# I'll put the IxFx. Will you put the rest???



## Nephon (Aug 22, 2016)

Hi everyone!

I'd love hear what the following tell you about my type!



Wisdom is, in all likelihood, my most desirable virtue. For that reason, I've been collecting quotes since I was teenager, and I always remember the ones that make it into my notebook (back then) or .doc file. It was also back then that I realized that I identified with the archetype of the wise old man, at least 10 years before I read about Jungian Archetypes.

As a child, I remember being drawn to the metaphysical, always, for example, choosing the Wizard, whenever there was such a character in a video game, and having some metaphysical inner experiences (not something profound) when I would approach religious figures or places.

I have a big appetite for the paranormal. If there was a channel with only paranormal reality shows, I'd rarely change the channel. The paranormal, the otherwordly, the "other side", the mysterious attracts me like nothing else.

In philosophical, religious, or scientific debates, I have trouble taking sides and becoming an apologist for one of the opposing views, because I can usually see the good arguments in both sides. As Arthur C. Clarke put it _"For every expert there is an equal and opposite expert."_, and this is exactly how I feel. 

I've been told, and sometimes accused, throughout my life that I'm "sensitive", and by that they've always meant "too sensitive". The truth is that I was and still am a sensitive person. The only difference is that in the past decade I became significantly less sensitive, as chronic exposure to very difficult life circumstances makes your skin grow thicker. But in my teens, I was a "bleeding heart" at times, usually in romantic relationships.

I've "always" (since I was a teenager) been melancholic (it often developed into clinical depression), pessimistic, and slightly dark. If I weren't too faint-hearted and too religious, for the real thing, I'd be into goth. I still like watching popular/light goth videos and music. I've also always been accompanied by anxiety disorders.

I've also been accused of thinking too much, of being hyper-analytical. I don't view myself as an INTP or an INTJ, as I don't have THAT amount of mental/brain stamina for analyzing things, but the truth is that I am the kind of person that does dissect things a lot, myself being the usual victim, and that I have burdened teachers and counselors of all sorts with my questions, as I have many AND difficult ones.

I learn foreign languages easily and love words/languages in general. I care about spelling (as a child I was top of the class in spelling bees and had an extensive vobaculary), grammar, syntax, etymology, and good writing. People frequently compliment me on my writing and suggest that I should write something.

I've never been able to really care about, desire, and manage money. Until soon after university, I had a blind spot for money management. It was a good ESTJ friend who gradually taught me that things have prices, that prices differ from place to place, that you can save money by looking for "1+1" offers, and every other thing you can imagine about saving and managing money. He wasn't trying to teach me; he was just being himself. I, on the other hand, would spend money on buying textbooks and other books, and ended up owing money to the university for room and board. I'm a very impulsive spender when it comes to books and music. Whenever I go to a bookstore, I'm sweating like a horse, like an addict who can't have the exact dose s/he needs; only my "dose" is the entire Religion/Philosophy/Psychology section of the bookstore.

As I child I had very weird relationship with violence. I was very kind and good-natured, would never start a fight, but when someone would seriously hurt me emotionally and/or physically, I would beat him again and again. The most extreme example of this was when a child that was one year younger than me, in primary school, almost chocked me to death. I remember beating him for the rest of the school year, in almost every single break. As an adult, it has happend twice that someone threatened someone I loved dearly (usually my mother or some other loved one), and I exploded and turned into Hulk or something. Deep down, I'm afraid that some day, I might turn into Hulk again and seriously beat someone.

I have A LOT more mental energy than physical.

I have a chameleon personality. I can, for brief periods of time of course, have a conversation that will make any personality type think I'm similar to them, or at least agree with them in most things. I actually do that because it's easier for me to fake being someone else, than to be myself and possibly show the other person that I'm not at all interested in what they say (thus appearing rude), or have a real conversation, where it's likely that there will be disagreement, which I feel like conflict -I'm very conflict averse. I take on the personality colors of the other person, and everyone's happy.


Thanks for reading this!


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## Nephon (Aug 22, 2016)

For those who like questionnaires better:



*1) What aspect of your personality made you unsure of your type?* I've put it in the title. 

*2) What do you yearn for in life? Why?*

God, Meaning, Wisdom, Knowledge, kindness, Social Justice, serenity, and quietness.

These are all part of my psychic firmware, not rational choices I made, but if I absolutely have to provide reasons for them then:

_God_ because "He" is the Ultimate Reality, the Source of all Goodness, Holiness, Peace, Love and Joy.

_Meaning_ because life (without God) is inherently meaningless; a pointless tragedy.

_Wisdom_ because it is essential to self-development and counseling others.

_Knowledge_ because it can increase wisdom. Also because I love -it's addictive- that moment when I learn something and it feels like part of my inner representation of Reality has been enlightened. Inside my head, I see darkness; something like a dark universe. Whenever I learn something fascinating, I can see in my mind's eye part of that darkness being illuminated.

_Kindness_, because I'm naturally kind, very polite, sensitive, and gentle. I feel the world is such a hostile place, full of harshness, rudeness, mercilessness, cruelty etc. As Thomas Hobbes put it _"The condition of man ... is a condition of war of everyone against everyone."_.

_Social Justice_ because, my heart breaks at the fact that there are people who are hungry, homeless, without medical care, and access to basic education. These are the most fundamental and inalienable human rights, but thanks to Corporatocracy, there's never enough money available for these people. I'm also "not a big fan" of discrimination against women.

_Serenity_ because the inner world of a neurotic person, such as myself, is turbulent.

_Quietness_ because unless it's my favorite music, I don't like ANY kind of loud noise, especially bad music (of course that's subjective) and chatter/laughter.


*3) Think about a time where you felt like you were at your finest. Tell us what made you feel that way.*

I'm thinking of my time at university. I was a. living alone, and was thus 100% free to pursue my preferred lifestyle (for example, I didn't have my parents purposely throwing my recycling bags in the ordinary garbage), and b. doing one of the things I love the most, learning, and thus coming closer to finding answers to life's big questions (not a trivial knowledge fan here). I really miss that constant contact with knowledge and ideas. I also miss that false sense of living in the world (with all its ugliness and viciousness), and yet, at the same, being away from it, in a semi-secluded environment of exciting ideas and minds. Plus, I didn't have to adult back then.


*4) What makes you feel inferior?*

All the ways in which I'm different from the average, well-functioning in the real world person.

These include my severe procrastination problem, lack of assertiveness, well below average love for money, moderate ambitiousness, and general passivity and indifference towards life and the real world. They also include my chronic problems with various forms of anxiety and depression, as well as elements of other mental health problems. I don't feel comfortable to list here the remaining ways in which I'm different from the average, well-functioning person, but you get the idea.

I also feel inferior when I'm not performing in at least the top 5-10%, especially when it comes to tasks that involve cognitive performance. I need to be in the elite to simply feel "ok", and not worthless, average.


*5) What tends to weigh on your decisions? (Do you think about people, pro-cons, how you feel about it, etc.)*

It really depends on the decision.

In general, however, my decisions are usually compromises between what my inner self needs/desires and what my loved ones need/desire. I go to great lengths to avoid hurting them with my decisions, sometimes to the point of sacrificing myself and going with Plan B or even Plan C.

Once the decision has been made, I begin researching the details of the implementation and weighing up the pros and cons.


*6) When working on a project what is normally your emphasis? Do you like to have control of the outcome?*

My emphasis is always on the quality of outcome. I am an obsessive perfectionist, and by that I mean one who does not strive for perfection by choice, but by psychological need; I simply cannot stand to turn in anything that's less than perfect. It should come, therefore, as no surprise that I need to have total control of the outcome, which is one reason I don't like group work -rarely, if ever, are members of a work group equally skilled-, the other reason being that I like to work alone.

Being an obsessive perfectionist, I will spend an inordinate amount of time making sure everything's perfect and that, together with the fact that I'm a serious procrastinator, make me the perfect deadline extension request candidate.


*7) Describe a time where you had a lot of fun. How is your memory of it?*

I don't recall the last time I had a lot of fun. In fact, I think I'm "allergic" to the very notion of "fun", as it is commonly understood. I prefer to have a meaningful time. I mostly remember one or two images and the strongest emotion from the beautiful and meaninful times I've had in my life. I'm least likely to remember the clothes people were wearing, and the exact conversations we had.


*8) When you want to learn something new, what feels more natural for you?*

I learn best by attending lectures, followed by reading. Nothing more is required.


*9) How organized do you think of yourself as?*

I have a very organized mp3/e-book/cd/book/magazine/dvd collection. I also have a very organized "My Documents" folder and email inbox. Moreover, I have folders with all my important documents, and the same documents scanned and saved in an encrypted folder in my computer. I sometimes make "to-do" lists and create reminders on my phone's or my computer's calendar app, for important appointments (or for magazines/newspapers that are published fortnightly), despite the fact that I rarely -if ever- forget the things I need to do, especially my important appointments.

On the other hand, my room has always been very messy (sometimes extremely messy), I don't make very detailed plans, and I prefer my free time to be unscheduled and do things according to my mood and energy levels.


*10) How do you judge new ideas? You try to understand the principles behind it to see if they make sense or do you look for information that supports it?*

I don't think judge new ideas, as absurd as that may seem. I just absorb them, unless they're ridiculous, based on my own, I guess arbritrary, threshold for ridiculousness. The final judge is, of course, the existence of supporting evidence, the best method for acquiring such evidence being the scientific method. But, I enjoying learning about ideas such as Dark Matter/Energy, the Multiverse, and other stuff that are still hypotheses. Even if they're disproven, they sometimes serve as useful metaphors or analogies in philosophical/religious/psychological conversations. If an idea cannot be subjected to the scientific method (e.g., Ethics or Religion), then I'll go with what makes sense to me and "feels" right. I do concede to holding contradictory beliefs, seeing, for example, the valid points of each side in the Science vs. Religion argument, and not being able, therefore, to become a militant Theist or Atheist. My inner idea landscape is messy and I am aware of my self-contradictions.


*11) You find harmony by making sure everyone is doing fine and belonging to a given group or by making sure that you follow what you believe and being yourself?*

My primary source of sense of harmony and inner peace is from my living according to my religious and other beliefs. This is followed by making sure that everyone is doing fine, in the sense that they are alright physically and psychologically, and that they don't need any help (if they do, I'll gladly offer it).

Generally speaking, I'm not interested in whether people belong to a given group -it's their choice and their "problem". And if I'm interested about whether people belong to a group I care about, I'm not the type of person who will try to convince/push them to join.


*12) Are you the kind that thinks before speaking or do you speak before thinking? Do you prefer one-on-one communication or group discussions?*

There's a strong chance that I'm an introvert, and introverts generally talk a lot less than they think, so I'd say that I think before speaking. I have noticed though that sometimes when I'm talking, I say things (e.g., insights) I've never thought before, so there's some chance that part of me is actually thinking while talking.

I definitely prefer one-on-one communication.


*13) Do you jump into action right away or do you like to know where are you jumping before leaping? Does action speaks more than words?*

I definitely need to know where I'm jumping before leaping, and that's why I do A LOT of research before I make a decision. I'm risk-averse and don't like unpleasant surprises.

Much as I hate to admit it, action does indeed speak louder than words -you can guess I'm not good at action. You can preach philanthropy for days, and achieve a fraction of the motivational and educational effect you would achieve by simply offering a cup of food with your own hands.


*14) It's Saturday. You're at home, and your favorite show is about to start. Your friends call you for a night out. What will you do?*

I would stay at home and watch the show, unless it was a REALLY special occasion / night out. 

I generally can't do things at such short notice. It's as if the information has to enter my system early, in order for my organism to do some sort of quiet, internal, unknown to me preparation for doing something.


*15) How do you act when you're stressed out?*

Binge eat and spend hours of, for the most part, mindless internet browsing, or watching TV. I might also go for a walk, during which I will not think "at all" (due to psychological exhaustion) and just notice whatever beautiful there is in the environment.

In case I'm stressed out while doing something, I may shout at anyone who interrupts my concentration.


*16) What makes you dislike the personalities of some people?*

People who are harsh, angry, aggressive, domineering, or heartless/inhumane, feel like sulfuric acid thrown at my soul. I also don't like people who are blunt, rude, emotionally cold, materialistic, stingy, demanding, or with big egos.


*17) Is there anything you really like talking about with other people?*

The Big Questions and their life (who they are, their psychological timeline, what they yearn for, etc).


*18) What kind of things do you pay the least attention to in your life?*

Fashion, perfumes, watches/jewelry, sports, cars, cafes/bars, gourmet cuisine, events, business news, and money.


*19) How do your friends perceive you? What is wrong about their perception? ? What would your friends never say about your personality ?*

My friends perceive me as a good / kind-hearted guy who is very intelligent, very knowledgeable, deep, philosophical, but also a hermit who disappears with no warning for various lengths of time, oftentimes forever.

They would never say that I am the things I'm not, which are mentioned in Q. 4 and Q. 16 .


*20) You got a whole day to do whatever you like. What kind of activities do you feel like doing?* 

In the morning, I'd wake up, pray, have breakfast, and either watch tv (cartoons or a documentary), or, depending on my finances, go down town to my favorite bookstores (and record stores, when they still existed). After that, I'd take a long, solitary walk by the sea-side, where I would listen to lots of music (mostly classical, electronic, and ethnic), and think about the past/present/future (mine and of the world). Then I'd have lunch by the sea-side, while reading my favorite newspapers. After that, I would return home, I'd sleep for a couple of hours, and then I'd read a book or magazine. Next, I'd check my emails and social networks profiles, I'd reply to any messages, perhaps I'd chat with / call a friend, and quite likely would call my parents to check how they are. In the night, I'd watch the latest episodes of some of my favorite paranormal reality television series, read something spiritual and pray for an hour or so.


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## Chompy (May 2, 2015)

Infj


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## Nephon (Aug 22, 2016)

Hi, @Jinxy and thanks for your reply!

Can an INFJ be a procrastinator? Also, their dominant function is portrayed as being so mysterious, "magical" (premonitions, etc) and psychic, but I'm not any of these things.


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## Chompy (May 2, 2015)

No problem! To answer your question, INFJ's can definitely procrastinate. I can vouch for that being one myself, haha. That being said, it isn't as common for an INFJ to procrastinate as it is for some of the other types. Ni is also about what is to come. It's going to be a bit tricky for me to explain procrastination in INFJ's because I can only really speak for myself, but I'll give it a shot.

Say for example I have a big confrontation coming up. Ni can manifest in the form of predictions or 'fortune telling', that makes up a lot of our hunches and intuitions. If I can see myself doing poorly in this confrontation for whatever reason, I might start letting my inferior Se influence my decisions to mask the problem, meaning distractions and overall procrastination.

So to answer your next questions. As much as I wish they were, INFJ's aren't magic and Ni isn't always mystical. Ni can often act as a linear line towards the future which you can jump around on and visualise life at various stages, including heaven for example, or what comes after this life. It's also proactive, and sees possible conclusions to a current situation. This is what I rely on mainly to stay comfortable in social situations or when making life choices. From your answers, despite procrastination, you seem to live a regulated and balanced life that corresponds to to the workings of Ni-Ti.

Feel free to ask more questions if I missed something. 

(Oh, and my room is also a mess so don't worry about that haha)


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## Nephon (Aug 22, 2016)

Thank you so much for your explanations!

I understand what you're saying, and, in the personal example you shared, it makes sense even for an INFJ to procrastinate. But what about missing deadlines for submitting essays in college, or writing a somewhat difficult e-mail? Of course, I can see the common culprit behind these two real life examples being my perfectionism, which makes them seem, on some deeper level VERY difficult, given my very high inner standards, thus causing anxiety and paralyzing me, which in turn causes avoidance by distraction. On the other hand, this translates in starting working at the last minute, which is, I believe, very "P" behavior. The Js are described as working more or less since "Day 1" and with a reasonably stable progress rate, sometimes even dividing a big task into smaller ones and setting their own mini deadlines (I admit this one sounds more TJ).

I suspect that you somewhat clearly saw the INFJ functions in my posts, being one yourself (this matters to me a lot), but given what I wrote in the previous paragraph, could I be an ISFP, since they do share half the functions, even in different order? That would explain half of what you saw plus my serious procrastination problem. INFJs ARE my favorite type, having all the functions in the right order, given my stereotypically NF interests, but I want to know my real type so that I can work on self-development, and not just be happy that I am my favorite type. 



PS. One more thing too, something I'm 100% sure I do, so it's very safe to be used for typing: 

We're discussing a difficult situation with someone, and I tell him/her "Yes, but if you do/say this, then he will do/say that and he will cause you that problem (negative outcome)". I'm usually right, and I can't refrain from saying "I told you so". Feel free to call me a bad person.  This does sound like Ni (I just call it "thinking like a chess player"), but because I usually use it for counseling/protecting others against negative outcomes, I'm hesitant to identify it as Ni, because I read that inferior Ne is like that, thinking of all the negative possibilities. What do you say?


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## Nephilibata (Jan 21, 2015)

I'm also INFJ and I can vouch for that procrastination is a big problem for me. Likewise, my INTJ mother does it too. With both of us it seems to be common thing to lean towards this tendency more when we're not in a structured environment, e.g. when my mother was jobless for a while she procrastinated finding a job for an absurdly long time, simply because she didn't want to do it (major reason for me too). She didn't really get on with anything but her interests during that time either. Similarly, I find that I was a lot more on top of things academically when I was still in school versus university - school is a heck of a lot more structured than uni is and it turns out it's a lot more difficult for me to start on assessments now than it used to be. I'll add though that every type procrastinates, just for different reasons and in different circumstances and things. It also likely has to do with the environment you grew up in and what habits you've built.

As for Ne or Ni, this is a trick I used for myself and maybe it'll help you? Thinking of a scenario or future outcomes, is your thinking linear/catastrophising (you have 1, 2 or maybe even 3 paths but ultimately can manage to trace only one down the line towards the end)? Or is it multiplying (you think of many, many different outcomes and each seems as likely as the other/you can think of all of them in parallel)? You've probably seen this before, but Ni takes from many different sources and binds them all together (converging) while Ne can take one source and split it off into many different paths (diverging).

The way you experience anxiety may be very telling when trying this. And, this may just be me, but as Ni-user, I'm terrible at brainstorming or coming up with many different ideas, e.g. in my school art class we had a design unit. Part of it was to come up with an average of 5-6 ideas. I barely managed 3, and 2 of those were squeezed out of my brain with a lot of pressure. Even then I was mentally already on step 5 of my 'chosen' design; I couldn't get out of that 'lane'. I suspect it's also why I've never found any use to draw drafts before getting on with the real thing, because I either start something and finish the same piece or decide to toss it and start something else.

Sorry, I haven't read through your whole description (yet) but I hope you find this at least a little bit helpful! Good luck 

Edit: perfectionism can most certainly lead to procrastination. That's definitely a big part of why I procrastinate, in addition to just pushing things in front of me I simply dislike doing. Plus there's that good, ole' mind trap of thinking there's a lot more time to do things than there is - and then the deadline is coming up and I freeze. Writing out lists is helpful for me in that case.


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## Surreal Snake (Nov 17, 2009)

Isfj


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## Nephon (Aug 22, 2016)

Thanks for your input @RainIsMyColour! 



RainIsMyColour said:


> With both of us it seems to be common thing to lean towards this tendency more when we're not in a structured environment


I, likewise, do so much better in structured environments. Externally imposed structure helps very much.



RainIsMyColour said:


> As for Ne or Ni, this is a trick I used for myself and maybe it'll help you? Thinking of a scenario or future outcomes, is your thinking linear/catastrophising (you have 1, 2 or maybe even 3 paths but ultimately can manage to trace only one down the line towards the end)? Or is it multiplying (you think of many, many different outcomes and each seems as likely as the other/you can think of all of them in parallel)? You've probably seen this before, but Ni takes from many different sources and binds them all together (converging) while Ne can take one source and split it off into many different paths (diverging).


Does the following that I shared while you were probably writing your reply, help answer your question? Here it is:



Nephon said:


> We're discussing a difficult situation with someone, and I tell him/her "Yes, but if you do/say this, then he will do/say that and he will cause you that problem (negative outcome)". I'm usually right, and I can't refrain from saying "I told you so". Feel free to call me a bad person.  This does sound like Ni (I just call it "thinking like a chess player"), but because I usually use it for counseling/protecting others against negative outcomes, I'm hesitant to identify it as Ni, because I read that inferior Ne is like that, thinking of all the negative possibilities.


As I child, I knew I wanted to become a doctor. There was no "or". Likewise in my teens, I felt called to become something else, was blocked by my parents, so I chose to study something else, again in the caring professions, and I would think about the next steps until the moment I became a licensed practitioner. So, I usually choose one thing, and I might come up with an alternative, "just in case". 

I've always thought that brainstorming sessions are...weird. If I want ideas, I'll look inside myself, thinking mostly without an internal dialogue, and come up with 2 maybe 3 that make some sense. Like yourself, I'm drained if I have to come up with ideas, though I can, which is why I can't imagine myself working in the creative deparment of an ad producing company.

I hope these help a little. 

Thanks for your help, and, by the way, you've got a cool nickname.


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## Nephon (Aug 22, 2016)

Surreal Snake said:


> Isfj


Thank you very much for the typing, @Surreal Snake!

I believed that ISFJ was the least probable outcome of the four possibilities, but your incredible stats here, and how they translate in knowledge of typology, leave me no choice but to take your typing _very_ seriously.


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## Nephilibata (Jan 21, 2015)

the excerpt you put as example of counseling could possibly be Ni but Si is able to do the same thing, from what I heard. 'The better you know a person, the more accurate your predictions are' seems to be the case for Si-Ne users, because subconsciously a pattern has been observed via Ne and stronger Si is able to 'grab' one possibility - the most likely one, based on past experiences and the assumption these will repeat. This is how Si-Ne/Ne-Si can appear Ni-like. Do you find you're able to do what you described in unfamiliar situations/people you don't know too well?

I'm hesitant to comment on how you chose your profession (or really, say anything in general regarding your type because I'm still learning and don't want to mislead). I can only offer again my experience which may not apply to anyone else: I never have a back up plan. I usually focus and aim for one particular goal and then keep at it until I get there. There is no failing or giving up, just a long road to travel. I fixated on wanting to become an archaelogist by the age of 10. I had a whole life plan, I knew which uni I wanted to go to, what subjects to pick. I changed my mind once I was able to pick a subject in that direction at school and became disillusioned with what it was (sometimes I wonder if I should've stayed with it). I drifted aimlessly for a while and that was the time I was very susceptible to being swayed what career I should pursue. Eventually I found out about the whole field of animation and instantly knew 'this is it'. I strayed a bit off path during a difficult time in my life but am now back on track. It's been 4 years since I started looking into animation and I only recently found, applied and got into a non-private uni that offers a bachelor degree in animation. I'm not in that course yet; I view my current degree as 'stepping stone' to getting where I want to be, despite everyone around me telling me I should just stick with it and make that my career. But no, I know what I want now and I'm not letting my 'vision' of my future be rattled, even if it takes me a less than straightfoward, long way to get there. The fact that you stayed within the medical field but easily(?) changed your mind to look at other career options within it, may point to Ne, but take that with a grain of salt. At the risk of sounding dramatic, often my mind will be a bit 'all or nothing'. Once I ticked 'archaeologist' off my list, I never even considered another path in that field. I looked somewhere completely different. Maybe that's Ni, maybe it's not, maybe it's my occasional dramatic tendencies lol

Brainstorming can be a bit confusing. Though I find, the draining part is working on several ideas at once. I find this to be true when I plot for my writing; I get an idea but then can only expand it in one direction, one event leading to the next until the whole thing is planned out. But that's only one 'layer' of the plotline and then I can come up with another idea and repeat the same process. But working on both ideas at once and making them plothole free? Can't do it

ah, thank you :'D I hope what I wrote isn't too confusing ^^'


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## Nephon (Aug 22, 2016)

To be honest, I find it difficult to see myself as an ISFJ. I have trouble identifying with the SJ temperament (whereas I easily identify with the NF temperament), with the type descriptions, as well with Si as a dominant function. I cannot simply ignore the stereotypical descriptions of all these things. Last but not least, I'm very different from the ISFJs -yes, the ones who matched the stereotypical descriptions- I've met in my life; I'm not SO past-oriented, I'm more theoretical, more abstract, not hard-working, not so dependable, not so dutiful, not so practical, not so detail-oriented, and the list of differences goes on. If that means anything, I believe ISFJs make up the majority of the "angels" of this world, and I really love them, but...

Having said that, I cannot exclude the possibility of being ISFJ, but I would prefer if we gave equal attention to the other 3 possibilities.



Edit: I'm confident that I've written the most important things about me, in my list of personality characteristics and my replies to the questionnaire. Those of you who don't feel confident enough to post a reply based on these, what would help you, what would you suggest? Tests? Another questionnaire? Which tests or/and which questionnaire? Please let me know. Thanks!


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## ferroequinologist (Jul 27, 2012)

I'm saying ISFJ too. I don't know many male ISFJs, but they, to a man, feel a bit out of the box. And they also desire to embody wisdom. I think it's their Si w/ inferior Ne. And the two I know the best are bad with money and have to work hard to rein themselves in. Oh, and they feel very disorganized and not on top of things, but they are some of the most organized and regular people (regarding habits) . I think they'd die if their routines were messed with. But that's just me.


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## throughtheroses (May 25, 2016)

@Nephon

I have no idea where the ISFJ theory is coming from here. I actually think you're a clear INFx, leaning towards INFP. I see a predominance of Fi in your responses.


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## Nephon (Aug 22, 2016)

ferroequinologist said:


> I'm saying ISFJ too. I don't know many male ISFJs, but they, to a man, feel a bit out of the box. And they also desire to embody wisdom. I think it's their Si w/ inferior Ne. And the two I know the best are bad with money and have to work hard to rein themselves in. Oh, and they feel very disorganized and not on top of things, but they are some of the most organized and regular people (regarding habits) . I think they'd die if their routines were messed with. But that's just me.


 @ferroequinologist, your input is highly appreciated and educative about ISFJs!

I'm not dogmatic about my not being ISFJ; I just thought it was necessary to let everyone participating in this thread know what I think about this possibility. Consequently, those who believe I am ISFJ, especially experienced members like yourself, are more than welcome to suggest that I am one.


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## ferroequinologist (Jul 27, 2012)

throughtheroses said:


> @*Nephon*
> 
> I have no idea where the ISFJ theory is coming from here. I actually think you're a clear INFx, leaning towards INFP. I see a predominance of Fi in your responses.



The male ISFJs I know sort of have a certain identity crisis thing going on that they are totally unaware of. I think it's because they instinctively know that their temperament is more associated with females, and that causes a bit of a cognitive disconnect for them. Like I said, one universal ISFJ trait I've noticed is this desire they have for wisdom. It's important to them.

None of them particularly see themselves as past-oriented. In fact, they are very present-oriented, but what they cannot see is that their lens is themselves. They view the world around them through a lens that they don't perceive. It's like me wearing contact lenses. When they are on, I forget I'm wearing corrective lenses. They think they are observing the world as it is, but they are actually looking at the world through their lens. In particular, I can see that lens in his answers to 7 and 13. Also in his simile in 16. That's not an intuitive thing, but a sensor thing. Sensing types prefer simile, and intuitives metaphor. So, add that with my first paragraph, and I lean ISFJ for him. 

All that said, INFP or ISFP, even, are not out of the equation, but I just don't see INFJ at all. My oldest daughter is an INFJ, and I can't see her saying anything anything like this--I know, it's not the best argument, but I don't have the stamina to go deeper at the moment (INFJs require that for me). 

The thing is, for me, I am quite close to two ISFJ guys, and they have a very similar tone or vibe about them, that strikes me in a very particular way. I struggle to put it into words, but I would say it this way if I had to. One thing I've learned from being around them a lot, and being--to them--a very willing and sympathetic listener, is that they have a world of theory and ideas in their heads that they never share with _anyone_. This is, I suspect, because they don't feel competent to talk theory, but they have a fascination with it. I call it their inferior Ne or shadow ENTP. It holds an almost magical hold over their lives--but they don't talk about it--except they do with me, because, as I see it, they feel comfortable sharing with me, because I don't belittle them, and, in fact, encourage it. They can have some truly original and even "out there" ideas that actually make sense. My mom can be like this, and these are my favorite times with her as well. When they can do this with me, I can see it's like a load off their mind. There is a bit of this in his posts. 

Actually, I have a question for @Nephon. I suspect that INFPs would be similar to me in this regard, but do you find, over time, that habits or routine become burdensome to you, like a millstone about your neck? Or are these things comfortable to you? I think that would help settle the Si-Ne issue.  (i.e. you may be INFP)


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## Nephon (Aug 22, 2016)

throughtheroses said:


> @Nephon
> 
> I have no idea where the ISFJ theory is coming from here. I actually think you're a clear INFx, leaning towards INFP. I see a predominance of Fi in your responses.


 @throughtheroses, thanks for coming here and sharing your opinion! 

Your certainty about my being INFx definitely helps. As I said, I identify a lot more with the NF temperament compared to the SJ, so I'm inclined to think that it's more likely I'm an INFx. Unless, of course, I'm an ISFP, because they're supposed to be the most NF-like of the Sensors, and the first person who replied did see Ni-Se (INFJ), so it's not unthinkable that I could be one. Moreover, two people here suggested that I'm a Sensor and you saw Fi, so if you take all these together... I don't know, that's why I'm here.


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## ferroequinologist (Jul 27, 2012)

@Nephon

I have a couple more questions, maybe.

First, the abstract things you like. Do you enjoy talking about them to different people? Or are they more things you hold to yourself? Or are there only a few people you are willing to talk with about them? 

Do you feel comfortable talking about your own feelings? 

These lists you make for todos, etc. Do you tend to do them more when you are under stress, sort of a last-ditch effort? Or are they a part of some routine? 

One suggestion for reading... In the subforums for each type (INFP, ISFP, etc.) you should be able to find the articles section. Most articles sections have an article discussing the inferior function. Maybe reading those for the four IXFX types would help narrow down whether SJ, NJ, NP or FP for you...


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## Nephon (Aug 22, 2016)

@ferroequinologist, your questions are welcome!

I'll be away for an hour or so; in the meantime, let me know if you have any other questions.


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## ferroequinologist (Jul 27, 2012)

Nephon said:


> @*ferroequinologist*, your questions are welcome!
> 
> I'll be away for an hour or so; in the meantime, let me know if you have any other questions.


Well, I'm off to bed for the night, myself.


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## ferroequinologist (Jul 27, 2012)

Nephon said:


> Actually, I only quoted Fried Eggz explictly taking Fi-Se off the table. I think it was only in your second post that you entertained the possibility of ISFP, along with INFP and ISFJ. Now, if you could, after all the discussion here, and being an ISFP yourself, exclude that possibility, then that would be a checkmate.


I don't know that I ever had a strong ISFP sense from you. I have pretty much considered ISFJ and INFP, due to the Si "vibe". ;-) 







> I think I've always been aware of the product of Si than Ne. For example, as a teenager I was very much into history, and did find a sense of identity, beloning, and security in the religious and national traditions of my country, and I was aware of that -it's been several years since I've outgrown these. Fast forward the future and the extremely difficult and very long period that I'm still going through (unemployment, poverty, etc, despite being having a university degree), significantly changed me and I've become waaaay more ISTJ-ish, to the extent that I can feel like a very different person and am perceived by others to be a very different person. Jung would probably be happy for my individuation, but part of me is mourning for the diminishing of my more sentimental, "poetic", romantic, idealistic, and overall "NF" self. On the hand, I'd be a liar if I said that another part of me doesn't like my new self better, because I've become a more functional (see my 2nd post about the ways I feel inferior) person in the real world, and not a "lazy philosopher" as my therapist had once told me, more than a decade ago. I'm now more down to earth, way more realistic, extremely better at managing money, better at logical analysis (in fact, I correct other people's faulty reasoning), more sceptical, and slightly _closer_ to the goal of not satisfying my needs in the real world and not fantasy, as my therapist said. I wasn't writing fantasy fiction in my head, I wasn't living in an imaginary world, and yet this is how my most likely INFP and very experienced therapist told me.


This part saddens me... It's like having to learn how to write with your "off hand" because your other hand was massively injured or something. If you are well and truly an INFP... then you will only be truly happy allowing your strengths to prosper. As to how to do that, I don't know. I understand your situation isn't the best, but it seems that, well... when I'm depressed and frustrated, and stuck in my head, the best thing I can do is get involved in "Se" type activities. It's the thing that gets me out of a slump. It's the thing that gets my head back level and thinking forward again. 

What you are describing sounds like a shadow or inferior grip episode (read about those in the Articles section in either the ISFP or INFP subforums.). I guess it saddens me, because I lived for years, mostly working like that--acting NTJish, and mostly being miserable. I haven't changed my work nor the overall focus of my work, but I have changed my approach and my attitude--allowing my feeling judgments to well and truly lead, and to not apologize for them. Weirdly, I find that I'm more assertive in cases I _need_ to be, and more patient when I don't. I used to get it backwards--be assertive when I shouldn't, and unassertive when I should have been. No, it's not a perfect life, and I do still have bouts of fighting with my inner demons, and notice I also suffer more from those "loops" that you will read about on this forum, where I over-introvert into my feelings and intuition, which can be a mess, but I also am able to recognize them faster, and deal with them. I would never want to go back to who I was 5 years ago and for about 15 years before that...



> Another factor that could explain what tests show is that I'm an sp/sx -reasonably sure about that- in the Enneagram and that I'm not a native speaker of English. For example, sentences such as "a bundle of possibilities to be explored and unraveled" don't make much sense in my native language. I've also noticed that in my native language, there is significantly higher cognitive and behavioral threshold for using certain adjectives for people. One such example, is the word "intuitive" which is used as an equivalent of "psychic" or "nearly-psychic". Also, "creative" is used for someone who is very creative, like people working in advertising companies, inventors, etc. The parts of the stereotypical description of Ne that I strongly relate to are these of "reading between the lines" (I can do that to the extent of paranoia; I often read TOO much into other people's words; I'm always able to read even more if a try just a little), having a knack for explaining complex ideas (I've been told several times that I have that gift that I should teach) in a way that everyone understands them, being ever-inquisitive (about many things but not becoming an expert into any of them), and seeing the potential in others (ok, that's more Fi+Ne) and being enthusiastic about people realizing it.


Those last things... those are the areas of your strengths. That is where you need to focus, I would think. I understand the language problem. I work in a second language, and find that my second language has similar specific meanings and focus that doesn't translate MBTI concepts well... On the other hand, Jung, himself, coopted or coined the words for use in his system, and while we seem to grasp the main functions ok, there are things that confuse and mislead in English (subjective vs. objective, to give an example). Have you considered teaching? not necessarily children, but other things--ha. language--English?--for instance. ;-) Or even training in the workplace. Find a niche, etc. I don't know how this turned into suggestions like this... I'm not really into offering advice... I'm just tossing out suggestions, or giving my perspective, really. Don't take anything I say as advice or "should do". It's just thoughts I have, maybe to spark your own thinking... I don't have answers, just thoughts.


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## Nephon (Aug 22, 2016)

ferroequinologist said:


> I don't know that I ever had a strong ISFP sense from you. I have pretty much considered ISFJ and INFP, due to the Si "vibe". ;-)


Hahaha.  INFP it is then, unless, of course, anyone else wants to argue for ISFJ.



ferroequinologist said:


> This part saddens me... It's like having to learn how to write with your "off hand" because your other hand was massively injured or something.


...or because you grandmother believes that good studens write with their right hand, which what happened in my case. 



ferroequinologist said:


> when I'm depressed and frustrated, and stuck in my head, the best thing I can do is get involved in "Se" type activities. It's the thing that gets me out of a slump. It's the thing that gets my head back level and thinking forward again.


I actually think most types get involved in "Se" type activities in such case.

I do too, but it's usually an unhealhy use of "Se" type activities. In the relevant question of the questionnaire, I wrote the following:

_Binge eat and spend hours of, for the most part, mindless internet browsing, or watching TV. I might also go for a walk, during which I will not think "at all" (due to psychological exhaustion) and just notice whatever beautiful there is in the environment._




ferroequinologist said:


> What you are describing sounds like a shadow or inferior grip episode (read about those in the Articles section in either the ISFP or INFP subforums.). I guess it saddens me, because I lived for years, mostly working like that--acting NTJish, and mostly being miserable. I haven't changed my work nor the overall focus of my work, but I have changed my approach and my attitude--allowing my feeling judgments to well and truly lead, and to not apologize for them. Weirdly, I find that I'm more assertive in cases I _need_ to be, and more patient when I don't. I used to get it backwards--be assertive when I shouldn't, and unassertive when I should have been. No, it's not a perfect life, and I do still have bouts of fighting with my inner demons, and notice I also suffer more from those "loops" that you will read about on this forum, where I over-introvert into my feelings and intuition, which can be a mess, but I also am able to recognize them faster, and deal with them. I would never want to go back to who I was 5 years ago and for about 15 years before that...


It quite clearly does and it most likely is. And I've read that the longer you stay in the grip the more the "in-the-grip" behaviors become part of your not-in-grip self. Like yourself, I use my inferior Te clumsily, but, on the other hand, with time you become less and less clumsy and, at some, a becomes a new tool that you can use with basic dexterity.

Speaking of inferior functions (by the I identify both with inferior Se and inferior Te descriptions...), at some point I thought that the easiest way to identify your dominant function is to ask yourself which function requires the less effort to convince others and yourself that it's your dominant. In my case, the order was, from more to less difficult, Ti > Ni > Si > Fi , given that I had not doubt whatsoever that I'm an introvert. Quite unsurprisingly, tests showed that Fi is clearly my dominant function and that it's followed by Si. 




ferroequinologist said:


> Those last things... those are the areas of your strengths. That is where you need to focus, I would think. I understand the language problem. I work in a second language, and find that my second language has similar specific meanings and focus that doesn't translate MBTI concepts well... On the other hand, Jung, himself, coopted or coined the words for use in his system, and while we seem to grasp the main functions ok, there are things that confuse and mislead in English (subjective vs. objective, to give an example). Have you considered teaching? not necessarily children, but other things--ha. language--English?--for instance. ;-) Or even training in the workplace. Find a niche, etc. I don't know how this turned into suggestions like this... I'm not really into offering advice... I'm just tossing out suggestions, or giving my perspective, really. Don't take anything I say as advice or "should do". It's just thoughts I have, maybe to spark your own thinking... I don't have answers, just thoughts.


As someone who loves offering advice, I would have no problem whatsoever if you called your suggestions "advice". I'm really grateful for your suggestions -they're wise indeed-, but even more importantly, I'm very grateful for your empathy which became particularly apparent in your last post; I really like that warm and fuzzy feeling that I'm feeling right now as a result of your empathy.


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## ferroequinologist (Jul 27, 2012)

Nephon said:


> I actually think most types get involved in "Se" type activities in such case.


Aha!!! That's the mistake everybody makes!!! Physical activity is _not_ the same thing as an Se activity!!!

Se is not merely about 5 senses or physical activity. Se is much, much more.

Se isn't merely the physical activity, it is the _approach_ or psychological attitude towards it. It is how the mind approaches it. I don't know if you've ever heard about someone being "in the zone" when playing sports... but that is an approximation of what I'm talking about. 

I return you to your regularly scheduled forum... ;-)


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