# Verification of Type



## Kirsanov (Jul 30, 2012)

Hello I have taken various personality types but I seem to receive multiple answers. More recently the tests have consistently reported a specific type so I was wondering if by answering a question form you guys could help me figure out my type. My keys 2 cognition report is as follows. If you have any questions please respond. It seems from various research that I'm definitely an I and T, but from there is where it gets kind of tricky. I strongly hold to my values especially in my faith, but some of these values may contradict the changing values of society. Furthermore I love observing and listening as will be later stated with my curiosity quality. I think that I am at a point that sometimes for the personality tests the letters change depending on my mood, or my previous knowledge based on the questions. I just need some help right now.

*1. What are 5 key qualities about you, and what is each of their direct opposites?

Honest--Deceptive
Dependable--Irresponsible
Trustworthy--Deceitful
Thoughtful--Inconsiderate
Curiosity--Controlling

2. Now explain why each of the opposites COULD be you and why it might be GOOD to be that opposite characteristic. Own them even if they are negative traits.

Through deception one may achieve one's goals with the maximum efficiency.

Deceit can turn away those people who are too wishy washy and will not stick around in the future as true friends.

Irresponsibility means I follow my own path without fear of breaking obligations or taking consideration of others around me which might stagnate my progress. 

Consideration and thoughtfulness can lead to unwanted attachments and impulsive actions. Inconsideration helps one to steer clear of unwanted feelings and improves the chance of fulfilling an individual goal.

By controlling a person or event one prevents unwanted consequences. Furthermore curiosity can lead to idle thoughts and ideals which slow down growth. 

3. What would you say to a 5-year-old child if he or she asked you what the purpose of life is?

The purpose of life is to become the best version of yourself by giving yourself to God and others. 

4. What type of advice would you give that same child on how to survive in this world?

You survive in this world through dependability and honesty because together one forms a network of safeguards which helps in trying times. 

5. If you were told you only had one year to live from today, and it was 100% guaranteed that you would die exactly 1 year from now, what would you do in that year? 

During this last year of life I would travel the world and pursue any field of interest since I love to learn. Furthermore I would write letters to every person who has helped me in life thanking them for their involvement. Finally I would thank God for the experiences he has given me in the time he gave me. 

6. Why aren't you doing this now?

Financial reasons hinder me from travelling the globe. Additionally I'm only 18 years old so I am pursuing my love for learning through cost effective means. I like to mostly read, and I feel I have thanked my classmates in one of my more influential classes in high school by writing letters to each of them.

7. What do you really want in your truest self? 

I want to be able to learn knowledge that I can use to help others and not merely indulge my fantasies. Although this does not mean that I dislike fantasies or the power of the imagination.

8. What have you substituted/settled for compared to what you really want?

Sometimes I have submitted to my impulsive actions especially in friendships thinking that maybe a romantic relation may come. The three times I have done this have proven to me to have more patience because romance doesn't come quick and easy. 

9. What are your defense mechanisms?

When I feel threatened I generally attack a person with acerbic diction and point out obvious flaws. I have a sharp temper that comes out a few times a year. To prevent any outbursts I try to stay calm and relax, going on walks or reading helps me from getting to agitated. If I'm not with a group of friends I really like, then I start feeling drained of all energy and want to retreat from all the stimulation. Although I enjoy the stimulation of a museum or some learning experience.

10. What are some good habits that are needed for living a healthy adult life?

One must be somewhat organized or know where their items are to live healthy. Even though I'm not a sports fan, I believe everyone should get their exercise and not simply sloth off for knowledge instead. Learning to listen to others and observe the situation will alleviate much stress when deciding to take action. 

11. What are you like in relaxed and non-threatening situations?

I am normally quiet around people unless I'm very good friends with them. When around family I can be pretty outgoing, but I tend to fluctuate between how loud I talk so sometimes I have to repeat myself due to my low voice. I enjoy being thoughtful and giving to others what they deserve, and as I have mentioned earlier, I like to read. In addition I can be pretty kind and understanding. 

12. What is your predominant fault?

I don't know how to react in situations where a person's emotions are not in order. I have a hard time connecting with others, and I probably am not as vocal as I should be. I am happy with good conversations, but it seems I can only have them with adults. For some reason I am just quieter and I don't know how to say or what to say around my peers. 

13. Think of a time when you felt at ease and connected to yourself and others. What did you think about yourself, others, and the entire world during this time?

I had optimism for the future and I felt God really placed people in our lives for the better. Furthermore I had a sense that knowledge is seen as important and not a waste of time unlike society's popular opinion. 

14. Think of a time when you felt anxious and disconnected from yourself and others. What did you think about yourself, others, and the entire world during this time?

When I was in a big group once, I didn't know how to really act. One person was pretty much the center of attention, and I couldn't really hold the people's thoughts as much as him. I couldn't really get past feeling disconcerted because both of us could say the same thing and other's would listen to him rather than me. Additionally I like for questions to be asked, and no one would ask me any. I just didn't know what the future would hold for me, because I knew I'd have another experience again with similar results in the future. 

15. What is an addiction or urge that seems to drive you as almost as if you’re not in control? Almost like an alien force that drives or pushes you down.

In the pursuit I learning I would sometimes forego a meetup with friends. I'm not sure how they perceive it, but I just don't always feel content when in a social situation. I think who I am going to meet is the biggest factor in anxiety and whether I choose to participate or not. 

16. What things do you feel you cannot do because they might jeopardize your survival?

I would never be dishonest because that would go against my values.

17. What do you need in your life to face your fears?

I think I need to be more trusting of others to face my fear of vocalizing more when with my peers. 

18. What is your own personal mission statement?

How magnified are thy works, O Lord, in wisdom thou hast made them all.*


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

I think you are correctly typed as ISTJ.
It was hard to take in the Si flavoured Te for me.
I don't think I have the energy to analyze it in depth as your focus drains me. XD 
No offence.


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## Kirsanov (Jul 30, 2012)

hornet said:


> I think you are correctly typed as ISTJ.
> It was hard to take in the Si flavoured Te for me.
> I don't think I have the energy to analyze it in depth as your focus drains me. XD
> No offence.


Although most tests label me as an ISTJ, I'm studying the functions right now to figure out my type. Most of the tests annoy me because I greatly enjoy philosophy and abstract thought as well as the facts of history. My two favorite classes in the high school were history and English. I think I have pretty much confirmed that I have Si and Ne, now I need to figure out the differences between Ti and Fe or Te and Fi. 

I like to soak in the environment, and when engaging in debates I listen and think through an answer as well as pick apart the fallacies. Furthermore I normally didn't start the debate, in one of my classes the teacher encouraged debates. He would start the debate with a student, I'd mostly listen and jump in later.

Additionally, I don't think I mentioned it earlier, but when I write I have a tendency to go off on tangents. Eventually I bring the tangent back to the topic after carefully explaining it. My English teacher noted this to me when I was asking him for advice on writing, he also stated that I was deliberate in the way I write. So he told me as long as you can explain the tangent it is fine, even though I sometimes stretch the connection between them a bit. 

One of my doubts about being an ISTJ is the fact that if I can see a way to improve a system then I'd rather change the system then leave it the way it was before. I'm pretty expressive when I'm talking, and I like to try new things (as long as it is legal), especially new foods. Finally, I like to go on long walks to just think about my day, new possibilities, and other random things.


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

This particular questionnaire hits a little closer to Enneagram concerns. Offhand, my feeling is 1w2, though I don't have time to go through it in detail at the moment (class >_>). Anyhow, for that reason, I wonder if you could try a different questionnaire that goes deeper into cognitive function related things.

http://personalitycafe.com/whats-my-personality-type/109783-yet-another-questionnaire.html - on the first page of that thread. Alternatively, Spades' questionnaire, or the main questionnaire; both are located in the stickies. Whichever appeals.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

KingNikolai1 said:


> Although most tests label me as an ISTJ, I'm studying the functions right now to figure out my type. Most of the tests annoy me because I greatly enjoy philosophy and abstract thought as well as the facts of history. My two favorite classes in the high school were history and English. I think I have pretty much confirmed that I have Si and Ne, now I need to figure out the differences between Ti and Fe or Te and Fi.
> 
> I like to soak in the environment, and when engaging in debates I listen and think through an answer as well as pick apart the fallacies. Furthermore I normally didn't start the debate, in one of my classes the teacher encouraged debates. He would start the debate with a student, I'd mostly listen and jump in later.
> 
> ...


I'll take a second look since I'm much more rested today than when I first looked at your thread.

ISFJ isn't impossible, since you mentioned giving yourself to others and god.
But I feel that you are more focused on being effective than a normal SFJ would be.
Any type can hold any value, any type can perform any action.
The only difference is how they get there.

So your religious values may make it seem that you use Fe when in fact you may not.
And your changing of systems may suggest against Si when in fact you are using Ne as a supplement.
ESTJ is also a possibility, being drained in others company only mean that those people drain you,
not that you are an introvert. If you are ESTJ Ne will be higher up than in an ISTJ.

XSTJs struggle with Ni and Fe in particular.


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## Kirsanov (Jul 30, 2012)

_1. Is there anything that may affect the way you answer the questions? For example, a stressful time, mental illness, medications, special life circumstances? Other useful information includes sex, age, and current state of mind._

Nothing particularly going on in my life, except that I start college in a few weeks. I'm an eighteen year old male, and I'm pretty relaxed right now. 

_2. Study these two images _here_ and _here_. Which one do you prefer and why? How would you describe it?
_
I like this one better: http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8287/7704380682_4da6df716d.jpg. For me the Northern, or Southern, Lights in the background show the wonderful science and beauty of the world. Furthermore the darkness denotes the sense of mystery that life has to offer. The water seems rather calm and peacefully crashes in the static image onto the beach. The horizon in the background depicts the movement of life which slowly progresses for better or worse. I especially like the ridges in the water because they seems so cool, I don't know why really. And the mixture of colors throughout the photo is spectacular. I find the other photo a bit distracting compared to this one. The food looks good; the woman meh.

_3. Please describe yourself as a person if you were to introduce yourself to someone else like in a cover letter. What kind of person are you and why?
_
I'm very observant and I don't react immediately unless I'm in a debate with someone. When conversing with others, I enjoy listening their life story and their experiences. Furthermore I sometimes find a conversation that focuses on only a few topics better than one that only delves a little bit into a quadrillion little things. If you need help, I will most certainly aid you unless it involves cheating or dishonesty. I enjoy constructive criticism, but I rarely criticize the feelings of others. I'll be the person to sit there and listen as you pour out your thoughts and feelings. Although I can't really emotionally connect per se with people. I like a quieter lifestyle that has moments of good stimulation throughout the year. I'd like to learn a little bit about everything, and I always have tid bits of experiences or knowledge to interject, if you give me the chance. Overall I sometimes need to be motivated to talk in a group discussion, because I would rather speak one on one with someone who understands me. I respect authority, but I will offer suggestions and am willing to change for the better or improve something. When talking with my peers in school, I feel I never delved really deep because the other people would change the conversation a bit too fast. I'm pretty decisive and strong in my beliefs, although I don't always share them with other people. Respect for other people is a big part of me. I will get along with people unless they piss me off or lose my trust. 

_4. What kind of person would you LIKE to be? Why? What kind of person would you NOT want to be? Why?
_
Sometimes I wish I vocalized myself more because I am normally in the background of things. I never blame other people for this problem, even though it hurts me when I'm in big groups. I'd never want to be a stupid or irresponsible person. In general I am annoyed when a person tries to defend their beliefs without any thought, especially one that I share. People debate with no support for their argument continuously frustrate me. They shouldn't actively fight for something without researching and figuring out a good argument. 

_5. Do you think there are any differences to how you described yourself and how people actually perceive you? How do you think others would describe you? If there are any discrepancies between these two that are you are aware of; do you know why exactly that is?_

I'm not sure what differences there are that contrast the perceived me and who I am. I sometimes wish I could ask someone to explain what they think of me, but I believe that is too personal of a question. I do my own thing, I dress in an old-fashioned style and wear Russian fur hats in the winter. It seems a bit out of place in today's world, especially in America, but I like dressing up. A few times I became angry, although I never showed it, when people questioned what I was wearing. Although if I didn't have older siblings, I'd look pretty mismatched once in a while. Essentially, I'm not sure how people see me.

_6. What in life do you find to be of importance? Why? If you are unsure you can always take the _Value Test_ and post the results here. Do note that it helps if you narrow it down to 20 or ideally 10 values as suggested at stage 2._

I find my faith very important, although I'm not always an active crusader. I'm more of the background person who knows the information and will fight in certain situations. Honesty is important in life because dishonesty just brings hurt and confusion into an already frustrated world. Trustworthiness is a big value in friendship because I confide much in the few friends I have. Responsibility is good in the workplace, don't blame others for your mistakes. I try to be considerate and polite to others, I'd rather not be an asshole. Chivalry and respect go together because they are often forgotten in our society. Family is always important, because next to God and right above friends, they should be always there for you.

_7. How do you react to new situations in your life? Can you describe an event in your life where you were in an unknown situation? How did you deal with it?
_
I try to figure out what is going on before making any sudden moves. I'll describe a bit of my experience at a retreat for my eparchy (diocese) it involved camping. We were there for about three and a half days, I sort of sat back the first day. I watched other people and began to learn people's names and how they act. I was nice of course, and would talk with people if they approached me. The first day and a half I spoke mostly with the adults. I opened up and learned more about those around me as time progressed. I'm not a big fan of completely new situations on a constant basis. I'd rather have a little bit of support, a friend, or know what is going to happen before I just jump right in. To make the best of it, I knew I had to speak up more, so I did.

_8. Please describe yourself when you are in a stressful situation. How do you act and why? Real life experiences are welcome._

When I was in English class, this kid jokingly threatened to destroy our group for a class project by joining it. This was before the groups were selected, so I was pretty tense and didn't want a huge problem to occur. It was the only time I really lost it in school. I started criticizing him and raised my voice. I was very expressive and my whole face turned red as a tremor slightly moved through my body. So I was bit shaky, not my voice just my movements, and extremely outraged. Normally in a situation like that, I have to walk away for a few minutes to regain my composure. Luckily there was so much background noise for some reason, that only a few people realized what happened. 

_9. Please describe yourself when you are in an enjoyable situation. How do you act and why? Real life experiences are welcome.
_
When in an enjoyable situation I'm pretty calm. I like discussions especially small group or one on one. I take into consideration another person's feelings, so I'm not pushy and I let the moment last for as long as possible. This normally happens when I'm discussing something I really enjoyed learning about. I'm pretty decisive and hold my beliefs, but I don't shoot people down unless we are debating beliefs. I like to hear another person's perspective and side of things. 

_10. Describe your relationship to socialization. How do you perceive one-on-one interaction? How do you perceive group interaction?_

Large group conversations (9 or more), unless they are in a class room setting, kind of stink for me. I don't like how two different topics will most likely be discussed because there is too much going on. Medium group coversations (5-8) are much better, and I have learned to express my self more and speak up. I'm really the best in small group (four or less) and one on one conversations. I feel in those two types everyone can say something, and people can really go deep into something without taking up everyone's time. When in a smaller group I try to get everyone involved if I'm guiding the discussion. Even though counselors sometimes annoy me, one on one talks can be some of the most rewarding. Just listening to another person, and picking apart their thoughts can be very enjoyable. 

_11. Describe your relationship to society. What are the elements of it you hold important or unimportant (e.g. social norms, values, customs, traditions)? How do you see people as a whole?_

Society should provide some sort of security so that people don't run around committing murder. Even though I believe in a strong justice system, there is definitely room for mercy. In general I'm conservative, except for a few points where I'm more independent. I don't believe in the death penalty except in extreme circumstances, and I don't think we should cut all funding for those impoverished. Rather welfare should become workfare, where those who need money can work for it through programs instead of forking over a check. I don't think people should be used and then thrown away, and the biggest problem with utilitarianism is that it treats humans as numbers. The greatest good principle has the same flaw as it acts like people are a commodity. Good family values, with the right to express your opinion, is fundamental in a good society. I won't pretend to create a utopia because the definition of utopia is just that, something not of this world. People as a whole all have purpose and can make the world a better place, unfortunately none of us choose the best decision in every situation. 

_12. Describe your relationship to authority. How do you perceive authority? What does it mean to you, and how do you deal with it?_

I believe authority should protect the people, but they must remember they receive power from the people. A strong government can easily take away all your rights, and a government that gives you everything can take it all away in a heartbeat. I trust in authority, but I will protest it if it decides to dictate my values. 

_13. Describe your relationship to order and chaos. What do order and chaos mean to you? How do they manifest in your daily life? _

I would like an orderly society and situation because it allows for a good workplace for ideas and reality. Chaos oftentimes overwhelms us, and we lose track of what our goal originally was. I don't believe everyone needs to plan every hour of their day away though. Generally I just remind myself of the big things or later dates in my planner. Everyone needs a small portion of flexibility, because no plan is set in stone. 

_14. What is it that you fear in life? Why? How does this fear manifest to you both in how you think and how you act?
_
My biggest fear in life is constant uncertainty. I have learned to step back from the facts and admire the big picture because otherwise worrying knocks you down mentally and physically. Uncertainty of what I will do in the future or what is going on in my life. The largest uncertainty comes with other people, there are a few times when I just wish I knew what other people were thinking. It will worry me and drive at my nerves, until I realize there is no point in working yourself up about it. I like mystery in my life, but when something is very uncertain it can just wrack my brain. The unknown in interesting, the partially known can cause so much consternation though...

_15. What is it that you desire in life? What do you strive to achieve? Why? Where do you think these drives and desires stem from or are inspired by?_

I strive to become the best version of myself. I know God created me for a purpose, and that purpose is oftentimes hidden or a mystery. I think by always learning and fostering my curiosity, I can be the person that helps others when they need it. These desires stem from my faith and family.

_16. a) What activities energize you most? b) What activities drain you most? Why?
_
I get energized from engaging discussions and reading. If I'm learning something I'm interested in chances are I'm being energized. Knowledge in general, as well as learning about someone, has this amazing quality to always surprise and interest me. Going on walks to see my surroundings as well as think have always been very gratifying. 

Extremely fiery debates can drain me once they are over. If I don't have time to relax or think a little bit during the day, then I can become very melancholic. Finally, large group discussions with people I'm not very close to can take quite a bit of energy from me.

_17. Why do you want to know your type? What type do you think you are? Why this/these type(s)? Is there a type that appeals to you, to your self-perception, that you would like to be? Why? If you know your _enneagram_, please post this here. If you have done any online function tests such as the _Keys2Cognition_, it helps if you post these results here as well.
_
I'd just like to know my type out of interest. I think humans are so complex that a type could never encompass them entirely. We are all unique, and I think types apply to people not the other way around. I think knowledge of my type might be important in knowing my learning habits. Several tests denoted me as an ISTJ, but certain things make me doubt this. By reading the functions I believe I'm an Si and Ne, but I can't decide between Ti and Fe or Te and Fi. It would be interesting if I did change types though! Although I don't place much emphasis on these simplified tests, for the enneagram I received a 5w1. 

_18. Finally, is there something else you find to be of importance you want to add about yourself you think might be of relevance when helping to type you?

I'm still young and learning about myself as I experience life. Oh and in high school I would sometimes write notes about a particularly hard struggle I had or saw occurring. I tagged people in these notes, and normally I'd get good responses. I'm pretty expressive when giving a speech and writing. Even though I like giving a speech on a topic of interest, I still get pretty nervous and a little bit ancy. So I'm not exactly sure if I'm a strong introvert. I am interested in what people think about me, but I won't change myself to fit their mold. 
_


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

^ This looks excellent. Thanks for answering, I will take a deeper look when school's out.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

You definitely use Te and Fi I would say.

Fi:


> I believe authority should protect the people, but they must remember they receive power from the people. A strong *government can easily take away all your rights*, and a government that gives you everything can take it all away in a heartbeat. I trust in authority, but* I will protest it if it decides to dictate my values. *


Fi wants to follow it's own path.

Te:


> *I would like an orderly society and situation because it allows for a good workplace* for ideas and reality. Chaos oftentimes overwhelms us, and we lose track of what our goal originally was. I don't believe everyone needs to plan every hour of their day away though. *Generally I just remind myself of the big things or later dates in my planner.* Everyone needs a small portion of flexibility, because no plan is set in stone.


A balanced Te perspective?

I would still hedge on XSTJ.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Immediate hunch said ISFJ to me but then I got unsure as I kept reading on and got used to all the Si. You got a strong Ti. Fe seems a little less developed. Ne's there but weak.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

hornet said:


> You definitely use Te and Fi I would say.
> 
> Fi:
> 
> ...


Completely disagree. I see TiFe in the furst quote. The latter chaos has nothing to do with Te but more about Si vs Ne with a speck of Fe and Ti thrown in.


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## nujabes (May 18, 2012)

Well, let's see what we have here.



KingNikolai1 said:


> *8. Please describe yourself when you are in a stressful situation. How do you act and why? Real life experiences are welcome.
> 
> When I was in English class, this kid jokingly threatened to destroy our group for a class project by joining it. This was before the groups were selected, so I was pretty tense and didn't want a huge problem to occur. It was the only time I really lost it in school. I started criticizing him and raised my voice. I was very expressive and my whole face turned red as a tremor slightly moved through my body. So I was bit shaky, not my voice just my movements, and extremely outraged. Normally in a situation like that, I have to walk away for a few minutes to regain my composure. Luckily there was so much background noise for some reason, that only a few people realized what happened. *




Tertiary Ti mixing with aux Fe, driven by inferior Ne. Making me think ISFJ

_



9. Please describe yourself when you are in an enjoyable situation. How do you act and why? Real life experiences are welcome.

Click to expand...

_


> When in an enjoyable situation I'm pretty calm. I like discussions especially small group or one on one. I take into consideration another person's feelings, so I'm not pushy and I let the moment last for as long as possible. This normally happens when I'm discussing something I really enjoyed learning about. I'm pretty decisive and hold my beliefs, but I don't shoot people down unless we are debating beliefs. I like to hear another person's perspective and side of things.


SiFe dom/aux

_



10. Describe your relationship to socialization. How do you perceive one-on-one interaction? How do you perceive group interaction?

Click to expand...

_


> Large group conversations (9 or more), unless they are in a class room setting, kind of stink for me. I don't like how two different topics will most likely be discussed because there is too much going on. Medium group coversations (5-8) are much better, and I have learned to express my self more and speak up. I'm really the best in small group (four or less) and one on one conversations. I feel in those two types everyone can say something, and people can really go deep into something without taking up everyone's time. When in a smaller group I try to get everyone involved if I'm guiding the discussion. Even though counselors sometimes annoy me, one on one talks can be some of the most rewarding. Just listening to another person, and picking apart their thoughts can be very enjoyable.


Obvious introvert
Strong Fe

_



11. Describe your relationship to society. What are the elements of it you hold important or unimportant (e.g. social norms, values, customs, traditions)? How do you see people as a whole?

Click to expand...

_


> Society should provide some sort of security so that people don't run around committing murder. Even though I believe in a strong justice system, there is definitely room for mercy. In general I'm conservative, except for a few points where I'm more independent. I don't believe in the death penalty except in extreme circumstances, and I don't think we should cut all funding for those impoverished. Rather welfare should become workfare, where those who need money can work for it through programs instead of forking over a check. I don't think people should be used and then thrown away, and the biggest problem with utilitarianism is that it treats humans as numbers. The greatest good principle has the same flaw as it acts like people are a commodity. Good family values, with the right to express your opinion, is fundamental in a good society. I won't pretend to create a utopia because the definition of utopia is just that, something not of this world. People as a whole all have purpose and can make the world a better place, unfortunately none of us choose the best decision in every situation.


a comforting familiar that helps everyone based on key principles

Si dom
Fe aux
Ti tert

_



12. Describe your relationship to authority. How do you perceive authority? What does it mean to you, and how do you deal with it?

Click to expand...

_


> I believe authority should protect the people, but they must remember they receive power from the people. A strong government can easily take away all your rights, and a government that gives you everything can take it all away in a heartbeat. I trust in authority, but I will protest it if it decides to dictate my values.


same



> _13. Describe your relationship to order and chaos. What do order and chaos mean to you? How do they manifest in your daily life? _
> 
> I would like an orderly society and situation because it allows for a good workplace for ideas and reality. Chaos oftentimes overwhelms us, and we lose track of what our goal originally was. I don't believe everyone needs to plan every hour of their day away though. Generally I just remind myself of the big things or later dates in my planner. Everyone needs a small portion of flexibility, because no plan is set in stone.


SiNe dom/inf, obviously



> _14. What is it that you fear in life? Why? How does this fear manifest to you both in how you think and how you act?
> _
> My biggest fear in life is constant uncertainty. I have learned to step back from the facts and admire the big picture because otherwise worrying knocks you down mentally and physically. Uncertainty of what I will do in the future or what is going on in my life. The largest uncertainty comes with other people, there are a few times when I just wish I knew what other people were thinking. It will worry me and drive at my nerves, until I realize there is no point in working yourself up about it. I like mystery in my life, but when something is very uncertain it can just wrack my brain. The unknown in interesting, the partially known can cause so much consternation though...


Again, SiNe dom/inf.



> _15. What is it that you desire in life? What do you strive to achieve? Why? Where do you think these drives and desires stem from or are inspired by?_
> 
> I strive to become the best version of myself. I know God created me for a purpose, and that purpose is oftentimes hidden or a mystery. I think by always learning and fostering my curiosity, I can be the person that helps others when they need it. These desires stem from my faith and family.


Heh heh, SiFeTiNe, in that order. Definite pattern!

_



16. a) What activities energize you most? b) What activities drain you most? Why?

Click to expand...

_


> I get energized from engaging discussions and reading. If I'm learning something I'm interested in chances are I'm being energized. Knowledge in general, as well as learning about someone, has this amazing quality to always surprise and interest me. Going on walks to see my surroundings as well as think have always been very gratifying.
> 
> Extremely fiery debates can drain me once they are over. If I don't have time to relax or think a little bit during the day, then I can become very melancholic. Finally, large group discussions with people I'm not very close to can take quite a bit of energy from me.
> 
> ...


ISFJ.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

LeaT said:


> Completely disagree. I see TiFe in the furst quote. The latter chaos has nothing to do with Te but more about Si vs Ne with a speck of Fe and Ti thrown in.


Interesting perspective. And I won't reject it since Fe in this case is just as likely as Fi.
If he is a Ti user I would pin him as an INTP.
An ISFJ wouldn't be so balanced and logical at the same time.
Inferior Fe would explain the draw toward giving to others an god, 
however I've never head about an INTP what would write letters that thank people who contributed to their lives.
That sounds more ISFJ again.
If the Ti/Fe theory holds I don't know... (ISFJ/INTP)
If the Te/Fi holds I would still go for ISTJ.
@KingNicolai1 will have to get his head around the judging functions to be sure himself.
I don't feel capable of continuing as my trying to deepen my knowledge of JCF, 
has made me unsure of everything right now. XD


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## Kirsanov (Jul 30, 2012)

hornet said:


> Interesting perspective. And I won't reject it since Fe in this case is just as likely as Fi.
> If he is a Ti user I would pin him as an INTP.
> An ISFJ wouldn't be so balanced and logical at the same time.
> Inferior Fe would explain the draw toward giving to others an god,
> ...


I must admit I don't really do the letters very often, only on special occasions. Although I'd say communicating wise I'd prefer face to face or letters rather than texting or talking on the phone. Not sure if this really helps much at all. When I'm contemplating something normally I'm sitting down, but I also pace when I'm thinking something (I think this is where the walking comes in). And interest wise, I've never been much of a sports person, I'd rather spectate instead.

I know this probably won't help at all, but I'd like to add a rather perplexing thing that occurs when I think or am in a debate. When I read, I consciously pick up and dissect different elements of the literary/historical/scientific piece. Even though I'm not constantly thinking about the object that I just read, or what I processed, the knowledge seems to be remembered when I discuss it. It is like I don't purposely memorize quotes or the information, but when I need it my mind recalls it in the relevant situation. Same thing with experiences, I have always wondered if anyone else's mind does the same thing? On a side note, I don't have photographic memory, although mine is pretty good. 

@Flatlander Thank you for the questionnaire, it seems to have greatly promoted discussion.


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

>_> Thanks for calling my attention back, I still need to read your answers. I had a hunch you'd like it.


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

KingNikolai1 said:


> _1. Is there anything that may affect the way you answer the questions? For example, a stressful time, mental illness, medications, special life circumstances? Other useful information includes sex, age, and current state of mind._
> 
> Nothing particularly going on in my life, except that I start college in a few weeks. I'm an eighteen year old male, and I'm pretty relaxed right now.
> 
> ...


This looks indicative of Si. Good, detailed, positively used Si. 

_



3. Please describe yourself as a person if you were to introduce yourself to someone else like in a cover letter. What kind of person are you and why?

Click to expand...

_


> I'm very observant and I don't react immediately unless I'm in a debate with someone. When conversing with others, I enjoy listening their life story and their experiences. Furthermore I sometimes find a conversation that focuses on only a few topics better than one that only delves a little bit into a quadrillion little things. If you need help, I will most certainly aid you unless it involves cheating or dishonesty. I enjoy constructive criticism, but I rarely criticize the feelings of others. I'll be the person to sit there and listen as you pour out your thoughts and feelings. Although I can't really emotionally connect per se with people. I like a quieter lifestyle that has moments of good stimulation throughout the year. I'd like to learn a little bit about everything, and I always have tid bits of experiences or knowledge to interject, if you give me the chance. Overall I sometimes need to be motivated to talk in a group discussion, because I would rather speak one on one with someone who understands me. I respect authority, but I will offer suggestions and am willing to change for the better or improve something. When talking with my peers in school, I feel I never delved really deep because the other people would change the conversation a bit too fast. I'm pretty decisive and strong in my beliefs, although I don't always share them with other people. Respect for other people is a big part of me. I will get along with people unless they piss me off or lose my trust.


This reads, generally, Si with a good mix of Feeling and Thinking. You are clearly inclined toward a focused depth with people, which to me indicates a leaning toward introversion.

I get a basic feel of Fi, too, but am not certain.

_



4. What kind of person would you LIKE to be? Why? What kind of person would you NOT want to be? Why?

Click to expand...

_


> Sometimes I wish I vocalized myself more because I am normally in the background of things. I never blame other people for this problem, even though it hurts me when I'm in big groups. I'd never want to be a stupid or irresponsible person. In general I am annoyed when a person tries to defend their beliefs without any thought, especially one that I share. People debate with no support for their argument continuously frustrate me. They shouldn't actively fight for something without researching and figuring out a good argument.


Intriguing. I think Te/Fi: the holding of your own beliefs as personally special, and the need for researched support.


_



5. Do you think there are any differences to how you described yourself and how people actually perceive you? How do you think others would describe you? If there are any discrepancies between these two that are you are aware of; do you know why exactly that is?

Click to expand...

_


> I'm not sure what differences there are that contrast the perceived me and who I am. I sometimes wish I could ask someone to explain what they think of me, but I believe that is too personal of a question. I do my own thing, I dress in an old-fashioned style and wear Russian fur hats in the winter. It seems a bit out of place in today's world, especially in America, but I like dressing up. A few times I became angry, although I never showed it, when people questioned what I was wearing. Although if I didn't have older siblings, I'd look pretty mismatched once in a while. Essentially, I'm not sure how people see me.


Definitively, an Introvert. Probably Si, maybe with Fi.

_



6. What in life do you find to be of importance? Why? If you are unsure you can always take the

Click to expand...

_


> Value Test_ and post the results here. Do note that it helps if you narrow it down to 20 or ideally 10 values as suggested at stage 2._
> 
> I find my faith very important, although I'm not always an active crusader. I'm more of the background person who knows the information and will fight in certain situations. Honesty is important in life because dishonesty just brings hurt and confusion into an already frustrated world. Trustworthiness is a big value in friendship because I confide much in the few friends I have. Responsibility is good in the workplace, don't blame others for your mistakes. I try to be considerate and polite to others, I'd rather not be an asshole. Chivalry and respect go together because they are often forgotten in our society. Family is always important, because next to God and right above friends, they should be always there for you.


I think you aren't weak in the Feeling function, be it Fe or Fi. I'm shying away from Fi dominant because I don't think Thinking is your weakness, and Fi would come with inferior Te.

_



7. How do you react to new situations in your life? Can you describe an event in your life where you were in an unknown situation? How did you deal with it?

Click to expand...

_


> I try to figure out what is going on before making any sudden moves. I'll describe a bit of my experience at a retreat for my eparchy (diocese) it involved camping. We were there for about three and a half days, I sort of sat back the first day. I watched other people and began to learn people's names and how they act. I was nice of course, and would talk with people if they approached me. The first day and a half I spoke mostly with the adults. I opened up and learned more about those around me as time progressed. I'm not a big fan of completely new situations on a constant basis. I'd rather have a little bit of support, a friend, or know what is going to happen before I just jump right in. To make the best of it, I knew I had to speak up more, so I did.


Si, and this looks Fe/Ti.

_



8. Please describe yourself when you are in a stressful situation. How do you act and why? Real life experiences are welcome.

Click to expand...

_


> When I was in English class, this kid jokingly threatened to destroy our group for a class project by joining it. This was before the groups were selected, so I was pretty tense and didn't want a huge problem to occur. It was the only time I really lost it in school. I started criticizing him and raised my voice. I was very expressive and my whole face turned red as a tremor slightly moved through my body. So I was bit shaky, not my voice just my movements, and extremely outraged. Normally in a situation like that, I have to walk away for a few minutes to regain my composure. Luckily there was so much background noise for some reason, that only a few people realized what happened.


Did you really think he would do it? You describe it now as "jokingly" done; did you realize this in the heat of the moment?

_



9. Please describe yourself when you are in an enjoyable situation. How do you act and why? Real life experiences are welcome.

Click to expand...

_


> When in an enjoyable situation I'm pretty calm. I like discussions especially small group or one on one. I take into consideration another person's feelings, so I'm not pushy and I let the moment last for as long as possible. This normally happens when I'm discussing something I really enjoyed learning about. I'm pretty decisive and hold my beliefs, but I don't shoot people down unless we are debating beliefs. I like to hear another person's perspective and side of things.


I am starting to think you have decent Fe.

_



10. Describe your relationship to socialization. How do you perceive one-on-one interaction? How do you perceive group interaction?

Click to expand...

_


> Large group conversations (9 or more), unless they are in a class room setting, kind of stink for me. I don't like how two different topics will most likely be discussed because there is too much going on. Medium group coversations (5-8) are much better, and I have learned to express my self more and speak up. I'm really the best in small group (four or less) and one on one conversations. I feel in those two types everyone can say something, and people can really go deep into something without taking up everyone's time. When in a smaller group I try to get everyone involved if I'm guiding the discussion. Even though counselors sometimes annoy me, one on one talks can be some of the most rewarding. Just listening to another person, and picking apart their thoughts can be very enjoyable.


I think Fe/Ti - you know how the tertiary function is the "child" of the dominant "parent"? Picking apart people's thoughts "can be very enjoyable", perhaps speaking to this idea, and with that focus I'm still seeing dominant introverted function.

_



11. Describe your relationship to society. What are the elements of it you hold important or unimportant (e.g. social norms, values, customs, traditions)? How do you see people as a whole?

Click to expand...

_


> Society should provide some sort of security so that people don't run around committing murder. Even though I believe in a strong justice system, there is definitely room for mercy. In general I'm conservative, except for a few points where I'm more independent. I don't believe in the death penalty except in extreme circumstances, and I don't think we should cut all funding for those impoverished. Rather welfare should become workfare, where those who need money can work for it through programs instead of forking over a check. I don't think people should be used and then thrown away, and the biggest problem with utilitarianism is that it treats humans as numbers. The greatest good principle has the same flaw as it acts like people are a commodity. Good family values, with the right to express your opinion, is fundamental in a good society. I won't pretend to create a utopia because the definition of utopia is just that, something not of this world. People as a whole all have purpose and can make the world a better place, unfortunately none of us choose the best decision in every situation.


Fe style values, check. Ti style justification, check. Si-style realism? Definitely.

_



12. Describe your relationship to authority. How do you perceive authority? What does it mean to you, and how do you deal with it?

Click to expand...

_


> I believe authority should protect the people, but they must remember they receive power from the people. A strong government can easily take away all your rights, and a government that gives you everything can take it all away in a heartbeat. I trust in authority, but I will protest it if it decides to dictate my values.


 I still think Fe and Ti. You are the people, if I'm not mistaken.

_



13. Describe your relationship to order and chaos. What do order and chaos mean to you? How do they manifest in your daily life?

Click to expand...

_


> I would like an orderly society and situation because it allows for a good workplace for ideas and reality. Chaos oftentimes overwhelms us, and we lose track of what our goal originally was. I don't believe everyone needs to plan every hour of their day away though. Generally I just remind myself of the big things or later dates in my planner. Everyone needs a small portion of flexibility, because no plan is set in stone.


You put this into the context of your present situation, suggests that groundedness I think of with strong Si. It is mildly suggestive of Si/Fe rather than Si/Te because of the flexibility.

_



14. What is it that you fear in life? Why? How does this fear manifest to you both in how you think and how you act?

Click to expand...

_


> My biggest fear in life is constant uncertainty. I have learned to step back from the facts and admire the big picture because otherwise worrying knocks you down mentally and physically. Uncertainty of what I will do in the future or what is going on in my life. The largest uncertainty comes with other people, there are a few times when I just wish I knew what other people were thinking. It will worry me and drive at my nerves, until I realize there is no point in working yourself up about it. I like mystery in my life, but when something is very uncertain it can just wrack my brain. The unknown in interesting, the partially known can cause so much consternation though...


And here I was, thinking your Ne was inferior.

I think it still might be. Ne wants to project into the concrete world around you - but you are used to being grounded in your own perceptions and using them to understand the world. So sure, the world around you is partly known and understood through your dominant Si, but you probably feel inferior when the possibilities behind its perspective manifest themselves to you.

The possibility for inferior Fe is, of course, there, but this strikes me as too generalized.

_



15. What is it that you desire in life? What do you strive to achieve? Why? Where do you think these drives and desires stem from or are inspired by?

Click to expand...

_


> I strive to become the best version of myself. I know God created me for a purpose, and that purpose is oftentimes hidden or a mystery. I think by always learning and fostering my curiosity, I can be the person that helps others when they need it. These desires stem from my faith and family.


There's that Enneagram 1w2-ish-ness poking through, that I saw in the other questionnaire. I will go through that one later.

_



16. a) What activities energize you most? b) What activities drain you most? Why?

Click to expand...

_


> I get energized from engaging discussions and reading. If I'm learning something I'm interested in chances are I'm being energized. Knowledge in general, as well as learning about someone, has this amazing quality to always surprise and interest me. Going on walks to see my surroundings as well as think have always been very gratifying.
> 
> Extremely fiery debates can drain me once they are over. If I don't have time to relax or think a little bit during the day, then I can become very melancholic. Finally, large group discussions with people I'm not very close to can take quite a bit of energy from me.


Si and Fe and Ti stand out clearly. Si seems like how you relax and be yourself. You clearly do engage with people and you are interested in them, in an Fe-ish way, but you don't want to be enveloped in their world.

_



17. Why do you want to know your type? What type do you think you are? Why this/these type(s)? Is there a type that appeals to you, to your self-perception, that you would like to be? Why? If you know your

Click to expand...

_


> enneagram_, please post this here. If you have done any online function tests such as the _Keys2Cognition_, it helps if you post these results here as well.
> _
> I'd just like to know my type out of interest. I think humans are so complex that a type could never encompass them entirely. We are all unique, and I think types apply to people not the other way around. I think knowledge of my type might be important in knowing my learning habits. Several tests denoted me as an ISTJ, but certain things make me doubt this. By reading the functions I believe I'm an Si and Ne, but I can't decide between Ti and Fe or Te and Fi. It would be interesting if I did change types though! Although I don't place much emphasis on these simplified tests, for the enneagram I received a 5w1.


You do have 5-like elements. Technically there is no such thing as a 5w1 in the (official) Enneagram, it would be either a 5w4 or a 5w6 (of which you would probably be the latter).

1 still seems like a strong possibility, though. Thought I saw some 2ish points. Maybe also 9ish. 

_



18. Finally, is there something else you find to be of importance you want to add about yourself you think might be of relevance when helping to type you?

I'm still young and learning about myself as I experience life. Oh and in high school I would sometimes write notes about a particularly hard struggle I had or saw occurring. I tagged people in these notes, and normally I'd get good responses. I'm pretty expressive when giving a speech and writing. Even though I like giving a speech on a topic of interest, I still get pretty nervous and a little bit ancy. So I'm not exactly sure if I'm a strong introvert. I am interested in what people think about me, but I won't change myself to fit their mold.

Click to expand...

_I think you are a strong introvert. I also think you aren't introverted to an unhealthy or unproductive level.

At this point, my conclusion is ISFJ. Possibly subject to change with further information.


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## Kirsanov (Jul 30, 2012)

Flatlander said:


> This looks indicative of Si. Good, detailed, positively used Si.
> 
> _
> 
> ...


_

Thanks for the response. I'm not an enneagram fanatic that is why the website I took it on just used the top two scored elements. What information would you like for consideration?_


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

KingNikolai1 said:


> Thanks for the response. I'm not an enneagram fanatic that is why the website I took it on just used the top two scored elements. What information would you like for consideration?


I'll take a look at your previous questionnaire and see if I can't figure it out from that, since you already filled it out, and it was originally made to consider Enneagram type. If I have questions or need something, I will ask.

I don't want to make you fill out a whole new questionnaire. I don't know about you, but I find it takes real work to fill these out.


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## petitpèlerin (Apr 23, 2012)

ENFP is possible. I think Ne is strong, and N higher than S. I think there's more Si in there than Se, although not necessarily strong Si, and not necessarily high T, either. F is much stronger than T, and I'm getting Fi, not Fe. Values are very important to you.

The Russian fur hat is strong evidence that you're ENFx. My ENFx friends all love big, furry hats: some with lumberjack ear flaps, some with animal ears, etc.  (I'm just kidding, by the way, but it is funny.)

Another good possibility would be INFP, depending on your introversion and extroversion. xNFP is often tricky there.



> I know this probably won't help at all, but I'd like to add a rather perplexing thing that occurs when I think or am in a debate. When I read, I consciously pick up and dissect different elements of the literary/historical/scientific piece. Even though I'm not constantly thinking about the object that I just read, or what I processed, the knowledge seems to be remembered when I discuss it. It is like I don't purposely memorize quotes or the information, but when I need it my mind recalls it in the relevant situation.


Is this Ne? I don't do this _at all_, but it reminds me of my Ne-dominant friends. I never understood how they could do that.



> During this last year of life I would travel the world and pursue any field of interest since I love to learn. Furthermore I would write letters to every person who has helped me in life thanking them for their involvement. Finally I would thank God for the experiences he has given me in the time he gave me.


This sounds like such an ENFP response to me. Just saying.


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## Kirsanov (Jul 30, 2012)

Flatlander said:


> I'll take a look at your previous questionnaire and see if I can't figure it out from that, since you already filled it out, and it was originally made to consider Enneagram type. If I have questions or need something, I will ask.
> 
> I don't want to make you fill out a whole new questionnaire. I don't know about you, but I find it takes real work to fill these out.


Yes, the questionnaires definitely took much thought and effort, something I probably wouldn't do if I wasn't interested.

Oh and in response to your query concerning when I blew up. I didn't realize until a few minutes after the incident that the kid was jokingly trying to break the group. I'm open to change and a new possibility unless I already know the person won't work, which in this case came from previous experience. It takes me a few minutes to process data and somewhat longer for emotions. In truth I can decipher emotions through the physical, I've never been able to get at what is beneath the surface of other people unless they tell me. Sometimes what is displayed outwardly is a reflection of the turmoil on the inside though.


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## Kirsanov (Jul 30, 2012)

ltldslwmn said:


> ENFP is possible. I think Ne is strong, and N higher than S. I think there's more Si in there than Se, although not necessarily strong Si, and not necessarily high T, either. F is much stronger than T, and I'm getting Fi, not Fe. Values are very important to you.
> 
> The Russian fur hat is strong evidence that you're ENFx. My ENFx friends all love big, furry hats: some with lumberjack ear flaps, some with animal ears, etc.  (I'm just kidding, by the way, but it is funny.)
> 
> ...


Wow I must say that is some different insight than others have suggested. I'll have to ponder those options also  And I love my Russian fur hat and medium-long dress coat. I wanted an overcoat, but none of them particularly fit me very well. I've always thought Russian fur hats and long beards (not as much the scraggly ones) were the coolest things. I think my Russian heritage is now dominating my interests for the time being.

Sorry for the double post, I'm too lazy to cut and paste.


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

LeaT said:


> Of course 5 can do that, but the question 2 is then, why is he a 5 as an SJ?


Because any MBTI type can be any Enneagram type; there are no rules strictly prohibiting it. I was pointing out that the _style_ looks overall Ti, not that all 5s must be Ti, otherwise we wouldn't have IxTJ 5s around, even one ESTJ now.



> I don't know about you, but something is awfully off here and I am not even thinking about enneagram anymore but more deeply about who he is as a person. Truly genuinely so. I feel that he's projecting like a clusterfuck.


I never got that feeling. To me he looks like someone who is relatively grounded, with an emphasis in his own history and knowledge. It is potentially quite characteristic of the dominant Sensing type to seek knowledge, and be careful in their analysis of it.



> Type or not. I don't care about that either. All I know is that my gut is screaming that ISFJ is not right. ISFJ just doesn't make sense to me. Even an ISFJ 5 would... I don't know, truly sound like an ISFJ at some point?


How do ISFJs truly sound?

How do INTPs truly sound?

Can you make a generalization that will always fit? It seems to me like functions (and their use) are _potentially_ more fluid than MBTI lets on, so you can build theories that you think cover an INTP and find they also cover a balanced ISFJ in certain ways.



> Enneagram can confuse things yes, but enneagram and MBTI got nothing in common. They describe two different orientations of one's persona.


What they do have in common is their appearance on a person's surface. We are in a forum, and we are still getting a sort of surface appearance here - the person's own writing, produced subjective content. Once you know a person's Enneagram type, it is critical to take it into context.



> I mean, I COULD be enneagram 4 as a core (I do think I am 5 with a very strong 4 wing but that aside) and this makes me seem INFP-ish, especially to other F users apparently.


Yes.



> extraverted Sensing (Se) ********* (9.2)
> unusedintroverted Sensing (Si) ************************* (25.4)
> average useextraverted Intuiting (Ne) ******************************************* (43.7)
> excellent useintroverted Intuiting (Ni) ********************************* (33.5)
> ...


Does his Si use strike you as unhealthy? If you read his answers to the second questionnaire, did it not suggest inferior Ne in the part about uncertainty? How about his attitude toward people - does it strike you as being characteristic of inferior Fe?



> But these are my personal gut feelings.


The key here is to figure out what's driving them, to get reasoning on the table for analysis, maybe look back at the specific picture for evidence.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Flatlander said:


> Because any MBTI type can be any Enneagram type; there are no rules strictly prohibiting it. I was pointing out that the _style_ looks overall Ti, not that all 5s must be Ti, otherwise we wouldn't have IxTJ 5s around, even one ESTJ now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I understand your concerns. What I'm more curious about really is that the initial consensus was ISFJ, then why are we still discussing this?

And of course you can probably not make generalizations that always fit, but I think that when it clicks it REALLY clicks. None of it that we know now clicks. 

It's not necessarily a level of health or unhealth even. Not like the ISTP who thought he was an INFJ. But there's something else, and as usual I can't vocalize my gut until it clicks. And surely you know feel that too since you're seemingly not satisfied with ISFJ either? Otherwise this thread would be closed and done by now.


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

LeaT said:


> I understand your concerns. What I'm more curious about really is that the initial consensus was ISFJ, then why are we still discussing this?


I was going on discussing things with him because he seemed interested. I kind of naturally turn to analysis in interactions with people, which is actually a tendency I've been working on subverting in the interest of meaningful discussion in different directions. Is the debate still out? I don't know.



> And of course you can probably not make generalizations that always fit, but I think that when it clicks it REALLY clicks. None of it that we know now clicks.


It hasn't clicked for you.

I think it's clicked for some of us. As for myself, I'm leaning toward _probable_ ISFJ, but not really trying to press the issue anymore.. hah, probably because it makes less sense to do this with a strong subjective perceiver. They're relying on their own vision of themselves, and input from the external world on this front is likely to be considered in a predominantly subjective manner.



> It's not necessarily a level of health or unhealth even. Not like the ISTP who thought he was an INFJ. But there's something else, and as usual I can't vocalize my gut until it clicks. And surely you know feel that too since you're seemingly not satisfied with ISFJ either? Otherwise this thread would be closed and done by now.


I kind of like talking to him. He just keeps the information coming, in a laid back sort of way, and it's interspersed with questions.

I know what you're dealing with here, though. I've been there. When it comes to you, do post.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Flatlander said:


> I was going on discussing things with him because he seemed interested. I kind of naturally turn to analysis in interactions with people, which is actually a tendency I've been working on subverting in the interest of meaningful discussion in different directions. Is the debate still out? I don't know.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


INTP clicks


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## Kirsanov (Jul 30, 2012)

Wow, I come back from work and shopping for college to this. I don't know what to say really. 

@_Flatlander_ Your input has been helpful, and I suppose you'd have to point out a few specific areas if you want the motives behind why I think in such a way. 

@_LeaT_ Yes, I have gone to private schools my whole life, and religion is an emphasis in my family. I don't think in any way my parents necessarily forced it upon me, although I'd say I wouldn't be as knowledgeable about it if I wasn't interested. I'd say going into high school I had major questions concerning theology and spirituality. By slowly learning, asking people who knew the answers, and making my own opinion I decided where I needed to be. I will admit I haven't always had the best experiences with my father which did probably make me more of a mom's boy. 

To go off topic a little bit, I must emphasize respect. I don't always have the same opinion as others, and I really must say that I don't always care what other people think. Would I like them to think my way, of course. Will I actively try to make them believe forcefully, no. I defend my faith, I'm not the typical crusader though. In that sense I'm reactive rather than proactive. 

Learning has been a part of me since I was a child. To let you know a little bit of personal information, I never walked until I was around two years old. The doctor thought I would be disabled, but turns out I had back problems. I wasn't the healthiest of babies. My mother did tell me I was always curious. Because I didn't learn to walk until a delayed period I was patient. I would sit and play with my toys or observe while other kids ran around like little devils and would do all sorts of things. In kindergarten I did my own thing for the most part of it, I've never made friends easily. Truthfully I don't like tight crowds. Do I mind giving a presentation or teaching someone something, no. But when it comes to just relaxing, I'd rather be with a much smaller group. I listen to people's opinions, but I don't necessarily agree with them always. Again, unless it is blatantly wrong, I dislike correcting people. When I drive if the radio isn't on, then I sometimes go on extended fantasies. I imagine things that could have happened, and things that might go on in the future. I normally don't tell many people these things because, unless it is family, they see it as extremely odd. Same with stuff I know, some subjects I could go hours upon hours about it, most people want a short little excerpt though. I like harmony, but too much of it leads to mushy-gushy crap. There was one teacher who I never cared for their teaching style because they were way too structured. Everyday there was a plan and we had to stick the plan (I mean really, that doesn't work so well in reality or in a fantasy). Do I like a changing and possibly stimulating world, most definitely. Do I often change my values though, no. 

To close this rather long post, I don't really love it when people talk about my achievements or flattery always. A comment from a person who scarcely gives them goes much farther than the people who always give them in half-hearted ways. I'm not the world changing person, but I will change people in my life. I'm not the pot-stirrer, but let's say my mother told me that at a rather young age my god-father (who is very smart) said I'd grow up to be an intellectual. I don't know where I stand, because people just blow my minds often times (In a good way, although it has happened in a negative way a few times).


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

KingNikolai1 said:


> When I drive if the radio isn't on, then I sometimes go on extended fantasies. I imagine things that could have happened, and things that might go on in the future. I normally don't tell many people these things because, unless it is family, they see it as extremely odd.


I don't see it as inferior here. That's the problem. If I were to speak of my tertiary, my Si, I can't say I am fond of it or I like it. My perception of it as such is that I try to deny the existence of it. I have recently come to the conclusion that I do however use Si more than I probably want to admit and this is what I see you doing. You have learnt to repress Ne or deny Ne somehow. I do see Ne to fit you better in an aux or tertiary position than inferior.


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## Kirsanov (Jul 30, 2012)

LeaT said:


> I don't see it as inferior here. That's the problem. If I were to speak of my tertiary, my Si, I can't say I am fond of it or I like it. My perception of it as such is that I try to deny the existence of it. I have recently come to the conclusion that I do however use Si more than I probably want to admit and this is what I see you doing. You have learnt to repress Ne or deny Ne somehow. I do see Ne to fit you better in an aux or tertiary position than inferior.


I do have this analogy which compares the body to a medieval fortress that is under siege when it gets sick. I've only told maybe one person this, because other people simply dismiss it. So the beginning symptoms are when the enemy (virus or bacteria) first attack the parapets of the castle. Once they have broken through you start to really show sickness. If they reach the castle keep then you have a life threatening illness. If you take vitamins then they all have a specific purpose. The vitamin C acts as the main force, zinc helps maintain the damaged walls. Vitamin E will go to the heart and keep the workers from going havoc and ruining the streamlining of the castle. Fish oil (if you take it) acts like hot oil which pour over the enemy troops when they are scaling the wall. Vitamin D itself helps the walls and keeps up the production of weapons. Garlic is a specialized force which deals with enemies, and Echinacea reinforces the garlic. I know it is extremely ridiculous, but to me, it always made sense. I enjoy what if questions if they are thoughtful, but I don't really ask them because they can be rather complex. For instance one that I created and still need to figure out is: 

If the Drake equation was proven with evidence, and such evidence asserted that Descarte's "cogito ergo sum" was the principle of life. How would you prove to the other inquiring life form that humanity thinks and as a result exists?

I was thinking about posting it on facebook, but I don't think many people will respond. Just a hunch though...

Edit: I try not to go too far when I'm in the car if I'm driving. One time, when I still had my permit, I hit a curve because I wasn't paying attention to the road.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

KingNikolai1 said:


> I do have this analogy which compares the body to a medieval fortress that is under siege when it gets sick. I've only told maybe one person this, because other people simply dismiss it. So the beginning symptoms are when the enemy (virus or bacteria) first attack the parapets of the castle. Once they have broken through you start to really show sickness. If they reach the castle keep then you have a life threatening illness. If you take vitamins then they all have a specific purpose. The vitamin C acts as the main force, zinc helps maintain the damaged walls. Vitamin E will go to the heart and keep the workers from going havoc and ruining the streamlining of the castle. Fish oil (if you take it) acts like hot oil which pour over the enemy troops when they are scaling the wall. Vitamin D itself helps the walls and keeps up the production of weapons. Garlic is a specialized force which deals with enemies, and Echinacea reinforces the garlic. I know it is extremely ridiculous, but to me, it always made sense. I enjoy what if questions if they are thoughtful, but I don't really ask them because they can be rather complex. For instance one that I created and still need to figure out is:
> 
> If the Drake equation was proven with evidence, and such evidence asserted that Descarte's "cogito ergo sum" was the principle of life. How would you prove to the other inquiring life form that humanity thinks and as a result exists?
> 
> I was thinking about posting it on facebook, but I don't think many people will respond. Just a hunch though...


I think at least what you wrote here to me was very, very NeTi. And funnily enough you didn't necessarily answer my question, you merely informed me. So you're agreeing with me that you do THINK about these things a lot but because you're afraid others will think of it as weird if you don't repress it?

And I want to add that I was never trying to imply that being born in a religious home would indicate that you were forced into believing. You clearly do out of choice. However, I think it would be very hard for an NT to believe without adopting what would be seen as typical SJ values because religion is very SJ-driven. This would mean that at least in my mind any NT who is deeply religious will sound and come off more as an SJ. The only other option to me is probably to either be on the religious fringes or to completely fall out.

Are you doing INTP-chameleoning?


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## Kirsanov (Jul 30, 2012)

LeaT said:


> I think at least what you wrote here to me was very, very NeTi. And funnily enough you didn't necessarily answer my question, you merely informed me. So you're agreeing with me that you do THINK about these things a lot but because you're afraid others will think of it as weird you don't express it?


Sort of, I just don't know what type of people would necessarily be interested in such thoughts. I mean I think I can be more expressive with teachers and adults because I feel they will understand or see some connection. Around my classmates, I was quiet because I didn't know how to always talk to them. Yes I wanted to speak, but I didn't know how to express myself really. 

People misunderstand me I think. I'll repeat it again, but I just was absolutely confounded with what happened during prom weekend I was with a group of friends. I would say something, maybe one person would respond, but then the next person ten minutes later says the same thing and it is a deep conversation starter (I was thinking what the hell). Or when I connected this short story "A Garden of Forking Paths" to Schrodinger's cat and the many world interpretation in astronomy, I told one person and they didn't understand really. So I didn't say much about it in class, unless another person would reference something similar. Then we talk about astronomy and I mention the many worlds interpretation and when someone oddly mentioned the story and how it was sort of similar I said exactly. I told them that is what most of my analysis was based on, did they understand then (I have no fucking clue).

Excuse the language, I really don't swear much vocally. At times though, people would probably be surprised. 

The next few sentences return to what I wrote the post before last. I like dress clothes better than normal clothes, nothing wrong with that. I'm not insisting on others do the same. Well a person asked me why I was wearing khakis and a polo when it was relaxed dress code for seniors (we had a uniform). Yes khakis and a polo are uniform, but you have to have a certain type of polo so I thought it wouldn't matter. I felt like telling him "does what I wear in any way affect you?" "No, so sit there and shut your mouth until you have something useful to say."


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

@LeaT, I'd say an inferior doesn't always have to manifest so negatively. But look back, to the original answers to your questionnaire.



> My biggest fear in life is constant uncertainty. I have learned to step back from the facts and admire the big picture because otherwise worrying knocks you down mentally and physically. Uncertainty of what I will do in the future or what is going on in my life. The largest uncertainty comes with other people, there are a few times when I just wish I knew what other people were thinking. It will worry me and drive at my nerves, until I realize there is no point in working yourself up about it. I like mystery in my life, but when something is very uncertain it can just wrack my brain. The unknown in interesting, the partially known can cause so much consternation though...


How does this read to you?


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

KingNikolai1 said:


> Sort of, I just don't know what type of people would necessarily be interested in such thoughts. I mean I think I can be more expressive with teachers and adults because I feel they will understand or see some connection. Around my classmates, I was quiet because I didn't know how to always talk to them. Yes I wanted to speak, but I didn't know how to express myself really.
> 
> People misunderstand me I think. I'll repeat it again, but I just was absolutely confounded with what happened during prom weekend I was with a group of friends. I would say something, maybe one person would respond, but then the next person ten minutes later says the same thing and it is a deep conversation starter (I was thinking what the hell). Or when I connected this short story "A Garden of Forking Paths" to Schrodinger's cat and the many world interpretation in astronomy, I told one person and they didn't understand really. So I didn't say much about it in class, unless another person would reference something similar. Then we talk about astronomy and I mention the many worlds interpretation and when someone oddly mentioned the story and how it was sort of similar I said exactly. I told them that is what most of my analysis was based on, did they understand then (I have no fucking clue).
> 
> ...


Yes. And I honestly can't see an ISFJ doing this at all unless they are really well-developed which seems strange for your age. I have yet to meet one person on PersC below the age of 25 or so (30 is probably a better guess) who is not struggling with their inferior. 

I want to copy two links in here about the inferior though. You can read both and tell me which one you relate to the most:

http://personalitycafe.com/intp-for...-do-you-identify-description-inferior-fe.html
http://personalitycafe.com/isfj-articles/78380-recognizing-inferior-function-isfj.html


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Flatlander said:


> @_LeaT_, I'd say an inferior doesn't always have to manifest so negatively. But look back, to the original answers to your questionnaire.
> 
> 
> 
> How does this read to you?


That's true, but he does use Ne quite a bit. Which is why I was also suggesting tertiary, not inferior.

I also want to add that it could be read more to support his enneagram. I am actually also very afraid of uncertainty. I need to know things. Well, you know as E5 yourself. For me uncertainty is more about not knowing myself though.

Did we do his instinctual stacking? I think so/sx is likely.


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

LeaT said:


> That's true, but he does use Ne quite a bit. Which is why I was also suggesting tertiary, not inferior.


I'm not sure where you see all the Ne. I see some, but more emphasis on Si.

If we've determined that he's Fe/Ti, that'd make his type either Ti>Si>Ne>Fe, or ESFJ, neither of which I'm really getting here. I don't see the inferior Fe, just primary introversion and the type of people-involvement I'd probably expect from such.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Flatlander said:


> I'm not sure where you see all the Ne. I see some, but more emphasis on Si.
> 
> If we've determined that he's Fe/Ti, that'd make his type either Ti>Si>Ne>Fe, or ESFJ, neither of which I'm really getting here. I don't see the inferior Fe, just primary introversion and the type of people-involvement I'd probably expect from such.


I don't know why I see Ne with him, but it was strange for me reading his posts from the very beginning. My immediate reaction was strong aversion because I initially thought he was an SJ which was enhanced by the fact that he's religious. I'm not a hardcore atheist (in fact I dislike such a position) but I am certainly not fond of religion or religious thought as I find it to be irrational and illogical. 

However, as I kept reading on I felt that the SJ tendencies just slowly disappeared. I don't even see it anymore. I can't explain why really. If I had judged on the first questionnaire and on the first questions, his introduction only, I would've said ISFJ no question. But no I am not so sure anymore.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Flatlander said:


> I'm not sure where you see all the Ne. I see some, but more emphasis on Si.
> 
> If we've determined that he's Fe/Ti, that'd make his type either Ti>Si>Ne>Fe, or ESFJ, neither of which I'm really getting here. I don't see the inferior Fe, just primary introversion and the type of people-involvement I'd probably expect from such.


On a sidenote regarding introversion: you're wearing the ENTP label even though Spades was attributing towards it


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

LeaT said:


> On a sidenote regarding introversion: you're wearing the ENTP label even though Spades was attributing towards it


No good way to represent Ni-Ti. INTP, ENTP, what does it really matter; one is faithful to behavior, one is faithful to general function order.


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## Kirsanov (Jul 30, 2012)

Even though this might sound strange, I feel that maybe I lean more towards Inferior Fe as suspected by LeaT. I'm relatively optimistic for the future, but when I become angry I can become an ultra pessimist as I try to justify everything. "You can't change the past, but you can change the future" as one of my teacher's always said. I did go through a bout of prolonged sadness that might have been borderline depression one summer when I wasn't busy enough. When I was thinking, I couldn't think about the good, it was a constant reminder of all my failures. I'm glad now the most recent girl I had a crush on told me that she was seeing someone else. I felt that my actions may have just seemed a bit more than just a friend for her which produced the best situation to find out. That time I tried not to become particularly connected and let things just go as they normally do. The first time, I sort of gave a super compliment to this girl over a text message. I sort of liked her, and I saw myself maybe dating her, but not that moment. She told me, she just wanted to be friends which I said was fine. I actually cried, I became sensitive and was lachrymose for a good day or two (it was over the weekend). What made matters worse was the fact that we never really remained friends, just acquaintances. I was over it until the next year (as a junior) I tried to maybe start up the friendship again (nothing more). She told me to find people I had shared interests with and I wasn't one of those people. I kind of had friends throughout high school, but only school friends, no close friends really. I talked with my classmates but I never connected with any of them except on guy, but he's a different story. Again I always connected more with adults conversation wise. When I get mad I tend to get emotional, maybe a bit hypersensitive too. I just wanted to get my work done, some kid tried to take away my book so I quickly grabbed it back and called him an asshole. I don't know of this helps at all, it sounds more like inferior Fe. America is a great place, the culture not so much...

Sorry for the block of text, I had no clue where to make a new paragraph.

I also wanted to know, not that is matters, but some of these things I have only told to my sisters. And some instances not as detailed either, I think the mystery and partial anonymity of the internet has allowed me to reveal some very personal situations.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

KingNikolai1 said:


> Even though this might sound strange, I feel that maybe I lean more towards Inferior Fe as suspected by LeaT. I'm relatively optimistic for the future, but when I become angry I can become an ultra pessimist as I try to justify everything. "You can't change the past, but you can change the future" as one of my teacher's always said. I did go through a bout of prolonged sadness that might have been borderline depression one summer when I wasn't busy enough. When I was thinking, I couldn't think about the good, it was a constant reminder of all my failures. I'm glad now the most recent girl I had a crush on told me that she was seeing someone else. I felt that my actions may have just seemed a bit more than just a friend for her which produced the best situation to find out. That time I tried not to become particularly connected and let things just go as they normally do. The first time, I sort of gave a super compliment to this girl over a text message. I sort of liked her, and I saw myself maybe dating her, but not that moment. She told me, she just wanted to be friends which I said was fine. I actually cried, I became sensitive and was lachrymose for a good day or two (it was over the weekend). What made matters worse was the fact that we never really remained friends, just acquaintances. I was over it until the next year (as a junior) I tried to maybe start up the friendship again (nothing more). She told me to find people I had shared interests with and I wasn't one of those people. I kind of had friends throughout high school, but only school friends, no close friends really. I talked with my classmates but I never connected with any of them except on guy, but he's a different story. Again I always connected more with adults conversation wise. When I get mad I tend to get emotional, maybe a bit hypersensitive too. I just wanted to get my work done, some kid tried to take away my book so I quickly grabbed it back and called him an asshole. I don't know of this helps at all, it sounds more like inferior Fe. America is a great place, the culture not so much...
> 
> Sorry for the block of text, I had no clue where to make a new paragraph.


I don't know about you @_Flatlander_, but I see Ne all over the place in sentences like these. He's constantly informing, looking at connections, seeing if they fit or not into a larger structure. 

And @_KingNikolai1_, I do relate to what you write very much. You essentially summed up my poor and very awkward adolescence that I am very happy is past me now. You could be an Si dom or you could be be an INTP with well developed tertiary Si, perhaps out of necessity in order to adapt to your environment. What you are is still up to you to decide because you always know yourself the best. 

I do however see much more NeTi than SiFe in your posts. Whether this is because of your enneagram type or not I don't know, but I find it hard to believe that I would identify so strongly with you once I got beyond the initial SJ vibe if you were an ISFJ. I have incredible problems to understand how they live life at all. I don't feel like that with you and I don't think it could just be enneagram similarity. An ISFJ with enneagram 5 would still in my mind somehow come off as an ISFJ. Perhaps a much more introverted one than what is normal, but ISFJ with strong Ti most likely nevertheless. And I think perhaps the truths they're looking for is more related to people than impersonal ones. 

And again @_Flatlander_, I was of course joking but you already knew this but I felt compelled to point it out nevertheless  Don't ask me why @_gingertonic_ thinks you're an ENTP over an introverted type. I personally don't see it but at least your avatar fits your type better :tongue:


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

Gotcha.

You can read up more on inferior Fe from here: http://personalitycafe.com/istp-articles/76785-recognizing-inferior-function-istp.html


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

LeaT said:


> And again @_Flatlander_, I was of course joking but you already knew this but I felt compelled to point it out nevertheless  Don't ask me why @_gingertonic_ thinks you're an ENTP over an introverted type. I personally don't see it but at least your avatar fits your type better :tongue:


Probably because of the inferior Sensing. Connecting with people is not just Feeling (Fe), it's also in the scope of Sensing, especially Si, and I also have that pattern of getting extremely bored with environment and repeated stimuli. 

I also have a general bent toward reliance on ideas, which get post-analyzed as I process them. My Thinking started catching up as I went through school. I clearly don't have Te, so the next logical pick is Ti, making Ne>Ti the natural conclusion. Reading through it again, the way I describe that probably also seems Ne-ish.


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## username (Apr 6, 2010)

KingNikolai1 said:


> Right now I'm going straight from my brain to the page. What comes to mind when answering the questions is what I put. It depends on my environment, I like to gauge it before going all out or not saying anything.
> 
> @_Flatlander_ and @_Sela_
> When I take the cognitive functions test Se and Fe come in last place. All the other functions are closer to each other, with Fi and Si coming in first depending on the situation. Ti seems to fluctuate, and Ne likes to come in 2nd, 3rd, 4th, or 5th depending on the situation. It varies on the day I take the tests. So the functions are all over the place with Fe and Se always coming in last and having relatively strong Fi and Si. I held off on telling you the results because they conflict so much with what is being said here. :frustrating:


Okay, you are not Si dominant, so let's just forget that you sometimes test that way. I'd say Si is definitely in tertiary position. I'm really only uncertain whether you use Ti/Fe or Fi/Te, but I'm leaning more toward Ti/Fe (INTP).


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## username (Apr 6, 2010)

@_KingNikolai1_

Do you evaluate ideas/things based on an internal sense of logic? Or do you evaluate things based on an internal set of values?


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## Kirsanov (Jul 30, 2012)

username said:


> @_KingNikolai1_
> 
> Do you evaluate ideas/things based on an internal sense of logic? Or do you evaluate things based on an internal set of values?


Both. If it is morality, spirituality, theology, feelings based then values more so than logic. Philosophy, literature, and work oriented material will be evaluated logically. They go hand in hand, I can't really split them since they have a symbiotic relationship within me in my opinion. The two balance each other. Even the aforementioned split is sort of artificial, that is just the closest thing I could relate in words though.


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## username (Apr 6, 2010)

KingNikolai1 said:


> Both. If it is morality, spirituality, theology, feelings based then values more so than logic. Philosophy, literature, and work oriented material will be evaluated logically. They go hand in hand, I can't really split them since they have a symbiotic relationship within me in my opinion. The two balance each other. Even the aforementioned split is sort of artificial, that is just the closest thing I could relate in words though.


I tend to see things the same way, and I think that's the auxiliary Ne. I do know that at the core, I seek logical consistency, even though I can appreciate and do have some feeling values.

Another question: Does the idea of belonging to a group appeal to you? In general, INTP's resist attaching anything to their identity.


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## tangosthenes (Oct 29, 2011)

KingNikolai1 said:


> Both. If it is morality, spirituality, theology, feelings based then values more so than logic. Philosophy, literature, and work oriented material will be evaluated logically. They go hand in hand, I can't really split them since they have a symbiotic relationship within me in my opinion. The two balance each other. Even the aforementioned split is sort of artificial, that is just the closest thing I could relate in words though.


What would upset you more: someone not respecting your value system or your competency?


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## Kirsanov (Jul 30, 2012)

username said:


> Another question: Does the idea of belonging to a group appeal to you? In general, INTP's resist attaching anything to their identity.


Depends on the group, in general I won't be a apart of a group just to fit in. Although this may sound ironic since I do hold fast to a religion. Religion for me is ingrained and affects my whole life, it isn't merely a group. In school I tried out various groups, and I stuck with the ones I liked. In general I don't believe people should be segregated in little cubby holes like stereotypes. It is just counterproductive and hurts in the end. That is why I didn't necessarily have a specific stereotype in high school, I did my own thing and people were fine with that. 

While in school I got along great with the teachers because I could have thought provoking conversations with them. I read and played a bunch of computer games. Over the years I have started to read more, and maybe watch a few more tv shows/movies, compared to my younger years when it was always computer games. I went out and did stuff because I was told too. That is why I don't obsessively do something because I was taught at a young age to moderate myself. 

A wise priest, who is a good friend of mine, once told me that attaching a name to yourself does no good. If you don't label yourself as a nerd or gamer, than no one else should, or will, do the same concerning you. So I have to like the crowd I'm around and the activity of the group to join it. 



tangosthenes said:


> What would upset you more: someone not respecting your value system or your competency?


I don't care if someone doesn't agree with me in values, as long as they don't disrespect them for no reason. Competency depends on the situation, if I'm not competent then I will say so. It would make me angry if someone thought I was incompetent in a subject that I had thoroughly researched. I believe disagreement is healthy, disrespect not so much. I don't agree with gay rights or gay marriage, will I disrespect them and call them horrible people no. Hate the sin, love the sinner. So I suppose I do put much emphasis on values in my own internal world, how that shows externally can be hard to articulate.


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## username (Apr 6, 2010)

KingNikolai1 said:


> Depends on the group, in general I won't be a apart of a group just to fit in. *Although this may sound ironic since I do hold fast to a religion.* Religion for me is ingrained and affects my whole life, it isn't merely a group. In school I tried out various groups, and I stuck with the ones I liked. In general I don't believe people should be segregated in little cubby holes like stereotypes. It is just counterproductive and hurts in the end. That is why I didn't necessarily have a specific stereotype in high school, I did my own thing and people were fine with that.
> 
> While in school I got along great with the teachers because I could have thought provoking conversations with them. I read and played a bunch of computer games. Over the years I have started to read more, and maybe watch a few more tv shows/movies, compared to my younger years when it was always computer games. I went out and did stuff because I was told too. That is why I don't obsessively do something because I was taught at a young age to moderate myself.
> 
> ...


Religious belief is entirely different from identifying with a group, unless someone converts to a religion to become part of a group, but that defeats the purpose of religion, in my opinion. Religious affiliation should be a personal choice. You sound very logical to me. I am leaning more toward Ti dominance for you.


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## username (Apr 6, 2010)

@KingNikolai1

Do you like to debate? Do you almost feel compelled to do it? Do you have a tendency to ask your teachers/professors a lot of questions? (I'm not certain whether you've started college yet.)


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## Kirsanov (Jul 30, 2012)

username said:


> @_KingNikolai1_
> 
> Do you like to debate? Do you almost feel compelled to do it? Do you have a tendency to ask your teachers/professors a lot of questions? (I'm not certain whether you've started college yet.)


I do enjoy debating and teaching/giving speeches. When I ask questions I do it outside of class because I feel I can connect and get a better answer without derailing or taking up too much time in class. I start college in about two weeks. Am I compelled to debate, I don't really think so. I would only be compelled if someone was blatantly disrespecting my beliefs on purpose. That has only happened once. In general I like to engage people with thoughtful questions, sort of like a symposium. I also enjoy the Socratic method because I think discourse can, for different subjects, help critical thinking skills as well as involve everyone. We would have to read Norton short stories/poems for AP English. Then we would take a few days after we did all the research and wrote analyses on each story to discuss them in class. We'd create one big circle, and it was good to hear other's opinions on the stories and the different perspectives. For the most part I wouldn't say everything on my mind, for fear of having to explain everything I have and taking too much time. I would interject my ideas for every story, not the totality though. Our teacher would read the analyses and write a few comments on each one. Normally they are questions to make you think deeper on a certain point you made or a relevant observation. Around second semester I started to receive "interesting point" comments on ideas that I had on my stories, but I don't know how often he would write the same thing on other people's analyses. This could be the "depth" that he was telling me about earlier. I didn't really care whether my classmates did this, since some stories were hard to pick out the focus, but they would read the stories and do the research before writing their analyses. So inevitably there would always be thoughts that were exactly the same as the scholar's that we wrote stuff down for in the research section. I on the other hand most likely spent too much time on each story by reading it, looking up a little information on the author, thinking, and finally writing the analysis. Research was always my last step since he wanted our analysis to be just that _ours_. 

Overall I like discussing and teaching more than mere debating. Too many times debates would devolve into ad hominem attacks.


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## username (Apr 6, 2010)

kingnikolai1 said:


> i do enjoy debating and teaching/giving speeches. When i ask questions i do it outside of class because i feel i can connect and get a better answer without derailing or taking up too much time in class. I start college in about two weeks. Am i compelled to debate, i don't really think so. I would only be compelled if someone was blatantly disrespecting my beliefs on purpose. That has only happened once. In general i like to engage people with thoughtful questions, sort of like a symposium. I also enjoy the socratic method because i think discourse can, for different subjects, help critical thinking skills as well as involve everyone. We would have to read norton short stories/poems for ap english. Then we would take a few days after we did all the research and wrote analyses on each story to discuss them in class. We'd create one big circle, and it was good to hear other's opinions on the stories and the different perspectives. For the most part i wouldn't say everything on my mind, for fear of having to explain everything i have and taking too much time. I would interject my ideas for every story, not the totality though. Our teacher would read the analyses and write a few comments on each one. Normally they are questions to make you think deeper on a certain point you made or a relevant observation. Around second semester i started to receive "interesting point" comments on ideas that i had on my stories, but i don't know how often he would write the same thing on other people's analyses. This could be the "depth" that he was telling me about earlier. I didn't really care whether my classmates did this, since some stories were hard to pick out the focus, but they would read the stories and do the research before writing their analyses. So inevitably there would always be thoughts that were exactly the same as the scholar's that we wrote stuff down for in the research section. I on the other hand most likely spent too much time on each story by reading it, looking up a little information on the author, thinking, and finally writing the analysis. Research was always my last step since he wanted our analysis to be just that _ours_.
> 
> Overall i like discussing and teaching more than mere debating. Too many times debates would devolve into ad hominem attacks.


intp.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Flatlander said:


> I didn't mean to trigger stuff. -_-
> 
> Overall, it sounds enough like Feeling inferior to me. Trauma in youth could definitely change cognitive development, but I doubt there's any use in trying to figure it out if you don't have any data.


Sorry, but I'm not really in a particularly healthy mindset currently -.-


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

KingNikolai1 said:


> I do enjoy debating and teaching/giving speeches. When I ask questions I do it outside of class because I feel I can connect and get a better answer without derailing or taking up too much time in class. I start college in about two weeks. Am I compelled to debate, I don't really think so. I would only be compelled if someone was blatantly disrespecting my beliefs on purpose. That has only happened once. In general I like to engage people with thoughtful questions, sort of like a symposium. I also enjoy the Socratic method because I think discourse can, for different subjects, help critical thinking skills as well as involve everyone. We would have to read Norton short stories/poems for AP English. Then we would take a few days after we did all the research and wrote analyses on each story to discuss them in class. We'd create one big circle, and it was good to hear other's opinions on the stories and the different perspectives. For the most part I wouldn't say everything on my mind, for fear of having to explain everything I have and taking too much time. I would interject my ideas for every story, not the totality though. Our teacher would read the analyses and write a few comments on each one. Normally they are questions to make you think deeper on a certain point you made or a relevant observation. Around second semester I started to receive "interesting point" comments on ideas that I had on my stories, but I don't know how often he would write the same thing on other people's analyses. This could be the "depth" that he was telling me about earlier. I didn't really care whether my classmates did this, since some stories were hard to pick out the focus, but they would read the stories and do the research before writing their analyses. So inevitably there would always be thoughts that were exactly the same as the scholar's that we wrote stuff down for in the research section. I on the other hand most likely spent too much time on each story by reading it, looking up a little information on the author, thinking, and finally writing the analysis. Research was always my last step since he wanted our analysis to be just that _ours_.
> 
> Overall I like discussing and teaching more than mere debating. Too many times debates would devolve into ad hominem attacks.


Heh. I relate to to getting "interesting perspective" comment. It's been the constant strength I've had during my studies. Teachers always comment on and seem to even admire my ability for independent and critical thought. I honestly don't see an Si dom being able to do that unless their inferior would for some reason be extremely well-developed, but even then, it might not happen until they are very old.


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## Kirsanov (Jul 30, 2012)

Well, it seems the general consensus is INTP. Thank you all for participating in this quest to find my type.


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