# Complementary Pairs: Idealists and Rationals



## Paradox of Vigor

I have noticed many NFs claiming that they find relationships with we NTs to their distaste, as well as NTs, SPs, and SJs, of course, but this is in more regards to the NFs. I think that some of them do not fully understand these type dynamics, and why they work the way they work. 

Obviously, we all have characteristic preferences. I personally have an abundance of criteria for mate-selection, as you might call it. However, these criterion are directed not at temperament and type you realize, but more on a characteristic level.

For instance, we know that four INTPs can stand next to each other and be four VERY different people. One is Catholic, the other Jewish, the next Christian, and the last Atheist, causing an automatic abundance of differences between each individual. Our religions are called characteristics; the latter of temperament.

Let us examine a model of existence...

Human
Gender
Temperament
Character
Talent

This shows what we each are before anything else. We are therefore humans before anything. Which type of human? Male or Female? Then we are born with our temperament or type. Our character is developed next with opinions and literal identity we are bestowed with based on the experience and thoughts of our lives. If we practice in areas of our character, or skills that we are associated with, we then become talented in that area. For instance... do not just about all of we here on Personality Cafe know quite a bit about human temperament? You could say that we are all talented in this area, causing us to join together here online at this forum, where we share many of our opinions and personal knowledge.

When selecting a mate, we tend to look more towards character, rather than temperament, which is where the distaste comes from. In fact, we unconsciously look for those of our temperament in the other's character, and vice versa for consciousness. For instance...

NT Mate Selection
Unconscious: want NF Temperament
Conscious: want similar characteristics

NF Mate Selection
Unconscious: want NT Temperament
Conscious: want similar characteristics

SJ Mate Selection
Unconscious: want SP Temperament
Conscious: want similar characteristics

SP Mate Selection
Unconscious: want SJ Temperament
Conscious: want similar characteristics

We can think of temperament as a starting point for character and talent. It is the former of what we aspire to be, in a sense. One INTJ can be a dumbass, while the other is Stephan Hawking. The thing is... only one of them aspired to their true potential in talent, which for NTs, is known as Strategic Intelligence.

So then why do NFs need to be with NTs? Why does this work out if they don't much consciously look for the other? Well we need to examine the perspective of an empirical thinker straight out of his book, _Please Understand Me II_ to really find out.


*The Idealist Soulmate*​
Idealists approach mating quite differently from the other three temperaments. In their own ways the other types tend to be realistic about mating, which is to say that Artisans, Guardians, and Rationals assume their mates to be fallible, and they will go along with a good deal of compromise in making their marriages work. Idealists, on the other hand, are singularly idealistic about choosing a mate, and most often take up the romantic task of seeking the perfect mate and the ideal relationship, what they call the "love of their life" or their "one true love," joined with them in a match made in heaven and creating a love timeless and eternal. In other words, NFs are looking for more than life partners in their mates -- they want soul partners, persons with whom they can bond in some special spiritual sense, sharing their complex inner lives and communicating intimately about what most concerns them: their inner feelings and their causes, their romantic fantasies and their ethical dilemmas, their inner division and their search for wholeness. Idealists firmly believe in such deep and meaningful relationships -- they will settle for nothing less -- and in some cases they try to creat them where they don't exist.

Finding the rare person with whom they can share their inner world is difficult for Idealists, a painful process of trial and error, and often they vow not to date at all for periods of time rather than go through the search. For NFs, dating someone means more than physical fun or social acceptance; it is an opening of their heart and mind to the other person, in some cases a baring of their soul, and carries with it both a promise and an expectation of deep regard and mutual understanding. And becaues they are offering so much of themselves to the other, and expecting so much in return, NFs are highly sensitive to rejection, and can be deeply hurt when spurned by another, or when having to break off a relationship themselves. The trauma of breaking up can be so difficult for Idealists that at times tey will avoid getting involved with hothers for fear of things not working out, or, at the other extreme, they will remain in a relationship longer than they should just to off the soul-hurting scene of rejection.

_(That pretty well sums up the overall essence of what's going on in the usual NF romantic world, there is of course, much more information)_

*Idealist Pairings​*Creating warm, loving relationships is indeed second nature to Idealists, and they weave their interpersonal spell in marriages with all the temperaments. Still, there can be trouble in paradise.​
*Idealist - Artisan:* Idealists thoroughly enjoy their Artisan mates' freedom and spontaneity in the real world, and they admire the ease with which SPs ca live artfully in the moment, so different from their own often torn, conscious-stricken experience of life. Also the sensuality and sexual boldness of SP mates can intrigue NFs and fire their romantic imaginations. However, there is one potent seed of dissatisfaction in these NF-SP marriages, namely, the lack of interest that SPs have in talking of their inner lives. When an Idealist speaks of the "true self," of "transcendental meditation," or of "deep consciousness," their Artisan mates do not really understand and cannot offer much enthusiasm or insight on such abstract topics. And, sadly, it is from this seed that Pygmalion Projects grow in these relationships, as the Idelast partners try wit hall their imaginative might to cultivate a heightened inner-awareness in their Artisan mates.

*Idealist - Guardian:* With Guardian mates Idealists find a comfortable, reassuring stability and dependability in the home, traits which can help give the somewhat scattered NFs a feeling of solid earth beneath their feet. SJs also have a firmly fixed moral center -- a sure sense of right and wrong -- that Idealists, so often of two minds about moral issues, deeply respect. And Idealists and Guardians are both social cooperators, which defuses a lot of conflict over following, or at least respecting, the rules and laws that govern everyday life. Yet here again Guardians have trouble sharing the rich inner lives of Iealists, and can disappoint their NF mates' deep longing for soulful bonding and romantic sexuality. The Guardian might listen dutifully to the Idealist's flights of imagination, and might try to be more fanciful and passionate in order to please the NF, but sooner or later the SJ feels unappreciated and begin to resist the force of the NF's Pygmalion Project -- and the result can be head-on battles.

*Idealist - Idealist:* Idealists have much less trouble with mates of their own temperament, and Idealists often get along exceptionally well with other Idealists. Two NFs can find deepfelt satisfaction in sharing each other's inner world and exploring each other's personal development, alrhough of the pair ar etoo much alike in their ethicla concerns, or pursue the same spiritual goals for too long a time, they can become rather narrowly devotedto the pilgrims's journey and tire themselves out along the way. In addition, two empathic NFs can create a wonderfully intimate bond for a time, but eventually such mutual introjection can also invade each partner's privacy -- constantly getting into each other's skin can result in getting on each other's nerves.

*Idealist - Rational:* The choice of a Rational mate seems to hold the best promise of success for Idealists. The basis of their compatibility is that NFs and NTs both live primarily in the world of abstract concepts -- the world of theories and possibilities, of insights and symbols. After dating more down-to-earth, literal-minded Artisans and Guardians, an Idealist's first encounter with a Rational can be a revelation, putting the NF in touch with a new and intriguing typeof person, somone eager and able (like the NF) to dream the world, to build castles in the air, and to see far distances with the mind's eye. AAlso fascinating is the Rational's calmness and autonomy, two characteristics which gives the NT a strength of character -- a firm grasp of who they are -- that the easily ruffled, soul-searching NF greatly admires, and would like to emulate.
These Idealist - Rational relationships do not always remain harminous, of course. Conflicts of NF emotional expressiveness against NT self-control, of NF intuition against NT logic, and of NF ethical or humanitarian concerns against NT technical pragmatics can prove challenging in even the best Idealist - Rational marriages. Indeed, NFs often come to regard their NT mates resistance to expressing emotion, their seemingly aloof rationality, and their preference for what works over what's right as barriers to be broken down, or at least chipped at with Pygmalion's chisel. But while sparks might fly -- or maybe because of the sparks -- Idealists take to Rationals as to no other temperament.

Again the NF information is not original it is from _Please Understand Me II_ by David Keirsey. 

So before we go out of our way and say that we do not agree with the complementary pair ideas of the MBTI and KTT, we should re-examine the differences between character and the vague but famous thing called temperament, or type. Remember: preferences are characteristic; the latter of temperament, so they are two very different things and should be regarded as such if we want to correctly making mate-selecting decisions.

This is another, more specific section out of the book(more for fun):

*Teachers and Architects:* have every chance of being well suited. The educator or growth-catalyst inherant in the expressive and scheduling Teacher(ENFJ) wants to bring out the latent talents in his or her loved ones, and what better target than the reserved and probing Architect(INTP)? For beneath the Architect's cool, collected, detached, and doubting exterior, lies an engineer of buildings, machines, tools, operations, languages, mathematics, or whatever can be engineered. If, that is, the diamond-in-the-rough can be inspired to fulfill his or her potential.

*Counselors and Inventors:* are apt to fit extremely well together. The reserved and schedule-minded Counselors(INFJs), with their complex, mysterious, symbolic inner worlds, tend to become trapped in introspection and tied in ethical knots, and they can be freed up considerably by the outgoing and probing Inventors(ENTPs). Counselors might also find great satisfaction in trying to help the non-conformist, sometimes even reckless Inventors find their soul and significance in the scheme of things.

*Champions and Masterminds:* should match up well. Champions (the expressive and probing ENFPs) are much like Healers in their crusader phase, fiercely dedicatee to meaning in life and looking into everything of good and evil in he world. Only Champions are more outgoing and high-spirited, and more outspoken about their discoveries, not unlike puppies, sniffing around to see what's new and then barking to let everyone know what they've found. Now who would be likely to enjoy this curious, frisky -- yet soulful -- person? Strangely, perhaps, the well-ordered, strong-willed Masterminds (the highly reserved and well-scheduled INTJs) can find a vital connection to the outside world in the person who knows what's going on.

*Healers and Fieldmarshals:* are likely to find great satisfaction marrying each other. Healers (the reserved and probing INFPs) have more problems in mating than any other type, no doubt due to their fervent viewof life as either a crusade aginst evil or a retreat into religious contemplation -- and the same Healer can tack back adn forth, now a crusader, now a monastic. In either case, their spouse will be taxed by having to deal wit hsuch spiritual intensity, and the expressvie and scheduling Fieldmarshals(ENTJ), busily marshalling his or her forces toward distant objectives, seems well equipped to handle this alternating-phase style of life, able, that is, to provide clear direction to a person who might otherwise get lost in mediation or in devotion to a cause.

*I know that we iNtuitives have been in relationships; ones we particularly enjoyed, are currently in, and had a complete distaste for. Any type is welcome in for discussion, but I want as many experiences as possible for a well-rounded discussion into the subject matter. TYPE YOUR EXES AND LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THOUGHT OF THEM, OR GIVE US SOME INFO ON YOUR CURRENT RELATIONSHIP, or just join in and let us know what you think. *

- Thanks


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## Aelthwyn

I definately agree that NF-NT reationships can be really great, but there do seem to be an awefull lot of them that go bad on account of the T-F conflicts. I have several great NT friends, I've been hurt very deeply by one of them, but we pulled through and are now good friends again. I've always been attracted by NTs, but in the long run, I've found that I feel most comfortable with a fellow F for my home-partner/mate. I feel much more secure with another F, and I think this is because of the emotional closeness I sense with them. In spite of truely loveing, admiring, and enjoying NTs, I just haven't had that real sense of "Home" with any of them. I just get this sense of independance and individuality from them which doesn't have the same level of 'one-ness' that I sense in other Fs, and NFs in particular. I have two best friends (other than my husband), an INFP and an INTP. I have often thought to myself that if I had been a guy instead of a girl my INFP best friend would have absolutely been my true love. I would have been so smitten with her from the instant we met, it would have been like the fairy tales. As it is we have this extreemly close feeling in spite of hardly ever getting to talk with eachother, there's just this mystical spirits-joined-at-the-hip thing with her. Whereas with my INTP best friend I feel like she is family, but more like blood related than soul-related, if that makes any sense. We care deeply about eachother, have a lot of the same habits, interests, and values, and most of the time we get along spectacularly, but although I've spent more time with her than anyone else (besides my mother) in my entire life, I still feel a greater sense of distance and not-oneness with her than I do with the Feelers who are dear to me. 

I am married quite happily to an ISFP (he tested INFJ but related more with the ISFP profile). We do seem to have crazy communication issues from time to time where we both have no clue what the other is trying to say to us, heh, but for the most part we feel like soul-twins. Idealistic, artsy, sensitive, empathetic, quiet, etc. we share so many traits. I also feel that our S/N-ness fullfills for each of us a side of ourselves which we have interest in but just haven't developed as well. I love making all kinds of art/craft things, however I tend to be impatient with the process and spend more time immagining than actually honing my skills. He, on the otherhand, is constantly working on something, constantly developing his technique and can make my 'dreams' come to life with amazing skill! Meanwhile, he's fascinated by philosophy, religion, and fantasy, but when he doesn't have something to do with his hands he tends to get bored, so he doesn't do half as much reading or contemplating as he thinks he'd like to, while I do almost nothing but think and read, and then share my thoughts with him while he's working on something, or read out loud. It works out quite well, each of us giving eachother a little extra nudge towards, and help with, the things we like but aren't as driven to do on our own.


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## Paradox of Vigor

Aelthwyn said:


> I definately agree that NF-NT reationships can be really great, but there do seem to be an awefull lot of them that go bad on account of the T-F conflicts. I have several great NT friends, I've been hurt very deeply by one of them, but we pulled through and are now good friends again. I've always been attracted by NTs, but in the long run, I've found that I feel most comfortable with a fellow F for my home-partner/mate. I feel much more secure with another F, and I think this is because of the emotional closeness I sense with them. In spite of truely loveing, admiring, and enjoying NTs, I just haven't had that real sense of "Home" with any of them. I just get this sense of independance and individuality from them which doesn't have the same level of 'one-ness' that I sense in other Fs, and NFs in particular. I have two best friends (other than my husband), an INFP and an INTP. I have often thought to myself that if I had been a guy instead of a girl my INFP best friend would have absolutely been my true love. I would have been so smitten with her from the instant we met, it would have been like the fairy tales. As it is we have this extreemly close feeling in spite of hardly ever getting to talk with eachother, there's just this mystical spirits-joined-at-the-hip thing with her. Whereas with my INTP best friend I feel like she is family, but more like blood related than soul-related, if that makes any sense. We care deeply about eachother, have a lot of the same habits, interests, and values, and most of the time we get along spectacularly, but although I've spent more time with her than anyone else (besides my mother) in my entire life, I still feel a greater sense of distance and not-oneness with her than I do with the Feelers who are dear to me.
> 
> I am married quite happily to an ISFP (he tested INFJ but related more with the ISFP profile). We do seem to have crazy communication issues from time to time where we both have no clue what the other is trying to say to us, heh, but for the most part we feel like soul-twins. Idealistic, artsy, sensitive, empathetic, quiet, etc. we share so many traits. I also feel that our S/N-ness fullfills for each of us a side of ourselves which we have interest in but just haven't developed as well. I love making all kinds of art/craft things, however I tend to be impatient with the process and spend more time immagining than actually honing my skills. He, on the otherhand, is constantly working on something, constantly developing his technique and can make my 'dreams' come to life with amazing skill! Meanwhile, he's fascinated by philosophy, religion, and fantasy, but when he doesn't have something to do with his hands he tends to get bored, so he doesn't do half as much reading or contemplating as he thinks he'd like to, while I do almost nothing but think and read, and then share my thoughts with him while he's working on something, or read out loud. It works out quite well, each of us giving eachother a little extra nudge towards, and help with, the things we like but aren't as driven to do on our own.


Hmm, the two types opposite of the double complementary pair working out well? Unlikely but not impossible, so that's awesome for you two. That probably indicates that the both of you have very well developed characters and talents. The only reason I'm such a bastard about types and relationships is that I'm a bastard about type... and relationships. Hahahaha.

Maybe I set my criteria too high for women, but I doubt it.


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## The Hungry One

This was an interesting read. It reminds me of the speech my INTJ friend gave me about why we should go out.
I agree with Aelthwyn about the T-F conflict. 

I was extremely surprised when this post matched INFPs with ENTJs. 
The very letters E N T and J look evil to me. 

ENTPs are a bit better. ESTPS are excitinger. Perfection...
has not yet been discovered.

EDIT: I just noticed...you _are_ an INTJ. Cool.


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## vENOMIZEd

The Hungry One said:


> I was extremely surprised when this post matched INFPs with ENTJs.
> The very letters E N T and J look evil to me.


Thanks!

Take a look at this:

INFP & ENTJ compatibility, relationships

* INFP & ENTJ compatibility, relationships *


Looking at the letters of these two types one would think they don't mix well because they only have one letter in common, and that's N for intuition. While it's true that *INFPs and ENTJs* are different in many aspects, it is far from truth that these two types don't have common ground. In fact, this match is very close to ideal if both persons involved are mature enough to tolerate and respect a different way of thinking.

*Why ENTJs and INFPs are compatible...*

One of the most important things in relationships is communication. We know that sensing and intuitive personalities communicate and think in different ways. Intuitive people are more abstract and sensing people are more concrete and literal. Luckily our ENTJ+INFP match shares a common N which gives them the ability to really see where the other person is coming from. There will always be a feeling of understanding in this relationship even though both personalities realize they are quite different from each other.

Another positive factor is that INFPs and ENTJs have the same judging functions, extroverted thinking (Te) and introverted feeling (Fi). It's true that ENTJs are much more apt with Te and INFPs with Fi but if both persons are open to self improvement this relationship can bring balance to their lives. In this relationship it's pretty clear who is the rational thinking one and who is the compassionate caring one. There is no competition here, only respect and admiration.

*What does each type get from this relationship...*

INFPs have a penchant for getting lost in life, as they are one of the most dreamy personalities, and ENTJs can anchor them and bring them back to reality. What they get in return is someone who can inspire them and help them connect with their human side. It's not that ENTJs don't have a human side, it's that they are so goal oriented that sometimes they block out all other areas of life including friends and family in favor of higher goals.

Both these personalities place great importance on loyalty, genuineness and both these personalities dislike fake displays of affection and fakeness in general. This can form a great, unbreakable bond between an *INFP and an ENTJ*.

_*Possible stumbling blocks...

- ENTJ being too critical and blunt
- ENTJ being directive or controlling
- INFP ignoring logic
- INFP being too sensitive to criticism*_


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## Paradox of Vigor

The Hungry One said:


> This was an interesting read. It reminds me of the speech my INTJ friend gave me about why we should go out.
> I agree with Aelthwyn about the T-F conflict.
> 
> I was extremely surprised when this post matched INFPs with ENTJs.
> The very letters E N T and J look evil to me.
> 
> ENTPs are a bit better. ESTPS are excitinger. Perfection...
> has not yet been discovered.
> 
> EDIT: I just noticed...you _are_ an INTJ. Cool.


You ever met an ENTJ? They will make you shit your pants with their discussions. It's just as Keirsey says, only they can truly keep up with them. You would think ENTP, but it's not the same style. ENTJs command unlike any other type, far better, and with true strategy in human coordination. NTPs are engineers, NTJs are coordinators. vENOMIZEd has it down well.


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## The Hungry One

Paradox of Vigor said:


> You ever met an ENTJ? They will make you shit your pants with their discussions. It's just as Keirsey says, only they can truly keep up with them. You would think ENTP, but it's not the same style. ENTJs command unlike any other type, far better, and with true strategy in human coordination. NTPs are engineers, NTJs are coordinators. vENOMIZEd has it down well.


I'm not sure...I must look up famous ENTJs. I just know personally I dislike domineering types.


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## Paradox of Vigor

The Hungry One said:


> I'm not sure...I must look up famous ENTJs. I just know personally I dislike domineering types.


Nobody likes domineering types. ENTJs would never be listened to if they were bastards about their orders. The aura they give off is far from domineering. When under their command you feel like YOU have control, because you do; they just coordinate it. It's like: do this, but do it however you want.

Napoleon much? If his troops didn't think they were in control would he have been able to take over Europe? They knew Napoleon was nothing without them, and vice versa. A true strategist of warfare gives the combatants control in the direction they are given.


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## Aelthwyn

Paradox of Vigor said:


> Hmm, the two types opposite of the double complementary pair working out well?


double complimentary? I'm not sure what this means. having 2 opposite traits? or the same functions, just in opposite order?

I think it works really well for me and my husband because we share the dominant Fi, and our personal values and ideals happen to be very closely matched. Since we're both dedicated to the same values and ideals we are very much on the 'same page.' We seem to go about things in very much the same way and have the same kinds of expectations for the most part, so we don't have to do much adjustment or compromise or putting up with eachother, everything just flows naturally and fits comfortably.


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## Paradox of Vigor

Aelthwyn said:


> double complimentary? I'm not sure what this means. having 2 opposite traits? or the same functions, just in opposite order?
> 
> I think it works really well for me and my husband because we share the dominant Fi, and our personal values and ideals happen to be very closely matched. Since we're both dedicated to the same values and ideals we are very much on the 'same page.' We seem to go about things in very much the same way and have the same kinds of expectations for the most part, so we don't have to do much adjustment or compromise or putting up with eachother, everything just flows naturally and fits comfortably.


Like I said it's not impossible for these relationships to work well. 

Complementary Pairs are:
NFs and NTs
SPs and SJs

Double Complementary Pairs are:
Sharing only the second letter; all others differ.

Taking the cognitive function perspective is nice, but it just doesn't come to the closure that it needs to. Too many inconsistencies and arguments, not that I am arguing with you of course. Nothing you said could be "incorrect" it just proves that there are some instances that there are exceptions to the rule, which I find great, but the rule still stands. Characteristic traits are desirable, temperament is necessary.


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## under skies

I'm surprised at the presumption that an ENTJ could even find an INFP attractive (although I admit I probably largely rely on NT stereotypes).

On the other hand, I feel this is a good point:



> In this relationship it's pretty clear who is the rational thinking one and who is the compassionate caring one. There is no competition here, only respect and admiration.
> 
> [source]


And, for the record, I have no distaste of NTs or relationships with them. ...I just find them somewhat intimidating, and I've generally assumed it's NTs who prefer other NTs over NFs.


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## Mr.Xl Vii

under skies said:


> And, for the record, I have no distaste of NTs or relationships with them. ...I just find them somewhat intimidating, and I've generally assumed it's NTs who prefer other NTs over NFs.


It depends on the NT. Personally I've always been really partial to NF girls. I've met a few NT girls here and there though, and I wont lie they are really sexy, but NFs make me actually feel for once, and I sort of like that. When I'm not around them or single, I'm pretty callous and uncaring, but they bring out the inner sap in me, which is what a relationship is about I think.


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## Katherine

Mr.Xl Vii said:


> I'm pretty callous and uncaring, but they bring out the inner sap in me


Maple syrup anyone? I like the image of NTs as trees being tapped.


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## The Proof

OP should give proper credit to keirsey

also an INFJ will hate an INTP's attitude, INTPs are better off with INFPs, because in that relationship the INTP can be a jerk while also being content that he found a mate (einstein married his schoolmate lol) and the INFP can just imagine whatever the hell it wants, even if it's the opposite of what's real


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## Bago

I believe those pairings.
NT + NF = for me, I imagine it to be like the macho guy looking after the damsel in distress, kind of scenario
NF + NF = the intimate soulful emotional bonding, with reassurance, kind of scenario


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## Logical Ambivert Feeler

as an NF guy iv found two amazng girls, both NFs (INFP and ENFJ)
I'd prefer and NF rather than an NT girl, even though I have some NT girl friends, I see them as people to debate and joke with rather than people to look after and have a deep emotional bond (NF)


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## Kestrel

I'm not sure I agree with the INFP/ENTJ combination, or the ENFP/INTJ combination. This isn't from experience, it just feels off. However, INFJ/ENTP does make sense to me and I have often thought about the INTP/ENFJ combination.

One thing I disagree with in your post is the notion that like-minded individuals aren't suited for each other. Moreover, it isn't always a conscious want to be with someone of the same temperament. To begin with, I'd always found myself highly attracted to SPs. When I learned the hard way what a terrible match they make for someone like me, I began looking at NFs and only recently came to realise that fellow NTs may be the ideal match for me, after encountering a fellow INTP.

I don't know if this is common to INTPs, but I think that for me, the ideal match would be either an ENFJ or a fellow INTP.


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## OrangeAppled

Blech. Keirsey makes NFs sound like such flakes. 

None of the bolded is true of me...




> Idealists approach mating quite differently from the other three temperaments. *In their own ways the other types tend to be realistic about mating, which is to say that Artisans, Guardians, and Rationals assume their mates to be fallible, and they will go along with a good deal of compromise in making their marriages work.*


I have realistic expectations AND I compromise. This idea that NFs expect marriage & love to be like a fairy tale is insulting. An NF associated strength is having a solid grasp of human relationships, and that includes handling problems & understanding conflicts.




> *Idealist - Artisan:* Idealists thoroughly enjoy their Artisan mates' freedom and spontaneity in the real world, and they admire the ease with which SPs ca live artfully in the moment, so different from their own often torn, conscious-stricken experience of life. Also the sensuality and sexual boldness of SP mates can intrigue NFs and fire their romantic imaginations. However, there is one potent seed of dissatisfaction in these NF-SP marriages, namely, the lack of interest that SPs have in talking of their inner lives. When an Idealist speaks of the "true self," of "transcendental meditation," or of "deep consciousness," their Artisan mates do not really understand and cannot offer much enthusiasm or insight on such abstract topics. And, sadly, it is from this seed that Pygmalion Projects grow in these relationships, as the Idelast partners try wit hall their imaginative might to cultivate a heightened inner-awareness in their Artisan mates.


In fairness to SPs, I find this untrue of some SFPs in particular, due to the influence of Fi. Read any Fi-dom description & then tell me an ISFP is not going to be introspective in ways.



> *Idealist - Guardian:* With Guardian mates Idealists find a comfortable, reassuring stability and dependability in the home, traits which can help give the somewhat * scattered NFs* a feeling of solid earth beneath their feet. SJs also have a firmly fixed moral center -- a sure sense of right and wrong -- that * Idealists, so often of two minds about moral issues*, deeply respect. And Idealists and Guardians are both social cooperators, which defuses a lot of conflict over following, or at least *respecting, the rules and laws that govern everyday life*. Yet here again Guardians have trouble sharing the rich inner lives of Iealists, and can disappoint their NF mates' deep longing for soulful bonding and romantic sexuality. The Guardian might listen dutifully to the Idealist's flights of imagination, and might try to be more fanciful and passionate in order to please the NF, but sooner or later the SJ feels unappreciated and begin to resist the force of the NF's Pygmalion Project -- and the result can be head-on battles.


Now NFs are flakes who don't know how they feel about moral issues? Funny how that contrasts with descriptions of Fe & Fi (as NFs will have one or the other). NFs do not tend to like rules & laws, so I'm not sure what that's about either. They may not be openly rebellious, but there's too much focus on their individual identity to succumb easily to rules which can suffocate it.




> *Idealist - Rational:* *Also fascinating is the Rational's calmness and autonomy, two characteristics which gives the NT a strength of character -- a firm grasp of who they are -- that the easily ruffled, soul-searching NF greatly admires, and would like to emulate.*
> These Idealist - Rational relationships do not always remain harminous, of course. *Conflicts of NF emotional expressiveness against NT self-control,* of NF intuition against NT logic, and of NF ethical or humanitarian concerns against NT technical pragmatics can prove challenging in even the best Idealist - Rational marriages.


 And here again NFs are painted as flaky, not knowing who they are. I feel the exact opposite; I know who I am, what I want, and what I feel very well. Painting NT lack of emotional expression as "self-controlled" is a joke also, and it indirectly implies NFs are NOT self-controlled, which is quite at odds with a temperament that is supposed to be all about ethics, self-searching, & harmonious relations.




> *Healers and Fieldmarshals:* are likely to find great satisfaction marrying each other. Healers (the reserved and probing INFPs) have more problems in mating than any other type, no doubt due to their fervent viewof life as either a crusade aginst evil or a retreat into religious contemplation -- and the same Healer can tack back adn forth, now a crusader, now a monastic. In either case, their spouse will be taxed by having to deal wit hsuch spiritual intensity, and the expressvie and scheduling Fieldmarshals(ENTJ), busily marshalling his or her forces toward distant objectives, seems well equipped to handle this alternating-phase style of life, able, that is, to provide clear direction to a person who might otherwise get lost in mediation or in devotion to a cause.


What?!! 

I reject any pairing that sounds like the other type is going to save the INFP from themselves, as if we can't function in life without some XXXX type to tell us what to do. BARF.

I'll tell you what I need: someone who respects my intelligence, my autonomy, my creativity and supports my endeavors, shares some of my goals, and provides encouragement. I don't need or want someone to direct my life, and I especially won't tolerate being treated like a child.


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## Kestrel

OrangeAppled said:


> Blech. Keirsey makes NFs sound like such flakes.
> 
> None of the bolded is true of me...
> 
> 
> I have realistic expectations AND I compromise. This idea that NFs expect marriage & love to be like a fairy tale is insulting. An NF associated strength is having a solid grasp of human relationships, and that includes handling problems & understanding conflicts.
> 
> 
> In fairness to SPs, I find this untrue of some SFPs in particular, due to the influence of Fi. Read any Fi-dom description & then tell me an ISFP is not going to be introspective in ways.
> 
> Now NFs are flakes who don't know how they feel about moral issues? Funny how that contrasts with descriptions of Fe & Fi (as NFs will have one or the other). NFs do not tend to like rules & laws, so I'm not sure what that's about either. They may not be openy rebellious, but there's too much focus on their individual identity to succumb easily to rules which can suffocate it.
> 
> 
> And here again NFs are painted as flaky, not knowing who they are. I feel the exact opposite; I know who I am, what I want, and what I feel very well. Painting NT lack of emotional expression as "self-controlled" is a joke also, and it indirectly implies NFs are NOT self-controlled, which is quite at odds with a temperament that is supposed to be all about ethics, self-searching, & harmonious relations.
> 
> 
> What?!!
> 
> I reject any pairing that sounds like the other type is going to save the INFP from themselves, as if we can't function in life without some XXXX type to tell us what to do. BARF.
> 
> I'll tell you what I need: someone who respects my intelligence, my autonomy, my creativity and supports my endeavors, shares some of my goals, and provides encouragement. I don't need or want someone to direct my life, and I especially won't tolerate being treated like a child.


Well, I find myself intrigued and aroused by your indomitable spirit and critical thinking skills. Can _I_ whisk you away, mebbe?


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## OrangeAppled

Kestrel said:


> Well, I find myself intrigued and aroused by your indomitable spirit and critical thinking skills. Can _I_ whisk you away, mebbe?


Sorry, but I don't swing that way. And by "that way", I mean girls _and_ INTPs :tongue:


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