# Isn't it weird I type a cross between ENTP & ISTP for types.



## counterintuitive (Apr 8, 2011)

Cinnamon83 said:


> Oh I do not remember which tests for what anymore I created this thread almost a year ago. Since then I did determine that my Ne & Se was getting mixed up. I know I am not Ne now that I read more in depth on the functions.


Yeah Ne & Se often get mixed up on that test (I'm thinking of the keys2cognition one)... I've noticed that NPs generally score high on Ne and low on Se, while SPs seem to score high on both. I don't know why it's not symmetrical. But as you say, it's the test that's mixing them up, it doesn't reflect your actual functional usage. Reading in depth is the way to go for sure.

Determining if you are Ti or Se dominant can be more difficult - it would be best to look into inferior Fe vs. inferior Ni as you did earlier in the thread. Tons of NPs have the same issue where they can't determine if they are Ne or Ji dominant, I think in either case the best way is through the inferior. You obviously have a strong auxiliary either way.


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## myst91 (Sep 9, 2014)

Cinnamon83 said:


> Oh I do not remember which tests for what anymore I created this thread almost a year ago. Since then I did determine that my Ne & Se was getting mixed up. I know I am not Ne now that I read more in depth on the functions.


Sorry I edited my post since then - did you see that? About the inferior function showing type better.


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## myst91 (Sep 9, 2014)

ketchup said:


> Yeah Ne & Se often get mixed up on that test (I'm thinking of the keys2cognition one)... I've noticed that NPs generally score high on Ne and low on Se, while SPs seem to score high on both. I don't know why it's not symmetrical. But as you say, it's the test that's mixing them up, it doesn't reflect your actual functional usage. Reading in depth is the way to go for sure.


I don't understand how that test mixes up Se and Ne. It seems to define Ne in an alright way. That test was where I saw that even though I scored as weakly N in the official MBTI test, I had no Ne. I'm supposedly SP because of having Ti and Se but I do score very low on Ne in that test and in other function tests. Do ISTPs usually score high on Ne in that test?




> Determining if you are Ti or Se dominant can be more difficult - it would be best to look into inferior Fe vs. inferior Ni as you did earlier in the thread. Tons of NPs have the same issue where they can't determine if they are Ne or Ji dominant, I think in either case the best way is through the inferior. You obviously have a strong auxiliary either way.


Yeah according to OP's answer about the inferior function in this same thread, she's ESTP. It makes sense put together with the rest of her descriptions of herself, including a mindset that does not seem to start from logic first and foremost and a very EP flavour of temperament, and her way of putting things though I have not seen many posts of hers yet in other threads, just a few.


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

@myst91 @ketchup
Back story on why originally I believe I was scoring so high on N's. Because I grew up in an intuitive house. My Se was very often bitched and put down and not fostered. (Not whining I am explaining that was repressed I begged to be in things like hockey and was told no usually its parents forcing kids to do that crap lol). My dad and my step dad were Ne & my mother, lil sis & bro are all Ni. I think I had a very hard time identifying Ni as my inferior because I grew up with 2 Ni doms so I seen in working and it being inferior was able to adapt it. But I have decided it is inferior. I am Ni inferior. My Fe is far too developed when I look at INTP & ISTP I know my Fe is tert. But what I have never been sold on is the Se before Ti. I seem to utilize Ti more. Just explaining. 

Also @ketchup I watched your video I had a hard time determining (and usually I can tell in others an Ne from Se dom/aux user. Ne users seem to have a gleam in their eyes while Se/Ti seem to have a straight or piercing edge in their glance and you were almost split down the middle. And you seemed half Ne & half Se lol. I leaned more Se tho.


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

Where I really see ESTP is when I look at my eldest daughter who is ESTP. I am always 5 steps ahead of her. I know her play before it even comes up. (Lol sucks to be her). 

I think I probably just relate to introvert because I lead an isolated life raising my children focusing on their enrichment not my own. But yeah when I run into people who knew me back in the 'day' they are like what the hell happened to you, you used to be the wildest most bold person I knew. (Lol well that was before I had kids to be a rolemodel for and also before having my 20s suck the life out of me as far as failed relationships :crazy: ). My crazy side still comes out tho, & my leadership side comes out in work environments. Otherwise I am more chill tho.


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## myst91 (Sep 9, 2014)

Cinnamon83 said:


> @myst91 @ketchup
> Back story on why originally I believe I was scoring so high on N's. Because I grew up in an intuitive house. My Se was very often bitched and put down and not fostered. (Not whining I am explaining that was repressed I begged to be in things like hockey and was told no usually its parents forcing kids to do that crap lol). My dad and my step dad were Ne & my mother, lil sis & bro are all Ni. I think I had a very hard time identifying Ni as my inferior because I grew up with 2 Ni doms so I seen in working and it being inferior was able to adapt it. But I have decided it is inferior. I am Ni inferior. My Fe is far too developed when I look at INTP & ISTP I know my Fe is tert. But what I have never been sold on is the Se before Ti. I seem to utilize Ti more. Just explaining.


So you are more consciously aware of your Ti than your Se, is what you are trying to say? Because I'm the opposite way, I am more consciously aware of the Se than the Ti.

If with the family background you mean to say you think you should be doing N things and hence answering the tests that way.. that makes sense.




> Also @ketchup I watched your I had a hard time determining (and usually I can tell in others an Ne from Se dom/aux user. Ne users seem to have a gleam in their eyes while Se/Ti seem to have a straight or piercing edge in their glance and you were almost split down the middle. And you seemed half Ne & half Se lol. I leaned more Se tho.


OK now I looked too, lol. He didn't seem to be too straight with looking. He does say this in the post for the video: _"I'm kinda jittery/tired/jumpy and keep looking around, but I'm not actually looking AT anything. Weird."_

Just my 2 cents, I'm not very trusting of these video typing thingies


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## counterintuitive (Apr 8, 2011)

@Cinnamon83 , thanks, I'm still not really sure of Ne vs. Se. Thanks though. I have a really hard time relating to Se or to inferior Ni, and by contrast I relate to Ne and inferior Si quite a lot, so I don't know.

I do agree though that when I compare myself to Ti doms (IxTP) I can tell that I don't have inferior Fe, mine's tertiary as well.

BTW sometimes people do identify with their auxiliary more than their dominant, because it's easier to "see", in a way - so you might be using Se so much you don't even notice it, while you do notice Ti.


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## counterintuitive (Apr 8, 2011)

myst91 said:


> I don't understand how that test mixes up Se and Ne. It seems to define Ne in an alright way. That test was where I saw that even though I scored as weakly N in the official MBTI test, I had no Ne. I'm supposedly SP because of having Ti and Se but I do score very low on Ne in that test and in other function tests. Do ISTPs usually score high on Ne in that test?


Ha, I don't really know why it mixes them up - I scored really low on Se and Ne was my highest result - but I've seen a lot of overlap in other people.

ETA


myst91 said:


> OK now I looked too, lol. He didn't seem to be too straight with looking. He does say this in the post for the video: _"I'm kinda jittery/tired/jumpy and keep looking around, but I'm not actually looking AT anything. Weird."_
> 
> Just my 2 cents, I'm not very trusting of these video typing thingies


Yeah...I probably should have made another video when I wasn't so jumpy, I think I'd had like 3 coffees that day, lol. But yeah, I wasn't looking AT anything. An unfocused gaze is my default.


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

I think its because the questions are flawed in how they ask. Some questions that are shaped to determine an intuitive from a sensor are written by intuitives who do not understand that a sensor can read between the lines too. That for example is something an ESTP for example can do easily lol. But its meant to be directed to distinguishing sensors from intuitives often when its asked on tests. And other questions alike. 

I now have resolved that issue and really examined all the Ne users I know and I am positive that I am not an Ne user. Once I really grasped what was Ne I realized it has often been something I looked at as very much head in the clouds. My ex was ENFP. I really enjoyed the Ne in thought and discussion but in action drove me flippen bonkers. Point in that tangent was to explain I can see the difference in Ne & Se in real life examples more then I think tests distinguish it. 

Ok so my response on another thread earlier talking about Ne vs Ni. I said Ni is cocaine, & Ne is a psychedelic. (Yeah my screwed analogy). Anyways Yeah Ni cuts thru like a razor and is looking at the bottom line and tactic, Ne is tripping and its eyes are dilated.


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## myst91 (Sep 9, 2014)

ketchup said:


> @Cinnamon83 , thanks, I'm still not really sure of Ne vs. Se. Thanks though. I have a really hard time relating to Se or to inferior Ni, and by contrast I relate to Ne and inferior Si quite a lot, so I don't know.


Lol why not sure on Ne vs Se then??? Beyond wanting to be thorough in checking out all options :tongue:




> BTW sometimes people do identify with their auxiliary more than their dominant, because it's easier to "see", in a way - so you might be using Se so much you don't even notice it, while you do notice Ti.


Yes this is true of me too. Why is it like that though, I don't know if I fully understand it. Well sure the idea that you are so used to the dominant function that you don't notice it makes sense. I did a lot of heavy introspecting and I did finally notice that I default to Ti checking the logic in stuff, filter things via logic, etc. It just usually happens so quickly that I don't notice it. But the Ti is there or what else would be constantly repressing the inferior function? I have seen other signs of the dominant function as well, such as a certain mind state that does seem to be constantly on too. It's a sort of detached focus for me. But right, I don't notice any of it by default until I check myself and check against how other people are, too.




ketchup said:


> Ha, I don't really know why it mixes them up - I scored really low on Se and Ne was my highest result - but I've seen a lot of overlap in other people.


Did those people score higher than 35ish in both Ne and Se? (In the keys2cog test.) Because I've seen a ton of people who scored around that for both. I can imagine that playing out without a problem. 




> Yeah...I probably should have made another video when I wasn't so jumpy, I think I'd had like 3 coffees that day, lol. But yeah, I wasn't looking AT anything. An unfocused gaze is my default.


Yep I could see it when I was watching your gaze, it is weird to me how unfocused some people can be  Another point for dominant Ne for you, btw. Damn, you are a way too simple case of typing :tongue:




Cinnamon83 said:


> I think its because the questions are flawed in how they ask. Some questions that are shaped to determine an intuitive from a sensor are written by intuitives who do not understand that a sensor can read between the lines too. That for example is something an ESTP for example can do easily lol. But its meant to be directed to distinguishing sensors from intuitives often when its asked on tests. And other questions alike.


I'm not sure I follow your reasoning here. Which questions specifically are like that here - if you have time to look: Keys 2 Cognition - Cognitive Processes ?

I don't really try to read between the lines btw. :shrug Unless it's completely obvious from the context that it's some joke or some such. 




> I now have resolved that issue and really examined all the Ne users I know and I am positive that I am not an Ne user. Once I really grasped what was Ne I realized it has often been something I looked at as very much head in the clouds. My ex was ENFP. I really enjoyed the Ne in thought and discussion but in action drove me flippen bonkers. Point in that tangent was to explain I can see the difference in Ne & Se in real life examples more then I think tests distinguish it.


For me too much Ne drives crazy even in just discussion. What sort of actions made you mad in the ENFP ex? 

I like your Ni vs Ne comparison btw.


Also, did you see my question if you meant that Ti is most conscious to you, yeah? Just making sure I got you right.

If you check above how I describe my Ti-dom orientation... can you describe Se in a similar way? If you've observed yourself enough for that


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## counterintuitive (Apr 8, 2011)

myst91 said:


> Lol why not sure on Ne vs Se then??? Beyond wanting to be thorough in checking out all options :tongue:


Yeah, that's it basically lol. Want to check out all the options. (BTW, I'm not a fan of the MBTI either, so like you, I'd just list the type in my signature either way, not use the MBTI profile field on this forum)




> Yes this is true of me too. Why is it like that though, I don't know if I fully understand it. Well sure the idea that you are so used to the dominant function that you don't notice it makes sense. I did a lot of heavy introspecting and I did finally notice that I default to Ti checking the logic in stuff, filter things via logic, etc. It just usually happens so quickly that I don't notice it. But the Ti is there or what else would be constantly repressing the inferior function? I have seen other signs of the dominant function as well, such as a certain mind state that does seem to be constantly on too. It's a sort of detached focus for me. But right, I don't notice any of it by default until I check myself and check against how other people are, too.


Well, I think that's about what it is. It's hard to observe your own thoughts while you're actually thinking, so you have to stop and check yourself to see it. The dominant is always 'just there' and has been since your first thoughts, right? You get so used to it that you don't see it. I only recently had a kind of 'epiphany' about Ne, before that when I was reading Ne descriptions, I always felt like it was so ordinary that it didn't require description. I don't feel like they're describing anything out of the ordinary or anything in particular, just run-of-the-mill thoughts, not a specific function. I don't have this feeling about any of the other function descriptions, though - they seem almost completely foreign, except for Ti (which I can actually "see" more clearly - I used to think I was Ti-dominant because of this). It is very weird to realize the massive scope of one's dominant function, and that ALL of that cognition is different in someone else!



> Did those people score higher than 35ish in both Ne and Se? (In the keys2cog test.) Because I've seen a ton of people who scored around that for both. I can imagine that playing out without a problem.


TBH I don't remember! But to your point, I don't remember seeing someone score in the high 40s for both.




> Yep I could see it when I was watching your gaze, it is weird to me how unfocused some people can be  Another point for dominant Ne for you, btw. Damn, you are a way too simple case of typing :tongue:


Would you believe I've been trying to type myself in earnest for the past 4 years, since I posted that thread


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

> I'm not sure I follow your reasoning here. Which questions specifically are like that here - if you have time to look: Keys 2 Cognition - Cognitive Processes ?
> 
> I don't really try to read between the lines btw. :shrug Unless it's completely obvious from the context that it's some joke or some such.


 I will look at it and think about it.



> For me too much Ne drives crazy even in just discussion. What sort of actions made you mad in the ENFP ex?


 Well I think the convo at first was stimulating and interesting and it puts a new spin. But in living environments it was frustrating because it seemed to go off on endless tangents and it was kind of exhausting as it seem to not lead to results in his case. So lots of mental/verbal tangents that seemed to go down the yellow brick road. It was so frustrating because I want to find out where the hell something is going and make progress and such. I dont if you have had similar experience when you found it frustrating or not. 



> I like your Ni vs Ne comparison btw.


:happy:



myst91 said:


> Also, did you see my question if you meant that Ti is most conscious to you, yeah? Just making sure I got you right.
> If you check above how I describe my Ti-dom orientation... can you describe Se in a similar way? If you've observed yourself enough for that


Yes like what you say. I probably just see Ti more then I would even see Se. But something that does not add up is that sometimes I can be so in my head I can be oblivious to things around me. But I guess even when I am spacey I seem more environmentally aware then some people. But yes I think your right in that aux would be easier to see.


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## myst91 (Sep 9, 2014)

ketchup said:


> Yeah, that's it basically lol. Want to check out all the options. (BTW, I'm not a fan of the MBTI either, so like you, I'd just list the type in my signature either way, not use the MBTI profile field on this forum)


Lol then shouldn't you say, "I'm not sure if I'm Ne or Se or Fe or Te or..."? :tongue:

Which system are you into then if not MBTI, if any?




> Well, I think that's about what it is. It's hard to observe your own thoughts while you're actually thinking, so you have to stop and check yourself to see it. The dominant is always 'just there' and has been since your first thoughts, right? You get so used to it that you don't see it. I only recently had a kind of 'epiphany' about Ne, before that when I was reading Ne descriptions, I always felt like it was so ordinary that it didn't require description. I don't feel like they're describing anything out of the ordinary or anything in particular, just run-of-the-mill thoughts, not a specific function. I don't have this feeling about any of the other function descriptions, though - they seem almost completely foreign, except for Ti (which I can actually "see" more clearly - I used to think I was Ti-dominant because of this). It is very weird to realize the massive scope of one's dominant function, and that ALL of that cognition is different in someone else!


Yeah it doesnt even feel like thinking unless I'm actively processing a lot of new information. Emphasis on "a lot" and on "new". That makes me go into really thorough analysis of stuff so I of course notice that. 

Hmm, I'm a bit different with the function descriptions. Ti is the one that didn't ever need explaining at all, I didn't think it was run-of-the-mill however, I know some people don't do logic much; that run-of-the-mill impression was Se instead. :shrug With Se I didn't need explaining of the function either, just explaining of why this even needs to be emphasized as a function that can be strong/dominant or not :laughing:

I don't know why I am like that with Se instead of Ti, don't try to type me ESTP based on only this tidbit though, lol.




> Would you believe I've been trying to type myself in earnest for the past 4 years, since I posted that thread


 I took time too btw... it was due to poor self-knowledge and even poorer understanding of how other people are different.




Cinnamon83 said:


> I will look at it and think about it.


OK!




> Well I think the convo at first was stimulating and interesting and it puts a new spin. But in living environments it was frustrating because it seemed to go off on endless tangents and it was kind of exhausting as it seem to not lead to results in his case. So lots of mental/verbal tangents that seemed to go down the yellow brick road. It was so frustrating because I want to find out where the hell something is going and make progress and such. I dont if you have had similar experience when you found it frustrating or not.


Can you tell me some anecdotes? Just would like to hear something concrete 




> Yes like what you say. I probably just see Ti more then I would even see Se. But something that does not add up is that sometimes I can be so in my head I can be oblivious to things around me. But I guess even when I am spacey I seem more environmentally aware then some people. But yes I think your right in that aux would be easier to see.


Anyone can be in their head sometimes. I relate to this a lot, btw, that I keep the awareness of where I am in the environment even then. My Se is really pretty high, some people do want to see me as ESTP or are undecided on the I/E. I'm reasonably clear on it myself now, after a long period of not really understanding that.


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## Saturnian Devil (Jan 29, 2013)

I'm not confused about my type or anything but I find this discussion interesting. A while ago, I actually scored as ESTP on Keys2Cognition once and I thought it was kind of interesting since I always test as ISTP. Now, I know I have high Se, but my Ti is higher. I also know that as an ISTP E9w8, I can seem extroverted at times and rather outspoken, but at the end of the day, I know my Ni is far more developed than my inferior Fe and I don't like dealing with humans every day. Shit's exhausting. Plus I analyze things first before acting on them, never the other way around. 

So, I do see why it'd be easy for ISTPs and ESTPs to mistype and I do see why @Cinnamon83 is still confused. ISTPs and ESTPs share the same functions but they're switched and that's where it gets confusing. Plus they are pretty similar at first glance if you don't know what to look for. 

I can't see OP as ENTP, though. Doesn't seem like a good fit to me.


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

> Can you tell me some anecdotes? Just would like to hear something concrete


Well he was an ENFP-He would discuss alot of things like that he intended to make or build granted he made a few things. But for example he would have the most impractical dreams. Like building a house around our house rather then just adding on or making a new house (WTF for). He spent alot more time describing how he thought up a method and trying to short cut the method with new inventions and approaches then if he would either just do it like someone with Se or plan it with Ni. I HATED talking about politics with him he would go from one issue to another an associate them to support his arguments when the two issues had nothing to do with each other. Seriously tho alot of it had to do with being in action. For example I was just in the vehicle with him last week driving to our daughters show, anyways I was re-reminded of how he never could just take anything I would suggest and try it. Everything had to be done in a longer route. Its like he had to try and find the unique approach rather then the most practical always. I could not count how many times his unique approaches in methods and routes got us stuck places. (And I like exploring, but I never seen his Ne was of exploring lol as well my method of exploring things). I do not need to get stuck in the mud to realize I should not drive into the fucken mud. I do not need to spend an hour coming up with a gadget that is complicated and takes more work to operate then having just already finished the project had one just did it instead of find an alternative method thats unique. EVERYTIME OMG! You know how many man hours is wasted in that sort of method. I mean thats fine if your just putzing around in your own shop in rec time, but in daily life OMG. Seriously a house around a house (we were not rich people who afforded the luxury of weird abstract 'unique' unpractical useless things. But we did need an extension for more space. I think I got tired of having to redirect conversation always back to practical things.


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## counterintuitive (Apr 8, 2011)

myst91 said:


> Lol then shouldn't you say, "I'm not sure if I'm Ne or Se or Fe or Te or..."? :tongue:
> 
> Which system are you into then if not MBTI, if any?


Well, there are options I already eliminated, and I guess this one (ESTP/Se-dominant) is the last one to go. Only Ne Ti remains in play now so I'm kinda cornered.

I'm mostly just into Jung's descriptions in Psychological Types, if that's a system... There are other authors who describe functions, e.g. Lenore Thomson that I'm trying to read more of as well. Basically the functions and not the MBTI letters I guess.



> Yeah it doesnt even feel like thinking unless I'm actively processing a lot of new information. Emphasis on "a lot" and on "new". That makes me go into really thorough analysis of stuff so I of course notice that.
> 
> Hmm, I'm a bit different with the function descriptions. Ti is the one that didn't ever need explaining at all, I didn't think it was run-of-the-mill however, I know some people don't do logic much; that run-of-the-mill impression was Se instead. :shrug With Se I didn't need explaining of the function either, just explaining of why this even needs to be emphasized as a function that can be strong/dominant or not :laughing:
> 
> I don't know why I am like that with Se instead of Ti, don't try to type me ESTP based on only this tidbit though, lol.


lol I won't. I've noticed how I respond to new problems or questions... if there's a problem and I'm thinking of potential solutions, I do get the impression I'm actively "directing" Ne at the problem. But unless it's a particular situation like that I'm not really aware of it.



> I took time too btw... it was due to poor self-knowledge and even poorer understanding of how other people are different.


Looks like it's about the same for me. Add repressed auxiliary Ti, and I had little capacity for self-analysis/self-dissection (obviously mental dissection haha) for a few years, which made it even harder to figure out.


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## myst91 (Sep 9, 2014)

Saturnian Devil said:


> I'm not confused about my type or anything but I find this discussion interesting. A while ago, I actually scored as ESTP on Keys2Cognition once and I thought it was kind of interesting since I always test as ISTP. Now, I know I have high Se, but my Ti is higher. I also know that as an ISTP E9w8, I can seem extroverted at times and rather outspoken, but at the end of the day, I know my Ni is far more developed than my inferior Fe and I don't like dealing with humans every day. Shit's exhausting. Plus I analyze things first before acting on them, never the other way around.


Yeah I keep getting tested as ESTP on keys2cog but I don't buy it anymore. Though if the ISTPs here think I'm closer to ESTP than ISTP or whatever, I'm still open to hearing input (as long as I also get a reasoning for it).

I don't relate to you in terms of always analysing things before acting. I'm definitely familiar with just moving into action. I often just have a very very short phase of "thoughtless" consideration before I make a move and then I am entirely clear on everything. Clear and confident. (That very short phase though, is definitely like the mind state I described above about Ti.) But that I suppose requires a situation that I either already have a full understanding of or it's a very concrete situation that couldn't be any more clearer just by looking at it. Hm, also, I often start without having a real idea and figure out the details on the move. As I don't have the patience to sit that long analysing. That's when I do feel a bit frustrated until I get enough stuff figured out.

I can't say my Ni is "far more" developed than my Fe but I'm more confident in it than in Fe. I am not sure how I'd feel if I had to deal with people for long hours every day.. if it's action related then probably OK though. If socializing, hmm, well I have a good tolerance for that too, I just don't know what would happen if I was to do it consistently everyday over a long time period.. would I get drained or would I be able to recharge enough every night. Right now, the way I live, I meet very few people for socializing and quite rarely. 

If you don't think that still qualifies as Ti-dom, I'm curious to hear your thoughts.

I guess I can be a good comparison to the OP... so I hope this isn't going too off topic 




Cinnamon83 said:


> Well he was an ENFP (...)


Hahaha, I guess I didn't have the luck (?) to spend that much time together with a real ENFP. I would probably shortcircuit most of these discussions very quickly. That or I'd argue heavily, e.g. with that politics stuff. If I was in a car where the driver frequently wanted to do this longer route bs, I'd just not tolerate it. 




ketchup said:


> Well, there are options I already eliminated, and I guess this one (ESTP/Se-dominant) is the last one to go. Only Ne Ti remains in play now so I'm kinda cornered.
> 
> I'm mostly just into Jung's descriptions in Psychological Types, if that's a system... There are other authors who describe functions, e.g. Lenore Thomson that I'm trying to read more of as well. Basically the functions and not the MBTI letters I guess.


Cornered, haha.. And yes Jung's stuff is a system in its own right.

I can't comment on the rest, other than that, it makes total sense, yeah.


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## counterintuitive (Apr 8, 2011)

Cinnamon83 said:


> Well he was an ENFP-He would discuss alot of things like that he intended to make or build granted he made a few things. But for example he would have the most impractical dreams. Like building a house around our house rather then just adding on or making a new house (WTF for). He spent alot more time describing how he thought up a method and trying to short cut the method with new inventions and approaches then if he would either just do it like someone with Se or plan it with Ni. I HATED talking about politics with him he would go from one issue to another an associate them to support his arguments when the two issues had nothing to do with each other. Seriously tho alot of it had to do with being in action. For example I was just in the vehicle with him last week driving to our daughters show, anyways I was re-reminded of how he never could just take anything I would suggest and try it. Everything had to be done in a longer route. Its like he had to try and find the unique approach rather then the most practical always. I could not count how many times his unique approaches in methods and routes got us stuck places. (And I like exploring, but I never seen his Ne was of exploring lol as well my method of exploring things). I do not need to get stuck in the mud to realize I should not drive into the fucken mud. I do not need to spend an hour coming up with a gadget that is complicated and takes more work to operate then having just already finished the project had one just did it instead of find an alternative method thats unique. EVERYTIME OMG! You know how many man hours is wasted in that sort of method. I mean thats fine if your just putzing around in your own shop in rec time, but in daily life OMG. Seriously a house around a house (we were not rich people who afforded the luxury of weird abstract 'unique' unpractical useless things. But we did need an extension for more space. I think I got tired of having to redirect conversation always back to practical things.


lol oh gosh I am guilty of these types of things. My brother's an ISTP (very Ti-heavy) and I'm quite sure I irritate him as you described. I do this shit at work too, like I'll spend an hour automating something that would take a half hour to do manually, just because the automation is different than how I did it last time... I can't even tell you why, except there's such a draw to the unrealized possibility/potential that it _might_ be better, that I have to at least investigate/explore the possibility that it might be better. TBH though, most of the time, my better way really _is_ better. I would say at work 95% of my system changes are improvements - the other 5% are just...changes...haha. A lot of this is dependent on the ENP's auxiliary Ji, I used to be in a bit of a dom-tert loop with an repressed Ti and I'd do the equivalent of driving into mud. These days it's much better. I'm still completely impractical though, and of course I still connect everything under the sun to everything else. But at least I can apply some judgment to potential improvements that I see, not just chase every one.

(Sorry to keep posting in your thread Cinnamon83, hope you don't mind)


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## Saturnian Devil (Jan 29, 2013)

myst91 said:


> Yeah I keep getting tested as ESTP on keys2cog but I don't buy it anymore. Though if the ISTPs here think I'm closer to ESTP than ISTP or whatever, I'm still open to hearing input (as long as I also get a reasoning for it).
> 
> I don't relate to you in terms of always analysing things before acting. I'm definitely familiar with just moving into action. I often just have a very very short phase of "thoughtless" consideration before I make a move and then I am entirely clear on everything. Clear and confident. (That very short phase though, is definitely like the mind state I described above about Ti.) But that I suppose requires a situation that I either already have a full understanding of or it's a very concrete situation that couldn't be any more clearer just by looking at it. Hm, also, I often start without having a real idea and figure out the details on the move. As I don't have the patience to sit that long analysing. That's when I do feel a bit frustrated until I get enough stuff figured out.
> 
> ...


Keys2Cog is iffy, so I can't say I blame you. While I found my result interesting, I knew it didn't fit. It was just kind of funny to me in a way. 

I probably should have been more clear on what I meant, but I'll clarify. Sorry if I confused you. See, if it's something I'm already familiar with, I do act more quickly. Because I already know what to expect and I'm not as concerned about messing up. With new situations, it's different for me. I don't jump into new situations without weighing the pros and cons. This doesn't take very long, though. It takes about a few minutes for me to figure it out. However, my dominant Ti operates on auto-pilot. Even as I am in the process of doing something, Ti is still working. It doesn't turn off. Ever. Another thing is that while I can easily chill and be lazy, I do not like to be inactive for too long or else I get antsy. "Too long" can be defined as a few days or even a few hours. It depends on how much energy I've used and how much information I need to sort out in my mind. But Se is the function I can easily turn on and off at will. That's how I know it's auxiliary. 

As for my Ni and inferior Fe, my Ni development isn't as weak as with other ISTPs. I suppose this comes with the territory of E9 in general. I understand patterns and abstractions, but I don't exactly care for them. I'm more focused on the tangible, though I can tap into intuition if needed. Of course, while I tolerate abstractions and the non-concrete, too much of it will bore the hell out of me, and if I'm going to sit around and listen to it, I have to be able to apply the theory practically. That is how I know I'm not Ni-inferior lol. Fe-inferior is a given, though. I get worn out when listening to people talking about feelings all the time, and while I am aware that this sounds rather mean, I do cringe a lot of the time whenever someone comes onto the ISTP subforum and posts a lot of mushy stuff. The same happens when a friend comes to me with an emotional problem. I immediately find the solution to the problem instead of hearing them out a lot of the time, because I'm focused on fixing the problem rather than dwelling on it. 

As far as socializing, I'm a social ISTP. But, what sucks about that is that sometimes, people (mainly those who don't know me well) expect me to want to hang out all the time. I'm not gonna be doing that. There's no way I'm willing to give up my alone time just to go out with people unless it's worth my time. That's how I know that I'm introverted. 

But, yeah. About you, I don't know you too well and I've only seen you around here a few times, so I can't really say if you're Se or Ti dominant. However, like others have mentioned, when Ti and Se development are neck and neck, it's not always easy to tell unless you're looking at the inferior function. I think the best way to figure out what someone's inferior function is is by observing how they react in a given situation. For example, someone with inferior Fe wouldn't be expected to be super emotionally open and constantly talking about feelings. They're more inclined to ignore them, rationalize them, or keep them to themselves if they choose to acknowledge them.


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

ketchup said:


> lol oh gosh I am guilty of these types of things. My brother's an ISTP (very Ti-heavy) and I'm quite sure I irritate him as you described. I do this shit at work too, like I'll spend an hour automating something that would take a half hour to do manually, just because the automation is different than how I did it last time... I can't even tell you why, except there's such a draw to the unrealized possibility/potential that it _might_ be better, that I have to at least investigate/explore the possibility that it might be better. TBH though, most of the time, my better way really _is_ better. I would say at work 95% of my system changes are improvements - the other 5% are just...changes...haha. A lot of this is dependent on the ENP's auxiliary Ji, I used to be in a bit of a dom-tert loop with an repressed Ti and I'd do the equivalent of driving into mud. These days it's much better. I'm still completely impractical though, and of course I still connect everything under the sun to everything else. But at least I can apply some judgment to potential improvements that I see, not just chase every one.
> 
> (Sorry to keep posting in your thread Cinnamon83, hope you don't mind)


Naw your not bugging me at all 

Lol yes you sound alot like him. I would like to explain that I really can recognize the genius in Ne. Where I struggle with it is when it haults productivity. I am all for a separate creative department for you all to pick your brain in work environments where its necessary. Because you guys are the ones inventing the products that increase productivity. BUT lol when it drives me nutz is when an Ne user stops production outside conducive creative environments to teeter off. So seriously respect the creative genius. quite alot. But Ne users from my view need to simply distinguish the conducive creative working environments catering to that and rec time vs when theres a time and place to get stuff done. I am saying that as a production manager lol. Its basically been my job to crack the whip. And its not an attack of Ne, I actually rebutted to an INTJ a while back who was arguing they are the most productive I about fell to the floor laughing, I explained no you guys are the best strategists. But that consumption with strategy actually prohibits productivity. And hey its a double inch sword with them all Se can be impulsive and miss things or not be as thorough. So I really see a purpose in all of it. Balanced :happy:


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## Saturnian Devil (Jan 29, 2013)

Cinnamon83 said:


> Well he was an ENFP-He would discuss alot of things like that he intended to make or build granted he made a few things. But for example he would have the most impractical dreams. Like building a house around our house rather then just adding on or making a new house (WTF for). He spent alot more time describing how he thought up a method and trying to short cut the method with new inventions and approaches then if he would either just do it like someone with Se or plan it with Ni. *I HATED talking about politics with him he would go from one issue to another an associate them to support his arguments when the two issues had nothing to do with each other. *Seriously tho alot of it had to do with being in action. For example I was just in the vehicle with him last week driving to our daughters show, anyways I was re-reminded of how he never could just take anything I would suggest and try it. Everything had to be done in a longer route. Its like he had to try and find the unique approach rather then the most practical always. I could not count how many times his unique approaches in methods and routes got us stuck places. (And I like exploring, but I never seen his Ne was of exploring lol as well my method of exploring things). I do not need to get stuck in the mud to realize I should not drive into the fucken mud. I do not need to spend an hour coming up with a gadget that is complicated and takes more work to operate then having just already finished the project had one just did it instead of find an alternative method thats unique. EVERYTIME OMG! You know how many man hours is wasted in that sort of method. I mean thats fine if your just putzing around in your own shop in rec time, but in daily life OMG. Seriously a house around a house (we were not rich people who afforded the luxury of weird abstract 'unique' unpractical useless things. But we did need an extension for more space. I think I got tired of having to redirect conversation always back to practical things.


I personally can't stand talking about politics because it's just one of those subjects that always results in a circle jerk where people get too passionate and don't get anywhere. Whenever someone tries talking to me about politics, my eyes immediately glaze over. 

Then again, it's because I'm just like, "Who_ cares?_"

I don't really see how anyone could enjoy talking about that stuff but that's just me.


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

Saturnian Devil said:


> I personally can't stand talking about politics because it's just one of those subjects that always results in a circle jerk where people get too passionate and don't get anywhere. Whenever someone tries talking to me about politics, my eyes immediately glaze over.
> 
> Then again, it's because I'm just like, "Who_ cares?_"
> 
> I don't really see how anyone could enjoy talking about that stuff but that's just me.


I tend to agree with you. I know what you mean.

He was very radically conservative. 

I do not have a problem talking to people that moderately express a view or opinion and move on and are respectful of everyone. (But its rare to encounter that). I was raised its bad table talk anyways. So it drove me nutz that he thought it his lives mission to preach his beliefs rather then respect peoples differences. Especially because I tend to see most sides of the issues either direction and am a fence sitter generally speaking.


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## Saturnian Devil (Jan 29, 2013)

Cinnamon83 said:


> I tend to agree with you. I know what you mean.
> 
> He was very radically conservative.
> 
> I do not have a problem talking to people that moderately express a view or opinion and move on and are respectful of everyone. (But its rare to encounter that). I was raised its bad table talk anyways. So it drove me nutz that he thought it his lives mission to preach his beliefs rather then respect peoples differences. Especially because I tend to see most sides of the issues either direction and am a fence sitter generally speaking.


I'm a fence sitter myself so I know exactly what you mean about seeing both sides of the issue. It's both amusing and annoying to me how there are people who are on the far right or left that go around arguing from emotion rather than logic and it's like, "Uh... Chill out, dude. It's not that serious."

Speaking of which, I just logged out of Facebook because half of the people on my feed are going on about Ben Carson or whatever his name is. Ad hominems everywhere. :crying:


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

Saturnian Devil said:


> I'm a fence sitter myself so I know exactly what you mean about seeing both sides of the issue. It's both amusing and annoying to me how there are people who are on the far right or left that go around arguing from emotion rather than logic and it's like, "Uh... Chill out, dude. It's not that serious."
> 
> Speaking of which, I just logged out of Facebook because half of the people on my feed are going on about Ben Carson or whatever his name is. Ad hominems everywhere. :crying:


Thats funny I logged out earlier too because I cant stand the news feed. Its like having to look thru a needle in a hey stack now on FB newsfeed. I like to keep up with long distance family and friends and such but in order to even see that stuff theres a very long scroll thru garbage exactly like what you say with everyone reposting what ever supports their view. (Geez people we get it, yup your running a fucking 5K (what a good do gooder you are for telling us all), yup your running a pyramid scheme, yup your buying a house, yup you just broke up with a boyfriend, yup you want to save all the fucking whales, yup you want gun control. SHUT THE FUCK UP ALL YOU LOONEYS :happy:


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## myst91 (Sep 9, 2014)

Saturnian Devil said:


> Keys2Cog is iffy, so I can't say I blame you. While I found my result interesting, I knew it didn't fit. It was just kind of funny to me in a way.


Heh I know what you mean. I once managed to get ISTP somehow.  I don't even know how :tongue: 




> I probably should have been more clear on what I meant, but I'll clarify. Sorry if I confused you. See, if it's something I'm already familiar with, I do act more quickly. Because I already know what to expect and I'm not as concerned about messing up. With new situations, it's different for me. I don't jump into new situations without weighing the pros and cons. This doesn't take very long, though. It takes about a few minutes for me to figure it out. However, my dominant Ti operates on auto-pilot. Even as I am in the process of doing something, Ti is still working. It doesn't turn off. Ever. Another thing is that while I can easily chill and be lazy, I do not like to be inactive for too long or else I get antsy. "Too long" can be defined as a few days or even a few hours. It depends on how much energy I've used and how much information I need to sort out in my mind. But Se is the function I can easily turn on and off at will. That's how I know it's auxiliary.


OK so you never do this being too impatient to sit and just start getting around somehow? That to me is a good way to pick up the details I need on the move and make sense of them. Easier than sitting and guessing..

When you say Ti is still working and doesn't ever turn off... is it like I described for myself in post #30 or is it constantly active thinking that you actually notice?

Yeah I also don't like to be inactive for long. Hm well, when I am actually resting, I'm not really sorting out information, that to me is not being inactive/lazy. I see it as actual mental work. Also, I usually sort out the information while acquiring it. Though sometimes it's more about retrospective analysis of situations when I'm able to to analyse them, this isn't always possible right away, I may need more information first to develop a better understanding to go off of. I either can analyse something right away or not. If not, I know that it's not possible, I feel the mental "wall" beyond which I cannot yet go.




> As for my Ni and inferior Fe, my Ni development isn't as weak as with other ISTPs. I suppose this comes with the territory of E9 in general. I understand patterns and abstractions, but I don't exactly care for them. I'm more focused on the tangible, though I can tap into intuition if needed. Of course, while I tolerate abstractions and the non-concrete, too much of it will bore the hell out of me, and if I'm going to sit around and listen to it, I have to be able to apply the theory practically. That is how I know I'm not Ni-inferior lol.


Er, how is the Ni inferior different from this?

I understand them too (abstractions) and I do care for them, it's fascinating and inspiring stuff, but I would not be able to spend all day with it. It'd be too draining to be doubly introverted in this Ti/Ni mode even though it's kind of awesome too. 

I do prefer to apply whatever theory practically too, yep, that's when I feel at my best, otherwise, I just try to give myself intellectual challenges from time to time by reading up on and understanding abstract theory. Btw when I said fascinating and inspiring I meant the more spiritual/symbolical abstract side of Ni, not the version of abstraction of more technical patterns - if this makes sense - but that's still very cool too.

I developed the ability to do this stuff from age 18 with sporadic glimpses before it.

Why I said my Ni is pretty weak though is that in real life situations I hardly apply any of it beyond a basic level. I can have insights about a situation later after lots of analysis but that's it. It's not really under my control. 




> Fe-inferior is a given, though. I get worn out when listening to people talking about feelings all the time, and while I am aware that this sounds rather mean, I do cringe a lot of the time whenever someone comes onto the ISTP subforum and posts a lot of mushy stuff. The same happens when a friend comes to me with an emotional problem. I immediately find the solution to the problem instead of hearing them out a lot of the time, because I'm focused on fixing the problem rather than dwelling on it.


I do have a bit higher tolerance than this.. I don't get worn out by emotional people doing drama, I just try to analyze it like any other input, lol. I don't really get emotional myself most of the time with these drama thingies, why do you get worn out by it, do you get too emotional? I only get like that if I allow myself to care enough to get really involved but that's really rare and definitely not with most people. That would be wearing me out faster, sure, but otherwise no, not at all. And yes, I try to find a solution like you describe, that's one of the reasons why I analyze it heh. 




> As far as socializing, I'm a social ISTP. But, what sucks about that is that sometimes, people (mainly those who don't know me well) expect me to want to hang out all the time. I'm not gonna be doing that. There's no way I'm willing to give up my alone time just to go out with people unless it's worth my time. That's how I know that I'm introverted.


OK I don't know about this myself as I don't socialize often enough




> But, yeah. About you, I don't know you too well and I've only seen you around here a few times, so I can't really say if you're Se or Ti dominant. However, like others have mentioned, when Ti and Se development are neck and neck, it's not always easy to tell unless you're looking at the inferior function. I think the best way to figure out what someone's inferior function is is by observing how they react in a given situation. For example, someone with inferior Fe wouldn't be expected to be super emotionally open and constantly talking about feelings. They're more inclined to ignore them, rationalize them, or keep them to themselves if they choose to acknowledge them.


Yeah that makes sense. I dunno about this function development thing btw, I don't remember developing my Se, it was always as it is now, but I remember Ti developing or was it the Ni, I'm not sure actually


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## myst91 (Sep 9, 2014)

Cinnamon83 said:


> Thats funny I logged out earlier too because I cant stand the news feed. Its like having to look thru a needle in a hey stack now on FB newsfeed. I like to keep up with long distance family and friends and such but in order to even see that stuff theres a very long scroll thru garbage exactly like what you say with everyone reposting what ever supports their view. (Geez people we get it, yup your running a fucking 5K (what a good do gooder you are for telling us all), yup your running a pyramid scheme, yup your buying a house, yup you just broke up with a boyfriend, yup you want to save all the fucking whales, yup you want gun control. SHUT THE FUCK UP ALL YOU LOONEYS :happy:


Why is it a problem when people post stuff that shows their views? I'm not sure I get the idea behind your rant...?


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## myst91 (Sep 9, 2014)

Saturnian Devil said:


> Keys2Cog is iffy, so I can't say I blame you. While I found my result interesting, I knew it didn't fit. It was just kind of funny to me in a way.


Interesting, I redid it now and got ISTP!! (ISTP > ESTP > ISTJ) now, with Ti and Se still close to each other as usual, I think I know what it depends on whether it gives me ISTP or ESTP...


_Cognitive Process	Level of Development (Preference, Skill and Frequency of Use)
extraverted Sensing (Se) ********************************************* (45.8)
excellent use
introverted Sensing (Si) ************************************** (38.6)
excellent use
extraverted Intuiting (Ne) ************** (14.2)
unused
introverted Intuiting (Ni) ********************* (21.3)
limited use
extraverted Thinking (Te) ****************************************** (42.8)
excellent use
introverted Thinking (Ti) ********************************************** (46.7)
excellent use
extraverted Feeling (Fe) *************** (15.1)
unused
introverted Feeling (Fi) *************** (15.3)
unused_


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## counterintuitive (Apr 8, 2011)

Cinnamon83 said:


> Naw your not bugging me at all
> 
> Lol yes you sound alot like him. I would like to explain that I really can recognize the genius in Ne. Where I struggle with it is when it haults productivity. I am all for a separate creative department for you all to pick your brain in work environments where its necessary. Because you guys are the ones inventing the products that increase productivity. BUT lol when it drives me nutz is when an Ne user stops production outside conducive creative environments to teeter off. So seriously respect the creative genius. quite alot. But Ne users from my view need to simply distinguish the conducive creative working environments catering to that and rec time vs when theres a time and place to get stuff done. I am saying that as a production manager lol. Its basically been my job to crack the whip. And its not an attack of Ne, I actually rebutted to an INTJ a while back who was arguing they are the most productive I about fell to the floor laughing, I explained no you guys are the best strategists. But that consumption with strategy actually prohibits productivity. And hey its a double inch sword with them all Se can be impulsive and miss things or not be as thorough. So I really see a purpose in all of it. Balanced :happy:


And I respect the need to get things done, in a practical and efficient fashion - at the end of the day shit needs to get done, companies need to produce widgets and not only create new widgets and new ways of making widgets. As you say, though, that needs to be balanced against process improvement and developing products that will be better in the long run. A lot of organizations have creative departments for just this reason (think R&D) and that's ultimately where I want to end up in my career, for basically exactly this reason lol. (Guess this conversation confirms my type a bit more haha - practicality/usefulness has never really been a prime concern for me - and I don't have much need for action, I can talk about it for hours/days/years and never take action.)

Not attacking at all btw! It's fair to say that there are "get things done" oriented environments and "creative" oriented environments. In an ideal world, everyone would be able to work where they fit best (as people, not just based on type) but everyone's gotta put food on the table so you end up with people doing jobs that aren't well-suited to them.


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## BroNerd (Nov 27, 2010)

myst91 said:


> Why is it a problem when people post stuff that shows their views? I'm not sure I get the idea behind your rant...?


I usually just ignore stuff like that. With about 1000 Facebook friends, there's a lot of "garbage" on my news feed.


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## FearAndTrembling (Jun 5, 2013)

You seem STP to me. You seem extremely relaxed. lol.


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## Saturnian Devil (Jan 29, 2013)

myst91 said:


> Heh I know what you mean. I once managed to get ISTP somehow.  I don't even know how :tongue:


I always get ISTP and it really fits tbh. 



> OK so you never do this being too impatient to sit and just start getting around somehow? That to me is a good way to pick up the details I need on the move and make sense of them. Easier than sitting and guessing..


Nope. I am one of those people who can sit down for a while if I want to. Just not for longer than a few days at a time or else I'll go into a Ti-Ni loop. When I find myself getting restless that's usually a sign that it's time for me to get up and do something. Anything. 



> When you say Ti is still working and doesn't ever turn off... is it like I described for myself in post #30 or is it constantly active thinking that you actually notice?
> 
> Yeah I also don't like to be inactive for long. Hm well, when I am actually resting, I'm not really sorting out information, that to me is not being inactive/lazy. I see it as actual mental work. Also, I usually sort out the information while acquiring it. Though sometimes it's more about retrospective analysis of situations when I'm able to to analyse them, this isn't always possible right away, I may need more information first to develop a better understanding to go off of. I either can analyse something right away or not. If not, I know that it's not possible, I feel the mental "wall" beyond which I cannot yet go.


Mental work doesn't bother me on my downtime. It appears that I may be lazy but really I'm just in my head analyzing things. It's Se that I notice. I notice it in my room and how it's decorated, the clothing I choose to wear on a given day, the quick turn of my head when I notice something interesting outside, etc. As far as Ti goes though I have a tendency to get into deep thought during down time and not take action because I'm thinking. Even if automatically sorting out information as I acquire it I find that I do it much more easily if I'm sitting around afterwards without external distractions. 



> Er, how is the Ni inferior different from this?
> 
> I understand them too (abstractions) and I do care for them, it's fascinating and inspiring stuff, but I would not be able to spend all day with it. It'd be too draining to be doubly introverted in this Ti/Ni mode even though it's kind of awesome too.
> 
> ...


Makes sense. Most ESTPs I know really suck at patterns and don't really get that AHA! moment ISTPs get. Also ESTPs are typically a bit better with Fe. ESTPs are also friendlier so to speak. 

Personally though because I'm a visual artist it is easy for me to tap into it if needed. And I know what you meant about Ni lol. To me it's really all the same thing. Theory, symbolism, etc. I prefer the tangible either way even if I find some stuff like astrology or psychology interesting to a minimal degree. Most of it bores me though. 



> I do have a bit higher tolerance than this.. I don't get worn out by emotional people doing drama, I just try to analyze it like any other input, lol. I don't really get emotional myself most of the time with these drama thingies, why do you get worn out by it, do you get too emotional? I only get like that if I allow myself to care enough to get really involved but that's really rare and definitely not with most people. That would be wearing me out faster, sure, but otherwise no, not at all. And yes, I try to find a solution like you describe, that's one of the reasons why I analyze it heh.


The thing with me is that I only get worn out when having to deal with unhealthy feelers or toxic emotionally melodramatic people in general because of how manipulative and conniving they tend to be. Healthy feelers I can be fine around as long as they're not asking me to talk about my feelings. To be honest however most people's emotional reactions to certain things don't make logical sense to me. When it comes to drama, it doesn't emotionally affect me or anything either unless I get too involved but that rarely happens as I'm usually too indifferent to care in the first place. I simply notice, think "oh okay they're being stupid again" and move along. Generally speaking though when it comes to deep emotions I only tolerate the deep emotions of those who matter to me. Those outside my circle, meh. I'm not concerned by how they feel though I will be polite. I am actually called cold and distant by a lot of people who don't know me at all lol. It doesn't offend me because I know it's true. 

ESTPs I know may be about as awkward with feelings as ISTPs but I've noticed a difference: they are a little more concerned about others and especially by what others think of them. Meanwhile I don't really care about how people see me and never really have. 



> OK I don't know about this myself as I don't socialize often enough


Makes sense. I socialize but only because I have to in order to maintain certain friendships. However partying all the time and acting like the stereotypical extrovert is totally not me lol. I don't like dealing with humans every single day in person. 



> Yeah that makes sense. I dunno about this function development thing btw, I don't remember developing my Se, it was always as it is now, but I remember Ti developing or was it the Ni, I'm not sure actually


Sounds like Se might be your dominant function then if you remember Ti developing. I remember when Se started to develop but Ti was always the main one. As a child I was very quiet and did not speak at all. Didn't interact with children either though I did like to physically engage with my environment.


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## Saturnian Devil (Jan 29, 2013)

Cinnamon83 said:


> Thats funny I logged out earlier too because I cant stand the news feed. Its like having to look thru a needle in a hey stack now on FB newsfeed. I like to keep up with long distance family and friends and such but in order to even see that stuff theres a very long scroll thru garbage exactly like what you say with everyone reposting what ever supports their view. (Geez people we get it, yup your running a fucking 5K (what a good do gooder you are for telling us all), yup your running a pyramid scheme, yup your buying a house, yup you just broke up with a boyfriend, yup you want to save all the fucking whales, yup you want gun control. SHUT THE FUCK UP ALL YOU LOONEYS :happy:


Typically speaking my news feed isn't very chaotic. Usually it's dead. The election stuff is still happening and I suppose people are still not past it yet so I'm leaving them to it. My solution is hiding certain people from my news feed or blocking/unfriending if necessary lol.


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

myst91 said:


> Why is it a problem when people post stuff that shows their views? I'm not sure I get the idea behind your rant...?


People may post their views. I support freedom to express whatever stupid speech people prefer. i.e. I in no way support censorship to silence the public. 

That said Sat. Dev. & I were just discussing our own takes on how people relay their political views and other on FB. 

So yes I support the right for everyone to do what they want with their profile. But it does not mean that I cannot comment that half their content is garbage that is just to support their personal politics or causes and it floods the news feed.


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## ai.tran.75 (Feb 26, 2014)

Cinnamon83 said:


> Never type ENTP on mbti tests.
> 
> On mbti tests I test IXTP back and forth.
> But on functions tests I get ENTP.
> ...


You're most likely an estp- being Perceiving Dom tend to have that effect- I score high on Se as to Si is beyond my lowest function on these cognitive test . I've been reading your answers on forums - I tend to grab more of an Se/ti vibe > Ne 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Saturnian Devil (Jan 29, 2013)

ai.tran.75 said:


> You're most likely an estp- being Perceiving Dom tend to have that effect- I score high on Se as to Si is beyond my lowest function on these cognitive test . I've been reading your answers on forums - I tend to grab more of an Se/ti vibe > Ne
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Yeah, I get the same vibe that you're getting. OP's far more outspoken than I am lol. Not that I consider it a bad thing of course. Just that ISTPs aren't as likely to state what's on their mind all the time.


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## Saturnian Devil (Jan 29, 2013)

Cinnamon83 said:


> People may post their views. I support freedom to express whatever stupid speech people prefer. i.e. I in no way support censorship to silence the public.
> 
> That said Sat. Dev. & I were just discussing our own takes on how people relay their political views and other on FB.
> 
> So yes I support the right for everyone to do what they want with their profile. But it does not mean that I cannot comment that half their content is garbage that is just to support their personal politics or causes and it floods the news feed.


Pretty much. We were also discussing how we deal with it since it's clear we handle it differently. Cinnamon83's probably more likely to tell them to piss off whereas I'm just like, "Okay, time to hide these people from my feed for a bit until they calm down lol."


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

Someone up in this thread pointed out the first function is so automatic for us it is invisible - like your heart beat, it is so close and consistent you can't feel it. 
I like your analogy of Ne being psychadelic. Ne has an ADD feel to me. I have soooooo many ideas all the time it is hard to keep track. 

One thing people do is look at Fe vs Fi in typing. Everyone is better at one or the other, and the feelers can tell pretty quickly which one someone is. I've ALWAYS gotten a sense of strong Fe from you. You truly do care about others, and you truly do work hard to make others happy and you truly do try to make sure people understand you, and don't misinterpret you, and get hurt by your words or actions. There is a sense the Fe is NOT a primary or secondary function. Fe is my third function, and it fascinates me, and I try pretty hard at it, and it both gives me energy and takes a bit of energy, but yet I still try hard at it. 

If you take your childhood as described in this thread, you were pushed HARD as a kid to develop some sort of N to keep up with your family members. your Se was not valued.

You write as if the N stuff is exhausting, and it takes big energy for you. I feel the same way about Si stuff - which happens to be my fourth function. 

I think in another thread you mentioned you enjoy photography? Are you good at it? Is it really easy for you? Are color choices easy for you? 

Sometimes when we get beat up emotionally in life we retreat to places which aren't where we would be when happy. It sounds like you were unhappy, and retreated into yourself for a while. Also, as we grow we sometimes change. As I get older I'm a lot more introverted than I used to be. I spend more time alone, and reading, and researching. 

add it all up, and Fe is your second or third function, probably your third function. N of some sort is your last. That leaves S and T as your first and second, and you have total Ti rather than Te. 

You being an ESTP sure makes sense to me. (smiles) Didn't you mention somewhere you were pretty sure you were a 7? 

If so, I bet you were a WILD WILD WILD teenager!!!!!!


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