# INTJ or ENTJ? Please help.



## NTJ (Sep 12, 2015)

Mikhail said:


> Whatever you like? No limitations?
> 
> Any exceptions to that?
> 
> ...


I want no limitations. 

I never factor other people's views into my decisions, unless it improve my decision in some way or another. By improve, I mean have a better result.

I am unsure if I am different from other people...but all I know for sure is that I want to be an individual. It's important that I have my own tactics and strategy because I am living my life, not someone else's.

If I somehow have the same approach as everyone else, then I would have learned something new about the world. I would then be able to relate to people much more. As it is, I do not relate to people very well or the way they approach problems.

A specific person would be a female I like. I want to figure out what is behind their actions and why they do it. I want to know if I mean something to them or not. This stems from my want to be important, I guess. The favorite type of person that I like to analyze usually are successful people.

Sometimes I will give meaning to things that do not have meaning to other people, but to me they are a part of the bigger picture. It can be a small detail that appears irrelevant to someone else, but to me, it's apart of the bigger picture.

I am not saying if the CEO gets ill the company shuts down. What I'm saying is, every position is important. If the CEO is sick, they will have a backup to temporarily replace his position. Otherwise, the company would not as effective as it previously was.

I do not believe they are immoral. I don't believe in immoral/moral actions, as every person has their own individual interpretation of morals. According to me, if you aren't hurting anybody, then sure it's fine.

Well I was being vague. The reason it's manufactured in Afghanistan would be because the opium poppy farms can operate in peace without threat of policing. They don't get it straight to the Netherlands, there's many smaller things the traffickers must do to get in there. They must smuggle the heroin across the borders into neighboring countries and find creative ways of hiding the heroin into trucks or other transport vehicles. It gets to the Netherlands via smuggling...which each druglord has his own way of doing it! There's no way I could find out the specifics here, they're generally very hard to find out. You get the general idea though. They go to the Netherlands because of the Rotterdam port. It's a very large port where hiding drugs in easier which gives the traffickers the infrastructure to transport it across oceans. The Netherlands is just one of the ports they target, it's an example. I live in the United States.

I think it interrupts the system because the heroin can no longer be distributed. Sure, in Iran, it would still exist. The druglords target markets (USA,Europe) would no longer be reached due to the fault in distribution. 

Over time, new traffickers will rise to fill the hole in the system. Before that though, heroin won't be distributed and many markets will be dry.

I think God programmed the world because there is a truth to everything. There's a reason humans act the way they do, there's a reason nature is so perfect and complex. A human's brain is like a hyperadvanced computer, which is amazing. You see humans designing computers to be like the creators, in a way. What if, God designed the world to represent the world he is from? 

The possibility is definitely there. God may not exist. I acknowledge the possibility that he isn't real. No one can prove whether he is real or not, but we can speak with possibilities. ONE of those possibilities has to be correct, right? Might as well believe in whatever your interpretation is. Everyone has their own unique one.

Well, I can't predict the future. I do know humans have a desire to be greater then they are, and if we have computers that can do that, why not make the computers improve you? I'm sure some humans will find this idea attractive and will pursue it, when the time comes.


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## NTJ (Sep 12, 2015)

Garnet said:


> Sure, but later.
> 
> I will say that this can implies ISTJ even more though, because introverted sensors do not take everything in all at once so much as take everything in through their own filters and at their own pace.
> 
> An ISTJ can easily and will often walk into a party and still be wrapped up in the experience that they want to have at said party, for example - I said that ISTJ experiences in an incredibly private and disconnected way after all. Maybe they walk into a party and are oblivious to their surroundings because they are still thinking about what they _want_ to do and not what they _are_ doing. ISTP will already have seen everything and long since found what interests them most.


Aren't sensors supposed to have a firm ground on reality?


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## Mikhail (Aug 26, 2015)

@NTJ
You are ENTP, son. I couldn't be bothered writing the explanations why. I probably wouldn't be able to write everything that went into it. I can just say that you are displaying a lot of ENTP traits and that you remind me of a number of ENTPs that I know or have known personally and online. The way your mind works, it can't be any more ... ENTPish.


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## NTJ (Sep 12, 2015)

Mikhail said:


> @NTJ
> You are ENTP, son. I couldn't be bothered writing the explanations why. I probably wouldn't be able to write everything that went into it. I can just say that you are displaying a lot of ENTP traits and that you remind me of a number of ENTPs that I know or have known personally and online. The way your mind works, it can't be any more ... ENTPish.


That's interesting...I've thought that I could possibly be a ENTP in the past. I don't know though, I am not a very good communicator.


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## Mikhail (Aug 26, 2015)

NTJ said:


> That's interesting...I've thought that I could possibly be a ENTP in the past. I don't know though, *I am not a very good communicator.*


What does this have to do with anything?


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## with water (Aug 13, 2014)

This thread is a train wreck.


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## NTJ (Sep 12, 2015)

Mikhail said:


> What does this have to do with anything?


ENTPs are usually very charismatic and charming. Steve Jobs was an ENTP- look at his style of speaking. Also, ENTPs are not good with money. The opposite is the case with me, I speak in a style similar to ENTJs and I am very good with money. I ruled out the possibility of me being an ENTP when I met one in real life. I am nothing like them in person.


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## Mikhail (Aug 26, 2015)

NTJ said:


> ENTPs are usually very charismatic and charming. Steve Jobs was an ENTP- look at his style of speaking.


Steve Jobs wasn't a schoolboy. 


> Also, ENTPs are not good with money.


Yea, and Steve Jobs is a good example of that, sure. Seriously, where did you take that? And what does it even mean?


> I speak in a style similar to ENTJs


No, you don't.


> I ruled out the possibility of me being an ENTP when I met one in real life. I am nothing like them in person.


That's assuming you typed them correctly. Seeing that you couldn't even type yourself yet, that's doubtful.


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## nautilus_5 (Sep 9, 2015)

Sir, you are not an N. You seem to have a deep misunderstanding of type. Ns are not necessarily oblivious to their surroundings--extroverted Ns rarely are. Introverted Sensors do tend to be, though. The main reason you are not an N is your desire for money--this is 100% an S trait. Ns, especially rationals, tend to see money as unimportant beyond basic necessities such as food, clothing, etc. We live in the realm of ideas, and view such materialistic concerns as money to be absurd, a waste of time, and potentially the root of all evil.

An N, especially an NT, would not be so defensive and take things so personally. You asked a question and you got honest answers. If you don't like those answers, that's your problem.


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## NTJ (Sep 12, 2015)

Mikhail said:


> Steve Jobs wasn't a schoolboy.
> 
> Yea, and Steve Jobs is a good example of that, sure. Seriously, where did you take that? And what does it even mean?
> 
> ...


In REAL life, yes, I speak like ENTJs. Just speaking.

ENTPs have a hard time dealing with money. Look at the average salary chart by MBTI types. ENTPs rank the second lowest. That doesn't make any sense for me, as I am good with money for the most part.

Well the person told me he was an ENTP, so I assumed it was true.


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## NTJ (Sep 12, 2015)

nautilus_5 said:


> Sir, you are not an N. You seem to have a deep misunderstanding of type. Ns are not necessarily oblivious to their surroundings--extroverted Ns rarely are. Introverted Sensors do tend to be, though. The main reason you are not an N is your desire for money--this is 100% an S trait. Ns, especially rationals, tend to see money as unimportant beyond basic necessities such as food, clothing, etc. We live in the realm of ideas, and view such materialistic concerns as money to be absurd, a waste of time, and potentially the root of all evil.
> 
> An N, especially an NT, would not be so defensive and take things so personally. You asked a question and you got honest answers. If you don't like those answers, that's your problem.


I view money as what moves the world. How on earth does wanting to have money = being a sensor?


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## nautilus_5 (Sep 9, 2015)

NTJ said:


> In REAL life, yes, I speak like ENTJs. Just speaking.
> 
> ENTPs have a hard time dealing with money. Look at the average salary chart by MBTI types. ENTPs rank the second lowest. That doesn't make any sense for me, as I am good with money for the most part.
> 
> Well the person told me he was an ENTP, so I assumed it was true.


I'm assuming you are thinking of the salary chart that put ENTJs at #1 and INFPs last. There is another thread on here ripping that study apart. The sample size was small and the test used was fundamentally flawed. It typed ESTJs as ENTJs. ESTJs are businessmen, ENTJs are politicians.


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## nautilus_5 (Sep 9, 2015)

NTJ said:


> I view money as what moves the world. How on earth does wanting to have money = being a sensor?



If you read my post, you would see i already answered that question. Materialism = S. And whether or not money moves the world has nothing to do with _wanting_ money. Of course it moves the world, that doesn't mean it should.


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## NTJ (Sep 12, 2015)

nautilus_5 said:


> If you read my post, you would see i already answered that question. Materialism = S. And whether or not money moves the world has nothing to do with _wanting_ money. Of course it moves the world, that doesn't mean it should.


I do not desire materials... I desire money for the sheer fact that I can live a comfortable life because of it. Not to buy houses and cars, I don't care about those things. I yearn for a large fortune so I can have no limitations on what I want to do in life.


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## nautilus_5 (Sep 9, 2015)

NTJ said:


> I do not desire materials... I desire money for the sheer fact that I can live a comfortable life because of it. Not to buy houses and cars, I don't care about those things. I yearn for a large fortune so I can have no limitations on what I want to do in life.


That's a form of materialism. For NTs, a comfortable life has nothing to do with money. I'm not saying you are wrong in your desire for money, just that it means you're a sensor. There is nothing wrong with being a sensor. ISTJs in particular are very smart and interesting people.


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## Mikhail (Aug 26, 2015)

NTJ said:


> In REAL life, yes, I speak like ENTJs. Just speaking.


You can't. You don't think like ENTJ. And what does it mean? What's the ENTJ style of speaking in your mind?


> ENTPs have a hard time dealing with money. Look at the average salary chart by MBTI types. ENTPs rank the second lowest. That doesn't make any sense for me, as I am good with money for the most part.


nautilus_5 have already answered that.


> Well the person told me he was an ENTP, so I assumed it was true.


..., welcome to MBTI.

Hell, even your stubbornness is very ENTP. Maybe I shouldn't even try and let you bang your head against a wall instead.


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## NTJ (Sep 12, 2015)

nautilus_5 said:


> That's a form of materialism. For NTs, a comfortable life has nothing to do with money. I'm not saying you are wrong in your desire for money, just that it means you're a sensor. There is nothing wrong with being a sensor. ISTJs in particular are very smart and interesting people.


So you know every single NT on the entire planet's interpretation of a comfortable life? Interesting.

So anyone who desires money is a sensor? That's also an interesting point you make. How ridiculous does that sound?


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## NTJ (Sep 12, 2015)

Mikhail said:


> You can't. You don't think like ENTJ. And what does it mean? What's the ENTJ style of speaking in your mind?
> 
> nautilus_5 have already answered that.
> 
> ...


Well, it's hard for me to fully accept I am one type from one person. People are saying I'm an ISTJ, ISTP, ENTP, ESTP, even INTJ. How am I supposed to know which one is fully correct at this point?


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## nautilus_5 (Sep 9, 2015)

NTJ said:


> So you're you know every single NT on the entire planet's interpretation of a comfortable life? Interesting.
> 
> So anyone who desires money is a sensor? That's also an interesting point you make. How ridiculous does that sound?


If you look back you will see I said generally speaking. And you don't just desire money, you desire a "fortune." Your manner of thinking, writing, life goals, and social behavior all point toward S. 

MBTI Foundation's description of a sensor:

Paying attention to physical reality, what I see, hear, touch, taste, and smell. I'm concerned with what is actual, present, current, and real. I notice facts and I remember details that are important to me. I like to see the practical use of things and learn best when I see how to use what I'm learning. Experience speaks to me louder than words.

The following statements generally apply to me:
I remember events as snapshots of what actually happened.
I solve problems by working through facts until I understand the problem.
I am pragmatic and look to the "bottom line."
I start with facts and then form a big picture.
I trust experience first and trust words and symbols less.
Sometimes I pay so much attention to facts, either present or past, that I miss new possibilities.

"Bottom line" = sensor. 

You seem to be deeply offended. Perhaps you have bought in to the all-too-popular notion that Ns are necessarily smarter/better than Ss. This is untrue. ISTJ/ISTP tend to be quite smart, but in a more practical manner than Ns. Money = practical concern.


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## nautilus_5 (Sep 9, 2015)

NTJ said:


> Well, it's hard for me to fully accept I am one type from one person. People are saying I'm an ISTJ, ISTP, ENTP, ESTP, even INTJ. How am I supposed to know which one is fully correct at this point?



You read the descriptions *objectively* and choose which best fits you. You are not currently being objective (another S trait). Also, look at the cognitive functions--this is the best way to type oneself. This thread should help to point you in the right direction.


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## Mikhail (Aug 26, 2015)

NTJ said:


> Well, it's hard for me to fully accept I am one type from one person. People are saying I'm an ISTJ, ISTP, ENTP, ESTP, even INTJ. How am I supposed to know which one is fully correct at this point?


That's a very good question. Welcome to MBTI again. There is a number of proper ENTPs hanging around on this forum. ENTPness is a good example. Study the MBTI theory carefully, see how it can apply to you. Look into Socionics, that's a jungian typology (similar to MBTI) created by an ENTP. It can provide you an extra perspective and insight.
That's not a quick and easy process.


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## NTJ (Sep 12, 2015)

Mikhail said:


> That's a very good question. Welcome to MBTI again. There is a number of proper ENTPs hanging around on this forum. ENTPness is a good example. Study the MBTI theory carefully, see how it can apply to you. Look into Socionics, that's a jungian typology (similar to MBTI) created by an ENTP. It can provide you an extra perspective and insight.
> That's not a quick and easy process.


Should I just ignore the fact that I've scored as a xNTJ for my entire life?

I took a test for a career counselor and received the ENTJ result when I was young. I always thought that was me.


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## nautilus_5 (Sep 9, 2015)

NTJ said:


> Should I just ignore the fact that I've scored as a xNTJ for my entire life?
> 
> I took a test for a career counselor and received the ENTJ result when I was young. I always thought that was me.


And I got INFJ as a kid. Children are extremely hard to type as their cognitive functions are still developing. Also, as I've posted elsewhere, no psychologist worth their salt would say that the test is the end-all-be-all indicator of type--it is simply a way to point you toward possible answers. You have to read through and research the most likely types, and objectively determine which fits you best.


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## NTJ (Sep 12, 2015)

nautilus_5 said:


> And I got INFJ as a kid. Children are extremely hard to type as their cognitive functions are still developing. Also, as I've posted elsewhere, no psychologist worth their salt would say that the test is the end-all-be-all indicator of type--it is simply a way to point you toward possible answers. You have to read through and research the most likely types, and objectively determine which fits you best.


Thanks for your insight. I do not relate with any of the S-types in the slightest. The ones I relate with the most are ENTJ, INTJ, or ENTP. Any others just do not describe me at all. I'm in a rut here, I'm very confused. I might sound like a S because I am trying to give as much detail as possible so people will know more about me before typing me.


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## nautilus_5 (Sep 9, 2015)

NTJ said:


> Thanks for your insight. I do not relate with any of the S-types in the slightest. The ones I relate with the most are ENTJ, INTJ, or ENTP. Any others just do not describe me at all. I'm in a rut here, I'm very confused. I might sound like a S because I am trying to give as much detail as possible so people will know more about me before typing me.


I would suggest you at least do some research on ISTP/ISTJ/ESTJ. You may very well be N, but that appears very doubtful. Remember, preferences are a continuum--I would safely bet that whether you are N or S, it is only a slight preference, and the same for I/E--I'm still unsure of which of these you are. Perhaps you are an "outgoing introvert" such as myself? I dislike large parties/drinking, but I do seek out social interaction. I just need to recover alone afterwards.


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## Mikhail (Aug 26, 2015)

NTJ said:


> Thanks for your insight. I do not relate with any of the S-types in the slightest. The ones I relate with the most are ENTJ, INTJ, or ENTP. Any others just do not describe me at all. *I'm in a rut here, I'm very confused.* I might sound like a S because I am trying to give as much detail as possible so people will know more about me before typing me.


That's typical. It's hard to find a sturdy basis in MBTI. I was lucky enough to be typed initially by my sister before I was able to develop my own misconceptions. 10 years later I figured out she was wrong in one letter, it's actually E instead of I. Not a big mistake, and easily excusable for ENTJs.


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## NTJ (Sep 12, 2015)

nautilus_5 said:


> I would suggest you at least do some research on ISTP/ISTJ/ESTJ. You may very well be N, but that appears very doubtful. Remember, preferences are a continuum--I would safely bet that whether you are N or S, it is only a slight preference, and the same for I/E--I'm still unsure of which of these you are. Perhaps you are an "outgoing introvert" such as myself? I dislike large parties/drinking, but I do seek out social interaction. I just need to recover alone afterwards.


I've done research on ISTJ/ISTP/ESTJs. I have nothing in common with those types. 

After reading your posts, I've changed my view on money itself. I think you are right, it is materialistic. What I really want, is achievement. I want to achieve something big. I want to change the world in a way.


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## NTJ (Sep 12, 2015)

Mikhail said:


> That's typical. It's hard to find a sturdy basis in MBTI. I was lucky enough to be typed initially by my sister before I was able to develop my own misconceptions. 10 years later I figured out she was wrong in one letter, it's actually E instead of I. Not a big mistake, and easily excusable for ENTJs.


What type do you consider yourself? If you are a ENTJ, can you tell me about yourself?


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## nautilus_5 (Sep 9, 2015)

NTJ said:


> I've done research on ISTJ/ISTP/ESTJs. I have nothing in common with those types.
> 
> After reading your posts, I've changed my view on money itself. I think you are right, it is materialistic. What I really want, is achievement. I want to achieve something big. I want to change the world in a way.


This certainly fits more with N. If this is correct, I would have to go with ENTJ, as your social patterns seem to indicate that INTJ is unlikely. I'm not sure about ENTP--perhaps.


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## Mikhail (Aug 26, 2015)

NTJ said:


> What type do you consider yourself? If you are a ENTJ, can you tell me about yourself?


I don't want to. I prefer to remain as anonymous as possible on the internet.


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## NTJ (Sep 12, 2015)

Mikhail said:


> I don't want to. I prefer to remain as anonymous as possible on the internet.


You are very similar to my INTJ friend. He wants to be as private as possible at all times.


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## NTJ (Sep 12, 2015)

nautilus_5 said:


> This certainly fits more with N. If this is correct, I would have to go with ENTJ, as your social patterns seem to indicate that INTJ is unlikely. I'm not sure about ENTP--perhaps.


That would make sense. I do tend to lead my group of friends. I enjoy leadership as well.

Something I've observed in social matters is that S-types tend to get along with eachother, and N-types get along with eachother. I've then observed that opposites preferences (with S types being paired with S types, N with N) (ENTJ+INFP) get along with eachother the best. I've had a best friend for 7 years, and he's an INFP so ENTJ makes the most sense in my head.


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## Mikhail (Aug 26, 2015)

NTJ said:


> You are very similar to my INTJ friend. He wants to be as private as possible at all times.


That's not really about being private. That's more about compartmentalizing your life and not leaving too big of a trail so that there would be less chance for it to bite you later in unexpected ways.


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## NTJ (Sep 12, 2015)

Mikhail said:


> That's not really about being private. That's more about compartmentalizing your life and not leaving too big of a trail so that there would be less chance for it to bite you later in unexpected ways.


Still fits the "privacy" thing. My INTJ friend does the same thing on the internet.


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## allisreal (Mar 23, 2010)

I would say INTJ. 
@NTJ I have a feeling you'd actually relate a lot to this description. Much of the information you provided was reminiscent of it. 

INTJ Description - CelebrityTypes.com

ISTJs tend to be more moderate, meticulous, and empirical with regard to the information they accept, jumping less quickly onto insights others would see as unsupported.


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## nautilus_5 (Sep 9, 2015)

NTJ said:


> That would make sense. I do tend to lead my group of friends. I enjoy leadership as well.
> 
> Something I've observed in social matters is that S-types tend to get along with eachother, and N-types get along with eachother. I've then observed that opposites preferences (with S types being paired with S types, N with N) (ENTJ+INFP) get along with each other the best. I've had a best friend for 7 years, and he's an INFP so ENTJ makes the most sense in my head.


Yes, Jung believed the N/S preference to be the only nonnegotiable one in close long-term relationships. All other differences people could learn to live with. I do have some S friends though, but not as close, and they communicate very differently.


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## NTJ (Sep 12, 2015)

allisreal said:


> I would say INTJ.
> @NTJ I have a feeling you'd actually relate a lot to this description. Much of the information you provided was reminiscent of it.
> 
> INTJ Description - CelebrityTypes.com
> ...


Thanks. Looking at that made me able to translate many behaviors I have that I knew existed into English. I can't describe most things about me, which is weird.


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## NTJ (Sep 12, 2015)

nautilus_5 said:


> Yes, Jung believed the N/S preference to be the only nonnegotiable one in close long-term relationships. All other differences people could learn to live with. I do have some S friends though, but not as close, and they communicate very differently.


Their style of communication generally irks me. I was just so surprised earlier that some people thought I was a S.


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## Lelu (Jun 1, 2015)

@NTJ I would suggest filling out one of the questionnaires on this forum, posting it here, and tag some of the more detailed posters on this thread. The best typers aren't going to look at what you're saying, but how you're saying it and trying to pinpoint your methodology and cognitive preference. The questionnaires are designed to reveal your thought process.

Also judging by some of your posts, I believe you may be using stereotypes as a measuring stick which will yield inaccuracies. Don't take any of this the wrong way, it is simply most beneficial that we all strive for absolute truth here.

I see a bit of Ti even, but your typings are going to be highly varied until we can be *shown *your cognitive process with consistency.


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## NTJ (Sep 12, 2015)

Lelu said:


> @NTJ I would suggest filling out one of the questionnaires on this forum, posting it here, and tag some of the more detailed posters on this thread. The best typers aren't going to look at what you're saying, but how you're saying it and trying to pinpoint your methodology and cognitive preference. The questionnaires are designed to reveal your thought process.
> 
> Also judging by some of your posts, I believe you may be using stereotypes as a measuring stick which will yield inaccuracies. Don't take any of this the wrong way, it is simply most beneficial that we all strive for absolute truth here.
> 
> I see a bit of Ti even, but I your typings are going to be highly varied until we can be *shown *your cognitive process.


I'll fill a questionnaire and make a new thread soon. Who should I tag?


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## Lelu (Jun 1, 2015)

NTJ said:


> I'll fill a questionnaire and make a new thread soon. Who should I tag?


I would tag Garnet, TheHammer, Nautilus_5, Mikhail, and anyone else who you think would be helpful. They were all willing to give it a go, and I'm sure they'd be fine with looking at something possibly more conclusive. 

I found the "Yet another questionnaire" thread to be the most helpful set of questions.


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## nautilus_5 (Sep 9, 2015)

NTJ said:


> Their style of communication generally irks me. I was just so surprised earlier that some people thought I was a S.


As @Lelu noted, you seem to be using stereotypes as the basis for your analysis, and this has already created some problems. I still believe you _may_ be an S, or at least a soft N, based on your writing/communication style. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this. Ss can be very intelligent, wonderful people, just as some Ns can be annoying idiots. All types are equal, a fact which many familiar with typology, myself included, all too often forget.

I'm assuming you're young and still in high school. You may be using MBTI as a way to understand yourself and explain possible difficulties you have with your peers. But remember that MBTI is simply an explanation of an individual's thought processes--it does not determine their intelligence or value. It is simply a sequence of four letters. Be mindful of this, and do not judge yourself or others based on their psychological preferences.


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## allisreal (Mar 23, 2010)

Garnet said:


> Sure, but later.
> 
> I will say that this can implies ISTJ even more though, because introverted sensors do not take everything in all at once so much as take everything in through their own filters and at their own pace.
> 
> An ISTJ can easily and will often walk into a party and still be wrapped up in the experience that they want to have at said party, for example - I said that ISTJ experiences in an incredibly private and disconnected way after all. Maybe they walk into a party and are oblivious to their surroundings because they are still thinking about what they _want_ to do and not what they _are_ doing. ISTP will already have seen everything and long since found what interests them most.


This takes the whole "subjective" Sensation formulation a little too far. Not being aware of your surroundings is definitely more related to inferior Se than than dominant Si. I find both Se and Si doms tend to be quite observant, the former moreso of the immediate reality and the latter moreso of established reality (things that have happened that will continue to happen). I'd Si type is the most thorough even when it comes to applying details they have deemed important in past situations to the current one.

Another common manifestation of inferior Se is over or under-indulgence in bodily activities, whether it be eating, drinking or sex which one could make the case he displays.


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