# Jawz's ENFJ ---> ENTP Type switch explanation



## SilentScream (Mar 31, 2011)

*Why an ENTP can mistype as an ENFJ*​
These aren't really "closing" comments on my recent type change, and it may still not be very convincing to people reading it. But the very interesting thing here is to note how another ENTP [the blogger] has recognized the same dilemma I've been going through for several years of my life. 



> However, things can get out of hand in the tertiary and inferior range. When someone is under stress, as Naomi Quenk describes, the tertiary or inferior can erupt, assuming a kind of bizarre dominance in the person’s personality. Because these functions are very restricted, it will not look like the function does for someone who has it as a naturally dominant attitude.





> For example, an ENTP having a bad Fe ‘episode’ will look like an ugly caricature of a normal Extraverted Feeler. They may be bizarrely obsessed with pleasing other people. They may be terrified of invoking social wrath. When this ‘episode’ combines with the inferior troubles of Introverted Sensation, they will experience panic about change – catastrophizing over the results of social mishaps. Extraverted Intuition, now the slave of bizarre Fe and Si will aggressively feed a cycle of catastrophic imaginings about inevitable the outcomes of social problems. Like a deer in the headlights, social obligations and social conflict will loom to infinite sizes and run them down in the street. They go from having control of a limited Fe attitude to being completely dominated by an ugly contortion of it.





> Bill Murray plays this situation perfectly in Lost in Translation, when he calls his wife – he is hand-cuffed by her torrent of social demands and the expectations placed on him by his children. In the end, even though he has met someone in Tokyo who he clearly is much more compatibly with, and who is young and beautiful, he chooses to return, like a salmon, to the miserable home life he has stuck himself in. Introverted Sensation and Extraverted Feeling, suddenly in the driver’s seat, make him throw away adventure, new experiences, and possibilities in order to preserve miserable social obligations that make him miserable. He is trapped by his own personality.


http://intuitivelyrational.wordpress.com/2010/12/26/the-tertiary-fe-or-why-enfjs-are-grand/

----

To break it down, I'm going to point specific experiences as they relate to me:

- They may be bizarrely obsessed with pleasing other people. - Yes
- They may be terrified of invoking social wrath. - Yes
- When this ‘episode’ combines with the inferior troubles of Introverted Sensation, they will experience panic about change – catastrophizing over the results of social mishaps. - Yes
- Like a deer in the headlights, social obligations and social conflict will loom to infinite sizes and run them down in the street. - OMG Yes!
- They go from having control of a limited Fe attitude to being completely dominated by an ugly contortion of it. 

_*What exactly is the ugly contortion of Fe?*_

I have two theories [possible explanations]:

1. People-pleasing, self-sacrificial elements combined with some overly controlling tendencies brought in about by the very, very limited Si are usually brought about by an over-extension of Fe. An ENTP who's somehow twisted himself/herself up in meeting social expectations and even family expectations will come across as an extremely unhealthy ESFJ. They will appear to be perfectly happy in their giving/socially considerate behaviour, however, there's a nagging voice in the head that continues to battle back trying to re-assert itself that an ENTP is just not very happy being as socially considerate, giving, compassionate as a typical ESFJ would. The drain and strain is tremendous and it's something I've constantly felt --- but again, Fe when over-ruling logical explanations leads to poor decisions in the social arena. 

2. However, in less unhealthy states, an ENTP may actually lead with Fe which acts as a negative controlling function over Ne -- which is another reason why people pointed out that my intuition seems to be over-ruled by a judging function. 

The difference between an ESFJ's Fe-Ne and an ENTP's Ne-Fe is that in the latter [ENTP], Fe literally controls Ne and doesn't actually work with it. In an ENTP, when Fe leads, it negates Ne/Ti instead of giving it positive feedback about people's feelings. It scares the ENTP into believing all sorts of monstrosities about other people's intentions and motives, or at the same time see all kinds of negative things happening based on fighting/going against social rules and obligations. 

The fear is of punishment through loss of relationships because some sort of social rule was broken -- or because some sort of convention was challenged. The ENTP questions the self and imposes those rules upon himself/herself even when the need to do so may not exist. It's all a result of surfing a stream of negative possibilities ---- so not very unlike an ExFJ. Of course, the intuition remains dominant, but it starts taking feedback from an immature Fe and starts projecting mostly negative scenarios that would happen if an ENTP doesn't follow convention instead of what they naturally do i.e. question it. 

In the end however, even the negative scenarios are still very artfully justified using Ti but they contain logical fallacies showing a lack of foresight that an ENTP actually is gifted with. 

Fe scares Ne into submission. It's the child function, and therefore the social rules/obligations that were ingrained into an ENTP's mind by his/her nurturing figure don't really mature to the point they would for an ExFJ. What this translates into is that even though the ENTP is still coming across as having a feeling core, it actually is childish. It is immature, playful. 

Ultimately, the Fe in an ENTP wants to play with other people's emotional reactions and test them in order to understand them and assimilate them. As an ENTP matures, the Fe is best served if it's allowed to be playful and childish, but not to the extent of controlling/manipulating people and situations in their favour. Si is the grounding function for the dominant Ne and sort of acts as the anchor --- but when it's over-used, it acts as a ball and chain instead.


----------



## Boxter9 (Dec 30, 2011)

"Ultimately, the Fe in an ENTP wants to play with other people's emotional reactions and test them in order to understand them and assimilate them."

I've often felt that this was the key difference between myself and ENFJ -- at my Fe's worst I'll express undying and unconditional love for a fellow human being as part of a morbid scientific experiment; the purpose is not to form a lasting bond, but to understand as fully as possible and then, having reached a conclusion, move on.

Thus the most lasting relationships I've had have been with IxFx and with people who have mental disorders, because it is far more challenging to reach that conclusion. Though, I once grew so frustrated with my INFP girlfriend's enigma that I broke up with her to see if she really meant that she'd always love me. She didn't. Obviously that didn't help my own closure at all.

Though that was some time ago I still have an unfortunate tendency to engage in juvenile and destructive emotional behavior when it comes to relating to other people, often electing to move them to extremes in order to see their "true nature"... thankfully I'm beginning to catch this when it's happening but there's yet some work to do. Heh.

Anyway -- I just looked at this to see what made you change your type and found it personally insightful so thank you.


----------



## FatSpacePenguins (May 26, 2012)

I was a full blown ENFP, but recently I have tested as an ENFJ...multiple times. I think it's because I am getting older. Sometimes I revert back to an ENFP and act like a freak. The only differance is that I am more structured with my responsibilities and I like to plan things.


----------



## SilentScream (Mar 31, 2011)

FatSpacePenguins;bt27995 said:


> I was a full blown ENFP, but recently I have tested as an ENFJ...multiple times. I think it's because I am getting older. Sometimes I revert back to an ENFP and act like a freak. *The only differance is that I am more structured with my responsibilities and I like to plan things.*


Sounds like some good development has occurred in your Si.


----------



## Antrist (Jan 26, 2011)

I was just about to leave you a message on your profile, as I was surprised to see your type change. Totally unexpected. Now I look at your explanation of why that's happened, it seems reasonable. After much stewing and leaving work and doing X and Y, I've come to the conclusion I'm ISTP, albeit weakly preferent (?) in that direction.. ha I know that's not a word.


----------



## locofoco (Apr 5, 2011)

My jaw dropped when I noticed your signature and the mistype.  Hopefully now that you've learned this, it'll help you get into a better place in life since the reason for your mistype was not the most positive. Good luck!


----------



## Malachi (Dec 20, 2011)

I was shocked to see your type change...I was thinking man I'm gone for a little over a month and someone's type changes!!!!! Dang! But I'm so glad that you found your type. It's such a relief when you finally find it I'm really happy for you @Jawz. And thanks for using your Fe to deal with me because I don't always have the best reactions to people helping me with their thinking side.


----------



## Wendy (May 26, 2012)

I am in the exact (or pretty close) situation to you. I was an ENFJ and those instances you pointed out completely pertain to me. And on top of it all I recently took a test and it suggests I am in actuality an ENTP.


----------



## Crono (Jul 5, 2011)

@Jawz You know, I always felt we were kind of...similar odd ENFJ types in the ENFJ forum, and then quite a while ago, I started thinking (just from a collection of random observations) that I might actually suit ENTP better. (You can see my thought process on it from quite a while ago here: http://personalitycafe.com/entp-forum-visionaries/78030-entp-heart.html#post1922661 ). 

My thought process is based on a lot of inductive reasoning about romantic interest preferences and types I've gotten along with over the years; I've also been pressured from a young age to be "more socially sensitive" constantly, by my (very) INFJ mother. 

I even remember having this thought at one point quite some time ago "You know, Jawz, kind of like me, doesn't quite fit into the ENFJ forum in the same way, yet I feel like we're sometimes on the same page, I wonder if he's actually ENTP too..." Weird that I stopped back and found that you'd come to that very conclusion on your own already.


----------



## MegaTuxRacer (Sep 7, 2011)

I went through the exact same thing broheim. Reading about some of Jung's other works has helped me out a lot.


----------



## SilentScream (Mar 31, 2011)

@_Crono_ --- yeah --- the way we were relating to one another was quite interesting. I had my doubts very early on, but never verbalized them like you did. I think I remember seeing your thread back then as well, but at that point I had transfixed myself on the idea of being an ENFJ to the point where I wasn't open to another type possibility at that point. But the doubts came roaring back when I started spending more and more time with ENFJ's and started noticing some key differences in how I processed the world. 

@_MegaTuxRacer_ - For some reason I'm beginning to see INFJ/ENFJ and INFP as a strong potential mistype for ENTP's going through a hard time. I think it makes sense from the stand-point that if you look at questions in tests, most of them are very unclear in what they're asking exactly - especially when it comes to helping people differentiate between dominant versus auxiliary functions. For some reason, my memory works in backwards [probably inferior Si]  where now I'm seeing more and more reasons to doubt my ENFJ type as opposed to when I was actually typed. I remember when I first answered the Cognitive Function test, I saw the Fe dominant questions and maxed out the answers even knowing that I was doing something wrong - that I was cheating the test. So anyways --- yah, in my case there was some forced relationing to the ENFJ archetype on my part - as well as cheating the tests. 

That said --- ENFJ/ENTP aren't really that impossible to mistype for other reasons

- Both are intuitive types and Ni and Ne are both forward thinking
- Both share Fe and just because Fe is in the tertiary position for ENTP's doesn't mean that they are incapable of taking care of other's feelings, or suffer from lack of empathy
- Both have sensing in the tertiary and inferior position which generally means that either could struggle with details or things in their present environment. 
- And even the Ti difference isn't all that easy to discern since Fe is a rational judging function and ENFJ's with the Fe/Ti dynamic are far from illogical. They just approach it from a different perspective as ENTP's do. We use Ti to trim off the un-necessary possibilities Ne dreams up to make better judgements -- whereas ENFJ's use Ti to help them make sense of the world with regards to which social obligations make sense for them. Armed with Ni, The Ti in ENFJ's makes them less judgemental about others and the world as their FeSi brethren 

So .. my point is that the differences are actually not that significant so as to make them impossible mistypes. It's just that what sort of processes a person is himself/herself committing to are the ones that need to be analysed from an individual perspective as opposed to a generalized one.


----------



## Crono (Jul 5, 2011)

That's a reasonable way of looking at it, furthermore, I think that we can all agree that there's a pretty big range of people who fall under both ENFJ and ENTP. I think it stands to reason that some of the more "touchy feely" ENTPs and some of the more "grounded and logical" ENFJs would actually have a fair bit in common. (I tend to think of ENTPs as the most "socially oriented" of the NT types, so one with a particular interest in people, rather than, say, products, could probably seem pretty ENFJ-like on the surface).


----------



## Falling Leaves (Aug 18, 2011)

Wasn't going to comment, but figured that I should probably say this. 

I honestly don't think that you used an entirely 'unhealthy' form of Fe. Speaking from my own personal experience, immature Fe left as the dominant function leaves the user in a state of constant raw emotion. Everything is seen through whatever emotional state you are in, be it happy or sad; there is no room whatsoever for anything else. 

Like you said here, another unpleasant side effect of this is that they will normally become an ugly characiture of an Fe dom. I remember that I suddenly needed to surround myself with other people, to talk because it was the only alternative to thinking; yes, I suddenly gained an unusual amount of 'confidence' and lost all of my social inhibitions, but it didn't suddenly make me anymore empathetic in nature; for all intensive purposes, I still had the same amount of Fe, it was more that I was relying on it far, far too much. 

You on the other hand, had an entire internet forum completely convinced that you were, without a single doubt in anyones mind no less, Fe dominant - don't you think that part of that is because you're a naturally empathetic person and not all because you're an 'unhealthy entp'? I don't want to see you trying to suppress a part of you which makes you the Jawz we all know and love, especially not because you feel as though you need to be more 'rational' and 'less people orientated' in order to fit yourself into the ENTP box. One change here I'm crossing my fingers for is the option to use Xs when you set your type because, even after over 6 months of deliberating, I still don't feel as though I'm anymore a sensor than I am iNtuitive.

Actually, didn't you once tell me to stand on my box and roar? Well that's what I'm telling you to damn well do now. Stop worrying about type and worry about _you_r_self as a person._ 

And for the record, I don't think there was anything especially wrong with you when you typed yourself as an ENFJ; by all means, if you are unhappy with yourself you should seek to change, however, reaching balance is completely impossible if you aren't willing to try and see the positive aspects of those very same traits. Hell, you might even decide you want to keep them, ugly warts and all. 

[and no, I don't doubt at all that you are an ENTP, sorry if the comment I made here gave that impression; I think you're actually just someone who is lucky enough to have quite a balanced use between F and T, so much so that they can embody positive traits of both.]


----------



## chwoey (Mar 29, 2012)

Thank you. This explains so much.


----------

