# Hello again... :)



## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

SCENARIO 1

FOCUS ON YOUR FEELING PROCESS HERE

Your significant other just ended your 2 year relationship quite suddenly and with no apparent explanation. Up until this point you had both been talking about marriage and last week you even went to look at rings together. Now he/she won't even return your phone calls or texts. After talking with his/her family you find out that he/she has just been diagnosed with terminal stage 4 cancer.

- Describe how this scenario would make you feel as well as what sort of influences and motivations lie behind those feelings. Why do you feel the way you do?

This would break my heart. First and foremost because, obviously I am about to loose someone I love and care deeply for. I would reach out, and remind him of who I am, and who WE are. Show him that I am strong enough to handle this, and to gently affirm that I am right there for him. No matter what. On the inside I would be hurt that he didn't want to tell me, and I would probably feel a little rejected. I would probably think about if the tables were turned, how I would have reacted in the situation if I were the terminally ill one. I would would prob dwell and circulate the reasons he could have handled it this way, so then I could fully understand it. I wouldn't bother him with these questions and feelings, because all he needs to know is that I am here. I don't want him stressing about me. 

Also, if I didn't know about the cancer thing, I would be turning it over in my head repeatedly, but flipped in different perspectives. Trying to nail down a reason that makes sense. If I know him as well as I think I do, then I probably would have sensed something was up and noticed abnormal behavior. I would have asked. I am very very good at noticing odd behavior. Sensing something is off. It is very natural. I think I would have seen it coming, honestly.

- In this scenario what would you honestly say the primary focus of your feelings would be?

I just feel like I would want so desperately to be by his side, and for him to know I am there to love him 'til the very end. But I wouldn't want to push myself on him either. If he didn't want me to know, there is a reason. I need to respect that reason, but it would KILL me. I would probably loose sleep over it. Just knowing I wouldn't be able to be there in his last days. I would feel so incomplete. I would definitely withdraw. I would dwell. Replay everything over in my head.

SCENARIO 2 

FOCUS ON YOUR FEELING PROCESS HERE

You are in college and this semester both you and your roommate end up in the same class together. You and your roommate get along fairly well and the living situation works but you aren't particularly close. You both typically do your own thing and are rather indifferent to each other. As the semester progresses you excel and become one of the top students in the class whereas your roommate is struggling significantly to grasp the material. The professor assigns a fairly challenging take home test that is a significant portion of your grade. He/she makes it clear that while it is open book, students are to work alone. Later your roommate comes to you begging for help after struggling with the test most of the weekend. You have already completed the assignment and he/she isn't asking to copy your answers, just to help tutor and mentor them as they struggle to complete the test, so there is no way your professor would ever know. However, this is the first time your room-mate has asked you for help this semester. He/she makes it clear that how they do on this test could mean the difference between passing and failing this class.

- How do you respond to your roommate’s request and why?

"Ummm... well, I could help you study. We'll go over the material together, until you get it. But I can't assist with the test itself. Sorry. :/ ".... That was easy. The teacher doesn't want us working on it together, but he never said we couldn't study together...? This scenario is no biggie at all. If for some reason she isn't liking that answer and moreso wanted me to just help her with the test itself, I would politely tell her no. Then I would probably leave for the day, out of awkwardness.

- What sort of things in this scenario stand out to you as far as having a strong influence on your decision making and why?

Well me being at the top, and her at the bottom, I would feel bad and help (the best I could), but I would never ever risk my rank for hers.

- Describe the flow of your decision making process.

First, I would think back to whether or not she is notorious for this behavior, or if the class is truly a struggle for her. If she is genuinely struggling, I would have sympathy and that is when i would offer my assistance. If she is known for this behavior and doesn't ever apply herself, I would be thinking of a way out of this. I would still offer my assistance in helping her study, but not really 'feelin' it. If she was known for this behavior, but is desperate, I may use this opportunity to ask her some questions about the reasons behind her concerns. Like; "so, what happened? Why do you feel like you are struggling in this class? What about it is hard?" etc. Basically so while I am helping her with the studying, she may start to re-evaluate her decisions and priorities. I wouldn't want to moralize her, but moreso provoke a revelation her own terms. 


SCENARIO 3

FOCUS ON YOUR LOGIC AND THINKING PROCESS HERE

Your boss calls you into his/her office in order to assign you to a new project. He/she gives you a choice between two.

Project 1 is a rather broad, expansive project covering multiple areas of company operations. It has the potential to have a very significant impact on company operations but it would require a collective effort and an extensive amount of group work where you would be logically thinking through the project together with the group of individuals your boss has also assigned to it.

Project 2 has a much more specific and narrow focus and would require a significant amount of in depth individual analysis to work through the problem. You would be working alone and the completion of the project may or may not have much impact on company operations. However, after complete the process and problem you were working on will be streamlined and fundamentally understood.

- Which project appeals to you the most, as it relates to the way you prefer to logically process information? Why?

Project 2. Project 1 would stress me out. Making sure everyone is on the same page. Too many different work ethics, opinions, and schedules to condense and harmonize. 

- What sort of things in this scenario, across either project, stood out to you as having a strong influence on your decision? Why?

Project 1 kinda gave me anxiety lol. Project 2 did too, to be honest. Too much goin on in #1, but #2 seemed like too much pressure and weight on just my shoulders. This is why I don't work in a big company.  . But I with #2, I would only have myself to blame for my mistakes, and only I will be credited for my good work. I feel more comfortable with it. 

SCENARIO 4

FOCUS ON YOUR LOGIC AND THINKING PROCESS HERE

Your college professor has assigned you to a group project with 3 other individuals. All 3 of these individuals have a good strong work ethic and desire to contribute to the overall success of this project. You are at the first meeting of your group and the other members are tossing around valuable ideas as to the nature and direction of this project.

- Describe your behavior in this situation as you process and think about the ideas they are presenting.

Firstly, are they original? Over-played? Cliche?... then, do they make sense and are concrete? Are they fun? boring? ... I don't know... for some reason this makes me uncomfortable lol. I just hate group projects period. Two people, I'm cool with. but more than 2 people, ugh...

So my demeanor would really just depend on the atmosphere and vibe of the group. If they are all throwing out ideas, I probably will too. But honestly, i would probably sit back and observe. i will give my input here and there, but wait for a loophole to interject with a brilliant idea that would probably top theirs. While they are all brainstorming out loud, I am collecting and sifting through the good and bad ones, to then come of with a collective idea that is more solid.

- Describe what major influences drive this behavior.

Honestly, I tend to counteract others behavior. So if the energy was really LIVELY and energetic, I end up being the more calm one that brings people back down to earth. But if the atmosphere is more DEAD, I will end up unleashing nervous/awkward (high) energy and they have to bring me back down. It is a very odd thing, really.

SCENARIO 5

FOCUS ON THE SOURCES YOU DRAW NON-PHYSICAL ENERGY FROM HERE

It has been a very long week and you feel mentally and emotionally drained, but good news! It is Saturday and you have nothing significant that needs to be done. You FINALLY have some free time to yourself to recharge your batteries and do whatever you want.

- Describe what sort of activities would help you to recharge. What would you enjoy doing after a long week and why?

Catching up on my shows. Reading. Laying out in the sun. Alone time. Sleeping. Listen to music and relax by the pool. Lounge about basically. Be alone. I need my thinking time.

- What sort of things do you feel you draw non-physical energy from doing?

Movies. I get so lost in them. Music. Art. Anything that I can lose myself in and disengage from reality. 

SCENARIO 6

FOCUS ON THINKING VS FEELING HERE

You have a meeting with your college career counselor to discuss potential careers that interest you. He/she offers you a list of the following careers and asks you to pick your TOP 3. He/she asks you to take money out of the equation. Imagine all of these careers received equal compensation. Focus instead on where you would truly feel most happy and fulfilled.

Artist, Scientist, Actor, Engineer, Musician, Lawyer, Counselor, Entrepreneur, Teacher, Manager, Psychologist, Computer Programmer / Analyst, Clergy, Child Care, Medical Doctor

- What were your top 3 choices and what aspects of these careers appeal to you?

Artist (although I can't force creativity). Musician (a way to truly express myself. music is everything). And a Councelor ( I know I would be great at it).

- Was it difficult or easy to pick only 3 and why?

I kinda just answered that above. Oops.

- Prioritize the aspects of your career choices that influenced your decision, what things mattered most to you, where do you imagine finding the most fulfillment and why?

Anything that I am able to express my inner emotions. Or help people process theirs.

SCENARIO 7

Click on the image below and pay close attention to the things that jump out to you, objects, thoughts, feelings, impressions, ideas etc. What do you see?

Short Effective Scenario Questionnaire 2.0 (Self-Type)-paintedcanyon1fb.jpg

- Describe the main things that stand out to you in this picture.

For some reason, the temperatures. When i look at the water, i can almost feel the coolness. Then when I look over near the trees, i can feel a tingly sensation of the warmth of the sun, tickling my wet and chilled skin. 

- Why do you think/feel you focused on those things?

Not sure. I just felt very emerged into the image, as if I am actually there.kind of like those paintings you see on movies, like the Night at the Museum, where the image is a real place and alive. Well I was able to feel bodily sensations looking at it.

- Describe the strength with which this photo did or did not appeal to you and why?

It appealed to me a lot actually. I was able to get lost, and then.. ehh... reality was back. Boo.


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## Greyhart (Oct 13, 2014)

I feel like my perspective of you is so tainted with details from the flood thread that I can't make an unbiased judgement.

Not sure what to make of image question - that's nothing I could get from it. Si? 4 seems Fe.


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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

Greyhart said:


> I feel like my perspective of you is so tainted with details from the flood thread that I can't make an unbiased judgement.
> 
> Not sure what to make of image question - that's nothing I could get from it. Si? 4 seems Fe.


No problem. Thank you though.


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## Dangerose (Sep 30, 2014)

Your answer to the first question was very Fi imo.
I think INFP.


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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

Oswin said:


> Your answer to the first question was very Fi imo.
> I think INFP.


Thank you, Owsin.


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## Barakiel (May 20, 2014)

I concur with @Oswin, answer 1 seems Fi-Ne, as does 3 and 4. INFP is my guess. :happy:


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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

Barakiel said:


> I concur with @Oswin, answer 1 seems Fi-Ne, as does 3 and 4. INFP is my guess.


Thanks buddy.


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

I think 1 and 3 seems Fi


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## Greyhart (Oct 13, 2014)

4 Shows Je, I think. I assumed Fe but could be Te.

Bump for more.


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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

Living dead said:


> I think 1 and 3 seems Fi



Thanks, hun. 

Thanks, Greyhart. 

I wonder what Hoopla and angelcat would see in this. 

I reread it and tired to act like it wasn't mine. I personally saw introversion and Si. Some Fi and some Fe .


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## Greyhart (Oct 13, 2014)

I didn't see NP tbh. High Ne wibbly wobbliness, that's is.


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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

Greyhart said:


> I didn't see NP tbh. High Ne wibbly wobbliness, that's is.


I didn't either. Here at least. Ugh lol


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## Dangerose (Sep 30, 2014)

What about SP?


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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

Oswin said:


> What about SP?


I've thought of it. I just see the Si/Ne axis way more. I LIVE in my memories. And I am very cautious.


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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

@hoopla @angelcat @Amaterasu @shinynotshiny @fair phantom @alittlebear

Anything out of this?


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## Dangerose (Sep 30, 2014)

out of the silence or?


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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

Oswin said:


> out of the silence or?


I was asking if any of them got anything out of this new questionnaire that would help.


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## fair phantom (Mar 5, 2015)

I see more Si than Ne. I'm having more trouble with the judging axis. ISFJ would be my guess.


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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

@fair phantom , thank you. Funny, after reading it, I saw the same. Hmmm...


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## Deadly Decorum (Feb 23, 2014)

SugarPlum said:


> @hoopla @angelcat @Amaterasu @shinynotshiny @fair phantom @alittlebear
> 
> Anything out of this?


Does not compute.


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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

-_-


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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

@woogiefox @myst91 ?

I do feel Fi and Si are my strongest, with random Ne. However I think I am set in this constant Te mode irl. To me, I seem like an unhealthy INFP. How does this short 7Q post look to you guys?

Here is my second questionnaire. Please see through the 'energy' of the talking. It's nerves. I have either been pegged as Fe-dom because of my energy, or Ne-dom because of it. My natural state is very chilled.
http://personalitycafe.com/whats-my-personality-type/542250-some-help-please-gracias.html

And my first one... again, NERVES. I get hyper energy when nervous.
http://personalitycafe.com/whats-my...confusion-out-all-typists-i-summons-thee.html

I will put that same post that grabbed your attention in Ld's thread, over here. Thanks 

_"
It may just be introversion... who knows. I seriously can NOT pick between NFP and SFJ. UGH. @fair phantom suggested that maybe I am confusing my E4 for Fi. That very well could be. I am also a sx/sp. But WHAT in the world would a core 4w5 sx Fe user even look like?!

Also, I will post something that I took down on the other thread. I took it down because it paints a horrible picture of my character, but it is just a teeny MORSEL of me. It may just be learned behavior. My dad and I always fought for the Alpha position. I only battled with him because his behavior was down right WRONG! I needed to put him in his place. This behavior has trickled in to my adult behavior. Here it is...

"It may also be a learned behavior. I have always had this; "oh hell naw..hold my hoops!" Bad-girls club style, aggression. But I feel like if I don't it shows weakness. I can't be weak (for various reasons). I feel like I am contradicting myself lol. Okay let me break it down in bullet points.

- I am shy.
- I have resting bitch face syndrome
- I will respond in sweet nature if that is what I am getting first
- If I feel threatened, I puff up and the "tough bitch" suits up
- Even with the tough exterior, I am so so so soft on the inside
- My toughness is just a defense mechanism
- The minute they back down then I am good.
- I can be the biggest ball of quirk. Like dork-central.
- I am smiley and bubbly once engaged. (From afar and disengaged...resting bitch face ^ )
- My emotions run DEEP. I can't even put them adequately into words, even though I would love to. That is why I love music and things that I can relate to, so I can borrow their words... That prob didn't make sense.
- That saying that people over-use that goes, "I am the sweetest person you'll ever meet, until you piss me off". Well that is me to a T. I don't erupt lightly, but when I do, it's intense.
- I am also the most forgiving person ever. Ever. I never forget. But when I see genuine remorse, I can't help but forgive. I just have a hard time forgetting. I will dwell. I never heal, BUT I forgive! smile emoticon

So ummm, I just realized, I forgot what my point for typing this up was. Maybe to show, that my intensity to be honest, seems more Se or Te, rooted in Fi? I don't know.

A feisty/fiery, passionately-intense, loving and bubbly introvert (behavior wise), I am.

EDIT: To make a MORAL judgment outwardly, I need more facts. I need the whole picture. All pieces to fit. This reactive aggression I speak of, is more of an atmosphere thing. My aggression is more physical. And it is NOT an all the time thing lol. I just need others irl to know that I am not weak.

Why do I feel like I put my foot in my mouth and painted the wrong picture of myself again? Ugh.

I need to make a video somehow."_


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## Apple Pine (Nov 27, 2014)

Reading your last post gives an obvious overall impression of you being _dominant_ Fi user, rather than Fe...Also, this description relates to INFP I know, a lot. People see Si in you, you identify being an user of it, so that must be it, at least tertiary Si. We have only two possible: infp and istj. So, probably infp.


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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

Thank you for your help, @woogiefox . Are you referring to the comment above, or the OP with the 7 scenarios, that points to Fi-dom?


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## Apple Pine (Nov 27, 2014)

SugarPlum said:


> comment above


I didn't read anything else. 

That's totally Fi with lowerd order intuition:

- My emotions run DEEP. I can't even put them adequately into words, even though I would love to. That is why I love music and things that I can relate to, so I can borrow their words... *That prob didn't make sense.*

However, that could also be ISFP. I don't see you as SFJ at all, obvious Fi


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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

woogiefox said:


> I didn't read anything else.
> 
> That's totally Fi with lowerd order intuition:
> 
> ...


Energy. Mostly the way I type... I think.


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## myst91 (Sep 9, 2014)

@SugarPlum

OK my ex was FiSe, the one you remind me of and I'd honestly go with that guess for you too based on a few posts I've seen from you but I don't know for sure.. I haven't seen a whole lot.

What do you see as Ne for yourself?

My ex also had the inferior Te issue, btw, that thing about you being "set in this constant Te mode irl". He had a lot of trouble with that. I think he's doing better now


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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

myst91 said:


> @SugarPlum
> 
> OK my ex was FiSe, the one you remind me of and I'd honestly go with that guess for you too based on a few posts I've seen from you but I don't know for sure.. I haven't seen a whole lot.
> 
> ...


Hi there. Thanks so much for your reply. I feel really certain I will definitely be getting back to you, but right now I am on my phone and it crashes every minute. Literally. 

Until then, have you checked out the links I provided to cpl of my questionnaires (above)?

Talk to you soon.


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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

So, i forgot all about my thread lol. I'm not on the computer again, but here is the link from Living deads thread where i kind of get in this more...

http://personalitycafe.com/#/forumsite/20588/topics/582786?page=20


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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

In a nutshell, I branch. I branch when I talk, I branch when I type. My brain is sooo busy that it takes a minute for my mouth to catch up.

I am very indecisive. The more options the harder to narrow down.


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## Barakiel (May 20, 2014)

SugarPlum said:


> In a nutshell, I branch. I branch when I talk, I branch when I type. My brain is sooo busy that it takes a minute for my mouth to catch up.
> 
> I am very indecisive. The more options the harder to narrow down.


INFP, as I said. :wink:


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

Yep,INFP)

I always stay up for longer than I intend to :frustrating:


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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

Lol. Gracias mi amigos. ))


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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

And you guys are SURE on the Fi/Te?

Seems like this particular thread post was Fe/Ti'ish...

Like I said so many times before (because its so true), I think my general personality/energy/energy resembles Allie from the Notebook, a LOT.


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## Vermillion (Jan 22, 2012)

@_SugarPlum_ from what I've seen of you I think you're an Fe type. I'd tentatively say Fe dom and I'm not sure yet about the Ni and Si.

The reason I say that is because you're very richly expressive of your emotions and your reactions are always "loud" and forthright. That thing you said above about trying to contradict the energy of the situation: 



> So if the energy was really LIVELY and energetic, I end up being the more calm one that brings people back down to earth. But if the atmosphere is more DEAD, I will end up unleashing nervous/awkward (high) energy and they have to bring me back down. It is a very odd thing, really.


Manipulating (not in the bad way) the atmosphere of a situation like that is SO Fe. Don't know where everyone is getting Fi dom from, because an Fi dom would quite frankly not give a fuck about the "energy" of the situation or try to change it. 

I mean, really:



> So my demeanor would really just depend on the atmosphere and vibe of the group


I'm not even Fi dom, but my demeanor is never dependent on the atmosphere of the group. Seems like an Fe dom thing (and probably less true for Fe-auxes). I mean if I bring up Socionics here, Fi doms have Fe as their ignoring function -- they ignore Fe content, see it as redundant (even if they understand it well).

Similarly, as an Fe dom, you'd have Fi as your ignoring function. If you remember the argument we had, you were basically ignoring being moralized and told you were rude/disrespectful. You kept focusing somehow on the emotions in the atmosphere -- reacting accordingly to what you perceived as the tone of the conversation, first getting aggressive, then victimizing yourself. And you got upset that people didn't understand and follow suit.

Moreover, something I've noticed in a lot of self-typed and community-typed (and untyped) Fe doms is that they love "relating" to things. You know, stuff like "this is SO ME!" or "I totally get how this feels" -- they do it more than any other type. Because they have inferior Ti, they struggle with classifying their interests/putting things into a hierarchy, and it's far easier for them to talk about their situational ("dynamic", Fe is a dynamic function according to Socionics) reactions to things. It's not uncommon to see Fe doms expressing strong reactions towards many different things in quick succession. This is also why Fe doms are likely to fall into the classic trap of relating to too many parts of typology descriptions and being unable to decide what is most like them, or what descriptions are important in the hierarchy of how they relate to the individual, etc.


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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

Night Huntress said:


> @_SugarPlum_ from what I've seen of you I think you're an Fe type. I'd tentatively say Fe dom and I'm not sure yet about the Ni and Si.
> 
> The reason I say that is because you're very richly expressive of your emotions and your reactions are always "loud" and forthright. That thing you said above about trying to contradict the energy of the situation:
> 
> ...


Thank you for replying. I am glad you came actually. I have a few questions and responses to the input you gave. 

---------------------------

*The reason I say that is because you're very richly expressive of your emotions and your reactions are always "loud" and forthright. That thing you said above about trying to contradict the energy of the situation*

I would agree in me being expressive, as in the definition of the word when i relate or when something triggers something in me. There was a specific reason I reacted (btw my enneagram is the triple reactive 468) the way I did. Without getting into specifics, I felt it was my fault angelcat was being questioned. When I say I have been made to believe everything is my fault, as a child, that isn't even a glimpse of the reality. I was tormented with that shit. Anyway, that was a trigger for me. I felt at fault, and I needed to clear her name, so in my own warped thoughts it would clear mine. So yes, it was definitely about an emotional response, but this was also a deep rooted issue, not just me getting involved in a tiff for the hell of it. I did become the victim, because once again, I have been one my whole life (as in I was taught to be the victim). It took me back. You are very correct in saying it was from an emotional standpoint. With me, it had nothing really to do with what you were saying, so when I was questioned to back up what I was saying or whatever, it was not computing. I am not sure that Fi is immune to this behavior...?

Now on the thing about the environment, and how I counteract it. Honestly, it has nothing to do with me trying to manipulate my environment. Because if they get quiet when i do, or get loud when I do... it's is again knee-jerk reaction to do the opposite. It is some kind of weird thing, where I don't want to be doing something because everyone else is. For example, if I had a problem with someone and approached them, I do not want back up. I don't want even one of the people with me to assist in my approach, because then everyone is mad at that person, and chances are... I would end up backing up and saying "fuck it, nvm". I will still try again later when I can ditch the others, because for me to approach someone to begin with, they had to of really stepped on my toes or triggered something.

*If you remember the argument we had, you were basically ignoring being moralized and told you were rude/disrespectful.*

Wouldn't this point to Fi, since I didn't care about being moralized. You affected me, therefore I reacted. It didn't matter what was even going on in that forum. It was between you and I at the moment. 

*Moreover, something I've noticed in a lot of self-typed and community-typed (and untyped) Fe doms is that they love "relating" to things. You know, stuff like "this is SO ME!" or "I totally get how this feels" -- they do it more than any other type*

Not sure this is quite accurate. Ellicat (Fi-dom) has sad she does this a lot, and I have witnessed it. Then you have alittlebear (Fe-dom), that I hardly see do at all. If I ever do this, it is because for me to emotional connect with anyone (being a F-dom , E4 and sx instinct, that is what I look for), I have to actually have experienced it myself. I can give a flying f*** if I have never gone through what they have. If I go to a funeral, i am only crying if it struck a memory of someone I lost. Infact, I probably won't cry because I honestly don't really care. I mean I care because I am human, but if there is no direct connection to the person that died, then I won't cry. 

When I say "OMG me too!", this is me connecting with someone. I don't just say it, to be heard etc. I do it because, wow... we can connect through shared experience. I hear of someone going through a trial in their life, sure I feel bad , like "that sucks". I am human, but to be honest, unless I have actually been through it myself, ehhh, it is just hard to give authentic sympathy... Although, I will be very emotional if I picture myself literally in their shoes. I think about me being raped, or bullied or whatever, then I get very emotional. Here is the thing.. emotional in the sense of I am emotional. BUT it's never directed to them. What I am trying to convey here, is that... am I an emotional person? VERY. But am I concerned with others? Nope. That may make me a shitty person, but if it doesn't concern me, then I'll pray for them, and move on.


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## Vermillion (Jan 22, 2012)

@_SugarPlum_

a) Yes, your reactivity is well-explained by your tritype. However, I'm not referring to what caused your behavior -- I'm focusing on _how_ you expressed what you did, which is what cognitive type is about.

b) A lot of this sounds 6-ish. But if you were an Fi type 6, then you likely wouldn't express your reactivity by impulsively changing the "energy" of the environment. Yes, it's knee-jerk, but what you do with your knee-jerking is key. In the context of that, your response is 6-ish reactivity, but of an Fe kind.

c) About the moralization, if you were an Fi type, you would explain to me why the moral judgments I drew were not agreeable to you based on your own moral standards, but you talked instead about your mood and intentions. You ignored that form of thinking entirely in your speech -- you were more focused on how I was affecting your mood and how you felt stopped from going around responding to people and "relating" to them. Essentially, that's a very Fi vs Fe conflict -- the Fe type feels like the Fi type's system of moral consistency is infringing on their right to control and create their own emotional atmospheres, which are dynamic, not static like the Fi type's system of determining what they are attracted to and repelled by. So no, what you did wasn't an Fi response.

d) I don't place any weight onto what ElliCat did or what alittlebear did in comparison to you, because comparisons don't make for accurate typing. I'm not saying you're being facetious when you relate to other people. You do it because you want emotional connection, and that's fine, but HOW you go about this is important. If you reread the paragraph I wrote about "relating", you will find that it doesn't measure the degree of actual concern you need to feel for the person before you relate. It's fully possible to be an Fe dom and have delineations between what you care for and don't, because it's not necessary that you need to care for or feel concern for everyone to be Fe.

Once again, it's all about the _how_, not the _what_.


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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

@Night Huntress 

*you were more focused on how I was affecting your mood and how you felt stopped from going around responding to people and "relating" to them*

This, had NOTHING to do with it. I wasn't even online when it started. I came online, and like I said saw you questioning angelcat. I got upset because I felt guilty. This, I am sorry you have wrong. You are making your own assumptions for my motives. If i was concerned about how you were affecting my mood, I would have ignored it. That happens all the time in these threads. Ignore or get off... If however it is an _personal_ issue, affecting me, and i spoke directly to you...how in the world is the Fe?

I actually disrupted the harmony by going in and being over emotional. I just don't get Fe from this. 

- you piss me off (due to a personally issue that was triggered)
- I address you
- I am unable to properly express the real problem, so it came out in what i believe was sloppy inferior Te. Telling you... well now I don't even remember, because it wasn't the point. 
- all while inside i was brought back to my painful past (but why would I announce that to everyone?).
- My HOW plus my WHAT, had absolutely nothing to do with anyone one else. Not even angelcat. The problem was with you (because of me). And I handled it with you. 

I don't see it.

Also, _*I don't place any weight onto what ElliCat did or what alittlebear did in comparison to you, because comparisons don't make for accurate typing.*_

But... *I'm not even Fi dom, but my demeanor is never dependent on the atmosphere of the group. Seems like an Fe dom thing (and probably less true for Fe-auxes).*

So honestly, if there is something that you bring up that I agree with that is indicative of Fe, and only Fe... then I have no prob with being Fe. I just feel like when people tell this to me, they either say it is in my energy, or the way I type, or a vibe. These things are crap reasons. I want proof. Undeniable truth. Meaning, something that ONLY points to Fe , and I agree that I do. Actually, it has to outweigh all the Fi proof too. Because I think I have plenty of Fi proof. It is just so muddled at this point.

Anyway, if you have a couple questions, that would be great.Ii am planning on, well at least attempting to make a video Saturday. Maybe that can clear things up a bit. Thank you again, for your response.


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## Vermillion (Jan 22, 2012)

SugarPlum said:


> This, had NOTHING to do with it. I wasn't even online when it started. I came online, and like I said saw you questioning angelcat. I got upset because I felt guilty. This, I am sorry you have wrong. You are making your own assumptions for my motives. If i was concerned about how you were affecting my mood, I would have ignored it. That happens all the time in these threads. Ignore or get off... If however it is an _personal_ issue, affecting me, and i spoke directly to you...how in the world is the Fe?
> 
> I actually disrupted the harmony by going in and being over emotional. I just don't get Fe from this.
> 
> ...


Explain to me, using the definition of Te and how it operates in the inferior position, how anything you said was in any way indicative of that.

I think you're focusing too much on it being a "personal issue". That doesn't automatically make it an Fi thing. Fe types also take personal issue with situations. Fe types can definitely want to settle things by themselves.

However, what you did there was literally ask me "what the hell, I'm just responding to people as I see fit, why are you getting aggressive", which _is_ in line to what I said earlier.

Just because you aren't being agreeable with the mood of the group, it doesn't mean you don't recognize it and know how to influence it. You admitted yourself that you change the energy of the group based on your knee-jerk reactions. An Fi type having a knee-jerk reaction _wouldn't_ do this. It doesn't matter that you're being contrarian. What matters is that you recognize and understand and know how to use Fe information/thinking patterns in ways that an Fi type would never be able to or even choose to.



> So honestly, if there is something that you bring up that I agree with that is indicative of Fe, and only Fe... then I have no prob with being Fe. I just feel like when people tell this to me, they either say it is in my energy, or the way I type, or a vibe. These things are crap reasons. I want proof. Undeniable truth. Meaning, something that ONLY points to Fe , and I agree that I do. Actually, it has to outweigh all the Fi proof too. Because I think I have plenty of Fi proof. It is just so muddled at this point.
> 
> Anyway, you have a couple questions, that would be great. i am planning on, at least attempting to make a video Saturday. Maybe that ca clear things up a bit. Thank you again, for your response.


Ok. So I made a statement about myself, and that's incongruent with me saying I don't type by comparison. Did you notice that I immediately followed up that statement with reasoning about why Fi types engage in disregard for the atmosphere and how it affects their demeanor? Did you do the same? No.

There are several things I said that are _undeniably Fe_, and you haven't countered them. You also haven't presented your "Fi proof". All I see you doing here is constantly asserting I have misunderstood you, but not showing how, in relation to the functions. You pulled this whole misunderstanding spiel the last time we spoke as well, and I don't think I have patience to deal with it a second time. 

So please, if you have your proof, I'd like to see it. What in your opinion makes you so Fi, and how does that tally with the definitions of Fe and Fi? I want an answer that isn't just saying everything I wrote is "crap". If you can't give me that, then my conversation with you is over.


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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

@Night Huntress 

*However, what you did there was literally ask me "what the hell, I'm just responding to people as I see fit, why are you getting aggressive", which is in line to what I said earlier.*

Again, assumption. No I wasn't.


*Just because you aren't being agreeable with the mood of the group, it doesn't mean you don't recognize it and know how to influence it. You admitted yourself that you change the energy of the group based on your knee-jerk reactions.*

Again, I am not changing anyone elses mood/energy. I am changing MINE. Too much goin on around me, I need internal balance, therefore I calm myself. Not enough going on around me, I need internal balance, therefore I have more energy.


_*All I see you doing here is constantly asserting I have misunderstood you, but not showing how, in relation to the functions. You pulled this whole misunderstanding spiel the last time we spoke as well, and I don't think I have patience to deal with it a second time. *_

That isn't what i am doing. But you think I am, therefore I believe we have a misunderstanding. Patience? Not at this rate.

*So please, if you have your proof, I'd like to see it. What in your opinion makes you so Fi, and how does that tally with the definitions of Fe and Fi? I want an answer that isn't just saying everything I wrote is "crap". If you can't give me that, then my conversation with you is over.*

I think I have proof, but I don't have it ready. I don't feel like digging. And I don't feel like arguing something that isn't gonna get anywhere.

Also, I never said anything you said was crap. Basing it off of "energy/vibe" is. You didn't really do that. You gave me plausible facts. I appreciate that, however, I don't agree with some of them. But since I really don't feel like hunting down 'proof', nor explaining... I guess that 'concludes-this-broadcast-day'.

I truly do appreciate the time you took. You extended help, I accept it. I will take it into consideration. So Thank you. And if I ever get to that proof, maybe i will holler. Have a blessed night.


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

Night Huntress said:


> However, what you did there was literally ask me "what the hell, I'm just responding to people as I see fit, why are you getting aggressive", which is in line to what I said earlier.


Not true. 



> Just because you aren't being agreeable with the mood of the group, it doesn't mean you don't recognize it and know how to influence it. You admitted yourself that you change the energy of the group based on your knee-jerk reactions.


I didn't take it as Fe mood changing,it's more like "I'm gonna do what I have to do to make myself feel ok" without much thought about other people's energy.
As a Fe dom I do it more consciously,I naturally think about the people,I feel proud of my ability to change the energy and I have a bit of that "I did it for you" reasoning even in moments when it was for me more than for others,but I see it as something I do because of other people,"I did it because I felt uncomfortable" is not a valid argument for me(in most cases at least)
I don't see that here at all


Anyway,just confirming there is a misunderstanding going on,similar to the one in your old thread,Plum


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## Apple Pine (Nov 27, 2014)

*So if the energy was really LIVELY and energetic, I end up being the more calm one that brings people back down to earth. But if the atmosphere is more DEAD, I will end up unleashing nervous/awkward (high) energy and they have to bring me back down. It is a very odd thing, really.

Manipulating (not in the bad way) the atmosphere of a situation like that is SO Fe. Don't know where everyone is getting Fi dom from, because an Fi dom would quite frankly not give a fuck about the "energy" of the situation or try to change it. *

Yes, seems like Fe, but think of why does she do that? As you said, it's not WHAT, but WHY. That's opposite of adjusting to groups's pace, therefore Fi. She wants others to adjust to her energy.

I understand where people getting Fe vibe from her, but she's not Fe.

*So my demeanor would really just depend on the atmosphere and vibe of the group*
That's a misunderstanding, purely from this - definitely Fe. Try to combine it with her previous statement.


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## Vermillion (Jan 22, 2012)

@Living dead @woogiefox

Fe can attempt to manipulate the atmosphere however it sees fit. It doesn't always need to adjust to the group's pace. Before you guys get hung up on me misunderstanding, I suggest you read the other things I wrote about Fi vs Fe. Fi doms do not go around expecting atmospheres to be consistent with their energy/mood.

Therefore, if you're going to counter my points a) do so in context and b) offer consistent, wholesome definitions of the functions in question. I think there are definitely some misconceptions here about how Fi and Fe manifest.


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

Understood.

All I'm saying is there was no manipulation of atmosphere


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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

Living dead said:


> Understood.
> 
> All I'm saying is there was no manipulation of atmosphere


Si. Manipulation of my self. And not to fit IN to the atmosphere. But to fit in to what makes me more at ease. 

Oh well. :/


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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

*Here is a comment I put on my other thread. I do NOT usually share this much info with anybody, like ever. But when it comes to typing me correctly, then I am more lenient. Please look at the context, and read in entirely... Fe? Fi?*

_"Allie from the Notebook! Her bubbly nature, quirky sense of humor, and her constant pull between wanting to be free and authentic, to just giving in and settling for second best. Because its easier. I can relate SO much to her. Here is the link to angelcat 's typing of her on her blog. She went from ESFJ to INFP for her. I can most def understand how she could really come off as both. 

http://funkymbtifiction.tumblr.com/post/116483507826/the-notebook-allie-hamilton-infp

... Her and Jasmine, bec of her rebellious stubbornness. I will not marry who you tell me to. I will marry who I want! No questions, or debating about it. It is just what is. I married my high school sweetheart when EVERYONE around me told me I was making a mistake. Dont do it. Think this through. Blah blah blah. THEN, when I got pregnant at 17, EVERYONE once again, told me to abort it, give it up! Blah blah blah. 

I was supposed to be in a Rapid Learning School, bec I had the highest SATs in my state pretty much all through elementary. In the 3rd grade, I had a 99% accuracy, and they wanted me to skip a grade like every year. I was SUPPOSED to be in the "gifted programs" bec I kept refusing to skip a grade, or go to a gifted school. No matter how many times I ignored those G.A.T.E program letters , and never committed to them, they still considered me as a part of them. I go all those special treatments. I hated it. The smarts came naturally,although I know, you can't see it through my writing lol. I already emphasized how I dont even think when I am typing in conversation.I just type. i don't even pay attention to grammatical errors really. I could turn on Super-Grammar-Nazi-Girl in a flash! Anyway, so just bec it all came naturally to me, I just didn't find being "Super-Genius" appealing. My family, and I mean my WHOLE family was always soooo proud and expected me to take my potential to higher levels. Well, I didn't want to. So I didn't. Every time a new invitation was given, it was politely declined. I wanted my life the way I wanted it and that is all there is to it. My ISFJ sister has always been the opposite. The exact opposite. We were just talking about this actually. She always wanted to make my family proud. If they weren't proud, then what would be the point. She worked her ASS off to be at the top of her classes. if I had a dollar every time I heard "Misty works so hard Jackie, just to have what you have naturally! Yet you throw it all away. Why are you so stubborn? Think about your future! Think about your success! blah blah blah".... and I am over here like, "EXACTLY! MISTY wants this! and shit, she EARNED IT! Give her the damn praise she deserves!! Leave me alone. This is my life!". I got pregnant at 17 and married at 18, even though EVERYONE said NOOOOOOO! Well, guess what, suck it! I will do what I want. What I want, is to get married and start my own life without yall smothering me. Make my own choices. My sister? pffft! She is (no joke) a 21 year old virgin, and senior at a Christian university, doing mission trips and saving herself for marriage. She "courted" her now fiance, and they have been "courting " for 3 years. They dont even kiss! Yes, Duggar style! ... uhhhh, I lost my V-card at 14, bec well, I wanted to. Luckily, my husband was my next BF, so I wasn't tempted to sleep around. Just 2 for me, and I married the 2nd. Thank Jesus. ANYWAY, I am PROUD of her! I ADMIRE her! We are best friends and we always talk how extremely different we are. She does not like expectations either, just like me. The difference is, SHE will adhere to them, and I won't. Even the weddings. Well, when my whole clan of family finally got it through their head, that there is no telling me what to do, bec I will do what I want anyway (I have been called strong willed since a kiddo), then the Family started asking about the wedding plans. Well I have always thought about different options for my wedding. My main thing has always been about flowers. I NEED flowers around me at all times, so the flowers were always gonna be my big splurge and the photography. And I know I wanted it intimate. I didnt ever want that big traditional thing. My vows to my husband are not about anyone. Honestly I would have loved to eloped. Where it could just be between me, him, and God. BUUUUT everyone wanted the big wedding. To make a family event out of it. I was the first grandchild to be both pregnant and getting married. They are a BIG catholic family too. Anyway, sooo... guess what ended up happening? A PRIVATE ceremony with my brothers and sisters, parents and grandparents. A total of 12 ppl, under an oak tree in jeans and a flowy blouse. No bridal party. No reception. No fuss. My family was PISSED. BUT, it was what I wanted. My dad didnt even attend, bec he couldn't take all the "rebellion and stubbornness" I gave. that is the thing. I wasn't trying to rebel, bec I love nothing more than a tight-knit family. But, just bec they want dictate my life, and I dont let them. They see it as a personal attack. It's not. I just know that I do what I want. Point. Blank. Period. I still would love to celebrate the holidays with them and I love them all so passionately. BUT there is another thing. There are a couple bad apples that have weaseled their way into the family (by marriage). So I no longer attend the bigggg hugggge family traditions. I have almost become shunned bec I refuse to be present in a room that hold a cpl people that are so morally corrupt. My ISFJ Grandma, sister and ESFJ aunt, ALL say, "lets all just put our differences aside for one night. This is about family". I am like "Nope. Sorry. I love you all with all my heart, but if I attend, that says I support their actions, and I don't. So not going. Point. Blank. Period." I can't just go. To make others feel better. It will be all a facade. Fake. I don't do fake. Somebody has crossed the line with MY moral system. I want nothing to do with them. The End..... Now my sister, will still attend, even though she agrees and feels her morals have been violated as well. But she goes, to please others. To suck it up and make a memorable night. But will go back to loathing these people after the night is through. I refuse. Until the problem is FIXED , not swept under the rug, I am not budging.... Also, my sister is planning her wedding and she is so busy trying to make sure everyone is accommodated, she is losing sight of what is supposed to be about her, her fiance and god. It is not about the others. She has changed the location 3xs, the time, twice, the date twice, the bridal party 3xs and so on... why? to make sure everyone is happy. Me? I see this as a waste of time. It is impossible to make everyone happy. It cant be done. She is so stressed, and I am like..uhhh, just elope!!! Go to Hawaii, just the 2 of yuz. Go on the beach, smell the ocean, hear the waves clash, feel the presence of God His canvas all around you and look DEEP into your mans eyes. Say those vows like you mean it! Screw everybodies demands. Just marry your man. Its about the marriage, not about the wedding. She starts to become tempted by it... them, nope. she just can't. Everyone would be hurt etc. 

Another example ... my sister and I were just talking on the phone last night. She called me bec she was going to be going out to dinner with some friends for a celebration "Finals are over, woo hoo!". Anyway, SHE has the reputation of being really judgmental. Which, she kind of is. But I see where she is coming from, due to her and I having the same core values. But there is a difference between her and how on how they are dealt with. she is an introvert, so she doesn't shout her judgments from the roof top, but with those she is closer to, she will share. And it comes of as self-righteous almost, to others. They feel condemned by her. She doesn't mean for that, but yeah. So anyway, she was like "hey, so i am goin out with ___ and __ and ___ tonight, and they are saying they are gonna get some 'drinks' too. What do I do? I still wanna go, but I dont want them to think I am judging them like they always do. i just dont know how to act when they do things like that." .... we talked for awhile, and I finally got through to her that it is fine to stand in your truth, and not waver, but you cant expect others to see it your way. That is between them and God. Don't be preachy with them. They know your stance on it and that is good enough. They know your feelings on drinking, so no explanation necessary. let them know that it is a conviction YOU have for YOU from God, and so YOU have to listen to it. If they want to debate it to justify heir views, then they are the ones opening that can of worms. But dont go to them as a preacher. If they bring their opposing side over into your backyard and take a s***, then yeah, you gently correct them, and send them on their way. Only correct when they come in your backyard, by saying "IT's fine to drink and party! You have it all wrong!". When they do this, they are taking YOUR beliefs and S***ting on the. You then correct them, by saying "well that is the way you see it. I see it differently. I am not telling you what you need to believe, but please dont tell me what I need to believe either.". I had to explain to her that even though she may view HER views as the one and only objective truth, so do Muslims! So would you want a Muslim coming and telling you that you HAVE to believe in Allah? NO! because you believe the opposite. You are opposed to their beliefs, as they are opposed to your. If you dont want to be controlled, you cant control others. She finally understood. I was like, yeah, so as much as I want to keep America as a Christian Nation and it hurts me to see it change, at the same time I don't want to see it become a Mormon or Islam nation (no offense, just indifference). So If I don't want their religions pushed on me as law, I have to respect not pushing mine on them as law either. It is a sad truth for me. Anyway... she understood and it was another good example of our differences. I have always been the type that everyone knew where I stood..I would stand in my truth and convictions... but I would still hang out with the bad crowd or whatever. They just knew, I couldn't be coerced. They knew I wasn't judging them, but I still didn't agree. They knew not to tell me I was wrong for NOT getting high after school, just like I didnt push my beliefs that getting high after school wasnt the smart thing to do. They do their thing, I do mine. 

It was mentioned that jumping in to save the day was Fe...but couldn't it be Fi backed Te or even Se? Me just taking action was bec I wasn't going to sit and ponder what I should do. All I knew, was that it needed to end. NOW. He was being hurt and humiliated. I went AGAINST the crowd who thought it was okay. Not one person cared, or if they did, they chose to just stand and watch. 

I dont express emotions in words as much as I do in actions. When I am sad, I will space out and tears will flood my face, but I don't want to talk about it. I cant stop the tears and the pain, but I have trouble articulating WHY I am hurt , so I just say nothing. I don't say I love yous, but I put those people first. I always have their back and they know where my loyalty lies. When i am pissed, I would rather just punch you, but that will land me in jail, so I am more forced to explain my anger. i hate having anger inside, so that is why i release it. but I would still just rather punch you. I will also give big squeals of joy or excitement when I am happy, but I still don't really express it verbally. I squeal and clap and get excited and say "OMG! so exciting!!" but that is it. I actually will start to ask THEM if and how and why they are excited. So, am I facially expressive? YES!... Am I dramatic? YES!... Am I emotional? YES!... Buuuuut am I filled with emotional words? YES, but the hardly ever come out! Even when I do sit down to talk with my husband on a serious matter. Its very logical. We talk about where we should move, we discuss it in a logical way. When I talk about something that IS an emotional thing for me, it usually still comes out in a logical or even aggressive way. I hate crying in front of anyone, and sometimes I CAN'T keep my tears back. I will sit there so stoic, and motion less. I won't even blink, and the tears STILL flood my face. If people notice this, I usually say I am fine and smile. I don't WANT to have to talk about the emotions... UNLESS, in occasion, I release them to my Mom. I do have lots of opinions about hings, and I do make judgments fairly quickly... But I will usually keep those to myself. Not because I am trying to keep peace/harmony, but because I don't want to be misunderstood. But when I am talking to my trusted few, I will share them. 

Now IF you all can honestly STILL see Fe, and even Fe-dom still.... Then i think I will have no choice BUT to accept it, bec I would have MAJORLY misjudged Fe. I love Fe! I want to be Fe. I just dont think I am convinced I do. so please, tell me... is this stuff STILL Fe?"_

PS. Can all my hyperbole, emojis and exclamatory talk be high Ne?


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

Well,you already know what I think


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## Apple Pine (Nov 27, 2014)

Same, still IxFP


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

1: First of all, not a single one of you have no idea what an INFP is like. NOT ONE OF YOU. 
2: Not one of you with few exceptions seem to know and understand the differences between Fe and Fi. You should listen to Night Huntress. She knows and you don't. 
3: There's no way SugarPlum is an INFP because 1). If you knew 1), you'd know why 3). 
4: This is one of a crappy test with good intentions but utterly fails at what it seeks to accomplish. 



SugarPlum said:


> SCENARIO 1
> 
> FOCUS ON YOUR FEELING PROCESS HERE
> 
> ...


Fe. Extroverted because focused on feelings *outside of herself* as in, how he feels. She doesn't even say, "I feel sad". No, she says, "It would break my heart" to imply sadness. She then immediately cognitively focuses her attention on *him*, to remind *him* about her. She then continues to make *expressions*, to show him what she feels. She then moves on to say that she doesn't want him to feel stressed. Does she talk about how she _is_ feeling here? No, not a single time. No, "I feel this way". Do you know what an Fi dom would say in this situation? They would talk about _their_ feelings and how the environment makes *them* feel. Not what the guy is feeling and trying to reassure his feelings. That's Fe because again, it's extroverted looking outside of the self and looking at the object world. 



> - In this scenario what would you honestly say the primary focus of your feelings would be?
> 
> I just feel like I would want so desperately to be by his side, and for him to know I am there to love him 'til the very end. But I wouldn't want to push myself on him either. If he didn't want me to know, there is a reason. I need to respect that reason, but it would KILL me. I would probably loose sleep over it. Just knowing I wouldn't be able to be there in his last days. I would feel so incomplete. I would definitely withdraw. I would dwell. Replay everything over in my head.


She describes her inner state a little more here towards the end, but she doesn't actually go into the depth of feeling. An Fi dom would not just be satisfied with "I would feel so incomplete". Incomplete how? I'd feel so incomplete because XYZ. Why? Because Fi comes with Te and Te looks at logical causes that has resulted or results in something. She's not doing that. She's saying I feel so incomplete, it makes me feel so sad and hollow and empty and what other things Fi types would say in this situation. 



> SCENARIO 2
> 
> FOCUS ON YOUR FEELING PROCESS HERE
> 
> ...


Useless answer, function wise. Doesn't say anything really. 



> - What sort of things in this scenario stand out to you as far as having a strong influence on your decision making and why?
> 
> Well me being at the top, and her at the bottom, I would feel bad and help (the best I could), but I would never ever risk my rank for hers.


Again doesn't say anything.


> - Describe the flow of your decision making process.
> 
> First, I would think back to whether or not she is notorious for this behavior, or if the class is truly a struggle for her. If she is genuinely struggling, I would have sympathy and that is when i would offer my assistance. If she is known for this behavior and doesn't ever apply herself, I would be thinking of a way out of this. I would still offer my assistance in helping her study, but not really 'feelin' it. If she was known for this behavior, but is desperate, I may use this opportunity to ask her some questions about the reasons behind her concerns. Like; "so, what happened? Why do you feel like you are struggling in this class? What about it is hard?" etc. Basically so while I am helping her with the studying, she may start to re-evaluate her decisions and priorities. I wouldn't want to moralize her, but moreso provoke a revelation her own terms.


Je all the way, looking at results in the external. The hypothetical questions strike me as Fe, focusing again on the feelings of the other person. Fi types would moralize more.


> SCENARIO 3
> 
> FOCUS ON YOUR LOGIC AND THINKING PROCESS HERE
> 
> ...


So you suck at Te, especially NiTe. Both of these are very Te questions tbh, which is why this test isn't good.


> SCENARIO 4
> 
> FOCUS ON YOUR LOGIC AND THINKING PROCESS HERE
> 
> ...


Fe, especially last paragraph. That's Fe in a nutshell.


> - Describe what major influences drive this behavior.
> 
> Honestly, I tend to counteract others behavior. So if the energy was really LIVELY and energetic, I end up being the more calm one that brings people back down to earth. But if the atmosphere is more DEAD, I will end up unleashing nervous/awkward (high) energy and they have to bring me back down. It is a very odd thing, really.


More Fe, looking at feelings outside of the self. 



> SCENARIO 5
> 
> FOCUS ON THE SOURCES YOU DRAW NON-PHYSICAL ENERGY FROM HERE
> 
> ...


Not related to type.


> - What sort of things do you feel you draw non-physical energy from doing?
> 
> Movies. I get so lost in them. Music. Art. Anything that I can lose myself in and disengage from reality.


Not related to type.


> SCENARIO 6
> 
> FOCUS ON THINKING VS FEELING HERE
> 
> ...


Not related to type.


> - Was it difficult or easy to pick only 3 and why?
> 
> I kinda just answered that above. Oops.


Not related to type.


> - Prioritize the aspects of your career choices that influenced your decision, what things mattered most to you, where do you imagine finding the most fulfillment and why?
> 
> Anything that I am able to express my inner emotions. Or help people process theirs.


Not related to type though it's funny she writes she wants to express her inner emotions. Thus far she's made zero inference to having "inner" emotions, as she's been explicitly focusing on the feelings outside of herself.


> SCENARIO 7
> 
> Click on the image below and pay close attention to the things that jump out to you, objects, thoughts, feelings, impressions, ideas etc. What do you see?
> 
> ...


Feeling, but more so Fe, attaching feeling to the environment. Possibly Si as well, the way she describes the sensation.


> - Why do you think/feel you focused on those things?
> 
> Not sure. I just felt very emerged into the image, as if I am actually there.kind of like those paintings you see on movies, like the Night at the Museum, where the image is a real place and alive. Well I was able to feel bodily sensations looking at it.


Yes, so Si.


> - Describe the strength with which this photo did or did not appeal to you and why?
> 
> It appealed to me a lot actually. I was able to get lost, and then.. ehh... reality was back. Boo.


Not type related. 



Oswin said:


> Your answer to the first question was very Fi imo.
> I think INFP.


Nothing Fi about her answers. 



Barakiel said:


> I concur with @<span class="highlight"><i><a href="http://personalitycafe.com/member.php?u=164034" target="_blank">Oswin</a></i></span>, answer 1 seems Fi-Ne, as does 3 and 4. INFP is my guess. :happy:


See my analysis. Nothing Fi about her answers. Nothing Ne either. The little perception she showed, was all sensory. 



Living dead said:


> I think 1 and 3 seems Fi


Nope. Fe all the way. 



SugarPlum said:


> @<span class="highlight"><i><a href="http://personalitycafe.com/member.php?u=189162" target="_blank">woogiefox</a></i></span> @<span class="highlight"><i><a href="http://personalitycafe.com/member.php?u=156226" target="_blank">myst91</a></i></span> ?
> 
> I do feel Fi and Si are my strongest, with random Ne. However I think I am set in this constant Te mode irl. To me, I seem like an unhealthy INFP. How does this short 7Q post look to you guys?


I don't see any inferences of you using Ne. I also don't see any inferences of Te at all. You don't seem like an unhealthy IxFP. Do you know what an unhealthy IxFP with inferior Te mode is like? Danaerys from GoT, like this:






That's inferior Te tyranny. She suddenly becomes rigid and inflexible and expects people to simply adhere to her values. She's not considering at any moment how she's making other people feel. 



> Here is my second questionnaire. Please see through the 'energy' of the talking. It's nerves. I have either been pegged as Fe-dom because of my energy, or Ne-dom because of it. My natural state is very chilled.
> http://personalitycafe.com/whats-my-personality-type/542250-some-help-please-gracias.html


Not gonna type you on your nerves, but how you _think_, where your attention and your natural focus goes and how you conceptualize reality. That's Fe.


> And my first one... again, NERVES. I get hyper energy when nervous.
> http://personalitycafe.com/whats-my...confusion-out-all-typists-i-summons-thee.html
> 
> I will put that same post that grabbed your attention in Ld's thread, over here. Thanks
> ...


_

EVERY Fe dom I've come across that also is a 4 and the combination isn't nearly as uncommon as people think it is, mistype as INFP. EVERYONE. People think the need for authenticity of type 4 is the same as Fi. No, it's not. Fi is a very specific and unique reasoning process of making subjective value judgements that you yourself find to be true to your person. Not subjective in the sense that I now decide this to be of importance; it is far more unconscious than that. Being oriented by the subjective factor in Jungian typology is not a consciously decided or felt process. It occurs in our unconsciousness.



Also, I will post something that I took down on the other thread. I took it down because it paints a horrible picture of my character, but it is just a teeny MORSEL of me. It may just be learned behavior. My dad and I always fought for the Alpha position. I only battled with him because his behavior was down right WRONG! I needed to put him in his place. This behavior has trickled in to my adult behavior. Here it is...

Click to expand...

Not type related. 




"It may also be a learned behavior. I have always had this; "oh hell naw..hold my hoops!" Bad-girls club style, aggression. But I feel like if I don't it shows weakness. I can't be weak (for various reasons). I feel like I am contradicting myself lol. Okay let me break it down in bullet points.

- I am shy.
- I have resting bitch face syndrome
- I will respond in sweet nature if that is what I am getting first
- If I feel threatened, I puff up and the "tough bitch" suits up
- Even with the tough exterior, I am so so so soft on the inside
- My toughness is just a defense mechanism
- The minute they back down then I am good.
- I can be the biggest ball of quirk. Like dork-central.
- I am smiley and bubbly once engaged. (From afar and disengaged...resting bitch face ^ )
- My emotions run DEEP. *I can't even put them adequately into words, even though I would love to. That is why I love music and things that I can relate to, so I can borrow their words... That prob didn't make sense.*
- That saying that people over-use that goes, "I am the sweetest person you'll ever meet, until you piss me off". Well that is me to a T. I don't erupt lightly, but when I do, it's intense.
- I am also the most forgiving person ever. Ever. I never forget. But when I see genuine remorse, I can't help but forgive. I just have a hard time forgetting. I will dwell. I never heal, BUT I forgive! smile emoticon

So ummm, I just realized, I forgot what my point for typing this up was. Maybe to show, that my intensity to be honest, seems more Se or Te, rooted in Fi? I don't know.

Click to expand...

Most stuff on this list is just type 6 stuff. The bolded stuff is Fe. 



A feisty/fiery, passionately-intense, loving and bubbly introvert (behavior wise), I am.

Click to expand...

Fi doms don't talk this way, but Fe doms do. They don't attribute feeling traits externally because feelings and traits are intrinsic. They won't say "I am passionately-intense", but they will tell how they feel intense on the inside. What inner feeling state intensity causes within them. Big difference. 




EDIT: To make a MORAL judgment outwardly, I need more facts. I need the whole picture. All pieces to fit. This reactive aggression I speak of, is more of an atmosphere thing. My aggression is more physical. And it is NOT an all the time thing lol. I just need others irl to know that I am not weak.

Click to expand...

Again the mentioning of atmosphere. Again Fi doms don't give a fuck for atmosphere. Want an example of Fi reactivity? Go look at the GoT video again.



Why do I feel like I put my foot in my mouth and painted the wrong picture of myself again? Ugh.

I need to make a video somehow."

Click to expand...

_Not type related comment.



woogiefox said:


> Reading your last post gives an obvious overall impression of you being _dominant_ Fi user, rather than Fe...Also, this description relates to INFP I know, a lot. People see Si in you, you identify being an user of it, so that must be it, at least tertiary Si. We have only two possible: infp and istj. So, probably infp.


Nope, again. 



woogiefox said:


> I didn't read anything else.
> 
> That's totally Fi with lowerd order intuition:
> 
> ...


Anyone can have deep emotions. When Jung calls that still waters run deep in the Fi type, he's referring to how Fi is referencing to emotions as within themselves, their own inner feeling states that are not externally reflected on the outside. What may seem like a neutral face externally, can belie a surprising depth of emotion internally. Fe doms are the very opposite - they show exactly what they feel. Here's a great example of Fi towards the end:






That scene with the one tear running down the man's face when the music changes to minor is a great example of Fi subtlety. We know he's sad because of the tear, but a lot of the sadness and the depth of the felt sadness is _implied_. That's what is meant by Fi depth. Feelings are implied. They don't always show what they feel and what they show never reflects the true depth and range of what they do feel. Fe doms are different. They show all that they feel which is why socionics sometimes refers to Fe as "passion". Fe is much more energetic in this way. 



Living dead said:


> Yep,INFP)
> 
> I always stay up for longer than I intend to :frustrating:


Again, for the umpteenth time no. 



SugarPlum said:


> Thank you for replying. I am glad you came actually. I have a few questions and responses to the input you gave.
> 
> ---------------------------
> 
> ...


She wasn't talking about your reactivity, again. 



> Now on the thing about the environment, and how I counteract it. Honestly, it has nothing to do with me trying to manipulate my environment. Because if they get quiet when i do, or get loud when I do... it's is again knee-jerk reaction to do the opposite. It is some kind of weird thing, where I don't want to be doing something because everyone else is. For example, if I had a problem with someone and approached them, I do not want back up. I don't want even one of the people with me to assist in my approach, because then everyone is mad at that person, and chances are... I would end up backing up and saying "fuck it, nvm". I will still try again later when I can ditch the others, because for me to approach someone to begin with, they had to of really stepped on my toes or triggered something.


But yet you are captured by it, you are reacting to it. You cannot not react to it. For the second time, Fi doms genuinely and honestly don't give a fuck to react or not react to the environment. The only time they do that is when someone does something they think goes against their morals. Like Dany and getting up on slavery in Game of Thrones. 


> *If you remember the argument we had, you were basically ignoring being moralized and told you were rude/disrespectful.*
> 
> Wouldn't this point to Fi, since I didn't care about being moralized. You affected me, therefore I reacted. It didn't matter what was even going on in that forum. It was between you and I at the moment.


No. Reactivity is in itself not related to Fi.


> *Moreover, something I've noticed in a lot of self-typed and community-typed (and untyped) Fe doms is that they love "relating" to things. You know, stuff like "this is SO ME!" or "I totally get how this feels" -- they do it more than any other type*
> 
> Not sure this is quite accurate. Ellicat (Fi-dom) has sad she does this a lot, and I have witnessed it. Then you have alittlebear (Fe-dom), that I hardly see do at all. If I ever do this, it is because for me to emotional connect with anyone (being a F-dom , E4 and sx instinct, that is what I look for), I have to actually have experienced it myself. I can give a flying f*** if I have never gone through what they have. If I go to a funeral, i am only crying if it struck a memory of someone I lost. Infact, I probably won't cry because I honestly don't really care. I mean I care because I am human, but if there is no direct connection to the person that died, then I won't cry.
> 
> When I say "OMG me too!", this is me connecting with someone. I don't just say it, to be heard etc. I do it because, wow... we can connect through shared experience. I hear of someone going through a trial in their life, sure I feel bad , like "that sucks". I am human, but to be honest, unless I have actually been through it myself, ehhh, it is just hard to give authentic sympathy... Although, I will be very emotional if I picture myself literally in their shoes. I think about me being raped, or bullied or whatever, then I get very emotional. Here is the thing.. emotional in the sense of I am emotional. BUT it's never directed to them. What I am trying to convey here, is that... am I an emotional person? VERY. But am I concerned with others? Nope. That may make me a shitty person, but if it doesn't concern me, then I'll pray for them, and move on.


I hope you do realize the irony of the situation? She mentions that Fe doms have a tendency to relate and do you know the first thing you do? You bring up people like elliscat that got nothing to do with this conversation and how you relate to them, or how they for the matter, relate, and this somehow discredits her argument. No, it actually proves her argument true - you just did exactly what she said you claimed you don't. 



SugarPlum said:


> @<span class="highlight"><i><a href="http://personalitycafe.com/member.php?u=32155" target="_blank">Night Huntress</a></i></span>
> 
> *you were more focused on how I was affecting your mood and how you felt stopped from going around responding to people and "relating" to them*
> 
> This, had NOTHING to do with it. I wasn't even online when it started. I came online, and like I said saw you questioning angelcat. I got upset because I felt guilty. This, I am sorry you have wrong. You are making your own assumptions for my motives. If i was concerned about how you were affecting my mood, I would have ignored it. That happens all the time in these threads. Ignore or get off... If however it is an _personal_ issue, affecting me, and i spoke directly to you...how in the world is the Fe?


It's about the _structure_ of your argument. Not _that_ you argued. No one is questioning your motives or why you reacted. It's _how_ you reacted. She's not wrong - you are twisting the argument and being inconsistent. She's not talking about your emotional reaction to the situation and the fact that you *cannot *differentiate yourself away from your emotional reaction towards the situation and your person just shows how you are a cognitive extrovert because extroverts orient themselves to the object world which means that they their focus and logos of attention will always be on the environment outside of themselves and will identify with that. Such as over-identifying with one's emotional reaction to an external event. That's Fe. 



> I actually disrupted the harmony by going in and being over emotional. I just don't get Fe from this.


Again, you are actually relating yourself to the environment. You cannot make an argument or a judgement where the environment does not play any factor whatsoever in your reasoning process and decision-making. 



> - you piss me off (due to a personally issue that was triggered)
> - I address you
> - I am unable to properly express the real problem, so it came out in what i believe was sloppy inferior Te. Telling you... well now I don't even remember, because it wasn't the point.
> - all while inside i was brought back to my painful past (but why would I announce that to everyone?).
> ...


Again, stop focus on the external. This isn't about the external situation.


> But... *I'm not even Fi dom, but my demeanor is never dependent on the atmosphere of the group. Seems like an Fe dom thing (and probably less true for Fe-auxes).*
> 
> So honestly, if there is something that you bring up that I agree with that is indicative of Fe, and only Fe... then I have no prob with being Fe. I just feel like when people tell this to me, they either say it is in my energy, or the way I type, or a vibe. These things are crap reasons. I want proof. Undeniable truth. Meaning, something that ONLY points to Fe , and I agree that I do. Actually, it has to outweigh all the Fi proof too. Because I think I have plenty of Fi proof. It is just so muddled at this point.


You want truth? You should start look at yourself and your own behavior. You have no Fi proof whatsoever. Show it. 



SugarPlum said:


> @<span class="highlight"><i><a href="http://personalitycafe.com/member.php?u=32155" target="_blank">Night Huntress</a></i></span>
> 
> *However, what you did there was literally ask me "what the hell, I'm just responding to people as I see fit, why are you getting aggressive", which is in line to what I said earlier.*
> 
> ...


So you are still acting _in relation_ to the mood which means that you also pay attention to and recognize the importance of it. 



> Too much goin on around me, I need internal balance, therefore I calm myself. Not enough going on around me, I need internal balance, therefore I have more energy.


So again, the environment affects your own feeling states, your feelings are dependent on the external world and feelings are situated outside of the self. Not Fi but Fe.


> _*All I see you doing here is constantly asserting I have misunderstood you, but not showing how, in relation to the functions. You pulled this whole misunderstanding spiel the last time we spoke as well, and I don't think I have patience to deal with it a second time. *_
> 
> That isn't what i am doing. But you think I am, therefore I believe we have a misunderstanding. Patience? Not at this rate.


Yes, you are, by being unable to look outside of the external feeling context of the situation and over-identifying with it and seeing an attack on that as an attack on you as a person. It's not.


> *So please, if you have your proof, I'd like to see it. What in your opinion makes you so Fi, and how does that tally with the definitions of Fe and Fi? I want an answer that isn't just saying everything I wrote is "crap". If you can't give me that, then my conversation with you is over.*
> 
> I think I have proof, but I don't have it ready. I don't feel like digging. And I don't feel like arguing something that isn't gonna get anywhere.


So it amounts to empty threats. Don't say you have proof when you got none.


> Also, I never said anything you said was crap. Basing it off of "energy/vibe" is. You didn't really do that. You gave me plausible facts. I appreciate that, however, I don't agree with some of them. But since I really don't feel like hunting down 'proof', nor explaining... I guess that 'concludes-this-broadcast-day'.


Again, you are being evasive. If you want to create a counter-argument that actually supports your claim of being Fi, you need to also provide a logically coherent case and argument including evidence that supports your case. Failure to do that isn't an argument nor is it convincing anyone and is just an attempt to look bigger than you are just like an old dog may bark though he got no teeth. 



Living dead said:


> Not true.
> 
> 
> I didn't take it as Fe mood changing,


Yes, Fe is about controlling moods:



> Perceives information about processes taking place in objects — first of all, emotional processes that are taking place in people, their excitation or subduedness, and *their moods*. This perceptual element implies the ability to know what excites people, and what suppresses them. *It defines a person's ability or inability to control his emotional state, and also the emotional states of other people.*
> When this element is in the leading position, the individual has the innate ability to induce or convey *his moods to others* and energize people with his emotions. He is able to activate the psychological/spiritual lives of other people and their emotional readiness for action. You might say that such a person has* the ability to infect others with his moods *and tends to impose on others the emotional states that he considers beneficial for their life activities.
> What people usually call emotions or a person's display of emotions is neither more nor less than a form of letting out this internal excitation directly, almost without expending it in muscle activity. A cheerful person who laughs releases an emotional charge and inner excitation through certain movements of the muscles of the face and body. This might be a means for reducing overexcitement, when inner exertion cannot be used for the activity it was intended for. But it can also be a conscious method of conveying one's excitement/agitation to others — inducing one's internal excitement/agitation in the psyches of other people. Anger, for example, is also a way of reducing overexcitement, but it is usually directed not at arousing others emotionally, but at emotionally suppressing and depleting them, at lowering their activity level, or at strictly channeling their activity.





> it's more like "I'm gonna do what I have to do to make myself feel ok" without much thought about other people's energy.


Again, this statement is ironic, because you are still framing your definition in relation to the context of energy/mood/tone, which means and shows that you are in fact innately attuned and aware of the mood/tone/energy, whether you are willing to admit this or not. 

Anyway,just confirming there is a misunderstanding going on,similar to the one in your old thread,Plum[/QUOTE]

Nope, no misunderstanding going on. You are just being logically inconsistent in the claims that you make. 



woogiefox said:


> *So if the energy was really LIVELY and energetic, I end up being the more calm one that brings people back down to earth. But if the atmosphere is more DEAD, I will end up unleashing nervous/awkward (high) energy and they have to bring me back down. It is a very odd thing, really.
> 
> Manipulating (not in the bad way) the atmosphere of a situation like that is SO Fe. Don't know where everyone is getting Fi dom from, because an Fi dom would quite frankly not give a fuck about the "energy" of the situation or try to change it. *
> 
> ...


You are nitpicking for no apparent reason and you are nitpicking by taking things out of context too, while accusing her of doing the same so hypocrite on you. See all my previous points. 



SugarPlum said:


> *Here is a comment I put on my other thread. I do NOT usually share this much info with anybody, like ever. But when it comes to typing me correctly, then I am more lenient. Please look at the context, and read in entirely... Fe? Fi?*
> 
> _"Allie from the Notebook! Her bubbly nature, quirky sense of humor, and her constant pull between wanting to be free and authentic, to just giving in and settling for second best. Because its easier. I can relate SO much to her. Here is the link to angelcat 's typing of her on her blog. She went from ESFJ to INFP for her. I can most def understand how she could really come off as both. _


_

Again, ironically, you are relating to another character to prove your type. A character you think is an INFP and thus you think, because you relate to her, that this may show as evidence that you may indeed be an INFP. Though you previously claimed that you do not at all relate or use relating as a strategy to figure out yourself.



The Notebook: Allie Hamilton [INFP] - Funky MBTI in Fiction

... Her and Jasmine, bec of her rebellious stubbornness. I will not marry who you tell me to. I will marry who I want! No questions, or debating about it. It is just what is. I married my high school sweetheart when EVERYONE around me told me I was making a mistake. Dont do it. Think this through. Blah blah blah. THEN, when I got pregnant at 17, EVERYONE once again, told me to abort it, give it up! Blah blah blah. 

I was supposed to be in a Rapid Learning School, bec I had the highest SATs in my state pretty much all through elementary. In the 3rd grade, I had a 99% accuracy, and they wanted me to skip a grade like every year. I was SUPPOSED to be in the "gifted programs" bec I kept refusing to skip a grade, or go to a gifted school. No matter how many times I ignored those G.A.T.E program letters , and never committed to them, they still considered me as a part of them. I go all those special treatments. I hated it. The smarts came naturally,although I know, you can't see it through my writing lol. I already emphasized how I dont even think when I am typing in conversation.I just type. i don't even pay attention to grammatical errors really. I could turn on Super-Grammar-Nazi-Girl in a flash! Anyway, so just bec it all came naturally to me, I just didn't find being "Super-Genius" appealing. My family, and I mean my WHOLE family was always soooo proud and expected me to take my potential to higher levels. Well, I didn't want to. So I didn't. Every time a new invitation was given, it was politely declined. I wanted my life the way I wanted it and that is all there is to it. My ISFJ sister has always been the opposite. The exact opposite. We were just talking about this actually. She always wanted to make my family proud. If they weren't proud, then what would be the point. She worked her ASS off to be at the top of her classes. if I had a dollar every time I heard "Misty works so hard Jackie, just to have what you have naturally! Yet you throw it all away. Why are you so stubborn? Think about your future! Think about your success! blah blah blah".... and I am over here like, "EXACTLY! MISTY wants this! and shit, she EARNED IT! Give her the damn praise she deserves!! Leave me alone. This is my life!". I got pregnant at 17 and married at 18, even though EVERYONE said NOOOOOOO! Well, guess what, suck it! I will do what I want. What I want, is to get married and start my own life without yall smothering me. Make my own choices. My sister? pffft! She is (no joke) a 21 year old virgin, and senior at a Christian university, doing mission trips and saving herself for marriage. She "courted" her now fiance, and they have been "courting " for 3 years. They dont even kiss! Yes, Duggar style! ... uhhhh, I lost my V-card at 14, bec well, I wanted to. Luckily, my husband was my next BF, so I wasn't tempted to sleep around. Just 2 for me, and I married the 2nd. Thank Jesus. ANYWAY, I am PROUD of her! I ADMIRE her! We are best friends and we always talk how extremely different we are. She does not like expectations either, just like me. The difference is, SHE will adhere to them, and I won't. Even the weddings. Well, when my whole clan of family finally got it through their head, that there is no telling me what to do, bec I will do what I want anyway (I have been called strong willed since a kiddo), then the Family started asking about the wedding plans. Well I have always thought about different options for my wedding. My main thing has always been about flowers. I NEED flowers around me at all times, so the flowers were always gonna be my big splurge and the photography. And I know I wanted it intimate. I didnt ever want that big traditional thing. My vows to my husband are not about anyone. Honestly I would have loved to eloped. Where it could just be between me, him, and God. BUUUUT everyone wanted the big wedding. To make a family event out of it. I was the first grandchild to be both pregnant and getting married. They are a BIG catholic family too. Anyway, sooo... guess what ended up happening? A PRIVATE ceremony with my brothers and sisters, parents and grandparents. A total of 12 ppl, under an oak tree in jeans and a flowy blouse. No bridal party. No reception. No fuss. My family was PISSED. BUT, it was what I wanted. My dad didnt even attend, bec he couldn't take all the "rebellion and stubbornness" I gave. that is the thing. I wasn't trying to rebel, bec I love nothing more than a tight-knit family. But, just bec they want dictate my life, and I dont let them. They see it as a personal attack. It's not. I just know that I do what I want. Point. Blank. Period. I still would love to celebrate the holidays with them and I love them all so passionately. BUT there is another thing. There are a couple bad apples that have weaseled their way into the family (by marriage). So I no longer attend the bigggg hugggge family traditions. I have almost become shunned bec I refuse to be present in a room that hold a cpl people that are so morally corrupt. My ISFJ Grandma, sister and ESFJ aunt, ALL say, "lets all just put our differences aside for one night. This is about family". I am like "Nope. Sorry. I love you all with all my heart, but if I attend, that says I support their actions, and I don't. So not going. Point. Blank. Period." I can't just go. To make others feel better. It will be all a facade. Fake. I don't do fake. Somebody has crossed the line with MY moral system. I want nothing to do with them. The End..... Now my sister, will still attend, even though she agrees and feels her morals have been violated as well. But she goes, to please others. To suck it up and make a memorable night. But will go back to loathing these people after the night is through. I refuse. Until the problem is FIXED , not swept under the rug, I am not budging.... Also, my sister is planning her wedding and she is so busy trying to make sure everyone is accommodated, she is losing sight of what is supposed to be about her, her fiance and god. It is not about the others. She has changed the location 3xs, the time, twice, the date twice, the bridal party 3xs and so on... why? to make sure everyone is happy. Me? I see this as a waste of time. It is impossible to make everyone happy. It cant be done. She is so stressed, and I am like..uhhh, just elope!!! Go to Hawaii, just the 2 of yuz. Go on the beach, smell the ocean, hear the waves clash, feel the presence of God His canvas all around you and look DEEP into your mans eyes. Say those vows like you mean it! Screw everybodies demands. Just marry your man. Its about the marriage, not about the wedding. She starts to become tempted by it... them, nope. she just can't. Everyone would be hurt etc. 

Another example ... my sister and I were just talking on the phone last night. She called me bec she was going to be going out to dinner with some friends for a celebration "Finals are over, woo hoo!". Anyway, SHE has the reputation of being really judgmental. Which, she kind of is. But I see where she is coming from, due to her and I having the same core values. But there is a difference between her and how on how they are dealt with. she is an introvert, so she doesn't shout her judgments from the roof top, but with those she is closer to, she will share. And it comes of as self-righteous almost, to others. They feel condemned by her. She doesn't mean for that, but yeah. So anyway, she was like "hey, so i am goin out with ___ and __ and ___ tonight, and they are saying they are gonna get some 'drinks' too. What do I do? I still wanna go, but I dont want them to think I am judging them like they always do. i just dont know how to act when they do things like that." .... we talked for awhile, and I finally got through to her that it is fine to stand in your truth, and not waver, but you cant expect others to see it your way. That is between them and God. Don't be preachy with them. They know your stance on it and that is good enough. They know your feelings on drinking, so no explanation necessary. let them know that it is a conviction YOU have for YOU from God, and so YOU have to listen to it. If they want to debate it to justify heir views, then they are the ones opening that can of worms. But dont go to them as a preacher. If they bring their opposing side over into your backyard and take a s***, then yeah, you gently correct them, and send them on their way. Only correct when they come in your backyard, by saying "IT's fine to drink and party! You have it all wrong!". When they do this, they are taking YOUR beliefs and S***ting on the. You then correct them, by saying "well that is the way you see it. I see it differently. I am not telling you what you need to believe, but please dont tell me what I need to believe either.". I had to explain to her that even though she may view HER views as the one and only objective truth, so do Muslims! So would you want a Muslim coming and telling you that you HAVE to believe in Allah? NO! because you believe the opposite. You are opposed to their beliefs, as they are opposed to your. If you dont want to be controlled, you cant control others. She finally understood. I was like, yeah, so as much as I want to keep America as a Christian Nation and it hurts me to see it change, at the same time I don't want to see it become a Mormon or Islam nation (no offense, just indifference). So If I don't want their religions pushed on me as law, I have to respect not pushing mine on them as law either. It is a sad truth for me. Anyway... she understood and it was another good example of our differences. I have always been the type that everyone knew where I stood..I would stand in my truth and convictions... but I would still hang out with the bad crowd or whatever. They just knew, I couldn't be coerced. They knew I wasn't judging them, but I still didn't agree. They knew not to tell me I was wrong for NOT getting high after school, just like I didnt push my beliefs that getting high after school wasnt the smart thing to do. They do their thing, I do mine. 

It was mentioned that jumping in to save the day was Fe...but couldn't it be Fi backed Te or even Se? Me just taking action was bec I wasn't going to sit and ponder what I should do. All I knew, was that it needed to end. NOW. He was being hurt and humiliated. I went AGAINST the crowd who thought it was okay. Not one person cared, or if they did, they chose to just stand and watch. 

I dont express emotions in words as much as I do in actions. When I am sad, I will space out and tears will flood my face, but I don't want to talk about it. I cant stop the tears and the pain, but I have trouble articulating WHY I am hurt , so I just say nothing. I don't say I love yous, but I put those people first. I always have their back and they know where my loyalty lies. When i am pissed, I would rather just punch you, but that will land me in jail, so I am more forced to explain my anger. i hate having anger inside, so that is why i release it. but I would still just rather punch you. I will also give big squeals of joy or excitement when I am happy, but I still don't really express it verbally. I squeal and clap and get excited and say "OMG! so exciting!!" but that is it. I actually will start to ask THEM if and how and why they are excited. So, am I facially expressive? YES!... Am I dramatic? YES!... Am I emotional? YES!... Buuuuut am I filled with emotional words? YES, but the hardly ever come out! Even when I do sit down to talk with my husband on a serious matter. Its very logical. We talk about where we should move, we discuss it in a logical way. When I talk about something that IS an emotional thing for me, it usually still comes out in a logical or even aggressive way. I hate crying in front of anyone, and sometimes I CAN'T keep my tears back. I will sit there so stoic, and motion less. I won't even blink, and the tears STILL flood my face. If people notice this, I usually say I am fine and smile. I don't WANT to have to talk about the emotions... UNLESS, in occasion, I release them to my Mom. I do have lots of opinions about hings, and I do make judgments fairly quickly... But I will usually keep those to myself. Not because I am trying to keep peace/harmony, but because I don't want to be misunderstood. But when I am talking to my trusted few, I will share them.

Click to expand...

I can't read this but I don't think I have to at this point. Also, I didn't know Funky MBTI in Fiction was angelcat's Tumblr. I think she needs to sort out a lot of stuff on that blog. I can totally tell she's an Fe aux by just reading some of her definitions and how she describes things on it lol. It needs a lot of work.



Now IF you all can honestly STILL see Fe, and even Fe-dom still.... Then i think I will have no choice BUT to accept it, bec I would have MAJORLY misjudged Fe. I love Fe! I want to be Fe. I just dont think I am convinced I do. so please, tell me... is this stuff STILL Fe?"

Click to expand...

_


> PS. Can all my hyperbole, emojis and exclamatory talk be high Ne?


I don't see Ne. I see Fe and Si.


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## Barakiel (May 20, 2014)

@Entropic, I'm sure when we eventually read past your wall of text, we shall debate heartily. :wink:


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## Dangerose (Sep 30, 2014)

Entropic said:


> 1: First of all, not a single one of you have no idea what an INFP is like. NOT ONE OF YOU.
> 2: Not one of you with few exceptions seem to know and understand the differences between Fe and Fi. You should listen to Night Huntress. She knows and you don't.
> 3: There's no way SugarPlum is an INFP because 1). If you knew 1), you'd know why 3).
> 4: This is one of a crappy test with good intentions but utterly fails at what it seeks to accomplish.
> ...


Nope, no misunderstanding going on. You are just being logically inconsistent in the claims that you make. 



You are nitpicking for no apparent reason and you are nitpicking by taking things out of context too, while accusing her of doing the same so hypocrite on you. See all my previous points. 



Again, ironically, you are relating to another character to prove your type. A character you think is an INFP and thus you think, because you relate to her, that this may show as evidence that you may indeed be an INFP. Though you previously claimed that you do not at all relate or use relating as a strategy to figure out yourself. 

I can't read this but I don't think I have to at this point. Also, I didn't know Funky MBTI in Fiction was angelcat's Tumblr. I think she needs to sort out a lot of stuff on that blog. I can totally tell she's an Fe aux by just reading some of her definitions and how she describes things on it lol. It needs a lot of work. 

I don't see Ne. I see Fe and Si.[/QUOTE]

Ahh, this comment was so harsh yet insightful! Will you do me please? <3


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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

*


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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)




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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

Entropic said:


> 1: First of all, not a single one of you have no idea what an INFP is like. NOT ONE OF YOU.
> 2: Not one of you with few exceptions seem to know and understand the differences between Fe and Fi. You should listen to Night Huntress. She knows and you don't.
> 3: There's no way SugarPlum is an INFP because 1). If you knew 1), you'd know why 3).
> 4: This is one of a crappy test with good intentions but utterly fails at what it seeks to accomplish.
> ...



PLEASE read the essay you said you didn't read... Please?


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## Apple Pine (Nov 27, 2014)

Entropic said:


> ...


Read it all.

Thank you for ending our rambling. Appreciate that.

I see now, the first scenario is so Fe, I would behave completely different. I would get angry, think of her as a selfish and a liar. Instead of telling, moves forward, and assumes everything is fine. That's selfishness, it's good for her, but by this it will make things worse for me. Also, I wouldn't try to show that I care, if she doesn't understand that I do - she doesn't care, doesn't pay attention to me.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

woogiefox said:


> Read it all.
> 
> Thank you for ending our rambling. Appreciate that.
> 
> I see now, the first scenario is so Fe, I would behave completely different. I would get angry, think of her as a selfish and a liar. Instead of telling, moves forward, and assumes everything is fine. That's selfishness, it's good for her, but by this it will make things worse for me. Also, I wouldn't try to show that I care, if she doesn't understand that I do - she doesn't care, doesn't pay attention to me.


Yes, see how you focus on your own feeling state? You get angry, you feel angry, and how you feel about her (selfish and a liar). That's Fi right there.


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## 68097 (Nov 20, 2013)

Entropic said:


> I didn't know Funky MBTI in Fiction was angelcat's Tumblr. I think she needs to sort out a lot of stuff on that blog. I can totally tell she's an Fe aux by just reading some of her definitions and how she describes things on it lol. It needs a lot of work.


At first I was kind of hurt by this, and frustrated -- because it's nonspecific. It's like you make a cake and someone glances at it and they say, "That's not right," but don't tell you why -- because the flower petals aren't dipped in blue icing. But I really do want to get things right, and to learn, so if you have any resources I can read, or any suggestions on where to start, please pass them on. 

But... yay for being a Fe-aux, I suppose. Heh.

On another note, at least we agree that @SugarPlum is an ESFJ. That's a start. @SugarPlum: you have always been much, much too "large" in your emotions for me to see you as a Fi. You also do not display aux-Ne, in my opinion. 

@Entropic: Do you think extroverts more commonly "identify" with characters that they see as personifying their type, because they are outwardly focused? I've never felt much identification with any character, except in retrospect.

And yes, if you haven't yet, please give us your thoughts on @Oswin. (I'm a bit jealous of your objective, function spotting INTJ-ness.) Interesting, though, that you think Dany is an IXFP. I often wonder that as well, because I think it can be argued that her whole "liberate the slaves" thing is not Fe, but rather "I felt like a slave, so I'm gonna save them all, and if you don't like it, screw you!" mentality.

And, I'm going to stop revising this post and go haul lumber now.


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

Entropic said:


> Yes, see how you focus on your own feeling state? You get angry, you feel angry, and how you feel about her (selfish and a liar). That's Fi right there.


*Disclaimer:* I'm genuinely curious, don't mean to start an argument, so on and so forth.

How would a strong Fi user express a sense of empathy? If, for example, someone says they feel anxious, worried, scared for their partner and for themselves, would this imply Fe because their feelings are influenced by what their partner is potentially going through?


*[Edit] *@Night Huntress, I'm also interested in your point of view if you'd like to share it.


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## Dragheart Luard (May 13, 2013)

@Entropic your analysis confirmed what I spotted in SugarPlum's first threads, I got an ESFJ vibe while I read her posts, and to be honest I tried to give some information that was ignored, so that seemed like a conflictor issue. I didn't bother to explain more as I wasn't in the mood for dealing with emotional outbursts during that time.


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## orbit (Oct 19, 2012)

shinynotshiny said:


> *Disclaimer:* I'm genuinely curious, don't mean to start an argument, so on and so forth.
> 
> How would a strong Fi user express a sense of empathy? If, for example, someone says they feel anxious, worried, scared for their partner and for themselves, would this imply Fe because their feelings are influenced by what their partner is potentially going through?
> 
> ...


I'm probably incorrect in this but oh well. Forgiveness before permission. 

Whoops, misunderstood it. I think the Fi user would care because they care about the person?

I just read the question here not the clarification:
When I'm feeling empathy or trying to relate to someone, I relate it to how I would feel or think back to an experience where I felt something similar. Like I remember when I was talking to Bear and I said that I help people (more than in the passing like if I have to literally consider it) because I see them as someone I could personally be and she related to them because they were just humans?


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

Curiphant said:


> I'm probably incorrect in this but oh well. Forgiveness before permission.
> 
> Whoops, misunderstood it. I think the Fi user would care because they care about the person?
> 
> ...


I do the same, but what if we're talking about someone we've been close to for about... let's say ten years. We feel very strongly for this person whether or not we relate to their experiences. They matter to us, therefore their state of being matters to us. It goes back to wanting to preserve the feelings you have with or for this person.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

shinynotshiny said:


> *Disclaimer:* I'm genuinely curious, don't mean to start an argument, so on and so forth.
> 
> How would a strong Fi user express a sense of empathy? If, for example, someone says they feel anxious, worried, scared for their partner and for themselves, would this imply Fe because their feelings are influenced by what their partner is potentially going through?
> 
> ...







This is Jamie Oliver, ISFP, and how he is concerned about how American food culture is feeding their children. Notice how he's using Te facts to support his own moral value judgement and how is value judgement is subjective i.e. _he_ thinks this is important. His value stems out of empathy and that he's attuned to the suffering of obese children, but notice how he's always talking about how he feels. When he talks about other people, he talks about facts e.g. the story of Britney. He tells about how she has 6 years to live etc., but does he mention how she feels? No, not once. Instead it's about how he feels about her life and life situation.


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## orbit (Oct 19, 2012)

shinynotshiny said:


> I do the same, but what if we're talking about someone we've been close to for about... let's say ten years. We feel very strongly for this person whether or not we relate to their experiences. They matter to us, therefore their state of being matters to us. It goes back to wanting to preserve the feelings you have with or for this person.


^^

I don't understand my friends sometimes but because I feel a kinship to them and I value them... It's worth trying to comfort with them or connect with them even if I don't think their situation is related to me. Any sort of disconnect in the situation is overrided by the general valued bond you share I think.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

angelcat said:


> At first I was kind of hurt by this, and frustrated -- because it's nonspecific. It's like you make a cake and someone glances at it and they say, "That's not right," but don't tell you why -- because the flower petals aren't dipped in blue icing. But I really do want to get things right, and to learn, so if you have any resources I can read, or any suggestions on where to start, please pass them on.
> 
> But... yay for being a Fe-aux, I suppose. Heh.
> 
> ...


Ok, I realized my original statement was harsh and I apologize but I _have_ given you critique on your Tumblr quite a few times. I sometimes comment on your posts under the user Typologist and the reasons why I think it's faulty. Usually, I find that your problem is a tendency to attribute certain traits to a type like you may give an analysis of why someone is an ISFJ, but under the sections of say, Ti, you don't give any reasoning how it ties to Ti. It's just some generic comment like say, wanting to logical and at worst, it's not even related to logic. 

I do think some of your more thoroughly written articles are better, though. It would help if you tried to expand your definitions a bit more and stick closer to the nomenclature. It may be useful to ask yourself, before you submit, if any of the reasons you provide actually are related to the type or whether it's just something to be about their person that is a personal quirk of theirs. Not everything we do, think or say is type-related.


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

Entropic said:


> [video=youtube;go_QOzc79Uc]This is Jamie Oliver, ISFP, and how he is concerned about how American food culture is feeding their children. Notice how he's using Te facts to support his own moral value judgement and how is value judgement is subjective i.e. _he_ thinks this is important. His value stems out of empathy and that he's attuned to the suffering of obese children, but notice how he's always talking about how he feels. When he talks about other people, he talks about facts e.g. the story of Britney. He tells about how she has 6 years to live etc., but does he mention how she feels? No, not once. Instead it's about how he feels about her life and life situation.


Certainly, but what of feeling empathy for someone you have a genuine, strong attachment to, such as a spouse? Would an Fi type not consider both their own feelings and how the other person feels? I've only started looking at the video, so I apologize if he addresses that very topic later on.


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## 68097 (Nov 20, 2013)

Entropic said:


> Ok, I realized my original statement was harsh and I apologize but I _have_ given you critique on your Tumblr quite a few times. I sometimes comment on your posts under the user Typologist and the reasons why I think it's faulty.


Okay. I'll pay more attention in future.



> Usually, I find that your problem is a tendency to attribute certain traits to a type like you may give an analysis of why someone is an ISFJ, but under the sections of say, Ti, you don't give any reasoning how it ties to Ti. It's just some generic comment like say, wanting to logical and at worst, it's not even related to logic.


Fair enough. I know I have a tendency to do that, and to sometimes mix functions to a degree, where I ascribe one thing to a function where it might belong to another, or just be habit. (@arkigos once said that my biggest flaw is trying to nail down all the details ... fit EVERYTHING into the formula, and I can see where he's right.) 

I've been pondering of late if it might not be better to assess the type on the whole, rather than in sections, to avoid that, but then that arises its own set of potential mistake areas. I need a better system. And, I'm also troubled by lower Ti, which means ... I know what I want to say about this character and their cognition, but ... I am not able to pull up objective factual evidence like you can (hence, my jealousy). 



> I do think some of your more thoroughly written articles are better, though. It would help if you tried to expand your definitions a bit more and stick closer to the nomenclature. It may be useful to ask yourself, before you submit, if any of the reasons you provide actually are related to the type or whether it's just something to be about their person that is a personal quirk of theirs. Not everything we do, think or say is type-related.


Thank you.

I'll remember that and try to keep personal anecdotes / comparisons out of it if I can.

Do you find Socionics a better system on the whole? I'm reading through the Wikisocion and finding it interesting... its descriptions of Si, for one thing, are a lot less boring and, for me anyway, more relate-able, and it makes me wonder if MBTI's definitions are what are tripping a lot of people up.


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## orbit (Oct 19, 2012)

Would it be wrong to say that Fi is I empathesize, therefore I sympathesize and Fe is I sympathesize, therefore I empathesize? Or just empathy comes first from Fi followed by sympathy but with Fe it's sympathy then empathy?


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

shinynotshiny said:


> Certainly, but what of feeling empathy for someone you have a genuine, strong attachment to, such as a spouse? Would an Fi type not consider both their own feelings and how the other person feels? I've only started looking at the video, so I apologize if he addresses that very topic later on.


Consider their feelings? Sure. But only in relation to how their feelings make themselves feel e.g. he's so upset, it makes me sad.


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

Entropic said:


> Consider their feelings? Sure. But only in relation to how their feelings make themselves feel e.g. he's so upset, it makes me sad.


Hm, and if someone says their spouse's happiness makes them happy, or their spouse's sadness makes them sad, that would still qualify as Fi? If they wish to make their spouse happy because that in turn makes them happy? Just want to make sure I'm clear on this.


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## Vermillion (Jan 22, 2012)

Curiphant said:


> Would it be wrong to say that Fi is I empathesize, therefore I sympathesize and Fe is I sympathesize, therefore I empathesize? Or just empathy comes first from Fi followed by sympathy but with Fe it's sympathy then empathy?


Yeah, it would be wrong. Neither empathy nor sympathy are function related.


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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

Blue Flare said:


> @Entropic your analysis confirmed what I spotted in SugarPlum's first threads, I got an ESFJ vibe while I read her posts, and to be honest I tried to give some information that was ignored, so that seemed like a conflictor issue. I didn't bother to explain more as I wasn't in the mood for dealing with emotional outbursts during that time.


Really?I was unaware of any info you gave. I never gave an emotional outburst to you. There was a ton of information on my previous threads, mixed with a bunch of derailing. Chances are, I didn't see it. Not sure if it was you or someone else with the name Blue, but I remember information on socionics. Links. And I read them all. So not even sure what this is about.


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## Dragheart Luard (May 13, 2013)

SugarPlum said:


> Really?I was unaware of any info you gave. I never gave an emotional outburst to you. There was a ton of information on my previous threads, mixed with a bunch of derailing. Chances are, I didn't see it. Not sure if it was you or someone else with the name Blue, but I remember information on socionics. Links. And I read them all. So not even sure what this is about.


I left the socionics links but I guessed that you didn't really check them as I saw no comment about them being useful or not. Besides, the outbursts thing referred to your arguments with other people, so seeing that I was like, I'm not going to add more fuel to the fire so I preferred to just read the thread.


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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

Blue Flare said:


> SugarPlum said:
> 
> 
> > Really?I was unaware of any info you gave. I never gave an emotional outburst to you. There was a ton of information on my previous threads, mixed with a bunch of derailing. Chances are, I didn't see it. Not sure if it was you or someone else with the name Blue, but I remember information on socionics. Links. And I read them all. So not even sure what this is about.
> ...



Got yuh. Okay so that was you. You came near the end, when I was very overwhelmed. 2 threads and 100 pages of different info an a ton of derailing. Plus having kids (with autism) to take care of... o was spent. So when you gave those links, I believe you politely suggested I give socionics a go. I also believe I politely thanked you. I did read, but that was later when I took my break. 

My emotional "outburts" were pure frustration and being overwhelmed. I have seen many do this lol.


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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

At this point if anyone would like to keep talking on this thread, and if my name is brought up, please be direct. 

I went to bed and woke up with a shit ton of people referring to me in the 3rd person. I am here. This is my thread. I would like to be a part of a discussion, literally if I am being brought up. Thank you.


In regards to the type thing, not sure if you guys noticed but I changed my type officially yesterday. If what has been showed to me is infact all Fe, then Fe it is. I am okay with that.

What I am not okay with, is everyone talking like I am a mute. You could tell me the reasons ( some of you did, thank you), and not talk amongst one another about something you all agree on. It wasn't even a discussion on debate. Everyone is unanimous. There was no need to keep it going, especially because I had already changed the ESFJ yesterday lol. I was going to do a video today, but ehhh. Screw it lol.


That all said, THANK you for your time. 

Can we get back to just hanging out.. on the other thread?


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## Barakiel (May 20, 2014)

SugarPlum said:


> At this point if anyone would like to keep talking on this thread, and if my name is brought up, please be direct.
> 
> I went to bed and woke up with a shit ton of people referring to me in the 3rd person. I am here. This is my thread. I would like to be a part of a discussion, literally if I am being brought up. Thank you.
> 
> ...


Oh please, I woke up today with 28 notifications, and 24 were thanks. Who can imagine how many people have been speaking of me without tagging, it's rather spectacular. :laughing:


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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

Oh hush... 

PS. I am not even gonna read through all the comments, because yes... i take things personally and get hurt easy. 

Thanks again.... *over to the other thread*.


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## Barakiel (May 20, 2014)

SugarPlum said:


> Oh hush...
> 
> PS. I am not even gonna read through all the comments, because yes... i take things personally and get hurt easy.
> 
> Thanks again.... *over to the other thread*.


Such an innocent lamb, taking offence so easily. :wink:


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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

Bahh.


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## Vermillion (Jan 22, 2012)

shinynotshiny said:


> *Disclaimer:* I'm genuinely curious, don't mean to start an argument, so on and so forth.
> 
> How would a strong Fi user express a sense of empathy? If, for example, someone says they feel anxious, worried, scared for their partner and for themselves, would this imply Fe because their feelings are influenced by what their partner is potentially going through?
> 
> ...


Ok. I don't like questions like this. The reason for that is because when people pick a specific scenario and ask how Fe/Fi/whatever function types behave in that specific situation... sometimes it's simply not possible to tell without generalizing and going wrong. It depends entirely on the context of the issue. Sometimes strong Fi types can express Fe in social situations, sometimes strong Fe types can express Fi -- it depends on what's going on and how they feel predisposed to respond. So it's not possible to conjure up a concrete difference between how Fe and Fi types react in one specific situation.

These things are more holistic. Sometimes a singular expression of empathy is impossible to glean information from. Hell, maybe a Ti dom could have made a very heartfelt expression of their feelings. It's hence important to be aware of the entire context, as well as the general patterns in the behavior and self-expression of the person being typed.

When you look at the context, is the person alternating focus between their emotions and the other objective emotions around them? Or are they focusing solely on the nature of the connections between themselves and all the objects around them? That's the only thing you should be looking for. The former is Fe. The latter is Fi. But you're not going to discover it in a person by isolating every aspect of their behavior and observing it in a vacuum. The result is a logically incoherent mess of observations that defies the functions and the function model.


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

Night Huntress said:


> Ok. I don't like questions like this. The reason for that is because when people pick a specific scenario and ask how Fe/Fi/whatever function types behave in that specific situation... sometimes it's simply not possible to tell without generalizing and going wrong. It depends entirely on the context of the issue. Sometimes strong Fi types can express Fe in social situations, sometimes strong Fe types can express Fi -- it depends on what's going on and how they feel predisposed to respond. So it's not possible to conjure up a concrete difference between how Fe and Fi types react in one specific situation.
> 
> These things are more holistic. Sometimes a singular expression of empathy is impossible to glean information from. Hell, maybe a Ti dom could have made a very heartfelt expression of their feelings. It's hence important to be aware of the entire context, as well as the general patterns in the behavior and self-expression of the person being typed.
> 
> When you look at the context, is the person alternating focus between their emotions and the other objective emotions around them? Or are they focusing solely on the nature of the connections between themselves and all the objects around them? That's the only thing you should be looking for. The former is Fe. The latter is Fi. But you're not going to discover it in a person by isolating every aspect of their behavior and observing it in a vacuum. The result is a logically incoherent mess of observations that defies the functions and the function model.


I'm talking about strong emotional attachments in general, such as those that span many years, not just attachments relating to partnership. I ask because whenever someone expresses a sense of empathy towards someone they deeply care about, it's labeled Fe without considering the nature of the relationship or how they normally relate to other people. In a previous post, you said a sense of empathy has nothing to do with Fe or Fi, but I don't always see people taking that approach when discussing the matter.


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## Vermillion (Jan 22, 2012)

shinynotshiny said:


> I'm talking about strong emotional attachments in general, such as those that span many years, not just attachments relating to partnership. I ask because whenever someone expresses a sense of empathy towards someone they deeply care about, it's labeled Fe without considering the nature of the relationship or how they normally relate to other people. In a previous post, you said a sense of empathy has nothing to do with Fe or Fi, but I don't always see people taking that approach when discussing the matter.


Are you talking about some people in specific?

No, empathy itself is not Fe or Fi. But empathy can be expressed in ways that betray Fe or Fi preferences. THAT is what the focus should be on, ideally. And nowhere in my post do I imply that it's only about partnership-related attachments.


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

Night Huntress said:


> Are you talking about some people in specific?
> 
> No, empathy itself is not Fe or Fi. But empathy can be expressed in ways that betray Fe or Fi preferences. THAT is what the focus should be on, ideally. And nowhere in my post do I imply that it's only about partnership-related attachments.


No, nothing and no one specific. It's just something I noticed about this questionnaire specifically. Whenever someone expressed empathy for their partner rather than go on and on about how their partner was terrible for disappearing, they were more than likely labeled Fe. I would think a healthy Fi user in a relationship spanning many years wouldn't react in such a self-centered way. Hope so, anyway.

I didn't say it was, but I wanted to clarify that I wasn't talking about one specific instance of empathy such as empathy directed at a spouse or partner, but empathy toward loved ones in general.


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## Vermillion (Jan 22, 2012)

shinynotshiny said:


> No, nothing and no one specific. It's just something I noticed about this questionnaire specifically. Whenever someone expressed empathy for their partner rather than go on and on about how their partner was terrible for disappearing, they were more than likely labeled Fe. I would think a healthy Fi user in a relationship spanning many years wouldn't react in such a self-centered way. Hope so, anyway.
> 
> I didn't say it was, but I wanted to clarify that I wasn't talking about one specific instance of empathy such as empathy directed at a spouse or partner, but empathy toward loved ones in general.


For one, I think the questionnaire itself is rather poorly formulated. It attempts to focus on certain functions in each block, but fails to encapsulate other aspects of the personality. It's not impossible to type from, but it's much harder. For all the complaints people have made about the 80q, I actually find that the most helpful questionnaire to type people from. Of course, that isn't true in all scenarios.

Moreover, I also think PerC is predominantly an Fe sort of forum. 

Both those factors could influence what people get typed as off this questionnaire, and why Fe reoccurs frequently.


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

Night Huntress said:


> For one, I think the questionnaire itself is rather poorly formulated. It attempts to focus on certain functions in each block, but fails to encapsulate other aspects of the personality. It's not impossible to type from, but it's much harder. For all the complaints people have made about the 80q, I actually find that the most helpful questionnaire to type people from. Of course, that isn't true in all scenarios.
> 
> Moreover, I also think PerC is predominantly an Fe sort of forum.
> 
> Both those factors could influence what people get typed as off this questionnaire, and why Fe reoccurs frequently.


I agree about the questionnaire. I was around when people first started taking it, and I didn't find it very useful, especially the question about the image. I think my initial typing was INFP. (I'm sure it inspires a few eye-rolls.)

You mentioned the way a person expresses empathy may betray Fe or Fi preferences. Can you say a bit more about that?


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## Vermillion (Jan 22, 2012)

shinynotshiny said:


> You mentioned the way a person expresses empathy may betray Fe or Fi preferences. Can you say a bit more about that?


I already have, in my initial response to you. That is all the clarity one can glean from a vague situation of a "person expressing empathy in a relationship which involves strong attachment".

If you want specific differences, you'll have to ask about specific people and provide adequate context.


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

Night Huntress said:


> I already have, in my initial response to you. That is all the clarity one can glean from a vague situation of a "person expressing empathy in a relationship which involves strong attachment".
> 
> If you want specific differences, you'll have to ask about specific people and provide adequate context.


You're a tough one, but you're right, you did. 



> When you look at the context, is the person alternating focus between their emotions and the other objective emotions around them? Or are they focusing solely on the nature of the connections between themselves and all the objects around them?


No need to continue in that case.


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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

Okay. So I put my big girl pants on and read through the comments. They weren't really bad at all. Actually the only one I had an issue with was with Blue, but we cleared that up.

Anyway, Carry on...


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