# Huge anxiety about alcohol/drugs, partner wishes to use them



## Ecky (Dec 6, 2010)

My partner and I have been together for just under 3 years and have had an almost textbook-perfect relationship until recently, when we came to disagree about something, and now we're having some huge problems. I need some advice.

First, some background:

I grew up in a family that was destroyed by drugs and alcohol. My home was raided by the FBI when I was 4 and my father was taken to prison for growing marijuana. My mother divorced him shortly afterward, and raised me and my sister alone. My mother has had 4 DUIs and my father, 3, and both have been in and out of jail/prison throughout my life for various drug and alcohol related offenses. My father was largely absentee/neglectful (pothead, "mild" alcoholic), my mother abusive and unpredictable (extreme alcoholic). I escaped at 16 and went to live with my grandparents, who were a boring old couple who ran the local chapter of alcoholics anonymous, having both been alcoholics themselves. Most of my extended family have or had problems with drug abuse. Some combination of my personal experiences and my grandparents' beliefs have conditioned me to be extremely anxious when it comes to drugs and alcohol, and as a result I'm straight-edge. 

I've been out of that situation for almost 8 years (24 now) and have become a functional and happy human. My coping mechanism was to push away those who would hurt me, and run away from those I couldn't push away, and until now it has actually worked pretty well, surprisingly. 


My partner (married 2 years ago) has a pretty messed up family as well. He mother (highschool dropout) decided to go back to school to become a dentist when my partner was around 8 and was largely absentee. She was pulled out of public school around 5th grade by her controlling yet emotionally unavailable stepfather who had helped her mother out of a relationship with a bipolar abusive alcoholic (partner's biological father), and was home-schooled with her two siblings (sister 1 year older and brother 1 year younger). She had a dream to become a writer, but her stepfather decided to live vicariously through her (he is a failed writer and musician) and forced her to write upward of 20 pages per day, until she came to hate it. Her brother has been baker acted twice for attempted suicide through drug overdose and was thrown out of the house at 17 because of his "resistance to authority", and her sister has a chronic, life-threatening illness that puts her in the hospital for months at a time and has caused her emotional maturity to lag well behind her physical age. She has a fair amount of extended family who have problems with drugs too.

My partner struggles with depression (everyone in her family has been formally diagnosed with it) but has been highly functional and happy since we got our own place and was away from the influence of her unhappy nuclear family.

___


When we met, I asked her not to drink or do drugs, because I am very sensitive to them, and we have both been straight edge since. We have now been together for close to 3 years, and recently she began to bring up the topic of drugs and alcohol to me again with the idea that she might be able to experiment with them, safely, or perhaps have a glass of wine or a hit with her friends so she doesn't feel left out - she has big problems with peer pressure and some mild social anxiety. I had a panic attack the first time this came up. We have talked quite a bit over the past few weeks, to where I feel she has a more healthy caution for harder drugs like mushrooms and LSD and is disinclined to try them now because of the dangers (as I perceive them) but I can't rationalize why, for her personal safety, she shouldn't be able to at least try pot and alcohol in moderation. All I have is my irrational fears/phobia about drugs - and she feels like she can use them to where it won't personally affect me (out of sight, out of mind). 

Since then we have had some problems where she feels like I am trying to control what she does (perhaps she sees some of her father's controlling nature in me? though it feels like self-defense), and I am terrified of letting drugs and alcohol back into my life at all, to the point where I have "flight" responses when I think about it too long. So far we've been unable to find any middle-ground. 

___

I'd like to add that we have been seeing a therapist regarding this, but the sessions are very limited, by both our insurance and our schedule. I'm looking for some advice, feedback, maybe even some cutting sarcasm. I don't know if either of us can be talked through our fears/issues, but I'm unable to budge without serious emotional trauma (I've been trying!) and she hasn't been able to come to terms with the fact that this "choice" is seemingly out of her hands.

I will probably invite her to read this thread, so please keep that in mind when responding! Try to be helpful to both of us.


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## Diphenhydramine (Apr 9, 2010)

I think maybe it sounds like trust, obviously growing up in that kind of household isn't good for your attitude towards alcohol - but millions, maybe even billions of people around the globe use it in an ordinary way - trust, or perhaps if not that, just bet statistically that it won't effect your partner - I think that probably once it has happened once it may be easier for you to accept it again. I would say trust because she must know how important this is for you and she must have confidence in her ability not to get drawn into anything ~negative~ and confidence in the trust you have in her otherwise would she even have brought it up at all?


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## RaidenPrime (Aug 4, 2012)

In event she is actually struggling with anxiety issues, why not encourage her to get help for it (n/m I just saw you guys are in therapy)? Maybe drink kava tea or something. Hookah is also a good alternative to marijuana. You could encourage her to try those. 

A drink or two is reasonable but combining marijuana and alcohol never ends up well. If it was me I would be planning a way out - having grown up in similar situations I wouldn't compromise my own health happiness and safety for drugs.


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## Spades (Aug 31, 2011)

Something to consider: All drugs are not created equal.

Is it addiction you are concerned about or psychological effects?

Alcohol is very addictive but not psychologically intense.
Marijuana is mildly addictive and mildly intense.
LSD and mushrooms are very non-addictive but very psychologically intense.
The list goes on.

Definitely some things to consider.


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## Ecky (Dec 6, 2010)

Thanks for your replies so far!



Diphenhydramine said:


> I think maybe it sounds like trust, obviously growing up in that kind of household isn't good for your attitude towards alcohol - but millions, maybe even billions of people around the globe use it in an ordinary way - trust, or perhaps if not that, just bet statistically that it won't effect your partner - I think that probably once it has happened once it may be easier for you to accept it again. I would say trust because she must know how important this is for you and she must have confidence in her ability not to get drawn into anything ~negative~ and confidence in the trust you have in her otherwise would she even have brought it up at all?



As far as I'm aware, considering her background, she actually (statistically) has a poor chance of being able to manage it. Family history of alcoholism + drug abuse and personal issues with depression and anxiety don't make it impossible for her to manage it but the equation is definitely skewed. Regardless of how I feel about her personal safety with these substances though, I have a strong self-defense type fear/phobia kicking in that makes me want to distance myself from anyone using these substances. Simply talking about the idea is near enough to send me into a panic attack sometimes. I know it's unhealthy and something I need to work on, but the same is true of her feelings about having freedom to do what she wants for her own reasons. 

We have established that right now, my fears about it make it pretty much not an option as I can't function if I'm constantly panicking. I don't know if I can "get better" because I don't know how to yet, there isn't a clear path to it. She has agreed to refrain but we both know that she's very unhappy for it. 



RaidenPrime said:


> In event she is actually struggling with anxiety issues, why not encourage her to get help for it (n/m I just saw you guys are in therapy)? Maybe drink kava tea or something. Hookah is also a good alternative to marijuana. You could encourage her to try those.
> 
> A drink or two is reasonable but combining marijuana and alcohol never ends up well. If it was me I would be planning a way out - having grown up in similar situations I wouldn't compromise my own health happiness and safety for drugs.



I don't think she would want to combine them, but the issue for her is the choice to do so, if she so chooses, using her own judgement on a case to case basis (even if it is "never"). Even if I felt I could emotionally handle it, compromise isn't going to work for her. I spoke with her just a few minutes ago about seeing a separate counselor for working on her anxiety, so that might happen though. 



Spades said:


> Something to consider: All drugs are not created equal.
> 
> Is it addiction you are concerned about or psychological effects?
> 
> ...



Different fears relating to different substances, and of varying degrees. I have no idea how to get over my traumas. The thought of her using drugs hits me as hard as how most people probably feel about cheating. 


I don't think we're in immediate risk but neither is happy about the current status-quo.


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## Spades (Aug 31, 2011)

Ecky said:


> Different fears relating to different substances, and of varying degrees. I have no idea how to get over my traumas. The thought of her using drugs hits me as hard as how most people probably feel about cheating.
> 
> 
> I don't think we're in immediate risk but neither is happy about the current status-quo.



Ah, the issue sounds more like your trauma than likelihood of addiction. As someone who has anxiety disorders, the best thing I ever learned in therapy was gradual exposure! I know it probably sounds like the scariest thing in the world, but if you can set up a situation that is less-than panic inducing and expose yourself to it for long enough to see that it isn't harmful, then repeat over and over until you are ready to move on to a "scarier" situation, eventually the trauma will subside.

I've said this as if it was easy. The technique is tricky, and I definitely recommend CBT. The thing that worries me is therapists taking the "don't do drugs" side, which will ultimately only reinforce the fear. That's not to say you/her need to do drugs to get over it, but perhaps things like positive documentaries about drugs, etc.


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## dragthewaters (Feb 9, 2013)

I'm going to be blunt and tactless in my response, just warning you, because I feel it's what you need. I hope you don't take offense.



Ecky said:


> When we met, I asked her not to drink or do drugs, because I am very sensitive to them


So you decided to dictate her behavior w/r/t something that really has nothing to do with you, just because of your personal hang-up? Your girlfriend must be really understanding. Put yourself in her shoes and think about how you would feel if, for example, your girlfriend demanded that you become a vegan just because she is one, or that you give up a favorite hobby just because she doesn't like it, or that you not go on vacation to a certain place because she doesn't want you to go there.



Ecky said:


> We have now been together for close to 3 years, and recently she began to bring up the topic of drugs and alcohol to me again with the idea that she might be able to experiment with them, safely, or perhaps have a glass of wine or a hit with her friends so she doesn't feel left out.


So she can't even have a SINGLE glass of wine because of you? What you have to realize is that what happened in your family is not what happens 99.9% of the time people drink or even do "soft drugs." It sounds like your girlfriend has a good sense of boundaries and what she is proposing to experiment with is WAY less than what most people her age or younger are doing. And also, just being realistic, if she went 3 years with you being straight-edge and has gotten to her mid-20s without experimenting with drugs and alcohol at all, I HIGHLY doubt she's going to become addicted. People who become addicted usually start early while their brain is still developing.



Ecky said:


> Since then we have had some problems where she feels like I am trying to control what she does (perhaps she sees some of her father's controlling nature in me? though it feels like self-defense), and I am terrified of letting drugs and alcohol back into my life at all, to the point where I have "flight" responses when I think about it too long. So far we've been unable to find any middle-ground.


That's because you *are* controlling her.



Ecky said:


> and she hasn't been able to come to terms with the fact that this "choice" is seemingly out of her hands.


Yeah, and there's no reason why she should. This choice should not be out of her hands. It's her life, not yours. If your relationship is really as picture-perfect as you say then you should be able to trust her. When a partner is controlling in a relationship, it's due to a lack of trust. And from what I see she has given you no concrete reason to distrust her.

I know that you have major psychological hang-ups about this, but this is a hands-on version of exposure therapy. You can't just go through life pretending people don't drink or do drugs and cutting people off whenever they do, even if they have no addiction problems. This is basically the same thing as the guy who won't let his girlfriend hang out with anyone because he's afraid she's going to cheat on him.

So, in conclusion: if you truly trust her, you will release this hold on her and let her make her own decisions. If not, then I think you should seriously re-evaluate your relationship and priorities in life. You can't live based on your fears forever.


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## Ecky (Dec 6, 2010)

Thanks for your bluntness @thismustbetheplace, I appreciate it. Ironically I did become a vegan for her, though after some time it became for me too. I felt no issues with adopting some of her practices so long as I could agree with them ideologically. I don't resist things on principle.


This isn't really counterpoint, but more relating some of my other traumas to help build up an idea of how pervasive this was in my younger life - I have lost people to drugs too, both in the metaphorical and literal sense.

The first was a friend who got into LSD and admittedly way overdid it - dropped out of highschool, overdosed many times, was eventually arrested and put in rehab. I lost contact with him about the time he was starting to get pretty deep into it, and met up with him 3 years later - he now has a permanent speech impediment and some learning disabilities he may or may not recover from. His experience has left him straightedge.

I knew my best friend for something like 14 years. We had a lot of firsts together, left Christianity together, were debated together in highschool, he was my wingman in my early college days. He was easily the most grounded and stable person I knew, didn't give any time of day to nonsense and was intensely rational. One summer a few years ago he tried mushrooms (several times in the summer) and I suppose must have had a particularly bad trip, but he developed an unshakable belief that there was a second, parallel, invisible world that we can't comprehend and somehow it was vastly important in a way he couldn't explain. He became a heavy pot smoker after this.

I have a second friend (acquaintance really) who came back from a bad mushroom trip with a belief in real superpowers and magic. 

Additionally, I had both a great aunt and a friend's father literally drink themselves to death. My mother is probably almost there - I expect she has at most a few years left if prison doesn't keep her dry.

A second uncle (not blood related) developed a cocaine habit after inheriting some money and nearly died - $25,000 of cocaine can do a lot of damage if done in a very short time. Now he is on permanent hormone therapy due to some kind of brain damage. 

My real life examples aren't very convincing about the safety of drugs, and peoples' abilities to use them in moderation.

My partner had expressed interest in harder drugs and hallucinogens, and admits that her personal safety is second priority to her personal experiences. I was incredibly surprised to learn this, and quite disturbed - having been together 3 years I never expected that she had interest. She told me that she feels shame about it, that somehow her desires are "wrong" (from more than just my judgement against it) but that she can't choose what she feels compelled to do. 

I also fear that limiting it to pot and alcohol are largely just her compromising to see where my boundaries lie even if it isn't conscious (she has spoken about being "compromising to the point where she will get almost nothing"), and I don't know if she'll later feel badly about my disapproving on more than just an irrational level that she use harder drugs even when/if I can overcome my issues. I probably will. We had been talking about where to go for gradschool, a house, and children shortly before this began, and I feel my future with her disappearing, even if I can get over my issues.

___

STILL, I'm in agreement that it's a fear I would benefit from if I got over, problem is I don't know how or where to start or if I can overcome this without (expensive?) professional help. It's so deeply entrenched that I suspect I might need some kind of medication to control my nerves to even talk about it, much less face it. It's not a matter of trust (though I specifically don't trust that she'll keep herself safe because she admits safety isn't as important to her as it is to me), it's a debilitating irrational fear that causes me to fall apart every time I tangle with the idea of someone in my life even using pot or alcohol. I really do need to get over it. 

On the flip side, she admits she would like to somehow overcome her issues too. It seems that she sometimes emotionally assigns authority to people and then struggles against it when no real authority is present - it can be as simple as a roommate telling her to clean up the mess she left in the kitchen. I don't even know what this is called or how someone would go about addressing it. She appreciates that I can live with it and I try to be very sensitive to her in all ways but this one. 

______

So, even if our relationship can't be fixed, I think we can both benefit from getting over our psychological disorders. Perhaps it still can, and we're definitely still trying. We still love and care about each other very much. For the moment things are stable because she has agreed, for my sake, that at least for now she's not going to touch anything until we have tried to resolve our issues and might be able to proceed without being self-destructive or destructive toward each other.


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## dragthewaters (Feb 9, 2013)

Ecky said:


> Thanks for your bluntness @_thismustbetheplace_, I appreciate it. Ironically I did become a vegan for her, though after some time it became for me too. I felt no issues with adopting some of her practices so long as I could agree with them ideologically. I don't resist things on principle.


Hmm, interesting. Did you become a vegan initially because you agreed with the vegan ethos or because she was upset that you weren't one? Or to put it a different way, would you still be a vegan if you guys broke up? And did you feel like it restricted your life? Did you guys argue about it or did she pressure you?

Also, what personality type is your girlfriend? She sounds a lot like a 6w7 to me from your description of her, but I might be wrong. 



Ecky said:


> My partner had expressed interest in harder drugs and hallucinogens, and admits that her personal safety is second priority to her personal experiences. I was incredibly surprised to learn this, and quite disturbed - having been together 3 years I never expected that she had interest. She told me that she feels shame about it, that somehow her desires are "wrong" (from more than just my judgement against it) but that she can't choose what she feels compelled to do.


Well, having an interest in harder drugs and actually taking those drugs are two different things. And I would guess that the majority of her interest comes from a "forbidden fruit" sort of thing. People always want what they can't have.

As for "personal safety being second priority to her personal experiences," considering she hasn't actually done anything risky yet (either involving drugs or other types of risk), I would guess that she is probably feeling stagnant in her life and looking for excitement, but the excitement is all in her imagination currently.

The thing is, the more you freak out about the idea of her drinking and doing drugs, the more she will resent you, because she will see you as the agent that is keeping her stagnant instead of allowing her to branch out and explore.



Ecky said:


> We had been talking about where to go for gradschool, a house, and children shortly before this began, and I feel my future with her disappearing, even if I can get over my issues.


Ok, first of all, grad students drink more than even college students, so if you really can't get over this fear, be prepared for years of social isolation. Secondly, if you really think that your future with her is over just because of this one thing, then you guys should probably break up anyway because you have trust issues.



Ecky said:


> On the flip side, she admits she would like to somehow overcome her issues too. She admits that she sometimes emotionally assigns authority to people and then struggles against it when no real authority is present
> 
> She also feels compelled toward certain self destructive behaviors and (though she hasn't acted on any of them) she resists anyone telling her that she shouldn't because of her authority issues.


In this case I would say the authority you have over her is real, but this once again goes back to my point about how the more you resist her, the more she will want to do drugs simply because you have forbidden them. She sounds like a classic counterphobic 6 to me.


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## William I am (May 20, 2011)

How is your relationship otherwise? Before you address "can we fix this?" you should address "should we fix this?".

Drug use is a very hard thing for people in a relationship to agree to disagree about. I actually had a very similar situation come up with a live-in abusive girlfriend when I was 20. Her parents were primarily emotionally but also somewhat physically abusive. We had both agreed to not drink or do any drugs at all until graduating college - that was my idea initially. My maternal grandmother was a neglectful alcoholic, my mom left home at 15 to raise herself and her brother, and her brother committed suicide at 25.

I am really glad I left her because she was horrible to me, but that was only part of why we split up. A major factor that made me rethink things was the addition of our new disagreement about drug use. 

Everybody has the right to live their life as they see fit, and that includes both you and her.

Maybe you got married too early and committed to things you weren't ready to commit to - as in before you got a chance to come to terms with your own hardships and deal with them and experiment with drugs in the mean time as you saw fit with no pressure from another person.


In all honesty, not knowing the relationship or either of you personally, it sounds like a marriage made too early and like you both have issues you need to work through. You're both going to need room and freedom to work through things (and her most likely to try at least some drugs) in order to move on and get to a stable and healthy relationship. IME people don't work through things when they can rely on another person to help them feel better.

The #1 reason for drug use is self-medication. Maybe she still hasn't addressed her issues. Most of the time that I smoked.... No, all of the time that I smoked, I was depressed, and it was largely due to an undiagnosed medical condition, which pot helped me ignore.

Since I think you both need room to deal with your shit, so to speak, you may need to stretch and bend the rules of marriage, maybe have time living apart, maybe separate for a (set?) amount of time, but an amount of time you both agree on.

A major part of this could be her not wanting to be told what to do - controlled - like you said. You may be able to come at it from a different perspective. This is not about you controlling her. This is about what you are and are not willing to put up with and have in your life. 


Just a note on drugs themselves:
Personally, I'm curious about acid and mushrooms and I've smoked pot (for 2 years, but only enjoyed the experience the first few times). About the only drug I feel I can personally handle is occasional "binge" drinking, like once every couple months. 

Acid and mushrooms (and other psychedellics) don't cause brain cell death (though they can have permanent effects). If she wants to do psychedellics, have her get a "trip sitter" - a person she finds calming and soothing to talk and walk her through any problems she has while she's high. The brain cell killers are cocaine, meth, molly/ecstasy/E (most people don't realize that it's modified methamphetamine), and heroin.

For firsthand accounts of drug use, effects, good and bad trips, visit Erowid.

Now I'm not saying that she's out to become a hardcore dope fiend, but there are a lot of functional hard drug users (just like functional alcoholics) who somehow manage both their addictions and jobs at least sometimes. People you wouldn't expect to do definitely use hard drugs. I had a roommate who went straightlaced to be with a girl after being a party animal (x, coke, booze, etc) and then I found out after living with him for 6 months that he'd been doing speedballs (injecting heroin and cocaine) a couple times a month. I really couldn't tell. I just assumed he was doing homework in his room.

One last thing - stoners and a load of other people say you can't get addicted to pot. Bullshit. Pot doesn't physically make you ill when you stop like heroin, tobacco, and alcohol can, but it is still pleeenty addictive. I smoked for 2 years but only enjoyed it the first 2 times. I was chasgin that initial high and the peak experience I had the second time for a while. Then I just did it out of habit and boredom. Then I did it to self-medicate - which kept me from resolving the underlying issues.

When I finally decided to quit, it was thanksgiving weekend and I had just driven home 9 hours. I wanted to relax and I wound up smoking to do that. (half a puff = relaxed, whole puff = couchlocked for me). I wound up talking to my long distance (now ex) girlfriend and she asked me why I had gotten high..... and that was when it hit me that I really hadn't been enjoying it. I said "I think I might have a problem with pot", and I quit then. I smoked again 3 times, once at a concert, once in the spring (I think?) and once over the summer. They were all bad. The concert was my 2nd time seeing my favorite band and it kind of ruined it. I was disoriented and don't remember most of it. Another time, I just spent the whole time eating and feeling bad about myself. (Pot makes me self-critical).
The effects of any drug aren't consistent between people (nor apparently across personality/enneagram types according to some polls/threads here). Food for thought.

Best of luck.How is your relationship otherwise?

Drug use is a very hard thing for people in a relationship to agree to disagree about. I actually had a very similar situation come up with a live-in abusive girlfriend when I was 20. Her parents were primarily emotionally but also somewhat physically abusive. We had both agreed to not drink or do any drugs at all until graduating college - that was my idea initially. My maternal grandmother was a neglectful alcoholic, my mom left home at 15 to raise herself and her brother, and her brother committed suicide at 25.

I am really glad I left her because she was horrible to me, but that was only part of why we split up. A major factor that made me rethink things was the addition of our new disagreement about drug use. 

Everybody has the right to live their life as they see fit, and that includes both you and her.

Maybe you got married too early and committed to things you weren't ready to commit to - as in before you got a chance to come to terms with your own hardships and deal with them and experiment with drugs in the mean time as you saw fit with no pressure from another person.


In all honesty, not knowing the relationship or either of you personally, it sounds like a marriage made too early and like you both have issues you need to work through. You're both going to need room and freedom to work through things (and her most likely to try at least some drugs) in order to move on and get to a stable and healthy relationship. IME people don't work through things when they can rely on another person to help them feel better.

The #1 reason for drug use is self-medication. Maybe she still hasn't addressed her issues. 

Since I think you both need room to deal with your shit, so to speak, you may need to stretch and bend the rules of marriage, maybe have time living apart, maybe separate for a (set?) amount of time, but an amount of time you both agree on.

A major part of this could be her not wanting to be told what to do - controlled - like you said. You may be able to come at it from a different perspective. This is not about you controlling her. This is about what you are and are not willing to put up with and have in your life. 


Just a note on drugs themselves:
Personally, I'm curious about acid and mushrooms and I've smoked pot (for 2 years, but only enjoyed the experience the first few times). About the only drug I feel I can personally handle is occasional "binge" drinking, like once every couple months. 

Acid and mushrooms (and other psychedellics) don't cause brain cell death (though they can have permanent effects). If she wants to do psychedellics, have her get a "trip sitter" - a person she finds calming and soothing to talk and walk her through any problems she has while she's high. The brain cell killers are cocaine, meth, molly/ecstasy/E (most people don't realize that it's modified methamphetamine), and heroin.

For firsthand accounts of drug use, effects, good and bad trips, visit Erowid.

Now I'm not saying that she's out to become a hardcore dope fiend, but there are a lot of functional hard drug users (just like functional alcoholics) who somehow manage both their addictions and jobs at least sometimes. People you wouldn't expect to do definitely use hard drugs. I had a roommate who went straightlaced to be with a girl after being a party animal (x, coke, booze, etc) and then I found out after living with him for 6 months that he'd been doing speedballs (injecting heroin and cocaine) a couple times a month. I really couldn't tell. I just assumed he was doing homework in his room.

One last thing - stoners and a load of other people say you can't get addicted to pot. Bullshit. Pot doesn't physically make you ill when you stop like heroin, tobacco, and alcohol can, but it is still pleeenty addictive. I smoked for 2 years but only enjoyed it the first 2 times. I was chasgin that initial high and the peak experience I had the second time for a while. Then I just did it out of habit and boredom. Then I did it to self-medicate - which kept me from resolving the underlying issues.

When I finally decided to quit, it was thanksgiving weekend and I had just driven home 9 hours. I wanted to relax and I wound up smoking to do that. (half a puff = relaxed, whole puff = couchlocked for me). I wound up talking to my long distance (now ex) girlfriend and she asked me why I had gotten high..... and that was when it hit me that I really hadn't been enjoying it. I said "I think I might have a problem with pot", and I quit then. I smoked again 3 times, once at a concert, once in the spring (I think?) and once over the summer. They were all bad. The concert was my 2nd time seeing my favorite band and it kind of ruined it. I was disoriented and don't remember most of it. Another time, I just spent the whole time eating and feeling bad about myself. (Pot makes me self-critical).
The effects of any drug aren't consistent between people (nor apparently across personality/enneagram types according to some polls/threads here). Food for thought.


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## Sovereign (Aug 19, 2011)

I'm just going to throw in a few observations. First, I think you are approaching this in the correct way, for the most part. The fact that you understand and accept that you and your irrational phobia are part of the problem means that you can effectively generate solutions. Trying to solve a different problem than the one which actually exists doesn't tend to end well. 



Ecky said:


> I can't rationalize why, for her personal safety, she shouldn't be able to at least try pot and alcohol in moderation. All I have is my irrational fears/phobia about drugs - and she feels like she can use them to where it won't personally affect me (out of sight, out of mind).


With pot and alcohol, I think it's mainly the irrational fear. As you said, some drugs really do cause substantial negative effects in large portions of users. Marijuana, Alcohol, Caffeine, Nicotine, and other commonly-used drugs are not as extreme as many others in this regard. 



> Since then we have had some problems where she feels like I am trying to control what she does (perhaps she sees some of her father's controlling nature in me? though it feels like self-defense), and I am terrified of letting drugs and alcohol back into my life at all, to the point where I have "flight" responses when I think about it too long. So far we've been unable to find any middle-ground.


I understand that you are afraid, but you are by definition being controlling. Which is not a good thing to be being, what with the family history and all. Ultimately, it's better to leave the relationship than spend any time controlling your partner's behavior. She will resent it in the long run, and it will undermine any progress you make. 

[opinion- total subjectivity here]Tough love: If everything is exactly as you describe here, you are more of the problem than her. In my book, an irrational phobia that serves to constrain another person's behavior is much worse than an irrational need for independence (or an irrational desire to consume drugs) that makes another person uncomfortable. Now that I think about it, that's pretty Fi of me, which could be part of the issue. 

I think this stems from the firm conviction of mine that people own their outcomes. It is not your place to protect someone from themselves, or even save them from themselves, using control mechanisms. Persuasion and reasoning are tools better suited to the task. Ultimately, if someone (even a loved one) insists on destroying themselves, that is their decision, and they should be allowed to do so (and then eat the consequences) if reasoning and persuasion fails. Not saying that will happen (probably won't), but even if it 100% for sure would, you're still out of line, IMO. Your one responsibility is to look out for your interests: if the situation becomes one that you do not approve of, leave it.[/opinion] 



> I don't know if either of us can be talked through our fears/issues, but I'm unable to budge without serious emotional trauma (I've been trying!) and she hasn't been able to come to terms with the fact that this "choice" is seemingly out of her hands.


The choice to take an action is never out of her hands. She can take whatever action she chooses at any time. If you don't like it, she always has the choice to disregard your opinion entirely. She is not entitled to your presence in the relationship, though, so the choice of maintaining the relationship after said actions is indeed essentially out of her hands. [/QUOTE]



> My partner had expressed interest in harder drugs and hallucinogens, and admits that her personal safety is second priority to her personal experiences.




I'm assuming that you value safety more highly. This is a very deep area of incompatibility that can take serious compromises to resolve. If your phobia ultimately disallows you from compromising, that might be a deal breaker. If you can get this issue out of the way, though, others might be easier because they will not likely run afoul of your phobia. If this issue crops up again in another area (not afflicted by the phobia), you might need to look at the possibility of you being a bit on the controlling side in general, IMO. 

I'm obviously not saying she doesn't have problems also. Someone who wants to fit in and have a little buzz occasionally is one thing, but someone who wants to run to drugs and alcohol from depression, the past, or their problems is undoubtedly unhealthy. Perhaps the situation here is a little of both, indicating that some counseling/therapy might be very good for her. 

If I were you, I'd keep trying to get over the phobia by any means necessary. According to me, it is entirely irrational, and cannot be justified because you want to avoid particular consequences you have observed before. No two situations play out the same way. Many people use all kinds of substances every day with few to no negative consequences. Even though this situation is more specific (bad family history, etc), there is still a distinct possibility that your partner will fall into that category. Key point: The only reason there's a problem right now is because you have a problem. Later, there might be problems because of consequences, but those are not a sure thing. Preventing problems is good, but preventing problems always causes more problems. I think Calvin Coolidge (my favorite President) had it right about problem prevention:

"If you see ten troubles coming down the road, you can be sure that nine will run into the ditch before they reach you."


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## FlightsOfFancy (Dec 30, 2012)

How does one become an LSD addict, really? The tolerance that builds up to those almost prevents consistent usage. Same with MDMA...hmmmm?


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## Ecky (Dec 6, 2010)

Thank you @William I am and @Sovereign, you both are providing reinforcement that I probably need in ways that I feel are largely helpful and convincing.

____

I believe her personality type to be INFP (as I observe the functions) though she has tested as both a "P" and a "J" at different times. Her enneagram type was tested to be 4w5, but I don't know enough about that system to have an opinion on it. 

____
@thismustbetheplace, I worded my statement (about becoming a vegan) trying to not imply anything that wasn't strictly true, but thought it was an interesting aside, and I'm glad I did because you brought up a good point. I did not become a vegan because she was upset that I wasn't one, and that is definitely important. Had I agreed with the ethos it wouldn't have been a problem for me to at least try it out, and had I not initially, I would have at least tested and seen if it's a compromise I would be willing to make, that was worth the relationship, and perhaps in time evened adopt it myself for my own reasons if I liked what it was that I experienced. 

I understand your well-made point though and agree. She has adopted the system I have _required_ and found it lacking, and feels trapped between my rigidity and her discontent. I can agree that I am the larger problem here, and any future problems that she may run into following the paths she chooses are problems for the future that can be avoided in other ways, some of which might not sound good to either of us now but may ultimately be better.

____


I have been extremely content with our relationship otherwise, and she has expressed similar feelings. We're comfortable being around each other for far longer than either of us has experienced with anyone else. We're compatible on a lot of levels, and largely are able to work through things even where we're not. Without going into a lot of detail, accept that I have both a vested and rational interest in being able to work through this. 



Sovereign said:


> I'm assuming that you value safety more highly. This is a very deep area of incompatibility that can take serious compromises to resolve. If your phobia ultimately disallows you from compromising, that might be a deal breaker. If you can get this issue out of the way, though, others might be easier because they will not likely run afoul of your phobia. If this issue crops up again in another area (not afflicted by the phobia), you might need to look at the possibility of you being a bit on the controlling side in general, IMO.



Right now she is compromising very seriously for me, and it's not quite a deal-breaker, but it worries me and makes her pretty unhappy when she thinks about it. I suspect that there is a piece of advice in there but I'm not quite sure what it is. By "getting this issue out of the way", what do you mean? 



Sovereign said:


> The choice to take an action is never out of her hands. She can take whatever action she chooses at any time. If you don't like it, she always has the choice to disregard your opinion entirely. She is not entitled to your presence in the relationship, though, so the choice of maintaining the relationship after said actions is indeed essentially out of her hands.


This is one thing that I am not sure she is able to emotionally accept. Bringing that up has tended to be a conversation-ender as it seems to touch on some deep wounds. 

____

As for the marriage being made too early, that's probably also true, but I have no regrets about it. One of the driving forces for us to do it was financial - her mother is a dentist who is still in huge amounts of debt from school and is unable to contribute to a college education, but my partner also would not have received any financial aid had she not been legally bound to my poor ass. I would do it again in a moment. My personal struggle is between the amount of emotional attachment I have to her and my phobia(s).


EDIT: Any other suggestions for us on how to handle our particular problems? One mentioned several times for me is exposure therapy (or continued avoidance), and for her just "maybe see a therapist"?


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## Spades (Aug 31, 2011)

FlightsOfFancy said:


> How does one become an LSD addict, really? The tolerance that builds up to those almost prevents consistent usage. Same with MDMA...hmmmm?


Not so much with MDMA. Being an amphetamine, it does activate the reward pathway, causing people to crave it even if tolerance goes way up. But yeah. Taking LSD multiple days in a row might just turn a person off it forever XP


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## William I am (May 20, 2011)

I'm glad my post was helpful, and I hope it wasn't too blunt or presumptive. My point about an early marriage is that the experimentation phase happens with an established relationship as opposed to be unmarried (how old are the two of you, by the way?). 

Hmm. Ideas for her? See a therapist (everyone would benefit from this, IMO). Deal with her depression - it's a significant problem, and it can be caused by physical problems too. The most effective depression therapy is medication with simultaneous weekly therapy sessions. 

Also, if she feels like she needs to give in to peer pressure, that sounds kind of un-INFP to me (I've dated a few medium and long term), so maybe it's something she can overcome by improving her self-esteem somehow. 

I had fairly bad anxiety about a few things, and Cognitive-behavioural therapy helped me find a few methods to help break up cycles of anxious thoughts and face down my fears by challenging my beliefs (beliefs that I thought were based on good sound logic). I'm a lot happier and more accepting of myself. Part of what helped me too was PerC and understanding myself - especially some of my "bad" habits that are normal traits for an ENTP. I also got treated for low testosterone (secondary idiopathic hypogonadism if you're curious), and that has made all the difference in the world. I feel more fit and functional than I have in 10 years. Best of luck, whatever you do!

PS Holy crap, I didn't realize I wrote 4 pages on that....


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## Ecky (Dec 6, 2010)

Hah. Actually, you may not have noticed but you have some duplicate text in your previous post.

She is 21 and I'm 24, so yes we're both still quite young. 

Addressing this is putting my moods all over the place and I feel like I'm having to really watch what I'm thinking which is very unusual - normally my emotions are extremely stable and I can trust decisions I make at any time. I am not generally prone to anxiety or depression, but this is really tearing me up. I suspect I'm experiencing some situational depression (and cyclic moods), and I have almost no experience dealing with it. The hardships I had when I was younger were all pretty straightforward in that I had to cope, to survive, while now the answers are not clear.


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## PowerShell (Feb 3, 2013)

Everything in moderation. Typically flat out saying no builds temptation and she'll do it behind your back and it'll lead to trust issues. As long as it's done in moderation, that's fine. The majority of people can drink without becoming raging alcoholics. If a problem develops, detect it early and deal with it before it snowballs out of control. Most likely a problem won't develop, though.


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## Ecky (Dec 6, 2010)

I appreciate the feedback, all! We seem to have made some progress. 

For me, I think I have come to accept at a deep emotional level that she's entitled to make her own decisions about this, despite what I may want. She is however not entitled to my approval or even my presence if I don't like her decisions, and I am not required to accept anything she does. I seem to have gotten over my hangup about that (mostly). I felt a little bit of peace for the first time in a while, though not really a happy one.

Today one of her close friends expressed strong disapproval about drugs, and she admitted to me afterward that she had had a realization of her own -that it had largely been peer pressure she hadn't recognized. To some degree she had been "trying to manipulate herself" (her words) into believing that peer pressure from her friends was had been her own feelings, through some odd twist of her desire to make independent decisions and not be influenced or controlled by someone else. By being confronted by another friend who was anti-drug, she had for a moment believed she didn't want to do drugs either, and then realized the source of her desires. Additionally, "I nearly fucked up everything pretty much for peer pressure" and some more stuff about being glad that I had stood up to her about this as otherwise she wouldn't have recognized it for what it is. That's not to say that she won't ever touch these substances, but she feels she had been looking at things in a very unhealthy way.

She has never been one to groom my ego, so I think she's as genuinely glad as I am. What comes next, I think, is that I'm going to continue to talk to my counselor about overcoming my irrational fears about drugs and alcohol, and be wary of any controlling behaviors. She is now working to figuring out just how much of what she believes is from wanting to be accepted by her friends.


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