# What is life like as an Sp last?



## Splash Shin (Apr 7, 2011)

Looking into more insight. Sp seems like that almost vital instinct to survive and get around in society in one piece, whether it's first in the stack or second.

I'm wondering a lot lately how being Sp last might be. I have a close suspected Sx/So type 3 friend who from my view tends to have a bit of trouble with financial decisions and thinking through how he uses his money. 

That said, I'm not using him as an example, but it did get me thinking on the subject.


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## Kitfool (Oct 24, 2012)

It's funny because I was just trying to talk to my dad and stepmom about this last night. My dad is also an ISTP, though a 5w6 and a very strong SP first type. I was trying to explain the instincts to him and he was baffled that anyone could NOT have the SP instinct in their stack, if not first. He actually laughed and said something like "you're kidding right? Who wouldn't have that?". Awkward silence. and I said "Well, I don't." "What do you mean? How is that even possible?" The only way I could explain it in ways he would understand was "I'd rather be poor and have friends than rich with no friends." And he laughed again. I'm not sure if he is sp/sx or sp/so. I started suspecting sp/so until I actually talked to him about it and he seems to find the so instinct absurd.

But anyway, like I said, I would rather have friends than money. I am likely to buy things for my friends and spend my money on booze and other party supplies. There is no material object I care about more than having a good time with my friends. Also, I don't much care about comfort or having a secure place to stay or anything, though I do like to keep the same job, but I suspect that is more because I become very attached to my coworkers. I usually ignore SP matters for a long time, letting bills pile up and nervously avoiding even opening them. The anxiety eventually gets to me, and some feelings of guilt/shame/inadequacy for not being able to take care of adult responsibilities.


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## Kitfool (Oct 24, 2012)

On the bright side, everyone likes me and I have a ton of close friends, so when I need to borrow money or need a place to crash, someone will have it covered. I will pay them back in a heartbeat.


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## Kitfool (Oct 24, 2012)

I forgot to mention that I forgo sleep and food pretty regularly, preferring to socialize or engage my interests for hours on end. Responsibility and health are definitely the least of my concerns most of the time, at least instinctively.


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## pandamonium (Oct 21, 2013)

growing up I always had trouble being independent*, one of my good friends noted that I was not very self-motivated 

I find it easier to mobilize towards contributing something for others than to do something for my own well-being.

I'm scared that taking care of sp-needs will take away from my so-- for instance, moving somewhere for work that's not a community/environment that I find stimulating. but I think these fears get irrational very quickly.

when terrible sp-errors happen (I once had to pay $500 in school library fines- if that's not sp-last I don't know what is) i'm extremely upset for a while but i can shelve that as a kind of disappointment, an "oh well." if i'm suffering problems w/ a friend or lover, it's obsessive and I can't get rid of it. 

despite being a four, i relate to the descriptions of lacking a certain kind of "inwardness," before a certain age

living as sp-last feels often like... falling through the world and pivoting w/ zero center of gravity. and then you learn about the enneagram and stuff and realize that you can develop a center of gravity, you are not simply how you relate to others, you too can learn to ground and care for yourself. and care much less what others think of you, fear their abandonment much less. and that's fucking powerful.



*I think an avg sp-last person can be independent by most traditional definitions of the word, or highly solvent, but still lack that center of gravity.


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## The Scorched Earth (May 17, 2010)

Splash Shin said:


> Looking into more insight. Sp seems like that almost vital instinct to survive and get around in society in one piece, whether it's first in the stack or second.
> 
> I'm wondering a lot lately how being Sp last might be. I have a close suspected Sx/So type 3 friend who from my view tends to have a bit of trouble with financial decisions and thinking through how he uses his money.
> 
> That said, I'm not using him as an example, but it did get me thinking on the subject.


I would imagine it's a bit of feeling unmoored and living somewhat through other people. As someone who values the sense of having a "center," that seems very unnerving to me.


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## Figure (Jun 22, 2011)

Firstly, by that logic non-1-1 people would have trouble reproducing, and non-Soc people would be near-psychopathic, and have trouble maintaining any association to the outside world. Secondly, the good news is, we have all three instincts - all three of these are very important to survival. Thirdly, Self Pres isn't necessarily about knowing how to survive, 1-1 isn't about mating, and Social isn't about being social. 

Fourthly, and IMO most interestingly, any one of these instincts can easily work against what you would think to be the "main goal" of the instinct. For an example, the Self Pres 3 who works so many hours that they actually fall into poor health and burn out of their goals; the 1-1 4 who is so intensely into the distance between themselves and their partners that they never actually find one to keep; the So 1 like myself who is so critical of other people they become anti-social. Instinct-dom is not a proficiency per se. It's more an occupation, and a funnel for the core type.

As a So, things like money, financial well-being, eating well, having the physical surroundings the way I want them to be are actually very, very important. The _reason _they are important to me is different than it is for Self Pres types. Which is because they represent achievement within the outer world - if you have a good job, make good wages, are competent at what you do, can travel, (someday) provide for the people you care about, etc. Being able to do these things is part of the social standard I feel I have to live up to, and also never quite feel satisfied with. What I _don't _do is worry constantly that my savings are not enough, or that my apartment has dust on the floor, that I haven't gotten a flu shot and could get sick, or that I won't have enough time for something I'm doing to be perfect as a Sp 1 may.


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## Sixty Nein (Feb 13, 2011)

Self presentational types might also be super into religion or the like. Or basically anyone who is obsessed with "fixing" themselves, by well doing it themselves. So they might, deliberately even, not even bother with food and the material world. But it is still a form of self pres, as they seek to absolve themselves from the world by hitting the right 'good person' notes and finally getting some of that nirvana/heaven/72 virgin shit or whatever.


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## Kitfool (Oct 24, 2012)

I


pandamonium said:


> growing up I always had trouble being independent*, one of my good friends noted that I was not very self-motivated
> 
> I find it easier to mobilize towards contributing something for others than to do something for my own well-being.
> 
> ...


I've spent so much on library fines they should name a wing after me.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

Keep in mind, even having SP last doesn't mean we don't have it at all, plus, it turns out that So/Sx and Sx/So are often rather good at finding others to cooperate with. 

My wife is Sp/Sx. I give most of my money to her. She takes care of the expenses. We share the household chores. I may grumble about it a bit more, but I see the necessity (most of the time). I never saw the practical purpose of making the bed every day, but it makes my wife happy, therefore, I will do it.


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## username123 (May 21, 2013)

I'm pretty sure that I'm so/sx, and like someone else said, I think I'm bad at taking care of "adult" responsibilities - granted, I'm still in my last year of undergrad, so I'm arguably not a "real" adult yet haha. It does make me feel some guilt and shame about being a little inadequate. But I could go maybe two months without checking my mail. When I move I tend to live out of boxes for months. I had to skip last semester of school, and I finally dropped off my medical leave application yesterday...they may or may not be able to do it retroactively...and this whole time I've known that it's the difference between getting back $25,000 or not. I just kept forgetting. I can get up at 8:30 AM and not realize until 7 at night that I've only eaten about 400 calories. I've left dishes in the sink for so long they've grown furry mold... I can't save money for the life of me. I worked for 6 months last year and only saved $800, which I promptly spent on partying when the paychecks stopped coming in. Then one day I realized I was hungry and only had $1, and was like, huh? How'd this happen? I do laundry maybe once a month when I run out of clean socks. I've gone two years meaning to get a primary care physician and then was left without my medication for a week recently. I tend to have little care for my bodily needs. Granted, I do struggle with substance problems, but last semester there were times I'd subsist on pills, wine, coffee, and energy drinks, avoiding sleep for no apparent reason, and then wonder why all my clothes were baggy. I remember one time thinking to myself, when I was starving, "Ugh. This sucks that I have to go feed myself. This is such a chore. It's like I have a f***ing child or something." Responsibilities just slip my mind...I make sticky notes on my desktop, but it just seems like they become a part of the wallpaper and I forget to read them. I'm just so focused on what I'm interested in that I don't remember trivial things like that. When I do remember something I was supposed to take care of, I get stressed, but then I forget a second later. I have a sort of "oh, it'll work itself out somehow" type of attitude, which could in part be due to the fact that my parents still have my back.


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## Consolidated Potato (Feb 2, 2015)

username123 said:


> * *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Dear lord, and I thought I was bad at self-preservation. :shocked: 

I'm sx/so and I find the mundane aspects of life to be rather tiring and I'd prefer to avoid them if at all possible. I don't really care about "surviving", "outlasting", or any other self-preservational aspects of life. I think people who prepare for apocalypses by buying a bunch of guns and supplies are nutcases and should be institutionalized or committed to one. I'm also okay with taking a moderate amount of risk if the reward is high, although I don't gamble unless I have a bulletproof system to take the casino for all it's worth. Which means I never gamble. :tongue:

I think being Sp last simply means being less of a wuss and living life to its fullest.


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## PurpleAmy (Oct 5, 2014)

When I respond to my SX instinct, I feel energized. When I respond to my SO instinct, I feel soothed. When I respond to my SP instinct, I feel annoyed.

I see a lot of myself in @username123. I rarely binge spend, but mostly because there's not much "out there" that I want to spend on, thankfully. What SP instinct I have is concerned almost exclusively with whether I will literally survive, and even that, I feel somewhat flexible about.

I also have spent a lot of time developing my 5 skills, so while it's still unfulfilling, rational thought does pop up and point out certain consequences. When that happens, it's like my SX instincts are getting kinda excited by the drama being posed by 5's conclusions, and 5 goes and gets SP to stare at SX and say: You're going to die if you do that. Which is almost always hyperbole, but it's a helpful delusion to an extent. Sometimes SO also joins in the rejection of said bad idea, so it becomes: You'll probably end up utterly rejected and alone and/or dead if you do that. And SX is all: Ok, fine.  This might be about checking the mail. It's a delicate balance. 

Note that it's not that my SP instinct is strong - it's that it needs to be screaming at the top of it's lungs to be heard. I am glad it's there though. I'm pretty sure my SX and SO instincts don't get much chance to actualize without SP. Because I recognize the value, but find the internal struggle rather difficult and confusing (due the the limits of my SP), people with stronger SP help me tremendously in see that side of life clearly. I find that very liberating.

Addition: Of course, I could also just misunderstand the instincts and be mistyping myself as well! Please call me out on that if you think so.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

I'm pretty sure I'm sx/so so I'm sp last. I think the way being sp last manifests for me is that say, concerns about my more direct physical survival is rarely at the forefront of my mind. I'm happy as long I got enough money on the table to have some decent supper and do some of the things I enjoy doing. Beyond that, money is a luxury that is nice to have but is not a necessity in what runs my life. The same logic applies to my health and just physical acquisition in general. It's nice but definitely not a must. 

Like sure, I'd like a well-paying job with a stable income like everyone else does, but I'm not like my cousin who I am quite sure is probably sp first, who is a material hoarder. Not only is she a pack-rat but the way she stocks up on material acquisition over time is just crazy. I have lived in my current apartment for like 3 years now, and I still haven't gotten any curtains LOL. These things just don't concern me. Similarly, I don't mind dirty and messy surroundings nearly as some of the other sp types I know, whether it's first or second. I'm a real slob tbh and this only bothers me when I live with other people who I know it would actually bother. Otherwise I find little motivation to take care of myself and my surroundings, may it be in terms of food, health or monetary matters. 

I only tend to really worry about these things when they hit me over the head which I suppose isn't the most mature way of going about it, but I've managed thus far, so meh, whatever.

EDIT
As an addendum to the above, I just realized that all of the sp types I know are fucking pack-rats. WTF? My stepbrother also comes to mind. He couldn't even toss away some box with unused cables when our family was going to move to a new town because "omg what if I neeeeeeeed them" and I'm the very opposite; I was scolded as a child for not seeing the material worth in things and be too eager to throw it away when I didn't want it anymore, not realizing that it could be useful to someone else.


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## Lord Bullingdon (Aug 9, 2014)

Entropic said:


> EDIT
> As an addendum to the above, I just realized that all of the sp types I know are fucking pack-rats. WTF? My stepbrother also comes to mind. He couldn't even toss away some box with unused cables when our family was going to move to a new town because "omg what if I neeeeeeeed them" and I'm the very opposite; I was scolded as a child for not seeing the material worth in things and be too eager to throw it away when I didn't want it anymore, not realizing that it could be useful to someone else.


Just a question...I"m wondering if that part's more of an Si versus Se thing?

Everyone in my family appears to be SJ and NP, and they all have this problem, even the SP-lasts. I recently read someone's thoughts on Se-users throwing things away without a second thought whereas Si-users keep things around because they see the potential future uses in such things (true of my own mindset). Seems like as likely an explanation as instincts.


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## DomNapoleon (Jan 21, 2012)

It's a bloody nightmare. We are constantly neglecting sp instinct stuff and have lost of ground. Sometimes we can be too immature, the eternal child who refuses to grow up, lack of determination and goals in life, lack of stability and lack of focus. Sometimes we try to overcome this by over indulging in sp instinct which in my case brings terrible hypochondriac tendencies.


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## DomNapoleon (Jan 21, 2012)

double post


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## Kitfool (Oct 24, 2012)

The Typeless Wonder said:


> Just a question...I"m wondering if that part's more of an Si versus Se thing?
> 
> Everyone in my family appears to be SJ and NP, and they all have this problem, even the SP-lasts. I recently read someone's thoughts on Se-users throwing things away without a second thought whereas Si-users keep things around because they see the potential future uses in such things (true of my own mindset). Seems like as likely an explanation as instincts.


just my two cents because most of the people I am close to are either sp first or sp second, I agree with entropic that most sp firsts are packrats. Idk if that really has much to do with si and ne, but they could factor in. I know I throw things away without a second thought and my sister who is an ISFP sp/sx is a serious packrat. My dad is ISTP sp/sx and has all these boxes with every charger ever made. I wouldn't really call him a packrat, but he definitely holds on to things if he thinks there is a tiny chance that he might need it some day.


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## He's a Superhero! (May 1, 2013)

What I'd like to know is what SP lasts' think of people with a strong SP influence in their life? I was wondering this recently actually, as I know that my SP instinct is very apparent and easy to stop despite it being my second instinct in my stacking (Sx/SP). Do you guys see it as annoying? Do you see it as more of a positive thing or more negative? What advice would you give to someone who you deem "too focused" on their SP instinct?


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## PurpleAmy (Oct 5, 2014)

@He's a Superhero! When they want to interact, I tend to enjoy the dynamic, especially with someone I know. If I get a good vibe, I'll tend to let my SO side come out a bit more to set them at ease, and ease into my more... intense... SX side. If they annoy me, I tend to use SX to repel them by demonstrating how comfortably I can push them way out of their comfort zone. 
I do seem to rather enjoy challenging them.

As with any stack, if they're obsessive and anxious about one instinct all the time, it gets annoying.


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## Sonny (Oct 14, 2008)

Sp things are very difficult for me to be consistent with over a long period, not because I can't do them proficiently, but because it bores the crap out of me. In Instinctual terminology, my attention span is quite Sx-ish, I'm drawn to intensity and want to experience something at it's most extreme and passionate, then move on, Sp needs cannot give me that for more than a moment so remaining focused there requires a lot of energy and over time I can resent the time it costs me. To compensate for this I try really hard to set practical Sp things up with intensity in the first place so they can somewhat take care of themselves once a base is there, but things always change and attention is required to keep things flowing. 

Basically this:



PurpleAmy said:


> When I respond to my SX instinct, I feel energized. When I respond to my SO instinct, I feel soothed. When I respond to my SP instinct, I feel annoyed.


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## Sonny (Oct 14, 2008)

o0india0o said:


> I have a few SP last friends.
> 
> Their houses always seem to be really messy.


Some of the messiest people I've known were Sp firsts... couldn't throw a damn thing out! :wink:


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## o0india0o (Mar 17, 2015)

Sonny said:


> Some of the messiest people I've known were Sp firsts... couldn't throw a damn thing out! :wink:


Ha Ha Ha! That's _so_ true! I should have thought of that too, because my husband is like this! I'm much more of a minimalist, but he (a fellow SP-Dom) seems to hold memories in physical objects. I just make sure to have a super awesome organization system for our household, and all of his collections.


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## INTJellectual (Oct 22, 2011)

Kitfool said:


> "I'd rather be poor and have friends than rich with no friends."


You know, it reminds me of someone who has a strong So-instinct and Sp as his last instinct. He's a husband of my friend who's an Sp/Sx and So-last. Those couple would sometimes argue when it comes to money. The So-dom's motto is:

"Money is not to be saved. It is meant to spend on experiences and important people in your life."

While he may have a point, his wife would sometimes vent to me like he is lending money to his friends and overlooking the needs of their children. I said that if he run into politics, he might win. He looks charismatic, has sweet-tongue and gentle manners, and looks very adroit when it comes to socializing.

The Sp-dom wife on the other hand is not concerned about group of friends, and her first priority are the house, the children, and of course, the budget. She's very good at saving and handling money I must say.


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## Le9acyMuse (Mar 12, 2010)

Coping with attracting (soc) and maintaining (sx) relationships has been altered for me, so I couldn't answer as thoroughly as I prefer. When I was younger I was _less _influenced by altering factors, but I'm not sure how useful it will be. ugh

Like an earlier commenter put, personal needs were met indirectly. I measured my...success majorly by external standards-things I could mirror or feel naturally aligned with. Hunger, sleep, liability, exhaustion, they were felt and sated within reason, but only when it unacceptably interfered with enjoying others. It's Social, but...it just got worse because invalidation rarely stopped being a problem to compensate for. I can't tell where normal Soc/Sx spanned or ended. Any sense of SP was overshadowed twofold. I was more busy _desiring_ it through others.

The only time I feel more in touch with SP is when I get "healthier," but it's accompanied by hatred. However, I'm able to think steps ahead without a problem, and it's not bothersome to nip trap doors in the bud. It's fun, even. I think satisfying Soc/Sx matters became the more bothersome task, because I couldn't stay appeased by significant people. As a Soc/Sx, I do recognize people are useful, just not very meaningfully anymore.


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## Kitfool (Oct 24, 2012)

I'm sad I stopped getting on PerC for so long and let this thread die. You sp last guys are my soul siblings.  

Have I mentioned yet that I am the messiest person on the face of this planet? Recently my roommates went out of town for a week and that was a big reminder that I can NOT live alone. It's like a free-for-all and I need supervision because I will not keep a place clean for my own sake. I need judgment. 

Join the club, @Lunar Light lol


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