# Type the Abstract Concept



## Lord Fenix Wulfheart (Aug 18, 2015)

Let's play a game. You come up with an abstract concept, flavored by some kind of situation or details about it to help keep it clear what is being talked about specifically. Then the person below you types your concept, and we can discuss it back and forth if we wish. Whether it is discussed or not, though, be sure to include another concept of your own to keep it going!

Examples:

"Military Logic", includes regulations and procedures and the chain of command concept. I would say it strikes me as SeTeTi with Fi devaluing. Maybe SLE? And when I see people succeed at a military career but be deeply disturbed by its ethics and stuff, I think I am looking at LSEs. So that makes sense I think. I know I wanted to be in the military. My damn asthma disqualified me. -_-

"Long Term Illness Coping", including anything from Diabetes to Cancer that could kill you at any moment. I think coping with this, which I hear often relies on being supported by loved ones, is a Fi activity. Its about close ones, ethics of relations. Having and needing people. Being instilled with hope could also point to Ni, by talking about what the future will hold, and Ne, with hard realism about what will probably happen but showing the options and ways to deal with it. So FiNeNi, EII a good type?


All right, for reals now. Here is my topic for y'all: "Boy Scout's Guidelines", including the way badges are earned and rank awarding, how they teach youths, the exclusionary policies, and the community's place in this structure.


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

I had to look up the Scout Oath and Law:



> On my honor I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law; to help other people at all times; to keep myself physically strong, mentally awake, and morally straight.





> A Scout is trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent.


The ranking and exclusionary policies say aristocracy to me, a system of subordination and hierarchy, Beta or Delta, and because the oath stresses the importance of physical well-being, clean and peaceful living, and following a specific moral code, I'm going to say it seems an overall Delta ST mentality.

"Spoken Word Performance," including word play and reciting poetry in front of an audience with a focus on intonation, inflection, and overall impact of speech. (Am I missing the point, though.)


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## owlet (May 7, 2010)

lets mosey said:


> "Spoken Word Performance," including word play and reciting poetry in front of an audience with a focus on intonation, inflection, and overall impact of speech. (Am I missing the point, though.)


I think the idea of reciting poetry to an audience with a focus on the technical side of the performance (the art of the rhetoric, I guess?) seems like it would be Ti/Fe in some form. I got this from Wikipedia:


> *Spoken word* is an oral art that focuses on the aesthetics of word play and intonation and voice inflection. It is a 'catchall' that includes any kind of poetry recited aloud, including hip-hop, jazz poetry, poetry slams, traditional poetry readings and can include comedy routines and 'prose monologues'.


Which makes me think it's more on the Ne/Si end of things. I could see it being either Alpha or Delta, to be honest, although the structure behind it comes across as more Ti than Fi overall.

I'll go for personality theory, because that was one of the first things to pop into my head when I saw the title!


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

owlet said:


> I think the idea of reciting poetry to an audience with a focus on the technical side of the performance (the art of the rhetoric, I guess?) seems like it would be Ti/Fe in some form.
> 
> Which makes me think it's more on the Ne/Si end of things. I could see it being either Alpha or Delta, to be honest, although the structure behind it comes across as more Ti than Fi overall.


I think it means to make an emotional impact with the figurative and somewhat more literal impact of words, so I'm not sure I see Delta although that's not to say performances and poets can't individually be Delta.



> I'll go for personality theory, because that was one of the first things to pop into my head when I saw the title!


I'll just say Delta NF as a whole because it means to understand people as individuals but also as parts of a whole and how those parts interact and transform one another. Understanding breeds acceptance and growth and harmonious relationships. That's not pointing out specific theories like socionics that may be more on the Ti rather than Fi side of things.

Uh, how about, "Religious Asceticism," including the vows and practices that monks and nuns across several religions choose to uphold.


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## Tad Cooper (Apr 10, 2010)

Religious Asceticism seems Fe, maybe with Ni? Creating a sense of unity through spiritual practice, but working for something greater and towards a solid end goal? That's just the Christian sort though. For monks/nuns of other religions it differs, such as certain Buddhist monks living purely for the present, not for the end goal of heaven, but to be in touch with the world around them. That seems more Si. 
So Si/Ni and Fe?

The class system, West Vs East?


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## Lord Fenix Wulfheart (Aug 18, 2015)

lets mosey said:


> The ranking and exclusionary policies say aristocracy to me, a system of subordination and hierarchy, Beta or Delta, and because the oath stresses the importance of physical well-being, clean and peaceful living, and following a specific moral code, I'm going to say it seems an overall Delta ST mentality.


I agree, that was my take almost exactly! 



lets mosey said:


> "Spoken Word Performance," including word play and reciting poetry in front of an audience with a focus on intonation, inflection, and overall impact of speech. (Am I missing the point, though.)


No, you got the point just fine! Excellent addition, thank you.

I am going to say that spoken word performance in that manner is very focused on two things. The first is Fe, although it could be Te sometimes. It is about external world effects in a judgment axis. The other is on the structure, the overall way things are put together, which strikes me as Ne. So a very NeFe pass time is my guess.


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## Lord Fenix Wulfheart (Aug 18, 2015)

Tad Cooper said:


> Religious Asceticism seems Fe, maybe with Ni? Creating a sense of unity through spiritual practice, but working for something greater and towards a solid end goal? That's just the Christian sort though. For monks/nuns of other religions it differs, such as certain Buddhist monks living purely for the present, not for the end goal of heaven, but to be in touch with the world around them. That seems more Si.
> So Si/Ni and Fe?


I agree that it seems Pi in general, and coincidentally bouts of asceticism has been a huge part of my life for many years  



Tad Cooper said:


> The class system, West Vs East?


I am going to guess that the West's class system, focused as it is on building things up and creating more and more and more while those in charge of the creating inflate to the top (ready to burst!) is basically Evolution, that is Process types rather than Result. It spans the Quadras. I will say that the stultification of the way things are done strikes me as Te overall, a focus on logical results but achieved in a Process kind of way. The East, I unfortunately do not know enough about! Could someone else comment on that, perhaps explain how classes work in the East?

Let's keep this fire burning, my darlings! Let's try "The Cold War", including themes of fear and despair, the lack of knowing what the future holds, the undercurrent of anger, and the doom that lingered over us all!


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## To_august (Oct 13, 2013)

Lord Fenix Wulfheart said:


> Let's keep this fire burning, my darlings! Let's try "The Cold War", including themes of fear and despair, the lack of knowing what the future holds, the undercurrent of anger, and the doom that lingered over us all!


Cold War seems to be Se-Ni theme. Augmenting one's protective and invasive means to protect one's territory and threaten the opponent combined with need to pay attention to timing to understand when to strike or not to strike, building the tension. Also Te, 'cause it resulted in spurred technology development.

"Wage slavery", binding dependency of one's survival on income and criticism of exploitation.


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

"Wage Slavery," seems a criticism of Te work and enterprise, social divisions, and restrictions on personal pursuits, so I'll say the framing of the issue strikes me as Alpha, although less reactive criticisms of exploitation perpetuated by the system strike me as Fi. That's assuming I understand the idea.

"Reincarnation," including the karmic cycle and the accumulation of good and bad deeds and eventual breaking of the chain.


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## Tad Cooper (Apr 10, 2010)

Lord Fenix Wulfheart said:


> I agree that it seems Pi in general, and coincidentally bouts of asceticism has been a huge part of my life for many years
> 
> I am going to guess that the West's class system, focused as it is on building things up and creating more and more and more while those in charge of the creating inflate to the top (ready to burst!) is basically Evolution, that is Process types rather than Result. It spans the Quadras. I will say that the stultification of the way things are done strikes me as Te overall, a focus on logical results but achieved in a Process kind of way. The East, I unfortunately do not know enough about! Could someone else comment on that, perhaps explain how classes work in the East?
> 
> Let's keep this fire burning, my darlings! Let's try "The Cold War", including themes of fear and despair, the lack of knowing what the future holds, the undercurrent of anger, and the doom that lingered over us all!


(Do tell how it's been in your life?)

That makes a lot of sense!! The Eastern class system is more like the caste system or the four tiered system of feudal Japan  Similar but the philosophy behind it is different! (Functional and also spiritual, such as reincarnation)



lets mosey said:


> "Wage Slavery," seems a criticism of Te work and enterprise, social divisions, and restrictions on personal pursuits, so I'll say the framing of the issue strikes me as Alpha, although less reactive criticisms of exploitation perpetuated by the system strike me as Fi. That's assuming I understand the idea.
> 
> "Reincarnation," including the karmic cycle and the accumulation of good and bad deeds and eventual breaking of the chain.


Ni/Te? Seeing past an end point, or to that end point, and fitting it into an external system? I think it would depend on the religion with that though, as the ideas behind reincarnation can differ a bit...

The government of the West?


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## owlet (May 7, 2010)

Tad Cooper said:


> The government of the West?


You mean the structure of the Western governments? That kind of depends on the country, so I'll go for 'Democracy', which I think might be an Fe ideology. (If other people want to take other types of government, that would be interesting!)

I'll say the Expressionist movement


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

@owlet If I understand the movement correctly, the intent is to portray or induce emotional states through subjective interpretations of the world/internal imagery, so I'll say Fe and introverted perception, Si/Ni depending on the imagery.

How about minimalism, reducing an object to its essential parts to reveal its core nature, simplicity as an aesthetic and way of life.


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## Lord Fenix Wulfheart (Aug 18, 2015)

To_august said:


> Cold War seems to be Se-Ni theme. Augmenting one's protective and invasive means to protect one's territory and threaten the opponent combined with need to pay attention to timing to understand when to strike or not to strike, building the tension. Also Te, 'cause it resulted in spurred technology development.


Could we say that we found _comfort_ in the development, the Te aspects, and thus it was largely Te seeking that led to desiring the developments? We can then be more specific of the types that best fit that concept.


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## Lord Fenix Wulfheart (Aug 18, 2015)

lets mosey said:


> "Wage Slavery," seems a criticism of Te work and enterprise, social divisions, and restrictions on personal pursuits, so I'll say the framing of the issue strikes me as Alpha, although less reactive criticisms of exploitation perpetuated by the system strike me as Fi. That's assuming I understand the idea.


Agreed. I will also say that I think that the Beta angle of it is the people that look at the existing system and seek to find a way to use it just enough to circumvent problems, such as those that try to work to earn enough money to break free and live separate from that system, for example. The millionaire that cashes out and sells his successful business so he can live the rest of his life jetsetting around the world and having a great time could be a Beta sentiment. It is about striving to "get yours" out of the system, since the system isn't going anywhere at least for right now. That last is Se more than Ni of course.


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## Lord Fenix Wulfheart (Aug 18, 2015)

Tad Cooper said:


> (Do tell how it's been in your life?)


Greatly calming. These days, I can reach emotional peace in about 5 seconds of meditation with no stressors around me, and in 10 to 150 seconds when distractions abound depending on severity. I am very good at descending into a place of serenity when I wish, and few stressors are severe enough to prevent me from doing so. I just stick my arms out, straighten my spine, breathe in and then out, and then sort of...center my consciousness into the center of my skull somehow? I don't know how to word the last part, it is like I turn my eyes from the outer world to my inner world and everything else is just gone, and all that there is the feeling inside my mind and my heart. It can be difficult to catch my attention when I am doing this, especially if I have been doing so for a long while 



Tad Cooper said:


> That makes a lot of sense!! The Eastern class system is more like the caste system or the four tiered system of feudal Japan  Similar but the philosophy behind it is different! (Functional and also spiritual, such as reincarnation)


In that case, I would place the caste system as very Fi in nature. Your place is a part of you, and you are where you are because of the sum total of you. The whole idea of reincarnation is very Static. "You simply are, and all that you have ever done or will ever do is a result of your being in this way."

It also strikes me as possibly Ne devaluing - the potential for growth is not intrinsic, not accepted. You are who you are. You must WORK to change anything in this world, and even then it changes only when you DIE. Your very nature is only going to change once it is all over and you reflect on things. It seems Decisive to me. Gamma Statics?


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## Lord Fenix Wulfheart (Aug 18, 2015)

lets mosey said:


> @owlet If I understand the movement correctly, the intent is to portray or induce emotional states through subjective interpretations of the world/internal imagery, so I'll say Fe and introverted perception, Si/Ni depending on the imagery.
> 
> How about minimalism, reducing an object to its essential parts to reveal its core nature, simplicity as an aesthetic and way of life.


Minimalism strikes me as Result type in nature, and also deductive. Probably Ti if you are wanting to understand things by reduction, and Te if you are seeking to simplify the process of getting stuff done by making things less complicated. I'd say Ti seems overall more reductionist than Te, but I am unsure how to explain why. ><

Preferring simplicity could be related to being IJ Temperament.


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## Lord Fenix Wulfheart (Aug 18, 2015)

owlet said:


> I'll say the Expressionist movement


Thank you for bringing this up. I had never heard of this before, and I am quickly learning to love this art style!!










Who does she dance so longingly for? *heart breaking*



Whew, OK, my slew of responses are over ><


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## To_august (Oct 13, 2013)

Lord Fenix Wulfheart said:


> Could we say that we found _comfort_ in the development, the Te aspects, and thus it was largely Te seeking that led to desiring the developments? We can then be more specific of the types that best fit that concept.


I'd say the reason was the fear that the other party would be the first to invent whatever was important at the time and gain the upper hand, rather than desire for tech development or seeking efficiency in itself. So I wouldn't attribute it to seeking Te.


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## owlet (May 7, 2010)

@Lord Fenix Wulfheart I'm glad you liked the style - I'm studying it currently for an essay based around expressionist horror films, so focusing on The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari which had expressionist sets like this:










I noticed there hasn't been another concept put forward to vibe, so I thought maybe the idea of seasonal holidays like Christmas, if anyone wants to have a go at that!


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## Tad Cooper (Apr 10, 2010)

Lord Fenix Wulfheart said:


> Greatly calming. These days, I can reach emotional peace in about 5 seconds of meditation with no stressors around me, and in 10 to 150 seconds when distractions abound depending on severity. I am very good at descending into a place of serenity when I wish, and few stressors are severe enough to prevent me from doing so. I just stick my arms out, straighten my spine, breathe in and then out, and then sort of...center my consciousness into the center of my skull somehow? I don't know how to word the last part, it is like I turn my eyes from the outer world to my inner world and everything else is just gone, and all that there is the feeling inside my mind and my heart. It can be difficult to catch my attention when I am doing this, especially if I have been doing so for a long while
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow, how did you learn to do that? That sounds very difficult and useful...Does it help with stress?
I'd agree with Fi! I didnt think about Ne with it...interesting...


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