# Your thoughts on Weed/Marijuana? - Any of the types have something against it?



## Antiloop (Feb 10, 2014)

B3LIAL said:


> I really didn't expect to have so many responses. If you don't like or wouldn't smoke it, then fine, but why am I surprised at the amount of retards saying "it's bad mmmkay"? and not applying any real arguments forward for your point of view?
> 
> Look at the fucking evidence, it's not as toxic as alcohol and cigarettes. FACT!


I am genuinly interested, could you show some sources. I've read a lot about this in my time, and there's no real clear conclusion. Some studies show that alcohol is more dangerous, some that weed and cigarettes are more dangerous. The only thing they appear to agree on is that alcohol is more immediately dangerous, and weed/cigs are more dangerous in the long run.


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## intp_gurl (Mar 8, 2014)

Yeah in the south you get a free room.....actually tax paid room in prision

people go in prision, come out with record, no treatmennt, just a record. How does that help the person, or society?


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## Eckis (Feb 7, 2013)

intp_gurl said:


> Yeah in the south you get a free room.....actually tax paid room in prision
> 
> people go in prision, come out with record, no treatmennt, just a record. How does that help the person, or society?


The point of prison is punishment for breaking the law.


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## FearAndTrembling (Jun 5, 2013)

Antiloop said:


> I am genuinly interested, could you show some sources. I've read a lot about this in my time, and there's no real clear conclusion. Some studies show that alcohol is more dangerous, some that weed and cigarettes are more dangerous. The only thing they appear to agree on is that alcohol is more immediately dangerous, and weed/cigs are more dangerous in the long run.


I think it is obvious that alcohol is a greater behavior modifier, and for the negative. A person "on alcohol" is more dangerous than a person who is high. Or more likely to be violent. I don't know if a study has been done on such a thing, but..

Something like half of all sexual assaults involve alcohol. Other violent crimes have similar statistics.


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## cremefraiche (Jul 9, 2014)

My thing is, people shouldn't be blinded by weed thinking that it's completely harmless. Yes, it's safer than alcohol and other drugs. No, it's not that bad of a thing to do. In fact, I've never been in a situation where I was endangered by a smoker.

But that doesn't mean there are no consequences. There are consequences for even the most seemly inconsequential thing, even done in moderation. They may be slow-progressing, but progressing nonetheless. It's something I am researching, so I can hold up in debates with people who argue that nothing bad can ever happen from it. I recognize the good in it, I recognize how beneficial it is for those who are physically or mentally very ill, and I recognize it as something that is OK to do recreationally. I get it.

But I recognize so many naturalistic fallacies in the arguments I find myself in that it gets frustrating.


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## cremefraiche (Jul 9, 2014)

B3LIAL said:


> If you don't like or wouldn't smoke it, then fine, but why am I surprised at the amount of retards saying "it's bad mmmkay"? and not applying any real arguments forward for your point of view?


That argument they have made may be baseless and invalid but it doesn't warrant them being called a retard. That's just mean.

Though I do appreciate your South Park reference.


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## Antiloop (Feb 10, 2014)

FearAndTrembling said:


> I think it is obvious that alcohol is a greater behavior modifier, and for the negative. A person "on alcohol" is more dangerous than a person who is high. Or more likely to be violent. I don't know if a study has been done on such a thing, but..
> 
> Something like half of all sexual assaults involve alcohol. Other violent crimes have similar statistics.


That is easily explained by alcohol being more readily available!!! I don't think you're trying to fool me, but I would really like something more scientific.


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## BlackDog (Jan 6, 2012)

chimeric said:


> It really is a powerful painkiller. Some years back, I had inflamed skin on the back of my foot and couldn't sleep without it certain nights. OTC painkillers (aspirin, etc) didn't cut it.


It is excellent for pain management. I was on a cocktail of drugs for months and months and some of them made me unable to function (way higher than marijuana ever made me), some of them were known to cause liver damage long term, and some of them gave me stomach bleeding and I had to stop taking them. Marijuana was by far the lesser of the evils, even if I had to smoke it more than I would really have liked. 

And anybody who says I shouldn't have been taking anything, I say - go dislocate both your hips and fracture your spine and get back to me.


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## Doc Dangerstein (Mar 8, 2013)

cremefraiche said:


> He tried to argue with me that weed is a good way to take care of all your painful physical/emotional experiences. Do you have something that takes care of all of your worries and physical ailments all at once? Or would you rather take a bunch of different pills for that?


... again, his argument is stems from an ignorance of what marijuana is. Much of the marijuana subculture believes smoking to be the balm for all sorrows. There are medicinal values to smoking; I have a friend who smokes it to ease the pain of her fibrosis but at the same time she doesn't assign it any extraneous benefits that are not this. Your friend is really making an argument for escapism ... I've heard similar arguments for drinking, religion, sex and other ideologies. If we were to study the history of medicine and medical practices we would uncover a history of miracle drugs and wonder ointments which may even have some medicinal value. However, their value was greatly exaggerated dues to commercial and cultural pressures. Simply put; most dealers like this myth because it is profitable to their enterprise and they want to make bank.

... as much as I like to have a good smoke now and then I find the culture quite unbearable. It's quite nice to see a few voices of reason in this thread. Everything said, many doctors in my city were prescribing oxycondone, percocet and other opium derivatives for all sorts of pain. My city has developed a substantial addiction problem to both opiates and amphetamines which necessitated two methadone clinics and numerous addiction centres in a city of under 400,000. If I break a bone or worse I would like to have the choice to smoke marijuana instead. I'm neither for or against its recreational use but I am for making an informed decision and I am for the understanding of how all drugs work. Personally I do not want to build up an a tolerance to a substance that might later prove itself useful. That said I do enjoy having an occasional smoke and going for a walk. Or reading.


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## JTHearts (Aug 6, 2013)

B3LIAL said:


> Are you trolling? Alcohol is a drug, and Cigarettes contain a drug!


No I'm just really bad at making my point without giving it a lot of thought which I really don't want to do right now. I could bring up statistics on the DEA website if you want to prove it's bad.


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## BlackDog (Jan 6, 2012)

Miya said:


> Yes, all of them (even the excessive consumption of caffeine). I would very much like to sound all tolerant and accepting, but too many lives were irrevocably damaged by each of those drugs. I do feel compassion for those who try to numb their pain or drown their very real sorrows in clouding their mind, but ultimately it is no long-term solution. The problem ain't gonna fix itself while you sit there, unaffected for one fleeting moment (until the next time). It's painful just to think of the innumerable broken lives of everyone involved, including family and friends. So I don't think it's worth my support in any way.


I don't think it's fair to act as though everyone who uses caffeine, alcohol, marijuana, or prescription drugs is destroying their life and causing pain to those around them. Not everyone who uses the above is abusing it or using it in excess, any more than someone eating a McDonalds hamburger is necessarily obese and unhealthy.


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## FearAndTrembling (Jun 5, 2013)

Antiloop said:


> That is easily explained by alcohol being more readily available!!! I don't think you're trying to fool me, but I would really like something more scientific.


It isn't though. Just because something is illegal, doesn't mean it isn't used a lot. 

I think you're the one being dishonest.



> The U.S. Department of Justice Report on Alcohol and Crime found that alcohol abuse was a factor in 40 percent of violent crimes committed in the U.S.





> Among those victims who provided information about the offender's use of alcohol, about 35 percent of the victimizations involved an offender who had been drinking


The numbers are similar in rape, simple assault, murder, etc. and in many different countries. 



> They concluded, “These findings are consistent with prior research … which suggests that heavy alcohol use, and particularly the acute intoxicating effects of alcohol, may increase the odds of intimate partner violence to the greatest degree.”
> 
> The study’s findings, though notable, should hardly come as a surprise. Booze has a long and sordid association with violent and aggressive behavior. Victim survey data analyzed by the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism reports that just over a quarter of all violent crimes – and specifically, some three out of every four incidents of intimate partner violence – are committed by an offender who had recently been drinking. Separate data tracking alcohol use rates and homicide rates over multiple decades reports that rising and falling rates of murder are closely correlated with the nation’s drinking patterns.


And what about pot? Unlike with alcohol, experts’ assessments of cannabis’s potential role in violent behavior have reported no demonstrable link between consumption and increased incidences of violent behavior. 

For example, as initially concluded in 1972 by President Richard Nixon’s National Commission on Marihuana and Drug Abuse, “[M]arihuana is not generally viewed by participants in the criminal justice community as a major contributing influence in the commission of delinquent or criminal acts.”
Three decades later, members of a Canadian-government appointed expert commission similarlyaffirmed: “Cannabis use does not induce users to commit other forms of crime. Cannabis use does not increase aggressiveness or anti-social behavior.
That same year, British Parliament advisory officials likewise concluded: “Cannabis differs from alcohol … in one major respect. It does not seem to increase risk-taking behavior. This means that cannabis rarely contributes to violence either to others or to oneself, whereas alcohol use is a major factor in deliberate self-harm, domestic accidents and violence.”
More recent peer-reviewed science further dismisses any tangible link between cannabis consumption and increased risks of either violence or personal injury. For instance, a 2005 logistical retrogression analysis of approximately 900 trauma patients by SUNY-Buffalo’s Department of Family Medicine reported that use of cannabis is not independently associated with either violent or non-violent injuries requiring hospitalization. More recently, a 2010 review published in _The American Journal of Emergency Medicine _concluded that lifetime use of marijuana is rarely associated with emergency room visits. Others studies have even gone so far as to conclude that the use of cannabis is inversely associated with injuries requiring hospitalization whereas recent (within the prior six hours) alcohol consumption increases one’s risk of serious injury three-fold.

Alcohol Fuels Domestic Violence, While Marijuana Doesn't—Guess Which One the Feds Are Demonizing | Alternet


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## kittenmogu (Jun 19, 2014)

Hm. I don't trust anyone's "information" about weed. There's heavy bias on both sides and I don't know who to trust for information. Cigarettes were once "physician tested," and the authority of doctors was used to promote it. That doesn't translate directly to marijiuana-- the two situations are different. I'm just bringing that example to show that the truth is a lot harder to discern from all these conflicting sources, and sometimes authority can't be trusted.

Knowledge I do trust about weed:

-It is sometimes prescribed for certain medical conditions, including to relieve pain.
-Our understanding of marijuana's long-term brain effects is limited. We do understand its short-term effects.
-In some states, primary caregivers and patients are allowed to grow their medical marijuana.
-The status of legality depends on the state, at least in the US. Possession is allowed the most. There are far more restrictions on sale, cultivation, and transport.
-Too much intake or reliance on any substance is bad. This applies to cigarettes, alcohol, caffeine, and weed. Weed is not magically exempted.

I don't really care who uses it and who doesn't. Although I don't care for the smell, and I probably won't be using it because there's a fair likelihood that it won't go well with my SSRI anti-depressants.

All these comparisons to other substances are irrelevant. What matters is: is weed safe? Can we properly educate the public about any risks involved if we legalize it? What right does the state have to prohibiting certain substances? What should determine if a substance is allowable?

There's some that say the only reason tobacco has gotten it easy is because white landowners have historically been growing it in the US. I wouldn't be too surprised about that, but I can't promote that as fact.


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## intp_gurl (Mar 8, 2014)

Eckis said:


> The point of prison is punishment for breaking the law.



Thats a high price to pay for an unjust law. Laws that are wrong need to be changed.

I don't want someone in jail for vicodin, so why jail for weed. The law is wrong.


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## B3LIAL (Dec 21, 2013)

Antiloop said:


> I am genuinly interested, could you show some sources. I've read a lot about this in my time, and there's no real clear conclusion. Some studies show that alcohol is more dangerous, some that weed and cigarettes are more dangerous. The only thing they appear to agree on is that alcohol is more immediately dangerous, and weed/cigs are more dangerous in the long run.


1. Weed has never been proven to kill anyone. You cannot overdose on it, and there's been no study proving that Weed significantly shortens your life, unlike Alcohol and Cigarettes if you overindulge.

2. Don't put weed and Cigarettes into the same category. Cigarette smoke is significantly more toxic than Marijuana smoke. True Weed is not harmless, but it has far more health benefits and uses than Alcohol and Cigarettes, and it just doesn't damage your lungs and body in the same way.

If Weed is a danger to anything it's your mind, but it's usually a small minority of people who end up falling victim to the detrimental mental health effects, and it's not a reason at all to keep it banned.


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## cremefraiche (Jul 9, 2014)

Spastic Origami said:


> ... again, his argument is stems from an ignorance of what marijuana is. Much of the marijuana subculture believes smoking to be the balm for all sorrows. There are medicinal values to smoking; I have a friend who smokes it to ease the pain of her fibrosis but at the same time she doesn't assign it any extraneous benefits that are not this. Your friend is really making an argument for escapism ... I've heard similar arguments for drinking, religion, sex and other ideologies. If we were to study the history of medicine and medical practices we would uncover a history of miracle drugs and wonder ointments which may even have some medicinal value. However, their value was greatly exaggerated dues to commercial and cultural pressures. Simply put; most dealers like this myth because it is profitable to their enterprise and they want to make bank.
> 
> ... as much as I like to have a good smoke now and then I find the culture quite unbearable. It's quite nice to see a few voices of reason in this thread. Everything said, many doctors in my city were prescribing oxycondone, percocet and other opium derivatives for all sorts of pain. My city has developed a substantial addiction problem to both opiates and amphetamines which necessitated two methadone clinics and numerous addiction centres in a city of under 400,000. If I break a bone or worse I would like to have the choice to smoke marijuana instead. I'm neither for or against its recreational use but I am for making an informed decision and I am for the understanding of how all drugs work. Personally I do not want to build up an a tolerance to a substance that might later prove itself useful. That said I do enjoy having an occasional smoke and going for a walk. Or reading.


Thank you. I appreciate this, and completely agree with you.

I never want smokers to feel like I'm saying what they're doing recreationally is bad, or wrong. Generally the points I am making are from experiences with people who use it for escapism and not relief.


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## Antiloop (Feb 10, 2014)

@FearAndTrembling

Ah, I think you misinterpreted me. I didn't mean you were wrong because you didn't back up your claims, I meant you weren't right because you didn't, and I could easily counter you (at least that's what it looked like) assumption by making an assumption of my own. However, it appears you had something to give, and I'll agree that alcohol a lot more easily leads to violence than weed.

*edit*
@B3LIAL

Yes, you've said that. I am getting misinterpreted a lot today. I suppose it's me. There are some studies saying one thing, there are some studies saying the opposite, which one should I believe.


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## cremefraiche (Jul 9, 2014)

B3LIAL said:


> 1. Weed has never been proven to kill anyone. You cannot overdose on it, and there's been no study proving that Weed significantly shortens your life, unlike Alcohol and Cigarettes if you overindulge.
> 
> 2. Don't put weed and Cigarettes into the same category. Cigarette smoke is significantly more toxic than Marijuana smoke. True Weed is not harmless, but it has far more health benefits and uses than Alcohol and Cigarettes, and it just doesn't damage your lungs and body in the same way.
> 
> If Weed is a danger to anything it's your mind, but it's usually a small minority of people who end up falling victim to the detrimental mental health effects, and it's not a reason at all to keep it banned.


I appreciate your arguments but...#1 puts weed and cigarettes into comparison, contrary to what is stated in #2. Even if you're saying one is worse than the other, you're still putting them into the smoking category.

Also, genuine question out of genuine curiosity/no leanings from my end: Is someone who has a small cocktail once a week worse off than someone who smokes weed once a week?


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## B3LIAL (Dec 21, 2013)

john.thomas said:


> No I'm just really bad at making my point without giving it a lot of thought which I really don't want to do right now. I could bring up statistics on the DEA website if you want to prove it's bad.


I'm sorry, but saying that Alcohol isn't a drug shows a clear lack of knowledge on the subject. That's not just you not thinking it through, that's ignorance. 

And you're seriously going to give me "statistics" from the department of "Justice" about this issue? A drug enforcement website?

It will be biased as shit. I want independent studies.

But regardless, even if you can show that it does harmful things to your body, I wont completely disagree with you, all I'm saying is that you cannot show me or anyone else why it's so harmful that it should be ILLEGAL!.

Even if you disagree with the fact that Alcohol and Cigarettes are more harmful to the consumer, you cannot seriously disagree that Alcohol is far more damaging to those around it than marijuana is. 

If it was legal, than people would know the risks and choose to do it anyway. That's the point of being a free adult making your own decisions about what you put in your own body.

Just because Alcohol leads some people to killing or hurting others, doesn't mean it should be illegal for anyone to use it, the same as Weed being potentially harmful to those who smoke it isn't a reason for everyone's rights to smoke it be taken away.


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## intp_gurl (Mar 8, 2014)

I think cigs are poision, weed is a natural herb. Legalize it.


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## Kizuna (Jul 30, 2011)

kittenmogu said:


> ...and sometimes authority can't be trusted.
> 
> //
> 
> All these comparisons to other substances are irrelevant. What matters is: is weed safe? Can we properly educate the public about any risks involved if we legalize it? What right does the state have to prohibiting certain substances? What should determine if a substance is allowable?


Makes sense.


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## cremefraiche (Jul 9, 2014)

kittenmogu said:


> all these comparisons to other substances are irrelevant. What matters is: Is weed safe? Can we properly educate the public about any risks involved if we legalize it?


thank you!
^I keep trying to all-caps this but it won't let me


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## B3LIAL (Dec 21, 2013)

cremefraiche said:


> I appreciate your arguments but...#1 puts weed and cigarettes into comparison, contrary to what is stated in #2. Even if you're saying one is worse than the other, you're still putting them into the smoking category.


It's flawed logic. It's like saying Wine and Absinthe should be classed as remotely similar simply because they are both in the "drinking category".

Both are alcoholic drinks, but one is far stronger and more damaging than the other. The health risk of drinking Absinthe far outweighs the risk to drinking Wine. Yes, both can be used to cause harm to your health, but one is far more easier to damage with.

Cigarettes are the leading cause of preventable death. They significantly shorten your life if regularly smoked. Marijuana - It would be best if you didn't smoke it, but it would be best if you didn't do a lot of things.

Marijuana has plenty of health benefits, and is not at all as toxic as cigarettes smoke.


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## cremefraiche (Jul 9, 2014)

B3LIAL said:


> It's flawed logic. It's like saying Wine and Absinthe should be classed is remotely similar simply because they are both in the "drinking category".
> 
> Both are alcoholic drinks, but one is far stronger and more damaging than the other. The health risk of drinking Absinthe far outweighs the risk to drinking Wine. Yes, both can be used to cause harm to your health, but one is far more easier to damage with.
> 
> ...


All I'm saying is, I don't see why cigarettes are brought into the argument at all if they aren't even in the same category.

That probably extends to the person who argued cigarettes against you, though.


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## intp_gurl (Mar 8, 2014)

Weed should be legal.

I dont see people in europe and canada going crazy because they have legal weed. As far as I know, weed isnt causing these countries to increase incarceration for weed related crimes. People thought legal alcohol would crash american society once, but it didnt. Some people drink in moderation, others don't. 

Legal weed wont hurt america. It hasnt hurt europe and canada, or jamaica.


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## DAPHNE XO (Jan 16, 2012)

If you have a genetic predisposal to paranoia... don't do it man. It can induce schizophrenia. 

Also, smoke in moderation.... don't smoke it because you're bored and have nothing else to do, it could easily become a crutch that will consume your entire life.

Other than that, enjoy!


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## Eckis (Feb 7, 2013)

intp_gurl said:


> I think cigs are poision, weed is a natural herb. Legalize it.


Woah, are you actually saying that because something is natural means it should be smoked/consumed/etc.? There are plenty of poisonous things growing in the ground, my friend.


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## cremefraiche (Jul 9, 2014)

Eckis said:


> Woah, are you actually saying that because something is natural means it should be smoked/consumed/etc.? There are plenty of poisonous things growing in the ground, my friend.


Like I said, natural fallacy.


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## B3LIAL (Dec 21, 2013)

Eckis said:


> Woah, are you actually saying that because something is natural means it should be smoked/consumed/etc.? There are plenty of poisonous things growing in the ground, my friend.


What he's saying is that there's a lot of manufactured shit that goes in to cigarettes. Weed is... well... weed! It's just as it is. It's a herb. You know where you stand with it.


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## bellybutton (Jan 2, 2014)

B3LIAL said:


> What he's saying is that there's a lot of manufactured shit that goes in to cigarettes. Weed is... well... weed! It's just as it is. It's a herb. You know where you stand with it.


Only if you grew it yourself.. Otherwise there is the possibility of it being laced


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk


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## intp_gurl (Mar 8, 2014)

cremefraiche said:


> Like I said, natural fallacy.


I'm saying if cigs was just the tobacco it would be almost harmless. Most people know old persons who smoke cigars or pure tobacco and live to 100. If I had a choice between cigs and weed, I would do weed 100 times more

also, weed does have medicinal uses, pain, eating difficulties, etc. Since when has cigs been used for anything useful.


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## B3LIAL (Dec 21, 2013)

bellybutton said:


> Only if you grew it yourself.. Otherwise there is the possibility of it being laced
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk


Agreed. You should check the source. I know where it's coming from which is why I agreed to purchase some. It's from a family member so I should be good. I would never buy it from a random person.


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## cremefraiche (Jul 9, 2014)

intp_gurl said:


> I'm saying if cigs was just the tobacco it would be almost harmless. Most people know old persons who smoke cigars or pure tobacco and live to 100. If I had a choice between cigs and weed, I would do weed 100 times more
> 
> also, weed does have medicinal uses, pain, eating difficulties, etc. Since when has cigs been used for anything useful.


Yeah, you have a point. I'm just saying that cigarettes being unnatural/bad doesn't have anything to do with weed.

I know it has medicinal uses. I posted about that frequently. But in general the "natural is good" argument is a fallacy.


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## intp_gurl (Mar 8, 2014)

cremefraiche said:


> Yeah, you have a point. I'm just saying that cigarettes being unnatural/bad doesn't have anything to do with weed.
> 
> I know it has medicinal uses. I posted about that frequently. But in general the "natural is good" argument is a fallacy.


I agree with you that natural is a fallacy. I have some natural weight loss pills that poop my pants. I aint taking that sh*t no more.


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## phonethesun (May 6, 2013)

ISTJ, i have no problem with it. I used to partake alot, but don't anymore due to anxiety. I'll smoke after a couple drinks, as it fends off the anxiety and increases the focus. Otherwise I'm shaking and unable to pay attention to anything. So I've got nothing against it, just people who can't financially afford their habits. But like any other drug, it isn't for everyone, which the culture surrounding it seems to brush off at times.


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## Doc Dangerstein (Mar 8, 2013)

cremefraiche said:


> Yeah, you have a point. I'm just saying that cigarettes being unnatural/bad doesn't have anything to do with weed.
> 
> I know it has medicinal uses. I posted about that frequently. But in general the "natural is good" argument is a fallacy.


So, let's debunk this fallacy. Opium/Laudanum and Scopolamine are both natural substances. Knowledge of opium, it's derivatives and their effects is common in western literature and science. Scopolamine is used to treat motion sickness and nausea and it is often used in criminal activities to put somebody unconscious or to induce twilight sleep. Tobacco and alcohol are also natural substances. Even before popularization of cigarettes, tobacco was found to be a useful pesticide in farming. Let's not talk about the birth defects from cyclopamine, another natural substance found in plants, because that's just ... uh, really gross.

... another fallacy is addiction. True, marijuana does NOT have the addictive proprieties of heroin, cocaine, tobacco and numerous other substances. Along with LSD and the hallucinogenics it is among the least PHYSICALLY addictive of drugs. Marijuana is addictive. And I do believe it was @_bellybutton_ who pointed out the possibility of becoming addicted to non physical things. The addiction to marijuana is psychological. Getting stoned allows a person to go from a state of more pain to a state of less pain. And pain being what it is, it is perfectly reasonable that humans and other living things would wish to avoid this condition. That said ... there is a world of a difference between smoking because you have cancer and smoking because you've missed your bus and you're stressed about being five minutes late for class. There's also a difference between enjoying a smoke now and again and smoking because you derive a sense of identity from being a pothead.

... maybe the real argument I'm making is to be well read, to think critically, to make informed decisions and be responsible for your own actions. Drugs and otherwise. Ask good question and demand good answers.


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## cremefraiche (Jul 9, 2014)

intp_gurl said:


> I agree with you that natural is a fallacy. I have some natural weight loss pills that poop my pants. I aint taking that sh*t no more.


Nice pun. roud:


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## cremefraiche (Jul 9, 2014)

Spastic Origami said:


> * *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


A well educated and balanced assessment. Thanks, Spastic. This and the thread in general have also helped me to realize that the people in my life are definitely the "five minutes late"/"identity" kind which is going to be useful for debates.

Much appreciated.


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## Amine (Feb 23, 2014)

The fact that weed isn't legal is evidence enough to prove that we live under tyranny, and I mean that in every sense of the word; the only thing preventing anyone from seeing it is normalcy bias. You smoke it and it makes you happy, period. The only possible dangers to society are impaired driving and access by children, both of which can obviously be dealt with in a far more rational way than flatly outlawing it and sending millions of people to prison who did absolutely nothing wrong.


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## HFGE (Jul 19, 2014)

I don't have any strong opinions about weed other than it's illegal and will probably continue to be so. I don't smoke the stuff or do any other drug so I couldn't really care any less.


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## Doc Dangerstein (Mar 8, 2013)

.You're not seeing the logical fallacy here. Cigarettes ARE immorally used by teenagers because you need to be 18/19 or 21 to smoke them and therefore these little kiddies are breaking the law. Someone is tripping over his arguments. Most importantly since when is authority an expert on morality. Most of our moral knowledge comes from people saying "no, this will not do" to the establishment while pointing out their exploitation of humanity and demanding that they and other people be treated with respect. Unless, of course, you WANT to go back to Leviticus?

Progress in ethics is only accomplished through asking the correct questions and looking for the correct answers. And. how many studies have we got PROVING that smoking is harmful?


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## Castle (Jan 25, 2014)

I knew a guy once very well from childhood and this person always had a rough time fitting in with other people because he obsessed over feely type things like animals and wanting to be a writer and live on a farm and breed dogs and people used to make fun of him for it. It was actually kinda cute how he loved his dog so much and had these dreams but the thing he wanted most was to find people that accepted him for him and that's where weed came in. He fell into deep depression because he felt like no one understood him. frequently he would talk to me about how his friends were not treating him with respect and making fun of his beliefs. *rather sensitve* and yet he wouldn't let them out of his life because he didn't want to be alone i guess. He wanted to be loved so much but he didn't change himself to do it, he stayed true to himself but found weed as a way to escape. He became dependent on it. At first he said to me that it wasn't about getting away from depression and finding acceptance with other people who smoked weed but that it was trying something new. When he got caught he realized the truth. He was truly lonely and understood that the very root of the weed problem was a result of depression and loneliness because when he did drugs he felt a part of something and had some sort of "out-side famiy."


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## something987 (Jul 20, 2014)

Oh, my favorite topic, weed.

I don't consume it, I used to, and when it worked, it really worked. I would use it every day, but I only had a tiny fraction of a hit throughout the day and it took me about ten days to go through a gram. Unfortunately I can no longer tolerate it due to an illness.

I am very pro marijuana. I've seen what prescription drugs do to people, first hand and second hand. It's inexcusable. Every argument against marijuana is laughable at best. Feel free to bring any of them up and I will happily debunk them


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## something987 (Jul 20, 2014)

bellybutton said:


> Only if you grew it yourself.. Otherwise there is the possibility of it being laced
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk


Weed is cheap. Drugs used to lace weed are expensive. Unless you are at a party with questionable people, highly doubt your weed is laced.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

john.thomas said:


> Cigarettes and obesity are not as bad as marijuana because they aren't immorally used by teenagers to get attention and disrespect their authority figures.


That's not why teenagers use marijuana. Teenagers use marijuana because getting high is euphoric and numbs their feelings.


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## bellybutton (Jan 2, 2014)

Ksilva said:


> Weed is cheap. Drugs used to lace weed are expensive. Unless you are at a party with questionable people, highly doubt your weed is laced.


You can't ignore that it is a possibility, which was my point. So I guess it's more of a warning to anyone who likes going and getting smoked out. 


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

Merihim said:


> I don't care what the rest does with it, die on it for all I care.
> 
> All I know is it left me dissociated after a bad trip. Dissociated for more than over a good year now. It's not fun.


Bad trip? That's not weed. Tripping is done with psychedelics, not hallucinogens.


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## bellybutton (Jan 2, 2014)

@Merihim

Haha, seriously dude, 
I'm not sure what you took but it definitely was not weed. That made me laugh for some reason, a year? 
🙀

Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk


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## something987 (Jul 20, 2014)

bellybutton said:


> You can't ignore that it is a possibility, which was my point. So I guess it's more of a warning to anyone who likes going and getting smoked out.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk


That's true, but you stand the same chance of getting your drink spiked at a nightclub, so it's all relative. In the argument against weed it's just not really a valid point. I'm not telling you you're wrong, just saying this as a general statement to people who might think this.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

bellybutton said:


> You can't ignore that it is a possibility, which was my point. So I guess it's more of a warning to anyone who likes going and getting smoked out.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk



A possibility so remote its not even worth mentioning. Whatever else it may be, dealing marijuana is a business. A dealer who gets a shady reputation won't get repeat business.


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## bellybutton (Jan 2, 2014)

Ksilva said:


> That's true, but you stand the same chance of getting your drink spiked at a nightclub, so it's all relative. In the argument against weed it's just not really a valid point. I'm not telling you you're wrong, just saying this as a general statement to people who might think this.


I originally responded to someone who said it was natural and fine because you knew where it was coming from, i'm assuming you didn't see that. You just seem like you just want to argue about it, which is whatever, because you obviously don't even know my stance on the subject. I don't care, really just pointing out the obvious. Anything is possible, someone making a general statement that natural equals safe had to be refuted 


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

john.thomas said:


> I'm beginning to think people who smoke marijuana do it for attention and to look cool, from everything I hear about it, it doesn't seem like such a great experience.


You are wrong JT. It makes most people feel better. It isn't for everyone, but it isn't as bad as the government has made it out to be. Alcohol and cigarettes are far more dangerous than marijuana, and yet they aren't illegal.


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## bellybutton (Jan 2, 2014)

tanstaafl28 said:


> A possibility so remote its not even worth mentioning. Whatever else it may be, dealing marijuana is a business. A dealer who gets a shady reputation won't get repeat business.


Getting smoked out doesn't involve dealings, it's when people give you it for free. The warning is that you can't know what they like to put in it. I'm assuming you didn't know what being smoked out meant or you wouldn't have responded with something that clearly missed the point. Anyway, argue with someone who's actually against it. We're just arguing amongst our selves and it's pretty damn pointless. 


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

john.thomas said:


> There's a reason it's illegal, because it's bad and immoral.


JT, I'm afraid you have a great deal to learn. Legality, or illegality, has little to do with morality; it has more to do with politics and profits.


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## gracie1030 (Jun 15, 2014)

Edit: Nevermind


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

bellybutton said:


> Getting smoked out doesn't involve dealings, it's when people give you it for free. The warning is that you can't know what they like to put in it. I'm assuming you didn't know what being smoked out meant or you wouldn't have responded with something that clearly missed the point. Anyway, argue with someone who's actually against it. We're just arguing amongst are selves and it's pretty damn pointless.
> 
> Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk



Must be an generational thing. We smoked out, we don't "get smoked out." Us older folks know where to get the good stuff from trustworthy sources, so we don't have to worry about such problems. Sure, I've taken a hit or two off a joint passed around a concert. No big. You don't share laced weed with strangers. It's too expensive. You keep that for yourself.


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## Mammon (Jul 12, 2012)

tanstaafl28 said:


> Bad trip? That's not weed. Tripping is done with psychedelics, not hallucinogens.


Could've been laced. I think PCP. Still, fck drugs.



bellybutton said:


> @_Merihim_
> 
> Haha, seriously dude,
> I'm not sure what you took but it definitely was not weed. That made me laugh for some reason, a year?
> ...


A year, yes. A year worth of tripping? Omygoshz! 

No. A year worth of chemical imbalance or just plain brain damage. I'd say the latter, even more so if it was PCP, straight up neurotoxin 

Don't really care what it was though, fck em all.


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## something987 (Jul 20, 2014)

bellybutton said:


> I originally responded to someone who said it was natural and fine because you knew where it was coming from, i'm assuming you didn't see that. You just seem like you just want to argue about it, which is whatever, because you obviously don't even know my stance on the subject. I don't care, really just pointing out the obvious. Anything is possible, someone making a general statement that natural equals safe had to be refuted
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk


No, I'm really not trying to argue about it. I tried to word my post to convey that. I'm just pointing out a misconception that I've heard before, and you happened to be the one that posted it. I did see you responded to the natural argument. Not trying to make you defensive, I agree with your other posts.


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## something987 (Jul 20, 2014)

tanstaafl28 said:


> A possibility so remote its not even worth mentioning. Whatever else it may be, dealing marijuana is a business. A dealer who gets a shady reputation won't get repeat business.


Yeah this is what I was trying to say. Hard to say it without sounding rude, but it's really not worth pointing out. It's just bad business, and the dealer would be ripping himself off. No need to worry about getting your weed laced, people!


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## JTHearts (Aug 6, 2013)

One reason I don't like marijuana and don't want it legalized is because the people who use it tend to be popular and go to parties and stuff and I don't get to do any of that because pretty much everyone hates me so I want them to go to jail if they get caught with it because they're mean to me.

I think I will take up drinking and smoking cigarettes when I'm of legal age though (I'm never going to be able to get them underage) to help me with my problems. I hear once your body gets addicted to nicotine cigarettes calm you, and that sounds like what I need. I'll never be able to get anything illegal like marijuana though, because I have no social network and therefore no way to get it.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

@Tom Soy Sauce

Our attitudes are very similar in this regard.


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## SweetPickles (Mar 19, 2012)

If alcohol (which I think is much more dangerous) is legal, then so should marijuana. I personally don't care for it, like I need a reason to be lazy...


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## DoctorShoe (Jan 9, 2013)

I'm an ISTJ. I don't have an interest in smoking weed, but I don't mind if other people want to legalize it.


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## something987 (Jul 20, 2014)

john.thomas said:


> It annoys me, these people who are like "Prescription drugs are bad, weed is good" because they obviously have never experienced the help prescription drugs can bring. I'm on a lot of prescriptions right now and they are the reason I'm alive today probably.


I do not mean to sound offensive, but every post you have written here is deeply bathed in bias. One could just as easily say that they are using weed right now and it's the reason they are alive today. People with cancer, PTSD, autoimmune disorders, seizure disorders, the list goes on. These people mostly have turned to marijuana _because_ they have used prescription drugs, and no, they did not help, or they came with a laundry list of side effects, or the drugs had a high addiction potential.


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## Tom Soy Sauce (Jul 25, 2013)

tanstaafl28 said:


> @_Tom Soy Sauce_
> 
> Our attitudes are very similar in this regard.


A lot of people seem to find it odd that I'm so adamant about legalization, yet I rarely partake. To me there's just little to actually debate. The anti-legalize people rely on old platitudes that have either been proven wrong or they just base their logic on propaganda. 

I don't have a personal agenda, which probably hurts a lot of the legalization pushers because there are tons of uneducated potheads who just want it legal out of selfishness, when they actually don't know the true benefits of legalizing and how it effects the big picture (people being thrown in jail for possession, Mexican cartels, economic profit, etc.)


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## Antipode (Jul 8, 2012)

Well, I'm all for the original "banning" of alcohol, because as people have said, it can lead to some nasty things.

The reason why it isn't banned is because we've been able to "taste" it. It would be like banning the internet, now. That wouldn't go over so well... but if no one had ever experienced the internet, then no one having it wouldn't be that big of a deal.

Now that weed is legal, after a generation, it will be pretty much impossible to ban it. 

My only real issue with weed is that it goes hand-in-hand with alcohol. It's just another negative thing for people... Yes, one may be legal, but that doesn't mean more should be legal. Also, weed is addictive--more so than over the counter drugs. I just can't quite find a reason to legalize it. Yes, people will shoot in with, "Well, it helps those with medical conditions!" Yes, I'm aware, and alcohol helps with those grieving and depressed--but only in correct doses.

We all know weed won't be taken in with "correct" doses... don't fool yourself on that one.

Either way, it doesn't really matter anymore. It is legalized in many states.

I _personally_ don't use weed, alcohol, or any other drug because I'm a control freak and don't like having no/limited control of myself.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

Tom Soy Sauce said:


> A lot of people seem to find it odd that I'm so adamant about legalization, yet I rarely partake. To me there's just little to actually debate. The anti-legalize people rely on old platitudes that have either been proven wrong or they just base their logic on propaganda.



I too consider it an occasional enhancement rather than an everyday requirement, and I am a proponent of legalization as well. The "war on drugs" is as useless as prohibition of alcohol was in the 1920's. The status quo is maintained because everyone profits from it, except for the users and low-level distributors. 



> I don't have a personal agenda, which probably hurts a lot of the legalization pushers because there are tons of uneducated potheads who just want it legal out of selfishness, when they actually don't know the true benefits of legalizing and how it effects the big picture (people being thrown in jail for possession, Mexican cartels, economic profit, etc.)


Agreed. I think the Netherlands is an excellent example of decriminalization as-well-as a path to legalization. Colorado and Washington are struggling with many details that were not well thought out prior to legalization. This is why a period of decriminalization is probably a good idea, in order to work out the kinks before true legalization.


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## Squirrel (Jun 14, 2014)

I'm against it. It was/is illegal for a reason and it should stay that way. I mean, lets face it, most people are not responsible. Weed is the last thing that should be made legal.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

Antipode said:


> Well, I'm all for the original "banning" of alcohol, because as people have said, it can lead to some nasty things.
> 
> The reason why it isn't banned is because we've been able to "taste" it. It would be like banning the internet, now. That wouldn't go over so well... but if no one had ever experienced the internet, then no one having it wouldn't be that big of a deal.
> 
> ...


Prohibition of alcohol failed because it ignored the basics of economics: as long as there is a demand, there will be a supply. No exceptions. The ban made it lucrative to smuggle alcohol. The large amounts of money to be made created a need for smugglers to arm themselves. Unregulated competition lead to gang wars in which innocent people were caught in the crossfire. 

Despite this important lesson, the U.S. Government has continued to prohibit drugs knowing full well that to do so creates the same suffering and outrage around the world, but now there's too much profit for all sides: Politicians get to claim they are "tough on crime." Law enforcement gets to keep money and property seized in drug raids, and they get more funding to fight drugs, and the suppliers and dealers make their profits because of the high risks of being caught. Everybody wins, except the low-level dealers and users busted for possession. 

Governments cannot legislate a change of attitude, and all laws that deny the many for the irresponsibility of a few, are always doomed to failure.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

Squirrel said:


> I'm against it. It was/is illegal for a reason and it should stay that way. I mean, lets face it, most people are not responsible. Weed is the last thing that should be made legal.


Your reasoning is flawed.


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## Antipode (Jul 8, 2012)

tanstaafl28 said:


> Prohibition of alcohol failed because it ignored the basics of economics: as long as there is a demand, there will be a supply. No exceptions. The ban made it lucrative to smuggle alcohol. The large amounts of money to be made created a need for smugglers to arm themselves. Unregulated competition lead to gang wars in which innocent people were caught in the crossfire.


You will find in history, that there is never just one reason why something succeed or failed. 

Just as there is never just one reason why you passed or failed your history test.


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## Chiaroscuro (Jul 10, 2012)

tanstaafl28 said:


> Your reasoning is flawed.


And yours is perfectly solid apparently... Making medical weed is one thing.. But There's no reason to legalize weed other than to accommodate recreational drug users.


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## something987 (Jul 20, 2014)

Chiaroscuro said:


> @B3LIAL @Ksilva
> Just some studies to check out
> 
> Marijuana use linked to heart problems – The Chart - CNN.com Blogs
> ...


Thanks for the articles, I appreciate it. I just wanna go over them one by one if you don't mind, because there are some flaws in them, as happens with most anti-marijuana studies.

1. What this looks like to me is that some researchers combed through a database of medical problems searching for a link between heart disease and cannabis. "Cannabis users" were basically cross-referenced with people with "cardiac complications". These two categories include quite a large number of people, and as such there is inevitably going to be some crossover. It says the estimated number of cannabis users in France is 1.2 million; this study found 35 people who matched their search criteria, out of 2000 entries. From the article: "Only 20% of patients in the study had a known history of heart disease or risk factors for heart disease. The other patients may have had unknown cardiovascular risk factors or a history that was not documented in the medical file." In other words, it was a shoddy attempt at finding some link based on vague records of patients.

2. "marijuana smoke contains cancer-causing chemicals. There are 33 cancer-causing chemicals contained in marijuana." I would like to see a source on this claim, but in any case, the solution to this is simple: don't smoke. Smoke is usually not good for your lungs, no matter the source. "Marijuana smoke also deposits tar into the lungs. In fact, when equal amounts of marijuana and tobacco are smoked, marijuana deposits four times as much tar into the lungs." This is what annoys me. It is intentionally misleading. Marijuana may have more tar in it's smoke. But the amount of cigarette smoke the average smoker inhales, compared to his marijuana smoking equivalent, is vastly higher. Think about it: how many people have you heard of that chain smoke joints? I'm not doubting they're out there, but only serious burn-outs who never leave the house can afford the luxury of being nearly incapacitated 24/7. Chain smoking, on the other hand, is fairly common. Anyone who smokes less than 10 cigarettes per day is considered a "light smoker". There's some other stuff in there that is typical of "marijuana FAQs", but I don't know if it's important enough to cover as it all falls under the "it'll make you lazy and dumb" category. Again, everything in moderation.

3. This one is pretty clear cut. Arguments pro and con about marijuana inducing schizophrenia. The thing about schizophrenia is, if you have a genetic susceptibility to develop schizophrenia, yeah, it could be revealed by using marijuana. But if you don't have the propensity to develop it, it's not going to happen. Schizophrenia is thought to be a result of too little glutamate in the brain. Marijuana lowers glutamate levels. It would make sense that they clash. Just like you wouldn't give blood thinners to someone with low blood pressure, people who have schizophrenia need to inform themselves about their illness (as all people with illnesses do) and avoid marijuana. There is no perfect substance; everything has the potential to be bad. It's the same as staying away from food you're allergic to.

4. Man, I'm getting worn out. This is another article about how marijuana is more potent, and somehow that correlates to more people seeking treatment for "cannabis-related health problems". What a nice vague statement. This article just reeks of propaganda, I don't even know where to start. A statistic about the rise in percentage of underage cannabis use. Okay, that doesn't say much. Then backing it up with the rationale "partly fueled by a misperception of the health risks". Another vague non-statement. I don't really know what to say about this article. The potency of marijuana has gone up. Yeah. The solution? Get yours at a dispensary and know what you're buying, instead of smoking some nasty brick weed. If marijuana is decriminalized, the problems posed in this article will solve themselves. "Critics say legalization will not only increase consumption but also open the door to the use of much harder drugs, including heroin." Wow, I don't even know what to say to this... I think I'm done.

I hope I'm not coming across in the wrong way. I'm just irritated that these types of articles make their way to the general public without being properly critiqued.


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## Chiaroscuro (Jul 10, 2012)

Ksilva said:


> Thanks for the articles, I appreciate it. I just wanna go over them one by one if you don't mind, because there are some flaws in them, as happens with most anti-marijuana studies.
> 
> 1. What this looks like to me is that some researchers combed through a database of medical problems searching for a link between heart disease and cannabis. "Cannabis users" were basically cross-referenced with people with "cardiac complications". These two categories include quite a large number of people, and as such there is inevitably going to be some crossover. It says the estimated number of cannabis users in France is 1.2 million; this study found 35 people who matched their search criteria, out of 2000 entries. From the article: "Only 20% of patients in the study had a known history of heart disease or risk factors for heart disease. The other patients may have had unknown cardiovascular risk factors or a history that was not documented in the medical file." In other words, it was a shoddy attempt at finding some link based on vague records of patients.
> 
> ...


You're a user, no doubt you will be arguing in favor of weed no matter what the evidence suggests. That's called self-serving bias. In any case, since you believe so much in marijuana as a substance why don't you move to a medical state? Apparently they prescribe it for "anxiety" and other bunk medical conditions. Even if it's illegal in your home state you will only get a slap on the wrist for possession, smoke up brah! But don't preach weed as a miracle drug.


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## abstrus (Jul 22, 2014)

it seems ok, id like to try it


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## something987 (Jul 20, 2014)

[deleted]


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## something987 (Jul 20, 2014)

Chiaroscuro said:


> And yours is perfectly solid apparently... Making medical weed is one thing.. But There's no reason to legalize weed other than to accommodate recreational drug users.


So you're just gonna go ahead and ignore every other solid argument posed, in favor of your opinion...?


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## something987 (Jul 20, 2014)

Chiaroscuro said:


> You're a user, no doubt you will be arguing in favor of weed no matter what the evidence suggests. That's called self-serving bias. In any case, since you believe so much in marijuana as a substance why don't you move to a medical state? Apparently they prescribe it for "anxiety" and other bunk medical conditions. Even if it's illegal in your home state you will only get a slap on the wrist for possession, smoke up brah! But don't preach weed as a miracle drug.


Nope. Don't use it. I am in a medical state. Anxiety is a "bunk" condition? I don't know how to argue with that logic. Considering I spent about an hour writing this response, and you just basically turned up your nose at it... That says more about you than me.


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## Tom Soy Sauce (Jul 25, 2013)

Squirrel said:


> I'm against it. It was/is illegal for a reason and it should stay that way. I mean, lets face it, most people are not responsible. Weed is the last thing that should be made legal.


Implying that if weed is made legal EVERYONE will start smoking it, as if consumption will skyrocket just because of a law. People who want to smoke weed are already doing it. The increase if at all would not be that dramatic. Look at alcohol prohibition, that didn't stop hardly anybody from drinking. In terms of consumption, it stayed relatively the same. Marijuana legalization laws are being treated just as alcohol is, people act like anyone can buy it which is just absurd. If anything it would be harder to obtain if legal, because drug dealers don't card people for ID.

Do you actually know a reason why it was made illegal or are you just assuming it was prohibited for good reason?


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

Antipode said:


> You will find in history, that there is never just one reason why something succeed or failed.
> 
> Just as there is never just one reason why you passed or failed your history test.


Agreed. I believe my synopsis identified the key reasons why prohibition failed.


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## Chiaroscuro (Jul 10, 2012)

Ksilva said:


> Nope. Don't use it. I am in a medical state. Anxiety is a "bunk" condition? I don't know how to argue with that logic. Considering I spent about an hour writing this response, and you just basically turned up your nose at it... That says more about you than me.


Anxiety disorder is very real.. But everyone has anxiety to some degree. I read your responses, you try to mitigate the importance of those studies. In that case, if research has so little importance than tell me how we can be sure weed has any positive effects? Are those studies faulty in your mind as well, or do you fulfill the self-serving bias as a champion of your opinion?


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## William I am (May 20, 2011)

Don't fool yourself. Weed is no better or worse than alcohol. It's only different. 

Weed caused me to hurt people more than alcohol did, including myself. 

I'm all for legalization - I think all drugs should be legal and available in safe-ish forms regulated and sold by the government. But don't believe all that bull about weed being all flowers and sunshine. I've seen it do pretty bad stuff to people and some bad stuff to me.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

Chiaroscuro said:


> And yours is perfectly solid apparently... Making medical weed is one thing.. But There's no reason to legalize weed other than to accommodate recreational drug users.


The reasons is that marijuana was made illegal in the first place were political rather than due to any serious harm its use creates. Too many people are either profiting, or suffering, due to that decision. It makes no logical sense for marijuana to be illegal while alcohol and cigarettes, which have far more dangerous consequences, are not.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

There are alternative ways to consume marijuana besides smoking it.


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## Tom Soy Sauce (Jul 25, 2013)

tanstaafl28 said:


> The reasons is that marijuana was made illegal in the first place were political rather than due to any serious harm its use creates. Too many people are either profiting, or suffering, due to that decision. It makes no logical sense for marijuana to be illegal while alcohol and cigarettes, which have far more dangerous consequences, are not.


Yeah like you touched base on earlier about the War on Drugs, the astronomical amounts of money the government spends just to _keep _marijuana illegal is just ridiculous. It's already doing much more harm than good in the current state.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

William I am said:


> Don't fool yourself. Weed is no better or worse than alcohol. It's only different.
> 
> Weed caused me to hurt people more than alcohol did, including myself.
> 
> I'm all for legalization - I think all drugs should be legal and available in safe-ish forms regulated and sold by the government. But don't believe all that bull about weed being all flowers and sunshine. I've seen it do pretty bad stuff to people and some bad stuff to me.


What could you have possibly done besides mellow you out and give you the munchies?


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## Antipode (Jul 8, 2012)

tanstaafl28 said:


> Agreed. I believe my synopsis identified the key reasons why prohibition failed.


That'd be why you said it, and why I said what I said.


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## GranChi (Jun 16, 2013)

I don't smoke it myself and don't plan to, because I don't really believe in using substances like that instead of living naturally. I don't really have a strong opinion either way about whether it should be legalized, but I guess if I had to choose I'd say I think it should. Just because it's good to make their own choices, a lot of people seem to want it to be, and as the OP mentioned, it's thought to be less dangerous than alcohol which is legal. However, I do think people should be taught the possible health risks associated with it, cause I'm tired of people snarkily saying it's "harmless".


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## Chiaroscuro (Jul 10, 2012)

tanstaafl28 said:


> What could you have possibly done besides mellow you out and give you the munchies?


What if he had a genetic predisposition for schizophrenia and he ruined his mental health? What if he got an arrhythmia due to weed use, which led to a heart attack or congestive heart failure? What if he developed COPD? Don't be ignorant. There are health consequences.


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## something987 (Jul 20, 2014)

Chiaroscuro said:


> Anxiety disorder is very real.. But everyone has anxiety to some degree. I read your responses, you try to mitigate the importance of those studies. In that case, if research has so little importance than tell me how we can be sure weed has any positive effects? Are those studies faulty in your mind as well, or do you fulfill the self-serving bias as a champion of your opinion?


When did I say research has little importance? To the contrary I think research is very, very important, which is why it irritates me when I see it done in such a poor fashion. Here are some examples of what I consider good articles.

Cannabis smoking and lung cancer risk: Pooled analysis in the International Lung Cancer Consortium - Zhang - 2014 - International Journal of Cancer - Wiley Online Library
This is an international study, put forth by the International Journal for Cancer, which came out last month.

http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/cannabis/patient/page
This, surprisingly, is a government website. However, as opposed to the ALA article, cancer.gov cites all of their claims with links to the studies performed.

I'm not claiming marijuana is a cure all. I admitted that it's not for everyone. It's not even for me, because I have a lowered immune system due to a chronic illness. But the health concerns purported by the government are, for the most part, misinformed. How can we know marijuana has positive effects? Well, aside from the articles I just posted, there is a wealth of information out there about people using it to treat the illnesses I mentioned in another comment.

There is a difference between a bias and a stance. Since I am not a user of marijuana, I have no vested interest in it. I also have a stance on abortion, and can cite studies backing up that stance. That in no way makes me biased on the topic.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

Antipode said:


> That'd be why you said it, and why I said what I said.


I'm glad we cleared that up. :tongue:


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

Chiaroscuro said:


> What if he had a genetic predisposition for schizophrenia and he ruined his mental health? What if he got an arrhythmia due to weed use, which led to a heart attack or congestive heart failure? What if he developed COPD? Don't be ignorant. There are health consequences.


Understood. I would have preferred a specific response from William I am. There are health consequences to getting out of bed; hell, there are consequences to _getting into_ bed.


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## William I am (May 20, 2011)

tanstaafl28 said:


> What could you have possibly done besides mellow you out and give you the munchies?


I became psychologically dependent on it, it wrecked my motivation, made it hard to remember how to spell some words, made me itchy, made me unable to get comfortable, made me unable to sleep, made me very self-critical and negative all but a few times out of the hundreds of times I smoked.

Every drug affects every person differently.

Mushrooms were fabulous for me. But for my old roommate, they were horrible. He "Died a thousand deaths looking himself in the eye in the bathroom mirror". I laughed like a madman and saw beautiful iridescent colors over the stars of and visions, with only a bad portion of the trip where my friend was intentionally messing with me. 

It all depends on the person.


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## B3LIAL (Dec 21, 2013)

Chiaroscuro said:


> @B3LIAL @Ksilva
> Just some studies to check out
> 
> Marijuana use linked to heart problems – The Chart - CNN.com Blogs
> ...


Marijuana linked to this, Marijuana linked to that. Nothing proven, just biased sources looking for tit bits to throw on their side. You can't honestly be asking me to take you seriously when shoving sites like CNN and fucking Aljazeera in my face? They are biased as shit! 

And looking at the study in that CNN link, they failed to give any other details about the patients involved! They just stated, here's a bunch of reports from people who have heart problems who have also smoked Marijuana, and automatically assuming that Marijuana was the main reason why they have heart problems! 

Sorry, but it's not enough to just pick out someone with a heart problem, and claim that because they've smoked weed that it contributed significantly to the heart problem.

Is this a reason to ban Marijuana? No. I would go into more detail responding to what you're saying, but you don't even bother responding to the points that I make anyway. You just completely ignored my long post filled with paragraphs retorting to what you said.


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## William I am (May 20, 2011)

tanstaafl28 said:


> What could you have possibly done besides mellow you out and give you the munchies?


Well, for one, I wound up dependent on it and had a really hard time not smoking when it was in my better interest to not smoke. At times, that led to me breaking plans with people to smoke the night before and being too hungover the next day to show up anywhere before 3pm.
The rest of it was that it basically does the opposite to me that people say it does for them - except the munchies 
When I'd smoke, the first 20 minutes would be great. Then the next 6-12 hours would be awful. I'd get very uncomfortable in my own skin. Every body position was uncomfortable, sometimes I would get itchy. No matter what, I couldn't get comfortable enough to sleep, and wound up tossing and turning all night. 

Between smoking and going to sleep, I would get into a very very self-critical and negative mental state where I would obsess over all the things I'd "done wrong" and regretted for hours. And yet I kept smoking for 2 years despite this because once in a great while, it would be a good trip. I can count on one hand the times I had fun being high.

I thought I posted this last night, but my pc crashed out and I thought it had posted.


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## something987 (Jul 20, 2014)

B3LIAL said:


> Marijuana linked to this, Marijuana linked to that. Nothing proven, just biased sources looking for tit bits to throw on their side. You can't honestly be asking me to take you seriously when shoving sites like CNN and fucking Aljazeera in my face? They are biased as shit!
> 
> And looking at the study in that CNN link, they failed to give any other details about the patients involved! They just stated, here's a bunch of reports from people who have heart problems who have also smoked Marijuana, and automatically assuming that Marijuana was the main reason why they have heart problems!
> 
> ...


I have been trying to reason with him too, nothing seems to get through. I wish people would be willing to debate without feeling personally attacked. Very frustrating when I put in a lot of effort to support my point and get an ad hominem in return.


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## something987 (Jul 20, 2014)

@William I am, are you sure you don't have an underlying condition? Or are you on other medications? This sounds somewhat like an anxiety disorder likely related to low GABA levels. Marijuana can boost GABA but leads to an overall lowering of GABA in the body. It also raises cortisol which is the stress hormone. If you're prone to physical effects of stress, marijuana can sometimes do the opposite of what it should.


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## William I am (May 20, 2011)

Ksilva said:


> @_William I am_, are you sure you don't have an underlying condition? Or are you on other medications? This sounds somewhat like an anxiety disorder likely related to low GABA levels. Marijuana can boost GABA but leads to an overall lowering of GABA in the body. It also raises cortisol which is the stress hormone. If you're prone to physical effects of stress, marijuana can sometimes do the opposite of what it should.


I do have underlying conditions (PTSD and social anxiety).

Those are both things that are supposedly helped by marijuana. 

The problem here is that you think there's a definite "should". It's unpredictable person to person and time to time. The problem I have with weed proponents is that they minimize and dismiss negative effects of the drug as not being the way pot "should" work on everyone. 

The same works for alcohol - some people it makes angry, fighty, belligerent, sad, happy, horny, hungry, creative, optimistic, and any number of other things. You can't pick and choose some of those as "should" and others as "should not". They are all possible effects from any drug.


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## something987 (Jul 20, 2014)

William I am said:


> I do have underlying conditions (PTSD and social anxiety).
> 
> Those are both things that are supposedly helped by marijuana.
> 
> ...


How did I know I would get in trouble for using that word.

I mean should in the sense that that is what it is used for medicinally. Just like Valium should make you less anxious, but for some people it makes them more. Antidepressants should make you less depressed, for some they make people suicidal. No kidding, everyone is affected differently by everything. I thought this was just a given. "Should" is the right term in the context I was referring to.

Please don't type me as just another weed proponent. I see it as a medical treatment like anything else.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

William I am said:


> Well, for one, I wound up dependent on it and had a really hard time not smoking when it was in my better interest to not smoke. At times, that led to me breaking plans with people to smoke the night before and being too hungover the next day to show up anywhere before 3pm.
> The rest of it was that it basically does the opposite to me that people say it does for them - except the munchies
> When I'd smoke, the first 20 minutes would be great. Then the next 6-12 hours would be awful. I'd get very uncomfortable in my own skin. Every body position was uncomfortable, sometimes I would get itchy. No matter what, I couldn't get comfortable enough to sleep, and wound up tossing and turning all night.
> 
> ...


Thanks for sharing. Most negative experiences with marijuana are blown out of proportion, or used as some sort of object lesson by the anti-drug folks. To hear a raw story of someone who found out the hard way that it just wasn't for them is useful. I fully acknowledge that marijuana is not for everyone. I've experienced moments of paranoia and that "uncomfortable in my own skin" sensation, but these side-effects have not prevented me from enjoying the overall benefits. 

Since you shared your experiences, I thought I'd give you a little bit of mine. I'm not trying to convince you of anything. If you feel you are better off without it, then I suggest you continue I just want you to know that it can be used for something positive: 

I have what I consider to be a legitimate use for marijuana. I have ADHD and depression. I do take pharmaceuticals on a daily basis to help me manage my symptoms, but those feel like the tools I need to deal with the outside world, they don't address my inside world. About once a week, I sit out in my back yard, smoke a joint, listen to my iPod, write in my notebook, and look up at the stars. I try to get in touch with my inner self, explore things I might not think to deal with in the every day, and I enjoy the "change of frequency." I focus on whatever issues I may have encountered during the week, and I write poetry, treatises, and stream-of-consciousness stuff. I let it all hang out. The next day, I feel better.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

William I am said:


> I became psychologically dependent on it, it wrecked my motivation, made it hard to remember how to spell some words, made me itchy, made me unable to get comfortable, made me unable to sleep, made me very self-critical and negative all but a few times out of the hundreds of times I smoked.
> 
> Every drug affects every person differently.
> 
> ...


It appears you did post at 2:11 AM. I posted my response in the other one.


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## JTHearts (Aug 6, 2013)

tanstaafl28 said:


> Spite and vindictiveness for not being allowed to join in their "reindeer games" is not exactly nice either. Your level of moral inflexibility and social ineptitude would seem to me to indicate that, despite being extremely intelligent, your social and emotional development are lagging behind. I would recommend you seek some assistance in this area.


I know my social and emotional development are lagging behind, I seriously perceive the world the way a 6 year old does. A doctor actually told me that. But that doesn't mean that I can't be right in being upset that I'm not included by everyone else.


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## intp_gurl (Mar 8, 2014)

I used to think pot was sooooo bad, because it was illegal. Now I've grown up.


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## ai.tran.75 (Feb 26, 2014)

Enfp
I don't think teenager should be smoking pot but if you're an adult who cares ? It's better than alcohol . I haven't tried it yet bc it's not my thing but I have nothing against it - heck of I'm ever in Amsterdam I'll smoke .



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

john.thomas said:


> I know my social and emotional development are lagging behind, I seriously perceive the world the way a 6 year old does. A doctor actually told me that. But that doesn't mean that I can't be right in being upset that I'm not included by everyone else.


We all have our struggles in life, J.T. Those people you look at and don't understand are trying to understand themselves too. I believe we all do the best we can with what we have. We stumble, we fall, we make mistakes. The most important thing I have learned in 44 years is to get back up, dust ourselves off, and learn from our mistakes; and try not to make the same ones twice.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

ai.tran.75 said:


> Enfp
> I don't think teenager should be smoking pot but if you're an adult who cares ? It's better than alcohol . I haven't tried it yet bc it's not my thing but I have nothing against it - heck of I'm ever in Amsterdam I'll smoke .
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



If you should ever go to Amsterdam, let me know. I have been there. I would be happy to advise you.


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## Pancreatic Pandora (Aug 16, 2013)

If you smoke it ocassionally it is harmless. Otherwise, it can create addiction which brings up all its negative side-effects. Yet alcohol and smoking do the same thing and they are not illegal. Inconsistent? Yes. Some people suggest that making weed legal opens up the door for smokers to try other, more dangerous, drugs and they might be right but, at the same time, it creates that kind of inconsistency and arbitrariness in the system that favours the lucky ones who naturally fit into it.


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## Doc Dangerstein (Mar 8, 2013)

Many people who take hard drugs also smoke marijuana People who smoke marijuana also seldom take hard drugs. Those who do are accounted for in the opening statement. To conclude that marijuana is a gateway drug is irrational because people who started with marijuana because people who take a multitude of drugs are attracted to the idea of taking drugs. Marijuana just happens to be the most available and is often the first drug people take after cigarettes and alcohol. Smoking pot does NOT lead a person to shooting smack behind the dumpster with a shared needle. Correlation is not causation ... or something like that.

edit ... if you DO get a chance to go to Holland. Go, and enjoy the architecture, check you Hauge, the museums. You can light one any day. That and if you want to keep your lungs nice and pink there's also pot-cookies/brownies.


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## Alex Chan (Jun 17, 2014)

don't do it. nononononononnonononono.

it is so illogical that I might throw up.


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## something987 (Jul 20, 2014)

Typical INTP :kitteh:


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## Lexicon Devil (Mar 14, 2014)




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## intp_gurl (Mar 8, 2014)

The worst that could happen is you end up liking it and having to support a new habit. Happens to people who drink and smoke cigarettes too.

but cigarettes will kill you.


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## William I am (May 20, 2011)

I should probably add in that I'm all for legalization (of all drugs) if only to stop the violence and exploitation of indigenous people in other countries. Kill the cartels by undercutting their prices. And stop ruining peoples lives for a few grams of weed.


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## JTHearts (Aug 6, 2013)

intp_gurl said:


> The worst that could happen is you end up liking it and having to support a new habit. Happens to people who drink and smoke cigarettes too.
> 
> but cigarettes will kill you.


So will marijuana!!!! Smoking it can probably give you lung cancer too

And I much prefer my prescription drugs that always make me feel better by "turning me into a zombie" (I don't really think they do that) than using marijuana and having to actually deal with the reality of my life when I'm not smoking marijuana.


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## something987 (Jul 20, 2014)

john.thomas said:


> So will marijuana!!!! Smoking it can probably give you lung cancer too
> 
> And I much prefer my prescription drugs that always make me feel better by "turning me into a zombie" (I don't really think they do that) than using marijuana and having to actually deal with the reality of my life when I'm not smoking marijuana.


You've got to be kidding.

Marijuana has never, ever, ever killed anyone. That's a pretty well established fact. It also does not give you a higher risk of cancer, as I pointed out in another comment with a study published by an international cancer journal just last month.

Your lack of logic astounds me...


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## JTHearts (Aug 6, 2013)

Ksilva said:


> You've got to be kidding.
> 
> Marijuana has never, ever, ever killed anyone. That's a pretty well established fact. It also does not give you a higher risk of cancer, as I pointed out in another comment with a study published by an international cancer journal just last month.
> 
> Your lack of logic astounds me...


You can't tell me that pumping all those fumes into your body does nothing at all except make you feel good. Anyone who cares about their health shouldn't smoke marijuana.

And yeah, I know my many prescription meds are probably slowly killing me, but I don't care. They make me feel better than marijuana ever would. It's not like I could get any marijuana anyway, I know the first time I tried I would get caught and go to jail.


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## something987 (Jul 20, 2014)

I am telling you though, and so are the scientific studies I posted a few pages back.

I'm sorry that you feel you don't fit in. Being a teenager who doesn't fit in is hard and I can understand why you would be resentful of those who do fit in, along with everything that they associate with. Your ideas are irrational, though, and you are using your feelings to rule your common sense. Being spiteful is not the answer. There are many people on this forum who are willing to talk if you so choose. You're not terrible, and you don't deserve to go to jail. I think there might be some channeling of self hatred onto others going on. The MBTI is a great way of finding your strengths and figuring out what makes you happy, what you could succeed at. Try to use this to your advantage. Find something you're good at and channel all your frustration into something awesome. If you want, you can message me to talk if you don't feel comfortable posting on the forum. People want to help you. Even though it might not seem that way, it's true.


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## Flaming Bassoon (Feb 15, 2013)

To add to @_cremefraiche_ 's comment, I think it's annoying when anyone who does intoxicants of any sort is like "Dude, I got so drunk/high/whatever" and keeps talking about it over and over again, but otherwise I don't care. Alcohol I personally think is the worst because it's the most widespread and accepted drug.

My dad has anxiety and smokes weed and I honestly feel more comfortable with him medicating in that way than other drugs, although the smell is noxious, but at least more ephemeral than nasty cigarette stench.


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## Chiaroscuro (Jul 10, 2012)

Ksilva said:


> I am telling you though, and so are the scientific studies I posted a few pages back.
> 
> I'm sorry that you feel you don't fit in. Being a teenager who doesn't fit in is hard and I can understand why you would be resentful of those who do fit in, along with everything that they associate with. Your ideas are irrational, though, and you are using your feelings to rule your common sense. Being spiteful is not the answer. There are many people on this forum who are willing to talk if you so choose. You're not terrible, and you don't deserve to go to jail. I think there might be some channeling of self hatred onto others going on. The MBTI is a great way of finding your strengths and figuring out what makes you happy, what you could succeed at. Try to use this to your advantage. Find something you're good at and channel all your frustration into something awesome. If you want, you can message me to talk if you don't feel comfortable posting on the forum. People want to help you. Even though it might not seem that way, it's true.


You go from telling him that his ideas on pot are irrational, to life advice? Anyone can just as easily say that your ideas on pot are irrational. I would be more in favor of legalization had I not seen first hand how people ruin their lives becoming addicted to pot. It's more prevalent than alcoholism considering the amount of users.


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## Lexicon Devil (Mar 14, 2014)




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## Sporadic Aura (Sep 13, 2009)

stiletto said:


> I won't be defending my position, but my opinion of recreational weed users (and all smokers in fact) are, will be, and has always been that they are all idiots, no exceptions.


Oh man, this opinion is hilariously idiotic.


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## Pancreatic Pandora (Aug 16, 2013)

stiletto said:


> That's the point.


So you are aware that your opinion is prejudiced and don't care? Whatever floats your boat...


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## Mr inappropriate (Dec 17, 2013)

Wh1zkey said:


> No you're not. You insulted so many people by calling them lack of brains. That's the same thing as shit for brains. WAy to stay civil by covering it up with "lack of brains." What a douche. :angry: Chill and _relax._ Go get high.


Ooo i was soo mean. *cries*

Dont need drugzz though, i get high from insulting people and calling out on their bs.


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## Chiaroscuro (Jul 10, 2012)

Ksilva said:


> Yeah, I do, because I understand he is a person. How are my ideas irrational? Because you don't like them? I've backed up all of my points with evidence, but leave it to an INTJ to stick to their opinion no matter what.


I cited some studies, and you replied "Those are X, Y and Z studies so they are irrelevant." ENFPs and their (insert MBTI stereotype here).


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## something987 (Jul 20, 2014)

crashbandicoot said:


> I think its pretty retarded that people can believe weed didn't kill anyone, like you can really believe them ? Such lack of brains. :mellow:
> 
> I dont really mind weed being legalized if its also legalized to put them down, if people are causing trouble under its influence, just like alcoholic abusers.



You've gotta be kidding, right? You're calling people retarded for citing a fact? Oh, the irony, it's killing me...please, someone rescue me


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## something987 (Jul 20, 2014)

Chiaroscuro said:


> I cited some studies, and you replied "Those are X, Y and Z studies so they are irrelevant." ENFPs and their (insert MBTI stereotype here).


Nice straw man. Care to try again?

I spent a paragraph explaining the flaws in each of them in depth. I'm sorry you're upset that you can't come up with a valid rebuttal, other than calling me wrong.


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## Blazy (Oct 30, 2010)

crashbandicoot said:


> Ooo i was soo mean. *cries*
> 
> Dont need drugzz though, i get high from insulting people and calling out on their bs.


Get high then insult people, better high, my friend. win


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## Chiaroscuro (Jul 10, 2012)

Ksilva said:


> Nice straw man. Care to try again?
> 
> I spent a paragraph explaining the flaws in each of them in depth. I'm sorry you're upset that you can't come up with a valid rebuttal, other than calling me wrong.


I appreciate your concern, genius, but I'm far from upset. I have no desire to respond to your points which were written in such a narrow-minded fashion.You are probably in your early twenties, no more. Do you have any idea how marijuana use affects the developing brain? It's been shown to lower IQ. Moderate to heavy users always have it in their bloodstream as well which causes high blood pressure. Now, if your drug addled brain really has the audacity to point out some supposed flaws in studies and call that a conclusive argument I have news for you. Marijuana will stay illegal as long as there are delusional people such as yourself standing in its' defense. Make your own study. Bring your own evidence to the table. I suppose you are puffing it, too stoned to contribute anything tangible? Where's your proof on those studies then? 

This is you: "Weed can cause high blood pressure and heart problems, lung problems, and brain dysfunction? LOL no dude I'm alive! Those studies are fake!"

I definitely want it to be legal for my doctors, lawyers, dentist, teachers and all to be burned out stoners. "Damn... that looks like a bone tumor, man. Here' I'll spot you an eighth."


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## Derpin (Jun 20, 2014)

Open yourself up to new experiences, but just don't overindulge.


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## Syvelocin (Apr 4, 2014)

All of my political stances can be summed up as such: everyone do whatever they want as long as you're not hurting others. I don't care either way (although I'd be open to it) but every time I encounter someone collecting signatures petitioning for the legalization I always sign. But I also live in an insanely 420-friendly area. Personally, I find it idiotic that people are fussing about marijuana and cigarettes are still legal. Not that they should be, but they're the real evil here.


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## Doc Dangerstein (Mar 8, 2013)

Decriminalization of marijuana is not an invitation to smoke. It's respecting a person's choice as to how they treat their body. There are numerous other substances that are perfectly unhealthy and perfectly legal. The question we should be asking ourselves is whether a person should be arrested and tried for smoking a joint. Do these people honestly deserve to be in jail and have criminal records? Considering that the workings of the judicial system cost money would it make more economic and ethical sense to put someone who's known to be addict in rehab? 

... side note, the studies to look questionable considering they are all taken from conservative media. I would suggest medical journals, and preferably from a multitude of sources, and a multitude of countries considering the position of the American government. And, doctors have access to a smorgasbord of drugs. They're permitted to prescribe opiates, amphetamines and to use cocaine as an anaesthetic solution in surgical practice. Their drugs are far more exciting than boring old weed, and I don't many doctors shooting speedballs.


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## Harizu (Apr 27, 2014)

I have no problem with it. 
I actually am ok with all drugs being legalized, because most drug users are just young people who want to look "kool1!!1!!" and ruin their lives because of that. If they were legalized, using drugs would not be "edgy" anymore and many less people would use it. This, at least, happened in Holland when they lagalized drugs here.
That being said, marijuana is much less dangerous than many other drugs because it gives you no addiction. It can also be used for medical purposes. In my family we use it for medical purposes (we don't smoke it; we take it in drops).


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## piscesfish (Nov 30, 2013)

I believe this answer more stems from my enneagram 1 type and less so my MBTI type, but here goes:

I am personally against any substance that is consumed in recreation yet is truly harmful to you. Marijuana, cigarettes, alcohol are all included. I think it is irresponsible to use any substance such as these and that people should have better self discipline and avoid them.


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## Mr inappropriate (Dec 17, 2013)

I find it so cute that people think weed is illegal because individual's health concerns.

Laws aren't about what you do to yourself. They exist to prevent public disturbance.


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## mikan (May 25, 2014)

Eckis said:


> Do we not have a responsibility as a society to try and inform people about the _right_ way of doing things? (ie: Not doing drugs) Not only do we have this responsibility on a personal level, but what happens when that person makes poor decisions under the influence of their drug of choice (driving under the influence of marijuana or alcohol) and hurt others? What happens when they are hospitalized because of their addiction and are now a burden (I hate to use that term, but when it is self-inflicted that is the most accurate way to describe them) on the rest of us?
> 
> Certainly people have the freedom to do what they want . . to an extent. Unfortunately some people make stupid or just plain wrong decisions, but they are not the only ones who end up paying for that in the end. Keeping drugs like marijuana illegal is our responsibility as a society. Those who choose to break the law should be punished for it.


No we do not need to have a responsibility over people’s decisions.
There isn't a person who doesn't know the bad consequences of smoking cigs or drug use. They chose to do it while knowing it has side effects and they are to be punished if anything out of hand happens (crimes, driving under alcohol), so I guess it’s better to do it at home. What is stopping them? Nothing. I don’t think anyone has the right to stop them; it’s their life, their choice. It’s like taking one’s own life out of sheer will, you can’t interfere.
Personally I think drugs are great only if you know how to use them. Some people find their lives too boring or awful, so yeah. Drugs are not completely bad like society wants you to think.
But then again, how SJ of you.


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## Velocity (Dec 8, 2013)

I have nothing against the drug itself.
Smoked alot in my younger days, but when I got busted I decided to stop.

What I mind though is people who are in the honeymoon phase with Cannabis and find it difficult to stay rational and objective when they argue for a legalization.


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## telepariah (Jun 20, 2011)

I am glad and proud to live where marijuana is legal. People who have never experienced it have no idea what they are talking about. People who are smokestacks have no idea how to use it. People who are all worried about what other people do in the privacy of their own lives are hypocrites who would definitely not appreciate somebody else judging them for things they do in private. This is not any different from homophobic people who can't stop thinking about how other people have sex with the person they love. They ought to mind their own business.

I am a daily user. I use it because it is the only thing I have found that both helps me handle the chronic pain in my head caused by traumatic nerve damage that also allows me to function in society. The key is in how to use it. If you take small doses you don't get so high that you can't function, but its positive effects on the nervous system are still present and can make a huge difference in quality of life for somebody suffering from a wide range of health conditions. Who the fuck is anybody to tell me that I can not use this plant that grows naturally to help me be able to get through the day with severe chronic pain? I don't get up in their face to tell them that their faith in God or their blind trust of authority is wrong. Some people might, but I am not one. Live and let live. I am not hurting a single soul by consuming this plant as part of my daily nourishment. I buy it in a legal and regulated market and I pay taxes on it that benefit education where I live. I don't get wasted on it and crash my car into anything. I live my life the best I can, trying to mitigate the suffering of trigeminal neuralgia and all its associated impacts on my quality of life by using what I have found works best for me and has the fewest negative side effects. I use it recreationally too, but never to get so high I can't function. 

Until you have walked in my shoes and know what it is like to live with the most painful condition known, you have no moral authority to tell me what I am doing is wrong. If you lived with the kind of pain that I deal with 24/7/365 I doubt you would have been able to accomplish what I have and continue to be able to do using any prescription drug you might list. Nor would you be so judgemental about something that would help you live with this kind of pain... not if you experienced it yourself. So get off your self-righteous high (pun intended) horse and try to grasp the reality that the world is not as simple a place as you wish it to be. If you don't want to try it, fine. But please refrain from judging something you know nothing about and the people who choose to use it.

I am traveling right now in a place where it is not legal. So respecting those laws and not wanting to cause more problems that I don't want to experience, I am not in possession of any weed. Do I need it? No. Am I as productive as if I were able to access it? No. Am I craving it or going through withdrawal? No. I am dealing with my condition using the tools available to me. When I return home I will have one more tool that is very helpful. And as I said at the start, I am grateful and proud to live in a state where our citizens have changed the constitution to allow me the freedom to choose how to live my life with regard to this useful plant.

By the way, that 1/8 of an ounce that I bought for $55 including tax? That will last me at least three months. That is pennies a day for something that does not affect anybody else.


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## mikan (May 25, 2014)

telepariah said:


> I am glad and proud to live where marijuana is legal. People who have never experienced it have no idea what they are talking about. People who are smokestacks have no idea how to use it. People who are all worried about what other people do in the privacy of their own lives are hypocrites who would definitely not appreciate somebody else judging them for things they do in private. This is not any different from homophobic people who can't stop thinking about how other people have sex with the person they love. They ought to mind their own business.
> 
> I am a daily user. I use it because it is the only thing I have found that both helps me handle the chronic pain in my head caused by traumatic nerve damage that also allows me to function in society. The key is in how to use it. If you take small doses you don't get so high that you can't function, but its positive effects on the nervous system are still present and can make a huge difference in quality of life for somebody suffering from a wide range of health conditions. Who the fuck is anybody to tell me that I can not use this plant that grows naturally to help me be able to get through the day with severe chronic pain? I don't get up in their face to tell them that their faith in God or their blind trust of authority is wrong. Some people might, but I am not one. Live and let live. I am not hurting a single soul by consuming this plant as part of my daily nourishment. I buy it in a legal and regulated market and I pay taxes on it that benefit education where I live. I don't get wasted on it and crash my car into anything. I live my life the best I can, trying to mitigate the suffering of trigeminal neuralgia and all its associated impacts on my quality of life by using what I have found works best for me and has the fewest negative side effects. I use it recreationally too, but never to get so high I can't function.
> 
> Until you have walked in my shoes and know what it is like to live with the most painful condition known, you have no moral authority to tell me what I am doing is wrong. If you lived with the kind of pain that I deal with 24/7/365 I doubt you would have been able to accomplish what I have and continue to be able to do using any prescription drug you might list. Nor would you be so judgemental about something that would help you live with this kind of pain... not if you experienced it yourself. So get off your self-righteous high (pun intended) horse and try to grasp the reality that the world is not as simple a place as you wish it to be. If you don't want to try it, fine. But please refrain from judging something you know nothing about and the people who choose to use it.


^Respect to this user, well said.


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## something987 (Jul 20, 2014)

Chiaroscuro said:


> I appreciate your concern, genius, but I'm far from upset. I have no desire to respond to your points which were written in such a narrow-minded fashion.You are probably in your early twenties, no more. Do you have any idea how marijuana use affects the developing brain? It's been shown to lower IQ. Moderate to heavy users always have it in their bloodstream as well which causes high blood pressure. Now, if your drug addled brain really has the audacity to point out some supposed flaws in studies and call that a conclusive argument I have news for you. Marijuana will stay illegal as long as there are delusional people such as yourself standing in its' defense. Make your own study. Bring your own evidence to the table. I suppose you are puffing it, too stoned to contribute anything tangible? Where's your proof on those studies then?
> 
> This is you: "Weed can cause high blood pressure and heart problems, lung problems, and brain dysfunction? LOL no dude I'm alive! Those studies are fake!"
> 
> I definitely want it to be legal for my doctors, lawyers, dentist, teachers and all to be burned out stoners. "Damn... that looks like a bone tumor, man. Here' I'll spot you an eighth."


You know what? Go to hell. I don't use marijuana. I said that already. I started this debate in a civil fashion, and you're just acting like an asshole. Great, marijuana make you dumber if you overuse it, and guess what, so does drinking, big surprise. I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about the people who use it medically, but you are so narrow minded that that's completely flying over your head. How fun it must be to be a keyboard warrior and call people delusional in spite of all evidence to the contrary. You've yet to show any studies to counter mine, only hostile ad hominem attacks, so here is mine it you - it's not worth arguing with a troll. Your last "points" point to that. I'd put your age at about fifteen.


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## Chiaroscuro (Jul 10, 2012)

Ksilva said:


> You know what? Go to hell. I don't use marijuana. I said that already. I started this debate in a civil fashion, and you're just acting like an asshole. Great, marijuana make you dumber if you overuse it, and guess what, so does drinking, big surprise. I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about the people who use it medically, but you are so narrow minded that that's completely flying over your head. How fun it must be to be a keyboard warrior and call people delusional in spite of all evidence to the contrary. You've yet to show any studies to counter mine, only hostile ad hominem attacks, so here is mine it you - it's not worth arguing with a troll. Your last "points" point to that. I'd put your age at about fifteen.


Well if you read my posts a little more closely you would have seen that I said I'm in favor of medical. Always resorting to the personal attacks I see, I guess you really don't have any understanding of debate. Sad to see you got offended once again. Just try not to lash out at people.


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## Van Meter (Sep 28, 2012)

B3LIAL said:


> It's not as bad as alcohol to the consumer or the people around them, but you're right about the fact that it can consume people, but the drug itself isn't really to blame for this. People discover it and it becomes a habit, it's not the same as being an alcoholic because you can't just give up Alcohol, you can give up weed with will power. Alcohol and other drugs require far more councelling because of physical addiction.
> 
> You can die if you stop taking them immediately or suffer very serious health issues. Weed is a lot more about the mind, but, from people I've asked, it's just missing the high that gets you, and being used to being high all the time makes it difficult to come back to consistent periods of not being high, as well as being able to use the drug to numb other problems you might have.
> 
> ...


That's more or less what I expected you to say. "the weed cannot be to blame at all for this" Right... You make it out to be as if Marijuana possesses little to no addictive properties, and possesses no potential to supersede willpower or clarity. I have heard people even compare marijuana to sugar. You're downplaying it dude, it isn't realistic. I'm not even arguing for it to be illegal, I just get tired of the same slogans that people use. "Its not any fault of marijuana, its just that degenerate's fault" among countless others. The standards applied to other drugs most surely can't be applicable to marijuana... Heavens no



Edit side note: Btw, a lot of people quit alcohol. I don't know where you got the idea that people don't simply quit alcohol. Twelve step programs probably put that idea into everyone. The idea that former alcoholics are merely "dry drunks". Pot has withdrawal symptoms of its own, not life threatening but still significant. Some report being unable to sleep, anxiety, agitation, lack of appetite. Why go through two or three days of that when you can get high again? Same freaking thing as any other drug. Whenever I quit a long time ago after two months of regular use, I felt as if I lost a best friend and it took about a month before anything seemed fun or fulfilling again. There's all of these things that I know through experience to know that a lot of pro pot arguments are superficial at best, false at worst. Some are correct though. What am I doing... back to work.


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## B3LIAL (Dec 21, 2013)

Van Meter said:


> That's more or less what I expected you to say. "the weed cannot be to blame at all for this" Right... You make it out to be as if Marijuana possesses little to no addictive properties, and possesses no potential to supersede willpower or clarity. I have heard people even compare marijuana to sugar. You're downplaying it dude, it isn't realistic. I'm not even arguing for it to be illegal, I just get tired of the same slogans that people use. "Its not any fault of marijuana, its just that degenerate's fault" among countless others. The standards applied to other drugs most surely can't be applicable to marijuana... Heavens no


Sarcasm gives me a boner.

It does have qualities that lead it to being a hard habit to kick and it can be part of a downward spiral, but from most of my experiences with people and the stories I've heard of pot heads, most of them started using it frequently to counter a pre-existing condition that they shouldn't have used it for in the first place. They become used to being able to use marijuana for a quick fix to a big problem, and they can't stop taking it.

That's THEIR fault. They should have gotten help before hand.

Many people start smoking it out of boredom, and it becomes a habit of smoking whenever there's nothing else to do, rather than going out and finding something more productive to do.

Marijuana is a tempting quick an easy high, and it has qualities about it that can lead people astray, but for the most part it cannot be blamed for people misuing it.

True, it can worsen things about a person based on their personal attributes/genetics, and you'd be right in saying that certain people and weed shouldn't be together.

But you can't convince me that it's as bad as Alcohol, because the fact that it's not physically addictive, you can't overdose or die from it, and it doesn't lead you to harming others to nearly the same extreme, is more than enough to determine that it's not even in the same fucking ballpark or sport as alcohol.

Weed has it's con's, most definitely. It's not innocent. But to compare it alcohol is just plain stupid.


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## Wild (Jul 14, 2014)

This topic is kinda old but I don't care because I like my opinion on it.

I've never been one for alcohol/cigarettes/drugs of any kind, but I think it should be legalized. I mean, first off, the US has an incredible amount of people incarcerated (I think more than any other country), which costs a shitload of money for taxpayers. Why should we be spending money keeping weed-smokers in jail when it's no worse for you than alcohol or cigarettes? Yes, it's a gateway drug, but so is alcohol. We could legalize it and be MAKING money off of the sales, rather than having to flush it down the toilet chasing people for doing a harmless drug.

Frankly, I think most people against legalization either don't know that much about it or aren't being realistic.


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## Lucky Luciano (Nov 28, 2013)

well in my experience it is not so great dunno whats the fuss about, I remember my first time I had to smoke three joints until I got high and that was some high quality stuff, I just became passive and very thirsty, the next time I took hits from the bong until I passed out but effects were the same.


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## William I am (May 20, 2011)

B3LIAL said:


> Sarcasm gives me a boner.
> 
> It does have qualities that lead it to being a hard habit to kick and it can be part of a downward spiral, but from most of my experiences with people and the stories I've heard of pot heads, most of them started using it frequently to counter a pre-existing condition that they shouldn't have used it for in the first place. They become used to being able to use marijuana for a quick fix to a big problem, and they can't stop taking it.
> 
> ...


Wow. You could say the same thing about every other drug used.

It's on the same level, if not worse than alcohol, if you ask me. 
True, you won't die if you OD on pot, but you can psychologically scar yourself the same as mushrooms or acid.


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## stargazing grasshopper (Oct 25, 2013)

Metal Fish said:


> I used to be super against it because all the anti drug propaganda in school, then my friends starting doing it so I looked it up. I still didn't start smoking or drinking until I was about 21, because I wanted my brain to get about finished devolping before I started messing with it.
> 
> And to all those people saying it SHOULD be illegal and will go out of their way to stop people, maybe consider minding your own business? I ain't hurting anybody.


I smoked a little weed during my last year of high school, mostly to fit in while I was hanging out but weed didn't do much of anything for me. I wasn't judgmental of "Pot Heads" then nor am I now, but if you're going to completely legalize weed it should be regulated very similar to alcohol.

I don't care whether weed is as addictive or more addictive than alcohol, but the general public should be made aware of all the factual information prior to legalization. Informed consent!
I'll give you my vote to legalize weed on par with alcohol, but with the stipulation that the general public must be educated prior to legalization & tough shit for those with addictive personalities that become enslaved to weed. Such addictive individuals can go join a 12 step program on their own dime, because similar to alcohol they're not entitled to government assistance (Welfare/SSDI check) due to their addiction. 

Bottom line: The masses make an informed decision & deal with whatever the consequences resulting from their choice.
Meaning that if an individual becomes an addict, turns to crime to feed the addiction & gets shot/killed while robbing an armed individual at an ATM machine, too fking bad. IMHO that's merely a case of weeding the weak from the herd. Darwinism in action!


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## something987 (Jul 20, 2014)

Van Meter said:


> Edit side note: Btw, a lot of people quit alcohol. I don't know where you got the idea that people don't simply quit alcohol. Twelve step programs probably put that idea into everyone. The idea that former alcoholics are merely "dry drunks". Pot has withdrawal symptoms of its own, not life threatening but still significant. Some report being unable to sleep, anxiety, agitation, lack of appetite. Why go through two or three days of that when you can get high again? Same freaking thing as any other drug. Whenever I quit a long time ago after two months of regular use, I felt as if I lost a best friend and it took about a month before anything seemed fun or fulfilling again. There's all of these things that I know through experience to know that a lot of pro pot arguments are superficial at best, false at worst. Some are correct though. What am I doing... back to work.


The physical marijuana "withdrawal" symptoms are almost laughable compared to heavy alcohol use, or even long term psych drug use for that matter. Heavy mj users would have the same symptoms quitting coffee. It is most certainly _not_ the same as any other drug. The fact that you can 1) get a seizure and 2) die from stopping alcohol should make it patently obvious that alcohol is more harmful.


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## B3LIAL (Dec 21, 2013)

William I am said:


> Wow. You could say the same thing about every other drug used.
> 
> It's on the same level, if not worse than alcohol, if you ask me.
> True, you won't die if you OD on pot, but you can psychologically scar yourself the same as mushrooms or acid.


You missed the point. The point is people who cannot give up weed are those who use it for the wrong reasons. For escape from some other problems.

With other drugs there's that too, but also many other reasons behind it such as withdrawal symptoms.

With weed, it's mainly people having to learn to deal with their issues without the weed. With other drugs, it's having to do that too, but also having to go through a stage where they have to deal with withdrawal symptoms, and often have to be careful about how quickly they can give the drug up because giving it up too quickly can result in physical harm.

It's not the same with weed. If a pot head gives up weed instantly, he/she will have to deal with whatever problems they have head on, and it will appear shocking to them at first because they were so used to just lighting up and feeling good, but now they are constantly away from the high, and forgot what it was like and it's shocking to them. It can be too much for them.

But this isn't weed's fault here, this is him/her using weed for all the wrong reasons. You can experience the same thing with alcohol, but alcohol will also come with more baggage, such as withdrawal symptoms, and other physical conditions!

Weed doesn't psychologically scar anyone. There was a cut there before hand, and they should have gone to the doctor to get it sewn up, but they found that too much work, so they smoked weed to numb the pain and forget about the cut, and while they did it opened up further and further, and became an even bigger problem.

The fault wasn't the weed, it was the user. You can do the same thing above with Alcohol, but with alcohol you'll have the opened wound and also the withdrawal symptoms to deal with, as well as, perhaps, the people the alcohol lead you to hurt while you were all liquored up. You can blame the alcohol, to a certain extent, for this. You can say it was the alcohol's properties that have become a problem. Weed didn't do anything to your body or your mind but numb it so you couldn't face the pain yourself, which many things can do.

Alcohol added extra problems on top of that. Weed doesn't do this. Weed was just the hand that blocked your sight when shit was going on, and you can't blame your hand for stopping you from missing the important things, it was you who controlled the hand. Alcohol was your other hand, but it had bacteria on it that gave you a disease, and you could have washed your hand, but it's not entirely your doing. You need extra help now because the hand contained extra problems.


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## William I am (May 20, 2011)

B3LIAL said:


> You missed the point. The point is people who cannot give up weed are those who use it for the wrong reasons. For escape from some other problems.
> 
> With other drugs there's that too, but also many other reasons behind it such as withdrawal symptoms.
> 
> ...


Weed has withdrawals too. They're not life-threatening seizures, but they're enough that numerous (like twenty) people who I know who are heavy smokers(I know about 100) told me they tried to quit but couldn't sleep or eat or some other very essential bodily function without smoking over a period of a week or however long each tried to go without. 

There aren't right or wrong reasons to use a drug. There's no morality inherent to any drug more than to any other. 

And on my end, I've never ever had any problems with alcohol making me angry, violent, or any of the other favorite things that pot proponents cherrypick. Alcohol makes you more honest and more yourself - if you get violent or angry or sad, it's just your mental state showing through more sincerely, up to a point. If you black out, however, the things you do don't even make sense to you. But people rarely get to that point. 

If you want to put all the blame for a stoner on the person and all the blame for the alcoholic on the drug, that's logically inconsistent. That's illogical.


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## B3LIAL (Dec 21, 2013)

William I am said:


> Weed has withdrawals too. They're not life-threatening seizures, but they're enough that numerous (like twenty) people who I know who are heavy smokers(I know about 100) told me they tried to quit but couldn't sleep or eat or some other very essential bodily function without smoking over a period of a week or however long each tried to go without.
> 
> There aren't right or wrong reasons to use a drug. There's no morality inherent to any drug more than to any other.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry, but I can't believe the anecdotal evidence of someone who says they know "like 20" people who have said such things about weed.

One thing I will concede on is that I know a lot of weed smokers who quit but went on to smoke cigarettes. Some of whom mixed tobacco with their weed which is stupid but makes it understandable why they would go on to smoke, but other didn't have tobacco in it. So I will be researching the reasons why people who smoke weed quite often go on to smoke cigarettes.

Me thinks it's something to do with these people needing some sort of stress killer, or have gotten too used to pumping something throughout their lungs. I don't know. I will investigate. 

I never will blame the user 100% when it comes to weed, it does have qualities about it that make it very tempting to use and difficult to give up, but I will never accept it's near to the same level as alcohol when it comes to this.

I don't understand why you started talking about morals because I never mentioned moral standards. When talking about "right and wrong" reasons to use weed, I was merely pointing out that weed shouldn't be used as a temporary solution to a greater problem, which many weed users might end up doing. 

Weed should be used for recreational use and enjoyment, and the only reason it should ever be used for medical use is after the person has gone to see a doctor and tried to find a more permanent solution to their problem, or sought out advice from people with knowledge on the subject and decided that marijuana would be the best available solution to their problem.

But this rarely happens. It's usually just - "Getting high takes the pain away", and then them lighting up.


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## Van Meter (Sep 28, 2012)

Ksilva said:


> The physical marijuana "withdrawal" symptoms are almost laughable compared to heavy alcohol use, or even long term psych drug use for that matter. Heavy mj users would have the same symptoms quitting coffee. It is most certainly _not_ the same as any other drug. The fact that you can 1) get a seizure and 2) die from stopping alcohol should make it patently obvious that alcohol is more harmful.


I know, I used to drink heavily and daily. **Personally speaking**, withdrawal was more painful with marijuana. If you've come off of a heavy alcohol spree lasting for a good while, you might have shakes, mild agitation, feelings of disorientation, can't think straight, etc. Once you are over it, which is a 2 day descent, you feel as if nothing ever happened (although you will have intense dreams for 3-5 days because of R.E.M rebound). You feel completely functional again after it, and I had repeated that cycle many times. Marijuana on the other hand, I felt a lot worse and for longer. There were a lot of strange symptoms. I didn't feel like myself for weeks, couldn't sleep well for almost a week, depression, strong anxiety, overwhelming feeling of boredom. Not so much for alcohol. When you kick the shit, you feel clean and good to go. These experiences might be different for others. I also acknowledge that alcohol withdrawals are worse for you than marijuana and can cause permanent damage, assuming that Marijuana didn't make you schizophrenic(jk).


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## Adena (May 14, 2014)

I don't see why alcohol and cigarettes are legal and weed isn't. All are subtances.


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## something987 (Jul 20, 2014)

Van Meter said:


> I know, I used to drink heavily and daily. **Personally speaking**, withdrawal was more painful with marijuana. If you've come off of a heavy alcohol spree lasting for a good while, you might have shakes, mild agitation, feelings of disorientation, can't think straight, etc. Once you are over it, which is a 2 day descent, you feel as if nothing ever happened (although you will have intense dreams for 3-5 days because of R.E.M rebound). You feel completely functional again after it, and I had repeated that cycle many times. Marijuana on the other hand, I felt a lot worse and for longer. There were a lot of strange symptoms. I didn't feel like myself for weeks, couldn't sleep well for almost a week, depression, strong anxiety, overwhelming feeling of boredom. Not so much for alcohol. When you kick the shit, you feel clean and good to go. These experiences might be different for others. I also acknowledge that alcohol withdrawals are worse for you than marijuana and can cause permanent damage, assuming that Marijuana didn't make you schizophrenic(jk).


Alright, I respect your experience and believe you. I'm speaking from my own experience though, I have a friend who has had an alcohol problem for a long time and in December she went on a two week binge and ended up in rehab. She went through severe withdrawals and was put on benzos in outpatient to undercut the withdrawal symptoms, but instead they lengthened the withdrawals. It's been several months and she still is not physically functional, and still trying to get off the benzos. So, I'm glad you had this experience of a two day withdrawal, but she did not. She has no underlying health conditions either.

I know anecdotal evidence is not evidence, but having heard similar stories from her about others who went through the same in rehab, and having friends who start and stop weed between jobs, I believe alcohol is much worse.

Unrelated to your comment: alcohol is responsible for far more violent outbursts and impulsive actions than weed. This is just kind of common knowledge. One cannot accuse people of being lazy and unmotivated under the influence of weed, while at the same time implying it causes just as many angry/violent outbursts as alcohol.


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## B3LIAL (Dec 21, 2013)

Right, so basically I've got the joints in front of me now, and I'm about to have my first experience.

Any last minute advice? Don't just say enjoy...


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## Eckis (Feb 7, 2013)

B3LIAL:9531506 said:


> Right, so basically I've got the joints in front of me now, and I'm about to have my first experience.
> 
> Any last minute advice? Don't just say enjoy...


Stop and think. Is this really what you want to do with your life?


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## Chiaroscuro (Jul 10, 2012)

B3LIAL said:


> Right, so basically I've got the joints in front of me now, and I'm about to have my first experience.
> 
> Any last minute advice? Don't just say enjoy...


You were arguing in favor without having ever tried? Hm.. Just do it, it's almost harmless right...


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## Lucky Luciano (Nov 28, 2013)

B3LIAL said:


> Right, so basically I've got the joints in front of me now, and I'm about to have my first experience.
> 
> Any last minute advice? Don't just say enjoy...


my fried once told me dont worry whatever happens its normal
my advice is play some good music....

for me weed was kinda letdown, I did not really have any strong effects other than being tired nd thirsty and I smoked until I passed out...


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

B3LIAL said:


> Right, so basically I've got the joints in front of me now, and I'm about to have my first experience.
> 
> Any last minute advice? Don't just say enjoy...


Don't be surprised if you don't feel a thing the first time.


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## Chiaroscuro (Jul 10, 2012)

Better yet, don't even give yourself a first time. Live a happy and healthy sober life. Best case is you try it, think it was fun and never do it again. Worst case you pick up a bad habit.


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## suicidal_orange (May 6, 2010)

@_B3LIAL_ as you're set on trying it my advice is: They aren't coming to get you so don't throw your stash out the window! 

This is based on my experience at uni where we bought some and one of the group who'd never had it before was convinced "they" knew and were coming so he threw his stash out of the window into a 3/4 enclosed residential area on university grounds, pretty much in the path of the security guard... Really not sure how we got away with that one. 

@_Van Meter_ I've never drank to excess for a prolonged period to compare but I do remember that it took about six months to completely sober up after a couple of years of regular smoking. After that the world was just a better place and I actually felt like I was a part of it, so much so that ever since I wont touch the stuff and will avoid being around anyone who is smoking it. 

I also know people for whom it has been a gateway drug as their weed dealer also sells other stuff, so this does happen. One's a cocaine addict and a couple of others have got so bad as to inject something dodgy (not as serious as heroin, from what I understand but they obviously have problems to be willing to go that far) and all do pills and who knows what else at raves. 

Try it by all means but don't believe anyone who's never quit that it hasn't affected them - like anything the changes are gradual and you and people around you regularly wont notice them.


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## Chiaroscuro (Jul 10, 2012)

Ksilva said:


> I'm sorry but this is just incorrect. Yes, it can act as all of those things, but it is classified as a hallucinogen. It does not function as an opiate, and hence, narcotic. My reason for pointing this out is the government's incorrect classification of it. It's a misrepresentation of what it really is, but they call it a narcotic so it can sound dangerous and evil and un-Murican. Narcotic /= drug.


So you are a scientist now? Tell me, what is the difference between acting as a stimulant, hallucinogen and depressant and being one? Look on erowid.com and you'll see it has all properties of all three of those, thus can be "classified" as any. I am an independent and I do support legalization, came here to argue because I see too many ill-informed people supporting it and that's being generous.


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## something987 (Jul 20, 2014)

So, my comment is only valid if I am a scientist. Tell me is it possible for you to respond to comments without being rude? How about, you find a source that says it is medically classified as a narcotic, and I will believe you. Since it is the duty of the person making the claim to provide evidence for it.

By the way, I added the word "pharmacologically" so as to avoid this kind of pedantic comment. You did indeed come to argue, rather than debate, that's for sure. All you do is refute points, but you don't actually make any your own,


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## kayaycee. (Jun 20, 2014)

Remember that one time a debate happened and no one took things personally? That was fun.


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## William I am (May 20, 2011)

Ksilva said:


> I'm sorry but this is just incorrect. Yes, it can act as all of those things, but it is pharmacologically classified as a hallucinogen. It does not function as an opiate, and hence, narcotic. My reason for pointing this out is the government's incorrect classification of it. It's a misrepresentation of what it really is, but they call it a narcotic so it can sound dangerous and evil and un-Murican. Narcotic /= drug. Meaning the words are not interchangeable.


The word narcotic is a very fuzzy term. Like most words, definitions and usage of it vary from population to population.
The original usage meant "any drug that makes you sleepy". 

Marijuana is pharmacologically classified as a CNS stimulant, depressant, and sometimes a hallucinogen. This I learned in my pharmacology of abused substances class. I'm actually right.


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## something987 (Jul 20, 2014)

William I am said:


> The word narcotic is a very fuzzy term. Like most words, definitions and usage of it vary from population to population.
> The original usage meant "any drug that makes you sleepy".
> 
> Marijuana is pharmacologically classified as a CNS stimulant, depressant, and sometimes a hallucinogen. This I learned in my pharmacology of abused substances class. I'm actually right.


Yeah, it is, it's usually used incorrectly. I have heard of it being a depressant but I have asked my pharmacist friend and they said it was primarily considered a hallucinogen due to THC being the main active ingredient.


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## laureby (Aug 10, 2014)

ISFJ here (I think, still figuring it out) and I don't see a real problem with it. I wouldn't mind if it were legal. I used to smoke a lot then I realized I was doing it too much and started lacking motivation, not doing my work, and just wasting my time. I have friends that do it and I don't mind. I still do it once in a while, but I believe everything should be in moderation!! Too much of a good thing is almost always a bad thing. I also had a friend who would go to work high and basically be high all day because she told me "she doesn't like who she is sober." This really bothered me that she was so dependent on it, that she disliked herself without it. I also find it kind of irresponsible to show up to work baked.. I think it should be a private or social thing. In general though, it should totally be legal and used responsibly just like every other substance!


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## something987 (Jul 20, 2014)

I guess I am the only one, but I don't think people who take small hits of weed throughout the day everyday is much different from being under the influence of antidepressants or benzodiazepines (which are a lot worse) every day. It's just that one category is socially acceptable and engrained into us as good, and the other is "not". I'll probably get tackled for saying this but at this point I don't care much, have at it.


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## redlady (Aug 9, 2014)

E/INFP here, and I live in one of those places where it has been legalized . I don't see a problem with it, if people REALLY want to smoke pot they're gonna find a way to do it. It's also a matter of personal freedom. Legalization hasn't caused any major issues that I'm aware of, other than a couple of incidents with people overdosing and getting hurt (happened before legalization, too). Personally, I would never do weed, but if someone wants to, it's their life. Only thing that bothers me is when kids get involved with it. Ick.


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## Luzy (Jul 19, 2014)

Just legalize it already...
I don't get how having fun with weed is that different from having fun by getting drunk. Nobody should restrain someone of doing something for themselves.


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## Sourpuss (Aug 9, 2014)

I don't understand what the appeal in marijuana is, or even alcohol. I've just never had any desire to alter my mind at all. When I need an escape or to relax I listen to music or watch a documentary, or maybe a let's play, or I might play a game, or read a book.

I'll be honest, I think marijuana culture is kind of stupid and trashy. However I don't think it should be illegal. If they aren't bothering me I'm not going to bother them. So, why criminalize it?


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## Caged Within (Aug 9, 2013)

I don't smoke, but I'm totally for legalization. I don't like how so many people are thrown in jail, for something as harmless as smoking weed. Throwing these people in jail, with hardened criminals, only serves to ruin lives.


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## Rhaegar (Aug 3, 2014)

I used to smoke hashish back in my late teens. It's a fun recreational activity to do with your friends after parties. I don't have anything against it.

I don't smoke anymore, though.


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## frozenmusic (Aug 12, 2014)

Never did any sort of drug (well.. except coffee, but hey!) and I don't support them, either. I like my clarity of thought, thank you very much. I don't even drink because I feel like it's clouding my judgement, let alone anything else. 
To be honest, I could never understand other people's need to smoke weed or 'aid' themselves with any type of substance. Some acquaintances of mine told me they liked how carefree it made them feel, or that it helped them have fun. I wouldn't want to offend anyone, but, in my book, if you need to smoke weed in order to have fun, there's something wrong somewhere. Same goes for alcohol.


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## Rhaegar (Aug 3, 2014)

frozenmusic said:


> Same goes for alcohol.


Alcohol can be nice for shy people or those with social anxiety at parties. Feeling uncomfortable in social situations can serve as a terrible barrier that restricts them from having fun and interacting with others, and alcohol removes that barrier. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. 

I do agree that you don't need marijuana in order to have fun.


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## Acadia (Mar 20, 2014)

Absolutely in favor of legalization. It helps a lot of people, and it has the potential to help even more.


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## Mutant Hive Queen (Oct 29, 2013)

For my own, personal, part, I think marijuana should be made legal. _However_, it should be taxed, and an equivalent to Methadone should be found for it if it doesn't already exist.


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## DemonAbyss10 (Oct 28, 2010)

Do whatever you want, you are the one that is making the choice whether to do it or not. 

The only way weed really bugs me is you get idiots who think everyone needs to or should do it, and spout it off continuously. Live or let live, don't force/pressure others into trying it/doing it. If they want to try it or do it, let them go onto that path themselves.

FYI, I am not against it, I actually want research to go into it more. I m just against people trying to convert everyone into doing things their way. Kinda reminds me of evangelists, which bug me a lot.


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## sacrosanctsun (May 20, 2014)

I'm certainly in favor or legalization.
Green's pretty great. It does have properties that ease pain and illness, which is great. Recreationally, it's fun with friends and can really enhance the moments that are spent with others. The only problem I have is when it is used for escapism purposes rather than to maximize being present in the real world.
Our generation has a problem with escapism as it is, and I would really like it if weed wouldn't become another means of escape.
Unfortunately, this is definitely a real obstacle in the future if marijuana is to become legal


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## Van Meter (Sep 28, 2012)

I think that Ne doms are more likely to enjoy marijuana than Ni doms. I've noticed that users of alcohol and marijuana tend to be dichotomous in their preferences. Its like the movie Platoon, which may be a lame example but any ways. All the Ne looking soldiers are off smoking pot and opium(opium for pain purposes, but getting it requires intermingling with the natives) and the Ni looking soldiers are just getting drunk, playing cards, and talking shit and are all serious like.


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## something987 (Jul 20, 2014)

Van Meter said:


> I think that Ne doms are more likely to enjoy marijuana than Ni doms. I've noticed that users of alcohol and marijuana tend to be dichotomous in their preferences. Its like the movie Platoon, which may be a lame example but any ways. All the Ne looking soldiers are off smoking pot and opium(opium for pain purposes, but getting it requires intermingling with the natives) and the Ni looking soldiers are just getting drunk, playing cards, and talking shit and are all serious like.


This is an interesting association. Can you explain your reasoning?


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## ISTPerson (Sep 13, 2014)

It should be legal, it's none of my business what other people choose to do in their free time.


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## Van Meter (Sep 28, 2012)

ISTPerson said:


> It should be legal, it's none of my business what other people choose to do in their free time.


I don't understand that mentality, because its anti-social. Think if you are a father and your son/daughter is doing something horrible and associates with people that you strongly disapprove of. You would deny him/her financial support, you will give him all of the advice you have, you will try to save him in the best way you know how. Its the same with community(or it should). Its unfortunate that people feel insignificant with such a big populace, but your actions do count.

Smoking pot clouds your mind. I can't stand it when people truly think that it doesn't, because everyone outside sees. You can do what you want, just don't be a drain. I don't care if you do heroin, just don't leech.


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## MNiS (Jan 30, 2010)

The losers will like it.


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## CraniumZ (Mar 4, 2014)

Van Meter said:


> I don't understand that mentality, because its anti-social. Think if you are a father and your son/daughter is doing something horrible and associates with people that you strongly disapprove of. You would deny him/her financial support, you will give him all of the advice you have, you will try to save him in the best way you know how. Its the same with community(or it should). Its unfortunate that people feel insignificant with such a big populace, but your actions do count.
> 
> Smoking pot clouds your mind. I can't stand it when people truly think that it doesn't, because everyone outside sees. You can do what you want, just don't be a drain. I don't care if you do heroin, just don't leech.


This is irrelevant. It doesn't mean that it should be banned. If you are a parent, then it is your responsibility to make sure they don't do drugs.


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## Van Meter (Sep 28, 2012)

CraniumZ said:


> This is irrelevant. It doesn't mean that it should be banned. If you are a parent, then it is your responsibility to make sure they don't do drugs.


I don't remember saying it should be banned. I was addressing the idea of different strokes for different folks with utter indifference. As long as civilization exists, that proposition will be nuanced heavily. I was trying to say that pot is generally a vice, that's all.


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## L'Enfant Terrible (Jun 8, 2014)

In few words, it is as dammaging as alcohol and cigarettes, no matter what you people think nowadays. This is how things are going to be. Weed legalisation - happy stupider people - happy richer businessmen - some Fe-driven doctors will actually make some serious studies on marijuana long term use - marijuana will still be legal but people will frown upon it.

I have used it twice before and I hate the feeling. It makes you totally relaxed, slow and lazy. Ugh. Humans are already pretty dumb, reckless and indifferent. They don't need more of that.


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## amongfirstslugs (Jun 23, 2012)

I think it should be legal, and it was in the state I used to live! But now I've moved. Darn. 

Anyhow, I personally don't like it and disliked the effect it had on me...though I'd smoked way too much.

I dislike that people ignore and deny potential harmful effects on brain chemistry and that it can be psychologically addictive. And the whole "I'm a pothead" identifier thing is annoying to me. 

There's no reason it should be illegal, though. Especially because of its positive effects.


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## something987 (Jul 20, 2014)

Van Meter said:


> I don't understand that mentality, because its anti-social. Think if you are a father and your son/daughter is doing something horrible and associates with people that you strongly disapprove of. You would deny him/her financial support, you will give him all of the advice you have, you will try to save him in the best way you know how. Its the same with community(or it should). Its unfortunate that people feel insignificant with such a big populace, but your actions do count.
> 
> Smoking pot clouds your mind. I can't stand it when people truly think that it doesn't, because everyone outside sees. You can do what you want, just don't be a drain. I don't care if you do heroin, just don't leech.


You can't prevent people from living their lives by playing mommy or daddy to everyone in society. The drug war failure is the most obvious proof of this.

"I don't care if you do heroin, just don't leech." What? What does this even mean?


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## dbmorpher (Sep 14, 2014)

Natural Selection always prevails. Honestly I don't think there would be a difference between legal or not except for the fact that there would be less money spent on jail. However from personal experience I've noticed that it does affect temperament and judgement in a negative way. I say no on marijuana, I just want the drinking age to be lowered but that's my Fe talking.
If I liked smoking weed I may have a different position but frankly I don't see the purpose of spending so much to support a fleeting feeling that can be gained individually through either prayer or meditation.

In essence marijuana is just an easy way for extroverts to gain insight.


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## something987 (Jul 20, 2014)

dbmorpher said:


> Natural Selection always prevails. Honestly I don't think there would be a difference between legal or not except for the fact that there would be less money spent on jail. However from personal experience *I've noticed that it does affect temperament and judgement in a negative way.* I say no on marijuana, I just want the drinking age to be lowered but that's my Fe talking.
> If I liked smoking weed I may have a different position but frankly I don't see the purpose of spending so much to support a fleeting feeling that can be gained individually through either prayer or meditation.
> 
> *In essence marijuana is just an easy way for extroverts to gain insight in my mind.*


I'm guessing you didn't mean to insult yourself here?

Anyway...what do you mean by your last sentence? What does being an extrovert have to do with anything?


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## dbmorpher (Sep 14, 2014)

I guess people who can't deal with themselves turn to drugs because they cannot take the idea of themselves. The people I've seen that use marijuana could never be content by themselves and need others to stimulate them. I think drugs provide an easy insight to a person's inner being without much effort. Therefore extraverts tend to use them because they can't deal with themselves.

I should probably have left out the "in my mind part" on the last sentence in my previous post.


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## something987 (Jul 20, 2014)

Where do you get the idea that extroverts can't deal with themselves? That is not an exclusively extrovert quality, nor is it necessarily an extrovert quality.

In any case, you are contradicting yourself, by claiming that it gives you insight into your mind but people use it not to deal with "themselves" (which I assume you mean, their own thoughts).


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## dbmorpher (Sep 14, 2014)

I am implying that people who cannot deal with themselves tend to be extraverts, not that all extraverts cannot deal with themselves.
I used "in my mind" as a synonym for "in my opinion"
Revised theory:
*All people* tend to use drugs do so out of failure to explore the inner self or to reach out to others
Wait that gave me an idea...

People use drugs to suppress their inferior function the quick way instead of developing it out the socially natural and mature way.


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## something987 (Jul 20, 2014)

dbmorpher said:


> I am implying that people who cannot deal with themselves tend to be extraverts, not that all extraverts cannot deal with themselves.
> I used "in my mind" as a synonym for "in my opinion"
> Revised theory:
> *All people* tend to use drugs do so out of failure to explore the inner self or to reach out to others
> ...


But you're still contradicting yourself. People use drugs out of failure to explore the inner self, yet you said earlier that the same effects of marijuana can be achieved through meditation, which is exploring your inner self.

I still don't understand how you gauged your view on extroverts. It seems like you do not understand what extroversion actually is. Inability to accept yourself doesn't have much to do with where you get your energy from (being near others or alone). There are plenty of introverts who fail to explore their inner self and escape through the internet, video games, etc.


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## dbmorpher (Sep 14, 2014)

I'm really not contradicting myself. I said drugs are an easy way to connect with yourself. Meditation is the hard way. Extraverts are typically described as, scared of being alone or a general dislike of the aforementioned position. I don't know what's it's like to be an extravert so I'm going off of what I've read. My latest idea still applies. People use drugs to trigger their inferior function in a way that does not require mental effort.


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## something987 (Jul 20, 2014)

dbmorpher said:


> I'm really not contradicting myself. I said drugs are an easy way to connect with yourself. Meditation is the hard way. Extraverts are typically described as, scared of being alone or a general dislike of the aforementioned position. I don't know what's it's like to be an extravert so I'm going off of what I've read. My latest idea still applies. People use drugs to trigger their inferior function in a way that does not require mental effort.


Alright, I'm going to lay out the argument you're posing and you tell me where I am not understanding:

1. People use drugs because they don't want to face their inner selves.
2. Marijuana (a drug) has similar effects to meditation.
3. Meditation is a way of facing your inner self.

I have never heard of an extrovert being described as scared of being alone, can you tell me where you read that? That is incorrect. The latter portion of your sentence is correct.


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## dbmorpher (Sep 14, 2014)

This is a first person source of an extrovert having difficulties with unexpected alone time
How do extroverts deal with unexpected alone time? - social life loneliness | Ask MetaFilter


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## Lilsnowy (Sep 9, 2009)

I don't smoke it and have no plans. 

I don't like to see anyone in prison for smoking pot but not sure if legalizing it is good either. 
What worries me is if it's legal, children will be exposed to it much more often. Mothers may smoke who would quit cigarettes during pregnancy. It may have harmful effects on intelligence, motivation, even a child's growth. Employers will have to deal with more stoned workers. I don't know. There may be harmful effects to adults that are unknown at this time. 

My mom used to smoke it for asthma, as ironic as that is. It would clear her lungs out bigtime! But she died of lung disease and I wonder if it would have come so quickly (56 years old) if she had not continued smoking both pot and cigarettes.


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## something987 (Jul 20, 2014)

dbmorpher said:


> This is a first person source of an extrovert having difficulties with unexpected alone time
> How do extroverts deal with unexpected alone time? - social life loneliness | Ask MetaFilter


I wouldn't say one online anecdote from metafilter is a reliable source...


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## dbmorpher (Sep 14, 2014)

I couldn't find the sources that said it originally (my browser history is cluttered) but still the general consensus from what I've seen is that extroverts tend to not be comfortable alone


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## something987 (Jul 20, 2014)

Lilsnowy said:


> I don't like to see anyone in prison for smoking pot but not sure if legalizing it is good either.
> What worries me is if it's legal, *children will be exposed to it much more often*.


Not really:



> The Dutch have about 700 adults-only clubs that sell 50 to 150 metric tons of cannabis per year, yet Dutch teens report lower levels of weed usage and availability than youth in the United States.
> *What can we learn from the Dutch cannabis coffeeshop system? - MacCoun - 2011 - Addiction - Wiley Online Library*





> Mothers may smoke who would quit cigarettes during pregnancy. It may have harmful effects on intelligence, motivation, even a child's growth. Employers will have to deal with more stoned workers. I don't know. There may be harmful effects to adults that are unknown at this time.


Why would expecting mothers suddenly change their minds if weed were made legal? If some dumbass wants to smoke weed while they're pregnant, the law is certainly not going to stop them. That seems like an absurd point. Employers will not have to deal with stoned workers any more than they do now. Because drug tests.


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## something987 (Jul 20, 2014)

dbmorpher said:


> I couldn't find the sources that said it originally (my browser history is cluttered) but still the general consensus from what I've seen is that extroverts tend to not be comfortable alone


Just as introverts tend to not be comfortable in crowds. This doesn't really have to do with not wanting to face yourself, just as it would be inaccurate to say introverts don't want to face the world. It's just a matter of preference.


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## Lilsnowy (Sep 9, 2009)

Ksilva said:


> Not really:
> 
> Why would expecting mothers suddenly change their minds if weed were made legal? If some dumbass wants to smoke weed while they're pregnant, the law is certainly not going to stop them. That seems like an absurd point. Employers will not have to deal with stoned workers any more than they do now. Because drug tests.


Just shared my thoughts. Not interested in debating.


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## Lilsnowy (Sep 9, 2009)

dbmorpher said:


> I guess people who can't deal with themselves turn to drugs because they cannot take the idea of themselves. The people I've seen that use marijuana could never be content by themselves and need others to stimulate them. I think drugs provide an easy insight to a person's inner being without much effort. Therefore extraverts tend to use them because they can't deal with themselves.
> 
> I should probably have left out the "in my mind part" on the last sentence in my previous post.


Well, I have a super-introverted friend who smokes pot regularly. He says I see him (have insight into him) and I'm sure he would like to escape that at times.  He smokes as an escape or to relax. And as an extrovert, I can tell you that I love time alone as much as he does. I am very comfortable being alone. I have no desire to use drugs. 

So that is one extrovert's opinion anyway.


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## JTHearts (Aug 6, 2013)

I still think it's bad for you and if you want it to be legal you should wait until it's legal to use it, don't break the law.


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## monemi (Jun 24, 2013)

dbmorpher said:


> I'm really not contradicting myself. I said drugs are an easy way to connect with yourself. Meditation is the hard way. Extraverts are typically described as, scared of being alone or a general dislike of the aforementioned position. I don't know what's it's like to be an extravert so I'm going off of what I've read. My latest idea still applies. People use drugs to trigger their inferior function in a way that does not require mental effort.


What? My father taught me to meditate as a kid. Meditation isn't hard. If it was hard, I probably wouldn't bother doing it anymore. I do it because it helps me. 




Back to the OT. I think pot should be legal. It's not really for me. I've smoked it in social situations maybe a half dozen times. Nothing changes. I curl up in a ball on someone's lap and go to sleep. That's not really entertaining and I'm not a connoisseur in any manner. When I drink alcohol, I don't drink enough to get drunk. I just drink what tastes good and drink responsibly. I don't have a motivation for smoking pot. That said, I'm not concerned if my kids smoke pot when they grow up. So, it should be legal.


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## monemi (Jun 24, 2013)

Ksilva said:


> Not really:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Agreed. LOL! Mothers who otherwise would've been careful would suddenly decide that pot is A-okay for pregnancy! When they ended prohibition, you should've seen how full the bars were with pregnant women.


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