# Student Loans Suck!



## fihe (Aug 30, 2012)

I'm proud to say that as of today, I owe $0.00 in student loans! 

I originally borrowed $25,000 for my university expenses during the 2010-2011 academic year. my tuition, plus housing, meal plan, and other fees normally add up to a little less than that per year (about $23-24K), but my parents for some reason wanted to borrow $25K, I guess to cover other school-related expenses, such as transportation. I went to a public university, so keep in mind that if I had gone to a private university, the costs would probably be about twice as high. my parents had been paying the student loan payments each month for a year or so, then I made the payments myself for about the same amount of time thereafter. but thanks to a wonderful cash gift from my grandfather after his old house sold, I was able to pay off the remaining $16,000! I thought I'd write this post to let people know about student loans and how they work, in case anyone is thinking of taking one out.

I borrowed most of my money from Sallie Mae, a private student loan company, and the rest from the US Department of Education. the DoE offers both subsidized and unsubsidized loans (referring to subsidizing by the government). I think I had something like $2500 DoE sub, $5000 DoE unsub, and $17,500 from Sallie Mae. normally, people are only able to get a couple thousand dollars from the DoE, but it depends on your financial need. more of it will be in the form of an unsubsidized loan, which has a higher interest rate.

as for Sallie Mae, the interest rates can fluctuate and may depend on your credit score, but lately it's been pretty stable at 9.25%, which is quite high. payments are typically due each month, unlike the DoE which usually gives you a few months or perhaps even almost a year between payments. in an attempt to pay off my loan fast, I would save up enough of my money to pay $1000-2000 to Sallie Mae at a time, which covered my monthly payment (of interest only), plus be able to slowly pay off the principal balance. I would probably reserve about 80% of my meager paycheck to save up for these payments, which is why I used to refer to Sallie Mae as "my owner".

most students will need a cosigner, such as a parent, for their student loans. without one, either you won't be able to get a loan at all (because you lack credit history), or your interest rate will be extremely high. for some types of loans, you may not need to start making payments until after you graduate, but I think this may lead to a higher interest rate. if you do not make your payments on time each month, you become delinquent, and extended loan delinquency causes loan default. I don't know too much about this, but you can read the following Wikipedia article on student loans in the United States.

I would highly advise anyone against going to college if you do not readily have the money to pay. take a year off to work full-time, or perhaps even go to school part-time while working a part-time job. you could also save a lot of money by going to a community college, or a public university reasonably close to your home that you can commute to. I didn't do either because I thought it was beneath me and I wanted to get out of the house at any cost (that I didn't have to pay...at the time) -_- if I hadn't received any help at all paying my student loan, I would be paying it for a rather long time, and a $25,000 loan is considered small! I think most people with loans borrow about $40,000.

oh yeah, and so far my college degree is worthless. ha


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## Razare (Apr 21, 2009)

huesos said:


> oh yeah, and so far my college degree is worthless. ha


Yeah, that's the problem.

To make a college degree useful, you need EXPERIENCE in the field. Without that, it's really not all that useful, as even entry-level positions like a person to have 2 years experience doing something similar.

Once you have those 2 to 5 years and a bachelors, the world of careers opens up to a person.

So I think going to college and getting a degree in a field, should include a plan on how to get at least one year on-the-job experience in the field.


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## fihe (Aug 30, 2012)

@Razare yes, I wish I had known that when I was in school! I didn't have any internships (unless you count fieldwork and student teaching, which were required for me to graduate) because they were not applicable to my major and I only wanted to take what I really needed, lest I waste more time and money.

I wonder if needing experience in one's field before graduation has always been necessary, or if it's a new thing.


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## Arbite (Dec 26, 2010)

YAY! The government pays my university fees!


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## dizzycactus (Sep 9, 2012)

what a retarded system. Here, you don't pay until after graduation, and you don't pay until you're making 16k or more (GBP). The interest is also only equal to inflation, and the amount deducted from you when paying is a percentage of your total salary that is usually affordable. also, tuition fees are about 5k a year in USD, or a little more.


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## Palaver (Jan 5, 2010)

Razare said:


> Once you have those 2 to 5 years and a bachelors, the world of careers opens up to a person.
> 
> So I think going to college and getting a degree in a field, should include a plan on how to get at least one year on-the-job experience in the field.


It is a labor market. If certain positions were limited and most candidates had 2 to 5 years experience, they would push their requirements to 6 to 10 years. It is where you stand relative to other candidates. If a business really wanted to fill a position, they would lower the qualifications, increase the offer, and retrain the individual. 

Risk is suppose to equal profit. But if society/industry isn't willing to lay down the capital alongside personal financial risk, then you have to wonder what's really going on. Seriously though, teenagers shouldn't be taking these kinds of risks at their age. America is a strange country and they are staring down the barrel of the next debt crisis.


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## Death Persuades (Feb 17, 2012)

Your problem was going with a private loan, not student loans themselves. Although I do agree with trying to avoid them. I actually am going to college with what I have, not with what I may have in the future. This semester I took only 12 credits because that's what I can afford if I don't get financial aid. Next semester I might be able to afford more without financial aid, if I get it this semester... But I'll probably take 12 again just to be on the safe side. It will take longer to graduate, but I'd do it without owing a penny and still having a few grand saved up


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## bluekitdon (Dec 19, 2012)

Experience + Degree = More Money Than Without Degree. Usually. Question is if the difference is great enough to cover the cost of the tuition, I think the answer depends on what career you are wanting to go after. Put a calculator to it before agreeing to put down all that money. Research what you think you will enjoy and do what it takes to succeed in that field, might be certifications rather than college. 

When I make hiring decisions, I'm not too hung up on what school you got the degree from but having a degree is something I consider when looking through a stack of resumes. Just because the job description states that a degree is required doesn't necessarily mean I'll reject you if you don't have one if you can show me why I should believe that you have enough knowledge to do the job. A history degree means nothing to me if I'm looking for a technician though, so carefully consider what you actually want to do before you go into college. 

You need to do something to stand out to get a job in the competitive world today, actually call to check in and follow up with emails or better yet neatly typed and mailed letters after any conversation. Send a resume on heavy resume paper, neatly folded into a nice envelope. Interesting how those stand out in a stack of resumes on my desk and how few I get...guaranteed to get a second look. Make sure you do a spelling and grammar check before sending anything!


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## fihe (Aug 30, 2012)

@bluekitdon, thank you for your input. I suppose you are a hiring manager?

I find that most jobs I apply to are online-only, but I suppose if I ever need to submit a paper résumé, I could use a nice kind of paper. even though I'm all for saving trees, I actually wish that more companies would accept paper applications, because then I know it would actually be read by a human! I feel like most résumés are discarded before a person actually gets to read them, because they're pre-scanned by a computer that may deem the candidate unqualified due to lack of certain keywords.

@dizzycactus, some people here in the US don't pay off their loans until after they graduate, but I think that is only possible with the government loan. I know with the private loan company, there are two plans available. the one I took has you paying $100-150 a month, whereas the other has a fixed rate of about $25 a month, which I believe is only until you graduate. the problem with the latter plan is that the person pays more over the long term.


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## dizzycactus (Sep 9, 2012)

huesos said:


> @_bluekitdon_, thank you for your input. I suppose you are a hiring manager?
> 
> I find that most jobs I apply to are online-only, but I suppose if I ever need to submit a paper résumé, I could use a nice kind of paper. even though I'm all for saving trees, I actually wish that more companies would accept paper applications, because then I know it would actually be read by a human! I feel like most résumés are discarded before a person actually gets to read them, because they're pre-scanned by a computer that may deem the candidate unqualified due to lack of certain keywords.


And the personality tests are the worst... maybe it gets better with slightly more academic jobs, but I've been rejected from every single entry-level part time job I've applied for, I think because of that test. It's such blatant discrimination against INPs in particular. If you're not naturally outgoing, super-organised, sociable, confident, attention to detail, hands-on, they just assume you can't do the job well enough. They want ESJs. Maybe ESPs, to a slightly lesser extent. But the idea that I am incapable of the same degree of competence just because my personality doesn't tend to all that, regardless of how adaptable I can be... and especially with the way that they assume those traits are the only valuable ones. Really, really frustrating. I can act like they want, not like it's particularly mentally challenging to be a talkative, mindless worker-drone. And I can also use my natural strengths in addition. Maybe improvisation, problem solving, observation, calmness, objectivity can be good too? But never mind... won't need minimum wage jobs when I'm being paid 45K+ next year.


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## bluekitdon (Dec 19, 2012)

huesos said:


> @_bluekitdon_, thank you for your input. I suppose you are a hiring manager?
> 
> I find that most jobs I apply to are online-only, but I suppose if I ever need to submit a paper résumé, I could use a nice kind of paper. even though I'm all for saving trees, I actually wish that more companies would accept paper applications, because then I know it would actually be read by a human! I feel like most résumés are discarded before a person actually gets to read them, because they're pre-scanned by a computer that may deem the candidate unqualified due to lack of certain keywords.


I am a general manager, and am heavily involved in the hiring decisions for our company as I believe getting the right people on board is a huge key to our success. Some companies do require electronic resumes, but you can usually find an address to send a paper copy to as well with a little research and maybe a phone call or two. Your first biggest challenge is getting noticed, your goal for your resume is to show that you are worth taking the time to call and bring in for an interview. The last position I hired for, I had close to 100 applicants. You would be surprised at how many did not write a cover letter, or did not tailor their resume to our company and the specific position, some even had the name of a previous company they applied to in the cover letter if they did use a cover letter! Unless you are applying to flip burgers, you are going for a position that you will likely spend the next several years of your life in. If you aren't interested in spending the time to do a little research into what you are applying for, create a nice cover letter, and do a little follow up, you probably don't have a great chance at getting in any professional position. And put on a suit or professional business clothes if you do get called in!


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## fihe (Aug 30, 2012)

@dizzycactus that's why you need to lie...I mean: tell them what they want to hear.

@bluekitdon I agree that a cover letter is important, although I'll admit that my résumé and cover letter I send to each school district I apply to are the same, except with the cover letter I'll change the name of the addressee, the school, and the grade level. I may also include additional information if it pertains to the position. I wonder if it's a bad thing that I always submit the same résumé. after all, it's all for the same job, just in different places.


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## dizzycactus (Sep 9, 2012)

huesos said:


> @_dizzycactus_ that's why you need to lie...I mean: tell them what they want to hear.


I don't like lying... I think because it is an affront that I should have to. I've essentially excelled throughout my life just being who I am, in things that were important to me. If I put some effort in, wasn't a single person in school that could beat me, whether it was academically, or the debating club, or whatever. So why should I have to act as though I am inferior in some way? I've gotten much further than many people I know who get these jobs, and supposedly they are better than me for them. 
The principle of discrimination exists whether or not it is easy to personally circumvent. And that is what annoys me.


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## bluekitdon (Dec 19, 2012)

huesos said:


> @_bluekitdon_ I agree that a cover letter is important, although I'll admit that my résumé and cover letter I send to each school district I apply to are the same, except with the cover letter I'll change the name of the addressee, the school, and the grade level. I may also include additional information if it pertains to the position. I wonder if it's a bad thing that I always submit the same résumé. after all, it's all for the same job, just in different places.


You're fine using the same resume. Just don't put a lot of extra stuff in there that doesn't apply to the specific position you are going for. For example, if you are sending your resume in for a janitorial position, don't put in your objective that you want to be CEO (ok, extreme example but you get the point). You may want to add or remove a few things if you feel they are applicable to the specific skill set the employer is looking for. It does make a difference, at least to me, if you have done a little bit of homework on the company as well and I can see that you are interested in this specific position and not just spamming your resume to 100 different places in hopes that something will come through.


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## Razare (Apr 21, 2009)

huesos said:


> I wonder if needing experience in one's field before graduation has always been necessary, or if it's a new thing.


It's a new thing. Back in 2005 and earlier, there were plenty of places seeking college graduates. Back then, I used to get recruiters calling me, seeing if I wanted a job, because they had gotten my info from my college. This still happens to a certain extent, if you go to a good university, focusing on a field that has higher demand.

Now there is no point in hiring green college grads if you don't have to. Can hire someone with experience and pay them a little bit more, and not have to waste thousands training them.

And someone mentioned that if everyone had experience before getting their degree, or in tandem with it, that employers would raise requirements to 6 years experience. This isn't true. If everyone followed my advice, then people would drop out of college early, switch majors, or not even go in the first place because they'd realize they're unable to attain experience.

The most statistically likely way to bridge the gap from no experience to getting hired so you can get some, is to be hired by someone you know. A good acquaintance or a friend. This is how most jobs are attained, and it's basically the way to offset the fact you have no experience. This means making contacts while in college and even before college, I think.

If you're not the type of person to make contacts like this, and you don't know someone in the industry to have a chance of getting a foot in the door, there's really no reason to get into an industry that requires experience for the time being. Not until the economy changes.

The economy isn't changing, it's just having minor hiccups of improvement while real fundamental indicators (not government ones) are gradually getting worse. This stagnated economy will continue so long as we don't have a balanced budget, as this is the primary limitation on growth. The uncertainty debt ceiling debates cause, along with ever-changing tax code, and unfunded social benefits, it's just a quagmire for business planning. If anything, there will be a window here and there where the economy picks up for 1 or 2 years to get some people hired, but we'll maintain record unemployment for the next 10+ years at this rate.


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## fihe (Aug 30, 2012)

@Razare I wish I had more work experience, but when I was an undergrad, I was only able to work a few days a week as a cashier. I wanted a job that would not consume my life, plus I didn't have a car, so my work options were limited to what I could access by a short bus ride from my university. I know some people go to school full-time while working full-time. I don't know how they do it! the quality of my academic work would suffer.

I'm horrible at making/keeping connections with people, but fortunately for me, most teaching jobs around here only require a teacher certification in the specified subject, which I have. on the other hand, everyone else applying has a certification as well, whether it was obtained through a traditional teacher education program (which I did), or alternate route, which I don't know too much about. so I guess just having the cert is not enough, since it's just the basic requirement 

where did you go to college, btw?


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## dizzycactus (Sep 9, 2012)

i have a law student friend and a med student friend. i'm doing software engineering. maybe we could set up a small private practice together lol.


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## bellisaurius (Jan 18, 2012)

Could always join the military like I did. It was nice not to worry about the money while I was in. Also, when I got out, I was an "Independent student" for FAFSA purposes. As that meant my income (and not my parents.. not that it would have mattered) was the only that counted, I qualified for quite a bit of need based aid.


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## fihe (Aug 30, 2012)

today I got an email from Sallie Mae advertising their credit card. the title said, "Earn cash back to help pay down your student loan". BITCH I'M DONE WITH YOU


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## perkinmerchant (Feb 9, 2013)

If you are one of those who is searching for an effective solution for an effective solution for financing your education that Student Loans without cosigner is the best option for you. It provides monetary help to those students who are not in a position to bear out all the higher studies expenses.


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