# Who would win in an intellectual fight, ISTJ or INTJ?



## Mendi the ISFJ

What are the benefits of S vs N for I*TJs? Who would more likely win in a intellectual debate or fight to the death?


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## CorgiGirl

Hahaha, I get into a ton of debates with my INTJ friend! Nobody gives up. Both are equally stubborn. There is no better way for either of them to approach a debate, just different ways. ISTJs will take the "that's how it's always been done" and point out how it's worked so far. The INTJ will talk about how it hasn't worked so far and talk about how to improve it. I think ISTJs might be better at proving something because it's hard to prove something will work when it hasn't happened yet. But if an INTJ can beat an ISTJ at their own game, by showing how it doesn't work to the point that there is not enough good reasons to keep it anymore, than that's how they win.


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## Mind Swirl

Intellectual battle? I don't know, depends on the people involved. It also depends on what the discussion is about. I have an ISTJ friend who's probably just as stubborn if not more stubborn than me in some respects. Most of the arguments I've had with an ISTJ friend aren't intellectual, they're about "how to do things". Usually my ISTJ friend asks me to do something and I don't do it to their liking. They then go back and re-do what I did the "right way". I make a comment or question their method, argue the best method, and anger ensues.


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## niss

Never seen that happen where I knew the types of the people involved...we always either come to an agreement or agree to disagree.


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## Adesi

niss said:


> Never seen that happen where I knew the types of the people involved...we always either come to an agreement or agree to disagree.


You haven't killed an INTJ over a battle of wits you mean?


Yeah, my SO (INTJ) and I either quickly get to "Yeah, I guess so" or agree to disagree. 
Another friend (recently tested as INTJ---definitely Ni) and I usually end up at the same conclusion but have different paths of getting there.


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## Apollo Celestio

The only way to answer this question is generally, and I will answer "INTJs, hands down." Now, get angry and specify the question.


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## Mendi the ISFJ

Apollo Celestio said:


> The only way to answer this question is generally, and I will answer "INTJs, hands down." Now, get angry and specify the question.


why would i get mad, thats your opinion (which i asked for) theres no need to specify the question either since its posted. Thanks


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## Spades

I think there's often no winner. An ISTJ will be very good at coming up with concrete evidence while an INTJ might find a loophole to attack on. A conclusion may or may not be reached. Neither will give up until they've exhausted their resources.

I'm sometimes scared to argue with SJ's in general, because they have a slew of past data to use against me while I have a bunch of ideas which may be too abstract.


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## Apollo Celestio

Anyone can do research, that's not Si. Which is why this is too much of a general question.


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## WamphyriThrall

Apollo Celestio said:


> Anyone can do research, that's not Si. Which is why this is too much of a general question.


I've found that it's very difficult to change an ISTJ's mind once they've picked a stance on something, near impossible actually. I can attack their points all I want and offer alternatives, but they more often than not end up being ignored while they choose to hold their ground, and we stay on step one. They're better for asking for practical advice than debating, which I reserve for fellow NTs. There's no substitute.


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## Apollo Celestio

Depends on where the belief comes from, I've found SJ's to be two faced in that if you show them up intellectually they will agree with you, but will go on playing as though they never switched to save face in the crowd. SPs are much more intellectually stubborn. They will not even listen to you if intellectually opposed. You can't debate if they're not willing to listen. ISTJs in particular suffer the least from these things.. they're like INTJs in that they honor truth and do not like to be wrong. It's really too general to tell who would "win" because believe or not we're similar!


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## Mendi the ISFJ

Apollo Celestio said:


> Depends on where the belief comes from, I've found SJ's to be two faced in that if you show them up intellectually they will agree with you, but will go on playing as though they never switched to save face in the crowd. SPs are much more intellectually stubborn. They will not even listen to you if intellectually opposed. You can't debate if they're not willing to listen. ISTJs in particular suffer the least from these things.. they're like INTJs in that they honor truth and do not like to be wrong. It's really too general to tell who would "win" because believe or not we're similar!


you say two faced, i say avoiding conflict. i like to do what i call letting ridiculous people be ridiculous. sometimes there is no point in arguing with someone (see debate). People rarely change their opinions based on what you argue so it seems like a waste of time.


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