# Requesting an objective personality typing



## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

@Near Lawliet

Actually, it might've been Jung who said: "Thinkers get their feelings hurt and feelers get their "thinkings" hurt." (credit to @LiquidLight for finding this gem somewhere!). Feelings aren't emotions - everyone and anyone can be emotional - that's so not the point of the F functions. They rationalize content in terms of evaluative value (e.g. good/bad, right/wrong, etc.). Did you see the part of the survey I quoted? The OP probably meant this at large.


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## Near Lawliet (Apr 21, 2011)

JungyesMBTIno said:


> @Near Lawliet
> 
> Actually, it might've been Jung who said: "Thinkers get their feelings hurt and feelers get their "thinkings" hurt." (credit to @LiquidLight for finding this gem somewhere!). Feelings aren't emotions - everyone and anyone can be emotional - that's so not the point of the F functions. They rationalize content in terms of evaluative value (e.g. good/bad, right/wrong, etc.). Did you see the part of the survey I quoted? The OP probably meant this at large.


I have but I find the questions on here too broad. The specifics one gives of personal experiences such as the "specific reply" to me I tend to trust more. He is concerned of his achievement as well as it being the most "logical choice" to disregard feelings so that is a sign of Te but if it was his ex who "convinced" him that is more of an perhaps not Fi but Fe? Though I doubt it may be a dominant function either Te/Ti or Fe/Fi? Do you find it possible that the original poster can be Ni/Ne dom? Just an idea to look at.


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## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

> He is concerned of his achievement as well as it being the most "logical choice" to disregard feelings so that is a sign of Te but if it was his ex who "convinced" him that is more of an perhaps not Fi but Fe? Though I doubt it may be a dominant function either Te/Ti or Fe/Fi? Do you find it possible that the original poster can be Ni/Ne dom? Just an idea to look at.


No one changes personality, end of story. The functions aren't tools - they are permanent mental processing filters. As I said before, I'm thinking either Ti or Te dom, with the chance that he could be a Te aux. Of course Fi types can take advice from others, but they will rationalize it with their feelings on their own terms - they aren't going to view someone else's advice as "objective feeling," which is Fe.


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## Jxuptosae (Apr 11, 2012)

I have missed a lot it seems, it's been a rather busy week/weekend. Thank you all for your input. If there is any specific clarification that is needed feel free to ask anything.

In regard to my ex, and the affect it had my personal views, I will say this: I wasn't convinced per say, but there was merit to the idea that disregarding emotions entirely makes one miss out on aspects of ones life. Considering that all of existence is pointless, the only real reason to struggle through the turmoils that come up is to savor moments of happiness. This is extremely simplified, but it is my sincere belief that all of existence is ultimately pointless. Considering eventually there will be nothing. So given that there is no inherent value in anything, it all becomes worth whatever arbitrary value you choose to give it. I chose to give it some value, fully acknowledging that this doesn't change the reality of it's worthlessness. 

Well, that was a little disjointed, but getting such abstract thoughts out with any clarity is rather difficult. Especially when it just makes sense you to. 

In regard to trusting emotions... emotions are erratic. The very nature of emotion is counter to rational thought. Trusting a twisting abstract that has nothing to do with actual fact, and is entirely based on perception is insane at best. 

Consider this, a strict mother who home-schools their child might believe that their separation from society coupled with the control the parent has over the direct direction of their education is something that will benefit the child. Now, this might be true, but what if the parent is an inept teacher and their perspectives on life are formed and directed by biases and past traumas? They may well FEEL that they are doing a great job, but the reality could well be different. This example is lacking, I will not deny that, but it is the premise that is important in this instance.

In regard to perception of right and wrong: Given there is ultimately only one answer on whether something is right or wrong, and given that our personal perceptions change which portions of the answer we are capable of viewing, I don't really have the faith in myself (or anyone else) to believe that my perceptions are right. So many things (as per my point of view) will all fall into a gray area. I have a great many examples on this front, but they are controversial and I do not feel like giving the opportunity for those tangents to get started.

Now, addressing right and wrong in regard to information that can be proven and cited, there will never be a gray area. It either is, or it isn't. 

I hope that this clarified my meaning a little, I know it isn't structured all that well, but I just wanted to get something out for you guys. After all, this is very much something I would like to figure out. I am still reading and researching the input provided, so watch out for edits! Thank you once again.

*One Function test:*

Cognitive Process	Level of Development (Preference, Skill and Frequency of Use)
extraverted Sensing (Se) ********* (9.1)
unused
introverted Sensing (Si) ***************************************** (41.5)
excellent use
extraverted Intuiting (Ne) ************************************* (37.3)
excellent use
introverted Intuiting (Ni) ************************************* (37.2)
excellent use
extraverted Thinking (Te) *********************************************** (47.9)
excellent use
introverted Thinking (Ti) ************************************************ (48.6)
excellent use
extraverted Feeling (Fe) (-0.199999999999999)
unused
introverted Feeling (Fi) ****************** (18.8)
limited use

*Another functions test:*

Extroversion (37%) / Introversion (62%)

Sensation (58%) / Intuition (78%)

Thinking (100%) / Feeling (0%)


Te (Extroverted Thinking) (70%) 
your valuation of / adherence to logic of external systems / hierarchies / methods

Ti (Introverted Thinking) (87%) 
your valuation of / adherence to your own internally devised logic/rational

Ne (Extroverted Intuition) (59%) 
your valuation of / tendency towards free association and creating with external stimuli

Ni (Introverted Intuition) (76%) 
your valuation of / tendency towards internal/original free association and creativity

Se (Extroverted Sensing) (32%) 
your valuation of / tendency to fully experience the world unfiltered, in the moment

Si (Introverted Sensing) (40%) 
your valuation of / focus on internal sensations and reliving past moments

Fe (Extroverted Feeling) (12%) 
your valuation of / adherence to external morals, ethics, traditions, customs, groups

Fi (Introverted Feeling) (45%) 
your valuation of / adherence to the sanctity of your own feelings / ideals / sentiment

I would provide more, but hopefully this helps. My results tend to be along the same theme, but withing that theme distribution depends on the test, and a host of other factors.


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## Near Lawliet (Apr 21, 2011)

Jxuptosae said:


> I have missed a lot it seems, it's been a rather busy week/weekend. Thank you all for your input. If there is any specific clarification that is needed feel free to ask anything.
> 
> In regard to my ex, and the affect it had my personal views, I will say this: I wasn't convinced per say, but there was merit to the idea that disregarding emotions entirely makes one miss out on aspects of ones life. Considering that all of existence is pointless, the only real reason to struggle through the turmoils that come up is to savor moments of happiness. This is extremely simplified, but it is my sincere belief that all of existence is ultimately pointless. Considering eventually there will be nothing. So given that there is no inherent value in anything, it all becomes worth whatever arbitrary value you choose to give it. I chose to give it some value, fully acknowledging that this doesn't change the reality of it's worthlessness.
> 
> ...


Seems you are a bit similar to me. But I concede the point that you don't seem like an Fi dominant. You fit INTP (a bit more) the most though you do have a somewhat high Fi and Ni on both scales but again your Ti is much higher on both so that is most likely your dominant. The higher than average Ni/Fi combination for an "INTP" is probably why you score as an INTJ at times (INTP: Ti-Ne-Si-Fe INTJ: Ni-Te-Fi-Se) so as you see you do have functions that do match the INTJ as well but after averaging it, I would vote for INTP. Hope that helps you.


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## Jxuptosae (Apr 11, 2012)

I was honestly expecting that response. My marriage had an effect, perhaps that is what evened out my scores so much. I have done a great deal of work over the last 10 years, although I never really knew on what. Generally it was with the goal of understanding a little more. Any input is still welcome. Thank you very much for your thoughts Near Lawliet.


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## Near Lawliet (Apr 21, 2011)

Jxuptosae said:


> I was honestly expecting that response. My marriage had an effect, perhaps that is what evened out my scores so much. I have done a great deal of work over the last 10 years, although I never really knew on what. Generally it was with the goal of understanding a little more. Any input is still welcome. Thank you very much for your thoughts Near Lawliet.


You're welcome but I feel I should ask. Why do you wish to know your type? Certainly you can get by in life without knowing it or even this forum. I never went through anything you did and I made a thread asking my type only to learn more about myself a bit out of pure curiosity since I personally believe that the self is important and you should know it but I have also come in terms that its not really your type that defines who you are. A bit of a philosophical ramble but is your reasoning to know your type similar to mine or is there something else since I get the feeling if you didn't care you wouldn't really follow up on your thread and update us on your functions.


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## Jxuptosae (Apr 11, 2012)

I love knowledgeable pursuit for the sake of it. I had also detected a change within myself, but that is something that I don't really feel in touch with. I figured if I got some input on the matter that understanding how and why it is the way it is I might be able to extract a great measure of potential from myself, and help me understand the reasons others function in the way that they do. I have been trying to balance a great many factors of self and the world for a very long time. I suppose it is also to help me feel that I have indeed made a difference with dedicated effort. Potential rather than being has become a larger part of my life focus, although potential is dictated by being, it isn't really limited by it. If that makes any sense.

Nothing will really define a person in and of itself, and I'm not really looking for a definition. I came to a lot of conclusions on my own, but an objective and un-invested opinion from others was called for. Perspective, personal bias, and expectation cause people to lie to themselves. I strive to avoid that.

Perhaps I am not quite one or the other yet.


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## Near Lawliet (Apr 21, 2011)

Jxuptosae said:


> I love knowledgeable pursuit for the sake of it. I had also detected a change within myself, but that is something that I don't really feel in touch with. I figured if I got some input on the matter that understanding how and why it is the way it is I might be able to extract a great measure of potential from myself, and help me understand the reasons others function in the way that they do. I have been trying to balance a great many factors of self and the world for a very long time. I suppose it is also to help me feel that I have indeed made a difference with dedicated effort. Potential rather than being has become a larger part of my life focus, although potential is dictated by being, it isn't really limited by it. If that makes any sense.
> 
> Nothing will really define a person in and of itself, and I'm not really looking for a definition. I came to a lot of conclusions on my own, but an objective and un-invested opinion from others was called for. Perspective, personal bias, and expectation cause people to lie to themselves. I strive to avoid that.


Makes perfect sense. More why I like looking into typing characters/people now. Just for the sake of knowledge and to unlock potential both within myself and that person if they wish for that. In either case glad I could help and feel free to mention, reply, or PM me if you need me for anything else. Gotta like the forum that way since its easy to keep in touch with people on here and more than one way to get a hold of them. No idea your time zone but I am off to bed.


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## Jxuptosae (Apr 11, 2012)

I just noticed that I got a negative value on one of the tests for extroverted feeling. This is humorous. I would still appreciate input, come one come all. Test your hand at unraveling the inner workings of a complete stranger! I advise you look through these few pages, there is a wealth of information. Or, a proposition for the bold, ask any question you will!


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## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

Okay, the questions for Ni, Fi, Fe, and Te on the tests are horrendously inaccurate, not gonna lie (Hello, I'm an Ni dom, so I should know crap about Ni when I see it). Thing is, Fe types are going to have their own "personal" feelings, but they personalize them based on external standards. The F functions aren't values in-and-of-themselves, like these stupid tests make them out to be. It's about how you evaluate - in a self-referencing way, or based on some type of external standard. INTPs are almost entirely Fe users, since Fi is their last and least active function. The F functions are highly misunderstood around the internet, where Fe becomes "the sheeple" function, while Fi become the "wonderfully authentic, non-conformist, sincere" function (LOL - I know some real jerks who are Fi types, so don't even get me started on the negative sides of Fi that no one ever talks about). I don't know what's up with the Ni questions, but they're pretty vague and poorly differentiated from Ne, while Te suffers the same general issue as Fe, being made out to be a "sheeple" function, where, of course it entails a lot of independent thinking, but it will reason off of external standards, which is not at all the same thing as "agreeing with group consensus," whatever the f**k that means (I know I don't do that) - the functions are all a lot more complicated than actions, so the cognitive function tests pretty much fail with testing them, since they are based around actions, rather than mental processing. Those tests way underestimate peoples' ability to be introspective and falsely assume that the functions are "actions," rather than mental perspectives. They're usually only accurate down to the first two functions in a person's type (and occasionally the inferior), but if you rely on them strictly, you're probably not going to get anywhere with them. It's best to look at them as a rough estimate, which is how they work best, since most people really aren't going to go too wrong on determining which functions define their ego if they are honest.


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## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

Also, on a side note, the cognitive function tests are actually fine on a shallow level (and I think that's their purpose anyway, just to simplify what a person already knows about cognitive functions or help them start with them to get them their result via them being honest, if you check out the one put out by Nardi, who makes it clear that you basically can't go by surface behavior or what you value). With my current knowledge of them, the tests work well for me, but not knowing what they're getting at is bound to be problematic. They aren't meant to be taken as "the ultimate truth" about how much a person "uses" cognitive functions - their purpose it to help a person out or to gain more confidence that they are a certain type.


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## Jxuptosae (Apr 11, 2012)

@JungyesMBTIno I know. That is why I neglected to include it initially. It wasn't until someone asked that I decided to provide some results. I hadn't taken one before I posted those because (as should be obvious) I don't trust some internet test. That is largely why I decided to seek out a place where I could ask a large number of people more proficient than I do so some analysis. (I also have a tendency to word things a little more gently through a written/typed medium.) The only thing that is really through me off is my perspective on relationship. Given I have one had one that was serious, and given that it all panned out the way it did, I'm not sure if that is an anomaly or my common reaction. I do not intend to test it any further, however. Thank you for your response. 

Would you like to give it a shot then? I appreciate any and all input.

(To clarify, I notice your posts, but you haven't made your thought on how it all comes to together clear. Most of your posts are informational/corrective.)


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## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

@Jxuptosae

Well dude, I think the answer to you typologically is pretty simple, based on the info you gave. You are probably a dominant thinking type who represses feeling (to an unhealthy degree, I might add). You pretty much confessed to this several times, about how feelings and emotions are irrational and unreliable, and how only objective thought and approaching people with objective intentions is the key to getting through your life. Your cognitive function tests reflect this also. Your approach is basically the definition of inferior feeling. As for whether you're a Te dominant or a Ti dominant, first off, are you an introvert or extravert? Secondly, are you more comfortable organizing the outer world logically, or analyzing your thoughts for consistency? Since you said something about being depressed, your shadow type might be coming out a bit, making this hard to figure out. To me, you sound like more of a dominant Te type (approaching the outer world with cold logic and expecting everything and everyone's responses to be of some logical gain, while your feelings are moreso no ones business but your own) - IXTPs, being Fe types, are going to approach the outer world with the sense that interactions are about establishing camaraderie based on shared values, even though this is an area they tend to have trouble with, due to it being inferior). Your CF scores put N ahead of S, so I'm thinking ENTJ for you first, followed by INTP or maybe INTJ (although you seem to repress feelings over sensation big-time). What do you think?


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## Jxuptosae (Apr 11, 2012)

It was mentioned before, but I think perhaps I do have some sort of complex about emotion. (While I do discount it, it is hard to believe that such a force within the scope of human existence is to be discounted entirely.) I believe that trying to organize the outer world to be an exercise in futility. The only component in this world that I can control and understand with absolute certainty is myself. I then use the perspective I gain to analyze the world around me. In regard to people, I expect nothing. People will think, or fail to, and things will happen. I do to some measure expect things to follow a logical order, which they do, and although I understand many perspectives, there is always a "right" way to do things. I tend to view my way as the right way. In regard to approaching the outer world to establish camaraderie.. I think not. I do enjoy having friends, I would also prefer to have less than 5 at all times. I hold my friends in extremely high regard, and although they might not think so, I divulge a large number of my personal feelings and expectations. I would rather not, but sometimes it is necessary. 

I also have no expectation of being understood, and for the large majority of the time I neither care, nor actively try to have anyone understand what my thoughts are, and what they mean in regard to the world around us. When I do care, it because almost paramount that the individual does understand, and I will go above and beyond in my efforts to make it happen. (Rather than let it happen, which is an important distinction.) In the classic sense, I am an introvert. In regard to my expression of thought, that is much harder to say. I spend the majority of my time focusing on what my perception is, why it is the way that it is, and how that relates to my experiences, and how I should expect it to relate to future ones, how I would like it to, and how to make that happen. This is something I evaluate almost constantly, with special attention placed on the "why" part of it. Although past experience is something I view a little strangely (as far as I am told). Past events are now facts, and as such, should be devoid of emotion upon recollection, and what you were feeling at the time is now a side note, an attribute of that times portrait. 

I apologize if this is a little less than linear. These are hard things to express, and I have placed a great deal of effort to express it all clearly, but an not entirely certain that I have succeeded.


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## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

@Jxuptosae

Type isn't about what you "believe," it's about what you do and why - natural tendencies. That way, we can avoid typing your persona. So, you're pretty much wasting my time with the ideological stuff, no offense. How misunderstood you expect to be has nothing to do with it. Now, I'm getting the sense that you're an INTJ, dominant perception type, since you talk a lot about perception, you're an introvert, and you approach the outer world expecting logical consequences from your actions. Do you have more of a "my feelings are my business" approach to feelings, or a "my feelings are other people's business" approach to your feelings? The former is characteristic of Fi, while the latter is characteristic of Fe. Truly, I highly doubt you're an INTP if you don't view the past with any sense of nostalgia, which is a characteristic of that type.


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## Jxuptosae (Apr 11, 2012)

Thank you for your forthrightness. I am not sure how to answer most of these questions, so to do so honestly and accurately I include information that I feel is relevant. It's good to know what isn't working. Although I like to believe I do not have a persona. Or at least I try not to. I can't really say. 

My feelings are my business.

Your responses are insightful. 

Following is something you may want to ignore, as it is relates to ideology.

I use the term "believe" such as in "I like to believe I am intelligent" as a means of avoiding appearing arrogant. Habit I suppose. In another regard, used "I believe that events will happen in a manner discernible by the structure and nature of past events," is just as much a part of who I am as "I feel (insert emotion) when XYZ". As inner workings are more important in this matter than actions, as you have stated, so thoughts that will relate to actions are valid.


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## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

@Jxuptosae

Heh, you definitely have a persona - everyone does (it's something that's so obvious, that it's easy to overlook, lol, and yours seems to be coming off as a hardcore intellectual), but I was able to catch that leaking into a lot of your answers, so I thought I'd point that out, since personality types aren't personas. A lot of types might have your outlook or beliefs or approach toward people, so that wasn't helping me at all, in light of my knowledge on personality type theories. In fact, your persona seems to be coloring your responses a lot, such as you're looking at all of this through what you think you should believe, rather than through observations you've made about your natural tendencies. I mean, at this point, I have no reason not to think that you're anything but a Te-Fi type, since you've basically answered yes to all of those questions. INTJs or ENTJs don't HAVE to have to have a "hardcore intellectual image" - hell, you could be an ISTP for all I know based on that reasoning (like Jung, the brilliant likely ISTP, lol). I think you'll have to get more into the inferior function if you want to get more confident with your type, because that's the side of a person that can't be successfully masked by a persona. At this point, I'm thinking ENTJ or INTJ, but to be an ENTJ, you must have inferior Fi, while to be an INTJ, you must have inferior Se. Is there any you can come up with right off the bat that feels more foreign to you?


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## Jxuptosae (Apr 11, 2012)

I would say Se.

And that is something to think on. If they way I communicate is just a persona, there is some serious revision to be done.


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## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

@Jxuptosae

Well, it might not even be that it's an issue with you - I mean, if you're a beginner at this stuff, how would you know how to answer these questions. I started out rather similarly, having no way to figure out what the system was getting at at first, so I basically resorted to beliefs and stuff that I feel defines me - that's pretty normal if you're starting out, since the MBTI tests and such wrongly assume that "you know yourself better than anyone or anything else." There's nothing wrong with having a persona necessarily (although they can be limiting), but this stuff is supposed to take a person beyond that (it's about self discovery and self exploration), which I wish the stupid tests would just come right out and tell you in the first place.


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## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

@Jxuptosae

You know, actually, you're enneagram type might actually explain a lot more about your behavior than your personality type, particularly the way you handle feelings, which actually comes off as pretty 5w6, if you read up about it more.


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