# If you could deport all non-NT's / find a way to create an all-NT society, would you?



## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

Nope

1. I do not support genocide or population control. It would contradict every principle I have.

2. Who would entertain NT's or further more give them reasons to be cynic or unimpressed. 

3. It would be like being in a overly pretentious cafe where everyone is just way too cool. 

4. I like many NF's I have been able to have great friendships with many NF's because their intuition offers great conversation, and with their F they extend a purity in sympathy I always find very endearing. I have empathy but not much sympathy I am always rather in admiration of smart NF's. They can come off like sentimental hippies, but what I admire in them is they have conviction its a good mesh, with my having principle usually. I don't always agree with their idealism but they have truly great intention.


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## theredpanda (Jan 18, 2014)

Probably not honestly because I like being "special" too much lol


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## Strelok (Aug 16, 2013)

This thread should be re-made as "Would you prefer a society with no or much fewer SJs?"

They are really the only temperament that needs to be reduced.


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## SweetPickles (Mar 19, 2012)

This thread is amusingly stupid.


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## BrightWhiteHeart (Jun 12, 2013)

Awe, come on! You know you'd miss us ENFPs.))) Especially the ambivert-ENFPs. We tend to me a tad more chill.)))


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## SweetPickles (Mar 19, 2012)

I killed this thread roud: I love killing NT dreams!


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## Strelok (Aug 16, 2013)

I don't think you had anything to do with anything.


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## The_Oracle (Apr 7, 2014)

If we did that, I wouldn't have anyone to order around. - ENTJ
If we did that, I couldn't tell anyone they're stupid - INTJ
If we did that, I'd be so bored - ENTP
I'm actually working on a plan to achieve this -INTP


Personally, I find the other types entertaining. Kind of like going to the Zoo.


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## KittyKnits (Apr 21, 2014)

I would like a society of just me  I'm working on a plan to live like a hermit...it's a long term goal.


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## SweetPickles (Mar 19, 2012)

Joe907 said:


> If we did that, I wouldn't have anyone to order around. - ENTJ
> If we did that, I couldn't tell anyone they're stupid - INTJ
> If we did that, I'd be so bored - ENTP
> I'm actually working on a plan to achieve this -INTP
> ...


All types are fascinating; the NT part of the zoo is like going to the reptile part, it's kind of dry and boring, but you need relief from the weather outside. Thank goodness these creatures are separated from each other in here they are nasty.


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## SweetPickles (Mar 19, 2012)

KittyKnits said:


> I would like a society of just me  I'm working on a plan to live like a hermit...it's a long term goal.


I bet you could do this rather fast actually. I love when NTs use emoticons.


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## JustBob31459 (Apr 7, 2014)

Didn't Plato got a similar idea iirc?

hmm, maybe he was an INTP.


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## The_Oracle (Apr 7, 2014)

INT's are reptiles.

ENT's are warm blooded predators.

Be fair.


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## KittyKnits (Apr 21, 2014)

Thank you, I use them as sarcasm indicators to soften any potential insult. I have learned the hard way...


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## Sporadic Aura (Sep 13, 2009)

I'd like to visit an all NT society for like a month or 2, not more than that. Definitely not live there. I'd also like to visit a society where I'm the only NT for like a month or so.


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## SweetPickles (Mar 19, 2012)

Joe907 said:


> INT's are reptiles.
> 
> ENT's are warm blooded predators.
> 
> Be fair.




You are right that wasn't fair, INTPs green iguanas INTJs are not reptiles, but still cold so they are great white sharks ENTJs tigers ENTPs chimpanzees 

All are very intelligent predators. Honestly, if I had to pick the most savage killer it would be the chimp, they can be mean...but they are usually funny and playful so there you go ENTPs


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## Umiami (Apr 9, 2014)

A society of nts so a society full of hals from 2001 a space odyssey........ file that under "everyone else's gain"

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk


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## SweetPickles (Mar 19, 2012)

I bet if each Keirsey type had to make a society, the SJ's would most likely conquer us all. In this order NFs, NTs then SPs. Most likely the SP's would join allegiance with the SJs. Farewell intuitives! I think sensors are more cohesive and cooperative as a group than intuitives. NTs could also maneuver their way in with the SJs out of pure survival instinct then all is fucked.

I think NFs could live together peacefully if there was no one else, not sure what that would look like...wait no, there would be so much nasty emotional sabotage going on...feelings and drama.


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## Strelok (Aug 16, 2013)

MelanieM said:


> You are right that wasn't fair, INTPs green iguanas INTJs are not reptiles, but still cold so they are great white sharks ENTJs tigers ENTPs chimpanzees
> 
> All are very intelligent predators. Honestly, if I had to pick the most savage killer it would be the chimp, they can be mean...but they are usually funny and playful so there you go ENTPs


Why am I a shit-eating iguana?


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## SweetPickles (Mar 19, 2012)

Strelok said:


> Why am I a shit-eating iguana?


Which reptile would you prefer?


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## VIIZZY (Mar 22, 2014)

MelanieM said:


> Which reptile would you prefer?


I vote boa constrictors 'cause they're cute; I mean just look at this!

I also considered the Komodo Dragon....which looks cute in hats too so now I'm torn.


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## NIHM (Mar 24, 2014)

Oscuras said:


> As the question asks, would you desire to have an NT-only society? I personally see great merit in such a state (with a transhumanist-libertarian/minarchist constitution in my vision) - I see such a vision becoming reality with seasteading: The Seasteading Institute | Opening humanity's next frontier - and am working on doing such a thing (raising capital for it.)


*Inches away from you* I can think of a couple of words for people who try to make the perfect "society." Hydra, Hitler, the KKK, Saddam Hussein, Osama bin Laden... the list goes on. There is a reason why the perfect mate for someone might be the opposite of what they are. Our strengths match your weakness and vise verse. Thinking you have no weakness is the mark of the insane.

*Jots names down on who said yes to this for the permanent no list*

*Oscuras
Tzara
Odyssey
Strelok
feeg1
Scianto
*



Odyssey said:


> Defo, we could make communism work.


That's not communism. That's anti communism. It's Nationalism at it's worst called Fascism or Totalitarianism.

I lost a very close friend in 911, this thread makes my skin crawl.


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## SweetPickles (Mar 19, 2012)

VIIZZY said:


> I vote boa constrictors 'cause they're cute; I mean just look at this!
> 
> I also considered the Komodo Dragon....which looks cute in hats too so now I'm torn.


Komodo dragon = INTP

(And sounds really fierce since it's 1/2 dragon)


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## Jerzy Urban (Apr 6, 2013)

> That's not communism. That's anti communism. It's Nationalism at it's worst called Fascism or Totalitarianism.
> 
> I lost a very close friend in 911, this thread makes my skin crawl.


lol....


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## VIIZZY (Mar 22, 2014)

Odyssey said:


> lol....


No no; that wasn't a lol moment. :dry:


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## Jerzy Urban (Apr 6, 2013)

VIIZZY said:


> No no; that wasn't a lol moment. :dry:


Sorry.


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## NIHM (Mar 24, 2014)

VIIZZY said:


> No no; that wasn't a lol moment. :dry:


Thank you.


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## The Marauder (Apr 30, 2014)

Most certainly not, I like a little diversity. Besides, we need them to do all the stuff we don't want to have to do..whatever that stuff is, I don't know, I'm not an expert.


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## SweetPickles (Mar 19, 2012)

The Marauder said:


> Most certainly not, I like a little diversity. Besides, we need them to do all the stuff we don't want to have to do..whatever that stuff is, I don't know, I'm not an expert.


INFPs don't really do anything, and you NTs don't have the HEART to deport INFPs. 

(Or the guts)


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## Prismira Vex (Dec 26, 2013)

DualGnosis said:


> Well I'll try to be more realistic for the sake of it.
> 
> According to this: Frequency of Personality Types by Population & Gender
> 
> ...


I think gender roles would dissapear in a NT society in 1-2 generations, so assuming you you have as many males as females born, the ratio would end up 1:1 (If only NTs were born.)

Of course, I think a NT society would end up being transhumanist, and the death/birth cycle would stop in 30-40 years due to advanced biotech, and we wouldn't die


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## Prismira Vex (Dec 26, 2013)

[No message]


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## Prismira Vex (Dec 26, 2013)

NIHM said:


> *Inches away from you* I can think of a couple of words for people who try to make the perfect "society." Hydra, Hitler, the KKK, Saddam Hussein, Osama bin Laden... the list goes on. There is a reason why the perfect mate for someone might be the opposite of what they are. Our strengths match your weakness and vise verse. Thinking you have no weakness is the mark of the insane.
> 
> *Jots names down on who said yes to this for the permanent no list*
> 
> ...


First off, I'm sorry you lost a friend. That's the result of what happens when you leave crazy INFJ's (see the lack of the T?) unchecked; They get looney ideas and fly planes into buildings. A good argument for my case. As for my reply to you:

Hey, it's a F! And I'm even hurting your precious F-eelings, double score! Now I'm going to prove you wrong on all counts. First off, as a psychologist I can tell you the idea of someone opposite from you being perfect for you is a myth. It's a one of those urban legends that get repeated so often that people start to believe it's true. Here, some sources:

Opposites attract? Apparently not, according to study | Mail Online
https://shine.yahoo.com/5-reasons-why-opposites-dont-attract-173200744.html
Do Opposites Attract?
The Truth on Whether 'Opposites Attract' | LiveScience

" Thinking you have no weakness is the mark of the insane." *BZZT! Wrong!* - Where are the sources? Thinking you have no weakness is at worst the mark of someone who has narcisstic traits. Delusional people are "insane" - which falls under psychosis, not personality disorders. Also, nobody ever said they had no weaknesses. Obviously, you're so insecure that your "arrogance alert" goes off; It's insecure people who are sensitive to tone, but it adds no substance to any argument. It's what I call level-3 arguments: 









Also, I *Abhor* communism. I am a pure libertarian, a supporter of the Cato Institute, and a staunch proponent of private property and free enterprise. It's that bad that people sometimes say "Prismira, stop bitching about capitalism, we get it" to me. Please.

Also: Nationalism is based on an involuntary nation-state; My proposal is for a voluntarily chosen community outside the nation-state paradigm; It's *antinationalism* because it rejects any form of "state" except an anarcho-capitalist society based on private law.

Fascism = discrimination based on peoples heritage.
Racism = discrimination based on peoples skin colour.

Please, pick up a history book.

In closing, I have this to say: 

Clicky


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## SweetPickles (Mar 19, 2012)

I think Libertarians are silly. It's extremely short-sighted and I wish it would become a reality so I could laugh at all the former republicans...oops! I mean Libertarians!! This country would crumble so fast.

Oh "Atlas Shrugged", what a boring book from Hell, inspiring narcissism still to this day.

Libertarians are as delusional as communists

Xoxo


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## Strelok (Aug 16, 2013)

Oscuras said:


> *NTP's are inferior to *NTJ's though. If they weren't, you wouldn't be thinking about getting pregnant and rearing kids, but about your carreer and self-advancement


Allowing this kind of smug bullshit on the forum is an embarrassment.


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## SweetPickles (Mar 19, 2012)

Strelok said:


> Allowing this kind of smug bullshit on the forum is an embarrassment.


I have noticed some of your threads and you seem quite hostile? Maybe over sensitive? Would you be mad if I said INTPs were inferior to INFPs? Hmm..probably not  Don't take what people say on here so seriously...especially from someone who wants to create their own NT habitat because they feel themselves superior period. Of course he may be saying over dramatic things to get a response. There will always be people like this.


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## Strelok (Aug 16, 2013)

MelanieM said:


> I have noticed some of your threads and you seem quite hostile? Maybe over sensitive? Would you be mad if I said INTPs were inferior to INFPs? Hmm..probably not  Don't take what people say on here so seriously...especially from someone who wants to create their own NT habitat because they feel themselves superior period. Of course he may be saying over dramatic things to get a response. There will always be people like this.


I'm just tired of encountering the xxTJ superiority complex in every thread on every board and IRL as well.


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## SweetPickles (Mar 19, 2012)

Strelok said:


> I'm just tired of encountering the xxTJ superiority complex in every thread on every board and IRL as well.


So are a lot of others, get to know them better and you can see why. That has always helped me. It's usually not as simple as having super strong Ni-Te or Te-Ni.


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## Prismira Vex (Dec 26, 2013)

Yeah, we're delusional. That's why Hong Kong, Singapore and Dubai have such shitty economies! Man, those places are crumbling in freefall. Oh, wait...:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

To the appeals of "arrogance" and "Narcissism" I'm not going to reply with anything but this: 
View attachment 115650


Xoxo, Prismira Vex~


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## SweetPickles (Mar 19, 2012)

Oscuras said:


> Yeah, we're delusional. That's why Hong Kong, Singapore and Dubai have such shitty economies! Man, those places are crumbling in freefall. Oh, wait...:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:
> 
> To the appeals of "arrogance" and "Narcissism" I'm not going to reply with anything but this:
> View attachment 115650
> ...


Thank you for your triangle hierarchy of bullshit, and good luck with everything doll face 

(Your tumblr image didn't have a title so I made one for you)


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## Prismira Vex (Dec 26, 2013)

Now we're back on level one! It *may* be a very bad ad hominem. Alright, I'll give you a 2. I'm in a good mood.

Xoxo


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## sceptical mystic (Mar 6, 2014)

Interesting notion. 

But can we at least swap some of the ENTJs with INFJ specimens to balance things out a bit and to cater to our needs for intimacy and a mate?

We may be rationals, but that doesn't mean we don't want to have a cuddle-mate for cuddling. :blushed:


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## Prismira Vex (Dec 26, 2013)

I'm an ENTJ. I am cuddlier than my INTJ partner :O


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## DualGnosis (Apr 6, 2013)

Oscuras said:


> I think gender roles would dissapear in a NT society in 1-2 generations, so assuming you you have as many males as females born, the ratio would end up 1:1 (If only NTs were born.)
> 
> Of course, I think a NT society would end up being transhumanist, and the death/birth cycle would stop in 30-40 years due to advanced biotech, and we wouldn't die


Gender roles is not the same as the biological capabilities to reproduce(we can have as many non-traditional couples as we want but it is still a male/female collaborative process to make babies) and I was trying to look at this situation realistically based on current situations and technology, thus I came up with the ratio of 2.5:1; you can go ahead and assume a 1:1 ratio will occur but I am counting on my source instead.


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## Prismira Vex (Dec 26, 2013)

I don't think making babies is very rational for an individual, I think we'd more look towards stopping aging through advanced biotechnology  like SENS is doing. SENS Research Foundation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## DualGnosis (Apr 6, 2013)

Oscuras said:


> I don't think making babies is very rational for an individual, I think we'd more look towards stopping aging through advanced biotechnology  like SENS is doing. SENS Research Foundation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


I think its a good thing to advance technology towards a non-aging society, but I'm inclined to disagree on your statement that reproducing isn't very rational when in fact it is the sole reason that the human species as well as other vertebrates have continued to flourish on this earth for a pretty long time. Again I was basing it on current technology and situations, so in order for out NT society to exist for more than one generation we obviously need to have babies or at least have immigration policies.


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## moltobene (Feb 16, 2014)

I will smuggle in a lot of NFs and you will not be even mad.

Also, EMs are a broken concept so no uploading minds to computers even if technically feasible. Every available computer for that purpose will be used for true advanced AIs. That raises the point of why would they keep organics around to begin with.

Age reversal will not make up for accidental deaths so you still need new babies if you want to keep organics around. Even if manufactured rather than born from a --possibly female-- human.

I can quickly derail this thread into a nihilist and existentialist dystopia if I want to, so I warn you: let the NFs in or ELSE.


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## SweetPickles (Mar 19, 2012)

I don't think NF's will want to come. We will gather our forces with the SJs and SPs...then demolish you all.

No hard feelings?


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## moltobene (Feb 16, 2014)

Fine, I will take my strong AI and my high tech toys and colonize some other galaxy. You can all keep your petty fights.

I will also take some kittens if you do not mind.


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## CorrosiveThoughts (Dec 2, 2013)

moltobene said:


> Fine, I will take my strong AI and my high tech toys and colonize some other galaxy. You can all keep your petty fights.
> 
> I will also take some kittens if you do not mind.


Shall I draw up the plans for the Bussard Ramjets and interstellar spacecraft? Together, the entire galaxy will be under INTP control.


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## moltobene (Feb 16, 2014)

There is a reason humanism evolved instead of advanced life being a cesspool of psychopatic winner take all bastardized taylorism, greed and human instrumentalization as tools.

Anyone who believes the world is already that way deserves to live under anarchism and its unavoidable eternal tyranny of mafias. Blood soaked Mexico does not look good, does it?


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## sceptical mystic (Mar 6, 2014)

Oscuras said:


> I'm an ENTJ. I am cuddlier than my INTJ partner :O



Then you can stay. roud: 

It's the grumpy, un-cuddly, bossy, frigid ENTJs I've had enough of.


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## monemi (Jun 24, 2013)

Oscuras said:


> Yeah, we're delusional. That's why Hong Kong, Singapore and Dubai have such shitty economies! Man, those places are crumbling in freefall. Oh, wait...:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:
> 
> To the appeals of "arrogance" and "Narcissism" I'm not going to reply with anything but this:
> View attachment 115650
> ...


Dubai uses slave labour and has an incredibly abusive system toward their workers. Risky for foreign workers if you leave enclaves. 
Singapore has extreme punishments, uniformity, sky rocketing cost of living and wages not keeping step. 
Hong Kong, I don't know anyone currently living or working there. 

I question how much you actually know about these places. Have you even visited them or known anyone who has lived there?


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## monemi (Jun 24, 2013)

MelanieM said:


> I don't think NF's will want to come. We will gather our forces with the SJs and SPs...then demolish you all.
> 
> No hard feelings?


Nah, we'd just have a party without them. SJ's will resist but half the fun for SP's is convincing them to have a good time.


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## SweetPickles (Mar 19, 2012)

monemi said:


> Nah, we'd just have a party without them. SJ's will resist but half the fun for SP's is convincing them to have a good time.


We would party but we could also attack them for fun, we would completely dominate them. The nice ones can be spared...I guess.


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## SweetPickles (Mar 19, 2012)

Double post


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## moltobene (Feb 16, 2014)

MelanieM said:


> We would party but we could also attack them for fun, we would completely dominate them. The nice ones can be spared...I guess.


Dominate NTs? You would never hit a guy with glasses would you?


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## Prismira Vex (Dec 26, 2013)

[No message]


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## Prismira Vex (Dec 26, 2013)

Yes it does, for the winners at the top. I'm don't want an average life. I want to win! Everything or nothing!


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## SweetPickles (Mar 19, 2012)

moltobene said:


> Dominate NTs? You would never hit a guy with glasses would you?


Not an INTP, I wouldn't! Well most...


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## SweetPickles (Mar 19, 2012)

Oscuras said:


> Yes it does, for the winners at the top. I'm don't want an average life. I want to win! Everything or nothing!


You will be the first to die  sowwy

BTW nice social skills...



> Obviously I have. Abusive system? We call that free market mechanism. If you aren't educated, you will be treated like shit. People aren't equal, even though your socialist dystopia may have indoctrinated you otherwise. But you are right; Libertarianism/classical liberalism is a philosophy for winners, not for everyone.
> 
> I'm not a "worker" so I'm not too concerned with the well-being of someone who didn't make it past high school and now has to scrub toilets 18 hours a day to support his kids. (Which maybe you shouldn't have had in the first place if you're poor and stupid, chump change.)


Actually you will be spared and made to clean all our toilets.


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## Prismira Vex (Dec 26, 2013)

Go read some more Salon and pretend you're educated.


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## moltobene (Feb 16, 2014)

Says the uneducated fool. Ever figured out the difference between learning and blindly memorizing others?


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## SouthernSaxon (Feb 21, 2014)

Why would anyone want to do that?

Even if it somehow possible to accurately identify all non NTs and then deport them (meaning you'd have to tear apart a lot of families), this all-NT society would be far from utopia because there would be no-one left to preform the roles in society that the other types naturally gravitate towards. It would be unsustainable.


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## Prismira Vex (Dec 26, 2013)

moltobene said:


> Says the uneducated fool. Ever figured out the difference between learning and blindly memorizing others?


Uneducated fool? I have studied psychology, and am studying AI sciences now. I have a very wide range of skills and abilities which I learned myself. Or have we came at the point where everyone who isn't a leftie is being called an idiot? Well, here's a newsflash: I'm not a gun-obsessed, gay-bashing, highly religious, culturally conservative republician Hick, sorry to break it to you. 

See, there are smart people on the right side of politics. Have you ever considered that?


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## moltobene (Feb 16, 2014)

Oscuras said:


> Uneducated fool? I have studied psychology, and am studying AI sciences now. I have a very wide range of skills and abilities which I learned myself. Or have we came at the point where everyone who isn't a leftie is being called an idiot? Well, here's a newsflash: I'm not a gun-obsessed, gay-bashing, highly religious, culturally conservative republician Hick, sorry to break it to you.
> 
> See, there are smart people on the right side of politics. Have you ever considered that?


You keep assuming things about me instead of actually reading and thinking. But hey, at least you are now offering some minor reasons instead of gratuitous dismissivity.

Feel free to ask anything you want about AI I can certainly discuss a thing or two as I am well versed on fundamental principles in AI. The INTP forum is over there and they are all interested in non bullshit discussion.

Also, I stand by what I said about uneducated: MEMORIZATION is not understanding. Name-dropping and rehashing other people's ideas is the hallmark of xxTJs, let's see if you can back your assertions by reasoning about them instead of gratituously quoting others. If you have UNDERSTOOD their works you can certainly defend their ideas with arguments, don't you?


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## Belzy (Aug 12, 2013)

Wow, NTs really show they (NTJs and NTPs) are a perfect match for creating a very own society...


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## ALongTime (Apr 19, 2014)

Oscuras said:


> Eh, no. I don't have children. Me and my partner are sterilised. Oh and! I don't think there's such a thing as "Basic human dignitiy" - you do not "deserve respect" by the basic virtue of being pooped out by a woman. You deserve respect only by your virtues. And abilities.


So everyone joining this society has to be sterilised? I'm not sure you'll have many takers.

So you're the judge of people's virtues and abilities? If you're judging it based on success then, well, no that doesn't work. One that not everyone comes from the same starting point (some have more opportunities and privileges than others), and two that people are far too multidimensional to judge based on success alone.


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## SouthernSaxon (Feb 21, 2014)

AAADD said:


> I actually hope it does, but I know it's impossible with how we as humans are.


Communism is an inefficient way to govern a country, it leads to economic stagnation because people have no motivation towards excellence. The government tends to murder charismatic individuals. 

You want to support a political system that can last a thousand years. That clearly rules out communism, and our current system, mass democracy, as well. I don't claim to have all the answers, I can only say that we are collectively blindly walking like a lamb to the butcher towards the end of our power and existence, and change is required to survive.


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## Belzy (Aug 12, 2013)

SouthernSaxon said:


> Communism is an inefficient way to govern a country, it leads to economic stagnation because people have no motivation towards excellence. The government tends to murder charismatic individuals.
> 
> You want to support a political system that can last a thousand years. That clearly rules out communism, and our current system, mass democracy, as well.


I am motivated just with the thought that I help other people by doing my tasks/job properly. The idea we people drive to excellence is what I dislike. The more people want, the more they get, and thus the less others will receive. I find that a sad and unfair world, in which I live. Maybe a society of dominant Fe's could work with communism, but clearly not one with NTs.


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## moltobene (Feb 16, 2014)

AAADD said:


> Wow, NTs really show they (NTJs and NTPs) are a perfect match for creating a very own society...


I treat people the way they like to be treated meaning different people get different treatment.

ENTJs appreciate the bluntness and are not afraid of head butting. I apreciate that even if I do not agree.

I would never treat an NF the same way and I really prefer comunication that allows everyone to grow. Read some of my post history if you are interested (skip the math posts )


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## SouthernSaxon (Feb 21, 2014)

AAADD said:


> I am motivated just with the thought that I help other people by doing my tasks/job properly. The idea we people drive to excellence is what I dislike. The more people want, the more they get, and thus the less others will receive. I find that a sad and unfair world, in which I live. Maybe a society of dominant Fe's could work with communism, but clearly not one with NTs.


Well, isn't that enough motivation in itself, that you've made a positive difference to someone out there? Changing a political system is an incredibly radical action, you have to be able to think objectively about the long term consequences. 

Driving for excellence is important, because success increases self esteem (and vice versa). Imagine if no matter how hard you worked, you got rewarded just as much as the person who didn't as little as he could get away with. Sounds unfair, doesn't it? Well, that is how communist societies operate. Everyone is equal, so there is no motivation to try harder than anyone else, which reduces efficiency a _lot_.

The world is fundamentally unequal because people are born with varying degrees of potential depending on their genetics as well as their life circumstances. So even if you had no classes and races (communist wet dream), the world would _still_ not be equal.


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## Belzy (Aug 12, 2013)

SouthernSaxon said:


> Well, isn't that enough motivation in itself, that you've made a positive difference to someone out there? Changing a political system is an incredibly radical action, you have to be able to think objectively about the long term consequences.
> 
> Driving for excellence is important, because success increases self esteem (and vice versa). Imagine if no matter how hard you worked, you got rewarded just as much as the person who didn't as little as he could get away with. Sounds unfair, doesn't it? Well, that is how communist societies operate. Everyone is equal, so there is no motivation to try harder than anyone else, which reduces efficiency a _lot_.
> 
> The world is fundamentally unequal because people are born with varying degrees of potential depending on their genetics as well as their life circumstances. So even if you had no classes and races (communist wet dream), the world would _still_ not be equal.


I already said that I don't believe communism is possible with how we as humans are. If we as humans would all do our tasks properly without the need of getting more than the other, then that'd be great. Obviously not going to happen. I would, but the majority wouldn't.

The world we live in now is unfair. Only world that could be fair is with communism, but then people need to get rid of their greed and such, and just want to help their community more than anything else, seeing that as reward. We are a sorry lot for not thinking like that, in my opinion.


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## monemi (Jun 24, 2013)

AAADD said:


> I already said that I don't believe communism is possible with how we as humans are. If we as humans would all do our tasks properly without the need of getting more than the other, then that'd be great. Obviously not going to happen. I would, but the majority wouldn't.
> 
> The world we live in now is unfair. Only world that could be fair is with communism, but then people need to get rid of their greed and such, and just want to help their communicaty more than anything else, seeing that as reward. We are a sorry lot for not thinking like that, in my opinion.


Yeah, communism wouldn't work for me. I'm competitive. I believe in a reasonable bottom rung and treating people with basic dignity. I don't mind limited socialism. I don't mind if uncompetitive people aren't interested in climbing the ladder. I can share. But my hard work must amount to something for me and my family. There's no way I'd play by the rules in the a communist society. That's just an opportunity to grease the wheels. 

I'm not interested in a fair world. It's never going to be fair. That is an impossibility. I am interested in a world that that doesn't mistreat the poor and has a decent social safety net. I've never had to use it, but it should be there. 'No man is an island.'


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## moltobene (Feb 16, 2014)

Comunism is unfair to those who put extra effort and pull more than their fair share of their weight. 

You could theoretically "force" them to be mediocre but then you would be alienating their basic identity as they are paying high costs to be able to pull ahead yet not being allowed to use those abilities and acomplish their desires.

This all changes with Strong Ai and its unavoidable mass automation. The moment machines are advanced enough to do anything a human can is the moment you could make a case for shared industrial property. No amount of human talent would make a difference then from a growth and resource sharing perspective. Machines would think faster, better, be more knowledgeable and more adaptable.

The point is moot though, becouse power struggles would happen anyway by virtue of human nature. A non-trivial amount of people is born with the innate desire to exert power over others, other people is born with the innate desire to have access to priviledge, and so on.


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## Belzy (Aug 12, 2013)

moltobene said:


> Comunism is unfair to those who put extra effort and pull more than their fair share of their weight.


It isn't unfair per say, but it feels that way because of people's greed.

Not everyone is capable of working as hard as the next guy. As long as everyone tries his or her best, it would only be fair if we all get treated equally, unless the people themselves decide to give someone a little extra, rather than a system that gives some people a zillion more than others; now _that_ is unfair.


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## Prismira Vex (Dec 26, 2013)

Boo hoo. Life isn't fair. Now excel or die, please.

@ 
moltobene, sure, what do you want to debate about AI, and what ideas do you want me to defend? Hit me up.


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## Jerzy Urban (Apr 6, 2013)

AAADD said:


> Really? A society without dominant Fe's is one where communism could work?


Yes really. We could explain to all the Fi's that if we all care for each other and work together we could make great things work. Its far more efficient. 

Fi's can also be great team players you know.


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## Belzy (Aug 12, 2013)

Oscuras said:


> Boo hoo. Life isn't fair. Now excel or die, please.


Typical.


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## Prismira Vex (Dec 26, 2013)

AAADD said:


> Typical.


For what?


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## Belzy (Aug 12, 2013)

Oscuras said:


> For what?


I enjoy this.


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