# Could you please help me figure out my "type"



## Arden (Feb 22, 2013)

Ok I'm new to all this and I'm teetering on thinking its a load of bunk. BUT that being said if you can help "type" me that would be great.

I have taken test after test. 

First I got INTP
....sounded good
then I got INFP
....didn't agree with that at all
then I got ISFP
I could identify with that one just as well as the INTP
Got INFP again.... 

I seem to rotate almost equally between these 3 results.

INTP and ISFP I both identify with almost equally

INFP - I don't see it.

How do I know which is my correct type?


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## drumsensei29 (Mar 30, 2012)

you can be infp or whatever xxxx type for that matter and not fit the generic layout of your type as a matter of fact I hope you are an offbeat INFP, there are alot of them on this forum


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## Arden (Feb 22, 2013)

drumsensei29 said:


> you can be infp or whatever xxxx type for that matter and not fit the generic layout of your type as a matter of fact I hope you are an offbeat INFP, there are alot of them on this forum


LOL - ok why's that? I mean why an INFP?

.....isn't the whole point of this to figure out what you are?

how do I know?

one of the tests said the answer you get most often... but like I said I get all 3 of these types almost equally when I test.


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## Arden (Feb 22, 2013)

the only commonality seems to be "I _ _ P"


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## drumsensei29 (Mar 30, 2012)

well if 12 people told you that you were INTP would you believe it then


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## Arden (Feb 22, 2013)

drumsensei29 said:


> well if 12 people told you that you were INTP would you believe it then


No I wouldn't.

Not without some kind of acceptable explaination anyway.


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## Ellis Bell (Mar 16, 2012)

You could also try filling out a questionnaire, that might help us understand your thought processes more.

http://personalitycafe.com/whats-my-personality-type/99679-whats-my-type-questionnaire.html

Why do you think MBTI is a load of bunk? Ie, why the skepticism?


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

drumsensei29 said:


> you can be infp or whatever xxxx type for that matter and not fit the generic layout of your type as a matter of fact I hope you are an offbeat INFP, there are a lot of them on this forum


Solution: Read up on MBTI.

Side note: MBTI got 16 types and if you want to get typed in MBTI then you belong to one of those 16 types, that's the first rule of logic.

To want to get typed in MBTI and then say that you are untypable in the system is plain out silly.


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## Sol_ (Jan 8, 2013)

Make a ~10 min video-interview with a tale about yourself, do not mess with that funny questionnaire. Link to video place in 1st message of the thread.


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## Arden (Feb 22, 2013)

Ellis Bell said:


> You could also try filling out a questionnaire, that might help us understand your thought processes more.
> 
> http://personalitycafe.com/whats-my-personality-type/99679-whats-my-type-questionnaire.html
> 
> Why do you think MBTI is a load of bunk? Ie, why the skepticism?


Because I have taken the tests - various versions - and consistantly gotten 3 diffrent "types"

A friend of mine said that it was your "base" personality or who you would be had you not been influenced by learned behavior.

As to the various types there have been only two consistant answer "introvert" _ _ "perciving"

I will agree that I have always been the "perciving" type rather than the judging type but I remember very distinctly taking this test in high school and being scored as an "extrovert"

While I do belive I probably an an introvert by nature the very fact that I tested as an extrovert in highschool shows me there are flaws in the design.

Then we move to the topic of "sensing" vs "intuition" I percive these concepts as not very distinctive. For example - I Yoda says. "I sense the force is strong within you..." he is describing a type of "intuitiveness" about a person.

How is there a diffrence between intuition and "sensing" ....and furthermore "sensing" is also interchangeable with "feeling"

Which brings us to "thinking" vs "feeling" ....obviously these concepts are unique to each other but what if they parallel? I am both. Or at least that's how see it.

Also, going back to the idea of a "base" personality?

We may all have inclinations that we fall into. preference if you will. but outside of a persons deepest animal nature almost all our behavior if "learned" 
Our instincts are not "thinking" reactions... they're autonomic.

So for these above mentioned points I find it difficult to grasp that every person falls into ONE of 16 distinctive profiles. Its not logical. The explination of "base" personality is to my notion a way of making quiet any questionability of the theory. Basically saying you can't "prove" this is incorrect because to do so would "imply" you are diluted or uninlightened about yourself....

Its the oldest pshycological game in the book. Instincts dictate a want of "belonging" amongst most people. 

Its kind of like the poster above said about if 12 people said you where "X" you would belived it. I think for most people that would be true. Just not for me. My nature requires an acceptable understanding of somthing before I follow... Be it a rational explination that appels to my logic. Or a gut feeling that tells me its ok to trust the cercumstance.

I may not have a large enough grasp on the concept. Which is why I'm asking the questions I am. But at this juncture I am a little skeptical.


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## Ellis Bell (Mar 16, 2012)

Well, as @_Ace_rbusvenator says, it's best then to read up on the functions. It's not all about the dichotomies--E/I, N/S, etc. Social introverts can be cognative extraverts and so on. And when we use terms like sensing and intuition, we are not talking about them in the colloquial sense.


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## Ellis Bell (Mar 16, 2012)

> So for these above mentioned points I find it difficult to grasp that every person falls into ONE of 16 distinctive profiles. Its not logical. The explination of "base" personality is to my notion a way of making quiet any questionability of the theory. Basically saying you can't "prove" this is incorrect because to do so would "imply" you are diluted or uninlightened about yourself....
> 
> Its the oldest pshycological game in the book. Instincts dictate a want of "belonging" amongst most people.


OK, so given that you just wrote all of this about the theory, why are you asking to be typed?


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Arden said:


> Because I have taken the tests - various versions - and consistantly gotten 3 diffrent "types"
> 
> A friend of mine said that it was your "base" personality or who you would be had you not been influenced by learned behavior.
> 
> ...


You seem to have fallen for the misunderstanding that most tests and stuff like that have brought about the system.
MBTI isn't about your personality per se, it is about how you process information, your personality might be colored by your MBTI type, but it is far from the only contributor.

The MBTI dichotomies are truly silly to a large degree (the E, I, N, S, T, F, P, J) because they create such misunderstanding of the system itself.
Bellow the dichotomies are the cognitive functions.
You are right that you are a little of everything and that is what people don't understand that MBTI is saying before they study the cognitive functions.
INTP - Ti Ne Si Fe
INFP - Fi Ne Si Te
ISFP - Fi Se Ni Te

Many also mistake the functions to have characteristics in themselves (Fi does this, Te does this) when they are simply categories. These categories are however prone to certain characteristics like Fi is very focus on personal values and Ne about verbalizing ideas.

Introverted functions (Xi) are subjective/introverted and focus around you.
Extraverted functions (Xe) are objective/extraverted and focus around the external world.

For this reason then someone with Ne will talk about all their different ideas (especially ENPs since Ne is dominant for them) whereas Ni is internal and might seldom talk about ideas.

The sensory function is about how you perceive the world.
Se users take everything as it is. A tree is a tree, nothing more.
Si users got a personalized perception. A tree is not just a tree, but the tree you played in as a child.

The intuitive function is about how you create and connect ideas.
Ne users like to discuss their ideas with other people and keep it open to change.
Ni users don't prefer to discuss their ideas with other people, or will only share a small part of the idea with other people.

The feeling function is about your values.
Fe users often got values that are focused on many people, Fe is collective (tho that is ofc affected by culture etc.).
Fi users often got values that are personal and they are often as stubborn about those values as Ti users are about their ideas. Fi is individualistic.

The thinking function is about how you reason.
Te users often talk out loud about their thoughts (unlike the intuitive function then these are finalized ideas) and are open to new input to improve the thought.
Ti users keep their thoughts internal and are just as stubborn about their view on things like Fi users are about values. They seldom care about your input.

It's important to note that the "it's just a thought" phase is when the intuitive function is mainly active at which time an INTP for example might ask people as a loose thought. After that it goes into the refining stage in which case an INTP doesn't bother much about input whereas an INTJ for example would start to open up the idea to the public.

For a person to actually function in a dynamic society you are able to use the opposite functions (for example Ne for a Ni user) with the cost of it being more draining to you and like a right-handed person using their left hand.


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## littleblackdress (Feb 24, 2013)

The thing is, these tests are designed to be given by an expert in the theory, with a human being behind them, noticing your mood as well as the stage of life that you are in (for example, preschoolers and toddlers often have a much more pronounced F - especially if they are Fe), but the older the adult, the more rounded they are likely to be. Also, someone who is actually trained in test giving will be able to look through the test to see your own biases. For example - you may have tested as an extrovert in high school but as an introvert now because of being aware of social biases. You may have WANTED to be an extrovert in high school and thus gave your answers a subtle shift in that direction at that point (in order to fit in), but now, because of pop culture's current fascination with introversion you may be subltly shifting your answers in that direction. This effect is fairly normal, and often unconscious.

I agree that posting a video would be helpful... Though, not perfectly so. I would look at some videos comparing those personalities.

I do find it interesting, though, that you automatically assume based on taking the same test 3 different times, rather than thinking that a) you may have changed between the tests, or b) that you may actually be fairly low on the S/N scale or on the F/T scale or c) a combination of both... you seem to think that it is the MBTI theory altogether which is wrong.... In your shoes, I would probably juggle both possibilities and continue to research... That might be some sort of S/N difference , or a Te/Ti difference... between you and I.

My honest suggestion is to learn about the various functions and then see how they may be functioning in you. Fe users who are I often mistype as introverts and Fi users who are E often mistype as introverts. Types with a tertiary Ni/Ne function often mistype in tests as N, when they are in fact S (because they can and do use this function in their day to day life)... and Se types sometimes mistype as Ni - because they are both forward thinking and Se is often up for adventure, including in conversation.

Anyway, just my two cents...


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## Arden (Feb 22, 2013)

Ellis Bell said:


> OK, so given that you just wrote all of this about the theory, why are you asking to be typed?


This statement reminds me of people who quote the bible out of context... the answer to the question is often a paragraph down... lol

As I stated in that same post " I may not have a large enough grasp on the concept. Which is why I'm asking the questions I am."


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## Sinthemoon (Jan 9, 2013)

@Acerbusvenator
Since your post is very great I'd only like to point something regarding the description of intuition (Ne vs Ni). I would avoid put in the "with people" part, it feeds a common confusion about extroversion meaning to be a "people's person". I'd rather say that Ne users like to put their understanding to the test, while Ni users don't really see the use of doing that without judgement playing a role.


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## Sinthemoon (Jan 9, 2013)

Arden said:


> This statement reminds me of people who quote the bible out of context... the answer to the question is often a paragraph down... lol
> 
> As I stated in that same post " I may not have a large enough grasp on the concept. Which is why I'm asking the questions I am."


I don't feel so good about the comparison between psychology theory and the wisdom of priests who lived 3000 years ago.


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## Psychopomp (Oct 3, 2012)

Arden said:


> Because I have taken the tests - various versions - and consistently gotten 3 different "types"
> 
> A friend of mine said that it was your "base" personality or who you would be had you not been influenced by learned behavior.


That is a great impromptu explanation... the more accurate explanation being that psychological type is a theory of cognition itself - or mental process/functions - called 'cognitive functions'. The idea of '16' types is actually a byproduct of the actual theory. The Jungian theory did not settle on or have any intention of settling on 16 types, but rather to delineate types of cognition and study their patterns and placement in the human populace. The results of this study determined that only 16 combinations, following a consistent algorithm, resulted. 

Moral of the story: The theory should be approached at it's core - and, if it proves consistent and/or reliable, the question of 16 types becomes moot. 

Is the theory insightful? Is it consistent? Can it improve relations and understanding between people? Can it help us accept our own cognitive peculiarities and those in others? 

Better questions, if you ask me.



Arden said:


> As to the various types there have been only two consistent answer "introvert" _ _ "perceiving"


The four letter rendering is an unfortunate and misleading shorthand. Translated into the actual Jungian theory, you just said that you are either an Fi or Ti dominant. I am inclined to agree with that assessment, and it fits with your 'three types'. You are definitely a 'Te' type, in my estimations, so Fi dominant is what seems more likely (to me).



Arden said:


> I will agree that I have always been the "perceiving" type rather than the judging type but I remember very distinctly taking this test in high school and being scored as an "extrovert"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Arden (Feb 22, 2013)

accidentally posted twice trying to edit


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## Arden (Feb 22, 2013)

0. Is there anything that may affect the way you answer the questions? For example, a stressful time, mental illness, medications, special circumstances? Other useful information includes sex, age, and current state of mind.

No, nothing out of the ordinary.
32, female, mood is ok

1. Click on this link:*Flickr: Explore!*Look at the random photo for about 30 seconds. Copy and paste it here, and write about your impression of it.

View attachment 63244


(for some reason the picture doesn't want to work so maybe this link will... Welcome to Flickr! )

At first glance this picture brought to mind a victorian appeal. Romantic... perhaps italian countryside.... I'm not terribly fond of picture itself though... really lean towards rich reds.. the petals look soft... the composition of the photo is fairly basic... its a pretty rose... hyrbid tea of some sort I imagine... i like how the outter petals are reminisent of cream... the texture of cream...


2. You are with a group of people in a car, heading to a different town to see your favourite band/artist/musician. Suddenly, the car breaks down for an unknown reason in the middle of nowhere. What are your initial thoughts? What are your outward reactions?

Well lets see.... most likely I'm not the one driving in this cenario.. part of my reaction would depend on if it where my car that broke down... assuming its not my car whoever is driving is probably freaking out... concerned about what's wrong with the car... I would be if it where mine... so initially I would probably help them investigate the problem... I'd probably do my best to keep the situation calm... if we couldn't figure out what was wrong then I would either suggest someone call for a tow or do so myself... Then while waiting I'd probably just chill out... maybe pop a squat on the hood... make chit chat if anyone was so inclined.... if not I'd just check out the world around me... 

3. You somehow make it to the concert. The driver wants to go to the afterparty that was announced (and assure you they won't drink so they can drive back later). How do you feel about this party? What do you do?

Well I imagine I would most likely be a wallflower.. find a nice quite spot to hang out if at all possible... if it was too loud and rowdy I would probably go sit outside... If someone approached me to chat I'd be cool with it... but either way would be fine

4. On the drive back, your friends are talking. A friend makes a claim that clashes with your current beliefs. What is your inward reaction? What do you outwardly say?

Depending on the topic or the forcefulness of the person talking my immediate reaction inwardly might be shock or anger... how I outwardly react would have more to do with the context... if it was personally hurtful or rude I'd probably say so... if it required me to defend someone I cared about I would react in defence.... however if it where theoretical... physophical in nature I would most likely ask them why they feel that way and discuss there reasoning... everyone is entitled to be think whatever they choose... I'm totally open to debate... but if its a personal situation.... or something abusive... I can't tolorate that and I won't.

5. What would you do if you actually saw/experienced something that clashes with your previous beliefs, experiences, and habits?

my personal belives, experiences and habbits are my own... but as before depending on the cercumstance I might say nothing or I might respond.... for example... if someone rented a room from me and I caught them doing drugs in my house I'd not hesitate to throw them out... if I saw someone on the street preaching about some wacky cult I might engage them in conversation just for curiosity sake but if they want to belive in flying ninja turtles from the planet zog that's kind of thier business. They arnt hurting anyone...that's thier belife. I don't have to agree with it...


6. What are some of your most important values? How did you come about determining them? How can they change?

I value life, liberty and the persuit of happiness. I belive in God, as I understand "him". I belive children are precious gifts. I belive in love. I belive everyone has unlimited potiential, but often choose to live in the realm of limitation. I belive in striveing to be the best person I can be. I belive failure is another way of saying I made a mistake to be learned from. Although all too often people take it on face value and stop trying. The only true fail in life is to give up on life. As long as you are still breathing there is somthing to be gained from living. How did I determine these belifes? A combination of observation, intuition and practical application. How can they change? I'm not sure that I want them changed.... perhaps if somthing convenced me otherwise? I really don't know... I've explored my belifes as they've developed so I think someone would be hard pressed to change them...


7. a) What about your personality most distinguishes you from everyone else? b) If you could change one thing about you personality, what would it be? Why?

What about my personality most distingishes me from everyone else? That's a rather broad statement. I don't know that it nessisarily distiguishes me but I tend to be a little awkward. Sometimes social cues kind of go over my head. I'm emotionally awkward in that I tend to disassociate when things get uncomfortable. Ranging from jokes at innapropreate times to shutting down and drawing a blank as to how to comminicate. I belive its largely learned because I feel things very deeply and often intensly. From the outside looking in people see me as aloof. They also tend to project ideas into who I am because they find it difficult to get a handle on me. Once I open up though I tend to be wide open but only with a select few I trust. I'm not sure I would want to change anything. I like myself for the most part. We all have moments of weakness that we might later regreat on some level but ultimately who I am is alright I guess.

8. How do you treat hunches or gut feelings? In what situations are they most often triggered?

I treat my hunches and gut feelings with the up most consideration. They are useually right. The only desisions I have ever come close to regreating almost always relate back to me ignoring my intuition about something. I have had dreams that tell me things. What people call "dejavu". Your common average this just doesn't feel right "feeling". Situations vary.



9. a) What activities energize you most? b) What activities drain you most? Why? 


I tend to be energized by things like riding in the car. No particular desitination... just going... because... Walking... looking at the beautiful world around me... listening to music... singing along... dancing around the kitchen while i clean or something... curling up on the couch and hanging out with my husband or having little nonsense chats with my daughter (she's 3). Having a nice chat with my grandma or mema on the phone... painting.... reading about my latest facination.. chatting with my best friend.... working on my aquarium... planting herbs or veggies.... setting in front of my fish tank watching them do what they do... talking about things i enjoy..

I tend to be drained by drama. The television background noise bugs me. Having to talk to people about boring things. Having someone call me at the last moment exspecting me to be ready to go do whatever. Big crouds with lots of people yammering on... unless I'm just observing or listening... sometimes thats funny... Pushy people... having someone tell me i have to do somthing rather than asking politely. I dont "have to" do anything and i wont with that kind of additude. People who complain without any intrest of a solution... events where I have to "look a certian part" or behave a certian way.... 

Why? I enjoy having things on my own terms I guess. I was the "take my ball and go home" kid pretty much from day one.

10. What do you repress about your outward behavior or internal thought process when around others? Why?

I repress a lot of my impulsiveness. When I was a teenager or young adult it didn't matter if I picked up and moved cross country or dyed my shaved head lepoard print. If I wanted to couch surf or stay up all night in some smokey club, who cares? But now I have children. I love them and I want to be a good mother. I want them to feel loved and secure. I want them to know they're important and cared about. Jumping up amd running off on a whim wouldn't exactly be considerate of them. I do still do fun things I have just had to learn to employe self control and patients. 

......~fin~


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## Arden (Feb 22, 2013)

master wolf asked me how would I be if my life had no stress. while the above test identifies me as INFP I read all 3 of the descriptions to decide what most resonated with me. While the INFP did hit home in certian aspects I find that I felt most at home with the ISFP. Reading from the view of "no stress" ISFP seemed to have no immediate contradictions. ENFP felt forign all together.


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## Arden (Feb 22, 2013)

I found this description of an INTJ and I liked it.

INTJs are strong individualists who seek new angles or novel ways of looking at things. They enjoy coming to new understandings. They tend to be insightful and mentally quick; however, this mental quickness may not always be outwardly apparent to others since they keep a great deal to themselves. They are very determined people who trust their vision of the possibilities, regardless of what others think. They may even be considered the most independent of all of the sixteen personality types. INTJs are at their best in quietly and firmly developing their ideas, theories, and principles.—Sandra Krebs Hirsch


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## Moonshine (Aug 2, 2012)

I am an INFP and my husband is an ISFP. While I was reading the questionnaire, I was really feeling that you are an ISFP. I can feel both the Fi and the Se, like in my husband.


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## Arden (Feb 22, 2013)

Moonshine said:


> I am an INFP and my husband is an ISFP. While I was reading the questionnaire, I was really feeling that you are an ISFP. I can feel both the Fi and the Se, like in my husband.


Thank you. I have been researching and learning and processing as I go. So far I have identified with Se and Fi so ISFP does make sense... As I feel I'm probably not an extrovert that leaves me with two possibilities..


ISFP or INTJ

I'm still trying to learn how one might determine the dominant function.

I want to feel certian of my type before I decide upon it... and the online "tests" are enormously misleading.

I find myself wondering how many people here are really properly typed the more I delve into the learning of all this.

but all that aside I very much appriciate the responce and insight.


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## littleblackdress (Feb 24, 2013)

Hi, sorry lost my message.

The gist: I don't see INTJ as an option for you... I know you identify, but it might be because of that Fi-Te similarity, albeit further down the scale for you, but being over 30, a normally developing person would have these more established and present in their lives. But, I really don't see Ni in your responses. If you led with Ni, it would really, really show through. Ne is a possibility, as is Se - for sure.

Something else against INTJ - you have a lot of spelling errors in your responses. I know, crappy detail, but, the thing is, most INTJs craft responses very carefully, so that they are precise and concise. My husband doesn't get why I don't write out my responses in Word, do spell check and grammar check, then paste them in... it just makes so much sense to him that such a "minor step" be done. Go in the INTJ forum - I bet dollars to doughnuts spelling errors will be very few and very far between. (Honestly, not a criticism - I don't particularly care about mine and often leave them, because I "realize" that getting the thought out matters more than the minor detail... but INTJs "realize" that the impact of what you say is lessened when people see an obvious error... and yes, I am generallizing here, but this sort of thing shows up a lot with that personality type...)

I would honestly suggest that you watch videos of the types - keeping in mind their ages and stages of life... were you more like that at that point? Because typically the 3rd and 4th functions come out more as people age. So, INTJs become less critical and INFPs become more critical. Older INTPs become tougher to spot, as that Fe starts to pick up steam... I find when I watch women of my type it really clicks - eerily so, actually.

I also agree that there are biases. People often type as they WANT TO BE typed. Hence there are a crazy amount of INFJs out there... everyone wants to be rare... not there are not really INFJs who are what they say they are... but it seems like everyone who comments on a MBTI video claims to be INFJ... I also think that people think that there is something wrong with being an "S" type... so, likely a lot of people who self type as N may not be... Keep a very open mind about this. If you keep feeling like you are an exception to the rule of your type, that is probably not your type. 

Some videos:

INTP women:
http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv% 3DhSlbLjWm76E&h=4AQHhqVyT
http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v%3 D6r8qKLYQTXk&h=4AQHhqVyT

INFP women


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## littleblackdress (Feb 24, 2013)

ISFP














Cheers, hope this helps!


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## Arden (Feb 22, 2013)

The second link for the INTP woman really hit home for me a lot. I tend to understand her saying about how she gets so focused in her own mind that she forgets day to day things like eating. I mean that wasn't her example but its mine. I often have to remind myself or make an effort to do daily nornal tasks because I get so focused on ideas that I loose time even.

the first link for the INTP woman didn't work.... I think I may go on youtube and look up some more...

the whole process of how this works is challenging to me. But I very much want to understand it...

I took a more comprehensive test (acctually paid for it) and while it classified me INFP my T/F and S/N came up really close like 47% to 53% or something like that. I am definately Introverted (74%) and Perciving (74%).

I read an explination on here where someone posted a picture of a water drop hanging from a stick and my only thought about it was to focus on the texture/ visual aspect. It was very striking to me. For this reason I Iidentified with the Se strongly as they described it. And the Fi seems rather consistant in my typology.

I think your compleatly onto somthing about my age playing a factor into the "balance" of my S/N and T/F.

The test I took also gave a percentage of brain hemisphear used. My left brain was 49% my right brain was 51%. 
I'm sure that factors in I'm just not compleatly sure how just yet.

incidentally I happen to be left handed.


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

OMG! NOOOOOOOO!!!!!
Instant No Button! Star Wars funnies FTW!
Not those stupid youtube videos about people who most of them just selected a type that they thought sounded nice! :shocked:

Really, I hate those more than I hate tests and davesuperpowers.


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Arden said:


> The test I took also gave a percentage of brain hemisphear used. My left brain was 49% my right brain was 51%.
> I'm sure that factors in I'm just not compleatly sure how just yet.
> 
> incidentally I happen to be left handed.


I scored 61% right brain hemisphere thingy 
I am right handed, yay.
Sadly then the right side of the brain controls the left if I am not mistaken. Also, then the brain isn't divided so neatly as right/left creative/logical.


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## Jabberbroccoli (Mar 19, 2011)

I read the questionaire and got ISFP, didn't see enough Ni to justify INTJ. Saw more Se than you'd think from an inferior Se type. Only read through the questionaire and noticed Ark said INTJ, so I'll come back to this when I'm at my computer.


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## Arden (Feb 22, 2013)

Frankly after all this I find myself reverting right back to my origional thought that I'm skeptical... at least in the idea that everyone falls into one type.

I often here critics say "oh most of you just picked whatever you thought was cool" ..that may be true.. especially considering how complex this seems to be... I also see critics of the tests, the videos, "dave super"whoever... Ok... but then how does one determine there type.... I mean the average person...

I mean its ok to be critical but if you choose to be there should at least be potential solutions laid out.

being critical simply for the sake of being critical is abit pointless and telling...

How do you propose I go about determing my type if none of these solutions are viable options


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## Arden (Feb 22, 2013)

Acerbusvenator said:


> I scored 61% right brain hemisphere thingy
> I am right handed, yay.
> Sadly then the right side of the brain controls the left if I am not mistaken. Also, then the brain isn't divided so neatly as right/left creative/logical.


Also you are correct that the brain is not quite so neat. Almost every persons brain is as unuiqe and individual as they are.


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Arden said:


> Frankly after all this I find myself reverting right back to my origional thought that I'm skeptical... at least in the idea that everyone falls into one type.
> 
> I often here critics say "oh most of you just picked whatever you thought was cool" ..that may be true.. especially considering how complex this seems to be... I also see critics of the tests, the videos, "dave super"whoever... Ok... but then how does one determine there type.... I mean the average person...
> 
> ...


MBTI is made complex by those who do not understand the difference between cause and effect. The cause being their functions and the effect being how they choose to display those functions.

Like I explained earlier then it is merely a system of subjective/introverted vs objective/extraverted that follows a pattern that very well fits how people prefer to take in information and deal with it.

If you want to find out your type you need to read up on the system itself or ask those who knows a lot about the system. Among the people typing then that is currently me, @NighTi and @Ellis Bell.
Personally I feel like retiring from typing people here. I know MBTI inside out and my knowledge is seldom appreciated but rather met with hostility and assumptions that my knowledge is merely arrogance.

I will however say that your skepticism and general attitude about MBTI is that of an NP. Specifically NTP, so I would make a guess that you are an INTP. That was at least my first reaction to you (I haven't really kept an eye on this thread after that). NPs however generally seem to be the people who have the largest problem with MBTI because there seems to be a natural assumption that accepting MBTI means that they are trapped in a box of how to act.

I would recommend this thread: personalitycafe.com/cognitive-functions/131140-inferior-function-thread.html
and this book: Really Me
Those 2 should help you find your type a lot better than any outside observer could.
I would say that's the hardest lesson for us people typing others; we simply don't know if we are going by assumptions or actual data or just a persona. I had problems even being typed by myself because I have so many and so strong personas.


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## Arden (Feb 22, 2013)

I don't think your being arrogant in the least and. appreciate your imput. I origionally typed as an INTP but I really wasn't certian I understood this well enough and a lot of people who I assumed where more knowledgable than me tended to disagree. 

I am trying to learn how the Se, Si, Fe, Fi work... and how that relates to the dom / aux / teir / infer... but there is simply so much conflicting information and conjecture (not directed at you just generally)

I am enjoying trying to learn about it though... phsycology has always slightly interested me... although one has to recognized that its all theortical... at least in my experience and should be taken with a grain of salt...

I was able to "type" my husband easily based in the simple MB application. He's definatly an ISTP and going over to there thread is like looking at a bunch of husband clones... lol

but for me I have to have a solid understanding of how this works before I will settle on a type.

If, as I understand it, the pourpose of typology is for practical real world application then it would seem rather stupid to attribute a type to yourself without being fully certian what that type is.

If I where to apply the wrong type then my thought process would forever be errored.

While some people are cool with that, I'm not. So here I am... lol


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## Jabberbroccoli (Mar 19, 2011)

Acerbusvenator said:


> MBTI is made complex by those who do not understand the difference between cause and effect. The cause being their functions and the effect being how they choose to display those functions.
> 
> Like I explained earlier then it is merely a system of subjective/introverted vs objective/extraverted that follows a pattern that very well fits how people prefer to take in information and deal with it.
> 
> ...


Fi has a similar response to systems intended to box them in. You have presented no information on the type itself, and just linking stuff for people new to the system isn't liable to help much, usually explaining the relevant concepts simply is a better idea. Debate is normal in typing threads. It's expected and encouraged. A good debate fleshes out the logic lacking in one person's argument. Don't be too confident in your typing abilities either, stating so just sounds arrogant, especially when you presented no solid argument to justify your assertion.

What I think is more likely is that OP uses Ni/Se perception functions. Not much information has been presented to justify the possibility of Ne/Si, and honestly the large majoirty of the information expressed in the questionnaire points to Ni/Se. Ni/Se means ISxP or INxJ. I'm not of the opinion that the OP is an INTJ. While there is a valid argument for the possibility, most of what I've seen from the OP points to a Se aux and not all too much legitimate Te demonstrated. I think ISxP is the best bet at this point, specifically ISFP. A Ne-aux train of thought really hasn't been demonstrated.


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Arden said:


> I don't think your being arrogant in the least and. appreciate your imput. I origionally typed as an INTP but I really wasn't certian I understood this well enough and a lot of people who I assumed where more knowledgable than me tended to disagree.
> 
> I am trying to learn how the Se, Si, Fe, Fi work... and how that relates to the dom / aux / teir / infer... but there is simply so much conflicting information and conjecture (not directed at you just generally)
> 
> ...


I know what you mean, lol.


Jabberbroccoli said:


> Fi has a similar response to systems intended to box them in. You have presented no information on the type itself, and just linking stuff for people new to the system isn't liable to help much, usually explaining the relevant concepts simply is a better idea. Debate is normal in typing threads. It's expected and encouraged. A good debate fleshes out the logic lacking in one person's argument. Don't be too confident in your typing abilities either, stating so just sounds arrogant, especially when you presented no solid argument to justify your assertion.
> 
> What I think is more likely is that OP uses Ni/Se perception functions. Not much information has been presented to justify the possibility of Ne/Si, and honestly the large majoirty of the information expressed in the questionnaire points to Ni/Se. Ni/Se means ISxP or INxJ. I'm not of the opinion that the OP is an INTJ. While there is a valid argument for the possibility, most of what I've seen from the OP points to a Se aux and not all too much legitimate Te demonstrated. I think ISxP is the best bet at this point, specifically ISFP. A Ne-aux train of thought really hasn't been demonstrated.


With all due respect. You were new to MBTI once as well and you are patronizing her ability to comprehend information. Also, the links I shared are directed at both people who are new to MBTI and those who know a lot.

I did not say that she is an NP, I said that she displayed the behavior of that I have observed to be common among them. Even if every type can do it for a different reason then NPs seem to dislike the idea that it puts them in a box more than other types. My attempt was neither much of an attempt to type her as it was pointing out a consistency.

I don't understand your idea of debate. It seems as if you assume that being good at debates makes you good at MBTI which is by itself a logical error. I know how much I know, it is not arrogant to know that you know something. Do you feel a need to prove that you know something?
I don't feel a need to prove anything because I know that I know MBTI. I don't need to make others feel small so that I can feel like I know what I am talking about, because that is the purpose of debates it these cases.
I am not a good debater, nor do I feel any need to debate because what I know, I know. If you don't want to know what I know then that is your choice and I will not force you.

I also told you that we can't completely type other people because we are not them, so to the opposite of what you stated then I am not confident in my ability to type other people because I know I can't be 100% sure that I am right since I am not them. I can however be confident that I understand MBTI, even if I might have a hard time spelling it out for people.

You can debate on, but I feel no need to take part of that ritual.


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## Jabberbroccoli (Mar 19, 2011)

Acerbusvenator said:


> I know what you mean, lol.
> 
> With all due respect. You were new to MBTI once as well and you are patronizing her ability to comprehend information. Also, the links I shared are directed at both people who are new to MBTI and those who know a lot.
> 
> ...


What I said about debate was not intended to accuse you of a lack of skill at debating, nor to flaunt mine. Nor is typing about showing who knows more about MBTI. I mentioned the debate bit because the OP's skepticism was being reinforced by people disagreeing in the thread. I was simply saying debate is a healthy part of reaching a typing decision.


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## Arden (Feb 22, 2013)

I don't have to be an expert on anything to see that was a class example of a personality clash... lol... It's cool guys. You both have welcome contributions I'm sure.

Lets all hug (if your a huggy people) or not... (if your not a huggy people) ..shake hands? We're cool right?


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## Arden (Feb 22, 2013)

So i PM I made the comment I felt Se and Fi where traits of mine. I was asked to explain and I said...


"Maybe I'm interperting the whole thing wrong but it says the Se will be emersed in the visual aspect of the picture. The picture is very striking to me and when I look at it I focus on the colors and texture. How it would feel if I could touch it. it effects me emotionally and from a sensory perspective. I can't relate to looking at it from how I would "use" it or any kind of metephoric life altering thought process. I simply enjoy it for what it is, how it makes me feel to look at it and wonder what it would be like to touch it. I can imagine how it would feel to touch it. I really, with that particular picture, don't move much beyond that. Why would I take it apart and do something diffrent with it. It's elegant.*Fi - because my desisions and ideas are value based and personal only to me. I may wish to know others feelings on the subject and I may take into account there feelings depending on how closely bonded we are but ultimately I make my own desisions and if socioty or others view points don't jive with my moral compass then so be it. Ultimately I have to do what's right for me."

now if you need a point of refrence the statement come from this thread I read earlier
.... 
http://personalitycafe.com/cognitive-functions/85534-functions-how-they-work.html

I am describing my reaction to the picture there.

Now the question that was posed to me was if that's it what else is there? More or less. I responded I needed to think on it. Which I do... but how do I know if Fi and Se are both dominant? I don't understand that...


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## Arden (Feb 22, 2013)

I have been reading up on the functions and part of my issue is that I identify strongly with both the Se and Ne.... how is that?


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## Arden (Feb 22, 2013)

Acerbusvenator said:


> Why do you have such problems with your emotions?
> 
> Have you ever considered being an ETJ? It would kinda make sense if you were one and thought you were an IFP... from what I've seen then ETJs tend to mistake their inferior Fi as being dominant from time to time.
> 
> Since I don't spend much time in this thread, what is this inferior Se that was found?


Well I can look into it. But wouldn't that require me to be extroverted?


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Arden said:


> Well I can look into it. But wouldn't that require me to be extroverted?


Many extraverts mistake themselves as introverts. Still, it would be nice if you answered my questions.


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## Arden (Feb 22, 2013)

Why do I have such problems with my emotions?

well if I knew that I probably wouldn't have....

I guess I've just always felt abit out of place in the world... Although I guess that's not nessisarily relevent to my emotional develpoment persay.

I was raised by two sets of grandparents. Somewhat simular to a joint custody arrangement only two families rather than seperate parents. I was and am loved a great deal. Aside from my mother being disfunctional I'd say most things where fine.

I had the enormous benifit and privledge of being exposed to a variety of types. My fathers father was self employed. Worked in the family store. He had been in the air force prior which is how he met my mema. She was a nurse to begin with but changed her work to pathology. Patient care was too difficult on her emotionally. They where mu weekend parents. I remember going with my papa (paternal grandfather) to the store or with my mema (paternal grandmother) to the hospital on weekends. That's if they had to work. Otherwise we just spent time together. Went on vacations. Normal stuff. My papa was very loving and attentive. He died when I was about 10 from cancer. My mema was more reserved and disiplinary when I was a child but she and I have a fantastic relationship now.

My grandfather (maternal) and grandmother (maternal) had we during the week. Also self employed / retired. My grandfather was reserved but chatty and very kind. He was the kind of person who could make friends with just about anyone. He was a retired mechanic but did odd jobs, landscaping, gardening, fishing, etc. My grandmother had a bachalors degree in art from UNCW and made commercial fishing nets for a living when she wasn't painting. She was to herself a lot and could be rather irrational and emotional about things. I think I identified most with my grandfather. Although friendships did and do not come so easy for me as they did for him. But we where very close. I'd say once I came into adulthood I'd even go so far as to say best friends.

My father got killed before I was born and my mother is unstable to say the least. I had mainly indirect involvement with her for the most part. She played really no hand in my upbringing but I was exposed to her. My half brother and half sister where not so fortunate as I. My brother went from home to home and was shuffled around the system. My sister being the "baby" was adopted rather readily by a family who moved away.

I'm not sure that any of this though gives any explination for my reserved nature. 

I'm not sure really how to explain it.

Like I said if I could understand the reasoning perhaps I could "fix" the issues. Or maybe not.

I am who I am after all. And I like who I am.

Hashing out my sorted past serves no perpose really. Everything I have experienced in life has led me to where I am. I love my life. I love my husband and my children. 

At times I do feel like my mind might better serve the world doing other things but then I try and set my ego aside. Because my children are more important and more far reaching that I will ever hope to be. Even if for no other reason than average life exspectency

My son Sebastian is amazing. He's smart, personable and has such ingenuity. My daughter Edana is a little fire. She's strong and willful and very astue. And she's only 3. I often say that the very personality traits that make for difficult children are the same that yeild gifted and productive adults. I see great things for my children. 

but I digress.... I'm not sure how to even begin to answer that question. Could you give me some more direct question?


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## Arden (Feb 22, 2013)

Acerbusvenator said:


> Many extraverts mistake themselves as introverts. Still, it would be nice if you answered my questions.


I was working on it....


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## Arden (Feb 22, 2013)

To answer your question about where the Se comes from. I researched abit the Fi, Fe, Se, Si and so on and narrowed down the traits I felt most correctly applied to me. Also, Arkigos and I discussed it at great length.


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Arden said:


> but I digress.... I'm not sure how to even begin to answer that question. Could you give me some more direct question?





> Also going back to your comment about your mom. The emotions. My emotions are cripplingly strong. When I am deeply moved by a situation I will have a physical reaction. Litteral heart ache. Like my chest hurts. Nausea. Joy radiates threw me like a beam. I can't contain my thoughts or feelings expressively. You will see it on my face. But when it comes to reaching out or talking about how I feel. Explaining my emotions. I feel paralized. I don't know how to articulate it. I sometimes try to explain but end up feeling like a bumbling idiot. I am not good with "emotions"


That kind of problem with emotions. It seems as if Fi is your Achilles heel rather than Se. An ITJ wouldn't be so "soft" when it comes to emotions.
When I for example am forced to talk about emotions I got a very small vocabulary, it is basically just "happy" or "sad". I am not good at making distinctions or even bothering with making distinctions between emotions. Fi for me is less about emotions because it is stronger than inferior (inferior feeling functions got problems seeing the difference between values and emotions). It is however so that if I talk about something I am passionate about then my voice becomes unstable and tears fill my eyes but that's about it (and I am just 20 years old so my Fi hasn't matured so much yet).

F as in feelings is not about emotions, but as in the rational reasoning of what is agreeable and what isn't, what is good and what is bad. For people with with inferior feeling functions, emotions tend to blend in with values and problems tend to erupt with emotions. ITPs for example got problems when people throw a lot of emotions at them, don't you @arkigos :tongue:

(Also, your picture reminds me of many ESTJs I've seen so that made me a bit biased.)


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## littleblackdress (Feb 24, 2013)

Acerbusvenator said:


> Fi for me is less about emotions because it is stronger than inferior (inferior feeling functions got problems seeing the difference between values and emotions). It is however so that if I talk about something I am passionate about then my voice becomes unstable and tears fill my eyes but that's about it (and I am just 20 years old so my Fi hasn't matured so much yet).


OFF TOPIC...

Interesting comment on the emotions. Do you know many tertiary Fes? Do you see Fe operating differently in ENTPs, for example?


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## Arden (Feb 22, 2013)

Well to point out from your own words you are just 20 years old and male.

I on the other hand am 32 and female. I think that would play some roll in the diffrence of communication.

Women regardless of "type" are biologically designed diffrently. Our brains are focused diffrently. Also, women typically have an excess of estrogen comparitive to men. Therefore from a purely biological standpoint women would be confronted with hormonal fluctuations more frequently.

Take the menstrual cycle for example. Every 28 days aproximately a woman goes threw an enormous fluctuation in hormones. Men acctually have a simular cycle but not so intrustsive or obvious. In this cycle for a woman her hormones crash on day one. The start of menstruation. As the days pass estrogen gradually increases peaking at aproximately day 14 when ovulation occurs. During the up swing the estrogen inparts feelings of happiness, confidence and sexual prowess. As the female seeks a sutible mate. One the LH surge occures progesterone begins to dominate in order to protect the corpus lutum. The progesterone in excess is what engages the moody "pms" behavior associated with women. All to have it all flatline again 28 days, give or take, later.

I use this as just one simple comparitive diffrence to directly relate a woman's uncontrolable perpensity to have to face emotional swings if you will regularly from the onset of puberty.

Take that into account with my more advance development on the standing of age alone and you have a considerable argument towards a female INTJ or otherwise having a more developled skill set when compaired to a young male.



in regard to the picture comment, which picture are you refering to?


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## littleblackdress (Feb 24, 2013)

Sorry, had to comment, as a fellow woman... (who is 35)... was it your intention to put up a massive barrier by talking about your menstrual cycle? 

Another point on women and emotions is that there is a pretty severe social penalty for women who are not feeling-competent.

However, I really, really found the comments that @_Acerbusvenator_ made on Fi and on how 4th place emotions impact the type very intriguing. I definitely experience my 3rd place Fe quite intensly... If ENTP is actually my type...


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

littleblackdress said:


> OFF TOPIC...
> 
> Interesting comment on the emotions. Do you know many tertiary Fes? Do you see Fe operating differently in ENTPs, for example?


I know a few, which type do you wish to compare to? INTJ?
I find that while I am in general quite passive about my internal emotional state and well, they seem to have a bit of a flow to their emotions in general. I haven't known an ETP so well that they've trusted me with their deeper secrets, but in a conversation with an ESTP I found out that he keeps up his cheerfulness to hide his deeper feelings because he seeks love, but only finds people who end up hurting him.
I think whereas my feelings sometimes bubble up, then theirs sink deeper into them.

I suppose you'd have to ask @arkigos because tertiary functions are like the inferior but without the Achilles heel part and they are more passive.
Fe is a bit foreign to me, especially in this case since I haven't had time to really analyze an ETP in depth.


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Arden said:


> Well to point out from your own words you are just 20 years old and male.
> 
> I on the other hand am 32 and female. I think that would play some roll in the diffrence of communication.
> 
> ...


It seems as if you dodged my question, your biology doesn't have to do with MBTI. I know a few female INTJs and if anything then they are more in touch with their Fi. I personally have believed that many of them were INFJs.
I already consider gender differences when I calculate the most likely type and truth is that it doesn't make a big change. I studied a female ESTP for example in person and she is quite much just like the male ESTPs except that she's a woman.

Biology has less impact on how you act than society when it comes to MBTI.


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## Arden (Feb 22, 2013)

littleblackdress said:


> Sorry, had to comment, as a fellow woman... (who is 35)... was it your intention to put up a massive barrier by talking about your menstrual cycle?
> 
> Another point on women and emotions is that there is a pretty severe social penalty for women who are not feeling-competent.
> 
> However, I really, really found the comments that @_Acerbusvenator_ made on Fi and on how 4th place emotions impact the type very intriguing. I definitely experience my 3rd place Fe quite intensly... If ENTP is actually my type...



I'm not sure what you mean by using it as a barrier. I used it because it seemed like the most logical and scientific means of explaining hormons and therefore the emotional reaction assosiated there to.

I agree with you about social constructs but for me personally they're less relevent because frankly I don't care about how socioty thinks I should behave as a woman. 

They say write what you know. I know more about anatomy and phsyiology than about sociology. So that's what I went with.


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## Arden (Feb 22, 2013)

Acerbusvenator said:


> It seems as if you dodged my question, your biology doesn't have to do with MBTI. I know a few female INTJs and if anything then they are more in touch with their Fi. I personally have believed that many of them were INFJs.
> I already consider gender differences when I calculate the most likely type and truth is that it doesn't make a big change. I studied a female ESTP for example in person and she is quite much just like the male ESTPs except that she's a woman.
> 
> Biology has less impact on how you act than society when it comes to MBTI.


But my biology does pertain to my physical and subsequent brain development which is directly related to personality


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Arden said:


> But my biology does pertain to my physical and subsequent brain development which is directly related to personality


Well, MBTI is about how you process information. MBTI is a part of your personality, it isn't your personality. Biology and MBTI is like biology and personal experiences (they are different, yet their effects all affect your personality).

It is however interesting how as soon as emotions was named you went with the least direct answer you could find. Normally people answer a question about emotions with how things make them feel but you instead pointed out what you should feel according to biology.


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## Arden (Feb 22, 2013)

I think personally my biology would play a much larger role in my brain development than just personal experience. I can compartmentalize personal experiences but my biology is definitive. It was determined at my point of conception.

In other words I can choose to change my mind but the brain I was born with is what it is. It is the vessel and the system to catalog my toughts and as much I would think would be geneticly predisposed to a certian arangment.


Could you elaborate on why you feel its interesting.

And also Mr. question dodgy person you still didn't answer which picture


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Arden said:


> I think personally my biology would play a much larger role in my brain development than just personal experience. I can compartmentalize personal experiences but my biology is definitive. It was determined at my point of conception.
> 
> In other words I can choose to change my mind but the brain I was born with is what it is. It is the vessel and the system to catalog my toughts and as much I would think would be geneticly predisposed to a certian arangment.


Your personal experiences can't really be changed, they are a part of you because they are in your memory which means that they have become a part of your brain which means that they are a part of your biology. :wink:



> Could you elaborate on why you feel its interesting.


It was a bit of a rhetorical comment since I was talking about inferior feeling.


> And also Mr. question dodgy person you still didn't answer which picture





Arden said:


> View attachment 63996


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## Arden (Feb 22, 2013)

Acerbusvenator said:


> Your personal experiences can't really be changed, they are a part of you because they are in your memory which means that they have become a part of your brain which means that they are a part of your biology. :wink:
> 
> 
> It was a bit of a rhetorical comment since I was talking about inferior feeling.


I disagree about them becoming part of my biology. Unless of course you're attempting to stretch the notion that they have been chemically imprinted and therefore endocrine in nature.

That argument could perhaps be made but then you have to also take into account memory retention.

I know that there are many experience I have had that I can not retrive from my memory despite someone else insisting that they happened.

If memories and subsequently experience do in fact become biological then retrival would be no more difficult than initiating a set of standards to envoke said memory.

Say for example you enact a set of cercumstances to evoke an emotion. Wither the person shows the emotion or not on some level it is there. Unless the person is somehow biologically challenged or blocked. However with memory there is a fairly consistent pattern of retention. Or lack there of. In order to imprint a memory a sequence has to be objectively followed or at the very least so substantial that the brain autonomically catalogs it in a simular fashion.

Memories are external information being processed inwards. Emotions are hormonal reaponces being processed outwardly.


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## Arden (Feb 22, 2013)

Also I have this picture....









This picture...









and this picture...










....how do they make you feel


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Arden said:


> I disagree about them becoming part of my biology. Unless of course you're attempting to stretch the notion that they have been chemically imprinted and therefore endocrine in nature.
> 
> That argument could perhaps be made but then you have to also take into account memory retention.
> 
> ...


I am no biology expert but something tells me that the reason you can't retrieve a memory at will has to do with _your_ brain's ability to discern a specific memory (especially without something sensorial to trigger the memory). I personally got a very good memory, however this is not the time or thread for discussion of memory and biology but of your personality type.


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Arden said:


> Also I have this picture....
> 
> View attachment 64100
> 
> ...


Nothing different really.


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## Arden (Feb 22, 2013)

Old Intern said:


> I've tested as an INTJ a few times. and INTP, and ENTP.
> I'm not picking on you about spelling, its just that it is like me to be more focused on my idea and spell even small words wrong. I care more about the big picture or the concept and don't want to get bogged down. I might know how to spell something but not see it misspelled (my inferior Si?).


Actually I never tested as an INTJ ....INTP, INFP, ISFP.... I did a comprehensive test and found that my scores where comming out 50/50 a lot by percent. I decided to look at the whole process from the functions rather than the tests.

I find the function aspect incredibly interesting. There is SO much to learn about them.

I'm not worried about the spelling comment. Its hard to type on this phone and my autocorrect is stupid. You're just lucky it hasn't changed "it's" to "jesus" yet or some such nonsense. lol ..... (actual example btw)


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## ManWithoutHats (Jun 2, 2012)

Arden said:


> I think you misunderstood what I said here and kind of ran with it. I know sometimes my explinations seen clear to me but upon later examination others miss what I'm saying.
> <snip>
> Does that make bettet sense at all?


Yes, I see what you meant- my mistake




arkigos said:


> To be honest with you, of all the ENTJs I know, I have never seen inferior Fi at all. Not a bit. I really don't know how it manifests... but I can say that ENTJs seem much less likely to show Fi at all - inferior or not. They can be pretty childish sometimes? Maybe that's it?


I'm not really sure how inferior Fi shows up either (partly why I barely mentioned it). I don't actually think I personally know any ENTJs but I might think that while dominant Fi people tend to identify with others and especially the misfortunate with empathy and sympathy; with inferior Fi the identification with others might be resisted and met with judgements of incompetence and weakness instead. They might have an over emphasis on projecting competence while rejecting their internal values, leading to occasional emotional outbursts or childishness. I have somewhat of a habit of relating types to their famous examples: in this case Rush Limbaugh, Margaret Thatcher or, at an extreme, Joseph Stalin.
OP sorry to drag the thread further off topic but I couldn't help getting back to this


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

ManWithoutHats said:


> There's really no need for all this hostility. The manner of your debating here has continually taken on an antagonistic tone towards everyone who disagrees with you and it has been generally distracting and counterproductive. I'm sorry If you feel that your insight is not being appreciated but perhaps you should just let that be and devote your time to something more productive than attacking the character, motives and methods of everyone who stands by a different opinion. I'm not trying to pick a side although its probably rather clear who I identify with; I just feel like this undercurrent of irrelevant conflict is polluting this thread.


If it would help that we all just sat and agreed on whatever was first said or not speak at all; many would end up mistyped, right?
My arguing has mostly been trying to test the waters and seeing where the different ideas fall apart (or where they don't), that is the more scientific way to approach a theory, right?



Oxford Dictionary said:


> scientific method
> Definition of scientific method
> noun
> 
> ...


The hostility is merely a defensive reaction to how people try to avoid being wrong or merely answering in a very dodgy/imprecise way. Tho I do try to limit it to only being a reaction of equal hostility.



> To every action there is always an equal and opposite reaction: or the forces of two bodies on each other are always equal and are directed in opposite directions.


The above is what I often go about in my reasoning and when I enter a more hostile argument.
Unless one of the sides is obvious and can be "proven", equal skepticism should remain to all possibilities until one has prevailed.
The unwillingness to follow this caused friction and I apologize for the hostility caused in my frustration over how only one side seemed to be heard.

Also, I apologize for the arguments that grew out of this tone of hostility. 
You should however know that as soon as I apologize, one of the people arguing will soon use this as their advantage as it always is when I do back down. That is why I don't like backing down because if I do, I will get stabbed in the back because the other person had to say the last word and often the last word is not one of apology.


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## HighClassSavage (Nov 29, 2012)

I haven't read this thread yet in its entirety but based on the questionnaire and a few of the posts, my bet would be ISFP. Considering the age of the OP, tertiary Ni is most likely being developed. Considering a few of the responses and the shit storm that this thread has become, I'm tempted to say that perhaps the OP is resisting Ni? I don't know about that, that's just the gut feeling I'm getting. 



Arden said:


> Really? You're going to take that personally?
> 
> I could have got miffy about you constantly trying to say my points where dodgey and irrelivent. Just because you don't understand something doesn't make it irrelevent.
> 
> ...


Hahahaha! Wow, your response is extremely similar to one of my responses in my own typing thread. In fact, this thread all together is rather reminiscent. However, I find it interesting that it seems that your reasoning for said response is the exact opposite of my own. To me, it appears that Fi takes precedence over Te.

EDIT: There's something else I wanted to point out. What I think people fail to realize is that people seem to only attribute understanding the logical principles underlying any given system (in this case MBTI) as strictly being Ti (if it is the primary priority). On the surface, this may be true, but I think it is more accurate to say that this is true of any Ji Dom. Only the reasoning is different. A Ti Dom would probably want to understand the underlying logical principles of a system in order to integrate those principles into their own personalized logical system. An Fi Dom would probably want to understand the underlying logical principles in order to integrate those principles into their own personalized value system (i.e. Ti: These principles coincide with my logic, therefore they are true Fi - These principles coincide with my values, therefore they are right)


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## Arden (Feb 22, 2013)

Acerbusvenator said:


> If it would help that we all just sat and agreed on whatever was first said or not speak at all; many would end up mistyped, right?
> My arguing has mostly been trying to test the waters and seeing where the different ideas fall apart (or where they don't), that is the more scientific way to approach a theory, right?
> 
> 
> ...


I appreciate and respect this responce. 

I want to also be 100% clear that I am in no way being condesending or any way ireverent in that.

A lot of people have commented here that my "tone" appears snarky in some instances. In regards to past comments I was useally joking. Like the ISTP one for example.

Which by the way I have no issues with ISTP's. I'm fairly sure I'm married to one. 

Thank You


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## Arden (Feb 22, 2013)

I have an idea. 

Everyone seems focused on arguing the Fi and Se. Rather than argue the way things have been proceeding could each of you define your interpertation of each function?

It would be helpful in two folds.

One giving me a better idea of the functions, as you see them. Two opening the table for discussion about how each of you view each function.

It will build the groundwork for comparision and contrast.

To be clear I don't simple mean the Fi and Se but rather all the functions. 

Part of my reason for asking this is because as I reaearch I find a large number of inconsistancy in definitions and explinations that often sound as if the author barely grasps the ideas themselves.


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## HighClassSavage (Nov 29, 2012)

Arden said:


> I have an idea.
> 
> Everyone seems focused on arguing the Fi and Se. Rather than argue the way things have been proceeding could each of you define your interpertation of each function?
> 
> ...


An excellent idea, one that I actually cannot quite accomplish. However, I wanted to instead provide you with my analysis of your questionnaire. 



Arden said:


> 0. Is there anything that may affect the way you answer the questions? For example, a stressful time, mental illness, medications, special circumstances? Other useful information includes sex, age, and current state of mind.
> 
> No, nothing out of the ordinary.
> 32, female, mood is ok
> ...


I started to half-ass my explanations after a while because I thought that, given my previous responses, going further in depth was pointless. In my eyes, you are quite clearly an ISFP.


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## Arden (Feb 22, 2013)

Ok. So you gathered Fi and Se but what about the Ti vs Te and Ni vs Ne?

I had been fairly convenced with INTJ vs ISFP based upon the assumption of Ni and Te in conjuncture with Fi and Se..

What I mean is that when I went looking for the solution after the test seemed obviously flawed I sought a combination of dominant functions to narrow the options down. Fi and Se alone yeild a wider spectrum of options.


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## Arden (Feb 22, 2013)

Also, at least from what I've read in the ISFP forum, I really don't identify with them.


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## HighClassSavage (Nov 29, 2012)

Arden said:


> Ok. So you gathered Fi and Se but what about the Ti vs Te and Ni vs Ne?
> 
> I had been fairly convenced with INTJ vs ISFP based upon the assumption of Ni and Te in conjuncture with Fi and Se..
> 
> *What I mean is that when I went looking for the solution after the test seemed obviously flawed I sought a combination of dominant functions to narrow the options down. Fi and Se alone yeild a wider spectrum of options.*


Based on your answers to your questionnaire, INTJ seems highly unlikely. Ni & Te don't seem to be very apparent in your responses, at least not as much as Fi & Se. Nowhere near at all in my opinion.
*
What exactly do you think this implies (response to your bolded statement)? 
*
EDIT: Another thing. Yes, the tests are rather flawed, but I pose that it is as much a flaw in the tests as well as our own perception of the questions asked.



Arden said:


> Also, at least from what I've read in the ISFP forum, I really don't identify with them.


It is to my understanding that the majority of the users of this forum range between the ages of 18-30, with most probably being in their 20's. Not sure if that is an accurate statistic, but my point is, perhaps you do not identify with them because of a difference in age? In any case, I'm not quite sure if this is a sufficient reason to discount the possibility of being an ISFP. Do you actually relate a lot to INTJ or simply more so to INTJ than ISFP?


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## KnottyArtist (Feb 12, 2013)

If you all haven't noticed the types that have responded are INTJ and INTP types who actually think this is a worthy subject to dive into. AND if you all haven't noticed the *HUGE LONG WINDED* well researched (might as well be a book) posts from Arden than you would ALL realize she could NEVER be an isfp. ISFP doesn't have the motivation to dissect a subject as much as Arden and the rest of the posters have. 

I talk to Arden on a daily bases going on two years now and she is absolutely NOT an ISFP. I fell in love with an ISFP and if you knew how hard and drawn out of a process that was and how much pushing and prodding I had to do to get him talking you'd never consider Arden an ISFP. It is not hard to get her talking and expressing herself and for her to dazzle you with her research. Only another INTJ or INTP or INFJ could keep up with this lady and you all have beautifully. As an ENTP I lost interest 15 pages ago.

You can function this or function that or say her OP is deflecting her NI or whatever but the fact she is still in the game, arguing with you, and asserting she is right with an openness to accept personal errors is a GREAT tip off she could never be an ISFP. ISFPs take offense deeply to criticism. One of those in here wouldn't last and really have no interest to.


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## HighClassSavage (Nov 29, 2012)

KnottyArtist said:


> If you all haven't noticed the types that have responded are INTJ and INTP types who actually think this is a worthy subject to dive into. AND if you all haven't noticed the *HUGE LONG WINDED* well researched (might as well be a book) posts from Arden than you would ALL realize she could NEVER be an isfp. ISFP doesn't have the motivation to dissect a subject as much as Arden and the rest of the posters have.
> 
> I talk to Arden on a daily bases going on two years now and she is absolutely NOT an ISFP. I fell in love with an ISFP and if you knew how hard and drawn out of a process that was and how much pushing and prodding I had to do to get him talking you'd never consider Arden an ISFP. It is not hard to get her talking and expressing herself and for her to dazzle you with her research. Only another INTJ or INTP or INFJ could keep up with this lady and you all have beautifully. As an ENTP I lost interest 15 pages ago.
> 
> You can function this or function that or say her OP is deflecting her NI or whatever but the fact she is still in the game, arguing with you, *and asserting she is right* with an openness to accept personal errors is a GREAT tip off she could never be an ISFP. ISFPs take offense deeply to criticism. One of those in here wouldn't last and really have no interest to.


Right about what? As far as I'm aware, she hasn't yet provided any definitive answers. You are also being largely stereotypical and taking those stereotypes into account, I would say you are quite right. However, stereotypes only hold minimal value in assessing what cognitive functions an individual utilizes and their order. How about actually being constructive and perhaps, I don't know, if you have been talking to her on a daily basis for two years, providing an answer to what personality type you believe her to be? Instead of pointlessly defending her as if we are criticizing her and not trying to help her. Instead of saying "SHE IS NOT AN ISFP, I TALK TO HER ALL THE TIME" how about, "I talk to her all the time, she is not an ISFP for X, Y, Z, I think she may be XXXX for A, B, C". Only by not using stereotypes. You're not helping.


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## Arden (Feb 22, 2013)

TheLaughingMan said:


> Based on your answers to your questionnaire, INTJ seems highly unlikely. Ni & Te don't seem to be very apparent in your responses, at least not as much as Fi & Se. Nowhere near at all in my opinion.
> *
> What exactly do you think this implies (response to your bolded statement)?
> *
> ...


I won't discount that age does play a role. It plays a roll where all types are concerned. In regards to how I relate to each I'll explain it this way
When I first started looking into this my "tests" yeilded all over the place. INTP, INFP, ISFP seemed to come up a lot.

The INFP I decided I didn't relate to because I was not a "humanitarian". The ISFP I kind of "related to" because I like art / music / etc.

The obvious problem with that was that I was taking the types on "face value" and had not yet investigated.

There seemed to be a flaw and I had a huge number of questions I had to have answered.

Fast forward to today. I still have a lot of questions but a better grasp on the functions. 

I keep trying to remove myself from the stereotypes and rather seek interaction and learn from several angles.

Why do I not identify with the ISFP's? They seem not just interested but almost pathologically obsessed with "art" or something in that vein. They also seen very emotional / needy / dramatic. Short of maybe being a prepubesent girl with the "silly giggles" I can't say I've ever been like that. And even still I can 100% blame the initial firing of my LH for making that nonsense happen.

I'm not trying to be hurtful or rude to these obviously gentel souls but even at thier age... Well let me put it like this... Even in HS when some girl "friend" of mine would call me up complaining about a boy I'd first try to solve there issue and if that didnt work the conversation would generally end up somewhere along the lines of me saying, "Your how old? This is not life and death. If you want to be together be, if you don't you don't. If he's all that bad leave...... " etc etc ...I'm kind of leaving out the bits about sex and all that but I think you get the picture.

I do acctually identify on many levels with the INTJ. With the exeption of the occassional youtube video where the person is obvioisly "trying" to be dry.... 

Its like when Acer was getting all butthurt I got that. The diffrence is I kept my composure and walked away from a lot of what bugged me to get my act together a little bit. 

And no that is absolutly not a jab at him. He's cool with me as far as I'm concerned. 

I'm not trying to argue for INTJ nessisarily. Although I am leaning towards it.

I'm open to other possibilities which is why I asked for the other functions.

I like to see this threw and exhaust the potoental options. If I'm wrong, show me I'm wrong. Its not intended to be argumentitive so much as a healthy debate between minds.


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## Psychopomp (Oct 3, 2012)

@ManWithoutHats - I looked at your avatar (which I've never noticed before) for a very long moment and thought 'oh, hank hill with a mustache... how quaint' .... and slowly said, out loud and to an empty room, "wait... is that-? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA**formanyminutes**HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!"

Truly, today, God is dead. What you have done is an abomination. 
@TheLaughingMan - Where there is trouble, The Laughing Man follows. It is known.
@Acerbusvenator - E tu Brute? Ah, crap, I am sorry that the passive voice was not used in my latin phrase. That is to say, specifically, that the latin phrase above did not utilize it. Perhaps that was unclear. I meant to say that it was felt that a feeling may have occurred about malevolence having taken place, and a directing of it was perceived to have been observed in the original case. It was realized only later that a misunderstanding may have grown from a statement that was perceived as rude but that was not about a capability but a recounting of a feeling that was expressed. The former was not the intention. 

No, no, passive voice is far too ambiguous in this situation. How can you tell what I am even saying? I could be talking about you, me, both of us? Neither? Or just the situation itself with no specific actors at all. Inference should not need to be relied on.

I'll not mince words: I realized quite a bit after the fact that you may have thought that I said you couldn't function as a typer... that isn't what I meant! I thought that YOU had said 'I can't function as a typer because of x, y, z'. My post related that, inappropriately, to a thought I had about Ni. I just want to make sure that you don't think *I* thought (or intentionally stated) that you can't function as a typer. Far from it, in fact. However, if you did understand that your abilities as a typer were not what I was talking about at all, then please disregard this initially very ambiguous non-explanation. Ambiguity, I am sure you can agree, can make meaningless statements seem quite profound... or be otherwise misleading. Also, as a final word regarding the confusion that may come to be experienced as a result of this, I apologize. 
@Arden - what have we done to your poor thread?


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

arkigos said:


> @_TheLaughingMan_ - Where there is trouble, The Laughing Man follows. It is known.


Checked out his analysis of her questionnaire and I get where he is coming from. Might analyze it myself when I have time. I see more possibility for INFP than ISFP (if comparing those) however based on that questionnaire, but as we both know then questionnaires have a tendency to be more based on the person's current state of mind than what they really are like.

Would also explain why I am just about the only one who thought she was dodging my questions if she uses Ne.


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## Arden (Feb 22, 2013)

arkigos said:


> @ManWithoutHats - I looked at your avatar (which I've never noticed before) for a very long moment and thought 'oh, hank hill with a mustache... how quaint' .... and slowly said, out loud and to an empty room, "wait... is that-? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA**formanyminutes**HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!"
> 
> Truly, today, God is dead. What you have done is an abomination.
> @TheLaughingMan - Where there is trouble, The Laughing Man follows. It is known.
> ...


Up until this very moment I have grasped everything you said. A lot of the above felt like I was largely being left out of some inside joke... lol

Part of me says I should go meditate on it and try to get with the picture. Another part of me thinks, was it even ment for me? 

About my thread, its cool. Just go with it. I'm sure we'll end up somewhere eventually.. maybe? LOL

Its kind of hard to keep everyone on point so we'll see.


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## littleblackdress (Feb 24, 2013)

There may be a simple explanation here - the fact that you suffer from a chronic illness? Being married, being young, while chronically ill with children does change a person - sometimes in fundamental ways. Could it be that your life experiences have you not identifying with anything - simply because the profiles assume a normative trajectory, AND the people in any forum are unlikely to have dealt with what you have dealt with... 

OR, another thought, is there a personality type that generally tends to have difficulty with not being unique - likes to self identify as outside the box (not an insult, just a personality trait that feels personal experience acutely... thus wouldn't SELF identiy with other peoples personal experiences - even if they feel their personal experience equally acutely...) That would actually go with your obvious Fi...

Another idea is a little more out there (feel free to completely chuck it)... but I wonder about it... @_Arden_ what is the purpose for you coming here? Are you trying to find community? Because if you cannot find your type would that stop you from participating (beyond this thread)? Could not being typed be a way to put boundaries in place for you?

Finally, I wanted to comment on you saying that you know you are an introvert because you have to retreat and process things. That isn't introverted, actually. My type (ENTP) as well as ENFPs, ESFPs and ESTPs have to retreat to process as well. Retreating to process is a function of the introverted processing functions in either first OR second place. Introverted is more about recovery than processing. Right now, I do not venture out much, because I am processing having a new baby. This retreating to process had me confused for a long time, however, I realize I am an extravert.

Anyway - a random jumble of ideas, I know - but, think about if any of those could be influencing you... maybe you do not WANT to settle on a type for some reason. Or, maybe you are a type that is particularly difficult to type... ExxPs can sometimes give difficulty... And, a comment on your friend saying that we are not typing you N enough because you have maintained interest in this thread... Honestly, there are a variety of ISFPs out there with staying power just like other types... your friend as an ENTP didn't have staying power for this thread, but here I am... an ENTP. I wonder if staying power is more an enneagram issue (but that is something I know very little about) Check out this ESTP

EJArendee's channel - YouTube

Not the type you are being accused of, but still, SP-types do get into things in depth - including things like Meyers Briggs. However, sometimes the things that are gotten into in depth can be shoes, fashion and makeup, cars... I find, however, SPs do tend to really get into topics, and the ones who get into less than easily found topics are harder to "intuitively" type... This is the value of typing by the functions... it removes the surface crap and looks under the hood....


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## HighClassSavage (Nov 29, 2012)

arkigos said:


> @_TheLaughingMan_ - Where there is trouble, The Laughing Man follows. It is known.


Now, I debated whether or not I should even bother responding to this statement, for I do not want to further derail this thread. However, you slap me in the face and turn your back on me, I would be a fool not to reciprocate. As far as I'm aware, I have not caused nor engaged in any trouble outside my own typing threads, two about myself and one bogus thread that was created for ulterior motives that I could gladly share and explain. Yes, I understand how I may be viewed as a pariah to the members of this forum, however, in so far as this thread goes, I have been on topic. Aside from my comment to @KnottyArtist, I have not stirred nor participated in any trouble. Besides, yes, call me a bully, the truth is the truth, her post was not constructive in the least. I acknowledge the value of an outside source who "knows" the OP personally, but it is hard to take her words at face value when she does not support them using credible reasons, by which I mean, her use of stereotypes. Not to mention your statement is rather hypocritical, this thread could easily be called @arkigos vs @Acerbusvenator: Battle of the Intellects for the Women who is Neither Their Types. Perhaps @Acerbusvenator may have been the initial aggressor, even so, you continued in the game of cat-calling, for which you are equally as guilty as he is. Let bygones be bygones however, I do not wish to continue any pointless conflict that only serves as a hindrance to the OP and a detriment to our character. This is not politics.

Now then, let's get things back on track. There are a few questions that I'd like to ask you, OP (@Arden). 

What is the reason for the constant use of ellipses in your questionnaire? 

What makes you think of the texture of the cream in the picture? Why do you take notice to it?

Why is it so important to you whether or not it is your car that breaks down? What do you usually notice or think of when you "check the world around you"?

Why do you seek to remove yourself from a loud and rowdy environment?

What makes you focus on the topic or the forcefulness of the person (especially the latter) speaking that determines how you react?

That should be enough questions for now. After reading this thread in its entirety, I can see INTJ as a possibility. Nothing definitive however.


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

@Arden, I just felt like I needed to point out the function siblings

*INTJ*, *ENTJ*, *ISFP*, ESFP - Ni Te Fi Se
*INTP*, *ENTP*, ISFJ, ESFJ - Ti Ne Si Fe

INFJ, ENFJ, *ISTP*, ESTP - Ni Fe Ti Se
*INFP*, ENFP, ISTJ, ESTJ - Fi Ne Si Te

They all share the same preferred functions, but in different orders.

I marked every type that has been considered in bold and dark blue, I might have missed one or taken one that hasn't been considered but so far we can see a pattern and I love patterns.

Oh, if I missed one I will try to edit this and recalculate.

Amount of time each function has reoccured in the suspected types:
4 x Ni
4 x Te
4 x Fi
4 x Se

3 x Ne
3 X Ti
3 X Fe
3 X Si

Maybe this doesn't mean much, but yea...


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## Psychopomp (Oct 3, 2012)

TheLaughingMan said:


> Now, I debated whether or not I should even bother responding to this statement, for I do not want to further derail this thread. However, you slap me in the face and turn your back on me, I would be a fool not to reciprocate. As far as I'm aware, I have not caused nor engaged in any trouble outside my own typing threads, two about myself and one bogus thread that was created for ulterior motives that I could gladly share and explain. Yes, I understand how I may be viewed as a pariah to the members of this forum, however, in so far as this thread goes, I have been on topic. Aside from my comment to @_KnottyArtist_, I have not stirred nor participated in any trouble. Besides, yes, call me a bully, the truth is the truth, her post was not constructive in the least. I acknowledge the value of an outside source who "knows" the OP personally, but it is hard to take her words at face value when she does not support them using credible reasons, by which I mean, her use of stereotypes. Not to mention your statement is rather hypocritical, this thread could easily be called @_arkigos_ vs @_Acerbusvenator_: Battle of the Intellects for the Women who is Neither Their Types. Perhaps @_Acerbusvenator_ may have been the initial aggressor, even so, you continued in the game of cat-calling, for which you are equally as guilty as he is. Let bygones be bygones however, I do not wish to continue any pointless conflict that only serves as a hindrance to the OP and a detriment to our character. This is not politics.
> 
> Now then, let's get things back on track. There are a few questions that I'd like to ask you, OP (@Arden).
> 
> ...


OH NO! no non noonononn non nonnon nono no!! Gah!! 

I was joking! It was a friendly .... friendly thing! I was glad you showed up on the thread! You said something like:



> In fact, this thread all together is rather reminiscent.


 and talked about how this thread was a 'shitstorm'... and I imagined a storm... and this ethereal version of your avatar 'chasing the whirlwind' from your post to this..... I was welcoming you, acknowledging you, saying 'hi' and joking around. Aren't we friends? Aren't we friendly? Have I been rude to you? Am I a rude person? Is this something I do?

I really like you TheLaughingMan and think that you have been an excellent addition to this and every other post you've been on. What in the world gave you an impression otherwise? 'It is known' is a freaking Game of Thrones reference. Every single thing I said in my last post was a complete joke. HANK HILL IS NIETZCHE for hells sake. 

I am sorry but I have to say that in my entire life I have never even THOUGHT such negative things about people. Never. I like people. I like @_Acerbusvenator_. I try to joke with him and the very worst thing I said to him was, essentially, "You said that people are frustrating you and making it so you can't function as a typer (you've thought of leaving) and I think this perspective is 1) unhealthy and 2) Ni reading patterns into behavior - seeing it as willful and even malevolent." I was so stupid to say it like I did. I regretted it immediately and don't know how to make it right. I'd do anything.

I realized when I reread it that it sounded like I was saying that Acerbus couldn't function as a typer. I THINK HE IS A FABULOUS TYPER!!!! I totaly value his input and often defer to it. He doesn't see that and sees me as antagonistic and I don't freaking know why! Can't I disagree with something? Can't I genuinely think that someone is a type and push that angle? Is that malevolent?

Fe inferior explosion in 3, 2, 1.....

I apologize, honestly, profusely, wholeheartedly, for assuming f***ing friendliness would be interpreted from my words. I feel friendliness and affection for honestly? f***ing everyone. I am a love train. I care. I worry about people and want to see the best for them. I LIKE you people. When I think 'LaughingMan' I think 'I love that guy.. he was nice to me and super gracious as I fumbled through his typing thread'. That's it. The end of my thoughts for you. I am so far from being the guy who is like, 'stupid laughing guy screwing everything up'. I am just making that up because thoughts like that are 100% alien to me. My only extraverted functions Ne and Fe..... Ne says 'look an abstract butterfly' and Fe says 'oh man I wish I could hug people through the internet, I worry about them'. Other than that, I am making some damn system in the void of my brain. That's it!!!! That is me entirely. The End. You want to find malevolence in me? Good f***ing luck. I don't possess it. I say stupid things because I don't understand how it might be interpreted. I can't control that and it freaks me out so bad. I am sorry.

I am more than happy to be told I am being an ass or that I said something out of line. I will freak out, worry and fret, apologize and try to change. Every time. I am a f***ing carebear. I love you guys. I am sorry.

EDIT: Though, in all honesty if you say I have been going tit for tat with Acerbus, I'll reread and call myself out. I am happy to be corrected. I don't want to be that guy.


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## Arden (Feb 22, 2013)

By her explination, in order of how she explains them, I identify more with Fi than Fe, Te more than Ti, Se more than Si and Ni more than Ne.

To expound on this from my own understandings I would order my strengths as follows.

Ni would probably be first. I tend to get. "feelings" or abstract conceptions or an idea first.
Te because I then attempt to understand these impressions rationally.
Fi because I then weigh my "understanding" aginst my moral / personal code.
Se because after all this I then delve into my outward senses to compair and contrast.

Ne was once explined to me as ones ability to, for example, have an intuition about someone's motives based on observation. While this function has improved for me threw life experiences it is absolutly not a universal strong point for me. It has only been in recent years that I've been able toa little more accurately wade threw someone's "BS".

Ti as I understand it requires a more scientific method or mathmatical approch. While I apprciate the scientific method for what it is I hate math. I think that the porcess should not matter so much as long as the outcome is correct.

Fe I can access but it is not my natural responce. I have to make a concerted effort to "process" the feelings of others. With people I'm not close to I'm not especially concerned with there feelings. At least not beyond tne need for social peace and structure. Those I am close to I do care about there feelings but tend to still objectively assess them to help me identify / understand / empathise. And even still I sometimes struggle with empathy in the true sense or the "universal" sense.

Si I'm not sure I fully understand. The guy in the prior video compaired it to having a sense of estetics or order. I'm not sure I agree with that but as I stated I don't fully grasp Si. If my vauge understanding is correct then perhaps I do use Si. I have an appriciation for symetry. Having a particular order to my enviroment is somewhat important to me. But compaired to when I was younger this is a developed trait.

I'll give an example.

My cuboard is not organized the way I would like it to be right now. My boys put the groceries away when I came home the other day because I was not feeling well. Everytime I look at it it annoys me. I want it to be ordered to my standards for both visual appeal but more so finctionality. In othet words it looks disorganized and it is disorganized and that bugs me.

But when I was younger it wouldn't have bothered me. So I'm inclined to belive its a developed trait more so than a natural one.


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## Arden (Feb 22, 2013)

To expand on what I said about Te. When I said I use the Te to understand my Ni rationally I'm not sure that was the correct useage of the word rational. I work outwardly to pin down my intuition in such a manner that is rational to me. It may not nessisarily be rational in the emperical sense. If fact quiet often it isnt. I try to pull from things and organize them in a way that others can grasp and understand my perseption but universally I tend to "fail". There are some people who will not now or ever grasp my "logic" and I'm ok with that as long as I understand.

Typically allowing the process to unfold over time will in and of itself be enough to get people to understand.


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## Old Intern (Nov 20, 2012)

I didn't get anything in particular from the video but it would make sense that you could be ISTJ. From the outside, ENTP can look like ISTJ even though they are outrageously different, speaking from long-term dating thing with ISTJ (who happens not to be a neat freak at all). One parallel is the F function being tertiary and T being right in front of it. What looks like being someone with a mind of their own, but also with a sense of context - comes from exactly opposite directions to arrive at what is observable on the surface (Ti and Fi looking similar to outside observation).

The question would be, what is it that you are perceiving as Ni? My experience here (PerC) and in life, is leading me to believe that the Te-Fi combination has a strong ego need to be wise or right, as opposed to being foolish, this is not simply an INTJ thing.
The Ti-Fe combination cannot abide doing what does not make sense to them, but the idea of wise or foolish is more of a game.

Do I sense just a tiny passive aggressive tendency? Because I think that is an Fi thing; the idea that right will win in the end.


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## Arden (Feb 22, 2013)

little passive agressive? Can be. A little agressive agressive? Can be that too, when the mood strikes

Do I belive right will win in the end? Absolutly. On this topic and pretty much everywhere else.


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## Arden (Feb 22, 2013)

how do I convert html to this? I wanted to post my SLOAN test results but I cant figure out how


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## Arden (Feb 22, 2013)

Nevermind I'll just copy and paste. Besides the over all descriptions are depressing anyway.

Big Five Test Results

Extroversion||||||||||||44%
Orderliness||||||||||||||||62%
Emotional Stability||||||||||||50%
Accommodation||||||||||32%
Inquisitiveness||||||||||||50%

The Big Five is currently the most accepted personality model in the scientific community. The Big Five emerged from the work of multiple independent scientists/researchers starting in the 1950s who using different techniques obtained similar results. Those results were that there are five distinct personality traits/dimensions. Here are your results on each dimension:

Extroversion*results were moderately low which suggests you are reclusive, quiet, unassertive, and private.
Orderliness*results were moderately high which suggests you are, at times, overly organized, neat, structured and restrained at the expense too often of flexibility, variety, spontaneity, and fun.
Emotional Stability*results were medium which suggests you are moderately relaxed, calm, secure, and optimistic.
Accommodation*results were moderately low which suggests you are, at times, overly selfish, uncooperative, and difficult at the expense of the well being of others.
Inquisitiveness*results were medium which suggests you are moderately intellectual, curious, and imaginative.

Your*Global5/SLOAN*type is*RCOEI
Your Primary type is*Egocentric

.


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## Psychopomp (Oct 3, 2012)

I didn't comment on the videos, but I am glad you posted them. There is no way you can call Ni or Si from them, but IxTJ is pretty apparent. I think that certain aspects of it were much more indicative of Ni, but nothing I could argue. I was thinking, as a result of this thread, how I work through these sorts of problems... and Acerbus reminded me to go look through Doctorjuice's YouTube videos. I am posting one here because, er, why not. 

I realize just how true it is that I get a 'sense' of whether something is logical or not... totally within myself... and have no desire to check that against any data (unless I feel like I don't know enough to make a judgment). Then, I just toss out ideas in order to get 'sensory' impressions from people's reactions. I think I am literally trying to agitate people or a situation in order for them to give 'tells'. I gather them into a database and compare them with what I've already categorized. From this, more ideas are tossed out until one 'feels' logical to ME. 

Fascinating. Dr. Juice says it better:






Also, 90% of the videos on YouTube about this stuff are at least partially wrong - most are wrong altogether. I am actually composing a list of reliable sources for this.... people who I have personally confirmed via internal logical vibrations to be of a particular type. Haha, I am so subjective with data and what I 'feel' is logical... it's hilarious. Quite a revelation to me... I knew it, but the words weren't there. Do you 'feel' whether or not something is logical, @_Arden_? I am really loving that wording. Mostly because I doubt a Te type would identify with it. I imagine that you'd rather look for data than a subjective impression, yeah?

Also, I was trying to think of how to explain Ne to you... and I think your description of it showed that you are still working through that one. While I was on YouTube just now, this video was 'recommended' for me. Kismet! I don't know if I know any better way to really show Ne. I am sure he drops a few choice words in this, because he always does, but if this isn't Ne... I don't know what is:






I am totally claiming Mr. Izzard for Team INTP even though I am sure many people might think ENTP. Most people would be wrong, I say, because I 'feel' that INTP is the more consistent and logical choice.... based on my sensory impressions of him in interviews and in his routines. Yes, that is why... 

If you wonder why this post even exists and why I randomly posted a comedian routine... 2:42-2:54 of the Dr. Juice video above will explain. Less focused, broader scope. Totally.


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## Arden (Feb 22, 2013)

OMG - I use to love Eddie Izzard.

I still use in common conversation "cake or death? ...cake please" lol

Nobody gets it but...

Right now I'm still trying to get woke up and functional... DLST and all that jazz... I'll give a more well thought out reponse later when the caffeine kicks in...


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Arden said:


> Se because after all this I then delve into my outward senses to compair and contrast.


The sensing functions don't really compare and contrast.



> Si I'm not sure I fully understand. The guy in the prior video compaired it to having a sense of estetics or order. I'm not sure I agree with that but as I stated I don't fully grasp Si. If my vauge understanding is correct then perhaps I do use Si. I have an appriciation for symetry. Having a particular order to my enviroment is somewhat important to me. But compaired to when I was younger this is a developed trait.
> 
> I'll give an example.
> 
> ...


Sounds more TeFi than Si.



Arden said:


> Your*Global5/SLOAN*type is*RCOEI


I am RLOAI.


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Arden said:


>


One day I will kill that woman. Really, I had a fight with her and she's annoying as hell, even more annoying that she claims to be INTJ. I can't even handle her way of talking.


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## Arden (Feb 22, 2013)

Acerbusvenator said:


> One day I will kill that woman. Really, I had a fight with her and she's annoying as hell, even more annoying that she claims to be INTJ. I can't even handle her way of talking.


She's a woman? Gosh I didn't put her much beyond her teens... lol

Yes I get you but I still like how the video gets to the point.


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Arden said:


> She's a woman? Gosh I didn't put her much beyond her teens... lol
> 
> Yes I get you but I still like how the video gets to the point.


She's apparently in her 20s.
I don't much trust what she says because apparently she has finally realized that she's an ESFP which may or may not be because I told her that she was stupid and knew nothing about anything and I told her that she's the most obvious ESFP I have ever seen or something like that.
I still don't think she knows much about anything and she annoys me too much for me to concentrate on what she says.

She's also immoral because she openly said that she doesn't care if she confuse people about MBTI or their type because most of her viewers are females bellow 16 and she couldn't care less about them. How she doesn't care about accuracy is stupid and immoral.

She said she gets as much money as a family of 4 in the U.S. On her own.


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## Arden (Feb 22, 2013)

Acerbusvenator said:


> She's apparently in her 20s.
> I don't much trust what she says because apparently she has finally realized that she's an ESFP which may or may not be because I told her that she was stupid and knew nothing about anything and I told her that she's the most obvious ESFP I have ever seen or something like that.
> I still don't think she knows much about anything and she annoys me too much for me to concentrate on what she says.
> 
> ...


Yes I can imagine why you hate her so much.

Although her "function" explinations, although breif, did fall in line with what I've read about them.

Like I said perviously her understanding is flawed somewhat but I just considered the source.

One - she's young
Two - her video was "sponsored"

Hell, when I found out how much they make when a sponsor picked up a video even I considered making them.

I didn't largely because I really don't take well to non constructive critcs. Also because I'm generally rather private. 

I do have a wealth of random knowledge though that others might find of interest / benifit.

But hounestly the money is most temping... I can see her perspective but at the same time I can understand your rage towards her lack of interest in being accurate.

Give it a few years though and you'll likely calm down abit. Or maybe not. I guess it rather depends on how personally she offended you. I still have people I hold malice towards when they cross my mind. But generally I've learned to let go of a lot of it. Not healthy or productive to dewl on people.


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## Arden (Feb 22, 2013)

> Also, 90% of the videos on YouTube about this stuff are at least partially wrong - most are wrong altogether. I am actually composing a list of reliable sources for this.... people who I have personally confirmed via internal logical vibrations to be of a particular type. Haha, I am so subjective with data and what I 'feel' is logical... it's hilarious. Quite a revelation to me... I knew it, but the words weren't there. Do you 'feel' whether or not something is logical, @_Arden_? I am really loving that wording. Mostly because I doubt a Te type would identify with it. I imagine that you'd rather look for data than a subjective impression, yeah?
> .


 @arkigos Arkigos

First - I think putting together a list of good resources is a fantastic idea. I for one know it would be helpful to me. And for those with the interest / willingness to learn, them as well.

To answer your question.

Do I "feel" if something is "logical". Perhaps but in order to assess that correctly I think you would have to more clearly define "feel" and "logic".

Let me see if I can break this down.

Lets say for example someone where to ask me a random question. My son does this all the time so I think its an excellent point of reference. 

Typical senario - My son is supose to be doing something. Let's say laundry. He doesn't like "chores". I will tell him to go do them. 
In the mean time I will start doing something myself. Cleaning the kitchen for example. 
My son will wait until I'm thoughly engrosed in a mindless activity and then come into the room to ask a question. Before I "think" I will instinctually begin attempting an answer.

If I am very knowledgable on the subject I may begin a long tangent on the subject.
If I am vaugely knowledgeable I might pull from various related sources and try to work out an answer.
If I know nothing I will probably respond, I don't know or I don't know but we can look it up later.

In this exact senario about half way threw my explination I will sometimes imagine the clip from the old cartoons where the charicters head turns into a predonminantly labled "sucker" ....in which case I stop and tell him to quit asking me stuff and go do his chores.

Now comparitively if the situation differs. As in, his chores are finnished and he's not trying to sucker me into "allowing" him out of his chores then the situation would follow...

If I know the answer - long explination. Possibly segwaying into other related topics
If I have a vauge grasp - will try to agrange idea - may investigate further threw research if it interests me
If I have no idea. I'll say I dont know. If it intersts me I'll research. If it doesnt but he won't stop bugging me i'll find the short answer. If it doesn't and he leaves me alone, probably wont persue it.

now this example assumes a logical explination. Science related perhaps.

A moral question would differ in that I would draw from personal experiences and moral judgements

An "emotionally responcive" question would depend on if I'd had the opportunity in the past to have already processed it.

The "feeling" aspect of my "logic" comes into play when inspired thought happens.
As in I get inspired and "feel" there is a solution and then follow that instinct to determine if my train of thought is in fact "logical". And by logical I don't mean emperical, nessisarily. I mean does it fit my understanding to my saticfaction.

Where "literal" feelings come into play there is nothing truely logical about them. I find when something strikes me emotionally and I am unprepaired with a pre thought out reaction the results can be disasterous. I often turn inward. I may not respond. I have to process the idea. Put it into a box I can label... "appropreat reaction to feeling situation X"

Lets take the topic of suicide. 

I had a neighbor. He's dead now. He didn't kill himself his brother did. He was fairly unstable. Emotionally unstable. I'd say about 2 or 3 weeks before he got killed he said to me that he was considering killing himself. 

I was shocked in the sense that I wanted to give an answer but couldn't. I value life. I liked him ok. I didn't want him to kill himself. Although I feel if someone is inclined to do so, and not just seeking attention, nothing you or anyone else says will stop them if they intend to do such a thing. My responce? 

"I don't think that's a good idea"

Now to be clear when I heard he was dead a couple of weeks later we where out of town. My first thought was that he had in fact killed himself. And in a way I'm not sure the subconsious intentions wernt there.

He and his brother lived together. Long story short his brother had thought he'd been commited by the police that same night. Around one or two am the neighbor friend of mine tried to "break into" the house. His brother opened the door with a gun in his hand and he, the neighbor not the brother, lunged at him. Reacting and not realizing it was his brother, shot and killed him.
Sorry if that was a little confusing. I didn't want to use names for privacies sake. 

I miss him sometimes. I feel sorry for his brother. But on that note I digress.

.....I'm not sure how well I answered that question... but either way there ya go.


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## littleblackdress (Feb 24, 2013)

Arden said:


> Typical senario - My son is supose to be doing something. Let's say laundry. He doesn't like "chores". I will tell him to go do them.
> In the mean time I will start doing something myself. Cleaning the kitchen for example.
> My son will wait until I'm thoughly engrosed in a mindless activity and then come into the room to ask a question. Before I "think" I will instinctually begin attempting an answer.
> 
> ...


My 10 year old does this all the time... I too, get "suckered" - so does my husband. And his grandmother. We are all different types of T... but I think it would work with an F, as well - it is a very effective strategy which both distracts and "strokes the ego..." Smart kid you have there!

Anyway, I, too, feel logic (as a Ti). I actually really liked the way @arkigos put it... to flesh out arkigos' theory, I think that Ti meanders, like feelings can... it slowly works around, sometimes in the background, but wandering... and that wandering makes you "feel" when something is coming together... it starts to give you a sense of how things can be BEFORE the pieces come together... because you are used to creeping up on it... Anyway, I use "feeling" words with logic all the time. 

More and more, though, I am settling on ISTJ for you - especially since I do get a feeling of Ne in this post... but not really Ne like I use Ne... Do you know any female ISTJs?

Oh, and an aside... I think that the questionnaire you filled out is geared towards determining Fe/Fi and Ne/Ni or Se/Si usage (not necessarily dominance)... but not really Te/Ti - so I think that people look more "F" on that questionnaire.


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## Arden (Feb 22, 2013)

littleblackdress said:


> My 10 year old does this all the time... I too, get "suckered" - so does my husband. And his grandmother. We are all different types of T... but I think it would work with an F, as well - it is a very effective strategy which both distracts and "strokes the ego..." Smart kid you have there!
> 
> Anyway, I, too, feel logic (as a Ti). I actually really liked the way @arkigos put it... to flesh out arkigos' theory, I think that Ti meanders, like feelings can... it slowly works around, sometimes in the background, but wandering... and that wandering makes you "feel" when something is coming together... it starts to give you a sense of how things can be BEFORE the pieces come together... because you are used to creeping up on it... Anyway, I use "feeling" words with logic all the time.
> 
> ...


Do I know any female ISTJs? I don't know. Its doubtful. Most of my friends are guys. Chicks often get on my nerves with few exseptions.


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