# Fe vs. Fi - the Holiday Test



## Sunless

What follows is supposedly a way to differentiate Fi from Fe according to this website: INFJ or INFP? a closer look

I wanted to know how accurate you think this is. If there are INFPs who like holidays and INFJs who are not interested in them please post your ideas n_n





> *The Holiday Test*
> Okay, another test. (This one really seems to work!)
> How are you about holidays?
> For Valentine's Day, do you dutifully send a dozen roses to the object of your affections, take her to dinner, and shower her with appreciation? Maybe you send a valentine to every member of your family, or each one of your friends? On Valentine's Day itself, does your happiness depend on getting those flowers (a full dozen at least, count them to be sure), and your secret wish has always been to get a surprise RING (promise or engagement) on that day?
> For Christmas, do you knock yourself out buying Just The Right Gift for someone else (maybe MANY someone elses), and present it at just the right moment, preferably wrapped in a Very Special Way? Or perhaps you handmake your Christmas gifts, and slave over them, getting them done just in the nick of time for the Big Day? Perhaps you never have any home-made things of your own, because you're always making things for other people, usually to be presented on a holiday occasion? (And usually they are the "perfect gift," according to the recipient and sometimes even everyone who knows the recipient.)
> On Mother's Day, do you make a point of dutifully sending flowers, and a card, and either make breakfast in bed or attend a Sunday brunch -- all with a loving heart?
> If you say "yes" to most of these questions, you probably have a preference for extraverted Feeling. You have been culturally programmed to take the appropriately sanctioned actions on these days and will feel remiss if you do not. (And you may take it for granted that everyone else does it too!) Yes, it's a cliche -- you know that -- and you love the cliche. Extraverted Feeling adores the cliche -- it probably *invented* the cliche! I confess: for years I dreamt of being swept off my feet by a knight in shining armor who rode atop his white charger precisely on Valentine's Day (~swoon~). Hey, I got engaged on the Eiffel Tower for pete's sakes -- could it be any more cliche than that?
> Okay, you're right -- we could have gotten engaged on Valentine's Day. So I don't go that far -- and I'm intelligent enough to know that a diamond ring is no substitute for love. But I can't deny the part of me that is completely in love with the cliche and wants to embody *that*. I have decorations for most all the holidays, and love putting up the Christmas tree, or waving flags on the Fourth of July, or putting a stuffed bunny in the living room for Easter. I used to love making May baskets as a kid and taking them around the neighborhood to share. And I was well into my twenties when I still used to mail valentines to everybody I knew (okay, almost) on that magical day.
> Introverted Feeling, on the other hand, rejects this sort of cliche. As someone writes, "I object to the sort of commercialised, insincere mush that is falsely presented as 'romance' in the media and advertising" and rejects "the Hallmark capitalistic display of romance." In contrast to extraverted Feeling, introverted Feeling prefers to convey its affection.... in its own way.... in its own time... with its own methods. It chafes at any notion that something outside of them might dictate or regulate how and when and where they will celebrate their feelings.
> Here's what an INFP has written about it:
> > Valentine's Day is a perfect example. This
> > time of year, people start being bombarded with "reminders" to buy a
> > gift or do something special for a sweetheart. I resist that, to
> > the point of wanting to do something special for my wife every day
> > *except* Feb. 14. But I always break down and buy a card or flowers
> > or something anyway. Ironically, she has an even more negative
> > attitude toward the holiday. She might force a thank-you, but Fe is
> > her "trickster" function, so she automatically wonders what I'm up
> > to, what I want, what I'm trying to pull. It's a bad holiday for us
> > all around.
> > my "oppositional" Fe seems to show up whenever someone says
> > something like, "You ought to call your mother" or "Don't forget to
> > send a thank-you card" or "We really should make an appearance at so-
> > and-so's party." My instant reaction is resistance. Whether it's a
> > good idea or not, I don't want to do it -- mainly because it's just
> > a social obligation and is not coming from my heart.​An ISFP (also DomFi) responds with this:
> Valentine's day is the perfect example. My ENFP husband hates the
> holiday, precisely because it feels fake. "Hallmark" is a bad word
> for him, not because he doesn't give people cards, but because he
> accuses that particular company of "raking in money and cashing in
> on people's feelings."
> My parents (both with auxiliary extraverted Feeling) love Valentine's Day
> and look forward to it as a welcome, socially correct occasion to honor
> your spouse and tell him/her how much you love being married to him/her. ​+++++++++++++++++++++
> So there ya go! Introverted Feeling resists (deplores) socially correct occasions, and extraverted Feeling LIVES for them.
> Let me be clear -- even folks who prefer extraverted Feeling wince at the commercialism associated with this holidays, and the obvious greed and exploitation that they generate. But they celebrate the holiday anyway, in spite of all that -- and LOVE the splashy fuss. And their hearts go "pitter-patter" about expressing themselves brilliantly on that one particular day.
> In fact, years ago when I was in a relationship with an ENFP, I used to knock myself out every Christmas to make it really special when we celebrated it with his family. One year he told me that I had "raised the bar" on what Christmas could be like, and had inspired the rest of his family to not just go through the motions, but to really make an effort. This was huge news for me, because I assumed everybody put as much consideration and work into Christmas as I did. Who knew?!
> In conversations I've had with INFs, this seems to be one of the BEST measuring sticks for detecting the difference between introverted and extraverted Feeling (thus highlighting differences between INFP and INFJ). Even the INFPs who reeeeally think they have a preference for extraverted Feeling tend to grinch about holiday obligations, thus betraying their true preference.
> Answer this question as honestly as you can, and you will have a fairly reliable answer about which pattern you truly prefer. (By the way, I have limited patience with visitors who say, "Yes, But" about this test, and continue to drum up additional "reasons" for why INFJ is still their best-fit pattern. Please don't waste my time!)


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## TurranMC

I'm not an INFP/INFJ (or am I?!) but I do have a very high Fi. I *completely* agreed with what it said about Fi. It seems like this is a very good way to test your Fe vs Fi because of that but need more people to pitch in I think.


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## Mizmar

> In contrast to extraverted Feeling, introverted Feeling prefers to convey its affection.... in its own way.... in its own time... with its own methods. It chafes at any notion that something outside of them might dictate or regulate how and when and where they will celebrate their feelings.
> Here's what an INFP has written about it:> Valentine's Day is a perfect example. This
> > time of year, people start being bombarded with "reminders" to buy a
> > gift or do something special for a sweetheart. I resist that, to
> > the point of wanting to do something special for my wife every day
> > *except* Feb. 14. But I always break down and buy a card or flowers
> > or something anyway.


I'm exactly the same way. I'm definitely Fi WAY over Fe according to this Holiday test.


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## Sunless

TurranMC said:


> I'm not an INFP/INFJ (or am I?!) but I do have a very high Fi. I *completely* agreed with what it said about Fi. It seems like this is a very good way to test your Fe vs Fi because of that but need more people to pitch in I think.


See, thats the thing.. um.. you cant be Fi because that is the last function in the INTP 8 function stacking. INTP goes Ti Ne Si Fe Te Ni Se Fi.

You are primarily Fe. I think the aversion towards traditional ways and holidays has to do more with NP vs NJ?


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## TurranMC

Sunless said:


> See, thats the thing.. um.. you cant be Fi because that is the last function in the INTP 8 function stacking. INTP goes Ti Ne Si Fe Te Ni Se Fi.
> 
> You are primarily Fe. I think the aversion towards traditional ways and holidays has to do more with NP vs NJ?


Perhaps I'm an unusual INTP? Or perhaps I'm not an INTP at all.


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## Sunless

Perhaps! :mellow:


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## Fanille

Sunless said:


> See, thats the thing.. um.. you cant be Fi because that is the last function in the INTP 8 function stacking. INTP goes Ti Ne Si Fe Te Ni Se Fi.
> 
> You are primarily Fe. I think the aversion towards traditional ways and holidays has to do more with NP vs NJ?


Sunless, did you take a look at my Function Order Models Guide? The order you mentioned (Fi last for INTPs) is John Beebe's model, which is just one way of looking at things . . . and based on what I've seen from people's Function Analysis Tests here, I don't think it's the most accurate way at all (for most people their inferior function, which in the case of INTPs is Fe, is the lowest on the test).

As for me? I guess I'm somewhere in between . . . I don't exactly loathe the idea of holidays like Valentine's Day, but some people do just take things way too far.


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## Grey

I support MannyP's thoughts - although Si is meant to be the last literal function of INTJs, it usually ranks nearly above or nearly below Fi in functional analysis tests. According to the actual topic, though, it seems quite accurate. I don't oppose holidays in the least, and actually do prefer to participate, but only those I and another person agree is important (like an anniversary). One thing I did agree with in the first example was the suspicion or searching for motives when given a gift, holiday or not.


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## Lilsnowy

I might be confused. I love Christmas and Christmas trees and all the lights. Christmas was my mom's birthday and we had a family history of her being an elf. My family has a darker-skinned angel on our Christmas tree so 'everyone' will feel welcome, because we have always had friends of different races. 

However, I hate the tedium, commercialism and pressure to preform (give gifts) associated with this holiday. I'm not big on meeting with family Christmas day and prefer to stay home in my pjs. Valentines Day is commercial and don't even get me _started_ on 'Sweetest' day! I don't buy roses and wouldn't expect them, and am familiar with the fact that they generally double or triple in price the week preceding Valentines day. I think people should give them at other times and not out of obligation or because 'how would I look if I didn't?" which I have heard countless times.

A couple years ago I was selling roses on Valentines Day at a farmer's market and a man held up six and asked, "Six... or a dozen?" I asked him how long he had known this woman and he said, "Thirty years." (!!) I calmly looked at him and said, "I'm not even gonna answer that. Security!" He laughed --very sheepishly-- and went back over to the floral shoppe to get his woman of thirty years a _dozen_ roses. 

He was buying them out of obligation, but I'm sorry, no one shorts a woman of thirty years aquaintance on my watch!


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## susurration

> "mainly because it's just a social obligation and is not coming from my heart"


I was sort of with an isfp at the start of this year. Our valentine's gifts were poems to each other, and funnily they both ended up being very similar. Taking the piss out of the day, and promising to show each other how we feel about one another every day. This is just one of the three I wrote



> Perhaps it’s a day for love?-​ No body knows.​ Flo-rence the florist​ Says yes through a show​ How many cards​ Can hallmark sell today?​ Figures overlap ten fingers,​ Crumbs fall from KFC zingers​ One sweet rose is awfully sweet​ But what about​ The other days of the week?​ Aren’t Mondays, Tuesdays, Sundays,​ Christmas,​ Good days for affection?​ Or do they have your objection?​ The day parallels to the ones before,​ V-day…
> Is quite a bore​ For those who do not have one to share,​ But if they did, they still wouldn’t care​ Loving is fun to do​ Almost as fun as buying shoes​ Every day in much amount​ For special ones,​ Without a dollar count​ One day​ Is rather small​ To show someone that to you,​ they’re tall.​ So join me in a jamboree​ and say fuck you to​ Love exclusitivity!​


haha. So corny. 

But yeah, I agree with the Fi descriptions. And I like that website.. I especially liked learning about different communication styles.

On holiday dates I'm not actively defiant about them, but I do what I feel is real, and nothing more. I do however make a big effort for my younger sisters sakes, because they are very much into tradition over sentimental value. 

Actually come to think of it, to illustrate further... 2 years ago a few of my family members proposed we no longer buy gifts for each other at Christmas. Most of us agreed with that.. except for one of my auntie's who detested the idea from the word go and bought presents for everybody anyway. That meant everybody felt guilty about not buying a present for her and her immediate family, so presents ended up being bought by the whole family, for the whole family anyway. She is a person who doesn't care for sentiment and is more focused on tradition. And there's nothing wrong with that, I respect her beliefs


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## Sily

For me, an INFP, it depends on the holiday. I start Christmas prep in September (plans, recipes, shopping, songs, wallpapers, books, movies, crafts, catalogs, lights). I celebrate Christmas for 4 months. Easter, 4th of July, halloween.... eh, I'm not much into them. My husband is really into Valentines, me..... I like it better than easter but not as much as Christmas. Birthdays -- the supreme Holiday for both of us. Very very special. Anniversary is higher up for both of us than Valentines but not as much as birthdays. So .. it depends.


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## Mizmar

Lilsnowy said:


> I might be confused. I love Christmas and Christmas trees and all the lights.


I love Christmas lights and some Christmas music. My girlfriend and I like to decorate the tree with all our pretty, colored spheres and space jellyfish.


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## Seymour

I definitely have a hard time seeing those Fe-oriented traditions as anything other than "fake" or "imposed." I definitely agree that Valentine's day is especially trying. I tell people it's a holiday "designed to make single people feel crummy and couples feel obligated." 

Still, I'm working at trying to see those Fe traditions as a kind of language in which one expresses caring and importance. It's a foreign, foreign thing for me... but it's still important to be aware of the other perspective. I don't want to tell Fe users that I am uncaring or upset with them when I'm not.


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## snail

I generally ignore holidays unless I know that other people will take my doing so as a symbol that I don't care about them, in which case my backup plan is to do something ridiculously creative and personal for them. I try to at least make holidays as meaningful as possible when I simply can't get out of forced, non-spontaneous celebration.


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## Vagabond

haha I read that site a while back and this part of it in particular convinced me i'm infp!
though lately i've been shifting around a bit with my holiday attitude and maybe Fi/Fe in general? I've definitely been taking a lot of pleasure in finding/giving gifts for birthdays and christmas, and have found myself a bit defensive of celebration traditions... strange...


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## Irulan

Thanks, Sunless. When I had only seen the title of this thread I suspected that I may look as if I were Fi because my enneagram tends to contradict my Fe quite a bit. I definitely fit the Fe holiday description though. I appreciated the post. :crazy:


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## meander

In my family I learnt that holidays -especially xmas- means more chores. The planning, the shopping, the worrying about the perfect meal, the perfect tree, the perfect gifts (reminds me more of a type A-personality than any MBTI-character, actually) and everyone was more tense and stressed than ever. 
Today I would like to just meet with dear friends, the more the merrier, and just have a good time. This takes action and attention of a very different quality than the "because it's tradtition!"-schedule.
For me holiday is about what you really want and now, as the "traditionalists" are r.i.p. I try to invoke this in the family, but they are passive, reclusive.
I'll visit a family of friends for the evening, but there will be the guys, all single and lonely and soon drunk and unbearable and I kind of dread it 

EDit: I forgot the point: I guess I got balanced Fi and Fe - because holidays ARE important and special, but it has to be real, not fake tradition.


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## 0 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34

I don't think this is a good way to determine Fe/Fi. I more often go the Fe route. Though, I don't care for the traditions in their own right, they offer an easy opportunity to express feeling, and other people do care about the traditions, so I could offend someone if I don't... and If I'm gonna do something I gotta go all out with it anyway.


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## addle1618

ehhh.... I love doing little special lovely things for my lovely if I ever had one on valentine's day, but I have done special stuff on their b-days and stuff... I like that kind of stuff >.> 

*Fe* :blushed:


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## OrangeAppled

I find Holidays to be largely commercial, materialistic, hedonistic, phony, etc, etc.
So I am definitely Fi, according to this. Although, I don't think this is a very accurate way to type yourself....


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## Peanut Brittle

100% agreed. :wink:

As for me, I'm not sure why I dislike the whole holiday planning sector. I always feel like I use the concept of holidays being overly-commercialized and materialized to cover up my true laziness and last-minute perceiving function. :tongue: But it's definitely a conviction I hold very firmly to, and the reason why I end up giving Ellis Island souvenir cards with a few spare bucks as a gift to all the birthday parties. :crazy:


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## Kaipa

I like Holidays and their message but I don't like it how commercialised Christmas etc has become. I used to make gifts for other people and stress out about the gifts... And I always felt like my gift was not "good enough", it was supposed to be something exceptional. I've been so stressed out by the "perfect" gifts that I decided not to give a single gift this year. I feel kind of bad about that but I hope that people will understand. However, I don't have any negative feelings towards people using these special days to show their affection towards others. I would love to participate more and make the Holidays even more magical.

I don't know what I'm explaining, really... but I find myself somewhere in the middle of that description. Hee, I remember once saying "Good Valentine's Day" to my friend whom I had not known for a very long time. He said that he detestst Valentine's Day. He's definitely an IxFP.


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## spifffo

Yup, perfect. I've definitely been known to rant about "socially prescribed" generosity...holiday norms just don't let me express myself in a way I feel is meaningful...the prescribed obligation to express my care for someone cheapens the whole experience for me.

I guess it makes sense that the emotional social culture is built by Fe people, so their self-expression naturally lines up with it. People with less developed Fe can't authentically assimilate in the same way, though I wonder if Fi with sensing preference is as bothered by the commercialism as intuitive Fi seems to be.

That said, I still love holidays, as long as I can live them on my own terms.


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## sodden

You know, this whole test is one of the things that threw me off when I was considering INFJ or INFP. I think holidays, overall, are silly and irritating, especially when you get to the capitalist/commercial aspect. Conversely, my ESFP husband's favorite day of the year is Valentine's Day. 

For what it's worth, my favorite holiday is Halloween because it's fun making costumes and you don't have to buy gifts for everyone. I think, if anything, the attitude I have toward holidays would be a very INFJ one. There's so much fakery and blatant consumerism and hypocrisy it makes me ill. Don't get me wrong, there are things I like about Christmas, but presents isn't one of them. I would much rather donate money to a worthy charitable organization and have others do the same for me in return. 
I hate when someone does something or gives something just because they're 'supposed to'. Why do something when there is no real meaning behind it? It's all just an illusion of generosity vs the real deal.

There's my rant. :blushed:


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## Pachacutie

This seems to be a really good description, though of course, there are probably exceptions. It does describe the difference really well. I don't really like holidays, but I try to stay positive about them, if they bring positivity. 

Another one, I came across recently in an argument about religion really struck me as a good example. I said something along the lines of, "Sometimes I feel like God doesn't fit into my morals. A perfect God that I'd want to worship would be a kinder God." Then someone said, "But God's morals are the only morals. He created them." Interesting stuff. The first statement, to me, seems very Fi and the second very Fe. Neither wrong or at least impossible to be proven wrong, but very different.


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## Kokoro

Thought I'd join in because I'm Fi dom as well. :blushed:

The only holiday I really like is christmas because of the whole family aspect behind it. I do find that I spend a bit too much on presents but that's because I want everyone to be happy with what they get and I enjoy trying to find things that they'll like. I do agree that it's a bit too commercialised though, for example, shops putting up christmas decorations in september is ridiculous. :frustrating: 

I don't really think much of any other holidays, especially ones like valentines day,halloween and easter because it just seems that shops just use them as a way to make some extra money. Birthdays aren't all that great either, more because I don't like all the attention when it's mine, other people's birthdays are ok though. :tongue:


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## NeedsNewNameNow

I'm an INTP so this is tricky since my Fe isn't so strong that I don't cave to the pressures to gift everyone, and I also don't like the commercialism and social pressures of the holidays, but on the other hand I do enjoy the holidays as a way to express things to those closest to me.. it's not always easy to do so on other days.


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## Resolution

This isn't an accurate way to check Fe vs. Fi. 

Myself and my two best friends all have Fe, and we never give holiday gifts. We appreciate each other in more genuine ways. 

Where did the assumption come from that Fe = bending over to commercialized holidays?


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## NeedsNewNameNow

Btmangan said:


> This isn't an accurate way to check Fe vs. Fi.
> 
> Myself and my two best friends all have Fe, and we never give holiday gifts. We appreciate each other in more genuine ways.
> 
> Where did the assumption come from that Fe = bending over to commercialized holidays?


It's more about bending over to other's expectations. Since your best friends aren't into the gift-giving, you aren't either. Whereas in a social group that put a high importance on it, you might well too.


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## Resolution

NeedsNewNameNow said:


> It's more about bending over to other's expectations. Since your best friends aren't into the gift-giving, you aren't either. Whereas in a social group that put a high importance on it, you might well too.


Hmn... good point. 

Maybe it's just my off-and-on fighting with my mom... so I Fe-connect to my friends and not my family


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## spook

I’m an infj and I agree more with the Fi stance. We do lead with Ni so we’re not just blindly obligated to do everything society or tradition dictates. We’re probably more sensitive to certain pressures but it doesn’t mean we will conform more.


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## chaeriean

i'm not an infp or an infj, but fe is my second highest function. i find holidays to be insincere, so it really actually grates against my fe-functions which are based in genuineness (for myself). i tend to be honor-bound to people, not to social expectation. i am traditional, but more ethically rather than socially. established rules and norms, principles, defined parameters, etc. traditional clothing, traditional behavior, politeness, respect, "old-fashioned" ideals i suppose. the "expected" part of holidays is what gets me, the fact that everybody must participate completely degrades the value in it. i don't celebrate any of them. i do however tend to decorate for everyone because it makes most of my social group happy. i guess that is what i "give"? i don't know.


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## Nihon

I have so much Fi... I can't stand how people _expect _gifts or love or anything just because it's a particular day. You can't drum up true emotions just because it changed from one day of the week to the next. That's just a fake imitation of real feelings and I find it deplorable that I'm expected to want to give someone a gift on a particular day or feel especially loving on a specific day. I find it equally deplorable that other people would shower me with their fake feelings just because of a holiday. I will give people love and gifts when it's TRUE to what I feel right then. If that feeling didn't arise from within me (instead of outside of me) then it's just a fake version of the feeling, and I won't stand by and let love and caring be defiled by such facades that are being displayed as a duty rather than a true feeling. I always take part in the festivities and gift giving and whatnot because I'm happy to see people being happy together. But I do not like this idea that we must be happy on a certain day rather than when we feel truly happy inside.


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## Nightshade

I'm a Fi-dom... and the idea of buying gifts sounds nice and sentimental, but I never truly get around to buying people gifts. Sometimes I feel horrible about it.

I will give someone something spontaneously every once in a while. I feel like holidays and even birthdays, gifts and expectations are forced - lacking integrity. I prefer connecting on an emotional level, rather than a material one. I would rather buy someone dinner where we can bond rather than plan out something extravagant. I like surprising people when they least expect it...


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## RetroVortex

My Divining rod snapped towards Fi on that one! XD


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## Aelthwyn

It seems like a pretty good test to me. 

Now, I love holidays, but not necesarily in the Fe way. I don't resist holidays, and I don't complain about them being empty or commercialized. They are as good an opportunity as any to express one's love and connection with others. But it's the honnest sentiment that counts, not the specific day or specific way in which it's expressed. Holidays are just good reminders, but I'm not too concerned if someone forgets to send me a card. 

I enjoy decorating because it's a fun opportnity for creative expression and a little change of scenery. And I enjoy the nostalgia or patiotism or whatever emotions the decorations might evoke. 

I enjoy wrapping up presents beautifully and finding the perfect gift for someone - BUT I don't like feeling obligated to give gifts. I like giving gifts _only_ if I really _can_ find the perfect thing for someone, and I tend to put off thinking about it untill much too late and end up sending things after the holiday is passed or just giving people hugs and well-wishes. I also don't like receiving obligation gifts from people who don't really know my tastes. I mean...even from people I really love, if they can't figure out something that I actually Want to have, then I'd rather they not get me something I'm just going to take down to the good-will or 'regift' to someone else. If it's 'the thought that counts' then just give me the thought okay? "I love you" communicates it quite well. Of course I like getting gifts and I appreciate the desire to give them, but it's really impractical and wasteful if it's not something the person getting it is actually going to enjoy or use. (I'd like to make a note here that one of my pet peeves is when people give others gifts that are actually something they wanted themselves but felt guilty about spending the money on themselves so they give it as a gift. OR when they buy stereotypical gifts which are generally considered age/gender appropriate and/or which are considered nice, expensive items - without bothering to think about the person as an individual with unique tastes.) 

I do enjoy traditions, but I don't think I'm attached to them in quite the same way as some people seem to be.


oh, also, as much as I'm a 'hopeless romantic' I always hated the common cultural pictures of guys poposing to girls, it always felt so cheesy or too public or whatever. I always dreamed of my wedding being very untraditional, just us making our own promises to eachother in private - who needs culturally recognized authorities to make you permanently attached? who needs people watching you at this special moment between the two of you?


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