# Do people use personality types as a means of discrimination?



## jsawyerwill (Mar 31, 2014)

I see the edges of discourse in other forms, the NT forms generally are careless to such things but discrimination seems almost natural no matter what reason is given for it. Is personality types just some people excuse to dislike or hate others?


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## Tzara (Dec 21, 2013)

We are rationals, and we can realize that every type is different and not equal. Seeing past the humanitarianism.
So does this make me like some other types less? yes. 
Do I discriminate them in any way? No.

Also, *"NT Forms are generally careless to such things"*
By your standards that's very discriminating.


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## PowerShell (Feb 3, 2013)

Not exactly hate others but it does help when trying to figure out if a relationship is going to work out or at least know what I am in for since it is pretty accurate.


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## monemi (Jun 24, 2013)

Some of the US military want to use MBTI to identify natural killers. They've concluded ESTP's with higher intelligence make up a larger percentage of the population that are naturally predisposed to kill and wants them identified and use their 'talents' - infantry, armor and special ops. Which would essentially mean that if they did this, identifying as ESTP's in the US military would be more hazardous to your health. Kiddies, if you're signing up for the military, any personality tests, do not test as ESTP. 
https://notes.utk.edu/bio/greenberg.nsf/0/bd7eed04567bfe2b85256e3b002f29c1?OpenDocument

'One such test already in use by the military is the _Myers-Briggs_ personality-type test. Considering the characteristics discussed above, the natural killer would most likely be an ESTP (extroverted, sensory, thinking, perceiving) personality type on this test.ESTPs are outgoing, highly adaptive, deal in facts, sensory oriented, excel at sports, learn through life experience, prefer action to conversation and are tough in harsh situations.28 Matching the ESTP personality type to intelligent, caustic, later sons will help identify potential natural killers. The ESTP personality type, coupled with the other associated traits, is not an absolute determinant of a natural killer or a sociopath, but it provides a good baseline. Personality-type testing at initial entry could identify and help place natural killers where they can best employ their talent—in infantry, armor and special operations units.'


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## jsawyerwill (Mar 31, 2014)

PowerShell said:


> Not exactly hate others but it does help when trying to figure out if a relationship is going to work out or at least know what I am in for since it is pretty accurate.


Or perhaps your relationships don't work because you went on here. theres a Psychosomatic element to it.


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## PowerShell (Feb 3, 2013)

jsawyerwill said:


> Or perhaps your relationships don't work because you went on here. theres a Psychosomatic element to it.


Or I tried figuring out why my last relationship failed and then I asked her to take the test and she did and it came back as ISTJ and then reading ENTP-ISTJ relationships, it all made perfect sense and pretty much everything that happened was typical (without me knowing it until I looked back in hindsight).


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## jsawyerwill (Mar 31, 2014)

Tzara said:


> We are rationals, and we can realize that every type is different and not equal. Seeing past the humanitarianism.
> So does this make me like some other types less? yes.
> Do I discriminate them in any way? No.
> 
> ...


hmmm... I suppose instead of looking outward I should also look inward, but I see a lot of "because I'm a *insert personality type* I often *insert action*" does that relinquish them of the responsibility of said action whether negative or positive? I guess that comes down to free-will rational deliberation debates which aren't something I'm willing to brush at this time in the morning. However are we as humans inclined to attempt to rise and fall through some mental caste system based on any factors we can get our hands on?


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## Tzara (Dec 21, 2013)

jsawyerwill said:


> I see a lot of "because I'm a *insert personality type* I often *insert action*"


Well MBTI is entirely about the reverse, I question a lot of things and im not exactly a serious person, *therefore* I am an ENTP. After that you can just say I question a lot of things and im not exactly a serious person, *because* I am an ENTP.

Since we know you are an INTP, we can simply say, because you are an "INTP", you are "taking this too seriously"

The sole reason of MBTIs existence is to classify people.



jsawyerwill said:


> However are we as humans inclined to attempt to rise and fall through some mental caste system based on any factors we can get our hands on?


"attempt to rise and fall through some mental caste system"
what are you implying? Nobody says someone is absolutely better than the other person. It just says, *some* people are *better *at *some* things than *some* other people.


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## jsawyerwill (Mar 31, 2014)

Tzara said:


> Well MBTI is entirely about the reverse, I question a lot of things and im not exactly a serious person, *therefore* I am an ENTP. After that you can just say I question a lot of things and im not exactly a serious person, *because* I am an ENTP.
> 
> Since we know you are an INTP, we can simply say, because you are an "INTP", you are "taking this too seriously"
> 
> ...



you misunderstand what I'm saying Tzara. I'm not questioning the integrity of the MBTI but rather the people who use it as an explanation for their actions. And I will not apologize for my passion. I do not take things to seriously because I'm and INTP, I take things to seriously because i value truth and knowledge. If that can be classify as INTP behavior so be it but what I'm getting at is when users use classification as explanation for behavior, when in fact its not explanation, but classification.


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## Tzara (Dec 21, 2013)

jsawyerwill said:


> I do not take things to seriously because I'm and INTP, I take things to seriously because i value truth and knowledge.


I value truth and knowledge too, why dont I take things seriously :kitteh:

Why does it bother you that some people use MBTI to explain their behaviour. I mean, its at least accurate.. thinking that there are people still using astrology for that.


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## jsawyerwill (Mar 31, 2014)

Tzara said:


> I value truth and knowledge too, why dont I take things seriously :kitteh:
> 
> Why does it bother you that some people use MBTI to explain their behaviour. I mean, its at least accurate.. thinking that there are people still using astrology for that.


because that means justification of their behavior. If we are all just percentages on a personality quiz then do we actually decide our actions our are they just pre-programmed reactions to stimuli based on our experiences and to hell with free will and order.


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## grandpa2390 (Apr 19, 2011)

jsawyerwill said:


> you misunderstand what I'm saying Tzara. I'm not questioning the integrity of the MBTI but rather the people who use it as an explanation for their actions. And I will not apologize for my passion. I do not take things to seriously because I'm and INTP, I take things to seriously because i value truth and knowledge. If that can be classify as INTP behavior so be it but what I'm getting at is when users use classification as explanation for behavior, when in fact its not explanation, but classification.


I agree. and MBTI can help us to control our behavior and our attitudes, but not change them. I will never lose my passion for truth and knowledge. But because of MBTI, I have learned to control where and when to express that passion as to not cause trouble. So I am "serious" because I am "INTP" but I will obfuscate stupidity when around other types.


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## grandpa2390 (Apr 19, 2011)

jsawyerwill said:


> because that means justification of their behavior. If we are all just percentages on a personality quiz then do we actually decide our actions our are they just pre-programmed reactions to stimuli based on our experiences and to hell with free will and order.


I decide my behavior, but my attitudes are preprogrammed. It is then up to me to decide whether I obey my attitude, or go against it. Do I argue with someone about the difference between a torque wrench and a torque stick, or do I shut my mouth and say, "It doesn't matter. Arguing over this will only cause strife."


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## Tzara (Dec 21, 2013)

jsawyerwill said:


> because that means justification of their behavior. If we are all just percentages on a personality quiz then do we actually decide our actions our are they just pre-programmed reactions to stimuli based on our experiences and to hell with free will and order.


Quiz? What quiz? MBTI isnt a quiz that gives your personality, if anything you should pick your personality from your actions and mental functions not from a quiz that asks for them.


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## jsawyerwill (Mar 31, 2014)

grandpa2390 said:


> I decide my behavior, but my attitudes are preprogrammed. It is then up to me to decide whether I obey my attitude, or go against it. Do I argue with someone about the difference between a torque wrench and a torque stick, or do I shut my mouth and say, "It doesn't matter. Arguing over this will only cause strife."



well at some point it your life you came to the realization that needless strife is well, needless. and you acted upon your learned behavior. the application of that knowledge is based on predisposition. innate behavior.


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## jsawyerwill (Mar 31, 2014)

Tzara said:


> Quiz? What quiz? MBTI isnt a quiz that gives your personality, if anything you should pick your personality from your actions and mental functions not from a quiz that asks for them.


quiz wasn't the correct word i admit. lets try classification system instead.


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## Tzara (Dec 21, 2013)

jsawyerwill said:


> quiz wasn't the correct word i admit. lets try classification system instead.


Ok ill answer this without the MBTI part,

are we programmed to act this way? I think so. Dont get me wrong, I dont mean a religious way. But I dont think there is "free will".

Thats my personal belief (derived from scientific stuff, no need to state the obvious that its just a hypothesis.)

Anyhow, MBTI is not like that, MBTI is just a grouping system, what you do is up to you. But it tries to predict your actions, and is generally quite successful at it.


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## jsawyerwill (Mar 31, 2014)

Tzara said:


> Ok ill answer this without the MBTI part,
> 
> are we programmed to act this way? I think so. Dont get me wrong, I dont mean a religious way. But I dont think there is "free will".
> 
> ...



I fail to see how the two can coincide, free will and predictable and classifiable actions.


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## Tzara (Dec 21, 2013)

jsawyerwill said:


> I fail to see how the two can coincide, free will and predictable and classifiable actions.


Ill tell you the worst example I can because I just love this example.

Ill put a gun on your head and tell you: If you jump I will shoot.

You are completely* free* to choose weather to jump or not. But you* probably* wont.

Now lets see this again, from a classifiable perspective:
If the person is suicidal (classifying them as suicidal) they have a higher probability of jumping.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So let me give you an MBTI example: (actually pretty much the same example)
God tells you to believe in him or you will burn in hell.
You are free to choose weather to believe or not
An ISFJ has a higher probability to believe.
An ENTP has a higher probability to deny.


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## jsawyerwill (Mar 31, 2014)

Tzara said:


> Ill tell you the worst example I can because I just love this example.
> 
> Ill put a gun on your head and tell you: If you jump I will shoot.
> 
> ...


ok i have a question. or rather a declarative statement. what three things make up a decision? chance, learned behavior, and innate behavior. any corrections?


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## Tzara (Dec 21, 2013)

jsawyerwill said:


> ok i have a question. or rather a declarative statement. what three things make up a decision? chance, learned behavior, and innate behavior. any corrections?


As I told a couple posts above, I dont think decisions exist, but ill explain the way the world accepts it (also what I publicly accept)

there are 3 types of decisions, rational, emotional and intuitive.
So what makes up a decision: 
Chance? Possibly it has effect in it.
learned behavior? Definitely has a major effect.
But what is *innate behaviour*?


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## jsawyerwill (Mar 31, 2014)

well debating is no fun if you agree...:dry:


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## grandpa2390 (Apr 19, 2011)

jsawyerwill said:


> well at some point it your life you came to the realization that needless strife is well, needless. and you acted upon your learned behavior. the application of that knowledge is based on predisposition. innate behavior.


something like that


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## Mercutio (Apr 28, 2013)

Not so much discriminating as generalizing


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## Knight of Ender (Mar 30, 2014)

Yes. The tension between INTPs and INTJs is just riddiculous.


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## Kingdom Crusader (Jan 4, 2012)

I think there's certain jobs I don't get because I'm an introvert at least.


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## Brother (Sep 21, 2013)

monemi said:


> Some of the US military want to use MBTI to identify natural killers. They've concluded ESTP's with higher intelligence make up a larger percentage of the population that are naturally predisposed to kill and wants them identified and use their 'talents' - infantry, armor and special ops. Which would essentially mean that if they did this, identifying as ESTP's in the US military would be more hazardous to your health. Kiddies, if you're signing up for the military, any personality tests, do not test as ESTP.
> https://notes.utk.edu/bio/greenberg.nsf/0/bd7eed04567bfe2b85256e3b002f29c1?OpenDocument
> 
> 'One such test already in use by the military is the _Myers-Briggs_ personality-type test. Considering the characteristics discussed above, the natural killer would most likely be an ESTP (extroverted, sensory, thinking, perceiving) personality type on this test.ESTPs are outgoing, highly adaptive, deal in facts, sensory oriented, excel at sports, learn through life experience, prefer action to conversation and are tough in harsh situations.28 Matching the ESTP personality type to intelligent, caustic, later sons will help identify potential natural killers. The ESTP personality type, coupled with the other associated traits, is not an absolute determinant of a natural killer or a sociopath, but it provides a good baseline. Personality-type testing at initial entry could identify and help place natural killers where they can best employ their talent—in infantry, armor and special operations units.'


Hahahaha, that's actually pretty amazing! Good for them!


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## Grandmaster Yoda (Jan 18, 2014)

My conception was that you take the test then you can decide what is good for you. Unless it's the other way around where you take the test and a company looks at it to say "no a P type wouldn't work out here bye".


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## jsawyerwill (Mar 31, 2014)

Asian_Chick said:


> I think there's certain jobs I don't get because I'm an introvert at least.


Well do you think you would excel at those jobs? I have trouble not doing jobs if they can be done by anyone with an IQ of 50 or higher. I prefer jobs which are the culmination of pioneering and variety. Like a market strategist or a manager. I wanna do a job that allows my creative aspect and influence to be put to good use otherwise it feels like tubing a cheese grater on my face.


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## cannamella (Mar 25, 2014)

To me, knowing personality types helps me to "forgive" their uniqueness as I understand that everyone has their own standards and perspectives.


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## jsawyerwill (Mar 31, 2014)

dyeats said:


> To me, knowing personality types helps me to "forgive" their uniqueness as I understand that everyone has their own standards and perspectives.


So because of their personality types they aren't accountable as much as others for any flaws or flawed actions?


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## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

jsawyerwill said:


> So because of their personality types they aren't accountable as much as others for any flaws or flawed actions?


Why would anyone want to say that? Let's try to find a common ground here and see where people are coming from.

People all have their own perspectives. Even when we try to get outside of those things, we still tend to see the world as we are, rather than as the world is or how someone else might see it, and we have to jolt ourselves sometimes or consciously remain open -- even when we are pretty sure we understand where others are coming from, sometimes we might not.

Personality, religion, culture, age, gender, family, interests, all of these things if we know them about someone can give us an idea of where they MIGHT be coming from so that we don't immediately get locked in and misinterpret. 

No one is talking about making excuses for someone else, we're just talking about being flexible and open-minded enough to not immediately think we know what's going on. personality type's a perfectly fine place to start, but it's just a beginning.

As far as personality types and their respective flaws go, I'll say as a parent that I had to tailor it to each of my kids. My expectations had to be realistic. Yes, there are some things I think I couldn't budge on (respect, honesty, etc.), but I had to also be realistic about how difficult something was (versus easy) for each of them, and that would tailor my response, how hard I pushed, how I approached them, what kind of results were reasonable, etc.

As adults, of course, it's more mutual, but it's the same idea. If you want to be effective and achieve your aims, you need to take other people's strengths and weaknesses into account... as well as your own. There are some things I can be better at but are harder for me (such as organization, being decisive, etc.), and i've appreciated people taking that into consideration instead of just judging me as a bad person in some way because those things are harder for me. It doesn't mean I don't work at them, but they're not things I do easily because they don't play into my strengths. And the same goes for every person.


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## cannamella (Mar 25, 2014)

Thank you @Jennywocky for such a very good answer


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## Kingdom Crusader (Jan 4, 2012)

jsawyerwill said:


> Well do you think you would excel at those jobs? I have trouble not doing jobs if they can be done by anyone with an IQ of 50 or higher. I prefer jobs which are the culmination of pioneering and variety. Like a market strategist or a manager. I wanna do a job that allows my creative aspect and influence to be put to good use otherwise it feels like tubing a cheese grater on my face.


I think I do well at some of these jobs, like say bartending. These are just jobs I need to have while in school. But yeah, I definitely need a job that engages my Ti-Ne and interest. My dream is to be able to come up with an insight or contribution of some sort (however small) related to cancer research and/or infectious diseases.


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## INTP_Polly (Apr 11, 2014)

jsawyerwill said:


> I see the edges of discourse in other forms, the NT forms generally are careless to such things but discrimination seems almost natural no matter what reason is given for it. Is personality types just some people excuse to dislike or hate others?


"Some People" Most likely. I use it to explain the discourse between me and other types. Yes I can be a little jaded sounding because of it but I was being discriminated against based on my personality by others long before I had any awareness of typing. I am an INTP female, the complete opposite of the stereotypical female personality. There are a lot of people out there who want to dislike me because I don't follow the rules just by existing. I am POSITIVE they can find all kinds of traits in my profile that they could conjure up reasons why they are bad.


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## VIIZZY (Mar 22, 2014)

From a personal perspective I can't say I've discriminated against anyone based on personality type, I rather avoid typing others usually. 

I won't deny I've seen some threads on perc that make me role my eyes at the discriminatory natures of them so I can see where personality types can be used as a tool for discrimination.


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