# 7w8 versus 8w7



## n2freedom

Can anyone shed some light on distinct differences between 7w8 versus 8w7?


----------



## Mooncutter

*This should help*



n2freedom said:


> Can anyone shed some light on distinct differences between 7w8 versus 8w7?


*I sure will. Both are extremely* active and outgoing, as both enneagram layers are active.

*7w8 are extremely positive *and react with anger only when there is no other way, to them. Their humour is also outrageous, all of them like south park. In my experience they are also very smart, for some reason. 7w8 have a positive twist on everything, even depressing things like funerals, family deaths, and severe car accidents.

*When you mention something like this. *They don't dwell in the negatives; it's not that they don't care. They just intuitively look for every opportunity to create something fun out of it. For them that is the greatest gift to give at that partocular moment.
*
8w7 do not turn everything* you say into something positive. They are also the best at verbally sparring, tooling people, and enjoy it a lot. They are the elementary school bullies. And as primary trait they take confrontation head on; the bull by its horn. 8w7 have basically no fear of confrontation whatsoever, which is unusual. 

*Their feelings are *also VERY strong and very active. The easiest way to determine an 8 is to look in his/her eyes. All except very healthy ones has a rawness to them. Like a deep primal instinct; animal ferocity. 8's also react with anger under emotional pressure, always. Never sadness, melancholy or anything like it. Just pure anger, strong also. Which might be the easiest way to set them apart. If the 8 is not very laid back, hence 8w9. It is an 8w7.

8's also rate everything as all or nothing. Ask an 8 to rate an experience, he will give 1 or 10. Never like a mediocre 5 =)
Like 4's they enjoy the *intensity* of emotions.

Edit: It also seems they never cry. (but thats true for a lot of people. It's an indicator)

Edit 2: Eminem is a clear 8w7. He's very confrontational, he's been angry all his life AND his mindset is "everyone is trying to fuck me" - textbook of an unhealthy 8w7.

Cheers


----------



## n2freedom

Mooncutter said:


> *I sure will. Both are extremely* active and outgoing, as both enneagram layers are active.
> 
> *7w8 are extremely positive *and react with anger only when there is no other way, to them. Their humour is also outrageous, all of them like south park. In my experience they are also very smart, for some reason. 7w8 have a positive twist on everything, even depressing things like funerals, family deaths, and severe car accidents.
> 
> *When you mention something like this. *They don't dwell in the negatives; it's not that they don't care. They just intuitively look for every opportunity to create something fun out of it. For them that is the greatest gift to give at that partocular moment.
> *
> 8w7 do not turn everything* you say into something positive. They are also the best at verbally sparring, tooling people, and enjoy it a lot. They are the elementary school bullies. And as primary trait they take confrontation head on; the bull by its horn. 8w7 have basically no fear of confrontation whatsoever, which is unusual.
> 
> *Their feelings are *also VERY strong and very active. The easiest way to determine an 8 is to look in his/her eyes. All except very healthy ones has a rawness to them. Like a deep primal instinct; animal ferocity. 8's also react with anger under emotional pressure, always. Never sadness, melancholy or anything like it. Just pure anger, strong also. Which might be the easiest way to set them apart. If the 8 is not very laid back, hence 8w9. It is an 8w7.
> 
> 8's also rate everything as all or nothing. Ask an 8 to rate an experience, he will give 1 or 10. Never like a mediocre 5 =)
> Like 4's they enjoy the *intensity* of emotions.
> 
> Edit: It also seems they never cry. (but thats true for a lot of people. It's an indicator)
> 
> Cheers


I can relate to all that you have written. By any chance do you also have detailed info on 3w2 vs 3w4?


----------



## Mooncutter

n2freedom said:


> I can relate to all that you have written. By any chance do you also have detailed info on 3w2 vs 3w4?


*
This post I wrote has some useul* info on 3's (long post at bottom, just search my name)

http://personalitycafe.com/enneagra...rences-similarities-3s-1s-especially-nfj.html

*As for the difference. I*f you know someone is a 3, but not subtype.

3w2 = shallow 3's
3w4 = deep 3's

*A three that doesn't have a* strong creative craving is a 3w2. Craving present, then 3w4. Also look at the "smooth" quality of 3w2's, or also talked about as their charm. 3w2s are not self-conscious, which 3w4 are. Especially when emotionally unhealthy, then they can be like 4's that way.


----------



## n2freedom

@Mooncutter. Thanks!


----------



## Mooncutter

n2freedom said:


> @Mooncutter. Thanks!



No problem mate, anytime =)


----------



## Eerie

I disagree with some of what is being said here.

7w8's aren't always happy positive people. *shrugs*


----------



## Mooncutter

Eerie said:


> I disagree with some of what is being said here.
> 
> 7w8's aren't always happy positive people. *shrugs*


*=)

In my experience even* average-to-low 7's are positive people. Only when they get quite unhealthy do they stop being overly positive. But at this point they qualify for a minor or even clinical depression. Positivity is, so to speak, "the last thing to go".


----------



## timeless

It's a common misconception that Sevens have to be happy all of the time, or even most of the time, or bubbly. They are part of the "positive outlook" triad, but that's because they use a positive outlook as a coping mechanism. Looking at the "silver lining" is their way to avoid trouble. So you can compare 7 and 8 this way - a 7 is more likely to try to convince themselves that they aren't bothered, or that everything is otherwise okay, while an Eight would want to confront it head on. This definitely doesn't mean that Sevens have to be happy people, though.


----------



## Mooncutter

timeless said:


> It's a common misconception that Sevens have to be happy all of the time, or even most of the time, or bubbly. They are part of the "positive outlook" triad, but that's because they use a positive outlook as a coping mechanism. Looking at the "silver lining" is their way to avoid trouble. So you can compare 7 and 8 this way - a 7 is more likely to try to convince themselves that they aren't bothered, or that everything is otherwise okay, while an Eight would want to confront it head on. This definitely doesn't mean that Sevens have to be happy people, though.


7's = supress
8's = confront head on

I only know one person who is a 7 and not positive.


Edit: I would also separate, "happy" from "positive". I wouldn't necessarily say 7's are happier with their lifes, but I would say they are more positive than ony other type all other things equal.


----------



## omistressmine

I'd say two key differences, other than the positive outlook stuff that's been discussed above:

1) How confrontational one is
2) How much one appears a bit heady/full of nervous energy

7w8s will be more openly confrontational with others than 7w6s, who generally prefer to charm. But 8w7s might be the most openly confrontational type on the Enneagram and when they do confront someone, it'll be with more "gut" force than if they were a 7w8.

7w8s will also have less of a fidgety, nervous quality than 7w6s do, but 8w7s will give off a much more grounded, gut energy. Not to say that some 7s aren't very grounded -- it's not the difference between being a well-grounded person and being flighty (although I suppose it can be) as much as just a certain gut energy 8s will have more of. And it's not really about assertiveness either -- both 7w8s (and 7w6s for that matter) and 8w7s will be assertive... the difference is the energy behind the assertiveness.


----------



## Mooncutter

omistressmine said:


> I'd say two key differences, other than the positive outlook stuff that's been discussed above:
> 
> 1) How confrontational one is
> 2) How much one appears a bit heady/full of nervous energy
> 
> 7w8s will be more openly confrontational with others than 7w6s, who generally prefer to charm. But 8w7s might be the most openly confrontational type on the Enneagram and when they do confront someone, it'll be with more "gut" force than if they were a 7w8.
> 
> 7w8s will also have less of a fidgety, nervous quality than 7w6s do, but 8w7s will give off a much more grounded, gut energy. Not to say that some 7s aren't very grounded -- it's not the difference between being a well-grounded person and being flighty (although I suppose it can be) as much as just a certain gut energy 8s will have more of. And it's not really about assertiveness either -- both 7w8s (and 7w6s for that matter) and 8w7s will be assertive... the difference is the energy behind the assertiveness.


*In my experience 7w6 DO* lack a certain assertive quality. They are also the most sensitive type for group pressure, did you notice? They also have a higher than average fear of confrontation.

*They DO have a nervous, *fidgety quality to them, though. 8w7 are the most openly aggresive type there is. Their fear of confrontation is only there when they expect loosing, and eve then its really a fear of that.


----------



## omistressmine

I'd say that all 7s are assertive (part of the assertive 3, 7, 8 triad) -- yes, the 7w8 more than the 7w6 -- it's just that when the 7w6 "asserts," it'll usually be done in a friendly, charming, amicable way. And yes, 7w6s especially dislike open confrontation.

Yes, 8w7 is the most openly aggressive type. Regarding nervous energy: if the 8w7 is nervous about an upcoming confrontation, the nervi-ness will come from a more physical place. It's difficult to explain in text but easy to spot in person.


----------



## Fenrir317

Mooncutter said:


> *I sure will. Both are extremely* active and outgoing, as both enneagram layers are active.
> 
> 
> 8w7 do not turn everything[/B] you say into something positive. They are also the best at verbally sparring, tooling people, and enjoy it a lot. They are the elementary school bullies. And as primary trait they take confrontation head on; the bull by its horn. 8w7 have basically no fear of confrontation whatsoever, which is unusual.
> 
> *Their feelings are *also VERY strong and very active. The easiest way to determine an 8 is to look in his/her eyes. All except very healthy ones has a rawness to them. Like a deep primal instinct; animal ferocity. 8's also react with anger under emotional pressure, always. Never sadness, melancholy or anything like it. Just pure anger, strong also. Which might be the easiest way to set them apart. If the 8 is not very laid back, hence 8w9. It is an 8w7.
> 
> 8's also rate everything as all or nothing. Ask an 8 to rate an experience, he will give 1 or 10. Never like a mediocre 5 =)
> Like 4's they enjoy the *intensity* of emotions.
> 
> Cheers


 This is very true for me thank you for posting this. I used to think I was a Type 7w8 though it always seemed like something was off and then I looked into both Type descriptions more and took the test and found the 8w7 was the most fiiting (don't know the tritype though) as I doubt that 7s would enjoy constantly engaging in aggresive debate and even angering them so much. And the emotional intensity is very true I used to have this strange addiction almost to emotions where I would indluge in emotions in a way to get that heightened state of being (for better or worse) often by manipulating others to confront me or make me angry so I could have an easy conduit for emotion even if it was aggresion. That being said I'm not the healthiest Type 8 yet and have a long way to go in the sense of progress but nonethelless it is good to finnally know for certain which Enneatype you are.


----------



## Fenrir317

omistressmine said:


> Yes, 8w7 is the most openly aggressive type. Regarding nervous energy: if the 8w7 is nervous about an upcoming confrontation, the nervi-ness will come from a more physical place. It's difficult to explain in text but easy to spot in person.


 I know this to be true from personal experience as for example the other day I was extremely worried about something and I couldn't stand being in a public place and with family with all the axiety or at least anxiousness I had and when my sister was talking to me I couldn't help but snap back at her nastily before I even knew what I was doing and then the agressiveness rose to meet the anxiousness and soon enough I wasn't allowing anyone to talk to me without recieving a rather blunt comment. I felt sorry about it though or at least thought I did but couldn't managed to work up an apology with all those emotions circling within my and I just wanted the solace and control of being at home. This has also happened between friends at times but luckily I don't get that nervous often.


----------



## 480

omistressmine said:


> I'd say two key differences, other than the positive outlook stuff that's been discussed above:
> 
> 1) How confrontational one is
> 2) How much one appears a bit heady/full of nervous energy
> 
> 7w8s will be more openly confrontational with others than 7w6s, who generally prefer to charm. But 8w7s might be the most openly confrontational type on the Enneagram and when they do confront someone, it'll be with more "gut" force than if they were a 7w8.
> 
> 7w8s will also have less of a fidgety, nervous quality than 7w6s do, but 8w7s will give off a much more grounded, gut energy. Not to say that some 7s aren't very grounded -- it's not the difference between being a well-grounded person and being flighty (although I suppose it can be) as much as just a certain gut energy 8s will have more of. And it's not really about assertiveness either -- both 7w8s (and 7w6s for that matter) and 8w7s will be assertive... the difference is the energy behind the assertiveness.


This is pretty much dead on. I had an ESTJ 7w8 Sp/Sx shop chief... I suspect his gut fix was 8w7. At times you'd almost take him for an 8, except every now and again he'd overreact at things I could just not relate to getting upset about, and he'd stay bitter acting for half the day over it. 

This video is of Sawyer from Lost. He's a great example of a 7w8.






Also from lost, Eko an 8 decides to help Jin find his friend. Jin sets off to go alone and doesn't understand english, Eko steps in his way to stop him and Jin hits him right in the face. There's this pause... and then Eko puts him on his ass. Then that's it. It ended there. Eko still helps Jin find his friend.

As far as nervous energy goes:








I keep reading 8w7 is the most openly confrontational and aggressive type. This is false. The most aggressive type I've ever seen is a countershame 3. A 7w8 is also more aggressive, but both of these types have less of a certain alpha quality to them. 6w5s can also be very aggressive, and highly reactive, but unless they have an 8 gut fix there's almost no trace of alpha in it.

8w7s while not as aggressive/reactive as above, are the most alpha of types. 8w9s are indomitable, the aggression is toned way down. 8w7s are out in the "the game" moving and shaking, pushing buttons. 8w9 is more defensive in nature, "don't start nothing and there wont be nothing".


----------



## 480

Fenrir317 said:


> I know this to be true from personal experience as for example the other day I was extremely worried about something and I couldn't stand being in a public place and with family with all the axiety or at least anxiousness I had and when my sister was talking to me I couldn't help but snap back at her nastily before I even knew what I was doing and then the agressiveness rose to meet the anxiousness and soon enough I wasn't allowing anyone to talk to me without recieving a rather blunt comment. I felt sorry about it though or at least thought I did but couldn't managed to work up an apology with all those emotions circling within my and I just wanted the solace and control of being at home. This has also happened between friends at times but luckily I don't get that nervous often.


This is not 8 at all. Reading this I see one theme over and over: anxiety, worry, nervousness. This is 6w5.

8 anger comes from a place of sadness. 6 anger comes from a place of fear/worry.


----------



## omistressmine

Yeah, I'd agree with your distinctions, Grim. I think we were conflating aggressiveness with that very specific type of "alpha aggressiveness" you mentioned. 7w8s and 3s (especially 3s) will have a much more needling quality to their aggression; less of a "I'm here now, so deal with me" that 8s (especially 8w7s) will have.

Howard Stern is a great example of the 7w8.


----------



## omistressmine

Grim said:


> This is not 8 at all. Reading this I see one theme over and over: anxiety, worry, nervousness. This is 6w5.
> 
> 8 anger comes from a place of sadness. 6 anger comes from a place of fear/worry.


I completely agree that Fenrir's post didn't sound 8ish at ALL, but can you expand a bit more on the 8 anger coming from a place of sadness? I've always interpreted 8 anger as coming from an extreme aversion to being controlled.


----------



## 480

omistressmine said:


> I completely agree that Fenrir's post didn't sound 8ish at ALL, but can you expand a bit more on the 8 anger coming from a place of sadness? I've always interpreted 8 anger as coming from an extreme aversion to being controlled.


Every type has a basic fear, and will work toward eliminating it. This in itself doesnt invoke anger in every type, or rather reactive anger. It will however invoke action. An 8 is more likely to see someone trying to screw with him and think "how could you be so dumb?". 

Keeping in mind 8s are usually angry all the time... irritated about something. It's the lack of reaction that sets them apart. The lack of expression of that anger. It's the inert presentation while the anger rages behind the eyes.

This is a great example of that, this opening exchange between Hector and Achilles(8w7). Achilles is going to kill Hector because Hector killed Achilles cousin by mistake. You can see the anger, but Achilles remains inert. He "saves it for the fight" as it were.


----------

