# Tips on dealing with people of your blind-spot??



## Father of Dragons (May 7, 2012)

I've realized that I am terrible at dealing with SP-first people. For example, I work 2 part-time jobs and 3 out of my 4 managers/assistant-managers are SP-firsts. I can barely hold a conversation with them. It kind of sucks that it's so hard to find any common ground with them. I am quite comfortable around SO-firsts because I at least feel a little involved in the things that are important to them.

So, anyone have any ideas of how to make it easier? To some degree I can get something going if I ask them questions related to what I understand as Self-Preservation ("how's our budget this week?", "traffic was terrible today"), but really it is fake rapport because I am not invested at all in the subject matter...

Honestly, even tips on how to get along with SP-types in general would be appreciated!


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## meridannight (Nov 23, 2012)

i'm not SP first but i suppose getting along with them goes something like getting along with someone who shares your dominant instinct. the way i see it, it's a mutual recognition of being alike in some significant way. that's what makes it easier. you share certain common understanding and approach to life, which means you can already relate to the other without them having to explain themselves. it is the opposite with the ones who are dominant in your last instinct. you don't have this common attitude to life, so immediately you don't get one another at all. instead of having facilitated relations, you have a number of difficulties to overcome before you can relate to the other, if ever. 

instinctual variants don't base out of logic. you can't study them in order to be able to connect with them. i would think you'd need to start exercising your blind spot in order to be able to relate to them better. 

i don't know though. maybe there's another way.


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## Echoe (Apr 23, 2012)

You could try to connect to their secondary instinct (which of course you must have one of them in your own stacking per person)? I've been able to feel some amount or another of connection to some SP-lasts (SP is my first) in that way alone, or just via other mutual topics of interest. I think some of them possibly don't want to connect for some reason, maybe just not feeling inspired for it, or they don't really want relations with employees, but the former situation could change and they may open up channels which have some potential for connecting. Unfortunately you all may just plain lack much in common .


Dunno, just some thoughts.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Echoe said:


> You could try to connect to their secondary instinct (which of course you must have one of them in your own stacking per person)? I've been able to feel some amount or another of connection to some SP-lasts (SP is my first) in that way alone, or just via other mutual topics of interest. I think some of them possibly don't want to connect for some reason, maybe just not feeling inspired for it, or they don't really want relations with employees, but the former situation could change and they may open up channels which have some potential for connecting. Unfortunately you all may just plain lack much in common .
> Dunno, just some thoughts.


I've been using this tactic for about a year now. for example, when I'm talking to So/Sps at school, I talk about how everyone has useless degrees that aren't going to actually get them jobs and they're like "omg I know! :laughing: ". 

when I'm around So/Sx, I talk about, for lack of a better word, "sleepover topics" (obviously you have to work your way into this. it's not something you would talk about at work or within the first 5 minutes of meeting someone). generally their expression of Sx is a bit "cuter" than mine (I often jokingly refer to So/Sx as "The Romantic Comedy Instinct :tongue: ) while mine is a bit more obsessive and intense, but they're usually down with that. So/Sx~Darkside (So/Sx with strong Sx) and I typically hit it off pretty well because they have strong Sx, but they're still more subtle than an Sx/So (who are kind of a different beast altogether).


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## Figure (Jun 22, 2011)

Father of Dragons said:


> So, anyone have any ideas of how to make it easier? To some degree I can get something going if I ask them questions related to what I understand as Self-Preservation ("how's our budget this week?", "traffic was terrible today"), but really it is fake rapport because I am not invested at all in the subject matter...
> 
> Honestly, even tips on how to get along with SP-types in general would be appreciated!


Yeah, don't force anything you don't feel comfortable with. 

If this helps, I find that it takes a long time to get close to other Sp doms, even as an Sp dom. I could talk about Self Pres things all day to other people - food, finances, vacations, career topics, deals, living conditions, etc - as these things become a path for shared interests, but this only happens when you can share the interest mutually, as a way of connecting. It's a sense that if your self pres needs are satisfied and mine are satisfied and we're both enjoying what we are doing, then there's a realistic, stable connection - but again, that takes awhile to get to. 

Just remember that your energy level will probably be different than that of an Sp. I'm fairly sure most Sx doms see me as lacking as much "pull" as they desire, and I often see them as being overwhelming with how much energy I am to put into something. They're still great relationships and I value them - but there is always an energy disparity.


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## enneathusiast (Dec 15, 2012)

Father of Dragons said:


> Honestly, even tips on how to get along with SP-types in general would be appreciated!


Support and respect their autonomy. They don't want people intruding upon or interfering with their independence. You can take an interest in their interests but don't expect them to take an interest in yours. Also,before they let you in, you may have to prove that you won't interfere with their world or place expectations upon them. Both socials and intimates have a tendency to make those demands and expectations and they may be wary of that.


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## Coburn (Sep 3, 2010)

I'm not really sure how it could be difficult to converse with us?

Being sp first doesn't mean we can't hold conversations beyond the daily traffic/weather report. It also doesn't mean we're incapable of talking about something non self-pres related.


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## Ventricity (Mar 30, 2009)

Marlowe said:


> I'm not really sure how it could be difficult to converse with us?
> 
> Being sp first doesn't mean we can't hold conversations beyond the daily traffic/weather report. It also doesn't mean we're incapable of talking about something non self-pres related.


it's hard for me because when i talk to my colleague about traffic or if there were many people in the shop today, the part i like to speak about is what those facts mean. i like to speculate, they don't. i find it hard to get passed the initial small talk with them. the most i get is them relating some fact to a story that happened to them. of course, it's also my social retardation at play. it's not all their fault.


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## Coburn (Sep 3, 2010)

Ventricity said:


> it's hard for me because when i talk to my colleague about traffic or if there were many people in the shop today, the part i like to speak about is what those facts mean. i like to speculate, they don't. i find it hard to get passed the initial small talk with them. the most i get is them relating some fact to a story that happened to them. of course, it's also my social retardation at play. it's not all their fault.


It sounds less like an instinct issue and more like they aren't up for conversation. If you're pulling teeth to talk with them, you're probably better off giving up and just keeping things short. You can't really have conversations with people who aren't interested in taking part.


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## Father of Dragons (May 7, 2012)

Echoe said:


> I think some of them possibly don't want to connect for some reason, maybe just not feeling inspired for it, or they don't really want relations with employees, but the former situation could change and they may open up channels which have some potential for connecting. Unfortunately you all may just plain lack much in common .


I thought that at first, to be honest. However, it weirds me out that they seem to open up more to other people who are not warm at all. It might be that they find direct interest smothering, or too... direct? I actually seem to have the most success when I pretend to not care about them, in a sense playing "hard-to-get". It seems counter-intuitive to me, but I guess some people prefer a cooler interpersonal temperature...



Figure said:


> Just remember that your energy level will probably be different than that of an Sp. I'm fairly sure most Sx doms see me as lacking as much "pull" as they desire, and I often see them as being overwhelming with how much energy I am to put into something. They're still great relationships and I value them - but there is always an energy disparity.


That is interesting, I can see that very much. Sometimes, in my more ignorant moments, I almost get offended by people who aren't open to me. I guess I have this irrational tendency to assume other people are as interested in connecting as I am. But, some people are more concerned about taking care of themselves... something I could probably learn from, as I never feel as I am on as stable ground as SP types.



Marlowe said:


> I'm not really sure how it could be difficult to converse with us?
> 
> Being sp first doesn't mean we can't hold conversations beyond the daily traffic/weather report. It also doesn't mean we're incapable of talking about something non self-pres related.


I don't know, perhaps it is that I have different expectations for conversations than most of the people I've met who I would guess are SP-first. I almost universally hit it off with other SX-doms if I get the chance to talk to them, and although SO-doms are a bit more of a challenge, it feels pretty natural. With other SX people I don't really need to think about it, it's easy to build a rapport. 

When I talk to many SP people I really have to almost strategize to make any ground with them. And I notice that there is a tad bit of confusion on their part as well. When I get to know them, it is not super different to maintain a relationship with them than with anybody else. My sister and one of my close friends are both likely SP-first and we get on well. It's just that... I would definitely say that it is more of a challenge for me to connect with SP people off the get-go than with people of the other sub-types.


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## Coburn (Sep 3, 2010)

@Father of Dragons



> However, it weirds me out that they seem to open up more to other people who are not warm at all.


Perhaps this is a sign of the gain-loss effect in action (sometimes called the "law of infidelity"):

"The 'law of infidelity,' derived from E. Aronson's (1969) gain-loss theory of attraction, predicts that when 2 evaluators compete for the affections of an evaluatee, the one whose evaluations begin negatively but then become positive (a gain evaluator) will be liked more than a consistently positive evaluator."

"In a study performed by Gerald Clore from the University of Illinois, Clore performed an experiment in which he showed 338 people four videos of two people interacting. The videos were as follows:

Video 1: Person A is pleasant to person B.
Video 2: Person A is initially pleasant to person B, but becomes more standoffish as the conversation continues.
Video 3: Person A is initially unpleasant to Person B, but mellows as the conversation continues.
Video 4: Person A acts like an enormous, raging turd for the entirety of the conversation.

When polled on which behavior was the most appealing, the majority of subjects chose video number three. Essentially, when someone is consistently unpleasant towards you, it establishes a behavioral baseline that colors your expectations. When that person becomes more pleasant, even if it's by a tiny amount, you interpret that as progress, which is psychologically stimulating."


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## Spades (Aug 31, 2011)

Um. Are you sure your problem isn't in the employee-manager relationship as opposed to the fact they are possibly Sp-dom? I like to think people have a wider array of conversational ability than topics related to their instinct.


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## Coburn (Sep 3, 2010)

Spades said:


> Um. Are you sure your problem isn't in the employee-manager relationship as opposed to the fact they are possibly Sp-dom? I like to think people have a wider array of conversational ability than topics related to their instinct.


There are only three things an sp-dom can discuss: drapes, the Armageddon bunker they've built in their basement, and what's for dinner.


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## Spades (Aug 31, 2011)

Marlowe said:


> There are only three things an sp-dom can discuss: drapes, the Armageddon bunker they've built in their basement, and what's for dinner.


Omg is it sad that all three of those topics excited me greatly :blushed:


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## d e c a d e n t (Apr 21, 2013)

Spades said:


> Omg is it sad that all three of those topics excited me greatly :blushed:


Idk, I would say food at least is generally an exciting topic.


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## Cantarella (Sep 3, 2010)

Father of Dragons said:


> I've realized that I am terrible at dealing with SP-first people. For example, I work 2 part-time jobs and 3 out of my 4 managers/assistant-managers are SP-firsts. I can barely hold a conversation with them. It kind of sucks that it's so hard to find any common ground with them. I am quite comfortable around SO-firsts because I at least feel a little involved in the things that are important to them.
> 
> So, anyone have any ideas of how to make it easier? To some degree I can get something going if I ask them questions related to what I understand as Self-Preservation ("how's our budget this week?", "traffic was terrible today"), but really it is fake rapport because I am not invested at all in the subject matter...
> 
> Honestly, even tips on how to get along with SP-types in general would be appreciated!


I have exactly the same problem with sp-firsts. Wish I had some advice. It took me this long to realize that someone being sp-first is usually the biggest barrier in my relationship with them. I just try to save everyone some frustration by avoiding them as much as possible, lol.


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## Father of Dragons (May 7, 2012)

Spades said:


> Um. Are you sure your problem isn't in the employee-manager relationship as opposed to the fact they are possibly Sp-dom? I like to think people have a wider array of conversational ability than topics related to their instinct.


There could definitely be a bit of that with them. The thing is though I do find it challenging with my SP co-workers as well. I still chit-chat, but it's hard to build rapport.

I do regret mentioning conversation topics in my OP because most people talk about a variety of things. We are all people, it turns out. The thing I've noticed though is that there definitely is a distinct difference in the emphasis and framing of the conversation topic. The 'why', the reason we talk about the subject. 

SP-doms seem more interested in the direct implications of the conversation topic whereas I am focused on making the conversation more about stimulating the participants. If I'm talking about budget it is a means to an end - connecting with the other person and getting some kind of excitement out of it. A SP person seems generally more concerned about the implications of the budget: are we making our goals, are our sales slipping, will our pay-roll be cut, etc. It feels like some difficult diplomacy to satisfy both of us in the conversation... it seems disadvantageous to building a relationship in a sense.


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## Kabosu (Mar 31, 2012)

I'm generally under the impression that while I don't easily open up to some people easily that if I can talk to a person about topics I'm interested in that I can hold a conversation.
I don't like getting right into deep and close things and that would also depend on environmental settings.


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## Spades (Aug 31, 2011)

Father of Dragons said:


> There could definitely be a bit of that with them. The thing is though I do find it challenging with my SP co-workers as well. I still chit-chat, but it's hard to build rapport.
> 
> I do regret mentioning conversation topics in my OP because most people talk about a variety of things. We are all people, it turns out. The thing I've noticed though is that there definitely is a distinct difference in the emphasis and framing of the conversation topic. The 'why', the reason we talk about the subject.
> 
> SP-doms seem more interested in the direct implications of the conversation topic whereas I am focused on making the conversation more about stimulating the participants. If I'm talking about budget it is a means to an end - connecting with the other person and getting some kind of excitement out of it. A SP person seems generally more concerned about the implications of the budget: are we making our goals, are our sales slipping, will our pay-roll be cut, etc. It feels like some difficult diplomacy to satisfy both of us in the conversation... it seems disadvantageous to building a relationship in a sense.


Again, this *could* be the fact they are coworkers, but you *may* be onto something. Have you found this to be true with close Sp-first friends? Personally, I *never* bond with my coworkers. There's just something about our interaction being "forced" due to proximity instead of being together willingly that bugs me. Perhaps it's more being So-last than being Sp-first for me.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

@Father of Dragons
Sp doms typically aren't that hard to get along with. perhaps, as an Sx/So, you're simply used to more social reciprocation than they typically give. as long as you give them physical and emotional space and don't get in their way, all you have to do is find a topic of mutual interest and you should be good to go.



> SP-doms seem more interested in the direct implications of the conversation topic whereas I am focused on making the conversation more about stimulating the participants. If I'm talking about budget it is a means to an end - connecting with the other person and getting some kind of excitement out of it. A SP person seems generally more concerned about the implications of the budget: are we making our goals, are our sales slipping, will our pay-roll be cut, etc. It feels like some difficult diplomacy to satisfy both of us in the conversation... it seems disadvantageous to building a relationship in a sense.


this has a bit of a xxTJ slant, but it's pretty much true (at least in my experience). Sp doms are typically very "what's the point?" in their interactions and activities, so perhaps work isn't the best time to chat them up?


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