# X/Y Cusp: End of Cold War



## Thalassa

Something that always strikes me is that those of us who were at least 8 or 10 years old when the Berlin Wall fell have an entirely different view than those of you who were either too young to be conscious of it, or of course different from people not yet born.

There's a very funny cut off point for Generations X and Y and those of us on the cusp usually relate to both.

I know I do, because the way I've accepted technology and taken it for granted seems to be more of a trait of Generation Y...but on the other hand I'm old enough to remember life before the Internet, cassette tapes, PBS programming being the only children's programming, and hearing stories about how people in Russia would buy your jeans off of you for outrageous amounts of money. I hated Gaddafi and feared him so much as an 8 year old girl, seeing him on my television, that I was actually more relieved on a psychological level when Gaddafi was killed I think than when Osama Bin Laden was killed. 

Those of us born on the cusp have our own special view of the world because we were literally shaped there at the very end of the Cold War. We spent our formative years in that world: the There's-No-Internet-Mr.Gorbechev-Tear-Down-This-Wall world. 

Many members of Generation Y feel their first real sense of being connected to the world from 9/11...and while I was a very young adult when it happened, I was still an adult. 

Is it just me? I don't think so because some sources cite Gen Y beginning in 1981...which would make the youngest members of Gen X exactly 8 years old when the Berlin Wall fell which is approximately a reasonable age to make this distinction in world time.

Not of pressing importance, but something that I've thought about on more than one occasion.

Why do some people make the 1977 cut off point? What is the cultural motive for that, I wonder?


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## Thalassa

I looked into it. Apparently the '77 cut-off point measures by technology (which is what I relate to in Gen Y) and the '81-'82 cut-off point measures world political events.

I also think it's interesting that Gen X is a Nomadic/Reactive generation and that Gen Y is the Civic/Heroic generation.


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## Robopop

fourtines said:


> I looked into it. Apparently the '77 cut-off point measures by technology (which is what I relate to in Gen Y) and the '81-'82 cut-off point measures world political events.
> 
> I also think it's interesting that Gen X is a Nomadic/Reactive generation and that Gen Y is the Civic/Heroic generation.


Neil Howe actually makes the cutoff for millennials/Gen Y 1982-2004, Gen X is 1961-1981.
Gen Y is comparable to the G.I. generation who were also a heroic generation, they helped win WW2, building up a new civic order after that. If all goes well(according to Neil Howe's generational theory)then Gen Y could very well set a new precedent and civic order for the remainder of the 21st century.


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## Dark Romantic

We sound awesome. Go us!


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## zenity

:bored: NECROPOST!!! :bored:



fourtines said:


> I looked into it. Apparently the '77 cut-off point measures by technology (which is what I relate to in Gen Y) and the '81-'82 cut-off point measures world political events.
> 
> I also think it's interesting that Gen X is a Nomadic/Reactive generation and that Gen Y is the Civic/Heroic generation.


Thanks for looking in to this! This is the first I'd heard of the '77 boundary being technological, but it does make sense. I think it's a big mistake to use technology cutoffs for the generational boundaries.

I'm a big fan of the alternating-paradigm theory. I think you could make an argument that technology has a stronger generation-binding effect during doctrinal saecli, where the public consciousness is focused on more intellectual and abstract issues, but in a moral saeclum, public consciousness is defined by moral and ethical concerns.

It seems pretty clear to me that the US is in the midst of a moral saeclum. You can see this with the hippie movement and later evangelical christianity and culture wars, even the "war on terror" has had strong undercurrents of moral righteousness.

It's likely that Europe is in the midst of a doctrinal saeclum, and even given that I don't see European generational cohesiveness being driven by technology as much as by politics.

And to top it all off, both sociological changes brought on by technology and morals and ethics are reflected ultimately in political events. So I'm not sure what technology really buys you as a common grouping factor, since it's not necessary to define generations. I get that it's an attempt to capture a notion of common culture, but compared to political and economic events which unconsciously permeate through our lives, cultural commonalities are pretty shallow.


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## Thalassa

Technology is our connective factor, and I feel it very much when I'm around older people, even some older Gen X'ers, not just Baby Boomers. That whole moral thing is the Baby Boomers...all that hippie stuff, and uber conservative Christianity...we have all that thanks to Boomers...and of course the opposite...the utter amorality that seems to have progressed since the 70's/80's...yes, we can thank Baby Boomers for that. 

You say that you think politics is a bigger underlying factor than technology and it very well may be. I don't know, my entire life has been changed by technology, because of the Internet I'm able to do and see things, and have met people - important people, men I've loved - because of the Internet. I believe it is the _salon _of the 21st century. 

Texting is a dream come true for people who like to communicate, but don't necessarily love to talk on the phone, as well.

And my access to music has everything to do with technology, and that's vastly important to my life, from Napster up to You Tube and MP3s, even being able to listen to music on my phone now, though I don't have an iPod. 

Technology has created culture for Gen Y, it had changed our form of intellectualism, our way of making relationships, our way of making art, our way of writing, our way of reading, our way of listening to music. It's something that Gen Y has experienced from a young age, even the oldest members of Gen Y probably have faster texting fingers and more on-line friends than most Boomers and Gen X'ers, even if people in those two generations are more net savvy, it may not be as central to their personal, emotional, intellectual, or artistic lives outside of business or staying in touch with people they already know from IRL. 

So that's why I very much do accept the technology argument, though I also can see why I'd be Gen X from the Cold War ending, and already being an adult when 9/11 happened...though I was a young adult.


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## Glenda Gnome Starr

Hmmm, hippies and uber conservative Christianity and amorality.
Yuck to all of the above.
Time for me to start lying about my age.
I am 80 years old (and I look 100).:laughing:




fourtines said:


> Technology is our connective factor, and I feel it very much when I'm around older people, even some older Gen X'ers, not just Baby Boomers. That whole moral thing is the Baby Boomers...all that hippie stuff, and uber conservative Christianity...we have all that thanks to Boomers...and of course the opposite...the utter amorality that seems to have progressed since the 70's/80's...yes, we can thank Baby Boomers for that.
> 
> You say that you think politics is a bigger underlying factor than technology and it very well may be. I don't know, my entire life has been changed by technology, because of the Internet I'm able to do and see things, and have met people - important people, men I've loved - because of the Internet. I believe it is the _salon _of the 21st century.
> 
> Texting is a dream come true for people who like to communicate, but don't necessarily love to talk on the phone, as well.
> 
> And my access to music has everything to do with technology, and that's vastly important to my life, from Napster up to You Tube and MP3s, even being able to listen to music on my phone now, though I don't have an iPod.
> 
> Technology has created culture for Gen Y, it had changed our form of intellectualism, our way of making relationships, our way of making art, our way of writing, our way of reading, our way of listening to music. It's something that Gen Y has experienced from a young age, even the oldest members of Gen Y probably have faster texting fingers and more on-line friends than most Boomers and Gen X'ers, even if people in those two generations are more net savvy, it may not be as central to their personal, emotional, intellectual, or artistic lives outside of business or staying in touch with people they already know from IRL.
> 
> So that's why I very much do accept the technology argument, though I also can see why I'd be Gen X from the Cold War ending, and already being an adult when 9/11 happened...though I was a young adult.


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## Steel Magnolia

Robopop said:


> Neil Howe actually makes the cutoff for millennials/Gen Y 1982-2004, Gen X is 1961-1981.


The cut-off point for "millenials" can vary. For instance, my high school history teacher said that anyone born in 1980 or later is part of the "Echo Generation" (which, on this forum, is referred to as "Generation Y"). I never even heard the term "Generation Y" until I got here- I always assumed that I was part of the Echo Generation ( I was born in late 1981, myself).


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## zenity

fourtines said:


> You say that you think politics is a bigger underlying factor than technology and it very well may be. I don't know, my entire life has been changed by technology, because of the Internet I'm able to do and see things, and have met people - important people, men I've loved - because of the Internet. I believe it is the _salon _of the 21st century.
> 
> Texting is a dream come true for people who like to communicate, but don't necessarily love to talk on the phone, as well.
> 
> And my access to music has everything to do with technology, and that's vastly important to my life, from Napster up to You Tube and MP3s, even being able to listen to music on my phone now, though I don't have an iPod.
> 
> Technology has created culture for Gen Y, it had changed our form of intellectualism, our way of making relationships, our way of making art, our way of writing, our way of reading, our way of listening to music. It's something that Gen Y has experienced from a young age, even the oldest members of Gen Y probably have faster texting fingers and more on-line friends than most Boomers and Gen X'ers, even if people in those two generations are more net savvy, it may not be as central to their personal, emotional, intellectual, or artistic lives outside of business or staying in touch with people they already know from IRL.
> 
> So that's why I very much do accept the technology argument, though I also can see why I'd be Gen X from the Cold War ending, and already being an adult when 9/11 happened...though I was a young adult.


That's really interesting! I'm starting to think that maybe the reason I don't see the strong connection with technology as a binding factor is because of my upbringing. I mean, I was a huge mega uber nerd, programming as a kid, etc., but the only technology unifying me and most of my friends was our walkmans and mix tapes :laughing:

Within my peer group, I probably identify more strongly with people who immerse themselves in technology, but I still relate more to technophobes my own age and even ten years older than me than I do to techies 10 years younger. They make me feel so _old_.

To me, that speaks to something other than technology demarcating the generations, such as common life events or profound cultural or political pivot points, but I could certainly be wrong.

You're right though, the omnipresence of technology has definitely changed everything, and it's certainly had its most profound impact on gen-y.

Maybe specific generations in the future will gravitate towards particular technologies that will unify them just as strongly, and this might shift the generational boundaries, but I'm inclined to think it's more like a generation forcing effect where the existence of generations provide an excuse to bond around particular technologies that happen to arise in the appropriate interval. So maybe you'll see the next prophet generation getting into hardcore transhumanist body enhancements or the like, but it won't be because the technology happens to come along, it'll be because they are generationally poised to want to adopt it.


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## Thalassa

walking tourist said:


> Hmmm, hippies and uber conservative Christianity and amorality.
> Yuck to all of the above.
> Time for me to start lying about my age.
> I am 80 years old (and I look 100).:laughing:


Clearly it's because you're an xSFP and you're too cool for all that. 







zenity said:


> That's really interesting! I'm starting to think that maybe the reason I don't see the strong connection with technology as a binding factor is because of my upbringing. I mean, I was a huge mega uber nerd, programming as a kid, etc., but the only technology unifying me and most of my friends was our walkmans and mix tapes :laughing:
> 
> Within my peer group, I probably identify more strongly with people who immerse themselves in technology, but I still relate more to technophobes my own age and even ten years older than me than I do to techies 10 years younger. They make me feel so _old_.
> 
> To me, that speaks to something other than technology demarcating the generations, such as common life events or profound cultural or political pivot points, but I could certainly be wrong.
> 
> You're right though, the omnipresence of technology has definitely changed everything, and it's certainly had its most profound impact on gen-y.
> 
> Maybe specific generations in the future will gravitate towards particular technologies that will unify them just as strongly, and this might shift the generational boundaries, but I'm inclined to think it's more like a generation forcing effect where the existence of generations provide an excuse to bond around particular technologies that happen to arise in the appropriate interval. So maybe you'll see the next prophet generation getting into hardcore transhumanist body enhancements or the like, but it won't be because the technology happens to come along, it'll be because they are generationally poised to want to adopt it.


But the difference is I'm not a techie or a computer nerd, and if you're Gen Y, you don't have to be, you take mass communications and creation and transmission of the arts with technology for granted, and you're some kind of outcast if you don't have these things, it does make you seem old or behind the times, and it's just a matter of course. That's what I think makes Gen Y different from Gen X in terms of technology, and why people in Gen Y could be defined by it. Even the oldest members of Gen Y had pagers in high school, even if they didn't have cell phones, and the youngest members of Gen Y all had cell phones in the 8th grade. We have known a world of globalization and a real shift toward a more and more rapidly advancing way of life for our entire lives. You can look at old media (I love history!!!!) and see the shift of how natural the 70's seemed compared to even the early 80's.

Anyway, I feel most bonded to Gen Y via Hipster Kitty.


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## bjoh249

Most sources put Gen Y as starting in 1980. People born in 1980-1983 came of age at the turn of the millennium. It was at the end of the 20th century and 2nd millennium and people who graduated high school right before it ended(born in 1979-81)had very little adult life in the previous century when they came of age. Not to mention there was still restrictions on their adulthood(drinking)until they were 21(which they turned after the 21st century had begun). People born in 1980-81 came of age with the internet and a focus on the coming new millennium. They were prepared solely for the 21st century in school, whereas people born in like 1971 would have been prepared for the 1990s and the remainder of the 20th century, along with the coming 21st century. The 1996 US presidential election was a very important election because it was a choice of who would lead America into the 21st century. President Clinton made his big "Bridge to the 21st century" vision speech at the DNC convention that same year. In his second inauguration speech in early 1997, Clinton made the speech almost all about going into the 21st century and the technologies that were coming, and improving upon the technologies that were already there(like the internet). The 2000 US presidential election was the first US presidential election that those born 1979-1982 were old enough to vote in, and it was the first election of any kind that those born in 1981 and 1982 were old enough to vote in. I was born in early 1981 and I don't remember a time without computers. I had a computer lab in my school starting in the 2nd grade and I was first introduced to the internet and e-mail when I was around 12.
There are some differences between the older Y generation(1980 to about 1985-1990) and the younger Y generation(1985-1990 to about 1999) though. Many of the younger ones have came of age with newer technologies the older Yers didn't have(such as the IPhone)and are more likely to be spoiled than the older Yers. I have also noticed that a lot of the younger Yers are a lot more likely to have more of an entitlement mentality than the older Yers


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## Lisa Jane

I am born 1978 and I see myself as Gen X not Y which seems to tie in with alot of the dates quotes in your posts. however I find that alot of Gen Xrs talk about some stuff from early 80s I barely remember. I do have a vauge memory of watching the Berlin wall come down with my mum, but up until that point I didnt even know it existed. - In Scotland you are an adult at 16 so _I_ did have 6 years as an adult before 2000, and I do remember my husband being the first person I knew to get a mobile, I was 19 at that point. technology wise as much as i love my internet now - I feel more of a gen X as i grew up without it . Nah actually guess i just see myself as a 90s chick, the bit inbetween X and Y.


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## bjoh249

Lisa Jane said:


> I am born 1978 and I see myself as Gen X not Y which seems to tie in with alot of the dates quotes in your posts. however I find that alot of Gen Xrs talk about some stuff from early 80s I barely remember. I do have a vauge memory of watching the Berlin wall come down with my mum, but up until that point I didnt even know it existed. - In Scotland you are an adult at 16 so _I_ did have 6 years as an adult before 2000, and I do remember my husband being the first person I knew to get a mobile, I was 19 at that point. technology wise as much as i love my internet now - I feel more of a gen X as i grew up without it . Nah actually guess i just see myself as a 90s chick, the bit inbetween X and Y.


In America and most of the rest of the world you become an adult at 18 or 21. The internet took off in the mid '90s here in America.


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