# Some Thoughts on Sx Instinct...



## SheWolf (Apr 17, 2015)

Feel free to chime in on this subject. But I think the Sx instinct seems to have a bit of a cloud of misrepresentation around it so I would like to discuss it. I wanted to lend my experience as an Sx-dom. 

Disclaimer: By no means is my example the perfect example of what an Sx-dom is. There are a lot of factors that can contribute to how Sx's can differ from each other including actual Enneagram type, second instinct, and even cognition I believe.

Below is my thoughts that I have posted in a Facebook group.



> I'll start off by saying that I'm going to talk about Sx for exactly what it is: an instinct.
> I became sexually aware at a rather young age, probably long before I was "supposed" to. In fact, I never remember a time when I was not sexually aware in some way, even if I didn't "understand" it. It had nothing to do with my environment, either. I was actually raised in a traditional Christian home and was pressured into prudishness. But it just really didn't work because intense energies/sexual flow is something that is strong in me and is also something I have always been attuned to. It's not just having to do with sex itself, either, though it probably is half of it. I've always felt like an animal in mating season, sort of. Like I need to fight, be aggressive, possessive, engage in competition, claim prey. All of the instincts can be considered "primal" but I do think Sx-like behavior is the stuff that comes to people's minds when the word is brought up. The thing is, I both love and hate this thought process of mine. Sometimes I simply love the thrill of the hunt and other times I hate it because I never seem to be able to "slow down." It's a constant flame that can't ever be dowsed. It's always under the surface. Sometimes I feel like I just need to "attack" an object of my interest. Whether that be a person I feel strongly for or even a personal goal.
> An example of this and where I think my So-second comes into play is this little story.
> When I was younger, I was kind of the leader of a small group of friends at the church my family attended at the time and there was a certain boy I set my sights on. A new girl had come to be a part of the youth group, and nonetheless, I perceived her as a threat to taking him from me and also a threat to my status (though the former was more important of a focus.) I wouldn't even say my response was totally out of envy, but rather, out of possessiveness; "Mine, not yours" if you will. My instinct was to "fight" and not let her dominate me nor him. I can literally only describe this as defending my territory. I did end up chasing her away, for what it's worth _;_


Once again, I would love to hear from other Sx-doms, questions for myself, or musings about the instinct in general. :wink:


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## SheWolf (Apr 17, 2015)

@Animal

Figured you'd like to follow this thread.


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## SheWolf (Apr 17, 2015)

@Amaranthine

I think you also had some questions about sx? Correct me if I'm wrong lol.


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## 7rr7s (Jun 6, 2011)

In many ways I think of Sx like a hunger. Going with that instinct thing, it's something that drives you. Gotta eat. Now, to take it further, in some ways it's like a predator when it gets hungry, it needs to hunt. You can eat and eat until you're full, gorge yourself on experiences, people, ideas, obsessions, but you know deep down it's only a temporary fix, because a little while later you'll get hungry again. Sx is a life long hunger, and you'll never get full no matter how much you eat.


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## SheWolf (Apr 17, 2015)

BlueChristmas06 said:


> In many ways I think of Sx like a hunger. Going with that instinct thing, it's something that drives you. Gotta eat. Now, to take it further, in some ways it's like a predator when it gets hungry, it needs to hunt. You can eat and eat until you're full, gorge yourself on experiences, people, ideas, obsessions, but you know deep down it's only a temporary fix, because a little while later you'll get hungry again. Sx is a life long hunger, and you'll never get full no matter how much you eat.



Certainly. I've always had a very "predatory" sort of lens with which I see and through my energy. I think of it as "seek and destroy" almost. I viciously seek out something and then I hone in on a target, then it's like straight shooting right through it. 

I do that not just with love interests, it's everything I do. I'm never content staying in one place with goals or activities. I obsess, though it's sporadic yet highly concentrated. It does suck, never feeling content sometimes. It's not necessarily "connectedness" as I think that's more Social instinct. It's about intensity. The two aren't the same thing. A connection is something that is stable, once it's been established.

Intensity, however, is such a fleeting thing. It's like a bolt of lighting. It strikes suddenly, quickly, and then disappears, leaving only a burning where it once was. It also rarely strikes in the same way twice.


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## 7rr7s (Jun 6, 2011)

SheWolf said:


> Certainly. I've always had a very "predatory" sort of lens with which I see and through my energy. I think of it as "seek and destroy" almost. I viciously seek out something and then I hone in on a target, then it's like straight shooting right through it.
> 
> I do that not just with love interests, it's everything I do. I'm never content staying in one place with goals or activities. I obsess, though it's sporadic yet highly concentrated. It does suck, never feeling content sometimes. It's not necessarily "connectedness" as I think that's more Social instinct. It's about intensity. The two aren't the same thing. A connection is something that is stable, once it's been established.
> 
> Intensity, however, is such a fleeting thing. It's like a bolt of lighting. It strikes suddenly, quickly, and then disappears, leaving only a burning where it once was. It also rarely strikes in the same way twice.


For sure. It's good to be aggressively pursuing things, though I don't think that's necessarily SX. With regards to Sx and intensity, I think alot of times it can be like a live wire. You don't want to touch it just flat out, you don't want to just stick your finger in a light socket because it will kill you. But if you can harness that power, plug things into it you can harness that energy. I think the challenge for Sx people is learning how to reign in that energy and harness it in ways that aren't destructive.


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## SheWolf (Apr 17, 2015)

BlueChristmas06 said:


> For sure. It's good to be aggressively pursuing things, though I don't think that's necessarily SX. With regards to Sx and intensity, I think alot of times it can be like a live wire. You don't want to touch it just flat out, you don't want to just stick your finger in a light socket because it will kill you. But if you can harness that power, plug things into it you can harness that energy. I think the challenge for Sx people is learning how to reign in that energy and harness it in ways that aren't destructive.


Anyone can pursue something, definitely, but I do think that Sx has a tendency to be a lot more obsessive mentally about it. For me, it's because obsessing over something worth pursuing channels the energy that's always sparking at my fingertips into something. It's like I need to transfer energy in zaps all the time. Before my surgeries, I would go for jogs so long that I wouldn't realize how sore and exhausted my muscles were till I got home and collapsed. Because the aching of my body was less significant than transferring my energy. It felt good to release that and I just couldn't stop. It was a low-level adrenaline rush. I tend to thrive off of things that require a lot of energy output. It's part of the reason I've struggled so much since surgery. I have been stripped of my usually energy outlets and it's building up, wanting to explode.


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## 7rr7s (Jun 6, 2011)

SheWolf said:


> Anyone can pursue something, definitely, but I do think that Sx has a tendency to be a lot more obsessive mentally about it. For me, it's because obsessing over something worth pursuing channels the energy that's always sparking at my fingertips into something. It's like I need to transfer energy in zaps all the time. Before my surgeries, I would go for jogs so long that I wouldn't realize how sore and exhausted my muscles were till I got home and collapsed. Because the aching of my body was less significant than transferring my energy. It felt good to release that and I just couldn't stop. It was a low-level adrenaline rush. I tend to thrive off of things that require a lot of energy output. It's part of the reason I've struggled so much since surgery. I have been stripped of my usually energy outlets and it's building up, wanting to explode.


Yeah I feel like obsession seems to be more of a common thing with Sx. This could also be you being a 6, though it's also something I've seen in 8s, is that they don't get fatigued as easily. That's what I thought of when you mentioned the running. But yeah, that endorphin rush can be powerful too. 

Do you experience the energy more internally or externally? I think of obsession more as internal, like a volcano smoldering, but you talked about releasing energy which I would think of more like an eruption.


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## SheWolf (Apr 17, 2015)

BlueChristmas06 said:


> Yeah I feel like obsession seems to be more of a common thing with Sx. This could also be you being a 6, though it's also something I've seen in 8s, is that they don't get fatigued as easily. That's what I thought of when you mentioned the running. But yeah, that endorphin rush can be powerful too.


I've seen it 4's as well. 6's that lean more counterphobic probably tend to have that too. 



> Do you experience the energy more internally or externally? I think of obsession more as internal, like a volcano smoldering, but you talked about releasing energy which I would think of more like an eruption.


Most definitely internal. I often do compare to my energy to a volcano at times, when I am more "unhealthy" or have no means to release it. 

I'm the only Sx-dom in my home, aside from maybe my brother. I'm easily the most intense person in my household, though that could be a number of other factors. I'm not the only 6. I believe my mother could be one and my brother is as well.


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## 7rr7s (Jun 6, 2011)

SheWolf said:


> I've seen it 4's as well. 6's that lean more counterphobic probably tend to have that too.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My family is all Sp/so or so/sp. I'm the most intense person in my family, even extended family, so I know what you mean. I wonder if maybe that factors in with Sx, in the sense that they could feel like no one "gets them" or something, so when they have a deep connection with someone, it's somehow more amplified because of that. Do you experience that ever?


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## Stellafera (Jan 19, 2015)

Not sure if tendencies to get obsessed about something are necessarily Sx. I tend to hop from one interest to another, temporarily get really engrossed in it, and then have something else shiny attract my eye. 

Descriptions of said obsessions seem to be very different from Sx-types to me, though. Exaggerated for comedic effect, but this is what I feel like when I read stuff about the instinct

*Sx-Last:* "My newest biggest hobby is bird photography. I know it's all I talk about now but I'm just so in love! Birds birds birds!"
*Sx-First:* "Hmm."
*Sx-Last:* "Did I go in too deep?"
*Sx-First:* "NO...bird photography is SUBLIME it agrees with my SOUL. ME AND BIRDS HAVE A SPIRITUAL CONNECTION. YOU SAID YOU WENT IN TOO DEEP LET'S GO IN _REALLY_ DAMN DEEP LET'S DO IT RIGHT HERE, RIGHT NOW."
*Sx-Last: * ":shocked:"

I wonder if the Sx instinct is like the pathos I feel after I read a really heavy book or the awe I get when I see the full Milky Way stretching out above me in remote areas. Those are some of the times where I'm actually shaken with energy and I imagine it's a much more common experience for Sx-firsts.

See, it often seems like I feel things lightly compared to others. Like, I'll think to myself "I'm excited!" but I don't actually have the feeling fully running through me. Sometimes I'll just repeat that thought in my head and squee a bit until I get myself psyched up. And since I don't feel things very heavily, it's just awkward when I'm around people who do. 





_basically I'm the purple one_​
It seems like Sx-types hunt for the highs too, but it's all so much more intense. For me it's like I'm _supposed_ to feel like something given the situation I'm in so I try to match that thought. That's a more profound difference to me than hot-and-cold behavior, which can easily be replicated by another instinct stacking.


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## compulsiverambler (Jan 7, 2010)

Stellafera said:


> Not sure if tendencies to get obsessed about something are necessarily Sx. I tend to hop from one interest to another, temporarily get really engrossed in it, and then have something else shiny attract my eye.
> 
> Descriptions of said obsessions seem to be very different from Sx-types to me, though. Exaggerated for comedic effect, but this is what I feel like when I read stuff about the instinct
> 
> ...


I'm so/sp too and I think this is spot-on. I was talking just yesterday in another thread about how as an Ne-dom I seem to change interests more than I change my clothes, and I've seen the Social instinct described as having a similar effect. However, although I get obsessed in the sense that I think and talk about my interests a lot until a shiny new one crosses my path, I rarely gush passionately about anything the way some people do. I would imagine those people are sx-firsts. They don't seem to have any need to hold back their intense feelings for it around others, either, which I sometimes do as if slightly embarrassed, kind of like not wanting to be seen naked even though I'm proud of my body because it feels like something too personal to have on display.


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## SheWolf (Apr 17, 2015)

Stellafera said:


> *Sx-Last:* "My newest biggest hobby is bird photography. I know it's all I talk about now but I'm just so in love! Birds birds birds!"
> *Sx-First:* "Hmm."
> *Sx-Last:* "Did I go in too deep?"
> *Sx-First:* "NO...bird photography is SUBLIME it agrees with my SOUL. ME AND BIRDS HAVE A SPIRITUAL CONNECTION. YOU SAID YOU WENT IN TOO DEEP LET'S GO IN _REALLY_ DAMN DEEP LET'S DO IT RIGHT HERE, RIGHT NOW."
> *Sx-Last: * ":shocked:"


LMAO. I'll admit, I've scared people away with the Sx-first sort of stuff.

For me it's like "no... you just don't GET what this means to me. It's more than that, it's THE FIBER OF MY VERY BEING!"



> _basically I'm the purple one_​



Lol. I'm totally Applejack (the orange/cowboy hat one) in that situation. The emotions of others don't effect me like that. But, when I'm the one upset I can sure be a bit dramatic.

But I get what you're saying, totally. Sx types have a much more vivid intensity that scares Sx-lasts (especially Sp-firsts)
I dated an Enneagram 9 Sp. I was just too much for him between being a 6 and Sx.


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## Rala (Apr 1, 2015)

BlueChristmas06 said:


> In many ways I think of Sx like a hunger. Going with that instinct thing, it's something that drives you. Gotta eat. Now, to take it further, in some ways it's like a predator when it gets hungry, it needs to hunt. You can eat and eat until you're full, gorge yourself on experiences, people, ideas, obsessions, but you know deep down it's only a temporary fix, because a little while later you'll get hungry again. Sx is a life long hunger, and you'll never get full no matter how much you eat.


And maybe that is part of the reason why I relate so much to the concept of "Hungry Ghost". No rest for the wicked. 

*"Hungry ghost is a concept in Chinese Buddhism and Chinese traditional religion representing beings who are driven by intense emotional needs in an animalistic way."*

Whenever I think about a "hungry ghost" I imagine a both angry and in pain, suffering creature, with literally red bleeding eyes and no stomach whatsoever, condemned to always be looking, searching for something, someone, whatever to satisfy a hunger that can never be satisfied, condemned to always be "too much", therefore condemned to what feeds that exact hunger, *rejection.*

Wish I could find a perfect picture for this.


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## Rala (Apr 1, 2015)

@SheWolf

Off topic, but for some reason I associate type 6 with wolves, and the quote in your description reminded me of this one


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## SheWolf (Apr 17, 2015)

Rala said:


> @*SheWolf*
> 
> Off topic, but for some reason I associate type 6 with wolves, and the quote in your description reminded me of this one
> 
> View attachment 562098


Oh definitely. 6 is very wolfish. You're not the first person to make this association.

LOL. I love that quote. I have it saved in an album titled "She Wolf" on my Pinterest.

Here are some others.


* *


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## Dangerose (Sep 30, 2014)

re: this interests thing, considering sx-last and I can relate..I flip from interest to interest like a Ne-dom should try to keep under control but I feel somewhat uncomfortable proclaiming 'This is my passion' and it's weird when other people do it; I really try to keep my interests on the dl

Which is partly because I fear being misinterpreted; often people will garner that I like something but they'll misinterpret why/how I like it and then I have some strange reputation to deal with, I can be pretty obsessive I think and...I might not be sx-last, if I get another person into something we become and unstoppable force, my level is pretty much always 'willing to be an unstoppable force if someone does it with me'

But people are such losers lol, never happens

But mm...I relate to a lot of things sx-firsts say but I feel super weird saying them myself; it's like...letting myself in middle school speak for me :laughing: It often feels like 'I relate but you're not going to get me to describe myself this way', and it's not natural, I guess it feels gauche? From a personal standpoint, this is not how I feel about sx-firsts

Which could be sx-last

Anyways, interesting thread


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## Afterburner (Jan 8, 2013)

Stellafera said:


> *Sx-Last:* "My newest biggest hobby is bird photography. I know it's all I talk about now but I'm just so in love! Birds birds birds!"
> *Sx-First:* "Hmm."
> *Sx-Last:* "Did I go in too deep?"
> *Sx-First:* "NO...bird photography is SUBLIME it agrees with my SOUL. ME AND BIRDS HAVE A SPIRITUAL CONNECTION. YOU SAID YOU WENT IN TOO DEEP LET'S GO IN _REALLY_ DAMN DEEP LET'S DO IT RIGHT HERE, RIGHT NOW."
> *Sx-Last: * ":shocked:"


Especially funny because I know a 9w1 Sx-first who is just like that with linguistics and languages, and everything else she is in to. It is hardly an exaggeration lol.

I have been thinking similar things about this since I'm Sx-first. My experience with shifting, nearly obsessive interests is the same. So much time spent on a topic once it catches my eye, thinking "wow, this is what I need to do for a career" for every single one. Similar experience with the SOs I've had. It is pretty much what the Sx type 5 descriptions always say: pouring our souls into each other, wanting us to be separate from the world. With my last partner it was very near to that ideal and probably the greatest experience of my life. 

I see it with other relationships too. It is pretty all all-or-nothing. I remain detached because the person doesn't interest me that much. If they do, then there's a strong desire to get very close to them, spill all our guts out to each other, share everything I enjoy with them, etc. I have few, if any, in-betweens. A lot of fantasizing about intimacy too. The fantasies are always similar: the person and I together and isolated from the world, sharing our secrets. 

I saw a blog post somewhere comparing the sexual instinct to Freud's concept of the death drive. I only have a basic understanding of the death drive, so I am just taking it lightly, as a conjecture to think about it from.

From Jon Mills, "Reflections on the Death Drive"


> Following the laws of psychic economy, the pleasure principle is a tendency to free the psyche of excitation, or at least minimize stimulation levels so that there is a tolerable degree of constancy. The ultimate condition of pleasure would therefore be a state that is free of tension: through this end, cessation of tension would represent its fulfillment, hence its completion. From this impersonal account of unconscious teleology, what could be more pleasurable than death, than nonbeing? Death is a tensionless state, unadulterated peace. But Freud’s teleology is not strictly Aristotlean: although the unconscious mind aims toward death, it has the capacity to choose its own path toward self-destruction. It is only under this condition of determinate freedom that the psyche can bring about its own end, which makes death-work inherent in the life enhancing processes that at once repudiate the will toward self-destruction while embracing it. Here we may observe two opposing forces operative within the single purpose of the pleasure principle: death and life are ontologically conjoined yet differentiated from one another.


Musing on this led me to think that the intensity of pleasures sought after by the Sx-first is an attempt to reach that state of zero tension by dissolving the self/subject through an unrelenting focus on an object (e.g., a partner, author, idea, etc.). Seeking high-tension situations as if they could "snap" or fall apart at a certain point and become the object. This seems to speak to what @*BlueChristmas06* said of learning to take a non-destructive path for the destructive tendencies the sexual instinct causes. And that this dangerously high tension can be harnessed like energy; that death is inseparable from and bolsters life rather than being altogether contrary to it.

This also reminded me of Christian and Muslim ascetics via Nietzsche's remarks on the saints, who deny life and themselves to become unified with God. He asks, in _Beyond Good and Evil_, why "the most powerful beings have still bowed worshipfully before the saint as the riddle of self-conquest and deliberate self-renunciation." They, and people in general, are mystified by the power and motivations behind the saint's undertaking. That power (not talking about Nietzsche's "will to power") and the reverence for it seems to be illustrative of how the sexual instinct is embodied and perceived. Something raw and powerful in it, as in @*Stellafera*'s comedic example, that can be off-putting but also very attractive.

Al-Ghazali's description of the years he spent in seclusion to seek God in the _Deliverance from Error _is a good example.


> In general, how can men describe such a way as this? Its purity — the first of its requirements — is the total purification of the heart from everything other than God Most High. Its key, which is analogous to the beginning of the Prayer, is the utter absorption of the heart in the remembrance of God. Its end is being completely lost in God. But the latter is its end with reference to its initial stages which just barely fall under the power of choice and personal acquisition. But these are really the beginning of the Way, and everything prior to it is like an antechamber for him who follows the path to it.


I was particularly struck by the (mostly superficial?) similarities between the language used for the sexual instinct and the Sufi metaphor of the moth and the flame. The moth can only know the flame by letting the flame consume it. Many Sx-first descriptions use in almost exactly the same, with their constant desire for intensity being akin to setting themselves on fire. It is interesting that @*BlueChristmas06* compared it to perpetual hunger since in this sense, the constant consumption of the Sx-first is also the Sx-first being consumed themselves by their hunger and the things they (try to) consume. Or in other words, they are their hunger.

Still unsure about characterizing the sexual instinct in this way though. I'm not sure of the extent to which it is literally sexual, or what the connection to sex exactly is. Maybe some kind of sublimation of sexual energy.


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## SheWolf (Apr 17, 2015)

Afterburner said:


> I have been thinking similar things about this since I'm Sx-first. My experience with shifting, nearly obsessive interests is the same. So much time spent on a topic once it catches my eye, thinking "wow, this is what I need to do for a career" for every single one. Similar experience with the SOs I've had. It is pretty much what the Sx type 5 descriptions always say: pouring our souls into each other, wanting us to be separate from the world. With my last partner it was very near to that ideal and probably the greatest experience of my life.
> I see it with other relationships too. It is pretty all all-or-nothing. I remain detached because the person doesn't interest me that much. If they do, then there's a strong desire to get very close to them, spill all our guts out to each other, share everything I enjoy with them, etc. I have few, if any, in-betweens. A lot of fantasizing about intimacy too. The fantasies are always similar: the person and I together and isolated from the world, sharing our secrets.


Ya know, it's funny you mention this. When I meet someone I'm interested in, whether it is romantically or even as a friend, I tend to at times overshare, spill out my heart too quick, etc. but it's not so much for the sake of "connecting" (being connected for the sake of it is more SO instinct) but that's just how I am. It's how I feed my hunger and how I attempt to "consume" that person and fuse with them. Doing so amps up the intensity. Perhaps my So-second has a bit at play there, but my motivations are driven by Sx.

I posted this just yesterday in the same Enneagram group I mentioned in the OP. I was describing my ideal partner and what our relationship would be like. Note, this is only a small excerpt.



> "...I would want to show him that there is light to the world. NOT that I want to bring him into society. No, because I hate society too. But rather, show him that we can create our own lives away from everyone else. Because together, just him and I, nothing else matters and anything is possible. We can be who we are, live as we please, and answer to no one. I want to be the one and only person that when I lay next to him, he no longer has those nightmares."


Yes, it's flowery, intense, and may make some people want to vomit or shrink away. But that's kind of how I experience Sx (and some other Sx-doms I know as well) 
Sexuality, intensity, and such are things like that are very nuanced and complicated to me.


The rest of your post is absolutely *brilliant*. I will likely come back to it later, because I'm a bit blown away by it and need to process it for a sec. LOL.

Moth to a flame... yes, that's precisely the analogy I was looking for. I live for the burn, baby!


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## Donovan (Nov 3, 2009)

really, how i see it is a combination of things. it can be in how i've discovered a new place to engage, but only if it appeals: wisteria, pear trees, random throw-away antiques and christmas lights in the courtyard, plus alcohol? 
and, i don't know a person there, so i can just unwind and ignore everyone? yes... just yes. thank you for this, whoever did it. 


and this kind of ties into my definition of Sx... i normally tune everyone out. or, i should say that i'm completely aware of my surroundings, and yet from another's perspective, something is "on my mind". when in fact, i'm just drinking it all it, and so am not focusing on anything in particular. 
in fact, i'm completely forcing the influence of other people out from my "visceral" view of things; yes, i still hear and see them, but they are not more important than the music, or the lighting, or the general atmosphere... until they _are_ more important. in which case energy that was spread throughout my scenery becomes funneled into their own presence. 

that's how i see it in a very general sense. personally, things begin to change though. emotion, myself, and "Sx" don't always coincide in a way that is functional. woe is me, haha...


if it's just pure energy, i can go off the scaffolding, into oblivion, and take everyone with me; temporarily. but that's only because i've also removed myself from the situation in a way. i've left a piece of me out, which allows for a great deal...
in those instances where i'd rather include all of me--actual interest (aka, emotional interest)--i'm wary of being forceful, and may actually fall flat in a way. 
more worried about someone i actually care about "falling in tune" out of human nature, as opposed to it being what they actually want in that moment. 

so, either steam-rolling a situation or being quite passive.


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