# Education vs Intelligence



## Tulipgarden (Apr 5, 2012)

I am not very smart but I love to learn. I wonder what that means.


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## hairyhunk (Jan 16, 2012)

ideally, one's education should suit one's intelligence and abilities. i believe in the existence and value of many different kinds of intelligence. i see education primarily as opportunity and as something that shouldn't be taken for granted.


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## redcarol57 (May 2, 2012)

Tezkatlipoca said:


> Now if you've some how happened to run along one of my post in the forums, then you already know how I feel about this topic, but I want to see others point of view on the topic, how do you feel about education? Is it an absolute necessity, and without it what are you?


Here's what I've noticed (I'm a teacher). 

Intelligence is only the ability to notice information, retain it and recall it (spit it back). In that respect, intelligence is measurable. But intelligence does not necessarily mean that someone knows what to do with all that retained information so it can be used in a practical manner. That is something all together different than measurable intelligence. 

The ability to make connections and find a practical way to use the retained information is an entirely different process. For instance, creativity is required to be able to use all the trivia, skills and information etc. Education can get you only to that point, although don't get me wrong - it's an important point. Creativity is something that can't necessarily be learned, it can only be nurtured and fostered. Education helps, but it is only part of the equation. 

I've encountered more than my share of educated idiot that know a lot, but can only spit back information they've been given. Creativity and thinking outside the box or for one's self is another issue all together.


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## rycbar (Aug 2, 2011)

You can learn anything on your own, but it means absolutely nothing in a society that places such regard on a college education. By the same token if you are a self-taught man (or woman) of the highest degree, then college should be simple enough for you as should be obtaining scholarships to pay for it. Why not just go through with it? I'd prefer to be intelligent and "stable" than intelligent and struggling to make ends meet.


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## Tezkatlipoca (May 7, 2012)

Gadfly said:


> You can learn anything on your own, but it means absolutely nothing in a society that places such regard on a college education. By the same token if you are a self-taught man (or woman) of the highest degree, then college should be simple enough for you as should be obtaining scholarships to pay for it. Why not just go through with it? I'd prefer to be intelligent and "stable" than intelligent and struggling to make ends meet.


Ah see, I was waiting for somebody to make this argument. Education may be important in the regard that you are doing it to better yourself and expand your knowledge, and that's it. If you are doing it simply to "make ends meet." then there are countless ways of making ends meet than following some societal norm that judges you based on whether you have a magic piece of paper or not. I'm all for going to college for that reason and that reason alone, if you are majoring in a field simply because it pays good then you're in for a very stressful life.


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## heron (Sep 14, 2011)

As an autodidact, I can say without certainty that education =/= intelligence. A reasonably intelligent person will be able to educate themselves. I may not be formally educated in much, but I have yet to encounter a situation where this has posed an actual problem.


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## Love (May 20, 2012)

There is an acquired intelligence that can not be learned in schools but takes place as you experience life. There is an acquired knowledge that cannot be learned just by experiencing life but takes place through study. I like to soak up all I can, however, a school building is not the only place one can study, although it can be beneficial to have an instructor with knowledge in the desired area which exceeds your own. The same thing goes for those you surround yourself with. I love hanging around those I consider intellectual or intelligent, I love the conversation they bring to the table, and they can have quite the sense of humor. Share with me something I don't know, show me your perspective, make me laugh, I find it fascinating


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## Love (May 20, 2012)

Tezkatlipoca said:


> Ah see, I was waiting for somebody to make this argument. Education may be important in the regard that you are doing it to better yourself and expand your knowledge, and that's it. If you are doing it simply to "make ends meet." then there are countless ways of making ends meet than following some societal norm that judges you based on whether you have a magic piece of paper or not. I'm all for going to college for that reason and that reason alone, if you are majoring in a field simply because it pays good then you're in for a very stressful life.



I agree, it seems many are putting themselves deeply in debt trying to educate themselves for a career they would not even be happy in, just for the pay. Not only this, but they may also end up struggling with their grades being that it is not a subject that particularly interests them, therefore making it difficult to focus. Quite stressful indeed.


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## rycbar (Aug 2, 2011)

Tezkatlipoca said:


> Ah see, I was waiting for somebody to make this argument. Education may be important in the regard that you are doing it to better yourself and expand your knowledge, and that's it. If you are doing it simply to "make ends meet." then there are countless ways of making ends meet than following some societal norm that judges you based on whether you have a magic piece of paper or not. I'm all for going to college for that reason and that reason alone, if you are majoring in a field simply because it pays good then you're in for a very stressful life.


Agreed, but why would anyone decide to go into college to simply "make ends meet" or to produce an income? That would lead to certain unhappiness. Generally you have something you're interested in and go to college to further excel at it with the hopes of eventually making making money doing whatever particular thing it may be. What I meant was I would rather, for example, have a college degree that allows me to work on computers full-time rather than not have a college degree and hopefully someone's computer breaks and they want me to fix it. Maybe they'll pay me in potatoes, maybe they'll pay me in money. In the mean time I'll be flipping burgers at McDonald's and wondering how, with my unique talent, did I end up here.


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## Damien (May 25, 2012)

i have a big problem with education. somehow it makes acquiring knowledge feel wrong.

the main problem that i have is all the "dry work" that you have to do in order to prove that you're "capable". it crushes me like nothing else. i'm on the verge of failing my course right now and that is the only excuse that i have for the moment.


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## Library_Cat (Apr 5, 2012)

Tezkatlipoca said:


> Now if you've some how happened to run along one of my post in the forums, then you already know how I feel about this topic, but I want to see others point of view on the topic, how do you feel about education? Is it an absolute necessity, and without it what are you?


Now this is a difficult question... But I think it's a chicken or egg kind of question, in a way. Those with high levels of intelligence tend to naturally seek education, and those who have received education tend to become better able to use their intelligence, whatever level they start from.

Intelligence is important (because it allows so much to happen), and because of its importance, education is therefore also important, because education is a primary facilitator for improved intelligence. I don't actually think I can rank the two, because they both need each other to be effective.


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## Tezkatlipoca (May 7, 2012)

Library_Cat said:


> Now this is a difficult question... But I think it's a chicken or egg kind of question, in a way. Those with high levels of intelligence tend to naturally seek education, and those who have received education tend to become better able to use their intelligence, whatever level they start from.
> 
> Intelligence is important (because it allows so much to happen), and because of its importance, education is therefore also important, because education is a primary facilitator for improved intelligence. I don't actually think I can rank the two, because they both need each other to be effective.


Legend has it that once born a dumb ass, there is nothing you could do but accept your fate as a dumb ass. It seems you actually have knowledge and intelligence entirely mixed up, education can improve ones KNOWLEDGE. Intelligence is what you do with that knowledge and your ability to produce your own knowledge or how you relay it. Education could expand knowledge and maybe your skill and efficiency in using it, I believe intelligence might be in the genes, it CAN be improved but not by the school system's way of educating.


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## Jewl (Feb 28, 2012)

@_Tezkatlipoca_ - Well, intelligence isn't just the application of knowledge, but it is also the ability to acquire new knowledge. In that way education is dependent on people having intelligence, naturally. I simply wanted to add that into the equation. However, without education in at least some form (I'm not just talking about schooling systems, but actually educating yourself, for example) you will be intelligent, perhaps, but you won't have much knowledge and therefore much of that intelligence will go to waste. That is if you don't somehow educate yourself at all. 

But I'm curious -- are you referring to education as in the schooling systems worldwide? Public and private education? Now if you want that opinion, no, I do not think that sort of thing is actually necessary.


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## Tezkatlipoca (May 7, 2012)

Julia Bell said:


> But I'm curious -- are you referring to education as in the schooling systems worldwide? Public and private education? Now if you want that opinion, no, I do not think that sort of thing is actually necessary.


Yes, actually that was kind of my goal from the start, public education and how these schools force you to learn through rote memorization, I wanted to see what people thought of education in terms of a societal norm, hence why I asked "what are you without it?" I remember my mom once telling me that "without an education no woman would want you." (and of course she's referring to the actual public school systems form of education by acquiring a diploma and college degree.) which got me thinking, no not about how to get women because that statement alone is stupid in itself, but how it seemed most people thought that education = intelligence.


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## FlatteringlyDerisive (Dec 7, 2011)

Hah, this topic has bothered me for quite the time. Personally, I find my school encounters distasteful. When in the beginning sessions of school in elementary class and such, I became interested with many things. I did a lot of research at home from then on. As highschool made way, I was at my peak of stress. I found myself rather unhealthy and uninterested with socializing, yet my mildly-charismatic personality caught me some popularity to compensate, in which made it easier for me to be there. Texans don't offer much conversation besides discussion over their simple views and their amateur feelings about sex and love, as so vague it is. 

As said, school had little to do with my actual interests and mental state, but is good for use as a kind of reference guide and catalyst as to what I should learn. But now that I have started, I really think specialized colleges are all that are necessary, for the particulars. Our college/career center offered some online sources that caught my interest. I took a quick test to grant me results of what colleges would work for me compatibly. I laughed when my answer involved a paragraph that says "Most colleges ironically don't offer intellectual stimulation with their courses." 

Now I can just say that education is overrated. Many of my friends from non-advanced classes had more potential than my advanced pals. Many people abuse their position that they often don't deserve. I disliked it when people called me smart for something trivial. Then again, the term "smart"is is overly abused. I had a few really good friends from normal-leveled classes in school than I couldn't find in my advanced classes. I guess the only difference between the students was their interest with the programs, and how many times their parents told them that they are special. Yet, many of my low-education pals have more potential than my high-education pals.


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## Jewl (Feb 28, 2012)

Tezkatlipoca said:


> Yes, actually that was kind of my goal from the start, public education and how these schools force you to learn through rote memorization, I wanted to see what people thought of education in terms of a societal norm, hence why I asked "what are you without it?" I remember my mom once telling me that "without an education no woman would want you." (and of course she's referring to the actual public school systems form of education by acquiring a diploma and college degree.) which got me thinking, no not about how to get women because that statement alone is stupid in itself, but how it seemed most people thought that education = intelligence.


In this case, I agree with you one hundred percent. I have many bones to pick with how we structure our education systems -- even worldwide. Intelligence does not equal education in any way, shape, or form. How could it? I know many intelligent people who sadly grew up poor and went to public school in a poor county. Needless to say, the education wasn't all that great. One person in particular was always sharp, even though the knowledge she acquired wasn't great by any stretch. I'm sure the school gave her some things, but on the whole she learned things with the resources handed to her that weren't from that school. 

It's not even rote memorization. It's the entire structure of the system, at least in my eyes. But yes, there is the fact that only one sort of learner will get something out of it without too much struggle. It is a biased system. It has a very narrow view of "intelligence" and "academic". I know more about the issues from the US perspective. If you trace it back, you find it started when the idea of public education came about. The current system of education was designed during the economic situation of the industrial revolution, and the intellectual culture of the enlightenment -- these were the two things that helped define the structure. The idea of public education was revolutionary and very controversial. Basically, the mindset was: How do we get these poor people who can't afford education to get an education? The idea was to pinpoint subjects that would give the children a job in that current culture. 

So students are now divided and taught according to age -- _why? _Not every ten year old is going to comprehend things the same time as another ten year old. In fact, in this area we are all very different. Also, you see the two subjects math and reading at the very top. They are given the priority. Science and history next. The arts are ever at the bottom. Once again, why? If intelligence is the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills, why is math put ahead of music? Because of the mindset of the structure. It was all about giving people the basics and getting them a job. Also, math and reading and science, these things are seen as progressive, which the industrial revolution was all about. Basically, whatever subjects were seen as most useful were given the top priority. And quite honestly, you see this sort of structure worldwide. 

But we know now that intelligence varies a great deal. There's different sorts of intelligence. It isn't all that narrow. Sadly today, a student who is exceedingly talented in math might be regarded as more intelligent than a student good at acting. We separate the idea in our brains. It is how we have been taught. The system steers students away from what could be their passion -- from a job that could be more than just "work" but perhaps a job they love doing. It's not rational to tell somebody talented at, say, cooking to instead go for being a lawyer because there are more job opportunities and the pay is better. But we do this in a very inconspicuous way in the education system, despite the fact that we also say contradictory things, like "follow your dreams". 

Even now finishing high school and getting to college and getting a shiny degree does not guarantee you a job. So really, this structure is broken and pretty useless now. I don't mean to say that there's people who didn't benefit from this system, because there are. But sadly, there's a lot of people that it just hurts. 

I could say so much more. I've been researching this for a while. XD


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## Library_Cat (Apr 5, 2012)

Tezkatlipoca said:


> Legend has it that once born a dumb ass, there is nothing you could do but accept your fate as a dumb ass. It seems you actually have knowledge and intelligence entirely mixed up, education can improve ones KNOWLEDGE. Intelligence is what you do with that knowledge and your ability to produce your own knowledge or how you relay it. Education could expand knowledge and maybe your skill and efficiency in using it, I believe intelligence might be in the genes, it CAN be improved but not by the school system's way of educating.


Correct, education improves ones knowledge. Intelligence (in a broad sense) is the ability to take ones knowledge, and quickly and creatively apply it to find solutions and understandings in new situations. Intelligence is also a measure of how well one can absorb new knowledge. Within this broad definition, there are many kinds of intelligence, such as visual, verbal, musical, etc. I apologize for not clarifying that this was the definition I was using in my previous post.

The point I was trying to make, is that education is important in improving intelligence (more on this thought later), and intelligence is important in making use of education. It would be silly to try to say one is more important than the other, in my opinion, because you need both.

In a perfect world, where peoples' perceptions of intelligence, and intelligence tests themselves, were not culturally biased towards particular kinds of intelligence, you would be absolutely correct- education would not have much bearing on intelligence. But in the real world, the practical result of education is increased intelligence, because if someone is educated correctly, they are exposed to a wider knowledge base (which makes use of their knowledge faster and more efficient in new situations) and to new patterns of thinking (such as less flawed logic with which they can conclude more reliably correct solutions). Also, the simple fact that the student is exercising their own ability to absorb new knowledge and to discriminate between what knowledge is useful for a given situation, means that they are improving their ability to do these things in new situations (doesn't that sound familiar?).

I do agree that the school system currently has a lot of issues, which need to be fixed, somehow. But at least it is there to expose raw new ideas to students; without that, life would be very boring.


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## Playful Proxy (Feb 6, 2012)

Education is knowing things. 
Intelligence is knowing how to use what you know. You can be a master craftsman (intelligence), but without the proper tools, what you make will still suck. 

Both is preferable.


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## 2fast4u2 (Oct 3, 2011)

Most of us NT's are intellects, and therefore, should be autodidacts... That being said.

I was frustrated at my education, right up to the first year of college when I abandoned the idea that I would be groomed in a sphere of close minded rationale defined by something so limited as a mandatory "curriculum".. Sure, college is great, but the information can be sourced for free, if you need it... its there.. Trust me. Computer guys with degrees come to me, I learned the right way, by myself, and school is designed for the slowest guy in the class, fuck that.....

A school in my world would consist of one teacher per student, allowing the student to choose what they wanted to learn, with the teacher facilitating, never criticizing and allowing for the imagination to run as wild as possible.. for these dreams are the power of the future, and we often get cut off from that...


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## Library_Cat (Apr 5, 2012)

2fast4u2 said:


> Most of us NT's are intellects, and therefore, should be autodidacts... That being said.
> 
> I was frustrated at my education, right up to the first year of college when I abandoned the idea that I would be groomed in a sphere of close minded rationale defined by something so limited as a mandatory "curriculum".. Sure, college is great, but the information can be sourced for free, if you need it... its there.. Trust me. Computer guys with degrees come to me, I learned the right way, by myself, and school is designed for the slowest guy in the class, fuck that.....
> 
> A school in my world would consist of one teacher per student, allowing the student to choose what they wanted to learn, with the teacher facilitating, never criticizing and allowing for the imagination to run as wild as possible.. for these dreams are the power of the future, and we often get cut off from that...



Oh, if only... Actually, your post reminded me of an exceptional book that I recently read, called "The Diamond Age: Or, a Young Lady's Illustrated Primer," by Neal Stephenson. You may find it to be of interest.


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