# INTJ or ISTJ ?



## tery999 (Jul 21, 2013)

Hi all, this is my first day as a member in this forum ^^
I have a question which might sound silly... Am I an INTJ or ISTJ ?
I took 3 tests. In 2 of them I was an INTJ . The 3rd one was very confusing for me ( My native language isn't english, but I consider myself to be good in it ) because I didn't understand around 1/5 of the questions. The result I got from this test was that I am an ISTJ with a weak "S" . How can I be sure which personality type do I Belong to?


----------



## Cyeran (Jul 20, 2013)

you are what you choose to be


----------



## Trinidad (Apr 16, 2010)

The difference is that INTJ's have Ni as their primary function, ISTJ's have Si. See which one of the descriptions below sounds most like you.

Ni (Introverted intuition):


*Perspective Shifting*: Using Ni a person can shift their perspectives, view and understand things from different angles and in different ways, each giving insights, synthesizing information and trying to get to the best outcome for the problem at hand and accomplish a vision of the future. Perspectives are often evoked by focusing on physical symbols, archetypes, totems, and other abstractions like visual models. This ability allows the Ni user to see the underlying meaning and universal truths of natural law behind symbols and abstractions, and then apply them in other places that appear unrelated or contradictory.

*Meaningful Insight*: Ni involves synthesizing the seemingly paradoxical or contradictory, which takes understanding to a new level. Using this process, one can have moments when completely new, unimagined realizations come to them. Quite often during times of relaxation after concentrated intellectual activity, when the mind is allowed to wander freely, the Ni seems to take over and can produce the sudden clarifying insights. Ni is a way of seeing things that rise above competing views. Engaging this process starts with entering a state of withdrawal from the world in order to purposefully gain an insight or realization. These insights may manifest as "aha!" experiences, the kind of thing that "pops" into your head while you're taking a shower. Once these insights come to pass they can align them with their global model transforming it into an updated perspective of the world and future.

*Prediction*: Ni is always looking for implications of how the future will unfold. Ni types often find themselves laying out how the future will unfold based on unseen trends and telling signs. Because of this curious power that Ni users have, they tend to be seen as having a “psychic” or prophetic quality to them.

*Visionary Drive*: The sense of the future and the realizations that come from Ni have sureness and an imperative quality that seem to demand action and help us stay focused on fulfilling our vision or dream of how things will be in the future. The Ni user can hold the ideal future society or system within their Ni, and rigorously drive toward this goal to turn it into reality.

*Independence of Mind*: Ni dominants confidently trust their intuitions, insights, ideas, and inspirations - often no matter what others say. Their thoughts become part of who they are, and they are completely independent of the world the live in. Ni dominants are the most independent minded of all other types, the insights they pick up on in their lives are completely original and subjective. For this reason, many Ni dominants feel like aliens, as if they perceive a completely different reality from everyone else.

*Suppression*: Ni and Se have a suppressive relationship. Ni causes the person to withdraw from the active sensual environment in order to work effectively. The slightest nudge, impulse noise, or visual flash can knock a person completely out of Ni and derail their train of thought. Because of this, Ni dominants can’t stand being interrupted, and prefer to surround themselves with only the most pleasant of sensations.


Si (Introverted Sensing):


*Reliability*: Si types are dependable, reliable and trustworthy. They like to belong to solid organizations that have reasonable in their ambitions and loyal to their employees. They are thorough and conscientious in fulfilling their responsibilities.

*Practicality*: Once an Si type accepts a project, they will see it to the end. They manage their time well and are realistic about how much time and resources will be needed. They derive great pleasure from perfecting existing techniques with the goal of maximizing efficiency and cost-effectiveness.

*Memory*: Si is reviewing past experiences and recalling stored impressions. Si often involves storing data and information, then comparing and contrasting the current situation with similar ones. The immediate experience or words are instantly linked with the prior experiences, and we register a similarity or a difference. Si is operating when we see someone who reminds of someone else. Sometimes the feeling associated with the recalled image comes into our awareness along with the information itself. The process involves reviewing the past to draw on the lessons of history, hindsight, and experience. Si types tend to have a good memory for specific facts that are necessary in their day-to-day life at work and at home. When one uses Si, we don’t adjust to our surface impressions; we package them and take them with us—in the form of facts, numbers, signs and memories. We don’t remember, or even notice, everything that we see, hear, taste, touch and smell during the course of our lives. Only some things strike us as important, useful, familiar, or exciting enough to convert into mental content—that is, into facts that we retain over time. Si guides in this selection, and it prompts us to reconcile our new impressions with the ones we’ve already stored.

*Attention to Detail*: Si types are careful and orderly in their attention to facts and details, Si is accumulating data and seeking details information and links to what is known. With Si, there is often a great attention to detail and getting a clear picture of goals and objectives and what is to happen. Si is recognizing the way things have always been.

*Stability*: With Si there can be a oneness with ageless customs that help sustain civilization and culture, and protect what is known and long-lasting. The Si type tends to be rather modest, traditional and conventional, to like sensible clothing, to be thrifty, careful and wise with both money and possessions. They may keep possessions for a lifetime and treasure those that were given to them. Si types have a developed sense of citizenship and accountability. From an Si viewpoint, immediate conditions have no stable meaning. They’re just an influx of data impinging on the senses, and the response to these impressions depends on mood, state of mind, desires and feelings. It’s our commitments and priorities, the facts we hold inalienable that give our circumstances enduring significance. Knowing what matters, what’s worth keeping or building again, gives a sense of continuity and security. It gives direction in the midst of a crisis, or helps to weather a loss of faith that immediate feelings would not equip us to handle. All things flow away like water, but the ground of our self-experience remains. Si types are typically seen as well grounded in reality, trustworthy, and dedicated to preserving traditional values and time-honored institutions.

*Suppression*: Si and Ne have a suppressive relationship. The chaos on unpredictability of Ne renders the reliance of the past data obsolete in that it cannot be reliably trusted if the environment is constantly changing.

Source.


----------



## tery999 (Jul 21, 2013)

*INTJ
Perspective Shifting - Yes
Meaningful Insight - Yes
Prediction - Yes
Visionary Drive - mostly Yes
Independence of Mind - Yes
Suppression - In most situations - Yes
---
ISTJ
Reliability - In my opinion - Yes
Practicality - heavily depends on the situation, mostly - No
Memory - Im not Sure. I'd say the majority of the said doesnt apply to me, but there are some things that do.
Attention to Detail - Im not sure :blushed:

Stability - Kinda , I think mostly Yes
Suppression: Not Sure.

---
Is it possible to have Both "traits" from ISTJ and INTJ ? 
Anyway thanks for the help Trinidad :kitteh:
Based on this I think I'm an INTJ .




*


----------



## Nyu (Jun 29, 2013)

I think the attention to detail part kind of goes for intuitive types as well. 

Intuitive types see the big picture but we like to break it down into smaller details as soon as we grasp the big picture. 

I think sensing types work the opposite, they work out all the details and then they form those into a larger picture.. If they have the patience or desire to make a big picture..

i also have a pretty weak N but I don't relate to ISTJ at all so it was pretty easy for me to decide.


----------



## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

The content shared by @Trinidad is not especially accurate.

In short (because I am very uninterested atm).
Intuition is the glue of the world, it connects experiences and stuff into a web of understanding. Intuition is what tells you that there's a connection between things in the world.
Ni does those connections mainly internally and largely independently from external forces.
Ne does those connections mainly externally and largely depending on external forces.
This does not mean that Ne users can't connect things on their own, it is simply their prefered environment to be able to discuss the creation of ideas. This should not be mixed with Te which discusses finalized ideas to test them out. An INTJ for example will create an idea in their head and then discuss the product whereas an INTP for example will discuss the unfinished idea and out of that create their own product (as INTPs are Ne users, they will take in information while the idea is building, but due to their Ti, they don't wish for people to correct them once they have a finalized idea as their Ti is introverted and does not wish to be swayed by external sources).
It's a quite complex line, but you'll get the hang of it.
Now, ISTJs are Ne users like INTPs, but Te users like INTJs.
ISTJs also got inferior Ne which means that when stressed they can start to catastrophize and their Ne will start to create a spiral of negative possibilities.

Now sensing, unlike intuition then it is not a glue of the world, however, it is what the intuition glues. Sensing is quite straight forward with its name.
Si is an introverted function and also a deeply personal function. It is not about memory per se, it is about connection to the sensory information on an emotional level. Si doms especially got a very strong connection to the sensing information and how it makes them feel. This is why Si users are known for going back to old places or desperately avoiding an old place. Unlike Se which just takes in sensory information and then drops it, Si holds on to the sensory information and how it made them feel.

It is also important to know that even tho the types are solid, your preference is just a preference and thus you can use functions outside your preference (that will not make you prefer the new function(s) however).


----------



## tery999 (Jul 21, 2013)

Thanks Acer


----------



## birdsintrees (Aug 20, 2012)

Based on my own experience of Ni and Si dominants:

Si and Ni both gather data. Si is more sequential than Ni > 1,2,3,4,5 etc. Ni is more prone to take leaps forward based on one fact by connecting it to different frameworks inside the mind. Si enjoys (as far as I've observed) the fact itself and gathers it one at time, evaluates it and places it in the Dataset Of Everything. There seems a much larger focus on the fact itself without necessarily placing it in a larger framework of different, related (in the Ni brain), topics. Ni imagines/predicts based on certain pointers that indicate a similar framework of what's been concluded in the past. Si predicts based on past, factual experience. For this reason the ISTJ might come across much more grounded than the INTJ. You could maybe say that Ni looks like assumption on the outside where the Si user just about always has a very exact, visible path towards their decisions.

Somewhere hidden in the INTJ article section or in the Cognitive Functions section there is an article on the differences between Si and Ni which pictures it really clear.. If I come across it I'll edit and post a link to it.


----------



## B00Bz (Jul 11, 2013)

I have the same problem, except I'm between ENTP and ESTP. I've been told that is not a fence one can sit on, but I suspect that people who say that confine themselves to the description of the MBTI classifications. I think there can be an overlap. I think it also depends on your situation and your mood, in the meantime I'd take solice in the fact that you can adapt and are not limited to one way of interpreting and dealing with the world around you.


----------



## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

B00Bz said:


> I have the same problem, except I'm between ENTP and ESTP. I've been told that is not a fence one can sit on, but I suspect that people who say that confine themselves to the description of the MBTI classifications. I think there can be an overlap. I think it also depends on your situation and your mood, in the meantime I'd take solice in the fact that you can adapt and are not limited to one way of interpreting and dealing with the world around you.


That is due to faulty or rather, lacking knowledge of MBTI.
First of all, MBTI is not about 16 types of boxes, but rather 16 types of preferences. Just like you can be right-handed or left-handed and just like that, you can use functions outside your preference, it will however be more draining and will not work as well as your natural preference.

Secondly, function dynamics is why you can't "sit on the fence". There's an explanation why you can't be an EXTP.
Firstly because Se and Ne are both extroverted and perceiving functions, which means they will constantly fight for dominance over each other.
On the opposite side there's Ni and Si, both are introverted and perceiving functions, which means they will also constantly fight for dominance over each other.
Now, Ni and Ne are basically the same thing, just that Ni is directed towards the internal whereas Ne is directed towards the external. This means that they can't coexist. Same goes for Se and Si.
Due to the constant fighting for dominance over each other, the path of least resistance will be sooner or later created. This would be an Se + Ni combination or Ne + Si combination because even tho they are both perceiving functions, they are as far from each other as you can come. Then you have created a preference for a certain function pair.
Same goes for the judging functions and after a while you have a Ti + Fe preference.

Your mind has now developed a preference. You are not restrained to your preference, but you can't change it either.


----------



## tery999 (Jul 21, 2013)

Okay guys, thank all of you.
But now there is another problem xD
The test which in I didn't understand many of the question showed that im ISTJ. So I Guess its because of my lack of understanding that I got ISTJ so it doesnt count. 
And now guess what xD
On another test I got that im INTP.
Can you tell me the difference between INTP and INTJ ? :laughing:
So far on those tests I've got:
1 ISTJ
3 INTJ
1 INTP


----------



## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

tery999 said:


> Okay guys, thank all of you.
> But now there is another problem xD
> The test which in I didn't understand many of the question showed that im ISTJ. So I Guess its because of my lack of understanding that I got ISTJ so it doesnt count.
> And now guess what xD
> ...


INTJ - Ni Te Fi Se
INTP - Ti Ne Si Fe
:tongue:
They are opposites in thought processes.
Whereas INTJ make connections and form ideas internally in their head, INTPs go outside to get ideas and manufacture new ones.
Whereas INTJs follow an objective logical framework, INTPs use a subjective one that works for them. Te tends to trust the reasoning of others, Ti does not and needs to do something on their own (unless the INTP really respects the person).
I am kinda tired atm. but @arkigos loves to explain the difference between the 2 types.


----------



## birdsintrees (Aug 20, 2012)

one way to differentiate between INTJ and INTP is that intjs are much more solution focused and intps are much more focused on gathering the entire truth. intj will ask what works. intp will ask what is true. intp will consider all logical possibilities before drawing a conclusion, intj will take a more pragmatic approach.
have a read about Ti and Te, they are relatively easy to tell apart.

when you are stuck deciding on your type it might be worth leaving it undecided for a while. don't rely so much on tests because this ultimately comes down to knowing yourself and understanding your preferred processes. some people take years to figure out who they are.


----------



## pushit (Dec 20, 2012)

Acerbusvenator said:


> ISTJs also got inferior Ne which means that when stressed they can start to catastrophize and their Ne will start to create a spiral of negative possibilities.


What would be the difference between that and an xNxP who is doing the same thing due to severe stress/mental health problems? (if there is a difference?)


----------



## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

sinsandsecrets said:


> What would be the difference between that and an xNxP who is doing the same thing due to severe stress/mental health problems? (if there is a difference?)


That's not really how an XNXP reacts so there would be no differentiation to be made.


----------



## pushit (Dec 20, 2012)

Acerbusvenator said:


> That's not really how an XNXP reacts so there would be no differentiation to be made.


So in your opinion how would one react under those conditions and how would the functions play a role in that? I asked because I'm one and I tend to play self sabotage, become pessimistic, think about negative scenarios under stress, depression, etc. And yet I don't think I'm an ISTJ. 

(I realized I'm derailing the thread, so if you want, PM me.)


----------



## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

sinsandsecrets said:


> So in your opinion how would one react under those conditions and how would the functions play a role in that? I asked because I'm one and I tend to play self sabotage, become pessimistic, think about negative scenarios under stress, depression, etc. And yet I don't think I'm an ISTJ.
> 
> (I realized I'm derailing the thread, so if you want, PM me.)


Meh, I can write it here.
IFPs got inferior Te, so they tend to express Te in a more negative and twisted manner when under stress.



> Jack, an INFP, related the following story:As part of a professional training program I was enrolled in, I had to complete a take-home exam that required me to integrate the complex information in the course. I had never written a take-home exam before, and I looked forward to it, as the questions were challenging and I enjoy writing. But I had great trouble answering the questions. I thought everything I wrote was either wrong, trivial, or irrelevant. I was in the depths of despair, seriously questioning my competence and professional skills. I kept thinking it would get better if I kept at it, but over the six weeks I worked on the exam, it only got worse. Several days before I was to turn in my examination, I realized that I had unwittingly defined the take-home exam as a requirement to cite chapter and verse, and to provide carefully substantiated facts leading to logical conclusions.This was not my comfortable approach to problem solving. I depended largely on my ideas and insight to guide my work. I realized that in writing the exam, I had been treating my ideas as if they had to be facts, and I was expecting my conclusions to have the status of truth. No wonder I couldn’t tell if my ideas were any good: I was evaluating them from an inappropriate perspective. I was able to easily redefine the task, set aside the books I was consulting, and answer the questions with confidence and satisfaction. I got an A+ on the exam.





> Ben, an ISFP, had majored in physical education in college and planned to teach at the high school level. But because he was unable to find a position in his field, he took a job in the drafting department of a large manufacturing firm. His minor in college had been art, and he had always enjoyed the creative outlet his artwork provided him. He liked designing teaching materials for the company’s training department and was particularly good at improving on other people’s designs, putting to good use his fine sense of color, shape, and texture. As a result of his excellent work, Ben was promoted to a project manager position. His job now required him to read and evaluate reports and decide what kinds of training materials were appropriate.After two weeks in this new position, Ben developed stomach problems, back pain, and headaches. He was unable to concentrate at work and responded to requests by saying,“I can’t do that,” or “I don’t know how.” “I feel really stupid, incompetent, and worthless,” he told a career counselor.“My boss agrees. He says I am totally uncreative because I can’t come up with original training designs. He’s right. Before, I was good at improving on other people’s designs—not coming up with my own.Now I don’t think I can even do that. I don’t think I was ever really good at that anyway.The rest of the team made up for my lack of talent.” Promoted to a position beyond his level of expertise, Ben lost contact with his real sources of competence, which, abetted by his boss, he now devalued.When he eventually moved into a position that again made use of his particular talents, his sense of self gradually returned.“I realize now that I don’t have to accept other people’s idea of creativity. I can be happy with my own definition,” he said.





> I was invited to deliver a lecture on my area of specialization in philosophy at an annual philosophical society meeting.Although I was somewhat anxious, as this would be my first major presentation, I was excited about it and quite pleased with my professors’ high opinion of me. I was told that several philosophers who were experts in my area might be attending my presentation.The lecture was attended by over 100 people. I introduced my talk with a brief overview of the philosophical
> system underlying my approach. I had been speaking for about ten minutes when a man at the back of the room began shaking his head vigorously. In that instant I knew that he was one of the “experts”—that I must have made some egregious error, was making a fool of myself, and was in danger of continuing to do so. All my thoughts flew from my head! My choice was either to persevere and forge ahead with a high risk of making further stupid statements or to mortify myself by being unable to continue. Under the circumstances, the first option was the lesser evil. I recovered and continued, though with quite a bit of uneasiness. At the end of my lecture, the man who had been shaking his head came up to me and said, “I’m sorry to ask you to repeat something
> you said during your lecture, but I have a terrible ear infection and I couldn’t clear my ears enough to be able to hear you.” I realized that his head shaking was an attempt to unclog his ears not a negative comment on what I was saying. However,my readiness to distrust my knowledge was clearly a sign that I was insecure and thus basically incompetent. I interpreted my quickness to “lose it” as a way of unconsciously chastising myself for my arrogance in thinking too well of myself. Years later, I recognized that my expectations of myself had been unrealistic. I had wanted to explain my philosophical approach perfectly
> and was afraid of making any kind of error.Thinking about this made me reflect on the realistic consequences of making a mistake in public.Would one error really be so terrible? Wasn’t an important aspect of competence the ability to accept one’s errors and learn from them? As a result of this experience, I am better able to accept my mistakes as natural consequences of being human.They do not interrupt my train of thought, nor do I overreact to them as I once did.


----------



## INTJguy (Jul 19, 2011)

I think the difference is in whether you just live in the present or in the future and past as well.


----------



## tery999 (Jul 21, 2013)

Thanks guys :3
I have another question - Is it possible for a person to change its type over time? 
Is it possible to be different type, depending on the situation, and does that make you schizophrenic? xD


----------



## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

tery999 said:


> Thanks guys :3
> I have another question - Is it possible for a person to change its type over time?
> Is it possible to be different type, depending on the situation, and does that make you schizophrenic? xD


You don't change type, but you develop as a person and get more comfortable and used to using your preferred functions.


----------

