goal when they understand the process first. I plan stuff out like this to achieve my goals too.
> 
> 
> Spontaneous is not necessarily Ne, though it is more common among XXXPs than XXXJs.
> ...


Thank you .


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## goodvibe (Aug 23, 2013)

Fauling said:


> Also it could be because I'm an infp actually and I'm constantly searching for my true self .
> Could I be an infp . It's certainly a possibility .


Anything is possible, and only you will know the answers to that question. I think there are plenty of non fi users here searching for their true selves, so it is not limited to Fi as a function.

For myself, as an INTP, I care more about using MBTI to figure out why the world is always so messed up. I did not know, or care much about MBTI when I was young...perhaps because I was not introspective, I am not sure. Or maybe because I was satisfied with the INTJ results (it was close enough), that I cared no more.

About the cognitive test results, I would say that you seem much more Ti than Fi to me, but I am only going on your answers and the way your present yourself. Actually, I see more Fe than Fi in you, but prob not enough to be an ISFJ. 

Like I mentioned before, I think the function stack tests are good at determining if you are S or N, but very limited in other ways. For instance, everyone seems to have these super high Fi results recently. Maybe, it's the isolation we are dealing with throwing things off, but who knows. 

I think the tests seem to have a hard time distinguishing btwn Ti/Fe and Fi/ Te, much more so than Fe vs Fi. For instance, the tests may ask about personal values, (which can come from Ti/Fe or Fi/ Te) and then automatically throw it into the bucket of Fi. And I think this is a problem in the MBTI community, and intellectually there is a lot of wrongness about what Fi and Ti is, but anyway, I digress. 

Ok, so an INTP function stack is Ti, Ne, Si, Fe...so, really we are talking a difference of 2nd slot Ne vs 3rd slot Si. So, I don't know...I think that fits better with your scores than ISFJ, with Si dominant function and auxillary Fe. You don't quite seem to be an Si dom to me. Fe (or feeling overall) does appear as though could be higher than your average INTP, but I don't pay as much attention to the functions after the first two because I take the position that they sort of jump around depending on age and environment. 




Fauling said:


> When I'm reading the questions I think about what functions they represent at this point I don't even think I just read the question and know what it's intended for and lately I've been trying to be more fair( not really but I don't know how else to put it ) and for example not answer positevily to the intuition questions or if I answered positevily to too many intuition questions I will answer positevily to a sensing question to balance it ou


Yeah, I don't think the test results are going to be very accurate like that. That is why you should keep researching cognitive functions. 

I think you should check out these 2 videos and maybe you will reach that light bulb moment of clarity. Here, you have an INFJ and ENFP explain themselves, so they have opposite functions. So , there are such clear differences btwn the 2, plus they go into depth more than just about anyone else I see.


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## Fauling (Aug 13, 2020)

aerstyu said:


> Even as a Ti-dom I do this. Ti doesn't mean you don't _care_ about the outcome/result, in fact Ti users do care about it. It's just that Ti users find it easier to achieve a goal when they understand the process first. I plan stuff out like this to achieve my goals too.
> 
> 
> Spontaneous is not necessarily Ne, though it is more common among XXXPs than XXXJs.
> ...


Okay so I've been doing research about the enneagram types out of all 9 I came to a conclusion that 1,3,5,6,9 have some qualities that potentially could suit me . So I did more research and eliminated 1 and 3 and potentially 6 and now I'm stuck between 5 and 9 . I read a misidentification post about 9s misidentifying themselves as 5s and in there it said that 9s don't have strong sense of their own personality so they might have a difficulty figuring out which type they are . It's been a recent realization for me that I don't know myself well so I identify with a type that I think I am at that point in time even if I'm not actually that type . This also could be false I'm just trying to explain why it's been so hard for me to figure out my mbti type .

That post also said that 9s don't really care about details . They avoid confrontation and problems when they arise while 5s think about problems create problems on top of those problems . 9s tend to simplify while 5s complicate . Also it said that when 9s come up with a conclusion or a solution for a problem they tend to say impractical things like world peace can be created if people love each other while 5s will do a lot of research and come up with more elaborate plan to establish world peace .

Also I don't know if I'm overthinking this but in one of the posts on that website where they were comparing 6s and 5s they said that 5s are not practical while 6s are 5s just entertain ideas for the sake of entertaining them and they want to fuel their inner world with those ideas . While they said in the 9 Vs 5 post that 5s are find elaborative and more practical solutions because thinking of establishing world peace and trying to come up with an idea that would actually work is practical right so I found it a little contradictory . I might be misunderstanding or misinterpreting something though .

That article also said that 9s would not want to figure their type out because it gives them anxiety . Maintaining undefined understanding of themselves thus feeling comfortable and not threatened or anxious is more important to them than acquiring deep insights .

Now I don't know if I relate to the last few paragraphs .

I have this imaginary world in my head with characters and stuff and every new information I acquire I implement it in that world . Could this be a 5 thing or a 9 thing .
I relate to 9s having an imaginary world in their heads and detaching from reality and spending time there a lot . When I was in school I never paid attention to class and was just dreaming about stuff .

But I don't relate to being non confrontational and being someone who avoids their problems for comfort . A year ago I wasn't in a good place mentally so when my friend would suggest that I could be a different type I would get all anxious cry and so on but I never stopped asking about my type and continued being uncomfortable while researching .

I don't relate to 5s seeing the world as a threat. At least consciously I don't think I view the world as a threat but I might subconsciously .
I'm not a pessimist like this websites descriptions of 5s suggest . I don't know if I'm suspicious of people .

It says here that 9s don't consider the consequences of their actions which I don't really relate to . For example just this morning a friend was sitting in the kitchen thinking about something and I needed the kitchen for myself and I knew that they drink coffee every morning in the other room so I offered to make coffee for them expecting that they'd leave the room and drink the coffee at their usual place but my plan failed and they didn't leave the kitchen .(yes I did realize that there was a possibility of them not leaving but I still tried ).


I also decline all the offers to go outside or engage in traditional things like building friendships and so on because I feel like I don't have the energy for that or so I tell myself . I don't engage in stuff like that . I read more and apparently this is a 9 thing .


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## Fauling (Aug 13, 2020)

goodvibe said:


> Anything is possible, and only you will know the answers to that question. I think there are plenty of non fi users here searching for their true selves, so it is not limited to Fi as a function.
> 
> For myself, as an INTP, I care more about using MBTI to figure out why the world is always so messed up. I did not know, or care much about MBTI when I was young...perhaps because I was not introspective, I am not sure. Or maybe because I was satisfied with the INTJ results (it was close enough), that I cared no more.
> 
> ...


Thank you .


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## aerstyu (Mar 3, 2021)

> That post also said that 9s don't really care about details . They avoid confrontation and problems when they arise while 5s think about problems create problems on top of those problems . 9s tend to simplify while 5s complicate . Also it said that when 9s come up with a conclusion or a solution for a problem they tend to say impractical things like world peace can be created if people love each other while 5s will do a lot of research and come up with more elaborate plan to establish world peace .


Correct, 9s tend to avoid confrontation. Though as a type 9 myself (and this may be due to my 8-wing), if I _do_ get confronted, I don't like to back down.

As a type 9 I can complicate some things too. Also, I don't think 9s are necessarily impractical. In fact I often have to play "realist" when I'm working with others who have bizarre ideas and bring them back down to earth.



> Also I don't know if I'm overthinking this but in one of the posts on that website where they were comparing 6s and 5s they said that 5s are not practical while 6s are 5s just entertain ideas for the sake of entertaining them and they want to fuel their inner world with those ideas . While they said in the 9 Vs 5 post that 5s are find elaborative and more practical solutions because thinking of establishing world peace and trying to come up with an idea that would actually work is practical right so I found it a little contradictory . I might be misunderstanding or misinterpreting something though .


5s find the world as intrusive, 6s find the world as potential for danger. Practicality is not necessarily attributed to enneagram.



> That article also said that 9s would not want to figure their type out because it gives them anxiety . Maintaining undefined understanding of themselves thus feeling comfortable and not threatened or anxious is more important to them than acquiring deep insights .


Not really - I spent months trying to figure out my type, and even now I'm constantly re-evaluating it. Type 9s are not necessarily afraid of their identity.



> I have this imaginary world in my head with characters and stuff and every new information I acquire I implement it in that world . Could this be a 5 thing or a 9 thing .
> I relate to 9s having an imaginary world in their heads and detaching from reality and spending time there a lot . When I was in school I never paid attention to class and was just dreaming about stuff .


Imaginary worlds are not necessarily attributed to type either, though it is probably more common in certain types, maybe 5, 4, and 9.



> It says here that 9s don't consider the consequences of their actions which I don't really relate to . For example just this morning a friend was sitting in the kitchen thinking about something and I needed the kitchen for myself and I knew that they drink coffee every morning in the other room so I offered to make coffee for them expecting that they'd leave the room and drink the coffee at their usual place but my plan failed and they didn't leave the kitchen .(yes I did realize that there was a possibility of them not leaving but I still tried ).


As a 9 I do try consider the consequences of my actions, especially around people I don't know well. Only when I become really angry will I think less about the consequences for my actions. I am not sure that scenario really describes the description though. This description is more like "you act, then think." For example, someone might say something hurtful to someone else and not realize it until it's too late. Though again this is not necessarily true in 9s.



> I also decline all the offers to go outside or engage in traditional things like building friendships and so on because I feel like I don't have the energy for that or so I tell myself . I don't engage in stuff like that . I read more and apparently this is a 9 thing .


No, as a type 9 I actually accept all offers to engage in opportunities to spend time with friends and strengthen friendships (unless I'm really busy or something). This sounds more 5-ish to me because they are more likely to find this as the outside world being invasive and having obligations placed on them.

This is directly from the Enneagram Institute so it will probably be your best bet in differentiating the two. Misidentifying 5 and 9 — The Enneagram Institute

And note that enneagram isn't a description of your behaviors, it is a description of what you desire and fear in life. These desires and fears may _affect_ how you behave, but being a certain enneagram type doesn't mean you have to act a certain way.


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## Fauling (Aug 13, 2020)

aerstyu said:


> Correct, 9s tend to avoid confrontation. Though as a type 9 myself (and this may be due to my 8-wing), if I _do_ get confronted, I don't like to back down.
> 
> As a type 9 I can complicate some things too. Also, I don't think 9s are necessarily impractical. In fact I often have to play "realist" when I'm working with others who have bizarre ideas and bring them back down to earth.
> 
> ...


How do I distinguish between 5s need for safety and 9s need for comfort . At first glance these two sound the same .

I found this .









Doesn't the core weakness basically mean unwillingness to explore their identities or more precisely some parts of their identities (the parts being desires needs and abilities) if these three are a part of your identity of course I'm not sure .

Being in conflict with whom with oneself or others or with everyone yourself included .

I have this feeling that whatever I have is never enough it's mostly about intelligence and knowledge . I have to know more I have to make myself better . I research about how to become more intelligent and try to follow the advice given in the articles . I want to know how doing something is good for me for example reading . Does this sound like type 1 .

I also read that 5s minimize their needs how exactly . For example I wear basically the same outfit every day and I have three types of breakfasts that I eat .










What do annihilation and not existing mean exactly I'm not sure I understand fear of not existing so the desire is to exist if yes then in what way like live the life to the fullest like have a lot of advantures or success or what . am I going in a completely wrong direction .

I also read somewhere that 9s need stimulation from the outside because they aren't good at stimulating themselves . If there's stimulation from the outside that means there's stimulation from within . What does it mean then . Does having characters in one's mind interact with each other make jokes and thus entertain me count as stimulation from within .

Also when I was in school I would not go anywhere with my classmates it would be rare for me to participate in a party or even go to the cafeteria . I would not play games with them I would just sit back and observe how they were playing most of the time .

When I'm told " I do all of this for you and you don't do anything for me " or something like that I tell people that I never asked them to do that thing for me they did that themselves .

I've told my family to not ask me for anything especially to do chores . I get annoyed when I'm told to do something for someone most of the time not all the time but most of the time .

I also told my classmates that I don't like being hugged so don't hug me while greeting me .


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## Plusless (Aug 19, 2020)

INTPs are usually either 593 or 594 tritype, so you will probably relate to both 5 and 9 at some level.

9s dissociate from their own needs to avoid feeling conflict, this makes them more passive, and they usually go more with the flow of their surroundings because they don`t see their own needs as that important. They are more aware of conflict around them because of this need to dissociate, but they have a sense of need to go along with it for others, which in turn makes them stressed and comfort seeking.

5s avoid conflict by gathering knowledge and skills to get through it, they are more likely to assert a more defensive attitude because they are more likely to go against the influence of the world around them, not along with it. This view of "security" comes from how the learnt knowledge and skills makes situations of conflict easier to handle.

Now of course these aren`t only extremes of on/off, there is nuance to it, but from this thread I would say that you prefer 5 over 9, probably 593 tritype.


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## aerstyu (Mar 3, 2021)

Fauling said:


> How do I distinguish between 5s need for safety and 9s need for comfort . At first glance these two sound the same .


I would say the need for safety/security is more of a 6 thing.

9s aren't necessarily afraid of the outside world. A 9 may feel upset about obligations that cause conflict. For example, as a type 9, if someone makes me confront someone for something they did wrong, I will feel uncomfortable doing so because I want to avoid that conflict.

5s on the other hand find the outside world intrusive. Constantly placing obligations on a 5 may make them retreat to avoid feeling incapable.

Take for example, a friend who keeps talking to you to the point where you feel drained. As a type 9, I would continue to talk with them even if I'm tired because I don't want to sound rude by breaking off. A 5 would probably be better at ending the conversation to avoid feeling like their inner resources or energy is being drained.



> What do annihilation and not existing mean exactly I'm not sure I understand fear of not existing so the desire is to exist if yes then in what way like live the life to the fullest like have a lot of advantures or success or what . am I going in a completely wrong direction .
> 
> I also read somewhere that 9s need stimulation from the outside because they aren't good at stimulating themselves . If there's stimulation from the outside that means there's stimulation from within . What does it mean then . Does having characters in one's mind interact with each other make jokes and thus entertain me count as stimulation from within .


Everyone is going to have a bit of traits from every type. Even as a 9w8 tritype 973 I can express lots of 5 and 2 traits. And tritype is going to have a big play in it as well. With the 7 in my tritype I think I am fairly good at finding stimulating events for myself to participate in. (though again enneagram does not necessarily determine how you behave)



> Also when I was in school I would not go anywhere with my classmates it would be rare for me to participate in a party or even go to the cafeteria . I would not play games with them I would just sit back and observe how they were playing most of the time .


This is more of just being a reserved person. Probably more common in type 5s though. I like participating in group activities that I think would be fun. If a group of people are playing card games together, I'll probably join. Though this could be the 7 in me wanting that, so that shows that tritype is probably going to play an important role as well.



> I've told my family to not ask me for anything especially to do chores . I get annoyed when I'm told to do something for someone most of the time not all the time but most of the time .


You'll have to look deeper into why you don't like people telling you what to do. For example, type 5s may not like it so they don't deplete their sources, 7s may not like it so they can make more time for more fulfilling and stimulating activities et cetera.


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## Fauling (Aug 13, 2020)

aerstyu said:


> I would say the need for safety/security is more of a 6 thing.
> 
> 9s aren't necessarily afraid of the outside world. A 9 may feel upset about obligations that cause conflict. For example, as a type 9, if someone makes me confront someone for something they did wrong, I will feel uncomfortable doing so because I want to avoid that conflict.
> 
> ...


When I was younger I used to ask my parents how I behaved at social events would a 5 do that it doesn't seem like 5 to me . Also I was interested in what my teachers thought of me .

If I'm not mistaken type should be consistent throughout a person's life right and you had to have the same type when you were a child and in your 20s and later in life . Based on my parents descriptions of me I don't think I was a 5 during childhood . I wasn't detached i was very energetic and advanturous . When playing outside with friends I used to be one of the leaders of the others telling people what to do and follow me . I had a best friend and I used to start having the same hobbies as them I used to copy their handwriting and stuff isn't this more of a 9 thing trying to merge with other people . All of these are things that happened before I turned 13 . Even now I ask feedback from the others about how well I did something .

I'm watching this man on YouTube and he said that ask a 9 what they want to watch on the TV or what they want for dinner and they wouldn't know . I can kind of relate to this could be because these are not priorities for me but still .

I don't think I'm a core 9 because I don't think I merge with people and their needs . I never followed my mom's example to clean the house or do the dishes(for example) because I knew I didn't want to do that . The YouTube guy said these and said 9s would do these things for harmony and not to create conflict and they would think they wanted to do these things because they'd merge with their mom in this example and think it's their need or desire .

There was a time when I was always asked to make coffee I didn't like it so I said I'm not going to make coffee anymore I insisted so much that I don't make it regularly anymore .


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## Fauling (Aug 13, 2020)

Plusless said:


> INTPs are usually either 593 or 594 tritype, so you will probably relate to both 5 and 9 at some level.
> 
> 9s dissociate from their own needs to avoid feeling conflict, this makes them more passive, and they usually go more with the flow of their surroundings because they don`t see their own needs as that important. They are more aware of conflict around them because of this need to dissociate, but they have a sense of need to go along with it for others, which in turn makes them stressed and comfort seeking.
> 
> ...


Thanks for replying . What do you think about 5s asking for other people's opinions and seeking for their approval could that be a thing for 5s .

Hmm do I even seek for other people's approval . For example I dropped out of uni and no one in my life approved of that decision . I lead a kind of lifestyle that again no one in my life approves of .

But again I can remember asking my parents how I behaved after parties and stuff would a 5 care . Would they be energetic as children and lead others .


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## Plusless (Aug 19, 2020)

Fauling said:


> Thanks for replying . What do you think about 5s asking for other people's opinions and seeking for their approval could that be a thing for 5s .
> 
> Hmm do I even seek for other people's approval . For example I dropped out of uni and no one in my life approved of that decision . I lead a kind of lifestyle that again no one in my life approves of .
> 
> But again I can remember asking my parents how I behaved after parties and stuff would a 5 care . Would they be energetic as children and lead others .


5s want security through information and skills, people are a source of information and skills. Yes they can do it.

You are gathering information, asserting your own need of information to others and willingly going to conflict with your surroundings. The last two indicate 5 over 9, a 9 would be more likely to avoid asserting their own needs in this way, and would suppress their desires to avoid the possibility of conflict.


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## aerstyu (Mar 3, 2021)

Fauling said:


> If I'm not mistaken type should be consistent throughout a person's life right and you had to have the same type when you were a child and in your 20s and later in life . Based on my parents descriptions of me I don't think I was a 5 during childhood . I wasn't detached i was very energetic and advanturous . When playing outside with friends I used to be one of the leaders of the others telling people what to do and follow me . I had a best friend and I used to start having the same hobbies as them I used to copy their handwriting and stuff isn't this more of a 9 thing trying to merge with other people . All of these are things that happened before I turned 13 . Even now I ask feedback from the others about how well I did something .


People have different takes on whether your type changes since MBTI and enneagram are kind of abstract. Personally I don't think MBTI really can since it's not likely that your brain is suddenly going to change the way it takes in and processes information. I am not sure about my thoughts on enneagram though.

Whether or not your type changes, your character does develop over time. And then your perception of your type can change with that. When I was younger I was also a lot more outgoing, you probably would've thought I was an ESTP or ENTP, 7w8 or 8w7.

It's important to note that no one fits perfectly into a certain type, and everyone displays a bit of every function/type. Like I could even say I'm a very non-dutiful type 1 (the type that I usually score lowest in) if I wanted to.



> I'm watching this man on YouTube and he said that ask a 9 what they want to watch on the TV or what they want for dinner and they wouldn't know . I can kind of relate to this could be because these are not priorities for me but still .


I do this too. When someone asks me what I want for dinner I habitually say, "I don't care, what do you want?" And I'm the same way, it's because it's not a priority for me.



> I don't think I'm a core 9 because I don't think I merge with people and their needs . I never followed my mom's example to clean the house or do the dishes(for example) because I knew I didn't want to do that . The YouTube guy said these and said 9s would do these things for harmony and not to create conflict and they would think they wanted to do these things because they'd merge with their mom in this example and think it's their need or desire .


Personally I don't really follow examples to do stuff like that either, but I am going to attribute this to my 8-wing, my high scores in type 7, and my low scores in type 1. So you will want to look at everything as a whole.

If someone wants to make me do something for them there needs to be an incentive. The more someone bugs me, the less I am going to want to do it for them. I will just tell them to stop bothering me, or if they won’t listen/I don’t want to bother arguing, I will just leave. (this is kind of making me second-guess my type too LOL)

You might be a core 5. You might just relate to a lot of other 9 tendencies because it may be in your tritype.


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## goodvibe (Aug 23, 2013)

aerstyu said:


> People have different takes on whether your type changes since MBTI and enneagram are kind of abstract. Personally I don't think MBTI really can since it's not likely that your brain is suddenly going to change the way it takes in and processes information.


Maybe, not so much suddenly but it probably can over a long period of time. 

And this is where it gets complicated. The brain does not fully develop until age 25. Specific functions, and this is something I often wonder, may have a more challenging time developing than others because of the environment.


Is it possible that your dominant function develops later than your others? What if your would-be dominant function is hindered from developing to the point that another cognitive function takes over? This would be like someone born left-handed is scolded until they learn to use their right handed more and more, making them either right-handed or at least ambidexterous. 


As we know, a child does not have complete autonomy over their life, and certain functions...say Ti, or Fi may be discouraged depending on their parents or school system's role. In effect, another function (like Te) may be strengthening at the expense of the dominant function in order to get good grades, not be punished, or ostracized...or the carrot may be used, and other functions may develop through positive reinforcement. All of this happens, at a young age.

This lack of independence, of course, muddles everything up, and this is why youth can be such a tumultuous time for some.

It's an interesting topic and I can see both sides on this. This is why I tend to look at how someone expresses themself, to see what is at their core, because that can show the cognitive functions in use...moreso than binary answers given on the tests that measure these subjective values. The cognitive stack tests have some big flaws in them, because they assign values that are hard to measure what cognitive function is actually producing them. It could be Ti, or Ni, or Fi. Or Ne could be Se. Usually though, an intuitive will have a low sensing score on Si or Se, but not always, and that can tell you quite a bit. But, I digress. 

I may add to this broader topic in that other thread about enneagram, mbti, big 5, etc a little later because I had some thoughts on this earlier.


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## aerstyu (Mar 3, 2021)

goodvibe said:


> Maybe, not so much suddenly but it probably can over a long period of time.
> 
> And this is where it gets complicated. The brain does not fully develop until age 25. Specific functions, and this is something I often wonder, may have a more challenging time developing than others because of the environment.
> 
> ...


These are some really insightful points. I can definitely see how some functions can be easier/harder to develop due to environment.

The ambidextrous analogy is a good one...makes me wonder if that's why SJ's are more common than the other types. Maybe lots of people were encouraged to make good use of Si as kids and it just stuck with them as they got older? And maybe why sensors are more common than intuitives in general.

Also yeah, the extroverted judging functions seem to be more favorable/encouraged imo. I can kind of see why though, as the introverted ones are more subjective, so it may be harder for others to understand. Te and Fe probably come off as more organized than Ti and Fi. Though that doesn't make it any easier on us XXXPs (especially IXXPs since it is our dominant function) 🙃



> It's an interesting topic and I can see both sides on this. This is why I tend to look at how someone expresses themself, to see what is at their core, because that can show the cognitive functions in use...moreso than binary answers given on the tests that measure these subjective values. The cognitive stack tests have some big flaws in them, because they assign values that are hard to measure what cognitive function is actually producing them. It could be Ti, or Ni, or Fi. Or Ne could be Se. Usually though, an intuitive will have a low sensing score on Si or Se, but not always, and that can tell you quite a bit. But, I digress.
> 
> I may add to this broader topic in that other thread about enneagram, mbti, big 5, etc a little later because I had some thoughts on this earlier.


Yeah, I have also thought of this before. The same behavior can be attributed to different functions given how it is processed by the people themselves. For example, someone's Fi values may just happen to align with the surrounding people's values, and then their Fi can look like Fe. Or maybe the Fi user's inner values just tell them to accommodate the largest number of people, which would again look like Fe. It seems that INFPs vs ISFJs are a common mistype because of this.

Awesome, looking forward to reading your ideas in the thread later if you post!


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## Fauling (Aug 13, 2020)

Plusless said:


> 5s want security through information and skills, people are a source of information and skills. Yes they can do it.
> 
> You are gathering information, asserting your own need of information to others and willingly going to conflict with your surroundings. The last two indicate 5 over 9, a 9 would be more likely to avoid asserting their own needs in this way, and would suppress their desires to avoid the possibility of conflict.


I just read that 5s have fantasies about power and control because of their basic fear . My fantasies are full of characters who are exceptional in one way or another some are genius artists some being musicians some painters who are very young, or genius strategists who are valedictorians and so on . I also have people like background characters who are there to validate the main characters or sometimes there's an audience . The background characters are there to be amazed by the capabilities of the main characters and admire them . When I was younger I used to fantasize about battles but the main point of my fantasies was and is overly smart in different ways characters who are admired by others . Could this be a 5s thirst for being capable and powerful that are reflecting in my fantasies or is this something else . Sounds more 3ish to be honest .

I'm now researching about the differences between 3s and 5s . What are some key differences between these two in your opinion . What's the difference between 3s wanting to be outstanding and 5s wanting to be experts aren't experts outstanding so 5s essentially want to be outstanding as well no .

If I was a three would I drop out of uni and stay at home all the time refuse to get a usual 9 to 5 job considering that the definition of success in my family and culture is to go to uni get a corporate job and earn lots of money and have a lot of friends .

But intelligence is highly valued in my family so it could be that I'm trying to become more intelligent because it will mean success to my family .

I'm reading different descriptions of threes and and they are described as these people who set goals for themselves and achieve them and like that their whole lives, they are workaholics and chameleons who dress and behave differently depending who they're trying to impress . It's hard for them to be in a state of doing nothing . They are very fast people. They seem to be very action oriented . This doesn't fit me that well I think .

Could a 5 wish for people's admiration to the point of fantasizing about it I did some research and apparently that could be a 5w4 thing . But it's giving more 3 . Could it be because it's in my tritype but if it's not the core and if 5s can't be obsessed with people admiring them why is it so present in my fantasies . Also the characters are being admired not me but still it's something that's very present .


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## Plusless (Aug 19, 2020)

@Fauling 

Yes, it might be because of it. Enneagram describes the deepest fears that control our behavior, this wish to overcome the fear can be so deeply rooted that it can manifest in dreams of being able to control it.

The source of validation is different in 3s and 5s. 3s are attached to success (and the success of their ideas), 5s are attached to their ideas and skills (and their own success). The difference would only be in which do your dreams focus on, if your validation > the validation of ideas, it would be closer to 3 > 5. There are elements of both in your description, but it seems to point to 5 > 3, which would still be consistent with 593.

So in short, even though you like the validation, it is more important to identify whether you place more importance to validation of self over the validation of your ideas and skills.


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## Fauling (Aug 13, 2020)

Plusless said:


> @Fauling
> 
> Yes, it might be because of it. Enneagram describes the deepest fears that control our behavior, this wish to overcome the fear can be so deeply rooted that it can manifest in dreams of being able to control it.
> 
> ...


What's the difference between validating someone and validating their ideas I'm not sure I understand . If you're validating someone's ideas doesn't that mean you're validating them because they were the one that came up with the idea if the idea is validated aren't they validated as well for having the validated idea .

For example I refuse to get help from professionals and take courses about the profession I'm learning by myself because I want to say that I achieved it by myself without professionals help(even though it's not really by myself and there's tons of information on the internet from professionals). Is this more of a seeking for a validation of self over validation of skills or ideas .

In my latest fantasy main characters composed 10 songs of different genres in an hour and the secondary characters were admiring how good the songs were and perhaps how talented the main characters were .


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## Plusless (Aug 19, 2020)

Fauling said:


> What's the difference between validating someone and validating their ideas I'm not sure I understand . If you're validating someone's ideas doesn't that mean you're validating them because they were the one that came up with the idea if the idea is validated aren't they validated as well for having the validated idea .
> 
> For example I refuse to get help from professionals and take courses about the profession I'm learning by myself because I want to say that I achieved it by myself without professionals help(even though it's not really by myself and there's tons of information on the internet from professionals). Is this more of a seeking for a validation of self over validation of skills or ideas .
> 
> In my latest fantasy main characters composed 10 songs of different genres in an hour and the secondary characters were admiring how good the songs were and perhaps how talented the main characters were .


Would you prefer someone praising your painting or someone just walking to you and saying that you are a good painter?

A 5 attaches their sense of identity to knowledge and skills which the painting is a manifestation of, they prefer someone validating their work over themself.
A 3 attaches their sense of identity to their own success, which means that the painting is more of a tool to achieve success. They are more invested about someone validating them for creating it instead of someone admiring the painting.

Both of these matter to you, but it seems that you fit 5 more.


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## Fauling (Aug 13, 2020)

Plusless said:


> Would you prefer someone praising your painting or someone just walking to you and saying that you are a good painter?
> 
> A 5 attaches their sense of identity to knowledge and skills which the painting is a manifestation of, they prefer someone validating their work over themself.
> A 3 attaches their sense of identity to their own success, which means that the painting is more of a tool to achieve success. They are more invested about someone validating them for creating it instead of someone admiring the painting.
> ...


Thank you .


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## aerstyu (Mar 3, 2021)

Fauling said:


> I'm now researching about the differences between 3s and 5s . What are some key differences between these two in your opinion . What's the difference between 3s wanting to be outstanding and 5s wanting to be experts aren't experts outstanding so 5s essentially want to be outstanding as well no .


I agree with Plusless with the painting analogy. 3s like to be seen as a successful individual while 5s would like their knowledge and skills to be seen as what's successful.



> If I was a three would I drop out of uni and stay at home all the time refuse to get a usual 9 to 5 job considering that the definition of success in my family and culture is to go to uni get a corporate job and earn lots of money and have a lot of friends .
> 
> But intelligence is highly valued in my family so it could be that I'm trying to become more intelligent because it will mean success to my family .


I would say it kind of depends on your wing. 3w2, with the 2-wing, likes being successful and gaining admiration or approval from others. 3w4, with the 4-wing, likes being successful in their own interests and what aligns with their sense of identity - they care less about others' opinions than 3w2s do. In this sense, 3w2s can come off as more boastful and 3w4s can come off as more selfish, but these are stereotypes.



> I'm reading different descriptions of threes and and they are described as these *people who set goals for themselves and achieve them and like that their whole lives, they are workaholics and chameleons who dress and behave differently depending who they're trying to impress* . It's hard for them to be in a state of doing nothing . They are very fast people. They seem to be very action oriented . This doesn't fit me that well I think .


I don't think your core type is 3 either. The bolded part sounds more like a 3w2, based on my description above.


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## Fauling (Aug 13, 2020)

aerstyu said:


> I agree with Plusless with the painting analogy. 3s like to be seen as a successful individual while 5s would like their knowledge and skills to be seen as what's successful.
> 
> 
> I would say it kind of depends on your wing. 3w2, with the 2-wing, likes being successful and gaining admiration or approval from others. 3w4, with the 4-wing, likes being successful in their own interests and what aligns with their sense of identity - they care less about others' opinions than 3w2s do. In this sense, 3w2s can come off as more boastful and 3w4s can come off as more selfish, but these are stereotypes.
> ...


Thank you .


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