# Thread about how kaleidoscope is an ENTP



## Derange At 170 (Nov 26, 2013)

Yeah, the "data gathering" aspect isn't necessarily Ti, but how she deals with it, or "judges" it, is. She has a lot of threads in the sex and relationships forum, and about how she should deal with interactions in her real life. And she approaches it impersonally and holistically. She doesn't go "this is what the person did and how it affects me, how do I deal with the affect?" she lays out the situation impersonally and approaches it as an interaction rather than something that affects her value judgment system. And she tries to construct an impersonal model of what's going on to make sense of it. Basically, she doesn't approach her interactions with others as things that are done upon her, but as systems that need to be understood. *Edit:* I will say, though, that xNTPs are much more open when it comes to considering other POVs than xNFPs are because they're less tied to their own value judgments. So they do more data gathering than Fi-users do. The problems is quantifying that and putting a number to it, though.

Also, in one-on-one conversations, it came to light that she generally seems to view things being done wrong to her as "why would someone do that?" and not so much as "why would someone do that to me?". 

She's also not particularly positivist about her values. A Ti user seeks ways in which to solve various problems consistently, whereas ethical questions pertaining to social interactions are more situational and context dependent. "What is right in that moment for what reason?". Fi, however, looks at the subject's values and tries to apply these consistently -- it tries to tackle ethical questions fairly consistently, whereas actual problem solving is rather situational.

Much like how Te-doms size up a situation/problem and come up with a solution for that situation, whereas Ti-users are more about understanding vast systems that they can apply to various situations. Fe/Fi are the same way in regards to ethical topics regarding interpersonal problems and values.

She's much more in the Fe/Ti camp. She seeks structures that explain phenomena, but in her interactions with others, she's very much in the moment.


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## Derange At 170 (Nov 26, 2013)

Mindbot said:


> She's got Fi and Te mate.
> 
> The way she approaches problems when we play games is completely Te structured.
> 
> She also gets super flustered when I tease her over things, which is more of an Fi reaction than an Fe one.


These aren't really arguments, though. It seems you're appealing to your confirmation bias.


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## Nuberschutze (Apr 11, 2015)

-- del --


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## Derange At 170 (Nov 26, 2013)

Yeah, I mean, I'm a fairly cautious typer and I didn't even think she was an ENTP until fairly recently. But I just do not see much Fi in her at all. I mean, yeah, she's a bubbly and engaging personality and she exudes warmth. But that shouldn't disqualify anyone from being a Ti user. In fact, ENTPs for example, tend to be outwardly much warmer than they actually function and function much more robotically than they appear. In contrast to, say, an INTJ, who are generally bundles of love who don't really have the tools to express it.


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## Kynx (Feb 6, 2012)

No chance. There's no way an entp could spend as much time on the infp forum as Kaleidoscope has without pissing them all off.


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## daleks_exterminate (Jul 22, 2013)

@psychedelicmango @Drunk Parrot @Pifanjr @dracula @Polexia @SaintAlia @that @IDontThinkSo

:laughing:


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## Polexia (Apr 22, 2014)

From what I've seen. I don't really see her as ENTP. I don't know her that well though, but from what I've seen around the forum and in Mafia when I first started playing. I think you are wrong @Derange At 170


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## Posh Eagle (May 26, 2015)

daleks_exterminate said:


> :laughing: *bullshit*


Laughing may not have been your finest idea. Even if she is not an ENTP, she can easily become one in a reasonable number of years. I assumed you would have learned that from interacting with me. I would like to remind you that I will become an INTJ in 2021. 

-Posh Eagle


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## versace (Jul 27, 2016)

kaleidoscope said:


> Mentioning a few people who might help: @versace (since you recently went from ENTP to ENFP), @*ninjahitsawall*, @*Nell*, @*Jamaia*.
> 
> No pressure whatsoever, but if you have any input, this kaleilei appreciates it. :3


Girl, I would _love_ to help!!

In my opinion, you come off very ENTP/ENFP in your posts, so it's hard to decipher which one seems stronger. However, I'm a big believer that your MBTI is something personal to you have to discover since you know yourself best. Take the test a couple times and read some stuff up about the differences between ENFP's and ENTPs. Here are some websites that helped me figure it out by a long-shot:
ENFP vs. ENTP | Prelude Character Analysis
Type Contrast: ENTP vs. ENFP Sometimes, people get... - Funky MBTI in Fiction
ENTP - ENFP Differences? - INTJ Forum
https://backwardstimemachine.wordpr...two-distinct-breeds-of-extraverted-intuition/

Try to analyze how you make decisions. Do you go with gut feelings? Do you go with what seems like "outside rationale" or with what feels right to you? Also think about the way you phrase things to people. If you're giving advice to someone, are you going to tell it to them like it is even if it's ugly, or tell them how to fix their problems while still trying the best you can not to hurt their feelings. 

Another big tip is to watch how ENTP's interact vs how ENFP's interact. Stalk through the forums and read the way that they talk to people. Does it remind you of yourself and the way you carry yourself? Which one reminds you the most of yourself?

And the biggest and the most important is *do not be swayed by who you want to be*. For a while, I didn't wanna think of myself as an ENFP because I loved how smart and quick-witted ENTPs are (not that anything is wrong with my people because I love my fellow ENFPs :laughing. Be honest with yourself as you read through this. Rather than comparing the information you read to the person you want to be, compare to the person you naturally are. It can be really hard for me to figure out the difference, but once you figure it out there is so much relief. It's such a weight off your shoulders to be honest with yourself, and that's what MBTI is all about. 

I'm no expert on this by any means but I hope this helps  I know the struggle of not being able to figure out your type. It kinda feels like an identity crisis as ridiculous as it may sound!! But take your time and have fun with it. There's no point in rushing into anything, so take all the time in the world that you need. Good luck!


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## mangodelic psycho (Jan 12, 2015)

Nuberschutze said:


> @*kaleidoscope* is mistyped as an ENFP and is actually an ENTP.
> 
> Well it does seem like she's either a feely ENTP or a detached ENFP. But then they are middle functions either way. Here are some observations based on her posts:
> 
> ...


Like Moon said, both of those are Ne. 



Derange At 170 said:


> Yeah, the "data gathering" aspect isn't necessarily Ti, but how she deals with it, or "judges" it, is. She has a lot of threads in the sex and relationships forum, and about how she should deal with interactions in her real life. And she approaches it impersonally and holistically. She doesn't go "this is what the person did and how it affects me, how do I deal with the affect?" she lays out the situation impersonally and approaches it as an interaction rather than something that affects her value judgment system. And she tries to construct an impersonal model of what's going on to make sense of it. Basically, she doesn't approach her interactions with others as things that are done upon her, but as systems that need to be understood. Edit: I will say, though, that xNTPs are much more open when it comes to considering other POVs than xNFPs are because they're less tied to their own value judgments. So they do more data gathering than Fi-users do. The problems is quantifying that and putting a number to it, though.
> 
> Also, in one-on-one conversations, it came to light that she generally seems to view things being done wrong to her as "why would someone do that?" and not so much as "why would someone do that to me?".
> 
> ...


No. Approaching something according to how it affects your value system is Fe, not Fi. Fi does impersonally evaluate a situation and with Te coming into play and all its practicality, those combined are the perfect recipe of zoning out of an emotional situation. ENFPs are master compartmentalizers. We are not. 



daleks_exterminate said:


> @*psychedelicmango* @*Drunk Parrot* @*Pifanjr* @*dracula* @*Polexia*
> 
> :laughing: *bullshit*


See above : P


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## 1000BugsNightSky (May 8, 2014)

Nuberschutze said:


> 1.Constantly gathering data? Yup.
> 2.Using that data to form a complete picture and only coming to a conclusion after? Ti.
> Using that data to form an immediate conclusion? Te.
> Or would you disagree?
> ...


1. That is what your post said 

2. This was not said.however, te users dont always form immediate conclusions. Te is also her 3rd function (if enfp), so fi still comes first and she is still a perceiver. I don't know kaleidoscope well enough to analyze her functional stacking though we can assume Ne is her top function (as ENxP) and what you described was purely Ne. So yes, she does that. 

3. Not really.



From the little I have seen though, I would say enfp certainly fits.


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## Necrofantasia (Feb 26, 2014)

kaleidoscope said:


> Mentioning a few people who might help: @versace (since you recently went from ENTP to ENFP), @*ninjahitsawall*, @*Nell*, @*Jamaia*.
> 
> No pressure whatsoever, but if you have any input, this kaleilei appreciates it. :3


Kaleilei I can't really make pronouncements since I don't know you in person. How you operate in online social media may be different from how you do in a real life setting. 

Also I rage a lot at videogames, makes me doubt I'm INTP.
Then again...I doubt I'm INTP on a regular basis only to recheck and reassure myself for a period of time before falling back into doubt.


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## IDontThinkSo (Aug 24, 2011)

daleks_exterminate said:


> @*psychedelicmango* @*Drunk Parrot* @*Pifanjr* @*dracula* @*Polexia* @*SaintAlia* @*that* @*IDontThinkSo*
> 
> :laughing:


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## Derange At 170 (Nov 26, 2013)

psychedelicmango said:


> No. Approaching something according to how it affects your value system is Fe, not Fi. Fi does impersonally evaluate a situation and with Te coming into play and all its practicality, those combined are the perfect recipe of zoning out of an emotional situation. ENFPs are master compartmentalizers. We are not.


Fe is objective value judgment. Feeling refers to value judgment of the object; that which lies outside of the subject. The subject being the user of the function. It externalizes value judgment. Fe-doms tend to make greater appeal to shared values when they judge an action to be ethical or not.

Fi is subjective value judgment. It refers to the value judgment of the subject/user. Hence its introverted orientation. It wouldn't make sense to refer to "Fi" as being "impersonal" since the subject is the person.

Fe/Ti and Te/Fi are both practical in different ways, or transformative rather. Te and Fe are both tranformative, and Fi and Ti are both contemplative. They just seek to transform and contemplate in other areas. Of course, a Ti>Fe user seeks to contemplate over transform. Whereas an Fe>Ti user seeks to transform more than contemplate (Same with Fi>Te and Te>Fi respectively).


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## SaintAlia (Jan 6, 2015)

"Argument for Fe: in her threads she tends to respond to as many people as possible and listen to what everyone has to say. Essentially trying to make everyone be and feel heard. That whole social equilibrium thing Fe has going."

Hearing what others have to say about a topic still sounds like Ne to me, and Te could be involved if she were trying to come up with a clear and somewhat objective answer/solution to a question/problem. 

I have not personally interacted with her more than once on the forum, but have read a few of her posts and she seems very ENFP to me.


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## Pifanjr (Aug 19, 2014)

I would say definite ENFP. Not the same drive to debate as an ENTP, uses way more gifs than I've seen any ENTP use and not the same level of bluntness I've seen in the ENTPs I know.

Regarding the point that she listens to everyone in the thread being evidence of Fe: it often seems ENTPs rather hear themselves talk than listening to everyone else :tongue:. My theory is that most of the time they do listen, they just don't acknowledge because it would be a waste of time that could be used to spouting more ideas.

Actually, in this thread http://personalitycafe.com/entp-forum-visionaries/902250-5-ways-annoy-entp.html, people-pleasing behaviour is mentioned as one of the things that can really annoy ENTPs. ENTPs will do the minimum required to keep harmony, but other than that they're not going to go out their way to make sure people like them. Who cares about whether someone likes them, it only matters how hard their arguments can be crushed :laughing:


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## Nuberschutze (Apr 11, 2015)

-- del --


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## 1000BugsNightSky (May 8, 2014)

Pifanjr said:


> , uses way more gifs than I've seen any ENTP use ñ


You haven't met @gogirl768


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## 1000BugsNightSky (May 8, 2014)

Nuberschutze said:


> "Introverted Feeling (Fi) is a function that deals with the person's own individual feelings and beliefs." <- inherently personal, similar to how Ti is inherently personal.
> 
> What you're talking about are specific situations where Fi isn't being used at all, because the situation doesn't touch on that Fi-user's internal values, feelings and beliefs. In other words: that compartmentalization is pure Te. Add in a whiff of something that touches on their core values and that compartmentalization becomes compromised.
> 
> ...


Complete picture /is/ ne. That is perception, more specifically intuition. Ti is how that picture is formed and "trying to create a complete picture" does not mention that. 
You mention "...pushing for a conclusion", that is fair. But again, is typical xxxP. How does she analyze the info she perceives? Is the Ji/e.


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## Kynx (Feb 6, 2012)

Derange At 170 said:


> Yeah, I mean, I'm a fairly cautious typer and I didn't even think she was an ENTP until fairly recently. But I just do not see much Fi in her at all. I mean, yeah, she's a bubbly and engaging personality and she exudes warmth. But that shouldn't disqualify anyone from being a Ti user. In fact, ENTPs for example, tend to be outwardly much warmer than they actually function and function much more robotically than they appear. In contrast to, say, an INTJ, who are generally bundles of love who don't really have the tools to express it.


Entp's are outwardly warmer due to Ne. Intuition can appear in the form of the other 3 functions. 
When Ne appears in the form of Feeling, people confuse it with Fe. That's why Entp's often appear to have well developed Fe, when they're not actually 'using' Fe at all.


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## Nuberschutze (Apr 11, 2015)

-- del --


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## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

Pifanjr said:


> I would say definite ENFP. Not the same drive to debate as an ENTP, uses way more gifs than I've seen any ENTP use and not the same level of bluntness I've seen in the ENTPs I know.


What does gif use have to do with cognitive functions? I'm really curious about that one. 

How does level of bluntness correlate? I've seen plenty of NTs be passive aggressive and indirect, particularly at low levels of health.


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## Pifanjr (Aug 19, 2014)

kaleidoscope said:


> What does gif use have to do with cognitive functions? I'm really curious about that one.


It's based on observed stereotypes, I'm not sure what the connection would be to functions. 



> How does level of bluntness correlate? I've seen plenty of NTs be passive aggressive and indirect, particularly at low levels of health.


Again, stereotypes. Yes, NTs can be passive aggressive, but I think ENTPs are the least likely to be. And an unhealthy ENTP would probably not go along as well with a forum full of INFPs.

I'm not saying it's absolutely impossible for you to be an ENTP, I don't know you well enough to type you without using stereotypes, but from what I've seen, I would say you seem like a pretty stereotypical ENFP.


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## Mindbot (Sep 30, 2014)

Derange At 170 said:


> These aren't really arguments, though. It seems you're appealing to your confirmation bias.





Jamaia said:


> How so?


If you want me to be specific, she uses inductive logic more than deductive logic when forming a conclusion. Inductive logic is the standard method of thinking Te users apply when approaching a problem. They can use deductive logic as well, but it doesn't happen naturally.

More specifically I have an ENTJ friend (Te dom) and @kaleidoscope uses logic that is more similar to his than that of my own.

Fi vs Fe is harder to determine, I base it on emotional response from certain stimuli. Her responses are more similar to my INFP friends than to my ENTP friends.

See a pattern here in my reasoning?

I use people I know of specific MBTI types as templates to compare against when I need to determine a new person's functions. I find this to be reliable because the people I use as templates fit 99% into the type they have identified themselves as.

It's not a confirmation bias. I simply know multiple people of different types I can compare against.

Ergo, she's an ENFP and not ENTP.


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## FearAndTrembling (Jun 5, 2013)

daleks_exterminate said:


> And this is the reason people who are new to typing seem to often confuse entps with enfps.
> 
> Both use Ne first, which takes in information, and looks for "the whole picture."
> 
> ...


Yes, they are. FP are more logical than FJ too. FP are good at expressing their thoughts and shit cuz of Te. They don't want to have to say things twice. They are more thorough. More dignified one might say. lol.

But yes, they write "tighter" posts for example. ENTP is more of a generator and their thoughts are less complete.

What we are discussing is technical writing/communication. Te has been described as "business logic" and that's what it is:

A *technical writer is a professional writer who produces technical documentation that helps people understand and use a product or service.[SUP][1][/SUP] This documentation includes online help, manuals (system, end-user, training), white papers, design specifications, project plans, test plans, business correspondence, etc. 

* A technical writer's main task is to convey information to another person or party in the most clear and effective manner possible.[SUP][3][/SUP][SUP]:4[/SUP] The information that technical writers convey is often complex, and it is one of their main tasks to analyze the information and present it in a format that is easy to read and understand


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## ninjahitsawall (Feb 1, 2013)

kaleidoscope said:


> Mentioning a few people who might help: @*versace* (since you recently went from ENTP to ENFP), @*ninjahitsawall*, @*Nell*, @*Jamaia*.
> 
> No pressure whatsoever, but if you have any input, this kaleilei appreciates it. :3


My impression was always closer to "ENFP with high Te development". There is a lot of T use built into your posts, but it isn't as front-and-center as you see in an NT (and not deficient like you see in immature NF's). It comes off more as descriptiveness, and running through the way events play out in a sequential way. 

OTOH, NT's can come off a bit unscrupulous in their approach, (perhaps more so for ENT*'s), because they are quicker to question others, and spot flaws; but also less hesitant to point it out, and less likely to dismiss or forgive it. 

You can see examples of this in Debates, especially between a heavy F argument and a heavy T argument: 

--Heavy F argument will cause T person to become frustrated,
--T user (more aggressively, due to frustration) says, "nope, here's a list of reasons why you're wrong"
--T user won't try to justify their anger; more likely, they are trying to suppress it..
-- ..which the F user picks up on more than the logical structure of what they're saying..
-- ..and the whole thing goes nowhere. :tongue:

Not saying you do either of those things, but that you don't seem as compelled to hash everything out logically as an ENTP (or NT's in general) would be, to the point of causing that type of conflict. 

See also: a neighboring thread... http://personalitycafe.com/nts-temp...utburst-when-dealing-perceived-stupidity.html

This is all just my opinion though. I think it might be helpful to see an ENFP interact with both an ENTP, and another ENFP, and see which one resonates with you more. So in addition to the theoretical framework of how the functions work, you can actually see how they work in action (Ti vs Te? :rollseyes: 













Mindbot said:


> * *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is off-topic, but I would have thought using people you know as templates from which to form a conclusion (in a probabilistic way, e.g., "99% fit") is in itself a use of inductive logic? 
Inductive Logic (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

(I am more inclined to believe N functions are inductive and T functions are deductive, but that's another thread).


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## Polexia (Apr 22, 2014)

Pifanjr said:


> I would say definite ENFP. Not the same drive to debate as an ENTP, uses way more gifs than I've seen any ENTP use and not the same level of bluntness I've seen in the ENTPs I know.
> 
> Regarding the point that she listens to everyone in the thread being evidence of Fe: it often seems ENTPs rather hear themselves talk than listening to everyone else :tongue:. *My theory is that most of the time they do listen, they just don't acknowledge because it would be a waste of time that could be used to spouting more ideas.*


This :tongue: 



> Actually, in this thread http://personalitycafe.com/entp-forum-visionaries/902250-5-ways-annoy-entp.html, people-pleasing behaviour is mentioned as one of the things that can really annoy ENTPs. ENTPs will do the minimum required to keep harmony, but other than that they're not going to go out their way to make sure people like them. Who cares about whether someone likes them, it only matters how hard their arguments can be crushed :laughing:


Good point! We often hear or self talk rather then listen to others.


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## DAPHNE XO (Jan 16, 2012)

Wow, I see the haterz are out in full force today.









All those worried about OP's type, why don't you just worry about your own type?

Busy bodies.


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## Polexia (Apr 22, 2014)

Derange At 170 said:


> Yeah, the "data gathering" aspect isn't necessarily Ti, but how she deals with it, or "judges" it, is. She has a lot of threads in the sex and relationships forum, and about how she should deal with interactions in her real life. And she approaches it impersonally and holistically. She doesn't go "this is what the person did and how it affects me, how do I deal with the affect?" she lays out the situation impersonally and approaches it as an interaction rather than something that affects her value judgment system. And she tries to construct an impersonal model of what's going on to make sense of it. Basically, she doesn't approach her interactions with others as things that are done upon her, but as systems that need to be understood. *Edit:* I will say, though, that xNTPs are much more open when it comes to considering other POVs than xNFPs are because they're less tied to their own value judgments. So they do more data gathering than Fi-users do. The problems is quantifying that and putting a number to it, though.
> 
> Also, in one-on-one conversations, it came to light that she generally seems to view things being done wrong to her as "why would someone do that?" and not so much as "why would someone do that to me?".
> 
> ...


I know an ENFP that I can picture doing just that though. (The eg on threads in relationship bla bla) She might just be a mature ENFP or her ennegram might play a role. 
@kaleidoscope what is your ennegram?


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## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

@Polexia @Pifanjr @psychedelicmango @SaintAlia

With all due respect, you don't know me. I've literally never interacted with any of you previously, except for the occasional post. I usually welcome feedback of all types, even people who are not familiar with me, if they're willing to provide accurate information on cognitive functions and how they pertain to type - rather than based on stereotypes such as use of gifs or level of bluntness. I'm also quite aware of your personal bias with me. You've said your piece, please stop posting in my typing thread unless you have objective and accurate information to offer.


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## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

DAPHNE LXIV said:


> Wow, I see the haterz are out in full force today.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## DAPHNE XO (Jan 16, 2012)

I just used a gif, must be an ISFP.


Logic just pwned me, woah!


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## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

DAPHNE LXIV said:


> I just used a gif, must be an ISFP.


:laughing: Beat me to it.


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## Polexia (Apr 22, 2014)

kaleidoscope said:


> @Polexia @Pifanjr @psychedelicmango @SaintAlia
> 
> With all due respect, you don't know me. I've literally never interacted with any of you previously, except for the occasional post. I usually welcome feedback of all types, even people who are not familiar with me, if they're willing to provide accurate information on cognitive functions and how they pertain to type - rather than based on stereotypes such as use of gifs or level of bluntness. I'm also quite aware of your personal bias with me. You've said your piece, please stop posting in my typing thread unless you have objective and accurate information to offer.


Hey. I never said anything stereotypical. I honestly wondered and wanted to help. That's why I asked about enneagram because I felt that might shed some more light. That's all. But if my input is Unwelcomed. I'll butt right out. No problem and best of whatever.


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## Polexia (Apr 22, 2014)

DAPHNE LXIV said:


> I just used a gif, must be an ISFP.
> 
> 
> Logic just pwned me, woah!


:shocked:

I think you are on to something 

:shocked: :shocked:


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## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

Derange At 170 said:


> Yeah, the "data gathering" aspect isn't necessarily Ti, but how she deals with it, or "judges" it, is. She has a lot of threads in the sex and relationships forum, and about how she should deal with interactions in her real life. And she approaches it impersonally and holistically. She doesn't go "this is what the person did and how it affects me, how do I deal with the affect?" she lays out the situation impersonally and approaches it as an interaction rather than something that affects her value judgment system. And she tries to construct an impersonal model of what's going on to make sense of it. Basically, she doesn't approach her interactions with others as things that are done upon her, but as systems that need to be understood. *Edit:* I will say, though, that xNTPs are much more open when it comes to considering other POVs than xNFPs are because they're less tied to their own value judgments. So they do more data gathering than Fi-users do. The problems is quantifying that and putting a number to it, though.


Thinking about this further, I wonder if this has anything to do with my training as a therapist, because I find myself approaching all situations around me by conceptualizing it in terms of an overarching pattern, a cycle to be found, and how the different pieces fit within that realm. It's like I immediately take on an observer role, even in situations where I am personally involved. Kind of like 'zooming out' for lack of better word and trying to look at the situation from far away, as if I'm not even affected by it and I'm just a random person. I think the confusing thing for me, is that I analyze things thoroughly, from every angle, and I spend more time theorizing and trying to make sense of the situation than trying to refine my value judgments.

But I don't think Fi is necessarily about value judgments only? I would say Fi can also be about analyzing a situation and generating personal impressions. @Neverontime, could you chip in here about your experience of Fi?

I do relate to not having very strong values that apply to every situation no matter what. That's one of the first reasons I was so iffy about Fi; because I don't have this strong sense of right and wrong. However, I do have a _few_ values that mean a LOT to me: freedom, autonomy, independence, authenticity/honesty. Those are things that do trigger strong reactions out of me when violated. Again, feels more like Fi?



Neverontime said:


> Entp's are outwardly warmer due to Ne. Intuition can appear in the form of the other 3 functions.
> When Ne appears in the form of Feeling, people confuse it with Fe. That's why Entp's often appear to have well developed Fe, when they're not actually 'using' Fe at all.


Didn't think about it that way, that's interesting and very likely.


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## IDontThinkSo (Aug 24, 2011)

Yes, intuitions aren't a feeling, however they are easier to feel (hence the confusion), as the function Feeling counts on the idealization (turning into sensorial/emotional experience) of concepts (patterns, understanding, logic) to make a judgment. Using patterns to judge patterns is much more rough on the brain and easily leads to lose sight of the big picture. Yet using feelings can lack precision and rigor. It all depends on what is processed and judged though.. the smarter people are those who know when to switch and have the ability to do so.


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## Polexia (Apr 22, 2014)

kaleidoscope said:


> Thinking about this further, I wonder if this has anything to do with my training as a therapist, because I find myself approaching all situations around me by conceptualizing it in terms of an overarching pattern, a cycle to be found, and how the different pieces fit within that realm. It's like I immediately take on an observer role, even in situations where I am personally involved. Kind of like 'zooming out' for lack of better word and trying to look at the situation from far away, as if I'm not even affected by it and I'm just a random person. I think the confusing thing for me, is that I analyze things thoroughly, from every angle, and I spend more time theorizing and trying to make sense of the situation than trying to refine my value judgments.
> 
> But I don't think Fi is necessarily about value judgments only? I would say Fi can also be about analyzing a situation and generating personal impressions. @Neverontime, could you chip in here about your experience of Fi?
> 
> ...


So you have training as a therapist? Cause that does add to the equation and might definitely effect how you interact with others, but also how others perceive you. 

Especially if it makes you take on the traits you mention (which might seem ENTP in nature). 

As for FI. It's not all about values its also a navigational tool (as I've understood it) that also affects personal taste and feelings. (Just as a random adding to what you say about Fi)

(I'm trying to explain my thinking these days :kitteh: cause "reasons") 

Disclaimer: 
-I usually type people based on feeling. How they seem to me. If they feel right for a particular type or not. So I'm by no means proclaiming to be an expert of typing. Although my gut feel is often right.


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## Polexia (Apr 22, 2014)

I'm gonna but out now. Although I do enjoy a good puzzle. :wink:


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## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

Polexia said:


> So you have training as a therapist? Cause that does add to the equation and might definitely effect how you interact with others, but also how others perceive you.
> 
> Especially if it makes you take on the traits you mention (which might seem ENTP in nature).
> 
> ...


I don't mind you sticking around to help me make sense of this; I also don't need an expert on typing so much as I need people who aren't biased. There's been too much "you can't be a part of the cool NT group(s)" going around on this forum, for far too long. Fi is often correlated with "constantly butthurt", and it's frustrating as well as inaccurate. No type is inherently better, superior, or more intelligent/intellectual than the other. 

Yeah, I'm training to become a therapist, so it does make me more analytical and "detached" (for lack of better word) than your average person. I do analyze myself excessively too, though. I'm always thinking to myself: why did I do this? What's the motivation? Where does my behavior come from? Which, from my understanding, seems to fit with Fi? 

I think @*Derange At 170* started noticing my lack of Fi (his words) because I don't have too many value judgments, not much offends me, and I understand that a lot of things are contextual and circumstantial. I just shrug a lot of stuff off as "that's you, you do your thing".


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