# Am I Fe or Fi?



## Hunter1611 (Apr 27, 2010)

> Nothing I just saw the article and I wanted to add that.


Alrighty then. So why again can't you be an INFP?


----------



## spaceynyc (Feb 18, 2017)

Hunter1611 said:


> I'm not sure that I agree with this. Si users are security driven, planning their ideal future based on their past experience or observation of others past experience. They don't like change because they don't like be in untested waters, however, they also tend to learn from their mistakes because they remember very clearly what didn't work so they'll avoid repeating it or a similar situation at all costs. I don't think that lacking Ni has anything to do with a lack of follow through on their part. Plenty of types with lower Ni lack follow through. Te tends make one particularly prone to following goals through to completion. Combining that with Ni creates a long term vision that an INTJ will strive to achieve. An ISTJ will have long term goals that are probably more 'simplistic', less dreamy and less grand. (IE: I want to get married at X age, have a nice house by X age, and be making X amount of money.)
> 
> But I'm also not sure what talking about an Si dom has to do with typing you, unless you're starting to question your status as an N.


from my experience most Ni users are not grand visionaries [stereotype] and Si users aren't long term planners. Ni users will probably be more likely the ones to say "I want to get married at X age, have a nice house by X age, and be making X amount of money" using long intuition and work according to that goal. Si users are more short term planners, one step at a time. Their unconscious Ne keeps them open-ended. this is from my experience though.


----------



## jetser (Jan 6, 2016)

Hunter1611 said:


> Alrighty then. So why again can't you be an INFP?


I don't know. Do you see me as an INFP?
The way I see it, INFPs are much more likely to jump on an opportunity to fight for a cause that fulfills their convictions.
While I have my convictions, I usually hold off my judgement until I see a possibility for changes to be maintainable and working in the long run.
I would never cheer for anything that isn't maintanable and just a quick "fix".
On the other hand I tend to zero in on causes that fulfill my instincts and convictions on a personal level. This is not a sudden idea that just pops out of my head but a deep conviction that needs to stay with me. I have to feel like it's _inevitable_ otherwise I don't care.

Otherwise I find INFPs "cute" and tend to side with them. Like Andrew Garfield is INFP and he's one of my favourite actors, stars in two of my favourite movies (The Social Network, Silence).


----------



## Hunter1611 (Apr 27, 2010)

> from my experience most Ni users are not grand visionaries [stereotype] and Si users aren't long term planners. Ni users will probably be more likely the ones to say "I want to get married at X age, have a nice house by X age, and be making X amount of money" using long intuition and work according to that goal. Si users are more short term planners, one step at a time. Their unconscious Ne keeps them open-ended. this is from my experience though.


I'm married to an ISTJ.. he's definitely not an INTJ. He did exactly what I described.
Whereas, I know an INTJ who determined that he wanted to be in the best shape of his life by the time he was 50. (He was proclaiming this while in his 40s) And he made it happen. Not saying that's a particularly grand goal, but it is a rather inspecific one.


----------



## Hunter1611 (Apr 27, 2010)

> I don't know. Do you see me as an INFP?
> The way I see it, INFPs are much more likely to jump on an opportunity to fight for a cause that fulfills their convictions.
> While I have my convictions, I usually hold off my judgement until I see a possibility for changes to be maintainable and working in the long run.
> I would never cheer for anything that isn't maintanable and just a quick "fix".
> ...


Well.. warning, these are half baked thoughts and I hate sharing half baked thoughts. Regardless...
I have moments where I go "Ok, INTJ makes sense". But then you do something odd like decide to update an article I sent you rather than apply it to yourself almost like you completely missed the point of me sending it to you to begin with. Initially struck me as scattered brain Ne. You also constantly reference characters you like as examples. Not just characters in general but characters you like specifically. I partially wonder if that's not tied somehow to NF idealism. 
You're also somewhat emulating the stereotypical Te arrogance, bluntness, and attitude but saying that means you're a Te dom/aux is like saying all Fi doms are cute, sweet, and nice. I'm trying to figure out if you're displaying a typical T attitude or a more anti-emotion that a colder F user might display. 
I also was reading some of your other posts, and it kinda looks like to me that you picked up the use of the word 'resonates' from another user. Not sure exactly what that indicates but that sort of emulation doesn't strike me as an NTJ thing to do. 
And then I find it interesting that an Ni dom jumped in here and tried to call you an ISTJ.. which clearly indicates that person doesn't think you're a Ni like him.

Have you looked specifically into Ne vs Ni?


----------



## jetser (Jan 6, 2016)

Hunter1611 said:


> Have you looked specifically into Ne vs Ni?


Yes. Like a billion times.  Sorry, but I've been through that.
I don't know about the word resonate and what it indicates but it may help if I tell you that I'm not a native English speaker. So me picking up words is natural in fact it is one of the causes I use an English language forum instead of my native language.
If you think INFP makes sense I'm okay with that.

BTW. I applied the article to me. But brief discriptions like these won't bring me closer to the truth, I think. So I found it better to update something I know.


----------



## Hunter1611 (Apr 27, 2010)

> I don't know about the word resonate and what it indicates but it may help if I tell you that I'm not a native English speaker. So me picking up words is natural in fact it is one of the causes I use an English language forum instead of my native language.


Ok that makes sense then. lol. 
I'm unsure. Only things I know is that you have Fi-Te or Te-Fi.


----------



## spaceynyc (Feb 18, 2017)

Hunter1611 said:


> I'm married to an ISTJ.. he's definitely not an INTJ. He did exactly what I described.
> Whereas, I know an INTJ who determined that he wanted to be in the best shape of his life by the time he was 50. (He was proclaiming this while in his 40s) And he made it happen. Not saying that's a particularly grand goal, but it is a rather inspecific one.


so you're saying Ni sets unspecific goals? and that's the difference from Si users?


----------



## Hunter1611 (Apr 27, 2010)

> so you're saying Ni sets unspecific goals? and that's the difference from Si users?


Perhaps. Ni goals might be more abstract. Si goals will probably be security and stability driven and thus focused on fulfilling physical needs. Hence, making so much money and having a house by a certain age. But I'm specifically referring to an Si-Te when I'm talking. I would imagine an Si-Fe would be different. An ISFJ I know in real life does tend lack follow through which is why earlier I tied long term goal completion back to the Te function and not Si vs Ni.


----------



## jetser (Jan 6, 2016)

Hunter1611 said:


> Perhaps. Ni goals might be more abstract. Si goals will probably be security and stability driven and thus focused on fulfilling physical needs. Hence, making so much money and having a house by a certain age.


Si goals circle around comfort and basic needs.
Ni goals ..well not so subtle.


----------



## Hunter1611 (Apr 27, 2010)

> Si goals circle around comfort and basic needs.
> Ni goals ..well not so subtle.


This may just be generalizing or guess work but I tend to think and have kind of observed that Si users do not seem to require goals in their daily life. They'll merely create an standard of living they want to reach and that will be their goal and then they'll just strive to ensure that standard of living doesn't change. They won't necessarily reach any higher or find another goal once that is achieved, whereas I think Ni doms are generally more future oriented, constantly using their intuition to see where things will lead and thus constantly striving to follow the most ideal path toward the future. Forward thinkers.


----------



## Mr Castelo (May 28, 2017)

jetser said:


> *Why I'm Fi*:
> 
> - I appreciate individuality over groups or communities
> - I tend to attract to Fi types. I view Fe as simple. You say one wrong word and Fe will drop you in a minute, completely forgetting everything that's been going on between the two of you.
> ...


Okay, you either have low or no Fe, I don't see INFJs being that individualistic/distant.



> *Why I'm Fe*:
> 
> - I like harmonious groups and societies: like Japan for example. People seem so quiet and peaceful.
> - I empathize with people in need. When I read about poor people or people who suffer I can't help but empathize with them. Not all the time though, and it only works from a distance, not on the spot.
> ...


Those seem more like general Feeling rather than a specific function. The last point doesn't even seem like Fe, but rather Fi.



> Keep in mind that if I'm INTP I still won't have many Fe characteristics and can appear the opposite, and if I'm INFJ I will downplay reality as much as I can so that will affect my general reactions towards people as well.
> But please don't suggest any other type because I'm sure that I'm one of these three.


I'm confused, how can you only accept INTP, INTJ and INFJ as your type if INTP and INTJ share no functions in common? And why not INFP too? If you're going to include every INxx type, I don't see why you would left INFP out of this.

Anyway, I think you use Fi, not Fe. As for your type, I'm really not sure.


----------



## Turi (May 9, 2017)

Hunter1611 said:


> I think Ni doms are generally more future oriented, constantly using their intuition to see where things will lead and thus constantly striving to follow the most ideal path toward the future. Forward thinkers.


Where the Si dom sharpens their sword and practices their strike, the Ni dom considers all her enemies and seeks an alternative, best-fit weapon.
Until the Si dom has reason to consider an alternate weapon, there is no logic to any differing approach.

The reality therefore is obvious.

Where the Ni dom may present the most universal solution, they could lack the expertise to wield the weapon effectively, so to speak, whereas the Si dom is composed, and confident that they can get the job done with their sword and experience - until proven otherwise, they have no reason to doubt themselves.


Under the grip of inferior Ne, however, the Si dom may doubt themselves in the moment.
Under the grip of inferior Se, the Ni dom will forget they selected the best-fit weapon for a reason, and shift to something more appropriate in the moment, suffering the consequences of this poor, impulsive decision in the future, as they aren't equipped to excel in this frame of mind.

I have intentionally left auxiliary functions and group mechanics out of my perspective here - as this would alter the dynamics immensely.


I'm curious now as to whether something could be gained, from asking people, if faced with a situation in which they were presented with multiple real threats, what weapon would they select, and why - in both solo and group settings.
I.E a zombie invasion.

I feel as though that could produce some insight into the various methods of decision making and thoughts amongst the types.


----------



## jetser (Jan 6, 2016)

Mr. Castelo said:


> I'm confused, how can you only accept INTP, INTJ and INFJ as your type if INTP and INTJ share no functions in common? And why not INFP too? If you're going to include every INxx type, I don't see why you would left INFP out of this.


Because I'm not a sensor and I'm not extraverted. Basically I left all options open aside from these distinctions.
INFP is a slight possibility. I don't see it but maybe you do.

..

Unless there are other types I don't know of (aside from these 16), I don't see many options for me. Looking back at my life I was always head in the clouds, a know-it-all, somewhat idealistic but also realistic/pragmatist to some extent (I didn't let emotions cloud my judgement, but I HAD emotions), clumsy, awkward, much into books (and video games) and often told to be cold or senseless, and definitely distant.
I remember standing up for the bullied ones (but was too awkward to do anything), raged out on at least two occasions which caught off-guard everyone.
I was basically the walking stereotype of nerdy kids.

Later in my life I was told to be passionate, sincere but also clumsy and awkward at group activities.

The way I see it, only these three (or four) types fit the bill. If you know anything better, share it with me.


----------



## Turi (May 9, 2017)

jetser said:


> I remember standing up for the bullied ones (but was too awkward to do anything), raged out on at least two occasions which caught off-guard everyone.


Walk me through this - what happened? What thoughts did you have?
What were the reasons you raged out on those two occasions?

Are those the only two occasions you acted on standing up for the bullied ones?


----------



## jetser (Jan 6, 2016)

Turi said:


> Walk me through this - what happened? What thoughts did you have?
> What were the reasons you raged out on those two occasions?
> 
> Are those the only two occasions you acted on standing up for the bullied ones?


They were both centered around me.
One occasion was when I simply slapped one of my classmates just out of the blue. He stared at me surprised but started to laugh and I slapped him again. I felt he invaded my privacy and kept annoying me all the time. I couldn't stop it and felt awkward.
The other was much more serious. The bullying did not stop and I simply decided that the next time they come at me (there were more guys) I attack back. We were at an engineering class and I grabbed a rasp with the intent that I would hit him whoever comes to me. I was right and they came back. I didn't hesitate and I quickly turned around and hit one of them in the forehead. I almost killed him, blood was everywhere. He was rushed to a hospital. Of course he survived but a bruise remained on his head.
Later I felt shitty of course. And everyone was lethargic. I was the last person on Earth they thought was capable of these things. I admitted immediately that it was intended, it was no accident - I don't know if I took a pride in it or I was simply that honest. My friend (?) forgave me later on. He understood what I went through.
That's what I remember. I had rages later too, didn't cause any harm but was freightening and sudden according to witnesses.

(I don't know it that counts something but I felt that rage coming back again as I typed this story.)


----------



## Turi (May 9, 2017)

jetser said:


> They were both centered around me.
> One occasion was when I simply slapped one of my classmates just out of the blue. He stared at me surprised but started to laugh and I slapped him again. I felt he invaded my privacy and kept annoying me all the time. I couldn't stop it and felt awkward.
> The other was much more serious. The bullying did not stop and I simply decided that the next time they come at me (there were more guys) I attack back. We were at an engineering class and I grabbed a rasp with the intent that I would hit him whoever comes to me. I was right and they came back. I didn't hesitate and I quickly turned around and hit one of them in the forehead. I almost killed him, blood was everywhere. He was rushed to a hospital. Of course he survived but a bruise remained on his head.
> Later I felt shitty of course. And everyone was lethargic. I was the last person on Earth they thought was capable of these things. I admitted immediately that it was intended, it was no accident - I don't know if I took a pride in it or I was simply that honest. My friend (?) forgave me later on. He understood what I went through.
> That's what I remember. I had rages later too, didn't cause any harm but was freightening and sudden according to witnesses.


Geez, must have been tough mate.

These are both instances where you've focused on yourself - are there any instances you can recall where you have stood up for the bullied ones?
You said you did, but were too awkward to do anything - I'm unsure what this means - my understanding was that you raged out twice under these circumstances.


----------



## jetser (Jan 6, 2016)

Turi said:


> Geez, must have been tough mate.
> 
> These are both instances where you've focused on yourself - are there any instances you can recall where you have stood up for the bullied ones?
> You said you did, but were too awkward to do anything - I'm unsure what this means - my understanding was that you raged out twice under these circumstances.


Those were not rages, simply trying to stop someone bullied. There was a smalled kid in my class (I was the next smallest one) who were freqently bullied too. I told them to stop but of course nothing happened.
Later I've learned that I better keep a distance from these actions but I always felt disgusted when I saw someone bullied. Tried to talk down people from it, but there were simply always more of them than I could do away with.
But I stopped some cyber bullying later on. I managed to do that.  They stopped because they came to respect me (I was a journalist and a blogger).


----------



## DOGSOUP (Jan 29, 2016)

jetser said:


> By making sense I mean that it has to be a cause that I think is maintainable (without further championing) and it revolves around more than just feelings; like I never really cared for same sex people to be able to get married, because I see very little importance in marriage itself (compared to other, more pressing issues), and also would never really cheer for people to be allowed to wear their religious items in public (such as wearing a hijab or wearing crosses or whatever), because religion in general doesn't make much sense to me, so even if I think everyone has the right for doing so, I would usually drop out of this kind of debates.


Hmm, so it does seem you put are somewhat aware of the social context of this (comparing something to other issues and evaluating which is more important) but your focus is still subject-oriented; these things may not be relevant to you, but you will leave room for others to value them by dropping out.



> However I would actively stand up for people who get bullied or would like to stop global warming.


Btw can you say more about how you would champion or defend these causes?



> I have a farely good read for people who're faking, and also capable to detect if people are lying to me. Sometimes if I know the person well, I'm able to foresee some actions that he/she might take or general patterns about their life where he/she's headed. On a few occasions these things turned out to be true.


How easily are you able to point to concrete signs of these patterns, in other words, verify them, or do you come to these conclusions more indirectly? 
One of the differences me and my SFJ friend have is that I usually observe an overall, _vague_ change in a person or discrepancy in their words, but the SFJ is more capable of pointing out actual behaviors or actions which point to that same direction. Both of us focus on what the person is expressing, but the impressions we gather are quite different. She then is quite willing to start speculating on things with Ne, whereas I'd prefer to wait until some kind of Se observation verifies my suspicions.



> The distance to what people are able to go to prove their love and bond for each other is amazing. The effect that they had on each other, often only after a few instances. That's the thing that moved me in both movies as well.


Okay, this kind of thing I tend to see as more introverted side of feeling, although I wouldn't say it's entirely one or the other. The reason it vibes Fi-ish is because you see the effect on another person as forming a bond, and an emotional bond isn't really something you can observe and judge externally (although there can be signs of it). But yeah this sounds like something you seek out and value.



> My motivations. They barely see through it. Often I come off as overly ambitious and arrogant. While I think I just make out faults or shortcomings that are obvious to me.


People quite often express this kind of consern where they appear like something to people whereas their own experience of themselves is extremely different. A friend of mine suggested this is because we are with ourselves the ALL the time, and see all of the sides we present to others. It's kind of natural we'd be aware of this dissonance between what we know and what other people see. Just seems like a lot of people are harsh on themselves _and_ others when it comes to this.

It's NTR I guess though at one point I did consider it would have something to do with a conflict between our most adapted function (dominant) and our least adapted, immature, even unconscious inferior. And how our inferior compares to that of others. And whether we are truly driven/motivated by our dominant or our inferior.



> PS: Just to let you know, I always appreciate your opinion. I feel like we're not the same type but you understand what I have to say.


:kitteh:


----------



## jetser (Jan 6, 2016)

DOGSOUP said:


> Hmm, so it does seem you put are somewhat aware of the social context of this (comparing something to other issues and evaluating which is more important) but your focus is still subject-oriented; these things may not be relevant to you, but you will leave room for others to value them by dropping out.


Exactly.



> Btw can you say more about how you would champion or defend these causes?


I comment about these issues all the time. I tell people that climate change is real, we should do something, I follow blogs, sometimes watch movies that are associated with these questions.



> How easily are you able to point to concrete signs of these patterns, in other words, verify them, or do you come to these conclusions more indirectly?
> One of the differences me and my SFJ friend have is that I usually observe an overall, _vague_ change in a person or discrepancy in their words, but the SFJ is more capable of pointing out actual behaviors or actions which point to that same direction. Both of us focus on what the person is expressing, but the impressions we gather are quite different. She then is quite willing to start speculating on things with Ne, whereas I'd prefer to wait until some kind of Se observation verifies my suspicions.


I never speculate. I know what you're talking about, ESFJ's/ESTJ's tertiary Ne. I hate it, it triggers me, it annoys me to speculate about something I don't really have an insight and I see it as childish.
These are only vague impressions. A sudden change in behaviour when I get a glimpse of where it could be leading, a general feeling towards the other person where he/she is heading or what he/she really wants.



> Okay, this kind of thing I tend to see as more introverted side of feeling, although I wouldn't say it's entirely one or the other. The reason it vibes Fi-ish is because you see the effect on another person as forming a bond, and an emotional bond isn't really something you can observe and judge externally (although there can be signs of it). But yeah this sounds like something you seek out and value.


I definitely seek out this kind of bond. I can go crazy over someone whom I just discovered this kind of bond with. But this doesn't happen very often of course. In fact, only few times in my life.



> People quite often express this kind of consern where they appear like something to people whereas their own experience of themselves is extremely different. A friend of mine suggested this is because we are with ourselves the ALL the time, and see all of the sides we present to others. It's kind of natural we'd be aware of this dissonance between what we know and what other people see. Just seems like a lot of people are harsh on themselves _and_ others when it comes to this.
> 
> It's NTR I guess though at one point I did consider it would have something to do with a conflict between our most adapted function (dominant) and our least adapted, immature, even unconscious inferior. And how our inferior compares to that of others. And whether we are truly driven/motivated by our dominant or our inferior.


This may be so.


----------

