# Happy Memory #435 - FFXIII



## Reluctanine (May 11, 2014)

Ahhhh, today was a good day. My mum took half a day off today! So I got to eat shrimp fried rice.  it was kinda small portion for the price she paid though. :| she said the girl eating it there had a much bigger portion. But at least it wasn’t too salty! Good!

And I did my writing first thing today. It was still difficult, because the main character I chose so many months back has a sad life and a pretty big problem to fix, so all my feelings are spilling out left right center. But at least we’re on the road to fixing it now, and there’s a brief reprieve of a festival thing going on, so phew. Safe harbour for a while.

I just finished watching FFXIII Lightning Returns! Omg, writing was so infp, lol. I bet it was done by an infp. Seriously. I can really relate to what Lightning was going through. I went to read some reviews online and some of what they said is true. Some of the side characters didn’t feel very real. But I liked the narrative of it. I think part of this might have to do with the fact that I watched the game like a super long movie. I wasn’t interrupted by gameplay etc, so I could really get into the story and heads of the characters. I think that’s the problem with story-driven versus your-own-character driven gameplay. Most people don’t have a lot of time to sit down and go for long hours gaming, and it’s harder to pull people in with a story type, since there’s this “other” feeling to it. Also, I wonder if Lightning’s gender has anything to do with it. What she’s struggling with seems more female-centric in some sense. Or the way she expresses herself, rather. Ah, how do I express it… just a feeling I get. The themes explored seem more… personal? I have no idea how to explain this. OH WELL. I should mull over this and think of how to explain myself better.

Yeah, I know, a bit late to experience this hahahah. Can’t be helped. (Got an infp feels-boner from it XD ) but I really enjoyed it! Gave me all the warm fuzzies at the end hahahaha and made me re-evaluate my life.

Ahhhhhhhhhh feel so happy now aahahhaah.

…

Okay, thought about it.

[spoilers? I mean it’s been so many years. Lol.]

What I really liked about the ending of the game was that we see Lightning accepting the feelings she had, and the need she had for not only her sister but also all her friends. When we started off, Lightning was this hardass who didn’t need-no-buddy. And it’s perfectly reasonable for her to act that way, because she’s been through a tough life, since she lost her parents when she was very young. Having to open her heart up to more people would mean more loss to her. It’s why she doesn’t like Lumina at all when they first met, because Lumina is the playful, chaotic part of her. Remember, we’re seeing Lumina through Lightning’s lens. Lumina gets along really well with Vanille, so it could be that we’re seeing a biased version of events. Lumina makes friends really easily, like the people at the church. The guy was saying how she brings joy to the bleak world they live in. It’s a very stark contrast to who Lightning was at the beginning of the FF series. (Yeah, I watched them all >_>)

Gamers are mostly males, or at least some of the more scathing reviews I read online are from guys. I think it might be hard for them to relate to the theme of the game because, sadly, emotions are not really valued in our society and this repression is seen more severely for guys. They’re kind of seen like obstacles to distance ourselves from and try to “get over it”. For girls, we’re usually allowed more leeway to show “weaker” emotions, like sadness, and fear and to ask for help for it from other loved ones. For guys, I’m sure they feel the same things, but it isn’t the social norm to be allowed to show it since they’re supposed to be all tough and strong. 

But here’s the thing. Showing emotions isn’t a sign of weakness. It’s a sign of strength, because to show that you need help is not an easy thing to do. Sure, putting on a tough exterior is good in times of crisis, but when the moment has passed, and the threat is over, it’s actually more beneficial to ask for help and to bond over it. Or at least to try and accept your emotions and then see things in a different light. At least, that’s what I do. Lol.

The reason the game doesn’t resonate with a lot of guys is because Lightning is a female, so there are some pre-conceived notions of her bound up with that. Because she is a female, duh, she’s supposed to be all emotional, like she is in the end. That is supposed to be her normative state as a female of society. Feels like we’ve come full circle just for her to be more emo. But if you track her emotional growth as a character and not just as a female of society, you’ll see that the journey she goes through actually has more to do with the struggles I think a lot of guys face but might not really admit it.

BUT what she faces is also something a lot of modern women can identify with, more and more. Can you be seen as competent while being emotional at the same time in your company? Are emotions really only a feminine exclusive trait to express? Can you be strong and yet accept your soft side at the same time? Is being feminine a sign of weakness? Lightning rejected her emotions because she wanted to be seen as strong. But is that a sign of true strength?

There are of course other concepts tied up with the game, like free will versus destiny, and how love triumps all, but yeaaah, I was most invested in Lightning’s journey, so that’s what I wanted to talk about, hahaha.

I think the really obvious change she had was at the ending scene, when she’s changed out of her military and hard clothes into a softer cardigan and high heels. It’s not just a sign of the change in times from chaos to peace, but also a show of her new inner acceptance and strength, expressed in a girly way, of course. 

And the amazing thing that the existence of Lumina shows is that… Lightning hasn’t really changed at all. All her combat experience and skills are still there within her. She’s just grown into a more self-accepting lady. So even though she doesn’t wield a big sword anymore, she still has what it took to defeat the gods inside of her - both her strength of will to accomplish a mission and her strength of emotions that bind her to the people close to her - her humanity.

Emotions and the Chaos that come with it are what makes us human. The little robot that waited patiently outside the tomb for his friends seemed even more human than Hope in the Ark did at times. And the funny thing is that with the progress of technology and how efficiently things are getting done by robots, we are bound to start questioning what use is a human when a robot can one day do all the same things he can? Is there truly a place for people who cannot accomplish their “mission” in life? Are people really just the sum of all the things they can do? Will there be any difference in the art a human and robot makes in the future?

The game is essentially answering all those questions with Emotions, with Love being the most powerful one of all. Bhunivelze, God of Light, was quite mechanical and tough, looking like he wears a mask in his character design. He is unable to understand Emotion and the Chaos associated with it. This weakness of his is made even more obvious when he is finally defeated and there are cracks in his face-mask.

Being unable to understand your softer side doesn’t make you strong, it actually makes you brittle. You’re liable to snap with the smallest point of provocation. Just like how a tree is able to sway in the wind, actually grow stronger because of it, and put roots deep into the ground, knowing ourselves thoroughly transforms us and makes us more human, makes us more capable of what we could not have done alone. Because to be human is to be vulnerable, and vulnerability is our strength, because with it, we've gathered and built our lives together, reaching for the moon, Mars, and one day even beyond.

The tree that never had to fight 
For sun and sky and air and light, 
But stood out in the open plain 
And always got its share of rain, 
Never became a forest king 
But lived and died a scrubby thing.

The man who never had to toil 
To gain and farm his patch of soil, 
Who never had to win his share 
Of sun and sky and light and air, 
Never became a manly man 
But lived and died as he began.

Good timber does not grow with ease: 
The stronger wind, the stronger trees; 
The further sky, the greater length;
 The more the storm, the more the strength. 
By sun and cold, by rain and snow, 
In trees and men good timbers grow.

Where thickest lies the forest growth, 
We find the patriarchs of both. 
And they hold counsel with the stars 
Whose broken branches show the scars 
Of many winds and much of strife. 
This is the common law of life.

- Good Timber by Douglas Malloch


----------



## Kyusaku (Mar 18, 2014)

@Reluctanine 

I've only finished Final Fantasy XIII a few months ago, the story had a lot of potential it didn't fulfill, but it might have been due to the incredible amount of time required to finish that game. 90 hours, mostly of combat...I've tried XIII-2, the intro cutscene is gorgeous, though the fighting is still as tiresome. I'm thinking of watching it on youtube too now x). Once I'm done playing Catherine *(Link)*, you should give it a go, it's very much cutscene oriented !


----------



## Reluctanine (May 11, 2014)

@Kyusaku

Hahaha, I watched all three rather than play them. So, I think I had a slightly different experience of the series. Because I need to preserve my finger strength and also to save time and money.  

I also went to investigate who the writer of the FFXIII series was. And it's Daisuke Watanabe. He's more used to writing manga novels, and FFXIII is the first time he's the lead scenario writer. I get the feeling that's why the cut scenes were so engrossing as one long movie. As a game with combat breaks, the pace and intensity of the plot wouldn't have been as exciting. Because FFXIII has more of a slow suspenseful build-up to it, rather than EXCITEMENT every cut scene like some of the FFs in the past, which might also have been because of limited hardware, so they had to be really selective.

YES! I've watched Catherine!!! Hahahahah, all the sheep so funny.  I loved the endings!


----------



## Kyusaku (Mar 18, 2014)

@Reluctanine

Yeah, that was the worst with this game, because the cutscenes where so good, but the combat so long and bad ! I finished it despite how much I hated the combat, but when you have to watch a cutscene multiple times over because YOU DIED ! It keeps you out of the overall experience x). I couldn't wrap my end around the ending though.

I like games that are more progressive, taking time to build up a lot of details, like the persona games, the story is told as much in the narrative, art and gameplay, but with low budget . You should have a look at Persona 2: Innocent Sin *( Link )* and Eternal Punishment. Though I don't know how watchable they are, lots of combat...

Catherine is such an uncomfortable game ! The mood is lightweight, but constantly on edge between comical and creepy, but at the same time it points at very uncomfortable things going on in real life. I still haven't finished the game, I'm on the 6th day. I'm on the middle of the moral scale, I have the hardest time choosing how to deal with such situations ! A man's worst nightmare by a long stretch ! Catherine's definitely not trustworthy, but Katherine is way too domineering, and she's so elusive, it just doesn't fit the motherly image she tries to give.

Damn, I wish I'll get a good one !


----------



## Reluctanine (May 11, 2014)

Kyusaku;bt54130 said:


> Yeah, that was the worst with this game, because the cutscenes where so good, but the combat so long and bad ! I finished it despite how much I hated the combat, but when you have to watch a cutscene multiple times over because YOU DIED ! It keeps you out of the overall experience x). I couldn't wrap my end around the ending though.


WOAH I DIDN'T KNOW THAT HAPPENED. O_O Shit, watching a cutscene multiple times would definitely remove a lot of the emotional impact of the story, without even mentioning how frustrated the player would feel. :|

FFXIII 1&#8217;s ending? Hm. I&#8217;m watching the ending now again. AND WOAH. I&#8217;m pretty sure even in 1, they already knew what they were going to do in 3. I mean, just looking at the fal&#8217;Cie Orphan&#8217;s character design, he&#8217;s super mechanical. And then he/it says this:

&#8220;Have you ever paused to consider our reason for making l'Cie of men? We fal'Cie are crafted for a single purpose, and granted finite power to that end. With men it is not so. Men dream, aspire, and through indomitable force of will achieve the impossible. Your power is beyond measure. We take l'Cie that we might wield such strength. Through you, we obtained freedom from our bondage. And now, your focus alone remains. Defy it, and all will be for naught. Cocoon's sacrifice, and that of Gran Pulse as well. Yet, if we but summon the Maker, we will be granted the chance to begin again. All our sins absolved and the world born anew. Submit l&#8217;Cie! Become Ragnarok! Lead us into the light! &#8230; Ragnarok. The will to guide a world unto oblivion. Can you bear the sin of our salvation?&#8221;

And he goes to target Vanille! Yeah, it&#8217;s pretty clear that when this was written, the whole story had already been planned. 

&#8220;The director of the game, Motomu Toriyama, described the fal'Cie as "god machines surrounding the crystals".&#8221;

The whole game is about destiny (focus, machines) versus free will (love, chaos). Even the way Orphan says &#8220;Can you bear the sin of our salvation?&#8221; Fal&#8217;Cie have done no wrong, because they are mechanically crafted to be perfect by the gods . And yet, because they want to be born anew, they use l&#8217;Cie to try and achieve their means, they themselves have sinned. This most likely was because they were in such constant contact with humans. So, their salvation, which is to become human and have souls, is in itself a sin. Because it is not something that should happen to them. It is most likely not in Bhunivelze&#8217;s plan. 

Orphan knows all this. I suspect what happened was, since Fal&#8217;Cie are tasked with the maintenance of humans and their world, they realised that, hey, humans are actually more efficient at completing impossible objectives of their own that even the mechanical Fal&#8217;Cie know is impossible. Wouldn&#8217;t it be great to be so much more efficient? So, they started using humans and giving them focuses. And because of that, they started desiring to become humans, to be more efficient, to be better. Afterall, since humans can do things even better than a Fal&#8217;Cie can, doesn&#8217;t that mean that a Fal&#8217;Cie is flawed somehow? Ah, if we could begin anew, perhaps we would not have all these flaws anymore. This is Bhunivelze&#8217;s thinking as well, except that he attributes all our flaws to Chaos and emotion, when those two things are what drew him to humanity and are our strengths as well.

What the Fal&#8217;Cie wanted was the outward expression of humanity&#8217;s inner chaos, which gives us strength. If you watch 3, emotions are something that mechanical beings cannot understand. It is also something that Lightning struggles with throughout the whole series, but finally gains strength from right at the end. Bhunivelze and the Fal&#8217;Cie both link our capabilities to &#8220;being human&#8221; and not &#8220;having emotions&#8221;. 
* *




So, I suspect that if the world had been remade with Fal&#8217;Cie, they would become humans in shell, but miss the original emotions and soul of one, just like how Ark Hope and Ark Serah were. Though, from what happened to Ark Serah in the end, it&#8217;s possible that just by imagining the feelings a human might have had, they might have become human too. Super INFP.  Writer even looks like one too.

1 is very much set-up for the further games. My mind is being blown now as I watch the ending. I feel like I need to rewatch things again. Lol.



> I like games that are more progressive, taking time to build up a lot of details, like the persona games, the story is told as much in the narrative, art and gameplay, but with low budget . You should have a look at Persona 2: Innocent Sin *( Link )* and Eternal Punishment. Though I don't know how watchable they are, lots of combat&#8230;


OHHH! I haven&#8217;t touched Persona yet, but I did play Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Survivor a very looong while back! Like I can barely recall the story now. If it&#8217;s anything the same, yeah!!!! It has more of a visual novel feel to it. Haha. Which makes everything flow a lot easier, I think. Like I suspect when human-like people come on screen instead of just reading text, the brain uses different areas, so the (usually male) gamer is drawn out of the world pretty suddenly if it&#8217;s not done well. I don&#8217;t know if Persona is the same or not.



> Catherine is such an uncomfortable game ! The mood is lightweight, but constantly on edge between comical and creepy, but at the same time it points at very uncomfortable things going on in real life. I still haven't finished the game, I'm on the 6th day. I'm on the middle of the moral scale, I have the hardest time choosing how to deal with such situations ! A man's worst nightmare by a long stretch ! Catherine's definitely not trustworthy, but Katherine is way too domineering, and she's so elusive, it just doesn't fit the motherly image she tries to give.
> 
> Damn, I wish I'll get a good one !


I hope you do! YEAH it&#8217;s hilarious and at some parts I&#8217;m like woah wtf. Wtttttfffff. Poor guy is under a lot of stress. Tell me which one you got once you do!!!


----------



## Kyusaku (Mar 18, 2014)

@Reluctanine

Wow, thanks a lot ! I have missed all of that depth. While playing, it reminded me a lot of the plot of Full Metal Alchemist, but very, very slow paced. What you wrote is thought provoking, I want to replay the game now that I'm able to piece those crucial missing bits together.

My mind is blown to. :laughing:

Yeah, he might well have been an INFP ! As an INFJ I have difficulties to follow the path of their stories, because to me a narrative as a central theme to which every character is bound, and who's will and personality is absolutely insignificant. INFPs seem to create stories like an experiment, put different people in different situations and see how it unfolds. It is fascinating when explained, because otherwise I just miss where the real meat is. Cognitive limitations are frustrating...

By the way quotes don't notify the user, only mentions do.

I've never played the ones on DS. I wish I had one ! Persona 2 is combat heavy, but the story is really good. Persona 3 *( Link )* and 4 *( Link )* have more sparse plots, but there have lots of interesting characters you can become intimate with, it's basically a playable highschool mystery anime with a more mature tone. It's neat. The fifth one will be soon released as well !

Persona doesn't have that much text, there are anime parts and 3D parts. But you might be right about visual novels, it's fascinating actually. I prefer having symbols, and anime characters are a patchwork of those. The more worded descriptions and numbers to crunch, the clearer the picture I can build of the fictional world in my head. Sadly good visual novels are a rare breed ! Have you tried Umineko ? It's super long but well written, no sex, and the sense of mystery is sustained throughout. 

Thanks ! I hope I'll have the time this week end ! The sun is coming out, it's hard to stay inside when it feels like spring.

Have you watched Serial Experiments Lain ?


----------



## Reluctanine (May 11, 2014)

@Kyusaku



> Wow, thanks a lot ! I have missed all of that depth. While playing, it reminded me a lot of the plot of Full Metal Alchemist, but very, very slow paced. What you wrote is thought provoking, I want to replay the game now that I'm able to piece those crucial missing bits together.
> 
> My mind is blown to. :laughing:


It does? Which parts remind you of FMA? I only watched FMA:B though, so maybe there’s a big difference!



> Yeah, he might well have been an INFP ! As an INFJ I have difficulties to follow the path of their stories, because to me a narrative as a central theme to which every character is bound, and who's will and personality is absolutely insignificant. INFPs seem to create stories like an experiment, put different people in different situations and see how it unfolds. It is fascinating when explained, because otherwise I just miss where the real meat is. Cognitive limitations are frustrating...


YESSSSSS!!!!!!!!!! TOTALLY AGREE! A pattern I’m starting to see emerge in INFP writing is that we seem to like throwing very, VERY different persons together to form a group to go on a quest together. Like LotR. FFXIII has like…. One of the most diverse character casts I’ve seen in the FF world. From how the characters look like to who they are inside, all super different.

AND WOAH you’re an INFJ? How do you know?! :O You were an INFP before, right?



> By the way quotes don't notify the user, only mentions do.


Oops, did not know that. Well, now I do!



> I've never played the ones on DS. I wish I had one ! Persona 2 is combat heavy, but the story is really good. Persona 3 *( Link )* and 4 *( Link )* have more sparse plots, but there have lots of interesting characters you can become intimate with, it's basically a playable highschool mystery anime with a more mature tone. It's neat. The fifth one will be soon released as well !


Ooooo, okay! I will go and watch them. 



> Persona doesn't have that much text, there are anime parts and 3D parts. But you might be right about visual novels, it's fascinating actually. I prefer having symbols, and anime characters are a patchwork of those. The more worded descriptions and numbers to crunch, the clearer the picture I can build of the fictional world in my head. Sadly good visual novels are a rare breed ! Have you tried Umineko ? It's super long but well written, no sex, and the sense of mystery is sustained throughout.


No, I haven’t!! I will look into this too!! Thank you for reccommending so many things for me to watch. Mwahaha. 



> Thanks ! I hope I'll have the time this week end ! The sun is coming out, it's hard to stay inside when it feels like spring.


Aw yeah, go out and play! Enjoy the good weather while you can!



> Have you watched Serial Experiments Lain ?


Nope!! But I have heard about it. Is it super good? I have this big backlog of anime to watch but maybe I will watch that first if it’s good?


----------



## Kyusaku (Mar 18, 2014)

@Reluctanine

I watched Brotherhood too ! Actually the homunculus tries to sacrifice the whole world in order to force God to appear, merge with him and the rest of the universe. Just like the fal'Cie, he was a tool, his existence is artificial, he was created for a purpose, not born. Just as the fal'Cie, he was jealous of humans for possessing what he lacks, a soul, self determination, individuality. They see the world and people in a similar way, everything is utilitarian, has a purpose and a destiny, because they are themselves created as nothing but tools, they can't conceive any other way to be. I see it as a metaphor for belief systems and ideals. We live under their rules, we try to embody them, but in the end solace isn't found in perfection but in acceptance of the flawed and limited nature of things, and of ourselves. Because we aren't bound to our nature, as you said, we are free to dream and take another path. We are free to be unreasonable and foolish, and maybe surprise ourselves and the world with improbable results.

Yeah, I thought I was INFP ! But I was educated in a very Fi way by my ENTJ brother, who wanted me to become totally independent like he was, though with mixed results. Anyway, socionics made me realize I was mistyped. Fi is a superego function (I think ?) for an INFJ, meaning, because we are ambivalent emotional wise, we tend to build an ideal model of who we should be, with firmly held beliefs. In reality, even the most stupid things can affect us, that's why we need a power figure inside our mind. I often feel weak and defenseless so I try to make people believe I'm strong and fierce as a mean to hide. INFJs are the real fluffy bunnies, INFPs are tougher inside.

Hehe ! I hope you have a good time with those ! There's plenty more where that came from. :tongue:

Sadly the weather is kind of shitty... :frustrating: And I have lots of clothes to iron out. Meh. I wish it was June already...

It's very good, a little odd though. You should have a look at Ghost Hound, from the same team, it's a bit more conventional than Lain, but still worthwhile. They have both 13 episodes, so you can't go wrong there.

Have you watched Battlestar Galactica ? I'm currently into season 2, you might like it I think, the characters are well written. It's very INFP like as well. :th_wink: 

Damn I'm so scattered ! It takes so long to finish anything...

Thanks for the insightful conversation !


----------



## Reluctanine (May 11, 2014)

@Kyusaku

Oh yeah! The version of FFXIII 3 I watch is this. it’s cut quite well! There are some game world scenes included as well.



> I watched Brotherhood too ! Actually the homunculus tries to sacrifice the whole world in order to force God to appear, merge with him and the rest of the universe. Just like the fal'Cie, he was a tool, his existence is artificial, he was created for a purpose, not born. Just as the fal'Cie, he was jealous of humans for possessing what he lacks, a soul, self determination, individuality. They see the world and people in a similar way, everything is utilitarian, has a purpose and a destiny, because they are themselves created as nothing but tools, they can't conceive any other way to be. I see it as a metaphor for belief systems and ideals. We live under their rules, we try to embody them, but in the end solace isn't found in perfection but in acceptance of the flawed and limited nature of things, and of ourselves. Because we aren't bound to our nature, as you said, we are free to dream and take another path. We are free to be unreasonable and foolish, and maybe surprise ourselves and the world with improbable results.


OH THAT’S TRUE WITH WHAT YOU SAID REGARDING FMA:B!!!  I agree with everything you’ve said here, actually! 



> Yeah, I thought I was INFP ! But I was educated in a very Fi way by my ENTJ brother, who wanted me to become totally independent like he was, though with mixed results. Anyway, socionics made me realize I was mistyped. Fi is a superego function (I think ?) for an INFJ, meaning, because we are ambivalent emotional wise, we tend to build an ideal model of who we should be, with firmly held beliefs. In reality, even the most stupid things can affect us, that's why we need a power figure inside our mind. I often feel weak and defenseless so I try to make people believe I'm strong and fierce as a mean to hide. INFJs are the real fluffy bunnies, INFPs are tougher inside.


Oh! Yeah! That seems to be the case for Fe types. And yes, I agree. I mean, just go around reading the forums, INFPs are quite tough inside, though we seem kind of fluffy on the outside.



> Sadly the weather is kind of shitty... :frustrating: And I have lots of clothes to iron out. Meh. I wish it was June already...


Ahhh warm sun in June, huh? Oh gosh, I detest ironing. It’s so… boring. :| Put on headphones and jam while ironing? 



> It's very good, a little odd though. You should have a look at Ghost Hound, from the same team, it's a bit more conventional than Lain, but still worthwhile. They have both 13 episodes, so you can't go wrong there.
> 
> Have you watched Battlestar Galactica ? I'm currently into season 2, you might like it I think, the characters are well written. It's very INFP like as well. :th_wink:
> 
> Thanks for the insightful conversation !


Okay! I will take a look at Ghost Hound too once I’ve … caught up on all my stuff somewhat. NOOO! I haven’t watched Battlestar Galactica!  I keep hearing about it though. Like… so many things to watch… ahhh! Hard to prioritise. I will ONE DAY, when I have more time (lol). 

I enjoy talking to you too!


----------



## Kyusaku (Mar 18, 2014)

@Reluctanine

You're crazy ! :laughing:

Yeah, taking one hour to iron out a bed sheet... I wanted to tear a new one. :th_woot:

I'm not quite the dancer though, I blame that on Se inferior. :tongue:

That's P types for you ! They don't get swayed easily by what happens around them, always finding alternative routes to continue doing whatever they like doing. That said, they have a harder time fitting in the "grander" scheme of things, because their core drive is mainly personal. As an INFJ it is really difficult to manage the influx of emotions coming from outside, so you feel your fate is intertwined with all the people around you. Which is why we are constantly in a push or pull movement with others, it can be a very frustrating situation, leading us to exert power over others.

Good luck, and thanks ! :kitteh:


----------

