# How do you determine what is from enneagram stacking and what is from enneagram type?



## The Exception (Oct 26, 2010)

I am a 5w6 who for a long time identified with sp/so/sx. Recently, I've realized that so/sx/sp might really be the best fit? So why such a drastic change? 

1. Well for starters, I did a video chat with an expert on enneagram. In demeanor, I came out quite clearly as so/sx/sp. In particular, SO first. Even though I'm a 5, which is supposedly a more socially distant type in general, I came across as more pleasant and smiley, more lighthearted, more sunny, more inclusive, more friendly, etc. SO first. In addition, I also appeared to be a bit less grounded and down-to-earth, more up in the air. Therefore, SP last. 

2. Reading the stacking descriptions, in particular, the ones pertaining to type 5. I came to realize that if I am truthful about myself, so/sx/sp does seem the closest. 

3. The stuff about syn-flow vs. contra flow stackings. I'm not sure how much I buy into this theory but it's quite interesting. Syn-flow stackings include sp/so --> so/sx --> sx/sp. These stackings are more compelled towards people, acting upon and with others as a born insider. i.e. - deeply human. 
In contrast, contra-flow stackings are so/sp --> sp/sx --> sx/so
These stackings are compelled against people. Seething belligerent outsiders; 'antisocial', provoking, reverse-flow change catalysts. In some profound sesne, rejecting the human condition, their own and/or that of others.

I relate more to syn-flow and find myself more compatible with people of those stackings in general. 


Yet, I still doubt that I got my stacking right for various reasons. 

1. Stacking tests. I know tests are not always very reliable but when you consistently score similar results on tests, that might tell you something. I usually get SP/SO/SX on them. Occasionally SO/SP/SX, or SP/SX/SO. SX is consistently last. 

2. Other peoples' feedback. Most seem to type me as sp/so and so/sp. They don't see much SX at all. 

*3. I think why I have so much trouble with stacking is that it is hard to tell what is truly from stacking and what is just from enneagram type. *
For example, I previously thought I was SP first because when it comes down to it I'm very independent and self-sufficient. I don't rely much on others if I can help it. I like doing things on my own. Physically I am cautious and not much of a risk taker. I am really good at saving up money and always make sure I have enough. I like to be physically comfortable and free from pain. But then, I'm a type 5, which is normally associated with independence and self-sufficiency anyway. 6 wing can explain my need for physical security. Also, I tend to be rather ascetic with simple physical needs so it's easy to save money and I can be somewhat hoarding of it. (again, rather consistent with type 5). Wanting to be physically comfortable- maybe influence from my 9 fix? 

On the other hand there are also arguments against SP first. I'm not really that grounded overall. More airy, less practical. Often out of touch with my body until I experience some discomfort. I often resent having to pay attention to my body and health. I often wish I was just a spirit floating in the air but still with thoughts and feelings. I can sometimes 'push' things body wise. Not get enough rest, eat junk food, etc. Yet in other ways I am quite cautious. Don't smoke or drink alcohol. Afraid of trying things where the physical effects are unknown. But then, how much of this is SP last and how much of this is type 5? Type 5's tend to be much more in their heads and less so in their bodies compared to other instincts. 


Then there's SX instinct. I always thought it was last because I've always preferred things more even-keeled, calmer, less intense. Too much intensity scares me. Although, I see the need for some level of it. No intensity at all would be rather dull. I never felt like I needed an intimate relationship or signficant other to feel complete. My friendships and relationships tend to have more breadth than depth. I know alot of different people but only a few I can truly call close friends. I never quite needed the level of closeness that other people seem to need. Although if I happen to experience intimacy and closeness, great. But I don't seem to 'require' it to the degree many others do. Again though, this might be explained by being a type 5.


Regarding the SO instinct. Yes, I can easily see how I could be SO first. My neuroses seem to most revolve around this area. How do people perceive me? How do I stand socially in comparison with others? Do they like me or not? Yes, I am quite insecure and vulnerable in this area. Comparing myself to most 5's, I am far more concerned about these types of things. I am also more group oriented. I actually like being in social groups- provided that we share common interests or values. I want to contribute something of value to society and I care alot about social issues and where the world is headed. 


I'm still not quite sure about SO/SX/SP being my stacking. I feel like SP is stronger than SX, but some of that might be related to 5w6 stuff. On the other hand, SO/SP/SX seems too 'stiff and formal' and too much of a 'social climber.' for me to relate to. 


Thoughts? How do you tell what truly comes from the stacking and what just comes from the enneagram type?


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## Stellafera (Jan 19, 2015)

The Exception said:


> Then there's SX instinct. I always thought it was last because I've always preferred things more even-keeled, calmer, less intense. Too much intensity scares me. Although, I see the need for some level of it. No intensity at all would be rather dull. I never felt like I needed an intimate relationship or signficant other to feel complete. My friendships and relationships tend to have more breadth than depth. I know alot of different people but only a few I can truly call close friends. I never quite needed the level of closeness that other people seem to need. Although if I happen to experience intimacy and closeness, great. But I don't seem to 'require' it to the degree many others do. Again though, this might be explained by being a type 5.


Count me in the group of people who sees you as more So/Sp than So/Sx. I'm So/Sp myself and I don't tend to relate to Sp descriptions that focus on bodily comfort. To me, the stacking is more related to the idea I accomplishing the tasks I need to to take care of myself. In the more airy intellectual sense, that can include gathering the facts necessary to handle X situation. My 6ishness comes out here in my focus on preparation and having things be good enough for [insert future event]. 

I quoted the segment that you have because I see it all the time from people who self-identify as Sx-last, including me. The uncomfortableness with intensity (check), the "so many acquaintances and few close friends" problem (check), etc. Sx-last doesn't have to be super-formal -- in real life I'm definitely not -- but I think our even keel and vague lack of passion compared to Sx-types can come across as such in descriptions. I'm the sort of person that inspires comments like "man, I want to see Stellafera when she's mad".

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As for how to distinguish type and stacking... I'm not sure if there's a clean and reliable way of it. Sometimes I try to get around the mixed lines by trying to imagine what somebody with a different stacking of my type would be like. Like, how does 6ishness express itself in a Sx/Sp type? What would be the same? What would be different? That sort of thing.


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## The Exception (Oct 26, 2010)

Stellafera said:


> Count me in the group of people who sees you as more So/Sp than So/Sx. I'm So/Sp myself and I don't tend to relate to Sp descriptions that focus on bodily comfort. To me, the stacking is more related to the idea I accomplishing the tasks I need to to take care of myself. In the more airy intellectual sense, that can include gathering the facts necessary to handle X situation. My 6ishness comes out here in my focus on preparation and having things be good enough for [insert future event].
> 
> I quoted the segment that you have because I see it all the time from people who self-identify as Sx-last, including me. The uncomfortableness with intensity (check), the "so many acquaintances and few close friends" problem (check), etc. Sx-last doesn't have to be super-formal -- in real life I'm definitely not -- but I think our even keel and vague lack of passion compared to Sx-types can come across as such in descriptions. I'm the sort of person that inspires comments like "man, I want to see Stellafera when she's mad".
> 
> ...



I care alot about bodliy comfort but paradoxically, I don't put alot of effort into maintaining it either. Comfort for me is more about avoiding pain than trying to put an effort into finding the most comfortable chair. Most of the time, I'm comfortable in the chair I'm sitting in anyway. I only take notice when I start to feel some sensation of discomfort. But once I'm in a state of physical discomfort, I can get cranky and it's hard to tune it out, until I've reached the state of comfort again. 

I am also very future oriented in focus and I always want to make sure I have enough resources to handle any potential future catastrophe that could occur. Enough money saved up for emergencies for example. I also think alot about growing old and mortality. Something that just fills me up with dread. I want to prolong my lifespan as long as possible. 

Overall though, I think I have more neuroses on SO than on SP. Therefore SO first and SP second perhaps. I pay enough attention to SP in order to prevent further trouble but I don't like making a spectacle out of it either. 

It's true that I come across as even-keeled, maybe a bit 'passionless' to others. But those who call me passionless, I think, don't really know me. I have alot of inner intensity and passions about many things. I just express them in a rather controlled manner and am cautious so that my passions won't lead me into physical trouble (SP concerns) or cause ridicule or disapproval by others (SO concerns).


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## enneathusiast (Dec 15, 2012)

@The Exception

Sounds to me like SX is last for you which leaves SO/SP or SP/SO.
I'd just ask the question, *ideally *would you prefer to participate in a group (SO/SP) or do your own thing (SP/SO)?


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## The Exception (Oct 26, 2010)

For work related things, I much prefer to do my own thing. I can better ensure I have it done the way I want with minimal interruptions or distractions. 

For leisure, it can go both ways. Much of what I do is solitary- reading, listening to music, watching movies, etc. There are some group things I enjoy- gaming, internet chat groups, groups based on shared interests (like my local socionics group). 

Overall I lean most towards wanting to do things on my own. But again I am wondering how much of that is just type 5. Type 5 is one of the most independent and solitary types regardless of instinct. Compared to other type 5's, I do come across as more social and group oriented even if I am still mostly solitary and independent. Hence the confusion.


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## enneathusiast (Dec 15, 2012)

The Exception said:


> Compared to other type 5's, I do come across as more social and group oriented even if I am still mostly solitary and independent. Hence the confusion.


IME, the 1st instinct is what you move toward. It's how your type shapes it's output. 

For example, type 5 analyzing, researching, etc. for what purpose. For your own benefit (SP) or for the group's benefit (SO). For me, it describes where you're ultimately hoping to direct your type's effort. I say hoping because it may not always fulfill the needs of that instinctual domain which may leave you frustrated about it. Hence the difficulty with satisfying the 1st instinct.


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## Stellafera (Jan 19, 2015)

enneathusiast said:


> @The Exception
> 
> Sounds to me like SX is last for you which leaves SO/SP or SP/SO.
> I'd just ask the question, *ideally *would you prefer to participate in a group (SO/SP) or do your own thing (SP/SO)?



I usually volunteer to do projects on my own because I can often do the work better that way...


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## periwinklepromise (Jan 26, 2015)

Stellafera said:


> I usually volunteer to do projects on my own because I can often do the work better that way...


I think it's a little funny that both you and TE assume it's about work/projects. Not sure what that _means_, but I noticed it... I, too, prefer to do "projects" alone, because I generally don't trust other people to put in the effort I'm going to require. But I'm definitely nowhere close to SP first. 

I agree that @The Exception is definitely SX last, and probably SO/SP/SX. How you discuss the instincts is telling, to me. 

As for the official question of the thread, I don't have a damn clue. I haven't been able to figure that out much. My current instinctual typing is based on fixation/neurosis as independent from Enneatype as possible, not subtype or more middle-ground interpretations. I'm still not totally sure. I do wonder how much it is "the type sounds predisposed to this instinct" compared to "people subconsciously conflate the two and all the descriptions are about a certain subtype of the Enneatype, not an Enneatype independent of instinct" - I sometimes sense "flavors" of the instincts in certain descriptions (eg an author may describe type 8 in sp and sx ways, but totally ignore social; some descriptions of type 4 lean so or sx, not sp; etc). 

I hope this thread gets some more action, because I'd love to hear how other people dealt with this issue


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## Stellafera (Jan 19, 2015)

periwinklepromise said:


> I think it's a little funny that both you and TE assume it's about work/projects. Not sure what that _means_, but I noticed it... I, too, prefer to do "projects" alone, because I generally don't trust other people to put in the effort I'm going to require. But I'm definitely nowhere close to SP first.


I didn't even think about another way to approach the question as phrased, weird. I spend _more_ of my free time alone but I like talking to people a lot and I enjoy time spent with others. It's just draining to spend a long time "on" for social situations, like I imagine it is with most anybody. 



> As for the official question of the thread, I don't have a damn clue. I haven't been able to figure that out much. My current instinctual typing is based on fixation/neurosis as independent from Enneatype as possible, not subtype or more middle-ground interpretations. I'm still not totally sure. I do wonder how much it is "the type sounds predisposed to this instinct" compared to "people subconsciously conflate the two and all the descriptions are about a certain subtype of the Enneatype, not an Enneatype independent of instinct" - I sometimes sense "flavors" of the instincts in certain descriptions (eg an author may describe type 8 in sp and sx ways, but totally ignore social; some descriptions of type 4 lean so or sx, not sp; etc).
> 
> I hope this thread gets some more action, because I'd love to hear how other people dealt with this issue


I'm also interested here. Perhaps some of the stuff in 6 descriptions that I dismiss as inaccurate is just meant for another subtype. Like, I've never understood the whole , *"FIGHT OR FLIGHT", "SURVIVALIST TO THE MAX", "LIFE IS A WEB OF INTENSE POWER STRUGGLES"* sorts of descriptions, they sounded like total overwrought crap to me. _What the heck kind of life do you live where everything's so dramatic and every social encounter is fueled with all this tension?_ And now I'm starting to wonder if those are just tailored to a Sx/Sp Type 6.

While all 6s look to outside sources for confirmation and security, I wonder if So-last type 6s consider the societal hivemind a source the same way I'm inclined to. Like, if I watch a movie and enjoy it, I'll look up reviews about it in order to refine my thought process and see if other people felt the same way. My instinct is to call that group-confirming (not a typo) behavior 6ish, but is it really? Or is it _social_ 6ish?

In that case, no wonder why other Type 6 descriptions focus so much on small inner circles and "the special gift of being trusted by a 6 :shocked::shocked:" like we're wounded rescue dogs or something... they're not for me.


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## compulsiverambler (Jan 7, 2010)

The Exception said:


> Even though I'm a 5, which is supposedly a more socially distant type in general, I came across as more pleasant and smiley, more lighthearted, more sunny, more inclusive, more friendly, etc. SO first. In addition, I also appeared to be a bit less grounded and down-to-earth, more up in the air. Therefore, SP last.


I'm so/sp and come across exactly the same, but I attribute it to being a 9, not my instinctual variants. I used to think I was a 5, which is very common for 9s as we often love learning obscure subjects as a means of escapism. Have you ever considered you might be a 9? 

I decided on so/sp for myself for these reasons:
- Strong and early interests in current affairs and the Humanities, including moral philosophy
- Obsessive Compulsive Disorder that manifests in the fairly unusual form of hyper-responsibility and hyper-empathy for people I've never met, from any time and culture without bias, rather than for people I know personally which is the much more common form of hyper-responsibility in OCD.
- Except for close personal friend groups, I tend to think about my role, image, contribution and value to whatever group I'm part of, from work to Internet forums, more than whether I'm closely bonded with anyone or how much specific people like me or vice versa. 
- Having been interested in healthy living from a very young age, before I even knew the consequences of things that were 'good for you' or 'bad for you'.
- Not craving a romantic or sexual relationship and being very uncomfortable with hand-holding, eye-gazing and similar romantic gestures with people I believe I have crushes on, despite being fine with physical affection with friends. I do seem to experience sexual attraction sometimes, mostly when drunk, so I'm not exactly asexual as I used to think, and I do "swoon" over people I identify as crushes, so I'm not aromantic either. I guess I'm either hypo-sexual and hypo-romantic, or have some kind of severe psychological barrier to intimacy which I have never felt compelled to break because I don't feel I'm missing anything that would make life better overall. Either possibility would surely indicate a very weak sx instinct.



The Exception said:


> 6 wing can explain my need for physical security.


Wouldn't a 6 still need the sp instinct first or second to explain a need for physical security? My understanding is 6s all look for things outside of themselves to rely on to secure their needs, not that they all want to secure the same kinds of needs.


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## enneathusiast (Dec 15, 2012)

Stellafera said:


> Perhaps some of the stuff in 6 descriptions that I dismiss as inaccurate is just meant for another subtype. Like, I've never understood the whole , *"FIGHT OR FLIGHT", "SURVIVALIST TO THE MAX", "LIFE IS A WEB OF INTENSE POWER STRUGGLES"* sorts of descriptions, they sounded like total overwrought crap to me. _What the heck kind of life do you live where everything's so dramatic and every social encounter is fueled with all this tension?_ And now I'm starting to wonder if those are just tailored to a Sx/Sp Type 6.


I make that distinction more through the wings (i.e., 6w7 is very different from 6w5 but not simply because 7 and 5 are different).



Stellafera said:


> While all 6s look to outside sources for confirmation and security, I wonder if So-last type 6s consider the societal hivemind a source the same way I'm inclined to. Like, if I watch a movie and enjoy it, I'll look up reviews about it in order to refine my thought process and see if other people felt the same way. My instinct is to call that group-confirming (not a typo) behavior 6ish, but is it really? Or is it _social_ 6ish?


That's describing so-first as I described the first instinct in my previous post when I said:



> IME, the 1st instinct is what you move toward. It's how your type shapes it's output.


It's as if your reality is getting shaped by the 1st instinct by anticipating how it would fit. Sometimes it's actual feedback that does the shaping. Sometimes it's imagined or anticipated feedback that does the shaping.


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