# MBTI and the four temperaments



## Eric B

emerald sea said:


> i'm INFJ but fit both the Melancholy-Phlegmatic and the Melancholy-Sanguine profiles.
> 
> once there was a thread in the INFJ forum that asked what we scored on the Four Temperaments test, and (if i recall correctly) some tested as pure Melancholy, some as Phlegmatic, some as Melancholy-Phlegmatic, some as Phlegmatic-Melancholy, and some as Melancholy-Sanguine.
> 
> more than likely enneatype plays a large role in this, with possible connections like this:
> 
> Melancholy - 1, 4, 5, 6 (analytical or intense)
> Sanguine - 2, 3, 7, 9 (charming or socially adept)
> Phlegmatic - 2, 7, 9 (positive or easygoing)
> Choleric - 1, 3, 4, 6, 8 (assertive or reactive)
> 
> and there may be some slight correspondence between some traits of each temperament and one of the cognitive functions:
> 
> Melancholy - Ti, Ni
> Sanguine - Fe, Se or maybe Ne
> Phlegmatic - Fi, Ne or maybe Se
> Choleric - Te, Si
> 
> (there is no direct correlation between temperament and enneagram type, or temperament and cognitive function, however - just some trait overlap...so the above charts are neither exact nor precise.)


 If you seem to be either Melancholy Phlegmatic or Melancholy Sanguine, then you too might be Melancholy Supine. I've explained how Supine is similar to both Melancholy and Phlegmatic, but it also has a lot in common with Sanguine, which is the same high "wanted" behavior, or need for interaction. Again, those other tests don't have Supine, so your Supine traits will likely be represented in similar temperaments.

So you too can try Supine in Control.

As for Enneagram, they might not correlate perfectly, but here's what I had proposed:








The correlation of David Boje supports it to some extent:
Myers-Briggs, XYZ Leadership and Team Roles by David M. Boje, Ph.D.

So your match is close. I would say:

Melancholy - 1, 4, *5*
Sanguine - 2, 3, *7*
Phlegmatic - 2, 4, *9* (and by the blends, 1 and 3 as well)
Choleric - 1, 3, *8* 
Supine - 2, 4, *6*

With the cognitive functions:

Melancholy - Si, Ni(dom.)
Sanguine - Se, Ne, Fe (dom. + S),
Phlegmatic, Supine - Fi, Fe 
Choleric - Te, Ni(aux)

Also, INTP's would be Phlegmatic Choleric or Supine Choleric, but the Phlegmatic or Supine tempers the Choleric, so that they (or the tests) often don't recognize it, and it sort of mellows down to Melancholy, so that's why INTP's often score as Phlegmatic Melancholy. Even the site Fig Hunter - Temperaments says *"Phlegmatic/Choleric people can mistake their temperaments for a melancholic blend, because this combination shares many things in common with the melancholic temperament." *Their Melancholy-Phlegmatic profile in the beginning might sound like INTP because it mentions "analytical", but that combo is also a bit more emotional than an INTP. (And Phlegmatic Melancholy sounds like a straight up ISFJ). Compare the Phlegmatic Choleric profile.


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## Liontiger

Hmm, ESFJ but I relate more to Phlegmatic/Melancholy than Sanguine/Melancholy. I'm also low on extraversion, so that may have something to do with it. I do fall under the correct enneatype (One) from @Eric B's graphic above  And the cognitive functions, for that matter.


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## Eric B

Liontiger said:


> Hmm, ESFJ but I relate more to Phlegmatic/Melancholy than Sanguine/Melancholy. I'm also low on extraversion, so that may have something to do with it. I do fall under the correct enneatype (One) from @_Eric B_'s graphic above  And the cognitive functions, for that matter.


 Perhaps you're an ambivert, meaning inbetween on the E/I scale (which is not represented in type, where you have to be one or the other). Does this one fit: 
Phlegmatic Sanguine in Inclusion (this would make you "Phlegmatic-Sanguine/Melancholy", and a less extroverted kind of ESFJ; the Melancholy is in the Control area, but it's Inclusion where the question lies. You can also try Phlegmatic Supine).


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## Liontiger

Eric B said:


> Perhaps you're an ambivert, meaning inbetween on the E/I scale (which is not represented in type, where you have to be one or the other). Does this one fit:
> Phlegmatic Sanguine in Inclusion (this would make you "Phlegmatic-Sanguine/Melancholy", and a less extroverted kind of ESFJ; the Melancholy is in the Control area, but it's Inclusion where the question lies. You can also try Phlegmatic Supine).


Wow, Phlegmatic Supine is nearly spot-on. Thanks for the suggestion


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## Obscure Reference

This is confusing... Wouldn't ESFJ be Sanguine/Choleric and ENTP be Melancholic Sanguine? NT to me appears to signify analysis and critical thinking (melancholy) rather than independence and focus on specific work (choleric), especially considering that ENTPs lead with high Ne.


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## Aryn2

Obscure Reference said:


> This is confusing... Wouldn't ESFJ be Sanguine/Choleric and ENTP be Melancholic Sanguine? NT to me appears to signify analysis and critical thinking (melancholy) rather than independence and focus on specific work (choleric), especially considering that ENTPs lead with high Ne.


Ne would be more of an indicator towards being choleric than melancholy. Melancholy is like, Ti, Fi, or Si. (Or arguably introverted functions in general) Melancholy as a temperament is like rainy day weather where the person is happy to drink coffee, read a book, and reflect on life's journey. This is a generalization and doesn't apply to everyone, obviously, but I thought it was an interesting and appropriate comparison.

Cholerics aren't just focused/independent. They're the "getter doners" of the world. 

I once had the temperaments described to me like this:

Sanguine - "Let's do it the fun way!"
Melancholy - "Let's do it the right way."
Choleric - "Let's do it MY way."
Phlegmatic - "Let's do it the easiest way?"


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## Obscure Reference

Aryn2 said:


> Ne would be more of an indicator towards being choleric than melancholy. Melancholy is like, Ti, Fi, or Si. (Or arguably introverted functions in general) Melancholy as a temperament is like rainy day weather where the person is happy to drink coffee, read a book, and reflect on life's journey. This is a generalization and doesn't apply to everyone, obviously, but I thought it was an interesting and appropriate comparison.
> 
> Cholerics aren't just focused/independent. They're the "getter doners" of the world.
> 
> I once had the temperaments described to me like this:
> 
> Sanguine - "Let's do it the fun way!"
> Melancholy - "Let's do it the right way."
> Choleric - "Let's do it MY way."
> Phlegmatic - "Let's do it the easiest way?"


ExxJ by its very nature is a very take command, get-it-done kind of attitude. It just depends on whether it's coach-like (ENFJ), controlling (ENTJ), teamwork-oriented supervisors (ESTJ) or a very "student-body president," work-hard-play-hard attitude (ESFJ). The J function in general implies choleric. In ESFJ's case, the SF in conjunction with extroversion forms the base for their sanguine temperament.
ExxP, on the other hand, seems like the plaster mold for sanguine. Extroverted-- storyteller, entertainer, talker extraordinaire, while the disorganized Perciever lends itself to the chaotic, unorganized, wild element of the sanguine.
I stand by NT being logical analysis. "Getting it done" is SJ. As many many many NTPs here will attest, especially ENTPs, they have tons of ideas but lots of trouble following through, which to me SCREAMS some combination of over-analytical, perfectionist melancholy with the messy and all-talk, no-drive sanguine. ENTP is sanguine-melancholy. Anyone thinking otherwise is kind of silly.


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## LadyO.W.BernieBro

^ l can't see ENTP completely in any of these and l think there may be too many overlaps to make a direct comparison with the MBTI temperaments, but l see that misunderstanding of ENTP a lot.

l don't know where it comes from, there is an idea of Ne as a ''bossy'' function.


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## Obscure Reference

Ne? The free-associating, divergent thinking function? I would see Ni as more bossy, seeing as it makes less connections and focuses on one object.
I'm with you, Ne as bossy makes no sense


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## Eric B

Obscure Reference said:


> This is confusing... Wouldn't ESFJ be Sanguine/Choleric and ENTP be Melancholic Sanguine? NT to me appears to signify analysis and critical thinking (melancholy) rather than independence and focus on specific work (choleric), especially considering that ENTPs lead with high Ne.





Obscure Reference said:


> ExxJ by its very nature is a very take command, get-it-done kind of attitude. It just depends on whether it's coach-like (ENFJ), controlling (ENTJ), teamwork-oriented supervisors (ESTJ) or a very "student-body president," work-hard-play-hard attitude (ESFJ). The J function in general implies choleric. In ESFJ's case, the SF in conjunction with extroversion forms the base for their sanguine temperament.
> ExxP, on the other hand, seems like the plaster mold for sanguine. Extroverted-- storyteller, entertainer, talker extraordinaire, while the disorganized Perciever lends itself to the chaotic, unorganized, wild element of the sanguine.
> I stand by NT being logical analysis. "Getting it done" is SJ. As many many many NTPs here will attest, especially ENTPs, they have tons of ideas but lots of trouble following through, which to me SCREAMS some combination of over-analytical, perfectionist melancholy with the messy and all-talk, no-drive sanguine. ENTP is sanguine-melancholy. Anyone thinking otherwise is kind of silly.


The problem is that there are two levels of temperament embodied in type. Keirsey's temperaments (called "conative", meaning dealing with action), and the Interaction Styles, which are the more classic "social" (affective) temperaments. NT is conative, and so deals with action or leadership. It is pragmatic and structure focused, which corresponds to the classical "aggressive and task-focused", which is what defined Choleric ("hot/dry"). Hence, as Aryn2 said, the "go-getters/doers" of the world.
The structure focus is what provides "independence" for both the SJ and NT alike. I link it to something called "low Wanted Control", meaning they are very independent and have a strict criteria for accepting control from others. For the SJ, it is something concrete like an institution, rules, etc. and for the NT, it is abstract, like their plans or ideas. (Hence both will 
"focus on specific work" and "getting it done" i.e. "tasks", though in their own way).

On the social level, a Melancholy is reserved and task-focused, and that's where that whole "analysis and critical thinking" profile comes from. But on the social level, Melancholy is IST or INJ (not SJ). (INTP is a different Interaction Style —actually more aligned with three of the IF's, but the I + T will still give off that analytical "Melancholic" social image).

But SJ s the _conative_ Melancholy, and that covers some of the Melancholy's other well known traits, such as the need for familiarity and organization. (So ISTJ will be the one that most embodies the whole Melancholy profile).

Hence, ESFJ as Sanguine-Melancholy and ENTP as Sanguine-Choleric. If you look up both blends in classic temperament profiles, you'll see they fit those types very well; some of the best examples of this correlation I have made. (Sanguine + Melancholy is very emotional, and Sanguine + Choleric is very aggressive, will challenge the teacher, etc). 
For the ENTP, Ne provides the "people-focus" (always "informing" when the function is in a preferred position), with E providing the expressiveness, of course. (And likewise, Ni is always directive, and thus more serious. Hence, ENP as Sanguine, ENJ as Choleric, INJ as Melancholy).

People often describe the ESFJ as "controlling", which will make it sound "Choleric", but "controlling" is not a definition of Choleric; it's just a trait that often arises from the negative side of that temperament. But you have to look at the motivations behind the behavior. Choleric is about goals, and people are approached (according to his criteria) for those goals. Sanguine approaches people for socialization sake. EF + SJ ends up as dominant Fe. So the person will be very expressive and maybe even a bit aggressive about personal interaction (for its own sake); both giving and receiving. In its negative manifestation, it will seem controlling ("clinginess", etc). But this is a totally different reason than most Cholerics. (The one Choleric who will be very similar is the ENFJ, of course, which is also Fe dom.)

You could also look at it through E/I + J/P, so what you said about the four EJ types was good as well. The J pole, like T, leans toward "task" focus. Only it alternates between Keirsey temperament and Interaction Style.


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## LadyO.W.BernieBro

@Eric B, sorry, what would ESTJ be?

l'll look over this later but l'm not very familiar with it.


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## Eric B

Choleric Melancholy. Very similar to a pure Choleric (ENTJ), but because of the S, they focus on the concrete, which leads them to desire familiarity, and be "cooperative" to something like an institution.

The full key is 
Melancholy: IST, INJ, *SJ*
Choleric EST, ENJ, *NT*
Sanguine: ESF, ENP, *SP*
Phlegmatic or Supine: ISF, INP, *NF*


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## Obscure Reference

Eric B said:


> The problem is that there are two levels of temperament embodied in type. Keirsey's temperaments (called "conative", meaning dealing with action), and the Interaction Styles, which are the more classic "social" (affective) temperaments. NT is conative, and so deals with action or leadership. It is pragmatic and structure focused, which corresponds to the classical "aggressive and task-focused", which is what defined Choleric ("hot/dry"). Hence, as Aryn2 said, the "go-getters/doers" of the world.[/FONT][/COLOR]
> The structure focus is what provides "independence" for both the SJ and NT alike. I link it to something called "low Wanted Control", meaning they are very independent and have a strict criteria for accepting control from others. For the SJ, it is something concrete like an institution, rules, etc. and for the NT, it is abstract, like their plans or ideas. (Hence both will
> "focus on specific work" and "getting it done" i.e. "tasks", though in their own way).
> 
> On the social level, a Melancholy is reserved and task-focused, and that's where that whole "analysis and critical thinking" profile comes from. But on the social level, Melancholy is IST or INJ (not SJ). (INTP is a different Interaction Style —actually more aligned with three of the IF's, but the I + T will still give off that analytical "Melancholic" social image).
> 
> But SJ s the _conative_ Melancholy, and that covers some of the Melancholy's other well known traits, such as the need for familiarity and organization. (So ISTJ will be the one that most embodies the whole Melancholy profile).
> 
> Hence, ESFJ as Sanguine-Melancholy and ENTP as Sanguine-Choleric. If you look up both blends in classic temperament profiles, you'll see they fit those types very well; some of the best examples of this correlation I have made. (Sanguine + Melancholy is very emotional, and Sanguine + Choleric is very aggressive, will challenge the teacher, etc).
> For the ENTP, Ne provides the "people-focus" (always "informing" when the function is in a preferred position), with E providing the expressiveness, of course. (And likewise, Ni is always directive, and thus more serious. Hence, ENP as Sanguine, ENJ as Choleric, INJ as Melancholy).
> 
> People often describe the ESFJ as "controlling", which will make it sound "Choleric", but "controlling" is not a definition of Choleric; it's just a trait that often arises from the negative side of that temperament. But you have to look at the motivations behind the behavior. Choleric is about goals, and people are approached (according to his criteria) for those goals. Sanguine approaches people for socialization sake. EF + SJ ends up as dominant Fe. So the person will be very expressive and maybe even a bit aggressive about personal interaction (for its own sake); both giving and receiving. In its negative manifestation, it will seem controlling ("clinginess", etc). But this is a totally different reason than most Cholerics. (The one Choleric who will be very similar is the ENFJ, of course, which is also Fe dom.)
> 
> You could also look at it through E/I + J/P, so what you said about the four EJ types was good as well. The J pole, like T, leans toward "task" focus. Only it alternates between Keirsey temperament and Interaction Style.


"Melancholy enjoys organization and structure--" this is true, which is what makes the combination with choleric so over-achieving, but what happens when you smash it together with a sanguine, which inherently dislikes structure? Sanguines are aggressive as well; not in a leadership way, but in an antagonistic way. Therefore, when it is combined with the Rational (NT; I STILL say this is melancholic) you get things like questioning authority (challenging teachers). Cholerics don't disrespect authority, as they are looking to succeed within the system, and then climb to thr authority-- a lot of times cholerics ARE the authority. Sanguine and melancholy both reject authority in favor of independence, hence the nonconformist ENTP. Side note: Contrary to some thoughts otherwise, ENTPs are not independent because of repressed Fi. The combination of Fe with the Ti causes them to be acutely aware of how illogical and irrational other systems of belief and morals are; thus the misconception that ENTPs have three introvert functions, and ALSO their innate gift for provoking and messing with people.

Back to the point, OF COURSE combining sanguine with choleric would produce a controlling attitude with clinginess. That's what comes when you combine people orientation with task orientation. Therefore, I stand by my original assertion that ESFJ would be choleric-sanguine and ENTPs are melancholic-sanguine. 

It should be noted that I am adhering entirely to the social definitions of the humors-- Kiersey doesn't accurately type me and I have never found time to look into his system further.


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## TimeIsLove

My fiance and I just took the four temperament test as part of our premarital counseling classes. I'm an INFJ, and my results showed that I was primarily a Perfect Melancholy type, secondarily a Peaceful Phlegmatic type. So, @_silk15_, apparently I do fit into the MelPhleg category for INFJs you posted.  

My fiance tests as and relates to the MBTI ISTP description, although he is right on the border when it comes to introversion vs extroversion. His temperament was predominantly Powerful Choleric and secondarily Perfect Melancholy, fitting the ESTJ description you posted.

Results of the MBTI and the four temperaments tests are interesting, especially from a relational standpoint. However, I have always wondered to what extent they are actually valid instruments, accurately measuring what they are intended to measure. Sometimes I feel the results are intentionally broad, which of course sells us on the basis of the Pollyanna Principle. But who really knows? I still like them, haha.


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## Eric B

Obscure Reference said:


> "Melancholy enjoys organization and structure--" this is true, which is what makes the combination with choleric so over-achieving, but what happens when you smash it together with a sanguine, which inherently dislikes structure? Sanguines are aggressive as well; not in a leadership way, but in an antagonistic way. Therefore, when it is combined with the Rational (NT; I STILL say this is melancholic) you get things like questioning authority (challenging teachers). Cholerics don't disrespect authority, as they are looking to succeed within the system, and then climb to thr authority-- a lot of times cholerics ARE the authority. Sanguine and melancholy both reject authority in favor of independence, hence the nonconformist ENTP. Side note: Contrary to some thoughts otherwise, ENTPs are not independent because of repressed Fi. The combination of Fe with the Ti causes them to be acutely aware of how illogical and irrational other systems of belief and morals are; thus the misconception that ENTPs have three introvert functions, and ALSO their innate gift for provoking and messing with people.
> 
> Back to the point, OF COURSE combining sanguine with choleric would produce a controlling attitude with clinginess. That's what comes when you combine people orientation with task orientation. Therefore, I stand by my original assertion that ESFJ would be choleric-sanguine and ENTPs are melancholic-sanguine.
> 
> It should be noted that I am adhering entirely to the social definitions of the humors-- Kiersey doesn't accurately type me and I have never found time to look into his system further.


What happens when you cross Sanguine with Melancholy is a conflict between “fun” and “order”. They will want to socialize and forget about responsibilities, but then feel bad about it. 

Sanguine isn't antagonistic; they love people, and crave *attention*. Choleric would be the one who is more antagonistic, but they respect *competence*, which is what NT has been described as, so they will respect authority when it meets their strict criteria of making intuitive sense and being competent. So when those two are combined, you'll get someone who likes to provoke and challenge people. 

The choleric will work within the system to a point, but if he can't have things his way, will then tend to rebel or leave and compete with it. 
The Melancholy will be the company man who submits and then tries to work his way up, however long it may take. He only rebels when it is really corrupt or doesn't meet hin need for familiarity (like pushing him into unknown areas or going against his factual knowledge).

Again, the ESFJ is not “controlling” in the same way a Choleric is. Motivations are totally different, and ESFJ is not as aggressive. (SJ is “cooperative”).


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## Obscure Reference

Okay, I understand it better now.

I always thought of the sanguine as aggressive because of the attention factor, but then I realized it's just me. I like to provoke people. NT is a critical, analytic thinker, but I guess if that corresponds to choleric, then (in conjuction with that aggression) AM a sanguine-choleric ENTP, which flips my whole world around, as I had mostly identified with melancholic-sanguine, especially considering that NTP in general seems to gel unnaturally well with melancholy and introversion overall, and sanguine and choleric are both extroverted.

ENTPs are weird, dude. I used to think we really had Fi because of our nonconformist streak.


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## Eric B

Well, they can be “aggressive”, but they are just not as “critical” about it. They will have a “hot temper” like a Choleric, but will get over it much quicker. 

As for ENTP and Fi, there's a version of the theory that says Fi will be their “right brain alternative”, and come up quickly (at least until the tertiary develops enough to become the first defense). Fi shares with Ti the “P” attitude, so the NTP will normally turn inward for his impersonal judgments, but may stay inside when ywitching to a personal judgment (rather than going outside, which is the vulnerable area of Feeling for him).


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## Obscure Reference

Is it possible that because of the introspection, that ENTPs are sanguine melancholy with a choleric emulation, or vice versa? I ask because I know that I make a conscious effort to challenge people (I should note that I am a comedian, if it betrays any bias).


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## Eric B

It seems that for both NTP's, the "people-focused" NP part of it tempers the Choleric so that it perhaps appears to "mellow out" a bit and they end up identifying with Melancholy. So if there's any "emulation", it's opposite of what you said. Again, the Melancholy will not be as much into challenging people. They are more defensive, being critical when someone crosses their boundaries, rather than going after others.


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## Obscure Reference

The choleric will be more aggressive? Okay, now the sanguine-choleric (with melancholic emulation) makes a lot more sense.
ENTPs have the two most extroverted temperaments, but are the most introverted extroverts; your explanation, I feel, really nails just why. All I knew was that I didn't see any semblance of phlegmatic in ENTP. NTs are competent critical thinkers; SJs are cooperative organizers. Thinking about it this way helped me switch the two in my mind.

With all this in mind, I really feel like ENTP is the most accurate personality typing I've ever come across.


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## Eric B

JudyBoBudy said:


> I was sure I was an INFJ before I discovered that two of my best friends are too, and they said "You're way too logical to be a feeler". So I believed them and figured I was an XNTJ. But it never sat right with me. Lately I started thinking about the possibilty of INFJ again (I'm almost certain I'm a Ni dom, and the more I look at it I see Fe, but I think my Ti is stronger if that's logical?). Also, after learning the functions I'm pretty certain my friends are INFP and ISFP haha.


 Yeah; "way too logical to be a Feeler" is not necessarily a good way to tell. 
For one thing, not only does INFJ have tertiary Ti (which may make them seem uber-logical at times), but they (as well as ENFJ) are the only F's who are "directive" (which is a sort of "task-" rather than "people-focus"; the F - people focus comes out as something called "motive-focus"; and most T's are directive except for the NTP's, who also have a lot of T/F uncertainty), so again, they might look like T's.


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## Adena

Eric B said:


> Yeah; "way too logical to be a Feeler" is not necessarily a good way to tell.
> For one thing, not only does INFJ have tertiary Ti (which may make them seem uber-logical at times), but they (as well as ENFJ) are the only F's who are "directive" (which is a sort of "task-" rather than "people-focus"; the F - people focus comes out as something called "motive-focus"; and most T's are directive except for the NTP's, who also have a lot of T/F uncertainty), so again, they might look like T's.


Thanks, that's really helpful! I'm still studying the functions and I hope I'll get it right soon. Right now my top bets are INFJ or INTJ, and the more I look into it I see INFJ.


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## AmandaLee

JudyBoBudy said:


> Thanks, that's really helpful! I'm still studying the functions and I hope I'll get it right soon. Right now my top bets are INFJ or INTJ, and the more I look into it I see INFJ.


I get strong Fe-vibes from you, I gotta say. Don't believe the myth that says NFJs can't be logical.


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## Saira

Taken from Contact Us
I've bolded the parts that I relate to.
I'm an ISTP.








The Choleric is an extroverted, *hot-tempered, quick thinking, active, practical, strong-willed and easily annoyed person. Cholerics are self-confident, self-sufficient and very independent minded. They are decisive and opinionated and find it easy to make decisions for themselves as well as others. Cholerics tend to leave little room for negotiating. The Choleric is a visionary and seems to never run out of ideas, plans and goals, which are usually very practical.* The Choleric does not require as much sleep as the other temperaments so their activity seems endless. *Their activity almost always has a purpose because they are by nature result-oriented. They usually do not give in to the pressure of what others think unless they see that they cannot get the desired results. Cholerics can be crusaders against social injustice as they love to fight for a cause. Cholerics are both direct and firm when responding to others. They are slow to build relationships because results tend to be more important than people. They do not easily empathize with the feelings of others or show compassion. Cholerics think big and seek positions of authority. *









The Sanguine is an extroverted, *fun-loving, activity-prone, impulsive,* entertaining, persuasive, easily amused and* optimistic person.* Sanguines are receptive and open to others and build relationships quickly. They are animated, excited and *accepting of others.* *They will smile* and talk easily and often. It is not unusual to feel as if you have known the Sanguine person for years after only a few minutes. Sanguines are so people-oriented that they easily forget about time and are often late arriving at their destination. Sanguines* get bored easily because of their orientation to* social involvement, *activity* and general dislike for solitude. The Sanguine never lacks for friends. *Their attention span is based on whether or not they are interested in the person or event. *The Sanguine *can change their focus or interest in an instant. *Sanguines are *competitive and tend to be disorganized. Unless very disciplined, *the Sanguine *will have difficulty controlling their emotions. They usually like sports of any kind *because of the activity and involvement with other people. *Their voice will show excitement and friendliness.* Sanguines usually dress according to current fashion. The Sanguine fears rejection or not making a favorable impression. They also fear others viewing them as unsuccessful. Sanguines are very effective working with people. 









The Phlegmatic is an *introverted, calm, *unemotional*, easygoing,* never-get-upset, person. Phlegmatics are both slow and indirect when responding to others. *They are also slow to warm-up but will be accommodating in the process. *Phlegmatics are by far the easiest person with which to get along. They live a quiet, routine, life, free of the normal anxieties and stresses of the other temperaments. The Phlegmatic *will avoid getting too involved with people* and life in general. Phlegmatics seldom exert themselves with others or push their way along in their career, they just let it happen. The Phlegmatic communicates a warm, sincere interest in others preferring to have just a few close friends. *They will be very loyal to their friends* and find it difficult to break long standing relationships regardless of what the other person does. The Phlegmatic tends to resist change of any kind without reason, other than they just do not want the change to occur. Phlegmatics show little emotion and are prone to be a grudge holder. Phlegmatics tend to avoid conflict and making decisions of any kind. *They are practical, concrete and traditional thinkers. Their stoic expression often hides their true feelings.* The Phlegmatic may be patient to the point of paralysis. Phlegmatics are persistent and consistent at whatever they undertake. 









The Melancholy is an *introverted, logical, analytical, factual, private, lets-do-it*-right *person*. Melancholies respond to others in a slow, cautious and indirect manner. Melancholiesare* reserved and suspicious until sure of your intentions.* The Melancholy probe for the "hidden meaning" behind your words. They are timid and may appear unsure and have a serious expression. *They are self-sacrificing, gifted and they tend to be a perfectionist*. Melancholies are very sensitive to what others think about their work. The Melancholy is well organized; on occasion you may find a Melancholy that keeps things cluttered, however, they know what's in the piles. The Melancholy is determined to make the right and best decision. Melancholies will ask specific questions and sometimes they will ask the same question again and again. The Melancholy needs reassurance, feedback and reasons why they should do something. *They need information*, time to think and a plan. The Melancholy fears taking a risk, making a wrong decision and being viewed as incompetent. Melancholies tend to have a negative attitude toward something new until they have had time to think it over. Melancholies* are skeptical about most everything* but they are creative and capable people. Melancholies* tend to get bored with something once they get it figured out. *


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## vforverification

sanguine/choleric is what I actually got when I did it. Interesting.


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## The_Wanderer

FreeBeer said:


> The problem with his is that ESFJs tend to be predominately Sanguine, ENFJs Choleric, ESTPs are predominately Choleric, ISFJs & INFJs may be Supine.


Of course, you're forgetting that it's a very broad thing; almost like (but even more broader than) throwing every personality type with the letters "N" and "F" in their type into a single group. Broad groups are going to have standouts. Plus, the whole thing is based on a very, very, ancient and outdated way of measuring personality.


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## heroindisguise

Eric B said:


> OK. But just to point out; "messy and disorganized" does not necessarily mean P. (I know ISTJ pure Melancholies who are messy, and the reason goes back to childhood family dysfunction. This is one way "*nurture*" —or lack of it, can affect "*nature*").
> 
> Here are a couple of official profiles:
> 
> Social area (likely ISF/INP): Temperament: Supine In Inclusion
> 
> leadership (a kind of NF): Temperament:Supine in Control
> More moderate version that is not as "dependent": Temperament:Supine Phlegmatic in Control
> another moderate version: Temperament: Phlegmatic Supine In Affection


You're right. I meant that as a "generalisation" (or a general description), my bad. In that case, like a J that can act like a P, I am a P that sometimes act like a J. 

I'm kind of new to this temperament thing and only familiar with the MBTI. I've briefly read up on it in the past but never in depth. Maybe I'll have to research on more information. Based off the descriptions I can relate to both Melancholic and Phlegmatic though there was always something that doesn't sit right. 

The links you provided were helpful. Thank you! I've read through all the descriptions and relate to Supine In Control the most (though there are still things that don't fit).


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## TwinAnthos

*Istp here*



Saira said:


> Taken from Contact Us
> I've bolded the parts that I relate to.
> I'm an ISTP.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Choleric is an extroverted, *hot-tempered, quick thinking, active, practical, strong-willed and easily annoyed person. Cholerics are self-confident, self-sufficient and very independent minded. They are decisive and opinionated and find it easy to make decisions for themselves as well as others. Cholerics tend to leave little room for negotiating. The Choleric is a visionary and seems to never run out of ideas, plans and goals, which are usually very practical.* The Choleric does not require as much sleep as the other temperaments so their activity seems endless. *Their activity almost always has a purpose because they are by nature result-oriented. They usually do not give in to the pressure of what others think unless they see that they cannot get the desired results. Cholerics can be crusaders against social injustice as they love to fight for a cause. Cholerics are both direct and firm when responding to others. They are slow to build relationships because results tend to be more important than people. They do not easily empathize with the feelings of others or show compassion. Cholerics think big and seek positions of authority. *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Sanguine is an extroverted, *fun-loving, activity-prone, impulsive,* entertaining, persuasive, easily amused and* optimistic person.* Sanguines are receptive and open to others and build relationships quickly. They are animated, excited and *accepting of others.* *They will smile* and talk easily and often. It is not unusual to feel as if you have known the Sanguine person for years after only a few minutes. Sanguines are so people-oriented that they easily forget about time and are often late arriving at their destination. Sanguines* get bored easily because of their orientation to* social involvement, *activity* and general dislike for solitude. The Sanguine never lacks for friends. *Their attention span is based on whether or not they are interested in the person or event. *The Sanguine *can change their focus or interest in an instant. *Sanguines are *competitive and tend to be disorganized. Unless very disciplined, *the Sanguine *will have difficulty controlling their emotions. They usually like sports of any kind *because of the activity and involvement with other people. *Their voice will show excitement and friendliness.* Sanguines usually dress according to current fashion. The Sanguine fears rejection or not making a favorable impression. They also fear others viewing them as unsuccessful. Sanguines are very effective working with people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Phlegmatic is an *introverted, calm, *unemotional*, easygoing,* never-get-upset, person. Phlegmatics are both slow and indirect when responding to others. *They are also slow to warm-up but will be accommodating in the process. *Phlegmatics are by far the easiest person with which to get along. They live a quiet, routine, life, free of the normal anxieties and stresses of the other temperaments. The Phlegmatic *will avoid getting too involved with people* and life in general. Phlegmatics seldom exert themselves with others or push their way along in their career, they just let it happen. The Phlegmatic communicates a warm, sincere interest in others preferring to have just a few close friends. *They will be very loyal to their friends* and find it difficult to break long standing relationships regardless of what the other person does. The Phlegmatic tends to resist change of any kind without reason, other than they just do not want the change to occur. Phlegmatics show little emotion and are prone to be a grudge holder. Phlegmatics tend to avoid conflict and making decisions of any kind. *They are practical, concrete and traditional thinkers. Their stoic expression often hides their true feelings.* The Phlegmatic may be patient to the point of paralysis. Phlegmatics are persistent and consistent at whatever they undertake.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Melancholy is an *introverted, logical, analytical, factual, private, lets-do-it*-right *person*. Melancholies respond to others in a slow, cautious and indirect manner. Melancholiesare* reserved and suspicious until sure of your intentions.* The Melancholy probe for the "hidden meaning" behind your words. They are timid and may appear unsure and have a serious expression. *They are self-sacrificing, gifted and they tend to be a perfectionist*. Melancholies are very sensitive to what others think about their work. The Melancholy is well organized; on occasion you may find a Melancholy that keeps things cluttered, however, they know what's in the piles. The Melancholy is determined to make the right and best decision. Melancholies will ask specific questions and sometimes they will ask the same question again and again. The Melancholy needs reassurance, feedback and reasons why they should do something. *They need information*, time to think and a plan. The Melancholy fears taking a risk, making a wrong decision and being viewed as incompetent. Melancholies tend to have a negative attitude toward something new until they have had time to think it over. Melancholies* are skeptical about most everything* but they are creative and capable people. Melancholies* tend to get bored with something once they get it figured out. *


So I'am supposed to be melancholic and sanguine. I find myself more as melancholic and phlegmatic. Think about it. Istp are good listners which is a common trait among phlegmatics.
"The Phlegmatic  is an introverted, calm, unemotional, easygoing, never-get-upset, person." " The Phlegmatic communicates a warm, sincere interest in others preferring to have just a few close friends. *They will be very loyal to their friends*""*They are practical, concrete and traditional thinkers. Their stoic expression often hides their true feelings.* The Phlegmatic may be patient to the point of paralysis." Istps are like that. 

" The Melancholy is an *introverted, logical, analytical, factual, private, lets-do-it*-right *person*. Melancholies respond to others in a slow, cautious and indirect manner. Melancholiesare* reserved and suspicious until sure of your intentions.*""They are timid and may appear unsure and have a serious expression. *They are self-sacrificing, gifted and they tend to be a perfectionist*""Melancholies* are skeptical about most everything* but they are creative and capable people. Melancholies* tend to get bored with something once they get it figured out. " Which part us aren't like that? 

I can't find any part in sanguine that fits the istp. Even though we can be warm and friendly with close people, everyone can be that. It dosn't point out "hey theres a saguine", almost everyone would be one then.

I'm not attacking you guys, I just want my point written, cuze , I realyl can't see the sanguine part in me.*


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## LibertyPrime

@TwinAnthos

o.o you need to figure out what you are in 3 areas:

Inclusion
Control
Affection

*Inclusion* governs how your interact socially. For me that is phlegmatic. If we interact i'm going to have the needs of a phlegmatic and will come across as one: friendly, but distant and if you don't meet criteria for "interesting person" the relationship will be superficial at best as if I have some kind of wall up that needs to be torn down. I'll also fear rejection & may be emotionally shallow or not present.
*Control* governs the area of how much control you want over others and how much you allow over yourself. For me this would be Sanguine/Phlegmatic, which means I act sanguine and react as phlegmatic. This means I'm independent & highly democratic, but also reactive/stubborn & active, chaotic, undisciplined & disorganized.
*Affection* governs how much affection you give & receive. (unknown for me at this point). Not sanguine thou. I only want very few deep relationships.

This is why I can come across phlegmatic, but am in fact sanguine at my core (control). It makes me a specific variant of sanguine that doesn't look like one & doesn't have all the needs of one, but it is one where things really matter. I will be different yet again in intimate relationships.

*Thou phlegmatics are in general ISP stereotypes. Imo Phlegmatic-melancholic fits ISTP best.*



> *General description of people who are Phlegmatic Melancholy in Control:*
> 
> Independent and self-motivated.
> Wants very little control over the lives and behaviors of others and will tolerate very little control over his/her own life and behavior.
> Realistic about his/her abilities and talents and seldom pushes himself/herself beyond his/her capabilities.
> 
> *Potential strengths which should be encouraged, used and developed:*
> 
> Very confident in his/her ability to make decisions and take on responsibilities.
> Has leadership abilities but must be allowed to move at his/her own pace.
> Makes decisions and takes on responsibilities very well.
> 
> *Potential weaknesses which should be considered and dealt with:*
> 
> Will tolerate very little interference from others when undertaking tasks.
> If pushed into making decisions and taking on responsibilities above or outside his/her capabilities, he/she will rebel with a "dry" (sarcastic) sense of humor and stubbornly refuse to move.
> Must appear competent and in control.
> Becomes angry if someone tries to interfere with his/her independence or tries to control or tell him/her what to do.
> Uses dry (sarcastic)sense of humor as a defense against being controlled.
> Becomes angry if confronted for mistakes, made to look foolish or made to look incompetent -- uses dry sense of humor to counter-attack.
> Suffers from anxiety if someone is his/her sole responsibility.


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## TwinAnthos

FreeBeer said:


> @TwinAnthos
> 
> o.o you need to figure out what you are in 3 areas:
> 
> Inclusion
> Control
> Affection
> 
> *Inclusion* governs how your interact socially. For me that is phlegmatic. If we interact i'm going to have the needs of a phlegmatic and will come across as one.
> *Control* governs the area of how much control you want over others and how much you allow over yourself. For me this would be Sanguine/Phlegmatic, which means I act sanguine and react as phlegmatic. This means I'm independent & highly democratic, but also reactive/stubborn.
> *Affection* governs how much affection you give & receive. (unknown for me at this point).
> 
> This is why I can come across phlegmatic, but am in fact sanguine at my core (control). It makes me a specific variant of sanguine that doesn't look like one & doesn't have all the needs of one, but it is one where things really matter. I will be different yet again in intimate relationships.


Inclusion; Well phlegmatic from what I've read. 
Control; Not sure about that one. But I don't like to order people around , but if neccesary will. I like to have controll over myself but not overly much.
Affection; I only give to family and close friends and only get from them. Most people really just either are jealous of me , or I can't stand for various reasons, so there are few I'm affectionet with. 

I don't know to much of the four tempermanets , but from what I read. I still can't really find myself as a sanguine. 
Sorry about the maybe perceived as outburst.:blushed: I read it through and , I didn't think it as offensive, but then I though that some might think it as that.


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## Eric B

The_Wanderer said:


> Of course, you're forgetting that it's a very broad thing; almost like (but even more broader than) throwing every personality type with the letters "N" and "F" in their type into a single group. Broad groups are going to have standouts. Plus, the whole thing is based on a very, very, ancient and outdated way of measuring personality.


If by "ancient and outdated", you mean humorism, while that provided the original basis for the theory, what the real underlying factors were is *expressiveness* and *responsiveness*, which is what was basically symbolized by the "hot/cold" and "moist/dry" properties of the humors. This is something that figures very much in our interaction (which is what type theory has been geared toward), so it is relevant.


Cavaller said:


> The links you provided were helpful. Thank you! I've read through all the descriptions and relate to Supine In Control the most (though there are still things that don't fit).


 OK, great. Also, you should know Inclusion is separate, so you should choose something from there too. Both go together (like Interaction Style + Keirsey temperament both figuring in type).



FreeBeer said:


> *Thou phlegmatics are in general ISP stereotypes. Imo Phlegmatic-melancholic fits ISTP best.*


 One problem in that system is that "Phlegmatic Melancholy" can mean two totally different things. It can mean Phlegmatic *in Inclusion*; Melancholy *in Control*, which seems to be how you're using it; and it can also be "Phlegmatic Melancholy in [any *one* of the three areas]"; and the report you pasted was Control. That by itself wouldn't be a whole type, just like one of Keirsey's temperaments by itself isn't a whole type.

They did not come up with a way to distinguish the two meanings. "Phlegmatic Melancholy" within one area (which means they _express_ like a Phlegmatic, and _respond_ like a Melancholy; and what we "respond" as is a bit more important) can be thought of as an "Ambiverted Melancholy", meaning they're more expressive than a regular Melancholy, and thus bordering on Choleric. So that variant is like between Melancholy and Choleric. I would in fact grant it possibly fitting NT! 



TwinAnthos said:


> Inclusion; Well phlegmatic from what I've read.
> Control; Not sure about that one. But I don't like to order people around , but if neccesary will. I like to have controll over myself but not overly much.
> Affection; I only give to family and close friends and only get from them. Most people really just either are jealous of me , or I can't stand for various reasons, so there are few I'm affectionet with.
> 
> I don't know to much of the four tempermanets , but from what I read. I still can't really find myself as a sanguine.


 Another point I didn't mention is that the blended temperaments *modify* each other. So while Sanguine is expressive, if it is in Control, and yet Inclusion is introverted, then you won't look (or feel) like a Sanguine. 

Sanguine in Control for one thing, is not so much about "ordering people around" (That's actually Choleric _in Inclusion_; ⦅aka "In Charge" Interaction Style⦆; more than anything else, because it involves the initial surface "social" aspect of interaction). As you'll see in the report, it's more about _taking responsibility_. From a more "SP" viewpoint, you can think of it as "taking _action_". (Keirsey's temperaments have been dubbed "conative", which means dealing with "action").
Again, if the person is an introvert, this will temper that fast action. Hence, as I said earlier, why so many ISP's often have trouble fitting the SP profiles. On the other hand, the expressive Control will also make the introvert a bit quicker to go against his surface inclination and take action, sometimes. This sounds pretty compatible with what you're saying.


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## gross porcelain

INFP and mostly phlegmatic and then melancholy so it goes with the theory


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## LibertyPrime

@Eric B

Hmm, in light of what you said earlier, does that mean I'm phlegmatic/sanguine overall, because I interact more like a phlegmatic, but at my core I'm sanguine & I lack the phlegmatic's desire for detail & monotonous work? (because I can't deal with detailed monotonous work or routine...its boring, I can't be bothered with these. *I require varied stimulation very much like a sanguine.*) So because I'm sanguine in control & phlegmatic in inclusion?

Do I have to be sanguine in inclusion and phlegmatic in control for GP Sanguine-Phlegmatic? *I mainly used GP Sanguine/Phlegmatic to describe myself in control.*

The deal with me is that I have a sanguine's needs & flaws and I react like one, minus the need for socializing ( have no need for many many friends). *I would be gp sanguine phlegmatic only in control.*


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## Eric B

How we "express" is what we _say_ we want, and how we respond is what we _really_ want. So Phlegmatic Sanguine expresses as a Phlegmatic, and "Phlegmatic" is basically neutral; not driven toward or away from people (and hence, a lower energy reserve). Sanguine is driven toward people, so to respond as a Sanguine mean that you want interaction. Since this is Control, the "interaction" is shared responsibilities, rather than socialization.
But the lower expressiveness means you don't look like it. This is the same problem for the Supine, which this borders on.
So in a way, you could say the "core" is Sanguine. So this would be like what you explain. You would have the Sanguine need for varied stimuation rather than the Phlegmatic need for detail, yet you would not be as expressive as a Sanguine, and thus "interact like a Phlegmatic.

You can be Phlegmatic in Inclusion and Phlegmatic Sanguine in Control. (The code for this would be P-PG- and there would be a third letter for Affection). That would be someone who looks like a pure Phlegmatic, but has some of the "wants" of a Sanguine, especially in responsibilities and action, but otherwise doesn't really need much socialization.
You could also be Phlegmatic in Inclusion and Sanguine-Phlegmatic in Control (P-GP- ). That would also be a lot like a pure Phlegmaric, yet have some amount of expressiveness in the area of leadership and action. The wants for interaction would across the board be moderate. 
There's also, simply Phlegmatic in Inclusion and Sanguine in Control (P-G- ), and then there could always be PG-PG- , PG-G-, PG-P-, GP-GP-, GP-P-, etc.


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## ZZZVader

Looks about right. INFJ here:









Very close to 50/50 with Phlegmatic and Melancholic.


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## Karolina

INTJ and feel more like a "MelSan". These are true opposites (labile introvert - stabile extrovert) and I actually see the two sides of myself in my behavior, making decisions, dealing with stress etc.


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## Gossip Goat

I've had that test administered at school before and got melancholic / phlegmatic & my possibles types are INFP, ISFJ & INFJ


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## Endologic

Here's what I think:
Let's take the information we got from the OP.
SJs are melancholic,
SPs are sanguine,
NFs are phlegmatic,
NTs are choleric.

Now let's add judging/perceiving into the equation:
The judger adapts his lifestyle to his category,
The perceiver adapts his behavior to his category.

That means that SJs have melancholic lifestyles and that SPs have sanguine behavior.

ISTJ: Melancholic lifestyle, melancholic behavior.
ISFJ: Melancholic lifestyle, phlegmatic behavior.
ESFJ: Melancholic lifestyle, sanguine behavior.
ESTJ: Melancholic lifestyle, choleric behavior.

ISTP: Melancholic lifestyle, sanguine behavior.
ISFP: Phlegmatic lifestyle, sanguine behavior.
ESFP: Sanguine lifestyle, sanguine behavior.
ESTP: Choleric lifestyle, sanguine behavior.

INFJ: Phlegmatic lifestyle, melancholic behavior.
INFP: Phlegmatic lifestyle, phlegmatic behavior.
ENFP: Sanguine lifestyle, phlegmatic behavior.
ENFJ: Phlegmatic lifestyle, choleric behavior.

INTJ: Choleric lifestyle, melancholic behavior.
INTP: Phlegmatic lifestyle, choleric behavior.
ENTP: Sanguine lifestyle, choleric behavior.
ENTJ: Choleric lifestyle, choleric behavior.

That's what I've deduced from the information given.


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## Tetsuo Shima

IxTx= Melancholic
ExFx= Sanguine
IxFx= Phlegmatic
ExTx= Choleric


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## Tetsuo Shima

Here's this element thing that I got high and spent about probably at least an hour making after reading @Emologic's post.

Melancholic = Earth
Sanguine = Air
Phlegmatic = Water
Choleric = Fire

ISTJ: Earth + Earth = Earth
ISFJ: Earth + Water = Life
ESFJ: Earth + Air = Justice
ESTJ: Earth + Fire = Time

ISTP: Earth + Air = Justice
ISFP: Water + Air = Space
ESFP: Air + Air = Air
ESTP: Fire + Air = Death

INFJ: Water + Earth = Life
INFP: Water + Water = Water
ENFP: Air + Water = Space
ENFJ: Water + Fire = Chaos

INTJ: Fire + Earth = Time
INTP: Water + Fire = Chaos
ENTP: Air + Fire = Death
ENTJ: Fire + Fire = Fire


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## Highway Nights

Sanguine/Choleric


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## Eric B

Emologic said:


> Here's what I think:
> Let's take the information we got from the OP.
> SJs are melancholic,
> SPs are sanguine,
> NFs are phlegmatic,
> NTs are choleric.
> 
> Now let's add judging/perceiving into the equation:
> The judger adapts his lifestyle to his category,
> The perceiver adapts his behavior to his category.
> 
> That means that SJs have melancholic lifestyles and that SPs have sanguine behavior.
> 
> ISTJ: Melancholic lifestyle, melancholic behavior.
> ISFJ: Melancholic lifestyle, phlegmatic behavior.
> ESFJ: Melancholic lifestyle, sanguine behavior.
> ESTJ: Melancholic lifestyle, choleric behavior.
> 
> ISTP: Melancholic lifestyle, sanguine behavior.
> ISFP: Phlegmatic lifestyle, sanguine behavior.
> ESFP: Sanguine lifestyle, sanguine behavior.
> ESTP: Choleric lifestyle, sanguine behavior.
> 
> INFJ: Phlegmatic lifestyle, melancholic behavior.
> INFP: Phlegmatic lifestyle, phlegmatic behavior.
> ENFP: Sanguine lifestyle, phlegmatic behavior.
> ENFJ: Phlegmatic lifestyle, choleric behavior.
> 
> INTJ: Choleric lifestyle, melancholic behavior.
> INTP: Phlegmatic lifestyle, choleric behavior.
> ENTP: Sanguine lifestyle, choleric behavior.
> ENTJ: Choleric lifestyle, choleric behavior.
> 
> That's what I've deduced from the information given.


Interesting take on it.


Tetsuo Shima said:


> IxTx= Melancholic
> ExFx= Sanguine
> IxFx= Phlegmatic
> ExTx= Choleric


For S's, it works that way.
For N's, it's I/E + J/P (replace F with P, and T with J).


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## fair phantom

I'm either an ENFP or an INFP. Melancholy is my dominant temperament, with Sanguine secondary. I guess we can't go on tests alone but I've taken dozens and I don't think I've ever _not_ gotten melancholy as my top result.


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## Rabid Seahorse

ENTP. Skeptical of these temperaments but sanguine and choleric mixture describes me best.


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## Eric B

fair phantom said:


> I'm either an ENFP or an INFP. Melancholy is my dominant temperament, with Sanguine secondary. I guess we can't go on tests alone but I've taken dozens and I don't think I've ever _not_ gotten melancholy as my top result.


If an NFP gets Melancholy in a four temperament test, then perhaps the fifth temperament, Supine? Temperament: Supine In Inclusion (which looks like Melancholy in being very reserved, but would be heavier on Fi, where Melanchioly is very Te)?


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## fair phantom

Eric B said:


> If an NFP gets Melancholy in a four temperament test, then perhaps the fifth temperament, Supine? Temperament: Supine In Inclusion (which looks like Melancholy in being very reserved, but would be heavier on Fi, where Melanchioly is very Te)?


Supine seems to fit me pretty well!


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## Jerdle

INTP - Melancholic/Choleric. Couldn't be less Phlegmatic or Supine.


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## sremmij

I'm an INFJ, and I tend to fluctuate between Phleg/Mel and Mel/Phleg. At first the latter seemed more accurate, but now I'm beginning to question it.


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## Eset

Very high Choleric, very high Phlegmatic, very low Melancholic, very low Sanguine.
Choleric is a tad more dominant than Phlegmatic.


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## Aelthwyn

Overall looks fairly accurate to me. *shrug*

I'm INFP 4w5 and am some combination of phlegmatic and sanguine


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## Snowflake Minuet

INFJ and melancholic, next would be phlegmatic but very little, pretty much all melancholic.


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## Monroe

ISTP-Mel/Choleric


Mel/Chol – This is both a perfectionist and a driver which may lead him into law or medicine. They mix decisiveness and determination. Because of the critical nature of the Melancholy they may be very difficult to please. If they become negative about someone or something it will have a tendency to stay with them for a long time. Their combination can lead them to "nit-pick" others and be revengeful to those they have a grudge against.


http://www.thetransformedsoul.com/a...ellaneous-studies/the-four-human-temperaments


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## makeup

I'm an ENFP who's Sanguine-Phlegmatic (that's not how I test; I get melancholic but I don't believe that, I identify with Sanguine-Phlegmatic more), so that sounds about right!


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## Kallista

I usually test as Phlegmatic in 1st place but the other 3 are closely scored so I'm not sure what my 2nd would be.


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## Eric B

Probably Melancholy (from the SJ).


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## leictreon

I'm a melancholy phlegmatic INFP. I disagree with OP (unless I'm a mistyped INFJ)


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## Azazel

INFJ - Sanguine~Phlegmatic. I used to get melancholic as second place then have a little beatdown between choleric and phlegmatic. But, some people change, I guess.

Ok, I've been reading about it and seems a little unsenseful for an INFJ. As I'm reading I cannot completely identify with Mel or Phleg but would say Melancholic rather than Phlegmatic for me.


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## JAH

INTJ, mainly choleric, a bit melancholic as well.


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## Belzy

*sigh* always expensive words I need to look up...

Melancholy = you're overcome in sorrow, wrapped up in sorrowful thoughts
Sounds totally like me.

Phlegmatic = submissive introverts who live to please others
That is totally like me. Sadly.

Choleric = the proud, extroverted 'alphas' of our species
Absolutely not like me.

Sanguine = cheerfully optimistic, hopeful, or confident
Totally not like me.



silk15 said:


> ISFJ Phlegmatic/Melancholy ("PhlegMel")
> ISFP Phlegmatic/Sanguine ("PhlegSan")
> INFP Pure Phlegmatic
> ENFP Sanguine/Phlegmatic ("SanPhleg")
> ENTP Sanguine/Choleric ("SanChlor")
> ENFJ Choleric/Phlegmatic ("ChlorPhleg")


Okay, as INFP pure phlegmatic makes enough sense. ENFP sanguine, yeah, a bit more proof I probably aint that (ENFP). I can understand being so phlegmatic makes me melancholy as well.


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## Eric B

Sve said:


> INFJ - Sanguine~Phlegmatic. I used to get melancholic as second place then have a little beatdown between choleric and phlegmatic. But, some people change, I guess.
> 
> Ok, I've been reading about it and seems a little unsenseful for an INFJ. As I'm reading I cannot completely identify with Mel or Phleg but would say Melancholic rather than Phlegmatic for me.


 You might be Melancholy-Supine, then. Supine is a fifth temperament (http://personalitycafe.com/personal...holy-choleric-phlegmatic-sanguine-supine.html), that is similar to Phlegmatic and Melancholy, yet has a higher people-focus, like a Sanguine. So it might pick up as any of these three temperaments in a four temperament test. (NF would be either Phlegmatic or Supine, as would ISF or INP).


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## Azazel

Eric B said:


> You might be Melancholy-Supine, then. Supine is a fifth temperament (http://personalitycafe.com/personal...holy-choleric-phlegmatic-sanguine-supine.html), that is similar to Phlegmatic and Melancholy, yet has a higher people-focus, like a Sanguine. So it might pick up as any of these three temperaments in a four temperament test. (NF would be either Phlegmatic or Supine, as would ISF or INP).


I've been loking for it, very useful, but it's not my type even if somehow I felt kinda identified. From now I'll leave it behind, but what I've seen is that the stereotypes of Melancholic are serious snowflake-driven. As it first I felt myself identified with them but that's normal when it comes off much more than the others. Anyways, thank you.


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## throughtheroses

I'm a Melancholic-Sanguine INFP. Phlegmatic is my lowest result any time I take tests about this, actually.


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## Jaune

I am an ISFP, and I'm melancholic with slight phlegmatic tendencies. I believe that I show basically no sanguine behavior.


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## garcdanny26

INFJ here! Melancholic comes first for me, then Phlegmatic I would say as I do tend to be a "people-pleaser," however Melancholic is more of my overall personality.


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## kitchensink

Either an INFP or ENFJ... phlegmatic. Yay.


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## justlurking

This is my theory, (btw I grouped it as NT/NF/ST/SF because I dont believe in Keirsey's SJ/SP) :wink:

INTJ:Melancholic
INTP:Melancholic/Phlegmatic
ENTJ:Choleric/Melancholic
ENTP:Choleric/Phlegmatic

ISTJ:Melancholic/Choleric
ISTP:Melancholic/Sanguine
ESTJ:Choleric
ESTP:Choleric/Sanguine

INFJhlegmatic/Melancholic
INFPhlegmatic
ENFJ:Sanguine/Melancholic
ENFP:Sanguine/Phlegmatic

ISFJhlegmatic/Choleric
ISFPhlegmatic/Sanguine
ESFJ:Sanguine/Choleric
ESFP:Sanguine


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## Eset

Already one made @justlurking :









Me:
I am Choleric-Phlegmatic


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## azir

entp looks right ~ choleric/mel
san/phleg might also work for me 
(why is choleric shortened to chlor)


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## bremen

Pure melancholy...feelsbadman.


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## Eset

Pure plebmatic...feelsbadman.


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## Simpson17866

Warning: I tend to take stereotypes as a challenge and look explicitly for exceptions :wink:

I'm a Phelgmatic/Melancholic INTP, and some of my favorite fictional characters that I've come up with have been

Phlegmatic/Melancholic ESFJ (mix-match)
Sanguine/Choleric ENFJ (mix-match)
Sanguine/Melancholic ENTP (match)
Choleric/Melancholic ESTJ (mix-match)
Pure Melancholic INFJ (mix-match)

Pure Sanguine ESFP (match)
Choleric/Phlegmatic ISTJ (mix-match)
Sanguine/Melancholic ESFJ (match)
Melancholic/Phlegmatic INFJ (match)

... Huh. My new story is apparently less counter-intuitive about this than my first was.


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## Azazel

After a research and tests, I'm sure that I'm either Phlegmatic-melancholic or Melancholic-phlegmatic rather than any layer of sanguine.


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## justlurking

Did someone really delete my post? wow....


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## Snowfrost918

Mel/Phleg or the other way around. None of the four describe me well. Although, I have trouble believing that INFP as a whole could be Phlegmatic. Their Fi seems to override the idea of a meek and submissive person.


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## jk4heels

I am definitely melancholic, but probably evenly split between phlegmatic and choleric.


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## Eric B

A mature Fi sometimes does end up in practice being meek and submissive, because it tries to accommodate others (the difference from Fe is that Fe goes by what the others want directly, while Fi infers it from within. Like "if that were me, I'd want this...". This often leads to meekness and accommodation). When people think of Fi being the opposite of that, it's likely the more "primitive" Fi of a Thinking type.


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## giraffegator

I'm a sanguine/phlegmatic and my closest type is ESFP so that's nearly right.
I think EricB is right in that as I've matured I've become more able to think "if it were me I would want..." and that has probably made me more "submissive" looking. I've always been conflict averse though and I have a bit of anxiety from childhood trauma in the mix as well that might add to that phlegmatic temperament. As I've matured I've also become slightly more choleric as I became more confident and self assured.


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## Black Scorpion

I've noticed this as well, and I disagree with most of these.
I'm an assertive INTJ and my main 2 temperaments are Phlegmatic & Choleric. The 3rd is Melancholic and 4th (sanguine) is nonexistent (0%). Any certain assertive personality type has the main 2 temperaments different (or in a different order..) from the same turbulent personality type.
I studied the 4 temperaments for about 5 years before finding out about MBTI and these are my conclusions:

Assertive ISTJ - Phlegmatic. Turbulent ISTJ - Melancholic/Phlegmatic 
Assertive ISFJ - Sanguine/Melancholic. Turbulent ISFJ - Melancholic/Sanguine
Assertive INFJ - Phlegmatic/Sanguine. Turbulent INFJ - Sanguine/Choleric
Assertive INTJ - Phlegmatic/Choleric. Turbulent INTJ - Choleric/Melancholic
Assertive ISTP - Phlegmatic. Turbulent ISTP - Phlegmatic/Choleric
Assertive ISFP - Phlegmatic/Sanguine. Turbulent ISFP - Sanguine/Melancholic
Assertive INFP - Melancholic/Phlegmatic. Turbulent INFP - Melancholic
Assertive INTP - Phlegmatic. Turbulent INTP - Phlegmatic/Melancholic
Assertive ESTP - Choleric/Phlegmatic. Turbulent ESTP - Choleric/Sanguine
Assertive ESFP - Sanguine. Turbulent ESFP - Sanguine/Melancholic
Assertive ENFP - Sanguine. Turbulent ENFP - Sanguine/Melancholic 
Assertive ENTP - Sanguine/Phlegmatic. Turbulent ENTP - Sanguine/Choleric
Assertive ESTJ - Sanguine/Choleric. Turbulent ESTJ - Choleric/Sanguine
Assertive ESFJ - Sanguine. Turbulent ESFJ - Sanguine/Choleric
Assertive ENFJ - Choleric/Sanguine. Turbulent ENFJ - Choleric
Assertive ENTJ - Choleric/Phlegmatic. Turbulent ENTJ - Choleric


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## Rydori

I'm Sanguine Chloeric


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## Eric B

Assertive/Turbulent is supposed to be the "fifth factor" of *Neuroticism*. Neuroticism was originally conceived by Hans Eysenck as the factor other than "Extraversion" for the four temperaments. 
The temperaments were originally I/E and people vs task orientation:

Sanguine high E, high people focus
Choleric: high E, low people [task] focus
Phlegmatic: low E, high people focus
Melancholic low E, low people [task] focus

Eysenck's "Neuroticism" was similar, but like the _inverse_ of people/task:

Sanguine high E, low N (stable)
Choleric: high E, high N
Phlegmatic: low E, low N (stable)
Melancholic low E, high N

Eysenck would later add "psychoticism", which was later broken down into "Agreeableness" (which is actually closer to the old "people/task"), Conscientiousness and Openness, and the FFM theory was born.

Since FFM is perhaps the most respected personality system in the larger psychology field, others are trying to adopt it in one way or the other. Myers even looked into a "Comfort-Discomfort" scale, but determined it was too "negative" sounding, and simply folded its subscales into the other factors of Step II. So this other site now has "Assertive/Turbulent".

So, to go by Eysenck, this factor is already built into the temperaments. "Assertive" is misleading, because it sounds like Extraversion (as the term represents in DISC), but it really means "Stable". "Turbulent" is of course, Neuroticism itself.

Variations from this might result from several different things. 
Like the NF and ISF/INP groups, which represent the "Stable" Phlegmatic, might also fall into a more "Neurotic" fifth temperament. 
Also, in this whole correlation I've done, represented by the table a couple of people posted above, there's also a third area of temperament in addition to Keirsey and the Interaction styles, and any type can be any temperament in theta area, and so that will also affect one's A/T score.
Plus, things that are not type, such as one's experiences ("nurture" rather than "nature") might also shape A/T.


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## Chatshire

I'm Melancholic/Phlegmatic so yeah that's pretty close :')


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## TB_Wisdom

I've studied the subject matter for a very long time. Unfortunately, the TC (which is based on the picture on pinterest) is nearly correct but not correct because you cannot be a combination of two opposing temperaments (e.g. Sanguine/Melancholic). Moreover, you cannot be Melancholic and a Feeler, you cannot be Choleric and a Feeler, you cannot be Sanguine and a Thinker, or Phlegmatic and a Thinker. 

There is extensive literature (see e.g. from theologian Dr. D. W. Ekstrand) that the extraverted types are Choleric and Sanguine, and the introverted types are Melancholic and Phlegmatic. Moreover, the Choleric and Melancholic are usually organizational while the Sanguine and Phlegmatic are relational. This gives the following categorization:

*Choleric:* E_T_ (Te-dominant types [ETJ], or extraverted perceiving types with Ti-auxiliary [ETP])
*Sanguine: *E_F_ (Fe-dominant types [EFJ], or extraverted perceiving types with Fi-auxiliary [EFP])
*Phlegmatic:* I_F_ (Fi-dominant types [IFP], or extraverted perceiving types with Fe-auxiliary [IFJ])
*Melancholic:* I_T_ (Ti-dominant types [ITP], or extraverted perceiving types with Te-auxiliary [ITJ])

This is true to varying degrees, because some MBTI types fit better to a temperament, and other MBTI types have significant blends of many temperaments:

*- ENTP: *This type is a bit of a blend, between Choleric and Sanguine. However, on average, I would say that the entrepreneurial, debating and quick-thinking attributes makes the ENTP more Choleric than Sanguine, and all ENTP:s I know, I would type as Choleric. [ENTP is likely a Choleric/Sanguine blend]
*- ESTP: *This type will appear very Sanguine to the world due to their Se dominance, but the Sanguine temperament has a gentleness and warmness with people that the ESTP lack due to Ti auxiliary, and the ESTP tend to be short-tempered typical of the Choleric temperament thus typed as mainly Choleric. [ESTP is likely a Choleric/Sanguine blend]
*- ENFJ: *This type can appear very Choleric (like an ENTJ) but every single ENFJ I know is clearly Sanguine in temperament, and they have a patience, warmth and motivating way of talking to people quite characterized by the Sanguine but completely opposite of the Choleric [ENFJ is likely a Sanguine/Choleric blend]
*- ISTP: *This type can appear very Sanguine but has a technical, logical and problem-solving side more reminiscent of the Melancholic temperament.
*- INFJ:* This will be an interesting one: No, INFJ:s, you are not Melancholic in your temperament but Phlegmatic. Every single INFJ (and there are lots) who have Youtube channels who go in-depth into their psyche, have a clear peace-making people-loving harmonizing aura of the Phlegmatic temperament. Every single INFJ I know is clearly (without a shadow of a doubt) Phlegmatic in temperament. However, most INFJ:s I know are Melancholic in secondary temperament [INFJ is likely a Phlegmatic/Melancholic blend].

*... yeah but I am an IxFx type and I am Melancholic...*
No, you are not. You will have a warmth (due to F) with people that the Melancholics lack. The Melancholic is a type that easily can point out errors in someones work or presentation (this is due to T, true for ISTJ/ISTP/INTJ/INTP), which you as an I_F_ type will be reluctant to do due to your preference for external (IFJ) or internal (IFP) harmony, making you Phlegmatic. Phlegmatics are the best listener types (typical of INFP) and also the most patient types (true for both INFP and INFJ, but also for ISFJ). Phlegmatics are like "water", searching for the even plane such that two opposing sides can meet eachother in the middle in harmony (very typical of INFJ).

*... I'm an ExFJ and I'm Choleric *
No, you are not. You don't lose your temper in front of people and call out their mistakes openly. You cannot do that (or it will be very rare for you to do that), your Fe dominance speaks against it. You want external harmony. You are a popular, social and amiable person due to Fe dominance which is the Sanguine temperament.

*Some other common misconceptions:*

- The four temperaments (Hippocrates) is *NOT* correlated with Keirsey's temperaments!
- The four temperaments (Hippocrates) is *NOT* defined based on sensing and intuition as all temperaments can be either sensors or intuitives!
- All leadership types are not Choleric (which is why ENFJ is Sanguine).
- All Choleric types are not J:s
- Please don't think about Sanguines as only impulsive and procrastinating [SP] - Sanguines are mainly people-pleasing and people-loving people. Sanguines are the people with the highest interpersonal intelligence of all types. I can never stop to be amazed and surprised of the enormous interpersonal intelligence of all Sanguines (who are ESFP/ENFP/ESFJ/ENFJ), they make you feel good when you talk to them. However, Sanguines don't like to talk deeply and they don't like to talk about the same subject for too long.
- Melancholics are mainly analytical types - therefore, all moody and gloomy types are* NOT* Melancholic!
- Sometimes Phlegmatics are characterized by certain authors as lazy and uninterested. This is so far from true! Phlegmatics can be incredibly intelligent and great leaders, but Phlegmatic leaders are usually more prone to be loving and/or spiritual leaders. If you are into spirituality, let me tell you that although Christian theologians generally attribute all temperaments to God - Jesus Christ was most likely of the Phlegmatic temperament and Jesus was also most likely an INFJ.

These are my theories and opinions based on reading lots of literature on the four temperaments, MBTI and Jungian Typology combined with my own observations. If you don't like it, well, it's only my view, you are free to have your own =)


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## Eric B

That diametric opposite temperaments can't be blended is just one limited version of the theory. It was Kant, IIRC, who only had the blends of adjacent temperaments, and then some online tests, such as 4Marks, took that version. But there's no reason to say that is the only “possible” set of combinations.

Especially when you realize that the blends are not just random strength rankings, as most of the tests make them, but rather a division of *social* and *leadership* traits. It's understandable to think opposite temperaments couldn't be mixed, if they were on the same footing, for you would be pulled two completely different ways in the same field of temperament “needs”, but the theory sorts at least two different areas of need, whare you can be any temperament in either area.

So the social area in type would be what's called “Interaction Styles”, and the leaderhip or “action” temperaments (called °conative”) are the Keirsey groups. Instead of introversion or extroversion, it's cooperative vs pragmatic, which true to the original definition of temperament factors, indicates the level of “expressiveness” or quickness (short “delay”) in interacting with others. “Organizational” is “structure focus“ (NT, SJ), and “relational” is “motive focus” (NF, SP).

So the blends of total opposites would be embodied in the ITP and EFJ groups. For the ENFJ, the social Choleric's expressiveness mixes with the NF's Feeling (and the “relational” people-focus it carries) to produce behavior that might look Sanguine (expressive + relational). But sorted according to social + action, they will have more of a Choleric “don't call me; I'll call you” attitude. That's the definition of Choleric, not “losing your temper in front of others”, which Sanguines do also; perhaps moreso than Cholerics, who are more likely to try to keep their composure. Also, the NF will temper the Choleric behaviors.

As for Melancholic, you're looking at the pure temperament (most embodied by tha ISTJ), and even then, defining the temperament by lack of “warmth” is not really accurate. Melancholic is simply reserved (low expression) and “organizational” (which is whore the “lack of warmth” you're describing would come from, and again, that's too generalistic). When mixed with Phlegmatic (either way, and this is not even a blend of diametric opposites, but rather a blend of the common introverts), this will soften the Melancholic traits, and even in both cases, give it the Feeling leaning of the Phlegmatic. So that's what the IFJ's are. That the INFJ is Melancholic on the social level is usually pretty evident from interacting with them, and part of the reason they often confuse as Thinkers (in addition to the tertiary Ti, but the tertiary alone will only do but so much).

S/N end up tying together the opposite temperaments on the conative level, and hence why it is a prominent factor in Keirsey's matrix. Sanguine and Melancholic or more sensory focused and yet the addition of the functions of type shows that they are different in the attitudes of Sensing (extraverted, being more open to new experience like the Sanguine, and introverted being more cautious and depending on what's already known, like the Melancholic). Cholerics and Phlegmatics are more intuitive, or “philosophizing” of their preferred judgment function, as even evidenced by your last statement on the Phlegmatic's intelligence.
Kant, while not llowing blends between the opposites, did have a factor related to perception tying them together, and this was like a forerunner to S/N.


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## compulsiverambler

ENTP. I usually score Sanguine first, phlegmatic second, occasionally phlegmatic first. Choleric usually third.


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## Black Scorpion

@TB_Wisdom I agree with most of what you wrote but I think *Phlegmatics are generally I_T_ while Melancholics are I_F_.* The second temperament makes a significant difference as well. I_F_'s second temperament tends to be Sanguine while I_T_'s second temperament is either choleric (INTJs & ISTPs) or melancholic(ISTJs & INTPs).


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## Rydori

I'm a Phlegmatic Chloeric ENFJ

is that an anomaly?


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## Eric B

NF=Phlegmatic (leadership); E[N]J=Choleric (social)


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## Turi

Phlegmatic/Melancholic according to some test I just took.

No clue what this means, yet.


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## Black Scorpion

Snowdori said:


> I'm a Phlegmatic/Choleric ENFJ
> 
> is that an anomaly?


Yes!.. because Phlegmatic is an introverted temperament. ENFJs are mainly sanguines or cholerics.. Phlegmatic/Sanguine and Phlegmatic/Choleric are more suitable for INFJs.


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## Eric B

But when taking a test using blends, they don't sort it out between *social* and *leadership*. When you say "introverted temperament", that's the "_social_" level, or Interaction style in type. An NF [a "_leadership_" temperament group] is "cooperative", which is what would match the Phlegmatic's "reserved"-ness in the leadership area.

So really, it should be Choleric-Phlegmatic, but if the person has a stronger leadership temperament, that might come out as strongest on that kind of test.

The INFJ would be the "I_F_ Melancholic" you mentioned. (Melancholic is otherwise usually a very "Thinking" temperament, though the ITJ's do have a tertiary Fi that may be prominent, especially in females). INFJ's may seem "Choleric" when angry, and being very blunt, but that's really the "directiveness" of the INJ Melancholic. I don't see how Sanguine would figure for them at all.


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## Black Scorpion

Eric B said:


> But when taking a test using blends, they don't sort it out between *social* and *leadership*. When you say "introverted temperament", that's the "_social_" level, or Interaction style in type. An NF [a "_leadership_" temperament group] is "cooperative", which is what would match the Phlegmatic's "reserved"-ness in the leadership area.
> 
> So really, it should be Choleric-Phlegmatic, but if the person has a stronger leadership temperament, that might come out as strongest on that kind of test.
> 
> The INFJ would be the "I_F_ Melancholic" you mentioned. (Melancholic is otherwise usually a very "Thinking" temperament, though the ITJ's do have a tertiary Fi that may be prominent, especially in females). INFJ's may seem "Choleric" when angry, and being very blunt, but that's really the "directiveness" of the INJ Melancholic. I don't see how Sanguine would figure for them at all.


Okay, first of all, I can't understand why you think Phlegmatic is a leadership temperament. Phlegmatic is an independent, individualistic, reserved, cerebral, calm, emotionally stable, rational temperament. They would make good intellectual leaders but the authentic leaders are the cholerics (The E_TJs). NFJs would be the social type of leaders with superiors, not the classical (NTJ) type of alpha leaders. I also wouldn't really say that cholerics are social (talkative).. They are extroverted (they are doers) but much less social (communicative) than the sanguines.
Oh, sorry.. I meant to say that I_FP's main temperament is melancholic (which means they constantly think in a nostalgic way of their past and of their bad life choices they've made.. or of the opportunities they've missed in life. They're the sensitive/sad/depressed type of people.) Fi doms (I_FPs) are mainly melancholic while Fe doms (E_FJs) are generally sanguine (social/talkative/friendly, etc). ISFJs also have the potential of being melancholic/sanguine.. because of their clash between Si (a melancholic function) and Fe (the most sanguine function).. but INFJ's main temperament should be (just like INTJ's main temp.) the phlegmatic temperament followed up by the Fe-social temperament: sanguine.
To be more specific: *Fi / Si doms = melancholics.
Ni / Ti doms = phlegmatics.
Fe / Ne doms = sanguines.
Te / Se doms = cholerics.* (with the exception of ESFPs who are in my opinion sanguines)
The second temperament makes a significant impact as well on someone's personality. For example an ENTJ (Te dom) is clearly choleric with phlegmatic as it's second temperament (because of it's Ni). An ENFJ on the other hand should firstly be sanguine (Fe), then phlegmatic (Ni) and then choleric (Se).


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## Eric B

OK, “leadership“ and “social” in that context are AREAS of temperament; not temperament _descriptions_. All four temperaments exist in both areas, and each person has one temperament in each area, which blend to form 16 combination that correspond to the types. The Keirsey temperaments (SP, SJ, NT, NF) are basically “leadership“ temperaments, and another preference group, called the Interaction Styles (ESF/ENP, ISF/INP, EST/ENJ, IST/INJ), are the social temperaments.
So yes; the Phlegmatic, in the leadership area is not going to be the "alpha" type leader like the Choleric, but will be the opposite, reserved, etc. But it is still a "style" of leadership.

I don't define the temperaments by general behaviors like “depressed“ or “social“. The temperaments are defined by the factors of expressiveness and responsiveness. On the social level, that's I/E and either T/F or J/P. On the leadership level, it's Keirey's “cooperative/pragmatic” (where the NT and SP are more “expressive” so to speak, in taking action, and SJ and NF less so); and structure (pairing SJ and NT), vs motive (SP and NF) are responsiveness (the criteria by which you allow othels to influence you).

The purest Phlegmatic, the INFP, has Si in the tertialy position, as does the INTP. The ISFP doesn't. But then the purest Melancholic, the ISTJ has Fi in the tertiary, so yes both Fi and/or Si may contribute to [stereotypical] “melancholic” behavior, and any Si preference (SJ types) will correspond to a Melancholic in the leadership area (i.e “the Guardian”) but again, the actual temperaments otherqise are formed by those two factors more than the functions. (There's also another temperament, Supine, which may substitute for Phlegmatic in any of the ISF, INP or, NF types, and it is a bit more emotionally energized and depressive like the Melancholic).


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## Black Scorpion

I have to agree with #TB_Wisdom there -> _"The four temperaments (Hippocrates) is NOT correlated with Keirsey's temperaments."_
I also noticed that on some websites, the melancholic temperament is mistaken for the phlegmatic temperament and viceversa which makes sense why #TB_Wisdom thinks that Ti doms (who are unemotional*) are melancholics while Fi doms (who are overly emotional*) are phlegmatics.

*In the psychology books the Phlegmatics are known for being analytical, wise, logical, cerebral, calculating, relaxed, insightful, having an unemotional ("cold") and stolidly calm disposition (being emotionally stable), for being focused on the future (having long term plans (having a "long vision" / thinking in the future)); not being easily excited to action or display of emotion, for appearing apathetic, sluggish, self-possessed, composed and pensive; They are naturally attuned to “the big picture” and cannot help but see how everything is interconnected. They have the ability to perceive deep patterns.. Phlegmatics are also known for being assertive and self confident.* I don't agree with the nowadays stereotype that Phlegmatics are (more) submissive (than the melancholics).. especially the phlegmatics with choleric as their second temperament (ISTP & INTJ). (P.S. Choleric is the most dominant temperament while INFPs are the purest melancholics, being overly emotional / unstable emotionally and the most submissive people / focused on the past.)










In here (below) you can see (on short) the comparison between the 4 temperaments: (of Hippocrates, not Keirsey! They are not correlated). Although I disagree with some stereotypes of the Phlegmatic temperament.
The Four Temperaments - Comparison <- yeah, the test in here has clearly confused the phlegmatic temperament with the melancholic temperament.


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## Eric B

Again, part of this stems from the confounding of Phlegmatic with an unknown fifth temperament that is more "submissive", and also, as I just said, has more of an emotional energy.

The reason why a fifth temperament is now being recognized by some, is, again, temperament is expressive and responsive, and Phlegmatic was recognized as MODERATE in both scales. That's what creates the "calm", un-"exciteable", emotionally "stable" characteristics. Temperament is energized "toward" and "away" from people in the two dimensions. Phlegmatics don't have this energy pushing them one way or the other, and hence are overall low in energy. They are also more notably stubborn, rather than totally submissive.
(And that fighunter site you linked to actually mentioned the fifth temperament on the "about" page, dismissing it as really the "traditional Phlegmatic", and that the neutral temperament of the five temperament system was some kind of Phlegmatic-Choleric blend. 
So I agree, he's mixed up the Phlegmatic, though not with Melancholic, but with that fifth temperament he denies).

But since the fifth temperament was not recognized anciently, Phlegmatic originally fell into the position of introverted (low expressive; energized inwardly and "away" from approaching people) and "people-focused" (high responsive, energized "toward" wanting from people). Some of the overall behaviors are similar, such as a general "amiability" and passivity. (If a Phlegmatic does act submissive, it's to conserve energy and take "the path of least resistance", but are often more stubborn). 
So when mapped to a four-temperament/four InteractionStyle typology, they can be treated as the same, and will explain some variation in the ISF, INP and NF groups, such as INTP's seeming more Feelerish, and INFP's seeming more Thinkerish. (Leon Tsao on YouTube, who used to host our NYC type meetups, is a likely example).
I would also allow that any other Keirsey group or Interaction Style could cross over to the Phlegmatic range, which would represent the moderate extreme form of the other temperament. But in general, it does most closely match ISF, INP and NF. 

(And while Interaction Styles more match Galen, Keirsey temperament is derived from Plato, which is why it seems they don't correlate as well. But the key to that is that Galen represented "social" temperament, and Plato represents "leadership"; his "four kinds of men" basically being vocational. Keirsey had made the NT Phlegmatic because of its "calm", "rational" appearance, but that's really more a social trait, and would fit Interaction Styles more. 
But still, the common thread is "expressiveness" and "responsiveness", so that's how they correlate).


----------



## TB_Wisdom

Black Scorpion said:


> @TB_Wisdom I agree with most of what you wrote but I think *Phlegmatics are generally I_T_ while Melancholics are I_F_.* The second temperament makes a significant difference as well. I_F_'s second temperament tends to be Sanguine while I_T_'s second temperament is either choleric (INTJs & ISTPs) or melancholic(ISTJs & INTPs).


Maybe its easier to see with some analysis of traits:

*Phlegmatic: *The symbol of water which constantly seeks its own level, the calm sea can be deceptive at the surface but underneath their are dangerous and violent undercurrents. _"Mentally and emotionally, Phlegmatic people appear to be for the most part flat and uninteresting, featureless and unexiting. But they, like the oceans themselves, have hidden depths which conceal a whole world which is hidden to others, and remains so - except to the favoured few to whom they allow the privilege of exploring them." _

Traits: Relaxed, quiet, warm/lazily sluggish, likes unity and meditation, calm, collected, tolerant of others, well-balanced, sympathetic, kind, unassuring, keeps emotions hidden, avoids conflicts, keeps energy within him/herself, etc.

*Melancholic: *The symbol of Earth. Walking with a serious downward gaze, as if they are carrying the weight of the world on their shoulders. _"Being introverted like the phlegmatics, who are preoccupied with their sense of bodily well-being, melancholics are more engrossed in matters of the mind. Phlegmatics are stable in their characteristics, but by contrast melancholics are unstable". _

Traits: Introverted and thoughtful, melancholics are often called "the thinker" and are serious, cautious, pessimistic, purposeful, analytical, musical and artistic, self-sacrificing, conscientious, idealistic, philosophical, etc.

I think the above-mentioned descriptions should make it clearer why Melancholics generally speaking are I_T_ and Phlegmatics I_F_

_*Sources:* Citations from Dr Gilbert Childs "Understand your Temperament", Dr Ekstrand, Alex Carberry, etc._


----------



## TB_Wisdom

Snowdori said:


> I'm a Phlegmatic Chloeric ENFJ
> 
> is that an anomaly?


Yeah, its wrong. Sorry mate, don't mean to offend you but theres a lot of conflicting things going on here.

First, you claim to be an ENFJ. Second, you claim to be an Enneagram-8. Third, a Phlegmatic temperament. Mate, these types are three completely separate temperaments.

- The enneagram-8 is the strongest enneagram version of your typical Choleric temperament. All enneagram-8 are choleric. Just like all ENTJs are choleric. Big surprise that ENTJ:s usually end up scoring as enneagram-8:s. Traits: Domineering, decisive, leadership like, structured, organized, etc. The function present here is Te, or Te-dominance (E_TJ).

- The Phlegmatic is introverted, people-oriented, calm, patient, a good listener. Think of your typical I_F_ type, particularly INFP and INFJ.

- The ENFJ is outgoing, people-oriented, high level of interpersonal intelligence and EQ, visionary, leadership-like (in a feeling-sense, not a thinking-sense), outgoing, etc. This is your typical Sanguine temperament, or Sanguine/Choleric (second).

Which one are you? You cannot be dominant in three separate temperaments at once...

One more note on the Enneagram-MBTI relation: There is no symmetric relation between MBTI and the Enneagram. However, there are certain relationships. Some MBTI types are prone to usually be one or another of the Enneagram types (examples, ESFP and Type 7, INTP and Type 5, ENTJ and Type 8, etc.). Some are inbetween (myself for example, I am INTJ type 1). But some are just not possible (you cannot be an ESFP and an Enneagram type 5, or an INTJ and an enneagram type 7, etc.). Being an ENFJ/ESFJ and an Enneagram type 8 is also not possible.


----------



## Eric B

Type consists of both temperament and Interaction style. ENJ is "In Charge", which is Choleric, or 8-ish, and so the ENFJ (along with the ENTJ) will gravitate, in part, to some 8-like tendencies.


Choleric may lean toward Thinking, While Sangune or Phlegmatic will lean towad Feeling. So ENFJ will be a blend of Choleric and Phlegmatic (which is what the person said), and because she is still an extravert, the blend will also produce some Sanguine appearance. But on a strictly "social" level, she will have a higher criteria for acceptance of others (which is what really separates the Choleric from the Sanguine). The Feeling for an NFJ is not connected with their social skills, but rather their "leadership" style, which is where they will be "people-oriented, calm, patient, a good listener".


Personality Hacker has a page showing all 9 Enneagram types for all 16 types, and then, I hear Enneagram might not be inborn type, so I think that our inborn type (represented by type/temperament) will gravitate to certain Enneatypes, things can change it. Also, in the full theory I talk about, there is a third area after social and leadership, where you can be another temperament, and so that can figure in Enneatype as well.


----------



## Sily

TB_Wisdom said:


> ...
> 
> *Phlegmatic: *The symbol of water which constantly seeks its own level, the calm sea can be deceptive at the surface but underneath their are dangerous and violent undercurrents. _"Mentally and emotionally, Phlegmatic people appear to be for the most part flat and uninteresting, featureless and unexiting. But they, like the oceans themselves, have hidden depths which conceal a whole world which is hidden to others, and remains so - except to the favoured few to whom they allow the privilege of exploring them." ..._
> _*Sources:* Citations from Dr Gilbert Childs "Understand your Temperament", Dr Ekstrand, Alex Carberry, etc._


_*That*_ is absolutely beautiful. 

I swear to god, I'm going to try and order, that book. Ooooo... it's on google books.

_Wow_ - Dr. Childs - you made my day. :happy:


----------



## Rydori

TB_Wisdom said:


> Yeah, its wrong. Sorry mate, don't mean to offend you but theres a lot of conflicting things going on here.
> 
> First, you claim to be an ENFJ. Second, you claim to be an Enneagram-8. Third, a Phlegmatic temperament. Mate, these types are three completely separate temperaments.
> 
> - The enneagram-8 is the strongest enneagram version of your typical Choleric temperament. All enneagram-8 are choleric. Just like all ENTJs are choleric. Big surprise that ENTJ:s usually end up scoring as enneagram-8:s. Traits: Domineering, decisive, leadership like, structured, organized, etc. The function present here is Te, or Te-dominance (E_TJ).
> 
> - The Phlegmatic is introverted, people-oriented, calm, patient, a good listener. Think of your typical I_F_ type, particularly INFP and INFJ.
> 
> - The ENFJ is outgoing, people-oriented, high level of interpersonal intelligence and EQ, visionary, leadership-like (in a feeling-sense, not a thinking-sense), outgoing, etc. This is your typical Sanguine temperament, or Sanguine/Choleric (second).
> 
> Which one are you? You cannot be dominant in three separate temperaments at once...
> 
> One more note on the Enneagram-MBTI relation: There is no symmetric relation between MBTI and the Enneagram. However, there are certain relationships. Some MBTI types are prone to usually be one or another of the Enneagram types (examples, ESFP and Type 7, INTP and Type 5, ENTJ and Type 8, etc.). Some are inbetween (myself for example, I am INTJ type 1). But some are just not possible (you cannot be an ESFP and an Enneagram type 5, or an INTJ and an enneagram type 7, etc.). Being an ENFJ/ESFJ and an Enneagram type 8 is also not possible.


What exactly do you mean an "EXFJ" can't be ennegram 8? It is prominant in me and there is absolute no way I'm an ENTJ, ask anyone around here and you'll get no, not an ENTJ but an ENFJ. Not to bust your case but Chloeric is more of my dominant over Phleg even though are both are quite close to each other. You got to remember the 4 temperament system was design DURING ANCIENT GREEK time. Of course there's going to be a clash between types and temperaments because the temperament system is so damn outdated. As for it's not physically possible for an EXFJ to be ennegram 8, any type can have a certain ennegram and are not locked into certain descriptions.


----------



## Black Scorpion

Eric B said:


> Again, part of this stems from the confounding of Phlegmatic with an unknown fifth temperament that is more "submissive", and also, as I just said, has more of an emotional energy.
> The reason why a fifth temperament is now being recognized by some, is, again, temperament is expressive and responsive, and Phlegmatic was recognized as MODERATE in both scales. That's what creates the "calm", un-"exciteable", emotionally "stable" characteristics. Temperament is energized "toward" and "away" from people in the two dimensions. Phlegmatics don't have this energy pushing them one way or the other, and hence are overall low in energy. They are also more notably stubborn, rather than totally submissive.
> (And that fighunter site you linked to actually mentioned the fifth temperament on the "about" page, dismissing it as really the "traditional Phlegmatic", and that the neutral temperament of the five temperament system was some kind of Phlegmatic-Choleric blend.
> So I agree, he's mixed up the Phlegmatic, though not with Melancholic, but with that fifth temperament he denies).
> But since the fifth temperament was not recognized anciently, Phlegmatic originally fell into the position of introverted (low expressive; energized inwardly and "away" from approaching people) and "people-focused" (high responsive, energized "toward" wanting from people). Some of the overall behaviors are similar, such as a general "amiability" and passivity. (If a Phlegmatic does act submissive, it's to conserve energy and take "the path of least resistance", but are often more stubborn).


Yes! I agree with all of that. It seems nowadays that the fifth(new/"artificial"/"fake"/unoriginal/made-up) temperament is associated (replaced) with the phlegmatic temperament while the "neutral temperament"(the original phlegmatic temperament) is not considered one of the 4 temperaments anymore.. (Lol) Which makes perfect sense why NFs are labeled as "phlegmatics" by "newbies".. but they're not true/original phlegmatics (with the exception of INFJs -> due to their Ni -> a phlegmatic function), they fall under the 5th temperament, somewhere between the phlegmatic and melancholic temperament.

The traits (that you listed above) of the original phlegmatic temperament can not be mainly found in NF personality types.. with the exception of the INFJs.. but INFJs are very different from the other (highly introverted) phlegmatics (INTPs, ISTPs, INTJs) because of their auxiliary function (Fe - which is the most sanguine/social function - which often makes them appear extroverted since they do socialize a lot - and the only auxiliary feeling function of a phlegmatic). INFJs are the so called "social introverts" or "ambiverts" or "emotional phlegmatics". (Melancholics are not social introverts. They're rather asocial introverts.) The rest of phlegmatics (INTPs, ISTPs and INTJs) have a much lower need of socializing than INFJs.. INTPs are the 2nd most sociable phlegmatics because of their Ne (the 2nd sanguine function)
I'm definitely rambling now. I'll get to the point.


> *Fi / Si doms = mainly melancholics.
> Ni / Ti doms = mainly phlegmatics.
> Fe / Ne doms = mainly sanguines.
> Te / Se doms = mainly cholerics.*


_(^Had to mention again the "formula" of calculating the mixture of temperaments of a certain personality type.^)_

*A personality type is not having only a single temperament. Every personality type is usually having a mixture of 3 temperaments. Let's take INFJs for example: Their first temperament is Phlegmatic (Ni), 2nd is Sanguine (Fe), 3rd should be (again) phlegmatic (Ti) and 4th is choleric (Se). The melancholic temperament shouldn't exist into a mentally healthy INFJ personality type.. meanwhile an INFP is firstly melancholic (Fi), 2nd sanguine (Ne), 3rd (again) melancholic (Si) and 4th choleric (Te). In my case my first temperament is phlegmatic (Ni), 2nd is choleric (Te), 3rd is melancholic (Fi) and 4th is again choleric (Se). Sanguine is nonexistent. * @TB_Wisdom 
I found a test (an old one) who still has the original phlegmatic temperament in it:
https://openpsychometrics.org/tests/O4TS/1.php



> The phlegmatic temperament is fundamentally relaxed and quiet, ranging from warmly attentive to lazily sluggish. Phlegmatics tend to be content with themselves and are kind. They are accepting and affectionate. They may be receptive and shy and often prefer stability to uncertainty and change. They are consistent, relaxed, calm, rational, curious, and observant. They can also be passive-aggressive.
> 
> The melancholic temperament is fundamentally introverted and thoughtful. Melancholic people often were perceived as very (or overly) pondering and considerate, getting rather worried when they could not be on time for events. Melancholics can be highly creative in activities such as poetry and art - and can become preoccupied with the tragedy and cruelty in the world. Often they are perfectionists. They are self-reliant and independent; one negative part of being a melancholic is that they can get so involved in what they are doing they forget to think of others.


Come on, there's a distinctive difference between the two introverted temperaments (not so much between melancholic and the 5th temperament who is nowadays mistaken for phlegmatic)! INFPs and ISFs are clearly melancholics due to their introverted feelings (obsessing over their personal feelings and emotions) or introverted sensing (obsessing over their past). But their 2nd and 3rd temperament makes them different from other melancholics.


----------



## Black Scorpion

Eric B said:


> Choleric may lean toward Thinking, While Sanguine or Phlegmatic will lean towards Feeling.


Lol, so you still associate Phlegmatics with NFs.. *It's not about the individual letters of a certain personality type. It has always been only about the functions.* (and by the way, the sanguines and the melancholics are the emotional ones.. hence the words sanguine (correlated to blood/heart) and melancholia (deep sadness, nostalgia or gloom). Cholerics are also known for having extreme mood swings and experience negative-intense emotions very often. The phlegmatics are the only ones who appear emotionless.. Also the emotionally stable ones are sanguines and phlegmatics. Maybe this is what you meant.)

*Anyways, ENFJs should normally have a blend of these 3 temperaments: 1. sanguine (due to Fe), 2. phlegmatic (due to Ni) and 3. choleric (due to Se) but she's having 1. Choleric (Te) 2. Phlegmatic (Ni), 3. Melancholic (maybe?) (Fi) like an ENTJ.*


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## Mone

Meh, I used to be a pure phlegmatic, nowaday I'd see myself more as an choleric. But sanguine? Nah, bullshit.


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## Eric B

Black Scorpion said:


> Yes! I agree with all of that. It seems nowadays that the fifth(new/"artificial"/"fake"/unoriginal/made-up) temperament is associated (replaced) with the phlegmatic temperament while the "neutral temperament"(the original phlegmatic temperament) is not considered one of the 4 temperaments anymore.. (Lol) Which makes perfect sense why NFs are labeled as "phlegmatics" by "newbies".. but they're not true/original phlegmatics (with the exception of INFJs -> due to their Ni -> a phlegmatic function), they fall under the 5th temperament, somewhere between the phlegmatic and melancholic temperament.
> 
> The traits (that you listed above) of the original phlegmatic temperament can not be mainly found in NF personality types.. with the exception of the INFJs.. but INFJs are very different from the other (highly introverted) phlegmatics (INTPs, ISTPs, INTJs) because of their auxiliary function (Fe - which is the most sanguine/social function - which often makes them appear extroverted since they do socialize a lot - and the only auxiliary feeling function of a phlegmatic). INFJs are the so called "social introverts" or "ambiverts" or "emotional phlegmatics". (Melancholics are not social introverts. They're rather asocial introverts.) The rest of phlegmatics (INTPs, ISTPs and INTJs) have a much lower need of socializing than INFJs.. INTPs are the 2nd most sociable phlegmatics because of their Ne (the 2nd sanguine function)
> I'm definitely rambling now. I'll get to the point.
> 
> _(^Had to mention again the "formula" of calculating the mixture of temperaments of a certain personality type.^)_
> 
> *A personality type is not having only a single temperament. Every personality type is usually having a mixture of 3 temperaments. Let's take INFJs for example: Their first temperament is Phlegmatic (Ni), 2nd is Sanguine (Fe), 3rd should be (again) phlegmatic (Ti) and 4th is choleric (Se). The melancholic temperament shouldn't exist into a mentally healthy INFJ personality type.. meanwhile an INFP is firstly melancholic (Fi), 2nd sanguine (Ne), 3rd (again) melancholic (Si) and 4th choleric (Te). In my case my first temperament is phlegmatic (Ni), 2nd is choleric (Te), 3rd is melancholic (Fi) and 4th is again choleric (Se). Sanguine is nonexistent. * @*TB_Wisdom*
> I found a test (an old one) who still has the original phlegmatic temperament in it:
> https://openpsychometrics.org/tests/O4TS/1.php
> 
> Come on, there's a distinctive difference between the two introverted temperaments (not so much between melancholic and the 5th temperament who is nowadays mistaken for phlegmatic)! INFPs and ISFs are clearly melancholics due to their introverted feelings (obsessing over their personal feelings and emotions) or introverted sensing (obsessing over their past). But their 2nd and 3rd temperament makes them different from other melancholics.





Black Scorpion said:


> Lol, so you still associate Phlegmatics with NFs.. *It's not about the individual letters of a certain personality type. It has always been only about the functions.* (and by the way, the sanguines and the melancholics are the emotional ones.. hence the words sanguine (correlated to blood/heart) and melancholia (deep sadness, nostalgia or gloom). Cholerics are also known for having extreme mood swings and experience negative-intense emotions very often. The phlegmatics are the only ones who appear emotionless.. Also the emotionally stable ones are sanguines and phlegmatics. Maybe this is what you meant.)
> 
> *Anyways, ENFJs should normally have a blend of these 3 temperaments: 1. sanguine (due to Fe), 2. phlegmatic (due to Ni) and 3. choleric (due to Se) but she's having 1. Choleric (Te) 2. Phlegmatic (Ni), 3. Melancholic (maybe?) (Fi) like an ENTJ.*


I don't believe the temperaments are determined strictly by functions like that, though there are two exceptions, and some different degrees of correlation elsewhere.
Temperament was originally determined not by "cognitive functions", but by *expressiveness and responsiveness*. Back when the old "humor" concept was conceived it was known in the form of element temperature: "warm" (E) vs "cold" (I) and texture: "moist" (people focus) vs "dry" (task focus). 

Jung did not accept this old model, and so came up with a totally different system, based on functions, so there wasn't a direct correlation. But when Myers (who was originally trying to create a new "four type" system similar to the temperaments, but then modified it as she incorporated Jung into it) turned it into "letter" dichotomies, then I and E would match temperature, and it would figure that both T/F and J/P would match texture, though it wasn't until Keirsey came out with his "intelligence Variants" (the last three letter groups, introduced in _Portraits of Temperament_), and then Berens completed the Interaction styles from them, that this became really evident.

Temperament (according to the theory I hold) exists on three levels (social, leadership, deep personal relationships), and two of them map right on the existing Keirsey temperaments and Interaction Styles of type. That's why letter combinations correspond to the temperaments better. 
As for the NF, the mistake being made is not recognizing these two levels of temperament, and looking for Phlegmatic *social* traits in the NF, and then figuring it doesn't fit. That's what you're doing now; (associating the INFJ's "phlegmatic" traits with Ni, but Ni is not Phlegmatic; it's too task-focused or "dry" according to the old terms). But NF is the "_leadership_" area, and the NF's "cooperativeness" fits the Phlegmatic's "coolness", and the temperament is people-focused, which also matches the Phlegmatic. (Keirsey even deemed it having the "Diplomatic" skills-set, also matching the classic Phlegmatic, [even as he himself said it was Choleric because of the "emotion"]).

That's what temperament is plotted by, not "sadness" or "emotion"; at least not in the way you have it. If you must use emotion (and keep in mind, these are broad stereotypes), then Melancholic "sad" (reserved, critical); Choleric "angry"; (expressive, critical); Sanguine "joyous"; (expressive, agreeable), and Phlegmatic's "calm" would be "reserved, agreeable". So you see there, even regarding "emotions", the common underlying thread of the expressiveness/responsiveness factors.

Two of the letter combinations also correspond directly to function-attitudes; and those are SP and SJ, which are the Sanguine and the Melancholic, but in the area of leadership. The Keirsey temperaments are considered "conative", meaning "dealing with action" (and thus, by extension, "leadership"). 
Sanguine and Melancholic were originally considered diametric opposite, as one is reserved and task focused, and the other was expressive and people-focused; but Immanuel Kant tied together Sanguine and Melancholic as what he called "Beauty Perceivers", which would basically prefigure the Sensory focus held in common by the two Keirsey groups, and would also cover what you and some others are considering the "emotional" focus of the two. 

Merely "being emotional" does not indicate the Feeling _function_ (and especially not one attitude in particular; i.e. introverted). That is a common mistake many make, and why so many often struggle determining their T/F preference. For one; as I've said, between Fi and Si, the INFP (purest Phlegmatic or 5th temperament) and ISTJ (purest Melancholic) have each other's dominant as the other's tertiary, so that's why those two temperaments in their purest form will have a prominent Fi and Si. But the two functions are not what make the temperament.

Other correlations: 
Te being always "directive" (task focused) in a preferred position; Choleric when dominant; Melancholic when aux.
Fi always being "informative" (people-focused) when preferred; Phlegmatic or 5th temperament when dom. Sanguine when aux.
Ni and Ne figuring in Interaction style; Ni always "directive"; Ne always "informative"

Fe is not the most Sanguine; as a "J" function (extraverted Judgment) it has a strong measure of "task-focus" (though that seems hard to believe, since they are the most "outwardly" focused on "people"). It can be like a softer version of Te. Je is about arranging the environment, (tasks) where Ji[Pe] is less so, and thus more people-focused. It's just that Fe's "tasks" are more directly considering of people that Te's tasks.
When tied with S_, Fe will be people-focused on the social level, but structure focused on the conative level, which gives it more of a critical edge than SeFi (and I live with FeSi, so I know first hand). Ni, on the other hand, will make it directive on the social level, and more people ["motive"—Berens]-focused on the conative level.
Ti is the flipside, being an introverted judgment (P), having a softer edge than Te.

This actually explains a lot of other aspects of type, such as TP's and FJ's being so "enigmatic", and often unsure of their type. TP's and FJ's are a mix of responsive behaviors, and NTP and NFJ in particular, are reverse of what you would expect on t he social level. Most F's (either attitude) are "informative", except for the NFJ's; hence them being a bit tougher on the surface, and seeming like T's, and most T's are directive, except NTP's, who are a bit softer in communication, and often confuse as F's.

I never said that Phlegmatic was not considered a temperament anymore; but of interest is that some time ago, people were considering it as "absence of temperament". That's because, it's not driven one way or the other in expressiveness and responsiveness like the others. But inasmuch as "temperament" simply means "disposition", then people without those drives are still left with a resulting "disposition", and thus can be said to have a temperament. What's called the "5th" temperament then is simply another disposition, that is more reserved and more people focused than the phlegmatic, but otherwise, can fit the same slot in a four temperament matrix. It will be good for explaining more or less energized versions of the ISF, INP and NF groups, which do seem to be evident._


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## Eric B

Mone said:


> Meh, I used to be a pure phlegmatic, nowaday I'd see myself more as an choleric. But sanguine? Nah, bullshit.


ENTP is the blend of Sanguine and Choleric (and this is one of the most consistent matches), which are similar in being very expressive. So it's easy for them to meld together so that you don't recognize the Sanguine aspects. Perhaps, to try to get a sense of that, just compare yourself, behaviorally (particularly socially) to an ENTJ.


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## Temizzle

TB_Wisdom said:


> Yeah, its wrong. Sorry mate, don't mean to offend you but theres a lot of conflicting things going on here.
> 
> First, you claim to be an ENFJ. Second, you claim to be an Enneagram-8. Third, a Phlegmatic temperament. Mate, these types are three completely separate temperaments.
> 
> - The enneagram-8 is the strongest enneagram version of your typical Choleric temperament. All enneagram-8 are choleric. Just like all ENTJs are choleric. Big surprise that ENTJ:s usually end up scoring as enneagram-8:s. Traits: Domineering, decisive, leadership like, structured, organized, etc. The function present here is Te, or Te-dominance (E_TJ).
> 
> - The Phlegmatic is introverted, people-oriented, calm, patient, a good listener. Think of your typical I_F_ type, particularly INFP and INFJ.
> 
> - The ENFJ is outgoing, people-oriented, high level of interpersonal intelligence and EQ, visionary, leadership-like (in a feeling-sense, not a thinking-sense), outgoing, etc. This is your typical Sanguine temperament, or Sanguine/Choleric (second).
> 
> Which one are you? You cannot be dominant in three separate temperaments at once...
> 
> One more note on the Enneagram-MBTI relation: There is no symmetric relation between MBTI and the Enneagram. However, there are certain relationships. Some MBTI types are prone to usually be one or another of the Enneagram types (examples, ESFP and Type 7, INTP and Type 5, ENTJ and Type 8, etc.). Some are inbetween (myself for example, I am INTJ type 1). But some are just not possible (you cannot be an ESFP and an Enneagram type 5, or an INTJ and an enneagram type 7, etc.). *Being an ENFJ/ESFJ and an Enneagram type 8 is also not possible.*


While I agree with you that Rydori is unlikely an 8, I disagree with you that ENFJ + 8 is not a viable option in reality. 

Please explain your reasoning and/or your evidence for the bolded.


----------



## Turi

Temizzle said:


> While I agree with you that Rydori is unlikely an 8, I disagree with you that ENFJ + 8 is not a viable option in reality.
> 
> Please explain your reasoning and/or your evidence for the bolded.


Type 8 fits ExFJ types beautifully, imo:



> The strengths of healthy Eights are based on a tremendous vitality and a keen intuition that can see possibilities in situations and in people that others often miss. They feel strong and capable, and can use their immense self-confidence, courage, and leadership abilities to inspire others to great accomplishments.
> 
> Average Eights, however, tend to dominate everything in the environment too aggressively, asserting themselves impulsively and indulging their instinctual needs for control and satisfaction without much regard for the consequences.
> 
> 
> Unhealthy Eights relate to their environment as bullies and tyrants, ruthlessly tearing down anyone and anything that stands in their way.


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## Snowfrost918

Black Scorpion said:


> Lol, so you still associate Phlegmatics with NFs.. *It's not about the individual letters of a certain personality type. It has always been only about the functions.* (and by the way, the sanguines and the melancholics are the emotional ones.. hence the words sanguine (correlated to blood/heart) and melancholia (deep sadness, nostalgia or gloom). Cholerics are also known for having extreme mood swings and experience negative-intense emotions very often. The phlegmatics are the only ones who appear emotionless.. Also the emotionally stable ones are sanguines and phlegmatics. Maybe this is what you meant.)
> 
> *Anyways, ENFJs should normally have a blend of these 3 temperaments: 1. sanguine (due to Fe), 2. phlegmatic (due to Ni) and 3. choleric (due to Se) but she's having 1. Choleric (Te) 2. Phlegmatic (Ni), 3. Melancholic (maybe?) (Fi) like an ENTJ.*


how is phlegmatic correlated to Ni?


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## faithhealing

Melancholy first, then to a lesser extent Phlegmatic. That's spot on for me.


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## Rafiki

I got melancholic/sanguine, or ISTP.
It's not a type i've considered much for myself, but I have been told that 1ce or twice before. ESTP as well.


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## blackpants

Perfect


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## blackpants

Not perfect I'll take again


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## The Conundrum

Choleric/Phlegmatic -> Melancholic ----> Sanguine


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## Varyafiriel

INFJ: Melancholic --> Phlegmatic --> Choleric --------------------> Sanguine


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## Kaioken

I could see melancholy over phlegmatism for INTPs? Same for INFPs.


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## Kaioken

http://temperaments.fighunter.com/?page=phlegmatic

It clearly doesn't define INP types at all. I could be mean and generalizing but it would suit ISFJs and ISTJs more. (especially ISFJs)


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## Black Scorpion

Snowfrost918 said:


> how is phlegmatic correlated to Ni?


Well, there are 4 introverted functions (Ti, Ni, Fi, Si) and 2 introverted temperaments (phlegmatic and melancholic).
Ti and Ni are very similar.. It's introverted thinking, except Ti is focused on the present while Ni is focused on the future.
Fi and Si are similar. It's about introverted feelings, emotions and life experiences and they're focused on the past.
Phlegmatics don't think in the past. They focus their thinking on present and/or future. Phlegmatics (Ti-dom and Ni-dom) also have the highest IQs of all 4 temperaments. I don't get how lately melancholics got the reputation of being intellectuals (highly intelligent people). 15 years ago when I first learned about the 4 temperaments from psychology books, the melancholics were considered the biggest emotional losers. Being driven mostly by your negative emotions & feelings and allowing yourself to be traumatized or influenced by your bad life experiences is not a sign of intelligence, nor logic. Melancholics are not even capable of holding a rational conversation without getting offended due to their intense (negative) emotions (Fi) and/or due to their hyper sensitivity (Si).

I'm all ears in case you have a better explanation regarding the 4 introverted functions in correlation with the 2 introverted temperaments. Which are the 2 phlegmatic functions according to you?

*I feel obligated to give some examples of people with these 2 introverted temperaments. Maybe this will help you understand better the differences between these 2 introverted temperaments.*

*Phlegmatics (Ti doms and Ni doms): * Isaac Newton (Physicist); Karl Marx (Philosopher); Abraham Lincoln (U.S. President); Albert Einstein (Physicist); Charles Darwin (Biologist); Parmenides (Greek philosopher); Friedrich Nietzsche (Philosopher); Mark Zuckerberg (CEO of Facebook); Elon Musk (Founder of SpaceX, Tesla Motors, etc); Bobby Fischer (Chess champion); Nikola Tesla (Inventor); Thucydides (Greek historian); Jimmy Wales (Founder of Wikipedia); Stephen Hawking (Physicist); John Nash (Mathematician); Isaac Asimov; Christopher Hitchens (Journalist); Bill Gates (some say he's an ENTJ but he's clearly an INTP); Heraclitus (Greek philosopher); Jean-Paul Sartre (Philosopher); Larry Page and Sergey Brin (Founders of Google); Albert Speer (Minister of Armaments in Nazi Germany); G.W.F. Hegel (Philosopher); Vladimir Lenin (Dictator of the Soviet Union); Carl Gustav Jung (Psychiatrist); Plato (Philosopher); Mahatma Gandhi (he may be a melancholic INFP though); Arthur Schopenhauer (Philosopher); Fyodor Dostoevsky; Adolf Hitler; Osama bin Laden. Now ISTPs are a little different than the other 3 types of Phlegmatics because of their auxiliary function (Se - a sensory choleric function) while INFJs are different for being the only phlegmatic feelers. Anyways, even with Se as their auxiliary function there still are decent phlegmatic examples of ISTPs: Erwin Rommel (World War II general); Steve Jobs; Jack Dorsey (Founder of Twitter); Diogenes the Dog (Greek philosopher); Vladimir Putin and Bruce Lee.

*Melancholics (Fi doms and Si doms):* C.S. Lewis (Author of 'The Chronicles of Narnia'); J.R.R. Tolkien (Author of 'The Lord of the Rings'); A. A. Milne (Author of 'Winnie The Pooh'); J.K. Rowling (Author of the 'Harry Potter' series); Vincent van Gogh; William Shakespeare; Homer (Author of 'The Iliad' and 'The Odyssey'); Johnny Depp; Most Poets who wrote about their deep feelings instead of their deep thoughts (they're too many to write them all); Nero (Emperor of Rome); Michael Jackson; Prince (Singer-songwriter); Mick Jagger (Rolling Stones); Justin Timberlake; Nicole Kidman; Princess Diana; Rihanna; "Skrillex"; George H.W. Bush (U.S. President, father of George W. Bush and Jeb Bush); Marcus Aurelius (Roman philosopher and Emperor); Mother Teresa (Catholic nun); Heinrich Himmler(Minister of the Interior in Nazi Germany); Francisco Franco (Dictator of Fascist Spain); Christopher Walken (Actor); 50 Cent(Rapper); Tiger Woods; Bruce Willis; Now ISTJs are a little more cerebral/rational for being the only melancholic thinkers: Augustus(Emperor of Rome); George Washington (U.S. President); Thomas Hobbes(Philosopher); Sigmund Freud (Psychoanalyst, mentor of Jung and Adler); Xenophon (Greek historian, student of Socrates); Joseph Ratzinger (Pope); Angela Merkel (Chancellor of Germany); Morgan Freeman; Robert De Niro; Sean Connery; Elizabeth II (Queen of England) and Matt Damon.

P.S. In my opinion, a significant percentage of ISTJs and INFJs are the exception to the "rule". Some ISTJs may be more phlegmatic than melancholic (like the rest of introverted thinkers) while some INFJs may be more melancholic than phlegmatic (like the rest of introverted feelers).

_I hope you now have a better view about the differences between the phlegmatic and melancholic temperament._


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## TB_Wisdom

Brick said:


> What exactly do you mean an "EXFJ" can't be ennegram 8? It is prominant in me and there is absolute no way I'm an ENTJ, ask anyone around here and you'll get no, not an ENTJ but an ENFJ. Not to bust your case but Chloeric is more of my dominant over Phleg even though are both are quite close to each other. You got to remember the 4 temperament system was design DURING ANCIENT GREEK time. Of course there's going to be a clash between types and temperaments because the temperament system is so damn outdated. As for it's not physically possible for an EXFJ to be ennegram 8, any type can have a certain ennegram and are not locked into certain descriptions.


I'll try to respond as well and as summarized as I can.

First, check out the following study for MBTI/Enneagram correlation. Look up ENFJ and Type 8. It's not a perfect study, the subjects can have been mistyped, but it should give an indication of what's a likely relation between the MBTI and the Enneagram. Out of 118 ENFJs (self-typed), only 1 (=0,8%) identified as an Enneagram Type 8 whilst 41,5% identified as Enneagram Type 2. Those statistics should indicate something ...
https://www.typologycentral.com/wiki/index.php/Enneagram_and_MBTI_Correlation

Second, typology is not as complex or mystical as people make it. Why it's mystical is because people simply don't have enough knowledge of themselves (how they appear to other people, i.e. how they appear in the external world) to accurately answer e.g. an MBTI test to get the proper result. We have all been there, I was there myself and I was mistyped. I thought internally (in the introverted world) that I was something that I wasn't. Thus got mistyped as a Choleric/ENTJ, but I'm in reality a Melancholic/INTJ. Other people have always seen me as shy, sensitive and inward. Therefore, I am lieing to myself if I claim to be an extraverted type (and I was back then, but I am not anymore...). This is not my own words, its confirmed by many typologist, e.g. the RHETI book on the Enneagram claims to be the most accurate Enneagram test and they state the #1 mistyping reason as lack of enough self knowledge to answer the test according to how you really are.

A side-note: Sometimes, the overly mystification of typology gets under my nerves. Particularly certain INFJs who claim to be "mystically" more or less good at everything, i.e., God-like. When a certain person sees herself as "perfect" or "good at everything", you know the person suffers from a lack of self-knowledge and lives in denial, i.e., does not want to accept the Shadow personality (as Jung put it).

Third, certain functions simply manifest in certain typical traits and behaviors. We can't observe a cognitive function (e.g. Fe, Te, Ni, ...), we can only observe behaviors that are typically associated with a certain mental process i.e. cognitive function. All Enneagram types manifest typical behaviors. Type 8 is an anger-based type who manifests anger outward to the world and takes the form of being domineering, decisive, assertive, etc. These traits are a text book example of a Choleric temperament. These traits are also clear evidence of a dominant extraverted thinking function (Te, or E_TJ). Obviously, if you are dominant in extraverted feeling (ESFJ,ENFJ) - your decision making is completely aligned with external morale, i.e., the mood of the group or the general accepted norms of society. You will want to make people feel good. Every single E_FJ type I've met are all about making people feel good (creating "Harmony" according to Personalityhacker).

Summary: You cannot be an ENFJ while being decisive, domineering, decisive, willful, and confrontational (which are traits of 8). It goes against your very cognitive wiring to make rational decisions that constantly piss people off. A domineering and confrontational ENFJ - are you kidding me? ENFJ:s constantly self-sacrifice to make others feel good, this is true for all FJ types (extraverted feeling dominant/auxiliary). You can't be all at once. And you are not, according to Jung. Your type is the ordering of which functions you have developed through your life and are thus more comfortable and effective in using. This comes at the expense of other functions that are opposed to your strong function(s) which remain underdeveloped. If you are dominant in Fe (E_FJ), your Te (E_TJ) will be underdeveloped.

Fourth, the four temperaments was neither designed or invented by Hippocrates (ancient greek). It was first manifested in ancient Egypt in the Bronze age. And like all ancient wisdom from Egypt and Persia, the greeks learned it and claimed ownership of it. HIS story, i.e., the winners story. Moreover, the four temperaments was developed and analyzed during the 800-900's (cf. Avicenna), the middle ages and the church, in asia, by various psychologists. The four temperaments are actively taught today in psychology but they are rebranded as colors: Red (chol.), Blue (mela.), Green (Phl.), Yellow (San.), or the Merrill-Reid social styles Analytical (mela.), Driver (chol.), Expressive (San.) and Amiable (Phl.). Thus, quite a lot of historical and psychological substance in the four temperaments...


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## Eric B

Kaioken said:


> The Four Temperaments - Phlegmatic
> 
> It clearly doesn't define INP types at all. I could be mean and generalizing but it would suit ISFJs and ISTJs more. (especially ISFJs)


As I mentioned earlier, Fighunter's conception of the Phlegmatic is actually more (or at least in part) "Supine", the fifth temperament, which he in one place dismisses as being the traditional Phlegmatic. Phlegmatic is really a more "neutral" temperament; and he emphasizes "submissiveness", but the Phlegmatic is not always really so submissive, but also can be very stubborn and hard to move. That's why it was associated with "phlegm". The common thread with Phlegmatic is *low energy*, which will sometimes make them submissive, and yet sometimes stubborn. In either case, the drive is the "path of least resistance" (as even Fighunter mentions, there), to preserve their low energy reserve.
So some INP's will fit those descriptions, but the more stereotypical ones (especially INTP) are not as "submissive".



Black Scorpion said:


> Well, there are 4 introverted functions (Ti, Ni, Fi, Si) and 2 introverted temperaments (phlegmatic and melancholic).
> Ti and Ni are very similar.. It's introverted thinking, except Ti is focused on the present while Ni is focused on the future.
> Fi and Si are similar. It's about introverted feelings, emotions and life experiences and they're focused on the past.
> Phlegmatics don't think in the past. They focus their thinking on present and/or future. Phlegmatics (Ti-dom and Ni-dom) also have the highest IQs of all 4 temperaments. I don't get how lately melancholics got the reputation of being intellectuals (highly intelligent people). 15 years ago when I first learned about the 4 temperaments from psychology books, the melancholics were considered the biggest emotional losers. Being driven mostly by your negative emotions & feelings and allowing yourself to be traumatized or influenced by your bad life experiences is not a sign of intelligence, nor logic. Melancholics are not even capable of holding a rational conversation without getting offended due to their intense (negative) emotions (Fi) and/or due to their hyper sensitivity (Si).


Which psychology books were these? (Most mainstream "psychology" doesn't even recognize the ancient temperaments, but instead, if anything, would follow the modern Birch & Chess standalone factors version). Any book calling a temperament something like "emotional losers" doesn't seem like something to be taken seriously (unless that was simply your paraphrase). I don't think the temperaments are really to be correlated with IQ either. Most of what you're saying there is broad generalization (e.g. "not even capable", etc).
Melancholies are both intellectual, and have a strong emotional component. As I explained before, this can be explained through tertiary Fi. So they are logically focused, but if unhealthy, the less mature Feeling (coupled with Si memory of negative experiences) can drag them down. That's not a lack of "logic", it's the unpreferred Feeling tripping it up.



TB_Wisdom said:


> I'll try to respond as well and as summarized as I can.
> 
> First, check out the following study for MBTI/Enneagram correlation. Look up ENFJ and Type 8. It's not a perfect study, the subjects can have been mistyped, but it should give an indication of what's a likely relation between the MBTI and the Enneagram. Out of 118 ENFJs (self-typed), only 1 (=0,8%) identified as an Enneagram Type 8 whilst 41,5% identified as Enneagram Type 2. Those statistics should indicate something ...
> https://www.typologycentral.com/wiki/index.php/Enneagram_and_MBTI_Correlation
> 
> Second, typology is not as complex or mystical as people make it. Why it's mystical is because people simply don't have enough knowledge of themselves (how they appear to other people, i.e. how they appear in the external world) to accurately answer e.g. an MBTI test to get the proper result. We have all been there, I was there myself and I was mistyped. I thought internally (in the introverted world) that I was something that I wasn't. Thus got mistyped as a Choleric/ENTJ, but I'm in reality a Melancholic/INTJ. Other people have always seen me as shy, sensitive and inward. Therefore, I am lieing to myself if I claim to be an extraverted type (and I was back then, but I am not anymore...). This is not my own words, its confirmed by many typologist, e.g. the RHETI book on the Enneagram claims to be the most accurate Enneagram test and they state the #1 mistyping reason as lack of enough self knowledge to answer the test according to how you really are.
> 
> A side-note: Sometimes, the overly mystification of typology gets under my nerves. Particularly certain INFJs who claim to be "mystically" more or less good at everything, i.e., God-like. When a certain person sees herself as "perfect" or "good at everything", you know the person suffers from a lack of self-knowledge and lives in denial, i.e., does not want to accept the Shadow personality (as Jung put it).
> 
> Third, certain functions simply manifest in certain typical traits and behaviors. We can't observe a cognitive function (e.g. Fe, Te, Ni, ...), we can only observe behaviors that are typically associated with a certain mental process i.e. cognitive function. All Enneagram types manifest typical behaviors. Type 8 is an anger-based type who manifests anger outward to the world and takes the form of being domineering, decisive, assertive, etc. These traits are a text book example of a Choleric temperament. These traits are also clear evidence of a dominant extraverted thinking function (Te, or E_TJ). Obviously, if you are dominant in extraverted feeling (ESFJ,ENFJ) - your decision making is completely aligned with external morale, i.e., the mood of the group or the general accepted norms of society. You will want to make people feel good. Every single E_FJ type I've met are all about making people feel good (creating "Harmony" according to Personalityhacker).
> 
> Summary: You cannot be an ENFJ while being decisive, domineering, decisive, willful, and confrontational (which are traits of 8). It goes against your very cognitive wiring to make rational decisions that constantly piss people off. A domineering and confrontational ENFJ - are you kidding me? ENFJ:s constantly self-sacrifice to make others feel good, this is true for all FJ types (extraverted feeling dominant/auxiliary). You can't be all at once. And you are not, according to Jung. Your type is the ordering of which functions you have developed through your life and are thus more comfortable and effective in using. This comes at the expense of other functions that are opposed to your strong function(s) which remain underdeveloped. If you are dominant in Fe (E_FJ), your Te (E_TJ) will be underdeveloped.
> 
> Fourth, the four temperaments was neither designed or invented by Hippocrates (ancient greek). It was first manifested in ancient Egypt in the Bronze age. And like all ancient wisdom from Egypt and Persia, the greeks learned it and claimed ownership of it. HIS story, i.e., the winners story. Moreover, the four temperaments was developed and analyzed during the 800-900's (cf. Avicenna), the middle ages and the church, in asia, by various psychologists. The four temperaments are actively taught today in psychology but they are rebranded as colors: Red (chol.), Blue (mela.), Green (Phl.), Yellow (San.), or the Merrill-Reid social styles Analytical (mela.), Driver (chol.), Expressive (San.) and Amiable (Phl.). Thus, quite a lot of historical and psychological substance in the four temperaments...


The types are blends of temperaments, along the lines of Keirsey's temperaments, and the Interaction Styles. (Basically, Keirsey is ultimately derived from Plato, while Interaction Styles would be closer to classic Hippocrates and the others, up to Social Styles, etc). The ENJ (interaction Style) part of it is extraverted and directive (which defined the ancient Choleric; i.e. "hot and dry", and is what makes it look so stereotypically "anger-based", fitting the E8) and even called "_In Charge_". This is blended with the NF, which is the opposite (cooperative and motive[people]-focused), which would be Phlegmatic (or even Supine), and Keirsey did claim NF was "Choleric", due to its "emotiveness" (which would then make the ENFJ "Choleric" on both levels, or the "pure Choleric"), but I believe he was mistaken on that. 

So the ENFJ would be a Choleric-Phlegmatic or Choleric-Supine, which is a blend of two diametrically opposite temperaments (expressive and directive with reserved and responsive), and so what happens is that the different temperaments _*moderate*_ the traits of each other. So that the ENFJ will not be as purely Choleric as the ENTJ, or even similar types like the ESTJ or ESTP. That's how the type could be Choleric and have some of those un-Choleric traits you mentioned. Those are really coming from the [N]F part of it, which is not the Choleric, but really the opposite. 
However, on the surface, the type will still tend to be quicker to approach others for interaction, and yet have a higher criteria for accepting unsolicited interaction from others. (think "Don't call me; I'll call you"). This is what's at the root of the Choleric temperament. Oprah is the textbook ENFJ example, and while she may look all Sanguiney on TV, people who deal with her in person describe her behavior as what fits a Choleric. (The other Fe dom. ESFJ, by comparison, is Sanguine-Melancholy; which is also a blend of opposites).


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## TB_Wisdom

This feels like a typical INTJ-INTP disagreement as you're approaching the issue from a strong internally logic perspective (Ti) while I'm looking at empirical evidence, such stand point is simply not supported, all evidence speaks for ENFJs (and all E_F_ types) being Sanguine predominantly.

The traits I use to describe the temperaments are based on literature from A. Carberry, A. Whyte, R. Steiner, G. Childs, T. Erikson as well as various online articles, presentations, lectures and VLOGs on the topic.



Eric B said:


> The types are blends of temperaments, along the lines of Keirsey's temperaments, and the Interaction Styles. (Basically, Keirsey is ultimately derived from Plato, while Interaction Styles would be closer to classic Hippocrates and the others, up to Social Styles, etc).


Agree.


Eric B said:


> The ENJ (interaction Style) part of it is extraverted and directive (which defined the ancient Choleric; i.e. "hot and dry", and is what makes it look so stereotypically "anger-based", fitting the E8)


Lots of errors here in my opinion. You group ENTJ and ENFJ as the ENJ:s, but they only share the middle functional axis of Ni-Se but are completely opposing in their dominant-inferior axis of Te-Fi (ENTJ) vs Fe-Ti (ENFJ). Results in two different type. ENTJ is quite common empirically among Enneagram-8's but not the ENFJ, the ENFJ is most common among Enneagram-2's. There is empirical evidence to prove this point, cf link I posted.


Eric B said:


> and even called "_In Charge_". This is blended with the NF, which is the opposite (cooperative and motive[people]-focused), which would be Phlegmatic (or even Supine), and Keirsey did claim NF was "Choleric", due to its "emotiveness" (which would then make the ENFJ "Choleric" on both levels, or the "pure Choleric"), but I believe he was mistaken on that.


Well, Keirsey is completely wrong from an empirical point of view. An INFP choleric? The INFP is arguably the most phlegmatic type that exists. My mother is INFP and my best friend is INFP, both of them know typology and they both identify as strong Enneagram 9's and Phlegmatics. You call the ENFP Choleric? Another complete error. Or the INFJ? Choleric people drive INFJ:s crazy, I've seen this time after time. I even know one INFJ person who quit our company because the 1-2 Cholerics constantly kept on running her over and the values that she held dear. ENFJ:s (such as Oprah) are predominantly Sanguine but I agree that there is a certain tone of assertiveness to ENFJ:s which makes many of them Sanguine/Choleric blends.

Again, the empirical evidence simply doesn't support the fact.


Eric B said:


> So the ENFJ would be a Choleric-Phlegmatic or Choleric-Supine, which is a blend of two diametrically opposite temperaments (expressive and directive with reserved and responsive),


Again, no empirical evidence to support that a Fe-dominant type is Choleric. Note that almost all literature that explains Cholerics explains them as emotionally cold and hard-headed, a type that has difficulties expressing emotions...



Eric B said:


> and so what happens is that the different temperaments _*moderate*_ the traits of each other. So that the ENFJ will not be as purely Choleric as the ENTJ, or even similar types like the ESTJ or ESTP. That's how the type could be Choleric and have some of those un-Choleric traits you mentioned. Those are really coming from the [N]F part of it, which is not the Choleric, but really the opposite.


Yes, the functions moderate the types such as the Choleric types of ENTP and ESTP who display only mild forms of typical Choleric traits. Again, Choleric is not a type that makes decisions based on feeling. They would appear much more warm and mild to the outside world (such as Sanguines and Phlegmatics do) if they used feeling. Yet the world thinks of Cholerics as Fire...


Eric B said:


> However, on the surface, the type will still tend to be quicker to approach others for interaction, and yet have a higher criteria for accepting unsolicited interaction from others. (think "Don't call me; I'll call you"). This is what's at the root of the Choleric temperament. Oprah is the textbook ENFJ example, and while she may look all Sanguiney on TV, people who deal with her in person describe her behavior as what fits a Choleric. (The other Fe dom. ESFJ, by comparison, is Sanguine-Melancholy; which is also a blend of opposites).


Again, you're too focused on proving your internal logic such that you disregard empirical evidence. Sanguines are the popular ones. Sanguines are those people who usually have a lot of friends and a lot of admirers. Those who have maximum social intelligence. Those who receive the most likes on social media. Those who can talk to everyone. Those people who smile, who use warm and inviting body language (such as hugging and touching - not in a sexual sense). All of these traits fit Oprah and she is probably one of the most popular talk show hosts ever.


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## Eric B

OK, you address, but are not really taking into consideration, the main point of the effect of the *blend*ing of the temperaments. And you're dealing with opposite temperaments, and so the mixing of traits will be more dramatic. That's one reason both NFJ's and NTP's are so notably “enigmatic”. (Are you one of those who hold diametric opposites can't be blended? Someone, IIRC mentioned that version of temperament somewhere recently).
Also, the blends aren't random, but rather according to the two different areas, social and leadership. NF is the “leadership” area, which is the Phlegmatic. In the ENFJ, it is combined with the Choleric in the social area. 


What you're giving there are really more broad Sanguine _stereotypes_; not empirical evidence. (And even those "sources" you cite may not be considering blends, or reject blends of opposites). What you're describing are really more general “extroversion” traits. So *Cholerics can be that way too*. ("popular...usually have a lot of friends and a lot of admirers...maximum social intelligence...receive the most likes on social media... can talk to everyone...people who smile, who use warm and inviting body language...". Are you kidding in denying Cholerics are at least several of these?) 
The difference is the “people” vs “task” focus. Sanguines are genuinely focused on the _people_ themselves, where Cholerics approach people for more of a “goal” in mind. Cholerics are thus described in the APS as being able to “undertake _any behavior necessary_”, to achieve those goals. So often, they will find it beneficial to be open and friendly like a Sanguine. 

The ENFJ is the unique case (the only Choleric Feeler, which grants you the normal virtual incompatibility of Choleric with F traits), where the social Choleric is driven by Feeling, which will in effect* CANCEL OUT the "emotionally cold and hard-headed, difficulty expressing emotions..." tendencies*. 
Those complete (and generalistic) behavioral descriptions are not really the root definition of the Choleric. The Choleric is defined as "expressive and directive". That will usually be connected with emotional coldness, etc. but this can be altered by blending with another temperament. _This_ is what will make them "appear much more warm and mild to the outside world". But what will remain will be the expressiveness (E) and "directiveness" (common to all ST's and NJ's), in the social area. They will still have that "fire" to them, though in diminished form as even you admitted in acknowledging their "assetiveness".

(And this, again, is what I hear Oprah is really like offstage. Even seeing her onstage; I could imagine it. Sanguines have more of a "light and airiness" to them (it was the "air" temperament, recall), in addition to being simply "friendly". 
I don't know many other ENFJ's. One in MBTI certification class did seem like a Choleric, even had that "Choleric" look on her face you would expect from an ETJ. There was also a great aunt who might have been one, and she seemed sweet and all, but really had another side to her, my grandmother [her sister] always warned of, and became quite evident the way she took over and changed around my grandmother's funeral arrangements when she died first. It was actually a very Fe kind of move, but still very "Choleric" the way it was carried out. The true "Sanguine" Fe ESFJ type like my wife would be much less likely to do something like that, because the "practical" S coupled with the F is more people-focused on the social level, and not driven by the task-focused, subjective "visions" of Ni, which again is what drives the "directive" aspects). 


I did not make this part of it up; Interaction Styles are originally from Linda Berens, and Keirsey himself is the one who first identified "informative/directive", and later factored them with I/E creating the same groups, (calling them simply "roles of interaction"). ENFJ's Interaction Style is called "In Charge". That's clearly the Choleric, where "Get Things Going" (EFS/ENP) is the Sanguine. (Where I differ with them is the NF/NT mixup. BTW; I did not say ENFP is Choleric; that again would be Keirsey. [perhaps by "you", you were referring hypothetically to Keirsey?] I bet if you compare an ENFP with an ENFJ, where the "P" crosses it over to "Get things Going"; you will see the contrast, where ENFJ may look "Sanguine" by itself, but the ENFP will be much more Sanguine in comparison). 

Also, while E8 is definitely Choleric, 2 doesn't seem to fit well to a "pure" temperament like that, but rather be more blended, and so it would make perfect sense from a temperament angle that EFJ's would fall into that type a lot. 
ENTP is the Sanguine-Choleric (not ENFJ) and ESTP is the Choleric-Sanguine. Again, in both cases, the Sanguine does soften the Choleric down, as you refer to as "mild". The Choleric in turn also gives the Sanguine a bit more seriousness. So the ENFJ blend would be an even more radical "softening".


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