# some interesting things on intertype relations



## Felipe (Feb 25, 2016)

I haven't seen many posts about this so I'm just going to thow it out here. Have you noticed how:

-your quasi indentical is the dual type of your conflictor

-your supervisor is the dual type of your benefactor which in turn is the supervisor of your dual

-your beneficiary is the supervisor of your extinguish(er) and benefactor of your super ego

Also I'd like to ask about the Reinin dichotomy Aristocract vs Democrat and if it has anything to do with someone's political views. I considered myself to be generally democrat throughout life but then there are some occasions where I can be extremely elitist and Aristocratic, so how can I really spot the difference? Most people I've encountered seems to me are Aristocratic I think. Or maybe this is one of those dichotomies not to be taken too seriously, I don't know.


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## DavidH (Apr 21, 2017)

Felipe said:


> I haven't seen many posts about this so I'm just going to thow it out here. Have you noticed how:
> 
> -your quasi indentical is the dual type of your conflictor
> 
> ...


On the political compass, Aristocratic is the top half and Democratic is the bottom half. Fe valuing is the left half and Fi valuing is the right half.


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## mrrrmaid (Aug 11, 2018)

DavidH said:


> On the political compass, Aristocratic is the top half and Democratic is the bottom half. Fe valuing is the left half and Fi valuing is the right half.


I feel like its a bit of a stretch to call Fe left wing and Fi right wing. Fe right wingers include Hitler (EIE), Trump (SLE) and Joffrey Baratheon lol (EIE). Fi left wingers include Hunter S Thompson (ESI), Bob Dylan (ESI) and Russell Brand (IEE). 

As for aristocratic being the authoritarian half - also a stretch, particularly with delta, I'm feeling. I think delta aristocracy recognises status and hard work but not hierarchies in the same way as Beta does. I.e. the shire is often characterised as an example of a delta society and there is no authoritarianism there (though there is aristocracy between groups and certain sort of order). Nick Offerman = a libertarian aristocrat (SLI). I think delta can be quite anarchic in the sense that there isn't a clear leader as such but people in the group are left to do their own thing, as long as they aren't going against the group (like Bilbo, Merry & Pippin in the Shire example). Beta I can see it a little more but still not enough to make a strong connection. Being the top half of the political compass = believing the state should be in charge, which I don't think aristocrats automatically believe (and some might actively reject that and build their own hierarchies - this is where Beta would fit). Though noticeably beta revolutions usually end in order, hierarchy and structure (Stalin, LSI; Castro & Guevara, EIE & LSI).

I'm newish to socionics so someone feel free to jump in and correct me if this is wrong - but I think aristocratic vs democratic is more to do with status and group inclusion than politics. Aristocratic = clearly defined groups, 'with us or against us' (particularly beta on this one), respecting hierarchies and a sense of having to earn / prove your place. Think 'in' crowds (where you either have 'it' or don't), gangs, family businesses, political parties. Democratic is more like you have individual merit and everyone has a chance to prove themselves and turn at speaking. Alpha is known for free expression where anyone can submit an idea to the group, which yeah is pretty bottom left corner of the political compass.


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## DavidH (Apr 21, 2017)

mrrrmaid said:


> I feel like its a bit of a stretch to call Fe left wing and Fi right wing. Fe right wingers include Hitler (EIE), Trump (SLE) and Joffrey Baratheon lol (EIE). Fi left wingers include Hunter S Thompson (ESI), Bob Dylan (ESI) and Russell Brand (IEE).
> 
> As for aristocratic being the authoritarian half - also a stretch, particularly with delta, I'm feeling. I think delta aristocracy recognises status and hard work but not hierarchies in the same way as Beta does. I.e. the shire is often characterised as an example of a delta society and there is no authoritarianism there (though there is aristocracy between groups and certain sort of order). Nick Offerman = a libertarian aristocrat (SLI). I think delta can be quite anarchic in the sense that there isn't a clear leader as such but people in the group are left to do their own thing, as long as they aren't going against the group (like Bilbo, Merry & Pippin in the Shire example). Beta I can see it a little more but still not enough to make a strong connection. Being the top half of the political compass = believing the state should be in charge, which I don't think aristocrats automatically believe (and some might actively reject that and build their own hierarchies - this is where Beta would fit). Though noticeably beta revolutions usually end in order, hierarchy and structure (Stalin, LSI; Castro & Guevara, EIE & LSI).
> 
> I'm newish to socionics so someone feel free to jump in and correct me if this is wrong - but I think aristocratic vs democratic is more to do with status and group inclusion than politics. Aristocratic = clearly defined groups, 'with us or against us' (particularly beta on this one), respecting hierarchies and a sense of having to earn / prove your place. Think 'in' crowds (where you either have 'it' or don't), gangs, family businesses, political parties. Democratic is more like you have individual merit and everyone has a chance to prove themselves and turn at speaking. Alpha is known for free expression where anyone can submit an idea to the group, which yeah is pretty bottom left corner of the political compass.


Your typings are all wrong.


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## mrrrmaid (Aug 11, 2018)

DavidH said:


> Your typings are all wrong.


they're mostly not my typings since I'm a newb, but they are the generally accepted typings over on 16types and ones I saw no problem with. If you're willing to offer better suggestions go for it. Regardless, Fe = left, Fi = right; Aristocracy = authoritarian, Democratic = libertarian is a ridiculous claim.


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## Felipe (Feb 25, 2016)

mrrrmaid said:


> I feel like its a bit of a stretch to call Fe left wing and Fi right wing. Fe right wingers include Hitler (EIE), Trump (SLE)


Maybe I should open another thread about Trump's type but I think he has been typed SEE by Gulenko. He does seem to give off more emotionally charged judgements.


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## DavidH (Apr 21, 2017)

mrrrmaid said:


> they're mostly not my typings since I'm a newb, but they are the generally accepted typings over on 16types and ones I saw no problem with. If you're willing to offer better suggestions go for it. Regardless, Fe = left, Fi = right; Aristocracy = authoritarian, Democratic = libertarian is a ridiculous claim.


I really don’t care what you think. The dichotomies split the way I listed is the way supported by Socionics.


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## mrrrmaid (Aug 11, 2018)

DavidH said:


> I really don’t care what you think. The dichotomies split the way I listed is the way supported by Socionics.


Please enlighten me or back up your claim. 

Fe = expression, conveying emotion, getting people excited, describing emotional states, creating a sense of unity. Nothing there suggests any opinion on economics left or right. 
Fi = personal relationships, ethical and moral judgements, describing how they feel about something / how it affects them. Again, nothing suggests right wing economics. 

Democratic = universal experience over group differences, individual expression, involving the crowd. Aristocratic = group differences, speak to a specific rather than general audience, view everyone as having their own place. The former probably aligns more with libertarianism, but the latter could be authoritarian or just different libertarian communities. This one has more weight than the Fe/Fi = left/right but still too simplistic to give as an example of how aristocracy and democracy work.


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## mrrrmaid (Aug 11, 2018)

like, everyone I'm friends with is bottom left corner of the political compass. I don't tend to make friends outside that political spectrum. But the quadra split is much more varied - maybe 40% alpha, 40% delta, 15% beta, 5% gamma. By your logic I should know a much wider variety of political opinions OR all my friends would be alpha. It just makes no sense. 

In fact, the gammas tend to be most authoritarian people I know (and by that, I mean democratic socialist as opposed to the libertarian socialists the rest of my pals are)


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## DavidH (Apr 21, 2017)

mrrrmaid said:


> Please enlighten me or back up your claim.
> 
> Fe = expression, conveying emotion, getting people excited, describing emotional states, creating a sense of unity. Nothing there suggests any opinion on economics left or right.
> Fi = personal relationships, ethical and moral judgements, describing how they feel about something / how it affects them. Again, nothing suggests right wing economics.
> ...


Nope.


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## DavidH (Apr 21, 2017)

mrrrmaid said:


> like, everyone I'm friends with is bottom left corner of the political compass. I don't tend to make friends outside that political spectrum. But the quadra split is much more varied - maybe 40% alpha, 40% delta, 15% beta, 5% gamma. By your logic I should know a much wider variety of political opinions OR all my friends would be alpha. It just makes no sense.
> 
> In fact, the gammas tend to be most authoritarian people I know (and by that, I mean democratic socialist as opposed to the libertarian socialists the rest of my pals are)


If you don’t understand politics nor Socionics, then you really haven’t just stated anything at all.


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## mrrrmaid (Aug 11, 2018)

DavidH said:


> If you don’t understand politics nor Socionics, then you really haven’t just stated anything at all.


Nothing I said suggested I don't understand politics. I'm a week away from finishing a Social Science MA degree so I've got a pretty good grasp on it actually. Nothing I said required much understanding of politics either. I said all my friends are libertarian socialists, meaning they vote or campaign in a way that reflects that political stance. Even if my typing is off, is it more likely that everyone I know is Alpha or that your unsubstantiated claim is wrong? You're still yet to provide any reasoning or evidence to how this claim has any basis in socionics theory. I've seen it no where else.


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## DavidH (Apr 21, 2017)

mrrrmaid said:


> Nothing I said suggested I don't understand politics. I'm a week away from finishing a Social Science MA degree so I've got a pretty good grasp on it actually. Nothing I said required much understanding of politics either. I said all my friends are libertarian socialists, meaning they vote or campaign in a way that reflects that political stance. Even if my typing is off, is it more likely that everyone I know is Alpha or that your unsubstantiated claim is wrong? You're still yet to provide any reasoning or evidence to how this claim has any basis in socionics theory. I've seen it no where else.


It’s most likely that you are wrong.

For your claims concerning politics, you have not qualified your statements with a government. You stated they are a certain political stance. They are this political stance at the local, regional, state, national, and international levels?


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## mrrrmaid (Aug 11, 2018)

DavidH said:


> It’s most likely that you are wrong.


lol once again, thanks for clarifying. Me being wrong is the same as all my friends being alpha, which doesn't statistically make sense (though I'd love for everyone to be on the Ne/Si axis, alas it is not so).



> For your claims concerning politics, you have not qualified your statements with a government. You stated they are a certain political stance. They are this political stance at the local, regional, state, national, and international levels?


To locate their politics spatially - British context, British government. I'd say most of them are unsatisfied with the options available to them in terms of voting (not left or liberal enough) but recent years 90% of them have rallied behind Jeremy Corbyn as the best we've got. The remainder don't vote since they don't believe in party politics / are anarchists. Before Corbyn I'd say that number was 50% rather than 10. 

I can get behind Alpha being most likely to be libertarian but that's as far as I can see. If you had made a thread about general political trends of quadras then I wouldn't be so stuck on this but since you answered someone's query on the difference between Aristocracy and Democracy with broad dichotomies I don't think it's a useful comparison to make. Particularly with no explanation as to why you think that.


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## DavidH (Apr 21, 2017)

mrrrmaid said:


> lol once again, thanks for clarifying. Me being wrong is the same as all my friends being alpha, which doesn't statistically make sense (though I'd love for everyone to be on the Ne/Si axis, alas it is not so).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Congratulations. Neither you nor your friends understand politics nor Socionics.

UK is confirmed Delta.


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## Wisteria (Apr 2, 2015)

Felipe said:


> Also I'd like to ask about the Reinin dichotomy Aristocract vs Democrat and if it has anything to do with someone's political views. I considered myself to be generally democrat throughout life but then there are some occasions where I can be extremely elitist and Aristocratic, so how can I really spot the difference? Most people I've encountered seems to me are Aristocratic I think. Or maybe this is one of those dichotomies not to be taken too seriously, I don't know.


I don't know about either politics or this dichotomy, but I think socionics types the politics of some countries. Perhaps you could use that to understand the quadras and the aristocratic/diplomatic dichotomy. Apparently the US is Gamma (LIE), UK is Delta (LSE), Japan is also Delta but with a preference for Si over Te (SLI), France was Alpha (SEI) and Germany was something like LSI.



Felipe said:


> Maybe I should open another thread about Trump's type but I think he has been typed SEE by Gulenko. He does seem to give off more emotionally charged judgements.


He probably rehearsed that. He probably isn't SEE;






(I remember watching this before Trump was elected president and we just laughing at this whole show xD)


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