# Carl Jung's Enneagram Type



## LotusBlossom (Apr 2, 2011)

He's popularly typed as a 9w1 (Riso-Hudson & Enneagram Institute & Ocean Moonshine) + sx/sp (Typewatch), but I've seen a few other places that speculated him as a 5w4 as well.

Could any of you who know more of him than I do enlighten me as to why he's popularly typed as a 9, rather than a 5? 

I don't really know what more to say about this. Looking forward to everyone's answers.


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## aconite (Mar 26, 2012)

Kayness said:


> He's popularly typed as a 9w1 (Riso-Hudson & Enneagram Institute & Ocean Moonshine) + sx/sp (Typewatch), but I've seen a few other places that speculated him as a 5w4 as well.
> 
> Could any of you who know more of him than I do enlighten me as to why he's popularly typed as a 9, rather than a 5?
> 
> I don't really know what more to say about this. Looking forward to everyone's answers.


9w1? That's strange.

Ok, let's check wikiquote:


> The bigger the crowd, the more negligible the individual.





> There is no coming to consciousness without pain.





> No psychic value can disappear without being replaced by another of equivalent intensity.





> We are so captivated by and entangled in our subjective consciousness that we have forgotten the age-old fact that God speaks chiefly through dreams and visions.





> If, for instance, I determine the weight of each stone in a bed of pebbles and get an average weight of 145 grams, this tells me very little about the real nature of the pebbles. Anyone who thought, on the basis of these findings, that he could pick up a pebbles of 145 grams at the first try would be in for a serious disappointment. Indeed, it might well happen that however long he searched he would not find a single pebble weighing exactly 145 grams.





> This whole creation is essentially subjective, and the dream is the theater where the dreamer is at once scene, actor, prompter, stage manager, author, audience, and critic.





> As far as we can discern, the sole purpose of human existence is to kindle a light in the darkness of mere being.





> Ah, these good, efficient, healthy-minded people, they always remind me of those optimistic tadpoles who bask in a puddle in the sun, in the shallowest of waters, crowding together and amiably wriggling their tails, totally unaware that the next morning the puddle will have dried up and left them stranded.


...yes, I think he was a 5w4.


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## noaydi (Feb 18, 2011)

5w4 seem ok, possibly NiTeFiSe


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## cyamitide (Jul 8, 2010)

aconite said:


> 9w1? That's strange.
> 
> Ok, let's check wikiquote:
> 
> ...yes, I think he was a 5w4.


Can you explain your reasoning here? How do these quotes that you posted make Jung a 5w4?


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## aconite (Mar 26, 2012)

cyamitide said:


> Can you explain your reasoning here? How do these quotes that you posted make Jung a 5w4?


Did I write anywhere that they "make" him a 5w4? I get that vibe from the quotes, that's all. And since he's long dead, we can't be sure what type he was anyway.


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## cyamitide (Jul 8, 2010)

aconite said:


> Did I write anywhere that they "make" him a 5w4? I get that vibe from the quotes, that's all. And since he's long dead, we can't be sure what type he was anyway.


 You re-posted several of Jung's quotes and then said "yes, I think he was a 5w4" as if his type could just be inferred from those statements. But there is actually no reasoning behind your "thinking" that he was a 5w4, just a vibe?


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## Stephen (Jan 17, 2011)

@aconite

What about those quotes gives you a five vibe?


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## MuChApArAdOx (Jan 24, 2011)

Hum , i don't know. I didn't get a 5w4 from those quotes either. Those quotes could have been said by a number of the ENNG types. I'll be checking back, interesting


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## Scruffy (Aug 17, 2009)

Stephen said:


> aconite
> 
> What about those quotes gives you a five vibe?


Using your mind is solely attributed to 5's.


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## aconite (Mar 26, 2012)

MuChApArAdOx said:


> Those quotes could have been said by a number of the ENNG types. I'll be checking back, interesting


Of course. I'm not denying the possibility that he could have been a 9w1, or in fact anything else. The only person who could have known for sure was Jung himself.



Kayness said:


> He's popularly typed as a 9w1 (Riso-Hudson & Enneagram Institute & Ocean Moonshine) + sx/sp (Typewatch), but I've seen a few other places that speculated him as a 5w4 as well.


Just out of curiosity, was there an explanation provided, or was Jung just listed as an example?

I haven't read any of Jung's books; they might provide a better insight on what he wanted/valued. If anyone has (especially _Memories, Dreams, Reflections_), I'd be glad to read their opinion.

My initial impression on what Jung said about himself and the world: he strikes me as deeply inquisitive (which is not solely a 5 attribute, but would fit 5's idea of omniscience), favouring individuality and autonomy, being interested in anything archetypical, symbolic (again, an interest sometimes associated with 4/5, but not exclusive to these types) and his deep dedication to the areas he was interested in the most. Also, the fact that he disliked being considered a mystic and preferred being seen as a man of science. He believed that individuation can be achieved through ego-consciousness; I realise that it doesn't necessarily mean he was an ego type (4, 5, 9), but I think it's worth considering.

I think I can see the source of the confusion: I didn't pick those specific quotes just to prove a point; a copy-paste of an entire wikiquote site would be unnecessary, so I chose the quotes that stood out and, in my opinion, reflected how he thought and preferred to explain his point of view. I think I should've been more specific about that. 



no_id said:


> 5w4 seem ok, possibly NiTeFiSe


This article implies that Jung used both Ti and Ni:


> Although one camp argues that he was an INTP (ie, Jungian IT) and the other argues that he was INTJ (Jungian IN), both remain unaware - because they are caught up in MBTI assumptions - of the fact that Jung was, ironically, himself a 'pure' type. A person who had introverted thinking and introverted intuition as his first two functions (with the former as dominant at some points in his career, and the latter dominant at other times), Jung was one 'pure' or 'extreme' type who not only lived 'effectively', but also made an extremely significant contribution.


and later, a hypothesis that certain enneatypes attract/invite what the authors call "the pure types":


> For example, the 'pure type' that is uniquely associated with zone Five is the INT -which has dominant introverted thinking and auxiliary introverted intuition.


I don't think that switching from Ti-dom into Ni-dom is possible, though. Did Jung say whether he considered himself an introvert or an extravert (since he coined the terms)? I'm inclined to think he was introverted, but I'm curious if he ever confirmed that.


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## Stephen (Jan 17, 2011)

Thanks for the explanation of your rationale.

I understand Jung to be neither an INTP nor an INTJ. A Ti-Ni user, but Ni as his tertiary. He described himself as the equivalent of an ISTP. I haven't personally seen anything in his writing that doesn't fit with Ti-Se, either. A strong focus on what he has observed, and its interpretation. But this thread is about his enneagram type, so let's not start that debate in yet another thread. If you do want to discuss his MBTI, there is a thread already.

http://personalitycafe.com/guess-type/13952-carl-jung.html


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## noaydi (Feb 18, 2011)

> This article implies that Jung used both Ti and Ni:


This could be INFp, INFJ in mbti, so. I dont see it as Fe valuing anyway. INTp (socionic) stay valid in the sense he have Ni at first, Ti as demonstrative wich is as strong as the first function. Some say hes INTj (INTP mbti), thats another possibility. That are the 2 type with equally strong Ti and Ni


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## LotusBlossom (Apr 2, 2011)

aconite said:


> Just out of curiosity, was there an explanation provided, or was Jung just listed as an example?
> .


 Not really. You can see here that he's mentioned:
9 - Enneagram Type Nine: The Peacemaker but no explanation was given.

Ocean Moonshine probably gave the most explanation as to why he might have been a 9w1, but that's a sentence long :dry:
Nines - the enneagram ...info from the underground
"Nines often have an intuitive grasp of the workings of the subconscious mind. Consider Carl Jung and Joseph Campbell in this regard."


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

I have the "feeling" he was a 5w4, and this not just because he could "think" as well as he did. It's just an intuitive guess for which I have little factual support. 

Since I have nothing more to add to the conversation besides this statement, I am going to sit back and read what others have to say. It would've been nice to read a longer explanation for Jung's typing from ocean moonshine.


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## unico (Feb 3, 2011)

I've read many books by Jung and read his autobiography. My first instinct was to type him as a 5, he seems very intellectual, rather detached, possessing emotions, but not being overwhelmed by them. I'm not the best at typing people, though, as a warning.


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## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

I have no idea how to figure out his enneagram type, although going from the quotes provided, I wouldn't be surprised if he was a 5 at least - he seemed to struggle with detachment from people throughout his life, from what I remember reading. Detachment from emotions seems to be a common 5 tendency, anyhow.


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## TaylorS (Jan 24, 2010)

If you've read his autobiography you can tell he is definitely a 5, as are a good number of other ISTPs (which tend to be 5s and 6s).

I would guess his Tri-type to be 5-9-4.


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## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

He was very eccentric, no doubt, which tends to align well with 5w4 (I should know, haha!). It seems like 5w4s are the types who tend to romanticize their ideas to the point that they become something of a part of their identity that they prefer others to treat as such or recognize - it might be possible that Jung was like this - at least I heard he was quite dogmatic with his ideas and the way that people treated them...


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## cyamitide (Jul 8, 2010)

this description of sp/sx 9s resembles Jung to a significant extent:
sp/sx 9w1

This typewi is the eyes and fingers of the universe examining itself. They are most aware of how everyone is connected indirectly through the swamps of psychic muck. They have a sense of adventure and view the world as a playground where they can move beyond the biases of their own ego by learning about the world around them. They learn about themselves by learning about others and they want to grasp every interesting person they encounter at the level of the unconscious....engagement isn't exactly necessary but rather they have an extrasensory decoder for the subconscious... They aren't burdened by social obligations, so their inner aesthetic is a daily source of nourishment. Their internal repose slows things down so they can get a better look and feel for the world around them....they see the textures that others miss and can articulate the texture in a way that taps into the electrical charge of reality. Their convictions and ideals are more personal than sp/so, but also unshakeable. They cobble together their own basic truths without the drag of social responsibility and embrace philosophies as flexible as necessary to accommodate their personal epiphanies...they believe that words and language are imperfect and childish tools to communicate these truths and epiphanies. They feel truth can only be hinted at through aesthetics. They are drawn to and fascinated by the language of the unspoken and believe this is where all the intentions of life spring.... They view words as primitive and utilitarian, and attune themselves to the subconscious realm (under the spoken word) where it is impossible for people to hide their inner being....They can resemble 5w4s in their grasp for subtlety, but they are working at a more elemental level where nothing is purely true, but nothing is purely not true. All expression is a distortion of the truth that relates to the origin of the cosmos. Every act pertains to "god" "creation" the "singularity." Even people's masks and false propositions are distortions of this truth. They are more interested in the elemental forces that move events rather than the event itself. They have access to archetypes in the unconscious where mythological battles can be hashed out while keeping the 9 disconnected from their instinct. They have the freedom to play around with absurdity and imagine extreme 'violence' and destruction against the elements they have merged with in their imagination. They view life as a series of inevitabilities...They take a passive role in relationships as if they were fully merged with the universe's agenda to let all things happen as they must.
​Discussions from enneagram institute:
The Enneagram Institute Discussion Board - Carl Jung
The Enneagram Institute Discussion Board - Type of CG Jung and Joseph Campbell


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## Mizmar (Aug 12, 2009)

cyamitide said:


> this description of sp/sx 9s resembles Jung to a significant extent:


I identify with about half of what's written there, though I don't type myself as a Nine. I have some doubts about being sp/sx as well.


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