# Can Confirm: "Bad boys" like "Good girls" just as much as the stereotype says.



## Ace Of Forests (Aug 22, 2021)

(Disclaimer: No flirting or assumption of gender is meant in this, just a statement of facts)


I was reading some interesting threads and I came across this:



Internal said:


> I am caught up in my own fantasies. I'm looking for an ideal life, ideal work, ideal love, ideal society. And I have to face each day that I'll never have it. Which makes me retreat even more into my ideal little world.


And no fucking joke, after having quite a few likes from @Internal , seeing some great posts from them, and a cute avatar....

I totally had that: "Fuck, give me your morals" moment

NO FUCKING CAP, IT IS MY FANTASY SOMETIMES TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE.


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## Queen of Cups (Feb 26, 2010)

When I was complaining about getting hit on by yet another jerk, my intj male best friend legit told me “You give off the girl next door vibes that some men just want to corrupt.” 😒

It’s also one of the reasons , not the only, I refused to wear a purity ring in high school/college. There were guys who saw it as a challenge.


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## Ace Of Forests (Aug 22, 2021)

Queen of Cups said:


> When I was complaining about getting hit on by yet another jerk, my intj male best friend legit told me “You give off the girl next door vibes that some men just want to corrupt.” 😒
> 
> It’s also one of the reasons , not the only, I refused to wear a purity ring in high school/college. There were guys who saw it as a challenge.


I'm not going to sugar coat it, you're right. Guys like me do see it as a challenge, and while sex was it's own thing for me personally, there were absolutely girls I 'corrupted' just to see if I could. It was fucked up. I'm sorry on their behave.


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## Scoobyscoob (Sep 4, 2016)

A fallen ESTJ 8 falls in love with a dreamy... ISFJ (INFP?).

I'd like to see what @Internal has to say about this thread, since I find her/him to be quite pleasant as well.


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## Ace Of Forests (Aug 22, 2021)

Scoobyscoob said:


> A fallen ESTJ 8 falls in love with a dreamy... ISFJ (INFP?).
> 
> I'd like to see what @Internal has to say about this thread, since I find her/him to be quite pleasant as well.


For me personally, Fi can't be first. Kelsey was an INFP, and it was the Fi hero that was too overwhelming on my dependency that I found it easier to break her heart than to break her image of who I was so I could be vulnerable for her. So now of course, knowing type in relation to my personal experience, am like: Have I dated an ISTJ, are they my ideal crush right now? What's going on here?

I think for me to get the TLC I need back, they would need the ability to put their own feelings aside if necessary. And INFPs, as much as I love yall, have a hard time doing that.


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## Scoobyscoob (Sep 4, 2016)

Ace Of Forests said:


> For me personally, Fi can't be first. Kelsey was an INFP, and it was the Fi hero that was too overwhelming on my dependency that I found it easier to break her heart than to break her image of who I was so I could be vulnerable for her. So now of course, knowing type in relation to my personal experience, am like: Have I dated an ISTJ, are they my ideal crush right now? What's going on here?
> 
> I think for me to get the TLC I need back, they would need the ability to put their own feelings aside if necessary. And INFPs, as much as I love yall, have a hard time doing that.


It sounds to me that you're indirectly saying you want an INFP. INFP tend to have strong morals and are intuitive enough to know when to share their morals with you and when it should probably be deferred until a better moment. I know... or have known an ESTJ who married an INFP. It was a rocky relationship at first but INFP got ESTJ to be a more moral person and ESTJ taught INFP how to be more assertive at work and when to cut someone off instead of using INFP as a doormat.

ESTJ chilled out quite a lot and INFP learned to assert herself more. ESTJ confided in me that he wanted to cheat on his wife and I didn't say anything to him about it since I didn't want him to try to pin his cheating on me. So he thought about it and almost went through with it but backed out at the last minute and realized he really didn't want to cheat on his INFP. INFP had a similar moment about possibly cheating on her ESTJ but I had nothing to do with that but I'm pretty sure she didn't. The last I heard from them, they ended up being loyal to one another in monogamy. 🙂


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## Ace Of Forests (Aug 22, 2021)

Scoobyscoob said:


> It sounds to me that you're indirectly saying you want an INFP. INFP tend to have strong morals and are intuitive enough to know when to share their morals with you and when it should probably be deferred until a better moment. I know... or have known an ESTJ who married an INFP.


Maybe. I don't truly put my future partner in that kind of box or expectation. I'll know what I actually want once I either meet them or am ready to 'play the field' and find out through more experience. I'm curious how it'll go this time though, every cycle of dating I go through was massively different, and the next cycle is looking likely to be the most different of them all.


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## Scoobyscoob (Sep 4, 2016)

Ace Of Forests said:


> Maybe. I don't truly put my future partner in that kind of box or expectation. I'll know what I actually want once I either meet them or am ready to 'play the field' and find out through more experience. I'm curious how it'll go this time though,


I was talking about an ESTJ+INFP couple I've known. I wasn't saying you should place the same expectations on a possible partner. Cheating is a reality that every couple faces at one point or another, so it's best to not be oblivious about the possibility. My wife has always maintained that she is monogamous and while I was unsure when I was younger, I found her views to be better than mine, so I adopted her view on monogamy as well.


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## Ace Of Forests (Aug 22, 2021)

Scoobyscoob said:


> I was talking about an ESTJ+INFP couple I've known. I wasn't saying you should place the same expectations on a possible partner. Cheating is a reality that every couple faces at one point or another, so it's best to not be oblivious about the possibility. My wife has always maintained that she is monogamous and while I was unsure when I was younger, I found her views to be better than mine, so I adopted her view on monogamy as well.


I understood what you meant, I was agreeing that maybe I'm indirectly wanting another type, but then clarifying that I don't really put those kinds of restrictions in reality. The only expectation I'm going into my next relationship with is that she's someone I deem I can trust. I'm not sure if I've ever fully trusted someone, so that's my goal. If I want to be with someone who can handle whatever you want to call _this_ that is my life, I need to be able to trust her.


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## 497882 (Nov 6, 2017)

Ace Of Forests said:


> (Disclaimer: No flirting or assumption of gender is meant in this, just a statement of facts)
> 
> 
> I was reading some interesting threads and I came across this:
> ...


This is not so much a Bad boys/Good girl thing as there is also the attraction between Bad Girls and Good boys. I think a lot of times oppisates attract for different reasons. In some cases the parties like the other since the other person will balance them out. This is also seen in mental disorders. Some disorders compliment each other. This is why Biplors and Narssists tend to often find themselves together. I personally often date people who are more overtly sexual than myself or more able to express themselves where as I am personally painful introverted and a little awkward. 

In some cases its just a fetish but not really always the case. Its a bit more complicated.


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## Scoobyscoob (Sep 4, 2016)

Ace Of Forests said:


> I understood what you meant, I was agreeing that maybe I'm indirectly wanting another type, but then clarifying that I don't really put those kinds of restrictions in reality. The only expectation I'm going into my next relationship with is that she's someone I deem I can trust. I'm not sure if I've ever fully trusted someone, so that's my goal. If I want to be with someone who can handle whatever you want to call _this_ that is my life, I need to be able to trust her.


Of course yes, I agree. Trust is very important as most things in life are outside of your control, so you have to trust that the people in your life and especially your spouse is someone you can trust implicitly. Related to trust is loyalty and while I think pledging blind loyalty isn't good, being able to trust your SO and also be loyal to her is a positive quality. You probably wouldn't want to go on and on about how trustworthy and loyal your SO is on a public forum like PerC, or to go around telling everyone you meet that. Envy and being covetous are very human emotions and while I find it to be irrational, simply being in a relationship suddenly makes you more desirable to some people.

Then that's where being trustworthy and loyal actually makes you a good person for not straying from your SO. 🙂 That's how I see it anyway.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

I think most "bad" boys know what "bad" is and can recognize it in others, and they can also choose to avoid it, because who wants to be treated that way?

But the issue becomes:

Is the "bad" boy attracted to the good girl because he admires her altruism, her goodness etc., and she inspires him to become a better person?

Or is he attracted to her because she's easier to exploit and she has more to give?


Because I think it's really important for someone who's self-aware to be able to define that for themselves and to choose.

I always think of this song when I hear "badboy" lol





This one's off topic but it came up on youtube and is about badness.


* *














(I'm putting "bad" in quotes because I don't like calling people bad--probably leftover from working with children)


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## Ace Of Forests (Aug 22, 2021)

WickerDeer said:


> I think most "bad" boys know what "bad" is and can recognize it in others, and they can also choose to avoid it, because who wants to be treated that way?
> 
> But the issue becomes:
> 
> ...


Yeah we call that 'Game respects Game' and it's real. It's basically a code, and I've uttered those words before to communicate it more than once. That's how we know who's a 'poser' and who isn't. Because the 'bad' boys who actually know what they're doing, know that you don't want to mess with someone else who also knows what they're doing. It's just not worth the risk. So when someone is peacocking around, trying to 'defeat you', something modern society has dubbed 'white knights', they're just posers who think they know what's going on, but doesn't actually have a clue.

Dunning-Kruger effect.

We also can spot innocent vulnerability, which is why pedos get messed up in jail. We all have those innocent people we want to save for corruption, I wouldn't want you touching my sister, so I'm not going to touch yours. But some people can only 'compete' against that, hence why the girls have to be young...

So yeah, there is kind of an honor system.


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## Scoobyscoob (Sep 4, 2016)

@Ace Of Forests Out of idle curiosity how many women have you "corrupted"? lol You sound like someone I used to know who lives in DC and he'd say similar things, except he was really bad at it because I don't think he really wanted to do so. 😄 He was a recent immigrant from Africa where conceptions of good and evil are much different than in the Western world so I think that was just his way of adjusting to western values.

You remind me of him. 😄


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

Ace Of Forests said:


> Yeah we call that 'Game respects Game' and it's real. It's basically a code, and I've uttered those words before to communicate it more than once. That's how we know who's a 'poser' and who isn't. Because the 'bad' boys who actually know what they're doing, know that you don't want to mess with someone else who also knows what they're doing. It's just not worth the risk. So when someone is peacocking around, trying to 'defeat you', something modern society has dubbed 'white knights', they're just posers who think they know what's going on, but doesn't actually have a clue.
> 
> Dunning-Kruger effect.


Hm. 

Yeah--that is all foreign to me. 
I've never wanted to have "game" in dating--to me dating should just be an opportunity for people to try to be their best selves, and perhaps even make the world a better place. 

It also sort of sounds like an E8 thing to recognize power dynamics like that and to see them around. I can't really identify with it because I'm not like that at all.

I don't really like the terms--makes me glad I'm not dating as I really can't relate to either (players or white knights). 

I have just noticed from anecdotal experience--seeing very empathetic or altruistic women seemingly attract people who really aren't very empathetic. 

But I suspect sometimes it's not even a "game" but some kind of deeper desire or attraction between opposites.

But that's just one of my beliefs about compatibility--I do think there is something to it. But it's also a whole lot more complicated, as you alluded to.

There are a lot of modern theories about attraction--some people say similarities...I mean, back in the past marriages were all motivated by power (or the upper class ones especially) and convenience. Now we have these modern notions like opposites completing each other, or people reaching their higher potential.

I listened to a podcast about it not too long ago and it made me realize how limited my view is--as there are a lot of different beliefs about compatibility and relationships in the world and throughout history.


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## Ace Of Forests (Aug 22, 2021)

Scoobyscoob said:


> @Ace Of Forests Out of idle curiosity how many women have you "corrupted"? lol You sound like someone I used to know who lives in DC and he'd say similar things, except he was really bad at it because I don't think he really wanted to do so. 😄 He was a recent immigrant from Africa where conceptions of good and evil are much different than in the Western world so I think that was just his way of adjusting to western values.
> 
> You remind me of him. 😄


I'm a victim of physical abuse so I was more into making girls 'fall for me' than having sex with them. I lost my virginity at 17, but the first 'I love you' from a stranger I got was in 4th grade. Not crossing that line was my lie to myself that it was okay. That as long as it wasn't about sex, then I wasn't like my dad. So my 'black book' isn't even double digits, 9. As for women I've made fall in love with me, that's the one I couldn't tell you for sure. Somewhere around 20. If you count Yahoo messenger when I was 12 (yeah, I was that kid) more like 4-5 dozen. It was a game for me online.


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## Scoobyscoob (Sep 4, 2016)

Ace Of Forests said:


> I'm a victim of physical abuse so I was more into making girls 'fall for me' than having sex with them. I lost my virginity at 17, but the first 'I love you' from a stranger I got was in 4th grade. Not crossing that line was my lie to myself that it was okay. That as long as it wasn't about sex, then I wasn't like my dad. So my 'black book' isn't even double digits, 9. As for women I've made fall in love with me, that's the one I couldn't tell you for sure. Somewhere around 20. If you count Yahoo messenger when I was 12 (yeah, I was that kid) more like 4-5 dozen. It was a game for me online.


Oh I see. I thought you were putting on a persona to make yourself seem more interesting but there was abuse involved. Ok well I won't question you then as my wife and I have also faced some minor abuse and we helped each other a lot in healing from it.

I hope you find that special someone who can heal you too and perhaps you can do the same for her.


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## Ace Of Forests (Aug 22, 2021)

Scoobyscoob said:


> Oh I see. I thought you were putting on a persona to make yourself seem more interesting but there was abuse involved. Ok well I won't question you then as my wife and I have also faced some minor abuse and we helped each other a lot in healing from it.
> 
> I hope you find that special someone who can heal you too and perhaps you can do the same for her.


No, for 'real players' the opposite is true. The less truth people know about you, the easier it is to dupe them. That's why I don't blame you for thinking that, because most dudes in my position would be full of shit. But I truly am a victim of some really terrible shit, and from the sheer absurdity that is my story, most assume I'm full of shit and try to 'snuff' me out. So instead I hid. Instead of telling my 'partners' the full truth, I learned what they could handle, and gave them just that, and nothing more. Just 'show them enough' that they know I'm for real, then get the good stuff, the sympathy. That was when I was unhealthy.

I've been on the road to being healthy for 5 years, and most of that is understanding why the stuff I was taught works, and being able to separate it from my identity.

PerC right now is the place I'm tiptoeing the idea of having no mask, because it's been a good mix of skepticism and support.


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## daleks_exterminate (Jul 22, 2013)

Queen of Cups said:


> When I was complaining about getting hit on by yet another jerk, my intj male best friend legit told me “You give off the girl next door vibes that some men just want to corrupt.” 😒


Luckily, i don't have to worry about that one..

I've had multiple dudes straight up say "I thought you were really hot until I got to know you." 🤣🤣🤣








> It’s also one of the reasons , not the only, I refused to wear a purity ring in high school/college. There were guys who saw it as a challenge.


Purity culture is toxic af


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## daleks_exterminate (Jul 22, 2013)

MisterDexter said:


> Good boys.


Hot. 😅


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