# Are rapists mentally healthy?



## Tharwen (Mar 20, 2013)

according to some studies, they are.

but who would commit such acts without being seriously messed up?

what do you think?


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## RandomNote (Apr 10, 2013)

When the sex drive over takes rationality or if they're into that kinda stuff.....lots of reasons really.


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## PowerShell (Feb 3, 2013)

Rape is more about power over a victim than anything. I would say no, they are not mentally healthy. I'd say they have a superiority complex or some other power-seeking mental issue.


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## noaydi (Feb 18, 2011)

The problem of rape is that it's in the animal reign a way of genetic mixing, where the lower cast animals have no other solution to satisfy their desire than rape when majority of female are "owned" by higher cast of the race. It's a bad things for a good : the evolution of the race is equilibred by the process of rape. I let you imagine how this translate for human race... It's a sad things to note that moraly bad stuff can actually have good repercussion to the evolution of entire species...

On the assumption that "rape is good for evolution - cuz genetic mixing is good", one can say that all is question of time and opportunitie : there is a time for being morally correct and a time, when one see the evolution of the species is too much impacted by social order and cast of human, accept we should close our moral eye to rape and let it go. 
Not sure if it's a good solution, since rape is unacceptable and disrespect the individual choice.
Another more fucked up solution can be leaving to chance/probability the genetic mixing, for example all individual can have childs (yeah, at least...), but in addition give some semen to the science wich will mix radomly it for more mixed genetics. this can be a potentially futuristic okay solution but just imagine how this can turn wrong : you will get a differenciation beetween naturally born human and not, ppl who don't know from where they come, ect......... And there is forcibly fucked up ppl wich will try to apply eugenics...

The better solution for sure is that fucked up genetic scenario would naturally not happen : human love would accomplish naturally the genetic mix, with all people being abble to love all ppl. Problem is that socionic teach us that it's not possible : we have conflictor person, and other various kind of type of relationship so at the end we fall in love with only 2 or 3 potentially okay type, ideally one (theory of duality : ESTj go with INFj, ENFp with ISTp, etc...).

There is just no moral solution, I just hope the assumption is wrong ^^


For the question (yeah I didn't responded to the topic interest) :
there is at least 3 case where rape happen : 
- frustrated individuals who never get laid (unhealty)
- power/conquest minded individual (sociopath)
- people who phantasm about rape (fucked up)


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## PowerShell (Feb 3, 2013)

no_id said:


> Another more fucked up solution can be leaving to chance/probability the genetic mixing, for example all individual can have childs (yeah, at least...)


People who rape are basically the "lower level" human species and the last thing I'd want (and probably the majority of people) is their genetics to be passed on for future generations.


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## AiyokuSama (Jul 2, 2013)

PowerShell said:


> People who rape are basically the "lower level" human species and the last thing I'd want (and probably the majority of people) is their genetics to be passed on for future generations.


Not to mention that there are already 7 billion people on the planet.


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## monemi (Jun 24, 2013)

But rapists kill victims too. If there's an evolutionary purpose, I'm missing it. Plus at one time, it wasn't so rare for products of rape to be abandoned/rejected by the mother to die. This isn't an effective means by which to reproduce.


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## Monsieur Melancholy (Nov 16, 2012)

Depends on your definition of what mentally healthy means and what mentally unhealthy means. Personally, I don't think there's a static boundary between the two. There may be many reasons why someone would be a rapist. If I were a rapist, it would probably be because my sexual frustrations would overtake my sense of right and wrong, and my sense of empathy and equal treatment for everyone.

I don't think a rapist need necessarily be mentally unhealthy. They may just be a victim of unfortunate circumstances and haven't been taught proper ethics or social etiquette. But then again, everyone has different morals, so who am I to suggest mine are correct?


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## LadyO.W.BernieBro (Sep 4, 2010)

well,then you could also say a psychopath is healthy because of their evolutionary purpose. l'm sure some people say they are.

l'd put a rapist in the category of violent criminal and l don't think are mentally sound. lf they do have an evolutionary purpose, it seems to be an archaic one.


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## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

Do you actually have a link to any of those studies that purportedly state that rapists are psychologically healthy?

Date rape where there is argument over whether it was "consensual" or not might be one thing, but typically there are a few basic, different archetypes of serial rapist and not from "sexual frustration" per se (as typically people who are aggressive enough to rape are also aggressive/assertive enough to get sex the "normal" way or just pay a prostitute to remain in a safer legal zone, while those who are not assertive enough to get sex normally are usually not assertive enough to rape... if they do, it becomes more of a personal power/ feeling impotent as a person issue, it's not simple "sexual frustration").

Four basic profiles of rapists, developed over years by police investigators (assuming they came mostly from Douglas and maybe Ressler too):
Power Reassurance
Power Assertive
Anger Retaliatory
Anger Sadist

Rapist Types and Methods of Avoidance


Each have different motivations and levels of self-confidence, and the type of rapist determines how a victim needs to respond if they hope to minimize (let alone survive) the encounter. Anyway, none of these rapist categories would be deemed "healthy," they all spring from a dysfunction in the assailant's ability to relate/communicate in a mutually respectful and trusting way.


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## StElmosDream (May 26, 2012)

Tharwen said:


> according to some studies, they are.
> 
> but who would commit such acts without being seriously messed up?
> 
> what do you think?


More confirmation on the term 'rapist' needed when the media has a way of adding grey areas i.e. how sociopath, psychopath, schizoid and crazy for example have become intermingled, especially in terms of statutory versus forced in the absence of a clear 'no'....


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## LadyO.W.BernieBro (Sep 4, 2010)

Yeah, there needs to be a distinction between rape as an isolated action with contributing legal factors and someone with an innate drive to rape that persists and is present long before they commit the act.

The first group, l wouldn't necessarily see as mentally sound either but able to be rehabilitated.


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## Mammon (Jul 12, 2012)

I bet some people do it because it's thrilling. I sometimes have lucid dreams where I rape random people instead of just having ordinary sex simply because rape is more exciting and thrilling due to the fact it's a bad taboo and really looked down upon. "Watch me do it anyway >:] Mwahahaha"


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## noaydi (Feb 18, 2011)

edit : wow I responded I long text because I didn't understand a shit about what was said...... Post deleted


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## Persian (Jul 16, 2012)

Rapists are detrimental to the progress of humanity. They have an underdeveloped brain, and a high sex drive. I suspect that being a rapist is hereditary, because hormonal imbalances are passed down from father to son. Hormonal imbalances cause a higher sex drive.

I dislike when some people have sympathy for rapists. I am a victim of rape. Rape has affected my life a lot. Every night, since over a year ago when the event happened, I sit and cry. My nightmares every night are all about him. I have attempted suicide three times because of the pain. The event even caused much physical pain in my sensitive areas. At the peak of my pain a week ago, I couldn't even walk or sit down without feeling excruciating pain.

All rapists shouldn't be given sympathy. They should be shot in the head.


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## PowerShell (Feb 3, 2013)

no_id said:


> have you invented the next ship wich will go 2 time speed light ? a electronic pen cigarette ? a piece of music that no one can forget ? have you colonised smth ? are u a special dude ? warning you are perhaps one of these lower people


What kind of incoherent babble is this? Are you the new CosmicJalepeno? I don't get how any sane person can justify rape and point to evolution. It's like justifying murder and how someone killing people is just culling the herd of people who couldn't adequately defend themselves.

In regards to mating, animals are selective. In a lot of cases they will kill a potential mate if they try to make a move on them. I guess maybe with your logic we should take Ted Nugent's advice of a good rapist is a dead rapist and to shoot them dead.


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## noaydi (Feb 18, 2011)

yop sorry I missed the point of your sentence and writed bunch of shit stuff that I didn't mean... I deleted the post


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## Mammon (Jul 12, 2012)

Persian said:


> Rapists are detrimental to the progress of humanity. They have an underdeveloped brain, and a high sex drive. I suspect that being a rapist is hereditary, because hormonal imbalances are passed down from father to son. Hormonal imbalances cause a higher sex drive.
> 
> I dislike when some people have sympathy for rapists. I am a victim of rape. Rape has affected my life a lot. Every night, since over a year ago when the event happened, I sit and cry. My nightmares every night are all about him. I have attempted suicide three times because of the pain. The event even caused much physical pain in my sensitive areas. At the peak of my pain a week ago, I couldn't even walk or sit down without feeling excruciating pain.
> 
> All rapists shouldn't be given sympathy. They should be shot in the head.


With saying things like that, you are not much different/better than the raper himself. Understandably so, but see how this shows we are all a monster in some way. You, me, and everyone else on this world. All but the rare few.

Sympathy or no sympathy, I still believe everyone deserves a helping hand before being condemned. The killers, the rapers, the brutes, everyone.


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## PowerShell (Feb 3, 2013)

no_id said:


> yop sorry I missed the point of your sentence and writed bunch of shit stuff that I didn't mean... I deleted the post


Are intoxicated or is English not your first language? Your grammar is horrible and most of the stuff you are saying is pretty incoherent.


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## noaydi (Feb 18, 2011)

> With saying things like that, you are not much different/better than the raper himself. Understandably so, but see how this shows we are all a monster in some way. You, me, and everyone else on this world. All but the rare few.
> 
> Sympathy or no sympathy, I still believe everyone deserves a helping hand before being condemned. The killers, the rapers, the brutes, everyone.


Absolutely : our bad experience should not overpower our empathy by hate. I can feel strongly the pain of the victim, but this don't make me blind to the existence as a man of the rapist

Ps to powershell, english is not my first langage


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## Persian (Jul 16, 2012)

Merihim said:


> With saying things like that, you are not much different/better than the raper himself. Understandably so, but see how this shows we are all a monster in some way. You, me, and everyone else on this world. All but the rare few.
> 
> Sympathy or no sympathy, I still believe everyone deserves a helping hand before being condemned. The killers, the rapers, the brutes, everyone.


He already had his time of enjoyment. That child pornographer rapist didn't just hurt me, he hurt many other young girls. Some of them died because of the extreme sexual acts he'd force us to perform.

He was a liar. He made us think he was our boyfriends, and would make us strip, by saying that it was his only wish, and crying if we refused.

Why should this filthy subhuman be helped. He needs to be destroyed. His surviving victims need to be helped.


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## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

Persian said:


> I am a victim of rape. Rape has affected my life a lot. Every night, since over a year ago when the event happened, I sit and cry. My nightmares every night are all about him. I have attempted suicide three times because of the pain. The event even caused much physical pain in my sensitive areas. At the peak of my pain a week ago, I couldn't even walk or sit down without feeling excruciating pain.


I'm sorry to hear this, and i can't imagine the depth of what you have gone through or the vulnerability you are experiencing. It really changes your whole existence and how you view the world, from what I can tell.

There was a book by Alice Sebold (who wrote "The Lovely Bones" that was so popular in the middle of the last decade) called "Lucky," about her experience as a rape victim while she was a college student. She wrote the book so that the word "rape" would be demystified a bit and so that people could actually talk about it and understand what it meant for someone who had gone through it. Often people can't even talk about it. I think people need to understand the impact of rape on someone's life, not just that they were raped. people seem unaware of how pervasive and lingering the feelings associated with that crime actually are.


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## All in Twilight (Oct 12, 2012)

Forget those studies and if not, read them again after they have raped your sister or girl friend. I dated a girl and she got raped while I was away. She still can't comprehend why people do such a horrible thing. 

Of course they are not mentally healthy, that's why they rape people. When a person uses any form of violence, then this person is literally mentally ill. I am sure there are many levels and degrees of illness but ill is ill and violence is violence and I do not tolerate this now do you? It's a lack of control and understanding of the mind thus unhealthy.


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## PowerShell (Feb 3, 2013)

no_id said:


> Ps to powershell, english is not my first langage


Ok that's good to know. I wasn't sure if you were just drunk and trolling or what was going on.



Persian said:


> Why should this filthy subhuman be helped. He needs to be destroyed. His surviving victims need to be helped.


In addition, those sort of genetics SHOULD NOT be passed on for another generation.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

Persian said:


> He already had his time of enjoyment. That child pornographer rapist didn't just hurt me, he hurt many other young girls. Some of them died because of the extreme sexual acts he'd force us to perform.
> 
> He was a liar. He made us think he was our boyfriends, and would make us strip, by saying that it was his only wish, and crying if we refused.
> 
> Why should this filthy subhuman be helped. He needs to be destroyed. His surviving victims need to be helped.


Lacking empathy for someone who is probably not capable of being rehabilitated and functioning in society without hurting innocent people DOES NOT make one "as bad as the perpetrator." 

I agree that the empathy should be used for the victims and for potential victims of a person who is given a second (or tenth) chance to re-offend.

I don't want to see people who abuse other people suffer, but I don't believe they should be allowed out in society when they've already shown a pattern of victimizing innocent people. My empathy doesn't extend to their desire to live so that they can hurt others. If I was in the position of being a rapist who tortured and hurt innocent people, then I would want to either be executed or condemned to a life in prison so that others wouldn't have to suffer from me.

(I'm actually not directing that at you Persian, but at Merihim).

I'm sorry that happened to you, Persian--and I think your anger and lack of empathy for rapists is healthy. It's way better than directing it at yourself. He was the one who made the choice to hurt other people, you shouldn't have to carry his guilt, though I know you will have to heal and recover from the trauma because it happened.

As for the OP--I imagine that a lot of rapists don't fit the extreme profiles that Jennywocky posted. I read an article about violent spousal abusers and how most of them don't really "qualify" as mentally ill by the diagnostic stuff (yeah, I'm not articulate right now). However, it's hard to see people like this as mentally healthy.

Edit: I don't know what kind of services are available for perpetrators. Some perpetrators probably don't view their behavior as unhealthy or have any reason to seek treatment. But there should be treatment available for those who want to change.


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## Mammon (Jul 12, 2012)

Persian said:


> He already had his time of enjoyment. That child pornographer rapist didn't just hurt me, he hurt many other young girls. Some of them died because of the extreme sexual acts he'd force us to perform.
> 
> He was a liar. He made us think he was our boyfriends, and would make us strip, by saying that it was his only wish, and crying if we refused.
> 
> Why should this filthy subhuman be helped. He needs to be destroyed. His surviving victims need to be helped.


I understand you think this way, I really do. I do not know what it's like to experience something horrible like that and then having to carry this with you for the rest of your life, seeping over in many aspects of your life most likely. 

Every problem has a source but we only look at the cause and condemn accordingly, and so, we didn't do anything of absolutely any worth. To think we did is unwise. Instead we need to get to the source or nothing will ever change. We should not condemn the source either, for even that may be the cause of another source. Instead we should correct the source. You need to get to the source of this or it will keep on CAUSING you problems. Such as crying and being in constant pain or wanting the raper dead (Yes this is a an actual problem). If people actually tried to correct the source in the fist place, things like this would be way less frequent and eventually the world would become a better place.

Indeed, the raper was the source. But that is now most likely replaced with a grudge. The grudge is you.

BTW: I'm not trying to be annoying or anything I'm trying to help you. And I can only hope I'm being of some kind of help.


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## Persian (Jul 16, 2012)

PowerShell said:


> In addition, those sort of genetics SHOULD NOT be passed on for another generation.


I agree. Rapists are dysgenic. They rip the very fabric of the instinctual selective breeding (eugenics) that brought humans to the level where we can build robots.


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## TheProcrastinatingMaster (Jun 4, 2012)

All in Twilight said:


> Forget those studies and if not, read them again after they have raped your sister or girl friend. I dated a girl and she got raped while I was away. She still can't comprehend why people do such a horrible thing.
> 
> Of course they are not mentally healthy, that's why they rape people. _*When a person uses any form of violence, then this person is literally mentally ill. I am sure there are many levels and degrees of illness but ill is ill and violence is violence and I do not tolerate this now do you? It's a lack of control and understanding of the mind thus unhealthy.*_


That's pretty stupid.:dry:


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

Merihim said:


> I understand you think this way, I really do. I do not know what it's like to experience something horrible like that and then having to carry this with you for the rest of your life, seeping over in many aspects of your life most likely.
> 
> Every problem has a source but we only look at the cause and condemn accordingly, and so, we didn't do anything of absolutely any worth. To think we did is unwise. Instead we need to get to the source or nothing will ever change. We should not condemn the source either, for even that may be the cause of another source. Instead we should correct the source. You need to get to the source of this or it will keep on CAUSING you problems. Such as crying and being in constant pain or wanting the raper dead (Yes this is a an actual problem). If people actually tried to correct the source in the fist place, things like this would be way less frequent and eventually the world would become a better place.
> 
> ...


What are you talking about?

Are you a rape victim counselor? Why is having normal emotional reactions to a trauma "a problem"? 

And Persian is not "a grudge." She's a person who experienced a trauma and is in the process of working through that and healing from it.


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## ForsakenMe (Aug 30, 2010)

Sure they are. So are serial killers who eat their victims after murdering them in cold blood.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

After really briefly looking up articles about the psychology of rape--New Studies Map the Mind of the Rapist - New York Times

(I thought that one was kind of useful ^ but IDK the date of it.)

--I see that there are a lot of different types of rapists and that most of them are just opportunists who are acting impulsively.

Here is another article that makes the distinction between sexual sadism and rape as a crime Most Rapists Are Not Sadists | Psychology Today

This is from the article,

" If this distinction is not made, most rapists could receive an incorrect mental disorder diagnosis of Sexual Sadism. They would then be subject to SVP psychiatric commitment for what is really just a crime, not a mental disorder. Being violent and callous during a rape are inherent to the crime and do not qualify as a mental disorder. 
Such loose usage of Sexual Sadism would be an abuse of psychiatric diagnosis, leading to unjustified psychiatric incarceration."



Also--I want to admit to Meriham that although I attacked your knowledge of the process of dealing with rape trauma, I am actually also completely ignorant about the process. I haven't read any books about it or anything, though I've experienced date rape and also an attempt.

Even though I get angry about issues around rape and abuse, I do feel that empathy is important and I have never lost the ability to empathize with the person who raped me. I agree that we need to focus on solutions rather than revenge.

I don't know much about the issue--but it seems like it would be hard for a person who raped another person to seek treatment or therapy for that. I know that counselors are mandated reporters--but I don't know if they are required to report incidences in the past, where someone has been injured. I think that anyone who has raped another person, and who has the capacity to see that their behavior was hurtful and to feel remorse for that, should be given the opportunity to seek treatment.


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## WindowLicker (Aug 3, 2010)

Personally I don't think they are. I don't think they're certifiably "insane," but to live with that much ignorance of another persons safety, health, and well being can't make them "sane" either. Maybe they just don't care. At the very least I'd consider a rapist a sociopath, and prisons are full of them for a reason.


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## Persian (Jul 16, 2012)

Whoever shows compassion for rapists should go live with them for a year.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

And I'm just going to put this out there now--I realize I am kind of just talking to myself but I have a lot of feelings and thoughts about this. Think of this as kind of a soapbox and read it if you want.

I get irritated when people suggest that rape targets have empathy for rapists in general. And I've expressed this in other threads as well as here.

I feel like I have a lot of empathy and that a lot of rape targets also do. But I am unsure of the healthy relationship between empathy of the target and the perpetrator.

I know that in domestic violence situations, often times the abuse is prolonged because the target feels some care towards the perp. And there are obvious examples of empathetic/sympathetic people having their empathy manipulated by someone who wants to exploit them.

Persian's story included details of him "crying" and the children reacting to that crying with some sympathy--and it was really a ruse to exploit them.

I don't want to empathize with certain people because I feel it has made me more vulnerable/inactive in the past. I also, just plain don't want to be around certain types of people, as well. And I want to distinguish between people who I believe really deserve care, and people who seem to want to invoke sympathy/empathy/care in order to exploit and hurt others.

For example--when I was in second grade, me and a couple other little girls (one was in first grade) were playing in the park. A man came over, went pee near to us, and then sat down about 7-10 feet away from us. He proceeded to pull his junk out and start touching it while watching us pretend to cook food for a picnic.

The other girls began sniggering at him, and I tried to shush them because I felt that he was obviously mentally retarded to not know that he wasn't supposed to be pulling out his junk in public, and that laughing at him was mean and could hurt his feelings.

He did that for a while, and he got up and came over to us and asked us a question. I'm not going to repeat it.

Anyway--we left and talked about what we should do. Should we tell an adult? That was one of the girl's ideas.

So we did--but by then it was too late. He was gone, and by the time the sheriff was called, he was nowhere on the streets.

If my initial response was to be angry--not to care for the man's well being and feel sorry for him because he was being laughed at and because I thought he must have been retarded or mentally ill, someone might have caught him.

Who knows if he went on to molest children? Or if he had molested children before. But if I had addressed the problem in a more aggressive way, then maybe those children that he may or may not have molested wouldn't have gotten molested.

So anyway--I have a lot of conflicting feelings about empathy. I think it should be used with discretion and I do not think that anger is bad. I know that I was a child in the above situation, but as an adult I don't feel that empathy should be a default reaction (yes, maybe if someone is proposing a human rights violation). When I look back at my own situation with rape, I want to be angry and I do not want to be empathetic. I do not think that being angry is a failure at empathy for everyone.


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## CaptSwan (Mar 31, 2013)

In my opinion; nobody who's capable of putting another person (male or female) through the horror of rape or any form of sexual abuse can be in his right mind. Like it's been stated before; rape isn't about sex as muc as it is about control; to have a person at your mercy to do with them as you please. And, no healthy person would want that for a fellow human being.


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## sanari (Aug 23, 2011)

Rapists are merely people whose sense of proper behavior has been overwritten by their physical desires or need for control. They are no more mentally unhealthy than homosexuals.


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## Shabby (Feb 14, 2013)

Rape is such a common place thing that it is only natural that it has been ingrained in our societies. We make flippant jokes about rape and violence towards women (men too, but women in particular). It is not like rape is a one off event and a rapist isn't just some man or woman you hear about on TV but is usually someone you know (another example are the university rape scandals). Power and sex are very intertwined and it is not surprising that it could lead to some pretty horrible actions if not kept in check or performed in healthy ways. 

Rapists are not healthy. Mentally however, they are just fine. Unless they had a predisposition to an actual mental illness or are mentally unstable in some other way. Many a time rapists get away with it by claiming that they are not mentally well. That may be so, but not because of some mental illness that makes them rape but rather because of their own incapacity to see the difference between sexually healthy and 'power trip' relationships (ex: BDSM, S&M, Consensual "non-consensual" sex, etc...) and infringing on another person's sexual and bodily rights. 



Being said:


> Rapists are merely people whose sense of proper behavior has been overwritten by their physical desires or need for control. They are no more mentally unhealthy than homosexuals.


I don't understand the need for a link between rapists and homosexuals. Not because I disagree with your point, but rather because I have heard the homosexual rapist rhetoric so many times that I just resent when the two are compared in any way.


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## PowerShell (Feb 3, 2013)

Being said:


> They are no more mentally unhealthy than homosexuals.


Or serial killers?


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## Pom87 (Apr 7, 2012)

ForsakenMe said:


> Sure they are. So are serial killers who eat their victims after murdering them in cold blood.


:laughing:


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## monemi (Jun 24, 2013)

Being said:


> Rapists are merely people whose sense of proper behavior has been overwritten by their physical desires or need for control. They are no more mentally unhealthy than homosexuals.


I completely disagree with any comparison between rapists and homosexuals.


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## thegirlcandance (Jul 29, 2009)

Tharwen said:


> according to some studies, they are.
> 
> but who would commit such acts without being seriously messed up?
> 
> what do you think?


Simply: No, as the act itself implies dependency. It's like a person being addicted to alcohol or a drug. They overrun their ability to really be understanding of another for the sake of pleasure.

There are several different situations and scenarios though, which puts it into a bit more of a gray area. Like, if, say, a woman claims she was raped but the man believed it was okay at the time. It's not so black and white there, but there's still likely some form of dependency present there from one or both parties. Gets a bit tricky and definitely no "one size fits all".


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## Mammon (Jul 12, 2012)

meltedsorbet said:


> What are you talking about?
> 
> Are you a rape victim counselor? Why is having normal emotional reactions to a trauma "a problem"?
> 
> And Persian is not "a grudge." She's a person who experienced a trauma and is in the process of working through that and healing from it.


WTF chill out I was merely trying to help. You got no business on me.


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## dvnj22 (Apr 24, 2013)

If by mentally healthy you mean absent of a mental disorder then I would say yes. It's a myth that only schizo and bi polar people hurt others. In fact they are more likely to be a victim.


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## purposive (Jun 4, 2013)

You state that there are studies that suggest rapists to be mentally healthy, yet there are no studies offered to back up your statements. I am really curious. And yep, too lazy to google.


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## JamesSteal (Apr 14, 2013)

"Mentally healthy" is a subjective statement. A person who fulfills their desires/needs without considering the empathy of others is not mentally ill. Is a lion mentally ill when it kills and eats a baby hyena? Is a cat mentally ill when it tortures and kills a mouse for fun?

A chicken doesn't want to be murdered, but I ignore it's rights so I can have a nice meal. My desire is more important than it's desire, much like a rapist's desire is more important than it's victim's. Does that make me mentally ill? _"Psychopath"_ and _"mentally ill"_ are just boogeyman terms, it's sheer name-calling.


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## Number Six (Mar 4, 2013)

I don't think they're mentally ill so much as really fucking inept at self control. They're as psychologically competent as most people, in my opinion...which may not say much in the long run.

I definitely think they deserve as much understanding and compassion as their victims or else we'll never evolve beyond this primal stupidity; desire for revenge is as archaic as rape, so when someone says a rapist deserves to be shot in the head, they're showing as little empathy as the rapist showed their victims...I'm sure it feels great to dehumanize someone like that, but it's caveman thinking and really just turns you into a mirror image of the thing you're hating. It's unsurprising that the irony of this is lost on most people; rape victims invariably love people fighting their corner and the mob invariably loves something to tear apart. Empathy rarely enters into it.




All in Twilight said:


> When a person uses any form of violence, then this person is literally mentally ill.


I personally do not see how martial arts are a form of mental illness.

Talking in absolutes is a form of mental illness, shared by most of the world.


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## Persian (Jul 16, 2012)

JamesSteal said:


> much like a rapist's desire is more important than it's victim's.


Why, must I ask? 

You have never been raped. How are years of physical suffering the same as having a moment of pleasure?

They are mentally ill for thinking that they are above their victims.


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## snail (Oct 13, 2008)

I don't know if they are unhealthy in general, but the ex-boyfriend who used to rape me was not mentally healthy. He was likely a narcissist. He saw himself as some kind of savior figure, and he had some really messed up childhood issues because of his dad torturing him at a very early age and his mother being mostly absent from his life until he was an adult. He hated women partly because of seeing his dad abuse his mom, partly because of his dad punishing any signs of weakness, partly because of how he was treated by his sexist grandmother who had been abused by men, and partly because the little girls at school rejected him and verbally abused him for being fat and dorky. He probably wasn't born a monster, although he showed signs of possibly being an aspie and he frequently misread other people's intentions/reactions. After guests left, if he wasn't spewing hateful rants about wanting to hurt them for being stupid or evil, he would ask me repeatedly if he did a convincing enough job of seeming normal/social, and his insecurity over his ability to blend in was a huge source of distress for him. He had been violently abused even for trivial accidents as a child, so when he became abusive, it may have been because he was still terrified of incompetence. He always blamed things on other people and got angry over the most insignificant mistakes. If he messed something up, he would get violently angry with those around him for not preventing the error, but if someone mentioned it in time to prevent it, second-guessing his choices would also enrage him, perhaps as a mask for his fear or embarrassment over having his imperfection revealed. He was just a mess in general. I've never gotten emotionally close to any other rapists, so this is the only one I can discuss in any detail. I suspect most rapists have issues of some sort such as personality disorders or a painful past.


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## Number Six (Mar 4, 2013)

snail said:


> I don't know if they are unhealthy in general, but the ex-boyfriend who used to rape me was not mentally healthy. He was likely a narcissist. He saw himself as some kind of savior figure, and he had some really messed up childhood issues because of his dad torturing him at a very early age and his mother being mostly absent from his life until he was an adult. He hated women partly because of seeing his dad abuse his mom, partly because of his dad punishing any signs of weakness, partly because of how he was treated by his sexist grandmother who had been abused by men, and partly because the little girls at school rejected him and verbally abused him for being fat and dorky. He probably wasn't born a monster, although he showed signs of possibly being an aspie and he frequently misread other people's intentions/reactions. After guests left, if he wasn't spewing hateful rants about wanting to hurt them for being stupid or evil, he would ask me repeatedly if he did a convincing enough job of seeming normal/social, and his insecurity over his ability to blend in was a huge source of distress for him. He had been violently abused even for trivial accidents as a child, so when he became abusive, it may have been because he was still terrified of incompetence. He always blamed things on other people and got angry over the most insignificant mistakes. If he messed something up, he would get violently angry with those around him for not preventing the error, but if someone mentioned it in time to prevent it, second-guessing his choices would also enrage him, perhaps as a mask for his fear or embarrassment over having his imperfection revealed. He was just a mess in general. I've never gotten emotionally close to any other rapists, so this is the only one I can discuss in any detail. I suspect most rapists have issues of some sort such as personality disorders or a painful past.


That is really intense. I think it's quite remarkable that you can view him with understanding and not just blind rage. Commendable, even.


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## Bricolage (Jul 29, 2012)

I once heard something like 90% of rapes involve alcohol. So, in the moment, I wouldn't say the rapist is totally in control. I wonder if rapists have super high testosterone or were raped/abused themselves.


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## JamesSteal (Apr 14, 2013)

Persian said:


> Why, must I ask?
> 
> You have never been raped. How are years of physical suffering the same as having a moment of pleasure?
> 
> They are mentally ill for thinking that they are above their victims.


You're assuming that all rape victims go through years of physical suffering. It's the same as assuming that all returning soldiers from the Middle East go through years of Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder. Not everyone who becomes a victim engages in self-pity, some eventually get over it.


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## PaladinX (Feb 20, 2013)

Committing an act of rape does not necessarily mean the rapist is mentally ill. I am not condoning it, but at times some people are just overwhelmed by their impulses and it could be for a myriad of reasons. A serial rapist, on the other hand, is probably mentally ill.


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## rawrmosher (Apr 22, 2013)

Rapists just suffer from extreme sexual frustration as well as power/anger issues. Personally I think they'd have to be incredibly messed up to act on those impulses, but I'm not exactly an expert


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## 21262 (Apr 20, 2011)

RandomNote said:


> When the sex drive over takes rationality or if they're into that kinda stuff.....lots of reasons really.


Yup, it's not simple and it can be from a variety of reasons. It could simply be a power grab, the fact people are into that sort of thing, the fact that their sex drive took over their reasoning or a simple mistake as to whether they thought they had consent. I've actually heard of a case where a man was halfway through with a girl and then stopped, got upset and left - he realised that no really meant no in that circumstance: he didn't mean to rape the girl he just didn't realise she hadn't consented.

There's a huge variety of reasons, and as a bloke, let's not pretend that any one of us would _never _be in that situation.

Of course, some would say that it's a result of societal structure etc but personally I think that's nuts.


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## Alles_Paletti (May 15, 2013)

If feel anyone who has even the most remote bit of sympathy for a rapist is mentally unhealthy. 

Rape is the worst crime there is as it is always, always selfish and just aimed at the satisfaction of a personal need. 

There's no reason, no excuse that's good enough for putting another person through that for your personal needs. Except if they are rapists themselves - then they should be ass-raped without lube first so they get a feeling of what they put the victim through. 

There is absolutely only one person who deserves sympathy and that's the victim.


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## Aenye (Jul 13, 2013)

Tharwen said:


> according to some studies, they are.
> 
> but who would commit such acts without being seriously messed up?
> 
> what do you think?


I see majority of them as healthy, but malicious people. They enjoy what they do and often come up with attempts to justify it, shifting blame to the victim: because 'she dresses like a slut, she drank, she walked alone at night, she just walked...SHE'S A WOMAN!'

Josef Fritzl knew what he was doing and he enjoyed it.




> _On August 28, 1984, the day that 18-year old Elisabeth Fritzl's father demanded that she help him carry a new door down to the basement, she could little have imagined the years of terror that would ensue from that simple chore. While such a mundane request would not ordinarily seem ominous, Josef Fritzl was no ordinary father. The imposing, stern man had allegedly first raped his daughter Elisabeth when she was just 11 years old.
> 
> __ Fritzl had physically assaulted, sexually abused, and raped her numerous times during her imprisonment. The abuse by her father resulted in the birth of seven children and one miscarriage; four of the children joined their mother in captivity, and three were raised by Josef and Rosemarie Fritzl and reported as foundlings._


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## Tharwen (Mar 20, 2013)

JamesSteal said:


> You're assuming that all rape victims go through years of physical suffering. It's the same as assuming that all returning soldiers from the Middle East go through years of Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder. Not everyone who becomes a victim engages in self-pity, some eventually get over it.


well yeah, thats quite right. i couldnt care less about misfortunous experiences, ive had plenty of those, so why not one more?

but its the health issue that annoys me. stds. and like with violence, permanent injuries. ugh.. -_-

although it does anger me how anyone could be so stupid as to see selfish pleasure more meaningful than sustaining order in humanity. i would rather die than hurt another willingly.


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## IDontThinkSo (Aug 24, 2011)

Tharwen said:


> what do you think?


Attacking people is stupid.. thus.. attacking people when being stupid .. is probably normal.


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## Bricolage (Jul 29, 2012)

Something like 90% of rapes involve alcohol...mentally healthy at the time...probably not entirely.


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## B00Bz (Jul 11, 2013)

RandomNote said:


> When the sex drive over takes rationality or if they're into that kinda stuff.....lots of reasons really.


Most likely this.


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## series0 (Feb 18, 2013)

He's a Superhero! said:


> The bar of good to evil is a different one to healthy and unhealthy, but they can correlate.


And I simply disagree. I think one's expression of evil is equal to one's immaturity. I think in time science will realize this is so and is only slow in doing so for sociopolitical reasons. It will also be realized or become apparent how insanity or woundedness is no valid defense. It may be impossible not to be wounded, but in such a case it is also impossible not to be evil. Damage can cause evil.


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## He's a Superhero! (May 1, 2013)

series0 said:


> And I simply disagree. I think one's expression of evil is equal to one's immaturity. I think in time science will realize this is so and is only slow in doing so for sociopolitical reasons. It will also be realized or become apparent how insanity or woundedness is no valid defense. It may be impossible not to be wounded, but in such a case it is also impossible not to be evil. Damage can cause evil.


Your comment implies two things...Evil is damage, and evil is immaturity.

My answer:

Evil is common in immaturity, however this is not always the case. Those who express evil can be very mature people. Evil comes in many forms, and although some evils are simple, others are deep and complicated. With some it takes a sharp mind, while others need a schemer. Maturity in mind is a requirement for some evils, and maturity in body others.

View it as the "health" bars of a character in a game. A person's maturity, level of health (mental or physical), and a person's alignment can all be seen as separate bars, and do not necessarily effect eachother. You are right though that being wounded can encourage evil (as I said...they can correlate), but it is not the source. Evil is a choice.


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## Tharwen (Mar 20, 2013)

series0 said:


> If by mentally healthy you mean they don't necessarily exhibit psychoses then I would say that yes they certainly can be mentally healthy. But only by that limited definition.
> 
> I do think as science progresses we will start to classify mentally healthy people on a sliding scale. There may be differing vectors for this scale resulting in a composite score. The score will also be a way to measure a person's maturity. Clearly on some vectors a rapist is immature and thus unhealthy.
> 
> Compassion for others as well as controlling ones own lust for power are components of a healthy, mature psyche.


as i have observed, people only get more stupid by age. more reckless, less caring of others, more violentic, and so on.
but there still does seem to be an universal scale that people could be classified by: impulsivity vs stability.

but i do not think most countries even want their psychology to be developed to the next stage from boxing people, since most countries work by molding people into a mold, which itself disregards individuals emotional wellbeing by limiting them from being themselves, so id say, most countries are inherently evil, and without a revolution, wont change. i do not think we will be seeing much change for the positive in the next coming 100 years. usa seems to be theo only country where i could see a revolution for the better happening inside my lifetime. at least some people are trying, whether they succeed is another story..


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## series0 (Feb 18, 2013)

Tharwen said:


> as i have observed, people only get more stupid by age. more reckless, less caring of others, more violentic, and so on.
> but there still does seem to be an universal scale that people could be classified by: impulsivity vs stability.
> 
> but i do not think most countries even want their psychology to be developed to the next stage from boxing people, since most countries work by molding people into a mold, which itself disregards individuals emotional wellbeing by limiting them from being themselves, so id say, most countries are inherently evil, and without a revolution, wont change. i do not think we will be seeing much change for the positive in the next coming 100 years. usa seems to be theo only country where i could see a revolution for the better happening inside my lifetime. at least some people are trying, whether they succeed is another story..


I agree that age, beyond a certain point seems to usually cause problems in how people behave towards their fellow man. But I find usually this is an issue of damage. As discussed, damage can certainly increase the chances of evil, or immature behavior. In cases where individuals have enough wealth, resources, and an inclination towards wisdom and maturity, I see age as a positive. The more experience one gains the more one is able to mature and progress the self.

Agreed that countries and institutions I think in particular (corporations) seek to control and limit the range of mature responses they are prepared to accept. Other aspects of maturity are heavily selected out, especially any of those mature talents NOT leading to increased profits or stability. Agreed that this activity is evil and unfortunately not seen by the mainstream as such in most cases. 

We disagree though on the next 100 years. Technology and awareness has reached such a level that the world stands on the brink of a different type of revolution than ever before, one of consciousness. For the first time the masses have a fair penetration into at least the possibility of great maturity. 

The United States will either be the focal point for this change or it will give birth to the change and the change will sweep in from elsewhere leveraging the culture the U.S. largely exported. If we do not fall into a police state world, we could win, we could all win. Anarchy would better than the police state. I see it headed to a police state almost in freefall. I fear greatly that mainstream ignorance and apathy will land us in a hell the likes of which we have never seen. Techno-elite police state. Cameras everywhere and 99.99% credit slaves. We are mostly there already.

Rape is everywhere.


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## thor odinson (May 21, 2011)

If they weren't why would people try to rehabilitate them?


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## Belzy (Aug 12, 2013)

conscius said:


> You said you're insulted that rape can happen anywhere and with anybody involved. How is that insulting to YOU? Rape can happen in a marriage, with people who have known each other for many years. Do you deny that? Rape can happen on a first date with strangers. Rape can happen in a bedroom, in a bar, in the back of a car, in a prison, etc. Do you deny that?
> 
> Second point, this is not "blaming" the victim. This is saying that there are things one can do to protect oneself and decrease the likelihood of bad things happening. If you think that you should be allowed to say what you want or do what you want and that the world has to be a fair place and nothing bad happens, then you live in a fantasy. I'm talking about practicals of how to prevent something bad happening to you.
> 
> ...


Just forget it. I misunderstood you, therefore everything thing I said is misunderstood by you.


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## Sai (Sep 3, 2012)

yes they can be ¨healthy¨. Rape is very natural on the animal world, and maybe it can be as traumatizing for certain mammals just like humans. I really dont care much if the rapist is healthy or not, if i see a rapist i would kill him with my own hands (more brutally if its the case of a child molester).


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## conscius (Apr 20, 2010)

AAADD said:


> Just forget it. I misunderstood you, therefore everything thing I said is misunderstood by you.


No problem, sorry.


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## Aubbs (Jun 12, 2012)

Sai said:


> yes they can be ¨healthy¨. Rape is very natural on the animal world, and maybe it can be as traumatizing for certain mammals just like humans. I really dont care much if the rapist is healthy or not, if i see a rapist i would kill him with my own hands (more brutally if its the case of a child molester).


I agree, they're playing a game of dominance so there is enough conscious decision happening. Pleading anything for me is not only degrading but pathetic on their part. Own up to it and take the consequences, highly deserved.


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## Brian1 (May 7, 2011)

I would argue rape is an impulsive act, and since everyone has impulses, everyone can do it. I think it's when you add on other things like killing, that needs to be worked out. The ones who have empathy, are not going to kill, and as a person grows older it would just flow into common sense tells me I should learn how to control my sexual impulses,otherwise things may turn out bad. And that is sort of the genesis of how people come to view such things. 

I think people who have a history, of not getting caught in anything, will want to rape more. Because if you can get away on a small scale, think of what you can get away with on a big scale.. This is just my opinion though.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

No, I can't believe this is even a question. To people who say things like "they are just sexually frustrated" ...no, if they are sexually frustrated, they can make friends with Mr. Harry Palm. I don't go around raping men if I'm sexually frustrated. Shut the fuck up. Rape is an act of violence that is about power; rape isn't even about sex.

As for the people saying it has something to do with the animal kingdom...um, again...look, we aren't on the same level as animals who don't have opposable thumbs, live in caves and have short life spans. We are cerebrally developed and live in highly advanced technological societies. Therefore, the only people this would apply to are retarded people, and if you want to make a case for the genes of retarded and socipathic people "needing" to be in the gene pool, you must be sadly mistaken, I think someone actually made a very good point that the products of rape are often aborted, and even before abortion was legal rape babies were often abandoned or abused by the parent.

And no, a man who is angry enough to rape women out of anger isn't mentally healthy. I saw someone say they are probably mentally healthy but angry. Um no. If you are angry enough at entire gender to start raping, beating or killing them at random, you are most definitely NOT mentally healthy; you may not have schizophrenia or bipolar disorder, but you still aren't mentally healthy.

Is this even a question? 

We currently live in a rape culture where men feel ENTITLED to sex. Free sex at that. Women who don't want to engage in casual sex are seen as bitches or prudes, or women who are selective and don't want to sleep with the man in question are now seen as someone to be manipulated or tricked by PUA, rather than won over wholesomely by friendship, romance, or offers of commitment.The very same men would answer this question with things like "sure maybe if I was sexually frustrated" precisely because they have been conditioned to think women OWE THEM FREE SEX.

WHAT THE FUCK. Go hire a prostitute, shithead.


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## Aubbs (Jun 12, 2012)

Rape is impulsive to thoughs who are prone to sexual violence because one, they can't take "no" to their sexual advances and have inflated ego or they're so impaired with dealing with relationships they take it out in aggression, sure they may or may not mean too but definitely prone to violence and dominating ... But the implication is that no, I don't think everyone has the impulse too.








Brian1 said:


> I would argue rape is an impulsive act, and since everyone has impulses, everyone can do it. I think it's when you add on other things like killing, that needs to be worked out. The ones who have empathy, are not going to kill, and as a person grows older it would just flow into common sense tells me I should learn how to control my sexual impulses,otherwise things may turn out bad. And that is sort of the genesis of how people come to view such things.
> 
> I think people who have a history, of not getting caught in anything, will want to rape more. Because if you can get away on a small scale, think of what you can get away with on a big scale.. This is just my opinion though.


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