# Can you unravel my typing mystery?



## Couldbeworse (Apr 25, 2013)

20 years old, male. 

*1. Click on this link: ** Look at the random photo for about 30 seconds. Copy and paste it here, and write about your impression of it.*

Whoops, can't post a link, as this is my first post. By the way, great site. I've been browsing it for a while now.

Cool car, very sleek. Nice neighborhood too, green grass and trees. Probably a nice place to live. I'd have fun driving the car for recreation. But its too fancy and too expensive for my budget and tastes.

*2. You are with a group of people in a car, heading to a different town to see your favourite band/artist/musician. Suddenly, the car breaks down for an unknown reason in the middle of nowhere. What are your initial thoughts? What are your outward reactions?*

Initial thoughts: Well, this is too bad. We're going to have to find some way to make the best out of the situation. I hope no one gets upset. 
Outward reactions: Remain silent, waiting for someone to talk first. Then I try to determine what the problem is, flat tire, under-the-hood, will it be fixable? Try to alleviate any bad feelings with a joke.

*3. You somehow make it to the concert. The driver wants to go to the afterparty that was announced (and assure you they won't drink so they can drive back later). How do you feel about this party? What do you do?*

I don't think drinking parties are a good idea in the first place. So many bad things go along with drinking--sex, drunk driving, rambunctious behavior. I'd tell my friend I'd rather go home insistently, only conceding to them going to the party while I do something else and we can drive back later.

*4. On the drive back, your friends are talking. A friend makes a claim that clashes with your current beliefs. What is your inward reaction? What do you outwardly say?*

Inward reaction--Bummer that my friend thinks that way. I wonder what his/her background is that makes them think that way. 
Outwardly say--I'd probe for more information on their belief. I'd find the hole then explain to them what I believe. 

*5. What would you do if you actually saw/experienced something that clashes with your previous beliefs, experiences, and habits?
*
I'd feel bad about it, wanting to say something, but only if the opportunity arises. 

*6. What are some of your most important values? How did you come about determining them? How can they change?*

Everyone needs a friend--Some people are treated like nothing. To counteract this, they need people who show true care about them. I'm not sure where I got this from. I guess I just had a good friend in elementary school who was picked on. My brother wasn't bullied but he wasn't exactly liked at all in school. In order to be in the popular group you need to be funny, cool, athletic. If you're popular and not reaching out to those without friends, you're misusing your people skills. How can this change? 

Christianity is more important than anything. Grew up in Christian home. Tight-knit community of Christians, so it's integrated within me deeply. How can this change? I speculate about my faith. I have some of the deepest thoughts and some people have been genuinely scared for me and get very defensive when I tell them about my doubts and the reasons for them. Sometimes I feel like the only reason I am loyal to my faith is because of social pressures.

Disobeying authority is wrong. I wonder why people actually _like_ be rebellious. i.e. "this rule is dumb; therefore I will break it even though I don't particularly like it." 

*7. a) What about your personality most distinguishes you from everyone else? b) If you could change one thing about you personality, what would it be? Why?*

a) My intellectual thoughts. I've taken up studying psychology in the past year, particularly personality test (hence, this post). I enjoy sharing my observations of people's thoughts. I enjoy explaining a theological concept to someone in a way they've never heard it before (I am in a second-year at a private Bible school). 

*8. How do you treat hunches or gut feelings? In what situations are they most often triggered?*

Oh, I must've heard it somewhere. I'm usually right when I get a gut feeling, even when people contradict me. Its triggered when I'm conversing and someone says something not quite right about a topic I'm somewhat interested in.

*9. a) What activities energize you most? b) What activities drain you most? Why?*

Most--talking about the newest idea that's been floating about in my mind
Drain--when I'm around people who are extremely talkative. 

*10. What do you repress about your outward behavior or internal thought process when around others? Why?*

When someone is taking a long time saying something when I already get it. My mom repeats things over and over again, and this frustrates me because I get it the first time. Whenever I tell her she doesn't have to repeat herself, she'll emphasize the importance of repetition. Its just not worth the effort to tell someone to stop, it just creates conflict and does more harm in the long-run.
I don't usually tell someone when they're being socially unacceptable. I won't laugh at a crude joke, but I won't confront someone who does. Its better to tell someone in private that their jokes or attitude is wrong. I'll confront them then.

Fun test. Helped me dig into at least part of my personality.


----------



## NighTi (Jan 1, 2013)

@Couldbeworse. first of all, welcome to Personality Cafe. I'm glad you're here.

Second, I usually walk through these questionnaires one line at a time and record my impressions as I go, but there was something about your answer to the first question that led me to scan over the whole set. I'm glad I did because I was able to get a read on only one of your cognitive functions. That's not much material for coming up with a whole type. I could engage in some pretty wild speculation and use that one function to jump to a choice of two types, but I think that would do more harm than good. I'm not even going to name the one function just yet.

*Question 11*
Let's go back to the question about pictures and do another one. This time, take three minutes and record your thoughts as they occur, preferably in chronological order: Bristol, UK | Flickr - Photo Sharing! . Don't overthink this. Write down whatever pops into your mind.


*Question 12*


> I enjoy sharing my observations of people's thoughts. I enjoy explaining a theological concept to someone in a way they've never heard it before (I am in a second-year at a private Bible school).


Good. That's helpful. Could you pick some concept and explain it here? The concept itself doesn't matter. I would like to see how you explain something. I don't know if this will make you more comfortable or less, but I'm not a complete stranger to biblical theology.

*Question 13
*What is your major and why did you choose it?


----------



## Couldbeworse (Apr 25, 2013)

Thanks for going through it thus far NighTi. 

Question 11

Whoa, orange building. Cool colors, I like the contrasts. Two trees that don't have leaves. Maybe its winter there. But look at those green trees, never mind. They're pretty neat. The buildings on the left are square. Cars going by, looks like a little bit of contruction. I wouln't like to live there, looks too busy, not enough like the country. I wonder where this is. Don't know, guess it doesn't matter.

Question 12

Alright! Not sure where your background is. I'm from a conservative Lutheran church. Assc. Free Lutheran Church. Bible-based theology, avoiding the liberal side. It's nice. But here goes...this is something I read just a few hours ago that sparked my interest. Hadn't thought much on the subject before. Deuteronomy 1:16-18 
[SUP]
6 [/SUP]And I charged your judges at that time, “Hear the disputes between your people and judge fairly, whether the case is between two Israelites or between an Israelite and a foreigner residing among you. [SUP]17 [/SUP]Do not show partiality in judging; hear both small and great alike. Do not be afraid of anyone, for judgment belongs to God. Bring me any case too hard for you, and I will hear it.” [SUP]18 [/SUP]And at that time I told you everything you were to do.

Alright, great timing. A friend of mine just asked me, "Whatcha up to?" Perfect opportunity, I explained it to him this way. Paraphrasing of course, "Have you read Deuteronomy 1? Here's what it says. *Read it*. It seems that God put the judges in a place where He didn't have to intervene. He let the judge do his own thing. But he said He was there if the judge needed help, Moses would be there. Its an interesting balance.. It all ties into free will. God lets us do our own thing, but He's always there. He gives us the ability to do things and the leaders to accomplish, but we need God's help." Then he started talking about relying on God. I agreed with what he said, smiling and nodding. Then I got very excited about how cool it is. I started using bigger hand gestures like I often do when I'm explaining something like that. Then he told me how he should read more of the OT. I agreed, a lot of the OT seems foreign to me. Then we did some small talk. We talked about when we were going to meet for discipleship group. Then he said talk to you later, then I said goodbye. It was a nice chat.

Question 13
Right now I am undecided. The school I go to is unnacredited (only a few colleges accept the credits). Next year I am going for my generals at a community college. Get those out of the way. My options right now in order of interest are: teaching, theology, psychology. With any of these degrees I will probably go on to seminary to become a pastor. Teaching because I am able to understand ideas very well and convey them in a way people understand. (I am graduating validvictorian of my graduating class of about 40 and I got very exceptional remarks on all the sermons I've given in chapel and preaching class.) Theology because I just love Jesus and God's Word. It's my lifeblood, really. Psychology because I have a heightened interest in how people think, how people respond, and I have a fondness of talking people through their problems in such a way that they make their own decision and they are proactive about it. Why I'm going to seminary--I'm Bible smart. I'm people caring. I want the best for people's souls, I like to see people succeed. It would give me opportunity to teach.

Question 14--What does your typical day look like. I just thought this might be a good question.

8-12 Class
I sit and listen intently. I measure what the teacher says to see if its true. If I don't think it is, I'll search my mind for the arguments, counter-arguments, the evidence for, against. I usually don't speak up in class unless its something I really feel needs to be said. Between classes during my 10 and 20 min. breaks I usually don't know what to do with myself. I like to talk to someone about the class, but I'm afraid only one or two other people are willing to do that with me. I usually find a small errand like getting my mail or getting something from my room (my class and room are less than a minute's walking distance, small campus). I take class somewhat seriously, but I really enjoy my friend who sits in front of me who makes jokes that the teacher is talking about me when he's describing a person like the evil King Ahab. Haha.

12-1 Lunch
Standing in line is boring usually. I find it difficult to start talking to people because I'm usually racking my thoughts on something that happened in class. But when I start talking it gets easier. Small talk is nice while waiting in the lunch line. I scan the lunch tables for the most desirable table, picking one with at least one close friend. I like coming up with an odd question that'l identify something interesting about everybody. My recent one lately is, "If you had a week to yourself, what would you do?" I like sitting by people who turn on my "funny mode." My sense of humor usually involves a running joke from the table conversation, I try not to be offensive. If I'm not in funny mode I'll talk politely, laughing at other people's jokes, talk when I have something to add. Other times I'll sit in silence because the topic is of no interest to me, and I'll eat and leave as quickly as possible.

2-8 
Two jobs.

I'm a personal care assistant. I can't reveal much about what I do because its PHI, but I can give general details. I enjoy my work. I feel very much needed because I'm the only male figure in his life right now. He talks about me all the time to his family, asking when he'll see me next. I feel like I'm making a positive impact on his life, that's the best feeling ever. 

Second job, I'm a tutor. One of the students at my school has dyxslexia and cerebral palsy. He has difficulty reading, writing, and learning in general. My main job is to help him read, we take turns. I'm kind of my own supervisor which I really enjoy. We have a set schedule that we stick to, but I like being flexible so he has time to socialize spontaneously like going to Mall of America, which he likes to do with his friends. Its tough though because he cares so much about what I need--for instance, he'll want to cut our time short if I mention I have homework to do even though I insist I have enough time to do it later. I like treating him as an equal, making him decide how to go about an assignment or the schedule. 

8-11 Social time. Could range from talking with one of my close friends to going to playing frisbee or softball or volleyball. 


Here is the main reason I wonder about my personality--I used to work for Liberty Tax Service as a waver. You know, the guy who dresses up as Lady Liberty and waves at people. I would always go crazy dancing, acting, yelling at strangers. I loved it and was good at it too. I was the only waver my boss knew that ever got tips. I suppose this is the side of me I don't understand--how I go from being the intellectual to the entertainer. Dunno.

Well, that might be enough to go on. Thanks!


----------



## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

xNJF is my guess.

maybe an INFP.


----------



## Couldbeworse (Apr 25, 2013)

Makes sense. From what I've been understanding of the cognitive functions, I'm pretty sure I'm INFJ. Only two things are holding me back from stamping that on myself. 1. The rarity of INFJ's in males. 2. When I was younger I had a brain for math, still do which makes me think I could be INTP.


----------



## NighTi (Jan 1, 2013)

Couldbeworse said:


> Whoa, orange building. Cool colors, I like the contrasts.


Excellent response. It makes a fine entry point into a discussion about the cognitive functions. It's not just dry theory. If you understand the functions, you will know more than just your four-letter type. You will gain all kinds of insight into how your mind works and how other minds work differently.

You're a scholar so I'll slow it down a bit and cite my sources. The primary source is Psychological Types by Carl Jung (1921). Jung described the eight cognitive functions and laid the groundwork for later theorists to develop more detailed models. One of those models is the MBTI, developed over many years in parallel with Jung and described by Isabel Myers in Gifts Differing (1980). There has been some interesting work since then and I don't claim to know half of it, but I think those two books are good enough for our current discussion.

The model concerns the general modes by which you can gather and process information. The technical term for these modes is "cognitive functions." I like the word "modes," but you can also think of them as approaches or stances. Many people get tripped up and think of them as skills, but they're much more primitive and fundamental than that.

Your first reaction to the picture was "Orange!" This is exactly how someone operating in "extraverted sensing" (Se) mode would react. I need to be careful here. I'm not concluding that you actually use Se. I'm using it as an example of the sort of reaction we would expect someone who does use it. The model isn't about behavior. It's about cognition. You experience your own cognition. I can only gather hints of it from your behavior. This makes you the better judge. 

Extraverted sensing is one of the four "irrational" functions. There is no negative connotation here. Jung called them "irrational" because they are immediate and uncritical. They say things like "Orange!" That's an immediate sensory impression. There's no judgment to it. It's not "delightful orange" It's simply "orange." The irrational functions fall into two buckets: sensing and intuition. Sensing concerns impressions from the five senses. Intuition concerns impressions from the unconscious mind. In this case, the orange came from the picture and through your eyes. That is, it came from sensing rather than from intuition. Finally, all functions can take one of two attitudes: extraverted or introverted. Extraverted functions are objective. They point at the outside world (or what we understand to be the outside world). Introverted functions are subjective. They point back at you. Because the orange is in the outside world and stays there, the attitude is extraverted.

If you're following this discussion closely, you'll notice that the model is structured around three pairs of opposites:
Irrational vs. Rational
Introverted vs. Extraverted
If Irrational, Sensing vs. Intuition. If Rational, Feeling vs. Thinking.

This structure generates two to the third power possibilities. Those are the eight cognitive functions. Configured according to some specific patterns, those eight cognitive functions become the sixteen MBTI types. More on that later. Let's get back to you. So far, we have a hint of extraverted sensing (Se). 



> Two trees that don't have leaves. Maybe its winter there. But look at those green trees, never mind.


You start with an observation and you ask a question. This is a switch from irrational to rational. Irrational functions don't ask questions. They simply perceive. In this case, it's a rational question about mechanics: why don't the trees have leaves? I'm going to dwell on this for a moment because it represents choices between opposites. Instead of asking the question, you could have perceived some more, You chose Rational over Irrational. Instead of asking a question about mechanics, you could have asked one about values, like "how do I feel about trees with no leaves?" You chose Thinking over Feeling. Thinking is all about mechanics. What causes leaves to fall from trees? How many teeth do beavers have? Do all triangles have angles that add up to 180 degrees? By contrast, Feeling is about values. Would it be appropriate to plant maple trees on this street? Do beavers have rights? Do triangular or rectangular sandwich slices look better on this plate? 

Like the irrational functions, the rational functions can be extraverted or introverted. The difference is how they focus. Extraverted thinking (Te) focuses on mechanics in the world (facts/data/experimentation). Introverted thinking (Ti) focuses on mechanics in the mind (logic/reason). Extraverted feeling (Fe) focuses on externally defined values (family, church, school, television). Introverted feeling (Fi) focuses on internally defined values ("that's just how I feel about it").

Here's where the distinction between skills and functions becomes critical. Everyone can experiment. Everyone can reason. Everyone gets taught that kicking other children is "wrong." Everyone likes ice cream. Well, nearly everyone, but that's the point. You get to decide what you like.

A cognitive function is deeper and more primitive than these things. It's the path your mind consisetently follows when other paths could also do the job. It's choosing to ask "why don't the trees have leaves" rather than asking "how do I feel about naked trees" or shifting to some other part of the picture. 



> They're pretty neat.


Now you're back to feeling. Do you see how this game works? I need to take a break, but I've written quite a bit already so I'll pause to see if you (or anyone else) would like to comment. If not, I'll press onward soon.


----------



## Couldbeworse (Apr 25, 2013)

Ok, so if I observe my initial reactions to an event, that will be an indicator of my personality type? That analysis is actually quite helpful. I've been digging into the cognitive functions for the past month or so. I find it much easier to figure out other's types than my own because I see instances where I use the functions. Maybe if I give my own descriptions of the functions in myself, we can weed out my misunderstandings.

Te--I have a tendency to think I'm right, you're wrong. Prideful. I explain what I know often in a logical sequence, using the technical side to explain something. Although, I'm not much of a planner or organizer. I only take the initiative if no one else is or I don't expect the people I'm around to take the initiative.

Ti--Math comes easy to me. Science is fairly easy too. I'm good at taking everything someone has said and defining it with one sentence.

Fi--I have strong values for the bullied. Just tonight I witnessed the most heartless put-down. I was teaching Vacation Bible School and one of the other leaders was leading a Jeopardy type game. Ethan got up for the first couple questions, but wasn't called on. When he got up the third time and was very eager to answer. Zack just told him, "Ethan, you can sit down." I felt horrible and instinctively tucked my head in between my knees. 

Fe--I like to be an encourager--laughing at people's jokes, being polite, and talking with friends that I haven't talked to in a while.

Ne--I can bounce from one thing to another. I'll be talking about something or hearing someone talk about something, then it'll remind me of something that happened earlier in the day, week. I'll go from one thing to another, only talking about one thing for a minute or two at a time.

Ni--I contemplate the complexities of life a lot. My obsession with this is certainly Ni, I absolutely cannot understand it. I was on a juggling kick last year. All of a sudden my interest disappeared and I only pick them up when someone asks me to. 

Se--I'm an athlete. I enjoy running, ultimate frisbee, volleyball, basketball, golf, anything really. Although, its not necessary for me to do something with my hands to understand it.

Si--I like obeying authority. Although, I hate the nitty-gritty details.


----------



## NighTi (Jan 1, 2013)

@Couldbeworse, you're in the neighborhood but I'm afraid you've been contaminated by Internet rubbish. You've got the cognitive functions mixed up with MBTI/Keirsey stereotypes. You're far from alone.

The functions are very fundamental/basic/primitive. They're limited to cognition: how you gather and process information. They have nothing to say about your athletic ability. They're also stark choices between opposites. As you embrace one, you repress its opposites. My dominant function is introverted intuition (Ni), so I've essentially lost contact with extraverted intuition (Ne) and introverted sensing (Si). I can recite their textbook definitions, but I don't consciously experience them at all. Remember that the functions are not skills. They're primitive modes of gathering and processing information.

In a nutshell:

IRRATIONAL
Se: Perceiving an external object through sensory impressions
Si: Perceiving internal representations of sensory impressions
Ne: Perceiving unconscious impressions about an external object
Ni: Perceiving unconscious impressions about internal thoughts and ideas

RATIONAL
Te: Using the external objects to label, categorize, organize, and decide
Ti: Using internal structures to label, categorize, organize, and decide
Fe: Using an external values system to label, categorize, organize, and decide
Fi: Using an internal values system to label, categorize, organize, and decide

These are gross simplifications but I think they capture the essence. Notice how they're all limited to gathering and processing information and how they stand in tension with one another. That tension is critical to understanding the theory. Te and Ti can't both exist in consciousness. They violently oppose one another, and one or the other must be repressed.

I apologize, but I'm out of time again. I'm trying my best to play catch-up.


----------



## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

Couldbeworse said:


> Ok, so if I observe my initial reactions to an event, that will be an indicator of my personality type? That analysis is actually quite helpful. I've been digging into the cognitive functions for the past month or so. I find it much easier to figure out other's types than my own because I see instances where I use the functions. Maybe if I give my own descriptions of the functions in myself, we can weed out my misunderstandings.
> 
> Te--I have a tendency to think I'm right, you're wrong. Prideful. I explain what I know often in a logical sequence, using the technical side to explain something. Although, I'm not much of a planner or organizer. I only take the initiative if no one else is or I don't expect the people I'm around to take the initiative.
> 
> ...


Your Se example sucks. Your Fi example really sucks. You said you have a tendency to think you are right and others are wrong. IF you had even a modicum of Fi, you would KNOW you are always right and never question it. In your example where the teacher told the kid to sit down, the teacher had Fi. He KNEW he was right, and didnt' want to hear the kid. 

I really think you are STRONG Fe. ENFJ's, especially male, turn to sports. THey use sports to rebuild as they have no internal framework in order to rebuild themselves if things go horribly wrong emotionally. My son is ENFJ, and I see it in him. He gets knocked off center emotionally, and has a hell of a time recovering. Sports allows him to find happiness external to him, which he can internalize.

I still say INFJ or ENFJ.


----------



## NighTi (Jan 1, 2013)

@drmiller100 reaches conclusions much faster than I do. l am playing Beat the Clock for much of today but don't want to let this thread hang too longer either.


----------



## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

NighTi said:


> @_drmiller100_ reaches conclusions much faster than I do. l am playing Beat the Clock for much of today but don't want to let this thread hang too longer either.


a fundamental difference between how we operate. I make a conclusion, then debate or argue or discuss to see if it is correct. It is easier to make a conclusion then see how correct it is then change it.

an INFJ, and most other J's IMO, don't like to make decisions until they have thought it through. Then the decision is "done", and they are reluctant to re-examine the decision. 
Makes things awkward when my "guess/decision" is wrong. Fe/J people are uncomfortable pointing things out. For us Ti/Fe people we are happy to point out perceived errors in search of "truth".

'tis all good.


----------



## Couldbeworse (Apr 25, 2013)

Thanks for the help guys. I really appreciate it. Also, thanks for the objective criticism. Although, I was hoping you could emphasize both what I got right and what I got wrong. I fully realized that a lot of the stuff I was typing was incorrect, intending that you'd humor me.

I think you're right drmiller about INFJ. That's the conclusion I had come up with before I found this site. I've done some research and yeah, I've found that the Myers-Briggs tests and descriptions are worth less than a nickel. I wonder which sites are reliable. intuitivetime on youtube? Socionics? What are the good sources?

Also, I still have a few more questions. When I was a young lad I had an interest in math. I was good at it too, still am. However, that was influenced by my older brother and sister who taught me math and gave me an advantage over my classmates. Could that be me developing my Ti or is that just external factors. Can you develop a tertiary function that young? 

Thanks for the analysis drmiller. And I'm still waiting in anticipation for NighTi's thoughts. You seem like a real bright person.


----------



## Ellis Bell (Mar 16, 2012)

drmiller100 said:


> Your Se example sucks. Your Fi example really sucks. You said you have a tendency to think you are right and others are wrong. IF you had even a modicum of Fi, you would KNOW you are always right and never question it. In your example where the teacher told the kid to sit down, the teacher had Fi. He KNEW he was right, and didnt' want to hear the kid.
> 
> I really think you are STRONG Fe. ENFJ's, especially male, turn to sports. THey use sports to rebuild as they have no internal framework in order to rebuild themselves if things go horribly wrong emotionally. My son is ENFJ, and I see it in him. He gets knocked off center emotionally, and has a hell of a time recovering. Sports allows him to find happiness external to him, which he can internalize.
> 
> I still say INFJ or ENFJ.


Yes, even @Coouldbeworse's behavior in his example for Fi was more Fe than not.


----------



## NighTi (Jan 1, 2013)

For what it's worth, I haven't reached any kind of conclusion. @drmiller100 may be onto something about a reluctance to jump. It's certainly true in my case, and I've noticed a tension with my wife who has auxiliary Ne. Ne feels hyperactive to me. Recall that I'm an Ni dominant, so I repress Ne strongly.

Let's press onward.



Couldbeworse said:


> The buildings on the left are square. Cars going by, looks like a little bit of contruction.


More extraverted sensing. There is no reference to yourself.



> I wouln't like to live there, looks too busy, not enough like the country.


Now you refer to yourself, and you switch from Se to some kind of Feeling judgment. It's not clear to me whether it's Fe or Fi. It really depends on whether the standards (busy is bad, country is good) come from an extrnal source or an internal one.



> I wonder where this is. Don't know,


Thinking. The answer to your question is in the title. I wonder why you didn't notice. We can learn a lot about ourselves by what we notice and what we don't. Perhaps this is a (weak) indicator of Ti over Te. Someone with Te would have been more inclined to follow the question up with an investigation.



> guess it doesn't matter.


Feeling. 




> Alright! Not sure where your background is. I'm from a conservative Lutheran church. Assc. Free Lutheran Church. Bible-based theology, avoiding the liberal side.


Since we're exchanging business cards, I'm a Reformed Baptist, also very traditional and conservative. 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia . "Reformed" stands in contrast to "Free." Church names advertise our theological distinctives. That could be a fun discussion for another place and another time.



> Alright, great timing. A friend of mine just asked me, "Whatcha up to?" Perfect opportunity, I explained it to him this way. Paraphrasing of course, "Have you read Deuteronomy 1? Here's what it says. *Read it*. It seems that God put the judges in a place where He didn't have to intervene. He let the judge do his own thing. But he said He was there if the judge needed help, Moses would be there. Its an interesting balance.. It all ties into free will. God lets us do our own thing, but He's always there. He gives us the ability to do things and the leaders to accomplish, but we need God's help."


You just had to go there. Didn't you? That's the "Free" distinctive to which I referred earlier. Nevermind that, however. The subject at hand is cognitive functions. For an explantion, it doesn't do much explaining. There's no structure. There's no argument. It's more of an interpretation without any explicit support. One might even use a fancy word that I'm sure you know: "exposition." That's what preachers do from the pulpit.

If you're a Ti user, you don't show it much. Ti may appear in your cognitive function layout somewhere, but probably not in the dominant spot.

At the risk of following another bunny trail, I started noticing about ten years ago that I was much better at teaching (exegesis) than at preaching (exposition). I think it's my Ti coming out. I have an uncontrollable urge to define, structure, explain, and support. You probably see it in this thread. That sort of thing doesn't work so well from the pulpit.



> Then he started talking about relying on God. I agreed with what he said, smiling and nodding. Then I got very excited about how cool it is. I started using bigger hand gestures like I often do when I'm explaining something like that.


I have a strong hunch that this is extraverted feeling (Fe). Others may find this a subtle point, but it struck me because I (auxiliary Fe) do the same thing. It has to do with sharing values ("how cool it is"). Just yesterday, I got animated during a business discussion about focusing on the value chain. The value chain is a mechanical concept, but I was preaching about the glory of providing customers with better stuff for less money. It's not the mechanics that excite me. It's how the mechanics help people. That seems to be exactly what you were doing in a different context.



> Then he told me how he should read more of the OT. I agreed, a lot of the OT seems foreign to me. Then we did some small talk. We talked about when we were going to meet for discipleship group. Then he said talk to you later, then I said goodbye. It was a nice chat.


OT = "Old Testament" (for those following at home). Your approach is definitely Fe. You tune in to external values sources. You're also a broadcaster.



> Teaching because I am able to understand ideas very well and convey them in a way people understand.





> (I am graduating validvictorian of my graduating class of about 40 and I got very exceptional remarks on all the sermons I've given in chapel and preaching class.)


I wonder what an invalid Victorian might look like.

Note the reliance on the opinions of others.



> I have a fondness of talking people through their problems in such a way that they make their own decision and they are proactive about it. Why I'm going to seminary--I'm Bible smart. I'm people caring. I want the best for people's souls, I like to see people succeed. It would give me opportunity to teach.


I'll come out and say it now. "Fe" was the one function I read in your answer to Spades's questionnaire. It comes out strongly here as well.


So what do we have? A little Se, a little T with an attitude that I can't quite nail down, and a lot of Fe. By the book, the functions work in extraverted/introverted pairs of opposites. So if you use Se, then you also use Ni. If use Fe, you also use Ti. How about order? Fe comes out the strongest by far. If we take this to its logical conclusion, you're an Fe dominant. Add the Se/Ni pair and you're an ENFJ.

Dominant: Extraverted feeling (Fe)
Auxiliary: Introverted intuition (Ni)
Tertiary: Extraverted sensing (Se)
Inferior: Introverted thinking (Ti)

I'm not totally comfortable with this because I don't see the Ni, but it's not uncommon for extraverts to hide (or even deny) their auxiliary functions.

What do those four positions mean? Here's the brief run-down:

Dominant: the function that you use most of the time and with which you feel the most comfortable. Take the word "dominant" literally. Have you learned any Latin? 
If your cognitive wiring were a solar system, your dominant function would be the sun. It dwarfs the other functions and they are stuck in its orbit.

Auxiliary: a compliment to the dominant. It supplies what the dominant can not, and acts in the dominant's service. If your dominant is rational, it will be irrational. If your dominant is extraverted, it will be introverted. 

Tertiary: an incomplete alternative to the auxiliary which appears "later in life."

Inferior: the dark shadow of the dominant. It's the opposite side of the same coin. It dwells on the boundary between conscious and unconscious where it receives little attention or exercise. It can play a healthy balancing role when the dominant gets out of control, but it can also attempt a hostile takeover when the dominant is weak or confused.

My best guess at th is time: ENFJ. What do you think?


----------



## NighTi (Jan 1, 2013)

Addendum: I'd also seriously consider ESFJ (FeSiNeTi). My case for Se was weak, and there was no Ni to be seen. Maybe the "weak Se" is actually Si.


----------



## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

NighTi said:


> Addendum: I'd also seriously consider ESFJ (FeSiNeTi). My case for Se was weak, and there was no Ni to be seen. Maybe the "weak Se" is actually Si.


I didn't see much of a case for inferior Ti (aka. the very well known "guilt trip").
Truth is tho, there wasn't much information at all, a lot was just based around his belief system which by itself would make it sound like there's more Fe than there actually is.



> 4. On the drive back, your friends are talking. A friend makes a claim that clashes with your current beliefs. What is your inward reaction? What do you outwardly say?
> 
> Inward reaction--Bummer that my friend thinks that way. I wonder what his/her background is that makes them think that way.
> Outwardly say--I'd probe for more information on their belief. I'd find the hole then explain to them what I believe.


This for example is clear Fe and Ti, but the latter part looks like TiFe and not FeTi.


> Outwardly say--I'd probe for more information on their belief. I'd find the hole then explain to them what I believe.


Don't know what he means with "the hole" tho (if that refers to a lacking factual foundation or a pause in the explanation Hard to tell in this context.).
There seem to be more focus tho on the dissection of the belief than the actual discussion surrounding it.

Also, @_Couldbeworse_.
2 things
1. It is generally a good idea to avoid discussing religious beliefs when doing the questionnaires since they are an external framework and will make you seem to use Fe more than you actually might do.
2. Religion is a belief and not a value. Question 6 of Spade's questionnaire asks for values. Even if your values are based on your belief, it would be good thing defining them since not everyone has read the bible or want to etc.
Definition of value in Oxford Dictionaries (British & World English) (principles or standards of behaviour; one’s judgement of what is important in life)
Definition of belief in Oxford Dictionaries (British & World English)


----------



## NighTi (Jan 1, 2013)

I almost left this one hanging.



Couldbeworse said:


> Also, I still have a few more questions. When I was a young lad I had an interest in math. I was good at it too, still am. However, that was influenced by my older brother and sister who taught me math and gave me an advantage over my classmates. Could that be me developing my Ti or is that just external factors. Can you develop a tertiary function that young?


Remember that cognitive functions are not skills. Anyone can be good at math, or even enjoy it. I know an INFP with a Ph.D in chemical engineering who can write better C++ code in a drunken stupor than I can while wide awake. Yes, it's true that people who score N and T on MBTI tests gravitate toward science and engineering in disproportionate numbers, but let's not confuse statistical correlation with individual destiny. People who score S and F also land in the sciences and some of them do quite well. I've found that a diversity of perspectives makes my teams stronger. 

In other words, I wouldn't read too much into your early interest in math.

Regarding tertiary functions, Myers doesn't give an exact age but I think she's thinking along the lines of 40. It can emerge at a younger age, but Lenore Thomson cautions that it can form an unhealthy bond with the dominant if it emerges before the auxiliary grows strong enough to maintain its position. Because the dominant and the tertiary have the same attitude, they can conspire to bypass the auxiliary. The result is unbalanced extraversion or introversion. It's ugly.


----------



## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

Couldbeworse said:


> Thanks for the help guys. I really appreciate it. Also, thanks for the objective criticism. Although, I was hoping you could emphasize both what I got right and what I got wrong. I fully realized that a lot of the stuff I was typing was incorrect, intending that you'd humor me.
> 
> I think you're right drmiller about INFJ. That's the conclusion I had come up with before I found this site. I've done some research and yeah, I've found that the Myers-Briggs tests and descriptions are worth less than a nickel. I wonder which sites are reliable. intuitivetime on youtube? Socionics? What are the good sources?
> 
> ...


there are several brilliant INFJ's on this site who despise MBTi and really like socionics. 

i barely struggle to understand MBTi - it is a struggle for me, but worthwhile and it works for me.


----------



## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

NighTi said:


> Addendum: I'd also seriously consider ESFJ (FeSiNeTi). My case for Se was weak, and there was no Ni to be seen. Maybe the "weak Se" is actually Si.


No way. He has N all over everything. The whole DISCUSSION is N.
teaching, theology, psychology are his interests.

N N N

I'm buying Ni - he seems like he can stick to something longer than me..... I'm outta here - shiny object!


----------



## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

NighTi said:


> Lenore Thomson cautions that it can form an unhealthy bond with the dominant if it emerges before the auxiliary grows strong enough to maintain its position. Because the dominant and the tertiary have the same attitude, they can conspire to bypass the auxiliary. The result is unbalanced extraversion or introversion. It's ugly.


Shouldn't take her word for it. Talked to her a few days ago and she's not really a person with an impressive understanding (she sees herself as a true Jungian rather than someone who believes in MBTI) of MBTI.



drmiller100 said:


> No way. He has N all over everything. The whole DISCUSSION is N.
> teaching, theology, psychology are his interests.
> 
> N N N
> ...


Thats a really weak argument for intuition. (I'm not denying the possibility of him being an intuitive, just find this to be a really weak argument for it.)

Teaching - just as likely a sensor as an intuitive.
Theology - He has a religious belief and has nothing to do with MBTI.
Psychology - Isn't necessarily an intuitive thing, one of my professors is for example an ISTJ psychologist.


----------



## Couldbeworse (Apr 25, 2013)

drmiller100 said:


> No way. He has N all over everything. The whole DISCUSSION is N.
> teaching, theology, psychology are his interests.
> 
> N N N
> ...


Yeah, I see Ni is dominant in myself. My every thought last night coming into this morning has been observing people's behavior around typology theory. I usually have my 2 or 3 special conversation topics at one time. I find that talking about them is just another way to retreat into the recesses of my mind to discover the truth. I talked for an hour with an INTP last night about psychology. Even when we were jumping topic to topic: from the sociological response of homosexuality to overpopulation to flying under the radar of authority to get what you want to the roles of men and women in marriage, through all this I connected everything to the MBTI in my mind and pointed out when his personality was coming out as Ti Ne.


----------



## NighTi (Jan 1, 2013)

I still don't buy it. Mind you, I'm not the one who needs to be sold. Nevertheless, your post about Ni "dominance" is not about Ni at all. Ni is an irrational function. It's a constant stream of impressions without an obvious source. They're seemingly irrelevant, have no regard for sensibility or decorum, and can be outright bizarre. Do you remember my one-sentence question about invalid Victorians? That's (filtered) Ni in action. Ni needs the supervision of a rational function. Otherwise, it will land you in the Big House or the loony bin. One telltale sign of Ni dominance is recognizing the need to keep it under wraps. Most of my inner world is totally inappropriate to share with anyone else, mainly because it wouldn't make sense. 

Ni dominants are sometimes characterized as "seers." That's because we have learned to discriminate. If we don't learn, they call us stark raving mad instead. Jung's description of the "introverted intuitive" type captures this quite well. It's all torn clothes, unkept beards and spittle. That's what Ni looks like when it's allowed to get out in public unsupervised. INFJs use Fe to keep it clean and groomed. INTJs use Te for the same purpose. 



Couldbeworse said:


> My every thought last night coming into this morning has been observing people's behavior around typology theory.


That's the application of a theory to data. If it's evidence of a function at all, it's Thinking, not iNtuition.



> I usually have my 2 or 3 special conversation topics at one time. I find that talking about them is just another way to retreat into the recesses of my mind to discover the truth.


I'm not sure what you mean here, but it also looks like activity appropriate for a Rational function. You're processing and planning.



> I talked for an hour with an INTP last night about psychology. Even when we were jumping topic to topic: from the sociological response of homosexuality to overpopulation to flying under the radar of authority to get what you want to the roles of men and women in marriage, through all this I connected everything to the MBTI in my mind and pointed out when his personality was coming out as Ti Ne.


Again, this is all processing. Intuition can play a role in conversations like this, but it's not necessary.

Please don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying that you don't use Ni. I'm saying that your post shows a mental model which does not match Jung's.


----------



## Couldbeworse (Apr 25, 2013)

> I still don't buy it. Mind you, I'm not the one who needs to be sold.


Selling you will insure that I have it right. 



> Nevertheless, your post about Ni "dominance" is not about Ni at all. Ni is an irrational function. It's a constant stream of impressions without an obvious source. They're seemingly irrelevant, have no regard for sensibility or decorum, and can be outright bizarre. Do you remember my one-sentence question about invalid Victorians? That's (filtered) Ni in action. Ni needs the supervision of a rational function. Otherwise, it will land you in the Big House or the loony bin. One telltale sign of Ni dominance is recognizing the need to keep it under wraps. Most of my inner world is totally inappropriate to share with anyone else, mainly because it wouldn't make sense.
> 
> Ni dominants are sometimes characterized as "seers." That's because we have learned to discriminate. If we don't learn, they call us stark raving mad instead. Jung's description of the "introverted intuitive" type captures this quite well. It's all torn clothes, unkept beards and spittle. That's what Ni looks like when it's allowed to get out in public unsupervised. INFJs use Fe to keep it clean and groomed. INTJs use Te for the same purpose.


Okay. I see what you're getting at. Ni is seeing patterns and connecting ideas, right? So, Ni is primarily subconscious, right? It is then filtered by my Fe. When my Fe has been doing its job then I'll go into my Ti, right? So first I am observing Mr. INTP, going through all the possibilities of what he's saying and who he is, not necessarily making sense. Then I try my best to build up rapport with him by agreeing with what he says and being nice about it. On the furthest level, I am trying to make sense of this idea through my Ni but I am trying to filter it through my tertiary, Ti. I guess that's what I was explaining...but at the heart of it my Ni was always at work, you just can't really see it?

I have to go, I wish I could research this more right now but maybe I got it right this time, who knows. 


That's the application of a theory to data. If it's evidence of a function at all, it's Thinking, not iNtuition.



I'm not sure what you mean here, but it also looks like activity appropriate for a Rational function. You're processing and planning.



Again, this is all processing. Intuition can play a role in conversations like this, but it's not necessary.

Please don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying that you don't use Ni. I'm saying that your post shows a mental model which does not match Jung's.


----------



## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Couldbeworse said:


> Okay. I see what you're getting at. Ni is seeing patterns and connecting ideas, right? So, Ni is primarily subconscious, right? It is then filtered by my Fe. When my Fe has been doing its job then I'll go into my Ti, right? So first I am observing Mr. INTP, going through all the possibilities of what he's saying and who he is, not necessarily making sense. Then I try my best to build up rapport with him by agreeing with what he says and being nice about it. On the furthest level, I am trying to make sense of this idea through my Ni but I am trying to filter it through my tertiary, Ti. I guess that's what I was explaining...but at the heart of it my Ni was always at work, you just can't really see it?


Listening to someone by not outright denying their claim doesn't mean that you are a strong Fe user.

*If* you are a Ni dom, then you got Se inferior so can you make a valid point as to why you think your Se is inferior?


----------



## NighTi (Jan 1, 2013)

@Couldbeworse, I appreciate your desire to learn.



Couldbeworse said:


> Ni is seeing patterns and connecting ideas, right?


Sort of, but it's immediate and primitive, like the "orange!" in your response to the second picture. There is no deliberation. There is no network of ideas. It's an impression that mysteriously appears out of nowhere. Of course, it doesn't really come from nowhere. It comes from a past sensation buried in the unconscious. According to Jung, Ni types can't see the source because doing do would require Si which we repress violently. For Si types, it's the reverse. They can see the source but not its output. 

The embracing/repressing dynamic might be the most important building block of the whole system. From discussions here, it seems that it's also a difficult concept for many to understand or believe. According to Jung, when you embrace Ni, you repress Si and Ne. That means forcing them deep into the unconscious where you can't reach them. They're gone. The perspective that they might have provided is also gone. The functions don't live on a carousel. You can't spin them around and pick one that seems appropriate for a given situation. Instead, you have one dominant function in which you are fixed most of the time. You also have limited access to one or two other functions which your dominant can tolerate, but nearly always in a manner that suits the dominant. My (auxiliary) experience of Fe is nowhere near as rich or pure as an ENFJ's experience of Fe. Everything that I know about Fe is colored by dominant Ni. Similarly, my tertiary Ti, freakishly overdeveloped though it may be, still operates in the service of Ni. I'll never experience Ti the way that an INTP does.



> So, Ni is primarily subconscious, right? It is then filtered by my Fe.


It depends on how your cognitive functions are arranged. If you're an INFJ, Ni commands the dominant position. It can use Fe as a filter, but that's its prerogative. If you're an ENFJ, Fe commands the dominant position. It can filter auxiliary Ni or ignore it. Either way, you can end up filtering Ni through Fe, but the dynamic changes greatly depending on which is in charge. 

How conscious Ni is depends on its position. That's true for all of the functions. The dominant is the most conscious, and the inferior is the least. The auxiliary and tertiary lie somewhere in between. As you mature, your less conscious functions emerge into consciousness. It's a steep grade, however. Dominant is very dominant. Inferior is barely conscious. Everything beyond the inferior dwells in deep darkness.

Ni can be confusing because it's a window to the unconscious, but itself may be either conscious or unconscious just like any other function. Your television can display images of coral reefs while remaining perfectly dry.




> When my Fe has been doing its job then I'll go into my Ti, right?


Not so fast. Function order matters a lot

_Tertiary Ti_ (INFJ, ISFJ)
Even Myers is a bit cagey about tertiary functions. They don't appear at all until "later in life." Your tertiary can come out early. Mine did around age 20, but only after an improbable series of traumas and coincidences followed by formal training in philosophy. Even then, I struggled with an unhealthy Ni/Ti loop until I was nearly 30. Others report similar early tertiary experiences but I'd hardly call it the norm.

_Inferior Ti_ (ENFJ, ESFJ)
If Ti is your inferior function, it's the dark shadow of your dominant. It dwells on the edge of consciousness and makes an appearance when something goes wrong with your dominant. Thoughts don't bounce from dominant to auxiliary to inferior. They belong to the dominant which can then farm them out to the auxiliary (or perhaps tertiary). The dominant barely tolerates the inferior's existence and certainly wouldn't consider asking it for an opinion.

Remember that functions are not skills. Just because you're using logic, you can't conclude that you're working from a Ti perspective. Fe dominants generally learn proper grammar and can be perfectly logical and reasonable. Logic and reason are skills which anyone can learn. Ti is a function which constrains your cognitive traffic to certain pathways. _Using_ a skill does not reveal a cognitive function. _Choosing_ to use one skill over another _may_ reveal a cognitive function.


----------



## Couldbeworse (Apr 25, 2013)

Acerbusvenator said:


> Listening to someone by not outright denying their claim doesn't mean that you are a strong Fe user.
> 
> *If* you are a Ni dom, then you got Se inferior so can you make a valid point as to why you think your Se is inferior?


I can spend an hour looking at a blank wall while letting my thoughts flow to wherever they may. The only time I do sports or anything out of the ordinary is because my friends invite me. That can be explained by Fe. 




NighTi said:


> I appreciate your desire to learn


I appreciate your desire to teach.



> It depends on how your cognitive functions are arranged. If you're an INFJ, Ni commands the dominant position. It can use Fe as a filter, but that's its prerogative. If you're an ENFJ, Fe commands the dominant position. It can filter auxiliary Ni or ignore it. Either way, you can end up filtering Ni through Fe, but the dynamic changes greatly depending on which is in charge. _Tertiary Ti_ (INFJ, ISFJ)
> Even Myers is a bit cagey about tertiary functions. They don't appear at all until "later in life." Your tertiary can come out early. Mine did around age 20, but only after an improbable series of traumas and coincidences followed by formal training in philosophy. Even then, I struggled with an unhealthy Ni/Ti loop until I was nearly 30. Others report similar early tertiary experiences but I'd hardly call it the norm.
> 
> _Inferior Ti_ (ENFJ, ESFJ)
> ...


Yeah, the reason I mentioned it is because I think my Ti is developing. What kind of problems did it cause for you?


----------



## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Couldbeworse said:


> I can spend an hour looking at a blank wall while letting my thoughts flow to wherever they may. The only time I do sports or anything out of the ordinary is because my friends invite me. That can be explained by Fe.


That's not inferior anything.

For the record, I wouldn't be able to spend hours looking at a blank wall because my brain would determine that there's nothing more to observe.


----------



## NighTi (Jan 1, 2013)

@Couldbeworse, check this thead out:

http://personalitycafe.com/cognitive-functions/93074-misconceptions-tertiary-function.html

I'll write about my personal Ti journey a little later, but I think you should hear from more than just me.


----------



## Couldbeworse (Apr 25, 2013)

Acerbusvenator said:


> That's not inferior anything.
> 
> For the record, I wouldn't be able to spend hours looking at a blank wall because my brain would determine that there's nothing more to observe.


I'm not observing the wall, I'm thinking deeply about my life. Isn't that extremely Ni?

*"Ni* is the creation of mental imagery independent of outer stimuli. Ni generates abstract structural images of a given problem domain that a person can view from different points of view at will. Ni focuses on the structure of things from a timeless point of view."



NighTi said:


> check this thead out:
> 
> 
> I'll write about my personal Ti journey a little later, but I think you should hear from more than just me.


Hm...the article helped but it didn't solve my problem. How long does a tertiary function take to develop? Is it a long, drawn-out process?


----------



## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Couldbeworse said:


> I'm not observing the wall, I'm thinking deeply about my life. Isn't that extremely Ni?


Sounds actually more like Si if anything. Also, all types think about their life and it's not a Ni thing.
The thing you shared is a common misconception.

Intuition is a perceiving function, I suppose you could say that intuition is like your eyes and like your eyes it observes a certain spectrum of things. It does not judge, it can only see. Just like the sensory functions then it doesn't judge, just perceives.

But to be more exact, the sensory functions is the one that observes things in your world and intuition is the function that connects those things. Ni introverts that process and Ne extroverts the process.
Problem with strong intuition is that as you focus more on the connections of things than the things themselves, details become blurry and it's easy to miss details. For example, if I were to write a speech pointing down everything you do wrong, intuition tells you that I am offending you, even if I might just do it out of a constructive sense and if I asked what I said that offended you, you wouldn't be able to point at anything specific, but merely state that it as a whole was offensive. Because you saw the connection and not the words themselves.

With that as well, Ni doms got problems outside those things with sensations because like Jung says about Ni doms:


> The unconscious personality may, therefore, best be described as an extraverted sensation-type of a rather low and primitive order. Impulsiveness and unrestraint are the characters of this sensation, combined with an extraordinary dependence upon the sense impression.


I always mentally compare it with a caveman level of control over sensual desires.

My ISTJ father has many times commented on my inability for self-restraint (I could spend the entire night before a test playing games when I was younger and then realize the same day as the test or right before I was going to sleep that I don't know much about the things we were gonna get a test about and sit and panic study the same day as the test.) because to him it's so alien that someone just can't stop themselves.

I know that is a common thing for teenage guys, but there's a difference between lazy and basically incapable of self-restraint. If anything, when I get stressed I get even more unproductive and might sit and overeat while playing something that really requires concentration just so that I get my mind of being stressed and why.
The only reason I would sit and panic study was because the panic became too strong for my inferior sensation to be able to distract me.
The last exam I had, I started to work at 6 pm the day before the exam and the exam was at 8 am the next day.


----------



## Couldbeworse (Apr 25, 2013)

Acerbusvenator said:


> Sounds actually more like Si if anything. Also, all types think about their life and it's not a Ni thing.
> The thing you shared is a common misconception.
> 
> Intuition is a perceiving function, I suppose you could say that intuition is like your eyes and like your eyes it observes a certain spectrum of things. It does not judge, it can only see. Just like the sensory functions then it doesn't judge, just perceives.
> ...


Hm...I know I'm Ni, but I'm not sure how to get it across. It really bothers me that I can't communicate it effectively. Earlier today I was studying for a final and came across the Emergent Church. I then related how certain MBTI types would fit into the Emergent Church. Making connections from two seemingly unrelated topics. This is what I meant when I said I think about my life. Is this Ni?


----------



## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Couldbeworse said:


> Hm...I know I'm Ni, but I'm not sure how to get it across. It really bothers me that I can't communicate it effectively. Earlier today I was studying for a final and came across the Emergent Church. I then related how certain MBTI types would fit into the Emergent Church. Making connections from two seemingly unrelated topics. This is what I meant when I said I think about my life. Is this Ni?


It is intuition in general I suppose, but it doesn't scream strong intuition. And not really any specific form of intuition.

This I wrote is the more reliance of strong intuition:


> For example, if I were to write a speech pointing down everything you do wrong, intuition tells you that I am offending you, even if I might just do it out of a constructive sense and if I asked what I said that offended you, you wouldn't be able to point at anything specific, but merely state that it as a whole was offensive. Because you saw the connection and not the words themselves.


All functions are put against each other and if you are an INJ then as you have the strongest preference for intuition then you will almost dismiss details completely as irrelevant to the whole.

From my example, it doesn't matter that I don't directly say "you are stupid" or such, but it is the context that is being focused on and the way it was written etc. An ESP for example would have been confused if the roles were reversed and you took offence because they are as likely to dismiss connections as irrelevant as you are with details as an intuitive.

You couldn't really miss it either if you got strong intuition. I've been in loads of situations with sensors or even other intuitives in which they've said something that offended me and they can't understand how because there's no factual details, but rather a connection of all components put together.


----------



## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

This is a part of Naomi Quenk's definition of Se doms:


> Extraverted Sensing types are typically out “in the world.”They experience sensory data from the environment purely and directly. At their best, they can cut to the heart of a situation and implement an effective solution.They are able to appropriately ignore hidden implications, hypotheses, past traditions, and future possibilities.This may underlie the economy of effort that characterizes their style.They tend not to dwell on problems that are outside their control, and they rarely focus for long on anything negative and thus are typically optimistic. In trusting the evidence of their senses, they do not attribute unseen motives to others; they take people and situations at face value and accept others as they are.


As you can see to compare it with my definition of what might specifically be Ni dom way of acting. Se doms freely ignore everything that their intuition throws at them. Basically just taking things at face value (which could very well be the very definition of lacking intuition).


----------



## Couldbeworse (Apr 25, 2013)

> Extraverted Sensing types are typically out “in the world.”


I'm very much in my own world.



> They experience sensory data from the environment purely and directly. At their best, they can cut to the heart of a situation and implement an effective solution.


I'm not too good at making solutions. I'd rather find the problem than fix it.



> They are able to appropriately ignore hidden implications, hypotheses, past traditions, and future possibilities.This may underlie the economy of effort that characterizes their style.


Not like me at all. I'm always trying to find out what other people are thinking, and how this fits in with everything else I'm trying to accomplish.



> They tend not to dwell on problems that are outside their control, and they rarely focus for long on anything negative and thus are typically optimistic.


I'm optimistic, true. But I spend a lot of time dwelling on problems outside of my control. My friends tell me that I need to come back to the real world. My like-minded friends appreciate my insights. 



> In trusting the evidence of their senses, they do not attribute unseen motives to others; they take people and situations at face value and accept others as they are.


I have a friend who is all words and no talk. He's a ladie's man who will flirt with every girl who even hints at liking him. I asked him about one girl once and he denied that he knew he was flirting. I also told him once about how I noticed a girl liking him on the first day of Senior year. He was completely taken aback because he was so surprised that I was able to pick that up, because he sure didn't. They ended up almost being a couple, but she's going out of country for a year so it didn't work out. :crying:


Is this Ni?


----------



## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Couldbeworse said:


> I have a friend who is all words and no talk. He's a ladie's man who will flirt with every girl who even hints at liking him. I asked him about one girl once and he denied that he knew he was flirting. I also told him once about how I noticed a girl liking him on the first day of Senior year. He was completely taken aback because he was so surprised that I was able to pick that up, because he sure didn't. They ended up almost being a couple, but she's going out of country for a year so it didn't work out. :crying:
> 
> 
> Is this Ni?


Well, he sounds like an ESTP.
But what you describe as how you reacted to it seems maybe more Ne if anything since you feel the need to extravert it to get confirmation.

People tend to compare Ni to Newton, because he invented calculus or something, but didn't feel like telling it to anyone for about 20 years or so.

Thing with introverted functions is that you own them, you don't need input, you don't need anyone else's opinion, you don't need anything from the external world. It's like Fi, Ti or Si. They just don't care about the external world.


----------



## Couldbeworse (Apr 25, 2013)

Ok, maybe this will explain it. I knew for certain he was flirting and he knew it too. The reason I confronted him was because of my Fe. I know from my own experience not to deal with girls that way. I absolutely despise flirts, especially guy flirts, because they play with people's emotions just for fun and everyone else around can see it but there's nothing you can do about it. Its one of those things that can be denied so easily, like my friend did. It conflicted with my value system, so I wanted to change the way he treats girls. That would be explained by Fe, right? And that would still be Ni too, right? 


This is very hard for me. I don't understand why I'm not getting this. Grr.

I think I'm Ne because I am always talking about new ideas and stuff. Maybe I'm an INFP, I don't know.

I was at a student leaders supper tonight. There were eight of us plus the student development director and his wife. We were each handed certificates with a leadership characteristic. Then 3 people said an encouraging word about who we are as a leader. When it was my turn the conversation went as follows:

Student development director
Your word is responsibility--you always make sure the eisel is put out for prayer requests (I'm the Student Mission Fellowship president, we pray for missionaries.) 

You really showed your heart for your friends when you went up during campus days when I told my friend's story about how he tried to commit suicide. He was a student from the previous year who all the Seniors had known. I was dropping a bomb on them especially since everyone loved him, but I was the only one who had kept in contact with him. All 3 of the other students mentioned how this made an impact on them how much I cared for my friend.

1st student
"You are the type of person who is always thinking after class. I know I can count on you, you are reliable."

2nd student
"You come into my room and we have deep discussions. You pick apart people's brains, I didn't know the answer to your one question but I felt like I had to answer so I kind of just babbled. You really want to know the stuff for yourself, and you probably get more out of the classes than anyone."

3rd student
"One word comes to my mind when I think of you. Legit. You're real with people."

Maybe this will help, cause I still am unsure of my type. I'll write more later, but got to go.


----------



## Couldbeworse (Apr 25, 2013)

Acerbusvenator said:


> Ofc. introversion can be changed to "subjective" and extraversion to "objective" if following Jung's definitions.
> The general consensus of the meaning of extraversion vs introversion is that if you talk about your ideas, you use Ne even if you are a Ni user. If you explain your reasoning you use Te even as a Ti user. Tho it's like a right handed person using their left hand.


Can you elaborate on this? This is what I was getting at, that I talk about my Ni instead of holding it in like Newton did.


----------



## tangosthenes (Oct 29, 2011)

You are the most ISFJ ISFJ on the planet. So literal, so caring. I know that's caricature-like, but trust me. I would say a second option is ESFJ, but you strike me as absolutely ISFJ, right on the dot.


----------



## Couldbeworse (Apr 25, 2013)

tangosthenes said:


> You are the most ISFJ ISFJ on the planet. So literal, so caring. I know that's caricature-like, but trust me. I would say a second option is ESFJ, but you strike me as absolutely ISFJ, right on the dot.


Hold on. Remember this was an encouragement time. People were talking about their impressions of me. They thought of me as uncaring beforehand, but I actually do care, its just usually behind closed doors. That night I bawled my eyes out, I turned a friend's sweatshirt into a kleenex. This was out of my character, but it made a huge impression on them. But the other huge impression I made was that I always was sharing what I know with other people. I don't know...

And my mom is an ISFJ. I know I'm not my mom. Lol.

Although, I could see it, dang it.


----------



## Couldbeworse (Apr 25, 2013)

Si as my primary function...I have to study more up on it.

I don't know how reliable this is, but maybe this will clear things up.

Here are some statistics for ISFJs:




> Most important feature of an ideal job: stable and secure future.


Okay, maybe. I haven't developed my career yet.


> In national sample, among 3 types with lowest income.


Again, don't know. I don't care too much about making a lot of money.


> In national sample "Leisure Activities," overrepresented in "Watching TV 3 or more hours per day"


Nope, I hate watching TV or anything like it.


> Underrepresented in "Playing with computer/video games," "Watching sporting events," "Appreciating art," and "Playing sports."


I used to play video games 2 hours a day in high school. I love sports. 


> Academic subjects preferred: practical skills.



Nope. Nope. Nope. I hated Ag Ed, Home Ec. I loved Math, Creative Writing, Psychology


> Rated by psychologists as 1 of 2 types least likely to have trouble in school.


That's true.


> Second most frequent type among education majors.


I might become a teacher. That was one of my optional majors.


> In national sample, highest of all types in liking work environment characteristic "Employee loyalty & job security";


Yeah, sure, maybe.


> One of the 3 highest in national sample liking work environment characteristics "Clear structures" and "No expectation for working extra hours"


I don't care working extra hours.



> Lowest of all types in liking work environments with "International opportunities"


Hey, why not?


> In national sample, dissatisfied with "Promotions," "Stress," and "Salary" in their jobs.


Those are okay.


> Overrepresented among male small business owners compared with national sample.


I don't want my own business.


> With ISTJs, far outnumber dominant extraverted Sensing types among chronic pain patients.


I don't foresee having any problems with my body until I'm very old.


> One of 4 types in college reporting the lowest level of assertiveness.


I know how to get my way well enough.



> Among substance abusers, are attracted to heroin.


Not my style.


----------



## tangosthenes (Oct 29, 2011)

Couldbeworse said:


> Si as my primary function...I have to study more up on it.
> 
> I don't know how reliable this is, but maybe this will clear things up.
> 
> ...


Man, I really hate lists like this. Look, comparing yourself to random statistics is not a good way to get a feel of your functions. It is your thought process. Do you know yourself? Can you take a look at the Jungian summation on page 1 by NighTi and understand clearly what that means? If not, search. Everywhere. Read Jung's massive book on the subject. Understand those 8 lines and you will be able to nail your type and navigate the origins of the system with ease.

So to get Ni versus Si, you would say to yourself, am I consciously calling up connected experiences or impressions. The detail in which you describe things pretty much rules out Ni, for me. It just doesn't seem likely that Ni would include all that (no offense) superfluous detail. Representation vs mental impression.

Don't drop consideration of Fe as lead-your priorities seem to be extremely based around the effects on the emotions of others.(Disregard any of my own feeling pouring off here; the stronger notions Fe proposes are...counter to the way I run)

Also, your thing about rebelliousness interests me. People rebel because they don't like being controlled. On a personal level, Ni doms I know would neeevvverrr in their life say something like this. If things need to be changed, they'd be the first to get it done. Ni tends to be very very subversive, you seem to have a tendency for order. Do you ever disagree with anyone outright? Most of your interaction seems fairly above the board. You even feel guilty for questioning things. What's that about, bro? lol. You do give me a Je vibe.

and here ya go:
http://personalitycafe.com/istj-articles/76890-introverted-sensation-type-si-dom-described-jung.html
http://personalitycafe.com/intj-articles/95607-jungs-description-introverted-intuitve-type-ni-dominant.html


----------



## Couldbeworse (Apr 25, 2013)

http://personalitycafe.com/infp-art...description-best-infp-guide-ever-written.html

Is this a good profile? It was like looking into a mirror. This is me to the core.


----------



## tangosthenes (Oct 29, 2011)

Couldbeworse said:


> http://personalitycafe.com/infp-art...description-best-infp-guide-ever-written.html
> 
> Is this a good profile? It was like looking into a mirror. This is me to the core.


Ah, that's a different system. There's a socionics forum on PerC if you want to check it out. It's a bit different and it's open to a lot for formal speculation and range. Unless you strongly find yourself in one of the systems, it's just likely to confuse you.

I like these descriptions(these are MBTI, not socionics): Socionics - the16types.info - Jungian Cognitive Function Analysis of 16 Types by
There's a link to the extraverted profiles on that page at the top, too.


----------



## Couldbeworse (Apr 25, 2013)

I have extreme doubt that my religion (Christianity) is true. I feel like I have accepted it based on my upbringing. Islam could be the right one. Who knows, I tend towards Agnosticism really...I believe in Fallibilism--the belief that you could be wrong, about everything basically. I found that when I'm getting these thoughts the two things that help me are to pray and then take a nap to pass the phase. 

This is what the descriptions are talking about. I don't see how I can be nothing other than an INFJ.


----------



## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Couldbeworse said:


> Can you elaborate on this? This is what I was getting at, that I talk about my Ni instead of holding it in like Newton did.


So we can assume you use Ne rather than Ni.
With what we know earlier then you got Fe, Ti, Si, and Ne in some order.
That leaves, INTP, ENTP, ISFJ, ESFJ unless I'm mistaken.


Couldbeworse said:


> I have extreme doubt that my religion (Christianity) is true. I feel like I have accepted it based on my upbringing. Islam could be the right one. Who knows, I tend towards Agnosticism really...I believe in Fallibilism--the belief that you could be wrong, about everything basically. I found that when I'm getting these thoughts the two things that help me are to pray and then take a nap to pass the phase.


Doesn't say anything about your type. I know hard-ass super religious INTJs and after that you feel like you've seen everything.
Also, I'm an Apatheist (basically means that I don't really care either way, mostly I just ridicule stupid things about either side).


> This is what the descriptions are talking about. I don't see how I can be nothing other than an INFJ.


That's the problem right there in the end there. You're not open to possibilities.


----------



## Couldbeworse (Apr 25, 2013)

Acerbusvenator said:


> So we can assume you use Ne rather than Ni.
> With what we know earlier then you got Fe, Ti, Si, and Ne in some order.
> That leaves, INTP, ENTP, ISFJ, ESFJ unless I'm mistaken.
> 
> ...


If you read earlier in the thread you'd see that I was wondering if I was INTP. It makes sense to me.


----------



## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Couldbeworse said:


> If you read earlier in the thread you'd see that I was wondering if I was INTP. It makes sense to me.


Makes sense to me as well, your approach towards values has a more passive and analytical tone which I've noticed in INTPs, @arkigos might be able to fill that out more thoroughly But I suppose it has to do with their inferior Fe so at the same time as they want something to really make sense in their head, their inferior Fe makes them more passive about dismissing things than for example an ENTP or INTJ and their aux Ne also makes them very interested in finding out new perspectives (unlike Ni users who would mostly just dismiss things that don't fit our Ni).

Like I said in my first post (I believe it was) to this:


> 4. On the drive back, your friends are talking. A friend makes a claim that clashes with your current beliefs. What is your inward reaction? What do you outwardly say?
> 
> Inward reaction--Bummer that my friend thinks that way. *I wonder what his/her background is that makes them think that way. *
> Outwardly say--*I'd probe for more information on their belief.* I'd find the hole then explain to them what I believe.


There's a clear Fe and Ti, but it seems to be TiFe and not FeTi. (I've also bolded the thing that tends to be what INTPs do).
The underlined part is the one in which the INTP tends to bring the wrath of their Ti and dissect the belief of the other person, but that vary very much from person to person depending on how they were raised and stuff.

Which was why I said "Don't know what he means with "the hole" tho (if that refers to a lacking factual foundation or a pause in the explanation Hard to tell in this context.)", but I still haven't gotten an answer to that.


----------



## Couldbeworse (Apr 25, 2013)

What's your case for Si? I don't see it in myself, but perhaps it can be explained. Keep in mind that I'm 20 years old and my inferior and shadow functions aren't prevalent yet.


----------



## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Couldbeworse said:


> What's your case for Si? I don't see it in myself, but perhaps it can be explained. Keep in mind that I'm 20 years old and my inferior and shadow functions aren't prevalent yet.


You can't have Ne without Si.

It is fairly clear that you got strong Ti.
You can't have Ti without either Se or Ne.
Your way of writing is doubtfully that of Se. Plus, I showed you some info about strong Se users and you said it was definitely not you and so Se in general became less likely.
You also seem to have the inquisitiveness of an intuitive, but in the distinct TiNe way.


----------



## Couldbeworse (Apr 25, 2013)

Acerbusvenator said:


> You can't have Ne without Si.
> 
> It is fairly clear that you got strong Ti.
> You can't have Ti without either Se or Ne.
> ...


You haven't sold me yet. I have a few questions and possible explanations. I have taken Enneagram and Big Five tests as well, and the correlation statistics I looked up all point to INFJ. Now, before you get up off your rocker, I realize I might be wrong. If I were an INTP, theoretically, I could figure out what answers would make me an INFJ? Kind of like a self-fulfilled prophecy, right? That's exactly something an INTP would do, correct?

Also, I feel extremely bad for not agreeing with you 100% because you seem a lot more knowledgable than I. I still think Fe could be one of my first two functions because I am always thinking about what kind of response you'll give...


----------



## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Couldbeworse said:


> You haven't sold me yet. I have a few questions and possible explanations. I have taken Enneagram and Big Five tests as well, and the correlation statistics I looked up all point to INFJ.


I am RLOAI in Big Five which is the one with the highest correlation to INFJ and I am enneagram 6w7 which doesn't exactly follow the INTJ stereotype (since it's nickname is "the buddy" which is what you'd expect from an INFJ or something). 


> Also, I feel extremely bad for not agreeing with you 100% because you seem a lot more knowledgable than I. I still think Fe could be one of my first two functions because I am always thinking about what kind of response you'll give...


Meh, don't feel bad. I feel bad when I sell people too easily... sometimes my intuition nudges too hard and people just accept what might be a misstep of my intuition. I do after all have inferior Se so I tend to miss certain details or sometimes subconsciously ignore them as irrelevant even tho they aren't.

When it comes to Fe, then it is a value function and you would be right if it was about your response I suppose, but that you think a bit ahead sounds more like your intuition. 
I always tend to do that, it's my dark side I suppose, conveniently forgetting things to nudge things my way by analyzing the probable response (even tho I tend to be incredibly wrong from time to time).

The general thing to remember tho is to never trust other systems to be able to have complete correlation. Enneagrams deal with how you behave and why and MBTI with how you think. Big 5 if I am not mistaken deals more with personality traits.


----------



## Couldbeworse (Apr 25, 2013)

Acerbusvenator said:


> I am RLOAI in Big Five which is the one with the highest correlation to INFJ and I am enneagram 6w7 which doesn't exactly follow the INTJ stereotype (since it's nickname is "the buddy" which is what you'd expect from an INFJ or something).
> 
> Meh, don't feel bad. I feel bad when I sell people too easily... sometimes my intuition nudges too hard and people just accept what might be a misstep of my intuition. I do after all have inferior Se so I tend to miss certain details or sometimes subconsciously ignore them as irrelevant even tho they aren't.
> 
> ...




I* bolded all the questions that aren't rhetorical.*

Yes, that does sound a lot like intuition, which I'm almost certain I have over sensing. Now, I've read that introverted intuitive are known for their "Aha!" moments, but my "Aha!" moment today came in the form of thinking I'm Ti. The hardest struggle for me is distinguishing between these two functions. I'll explain via my studying patterns (deals with how you think very much, ay?) 

http://personalitycafe.com/cognitive-functions/35823-ti-vs-ni.html

Why not look at the precedents instead of coming up with our own INTP or INFJ discussion, right? 



suicidal_orange said:


> I suggest you try and work out whether you use Ne or Ni (easier said than done, for me at least) to decide whether you're NFJ or NTP and if you decide NTP don't discount being an E - they are very introverted for extroverts and many of them have similar struggles being sociable.
> 
> Good luck :happy:


Yes, that is a better idea. I still hold onto my theory that I am developing the same way that NighTi did. I'm becoming more NiTi (haha, I finally got the pun lol.) every day. But lets move on to discover why I think this.



tooboku said:


> Most INTJs and INFJs are pretty sure of their type from the beginning.
> 
> Te and Fe are I suppose a little more decisive by nature.
> 
> ...


I am sure of my type. The only reason I've been considering INTP was I felt guilty and I wanted to draw you back into INFJ. I've been punching in variables. Kind of like, "Hey, I've got this, this, this, and this, which must equal this this this, and this. Aha! However, my ability to get into the subject matter has suggested to me that maybe my Ti is coming in at the age of 20. Very underdeveloped I think. *According to Jungian theory, we use all 8 functions, right? Jungian theory tries to order them with our preference and how much they drain us. Ti, being my third would rank high but still be rather unused, but still one of my best functions, correct?*



vel said:


> Ni gives me "aha!" moments, intuitive realizations, but doesn't explain how something works. I've read that it is associated with blind belief, believing something is just true without understand how it can be true or how it works, with reaching conclusion without knowing the steps the followed there and I can say this sounds very much true.
> 
> Ti to the contrary is very busy figuring how things work. So in my case because I have both my Ti wants to deconstruct these intuitive vibes, pull them apart into pieces, label these pieces and inspect how they relate to each other - it wants to understand how an intuitive vibe generated by Ni works, why is it so, how did Ni reach such-and-such conclusion. I think for INTP his or her Ti will be doing same to Ne-generated ideas and intuitive hunches but achieving much greater inner clarity than tertiary Ti of INFJs or auxiliary Ti of ENTPs. Ni to the contrary doesn't feel clear at all. I also noticed that Ti users may feel a need to make up their mind about something, to form and hold an opinion on things, but Ni just wants to encompass everything, all possibilities, and doesn't care to prioritize some things over others.
> 
> Way to distinguish Ne from Ni is that Ni inspects things that have already happened in past, seeing trends and patterns of the past, and then it flips these patterns and trends into the future. So it looks like a future oriented function but in reality it is very much past oriented, but just mirrors past into future. I also think Ni as if subtracts meaning from environment. It is very good at spotting things it deems meaningless. Ne is more about working with what you have in present to model something conceptually new out of it. Ne to the contrary of Ni seems to just pick up things in environment and create meaning for them rather than subtracting meaning. So then if you know which propensities you have in your thinking then you can figure out whether you use Ni or Ne.


This is where my "Aha!" moment comes in. I am a tutor for a student who's in his first year. I'm in my second year. Its a two-year school, so I'll be graduating soon. Most of the classes he's taking I had taken first year. Right now I'm helping him study for five finals that are exactly the same as I took. I was helping him study for Bible Doctrine (very theoretical, very conceptual). I realized that I knew everything, but I couldn't pinpoint how or why I knew. Oh my, look at that Ni! I just rhymed, I wonder why. It's because my intuitive's uppercase I" 

It was interesting, because I realized that my tutee might be concerned with the reliability of my answers. If he were to ask how I knew, I wouldn't be able to answer. I couldn't remember any of the details surrounding the answer, just that it felt like the right answer and I was sure of it! We were going through someone else's study guide. He printed off two of them for both of us to have. Our friend left some answers blank because he wasn't able to get them. I started rattling off information I had no idea I knew. I even started adding more onto the answers that our friend gave. Now, let me make sure I'm interpreting this right. If my hunch or gut-feeling (yes, I'm throwing in MBTI terminology just to make a point), if my hunch is correct, then I knew these things because I dug deep into the archives of my knowledge and pulled out the information. *But could that be Ti, because I had organized the data into my brain and then pulled it back out?* I don't think it was because when I started tracing my thoughts back, I couldn't figure out where I learned the information or how I learned the information. However, my job was forcing me into Ti as the underlined sentences explain. Which is why I'm still holding on that my Ti is present, but still weak because most of the time I wasn't able to track my information to its original source. 

Another point of Ni vs Ti that came up was how I was learning the material. While studying for the Romans final I quickly discovered that that a lot of the questions related to one another. There were a lot of questions that centered around righteousness. I thus deduced that the main theme was righteousness. I then found out that many of the questions were divided into two parts, dealing with sanctification and justification. I then related every divided that into two subpoints of justification and sanctification. I then related all the next questions to asking if they fall under the category justification or sanctification. I happened to remember that much of the test was centered around these two points, it was just a gut feeling I guess. *I don't know how you interpret this. I see a lot of N and Ti, you tell me which N.*

Here's an example that I think leads to INTP, but could also be INFJ depending on whether my interpretation of the event is right or not. I was talking to someone sometime in the past few days. We were laughing about something *(Fe? I remember not thinking it was that funny but laughing anyways. I do that a lot. That's Fe, right?)* and then I looked away for a split-second. I looked back and he wasn't laughing anymore. I then realized that by looking away, that is a signal for the conversation to stop *(This could be Ne, right? Because its looking at present stimuli and interpreting them).* I then proceeded to explain to him what just happened. However, I had made this connection many times before. It was one of those things that you kind of know in the subconscious, but then all of a sudden it comes to the forefront *(is this Ni)*. *Is it Ni that I'm looking back at these events and interpreting them in the present?*





amnorvend said:


> Possibly the easiest thing to do is try differentiating Ni from Ne. In general, extraverted perception (Ne) will observe a situation and move the person to take part in the situation or use the situation to move closer to other people. Introverted perception will move a person to differentiate themselves from the situation or other people.
> 
> Lenore Thomson gives a pretty good example. I'll paraphrase (and include S functions as well just for comparison):
> 
> ...


This made me laugh on the inside. Out of the four descriptions, I am Ni-Se. On the car ride there it might be very possible that I would question my ethical responsibility. 'I'm going to the beach to have fun. Is having fun against my moral standards? I feel irresponsible. But its good that I'm spending it with friends. After all, a basic human need is friends. But still...' *This is my Ni, correct?* Notice that I'm also filtering this information with Fe, using my friends to justify my actions. Ah..., I'm getting the hang of this even if this a made up example. Now, I want to talk about the _italicized_ part of the quote. My Fe is deciding whether or not the ethics of going to the beach is worthy to bring up. Now, it seems silly, but I've found out that most of the time people enjoy stupid stuff like that. *Unlike Newton, who didn't share calculus with anyone, I share a lot of my Ni. Could this be true?* I've realized that people think a lot of it is fun to talk about (depending on who I'm around of course), but I've also found that its a way to retreat back into introversion even when around people.



vel said:


> As far as what Ni has to do with the past I have come to see it as basically something that has heavy influence on what sort of memories you will store, as it is a perceiving introverted function. It acts like a filter to what you will retain and remember after observing new events happen or may be even occasionaly participating in them (Se). Then when you see something similar occur your mind will put forward that memory that really consists of a very extensive spiderweb of connections. So you observe one thing and then the connection is made to something you remember from past, you remember how it was and that's when the "aha" moment hits. And that is how you "just know" what is going to happen, because you have actually observed something similar in past and your mind instantly drew the connections to those memories. It gets more complicated than that actually - it also synthesizes several of these memories together such that it may actually reference several different past scenarios and pull piece from those.
> 
> That's at least how I sense it working in myself. I had a sense that perceiving functions are somehow related to our perception of time and then I realized that Ni function working inside my head is actually feeding into what sort of memories I store. Then I realized that Ni is actually tied to my perception of the past.


Yes, indeed. This is what I've been doing all along. I've been storing memories relevant to MBTI. I an now reflecting on them to determine my functions.


----------



## sahana (May 13, 2013)

Thanks for your all kind information.


----------



## NighTi (Jan 1, 2013)

Your obsession with this stuff reminds me of myself about six months ago, after an MBTI expert told me that I couldn't possibly be an INTJ because my thinking was introverted. Ti just won't let that kind of thing go. The inconsistency between the mental model and the data feels like a pair of tomcats screeching and clawing at one another.

I really need to get to bed, so I'm going to be much more terse than I'd like. You've come this far. Please get yourself a copy of Jung's _Psychological Types_. The Kindle edition is less than a buck. Two Works by Dr Carl Jung - the Association Method & Psychological Types: Dr. Carl Jung: Amazon.com: Kindle Store . Read it from cover to cover. Familiarizing yourself with the primary source will take you much less time than you've already spent reading us blowhards on the Internet.

Then get your hands on _Gifts Differing_ by Isabel Myers: Gifts Differing: Understanding Personality Type: Isabel Briggs Myers, Peter B. Myers: Amazon.com: Kindle Store . That one will cost you ten bucks, but you probably spend way more that on textbooks anyway. 


I'm going to respond to just one of your questions:



Couldbeworse said:


> According to Jungian theory, we use all 8 functions, right? Jungian theory tries to order them with our preference and how much they drain us. Ti, being my third would rank high but still be rather unused, but still one of my best functions, correct?


No. Jung says that you have one dominant function plus access to one or two others. Myers forms this into her dominant-auxiliary-tertiary model. John Bebee does do exactly what you described with his model which includes all eight functions, but even for him, functions past the fourth are dark creatures of the unconscious. 

Don't lose sight of how dominant the dominant is. It's the sun in your cognitive solar system.


----------



## Bricolage (Jul 29, 2012)

The stuff about disobeying authority being wrong and Christianity being the bee's knees, and not laughing at crude jokes, sounds like a compliant enneagram type. In fact, it sounds like type one. Also, you basically call sex, parties and "rambunctious" behavior "bad." This also sounds like type one. You have a puritanical streak and seem repressed to me. The type one wants to have integrity and be good. They can also be righteous and their ego fixation is indignation or resentment. @Couldbeworse 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enneagram_of_Personality


----------



## Couldbeworse (Apr 25, 2013)

I'm reading differing gifts right now. Jung's Psychological Types is on the way to the library now. 

If anything, its creating more confusion for me between INTP and INFJ. Ugh!


----------



## Psychopomp (Oct 3, 2012)

* *






Couldbeworse said:


> 20 years old, male.
> 
> *1. Click on this link: ** Look at the random photo for about 30 seconds. Copy and paste it here, and write about your impression of it.*
> 
> ...





I had a bunch of other stuff quoted out but I think this is an open and close case of INFJ. ENFJ vaguely possible but I don't think as likely. 

I haven't read anything else on this thread. I hope that this is all still applicable. If not, oh well. It was fun. I could see some people swoop in with SFJ, or something else. They are wrong. HAHA. You are an Ni, so forget INTP. Forget it all and obey my dictations. I have forseen this day. My judgments are just but unrelenting. Do not disobey.



EDIT: Hopefully the headache you get from reading this post will drive home why you might not be an Ne.


----------



## Couldbeworse (Apr 25, 2013)

arkigos said:


> I had a bunch of other stuff quoted out but I think this is an open and close case of INFJ. ENFJ vaguely possible but I don't think as likely.
> 
> I haven't read anything else on this thread. I hope that this is all still applicable. If not, oh well. It was fun. I could see some people swoop in with SFJ, or something else. They are wrong. HAHA. You are an Ni, so forget INTP. Forget it all and obey my dictations. I have forseen this day. My judgments are just but unrelenting. Do not disobey.
> 
> ...


Um, your bit on the party makes my head bang on the keyboard. 

This is actually quite hilarious. I was reading through some other PerC stuff and I came across a thread you were active in. I was impressed by your posts; I found them easy to follow and very helpful. Then I started looking at your Avatar/signature and I got to thinking. What kind of religious background does this guy have? You seem to be some sort of philosopher judging by your wide variety of 'pillars and interests.' I'm going to guess that you're some kind of agnostic or possibly some form of syncretist. 


And hey, not only does your post drive home the INFJ, but this book with colored squares on it says that the NF temperament prefers these occupations:

Creative writers
Junior year of high school I had a kick on how I was going to be a best-selling author. Then I realized my skills were...a lot lot lot overestimated.

Theology
Hm...

Counseling
I'm going to be a pastor someday, I know it.

Health-related professions
I'm a Personal-Care-Assistant for goodness sakes!

Journalism
Might as well add this to my list, cause I have all the rest already.


Red flags are waving. So are white ones, it says INTP on it.


----------

