# Fi Function "Selfish" ... Uh nope?



## Charus (May 31, 2017)

Fi function is about one's setting up his morale and values. Fi users easily able to put themselves in the shoes of others (And see from their perspective), it can value people close to him/her, it easily builds It's emotional intelligence, and since they are liberal with their morale, they do not push their opinions on others.

They may do best to give care to those it values.

So explain the dumb me; How is Fi "Selfish"? I mean sure Fi is focused on It's own emotions (Which is kind of a Self-focus), but how the fuck Fi is selfish in anyway?

Since almost everywhere, I see people mentioning that Fi is the "selfish" function, it just seems like an excuse to derange IxFP users, and get the option to mistype more people as possible as IxFP types.


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## Zeri (Jan 23, 2018)

Well.... I think Fi users can come across self-absorbed at times, due to their tendency to relate things 'back to them' and 'their experiences'. Example: 

Me: 'Urgh... I had the worst day today...."
Fi-user: Urgh...tell me about it! Mine was a horrible! My boss is such a jerk. 

I've seen this with my Infp and Entj friends and have made posts about it too. As a Fe-user, I see a difference in the way we operate. If someone told me they had a bad day, my first instinct would be to focus on THEM - perhaps asking a question like, '"Oh, what happened? Why was it bad?". But I find that oftentimes a Fi-User will "sympathize" in that scenario by talking about themselves and their bad feelings.....which takes the focus off the speaker and puts it on 'THEM'. So if you're someone who really wants to vent or share something, it can be very annoying, because instead of getting to share your experience, all of a sudden your stuff is on 'hold' and you're listening to said Fi-user talk about THEIR experiences and feelings. Very annoying! And yes, to me that comes across as self-absorbed.


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## Bunniculla (Jul 17, 2017)

^ that’s honestly true to an extent and I can see how it can become annoying. 

I mean I don’t think Fi users are selfish, but the combination of Fi/Si does tend to make them relate things back to themselves. Personally, I don’t think it’s bad since it shows they understand what you’re talking about on a personal level (deep), and to me, that makes me feel more understood.


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## letsrunlikecrazy (Sep 21, 2015)

Yeah it can be difficult to talk to my mother (INFP) because of her tendency to relate everything back to her own experiences. I haven't really noticed her switching the focus to her own problems so much (because she's my mom and she wants to know about my life, I guess), but one thing I find really annoying is that she always assumes she understands where I'm coming from. When I tell her she doesn't, she'll insist she does and bring up her past experiences as proof. "You did X and Y happened, I also did X and Y happened to me, too, so I know just what you mean." And then she gets upset when I explain what I was really thinking and feeling and it doesn't match up to her expectations.

That said, I'm sure she's right a lot of the time, it's just that when she's right I don't notice and won't remember it later.


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## cosmoetic (Mar 24, 2020)

I think it's true thatFi and even Fe can lead to selfishness.

Having Fi doesn't mean that someone will automatically be empathetic and neither does having Fe. There are personal variations and influences from culture/family at play too.

I think the perception of viewing Fi as selfish comes from where the focus of each type usually is. From my understanding, Fi will be in touch with their experience and have empathy for a narrow, select person or group they can relate to (needs of the few outweigh needs of the whole). However, Fe will not be as in touch with their own experience and have empathy for the masses they seem worthy of their support (needs of the many outweigh needs of the few). Please take note that both viewpoints are based on some level of caring for others. However, they can lead to interesting scenarios depending on individual people and individual ideas they may have; their F orientation is irrelevant. Therefore, I don't think it's appropriate to argue whether or not Fe or Fi is the most fair based on the examples below.

An example of this could be someone with Fi having compassion for a criminal and their Fe counterpart that has compassion for all potential victims.

They may tap into feelings of desperation they have had before or being in an unfair situation leading to choices they weren't proud of. However, someone with Fe may focus on the safety and rights of the public at large to be safe from the criminal's crime.

Someone could say the person with Fi is being selfish because they are potentially risking the safety of the masses by advocating for a criminal. However, someone could also say the person with Fe is being selfish because they are not willing to give the criminal a chance and is more concerned with potential crime than letting someone try to make up for a mistake anyone could potentially fall victim to.

Let's flip this example and have someone with Fi express compassion for the victim and an Fe that has compassion for all criminals.

They may tap into feelings of being someone's victim and be strongly triggered by this; as a result, they may want the criminal (+ all criminals) to be punished to the fullest extent of the law. However, someone with Fe may think that it isn't right to blanket-punish all criminals because of something bad that happened to one person.

Someone could say the person with Fi is being selfish because in their blanket punishment, they may snag a number of criminals that may not deserve to be punished at the same severity level, especially if this were all based on something happening to one victim. However, someone could also say the person with Fe is being selfish because they are protecting criminals and putting potential victims at risk by trying to make sure the majority of criminals get fair punishment.

I hope we can eventually stop talking about which functions are better. I mean we can all have preferences for functions we like in our selves and others; however, that doesn't mean we have to talk about what we don't like constantly and contribute to others with our least preferred preferences feeling bad about themselves.


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## Fenty (Jun 17, 2014)

I don't think the right word is selfish, I would say they're self centred because everything revolves around them and they expect everyone to accommodate their feelings.

In addition, they tend give off a self righteous 'I do no wrong' vibe which makes people feel bad.

I have to say, this is by no means a bad thing it's just the way they are.


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## Enistery (Feb 13, 2015)

Aren't you the guy who got mad like 3 months ago when people proposed you might be an Fi-dom because you thought they were whiny and 'too feminine?'


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## Handsome Dyke (Oct 4, 2012)

Charus Channeling said:


> Fi users easily able to put themselves in the shoes of others (And see from their perspective)


 wrong


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## Charus (May 31, 2017)

Enistery said:


> Aren't you the guy who got mad like 3 months ago when people proposed you might be an Fi-dom because you thought they were whiny and 'too feminine?'


Yes, I'm here. No idea why you need to bring it up when It is already obvious, unless you seem to be looking to start a fight because you havent gotten over it, either please dont, I dont have the emotional capacity for it.



Saiyed Handsome **** said:


> wrong


Yes they are, Fi relates their experiences to others, which is pretty much putting one-self in other's shoes.

There are literaly other posts in this thread that explain it here for you, It's not hard to read.


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## Handsome Dyke (Oct 4, 2012)

Charus Channeling said:


> Yes they are, Fi relates their experiences to others, which is pretty much putting one-self in other's shoes.


 No, those are two very different things. The first is viewing someone else's experience from one's own perspective. The second is viewing someone else's experience from that person's perspective.


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## Charus (May 31, 2017)

Saiyed Handsome **** said:


> No, those are two very different things. The first is viewing someone else's experience from one's own perspective. The second is viewing someone else's experience from that person's perspective.


Oh, fair enough


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## Vesh (Mar 28, 2020)

I think a big part of why people feel the need to say Fi-users can be selfish is because of the whole "feelers are so nice" and "INFPs are so sweet and cute" stereotypes. There's definitely people who think Fi/Fe = nice, while Te/Ti = mean/bossy/unfeeling. Or sometimes Fi = nice, Fe = manipulative, etc. Which is all kinds of nonsense, and then people feel the need to jump in and remind everyone that Fi-users are no less human than other types and that includes potential selfishness.

And then also, as some other people have pointed out in this thread, Fi-users can sometimes be very self-centered, in ways that specifically relate back to Fi. It's worthwhile to be aware of potential issues if you do use Fi.

My personal experience is that as I get older, I gravitate far more towards types who have Fe rather than Fi in their primary four functions and I find myself more and more alienated by Fi. I do value my morals highly, but I'm fairly willing to shift them in the face of new evidence, and I'm always interested in hearing out perspectives that are very outside of my own, within certain limits of course. I find there are some Fi-users who struggle a bit more with that because morals seem a very instinctual thing to them.

I also tend to adapt to the group's mood/atmosphere to some extent, which I think is a Fe thing, whereas Fi-users are moreso relatively the same no matter what's happening around them. Depending on the kind of person they are, it can make me a little annoyed sometimes. It can come across as a lack of care for other people imo. Like for instance, I'm all good to be polite and play along temporarily with someone I don't really like for the sake of social harmony, even if I don't want them around me during my free time. I find there can be way more public friction between two Fi-types who rub each other the wrong way, because they don't care that much about keeping social harmony. That can also come across as its own type of selfishness.

But anyway, of course Fi users can be wonderful, kind and selfless people. It's just that it's not an inherently perfect function, morally.


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## Enistery (Feb 13, 2015)

Charus Channeling said:


> Yes, I'm here. No idea why you need to bring it up when It is already obvious, unless you seem to be looking to start a fight because you havent gotten over it, either please dont, I dont have the emotional capacity for it.


Nah, not looking to start a fight, just find it interesting that only a few months ago you were ready to die on the cliff that Fi = whiny and weak and while I don't believe you ever said the word 'selfish,' I wouldn't have been shocked if you did. Now that's what I call character development!

I would agree tho -- most people do tend to obfuscate Fi into selfishness but then again most people tend to do that with all introverted functions...after all, they focus on the self and can present to their extroverted counterparts as being selfish. Ti is about developing systems for the user while Te is about relying on external frameworks, right? So Ti can be seen as 'selfish' to dominant-Te reasons for the same reason Fe-users can see Fi as being selfish when they're not. They're just different ways of doing things.


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## Bluezone (Dec 24, 2018)

I don't think selfishness is part of a Fi personality. 

Selfishness to my understanding is being dominant over people, no matter what. They are happy when people agree, whatever they have to say and there can't be any other opinion besides their own. 

I avoid those kinds of people...


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## Bunniculla (Jul 17, 2017)

Bluezone said:


> I don't think selfishness is part of a Fi personality.
> 
> Selfishness to my understanding is being dominant over people, no matter what. They are happy when people agree, whatever they have to say and there can't be any other opinion besides their own.
> 
> I avoid those kinds of people...


Right, there’s a difference between selfish and self focused. The key is the intention, not the action.


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## ai.tran.75 (Feb 26, 2014)

Zeri said:


> Well.... I think Fi users can come across self-absorbed at times, due to their tendency to relate things 'back to them' and 'their experiences'. Example:
> 
> Me: 'Urgh... I had the worst day today...."
> Fi-user: Urgh...tell me about it! Mine was a horrible! My boss is such a jerk.
> ...



Ive made a thread about this - fi have a tendency to relate with others by common experiences and find comfort in such- Fe on the other hand will try to solve the issue and that’s where the conflict lies . Since fi is inward - they tend to understand their emotions above all else tend to not vent until the matter is resolved , they’re not asking for opinions or advice - Fe otoh have a tendency to solve- and in that sense it seems invasive bc Fi would feel “ why are you telling me this , I didn’t ask for your opinion ?”

I don’t think asking “ are you ok?” Or “ would you mind telling me about it “ pertains to Fi / Fe or any function in particular- being a good listener isn’t type related. Active listening pertains to emotional awareness not a judging function .

Fe tends to say what they feel the person wants to hear and solve the problem bc when they vent they’re comforted by advice - if the advice align with theirs then it will give them more security in their decision. Fi puts self in one place and comfort others in the way that they want to be treated . Both type when Misunderstood will appear selfish or invasive . 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Aelthwyn (Oct 27, 2010)

Thank you. Yes. This really bothers me. 

I've gotta say: _*ANYONE*_ can be selfish, it's *NOT* a Cognitive Function! Immaturity is not a Personality Type! 

I can, however, see ways that Fi can be misinterpreted as 'selfish' 
As mentioned above, some people view sharing about ourselves as trying to turn the focus onto ourselves, however this is often Meant 1. as a means of leading by example (I'm opening up to show it's safe for you to open up too), 
2. commiserating
3. demonstrating you understand, or trying to see if you do understand, what they're feeling. When I hear someone's emotions, it brings up memories of experiences of that emotion and gives me a sense of where they're at, by sharing a similar experience someone can say "yeah that's how I'm feeling" or "no actually I don't think you understand where I'm coming from". It's a way of checking my understanding, and of showing they're not alone in their feeling. 
4. or sharing mutual trust. You just opened up to me, I'm not just going to take your feelings/information and not share any of myself in return - that would be rude (something I find frustrating with Fe sometimes, it can feel greedy for my info and then stinty with it's own info ) 

Similarly, Fi may result in 'standing out in a crowd' because it often places authenticity above harmony, but this _doesn't_ necessarily mean FPs WANT attention, they just don't want to feel incongruent with themselves. For many Fi people, standing out is an unfortunate byproduct, rather than an attempt to steal attention or gain fame. 

Annnd being authentic can mean not faking a socially expected feeling. Again, this isn't done with the intent of being difficult or drawing attention, it's a matter of honesty, being real. Fi isn't incapable of being polite when they're seething or fake-smiling when they're depressed, but it often doesn't place as high a priority on people pleasing and smooth socializing as Fe people might. Sometimes I feel like Fe really doesn't want to 'have' to take on your emotional burdens when you express them, so it's unthoughtful of you to express them. Whereas I feel like Fi sees it more as your emotional state is what it is, even if you don't want to deal with others state, that's just the weather so you do what you can to deal. 

Fi's propensity to do it's own thing and let you do yours can feel selfish to someone who's top priority is not so much the activity but doing it _together_. Fi will be like, 'eh I don't want to do that, but don't let me stop you,' and then goes and does it's own thing. Fe then feels 'forced' to do what the Fi person wanted to because otherwise they'll be left doing their thing alone, which was not the idea. In some cases it really is important to put off your own plan and do what someone else wants, but Fi and Fe tend to have a different gage of when that is, and the result is sometimes Fi thinks Fe is being 'selfish' for 'making them go along' and Fe thinks Fi is being 'selfish' for refusing to join in. 


From my understanding, Fi does not mean you are only focused on your own feelings and cannot understand or care about other people. It is not so much about 'self' as it is about 'individuals'. Fi seems to recognize and value that every person is unique, coming from their own personal point of view, background, experiences etc. Fi may not do 'group think' very well, but it is perfectly capable of caring about all the other individuals out there, not just itself. 

Fi as a cognitive function means you derive your value system _primarily_ (not exclusively) from your internal reactions and processing of experiences rather than looking to external sources such as other people's opinions on what is important or beautiful, etc. (ex: common sayings of wisdom, people you respect, literary critiques, religious writings, fashion magazines, etc.) This is Not saying Fe is a sheep, but Fe seems to be more ready to defer to whatever it has deemed a worthy authority on something, and it seems to have a greater need to have external back-up or confirmation for its opinions. It's like... Fe wants to have an official group or name for their set of beliefs or opinions - to be able to say they belong to a particular school of thought or artistic style or whatever it may be. 

Fi generally doesn't mind being the only one who likes something and doesn't really question itself in the face of being 'alone' - that's not to imply Fi people don't enjoy finding out they're not alone or don't lament feeling like they are different, but that's not the same as re-evaluating their conclusion because they can't find an external stamp of approval. Fi tends to be more... skeptical or 'cherry-picking' when presented with others' opinions, and has less need to put a name or label on their unique mixture of values and opinions. 

I feel like... Fi checks external opinions against self, tosses aside what doesn't mesh and when it finds something that agrees it thinks, 'oh how refreshing.' I feel like Fe checks self against external opinions, begins to feel uncertain until it finds agreement, then gushes 'let me join you, I belong here!' 

Fi is NOT 
- being self absorbed
- being unexpressive and only feeling on the inside 
- only able to think 'what would _I_ feel in their situation' rather than understanding how _someone else_ might feel differently than they would
- unable to read others emotions or feel with someone else 
- being passive aggressive (which is not the same as being polite, I might add) 



Charus Channeling said:


> Fi function is about one's setting up his morale and values. Fi users easily able to put themselves in the shoes of others (And see from their perspective), it can value people close to him/her, it easily builds It's emotional intelligence, and since they are liberal with their morale, they do not push their opinions on others.
> 
> They may do best to give care to those it values.


exactly, well said. 

Fi is not about being a selfish, immature prat. It's also not being the weaknesses of a thinker without any of the attributes (which is sometimes how I feel like people describe it) 


ENFP, INFP, ESFP, and ISFP people are quite capable of empathy, putting others needs before their own, being a good listener, understanding others perspectives, .... Okay I'll stop my rambling.


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## NipNip (Apr 16, 2015)

Zeri said:


> Me: 'Urgh... I had the worst day today...."
> Fi-user: Urgh...tell me about it! Mine was a horrible! My boss is such a jerk.


Don't we _all _just talk about ourselves all time time? I mean, all I hear is I, I, I in conversation.

And if we're not saying it aloud, we're thinking it, using it as a background to try and interpret what the other person is saying.


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## Zeri (Jan 23, 2018)

ai.tran.75 said:


> Ive made a thread about this - fi have a tendency to relate with others by common experiences and find comfort in such- Fe on the other hand will try to solve the issue and that’s where the conflict lies . Since fi is inward - they tend to understand their emotions above all else tend to not vent until the matter is resolved , they’re not asking for opinions or advice - Fe otoh have a tendency to solve- and in that sense it seems invasive bc Fi would feel “ why are you telling me this , I didn’t ask for your opinion ?”
> 
> I don’t think asking “ are you ok?” Or “ would you mind telling me about it “ pertains to Fi / Fe or any function in particular- being a good listener isn’t type related. Active listening pertains to emotional awareness not a judging function .
> 
> ...


I agree with the first part in that Fi tries to understand and connect with others from their point of view. 

Fe tries to get to the heart of the matter, yes. We're 'others-focused'. In that sense, I think we're definitely more likely to be focus on the other person's feelings and say things like, "Are you ok?" "Tell me about it...." compared to several other types. It's the nature of Fe....seeking to engage with others and harmonize with their feelings etc. My Fi friends do this too, but not as much as I do. And there are some types who would barely ask questions like these, for example - ISTPS and INTPs. I think dom/aux Fe definitely lends itself to more active listening than other functions.


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## angelfish (Feb 17, 2011)

Zeri said:


> Well.... I think Fi users can come across self-absorbed at times, due to their tendency to relate things 'back to them' and 'their experiences'. Example:
> 
> Me: 'Urgh... I had the worst day today...."
> Fi-user: Urgh...tell me about it! Mine was a horrible! My boss is such a jerk.
> ...





Zeri said:


> I agree with the first part in that Fi tries to understand and connect with others from their point of view.
> 
> Fe tries to get to the heart of the matter, yes. We're 'others-focused'. In that sense, I think we're definitely more likely to be focus on the other person's feelings and say things like, "Are you ok?" "Tell me about it...." compared to several other types. It's the nature of Fe....seeking to engage with others and harmonize with their feelings etc. My Fi friends do this too, but not as much as I do. And there are some types who would barely ask questions like these, for example - ISTPS and INTPs. I think dom/aux Fe definitely lends itself to more active listening than other functions.


Yes, I agree with this differentiation. FJs active listen extremely well for the most part and seem to have a native understanding of how and when to use questions to encourage others to draw out their feelings and reflections. I tend to perceive as an FP that I try to get to the heart of matters, too - your comment piqued my interest because that is the phrase I often think/feel - but I have more "passive" methods - trying to get the person to feel comfortable and open around me, trying to get them to talk about whatever is most interesting/engaging for them, showing interest in their interests. I don't feel very knowledgeable or comfortable using those "drawing out" questions and methods, and what I do know I've mostly learned through mimicking my ESFJ mom.

For what it's worth, @Zeri, I'm sorry for your bad experiences with FPs. Ironically, I think our tendency to self-reference is somewhat derived from _not_ wanting to step on others' toes and make them feel ignored. We utilize talking about ourselves not just because it is pleasing to self-express but also because it can help illustrate that we relate and care without trying to "take over" someone else's story. We are typically sensitive to the ability of feelings and voices to get drowned out so we generally try to leave room for the other to speak their own experience and feelings. 

As an aside, interestingly, I find that IxTPs can be extremely good active listeners, too.


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