# Finger Ratio on men as a determiner for behavior and promiscuity



## Desolan (Nov 14, 2011)

Fortune Telling Fingers: Men's Hands May Predict How Kind They Are To Women

I just had to share this when I saw it.

Any thoughts on this, and how do you guys compare?

And just so you all know my ring and index fingers are nearly identical in length, and am very kind to women.


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## Stelmaria (Sep 30, 2011)

I think it is more or less complete nonsense as with most of the finger digit ratio hypotheses that have since been proven false, there are greater differences between people from different countries than there are between men and women of the same country.

FYI 0.98.


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## aef8234 (Feb 18, 2012)

Pseudoscience will be slapped in the face with a pisces.

-reads a bit-
This isn't finger length, this is hormones in the womb and babbys and alpha and beta males and finger length being mentioned for like, three sentences.

And then the source has no statistical data, but they do say their findings.
Which is a bit weird sounding.


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## dulcinea (Aug 22, 2011)

Finger ratio is supposedly determined by the hormones you were exposed to in the womb. idk if it's true in EVERY case. It's like saying men are taller than women. The mean height of men in general, is yes, taller than that of women, but I know several couples in which the wife is taller than the husband. It's one of those situations in which just because it's true collectively, it doesn't mean it will necessarily be true in any given specific situation. 

In case anyone is interested: Yes, my digits are the same size(those two at least). I consider myself androgynous. Most of the time. Is there a correlation? I don't have enough information to say one way or the other.


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## CaptSwan (Mar 31, 2013)

I'd heard of the finger-ratio thing as a way to identify sexual preference but; not for treatment of women... Guess we're just fishin' out in the water regarding some things. If you want to pay attention to women, you'll pay attention; if you don't, you won't. Plain and simple.


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## snowbell (Apr 2, 2012)

CaptSwan said:


> I'd heard of the finger-ratio thing as a way to identify sexual preference but; not for treatment of women... Guess we're just fishin' out in the water regarding some things. If you want to pay attention to women, you'll pay attention; if you don't, you won't. Plain and simple.


I want to hug your avatar. It looks so majestic!


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## CaptSwan (Mar 31, 2013)

snowbell said:


> I want to hug your avatar. It looks so majestic!


:laughing:

Thanks! It's the hood ornament of a 1940's Packard automobile. It's a shame they don't make beauties like this.


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## Sporadic Aura (Sep 13, 2009)

My fingers are different lengths on both hands. On my left hand my pointer is longer on my right my ring is longer. *shrug*


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## Metalize (Dec 18, 2014)

Snowy Leopard said:


> I think it is more or less complete nonsense as with most of the finger digit ratio hypotheses that have since been proven false, there are greater differences between people from different countries than there are between men and women of the same country.
> 
> FYI 0.98.


Could you link to a few of those hypotheses that were proven false? To my knowledge, quite a few reputable sites have published research that finds some link to testosterone, at the very least.

Now, trying to link testosterone, in isolation, to any particular behavior or characteristic is going to prove difficult because there are many other variables, many of which we don't know yet. Yet, I don't think most people would deny that it does have some noticeable effects on biology.


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## stiletto (Oct 26, 2013)

I heard that if your toes taper like mine do, you will be an obedient wife.

ROFL.

I think that has as much merit as this hogwash about men's finger length.


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## Stelmaria (Sep 30, 2011)

Metasentient said:


> Could you link to a few of those hypotheses that were proven false? To my knowledge, quite a few reputable sites have published research that finds some link to testosterone, at the very least.


Even if there is a link to prenatal testosterone, the links to other aspects of health or psychology are highly questionable.

In general, the main problem with this measure is that the effect size is weak and the effect itself has poor specificity and sensitivity in predicting whatever outcome (eg prenatal androgens)

Fingers as a marker of prenatal androgen exposure.
Fingers as a marker of prenatal androgen exposure. - PubMed - NCBI


> Individuals with 46,XY karyotype but no effective prenatal androgen exposure due to complete androgen insensitivity syndrome had digit ratios that were feminized: they were higher than those of typical men and similar to those of typical women. Nevertheless, the effect was modest in size, and there was considerable within-group variability and between-group overlap, indicating that digit ratio is not a good marker of individual differences in prenatal androgen exposure.


Here is an example of a meta-analysis that found Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia (which involves differences in congenital hormones) to have an effect on spatial ability, whereas the 2D:4D ratio did not.
Spatial ability and prenatal androgens: meta-analyses of congenital adrenal hyperplasia and digit ratio (2D:4D) studies. - PubMed - NCBI

2D:4D ratio not associated with adult hormones (though I know no one in this thread has made this claim):
Second to fourth digit length ratio (2D:4D) and adult sex hormone levels: new data and a meta-analytic review.
Second to fourth digit length ratio (2D:4D) and adult sex hormone levels: new data and a meta-analytic review. - PubMed - NCBI

Likewise, the effect of 2D:4D ratio on male homosexuality:
Sexual orientation and the second to fourth finger length ratio: a meta-analysis in men and women.
Sexual orientation and the second to fourth finger length ratio: a meta-analysis in men and women. - PubMed - NCBI



> In addition to identifying the normative heterosexual sex difference in 2D:4D for both hands, we found that heterosexual women had higher (more feminine) left- and right-hand 2D:4D than did lesbians, but we found no difference between heterosexual and gay men. Moderator analyses suggested that ethnicity explained some between-studies variation in men.


The most interesting part about all these 2D:4D studies is that the findings are almost always only found in white people and the associations seem to disappear in studies of people in other countries. Publication bias? A genetic issue specific to white people? Who knows.


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## Glassland (Apr 19, 2014)

My index finger is longer than my ring finger, which would indicate more estrogen exposure in the womb.
I kinda am sensitive and all that, but I am mostly cool with being a dude. It's who I am and I am comfortable with it. 
I can be assertive and dominant and do most of the 'guys stuff' and I actually enjoy it, like most guys do. 
In my youth I was a whiny bitch though and overly sensitive, basically very girlish in my behavior. I turned the steering wheel around shortly before I turned 21, optimized my testosterone levels and basically all around worked on myself and I still do. I can also recommend NoFap a lot (sexual energy).

All in all I can not say for sure if the digit length has an actual influence on your personality.


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## Children Of The Bad Revolution (Oct 8, 2013)

Glassland said:


> In my youth I was a whiny bitch though and overly sensitive, basically very girlish in my behavior.


Something else made you "girlish" or just being a whiny 'bitch' and 'overly sensitive'?


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## Glassland (Apr 19, 2014)

Children Of The Bad Revolution said:


> Something else made you "girlish" or just being a whiny 'bitch' and 'overly sensitive'?


Perhaps as well that my father was only physically present in my upbringing and my mother did 99% of the education. Obviously the upbringing is then imbalanced. I lacked a proper male role model and now I have to teach myself.


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## ShatteredHeart (Jul 11, 2014)

INFP with a longer ring finger. Never knew I was a cheating slut bag till now. My whole life is a LIE!!


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## ShatteredHeart (Jul 11, 2014)

Children Of The Bad Revolution said:


> Something else made you "girlish" or just being a whiny 'bitch' and 'overly sensitive'?


I wish I could unthank this post so bad, thats pretty rude


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## Children Of The Bad Revolution (Oct 8, 2013)

Glassland said:


> Perhaps as well that my father was only physically present in my upbringing and my mother did 99% of the education. Obviously the upbringing is then imbalanced. I lacked a proper male role model and now I have to teach myself.


So are you saying a mother as a primary role model made you have those negative traits?



> I wish I could unthank this post so bad, thats pretty rude


Mine?


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## Glassland (Apr 19, 2014)

Children Of The Bad Revolution said:


> So are you saying a mother as a primary role model made you have those negative traits?
> 
> 
> Mine?


I wouldn't necessarily describe them as negative. I only dyed them in a negative light because they have been imbalanced. Only masculine traits in a man are also negative. We need a balance of both.


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## stargazing grasshopper (Oct 25, 2013)

I think that article & especially the finger ratio research, was a complete waste of time & resources.


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## LadyO.W.BernieBro (Sep 4, 2010)

It's limited in its application for the traits people expect to be associated with male hormones.

Also applies to biological females,though, and because l have the male ratio on both hands l scored as having the 'male brain' on the test l first saw this theory used for. l'm not trans or particularly concerned with having a brain gender.

l've seen women all over the board with the longer ring finger (including my mom), it doesn't seem to translate to physical characteristics and most people have a pretty horrendous understand of what a female with a male brain would be like, anyway.

The only things discussed on that test result l think could apply to me would be along the lines of being more of a systemizer from a young age and being especially good at video games (stereotype or not), but l'd have to agree with the above statement about spatial ability and l'd believe that something else other than prenatal testosterone is responsible for that.

l'm pretty typically female in that department and a few others.

Interestingly l have a trans FTM sibling who also talks about this a lot and seemed almost jealous when they saw my hands:tongue: They have an equal ratio but actually tested for high *circulating* testosterone before even being placed on HRT.

Fetal exposure to hormones and brain development actually don't hold a strong correlation with the hormones that circulate in a person's physical body after puberty, it can even be mismatched.


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## Son of Mercury (Aug 12, 2014)

My ring finger is significantly longer than my index. Meh, whatever.


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## Diogenes (Jun 30, 2011)

Finger ratio doesn't reflect post natal levels of testosterone.
If you're interested in a easily measurable ratio that does then look up facial width to height ratio (only in men).
Divide the distance between your cheeckbones by the distance between the root of your nose (between the eyebrows) and the upper lip. The higher it is, the higher testosterone levels tend to be.

http://www.larspenke.eu/pdfs/Lefevre_Lewis_Perrett_Penke_in_press_-_fWHR_and_reactive_T.pdf


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## aef8234 (Feb 18, 2012)

Diogenes said:


> Finger ratio doesn't reflect post natal levels of testosterone.
> If you're interested in a easily measurable ratio that does then look up facial width to height ratio (only in men).
> Divide the distance between your cheeckbones by the distance between the root of your nose (between the eyebrows) and the upper lip. The higher it is, the higher testosterone levels tend to be.
> 
> http://www.larspenke.eu/pdfs/Lefevre_Lewis_Perrett_Penke_in_press_-_fWHR_and_reactive_T.pdf


Either way, both are correlational data implying that extraneous variables have no effect on the aesthetics of the human body.


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## stargazing grasshopper (Oct 25, 2013)

Desolan said:


> Fortune Telling Fingers: Men's Hands May Predict How Kind They Are To Women
> 
> I just had to share this when I saw it.
> 
> ...



*Any thoughts on this?*
I don't think that one should develop expectations of a man's behavior based upon the ratio of one finger to another. Everybody ought to be afforded the assumption of being respectful, loyal & good until their actions demonstrate otherwise. 
I think that my being judged likely to disrespect & cheat on women based upon my finger length ratio is ludicrous.
IMHO that research is an example of junk science at best.

*and how do you guys compare?
*My forefinger (ring finger) is visually a bit longer than my index finger, so I measured them just for shits & giggles. Forefinger (ring finger) measures 9.9cm, index finger measures 8.8cm = approximate ratio is 0.88
I can easily palm a basketball & move it around without it slipping from my grip. Hey I wonder if NBA players are more likely to disrespect & cheat on women or father fewer children?


I think that article & especially the finger ratio research, was a complete waste of time & resources.


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## Loaf (Mar 27, 2014)

Hmm the finger ratio as a determiner for behaviour sounds like a load of bollocks to me.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

All I can say for certain is that my index and pointer fingers are nearly identical in length, and I am very kind to women. I always have been. I don't see any reason to be otherwise.


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## Kytaari (Mar 14, 2011)

liberal retards are always on the lookout for reverse racist, reverse sexist science. Go watch TYT if this kind of stuff fascinates you so much, leftist prick. I'm a demonic white man who impregnates women with demon children. Especially the boys :kitteh:


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## Kytaari (Mar 14, 2011)




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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

I don't see any reason to believe that people with higher testosterone are likely to be significantly dick-ish. I mean, probably more likely than some Enneagram 9 INFP, but I don't think it's a substantial risk in any capacity. I would think stronger, more significant correlations could be measured in competitiveness, ambition, proneness to risky behavior, high sex drive and a preference for rigorous physical activity.

honestly, I found the tone of this piece subtly passive-aggressive (men with more testosterone are bad because they're more like masculine caveman stetereotypes)

PS: my ring finger is slightly longer than my index finger, which I think means I'm about average


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## LandOfTheSnakes (Sep 7, 2013)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> I don't see any reason to believe that people with higher testosterone are likely to be significantly dick-ish. I mean, *probably more likely than some Enneagram 9 INFP*, but I don't think it's a substantial risk in any capacity. I would think stronger, more significant correlations could be measured in competitiveness, ambition, proneness to risky behavior, high sex drive and a preference for rigorous physical activity.


Fuck you, too


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

LandOfTheSnakes said:


> Fuck you, too


I'm sorry you think that not being likely to be dick-ish is an insult :laughing:


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## LandOfTheSnakes (Sep 7, 2013)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> I'm sorry you think that not being likely to be dick-ish is an insult :laughing:


Haha it was more this part:



> I would think stronger, more significant correlations could be measured in competitiveness, ambition, proneness to risky behavior, high sex drive and a preference for rigorous physical activity.


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## Dawd (Jul 7, 2013)

My ring finger to index finger ratio is 1.11. I'm a total badass, by the way.


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## Cephalonimbus (Dec 6, 2010)

Is not being agreeable and quarrelsome necessarily a bad thing though? That's also the behaviour seen in someone who knows what they stand for and won't abandon their principles for the sake of being "nice".

I have much more respect for someone who stands by his or her principles even if that means being less than pleasant, than someone who is agreeable but lacks moral fibre... and some of the most righteous and honourable people I know aren't very agreeable and can be quarrelsome when they're challenged (some of these people are women BTW, and although I never measured their finger ratios I'm sure that means their testosterone levels are lower than the average guy's).

Besides, women aren't babies... I'm sure they can manage to deal with a man who disagrees with them and doesn't shower them with compliments all the time. How about being agreeable if we agree on something, not being quarrelsome when there's no reason to have a quarrel, smile when we're having a conversation that's mutually pleasant, and give compliments when the person we're talking to has done something worth complimenting?

As for promiscuity, that's also a matter of principles. If you're in a relationship which you agreed is exclusive, then don't fuck anyone else, simple as that. Hormones playing a role in how much you want to cheat is irrelevant, just don't do it :-/


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## Chris Merola (Jul 11, 2014)

My ring finger is just a smidge longer than my pointer finger, maybe half a centimeter. I'm a nice guy to ladies, although I can be a bit shy or reticent if they seem very attractive or extroverted. 

I have heard related finger studies saying that longer ring finger length determined lengthier penis size, lol. If I were a cynic I would guess that the "bad boys" don't need to make up for anything and so they are more disrespectful or whatever, pfff bwahaha


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## EndsOfTheEarth (Mar 14, 2015)

You mean it was this easy all along to root out the psycho's from society. Well fuck me.


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## IDontThinkSo (Aug 24, 2011)

My indexes are 1 or 2mm shorter, and whether or not it is relevant, I'm kind with the women I love. By the way, my spacial/logic skills are outstanding and I am very ambitious.

I only love women like me though, and vice versa. We're like a parallel species living in secret among humans. Smooth breakups, no cheating, happy and respectful relationships, good sex, lots of cuddles, no drama and compromises, smart kids.. Don't ask me more details in private or we'll have to kill you.


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## Son of Mercury (Aug 12, 2014)

Significantly longer than my index, despite my shorter than average fingers. I have all the indicators of high T, and I have the desire to be promiscuous but I keep it under control. Not sure how, but I do.

I treat women fairly, if they treat me fairly. If they want to play a game of dominance, then I will dominant them. Simple.


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## Stelmaria (Sep 30, 2011)

InSolitude said:


> You mean it was this easy all along to root out the psycho's from society. Well fuck me.


Yes, basically anyone who wants to measure the length of your fingers when you first meet them is a 'pscyho'.

(note, please forgive me for the ableist language)


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## RangerJoe (Nov 26, 2014)

I'm so done with this kind of bullshit. People are so invested in this dramatically oversimplified, pop-sci approach to gauging their "potential" so they can feel comfortable about themselves without actually having to do any work. Everyone wants to feel superior to someone else in some manner, but without making a coordinated effort to reach tangible results. Who cares about your level of "prenatal androgen exposure"? My ring finger is definitely longer than my pointer finger and I cried after the damn Pokemon movie. Nobody had any control over what happened in the womb, but most people who read this are likely in a position to exercise a large degree of control over their health and wellness. If you want to raise your testosterone, raise your testosterone. Keep, in my mind, however, that just because you have a higher level of testosterone than previously, it doesn't mean that suddenly out of nowhere you will just become wildly successful and achieve everything you'll ever want. I've followed through with that myself, and I've determined that it still comes down to sheer self-discipline to actually accomplish anything noteworthy. Genetics is way too complicated to be simplified so naively, anyway. This 2D:4D ratio doesn't even apply to many other races besides white people. Any backwashed, buzzfeed clickbait article claiming that you might have the "upper hand" because of "science" is almost always exaggerated in their main claim, but people still voraciously gobble it up without question. Many people who read it naively draw conclusions much too hastily,and forget pretty important things like "correlation doesn't necessarily imply causation". The point is, people's preoccupation (or rather, paranoia) about *potential* or *ability* is mostly unproductive and discouraging in the end, and we should instead be focusing on how to make the most of ourselves as we are.


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## ninjahitsawall (Feb 1, 2013)

Sporadic Aura said:


> My fingers are different lengths on both hands. On my left hand my pointer is longer on my right my ring is longer. *shrug*


My sister is like that haha. 

My ring finger is longer on both hands. 

Dunno how I treat women. They could probably tell you better than I can. But I am not promiscuous and not particularly nice to anyone really.


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## Stelmaria (Sep 30, 2011)

So I came across another paper on finger digit ratios, this time claiming a link between the ratios and giftedness
Differences in salivary testosterone, digit ratio and empathy between intellectually gifted and control boys

Statistically there seems to be an effect, but sadly there is no discussion of the sensitivity, specificity of the effect, nor whether such an effect exists in other samples, particularly in other ethnic groups. The findings do not seem generalisable from this evidence.

At the same time, I came across some interesting analysis on why the finger digit associations are not very exciting:

https://asehelene.wordpress.com/2015/02/23/things-im-curious-about-finger-ratio-and-social-priming/
https://asehelene.wordpress.com/2015/02/24/finger-ratio-curiosity-a-satisfying-answer/


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## Wellsy (Oct 24, 2011)

Digit length ratios and overinterpreting the data


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