# What's Valued in the Wake of Coronachan?



## MonarK (Jul 27, 2018)

As a followup to my prior thread on emergency work, what companies and products do you think will receive a spike in business once the Coronavirus runs its course? Once stock prices begin to rise again, I have plans to limit my spending in the market and shift it over to a side-business. So PerC, what sort of goods or services would be desirable in the coming months--one that any startup wannabe can provide himself or through a manufacturer?


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## letsrunlikecrazy (Sep 21, 2015)

I think people will flock to movie theaters and go on cruises. They will want to dine out and travel. That is, if they have any money...


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## 74893H (Dec 27, 2017)

I guess it's a given, but toilet paper companies are gonna be having the time of their lives for a while.


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## Dalien (Jul 21, 2010)

Helendleof Loc said:


> I guess it's a given, but toilet paper companies are gonna be having the time of their lives for a while.


As I read this I was lol-ing hard, but you’re probably right! :shocked:


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## Dalien (Jul 21, 2010)

letsrunlikecrazy said:


> I think people will flock to movie theaters and go on cruises. They will want to dine out and travel. That is, if they have any money...


Movies theaters sure.
Cruises? Wouldn’t most or a lot of people be leery of this? 

https://www.businessinsider.com/cru...d-19-cases-during-coronavirus-pandemic-2020-4

But then this...

https://www.businessinsider.com/cru...ncreasing-for-2021-despite-coronavirus-2020-4

Do people just like to dare?
Interesting.


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## MonarK (Jul 27, 2018)

Dalien said:


> Movies theaters sure.
> Cruises? Wouldn’t most or a lot of people be leery of this?
> 
> https://www.businessinsider.com/cru...d-19-cases-during-coronavirus-pandemic-2020-4
> ...





letsrunlikecrazy said:


> I think people will flock to movie theaters and go on cruises. They will want to dine out and travel. That is, if they have any money...


Cruises and airlines were prime choices of stock and still are--it's just that with Sanders dropping out and the stimulus package coming into effect, the market's risen some. Since I already have dumped so much in the market in the past few weeks, I'm looking at possibly thrifting since I'm lacking the money to do full-on liquidations.


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## Handsome Dyke (Oct 4, 2012)

I just read an article about virtual dating becoming a thing.


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## angelfish (Feb 17, 2011)

What's up with the diminutive honorific? It's been tugging on my brain cells every time I see the thread name pop up. 

I'm sorry to say I may not have much insight into the topic, aside from that I think we are going to see a lot of people relying more heavily on remote and health-protective goods and services even as areas re-open. The guidance at this point seems to heavily favor very slow re-opening, and I think people will continue to be leery at least until we get a vaccination in play but maybe even beyond then. All of our lives have been drastically impacted by this and even though we may be eager to reclaim our favorite spots we will also have become accustomed to using virtual and remote services that we really didn't before. So I think delivery, curbside pickup, all virtual communications services, virtual education and training (I just read the College Board is considering moving the SAT to virtual), hygiene products, cleaning products and services, and more will continue to be more valued. You could definitely make some money right this moment arranging food delivery from grocery stores if you got something up and running quickly. My local groceries don't have pickup or delivery available until _next week_ because they are so booked.


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## The Last (Apr 19, 2020)

Everyone is freaking out over oil right now. I'm not a great investor, but it's just something to be aware of.


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## MonarK (Jul 27, 2018)

The Last said:


> Everyone is freaking out over oil right now. I'm not a great investor, but it's just something to be aware of.


Exxon, ConocoPhillips, they've all been good picks for my portfolio. Any more secret info outside of the stock market?


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## beth x (Mar 4, 2010)

As I've gone to and fro from shopping I've been looking at what people are wearing. I would never thought a day would come when I would say ooooh they are nice pyjama, trackies, yoga pant thingies. 

Gaming. I bought a new gaming console and while I was doing it paypal had a spike and crashed and the order was cancelled. While I was looking around I noticed everywhere were running low on stock. I ordered from the UK for a couple of games as prices were rising here. 

Bedding - if you're gonna spend more time in bed you start to notice your sheets are looking a little threadbare. 

Gardening - as people start getting more and more afraid whethersome arsehole might sneeze or cough on them at the green grocer they start to ponder getting some vegies up and running now they have the time. 

DYI - all those things you put off, fixing that ugly hole in the wall you made while moving a cupboard around, the cubby house out the back that's looking a little dodgy and rickety while the kids are playing on it, that shelf you need in the pantry/laundry to put all those supplies you hoarded (you bastard!).

Anything to do with IT - people were/are more and more turning to other means of socialising- since their gigs got cancelled their holidays too.


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## The red spirit (Sep 29, 2015)

beth x said:


> Gaming. I bought a new gaming console and while I was doing it paypal had a spike and crashed and the order was cancelled. While I was looking around I noticed everywhere were running low on stock. I ordered from the UK for a couple of games as prices were rising here.
> 
> Anything to do with IT - people were/are more and more turning to other means of socialising- since their gigs got cancelled their holidays too.


I agree with your insights, but I must mention that pretty much any computer hardware will be highly negatively affected by manufacturing shortages and lower output, despite higher demand. Mostly due to the fact that most of that stuff is manufactured in China. Also many computer hardware companies are also engineering stuff in China too. That's pretty much any motherboard, graphics card manufacturer ever, most of RAM, most storage manufacturers. I'm frankly surprised that tech prices haven't soared yet.


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## beth x (Mar 4, 2010)

The red spirit said:


> I agree with your insights, but I must mention that pretty much any computer hardware will be highly negatively affected by manufacturing shortages and lower output, despite higher demand. Mostly due to the fact that most of that stuff is manufactured in China. Also many computer hardware companies are also engineering stuff in China too. That's pretty much any motherboard, graphics card manufacturer ever, most of RAM, most storage manufacturers. I'm frankly surprised that tech prices haven't soared yet.


Petrol prices have dropped the economy is pooped it's pants and anyone who tries to price gouge on things here are heavily criticised as everybody is suffering (unless they are in any trades that are needed right now in these specific times and they suffer in a different way). People hate profiteerers when they are suffering.


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## The red spirit (Sep 29, 2015)

beth x said:


> Petrol prices have dropped the economy is pooped it's pants and anyone who tries to price gouge on things here are heavily criticised as everybody is suffering (unless they are in any trades that are needed right now in these specific times and they suffer in a different way). People hate profiteerers when they are suffering.


Mah, I don't really see a thing about crashing economy at least where I live. In fact, quarantine is gradually ending. Next week, many things will be open again. People don't really seem to suffer either (except some special cases), many are just experiencing withdrawal syndromes from abbandonning spoiled lifestyle. The corona itself had very little effect, despite all news and talks (or perhaps they did a good job containing it).

People hate price gouging despite the times, really. Just go to comment sections about Apple and there will be lots of haters of them, even from the 90s.

As to USA, well very likely it is crashing now. Guess why? Greed it was and lack of stability. Just think about it as cutting out excess industries. Low petrol prices are good and in financial problem there will be more empathy and better suited products for such lifestyle. Ain't anything to worry about if you have a right attitude. Let's not forget that Americans make much more money than many people in other countries and could afford to waste many resources at their will.


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## angelfish (Feb 17, 2011)

The red spirit said:


> Mah, I don't really see a thing about crashing economy at least where I live. In fact, quarantine is gradually ending. Next week, many things will be open again. People don't really seem to suffer either (except some special cases), many are just experiencing withdrawal syndromes from abbandonning spoiled lifestyle. The corona itself had very little effect, despite all news and talks (or perhaps they did a good job containing it). [...] As to USA, well very likely it is crashing now.


I'm in the US presently. As often is the case here, it is drastically different from region to region because of very different population densities, cultures, and political views across the country. There are some places that have already drastically crashed and are starting to recover - mainly New York City - and other major cities that are considered potential new "hot spots" (LA, Chicago, Boston). Mostly these are big metropolitan areas with high population densities where it is harder to control spread. Unfortunately, the last city I lived in is still projected to be weeks away from peak, and the state is lifting restrictions regardless. I understand that they are attempting to soften the economic blow, but I deeply disagree with their way of doing so. They are already dealing with vastly reduced public services due to the amount of sick or exposed individuals. On the other hand, I am grateful to say that where I am presently is doing all right. The state governor has taken excellent precautions and has caught a lot of flak for it from certain groups, but we are expected to have gotten through our worst week and should now be plateauing, if not soon seeing a decline.


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## The red spirit (Sep 29, 2015)

angelfish said:


> I'm in the US presently. As often is the case here, it is drastically different from region to region because of very different population densities, cultures, and political views across the country. There are some places that have already drastically crashed and are starting to recover - mainly New York City - and other major cities that are considered potential new "hot spots" (LA, Chicago, Boston). Mostly these are big metropolitan areas with high population densities where it is harder to control spread. Unfortunately, the last city I lived in is still projected to be weeks away from peak, and the state is lifting restrictions regardless. I understand that they are attempting to soften the economic blow, but I deeply disagree with their way of doing so. They are already dealing with vastly reduced public services due to the amount of sick or exposed individuals. On the other hand, I am grateful to say that where I am presently is doing all right. The state governor has taken excellent precautions and has caught a lot of flak for it from certain groups, but we are expected to have gotten through our worst week and should now be plateauing, if not soon seeing a decline.


That sounds pretty good, but tell me as outside, what does it exactly mean that USA will have a recession? I can only have a vague idea and for that reason I want to ask some specific examples. I know that poorer people, who struggled will be hit harder and they will have problem, but that would be a rather normal problem even without corona. I wanna know what in your opinion will happen to let's say to an average citizen, who wasn't on the low end of society. 

From what I hear there is a crash of stock market, but to my limited understanding that just means that some fat cats with shit ton of money to spare will lose it, which is a minor problem even for them as they don't struggle to get food, shelter, clothes and even to waste some on their hobbies.

It doesn't look that prices of everything soared, some products are affected, but generally it's rather easy to avoid them yet. USA is facing a massive worker firing problem, but then again if that's true government should be able to make some regulations to support them. Then the workers that only face minor inconveniences will work from home, they won't really face any great problems. So the only potential issue is well government itself and their inability to manage finances and contain diseases. All that could fuck up manufacturing of some goods, but then again I can't remember the last time I bought anything American. America is irrelevant in any essential good business on worldwide scale. There may be a higher need for imported good for USA, that's it. Sure, USU will some GDP, but that doesn't mean too much in real life.

So, as I understand, the only truly big problem is temporary unemployment and then temporary higher issues to get employed in market, that may not need so many employers. That means, that USA never needed to work so much and thus economy only worked due to artificial percepted needs of citizen rather than real needs aka some luxury products will disappear for a while and there is nothing to worry about, just some nice luxury detox for everyone.


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## hal0hal0 (Sep 1, 2012)

Weeeelllll... In spite of stay at home orders, plenty of patients still needing their life-saving Adderall  and bitching that I'm out of X mg (well, why don't you tell all these other patients they need to stop taking so much?).

Had one person drop of a Concerta (methylphenidate Rx) while wearing a fuckin' gas mask, like really?


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## angelfish (Feb 17, 2011)

The red spirit said:


> That sounds pretty good, but tell me as outside, what does it exactly mean that USA will have a recession? I can only have a vague idea and for that reason I want to ask some specific examples. I know that poorer people, who struggled will be hit harder and they will have problem, but that would be a rather normal problem even without corona. I wanna know what in your opinion will happen to let's say to an average citizen, who wasn't on the low end of society.
> 
> From what I hear there is a crash of stock market, but to my limited understanding that just means that some fat cats with shit ton of money to spare will lose it, which is a minor problem even for them as they don't struggle to get food, shelter, clothes and even to waste some on their hobbies.
> 
> ...


Yes, I think the biggest problem is the temporary unemployment. Has the US never needed to work so much? Yes, I would agree with that statement, but in the sense of doing the right work at the right times for the right pay, which is not something is being fixed by the present situation. I actually think there is plenty of room for a near-endless amount of products and services that meet real needs _if_ consumers and the market focus on them (consider if we were all pursuing research into medical advances, scientific discovery, space exploration, green energy and other environmental solutions, education, art and illustration, healthy food and hygiene products, safety improvements, and so on). The concerns I have regarding our labor market are more of whether we are paying people reasonable living wages and providing decent benefits for the hard work that they are doing, whether the work being done is of benefit to individuals and/or society and culture at large, and whether people have fair opportunities to enter professions that tend to retain stability and/or encourage upward mobility. 

I don't tend to see this period as a luxury detox, because I think the reality is that it is hitting the poor much worse than the rich. Aside from travel having halted and business-related financial fluctuations (industries, stocks), the rich may be able to basically live the same lifestyle as usual and can largely still obtain luxury products, though services may be more spotty. Far on the other end of the spectrum, poor Americans who depend on low-wage jobs that are not feasible right now (food service, hospitality, etc.) may be facing economic binds making it hard for them to feed themselves and their children without finding higher-risk jobs, acquiring debt, and/or having to go without essentials. Abuse/neglect and domestic violence, issues correlated with poverty, are presently going under-reported, leaving the most vulnerable household members at higher risk of trauma and death. It also may put them in a place where they are forced to make decisions such as choosing food or medications (not both). A number of utilities (water/electric/gas) and services companies like internet providers or car loan companies have decided to relieve billing deadlines temporarily to ensure people don't go without food, water, and basic transportation (the US is quite spread out geographically in general and the average individual needs a car for a work commute) during this time. 

From what I understand, the average middle-class American tends to work a low-ranking office job and is probably teleworking but may have a reduction in pay presently because of less sales/transactions occurring. They are likely experiencing financial stress though not to the point of poverty. Regarding the stock market, it can be hard even on these normal working families. Many people put some of their savings money for retirement in stocks, and right now it's looking like far less money than it ever did. Some farmers are seeing issues with not being able to sell their crops, and even the Post Office here is floundering because it has lost its major source of revenue. Those are the recession-linked concerns: loss of jobs, loss of pay, loss of products, loss of consumers, loss of transactions, loss of faith in the market, loss of investment, deflation, liquidation. Recession can move into a downward spiral that is problematic at almost all levels for almost all individuals, which is why there is concern here to get the economy going again. 

With good fortune and good decisions on the parts of our leaders, I hope that that all Americans will be able to come out of this period with minimal financial loss. Realistically I still think it is going to have long-lasting detrimental effects for many, especially for those who were already in compromised socioeconomic groups.


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## The red spirit (Sep 29, 2015)

angelfish said:


> Yes, I think the biggest problem is the temporary unemployment. Has the US never needed to work so much? Yes, I would agree with that statement


I just want to mention that USA is often trying to push products that people don't need nor actually even want. Many products that are needed simply wouldn't need a shit ton of marketing, because they would be tools and there would be no reason to replace them if they fit the needs. I'm talking about big corps like Google, Apple and MS. Jobs even said that customers don't even know that they want iPhone, so it's our job to make them want it. In normal human language, that pretty much means pushing that that nobody asked for and look at them now, they made an icon, which is still far from needed. It was a good exploit of human's irrational part of brain. When you think about it, many corps do very similar things which is deceiving masses for profit. And it could be reasoned that many of such things serve a purpose of pleasing our irrational part of brains, but reality is that many of them don't and their sole purpose is just to sell.

Even if people wise up later in their life the products/services have been purchased and damage was done. So it's kinda legal semi-scam. At least this is how I feel, corrections are welcome.



angelfish said:


> but in the sense of doing the right work at the right times for the right pay, which is not something is being fixed by the present situation. I actually think there is plenty of room for a near-endless amount of products and services that meet real needs _if_ consumers and the market focus on them (consider if we were all pursuing research into medical advances, scientific discovery, space exploration, green energy and other environmental solutions, education, art and illustration, healthy food and hygiene products, safety improvements, and so on).


Sounds really cool, ironically right now that is the most financially ignored stuff. I guess it might be due to that at some point advances will be so great, that our efficiency will be too good and employing people will be less and less needed. Also it will make people live longer and reduce chances of failed reproduction, while morally desirable it can become a problem at some point. Just look at Japan, where people live way longer than the rest of the world. They are crammed, experiencing young labor problems, poor birthing and etc.



angelfish said:


> I don't tend to see this period as a luxury detox, because I think the reality is that it is hitting the poor much worse than the rich. Aside from travel having halted and business-related financial fluctuations (industries, stocks), the rich may be able to basically live the same lifestyle as usual and can largely still obtain luxury products, though services may be more spotty. Far on the other end of the spectrum, poor Americans who depend on low-wage jobs that are not feasible right now (food service, hospitality, etc.) may be facing economic binds making it hard for them to feed themselves and their children without finding higher-risk jobs, acquiring debt, and/or having to go without essentials. Abuse/neglect and domestic violence, issues correlated with poverty, are presently going under-reported, leaving the most vulnerable household members at higher risk of trauma and death. It also may put them in a place where they are forced to make decisions such as choosing food or medications (not both). A number of utilities (water/electric/gas) and services companies like internet providers or car loan companies have decided to relieve billing deadlines temporarily to ensure people don't go without food, water, and basic transportation (the US is quite spread out geographically in general and the average individual needs a car for a work commute) during this time.


Makes sense, but how many Americans there are in lower end financial situation?



angelfish said:


> From what I understand, the average middle-class American tends to work a low-ranking office job and is probably teleworking but may have a reduction in pay presently because of less sales/transactions occurring. They are likely experiencing financial stress though not to the point of poverty. Regarding the stock market, it can be hard even on these normal working families. Many people put some of their savings money for retirement in stocks, and right now it's looking like far less money than it ever did. Some farmers are seeing issues with not being able to sell their crops, and even the Post Office here is floundering because it has lost its major source of revenue. Those are the recession-linked concerns: loss of jobs, loss of pay, loss of products, loss of consumers, loss of transactions, loss of faith in the market, loss of investment, deflation, liquidation. Recession can move into a downward spiral that is problematic at almost all levels for almost all individuals, which is why there is concern here to get the economy going again.


But for that to happen wouldn't corona have to continue significantly longer than it is now? Also some states as far as I have heard don't have quarantine or have it way too light.



angelfish said:


> With good fortune and good decisions on the parts of our leaders, I hope that that all Americans will be able to come out of this period with minimal financial loss. Realistically I still think it is going to have long-lasting detrimental effects for many, especially for those who were already in compromised socioeconomic groups.


It would certainly be for the best, but at least for now USA seems to be affected the most by corona and for some things orange man is responsible. I don't think that he reacted quickly enough and I think that he was drastic enough with temporal changes. Partly it's because of his normal behavior, but another big thing was that many Americans simply protested and orange man could have been overthrown if he insisted on precautions. It's really a shame to have an uncooperative society, who can't for once give up some things for greater good. 

Also USA so far fired the most people, I have no idea why exactly that happened, but like contradictionary said there's something really fucked up about how society was set up to function.


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## Marianne19 (Apr 5, 2020)

Netflix and mask/sanitizer etc. manufacturers will rule the world.


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## angelfish (Feb 17, 2011)

The red spirit said:


> I just want to mention that USA is often trying to push products that people don't need nor actually even want. Many products that are needed simply wouldn't need a shit ton of marketing, because they would be tools and there would be no reason to replace them if they fit the needs. I'm talking about big corps like Google, Apple and MS. Jobs even said that customers don't even know that they want iPhone, so it's our job to make them want it. In normal human language, that pretty much means pushing that that nobody asked for and look at them now, they made an icon, which is still far from needed. It was a good exploit of human's irrational part of brain. When you think about it, many corps do very similar things which is deceiving masses for profit. And it could be reasoned that many of such things serve a purpose of pleasing our irrational part of brains, but reality is that many of them don't and their sole purpose is just to sell.
> 
> Even if people wise up later in their life the products/services have been purchased and damage was done. So it's kinda legal semi-scam. At least this is how I feel, corrections are welcome.


Ah, I see. No, I can agree there. What infuriates me personally is the attempts at monopolies. I've ditched Chrome and iPhone because I've been irritated that their respective parent companies desire to run all the things. I am glad Apple has finally woken up a bit to customer need and released their new phone. But yes, I see, the US can be very materialistic and push that, and you're right, it's beyond what is necessary or good. 



> Sounds really cool, ironically right now that is the most financially ignored stuff. I guess it might be due to that at some point advances will be so great, that our efficiency will be too good and employing people will be less and less needed. Also it will make people live longer and reduce chances of failed reproduction, while morally desirable it can become a problem at some point. Just look at Japan, where people live way longer than the rest of the world. They are crammed, experiencing young labor problems, poor birthing and etc.


True, though I think again that can be handled with the correct technology and migration of the labor force into jobs like geriatric care and medicine. Japan is ahead of the curve so it is facing these issues before strategies for adaptation have caught up.



> Makes sense, but how many Americans there are in lower end financial situation?


A lot, in short. 12.3% of Americans are in poverty per the 2017 census - 39.7 million people, but that number does not include those who are homeless (estimated around 550,000 any given night that year). Slightly less than half of those people are in what is called "deep poverty", where their income is at or below only half of the poverty threshold. SES class definitions for "lower" classes vary, but it's estimated that more than half of families (parent(s) + child(ren)) in the US live at or under $60k/year income, which would be a fairly basic amount to sustain the needs of an adult and child. One of the most concerning statistics to me was that the Hamilton Project 2006 report evidenced that more than 1 in 5 children faced food insecurity in 37 states.



> But for that to happen wouldn't corona have to continue significantly longer than it is now? Also some states as far as I have heard don't have quarantine or have it way too light.


Yes, it would have to continue. But like China is showing, recovery will be slow, not quick. Most states are crafting slow re-open plans to my knowledge. Some states are hit much harder than others, but many areas have not seen their case numbers peak yet. 



> It would certainly be for the best, but at least for now USA seems to be affected the most by corona and for some things orange man is responsible. I don't think that he reacted quickly enough and I think that he was drastic enough with temporal changes. Partly it's because of his normal behavior, but another big thing was that many Americans simply protested and orange man could have been overthrown if he insisted on precautions. It's really a shame to have an uncooperative society, who can't for once give up some things for greater good.


I have a lot of words for his (lack of) leadership, and none of them are particularly kind. There is no question in my mind that many in our country are sick and have died because of his foolishness. I had high hopes for his impeachment. Personally I feel that our government has become corrupted, which is deeply disappointing because when I grew up there was a strong sense of faith in our government and our country being democratic and a world leader. 



> Also USA so far fired the most people, I have no idea why exactly that happened, but like contradictionary said there's something really fucked up about how society was set up to function.


I don't think it's really that surprising or mysterious in many cases. One of the places I have lived, for example, is very hit hard because it is a tourist area. Its economy is largely driven by seasonal restaurants, recreation like parks and activities - golfing, spas, swimming, etc. - and little supply and gift stores. The largest employers, hotel chains, have very few duties that can be allowed right now. I don't find the tourist economy to be overly "frivolous" - sure it's where people vacation and relax, but I don't think it's ethically wrong, no moreso than holiday or birthday presents are "wrong". That being said, I do think we could do a lot more especially in tourist areas to have a more green economy with less waste. 

There has also been much discussion abound about the rise of the "gig economy", and I'm sure that is contributing negatively to our job loss. I do think that is a place that gets a little shady, because businesses stand to gain in a number of ways by contracting instead of hiring in-house, but gig jobs by nature tend to be unstable. Personally I prefer a higher degree of big business regulation than our government currently is engaging in, but that does relate back to the Cheeto in Chief.

The other thought I have here is that at least when employees are fired, they can apply for our government assistance. The US government has extended and increased its coverage for benefits. In some ways firing is kinder than dropping hours or dropping pay, because then at least individuals can apply for these sorts of benefits. I have heard through the grapevine that the process is unsurprisingly much slower than usual, but people who were laid off _are_ getting benefits.


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## The red spirit (Sep 29, 2015)

angelfish said:


> Ah, I see. No, I can agree there. What infuriates me personally is the attempts at monopolies. I've ditched Chrome and iPhone because I've been irritated that their respective parent companies desire to run all the things. I am glad Apple has finally woken up a bit to customer need and released their new phone. But yes, I see, the US can be very materialistic and push that, and you're right, it's beyond what is necessary or good.


I wouldn't say that Apple has woken up. They have been struggling with iPhone sale numbers for a while. iPhone 11 was made cheaper to sell better, but with all what happened their effort wasn't great enough. Instead Apple actually made a still too expensive "budget" phone, which in Apple world is cheap. It's a pretty good exploit of current times and then locking up people in Apple ecosystem, so they will buy more expensive good later. Apple is clearly feeling uneasy now, as iPhone buying limits were lifted for undisclosed time. 




angelfish said:


> True, though I think again that can be handled with the correct technology and migration of the labor force into jobs like geriatric care and medicine. Japan is ahead of the curve so it is facing these issues before strategies for adaptation have caught up.


At the same time they aren't welcoming foreigners too much...




angelfish said:


> A lot, in short. 12.3% of Americans are in poverty per the 2017 census - 39.7 million people, but that number does not include those who are homeless (estimated around 550,000 any given night that year). Slightly less than half of those people are in what is called "deep poverty", where their income is at or below only half of the poverty threshold. SES class definitions for "lower" classes vary, but it's estimated that more than half of families (parent(s) + child(ren)) in the US live at or under $60k/year income, which would be a fairly basic amount to sustain the needs of an adult and child. One of the most concerning statistics to me was that the Hamilton Project 2006 report evidenced that more than 1 in 5 children faced food insecurity in 37 states.


Doesn't sound too great, but wait a second. 5k per month is considered average or below average? That sounds like a lot, but likely means high expenditures. So another question, why USA is so expensive or why people are spending so much?




angelfish said:


> Yes, it would have to continue. But like China is showing, recovery will be slow, not quick. Most states are crafting slow re-open plans to my knowledge. Some states are hit much harder than others, but many areas have not seen their case numbers peak yet.


Just today I heard that Wuhan has 0 corona patients and that they beat the virus. Sounds unbelievable, but that's what officially was said. So, for them it took around 5 months to deal with virus. The bigger the country is, the more fractured government is, the higher population it has means that virus will last longer there. USA fulfills all criteria. It's big, it's fractured into states and then into cities, population is really high, also distances are long for ambulances to drive. A perfect formula for long pandemic. China is much less fractured, they have one leading party so they are faster in management, ambulances can quickly reach anyone in dense city. My own country Lithuania is now past peak and it's expected that quarantine will end after 1-2 months. Lithuania has been in quarantine for nearly 2 months. It's pretty close to ideal case, so in total it's 3-4 months. It's plausible that USA will have to survive 7 months in total, if there won't be any second wave. If there is, then waited time will be wasted and it starts over. With current poor management and emotional society, there's a real risk of second wave there. 



angelfish said:


> I have a lot of words for his (lack of) leadership, and none of them are particularly kind. There is no question in my mind that many in our country are sick and have died because of his foolishness. I had high hopes for his impeachment. Personally I feel that our government has become corrupted, which is deeply disappointing because when I grew up there was a strong sense of faith in our government and our country being democratic and a world leader.


Well, I thought that he will get more serious during such problems. He did, but it wasn't enough. From my perspective, he didn't do most things wrong, he did certain things reasonably okay, but one thing became clear. He's a wimp. Despite his public persona, he doesn't seem to have robust personality. Many of his opinions and beliefs are swayed by what others will think of him. Now he's just entertaining masses with his "cures". He's nothing more than public figure and his strategy now seems to inspire his people to keep their willpower, but at the same time he's not strong enough to tell everyone what to do and implement any robust plan. He is simply letting others handle matters however they want. I don't think that he's a bad person, just simply not a great leader. 



angelfish said:


> I don't think it's really that surprising or mysterious in many cases. One of the places I have lived, for example, is very hit hard because it is a tourist area. Its economy is largely driven by seasonal restaurants, recreation like parks and activities - golfing, spas, swimming, etc. - and little supply and gift stores. The largest employers, hotel chains, have very few duties that can be allowed right now. I don't find the tourist economy to be overly "frivolous" - sure it's where people vacation and relax, but I don't think it's ethically wrong, no moreso than holiday or birthday presents are "wrong". That being said, I do think we could do a lot more especially in tourist areas to have a more green economy with less waste.


It certainly looks mysterious to me, because me sitting on another side of ocean certainly wouldn't think that tourism is a strong thing in USA. Certainly not the first thing that comes into my mind when thinking about America. 




angelfish said:


> The other thought I have here is that at least when employees are fired, they can apply for our government assistance. The US government has extended and increased its coverage for benefits. In some ways firing is kinder than dropping hours or dropping pay, because then at least individuals can apply for these sorts of benefits. I have heard through the grapevine that the process is unsurprisingly much slower than usual, but people who were laid off _are_ getting benefits.


I don't think that it's sustainable. It's just slowly going to drain budget and maybe even not so slowly too. If millions will have to get money for basically existing, budget soon will be gone. I personally got a pension from my government for a while. It was really small and you could only get it if you meet their criteria for what they think is good enough for one. If you didn't meet it, you won't get a cent. That includes even those situations, where you are still not good enough to exist without assistance. It just means that you don't meet someone criteria, doesn't matter if you suffer. 

I dunno, if it was me in government I would suggest to temporarily employ fired people to make masks and gloves for small low gave. It's not much, but at least it keeps production of country at reasonable levels and adds to people's financial stability. This or some other work, which could reduce government's expenditures.


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## contradictionary (Apr 1, 2018)

MonarK said:


> As a followup to my prior thread on emergency work, what companies and products do you think will receive a spike in business once the Coronavirus runs its course? Once stock prices begin to rise again, I have plans to limit my spending in the market and shift it over to a side-business. So PerC, what sort of goods or services would be desirable in the coming months--one that any startup wannabe can provide himself or through a manufacturer?


Obviously, health care industrial complex. It's one kind of business which do not recognize the so-called business cycle. In good times, they thrive. In pandemic, they thrive. In recession, they thrive even more because people are more prone to illness if they are depressed. 

The hell, nothing can beat it.

That's why it is so lucrative while being so corruptible at the same time. The thin line between goodwill vs evilcraft happens in healthcare. Most of the time evil wins so take this as a warning.

Edit: and oh, i also see the rise in sports/well being/health improvement products and services. People will eventually learn that their unhealthy lifestyle is not sustainable in the face of life threatening viruses. No amount of body positivity dogma will stop this new awareness.


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