# The Doctor



## WanderingThoughts (Apr 4, 2012)

WARNING: Possible spoilers.

I've been thinking lately about the character(s?) of the Doctor from the Doctor Who TV series, specifically his deeper traits that lie beneath the surface. Bits of this surface constantly with the Ninth Doctor, and at times show through with the Tenth Doctor (and occasionally, the Eleventh as well).

Picturing myself in his shoes, he must be an incredibly lonely being. Century after century of travelling the universe, accompanied by dozens of companions who rarely stay for long, close friends who can't be with him. His home planet and all his people are dead, and he is the last of his kind, wandering the cosmos, searching for who knows what, waiting to die but knowing that it may never happen. The Ninth Doctor seems to be the biggest window; you can see the pain in his eyes whenever someone else dies, whenever the past haunts him. I'm not sure why, but he fascinates me in some ways. I almost wish at times that I could reach through the screen and reassure him. :sad:

With the Tenth Doctor, the most painful moments were towards the last bit of The End of Time, saying his goodbyes, wondering why he has to die, knowing he'll never see his friends again. His regeneration was the saddest moment of the new series, in my opinion: 



 
I almost find that the Eleventh Doctor hasn't come across enough truly serious moments, honestly. I mean, sure, his life and his companions' lives, or a planet, or the universe, are always in danger, but how often have the odds been so overwhelming that victory comes with a serious cost? With the Ninth Doctor, there was the Game Station and all the people that died defending it. With the Tenth Doctor, there was his deeply saddening, almost death-like renegeration (in that not only he but also his friends were gone). The Eleventh Doctor hasn't come across anything with consequences of that kind yet. On the one hand, it seems cruel to wish more pain on him. On the other hand, the danger makes you realize that what he does is truly very dangerous.

So...what are your thoughts on this ancient man? What parts of his character stick out to you the most?


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## crazyeddie (Oct 19, 2011)

Hmm. Well, he's always been fairly alienated from Time Lord society, and for good reason. He misses having others of his own kind to hang out with, and humans are only a substitute, maybe. What an ethical society of Time Lords, or at least time-traveling Gallifreyans, look like? Surely the Doctor could figure out how to create such a society if he put his mind to it?


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## WanderingThoughts (Apr 4, 2012)

It depends. He'd have to find a way to pull some of them out of the time-lock (ones who weren't completely unethical), without bringing back the entire Time War. And how long would they last before being lost to the swirling, shifting events of time, and died or disappeared, leaving him alone again? But I do think they'll probably have to do something at some point, story-wise, that brings in new semi-permanent characters. Somebody like Captain Jack would be interesting, someone who's not a romantic interest or a permanent companion, but someone the Doctor meets along his travels and eventually grows to trust, someone who occasionally tags along or helps him in some way. However, having another Time Lord character would be quite interesting. (A proper Time Lord, not someone like River.)


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## infpblog (Dec 31, 2009)

They're bringing the Master back next season or so it's rumored. And Amy Pond is leaving at the end of the season which is bummer since she's my all time favorite companion and I've been watching Doctor Who since the 3rd Doctor.


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## Marimeli (Apr 17, 2012)

Amy Pond IS the best, but the chemistry between Rose and the 9th and 10th drs. was sublime.

I agree with the original poster that I'm just not "feeling" the 11th Doctor yet. He seems just a tad TOO smug sometimes. But even if there were other Time Lords around, it would still be lonely for all of them if they chose to do what the Doctor does. It's not like traveling like that is really conducive to lasting long-term relationships even if you're not immortal, sort of like an eternal truck driver.

In order to recreate an ethical society of Time Lords (@crazyeddie I'm assuming you are suggesting that he lead it, at least initially, so correct me if my assumption is flawed) he would need to be willing to give over his time travels long enough at least to assure the self-perpetuating stability of the organizing governing body. I'm not sure he could do it. And I think as painful as it is, the Doctor is truly and in all senses a very Romantic hero (note the capital)-- he is tragic and emotionally charged, adventurous and sometimes reckless, and fights for noble ideas at very high cost to himself. It probably appeals to his Romantic sensibilities to be a lone beacon of hope surfing the waves of time righting what once went wrong. Which now sounds sort of like Quantum Leap, but I never see Sam Beckett as a Doctor type.


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## crazyeddie (Oct 19, 2011)

WanderingThoughts said:


> It depends. He'd have to find a way to pull some of them out of the time-lock (ones who weren't completely unethical), without bringing back the entire Time War. And how long would they last before being lost to the swirling, shifting events of time, and died or disappeared, leaving him alone again? But I do think they'll probably have to do something at some point, story-wise, that brings in new semi-permanent characters. Somebody like Captain Jack would be interesting, someone who's not a romantic interest or a permanent companion, but someone the Doctor meets along his travels and eventually grows to trust, someone who occasionally tags along or helps him in some way. However, having another Time Lord character would be quite interesting. (A proper Time Lord, not someone like River.)


Well, he's already got one daughter, who's a Gallifreyan, even though he doesn't consider her a Time Lord. (Time Lady?) And there's River Song. I think he could recreate a Time Lord or Gallifreyan society without breaking the Time Lock.


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## crazyeddie (Oct 19, 2011)

Marimeli said:


> In order to recreate an ethical society of Time Lords (crazyeddie) I'm assuming you are suggesting that he lead it, at least initially, so correct me if my assumption is flawed) he would need to be willing to give over his time travels long enough at least to assure the self-perpetuating stability of the organizing governing body. I'm not sure he could do it. And I think as painful as it is, the Doctor is truly and in all senses a very Romantic hero (note the capital)-- he is tragic and emotionally charged, adventurous and sometimes reckless, and fights for noble ideas at very high cost to himself. It probably appeals to his Romantic sensibilities to be a lone beacon of hope surfing the waves of time righting what once went wrong. Which now sounds sort of like Quantum Leap, but I never see Sam Beckett as a Doctor type.


Yeah, he'd have to lead it, I guess, at least initially. Maybe not in a George Washington sense, but more like in a George Jetson sense. And I'm not sure if that would require him giving up time travel. We _are_ talking about a society of _Time_ Lords after all, and the Tardis was _not_ designed for a single pilot. I do agree that it would be incompatible with his Romantic nature. It's just that if he's all that lonely, I wish he would do something about it instead of just being all angsty.


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## Marimeli (Apr 17, 2012)

He does though... He keeps getting pets. Human ones. And he gets attached to them and then when he outlives them yet again he's all sad so he gets a new one. Like us and...

Holy cow. We're the Doctor's DOGS.


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## crazyeddie (Oct 19, 2011)

Marimeli said:


> He does though... He keeps getting pets. Human ones. And he gets attached to them and then when he outlives them yet again he's all sad so he gets a new one. Like us and...
> 
> Holy cow. We're the Doctor's DOGS.


Yep. As Mickey realized that one time. I think that's why 11 is not as angsty. He's more-or-less recovered from the Time War, and he realized he should probably stop flirting with his pets. And then River Song comes along....


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## Marimeli (Apr 17, 2012)

But man, if you're going to have to fall in love with someone, that's the way to do it. Have them die the first time you meet then everything else is uphill from there  er... If they're a time traveler living backwards from you, I mean.

Although, I kind of dig the sexual tension between Doctor and fish (picking random pet). Because he knows it's doomed to failure but he can't resist the attraction... It's like chick kryptonite; it can't be resisted.


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## crazyeddie (Oct 19, 2011)

When I first saw "A Good Man Goes to War," I was really excited, because I thought that the Doctor had assembled an army. Nope, turns out those were the alleged bad guys. The Doctor is a very capable individual, but he cripples himself, I think, by so throughly alienating himself from society. (Which is odd, since it's very clear he's a very social animal, who _needs_ his companions.) Yes, societies can cause inauthenticity (like the Daleks, who are organic fascist automatons, or the crazed apocalyptic cult the Time Lords turned into), but they also come in handy. Man is a social animal.

While I love Who, my own favorite series is Babylon 5, and there's this one line about why "Humans are Special." According to Delenn, a Minbari, humans are special because they create communities. Just once, I'd like to see the Doctor create a community and _use_ it. Not just a temporary ragtag band of misfits, who he uses and then abandons, but an actual community that exists through a good chunk of time. Like, he creates them, maybe by accident, and then he occasionally visits them again and again throughout various points in their history. Occasionally, they screw up, and he has to fix the problem, but basically, a decent society and a force for good.

Could just be that I was a history major, once upon a time.


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## Alyosha (Oct 22, 2011)

My favorite aspect of the Doctor is also that he is despite all he is in fact a very tragic character, and I also agree that we have nearly not seen anything of that since the Eleventh began. Actually, the two last seasons have been very lacking in emotion to me, and though it is arguably more visually arresting now, and has a lot of cool ideas, I haven't really enjoyed this Doctor as much as I enjoyed the Ninth and Tenth. I think it's due to the fact that the lead writer changed. Russel T. Davies who did the Ninth and the Tenth is a very obvious Intuitive Feeler. Often, and especially in the season finales, the series would even stop following logic for some kind of emotional point. To me, it was wonderful.

Occasionally Steven Moffat, probably an Intuitive Thinker, who is the lead writer now, would do some episodes, and they were always very memorable. For example the one with the singing children that wear the gas masks, or the first one that had the weeping angels in it ... but they weren't very emotional. His stuff is very cerebral. It's like ... For example, he kills the Doctor, and you're like, "Whaaaaaaat??" And then he pieces it all together, slowly and surely, and it's of course a lot of fun, but more in a sci-fi mystery kind of way than Davies's season finales which nearly felt like the world would never be the same after ... And now Moffat's completely in charge, and even the Doctor, as Moffat's character now, himself has become a much more cerebral person. It makes sense, and variety is part of what makes the series so good, but I still find myself missing how it used to be.

My sole hope is that by some crazy chance I will be allowed to lead write the Thirteenth Doctor. Hopefully the Twelfth will have to sacrifice an entire, innocent species to save the rest of the universe at the end of her last season. She will then commit suicide out of guilt, but be convinced by her companion to regenerate at the last second ... and with that we'll have our first INFP Doctor. With a Robert Smith-inspired look, the Thirteenth Doctor will pick Mark Twain's daughter Olivia Susan Clemens up from the 18th century, and travel the universe with her, guilt-ridden, looking for the meaning of life, and falling in love. Like in history, Clemens will in the end die of spinal meningitis, but before she does the Doctor will promise her he will continue to travel the universe doing good for as long as he can, and as much as he can. And with that he will return to the Tardis, and die of a broken heart, begin to regenerate, and then I'll leave the Fourteenth to someone else ...


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## Marimeli (Apr 17, 2012)

Not very emotional? The first weeping angels thi and the gas mask kid scared the crap out of me!!!

Edit: but omg in The Wedding of River Song that world where time was cracking up and Winston Churchill was the Roman Emperor and all that, I swear to God it was like that was pulled literally and with no filter right out of my head. That's exactly the kind of stuff I put together, exactly like that, in my imagination... Creating amalgamations of stuff to see what would happen etc. it was amazing and a little scary...


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## crazyeddie (Oct 19, 2011)

Alyosha said:


> My favorite aspect of the Doctor is also that he is despite all he is in fact a very tragic character, and I also agree that we have nearly not seen anything of that since the Eleventh began. Actually, the two last seasons have been very lacking in emotion to me, and though it is arguably more visually arresting now, and has a lot of cool ideas, I haven't really enjoyed this Doctor as much as I enjoyed the Ninth and Tenth. I think it's due to the fact that the lead writer changed. Russel T. Davies who did the Ninth and the Tenth is a very obvious Intuitive Feeler. Often, and especially in the season finales, the series would even stop following logic for some kind of emotional point. To me, it was wonderful.
> 
> Occasionally Steven Moffat, probably an Intuitive Thinker, who is the lead writer now, would do some episodes, and they were always very memorable. For example the one with the singing children that wear the gas masks, or the first one that had the weeping angels in it ... but they weren't very emotional. His stuff is very cerebral. It's like ... For example, he kills the Doctor, and you're like, "Whaaaaaaat??" And then he pieces it all together, slowly and surely, and it's of course a lot of fun, but more in a sci-fi mystery kind of way than Davies's season finales which nearly felt like the world would never be the same after ... And now Moffat's completely in charge, and even the Doctor, as Moffat's character now, himself has become a much more cerebral person. It makes sense, and variety is part of what makes the series so good, but I still find myself missing how it used to be.


I think 11th and Moffat's take on the Doctor is very much a reaction to Davies' take. I notice he's making a lot of references to the old series. I do like this new Doctor a lot, and in some ways, I like him better than 10, which is a bit difficult to do. My main objection is that Moffat is trying to pack in too much stuff. This last season, there was only one episode that I could have shown to somebody whose never watched the show before: The Doctor's Wife. Everything else was part of this jam-packed story arc, which if you didn't watch every single episode, you'd be completely lost. (Even if you had, some parts were very hard to follow.) I wish Moffat would just slow down. I do like the new intellectual, non-angsty, almost asexual Doctor (especially with Amy and Rory there to handle the emotional parts), but the flow of the story could benefit a lot from some slower movements. 

For example, that Vincent Van Gogh episode from the previous season.... OMG.... Watched it, then watched it with an ENFP friend who hadn't seen it yet. She got _so_ excited when they go back to the museum, and Amy's expecting to see all of these new pieces by Vincent.... and here I am, trying desperately not to bawl....



Alyosha said:


> My sole hope is that by some crazy chance I will be allowed to lead write the Thirteenth Doctor. Hopefully the Twelfth will have to sacrifice an entire, innocent species to save the rest of the universe at the end of her last season. She will then commit suicide out of guilt, but be convinced by her companion to regenerate at the last second ... and with that we'll have our first INFP Doctor. With a Robert Smith-inspired look, the Thirteenth Doctor will pick Mark Twain's daughter Olivia Susan Clemens up from the 18th century, and travel the universe with her, guilt-ridden, looking for the meaning of life, and falling in love. Like in history, Clemens will in the end die of spinal meningitis, but before she does the Doctor will promise her he will continue to travel the universe doing good for as long as he can, and as much as he can. And with that he will return to the Tardis, and die of a broken heart, begin to regenerate, and then I'll leave the Fourteenth to someone else ...


That sounds awesome. If you want to write some fan-fic, I'd read it


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## Alyosha (Oct 22, 2011)

@_Marimeli_ : Hahahah, yeah. You're right. "Emotional" is too broad. It does tend to be mysterious, suspenseful, and maybe even scary sometimes, but the closest Moffat has ever gotten to actually sort of scratching my heart, the way Davies could, was the first Christmas special. (I haven't seen the last one yet.) But I think you'd have to really be trying to adapt something by Charles Dickens and not do that to some degree ...

@_crazyeddie_ : Yeah, I see what you mean, even if it was a bit interesting to see him try to make it all into a longer story, instead of just having mostly unrelated things happening each time. I really wonder what the next season will be like ... But yeah, I think that's another one of my issues. Amy and Rory. I don't know if they're supposed to be the heart of the show now, but I think they're both very flat characters. Amy is confident, Rory is clumsy; both have a heart of gold. And that's sort of it ...

And oh!! I had forgotten about the van Gogh episode. Although to not contradict myself, it was incidentally not written by Moffat. But I I liked that one!! It was really, really sad. And not even really bittersweet sad. Just terribly sad ...

*EDIT:* As for about the fanfiction. Thank you!!  I'm happy you liked it, and I'm happy you'd want to read it, although to be realistic, I doubt I'll ever really write any except every time I tell everyone about my Thirteenth Doctor idea in hopes of being hired by BBC.


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## Marimeli (Apr 17, 2012)

Oh, I loved the Van Gogh episode. It was just beautifully crafted from top to bottom and inside out.

And agreed, while I like amy and rory okay, they don't really hold my interest much beyond my exceedingly wicked girl-crush on Amy.


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## crazyeddie (Oct 19, 2011)

Alyosha said:


> Yeah, I see what you mean, even if it was a bit interesting to see him try to make it all into a longer story, instead of just having mostly unrelated things happening each time.


I don't mind a longer story, it's just that with that long of a story, you can take your time a bit. Babylon 5 was one huge novel, done in 5 seasons. I think the last season would have been a lot better if the story was stretched out over two seasons.



Alyosha said:


> Amy and Rory. I don't know if they're supposed to be the heart of the show now, but I think they're both very flat characters. Amy is confident, Rory is clumsy; both have a heart of gold. And that's sort of it ...


Yeah, that's one of the drawbacks of the Doctor's perpetual "I'm going to backpack through Europe!" lifestyle, storywise. I get really tired of coming of age stories, what I really like is coming of age _again_ stories. Amy and Rory went through a _bit_ of character development, but more could have been done with the Last Centurion thing. Going from goofy, clumsy nurse to hardened, thousand-yard-stare legendary warrior. Problem is, now that Amy and Rory are married and have a kid (kinda), they're in danger of growing up. And if they grow up, the Doctor won't want to hang around them anymore.



Alyosha said:


> And oh!! I had forgotten about the van Gogh episode. Although to not contradict myself, it was incidentally not written by Moffat. But I I liked that one!! It was really, really sad. And not even really bittersweet sad. Just terribly sad ...


Yeah, I generally like Moffat's style, but it would be nice to see more guest writers. A slower pace would allow for that.


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## Marimeli (Apr 17, 2012)

crazyeddie said:


> And if they grow up, the Doctor won't want to hang around them anymore.


you speak truth, brother. So much truth.


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## Alyosha (Oct 22, 2011)

@_crazyeddie_ : Yeah, I like long stories too. But I meant it's interesting to see him try to be as varied as Doctor Who usually is, but at the same time attempting to make it all into one, long, connected, serial story. Which I guess is what made it so messy, maybe. Even if it did have a certain kind of charm, I guess ... And I agree! Guest writers are fun! I hope Paul Cornell comes back soon ... He did that Ninth Doctor episode when they're stuck in the church with Rose's father, and the double episode when the Doctor doesn't remember himself, and works as a teacher. All of those are some of my favorite episodes. And yeah, the Last Centurion thing really disappointed me too. Especially because he protected Amy for several thousand years, and then suddenly that just never happened after all, and Rory is back to being as he always was ...


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## crazyeddie (Oct 19, 2011)

Alyosha said:


> And yeah, the Last Centurion thing really disappointed me too. Especially because he protected Amy for several thousand years, and then suddenly that just never happened after all, and Rory is back to being as he always was ...


Except he can kinda remember it.... And it did come out a little, in a few places. There's been some speculation that House fucked with Amy's head in The Doctor's Wife because, after his experience as the Last Centurion Nothing. Phases. Rory. Anymore. "Rory, that eyepatch of doom could activate any moment." "It already has."


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