# Importance of the Cognitive Functions vs. Traditional Letter-Based MBTI



## Bricolage (Jul 29, 2012)

I think the crux of Mike's argument rests on how well JCF lines up with MBTI, which according to some studies is not very much. So, that mismatch between JCF and MBTI can be discussed. 

Also, I would like to get into this idea about function fetishism...does it exist and where does it come from, if you believe it exists. Whatever the origin, internet forums certainly seemed to have christened the functions as the meat of this MBTI phenomenon. 






That seems true around ~6 minutes to me. People do misuse type for identity, especially online. Do you feel mis/using type for identity comes with any risks?


----------



## LadyO.W.BernieBro (Sep 4, 2010)

Sometimes l forget how separate the online community is from the way MBTI is traditionally used, but in MBTI's more common practice it doesn't seem to be used for all that much.

HR dealings, resolution conflict, other areas l'm sure l'm not mentioning.

l've seen different systems for the same purposes, one that was essentially MBTI based and only used colors and shapes. 

Do you really need a system at that point? This is basically so you can resolve conflicts more impersonally. 

''Mary and John don't see eye to eye because Mary is a red circle and John is a Blue square'' is more well received than ''Mary and John don't see eye to eye because Mary is rigid and John is a dick.''

So, you could argue that the online community is overly focused and function obsessed, but it's not really an accurate comparison and the online community really is more identity based.


----------



## Bricolage (Jul 29, 2012)

OMG WTF BRO said:


> So, you could argue that the online community is overly focused and function obsessed, but it's not really an accurate comparison and the online community really is more identity based.


Perhaps the online community is more identity based because aside from an avatar and a few other things that's all one has online for identity. It's meaningful, online, to have an ESFP, INTP subforum, etc.


----------



## Naama (Dec 5, 2010)

I dont really agree with mike there, at all. Except maybe with the fact that 4 letter code is a nice tool in typing people, but other than that, its the 4 letter code which is the reductionist system. Also roots for 4 letter code are in functions, the 4 letter code was originally just basically a way to write the functions in 4 letters..


----------



## Bricolage (Jul 29, 2012)

Naama said:


> I dont really agree with mike there, at all. Except maybe with the fact that 4 letter code is a nice tool in typing people, but other than that, its the 4 letter code which is the reductionist system. Also roots for 4 letter code are in functions, the 4 letter code was originally just basically a way to write the functions in 4 letters..


Mike reveals his bias in another video in which he brags about his grad school-level statistics training and basically creams his pants over how valid and reliable MBTI is...and how MBTI is the only valid typology - Mike offhandedly discredits the Enneagram. It's weird to hear because MBTI and the Big 5, which is equally if not more scientifically rigorous, correlate dimension by dimension for the most part. In reality MBTI is just Mike's Fi latching onto something...there are other systems out there, and other ways of approaching MBTI - profiles, JCF, etc. Anyway here's that misguided video. I do agree with Mike, though, that early behaviorism a la Skinner and current academia spit on Jung's grave lol.


----------



## Naama (Dec 5, 2010)

unctuousbutler said:


> Mike reveals his bias in another video in which he brags about his grad school-level statistics training and basically creams his pants over how valid and reliable MBTI is...and how MBTI is the only valid typology - Mike offhandedly discredits the Enneagram. It's weird to hear because MBTI and the Big 5, which is equally if not more scientifically rigorous, correlate dimension by dimension for the most part. In reality MBTI is just Mike's Fi latching onto something...there are other systems out there, and other ways of approaching MBTI - profiles, JCF, etc. Anyway here's that misguided video. I do agree with Mike, though, that early behaviorism a la Skinner and current academia spit on Jung's grave lol.


I watched that video and i think mike has a pretty good understanding about statistical analysis. Also i dont see any bragging, just explanations about this stuff.


----------



## Bricolage (Jul 29, 2012)

Naama said:


> I watched that video and i think mike has a pretty good understanding about statistical analysis. Also i dont see any bragging, just explanations about this stuff.


I never doubted Mike's statistical understanding.

Mike seems oblivious to the Big 5's rigorous and time-tested factor analysis.

Just reread my post lol.


----------



## Bricolage (Jul 29, 2012)

I didn't even hear Mike mention the Big 5/SLOAN or MMPI...too typologies/inventories more credible in the academic community than MBTI.


----------



## Naama (Dec 5, 2010)

unctuousbutler said:


> I never doubted Mike's statistical understanding.
> 
> Mike seems oblivious to the Big 5's rigorous and time-tested factor analysis.
> 
> Just reread my post lol.


Big 5 has some major flaws in it imo. Basically the whole big 5 thing is based on statistical analysis of descriptive words of human characteristic in *A FUCKING DICTIONARY*. Even tho it has been more rigorously tested than MBTI, it doesent make it more complete description about personality than what MBTI offers. Also since big 5 is much more simple than MBTI/jungs type, its easy to find statistical correlations with it and some other stuff. And all the correlations with big 5 and other systems being there and it being really valid system, that again doesent mean that it would offer more meaningful description about personality, it just means that some people truly are more lets say open to experience than others are. But is the understanding that you get about someone from that person testing high on openness scale on big 5, as deep as the understanding of someone scoring clear preference on intuition? Well i think at that point those are at about same level, except that there are two different forms of intuition in MBTI and learning to differentiate Ni from Ne, does put MBTI light years beyond big 5 in finding the true essence(or what ever) of the persons cognitive preferences.


----------



## Naama (Dec 5, 2010)

unctuousbutler said:


> I didn't even hear Mike mention the Big 5 or MMPI...too typologies more credible in the academic community than MBTI.


big 5 and MMPI arent typologies..


----------



## Bricolage (Jul 29, 2012)

Naama said:


> But is the understanding that you get about someone from that person testing high on openness scale on big 5, as deep as the understanding of someone scoring clear preference on intuition?


Probably.


----------



## Bricolage (Jul 29, 2012)

Naama said:


> big 5 and MMPI arent typologies..


The SLOAN people tend to think so.


----------



## Bricolage (Jul 29, 2012)

Naama said:


> big 5 and MMPI arent typologies..


The MMPI is an inventory and the MBTI is an indicator...

I wouldn't get hung up on the terms.


----------



## Bricolage (Jul 29, 2012)

So why didn't Mike mention the Big 5 again? @Naama


----------



## Naama (Dec 5, 2010)

unctuousbutler said:


> The MMPI is an inventory and the MBTI is an indicator...
> 
> I wouldn't get hung up on the terms.


MBTI is an inventory aswell.




unctuousbutler said:


> The SLOAN people tend to think so.


SLOAN does not equal big 5(its more like some hobbyist version of big 5 and isnt even mentioned in big 5 wiki page and all you get from 'sloan big 5' search from google is some links to pages like similar minds and shit like that) and i doubt that anyone who knows his shit thinks that MMPI is a typology.




unctuousbutler said:


> So why didn't Mike mention the Big 5 again? Naama


maybe it didnt cross his mind or he didnt see the importance of it. you should ask him, not me


----------



## Bricolage (Jul 29, 2012)

Naama said:


> MBTI is an inventory aswell.


Myers-Briggs Typology Indicator.


----------



## Bricolage (Jul 29, 2012)

Naama said:


> maybe it didnt cross his mind or he didnt see the importance of it. you should ask him, not me


The assumption made throughout the video is that the MBTI is the only valid and reliable typology in psychology, which isn't so.


----------



## Bricolage (Jul 29, 2012)

Naama said:


> SLOAN does not equal big 5


Never said they were commensurate.


----------



## Naama (Dec 5, 2010)

unctuousbutler said:


> Myers-Briggs Typology Indicator.


"The purpose of the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator® (MBTI®) personality inventory is to make the theory of psychological types described by C. G. Jung understandable and useful in people’s lives." = The first sentence in the basics section in myersbriggs.org .

Personality Inventory - definition


> Definition: A personality inventory is an assessment tool used to determine which of these personality types a person falls into: extroverted, introverted, thinking, feeling, sensing, intuitive, judging, and perceptive. It is used as part of a self assessment done for career planning purposes.
> 
> Examples:
> The career counselor administered a personality inventory called the Myers Briggs Type Indicator (MBTI).


Psychological inventory doesent mean that the assessment has the word 'inventory' in its name, but is defined by dictionary as:



> personality inventory
> n.
> A questionnaire that is scored to yield a profile of the particular traits or characteristics that make up the respondent's personality.
> 
> ...


----------



## Naama (Dec 5, 2010)

unctuousbutler said:


> The assumption made throughout the video is that the MBTI is the only valid and reliable typology in psychology, which isn't so.


i suggest reading Personality type - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------

