# Questionnare Completed: Please Help Type Me!



## candiedViolet (Jun 23, 2013)

I've been delving head first into Myers-Briggs in the last half of a year, and I've been reading virtually anything that I can get my hands on on the subject. However, I've been finding that I'm currently torn between quite a few types because I can't tell what exactly my dominant functions are! Is my Introverted Feeling taking over my better judgement (and functions) or is it one of my dominant functions, and I'm relying too excessively on it?

I find myself trying to type my personality as ESFJ, ENFJ, INFJ, ISFJ, INFP, and ISFP. I realize that these are all *incredibly *different personality types that use *very different* functions, but I know that I use Feeling (whether it is introverted or extraverted I'm still trying to figure out) as one of my dominant functions.

So I've decided to register an account here and try to get to the core of all of this! Thank you very very much for reading through all of this!

0. Is there anything that may affect the way you answer the questions? For example, a stressful time, mental illness, medications, special life circumstances? Other useful information includes sex, age, and current state of mind.

I graduated from college about a month ago, and I realize that I am not exactly in one of the best positions of my life right now. My final semester did a lot out of me. I thought that I would have a position lined up at my college after I graduated, but due to some miscommunications among several individuals and departments, it didn't work out. The disappointment from that and the anxiety of what I would do within my year after college took a hit on me, as well as some last minute drama between some close friends and I, which was probably due to our heightened emotions and insecurities about graduating. The combination of my Asperger's, OCD, and trouble with Anxiety certainly didn't help with any of these factors because it was difficult to get past obsessing or worrying about my current situation. 

I feel like I'm at a moment in my life where I'm trying to rediscover myself, again. I feel that this is a reason why I'm turning to MBTI; I want to find out who I really am and go from there. My Junior year in college, I went abroad for a semester, absolutely thrived, and my self-confidence flourished because I realized that I had all of this potential. But the final semester of my Senior year, I felt that who I was and what I stood for starting to shatter. I found and still find myself trying to balance my ideals and beliefs with my relationships, and these two worlds can clash when a loved one and I don't necessarily agree on something.

I am a woman (cisgendered). I am also on an anti-anxiety med that helps me control my OCD, which I've been on since high school. In case you're wondering, I'm also seeing my therapist from high school again, and she's helping me deal with a lot of the stuff I'm going through right now!

1. Click on this link: Look at the random photo for about 30 seconds. Copy and paste it here, and write about your impression of it.

This photo looks like it's of an old brown building in Europe against a stormy sky. The sign in the lower center, near the entrance of the building, indicates to me that this is set in Europe because it is a red circle sign with blue numbers in it, just like speed limit signs. At least, that's how I remember them . I really like how the light glows and pulsates from the building, it makes it look simultaneously inviting and ominous. I wonder if the building is home to several apartments. If so, do people still live there? None of the windows or doors are borded up, but the area looks like it's completely void of people.

2. You are with a group of people in a car, heading to a different town to see your favourite band/artist/musician. Suddenly, the car breaks down for an unknown reason in the middle of nowhere. What are your initial thoughts? What are your outward reactions?

My initial thoughts would probably be "Wait, did we stop? What's going on? Oh no! Is someone hurt? Did the car break down?"

I think that I at first would not initially realize what is going on and it would take me a bit of time to fully process the situation, but I would probably tap into extraverted feeling and first ask "Is everyone okay?" then "What happened?". 

3. You somehow make it to the concert. The driver wants to go to the afterparty that was announced (and assure you they won't drink so they can drive back later). How do you feel about this party? What do you do?

I would be a bit iffy about the afterparty since I didn't originally have that in our plan into how we'd spend the evening. If my other friends weren't gung-ho about going to the party, I would probably suggest that we go back now, or only spend 30 minutes (if we decide the party isn't fun) or an hour (if the party is fun). If my other friends are pumped to go to the party, I'll put my best game face on and do it for them.

4. On the drive back, your friends are talking. A friend makes a claim that clashes with your current beliefs. What is your inward reaction? What do you outwardly say?

My inward and initial reaction would probably be "Why on earth would they think that??". I would either do one of two things. I would either say, "Well, that might be true in some situations, but what about...", "Well, I'm actually not so sure about that", or "I actually feel...". If I didn't feel like engaging in a debate or that I didn't want to cause further contention with my speaking friend, I'd probably initially say nothing, but may speak about it later with another friend.

5. What would you do if you actually saw/experienced something that clashes with your previous beliefs, experiences, and habits?

If someone that I was close to was committing something I disliked, but didn't feel strongly about it, I would disapprove of it, but I wouldn't say anything to them or try to stop it. If it was something that I did feel strongly about, I would say something to them. I recall a few times when I've told two different friends that I was really concerned about them doing LSD (fortunately they aren't regular users) just because I personally know people that have had horrendous experiences with the drug, and that I was concerned for their safety.

If it was committed by someone I did not know, I probably wouldn't say anything to them directly, but voice my disapproval of it to someone I'm close to later. But if that person was harming another person or being, like if I saw someone harassing another person, I would find a way to get help.

6. What are some of your most important values? How did you come about determining them? How can they change?

My most important values are that of loyalty, empathy, honesty, and respect. Two recent values I've especially tried to take to heart are to do the right thing, even when things may go poorly for you and you may not get anything out of your action, and that my opinions are not the only ones that matter. I came about determining them from my upbringing with these values, and finding that they help establish the kind of environment I want to be a part of. They can change when I find that people directly violate them in their interactions with me. When someone acts in a very unkind way towards me, I reexamine the situation. If I determine that they were just having a crappy day or that I wronged them in some way, I will continue to show them empathy. If they were just being a jerk or wanted to screw me over, I will show them less empathy or none at all.

7. a) What about your personality most distinguishes you from everyone else? b) If you could change one thing about you personality, what would it be? Why?

I think that I am more willing to stand up to the people that I care about and call them out on their actions or what they've said. Not in an authoritarian way, but in a "Hey, I noticed that you said/did X. I know that you were...but what about the fact that...?" way. It can definitely intimidate some people, and I realize that I can sometimes be harsh in what I say. 

But if I currently had to change one thing about my personality, I wish that I would be less defensive. When someone says something that I don't agree with or criticizes me, I can't help but take it to heart. I feel that's where my introverted feeling (Fi) either kicks in as a hijacking function or it gets warped because I'm tapping too much into Fi and not enough into extraverted feeling. It would save me a lot of grief and insecurity!

8. How do you treat hunches or gut feelings? In what situations are they most often triggered?

I treat hunches and gut feelings as feelings of truth most of the time. Sometimes I'll initially deny them, but then I'll give in to them. They can be triggered in random situations, but sometimes when something significant, whether it is positive or negative, is about to happen to me or someone I care about.

9. a) What activities energize you most? b) What activities drain you most? Why?

Doing activities with friends, like watching a movie or playing a video game together, energizes me. Having personal and insightful conversations that yield some sort of "solution" (no matter how big or small) with people also invigorates me. I also find that I'm energized by doing physical activity, going to beautiful but quiet places, or by working on a creative project, like sewing or writing.

Interacting with a group of people I have nothing in common with, as well as going to places with a lot of external stimuli (is this tapping into extraverted feeling?) for extended periods of time. Even though I really like fashion and window shopping, I get absolutely drained when I spend more than two hours at a shopping mall. I can also even get drained when I spend excessive amounts of time with a friend, a significant other, or a family member.

I find that introspection can both energize and drain me. The former tends to happen when I hit a moment of insight, and the latter does when I get really critical of myself and can play mind games.

10. What do you repress about your outward behavior or internal thought process when around others? Why?

I try to repress resentment towards others, unless it's someone who I cannot stand, when I interact with others. I find that too much resentment and anger can exhaust me, and I feel guilty if I start disliking someone without a legitimate reason. 
When I notice that a group of people are receiving a person's behavior or actions negatively, I will usually try and suppress that quality, especially if it's something that I have engaged in in the past.


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## candiedViolet (Jun 23, 2013)

I forgot to mention that I am 99.9% confident that I am Enneagram 1w2. I find it funny that I'm so dead set on that description and reject all the other Enneagram types, yet I find myself torn between 5 MBTI types!


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## candiedViolet (Jun 23, 2013)

Oh gosh, did I write way too much? Should I redo this questionnare and make it a lot shorter?


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## The Madman (Feb 20, 2013)

candiedViolet said:


> I came about determining them from my upbringing with these values, and finding that they help establish the kind of environment I want to be a part of. They can change when I find that people directly violate them in their interactions with me.


Your feeling is most likely dominated by Fe. Fe uses values to maintain harmony in the external world. Fi uses values to maintain harmony in the internal world (yourself). One thing to remember is that extroverted functions are adaptable, while introverted functions are not. Extroverted feeling types are usually willing to sacrifice some of their values in order to maintain harmony in the external world, or switch to different values (usually the values of the external environment). Fi, on the other hand, does not care much about the external environment. Fi-dominants are more likely to say "If something is disrupting my values, I will change/destroy it so that I am in harmony again, even if the act destroys cripples my environment."
Fi users see Fe users as conformist sheep; Fe users see Fi users as closed minded and selfish.


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## candiedViolet (Jun 23, 2013)

Thank you very much, The Madman! 

I do see your point about *Fe being dominant* in me. I know that I do have morals and principles that I try to stick to, but they can be flexible. If someone disagrees with me on something and brings up some very convincing points, I'm more likely to meet the both of us halfway or even start to see their perspective. When I talk to other people about a crisis and they offer up a suggestion, after evaluating it (probably with my *Introverted Perceiving* function), I'm likely to accept it, even if I don't right away . Which isn't to say that I do both of these activites all the time, but do _any_ MBTI types stick to their dominant function all the time? Of course not. 

Would you say that I am an ExFJ now? What am I probably using as my secondary function: *Introverted Sensing or Introverted Intuition*? It's one I've been tackling with for a while, but I feel like I lean more towards *Ni*.


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## The Madman (Feb 20, 2013)

candiedViolet said:


> When I talk to other people about a crisis and they offer up a suggestion, after evaluating it (probably with my *Introverted Perceiving* function), I'm likely to accept it, even if I don't right away .


Perceiving functions do not evaluate. They perceive the information obtained from the senses in a manner in which your mind will understand and be able to judge + act upon.

The auxiliary and tertiary functions are foggy parts of type dynamics, for several reasons, three of which are listed below:
1) They are the weakest functions in the psyche. The inferior function is the second strongest function, as it controls the cognition of the subconscious. However, the inferior function is difficult to control, since it belongs to the subconscious.
2) Introversion/Extroversion: MBTI claims that the auxiliary function must be of the opposite attitude of the dominant function. However, some Jungian analysts claim that the auxiliary function is of the same attitude as the dominant function. For example, instead of Fe-Ni, it would be Fe-Ne. Personally, I think that both are possible.
3) Usage of auxiliary and tertiary: MBTI claims that the auxiliary function is preferred over the tertiary function. However, some Jungian analysts argue that the auxiliary and tertiary functions can be used equally. Once again, I think that both can be true: an individual can repress their tertiary a lot, or use both the auxiliary and tertiary functions relatively equally.

Now, you wish to determine your main Perceiving function. It is difficult to determine this with your answers, since Fe consumes all. You seem to have a very strong dominant Fe. However, I think that your belief of Introverted Intuition is correct, since you are tired by too much external sensation, and you think much of your future (usually an Intuitive thing to do). 
What is your understanding of Introverted Intuition? This function is generally misunderstood _a lot_.


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## candiedViolet (Jun 23, 2013)

I guess that would make sense that "perceiving" describes what function you use to perceive information with. Thanks for the clarification!

Let's see, from what I understand, Introverted Intuition to be is the ability to take pieces of information that's inside your head and arrange it into larger patterns. What happens is that if something doesn't fit within the box, it gets chucked out. It's also a very forward and future-minded function, as opposed to the past-minded Introverted Sensation, which doesn't mean that Nis are more progressive and Sis are more backwards thinking and unwelcoming of change. A close ISFJ friend of mine is a very progressive individual, but she tends to have more faith in rules and systems of order than I do. 

I once saw a quote that described what the four functions and their levels of introversion/extroversion say, and it said that Ni says "This will be". So from what I can understand, Nis can be visionary and imagine what the future, or their idea of the future, will be like and work towards that goal. How does my interpretation of Ni stack up? Is it feeding into some stereotypes?


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## The Madman (Feb 20, 2013)

candiedViolet said:


> Let's see, from what I understand, Introverted Intuition to be is the ability to take pieces of information that's inside your head and arrange it into larger patterns. What happens is that if something doesn't fit within the box, it gets chucked out.


Yes, that is a simplistic description of Ni. Ni is an observing perceiving function. It observes the world around it, not interacting with it, and builds up an abstract understanding of the world. It does not judge the abstract facts it gains, it merely patches them into one observatory filtering system. Therefore, any new piece of information is filtered through the system, and an abstract meaning of the information related to the filtering system comes out.
Ni works in the eternal, or detached from time. Therefore, it has a very good understanding on how the past, present, and future connect. Think of being in a maze. When you are in a maze, it is difficult to get out. But if you are hovering over the maze, it suddenly becomes much easier to find the exit. This is how Ni works with time. Therefore, Ni types can be quite visionary, as they see how past and present actions influence the future.
One major aspect of Ni is _detachment_. Ni is detached from the world it observes. The inferior Se tries to force the individual to become attached to the world. This creates a pattern of the Ni individual usually appearing lazy but having sporadic bursts of energy in which they implement their ideas in their heads to reality.
Also, Ni is resistant to change in their abstract viewpoints. Imagine if someone told you that your eyes did not sense light properly, and had to be changed? This is how an Ni dominant would see someone telling them to change their abstract viewpoint.

Of course, an auxiliary Ni is much more diluted than a dominant Ni. An auxiliary Ni serves the dominant function; in your case, Fe. Ni would analyze the external values which Fe uses; it would determine how these values will impact the environment in the future, and the central purposes of the values detached from time, in eternity. Basically, it would show how following the values would follow out, thus guiding Fe into choosing which values to use to maintain external harmony.

This is my abstract definition of Ni. Do you relate to it? 
Of course, my definition may be wrong.


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## candiedViolet (Jun 23, 2013)

That actually makes a lot of sense, and thank you! 

I do see Ni acting as an auxiliary function to my Fe. I look at how people interact and what they say, and I analyze those things, and I come away with values that I see being important to my life and that will improve things for others in the future.

One example I can think of occurred last summer, when after reading and listening to the opinions of others, I accepted the value/fact that my voice & opinions were not always welcome or needed in certain environments. Growing up, I had accepted from my external environment, such as school, that I always had a right to my opinion and to voice it. Last summer, I learned the harsh lesson that my opinions will never be welcomed in some spaces, especially ones that are outside of my experiences and identities. This was a very hard lesson to stomach at first, but I realized that this value complemented my own inner ideals. In order to have a better world and future, one of the first things we have to do is have spaces where people of marginalized identities can freely talk, voice their opinions, and be themselves, and letting outside voices into these spaces can be harmful and unproductive.


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## The Madman (Feb 20, 2013)

candiedViolet said:


> That actually makes a lot of sense, and thank you!
> 
> I do see Ni acting as an auxiliary function to my Fe. I look at how people interact and what they say, and I analyze those things, and I come away with values that I see being important to my life and that will improve things for others in the future.
> 
> One example I can think of occurred last summer, when after reading and listening to the opinions of others, I accepted the value/fact that my voice & opinions were not always welcome or needed in certain environments. Growing up, I had accepted from my external environment, such as school, that I always had a right to my opinion and to voice it. Last summer, I learned the harsh lesson that my opinions will never be welcomed in some spaces, especially ones that are outside of my experiences and identities. This was a very hard lesson to stomach at first, but I realized that this value complemented my own inner ideals. In order to have a better world and future, one of the first things we have to do is have spaces where people of marginalized identities can freely talk, voice their opinions, and be themselves, and letting outside voices into these spaces can be harmful and unproductive.


Right now, my educated guess is that you are an ENFJ, with a strong Fe. However, I may not be completely right. The only person who can who can fully determine who you are MBTI type and otherwise, is you, even though determining who you are is the hardest thing ever.


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## candiedViolet (Jun 23, 2013)

I got a PM from a user on here saying that they thought I was an INFJ because I reminded them of an INFJ relative, so I'm debating the different types and trying to see which I fit the best into. 

Thank you for all of your help through this! I appreciate it very much, and it was nice getting a detailed second opinion !


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## Psychopomp (Oct 3, 2012)

candiedViolet said:


> Thank you very much, The Madman!
> 
> I do see your point about *Fe being dominant* in me. I know that I do have morals and principles that I try to stick to, but they can be flexible. If someone disagrees with me on something and brings up some very convincing points, I'm more likely to meet the both of us halfway or even start to see their perspective. When I talk to other people about a crisis and they offer up a suggestion, after evaluating it (probably with my *Introverted Perceiving* function), I'm likely to accept it, even if I don't right away . Which isn't to say that I do both of these activites all the time, but do _any_ MBTI types stick to their dominant function all the time? Of course not.
> 
> Would you say that I am an ExFJ now? What am I probably using as my secondary function: *Introverted Sensing or Introverted Intuition*? It's one I've been tackling with for a while, but I feel like I lean more towards *Ni*.


Mutable perspective is distinctly Ne. Ni introverts their perspective, their comprehension, their view. Ne shares and brainstorms and plays dress up with abstract conclusions. There is an interesting phenomenon when Si types come on these forums to be typed. You can ragdoll them all around because if you make a good argument, they will humor it, usually... at least if they haven't gotten typing locked down into their Si. Aka, if they don't have a type, they will seem to half-agree with everyone's perspective and can even find a multitude of them a bit disorienting. This is low order Ne. 

Ni will do all this off-screen and will more want to hear reasoning and processes rather than ideas and conclusions. I think you are a clear example of Ne in this. I think, then, that you are an Si/Ne user - if this holds up.



candiedViolet said:


> That actually makes a lot of sense, and thank you!
> 
> I do see Ni acting as an auxiliary function to my Fe. I look at how people interact and what they say, and I analyze those things, and I come away with values that I see being important to my life and that will improve things for others in the future.
> 
> One example I can think of occurred last summer, when after reading and listening to the opinions of others, I accepted the value/fact that my voice & opinions were not always welcome or needed in certain environments. Growing up, I had accepted from my external environment, such as school, that I always had a right to my opinion and to voice it. Last summer, I learned the harsh lesson that my opinions will never be welcomed in some spaces, especially ones that are outside of my experiences and identities. This was a very hard lesson to stomach at first, but I realized that this value complemented my own inner ideals. In order to have a better world and future, one of the first things we have to do is have spaces where people of marginalized identities can freely talk, voice their opinions, and be themselves, and letting outside voices into these spaces can be harmful and unproductive.


Note that you immediately humor and 'take on' the conclusion, as Ne would in low order, and then to support and bolster the 'hypothesis', you offer sensory (anecdotal) connections as possible proofs. Relating anecdote as self-evident in meaning is distinctly Si rather than Ni. Note that to achieve your ideal of a better world, you offer a system. A boundary, a separation. The goal is to protect and nurture. 

Let us not marginalize ESFJ to say that it cannot think on this level. My ESFJ conceived and runs a program much like the one you mentioned, specifically for anti-bullying... called 'Bulletproof', towards the goal of a better world - where people can find a voice and share their strengths in a safe environment. Real boundaries to facilitate all perspectives. Si/Ne. I imagine that ENFJ can and would do this sort of thing, but ENFJ (whoops! I typoed this before) tends to be much more 'high-level' and abstract to the point of being less likely to engage in such a relatively mundane and procedural solution.

I don't see any Ni in these posts, and a tertiary Ne is more than enough to infuse N into your thoughts and speech in the right context... 

I suggest ESFJ for you.


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## QueenOfCats (Jan 28, 2011)

Either an Fe dom or Fe aux


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## candiedViolet (Jun 23, 2013)

Thank you for your feedback!

I have honestly never seen myself as an ESFJ after reading multiple things about the type. I just can't picture myself using Si as my secondary function. I think I seemed so agreeable with the Madman's perspective because I saw that it was fitting to how I interact with other people .

I genuinely believe that I use Ni as a dominant or secondary function. I have a tendency of getting lost within my head and ignoring what's going on in the outside world. Sometimes people have to wave a hand in front of my face or repeat my name multiple times to get me out of my head.


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## candiedViolet (Jun 23, 2013)

That's what I'm thinking too. Thank you very much for your feedback!


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## Psychopomp (Oct 3, 2012)

candiedViolet said:


> Thank you for your feedback!
> 
> I have honestly never seen myself as an ESFJ after reading multiple things about the type. I just can't picture myself using Si as my secondary function. I think I seemed so agreeable with the Madman's perspective because I saw that it was fitting to how I interact with other people .
> 
> I genuinely believe that I use Ni as a dominant or secondary function. I have a tendency of getting lost within my head and ignoring what's going on in the outside world. Sometimes people have to wave a hand in front of my face or repeat my name multiple times to get me out of my head.


What other indications do you have that you are an Ni? What about the descriptions of ESFJ don't fit? What about the descriptions of ENFJ do?

Where are you reading these descriptions?


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## candiedViolet (Jun 23, 2013)

I've been reading Lenore Thomson's _Personality Type: An Owner's Manual_, which a friend of mine who is really into Myers-Briggs recommended. 

This quote on ENFJs really stood out to me because it reminded me more of myself:

"Say, for example, that someone in a group accuses another of hypocrisy. Both ESFJs and ENFJs will head off conflict by steering the conversation in a more positive direction. ESFJs, who understand statements as senseate facts, have no choice but to circumvent a disagreeable one- by changing the subject or registering polite disapproval. ENFJs, however, handle the situation differently. They use their Intuition to see the potential good in the accusation- to see where the person's perspective can be shifted. 'Let's look at hypocrisy," the type might suggest, "Don't our high standards always fall a little short in the arena of real-life choices?' What the ENFJ has done is to restate the person's position from an Extraverted Feeling viewpoint, thus 'modeling' a more empathic way of looking at the situation." (359-360)

I related more to the ENFJ in this quote because I'm more likely to engage someone in a friendly debate if we have disagreeing viewpoints, and to base my counter point around Extraverted Feeling: cultural norms, social systems, and the like. 

To me, ESFJs seem like the type that think "the nail that sticks out gets hammered down", which is an attitude I do not appreciate. Particularly since I experienced (and still experience, to an extent) periods of social isolation and exclusion. I honestly feel like I haven't heard anything positive about ESFJs in my time, and that either says that people often stereotype them negatively or that the type rubs me completely the wrong way.

You also asked which descriptions of ESFJs I think *do not* fit me. Here are some of them:
* "Their questions center around common values and connections in the community: Are you married? Do you live in the neighborhood?" (350)
* "The absence of behaviors they associate with a particular role or social occasion can hurt or offend them" (360). 
* ESFJs want their interests and values to be recognized as representative of their social position
* ESFJs don't know how they stand on an issue until they talk to other people
* ESFJs feel guilty about taking the time to relax. I _rarely _feel guilty about taking leisurely time. I often look forward to it.
* "Even an attempt to talk about a bad situation [within a larger group like a Church] can strike these types as disloyalty to the Group," (354). When I was in my sorority's chapter at school, I wouldn't talk about issues within my sorority in a public forum, but I would discuss it with members of my chapter, as well as some non-Greek friends and family members. 
* 


Here are ones I *do* feel that fit me some of the time:
* When someone needs help with organizing something or taking a responsibility, ESFJs will do it.
* They solve problems by seeking a consensus for it
* ESFJs have a flair for color and pattern
* "When ESFJs discover the pleasure of being received as they are and not simply for what they do, they also find that they can separate themselves from people's opinions of their outward behaviors; they aren't so wounded by criticism," (357)

Here are ENFJ attributes which I know fit myself:
* They have an interest in the journeys people make and how they're negotiated (357)
* "ENFJs want to make people aware of their inner scripts so that they can get past them and develop more realistic ways of acting in the world" (358)
* They're highly receptive listeners. However, I do find myself most of the time going to my friends more than they come to me.
* ENFJs have a difficult time saying no
* "Their ability to see the positive aspects of anyone's position can make them feel indecisive, as though they had no firm position of their own, or inadequate, because their standards for themselves are so high. (359) This is especially true to the perfectionistic and self-critical part of my nature!
* ENFJs develop the habit of bringing alternate views of reality into harmony with their own (360)
* They think on the true meaning of life and what we're really here for
* The more ENFJs focus on ideal relationships, the less that they see people as individuals. (361) 
* In well-developed ENFJs, Extraverted Feeling encourages them to pursue art or music (361-362)
* They have a particular problem with displays of anger (362). I've become more accepting of people's bursts of anger over time, however.
* ENFJs have a harder time putting themselves into "their own shoes" than that of others (363)

Does this help you at all? Thank you for your feedback and willingness to engage in this conversation with me!


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## candiedViolet (Jun 23, 2013)

Could you please reply with specific examples from what I say that indicates that I use Si?

Otherwise, could you please ask me some questions that would help me find out if I use Si, Ni, or Ne? Thank you!


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## Psychopomp (Oct 3, 2012)

@_candiedViolet_ - I spent some time considering how to approach this. 

First, it concerns me that so often people reject the idea of ESFJ due to negative stereotypes. Si is a stereotyping function by it's nature. It compares based on what the senses have taken in over time. It's natural for an Si to compare type by noting how like or unlike certain other people they are. As an Si (TiNeSiFe) I do that very much. I base my view of types strongly off of Si comparisons and connections. 

It is ironic then, that those I 'accuse' of being ESFJ so often abjure me with those very sorts of comparisons. They use Si to explain how they are not Si.

I assume that your request for examples would be followed up with your brain connecting those examples to people you know and have known... or what you imagine ESFJ/ENFJ to be based on that sort of categorical modeling. It's specifically Si cognition to do this. I know because I do it (see what I did there? META, right?).

I'm So Meta, Even This Acronym.

Anyway... let's play the game of stereotypes, then.

As for the stereotypes:

1) Nail that sticks out. NO! Having categorical minds, I'd say that ESFJs are aware of nails that stick out... but do they hammer them down? I am sure some do. My step-grandma certainly would wring her hands at someone going on a wayward path, yes. She wouldn't hammer so much as just fret. My sister would cheer them on! She prizes individuality in her children and encourages them to be colorful, unique people. Why? Because of her experiences. She has learned, using Si, that colorful and unique people are the best sort of people. She was a pariah in her youth and the fringe crowd became her people, so when her Si engages to tell her what is best and what isn't... she says 'live free! go wild! be yourself!'. I'd argue that she is militant about free thinking individuality. She thinks that people who force kids into boxes are bad people. She's seen it and what it can do and she won't stand for it. 

It's interesting... we know that extraverted functions are 'consensus', right? Te seeks consensus, Fe too. Ne does, too, I know and it famously objective and 'brainstorming' - Ne types together are very consensus-oriented in theorizing. Se as well is about objectivity and consensus. We know that introverted functions are subjective and private, right? Ti is quite subjective and exclusive, as is Ni and certainly Fi. So, what about Si? Consensus! Wait...... wait.... Ti/Fi/Ni are all marching to their own subjective drum, all others be damned... yet Si is where the traditionalist sheep go? Not so. Si is just as personal and subjective and will absolutely exclude and reject input. The crux is not consensus.. it's experience. If an Si grows up in a circus, they will think quite well of freaks and oddities, won't they? Or, if they grow up in a conservative religious community that abuses them and those they love, will they stand idly by and follow the crowd? No way. They will believe what they see through all their connected categorical experiences.. and the results are utterly subjective and personal and thus can go all over the map.

Just the other day my sister asked me to come over and teach her kids all about agnosticism, because one of them had heard about it, disparagingly, from a friend. She didn't want them to fall into those ignorant notions, but she knows I am agnostic and fairly educated on the subject so I am sitting there teaching her 3, 6, and 8 year old kids about not believing in God. My sister believes in God. So much for stereotypes. I asked her why she is open to agnosticism for her kids and she was a bit confused at the question, but then she responds like it were the most obvious thing in the world, "well, you're an agnostic...." By that she meant, "You are an agnostic and I've observed you my whole life and you are clearly intelligent and moral... I am open to any idea (Ne) so long as I have precedence that I accept to support that it's safe (Si).... so why wouldn't I?"

I am confident that whatever belief I held, she would accept as valid and good simply because I held it and she knows me and my mind. She is quite whimsical and, well, agnostic, about ideas so long as she has a concrete example of someone with that viewpoint that she can 'stereotype' against. Rather, her mind immediately searches for an example of such a thing in her life that worked or didn't, and she uses that as her anchor. 

2) Let's play devil's advocate and show some of the darker side of xNFJ. To level the playing field. Let's start with this: 

"ENFJs develop the habit of bringing alternate views of reality into harmony with their own".

Doesn't that just sound lovely? Such a positive spin on a sometimes rather ugly trait. What this also means is that xNFJs are zealots for the cause. Ni is Si but abstracted and high-level. So, this: 

""Even an attempt to talk about a bad situation [within a larger group like a Church] can strike these types as disloyalty to the Group," (354). When I was in my sorority's chapter at school, I wouldn't talk about issues within my sorority in a public forum, but I would discuss it with members of my chapter, as well as some non-Greek friends and family members."

Can indeed be true... but the Ni version is a doozy. Instead of loyalty to a real group of people, the Ni bears down on those whose world view violates their own. I live in a conservative Christian area (the most religious metro area in the US, Provo Utah) and while I often encounter ESFJs get all in a bunch about group loyalty, I see ENFJs get in a bunch about theological deviants. I am currently in a terrible situation where a lifelong friend, an ENFJ, has slowly stopped attending a game night we've been doing as friend for over a decade. He would not mention why. Upon pulling out every card I had, I finally got him to admit why. It was because we, over time, have stopped seeing the world as he does. If he were an ESFJ he might have said, 'because you all aren't Mormon and I think it's a bad influence on me'. Instead, he abstracted it. He felt we were 'out of alignment' and he feels 'isolated', and that our 'oneness is now aloneness' for him. He feels marginalized and doesn't value our decades long friendship anymore because I don't share his world view (conservative Mormon). He admits freely that being around even moderate, much less liberal, people is draining to him and he finds his motivation and affection diminishing daily. Brilliant!

I have a crazier tale. A mother and daughter, devout in the faith. The daughter is straight and narrow if there ever was such a thing. The mother dismisses the daughter's faith as 'memorized' and lacking true comprehension and zeal, even naive and stupid. She sees her, younger, ESFP daughter as fundamentally shallow and lacking in substance. Anyway, the first daughter, the devoted daughter, is discovered to have had sex before marriage. Big no no in the Church. The mother will not speak to the daughter, can barely look at her. Tells the daughter that her faith was a lie to allow herself to soil herself in that way. Admits to seeing her daughter as diminished and realizing that all her daughter was doing was rote and that she never connected to the truth of her belief. 

Mother: INFJ (I didn't type them, they did the official tests and have had it all confirmed rather liberally - they actually paid for testing, but they are rich so I guess that is what they do).

Daughter: ESFJ 

My sister knows both of these stories. She ripped that INFJ mom a new one. My favorite line: "You ain't goddamn Mary Magdelene, you are her MOTHER. Get your head out of your ass." HAHA! The woman was unmoved, so certain of her abstract world view was she. It was my sister, who had a rather wild/rebellious youth, that ended up comforting and offering perspective and hope to the now-pariah daughter. 

She called me after hearing about my troubles with my friend as well. I think she said, "Why would anyone ever do that? That is crazy. Friends for 15 years and he just drops you because he is too crazy to listen to you not be crazy?" 

Anyway, I know that due to the demographics of my area, I am privy to some rather extreme examples... but I have plenty of liberally minded ENFJ friends that I can offer anecdotes of that lead to the same conclusion. Si and Ni both share the same fundamental danger... that of absolute views. The only difference is how abstract and high-level it is. Focused on the essence or the surface or whatever words you use to describe N vs S.

I think that the stuff you listed about each type is true for the most part, yes. However, almost half of the stuff you listed for ENFJ can also be true of ESFJ. Like this: 

"They think on the true meaning of life and what we're really here for"

Of course ESFJ thinks about that. Honestly, sometimes I wonder if some ENFJs do. Pondering the abstract with an open mind is the purview of Ne, which ESFJs possess. It's worse than absurd to say that ENFJs do that and ESFJs don't. Craziness. Find me an ESFJ that answers that 'nah, not me, no sir'. Silly. EDIT: That being said, I am sure ENFJs spend more time consciously engaging the abstract and thus are definitely more likely to have explored such questions more directly and deeply (and subjectively).

I am going to mention @_Meadow_ and @_littleblackdress_, both of whom I've accused of being ESFJ, I think... so they can also endure my diatribe. Sorry that it's so long and anecdotal...


EDIT: I do not mean to insinuate that xNFJs are crazies or that they are all like the above. Far from it. Just like xSFJ they are a dynamic lot that has many strengths and many challenges to overcome. If the situation were reversed, I'd throw ESFJ under the bus to illustrate the point just the same. I just wanted the love and hate doled out in equal measure. 

That being said, I did want to add that my ENFJ friend (who I can easily confirm the type of if someone wants to doubt the anecdote) once called Imagine by John Lennon, 'immature' and 'irresponsible'. LOL! We actually got to raised voices on that one. I once told an ESFJ that story, one who is obscenely indoctrinated in the Church here in Utah, about that. Her only response was to sigh and mutter "what a retard". Further illustrating the difference of Ne and Ni.. even in the person of ESFJ vs ENFJ.


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## Meadow (Sep 11, 2012)

arkigos said:


> I am going to mention @_Meadow_ and @_littleblackdress_, both of whom I've accused of being ESFJ, I think... so they can also endure my diatribe. Sorry that it's so long and anecdotal...


In my case "accused" is correct lol. I can't remember if you said I might be ESFJ, but I'll comment on it since someone else said the same thing. These are not just some characteristics I have, but the strongest ones: curiosity about all manner of things; need for freedom, change and new ideas; non-attachment to group think. Though I might have used Si when trying to explain who I am, assuming I'm ESFJ would require a rewrite of every MBTI book that discusses characteristics of SJ's as well as an entirely different understanding of Fe than I've come across, since Fe as it's written is low on my list of my outward priorities and how I see the world.


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