# Parent Advice. Why is she mad?



## kismetie (Oct 17, 2013)

HI,

I'm in need of some advice on my ESFJ mother.

It seems I have done something to make her upset and now she is giving me the cold shoulder a little bit but she won't confront me and tell me what's on her mind. She's always been like this, so you'd think I'd know what to do by now after 21 years but I'm still at a lost. I'm an INFP and honestly it really makes me upset when my mother gets like this. I mean she is the kind of person who can hold grudges over any and everything and _forever! _While, she's still being a piss poor sport about something that happened ages ago with someone she no longer likes, they are completely obvious to it and going on about their lives and my mom's over here making herself miserable with hate. I wish I could say I was so unaffected by her when she gets like this, but then again I live with her so . . . that's another story.

My mom and me used to butt heads a lot when I was in junior high and high school -- it was literally a disagreement over every little single thing (we're polar opposites on the zodiac sign and both fixed signs so we can both be super stubborn! I'm a taurus and she's a scorpio). But after my sophomore year in college we have since had a nice relationship where we get along. But something I must have did two days ago has set her off in her ways again. When I ask her what's wrong she says nothing but it clearly is something. She doesn't try and engage in talking to me and if I didn't make the effort we probably would have not spoken at all in these past two days. I don't know what to do when she gets like this. But it really gets to me ):

Help?


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## StElmosDream (May 26, 2012)

@kismetie

Something I often notice with my ESFJ Mother is how she can be prone to bottling up issues (becoming resentments then contentions) then expressing annoyance and anger over unrelated issues, all the while behaving as if others should 'just understand'. Resulting in emotional volatility and cold silent treatments, then unloading when in reality these Action (crashing doors), Behaviour (what led up to final expression), Causes (true cause i.e. stress about seeing a doctor) are things barely discussed requiring a game of 'connect the dots' from speaking with others questioning any patterns or spoken concerns in a holistic way.

Very tiring work, often best to just leave them alone for up to a week until she feels ready to open up herself, otherwise you run the risk of playing samaritan, listener, therapist and investigator all rolled into one, when as you note you have your own life to live.


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## ElectricHead (Jun 3, 2011)

I have an ESFJ mother and I know exactly what you all mean. As far as help goes, I can only offer you what works for me. 
Fe users, as altruistic as they are or can seem, often expect reciprocation, much like many of us Fi users do toward certain things.
This is maybe 90% of why my mom gets passive aggressive, something wasn't reciprocated or she felt disrespected in some way. Or no one shows appreciation or she felt like she was taken advantage of. Confronting my mom about it when such things occur is mostly futile. She'll insist nothing is wrong, yet we know that's a lie. Here is what I do:

Just catch her when she's least expecting it, place my hands on her shoulders, look her square in the face and tell her how much she means to me and the whole family, and that we appreciate everything she does. I tell her I love her, hug her, and assure her that I'd be glad to help out with anything she needs me for, and if there is something I did wrong, than I'm sorry. Then I'll go do the dishes or something.

This seems t work at getting her to open up. Maybe it could for you too. If not, at least you initiated and opened a door for her to step in and tell you when she's ready. This will soften her up and she won't angrily speed clean the house like a demon possessed by an SJ person.


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## kismetie (Oct 17, 2013)

StElmosDream said:


> @kismetie
> 
> Something I often notice with my ESFJ Mother is how she can be prone to bottling up issues (becoming resentments then contentions) then expressing annoyance and anger over unrelated issues, all the while behaving as if others should 'just understand'. Resulting in emotional volatility and cold silent treatments, then unloading when in reality these Action (crashing doors), Behaviour (what led up to final expression), Causes (true cause i.e. stress about seeing a doctor) are things barely discussed requiring a game of 'connect the dots' from speaking with others questioning any patterns or spoken concerns in a holistic way.


This sounds exactly like my mother. The only problem is leaving her be for a week doesn't seem to do much, if that. Sometimes it even makes things worst because it gives her more time to make up her own conclusions. I once tried to give my mom her space needed and we ended up not speaking for the duration of two in a half months. She didn't even speak to me on my birthday and when I finally confronted her about it she claimed I had been the one to start ignoring her first and giving her the cold shoulder and I had hurt her and she was waiting for an apology. My mom can be very emotionally manipulative when she wants to be. I'm not sure if she does this because she truly believes she's been done wrong or has misread something someone has done or it it is because she knows she can get away with doing this (I feel it is a little bit of both).

This really used to bother me back when I was in high school because I didn't understand what I had did that was so wrong that she would get like this. I felt like I wasn't allowed to get upset myself because I didn't have the right. Even when she had initially hurt me first she would somehow managed to turn it all around on me. It was a hard time for me and I all together emotionally withdrew from her to protect myself.

Once I got to college and it was still going on I talked to it with the on campus therapist and she helped me to understand it wasn't my fault and it was just my mom's way of dealing with things.



rejectedreality said:


> Fe users, as altruistic as they are or can seem, often expect reciprocation, much like many of us Fi users do toward certain things.
> This is maybe 90% of why my mom gets passive aggressive, something wasn't reciprocated or she felt disrespected in some way. Or no one shows appreciation or she felt like she was taken advantage of. Confronting my mom about it when such things occur is mostly futile. She'll insist nothing is wrong, yet we know that's a lie. Here is what I do:
> 
> Just catch her when she's least expecting it, place my hands on her shoulders, look her square in the face and tell her how much she means to me and the whole family, and that we appreciate everything she does. I tell her I love her, hug her, and assure her that I'd be glad to help out with anything she needs me for, and if there is something I did wrong, than I'm sorry. Then I'll go do the dishes or something.
> ...


I've done things like this too in the past to try an insure my mom that whatever it is bothering her I didn't mean to do and that I love her. But after so much power play and mental mind games with her I have to admit it is not easy for me to just openly apologize to her for whatever it is I have done and then try and gain "brownie points" from her to soften her up. That was literally all I ever did in high school. Every time we've got to this point in the past I'm always the one putting in the effort to try and make things right and apologizing even if I don't know what for, but god forbid the tables be turned and have her have to apologize or let me feel wronged for once. It's always this guilt trip with her and I just feel like every time I go and make amends first, I'm reinforcing her behavior to act like this again because she knows she can get away with it.


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## StElmosDream (May 26, 2012)

kismetie said:


> This sounds exactly like my mother. The only problem is leaving her be for a week doesn't seem to do much, if that. Sometimes it even makes things worst because it gives her more time to make up her own conclusions. I once tried to give my mom her space needed and we ended up not speaking for the duration of two in a half months. She didn't even speak to me on my birthday and when I finally confronted her about it she claimed I had been the one to start ignoring her first and giving her the cold shoulder and I had hurt her and she was waiting for an apology. My mom can be very emotionally manipulative when she wants to be. I'm not sure if she does this because she truly believes she's been done wrong or has misread something someone has done or it it is because she knows she can get away with doing this (I feel it is a little bit of both).


As difficult as it sounds to know, emotional manipulation can often be a sign of insecurity and emotional immaturity... assuming this is the case your Mother was already like this before you were born, so changing a pattern is unlikely. 

Often such manipulation can also stem from a fear of being wrong, lower self awareness and perceiving that others 'owe' respect or entitlement to behave how you wish... honestly I just emotionally distance when my Mother tries subjugating or influencing me in a negative way, failing that I either confront her very directly letting her know being an adult does not mean you can control others to suit your needs and actually listing why her behaviour is not appropriate (yes we do experience parent-child role reversals at time however being assertive and setting true boundaries yourself, well spoken lines in the sand is a must when dealing with unhealthy ESFJ, if only for your sanity).

*Notes Getting and Protecting Behaviours explained further in Real Love, Greg Baer's book where people only use these tactics fearing rejection, being unloved, being seen as imperfect and if they lack love in themselves seeking conditional loving acceptance in others alone*


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## kismetie (Oct 17, 2013)

StElmosDream said:


> As difficult as it sounds to know, emotional manipulation can often be a sign of insecurity and emotional immaturity... assuming this is the case your Mother was already like this before you were born, so changing a pattern is unlikely.
> 
> Often such manipulation can also stem from a fear of being wrong, lower self awareness and perceiving that others 'owe' respect or entitlement to behave how you wish... honestly I just emotionally distance when my Mother tries subjugating or influencing me in a negative way, failing that I either confront her very directly letting her know being an adult does not mean you can control others to suit your needs and actually listing why her behaviour is not appropriate (yes we do experience parent-child role reversals at time however being assertive and setting true boundaries yourself, well spoken lines in the sand is a must when dealing with unhealthy ESFJ, if only for your sanity).
> 
> *Notes Getting and Protecting Behaviours explained further in Real Love, Greg Baer's book where people only use these tactics fearing rejection, being unloved, being seen as imperfect and if they lack love in themselves seeking conditional loving acceptance in others alone*


This is true. My aunt says my mom has always been one to hold grudges and want apologies but she rarely apologizes herself. My mom is the youngest out of five, so she is very used to getting her way. My mom is pretty big on feelings of entitlement and feeling like others owe her some kind of respect or a certain attitude. 

I don't ever want to get to where we were in high school again so I try not to distance myself too much from her. I try and still engage in conversations with her and smile and do small things I would usually do if things were normal because if I don't I might slip into old ways. 

I've never really actually sat her down and tried to explain to her the errors in her ways of doing things because her backlash is seriously not something I can handle. I am super sensitive when it comes to how my mom reacts/treats me even when I can see that something is wrong. I just can't seem to help myself. I am emotionally dependent on her it seems.


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## StElmosDream (May 26, 2012)

kismetie said:


> I've never really actually sat her down and tried to explain to her the errors in her ways of doing things because her backlash is seriously not something I can handle. I am super sensitive when it comes to how my mom reacts/treats me even when I can see that something is wrong. I just can't seem to help myself. I am emotionally dependent on her it seems.


Difficult. I have had to have maybe 4 super sit downs with my Mother, knowing each time that I'd be emotionally tired for 1-3 days afterwards (the last fatigue actually lasted a week with harsh words spoken, yet also made the most headroom for change), however your mother also needs to know you will reach a point where you finally decide to cut yourself off from her only seeing her 4 times a year at best if she continues such a path of self destruction in your direction.

Hence why I noted such a book (Real Love, Greg Baer) for her and actually suggest writing down your thoughts and feelings in a letter of some variety when the fear of loss does often override one's own sense of 'personal needs' with unhealthy ESFJ types...ESFJ mothers often do not like stepping out of rigid thinking patterns until faced with some degree of accountability, consequentialism and stone cold reminders that continuing to mistreat your emotionally will only serve to push you away for longer...


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## kismetie (Oct 17, 2013)

StElmosDream said:


> Hence why I noted such a book (Real Love, Greg Baer) for her and actually suggest writing down your thoughts and feelings in a letter of some variety when the fear of loss does often override one's own sense of 'personal needs' with unhealthy ESFJ types...ESFJ mothers often do not like stepping out of rigid thinking patterns until faced with some degree of accountability, consequentialism and stone cold reminders that continuing to mistreat your emotionally will only serve to push you away for longer...


I've been suggested to write her a letter before. I'll have to check this book out next time I'm out at Barnes & Nobles. I'm hoping this will just blow over but ultimately this is something that needs to be addressed eventually. Thank you for taking the time out to reply to my post


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## StElmosDream (May 26, 2012)

kismetie said:


> I've been suggested to write her a letter before. I'll have to check this book out next time I'm out at Barnes & Nobles. I'm hoping this will just blow over but ultimately this is something that needs to be addressed eventually. Thank you for taking the time out to reply to my post


*small supportive hug of knowing left with true sincerity felt* 

(Much of my early teen years were as you note, although my Mother has always been a huff and puff arguer until people agree.)


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## EmileeArsenic (Jun 8, 2012)

Ask her flat out "why are you upset with me?" And then "what can I do to fix it?" If she doesn't want to work it out, go "fine, then. I tried, you know where to find me when you're interested in working this out" and then walk away. Ball's in her court and she can't say you're being unreasonable.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

The ol passive-aggressive cold shouldering. The only solution I have found is to act like you don't notice, and act like it doesn't affect you. Most people do it to destabilize you because they aren't big enough to just confront you and get it out in the open. They see you squirm and know its working.. don't let it emotionally assault you. I detach from people who pull this routine on me because I find them highly manipulative.


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## kismetie (Oct 17, 2013)

Promethea said:


> The ol passive-aggressive cold shouldering. The only solution I have found is to act like you don't notice, and act like it doesn't affect you. Most people do it to destabilize you because they aren't big enough to just confront you and get it out in the open. They see you squirm and know its working.. don't let it emotionally assault you. I detach from people who pull this routine on me because I find them highly manipulative.


I usually either cut off from people who are passive-aggressive or I confront them up straight. But neither of these choices seem to work when it comes to my mom. I still live at home so really I can't properly cut ties from her since I literally see her everyday and confronting just seems to make her more defensive no matter what approach I tend to use.

It's been a few days now and I guess you can say she's being somewhat cordial but there is this tension in the air between us. I just go along with it but really it's all just some charade.


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## kismetie (Oct 17, 2013)

EmileeArsenic said:


> Ask her flat out "why are you upset with me?" And then "what can I do to fix it?" If she doesn't want to work it out, go "fine, then. I tried, you know where to find me when you're interested in working this out" and then walk away. Ball's in her court and she can't say you're being unreasonable.


I thought this was a really good one. The last time I did this was around the time we hadn't really spoken to each other for 2 months after my birthday. I asked her what was wrong and that she had been ignoring me for 2 months know and whatever it was I was sorry. I even told her it had taken me so long to reach out to her again because when I had tried earlier on she had just claimed nothing was wrong and proceeded to give me the cold shoulder. 

I didn't however tell her "Fine, I tried and you know where to find me when you are ready to work things out." Although I know it would not sit well with her. Instead of going to the root of the original problem she'd get offensive that I would even talk to her like that. Because the few times I have caught her off guard at her own games instead of just accepting that she was wrong or not in the right she just out lashes more. 

I feel like I'm fighting a losing battle here. No matter which way I seem to approach her it always blows up in my face.


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## kismetie (Oct 17, 2013)

Reading all of the comments and suggestions really means a lot to me. Thank you guys for taking the time out to reply. After reading all of these it seems there is no easy way of doing this and I am just going to have to stick it out when a conflict does arise, because it most definitely will once I confront my mom again.


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## StElmosDream (May 26, 2012)

kismetie said:


> Reading all of the comments and suggestions really means a lot to me. Thank you guys for taking the time out to reply. After reading all of these it seems there is no easy way of doing this and I am just going to have to stick it out when a conflict does arise, because it most definitely will once I confront my mom again.


I know from experience that if such passive-aggressive ways persist into the holidays then fireworks occur when concerns like money, family time, and even bills come into play when Christmas has a way of highlighting the worst in people as a 'blowing off steam holiday.' 
I honestly wish I had better news to tell you, although it is quite possible that an issue is already being dealt with by your mother yet she does not wish to discuss it or is seeking a free offloading point (elder relatives in my experience seem better at picking apart bs from true issues, then again intermediaries seeking is often a difficult choice to make when some help and some worsen things).


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## EmileeArsenic (Jun 8, 2012)

kismetie said:


> I thought this was a really good one. The last time I did this was around the time we hadn't really spoken to each other for 2 months after my birthday. I asked her what was wrong and that she had been ignoring me for 2 months know and whatever it was I was sorry. I even told her it had taken me so long to reach out to her again because when I had tried earlier on she had just claimed nothing was wrong and proceeded to give me the cold shoulder.
> 
> I didn't however tell her "Fine, I tried and you know where to find me when you are ready to work things out." Although I know it would not sit well with her. Instead of going to the root of the original problem she'd get offensive that I would even talk to her like that. Because the few times I have caught her off guard at her own games instead of just accepting that she was wrong or not in the right she just out lashes more.
> 
> I feel like I'm fighting a losing battle here. No matter which way I seem to approach her it always blows up in my face.


Do you live with her? If she's not financially supporting you, then it might be wise to have a sit down with her and tell her that you're an adult and that your life and choices aren't always going to please her, but you'd like to have a good relationship with her, but she makes it difficult when you feel she's not willing to cooperate with you. It's a two way street, and she needs to uphold her side. Some parents have difficulty accepting that their children aren't carbon copies of them and that they will not always agree, but it's their life, and it's up to them to view you as another person, but more on a friends level than parent / child. Good luck *hugs*


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## birdsintrees (Aug 20, 2012)

My mother is an ESFJ as well. In my experience no ESFJ can bottle things up too long and allow for disharmony continue forever. My, slightly sadistic perhaps, answer to these situations was and still is: If you say nothing's wrong I will take that as the truth and act accordingly. If she then continues to show odd passive agressive behavior I'll call her out on it as long as it takes for her to own up to what's wrong. We then talk about it, 99% of the times work towards agreeing to disagree and then move on with life. 

She appears to have a harder time with moving and really putting the issue to rest than I do and from my experience the only way to deal with this is plain ignorance of the 'subtle' cues that she's still upset. The best way to undermine passive agression is to simply never acknowledge it forcing people to either let go of whatever minor issue they might have or own up to it in a more straightforward manner.


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## kismetie (Oct 17, 2013)

EmileeArsenic said:


> Do you live with her? If she's not financially supporting you, then it might be wise to have a sit down with her and tell her that you're an adult and that your life and choices aren't always going to please her, but you'd like to have a good relationship with her, but she makes it difficult when you feel she's not willing to cooperate with you. It's a two way street, and she needs to uphold her side. Some parents have difficulty accepting that their children aren't carbon copies of them and that they will not always agree, but it's their life, and it's up to them to view you as another person, but more on a friends level than parent / child. Good luck *hugs*


yes, i still live at home.

thank you for the advice


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## FakeLefty (Aug 19, 2013)

Take my advice with a grain of salt, because I tend to be very blunt with emotions. But if I were in your shoes I would take matters into my own hands and not just ask what's wrong, but demand to know what's wrong. Tell her that whatever you did wrong you're committed to fixing the issue and that you need her to tell you what's wrong first. Be the catalyst of the discussion. Show some power.


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