# Instinct examples



## mistakenforstranger (Nov 11, 2012)

Instincts again, everyone's "favorite" subject! I thought it would be interesting/fun to see which celebs/historical figures/fictional examples you think are a certain instinct. I only want to discuss/debate instinct, not their type. Also feel free to post clips. Here's a few I thought of:

Sp/so - David Schwimmer, Gwyneth Paltrow, Fred Rogers, Mia Wasikowska, Michael Cera, Paul Simon, Natalie Portman, Michelle Obama, Lance Armstrong

Fictional: Paul Rudd's character in "I Love You, Man" so much so

Sp/sx - Vincent Van Gogh, Ingmar Bergman, Johnny Depp (maybe sx/sp), Stephen King, Ryan Gosling, Elliot Smith, Rooney Mara

Fictional: Amelie, Holden Caufield, Han Solo, Richie Tenenbaum (The Royal Tenenbaums), Chris McCandless (Into the Wild), Wolverine

So/sp - Oprah, Al Gore, Jon Stewart, Jerry Seinfeld (maybe sp/so), Conan O'Brien, Barack Obama, David Letterman, Hillary Clinton, Bill Maher, Sam Harris

Fictional: Charles Xavier (X-Men, in prequels he may be more so/sx)

So/sx - Stephen Colbert, Craig Ferguson, Graham Norton, Jennifer Lopez, Katy Perry, Will Smith, Andrew Garfield, John Mulaney, Robert Pattinson (maybe sx/so), Marina Diamandis, Tyler Oakley, Rebecca Black (lol)

Fictional: George Bailey (It's a Wonderful Life), Holly Golightly (Breakfast at Tiffany's), Michael Scott (The Office)

Sx/sp - Prince, The Weeknd, Rihanna, Scarlett Johansson, Christina Ricci, Michelle Pfeiffer, Clive Barker, Trent Reznor, Lars Von Trier, Kristen Stewart, Kate Bush

Fictional: Phantom of the Opera, Suzy Bishop (Moonrise Kingdom), Margot Tenenbaum (The Royal Tenenbaums)

Sx/so - Angelina Jolie, John Lennon, Russell Brand, Lady Gaga, Madonna, Kesha, Amanda Palmer, Chelsea Handler, Kanye West, Nicki Minaj, Elizabeth Wurtzel, Ewan McGregor, Iggy Pop, Courtney Love, Marc Maron

Fictional: Ariel (Little Mermaid), Anna Karenina, Tyler Durden (Fight Club), Gary King (The World's End), Romeo


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## enneathusiast (Dec 15, 2012)

On bold exhibit for the past two years:
Donald Trump's Self-Preservation instinct, sp/so


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## Full_fathom_4 (Jan 23, 2018)

oh come on! not to derail this, but the guy is so/sx. Every Sp bit you ever received was his type (the enthusiasm of control). He's a crap talkin', muck raking, friend ascertaining, buddy makin'...... so/sx


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## enneathusiast (Dec 15, 2012)

Full_fathom_4 said:


> oh come on! not to derail this, but the guy is so/sx. Every Sp bit you ever received was his type (the enthusiasm of control). He's a crap talkin', muck raking, friend ascertaining, buddy makin'...... so/sx


Apparently, you and I differ on what the instincts mean. Everything with him is about his own self-preservation. The social aspect is simply a means toward self-preservation.


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## richard nixon (Sep 14, 2017)

Donald Trump is sx/so. Sx/so are the most psychopathic instinctual stacking and Trump is definitely a psychopath by any measure. It's absurd to suggest that he's any instinctual stacking other than sx/so.


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## Full_fathom_4 (Jan 23, 2018)

enneathusiast said:


> Apparently, you and I differ on what the instincts mean. Everything with him is about his own self-preservation. The social aspect is simply a means toward self-preservation.


I doubt we differ that much, we're just looking at same aspects from a different angle. I would agree with sx/so before sp first, which again I see as a hallmark of simply being an E8. They're already disposed toward self-protective, avoiding vulnerabilities, etc. The rest of his personality finds delight being in the spotlight, publicly engaging his foes, or simply his own rhetoric. One could even argue that he is blind-spot disconnected from consciously realizing the extent of his own peril or the damage that he creates for himself. ie, political safety.


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## ClareBear (Aug 4, 2018)

What about Robin Williams Sx/So?


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## enneathusiast (Dec 15, 2012)

@*Full_fathom_4*
My last post says all I want to. I think we differ too much on how we understand the instincts and I don't want to derail the thread.

@*mistakenforstranger*
I agree with most in your list that I'm familiar with. Here are some exceptions.

Jerry Seinfeld sp/so - I think the sp tends to override the so when the choice needs to be made both in character and in real life.
Craig Ferguson sx/so - I've been watching most of his clips from his old talk show. He had a very intimate style of connecting with his guests and the way he spoke to the camera during his monologues.

There are others I might question but I haven't spent enough time with them to offer any opinion.

@*ClareBear*
sx/so seems to be the consensus on Robin Williams and I would agree. I just have trouble discerning that by watching him because he would tend to get in those manic states and go into entertainment mode even when being interviewed. He supposedly began that way early in life when he would try to make his mother laugh. I wonder if the sx often develops around a parental figure early in life with type serving that (e.g., sx7 trying to make the parent laugh or such).


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## Isa (Sep 13, 2018)

Thanks for sharing this perspective. Based on this I would say I relate most to the Sp/So category and think Jerry Seinfeld could be placed there also. He seems similar to that grouping and I really enjoy his rants.

On Trump I thought I read that Katherine Fauvre typed him as leading with the Self-preservation variant and she has a lot more experience than most at Enneagram typing.


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## Dangerose (Sep 30, 2014)

(sorry, these aren't going to be any kind of revelation, only familiar with so many celebrities and only confident about so many of their types, it's gonna be an annoying mixture of things :frustrating

Sp/so - Jon Richardson, David Mitchell, Aurora (the singer), Katie Melua, 

Fictional: Stannis Baratheon, 

Sp/sx - Lana del Rey (I've rethought it but I keep coming back to this anyway), Sean Lock, George Eliot, Emily Dickinson

Fictional: Jonathan Creek, Jorah Mormont, Jane Eyre

So/sp - Charles Dickens, Thomas Hardy, Stephen Fry, William Shakespeare,

Fictional: Sansa Stark, Tyrion Lannister, Margaery Tyrell

So/sx - Taylor Swift, Lin-Manuel Miranda, Jack Whitehall

Fictional: Leslie Knope, Anne Shirley

Sx/sp - Bernini

Fictional: Emily Byrd Starr, Thérèse Raquin

Sx/so - Mika, Luke Kelly, Jimmy Carr, Lee Mack

Fictional: Sam Malone, Jaime Lannister, Viserys Targaryen, Jean-Ralphio Saperstein, Jack Sparrow


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## mistakenforstranger (Nov 11, 2012)

enneathusiast said:


> @*Full_fathom_4*
> My last post says all I want to. I think we differ too much on how we understand the instincts and I don't want to derail the thread.


It wouldn't be derailing if you only discussed his instincts as opposed to his Enneagram type. Any discussion of instincts is welcome. I purposely didn't include Trump on the list because I've been conflicted about his type. I only included those that I felt confident in; although, I could be wrong about some of them. With Trump, I personally don't see sp/so. I don't see him amassing wealth for the purpose of security or stability. Compare him to his father, who I think is sp/so and was more about building a business from the ground-up, which Donald also inherited. Trump, on the other hand, seems to take a lot more risks, and failed at many of them too. They seem to me to have very different styles. I was leaning towards so/sp for Donald, but I think this is a good point from @*Full_fathom_4*. So/sx makes a lot of sense to me now that it's been brought forward:



> They're already disposed toward self-protective, avoiding vulnerabilities, etc. The rest of his personality finds delight being in the spotlight, publicly engaging his foes, or simply his own rhetoric. One could even argue that he is blind-spot disconnected from consciously realizing the extent of his own peril or the damage that he creates for himself. ie, political safety.





> @*mistakenforstranger*
> I agree with most in your list that I'm familiar with. Here are some exceptions.
> 
> Jerry Seinfeld sp/so - I think the sp tends to override the so when the choice needs to be made both in character and in real life.


Yes, that's one I wasn't sure of, and could see that being the case (as @*Isa* pointed out too). I only went with so/sp, because I think George (i.e. Larry David) seemed more sp/so in contrast. Jerry seems to have a larger social impact/awareness.



> Craig Ferguson sx/so - I've been watching most of his clips from his old talk show. He had a very intimate style of connecting with his guests and the way he spoke to the camera during his monologues.


Oh I was a big Craig Ferguson fan back in the day, but I don't know if I'd call his style of connecting/interviewing guests "intimate". I think he can have moments of that, but a lot of his interviews run like, guest mentions something, Craig asks about that, guest mentions another thing, Craig asks a question about that, which also speaks to how he improvised the whole show and his awesome Ne. It just felt like he stayed on the surface with a lot of his line of questioning. I think Russell Brand is a sx/so 7 (as opposed to Craig's so/sx 7) and there's a noticeable seductiveness in Brand. Also, Craig did that whole thing about becoming an American citizen and took a lot of pride in that, that made me think he also leads with Social.








> There are others I might question but I haven't spent enough time with them to offer any opinion.


That's fine and I appreciate the feedback. If you have any others to add yourself that you see as examples, please do so!



> @*ClareBear*
> sx/so seems to be the consensus on Robin Williams and I would agree. I just have trouble discerning that by watching him because he would tend to get in those manic states and go into entertainment mode even when being interviewed. He supposedly began that way early in life when he would try to make his mother laugh. *I wonder if the sx often develops around a parental figure early in life with type serving that *(e.g., sx7 trying to make the parent laugh or such).


:thinking2: Is that a pattern you've seen in other types with sx, or something you haven't seen in other instincts?


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## enneathusiast (Dec 15, 2012)

mistakenforstranger said:


> With Trump, I personally don't see sp/so. *I don't see him amassing wealth for the purpose of security or stability*....Trump, on the other hand, seems to take a lot more risks, and failed at many of them too. They seem to me to have very different styles. I was leaning towards so/sp for Donald, but I think this is a good point from @*Full_fathom_4*. So/sx makes a lot of sense to me now that it's been brought forward:


The bold is an example of why I say my interpretation of sp seems to differ from many people on this forum. I think just as the sexual instinct isn't simply about sex, the self-preservation instinct isn't simply about security. It's more broadly about preserving self autonomy and self-interests.

Watching the presidential election, my first guess was Trump as so/sp. Slowly and surely, as he revealed who he was on the job, it became obvious that everything centered around his self-interests and not social interests or consensus. Although he and Obama are different types, much of their differences on the job can also be seen in terms of Obama's so/sp stacking and Trump's sp/so. 




mistakenforstranger said:


> Yes, that's one I wasn't sure of, and could see that being the case (as @*Isa* pointed out too). I only went with so/sp, because I think George (i.e. Larry David) seemed more sp/so in contrast. Jerry seems to have a larger social impact/awareness.


I think you'd see it more if you looked at Larry David in Curb Your Enthusiasm instead of looking at the George character in Seinfeld. The Larry character is actually more like the Jerry character in looking at social norms vs. the individual.



mistakenforstranger said:


> Oh I was a big Craig Ferguson fan back in the day, but I don't know if I'd call his style of connecting/interviewing guests "intimate".


I think it's most obvious form on the show was the flirting. Do a YouTube search for "craig ferguson flirt" and you'll see dozens of clips listed. He was notably different from other late night hosts in that regard.

After he left the Late Late show he did a YouTube series with his wife called "Couple Thinkers" where you can see him when he's not in front of the audience. There are also some of the Late Late Shows where he wasn't in front of an audience in host mode (the Mila Kunis episode in Scotland comes to mind).



mistakenforstranger said:


> :thinking2: Is that a pattern you've seen in other types with sx, or something you haven't seen in other instincts?


I remember as a kid, I would research things that my mother would have questions or concerns about (type 6). I think that was a big influence on how the sx5 mechanism got activated in me. I've noticed with other types there can be something similar except it has to do with whatever the type has to offer and the domain that the instinct serves.

I think our dominant type and dominant instinct form together to offer something that's useful or desirous in early life. There's a sense of fulfillment or completeness of who we are when we find an environment where that can be applied later in life.


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## Dangerose (Sep 30, 2014)

enneathusiast said:


> I think you'd see it more if you looked at Larry David in Curb Your Enthusiasm instead of looking at the George character in Seinfeld. The Larry character is actually more like the Jerry character in looking at social norms vs. the individual.


To me the Larry character is clearly sp-first, to be fair only watched about a season (on airplanes...)

like... :laughing:


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## Dare (Nov 8, 2016)

Agreeing with Enneathusiast re Trump. I'm not into politics but you still hear/see the odd thing anyway. When my friend showed me the video with Trump turned cat pushing things away, I immediately suspected he might be sp:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lnu9vTSLMXo

Giving it some thought, he's a clear case of sp/so to me. The 'playboy' & lust aspect to him comes from 7 & 8 influences (respectively). I know OP wants us to stay out of subtypes for this discussion but the sp 7 description by Beatrice Chestnut practically screams 'Trump' (I'm not saying he's a 7, just referring to the influence -- Trump reeks of being a 'triple assertive' in tritype). I think others see this hedonism combined with his financial desire as sx. It's interesting how sx is 'softer' than sp with 7/8 where in other types such as 5 it's the inverse. 

I noticed Ocean Moonshine also put Trump as a sp/so:

* *




sp/soc
This type is generally private and reserved, and especially serious and practical minded in their focus to gain material security and in making useful connections that support their goals. When they do form a connection, loyalty is very important to them and they will not hesitate to end a relationship on grounds of disloyalty. This type may lack a certain degree of interpersonal warmth which can give the impression of coldness or disinterest in others, even a sense of selfishness. May be drawn to groups that attract like minded individuals, as in business clubs or volunteer organizations *[or owning golf clubs?]* where a shared professional culture can facilitate social bonds. They tend to live conservatively and dress in an inconspicuously appropriate fashion befitting their status in life. May have a characteristically blunt and direct style of communication that can take others some getting used to. They are particularly strong in matters of commitment and sacrifice, and enjoy being the benefactors in assisting society’s practical needs.

Motivation: to attain a position of material and societal security.

Familiar Roles: the businessperson, the responsible citizen, the pillar of society.

Examples: Bill Gates, *Donald Trump*, Martha Stewart, Harrison Ford

https://oceanmoonshine9.wordpress.com/type-stackings/




I don't find it hard to relate Trump to a standard sp description, like the one below (from http://enneasite.com/instinctual-variants/ ). He's all about finances and the next 'deal'. From what little I've seen, his version of being President appears to be more self serving empire building than earnest leader (his soc instinct is in service of his dominant sp). I recall something about him not doing something with his personal finances he was meant to (to avoid conflict of interest) when he first became President -- I have no idea how sp could be seen as his blind spot:


* *




SP): This Instinct’s “eye” habitually lands on the various conditions of the physical self — ‘me’. Concerns here include shelter, food, attention on one’s own health *and finances*. And the *immediate conditions of the tactile environment [including things too close apparently, lol]* (hot/cold, light/dark, dry/humid, clean/dirty, quiet/loud, etc), which, for some people, can translate to prominent perceptions about the emotional charge or tone of a given space [like making your living room out of gold?], the intangibles of a setting: inviting/disturbing, familiar/haunting, enticing/disquieting. SP-dominant people are often those who put much attention into the principles animating their overall day-to-day way-of-life. On some level, there’s a tendency to unconsciously monitor their gauges closely, referencing back into themselves, weighing how much energy or time or money is being expended in any given action/process or interaction with others. “How much time and energy is this interaction, right now, worth to me?” *Much value can also be placed on cultivating resources* – money, tools (of all kinds), time, practical know-how, material provisions and objects of various kinds for various purposes, etc. – *stockpiling for future expenditure in service of survival and/or comfort. Particular worth is placed on ‘getting things done’ and building or acquiring things that will last.*












Lastly, I see no sx in him. I'd be curious to know what specific sx qualities others see in Trump.

---> I just did a quick google check to try to find the name of that financial conflict of interest. I had no idea I was going to find a long list. That's extremely unethical behavior: SP all the way -- no soc dominant would do that and no sp blind would either (I'm not suggesting all sp would behave like that, just that soc as a group are less likely to focus on self above society, especially with the status of President in play). I see no sx in Trump which leaves only sp/so. Descriptions match.


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## enneathusiast (Dec 15, 2012)

Nissa Nissa said:


> To me the Larry character is clearly sp-first, to be fair only watched about a season (on airplanes...)
> 
> like... :laughing:


I'm hoping you didn't misinterpret what I was saying in my last post. I think both Larry and Jerry are sp-first. 

What I meant in bringing up the social is that their character's sp often stands juxtaposed to the social norms or expectations (sp/so), often coming out as how people should behave according to those norms. But that could also have to do with a type 1 influence.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

enneathusiast said:


> On bold exhibit for the past two years:
> Donald Trump's Self-Preservation instinct, sp/so


You sure about that? He seems way too concerned with his standing with everyone else. He seems to care way to much what other people think about him. He's very ego-centric (narcissistic). He loves an audience (look at his rallies). He seems to crave attention (even if it is negative). I would have pegged him as So/Sp, if not So/Sx.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

ClareBear said:


> What about Robin Williams Sx/So?


7w6 749 So/Sx, ENFP. He really needed an audience to validate him. One person could only do it for him so long before he felt a strong need to perform in front of others. He almost didn't know what to do with himself alone. He would light up like a sun in front of a crowd. It was an HBO documentary that made me see this.

Robin Williams: Come Inside My Mind


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## enneathusiast (Dec 15, 2012)

tanstaafl28 said:


> You sure about that? He seems way too concerned with his standing with everyone else. He seems to care way to much what other people think about him. He's very ego-centric (narcissistic). He loves an audience (look at his rallies). He seems to crave attention (even if it is negative). I would have pegged him as So/Sp, if not So/Sx.


You seem to be equating narcissism with the social instinct. If that's how you interpret the social instinct then so be it. I interpret it differently. I see social more as participation, belonging, inclusion, etc. than I do being the center of attention. The center of attention thing is all about me. It's really self-serving rather than serving the social good.

I've said it before on the forum that I think the 2nd instinct serves the 1st instinct. The social domain for Trump provides narcissistic support for the self (sp/so). To go the other way (so/sp) would involve sacrificing the self over to the greater social good when healthy (Martin Luther King, Jr. as so/sp 8 comes to mind).


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## ClareBear (Aug 4, 2018)

Yeah I have heard that from people who knew him well and worked with him that he needed an audience even if it was two people. One person in the room wit him he could be more withdrawn.


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## Dangerose (Sep 30, 2014)

enneathusiast said:


> I'm hoping you didn't misinterpret what I was saying in my last post. I think both Larry and Jerry are sp-first.
> 
> What I meant in bringing up the social is that their character's sp often stands juxtaposed to the social norms or expectations (sp/so), often coming out as how people should behave according to those norms. But that could also have to do with a type 1 influence.


Well, I did misinterpret so there :tongue:

(honestly I read through it like ten times going through a range of interpretations and finally decided you must have meant what I thought...)

got it, makes sense))


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