# S/N relationships



## sparkles (Mar 2, 2011)

What is your experience of crossing the S/N divide? Is it a situation where one person will always have to use extra energy or is it possible to sidestep this in some way? Do S's and N's inevitably annoy each other, or do you have experience communicating with someone whose preference is opposite to yours with success and pleasantness? Are there keys to success for effective and energy-maintaining S/N communication?

Speaking here of all sorts of relationships, friends, coworkers, significant others, etc. 

I believe communication is the main issue for N/S, but if you have become aware of others, please share/discuss those as well.


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## Mr.Xl Vii (Jan 19, 2011)

It really all depends on how much you feel like catering to others. My mother and step father have an S/N divide. My mother has a lot of patience though so she's willing to take the time to bridge the gap. If you have no patience like me, you probably shouldn't date or deal with S types. As far as getting along is concerned it's really not as much of a problem as there being a mental disconnect. I've dated two S types and was fine with it, but I wasn't as open with them as I would have liked.

I have S type friends though. Not too many SJs but SPs are my homies


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## sparkles (Mar 2, 2011)

What are some ways to get an N to have a more S-friendly conversation? I know N likes possibilities and ideas, I don't even know if I can articulate exactly what S communication is about, except for taking things at face value and focusing on the concrete.

@Mr.Xl Vii what up hommie? (I'm SP.) Thanks for the post, you're right patience is needed to cross the divide. I have patience, but the longer I hang out in N land, the less patience I have access to, and the more likely it is that my S bluntness will cause trouble.

Hmm, I should read up on ways to restore energy lost from activating/expressing from your inferior function. That would so come in handy!


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## jack london (Aug 27, 2010)

My SO is an ISFJ and I am an INTJ. Oy, the trouble the "N" and "S" cause. Don't get me started. 

I once made a post here showing statistics of happiness between the different MBTIs. If I find it again I'll link to it. I seem to remember there was a correlation between happiness and type.


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## Mr.Xl Vii (Jan 19, 2011)

sparkles said:


> What are some ways to get an N to have a more S-friendly conversation? I know N likes possibilities and ideas, I don't even know if I can articulate exactly what S communication is about, except for taking things at face value and focusing on the concrete.
> 
> @Mr.Xl Vii what up hommie? (I'm SP.) Thanks for the post, you're right patience is needed to cross the divide. I have patience, but the longer I hang out in N land, the less patience I have access to, and the more likely it is that my S bluntness will cause trouble.
> 
> Hmm, I should read up on ways to restore energy lost from activating/expressing from your inferior function. That would so come in handy!


I think it depends on the N to be honest. I'm an NTP so hanging out with SPs works for me. As and SP I suggest meeting Perceiver N types. We're still pretty out there, but we can cross the divide easier. Being an SP and trying to deal with an NxJ isn't going to happen nearly as well. I can bring my N thought to S level when necessary. Usually I just keep to myself as much as possible anyway.

I dont suggest it in a relationship really, but it's more than okay for a friendship


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## sparkles (Mar 2, 2011)

Mr.Xl Vii said:


> I think it depends on the N to be honest. I'm an NTP so hanging out with SPs works for me. As and SP I suggest meeting Perceiver N types. We're still pretty out there, but we can cross the divide easier. Being an SP and trying to deal with an NxJ isn't going to happen nearly as well. I can bring my N thought to S level when necessary. Usually I just keep to myself as much as possible anyway.
> 
> I dont suggest it in a relationship really, but it's more than okay for a friendship


Yeah. Have a date with an ENTP in a couple days, haven't met in person yet, the N/S is already wearing on me at times. If I understood the difference between S and N better I could just purposefully steer things into S territory, but since I don't know that well enough, my only real option would be to say "Hey! This conversation is too N-heavy for me." Which, I would totally do - with people I know better.


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## Mr.Xl Vii (Jan 19, 2011)

sparkles said:


> Yeah. Have a date with an ENTP in a couple days, haven't met in person yet, the N/S is already wearing on me at times. If I understood the difference between S and N better I could just purposefully steer things into S territory, but since I don't know that well enough, my only real option would be to say "Hey! This conversation is too N-heavy for me." Which, I would totally do - with people I know better.


I mean he'll probably begin to pick up on your body language in person. So he'll realize that you're not too into those abstract deep conversations. If he is really Ne heavy though you might not be able to stop it. Just smile and nod lol. If you just engage his find side I think you'll be good. I've dated an ESFP before. He'll learn to adapt


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## sparkles (Mar 2, 2011)

Mr.Xl Vii said:


> I mean he'll probably begin to pick up on your body language in person. So he'll realize that you're not too into those abstract deep conversations. If he is really Ne heavy though you might not be able to stop it. Just smile and nod lol. If you just engage his find side I think you'll be good. I've dated an ESFP before. He'll learn to adapt


Thank ya. I'm good with listening to an N and marveling at the possibilities they weave in their minds and then (try, lol, some anyway) to verbalize. I'm sincere here, too, I appreciate it, and I love when I can witness an N idea expulsion/explosion. I ask good questions too if it makes sense to. If I have to participate beyond listening/questioning with the focus still on the other person's ideas, it's a different matter.

Engage his find side? Interesting about the body language adaptation point, wasn't aware but I guess the E makes that make sense.


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## Mr.Xl Vii (Jan 19, 2011)

sparkles said:


> Thank ya. I'm good with listening to an N and marveling at the possibilities they weave in their minds and then (try, lol, some anyway) to verbalize. I'm sincere here, too, I appreciate it, and I love when I can witness an N idea expulsion/explosion. I ask good questions too if it makes sense to. If I have to participate beyond listening/questioning with the focus still on the other person's ideas, it's a different matter.
> 
> Engage his find side? Interesting about the body language adaptation point, wasn't aware but I guess the E makes that make sense.


I think I meant to write his "fun side". Because we're still ExxP types. So we're down for having fun and doing EP stuff. And there are a bunch of levels where we adapt to body language. Our Ne gives us insight into the world around us so we pick up on subtle nuances. Plus our Fe allows us to gauge the emotional read out. So trust me he'll adapt.


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## counterintuitive (Apr 8, 2011)

sparkles said:


> Is it a situation where one person will always have to use extra energy or is it possible to sidestep this in some way?


 This is, unfortunately, my experience with SJ friends. One of us is always having to 'live' in our weaker functions when we're around each other, and it's usually me, which makes conversing with them very draining.

I know very few SPs, all STPs (though I imagine SFPs would be fine, too). I get along with them quite well, probably because of the shared Ti. I notice, in general, that SPs are open to novel things and possibilities. They may not reciprocate, i.e. speculate _with_ me, but they are all right with new things, unlike the SJs I know (which are probably not representative of all SJs). So yeah, I don't know any ESFPs, but I'd say we could hold a decent conversation. I have to agree that it's largely based on the individual types than simply S/N. And lastly, there's probably strong individual variation, ofc.


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## sparkles (Mar 2, 2011)

Mr.Xl Vii said:


> I think I meant to write his "fun side". Because we're still ExxP types. So we're down for having fun and doing EP stuff. And there are a bunch of levels where we adapt to body language. Our Ne gives us insight into the world around us so we pick up on subtle nuances. Plus our Fe allows us to gauge the emotional read out. So trust me he'll adapt.


 ******, thankie. Except also, not cool, I kind of rely on the people around me to be less into fun than me, so I stay out of trouble, heh.


Wilson said:


> This is, unfortunately, my experience with SJ friends. One of us is always having to 'live' in our weaker functions when we're around each other, and it's usually me, which makes conversing with them very draining.
> 
> I know very few SPs, all STPs (though I imagine SFPs would be fine, too). I get along with them quite well, probably because of the shared Ti. I notice, in general, that SPs are open to novel things and possibilities. They may not reciprocate, i.e. speculate _with_ me, but they are all right with new things, unlike the SJs I know (which are probably not representative of all SJs). So yeah, I don't know any ESFPs, but I'd say we could hold a decent conversation. I have to agree that it's largely based on the individual types than simply S/N. And lastly, there's probably strong individual variation, ofc.


 Definitely that openness in ESFP, yes. Can see it's also true that individual type will influence this.

I think there's a shared function, as well, that allows some N and some S to share appreciation for wacky, random, quick sort of stimuli. An ex and I used to watch Adult Swim together, which is heavily populated by that sort of thing.


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## unico (Feb 3, 2011)

My best friend is an S and I'm an N and we have always complemented each other well. We are both autistic (with similar characteristics of this -- not really fitting the stereotypes of "autistic") and we both love animals. I love unicorns, and she does, too, but focuses mainly on horses. We have lots of fun doing outdoorsy activities together and like some of the same books and movies. She is more facts-based and we don't have a lot of theoretical abstract conversations the way I do with my N friends, but our friendship is fine and she is also F more than T, like me, so we are very empathetic and sympathetic toward one another and focus on personal values. We felt a very deep connection since the beginning and we help each other with the tasks each finds more difficult.


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## LotusBlossom (Apr 2, 2011)

I never really felt any sort of problems or glitch in communcation when it comes to interacting with Ns, and this could be because I grew up in a family of Ns so I learned to communicate in their wavelength pretty fast.

I remember that as a kid I used to be really frustrated at my dad (INTJ) when I asked him for the time. He would round it up or down to the nearest 10 minute increment. For example, if it's 5:07, he'd tell me it's 5 o'clock, and I'd look at the clock and see 5:07....agh...no dad, don't tell me it's 5:00 when it's 5:07!! It's these little things that cannot help but annoy sensors but intuitives don't see as a big deal.

For me, the much bigger divide is between F and T. S/N differences don't faze me at all.


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## unico (Feb 3, 2011)

Kayness said:


> For me, the much bigger divide is between F and T. S/N differences don't faze me at all.


This is true for me, too -- I have far more F people in my life, whom I generally feel it is easier to relate to.


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## Sign of the Times (Mar 4, 2011)

sparkles said:


> What is your experience of crossing the S/N divide? Is it a situation where one person will always have to use extra energy or is it possible to sidestep this in some way? Do S's and N's inevitably annoy each other, or do you have experience communicating with someone whose preference is opposite to yours with success and pleasantness? Are there keys to success for effective and energy-maintaining S/N communication?
> 
> Speaking here of all sorts of relationships, friends, coworkers, significant others, etc.
> 
> I believe communication is the main issue for N/S, but if you have become aware of others, please share/discuss those as well.


I am ISTJ happily married to an ENTP. I find we work pretty harmonically as a team because one person's weaknesses are the other's strengths, e.g. his optimism and playfulness lighten up my seriousness and make me less prone to getting depressed about things, my calmness and confidence with practical matters have a calming effect on him when he's getting stressed out with getting practical things done, etc. 

We bond more based on shared fundamental values and a common vision for what we want out of life. In that kind of context the differences are appreciated and respected, so they don't create a lot of conflict.


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## fouxdafafa (Mar 20, 2011)

In my group of close friends 5 are Ss and 1 is N. Although the N has a developed S because we usually talk about 'S stuff'. I had actually typed her as an S, and was suprized when she came out as INFJ. But in general the odds would pretty much show that Ss usually get along better with other Ss. But it could also be the fact that Ns are a minority. (30% of the population) Soooo IDK. xD


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## sparkles (Mar 2, 2011)

Sign of the Times said:


> I am ISTJ happily married to an ENTP. I find we work pretty harmonically as a team because one person's weaknesses are the other's strengths, e.g. his optimism and playfulness lighten up my seriousness and make me less prone to getting depressed about things, my calmness and confidence with practical matters have a calming effect on him when he's getting stressed out with getting practical things done, etc.
> 
> We bond more based on shared fundamental values and a common vision for what we want out of life. In that kind of context the differences are appreciated and respected, so they don't create a lot of conflict.


 This is interesting. I'm probably quite calm in a crisis, but a smaller personal crisis can make my F get in the way. Glad to hear the arrangement works for you


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## Up and Away (Mar 5, 2011)

Hmm. Me INFP her ISFJ.

Basically, she appreciates smells touch details that you see when you look straight at it, I appreciate kind of the overall atmosphere, a blending of everything, art I can see with peripherals preferably over a large expanse with a couple levels of elevation etc..

She remembers details in front of her, and I can be oblivious to those details and more go off of my sense of which direction I turned, rather than whether we turned at the jewelry stand etc... I spend time linking concepts together, and she might spend time linking what is happening to her past experience and telling really cool stories about it etc..

The difference in Fi and Fe is interesting too, and I'm not sure how much the S/N and Fi/ Fe divide overlap.


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## Invidia (Feb 26, 2011)

I am married to an ISTJ, and am an INFJ myself. We actually don't have a lot of arguments or drama. Earlier in our relationship I was really insecure and jealous, and he would shut off emotionally and not give me reassurance, which would exacerbate the situation. But having matured over time, it isn't much of an issue at all. We keep things pretty light, which leaves me at times starved for a deep, philosophical discussion. He makes an attempt at these, but sometimes I lose him, or when he tries to clarify I will not tell him he doesn't get it, just to avoid hurting his feelings. Over all, we have a very peaceful relationship, and accentuate each other pretty well IMO.


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## Youre A Stranger (Apr 10, 2011)

I find that I fall more towards being N, but I enjoy the S mentality to keep my dreamerass on the ground. I also like to consult a friend of mine--who I believe, though not confirmed via MBTI test is an S--to think about the mechanics of my various fictional works in a more concrete way. I tend to look at fiction in the mindset that, "I want it to work this way." He gives me the, "This is how it doesn't make sense assuming that the physics in your fictional world are the same as in the real world." I actually really appreciate this input.

Is my understanding correct on the S mentality? Is this description accurate of an S? (I'm not entirely learned or confident on how to identify an S based on descriptions I've read.)


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## Stephen (Jan 17, 2011)

sparkles said:


> This stuff is fascinating to me. I tend to apologize in the way that matches the sort of apology I prefer, but there's plenty of other apology languages. If I don't pick that person's language they won't feel like it's moving toward being righted. Ripe for misunderstanding, this stuff.
> 
> Just like the love languages. It took me many years to realize my mother's actions to sacrifice her own wants so she could meet some of my wants, a materially-based sort of action, was her way of showing love. [Did you guess she's ISTJ? Lol.] I had preconceptions for what love was supposed to look like when expressed to me. I looked for it in a very emotional and physical sort of package, because I express love through physical touch and words of affirmation or quality time together. Boy did I feel like crap when I realized - within HER language - just how much she'd been showing that love that whole time. It was a great insight for me, and opened up my understanding of how we all express love to each other.


Yes. I'm hoping these insights will help me relate in the future. Even if I don't know what someone's "language" is, I can recognize that it may not be the same as mine. I was surprised how appealing I found the responses in the "apology" quiz where the person was restating what they did wrong. It's reassuring to hear that someone knows what they did wrong. That sounds like a good default way to apologize to me.


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## sparkles (Mar 2, 2011)

Stephen said:


> Yes. I'm hoping these insights will help me relate in the future. Even if I don't know what someone's "language" is, I can recognize that it may not be the same as mine. I was surprised how appealing I found the responses in the "apology" quiz where the person was restating what they did wrong. It's reassuring to hear that someone knows what they did wrong. That sounds like a good default way to apologize to me.


I agree with you in a sense, though I think the regret option is more stating it in simpler and surface terms. My own preference goes a step beyond that, to convey empathy for how it is that the action would irk me. So "I'm sorry I flaked on our plans last week. I shouldn't have done that." doesn't cut it for me, but "I'm sorry I flaked on you. It was inconsiderate of me to not follow through with our plans, and probably made it seem like I don't respect your time. Please forgive me" works much better.

And while I agree with what you said about a general apology, my friend I mentioned wouldn't agree! She'd want to hear, "I'm sorry about last week. Let me treat you to our next dinner to make up for it." No regret there really. 

So even your and my idea of a good default may not suit everyone!


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## soul215 (Apr 26, 2011)

Im surrounded by sp.. And I love them. My bro is and estp. Husbands and istp. Allow the ex im still cool with are sp. Nuff said.


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