# Submissive men



## jack london (Aug 27, 2010)

My friend IRL married a submissive man and now she is miserable. She says that submissive men have always been drawn to her and they like that she takes charge. But recently he has become to submissive and he relies on her too much.

My question for Dominate straight women is...

*Has this happened to you? *

*Are you okay with this?  *

*Was there something you did to make the man become less submissive? * 

*Would you consider changing roles?*


I seriously need some advice here because she is driving me crazy complaining about her husband. I know, I know I told her to quit complaining to me about her relationship and to talk to him instead.


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## Fizz (Nov 13, 2010)

*Has this happened to you?*
I don't have a slew of men dependent upon me but I've had -some- that look to me to take charge. Never in a relationship sense.

*Are you okay with this?*
While it's not always socially acceptable for males to be submissive to females (yay sexism), it does happen. There are times when I'm fine being the stronger person. But that doesn't mean I want to be holding this person up so they don't collapse into a miserable pile of emotions.

*Was there something you did to make the man become less submissive?*
I don't make or train men to do anything...well, to be on topic, I don't teach them to be assertive.

*Would you consider changing roles?*
I have a typically male associated personality type, that doesn't mean that I'm always going to be drinking beer, talking about football, and farting. I like a balance. I don't always want to be in charge, but I do enjoy having another person take lead, despite their biological sex or gender.


EDIT: 
"My question for Dominate straight women is..."

Straight, well then.


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## snail (Oct 13, 2008)

Submissive men are so hot. ...but unfortunately they tend to want dominant women. :-(


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## AlexOrgasmic (Feb 6, 2011)

Oh, straight? I'm not straight, but I'm bi, so I'll answer anyway.

*Has this happened to you?*
Of course. I draw submissive men like flies to honey.

*Are you okay with this?*
Definitely. While I'm only attracted to a few of them, the others are fine to have around. They do what I tell them and give me more power. A girl can never have too many admirers.

*Was there something you did to make the man become less submissive?*
Why would I want to do that? If they're annoying, I just tell them to go away, and if that only makes them like me more, I avoid them.

*Would you consider changing roles?*
In a relationship? Maybe for a few minutes, but I doubt it. The only person dominant enough to make me submissive would be myself, and that would have to involve time travel and one of the two Alex's being tired/vulnerable at the time. In general? No. To become submissive would be a loss of one of the biggest parts of my personality. I am *always* in control.


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## sparkles (Mar 2, 2011)

jack london said:


> My friend IRL married a submissive man and now she is miserable. She says that submissive men have always been drawn to her and they like that she takes charge. But recently he has become to submissive and he relies on her too much.
> 
> My question for Dominate straight women is...
> 
> ...


 Um, I am a strong woman, and become dominant around more passive men, but I don't want to be dominant in my relationships. So I get where your friend is coming from. Had het relationships but not completely straight.

Wait, are you talking bdsm D/s or just aggressive/passive style in relationships with decisions?

1. Yes, a couple of times, in romantic relationships. Don't like it. 

2. Yuck, no. I don't want to feel stronger than my partner and don't want him giving his power to me. I want him to be in charge, or to share the responsibility of decisions equally. I may want him to make me fight a little before I submit to him but I don't want him to submit to me.

3. I tried. There is a difference between passive and submissive, and I'm not sure which you're talking about here. A passive man is probably just being a little lazy, or hasn't had to own up to more of his personal power. I prefer a more assertive partner, whether we're talking about D/s or passivity/assertiveness. Reading Deida might help! (The Way of the Superior Man, to be precise.)

I have a friend who got into a relationship where her partner was more passive, and she wanted him to take charge more, so she made him take on a D/s arrangement where he was the Dom. He had to order her around. They negotiated boundaries. He didn't like it at first but last I heard it was working well. So your friend could try telling her hubby she wants to swap roles, and for the next month, he has to be in charge and make decisions and tell her what to do (unless she wants certain stipulations).

I definitely suggest she tell him directly that the current dynamic isn't working for her and ask him to work with her for an arrangement they will both appreciate. He needs to know how resentful she's getting about it. It may hurt his ego but he needs to know. And if this is an aspect of his personality he's happy with, then they need the incompatibility to be out in the open so they can figure out what they want to do about it.

It is soooooooo unfair of women to get irked with their partners' behavior, when they have not directly conveyed to that partner that it is a problem for them. I've been guilty of this myself, but changed it, because I think it's unfair to expect someone to read your mind. 

(Kind of ironic, too, if she is more Dominant, but has not had the guts to speak up about this with him.)

4. Sorta, at least experimentally. I have been the more dominant partner, but I know I don't like it, so I can't say I'd be eager to swap unless it was strictly to expand in the bedroom. I end up walking all over submissive men, and that's no fun for me at all.

Welp, I'm not sure I answered the questions based on the way you intended with the words you used here (submissive and dominant). Whether it is purely a bdsm thing, or a relationship dynamic thing, or what.


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## jack london (Aug 27, 2010)

@sparkles

This couple is a 1950's booooorrringg couple and super religious which makes it even more strange because its not following the traditional man/woman roles. So I'm pretty sure she is talking about *aggressive/passive style in relationships with decisions* and not BDSM. 

Great responses. This is something that I can really suggest to her as this is all she wants to talk about with me. 

I'm familiar and comfortable with Deida but I'm not sure this fits in with this couple. At least not at this stage as the guy is as close to a wimp as can be described. Baby steps are needed here. 

She speaks to him (if you can call it that). I can only imagine her barking orders at him to be more manly. Not sure that would help.


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## VroomVroom (Jan 24, 2010)

*Has this happened to you? *

Yes. Submissive men are frequently attracted to me.

*Are you okay with this? *

It doesn't bother me but I don't date submissive men. 

*Was there something you did to make the man become less submissive? * 

No. I tend to accept people for how they are and a submissive or dominant personality is rarely changed. 

It sounds as if his submissiveness has been acceptable for her until recently. Now he is relying on her too much. Because your post was vague about how he relies on her I would advise her to either have a frank discussion about this issue with him or simply stop "helping" him out in those areas she is taking control of. Let him sink or swim.

*Would you consider changing roles?*

I like an equal partnership where their strengths counter mine. No one is in charge or control of the other. Yet we also know when to let the other lead with their strengths.


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## sparkles (Mar 2, 2011)

jack london said:


> @sparkles
> 
> This couple is a 1950's booooorrringg couple and super religious which makes it even more strange because its not following the traditional man/woman roles. So I'm pretty sure she is talking about *aggressive/passive style in relationships with decisions* and not BDSM.
> 
> ...


 Thanks for clarifying. 

And yes, if he is more like the Sensitive New Age Guy (teehee) then barking at him to man up won't help her cause.

I would instead suggest she apply Non-Violent Communication to address this, or do as VroomVroom suggested and simply quietly bow out of those areas she's been supporting him in.

Going with NVC can provide structure to make it a less reactive situation, but if it is irking her this much to complain all the time, then she might need to find some way to get out a big burst of that emotion (away from her husband I mean) shortly before she attempts NVC or it may not end well (as in she may not have the restraint to stick to the model).

Here's a great handy guide to the model's structure: The Four-Part Nonviolent Communication Process

I'm suggesting NVC because he will probably respond better to the gentleness. 

And well, I also know, sometimes in a dynamic like this... the woman's strength, and her failure to assert her preferences, causes a lot of resentment to build up, and it can leak out in emasculating ways. Doesn't help one's cause to do that. Learning to apply NVC instead to these issues can slowly build a stronger foundation.

Won't necessarily make him instantly into an Alpha dog, but if she's that fed up, then how effective is the relationship going to be? She may also need some gentle reminding that it will require work from HER as well, to address this. She cannot expect it all to happen on his end.


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## Noble4 (Feb 1, 2011)

I just wanna say that I'll do either way. Just pointing it out. Please continue.


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

I really don't know because I have a tendency to build my partners up so I would probably miss it if they were once passive. 

And outside of those with just a healthy preference for a more assertive male, I think there are other women who will complain about a passive man because they themselves are lazy or don't want to take responsibility for being the aggressor or even the "kinkier" one. 

Maybe advise your woman friend to read Herb Golberg's books. Goldberg is a male advocate who suggests that the decline in relationships and even the early feminist movement is due to women continually forcing the man into traditional roles. Actually, they continually reinforce _each other_ into traditional roles (actor/reactor).


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## devoid (Jan 3, 2011)

Has this happened to you? Yes

Are you okay with this? No

Was there something you did to make the man become less submissive? 
There was nothing I could do really. He had issues and I could not fill his twisted needs.

Would you consider changing roles?
My relationships are not based on power roles. I can't stand either person being completely dominant, even just in sex. I prefer to be submissive in sex the majority of the time, but I believe there has to be a good balance in which both people are happy and comfortable. The previous relationship in which I was forced into a dominating role was extremely unhealthy, especially for me since I was being asked to do things to him that I was not at all comfortable with. Perhaps if it had been a healthier aesthetic I could have been happier with it, but I still don't enjoy dominating people.


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## curious0610 (Jun 27, 2010)

*Has this happened to you? *
No, it's usually the other way around for me. I've noticed that men (even those with more feminine/passive characteristics) often tend to become more resolute, confident and strong-willed around me. 

*Are you okay with this? *
With what I described above? yes

I don't think the last two questions are applicable, since it's the other way around for me, but.... is there maybe a way your friend acts that might cause men to be more submissive or passive around her? Does she maybe boss them around or demand things to be done?


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## Neon Knight (Aug 11, 2010)

jack london said:


> My friend IRL married a submissive man and now she is miserable. She says that submissive men have always been drawn to her and they like that she takes charge. But recently he has become to submissive and he relies on her too much.
> 
> My question for Dominate straight women is...
> 
> *Has this happened to you? *


Yes, more than I care to have had. I'm not exactly the dependable sort 



jack london said:


> *Are you okay with this? *


No lol



jack london said:


> *Was there something you did to make the man become less submissive? *


If I knew what to do I'd have done it ages ago :crying:



jack london said:


> *Would you consider changing roles?*


Yes, I believe in 50-50 for everything. I don't mind being dominant I'd rather switch once in a while, be thrown down and all that good stuff. :>



jack london said:


> I seriously need some advice here because she is driving me crazy complaining about her husband. I know, I know I told her to quit complaining to me about her relationship and to talk to him instead.


Well she should have known what he was like before marrying him. If there are communication issues that could be a problem unless highlighted to at least one of them.


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## Zster (Mar 7, 2011)

Has this happened to you? Yes, I either draw them or the majority of modern males ARE submissive.

Are you okay with this? NO!!!!!!! I prefer an equal partner or slightly stronger / more dominant than myself.

Was there something you did to make the man become less submissive? Like what? I tried empowering or urging them to take some control, but NO LUCK with it. No amount of support/building made any diff.

Would you consider changing roles? No - I am a strong independent type and value strength in others. A submissive male simply wont be attractive to me.


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## jack london (Aug 27, 2010)

curious0610 said:


> *Has this happened to you? *
> No, it's usually the other way around for me. I've noticed that men (even those with more feminine/passive characteristics) often tend to become more resolute, confident and strong-willed around me.
> 
> *Are you okay with this? *
> ...



@curious0610
Oh yes, she is a feisty red-head. I feel sorry for her husband actually.


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## sparkles (Mar 2, 2011)

@curious0610 I am intrigued. I would love to hear your ideas for what you think it might be about you that leads to men becoming more resolute around you.


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## goodgracesbadinfluence (Feb 28, 2011)

*Has this happened to you?*
Yes. I don't tend to like super dominant men. 

*Are you okay with this?*
Usually I am. I don't like someone who is so submissive he is dependent on me... basically I want someone who can make his own decisions but will not try to control my decisions or my life.

*Was there something you did to make the man become less submissive?*
I don't want to make anyone less submissive. That's not my place.

*Would you consider changing roles?*
No. Not if it means my every move being dominated. I daresay a dominant man would not fill that role in the same way as a dominant woman.


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## curious0610 (Jun 27, 2010)

jack london said:


> @curious0610
> Oh yes, she is a feisty red-head. I feel sorry for her husband actually.


@jack london haha I see..I'm just curious  what's her type? Next time she complains, what if you say "great. Now tell me what you're going to do about it?"...or tell her to command them to stop! In the name of love~~
Anyway...i was going to edit my post but I'm currently on mobile and having a hard time navigating.


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## jack london (Aug 27, 2010)

@curious0610 
She is an ESTJ.

To Quote Happy...



Happy said:


> Tell me what ESTJ stereotypes you have heard of. This is in no way an attack on ESTJ's. This thread just gives awareness to the stereotypes of the ESTJ personality.
> 
> Here is my list of ESTJ stereotypes..
> 
> ...



All in all - a loving wife.


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## curious0610 (Jun 27, 2010)

jack london said:


> @curious0610
> She is an ESTJ.
> 
> To Quote Happy...
> ...


@jack london gotcha. :wink:


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## jack london (Aug 27, 2010)

An update to this thread....

My friend's husband is taking a class at their church called "MAN CLASS". My friend has high hopes for this because it combines relationships and religion into a single class. I don't know religion well enough to see how it fits in with this issue but lets hope they can work things out.

Now I'm wondering if they have a "WOMAN CLASS" and what could possibly be taught in there.


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

jack london said:


> An update to this thread....
> 
> My friend's husband is taking a class at their church called "MAN CLASS". My friend has high hopes for this because it combines relationships and religion into a single class. I don't know religion well enough to see how it fits in with this issue but lets hope they can work things out.
> 
> Now I'm wondering if they have a "WOMAN CLASS" and what could possibly be taught in there.


 If you were trying to break my brain, you just did.


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

Double Post. And lol, thank you for double thanking Jack.


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## Neon Knight (Aug 11, 2010)

jack london said:


> An update to this thread....
> 
> My friend's husband is taking a class at their church called "MAN CLASS". My friend has high hopes for this because it combines relationships and religion into a single class. I don't know religion well enough to see how it fits in with this issue but lets hope they can work things out.
> 
> Now I'm wondering if they have a "WOMAN CLASS" and what could possibly be taught in there.


If they have one they _should_ ideally have the other (I believe in total fairness), so long as it isn't mormon style and all they teach you is things like sewing and cooking and the less appealing things they do like 'your place'.


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## jack london (Aug 27, 2010)

Speaking of place... It's not my place to ask about the classes but I am dying to
know if the have a "womens class". I just want them to finally get a long and quit telling me about their relationship trouble. When men talk about relationships they skip over lots of details but this women tries to tell me too much so I'll be happy when they learn to talk to each other.


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## Neon Knight (Aug 11, 2010)

jack london said:


> Speaking of place... It's not my place to ask about the classes but I am dying to
> know if the have a "womens class". I just want them to finally get a long and quit telling me about their relationship trouble. When men talk about relationships they skip over lots of details but this women tries to tell me too much so I'll be happy when they learn to talk to each other.


Then ask  There's nothig wrong with asking questions. lol I understand. I get so annoyed hearing that stuff too. Most of the time they never do anything about it anyways, so I gave up giving advice long ago. Yeah sounds like they need to talk to each other for once. It's one thing to let off steam, but some people seem to take it too far, next thing you know you're in the middle, I bet you feel that way too eh?


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## jack london (Aug 27, 2010)

SuPEReViL said:


> Then ask  There's nothig wrong with asking questions. lol I understand. I get so annoyed hearing that stuff too. Most of the time they never do anything about it anyways, so I gave up giving advice long ago. Yeah sounds like they need to talk to each other for once. It's one thing to let off steam, but some people seem to take it too far, next thing you know you're in the middle, I bet you feel that way too eh?


She wasn't at work today (she works 4 ten hour days so I haven't seen her for a while but if this comes up and I'm going to ask about it. It would be kind of educational to see what they teach the men as well. Who knows I might learn something.


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## kiwigrl (Apr 27, 2010)

jack london said:


> My friend's husband is taking a class at their church called "MAN CLASS".


It's probably a great course to go to, but I'm sorry I am LMAO at the name of the class. "Man class"...so if you don't attend you could suddenly morph into a woman? lol. Ok, silly ENFJ going to shut up now lol.

But wait, there's more....



jack london said:


> Now I'm wondering if they have a "WOMAN CLASS" and what could possibly be taught in there.


 Probably pole dancing or burlesque lol. Now how could your marriage go wrong if you learnt those things and put them into practice in the bedroom? Would certainly make things interesting. :laughing:


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

I remember Promise Keepers for men and MOPs (Mothers of Preschoolers). I used to hold bible studies in my living room and the women loved me because of my honesty. I didn't understand why at the time. I'd ask questions like "Do you guys _always_ want sex with your man? Is it a sin to not? " Lol. The pastor's daughter was in the bible study and she was married and had a kid. She befriended me fast. She found me "refreshing". She said it was awesome the questions I asked and would laugh. I had no idea what she was talking about. I was just asking...

I know Promise Keepers is about "Men you are the head of the household and represent God. Live up to your responsibilites. Men sharpen men. Love your wife like Christ loved the church, etc."

Mops and other female bible studies were "Women, men are the head of the household. Honor him. If you have a need, work on yourself or pray. Here, let's do a craft." 

I tended to like the bible study that gave me the free child care. Promise Keepers meant that I was left with the child all day....again....


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## kiwigrl (Apr 27, 2010)

pinkrasputin said:


> I used to hold bible studies in my living room and the women loved me because of my honesty. I didn't understand why at the time. I'd ask questions like "Do you guys _always_ want sex with your man? Is it a sin to not? " Lol. The pastor's daughter was in the bible study and she was married and had a kid. She befriended me fast. She found me "refreshing". She said it was awesome the questions I asked and would laugh. I had no idea what she was talking about. I was just asking...


 You are just the kind of woman I gravitate towards at church. Not prudish, honest about what they are thinking and not afraid to talk about anything.


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## vel (May 17, 2010)

How exactly does she want him to be more manly? May be he is manly in a way that doesn't register with her? It's like love languages, he speaks a language of manliness that she doesn't understand 

From what I know of assertive women is that they are kind of screwed in this respect. If they get a guy who is more submissive, they feel like he is not living up to this ideal of man that they have. If they get a guy who is more assertive than them, they start getting into fights so relationship turns into a battlefield. I think she should just appreciate her husband for who he is rather than turning him into a Pygmalion project for herself. She did marry him, didn't she? So she must have thought that he is deserving.


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## Mutatio NOmenis (Jun 22, 2009)

pinkrasputin said:


> I really don't know because I have a tendency to build my partners up so I would probably miss it if they were once passive.
> 
> And outside of those with just a healthy preference for a more assertive male, I think there are other women who will complain about a passive man because they themselves are lazy or don't want to take responsibility for being the aggressor or even the "kinkier" one.
> 
> Maybe advise your woman friend to read Herb Golberg's books. Goldberg is a male advocate who suggests that the decline in relationships and even the early feminist movement is due to women continually forcing the man into traditional roles. Actually, they continually reinforce _each other_ into traditional roles (actor/reactor).


I've actually read those book too and I have to say that makes a lot of sense. Women still want to take and do the same roles they have in the past, however, they say they want new freedoms, rights, and respect. They're not earning it if they ultimately make their men be the ones who does the front leading for them because they don't feel that its right or feminine to themselves to do so. You've still got a long way to go, ladies in the push for equality. Here's a hint of how you can help yourselves rise to the level of men in everything: stop calling on us whenever you need someone persuaded or deal worked out; it doesn't make you look good and it ticks us off.


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

Mutatio NOmenis said:


> I've actually read those book too and I have to say that makes a lot of sense. Women still want to take and do the same roles they have in the past, however, they say they want new freedoms, rights, and respect. They're not earning it if they ultimately make their men be the ones who does the front leading for them because they don't feel that its right or feminine to themselves to do so. You've still got a long way to go, ladies in the push for equality. Here's a hint of how you can help yourselves rise to the level of men in everything: *stop calling on us whenever you need someone persuaded or deal worked out; it doesn't make you look good and it ticks us off.*


Are you getting too many calls from the women? I'm sorry.


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## The Unseen (Oct 26, 2010)

jack london said:


> My question for Dominate straight women is...
> 
> *Has this happened to you? *
> 
> ...


This has happened to me.

No, I am not okay with this.

I confronted him about it, because I was tired of feeling as though I was dragging around a lost puppy.

No. I want and expect my mate to be just as dominate as I am myself. I need a strong man, both mentally and emotionally. I had this issue with the ISTP that I dated, he was too weak, and I quickly became unsatisfied with the relationship, and moved on. I hate feeling as though I am the only one in the relationship with a backbone. No thanks.


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## goodgracesbadinfluence (Feb 28, 2011)

Mutatio NOmenis said:


> Here's a hint of how you can help yourselves rise to the level of men in everything: stop calling on us whenever you need someone persuaded or deal worked out; it doesn't make you look good and it ticks us off.


I despise when women do this. I was dating a guy and this girl who he barely even knew asked him to kick someone's ass for her. I went off on her out of principle. And honestly, I was pissed that another girl would ask _my_ boyfriend to do something like that, but hey, I was sixteen.

On a slight tangent, it also irritates the shit out of me when my current boyfriend is like, "If you ever got into a fight and you were losing I'd step in and kick their ass." For one thing, I really don't see myself ever getting into a physical altercation with anyone because I see no point and it's just not worth my time, nor my energy... I'd be over whatever made me mad in less than five minutes. But I also don't need his--or anyone's-- damn help. If I lose, I lose. At least I'll lose fairly.


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## Cover3 (Feb 2, 2011)

submissive as in rubber dominatrix and shit or submissive as in doesn't treat females like shit???


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