# INTP or ENTP?



## EllieBear (Nov 8, 2012)

I'm confused as to whether I'm an ENTP or an INTP. 

If anyone has a series of questions to decide between the two I'd be very interested in answering.


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## A Clockwork Alice (Jun 21, 2011)

Well this has been my problem too. Have you considered yourself to be an ambivert? If not, then - Where do you get energy from? -Being alone or being with people?


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

EllieBear said:


> I'm confused as to whether I'm an ENTP or an INTP.
> 
> If anyone has a series of questions to decide between the two I'd be very interested in answering.


First of all ENTPs are primarily focused on the outside world, they pump out idea after idea and it's important for them to share their ideas with other people. @tanstaafl28 in my favorite ENTP here atm.
INTPs are primarily focused on the internal world, they like to analyze and theorize but to actually tell other people of their ideas isn't of importance. @arkigos is my favorite INTP here atm.

After that you also need to think of the cognitive functions.
I got an explanation of each of the cognitive functions in my signature that should be good for people new to MBTI and cognitive functions.

You should also read these:
http://personalitycafe.com/intp-articles/76783-recognizing-inferior-function-intp.html
http://personalitycafe.com/entp-articles/76805-recognizing-inferior-function-entp.html

Your cognitive functions are also preferences; like right hand over the left hand. You can still use the opposite functions but it will be a lot more draining to do so and you won't do it as well either.



dodartt said:


> Well this has been my problem too. Have you considered yourself to be an ambivert? If not, then - Where do you get energy from? -Being alone or being with people?


There are no ambiverts, only people who don't understand MBTI.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

I do think some people are closer to the middle than others.


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

tanstaafl28 said:


> I do think some people are closer to the middle than others.


Well, depends on the age of the person due to the development of the functions, but to have a function order you can't be in the middle. Everyone has a domineering side and a submissive side - it's nature, ask Darwin. :tongue:
On a more serious note then
NeTiFeSi
and
TiNeSiFe
one with Si inferior and one with Fe inferior
They are quite different since the types got completely different strengths and weaknesses not to forget that the function stack is fairly different. ISTPs and INTPs, ENTPs and ENFPs are more like than INTPs and ENTPs.


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## Psychopomp (Oct 3, 2012)

dodartt said:


> Well this has been my problem too. Have you considered yourself to be an ambivert? If not, then - Where do you get energy from? -Being alone or being with people?


Anecdotally, I think that if you are in the middle and consider yourself 'ambivert' then you are probably an ENTP whose concept of extraversion is skewed by what most people exhibit who are also extraverts. I know two ENTPs who can and have spend days completely alone and months in relative solitude... one considers himself an introvert. 

So, what makes him an ENTP? 

1) He would rather see an idea live and risk failing, than to see it never live at all. INTPs like me would rather an idea iterate for an eternity than be pushed to life without proper analysis. Now, this is relative to one another. 

2) Due to higher Fe, ENTP is a bit more comfortable with utilizing emotions in a conscious way. I'd argue that it makes them more naturally manipulative. They'd say it makes them more charming, perhaps, but tapping into social expectations and obligations is something they can do to get people caught on to their idea. INTP either cannot or does not do this so well. That isn't to say that they are more 'emotional' at all, necessarily - just that their relationship with the feelings of others is less awkward and uncertain. I often hear ENTPs act casual or willingly judgmental of others in a value sense. INTP has to engage their inferior to do this. They typically don't. As a result of this, ENTP is more engaged in a group effort.... wanting to act as a consultant and 'idea man'.

3) Due to a higher Si, INTP is more systematic and thorough... and also less decisive. Rather than a consultant, the INTP is going to want to take a hands-on approach and may even tend to exclude outside resources that the ENTP would jump at. Every time I have done a project with an ENTP, it has been me doing the programming or systemizing. Half because I am more of a perfectionists and half because he said 'sweet! you want it, you GOT it'. 

I've actually had a very stark experience like this. An ENTP friend and I came up with an idea for an internet service that required a lot of coding. It also needed to be pitched and pushed. The thing is, it was just the two of us. He wasn't particularly social, but it was clearly him who would be more able to incite interest. I knew that his coding wouldn't be up to my standards, even though we are both programmers (and he was quite capable) - and he was very effulgent with whatever praise he felt I'd need to get motivated. He helped as appropriate and did his part of the job. However, it was taking too long and he felt it was ready to go out. I didn't... I knew that we had to be more thorough, more careful. He became quite impatient with me and offered any help he could give to get me out of the rut I must be in. I was in a rut, actually.

Only very recently, I interviewed with an INTP and an ENTP in what was clearly the same situation. Pretty much exactly as above. I am sure even that ENTP would call himself and 'ambivert'. I don't know if I have ever met an INTP who would...... not sure.


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## EllieBear (Nov 8, 2012)

dodartt said:


> Well this has been my problem too. Have you considered yourself to be an ambivert? If not, then - Where do you get energy from? -Being alone or being with people?


That's my main issue. I currently suffer from ME, so any kind of contact is exhausting, regardless of who it is with. That's why I'm struggling to figure out which one.


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## zerocrossing (Jul 6, 2011)

EllieBear said:


> That's my main issue. I currently suffer from ME, so any kind of contact is exhausting, regardless of who it is with. That's why I'm struggling to figure out which one.


It's more about cognitive functions than social interaction. I am an ENTP who can spend considerable time alone. But my dominant function is clearly Extraverted Intuition, which by definition makes me an Extrovert. 

Take a look at the comments above that draw distinctions between INTP and ENTP - particularly the ones discussing how the functions behave in both types.

Because of the order of the functions, ENTPs are generally much quicker to see a lot of possibilities and talk about them on the fly while the possibilities are rushing around their brains. INTPs are usually going to want to give deeper consideration to the possibilities they see - test them, vet them, make sure they work - before getting them out of their heads and into the conversation. 

The poster who mentioned ENFP as a closer analogy to ENTP is right. Both types are Ne-dom and therefore rather mercurial. We can be hard to tell apart. INTP is Ti-dom (like ISTP) and will engage more extensively in the Introverted Thinking process - and have less access to Feeling judgment than ENTP has.


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## EllieBear (Nov 8, 2012)

zerocrossing said:


> Because of the order of the functions, ENTPs are generally much quicker to see a lot of possibilities and talk about them on the fly while the possibilities are rushing around their brains. INTPs are usually going to want to give deeper consideration to the possibilities they see - test them, vet them, make sure they work - before getting them out of their heads and into the conversation.


I like to bounce ideas off of a select few people, but I'd prefer to try them in private. I would hate for my idea to fail in front of people, that would be humiliating. I generally have one idea and while exploring that I find another, then another...


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

EllieBear said:


> I like to bounce ideas off of a select few people, but I'd prefer to try them in private. I would hate for my idea to fail in front of people, that would be humiliating. I generally have one idea and while exploring that I find another, then another...


Sounds more like an introvert tbh. unsure if that's really much of an NT way of thinking tho, I mean I've never really met an ENTP that has felt humiliated by people disproving their ideas; and my INTP friend only disclose his ideas to people close to him and I have the privilege of being one of those people; he doesn't really get offended tho when I tell him that his idea will fail because I tend to be right and he likes to try prove me wrong.

Kinda sounds like weak thinking or intuitive function tbh.


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## EllieBear (Nov 8, 2012)

Acerbusvenator said:


> Sounds more like an introvert tbh. unsure if that's really much of an NT way of thinking tho, I mean I've never really met an ENTP that has felt humiliated by people disproving their ideas; and my INTP friend only disclose his ideas to people close to him and I have the privilege of being one of those people; he doesn't really get offended tho when I tell him that his idea will fail because I tend to be right and he likes to try prove me wrong.
> 
> Kinda sounds like weak thinking or intuitive function tbh.


It's not so much the being wrong I dislike, it's the fact so many people will have seen. I would rather fail with a friend or by myself, than fail in front of a group of people. So, for me it's more being wrong in front of people...


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

EllieBear said:


> It's not so much the being wrong I dislike, it's the fact so many people will have seen. I would rather fail with a friend or by myself, than fail in front of a group of people. So, for me it's more being wrong in front of people...


Why does it matter to you how many people have seen that you were wrong? (I'm just trying to dig deeper)


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## EllieBear (Nov 8, 2012)

Acerbusvenator said:


> Why does it matter to you how many people have seen that you were wrong? (I'm just trying to dig deeper)


I think it's because it shows that my idea was wrong. That I missed something that would stop it from working. It shows my work process isn't what I thought it would be. It shows flaws in my logic and my work as a whole. And I find my intelligence and work processes being questioned quite difficult.

When you fail people often ask lots of questions, and I can't always explain why I think something will work, I just have a feeling it will. Then when it doesn't it makes you, your intuition and skills look shoddy.


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

EllieBear said:


> I think it's because it shows that my idea was wrong. That I missed something that would stop it from working. It shows my work process isn't what I thought it would be. It shows flaws in my logic and my work as a whole. And I find my intelligence and work processes being questioned quite difficult.
> 
> When you fail people often ask lots of questions, and I can't always explain why I think something will work, I just have a feeling it will. Then when it doesn't it makes you, your intuition and skills look shoddy.


So it makes you feel stupid? or just uncomfortable?


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## EllieBear (Nov 8, 2012)

Acerbusvenator said:


> So it makes you feel stupid? or just uncomfortable?


Both actually. I hate to sound big-headed, but I'm rarely wrong, so my mistakes, when they happen, garner a lot more attention than my successes. So the attention makes me very uncomfortable. But yes, I also feel stupid for not seeing the mistake before it becomes apparent. I start to doubt my method a little.


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

EllieBear said:


> Both actually. I hate to sound big-headed, but I'm rarely wrong, so my mistakes, when they happen, garner a lot more attention than my successes. So the attention makes me very uncomfortable. But yes, I also feel stupid for not seeing the mistake before it becomes apparent. I start to doubt my method a little.


This might be of interest to you: http://personalitycafe.com/cognitive-functions/131490-skeptical-your-own-knowledge.html
and
http://personalitycafe.com/cognitive-functions/131140-inferior-function-thread.html#5


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## Velasquez (Jul 3, 2012)

I actually said ENTP in the other thread when all sixteen types were on the table. I didn't see that you'd made this thread too. But yeah, you're an ENTP. This other guy is effectively saying to you 'you are self conscious about making mistakes so it's impossible to be a thinker in any capacity because thinkers only care about the truth', and there is so much wrong with that that I can't be bothered to refute it. But I'd ask, have you ever put owning up to your mistakes into practice? Yeah, everyone should do it in theory, but my god, whenever I admit to making a mistake, people get hung up on it for *years* afterwards. It's like, if they disagree with me about a different thing, they'll say to me 'yeah well you were wrong about XX that one time, so you don't know anything', as if that's an argument. So INTPs and ENTPs can be *reluctant *to make mistakes in front of others, because other people just start using that as weaponry against you, and it's frustrating as shit, just because of how fundamentally illogical it is. However, because NTPs are also reluctant to lie about stuff, and they won't carry on arguing their position if they know that they're wrong, what can happen is that they end up doing exactly what the OP describes, and only work on their ideas in private until they're fully fleshed out in order to avoid wasting the time and energy dealing with twats who just go 'you made a mistake nerrr nerrrrr nerrrrr' and treat debate as a competitive sport rather than a quest for the truth.

Edit: OP, I can't remember why I said ENTP over INTP for you, but I'm sure I had a wonderful reason.


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Velasquez said:


> This other guy is effectively saying to you 'you are self conscious about making mistakes so it's impossible to be a thinker in any capacity because thinkers only care about the truth', and there is so much wrong with that that I can't be bothered to refute it.


Don't think that you can decide what I meant to say. Be emotional somewhere else.

I am saying that she makes a leap in judgement. Being wrong and being stupid aren't connected yet they seem to be for her and that is a sign of a weak thinking function.
Someone with a strong thinking function doesn't care much if they are considered wrong according to other people, or they will get a bit uncomfortable but not consider themselves stupid.


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## Velasquez (Jul 3, 2012)

Acerbusvenator said:


> Don't think that you can decide what I meant to say. Be emotional somewhere else.
> 
> I am saying that she makes a leap in judgement. Being wrong and being stupid aren't connected yet they seem to be for her and that is a sign of a weak thinking function.
> Someone with a strong thinking function doesn't care much if they are considered wrong according to other people, or they will get a bit uncomfortable but not consider themselves stupid.


She said that she _feels stupid when she makes mistakes. _You're saying that she thinks that she is stupid because she makes mistakes, which she has neither said nor implied.

EDIT: Op, can you clarify this one, lol? It seems silly me and this guy sitting here discussing what it was you were trying to say.


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Velasquez said:


> She said that she _feels stupid when she makes mistakes. _You're saying that she thinks that she is stupid because she makes mistakes, which she has neither said nor implied.


It's the same thing smart-ass.
"I think I'm stupid"
"I feel like I'm stupid"
I didn't imply that it was because she makes mistakes either. Everyone makes mistakes.
Her reaction to mistakes is "gosh, I feel stupid" which was what she said and that is a reaction of someone with a weak thinking function.


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

EllieBear said:


> It's not so much the being wrong I dislike, it's the fact so many people will have seen. I would rather fail with a friend or by myself, than fail in front of a group of people. So, for me it's more being wrong in front of people...


I think this could be explained better with enneagram, honestly. And Miss @EllieBear, could you fill out a questionnaire in a stickied thread, or if you have done one here before, could you link me to it?


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## Velasquez (Jul 3, 2012)

Acerbusvenator said:


> It's the same thing smart-ass


Look who's emotional now.

Also, have you looked at her other thread? If not, can you go and do that and come back and tell me what you make of it?

EDIT: Link


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## EllieBear (Nov 8, 2012)

Acerbusvenator said:


> Don't think that you can decide what I meant to say. Be emotional somewhere else.
> 
> I am saying that she makes a leap in judgement. Being wrong and being stupid aren't connected yet they seem to be for her and that is a sign of a weak thinking function.
> Someone with a strong thinking function doesn't care much if they are considered wrong according to other people, or they will get a bit uncomfortable but not consider themselves stupid.


For me my intelligence has been the only part of me that I actually like. I won't go into too much detail but I've not had the easiest ride and the only thing that's meant anything to me is my intelligence. I'm used to being right - when I'm not it's means I've gotten something wrong. Which does make me feel incredibly stupid.


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## Velasquez (Jul 3, 2012)

EllieBear said:


> For me my intelligence has been the only part of me that I actually like. I won't go into too much detail but I've not had the easiest ride and the only thing that's meant anything to me is my intelligence. I'm used to being right - when I'm not it's means I've gotten something wrong. Which does make me feel incredibly stupid.


What do you think of Acerbusvenator's suggestion that thinking might be your weakest function and you are a feeling dominant type? Agree, disagree?


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## EllieBear (Nov 8, 2012)

Velasquez said:


> She said that she _feels stupid when she makes mistakes. _You're saying that she thinks that she is stupid because she makes mistakes, which she has neither said nor implied.
> 
> EDIT: Op, can you clarify this one, lol? It seems silly me and this guy sitting here discussing what it was you were trying to say.



I know I'm not stupid. In do know that. But when I make mistakes it's a bit of a shock and I think "that was a stupid mistake to make", but I feel angry because by messing up I think I make myself look stupid, and I know I can do better; so whatever mistake I made really was stupid.


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## EllieBear (Nov 8, 2012)

Velasquez said:


> What do you think of Acerbusvenator's suggestion that thinking might be your weakest function and you are a feeling dominant type? Agree, disagree?



Could you explain exactly what that means? I want to give a proper answer, so what does it mean to be thinking/feeling dominant?

However, on a total side note, I took a test, these are my results:


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## EllieBear (Nov 8, 2012)

FacelessBeauty said:


> I think this could be explained better with enneagram, honestly. And Miss @_EllieBear_, could you fill out a questionnaire in a stickied thread, or if you have done one here before, could you link me to it?


I've taken the test several times. My recent one I came out as a 5w6, and the first one was a 3w(something).


The stickied question:

http://personalitycafe.com/whats-my-personality-type/136024-so-many-types-so-little-clue.html


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

EllieBear said:


> For me my intelligence has been the only part of me that I actually like. I won't go into too much detail but I've not had the easiest ride and the only thing that's meant anything to me is my intelligence. I'm used to being right - when I'm not it's means I've gotten something wrong. Which does make me feel incredibly stupid.


That sounds more like a complex tho and a deep complex like that seems to be can really make typing harder.

Anyways, a last shot
http://personalitycafe.com/whats-my...ookies-anyone-who-answers-seriously-7.html#66
Look at the different stories.


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## Velasquez (Jul 3, 2012)

See, I just think this kind of self doubt is more going to be a result of life experience, and it's not even particularly rare amongst NTP types. I don't think you can attribute it to inferior thinking. The IFPs I know think more along the lines of 'I am a fundamentally stupid person', whereas OP here is 'I'm not stupid, but I feel stupid when I make a mistake'. Thinking is a core part of her identity and she gets frustrated on the rare occasion when it goes wrong.

Also, just some stuff from the other thread, which I think makes it unlikely that the OP is a feeler:
_
"I don't have a strong moral code, it's subject to change, but I do have some things that are incredibly important to me."

" I wish I was more in touch with people's feelings. I feel that it can be a major disadvantage when working with others. I'd like that advantage."

"Small talk, being around idiots, social expectations (unless I can use them to my advantage)" - answering 'what activities drain you?'_


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## Velasquez (Jul 3, 2012)

Acerbusvenator said:


> That sounds more like a complex tho and a deep complex like that seems to be can really make typing harder.
> 
> Anyways, a last shot
> http://personalitycafe.com/whats-my...ookies-anyone-who-answers-seriously-7.html#66
> Look at the different stories.


Is there any particular type that you think the OP is though? Because right now, I feel like you're kind of getting hung up on this one thing she's said that _could_ be attributed to inferior thinking and not considering all of the other things she's said, and I'm not sure that we're going to get an accurate result that way. For example, what evidence would you put forward to suggest that she is a dominant feeling type aside from what you've said thus far?

I'd also suggest that in this case, the simplest solution is the best one, and that everything about her can be explained by 'she's an ENTP who experiences self doubt like most other humans'.


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Velasquez said:


> Is there any particular type that you think the OP is though? Because right now, I feel like you're kind of getting hung up on this one thing she's said that _could_ be attributed to inferior thinking and not considering all of the other things she's said, and I'm not sure that we're going to get an accurate result that way. For example, what evidence would you put forward to suggest that she is a dominant feeling type aside from what you've said thus far?
> 
> I'd also suggest that in this case, the simplest solution is the best one, and that everything about her can be explained by 'she's an ENTP who experiences self doubt like most other humans'.


Ssh, stop interrupting.
Your way might be straight forward but mine isn't.
I keep pushing for that because I want to see her response when she's getting something she doesn't expect because that activates her mental defenses and thus she will need to argue as of why she doesn't agree and that will make her type more obvious.

You are trying to be right, I am trying to find her type and those can be mutually exclusive.
Just because someone says that they don't have strong values doesn't mean that they don't - it's just that either the values are being suppressed or she's just not aware of them.
My ESFP sister for example swears that she doesn't have strong values, but it's obvious to everyone around her that she does. Things pass a threshold in which we stop noticing them because they seem so natural for us.


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## Velasquez (Jul 3, 2012)

Acerbusvenator said:


> Your way might be straight forward but mine isn't.
> 
> You are trying to be right, I am trying to find her type and those can be mutually exclusive.


I seriously can't believe that you would accuse me of being emotional and then litter all of your posts with these kinds of pathetic veiled insults.

I understand and agree with your last point about people kind of using their dominant functions without being aware of them, like a fish in water, but again, I'm just saying that it is also possible that somebody who says that they don't have strong values doesn't actually have strong values and it's as simple as that. If you are intent on objectively finding her type, then I don't see why you, at least to me, seem like that you are writing my suggestions that she could be an ENTP off as though they were _more implausible_ than whatever your ideas are. 

Plus, I feel like you're kind of steering her towards giving particular answers that she wouldn't normally give if you weren't questioning her. Which is fine _if you're working under the assumption that the OP is putting up some kind of veil or facade in the first place_, but I don't see any good reason to make that assumption.


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Velasquez said:


> I understand and agree with your last point about people kind of using their dominant functions without being aware of them, like a fish in water, but again, I'm just saying that it is also possible that somebody who says that they don't have strong values doesn't actually have strong values and it's as simple as that. If you are intent on objectively finding her type, then I don't see why you, at least to me, seem like that you are writing my suggestions that she could be an ENTP off as though they were _more implausible_ than whatever your ideas are.
> 
> Plus, I feel like you're kind of steering her towards giving particular answers that she wouldn't normally give if you weren't questioning her. Which is fine _if you're working under the assumption that the OP is putting up some kind of veil or facade in the first place_, but I don't see any good reason to make that assumption.


I am killing a few birds with one stone. Stop interrupting me.
I haven't seen a sign of either inferior Fe or inferior Si either.


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## Velasquez (Jul 3, 2012)

Acerbusvenator said:


> I am killing a few birds with one stone. Stop interrupting me.
> I haven't seen a sign of either inferior Fe or inferior Si either.


I think it's odd that you seem to be searching so actively for signs of the inferior function and not really looking for evidence of the other three functions. It should not be considered unusual at all to see no signs of a person's inferior function in their introductory post, given that it's their weakest function that they use the least and often actively repress. 

I assume that the fundamental idea behind your approach here is 'you can tell the most about a person by looking at their insecurities', which I think is a great idea, but I think the mistake you're making is trying to find an insecurity that a person has, then cram that insecurity into whichever inferior function it fits into best, and then derive a person's type backwards from that. Personally, I think that approach is terrible, betrays a deep misunderstanding of personality type theory, will constantly yield incorrect results, and is wasting the OP's time. But I realise I am not going to convince you of any of those things.

OP, I do think you're an ENTP rather than an INTP, and I don't think that there's good evidence that you are a feeler. I'm leaving this thread, but if you want to discuss this any further with me, send me a message.


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Velasquez said:


> I think it's odd that you seem to be searching so actively for signs of the inferior function and not really looking for evidence of the other three functions. It should not be considered unusual at all to see no signs of a person's inferior function in their introductory post, given that it's their weakest function that they use the least and often actively repress.
> 
> I assume that the fundamental idea behind your approach here is 'you can tell the most about a person by looking at their insecurities', which I think is a great idea, but I think the mistake you're making is trying to find an insecurity that a person has, then cram that insecurity into whichever inferior function it fits into best, and then derive a person's type backwards from that. Personally, I think that approach is terrible, betrays a deep misunderstanding of personality type theory, will constantly yield incorrect results, and is wasting the OP's time. But I realise I am not going to convince you of any of those things.
> 
> OP, I do think you're an ENTP rather than an INTP, and I don't think that there's good evidence that you are a feeler. I'm leaving this thread, but if you want to discuss this any further with me, send me a message.


Truth is that I don't care about your beliefs because mine is backed up with experience and facts. Yours however is only gut feelings like "the OP doesn't seem to care much about values so she must be an ENTP". Also, yours is prone to exposure to biases.
Keep reading up on MBTI and then we can talk when you understand the system.

Honestly, don't mess with how I type people and I won't mess with how you do it. I know mine works so it's just a waste of time to try and tell me it doesn't work because you don't live inside my mind. You are unable to grasp the way I type people so there's no point telling you.

I know MBTI extremely well so just don't try to go there.


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

@EllieBear Te-Fi was very apparent in your questionnaire. You might be an Se-Ni user but I'm not too sure about that. 

Look into ESFP, ISFP, INTJ, ENTJ and tell me what you think of each. I think 3w4 and 5w6 are very much in your tritype too by the way. Do you know your instincts or?


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## HighClassSavage (Nov 29, 2012)

Personally, reading her questionnaire in her other thread makes me think ENTJ. As has been said, Te - Fi was very evident.


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