# The Picture of Dorian Gray + Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas.



## InextricableImmanence (Jan 16, 2010)

Is anyone else a fan of these two? They seem to both promote hedonism to maximize our experiences with a varied approach.


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## fn0rd (Mar 21, 2010)

I enjoyed the first immensely. Haven't read the second one as of yet.


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## Vaka (Feb 26, 2010)

I haven't read the second one either...As for The Picture of Dorian Gray, I read it in ninth grade English class and loved it!


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## candidkamino (Feb 12, 2010)

fn0rd said:


> I enjoyed the first immensely. Haven't read the second one as of yet.


Ditto.

Aside... sorry this is off topic but I couldn't help but notice your avatar. Wouldn't dying of thirst imply living a life where you are constantly unsatisfied and wanting more. WHereas dying of mediocracy would simply imply accepting life as it is and being at peace? ... curious.


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## amanda32 (Jul 23, 2009)

I'm only familiar with the picture of Dorian grey, but I don't think that it promotes hedomism, actually doesn't it do the opposite? Doesn't Dorian grey live a hedonistic lifestyle and because of it become cruel and evil and that leads to his ultimate demise? 
Oscar Wilde was rather brilliant and an interesting fellow but also a little strange. His hedonistic lifestyle got the better of him in the end too, no?


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## candidkamino (Feb 12, 2010)

amanda32 said:


> I'm only familiar with the picture of Dorian grey, but I don't think that it promotes hedomism, actually doesn't it do the opposite? Doesn't Dorian grey live a hedonistic lifestyle and because of it become cruel and evil and that leads to his ultimate demise?
> Oscar Wilde was rather brilliant and an interesting fellow but also a little strange. His hedonistic lifestyle got the better of him in the end too, no?


I agree! Exactly what I was thinking. but it's been awhile since I read the book.


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## fn0rd (Mar 21, 2010)

candidkamino said:


> Ditto.
> 
> Aside... sorry this is off topic but I couldn't help but notice your avatar. Wouldn't dying of thirst imply living a life where you are constantly unsatisfied and wanting more. WHereas dying of mediocracy would simply imply accepting life as it is and being at peace? ... curious.


Depends you own interpretation, I suppose, but yes... never settling for anything but the best is the gist of it. 

I'd even argue that Accepting life =/= being at peace.


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## Proteus (Mar 5, 2010)

amanda32 said:


> I'm only familiar with the picture of Dorian grey, but I don't think that it promotes hedomism, actually doesn't it do the opposite? Doesn't Dorian grey live a hedonistic lifestyle and because of it become cruel and evil and that leads to his ultimate demise?
> Oscar Wilde was rather brilliant and an interesting fellow but also a little strange. His hedonistic lifestyle got the better of him in the end too, no?


I was thinking the same thing. _Portrait_ is a cautionary tale about unchecked hubris and the inevitable consequences of such, not the promotion of it.

Fear and Loathing doesn't really promote hedonism per se; more like immerse you in the perspective of someone reveling in it while at the same time showing how shallow and purely sensory the nature of the world Gonzo is living in. You see that from the perspective of the protagonists they're having a blast, but in actuality their lives are just a complete mess.


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## greenarrow (Mar 2, 2010)

amanda32 said:


> I'm only familiar with the picture of Dorian grey, but I don't think that it promotes hedomism, actually doesn't it do the opposite? Doesn't Dorian grey live a hedonistic lifestyle and because of it become cruel and evil and that leads to his ultimate demise?
> Oscar Wilde was rather brilliant and an interesting fellow but also a little strange. His hedonistic lifestyle got the better of him in the end too, no?


I agree for the most part. Was Wilde really hedonistic? Or was he just gay and eveyone else thought he was out of control? If I remember, he pissed off some of the magistrates/legislators ( I can't remember why) who would eventually take him down. But I do know he died poor and alone in some crap hotel in France. Man that would suck.


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## amanda32 (Jul 23, 2009)

greenarrow said:


> I agree for the most part. Was Wilde really hedonistic? Or was he just gay and eveyone else thought he was out of control? If I remember, he pissed off some of the magistrates/legislators ( I can't remember why) who would eventually take him down. But I do know he died poor and alone in some crap hotel in France. Man that would suck.


From my fuzzy memory, he spent all his money on partying and travel and drink.


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## Moon Pix (Sep 19, 2009)

Ive never read _Fear_ but I read _Dorian Gray _a couple of months ago and, as an earlier poster mentioned, to me it seems to be a cautionary tale of what can happen to you if you live your life in the pursuit of pure sensation without any regard to morality. From what I understand, Wilde was uncomfortable with what he saw as the hypocritical and stifling morality of Victorian society. To quote Sir Henry Wotton, the cynical and charismatic secondary character in the novel, "I consider that for any man of culture to accept the standard of his age is a form of the grossest immorality."


*SPOILERS FOLLOW*
What must also be remembered is that Wilde was part of the aesthetic movement in literature. He believed that books should be judged purely on the standard of the writing contained within and that writers should not concern themselves with trying to influence or change society through their writing. There is an irony here because when I read the book I personally felt that on one level it worked as a critique of excessive aestheticism. Dorian is depicted first as being a wide eyed innocent experiencing Victorian London for the first time but over time he gradually turns into a thoroughly shallow and amoral aesthete, more interested in the correct way to wear a neck tie than the fact that his fiancee has committed suicide.

I remember the moment where I felt he had become a monster: it was the scene where he is talking to Henry about Sybil Vane's suicide and describes it as the actresses "greatest performance." I remember reading that and knowing that this was a guy who had become a thoroughly corrupt person. As I said earlier, despite Wilde's position as being probably the primary aesthete in England at the time I really feel that _Dorian Gray_ works as a critique of that movement. Dorian fails to redeem himself at the end due to the cynical nature of the attempt (he is still just too self-obsessed and lacking in guilt) and is destroyed.

Wilde was himself a noted libertine. He drank absinthe and smoked opium. I imagine that he had a lot of sex as well. I think this is why its such a confusing book for a lot of people. He wrote a book that basically says "hedonism will rot your soul" and at the same time lived his life in that manner. It would seem to me that to be a hedonist is to embrace a kind of nihilism, a live for today and fuck tomorrow philosophy. Wilde understood that hedonism is ultimately destructive and bad for the soul. Its just that he didnt care.


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