# Te and Close-minded Critical Thinking



## Grad0507 (Dec 12, 2013)

When I (a Ti-user) approach critical thinking as a topic of study, I am always told to keep an open mind. So why is it that self-proclaimed critical or objective thinkers (who I have found use Te) do not consider other people's views or get preached to in the choir? That seems to fly in the face of the #1 most important prerequisite for critical thinking. Do real critical thinkers not feel the need to vocalize that they are critical thinkers and only fake critical thinkers think it is necessary to let the world know that that's how they want to be seen, even if it makes them a hypocrite?


----------



## Moo Rice (Apr 9, 2018)

I think close-mindedness is probably more related to Pi then it is to Je


----------



## Rouskyrie (Jul 20, 2016)

Moo Rice said:


> I think close-mindedness is probably more related to Pi then it is to Je


I agree. Narrow perception often leads to narrow judgments.


----------



## 543452 (Mar 15, 2015)

I'll have to disagree with you on this one Moo Rice.

Te=Ji>Pi in terms of stubbornness. Pi only grants the subject their own unique view of a present tangible or intangible. This may make them stubborn in the long run, but this isn't what creates that stubbornness. In truth, what may create this stubborn nature would have to be either Te, Fi, or Ti. Te runs by the evident truths of the world. What information is undebatable and unequivocally reliable to apply. Users typically exhibit Te when they relate known information to others in order to find a general consensus. So, when somebody confronts a Te user who thinks that he/she knows her shit, things start to get interesting. Depending on the Fi of the Te user, the Te user's confided upon base of knowledge may get shakened and fragmented. This, is where you find Te becoming more and more closed minded. Ti judges the world through it's own slowly builded base of information. This base most likely being built off of the trial-and-error methodology. It would take on this method of learning to affirm it's belief that one can only understand anything through one's own journey in that certain thing. Ti doesn't seek the learned consensus, but only the consensus of it's own learned knowledge. Ti can get stubborn when it's relied upon base of knowledge gets called obsolete and worthless. Ti will then try to debate the timelessness of it's knowledge to no avail since the purpose and practicality of the said knowledge would matter just as much as the joyous search of it. Fi seeks for subjective-feeling gratification. Through whichever perception it uses, ideally, everything within that perception would make the Fi user feel balanced with itself. Fi searches life for it's own bliss and balance. Sadly, the saying "ignorance is bliss" might apply to Fi since anything painful might damage the Fi user's pathway to that inner balance. Therefore, Fi can get stubborn when any object external of itself impedes upon it's self-established values. Of course, these values are the makings of balance and peace for the Fi user and anything contrary would bring danger for the Fi user.


----------



## Valtire (Jan 1, 2014)

Moo Rice said:


> I think close-mindedness is probably more related to Pi then it is to Je


Explain? Why would a _perception_ function make someone closed-minded?


----------



## Moo Rice (Apr 9, 2018)

Pessimissing said:


> I'll have to disagree with you on this one Moo Rice.
> 
> Te=Ji>Pi in terms of stubbornness. Pi only grants the subject their own unique view of a present tangible or intangible. This may make them stubborn in the long run, but this isn't what creates that stubbornness. In truth, what may create this stubborn nature would have to be either Te, Fi, or Ti. Te runs by the evident truths of the world. What information is undebatable and unequivocally reliable to apply. Users typically exhibit Te when they relate known information to others in order to find a general consensus. So, when somebody confronts a Te user who thinks that he/she knows her shit, things start to get interesting. Depending on the Fi of the Te user, the Te user's confided upon base of knowledge may get shakened and fragmented. This, is where you find Te becoming more and more closed minded. Ti judges the world through it's own slowly builded base of information. This base most likely being built off of the trial-and-error methodology. It would take on this method of learning to affirm it's belief that one can only understand anything through one's own journey in that certain thing. Ti doesn't seek the learned consensus, but only the consensus of it's own learned knowledge. Ti can get stubborn when it's relied upon base of knowledge gets called obsolete and worthless. Ti will then try to debate the timelessness of it's knowledge to no avail since the purpose and practicality of the said knowledge would matter just as much as the joyous search of it. Fi seeks for subjective-feeling gratification. Through whichever perception it uses, ideally, everything within that perception would make the Fi user feel balanced with itself. Fi searches life for it's own bliss and balance. Sadly, the saying "ignorance is bliss" might apply to Fi since anything painful might damage the Fi user's pathway to that inner balance. Therefore, Fi can get stubborn when any object external of itself impedes upon it's self-established values. Of course, these values are the makings of balance and peace for the Fi user and anything contrary would bring danger for the Fi user.


We seem to disagree quite a lot, huh? (that's cool)

I consider all introverted functions to be permanent (Ji forms fixed judgements while Pi forms fixed perceptions) and all extroverted functions to be temporary (Je forms temporary judgements while Pe forms temporary perceptions).
You can get an ESTJ to change their judgements, but you won't get them to change their perceptions, you can get an INFP to change their perceptions, but won't get them to change their judgements. But I think we can both agree on Ne and Se being the two most "open-minded" functions, right?


----------



## Moo Rice (Apr 9, 2018)

Valtire said:


> Explain? Why would a _perception_ function make someone closed-minded?


Introverted perception is attached to the subject, meaning we don't let those perceptions go after forming them. (can say basically the same for Ji, just switch perception with judgement).


----------



## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

Moo Rice said:


> We seem to disagree quite a lot, huh? (that's cool)
> 
> I consider all introverted functions to be permanent (Ji forms fixed judgements while Pi forms fixed perceptions) and all extroverted functions to be temporary (Je forms temporary judgements while Pe forms temporary perceptions).
> You can get an ESTJ to change their judgements, but you won't get them to change their perceptions, you can get an INFP to change their perceptions, but won't get them to change their judgements. But I think we can both agree on Ne and Se being the two most "open-minded" functions, right?


Perception influences judgement and vice versa, you can't expect them to be truly permanent in reality, or we'd all be infants still. Whether or not they change depends on if the person is open to challenge themselves.


----------



## Handsome Dyke (Oct 4, 2012)

Moo Rice said:


> Introverted perception is attached to the subject, meaning we don't let those perceptions go after forming them. (can say basically the same for Ji, just switch perception with judgement).


This permanence aspect of functions is something I've never heard of before. It doesn't make sense to me because the way people view things can change—through new information, through maturation, even through new experiences that we associate with the perceived thing. 

And I don't see why extraverted perception couldn't be just as "permanent" given an environment that doesn't change much.


----------



## Moo Rice (Apr 9, 2018)

Red Panda said:


> Perception influences judgement and vice versa, you can't expect them to be truly permanent in reality, or we'd all be infants still. Whether or not they change depends on if the person is open to challenge themselves.


I have to agree.

That's why we need introverted and extroverted functions, to get balanced between openness and closeness. I actually believe introverted functions can "grow" or "mature" through the accumulation of different experiences and information.


----------



## Moo Rice (Apr 9, 2018)

Bonereaper Benty said:


> This permanence aspect of functions is something I've never heard of before. It doesn't make sense to me because the way people view things can change—through new information, through maturation, even through new experiences that we associate with the perceived thing.


I already said this on my reply to Red Panda, but I agree with this.



> And I don't see why extraverted perception couldn't be just as "permanent" given an environment that doesn't change much.


Well, I see extroverted functions as depending on the situation, and moving on after it is over.


----------



## 543452 (Mar 15, 2015)

Moo Rice, I still disagree, but I also agree with you if that makes sense. Se and Ne are temporary and open-minded to everything.

However, Je is very fixed, especially Te. Pi only paints the picture for Je and/or Ji if the Ji is strong and innate enough. Je and Ji can either healthily reinforce or stubbornize the Pi's perceptions. You will only get Te or Fe to change when they deem themselves as irrefutably wrong. Same thing with Ti and Fi really. This doesn't make them any less fixed since correction is self-made when it comes to these four functions. Otherwise, they'll be too stubborn to listen to external criticisms. Pi is malleable and pure in essence. Injections from Ji and Je make Pi seem stubborn and closed minded. This is probably what caused the whole "SJs are closed-minded and blind traditionalists" stereotype.


----------



## Moo Rice (Apr 9, 2018)

Pessimissing said:


> Moo Rice, I still disagree, but I also agree with you if that makes sense. Se and Ne are temporary and open-minded to everything.
> 
> However, Je is very fixed, especially Te. Pi only paints the picture for Je and/or Ji if the Ji is strong and innate enough. Je and Ji can either healthily reinforce or stubbornize the Pi's perceptions. You will only get Te or Fe to change when they deem themselves as irrefutably wrong. Same thing with Ti and Fi really. This doesn't make them any less fixed since correction is self-made when it comes to these four functions. Otherwise, they'll be too stubborn to listen to external criticisms. Pi is malleable and pure in essence. Injections from Ji and Je make Pi seem stubborn and closed minded. This is probably what caused the whole "SJs are closed-minded and blind traditionalists" stereotype.


What makes you say that Te is more fixed than Fe? I'm curious now.


----------



## Handsome Dyke (Oct 4, 2012)

Moo Rice said:


> I already said this on my reply to Red Panda, but I agree with this.


Ok I just read it and it seems to contradict what you said before. If functions can change, why do you say that people hold on to their perceptions? Can't a changing function produce new perceptions that replace the old perceptions?



> Well, I see extroverted functions as depending on the situation, and moving on after it is over.


But some situations aren't over for a very long time. Some hardly change at all during a person's lifetime, let alone end.


----------



## incision (May 23, 2010)

My impression of the close minded accusation, appears to come from individuals who wish others to see things their way. Hmm...


----------



## Moo Rice (Apr 9, 2018)

Bonereaper Benty said:


> Ok I just read it and it seems to contradict what you said before. If functions can change, why do you say that people hold on to their perceptions? Can't a changing function produce new perceptions that replace the old perceptions?


People also change with time, but (unless under extreme circumstances) those changes are gradual and stable. The second question reminded me of Theseus's paradox... 



> But some situations aren't over for a very long time. Some hardly change at all during a person's lifetime, let alone end.


I haven't thought much about this yet... Thank you


----------



## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

Moo Rice said:


> I think close-mindedness is probably more related to Pi then it is to Je


on the other hand, Ji can be so full of itself that nothing else matters, leading to confirmation bias

maybe that's Ji with Pi, though


----------



## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

Duo said:


> My impression of the close minded accusation, appears to come from individuals who wish others to see things their way. Hmm...


Some of the most controlling people are actually some of the most rejected people. They reject others by controlling them, thus denying anyone else the chance to reject them first, because they're afraid of being offended.


----------



## Persona Maiden (May 14, 2018)

I would view this from my own take on it, as lack of using the perceiving aux. I think any J dom would be pretty closed minded if they didn't use their aux to get another perspective.


----------



## 543452 (Mar 15, 2015)

Why is Te more fixed than Fe?

Well overall, Je and Ji are both fixed temperaments. But, if i had to rank all four of these functions for their fixed tendencies, it would go like this: Te=Fi>Ti>Fe. 

Nonetheless, Te is more fixed than Fe because of it's strict relentlessness when it comes to the adhering to the structural order of reality. Anything that keeps reality logically sound and defragmented is what Te will support. It will not support anything that promotes the flexibility of fact, like Ti. It finds that pointless. It will ultimately be fixed on what in the rulebook works in which situation. Fe doesn't judge based on the rulebook of reality. It judges based on ethics. Would it be ethical to experiment on human beings if such experiments would save humanity in the future? This question would bother the Fe. The Fe would immediately deem this action wrong because the action itself would harm many innocent beings. Fe seeks to ease pains and burdens through it's commodiously supportive nature. It's open for all, as long as the all will persist towards peace. Te wouldn't be so open-minded on this thought. To Te, the ones who are relevant for peace are the ones who deserve it's attention. Fe only analyzes that which disrupts the harmony. Everything else is acceptable for the Fe. Te looks at everything, but disregards everything that it deems as impertinent and chaotic to the order it tries to perpetuate. Te is neutral to everything else. Think of the open hand vs the professor.


----------

