# homophobia!



## Stephen (Jan 17, 2011)

What are your thoughts on homosexuality, and why?

What are your thoughts on homophobia*, and why?

* some alternate terms include homoerotophobia, homosexophobia, homonegativity, heterosexism, and sexual prejudice


----------



## Kriash (May 5, 2011)

Homosexuality:Whatever people choose to do is their business. It isn't hurting anyone, so I don't see the problem.

Homophobiaeople have the right to believe whatever they want. If they think that being gay is gross, or a sin, let them think so. The problem I have with it is when they want to say that these couples can't live their life just like anyone else, or when they physically or mentally assault gay people, or somehow try and force them to change. Like the saying, if you don't believe in gay marriage, then don't get one, it's that simple.


----------



## Donkey D Kong (Feb 14, 2011)

There is nothing wrong with homosexuality, a person can't choose what gender they are attracted to.

Homophobia: Ignorance at its finest, being against somebody for being attracted to someone they're not attracted to.









This sums it up pretty well.


----------



## devoid (Jan 3, 2011)

I think we've come across the exact same problem not so long ago about interracial couples. People thought marrying a Christian to a non-Christian was destroying the sanctity of marriage, but now whoops, I guess that's fine as long as they aren't black - I mean as long as they aren't a Jew - Atheist - transgender...

Seriously guys, you think a same-gender couple is ruining the sanctity of marriage? You do know it's legal for a Satanic priest to legally marry a couple, and this is what crosses the line for you?

I bet by next Tuesday they'll have forgotten about gays and moved on to midgets.


----------



## viva (Aug 13, 2010)

Homophobia makes me sick to my stomach. :frustrating:

I honestly can't even be friends with someone who is homophobic.


----------



## android654 (Jan 19, 2010)

hziegel said:


> I think we've come across the exact same problem not so long ago about interracial couples. People thought marrying a Christian to a non-Christian was destroying the sanctity of marriage, but now whoops, I guess that's fine as long as they aren't black - I mean as long as they aren't a Jew - Atheist - transgender...
> 
> Seriously guys, you think a same-gender couple is ruining the sanctity of marriage? You do know it's legal for a Satanic priest to legally marry a couple, and this is what crosses the line for you?
> 
> I bet by next Tuesday they'll have forgotten about gays and moved on to midgets.


Are you fucking serious! They're letting midgets get married! I'm making some signs, someone's got to think about the children.

to the op

Two guys, two girls, three guys, who cares? I only really care if I'm invited, then it makes a difference who's involved.

People are going to hate things that are different all the time, just id driven and can't handle people who are different from them.


----------



## Fizz (Nov 13, 2010)

*What are your thoughts on homosexuality, and why?*
Same as heterosexuality, bisexuality, asexuality, and so on. It's just who they are.


*What are your thoughts on homophobia, and why?*
It's a turn-off on epic proportions. As is biphobia, that irritates me too.


----------



## tuna (Jun 10, 2010)

Stephen said:


> What are your thoughts on homosexuality, and why?


It's a sexuality.

That's about it.




> What are your thoughts on homophobia, and why?












Gonna stay as queer as I've always been, thank you, fuck you, hope you step on a lego!


----------



## Fizz (Nov 13, 2010)

To tie our threads together @Stephen,










"[Thou] shall not lie with a male as one does with a woman. It is an abomination. Leviticus 18:22"

BUT

"Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD. Leviticus 19:28"


Homophobes:


----------



## heartturnedtoporcelain (Apr 9, 2010)

My brother once told me that he and a friend had shouted a homophobic slur at a couple of guys holding hands and that all gay people should die. It made me *so mad* - I shouted at him and cried in anger and frustration and just ... I can't even express how upset it made me. It has forever ruined my opinion of him (not that I liked him in the first place, but *he crossed a line*). 

<--- this is how I feel about homophobia.


----------



## Khar (May 21, 2011)

I have no problems with homosexuality. 

If I had to sum up my initial feelings these days on homophobia, my first response would have to be pity. Not out of a sense of "moral" or "intellectual" superiority, although I am sure some would say I could be justified in saying so. It's because there is a whole raft of research suggesting that one of the reasons homophobia is prominent in some groups is because those who tend to be homophobic are more likely to be folks who, for example, have erectile responses and such to homoerotica. That so many men and women are homophobic because some part of themselves may have some minor, or perhaps even major, homosexual leanings they cannot reconcile makes me sad. 

Another bit of that pity comes from internalized homophobia found in a lot of homosexuals, predominantly men. When simply being who you are results in self-loathing and hatred, I can't help but view it as a horrible thing, even though this sort of homophobia is not often expressed. It's one of the reasons why a leaning indicator of depression in men is homosexuality -- it is very hard for people to reconcile the fact that they are homosexual. I know many people would not view this as a form of homophobia, but it has come to be described as such.

I guess when it comes to institutionalized homophobia is disappointment. In part, because there is so little we can do to sway states like Iran away from their stance on homosexuality in our lifetimes, in part because it is often assosiated with "hot" topics like Islam, and in part because in a day and age where we are seeing the fading of prejudices by race and so forth in the modern world, we are only seeing them replaced by a new marginalized brand of people. I had hoped a people who had explored space, gone to the depths of the ocean, taken international aid to such massive levels and promoted understanding to levels unseen in history had moved past such knee-jerk reactions to something which is simply different, something people have not by choice. Yet a startling amount of people have chosen not too. 

I do feel anger with how people choose to represent their fear, and I feel resentment that they feel I have not "thought it through." But I think enough people will be talking about that, about a blinding rage they feel and how it makes them sick to their stomach when some of the worst examples of homophobia, like executions and imprisonment, come about. More than enough will be said about ignoring those who preach the loudest about homophobia, that my repeating it will have little meaning. I feel the two things which do not get enough face time are disappointment. 

And pity.


----------



## Vaan (Dec 19, 2010)

ho·mo·sex·u·al/ˌhōməˈsekSHo͞oəl/
Noun: A person who is sexually attracted to people of their own sex.
Adjective: (of a person) Sexually attracted to people of one's own sex

Latin Roots -
hom(o)-same
Sex- 'Six'
Ual- Pertaining To

ho·mo·pho·bi·a noun /ˌhōməˈfōbēə/ 

1.An extreme and irrational aversion to homosexuality and homosexual people 

Latin roots - 
hom(o)-same
Phobia- Terror/Fear of, comes from greek, Phobos


This is my analytical opinion of the two subjects


----------



## Paragon (Mar 15, 2011)

*What are your thoughts on homosexuality, and why?
*
Your sexuality.
*What are your thoughts on homophobia, and why?
*
































Homophobia makes no logical sense, and is just plain rude.


----------



## nádej (Feb 27, 2011)

Homosexuality: I don't understand it as much as I wish I did, but I have absolutely no problems with it. Get it.
Homophobia: Makes me want to cry.

Also:


----------



## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

Well, my view isn't much different than many.

I don't have an issue with homosexuality and think same-sex marriage should be legalized just as it is for straights. What's funny is that I can understand why some people feel weird feelings about two men having sex; sometimes I share that feeling. But it doesn't change what my mind tells me is the most fair and rational conclusion. I'm also active with helping the LGBT task force at work.

I think homophobia does exist. In a minority of cases, it could mean the person has gay feelings and is projecting out of that. More often, it's just a sense of stigma or shame projected on gay people... a shame that sometimes gay people internalize and have trouble loving themselves accordingly because of. I do think that sometimes people can have a feeling of dislike for something, though, and it's just physical rather than homophobic, as much as they might feel ill over eating a particular type of food just due to personal taste, and no doubt what a gay person might experience if forced to have het sex. 

So I wouldn't say that everyone who feels weird about gay sex sometimes is a homophobe. I think the term is overused.



hziegel said:


> I bet by next Tuesday they'll have forgotten about gays and moved on to midgets.


Oh the poor li'l people! Don't be a H8R!!!!



Fizz said:


> To tie our threads together @_Stephen_ ,
> "[Thou] shall not lie with a male as one does with a woman. It is an abomination. Leviticus 18:22"
> BUT
> "Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD. Leviticus 19:28"


What if I get a tattoo of a gay person? 
Or what if a gay person gets a tattoo?

Is the universe destroyed in a cataclysm of paradoxical astonishment?


----------



## Mr.Xl Vii (Jan 19, 2011)

I actually like gay people better than a lot of straight people. They're generally clean, dont reproduce, and they're not bigots. As far as homophobia goes, I dont hang out with homophobic people, I think they're the scum of the earth, akin to racists.


----------



## Fizz (Nov 13, 2010)

Jennywocky said:


> What if I get a tattoo of a gay person?
> Or what if a gay person gets a tattoo?
> 
> Is the universe destroyed in a cataclysm of paradoxical astonishment?


I'm not religious so you'd have to ask someone who is. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't do anything :crazy:


----------



## etherealuntouaswithin (Dec 7, 2010)

Im pretty homophobic.Not too long ago a homosexual took my beloved treasure and horded it in it's cave..something like this










It sucked b/c i had to go in and fight...adventure..blah blah..and im lazy as hell.

So yeah..fuck em.


----------



## viva (Aug 13, 2010)

Paragon said:


>


I am religious, and I am not homophobic. It bothers me to see religious images associated with homophobia. Christian extremists are not representative of your average religious person, and there are many non-Christians who have homophobic tendencies. I'm happy to say that I am both a Christian and an LGBT ally, so... yeah. I think it's dangerous to assume the two things are correlated-- for example, by associating an image of Jesus with homophobia.

*steps off soapbox*


----------



## Paragon (Mar 15, 2011)

vivacissimamente said:


> I am religious, and I am not homophobic. It bothers me to see religious images associated with homophobia. Christian extremists are not representative of your average religious person, and there are many non-Christians who have homophobic tendencies. I'm happy to say that I am both a Christian and an LGBT ally, so... yeah. I think it's dangerous to assume the two things are correlated-- for example, by associating an image of Jesus with homophobia.
> 
> *steps off soapbox*


Indeed. If you want me to remove those images, I'll be happy to do so. 

I don't mind Christians or religious people at all. I'm just mocking the Westboro Baptist Church.


----------



## Kr3m1in (Jan 16, 2011)

NekoNinja said:


> @Kr3m1in
> 
> When I saw that post I at first thought whoever wrote it was joking so I skipped it...


yeah...these people walk the Earth..:/


----------



## Heather White Karnas (Mar 23, 2011)

Roland787 said:


> id like to murder those who participate in oppressing others and telling them how to live their lives.
> 
> anybody else ever see groups of protesters protesting against gay marriage and whatnot, and think to yourselves 'if only they sprayed all these people with gasoline and lit them on fire, they would have something real to complain about and the world would then be better off'?
> 
> ...


that was about as angry as the glbt protesters that you are protesting against.. jeeze.........

EDIT... I should have read on.. didn't know you were joking till now.... haha... very funny. :crazy:


----------



## Heather White Karnas (Mar 23, 2011)

Evergreen23 said:


>


He's hot... just sayin'.. lol.........


----------



## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

Heather White Karnas said:


> He's hot... just sayin'.. lol.........


It is the fierce blaze in his eyes when he looks into me through that video (because I know he is secretly looking at me, only me!) that makes me knees tremble with insane desire.

Or maybe I just need to get some sleep.


----------



## Heather White Karnas (Mar 23, 2011)

Roland787 said:


> gays arent created by god. their gods children who have been corrupted and accepting to satans influence and are evil beings who deserve serious punishment.
> 
> although i like how most homophobes are aggressive/mean and intolerant/unloving assholes who like to pretend that they follow god and his teachings, but you know, not any of the rules that say to be loving and accepting of all gods children and to let him be the judge of those who sin.


 Thank you... as a God loving woman I agree and I think God is misunderstood... It's God's job to decide who's right and wrong and what to do with them. If you believe in God that is.

I can not stand it when my kids fight and then when I try to break it up (even though I know who was doing what and who was wrong and why they were wrong and what should be done about it) they automatically start in with, "She did this!" and "Well, she did that!" and "I didn't mean it that way!" and "Yes you did!" "Mom you should ground her.. you grounded me for that same thing last week!!" (Even though it wasn't the same thing she got grounded for maybe similar in their little eyes but not the same to me.) I get more mad over that kind of attitude in them, bickering and fighting and wanting to see the other one hurt, than I do the one who caused the anger or did the "bad thing".

Just saying. Sometimes it's just none of our business.. and there are ways of going to God about it with a clean, pure heart if that's your religion.

This is about the religious points by the way.. to the religious people who have hate in their heart... that's just as bad as any sin. PROMISE!


----------



## Heather White Karnas (Mar 23, 2011)

acid said:


> homosexuality: ok so people cannot choose what/who they're attracted to. a straight person doesn't choose to be straight, it's a natural attraction and the same applies to homosexuals.


I kinda disagree... I can chose who I am attracted to.. and I can change that if I want to.. and have many times.. consciously with some effort.


----------



## Roland Khan (May 10, 2009)

Heather White Karnas said:


> that was about as angry as the glbt protesters that you are protesting against.. jeeze.........


 
the length at which i took that was a joke to express my anger. i dont honestly mean i wish for their deaths....they have loved ones im sure. but do i have a hatred towards them none the less, you bet your ass. with all the hatred they spew for real and things they do and with their opinions being forced upon all of us thru our lost legal system....yeah.

anyways, 

theyre here, theyre queer, gtf used to it


----------



## slime (May 21, 2011)

Heather White Karnas said:


> I kinda disagree... I can chose who I am attracted to.. and I can change that if I want to.. and have many times.. consciously with some effort.


ok i was referring to the majority of people. but that's interesting most people have a particular gender that they're attracted to and i'm sure could lie to themselves and give a conscious effort to not like that gender in hopes of not being what they are, but i've never heard of someone being able to change what/who they're attracted to at will.


----------



## Kr3m1in (Jan 16, 2011)

Roland787 said:


> the length at which i took that was a joke to express my anger. i dont honestly mean i wish for their deaths....they have loved ones im sure. but do i have a hatred towards them none the less, *you bet your ass*.


well put, bro.
I think I get it now.


----------



## Heather White Karnas (Mar 23, 2011)

AuntieKara said:


> I believe that a person cannot choose their sexuality, just like someone cannot choose their heritage. You can hide it, but it's still a part of you. Just like if you are Irish, you can tell people you are american, but the fact is: you are still Irish.
> 
> Homophobics piss me off, but as long as they stay out of people's business, then I won't start a fight. I don't think it is right that some parents disown their kids just because of their sexuality; also think its wrong to make a law stating same sex couples can't get married.


I have to say that I disagree on the choice part.. I think people have more power over our own desires than we give ourselves credit for.. People wouldn't say that it is ok to go kill someone just because they were born a sociopath. I believe that we have a choice in feeding and growing our own desires.. it's what we decide to accept and cultivate in our own selves that grows. 

I have natural desires as well that go against how I was taught and raised (in a Christian home.).. but I understand the difference between having a desire and believing that that's just how I am and I can't help it. I can be whoever I want to be and I believe that I can help it. 

I have actually changed my preferences (in men and women) going back and forth when I decide to... I have been in places in my life when i was not attracted to females sexually at all (always have appreciated beauty though in all things) and when I have been so attracted to women that I didn't want anything else... It was even a bit confusing for me to go back and forth with that when it happened.. I learned how to control my desires... 

I have taught myself to not be attracted to men who I used to be *vvveeerrryyyy* attracted to (they got me into a lot of trouble. haha) I no longer find that type appealing unless I want to be dangerous again. When I first met Chris I wasn't that attracted to him at all really. (There were a few qualities I could deal with but I* KNEW* he wasn't _my type_.) However I taught myself how to look at him in a way that made him very sexually appealing where as when I was getting to know him that was not there.. even though I could tell he was a good man and I was interested in him.. He helped become more attractive with his sweet-heart too but that isn't what changed it for me... what changed it for me was the decision that I wanted to be physically attracted to him, I wanted to desire him passionately like I did _my perceived type_ so I learned how to.

This is my personal opinion and experience that proves this theory for me.. it goes along with the idea that we are born with many desires and they form differently in many different environments. To each their own.. I'm not a judger.


----------



## Up and Away (Mar 5, 2011)

People fear social disapproval, as well as deviance in any shape or for, because deviance is often associated with crime.

Since the powerful people often disapprove of homosexuality, and consider it deviant, people stay averted from it, whether or not it is rational, but more than likely, people have an aversion to even thinking about it rationally.

I think people have an aversion to thinking about it rationally because we can only understand sexuality through our own experience, and therefore, we have to compare our sexuality to another.

Then, when similarities are found, we might not know how to logically explain how we have similarities, but are not in fact of another sexual orientation, and it becomes easier to avoid the topic all together.

Anyway, let me get to what we actually find when we rationally think about it:

What grosses us out about others?

The awkwardness of intimacy. Not the sexuality.

It is perfectly natural to "cringe" when we peak into the private life of someone elses secret intimacy shared between two partners.

Sure, we might think it perfectly natural on tv, when they are of our own orientation, but as soon as:

a) we find them sexually unattractive or perhaps repulsive (not always the case)

Or most importantly,

b) it is an intimate part between two people that relates to the social taboo, that we have avoided due to the above explanation

For example, when two gay men talk about love, it is just as hard to stomach, because of that social conditioning, when it doesnt have anything to do with sexuality at all.

Gay guys could be half dead in a wheel chair, completely paralyzed, saying their last words of love, written on a peace prize, after having slaughtered many foes on the battle field and being a great king, and if they profess their love to another guy and being gay, even if they are completely celibate and have never even masterbated, lmao, we will still be offended?

Wtf.

There is something wrong with that.

Yes I find it repulsive, but why the hell am I thinking about sexual or intimate situations involving other people anyway?

Thats none of my business, and therefore it SHOULD be repulsive to me.

Just like a man and a woman, say the woman being hot, making out on TV, SHOULD BE REPULSIVE TO ME,

but since im a sneaky voyeuring little weasle that watches tv and thinks its okay, i tolerate it and say thats good.

Thats bullshit.

Repulsive is good.

But discrimination, and prejudice is not.

God did create them too.

No one is saying that you have to go be a sexual slut just because you are a certain orientation.

I believe I've said my piece, attempted to be calm, and failed, but succeeded as well.

Edit: Social taboo against physical image, is a totally different story, and I was not addressing that here, and only using it for the sake of addressing homophobia. If you want my comments on that part, please link me to a different thread.


----------



## Arbite (Dec 26, 2010)

Heather White Karnas said:


> I kinda disagree... I can chose who I am attracted to.. and I can change that if I want to.. and have many times.. consciously with some effort.


Forcing yourself to be attracted is different from being naturally attracted.


----------



## tuna (Jun 10, 2010)

Heather White Karnas said:


> that was about as angry as the glbt protesters that you are protesting against.. jeeze.........


not that I endorse maiming people or anything and it's not like groups of Christians have regularly and religiously (lol punny) persecuted anyone who doesn't abide by their heteronormative view of the world for the last however many hundreds of years or anything

but seriously, please don't say things along the lines of "you're just as bad as the people you're against" in a discussion on heterosexism, cissexism, racism, sexism, etc. marginalized people hear that all the time as it is. saying "fuck it, I wish I could burn all their sorry asses" in a moment of anger is nothing like saying "all gay people are going to burn in hell, they should be denied basic rights, they're all sick *******, they're just like pedophiles, god hates them all, they shouldn't be allowed to raise children, etc." which is what we're told on a regular basis.




Heather White Karnas said:


> I have to say that I disagree on the choice part.. I think people have more power over our own desires than we give ourselves credit for.. *People wouldn't say that it is ok to go kill someone just because they were born a sociopath. *I believe that we have a choice in feeding and growing our own desires.. it's what we decide to accept and cultivate in our own selves that grows.


why do you feel the need to compare us to sociopaths? really, why? how is that comparison even relevant?

re: the rest of your post: do you know how profoundly damaging this way of thinking is? google the ex-gay ~movement~. read some of the horror stories. examine your straight privilege for a few minutes. and please, please stop going on about how "I changed which ~type~ of guy I'm attracted to, therefore people can change their sexualities!"


----------



## Heather White Karnas (Mar 23, 2011)

tuna said:


> not that I endorse maiming people or anything and it's not like groups of Christians have regularly and religiously (lol punny) persecuted anyone who doesn't abide by their heteronormative view of the world for the last however many hundreds of years or anything
> 
> but seriously, please don't say things along the lines of "you're just as bad as the people you're against" in a discussion on heterosexism, cissexism, racism, sexism, etc. marginalized people hear that all the time as it is. saying "fuck it, I wish I could burn all their sorry asses" in a moment of anger is nothing like saying "all gay people are going to burn in hell, they should be denied basic rights, they're all sick *******, they're just like pedophiles, god hates them all, they shouldn't be allowed to raise children, etc." which is what we're told on a regular basis.
> 
> ...


I'm not dogging you for your beliefs.. I said this is what I believe based on what has worked for me.. I told you that I am not a judger and honestly I feel that just because I said that I believe in and love God you are judging me.. 

so how bout this:

Please don't put me in the same box as the glbt protesters and haters who happen to have a Christian name tattooed on there forehead and stop hating on me just because you are angry with them.. My way of thinking is not damaging to anyone unless I am forcing you to think it.. which I am not.. I was simply stating my beliefs which is what this thread was designed for... I don't appreciate the attack.. 

Do you seriously think that I was saying that gay people are sociopaths? I was not. Don't do that. Don't turn this around to get a small army to misunderstand and attack the point I was trying to make in presenting my view... Do you not want the views of others? heterosexuals included? or am I out because my _MAIN_ preference just happens to be male? You sound more like someone who is pushing *YOUR* views on others than I do.

And as it happens I will not stop going on about anything that I believe pertains to this topic.. thanks for the demand.. but no thanks.. It wasn't even a respectful request.. you sort of just demanded me to stop... as if you have that right.


----------



## Heather White Karnas (Mar 23, 2011)

Arbite said:


> Forcing yourself to be attracted is different from being naturally attracted.


explain please..


----------



## android654 (Jan 19, 2010)

Arbite said:


> Forcing yourself to be attracted is different from being naturally attracted.


I was just about to say that. But also, how can yous witch from being attracted to different genders without being attracted to both genders?


----------



## Fizz (Nov 13, 2010)

Cruciferae said:


> *What are your thoughts on homosexuality, and why?*
> I was going to post the Tomboy video but Fizz beat me to it.


I regret stealing your thunder. That song has been stuck in my head all day. I kid you not, it's on loop and it won't stop.


----------



## Drewbie (Apr 28, 2010)

Fizz said:


> I regret stealing your thunder. That song has been stuck in my head all day. I kid you not, it's on loop and it won't stop.


That happens to me a lot.


----------



## Heather White Karnas (Mar 23, 2011)

android654 said:


> I was just about to say that. But also, how can yous witch from being attracted to different genders without being attracted to both genders?


I just can... I don't know.. it's not without work. It takes a mental and emotional change.. but I have done it.. went back to it.. done it again.. So I know it is possible for me at least.. and if I can I kinda think anyone can.. but that's just *my *belief.

Maybe it is because I can see things differently and change the way I see them when I try to and decide to.. maybe it's because I can bring on emotions that I want to bring on.. maybe it's because I can see different possibilities for almost everything.. Maybe I'm not normal...

I have even been really really sick and made myself believe that I wasn't and continued on with my daily life and didn't feel it at all through mind over matter.. that's another aspect of this what I'm talking about. But like I said before.. to each their own.. doesn't effect me what anyone does with the lights off or thinks or feels in their own hearts and minds..

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying that I'm awesome and have superior self control.. I don't.. there are many things that I wish I could exert more control over.. but I probably could if I worked on it hard enough.


----------



## android654 (Jan 19, 2010)

Heather White Karnas said:


> I just can... I don't know.. it's not without work. It takes a mental and emotional change.. but I have done it.. went back to it.. done it again.. So I know it is possible for me at least.. and if I can I kinda think anyone can.. but that's just *my *belief.


So you are in effect forcing yourself. Then its more like you're adhering to a superimposed image of what you should be rather than who you actually are.


----------



## Stephen (Jan 17, 2011)

android654 said:


> So you are in effect forcing yourself. Then its more like you're adhering to a superimposed image of what you should be rather than who you actually are.


It also sounds like she could simply be bisexual, and very loyal in her relationships, what do you think?

Ugh, but then I'm applying a label to her sexuality, and I'd rather not do that.


----------



## TheWaffle (Aug 4, 2010)

Homophobia is one of the few things in life that can make my blood boil.

Just watching this video made me angry, even though I knew that the people making the offensive remarks were actors.


----------



## Heather White Karnas (Mar 23, 2011)

android654 said:


> So you are in effect forcing yourself. Then its more like you're adhering to a superimposed image of what you should be rather than who you actually are.


possibly.. but it changes things for me to do it.. and how much of perception is one's own reality? I can make a perception reality in ways. Don't know what else to call it or how else to describe it.. but I can and have and do..

It's more like when I want to be not attracted to or have desire for something I just make myself not have that desire.. with a lot of work.. I don't really know how else to say it.. I don't feel like I'm denying that it's there.. It really goes away.. I have to look at it different to get it to go away and then different again to get it to come back.. but it really goes away.


----------



## android654 (Jan 19, 2010)

Heather White Karnas said:


> possibly.. but it changes things for me to do it.. and how much of perception is one's own reality? I can make a perception reality in ways. Don't know what else to call it or how else to describe it.. but I can and have and do..


Its not that complicated. If I one day start noticing guys are attractive to me, I might take a few days to think it over since its a new thought. But in the end if I'm attracted to them then I am. Why would you force yourself though? You are in effect cutting peopel out of your life that you may wish you hadn't.


----------



## Heather White Karnas (Mar 23, 2011)

android654 said:


> Its not that complicated. If I one day start noticing guys are attractive to me, I might take a few days to think it over since its a new thought. But in the end if I'm attracted to them then I am. Why would you force yourself though? You are in effect cutting peopel out of your life that you may wish you hadn't.


 I've had to consider a lot of different ways of thinking and dealing with things (right/wrong) being brought up in a strict Christian home. This is why I have turned my thinking and my ways and my desires back and forth. I guess I just believe that I am in control of natural desires more so than most believe is possible. If I'm not then I'm definitely not convinced of that. On the contrary I'm convinced having proved to myself otherwise that I am on to something big with this. At least for myself anyways.


----------



## tuna (Jun 10, 2010)

Heather White Karnas said:


> I'm not dogging you for your beliefs.. I said this is what I believe based on what has worked for me.. I told you that I am not a judger and honestly I feel that just because I said that I believe in and love God you are judging me..
> 
> so how bout this:
> 
> ...


I am not attacking your beliefs. I pointed out that a queer person expressing outrage at institutionalized heterosexism (and heterosexism in general) is not comparable to the actions of the heterosexist douchebags who constantly attack us. and by attack us I mean _attack us_, not just verbally harass us, prevent us from marrying, bully teens into killing themselves, etc. I doubt that ~glbt protestors~ have ever lived in fear of physical assault or murder because of their hatred of LGBTQ people.

I did not attack you personally. I did not attack you for loving god. I attacked your comparison of gay people to sociopaths.

there is not a "small army" of ~evil angry queers~ out to get you, lmfao. you are not being persecuted here.

honestly, I'm really not sure what you're trying to accomplish here? I didn't attack you personally (although I did call you out, which is not the same thing) and I'm pretty sure that that's clear. yes, in a discussion on heterosexism, the voice of a queer person is more relevant than the voice of a straight person. I thought you were straight, as I've only seen you talk about being attracted to men -- I apologize for assuming your sexuality there. however, if you _are_ heterosexual, then yes, your voice is not as important here, just as the voice of a white person is not as important in a discussion on racism, and just as the voice of a cissexual person is not as important in a discussion on cissexism. the marginalized group is the most important group to listen to, because they're the ones who are being most hurt by the institutionalized systems of prejudice, and they're the ones with the most experience of those institutionalized systems of prejudice.

yes, I have the right to ask you to stop saying harmful things. and you have the right to continue saying those harmful things if you so choose to. I made a request and you are free to decline it. I do hope that you respect it, however, because perpetuating the belief that people can change their sexualities is truly harmful to many, many people.


----------



## android654 (Jan 19, 2010)

Heather White Karnas said:


> I've had to consider a lot of different ways of thinking and dealing with things (right/wrong) being brought up in a strict Christian home. This is why I have turned my thinking and my ways and my desires back and forth. I guess I just believe that I am in control of natural desires more so than most believe is possible. If I'm not then I'm definitely not convinced of that. On the contrary I'm convinced having proved to myself otherwise that I am on to something big with this. At least for myself anyways.


I wont try to influence your thoughts on your religion. However, if you are christian, then you believe in the simple concept that man was created in the image of God. Yes? If that was the case, and you see that there are so many people attracted to the same sex and both sexes with no differences between those who are attracted to opposite sexes; where is the harm? Where is the defining principle that makes you think that there is something unnatural in being attracted in the way that you are? 

Also, if you're forcing a desire, then its neither desirable nor natural.


----------



## Roland Khan (May 10, 2009)

Kr3m1in said:


> well put, bro.
> I think I get it now.


there sarcasm in that? :?


----------



## Heather White Karnas (Mar 23, 2011)

android654 said:


> I wont try to influence your thoughts on your religion. However, if you are christian, then you believe in the simple concept that man was created in the image of God. Yes? If that was the case, and you see that there are so many people attracted to the same sex and both sexes with no differences between those who are attracted to opposite sexes; where is the harm? Where is the defining principle that makes you think that there is something unnatural in being attracted in the way that you are?
> 
> Also, if you're forcing a desire, then its neither desirable nor natural.


Honestly I question my belief in God a lot.. so much of it doesn't make sense to me.. but I get really scared when I do that.. so I just chose to believe in it and be loving and love Him and deal with the rest as I go along.. bad bad bad I know.. but this is the honest truth.. so now's a bad time to question what I believe about *what the bible says* because that's part of the confusion for me.. and I ignore the confusion about that aspect of my life as much as possible at this particular time.


----------



## Zster (Mar 7, 2011)

What are your thoughts on homosexuality, and why?

It's a legitimate natural attraction, not a choice, not an aberration - much as I seem to be very naturally drawn to a certain type, very consistently and without conscious planning.


What are your thoughts on homophobia, and why?

Strongly dislike it, especially when rationalized by those applying a religion that is supposedly based on love and acceptance. In no way can your homophobic hate be justified as in any way loving. Sorry, not buying it.

What really strikes me about homophobia:
1. It relfects a dirty mind. I get an "eww" factor from visualizing almost anyone I know having sex - ****, hetero, or otherwise - NOT my darned business. For it to bother me, I sort of have to think about the act. Why go there?
2. It requires a bit of paranoia, narcissism, or both. I mean, honestly - do most GUYS lust after me? (highly doubt it). Then why would I assume any/many/most gals do? That's nuts! NO one is that hot, really.

Viva le difference!!!!


----------



## Roland Khan (May 10, 2009)

Evergreen23 said:


> Okay, I misposted. The point of the video was not to say that God created gays (as an agnostic/atheist, I don't believe that either), but to say that, for those who are concerned with the religious aspect of homosexuality, God doesn't really care if you're gay, lesbian, or bi. You're accepted as one of his kids regardless. Although, bringing in the whole nature/nurture argument, if homosexuals are born that way, does that mean that God created them to be as such?


im atheist as well, was just making a point on how these people will claim to be christians. good loving christians, who follow jesus's teaching, then go out gaybashing, or hating on other people for minor differences in thought.

for those who are religious, dont take that as an insult or that i was being sarcastic in any way towards the religion. i have my feelings toward religion but ill keep those in the religion debates, i was just makin fun of the bastards who are out there protesting or speak out so strongly against them in the name of god. i mean the bible does say that the lord is to be the judge of men, not men, right? we are supposed to all love each other, all of gods creatures and children, right? i mean come on people, practice what you preach for fucks sake! just tolerate it, dont worry, those sick bastards wont be allowed into your heavenly paradise, so why you bothered?


----------



## Heather White Karnas (Mar 23, 2011)

tuna said:


> I am not attacking your beliefs. I pointed out that a queer person expressing outrage at institutionalized heterosexism (and heterosexism in general) is not comparable to the actions of the heterosexist douchebags who constantly attack us. and by attack us I mean _attack us_, not just verbally harass us, prevent us from marrying, bully teens into killing themselves, etc. I doubt that ~glbt protestors~ have ever lived in fear of physical assault or murder because of their hatred of LGBTQ people.
> 
> I did not attack you personally. I did not attack you for loving god. I attacked your comparison of gay people to sociopaths.
> 
> ...


 wrong wrong and wrong.. 

You do not have any more right to tell me to stop voicing my opinion/views than I have to tell you to stop voicing yours.. You do have the right however to *ask* me to stop perpetuating harmful pretensions.. which is not what I was doing (proven by my saying over and over that my beliefs are partial and pertinent to me.. and may not be helpful or work for others or even correct for that matter), to which I would have taken into more consideration if having been asked, with respect and consideration of where I was coming from and with what intentions I had in my offering. So no you don't have the right you think you have just because of who/what you are.

Also.. you are wrong in that my points and/or views and/or posts and/or exposition as a hetero/bi/bi-curious sexual or what ever the hell I am *which I do not title* (sorry if this also annoys those of you who are clear on your societal titles) are not significant/valuable! How dare you?! The OP asked a general question and I posted my side of the story without bias or judgment.. and your disagreement with my views has now become a debate for you as to weather or not I should even be taken into consideration on this topic? That is ridiculous! My views are just as poignant as yours in this case. Furthermore I was having a discussion and revealing my side and reasons for my side just as everyone else was.. no matter what my sexual preference was.. I was doing it without bias and without prejudice and without judgment to others. 

So you wait till I say that I have a sexual attraction to the same sex in any way to concede to my relevancy? Again ridiculous.

I will read, when I get the chance, the information in the link that you have provided. And I will get back to you with what I think and feel about it when I have done so.. because I do, unlike you, _care _about *all* of the views of others.. even ones who I don't agree with or do not respect. Because these views are what can make changes and/or determine a way to understanding and acceptance... If we were all so quick to say "STOP SAYING THAT!" and/or "YOUR VIEW DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE YOUR NOT GAY!" then we'd get nowhere now wouldn't we? Which is why, I believe, that the OP has asked these questions in the first place.. and (get this) he didn't even ask a specific type or sexual preference.. he asked whoever felt like answering to answer.. IE: ME! So I'd suggest that _you_ *stop* acting so superior and educated about *my* views when you are actually suppressing the whole reason for the discussion on this topic!

Also.. what I am trying to *get at here* is deeper understanding of differences and the whys/whens/hows/whats/wheres/whos of them.. same thing the OP is trying to _*get at here*_.


----------



## Sara Torailles (Dec 14, 2010)

Heather White Karnas said:


> I just can... I don't know.. it's not without work. It takes a mental and emotional change.. but I have done it.. went back to it.. done it again.. So I know it is possible for me at least.. and if I can I kinda think anyone can.. but that's just *my *belief.


I think you can change who you like, just not on a broad basis like homosexuality. There has been scientific evidence that gayness has biological correlates. In fact, the brain structure of gay people is different from straight people.

I have changed who I like on a specific basis. There was this girl who I thought of as just a friend, but it was really obvious she had a crush on me. I then thought about what a kind caring person she was and how we did have a lot in common. I actually developed a crush on this girl... Thank goodness I did not pursue anything because she happened to have some issues with her mental stability. It's not always a wise idea to try and change who you like. 

But I have not changed the fact that I am bicurious. Believe me, I've tried.


----------



## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

android654 said:


> I wont try to influence your thoughts on your religion. However, if you are christian, then you believe in the simple concept that man was created in the image of God. Yes? If that was the case, and you see that there are so many people attracted to the same sex and both sexes with no differences between those who are attracted to opposite sexes; where is the harm? Where is the defining principle that makes you think that there is something unnatural in being attracted in the way that you are?


Because of the few "proof" verses in the Bible (probably Romans 1 is the most problematic), which then in order to make it all fit, homosexuality and other vices are just assumed to either be choice regardless of how such feelings are experienced, or else just a product of a "Fallen World" as per Garden of Eden. Many things can be subsumed within the idea that, when created, human beings were "perfect" and then the Fall brought a bunch of these other feelings so that man is inherently sinful and thus feeling a certain way from birth is no longer something to just blindly accept -- it can easily still represent feelings that God does not endorse.

That's typically the two courses of reasoning that I see being used.



> Also, if you're forcing a desire, then its neither desirable nor natural.


Yeah, that line of argument won't cut it. You'll probably get a response about, "Well, you might feel like you have fallen out of love with your spouse and are in love with someone else, but that doesn't mean you should commit adultery regardless of how natural it feels."


----------



## Michael82 (Dec 13, 2010)

I think that there is a huge misunderstanding here...

Isn't homophobia simply a fear of homosexuals? Not that they would WANT to fear, but just the state of being. Y'know what I mean? :laughing: :wink:


----------



## Heather White Karnas (Mar 23, 2011)

Michael82 said:


> I think that there is a huge misunderstanding here...
> 
> Isn't homophobia simply a fear of homosexuals? Not that they would WANT to fear, but just the state of being. Y'know what I mean? :laughing: :wink:


 This whole topic is misunderstood except to those who have there own personal understanding of any part of it..
Also... @Cruciferae has defined homophobia and defined the differences in the uses of the term in an earlier post on this thread.


----------



## Heather White Karnas (Mar 23, 2011)

I do want to say that I am open-minded and rarely ever have a set-in-stone mind set about beliefs unless it has been proven to me with undeniable proof... even then I have the tendency question the validity of the proof on most things. Things that I have come to believe I do so with the recognition that I am using a compromised and limited amount of comprehension, therefore who am I to say that it is or isn't *definitely* that way on any matter? This is why I am open to discussing things with those who have different perspectives... I just want everyone to be aware of this part of me when they read my posts, so that they can understand my perspective and not come in and hit me with their 'YOU-ARE-SO-WRONG-AND-BAD-FOR-BEING-SUCH-AND-I-MUST-EXTERMINATE-YOUR-VALIDITY-AND-INPUT weapon.' My objective here is to broaden my perspective/understanding/information so as to be well rounded when I am choosing what to believe and why, as well as to broaden your perspectives and information as well.


----------



## snail (Oct 13, 2008)

Michael82 said:


> I think that there is a huge misunderstanding here...
> 
> Isn't homophobia simply a fear of homosexuals? Not that they would WANT to fear, but just the state of being. Y'know what I mean? :laughing: :wink:


That is what the word should mean, when it is dissected into its parts, but that isn't what it is usually used to mean. When I commented about homophobia, I wasn't referring to the actual phobia, but rather, to the more common hatred of homosexuals that comes from a choice to be intolerant.


----------



## Roland Khan (May 10, 2009)

Heather White Karnas said:


> I do want to say that I am open-minded and rarely ever have a set-in-stone mind set about beliefs unless it has been proven to me with undeniable proof... even then I have the tendency question the validity of the proof on most things. Things that I have come to believe I do so with the recognition that I am using a compromised and limited amount of comprehension, therefore who am I to say that it is or isn't *definitely* that way on any matter? This is why I am open to discussing things with those who have different perspectives... I just want everyone to be aware of this part of me when they read my posts, so that they can understand my perspective and not come in and hit me with their 'YOU-ARE-SO-WRONG-AND-BAD-FOR-BEING-SUCH-AND-I-MUST-EXTERMINATE-YOUR-VALIDITY-AND-INPUT club.' My objective here is to broaden my perspective/understanding/information so as to be well rounded when I am choosing what to believe and why, as well as to broaden your perspectives and information as well.




Me too, until you start oppressing people and denying them the same rights as everybody else.....


----------



## girlsgonewilde (May 16, 2011)

"I'm not gay, although I wish I were, just to piss off homophobes_" - Kurt Cobain
_


----------



## thor odinson (May 21, 2011)

Shahada said:


> Words do have meanings, but they don't have static meanings that never change from their original etymology. "Homophobia" has evolved to mean something quite different from "an irrational fear of homosexuals."


Well given the controversy surrounding the word and and it's widespread use in pop culture no wonder the words taken on various definitions and it's still subject to change. The word psycho has now become attritbuted to serial killers in the sense that it's short for psychopath, but clinically that's incorrect. Psycho is not short for psychopath, it's short for psychotic and psychotic is different from psychopathic.

1. Psychotic: a mental disorder wherein an individual experiences delusions or even hallucinations in severe cases of psychosis. They may exhibit traits such as hearing voices or seeing things. They are out of touch with reality i.e. the devil made me do it types.

2. Psychopath, different from Psychotic. Psychopath characterises an individual who posseses no remorse or empathy, and is driven to seek reward even at the expense of others but nevertheless remains firmly in touch with reality. Given the widespread use of the two words they have become to be used interchangeably. 

But nonetheless I maintain there is a clinical deifnition. I hold the same view in regards to homophobia. If you classify something as a phobia be it ****, hydra, agora, arachna whatever, it must meet the same scientifically evaluated criteria. I acknowledge that there exists this concept of homophobia in mainstream society which is taken to mean virtually any form of antagonism against homosexual be it mild or severe, and I disagree with such destructive behaviour, but nevertheless I maintain to me homophobia in it's truest sense is what I described to be in my earlier post. That's just my opinion.


----------



## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

So is this thread a clinical setting, or a mainstream society setting?

Context. I feel like we're yammering over a meaningless distinction for the purposes of this generalized opinion thread.


----------



## Fizz (Nov 13, 2010)

Cut the semantic shit people. We don't care that you know how to use a dictionary, get over it. 

I'm sure the OP is referring to homophobia in the terms of irrational hate/dislike of homosexuals. Not a fear of them, this has spanned too many pages.


----------



## Fizz (Nov 13, 2010)

Jennywocky said:


> So is this thread a clinical setting, or a mainstream society setting?
> 
> Context. I feel like we're yammering over a meaningless distinction for the purposes of this generalized opinion thread.


I would suppose mainstream society, as that is more encompassing than clinical.


----------



## thor odinson (May 21, 2011)

Jennywocky said:


> So is this thread a clinical setting, or a mainstream society setting?
> 
> Context. I feel like we're yammering over a meaningless distinction for the purposes of this generalized opinion thread.


Even "irrational hate", your words not mine, I fail to see a how something like a hypothetical statement like the one I described above regarding the idea of marriage fits this "irrational hate". As for generalised purposes I've already stated I disagree with antagonism towards gays, all I smply said was that I find it hard to comment on that word because it's so subjective. it means different things to different people.


----------



## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

thor odinson said:


> Even "irrational hate", your words not mine, I fail to see a how something like a hypothetical statement like the one I described above regarding the idea of marriage fits this "irrational hate". As for generalised purposes I've already stated I disagree with antagonism towards gays, all I smply said was that I find it hard to comment on that word because it's so subjective. it means different things to different people.


I think you have already made that point very clear, there's no confusion about how you read the word or what your opinion on ****"phobia" is. So meaning has been properly conveyed regardless.

And my point is that we are now wasting posts arguing over the meaning of a word that everyone in this thread apparently already understands the context in which it is being used, even if it is not "technically" accurate. 

That's a semantics/deconstruction issue unrelated to the topic of this thread.

EDIT: "Irrational hate, your word not mine..." I just searched this thread and I'm not aware of using the phrase "irrational hate." That's not my phrase, as far as I can tell. I'm not sure why you're quibbling over "homophobia," then getting sloppy with content so that I actually needed to bother doing a search on the thread.


----------



## thor odinson (May 21, 2011)

Vaan said:


> Well if homophobia as a medical term is untrue of society then the term itself needs to be changed anyway because hatred for a random reason without intense fear and almost psychological problems then that is NOT a phobia, its just a "haters gonna hate" thing, not a phobia :/
> 
> So as much as it dosent make sense the proper term would be Mis-****-sexus
> 
> ...


Given the above response from another person I'd say I'm not the only one who sought this clarification. And I fail to see how asking for such which enables to me to give a truer response is wasting threads. You can go on forever.


----------



## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

Yes, we could, but I won't. See ya.


----------



## thor odinson (May 21, 2011)

Sorry the "irrational hate" quote was supposed to be a response to Fizz not you. My mistake.

P.S. Goodbye


----------



## Roland Khan (May 10, 2009)

down with the ****!

oh wait, did everybody leave. eh fuck it, let me just grab this cake real quick.....im gonna eat it too.












ps. for those who may not have read my earlier posts in this thread and dk that im joking, the first sentence above was pure joke/sarcasm. 

to gay people: you're here, you're queer, i fuckin support it


----------



## Heather White Karnas (Mar 23, 2011)

roland787 said:


> down with the ****!
> 
> Oh wait, did everybody leave. Eh fuck it, let me just grab this cake real quick.....im gonna eat it too.
> 
> ...


lmao..........


----------



## Fizz (Nov 13, 2010)

@thor odinson Please stop derailing the thread.


----------



## Fizz (Nov 13, 2010)

thor odinson said:


> Sorry the "irrational hate" quote was supposed to be a response to Fizz not you. My mistake.
> 
> P.S. Goodbye


Homophobia:  An extreme and *irrational aversion* to homosexuality and homosexual people

Homophobia: prejudice against (fear or dislike of) homosexual people and homosexuality


Fear OR dislike of. Oh, and "irrational aversion", I also made it pink and pretty.


----------



## Kriash (May 5, 2011)

I don't get the debate over the actual definition of homophobia, I think everyone knows what the accepted meaning is- regardless of what the specific parts mean.

As far as it being insulting to those who actually have a phobia of homosexuals, I've never heard of anyone who suffers from it, and if someone who did was to speak up and tell me they don't like me using the word homophobic in the way that its normally accepted, I wouldn't.


----------



## Shahada (Apr 26, 2010)

I find the idea of clinically homophobic people hilarious myself. 

"Wow, what a homophobe..."

"Um, excuse me, that's very insensitive to my condition, I actually have homophobia. I have no problem with homosexuals, I just have this irrational fear of anything related to them that comes from nowhere! I wish it would go away but it never does, I have to hide in a closet every time I see, hear, or read anything related to homosexuals. So could you PLEASE be a little more sensitive here?"

Is this actually a thing that happens? lol...


----------



## Vaan (Dec 19, 2010)

Fizz said:


> Homophobia:  An extreme and *irrational aversion* to homosexuality and homosexual people
> 
> Homophobia: prejudice against (fear or dislike of) homosexual people and homosexuality
> 
> ...


Nowhere in the term **** or Phobia is the term "dislike" used, in arachnophobia

a·rach·no·pho·bi·a/əˌraknəˈfōbēə/
Noun: Extreme or irrational fear of spiders

I dont read it as Prejudice against "fear or dislike of" Spiders

The term was (incorrectly) coined in 1972 by psychologist and gay activist George Weinberg. Society has just immediately accepted that homophobia is a hatred of homosexuals, and has even manipulated the actual roots of the word to suit their definition, lol people are just as gullible to societies values and belifs and follows them unquestioningly as they were decades ago -_-

Anyway, phobia means simply "fear of" and **** means "same", so even by that it dosent make sense lol, fear of same?


----------



## Cubie (May 3, 2011)

*Homosexuality:* I think it's totally fine, it's who you are and you shouldn't have to change that for anyone. I think it's your business what your sexuality is and whatever it is, it's totally fine.

*Homophobia:* I don't really understand why some people has homophobia, We're all just people but again it is someone's opinion.


----------



## Fizz (Nov 13, 2010)

Vaan said:


> Nowhere in the term **** or Phobia is the term "dislike" used, in arachnophobia
> 
> a·rach·no·pho·bi·a/əˌraknəˈfōbēə/
> Noun: Extreme or irrational fear of spiders
> ...


Have you not read what everyone else has put? Words are not static and I told everyone to drop the semantics.


You are derailing this thread on a topic that we should have stopped discussing many pages ago.


----------



## Vaan (Dec 19, 2010)

Fizz said:


> Have you not read what everyone else has put? Words are not static and I told everyone to drop the semantics.
> 
> 
> You are derailing this thread on a topic that we should have stopped discussing many pages ago.


So it dosent matter if something isnt right in meaning as long as you get to say what you want to say? Sounds Silly -_-

Anyway i agree this thread should've ended quite a few pages ago ^^


----------



## Roland Khan (May 10, 2009)

Vaan said:


> Nowhere in the term **** or Phobia is the term "dislike" used, in arachnophobia
> 
> a·rach·no·pho·bi·a/əˌraknəˈfōbēə/
> Noun: Extreme or irrational fear of spiders
> ...


language is an ever evolving tool to communicate. its always changing, and meanings of words are whatever people accept them to be. obviously it takes large group of people to change or add a definition to a word otherwise the person using different one wouldnt make any sense to anybody else. but as more and more people learn what somebody means and if they accept it, theyll start using and itll spread, therefore changing the language as it always has done.


----------

