# 5 vs. 7 the difference



## missybchoi (Sep 26, 2011)

so ever since i came across tritypes, i've been thinking i was a 9-7-4. but after someone's post on internet, i had to requestion this.

i guess just core type alone, it's easy to distinguish, but when mixed within the tritype, it's harder to distinguish.. ok so the similarities:



> They are both highly curious, exploratory, and willing to try new ways of doing things. Both types also have a propensity to collect things and to be high strung.


so i have that. but now what's the difference?

it says 5's are withdrawn but 7's like to stay active.
and i'm withdrawn but at the same time i love being active.

i do alot of 5 things: thinking a lot, collecting knowledge, very curious.
5's motivation: curiosity & development. check.
and i also do 7 things: prone to addiction, love having fun, very positive and upbeat, some ppl think i'm highly sociable, etc.
7's motivation: freedom & happiness. check. 
arggg:angry:

i also know that 5's disintegrate to 7, and 7's integrate to 5... so this is even harder.

what do you think is the fact that seperates 7 from 5, 5 from 7???
what are the differences??


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## SaturnComesBackAround (Oct 4, 2011)

I think you are thinking to hard about it. No one can ever totally figure you out, a human being is always changing so just accept that.


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## Tucken (Dec 13, 2009)

7s learn by trial and error. They are out there swimming before they even know how to swim. <knowledge by experience>
5s learn by encyclopedias. They need to know before they venture into the pond. <knowledge by books>

And 6s are in between. They read books and they are out there too. I guess the common theme is they try to reduce anxiety by knowing how to do something.


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## darude11 (Jul 6, 2011)

Main difference (well, I think theoretically, I have never really met any type 7) is, that this is what would 7 be able to do anytime and 5 wouldn't ever do.

"Today I pay for everybody!" shouts while entering pub.

5 is obvious introvert, 7 extrovert, that loves fun.
5 have got less physical condition and self-trust, 7 more of both. (proven by science)
5 is obessed with performance in "intellect" part of mind, while 7 is obessed more with "looking for others as fun person".

Well, those are what have came to my mind. Of course the I/E thing may differ, so don't take that one seriously.


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## Paradigm (Feb 16, 2010)

missybchoi said:


> it says 5's are withdrawn but 7's like to stay active.
> and i'm withdrawn but at the same time i love being active.
> 
> i do alot of 5 things: thinking a lot, collecting knowledge, very curious.
> ...


7s are positive outlook, so they're optimistic. They form their own world view and whenever this this violated, they get devastated. They care more about the outside world since it's their only escape. They're more obvious with their anxiety. Their mind flits around.

5's are withdrawn, over-prepare by gathering information, and detach from everything they can to cope with stress. They're contained and self-reliant. More thoughtful, linear.

You practically scream 7w6-fix rather than a 5-fix.

The reason you identify with 5's withdrawn behavior is because your core type is withdrawn. 9s will retreat from the world just as fast as 5s will, same with 4s. 
(And quite frankly, any type can be curious and think a lot, but 5s take it to a whole new level. These types of descriptors often understate the fixation of 5s.)


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## missybchoi (Sep 26, 2011)

Paradigm said:


> 7s are positive outlook, so they're optimistic. They form their own world view and whenever this this violated, they get devastated. They care more about the outside world since it's their only escape. They're more obvious with their anxiety. Their mind flits around.
> 
> 5's are withdrawn, over-prepare by gathering information, and detach from everything they can to cope with stress. They're contained and self-reliant. More thoughtful, linear.


I guess this is really true. My brother's a 5, and when there's a family issue and I'm upset, and he would tell me to not feel too strong about it. And he'd tell me this bcuz he's worried about me. But I wouldn't really understand what he's saying and get confused as to figure out why he was saying that. lol. But now I totally understand it... my brother detaches his emotions from wtvr issues so that it doesn't affect him. And so he was advising me to do the same thing so that it wouldn't affect me. (but doesn't work for me lol)



> You practically scream 7w6-fix rather than a 5-fix.


ahaha..I lol'd at this... do I really? lol and "scream" is so 7 too lol.



> The reason you identify with 5's withdrawn behavior is because your core type is withdrawn. 9s will retreat from the world just as fast as 5s will, same with 4s.


true true.



> (And quite frankly, any type can be curious and think a lot, but 5s take it to a whole new level. These types of descriptors often understate the fixation of 5s.)


this sentence nailed it for me! This is really important... I guess that "fixation" might be the best indicator whether or not you have a 5 fix. And I think it's a hard concept to grasp if you never get to hear it from a 5's perspective..

your post got me thinking a lot hard and you gave me a clear answer. I actually read this long time ago via email but was never able to come back to post a reply! but anyhow thank you so much for the post!


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## zallla (Oct 11, 2011)

missybchoi said:


> it says 5's are withdrawn but 7's like to stay active.
> and i'm withdrawn but at the same time i love being active.
> 
> i do alot of 5 things: thinking a lot, collecting knowledge, very curious.
> ...


I think there are many incorrect stereotypes there... Type Seven has a monkey mind, type Seven is also thinking a lot. I think (think think think I repeat myself sorry but we do think) that the way they think is different though. Fives think in depth, Sevens in width. At least that's how I have understood this. It is wrong to assume that only Fives are being active thinkers since Sevens are usually very curious, fast (Fives are more precise) and inventive.

It is true that Sevens are enthusiastic and joyful when healthy but they can also be unhealthy and feel negative emotions like anyone else. Many times Seven feel those feelings more than they show them and are more extroverted and enthusiastic than they realize. Sevens have a childlike quality in them and many Sevens look younger than they are.


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## mushr00m (May 23, 2011)

5's withdraw from the environment and 7's interact with the environment with 6's inbetween who both interact and introspect.


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## aconite (Mar 26, 2012)

My, these issues look so familiar to me. I can relate to both 5 and 7 (or to 5w4 and 7w8, to be exact), although it's really hard to decide. I like knowledge and I like having fun. I'm not an obvious extrovert, that much is clear, but I love new experiences.


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## sleepyhead (Nov 14, 2011)

darude11 said:


> Main difference (well, I think theoretically, I have never really met any type 7) is, that this is *what would 7 be able to do anytime and 5 wouldn't ever do.*
> 
> "Today I pay for everybody!" shouts while entering pub.
> 
> ...


The bold parts are the pieces that caught my eye.

I don't think you can say what a 7 will do a 5 would never do. My brother is a 7 and we both have similar interests including hiking, back-country camping, rock climbing, biking, running, etc. I think a lot of 5's and 7's have a lot in common in terms of how their behaviours manifest. But while we both have the same interests, I'll carefully research what I'm going to do, plan it out, make sure I know the risks and my own limits. While he'll decide he wants to do something, will do little to know pre-planning, and will just do it often with a few injuries along the way.

I can only speak of my own experience as a 5, but I would say my self-trust is much stronger than that of the 3 sevens I know. I'm the only person I really trust and only my opinion really counts. I enjoy retreating to my mind and exploring my issues - the 7's I know in the average range avoid looking inward in a more intentional way.

A lot gets said about 5's being withdrawn and 7's wanting to have fun, but I think it's important to remember that although 5's might not be able to express all their emotions in the moment, a lot of us love to have fun, are really optimistic people, and have a very cheery outlook on life. It's just that unless you know us intimately, you probably won't see those parts. But they're very strongly alive within me.

I think you said it right though, in that a lot of 7's are looking for a social group that can also have fun with. My fun is usually mostly solitary or with 1-5 other close friends. When I have a "party" it's usually only 6-8 of us. When my brother has a party it's usually a 50+ person house party.


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## zallla (Oct 11, 2011)

sleepyhead said:


> I think you said it right though, in that a lot of 7's are looking for a social group that can also have fun with. My fun is usually mostly solitary or with 1-5 other close friends. When I have a "party" it's usually only 6-8 of us. When my brother has a party it's usually a 50+ person house party.


I do not think you can generalize it like this. I think this is more related to the subtypes than Enneagram types. What motivation would it be to want to have 50+ friends instead of just a few? Always wanting more? In my case that relates to wanting more when it comes to that one particular person. I am a Seven and I definitely prefer one-to-one or just a few others. I am having sexual subtype first and social last and I think you can recognize that pattern here.


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## sleepyhead (Nov 14, 2011)

zallla said:


> I do not think you can generalize it like this. I think this is more related to the subtypes than Enneagram types. What motivation would it be to want to have 50+ friends instead of just a few? Always wanting more? In my case that relates to wanting more when it comes to that one particular person. I am a Seven and I definitely prefer one-to-one or just a few others. I am having sexual subtype first and social last and I think you can recognize that pattern here.


That's why I was careful to word it _a lot of_ and not all. My brother is absolutely a SO subtype, so the 50+ isn't surprising in his case - 
but I used the party example as a way of showing his comfort with a lot of activity and interaction vs. my preferance for a calm, quieter, less stimulating interaction. The number isn't really important -I should have said _social stimulation _rather than _social group._

I don't think all or even most 7's want to have that kind of interaction _all the time_ but that they're more open to it. When he has shindig like that I make an appearance and leave after 1/2 hour whereas he parties the whole night. However, the people he considers close friends can probably be counted on 2 hands. But even closing it in further and abandoning the party, I prefer to have my 4 close friends for a night of just staying in and chatting while he prefers something that is outside of his house with a lot of stimulation whether it's 1-1 or more folks - those are the kind of things I only like once every so often but he's open for them on a regular basis.

But that said, I've also really seen him integrate in the last couple of years and a lot of the 5 traits coming out - that was something I meant to mention in the last post re: 5's and 7's looking similar.


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## zallla (Oct 11, 2011)

zallla said:


> Fives are more precise.





sleepyhead said:


> That's why I was careful to word it _a lot of_ and not all.


I never noticed or realized that ^_^ But I agree with you now that you explained what you mean... Also I recognize many Five issues, the connection is there, those types _can_ look similar which indeed makes this thread valuable.


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## perfectcircle (Jan 5, 2011)

I am torn as well- I don't know if my thinking center is a 5 or a 7. I know for sure it is not a 6.

4-7-8, 4-5-8... can't decide.. ugh...


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## aconite (Mar 26, 2012)

adverseaffects said:


> I am torn as well- I don't know if my thinking center is a 5 or a 7. I know for sure it is not a 6.
> 
> 4-7-8, 4-5-8... can't decide.. ugh...


I wondered about the same thing, and finally decided that my head fix is 7w8 after all. 458 and 478 might look deceptively similar IMO. Both are direct, both are intense, creative, independent, eccentric and passionate about things they like.



458 said:


> seeing your place as in the shadows is exactly how the 458 describes themselves





478 said:


> original thinkers that follow their own muse and must get the message out


I can relate way more to the 478 quote. Sure, I'm still a bit similar to 458; I'm attracted to dark, morbid, broken things, and I'm not a super-optimistic, cheerful, happy-go-lucky 7 stereotype.


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## perfectcircle (Jan 5, 2011)

aconite said:


> I wondered about the same thing, and finally decided that my head fix is 7w8 after all. 458 and 478 might look deceptively similar IMO. Both are direct, both are intense, creative, independent, eccentric and passionate about things they like.
> 
> 
> 
> I can relate way more to the 478 quote. Sure, I'm still a bit similar to 458; I'm attracted to dark, morbid, broken things, and I'm not a super-optimistic, cheerful, happy-go-lucky 7 stereotype.


Yeah, I really relate to the idea of "458 and 478 are their own authoritiy". i'll just tinker with it over time and see where I end up. hard to tell cause since 4 is more core, of course I relate more to 5, dark and introverted, but that doesn't really mean anything, 4 is juts obsucring that waters. my thinking center is hard to see for me.


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## The Wanderering ______ (Jul 17, 2012)

zallla said:


> I do not think you can generalize it like this. I think this is more related to the subtypes than Enneagram types. What motivation would it be to want to have 50+ friends instead of just a few? Always wanting more? In my case that relates to wanting more when it comes to that one particular person. I am a Seven and I definitely prefer one-to-one or just a few others. I am having sexual subtype first and social last and I think you can recognize that pattern here.


There are 2 things about this that I find funny. First that I'm reviving an old thread, and 2nd that I am opposite on this.
I'm an Sx/So and I actually like large social gatherings, although I prefer unorganized and more informal ones compared to formal ones. But I like parties with about 20+ people, but I think because of my Sx dominancy whenever I find someone from the party who interests me I usually just focus on that person for the rest of the night, and that happens a lot at many social events I go to.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

When it comes to the withdrawn types, one ought to ask, "where is your energy directed?". Even if one is struggling between 5 and 7 for head fix and being a core withdrawn type but not a 5 or a 7 (4 or 9), you have to look at the motivations of where your focal point of analysis is aimed. 5 studies a subject rigorously until the 5 feels she has sufficient knowledge and understanding of the subject as to avoid anxiety, but the 7 looks externally at what possibilities there are to make something happen. Remember that 5s fear lack of knowledge but 7s fear the feeling of being stuck and stale. 

All 5s and 7s share line of connection to 5 and 7, this much is true, I can definitely see 7 traits in myself in how I like to have fun, can spend a lot of time on activities because I felt like doing so in the moment and I'm open to new possibilities of fun, but when determining the difference between 5 and 7, one should not look at amount of energy alone as this can be missleading. An integrated 5 is more likely to make things happen and an integrated 7 can appear as calmer than your average 7. 

The question then becomes, "do I need knowledge in order to survive?" or "do I need actions in order to survive?" Is the energy directed towards one thing or many things? Do you spend more time researching a subject of interest to you or do you spend more time thinking of things you'd rather do than what is happening here and now?


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## JoanCrawford (Sep 27, 2012)

missybchoi said:


> so ever since i came across tritypes, i've been thinking i was a 9-7-4. but after someone's post on internet, i had to requestion this.
> 
> i guess just core type alone, it's easy to distinguish, but when mixed within the tritype, it's harder to distinguish.. ok so the similarities:
> 
> ...


They're really easy to distinguish between. Seven's are these major dare-devils and they are VERY outgoing. They are also party-animals. Fives are introverted, and very focused on their surroundings. They are very deep and stoic.


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## The Wanderering ______ (Jul 17, 2012)

JoanCrawford said:


> They're really easy to distinguish between. Seven's are these major dare-devils and they are VERY outgoing. They are also party-animals. Fives are introverted, and very focused on their surroundings. They are very deep and stoic.


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! ALL THE STEREOTYPES!!!! Seriously just stop. I don't know for sure, but I feel like you're making a joke in sarcasm. You have to level with me though because it is hard to detect sarcasm in a thread over the internet(you won't believe how many people never figure that out). 

Anyway I think you should know that I am a 7 and definitely don't fit the stereotype as party animal, or daredevil. Hell, back when I was little I used to be afraid of everything (the dark, witches, tornadoes, roller coaster, dogs, to ride a bike, etc) I don't think it was until I was 13 and I got hurt so much that I started to build a tolerance for pain, and stopped being scared. Now roller coasters don't scare me anymore. The dark excites my imagination(total necrophiliac). I talk to my doctor while i'm getting a shot, etc. The point is I don't fit the stereotype of a 7. In fact I probably act a lot like a 5. I talk very monotone like, I can be very intellectual, I get mad when someone doubts my logic, or when someone says something illogical. I think the biggest difference though is that 5s love research and 7s love ideas because of that they could have similar interests. I think researching Typology for a 5 would be stimulating because it would teach them about how to categorize the social world and deal with people. Plus the 5 would enjoy the prospect of becoming an expert at Typology because then if they get a job in typology they can get payed doing more .... you guessed it, Typology. Typology for an enneagram 7 is different. From my perspective its looking at everything bad you've done in your life having an explanation for it really learning how to control yourself. I like Typology because I want to do more with my life ,so I think if I find my type and keep it growing I can do more, explore more, and really become more of the person I'm supposed to be. Other than that I like Typology because it gives me a whole nother perspective on people (both real and fictional) that I just find interesting when it is explained. The main reason I don't think I'm an enneagram 5 is because I like information, but I can only read so much before I have to get up and move around. I can't sit still and do nothing for a long time. Hell, I don't think I was really that interested in typology until I came to PerC because now i can talk to people about it, and I never talk to my friends or family about it because I know they won't understand it.

So yea 7s who are on integration will a lot like 5, but they are still core 7s. They would rather be doing things than researching about doing things.


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