# want to raise baby as NT



## stiletto (Oct 26, 2013)

Elyasis said:


> Unlike everyone else I think it can be done at that age... whether or not it should be done is a question for someone more ethically inclined than I.
> 
> The brains of young children are constantly being pruned like a hedge. It's just a matter of using the right shears.
> 
> My thought is that anything too forceful would cause push back in the opposite direction. Even if they were "naturally" meant to develop that function.


I 100% agree.


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## monemi (Jun 24, 2013)

Green Girl said:


> I would never have believed that people are born with personality tendencies, until I actually had children. They behaved differently before they were even born.
> 
> While I was pregnant with my oldest son, he kicked and moved all the time. Once he was born, he was very tense, wanting to constantly be held and rocked. All through his childhood he was a tense perfectionist, and wanted to be in control of his environment. He is 27 now, and still is like that, although he is more self aware than he used to be. He is an ENTJ.
> 
> ...


I have three kids and I noticed personality differences pretty early on too. A bit young to be typing them just yet, but they are very different. I think anyone that's actually raised a child from newborn would see there is something very wrong with the OP's plan.


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## FakeLefty (Aug 19, 2013)

monemi said:


> I have three kids and I noticed personality differences pretty early on too. A bit young to be typing them just yet, but they are very different. I think anyone that's actually raised a child from newborn would see there is something very wrong with the OP's plan.


I never raised any children and I think the OP's plan is ridiculous.


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## FakeLefty (Aug 19, 2013)

Green Girl said:


> I would never have believed that people are born with personality tendencies, until I actually had children. They behaved differently before they were even born.
> 
> While I was pregnant with my oldest son, he kicked and moved all the time. Once he was born, he was very tense, wanting to constantly be held and rocked. All through his childhood he was a tense perfectionist, and wanted to be in control of his environment. He is 27 now, and still is like that, although he is more self aware than he used to be. He is an ENTJ.
> 
> ...


That's pretty interesting. I'm an xSTP and my brother is an INFJ, and although I don't remember my infancy, I'm pretty sure that my parents didn't make a conscious decision to mold us into certain personality types.


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## Themorning (Jan 8, 2014)

JA Grey said:


> I have a cousin who has a baby sister.


So your baby is also your cousin? What does the other cousin have to do with this story? I assume your cousin is not raising their sister?


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## HellCat (Jan 17, 2013)

How can nobody see this guy is joking? 

Just wondering.


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## ScarlettHayden (Jun 8, 2012)

FearAndTrembling said:


> This is why INFP getting advantage of. Made to feel guilty. You can't do that to me. I only recognize external control. Nothing controls me inside. So I think Fi is guilt. Freud called guilt the ultimate cultural victory over human freedom. A "garrison in a conquered city." It watches over them, and controls them, no matter how alone they are.


On the reverse side of that I see negative Fe as shame to be oneself in the face of greater society.

I had a similar upbringing.


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## ScarlettHayden (Jun 8, 2012)

This plan really isn't rational at all.


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## pernoctator (May 1, 2012)

guys help i need to ensure the continuation of my family so how do i dye my cousin's hair to my color???


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## Eudaimonia (Sep 24, 2013)

JA Grey said:


> I have a cousin who has a baby sister. The baby is slightly over a year old by now and I want them to be an NT. Doesn't really matter *which* type of NT though (I'm tolerant like that ) as long as my baby cousin grows up to be strong-willed, pragmatic and wanting to understand the world.
> 
> I know I'm going to get a lot of disapproval about messing with other people and whatever excuse they come up with. But considering how *rare* Rationals are, I am looking out for the future of our kind. I am being the silent guardian and watchful protector of everything we Rationals strive for.
> 
> Hope to get a lot advice on training our future generations to be curious, determined visionaries :happy:


Haha Good luck with that.

That is what my father tried to do for all his kids and he's an INTJ too and it didn't work except for the fact that my one brother is an INTP and he and Darth Vader don't see eye to eye on pretty much anything. You should have seen how exasperated my father was with the outflowing of emotions my other ENFJ brother would assault him with.

It was a great SHOW growing up I must say. Much like watching a circus.


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## Elyasis (Jan 4, 2012)

EMWUZX said:


> Here are my main problems with that idea (and this idea in general):
> 
> MAJOR PERSONALITY STUDY FINDS THAT TRAITS ARE MOSTLY INHERITED - NYTimes.com
> 
> ...


Well aware of all that, but the flip side is that no study can ever fully predict what environmental controls lead to what effect... well, without being incredibly unethical. Consider Skinner boxes but for humans... do you really think identical twins are the exact same, personality wise, no? Well... I wonder why that is if it's not a factor of genetics?

I fundamentally disagree that it is merely our genes that affect behaviour because of the lack of rigor in the tests.


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## Texas (Mar 24, 2013)

LeoCat said:


> How can nobody see this guy is joking?
> 
> Just wondering.


I'd like to think you're right but I have no evidence to support that conclusion.


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## HellCat (Jan 17, 2013)

Texas said:


> I'd like to think you're right but I have no evidence to support that conclusion.


I think the clue is in this hyperbolic sentiment {Quoting OP below} It reads like a campy monologue from a fantasy film. 

 I am looking out for the future of our kind. I am being the silent guardian and watchful protector of everything we Rationals strive for.


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## Texas (Mar 24, 2013)

LeoCat said:


> I think the clue is in this hyperbolic sentiment {Quoting OP below} It reads like a campy monologue from a fantasy film.
> 
> I am looking out for the future of our kind. I am being the silent guardian and watchful protector of everything we Rationals strive for.


I may have the OP confused with someone else, but based on previous posts I think the idea is serious (again, I could be remembering the wrong poster).


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## EMWUZX (Oct 2, 2014)

@Elyasis



> Well aware of all that, but the flip side is that no study can ever fully predict what environmental controls lead to what effect...


This is true, but most studies indicate that a large chunk of personality is caused by genetic factors. I saw a graph one time that showed that identical twins raised apart were more similar in personality than regular siblings _raised together_. This indicates that, regardless of environmental factors, identical twins are quite similar. Eerily so. I'll go find that graph...

Raising an ENFP baby to be an INFP adult I could believe (although, my gut tells me that there would be psychological ramifications), but going from ESTP to INTP seems like an impossibility. Even if it is possible, I feel like serious trauma could occur as a result.

EDIT: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Twin_Family_Study#Twins_reared_apart

See section on twins reared apart.

Excerpt from correlating article: http://psycnet.apa.org/journals/psp/54/6/1031/ (you have to purchase the full one; damn science) :dry:

From the excerpt:



> ...the overall contribution of a common family-environment component was small and negligible for all but 2 of the 14 personality measures.


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## Elyasis (Jan 4, 2012)

@EMWUZX

They've only really analyzed family environment vs. genetics. Peer influences are rarely controlled for, and could lead to much more effect on personality development than family.

Do Parents Matter? - Scientific American

Parent and peer influences compared - Adolescent alcohol use - Research report no.10 2004 - Publications - Australian Institute of Family Studies


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## EMWUZX (Oct 2, 2014)

@Elyasis

Yes, the peers may influence the environmental factors from the source listed prior, but that doesn't change the fact that total environmental impact is low. 
The kids don't have the same friends, so why were the results so similar in the last source I posted?

This is from your own source:



> Is this correlation due to what the children learned from their parents or to the genes they inherited from them? Studies using the proper controls consistently favor the second explanation. In fact, personality resemblances between biological relatives are due almost entirely to heredity, rather than environment. Adopted children don’t resemble their adoptive parents in personality.


Not to mention, the initial question was about raising a child as an NT. It would seem that that's impossible; peers seem to undermine the parents anyway. :wink:

Your second source's thesis said this:



> Research on decision-making has shown that whether parents or peers are more important depends on the quality of the parent-adolescent relationship


This I believe, but if you'll reread the initial sentence in my retort...


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## Grandalf (Jun 7, 2014)

A few things to the thread's readers

Wikipedia isn't exactly a creditable source. Also the NYTimes article was written in *1986*. If you are opposing my plan find a recent, creditable source proving that the plan won't work.



> whether or not it should be done is a question for someone more ethically inclined than I.


 @Elyasis If the parents and the baby's sister supported my plan then it's moral. Most opposition comes from the baby not being my kid and that the parents should decide. I am providing that option. Also, I would use safe methods such as a reward system to train the child. It'll be under the complete supervision of the parents. I'm *not* going to use *electric shocking*.

The training is christian as proven in proverbs 25:2 

Lastly, there's the oppression of freedom argument. With a pragmatic mindset the child won't be enslaved by emotions. A strong will and strategic mind will give her the arms to fight for her ideas. 

She will snap the chains of conformity and mediocrity.


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## Greyhart (Oct 13, 2014)

My father is INTP and my mother is ENFJ. I feel like I evolved into INTJ to combat father's aloofness and mother's emotional decisions. Similarly, my INFJ friend grew up in INTJ\INFP family. I don't know if balancing your parents is something that actually happens often but you might want to consider this.


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## orihara (Nov 23, 2014)

you know how you make raised bread? well it's basically the same but instead of greasing the bowl with oil you use the tears of feeler types 

try to not leave the kid for too long in the oven though, good luck


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