# Types that just get it wrong...



## Jorji (Oct 24, 2009)

I'm guessing that it's those who have inferior Ne or Ni who seem to always be drawing wrong conclusions. From a small amount of information, they concoct an amazingly wrong scenario.

Example: Gertrude walks in on my conversation with the cell phone company as I'm trying to upgrade one of the phones. I get off the phone, and she says, "Are you not able to pay your bill?"

Really? What, in that conversation, gave you the idea that I couldn't pay my bill?

She heard me asking if they could waive the upgrade fee and the "number change" fee. It's not that I can't pay those fees, but hell, if I can get them waived...why not?


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## Kitfool (Oct 24, 2012)

My ESTP stepdad does that. I personally tend to keep my conclusions to myself unless I have ample evidence. Perhaps because I have learned to really keep the Ni down. XD


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## Herp (Nov 25, 2010)

And inferior Se or Si types can't see what's exactly in front of them, preferring to make concoctions to justify impratical behaviors. 

I could start a thread named "Types that can't see the obvious" and highlight these types clear weaknesses. I get the point that these dominant sensing types are prone to have a complicated relationship with the nature of the intuition functions, but the nature of your title and post is phrased very close to ofensiveness. 

That being said, as an ISTJ, I am very prone to catastrophizing. Let's say, my workplace is being sold to another company: I'd go like my future career is doomed, and that I'll need to work on more curricular activities and finding a new carrer, job, look and maybe I'll find no market because of a number of reasons and that I need to improve myself or else I will get homeless and without love. 

And when the trade is finally made, I happen to actually be promoted. That's inferior Ne at its worst. But it happens sometimes.


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## Jorji (Oct 24, 2009)

Ah, not trying to be offensive in general, but I am put out with Gertrude in particular...as she has a tendency to never get it right.

I can see where the post could be offensive...and for that, I apologize.


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## Jorji (Oct 24, 2009)

I might also add that my b/f is an ISTP, and I very much trust his opinions and observations. His judgments seem accurate and sound to me.

In addition, my son is an ESTP, and he's sharp. He's able to size up a situation quickly and accurately.


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## Ace Face (Nov 13, 2011)

On the contrary, @Herp... Se and Si inferiors, when in the grip of the inferior, begin to notice what's right in front of them wayyyy more than is remotely comfortable. 

OP, the inferior can be a real bitch for anybody who experiences it. Inferior Si and Se can be a pretty big bitch, too, though. Ever seen an INTJ in an Se grip? How about an ENFP in an Si grip? If you'd like to see how scary that can be, I can hit you up the next time it's happening to me. Hell, it's happening to me right now. I've become withdrawn for the most part. I've been pushing myself to try to socialize on the forum at least a little bit. My goal is at least five posts a day, and at least one visitor message to someone. I don't really feel like talking to anybody... not even those close to me. I'm obsessing... literally obsessing over things that I normally wouldn't even begin to get this involved with. I'm paying extra super close attention to my body, the very minute details of my studies... hell, I spent damn near close to ten minutes washing one dish convinced it wasn't clean enough when in reality, it was probably fine after the first two minutes of scrubbing  In my normal state, I'm very concerned with my efficiency and pace. Ten minutes on one stupid dish is absolutely ridiculous. It should never take that long, lol. I've also become unusually sensitive to things like loud conversations, the television... noise that I see as unnecessary just peeves me to no end. I can't concentrate. These are things that are, usually, very simple to tune out. I don't feel that I'm at all operating in my Ne at all. I feel very limited =S I kinda feel stuck right now. The future is very hard to see, and that's not even close to being typical of me. I just don't feel like myself. I'm feeling kinda miserable, but still trying to make the best of what's going on here. I'm trying to pull myself out of it, and do something useful. Idk... blahhhhh. Welcome to the succulent world of inferior Si... eat your heart out.


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## hela (Feb 12, 2012)

TBH, it sounds like she was just hoping for gossip and/or trying to provoke you. That has nothing to do with inferior Ni/e. Do you have any other examples, or is this just an excuse to infer intuituve superiority?


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## Ellis Bell (Mar 16, 2012)

My mom has inferior Ne, and her catastrophes when in the grip are (to me) funny. I've mentioned this multiple times, but when I was younger and living by myself in New York and didn't call for a couple of days, she'd start imagining that i was in a heroin den somewhere. Or, more recently, after the US election. She was a HUGE supporter of Romney and was crushed when he lost... to the point where she sent a mass e-mail out prophesizing about what would happen in the time between now and 2016: gas prices at $7, suicide bombers, Muslims taking over, etc. Inferior Ni would, I imagine, be somewhere along the lines of conspiracy theories or thinking that someone is "out to get" you.


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## Jorji (Oct 24, 2009)

hela said:


> TBH, it sounds like she was just hoping for gossip and/or trying to provoke you. That has nothing to do with inferior Ni/e. Do you have any other examples, or is this just an excuse to infer intuituve superiority?


Honestly, after posting that, I wish I hadn't because it does sound like I'm trying to sound superior...and that wasn't my intent in the least. I can't think of another particular example at the moment, but she does often draw wrong conclusions (take my word or don't...since I can't back it up with details right now). Her memory is far superior to mine.


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## Raichu (Aug 24, 2012)

For me, it's not so much that I get stuff wrong as I just don't trust myself. Even if I have a guess, I won't say anything unless I have facts to back it up. Inferior Ni cannot be trusted.

Ni: Well, I'm not exactly sure, but I have a feeling--
Se: Shut up.
Ni: But I just have this feeling--
Se: Oh, you have a _feeling_? A _FEELING_? I said shut up, Ni. I'm gonna figure this out the _right_ way. With _facts_.
Ni: But I--
Se: Seriously, nobody cares.
Ni: But--
Se: Go.
Ni: ... *cries*


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## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

@Jorji

Interesting topic, hhhmmm lets dig into it a bit shall we.
Could this also be due with with a T dom with inferior perceiving function? Or people just being rude and nosy and putting people down for fun?


(Oh yeah, don't let the T types bully you bite back >.< )


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## Kynx (Feb 6, 2012)

I don't believe it's necessarily due to an inferior N function, I know quite a few Sensors and they don't jump to conclusions like that, unless they're in 'the grip' at the time and then it's negative scenarios surrounding their own personal issues, not about other people's business.


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## pizzapie (Oct 23, 2012)

Jorji said:


> I'm guessing that it's those who have inferior Ne or Ni who seem to always be drawing wrong conclusions. From a small amount of information, they concoct an amazingly wrong scenario.
> 
> Example: Gertrude walks in on my conversation with the cell phone company as I'm trying to upgrade one of the phones. I get off the phone, and she says, "Are you not able to pay your bill?"
> 
> ...


Well...I know you said previously in this thread you didn't want to seem superior, but this just sounds really anti-Si/Se biased. 

Anyway, I don't think Gertrude was wrong to assume that you couldn't pay. If you're asking to waive the fees, then there's probably a reason with finances and not being able to pay those fees. 

But...if Gertrude is an ESxP or ISxJ (having Ne/Ni as their inferior), she's probably no going to be assuming anything. She may ask a question, but it won't be an assumption, but rather a confirmation of what her eyes have observed.


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## Jorji (Oct 24, 2009)

pizzapie said:


> If you're asking to waive the fees, then there's probably a reason with finances and not being able to pay those fees.


LOL! That's all.


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## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

pizzapie said:


> Well...I know you said previously in this thread you didn't want to seem superior, but this just sounds really anti-Si/Se biased.
> 
> Anyway, I don't think Gertrude was wrong to assume that you couldn't pay. If you're asking to waive the fees, then there's probably a reason with finances and not being able to pay those fees.
> 
> But...if Gertrude is an ESxP or ISxJ (having Ne/Ni as their inferior), she's probably no going to be assuming anything. She may ask a question, but it won't be an assumption, but rather a confirmation of what her eyes have observed.


So does this mean that my add on to the idea was a good one?


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## QrivaN (Aug 3, 2012)

raichu said:


> For me, it's not so much that I get stuff wrong as I just don't trust myself. Even if I have a guess, I won't say anything unless I have facts to back it up. Inferior Ni cannot be trusted.
> 
> Ni: Well, I'm not exactly sure, but I have a feeling--
> Se: Shut up.
> ...


Is that how it is for Se dominants? I have one thing to say to your Ni: Man the f*** up! You're crying because the DOMINANT didn't listen to you? You're intuition for Pete's sake! You should've seen it coming.
Ahem...please excuse my outburst. Anyway, this is how it works for me, being Ni dominant:
Ni: Hm...how do we solve this problem? I wonder...
Se: HEY! MAYBE THAT THING OVER THERE CAN HELP! *points in random direction*
Ni: It's just a rock. How would that help?
Se: It may be helpful later on! You'll never know if you don't pay attention to it!
Ni: But I can already tell that it won't help...
Se: IT MIGHT HELP! WHAT DO YOU KNOW? YOU'RE JUST SOME SELF-RIGHTEOUS JERK THAT TRIES TO FIGURE THINGS OUT WITH NOTHING TO GO ON! YOU NEED TO USE FACTS!
Ni: Yes, I need facts. That's where you come in. Stop clouding my judgement with random, useless information.
Se: BUT IT'S NOT-
Ni: *smacks Se with a book* Stop yelling. It's giving me a headache.
Se: WELL YOU JUST-
Ni: *smacks Se wih a book again* You've done enough go back in your room and leave me alone. I'll handle this myself.
Se: BUT-
Ni: *holds up book as if to threaten Se*
Se: FINE! DON'T COME CRYING TO ME WHEN YOU NEED THE ROCK, BUT IT'S GONE BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T PAY ATTENTION TO IT! *storms off*


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

I'd say that any perceiving dominant person is prone to many misunderstandings.
We got an inferior perceiving function after all and the inferior is a primitive function.

And I wouldn't say that conspiracy theories are made by an inferior intuitive function, rather the opposite. Seems as if Ns in general are prone to conspiracy theories.

People with an inferior intuitive function tend to reject conspiracy theories as silly as far as I've seen.


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## Octavarium (Nov 27, 2012)

This thread doesn't make any sense. You're saying that dominant sensing types use their intuition to jump to conclusions. Intuition is a perceiving function, and coming to a conclusion is a judgement, therefore intuition doesn't come to conclusions... or have I got that wrong?


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## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

Wrong conclusions have nothing to do with anything, type-wise. All inferior functions in general might just come to conclusions roughly though. I would say inferior thinking is probably the one most inclined to "go wrong" as a form of reasoning though, since it's the one that's most noticeably not rationalized toward the collective standards (it doesn't mean it's conclusions are wrong, but it's processes/ideas are often pretty foreign to mainstream ideas/knowledge). I don't think inferior S or N would be that noticeable against collective standards, because these functions just work with the contents of a person's mind/mental dynamism, which clearly differs from person to person anyhow (inferior S usually just manifests in a person having a weird relationship to their bodily/affective states, while inferior N usually manifests in a person getting negative hunches and suspicions in a sort of "caught-off guard fashion"). Inferior feeling is often kept secret, just because it tends to rub people the wrong way.


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## JoanCrawford (Sep 27, 2012)

hela said:


> TBH, it sounds like she was just hoping for gossip and/or trying to provoke you. That has nothing to do with inferior Ni/e. Do you have any other examples, or is this just an excuse to infer intuituve superiority?












I don't think she was trying to hurt anyone. She just was curious.


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Octavarium said:


> This thread doesn't make any sense. You're saying that dominant sensing types use their intuition to jump to conclusions. Intuition is a perceiving function, and coming to a conclusion is a judgement, therefore intuition doesn't come to conclusions... or have I got that wrong?


I was saying that because the problem usually is that you misunderstand from the beginning and since that is the perceiving stage...

But @JungyesMBTIno is right, it doesn't really have to do with the function or any type for that matter.


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## Coburn (Sep 3, 2010)

I think up exaggerated conclusions all the time. And then I think "oh, that's some crazy ass nonsense. let's say it aloud and see what kind of reaction we can get..."


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## donkeybals (Jan 13, 2011)

raichu said:


> For me, it's not so much that I get stuff wrong as I just don't trust myself. Even if I have a guess, I won't say anything unless I have facts to back it up. Inferior Ni cannot be trusted.
> 
> Ni: Well, I'm not exactly sure, but I have a feeling--
> Se: Shut up.
> ...


Hey, but introverted functions aren't allowed to talk!

Se: "I'm gonna whoop yo arse Ni"
Ni: *Punches in gut*



About inferior intuition, it did sound to me like the person was trying to provoke you a bit, that'd be my guess also, however, I will say, one good example of inferior intution I'll try to give, is a coworker of mine while working was absolutely convinced our new boss was a spy. It was a pretty out there claim. He is a really likeable dude, and it came off as really funny, but he was serious and just so wrong about it.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

Jorji said:


> I'm guessing that it's those who have inferior Ne or Ni who seem to always be drawing wrong conclusions. From a small amount of information, they concoct an amazingly wrong scenario.
> 
> Example: Gertrude walks in on my conversation with the cell phone company as I'm trying to upgrade one of the phones. I get off the phone, and she says, "Are you not able to pay your bill?"
> 
> ...



As long as we're being theoretical. I can think of a number of reasons that might explain this situation having nothing to do with type: 

1. She might have experienced significant brain trauma when she was younger, leaving her with some gaps in her ability to process information. 

2. She may have ADHD. It would explain why she intruded upon a conversation she wasn't initially involved in and unsuccessfully tried to infer what was being discussed. 

3. She may have a form of learning disability called Anomic Aphasia, where she has trouble recalling, or using, the correct word for objects, places or events. In this case, she actually does know what's going on, but has difficulty recalling the words she wants to use to formulate an easily understood response.

4. She might have an Auditory Processing Disorder, a synchronization issue beween the auditory nerve and the brain. 

5. She may have Receptive Language Disorder, where she has difficulty processing words spoken by others, and thus she is not accurately comprehending spoken words.


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## Cellar Door (Jun 3, 2012)

tanstaafl28 said:


> As long as we're being theoretical. I can think of a number of reasons that might explain this situation having nothing to do with type:
> 
> 1. She might have experienced significant brain trauma when she was younger, leaving her with some gaps in her ability to process information.
> 
> ...


Or maybe she wasn't actually listening. Or maybe she's not that smart. I don't understand how one misunderstanding about a phone call determines someone's function order.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

Cellar Door said:


> Or maybe she wasn't actually listening. Or maybe she's not that smart. I don't understand how one misunderstanding about a phone call determines someone's function order.


You may as well have read my mind. Perhaps you are an iNtuitive? :wink:


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## Donovan (Nov 3, 2009)

JungyesMBTIno said:


> I would say inferior thinking is probably the one most inclined to "go wrong" as a form of reasoning though, since it's the one that's most noticeably not rationalized toward the collective standards (it doesn't mean it's conclusions are wrong, but it's processes/ideas are often pretty foreign to mainstream ideas/knowledge).


cough***strong Te+bias***cough, cough... :kitteh:

i kid, i kid. but seriously though, where would that leave Ti in a conscious form? 
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on a side note to do with something mentioned somewhere in this thread: inferior S-types will and will not be likely to ascribe to conspiracies/doomsday prophesies, it would just depend on the level of health of that relationship between their dominant and their inferior. an exaggerated conscious attitude can can rob one of the objective/subjective factor, giving rise to the mental energies that accompany the inferior and loosening the hold and dissolving the act subjugation the dominant had over it, causing a lesser defined function to more readily surface. in a "healthy" individual this imbalance wouldn't occur and the dominant viewpoint would remain in power, which could give one the inclination to scoff at anything it sees as "farfetched/crazy". (not even going into what "healthy" is, or even if "unhealthy" could be beneficial to development)

but these intuitions from S-dominants aren't always wacky or off-base (sometimes they're spot on). and other times i can see what they're talking about an go, "yeah, maybe", but that 'maybe' seems to me a greater one that it does to the them, almost as if it's less discerning (which would make complete sense since it's their most consciously neglected function), but even then, my perception that it's less "discerning" is just my perception, or the degree of subjectiveness of my perception.


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## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

Well, the only reason I said that is because our society is basically dominated by thinking, so someone who downplays it is really going to stand out.


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## Donovan (Nov 3, 2009)

i know, it was jibe more than anything else. but it did remind of the basic argument of a introverted/extroverted take on the same function.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

I think even tertiary Ne can go very wrong if the person is angry, stressed, or crazy. I was friends with this ESFJ for a while and when she gets pissed or falls off of the deep end, she tells other people what they are doing or did as though they were facts. Like "you weren't at your office, you were at your boyfriend's house!" and going around telling other people, as though it were fact, this is what this person is doing and I've figured it out. In fact I notice that my grandfather's ESTJ wife used to do this too. Both women are obvious extroverts, but use their tertiary Ne in an insane way to somehow transmute "what if" possibilities into insane statements of untruth that they accuse you of or tell other people as though they were stated facts that they had seen in front of their faces. 

Or maybe this is a personality disorder. It would only stand to reason, though, that people with a particular personality type would manifest symptoms of _crazy vindictive delusional bullshit_ in a unique way according to their cognitive order. 

"You did this! Yes you did!" It's something they try to piece together by "clues" then become convinced they are right. This is some kind of tertiary or inferior intuition.

I think what I do is become very self-protective and paranoid if my Ni is unhealthy, like instead of accusing others of imaginary scenarios that I've cooked up, I'll just be sure that people's intentions are not good or kind, and I can even go into some kind of analysis paralysis, where I'll feel very depressed because I'm living in my head and not experiencing life. 

Inferior Sensing annoys me when people don't notice or appreciate the world around them, I guess. I think it can also cause certain individuals to construct entire intellectual or ethical systems that are too detached from reality to work or be practical, but sound really good to them in theory, but ignore current or historical facts. This annoys me mostly in the realm of ideas and debate and politics.


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## Cellar Door (Jun 3, 2012)

tanstaafl28 said:


> You may as well have read my mind. Perhaps you are an iNtuitive? :wink:


I got the idea as I was showering as part of some aha moment, so you're probably right. You probably have strong Fe because you were able to read me so well.


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## Jorji (Oct 24, 2009)

fourtines said:


> I was friends with this ESFJ for a while and when she gets pissed or falls off of the deep end, she tells other people what they are doing or did as though they were facts. Like "you weren't at your office, you were at your boyfriend's house!" and going around telling other people, as though it were fact, this is what this person is doing and I've figured it out.


I'm pretty sure the person in my OP is ISFJ. I said it in another thread earlier today, I just don't get xSFJs. They're great people, and I can like them, but there never seems to be a real connection. They throw me off with their conclusions, can't follow their line of reasoning. It's a deficiency in my own understanding.


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## electricky (Feb 18, 2011)

This could also be a case of someone trying to be conversational/investigative/helpful, rather than actually settling on the jumped conclusion. 

What comes to mind with the whole getting-it-wrong-then-jumping-to-conclusions thing is sitcoms. So so so much of it in sitcoms..... it's the entire concept behind some of them (_Three's Company_ perhaps being the most repeat offender: "Omigosh Mr. Furley is behind the apocalypse because I heard him say something about the Mayans and a weather changing machine, even though it's totally possible that he was just joking around about it with someone on the phone!"). Most of the TV cases happen to be the classic developed sensing but underdeveloped intuition pattern, rather than the reverse, even though both can have their setbacks.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

Cellar Door said:


> I got the idea as I was showering as part of some aha moment, so you're probably right. You probably have strong Fe because you were able to read me so well.


It's my tertiary function, but I do try to make the most of it. :wink:


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## Doom (Oct 25, 2010)

When it comes to trying to communicate with S types I think I come off as too vague and expecting people to understand perfectly what I am trying to say. There was a thread a while ago where I figured I'd explained something perfectly but when they responded to me it seemed like either they're not quite getting what I am saying or I was not being clear enough. 

Things bore me a lot more these days and I dislike that, I didn't mind my obsessive nature. Would this be a result of my inferior Se ?


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Jorji said:


> I'm pretty sure the person in my OP is ISFJ. I said it in another thread earlier today, I just don't get xSFJs. They're great people, and I can like them, but there never seems to be a real connection. They throw me off with their conclusions, can't follow their line of reasoning. It's a deficiency in my own understanding.


I don't know what it is, but when they are unhealthy they terrorize me; otherwise I like them and get along with them fine.


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## Jorji (Oct 24, 2009)

Doom said:


> they're not quite getting what I am saying or I was not being clear enough.


It's called "an intuitive leap." We leave out information, and jump ahead, thinking others are following the trail. In all honesty, many times, they have no way of knowing how to follow...because we leave out that much information.



> Things bore me a lot more these days and I dislike that, I didn't mind my obsessive nature. Would this be a result of my inferior Se ?


This is an example of an intuitive leap. Where the hell did that come from (LOL). Not picking on you...I do it all the time.


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## Jorji (Oct 24, 2009)

fourtines said:


> I don't know what it is, but when they are unhealthy they terrorize me; otherwise I like them and get along with them fine.


This one was terrorizing me, until I decided to throw it all back in her lap. She's always been controlling and manipulative, but she's getting worse. She uses the cold shoulder to manipulate people into doing what she wants...it used to eat at my soul. I lost sleep, I had major stress issues, it was so bad a couple of times that I went to the ER thinking I was having a heart attack. After those episodes, I finally realized it wasn't worth it. So now, *PLEASE GIVE ME THE COLD SHOULDER!!!* At least THEN, I don't have to put up with your ass for awhile. Pisses her off that it doesn't work anymore.

Yes, she's probably unhealthy...and I should be ashamed for not being more understanding.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Jorji said:


> This one was terrorizing me, until I decided to throw it all back in her lap. She's always been controlling and manipulative, but she's getting worse. She uses the cold shoulder to manipulate people into doing what she wants...it used to eat at my soul. I lost sleep, I had major stress issues, it was so bad a couple of times that I went to the ER thinking I was having a heart attack. After those episodes, I finally realized it wasn't worth it. So now, *PLEASE GIVE ME THE COLD SHOULDER!!!* At least THEN, I don't have to put up with your ass for awhile. Pisses her off that it doesn't work anymore.
> 
> Yes, she's probably unhealthy...and I should be ashamed for not being more understanding.


You don't have to be ashamed for being hurt and angry about being emotionally abused. There's nothing to be ashamed about, especially since she tormented you so much that you had panic attacks. 

However, you know, maybe the fact that she's unhealthy can help you to forgive her once you get distance from her.


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## Jorji (Oct 24, 2009)

fourtines said:


> You don't have to be ashamed for being hurt and angry about being emotionally abused. There's nothing to be ashamed about, especially since she tormented you so much that you had panic attacks.
> 
> However, you know, maybe the fact that she's unhealthy can help you to forgive her once you get distance from her.


Thank you for that. She's forgiven...always will be. I just don't like being around her. I'm never comfortable with her.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Jorji said:


> Thank you for that. She's forgiven...always will be. I just don't like being around her. I'm never comfortable with her.


There's no need to be around anyone who abuses you, you can forgive someone and protect yourself at the same time. Good luck with everything. *hug*


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