# tablets



## ae1905

tablet sales have been in steady decline for several quarters and, in response, apple today announced some changes to its ipad lineup:



> macworld.com *Apple's new iPad lineup slashes prices, the iPad Air, and iPad mini storage options*
> 
> By Michael Simon Staff Writer, Macworld | Mar 21, 2017 7:00 AM PT
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Credit: Apple While we’re still waiting for a fresh iPad with barely-there bezels to make an appearance, Apple has returned to its roots with a new 9.7-inch model simply called iPad. And if you had previously balked at buying an iPad Air 2 because the price was too high, you might want to take notice.
> 
> Apple hasn’t technically added a new model to the iPad lineup, but it has bolstered the low end. Gone is the aging iPad Air 2 (as well as the whole Air branding), and in its place is a new model that looks exactly the same, with a 9.7-inch retina screen, Touch ID, 32GB or 128GB of storage, and the same color choices (silver, gold, and space gray). On the inside you’ll get an A9 chip—the same one that’s in the iPhone 6s—and the usual 10-hour battery. That’s a relatively small upgrade over the 8X chip that was in the iPad Air 2, but the difference here isn’t in performance, it’s in price.
> Apple has slashed the cost of the entry-level iPad from $399 to $329, the same price it once charged for the iPad mini. For $100 more, you can quadruple the storage to 128GB, and as always, cellular capability costs $130 more. Obviously, the new iPad doesn’t have any of the Pro’s features, like the Smart Connector or Apple Pencil support, but it’s definitely an attractive entry-level model.
> 
> As far as the iPad mini, the fourth generation of Apple’s 7.9-inch tablet is still hanging around, but it’s the only model that doesn’t start at 32GB of storage. Apple has axed the $269 iPad mini 2, and the mini 4 now comes with just one storage option, 128GB, for the same price of $399. That makes it slightly cheaper than a similarly spec’d iPad, but Apple is clearly pushing the larger tablet here, continuing a trend that started with the iPad Pro. The mini is still running the two-year-old A8 chip, and all signs appear to point to a phase-out of the smaller tablet within the next year or so.
> 
> So, Apple’s iPad lineup now looks like this: at the low end, there’s the 32GB $329 9.7-inch iPad, followed by the $399 128GB mini. Then there’s the $599 9.7-inch 32GB iPad Pro, and the $799 12.9-inch Pro with 32 GB of storage. That’s still a lot of options, but it’s much easier to digest than the previous lineup, and puts a clear delineation between the upper and lower models without sacrificing too much in the way of performance.
> 
> The new iPad will go on sale Friday, March 24 in the U.S. and more the 20 countries.


apparently, cutting the price of the ipad is apple's way to entice more buyers

do you own a tablet?...do you use it?...with phones becoming bigger and laptops lighter, do you think tablets have a future?...would you buy an ipad for $329?


----------



## BlackLikeMySoul

Clicked on this thread thinking it was about pills... I'm a little disappointed.


----------



## The red spirit

ae1905 said:


> do you own a tablet?...do you use it?...with phones becoming bigger and laptops lighter, do you think tablets have a future?...would you buy an ipad for $329?


Yes, I own 1st gen Nexus 7, it's total garbage and I don't use it. I had Galaxy tab 10.1 and liked it much better, but it lagged a lot. Also it was my first android device and my first computer.

Tablets, except windows tablets, have no future, they don't offer very good functionality and there are better products like laptops.

For 329 bucks I would buy used laptop instead of ipad.


----------



## master of time and space

Tablet? 
Aren’t they them completely useless fashion accessory, over priced, big phone thingamajigs


----------



## ae1905

master of time and space said:


> Tablet?
> Aren’t they them completely useless fashion accessory, over priced, big phone thingamajigs


I take it you don't own one?...apple has sold more than 300 million ipads since introducing them a few years ago...they own about a quarter of the tablet market, so another 900 million tablets made by other oems have probably also been sold...1.2 billion tablets is a lot, so they can't be that "useless" or "overpriced"...if anything, one reason sales have declined may be how useful they are as people continue using their old tablets rather than buying new ones...another reason, of course, is many people, like you, are using their tablet-like phones (phablets) and don't want or need another mobile device...that's why I asked if tablets have a future when they are being squeezed by phones on the small end and laptops on the big...I think they do...a tablet is still a better device for consuming media than a phone and it is still more portable and easier to use than a laptop...in fact, the small form factor and intuitive touch interface make tablets ideal computers for children and older people...for this reason alone I think tablets will continue to be sold


----------



## master of time and space

Well! 
That told me didn’t it. 
I love data and statistical evidence when it is used to force home a unsubstantiated point. So inhuman
I fucking Hate apple with a vengeance, paying people peanuts to work in inhuman environments to produce their bullshit closed source crap, 
Apple in particular are fashion accessories, Who on earth would line up for 12 hours just to buy the latest "I" thingamajig. Over priced for what they are, You buy one then spend another fortune loading those shit apps just to read a simple text document. 

So there!


----------



## The red spirit

ae1905 said:


> a tablet is still a better device for consuming media than a phone and it is still more portable and easier to use than a laptop...in fact


Have you heard something about ultrabooks or tablet-laptop hybrids? What is hard about using laptop? I find it hard to hold tablet for a longer time and don't reache everything with thumbs, while with laptop you have trackpad, which is pain in your ass, but it controls everything well. lenovo yoga can offer you both trackpad and touchscreen, technically it's hybrid, not a tablet and it's interesting device. Also there is MS surface and ... 

I find it harder to hold 500 gram with my hands, than to put 3kg on my laps. Ultrabooks weight less, so they are even more attractive. 7 inch tablets became useless, when phablet appeared, so I'm talking only about 10 inch tablets here.



ae1905 said:


> the small form factor and intuitive touch interface make tablets ideal computers for children and older people...for this reason alone I think tablets will continue to be sold


Why tablets are bad for children:
They are unpredictable and don't care about devices, they are very likely to drop it or do other type of damage. (Ok I don't know any other better device for them, I guess they should live some time without any device or with something old)

Why tablets are bad for elders:
Lots of elders wear glasses, so small screens aren't their frends. Many elders dislike learning anything new, so they automatically dislike tablets for that.


----------



## Hypaspist

Playing games is much easier on a tablet, so is viewing/editing media.

I have a Galaxy Tab S2 and absolutely love it. My phone's seen less and less use, and it's just down to a communication tool and camera when I don't have my regular camera on me. Also handy for time wasting when bored out of my mind away from home.

The reason Apple is aggressively pushing their iPad and iPhone products is that's the company they've become. Macs are essentially dead, the entire department seems to be folding. If the iPad and iPhone slump, so does Apple. My Macbook air is a tablet with a keyboard attached that isn't even capable of 1080p (2015 model).


----------



## The red spirit

Hypaspist said:


> Playing games is much easier on a tablet, so is viewing/editing media.


Android and iOS lack proper editing software




Hypaspist said:


> The reason Apple is aggressively pushing their iPad and iPhone products is that's the company they've become. Macs are essentially dead, the entire department seems to be folding. If the iPad and iPhone slump, so does Apple. My Macbook air is a tablet with a keyboard attached that isn't even capable of 1080p (2015 model).


Something is really wrong with your air. It shouldn't lag, while playing 1080p videos.


----------



## Riven

If they don't have styluses or at least USB OTG or Bluetooth keyboard and mouse support, in my eyes they seem kinda useless 

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk


----------



## Hypaspist

The red spirit said:


> Android and iOS lack proper editing software


I meant for mobile media. If the hardware could run it, I'd edit everything on Resolve or Premiere Pro.




> Something is really wrong with your air. It shouldn't lag, while playing 1080p videos.


The display itself isn't 1080p. I don't plan on sticking around in Appleland long enough to warrant an external display.


----------



## ae1905

The red spirit said:


> Have you heard something about ultrabooks or tablet-laptop hybrids? What is hard about using laptop?


* ultrabooks and 2-in-1s are still heavier, bulkier, and have keyboards that must be opened to use the devices
* keyboard input is not as direct or intuitive as touchscreen; even kids know how to touch; they don't, however, necessarily know how to spell and type
* apps are opened directly with a single touch; in comparison, a browser must be opened first before websites can be accessed
* compared to windows, mobile os apps can be downloaded from a single store; this also simplifies the updating software



> I find it hard to hold tablet for a longer time and don't reache everything with thumbs, while with laptop you have trackpad, which is pain in your ass, but it controls everything well. lenovo yoga can offer you both trackpad and touchscreen, technically it's hybrid, not a tablet and it's interesting device. Also there is MS surface and ... I find it harder to hold 500 gram with my hands, than to put 3kg on my laps. Ultrabooks weight less, so they are even more attractive.


you can rest the bottom edge of the tablet as you hold it, taking the weight off your hands...you can also buy a cover that lets you prop the tablet up as it sits on your lap (or any nearby surface)...a tablet is also far more portable; for example, you can use it as you walk, something you can't easily do with laptops...and it is easier to touch a screen while you lie on a couch or in bed than type on laptop



> Why tablets are bad for children:
> They are unpredictable and don't care about devices, they are very likely to drop it or do other type of damage. (Ok I don't know any other better device for them, I guess they should live some time without any device or with something old)


they can drop laptops, too...and laptops have hinges and screens that are far from kid-proof...and they are more expensive to replace

you can buy tablets aimed at kids that are built to take the abuse...you can also find accessories to protect tablets, like covers, guards, and screen shields



> Why tablets are bad for elders:
> Lots of elders wear glasses, so small screens aren't their frends. Many elders dislike learning anything new, so they automatically dislike tablets for that.


videos are easily viewed on 10" tablets, even for seniors...and text can be enlarged in a pinch

imo, the simplicity and ease of use of tablets make them the best computing option for seniors


----------



## ae1905

master of time and space said:


> Well!
> That told me didn’t it.
> I love data and statistical evidence when it is used to force home a unsubstantiated point.


https://www.statista.com/topics/841/tablets/



> So inhuman
> I fucking Hate apple with a vengeance, paying people peanuts to work in inhuman environments to produce their bullshit closed source crap,
> *Apple in particular are fashion accessories*, Who on earth would line up for 12 hours just to buy the latest "I" thingamajig. Over priced for what they are, You buy one then spend another fortune loading those shit apps just to read a simple text document.
> 
> So there!


true for the watch, maybe for the phone, too, but when is the last time you saw a model with a tablet?


----------



## The red spirit

ae1905 said:


> * ultrabooks and 2-in-1s are still heavier, bulkier, and have keyboards that must be opened to use the devices


As I said above, put it on your laps or table and you won't feel any weight. i see nothing wrong with physical keyboard, they are better, than virtual one (personal opinion).



ae1905 said:


> * keyboard input is not as direct or intuitive as touchscreen; even kids know how to touch; they don't, however, necessarily know how to spell and type


I played video games like UT2004 and GTA San Andreas with keyboard and mouse. I may not understand language, but I played succesfully and learned everything myself quite effortless. Later in my life I learned about letters and language. Even learned English from games, before school. Don't underestimate kid learning abilities, they can find out something fast if they want. Then again kids don't write with tablets either, so point is destroyed :kitteh:



ae1905 said:


> * apps are opened directly with a single touch; in comparison, a browser must be opened first before websites can be accessed


How this is different from computer? This is same task and same process needed to complete it.



ae1905 said:


> * compared to windows, mobile os apps can be downloaded from a single store; this also simplifies the updating software


,but windows have much better library of video games. Also playing FPS, action game or something like that is pain in your ass. Computer has mouse and keyboard, this combo is suerior to touchscreen. Well, if you aren't interested in those, then tablet is good alternative, but you will always feel limited by half-ass OS.




ae1905 said:


> you can rest the bottom edge of the tablet as you hold it, taking the weight off your hands...you can also buy a cover that lets you prop the tablet up as it sits on your lap (or any nearby surface)...a tablet is also far more portable; for example, you can use it as you walk, something you can't easily do with laptops...and it is easier to touch a screen while you lie on a couch or in bed than type on laptop


You can rest it, but tablet needs support then.
Buying cover is additional money spent, you don't want to pay for it. If you put it in cover, then touching screen is becoming uncomfortable as fuck.
You can use it as you walk, but all you had to do was to watch the damn road.

















Problem? (no weight to arms + comfortable and heated rest for them = win)





ae1905 said:


> they can drop laptops, too...and laptops have hinges and screens that are far from kid-proof...and they are more expensive to replace


I said, tha tthere is no better alternative also they don't need such things at all. Only if their parents are rich they can have it. Oh I remembered, that I played with my Nokia 3210, when I was 5 year old. It was strong brick and played symbian S30 java games. Also I used this thing to connect to net for the first time. Few megabytes of data were huge, oh those damn memories. Those bricks are actually quite good for kids and can play video games.



ae1905 said:


> you can buy tablets aimed at kids that are built to take the abuse...you can also find accessories to protect tablets, like covers, guards, and screen shields


They don't prevent unfortunate events, only reduce probability. Yet there is no alternative.





ae1905 said:


> videos are easily viewed on 10" tablets, even for seniors...and text can be enlarged in a pinch


Not everything can be enlarged in a pinch and 10 inches can't be compared to at least 13 or more.



ae1905 said:


> imo, the simplicity and ease of use of tablets make them the best computing option for seniors


maybe, but from my experience they find everything to be more difficult, than it actually is.


----------



## ae1905

The red spirit said:


> As I said above, put it on your laps or table and you won't feel any weight.


but sitting at a table isn't the only place I want to use a computer



> i see nothing wrong with physical keyboard, they are better, than virtual one (personal opinion).


they are...but you don't always need a keyboard 



> I played video games like UT2004 and GTA San Andreas with keyboard and mouse. I may not understand language, but I played succesfully and learned everything myself quite effortless. Later in my life I learned about letters and language. Even learned English from games, before school. Don't underestimate kid learning abilities, they can find out something fast if they want. Then again kids don't write with tablets either, so point is destroyed :kitteh:


yes, kids can learn to use desktops or laptops...but tablets are still easier to learn and use...in fact, they are so easy to use even cats can play with them:








> How this is different from computer? This is same task and same process needed to complete it.


no, it's not...when I want to use twitter I touch the "twitter" icon on my tablet and I'm in twitter...on my laptop, I have to open the laptop, open my browser, then open twitter and sign in--ie, it's not as fast or simple



> ,but windows have much better library of video games. Also playing FPS, action game or something like that is pain in your ass. Computer has mouse and keyboard, this combo is suerior to touchscreen. Well, if you aren't interested in those, then tablet is good alternative, but you will always feel limited by half-ass OS.


I don't play games and don't care, but there are a lot of games in apps stores, too...of course, tablets are not as powerful as high-end laptops and desktops so your choice of titles will be limited...but for young kids tablet games are probably more than good enough



> You can rest it, but tablet needs support then.


with a cover, it sits on a surface just like a laptop:











> Buying cover is additional money spent, you don't want to pay for it.


there are many inexpensive ones



> If you put it in cover, then touching screen is becoming uncomfortable as fuck.


huh?



> You can use it as you walk, but all you had to do was to watch the damn road.


it's no different than looking at your phone



> Problem? (no weight to arms + comfortable and heated rest for them = win)




that's sitting up in bed, not lying back like this:












> I said, tha tthere is no better alternative also they don't need such things at all. Only if their parents are rich they can have it. Oh I remembered, that I played with my Nokia 3210, when I was 5 year old. It was strong brick and played symbian S30 java games. Also I used this thing to connect to net for the first time. Few megabytes of data were huge, oh those damn memories. Those bricks are actually quite good for kids and can play video games.
> 
> They don't prevent unfortunate events, only reduce probability. Yet there is no alternative.


they're cheaper to replace



> Not everything can be enlarged in a pinch and 10 inches can't be compared to at least 13 or more.


apple's ipad pro is 12+ inches...a less expensive option is the lenovo yoga a12:

http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/tablets/lenovo/a-series/lenovo-a12/



> maybe, but from my experience they find everything to be more difficult, than it actually is.


if they can't figure out a tablet they probably won't be able to figure out a laptop, either


----------



## Grandmaster Yoda

The iPad 2 is still getting the same OS updates as the latest iPad. They have a much longevity than a phone that you might replace every 1-2 years because of your wireless plan. If you're a person who buys something and uses it sporadically, you probably aren't a person who upgrades their iPad. If I knew what on Earth happened to my original iPad, I would not have an iPad Air 2, of course that's a bad example because iPad 1 is now useless due to a lack of RAM.

I see children using tablets as toys and using them at school to do certain activities in the future. The problem with all of these things is they all try to achieve the same tasks. The iPad has very little software that can't also be downloaded on an iPhone. I think tablets are also good as point-of-sales systems to my understanding.

Overall, for what intersects between my iPad and my laptop, not playing flash videos or create an email server, the iPad is far more convenient. Windows is clunky, laptops have very short battery lives, amazingly short ones. If I want to go watch some YouTube on my iPad, it would probably last a while, laptops are a sham in every way.


----------



## The red spirit

ae1905 said:


> but sitting at a table isn't the only place I want to use a computer


I said *laps*



ae1905 said:


> they are...but you don't always need a keyboard


Just like not always you need touchscreen



ae1905 said:


> yes, kids can learn to use desktops or laptops...but tablets are still easier to learn and use...in fact, they are so easy to use even cats can play with them:


Lots of scratches though



ae1905 said:


> no, it's not...when I want to use twitter I touch the "twitter" icon on my tablet and I'm in twitter...on my laptop, I have to open the laptop, open my browser, then open twitter--ie, it's not as fast or simple


With lappy you get full version, with phone you get worse version most of the time. And with phone you still need to take it out of pocket, press button, unlock screen, turn on wifi or data connection, tap on twitter. It's just as bad as lappy and twitter is worse on it.



ae1905 said:


> I don't play games and don't care, but there are a lot of games in apps stores, too...of course, tablets are not as powerful as high-end laptops and desktops so your choice of titles will be limited...but for young kids tablet games are probably more than good enough


And you forgot to mention, that those app stores have shit ton of crappy, pay2play and retarded games. Rarely someone like EA make something for Android or iOS. Quality and quantity can't be compared to Windows ones.



ae1905 said:


> with a cover, it sits on a surface just like a laptop:


They don't stand so firmly as laptop, in my experience they are crap and ugly



ae1905 said:


> there are many inexpensive ones


They are badly made, cheap cases aren't good, except silicone ones.



ae1905 said:


> huh?











Not comfortable at all and add table to limit your movements or laps for even worse situation



ae1905 said:


> it's no different than looking at your phone


It's not good thing either. I have seen many stupid people to go into streets and be almost hit by car, they still don't give a fuck and keep looking at their phones.



ae1905 said:


> that's sitting up in bed, not lying back like this:


I just showed those pics to show the idea, you can lie in your bed with lappy, but sitting is preffered. Same applies to tablet.



ae1905 said:


> they're cheaper to replace


maybe



ae1905 said:


> apple's ipad pro is 12+ inches...a less expensive option is the lenovo yoga a12:
> 
> http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/tablets/lenovo/a-series/lenovo-a12/


They have almost no advantages compared to ultrabooks. Ultrabooks are seriously superior to those things.



ae1905 said:


> if they can't figure out a tablet they probably won't be able to figure out a laptop, either


They can't figure out technology well and it doesn't matter if it's tablet or PC. Yet tablets and PCs aren't difficult to use.


----------



## ae1905

The red spirit said:


> I said *laps*


you said "laps _or table_":



The red spirit said:


> As I said above, put it on your laps or table and you won't feel any weight.






> Just like not always you need touchscreen


most laptops don't have the option, but when you can use a touchscreen it eliminates the need for the keyboard



> Lots of scratches though


the point is the tablet is so easy and intuitive to use even cats can play with them...of course, you don't have to let your cat paw your tablet if that bothers you



> With lappy you get full version, with phone you get worse version most of the time. And with phone you still need to take it out of pocket, press button, unlock screen, turn on wifi or data connection, tap on twitter. It's just as bad as lappy and twitter is worse on it.


we're talking about a tablet, not a phone...all you have to do is pick up the tablet and open twitter; presto, you're in your account...on a laptop, you have to open the laptop, open your browser, surf to twitter, and enter your password...as for version, what can't I do on my tablet that I can on my laptop?



> And you forgot to mention, that those app stores have shit ton of crappy, pay2play and retarded games. Rarely someone like EA make something for Android or iOS. Quality and quantity can't be compared to Windows ones.


who says you have to download the crap?...just download the good games



> They don't stand so firmly as laptop, in my experience they are crap and ugly


how much experience do you have with tablet covers?...the cover on my tablet is svelte and stylish and it sits with no problems on my lap or any other surface I place it on



> They are badly made, cheap cases aren't good, except silicone ones.


you say this based on how much experience?



> Not comfortable at all and add table to limit your movements or laps for even worse situation


wtf?....how does a cover make a tablet "uncomfortable as fuck to touch"?!



> It's not good thing either. I have seen many stupid people to go into streets and be almost hit by car, they still don't give a fuck and keep looking at their phones.


it's a good thing if you use it right, as most people do...obviously the people you cite are doing it wrong



> I just showed those pics to show the idea, you can lie in your bed with lappy, but sitting is preffered. Same applies to tablet.


sitting is "preferred" with a laptop because you can't type lying down...but you _can easily _use a tablet in the supine position



> maybe


not maybe..._definitely_....the cheapest tablets are about $100...the cheapest laptops are about $200



> They have almost no advantages compared to ultrabooks. Ultrabooks are seriously superior to those things.


an ultrabook is at least 3 times more expensive than the yoga a12, which _has _a keyboard and is still thinner and lighter than any ultrabook



> They can't figure out technology well and it doesn't matter if it's tablet or PC. Yet tablets and PCs aren't difficult to use.


there are _millions _of older people who use tablets...this report is dated but gives you an idea:



> *Older People Are Buying A Lot Of iPads *
> 
> 
> Noah Davis
> 
> 
> 
> Aug. 25, 2011, 10:53 AM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The iPad is no longer a device for just young men, according to new data from Nielsen.
> 
> People over the age of 45 now account for 37% of the tablet, a.k.a. iPad, market according to Nielsen.
> 
> That's up from 23% of the market nine months ago.
> 
> The growth in ownership from older people took share away from people between the ages of 25 and 34.
> 
> In Q3 2010, they owned 23% of tablet devices versus just 13% in Q2 2011.
> The numbers indicate that tablets are moving past the early-adopter stage and into the mainstream.


I know a few of these people and they didn't have a difficult time learning


----------



## ae1905

pew research:



> *Among older adults, tablets and e-book readers are as popular as smartphones:* Among the general public, smartphones are much more common than either tablet computers or e-book readers, such as Kindles or Nooks. But tablets, e-book readers, and smartphones are each owned by an identical 18% of older adults. In fact, *the proportion of older adults who own either a tablet or an e-book reader is actually larger than the proportion owning a smartphone. Some 27% of seniors own a tablet, an e-book reader, or both, while 18% own a smartphone.*


----------



## The red spirit

ae1905 said:


> you said "laps _or table_":


You forgot laps anyway



ae1905 said:


> most laptops don't have the option, but when you can use a touchscreen it eliminates the need for the keyboard


Not really, let's say you have surface 3 and want to play minecraft



ae1905 said:


> the point is the tablet is so easy and intuitive to use even cats can play with them...of course, you don't have to let your cat paw your tablet if that bothers you


Well you are cat, so...



ae1905 said:


> we're talking about a tablet, not a phone...all you have to do is pick up the tablet and open twitter; presto, you're in your account...on a laptop, you have to open the laptop, open your browser, surf to twitter, and enter your password...as for version, what can't I do on my tablet that I can on my laptop?


What about password autofill?



ae1905 said:


> who says you have to download the crap?...just download the good games


Problem is that Android and iOS is filled with that and really good games are rare. That's a problem



ae1905 said:


> how much experience do you have with tablet covers?...the cover on my tablet is svelte and stylish and it sits with no problems on my lap or any other surface I place it on


Not much, but it was crappy experience. I have more experience in phone cases. Everything, that isn't silicone generally sucks. They are unrealible or poorly made or ugly or make things uncomfortable.



ae1905 said:


> you say this based on how much experience?


How it's even measured?



ae1905 said:


> wtf?....how does a cover make a tablet "uncomfortable as fuck to touch"?!


I said case, but wahtever. Imagine you fold it to stand on table and you have to touch tablet. You can touch everything fine (unless table reduce reachable space), but for how long? Not for long, because hands will become sore soon.



ae1905 said:


> it's a good thing if you use it right, as most people do...obviously the people you cite are doing it wrong


Either way they are walking zombies and annoy me as Se dom.



ae1905 said:


> sitting is "preferred" with a laptop because you can't type lying down...but you _can easily _use a tablet in the supine position


You can use laptop easely supine too. You have to bent your legs and open screen as fart as it goes and put it on bent legs. Voila!



ae1905 said:


> not maybe..._definitely_....the cheapest tablets are about $100...the cheapest laptops are about $200


And in the end they both suck for that price...



ae1905 said:


> an ultrabook is at least 3 times more expensive than the yoga a12, which _has _a keyboard and is still thinner and lighter than any ultrabook


Well yoga a12 is kinda Android ultrabook. Androids with keyboards aren't very good things, they are quite useless. I have tried that with Nexus 7 and I had mouse too. It was stupid idea.



ae1905 said:


> there are _millions _of older people who use tablets...this report is dated but gives you an idea:


not bad, didn't expect that



ae1905 said:


> I know a few of these people and they didn't have a difficult time learning


You are lucky

What is most important is that many major tablet manufacturers reduced model gamma. It's a fact, that tablets are losing popularity and manufacturers don't bring much inovation to sell them better.


----------



## ae1905

The red spirit said:


> Not really, let's say you have surface 3 and want to play minecraft


minecraft is in the apple apps and android play stores, right?...so most tablet users will be able to play it w/o a keyboard...windows tablets, otoh, are far less popular and I'm going to guess are used by people who also want to use windows productivity apps, like office...so these people will buy and have the keyboard to play minecraft...so your hypothetical is the rare exception to the rule



> Well you are cat, so...


so I should know what I'm talking about



> What about password autofill?


browser autofill is not secure



> Problem is that Android and iOS is filled with that and really good games are rare. That's a problem


you can get around that by sorting apps by their ratings and popularity



> Not much, but it was crappy experience. I have more experience in phone cases. Everything, that isn't silicone generally sucks. They are unrealible or poorly made or ugly or make things uncomfortable.


I've used four different cases, including a silicone, and they were all well-made and reliable and didn't look ugly...but the latter is my opinion



> I said case, but wahtever. Imagine you fold it to stand on table and you have to touch tablet. You can touch everything fine (unless table reduce reachable space), but for how long? Not for long, because hands will become sore soon.


why would your hands become tired?...you're not even typing, just reaching out to touch the screen



> Either way they are walking zombies and annoy me as Se dom.
> 
> You can use laptop easely supine too. You have to bent your legs and open screen as fart as it goes and put it on bent legs. Voila!


I've done this but the keyboard sits too far down to use the trackpad and keyboard comfortably...I have to slide the laptop a few inches up my leg and hold it there...as a bedside device, a tablet is easier to use



> And in the end they both suck for that price...


would you rather give a five year old a $1000 ultrabook?...cheap tablets are perfect for small children



> Well yoga a12 is kinda Android ultrabook. Androids with keyboards aren't very good things, they are quite useless. I have tried that with Nexus 7 and I had mouse too. It was stupid idea.


chromebooks can now use play store apps...the yoga a12 looks like it's been modified to resemble chromebooks, with the taskbar at the bottom...I think you'll see more convergence here and the android/chromebook laptop experience will improve



> not bad, didn't expect that
> 
> You are lucky


ios is the os for people who don't know (or care to know) much about computers....I think almost anyone can learn to use it



> What is most important is that many major tablet manufacturers reduced model gamma. It's a fact, that tablets are losing popularity and manufacturers don't bring much inovation to sell them better.


what do you mean by "model gamma"?...you mean "innovation"?...I think the innovation has been in the design of "convertible" and "2-in-1" laptops and big-screen smartphones that prove the popularity of the tablet form factor...basically, people liked their tablets so much they wanted their laptops and smartphones to look and work like them


----------



## HAL

When tablets can run proper resource-intensive desktop applications, have a HDMI output and at least two USB 3 plugs, I'll be slightly swayed.

For now, they're just big expensive screens for accessing the internet and writing documents with. I suppose they're fine if that's all you _ever_ want to do.

My laptop is huge (but still fits in a rucksack comfortably, just like a tablet needs if it's to be taken anywhere) and resource-intensive with a fan that roars when I really work it. I highly doubt a tablet will ever be able to do what my laptop can.


----------



## The red spirit

ae1905 said:


> minecraft is in the apple apps and android play stores, right?...so most tablet users will be able to play it w/o a keyboard...windows tablets, otoh, are far less popular and I'm going to guess are used by people who also want to use windows productivity apps, like office...so these people will buy and have the keyboard to play minecraft...so your hypothetical is the rare exception to the rule


I said Minecraft, not Minecraft PE. They are different things. Minecraft is full version.



ae1905 said:


> so I should know what I'm talking about


:kitteh:



ae1905 said:


> browser autofill is not secure


Most people don't care about security



ae1905 said:


> you can get around that by sorting apps by their ratings and popularity


Clash of clans is on top, but it's retarded game. Plus these can't sort out pay2plays.



ae1905 said:


> I've used four different cases, including a silicone, and they were all well-made and reliable and didn't look ugly...but the latter is my opinion


well ok



ae1905 said:


> why would your hands become tired?...you're not even typing, just reaching out to touch the screen


Holding arm straigth isn't comfortable at all and reduces pointing accuracy. In PE there is exercise to hold arm straigth for 1 minute and you can feel something already.



ae1905 said:


> I've done this but the keyboard sits too far down to use the trackpad and keyboard comfortably...I have to slide the laptop a few inches up my leg and hold it there...as a bedside device, a tablet is easier to use


Well, I found holding tablet worse, but it seems like personal choise



ae1905 said:


> would you rather give a five year old a $1000 ultrabook?...cheap tablets are perfect for small children


No. Not perfect, but ok.



ae1905 said:


> chromebooks can now use play store apps...the yoga a12 looks like it's been modified to resemble chromebooks, with the taskbar at the bottom


It's gimmicky device I would say. It should run Windows 10.



ae1905 said:


> ios is the os for people who don't know (or care to know) much about computers....I think almost anyone can learn to use it


It's not cheap at all, many people can't afford entry level iPads



ae1905 said:


> what do you mean by "model gamma"?...you mean "innovation"?...I think the innovation has been in the design of "convertible" and "2-in-1" laptops and big-screen smartphones that prove the popularity of the tablet form factor...basically, people liked their tablets so much they wanted their laptops and smartphones to look and work like them


Model gamma = model variety, I thought, that this word could mean same in English, turns out I was wrong. no, people didn't want laptops to work like tablets, plz remember Windows 8 disaster. At least manufacturers could make high end tablets again, now iPad and MS Surface dominates market.


----------



## The red spirit

HAL said:


> My laptop is huge (but still fits in a rucksack comfortably, just like a tablet needs if it's to be taken anywhere) and resource-intensive with a fan that roars when I really work it.


Fan shouldn't roar, maybe it's dying?


----------



## HAL

The red spirit said:


> Fan shouldn't roar, maybe it's dying?


Heh well it's a HP g6 (2399sa model) which is known for having an annoying fan problem. It's done it since the day I bought it. I even took it back and was given a replacement, and the problem is the same.

Anyway, my point was that tablets don't have fans. They simply don't have the capacity for dissipating the kind of heat that a proper motherboard and CPU would put out.


----------



## PowerShell

master of time and space said:


> I fucking Hate apple with a vengeance, paying people peanuts to work in inhuman environments to produce their bullshit closed source crap,
> Apple in particular are fashion accessories, Who on earth would line up for 12 hours just to buy the latest "I" thingamajig. Over priced for what they are, You buy one then spend another fortune loading those shit apps just to read a simple text document.
> 
> So there!


 Actually, their ecosystem is great. Everything works well together and it can save you a ton of time with stuff. Also, the administrative overhead is so much lower. I agree, people can take it overboard and Apple does become a lifestyle brand and people pursue the latest device without it adding value. 

I talk about this here:







The red spirit said:


> Have you heard something about ultrabooks or tablet-laptop hybrids? What is hard about using laptop? I find it hard to hold tablet for a longer time and don't reache everything with thumbs, while with laptop you have trackpad, which is pain in your ass, but it controls everything well. lenovo yoga can offer you both trackpad and touchscreen, technically it's hybrid, not a tablet and it's interesting device. Also there is MS surface and ...


Surfaces work great in an enterprise environment. We have deployed 200+ of them to our mobile workforce (compliance people and law enforcement agents). For a corporate environment, it's really the best of both worlds because you can manage it via Active Directory and apply Group Policy to it.


----------



## ae1905

The red spirit said:


> Holding arm straigth isn't comfortable at all and reduces pointing accuracy. In PE there is exercise to hold arm straigth for 1 minute and you can feel something already.


it's sitting on a surface, like your lap



> It's not cheap at all, many people can't afford entry level iPads


an ipad costs about as much as a cheap laptop, especially now that the price has been cut...and there are even cheaper android and amazon tablets



> Model gamma = model variety, I thought, that this word could mean same in English, turns out I was wrong. no, people didn't want laptops to work like tablets, plz remember Windows 8 disaster. At least manufacturers could make high end tablets again, now iPad and MS Surface dominates market.


the objection to windows 8 was not that you could use a laptop like a tablet but that you couldn't use a laptop like a desktop...windows 10 solves this problem by giving users their desktop gui back...at the same time, it retains the option to switch to a tablet/touchscreen mode which is especially useful in the many convertibles that let you use a laptop like a tablet

if you count the many convertible laptops and big-screen phones that have been sold I wager to say they would outnumber the decline in tablet sales--ie, the tablet form factor and use case have actually _gained _in popularity despite declining sales of tablets themselves


----------



## The red spirit

ae1905 said:


> it's sitting on a surface, like your lap


Surface limits hand postures, making it uncomfortable to use



ae1905 said:


> an ipad costs about as much as a cheap laptop, especially now that the price has been cut...and there are even cheaper android and amazon tablets


Amazon tablets are rare. Lots of people view it as high ammount of money, it's not USA everywhere.



ae1905 said:


> the objection to windows 8 was not that you could use a laptop like a tablet but that you couldn't use a laptop like a desktop...windows 10 solves this problem by giving users their desktop gui back...at the same time, it retains the option to switch to a tablet/touchscreen mode which is especially useful in the many convertibles that let you use a laptop like a tablet
> 
> if you count the many convertible laptops and big-screen phones that have been sold I wager to say they would outnumber the decline in tablet sales--ie, the tablet form factor and use case have actually _gained _in popularity despite declining sales of tablets themselves


well ok

Discussing with you is exhausting


----------



## nO_d3N1AL

I have a Windows tablet but I rarely use it. I'm always using my desktop PC or phone. The only point in the tablet compared to phone is the ability to do actual computing on it - and this is only possible because it runs Windows rather than some cut-down mobile OS like Android or iOS.


----------



## PowerShell

nO_d3N1AL said:


> I have a Windows tablet but I rarely use it. I'm always using my desktop PC or phone. The only point in the tablet compared to phone is the ability to do actual computing on it - and this is only possible because it runs Windows rather than some cut-down mobile OS like Android or iOS.


Tablets, for the most part, are for content consumers and not content producers.


----------



## VinnieBob

The red spirit said:


> Yes, I own 1st gen Nexus 7, it's total garbage and I don't use it. I had Galaxy tab 10.1 and liked it much better, but it lagged a lot. Also it was my first android device and my first computer.
> 
> Tablets, except windows tablets, have no future, they don't offer very good functionality and there are better products like laptops.
> 
> For 329 bucks I would buy used laptop instead of ipad.


i noticed in my area i see more people in public with laptops v tablets
i have my iPhone and laptop which suits me fine


----------



## zynthaxx

ae1905 said:


> tablet sales have been in steady decline for several quarters and, in response, apple today announced some changes to its ipad lineup:
> 
> apparently, cutting the price of the ipad is apple's way to entice more buyers
> 
> do you own a tablet?...do you use it?...with phones becoming bigger and laptops lighter, do you think tablets have a future?...would you buy an ipad for $329?


The problem for Apple has been twofold:
1) Phones have become larger and support higher resolutions, so people with OK eyesight have less of a reason to use a tablet now than when the iPad was originally introduced.
2) Premium tablets have long been "fast enough" and been built with sufficiently high quality not to motivate people to upgrade to the latest and fastest at the price demanded.

So yes, with a significantly cheaper iPad, they will reach a lot of the people who've been holding back in the choice between a $400(+) iPad Air 2 and a $600(+) iPad Pro 9.7" (the numbers were pulled out of my ass and may differ from real prices).


Do I own a tablet? Yes, and a desktop computer, and a laptop. They all fill different needs. I don't bring my Linux workstation to work. I don't sit in front of the TV or lie in my bed with my laptop. I don't (regularly) manage hundreds of servers using my iPad even if I could in a pinch.

Would I buy the new iPad? For me it would be a downgrade. The 9.7" iPad Pro with Smart Keyboard fills a concrete niche for me between a keyboard-less tablet and an ultraportable laptop. For real work, I need a proper laptop with some horsepower. For making (long) notes while otherwise idling, the Smart Keyboard is fantastic but still can be folded away into a media consumption form factor not much worse than that of my original iPad2.

Would my father or my in-laws buy a $329 iPad? Definitely, and it would cover their entire computer requirements with pretty much zero support needs.


----------



## hexmeister

I am totally integrated into Apple's ecosystem. 2012 13'' MacBook pro, iPhone 6s Plus, and an iPad pro. The computer was a gift, the phone was a discount buy, and the iPad was a super cheap eBay bargain.

I love the operating systems. I've always had a Windows desktop for heavy gaming, but for actual "work" I've always used Mac OS. My work needs are pretty basic, like note taking, Microsoft Office, email, etc. Does the iPad Pro replace my laptop as Apple claimed?
No.

The iPad pro is still a mobile operating system. Is it an exquisite companion item to a laptop/desktop? Yes. iPads are very stable, mine is super quick and the battery life is amazing. Writing and drawing with the Apple pencil in various note taking apps is flawless. And that's fine, I think tablets _should_ be supplemental devices, with an emphasis on high-touchscreen efficiency regarding the UI and superb battery life. But is it worth the full retail price Apple charges? I wouldn't have bought it. Especially when the Apple Pencil and Keyboard Cover are separate accessories at $100+.

I do love Apple. And yes I have recently tried the competition and was not happy with it. Having said that, Apple does need to be vigilant and embrace the tides of change. They're getting complacent with their software and hardware. Especially now Microsoft has jumped into the game with their Surface products.


----------



## ferroequinologist

Apple's new iPad is a response to the inroads that ChromeOS is making in education. However, it's probably too little, too late. 

I've been a long-time Apple user (like since 1987, and owned Macs since 1993). I have owned non-Apple branded computers in the past, but on every one of them, I either hacked them into a Hackintosh, or dropped some form of Linux on them (Puppy is my personal favorite, with Ubuntu a close second). I've been a Microsoft hater since DOS 5 scrambled my hard drive in 1992, and Windows 3. 

I say all that as background to say that this past fall, I bought a Surface Pro 4. Why??? Well, because I want a tablet for some things. Before that, I had a Nexux 7 (2013, 2nd gen). My wife and daughter have iPads, but I couldn't justify the expense of one for myself, so I thought I'd try a Nexus. From that I learned that tablet operating systems are too limited, and to make them more useful, you turn them into bulky laptops, but still the OS just isn't the best for my kind of work. Since I use Keynote (now Powerpoint) and rather unusual software as well as Adobe's Creative Cloud suite, I really need a full-on desktop environment. But I like the tablet form for when I'm not hard at work. In the end, when Apple updated their line this past year with a.... a what??? a touch bar???? What was that??? Yeah, I decided to try the Surface. I've been mostly satisfied with it. I still find much to hate about Windows (fonts on Windows, file management, how it handles graphics and multiple monitors, the mouse and trackpad drivers stink, and I could go on), I find it usable, and in some minor areas (like connecting to ftp servers via File Explorer works better than the Finder on the Mac). 

But here was what made me decide to try the Surface. Having a tablet interface or touch interface is nice... sometimes... But I would rather have everything under the hood at all times, with the tablet for when I want it. My preference, if I have to balance them all, is to lean heavily toward the desktop experience, with lots of compromises on the tablet side. iOS and Android are the opposite. They are fantastic touch experiences, but really rotten when it comes to desktop and serious work. (outright useless in my situation) 

I've considered hacking MacOS onto my Surface, but then I'd lose all the Surface Pen tools and finesse. I like those, and use them, so no... I'll just have to learn to live without Nisus and Keynote (my two big losses). 

Here's my guess as far as Apple is concerned. They have three choices. Either continue as they are... and slowly become irrelevant, or adapt MacOS to touch, or move iOS to desktop capabilities. My bet is on the last one being the route they take. But if ever they start putting ARM chips into Macs, then they are probably going to go the middle route... But honestly, nobody (and probably not even Apple) knows what they will do. Right now, however, Microsoft has several years on them, so whatever they do, they will have to go all-in and quickly. But they've already done several architectural paradigm shifts in their history. If any company is capable of pulling it off, it's Apple. I still hope to move back to Apple, but seriously, they need a touchscreen on their Macs (not a touch bar).


----------



## The red spirit

ferroequinologist said:


> Apple's new iPad is a response to the inroads that ChromeOS is making in education. However, it's probably too little, too late.


Chrome OS is piece of shit. It just doesn't do anything good. Android or linux are better alternatives. They charge full price of entry level laptop for some castrated OS, that lacks software. 



ferroequinologist said:


> I've been a long-time Apple user (like since 1987, and owned Macs since 1993). I have owned non-Apple branded computers in the past, but on every one of them, I either hacked them into a Hackintosh, or dropped some form of Linux on them (Puppy is my personal favorite, with Ubuntu a close second). I've been a Microsoft hater since DOS 5 scrambled my hard drive in 1992, and Windows 3.


And this is me, who failed to convert my AMD FX pc to Hackintosh, well I lacked kexts. It booted Mac OS once, but never ran it again. It was beautiful, but seemed so damn empty. It was Maverick version. You probably hackintoshed Intel PC, because they are much easier to hack.




ferroequinologist said:


> I say all that as background to say that this past fall, I bought a Surface Pro 4. Why??? Well, because I want a tablet for some things. Before that, I had a Nexux 7 (2013, 2nd gen). My wife and daughter have iPads, but I couldn't justify the expense of one for myself, so I thought I'd try a Nexus. From that I learned that tablet operating systems are too limited, and to make them more useful, you turn them into bulky laptops, but still the OS just isn't the best for my kind of work. Since I use Keynote (now Powerpoint) and rather unusual software as well as Adobe's Creative Cloud suite, I really need a full-on desktop environment. But I like the tablet form for when I'm not hard at work. In the end, when Apple updated their line this past year with a.... a what??? a touch bar???? What was that??? Yeah, I decided to try the Surface. I've been mostly satisfied with it. I still find much to hate about Windows (fonts on Windows, file management, how it handles graphics and multiple monitors, the mouse and trackpad drivers stink, and I could go on), I find it usable, and in some minor areas (like connecting to ftp servers via File Explorer works better than the Finder on the Mac).


Could you compare Android to iOS? did you root it? overclock it? installed custom rom? plz tell me everything, even issues of Nexus are interesting to me. I expect that you like iOS more, but whatever, I'm here not for fanboyism, just for observations.

I personally like Android more, it's more functional and is more open. iOS is beautiful, but useless and iadore their update ecosystem (iPad 2 is still updated), but it cannot fight with Android. Android has root, custom roms, other developer shit, let's you edit filesystem more, lets you customize more, gives you freedom and generaly is more practical. If you dislike android, then you can install linux, but I strongly don't recomment it. I tried that on my Nexus 7 and it was painfully slow. iOS is closed, doesn't have good enought functionality and doesn't give any freedom and no pirated apps. 




ferroequinologist said:


> I've considered hacking MacOS onto my Surface, but then I'd lose all the Surface Pen tools and finesse. I like those, and use them, so no... I'll just have to learn to live without Nisus and Keynote (my two big losses).


, but Mac OS doesn't support touchscreens. Good that you didn't do that.




ferroequinologist said:


> Here's my guess as far as Apple is concerned. They have three choices. Either continue as they are... and slowly become irrelevant, or adapt MacOS to touch, or move iOS to desktop capabilities. My bet is on the last one being the route they take. But if ever they start putting ARM chips into Macs, then they are probably going to go the middle route... But honestly, nobody (and probably not even Apple) knows what they will do. Right now, however, Microsoft has several years on them, so whatever they do, they will have to go all-in and quickly. But they've already done several architectural paradigm shifts in their history. If any company is capable of pulling it off, it's Apple. I still hope to move back to Apple, but seriously, they need a touchscreen on their Macs (not a touch bar).


Apple just needs to reduce prices and make higher quality products (overheating issues lately in high end Macs). That would be enough for them to attract customers. Touchscreen on laptop would be quite useless, while on iMac it's maybe a good thing (look what MS released, the Surface Studio and it looks like good and innovative product), but I don't think that it could be game changer.


----------



## ferroequinologist

The red spirit said:


> Chrome OS is piece of shit. It just doesn't do anything good. Android or linux are better alternatives. They charge full price of entry level laptop for some castrated OS, that lacks software.


I'm not making value judgments regarding ChromeOS, but it is making huge inroads into schools over Apple iPads, which used to be the darling in US schools, at least. Hence the low-price iPad. That's my only comment regarding this. Although, I can add that ChromeOS is gaining Android apps, so the lack of software situation is changing...




> And this is me, who failed to convert my AMD FX pc to Hackintosh, well I lacked kexts. It booted Mac OS once, but never ran it again. It was beautiful, but seemed so damn empty. It was Maverick version. You probably hackintoshed Intel PC, because they are much easier to hack.


Of course. Actually, they were netbooks--Asus and MSI. I bought both because they were supposed to be highly compatible with Hackintosh, and they mostly were. Both are still down in my garage, and both have the OS still installed. ;-) Oh, and one has MacOS and Fedora installed, as well as Windows.



> Could you compare Android to iOS? did you root it? overclock it? installed custom rom? plz tell me everything, even issues of Nexus are interesting to me. I expect that you like iOS more, but whatever, I'm here not for fanboyism, just for observations.


Jailbreaking the iPhone was easier back in the day, but I've unlocked the bootloader on my Nexus, and installed Ubuntu Touch on it. It was easy enough, when you have a friend helping who's done it before. ;-) But honestly, I find Android much more complex than jailbreaking my iPhone was. I have played more since, but in the end.... I'd rather just have the stock operating systems. My Android phones have been Moto X phones, which have cool features I'm not keen to lose. So I leave them be. The tablet has been abandoned since I got my Surface. Worse, its touch screen sometimes stops working, and to get it working again, you have to squeeze the back panel. I did that and cracked the screen inside, with bleeding, etc. bummer. I still have it for playing music in our living room...



> I personally like Android more, it's more functional and is more open. iOS is beautiful, but useless and iadore their update ecosystem (iPad 2 is still updated), but it cannot fight with Android. Android has root, custom roms, other developer shit, let's you edit filesystem more, lets you customize more, gives you freedom and generaly is more practical. If you dislike android, then you can install linux, but I strongly don't recomment it. I tried that on my Nexus 7 and it was painfully slow. iOS is closed, doesn't have good enought functionality and doesn't give any freedom and no pirated apps.


Android is more customizable, and the notifications system is better, but honestly, the app ecosystem and the quality of the apps is higher on iOS. Also, iPhones and iPads age very well. I have an ancient iPhone 4 that I still have everything installed on, and it runs like a dream all these years later. My Moto X first gen barely lasted a year before it began to have problems--slowdowns, hangs, sudden reboots, overall sluggishness. And now my second one has started. Android is not, IMO, as robust, long-term, and the phones certainly aren't. Also, back in the day, having everything Apple was very convenient. And privacy and security are much better on Apple gear. Sometimes, those two issues alone almost tempt me back...





> Apple just needs to reduce prices and make higher quality products (overheating issues lately in high end Macs). That would be enough for them to attract customers. Touchscreen on laptop would be quite useless, while on iMac it's maybe a good thing (look what MS released, the Surface Studio and it looks like good and innovative product), but I don't think that it could be game changer.


I find touchscreen to be something sorely lacking now. It only took me weeks to start wanting it on every computer screen. Sometimes things aren't game changers so much as simple enablers. Sure, I would never want to give up my track pad or mouse, but having the screen directly manipulable when I want it is a little, but very useful thing. Get used to it, and you don't want to go back.

As to quality. My only experience with Apple has been that their products are of the highest quality. The latest issues are probably more software than anything else. And Apple's usually good at fixing these thing... oh, that...

Software on Apple products... If you like using always the latest and greatest updates, then forget Android (unless you go Pixel or Nexus--but then, these days, you pay the same as for Apple), and Windows isn't much better, depending on the company making the hardware, and the quality of the hardware. My 7 yr old MacBook Pro is running the latest MacOS system. And with an SSD inside, it's snappy--sort of.... But it is limited RAM wise, and also I've killed the USB ports on it, as well as the battery, so had to move on. It's still plugged in and running, serving files, etc. 

And I like my Surface.


----------



## The red spirit

ferroequinologist said:


> I'm not making value judgments regarding ChromeOS, but it is making huge inroads into schools over Apple iPads, which used to be the darling in US schools, at least. Hence the low-price iPad. That's my only comment regarding this. Although, I can add that ChromeOS is gaining Android apps, so the lack of software situation is changing...


... and Android lacks full version of MS office, which is one of the most important productivity software. ChromeOS shouldn't exist at all. 



ferroequinologist said:


> Of course. Actually, they were netbooks--Asus and MSI. I bought both because they were supposed to be highly compatible with Hackintosh, and they mostly were. Both are still down in my garage, and both have the OS still installed. ;-) Oh, and one has MacOS and Fedora installed, as well as Windows.


Triplebooting, huh? I tried that, but it was annoying to select OS everytime I turned on PC.




ferroequinologist said:


> Jailbreaking the iPhone was easier back in the day, but I've unlocked the bootloader on my Nexus, and installed Ubuntu Touch on it. It was easy enough, when you have a friend helping who's done it before. ;-) But honestly, I find Android much more complex than jailbreaking my iPhone was. I have played more since, but in the end.... I'd rather just have the stock operating systems. My Android phones have been Moto X phones, which have cool features I'm not keen to lose. So I leave them be. The tablet has been abandoned since I got my Surface. Worse, its touch screen sometimes stops working, and to get it working again, you have to squeeze the back panel. I did that and cracked the screen inside, with bleeding, etc. bummer. I still have it for playing music in our living room...


I have bricked my Galaxy Ace 2 many times and always managed to fix it. Same happened to Nexus 7. It's rare that custom rom work well. My favourite roms for Ace 2 were Cyanogenmod (for stability) and MIUI (it's so damn beautiful, but eats ram too much). I had to research quite a lot to do all that stuff, but it's learnable and not very hardly. I would find Jailbreaking harder and bit more useless on iPhone or iPad.

Moto X has stock android version, it's nothing special, it's just clean, so I don't know about what exclusive features you was talking about. From reading reviews and having some experience with Nexuses I can say that they aren't quality etalons. They often have problems and I wouldn't choose them if that was my priority number 1. My Nexus had these issues: overheating (RMA doesn't fix that), color wash out (my guess it's something software related), super slow charging and doesn't charge when being used, screen lift off (manufacturing defect), lag, fast battery drain when not used.




ferroequinologist said:


> Android is more customizable, and the notifications system is better, but honestly, the app ecosystem and the quality of the apps is higher on iOS. Also, iPhones and iPads age very well. I have an ancient iPhone 4 that I still have everything installed on, and it runs like a dream all these years later. My Moto X first gen barely lasted a year before it began to have problems--slowdowns, hangs, sudden reboots, overall sluggishness. And now my second one has started. Android is not, IMO, as robust, long-term, and the phones certainly aren't. Also, back in the day, having everything Apple was very convenient. And privacy and security are much better on Apple gear. Sometimes, those two issues alone almost tempt me back...


Android trully isn't, but there's something wrong with that Moto X, it shouldn't do all that stuff. I have galaxy Note 3 neo for 2 years and I can only like this phone, though it wasn't very fast when it was released. It still doesn't lag, does everything well and it's the best android I have ever had. Quality of it is felt everywhere, Sammy did really great job with this one, but it never became popular phone. Only one thing I can say bad about it is that data connection is pretty weak and unreliable in buildings. i have my Glaxy Ace 2 from 2012. It still runs ancient android gingerbread (2.3, but it's upgradable to very crappy 4.1.2, due to Samsung's horrible optimisation). It still works and runs, but lags. Many apps are still supported and that's amazing. That phone eat iPhone 4 in that era, but I can agree that iPhone 4 aged well, even with only single core cpu (sounds horrible, but thank god irl it isn't that bad). BTW I don't really think, that someone actually cares about privacy and security of phones and if they do, then custom roms are way to go (there was one developed for those purposes and for special phone of course).





ferroequinologist said:


> I find touchscreen to be something sorely lacking now. It only took me weeks to start wanting it on every computer screen. Sometimes things aren't game changers so much as simple enablers. Sure, I would never want to give up my track pad or mouse, but having the screen directly manipulable when I want it is a little, but very useful thing. Get used to it, and you don't want to go back.


I don't really find them being in that way. I much more love LG TV's magic remote, one of the most innovative TV remotes in the world and it's truly awesome, even if it's quite old now. There are even some video games for that TV.



ferroequinologist said:


> As to quality. My only experience with Apple has been that their products are of the highest quality. The latest issues are probably more software than anything else. And Apple's usually good at fixing these thing... oh, that...


Watch some benchmark videos. Their high end Macs tend to overheat and their small ARM Macbook. lately it has been on almost every product. Also fixability of Macs is horrible and I'm not even talking about upgradability.



ferroequinologist said:


> Software on Apple products... If you like using always the latest and greatest updates, then forget Android (unless you go Pixel or Nexus--but then, these days, you pay the same as for Apple), and Windows isn't much better, depending on the company making the hardware, and the quality of the hardware. My 7 yr old MacBook Pro is running the latest MacOS system. And with an SSD inside, it's snappy--sort of.... But it is limited RAM wise, and also I've killed the USB ports on it, as well as the battery, so had to move on. It's still plugged in and running, serving files, etc.


I don't understand compariso here. Are you comparing mobile OS to desktop OS? If yes then you definitely shouldn't do that.



ferroequinologist said:


> And I like my Surface.


Cool, just don't become too much of Apple fanboy or Windows fanboy.


----------



## ae1905




----------



## brightflashes

I tried reading this whole thread, but it seemed pretty scattered to me and looked like a lot of people criticizing other people's personal tastes. I'll answer the questions, but if anyone wants to challenge my decisions, just know I know what works for me and that's the way it goes. 

I read a ridiculously large amount of books. I don't socialize very much at all. I was gifted a Kindle shortly after it came out. It made reading easier, saved some trees, and was a practical way to store my books. From then on, I got a newer edition kindle every two years. At the same time, I used my computer/laptop for my primary way of accessing the Internet and only used my phone for rare phone calls and texts. 

I currently have a Fire tablet that streams from netflix, amazon prime, and HBO, etc... Additionally, I read on it with options of searching the book, looking up definitions of words as I read, using note taking, and having the option to turn the blue light off so it doesn't keep me up at night. Also, I have my favorite puzzle games on it which allows me to relax. I love my Fire tablet and this is the year that I'll be replacing it with a newer version. 

I only got a smartphone for the first time in either the end of January or the beginning of February of this year because the plan I was on was no longer available. I use my phone even less now than I did before because it's complicated and it irritates me to use it. It's not like I am incapable of learning it or that I'm somehow technically disinclined. It's just that I don't have much motivation to use it to its full capacity since my Fire tablet does everything that I want my phone to do except it doesn't interrupt me with phone calls or texts which honestly annoys me. I still use my laptop(s) for browsing the Internet, but I am probably on my Fire tablet more than any other device. 

I would not buy an Ipad for the quoted price because I can get a Fire tablet for less and I've grown to like their interface better.


----------



## ae1905

*New Microsoft Patent Allegedly Shows Foldable Surface Phone Handset*

hardocp.com 

Posted by Megalith 1:40 PM (CST)

*New Microsoft Patent Allegedly Shows Foldable Surface Phone Handset*

If this patent is truly Surface Phone related, then Microsoft’s plans for the flagship device should be on par with what Samsung and LG is cooking up for future devices. I do think a foldable screen is the next big thing for phones, as it seems like a great way to have a larger display while keeping the dimensions similar. 

This past week, Microsoft received a new patent for a foldable handset, and once again there are rumors that it is related to the long awaited, mythical Surface Phone. A foldable Surface Phone would face some stiff competition from Samsung and LG. The latest rumor has Samsung ready to release thousands of prototypes to carriers and retailers during the third quarter of this year, which incidentally is when the next batch of Apple iPhone units might be released. The foldable Samsung model would be an ultra-luxury device according to those in the know.​Discussion


----------



## zynthaxx

ae1905 said:


> hardocp.com
> 
> Posted by Megalith 1:40 PM (CST)
> 
> *New Microsoft Patent Allegedly Shows Foldable Surface Phone Handset*
> 
> If this patent is truly Surface Phone related, then Microsoft’s plans for the flagship device should be on par with what Samsung and LG is cooking up for future devices. I do think a foldable screen is the next big thing for phones, as it seems like a great way to have a larger display while keeping the dimensions similar.
> This past week, Microsoft received a new patent for a foldable handset, and once again there are rumors that it is related to the long awaited, mythical Surface Phone. A foldable Surface Phone would face some stiff competition from Samsung and LG. The latest rumor has Samsung ready to release thousands of prototypes to carriers and retailers during the third quarter of this year, which incidentally is when the next batch of Apple iPhone units might be released. The foldable Samsung model would be an ultra-luxury device according to those in the know.​Discussion


I predict an _n_th Microsoft phone failure unless it runs Android or iOS.


----------



## The red spirit

zynthaxx said:


> I predict an _n_th Microsoft phone failure unless it runs Android or iOS.


I would imagine comfortable usage of folding device that runs Android. Android is fine with non foldable devices. Anyway, I don't understan why we would need foldable devices, except those on wrists, they don't really feel like they could be good solution to use them comfortably for long time. Reminds me smartwatches. Cool and interesting concept, but practically not usable for prolonged tasks.


----------



## zynthaxx

The red spirit said:


> I would imagine comfortable usage of folding device that runs Android. Android is fine with non foldable devices. Anyway, I don't understan why we would need foldable devices, except those on wrists, they don't really feel like they could be good solution to use them comfortably for long time. Reminds me smartwatches. Cool and interesting concept, but practically not usable for prolonged tasks.


People always believe they want a compromise solution: The best of this, mixed with the best of that. What they usually get (unless they're absolutely great at specifying what they actually need) is the worst of both. It takes some insight to realize this.


----------



## ae1905

zynthaxx said:


> I predict an _n_th Microsoft phone failure unless it runs Android or iOS.


windows is still the most popular productivity platform...if ms can fold the phone function into the same device that people already use for work, I would bet it would succeed since it would eliminate the need for an extra gadget


----------



## zynthaxx

ae1905 said:


> windows is still the most popular productivity platform...if ms can fold the phone function into the same device that people already use for work, I would bet it would succeed since it would eliminate the need for an extra gadget


Possibly, if they manage not to make it awkward. See my previous post on compromise solutions.


----------



## PowerShell

ae1905 said:


> windows is still the most popular productivity platform...if ms can fold the phone function into the same device that people already use for work, I would bet it would succeed since it would eliminate the need for an extra gadget


I can't wait for the day I can dock my cell phone and have a full desktop on a monitor. I know it's been tried in the past but it wasn't successful. What's the point of having multiple devices when a phone has enough computing power for most things.


----------



## Arzazar Szubrasznikarazar

Tablet screens look horrible with glare and stuff. Why can't they be like monitor screens - matt?


----------



## ae1905

Arzazar Szubrasznikarazar said:


> Tablet screens look horrible with glare and stuff. Why can't they be like monitor screens - matt?


monitors get their matte finish from a thin anti-reflective coating...that coating would wear off if it was constantly touched...try a plastic screen protector...it might be less reflective than glass and reduce the glare


----------



## ae1905

PowerShell said:


> I can't wait for the day I can dock my cell phone and have a full desktop on a monitor. I know it's been tried in the past but it wasn't successful. What's the point of having multiple devices when a phone has enough computing power for most things.


arstechnica.com *“Samsung Dex” is a Galaxy S8 dock that makes your phone into a desktop*

Andrew Cunningham - 3/29/2017, 12:42 PM



 Samsung's Dex makes the Galaxy S8 into a fake desktop. 
Samsung 
 The Dex dock, viewed from the side. 
Samsung 
 A Samsung presenter showing off Dex and its lock screen. 
Samsung 
 Blown up to full size, the mobile version of PowerPoint looks a lot like regular PowerPoint. 
Ron Amadeo. 

Samsung brought a few different accessories to the launch party for the Galaxy S8 this morning. One, Samsung Dex, is the latest in a long line of products that promise to let you replace your desktop computer with your phone.

Samsung hasn't announced pricing or a release date, and most of what we know comes from Samsung's presentation. The dock is small and circular, includes two USB ports and an HDMI port, and it is powered via USB-C (same as the S8 itself). The Verge reports that there's a small cooling fan inside the dock that presumably keeps the phone from throttling too much, enabling more desktop-y performance.

The desktop UI looks mostly straightforward: there's a lock screen, a desktop, and a Windows or Chrome OS-esque taskbar with app icons on it. You can use apps full-screen or keep them in windows—we're still talking about Android apps, and not all of them are well-suited to running on anything other than a phone or a small, narrow window.

Dex is one of several products that is blurring the lines between phones and desktops. Remix OS is an Android distribution that you can install directly on regular PCs, Google has experimented with its own windowed multitasking mode in some Android N betas, and supporting Android apps in Chrome OS accomplishes much the same thing. And while Microsoft's Windows Phone is effectively dead, using a Windows 10 handset with a compatible dock can similarly expand a phone UI and apps to simulate a desktop experience. And way back in the day, the also-doomed Ubuntu Phone also used the promise of desktop convergence to differentiate it from then-mobile-only operating systems like iOS and Android.

_Listing image by Samsung







_


----------



## ae1905

ae1905 said:


> arstechnica.com *“Samsung Dex” is a Galaxy S8 dock that makes your phone into a desktop*
> 
> Andrew Cunningham - 3/29/2017, 12:42 PM
> 
> 
> 
> Samsung's Dex makes the Galaxy S8 into a fake desktop.
> Samsung
> The Dex dock, viewed from the side.
> Samsung
> A Samsung presenter showing off Dex and its lock screen.
> Samsung
> Blown up to full size, the mobile version of PowerPoint looks a lot like regular PowerPoint.
> Ron Amadeo.
> 
> Samsung brought a few different accessories to the launch party for the Galaxy S8 this morning. One, Samsung Dex, is the latest in a long line of products that promise to let you replace your desktop computer with your phone.
> 
> Samsung hasn't announced pricing or a release date, and most of what we know comes from Samsung's presentation. The dock is small and circular, includes two USB ports and an HDMI port, and it is powered via USB-C (same as the S8 itself). The Verge reports that there's a small cooling fan inside the dock that presumably keeps the phone from throttling too much, enabling more desktop-y performance.
> 
> The desktop UI looks mostly straightforward: there's a lock screen, a desktop, and a Windows or Chrome OS-esque taskbar with app icons on it. You can use apps full-screen or keep them in windows—we're still talking about Android apps, and not all of them are well-suited to running on anything other than a phone or a small, narrow window.
> 
> Dex is one of several products that is blurring the lines between phones and desktops. Remix OS is an Android distribution that you can install directly on regular PCs, Google has experimented with its own windowed multitasking mode in some Android N betas, and supporting Android apps in Chrome OS accomplishes much the same thing. And while Microsoft's Windows Phone is effectively dead, using a Windows 10 handset with a compatible dock can similarly expand a phone UI and apps to simulate a desktop experience. And way back in the day, the also-doomed Ubuntu Phone also used the promise of desktop convergence to differentiate it from then-mobile-only operating systems like iOS and Android.
> 
> _Listing image by Samsung_


google has chrome os that is being integrated with its android play store, so they can more easily integrate mobile and desktop than apple who separates ios and osx...windows already works across desktop/laptop/tablet and can be extended into a phone device, but they need to improve their mobile apps store to make a meaningful move into the phone space...since some people already use chrome os as their productivity platform, google probably has the lead in mobile/desktop integration


----------



## ae1905

the chrome/android 2-in-1







some windows 2-in-1s


----------



## ae1905




----------



## The red spirit

ae1905 said:


> arstechnica.com *“Samsung Dex” is a Galaxy S8 dock that makes your phone into a desktop*
> 
> Andrew Cunningham - 3/29/2017, 12:42 PM
> 
> 
> 
> Samsung's Dex makes the Galaxy S8 into a fake desktop.
> Samsung
> The Dex dock, viewed from the side.
> Samsung
> A Samsung presenter showing off Dex and its lock screen.
> Samsung
> Blown up to full size, the mobile version of PowerPoint looks a lot like regular PowerPoint.
> Ron Amadeo.
> 
> Samsung brought a few different accessories to the launch party for the Galaxy S8 this morning. One, Samsung Dex, is the latest in a long line of products that promise to let you replace your desktop computer with your phone.
> 
> Samsung hasn't announced pricing or a release date, and most of what we know comes from Samsung's presentation. The dock is small and circular, includes two USB ports and an HDMI port, and it is powered via USB-C (same as the S8 itself). The Verge reports that there's a small cooling fan inside the dock that presumably keeps the phone from throttling too much, enabling more desktop-y performance.
> 
> The desktop UI looks mostly straightforward: there's a lock screen, a desktop, and a Windows or Chrome OS-esque taskbar with app icons on it. You can use apps full-screen or keep them in windows—we're still talking about Android apps, and not all of them are well-suited to running on anything other than a phone or a small, narrow window.
> 
> Dex is one of several products that is blurring the lines between phones and desktops. Remix OS is an Android distribution that you can install directly on regular PCs, Google has experimented with its own windowed multitasking mode in some Android N betas, and supporting Android apps in Chrome OS accomplishes much the same thing. And while Microsoft's Windows Phone is effectively dead, using a Windows 10 handset with a compatible dock can similarly expand a phone UI and apps to simulate a desktop experience. And way back in the day, the also-doomed Ubuntu Phone also used the promise of desktop convergence to differentiate it from then-mobile-only operating systems like iOS and Android.
> 
> _Listing image by Samsung
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _


It's bullshit, android is only good as mobile OS


----------



## ae1905

The red spirit said:


> It's bullshit, android is only good as mobile OS


I've never used office on my tablet but processors on high end tablets and phones, like the iphone 7, are now just as powerful as intel's laptop chips, which can easily handle productivity programs...so if the office apps in google play store and the apple apps store are capable, there's no reason you couldn't use a docked galaxy 8s as a workplace desktop replacement...of course, if you need more computing power than productivity apps like office demand, then you will need a workstation...but for most office workers, a mobile computer like the 8s has enough horsepower



> theverge.com *The iPhone's new chip should worry Intel*
> 
> Vlad Savov
> 
> In a game of chess, there are occasions when you’ll have almost your entire army of pieces still on the board, but positioned in such a way that their systematic downfall is all but assured. As _The Matrix_’s Agent Smith put it to an overweening police lieutenant, "your men are already dead." We may be experiencing such a moment in the tech industry today, thanks to Apple’s exceptional new A10 Fusion chip, which threatens to devour a big chunk of Intel’s heretofore imperious silicon army.
> 
> Now, before you accuse me of being high on my own metaphorical supply, I’m not saying that Intel will be crippled or surpassed anytime soon. But I _am_ arguing that the chip giant is under a substantial threat, the likes of which it hasn’t faced for a long time, maybe ever. A quick look at the Geekbench scores attained by the iPhone 7 quantifies a staggering achievement: *the single-core performance of Apple’s latest generation of smartphone processors has basically caught up with Intel’s laptops CPUs. *The A10 chip inside the iPhone 7 comfortably outpaces its predecessors and Android rivals, and even outdoes a wide catalog of relatively recent Mac computers (including the not-so-recent Mac Pro). The iPhone’s notoriously hard to benchmark against anything else and this is just one metric, but it’s illustrative of Apple’s accelerating momentum and mobile focus.
> 
> Intel has for many years been the undisputed champion of desktop and laptop processors running the x86 instruction set. Its sole competitor, AMD, hasn’t actually been competitive since around the turn of the century, and we have the Wintel portmanteau reminding us of the enduring dominance of Intel’s chips and Microsoft’s Windows OS in the years since. But many things have changed since the days of comparing AMD’s Thunderbird against Intel’s Pentium.
> 
> The first thing — the one we’re all aware of, but never really adequately conscious of — is that the whole world is moving to mobile computing. This isn’t some slow transition off on the distant horizon like AI, it’s a thing happening _right now_. Advertisers are shifting their spending from desktop to mobile faster than they are pulling it out of print media, and people are buying smartphones at five times the rate that they’re acquiring new PCs. IDC’s 2015 figures show 1.43 billion smartphones shipped versus 276 million PCs. Apple _by itself_ shipped more iPhones (74.8 million) in the last quarter of last year than the entire PC industry (71.9 million) managed to ship PCs.
> 
> The predominant form of computing is already mobile. It’s already the case, by sheer force of numbers, that Apple’s A series of mobile processors are at least as important and market-leading as Intel’s vast portfolio of x86 chips. But the present pseudo-equilibrium between them is being drastically upset by Apple’s leap in performance with the new A10 Fusion. By straying into the performance waters previously reserved for Intel’s laptop CPUs, Apple is teasing us with the question of why not inject the A10 (or its successors) into actual laptops? Why shouldn’t the next MacBook run on the same chip as the current iPhone? Granted, the MacBook’s macOS is based on x86 whereas the A chips all use the ARM architecture, but then an equally interesting question might be whether Apple shouldn’t just bite the bullet and make iOS its universal operating system.I think we’re past the point where ARM chips in Apple consumer desktops make sense. The only Q now is OS to run on it - shouldn’t be macOS
> — Steve T-S (@stroughtonsmith) September 16, 2016
> ​It sounds wild, but the A10 looks to have the power and efficiency to handle the workload of a full PC. This coalescence of mobile and desktop PCs is driven by forces on both sides: mobile chips are getting more potent at the same time as our power needs are shrinking and our tasks become more mobile. If you think your workplace isn’t changing much because there are a bunch of weathered Dell workstations sitting next to frumpy HP printers, consider just how much more work every one of your officemates is doing _outside_ the office, on their phone. And all those grand and power-hungry x86 applications that might have kept people running macOS — Adobe’s Photoshop and Lightroom being two key examples — well, they’re being ported to iOS in almost their full functionality, having been incentivized by the existence of Apple’s iPad Pro line, last year’s harbinger for this year’s performance jump.
> 
> Unlike Windows, whose x86 reliance is tied to its dominance of the lucrative PC gaming market, Apple really has very few anchors locking it down to macOS. The Cupertino company has been investing the vast majority of its development time into the mobile iOS for years now, and that shows in the different rates of progress between its two pieces of software. macOS is, in many ways, legacy software just waiting for the right moment to be deprecated. It’s getting a fresh lick of paint now and then, but most of its novelties now relate to how it links back to Apple’s core iOS and iPhone business.
> 
> Intel will continue to dominate the high end, but that market is small and shrinkingIt’s difficult for those of my generation — people who grew up with the beige PC box as a cultish object of desire and the symbol of cutting-edge computing — to understand just how divorced the modern world and population have become from the desktop PC. The desktop today is akin to what mainframes were in the past: an imposing, burring, gargantuan construction that you only resort to when you really need to get some heavy work done.
> 
> There will always be room for Intel’s dominance to persist. As workloads increase in size and complexity, the opportunities to turn them into parallel tasks improve, and that’s where machines like the 12-core Mac Pro will handily outdo the iPhone 7. Of course. You can also strap massive graphics cards and massive amounts of RAM onto a tower PC, and you won’t have to worry about limitations of storage either. But the market for such high-end power is small and shrinking. Our video production needs today are better characterized by Snapchat Live Stories than Adobe Premiere Pro.
> 
> It is simply a matter of time.
> Intel already let Apple down once with the original MacBook’s underpowered Core M processor, and the absence of an Intel Skylake upgrade for either the MacBook Pro or Air this year also seems to have been caused by Apple’s dissatisfaction with Intel’s CPUs. There is nothing that Apple would like to do more than rid itself of its reliance on Intel, which would eliminate such unforeseen hiccups in the future. Apple is famous for its vertical integration, owning and controlling every possible aspect of its supply and production chain, and switching to its own processor chips across all devices would be the next logical improvement in that integration.
> 
> If you want to develop the next great processor, you’d better be going mobile first and building from there. Intel’s decades of futile attempts to shrink desktop chips into mobile devices have shown how not to do things. Now Apple’s persistent and apparently accelerating performance improvement with the A series suggests it might have found the right path through. It’s fitting that this new chip is called A10 Fusion, because the path it’s leading us on will eventually lead to the merging of what we now consider two distinct classes of mobile and desktop PCs. As Morpheus once put it, "it is simply a matter of time."


----------



## The red spirit

ae1905 said:


> I've never used office on my tablet but processors on high end phones like the iphone 7 are just as powerful as intel's laptop chips which can easily handle productivity programs...so if the office apps in google play store and the apple apps store are capable, there's no reason you couldn't use a docked tab 8s as a desktop workplace replacement


Mobile office =/= Full office


----------



## ae1905

The red spirit said:


> Mobile office =/= Full office


have you used them?


----------



## ae1905

the kangaroo pc started as an ultra-small computer, like the intel compute stick, but they ported the device to work in a laptop form factor:






it's not hard to imagine doing this with a phone


----------



## ae1905

if you think about it, the reason we have phones, tablets, and laptops is to extend the use cases where we have access to a computing device; mobile devices give us some of the computing capability of our desktops when we away from our offices...but when we can put the power of a desktop into a mobile form factor, mobile devices can _replace _the desktop...we see this in laptops where the most powerful units can easily replace all but the most powerful desktops...as phones and tablets also become as powerful as desktops, they too will have the potential to replace the desktop (and laptop)

put simply, traditionally, desktops have had power but not mobility, while mobile devices have had mobility but not power...but when mobile devices become as powerful as desktops and have _both _power and mobility, why will anyone (except maybe power users) need the desktop?


----------



## ae1905




----------



## ae1905

The red spirit said:


> Mobile office =/= Full office


according to this, if you have an office subscription, mobile = full office



> windowscentral.com *Microsoft clarifies the differences between mobile and desktop Office apps*
> 
> John Callaham
> 
> Which version is best for you?
> 
> By Wednesday, Mar 25, 2015 at 4:11 pm EDT
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Microsoft has clarified the main differences, in both price and features, of the mobile Office apps compared to the full-featured desktop and laptop applications made for professional users. In the latter case, customers will have to purchase an Office 365 subscription in order to use those apps.
> Recently, Microsoft allowed users of the Office apps for Android and iOS devices to create, edit and view documents for free, rather than requiring an Office 365 subscription. In a blog post this week, Microsoft's Kirk Koenigsbauer says that devices up to a certain screen size will have free viewing and editing access. He stated:
> 
> Based on our research, we are classifying anything with a screen size of 10.1 inches or less as a true mobile device: You're probably using it on the go, when it's not practical to use a larger computing device such as a PC or a Mac. You probably aren't using a mouse or a keyboard, instead navigating via touch interface. It's probably not a "pro" category tablet that is used for design or presentations. On these devices, the core editing and viewing experience is free, until you get to those premium, subscription features.
> ​Consumers also have the option of purchasing an Office 365 Personal or Home subscription which offers more features. Koenigbauer said:
> 
> *With Office 365 Home and Office 365 Personal, families and individuals can extend the Office experience across all of their devices and take advantage of premium, subscription-only benefits like more robust editing and authoring features in the Office apps*, 1TB of OneDrive storage and 60 minutes of Skype unlimited worldwide calling per month.
> ​Finally, business users of Office apps will be required to sign up for some kind of Office 365 subscription plan. Koenigbauer says:
> 
> These users require more than simple apps: Organizations need an integrated product suite. They need security and reliability. And most of all, they need to be able to get things done, wherever they are. Serving professional users on a subscription-only basis makes sense, because of those extended needs, and the resulting product categories and licensing models for business customers are a key element to Office 365 experiencing phenomenal growth.
> ​Microsoft also revealed that the current combined number of subscriptions to Office 365 Home and Office 365 Personal is now over 9.2 million, while commercial seats for Office 365 had increased by 88% compared to the same time a year ago.
> Source: Microsoft


----------



## PowerShell

ae1905 said:


> arstechnica.com *“Samsung Dex” is a Galaxy S8 dock that makes your phone into a desktop*
> 
> Andrew Cunningham - 3/29/2017, 12:42 PM
> 
> 
> 
> Samsung's Dex makes the Galaxy S8 into a fake desktop.
> Samsung
> The Dex dock, viewed from the side.
> Samsung
> A Samsung presenter showing off Dex and its lock screen.
> Samsung
> Blown up to full size, the mobile version of PowerPoint looks a lot like regular PowerPoint.
> Ron Amadeo.


Looks cool but I was talking more like a full blown desktop OS also running on the phone and it switching. Look and feel is nice, but I want the legit thing. Basically an iPhone that also runs OSX. Considering I can type text messages with the messages app on my Macbook, it shouldn't be too hard.


----------



## The red spirit

ae1905 said:


> have you used them?


Yep, free MS office version


----------



## The red spirit

ae1905 said:


> according to this, if you have an office subscription, mobile = full office


No it's not, just with premium features.


----------



## ferroequinologist

The red spirit said:


> No it's not, just with premium features.


I have Office 365 on my Surface, and have both the mobile apps and desktop apps installed. I find the mobile apps limiting--not so much in their features as in their interface. It's hard to explain, but some things seem either more difficult to accomplish, or just not possible. I do know that the OneNote app is crippled over the 2016 version (no ink-to-text or OCR). 

But honestly, those things where the mobile apps seem lacking to me are really esoteric things, and may be more down to the fact that I'm coming from a Mac-user's perspective, who hasn't used Microsoft's apps since the early 2000s, and even then, on the Mac. I really struggle with Microsoft's new "ribbon" interface over menus. It seems really dumb to utterly remove the menus. I think the organization of the ribbons makes no sense, and some things I just haven't found either in the mobile or desktop versions of the apps. 

A humorous aside. I noticed the help feature in Word yesterday. There's text in the search field that says "Tell me what you want to do" For some reason, I remembered that FB and Google have begun, when someone searches for information on suicide or how to commit suicide, replying with help lines, etc. So, on a whim, I wrote, "I want to die". The result? The first option was "Date and Time"!!! As if to suggest that I hurry and get it over with! 

Anyway... the mobile apps are surprisingly powerful these days (at least on Windows), but they are different enough that if your needs are really specific and technical, you will probably need the desktop version. Good side, though, is that you don't lose anything by opening and editing complex documents in the mobile apps, which use to happen back in the day...


----------



## ae1905

PowerShell said:


> Looks cool but I was talking more like a full blown desktop OS also running on the phone and it switching. Look and feel is nice, but I want the legit thing. Basically an iPhone that also runs OSX. Considering I can type text messages with the messages app on my Macbook, it shouldn't be too hard.


an iphone (with a memory/storage bump) already has enough horsepower to run osx...it's apple that wants you to continue buying its phones _and _laptops/desktops...on the bright side, I think continuing hardware advances will incent apple to develop ios to take advantage of the hardware and make it more useful for productivity...a more productivity-friendly ios will naturally become more and more osx like...at some point, the two oss will become similar enough the rationale for keep them separate will disappear...microsoft has already unified its os...chrome os is taking steps in the direction of android...apple will probably follow when the hardware advances enough


----------



## PowerShell

ae1905 said:


> an iphone (with a memory/storage bump) already has enough horsepower to run osx...it's apple that wants you to continue buying its phones _and _laptops/desktops...on the bright side, I think continuing hardware advances will incent apple to develop ios to take advantage of the hardware and make it more useful for productivity...a more productivity-friendly ios will naturally become more and more osx like...at some point, the two oss will become similar enough the rationale for keep them separate will disappear...microsoft has already unified its os...chrome os is taking steps in the direction of android...apple will probably follow when the hardware advances enough


It's also different processor architectures. ARM basically vs x86\x64. It would take some effort to converge them, but I do see ARM winning.


----------



## ae1905

PowerShell said:


> It's also different processor architectures. ARM basically vs x86\x64. It would take some effort to converge them, but I do see ARM winning.


sure, the iphone is their bread and butter so ios is inarguably more important than osx...they also have to ability to use their own arm processors or design new ones, so they could ditch intel _and _save some money doing it

the original reason for using arm in mobile was its low-power consumption...but as arm has become more powerful, it has become viable as a desktop replacement for x86/amd64 chips


----------



## ae1905

how to turn a phone into a tablet--sort of







a more useful way might be making "dumb" tablets that are nothing more than a touchscreen and some i/o that connects wirelessly to your phone, allowing you to stream your phone on to the tablet


----------



## PowerShell

ae1905 said:


> sure, the iphone is their bread and butter so ios is inarguably more important than osx...they also have to ability to design their own processors so they could ditch intel and go with arm, _and _save some money doing it


It's still a massive undertaking.


----------



## ae1905

PowerShell said:


> It's still a massive undertaking.


ms ported windows to arm...so it's been done....and apple already designs its own mobile chips...they could repurpose those and/or use them as templates to design more powerful chips...in fact, server grade chip designs exist...arm tried to get into servers a while back--don't remember the company


----------



## The red spirit

ae1905 said:


> an iphone (with a memory/storage bump) already has enough horsepower to run osx...it's apple that wants you to continue buying its phones _and _laptops/desktops...on the bright side, I think continuing hardware advances will incent apple to develop ios to take advantage of the hardware and make it more useful for productivity...a more productivity-friendly ios will naturally become more and more osx like...at some point, the two oss will become similar enough the rationale for keep them separate will disappear...microsoft has already unified its os...chrome os is taking steps in the direction of android...apple will probably follow when the hardware advances enough


Plz don't forget that using Mac OS on iPhone would be really painful, it's only over 6 inches of space for desktop OS. There's no point in porting Mac OS to iPhone.


----------



## PowerShell

The red spirit said:


> Plz don't forget that using Mac OS on iPhone would be really painful, it's only over 6 inches of space for desktop OS. There's no point in porting Mac OS to iPhone.


That's not the point. You'd use iOS while it is in phone mode and OSX when it's docked and in desktop mode.


----------



## The red spirit

PowerShell said:


> That's not the point. You'd use iOS while it is in phone mode and OSX when it's docked and in desktop mode.


It's portable device by it's nature...


----------



## PowerShell

The red spirit said:


> It's portable device by it's nature...


I know, but if it's as powerful as a desktop, why can't it serve as both? I already dock my laptop at work so I can have dual screens, a USB keyboard and mouse, and everything else I would use as a desktop as opposed to just using the laptop screen, keyboard, and track pad. Why can't they do the same thing with a cell phone? Make it so I literally only need to buy a single device and it takes care of all my computing needs?


----------



## Grandmaster Yoda

iOS and macOS use the same Darwin kernel and very similar code. I hadn't used a Mac since OS X version 10.5 and that really came out before the iPhone was a major player. I then tried macOS 10.9 in a virtual machine. It immediately struck me how the user interface and apps resembled iOS apps. It had become more iOS-like, not the other way around. I find the productivity debate to seem odd, Mac was never known for productivity. Yes, it had MS Office, but the stereotype has always been that boring businessmen use Windows and Mac is used by creative little digital media people.

The idea of porting macOS to a portable Apple product seems odd. It practically is macOS, but the limitations you see are based on the market. You do have Microsoft Office on iOS. I understand it's probably limited for whatever reason. But I've heard quite a few complaints about Microsoft Office on Mac as well. If you look around the app store you'd see some interestingly powerful stuff. It seems like more market limitations that are stopping iOS from becoming a desktop.

10 years on, Apple's risky move to Intel Macs is one of its biggest successes 

This article talks about the transition to Intel-Macs. Notably how they worked around limitations of architecture differences with universal binaries. It also mentions Windows 8 RT and how they did not do that, effectively creating a Windows without any of the Windows.


----------



## PowerShell

Grandmaster Yoda said:


> I find the productivity debate to seem odd, Mac was never known for productivity. Yes, it had MS Office, but the stereotype has always been that boring businessmen use Windows and Mac is used by creative little digital media people.


It's the ecosystem, at least for my purposes as a travel blogger. The fact I can easily airdrop files and things sync seamlessly saves me a ton of time. Also, a Mac system takes care of itself for the most part. It doesn't slow down after a while like a Windows system and requires disk cleanups and defrags. There are less viruses (I'm not saying no viruses) so there's less worry there. Overall, it just runs and is efficient. 

It meets my needs now, although I don't buy it for the shiny gadget part:


----------



## Grandmaster Yoda

PowerShell said:


> It's the ecosystem, at least for my purposes as a travel blogger. The fact I can easily airdrop files and things sync seamlessly saves me a ton of time. Also, a Mac system takes care of itself for the most part. It doesn't slow down after a while like a Windows system and requires disk cleanups and defrags. There are less viruses (I'm not saying no viruses) so there's less worry there. Overall, it just runs and is efficient.
> 
> It meets my needs now, although I don't buy it for the shiny gadget part:


Apple stuff does work. It's ironic, I think a lot of people are attached to two things, the idea that Apple is limited and that it is a cult of personality sort of product. You can't play around with iOS as much as you can Android. But I find iOS to be much more well designed and refined. By default, I can install iTunes and back up all of my apps with a click of a button. Android you can actually do a full system image but that requires rooting and the drivers for my phone didn't even work for my pc correctly. Everything is much easier in my opinion. I think a lot of things could be made to work, but they aren't there for non-technical reasons.


----------



## PowerShell

Grandmaster Yoda said:


> Apple stuff does work. It's ironic, I think a lot of people are attached to two things, the idea that Apple is limited and that it is a cult of personality sort of product. You can't play around with iOS as much as you can Android. But I find iOS to be much more well designed and refined. By default, I can install iTunes and back up all of my apps with a click of a button. Android you can actually do a full system image but that requires rooting and the drivers for my phone didn't even work for my pc correctly. Everything is much easier in my opinion. I think a lot of things could be made to work, but they aren't there for non-technical reasons.


I do this kind of stuff everyday for a living. The last thing I want to do is piss around with a computer more to make things work. I just want to do my travel blog and I want things to work. I used to want to tinker more, but doing it for a living has pulled that motivation out for me. It's also nice when people are on Apple products because the amount of time to support them is less.


----------



## bigstupidgrin

I keep getting hand-me-down iPads but barely use them. My wife uses her tablet a lot for mobile games and streaming Netflix/hulu. 

I see them fairly frequently in schools. They are an easy way to get more books in the hands of kids, and have educational games. They usually buy the most bulky heavyduty cases for them. If the class doesn't have tablets they'll have Chromebooks.


----------



## ferroequinologist

PowerShell said:


> It's still a massive undertaking.


Apple has gone through multiple major platform changes in their past--the first big one was from 68K chips to the PowerPC (RISC, like ARM), back in the days of System 7 in the early 90s. It was rather transparent to most users (most of the time). And again, in the early days of OSX, Apple transitioned to Intel. Since OSX is already running on ARM chips on the iOS devices, and also, I suspect, since most apps are created in Apple's own development environment, I'm going tu\o guess that should Apple transition back to RISC-based chips, that it would be the easiest transition to date. 

As an aside, ARM exists because of Apple, and it was used in their Newton handheld devices back in the 90s, and Apple made a boatload of money off of ARM. 

But I still think that if Apple does move to ARM, they will do so probably most likely by ramping iOS up rather than scaling MacOS back. That's my suspicion. In other words, we should expect to see iOS pick up new functionality and add capabilities while MacOS stays relatively static. But honestly, nobody but Apple knows what their plans are, but I can well imagine, based on their history, that they are prepping multiple scenarios, and that MacOS is probably already fully running on their own AXX series of chips, and iOS is probably also already fulling running on other architectures (Snapdragon, X86/X64).


----------



## ferroequinologist

Grandmaster Yoda said:


> I find the productivity debate to seem odd, Mac was never known for productivity. Yes, it had MS Office, but the stereotype has always been that boring businessmen use Windows and Mac is used by creative little digital media people.
> 
> The idea of porting macOS to a portable Apple product seems odd. It practically is macOS, but the limitations you see are based on the market. You do have Microsoft Office on iOS. I understand it's probably limited for whatever reason. But I've heard quite a few complaints about Microsoft Office on Mac as well.


the MacOS has always been primarily about productivity. But that's in opposition to games. With the Mac, you just get things done, and the OS doesn't hinder this. One aspect of this is that there is a consistent user interface among apps. Using Win10 now, one thing that frustrates me the most about Windows is how every app is different, with its own ideas of how to access its features. Some have menus on a menubar. Others have those Android-type drop menus. Some have ribbons, etc. Windows 10 has its own way of a sort-of hamburger menu like Android, but then there's the Office ribbon. It's a mess. I'm just glad that the apps I use the most are all Mac ports that hold to the menubar. ;-) (except Chrome, of course, although Google Docs, and their other Drive apps do have a menubar.) 

The sad truth is that the Mac is light-years ahead of Windows with regard to getting things done efficiently, and without the interface getting in the way. I know that people who have long used Windows are accustomed to how it does things, but frankly, it's always multitudes more steps to accomplish things in Windows—even Win10—vs the Mac. For instance, notice those em-dashes I just put in? That took me downloading a separate app, and creating the shortcuts just to have an easy way to enter an em-dash. I also added a ton of other Mac-like keyboard shortcuts for other symbols I use a lot, and I keep adding them as I find them. ™®©„”– — are the examples I can think of off the top of my head, but I've got more. Windows file manager is also a hopeless mess for actually getting things done in a workflow-type manner. I dreadfully miss the Finder. 

But what I was going to say was this. Today, productivity equals creative content, and creative content is best done on a Mac. Windows is trying hard to win people over—and it's succeeding to an extent, but after six months on my Surface Pro, I find myself missing my MacOS, and am now looking at installing it into a VM on my Surface, just to have access to a couple apps I am finding I need (Mostly Keynote, Pages and Nisus, but also a Mac-only Bible program, Eloquent) Thing is, one can live with Windows 10 if one must, but honestly, Macs are, IMO, more truly productive even now. 

Oh, and Office on the Mac is now feature-equal with Windows, so that argument is a non-starter nowadays. It once was true, but no longer is. 

IMO, right now, Apple's biggest problem is its hardware. It's sorely lacking.


----------



## The red spirit

PowerShell said:


> I know, but if it's as powerful as a desktop, why can't it serve as both? I already dock my laptop at work so I can have dual screens, a USB keyboard and mouse, and everything else I would use as a desktop as opposed to just using the laptop screen, keyboard, and track pad. Why can't they do the same thing with a cell phone? Make it so I literally only need to buy a single device and it takes care of all my computing needs?


Battery life and it's too risky to do such things


----------



## The red spirit

ferroequinologist said:


> IMO, right now, Apple's biggest problem is its hardware. It's sorely lacking.


Only that? What about horrible software availability? Windows is leading platform in that. What about lack of video games? What about lack of products supported by Macs? 

Mac almost always lacks something and that is not good.


----------



## ferroequinologist

The red spirit said:


> Only that? What about horrible software availability? Windows is leading platform in that.


Seriously? Macs are lacking nothing in the serious software department. In fact, I would argue that the superior software is all on the Mac, and some of the best (Omnigroup software, Nisus, DevonTechnologies) is absolutely _not_ available on Windows. What decent, non-game software do you have on Windows that isn't available on the Mac? I've watched both sides of the fence now for decades, and I can't remember ever looking at an app that was on Windows, and wishing it were on the Mac, but sitting here, now, on the other side, I'm missing my Devon and Nisus apps. Not badly enough, mind you, to go back. The biggest lack through the years was the Microsoft Office suite, which was crippled on the Mac vs. Windows, due to some Windows-specific tie-ins that Microsoft held to themselves. I know there are tons more apps available for Windows, but frankly, after a few months, I've realized that the vast bulk are second-rate. This is one of those things that Windows-users go on about, but frankly, it's a non-starter as far as I'm concerned... I've learned, though, that what many people mean when they talk about software, is the easily accessible pirated software... but that's a different story.



> What about lack of video games? What about lack of products supported by Macs?
> 
> Mac almost always lacks something and that is not good.


Have you looked around lately? Because Mac models are few, and the people who buy them tend to have more disposable income, there is a _huge aftermarket for things like cases and accessories. Things like printers, etc. are also all working on Macs these days. This isn't the 90s any more. ;-) And I will give you games... But on the other hand, you can have the games. I have no desire to bog my computer down with loads of games. But the thing is, by not focusing on games, Apple is able to optimize their hardware for things like workflow, productivity, etc. And this is one reason why it's preferred by creative professionals. It just works, and works well. Gamers and office people can have their Windows. ;-)

But all of this is all fading. All these arguments date back to the days of Windows XP and Vista. Windows and Macs are drawing together, so that the differences are much smaller. For instance, in Windows 10, if you want Universal apps, you are more limited than Mac users are. You either have to stick with the much smaller selection, or use the very confusing and inconsistent plethora of apps that, in some cases, date back to the XP days... it's a bigger mess than the Mac. Windows 10 has done lots of good things, but it's no MacOS, and that day could be a long way off... if developers don't develop, then Windows will always lag behind MacOS. And that's a weird turn-about.


----------



## ae1905

The red spirit said:


> Plz don't forget that using Mac OS on iPhone would be really painful, it's only over 6 inches of space for desktop OS. There's no point in porting Mac OS to iPhone.


pls remember we are talking about using a phone as a desktop replacement, for example, by docking it on a desktop platform, a la samsung's dex


----------



## PowerShell

The red spirit said:


> Battery life and it's too risky to do such things


How is too risky?



ferroequinologist said:


> But I still think that if Apple does move to ARM, they will do so probably most likely by ramping iOS up rather than scaling MacOS back. That's my suspicion. In other words, we should expect to see iOS pick up new functionality and add capabilities while MacOS stays relatively static. But honestly, nobody but Apple knows what their plans are, but I can well imagine, based on their history, that they are prepping multiple scenarios, and that MacOS is probably already fully running on their own AXX series of chips, and iOS is probably also already fulling running on other architectures (Snapdragon, X86/X64).


I don't see why they'd have to scale OSX back. It's literally just make it run in parallel to iOS and only be active when it's docked.


----------



## The red spirit

ferroequinologist said:


> Seriously? Macs are lacking nothing in the serious software department. In fact, I would argue that the superior software is all on the Mac, and some of the best (Omnigroup software, Nisus, DevonTechnologies) is absolutely _not_ available on Windows. What decent, non-game software do you have on Windows that isn't available on the Mac? I've watched both sides of the fence now for decades, and I can't remember ever looking at an app that was on Windows, and wishing it were on the Mac, but sitting here, now, on the other side, I'm missing my Devon and Nisus apps. Not badly enough, mind you, to go back. The biggest lack through the years was the Microsoft Office suite, which was crippled on the Mac vs. Windows, due to some Windows-specific tie-ins that Microsoft held to themselves. I know there are tons more apps available for Windows, but frankly, after a few months, I've realized that the vast bulk are second-rate. This is one of those things that Windows-users go on about, but frankly, it's a non-starter as far as I'm concerned... I've learned, though, that what many people mean when they talk about software, is the easily accessible pirated software... but that's a different story.


Decent software tha tisn't on Mac OS:
MSI Afterburner
3D Mark
PC Mark
Crystal Disk info
Foobar 2000
Fraps
Img burn
Mini tool partition wizard
nexus root toolkit
Odin (samsung rom flasher)
Win32DiskImager
Paint.net
Notepad++
7zip
CPU-Z
iso2god
NVFlash (I trusted this software with risk of ruining my GPU)

...and I use all of it. Now imagine someone other than me, it's definitely limited OS in software. Maybe it's good for you, but not for everyone and especiallly for modders or other people with unpopular software. That software isn't necessarily bad software or incomplete one, it's just unpopular. Sometimes even popular software doesn't come to Mac *and it's a problem*.



ferroequinologist said:


> Have you looked around lately? Because Mac models are few, and the people who buy them tend to have more disposable income, there is a _huge aftermarket for things like cases and accessories. Things like printers, etc. are also all working on Macs these days.


Not all of that works compared to Windows



ferroequinologist said:


> This isn't the 90s any more. ;-)


In the 90s Apple could have got away with their disadvantages easely, now you have me complaining non-stop



ferroequinologist said:


> And I will give you games...


I don't know what you meant here, but I hope you aren't pervert.



ferroequinologist said:


> But on the other hand, you can have the games.


Not that easely as with linux or Windows. Windows support it natively, linux has wine and Steam OS, Mac OS Xdoesn't have them all and only small fraction of them is supported. If you have Mac, then you can install/load windows hard way. Even then Macs rarely have gameworthy hardware to run them. Seriously, it's just bad platform for gaming, even those mac **** could agree with that.



ferroequinologist said:


> I have no desire to bog my computer down with loads of games.


Personal choise, some people can't live without those. I personally want to be able to play NFS underground on my PC or GTA 4.



ferroequinologist said:


> But the thing is, by not focusing on games, Apple is able to optimize their hardware for things like workflow, productivity, etc.


I wonder how? Macs from what I know don't have directx or mantle. One thing that I know is that Mac os version games run poorly on them. 



ferroequinologist said:


> And this is one reason why it's preferred by creative professionals. It just works, and works well. Gamers and office people can have their Windows. ;-)


They are preffered for their stability and other stuff, but I haven't ever heard of special optimisations for Macs.



ferroequinologist said:


> But all of this is all fading. Hardware became worse (2010 Mac mini fully upgraded beats latest Mac mini, latest Macbook is slower than late Macbook Airs). All these arguments date back to the days of Windows XP and Vista.


Not really. I listed software that isn't available on Macs. Video game support is still bad on Macs and performance still suffers 





I agree that device compatibility has increased. Something like overheating appeared (Windows isn't good idea on Macs).











ferroequinologist said:


> Windows and Macs are drawing together, so that the differences are much smaller.


I said above that new issues arise.



ferroequinologist said:


> For instance, in Windows 10, if you want Universal apps, you are more limited than Mac users are. You either have to stick with the much smaller selection, or use the very confusing and inconsistent plethora of apps that, in some cases, date back to the XP days...


What do you mean by Universal apps? Windows has much more software than Mac OS X or Linux.



ferroequinologist said:


> it's a bigger mess than the Mac.














ferroequinologist said:


> Windows 10 has done lots of good things, but it's no MacOS, and that day could be a long way off... if developers don't develop, then Windows will always lag behind MacOS. And that's a weird turn-about.


It doesn't lag behind at all. Mac was always runner up and was fighting with extinction (except those times when Windows just started to exist, after Win 95 launch). Linux was always lagging behind those two. If you want I could say that Mac OS is just as good as Windows, they have different advatages and disadvantages, it's just question of your taste, but majority of the world uses Windows machines and there are good reasons for that. I personally find Mac OS very limiting and I don't like that, maybe I'm Windows fanboy (which I'm not really am, I don't want to limit myself, Windows for me does everything I need better than any other OS, so it's natural that I say it's best to because it truly is), at least I don't write bullshit and false statements.


----------



## The red spirit

ae1905 said:


> pls remember we are talking about using a phone as a desktop replacement, for example, by docking it on a desktop platform, a la samsung's dex


You could have done it many years ago. I thought it was very cool that this was possible, in reality it sucked (Android is optimised for touch screens, not for mouses. I tried that on Nexus 7, just without external display. Now I have Note 3 neo and I can say that multi windows aren't comfortable and only sometimes become practical, cool feature with not so cool reality.):


----------



## The red spirit

PowerShell said:


> How is too risky?


How many people would want that? Can you anwer that? I can't and many other people can't. Android has mouse, eyboard and external display compatibility, yet not many people use that. Development requires money and risking money on thing that *maybe* attract customers is risky. What if it wouldn't be a feature that people want? They won't buy devices for that and money would be wasted. I call it risky, because we can't predict how potential customers may react to such things.


----------



## PowerShell

The red spirit said:


> How many people would want that? Can you anwer that? I can't and many other people can't. Android has mouse, eyboard and external display compatibility, yet not many people use that. Development requires money and risking money on thing that *maybe* attract customers is risky. What if it wouldn't be a feature that people want? They won't buy devices for that and money would be wasted. I call it risky, because we can't predict how potential customers may react to such things.


When you can tell me people instead of paying $500 for a phone and another $500 for a laptop, you can tell them they can do it all in a phone, you'll get more people onboard. It's also making the experience on the desktop side like a desktop instead of just making the mobile experience bigger. I know I'd do it in a heartbeat. What's the point of having more devices than you really need?


----------



## The red spirit

PowerShell said:


> When you can tell me people instead of paying $500 for a phone and another $500 for a laptop, you can tell them they can do it all in a phone, you'll get more people onboard. It's also making the experience on the desktop side like a desktop instead of just making the mobile experience bigger. I know I'd do it in a heartbeat. What's the point of having more devices than you really need?


It wouldn't be that easy. 

Issues:
Price will increase a lot for that extra functionality
Lack of ports on phone-PC hybrid
Lack of power
Lack of upgradability
Lack of easy functionality (like DVD drive in PC)
It will only be PC once it's docked
Adapter/splitter madness *intensifies*


----------



## The red spirit

and this thread went kaboomz when I posted with arguments.


----------



## ferroequinologist

The red spirit said:


> Decent software tha tisn't on Mac OS:
> MSI Afterburner
> 3D Mark
> PC Mark
> Crystal Disk info
> Foobar 2000
> Fraps
> Img burn
> Mini tool partition wizard
> nexus root toolkit
> Odin (samsung rom flasher)
> Win32DiskImager
> Paint.net
> Notepad++
> 7zip
> CPU-Z
> iso2god
> NVFlash (I trusted this software with risk of ruining my GPU)
> 
> ...and I use all of it. Now imagine someone other than me, it's definitely limited OS in software. Maybe it's good for you, but not for everyone and especiallly for modders or other people with unpopular software. That software isn't necessarily bad software or incomplete one, it's just unpopular. Sometimes even popular software doesn't come to Mac *and it's a problem*.


Most of what you list are system/OS-specific utilities one-trick toys. They aren't general use apps. The Mac also has its share of these things, and some of what you listed are not necessary on the Mac because their functionality is baked into the system. I will grant that much of that is hidden in the commandline, but on the other hand, people have written gui front-ends to access most of this as well (again, OS-specific utilities). Every system is unique, and builds a repertoire of utilities the people build to "fill in the gaps" that they come across, using the system, and every system is unique, as to what tools are written, because each system is different, and their users are different, and the needs are different. Out of this list, there were two apps you mentioned--Notepad++ and Paint.net. Those are two apps that aren't on the Mac, but just like the apps I mentioned aren't on Windows, there are things that do what these apps do. Macs have their Pixelmater, and we also have BBEdit and TextMate for text editing. If anything, both of those tools are beyond Notepad++. And yes, all of these apps are paid apps (though BBEdit has a free mode which is closer to what Notepad++ offers). People may complain about them costing, but here's the thing, a good app--a really and truly good app, that has amazing features that are a dream to use--those things don't come freely. The same is true on Windows. Truly good apps aren't free. And the free apps may be great at some things, but you still pay for that price in their use... complex and arcane menu structure, having to jump through hoops to accomplish simple tasks, etc. and that reminds me of the GIMP. It's on Mac, and I used it before I bought into CreativeCloud (for apps other than Photoshop), but it suffers from these issues. Photoshop, now I'm back using it, reminds me every time what makes it special. It's just there, and works. Pixelmater on the Mac is even more beautiful, and Acorn is also a dream to use. 





> I don't know what you meant here, but I hope you aren't pervert.
> 
> 
> Not that easely as with linux or Windows. Windows support it natively, linux has wine and Steam OS, Mac OS Xdoesn't have them all and only small fraction of them is supported. If you have Mac, then you can install/load windows hard way. Even then Macs rarely have gameworthy hardware to run them. Seriously, it's just bad platform for gaming, even those mac **** could agree with that.
> 
> 
> Personal choise, some people can't live without those. I personally want to be able to play NFS underground on my PC or GTA 4.
> 
> 
> I wonder how? Macs from what I know don't have directx or mantle. One thing that I know is that Mac os version games run poorly on them.


When I said I give you the games, I was conceding that Windows has a huge advantage when it comes to games. But that was my original point!!! Windows is for playing!!! Either playing with games, or modding and tinkering with the hardware and software, trying to squeeze out every last ounce of performance in the most arcane ways... but even then, it's all about gaming, isn't it? You don't bother doing this stuff for Office or Photoshop, or any other kind of app!!! You just use the apps! The only reason to tinker and mod is to get a higher frame rate at higher complexity and resolution. 



> They are preffered for their stability and other stuff, but I haven't ever heard of special optimisations for Macs.


You don't have to optimize a program for the Mac, because the system does the optimizing. It's all at a system level, and frankly, trying to muck with that tends to make matters worse (when I had my Hackintoshes, I had to mod sometimes, and that was always an issue I had to deal with). The Mac makes it so you don't have to deal with drivers, or hacks or optimizations. You take it out of the box and use it. 

But this goes back to my original point. Macs are for productivity. If you want to get things done, and don't want to hassle, get a Mac, and be done. But yes, you need to be prepared to pay...






> What do you mean by Universal apps? Windows has much more software than Mac OS X or Linux.


If you want to put an app into the Windows app store, it has to be a "universal" app--or one that runs on both phones and desktop. I probably should have just said Windows Store Apps. Lots of new users want to just download from the trusted Windows store. I know that if my parents wanted to buy a Windows computer, I would set their computer up to only allow store apps. But as soon as you do that, you are suddenly faced with far fewer programs to choose from than either the Mac or Linux. This is my point. If you want a consistent Windows experience, you have to buy and download apps only from the App store, and if you do that, you are severely limited in what's available. Otherwise, you are forced out into the dark world of the web... And yes, I know people who aren't super willing to do that. But my point was this, if you limit yourself to Windows store apps, the Mac has a huge advantage over Windows then. 





> It doesn't lag behind at all. Mac was always runner up and was fighting with extinction (except those times when Windows just started to exist, after Win 95 launch).


Did you know that when Apple (the company" was "fighting with extinction" it had more money in the bank than just about every other company, not just those in technology--billions in the bank as totally free and open cash to spend if they wanted to... They were never close to extinction as the media portrays it. Probably the closest they ever came was right before Jobs returned.




> Linux was always lagging behind those two. If you want I could say that Mac OS is just as good as Windows, they have different advatages and disadvantages, it's just question of your taste, but majority of the world uses Windows machines and there are good reasons for that. I personally find Mac OS very limiting and I don't like that, maybe I'm Windows fanboy (which I'm not really am, I don't want to limit myself, Windows for me does everything I need better than any other OS, so it's natural that I say it's best to because it truly is), at least I don't write bullshit and false statements.


The only reason Windows is more common is because of price and availability. You can buy a cruddy, garden-variety PC, and sort of accomplish things with it, for a fraction of the price of a Mac. But if you want a high quality computer, even with Windows, you will end up paying about the same as for a Mac. Look at the Surface Pro or Surface Book, or the Razer Blade laptop, or other name-brand, top of the line computers. They all are priced very similarly to the higher end Macs (ignoring the Mac Pro....) One other thing you get with Windows is a greater variety. For instance, I bought the Surface Pro, because the MacBook Pro only offered me a stupid touch pad... Oh, the other reason Windows has been so popular was piracy. I don't know how much this is a thing today, but it used to be a big deal. I've had people tell me they wouldn't buy a Mac because there wasn't pirated software for it... wow. 

And yes, Macs and Windows, all things being equal, are very comparable in features and options when it comes to software, and capabilities. But to reiterate. Mac is for productivity--getting things done, and Windows is for gaming--playing around. Not that you can't do both on either, but each has different strengths and weaknesses. Right now, I'm a Windows guy... but I'm not a fanboi, in fact, I'm not a fanboi of either. I like to keep my options open (hence why I'm on Windows right now).


----------



## ferroequinologist

The red spirit said:


> It wouldn't be that easy.
> 
> Issues:
> Price will increase a lot for that extra functionality
> Lack of ports on phone-PC hybrid
> Lack of power
> Lack of upgradability
> Lack of easy functionality (like DVD drive in PC)
> It will only be PC once it's docked
> Adapter/splitter madness *intensifies*


Which is one reason why it's never happened.... but i still dream of having one real device--a handheld that scales depending on the extra hardware I attach it to. For instance, slip it into a tablet, and you have a tablet. Slip it into a laptop, it's a laptop; a desktop, it's a desktop. The ports, etc. are all the hardware, not the core brain. That Kangaroo is an interesting device, because the core element could slip into a phone, tablet, laptop and a desktop. Like that... I've been dreaming of something like this since I had my Newtons in the late 90s. 

But here's the problem though... I'm a tool man. I like my tools. I also like multitools--you know, the Leatherman thing, or other things like that. But there's one problem with them. In order to make a tool do multiple things, you have to sacrifice. It is those sacrifices that are the source of all problems. People love zoom lenses on their cameras, but zooms are full of compromises. Use prime lenses if you need the best quality, and don't compromise. 

If you are a mechanic or carpenter, you have multiples of similar tools that seem to all do the same thing--but they are different in little ways. You don't use a 24oz hammer for some things, and a 10oz hammer is useless for roofing. Having the perfect tool for the job makes things so much easier. I used to own a Renault. It was a horrible car for repairing yourself, as it required weird tools--either extra long shafts, or odd-shaped handles--to get places. I tried fixing my car without them, and it was a bear. But when I bit the bullet and bought the tools, life was much, much easier. 

Software and computer hardware is similar. On my Mac, I have a half-a-dozen different word processors and page layout and composition apps. I also have a bunch of different audio apps and graphics apps. Every one has their special niche where they perform best. I prefer to use the best tool for the specific job. The worst tool I own is Microsoft Word. It tries to do so much--everything, in fact--that it does nothing well. It creates horribly ugly text art. It is terrible at page layout. Anybody who as worked much with Word probably recognizes this:

*using microsoft word*
*moves an image a mm to the left
all text and images shift. four new
pages appear. paragraph breaks form
a union. a swarm of commas buzzes at
the window. in the distance, sirens.

I use Word as little as possible, and only as an intermediary to whatever app I'm going to use in the end for publishing. I keep its formatting simple, using only built-in styles that I can later modify in InDesign or whatever I'll use for web publishing. 

So... I'm not at all opposed to having multiple computers, tablets, phones, and/or whatnot. It's just that for me, though, a tablet is the most expendable option of them all... This is where computers like the Surface are filling in a gap. They are a tablet second, but computer first. I can live with that single compromise. 

And yes, everything I write is my own, personal opinion and perspective. Feel free to disagree with me, or think I'm full of it.


----------



## ferroequinologist

PowerShell said:


> How is too risky?
> 
> 
> 
> I don't see why they'd have to scale OSX back. It's literally just make it run in parallel to iOS and only be active when it's docked.


Because Apple never does things half-way. Hacking MacOS into iOS is not how they'd do it. They are most likely to scale iOS up to desktop levels than hack Aqua apps down to iOS, or into a hybrid iOS/MacOS system. That's just not how they operate... That's why. 

It's worth keeping in mind that since they also own the development environment for all development for Mac and iOS, and since it's the same environment, I would be that should they go the scale-up route (or a scale-down route), they would take advantage of that development environment to make it as simple as possible to port, thus making it almost a non-issue... That's how Apple likes to do things.


----------



## The red spirit

ferroequinologist said:


> Most of what you list are system/OS-specific utilities one-trick toys. They aren't general use apps.


So they aren't needed, well ok good for you, I couldn't live without them. 



ferroequinologist said:


> The Mac also has its share of these things, and some of what you listed are not necessary on the Mac because their functionality is baked into the system. I will grant that much of that is hidden in the commandline, but on the other hand, people have written gui front-ends to access most of this as well (again, OS-specific utilities).


iso2god equivalent on Macs doesn't really exist. You can't code on Macs without software. Why you just can't accept true that Macs aren't that able? Either way in your statement it's quite clear that Windows are easier to use than Macs, so it's advantage too.




ferroequinologist said:


> Every system is unique, and builds a repertoire of utilities the people build to "fill in the gaps" that they come across, using the system, and every system is unique, as to what tools are written, because each system is different, and their users are different, and the needs are different. Out of this list, there were two apps you mentioned--Notepad++ and Paint.net. Those are two apps that aren't on the Mac, but just like the apps I mentioned aren't on Windows, there are things that do what these apps do. Macs have their Pixelmater, and we also have BBEdit and TextMate for text editing. If anything, both of those tools are beyond Notepad++.


Much more people gonna miss my listed apps in Macs because Windows is used by many, Mac OS is used by minority. So loss os Notepad++ and Paint.net gonna affect more people.




ferroequinologist said:


> And yes, all of these apps are paid apps (though BBEdit has a free mode which is closer to what Notepad++ offers).


Oh finally Mac OS idealisation ended a bit. Paid is disadvantage.



ferroequinologist said:


> People may complain about them costing, but here's the thing, a good app--a really and truly good app, that has amazing features that are a dream to use--those things don't come freely.


Say that to 7zip, Google Chrome, Audacity, GIMP, Skype, uTorrent, IrfanView, Foobar2000, VLC media player, Adobe acrobat reader, Fraps, MSI afterburner, Nvidia Shadowplay, Blender, Handbrake, Oracle VM virtualbox and other awesome free software. Not all good software must be paid. I almost don't use paid software at all, because free does everything very good for me and what it's not capable of I just pirate (another Mac con).



ferroequinologist said:


> The same is true on Windows. Truly good apps aren't free. And the free apps may be great at some things, but you still pay for that price in their use... complex and arcane menu structure, having to jump through hoops to accomplish simple tasks, etc. and that reminds me of the GIMP.


Like hell Photoshop isn't hard. GIMP's value is much better than Photoshop's even if Photoshop is slightly better.



ferroequinologist said:


> It's on Mac, and I used it before I bought into CreativeCloud (for apps other than Photoshop), but it suffers from these issues. Photoshop, now I'm back using it, reminds me every time what makes it special. It's just there, and works. Pixelmater on the Mac is even more beautiful, and Acorn is also a dream to use.


Seems like something subjective



ferroequinologist said:


> When I said I give you the games, I was conceding that Windows has a huge advantage when it comes to games.


Thank god it wasn't a reference to pedo in a big white van lol, I mean Pedobear is cute!!!



ferroequinologist said:


> But that was my original point!!! Windows is for playing!!! Either playing with games, or modding and tinkering with the hardware and software, trying to squeeze out every last ounce of performance in the most arcane ways... but even then, it's all about gaming, isn't it?


*NO!!!*, it's just good all rounder. It has many advantages over Macs. Many people who mod and tinker with PCs are linux users, Windows just isn't for that.



ferroequinologist said:


> You don't bother doing this stuff for Office or Photoshop, or any other kind of app!!! You just use the apps! The only reason to tinker and mod is to get a higher frame rate at higher complexity and resolution.


And what exactly you can mod, almost nothing, don't spill false statements on me. People use Windows for productivity software (that you mentioned) and it's much cheapear than Mac. Plus you can get much faster custom PC which would just demolish any Mac on Earth. Windows is just good, Mac isn't that better as you think, it really limits users.




ferroequinologist said:


> You don't have to optimize a program for the Mac, because the system does the optimizing.


LOL yeah in mother Russia. Where have you read this stuff, I want to read it to. Maybe I will change my opinion



ferroequinologist said:


> The Mac makes it so you don't have to deal with drivers, or hacks or optimizations. You take it out of the box and use it.


You buy parts, build PC, install Windows, install drivers (or to avoid all those steps, you buy prebuilt PC with preinstalled Windows, but it's not cool way). Is it hard? No, it's not. What modifications and hacks are you talking about? I never had to do something like that. WTF?



ferroequinologist said:


> But this goes back to my original point. Macs are for productivity. If you want to get things done, and don't want to hassle, get a Mac, and be done. But yes, you need to be prepared to pay...


And pay a lot. There are lot of people who don't understand that paying for software is for real, they just pirate all the way. WTF are you saying about windows hassles? I don't find hassles at all. If you ain't dumb, Windows is no pain to use. If you are dumb then you won't really find good OS. Mac OS is bit painful to use because it lacks some utilities that were for Windows and Macs just don't have it and I'm not even talking about lack of your control on Macs. You watched too much of this:





PCs have changed a lot in that time. 



ferroequinologist said:


> If you want to put an app into the Windows app store, it has to be a "universal" app--or one that runs on both phones and desktop. I probably should have just said Windows Store Apps. Lots of new users want to just download from the trusted Windows store.


Windows phone is quite dead thing already and almost no one uses Store anyway.



ferroequinologist said:


> I know that if my parents wanted to buy a Windows computer, I would set their computer up to only allow store apps. But as soon as you do that, you are suddenly faced with far fewer programs to choose from than either the Mac or Linux. This is my point.


Windows just don't have proper software store, it's disadvantage, but there's a lot of good software on net.



ferroequinologist said:


> If you want a consistent Windows experience, you have to buy and download apps only from the App store, and if you do that, you are severely limited in what's available.


NO NO NO!!! You aren't limited to that app store at all for consistent experience at all. Seriously, from where you know that, it's just such false statement that it hurts to read.




ferroequinologist said:


> Otherwise, you are forced out into the dark world of the web... And yes, I know people who aren't super willing to do that. But my point was this, if you limit yourself to Windows store apps, the Mac has a huge advantage over Windows then.


So basically use Mac to full potential and Windows to limited one, it's just like complaining that fork isn't good for eating soups. If you have a tool, you should use it properly.



ferroequinologist said:


> Did you know that when Apple (the company" was "fighting with extinction" it had more money in the bank than just about every other company, not just those in technology--billions in the bank as totally free and open cash to spend if they wanted to... They were never close to extinction as the media portrays it. Probably the closest they ever came was right before Jobs returned.


So? It's their fault for making gimmick products.



ferroequinologist said:


> The only reason Windows is more common is because of price and availability. You can buy a cruddy, garden-variety PC, and sort of accomplish things with it, for a fraction of the price of a Mac.


Not for that only, but for freedom too. You choose all your hardware and it's not overpriced, also Macs never seen AMD cpus... Plz say why exactly Mac OS is better than Windows. 



ferroequinologist said:


> But if you want a high quality computer, even with Windows, you will end up paying about the same as for a Mac.


Only if you don't know how to build it yourself. I'm pretty sure that my PC will survive long. Why? Because I didn't cheap out on PSU and cooling. My parent's PC still works with lag after 12 years and can run pretty modern software, while G4 Macs are obsolete and costed way much more.



ferroequinologist said:


> Look at the Surface Pro or Surface Book, or the Razer Blade laptop, or other name-brand, top of the line computers. They all are priced very similarly to the higher end Macs (ignoring the Mac Pro....) One other thing you get with Windows is a greater variety.


And features, and *insert every single Windows and PC advantage here*



ferroequinologist said:


> For instance, I bought the Surface Pro, because the MacBook Pro only offered me a stupid touch pad... Oh, the other reason Windows has been so popular was piracy. I don't know how much this is a thing today, but it used to be a big deal. I've had people tell me they wouldn't buy a Mac because there wasn't pirated software for it... wow.


Russia, Lithuania, Brazil, South America, India is full of piracy, it's still a big thing today. That's important. Why da hell we sould pay for software if we gonna use it once in lifetime? or just to try it out? or we don't feel that developer deserved money? or developer is chargig too much for it? or they don't offer Demo? or whole country is so fucked up that prices are way too damn big? or we just don't give a fuck?



ferroequinologist said:


> And yes, Macs and Windows, all things being equal, are very comparable in features and options when it comes to software, and capabilities.


I'm restoring my hope in you.



ferroequinologist said:


> But to reiterate. Mac is for productivity--getting things done, and Windows is for gaming--playing around.


lost hope again :dry:



ferroequinologist said:


> Not that you can't do both on either, but each has different strengths and weaknesses. Right now, I'm a Windows guy... but I'm not a fanboi, in fact, I'm not a fanboi of either. I like to keep my options open (hence why I'm on Windows right now).


You are Mac fanboy, that's it.


----------



## The red spirit

ferroequinologist said:


> Because Apple never does things half-way


They almost always do that


----------



## Lakshmi Lovita

What is the best sub $150 tablet?


----------



## ferroequinologist

Lakshmi Lovita said:


> What is the best sub $150 tablet?


If you live in the States, or wherever the Amazon Fire tablets are available, probably those. Also, if you live in the States, go to walmart.com and search for RCA tablet. There are a few 10" and 11" RCA Windows tablets for between $100 and $150. I've got a Cambio. It's not the greatest, but it did the job I needed. RCA also has some Android tablets, some of which are just like their Windows counterparts, but running Android. You may be able to get these also on Amazon, but it's been a year, so my memory is a bit weak on this point.

But probably the best tablets in this price range are the Amazon Fire tablets, because they offset some of the cost with ads, and buy-in onto their network, so you can get slightly better quality for less money. But they all run Android. If you want Windows, then probably those RCA tablets are as good as you'll get.

But honestly, when you go this cheap, you will have issues, regardless--but those Fire tablets are probably the safest bet...


----------



## ae1905

engadget.com *Apple is building its own GPU for the iPhone and iPad*


When Apple started making the iPhone, it used a generic, Samsung-made ARM system that was paired with a PowerVR GPU. Over time, Apple began crafting more and more of its own silicon, thanks to its purchase of various chip design firms. These days, the PowerVR chip on the A10 Fusion is one of very few components that Apple didn't have entire control over.

The decision to dump Imagination was probably inevitable given the company's trend towards control, but there may be another story here. Third-party analysts The Linley Group spotted that the iPhone 7 used the same PowerVR GT7600 GPU that was used for the iPhone 6S. That piece of silicon, while powerful, couldn't sustain its performance for very long and so throttles the component to avoid overheating.

Apple's unsentimentally when it comes to ditching chip makers when they can't meet performance targets is well-known. After all, the company ditched PowerPC CPUs because -- so the legend goes -- Intel's X86 silicon was getting faster while IBM and Motorola dragged their feet.

It's clearly a massive blow for Imagination, which has already said that it's planning to take the matter to the courts. After all, building a graphics platform from scratch is likely to involve using technology that other companies like Imagination has already patented. The famously-secretive Apple is also not going to look favorably upon one of its suppliers going public with this licensing dispute.

Imagination shares down 67% after end of agreement with Apple pic.twitter.com/jBazTt6IjT
— Francisco Jeronimo (@fjeronimo) April 3, 2017
​As _TechCrunch_ explains, the split could spell doom for Imagination, since it relies upon Apple for the bulk of its cash. Even worse, is that the news has already caused Imagination's stock to freefall, dropping between 60 and 70 percent in the last few hours.


----------



## ae1905

nice looking machine but $999 is too expensive for a school computer...I expect oems will come out with cheaper options to compete with chromebooks


----------



## PowerShell

I might need to see how well the iPad does offline dictation (like the Mac can). That might help me write blog entries as I drive and also sort through videos. I have a ton of dead time while driving and if I can do everything hands free, I could reclaim that dead time.


----------



## ae1905

*Windows 10 ARM is less locked down than Windows 10 S (supports non-Store Win32 apps)*

liliputing.com 


[HR][/HR] 05/11/2017 at 4:00 PM by Brad Linder 6 Comments 

Microsoft has two new versions of Windows 10 on the way. Windows 10 S is a streamlined version of Windows that will only run software downloaded from the Windows Store in order to improve security, performance, and the software update process. Designed with the education market in mind, it will also be available for mainstream users, and Windows 10 S is the operating system that will ship on the upcoming Surface Laptop… although you can upgrade to Windows 10 Pro if you find the stripped down operating system too restrictive.

But you know what else isn’t particularly stripped down? The new version of Windows 10 designed to run on ARM-based processors.








First announced last year, Microsoft provided an update on Windows 10 ARM at the MS Build developer conference today. And the company confirmed that not only would Windows 10 ARM be able to run legacy apps developed for computers with x86 processors… but you’d be able to just download any old Win32 app from the internet, install it, and run it on a computer running Windows 10 ARM.

In other words, Windows 10 S runs on devices with ARM or x86 processors, but only supports Windows Store apps. Windows 10 ARM only runs on devices with ARM chips… but supports apps from pretty much any source.

Developers don’t need to convert their software in any way, because Windows 10 ARM includes a built-in emulation layer that allows Win32 apps to run on an ARM-powered system.
But Microsoft demonstrated how you could download a common program like 7zip from the internet and simply install it on a device with a Qualcomm Snapdragon 835 processor.








Of course, developers can also package software optimized for ARM as Universal Windows Platform apps for distribution in the Windows Store. But they don’t necessarily have to.
Qualcomm’s Snapdragon 835 chip is expected to be one of the first to support Windows 10 on ARM, and while it’s Qualcomm’s most powerful mobile processor to date, it’s still not exactly a speed demon by PC standards. Like any PC with a relatively slow processor, systems with ARM chips will probably be unable to compete with the machines featuring the latest high-end Intel or AMD processors when it comes to gaming or other complex tasks like video rendering.








But devices with this sort of chip get many of the benefits of ARM-based processors including relatively low power consumption and integrated wireless connectivity features. That could made ARM-based systems a good choice for hybrid devices like 2-in-1 tablets… or maybe even 2-in-1 smartphones that also offer PC-like functionality when docked to a mouse, keyboard, and display.


----------



## ae1905




----------



## The red spirit

@ae1905 Vista is better than 10. Not joking here. I did Vista experiment http://personalitycafe.com/isfp-forum-artists/57370-isfp-confessions-thread-171.html. I'm using it now, even if I have 10.


----------



## Eefje

> do you own a tablet?...do you use it?...with phones becoming bigger and laptops lighter, do you think tablets have a future?...would you buy an ipad for $329?


I don't own any, no. So I don't use any. 

as for the other questions: I'll answer them also starting from my viewpoint as a product designer and developer with a strong basis in economics/marketing  (Who would have thought that I'd get such a delicious question?? )

*Well first off*: the market for tablets is gradually getting smaller and saturated. I know y'all probably can't read Dutch but you can check some charts here: https://tweakers.net/reviews/4747/de-opvallende-teruggang-van-tablets.html The first green line represents the growth in tablet deliveries, the second one represents how many Dutch people claim to have a tablet. 
As you can see it can tell us two things: 
- Deliveries are decreasing, thus is the demand from the market.
- Most people already have a tablet, thus the market is becoming saturated.

Whilst it is normal that markets become saturated and production decreases, the chance it will stop decreasing and stagnate is probably a questionable chance for tablets. Most people tend to think that tablets are something in between a smartphone and a laptop. Because technology is developing itself, being able to make quality smartphones for a relatively small price (Oneplus One,... etc) the chance that it is seen as a substitute is getting higher. There's also a second product steadily taking a substitute position: small, thin and lightweight laptops (surface pro from windows, etc). With two substitutes endangering the position of the tablet in the market, the chance that it will hold its popularity is quite small.

I think that tablets are either going to focus on a niche market or are going to be a bit "more" than a smartphone or small, thin laptop. Otherwise the trend just might fade out. The IPad pro is -for example - a good product for designers/creatives. You can easily use a digital drawing program, do crazy stuff with it while it's still intuitive. It replaces a laptop + wacom tablet. 

*Second off:* Tablets, computers and smartphones use a lot of materials that are quite hard to get and/or recycle. A lot of rare earth metals are being thrown away, and from my viewpoint I think that there will be a time where we hit a wall; or when we will see the wall from afar and that by higher prices in earth metals etc. some products simply will dissapear. People will first buy a smartphone (or laptop if it's really needed in their case), then laptop, then tablet. Tablet is going to fall off first. 

Or  maybe that's also an opportunity for companies to jump onto! But, personally, I think they'd rather invest in a thin, small and lightweight notebook rather than a tablet.

*Third off: * a market is still a market and can't be a 100% predicted. But we're sure of one thing: tablets are losing popularity!

Edit: also, I just wrote this in 15 minutes or so, I didn't do much research so I am probably missing some factors. But I think I mentioned the biggest ones.

Edit 2: They are also looking into another way to make chips without using rare earth metals. But the prices will still rise to some extent - it still will be a factor (IF current chips are replaced by chips without rare earth metals)


----------



## ae1905

Eefje said:


> I don't own any, no. So I don't use any.
> 
> as for the other questions: I'll answer them also starting from my viewpoint as a product designer and developer with a strong basis in economics/marketing  (Who would have thought that I'd get such a delicious question?? )
> 
> *Well first off*: the market for tablets is gradually getting smaller and saturated. I know y'all probably can't read Dutch but you can check some charts here: https://tweakers.net/reviews/4747/de-opvallende-teruggang-van-tablets.html The first green line represents the growth in tablet deliveries, the second one represents how many Dutch people claim to have a tablet.
> As you can see it can tell us two things:
> - Deliveries are decreasing, thus is the demand from the market.
> - Most people already have a tablet, thus the market is becoming saturated.
> 
> Whilst it is normal that markets become saturated and production decreases, the chance it will stop decreasing and stagnate is probably a questionable chance for tablets. Most people tend to think that tablets are something in between a smartphone and a laptop. Because technology is developing itself, being able to make quality smartphones for a relatively small price (Oneplus One,... etc) the chance that it is seen as a substitute is getting higher. There's also a second product steadily taking a substitute position: small, thin and lightweight laptops (surface pro from windows, etc). With two substitutes endangering the position of the tablet in the market, the chance that it will hold its popularity is quite small.
> 
> I think that tablets are either going to focus on a niche market or are going to be a bit "more" than a smartphone or small, thin laptop. Otherwise the trend just might fade out. The IPad pro is -for example - a good product for designers/creatives. You can easily use a digital drawing program, do crazy stuff with it while it's still intuitive. It replaces a laptop + wacom tablet.
> 
> *Second off:* Tablets, computers and smartphones use a lot of materials that are quite hard to get and/or recycle. A lot of rare earth metals are being thrown away, and from my viewpoint I think that there will be a time where we hit a wall; or when we will see the wall from afar and that by higher prices in earth metals etc. some products simply will dissapear. People will first buy a smartphone (or laptop if it's really needed in their case), then laptop, then tablet. Tablet is going to fall off first.
> 
> Or  maybe that's also an opportunity for companies to jump onto! But, personally, I think they'd rather invest in a thin, small and lightweight notebook rather than a tablet.
> 
> *Third off: * a market is still a market and can't be a 100% predicted. But we're sure of one thing: tablets are losing popularity!
> 
> Edit: also, I just wrote this in 15 minutes or so, I didn't do much research so I am probably missing some factors. But I think I mentioned the biggest ones.
> 
> Edit 2: They are also looking into another way to make chips without using rare earth metals. But the prices will still rise to some extent - it still will be a factor (IF current chips are replaced by chips without rare earth metals)


interesting points...another way to look at the trends is to recognize that people use phones with large screens and laptops with touchscreens in the much same ways they use tablets...so a case can be made that the tablet _form factor_, if not tablets themselves, is actually more popular than ever...indeed, much of the innovation you see today in these spaces lies in replicating the tablet experience (with bigger phones and 2-in-1 laptops)...so the tablet as a way of interacting with a computer is not about to disappear anytime soon...tablets themselves, however, will probably continue to be relegated to market niches, such as older people and children who find tablets more useful and easier to use...these niches can be quite healthy, however, as there will continue to be many potential consumers, including in the education market....for everyone else, though, the current trends will persist and tablets will continue to be replaced by phones and laptops, especially as augmented reality makes it possible to fully replicate and even enhance the tablet experience on other devices

so, ironically, at the end of the day, we may find ourselves interacting more with devices augmented to be tablet-like, even as actual physical tablets become less common


----------



## Eefje

@ae1905 yes, niches are very healthy to focus on. There are a lot of examples that solely focus on niche and still get their business done


----------



## vince95

I have an ancient (1st-Gen) iPad and a Samsung tablet from a few years ago... I use neither... I prefer either my Galaxy S7 smartphone or either of my MacBooks (an older Air or a newer Pro). Tablets are just too hard to type on for me and I'm a fast typer, so the processor or whatever on a tablet can't keep up with how fast I type. But I'm not surprised that people are buying tablets, especially seniors, who don't like computers or want to learn, but like to stay in touch with their kids and grandkids. I know my grandmother has a tablet and a smartphone, mostly so she can keep in touch with my dad and my sister and I, and we can send her pictures and stuff like that.


----------



## PowerShell

vince95 said:


> Tablets are just too hard to type on for me and I'm a fast typer, so the processor or whatever on a tablet can't keep up with how fast I type. But I'm not surprised that people are buying tablets, especially seniors, who don't like computers or want to learn, but like to stay in touch with their kids and grandkids. I know my grandmother has a tablet and a smartphone, mostly so she can keep in touch with my dad and my sister and I, and we can send her pictures and stuff like that.


Desktops and laptops are for content producers. Tablets and phone are for content consumers. That's really where the divide is. If you're doing any sort of typing where the processor can't keep up (I didn't even think this was possible in these days), I'm assuming you're doing a lot more creating than consuming.


----------



## zynthaxx

vince95 said:


> I'm a fast typer, so the processor or whatever on a tablet can't keep up with how fast I type


That I simply don't believe in. Possibly the typing software you used was too bloated for the tablet you used. But otherwise, yes, as @PowerShell said, if you have a choice at all, a contemporary laptop is usually a better tool for content creation than a same-gen tablet.


----------



## PowerShell

zynthaxx said:


> That I simply don't believe in. Possibly the typing software you used was too bloated for the tablet you used. But otherwise, yes, as @*PowerShell* said, if you have a choice at all, a contemporary laptop is usually a better tool for content creation than a same-gen tablet.


It had to be bloated software. The last time computers were truly that slow was the 80's.


----------



## ae1905




----------



## ae1905




----------



## ae1905




----------



## ae1905




----------



## ae1905




----------



## ae1905




----------



## ae1905

ipad is still primariy a media consumption device, only now with ios 11 it can do light productivity...if I want a device to watch youtube and listen to podcasts _and _do a little productivity on the side an ipad pro might be an ideal computer (provided ios has the apps I need)...but if productivity is more important than watching videos, a laptop would still be my first choice


----------



## Grandmaster Yoda

PowerShell said:


> It had to be bloated software. The last time computers were truly that slow was the 80's.


The original iPad and the iPod touch 4th generation both had 256MB of RAM but were updated with firmware that completely sucked up what little memory they had. I used the iPad before it just "disappeared" from my house, and it was completely unsustainable. It couldn't hold up much of any apps. Safari would often crash to point that I switched to alternate browser that was built for iOS 4. My iPod touch could have as little 11MB of free memory when browsing PerC, at which point the app would just crash. When memory gets really low on these devices, they tend freeze and have input lag like you've never seen. I can type something into the search bar, but the keyboard popups, sounds and text input wouldn't appear until a second or two later. I would highly advise against trying to play music along side your browser with either of these devices because that would take up more memory. Sometimes you can figure out a way to downgrade your early iDevices which does help with performance, but removes a lot of compatibility.

You also can't forget the iPhone 4 on iOS 7 and the iPhone 4s on iOS 9. Instead of those crashes from older devices, the entire interface would lag everywhere. I don't know how people used those. Planned obsolescence real or not, these devices don't work after these updates.

Android tablets? iDevices tend to be the top of the stack when they are released, I can't imagine a cheap old android thing doing any better. But I don't know much about android besides my personal extreme with my Droid Turbo. Which basically was a nice way to fry your hands off if you left the clock speeds unmodified. Naturally limiting the maximum clock speed would cause things to lag. That was another top tier device, except it was always garbage.


----------



## ae1905

*A top Apple executive unwittingly provided a perfect explanation for why the iPad is a bad computer replacement (AAPL)*


----------



## ae1905

*Windows 10 is Adding SwiftKey, Laying the Groundwork For Dual-Screen Tablets*


----------



## ae1905




----------



## ae1905

*Xiaomi's latest tablet offers LTE on the cheap*


----------



## Tropes

ae1905 said:


>





ae1905 said:


> *Lenovo's new Yoga Book actually has dual screens*


I am skeptical about these. 

Unless you get haptic feedback just right, enough so that you don't have to look at the keyboard, and it's not clear that either ASUS or Lenovo is bothering with such (even if Lenovo tried doing it in its previous concept prototype), then a screen keyboard doesn't make for a very productive user experience.

Meanwhile, Samsung has had at least 5 years of trying to work out the kinks of a connected duel screen for a phone that is romured to be anounced early 2019, and if it can get it to work, could easily be the first one to bring it to it's laptop line. A connected duel screen based on a flexible binding wouldn't on it's own fix the problems of a virtual keyboard or make it accessible for work purposes, but it would at least make the duel screen meaningful for better display purposes, carrying a wide screen tv everywhere you go.


----------



## The red spirit

Genghis Kohen said:


> I am skeptical about these.
> 
> Unless you get haptic feedback just right, enough so that you don't have to look at the keyboard, and it's not clear that either ASUS or Lenovo is bothering with such (even if Lenovo tried doing it in its previous concept prototype), then a screen keyboard doesn't make for a very productive user experience.
> 
> Meanwhile, Samsung has had at least 5 years of trying to work out the kinks of a connected duel screen for a phone that is romured to be anounced early 2019, and if it can get it to work, could easily be the first one to bring it to it's laptop line. A connected duel screen based on a flexible binding wouldn't on it's own fix the problems of a virtual keyboard or make it accessible for work purposes, but it would at least make the duel screen meaningful for better display purposes, carrying a wide screen tv everywhere you go.


Touch keyboards are always the worst.


----------



## ae1905

Genghis Kohen said:


> I am skeptical about these.
> 
> Unless you get haptic feedback just right, enough so that you don't have to look at the keyboard, and it's not clear that either ASUS or Lenovo is bothering with such (even if Lenovo tried doing it in its previous concept prototype), then a screen keyboard doesn't make for a very productive user experience.



I'm pretty sure lenovo's old yoga book had haptic feedback so it's something they'll probably improve on in the next iteration of the product


----------



## Tropes

ae1905 said:


> I'm pretty sure lenovo's old yoga book had haptic feedback so it's something they'll probably improve on in the next iteration of the product


One would hope so, but it's not uncommon for companies to roll back a lot of features between concept and commercial iterations. Until they outright say that in a detailed release, don't count on it being there.



The red spirit said:


> Touch keyboards are always the worst.


Close, but not quite. They are bad, but the absolute worst are "laser keyboards":










You can't feel the keys, your fingers keep blocking the light so most of the time you can't see your keys, and there is an annoying delay every time it senses a "keystroke", which is not every time you actually press.


----------



## ae1905

Genghis Kohen said:


> One would hope so, but it's not uncommon for companies to roll back a lot of features between concept and commercial iterations. Until they outright say that in a detailed release, don't count on it being there.



I checked...the old yoga book had haptic feedback...lenovo's especially good at incorporating user feedback--eg, its thinkpads...the screen keyboard will have some kind of mechanical feedback...it's something users are accustomed to and will expect


----------



## Tropes

ae1905 said:


> I checked...the old yoga book had haptic feedback...lenovo's especially good at incorporating user feedback--eg, its thinkpads...the screen keyboard will have some kind of mechanical feedback...it's something users are accustomed to and will expect


The question is mostly about getting it right. Judging by the reviews, largely positive reviews, the haptic keyboard wasn't very good.

* *






















That could mean they would listen to users and get it better with more localized feedback, or it could mean they would listen to users and get rid of it. We will see.


----------



## ae1905

*Microsoft might still be working on a pocket-sized Surface*


----------



## Mick Travis

I like my gen 2 Fire, but my 2n1 is where it's at.


----------



## ae1905

ae1905 said:


> *Microsoft might still be working on a pocket-sized Surface*


*Microsoft Details Secret 'Pocketable' Surface Device*


Microsoft's mysterious new Surface device, codenamed Andromeda, that's been in development for the past two years is going to be pocketable, reports The Verge. The company says it will create a "new and disruptive" device category to influence the overall Surface roadmap and blur the lines between what's considered PC and mobile. From the report: "It's a new pocketable Surface device form factor that brings together innovative new hardware and software experiences to create a truly personal and versatile computing experience," is exactly how Microsoft describes the device internally. The Andromeda device is still being developed in secrecy inside Microsoft, with a wraparound display that bridges the gap of the hinge when it's fully opened. We understand current engineering samples of the pocketable Surface look identical to the 3D concept created by David Breyer. Microsoft has also been experimenting with stylus input for Andromeda, so that the device can fold over like a book and a pen can be used to capture digital ink. Microsoft is also experimenting with ARM processors inside prototype Andromeda devices. Microsoft views Andromeda as a unique response to its failures with Windows Phone devices. "It will blur the lines between mobile and stationary computing," reads one internal document describing the device. Microsoft is tentatively planning to release Andromeda in 2018, with similar devices from some of Microsoft's top OEMs to "follow afterwards."


----------



## ae1905




----------



## Grandmaster Yoda

The cheap iPad looks like an iPhone 2G.


----------



## zynthaxx

Grandmaster Yoda said:


> The cheap iPad looks like an iPhone 2G.


The camera is a lot less prominent, but yes, the form language is very similar; at least viewed from straight ahead.


----------



## Grandmaster Yoda

zynthaxx said:


> The camera is a lot less prominent, but yes, the form language is very similar; at least viewed from straight ahead.


The combination of the black area and the silver back give it an archaic look to me. I preferred the full black plastic of the iPhone 3G. It was interesting choice.


----------



## ae1905




----------



## ae1905

*Microsoft's Panos Panay Says Company is Exploring Several New Form Factors in Surface Category, But a Phone Isn't One of Them*


----------



## Mick Travis




----------



## ae1905




----------



## ae1905

More foldable displays are coming, now from LG and Lenovo


----------



## The red spirit

ae1905 said:


> More foldable displays are coming, now from LG and Lenovo


That's some old news. LG has been making them since 2007, if not earlier.


----------



## ae1905

ae1905 said:


>





*Huawei is working on a foldable 5G smartphone*


----------



## ae1905

*Samsung Says It's Working On Foldable Laptop Displays*


----------



## ae1905

*Latest Chrome OS update includes a redesigned tablet interface*


----------



## ae1905




----------



## ae1905

*New iPads Pros pack larger displays thanks to Face ID*


----------



## ae1905

^


the usb-c port is the biggest change, imo, as you'll be able to connect your ipad to a monitor and keyboard and use the tablet more as a desktop computer


now apple just needs to integrate ios and mac os and its vision of a do-it-all tablet will be realized!




btw, the a12x cpu on the new ipad pro is reportedly more powerful than the most powerful intel mobile cpu!


it's time apple gives its ipads software that can push its cpus


----------



## ae1905




----------



## ae1905

^


ipad pro can be an effective computer for use in the field...its form factor is far more friendly than laptops for mobile use-cases, like workers walking around who need to use a computer...but the ios software has to work with companies' software, which will probably be windows or linux based...so apple has to enable more integration, or at least more interoperability, of its mobile platform with desktop and cloud platforms to realize the ipad's potential


----------



## ae1905

maxed-out 12.9" ipad pro is $1749!


way too much for a media consumption device...apple had better have some useful apps to justify the price tag


----------



## ae1905

*The new iPad Pro vs. the competition: Working hard*


----------



## zynthaxx

ae1905 said:


> maxed-out 12.9" ipad pro is $1749!
> 
> 
> way too much for a media consumption device...apple had better have some useful apps to justify the price tag


Hence the "Pro" suffix in the name: In Apple terms it has historically meant "you probably don't need to buy this product unless you make money from using it."

As it looks, they seem to be making friends with software houses that will turn the iPad Pros into actual workhorses for some kinds of tasks. We are seeing a transformation where some kinds of applications are re-thought into a touch-centric (or Pencil-based) workflow paradigm.

Steve's old adage about pointing at a vertical screen behind your keyboard still holds, though: For serious text-based work I would love to have the keyboard complemented by a trackpad. Selecting text using the finger-on-screen method is so much more frustrating than using a regular pointing device, and especially if some of your work happens in terminal emulators, you will want to select and copy text that you can't reach using only the arrow and modifier keys (which otherwise provide excellent precision and speed).


----------



## ae1905

zynthaxx said:


> Hence the "Pro" suffix in the name: In Apple terms it has historically meant "you probably don't need to buy this product unless you make money from using it."
> 
> As it looks, they seem to be making friends with software houses that will turn the iPad Pros into actual workhorses for some kinds of tasks. We are seeing a transformation where some kinds of applications are re-thought into a touch-centric (or Pencil-based) workflow paradigm.
> 
> Steve's old adage about pointing at a vertical screen behind your keyboard still holds, though: For serious text-based work I would love to have the keyboard complemented by a trackpad. Selecting text using the finger-on-screen method is so much more frustrating than using a regular pointing device, and especially if some of your work happens in terminal emulators, you will want to select and copy text that you can't reach using only the arrow and modifier keys (which otherwise provide excellent precision and speed).





voice text input


google assistant already does a good job recognizing spoken words


----------



## zynthaxx

ae1905 said:


> voice text input
> google assistant already does a good job recognizing spoken words


If I became a double amputee or blind or something, that would probably be one of the things I tried, but really: Even for a native English speaker, getting a voice recognition system to parse computer code correctly (whether in a programming language or in a shell environment) would likely be a larger hurdle than simply retraining to a more managerial/less hands-on role. Those tasks would likely be easier to perform using only an iPad too.


----------



## ae1905

zynthaxx said:


> If I became a double amputee or blind or something, that would probably be one of the things I tried, but really: Even for a native English speaker, getting a voice recognition system to parse computer code correctly (whether in a programming language or in a shell environment) would likely be a larger hurdle than simply retraining to a more managerial/less hands-on role. Those tasks would likely be easier to perform using only an iPad too.




if you want a keyboard, just use a laptop (eg, a 2-in-1)...keyboards/laptops are only useful when you are stationary and can type


otoh, if you want a device you can use while you're moving about, use a tablet...there are plenty of applications in industry where a true mobile computer can be useful...that's where voice input would work better than typing on a screen


----------



## The red spirit

zynthaxx said:


> Hence the "Pro" suffix in the name: In Apple terms it has historically meant "you probably don't need to buy this product unless you make money from using it."


Nah, it stands for professional ripoff.


----------



## ae1905




----------



## ae1905




----------



## ae1905

New iPad Pro benchmarks are very close to the 2018 15-inch MacBook Pro








Geekbench tests put the new 1TB iPad Pro in sight of the $3,000 15-inch MacBook Pro's single core and multi-core speed, which may restart the conversation about Macs with ARM chips in the future.


----------



## zynthaxx

ae1905 said:


> New iPad Pro benchmarks are very close to the 2018 15-inch MacBook Pro
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Geekbench tests put the new 1TB iPad Pro in sight of the $3,000 15-inch MacBook Pro's single core and multi-core speed, which may restart the conversation about Macs with ARM chips in the future.


For most of my purposes I actually wouldn't mind. The two main questions, of course, a) is whether they have (or will have) something ARM based that can compete directly with Xeon CPUs in the high-end workstation tier, and b) whether they'll be able to retain those users who need to be able to run Windows on their computers. 

For me personally, the latter was what made the Mac viable at work in the first place, even though I frankly haven't had an actual need to boot Windows in several years on my main machine. Microsoft has shown time and again that they can't homogenise the devs working on their platform, so even if creating ARM binaries on the Mac was only a checkbox away in Xcode, it could take decades before the last piece of x86-only software was compiled for Windows.
Emulators and API translators are one way to go, of course, but the main question is whether they'll be efficient enough to make people with these needs to choose an ARM Mac over a regular HP workstation if given a choice...


----------



## ae1905

*iPad Pro (2018) preview: Early signs point to a powerhouse with potential*


----------



## ae1905

*Tablet Shipments Decline For 16th Straight Quarter*


----------



## ae1905

*Samsung to reveal foldable phone features this week*


----------



## ae1905

https://www.androidauthority.com/royole-flexpai-foldable-phone-review-922141/


----------



## ae1905

*iPad Pro 12.9 review (2018): The future of computing?*


----------



## ae1905

*Barnes & Noble's latest Nook tablet can turn into a makeshift laptop*


----------



## ae1905




----------



## ae1905

db


----------



## ae1905




----------



## ae1905




----------



## ae1905

*Apple Music will finally support Android tablets*


----------



## ae1905




----------



## The red spirit

ae1905 said:


>


What a rubbish video. There have been names for those things like long time ago:
2 in 1
hybrid
tablet with keyboard
netbook?

Some fake news here.

I left a dislike not only for fake definition, but also for breaking laptop. It's just wasteful


----------



## ae1905




----------



## ae1905

*Wirecutter's best deals: Save $100 on Apple's 9.7-inch iPad (6th Gen)*


----------



## ae1905

*Xiaomi might build a three-panel foldable phone*


----------



## ae1905

*ASUS unveils its first Chrome OS tablet*


----------



## ae1905

*Apple explains iPad Pro build process in response to bending concerns*


----------

