# Master of Manipulation ENTP,ESTP or ENFJ



## Humaning (Aug 29, 2010)

Who would be the most influential of the three? Who is the biggest threat to the unsuspecting public?
Only your posts will tell...


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## mnemonicfx (Sep 5, 2010)

Our posts won't tell. 

An influential person may have more influence outside the internet. The internet is an open medium where anyone could voice their thoughts with little inhibition.

On the real life, it should be ENTP. On the internet, it could be anyone with an N, T, and P.


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## Humaning (Aug 29, 2010)

mnemonicfx said:


> Our posts won't tell.
> 
> An influential person may have more influence outside the internet. The internet is an open medium where anyone could voice their thoughts with little inhibition.
> 
> On the real life, it should be ENTP. On the internet, it could be anyone with an N, T, and P.


Perhaps, you would like to change your user name to Mr. Literal. I suggest you do before another Dwight Shrute-like person finds out about the site.


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## ShadowPlay (Feb 24, 2010)

I think they would differ in what they manipulate.

*ESTP* - could probably manipulate people into letting go of their hard earned cash for their own benefits, for example, why does going out partying with ESTP's always end up so darn expensive. They'll conveniently reassure you that it was the best time ever and somehow get you to agree to do it all again next week :S


*ENFJ* - Will manipulate people 'for their own good'. For example, if said ENFJ truly believes that a 10 minutes of meditating in the morning sun with an apple balance perfectly on your right foot, is a sure path to enlightenment and inner peace, then you will strangely find yourself giving up a good hour a day striking ridiculous poses. Apologies in advance to some dear PC friends, but nasty ENFJ will wither your self-esteem down to a mere morsel, and you'll find yourself thanking them for being so patient with you :S


*ENTP* - Will manipulate for their own achievement/image/or for the sheer amusement they get simply from watching your face change when you realize you've been tricked. For example, you could be in a lengthy debate with one, and through a series of strategically planned questions you'll find yourself accidently arguing against your original point. The ENTP smirks whist trying to cover their tricksy delight, everyone thinks you are daft, and that the ENTP looks extremely clever. This is how they get promotions!


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## Xplosive (Mar 4, 2010)

ESTP and ENTP generally are overrated for their manipulative ability, they might like to get a reaction out of someone or see what happens if they do such and such, but they aren't particularly skilled at it.

ENFJ are the natural PUA of the world, if that's the type of manipulation you're referring to (manipulating women into bed).

INFJ and INTJ are typically the best at most types of manipulation and are the biggest threat to unsuspecting public for sure (very good at getting under the radar).


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## Vaka (Feb 26, 2010)

Xplosive said:


> ESTP and ENTP generally are overrated for their manipulative ability, they might like to get a reaction out of someone or see what happens if they do such and such, but they aren't particularly skilled at it.
> 
> ENFJ are the natural PUA of the world, if that's the type of manipulation you're referring to (manipulating women into bed).


The reason is that I've rarely heard of xNFJs manipulating for their own sake. ExTPs are more likely to use it as a tool IME and are, therefore, technically a bigger threat.


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## Xplosive (Mar 4, 2010)

Paranoid Android said:


> The reason is that I've rarely heard of xNFJs manipulating for their own sake. ExTPs are more likely to use it as a tool IME and are, therefore, technically a bigger threat.


I actually think INxJ are a WAY bigger threat as dominant Ni holds the subjective view of the way things should be and their deepest desire is to want to bring it to reality, which generally means they have to manipulate to make it happen.

ESTP/ENTP etc. don't possess that deep intrinsic motivation to do so.


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## Vaka (Feb 26, 2010)

Xplosive said:


> I actually think INxJ are a WAY bigger threat as dominant Ni holds the subjective view of the way things should be and their deepest desire is to want to bring it to reality, which generally means they have to manipulate to make it happen.
> 
> ESTP/ENTP etc. don't possess that deep intrinsic motivation to do so.


I'd associate tendencies with manipulation with Fe. I don't think that INTJs would be as big on it as INFJs. Otherwise you could say the exact same thing for IxTPs and IxFPs as Fi and Ti also give strong views that are subjective.


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## mnemonicfx (Sep 5, 2010)

Humaning said:


> Perhaps, you would like to change your user name to Mr. Literal. I suggest you do before another Dwight Shrute-like person finds out about the site.


I honestly do not know that you're offended when I said "our posts won't tell".
I'm just looking at this from my limited knowledge of MBTI.

I also have to google to find out who is Mr Literal and Dwight Schrute.


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## lirulin (Apr 16, 2010)

Paranoid Android said:


> I'd associate tendencies with manipulation with Fe. I don't think that INTJs would be as big on it as INFJs. Otherwise you could say the exact same thing for IxTPs and IxFPs as Fi and Ti also give strong views that are subjective.


Yeah...our plans don't exactly tend to involve other humans much, so there is no real value in manipulating them.


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## mnemonicfx (Sep 5, 2010)

From The Personality Page

ENTP: The Visionary
ESTP: The Doer
ENFJ: The Giver

This is why I said ENTP could be the most manipulative. Perhaps you would want to include ENFP: The Inspirer.


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## Xplosive (Mar 4, 2010)

Paranoid Android said:


> I'd associate tendencies with manipulation with Fe. I don't think that INTJs would be as big on it as INFJs. Otherwise you could say the exact same thing for IxTPs and IxFPs as Fi and Ti also give strong views that are subjective.


Manipulation is basically leveraging a situation to your advantage or getting what you want - not necesarily a social situation - it could be a logical system.

For INTJ/INFJ, Te and Fe are both means to an end to take action to get the Ni view of how things should be out e.g. for Ni/Te style manipulation, there are plenty of extremely wealthy INTJ corporates out there that have manipulated the legal system to their advantage etc.

Fi and Ti doesn't hold particularly strong views the same Ni and also Si do - they are adaptive, compass functions so react to events that occur in real time whilst Ni and Si are directive, worldview functions.


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## Shadow1980 (Jul 17, 2009)

My best friend in the world was an ESTP and I'm an ENFJ. We were scary manipulative together. We could go on a road trip and not pay for a single thing, legally. lol 

I disagree that INFJ's are good manipulators. My current best friends are both INFJ's. They are way too protective and pessimistic to be effective manipulators. They tend to distrust others and they are not shy about it. When you distrust other people other people tend to distrust you.


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## MartyMcFly1 (Nov 14, 2010)

Xplosive said:


> Manipulation is basically leveraging a situation to your advantage or getting what you want - not necesarily a social situation - it could be a logical system.
> 
> For INTJ/INFJ, Te and Fe are both means to an end to take action to get the Ni view of how things should be out e.g. for Ni/Te style manipulation, there are plenty of extremely wealthy INTJ corporates out there that have manipulated the legal system to their advantage etc.
> 
> Fi and Ti doesn't hold particularly strong views the same Ni and also Si do - they are adaptive, compass functions so react to events that occur in real time whilst Ni and Si are directive, worldview functions.


I know a ton of INFJ's and I don't think I've ever met a single one that I would consider manipulative. Nice, sensitive people, but not manipulative at all.

Now ENFJ's, wow, those guys can manipulate the hell out of you if you don't see it coming. Their tendency to always say the right thing combined with the fact that they are able to make every interaction they have seem secretive makes them master manipulators. In my experience, they tend to be extremely two-faced and can turn the whole world against you if you are not prepared. I actually enjoy spending time with them due to the fact that with an ENFJ on my side, I can manipulate the entire world. If one is around, they usually pick up on what I'm trying to get out of the person I'm manipulating and help me accomplish my objective. They are great for collaboration. ENFJ's manipulate people to move themselves forward socially, they also tend not to see what they are doing as manipulation.

ESTP's can manipulate you to a certain point, usually though, their "say anything at anytime" nature gets the better of them and they wind up shooting themselves in the foot. It seems like they would also rather not be around people they don't like, even if given the chance to manipulate them. They are great at manipulating their friends though.ESTP's manipulate their friends in order to get what they want out of them(usually money, or that expensive watch you just bought).

ENTP's tend to spend a lot of time with people they don't like so that they can manipulate them to oblivion. I, however would never manipulate my friends(unless they are doing something that I see as wrong and I want to manipulate them into doing it the right way, or if I want them to buy me dinner :crazy: ) ENTP's manipulate people they don't like in order to make them look stupid, or to just prove to themselves that they are smarter than you, it's really just a game.


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## cue5c (Oct 12, 2011)

This is a great thread so excuse me while I resurrect it for a second here.

I don't have much experience with ESTPs, so I couldn't tell you.

ENTPs are definitely manipulative, but in ways that are kind of childish. I'm not saying they're not complex, (Believe me, they are.) just that our manipulations are mostly ways to prove to ourselves and others how wonderful we are. 

ENFJs, however, don't see a lot of their manipulations as manipulation and that is a sign of a true master. Being able to genuinely believe that what you're doing is acceptable while providing the emotional response of how "terribly sorry" you are once you're caught is no small feat. I can mimic that to a certain effect, but if you look close enough there will be little signs. With an ENFJ you get nothing. I definitely admire them. They unknowingly teach so many great techniques.

:maniacal laugh:


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## Goooseeey (Feb 28, 2012)

ENTPs are manipulative, but not on some grandiose scale. Perhaps to get others to pull some small favors or to make good first impressions, but I believe that we prefer to keep some level of social norms and balance due to a tertiary Fe. However, perhaps given just the option of the three, ENTPs may be the most manipulative, as ESTPs tend to be much more action oriented and not thinking about some larger idea (correct me if I'm wrong), and ENFJs are oriented towards maintaining social stability with a dominant Fe. I think ENTJ is the most natural choice, but it is not given here.


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## Dark Romantic (Dec 27, 2011)

In my experience, ESTPs manipulate to get something they want, in the moment. The ESTPs I know are pretty good at this, but tend to be more cut, dried and direct than I would be, so, while it works very efficiently on the unsuspecting, they encounter a lot of unnecessary resistance that slows them down in the long term.

ENTPs manipulate for their own amusement most often, but we are more than capable of doing it solely for gain. It's almost always a game in some form: what changes is how much is game, and how much is gain. Problem with the game mentality is that we may do it at inopportune times, or we may screw with someone beyond getting what we need out of them. However, the more complex we make the game, the faster we progress.

I have less experience with ENFJs, but I've noticed that they tend to manipulate when they think it will help you. Because they believe so strongly in what they're saying most of the time, coupled with the fact that, almost by nature, they're quite attuned to what people's needs are, makes them very effective manipulators by default.

In the short term, I would say that ENFJs are the best at it, because they tend to do it in a way that is more disarming by default, and which is more congruent with their day to day personality. However, ENTPs do it best in the long run, because we tend to progress to weaving more and more complex webs with greater ease.


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## Bel Esprit (Aug 2, 2011)

Paranoid Android said:


> The reason is that I've rarely heard of xNFJs manipulating for their own sake. ExTPs are more likely to use it as a tool IME and are, therefore, technically a bigger threat.


I see this to be quite the opposite. In my experience, NFJs are the most likely type to manipulate, especially for their own sake. An unhealthy ESFJ, being the exception.

I've known many ENFPs to be quite good at manipulation as well.

As far as I know, I'm not closely aquainted with any EXTPs, so I can't comment further.


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## annonymous (Mar 22, 2012)

One of the most infamous ENFJs of all time was Hitler. He manipulated masses of people to following in his cause. This is due to the Giver's (or Teacher's) Idealist temperment. NF's are some of the best flirts and romantics because they are able to reach something deeper than just the thoughts of those they intend to manipulate, but their emotions. Though this may seem like it only appeals to the Ns and not Ss consider that NF temperments can are the people readers and know exactly what their targets want. This, coupled with the Giver's EJ carisma makes it much more efficent at manipulating in general.

The heart of it is though it depends who you are manipulating. To a SP a NF will be most effective because of their exciting ideas of what life can be. To a SJ a NT will be most effective because of their realistic "rational" views. SP's can manipulate anyone to some extent, but only in spur of the moment conditions in which SP's live and relate to people. These instances have little depth however and are not nearly as persuasive as an NF or NT. 

My vote then is ENFJ*


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## Bel Esprit (Aug 2, 2011)

annonymous said:


> One of the most infamous ENFJs of all time was Hitler. He manipulated masses of people to following in his cause.


What proof do you have that Hitler was an ENFJ? None. Many also believe he was an INFP. No one will ever know. You can't decide his type soley from a biography.


I do somewhat agree with your ideas regarding ENFJ, mainly because ENFJs are experts at reading people (along with ESTPs and INFJs of course), although I don't believe a healthy NF would ever manipulate anyone for sport or their benefit if they truly cared about the person.


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## Mendi the ISFJ (Jul 28, 2011)

Ive heard that ESTPs were the ones to steer clear of, not sure how accurate that information is.


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## Bel Esprit (Aug 2, 2011)

Mendi the ISFJ said:


> Ive heard that ESTPs were the ones to steer clear of, not sure how accurate that information is.


It is somewhat accurate. 

Their Se-Ti combination allows them to read peoples reactions better than other types (according to the theory anyways.) So when they are conversating with someone, they can easily analyze a persons body language (Se), and because they are detatched from emotions (opposed to Fi), they are not concerned with how they feel about it themselves and can accurately conclude the others intentions. 

What the ESTP chooses to do with this information however, is their buisness...


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## Mendi the ISFJ (Jul 28, 2011)

Existentialismz said:


> It is somewhat accurate.
> 
> Their Se-Ti combination allows them to read peoples reactions better than other types (according to the theory anyways.) So when they are conversating with someone, they can easily analyze a persons body language (Se), and because they are detatched from emotions (opposed to Fi), they are not concerned with how they feel about it themselves and can accurately conclude the others intentions.
> 
> What the ESTP chooses to do with this information however, is their buisness...


but wouldnt the same be true for ISTPs?


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## Sovereign (Aug 19, 2011)

I know an ESTP master manipulator. He reads body language like a savant. In his own words, the motivation is thrill-seeking. It is thrilling to convince someone to do something that benefits him. The bigger the challenge, the better the payoff. He really likes risk and risk-based games. He's a revered poker player. 

That's probably why people say ESTPs are the ones to steer clear of. If you couple the "in the moment" mastery with a slavery to instant self-gratification (might manifest from poor personality health and/or super-dominant Se crowding out other functions), you get a person with seemingly sociopathic tendencies and the tools to fulfill the accompanying desires. Edit: For clarity, this is not a generalization. This is not likely common, but it is possible. 

My only ENTP friend is an older one, and his manipulations are childish and humorous. He's very mellow, as he's of grandfather age, so that likely plays a big part. I've never met a confirmed ENFJ. 

As an aside, for those that suggested that we ENTJs are the most manipulative, I'd disagree. I'm pretty skilled, but I'd rather not have to resort to it. I'd rather just be direct if possible. We might be the most dangerous to the world, but that's not really related to manipulation. INTJs might well be another story, though...


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## Bel Esprit (Aug 2, 2011)

Mendi the ISFJ said:


> but wouldnt the same be true for ISTPs?


 I suppose, but the ESTP would be more accurate seeing as they're extroverted and focused on the outward environment. The combination works better when the Se is supported by Ti.


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## Misha (Dec 18, 2011)

I wonder why ENFP didn't make the list?

The are the master of making you like them to every bits of their words and actions. And once they've acheived this, they started to lose interest on you and move on with a new target that catches their attention.


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## donkeybals (Jan 13, 2011)

Enfj's are good. They seem so obvious in a neutral atmosphere too, you know the other person is getting manipulated in some manner, yet, you have to bite your tongue with them. Ironically enough, even if you KNOW they are manipulating you, you let them go ahead and do it anyway, just because you think you can dodge their spell. Even if you go into it with this mind set, they still have you second guessing yourself.


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## niss (Apr 25, 2010)

First, all types manipulate others. Some are less inclined to do so, but manipulation is not limited to just a few types. That said, those types more likely to engage in some form of manipulation are:

ESTPs tend to manipulate others in what they consider best for all, but will definitely benefit the ESTP. Push come to shove, the ESTP will make sure that they benefit from the situation.

ENFPs tend to manipulate others in what they consider best for the other person, sometimes to the detriment of the ENFP.

ESFPs tend to manipulate others in what they consider best for the other person - with an emphasis on what is good for themselves. An ESFP is more careful that they do not get entangled or hurt during the process than is the ENFP, but is usually less ruthless in ensuring their personal benefit than is the ESTP. 

ENTPs tend to manipulate others in what they consider fun for everyone. They don't intend hurt; just some fun.

All of the ExxP types tend to manipulate in a manner that is more persuasive than forceful, and try to ensure mutual benefit for all parties. The ExxJ types tend to try to avoid the appearance of manipulation by using conformity to a standard as the cause/purpose of the manipulation, making the non-conformist face the "consequences" of their non-conforming actions - appealing to a structure or authority outside of themselves if one is available. If they are "the man," then they will make an appeal to your logic (emotional logic for the F types, empirical logic for the T types) as the final authority.

Where do the IxxP types and the IxxJ types fit in? They are similar to their extroverted brethren, but tend to limit their influence to smaller groups, or groups where they feel more comfortable in wielding such influence.


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## Sonny (Oct 14, 2008)

niss said:


> First, all types manipulate others.


Exactly.

Let's look at those sweet innocent ISFJs, always putting other's needs first and looking out for everyone... but not thinking twice about laying on a guilt trip,_ which is emotional manipulation_.

Everyone wants things to go the way that they want them to go. Everyone uses a form of manipulation, with or without awareness of what they are really doing.

Manipulation is about getting something you want out of another, in broad terms a F needs to have their emotions appealed to, a T their logic, seeing as that's how decisions are made. Therefore some types are naturally in sync in that their approach is particularly effective on another type. A Fe on Fe arrangement would likely work well for those Fe-dom/aux types. Try the same guilt trip on a strong Te type and it won't work so smoothly.

Seems like much of this thread is talking about who could be the best salesman, who could sell something that you don't want to you weather it's an idea, feeling or physical thing. And that is the type who can best read others to determine what approach will get an effective reaction out of another, to be good at this you have to be quick to read others and have individual approaches for individuals.

Anyone into typology has a leg up here if they chose to use it.

ESTPs are about enthusiasm in my experience, if the person they are selling something to reacts to that then things will go their way, it's easy to get caught up in their hype and confidence, but I question how effective their approach is on those who do not get into an emotive or impulsive buzz. How well could an ESTP manipulate your average xNTJ for example? They are more likely to annoy them if they tried.

ENFJs are about all-encompassing Fe, they feel strongly and unless they change emotion to logic for those types who need that, their form of manipulation would be more about charisma and having people like them so they want to do what they want them to do. Can't see your average xSTP buying that easily.

Reading people and figuring out their motives quickly is something, in my biased pov, I believe ENxPs are naturally good at, therefore getting what we want isn't so tough, changing approach based on the other person's responses is also natural. I don't say that ENxPs are the best manipulators however, just that the base is there naturally, to be used if desired.

You all do it, it's just that ExTPs don't view manipulation as a dirty word.


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## PhoenixRises (Sep 17, 2012)

This is an old thread but I just had to comment...ESTPs are definitely manipulative, but they are too focused on the short-term, thrill-of-the-moment type of stuff. A previous poster who mentioned that their friend was excellent in gambling is the perfect example of this. They are more the bull in the china shop type, a brute when it comes to convincing others to do something.

However, I'd say an ENFJ is a type more focused on the long term goals. An ENTJ can also be extremely cunning and a master tactician; really all types are capable. I don't know any ENTPs nor have I studied that type, but I also want to throw a bone to the ENFPs of the world. I work with one and his warm personality disarms anyone who deals with him. He gets by with a smile for just about 90 percent of things. Myself on the other hand--I use a full deck of cards and know which ones to play based on the situation. A caveat: ENFJs are pretty altruistic beings. We don't use our skills for evil


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## Doom (Oct 25, 2010)

ENTPs as I see them are tricksters, they are the type to hit and run but once you spot what they're doing then they're easy to avoid, ESTPs are the same to a degree but I think it depends on the person, I saw this movie where this guy manipulated this kid to kill somebody and it reminded me of my ESTP friend and how he used to treat my ISFJ friend, I just see him as being silly but my other friend takes him seriously and comes off as scared of him when he gets like that.

I don't really have much experience with ENFJs but I can see them as being manipulative, being Fe dom's constantly trying to get people to see their views and with their Ni providing their reasoning and image of how things could be.

In regards to INFJs I find I can easily influence peoples opinions if I can express my self well enough but I'm not the type of person to get people to do what I want. Even as a kid because I can be stubborn with my beliefs but at the same time open minded I weigh up both sides but still stick to my original "side", if I can explain how/why I came to my thoughts I find I can get people on board but its more of an unintentional thing where I try to get people to understand rather than trying to manipulate them. Hitler wasn't an ENFJ, he was an INFJ and I think this is what happened to him so things turned out the way they did.


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## namelessentity (Oct 4, 2021)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> Now ENFJ's, wow, those guys can manipulate the hell out of you if you don't see it coming. Their tendency to always say the right thing combined with the fact that they are able to make every interaction they have seem secretive makes them master manipulators. In my experience, they tend to be extremely two-faced and can turn the whole world against you if you are not prepared. I actually enjoy spending time with them due to the fact that with an ENFJ on my side, I can manipulate the entire world. If one is around, they usually pick up on what I'm trying to get out of the person I'm manipulating and help me accomplish my objective. They are great for collaboration. ENFJ's manipulate people to move themselves forward socially, they also tend not to see what they are doing as manipulation.


Wow, your post has me thinking. I am an ENFJ, and I've always struggled with the juxtaposition of sincerely caring while also being able to maneuver anything I think 'should' happen in a situation. I've often wondered if my assumed altruism isn't also partially moderated by small tendencies of narcissism. Throughout my life, I have done very good and meaningful things, caring for people and helping people at extents to which few would ever even consider going; however, when times have gotten tough or when I've been unable to clearly deduce what is right versus wrong in a given situation, I realize that I can be extremely manipulative.

I'm 27, and it's taken me almost my entire life to realize this about myself. For most of my life, I have always seen myself as a seeker of truth and justice with a selfless and sincere desire to help people reach their truest potentials. Although I am proud of who I am and what I have done out of true selflessness and love for others, I now recognize that my behavior is instinctively manipulative in almost every context -- the vast majority of the time, this is manifested as 'good' manipulation (social engineering to pursue an intrinsically noble goal or benefit to others), but if I am not paying attention, this is sometimes unintentionally manifested as 'bad' manipulation (influencing people toward an end that doesn't have their best interests in mind or is just selfish in nature). 

I hate to admit this, but as an ENFJ guy, it's way too easy to compel a woman to sleep with me if I am not careful to constrain my approach from leveraging various influences which would either misrepresent my true intentions or otherwise violate the integrity of the engagement. In other words, it doesn't take me long to know EXACTLY what I would have to say and do to convince a woman to open herself up in profoundly deep, new, and unexpected ways and then sleep with me, truly enjoy herself while believing in the passion of the short-lived relationship. Then, we part ways without her blaming me for any kind of deception or ill intent, even if she had been made to feel that things were more meaningful to me than possible in a one-night-stand. She will leave feeling disappointed by the reality that I wasn't 'able' to offer more to her while also believing that the separation was both unforeseeable the night before yet unavoidable the morning after. She'll wind up feeling content about the situation and almost always will think I'm a very sincere, endlessly kind, and deeply passionate guy, wanting to remain friends and looking forward to the hope that I'll want to share her company (or bed) again down the line.

^^^This is the outcome I instinctively work out with nearly every woman I'm only interested in physically. I think at the end of it all, I'm the one who pays the biggest price, because I keep the cumulative guilt of enjoying the sincere vulnerability and physical passionate of each woman, while they each get to leave without any feelings of remorse or awareness of what has actually been orchestrated.

This is an extreme example, but it demonstrates the continuous internal battle I face as an ENFJ who is also human with human needs/desires. Is what I've described above wrong??? If so, what makes it wrong?? Is it the deception? It's certainly not the consequences faced by the woman -- they end up as a benefactor. With that consideration, is what I've described actually good?? Have I done these women a 'service,' providing them a perceivable genuine and romantic experience that isn't tactlessly trampled upon by an outwardly deceptive or selfish man who they could have alternatively gone home with??

These questions puzzle me, and I think they will for my entire life.

I think ENFJs like myself really can't help but 'manipulate' in most situations, since the behavior is second nature to us and rarely, if ever, done consciously. Presently, I believe ENFJs can become their best selves by recognizing these propensities and continuously monitoring themselves to prevent any 'bad' forms of manipulation. I don't think any of us could stop the 'good' manipulation, so I feel we should rather try to find ways of improving the purity of our intentions so that our 'good' manipulations are as close to true altruism as philosophically possible.


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## Eve81 (Oct 5, 2021)

I'd say the Fe doms, especially ENFJ's. Followed by ENTJ's and INTJ's.


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## Sinuous (Jun 18, 2021)

INTJs are the cruelest and most covert con artists


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

Well that was all an interesting read.
🤣

I was not offended.

I just notice no one who explained how ESTPs manipulated. Were ESTP. Lol.

Im NOT an emotional manipulator. And for the most part any ESTPs I’ve encountered past the age of 21 are also not. (That’s ExFJ). That are masters at that.

Mental manipulation I think is NTJs & ENTP. Ffs like ESTP have enough patience to even bother with that.

Where we are master manipulators: Reading other people’s delivery and reading the environment. We can see environmental politics well. We know how to get a following. We can see who is unrecognized in the environment and does not have a ‘crew’. We can see who is aligned. We know how play all of this. IRL very well. (It’s whether we have the patience to deal with the kettle while it cooks, or shoot ourselves in the foot and say fuck it).

The reason ESTP is likened to a good salesman isn’t because we’re all in sales. It’s because we can read who is having a midlife crisis or small mans complex and whether they would buy a practical vehicle for security or they need a loud statement. We know how to read this by the shoes most people wear. The way they walk. And how their family or friends interact with them. We can usually always tell who the dominant person is walking in to any settings based on body language alone. (Sometimes it’s even quiet people btw). We even recognize those most comfortable and confident are more subdued. Those people are not our ‘sales’. It’s all in the Jones’ and there’s alotta Jones’ in every subculture who don’t know their Jones. This is where ya should be worried about ESTP. Social engineering.

We aren’t going to guilt ya into a relationship or make ya feel obligated

We aren’t going to play mind games with ya

We can easily read where you are placed in a socially engineered sense and use it to any advantage we like (again if we have the patience to follow thru) while we’re meeting the goals we’re looking at.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

I'm going to go out on a limb here and state that as far as this ENTP goes, manipulating people is like a "fun toy" you play with once or twice and then get bored with. It just isn't worth the effort for me. People who can seriously spend their days spinning their webs and watching people dance to their puppet strings must have too much time on their hands. I just have too many other things I'd rather be doing besides messing with people's heads for my own advantage.


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## mia-me (Feb 5, 2021)

A dark triad ENFJ by a long shot. Peterson's an example of such because he's convinced himself that he's doing it to benefit others. A messiah complex.


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