# ENTP or ENTJ? Or is it ENTX? :(



## Shinji Mimura

The first time I tried MBTI I got ENTP. So far, it seems that the ENTP and I are two peas in a pod.

But every time I've taken similar tests, I either get ENTJ or ENTP with a very, very close line between P and J, sometimes 50-50.

I'm not wise enough on this sort of thing to know what makes a J different than a P, or an ENTJ than an ENTP, but it just seems as though I'm more of an ENTP. So why do I keep getting ENTJ on tests? :/

Also, does X stand for "either"? Because that might be better for me :O


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## Helios

Fill out a questionnaire love. Then we can get this party started.


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## Shinji Mimura

Thanks dear. Well, I guess I'll be using the stickied one:
http://personalitycafe.com/whats-my-personality-type/99679-whats-my-type-questionnaire.html

0. Hmm...not really. I'm sort of going through a tiny bit of a personality change, but it's not one that I think would affect my type. It's tiny, I promise

1.http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7117/7718910974_39a6e18e77.jpg
Ooooh I like it a lot. I love how it's darker on the left and lighter on the bright. It could suggest that dark things are coming for that schooner. I also like how the water is green instead of the usual blue.

2. Ah, no worries. Let's just call Triple A.

3. Hmm...is the afterparty cool? Because it will probably suck. But I'm down like a clown. I love parties. I also don't trust that they won't drink; who gets excited about an afterparty so they can be sober?

4. Depends on the claim and the belief. It also depends on how much I love the friend. I mean if it's a friend I probably wouldn't really care. But for the sake of argument...*shrug*. If they made some super serious claim about religion or being Republican, two things I despise heavily, I'd either ridicule them or have some sort of debate or explain to them why I don't approve of what they said. This is kind of a crappy question, because if it's really a friend of mine I'm probably not going to really care.

5. Again, totally depends. Normally I don't care. I mean, as an atheist I know I'm in the minority, and I've debated enough with Republicans and Libertarians to know that debate goes nowhere in a politically divided circle, so nowadays I probably wouldn't care. Again, depends on the comment, the crowd, etc. I like debate and I hate stupid people, and I know I would normally ridicule or debate with them, but, chances are I'd just ignore and move on. I can take disagreement, is my point.

6. We could be here a while, so I'll abridge the list and the explanations. I think we ought to look out for all people in our nation. I think that we stand best as one when we are all on equal footing, and divided when we are not. I'm against any form of discrimination and most forms of prejudice. I believe that an educated mind should be of top tier priority, and that the thinking mind is better than the passionate heart. I believe kindness is a virtue expected by all, and should therefore be upheld by all. Yeah I could keep going so I'll stop.

I came to determining by basically realizing what works versus doesn't work. I do what works.

7. a) As in...what 1 thing? Hmm...I guess my uniqueness. Very few have crossed my path and left without thinking I'm one of the most novel, interesting, unique characters they've met. I have an extremely diverse personality that is coupled with maturity and noble traits.
b) The only answer I can put isn't exactly an answer to the question. It's not that I wouldn't change anything about my personality, rather, it's that in order to change what I'd want changed (hypothetically), I'd have to also go back in time. I wish I wasn't so mature. So seasoned. All my life I've felt way too old. I was never a "normal" kid, teen, or college-aged person, and by the time I graduate college it won't matter anymore since I'm merely be "an adult." But, yeah, I associated with people my own age because I've always had so much more experience, so much more wisdom. I sort of wish I did a lot of the stupid crap that people my age (when I was that age) did, but I always knew better. So, yeah, I guess that's my answer.

8. *shrug* I don't much care for gut feelings or hunches.

9. a) Writing, sex, conversation, singing
b) sex, being lazy, saying I'll do something and then not do it

why:
a) Writing: Creativity is my #1 trait, so I put it to good use. Sex: Isn't it obvious? Conversation: It's what makes friendships occur. It's how I know what's on the speaker's mind. It lets me get things off my chest. Etc. Singing: It's...fun?
b) Sex: Isn't it obvious? Being Lazy: I hate being lazy. It upsets me. But I do it a lot, as I'm not a big fan of deadlines or being pushed into doing things. Saying I'll do something and then not doing it: Basically the same logic as being lazy, only it's even more painful since it's a broken promise sort of ordeal.

10. I don't repress a whole lot. Most of my friends and I are extremely forward and outward with each other, so there's little to repress. Otherwise...*shrug*, I used to give my opinion on things a lot, but I've become less vocal about that. I mean, I still do, but I tend to only do it when its pertinent to the dialogue. Other than that...*shrugface* it's generally all on the table

-------

Do I need to take another one?


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## Helios

Mmmmmmmm I don't know. You're a tricky little fellow, so I don't want to jump at anything just yet. Please take this test, it's very useful: Keys 2 Cognition - Cognitive Processes


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## Shinji Mimura

I took it, and wow, how inaccurate. ISFP? Wtf? I'm at least 75% extroverted. My concern is with P vs J, not anything else! -_-

http://www.keys2cognition.com/cgi/survey48.pl

I feel gipped.


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## Helios

Shinji Mimura said:


> I took it, and wow, how inaccurate. ISFP? Wtf? I'm at least 75% extroverted. My concern is with P vs J, not anything else! -_-
> 
> http://www.keys2cognition.com/cgi/survey48.pl
> 
> I feel gipped.


I can't see that. You should have copy pasted the results here, along with the other two types that they gave you. Cognitive functions are actually what make being an ENTP and ENTJ vastly different.


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## Shinji Mimura

FacelessBeauty said:


> I can't see that. You should have copy pasted the results here, along with the other two types that they gave you. Cognitive functions are actually what make being an ENTP and ENTJ vastly different.


...-_- great, now I have to take it all over again. Hope I remember my answers :x. I'll do that now, although I must say, I hope the results help you, because the three types they likened me to don't at all describe me :/.


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## Helios

Shinji Mimura said:


> ...-_- great, now I have to take it all over again. Hope I remember my answers :x. I'll do that now, although I must say, I hope the results help you, because the three types they likened me to don't at all describe me :/.


Alright. Could you tell me what those were?


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## Shinji Mimura

FacelessBeauty said:


> Alright. Could you tell me what those were?


Welp, I retook it and got the same results. I am disappoint.

Se (34) > Si (27)
Ni (27.9) > Ne (21.9)
Te (29) > Ti (28.8) [like barely :/]
Fi (40.1) > Fe (31.9)

#1 Type suggestion: ISFP (not even close)
Dominant Process: Fi (not true, I'm a T)
Auxiliary Process: Se (again not true, all other tests have iNtuition as my highest result)
Other type suggestions: ESFP and ISTP (again, both untrue: iNtuition repeatedly is my highest result, followed closely by E)


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## Thomas60

Regardless of what the cognitive function test thinks your mbti is, the results of it sway more to ENTJ than ENTP.


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## Helios

Shinji Mimura said:


> Welp, I retook it and got the same results. I am disappoint.
> 
> Se (34) > Si (27)
> Ni (27.9) > Ne (21.9)
> Te (29) > Ti (28.8) [like barely :/]
> Fi (40.1) > Fe (31.9)
> 
> #1 Type suggestion: ISFP (not even close)
> Dominant Process: Fi (not true, I'm a T)
> Auxiliary Process: Se (again not true, all other tests have iNtuition as my highest result)
> Other type suggestions: ESFP and ISTP (again, both untrue: iNtuition repeatedly is my highest result, followed closely by E)


Hmmmm. The tests usually have some useful qualities to them. You're not thinking of it in terms of cognitive functions but the preferences among certain dichotomies. Have you considered ESTP? Just a simple question.

Well I'm calling in some help (shameless mentions). Tough case, this one. @Acerbusvenator @LeaT @Flatlander @gingertonic @hornet @Brainfreeze_237 @Crono91


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## Flatlander

I'll take a crack at it, after I've dealt with dinner.


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## Antipode

FacelessBeauty said:


> Hmmmm. The tests usually have some useful qualities to them. You're not thinking of it in terms of cognitive functions but the preferences among certain dichotomies. Have you considered ESTP? Just a simple question.
> 
> Well I'm calling in some help (shameless mentions). Tough case, this one. @_Acerbusvenator_ @_LeaT_ @_Flatlander_ @_gingertonic_ @_hornet_ @_Brainfreeze_237_ @_Crono91_


xD He's an ENTP. You can tell with his first 4 answers alone.


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## Helios

Crono91 said:


> xD He's an ENTP. You can tell with his first 4 answers alone.


I really disagree with your assessment because I'm not seeing any sort of preference for Ne going on here. ENTJ is much more likely.


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## Antipode

FacelessBeauty said:


> I really disagree with your assessment because I'm not seeing any sort of preference for Ne going on here. ENTJ is much more likely.


""Ooooh I like it a lot. I love how it's darker on the left and lighter on the bright. It could suggest that dark things are coming for that schooner. I also like how the water is green instead of the usual blue.""

He is predicting using foreshadowing, that seems more Ni than Ne--or am I wrong on my thinking?

EDIT: Oh damn, I wasn't even reading  You're right, ENTJ seems better.


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## Flatlander

Crono91 said:


> ""Ooooh I like it a lot. I love how it's darker on the left and lighter on the bright. It could suggest that dark things are coming for that schooner. I also like how the water is green instead of the usual blue.""
> 
> He is predicting using foreshadowing, that seems more Ni than Ne--or am I wrong on my thinking?
> 
> Oh damn, I wasn't even reading  You're right, ENTJ seems better.


I actually read Se/Ni in that.


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## Helios

Crono91 said:


> ""Ooooh I like it a lot. I love how it's darker on the left and lighter on the bright. It could suggest that dark things are coming for that schooner. I also like how the water is green instead of the usual blue.""
> 
> He is predicting using foreshadowing, that seems more Ni than Ne--or am I wrong on my thinking?
> 
> EDIT: Oh damn, I wasn't even reading  You're right, ENTJ seems better.


But that being said, I'm not sure about the order of his stack so he might not be ENTJ either. I believe he uses similar functions though.


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## Antipode

FacelessBeauty said:


> But that being said, I'm not sure about the order of his stack so he might not be ENTJ either. I believe he uses similar functions though.


I'm not very skilled with order of functions, I still just try to figure out the letters. And he is definitely an E, and I'm almost sure he is N over S--I think when he uses S, it is actually being used with intuition, and he is a T. But, I really do get a Perceiving vibe over a judging. He seems much more spontaneous and not very rigid in his way of thinking.


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## Helios

Crono91 said:


> I'm not very skilled with order of functions, I still just try to figure out the letters. And he is definitely an E, and I'm almost sure he is N over S--I think when he uses S, it is actually being used with intuition, and he is a T. But, I really do get a Perceiving vibe over a judging. He seems much more spontaneous and not very rigid in his way of thinking.


Agreed. The spontaneity goes against Te dominance though, since it is concerned with order pretty much. It suggests extraverted perception being the top function, but not necessarily Ne (Which would make him an ENTP). I think ESTP or ESFP (ESxP) could work as well.


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## Antipode

FacelessBeauty said:


> Agreed. The spontaneity goes against Te dominance though, since it is concerned with order pretty much. It suggests extraverted perception being the top function, but not necessarily Ne (Which would make him an ENTP). I think ESTP or ESFP (ESxP) could work as well.


Well you're probably right :] I'm sure Master LeaT will pop in with her usual halo of guiding-typing-light :crazy:


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## Flatlander

Shinji Mimura said:


> @_MegaTuxRacer_ - I will at least attest to being an E. I don't think it's in any way possible that I can be an I, and I'm honestly extremely doubtful you could make a case for me being so. Not that you spoke strongly on the assertion, but, yeah, if I'm an introvert, I'm the lousiest, laziest introvert there ever was.


It's not that you're an "E", it's that you're a cognitive extravert who starts with the world outside you and works in. In whatever way, be it Se or Te, or even Ne as you think.

By the way, where have you gotten your understanding of functions?



> @_Flatlander_ -
> 
> 1. Well, when it comes to being laid-back in my introverted child days, I'm mostly just going to restate that, if you were to meet me in real life, even if no words were exchanged and you were observing me from afar, it's visually clear I'm a laid-back sort of character. You definitely wouldn't look at me as a youth and say, "He looks laid-back." I wasn't the antithesis to being laid back, of course, rather, when I was a kid I gave off the image of an extremely creative extremely independent person who also so happens to have amazing people skills. However, the is only the one side: the other side you would see, from a glance, is that I don't talk. I don't start conversations. I make no effort to join groups.


Totally consistent with Enneagram image type.

Also, I don't see a Te- (or even Se-) type as necessarily being prone to these things. Joining groups? Talking? Conversation? Well what if you just aren't interested in these things? They require not only some measure of spontaneity, but also a want for immersion in society, which you can be an extravert and not have.



> If you knew my personality, then, yes, you'd learn that I was a laid-back not-worried cool-headed individual. But you wouldn't use that as a descriptive term from a far glance.


Okay.



> 2. Yep, when I took the test on this very website I got 3w2. I thought "The Charmer" was aptly named since that's easily one of my specialties.


I'm curious about the people skills you keep talking about. Can you go more into detail?



> 3. I think acting is creative when actors are actually ACTing. As in, having a camera film you and being given a fake name isn't acting. To me, acting is when you can watch a movie with a blind fold and never guess the actor/actress because they are portraying a character so well. Or, if that character happens to not need any special voice, then real acting conveys real, appropriate emotion, and feels real and not like acting at all.


Watching a movie, blindfolded? Amusingly paradoxical. I got the idea, though.

What defines if a character is portrayed well? How do you know that their emotions are real?



> I wouldn't say my writing has good planning at all. I'll elaborate.
> 
> Let's say I want to write a story about a detective who's investigating a case all on his own. That's the introduction.
> 
> Usually, though, I tend to start most stories knowing only the ending. Usually I'll have a vision or thought of what is generally the ending, and I'll build around that.
> 
> So, yeah, I'll already know the end and from that end I'll very quickly know what I'd want for the beginning, middle, and little side events here and there. To me, that isn't planning; it's instinct.


It may feel like instinct, but it looks to me like planning. It looks like really confident planning, too.

I mean, it could be just envisionment, depending on how you're doing it. But the dominant function will probably always feel this way, like writing with your dominant hand, assuming you aren't somehow impaired.



> For me, the people who plan are the people who get writer's block because what happens if they reach a point in their story that they didn't plan for?


Fill in details. Replan.



> Writer's block. Confusion about what to plug in because they didn't plan for the need for extra story.


But you have no such confusion because you already know where your extra story will be.



> For me, I don't plan anything, not in depth at least. Sure, I have the ending, middle, etc planned, but that didn't take time or much thought, it just sort of comes to me as "wouldn't this be cool to have in the story?" so I just write it down and build around it. I'm very good at manipulation and figuring things out so that I also know how to work around them or change them, if I need to. I feel that people who plan aren't going to be prepared for the unplanned for, and, as somewhat suggested from my card game designing, I'm the master at finding out what to do when we reach an unplanned for pit in creativity.


Planning on the fly is win, I agree.



> 3. I'm not sure I have a good grasp on S vs N yet, but it isn't just in creating and understanding card games that requires intuition, it's also playing. Remember, I have an amazing track record as a PLAYER, not as a designer. In order to play card games successfully, it isn't just about knowing how to play your deck properly; it's predicting you and your opponent's next moves based on probability, understanding of their deck type, and their personal habits. I could be wrong, but prediction and understanding said prediction sound more N than S to me. Once you have a grasp on human tendencies, you can also make note of bluffing, one of the hardest things ever to learn...unless you're skilled in prediction.


Not at all.

The question is how you gather your intuitions. You sound like you collect data in order to come to a conclusion, which sounds more Sensing -> Intuition to me; the functions are presumed work in a pair, filling in for each other to create a more complete picture of the world.

So the question is which is introverted and which is extraverted. I _still_ get the feel of Se and Ni from you: an observation of the external world's facts, and an internal impression that fills in the holes to find what meaning you think lies beneath. I could be wrong, though, and it could be Si and Ne: a personal impression of the facts of the world around you, filled in with your objective projections of how they could manifest later.

It's really hard for me to explain why I get this impression. Your description of the picture in the beginning of the questionnaire, though, captured it perfectly imo.



> 4. I had made reference to being an introvert who also possessed amazing social skills, yet was also extremely quiet and reluctant to join groups, so here's where I explain in regards to being ignored/seeking attention.
> 
> Simply put, I was forced into introversion. I was an extrovert until I was 8. I didn't have any friends, and nobody was willing to talk to me, nor did my talking get me anywhere, so I developed a bit of a reserved personality. I was still social, on the inside, but with nobody to talk to and nobody willing to talk to me I stopped putting myself out there. I was still extremely talkative with my friends, who didn't go to school with me, but, otherwise, I became a mute.


I can see how it might get confusing, then, but you're practically telling me you aren't a natural introvert.



> When I hit middle school, and people started finally noticing my existence, I still wasn't one to take the hint from social cues. When I was being flirted with, I was always too embarrassed and shy, and also worried that maybe it was a joke and I was the victim, so I never acknowledged the flirt. When there was a girl I should've made the move on, again, never could; too shy, too embarrassed, too afraid of rejection or that maybe she was just being nice to the quiet kid.


An odd potential hint at inferior Feeling.



> Amongst my friends, I was still the loud mouth and the potty mouth, but once I left my friends it was back to quiet.
> 
> So, to sum it up, yes, I was embarrassed, shy, and afraid of rejection, being made into a joke, etc. That much was true. But my quietness was merely a result of being ignored, and that made me realize there was no point in being talkative or extroverted if there isn't anybody who cares. I always have had amazing social skills, just not always the chance to use them.


As you yourself said, you are probably an "E".



> Either way, don't confuse the motivation for being in a band for my personality. I mean, there are many, many other perks to being a famous musician. When I first decided to become a musician, yes, my reason was because I felt there was a genius that the world was missing out on because they never gave it a chance.


I think this speaks more to your Enneagram than your MBTI.



> Well, that reason still remains, but I'd say it's eclipsed by a less self-centered reason, and that is that I'd like to join the ranks of many other artists who write songs that help others through their lives. I like knowing that my music could have healing power over people in the same way that other's music has had over me. I'm pretty sure EVERY artist wants their internal voice to be heard.


And here might be your w2.

I'm thinking that this is what's making you seem to agree with Fe-style values and aims. You seem otherwise fairly Te to me.



> 5. I'm not sure anymore where I stand on the Fe/Fi scale. What I read about Fi describes me very well, but I'm definitely the type of jerk who likes to push his subjective as if it were objective.
> 
> As far as Ti, I mean, again, what I read made Te definitely not an option. Right now, I'm teetering between Si-Ne-Fi-Ti and Si-Ne-Fe-Ti.


What did you read?



> Maybe I need some hypotheticals, because it seems that the only one who thinks of me as an Ne is me :/


Hypotheticals?

Alright. Let's try one.

Assume you're a bus driver. You are confronted with someone who refuses to pay their fare. How do you face it; what do you do? Why?


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## Shinji Mimura

INTJellectual said:


> I'll come back to you after a few days or weeks. Good luck. ;-)
> 
> 1) What aspect of your personality made you unsure of your type?
> 
> I was made unsure of my type because almost all the tests I take these days tell me I'm an ENTJ and it's pissing me off. I am indeed a rather judgmental person, but I wouldn't refer to myself as an ENTJ type of person.
> 
> 2) What do you yearn for in life? Why?
> 
> That is waaaay too huge a question for a simple questionnaire. I yearn to be a great father. I yearn to be successful in that which I put my mind to. I yearn to educate and help others so that they know not of the pains that I do. I yearn to be a revolutionary known as widely as possible, so that others can look to me as a source of inspiration for their own revolutions.
> 
> 3) Think about a time where you felt like you were at your finest. Tell us what made you feel that way.
> 
> At my finest? Hmm...I felt at my finest when I was widely-liked for the right reasons, and people didn't dislike me for incorrect reasons. I felt at my finest when I was loved by a woman that I so deeply loved in return. I felt at my finest when it became clear to me that even though my life is a constant series of being shit upon, it does get better, eventually.
> 
> 4) What makes you feel inferior?
> 
> Powerlessness. It has come to my attention that the only thing that truly makes me feel claustrophobic is knowing there's nothing I can do about certain situations. I liken myself to a hare or a rabbit; I am extremely good at finding my way out of situations, as well as finding ways to manipulate or twist if charm does not work directly, and, that aside, I am rather infamous for my stupidly good luck that I always seem to find, so when I have neither luck nor ability to function, I start to break.
> 
> 5) What tends to weigh on your decisions? (Do you think about people, pro-cons, how you feel about it, etc.)
> 
> Depends on what the decision is. I guess the best answer is "logic." Is what's about to be done logical? That doesn't mean I won't do the crazy or risky; those are "logical" because I override the risk involved in them with intelligence.
> 
> 6) When working on a project what is normally your emphasis? Do you like to have control of the outcome?
> 
> Too broad a question to really know how to answer.
> 
> 7) Describe us a time where you had a lot of fun. How is your memory of it?
> 
> Could be any number of stories, could be here forever writing them. One memory involving fun was one of my ex-girlfriend's prom nights. My memory of it is crystal clear.
> 
> 8) When you want to learn something new, what feels more natural for you? (Are you more prone to be hands on, to theorize, to memorize, etc)
> 
> In an ideal world, the best way to learn something new is with a physical teacher who can teach the way I learn best. I'd need to do some sample problems or whatever to make sure I get it, and then I would need some sort of test to see how I would do without training wheels. I suppose this is "hands-on", in a way. Memorization is crappy, but it's also a part of almost anything that can be learned.
> 
> 9) How organized do you to think of yourself as?
> 
> That depends. I consider myself to be an apathetic/lazy organizer. Like, I can be very clean, orderly, even organized to a custom degree, but I also have no care nor am I compelled to do so, so it happens when it happens.
> 
> 10) How do you judge new ideas? You try to understand the principles behind it to see if they make sense or do you look for information that supports it?
> 
> Well, whenever I judge anything I basically stew over it. I think, okay, what is it? Is it good or bad? Smart or dumb? Worthy or unworthy? And then, whatever answer I get, I question what makes that answer the right answer.
> 
> 11) You find harmony by making sure everyone is doing fine and belonging to a given group or by making sure that you follow what you believe and being yourself?
> 
> That second one.
> 
> 12) Are you the kind that thinks before speaking or do you speak before thinking? Do you prefer one-on-one communication or group discussions?
> 
> On the first question: both. I think before speaking, but not literally. I don't actually sit and contemplate and then speak. Rather, all of my thoughts are super well thought-out and boosted by facts, evidence, etc. So...I do speak before I think, but that's because any thinking that would have needed to have been done already has been. In the case that it hasn't, then, yes, I might stumble a bit as I think-and-speak.
> 
> I like 'em both. I like one-on-one more because it's more intimate, but I still love me some group dialogue, fo sho.
> 
> 13) Do you jump into action right away or do you like to know where are you jumping before leaping? Does action speaks more than words?
> 
> Action > words, knowing > impulse
> 
> 14) It's Saturday. You're at home, and your favorite show is about to start. Your friends call you for a night out. What will you do?
> 
> Night out. Joke's on you; I don't have a favorite show. If I did, I'd Tevo that shit.
> 
> Seriously though, friends > selfishness. Unless said selfishness is porn and I'm in the mood; then they can wait.
> 
> 15) How do you act when you're stressed out?
> 
> I don't get stressed.
> 
> ...okay, I do, but it takes a lot. Like, it takes the Great Depression for me to get stressed. And when I'm stressed...*shrug* I'm cool-headed. I'll pop on my iPod, get laid, eat food, something to take the edge off.
> 
> 16) What makes you dislike the personalities of some people?
> 
> I dislike a lot of things, so...
> 
> Hmm...pettiness. I don't like people that are in petty, gossamer, unfulfilling relationships. I don't petty revenge. I don't like arguments. I don't like jealousy. And, most of all, I hate it when people call me arrogant. Never is that word used to describe me, and it never has been. Every time I have heard it used, it has been used not because I was being or am arrogant, but because they are petty, and they cannot accept that I am not, and that I realize that they are and I am not. I know it seems unfair, but don't blame me when all it takes is a positive change.
> 
> 17) Is there anything you really like talking about with other people?
> 
> Yep. Life, politics, sex, relationships, psychology, sociology, philosophy, education, religion, children, anything that's a part of the game of life. I'm a big fan of life.
> 
> 18) What kind of things do pay the least attention to in your life?
> 
> My family.
> 
> Honestly, I can't think of anything that I just...don't pay attention to; I'm pretty attentive. But, yeah, my family doesn't exist, and even if it did I'd try my hardest to ignore it.
> 
> 19) How do your friends perceive you? What is wrong about their perception? ? What would your friends never say about your personality ?
> 
> Well if my friends ever thought wrongly of me, that wouldn't make them friends, now would it? I think my friends have a pretty good perception of me.
> 
> What would they never say about me? Besides that I'm not petty?
> 
> They'd never say I have self-awareness or self-control issues. I'm always on my A-game vis-a-vis selfish matters. I know who I am, how I am, how others see me, etc. I'm also the opposite of being over emotional.
> 
> 20) You got a whole day to do whatever you like. What kind of activities do you feel like doing?
> 
> Fun ones. We could be here a while, and this was definitely the most draining questionnaire I've taken so far (lots of great questions, though!)


Yeah I'm definitely not prepared for 4 questionnaires right now XD. Also, come back for me in a few days/week? Are you going on vacation? Lol, aren't you normally online at this time? Just hit me up when you aren't busy dear . Anyways, I'll put the answers in the quote and bold them.


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## Flatlander

Also, I need to go to sleep. I'll try to be around tomorrow for more inquisition, and maybe I'll come back with a new perspective.


----------



## Shinji Mimura

Flatlander said:


> By the way, where have you gotten your understanding of functions?
> 
> *There's a link on page 3*
> 
> I'm curious about the people skills you keep talking about. Can you go more into detail?
> *
> You had quoted me when I was talking about The Charmer, and I had said it was my specialty. I wasn't referring to people skills directly, rather, I was referring to being charming (which is a people skill but still).*
> 
> What defines if a character is portrayed well? How do you know that their emotions are real?
> *
> Well, the easiest way to put it is, "If you know the craft, you can tell." Similar to how you could tell good craftsmanship if you made a similar product to the one you're analyzing, or how you could tell who really understands MBTI and function analysis versus who's just trying to help out/get their opinion in.
> 
> *I can see how it might get confusing, then, but you're practically telling me you aren't a natural introvert
> *
> That would be because I'm a natural extrovert.*
> 
> An odd potential hint at inferior Feeling.
> *
> I wouldn't take into account anything about how things used to be. I've been a changed man since the 8th grade (as in, after what all I had described to you) and have been growing in this new path ever since. To look at the far distant past as if it holds water isn't accurate because I don't treat that part of my life has having happened.*
> 
> What did you read?
> 
> *Another reference to the URL link on Page 3 provided by the Thomas user.*
> 
> Assume you're a bus driver. You are confronted with someone who refuses to pay their fare. How do you face it; what do you do? Why?
> *
> Is it possible to get a new question? This one is a bit difficult because you have to consider your job.
> **
> In an ideal world, I would ask why they aren't willing to pay, and if they gave an understandable reason I'd forgive it and tell them that it's just the one time.
> **
> However, in the real world, I would have to stick to the rules of the job, especially if they were being rude. The problem is that I can't just focus on this one guy who isn't willing to pay, because what happens if the next 20 people aren't willing to pay? I either break the rules 20 times or I follow them.
> **
> Not to be difficult, but, like I said, I feel like this is more of a question of "is your job (and dignity lol) worth losing just because somebody doesn't want to follow the rules?" I think if you removed the "I might lose something" element, it'd be a better question, because, as I said, if I wasn't at risk of losing my job, I'd probably be rather forgiving. Given the job element, though, I'm not willing to consider their situation because now that puts me in a bad position.*


 @Swordsman of Mana – I’d say both, but closer to the Ne side.


----------



## Swordsman of Mana

@Shinji Mimura
most TJs would have immediately related to the Te description I posted, thus I think you're probably an Ne dom (though I could see you as an ENFP, you seem NF-ish more than NT-ish from what I've seen of your posts)


----------



## Entropic

Well, I do think he's an Fi user with strong Te. ENFP or ESFP is likely in my opinion. 

With that said, I became lazy at some point reading all responses carefully. Will try to do that now.


----------



## Entropic

FacelessBeauty said:


> You silly duck, I'm no ENTP. I'm enjoying their label though. If we have anything in common it might be a higher preference for Te if anything.


LOL!

For some reason this made my day.

I am more certain about EFP now. I still don't see Te being dominant over Fi. I see so much Fi with Te backing it up. Also, at least judging on what Te users have written in the NTJ vs INTP writing style thread, it appears as only non-Te aux and at least need to structure their writing like that  Suggests that Te style does not come naturally. I also think that what @_FacelessBeauty_ thought was Fe was TeFi in that order. 

I am 100% sure about perceiving dom.

I think ENFP. I was going to say ESFP but something is not right about that. He could just have a decent S but decent S doesn't mean that S is being used with Fi. 

So verdict: ENFP.


----------



## nujabes

Can you retake a cognitive function quiz and specifically answer with *how you think* instead of *how you act*.

For example, "I see the world as... ...a place that has to be logically organized for it to make any sense at all."

Regardless of whether or not you are an organized person, do you naturally feel a need to organize your thoughts, surroundings, etc? I've learned to impose order on my life, but I don't naturally try to organize... anything. That's why Te shows up higher in my stack than you'd expect, but not high enough to be considerable, nor do I identify with it.

I need some statistical data to put your answers/this thread in perspective, and I don't like the first set we got.


----------



## Helios

LeaT said:


> LOL!
> 
> For some reason this made my day.
> 
> I am more certain about EFP now. I still don't see Te being dominant over Fi. I see so much Fi with Te backing it up. Also, at least judging on what Te users have written in the NTJ vs INTP writing style thread, it appears as only non-Te aux and at least need to structure their writing like that  Suggests that Te style does not come naturally. I also think that what @_FacelessBeauty_ thought was Fe was TeFi in that order.
> 
> I am 100% sure about perceiving dom.
> 
> I think ENFP. I was going to say ESFP but something is not right about that. He could just have a decent S but decent S doesn't mean that S is being used with Fi.
> 
> So verdict: ENFP.


Can you show me where the Ne is? I've had a difficult time pinpointing it with this guy. I keep getting what seems to be a projection of the idealized type rather than the actual type.


----------



## MNiS

@_Shinji Mimura_ - I think you're an ESFP. The cognitive functions test you took indicated ISFP for you but you seem to enjoy drawing a lot of attention to yourself so extroverted SP makes more sense for you.

Plus you don't mind raising a half alien baby with INTJ women which is even more of an indication of ESFP.


----------



## Yedra

*You give me an ENTP vibe and here is what basically gave you away in my opinion:
*


Shinji Mimura said:


> 4. Depends on the claim and the belief. It also depends on how much I love the friend. I mean if it's a friend I probably wouldn't really care. But for the sake of argument...*shrug*. If they made some super serious claim about religion or being Republican, two things I despise heavily, I'd either ridicule them or have some sort of debate or explain to them why I don't approve of what they said. This is kind of a crappy question, because if it's really a friend of mine I'm probably not going to really care.
> 
> 5. Again, totally depends. Normally I don't care. I mean, as an atheist I know I'm in the minority, and I've debated enough with Republicans and Libertarians to know that debate goes nowhere in a politically divided circle, so nowadays I probably wouldn't care. Again, depends on the comment, the crowd, etc. I like debate and I hate stupid people, and I know I would normally ridicule or debate with them, but, chances are I'd just ignore and move on. I can take disagreement, is my point.


To me this looks like Ne vs Si. You see possibilities and you loathe those stereotypical "Si-good citizens" who you deem to be conservative and whose horizon is limited. Maybe you could relate to the pieces of Voltaire (ENTP) or Oscar Wilde (ENFP) where they mock society and its hypocrisy.
So Ne-dom and Si-inf are established.

Now you have to decide what your internal judgment(Ti/Fi) and external action (Te/Fe) is.
And I believe to have found the proof here:



Shinji Mimura said:


> 6. We could be here a while, so I'll abridge the list and the explanations. I think we ought to look out for all people in our nation. I think that we stand best as one when we are all on equal footing, and divided when we are not. I'm against any form of discrimination and most forms of prejudice. I believe that an educated mind should be of top tier priority, and that the thinking mind is better than the passionate heart. I believe kindness is a virtue expected by all, and should therefore be upheld by all. Yeah I could keep going so I'll stop.
> 
> I came to determining by basically realizing what works versus doesn't work. I do what works.


According to your words, what is valuable to you must also apply universally. What is good for you can't be bad for others. You see where people can find common ground and the goal should be to establish unity. Nowhere do I see values that are directed at the subject only. Thus, I conclude that your internal judgment is Ti because it looks for what is universally true as opposed to what is only important to the subject (Fi).
Therefore your function for external action will be Fe. You will establish connections with others based on your Ti values and since it is not developed as your Ne and Ti it will be more playful and not as refined as the one of an ExFJ for example.

It's Ne Ti Fe Si → ENTP


----------



## Entropic

FacelessBeauty said:


> Can you show me where the Ne is? I've had a difficult time pinpointing it with this guy. I keep getting what seems to be a projection of the idealized type rather than the actual type.


Because I don't see the Se either


----------



## Flatlander

Shinji Mimura said:


> By the way, where have you gotten your understanding of functions?
> 
> *There's a link on page 3*


I see. Yeah, I'm looking at it, it looks like it's as pointed toward describing how the functions _look_ in people or make them act, as it is how they actually shape thought. You can read something like this and gather what Te is "really" about, which is just the logical organization/differentiation of the external world, and why it might tend to lead to planning behavior. In a Te-dom, real flexibility might take time for you to grow into, it comes about when you start developing your other functions. In an Ne-dom, flexibility would probably be a norm, and structure would be built as you develop their other functions.

Doesn't mean the two can't show up in different ways than depicted, especially when older. If you went about your life positively fixed into the perspective of only one function, you would be unbalanced as a whole. 



> I'm curious about the people skills you keep talking about. Can you go more into detail?
> *
> You had quoted me when I was talking about The Charmer, and I had said it was my specialty. I wasn't referring to people skills directly, rather, I was referring to being charming (which is a people skill but still).*


It makes things easier if we can get a read on what's actually going on mentally when you're doing this. Are you consciously trying to charm people? As Nardi would ask, is it a learned skill?



> What defines if a character is portrayed well? How do you know that their emotions are real?
> *
> Well, the easiest way to put it is, "If you know the craft, you can tell." Similar to how you could tell good craftsmanship if you made a similar product to the one you're analyzing, or how you could tell who really understands MBTI and function analysis versus who's just trying to help out/get their opinion in.*


A read on intrinsic quality. Surprisingly Si-like; possible confounding factor is a lack of details.



> I can see how it might get confusing, then, but you're practically telling me you aren't a natural introvert
> *
> That would be because I'm a natural extrovert.*


Things are what they are, eh.



> An odd potential hint at inferior Feeling.
> *
> I wouldn't take into account anything about how things used to be. I've been a changed man since the 8th grade (as in, after what all I had described to you) and have been growing in this new path ever since. To look at the far distant past as if it holds water isn't accurate because I don't treat that part of my life has having happened.*


It doesn't make sense to me to completely cordon off your past like that; it still contained the seeds of your future. It's interesting to me that you want to do this.

I sense distaste for your past; am I correct?



> Assume you're a bus driver. You are confronted with someone who refuses to pay their fare. How do you face it; what do you do? Why?
> *
> Is it possible to get a new question? This one is a bit difficult because you have to consider your job.
> **
> In an ideal world, I would ask why they aren't willing to pay, and if they gave an understandable reason I'd forgive it and tell them that it's just the one time.
> **
> However, in the real world, I would have to stick to the rules of the job, especially if they were being rude. The problem is that I can't just focus on this one guy who isn't willing to pay, because what happens if the next 20 people aren't willing to pay? I either break the rules 20 times or I follow them.
> **
> Not to be difficult, but, like I said, I feel like this is more of a question of "is your job (and dignity lol) worth losing just because somebody doesn't want to follow the rules?" I think if you removed the "I might lose something" element, it'd be a better question, because, as I said, if I wasn't at risk of losing my job, I'd probably be rather forgiving. Given the job element, though, I'm not willing to consider their situation because now that puts me in a bad position.*


I wanted to see if you'd make this sort of dichotomy between ideal and real. In my reading, this brings out an Fi/Te-like attitude - sticking to the established _impersonal_ guidelines of the world because you judge it to be in your best interest, rather than going with the Fe/Ti-ish proposal you made within an ideal world. Essentially, I was testing the actual strength of the Fe-like values you proposed against a real world situation. Some might've said "screw the job, I'm going to help this guy out if his justification is good enough" or perhaps tried to see ways around the situation, and so forth; I can see a large range in potential in answering this question. 

Change the scenario please, this one isn't ideal. This might be a nudge in the direction of guided intuition.

I'm still trying to see where people are getting a read on you as perceiving dominant. I suppose Ne dom is possible here, but it still seems to me like you're using an awful lot of reasoning with less reliance on your perception.


----------



## MegaTuxRacer

Shinji Mimura said:


> @MegaTuxRacer - I will at least attest to being an E. I don't think it's in any way possible that I can be an I, and I'm honestly extremely doubtful you could make a case for me being so. Not that you spoke strongly on the assertion, but, yeah, if I'm an introvert, I'm the lousiest, laziest introvert there ever was.


I will attest to you being an I since I think you are an Fi dominant. Introversion doesn't mean you aren't sociable or that you can't be the loudest person in the room. I have seen some pretty raucous introverts in my time. I even have an ISFP friend who is convinced that he is a very logical thinker and an extravert when he very clearly is Fi dominant. Furthermore, laziness has nothing to do with introversion vs. extraversion, and I have no idea where you got that idea.

Basically it comes down to this: what I see in you here is what I notice in Fi dominants who are trying to be experts at things they are not experts in. That isn't a knock on you or Fi dominants either. I believe it is an unconscious, Te-driven wont for competence and to be heard. The fact is that I don't really find much logical in your posts. They are predominated by value judgments that I believe come from within.

I don't really see Ti or Ne in you at all, or for that matter, Si or Fe. It could very well be that you were forced into introversion (known as being caught in the inferior grip). That happens to a lot of people. It happened to me. If you are in fact an ENTJ, you would have looked like a very unhealthy ISFP, and that may still be manifesting itself simply through habit. Ultimately, it's up to you to decide on your type because none of us know your experience in life nor can we see in your brain. From what I have seen, I am going to say xSFP with a strong lean towards ISFP.


----------



## Monkey King

Fi-Se. You use a lot of internal value judgements that become filtered by your inferior Te. 



Reading the responses here makes me think people have no fucking clue what Te is. Most people just think that Te-doms are just a bunch of people who makes lists and shit. Unfortunately, this is the first indication they have no clue what Te means. Most of the first few posts are misinformed as are you. Educate yourself: 

Classics in the History of Psychology -- Jung (1921/1923) Chapter 10

Also, why do you reject the cognitive test that gave you an ISFP result and accept the test that placed you as an ENTJ? 

Lastly sensing is all about concrete data and intuition is exactly what it is, _hunches_ that may or may not be backed up by concrete data.


----------



## MegaTuxRacer

Monkey King said:


> Fi-Se. You use a lot of internal value judgements that become filtered by your inferior Te.
> 
> 
> 
> Reading the responses here makes me think people have no fucking clue what Te is. Most people just think that Te-doms are just a bunch of people who makes lists and shit. Unfortunately, this is the first indication they have no clue what Te means. Most of the first few posts are misinformed as are you. Educate yourself:
> 
> Classics in the History of Psychology -- Jung (1921/1923) Chapter 10
> 
> Also, why do you reject the cognitive test that gave you an ISFP result and accept the test that placed you as an ENTJ?
> 
> Lastly sensing is all about concrete data and intuition is exactly what it is, _hunches_ that may or may not be backed up by concrete data.


Would you be offended if I said that I was slightly turned on by this post? Because I was.


----------



## Entropic

Monkey King said:


> Fi-Se. You use a lot of internal value judgements that become filtered by your inferior Te.
> 
> 
> 
> Reading the responses here makes me think people have no fucking clue what Te is. Most people just think that Te-doms are just a bunch of people who makes lists and shit. Unfortunately, this is the first indication they have no clue what Te means. Most of the first few posts are misinformed as are you. Educate yourself:
> 
> Classics in the History of Psychology -- Jung (1921/1923) Chapter 10
> 
> Also, why do you reject the cognitive test that gave you an ISFP result and accept the test that placed you as an ENTJ?
> 
> Lastly sensing is all about concrete data and intuition is exactly what it is, _hunches_ that may or may not be backed up by concrete data.


I disagree. Si can give hunches just as much as Ni can. I think only those two functions are in fact capable of giving them.


----------



## MuChApArAdOx

Monkey King said:


> Fi-Se. You use a lot of internal value judgements that become filtered by your inferior Te.
> 
> 
> 
> Reading the responses here makes me think people have no fucking clue what Te is. Most people just think that Te-doms are just a bunch of people who makes lists and shit. Unfortunately, this is the first indication they have no clue what Te means. Most of the first few posts are misinformed as are you. Educate yourself:
> 
> Classics in the History of Psychology -- Jung (1921/1923) Chapter 10
> 
> Also, why do you reject the cognitive test that gave you an ISFP result and accept the test that placed you as an ENTJ?
> 
> Lastly sensing is all about concrete data and intuition is exactly what it is, _hunches_ that may or may not be backed up by concrete data.


Thank you. I was hoping someone would come by and straighten this nightmare of a thread out. I read it last night, there was just too many things wrong about most of the post to motivate myself into leaving a correction. Clearly Te is so out of reach for some to understand, lets just call this thread what it is, a disaster, hot mess.

To the OP. It would be much more advantages to you to read around the forum about functions. There is just so much misinformation in this thread. I wish we had a masters list here available for newbies. There are some amazing people here who could tell you in a logical and simple fashion about the functions you're questioning. Observe the posters, you will see which ones are educated and knowledgeable, ask them, even if you see them on a thread that isn't related to this. They will help you, not confuse and play this merry go round game.

Fi is the most obvious/clear in your responses. I won't suggest which order it's in, although don't let people convince you Fe is within your first 4 functions, it's not. Good luck with your search, find people who are well educated , this kind of information is a waste of time for you.


----------



## Shinji Mimura

Wow, lots to say. Let's begin...
@gingertonic - I don't feel a natural need to organize things. If I ever organize anything, it's just for convenience and because, in an ideal world, things would be organized. But, no, I don't see something disorganized and feel some compulsion to organize it. Like I said, if it makes it more convenient for myself or others, then possibly, but I would never go to a bookstore and just walk around correcting all the messes people leave.
@yedra - I like your line of thinking 
@Flatlander - 

"In a Te-dom, real flexibility might take time for you to grow into, it comes about when you start developing your other functions. In an Ne-dom, flexibility would probably be a norm, and structure would be built as you develop their other functions."

Flexibility is a norm for me.

"Are you consciously trying to charm people? As Nardi would ask, is it a learned skill?"

I would say that it is a learned skill. Anybody can socialize without needing to learn what is and is not appropriate. When it comes to charm, I'd say that I'm naturally charming, but that, for some others, it's something they have to "come into" since charm is both a personality trait and a verb.

I don't think I consciously charm people at all; I'm usually just myself and people become charmed by that intrinsically.

"I sense distaste for your past; am I correct?"

Not at all. It's just not relevant to me.
@MegaTuxRacer - I haven't really had any real reason to be too terribly logical about anything. My logical side is applied heavily towards all things, but mostly in debate. I'm aware of logical fallacies, and I'm also not the type to let emotions fuel my debate. I'm the sort of person who will break down everything you say, point for point, and explain to you why that is incorrect. I try to stick my absolute hardest to that which is factual, but, sure, I can't say that I don't slip in some opinions. The thing is, opinion or fact, I always make my cases extremely logical.

Even if it weren't a debate, any speech or paper I've ever prepared is, again, thought-out, well-researched, and based heavily on two things: facts and logic.

Take that as you will.

As far as introversion, again, I just don't see what qualities of an introvert I possess. You had mentioned that Fi claim to be experts at things they are not. I can't say I agree with that being a description of me, but I also don't think that one bit heavily suggests I'm introverted.

I'll state my case for feeling a confirmed extrovert, and please feel free to explain your case or where my case is faulty:

Why I'm an extrovert
1. I not only enjoy social situations, large groups, and crowds of strangers, but I PREFER to be in them.
2. Not only do I not need "alone time", I find it selfish and trite
3. I don't get drained or easily annoyed by people, conversation, or public outings
4. Of my circle of friends, I'm the loudest and most talkative. I'm the one who tends to start, and dominate, conversations
5. I'm more likely to talk to a complete stranger than to hope they talk to me
6. I have my own thoughts, but I almost make most people aware of them (whether verbally or because they read my writings)
7. I'm not shy, embarrassed, or quiet about...really anything.
8. I'm active. I don't just have extroverted thoughts; I match them with extroverted actions.

Feel free to dissect that as you wish.
@Monkey King - I'm more likely to accept ENTJ because it is only one letter away from ENTP, and the times I've scored ENTP the P was the lowest result, very close to even with J.

ISFP is not even in the ballpark. I've taken 5 of the MBTI tests, and while they may be inaccurate, I find it odd to think that I got two ENTP, two ENTJ, a tie between ENTP and ENTJ, and then, all of a sudden, ISFP.

As stated above, I in no way can believe introversion. It's going to take a compelling piece of literature to show to me how I'm an introvert, because I'm not seeing it.

S and F I suppose the jury's still out, but I'd say the only two letters I'm curious about now are F and J. I've come to learn that, perhaps, Fe might be a good description of me, but Ne Si Fe Ti (not in any particular order) would be consistent with an ENTP.

That was, until I saw this:

<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); background-color: rgb(249, 249, 249); ">




If that video is accurate, then I'm a confirmed Ne, hands-down.
@MuChApArAdOx - I'm sorry to hear there's so much non-professionalism. I can definitely tell who actually knows versus who is taking a stab. Do note, I've been analyzing all opinions and have been waiting for things to flesh-out more and become more concrete.

I'd very much not like this to be closed. As shitty as this sounds, I'd much rather the people who know better come to me than for me to dig around the forum. The reason, by the way, is just because I don't honestly trust that looking around the forum will do me any good.

I've been going to the ENTP forum ever since I got here, and, so far, I feel as though they are me (and the few I've talked to agree that I am they). However, after posting here, I've only found one person who can agree that I am ENTP; everybody else is stabbing at ESFP, ESFJ, ISFP, ENTJ, ESTP, just a whole list of things.

I'd very much like to see what the people continue to do with what I post. If anything, it might be totally possible that my uneducated brain is in for a brain treat, and that I might leave this as something totally unlikely ENTP (though I think it's clear I'm not ISFJ, good lord >_>)


----------



## MegaTuxRacer

Here's the part where I tell you that I can't hear you over how right I am.



Shinji Mimura said:


> @MegaTuxRacer - I haven't really had any real reason to be too terribly logical about anything. My logical side is applied heavily towards all things, but mostly in debate. I'm aware of logical fallacies, and I'm also not the type to let emotions fuel my debate. I'm the sort of person who will break down everything you say, point for point, and explain to you why that is incorrect. I try to stick my absolute hardest to that which is factual, but, sure, I can't say that I don't slip in some opinions. The thing is, opinion or fact, I always make my cases extremely logical.
> 
> Even if it weren't a debate, any speech or paper I've ever prepared is, again, thought-out, well-researched, and based heavily on two things: facts and logic.
> 
> Take that as you will.


It's interesting how you say that you have a logical "side" and that it appears that you have kind of let down your guard here to not be so logical. That isn't to say that thinking means logical, but there is a distinct correlation that I don't really see here. I am not really talking about you slipping in opinions or anything. I am saying that you simply do not use a thinking function in your top two. That's it. It simply is not there. I will get into why I am not going to present a further case as to why your dominant function is Fi here in a bit.



> As far as introversion, again, I just don't see what qualities of an introvert I possess. You had mentioned that Fi claim to be experts at things they are not. I can't say I agree with that being a description of me, but I also don't think that one bit heavily suggests I'm introverted.


I would say that it's a description of you because you continue to go through here disagreeing with people that have more correct information than you based on the limited and faulty information you have. You continually disagree on peoples' assessments based on valid information by throwing things out like being very T-oriented and that you have more character traits associated with E than I. That stuff doesn't matter. Throw out all of the facts and figures that you ever gained based around that model of typology. It means nothing.

Honestly, trying to sway you from an idea you have your heart set on is like doing so with any other Fi dominant I have encountered: it's like trying to tickle a brick wall in the hopes that it will crumble in a fit of giggles.



> I'll state my case for feeling a confirmed extrovert, and please feel free to explain your case or where my case is faulty:


Needless to say, I can't _wait_ to see.



> Why I'm an extrovert
> 1. I not only enjoy social situations, large groups, and crowds of strangers, but I PREFER to be in them.
> 2. Not only do I not need "alone time", I find it selfish and trite
> 3. I don't get drained or easily annoyed by people, conversation, or public outings
> 4. Of my circle of friends, I'm the loudest and most talkative. I'm the one who tends to start, and dominate, conversations
> 5. I'm more likely to talk to a complete stranger than to hope they talk to me
> 6. I have my own thoughts, but I almost make most people aware of them (whether verbally or because they read my writings)
> 7. I'm not shy, embarrassed, or quiet about...really anything.
> 8. I'm active. I don't just have extroverted thoughts; I match them with extroverted actions.
> 
> Feel free to dissect that as you wish.


Gladly.

1. Has nothing to do with introversion or extraversion.
2. Has nothing to do with introversion or extraversion.
3. Has nothing to do with introversion or extraversion.
4. Has nothing to do with introversion or extraversion.
5. Has nothing to do with introversion or extraversion.
6. Has nothing to do with introversion or extraversion.
7. Has nothing to do with introversion or extraversion.
8. Has nothing to do with introversion or extraversion.

Introversion is gaining inspiration from within in the context of a function. Extraversion is gaining inspiration from without in the context of a function. The "I" or "E" in your type is determined by whether or not the dominant function is introverted or extraverted.

Since emphasis is important to you I will be as emphatic as possible here: *None of what you listed has anything to do with introversion or extraversion! Nothing! None of it does! It does not, none of it! Think of another way to say that, and insert it here! Do it again!*

I hope this was emphatic enough.


----------



## Shinji Mimura

Promethea said:


> From what little I know of you (sans the questionnaire -- I don't think that they always get to the point) I wouldn't say that you seem directive-oriented like a Te dom. At a glance, I would wonder if you are perhaps an Se dom.
> 
> There are some things that I'm curious about that have little to do with the mbti stereotypes. Firstly, how are your relations with others -- are you 1. easy going, welcoming of pretty much everyone, rarely get into an argument or dislike anyone? 2. Dramatic, like to have a presence, quickly divide people up into whos ok, and whos the enemy? 3. Not focused on having a presence, but harshly judgmental toward -some- others? or 4. Accepting but more on the fringes of a social group, and you genuinely think each person has some goodness within them and something to bring to the table?


Hmm...well I'll take your question and answer it by building on some things...

-I'm definitely more easy-going and welcoming than most others. I'm great with new people and strangers, and am also good going into huge groups where nobody knows me

-I don't "like" to have a presence (as in, I'm not going to force it or make people notice me), rather, my intrinsic nature does tend to give me that presence whether I like or not (in a sort of "life of the party" kind of way; I'm just being myself, and that alone attracts the eyes and attention)

-I don't divide people into okay or enemy, rather, I'd say I learn rather quickly who are the people I enjoy talking to, who are the ones I don't, as well as the ones I, thus, like and dislike. I wouldn't really call that "okay/enemy", nor would I say that I ARBITRARILY do it, but I suppose it could be the same line of thinking, in the end.

-Again, I'm never FOCUSED on having a presence, or TRY to have one; I just...have one lol.

-I'm not so much judgmental against people, like, I wouldn't say "I like you so I won't judge you, but I don't like them so I'll judge them." Rather, I'm way more judgmental against THINGS. Actions, interests, opinions, personality traits, etc. That sort of judgment is for all people, regardless of whether I like you or not. I don't do it all the time; I'm not a constant judgmental machine. But I am rather blunt and straightforward.

-I do think that all people are unique and have something about them they could offer, so yes.

I think one of the other problems in trying to type myself IS that I have such a dual nature. Internally, I am very spiritual, very nature-minded, very in the clouds and peaceful, but externally I'm outgoing, fun-loving, loves to meet new people and try new things, is extremely open with his life, his opinions, etc, and this, of course, tends to lead people to thinking I'm arrogant or forceful, etc.

I also have a rather chameleon, flip-floppiness to me, whereby, in spite of this dual nature, I tend to adapt to the people and situations I'm in and can tweak bits of me so that it more appropriately suits where I'm at and who I'm with.

This sort of thing can make it difficult trying to pin-point intrinsic qualities about me because while I have my internal side, as described above, I also have my real-world action side, which can, in some ways, be totally different.

I'm not bi polar or some yin yang; I'm not constantly meditative on the inside and constantly outgoing on the outside. I'd say that, neutrally, I'm a good balance in the middle, but this of course is also conflicting because mid-points could go either way, especially given circumstances.


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## Promethea

Shinji Mimura said:


> Hmm...well I'll take your question and answer it by building on some things...
> 
> -I'm definitely more easy-going and welcoming than most others. I'm great with new people and strangers, and am also good going into huge groups where nobody knows me
> 
> -I don't "like" to have a presence (as in, I'm not going to force it or make people notice me), rather, my intrinsic nature does tend to give me that presence whether I like or not (in a sort of "life of the party" kind of way; I'm just being myself, and that alone attracts the eyes and attention)
> 
> -I don't divide people into okay or enemy, rather, I'd say I learn rather quickly who are the people I enjoy talking to, who are the ones I don't, as well as the ones I, thus, like and dislike. I wouldn't really call that "okay/enemy", nor would I say that I ARBITRARILY do it, but I suppose it could be the same line of thinking, in the end.
> 
> -Again, I'm never FOCUSED on having a presence, or TRY to have one; I just...have one lol.
> 
> -I'm not so much judgmental against people, like, I wouldn't say "I like you so I won't judge you, but I don't like them so I'll judge them." Rather, I'm way more judgmental against THINGS. Actions, interests, opinions, personality traits, etc. That sort of judgment is for all people, regardless of whether I like you or not. I don't do it all the time; I'm not a constant judgmental machine. But I am rather blunt and straightforward.
> 
> -I do think that all people are unique and have something about them they could offer, so yes.
> 
> I think one of the other problems in trying to type myself IS that I have such a dual nature. Internally, I am very spiritual, very nature-minded, very in the clouds and peaceful, but externally I'm outgoing, fun-loving, loves to meet new people and try new things, is extremely open with his life, his opinions, etc, and this, of course, tends to lead people to thinking I'm arrogant or forceful, etc.
> 
> I also have a rather chameleon, flip-floppiness to me, whereby, in spite of this dual nature, I tend to adapt to the people and situations I'm in and can tweak bits of me so that it more appropriately suits where I'm at and who I'm with.
> 
> This sort of thing can make it difficult trying to pin-point intrinsic qualities about me because while I have my internal side, as described above, I also have my real-world action side, which can, in some ways, be totally different.
> 
> I'm not bi polar or some yin yang; I'm not constantly meditative on the inside and constantly outgoing on the outside. I'd say that, neutrally, I'm a good balance in the middle, but this of course is also conflicting because mid-points could go either way, especially given circumstances.


What sorts of people in general are you more drawn to continue to communicate with? 
And can you describe the way you communicate with these people?
What kinds of topics do you bring up, for example, and what are people's reactions often?


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## Shinji Mimura

Promethea said:


> What sorts of people in general are you more drawn to continue to communicate with?
> And can you describe the way you communicate with these people?
> What kinds of topics do you bring up, for example, and what are people's reactions often?


Wow...big questions.

Well, I'm more into personality traits than physical things (as in, I don't really care which "group" you may or may not belong to, even if I may so happen to have more friends out of one "group"). The people I'm more likely to communicate with should have the following qualities, in any mix: maturity, intelligence, and sense of humor. I like people who know who they are (or are on that journey of self-discovery), know their goals (or are trying to find them), are all about being themselves (and are thus full of self-awareness), who both express themselves and allow me to express myself without reprimand, who are relaxed, funny, and don't have their guard up. Who have lots to say about themselves and are full of opinions that they can express at the drop of a hat. People who are adventurous and will try new things. Etc.

The way I communicate...vocally, duh . Well, my circle of friends and I, again, are all rather open. We can discuss whatever and usually provide responses and feedback; rarely are there moments where people cannot contribute. We're the types of people whose closeness allows us to constantly insult and make fun of each other, knowing full and well we don't mean anything by it. We tend to discuss things from a more complex or in-depth level than a simple one.

Hmm...life, love, the future, college, politics, religion, cool discoveries and knowledge we've learned recently, entertainment, plans, etc.


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## Promethea

Shinji Mimura said:


> Wow...big questions.
> 
> Well, I'm more into personality traits than physical things (as in, I don't really care which "group" you may or may not belong to, even if I may so happen to have more friends out of one "group"). The people I'm more likely to communicate with should have the following qualities, in any mix: maturity, intelligence, and sense of humor. I like people who know who they are (or are on that journey of self-discovery), know their goals (or are trying to find them), are all about being themselves (and are thus full of self-awareness), who both express themselves and allow me to express myself without reprimand, who are relaxed, funny, and don't have their guard up. Who have lots to say about themselves and are full of opinions that they can express at the drop of a hat. People who are adventurous and will try new things. Etc.
> 
> The way I communicate...vocally, duh . Well, my circle of friends and I, again, are all rather open. We can discuss whatever and usually provide responses and feedback; rarely are there moments where people cannot contribute. We're the types of people whose closeness allows us to constantly insult and make fun of each other, knowing full and well we don't mean anything by it. We tend to discuss things from a more complex or in-depth level than a simple one.
> 
> Hmm...life, love, the future, college, politics, religion, cool discoveries and knowledge we've learned recently, entertainment, plans, etc.


Ok, I'm torn between three potential types for you. You're definitely not an Fi dom for one thing. I have been reading your posts on the forum, plus something you said in the post before this one is indicative of Ti in there -somewhere-. When you are reasoning, its obviously not value based. When someone posted that ridiculous okc information for example, your response wasn't a value driven cringe at the slimeyness of such an endeavour, but to quickly point out the lack of logic in the conclusion. You said in a previous post that you are more likely to be critical of things, not people. And so on. This is more of a detached Ti form of reasoning, not a more subjective Fi type of reasoning. 

There are still a few things that are unclear, but I'm getting a pretty good sense of it. When you are engaging a few people and having a good time, are you very likely to know what they think of you in the moment, and does this affect how you are engaging them. Is this more important to you than the actual information in the topic of discussion? - Or is the topic at hand more important than the collective emotional environment?

**And I have pmed the three different profiles for your consideration.


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## Shinji Mimura

Promethea said:


> You seem to have a quick mind.
> 
> There are still a few things that are unclear, but I'm getting a pretty good sense of it. When you are engaging a few people and having a good time, are you very likely to know what they think of you in the moment, and does this affect how you are engaging them. Is this more important to you than the actual information in the topic of discussion? - Or is the topic at hand more important than the collective emotional environment?


Sometimes too quick >_>

-I'd say I'm always aware of how people think of me, mostly because I know how I'm coming off. Just because I may or may not agree with your perception doesn't mean I'm unaware; I'm generally in a pretty constant state of awareness of how I'm coming off to others (AKA how they are perceiving me) and how I am being personally.
-I'd say potentially. It depends. A lot of the time, people perceive me incorrectly. When they tell me of their perception, depending on their logic, I may or may not respect their misconception. But if we were having a good time and I was knowingly being an asshat, again, it depends, but I'd say more than likely I could bend a bit if I was really bringing down the mood that much.
-I'd say the topic at hand is more important. I mean, thankfully my circle and I are similar enough to not really find ourselves in awkward silences or angry airs, but I've found myself in situations where peace was destroyed and arguments ensued, but because of their illogicality and what have you, I stood up. I'm not the biggest fan of people carrying faulty information/failed traits with them as though it were true, and then watching them defend their shittiness when they are in clear need of some correction.


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## Promethea

Shinji Mimura said:


> Sometimes too quick >_>
> 
> -I'd say I'm always aware of how people think of me, mostly because I know how I'm coming off. Just because I may or may not agree with your perception doesn't mean I'm unaware; I'm generally in a pretty constant state of awareness of how I'm coming off to others (AKA how they are perceiving me) and how I am being personally.
> -I'd say potentially. It depends. A lot of the time, people perceive me incorrectly. When they tell me of their perception, depending on their logic, I may or may not respect their misconception. But if we were having a good time and I was knowingly being an asshat, again, it depends, but I'd say more than likely I could bend a bit if I was really bringing down the mood that much.
> -I'd say the topic at hand is more important. I mean, thankfully my circle and I are similar enough to not really find ourselves in awkward silences or angry airs, but I've found myself in situations where peace was destroyed and arguments ensued, but because of their illogicality and what have you, I stood up. I'm not the biggest fan of people carrying faulty information/failed traits with them as though it were true, and then watching them defend their shittiness when they are in clear need of some correction.


More Fe than Fi. I'll be curious to see which of those profiles you think suits you best.


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## Promethea

Promethea said:


> More Fe than Fi. I'll be curious to see which of those profiles you think suits you best.


You'd be the third mbti entp that I have typed in socionics as EIE. The systems don't completely coorelate, and mbti shamelessly goes more by stereotypes than socionics does, so I say that a person can most certainly be an eie in socionics and entp in mbti. The closest thing to eie in mbti is enfj though - if we pretend the functions mean the exact same things cross system (which they don't). 

I came to this conclusion because you have strong socionics beta values, which was obvious in the last couple of posts in here where I could see that you are very in tune with the emotional atmosphere. I think that you are pretty slick with people because of your attunement to this. You probably pick up on subtle cues easily and know what to say to get what you want. I find that eies are often quite clever this way. Now this may seem left-field, but I think that its common for one to mistake their Fe for Ne. Fe is making broad expansive connections that seem to come a bit magically instead of deliberately, like Ne. 

Free expression is one of the values that made me tune into beta valuing for you. When you described your friends, it also made me think of a quote that I relate to groups of betas, particularly when an eie is in the mix:

“The only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn, like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody goes "Awww!”
- Jack Kerouac 

As for what to type as in mbti -- well take your pick. entp is just fine here for all practical purposes. the enfjs on this forum are god-knows-what in socionics, but I doubt most are eie.


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## Shinji Mimura

Great perspective, @Promethea

I guess what we might be seeing here is more of an overall ENTP personality exhibiting some ENFJ tendencies. It's sort of like how I'm a Pisces, but sometimes exhibit tendencies of Leo and Libra, or how I'm metal, but I'd say I have wood and water tendencies.


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## bearotter

Reading over this thread a bit more thoroughly, I'm going to say it's hard to gather a lot of the functions even close to for certain. However, points to note:

I do believe Flatlander was correct in his Te/Fi assessment when he talked about your values. 

Since you wanted to know about thinking and feeling, and the Ne/Ni discussion got crazy, I'll mention that we should clarify from the beginning of the thread: do not stereotype feeling types as emotional. I'm admittedly a bit borderline, but I at least identify pretty strongly with the INFJs I've seen so far. However, if you met me in real life, my career, talents, awards, and conversational style would all indicate obsession with applying logic to almost every scenario, and obsession with gathering knowledge in all senses. Ultimately, it is not a matter of logic whether you exhibit Fe or not. That's the whole point: those functions don't exclude the possibility of using logic, they're just often associated with things that don't involve logic. 

I agree there's plenty of Se.

I'm personally uncomfortable concluding about Ne/Ni. I find that Ni is often only detected after you ask the right kinds of questions. And as for Ne, I think there are others better up to the task of identifying.

As for thinking: well, where do you tend to use thinking functions, in your experience, most? 

For whatever reason, one of the few functions I'm not seeing as making an impact is Ti.


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## Shinji Mimura

Well, what is your response to @Promethea suggesting I'm Fe?


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## bearotter

Well, the latest responses, more than the questionaire, seem to offer Fe, which is to say strongly orienting yourself (chameleon) based on how others think, and regardless of being on the brash side, it's there.

I would doubt INFJ, which is one Fe user. If Promethea is suggesting your top function is Xe, I can understand.


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## Shinji Mimura

Promethea had a discussion with me about ENFJ, and, as mentioned earlier, what I'm coming to face is that, in essence, while I am mostly one type, it isn't overbearing or particularly prominent. Whether I'm more ENTP or ENFJ is still being stewed about, but I'm honestly siding more with ENTP. I think I'm only ever ENTJ in certain social situations; I don't think it's an all-encompassing thing like ENTP would be for me.

That said, I think it's abundantly clear that my top function is Xe. Whether it's Fe, Ne, or Se is still anyone's guess, especially since I've heard all 3 backed by good reasoning.


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## bearotter

It may be best to understand that after lots and lots of introspection. I was briefly discussing with LeaT about how to discover your dominant, and she herself suggests it's a subtle thing, but ultimately it's the function that is most natural, gives you the most energy, that you enjoy using. This is probably different from the function one assigns value to, etc, etc. 

Normally, responses like "I like associating with people who aren't stupid" wouldn't be the most Fe-indicative thing, but who knows deep down what your motivations are for saying things like that? It depends how drawn you are to the processes of Fe. You may have a terrifically developed one of any three of those, but it may not be the dominant. 

When I suggested I am INFJ a while back to someone I know, she kind of chuckled and said, well, maybe when you're in a certain mood, but her main guess was INTP. 

I'm glad she had you consider ENFJ. That's somewhat similar to my type, except with the functions flipped around.


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## Swordsman of Mana

Shinji Mimura said:


> Promethea had a discussion with me about ENFJ, and, as mentioned earlier, what I'm coming to face is that, in essence, while I am mostly one type, it isn't overbearing or particularly prominent. Whether I'm more ENTP or ENFJ is still being stewed about, but I'm honestly siding more with ENTP. I think I'm only ever ENTJ in certain social situations; I don't think it's an all-encompassing thing like ENTP would be for me.
> 
> That said, I think it's abundantly clear that my top function is Xe. Whether it's Fe, Ne, or Se is still anyone's guess, especially since I've heard all 3 backed by good reasoning.


ENFJ makes sense, your posts are Fe as hell


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## Shinji Mimura

It makes sense, but ENFJs are Fe-dominant. What I know is that I COME OFF as being super Fe, which tends to lend me in hot water, but I know for fact that that is merely a visage. It's an understandable misconception, but it's a misconception nontheless.


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## Jabberbroccoli

So, what you're saying here... is you're Fe-Dom?


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## Shinji Mimura

Jabberbroccoli said:


> So, what you're saying here... is you're Fe-Dom?


I LOL'd


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