# Enneagram Tritype 548 Information (Part 1)



## CherryBl0550m

This is information collected and paraphrase by PerC's madhatter. It can be found here and here. I took out the information that does not apply directly to 548.

Blue - Particularly Identifiable
Yellow - Not like me at all

548:

The Scholar Archetype 

Somewhat introverted, intelligent, headstrong, detached, hyper introspective problem solver with strategic thinking and emotional astuteness.

*Darkest tritype- 458, 854, 584 (particularly when 4 or 5 are in charge)

548 (or 845) is the most intense type, particularly if *sexual*. Intuitive, knowledgeable and direct. This is the type that really craves knowing what makes people tick and builds what she calls mental or internal maps that are quite astute as to what makes people do what they do. This tends to be the darkest of the tritypes because of the intensity of the 3 types (particularly if 4 or 5 is in charge). David said there is a propensity toward the grotesque, anatomical or intensely esoteric. This is the "true scholar" and the life mission is to disseminate what information is found. The blind spot is this has 3 types that can be prone to arrogance and the attachment to the internal map of what they've found can make them blind to new information as it comes in. So there will be a tendency to become fixed in their worldview or ideas particularly about people and not take in new information. So while the map is quite extraordinary that they've painted they may miss a whole region and thus not have the full picture. This is also the most cynical and the tendency to be so overly opinionated can make people turn off to their wisdom. 
An intensely original archetype with a passion to explore and to find the hidden meaning in all things.

(4)-5-8 - The Power-Seeking 4
4-(5)-8 - The Reactive 5
4-5-(8) - The Withdrawn 8

Impenetrable inner world. They are complex individuals, but they are more characterized by the way they tend to push everyone away from them.

The 548 is more mental and reserved...like the difference between 4 and 5. Both are intuitive thinkers and tend to be introverted. They are intellectuals that take action when they feel strongly about something. Others are always surprised when the 8 appears as this tritype appears quiet.

A couple of distinctions...The 458 is more emotionally expressive than the 548. The content can be very different. The 458 is more inclined to talk about their feelings about a subject of interest whereas the 548 will be more reserved and speak about tinteresting facts about a subject. The energy of the 458 is focused on the analysis of their feelings first whereas the 548 is focused on the analysis of the information first.

Social increases the need to have the critical information needed to be interesting to others-- to be wise and in the know. Sp increases the focus on the the basics... the resources one must expend to have the information.What will the cost be? All 6 variations of the 458 will avoid being ignorant and speak up for what they believe in. For example, in contrast, the sp548 will be far more reluctant to speak than the sx845 but both fear being inadequate, incompetent and powerless.

seeing your place as in the shadows is exactly how the 458 describes themselves. The 458, 468 and 478 are all truth tellers in their own way. The 468 is the one that is hyper reactive and still seeks a fair authority. The 458 and 478 are their own authorities.

the 548 tritype is the 5 most likely to appear 4-ish.

I think that 458 tritype could be mis-typed as 5, but this is much less likely than a 548 being mis-typed as a 4. It is double reactivity and resultant emotional intensity/volatility of having 4 and 8 together that clashes with the 5, even when 5 is core.

out of 458/459/451 I'd guess that both 459 and *451* would seem more 5-like (or, more accurately, be more likely to be mis-typed as 5) than 458.

(EIDB 548 tritype discussion thread: The Enneagram Institute Discussion Board - 5 4 8 Tritype ):

[Intense, especially with sx first. Independent, dark, cynical. Most eccentric, creative 5 that tends to swing between detachment and emotionality. Most 4ish 5, especially with four wing. Tough-minded, analytical 4 that is staunchly individualistic. Withdrawn, sensitive, creative 8. "Scholar" archetype if I remember correctly. Wants to know what makes people tick.

Actually, I think this 5 would be more fantasy oriented than information oriented. This would be the dreamy 5.

What I was criticising was the implication that the unique view a 5-4-8 creates is a monolithic system which doesn't change or adjust due to presumably stasis or narcissism or an inability to take criticism. Dynamism, flux and big intellectual shifts are much more likely.
While a 5-4-8 is likely to be an intellectual narcissist, I think any criticism that they are unable to change or adjust their view is the opposite of the case because there is an intense self-criticism as well. Change and flux are constant.

first, because 5-4-8's are unlikely to think in systems (which you've now agreed with), and second, because of their sensitivity to inconsistency, constant self-criticism and tendency to change positions.
I think there is an element of truth in the description though, in that 5-4-8's can be wilfully perverse and too arrogant to accept criticism from others. But they are likely to outwardly repudiate that criticism, and then later modify their views accordingly rather than stubbornly retain their original position.

My experience of this type is of course my only experience of any kind, so hard to be 'objective'. But here goes. I find it a complex, contradictory and often perplexing type to be. The 3 numbers pull against each other, and there is no social element(3, 6, or 9) to smooth the way. This is exacerbated if you have SO as your last stacking. Although all generalisations are suspect (including this one), it is particularly hard to generalise about this tritype. This tritype seems peculiarly subject to flux, and thus can vary greatly, or have many different real selves.
However, dark, eccentric, creative, cynical, sensitive, scholarly are not wide of the mark (although tend to create a caricature if taken too seriously). It's true that we tend to be intensely interested in the psychology of other people, if only because we are at an utter loss to figure out ourselves much of the time. In a way, we are natural scholars but too scholarly, polymathic and restless for universities these days, which reward the careerist specialist.
5-4-8's are subject to rapid oscillations of emotion and thought, equally capable of preternatural strength and weakness of mind at any given moment. One minute an angel, the next a cruel tyrant. A lot of love and a lot of hate. Exquisitely sensitive but all too capable of cruelty and callousness to others. *One wants to know, in a totalizing and essential fashion, know poetically but know precisely as well, but never quite gets there.*

We are paradox-mongers, live in metaphor, and are always trying to find new ways to say and see things (and hence are often pretentious) - i.e. iconoclasts - but can be as pedantic, systematic and anally analytical as anyone - i.e. using our 5-ness to beat others at their own games when they have underestimated us as loose, kooky or not with it.
5-4-8's have a predisposition to religion and philosophy, especially pessimistic and melancholic strains, but a commensurate disappointment with the lack of answers that satisfy us and a concomitant melancholy.

I would caution against such a romanticized view of this tritype as it may defeat the value of knowing one’s type. I would disagree with a lot of the first things you said about this combination – “many real selves” and “subject to flux”. I find a kind of coherency in that here you’ve got two reactive types (4,8) two rejection (5,8) two withdrawn (4,5) and three very independent, very resistant to anything that originates outside itself, and not particularly concerned with objectivity, consistency, or interested in being accessible in any way. The greatest fluctuation I feel is between feeling incredibly hard and strong to being very self-conscious and inept. Strong and Vulnerable are my two modes, brought out when I feel I am unable to make that leap across the fragments of words and space between myself and someone I have an interest in.


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## autumnf4lls

from one INTP 5w4 548 to another, this is an incredibly well-written type analysis. in true 548 fashion, it stung a bit lol


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## SuzFisher

From a 4w5 so/sx (451) Mama: 
I am trying to raise (and hopefully not traumatize) my 5w4 sx/so (548) INTP daughter, age 13; this was extremely helpful! Her creativity is boundless...but so is her nihilistic world view (and in 2020, who can really argue with this sometimes?!?)... "one minute an angel; the next a cruel tyrant..." Uh. yes. And school--ugh. She needs to be in some other type of program of which does not yet exist. She is definitely not the "Career specialist" as mentioned above. I wish there was somewhere to go so she could meet a 548 adult; her tendencies towards negative self-concept can be quite aggressive...does anyone else experience this? Of course, I am familiar in my 4w5ness... Thank you for this!! so helpful!


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## veronica_reid

SuzFisher said:


> From a 4w5 so/sx (451) Mama:
> I am trying to raise (and hopefully not traumatize) my 5w4 sx/so (548) INTP daughter, age 13; this was extremely helpful! Her creativity is boundless...but so is her nihilistic world view (and in 2020, who can really argue with this sometimes?!?)... "one minute an angel; the next a cruel tyrant..." Uh. yes. And school--ugh. She needs to be in some other type of program of which does not yet exist. She is definitely not the "Career specialist" as mentioned above. I wish there was somewhere to go so she could meet a 548 adult; her tendencies towards negative self-concept can be quite aggressive...does anyone else experience this? Of course, I am familiar in my 4w5ness... Thank you for this!! so helpful!


548 INTP 5w6 (choleric-melancholic if it piques your interest) here. Just my opinion but I personally wouldn’t feel good if my mother agreed that I could be a “cruel tyrant” at times, nor do I think I would ever think to associate my child with that. (unless of course they committed some sort of grave crime like murder or were homophobic, racist etc) I don’t think that trying to type your child and psychoanalysing them accordingly is the best thing to do and I know I’d hate if either of my parents had done that. Obviously you have a right to parent your child however you wish but it’s not something I would do or recommend that others do. 

I think when I was younger, I would have appreciated to just be supported by my parents as opposed to being led to what they wanted me to pursue. My mother (I believe) is something along the lines of a 216 and the innate “one-ness” got on my nerves quite a lot when I was younger. (not anymore, i’m in the process of getting ready to permanently cut off contact; we have a rocky relationship and it’s not one i intend to continue) 548s generally seem to harbour discontent for authority so just be aware of that and try not to push her too much because in my experience, that always backfires. Chances are she’s quite intelligent and at a young age like that, she has the perfect atmosphere (young fresh mind and all that) to excel at whatever she puts her mind to. Take note of hobbies or interests and do your best to make it accessible for her to pursue them to the best of her ability. I feel like I definitely could have learnt a lot of skills when I was younger and kept them with me as I grew up. Although I did feel as though I had noticeably more skills than my classmates (i.e i speak multiple languages and play many instruments), it’s just a matter of nurturing those and also noticing where she struggles (science for me) and working on that. If she’s like me, she might experience dips in productivity and motivation (intellectual burnout of sorts) so encouraging her to pursue those dreams would counteract that a bit. Establishing some sort of routine at a young age would make sure she keeps some semblance of order as she matures. I found that my systems all devolved into chaos quite easily when I was in control of my work schedule and allocating time to hobbies and socialising as well as basic things like eating meals and getting sleep. Don’t force her into discipline though, that won’t age very well. 

I currently go to therapy but it would have been incredibly beneficial to do that a younger age so perhaps look into that if you haven’t considered it? She doesn’t need to have social anxiety or anything (which I do) but it’s just helpful to talk to someone who won’t judge you for seeming insensitive or struggling with empathy. 

Sorry for how poorly worded this is, I’m currently sleep deprived and in need of a good emergency crash nap on my couch. These are just my thoughts, take it or leave it, agree or disagree, accept or ignore, all up to you, the world is your oyster, you are the captain at the helm of this ship. I wish you all the good in the world especially in these times. Woah, I wrote a lot.


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## LiszBrosze

SuzFisher said:


> From a 4w5 so/sx (451) Mama:
> I am trying to raise (and hopefully not traumatize) my 5w4 sx/so (548) INTP daughter, age 13; this was extremely helpful! Her creativity is boundless...but so is her nihilistic world view (and in 2020, who can really argue with this sometimes?!?)... "one minute an angel; the next a cruel tyrant..." Uh. yes. And school--ugh. She needs to be in some other type of program of which does not yet exist. She is definitely not the "Career specialist" as mentioned above. I wish there was somewhere to go so she could meet a 548 adult; her tendencies towards negative self-concept can be quite aggressive...does anyone else experience this? Of course, I am familiar in my 4w5ness... Thank you for this!! so helpful!


Hi! I’m an 36 year old INFJ-T 548 who can help. I’m an Imagination Advocate, Misfit Mentor, Cyberdelic Renaissance Woman, and more. Feel free to friend me on fb and/or email me at [email protected]. My website is under construction, but you can check it out at www.LiszBrosze.com. 😎


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## phia klise

LiszBrosze said:


> Hi! I’m an 36 year old INFJ-T 548 who can help. I’m an Imagination Advocate, Misfit Mentor, Cyberdelic Renaissance Woman, and more. Feel free to friend me on fb and/or email me at [email protected]. My website is under construction, but you can check it out at www.LiszBrosze.com. 😎


infj-t?? you obviously dont know what youre talking about


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## tanstaafl28

phia klise said:


> infj-t?? you obviously dont know what youre talking about


What do you mean by that? 






Assertive Advocate (INFJ-A) vs. Turbulent Advocate (INFJ-T) | 16Personalities







www.16personalities.com


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## tanstaafl28

CherryBl0550m said:


> This is information collected and paraphrase by PerC's madhatter. It can be found here and here. I took out the information that does not apply directly to 548.
> 
> Blue - Particularly Identifiable
> Yellow - Not like me at all
> 
> 548:
> 
> The Scholar Archetype
> 
> Somewhat introverted, intelligent, headstrong, detached, hyper introspective problem solver with strategic thinking and emotional astuteness.
> 
> *Darkest tritype- 458, 854, 584 (particularly when 4 or 5 are in charge)
> 
> 548 (or 845) is the most intense type, particularly if *sexual*. Intuitive, knowledgeable and direct. This is the type that really craves knowing what makes people tick and builds what she calls mental or internal maps that are quite astute as to what makes people do what they do. This tends to be the darkest of the tritypes because of the intensity of the 3 types (particularly if 4 or 5 is in charge). David said there is a propensity toward the grotesque, anatomical or intensely esoteric. This is the "true scholar" and the life mission is to disseminate what information is found. The blind spot is this has 3 types that can be prone to arrogance and the attachment to the internal map of what they've found can make them blind to new information as it comes in. So there will be a tendency to become fixed in their worldview or ideas particularly about people and not take in new information. So while the map is quite extraordinary that they've painted they may miss a whole region and thus not have the full picture. This is also the most cynical and the tendency to be so overly opinionated can make people turn off to their wisdom.
> An intensely original archetype with a passion to explore and to find the hidden meaning in all things.
> 
> (4)-5-8 - The Power-Seeking 4
> 4-(5)-8 - The Reactive 5
> 4-5-(8) - The Withdrawn 8
> 
> Impenetrable inner world. They are complex individuals, but they are more characterized by the way they tend to push everyone away from them.
> 
> The 548 is more mental and reserved...like the difference between 4 and 5. Both are intuitive thinkers and tend to be introverted. They are intellectuals that take action when they feel strongly about something. Others are always surprised when the 8 appears as this tritype appears quiet.
> 
> A couple of distinctions...The 458 is more emotionally expressive than the 548. The content can be very different. The 458 is more inclined to talk about their feelings about a subject of interest whereas the 548 will be more reserved and speak about tinteresting facts about a subject. The energy of the 458 is focused on the analysis of their feelings first whereas the 548 is focused on the analysis of the information first.
> 
> Social increases the need to have the critical information needed to be interesting to others-- to be wise and in the know. Sp increases the focus on the the basics... the resources one must expend to have the information.What will the cost be? All 6 variations of the 458 will avoid being ignorant and speak up for what they believe in. For example, in contrast, the sp548 will be far more reluctant to speak than the sx845 but both fear being inadequate, incompetent and powerless.
> 
> seeing your place as in the shadows is exactly how the 458 describes themselves. The 458, 468 and 478 are all truth tellers in their own way. The 468 is the one that is hyper reactive and still seeks a fair authority. The 458 and 478 are their own authorities.
> 
> the 548 tritype is the 5 most likely to appear 4-ish.
> 
> I think that 458 tritype could be mis-typed as 5, but this is much less likely than a 548 being mis-typed as a 4. It is double reactivity and resultant emotional intensity/volatility of having 4 and 8 together that clashes with the 5, even when 5 is core.
> 
> out of 458/459/451 I'd guess that both 459 and *451* would seem more 5-like (or, more accurately, be more likely to be mis-typed as 5) than 458.
> 
> (EIDB 548 tritype discussion thread: The Enneagram Institute Discussion Board - 5 4 8 Tritype ):
> 
> [Intense, especially with sx first. Independent, dark, cynical. Most eccentric, creative 5 that tends to swing between detachment and emotionality. Most 4ish 5, especially with four wing. Tough-minded, analytical 4 that is staunchly individualistic. Withdrawn, sensitive, creative 8. "Scholar" archetype if I remember correctly. Wants to know what makes people tick.
> 
> Actually, I think this 5 would be more fantasy oriented than information oriented. This would be the dreamy 5.
> 
> What I was criticising was the implication that the unique view a 5-4-8 creates is a monolithic system which doesn't change or adjust due to presumably stasis or narcissism or an inability to take criticism. Dynamism, flux and big intellectual shifts are much more likely.
> While a 5-4-8 is likely to be an intellectual narcissist, I think any criticism that they are unable to change or adjust their view is the opposite of the case because there is an intense self-criticism as well. Change and flux are constant.
> 
> first, because 5-4-8's are unlikely to think in systems (which you've now agreed with), and second, because of their sensitivity to inconsistency, constant self-criticism and tendency to change positions.
> I think there is an element of truth in the description though, in that 5-4-8's can be wilfully perverse and too arrogant to accept criticism from others. But they are likely to outwardly repudiate that criticism, and then later modify their views accordingly rather than stubbornly retain their original position.
> 
> My experience of this type is of course my only experience of any kind, so hard to be 'objective'. But here goes. I find it a complex, contradictory and often perplexing type to be. The 3 numbers pull against each other, and there is no social element(3, 6, or 9) to smooth the way. This is exacerbated if you have SO as your last stacking. Although all generalisations are suspect (including this one), it is particularly hard to generalise about this tritype. This tritype seems peculiarly subject to flux, and thus can vary greatly, or have many different real selves.
> However, dark, eccentric, creative, cynical, sensitive, scholarly are not wide of the mark (although tend to create a caricature if taken too seriously). It's true that we tend to be intensely interested in the psychology of other people, if only because we are at an utter loss to figure out ourselves much of the time. In a way, we are natural scholars but too scholarly, polymathic and restless for universities these days, which reward the careerist specialist.
> 5-4-8's are subject to rapid oscillations of emotion and thought, equally capable of preternatural strength and weakness of mind at any given moment. One minute an angel, the next a cruel tyrant. A lot of love and a lot of hate. Exquisitely sensitive but all too capable of cruelty and callousness to others. *One wants to know, in a totalizing and essential fashion, know poetically but know precisely as well, but never quite gets there.*
> 
> We are paradox-mongers, live in metaphor, and are always trying to find new ways to say and see things (and hence are often pretentious) - i.e. iconoclasts - but can be as pedantic, systematic and anally analytical as anyone - i.e. using our 5-ness to beat others at their own games when they have underestimated us as loose, kooky or not with it.
> 5-4-8's have a predisposition to religion and philosophy, especially pessimistic and melancholic strains, but a commensurate disappointment with the lack of answers that satisfy us and a concomitant melancholy.
> 
> I would caution against such a romanticized view of this tritype as it may defeat the value of knowing one’s type. I would disagree with a lot of the first things you said about this combination – “many real selves” and “subject to flux”. I find a kind of coherency in that here you’ve got two reactive types (4,8) two rejection (5,8) two withdrawn (4,5) and three very independent, very resistant to anything that originates outside itself, and not particularly concerned with objectivity, consistency, or interested in being accessible in any way. The greatest fluctuation I feel is between feeling incredibly hard and strong to being very self-conscious and inept. Strong and Vulnerable are my two modes, brought out when I feel I am unable to make that leap across the fragments of words and space between myself and someone I have an interest in.


I'm a 5w6 So/Sx 584 ENTP. Love metaphors, paradoxes, and analogies. I seem to have excellent cognitive dissonance. I see the bigger picture and love to do research.


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## vitt0r

SuzFisher said:


> From a 4w5 so/sx (451) Mama:
> I am trying to raise (and hopefully not traumatize) my 5w4 sx/so (548) INTP daughter, age 13; this was extremely helpful! Her creativity is boundless...but so is her nihilistic world view (and in 2020, who can really argue with this sometimes?!?)... "one minute an angel; the next a cruel tyrant..." Uh. yes. And school--ugh. She needs to be in some other type of program of which does not yet exist. She is definitely not the "Career specialist" as mentioned above. I wish there was somewhere to go so she could meet a 548 adult; her tendencies towards negative self-concept can be quite aggressive...does anyone else experience this? Of course, I am familiar in my 4w5ness... Thank you for this!! so helpful!


Hi, hey

Intp, 5w4 458 here. I'm adulting quite enough, I guess... I'm 26 and it should be more simple than anything. Love her, accept her, remember to show her that, and guarantee a place for her to come back when she needs. Maybe it's literal, or not. But a bridge to you. 13 is very young. INTPing is a long way still. I think is clear that you understand from where she's coming, at least when you said that school is not for her. 

I had a hard turbulent relationship with school myself, it's hell for us. You can assume that she is counting the years for it to be over. I have done it since her age. And not to leave you without something more solid, this site helps a lot with some tools and ways to deal better. INTP - The INTP Experience
It helped me a lot and is a place that i always come back to read it again and picks something new every time.

Hope I could help or at least give you some path to find that

cheers


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## hollyhayes600

phia klise said:


> infj-t?? you obviously dont know what youre talking about


Very different. I am an INTJ 548; my boyfriend was an ENFP 458, and I know another ENFP who's an 8 (I don't know his tritype). They are like two completely different types. It's like they're not even both ENFPs.


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## Aliensemble

hollyhayes600 said:


> Very different. I am an INTJ 548; my boyfriend was an ENFP 458, and I know another ENFP who's an 8 (I don't know his tritype). They are like two completely different types. It's like they're not even both ENFPs.


I’m an INTJ 458! Wanna be friends?


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## Voltage

CherryBl0550m said:


> We are paradox-mongers, live in metaphor, and are always trying to find new ways to say and see things (and hence are often pretentious) - i.e. iconoclasts - but can be as pedantic, systematic and anally analytical as anyone - i.e. using our 5-ness to beat others at their own games when they have underestimated us as loose, kooky or not with it.
> 5-4-8's have a predisposition to religion and philosophy, especially pessimistic and melancholic strains, but a commensurate disappointment with the lack of answers that satisfy us and a concomitant melancholy.
> 
> I would caution against such a romanticized view of this tritype as it may defeat the value of knowing one’s type. I would disagree with a lot of the first things you said about this combination – “many real selves” and “subject to flux”. I find a kind of coherency in that here you’ve got two reactive types (4,8) two rejection (5,8) two withdrawn (4,5) and three very independent, very resistant to anything that originates outside itself, and not particularly concerned with objectivity, consistency, or interested in being accessible in any way. The greatest fluctuation I feel is between feeling incredibly hard and strong to being very self-conscious and inept. Strong and Vulnerable are my two modes, brought out when I feel I am unable to make that leap across the fragments of words and space between myself and someone I have an interest in.


All very good information and I absolutely concur that it is accurate. However, I feel the need to highlight one thing. The apparent disconnect between the poster above and yourself with “many real selves” and “subject to flux”, are due to a real difference. Likewise, "very resistant to anything that originates outside itself, and not particularly concerned with objectivity, consistency, or interested in being accessible in any way" leaves a slight bitter taste in my mouth, as this in fact seems a little off. 

My point is that the discrepancy here seems entirely due to instinctual stacking. I am an sx/so myself, and I believe the author of the excerpt you disagreed with would've been also. Which means there is no actual discrepancy here; at least in so far as everybody is correct and has their types right, which is important, because we can see the slight change in flavour when the instincts vary.

I can see the sx/sp in you, and how that causes “many real selves” and “subject to flux” to leave a bitter taste. Because it's a function of the SO instinct. These many real selves in the 548/584 (unsure which of these I am, by the way) are in fact a strategic construction born of the 5-8 combination - obviously, as a 4, we know our true selves within us. But we can vary our image to attain a strategic advantage, especially in the social sphere. So that's that.

"very resistant to anything that originates outside itself, and not particularly concerned with objectivity, consistency, or interested in being accessible in any way" doesnt strike true to me (especially consistency, being an INTP) because these are considerations we must make when we tackle the social realm. Maybe it's not a natural alignment for our sort, but our instincts do compel us to be concerned with being objective and being accessible; we are self-preservation blind, and therefore rely on the social realm as a fallback for our longevity and survival. This is how we measure our standing. 

Also, unconcerned with objectivity perhaps even does strike me as odd. Really? Maybe this does mean my 8 is above my 4 lol (not what I believed)


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## qwertyburty

CherryBl0550m said:


> This is information collected and paraphrase by PerC's madhatter. It can be found here and here. I took out the information that does not apply directly to 548.
> 
> Blue - Particularly Identifiable
> Yellow - Not like me at all
> 
> 548:
> 
> The Scholar Archetype
> 
> Somewhat introverted, intelligent, headstrong, detached, hyper introspective problem solver with strategic thinking and emotional astuteness.
> 
> *Darkest tritype- 458, 854, 584 (particularly when 4 or 5 are in charge)
> 
> 548 (or 845) is the most intense type, particularly if *sexual*. Intuitive, knowledgeable and direct. This is the type that really craves knowing what makes people tick and builds what she calls mental or internal maps that are quite astute as to what makes people do what they do. This tends to be the darkest of the tritypes because of the intensity of the 3 types (particularly if 4 or 5 is in charge). David said there is a propensity toward the grotesque, anatomical or intensely esoteric. This is the "true scholar" and the life mission is to disseminate what information is found. The blind spot is this has 3 types that can be prone to arrogance and the attachment to the internal map of what they've found can make them blind to new information as it comes in. So there will be a tendency to become fixed in their worldview or ideas particularly about people and not take in new information. So while the map is quite extraordinary that they've painted they may miss a whole region and thus not have the full picture. This is also the most cynical and the tendency to be so overly opinionated can make people turn off to their wisdom.
> An intensely original archetype with a passion to explore and to find the hidden meaning in all things.
> 
> (4)-5-8 - The Power-Seeking 4
> 4-(5)-8 - The Reactive 5
> 4-5-(8) - The Withdrawn 8
> 
> Impenetrable inner world. They are complex individuals, but they are more characterized by the way they tend to push everyone away from them.
> 
> The 548 is more mental and reserved...like the difference between 4 and 5. Both are intuitive thinkers and tend to be introverted. They are intellectuals that take action when they feel strongly about something. Others are always surprised when the 8 appears as this tritype appears quiet.
> 
> A couple of distinctions...The 458 is more emotionally expressive than the 548. The content can be very different. The 458 is more inclined to talk about their feelings about a subject of interest whereas the 548 will be more reserved and speak about tinteresting facts about a subject. The energy of the 458 is focused on the analysis of their feelings first whereas the 548 is focused on the analysis of the information first.
> 
> Social increases the need to have the critical information needed to be interesting to others-- to be wise and in the know. Sp increases the focus on the the basics... the resources one must expend to have the information.What will the cost be? All 6 variations of the 458 will avoid being ignorant and speak up for what they believe in. For example, in contrast, the sp548 will be far more reluctant to speak than the sx845 but both fear being inadequate, incompetent and powerless.
> 
> seeing your place as in the shadows is exactly how the 458 describes themselves. The 458, 468 and 478 are all truth tellers in their own way. The 468 is the one that is hyper reactive and still seeks a fair authority. The 458 and 478 are their own authorities.
> 
> the 548 tritype is the 5 most likely to appear 4-ish.
> 
> I think that 458 tritype could be mis-typed as 5, but this is much less likely than a 548 being mis-typed as a 4. It is double reactivity and resultant emotional intensity/volatility of having 4 and 8 together that clashes with the 5, even when 5 is core.
> 
> out of 458/459/451 I'd guess that both 459 and *451* would seem more 5-like (or, more accurately, be more likely to be mis-typed as 5) than 458.
> 
> (EIDB 548 tritype discussion thread: The Enneagram Institute Discussion Board - 5 4 8 Tritype ):
> 
> [Intense, especially with sx first. Independent, dark, cynical. Most eccentric, creative 5 that tends to swing between detachment and emotionality. Most 4ish 5, especially with four wing. Tough-minded, analytical 4 that is staunchly individualistic. Withdrawn, sensitive, creative 8. "Scholar" archetype if I remember correctly. Wants to know what makes people tick.
> 
> Actually, I think this 5 would be more fantasy oriented than information oriented. This would be the dreamy 5.
> 
> What I was criticising was the implication that the unique view a 5-4-8 creates is a monolithic system which doesn't change or adjust due to presumably stasis or narcissism or an inability to take criticism. Dynamism, flux and big intellectual shifts are much more likely.
> While a 5-4-8 is likely to be an intellectual narcissist, I think any criticism that they are unable to change or adjust their view is the opposite of the case because there is an intense self-criticism as well. Change and flux are constant.
> 
> first, because 5-4-8's are unlikely to think in systems (which you've now agreed with), and second, because of their sensitivity to inconsistency, constant self-criticism and tendency to change positions.
> I think there is an element of truth in the description though, in that 5-4-8's can be wilfully perverse and too arrogant to accept criticism from others. But they are likely to outwardly repudiate that criticism, and then later modify their views accordingly rather than stubbornly retain their original position.
> 
> My experience of this type is of course my only experience of any kind, so hard to be 'objective'. But here goes. I find it a complex, contradictory and often perplexing type to be. The 3 numbers pull against each other, and there is no social element(3, 6, or 9) to smooth the way. This is exacerbated if you have SO as your last stacking. Although all generalisations are suspect (including this one), it is particularly hard to generalise about this tritype. This tritype seems peculiarly subject to flux, and thus can vary greatly, or have many different real selves.
> However, dark, eccentric, creative, cynical, sensitive, scholarly are not wide of the mark (although tend to create a caricature if taken too seriously). It's true that we tend to be intensely interested in the psychology of other people, if only because we are at an utter loss to figure out ourselves much of the time. In a way, we are natural scholars but too scholarly, polymathic and restless for universities these days, which reward the careerist specialist.
> 5-4-8's are subject to rapid oscillations of emotion and thought, equally capable of preternatural strength and weakness of mind at any given moment. One minute an angel, the next a cruel tyrant. A lot of love and a lot of hate. Exquisitely sensitive but all too capable of cruelty and callousness to others. *One wants to know, in a totalizing and essential fashion, know poetically but know precisely as well, but never quite gets there.*
> 
> We are paradox-mongers, live in metaphor, and are always trying to find new ways to say and see things (and hence are often pretentious) - i.e. iconoclasts - but can be as pedantic, systematic and anally analytical as anyone - i.e. using our 5-ness to beat others at their own games when they have underestimated us as loose, kooky or not with it.
> 5-4-8's have a predisposition to religion and philosophy, especially pessimistic and melancholic strains, but a commensurate disappointment with the lack of answers that satisfy us and a concomitant melancholy.
> 
> I would caution against such a romanticized view of this tritype as it may defeat the value of knowing one’s type. I would disagree with a lot of the first things you said about this combination – “many real selves” and “subject to flux”. I find a kind of coherency in that here you’ve got two reactive types (4,8) two rejection (5,8) two withdrawn (4,5) and three very independent, very resistant to anything that originates outside itself, and not particularly concerned with objectivity, consistency, or interested in being accessible in any way. The greatest fluctuation I feel is between feeling incredibly hard and strong to being very self-conscious and inept. Strong and Vulnerable are my two modes, brought out when I feel I am unable to make that leap across the fragments of words and space between myself and someone I have an interest in.


Hell of a description. I’m a 548, and this^ is fucking awesome.

In good 4-8 fashion, I’d advocate for everyone to accept their own internal truth, even when others challenge you on it. The search for personality types can get fucking muddy, so be careful—but above all, be courageous.


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