# Who wins in an argument: ENTJ or ESTP?



## TheQuirkyArtiste (Oct 21, 2014)

The question is: Which personality type do you believe to be more persuasive and/or stubborn in proving their point, winning the other over, or essentially winning in a argument or disagreement: an ESTP or ENTJ?

This is what's going on in my life to cause me to pose such a question:

I am an ENFP artist and writer pursuing my career and has the support of my parents. My Mom is an ExTP and my Dad is an IxFJ.

I have a boyfriend who is an ENFP writer and artist who is currently pursuing the career of a dental hygienist due to the discouragement he's received from his parents. His Mom is an ENTJ, and his Dad is an INTP.

His Mom is very against the idea because of the lack of money being raked in, but my Mom is for the idea as she thinks it's fine and it all works out...because it does.

My Mom is very persuasive person who makes anything and everything happen from my experience, and is now going to try and help out my boyfriend's parents in being more open-minded in allowing him to make his own career choices without being so controlling.

What I'm wondering is, personality-wise, which Mom is more likely to come out on top in this situation?


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## Tzara (Dec 21, 2013)

Theoretically: ENTJ hands down.

Reality: they will piss each other off, and the stuff entj argued for will be the final choice.


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## nO_d3N1AL (Apr 25, 2014)

ENTJ for sure.


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## maust (Jul 14, 2014)

Have your mom work on his dad- if the INTP likes the idea, he'll likely wear the ENTJ down until she agrees.


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## MsBossyPants (Oct 5, 2011)

TheQuirkyArtiste said:


> The question is: Which personality type do you believe to be more persuasive and/or stubborn in proving their point, winning the other over, or essentially winning in a argument or disagreement: an ESTP or ENTJ? [...] which Mom is more likely to come out on top in this situation?




The ENTJ is probably better at arguing the facts , the ESTP probably better at persuasion. Who wins is determined by who the audience is. Do they want a reasoned argument, or want to be sold on the idea?


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## Judgment_Knight (Feb 1, 2015)

MsBossyPants said:


> The ENTJ is probably better at arguing the facts , the ESTP probably better at persuasion. Who wins is determined by who the audience is. Do they want a reasoned argument, or want to be sold on the idea?


THIS. One hundred fold. ENTJs by far have one of the most solid logical reasoning skills I've seen. ESTPs have incredible charisma. 

When it comes to decision making, ENTJs will have the upper hand because people would rather trust the well reasoned, more rational person than someone who knows to have fun. It's like eating your veggies. Besides, she's his mother, and if his family is more focused on stability (hence the dentist career), she would probably make sure he does what he knows is safer and more stable for him. I don't think parents want to see their child suffer, and a child would probably be convinced that following her is only due because he was raised by her. This is just speculation though. Take a bucket of salt to go with these statements.


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## Revoker (Jul 2, 2015)

I find the responses funny from a cognitive function standpoint.

Se/Ti would arguable be more fact centric than Te/Ni which is more goal oriented. Also the huge emphasis on the ESTP's tert Fe is equally hilarious as if the dom/aux have little influence.

So its rather fascinating that the ENTJ seem to automatically gain the better command over details / direct facts in addition to the big picture / long range goals. I think some of the archetype images being held might need adjustments and or more exposure.

At anyone whoever said verbal arguments are won over having command over the facts, especially in an informal environment, is adorable. Such a huge underestimation of the influence of cult of personality and tribal thinking. I'd say that the large majority of informal arguments are decided based on who gives in and finds the ordeal to not be worth the effort. There is a reason why we make a distinction between formal debates and informal debates, its night and day for what's passable.


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## Elistra (Apr 6, 2013)

I think that in the end, both the ESTP and the ENTJ are each going to do what they damned well please, no matter what the other one says, or said.


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## Rift (Mar 12, 2012)

the estp wins the argument, but the entj wins the war...


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## TheVerb (Mar 4, 2015)

*SOME* of them seem to lack critical thinking abilities (Te) because they are so hung up on facts. Against an ENTJ they better hope their information is concrete as f*ck or else I'm going to win, plain and simple.


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## cryptojuice (Jul 16, 2019)

It’s no surprise that people in this thread underestimate ESTPs. ESTPs not only argue the facts, but also present them in a way where it has no other way but to agree. Both going head to head is a tug of war and have a 50/50 chance to make their point the final choice. this actually cracks me up because ENTJs like to be seen as intelligent and a leader and arguing with us makes them cringe because we pose a threat to their “alpha” status.


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## cryptojuice (Jul 16, 2019)

Lmao you clearly underestimate ESTPs knowledge of facts. Y’all just cringe because we pose a threat to your alpha status


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## cryptojuice (Jul 16, 2019)

People in this thread underestimate ESTPs and it's no surprise. ESTPs actually have a well grounded knowledge of the points they make the difference between the both of them is that the ENTJ argues the old perspective, ESTPs argue the new one. ENTJs actually cringe when we argue(especially when it's in front of a few people) because not only can we argue the facts, we have a better presentation/delivery than xNTJ types, and we pose as a threat to their "alpha status" which makes us natural rivals


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## AnneM (May 29, 2019)

MOM vs MOM! Woot! 

I've heard that ESTPs win arguments by just talking and talking and talking and saying any and everything that comes to mind, regardless of coherence. Kind of like a machine gun. A barrage of words. 

So, they may lose the argument, but they're still talking even after they've lost and are thus unaware of the verdict.


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## Shrodingers drink (Nov 30, 2018)

I just find it amusing that some would try and force a ENFP to become a dental hygienist! Colossal waste of time and money.


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## CelineDijon (Jul 5, 2016)

I see this going down usually this way from what I've noticed with these two types: ENTJ is a good debater and will be very prepared and know what they're talking about, they are interested in discussions, not really arguing. If it got heated, the ENTJ would remain grounded because they are interested in the facts and the intellectual sparring above anything else. ESTP does not like heated arguments either, so it's unlikely these two would argue much. In my experience, ESTP's get bored of fighting and arguing. Also if the ENTJ believed he won, the ESTP will just let him think that and move on. Just like ISTP's would do.


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## TheUnnecessaryEvil (Mar 28, 2021)

ENTJs have better reasoning.. but ESTPs have better arguing skills.

Contrary to what pseudointellectual dumb bitches believe, if you don't know how to intimidate and overwhelm the person in front of you, all of your reasoning means nothing.

ESTP stomps every time.


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