# why are so many people unhappy in marriage?



## curious0610 (Jun 27, 2010)

i'm sincerely interested in hearing people's opinions about this - just from my observations, i've seen so many people unhappy in marriage. and i wonder, why is this? sometimes i see compatible people who clearly enjoyed each other's company at one point, cared deeply for each other and were so happy with each other.... but now they are so unhappy. It's not that they are fighting or not getting along, but they're just plain old unhappy.... seriously... almost every single married couple I know (who have been married for more than 5 years) seem unhappy - disproportionately, I have sensed the unhappy vibes from more women then men. again, it's not that they are clashing or fighting, but they are living normal (but unhappy lives)... it makes me wonder why? i know a lot of marriages end in divorce (and i know of families who are dealing with major issues), but those aside, even the marriages that have no apparent problems.... still seem laden with unhappiness...


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## Fizz (Nov 13, 2010)

Finances and unmet expectations.


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## jack london (Aug 27, 2010)

I'm not unhappy in my marriage but I guess to be fair we should ask my wife.


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## Kid (Feb 17, 2011)

Fizz said:


> Finances and unmet expectations.


It probably gets boring after a while too...


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## Fizz (Nov 13, 2010)

Kid said:


> It probably gets boring after a while too...


That would probably fall into unmet expectations. As one might think they and their partner may never run out things to do, things to talk about, etc. It also depends upon the outlook of the people and how willing they are to make it work.


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## viva (Aug 13, 2010)

This might sound crazy... but, I mean, realistically, when you think about it... marriage isn't natural. It isn't really natural for a person to WANT to be permanently bonded to someone, with no real option of getting out (without a lot of trouble). Society and cultural norms and history have made marriage something that seems totally normal, when in reality, only certain types of people and certain types of personalities are going to be naturally able to make marriage work. Everyone else is going to have to work at it. And if they don't, they will be unhappy, because it's not really human nature. *shrug*

That's just my ultra-crazy opinion.


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## Mysteriousness (Feb 24, 2011)

Kid said:


> It probably gets boring after a while too...


yeah dude ide get bored with the same person after like 30 years


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## jack london (Aug 27, 2010)

I've known my wife for 20 years and I wouldn't describe it as boredom more like comfortable. Trust me you guys are all the excitement I need. :tongue:


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## Fizz (Nov 13, 2010)

vivacissimamente said:


> This might sound crazy... but, I mean, realistically, when you think about it... marriage isn't natural. It isn't really natural for a person to WANT to be permanently bonded to someone, with no real option of getting out (without a lot of trouble). Society and cultural norms and history have made marriage something that seems totally normal, when in reality, only certain types of people and certain types of personalities are going to be naturally able to make marriage work. Everyone else is going to have to work at it. And if they don't, they will be unhappy, because it's not really human nature. *shrug*
> 
> That's just my ultra-crazy opinion.


Oh yeah, you're the epitome of _crazy_ :crazy: But seriously, you're completely right. It's a social construct that was partly created to guarantee the lineage of offspring so they (usually sons) could inherit what their father passed down (for patriarchal societies).


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## pukainthewall (Feb 10, 2011)

vivacissimamente said:


> This might sound crazy... but, I mean, realistically, when you think about it... marriage isn't natural. It isn't really natural for a person to WANT to be permanently bonded to someone, with no real option of getting out (without a lot of trouble). Society and cultural norms and history have made marriage something that seems totally normal, when in reality, only certain types of people and certain types of personalities are going to be naturally able to make marriage work. Everyone else is going to have to work at it. And if they don't, they will be unhappy, because it's not really human nature. *shrug*
> 
> That's just my ultra-crazy opinion.


I also agree with you, couples just do it because its so normal, there is no thought about it. Some folks don't want to believe that there is a possibility they may fall out of love, get bored, etc. It is a security thing. I am generalizing here, because I know there are some marriages that are well. Please check out this article below

http://www.messagefrommasters.com/Shiva-Shakti/osho_on_marriage.htm


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## Mysteriousness (Feb 24, 2011)

vivacissimamente said:


> This might sound crazy... but, I mean, realistically, when you think about it... marriage isn't natural. It isn't really natural for a person to WANT to be permanently bonded to someone, with no real option of getting out (without a lot of trouble). Society and cultural norms and history have made marriage something that seems totally normal, when in reality, only certain types of people and certain types of personalities are going to be naturally able to make marriage work. Everyone else is going to have to work at it. And if they don't, they will be unhappy, because it's not really human nature. *shrug*
> 
> That's just my ultra-crazy opinion.


they should change the term "Married" to "We're just in this until our kids leave the house, then we are back out in the game"


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## Oleas (Jul 22, 2010)

I don't think marriage is the problem, I think the issue is people getting married when they shouldn't: too early, not compatible, etc. If you're bored after a few years of marriage it's definitely not gonna work. A real lifelong relationship should have many stages, it starts with passion and gradually evolves into unprecedented bonding, friendship. You see really old people that are still in love because they have fun, they share everything and they're each other's best friend. People tend to look for passion first, but no relationship's gonna last if it doesn't have strong roots. And strong roots are only achieved by a deep connection and understanding of the partner on a higher level.


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## Crystall (Mar 30, 2010)

jack london said:


> I'm not unhappy in my marriage but I guess to be fair we should ask my wife.


So you're happy?



Fizz said:


> Oh yeah, you're the epitome of _crazy_ :crazy: But seriously, you're completely right. It's a social construct that was partly created to guarantee the lineage of offspring so they (usually sons) could inherit what their father passed down (for patriarchal societies).


Yes, it was a terrific way for Greek men to own their women, just like they would own a piece of property in ancient Greece. 



Oleas said:


> I don't think marriage is the problem, I think the issue is people getting married when they shouldn't: too early, not compatible, etc. If you're bored after a few years of marriage it's definitely not gonna work. A real lifelong relationship should have many stages, it starts with passion and gradually evolves into unprecedented bonding, friendship. You see really old people that are still in love because they have fun, they share everything and they're each other's best friend. People tend to look for passion first, but no relationship's gonna last if it doesn't have strong roots. And strong roots are only achieved by a deep connection and understanding of the partner on a higher level.


This. I think that you are very right. 

I've never been married, but I know that it's easy to fall into a comfortable pattern with your partner and keep treading in the same steps. I really believe what will make any relationship happy is the amount of work you both put into it, and I think that is something a lot of people tend to forget. It's so easy in the beginning, they just didn't really notice when things changed. You can't take your partner for granted, you can't lose yourself in the relationship or parenting role and stop being your own person, and you can't ignore your sex life. You both have to keep the intimacy alive and keep the close bond strong between you.


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## Darner (Apr 20, 2010)

Since I'm aware of myself, I've been against marriage because I had the idea that my parents are suffering so much in it and I hated the idea of being so miserable. The funniest thing is that they actually get along really well, the problem was in the image movies and fairytales give about marriage - happily ever after, endless romance etc. My parents are best friends, so even if their relationships appears mellow due to the lack of insane love chemistry, I think they're one of the rare people who really understand what marriage is about. And even though they like their relationship, they confessed they probably wouldn't do it again but would stay single. 
I've been doing a research about happiness in marriage from since I was born and discovered that from *all* married couples I know, there isn't a single one that is trully happy after 10 years. Only my cousin; his 11-year-long marriage was the only black spot on this my superb research, because they really looked in love, until I found out just a few months ago they're divorcing because they've been cheating on each other since the 4th year of their relationship.


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## PyrLove (Jun 6, 2010)

Speaking for myself, my unhappiness in my marriage stemmed from me not feeling appreciated. I didn't have the confidence when I was younger to speak up so I allowed the problem to grow. Communication, early and honest, is the only way ANY long term relationship (platonic, sexual, or even professional) will be successful with all parties involved being happy.


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## Aerorobyn (Nov 11, 2009)

Well, I'm not married. To be honest, I'm completely scared of marriage. The _idea_ of marriage is nice: I like seeing how fake and insincere they are in fairytale movies, and it's nice to think that "happily ever after" _could_ exist. However, reality has taught me otherwise. 

I don't know many married couple at all who can say they're truly happy in their marriage; in fact, I can only vouch for one couple off the top of my head: my middle school art teacher, whom I still keep in contact with, and his wife. They have been together for 28 years, and they still look as happy together today as they did when I first met them nearly 10 years ago. 

As somebody else has already said, I don't necessarily think it's marriage - I think it's more-so the people in the marriage. A lot of people get married entirely too soon, as an expectation of society and a sense of security. They don't give their relationship enough time to fully develop, and instead rush into a "secure" and "forever" state or being before they have been able to experience anything beyond the initial 'passion' and 'lust' in the relationship. Maybe if people would wait longer, things would work out better - but that's not the case, and I have a feeling it never will be. 

I honestly don't know if I could ever see myself getting married. Long-term relationships are great, but a marriage just seems so definite... it seems like something so forced, something that wouldn't be natural for me, and something that would leave me feeling trapped and miserable - no matter how much I loved my significant other. A relationship, on the other hand, gives more freedom and flexibility.


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## Elwin (Feb 17, 2011)

There could be innumerable reasons, many of which have already been mentioned. To add another, I suspect that a large chunk of the unhappiness can be traced back to dubious reasons for getting married in the first place. That is, the foundation of the troubled relationship is fragile and built on superficialities such as watching the same shows, loving the same favorite band, or even the theatrics of having a wedding itself.

You can see this when you browse online dating profiles, as all too often, even in cases where the person is explicitly seeking a long-term relationship, they none-the-less fail to include their core values and goals in an otherwise long-winded, self-aggrandizing description full of pop culture references and corny attempts to be humorous. At the end of the day I'm not so sure having the television or radio as a point of social reference for any relationship is such a good idea. Life is not a sitcom or romantic comedy, and when treated as it were, the end result may be all the drama and dysfunction of one.


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## kristle (Oct 21, 2010)

People are becoming more and more unhappy in marriages because they are becoming less and less equipped to maintain them. 

Think about it. We no longer have the married forever mom and dad to direct and teach their children positive ways to cope and thrive in a long term relationship. Instead we are floundering along, trying to care and grow our deep relationships without any idea of HOW to do it. The fact that we want it so bad and that isn't enough to make it happen only creates anger and frustration. (This is based off of those who were in love and wanted to marry for "forever")

I've been married just shy of 10 years now and I can honestly say I'm very happy. But as often as I'm happy I'm constantly trying to figure out how to do this. The times in our marriage where we didn't know if we were going to make it all revolved around us truly not knowing how to express our love in a way that the other person understood it and received it. If you don't grow up in that rare household that teaches you how to care and nurture a mate's needs you can end up trying to show you care one way while your spouse is feeling neglected, resentful and unloved because your good intentions were not getting through.

With our current society, we see one night stands and casual sex glorified along with independence (being single) and looking out for number one as most desirable. If someone gets married with these views it would be hard not to struggle. 

A marriage can create a most trusted bond, with the two being twice as strong and resilient than the one. The idea is a best friend that provides your instinctual needs of belonging, sexual fulfillment, protection, and a deep, spiritual bond. Usually these things are not satisfied through flavor of the week dating, staying single, or always putting yourself first.

Our number of successful role models for long term relationships are shrinking. Leaving behind even fewer people to pass on their tools for success.

Today there is plenty of advice on how to have great sex, but not so much on how to make your partner understand and feel what love is to you. We have busier lives than ever. Couples that are married are no longer sitting together at the table every night for dinner - instead we have take out, the couch, computers or work. The time necessary to maintain a healthy bond is just not there. 

*So if more marriages are failing right now, I'd say the number one cause is our lack of knowledge of how to built and maintain one - not that we aren't suited for it.*


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## Eerie (Feb 9, 2011)

Because people don't want to accept that relationships are work. They aren't just a rush of hormones and hot sex, they are work. When people realize, they have to put effort into things, they usually just give up.


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## thisisme (Apr 11, 2010)

i have been married...and i think the issue is people just assume too much...they fill in the blanks with what they want to believe rather than having the hard conversations to find out for sure...or they don't know themselves well enough to be able to answer truthfully if the right questions are asked. they want to believe they will be able to give each other what they need always and don't want to risk loosing them by looking deep enough to find the truth.

also...life is unpredictable and the many paths you wind up taking change you as a person and you can change in different incompatible ways. i don't know what can be done about this and it's a very sad thing to realize because i truly believe the idea of marriage is such a beautiful thing....and i want to believe in a happy ever after...but...how long do you wait? when do you really know? can you ever really know?


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## jack london (Aug 27, 2010)

Crystall said:


> So you're happy?


It's hard to explain. When you are dating it's just the two of you but as you have children you lose more time with your spouse but you gain time with your children. 

This kind of ties in with the other post about leaving your spouse if they cheated because you don't leave your spouse you would leave the entire family that you have created which is an entirely different question. 

So a person could be unhappy with their relationship but still very happy with the whole family unit (BTW, I'm happy with my wife and my kids )

This is why I think people should try to date as many people as they can when they are young so they learn lots of other people and get the "whatifs" out of their system.


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## MissJordan (Dec 21, 2010)

Because men naturally seek variety in their lives.

Hence, mid-life crisis.
And hence alternative sex (anal).


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## kiwigrl (Apr 27, 2010)

Marriage is so not boring! I guess it depends on what you have in common with your spouse. 
Are they your best friend whom you can talk about anything with? Do you trust them? Do you have spontaneous moments? Do you still make time for dates and intimacy on a regular basis? Do you have the same beliefs? Do you want the same things in life? 

I heard once that only boring people get bored. I am not boring, my husband is not boring and we both find lots of laughs and fun to have. I would hate to be single which in my opinion would be far more boring. I like being with someone who knows me so well, loves me regardless of my flaws and is committed to staying with me until death do us part.

I think those who are unhappy perhaps have forgotten how to keep the spice in their marriage. Trust me, last night was sooooo not boring.:blushed::laughing:


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## AussieChick (Dec 27, 2010)

Speaking from experience i think that people are often unhappy in a marriage because they don't talk to each other,they don't share experiences both good and bad and don't spend quality time with each other anymore.Sometimes this happens after a long time together,and more often than not the marriage starts crumbling shortly after the wedding vows are spoken.
I should never have married my husband.We went to a pre marital session at the church where we married,and it was apparent even then that we weren't compatible,and had different views on important issues.We rushed into marriage,it was barely 12 months from the time we met till our wedding day.One reason for this was that i became pregnant shortly after our engagement (only 3 months after we met).Our twins were born only 3 weeks after our marriage.That old adage at how people change after they marry and have children is so true.My husband was very immature and jealous of the time i spent taking care of the babies.He didn't like me spending time with my family,and was constantly wanting to know when i was coming home.I was more like a slave and a sex toy than a wife.If i asked him to help me with the housework,it was only on certain conditions.I was so unhappy,and really thought 'what have i gotten myself into'.We managed to stay together for seven years but when he started becoming secretive and doing things that i had asked him not to behind my back,that everything unraveled.I found out that he had done a terrible thing that i could never forgive him for,and that was it,i kicked him out,after putting up with lots of other crap over the years.We're still married after being separated for almost ten years.I want a divorce,because i'll never want to live with him again.But being an ISFJ,i'm finding it hard to get the ball rolling and become a free agent again.I do want to meet my mr/ms right,but i can't if i'm still tied to my husbands apron strings.Kiwi girl is right marriage is great if you work together as a team,and keep the fires burning.But in my case,i was the one doing all the work,while my husband thought he could do his own thing.It just doesn't work out that way,it's just a disaster waiting to happen.


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## vel (May 17, 2010)

There are too many reasons why couples are unhappy. Every marriage is unhappy in its own way. But then if you think about it - how many unhappy single people are out there? How many single people wish that they were in a loving stable long-term relationship and not spend the next winter holidays in a bar with strangers trying to hook up with somebody they barely know? How do you statistically measure their dissatisfaction? I mean for marriage there are divorce stasitics, but how do you measure dissatisfaction stemming from being single? And overall isn't unhappiness just a general human condition?


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## Enkidu (Apr 19, 2010)

I would agree with most anthropologists on the theory that humans did not evolve to have or sustain monogamous relationships, or at least longer than necessary. The human primate is ridiculously erotic: males have the largest penis size of all the great apes while women have buttocks and breasts not suitable for anything except sex. 
Take the bonobo, for instance. An unusually peaceful sub-species of chimpanzee, the bonobo use sex as, literally, a social lubricant. Most social situations involve it, are centered around it, and relieve tension between males to males;females to males; and males to females. The bonobo has the most human-like mental and physical characteristics of all the great apes - and I will parrot what I've read - and there is a good amount of evidence to argue that the way in which they function, compared to us moderns, is a more biologically healthy lifestyle. 
See Desmond Morris' _The Naked Ape_ or
_Island_ by Aldous Huxley


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## Bunker Man (Jan 4, 2011)

Because they see relationships as the end-all goal in life, and they realized they reached more or less the end of it's potential, but literally have nothing else in particular to live for. If they view a relationship as the end result goal in itself, rather than a beginning of new types of opportunity, then what? They already have it. Happiness comes from progress. If you aren't constantly making some in something, you'll get depressed.


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## kiwigrl (Apr 27, 2010)

Perhaps the unhappiness OP has seen in marriages is linked to selfishness. If one or the other is very selfish then how can the love survive? It's like pouring poison on a plant and expecting it to still grow. Marriage should be viewed as a journey. Because honestly, who has all of the answers straight off? When I see an elderly couple walking down the street holding hands, I smile and think to myself; ahhh, they have it, the understanding of what it's all about.


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## noosabar (Mar 14, 2010)

familiarity breeds contempt


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## GracieK (Feb 3, 2011)

The marriage rate is too high.


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## perennialurker (Oct 1, 2009)

I suspect it is for the same reasons that people have been getting unhappier about in general. Thus, I do not believe marriage to be the culprit.


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## Nina Rcose (Mar 6, 2011)

Marriage is a masses slavery system
It is useful for of all countries governments and states
families consume and work more than the unmarried
they are more respectful of rules and systems in place
and they are producing more workers for the system
Also marriage settle, and this is vital for the survival of our consumer society
..
..well, easy to continue the reasoning..

But then, if a couple is happy for a thousand years of course why not to continue one thousand more? 
But otherwise.. 
..run wife run..
..run husband run..
Children may not be a pretext, anyway they always are doing very well after awhile
and even before
awhile I mean


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## kiwigrl (Apr 27, 2010)

It's because we live in a consumer society. We want everything and we want it now. We want it to be handed to us on a silver platter and not have to work for it. Well sorry but that doesn't work with marriage. It is doomed from the start with that mentality. 
You must be willing to compromise, willing to give, willing to work and willing to keep winning the other person over. 

I still write the odd love note and leave it on the bench for my husband to find because I know that he values words of encouragement, and my husband knows that I value quality time so he will schedule in time for us to just hang out and talk because he knows that is important to me. I will sometimes put the kids to bed and cook a later dinner for the two of us. I'll light some candles, we have some great discussions at these times, with no interruptions.


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## Stephen (Jan 17, 2011)

holloko said:


> Take the bonobo, for instance.


Keep the bonobo. I did this research too when everything went to hell in my marriage and my then-wife was demanding we go polyamorous, "or else." You can say that bonobo societies are a lot freer with sex, and that they're more like humans than other apes, but remember that _they are not humans_. Yes, marriage was invented to subjugate women. Yes, that may mean that marriage is a broken construct. And yes, maybe eventually most relationships break down and become unsatisfying because the people in them either married when they shouldn't have, or didn't do the work during it.

Shit, I'll even allow that *some* people can do polyamory and not smash their relationship to pieces. In the process of research I interacted with people who seemed happy with it. At least one derided "serial monogamy" as far more irresponsible.

My view is that monogamy is right for most everyone. We need to be really careful who we hook up with, and we have to talk about everything throughout, and if it goes south and we can't fix it, we need to move on like adults. Then we need to learn those lessons and pay attention to how we fucked up, and hope we don't do that to the next person who comes along too.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

holloko said:


> I would agree with most anthropologists on the theory that humans did not evolve to have or sustain monogamous relationships, or at least longer than necessary.


It amuses me when I see this, because the most comprehensive, thorough documentary I ever watched on the topic, on 'TLC' compared all of those -theories- (yes, only theories) to find contradictions. At the end of the documentary, the only conclusion was: "so it seems that some human beings are monogamous, others are not, and some are sometimes." And of course we have all known exceptions to this "fact" that human beings behave like monkeys in heat, never wanting to commit to one partner. 

A piece of evidence in favor of monogamy: in the 60s studies were done on hippy free love communes, and found that many of the people ended up falling in love, pairing up, and leaving the commune behind. Yes, others stayed. My point is that it depends on the individual. 

There are also human neurotransmitters and hormones that create a bonding feeling - that bond is broken between two people when its formed with another. This is why once you 'go there' with another person, say, in a polygamous relationship, your feelings for the former piece of ass cool off. If they stay together and nurture the original connection, it doesn't cool off (unless they have other reasons for breaking that bond of course - such as simply not getting along). There are people who are incapable of forming a real hormonal bond (oxytocin) in the first place - these are rare exceptions. Some are narcissists, others are on the autism spectrum (there are even exceptions to this). I think you'll see my point panning out here that humans are just way too complex to be explained by your monkey explanation here: 



holloko said:


> Take the bonobo, for instance. An unusually peaceful sub-species of chimpanzee, the bonobo use sex as, literally, a social lubricant. Most social situations involve it, are centered around it, and relieve tension between males to males;females to males; and males to females. The bonobo has the most human-like mental and physical characteristics of all the great apes - and I will parrot what I've read - and there is a good amount of evidence to argue that the way in which they function, compared to us moderns, is a more biologically healthy lifestyle.
> See Desmond Morris' _The Naked Ape_ or
> _Island_ by Aldous Huxley


Human beings have a more complex chemistry, and they also have other components that differ from monkeys. Human love, human creativity, intellect - all of these things that make us unique - and you can not draw a line between those, and our biology, as they are all entwined to create this magnificent and complicated species capable of so many things that lesser primates are not -- one of those being, yes, monogamy. 

I agree with the documentary - some human beings prefer polygamy. Some do not. I do not think that those who bounce from partner to partner have the intense and sacred bond that a person has who has only poured these energies into one other love, however. That is ok for them, perhaps they do not desire it. Whatever the case, you can not overgeneralize here and say that all human beings were meant to fuck about. Some of us simply don't desire it after experiencing a meaningful connection. 

There is also the issue of proper parenting. Its impractical to say its the nature of the species to fertilize a woman and move onto the next with reckless abandon. How would that influence child development? There would be lots of neglected children without people to properly provide for them and teach them. The population would get effing stupid - basically.

The issue with marriage today is in part due to our economy and culture being tied in together. The biggest message in this culture is "Discontent" - and that keeps our capitalism thriving. It also kills lasting relationships. Advertising plays on our most base fears in order to convince us to live a lifestyle of never settling, and in never settling, we never settle on a mate. We spend all of our money on beauty products in order to attain a particular look, because its sold to us - and we do this because we are also given a message that we will not find love unless we do this. Men on the other hand are given the message that they have to acquire lots of wealth and commodities in order to attract a female of that cultural beauty standard.. but what happens once you acquire this, when there is no actual end goal. If the goal was for people to be happy, and content, well then they would stop being good little consumers. Its not a conspiracy, or a direct goal - but rather the message that comes through when our whole lives are about attracting the younger, faster, hotter, richer of the drones out there. Love has been cheapened and sold to us as something disposable - a hobby. People don't fuck around simply because their biology dictates it. We are not nearly solely dictated by our biology. Theres the human spirit in general - that place where creativity, passion, intellect exists, and then theres the socialization that tends to want to crush that human spirit and have us conform to a mass of conspicuous consumers who turn even other human beings into commodities.

Now, if anyone can possibly even claim to know what all of human nature truly -"is"- given that there are these other influences, well thats something you'll never prove - not by a long shot. So speculate all you want, but don't forget all the exceptions to your short-sighted theories when you do.


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## Enkidu (Apr 19, 2010)

Promethea said:


> It amuses me when I see this, because the most comprehensive, thorough documentary I ever watched on the topic, on 'TLC' compared all of those -theories- (yes, only theories) to find contradictions. At the end of the documentary, the only conclusion was: "so it seems that some human beings are monogamous, others are not, and some are sometimes." And of course we have all known exceptions to this "fact" that human beings behave like monkeys in heat, never wanting to commit to one partner.


 Meant it as a statement; won't argue my point. This spirals into religious and philosophical opinions of 'human nature', godliness, humanism. Freud wasn't that off in this case, but you're right, humans are very complex social animals. 
I apologize if it detracted from the direction of the thread, just adding a viewpoint. This comparison tends to offend people educated on a liberal arts view of the human condition.


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## Stephen (Jan 17, 2011)

holloko said:


> This comparison tends to offend people educated on a liberal arts view of the human condition.


Excuse me, but what?


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## Sonne (Oct 29, 2010)

Bunker Man said:


> Because they see relationships as the end-all goal in life, and they realized they reached more or less the end of it's potential, but literally have nothing else in particular to live for. If they view a relationship as the end result goal in itself, rather than a beginning of new types of opportunity, then what? They already have it. Happiness comes from progress. If you aren't constantly making some in something, you'll get depressed.





Stephen said:


> Excuse me, but what?


Well said. I think this is the key. Relationships should be a means, not an end. The focus on "having" a relationship takes away from the goal or purpose of being in a relationship, how both persons will benefit or learn from it. Or how both can be better people as a result of being in a relationship with a particular, not just any someone. It's also an opportunity to learn about what you have to offer or give someone, and what it means to be loved or cared for by someone. I think treating relationships as simply a romantic exercise is damaging and destructive to long term communication. You may love each other completely and deeply without the fairytale and flutter of romantic love. Too much emphasis placed on passion or romance. Love, support, and committment are more important in the long term.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

Stephen said:


> Excuse me, but what?


Lolol. Yeah. I'll explain the tactic: 1. When your opponent completely obliterates your argument, ascribe an emotion to them that isn't there: "offended" for example. Then you can paint that person as emotional therefore irrational. 2. Make a lame assumption about the origin of the person's viewpoint, and malign it: "your darn hippy lib arts degree." (And yeah, I was a sociology major/psych minor - but that does nothing but _support_ my opinion. Lol.) Epic win tactic, clearly.


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## Enkidu (Apr 19, 2010)

Promethea said:


> Lolol. Yeah. I'll explain the tactic: 1. When your opponent completely obliterates your argument, ascribe an emotion to them that isn't there: "offended" for example. Then you can paint that person as emotional therefore irrational. 2. Make a lame assumption about the origin of the person's viewpoint, and malign it: "your darn hippy lib arts degree." (And yeah, I was a sociology major/psych minor - but that does nothing but _support_ my opinion. Lol.) Epic win tactic, clearly.


What? :frustrating: Bit immature, Promethea.
...and you wonder why I backed out before formulating an answer. I was censored by a gang before I was allowed to answer.
No, liberal arts is humanism, that's all I meant. No harm, no argument intended. Human nature has umpteen schools of thought, each with their own convictions and philosophy. The conflict among all of them is that they do not germinate ideas amongst themselves. (You illustrated this idea effectively enough.) Humans have brilliant cultures and unique, largely original views on the human condition latent in their worldviews. All I did was offer my opinion which I gathered from reading anthropology and behaviorism - another perspective.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

holloko said:


> What? :frustrating: Bit immature, Promethea.
> ...and you wonder why I backed out before formulating an answer. I was censored by a gang before I was allowed to answer.
> No, liberal arts is humanism, that's all I meant. No harm, no argument intended. Human nature has umpteen schools of thought, each with their own convictions and philosophy. The conflict among all of them is that they do not germinate ideas amongst themselves. (You illustrated this idea effectively enough.) Humans have brilliant cultures and unique, largely original views on the human condition latent in their worldviews. All I did was offer my opinion which I gathered from reading anthropology and behaviorism - another perspective.


Immature? Sarcastic and in jest, is more like it.

Providing evidence contrary to a posters opinion is _not_ "censoring." Theres no persecution here - just people sharing information. And sure, many people are going to disagree when someone asserts that human behavior is limited to the behavior of monkeys. Many find that argument absurd - especially when you are dealing with a community of more creative and cerebral types. Try a sarah palin rally and you might gain a following with that line of thinking.


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## butterflykiss (Mar 6, 2011)

As someone who was married and is no longer.. I think that the reason for the unhappiness stems from different things.. In some its the inability to communicate what they want for fear of ridicule, others its the mentality that they have to become someone else to make their spouse happy and thus give up part of their identities, and for others it is just plain boredom. People jump into marriage because they feel they have to. Its what they are supposed to do. When you date for many years, people tend to impose their feelings on you, ie. why havent you tied the knot yet? So, when are you finally going to make it legal? etc. After feeling that it was something I had to do, by my family, friends etc. I got married. I did the wife thing. I did everything i could to make everyone else happy and in the end it wasnt what either of us wanted and our relationship suffered because of it. We are now good friends and i hate that i have the word "divorced" attatched to my name, but going through the cheating and being depressed all the time wasnt good either. People are unhappy in marriage because they do it for the wrong reasons. If you choose to be married, you have to maintain your own identity and be willing to communicate and make known what your needs and wants are and be willing to listen to those of your spouse. It isnt all about you, you need to compromise, but at the same time know what your boundaries are and be comfortable enough to be able to stay true to who you are while allowing someone else in. Its difficult, Its work. A lot of work. but if its what you truly want then you should be able to do what needs to be done to make it work and have a healthy happy marriage.


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## kiwigrl (Apr 27, 2010)

Stephen said:


> Shit, I'll even allow that *some* people can do polyamory and not smash their relationship to pieces. In the process of research I interacted with people who seemed happy with it. At least one derided "serial monogamy" as far more irresponsible.


Well apart from the obvious for _me_ (it being morally wrong), how about the fact that I don't like to share? and I know he doesn't either. We're both quite possessive of each other.


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## Stephen (Jan 17, 2011)

kiwigrl said:


> Well apart from the obvious for _me_ (it being morally wrong), how about the fact that I don't like to share? and I know he doesn't either. We're both quite protective and jealous lovers.


While I can say that polyamory is definitely not right for me, I'm not going to stomp on those who find that it's right for their relationship, if it makes them happy. I just don't appreciate their rationalization that it's biologically proper or something. I will never share, and I will make sure I'm with someone who wants me and only me. I haven't experienced jealousy, but I end relationships when they stop being exclusive. I consider monogamy a rule of my relationships, and you know how sixes and ISTJs feel about rules.


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## kiwigrl (Apr 27, 2010)

Stephen said:


> While I can say that polyamory is definitely not right for me, I'm not going to stomp on those who find that it's right for their relationship, if it makes them happy. I just don't appreciate their rationalization that it's biologically proper or something. I will never share, and I will make sure I'm with someone who wants me and only me. I haven't experienced jealousy, but I end relationships when they stop being exclusive. I consider monogamy a rule of my relationships, and you know how sixes and ISTJs feel about rules.


Yeah I changed my wording after I typed it because he has never given me any reason to be jealous but if some wench came along wanting my husband, I'd be hunting her down and telling her where to go. 
And he was jealous once because of some stupid person gossiping & lying/blowing out of proportion my friendship with a guy I used to hang out with. I'm glad though that he loves/ values me enough to have been jealous, unlike a friend of mine who's husband didn't really care about her friendship which I found out later was rather inappropriate. They have now split.

My opinion about those who embark on that style of relationship... I don't think they would ever feel fulfilled/ content. At the end of the day I don't think it is really a relationship. It's a social existance, nothing more. Quite shallow and hollow imo. But they will never admit that because then they would have to change and they want to be like little kids and be given all of the toys, not having to make a choice and have only one toy to play with. I repeat... we live in a consumer society... It's all "me, me, me". I'm not buying into it.


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## Drewbie (Apr 28, 2010)

kiwigrl said:


> My opinion about those who embark on that style of relationship... I don't think they would ever feel fulfilled/ content. At the end of the day I don't think it is really a relationship. It's a social existance, nothing more. Quite shallow and hollow imo. But they will never admit that because then they would have to change and they want to be like little kids and be given all of the toys, not having to make a choice and have only one toy to play with. I repeat... we live in a consumer society... It's all "me, me, me". I'm not buying into it.


Poly relationships are not for everyone and can indeed be just as shallow as some monogamous relationships. Generalizing and dismissing all poly relationships as hollow however is extremely offensive and erases the life experiences of people who live fulfilled and happy lives as polyamorous partners. You don't have to participate or even understand it but it is not for you to say what is meaningful to someone else. That only further marginalizes and demonizes an already misunderstood and underrepresented subculture.


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## kiwigrl (Apr 27, 2010)

Yes Cruciferare but nevertheless I am still entitled to my opinion and that is my opinion (as I stated in my post). The last time I checked my opinion was still legally something I was allowed to express. I'm a "J" after all, I say it how I see it. We obviously disagree here, let's agree to disagree.


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## The Proof (Aug 5, 2009)

because they're not honest with each other and they handle mechanical things in ways that are not mechanical

for example, if the bread is gone and someone has to buy bread, one spouse may as well post it on a bulletin board in the house and someone will get it, or they could email each other

BUT NO! they have to talk about this menial stuff face to face, which is boring and it adds up over a period of time until they are bored silly


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## Stephen (Jan 17, 2011)

kiwigrl said:


> Yes Cruciferare but nevertheless I am still entitled to my opinion and that is my opinion (as I stated in my post). The last time I checked my opinion was still legally something I was allowed to express. I'm a "J" after all, I say it how I see it. We obviously disagree here, let's agree to disagree.


@%1;, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. While I won't pretend to be able to read @Cruciferae's mind, I imagine that she may feel that by expressing an opinion that polyamory is shallow and unfulfilling _for those involved_, you are insulting and dismissing those involved for something that does not harm you. I know I personally would have felt more comfortable with your opinion if it had been worded to say that you believe you would feel like a polyamorous relationship would be shallow and unfulfilling _for you_.

Once again, to be clear, polyamory is not for me. But I recognize that there are more ways to do things than my way.


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## Nina Rcose (Mar 6, 2011)

*Pic*







The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters.


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## Drewbie (Apr 28, 2010)

kiwigrl said:


> Yes Cruciferare but nevertheless I am still entitled to my opinion and that is my opinion (as I stated in my post). The last time I checked my opinion was still legally something I was allowed to express. I'm a "J" after all, I say it how I see it. We obviously disagree here, let's agree to disagree.


You are indeed entitled to your opinion but your opinion is not sacred and if you are going to express your opinion in a way that belittles the experience of other people simply because it does not align with _your opinion_ I am going to call bullshit.


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## Ti Dominant (Sep 25, 2010)

vivacissimamente said:


> This might sound crazy... but, I mean, realistically, when you think about it... marriage isn't natural. It isn't really natural for a person to WANT to be permanently bonded to someone, with no real option of getting out (without a lot of trouble). Society and cultural norms and history have made marriage something that seems totally normal, when in reality, only certain types of people and certain types of personalities are going to be naturally able to make marriage work. Everyone else is going to have to work at it. And if they don't, they will be unhappy, because it's not really human nature. *shrug*


Not only that, but it also seems that marriage used to be much more stringent in years past, so that perhaps more people now feel more and more able to simply express how they feel when they are in a relationship, whereas the traditional practice has usually been that a) you weren't always able to freely 'choose' your partner, which today seems much more acceptable, and b) you had to actually feel compelled to stay with the person you married, no matter what. I'd think those kinds of pressures would force anyone to suppress and hide their true feelings, putting on a complete show of contentment, when in reality they are very, very, very unhappy. So perhaps people have always been naturally unhappy in marriage (seeing as it is an unnatural practice, as you said), but it's just that we're now more open to avoiding the pretentiousness of it all.

Marriage does seem like a really odd suppression of basic instinct.


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## Ti Dominant (Sep 25, 2010)

Fizz said:


> Oh yeah, you're the epitome of _crazy_ :crazy: But seriously, you're completely right. It's a *social construct* that was partly created to guarantee the lineage of offspring so they (usually sons) could inherit what their father passed down (for patriarchal societies).


That's very precise.


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## Ti Dominant (Sep 25, 2010)

pukainthewall said:


> I also agree with you, couples just do it because its so normal, there is no thought about it. Some folks don't want to believe that there is a possibility they may fall out of love, get bored, etc. It is a security thing. I am generalizing here, because I know there are some marriages that are well. Please check out this article below.


Seems true enough, to me. People follow the ways of others, often—what's seen as 'conventional.' And it does seem like a giant security system to insure one's interests.


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## Ti Dominant (Sep 25, 2010)

Oleas said:


> I don't think marriage is the problem, I think the issue is people getting married when they shouldn't: too early, not compatible, etc. If you're bored after a few years of marriage it's definitely not gonna work. A real lifelong relationship should have many stages, it starts with passion and gradually evolves into unprecedented bonding, friendship. You see really old people that are still in love because they have fun, they share everything and they're each other's best friend. People tend to look for passion first, but no relationship's gonna last if it doesn't have strong roots. And strong roots are only achieved by a deep connection and understanding of the partner on a higher level.


Surely this is one explanation among many. But I think a better explanation is that not all people are cut out for marriage in the first place, even if they take the time to make things work. Some people seem to have this natural resilience, where they can remain faithful and loyal to one person without becoming extremely bored, so that their eyes aren't wandering. Other people seem less resilient by nature and just give in to feelings of boredom and discontentment, as perhaps they need more than one person every few years. For these people, marriage just isn't something for them. It's a social construct which merely forces them to suppress their natural tendencies and feel socially inadequate. 

My reason for favoring this explanation is that not all people who are unhappy either a) married too young, or b) necessarily married a completely incompatible person. Sometimes even a compatible person can eventually become boring and tiring. Not all people make long-term relationships work; some people constantly need new friends and companionship coming and going. That's human nature, and we're all different and diverse. And from this point of view, it's not just the people who are the problem; it's still an unnatural system which doesn't cater well to, and accommodate, all people.


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## Ti Dominant (Sep 25, 2010)

Aerorobyn said:


> As somebody else has already said, I don't necessarily think it's marriage - I think it's more-so the people in the marriage. A lot of people get married entirely too soon, as an expectation of society and a sense of security. They don't give their relationship enough time to fully develop, and instead rush into a "secure" and "forever" state or being before they have been able to experience anything beyond the initial 'passion' and 'lust' in the relationship. Maybe if people would wait longer, things would work out better - but that's not the case, and I have a feeling it never will be.


I'd love some support for this view. What general percent or portion of people who are unhappy can attribute this unhappiness to such imprudent and rash behavior? Are the majority of people who are unhappy in marriage really to blame this on their poor decision-making? Any sort of evidence would suffice: anecdotal, anything.


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## Ti Dominant (Sep 25, 2010)

kristle said:


> With our current society, we see one night stands and casual sex glorified along with independence (being single) and looking out for number one as most desirable. If someone gets married with these views it would be hard not to struggle.


I highly doubt all the marital problems people face can simply be explained away by saying, "It's society's fault." I'm sure there are much more deep and perplexing issues which ultimately render a marriage unsuitable beyond mere cultural changes, aspects of humanity which are much more timeless and universal.


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## Ti Dominant (Sep 25, 2010)

Eerie said:


> Because people don't want to accept that relationships are work. They aren't just a rush of hormones and hot sex, they are work. When people realize, they have to put effort into things, they usually just give up.


This is partially reasonable as an explanation, as again, not all people are resilient and cut out for this sort of 'work.' Some people may have other inclinations or limitations which prevent them from seeing a marriage through until completion. But I wouldn't say it's just people being 'lazy' or 'stupid.' I think all people are different and that it does no one any good to go around pointing fingers, labeling, and being generally judgmental about it all. There is no formula which says "marriage material = good, non-marriage material = bad." Some people like marriage; good for them. Some don't; good for them too.

And additionally, how can we be sure that the people who are unhappy are necessarily unhappy because they are of this temperamental type which doesn't understand that marriage is work, or is generally incapable of doing said work? In all reality, it may be that all types of people are unhappy—even those who _do_ understand that marriage is work and try hard. So your opinion here seems very troubling (as many others in this thread). It's more like a* scapegoat *than anything. A cheap, easy explanation to a problem based on the "obvious culprits." But I think this matter is much too complex to just explain away with such notions as "people are too reckless about marriage."


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## Ti Dominant (Sep 25, 2010)

vel said:


> There are too many reasons why couples are unhappy. Every marriage is unhappy in its own way. But then if you think about it - how many unhappy single people are out there? How many single people wish that they were in a loving stable long-term relationship and not spend the next winter holidays in a bar with strangers trying to hook up with somebody they barely know? How do you statistically measure their dissatisfaction? I mean for marriage there are divorce stasitics, but how do you measure dissatisfaction stemming from being single? And overall isn't unhappiness just a general human condition?


Yes. I do think there is a plethora of reasons to explain why various couples are unhappy and unsatisfied in their marriage, so that we can't really _single_ anything out as the root cause. People are different and much too complex to just say "it's society's fault" or "they are just too lazy and imprudent." And I would say that unhappiness is a general aspect of humanity which may be more universal and perhaps spans from one culture to another, from one era in history to another. To say it's society's fault that people are unhappy in marriage is to say that other eras in history should have been happier. But the reality is that people have probably been unhappy in marriage for many, many, many generations. It's just human nature.


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## Ti Dominant (Sep 25, 2010)

kiwigrl said:


> It's because we live in a consumer society. We want everything and we want it now. We want it to be handed to us on a silver platter and not have to work for it. Well sorry but that doesn't work with marriage. It is doomed from the start with that mentality.


Highly unsatisfactory explanation. Poor.


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## AussieChick (Dec 27, 2010)

SuPEReViL said:


> I'm starting to think monogamy is unnatural with infidelity and divorce rates as proof. It's fine for those who last their whole lives but they seem to be in the minority. (Not jaded at all, really)


 Yes i am proof of that,married men pretending to be single to get women for sex,because they don't get enough from their wives.It has happened to me three times now,and i'm sick of being given a bad name because of their lies.


Darth INTPhoebe said:


> *"why are so many people unhappy in marriage?" Because they are married!
> *


 Exactly!!!


CynicallyNaive said:


> Is it unrealistic for the hundreds of millions of people doing it?


 Yes if you want to sleep around don't get married or put it in writing that you can have an open relationship.


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## Neon Knight (Aug 11, 2010)

CynicallyNaive said:


> Is it unrealistic for the hundreds of millions of people doing it?


I said seems for a reason, because from my currrent perspective it does. I believe it is unrealistic to expect it to be that way based on my observations and experiences. I'm not an idealist in the same way you might be. I would like to find a way for everyone or at least as many as possible to be truly happy and marriage/monogamy doesn't cut it apparently.

I'm going to be nit-picky now. So you know hundreds of millions of people personally, how all of their relationships are going and that all those people are perfectly happy together? I sincerely doubt there are hundreds of millions of people who are with the one person their entire lives and that includes premarital sex. If neglecting that detail is what is confusing people, I apologize. 

And just because hundreds of millions of people are doing it doesn't make it right or logical .


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## Neon Knight (Aug 11, 2010)

Ozziechick1966 said:


> Yes i am proof of that,married men pretending to be single to get women for sex,because they don't get enough from their wives.It has happened to me three times now,and i'm sick of being given a bad name because of their lies.
> 
> Exactly!!!
> 
> Yes if you want to sleep around don't get married or put it in writing that you can have an open relationship.


All of that I agree with. Yeah I've been with someone married once before unknowingly, he just had a baby too it's sickening really and believe me I wasn't the only one he was with. The details of the situation that I can't get into make it even sicker. Other than staying single. open relationships seem like the best option, if you aren't the jealous type. I don't know if I could myself, though I would hope to be.


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## CynicallyNaive (Jan 18, 2011)

Ozziechick1966 said:


> Yes if you want to sleep around don't get married or put it in writing that you can have an open relationship.


I'm not sure what that has to do with the context of my remark (about marriage in general being unrealistic). Could you clarify?


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## AussieChick (Dec 27, 2010)

Well i don't know for sure,but i think that if you are going to get married and cheat without your spouses approval,then you shouldn't get married at all.This guy who just duped me said that it was the first time he has ever cheated on his wife.He said he only gets sex once every six weeks.I know another guy with the same problem,and although he has been tempted to cheat on his wife with me,he never has.Difference is he was totally honest with me,and told me he was married from the start.We joke around about having sex,but never have crossed that line.


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## Neon Knight (Aug 11, 2010)

Ozziechick1966 said:


> Well i don't know for sure,but i think that if you are going to get married and cheat without your spouses approval,then you shouldn't get married at all.
> 
> This guy who just duped me said that it was the first time he has ever cheated on his wife.He said he only gets sex once every six weeks.
> 
> I know another guy with the same problem,and although he has been tempted to cheat on his wife with me,he never has.Difference is he was totally honest with me,and told me he was married from the start.We joke around about having sex,but never have crossed that line.


Agree completely with don't get married if you're going to be like that. I may have left out that I do take that sort of commitment seriously but now I'm adding that because it's probably important in this discussion. That's probably one of the biggest reasons why I feel the way I do since I have come to that conclusion as well. 

They do that act well don't they? :angry: 

I'm usually looking for the bright side of things, but in this case I'd say, don't be surprised if he does try. Beyond that I can't say much lol.


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## hippiel0ve (Apr 11, 2011)

Not practicing real LOVE-basically God isnt the center of the marriage
Marrying with the fairytale outlook
SELF SEEKING-LOOKING TO PLEASE THEMSELVES
Bad communication.


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## Lauren Wolfe (Jun 23, 2011)

ChanceyRose said:


> Speaking for myself, my unhappiness in my marriage stemmed from me not feeling appreciated. I didn't have the confidence when I was younger to speak up so I allowed the problem to grow. Communication, early and honest, is the only way ANY long term relationship (platonic, sexual, or even professional) will be successful with all parties involved being happy.


"Communication". I might find that kinda tough being an INFP.


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## CynicallyNaive (Jan 18, 2011)

Lauren Wolfe said:


> "Communication". I might find that kinda tough being an INFP.


It might not come natural, but you can learn to communicate better with effort. If you want to be married, i would highly recommend it.


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## ficsci (May 4, 2011)

CynicallyNaive said:


> It might not come natural, but you can learn to communicate better with effort. If you want to be married, i would highly recommend it.


Or even better, only marry a special someone you *can* easily communicate about important things with. That kind of stuff is a sign right?

You know, honestly, sometimes I wonder why people get married these days. If a marriage doesn't last, is it perhaps because the foundation itself was kind of wrong? (Sometimes, I wonder if it is perhaps because the common mentality about power dynamics of opposite gender in our society itself is dysfunctional, and that's why relationships between any dominant-submissive pair, hetero or otherwise, often turn hurtful). I'm sorry if I sound naive, but my parents are still together and I don't personally know that many couples with failed or unhappy marriages.


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## PyrLove (Jun 6, 2010)

ficsci said:


> You know, honestly, sometimes I wonder why people get married these days. If a marriage doesn't last, is it perhaps because the foundation itself was kind of wrong? (Sometimes, I wonder if it is perhaps because the common mentality about power dynamics of opposite gender in our society itself is dysfunctional, and that's why relationships between any dominant-submissive pair, hetero or otherwise, often turn hurtful). I'm sorry if I sound naive, but my parents are still together and I don't personally know that many couples with failed or unhappy marriages.


I have wondered this myself. In the US there is a financial and legal benefit to marriage. You get a tax break for filing married-joint. Marriage is recognized as a legal contract so any accumulated property is divided according to law when (if) the marriage fails. Simply living together does not afford the same benefits.

I think it is beneficial to any children born of the union to have two parents who are financially, legally, and emotionally committed to raising the children together. Typically this means marriage.

Outside of the above reasons, I'm not sure marriage has a rational purpose. Even so, I think I would remarry for the sake of publicly declaring my commitment to someone else.


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## Ubuntu (Jun 17, 2011)

One possible explanation is 'forced' monogamy although some people are better suited for it than others, we should let go of the assumption that it's necessarily the best relationship style for all personality types. Another factor might be being around someone all the time and not having enough space.


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## redmanXNTP (May 17, 2011)

People are unhappy in marriage because:

- they and/or their partner aren't self-aware or honest with themselves about who they are or what they want, from themselves, their partner, their life; 

- they and/or their partner are closed off, emotionally immature and do not engage each other with openness about what they're thinking, feeling, needing, etc.;

- selfishness and unwillingness to be accountable; 

- they are unhappy people generally, and/or they are married to an unhappy person; 

- they or their spouse married before they were mature enough to understand what expectations they should realistically have about the other person and their marriage to them; 

- money problems; 

- (extended) family problems; 

- mental health problems in one or both spouses; 

- a controlling or manipulating spouse that limits the ability of the other person to grow; 

- infidelity.


That's off the top of my head, and many of those are overlapping to a degree with others, or might be looked as resulting from the others, and I'm sure I could come up with more though they'd likely be redundant. but there you are. 

The first three are IMHO the most fundamental and important.

BTW, a LOT of these come from personal experience...


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## Feeding A Mood (Jul 13, 2011)

I've never been married, but my guess is that one or both parties are unhappy with themselves, and sometimes they try to look for the other person to make them happy. Also, they don't realize what they are getting themselves into, and when they realize it's not what they thought it was going to be, batten down the hatches!  Love and friendship are natural, but Marriage (in the legal sense) is not. So although I'm not adverse to marriage, I do believe that it is important to be as aware as possible as to what your getting yourself into. Maybe we need some marriage workshops.  So that's my 2 cents on this thought provoking topic. It's good to know I'm in good company in my curiosity regarding this issue. Vive l'amour!


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## PhoebeJaspe (Apr 17, 2011)

Because they married the wrong person.


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## Arclight (Feb 10, 2010)

Disposable society.
Larger partner pools.
A popular media that paints unrealistic pictures of romance , love and relationships.
A popular media that celebrates exterior beauty as the standard to success and happiness.

And most importantly.. A society that teaches independence instead of interdependence and also, teaches that emotional vulnerability is a weakness.


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## Razare (Apr 21, 2009)

Could it be... they're with the wrong MBTI type? 

Not that being with the right type improves things much. 

People aren't wired for happy marriages any more... or maybe we never were, just we had sense enough to put on a facade of happiness in times past. Now with divorce being viable, no need to present the facade. Humans were never meant to romantically love each other... we just screw each other, have children and move on with our lives like any other animal on the planet.


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## roses4twin (Feb 20, 2010)

vivacissimamente said:


> This might sound crazy... but, I mean, realistically, when you think about it... marriage isn't natural. It isn't really natural for a person to WANT to be permanently bonded to someone, with no real option of getting out (without a lot of trouble). .


I highly disagree with this. I think marriage (i.e. monogamous marriages) is a social construct BUT wanting to be "permanently bonded to someone" isn't. It's written in our genes - search up "prairie voles vasopressin" or read this for the summary: BBC NEWS | Science/Nature | 'Fidelity gene' found in voles

*"After the V1a receptor gene was introduced, the former playboys reformed their ways. Suddenly, they fixated on one female, choosing to mate with only her - even when other females tried to tempt them."*

In short, in prairie and meadow voles, the length of the vasopressin receptor gene is directly related to whether the male meadow voles will mate with several female voles or a single one.

Who's not to say that our superior cognitive function or the complexity of other genes counteracts this one? Idk but what we do know now is that there is a biological factor to "wanting that permanent bond" with a mate and that it is not unnatural.



vivacissimamente said:


> Society and cultural norms and history have made marriage something that seems totally normal, when in reality, *only certain types of people and certain types of personalities are going to be naturally able to make marriage work. Everyone else is going to have to work at it.* And if they don't, they will be unhappy, because it's not really human nature. *shrug*


I also don't agree that marriage is for "certain* types* of people/personalities" - I think it's for certain relationships and values. *No marriage requires zero to little work.* That's just what people assume before they get into a marriage - "if I love this person enough, it should be ok". Wrong. "If it's meant to be, it's meant to be". Also wrong. They hear couples ending up in divorce thinking that's far from their future but before they know it, divorce comes a'knockin. They blame it on "I don't love this person anymore" or "We just went our separate ways" rather than "I didn't put enough effort into caring for the person the way I did when we first got married" or"The problems we didn't resolve before we got married, that I expected marriage would fix, came back to bite me in the arse."* Marriage isn't the problem or the solution.* The problem and solution lie in the person - _they are, and have never been, ready for a marriage. They won't be until they realize and fix this._

*Monogamy is natural - society just doesn't give us the tools to do it properly and efficiently. *Instead, what we've been told is that "If my parents couldn't make it work, I shouldn't even try" or "There's a near 50% divorce rate so marriage is a failed concept". Marriage isn't failed as so much their understanding of it is. Firstly - the "50% divorce rate" is the total # of divorces in a certain year over the total # of marriages in that said year. The rate is so high because divorces are more socially acceptable these days and the marriage rate is steadily declining. Secondly, *too many people let the doubt from other people's failures shape their own ideals.*

Thirdly, there are many cultures out there where marriages work because they married not for romantic love but to reproduce offspring and to have someone to support them. Of course I don't think arranged marriages are for everyone or that all these marriages are "healthy" but if they can make it work, it's testimony enough that marriages and the human race aren't all that "unnatural". *Marriage doesn't require romantic love, it requires commitment.* Ask my parents - they've been happily married for ~23 years with having no relationship experience before their semi-arranged marriage and every night they walk together hand in hand...sickening really :tongue:

I personally don't like marriage because people think it'll transform a relationship but I feel like it just forces people to be together. *"I've been married for 25 years" sounds very different than "I willing chose to be with this person for 25 years".* Maybe it's just me but I also feel that marriage time is different than relationship time: 5 years being married has a different ring than 5 years in a relationship. I hate hate HATE it when people say "Well you've been with this person for so long so why not...1) make it official, 2) take it to the next level, 3) start being serious with this person". Then people think..hey maybe we should 

When you're constantly reminded that marriages fail, you subconsciously seek an escape route and eventually someone will give up and be more than happy to take it.


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## CynicallyNaive (Jan 18, 2011)

Thanks for a really great post, roses4twin. I agreed with most of what you wrote until this point where i got a bit lost: 



roses4twin said:


> I personally don't like marriage because people think it'll transform a relationship but I feel like it just forces people to be together.


Am i understanding correctly? You don't like marriage, you just think humans are predisposed to it?



> *"I've been married for 25 years" sounds very different than "I willing chose to be with this person for 25 years".* Maybe it's just me but I also feel that marriage time is different than relationship time: 5 years being married has a different ring than 5 years in a relationship. I hate hate HATE it when people say "Well you've been with this person for so long so why not...1) make it official, 2) take it to the next level, 3) start being serious with this person". Then people think..hey maybe we should


So your point is, just "being with" someone for 5 years isn't the same as being 5 years into a lifetime commitment to them? I think i agree with this.But are you saying that it's wrong to use longevity of the relationship as a criterion on which to get married? I sorta also agree with this, but would like to better understand what you're saying.

In the end, if the individuals aren't interested in a life-long commitment, it doesn't matter whether they've been "together" for 15 years, it's not going to be a very good marriage. However, one would hope the longevity of the relationship would correlate somewhat highly (but not perfectly!) to the level of commitment.



> When you're constantly reminded that marriages fail, you subconsciously seek an escape route and eventually someone will give up and be more than happy to take it.


Yes! If bailing out is an option, it's an option you're going to be tempted to take.


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## roses4twin (Feb 20, 2010)

CynicallyNaive said:


> Am i understanding correctly? You don't like marriage, you just think humans are predisposed to it?


I think (most) human beings are biologically inclined to want that permanent bond with another person. Marriage is just the social and legal affirmation of these bonds. Some people think that marriage is this amazing experience that will complete the relationship but it's not. (Think the ending scene from the Graduation.) People change, relationships change, marriages change and if people aren't prepared to readily accept these changes for a lifetime's worth, they'll see that the marriage they once liked, they now want to get out of. The problem is that these same people marry for romantic love - but there's a huge difference between being in love with a person and loving a person.

I personally want to find someone to experience the rest of my life with (gives me the support and motivation to try things that I alone would have never had the courage to do) but I think a marriage would tarnish our relationship, even just a bit. If my SO and I love each other and work at our relationship, how is legalizing our relationship going to benefit us (aside from medical support, tax benefits, religious/cultural acceptance, higher chance for multiple adoptions)? It just defines and compares our relationship to the expectations of what a marriage entails. It sets boundaries and chains on what would otherwise be a beautiful connection between two willing individuals (ideally speaking).



CynicallyNaive said:


> So your point is, just "being with" someone for 5 years isn't the same as being 5 years into a lifetime commitment to them? I think i agree with this.But are you saying that it's wrong to use longevity of the relationship as a criterion on which to get married? I sorta also agree with this, but would like to better understand what you're saying.


It's more like "being with someone" for 5 years compared to not being with them vs. being married to them, *only* 5 years out of an eternity? I guess this has to do with our high expectations for marriages - "only 5 years? There are couples out there who've been married for 50!" Esp when you compare this to the low expectations for relationships - "wow! 5 years? you must really love her to stay with her that long!"

With certain exceptions (healthy marriages as one of them), I look highly upon LONG-term relationships more than I do marriages (when I mean long, I mean lifetime committed long). I feel that there's a certain level of love and trust between two people to willing stay together without having marriage to reaffirm their SO's love and loyalty to them and only them.

Honestly speaking, if a couple told me they're married I subconsciously question how much of the relationship was based on freewill versus societal and parental pressures/expectations, especially if they happen to do so at such an early age or stage in their relationship. Love isn't a given in a marriage and now a days many of those who marry do so to reap the social benefits of it.

I agree with you that longevity shouldn't be a factor for marriage.* Only compatibility and similar values (whether it be love, children, money, culture, reputation) should be a prerequisite for marriage. *How happy the marriage is ultimately up to the individuals and how much they feel their expectations were fulfilled. My parents married not for love (this came much later when their expectations for the marriage were met) but for security and children. If expectations change later on, that's not the marriage's fault but the individual's.


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