# Do You Fear Deep Love/Intimacy?



## Chris Merola (Jul 11, 2014)

I wonder if there is a correlation between types in terms of apprehension, anxiety, or fear of intimacy in a romantic setting.

As a male INFJ, I find myself very willing to pursue this. However, being 17 means that willing and worthwhile partners are few and far between. (I test with a secure attachment style) I'm sure attachment styles have more to do with this than anything, but its a fun experiment nonetheless.

Feel free to talk about experiences with opening up to partners, what your fears are on the subject, how long it takes you to fall in love, etc. Go crazy!


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## 66393 (Oct 17, 2013)

Yep. That's actually what ended my last relationship.


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## Coopsickle (Sep 12, 2014)

Not really, I'm slow to open up but thats because I'm not an open person. I'm not scared of intimacy, I just don't pursue it as I do not care for it, nor do I crave it.


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## cannamella (Mar 25, 2014)

INTJ female. Yes, I fear deep love. Maybe there's something to do with my enneagram too? Type 5 I am.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

ENTP male. I got with my future (ISTJ) wife, took me a while to get used to her touching me all the time. She says I was aloof for the first few months and she wasn't sure if I really liked her or not (I'm guessing she knows now).


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## chanteuse (May 30, 2014)

NF female 

I used to, fearing all good things must end, therefore why start? I spent decades dating safe guys and reserving part (or all) of me. 

It's not the way to live, not saying what should have been said or expressed what ought to be expressed.

I've made a decision to change. I will say the L word. I will let the guy know how I feel about him and about us (good or bad). I am making an effort to be transparent. Sure there's a possibility to get hurt when soft underbelly is exposed. It's my decision and I accept any consequences without bitterness.


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## EccentricSiren (Sep 3, 2013)

I've trusted people who've ended up using the information I gave them against me, so I'm pretty slow to trust now. If someone proves to be trustworthy, I'm pretty open with them, but it takes awhile to get to that point.
My last boyfriend seemed to like me as long as I didn't have anything that was bugging me. But eventually, everyone's going to have shit going on and want a little support from their partner or at least from someone. For me, it came in the form of needing an operation that could possibly leave a big scar on my face. I'd been together with my boyfriend for about 8 or 9 months by then, so I figured it was ok to open up to him about how scared I was, particularly about the scarring aspect. I couldn't have been more wrong. Instead of getting support, I got criticized for being concerned about how it would affect my looks. That, and the fact that a lot of people try to use anything that I tell them about myself to try to convert me back to the religion I was raised with when I did not consider being a member of that religion to be a particularly positive experience for me, have made me very reluctant to trust most people.
I feel accepted by my best friend, so I'm very open with her. If I found a male version of her out there somewhere, I think I'd be comfortable being open and intimate in a relationship with him. But I think just about anyone else would have to work pretty hard to earn my trust.


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## hellebore (Nov 30, 2014)

I used to, but no. I just have very high personal barriers and tend to close off when I'm not feeling well, which some spoiled brats don't like. As far as I'm concerned, no one worth touching or trusting gets upset that they can't necessarily have touch or trust early on - they want your comfort and understand your caution.

I'm usually happy to talk to friends about personal stuff and admit that we've cried during animated movies.

I don't necessarily like admitting to deep attachments that could severely wound me, but pretending they're not there isn't going to make them not real. Well, unless you push them away. Then they're just gone.


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## Nekomata (May 26, 2012)

I didn't use to, but now.. six years down the line... I've become such a closed off person xD


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## Chris Merola (Jul 11, 2014)

dyeats said:


> INTJ female. Yes, I fear deep love. Maybe there's something to do with my enneagram too? Type 5 I am.



I'm glad you said that, because my inspiration for this thread was an INTJ type five that I was initiating a romance with. Things were going all smoothly and she was very much interested and there was a definite connection, but she ended up severing contact because she feared commitment and didn't want to waste my time. To be fair, I came on very strong. It was actually on purpose so as to ensure she was comfortable and understood where I was coming from, but I'm sure it came off as some sort of desperation or too much intensity.

Anyway, thank you for that.


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## Kavik (Apr 3, 2014)

I don't know how to tear my own walls down.



Chris Merola said:


> I'm glad you said that, because my inspiration for this thread was an INTJ type five that I was initiating a romance with. Things were going all smoothly and she was very much interested and there was a definite connection, but she ended up severing contact because she feared commitment and didn't want to waste my time. To be fair, I came on very strong. It was actually on purpose so as to ensure she was comfortable and understood where I was coming from, but I'm sure it came off as some sort of desperation or too much intensity.
> 
> Anyway, thank you for that.


I'm a type 5 too and man nothing shuts me down faster than someone coming on too strong. I freak out for some reason.


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## Modal Soul (Jun 16, 2013)

yeah but i try to cover up this fear by being overly affectionate and smothering but when things get _really_ intimate i back away and lose interest because i'm not far enough along in my emotional development to actually love a person so when they reciprocate these feelings i freak out. my vagina closes up whenever they show any sign of weakness. i find it off-putting. it's bad.


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## Chris Merola (Jul 11, 2014)

Kavik said:


> I don't know how to tear my own walls down.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm a type 5 too and man nothing shuts me down faster than someone coming on too strong. I freak out for some reason.


This makes sense. I had thought that since type 5's weren't the best at recognizing emotional needs that I would be clear and direct so there wasn't any games or worrying on her part, but it ended up being overextension and didn't work out. It was my mistake, I should have been more natural and not rush. But as a type 2 and auxiliary Fe user its very hard not to act in anticipation of someone's feelings and try to be sensitive to them.


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## EccentricSiren (Sep 3, 2013)

Kavik said:


> I'm a type 5 too and man nothing shuts me down faster than someone coming on too strong. I freak out for some reason.


Yes! Especially if I don't know how I feel about them yet. The minute I know they have strong feelings for me, I'm uncomfortable if I don't know whether or not I feel that way about them. Or if someone asks too many questions about me. That's just awkward.


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## Kavik (Apr 3, 2014)

Chris Merola said:


> This makes sense. I had thought that since type 5's weren't the best at recognizing emotional needs that I would be clear and direct so there wasn't any games or worrying on her part, but it ended up being overextension and didn't work out. It was my mistake, I should have been more natural and not rush. But as a type 2 and auxiliary Fe user its very hard not to act in anticipation of someone's feelings and try to be sensitive to them.


2s and 5s are pretty much polar opposites, in a good way. From what you described the girl you liked might have been an 5 with an average integration into 8, SX dom, and I can relate to how she might have felt.



> *SECURITY (FIVES GOES TO AVERAGE EIGHT)*
> *Most often, if Fives feel that others are intruding on them or imposing their wills, they will simply leave quietly if they can or shut down into a detached, disdainful silence.* With people or situations in which they have more confidence, however, Fives may suddenly risk behaving like average Eights, forcefully asserting their boundaries and confronting anyone or anything that displeases them. They become feisty, argumentative, and relentlessly provocative. In this mode, they take a tough stance, putting everyone on notice that they cannot be trifled with, but in ways that often cause people to react against them. They may become domineering, even aggressive, while questioning others' competency.





> *Sexual Fives: This Is My World (Ichazo's "Confidence") *
> Sexual Fives focus their hoarding in the area of intimate relationships. *The combination of instinct and type are at odds here*: the Five defense is to withdraw, while the sexual instinct demands intimacy and connection. Most Sexual Fives live in an uneasy truce between these polar influences, but *they seek to resolve this tension by slowly inviting prospective intimates into their own secret world.* Sexual Fives are primarily focused in their imaginations, but they believe that most others would find their thoughts and preoccupations dark and even frightening. At the very least, they are certain that others will find them odd or eccentric. Nonetheless, they want to share their perceptions and hidden worlds and secretly hope to have a deep connection with a single soul, a mate for life, who can understand them and their sometimes bizarre views of reality. Intimacy for them entails finding someone else who will explore the surreal vistas of their inner world. They also look to their partner for some degree of help in dealing with people and the practical affairs of life. They hope that their partner will run interference for them and give them confidence to navigate the external world. If Sexual Fives are disappointed in love, they may retreat and remain unattached for long periods of time, even years.


So yeah, trouble with fast pushing and its sense of bombardment, and being afraid of opening up until they are completely comfortable with the other person and have sorted out how they feel towards them which can take time. When they do open up to that person it's like one of those cheesy 'I will only be ever able to love once' cliches, making them approach a relationship with trepidation stemming from that mindset.

5s recognize emotional needs, they're just slower at it, approaching them like a mine field with half a mind to jump up and take off at the slightest scare. They like slow as in slow burn romance novel speed. 2s seem to like things to move faster or they may feel left out or unwanted by a 5s hesitancy in the early stages of a relationship. 


Oh look, after all that I was about to hit submit when I found an entire page dedicated to type 2 and 5 compatibility.
Enneagram Type Two with Enneagram Type Five


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## cannamella (Mar 25, 2014)

Chris Merola said:


> I'm glad you said that, because my inspiration for this thread was an INTJ type five that I was initiating a romance with. Things were going all smoothly and she was very much interested and there was a definite connection, but she ended up severing contact because she feared commitment and didn't want to waste my time. To be fair, I came on very strong. It was actually on purpose so as to ensure she was comfortable and understood where I was coming from, but I'm sure it came off as some sort of desperation or too much intensity.
> 
> Anyway, thank you for that.


I don't know about your INTJ but for me, it's not that I fear commitment but I fear if my significant other can't keep up with me for a long time. I'm intense and 'all or nothing'. If you cannot accept and understand me, leave me and I'm fine. Love is very subjective and up to any interpretations and when I somehow rationalize what the SO is trying to do, I begin to separate either I love what he is doing or I love what makes him do it. If I love what he is doing, then it can be anyone doing the same thing for me. If the latter, well, see how far I can figure it out. And when in love, most of the times, I'm not even aware of what I'm doing about it. It's somewhere in the back of my mind and I just do it. It's not that I love someone, jump into it, and see where it leads. But it's like, unstoppable whys for a long time and once I'm certain it works, I'll give my best and everything for SO. I can be romantic but it really takes the right moment which I can't explain well and it rarely happens if by romantic means cute talk or stuff like that. Wait, no. I don't do it. Alright, I give up. I can't explain it. Or maybe I need to know first whether it's worth it or not to do such thing. Oh and if she was interested, she would have asked about things you ensure her to the point she gave hints or confirmations. Hope it helps


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## karasuko (Jan 18, 2015)

ESTP female, yes this is why I ended my relationship because my ex was an ESFP and I felt he was too clingy and needy. I kept telling him that I needed my space and that this would take a while to develop because I didn't really like affection or trust easily and he didn't understand. In the end I had to explain 3 times that we were breaking up because he didn't understand me. :/


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## Chris Merola (Jul 11, 2014)

Kavik said:


> 2s and 5s are pretty much polar opposites, in a good way. From what you described the girl you liked might have been an 5 with an average integration into 8, SX dom, and I can relate to how she might have felt.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I've actually read that article on the twos and fives before! I felt good reading it, and since I had heard from the INTJ girl that she would never want to date someone like herself, only a complimentary partner, I felt more confident.

It was very kind of you to put so much effort into that last post. I am not sure what her variant was, but she seems pretty social and liked by others for a five, (Not to generalize, you get what i mean) so the SX variant seems right.

I think I'm just going to wait until things are calm on a platonic level again and I can just enjoy her company as a friend.


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## Chris Merola (Jul 11, 2014)

dyeats said:


> I don't know about your INTJ but for me, it's not that I fear commitment but I fear if my significant other can't keep up with me for a long time. I'm intense and 'all or nothing'. If you cannot accept and understand me, leave me and I'm fine. Love is very subjective and up to any interpretations and when I somehow rationalize what the SO is trying to do, I begin to separate either I love what he is doing or I love what makes him do it. If I love what he is doing, then it can be anyone doing the same thing for me. If the latter, well, see how far I can figure it out. And when in love, most of the times, I'm not even aware of what I'm doing about it. It's somewhere in the back of my mind and I just do it. It's not that I love someone, jump into it, and see where it leads. But it's like, unstoppable whys for a long time and once I'm certain it works, I'll give my best and everything for SO. I can be romantic but it really takes the right moment which I can't explain well and it rarely happens if by romantic means cute talk or stuff like that. Wait, no. I don't do it. Alright, I give up. I can't explain it. Or maybe I need to know first whether it's worth it or not to do such thing. Oh and if she was interested, she would have asked about things you ensure her to the point she gave hints or confirmations. Hope it helps


You philosophy on love is relatable, I see where you are coming from. I think the feeling of intense, all or nothing love is me to a T. I think it also describes the INTJ girl; when I said she was afraid of commitment, it was more in the sense of a fear of things not working out or herself getting hurt and such.

I do believe she was very interested, she gave large compliments, stated how she was attracted to me and liked me, asked me many personal questions, frequently stated how she loved our talks and time together, etc. She was just afraid of risking it all. We discussed our philosophies on love frequently in our talks, and I discussed my desire for ultimate intimacy, a perfect level of communication, and how an ideal relationship is one of my biggest goals in life. I think she was worried that she wouldn't be that to me, which is why she told me she didn't want to waste my time. 

For now I'm just going to take a breather, I think in the future we will be friends again, which I'm happy with. Thanks so much for the response!


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## Victarion (Aug 12, 2014)

Yeah, I tend to avoid it. Privacy is something I require for myself, probably because I tend to feel safer that way.


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## Victarion (Aug 12, 2014)

I'm type 5 too. I'm seeing a pattern here.


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## SlightlyEccentric (Feb 13, 2014)

I voted somewhere in the middle, I'm learning to be more open, I can still be quite guarded when I first meet someone but there are some friends I've made recently that we just are similar in personality and thinking I can open up too. I guess while I was very apprehensive with my kind of both past and current partner (don't ask it's complicated) to start with but then opened up a lot, I find it hard to trust once I trust I can open up but due to abandonment and other issues I can be a wall to some people getting named the 'iceman' in school kind of justified that :tongue:. Do I fear it though? Do I fear love or intimacy no not really, I guess I fear being hurt by them maybe or being harmed by them in some way whether it's them betraying me or breaking my trust/heart that scares me so I guess I can be a bit more shut off to avoid that fear. But fear I like to think I don't truly fear anything :tongue: but I'm learning to let the walls down for some but it's a struggle but I'm getting there.


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## Sourpuss (Aug 9, 2014)

Yes, I suppose I do. Or perhaps I just fear that it doesn't really exist? I'd be loathe to open up to a partner out of fear that sooner or later, I'll be hurt by it. Plus I have a hard time trusting someone to that degree, to have that kind of influence over me, and I'd deep inside I'd feel wrong about because I wouldn't think it was something I was worthy of.


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## Milya (Jul 9, 2014)

Oh yes. I'm a typical child of an alcoholic and it's hard for me to trust people totally.


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## sjack (Mar 18, 2013)

Let me list off a few things I'm scared of:

1.Spiders
2. Gigantic drunk Irish Men
3. Intimate relationships

Imma all about that casual love. True love is too Hollywood for my modern free rollin' sensibilities.


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## Golden Rose (Jun 5, 2014)

I long for deep love and intimacy, to feel completely like myself and loved for who I am by someone and then willingly merge but it's like I have ten layers of walls around me. Not because I'm untrusting but because I know how easily hurt I am by abandon and I generally keep people at a distance and don't like to open up until I can feel genuine interest and bonding, I make mistakes easily when I'm broken and vulnerable and not at peace with myself. I'm a doormat despite knowing exactly what I feel and want. With the one I truly loved there wasn't even the issue as we both eased our walls naturally and the love just flew through, even in alternative forms and she never took advantage of my sensitivity.

I'm relaxed and quiet but I still don't like socializing or letting people in too easily. My feelings run deep.


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## series0 (Feb 18, 2013)

Chris Merola said:


> I wonder if there is a correlation between types in terms of apprehension, anxiety, or fear of intimacy in a romantic setting.
> 
> As a male INFJ, I find myself very willing to pursue this. However, being 17 means that willing and worthwhile partners are few and far between. (I test with a secure attachment style) I'm sure attachment styles have more to do with this than anything, but its a fun experiment nonetheless.
> 
> Feel free to talk about experiences with opening up to partners, what your fears are on the subject, how long it takes you to fall in love, etc. Go crazy!


I love the poll! Excellent question. 

I think you'll find that age makes people at first less likely to open up to others, even significant others, quickly. Then, with wisdom, there is another stage of continuous progress towards openness if one is growing. Many close up and fail to continue to grow. They literally begin dying in spirit while yet alive in body. Fear is a big part of that closure.


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## Animal (May 29, 2012)

I'm not afraid of intimacy or love. I welcome it. I wish I could go back to my home planet where this was the norm. 

What I am afraid of is being rejected because my feelings are so powerful and other people are afraid of that passion. Since I don't have that same fear of intimacy, and my feelings are powerful and ever-flowing, it scares people. So I am afraid to show how open I am because I see that this pushes people away, and the only way I won't be rejected is if I am patient with other people's fears.

It would all be very easy if the men I fell for were like me - demisexual, and then once the friendship and bond is there, extremely open to passion. But it never goes that way. I tend to fall for men who are a bit more emotionally distant and slow to open up. Perhaps I seek balance. 



series0 said:


> I love the poll! Excellent question.
> 
> I think you'll find that age makes people at first less likely to open up to others, even significant others, quickly. Then, with wisdom, there is another stage of continuous progress towards openness if one is growing. *Many close up and fail to continue to grow. They literally begin dying in spirit while yet alive in body. Fear is a big part of that closure.*


I'm 34 and more open than ever. I am younger each year than I was before, closer to my innocence and inner truth than before. Nobody can take that away from me. With each heartbreak, loss and trauma I only know myself more intimately and strengthen my resolve to be true to myself.

I realize that may sound counter to my above post but.. it isn't. Being true to myself means being patient and waiting as long as it takes for the one I love. Some people stop doing this before they turn 18. They expect immediate gratification and insist that it's not worth 'waiting around' for someone. I will never be like this. I love with the heart of a 12 year old girl and the wisdom of a trauma survivor. Anything less, and I might as well be dead. I refuse to waste my life trying to find a 'perfect husband' or fill some space by going on empty dates. I'm fine by myself, but when I feel love, I'll follow my heart to the ends of the earth.


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## Animal (May 29, 2012)

double post


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## nO_d3N1AL (Apr 25, 2014)

I haven't been in a romantic relationship but I fear that I may be _too_ open. I'm surprised that other NTs opted for the first option too


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## Chris Merola (Jul 11, 2014)

series0 said:


> Chris Merola said:
> 
> 
> > I wonder if there is a correlation between types in terms of apprehension, anxiety, or fear of intimacy in a romantic setting.
> ...


Thanks for the response! I can see how many get discouraged due to failure, and trust issues. Ive had a healthy dose of that from my cheating BPD ex who put me through hell. I remain optimistic, though.


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## stargazing grasshopper (Oct 25, 2013)

Nah, I had likely scared away a couple of women because I'm kinda the opposite of fearing loving intimacy.


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## series0 (Feb 18, 2013)

As I have noted before, we are very similar. I wish you luck my sister at arms, in finding your passion returned. Imagine a man that is like you. I scare away women that balance me due to stereotypes a lot. My depth of feeling outpaces theirs and most suspect JUST a ravenous need for sex. 

I have learned that the balance in approach is essential to most other parties. The cool part is I can match ANY speed and intensity so for me it becomes a matter of running a lot of choices through the filter. Getting older is not helping. The energy required to get out there and ante up again and again is indeed a little draining. Not on the surface but after a succession of near misses there is a marked tendency towards depression and shutdown.

I do believe that intimates are inherently scary to socials. We are essentially a little needy for them. Too focused. I am just social enough to enjoy light hearted parties and get invited back. Beyond that give me 1 on 1 any time. I'm quality over quantity and I do believe that is the tradeoff. 

I also believe that being closed off and broken is a choice. With a true intimate like you or me around, the other person can choose to open up. They are safe from a certain perspective. I've read a ton of your posts and I know that 'Delicate Thunder' is your delivery. Mine also. But I have met a sad number of women who refuse to open again. To anyone. Even someone as persistent and careful as I am. I hope they find the magic somewhere, but, I am terrified for them if I cannot reach them, that no one (but themselves) can. I don't take this personally. They have to decide to open, to not be broken. But, I admit, I have not seen a single one with this issue do it yet. They move ever closer to frozen brokenness. Very sad.

'Art is the Blood of the Exile' - ! Love that!


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## MNiS (Jan 30, 2010)

Fear of deep love/intimacy? I think that's something a bit silly to be afraid of unless a person has had a history of bad/failed relationships that hurt a person pretty severely. Otherwise no, I don't.


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## Lycrester (Dec 26, 2010)

I think it would take me quite a while to open up to my partner. I've never really been in a relationship before but I can imagine it would make me a nervous wreck.


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## niss (Apr 25, 2010)

Everyone struggles with intimacy. It is the ultimate in vulnerability.


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## blood roots (Oct 29, 2013)

Opening up is something I struggle with in the relationship I'm in now. Being intimate means being vulnerable and that's something I have trouble with, definitely. I fear the rejection. I'm slow to trust. I've always been a very guarded person. I need to build that trust first before I let you in and if I do you basically better not hurt me with what I reveal.


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## spylass (Jan 25, 2014)

INTP woman- I pretty much never feel close to people. And if we are talking romantically- I am the most distant with people I am romantic with.

The idea of being platonically close with someone doesn't bother me that much but the idea of falling deeply in love with someone and having all the "love is blind" shenanigans makes me very uncomfortable, a little repulsed, and yes there is the fear that it might somehow happen to me somehow.


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## spylass (Jan 25, 2014)

But then, what is "opening up"? I have no problem telling people things about myself. I know that they can't use it against me, and that ultimately telling people every last detail- most people will still not understand me at all. 

So "opening up" does not necessarily mean bonding or getting close. 
I never feel deep intimacy with people, even people who know all kinds of revealing, personal information about me. They don't know how to process the information, or how to draw conclusions from it. Even when I explain myself to people, people don't understand. 

I have never gotten even remotely close to love. Usually people like me more than I like them, and they want more from me than I want from them, and it turns into a relationship where I feel smothered and they feel under appreciated. And I get tired of them.


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## badwolf (Jun 17, 2012)

It depends on the person, but usually, if I've agreed to be in a relationship with them, then I know I'll be comfortable opening up to them.


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