# How do I determine if I am a Ni vs Ne user and Ti vs Te user?



## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Longhair said:


> The player finds a very important hint at 3:05, but somehow avoids spotting it by focusing on the keyhole instead of the cube. One of the sides of this 'cube' has a great deal of symmetry. If you ignore all the holes, it's actually a 3x3 square. That square would only be able to fit two places in the keyhole; in the bottom three squares and in the three right squares. This reduces the possible number of solutions to 8.


I think the biggest problem with this puzzle is that you don't see the two empty lines in the middle and if you're like me, you will rush into solving it without looking at all the data first. I'm afraid to say I am such a J dom that way.


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## emerald sea (Jun 4, 2011)

look at inferior function usage under stress to determine your dominant function. each set of types that share a dominant function also share the same inferior function. 

if you see yourself using a cognitive function often, it's hard to determine where it ranks in terms of degree of usage, compared against the other functions you also use; but expression of the inferior function under stress is strikingly dissimilar between otherwise similar types (as long as those similar types don't share the same dominant function).

examine your behavior under stress, compare it against how the inferior function comes out in each MBTI type you think you may be, which should help narrow down what is most likely your dominant function. that will limit your options to two possible MBTI types. then work from there ~ 

i can post or send you specific information on how each inferior function "behaves" under stress - at some point - if you like. just tell me about which types you want the information, and how much detail would be helpful.


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## Vermillion (Jan 22, 2012)

LeaT said:


> First sentence reeks Te to me. Seems that you seek validation but I am tired and not really fit to analyze right now.


Keep in mind that sentences are sometimes constructed with functions in mind. I mean, a lot of people on this forum (and I'm not going to exclude myself), even some of the experienced ones, tend to use common typist terminology to try and fit their statements into a set of predefined ones. Studying this theory for a long while sort of oversimplifies things in one's head, sometimes so much that they can confidently make their spin on the theory as long as they make sense. I'm going off-track and I'll stop after saying this.
"What is the end goal I am supposed to achieve?" can actually be something else. That's why it's hard to type people, because you don't know the motivation behind their standard statements. 
Of course I mean no offense to the OP's sense of self-understanding.


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## coquelicot (Jun 8, 2012)

If you were a Te user you would be able to organise your thoughts without actively thinking about it and then present them in a concrete, almost robotic manner. I know an INTJ and an ISTJ and they both have that super-confident, monotonous talking style, despite their overall shyness. My own inferior Te leads me to rant incessantly about topics that interest me, I may even raise my voice and cutt others off if I get too passionate, which makes everyone surprised cause most times I just sit in a quiet corner gazing into space. I also have an INFJ friend (heavy Ni plus Ti) and I find her thought process hard to follow. She says very little and it's as if she expects me to know what's inside her head by throwing clues. Most times I have to 'fish out' information by asking all sorts of silly questions. An INTP I know is quite open around friends, very witty and observant, he speaks his mind through sarcasm by throwing quick, creative comments at the right moment and smiling like a naughty kid. 

You can judge for yourself, but I'd say you are Ti and what gets in your way when you try to verbalise your thoughts is your social anxiety.


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## Playful Proxy (Feb 6, 2012)

coquelicot said:


> If you were a Te user you would be able to organise your thoughts without actively thinking about it and then present them in a concrete, almost robotic manner. I know an INTJ and an ISTJ and they both have that super-confident, monotonous talking style, despite their overall shyness. My own inferior Te leads me to rant incessantly about topics that interest me, I may even raise my voice and cutt others off if I get too passionate, which makes everyone surprised cause most times I just sit in a quiet corner gazing into space. I also have an INFJ friend (heavy Ni plus Ti) and I find her thought process hard to follow. She says very little and it's as if she expects me to know what's inside her head by throwing clues. Most times I have to 'fish out' information by asking all sorts of silly questions. An INTP I know is quite open around friends, very witty and observant, he speaks his mind through sarcasm by throwing quick, creative comments at the right moment and smiling like a naughty kid.
> 
> You can judge for yourself, but I'd say you are Ti and what gets in your way when you try to verbalise your thoughts is your social anxiety.


I'm usually too confused with why they don't understand my reasoning. Logical fallacies drive me up the wall, and after I type something up, I usually edit and alter it a few times if I see that what I said could have been misunderstood to mean something else. I can usually correct and fix spelling and grammatical mistakes the first time though they are less important to me than actual accuracy.

I'm thinking I am more of a dominant intuitive regardless of which type simply because I don't consider myself to be quite so rigid intellectually. At the same time, randomly 'creating things' doesn't seem to be my forte either so I am not sure if that rules out Ne or not. From what I have read of Ni, it is extremely abstract in its processing ability and half the time, draws completely off-the-wall links between facts. My issue is that this definition is vague to me since I don't know where the line lies between what 'normal' psychological links actually consist of. If someone says one thing and I instantly can imagine one of 5 things they could have meant by it, become confused as to which one is the actual meaning, and decide what I believe to be the most likely choice, how 'abstract' is that exactly? 

Example: If someone says, "I'd fuck you.", does that mean that I am attractive and/or socially acceptable enough to get laid, does it mean they have intention or want to do so, or do they simply mean I am attractive looking. (Obviously, it is usually the latter unless tone of voice gives away other clues)

That kind of thing.


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## Cyphyr (Jun 6, 2012)

LeaT said:


> Are you certain that's Ti and not Ne with Ti? I think what you describe would only occur as long as Ne feeds Ti data. Once the data feed ends Ti will judge the situation regardless. Strong Ne will however force Ti to keep considering new data in order to achieve greater clarity of the most logical conclusion.
> 
> Hmm, I can't actually recognize myself much in that movie example at all. I am not entirely sure if that's Fe or Te, but it's probably a combination of them, as I will usually try to formulate my opinion of something before I know what it is. This means referring to existing reviews, comments, IMDB and so forth. Whether the people are considered authority on the subject is less important to me though, unless it's something like IMDB I guess. Then I might consider the star rank of the movie before I watch it to get an idea of what to expect, but I rarely let these things affect my personal opinion much in the end. I will still formulate my own. I might also watch a movie and later confirm my opinion afterwards, usually by going to the IMDB if it's anime, Anime Planet. And I might create a troll thread or two in the forum just to express my opinion but I rarely if ever respond to them <.<
> 
> At a closer thought, I think it's more Te and Fi than Fe. I tend to dismiss the opinions of those I don't consider to be authoritative on the subject, e.g. people whose opinions I hold in high esteem because they might know me and my tastes well or because their tastes overlap with mine.


I suppose it is Ti and Ne. Im still trying to decide whether or not I may personally be Ne dom with a strong Ti or Ti with strong Ne... 
Anyhoo.. I was attempting to give a severely shorthand version of a conversation I had with my INTJ husband who loves to have lots of information before he sees a movie. 
And I should say that on occasion I become obsessed and want to know everything immediately, but its usually only after I have the framework to center my research and thoughts on the subject. Usually just to define what Im looking for so when I get lost on a crazy Ne tangent I can find my way back.
Disregard if none of that made sense or was relevant....


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## mangiferaindica (Jun 13, 2012)

My understanding of the differences between Ti and Te comes from my experiences with my very Je orientated family. I don't feel sexist in saying that the males in my immediate family are all T biased and females are all F biased. My understanding of T comes solely from a male perspective and my thoughts may not be entirely considerate of the spin a female's experiences may add to it.

Now down to business.

My ISTJ father, an easy example, will talk in the form of hierarchies. He will reach conclusions, not through inner logical framework, but through the accepted norms of the people outside his psych. He compares and contrasts his opinions to the opinions of the people around him. There is, unfortunately, bias to dominant and successful people in the linear workings of a Te's (specifically ISTJ) thought processes.

This has lead me to believe that Te and Ti have a similar relationship in comparison to Fe and Fi. Simply, Fe is all about understanding the feeling behind social interactions and judges based on common practice, whereas Fi is more concerned with breaking those individual social cues down to understand them on a personal level, rather than just accepting them as true based on their usage in the outside world.

A similar definition for Ti/Te can be derived from the above. Te wants to understand the "good, better, and best" of thinking while incorporating more heavily the opinions of outside influences that hold 'higher' positions of what they perceive to be a better understanding of the argument at hand.

Ti, according to the comparison, is taking each individual logical argument, subtracting the hierarchical bias from them, and working through each step from point A to B to C, etc. without skipping over any letters in the process. Te is perfectly content to skip letters if his personal group has already made an 'acceptable' decision.


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## coquelicot (Jun 8, 2012)

@_Signify_

I stick with INTP (no, I don't glue the type on my sleeve or something, it's an idiom haha). It doesn't matter if you are not super-intellectual, not all NTs are. You _are_ rigid when you support your own logic no matter what and you're baffled when others don't quite get it. The detached way in which you monitor your thought processes and the way you detect logical inconsistences is pure Ti. Based on your example phrase, the wide range of possible meanings you get from it is Ne-aux. I don't think you are ENTP, because if you had Fe in tertiary position you would be better at understanding the metalinguistic elements of a conversation and you'd also be better at playing with words, smiling and manipulating people's moods.


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## Cyphyr (Jun 6, 2012)

@mangiferaindica: 
I think you've stated something along the lines of what I was attempting to say, but perhaps more clearly. Thanks 
@Signify: Its an open ended question, but still a good one to consider: how important to you are external values? or to be even more open ended: what purpose does the outside world fulfill in your life? Do you use it as a source of information to be analyzed internally or do you prefer to use it as a testing ground for theories and ideas? 
Again, from my own extensive thought on the matter, especially in relation to my own type related questions, (and compared to my husband who is INTJ) Ive found that I generally use the world around me to gather ideas. I want to experience and witness things in order to fuel my analysis. I constantly seek new information to feed my internal judging process. If I compare my husbands apparent thought process I see that his is something more along the lines of wanting to use the world to test his conceptions. He will devise something that can be put into practice. This isnt to differentiate Ti from Te or Ni from Ne but rather Ti/Ne versus Te/Ni as that seems to be more the crux of your issue as I see it. (A person's top two functions tend to operate as a pair and I believe that addressing them as such will be more useful since you seem to be looking at behaviour.)

I hope that is somewhat helpful...


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## MegaTuxRacer (Sep 7, 2011)

coquelicot said:


> @_Signify_
> 
> I stick with INTP (no, I don't glue the type on my sleeve or something, it's an idiom haha). It doesn't matter if you are not super-intellectual, not all NTs are. You _are_ rigid when you support your own logic no matter what and you're baffled when others don't quite get it. The detached way in which you monitor your thought processes and the way you detect logical inconsistences is pure Ti. Based on your example phrase, the wide range of possible meanings you get from it is Ne-aux. I don't think you are ENTP, because if you had Fe in tertiary position you would be better at understanding the metalinguistic elements of a conversation and you'd also be better at playing with words, smiling and manipulating people's moods.


None of this lends itself exclusively to being an INTP.


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## mangiferaindica (Jun 13, 2012)

@cocuelicot (blasted personalitycafe won't let me quote you yet)

Agreed. The easily identifiable mark that differentiates between an INTP and an ENTP is the ability to emotionally manipulate (as well as more spontaneous Ne use, but I digress). As an INTP, I have no natural inclination to use this to my advantage, but now that I see the usefullness of it, I've put it at the forefront of my thoughts during social interactions.
Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like my Fe is going to develop this way. Rather, my Ti is gaining knowledge of *how* it is used and *why* it works. I don't have the intuition that sees directly through the possible results of Fe use that I don't have any experience with.


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## Playful Proxy (Feb 6, 2012)

Cyphyr said:


> @_mangiferaindica_:
> I think you've stated something along the lines of what I was attempting to say, but perhaps more clearly. Thanks
> @_Signify_: Its an open ended question, but still a good one to consider: how important to you are external values? or to be even more open ended: what purpose does the outside world fulfill in your life? Do you use it as a source of information to be analyzed internally or do you prefer to use it as a testing ground for theories and ideas?
> Again, from my own extensive thought on the matter, especially in relation to my own type related questions, (and compared to my husband who is INTJ) Ive found that I generally use the world around me to gather ideas. I want to experience and witness things in order to fuel my analysis. I constantly seek new information to feed my internal judging process. If I compare my husbands apparent thought process I see that his is something more along the lines of wanting to use the world to test his conceptions. He will devise something that can be put into practice. This isnt to differentiate Ti from Te or Ni from Ne but rather Ti/Ne versus Te/Ni as that seems to be more the crux of your issue as I see it. (A person's top two functions tend to operate as a pair and I believe that addressing them as such will be more useful since you seem to be looking at behaviour.)
> ...


To answer your question, I see the outside world as more of a giver of truth. You can analyze in your head all you want, but in reality, what you see outside is the result of an action. I would rather use the outer world to test since the inner world is most likely flawed with preconceptions. If I get an idea, I can reason internally how I believe it will work all day long, but until I apply it and actually see if it works, I will still be unsure. And then comes the question of if it works....were there variables active that could prevent it from working in the future.


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## coquelicot (Jun 8, 2012)

> None of this lends itself exclusively to being an INTP.


Of course not. No type behaves in a certain manner 'exclusively'. It's not black and white, but the guy asked for an opinion so I provided one. I don't necessarily insist on the accuracy of my claims. Besides, as I read somewhere behaviour does not determine function, it's the other way around.


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## Larxene (Nov 24, 2011)

@OP:

"...many people admit that users of Ti or Ne are REALLY good at explaining their thought processes in great detail."

*Only if *they have been doing some introspecting for a substantial amount of time. This is from my experience.


"...I'm not all that great on picking up which sets of information the other person needs to draw the same conclusion I did..."

Introversion makes one subjective. I am not sure whether Ni is like this, though usually if Te (assuming INTJ/ENTJ) is well developed, this doesn't happen.


"...I just sort of throw out random information I think is helpful and give them my conclusion."

The throwing out random information part is somewhat Ne. Ne people love to share tidbits of information; in fact they love to do it so much that often, when the information hasn't been processed by Ti yet, the information tends to be disorganized and out of order.

However, unless Ti has sufficiently processed the information, the conclusion is usually implied.


"I'm extremely irritated by logical fallacies, but I can usually never explain why. I just know that something is wrong."

This could be Ni or Ti. Generally I think it is more of a Ti trait; with Ni it's more like you know some fact or idea is true without really knowing why. Logical fallacies can only exist when there are premises and a conclusion; with Ni it usually tries to determine whether one premise or one conclusion is true or false rather than determine whether the premises *lead* to the conclusion.

I have this problem too, and I am a Ti bearer.


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## Playful Proxy (Feb 6, 2012)

Larxene said:


> "I'm extremely irritated by logical fallacies, but I can usually never explain why. I just know that something is wrong."
> 
> This could be Ni or Ti. Generally I think it is more of a Ti trait; with Ni it's more like you know some fact or idea is true without really knowing why. Logical fallacies can only exist when there are premises and a conclusion; with Ni it usually tries to determine whether one premise or one conclusion is true or false rather than determine whether the premises *lead* to the conclusion.
> 
> I have this problem too, and I am a Ti bearer.


But that makes debates suck when this happens...you can't tell someone they are wrong because you 'feel like it'. If I can't tell them why they are wrong, I lose by default (that happened in one formal debate and at the end when I found out what I was missing...graaahhhh...I only needed to say 5 words.)


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## Sollertis (Aug 2, 2012)

Signify said:


> I don't think I think linearly in most cases. My conclusions make sense, but I would not necessarily say that I could provide a step-by-step breakdown of how I arrived there. An idea occurred to me that if I debated something simple here, would cognitive functions be more likely to genuinely shine through?


I think that the functions _are _shining through, it sounds to me like you're an INTJ Ni > Te > Fi > Se.


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## Playful Proxy (Feb 6, 2012)

Sollertis said:


> I think that the functions _are _shining through, it sounds to me like you're an INTJ Ni > Te > Fi > Se.


How would you say exactly? I am finding that each individual type is tending to attempt to type me as their own type.


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## Sollertis (Aug 2, 2012)

Signify said:


> How would you say exactly? I am finding that each individual type is tending to attempt to type me as their own type.


You said above that you don't engage in linear thinking, which basically rules out Ti as your dominant function. The way you described the way you think is probably more akin to Ni, you're irritated when you think something is a logical fallacy but can't explain why, you find it difficult to communicate your thoughts (which I gave my theory for above), and your method of communicating information _looks _like Te. It's entirely possible that I'm only seeing in your post what I've experienced myself, but I can tell you I'm at least moderately familiar with what you're describing.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Signify said:


> I'm usually too confused with why they don't understand my reasoning. Logical fallacies drive me up the wall, and after I type something up, I usually edit and alter it a few times if I see that what I said could have been misunderstood to mean something else. I can usually correct and fix spelling and grammatical mistakes the first time though they are less important to me than actual accuracy.
> 
> I'm thinking I am more of a dominant intuitive regardless of which type simply because I don't consider myself to be quite so rigid intellectually. At the same time, randomly 'creating things' doesn't seem to be my forte either so I am not sure if that rules out Ne or not. From what I have read of Ni, it is extremely abstract in its processing ability and half the time, draws completely off-the-wall links between facts. My issue is that this definition is vague to me since I don't know where the line lies between what 'normal' psychological links actually consist of. If someone says one thing and I instantly can imagine one of 5 things they could have meant by it, become confused as to which one is the actual meaning, and decide what I believe to be the most likely choice, how 'abstract' is that exactly?
> 
> ...


Not reading through all of this right now, but the latter portion sounds Ne and Ti, not Ni and Te. Ni is more of a "I know what this means" kind of thing. 



Cyphyr said:


> I suppose it is Ti and Ne. Im still trying to decide whether or not I may personally be Ne dom with a strong Ti or Ti with strong Ne...
> Anyhoo.. I was attempting to give a severely shorthand version of a conversation I had with my INTJ husband who loves to have lots of information before he sees a movie.
> And I should say that on occasion I become obsessed and want to know everything immediately, but its usually only after I have the framework to center my research and thoughts on the subject. Usually just to define what Im looking for so when I get lost on a crazy Ne tangent I can find my way back.
> Disregard if none of that made sense or was relevant....


Not a problem. Just trying to give a clearer idea by providing my own opinion and experience about this.


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## Emerson (Mar 13, 2011)

Not going to give any reasons or anything because I can't be bothered. But I had you pegged as an INTP.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Larxene said:


> This could be Ni or Ti. Generally I think it is more of a Ti trait; with Ni it's more like you know some fact or idea is true without really knowing why. Logical fallacies can only exist when there are premises and a conclusion; with Ni it usually tries to determine whether one premise or one conclusion is true or false rather than determine whether the premises *lead* to the conclusion.
> 
> I have this problem too, and I am a Ti bearer.


I would like to correct you and say it is not either one, but _both_. Ti cannot judge without some kind of perception that creates data for Ti to judge. The data seems to be Ni rather than Ne, with Ti. Notice that the impression is 100% internal, because he just knows. Ne or Te would at least on some level see what it is he knows or why he knows. When the thinking process is entirely internal, the logical conclusions can be hard for the thinker to understand due to Pi.


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## Cyphyr (Jun 6, 2012)

LeaT are you implying that OP is perhaps an NFJ in a loop? Just asking...


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## Boolean11 (Jun 11, 2012)

Signify said:


> Alright guys, a few things to address. Given that I have been claiming INTP/ENTP for a while, it began to occur to me that many people admit that users of Ti or Ne are REALLY good at explaining their thought processes in great detail. At first, this did not bother me, but as time progressed, I began to realize, I don't do this, at all. I can't explain half the things that go through my head and when I try, it is often misinterpreted. Is this the result of Ni?
> 
> At the moment, I think my function stack is something along the lines of:
> 
> ...


 _Signify_ Check out this thread:
http://personalitycafe.com/cognitive-functions/115791-subjective-versus-objective.html


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## Love Wins (Jul 18, 2011)

Hahaha!!! Listening to him talk while solving this puzzle made me laugh but it was SO FRUSTRATING!! I wanted to take control of it myself. And it also bugged me that I couldn't pick up the puzzle and see the shape behind it first before trying to put the box shape thing on top. I was trying to solve the puzzle but was frustrated cause I could only see the sides that he chose to look at. I'm still trying to figure out whether I use Ti or Te too. And I'm pretty sure I'm NF so that would put either one of those in either the 3rd or inferior functions in my personality.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Love Wins said:


> Hahaha!!! Listening to him talk while solving this puzzle made me laugh but it was SO FRUSTRATING!! I wanted to take control of it myself. And it also bugged me that I couldn't pick up the puzzle and see the shape behind it first before trying to put the box shape thing on top. I was trying to solve the puzzle but was frustrated cause I could only see the sides that he chose to look at. I'm still trying to figure out whether I use Ti or Te too. And I'm pretty sure I'm NF so that would put either one of those in either the 3rd or inferior functions in my personality.


I honestly get an INTJ-ish vibe from you based on this post alone that could be entirely off. Seems like you wanted to get an idea of all the parts first to solve the puzzle which seems to point towards Se and Ni use at least. Ne with Ti can take logical shortcuts where it might say that if we know 3 out of 4 sides, we don't need to know the 4th side if we can logically determine that the shape of 4th side is irrelevant to solving the puzzle.


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## Love Wins (Jul 18, 2011)

Wow thanks! That's actually really helpful to hear! I've been hearing from a lot of people that the Ni function seem to fit me. And actually the more I understand the definitions of the functions and the difference between Ne and Ni, I realize Ni is actually what I use most often. I find that Ne is becoming easy for me to recognize in people and Ni less so. But that would make sense considering that Ni is introverted. I used to think that I was boring and not very driven when I looked at other people who had a crazy number of ideas and interests (my brother, an INTP, would be an example of that), and I really just get so overwhelmed by too many possibilities. I would just think, "How in the world am I supposed to understand everything and break ALL of that down?" I think to me, "understand" means something much more in depth than most people think. When I talk to people, I get a lot of confused looks and peoples' eyes either "glaze over" or they cut the conversation short. Does that sound like Ni?


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Love Wins said:


> Wow thanks! That's actually really helpful to hear! I've been hearing from a lot of people that the Ni function seem to fit me. And actually the more I understand the definitions of the functions and the difference between Ne and Ni, I realize Ni is actually what I use most often. I find that Ne is becoming easy for me to recognize in people and Ni less so. But that would make sense considering that Ni is introverted. I used to think that I was boring and not very driven when I looked at other people who had a crazy number of ideas and interests (my brother, an INTP, would be an example of that), and I really just get so overwhelmed by too many possibilities. I would just think, "How in the world am I supposed to understand everything and break ALL of that down?" I think to me, "understand" means something much more in depth than most people think. When I talk to people, I get a lot of confused looks and peoples' eyes either "glaze over" or they cut the conversation short. Does that sound like Ni?


Could be. If you really want to establish your type you should make a thread in the typing forum though.


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## Love Wins (Jul 18, 2011)

LeaT said:


> Could be. If you really want to establish your type you should make a thread in the typing forum though.


I've made a couple threads there. They've provided a little bit of help, but not many people have responded. Probably because I tend to write too much.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Love Wins said:


> I've made a couple threads there. They've provided a little bit of help, but not many people have responded. Probably because I tend to write too much.


Yeah, I am not really that active in there anymore. Time being one of the reasons why.


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## SollessEagle (Nov 5, 2012)

Signify said:


> How would you say exactly? I am finding that each individual type is tending to attempt to type me as their own type.


Hahaha! I noticed the exact same thing reading through through this thread. There does seem to be a bias toward others trying to type you as their type.


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## Cellar Door (Jun 3, 2012)

Wow, what a throw back, @SollessEagle how many pages back did you have to go to find this thread?


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## SollessEagle (Nov 5, 2012)

Cellar Door said:


> Wow, what a throw back, @_SollessEagle_ how many pages back did you have to go to find this thread?


Oh crap, I just realized how old this was. I actually didn't do any digging at all, I found it off of a link in the "Similar Threads" box (like the one down below vvv) of a different discussion I was following before I came to this one. 

...yeah it even looks like the OP has now typed himself as an ENTP anyway.


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## PaladinX (Feb 20, 2013)

You will need a cotton swab, microscope, litmus paper, latex gloves, and a copy of Descartes' meditations

1. Put on latex gloves.
2. Lick litmus paper.
3. How did it taste? Gross?
4. Swirl cotton swab on the inside of your cheek and apply the spit to a microscope slide.
5. While balancing the copy of Descartes' meditations on your head, examine spit through microscope.
6. Ask yourself if this is really happening? Did you really taste that litmus paper? How has your life gone wrong to have lead you to do such an experiment? Am I really living?

One answer will give you INTP, the other INTJ. Both will make you sound nuts if you try to tell anyone how you concluded your type.


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