# Courage in the Face of Extremely Stupid People



## SeñorTaco (Jun 5, 2013)

Have you ever encountered someone who said something really wrong and you try to correct them? i.e. Common perceptions like how gravity is a fact and not theory.

Do you go on to correct them or do you stop in your tracks and decide to allocate these soon to be wasted energy on something more productive like watching the grass grow because you know for a fact that these people will not understand what you mean no matter what you tell them? Do you know what I'm saying?

Or just what do you naturally do when you have a need to correct someone? Do you even have a need to correct someone? 

I am on the verge of tears.


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## FreeBirdfood (Feb 13, 2014)

Oh man. I wholeheartedly understand. I'm the only INTJ in this town I live in. EVERYONE is wrong ALL THE TIME. They refuse to admit it even when I present them with an arsenal of facts and research papers.

My solution to surviving this onslaught of inbred ignorance? Sarcasm. 

Sarcasm is a beautiful thing. Not only will it appease you and those around who sympathize with your points of view, it'll offend anyone who is too idiotic to see how wrong they actually are, heck, it might even score a two-fer and make them realize how wrong they are while also being offended at the same time.

The great thing about offending with sarcasm is that everyone chuckles a little on the inside, so you won't lose friends unless it's all you do. Think of it like a sniper rifle, you don't have a lot of bullets, save them for when it counts.

It is a double-edged sword if you do not use it correctly though, using sarcasm against someone who has more facts than you will make you look like double the idiot you originally would have been.


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## SlightlyEccentric (Feb 13, 2014)

It may sound arrogant or bordering on narcissistic but there are just some people who I cannot be bothered spending so much energy/time on them explaining why they are wrong or how etc, I always used to have a need to correct people when they are wrong but then people started to get annoyed very quickly (shouldn't have got it wrong in the first place but apparently I'm the one always being "insensitive"). I'm often similar to the above, I react with extreme sarcasm these days (which people can get annoyed at to so I just gave up really caring, always going to annoy somebody no matter). I often got going to a religious school the misconception between what a scientific theory really is especially regarding evolution with the old "it's just a theory" rather than something that has been thoroughly observed and to occur through nature/the hypotheses being proved correct etc and all the steps required for something to actually be called a theory. 

I have a number of friends who annoy me sometimes with stupid comments, I prefer to be sarcastic and I have to remember to not appear condescending. I forgot to add, in response to you being on the verge of tears if you're being literal with that, is that because of how dumb some people are/having to tolerate them? If so I think a more useful way of thinking might be just being thankful you aren't like them (apologies yes that's insensitive I'm well aware but I prefer blunt honesty than sugarcoating things) roud:


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## PowerShell (Feb 3, 2013)

Most of the time I just ignore them because it's a waste of energy since they've already made up their minds and are too close-minded to consider the alternatives. Usually if they start complaining about Obama I just nod my head.


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## Deja Vu (Dec 26, 2009)

It's like people forget when they were ignorant. At some point I didn't know these things. So whether it be a semantic, scientific, or interpersonal error, I know I didn't always know. 

Still, stupidity is hard to take. Empathy and a touch of forgiveness helps. I have little patience with people who don't listen when being explained to, because a lack of humility amidst their thick headedness is ground works for a dead end. However, the same principle is required if you're going to architect a relationship. Also, you've got to weigh whether its worth building the relationship and why you're doing it. Is it for loyalty? Puppet? Business? Information? 

Remember, even now as you ask the forum this question, you are asking something someone knows far much more about - to a point of easily calling your lack of insight bafflingly idiotic - therefore use this fact as comparable to another's lack of intelligence.

So humble yourself with your weakness, dummy. And, then speak.


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## SlightlyEccentric (Feb 13, 2014)

Deja Vu said:


> It's like people forget when they we ignorant. At some point I didn't know these things. So whether it be a semantic, scientific, or interpersonal error, I know I didn't always know.
> 
> Still, stupidity is hard to take. Empathy and a touch of forgiveness helps. I have little patience with people who don't listen when being explained to, because a lack of humility amidst their thick headedness is ground works for a dead end. However, the same principle is required if you're going to architect a relationship. Also, you've got to weigh whether its worth building the relationship and why you're doing it. Is it for loyalty? Puppet? Business? Information?
> 
> ...


Although I don't think it was intended to me I thought I might as well reply, everyone is ignorant in one facet or another, I myself am ignorant when it comes to quantum mechanics or advanced physics for example (but it's a joy being in a position of learning about it because I have friends studying it at university which makes for intriguing discussions), I believe the more annoying thing is ignorance when combined with stubbornness or a pathological need to be right and refusing to admit that you are ignorant or wrong, I don't consider there anything to be wrong with ignorance alone, it is when that something is proven to be wrong and sometimes people then choose to still refuse to admit they were wrong or one that say's something initially as if it is fact without evidence. Given there are a number of definitions of ignorant though, one is lacking knowledge of which everyone is in one way or another. I probably labelled stupidity where stubborn ignorance is more appropriate (although it's kind of the same outcome in the end anyway), I do believe just because someone is more intelligent in terms of IQ (subjective anyway) it does not automatically give superiority and thought I might need to clear that up because my post may have made it sound like that just more so I find certain friends who are stubbornly ignorant or lacking logic to be borderline intolerable, I'm not going to change stupid for stubbornly ignorant in my initial post so I thought I might note that here.

Interesting profile picture/avatar by the way :happy:.


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## SeñorTaco (Jun 5, 2013)

SlightlyEccentric said:


> I forgot to add, in response to you being on the verge of tears if you're being literal with that, is that because of how dumb some people are/having to tolerate them? If so I think a more useful way of thinking might be just being thankful you aren't like them (apologies yes that's insensitive I'm well aware but I prefer blunt honesty than sugarcoating things) roud:


I don't mean it literally but wow this is frustrating. I am actually quite blunt, and I have to remember to be diplomatic at that and its hard, but people mistake it as an insult. I think I'm being kind by being blunt because I'm doing you a favour by mustering up some courage and telling you something up front instead of talking shit behind your back. AND THE LATTER IS APPARENTLY PREFERED OVER THE FORMER. I live in an Asian country and being outspoken (especially if you're a female) is equated to being rude. 

Better to be slapped with the truth than kissed with a lie.


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## SeñorTaco (Jun 5, 2013)

Deja Vu said:


> It's like people forget when they were ignorant. At some point I didn't know these things. So whether it be a semantic, scientific, or interpersonal error, I know I didn't always know.
> 
> Still, stupidity is hard to take. Empathy and a touch of forgiveness helps. I have little patience with people who don't listen when being explained to, because a lack of humility amidst their thick headedness is ground works for a dead end. However, the same principle is required if you're going to architect a relationship. Also, you've got to weigh whether its worth building the relationship and why you're doing it. Is it for loyalty? Puppet? Business? Information?
> 
> ...


When I say stupid, I mean you are stupid when you have a lack of knowledge in something and you _*choose*_ to limit your intake of knowledge/information.
But if you choose to break out of that mentality and be open to new insights, you stop being _stupid_ and you gain more knowledge/information. Of course it is always wise to discern which information is useful and which is useless. That can be done using simple rationalising by making use of previous knowledge. If previous knowledge isn't sufficient to back it up, do what you want to. Keep it on hold until more information comes in for you to further reinforce your stance on it or throw it away if you don't like it. REPEAT UNTIL SATISFIED. 

It is frustrating talking to people who are not willing to listen to other people's opinions and take it into consideration. 

We are all stupid but we have to keep an open mind to keep growing. I admit, I don't know much but I am willing to learn a thing or two as long as it proves to be something worthwhile.


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## PowerShell (Feb 3, 2013)

Deja Vu said:


> It's like people forget when they were ignorant. At some point I didn't know these things. So whether it be a semantic, scientific, or interpersonal error, I know I didn't always know.


If someone is open minded and willing to learn or see a different point of view, then fine. If they're stuck in their ways and nothing is going to change it, then that's what gets annoying.


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## Deja Vu (Dec 26, 2009)

yes, that's why I don't correct what people say much anymore. It isn't worth it. Let them figure it out themselves, especially if they've got enough redeemable traits. Why burn bridges or waste time. 

But it depends. Sometimes I like going off on dumbies once in a while. Its cathartic, especially if they need a putting in their place. More so than not, I don't care to fix stupid. Life normally has a way of doing that for me. Either they die off or we bang our heads up against reality to figure it out.


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## SlightlyEccentric (Feb 13, 2014)

SeñorTaco said:


> I don't mean it literally but wow this is frustrating. I am actually quite blunt, and I have to remember to be diplomatic at that and its hard, but people mistake it as an insult. I think I'm being kind by being blunt because I'm doing you a favour by mustering up some courage and telling you something up front instead of talking shit behind your back. AND THE LATTER IS APPARENTLY PREFERED OVER THE FORMER. I live in an Asian country and being outspoken (especially if you're a female) is equated to being rude.
> 
> Better to be slapped with the truth than kissed with a lie.



Interesting, after studying Chinese and Asian history, I had hoped the countries and as a continent/geographical area as a whole as time went on may have got slightly less misogynistic as time went on or valued women more maybe I was wrong, I take it in some places it definitely hasn't? I suppose the Chinese boys to girls ratio speaks for itself unfortunately or the Japanese adoption of adults so there is at least a male to inherit also does :sad:, people often say that they prefer honesty but I think it's just "I prefer honesty as long as you're not being honest and being negative towards me" haha, can I ask what actually brought it on, was it a trigger of one person recently saying something stupid or is it just a lot of friends in your life that annoy you or just people as a whole if you don't mind me asking (if you I am one who prefers to be told to f off) it was more just out of curiosity what triggered the starting of the topic to ask for advice.


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## Momentz (Nov 26, 2013)

Personally, I used to have an instinctive urge to correct others. Usually over a variety of topics, whether something small or minor. For example, if someone claimed that they have run out of lead, I'd snap back at them with something around the likes of "It's graphite". Eventually I had given up. I realized that there was no point in trying in that the world will always be full of the oblivious.

Now, I react with snark or don't react whatsoever.


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## SeñorTaco (Jun 5, 2013)

Mousike said:


> Eventually I had given up. I realized that there was no point in trying in that the world will always be full of the oblivious.
> 
> Now, I react with snark or don't react whatsoever.


That is a sound advice.


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## SeñorTaco (Jun 5, 2013)

SlightlyEccentric said:


> Interesting, after studying Chinese and Asian history, I had hoped the countries and as a continent/geographical area as a whole as time went on may have got slightly less misogynistic as time went on or valued women more maybe I was wrong, I take it in some places it definitely hasn't? I suppose the Chinese boys to girls ratio speaks for itself unfortunately or the Japanese adoption of adults so there is at least a male to inherit also does :sad:, people often say that they prefer honesty but I think it's just "I prefer honesty as long as you're not being honest and being negative towards me" haha, can I ask what actually brought it on, was it a trigger of one person recently saying something stupid or is it just a lot of friends in your life that annoy you or just people as a whole if you don't mind me asking (if you I am one who prefers to be told to f off) it was more just out of curiosity what triggered the starting of the topic to ask for advice.


Actually, in China especially, a lot asian countries are moving out of their misogynistic mindsets but it is still a deep rooted culture. I still hear my grandmother saying "Oh you can't say that/do that. You're a girl!" In China, girls are forced to marry off ASAP so that they can start their own family, regardless of whether or not they need to attend to their education. Boys are given rows of houses after they reach the age of 21 and girls can dream on.

many cases actually. the most common one is that a lot of people say things like "oh evolution is a fact, gravity is a fact" and i heat it off with Hume's Problem of Deduction and they respond with "You can't argue with science." or "Fact is a fact". These are easier to correct because wikipedia and all but i take it into a slight offense when someone says "women logic" when clearly, a lack of logic is due to a lack of proper education, not fucking ovaries but these are inherently harder to correct because of social constructs (remember, asians).

another thing happened today, was when i imparted an advice to someone and gave him my opinion on it. He said it was rude and inconsiderate that I had imparted such an advice when I ironically, i gave it a lot of thought and consideration. the problem was he was too offended that he never quite bothered to actually realise what i was trying to say. i tried to tell him what i meant and my reasoning behind it but wow he can just go suck a damn dick and hope he makes money out of that.

my final policy: don't impart advice unless asked. don't give a fuck about correcting anyone until you know for sure that person is willing to take it.


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## SlightlyEccentric (Feb 13, 2014)

SeñorTaco said:


> Actually, in China especially, a lot asian countries are moving out of their misogynistic mindsets but it is still a deep rooted culture. I still hear my grandmother saying "Oh you can't say that/do that. You're a girl!" In China, girls are forced to marry off ASAP so that they can start their own family, regardless of whether or not they need to attend to their education. Boys are given rows of houses after they reach the age of 21 and girls can dream on.
> 
> many cases actually. the most common one is that a lot of people say things like "oh evolution is a fact, gravity is a fact" and i heat it off with Hume's Problem of Deduction and they respond with "You can't argue with science." or "Fact is a fact". These are easier to correct because wikipedia and all but i take it into a slight offense when someone says "women logic" when clearly, a lack of logic is due to a lack of proper education, not fucking ovaries but these are inherently harder to correct because of social constructs (remember, asians).
> 
> ...


I don't want to offend with this comment but in terms of the deep rooted culture is it the "old guard" or the older generations halting progress in that change (generalising a lot)?

Haha sorry but I couldn't help but laugh at the last paragraph "when someone says "women logic" when clearly, a lack of logic is due to a lack of proper education, not fucking ovaries but these are inherently harder to correct because of social constructs (remember, asians)." I thought that was a rather brilliant comment. 

I am beginning to be more of the opinion of whether people take offense to something you say is not your problem and not your business either (that sounds bad I don't mean it to sound it), if you want to give your opinion you might as well what other people think about it and how they react if they are too emotionally immature to handle another persons opinion or if they take offense it is their problem, you can only handle your own reactions/emotions on it, I think if you give your opinion those that are willing to listen it's well worth annoying the few people who can't tolerate it to meet those that are like minded or are willing to accept (agreeing or not) of other opinions but that is just my opinion to interacting I often get criticised by friends for being too blunt or lacking tactfulness but I believe in emotional honesty.

In reply to the last sentence that could be the safer way to play it yes/the more diplomatic way whether it's the right way or not is not for me or anyone else to decide except you and if you are happy with taking that approach.
“My actions are my only true belongings. I cannot escape the consequences of my actions. My actions are the ground on which I stand.” "


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## SlightlyEccentric (Feb 13, 2014)

SeñorTaco said:


> Actually, in China especially, a lot asian countries are moving out of their misogynistic mindsets but it is still a deep rooted culture. I still hear my grandmother saying "Oh you can't say that/do that. You're a girl!" In China, girls are forced to marry off ASAP so that they can start their own family, regardless of whether or not they need to attend to their education. Boys are given rows of houses after they reach the age of 21 and girls can dream on.
> 
> many cases actually. the most common one is that a lot of people say things like "oh evolution is a fact, gravity is a fact" and i heat it off with Hume's Problem of Deduction and they respond with "You can't argue with science." or "Fact is a fact". These are easier to correct because wikipedia and all but i take it into a slight offense when someone says "women logic" when clearly, a lack of logic is due to a lack of proper education, not fucking ovaries but these are inherently harder to correct because of social constructs (remember, asians).
> 
> ...


Darn phone think it sent that reply twice.


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## aphinion (Apr 30, 2013)

I recently joined a new gymnastics team, and before that I always thought that most people were relatively intelligent. I was wrong. 
Once I told some of my teammates that if they could name the three types of particles that make up almost everything I would give them $10. I was hoping that someone would be able to name quarks, leptons, and bosons (especially because I'm not the oldest at the gym). However, I probably would have just taken protons, neutrons, and electrons. 

Some of my favorite answers were:
- "Oh, I know this one! Hydrogen and oxygen!" 
- "I dunno... Air?" 
- "I think dirt is one of them."
- "Water?"

The last one was from a 24 year old college graduate. I don't even bother trying to correct people anymore. I can't get halfway into an explanation before I lose them.


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## SeñorTaco (Jun 5, 2013)

aphinion said:


> I don't even bother trying to correct people anymore. I can't get halfway into an explanation before I lose them.


I used to always lose people when I talk about something. I thought something was wrong with me because nobody really spoke to me that much. LOL it actually affected my confidence for a while.


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## SlightlyEccentric (Feb 13, 2014)

aphinion said:


> I recently joined a new gymnastics team, and before that I always thought that most people were relatively intelligent. I was wrong.
> Once I told some of my teammates that if they could name the three types of particles that make up almost everything I would give them $10. I was hoping that someone would be able to name quarks, leptons, and bosons (especially because I'm not the oldest at the gym). However, I probably would have just taken protons, neutrons, and electrons.
> 
> Some of my favorite answers were:
> ...


Haha, hoping that someone might be able to name something like the boson or higgs-boson might have been a little ambitious :wink:, I only got half way through that wait someone said dirt?...Okay that's different, our physics classes never really truly went into that but generally think our teacher just noted the photon, boson and quarks but never anything more a pity, then again my physics teacher was the most black and white/boring teacher I've ever had (lovely person but terrible for inspiring people to learn), yeah I think asking for just proton, neutron and electrons for the general populous would have been ambitious enough to expect haha although I'd probably just expect the "positive and negative charge" rather than the name haha, I'm curious how did you tell them the answer or did you just tell them they were right for the sake of it lol?


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## PowerShell (Feb 3, 2013)

SeñorTaco said:


> I used to always lose people when I talk about something. I thought something was wrong with me because nobody really spoke to me that much. LOL it actually affected my confidence for a while.


It really sucks in this case because you are trying to convey a point and you can see the glazed over look in people's eyes and know how much you just went over their head.


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## Scelerat (Oct 21, 2012)

SeñorTaco said:


> Common perceptions like how gravity is a fact and not theory.


I've repeatedly made the argument "Well, gravity is only a theory just like evolution, why don't you go over there and jump off that building?" 

I also call myself an atheist, but I'm technically an agnostic, since nobody can really disprove the existence of a creating force at this point in our scientific development. It depends on why the error was made. The need to correct an error when it was made in order to reinforce a point bothers me more sometimes than someone making the mistake in the first place.


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## SlightlyEccentric (Feb 13, 2014)

Scelerat said:


> I've repeatedly made the argument "Well, gravity is only a theory just like evolution, why do you go over there and jump off that building?"
> 
> I also call myself an atheist, but I'm technically an agnostic, since nobody can really disprove the existence of a creating force at this point in our scientific development. It depends on why the error was made. The need to correct an error when it was made in order to reinforce a point bothers me more sometimes than someone making the mistake in the first place.


:laughing: That is pretty good in reply to the first sentence.

Don't most people just lump agnostics in with atheists anyway as "non believers" I know I could never get away with saying agnostic so it was just easier to say atheist?


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## Scelerat (Oct 21, 2012)

SlightlyEccentric said:


> :laughing: That is pretty good in reply to the first sentence.
> 
> Don't most people just lump agnostics in with atheists anyway as "non believers" I know I could never get away with saying agnostic so it was just easier to say atheist?


Well, for all intents and purposes I'm an atheist, but then you run into a debate with a religious person and you get that whole "atheism is a religion too" bullcrap, which derails the entire discussion and you end up explaining that the same logic would make not believing in Santa, the easter bunny and the tooth fairy religions. 

You end up having to have the "prove that god doesn't exist" arguments that are problematic because the existence of god is non-falsifiable. Then you bring up Karl Popper and falsification (in this case synonymous with testability) then they argue that you cannot prove or disprove god with logic. Then you bring up facts, and they argue that you cannot prove that god doesn't exist with facts. 

And so on ad infinitum.

It's the same thing with evolution, you start off arguing a form of "organisms adapt to their environment or perish" and you end up with them claiming that if evolution is a fact then a monkey should evolve into a human being. You get the arguments related to "micro" and "macro" evolution, which generally deals with increasing complexity of organisms, where a good example is computer science and processing power. 

It's easier to eliminate their bullshit a priori, which if you claim to be an agnostic means any argument to "my opponent claims there is no god" is a straw man, and thus every argument based on that is null and void. It also puts them in a position of having to prove god, rather than you proving that god does not exist.


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## Blindspots (Jan 27, 2014)

There are some people I know trying to argue/reason with will end up futile. For them, a (visible) facepalm.


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## Peter (Feb 27, 2010)

SeñorTaco said:


> Have you ever encountered someone who said something really wrong and you try to correct them? i.e. Common perceptions like how gravity is a fact and not theory.
> 
> Do you go on to correct them or do you stop in your tracks and decide to allocate these soon to be wasted energy on something more productive like watching the grass grow because you know for a fact that these people will not understand what you mean no matter what you tell them? Do you know what I'm saying?
> 
> ...


I know what you mean. It's extremely annoying. But then there is this magical word "context". When you analyze people's mistakes in the context they made the mistake, you'll find that often (not always) those mistakes aren't a real problem. That doesn't mean they were right. It just means that if corrected, the outcome wouldn't be any different.

Maybe being an INTJ means I'm slightly less annoyed with the stupidity of others than INTP's are. In the end you have to keep in mind that in the eyes of others, you too make horrible mistakes. And you can be sure it's mistakes of which you think it's totally an utterly not important, just like what they think of mistakes that you point out to them.

Knowing these things, I really do prefer to ignore most mistakes of others, unless of course it has an important impact on something that matters to me. In that case I will be blunt.


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## Blindspots (Jan 27, 2014)

^Agreed.

On a more serious note than my first answer, I also think it's important to consider the logical consequences of how you react (whether to correct, to dismiss, etc.). Difficult to predict the outcomes when dealing with people, but it may be worth thinking about if something important is at stake.


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## Momentz (Nov 26, 2013)

Scelerat said:


> Well, for all intents and purposes I'm an atheist, but then you run into a debate with a religious person and you get that whole "atheism is a religion too" bullcrap, which derails the entire discussion and you end up explaining that the same logic would make not believing in Santa, the easter bunny and the tooth fairy religions.
> 
> You end up having to have the "prove that god doesn't exist" arguments that are problematic because the existence of god is non-falsifiable. Then you bring up Karl Popper and falsification (in this case synonymous with testability) then they argue that you cannot prove or disprove god with logic. Then you bring up facts, and they argue that you cannot prove that god doesn't exist with facts.
> 
> ...


I personally could care less about religions. I tend to reflect this in that I prefer to not delve into the topic of religion, I rarely think about it, and I rarely slap a label onto myself. If I do, I'd have to say that apatheism would be a pretty accurate portrait for me. Though I go by atheism for convenience, since I can grow tiresome of giving explanations to others.


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## aphinion (Apr 30, 2013)

SlightlyEccentric said:


> Haha, hoping that someone might be able to name something like the boson or higgs-boson might have been a little ambitious :wink:, I only got half way through that wait someone said dirt?...Okay that's different, our physics classes never really truly went into that but generally think our teacher just noted the photon, boson and quarks but never anything more a pity, then again my physics teacher was the most black and white/boring teacher I've ever had (lovely person but terrible for inspiring people to learn), yeah I think asking for just proton, neutron and electrons for the general populous would have been ambitious enough to expect haha although I'd probably just expect the "positive and negative charge" rather than the name haha, I'm curious how did you tell them the answer or did you just tell them they were right for the sake of it lol?


Yeah, I think quarks, bosons, and leptons was asking for a bit too much... Though I was pretty surprised that no one could could even name the parts of an atom. I thought people learned that stuff in elementary school!!!

After all that I tried to explain to the 24 year old that water doesn't make up everything and then she tried to justify that "maybe rocks are kind of water" and at that point I think I just got kind of mad and left.


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## SlightlyEccentric (Feb 13, 2014)

aphinion said:


> Yeah, I think quarks, bosons, and leptons was asking for a bit too much... Though I was pretty surprised that no one could could even name the parts of an atom. I thought people learned that stuff in elementary school!!!
> 
> After all that I tried to explain to the 24 year old that water doesn't make up everything and then she tried to justify that "maybe rocks are kind of water" and at that point I think I just got kind of mad and left.


I'm trying not to be judgemental because I don't want to sound arrogant but that kind of answer makes me a little umm sad, most of the sporting teams I play on have had someone doing a science based major at university of some sort so they'd certainly be able to name the parts of an atom, so I can't really say my sporting teammates are dumb (boring to me but not dumb especially not about science anyway)

Has that inspired you to look for a new team or just not going to try such conversation topics again?


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## aphinion (Apr 30, 2013)

SlightlyEccentric said:


> I'm trying not to be judgemental because I don't want to sound arrogant but that kind of answer makes me a little umm sad, most of the sporting teams I play on have had someone doing a science based major at university of some sort so they'd certainly be able to name the parts of an atom, so I can't really say my sporting teammates are dumb (boring to me but not dumb especially not about science anyway)
> 
> Has that inspired you to look for a new team or just not going to try such conversation topics again?


I felt exactly the same way! Part of my soul died during the conversation. I understand that not everyone is as into science as I am, but I thought that there was a certain level of basic knowledge I could expect from people. 

Actually, I ask more questions now. They're still dead wrong 95% of the time, but I've learned to have fun with it.


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## XO Skeleton (Jan 18, 2011)

I can utterly, completely, and totally relate to your situation. Just last week I had to talk to a customer who was literally dumber than a bag full of hammers. She was pretty hot though. An easy 8.5/10 if 6ou like skinny chicks. If not then she was a 7. In any event she was not very bright so it made total sense when she said she was a stripper. I would have had a better conversation if I was talking to a brick wall. Walls don't talk back so it'd be like I was talking to myself. 

To answer your question, if the person seems too far gone, or like one of my supervisors, has his head so far up his ass he can't possibly be wrong, I say nothing. Fuck em. Let them burn in ignorance for their own stupidity, lack of knowledge, and or arrogance.


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## SlightlyEccentric (Feb 13, 2014)

XO Skeleton said:


> I can utterly, completely, and totally relate to your situation. Just last week I had to talk to a customer who was literally dumber than a bag full of hammers. She was pretty hot though. An easy 8.5/10 if 6ou like skinny chicks. If not then she was a 7. In any event she was not very bright so it made total sense when she said she was a stripper. I would have had a better conversation if I was talking to a brick wall. Walls don't talk back so it'd be like I was talking to myself.
> 
> To answer your question, if the person seems too far gone, or like one of my supervisors, has his head so far up his ass he can't possibly be wrong, I say nothing. Fuck em. Let them burn in ignorance for their own stupidity, lack of knowledge, and or arrogance.


I can certainly appreciate external beauty but if later on I can't have an intellectual or mentally stimulating conversation with them then it's just lust haha, that might make me sound like an elitist prick but I can't really help it haha, happened in the past relationship with an externally pretty person but just not intellectually stimulating (and not nice if she had have been nice might have been up for it haha)

Do you find having a supervisor like that extremely annoying? I mean having to put up with someone who couldn't possibly be wrong or unable to disagree with be like dealing with a tyrant everyday I imagine.


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## XO Skeleton (Jan 18, 2011)

SlightlyEccentric said:


> I can certainly appreciate external beauty but if later on I can't have an intellectual or mentally stimulating conversation with them then it's just lust haha, that might make me sound like an elitist prick but I can't really help it haha, happened in the past relationship with an externally pretty person but just not intellectually stimulating (and not nice if she had have been nice might have been up for it haha)
> 
> Do you find having a supervisor like that extremely annoying? I mean having to put up with someone who couldn't possibly be wrong or unable to disagree with be like dealing with a tyrant everyday I imagine.


I feel you on that. Beauty is good but I need brains too. As far as the supervisor, it's kinda funny because even the other supervisors don't like him. He likes to delegate and micro manage like a boss... in a bad way. 

We're all pretty laid back here but he hates being on the receiving end of a joke. He'll walk away with his tail tucked lol.

He hates to be wrong but it does happen. When it does, some of us make sure he knows. This guy thinks he's so smart. One of the local police departments is hiring. He, along with my direct supervisor failed the written. I passed. I have no intention of becoming a cop. I did it just to prove a point.


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## SlightlyEccentric (Feb 13, 2014)

XO Skeleton said:


> I feel you on that. Beauty is good but I need brains too. As far as the supervisor, it's kinda funny because even the other supervisors don't like him. He likes to delegate and micro manage like a boss... in a bad way.
> 
> We're all pretty laid back here but he hates being on the receiving end of a joke. He'll walk away with his tail tucked lol.
> 
> He hates to be wrong but it does happen. When it does, some of us make sure he knows. This guy thinks he's so smart. One of the local police departments is hiring. He, along with my direct supervisor failed the written. I passed. I have no intention of becoming a cop. I did it just to prove a point.


Indeed. Micro-manage in the way that once he delegates he's over your shoulder every five seconds making you wonder why he didn't just do it himself?

What was the test like haha, was it difficult or easy? (I'm hoping you say difficult so they had a bit of an excuse haha)


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## XO Skeleton (Jan 18, 2011)

SlightlyEccentric said:


> Indeed. Micro-manage in the way that once he delegates he's over your shoulder every five seconds making you wonder why he didn't just do it himself?
> 
> What was the test like haha, was it difficult or easy? (I'm hoping you say difficult so they had a bit of an excuse haha)


Sadly the test was incredibly easy. I'd imagine damn near any INTP could pass it. It was a multi part test. Reading, writing, sentence comprehension, minor memorization, and report writing. 

The kicker that got my supervisiors was the video test. It's a human relations test where the officer goes through a scenario. Then it asks, "what should the officer do?" A b c d? Pretty basic stuff. To be honest I was surprised they failed and I passed considering they actually want to be officers. 

Anyway next month I have the physical ability test. I know I can pass it but I want to ace it.


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## PowerShell (Feb 3, 2013)

XO Skeleton said:


> Sadly the test was incredibly easy. I'd imagine damn near any INTP could pass it. It was a multi part test. Reading, writing, sentence comprehension, minor memorization, and report writing.


Probably like the ASVAB. I think I got like a 90 out of 94 or something like that. I think you only need a 30-35 to enlist, depending on the branch. I think officers need a 70.



> The kicker that got my supervisiors was the video test. It's a human relations test where the officer goes through a scenario. Then it asks, "what should the officer do?" A b c d? Pretty basic stuff. To be honest I was surprised they failed and I passed considering they actually want to be officers.


Was taser an option on all of them? How about yell at them about your authority and not cooperating will get you thrown in jail for obstructions of justice? What state is this for? Is it one of the states that arrest people for everything (one thing I notice from certain states is they arrest people for the stupidest stuff whereas here they just write you a ticket and tell you to get on your way).


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## Orchidion (Jan 3, 2013)

aphinion said:


> Yeah, I think quarks, bosons, and leptons was asking for a bit too much... Though I was pretty surprised that no one could could even name the parts of an atom. I thought people learned that stuff in elementary school!!!
> 
> After all that I tried to explain to the 24 year old that water doesn't make up everything and then she tried to justify that *"maybe rocks are kind of water"* and at that point I think I just got kind of mad and left.


I laughed so hard at the bold part. Either she is a follower of Thales ontology or just plain stupid. 

What bugs me about these people is not that their education is lacking. Everyone has gaps in their knowledge. But an adversity to obtaining new information and discarding flawed notions is just ridiculous.


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## XO Skeleton (Jan 18, 2011)

PowerShell said:


> Probably like the ASVAB. I think I got like a 90 out of 94 or something like that. I think you only need a 30-35 to enlist, depending on the branch. I think officers need a 70.
> 
> 
> 
> Was taser an option on all of them? How about yell at them about your authority and not cooperating will get you thrown in jail for obstructions of justice? What state is this for? Is it one of the states that arrest people for everything (one thing I notice from certain states is they arrest people for the stupidest stuff whereas here they just write you a ticket and tell you to get on your way).


No. Nothing like the asvab. That god awful long test. My score on asvab was 93. My gt score was 110. There were like only 3 jobs I couldn't get. I remember one dude said he failed it twice lol.

Anyway to answer you smart ass questions, nothing like that. One scenario there was a woman threatening suicide. The multiple choices were something like A. Talk to the woman about her troubles. B. Call your supervisor and ask him what to do. C. Draw your weapon and order her to drop the knife. D. Do nothing and wait for a hostage negotiatior. I chose A.

The city I'm applying for don't arrest people just cause. It's a high crime area so unless you're doing some serious shit they will let you go. 

Also the city I'm applying for don't carry tasers. I bet you oscar grant wish he got the taser rather than the bullet, but I digress.


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## SeñorTaco (Jun 5, 2013)

Scelerat said:


> I've repeatedly made the argument "Well, gravity is only a theory just like evolution, why don't you go over there and jump off that building?"
> 
> I also call myself an atheist, but I'm technically an agnostic, since nobody can really disprove the existence of a creating force at this point in our scientific development. It depends on why the error was made. The need to correct an error when it was made in order to reinforce a point bothers me more sometimes than someone making the mistake in the first place.


Yes but just because it holds true so far, does not mean that at some point somewhere out there or in here, the theory can be proven false. The reason why all theories stay theories, in my opinion, is because you can never assume that all swans are white just because you've never seen a black one before.

In any case, I see what you mean. Not everyone shares the same sentiments as I do when it comes to definitions; we all have different interests in life I guess. Some people just like to know things as it is.


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## SeñorTaco (Jun 5, 2013)

SlightlyEccentric said:


> I don't want to offend with this comment but in terms of the deep rooted culture is it the "old guard" or the older generations halting progress in that change (generalising a lot)?
> 
> I am beginning to be more of the opinion of whether people take offense to something you say is not your problem and not your business either (that sounds bad I don't mean it to sound it), if you want to give your opinion you might as well what other people think about it and how they react if they are too emotionally immature to handle another persons opinion or if they take offense it is their problem, you can only handle your own reactions/emotions on it, I think if you give your opinion those that are willing to listen it's well worth annoying the few people who can't tolerate it to meet those that are like minded or are willing to accept (agreeing or not) of other opinions but that is just my opinion to interacting I often get criticised by friends for being too blunt or lacking tactfulness but I believe in emotional honesty.
> 
> ...


I guess it's the old guard, because a lot of the same people take importance in traditions and while I understand that it is a virtue of its own (it's kinda hard to explain…) some practices are a huge inconvenience (no cleaning in any way during chinese new year: what if i spill a glass of coke?????????) to me so I choose to break some taboos here and there.

But yeah, I think it's important to stand your ground and be blunt if that's your policy, ya know? Do you and I agree, bother not with other people's incapability to come to terms with the truth.


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## PowerShell (Feb 3, 2013)

I'm debating whether using a snowblower on the roof is a smart idea to efficiently get snow off the roof or isn't the brightest idea.


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## SeñorTaco (Jun 5, 2013)

Peter said:


> I know what you mean. It's extremely annoying. But then there is this magical word "context". When you analyze people's mistakes in the context they made the mistake, you'll find that often (not always) those mistakes aren't a real problem. That doesn't mean they were right. It just means that if corrected, the outcome wouldn't be any different.
> 
> Maybe being an INTJ means I'm slightly less annoyed with the stupidity of others than INTP's are. In the end you have to keep in mind that in the eyes of others, you too make horrible mistakes. And you can be sure it's mistakes of which you think it's totally an utterly not important, just like what they think of mistakes that you point out to them.
> 
> Knowing these things, I really do prefer to ignore most mistakes of others, unless of course it has an important impact on something that matters to me. In that case I will be blunt.


I was really angry when I wrote the title, so I mean stupid in the loosest sense. I just can't stand people who wouldn't listen. But that's a good point right there, I shouldn't let other people's mistakes bother me too much unless if it affects me directly. It's just hard to ignore when they get cocky confident over something you *know* is wrong, ya know what I mean?


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## SeñorTaco (Jun 5, 2013)

XO Skeleton said:


> I can utterly, completely, and totally relate to your situation. Just last week I had to talk to a customer who was literally dumber than a bag full of hammers. She was pretty hot though. An easy 8.5/10 if 6ou like skinny chicks. If not then she was a 7. In any event she was not very bright so it made total sense when she said she was a stripper. I would have had a better conversation if I was talking to a brick wall. Walls don't talk back so it'd be like I was talking to myself.
> 
> To answer your question, if the person seems too far gone, or like one of my supervisors, has his head so far up his ass he can't possibly be wrong, I say nothing. Fuck em. Let them burn in ignorance for their own stupidity, lack of knowledge, and or arrogance.


The worst ones are those who are so damn cocky arrogant with their answers and you're just like "wow ok wow what do i wow what ok no but no ugh" because you sort of know that there's no point of return once you start correcting them.



PowerShell said:


> I'm debating whether using a snowblower on the roof is a smart idea to efficiently get snow off the roof or isn't the brightest idea.


I'm not sure if that will work… Unless if she packs a strong blow.


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## PowerShell (Feb 3, 2013)

SeñorTaco said:


> I'm not sure if that will work… Unless if she packs a strong blow.


It's a 2 stage, self driven one. I'm guessing if I leave 1-2 inches (there's like 2 feet of snow on there) and go slow, it should be fine. Also start at the peak and work my way down until there's about 5-6 feet of roof left and do the rest by hand. If I leave that 5-6 feet, the knee-high snow show prevent the snowblower from sliding sideways off the roof. Just take it slow and easy. Also my buddy is going to help me out (so we can get on the road faster to Winnipeg) so I could have him stand on the ground on the opposite end and hold a rope connected to the snowblower to keep it stabilized. It's a pain shoveling it.


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## SeñorTaco (Jun 5, 2013)

PowerShell said:


> It's a 2 stage, self driven one. I'm guessing if I leave 1-2 inches (there's like 2 feet of snow on there) and go slow, it should be fine. Also start at the peak and work my way down until there's about 5-6 feet of roof left and do the rest by hand. If I leave that 5-6 feet, the knee-high snow show prevent the snowblower from sliding sideways off the roof. Just take it slow and easy. Also my buddy is going to help me out (so we can get on the road faster to Winnipeg) so I could have him stand on the ground on the opposite end and hold a rope connected to the snowblower to keep it stabilized. It's a pain shoveling it.


I wouldn't really know how strong a strong snowblower should be because ya I'm tropical as f and we don't have to worry much about the weather. But that sure sounds like a long time on the roof and out in the cold. Don't fall off and die lol have a pack of capri sun every 30 mins


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## Scelerat (Oct 21, 2012)

SeñorTaco said:


> Yes but just because it holds true so far, does not mean that at some point somewhere out there or in here, the theory can be proven false. The reason why all theories stay theories, in my opinion, is because you can never assume that all swans are white just because you've never seen a black one before.
> 
> In any case, I see what you mean. Not everyone shares the same sentiments as I do when it comes to definitions; we all have different interests in life I guess. Some people just like to know things as it is.


I agree with your first part, at some point humanity given certain presuppositions could disprove the existence of a first cause. Every theory could likewise be proven false, and will I can say with almost certainty be amended. 

However, I think the bigger issue in debates about "theory" vs "fact" is the difference in the scientific definition of the word "theory" and the colloquial one. I like knowing "facts" and I may have a different threshold for calling something a "fact" than other people do. Unfortunately, if one draws the line like you do with your swan example (is that Hume or am I mistaken?) nothing could ever be considered a fact. 

I could even argue that historical facts, such as the year someone died is dependent on a linear understanding of time, the acceptance of a given calendar, which unit one uses to count hours, and a load of other factors. However, from my perspective if there is an argument between two such sides, the generally accepted one should be adopted. 

However, from a strict Ocham's razor perspective, I would argue that Atheism is more sound than Theism. The bigger debate comes between Deism and Atheism. One could almost argue that you have positive and negative agnosticism, wherein Deism is the positive one.


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## SeñorTaco (Jun 5, 2013)

Scelerat said:


> I agree with your first part, at some point humanity given certain presuppositions could disprove the existence of a first cause. Every theory could likewise be proven false, and will I can say with almost certainty be amended.
> 
> However, I think the bigger issue in debates about "theory" vs "fact" is the difference in the scientific definition of the word "theory" and the colloquial one. I like knowing "facts" and I may have a different threshold for calling something a "fact" than other people do. Unfortunately, if one draws the line like you do with your swan example (is that Hume or am I mistaken?) nothing could ever be considered a fact.


I like to keep them all as theories, as constant works in progress. Maybe someone else could change all of that for us, I always think there's bound to be something that needs fixing.



Scelerat said:


> However, from a strict Ocham's razor perspective, I would argue that Atheism is more sound than Theism. The bigger debate comes between Deism and Atheism. One could almost argue that you have positive and negative agnosticism, wherein Deism is the positive one.


I couldn't say I believe in something like Deism, I just take things like it is. I don't believe in a deity either, I have always said it in this forum: God is just something people made up to answer really complex questions ("Why are we here? Who put us here?") and put their souls at peace so that they can sleep easy at night. I would connect more with agnosticism in this case, negative I assume, where everything can constantly be known and there is no limit to what can be known.


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## Scelerat (Oct 21, 2012)

SeñorTaco said:


> I like to keep them all as theories, as constant works in progress. Maybe someone else could change all of that for us, I always think there's bound to be something that needs fixing.


Sure you can do that, but then what kind of arguments can you make? I like to assume that scientific theories are accurate in principle but fuzzy in some of the details




> I couldn't say I believe in something like Deism, I just take things like it is. I don't believe in a deity either, I have always said it in this forum: God is just something people made up to answer really complex questions ("Why are we here? Who put us here?") and put their souls at peace so that they can sleep easy at night. I would connect more with agnosticism in this case, negative I assume, where everything can constantly be known and there is no limit to what can be known.


Deism is more or less the belief in a first cause, the definition or description of which does not exist.


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## Bahburah (Jul 25, 2013)

Don't even try...


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## SlightlyEccentric (Feb 13, 2014)

aphinion said:


> I felt exactly the same way! Part of my soul died during the conversation. I understand that not everyone is as into science as I am, but I thought that there was a certain level of basic knowledge I could expect from people.
> 
> Actually, I ask more questions now. They're still dead wrong 95% of the time, but I've learned to have fun with it.


I don't think as many people are into thinking very much these days let alone being into science or generally anything as intellectual as something like science (at least that's the general view of at least most of my friends)

Haha , so taking the slightly more secretly condescending approach? :laughing:


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## aphinion (Apr 30, 2013)

SlightlyEccentric said:


> I don't think as many people are into thinking very much these days let alone being into science or generally anything as intellectual as something like science (at least that's the general view of at least most of my friends)
> 
> Haha , so taking the slightly more secretly condescending approach? :laughing:


I know, and it's a damn shame. Science is pretty amazing. Then again, I think most things are amazing. I don't know how people shut their brains to knowledge. 

Oh, I'm always condescending :wink: Just now I know that with these people I have more wiggle room to be a jerk because they don't understand me.


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## Snoopy (Jun 5, 2013)

> I am on the verge of tears.


Oh dear god aren't we all


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## d.coybunny (Feb 3, 2014)

Quote [ _These are easier to correct because wikipedia and all but i take it into a slight offense when someone says "women logic" when clearly, a lack of logic is due to a lack of proper education, not fucking ovaries but these are inherently harder to correct because of social constructs (remember, asians)_. ]

This gets me too. The claim that women are inherently illogical is in every culture in some form or another. Yesterday I was talking for long time with male friends and said something a little bluntly, by accident through pure tiredness. The person at the receiving end looked at me and said, “Ooo...that time of the month, is it?” I don’t know this person well, so he may have been just trying to make a joke to lighten the atmosphere. However, at this stage I got annoyed and then more annoyed because I realised that I had let him annoy me. I replied, “No, thanks for asking. But, wow, someone disagrees with you and it’s because of slight fluctuations in their endocrine system, possibly producing semi-mythical effects on logic and reasoning. It couldn’t possibly be that your logic is flawed and your counter argument is invalid.” [I really, really wanted to add something about being able to buy a desk calendar with a random reason supplied everyday of why people might be disagreeing with him (a la Bastard Operator from Hell, if anyone remembers that). Tue 15th: sunspots. Wed 16th: lead paint. Thurs 17th: ovaries. Glad I didn’t now because, as I type it out, I realise that my sense of humour is mostly only funny to me].

As for the stupid people discussion, in general: 

Quote [ _I am on the verge of tears._ ]

This is usually an emotional reaction, in a debate/ argument, when you feel frustrated. However, you do sometimes have to ask whether you are frustrated solely because they seem too stupid to get the point, or whether you are actually failing to explain the point properly. I get frustrated when I’m trying to simplify or translate an intricate system of shiny spinning concepts in my mind, to words that they will understand, and I can’t seem to do it properly (especially if there’s the pressure of racing against 'someone’s short attention span’ time). It might not be that they lack the intelligence to understand but that I lack the intelligence to explain concepts appropriately for them. 

Then again, sometimes it’s obvious that-to get someone up to your level of reasoning is going to take hours with diagrams, powerpoint presentations and, possibly, sock puppets-then it’s time to bow out gracefully.


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## Auxuris (Feb 28, 2014)

HAHAHA 

i read the title of this post and seriously got it man *i get you so much*

My first instinct is to help, but in certain situations it has to be considered:

I first decide if its worth my time depending on:
- the person 
» matter to me?
» bothers enough to understand?
- the amount of time i have
- have i addressed it before

If the person makes no effort to remember the previous times I've pointed it out it will get on my nerves.
If the person doesn't matter -> refer to response 2/3
Generally if I don't mind pointing out the problem to someone I want to help, time doesn't matter to me even if I have a lecture that starts in half a minute.

Unless the problem is huge which would get me thinking:
- will it affect _*me*_ in the future
- what will i even get out of this


I have only three responses:
- explain in great detail, patience and humour until the person understands 
(emphasis on helping and doing the best job possible)
- switch around serious and kidding tones/information to mess/confuse the person even more 
(emphasis on your own entertainment)
- sardonically explain it efficiently and accurately -and sometimes- in a way the person obviously will not understand 
(emphasis on tone and speed and resulting satisfaction)

take your pick
[note that there is no option for -ignore- because i can't possibly do that if i'm within hearing distance idek why]
On the rarest of occasions I say 'I don't know' if its something incredibly obvious, yeah, I still _have to say something._


For example, I have a friend who asks the most stupid questions ever.
Like no I am not kidding or trying to be mean its a facthing and I'm not the only one who shares this view.
yes facthing is a word shh

*Example if I'm feeling the need to be entertained:*
-in class doing a physics worksheet on optics (topic here: angles of reflection/refraction)-
*Friend:* So angle r is twice angle i?
-shown on the screen for the past five minutes, emphasised and explained by teacher since fifteen minutes ago, easier shit than square root of 25-
*Me:* Oh.. no -helpful tone-, I think angle i might be half the amount of angle r, -reference to previous math lesson tone- like y'know how half the angle at the centre of a circle is twice the angle at the circumference? -bullshit content-
[friend confused, pauses and decides to stop considering my latter statement]
*Friend:* This is physics, not math. -derogatory tone that implies i don't know what she means-
*Me:* -oh haha oops tone- Angle i might be half the amount of angle r. -repeated trash-
*Friend:* But why?
*Me:* Hmm.. well.. -makes a show of looking at my notes- I think they've explained it better over there. -time wasting-
-i point at screen and friend looks up-
Friend: But it says there its equal!
_Me inside - *no kidding* man _
*Me:* Exactly! -grins cheerfully-

If I like the friend, I'd laugh out loud and pat him/her on the shoulder after that.
If I don't like the 'friend', I'd snort derisively and continue me work.

*Example if friend has already asked a variation of the question and I've already explained:*
and if i have an audience, _very likely_ if i have an audience yes
-in class doing a physics worksheet on optics (topic here: angles of reflection/refraction)-
*Friend:* So angle r is twice angle i?
-shown on the screen for the past five minutes, emphasised and explained by teacher since fifteen minutes ago, easier shit than square root of 25-
*Me:* _Obviously not._ They are equal, otherwise we'd be blind from all the excess light. Doubt you'll find much difference though.

The best THE BEST thing, is that friend would be offended at my tone, _not the implications of my last sentence_.

_Everything else possibly in my head: Would you like me to read the screen for you? Or maybe I could read your worksheet aloud too. And do it for you because you don't seem capable of progressing past question- oh sorry, what questions?_

after reading this the only sentence you'd have in your head is likely
this kid is a freaking _asshole_

yes, yes imma jerk and pretty proud of it >:3


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## SeñorTaco (Jun 5, 2013)

Auxuris said:


> *Example if I'm feeling the need to be entertained:*
> -in class doing a physics worksheet on optics (topic here: angles of reflection/refraction)-
> *Friend:* So angle r is twice angle i?
> -shown on the screen for the past five minutes, emphasised and explained by teacher since fifteen minutes ago, easier shit than square root of 25-
> ...


Oh my god speaking of people in school, there was this time where this girl was like "Why is the tree green? How do you know for sure if it's green?" and I just gave her the typical answer like "Oh it's just the way your eye perceives it blah blah blah it's not actually green" and then she asks me "So what colour is it actually?" and I just stared at her like what 
the
fuck
bitch

what

are you even

what

HOW DO YOU EXPECT ME TO WHAT

and i just looked at her and was like "Green."


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## Auxuris (Feb 28, 2014)

SeñorTaco said:


> Oh my god speaking of people in school, there was this time where this girl was like "Why is the tree green? How do you know for sure if it's green?" and I just gave her the typical answer like "Oh it's just the way your eye perceives it blah blah blah it's not actually green" and then she asks me "So what colour is it actually?" and I just stared at her like what
> the
> fuck
> bitch
> ...


i choked
i died
i came back to choke again


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## OkWhat (Feb 28, 2014)

But gravity is a theory!! Hahaha It's call the "Theory of general relativity" and even Einstein knew it was incomplete because the equations go infinite when applied to really small, really massive objects, like a black hole. Anyways, there is a lot of holes in the current excepted model of gravity and every scientist refers to as theory. However, if you retort then jump off the building as a counter, well, what can say. :tongue:


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