# Is gluten sensitivity made up?



## beth x (Mar 4, 2010)

There seems to be a lot of gluten free things out there now. Even the local pizza places advertise gluten free. There seems to be an epidemic of people becoming ill with gluten sensitivity and finding that avoidance of foods containing gluten seems to help. If it isn't the gluten (which this story seems to illustrate) then the question is what is causing people to feel better when they abstain from it?


Researchers Who Provided Key Evidence For Gluten Sensitivity Have Thoroughly Shown That It Doesn't Exist | Business Insider

Non-Celiac Gluten Sensitivity May Not Exist | RealClearScience

Thoughts?


----------



## mysterie (Jul 16, 2014)

i dont want to get all conspiracy theorist on you here, but there are plenty of large corporate companies that don't want gluten-free to become a commonality in todays society. i'm a strong supporter of the paleo diet, and it is common sense to me that our bodies have not evolved to process the amount of grains which is consumed by the average westerner. 

wheat was never processed in our history until the industrial revolution brought commercial crops of gluten products which were cheaper and easier to produce than fruit/veg. 

i personally have experienced increased energy and clarity of mind when abstaining from gluten products for a few weeks, of course it is important to be eating a balanced and clean, whole food diet. 

tbh i think most everyone has gluten sensitivity, same with milk imo


----------



## Stelmaria (Sep 30, 2011)

The way the media is reporting it is a stretch of the truth.

It is a mistake to call it GLUTEN sensitivity, it is not a mistake to call it a non-coeliac wheat sensitivity and the dietary requirements are the same.

The researchers have shown that the sensitivity itself exists, but it is not simply due to the specific presence of gluten.

The methods they used to demonstrate this however are unfortunately not well discussed in the media, leading to inappropriate conclusions being communicated by the media. Whey sensitivity is not uncommon too, so comparing gluten to whey and claiming the symptom rates were similar does not disprove that there is a gut sensitivity, simply that the sensitivity is not specific to gluten.


----------



## beth x (Mar 4, 2010)

I found that even rice cakes were a no no when I was really ill. Rice cakes that consisted of rice salt and water. LOL. That is what is labelled on the package. 

I have noticed that even when you make your own bread there are chemicals in the flour. It did get me wondering whether or not there is a whole heap of other bullshit out there in the bread. 

This is just one site that explained the 'salt' in the rice cakes and the 'flour' in bread.

Food Additives Guide (500-585)

Of course my condition is better now but I have learned which products to steer clear of. I still don't know if it was gluten sensitivity or all the other stuff.


----------



## Hardway (Aug 14, 2014)

I believe its totally a real issue that some people have. I also believe that a lot of other people tend to be be sheep like and just jump on whatever happens to be the latest trend in food, fitness, social causes, etc etc. Its a real issue the same way some people can't process milk. 

I used to date a girl who gave up eating meat for over 5 years, when she finally decided she wanted to bring meats back into her diet she got extremely sick. I remember going to see her in the hospital when she was recovering and learning that the human body can sometimes lose the ability to process some foods over time. Its not a always permanent change but it can be a real one.


----------



## VinnieBob (Mar 24, 2014)

bethdeth said:


> There seems to be a lot of gluten free things out there now. Even the local pizza places advertise gluten free. There seems to be an epidemic of people becoming ill with gluten sensitivity and finding that avoidance of foods containing gluten seems to help. If it isn't the gluten (which this story seems to illustrate) then the question is what is causing people to feel better when they abstain from it?
> 
> 
> Researchers Who Provided Key Evidence For Gluten Sensitivity Have Thoroughly Shown That It Doesn't Exist | Business Insider
> ...


no it's not, 8 years ago I lost 48 lbs in 3 weeks on account of gluten intolerance and almost starved to death. the only difference between celiacs and gluten intolerance is GI does not show up as positive as celiacs but the symptoms are 100% identical

edit- for those that do not know celiacs/GI is when the intestine rejects the protein [gluten] in wheat and other grains


----------



## beth x (Mar 4, 2010)

vinniebob said:


> no it's not, 8 years ago I lost 48 lbs in 3 weeks on account of gluten intolerance and almost starved to death. the only difference between celiacs and gluten intolerance is GI does not show up as positive as celiacs but the symptoms are 100% identical
> 
> edit- for those that do not know celiacs/GI is when the intestine rejects the protein [gluten] in wheat and other grains


I was told that salicylate sensitivity wasn't real when I was rushed to the hospital with an asthma attack yet going on a diet to get salicylates down worked for me. It was prescribed by another doctor who thought salicylate sensitivity was real. How about that. Heh.


----------



## VinnieBob (Mar 24, 2014)

personally I believe the human digestive system can't process all the chemicals introduced into foods in the 20th century. just my theory so trolls don't ask for empirical proof but here goes- prior to the late 19th-20th centuries most of the non wealthy population ate organic/non gmo foods and meat was a luxury only the wealthy enjoyed unless you shot your prey, most peoples diet consisted of fruits/vegetables for thousands of years and our digestive tracts evolved to that diet. fast forward to the present and most foods now contain pure additives that our DT have not evolved to process hence the epidemic of food related issues i.e. diabetes, ibs, celiacs, lactose, soy, casein intolerances and a magnitude of other problems
it's a catch 22 problem, while I do understand that we now have a global economy and huge population to feed and therefor a need for a longer shelf life plus add in economic factors such as keeping the cost low so people can afford to eat and at the same time our food is making countless people ill so as you can see it's quiet the dilemma, ay there's the rub


----------



## VinnieBob (Mar 24, 2014)

yea you gotta love it, I'm so impressed with modern medicine 
it is ironic how all the advancements of the 20th century are now being disproved as false


----------



## BlackDog (Jan 6, 2012)

In my opinion, its largely a crock. 

Celiac is real, some level of sensitivity might be feel, but most people claiming to be either have no idea what they're talking about. Its marketing gold - slap a Gluten Free label on something and uninformed consumers will be all over it. 

What I don't understand is, the vast majority of "celiac" that I know refuse to see a doctor to be diagnosed. 

"It helps my migraines". 

"I don't feel bloated anymore."

"I just _feel_ better. "

I've heard it all. Real celiac can be very serious, and you need to get that shit checked out by a doctor. Going off gluten can even skew test results if you do decide to go see one later. I don't particularly think grain products of any kind are optimal for humans but there is no epidemic sweeping the nation of people who cannot eat gluten. 

So, celiac = real. Non-celiac gluten sensitivity = vague and largely anecdotal, possibly real, but imaginary in most of the population. The placebo effect is very real and very powerful.


----------



## the_natrix (Aug 10, 2011)

I essentially did an experiment with my diet a while back, it was a high copper diet that depleted my zinc levels. After some time of doing this I ate something with flour in it and I got the classic foggy brain. I quit the high copper stuff and added some zinc and other stuff to reduce copper levels and afterwards I could tolerate gluten again. Zinc is required to make digestive enzymes, and if you don't digest something properly it causes inflammation

Oh and on the vegetarian going back to meat thing, I believe it causes illness like this. The zinc in the meat causes your liver to mobilize and try to dump excess copper, if you don't have all the nutrients to enable that then your liver has a fit and you get sick. IMO probably not enough B-6 is the most common reason.


----------



## PowerShell (Feb 3, 2013)

Gluten free is basically another fad diet.


----------



## Brian1 (May 7, 2011)

I have a good friend who can't eat gluten, so I would say no. Gluten free is marketed to a very specific part of the population.


----------



## Stelmaria (Sep 30, 2011)

BlackDog said:


> So, celiac = real. Non-celiac gluten sensitivity = vague and largely anecdotal, possibly real, but imaginary in most of the population. The placebo effect is very real and very powerful.


Studies (such as the Cochrane review) actually show the placebo effect is fairly weak and at best, has a mild effect on analgesia. The problem is that people are easily suggestible and likely to misattribute where their symptoms come from. This is what the original researchers found - initially, a sensitivity was demonstrated in placebo controlled trials by several research groups around the world. But further study showed that it wasn't gluten specifically that was a problem, they just had a generalised sensitivity to certain things.


----------



## BlackDog (Jan 6, 2012)

Snow Leopard said:


> Studies (such as the Cochrane review) actually show the placebo effect is fairly weak and at best, has a mild effect on analgesia. The problem is that people are easily suggestible and likely to misattribute where their symptoms come from. This is what the original researchers found - initially, a sensitivity was demonstrated in placebo controlled trials by several research groups around the world. But further study showed that it wasn't gluten specifically that was a problem, they just had a generalised sensitivity to certain things.


I read the studies, I found them largely inconclusive. Larger studies that control for more factors need to be done. 

The placebo effect is very real. Just because it was relatively weak in a study comprised of 35 participants (if I recall correctly) doesn't mean it is weak overall. The average layman who has "gluten sensitivity" has never been tested or diagnosed. They kick gluten and swear they feel better, although the symptoms were vague to begin with. How many people swear that echinacea and vitamin C made.their cold go away? Its a combination of the placebo effect and confirmation bias. 

We have a very poor understanding of non-celiac gluten sensitivity. It might be "real" but I don't think it works the way we've been assuming it does. It will probably turn out to be something other than gluten. 

In the general population, gluten sensitivity is largely a hypochondriac's answer to general ill health, probably due to diet and exercise. Switching to Glutino brand oreo cookies isn't going to solve anything, but its easier than a lifestyle overhaul. In my opinion anyway.


----------



## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

BlackDog said:


> I read the studies, I found them largely inconclusive. Larger studies that control for more factors need to be done.
> 
> The placebo effect is very real. Just because it was relatively weak in a study comprised of 35 participants (if I recall correctly) doesn't mean it is weak overall. The average layman who has "gluten sensitivity" has never been tested or diagnosed. They kick gluten and swear they feel better, although the symptoms were vague to begin with. How many people swear that echinacea and vitamin C made.their cold go away? Its a combination of the placebo effect and confirmation bias.
> 
> ...


I agree with you and I'd like to add that many people have IBS and often wheat and other grains aggravate it. And, given that IBS is very much affected by psychology, perhaps these people become better due to both placebo and actual removal of irritation factors. I have IBS (though I should do blood tests for celiac given my Hashimoto's) and eating pasta can make me bloated for the whole day, I've even measured it and I've reached + 10 cm in my waist several hours later, lol. 
Also, again because of IBS maybe many people remove processed foodstuffs with grains from their diets, like biscuits and such that may contain other irritants and think that it's because of the gluten.


----------



## Stelmaria (Sep 30, 2011)

BlackDog said:


> In the general population, gluten sensitivity is largely a hypochondriac's answer to general ill health, probably due to diet and exercise. Switching to Glutino brand oreo cookies isn't going to solve anything, but its easier than a lifestyle overhaul. In my opinion anyway.


Ah, you mentioned a special word "hypochondriac". This is the problem, that those who require alternative diets are automatically stigmatised and I think this stigma is something that needs to be challenged.

The Cochrane review I mentioned was a meta-analysis that considered thousands of patients in a variety of conditions. It was only after examining all that evidence that the effect was found to be weak.

The biggest effect is not some magical (placebo) effect in the body because of the way we think, but simply misattribution of the cause of the changes, or simply or ticking different boxes on a questionnaire after changing things up.

Again, this is the whole reason why placebo controlled trials are done in the first place and the whole reason we should be sceptical non-placebo controlled trials or trials of psychological therapies that do no use objective measures in a addition to questionnaires.


----------



## Word Dispenser (May 18, 2012)

BlackDog said:


> In my opinion, its largely a crock.
> 
> Celiac is real, some level of sensitivity might be feel, but most people claiming to be either have no idea what they're talking about. Its marketing gold - slap a Gluten Free label on something and uninformed consumers will be all over it.
> 
> ...


Hehe, yeah. It's like those people who say they have migraines, and they only have headaches. Damn them for trivializing migraines. Migraines are like.. Fear-inducing, panic attacks on steroids. :bored:


----------



## BlackDog (Jan 6, 2012)

Word Dispenser said:


> Hehe, yeah. It's like those people who say they have migraines, and they only have headaches. Damn them for trivializing migraines. Migraines are like.. Fear-inducing, panic attacks on steroids. :bored:


Exactly. And people pretending to need special diets make it more difficult for those with legitimate allergies and sensitivities to be taken seriously. I know two Celiacs and two "Celiacs". The "Celiacs" have self diagnosed and refuse to see a doctor. I have absolutely no idea why - maybe the biopsy? I also know about a dozen other people who blame everything from their acne to their headaches on gluten, and a few who eat gluten free bread to try and lose weight. None of this is supported by anything other than "I read in a magazine..." or "my friend can't eat gluten".


----------



## Stelmaria (Sep 30, 2011)

See also:

A balanced look at gluten sensitivity « Science-Based Medicine



> What did the researchers conclude? Considering both arms of the study and the immunological testing that also took place, no evidence of gluten-specific effects were found in patients on a low-FODMAP diet. They did not conclude that gluten sensitivity does not exist, only that “gluten may not be a specific trigger of functional gut symptoms once dietary FODMAPs are reduced.”


----------

