# Sx/So: Myth vs Reality



## Starflakes

Bluity said:


> This reminds me of Maslow's hierarchy of needs, where the bottom layer represents all the basic, essentials needs, which the other needs use it as a foundation. My SP is the basis for all other instincts; it needs to be satiated before I indulge in other areas. SX is like the candy top to the food pyramid; I barely use it and could even live without it as long as the SP and SO are fulfilled.


Yes. Exactly. For me it's the same but in the reverse. For me my SX is at the bottom of the pyramid and when it's satisfied then I can enjoy the other areas of the pyramid. SP is at the top for me and I could even do without it as long as my SX and SO are fulfilled. Heck even if my SX alone is fulfilled I could maybe even do without my SO as well.


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## Starflakes

Vanishing Point said:


> Well I read the "official description" in the OP and frankly I don't see anything in it that would not apply to myself despite being a four and an INFJ.
> Lust for life- Check
> Seemingly extroverted I suppose meaning social ease- Yep.
> Seeking to make an impact and being in the central figure. - Applies.
> Radical philosophies, causes etc- applies.
> Visible in public eye- yes.
> The sex thing. - Applies.
> It all applies to me.
> I don't know. I don't see anything wrong or out of place with the description or a need to modify it personally. It's spot on. Myth and reality meet.
> ????


I actually relate a lot to the original as well but I _*definitely*_ see where the OP was coming from. I could see how someone could easily mistype. It depends on how you interpret the description and I feel like the original description could be easily misinterpreted and the OP did a great job of clarifying. For example, when it comes to the public eye thing, for myself personally, I hate being the center of attention at social gatherings but I wouldn't have a problem being in the public eye (i.e. being famous) in order to create political change. Depending on how I choose to interpret "public eye" I could either relate to it or not relate to it.


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## Neokortex

kaleidoscope said:


> An amusing analogy I've thought of just the other day that may be really accurate to describe the Sx/So stacking:
> 
> Considering that Sx/So uses the social instinct - such as establishing and strengthening connections with people in your environment, making your presence felt, establishing yourself within the social network, being aware of those dynamics and using them to your advantage - in order to fulfill the sexual instinct, the analogy that came to mind for me has been thinking of the Sx/So stackings as a *spider*. You weave your web, not for the sake of expanding those connections themselves or any fulfillment you derive out of that process, but for the ultimate purpose of catching the fly. It doesn't have to be as calculated, but I'd say the analogy of setting up and expanding that web of connections in order to zero in on the one or two people you want to connect with and devour is pretty spot on.
> 
> @*Animal* @*Swordsman of Mana* @*mushr00m* @*Jamaia* - or anyone else. Thoughts?


Haha, good analogy, they sew their webs because they're afraid venturing out on their own hunting as a lonewolf. D


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## not enough

Great thread, I was very confused by the ocean moonshine description of the Sx/So 4 and it took me a long time to discover my stacking.

I'm quite sure now that my blind spot is sp since I normally don't think about sp issues but are much more concerned with so and sx problems. Exceptions are periods where I am suddenly panic-stricken that I will not be able to finish my master properly, write my master thesis, organise the move... and especially that I don't bring the necessary skills/ knowledge to get and keep a job. I only develop practical skills when there is big pressure from my sx & so instincts, e.g. if I am convinced it's unattractive to not be able to drive a car I take some effort to gain more experience. Or if I think it is attractive to be able to cook well or to keep in shape, I will be frustrated that I did not spend more time doing sports etc. But normally I would only try to change that for a very short time and then I would get so bored and frustrated that I couldn't go on.
I do get by in life up till now but I was also raised very strictly and know how to take responsibility.




kaleidoscope said:


> The truth is, what makes me an Sx/So is first and foremost the fact that I *use the social instinct in order to satisfy my Sx.* This is called the _interplay _between your instincts, and is one important thing to focus on when trying to find your instinctual variants. How does that work? When my need for intimacy is met, I don't really bother going out there & "recruiting" people. I'm not a socialite. I don't glide through social interactions effortlessly all the time. I don't _need_ to satisfy my social instinct in a compulsive way, though I admit that I like being in touch with the social world. Social coming in second makes it an area I indulge freely, without any form of neurosis around it. My Sx on the other hand, is what rules me. It's the *one* thing I need to satisfy all the time, like a bottomless well. I always need more, and more, and more. When there's a deficiency in my Sx, I feel.. empty. Restless. Hence why I use the social instinct to quench my Sx thirst.
> 
> As a 4w3, I'm not extremely comfortable or smooth in social matters, because I automatically separate myself from everyone else and am more likely to observe rather than be incredibly social. Social instinct matters are not *an area of concern* to me either. If anything, when I need to connect, I'm very willing to get out there, talk to people, get to know them, and keep the ones I have that special chemistry with. In a way, it's like throwing a fish net out there, and then weeding out the people that don't feed my Sx.
> 
> Giving the example of some sort of social event: I tend to focus on one person, or maybe two that really catch my attention. All of my focus is solely on them, on a way to attract their attention somehow. To do so, I may observe and see the kinds of people they interact with, how social and engaging they are, their status maybe and how I can use that to my advantage, as a way to eventually introduce myself. This is an example of how I use my social instinct as a way to serve my sexual instinct, but naturally I don't really pay attention to these things. There has to be a reason, an ultimate purpose - Sx.


I wish I would be more like that and less socially conscious. For me it seems to work (sometimes unconsciously) that way- if I can keep my inclusion and popularity within the group, my potential mate or a potential new friend will perceive me as attractive and as someone you would like to be around. As soon as I can connect with someone meaningful, I will concentrate totally on that someone and have to be very careful not to be too clingy. That's the same with interesting topics that might arise in the group- I get so excited that I must try hard to stay connected with what the group wants and not just to blurt out what comes to my mind. When I was younger, this did not work very well for me. Nowadays I have a bit more self-control. 
When I start to feel some kind of rejection or pull-out of the special person I was spending time with, I try to appear independent. I get myself immediately oriented towards the group again and try to include myself by finding someone to talk to. Of course, this can sometimes be quite exhausting, depending on the group I'm involved with. As a four, I am anxious about maintaining my individual and cultured image. So I can also be shy or enigmatic to protect my idealized self-image.
Nevertheless, during the last years I have been involved in several social causes that are important to me and for the development of my ideal society. This includes e.g. voluntary work for an international organization that enables the exchange of worldwide internships or potential analysis of teenagers concerning their professional abilities, interests and possibilities. These kind of things energize me and give my life a purpose. If I'm not involved in an important cause or close relationships including a romantic partner, I can easily feel empty and consumed by all the meaninglessness of life.


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## Neokortex

not enough said:


> As soon as I can connect with someone meaningful, I will concentrate totally on that someone and have to be very careful not to be too clingy. (...) When I start to feel some kind of rejection or pull-out of the special person I was spending time with, I try to appear independent. I get myself immediately oriented towards the group again and try to include myself by finding someone to talk to. Of course, this can sometimes be quite exhausting, depending on the group I'm involved with.


Awww! No wonder why it feels like chasing chicken! xDDDD The clinginess btw, isn't that something more like an INFP quick infatuation/idealisation thing? You'd keep yourself back - isn't that a form of self-pres? I think guys are more like Sp blind spot and leave their group for that special someone, sometimes as far as the bushes xDDDDD


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## not enough

Neokortex said:


> Awww! No wonder why it feels like chasing chicken! xDDDD The clinginess btw, isn't that something more like an INFP quick infatuation/idealisation thing? You'd keep yourself back - isn't that a form of self-pres? I think guys are more like Sp blind spot and leave their group for that special someone, sometimes as far as the bushes xDDDDD


Not sure what you mean by chasing chicken, maybe it's just not surpassing my English-german language barrier. I don't know about the INFP clingy thing, where did you get that from? 

Keeping myself back is not for the concern of my self-pres instinct, I don't seem to care about that at all. I've taken a lot of risks in my life to satisfy my sexual instinct including, at a younger age, being engaged in unsafe sexual practices just for the rush and for feeling connected to someone, so I guess, nope. I sometimes keep myself back for the concern of being perceived as undesirable by my object of desire. I'm anxious that he/she might think that I am addicted to him/her (which is actually true concerning my mind games) which would make me an unattractive person. So I engage in a push-pull seduction game to maintain control and to be sure that only my positive qualities will be perceived. Actually this is why I'm not sure if I'm really being a w5 because I think this behaviour can be quite typical of type 3 - they seem to leave a situation when they feel that their successful image is threatened.

Here is an interesting quote from Socionics - the16types.info - Instinctual Stackings

_The *dominant variant* is the one given top priority, since this is the instinct that the person is most attuned to. It represents an overarching preoccupation, and may even remain overarching in situations where a reasonable person would at least temporarily rearrange his priorities. There is certain rigidity to this instinct—it is non-negotiable; its needs must be satisfied. We are highly attuned to the needs of this instinct in ourselves and in others, however, as one moves down the health levels, the priorities of this instinct may become overly compulsive. Dominant instinct will grip your attention, cause sleepless nights, it is where your buttons get pushed, where you may start compensating. One may conceal the needs of this instinct and instead put the secondary instinct on display, since primary instinct serves as a greater source of anxiety than the secondary instinct. It may be said that a person comes to embody his or her primary instinct._

The sleepless nights were an eye-opener for me. It always takes some time for me to fall asleep since my thoughts are occupied with intense scenarios that stimulate me emotionally and that help to escape mundane reality. Or sometimes I am frustrated about all the fascinating opportunities I miss in my life and how I could be much happier. I know from my self-pres friends that they can get very anxious before falling to sleep thinking about things they forgot to do or they have to do the next day, they worry about keeping their job or passing the exam, about their security, about practical issues...

As it says here, one can conceal the needs of the primary instinct and instead use the secondary instinct because it feels much safer. This is what I often do- I do not approach my person of interest directly but I first engage in the group activities. When I feel that it's appropriate to approach, I make my move. But I was also told that I am very flirty while I was thinking I was actually acting rather discreet so I guess that appropriate thing does not always work out very well.

_*Summary of SX instinct:* ... coping methods (unhealthy) - scattered attention, lack of focus, sexual promiscuity, intensely avoiding intense experiences and connections with a fearful and dysfunctional attitude toward sex, intimacy, and other intense "completing" experiences, as is skewed by the secondary instinct_

I remember being like this when I was young- I normally avoided my crush and could behave quite aloof because I was scared he would find out how defective I was.


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## Neokortex

not enough said:


> Not sure what you mean by chasing chicken, maybe it's just not surpassing my English-german language barrier. I don't know about the INFP clingy thing, where did you get that from?
> 
> Keeping myself back is not for the concern of my self-pres instinct, I don't seem to care about that at all. I've taken a lot of risks in my life to satisfy my sexual instinct including, at a younger age, being engaged in unsafe sexual practices just for the rush and for feeling connected to someone, so I guess, nope. I sometimes keep myself back for the concern of being perceived as undesirable by my object of desire. I'm anxious that he/she might think that I am addicted to him/her (which is actually true concerning my mind games) which would make me an unattractive person. So I engage in a push-pull seduction game to maintain control and to be sure that only my positive qualities will be perceived. Actually this is why I'm not sure if I'm really being a w5 because I think this behaviour can be quite typical of type 3 - they seem to leave a situation when they feel that their successful image is threatened.
> 
> 
> * *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is an interesting quote from Socionics - the16types.info - Instinctual Stackings
> 
> _The *dominant variant* is the one given top priority, since this is the instinct that the person is most attuned to. It represents an overarching preoccupation, and may even remain overarching in situations where a reasonable person would at least temporarily rearrange his priorities. There is certain rigidity to this instinct—it is non-negotiable; its needs must be satisfied. We are highly attuned to the needs of this instinct in ourselves and in others, however, as one moves down the health levels, the priorities of this instinct may become overly compulsive. Dominant instinct will grip your attention, cause sleepless nights, it is where your buttons get pushed, where you may start compensating. One may conceal the needs of this instinct and instead put the secondary instinct on display, since primary instinct serves as a greater source of anxiety than the secondary instinct. It may be said that a person comes to embody his or her primary instinct._
> 
> The sleepless nights were an eye-opener for me. It always takes some time for me to fall asleep since my thoughts are occupied with intense scenarios that stimulate me emotionally and that help to escape mundane reality. Or sometimes I am frustrated about all the fascinating opportunities I miss in my life and how I could be much happier. I know from my self-pres friends that they can get very anxious before falling to sleep thinking about things they forgot to do or they have to do the next day, they worry about keeping their job or passing the exam, about their security, about practical issues...
> 
> As it says here, one can conceal the needs of the primary instinct and instead use the secondary instinct because it feels much safer. This is what I often do- I do not approach my person of interest directly but I first engage in the group activities. When I feel that it's appropriate to approach, I make my move. But I was also told that I am very flirty while I was thinking I was actually acting rather discreet so I guess that appropriate thing does not always work out very well.
> 
> _*Summary of SX instinct:* ... coping methods (unhealthy) - scattered attention, lack of focus, sexual promiscuity, intensely avoiding intense experiences and connections with a fearful and dysfunctional attitude toward sex, intimacy, and other intense "completing" experiences, as is skewed by the secondary instinct_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I remember being like this when I was young- I normally avoided my crush and could behave quite aloof because I was scared he would find out how defective I was.





> This is what I often do- I do not approach my person of interest directly but I first engage in the group activities. When I feel that it's appropriate to approach, I make my move.


Oh yeah, oooh yeah. A lot of it rings true... compared to what I could pick up from these flirty people IRL. Could you write us a scenario, a case when you got really reckless and risky? What I could think of is hitting the bar. Get a couple of drinks and yadiyadiyada. But in the protection of your half-real pseudo-best friends, it kinda sounds easy pie. To me.

Actually, from my perspective there seems to be a sort of a special groundlessness for the Sx/Sos. They flirt with words, they bluff all the time, they are doing these broad strokes, smoothing over the details and concrete (self-pres) down to earth difficulties. That's their charm, they can make people believe that collectively acting upon something, doing a change will lead to results. And with the chemistry as well. Check out so melicious on YT. Like she had nothing to loose to gossip like that. I also have that blurt out info from private life thing but then it feels bad later. Actually one of my "agents" I contact to mediate me towards companies for student work is like her. I never know where I actually stand with her bc she avoids to be... real? They're elusive, probably hiding their flaws but definitely not the concrete scientist type of material, who foregoes social conventions and taboos and tastes to bring about some objective "raw" truth. Sx/Sos are more like negotiators. Finding the balance between people, making the weirdos engage in working for the greater good. But in the social scene, in live, they aren't the engineers to meet the harsh (physical, quantifiable) (or some deeper social problems everybody avoids) facts of reality to see how we'll actually get to that ideal.


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## autumnf4lls

are there any other INTP sx/so people here? Ive been confused for an ENFP before, and I think this is why


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## Zelus

autumnf4lls said:


> are there any other INTP sx/so people here? Ive been confused for an ENFP before, and I think this is why


INTP sx here. 

Not _entirely_ sure about the SO because sometimes it really does feel like I've got not one but two blindspots to choose from. I think it's a 4/5 ish thing where both SP and SO seem somewhat atrophied or underdeveloped. That said, I do sort of like the idea of being liked and respected in what I do, and making a difference to the wider world while I'm at it (although 99% of the time I can't be bothered to do anything about it). Whereas I typically don't feel anything about SP stuff at all, much less want anything to do with it.


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