# The dark side of Ne



## Pizal (Jul 8, 2011)

I was going to post this on the ENFP forums, but I thought I could get a better perspective from the other heavy Ne users out there. 

This is more of a question that I suspect the answer to be "Yes" to. 

"Does Ne have a dark side?" 

This may be based on ignorance, but when reading about Ne it is usually described as wonderful looking at all the possiblities of life. One gets the picture of a little girl who is full of life skipping through a field of daisy with a cloudless sky behind her. So are there clouds in that sky? 
Ne explores possiblities, but many possiblities are not in fact good. I could see how someone who uses Ne to the point where it is out of control would be a hypocondriac wanting to be tested for everything from Cancer to a cold because of minor symptoms. Or if a loved one is out think of all the things that COULD happen to them. Ne may not always be that chipper. 

Now this may be a total misunderstanding of what Ne does, but in my own experience controling what possiblities to look at can be a problem. What do you other Ne users think?


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## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

You're actually dead right about the hypochondriac possibility. Inferior Si tends to rear it's ugly head with hypochondriasis in Ne doms when they fall into "grip" episodes, according to Naomi Quenk's book dealing with this.


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## MuChApArAdOx (Jan 24, 2011)

JungyesMBTIno said:


> You're actually dead right about the hypochondriac possibility. Inferior Si tends to rear it's ugly head with hypochondriasis in Ne doms when they fall into "grip" episodes, according to Naomi Quenk's book dealing with this.


Can you go more into detail about Si. I don't have a firm grip on this function. I suspect it comes out in trouble times ? I don't relate it with me, or when /how/ why i use it. What is grip episodes ? Do you mean when we become upset or make rash decisions ? Sorry, i don't now how to explain how i see it in my mind. I have a feeling whenever i get myself into some sort of confrontation that Si is playing a part of that. It feels ugly, is Si an ugly function :/ IDK, Yes, no ? helps.


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## MuChApArAdOx (Jan 24, 2011)

Pizal said:


> I was going to post this on the ENFP forums, but I thought I could get a better perspective from the other heavy Ne users out there.
> 
> This is more of a question that I suspect the answer to be "Yes" to.
> 
> ...


I would think that if we look at all the possibilities, we also find ourselves in dark places. It wouldn't be the first time i played out difference scenario's in my mind. Some are ugly, morbid, and even unrealistic. What if, that seems to play the biggest role. And if* what i*f can lead to A, it can lead all the way to Z. I try and focus on the positive, best outcomes for everything , although my Ne can take over and lead to dark places, often. I don't think its a bad thing either, sometimes going to a dark place can tune us in on the bigger picture, because i've had times that my dark thoughts became reality too.


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## Alpengeist19 (Feb 28, 2012)

Pizal said:


> Ne explores possiblities, but many possiblities are not in fact good.


That's most definitely correct. My wild imagination has taken a liking to exploring the worst case scenario, and I am often led to believe it because when I find evidence, my Ti decides that this scenario is valid.


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## valentine (Feb 25, 2009)

It's not just extroverted intuition, but intuition in general that can lead to hypochondria (or so Jung believed) .


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## dejavu (Jun 23, 2010)

Pizal said:


> "Does Ne have a dark side?"
> 
> This may be based on ignorance, but when reading about Ne it is usually described as wonderful looking at all the possiblities of life. One gets the picture of a little girl who is full of life skipping through a field of daisy with a cloudless sky behind her. So are there clouds in that sky?
> Ne explores possiblities, but many possiblities are not in fact good. I could see how someone who uses Ne to the point where it is out of control would be a hypocondriac wanting to be tested for everything from Cancer to a cold because of minor symptoms. Or if a loved one is out think of all the things that COULD happen to them. Ne may not always be that chipper.
> ...


I fall into the hypochondriac thing if I'm not careful. I think it comes with not being aware of the body and what is usual for it (lack of Se?) and from coming up with terrible possibilities. For me, this tends to happen when I am depressed.

I remember being a kid and my parents would go out, and I'd get caught up thinking about possible scenarios that could have happened and how they might have died. It would get so in-depth that it felt real, until I snapped out of the thinking. It's crazy stuff. Might have just been my overactive imagination, though.

One thing I'm curious about is the inferior Ne in Si-doms. I've read that they have a capacity for negative Ne usage. Something about getting into a cycle of seeing only negative possibilities, and being unable to see the positive possibilities. I wonder where the separation is between that and what goes on with Ne-doms.


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## Lozan (Mar 10, 2012)

Ne definitely has its shortfalls. Among other things, Ne will get so caught up in looking through all the possibilities (and ways to address them) that it sometime gets in the way of actually getting stuff done. Sometimes, I'd like to be able to start a conversation without thinking about all the ways my statements could be misinterpreted / misunderstood.


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## zallla (Oct 11, 2011)

Pizal said:


> "Does Ne have a dark side?"


Great observation. I guess Ne does have its dark side too. At times I have even been hypochondriac or at least thought I'm having some disease when I did not. You can check out my thread about this issue here.

Hypochondria is not the only dark issue related to Ne in my life. I guess part of the dark side and all the possibilities is the fact that my attention span is pretty short. I have a huge tendency to not finish what I start. Well, I'm also Seven but anyway. It sounds cool to see all the possibilities but becomes not so cool when you jump between issues and never focus long enough for one of them to actually finish it.



JungyesMBTIno said:


> You're actually dead right about the hypochondriac possibility. Inferior Si tends to rear it's ugly head with hypochondriasis in Ne doms when they fall into "grip" episodes, according to Naomi Quenk's book dealing with this.


Oh, thanks for that! Would be interesting to read it...



dejavu said:


> One thing I'm curious about is the inferior Ne in Si-doms. I've read that they have a capacity for negative Ne usage. Something about getting into a cycle of seeing only negative possibilities, and being unable to see the positive possibilities. I wonder where the separation is between that and what goes on with Ne-doms.


I am not sure of my SO's type but I have thought of ISTJ. And he does use _Ne_ in that fashion... He is a Six and maybe that is related to this but he can think of millions of _negative_ outcomes and worry about them and make me crazy! His subjects are a lot more related to the everyday life, for example if there is a chance that we pay rent a bit late (yeah yeah I'm forgetful), he will develop worst-case scenarios that we will have to move or something absurd... xD Dominating _Si_ and 4th _Ne_...?

Edit: @LiquidLight, what you told was the thing I was thinking about my SO, that does make sense....


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## LiquidLight (Oct 14, 2011)

I don't think the Ne-dom would generally see Ne as having a downside, that's much, much more a Si-dom thing (who basically is anchored to their Inferior Ne). Remember the dominant function is your 'hero' function, so people will tend to rely on that function (even if it leads them astray). You also have to remember that your dominant function also has the benefit of having (at least) two other functions to help it out, so the Ne-dom also has judgment to help manage their intuitions, something the Si-dom doesn't have (as Ne is their inferior function and largely not under the control of the other functions). So there really isn't a terrible downside to being a Ne-dom, though there is probably one to being a Ne-tert or Ne-inferior.

The downside of Ne is most exemplified in Si-doms whose constant negative possibilities (think of Ne branching out and exploring new things, but all negative) basically is what gives them the stereotype of only liking to stick to what they know. MBTI says that this is because of Si, but in SJs its really because of their tert or Inferior Ne which is generally going to manifest itself much more negatively than it would for a Ne-dom or aux. Introverted Sensing (which is just allowing your own perceptions to take precedent over the actual qualities of an experience) is a more comfortable perspective. Because, for Si types, perception is reality (as it is_ introverted_ meaning each Si-dom/aux's perception will be influenced more from whatever ideas, experiences, etc., are in your own head rather than something external) Ne would stand in opposition to this, constantly presenting new ways of seeing things. Ne is there to remind the Si-type that what they perceive may not be all there is. One can imagine a Si-dominant, who has a 'perception is reality' mindset (which is basically the definition of Si) might buy into the primacy of their own personal perceptions, and so Ne is needed to help them be open to the idea that things may not be what they think they are.

That all being said negative Ne tends to manifest as negative hyperbolizing. You can imagine the person who is paralyzed from action because "what if this happens, or what if that happens" and so on. The Ne-dom has Ti/Te/Fi/Fe to judge these perceptions so they are more reliable (remember people have to trust their dominant function otherwise they wouldn't trust their own perceptions or judgments), but the Inferior Ne type doesn't have this luxury so it all just gets thrown out there ridiculous, coherent and all things in between. 

Hypochondria is really Si+Ne working. Again its completely perceptual (you may not have an illness its all in your head, and then Ne jumps in and starts throwing out the possibilities of what might be wrong).


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## Pizal (Jul 8, 2011)

@LiquidLight Most of the stuff I've read portrayed dominant Ne in a positive light especially with ENFPs. I wish I was the person they describe online in some of these descriptions. I didn't know if there was a reason for it or if the authors were just pointing out the positives to be more appealing. You seem to being saying there is a reason for it, which makes sense. 

I do have some questions. Whether or not I trust Ne isn't dependent on whether possibilities are negative or positive. If a Nedom's thinking goes negative wouldn't they trust it? I'm not poking holes I'm really trying to understand better.

I had a bout of hypochondria a few years ago, but it wasn't completely imagined. I had low potassium due to a medicine I was taking and I was losing energy and all the time I'm going to the doctor and she couldn't figure out was was wrong for months. Before we figured it out I had a panic attack that I was convinced was a real heart problem so I end up imagining symptoms which would lead to more panic attacks. My doctor was going to prescribe antidepressants, but once I believed they were panic attacks I started not having them. I'm glad I just refused to take them. Anyway, I do think Ne was working there, but it wasn't completely unfounded at first. What do you think?


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## liza_200 (Nov 13, 2010)

By using my Ne(which I do in every single moment) sometimes, I tend to over-analyze an individual.


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## Magic Mirror (May 20, 2011)

Pizal said:


> I do have some questions. Whether or not I trust Ne isn't dependent on whether possibilities are negative or positive. If a Nedom's thinking goes negative wouldn't they trust it? I'm not poking holes I'm really trying to understand better.


I was wondering the same. Since Ne is about generating possibilities, isn't it only natural that some of those possibilities will be negative as well as positive?

However, I believe @LiquidLight was saying that Ne-doms are much better equipped at _handling_ these possibilities. (Please correct me if I'm wrong.) Since Ne-doms basically live in a world of possibilities, not all possibilities seem scary or dark or unfamiliar - it's the way they perceive the world. An Ne-dom is capable of judging these possibilities to see if they can be trusted, if they make sense, or if they are valuable. If Ne happens to generate some really wild worst case scenarios, it will also be capable of generating alternative scenarios that don't seem so scary.

An Si-dominant isn't used to judging the worst case scenarios generated by their inferior Ne, and most likely inferior Ne will not be capable of generating alternative possibilities that seem more positive. Therefore, it's easier for an Si-dom to get caught up in some really unrealistic worst case scenarios. Also, because an Si-dom isn't used to living in a world of possibilities, the possibilities generated by inferior Ne will most likely have scary undertones to them.


Then again, I believe it's completely possible for an Ne-dom or aux to get caught up in worst case scenarios, especially under stress, because a stressed-out or otherwise unhealthy Ne user may not be capable of using their judging processes well enough.

This is what happens to me. When I'm feeling fine, my dominant Ti is actually pretty good at analyzing and judging the possibilities my Ne generates. But when I'm stressed or anxious, my judging process gets totally warped, and I get caught up in the most horrible worst case scenarios ever.

For example, hypochondria. When I get, say, a headache, I instantly analyze a million possible reasons for it. When I'm able to think about it rationally, I use my past experiences and logic to determine the most likely cause: my muscles must be tense again, so I need a massage and I'll be fine.

When I'm feeling stressed or anxious, my logic goes out the window and I figure my headache must be due to a tumor. I sort of realize it's nearly impossible, but because I'm feeling anxious already, I get caught in a thought loop: "But this time it _may_ be something more serious. Brain tumors _can_ cause a headache, it's a fact. How do I _know_ there's no tumor in my head? No, I don't know because my head hasn't been checked. If there's a tumor, it's most likely been there for a long time. Now I'm gonna die." Etc.

The same goes for worst case scenarios. When I'm feeling stressed, I focus on all the details that are wrong in my life, and infer a bunch of worst case scenarios and vividly imagine all the various ways my life will go downhill. When I'm feeling fine, I'm able to actually generate positive possibilities as well, and evaluate which of them are most realistic.


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## Eric B (Jun 18, 2010)

In this vein, there's the situation when primary Ne degrades to it's shadow, Ni. Then, you lock into one of those negative possibilities, and get carried away with it.
(For primary Ni, shadow Ne would probably have your one intuition branching off in a million different directions negatively, and the person getting completely lost).


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## Pizal (Jul 8, 2011)

One thing I know about Ne is that is doesn't judge. I don't mean it's easy to talk to. Ne takes unrealistic and realistic together as if they had the same possibility then it's up to the other functions to see if it's a possibility. I guess a Ne-dom or near Ne-dom person would be adept at judging what is worth holding onto by their judging function. For an ENFP Fi and ENTP Ti. So what Magic Mirror makes sense to me after my initial doubts because Ne doesn't judge. I think @Magic Mirror is right on about the stress we tend to spiral downward during stress regardless of type.

@Eric B That isn't interesting bringing shadow functions into this. I don't know if I subscribe to the shadow functions idea, but it matches my high stress experiences. I turn into a extra neurotic ISTJ. What you just said matches my experience even more as I'm able to think of specific times where I've gotten lost in some Ni fantasy.


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## Eric B (Jun 18, 2010)

You're using four-process theory, while I was using the eight process model. I believe both are valid, and under greater stress you would become perhaps an even worse INFJ or ESTP.


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## LibertyPrime (Dec 17, 2010)

want me to list all the ways one can die when going to work in the morning?...

Chaotic thoughts towards possible worst case scenarios and really bad possibilities are a huge problem sometimes. I also got into this sort of "hypochondriac" episode a few times, where I "feel that I have problems" and "need to figure out what those actually are"...to "fix them"...lol now I remembered that I can't breathe properly through my left nostril (broken nose when 5). 

The OMG I have could have cancer or something else...happens sometimes. <.< I mainly put all of this under being 6w7. The worst options pop into my head when I'm facing some random crappy social situation.

Under stress I clearly get more logical, more factual "does it work or doesn't it you effing moron!?" ^^;...like that...self criticism and other criticism lmao.


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## LiquidLight (Oct 14, 2011)

We also have to define what we mean by 'negative Ne.' Because perception is not negative or positive, good or bad on its own. So if you have an intuition and its 'bad' or 'good' that is actually Thinking (or more likely Feeling) that tells you whether or not the intuition is worthwhile or makes sense. So often 'good' and 'bad' is more of an indictment of your judgment functions and as such will be influenced by the development of those functions.

For example an ENTP's ability to evaluate based upon Feeling will be less robust than an ENFP's simply because for ENFP, Feeling is the preferred perspective. So in an ENTP judgments about intuitions related to Feeling may have a slightly negative bent to them (because Fe for ENTP is the tertiary function) whereas for the ENFP, Feeling is the auxiliary accomodating the dominant function. For ENFP, Thinking's (Te in the tertiary position) judgments about an intuition might be slightly negative.

Now this is all very different from Ne in a type that prefers Si. This isn't as related to how you judge the intuitions, but rather is the effect of Ne being a less conscious function and as we all know the less conscious a function is, the more 'shadow-like' it is. So for the ISxJs, negative Ne is really the shadow pulling them in the opposite direction from their preferred dominant ego perspective (Si). Their intuitions may not in fact be quantifiably negative (in a Te or Fe way) but they are perceived as negative to the Si-type because Ne represents the counter perspective of Si. If you've spent your whole life in a Si perspective, Ne is sort of like the devil trying to bring you down, so most everything the inferior function brings about will be perceived by you as a negative to who you think you are (but we should stress it doesn't mean that the intuitions themselves are negative, just perceived that way). Really what's happening to SJs is the inverse of what is going on with NPs. With NPs, you have an intuition and because Intuition is the ego's preferred perspective, it will generally be judged favorably and robustly by the auxiliary (or dominant in the case of INPs) judging function. But in SJs intuitions brought about by the Inferior (and sometimes low-functioning tertiary) function will also be judged robustly by the judging functions, except because the 3rd/4th functions are closer to the shadow, they will be judged as negative. 

So we have to be careful not to look at Ne in a vacuum and say "my Ne causes me to do this," or "I hate it when Ne does that." The functions don't work that way. If you are an ENFP or ENTP what we really have is a sort-of see-saw with Extraverted Intuition on one side exerting pressure and Introverted Sensation on the other also exerting pressure (you just may not be aware of it consciously) and it is the two functions working together that define the general disposition of the Ne-dom. The Ne-dom is seen as someone who runs off with possibilities precisely because they reject Si. With Si-doms its the opposite. The Si-dom is anchored to Ne, so the Si-dom gets seen as someone who doesn't like to be surprised or is generally not open to new experiences (possibilities) because they have consciously rejected Ne. But both functions work in tandem it's not just Ne and not just Si, they are a functional pair. If you prefer one, you are rejecting the other.


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## dejavu (Jun 23, 2010)

For my fellow hypochondriacs...

I'm sure most of you have found a way to deal with it by now, but my method has been fairly simple. _Avoid webMD._ It will drive you insane with the possibilities! And personally, whenever I get some symptom, like a headache, I force myself to think, "It's nothing. It will go away." because 99% of the time, it does. Of course, this kind of thinking will get you killed if it is something medically bad...so that's why you start letting yourself worry if it persists for a while.

Just my advice.


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## Sybok (Mar 9, 2012)

I tend to have paranoid phases... everything bad could happen, right now, in my appartment, where I am not. sometimes, I count, how often i close my frontdoor, my refrigerator etc. I expect the worst, often enough. Well, I am an 6w5, sooooo, its quite "normal", but I hate it. I distrust way too often... even my own senses.


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## SalvinaZerelda (Aug 26, 2010)

Ne can lose itself in possibilities and might forget to achieve, or Ne might become decadent and selfish and forgetful that people have physical needs too.


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## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

Rune said:


> Ne can lose itself in possibilities and might forget to achieve, or Ne might become decadent and selfish and forgetful that people have physical needs too.


Ne doesn't achieve - the person behind it achieves. The dominant function works in a person's favor. This wouldn't be Ne you're talking about - this would be the influence of inferior Si.


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## Pizal (Jul 8, 2011)

Let's differentiate between dark side and downside. The fact that Ne doms don't focus on one thing for a long time can be a problem, but it isn't dark by any means. Some of the authors sighted are talking about common problems among Ne doms, but that doesn't mean Ne cannot lead to dark thoughts if someone is unstable. 

Plus of course we don't only need to talk about Ne doms. When I first posted I was actually thinking of Ne doms and those who have Ne as an auxiliary function, but there is no reason to limit it to those. 

I mean what does an unstable ENP look like? Would their Ne be malfunction in someway or does the person rely heavily on other functions. I think over reliance on the main functions is the main temptation.


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## LiquidLight (Oct 14, 2011)

Pizal said:


> Let's differentiate between dark side and downside. The fact that Ne doms don't focus on one thing for a long time can be a problem, but it isn't dark by any means. Some of the authors sighted are talking about common problems among Ne doms, but that doesn't mean Ne cannot lead to dark thoughts if someone is unstable.
> 
> Plus of course we don't only need to talk about Ne doms. When I first posted I was actually thinking of Ne doms and those who have Ne as an auxiliary function, but there is no reason to limit it to those.
> 
> I mean what does an unstable ENP look like? Would their Ne be malfunction in someway or does the person rely heavily on other functions. I think over reliance on the main functions is the main temptation.


It depends on the nature of the instability. I mean Borderline seems to be common to ENPs. A lot of times people throw out the phrases "unhealthy XXXX" or "unstable" but leave it at that without really going into detail about the character of that pathology. And without doing so we risk misattributing the cause of that pathology to something that might not be the culprit (like a function). In Jung's eyes (and remember he was a psychotherapist, his primarily orientation was toward treating people with pathologies, not typing them) psychological problems were often the result of dissociation (an extreme form of dissociation, Multiple Personality Disorder, is actually referred to as Dissociative Identity Disorder). This speaks then to the idea that psychological problems cannot be summed up neatly into "this function causes this," or "this function causes that." Extraverted Intuition and perception functions play a role, potentially in coloring the form of a pathology (ADHD if you want to go there, seems to be disproportionately centered around Ne and Se types, and OCD around Si types) but they are not the total picture. Often the total picture has more to do with the content of some other complex not even related to the ego or its functions at all. Just like a person can have feelings but have a terribly developed Feeling function, or can think but not be a Thinker, so can a person's functions work normally in a dysfunctional individual. So real life is a little bit messier (because lets say you had some pathology that was the result of some trauma you had in life, the functions wouldn't really say much about this, they'd just sort of hum along doing their thing). 

Functions in and of themselves are neither up or down, good or bad. They are simply mechanisms. Jung called them analogous to organs. Your heart just pumps blood, the lungs regulate oxygen, the stomach digests and so on. In the same fashion Thinking, Feeling, Intuition and Sensation as cognitive processes do simply that: process. But just like an irregular heartbeat or breathing signifies a larger problem (that may not have anything to do with the heart or the lungs) so too a psychological problem may find its form through one of the functions (generally the Inferior function).

Apart from psychological illnesses and issues, the real world implications of uber-Ne are generally a disregard of facts. In her lecture on the Extraverted Intuitive, Von Franz writes


> Because Intuition needs to look at things a little bit from afar or vaguely in order that it may function, you have to half shut your eyes and not look at facts too closely in order to ge this hunch somehow from the unconscious. If you look at things too precisely, you focus on facts and then the hunch can't come through. That is why intuitives tend to be unpunctual and vague, always rushing about a little bit too late, arriving too late, and not focusing on any fact too exactly.
> 
> He is always the one who invents but in the end gets nothing out of it if he overdoes his main function , for he is, as it were, rushing through things and incapable of waiting till what he has sown comes out of the soil and he can gather the fruit. If he his more balanced and can wait a little while, and if he does not dissociate completely by identifying with his main function, then he is a person who can stir up new things in all corners of the world.
> 
> ...


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## saffron (Jan 30, 2011)

Pizal said:


> Let's differentiate between dark side and downside. The fact that Ne doms don't focus on one thing for a long time can be a problem, but it isn't dark by any means. Some of the authors sighted are talking about common problems among Ne doms, but that doesn't mean Ne cannot lead to dark thoughts if someone is unstable.
> 
> Plus of course we don't only need to talk about Ne doms. When I first posted I was actually thinking of Ne doms and those who have Ne as an auxiliary function, but there is no reason to limit it to those.
> 
> I mean what does an unstable ENP look like? Would their Ne be malfunction in someway or does the person rely heavily on other functions. I think over reliance on the main functions is the main temptation.


I don't think there is an inherent dark side to any of the functions. They're just orientations. It's like saying there is a dark side to east because you tend to look that way even when you need to look west. 

People are more than functions and are more complicated than a simple answer here. There are threads about unhealthy ENPs which I'm not going to research right now, but you can if you're interested or maybe someone else wants to. But I'm not convinced that they would be entirely accurate description wise because, as others have addressed here, it's only a small piece in a person's personality.

In general I think that unconscious functions are more problematic to most people than conscious ones and that unstable people are most likely relying on them way too heavily.


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## counterintuitive (Apr 8, 2011)

@ElectricSparkle



> I came across some old children's illness book when I was only about 7 and eventually had to keep making myself forget how to find it because of course then I find that the itching on the left side of my foot that disturbed me so means that I have [insert rare life threatening disorder here].


I was about 7 when I came across a similar book. It was this huge book with all kinds of illnesses in it. I don't know why my parents had it. There were a few illnesses in there I got obsessed with...like I would always think I had those and attribute any "symptoms" to those.




donkeybals said:


> Meh, I tend to agree with a lot of what you guys are saying. But I think, it really depends what you focus on. If you are using Ne to think about all this bad stuff, that's fine, but you could also do it to focus on the good possibilities. I like to do both. Too much of either OR is never a good thing.


Well, I don't know about you, but I can't control what I think about until after I think of it. It kind of runs wild, to both negative and positive. I can't direct it or tell it where to go. After I already think things I can decide whether or not they are reasonable and discard the ones that are not reasonable, but the thoughts have to be there first. I'm pretty optimistic, so sometimes I tend to ignore negative things/obstacles/etc. which is not good -- ignoring does not make it go away! lol


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## Pizal (Jul 8, 2011)

I'm pretty sure Ne can over focus on "negative" possibilities when overwhelmed with negative information. I'm not saying Ne judges possibilities as negative and then chooses to focus on them.

I think the shadow function idea that Ni jumps in may have some credence too.


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## Obsidian (Aug 10, 2011)

The people, especially @LiquidLight, who keep denying that hypochondria is often an Ne trait, are completely wrong.



Jung said:


> His conscious attitude, both to the sensation and the sensed object, is one of sovereign superiority and disregard. Not that he means to be inconsiderate or superior -- he simply does not see the object that everyone else sees; his oblivion is similar to that of the sensation-type -- only, with the latter, the soul of the object is missed. For this oblivion the object sooner or later takes revenge in the form of hypochondriacal, compulsive ideas, phobias, and every imaginable kind of absurd bodily sensation.


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## Hycocritical truth teller (Aug 29, 2011)

Ne has a dark side! It's horrible actually when i am supposing outcomes and becoming paranoid! Whe emotions are involved with Ne i get all nervous about everything!


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## LiquidLight (Oct 14, 2011)

Obsidian said:


> The people, especially @_LiquidLight_ , who keep denying that hypochondria is often an Ne trait, are completely wrong.


Jung is talking about the archaic nature of Inferior Sensation not dominant Extraverted Intuition.


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## Obsidian (Aug 10, 2011)

LiquidLight said:


> Jung is talking about the archaic nature of Inferior Sensation not dominant Extraverted Intuition.


He seems to be talking about both. But it doesn't really make much difference, because you were arguing that this problem would arise most in Si-dominants.


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## LiquidLight (Oct 14, 2011)

Obsidian said:


> He seems to be talking about both. But it doesn't really make much difference, because you were arguing that this problem would arise most in Si-dominants.


I think because Introverted Sensation is the inferior function of Ne-doms, we're less likely to see the effects of it as outwardly as you would a Si-dominant. I'm not sure that Si-doms are more prone to this sort of thing, but I think we're more likely to see it with a Si-dom than with an ENP. My understanding is that inferior functions, especially inferior introverted functions, the effects are often imperceptible (to others) and have to be inferred. Just like we infer the inferior Thinking of Fe-dom. In my experience it seems its the Si-dominants, who are much more oriented to their inner physical experience, seem to be more vocal about these kinds of issues, even if the prevalence of these problems isn't anymore or less than that of other types. 

My bigger point though was to caution that functions are not causal of pathologies. They simply provide the color or the vehicle for the shape of a pathology. Any type can be Borderline or Avoidant or Nacissistic or Schitzotypal, but the character of their functions may color the expression of those pathologies, but not cause them. To me it seemed that the posts about hypochondria were people saying "my Ne _causes_ this..." and this is not correct. A person can be a hypochondriac for reasons completely unrelated to Ne or Si (generally related to negative affect or an issue with a complex), but Ne and Si can then run off with this in their own respective directions giving these issues a flavor particular to those respective types.


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## AimfortheBrain (Nov 2, 2010)

Wouldn't Si doms become hypochondriacs to with inferior Ne constantly telling them that every little feeling of pain is some kind of major disease? (thats how i feel a lot of the time at least).

As far as a dark side of Ne, I think sometimes the Ne-mindset can be so broad that it ends up having no respect for individual life experiences.


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## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

> As far as a dark side of Ne, I think sometimes the Ne-mindset can be so broad that it ends up having no respect for individual life experiences.


Possibly, but that would be projection of your inferior Ne onto them. To them, this isn't viewed negatively, since it comprises their most favored perspective.


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## AimfortheBrain (Nov 2, 2010)

JungyesMBTIno said:


> Possibly, but that would be projection of your inferior Ne onto them. To them, this isn't viewed negatively, since it comprises their most favored perspective.


I know. I was just talking about how Ne could be seen in a negative light instead of the super clever, bubbly way that it is talked about on the forums a lot. I agree an Ne-dom wouldn't see anything wrong with their own main perspective.


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## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

Yeah, that's one way of looking at it (from your Si dom perspective). I bet every non-Ne dom type has their own way of looking at it negatively. For instance, as an Ni dom, I sometimes view dominant Ne as flaky and lacking interest in searching for deeper implications - sometimes, it just seems really meaninglessly random to me or just lacking in focus on stuff I consider to be "the meat and potatoes" of speculation (my more subjective Ni tendencies). That would so totally be me viewing it under the bias of my dominant Ni. Any criticism any type can level against it is capable of being true.


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## electricky (Feb 18, 2011)

Yeah, I'd think a lot of the perspectives on the negatives would roughly fit their own dominant:

Ni: can't dig deep enough (shallow)
Ti: not enough focus/relevance (doesn't make sense)
Te: never actually solves anything (irresponsible)
Fi: does not attend to personal nuance (mean)
Fe: does not attend to family/friends/society (rude)
Se: needs a huge reality check (ridiculous)
Si: a total mess/unstable (see all of above but especially Se)

(And then this would mean that the Ne take here is to kind of see where everyone is coming from but not if they are problems or not :tongue: )


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## Agelaius (Apr 3, 2010)

@dejavu Hey, nice avatar ;D

To add my $0.02, the answer is flat out yes, much as everyone else has pointed out. Ne is objective and will take all information in, regardless of what it may be. Everyone else explained things nicely, so I won't go into anything further. Just felt like throwing in my agreement with the responses so far :tongue:


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## electricky (Feb 18, 2011)

Agelaius said:


> To add my $0.02, the answer is flat out yes, much as everyone else has pointed out. Ne is objective and will take all information in, regardless of what it may be. Everyone else explained things nicely, so I won't go into anything further. Just felt like throwing in my agreement with the responses so far :tongue:


Agreement, or optimistic neutrality (or somehow both) ?


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## Agelaius (Apr 3, 2010)

ElectricSparkle said:


> Agreement, or optimistic neutrality (or somehow both) ?


Let's go with both, as I will admit to skimming through most of the pages... yes, I tl;dr on threads with more than 3 pages :laughing:


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## Functianalyst (Jul 23, 2009)

JungyesMBTIno said:


> You're actually dead right about the hypochondriac possibility. Inferior Si tends to rear it's ugly head with hypochondriasis in Ne doms when they fall into "grip" episodes, according to Naomi Quenk's book dealing with this.


This reminds of me what Naomi Quenck writes in her books, "Beside Ourselves" and "Was That Really Me?", when referring to how ENP types react while in the grip by focusing on the body. Dr. Quenck says, "Ne types frequently over interpret real or imagined bodily sensations as indicative of illness." The 3 characteristics Dr. Quenck indicate Ne types going through a grip episode will do are withdraw and become depressed, become obsessive and focus on the body. 

Those who use an 8 function model such as Beebe, says it is the Ni and Se which show the shadow side. Beebe describe himself in using Ni and Se as:


> My introverted intuition, shadow in atti-tude to my superior extraverted intuition, has decidedly oppositional traits: it ex-presses itself in ways I could variously describe as avoidant, passive-aggressive, paranoid and seductive, in all cases taking up a stance that is anathema to the way my superior extraverted intuition wants me to behave.
> 
> Finally, I began to see my extraverted sen-sation, the shadow side of my Anima intro-verted sensation, as a Demonic Personality that often operates as an undermining oaf, a beastly part of myself that nevertheless can occasionally be an uncanny source for the infusion of redemptive spirit into my dealings with myself and others (note 3).


Linda V. Berens and Dario Nardi seem to follow Beebe in describing the Ne dominant when referring to the Ni and Se function-attitudes:


> Becoming stubborn about their perceptions of how the future will be. For themselves, they may lock into a vision of something that is not happening.
> 
> When really stressed they may get caught up in a binge of being in the physical moment, which can result in excessively seeking stimulation or following the urge to sleep or do nothing. They zero in on isolated details, hastily acting on them in a chaotic and disjointed way.


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## The Wanderering ______ (Jul 17, 2012)

Lozan said:


> Ne definitely has its shortfalls. Among other things, Ne will get so caught up in looking through all the possibilities (and ways to address them) that it sometime gets in the way of actually getting stuff done. Sometimes, I'd like to be able to start a conversation without thinking about all the ways my statements could be misinterpreted / misunderstood.


Finally someone who gets it. Sometimes I have to consciously tell myself not to think. It comes and goes though sometimes I'll think about talking to a girl and just do it, but usually when I get really comfortable with my Ne I start doing something bad or stupid then get in trouble for it later.


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## voicetrocity (Mar 31, 2012)

This post was really interesting to me. 

I'm not in touch with my body enough to be even remotely close to being a hypochondriac. Being as how I've had medical problems for most of my life, this really is to my detriment. I've had Dr.'s look at me and ask me how in the heck I could not know something was up with me, while I'm just sitting there smiling and saying _"Well, I did feel a little different"_. 

There's no way I'm going to say that I'm unaware of negative possibilities; my mind does go there, and might even indulge a little in it (for a brief period of time). The thing is, while I've generated the negative, I've also generated positive or even neutral outcomes/possibilites. I'm aware and, somewhat, prepared for both- I just tend to dwell on the one that seems most likely in the particular instance. 

Because I have the ability to see multiple sides to everything, it's easier for me to just take things as they come and accept them as a part of life. If something isn't positive, I recognize it and suck it up.

Really liked reading @Magic Mirror 's thoughts on the matter.


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## princessJAY (May 25, 2011)

What a fascinating discussion!

I have the same experience of intensely avoiding Si issues, regarding my health or anything with concrete details. Can't remember specific facts or dates and don't even try (with the occasional real fear that I am getting early-onset Alzheimer's!). Can't remember routes no matter how many times I've driven on them. When stressed, I will find a single mistake, and believe that _everything_ has been ruined, and panic. This is especially noticeable when in general, I am a realistic optimist.

I also _hate_ going to physicals, dentists, or any kind of _preventive_ routine care--because I'm afraid they'll find something drastically wrong with me. Even as a kid I'd rather hide in a corner and cry from pain than let my parents see what was wrong. It's like I'm still a little child, as if by sticking fingers in my ear, singing _la la la_, the problem will somehow go away. Little injuries freak me out, and I'll think, what if it's _[horrific disease]_?!?!?! Shouldn't I go check it out just to be safe? But then I'll think, no, I'd rather live in ignorance until I die of that sickness than have to find out early and live in fear. If the end is the same, what is the difference?

Since I do not fit the wild, inventive, and free-wheeling stereotype, these Si problems are my strongest basis for being ENTP.


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## Nirel (Oct 21, 2012)

Lozan said:


> Sometimes, I'd like to be able to start a conversation without thinking about all the ways my statements could be misinterpreted / misunderstood.


I used to be somehow like this, I think that you should take a step out of the situation and think calmly and then you would probably be able to just know what to say.


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## L (Aug 12, 2011)

dejavu said:


> I remember being a kid and my parents would go out, and I'd get caught up thinking about possible scenarios that could have happened and how they might have died. It would get so in-depth that it felt real, until I snapped out of the thinking. It's crazy stuff. Might have just been my overactive imagination, though.


I actually still do that but not to your extent. I use it when I get bored and I drift off to 'what-if' scenarios a lot. But lemme tell ya, if a robber actually does come through that door I've got about 500 different scenarios I've run through in my head, even if I can only remember like 20 of them lol.


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## mushr00m (May 23, 2011)

Here are some thoughts from an INFP perspective about the bad side of Ne.

http://personalitycafe.com/infp-forum-idealists/121402-does-ne-exhaust-you.html


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