# What do men think of women?



## Marshmallow Moo (Sep 19, 2011)

This thread could go in any temperament board, but I figured that NTs would give the most honest answer. 

Anyway, I've always had the impression that many men think women to be less capable than them. Whenever I'm with a guy, they always feel obligated to tell me what I should and shouldn't do, like they're "taking care" of me. I don't like this. It makes me feel like they think they are superior to me. This is obviously not the case for every guy; I know I'm making some generalization that could be deemed "sexist." But tell me the truth: do guys tend to look down on women? 

(P.S. I understand that this answer could vary depending on what culture you're in. I just want to know your personal experience.)


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## Nuu (Nov 10, 2010)

my currently boyfriend is 'taking care' of me because he doent thing i can handle my economy my self.. which is pissing me off since i can be by my selv not needing him to pay eveything, i know this is a common thing wirth guys but never tried anything like it..

(how ever i still love him with all of my heart)

also i thing its something that have passed though generations from back in the stone age and so on.. the women cared for the children and the man protected the family and made sure they had food to eat...


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## Popinjay (Sep 19, 2011)

Marshmallow Moo said:


> This thread could go in any temperament board, but I figured that NTs would give the most honest answer.
> 
> Anyway, I've always had the impression that many men think women to be less capable than them. Whenever I'm with a guy, they always feel obligated to tell me what I should and shouldn't do, like they're "taking care" of me. I don't like this. It makes me feel like they think they are superior to me. This is obviously not the case for every guy; I know I'm making some generalization that could be deemed "sexist." But tell me the truth: do guys tend to look down on women?
> 
> (P.S. I understand that this answer could vary depending on what culture you're in. I just want to know your personal experience.)


I was raised to be chivalrous...you hold the door for ladies, you pull the chair out for ladies, etc. I'm most comfortable with a girl who is appreciative of these gestures...so I can just be myself.

The smartest person I know is an older friend of mine who is female and is an I.T. consultant (I work in I.T.). She is my Yoda...I go to her for guidance, both technical and life wisdom. I can't over-emphasize my respect for her intellect, wisdom, and INTJ wit. I feel more secure about projects and ideas when she gives her blessing.

So, no, I absolutely don't look down on women and consider those who do to be neanderthals. Intelligence, capability, and talent are not on the same axis as manners. And if I were dating a woman who hated chivalry and wanted to be treated 100% equally, I would have no issue with doing so (but it would take some work to re-train myself to not be chivalrous with her and I'd probably piss her off for a while getting adjusted. With that said, if I were very attracted to her, I'd be more than happy to adjust).

I also find women who are smarter than me to be insanely attractive...they make me crazy.


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## Chipps (Jun 1, 2011)

Nuu said:


> my currently boyfriend is 'taking care' of me because he doent thing i can handle my economy my self.. which is pissing me off since i can be by my selv not needing him to pay eveything, i know this is a common thing wirth guys but never tried anything like it..
> 
> (how ever i still love him with all of my heart)
> 
> also i thing its something that have passed though generations from back in the stone age and so on.. the women cared for the children and the man protected the family and made sure they had food to eat...


so whats your point? that men think women are weak? needing to be taken care of? i can fuck with that. most women are weak and do need to be taken care of.


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## Chipps (Jun 1, 2011)

Marshmallow Moo said:


> This thread could go in any temperament board, but I figured that NTs would give the most honest answer.
> 
> Anyway, I've always had the impression that many men think women to be less capable than them. Whenever I'm with a guy, they always feel obligated to tell me what I should and shouldn't do, like they're "taking care" of me. I don't like this. It makes me feel like they think they are superior to me. This is obviously not the case for every guy; I know I'm making some generalization that could be deemed "sexist." But tell me the truth: do guys tend to look down on women?
> 
> (P.S. I understand that this answer could vary depending on what culture you're in. I just want to know your personal experience.)


I think you teach people how to treat you. So I think what men think of women is sort of a reaction to how women think of themselves. Does that make sense? I guess one could argue that its also true the other way around. As a woman, speaking in general terms I think that men in my culture (i.e. america) think that women need/want to taken care of and protected. They think that women are more passive and submissive. I think alot of men treat it like its innate. BUT that also holds true for alot of women. Women think of themselves in that same manner so who is the finger technically pointed at? Who are we blaming? 

Also, no one can "make" you feel inferior to them. Its only if you allow it. If a man goes to pull a chair out for you simply tell him that you can do it. Thats what I would do. Why would that be a problem? It could be that he was raised to think that this is the correct thing to do, which is fine, but by declining I think that you are showing him thats not how you want to be treated. I let it be know upfront. It is what it is and they usually respect it. 

Sure, some men will treat you like you are incapable but you cant control their assumption so why try? At the end of the day all you can do is show them that you are very capable. They wouldnt be able to deny that right. Ultimately though I think alot of women bring it on themselves. To them its desirable to behave like dainty, little damsels in distress. So if you want to be like that then you're asking to be treated as such. A man cant force you to let him take care of you. Thats just ridiculous. Laughable really.


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## Stephen (Jan 17, 2011)

Marshmallow Moo said:


> Whenever I'm with a guy, they always feel obligated to tell me what I should and shouldn't do, like they're "taking care" of me. I don't like this. It makes me feel like they think they are superior to me. This is obviously not the case for every guy; I know I'm making some generalization that could be deemed "sexist." But tell me the truth: do guys tend to look down on women?


I think that it's not uncommon for men to look down on women in most of the world's societies. It's pretty much impossible to grow up in any society without taking on some of the perceptions of that society. It takes a lot of attention to break such habits.

It's interesting how common your experience seems to be among women I've discussed this with. In my experience, most of these men don't realize that their "caretaking" behavior is not helpful or positive, and can be taken as a statement of "you can't do this for yourself" or "you can't be trusted to do this for yourself." I operated this way for a long time and had to have it explained to me by one of my exes before I really thought about it. Every woman is different of course, but it seems to me that unsolicited advice can easily look like an effort to control.

My girlfriend likes me to be protective, supportive and nurturing, but that's something she appreciates because she knows it's not being done out of a need to control, and that I don't need to rescue her, but if she asks for help I'm there.


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## NeedsNewNameNow (Dec 1, 2009)

By default, I've usually assumed people were roughly equally capable. But then real-world observation shatters that preconceived notion. 

I like intelligent, capable women. Those are the ones I'm drawn to, someone who can be an equal. But unfortunately, a good chunk of the female population do either need or want to be taken care of.


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## antiant (Jul 4, 2010)

Sounds like the classic Damsel in Distress. Since this is in the NT subforum, I'm going to speak generalities here. Generally speaking, I would say NT women do not have this problem as those types of men wouldn't be attractive in the first place. In fact, my first reaction to someone like that would be, "FUCK YOU, FUCK NO, FUCK OFF." "NTs" generally want an equal or a slightly higher competent partner, so if you are having that problem, you may want to look at yourself? I have NEVER had this experience because I wouldn't be attracted to a guy like this, nor a woman, whether it's platonic or romantic.


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## L (Aug 12, 2011)

Popinjay said:


> I was raised to be chivalrous...you hold the door for ladies, you pull the chair out for ladies, etc. I'm most comfortable with a girl who is appreciative of these gestures...so I can just be myself.
> 
> So, no, I absolutely don't look down on women and consider those who do to be neanderthals. Intelligence, capability, and talent are not on the same axis as manners. And if I were dating a woman who hated chivalry and wanted to be treated 100% equally, I would have no issue with doing so (but it would take some work to re-train myself to not be chivalrous with her and I'd probably piss her off for a while getting adjusted. With that said, if I were very attracted to her, I'd be more than happy to adjust).


I prefer to be chivalrous and I agree with pretty much everything that was said by Popinjay, except however the having a guru thing, I don't really have a guru male or female lol.


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## absentminded (Dec 3, 2010)

Most women I have encountered are irrational, annoying and I often worry that I'll break them in half if I sneeze. I don't generalize because I have met several women I respect greatly on a highly intellectual level.

I take women the same way I take personality types: as individuals.



Chipps said:


> so whats your point? that men think women are weak? needing to be taken care of? i can fuck with that. most women are weak and do need to be taken care of.


I would say that many even _want_ someone to take care of them. Think about it. The average girl spends her childhood watching Disney princess movies and fantasizing about prince charming. They want a man to get them an expensive diamond ring. They want to sit at home while their husband goes out and makes tons of money. Et cetera.


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## Marshmallow Moo (Sep 19, 2011)

antiant said:


> Sounds like the classic Damsel in Distress. Since this is in the NT subforum, I'm going to speak generalities here. Generally speaking, I would say NT women do not have this problem as those types of men wouldn't be attractive in the first place. In fact, my first reaction to someone like that would be, "FUCK YOU, FUCK NO, FUCK OFF." "NTs" generally want an equal or a slightly higher competent partner, so if you are having that problem, you may want to look at yourself? I have NEVER had this experience because I wouldn't be attracted to a guy like this, nor a woman, whether it's platonic or romantic.


I've never dated anyone. I'm just talking about people I meet. It's pretty hard to avoid every man in the world who acts this way, considering there are many. I avoid people who act superior to me, but I get this sense MOST men look down on me (usually non-NTs. NTs I don't think have a tendency to do this). Whenever I do something, it's always something like... Well, that's cool, but here's a BETTER way to do it! Now be impressed with me! And I'm always like... :dry: 

I don't think it has anything to do with me. Maybe you're just lucky? Idk.


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## antiant (Jul 4, 2010)

Marshmallow Moo said:


> I've never dated anyone. I'm just talking about people I meet. It's pretty hard to avoid every man in the world who acts this way, considering there are many. I avoid people who act superior to me, but I get this sense MOST men look down on me (usually non-NTs. NTs I don't think have a tendency to do this). Whenever I do something, it's always something like... Well, that's cool, but here's a BETTER way to do it! Now be impressed with me! And I'm always like... :dry:
> 
> I don't think it has anything to do with me. Maybe you're just lucky? Idk.


*shrug* I'm not really a people person, so I don't interact with a lot of people to begin with. At any rate, it's not a male thing or female thing, it's individually based. I suppose it can be annoying, but then why entertain those ideas and those types of people in the first place? Just move on, would be a better way to handle these things I would think.

Also, EL OH FUCKING EL @absentminded


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## Cheebye (Mar 9, 2011)

I wont say I look down on them as women have their merits(talking, sex and taking care of kids), but you cannot deny the simple fact that women are weaker(physically) and this translates in them being less capable than men in.... life.


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## DlusionAl (Apr 9, 2011)

Cheebye said:


> I wont say I look down on them as women have their merits(talking, sex and taking care of kids), but you cannot deny the simple fact that women are weaker(physically) and this translates in them being less capable than men in.... life.


So being physically stronger means in general being better at life?


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## kudi (Sep 27, 2011)

> I've never dated anyone


:shocked:

Hmm, i think its out of proportion to say most guys look down on women. Men on first meeting a women have tunnel vision, we are not exactly thinking about your intellect. So you have to work harder than a guy to get them to see more than your body.

Most guys treat women the way they see it in movies (society & culture), which they apply into real life. Being chivalrous and protecting women has everything to do the perception of what it is to be a man and feeling needed. As much as men would like to deny, we *need* to feel needed, that we have purpose. When that need is met and we are praised by our lady like heroes, we feel on top of the world.

So they way men treat women has less to do us looking down on you and more to do with us feeling masculine and our need to like the knight and shining amour that saves the day.


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## MoonLight (Apr 15, 2010)

The way men and women view their gender roles are affected by their society/culture and how they brought up at home (also the interaction between their parents). Whatever the way men and women are affected by the previous points the most important thing is that women are treated with respect (this depends on the woman in question and how she likes to be treated).


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## MegaTuxRacer (Sep 7, 2011)

Popinjay said:


> I was raised to be chivalrous...you hold the door for ladies, you pull the chair out for ladies, etc. I'm most comfortable with a girl who is appreciative of these gestures...so I can just be myself.
> 
> The smartest person I know is an older friend of mine who is female and is an I.T. consultant (I work in I.T.). She is my Yoda...I go to her for guidance, both technical and life wisdom. I can't over-emphasize my respect for her intellect, wisdom, and INTJ wit. I feel more secure about projects and ideas when she gives her blessing.
> 
> ...


I am basically in this boat too. I don't really look at chivalry as a sort of misogynistic attempt to show a woman I am better than her. It is an act of humility to me. I have a tremendous amount of respect for women. That goes from homemakers to corporate executives. No job is easy, and anyone who puts their fair share towards society earns points with me.


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## Cheebye (Mar 9, 2011)

DlusionAl said:


> So being physically stronger means in general being better at life?


Yes. To put it crudely, a man can kill a woman much easier than the other way round. More control=superior.


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## DlusionAl (Apr 9, 2011)

Cheebye said:


> Yes. To put it crudely, a man can kill a woman much easier than the other way round. More control=superior.


But physical strength isnt everything. Otherwise humans would have been whipped out centuries ago.


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## kudi (Sep 27, 2011)

@DlusionAl & @Cheebye

Its turning into a pissing contest, be thoughtful and trade private messages instead.


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## absentminded (Dec 3, 2010)

DlusionAl said:


> So being physically stronger means in general being better at life?


Apparently.


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## Sovereign (Aug 19, 2011)

Marshmallow Moo said:


> Whenever I do something, it's always something like... Well, that's cool, but here's a BETTER way to do it!


Actually, this sounds JUST like an ENTJ. It has nothing to do with gender, though. We just do that. It's an efficiency thing. I do it to all my friends. ENTJs have SUPERIOR self-confidence. If there's something you could be doing "better," you'll know about it. I've actually dealt with this before. If someone chooses to inject gender into that conversation, I'd likely just leave. I can't deal in fairy tales.



Marshmallow Moo said:


> Now be impressed with me!


This doesn't sound like me. I know some ENTJs can be egotistical, but I think the majority of us just do what we do because it's what we're wired for. We don't expect applause for everything.


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## Popinjay (Sep 19, 2011)

L_Lawliet said:


> I prefer to be chivalrous and I agree with pretty much everything that was said by Popinjay, except however the having a guru thing, I don't really have a guru male or female lol.


Two there are...no more...no less: a master and an apprentice.



Cheebye said:


> I wont say I look down on them as women have their merits(talking, sex and taking care of kids), but you cannot deny the simple fact that women are weaker(physically) and this translates in them being less capable than men in.... life.


I think I missed the post where you said which bridge you live under.



Cheebye said:


> Yes. To put it crudely, a man can kill a woman much easier than the other way round. More control=superior.


Not if she has a gun, a taser, a knife, martial arts training, is a female body-builder, can scream really loud, is...


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## DlusionAl (Apr 9, 2011)

absentminded said:


> Apparently.


I need to start working out more


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## WoodeyJ (Aug 20, 2011)

Cheebye said:


> Yes. To put it crudely, a man can kill a woman much easier than the other way round. More control=superior.


*shoots you in the face*

Oddly, that was a cinch.


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## Marshmallow Moo (Sep 19, 2011)

Cheebye said:


> Yes. To put it crudely, a man can kill a woman much easier than the other way round. More control=superior.


-Men are physically stronger, but women are physically more flexible.
-There are more certified male geniuses than female geniuses, but there are also more certified male retardees than female retardees. (The language is not meant to be offensive!)
-Men have greater ability at spacial memory, but women have greater ability at language memory.
-There is no certified difference in mathematics skills between the genders (and the differences that occur later in life have been successfully attributed to societal expectations due to how teachers treat the genders. For more information, message me.)
-Women are generally better at deciphering emotions, men are generally better at deciphering machines
-There is no certified IQ difference between the genders (their aggregate scores are similar)
-Women tend to think in in terms to their close relationships, while men tend to think in terms to the groups the belong to (i.e. I am a daughter vs. I am an American)

These are the only major confirmed differences between male and female behavior. The research suggests that where one lacks, the other doesn't. Even so, many of these differences can still be attributed to how children are raised. So who is superior? The answer is neither--they are equal. Science says so.


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## Snakecharmer (Oct 26, 2010)

Cheebye said:


> I wont say I look down on them as women have their merits(talking, sex and taking care of kids), but you cannot deny the simple fact that women are weaker(physically) and this translates in them being less capable than men in.... life.


Hi, I'm SnakeCharmer. I'm a former powerlifter, and can deadlift 240 pounds, leg-press 600, and full-squat 195 (and I'm 5'1 and 130 lbs). I have taken a couple of years of martial arts and self-defense. I also am very good at shooting, and have a concealed-carry permit. In addition, I kick ass at air hockey - I'm undefeated so far. Men hate playing me.

I won't even get started on the rest of my ass-kicking qualities.

:wink:


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## MegaTuxRacer (Sep 7, 2011)

Snakecharmer said:


> Hi, I'm SnakeCharmer. I'm a former powerlifter, and can deadlift 240 pounds, leg-press 600, and full-squat 195 (and I'm 5'1 and 130 lbs). I have taken a couple of years of martial arts and self-defense. I also am very good at shooting, and have a concealed-carry permit. In addition, I kick ass at air hockey - I'm undefeated so far. Men hate playing me.
> 
> I won't even get started on the rest of my ass-kicking qualities.
> 
> :wink:


All of those numbers that you can lift are more than I have ever weighed. 

Oh hello there. Oh you want me to fuck off? I can do that.




Cheebye said:


> I wont say I look down on them as women have their merits(talking, sex and taking care of kids), but you cannot deny the simple fact that women are weaker(physically) and this translates in them being less capable than men in.... life.


Surely you're trolling. I mean seriously, you have got to be trolling.


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## Snakecharmer (Oct 26, 2010)

mkeath said:


> All of those numbers that you can lift are more than I have ever weighed.
> 
> Oh hello there. Oh you want me to fuck off? I can do that.


:laughing:

I am lucky enough to have access to an amazing strength-training gym with a nationally-ranked female powerlifter as a manager. I was taught (and pushed) by some of the best in the business. Unfortunately, I haven't reached my strength potential due to a bad car accident (head-on collision) in 2007. It's been a bit of a struggle since.


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## L (Aug 12, 2011)

Cheebye said:


> Yes. To put it crudely, a man can kill a woman much easier than the other way round. More control=superior.


I was going to post a picture of some uber muscled chick and say something like "Say's the puny little man" or something like that....but I bing searched it and you do not want to know what came up.....

Also if you think men have an easier time killing then women....think again. Watch deadly women. Plus most people with this kind of thinking also relax their guard around (what you sound like you believe) weak women therefore are more susceptible of being ensnared in a trap of feminine charm....and after you get seduced you wake up to a knife in your throat (or hell maybe you dont' even get that far, perhaps you just turn around and bam! right in the back of the neck, or anything else). There are more ways to kill then straight up face to face y'know.

EDIT: sure in a straight up fair fight 9 times out of 10 we men would PROBABLY, not always, win. However have you ever seen a fair life and death fight?


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## MegaTuxRacer (Sep 7, 2011)

Snakecharmer said:


> :laughing:
> 
> I am lucky enough to have access to an amazing strength-training gym with a nationally-ranked female powerlifter as a manager. I was taught (and pushed) by some of the best in the business. Unfortunately, I haven't reached my strength potential due to a bad car accident (head-on collision) in 2007. It's been a bit of a struggle since.


See like you I haven't met my strength potential. However, it wasn't because of a car crash. I just have never lifted weights.


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## CCCXXIX (Mar 11, 2011)

Marshmallow Moo said:


> Anyway, I've always had the impression that many men think women to be less capable than them.


Nope, I think they are just as capable, but I do think they have a harder time shutting off emotions for the sake of objectivity (not a bad thing, wish I was more like that tbh). 

I'm probably going to get lambasted for saying that, but that's just my observation.


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## nonnaci (Sep 25, 2011)

like any other human being.... except with pussies. 

I blame biology and millenniums of genetic conditioning for turning my right brain into this stupid antenna.


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## Marshmallow Moo (Sep 19, 2011)

CCCXXIX said:


> Nope, I think they are just as capable, but I do think they have a harder time shutting off emotions for the sake of objectivity (not a bad thing, wish I was more like that tbh).
> 
> I'm probably going to get lambasted for saying that, but that's just my observation.


No, I'm sure that's an accurate observation. It could be due to the 70-30 ratio. I.e. 70 percent of women are Feelers, 30 percent are Thinkers. 70 percent of men are Thinkers, 30 percent are Feelers. Feelers have a harder time shutting off their emotions for the sake of objectivity. In other words, a person's gender correlates with this observation, but it doesn't necessarily cause the observation. Why more women are Feelers and more men are Thinkers can be debated. Some research shows that in gender-neural countries like Sweden the 70-30 ratio becomes more like the 50-50 ratio. Just something to consider.


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## adizzy (Aug 6, 2011)

Sovereign said:


> Actually, this sounds JUST like an ENTJ. It has nothing to do with gender, though. We just do that. It's an efficiency thing. I do it to all my friends. ENTJs have SUPERIOR self-confidence. If there's something you could be doing "better," you'll know about it. I've actually dealt with this before. If someone chooses to inject gender into that conversation, I'd likely just leave. I can't deal in fairy tales.
> 
> 
> 
> This doesn't sound like me. I know some ENTJs can be egotistical, but I think the majority of us just do what we do because it's what we're wired for. We don't expect applause for everything.


Hey Sovereign...ENTJ here so I dont understand feelings at all. I saw your sig. ENTJ_Evil over Lord. I guess I understand the overlord part, but if you or I did the behavior above...."that's cool but...."why is that considered evil?


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## adizzy (Aug 6, 2011)

It's tough to make generalizations....I guess there are some woman I respect tremendously and would do anything for....these tend to be a little older than me. For woman my age it can be frustrating because of the dichotomy. I have woman say..."no, im a girl thats not my job." as in them calling me back or starting a conversation etc. then you have some girls that get offended if you pull out a chair. But threads like this always help me remember that people are individuals and its always dangerous to make generalizations.

As a side note, I live in America, and one thing that has infected everyone (generalization hahahahahah...goodtimes) in this country is victimhood. men woman children we are all victims for some reason. I cant stand that.


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## Magnificent Bastard (Sep 22, 2010)

I find ultra-feminine and vulnerable, yet intelligent, women to be hot. 

I also don't mind certain gender roles. Everything seems to fit. If a woman can cook better than me (which is likely because of their generally better multitasking ability) then I will defer cooking to her. It's just common sense in my mind.

And male and female role exist for a reason--because they're natural. We fall into our roles because it's the most efficient way our species can be run.


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## Magnificent Bastard (Sep 22, 2010)

Snakecharmer said:


> Hi, I'm SnakeCharmer. I'm a former powerlifter, and can deadlift 240 pounds, leg-press 600, and full-squat 195 (and I'm 5'1 and 130 lbs). I have taken a couple of years of martial arts and self-defense. I also am very good at shooting, and have a concealed-carry permit. In addition, I kick ass at air hockey - I'm undefeated so far. Men hate playing me.
> 
> I won't even get started on the rest of my ass-kicking qualities.
> 
> :wink:


You're probably not a typical woman then. Am I wrong? I mean, given your qualities, what makes you a woman and what will make you fight for women?


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## nevermore (Oct 1, 2010)

CCCXXIX said:


> Nope, I think they are just as capable, but I do think they have a harder time shutting off emotions for the sake of objectivity (not a bad thing, wish I was more like that tbh).
> 
> I'm probably going to get lambasted for saying that, but that's just my observation.


Yeah I'm a bit of a wannabe F/F admirer and this is actually something about a lot of women (not the overwhelming majority that you'd think) that I admire. I don't see what is so bad about having an emotional investment in something - it adds richness to our lives and gives us a reason to live beyond mere challenge.



Marshmallow Moo said:


> No, I'm sure that's an accurate observation. It could be due to the 70-30 ratio. I.e. 70 percent of women are Feelers, 30 percent are Thinkers. 70 percent of men are Thinkers, 30 percent are Feelers. Feelers have a harder time shutting off their emotions for the sake of objectivity. In other words, a person's gender correlates with this observation, but it doesn't necessarily cause the observation. Why more women are Feelers and more men are Thinkers can be debated. Some research shows that in gender-neural countries like Sweden the 70-30 ratio becomes more like the 50-50 ratio. Just something to consider.


These statistics make sense, since scores have shown a bit of a gender bias in systemizing/empathizing. I think 70-30 might be a bit of an overstatement. Studies show women tend to be better at interpreting emotions, but not by a large margin - there is a lot of overlap (so much so I think Cohen was wrong to call it the "essential difference" - female systemizing brains are still pretty different from systemizing male brains - but it is still definitely there). I suspect this reflects type distribution.


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## Snakecharmer (Oct 26, 2010)

Magnificent Bastard said:


> You're probably not a typical woman then. Am I wrong? I mean, given your qualities, what makes you a woman and what will make you fight for women?


Can you be more specific? I'm not sure what you mean by "typical woman". Your last question has me confused, too...what do you mean "fight for women?"

Thanks!


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## Sovereign (Aug 19, 2011)

adizzy said:


> Hey Sovereign...ENTJ here so I dont understand feelings at all. I saw your sig. ENTJ_Evil over Lord. I guess I understand the overlord part, but if you or I did the behavior above...."that's cool but...."why is that considered evil?


It's not. I got the title from a site that gave each type a wacky villain name. I think INTJ was evil mastermind and ENTP was mad scientist. I forgot the others.


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## Slider (Nov 17, 2009)

I think women are crazy...at least, that's my experience. I have yet to meet a woman who possesses any semblance of sanity.

There are also times when I will tell a woman what to do, mainly because they either do something wrong or have no idea what they're doing.


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## Souljorn (Dec 28, 2010)

what is babymakers?


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## dalsgaard (Aug 14, 2010)

Marshmallow Moo said:


> This thread could go in any temperament board, but I figured that NTs would give the most honest answer.
> 
> Anyway, I've always had the impression that many men think women to be less capable than them. Whenever I'm with a guy, they always feel obligated to tell me what I should and shouldn't do, like they're "taking care" of me. I don't like this. It makes me feel like they think they are superior to me. This is obviously not the case for every guy; I know I'm making some generalization that could be deemed "sexist." But tell me the truth: do guys tend to look down on women?
> 
> (P.S. I understand that this answer could vary depending on what culture you're in. I just want to know your personal experience.)


I've been trying to think of examples, but I can't find any. I'd say that men don't look down on women, at least not in my country. Gender has become a non-issue, the same way we don't really discuss religion or status.

Don't get me wrong, I hear some derogatory statements from time to time in exclusively male company. But these comments tend to be jokes, bravado, or just non-serious remarks. Sometimes i hear sexual comments as well, but these tend to be generally appreciative, not oppressive or condescending.

Actually, I find that women are the ones who tend to bring this up. Some women try to look weak in mens eyes for a variety of reasons. A lot of women have done that to me to make me help them do some physical labor, repair electronic equipment, or help them solve math problems. They play the whole "I'm woman, I'm not good with tech"-card. While I gladly offer my help, I know it's a bit silly. Women get better grades than men in all educational institutions, and far more women are getting degrees in higher education.

EDIT: Actually, it could just be the people I surround myself with. There probably are a lot of guys out there who look down on women (Men on the street were asked the same question in a Danish documentary I once saw, and there were a couple of outrageous statements, but I figure the amount of people who were derogatory was highly exaggerated and dramatized. That has more to do with how TV works, than how gender works).

What about women? Do they look down on men?


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

I like women when they
- are independent (as opposed to just saying they are)
- are good at communicating (women are usually much easier to talk to than men. women actually listen to you and try to help you, men tend to try to compete with you and prey on you if you have a problem. of course, this is also very type specific)
- comforting
- good conversationalists


I don't like women when they
- nag
- play blame games
- become emotionally neurotic
- have a sense of expectation that you do something for them
- act as the PC police
- whiny
- feel entitled to things

overall, I don't usually like most American women, but I liked most of the women I've met overseas.


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## Transcendence (Apr 25, 2011)

Cheebye said:


> Yes. To put it crudely, a man can kill a woman much easier than the other way round. More control=superior


Did you know that women are more skilled at murder than men? 
And did you know that women are better at the military than men?


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## dalsgaard (Aug 14, 2010)

TheOpenDoor said:


> Did you know that women are more skilled at murder than men?
> And did you know that women are better at the military than men?


Really? How so?


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## Krutz (Oct 11, 2011)

Marshmallow Moo said:


> No, I'm sure that's an accurate observation. It could be due to the 70-30 ratio. I.e. 70 percent of women are Feelers, 30 percent are Thinkers. 70 percent of men are Thinkers, 30 percent are Feelers. Feelers have a harder time shutting off their emotions for the sake of objectivity. In other words, a person's gender correlates with this observation, but it doesn't necessarily cause the observation. Why more women are Feelers and more men are Thinkers can be debated. Some research shows that in gender-neural countries like Sweden the 70-30 ratio becomes more like the 50-50 ratio. Just something to consider.


You know where i can find these studies, i would be very interested to read them.
I have lived my entire life in Sweden and this sounds way off, i would say that the 70-30 sounds far more plausible.


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## Transcendence (Apr 25, 2011)

dalsgaard said:


> Really? How so?


Women have a firmer, steadier grip on the gun and they're better at concentrating.  
The first one is actually old news, seeing as the Russians used women as snipers because of that fact. 
And the concentrating part is rather fresh news. 

Now the murderer part is actually quite interesting. Typically, men kill when enraged and don't plan well. 
However, women are way more passionate about and plan it all out. They usually get away with it too. 
Trust me on this, women make good psychopaths.


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## absentminded (Dec 3, 2010)

TheOpenDoor said:


> Trust me on this, women make good psychopaths.


Old news.

PMS = Psycho Man Slayer :dry:


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## Transcendence (Apr 25, 2011)

I know it's old news, but apparently, some people are VERY old.


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## Marshmallow Moo (Sep 19, 2011)

Krutz said:


> You know where i can find these studies, i would be very interested to read them.
> I have lived my entire life in Sweden and this sounds way off, i would say that the 70-30 sounds far more plausible.


Huh. Interesting. You know, I could do some digging. It's one of those things that I had read somewhere but I can't be sure where. Maybe I'm completely off. I'll look it up and message you the info when I can. 

And that's cool that you live in Sweden! I've always loved that country, and Swedish is a beautiful language. It's considered to be one of the most gender-neutral countries in the world. From your experience, do you think this is true?


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## dalsgaard (Aug 14, 2010)

TheOpenDoor said:


> Women have a firmer, steadier grip on the gun and they're better at concentrating.
> The first one is actually old news, seeing as the Russians used women as snipers because of that fact.
> And the concentrating part is rather fresh news.
> 
> ...


I know that women get away with murder more often, because the murderous actions tend to be more deliberate. Favorite weapon in the arsenal among female killers is poison. I still have a hard time believing the bit about the military though, it's a career that require a lot of strength and stamina. On top of that, their whole skeletal system is more prone to breakage. I suppose some are strong and athletic enough to work with men on equal footing, but not all. I suppose it's just a matter of placing people correctly. I hear that the female body is better at withstanding huge g-forces, and that steady hand you were talking about would probably also do wonders in a jet-fighter. In Denmark we have conscription, meaning that a lot of men who have enlisted in the past didn't go by choice, but because they were drafted to fulfill the governments quota of a healthy military. Women are not forced into the military in the same way, which means that those who go really want to be there -> better soldier.

But I hardly see how these things make women 'better at the military than men', objectively speaking.

EDIT: And what about pregnancy?


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## Magnificent Bastard (Sep 22, 2010)

TheOpenDoor said:


> Women have a firmer, steadier grip on the gun and they're better at concentrating.
> The first one is actually old news, seeing as the Russians used women as snipers because of that fact.
> And the concentrating part is rather fresh news.
> 
> ...


Isn't rage a passion?


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## dalsgaard (Aug 14, 2010)

Marshmallow Moo said:


> Huh. Interesting. You know, I could do some digging. It's one of those things that I had read somewhere but I can't be sure where. Maybe I'm completely off. I'll look it up and message you the info when I can.
> 
> And that's cool that you live in Sweden! I've always loved that country, and Swedish is a beautiful language. It's considered to be one of the most gender-neutral countries in the world. From your experience, do you think this is true?


I'd love to know this as well. Especially, I'd like to know about the discussions on equality in other Scandinavian countries. Denmark was placed number two in UN's gender inequality index last year: http://hdr.undp.org/en/media/HDR_2010_EN_Table4_reprint.pdf but recently there has been very little talk about equality in Danish media and politics. Other countries are often surprised at our indifference toward gender issues, for example, our first female prime minister was just elected a couple of weeks back. When international media interviewed the Danish population, they were baffled, because Danes said that gender wasn't the issue at all:






I think you reach a point where you're not really thinking about gender on these terms. Mind you, inequalities still exist, but the debate died out in the beginning of this millennium, safe for certain radical groups still going strong. It has become... Unseemly to talk about these issues. I don't know if people have become complacent, or if there is nothing left to fight for.


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## Transcendence (Apr 25, 2011)

Magnificent Bastard said:


> Isn't rage a passion?


Yes, it is. But it's simpler.


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## dalsgaard (Aug 14, 2010)

@TheOpenDoor
How are discussions about gender equality going in Norway? Can you relate to what I wrote in post #55?


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## Transcendence (Apr 25, 2011)

dalsgaard said:


> @TheOpenDoor
> How are discussions about gender equality going in Norway? Can you relate to what I wrote in post #55?


Norway's stance on sexuality can easily be summed up, like this: Meh. 

It's no stress. We're actually very relaxed about it. 
However, we have this thing called Jante Law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. 
The Jante Law is very well described in that article. 

I think it definitely affects how we express our sexuality and how we converse. 
We drink to feel courage. Courage to speak up and to dress down. 

It's hard to explain. We're not very good on romance.


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## dalsgaard (Aug 14, 2010)

TheOpenDoor said:


> Norway's stance on sexuality can easily be summed up, like this: Meh.
> 
> It's no stress. We're actually very relaxed about it.
> However, we have this thing called Jante Law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
> ...


I think you completely misunderstood my question, but no matter.

Hvis i drikker for at få mod, så tegner det ikke godt at jeres alkohol er så dyr.


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## Ac1992 (Oct 12, 2011)

I come from a very conservative Catholic oriented Mexican/Texan culture. To the point where women still belong in the household and the man working.

Me personally? I want my girl to be independent, at the same time I want us both to be dependent to each other to a degree. I mean, that's apart of being in a relationship right?

I also agree with Popinjay, I was raised to be chivalrous too.


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## Magnificent Bastard (Sep 22, 2010)

L_Lawliet said:


> A difference in opinions I suppose.


Then why do women generally dress up sexy to please a man, eventually cook for him and follow his lead when he is strong and assertive? 

It's in a woman's interest to do/be these things because it's these qualities that will win them a most attractive provider and lover.


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## Runvardh (May 17, 2011)

bionic said:


> Well... most bitches be crazy. My cousin plays stupid all the time.... but now I'm beginning to believe she actually IS stupid since nothing intelligent ever comes from her anymore. That sad part is that she's going to be a teacher.


*shudders* Thanks for the warning... Then again, if I ever have kids, I would prefer homeschooling them if I can.


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## L (Aug 12, 2011)

Magnificent Bastard said:


> Then why do women generally dress up sexy to please a man, eventually cook for
> him and follow his lead when he is strong and assertive?


Perhaps to show love for/to an S.O.?

Also if you want to argue about them doing things like dressing up sexy when single, it is obviously to attract somebody, but don't we men do the same EXACT thing (just a different kind of sexy).



> It's in a woman's interest to do/be these things because it's these qualities
> that will win them a most attractive provider and lover.


Again, perhaps there is some kind of feeling going on.....such as appreciation?

Women aren't tools (although some of them are, same as some men can be tools :laughing: but enough jokes) they are human beings. While it might have been true back 3k years ago when it was actually in their best interest to showcase these qualities to gain a protector, it is not the case anymore, time for change.

If I had an S.O. as you describe I wouldn't be happy, I would rather have a partner then a slave.


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## Magnificent Bastard (Sep 22, 2010)

L_Lawliet said:


> Perhaps to show love for/to an S.O.?
> 
> Also if you want to argue about them doing things like dressing up sexy when single, it is obviously to attract somebody, but don't we men do the same EXACT thing (just a different kind of sexy).
> 
> ...


Would you say that employees following a charismatic, capable and visionary CEO are slaves?


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## L (Aug 12, 2011)

Magnificent Bastard said:


> Would you say that employees following a charismatic, capable and visionary CEO are slaves?


So you want your partner(s) to work for you?


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## Magnificent Bastard (Sep 22, 2010)

L_Lawliet said:


> So you want your partner(s) to work for you?


Perhaps follow my lead. Lots of women look for a man they can follow anyway.


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## bionic (Mar 29, 2010)

Runvardh said:


> *shudders* Thanks for the warning... Then again, if I ever have kids, I would prefer homeschooling them if I can.


Yeah, if my child turned out gifted or started to have issues at school. I would definitely homeschool them.


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## Marshmallow Moo (Sep 19, 2011)

Magnificent Bastard said:


> Perhaps follow my lead. Lots of women look for a man they can follow anyway.


People like you make me want to throw up. Just a warning, in case I ever meet you. You should probably carry around a change of clothes, just to be safe.

(PS The sad thing is, you're right. But there are also a lot of men who look for women they can follow. Trust me, I've seen it in action. Don't think for one second that it's just a female problem.)


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## The Prince (Oct 22, 2011)

Marshmallow Moo said:


> People like you make me want to throw up. Just a warning, in case I ever meet you. You should probably carry around a change of clothes, just to be safe.
> 
> (PS The sad thing is, you're right. But there are also a lot of men who look for women they can follow. Trust me, I've seen it in action. Don't think for one second that it's just a female problem.)


I don't get why your getting agressive. Could he have said something that conficts with your principles?

The name of this thread itself should tell you things like this will happen.

Anyways I don't have a very nice view of women, sex seems to be the only reason i stand them.


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## L (Aug 12, 2011)

Magnificent Bastard said:


> Perhaps follow my lead. Lots of women look for a man they can follow anyway.


As MM stated below many men do this as well, however perhaps it being that you are an ENTP and my being an INTP that we cannot really understand each others' points to their fullest, however I think I know what you are getting at, however us INTP's in general do not want anybody to follow us, nor do we wish to follow. I think that is why you are getting hostility.



Marshmallow Moo said:


> People like you make me want to throw up. Just a warning, in case I ever meet you. You should probably carry around a change of clothes, just to be safe.


I don't agree with him either however please try not to get aggressive like this, a subject like this needs our objectivity and unbiased abilities :happy:



The Prince said:


> I don't get why your getting agressive. Could he have said something that conficts with your principles?
> 
> The name of this thread itself should tell you things like this will happen.
> 
> Anyways I don't have a very nice view of women, sex seems to be the only reason i stand them.


I myself used to think like this, however now I am in a much better environment and have a much better outlook on the matter, perhaps the same will happen for you.


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## Marshmallow Moo (Sep 19, 2011)

The Prince said:


> I don't get why your getting agressive. Could he have said something that conficts with your principles?
> 
> The name of this thread itself should tell you things like this will happen.
> 
> Anyways I don't have a very nice view of women, sex seems to be the only reason i stand them.


Haha sorry, I was being facetious. I should have made that clearer. No hard feelings! 

(Though I do suggest you replace the word "women" with any other group--blacks, asians, Jews, etc.--and see how awful it sounds. Surely you don't think you can accurately generalize an entire group of people?)


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## Magnificent Bastard (Sep 22, 2010)

Marshmallow Moo said:


> People like you make me want to throw up. Just a warning, in case I ever meet you. You should probably carry around a change of clothes, just to be safe.
> 
> (PS The sad thing is, you're right. But there are also a lot of men who look for women they can follow. Trust me, I've seen it in action. Don't think for one second that it's just a female problem.)


Fine, I'll bring extra clothes. But you have to wash the one you soiled just to be fair. )


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## The Prince (Oct 22, 2011)

Marshmallow Moo said:


> Haha sorry, I was being facetious. I should have made that clearer. No hard feelings!
> 
> (Though I do suggest you replace the word "women" with any other group--blacks, asians, Jews, etc.--and see how awful it sounds. Surely you don't think you can accurately generalize an entire group of people?)


We have the exact same personality numbers. If your signature is correct.


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## Krutz (Oct 11, 2011)

Marshmallow Moo said:


> Haha sorry, I was being facetious. I should have made that clearer. No hard feelings!
> 
> (Though I do suggest you replace the word "women" with any other group--blacks, asians, Jews, etc.--and see how awful it sounds. Surely you don't think you can accurately generalize an entire group of people?)


Well generalizations are often generally true, examples;
Mexicans like tacos.
Nigerians are black.
Americans value freedom.
etc.

You can't really dismiss his view just because its a generalization, only accept that most generalizations have lots of exceptions, and/or offer proof that his view is wrong. He also stated that it was his view of women that was not very nice, not a factual statement whatsoever about women.

Meh felt like nitpicking.


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## PAdude (Mar 18, 2011)

Marshmallow Moo said:


> This thread could go in any temperament board, but I figured that NTs would give the most honest answer.
> 
> Anyway, I've always had the impression that many men think women to be less capable than them. Whenever I'm with a guy, they always feel obligated to tell me what I should and shouldn't do, like they're "taking care" of me. I don't like this. It makes me feel like they think they are superior to me. This is obviously not the case for every guy; I know I'm making some generalization that could be deemed "sexist." But tell me the truth: do guys tend to look down on women?
> 
> (P.S. I understand that this answer could vary depending on what culture you're in. I just want to know your personal experience.)


My ex girlfriend treated me like this so I don't think it's an attitude that is exclusive to men. I personally judge people with as little gender stereotype as possible so to ask "what do you think of women" is too general of a question.


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## vt1099ace (Jun 8, 2009)

Marshmallow Moo said:


> This thread could go in any temperament board, but I figured that NTs would give the most honest answer.
> 
> Anyway, I've always had the impression that many men think women to be less capable than them. Whenever I'm with a guy, they always feel obligated to tell me what I should and shouldn't do, like they're "taking care" of me. I don't like this. It makes me feel like they think they are superior to me. This is obviously not the case for every guy; I know I'm making some generalization that could be deemed "sexist." But tell me the truth: do guys tend to look down on women?
> 
> (P.S. I understand that this answer could vary depending on what culture you're in. I just want to know your personal experience.)


 
Physically, I know I'm biologically programmed to seek out females of my species and I really don't mind that part.:wink:

Beyond that, I'm still trying to figure y'all out....:laughing:

I try to treat ladies as ladies and I've gotten my butt chewed out, I've tried being the_ 'bad boy douche bag'_ and ditto reponse, I've even tried the _indifferent platonic intellectual_ AND THAT DIDN'T work....

I do know I have no right to _'order to'_, _'command to'_, '_decide for'_ or_'make'_ anyone do anything they don't want to do...I look 'down on' or 'up to' anyone based on how they act, treat me, carry themselves and treat the world around them. Call that sexist/racist bigot if you want, I'm not going to change.


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## affezwilling (Feb 1, 2011)

I've always gotten along better with women than I have men. Men tend to be too focused on being a manly man, which I find to be stupid, instead of being gentlemen and scholars. I like a good competition and test of strength & endurance, but I prefer there to be some strategy to it. Women tend to be more thoughtful and cunning.

I think my getting along with women better has to do with being an intuitive. In general men tend to be more Sensor Thinkers and women tend to be more Sensor Feelers. Sensing looks for the most obvious explanation and ignores anything beyond that so not much thought is necessary, likewise thinking makes the most logical and efficient decision and ignores any information which isn't pertinent to solving the issue at hand. Feeling on the other hand takes into account all kinds of information that is unnecessary to completing a task in order to make everyone feel better about the task being completed which takes much more thought and deliberation, likewise intuition takes into account all of the intricate details and possible outcomes of everything. Also since most intuitives are feelers and most feelers are women it makes it easier to find intuitive women than intuitive men. Probably why they have the term "a woman's intuition".


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## princess82 (Sep 30, 2011)

Magnificent Bastard said:


> Women subconsciously want to be sex objects, cook and be submissive. Otherwise the human race wouldn't have gotten this far.


I don't particularly like cooking. I can go weeks living on fastfood. And I never cooked for my ex (except a heart-shaped cake for valentine's), though I have a feeling he kind of wished, perhaps expected, that I'd cook something else for him. Something besides that one cake. I bet that fish he'd caught and asked me to cook months ago is still sitting in a wal-mart sack in the corner of his freezer. But he never cooked anything for me either (except maybe microwavable mac'n'cheese), so there. Anyway, would you decide to not date a girl because she doesn't want to cook for you?


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## L (Aug 12, 2011)

princess82 said:


> I don't particularly like cooking. I can go weeks living on fastfood. And I never cooked for my ex (except a heart-shaped cake for valentine's), though I have a feeling he kind of wished, perhaps expected, that I'd cook something else for him. Something besides that one cake. I bet that fish he'd caught and asked me to cook months ago is still sitting in a wal-mart sack in the corner of his freezer. But he never cooked anything for me either (except maybe microwavable mac'n'cheese), so there. Anyway, would you decide to not date a girl because she doesn't want to cook for you?


No, but if she doesn't wanna cook for me she better not expect me to cook for her, now that could cause problems.


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## princess82 (Sep 30, 2011)

L_Lawliet said:


> No, but if she doesn't wanna cook for me she better not expect me to cook for her, now that could cause problems.


Um...I never did expect, want, or particularly care whether or not he cooked for me either


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