# is autism Fi-polr or Fe-polr?



## richard nixon (Sep 14, 2017)

is autism Fi-polr or Fe-polr?

i was thinking Fi-polr since most people with autism tend to like jokes and goof off more than most people without it and since people with autism are unyielding and domineering in relations and since every person with autism i knew was an SLE-Ti along with a few ILE-Ti. also, ENFp uses Fi, and they're the least detail oriented of all the types (people on the autism spectrum don't miss many details) and also have the most expansive affect of all the types.

although most people i've known on the autism spectrum always want to have a boyfriend or a girlfriend or a spouse, but i guess it's just due to a stronger than average need for good physical sensations rather than an emotional bond.


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## Notus Asphodelus (Jan 20, 2015)

richard nixon said:


> is autism Fi-polr or Fe-polr?
> ..although most people i've known on the autism spectrum always want to have a boyfriend or a girlfriend or a spouse, but i guess it's just due to a stronger than average need for good physical sensations rather than an emotional bond.


Perhaps Autism is not completely devoid of emotional bond for inanimate objects and people.. Any physical sensation should produce some form of emotion even if it associates with a feeling of comfort, safety or whatnot. For example a Mother's touch equals to safety and friendship.. It could probably be a learned attribute (what do I know?) but most human beings are born with at least a basic form of self preservation and I'm sure they wouldn't want to touch things for the sakes of touching unless it makes them feel at ease. What they may not comprehend is the undercurrent social aspect of emotion and this, from my personal opinion, is like heavily using Ti to make sense of Fi-Ne or Fe-Ni. 

Whether autism is Fi-polr or Fe-polr, I'm not sure. Fi seems like a probable answer, but it'd be great if they could answer for themselves as I think they would know how it is better than I do. It would be an interesting learning experience for all of us.


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## Dissymetry (Apr 15, 2019)

Everyone you know that is autistic is "SLE-Ti" according to who?


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## tinyheart (Jun 17, 2016)

richard nixon said:


> is autism Fi-polr or Fe-polr?
> 
> i was thinking Fi-polr since most people with autism tend to like jokes and goof off more than most people without it and since people with autism are unyielding and domineering in relations and since every person with autism i knew was an SLE-Ti along with a few ILE-Ti. also, ENFp uses Fi, and they're the least detail oriented of all the types (people on the autism spectrum don't miss many details) and also have the most expansive affect of all the types.
> 
> although most people i've known on the autism spectrum always want to have a boyfriend or a girlfriend or a spouse, but i guess it's just due to a stronger than average need for good physical sensations rather than an emotional bond.


I don't belong in the Socionics fandom but I am in the Autism fandom and if there's one thing I'd like to say is that no one type or function is representative of autistic persons or their traits. What Autism Spectrum Disorder and personality type have in common is that _they're both indiscriminate,_ meaning you can be born/develop into _any type_ and have autism/not have autism.


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## tinyheart (Jun 17, 2016)

Notus Asphodelus said:


> Perhaps Autism is not completely devoid of emotional bond for inanimate objects and people.. Any physical sensation should produce some form of emotion even if it associates with a feeling of comfort, safety or whatnot. For example a Mother's touch equals to safety and friendship.. It could probably be a learned attribute (what do I know?) but most human beings are born with at least a basic form of self preservation and I'm sure they wouldn't want to touch things for the sakes of touching unless it makes them feel at ease. What they may not comprehend is the undercurrent social aspect of emotion and this, from my personal opinion, is like heavily using Ti to make sense of Fi-Ne or Fe-Ni.
> 
> Whether autism is Fi-polr or Fe-polr, I'm not sure. Fi seems like a probable answer, but it'd be great if they could answer for themselves as I think they would know how it is better than I do. It would be an interesting learning experience for all of us.


1. It's not. 

2. Or fear or discomfort or pain. Also physical sensation has more to do with what I imagine are the sensing functions, and since all types differ in the type of sensing and the level of which they need it... _*gasps*_ // All autistic people are, in some form, sensitive to their surroundings. When it comes to physical sensation (which I'd expand the definition to also include sound, taste, smell, sight) each individual will take it differently and require accommodation. When it comes to touch, depending on the individual, touching objects is preferable to touching people for the same reason we hate looking people in the eye or having to interact with them outside our comfort zone.

...a reason I can't tell you what it is bc I don't really know. But it has to do with an inherent difficulty in responding to people and social situations.

3. Again I'm not in the Socionics fandom but autism is All-Functions-polr. :fall:


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## tinyheart (Jun 17, 2016)

Also since you asked about Fe and Fi:

Dominant feeling types as autists: Highest level of empathy, but may not be aware of things in the moment they're happening and would rely on retrospect to see where they went wrong. May not know how to respond to a situation correctly or at all. Does place a value on harmony, but has trouble achieving it. Does not like conflict and is most affected by it. Can build relationships, but maintaining them is harder still. Desires to have them. Most likely to use masking to appear more neurotypical or to fit in. More likely to care about the consequences of their actions. Both these types prefer to have the company of people close to them, are sensitive to betrayal/dishonor/abandonment, execute sameness/fairness. Are very dependent on others.

The defining trait of Fe is that it values social harmony. An Fe autist would not like conflict and might not handle it well at all depending on the situation. They might better read facial expressions and cues, but will still have difficulty with them. Most likely they may misinterpret situations, be intrusive, cross peoples' boundaries (entering personal space, asking personal questions, oversharing), have visibly affected communication (no "indoor" voice, interrupts, egocentric, takes things literally (esp. if Si), misinterprets), have difficulty expressing themselves or distinguishing their own feelings, may not see their own needs (this can lead to emotional disturbance), less likely than dominant thinker types to have a meltdown in public settings but nonetheless may react.

The defining trait of Fi is that it values inner harmony. There will be less of an importance placed on social values, but there is still a fear/hate of conflict. An Fi autist is more withdrawn and may prefer to observe people and social situations than participate in them. There is some ability to read social cues/expressions/tone, but not at the same level as Fe. Usually these things are missed. Fi is very egocentric, so they would do everything revolving around their needs and wants and place others as secondary, which can lead to misharmony. They'd recede deep into themselves to understand their emotions and try to make sense of them. May have trouble communicating their needs, to the point that they may go ignored or minimize them. 

If I were to say that people who have a mood disorder are heavily reliant on their feeling functions (regardless of type, even thinker) then I'm assuming it would be understood that in the case of ASD, people have a heavy reliance on their thinking functions (regardless of type, even feeler). Fe/Fi use their Ti/Te to rationalize emotions, relationships, social experiences, social situations, social rules, behavior, and conflict. This way it is easier for them to understand, interpret, emulate (copy), and predict all of these. This is also as a way to shield emotions. Te/Ti may also be used in the case of intellectual pursuits (the famous "special interests" of the autist they may or may not have). 

^I also have a strong 5 wing so what I'm saying might be from my POV.

When it comes to Intuition and Sensing, I feel that these are also imbalanced, but particularly the sensing functions are affected. In a nutshell: sensitive to physical sensations (touch, sound, sight, smell, taste), stimming/repetitive behavior, physical reactivity, uncontrolled facial expressions, disturbing feeling when looking someone in the eye, need to feel grounded, not liking change, prefer familiarity. Idk what to say about intuition.


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## Notus Asphodelus (Jan 20, 2015)

tinyheart said:


> 1. It's not.
> 
> 2. Or fear or discomfort or pain. Also physical sensation has more to do with what I imagine are the sensing functions, and since all types differ in the type of sensing and the level of which they need it... _*gasps*_ // All autistic people are, in some form, sensitive to their surroundings. When it comes to physical sensation (which I'd expand the definition to also include sound, taste, smell, sight) each individual will take it differently and require accommodation. When it comes to touch, depending on the individual, touching objects is preferable to touching people for the same reason we hate looking people in the eye or having to interact with them outside our comfort zone.
> 
> ...



Thanks for these answers.


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## brightflashes (Oct 27, 2015)

If anything, autism is Se PoLR. It's a disorder where mental processes are affected, especially processes that involve taking in information through the senses. idk why everyone thinks it's some sort of intellectual/social disturbance disorder. It's a developmental disorder, sure, but just because it appears a person has a lower mental capacity or a disinterest in socialising doesn't mean that they are autistic.


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## ReliK (Feb 24, 2019)

tinyheart said:


> When it comes to Intuition and Sensing, I feel that these are also imbalanced, but particularly the sensing functions are affected. In a nutshell: sensitive to physical sensations (touch, sound, sight, smell, taste), stimming/repetitive behavior, physical reactivity, uncontrolled facial expressions, disturbing feeling when looking someone in the eye, need to feel grounded, not liking change, prefer familiarity. Idk what to say about intuition.


Autists can be hypersensitive, hyposensitive and quite often a mix of the two, which I believe is important for people to be made aware of or reminded of, because it helps move us away from the idea that autism always shows up as sensory/people avoidance. I've observed children who are hyposensitive (they prefer fast and constant movement, struggle to sit still, enjoy licking and tasting things with little discretion or age-appropriate preference, wish to touch everything, enjoy deep pressure, tend to high pain tolerance) so they have a very strong need to take in excessive sensory data for there vestibular, intero and proprioceptive systems to more adequately recognize and integrate sensation. On the surface, this often looks like highly active, extroverted children who (at least when they are younger, and before they experience enough social confusion/rejection to psychologically create social anxiety/avoidance) can present as almost the opposite of what most people have in mind when they think of the Neurodiverse/Autism. One of my friends from HS (an ESFP) was incredibly social, popular, active, a 'cheerleader' and Student Body Officer, and she was later diagnosed with Asperger's in her 30's by Frazier Institute (meaning it was no phoney-baloney half-crocked assessment) considering they employ some of the most cutting-edge experts in the field who use brain-imaging, amongst other tools. It was the birth of her much more traditionally-expressing, Autistic son (because it's almost always inherited) which led to her own diagnosis. 

The sensory relationships, I feel, is directly related to Intuition. Hypersensitivity/Sensory avoidance probably sets the stage for one to focus more, thus develop intuitive preference, while Hyposensitive does the opposite (Sensory preference). 

I mentioned in another thread that, in brain-imaging studies, it was found that Autistic brains varied much more from each other than Neurotypicals do, from each other. We need to move past the idea that it manifests in these simple to identify ways, it does not.


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## tinyheart (Jun 17, 2016)

brightflashes said:


> If anything, autism is Se PoLR. It's a disorder where mental processes are affected, especially processes that involve taking in information through the senses. idk why everyone thinks it's some sort of intellectual/social disturbance disorder. It's a developmental disorder, sure, but just because it appears a person has a lower mental capacity or a disinterest in socialising doesn't mean that they are autistic.
> 
> @tinyheart
> 
> Autism isn't a mood disorder.


I didn't say it was. I said them as two separate disorders (mood is to feeling, ASD is to thinking). Read again.


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## tinyheart (Jun 17, 2016)

ultracrepidarian said:


> Autists can be hypersensitive, hyposensitive and quite often a mix of the two, which I believe is important for people to be made aware of or reminded of, because it helps move us away from the idea that autism always shows up as sensory/people avoidance. I've observed children who are hyposensitive (they prefer fast and constant movement, struggle to sit still, enjoy licking and tasting things with little discretion or age-appropriate preference, wish to touch everything, enjoy deep pressure, tend to high pain tolerance) so they have a very strong need to take in excessive sensory data for there vestibular, intero and proprioceptive systems to more adequately recognize and integrate sensation. On the surface, this often looks like highly active, extroverted children who (at least when they are younger, and before they experience enough social confusion/rejection to psychologically create social anxiety/avoidance) can present as almost the opposite of what most people have in mind when they think of the Neurodiverse/Autism. One of my friends from HS (an ESFP) was incredibly social, popular, active, a 'cheerleader' and Student Body Officer, and she was later diagnosed with Asperger's in her 30's by Frazier Institute (meaning it was no phoney-baloney half-crocked assessment) considering they employ some of the most cutting-edge experts in the field who use brain-imaging, amongst other tools. It was the birth of her much more traditionally-expressing, Autistic son (because it's almost always inherited) which led to her own diagnosis.
> 
> The sensory relationships, I feel, is directly related to Intuition. Hypersensitivity/Sensory avoidance probably sets the stage for one to focus more, thus develop intuitive preference, while Hyposensitive does the opposite (Sensory preference).
> 
> I mentioned in another thread that, in brain-imaging studies, it was found that Autistic brains varied much more from each other than Neurotypicals do, from each other. We need to move past the idea that it manifests in these simple to identify ways, it does not.


I kinda knew that but in my case it's hard to tell bc I also got ADHD and so a lot of the hyper and hypo sensitivities you speak of are related to that. I can't really tell with other people because I can't tell if it's just ADHD or something else. It's so common that it won't faze me if someone else shows ADHD behavior, and I just kinda assume it might be.

And yeah it terrifies me to have a kid with autism bc Idk how difficult it'd be to raise one (I'm not exactly the kind who knows how to care for others), and I'm always scared that if I were to have an autistic child or children that my spouse would blame, resent, or leave me. I've heard way too many times about people being dissatisfied with their autistic spouses or children, resenting them, or simply not understanding/wanting to involve themselves in that reality and would rather leave.

Btw did your friend have a brain scan? Like did she get a picture of it and all?


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## d e c a d e n t (Apr 21, 2013)

tinyheart said:


> I don't belong in the Socionics fandom but I am in the Autism fandom and if there's one thing I'd like to say is that no one type or function is representative of autistic persons or their traits. What Autism Spectrum Disorder and personality type have in common is that _they're both indiscriminate,_ meaning you can be born/develop into _any type_ and have autism/not have autism.


Autism... fandom. Of course that's a thing huh.


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## Engelsstaub (Apr 8, 2016)

Autism is complex and the explanation of it most likely falls beyond cognitive function model, although some symptoms can be interpreted using it.

- *lack of Fe*: many autists are completely unaware of social conventions and other people's feelings. I remember I watched an interview with an autistic woman and she told a story about having been given flowers. When it happened she replied with "Am I supposed to sleep with you now?" question. That's exactly what wou'd expect from a Fe-less person substituting thinking function for Fe.

- *lack of Ne*: some autists have trouble with abstract thinking. I remember reading about an autistic boy who couldn't learn his native Polish language because of its inflections. He just was unable to conceive of the fact that _drzewo, drzewa, drzew_ etc. are instances of the same word denoting the same thing. He learned English easily though and his mother has to communicate in English with him.

There are possibly other things which could be combined with other functions, but autism, as I mentioned, is complex, has many different cases, and manifests itself in so many ways that it's hard to imagine that 8 function model could be sufficient to explain it in a satisfactory way.


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## brightflashes (Oct 27, 2015)

tinyheart said:


> I didn't say it was. I said them as two separate disorders (mood is to feeling, ASD is to thinking). Read again.


I apologise, th. I was thinking last night - after I got off the Internet - that maybe I was wrong because I was like wait a minute, I don't think tinyheart has ever been factually wrong about Psychology. 

i've been a mess lately and you're right, I did just skim. I should have been more careful before I said anything. I'm going to go edit my post and take that crap out of it (if I still can).


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## Judson Joist (Oct 25, 2013)

Some folks nowadays tend to ascribe certain traits of the Melancholy temperament to "pop-culture" autism. "Autism" literally means "to be withdrawn into oneself." The Melancholy temperament has been recognized for far longer than autism has been a clinical diagnosis. It's only in recent years that the definition of autism has been expanded so now just about everyone is classified as being "on the spectrum."

*Note:* "Autist" isn't a real word. It's internet slang and isn't used in clinical nomenclature. Don't use it in the presence of a professional psychoanalyst if you want to be taken seriously.


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## angelfish (Feb 17, 2011)

Stephen Shore, an autistic academic, spoke a line that is now somewhat popular regarding people with autism: _If you've met one individual with autism, you've met *one* individual with autism._ I don't think it's useful or accurate to try to group autism into a single typology category, when there are so many disparate traits ranging from sensory input changes to communication differences - hence autism _spectrum_. That being said, I do believe there are strong correlations with certain types, especially IxTx.


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## Wisteria (Apr 2, 2015)

It's none of them. Don't link developmental disorders with socionics functions, that's just stupid.


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## Schizoid (Jan 31, 2015)

richard nixon said:


> is autism Fi-polr or Fe-polr?
> 
> i was thinking Fi-polr since most people with autism tend to like jokes and goof off more than most people without it and since people with autism are unyielding and domineering in relations and since every person with autism i knew was an SLE-Ti along with a few ILE-Ti. also, ENFp uses Fi, and they're the least detail oriented of all the types (people on the autism spectrum don't miss many details) and also have the most expansive affect of all the types.
> 
> although most people i've known on the autism spectrum always want to have a boyfriend or a girlfriend or a spouse, but i guess it's just due to a stronger than average need for good physical sensations rather than an emotional bond.



Going by your description, I'd be Fi-PoLR or Fe-PoLR then, given that I'm on the autism spectrum. ^_^ 

Seriously, if I have to describe the difference between Fi-PoLR vs Fe-PoLR, 

Fi PoLR hates being condemned about their moral system. If an Fi-PoLR did something immoral and you start lecturing them away about their actions, they will start getting offended. Fi-PoLR types are also bad at expressing their love. They may love someone deeply but they are literally incapable of saying the words "I love you" no matter how much they may love someone. 
So if you tell an Fi-PoLR type that they are incapable of loving anyone, this would really really offend them. 

Fe-PoLR hates it when people around them force them to display their emotions. If you tell an Fe-PoLR type to cry when they are sad and laugh when they are happy, this would really piss them off badly. Or if you're attending a wedding and then a Fe-PoLR type
came crashing into the wedding and started ranting away about how a burglar had broken into their home the previous night and the burglar had a gun with them and ended up killing their pet dog and how they wanted the burglar to pay for their evil deeds and blah and blah, and you started telling them, "Hey there is a wedding going on over there, stop talking about sad stuff over here,", this would again piss off the Fe-PoLR type.

As for autism, it has nothing to do with Fi-PoLR or Fe-PoLR, as autism is more about the inability to interpret social cues and the inability to pick up on hints from people.


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## tower (Nov 2, 2016)

At wrongplanet, MBTI type poll had INTJ leading by far before INTP (runner-up) and then a few other Ixxx types.

Loose correlations:

INTJ = LII
INTP = ILI

Mostly...


I personally correlate autistic things with one-dimensional Fe and/or one-dimensional Se but more with Fe problems than Se.

The love of rules and routine does point toward Ti lead as well. The sensory issues typically Si HA I guess.

But it could still be other types too, depending on which trait the person relates to if they are just on the spectrum and are not the entirely "classic" version of autism.


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## CosminFighter (Aug 21, 2021)

I'm autistic and I have Ne polr


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## Hachitarou (Aug 6, 2021)

richard nixon said:


> is autism Fi-polr or Fe-polr?
> 
> i was thinking Fi-polr since most people with autism tend to like jokes and goof off more than most people without it and since people with autism are unyielding and domineering in relations and since every person with autism i knew was an SLE-Ti along with a few ILE-Ti. also, ENFp uses Fi, and they're the least detail oriented of all the types (people on the autism spectrum don't miss many details) and also have the most expansive affect of all the types.
> 
> although most people i've known on the autism spectrum always want to have a boyfriend or a girlfriend or a spouse, but i guess it's just due to a stronger than average need for good physical sensations rather than an emotional bond.


Nope, none of them.


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## Hachitarou (Aug 6, 2021)

tower said:


> At wrongplanet, MBTI type poll had INTJ leading by far before INTP (runner-up) and then a few other Ixxx types.
> 
> Loose correlations:
> 
> ...


I'd adequately mention that the lack of Fe seems to be a clear ILI's matter in expressing themselves in dire circumstances according to the certain situation, but I could see that the lack of Si might influence this, in a way. I did make an approximated equation and I would rather say it's in between LIE/ILI/EIE/IEI, not necessarily true for LII since despite of their struggle towards the systematic approach of logical categorization, seems to be orientated towards the "discussion that doesn't remove towards reality", but I could see both LSI/LII possess certain traits of autism, not necessarily autism in general. Beta NF and Gamma NT are prone at being autistic, but overall, everyone might have autism.


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