# Is this even a function?



## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

arkigos said:


> This is not Ni-dom. This is THINKING. Quite literally. You are saying, "I think a lot, and love working through problems and figuring them out in all their facets.... and it is really visual." ...and people say 'Ni'? Why?!
> 
> If you are primarily thinking, you are primarily a Thinker.
> 
> ...


yeah, but he keeps looking for outside validation for his thinking. True Ti just KNOWS logic is logic, despite what the world feels. 

To be fair he is 14, and this is his first foray out into the world. And he wants applications of ideas, and he likes running experiments, and he really isn't very internally logical IMO when you get down to it. 
Jack got no Ne.

I think he is Ni Te. And at 14 that's all he gets.


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## Psychopomp (Oct 3, 2012)

drmiller100 said:


> yeah, but he keeps looking for outside validation for his thinking. True Ti just KNOWS logic is logic, despite what the world feels.
> 
> To be fair he is 14, and this is his first foray out into the world. And he wants applications of ideas, and he likes running experiments, and he really isn't very internally logical IMO when you get down to it.
> Jack got no Ne.
> ...


My only disagreement with this... is that while a Ti certainly does tend to be absolute with logic, Ti doms are not inclined to think that they know everything. On the converse, it is Pi Te types that are like this. Their subjective Perception is enough for them, especially INTJs. They objectively assess any new information with Te, but the rendering of that into a world view or, say, view of typology, tends to be quite rigid.

Not so with the INTP, who doesn't have Pi to lean on. So, logic is a constant... but information and perspective is not. INTPs thus tend not to come across as strong in a stance, though quite strong in the logic that brought it about. 

I actually think that his putting it to the group is more a sign of Se than of Te. More than anything, though, I strongly disagree that this person is a Pi-dom. Pi-doms, again, are ridiculously difficult to dislodge from their subjective perceptions. Most of the interaction with a Pi dom involves unraveling their perceptions, if possible. 

A strong Ti dom only requires that the logic is abstractly sound. The perceptions are fluid. I'd expect the OP to be reticent on the point of logic far before excluding on the basis of 'vision' or 'world view' or any other sort of private perception. He seems quite OPEN in perception, and thus a Pe. 

I can be wrong on a lot of this, but I am standing firm on the Pi types are often willful and set in perceptions and the OP is not. This message brought to you by my tertiary Si. "I have seen it, thus is it real. I have not seen it, thus it is not real."

I could in particular be totally wrong about the Ti vs Te and Fe vs Fi. That would be funny and sad, but possible.


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## Arakkun (Jun 2, 2014)

@drmiller100
Age, for me, has actually almost nothing to do with cognitive functions.
Why?
I found people with 12 years that before saying their age looked like 20 or even more for their personality (that was developed, a lot!) and 30 years people who have theoretically no problems but react and act with the personality of a kid.

He's developing well, really well.


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

arkigos said:


> Not so with the INTP, who doesn't have Pi to lean on. .


what the fuck is Pi? Nothing I've ever heard of, so it does not exist.


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## TheOddRhombus (Jul 30, 2014)

drmiller100 said:


> what the fuck is Pi? Nothing I've ever heard of, so it does not exist.


Idk. I assume Pi is short for introverted perception. My guess would be that it is a broader term applicable to Si & Ni doms(both Pi types if my guess is correct). Pretty handy, if that's the case. If not, I must sound like an idiot right now, lol.. - Jack


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## Arakkun (Jun 2, 2014)

Pi means (Perceiving function)(introvert), so it's equal to Ni/Si, differently if he had wrote Ji, it meant Ti/Fi


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## TheOddRhombus (Jul 30, 2014)

I'm open on here because I'm, in a way, forced to be. How else can I get legitimately typed by others unless I share my perceptions and processes with them? IRL, I'm very secretive of my ideas/thoughts. That's why I write in a secret code like Da Vinci's in my theorybook(my version of a journal). However, Da Vinci himself was a Pe-dom, so hmm. Interesting, I may have just contradicted my own point. That or maybe Da Vinci wasn't a Pe-dom? Anywho, I eagerly anticipate this thread's advancement. Perhaps I'm not Ni or Ti dom? I relate to Ni more than Ti if I chose between them. - Jack


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## TheOddRhombus (Jul 30, 2014)

Also, isn't hoarding concrete data/information and alluding to it via my brain/imagination Si? That's what I always thought Si was. If not and it is Se, I imagine that's somewhere in my stack. My apologies if I sound misinformed, I'm bad at understanding the functions. - Jack


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## TheOddRhombus (Jul 30, 2014)

drmiller100 said:


> yeah, but he keeps looking for outside validation for his thinking. True Ti just KNOWS logic is logic, despite what the world feels.
> 
> To be fair he is 14, and this is his first foray out into the world. And he wants applications of ideas, and he likes running experiments, and he really isn't very internally logical IMO when you get down to it.
> Jack got no Ne.
> ...


Yeah. For example, I think Locke's famous quote is preposterous. Logic is NOT the anatomy of thought. Grr. - Jack


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

Arakkun said:


> Pi means (Perceiving function)(introvert), so it's equal to Ni/Si, differently if he had wrote Ji, it meant Ti/Fi


Two Ti guys get in a disagreement. One trolls the other and asks for outside references. The second guy does not realize he is being trolled, and spouts off his OPINION of the made up word he just made, and the original troll guy gets it.

meanwhile Te bystander jumps in and starts spouting quotes of other people's failed logic. 

Of the three of us, one of us is different. i'm pretty sure I"m ENTP. I bleive arakkun is INTP. 

Jack is Te IMO.

Age does indeed matter. Intelligence horsepower and how good the home life adjusts somewhat when people develop emotionally, but the basics are the basics. 

Piaget spells it out rather well. 

Jack is ahead of schedule no doubt in some ways. yes, he is doing great.

have fun jack. Life is good. Being a kid is good. 

ENjoy it.


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

philosopherspidy said:


> I'm open on here because I'm, in a way, forced to be. How else can I get legitimately typed by others unless I share my perceptions and processes with them? IRL, I'm very secretive of my ideas/thoughts. That's why I write in a secret code like Da Vinci's in my theorybook(my version of a journal). However, Da Vinci himself was a Pe-dom, so hmm. Interesting, I may have just contradicted my own point. That or maybe Da Vinci wasn't a Pe-dom? Anywho, I eagerly anticipate this thread's advancement. Perhaps I'm not Ni or Ti dom? I relate to Ni more than Ti if I chose between them. - Jack


i always thought da vinci was an INTP or ENTP. kind of a selfish bastard, but was a sign of the times as well.


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## Psychopomp (Oct 3, 2012)

philosopherspidy said:


> I'm open on here because I'm, in a way, forced to be. How else can I get legitimately typed by others unless I share my perceptions and processes with them? IRL, I'm very secretive of my ideas/thoughts. That's why I write in a secret code like Da Vinci's in my theorybook(my version of a journal). However, Da Vinci himself was a Pe-dom, so hmm. Interesting, I may have just contradicted my own point. That or maybe Da Vinci wasn't a Pe-dom? Anywho, I eagerly anticipate this thread's advancement. Perhaps I'm not Ni or Ti dom? I relate to Ni more than Ti if I chose between them. - Jack


Why would you choose Ni? 

More to the point: define Ni.



philosopherspidy said:


> Also, isn't hoarding concrete data/information and alluding to it via my brain/imagination Si? That's what I always thought Si was. If not and it is Se, I imagine that's somewhere in my stack. My apologies if I sound misinformed, I'm bad at understanding the functions. - Jack


No. Si, as a function, is 'anti-real'. That is, all objects (from a church to a hotdog to a person, or whatever) are filtered through the subjective impression. Essentially, the perception of anything real is an entirely arbitrary and internal process that has the ability to create an almost delusional suppressive filter on all that is perceived. Si types can be thought of to... at their core... say that "real is overrated". Objective reality has no hold on them. They can blink it away. 

In a stereotypical example... you find an Si that is a Conservative, and you try to have a conversation with them about their WORLD VIEW, or their view of objects.... it is a futile effort. They have the ability to filter all reality into a dampening field, through a pair of 'how I want to see it' glasses and that is more their reality than the objects (information) you are presenting them. If it becomes a tense logical debate, it is not Si. Si is not a rational thing that you duke it out with. It is Nemesis, eyes cold, watching someone ramble on about how the blue sky is pink. It isn't a battle of logic, or of feeling... it is, and there is an impassive utterness to it that brooks no argument at all. 

Now, lest we stereotype, realize that hyper-liberal hippie communist intellectuals can be Si types. Howso? Well, Jung said that there is no way to know what filters a subjective lens might create. Any number of factors, happening off-screen, coalesce to cause the Subject to grip Objects and twist them into arbitrary forms in the mind. We cannot say what form it will take, but only that it will be 'anti-reality' and highly subjective and peculiar. 

This example uses an extreme Si as its model. In someone like me, it manifests the same way, but is inferior and subjugated to Ne and to Ti. I am nevertheless absolutely, manifestly, demonstrably an Si. 

Ni is the same in that it is an arbitrary and highly resistant view of reality itself... however, Ni orients itself to the underpinnings of existence.. to symbols and implications, and does much what Si does, but in that realm instead. Jung called Si types, in a sense, given to 'mythology' of their own unconscious making. Ni types are not like this, being quite opposite with their Se... but in the realm of implications and signs and meaning and symbols, are equally arbitrary and subjective as any Si.

You see why I would expect any Pi to have a well-formed, difficult to engage, strongly willed, and impassive VIEW or VISION... that would be taxing and futile to chip away at. Thus, you are very likely not such a person. 

If you ARE such a person, I would more quickly believe that it is Si than Ni. 



drmiller100 said:


> i always thought da vinci was an INTP or ENTP. kind of a selfish bastard, but was a sign of the times as well.


Almost certainly an NTP. E or I is not really a big deal. He was an Ne and a Ti.. and not so strongly one without the other that it needs to be made a fuss of.


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

arkigos said:


> No. Si, as a function, is 'anti-real'. That is, all objects (from a church to a hotdog to a person, or whatever) are filtered through the subjective impression. Essentially, the perception of anything real is an entirely arbitrary and internal process that has the ability to create an almost delusional suppressive filter on all that is perceived. Si types can be thought of to... at their core... say that "real is overrated". Objective reality has no hold on them. They can blink it away.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The first description of Si is a great explanation of my ex wife. ISFJ, and her world view is her's. Not open for discussion or debate. Incredibly persistent in the face of logic, real world examples, or other people's needs and wants.

I've been around a fair number of INTJ's and INFJ's. You can indeed change their world views with real world examples. Not trivial, but they both do have Fe or Te and want to categorize the world. Once something is categorized, they are indeed willing to re examine if need be. Not trivial, but it is possible.

Jack is not Ne. Too linear, he can't bounce, and he won't/can't use Ti to decide for himself.


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## TheOddRhombus (Jul 30, 2014)

arkigos said:


> Why would you choose Ni?
> 
> More to the point: define Ni.
> 
> ...


Ok, now I understand Si a great deal more. I know I don't have that in my first 4 function stack unequivocally. I never do that stuff, like ever. So, you asked me to define Ni(Gr8, more stuff to screw up). I'll try. My understanding of Ni is that it is...a process used to predict things??? Shut up X_X. To be equitable, it is probably the hardest function to describe. I'm just too lazy to go look up an article about it and share my understanding. - Jack


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## TheOddRhombus (Jul 30, 2014)

drmiller100 said:


> The first description of Si is a great explanation of my ex wife. ISFJ, and her world view is her's. Not open for discussion or debate. Incredibly persistent in the face of logic, real world examples, or other people's needs and wants.
> 
> I've been around a fair number of INTJ's and INFJ's. You can indeed change their world views with real world examples. Not trivial, but they both do have Fe or Te and want to categorize the world. Once something is categorized, they are indeed willing to re examine if need be. Not trivial, but it is possible.
> 
> Jack is not Ne. Too linear, he can't bounce, and he won't/can't use Ti to decide for himself.


BTW, I was meaning to ask you something. Yeah, why do you think I have no Ne? As far as I know, I could see it somewhere in there. I don't generate ideas well at all, but I do play devil's advocate constantly. I also seem sufficient enough in cross-contextual thinking. IDK if this is related to Ne at all, but I'll share it anyways because it seems fairly important( it's about me sitting on the toilet XD). Whenever I'm going poop, I always look at the pattern of the tiles on our rug we have in there. I'll spend my whole time on the toilet rearranging the tiles, forming seemingly endless amounts of patterns. I'm slow, but they are sound and correct. TMI? Oh well, screw it. I also like to walk around our kitchen akin to various chess pieces, my fav to mimic being the knight(we have tile in there). I like tile, I hope I have that in my house some day...To me, not much is more enjoyable than organizing and arranging shapes & patterns. Though I'm too old for it, I love playing with my shape box and pulling them out/amusing myself with them on the floor(It typically serves as my stress reliever). I also like to screw around with building blocks(NOT Legos, those suck). Ooh, I just thought about more stuff I like to do. I just bought this game bundle. Basically, it comes with 250 house parts, and a plot of land. You claim it, and then just build. It was the most fun I've had in a long time. It took me about 80 hours of gameplay, but it's AWESOME. I just LOVE designing things and seeing every part correct, watching it come to fruition. K, now I'm rambling, so I'll end it. @StunnedFox I know you, you are interested in these kind of posts. I'll mention you, cause I think you'll enjoy browsing it. - Jack


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## TheOddRhombus (Jul 30, 2014)

I think I am a Te user, too. @drmiller100. I love organization. I also see Se somewhere in my stack, probably somewhere lower. - Jack


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## Giraffe77 (May 5, 2014)

Just look at philosopherspidy coming up with new ideas, then jumping to a new possibility, then perhaps seeing potential in something else. I can definitely see the Ne. 

Ne builds a tree with branches to different practical possibilities and potentials. Yet, being young, he still is discovering his creative function, Ti, which will eventually help to organize everything internally for structure. 

A wild guess, but I'd put a bet on ENTP.


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## TheOddRhombus (Jul 30, 2014)

TMills27 said:


> Just look at philosopherspidy coming up with new ideas, then jumping to a new possibility, then perhaps seeing potential in something else. I can definitely see the Ne.
> 
> Ne builds a tree with branches to different practical possibilities and potentials. Yet, being young, he still is discovering his creative function, Ti, which will eventually help to organize everything internally for structure.
> 
> A wild guess, but I'd put a bet on ENTP.


Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I'm glad you decided to post, despite it being a wild guess. I want to get everybody's views and opinions on this, no matter how crazy and out-of-the-norm they may seem. One thing that is fishy, is I am an organized person. That's indubitably my OCD, however. It'd be a funny sight, if your guess happens to be true. An ENTP/aspie/ocd/ hermit? How crazy sounding is that? Lol. I have gotten INTJ suggested mostly, seconded by INTP, thirdly ENTP, and fourthly ISTP. That's the data, if you were wondering about it. - Jack


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## TheOddRhombus (Jul 30, 2014)

Maybe a good idea would be to look at my tritype, and apply it to my MBTI somehow? It could maybe plug up some missing holes. Maybe that's worth a shot. I'm very sure of that. - Jack


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

TMills27 said:


> Just look at philosopherspidy coming up with new ideas, then jumping to a new possibility, then perhaps seeing potential in something else. I can definitely see the Ne.
> 
> Ne builds a tree with branches to different practical possibilities and potentials. Yet, being young, he still is discovering his creative function, Ti, which will eventually help to organize everything internally for structure.
> 
> A wild guess, but I'd put a bet on ENTP.


yeah, an entp with weak Ne and weaker Ti, but has huge strong Ni and Te. 

Ne is walking through a fucking forest in the fall and all the leaves are falling all around you and you grab a leaf (idea) and look at it for a microsecond before moving on.

A branch on a tree is Ni. From one to the next in sort of an order. It happens fast for Jack as he is bright and quick but not Ne. 

Ne would be consderation of using tiles on the floor as toilet paper.


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