# Type Lucifer



## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

I can't decide if he's Sexual 8w7, Sexual 2w3, Self Preservation 7w8 or Sexual 4w3


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

I'd say he is a four.
He wanted to be unique.
His anger is typical neglected 4 anger, 
trying to make as much damage to everything he can before the time is up.


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## ShadowsRunner (Apr 24, 2013)

I want to say ENTJ--with inferior Fi left unchecked to run rampant on his psyche with loads of anger and jealously.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

GhostShadow said:


> I want to say ENTJ--with inferior Fi left unchecked to run rampant on his psyche with loads of anger and jealously.


personally, I think he's ENTP. what do you think for his Enneagram type?


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## fair phantom (Mar 5, 2015)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> I can't decide if he's Sexual 8w7, Sexual 2w3, Self Preservation 7w8 or Sexual 4w3


I think it depends on the writer. I think Lucifer has been written as all of these. The Lucifer that most sticks in my mind is the one whose pride was hurt when God created Man and seemed (perhaps correctly) to love Man more. There wasn't the doubt that he deserved that love like I would expect a 4 to have—even an Sx 4w3. No "Is there something wrong with _me_?" that I can recall. I think that this is the Lucifer that we get in _Paradise Lost_; the one that _Frankenstein_ finds. A sexual 2w3

But I think Lucifer has probably been written as all of the types that you have listed, and perhaps more.


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## He's a Superhero! (May 1, 2013)

*Interesting facts:* "Lucifer" is the Latinization of the Hebrew term "Hehlel", which means "Shining one". Understanding the exact context of the term shows that it's similar to calling someone a "Narcissist" in English. "Lucifer" or "Hehlel" is a title, not a name.
The true name of the spirit creature known as "Lucifer" is not recorded in the Bible, tho he is given various other titles: "Devil", meaning "Slanderer", "Satan" meaning "Resister" (of God), "Belial" meaning "Good for nothing". He's also called "the father of the lie", a "great dragon" and "serpent", and is likened to a "roaring lion" (The context of the "roaring" is of the sound a lion makes when it is desperate to eat). As well, he is known to disguise himself as an "angel of light".


***

As for his type, I'll have to think on that...Lots of anger, jealousy, pride, manipulation...

Still, I have a theory that spirit creature personalities are more complex than ours, as they are superior creatures.


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## ShadowsRunner (Apr 24, 2013)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> personally, I think he's ENTP. what do you think for his Enneagram type?


I don't know enough about him, lol. 

I wish I could say that I am vastly well read and knowledgeable in all things Satan, but alas I am not. 

it just seems like, someone who is not too dissimilar to a tyrant, would really love rules and order; hence the TJ thing. I would say it makes sense for him to be an 8, with the desire to be strong and in control. Choosing a 4; while plausible, just seems like trying to be original or different for that typing.


(wait, I get it, he's the ultimate "trickster" right? that perfectly fits into a common ENTP archetype. For myself, I suppose I mostly see him as this great evil warlord type entity, and not just simply one who deceives.)


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## ShadowsRunner (Apr 24, 2013)

fair phantom said:


> I think it depends on the writer. I think Lucifer has written as all of these. The Lucifer that most sticks in my mind is the one whose pride was hurt when God created Man and seemed (perhaps correctly) to love Man more. There wasn't the doubt that he deserved that love like I would expect a 4 to have—even an Sx 4w3. No "Is there something wrong with _me_?" that I can recall. I think that this is the Lucifer that we get in _Paradise Lost_; the one that _Frankenstein_ finds. A sexual 2w3
> 
> But I think Lucifer has probably been written as all of the types that you have listed, and perhaps more.


He's not written :shocked:


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## fair phantom (Mar 5, 2015)

GhostShadow said:


> He's not written :shocked:


OOPS. I meant he has BEEN written.


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## ShadowsRunner (Apr 24, 2013)

fair phantom said:


> OOPS. I meant he has BEEN written.


I have realized I do not know enough about Satan as I have thought.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

GhostShadow said:


> I don't know enough about him, lol.
> I wish I could say that I am vastly well read and knowledgeable in all things Satan, but alas I am not.
> it just seems like, someone who is not too dissimilar to a tyrant, would really love rules and order; hence the TJ thing.


in my experience, most TJs aren't nearly as controlling as they're painted as. he seems more schemer, trickster and seducer like evil ExTP (Te doms really aren't all that seductive. they much more blunt, straightforward and generally kinda dry). 



> I would say it makes sense for him to be an 8, with the desire to be strong and in control.


this is plausible



> Choosing a 4; while plausible, just seems like trying to be original or different for that typing.


it's not wanting me to be unique which makes me think 4 is possible, as much as the envy and dark _vindictiveness_ of Sexual 4 "how _dare_ you reject me! I will make you suffer!"


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## ShadowsRunner (Apr 24, 2013)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> in my experience, most TJs aren't nearly as controlling as they're painted as. he seems more schemer, trickster and seducer like evil ExTP (Te doms really aren't all that seductive. they much more blunt, straightforward and generally kinda dry).
> 
> 
> this is plausible
> ...


Yeah, but those are all kind of stereotypes I think; you can easily turn it around and say the same thing for all of the other types as well.

But even so, I just felt like it was trying to take a new spin on Satan by trying to say that perhaps he was some kind of a tragic-hero, perhaps. I just think that, only an extremely unhealthy four would be so driven by vindictiveness to really want to completely act out on their revenge as he had, and even then, it would most likely be on themselves. Fours are driven by what they lack, and of a sense of missing something and being inadequate; envy can arise out of that, but I don't think it's always the primary drive or motivation. Wouldn't he also sort of love God in a sense then, too? he would desperately in some way, want to regain his love and trust that he himself has somehow lost.

But we're talking 'evil' here, so I suppose at some point, eventually he would have been completely consumed by his dark side and lose all sense of humanity he had once had (but again, why did God create evil in the first place, or for angels to have to ability to lose all humanity and be completely evil? and do Angels even have humanity?) anyway, I just don't think he was really this this sad rejected, flawed feeling guy/thing/entity, that turned to wrong-doings and was inevitably consumed by darkness; because he somehow felt 'flawed' 

(And if so, wouldn't Satan have been the one being redeemed and paying for all our sins, not Jesus?)


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

GhostShadow said:


> Yeah, but those are all kind of stereotypes I think; you can easily turn it around and say the same thing for all of the other types as well.
> 
> But even so, I just felt like it was trying to take a new spin on Satan by trying to say that perhaps he was some kind of a tragic-hero, perhaps. I just think that, only an extremely unhealthy four would be so driven by vindictiveness to really want to completely act out on their revenge as he had, and even then, it would most likely be on themselves. Fours are driven by what they lack, and of a sense of missing something and being inadequate; envy can arise out of that, but I don't think it's always the primary drive or motivation. Wouldn't he also sort of love God in a sense then, too? he would desperately in some way, want to regain his love and trust that he himself has somehow lost.


you have it backwards, envy is the _root_ of their feeling defective, lacking, etc, not the other way around. it is 4's central vice


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## ShadowsRunner (Apr 24, 2013)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> you have it backwards, envy is the _root_ of their feeling defective, lacking, etc, not the other way around. it is 4's central vice


No it's not. It's because most fours have abandonment issues of some kind, and felt as though they were not good enough to be loved whilst in their formative years, thus they set out on a quest to be 'good' enough; but they can never achieve it because they project their inadequacies unto the outside world, and perceive a sense of lacking in what they see others as having, and thus it creates a sense of envy.


What you are describing to me sounds more like a Machiavellian type of individual; but I don't know what that enneagram would be.

I GUESS WHAT I WAS TRYING TO SAY BEFORE WAS THAT; I think it's more he felt that God's teachings were some how flawed, and he himself REJECTED THEM, and then went off and created Hell or whatever.

Anyway, this profiled "Machiavellian" used in one sentence to describe 8 self pres disintegration, so maybe that's it. 
http://www.breakoutofthebox.com/sub8.htm


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

GhostShadow said:


> No it's not. It's because most fours have abandonment issues of some kind, and felt as though they were not good enough to be loved whilst in their formative years, thus they set out on a quest to be 'good' enough; but they can never achieve it because they project their inadequacies unto the outside world, and perceive a sense of lacking in what they see others as having, and thus it creates a sense of envy.
> 
> What you are describing to me sounds more like a Nefarious type of individual; but I don't know what that enneagram would be.
> 
> I GUESS WHAT I WAS TRYING TO SAY BEFORE WAS THAT; I think it's more he felt that God's teachings were some how flawed, and he himself REJECTED THEM, and then went off and created Hell or whatever.


respectfully, I suggest you check your sources. Sexual 4 is an incredibly aggressive, vindictive type, more so than even 8 or cp6
http://personalitycafe.com/type-4-f...-description-according-beatrice-chestnut.html


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

Why ENTP and not ESTP?
I have a hard time seeing him as Ne and socionics alpha quadra lol

No idea about enneagram, the ones you suggested all seem equally possible to me


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Amaranthine said:


> Why ENTP and not ESTP?
> I have a hard time seeing him as Ne and socionics alpha quadra lol
> 
> No idea about enneagram, the ones you suggested all seem equally possible to me


ESTP is definitely possible


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Lucifer who? If you are referring to the biblical Satan, I'd probably say 8 without thinking about it twice.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Entropic said:


> Lucifer who? If you are referring to the biblical Satan, I'd probably say 8 without thinking about it twice.


why 8 over the other options?


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## johnnyyukon (Nov 8, 2013)

The Devil reminds me of The Joker (not sure why, I defintely have NOT been totally absorbed in Batman mythos and obsessivly watching _Gotham_).

The Joker is, as someone mentioned, a trickster that incites pure chaos and destruction, just for the fuck of it. Very impulsive, very sensual. Like Dionysus (or Bacchus), a symbol of hedonism, excess, and fun.

The Joker is classically ENTP, and I see an sx dom for the Dark Lord as well.


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## Superfluous (Jan 28, 2014)

Entropic said:


> I'm sorry but this is incorrect. The snake in the garden of Eden is unrelated to Satan, though it is a common interpretation to think that it is. The actual Satan in the bible is simply just an angel often performing tasks for god e.g. in the book of Job, Satan keeps testing Job's faith to determine how strongly Job is devoted to god.


Ah really then? Good point. Perhaps people feel compelled to romanticize who, to simplify, is just a tool because of how well the fallen angel does the job. The more we paint this person as strong, the more we can get away with being weak in God's eyes.


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## johnnyyukon (Nov 8, 2013)

Superfluous said:


> Ah really then? Good point. Perhaps people feel compelled to romanticize who, to simplify, is just a tool because of how well the fallen angel does the job. The more we paint this person as strong, the more we can get away with being weak in God's eyes.


totes.

To me, Lucifer, the Lord of Darkness, Emperor Absolute of the entire domain of Hell, Supreme Commander of the Unholy Armies of Suffering and Eternal Agony, Satanic General and Unquestioned Ruler the Archdemons, Adramelech, Marquis of the Demonic Brigade, Abaddon the Destroyer and his 700 infernal legions, The Soul Devouring Leviathan, and Duke Sabnock of the Putrid Centaurian Regiment, well, he's like a life coach to me.


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## Superfluous (Jan 28, 2014)

johnnyyukon said:


> totes.
> 
> To me, Lucifer, the Lord of Darkness, Emperor Absolute of the entire domain of Hell, Supreme Commander of the Unholy Armies of Suffering and Eternal Agony, Satanic General and Unquestioned Ruler the Archdemons, Adramelech, Marquis of the Demonic Brigade, Abaddon the Destroyer and his 700 infernal legions, The Soul Devouring Leviathan, and Duke Sabnock of the Putrid Centaurian Regiment, well, he's like a life coach to me.


:laughing: I might want you to elaborate on this later.


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## johnnyyukon (Nov 8, 2013)

Superfluous said:


> :laughing: I might want you to elaborate on this later.


Oh I could, but I don't wanna scare you.


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## Superfluous (Jan 28, 2014)

johnnyyukon said:


> Oh I could, but I don't wanna scare you.


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## johnnyyukon (Nov 8, 2013)

Superfluous said:


>


Oh snap.

The original Teen Wolf.































Well ok, you unexpectedly earned elaboration on my strange, yet vast knowledge of Demonology, the Occult, Black Magick, and other things that should stay under rocks (if you wish).


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## Typhon (Nov 13, 2012)

GhostShadow said:


> Anyway, yeah I guess four's can be primarily motivated by envy; it just seems strange to me as I am a Sx 4w3, and I am not really all that envious. I would say at times, quite resentful, and there is some envy, but I rarely would act on it, except for creative self expression purposes.
> 
> It honestly sounds like the person writing that article on Sexual Fours hates them, or something lol
> I guess we're all dark succubus-es of evil incarnate.
> ...


Maybe you don't understand the term "envy" in the context of the ennegaram. It has nothing to do with material envy, like in the French Revolution. According to enneagram, for fours, it has to do with "wanting" "spiritual" qualities(mainly uniqueness) that fours find attractive in others but feel they are originally lacking in themselves. Fours feel ordinary, thats why they try to compensate by wanting to be "unique".


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## Typhon (Nov 13, 2012)

He's a Superhero! said:


> That's a non-Biblical creation that partially dates to ancient Greece. You have to remember that he's a member of the species of spirit creatures we refer to as angels, so he'd look like an angel.


But what do angels look like? 0.o


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## ShadowsRunner (Apr 24, 2013)

Typhon said:


> Maybe you don't understand the term "envy" in the context of the ennegaram. It has nothing to do with material envy, like in the French Revolution. According to enneagram, for fours, it has to do with "wanting" "spiritual" qualities(mainly uniqueness) that fours find attractive in others but feel they are originally lacking in themselves. Fours feel ordinary, thats why they try to compensate by wanting to be "unique".



:dry:
Maybe you don't understand that I was quoting the four type description that Swordsman of Mana sent. Duh. 
Actually, that can do with envying anything that you may feel you are lacking that you see in others; and four's ARE often different, or at least very much have had negative experiences in relation to their individual differences, and in fact try to compensate for trying to make up for their flawed perception of themselves. 

They are not only self-centered drama-queens have inadequacy complexes about how ordinary and plain they feel, thus acting like over the top the top and obnoxious, or like attention seeking emo's.

That's like the stereotype of the four, dude.

Uh, uh, actually. ACTUALLY.


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## Typhon (Nov 13, 2012)

GhostShadow said:


> :dry:
> Maybe you don't understand that I was quoting the four type description that Swordsman of Mana sent. Duh.
> Actually, that can do with envying anything that you may feel you are lacking that you see in others; and four's ARE often different, or at least very much have had negative experiences in relation to their individual differences, and in fact try to compensate for trying to make up for their flawed perception of themselves.
> 
> ...


No, fours are not "different", thats a conviction unhealthy fours( like yourself?) have. Btw, what are you basing this on? You troll Swordsman of Mana because he posts links to description but I can't help but to think that you're just pulling stuff out of your ass to put it bluntly, girl.


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## Philathea (Feb 16, 2015)

Typhon said:


> No, fours are not "different", thats a conviction unhealthy fours( like yourself?) have. Btw, what are you basing this on? You troll Swordsman of Mana because he posts links to description but I can't help but to think that you're just pulling stuff out of your ass to put it bluntly, girl.


Even healthier Four's generally feel a bit "different" from others. That's why they compensate by, not trying to be "unique" like you earlier stated, but by trying to be _authentic_. Fours don't have to try to be different as much as they already feel different. The "striving to be unique" is not really something Fours do in my experience, it's just an inevitable byproduct of their striving to be authentic. As in, when you are authentically yourself, you are not like anybody else. (I know a lot of descriptions actually use the term "trying to be unique", but I disagree with this.)

And I don't think @GhostShadow is making things up-- as stated by Naranjo:


> The emotional state of envy involves a painful sense of lack and a craving toward that which is felt lacking; the situation involves a sense of goodness as something outside oneself which needs to be incorporated.





> The typical life history of type IV is painful, and it is often apparent that the causes for pain were unusually striking, so it is clear that painful memories are not only a consequence of claiming attitude or tendency to dramatize pain.



* *





EDIT: Also, I'm derailing a bit, but referring to the "Fours feel ordinary and try to be different" thing, I found this post by @0+n*1 that I think he wrote amazingly well (your name is really difficult to write out btw lol).



> I also think that the desire to be different from others or feel special is more of a 3 desire than a 4 desire. Actually, I've seen more 4s say the opposite, crying out that they wish they were normal or something similar; I can't relate to that. 3s want to stand out, especially younger and unaccomplished 3s. Being like others is an equivalent of having no value, the incarnation of 3s' fear. Being the best at something is standing out, having a unique set of skills or traits is standing out, having some legitimate source of distinction is very important for 3s.


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## Typhon (Nov 13, 2012)

Philathea said:


> Even healthier Four's generally feel a bit "different" from others. That's why they compensate by, not trying to be "unique" like you earlier stated, but by trying to be _authentic_. Fours don't have to try to be different as much as they already feel different. The "striving to be unique" is not really something Fours do in my experience, it's just an inevitable byproduct of their striving to be authentic. As in, when you are authentically yourself, you are not like anybody else. (I know a lot of descriptions actually use the term "trying to be unique", but I disagree with this.)
> 
> And I don't think @_GhostShadow_ is making things up-- as stated by Naranjo:


Alright, I guess, worded like that I can agree. I'm either 4w5 or 5w4, so I know where you are coming from with feeling different and all, and theres nothing you can do to become "normal"(actually I don't think most normal people are really "normal" deep down) in the eyes of others. But I think unhealthy fours will just use their feeling of being "different" and say its not just a feeling but an actual state of being, and thats where you get problems like feeling exempt from living the way others around them do, etc. 

Btw, I was just trolling GhostShadow by trying to annoy her, haha. I was hoping for more of a response on her part, lol, but I guess she caught on. :laughing:


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## ShadowsRunner (Apr 24, 2013)

Typhon said:


> No, fours are not "different", thats a conviction unhealthy fours( like yourself?) have. Btw, what are you basing this on? You troll Swordsman of Mana because he posts links to description but I can't help but to think that you're just pulling stuff out of your ass to put it bluntly, girl.


What the fuck are you talking about? it was written right there in the description.

My gender is in my profile


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## ShadowsRunner (Apr 24, 2013)

Philathea said:


> Even healthier Four's generally feel a bit "different" from others. That's why they compensate by, not trying to be "unique" like you earlier stated, but by trying to be _authentic_. Fours don't have to try to be different as much as they already feel different. The "striving to be unique" is not really something Fours do in my experience, it's just an inevitable byproduct of their striving to be authentic. As in, when you are authentically yourself, you are not like anybody else. (I know a lot of descriptions actually use the term "trying to be unique", but I disagree with this.)
> 
> And I don't think @_GhostShadow_ is making things up-- as stated by Naranjo:
> 
> ...


I think that to a degree, they want to be "special" but it's because they feel flawed deep down, and not worthy of love, or respect.


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## Typhon (Nov 13, 2012)

GhostShadow said:


> What the fuck are you talking about? it was written right there in the description.
> 
> My gender is in my profile


Like I said..just trying to annoy, lol. No hard feelings intended.


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## ShadowsRunner (Apr 24, 2013)

Typhon said:


> Like I said..just trying to annoy, lol. No hard feelings intended.


You're just full of shit, dude.


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## Typhon (Nov 13, 2012)

GhostShadow said:


> You're just full of shit, dude.


Why do you say that? No need to be a prick.


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## ShadowsRunner (Apr 24, 2013)

Typhon said:


> Why do you say that? No need to be a prick.


Lol, I'm just "trolling" you.

Chill, man.


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## Typhon (Nov 13, 2012)

GhostShadow said:


> Lol, I'm just "trolling" you.
> 
> Chill, man.


You should put out a collection of music, called "I'm just 'trolling' you". With hit singles " Chill man" and " You're just full of shit, dude".


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## He's a Superhero! (May 1, 2013)

Typhon said:


> But what do angels look like? 0.o


Good question. It's difficult to answer, as they are spirit creatures rather than physical, but from what the Bible tells us they can take on a human appearance. Sometimes they are depicted with wings as well - I don't have time to look up the scriptures at the moment tho to show you where exactly, sorry about that.
They are depicted as taller than humans too.


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