# INTJ or ENTJ



## Blystone (Oct 11, 2012)

I've been operating under the assumption of using Ni for a while now, but I feel there's a possibility it could be Te manifesting with auxiliary Ni. 

Thank you to anyone who actually reads this, I'm sure there are better ways to spend your time. 

*1) What aspect of your personality made you unsure of your type?
*Memories from my childhood, and a lot of introspection. 

*2) What do you yearn for in life?
*Freedom and happiness.

* Why?
*There's no point in living if you're not free or happy. 

*3) Think about a time where you felt like you were at your finest. Tell us what made you feel that way.
*I've never felt that way.

*4) What makes you feel inferior?
*Nothing.
*
5) What tends to weigh on your decisions? (Do you think about people, pro-cons, how you feel about it, etc.)*
I take everything relevant to the context of the situation into consideration. 

*6) When working on a project what is normally your emphasis? *
My emphasis is on quality and efficiency.

*Do you like to have control of the outcome?
*I do.

*7) Describe us a time where you had a lot of fun. How is your memory of it? *
The funnest times I've had were those of intense stimulation. Which are too personal to share. But talks,debates, and arguments are always fun and stimulating. 

*8) When you want to learn something new, what feels more natural for you? (Are you more prone to be hands on, to theorize, to memorize, etc)*
Theorizing and hands on. Mostly hands on if it's a physical object, theorizing when it comes to ideas and concepts. Aren't most people like this?
*
9) How organized do you to think of yourself as?*
Well I'm not unorganized. I have everything where I want it. 
*
10) How do you judge new ideas? You try to understand the principles behind it to see if they make sense or do you look for information that supports it?*
Understanding the principles would be the only logical thing to do. 

*11) You find harmony by making sure everyone is doing fine and belonging to a given group or by making sure that you follow what you believe and being yourself?*
Staying true to myself. I get angry when I unwillingly conform to collective ideals. 

*12) Are you the kind that thinks before speaking or do you speak before thinking? *
I generally think before I speak, but when I get in the "zone", so to speak, it can be rather fluid and unconscious. 

*Do you prefer one-on-one communication or group discussions?*
One-to-one by far. But I don't have issues with group discussions. 

*13) Do you jump into action right away or do you like to know where are you jumping before leaping? *
Depends on the situation, but in general, I prefer to have a plan before taking action. 

*Does action speaks more than words?
*Absolutely.
*
14) It's Saturday. You're at home, and your favorite show is about to start. Your friends call you for a night out. What will you do?*
Definitely go out. I avoid vapid and toxic relationships; the friends I have are worth the time spent. 

*15) How do you act when you're stressed out?*
Angry, irrational, lose focus, seek information.

*16) What makes you dislike the personalities of some people?* 
unjustified narcissism. Incompetence. Vapidness. Pseudo-intelligence. 

*17) Is there anything you really like talking about with other people?*
Ideas, concepts, and theories. 

*18) What kind of things do pay the least attention to in your life*
Things which aren't important.

*19) How do your friends perceive you? *
I don't entirely know. From what little feedback I've had they don't find me egotistical. I feel they find me cold and unemotional. 

*What is wrong about their perception? *
I'm probably not as cold or unemotional as I seem.
*
What would your friends never say about your personality?*
Lacking integrity, average, submissive, violent, forgettable. 

*20) You got a whole day to do whatever you like. What kind of activities do you feel like doing?*
Exercising, shooting, walking, theorizing, learning, enjoying nature.


----------



## DJeter (May 24, 2011)

I recommend doing Spades' questionnaire... it's much better... I'll take a look at this, but doing that other one will help everyone out a lot more...


----------



## DJeter (May 24, 2011)

Looking it over (could you write more expansively for the Spades one?) my impression is ENTJ... feeling seems to be your weak spot and based on the brevity of your answers Te could definitely be top dog... Also, you seem to become consumed by Fi when in the grip, indicating ENTJ...


----------



## cyamitide (Jul 8, 2010)

Your answers are too brief but you can try looking into your inferior function.
If you are ENTJ you would relate to inferior Fi, if INTJ then inferior Se: *Form of Inferior*


----------



## Blystone (Oct 11, 2012)

DJeter said:


> I recommend doing Spades' questionnaire... it's much better... I'll take a look at this, but doing that other one will help everyone out a lot more...


Spade's questionnaire as requested:

*0. Is there anything that may affect the way you answer the questions? For example, a stressful time, mental illness, medications, special life circumstances? Other useful information includes sex, age, and current state of mind.
*No.


*1. Click on this link: Flickr: Explore! Look at the random photo for about 30 seconds. Copy and paste it here, and write about your impression of it.*
http://oi49.tinypic.com/eg8uq1.jpg

Modern. Sleek. Fiery sky. Sky's reflection on the floor. Simplicity turning to complexity. 

*2. You are with a group of people in a car, heading to a different town to see your favourite band/artist/musician. Suddenly, the car breaks down for an unknown reason in the middle of nowhere. What are your initial thoughts? What are your outward reactions?*
Initial thoughts: identify the problem, evaluate it, fix it if possible. 

Outward reaction: Calm. Figure out what happened. 


*3. You somehow make it to the concert. The driver wants to go to the afterparty that was announced (and assure you they won't drink so they can drive back later). How do you feel about this party? 
*I don't like it. I wouldn't go. 

*What do you do?
*State my position and have them drive me home. If they refused I'd leave the group and find a way home. 

*4. On the drive back, your friends are talking. A friend makes a claim that clashes with your current beliefs. What is your inward reaction? What do you outwardly say?*
Inward reaction: Good opportunity to talk about something substantial. 

Outwardly: Ask why they believe what they believe, make what I believe known and clear, debate with them in an attempt to persuade them to accept my belief using analogies, sarcasm, and fundamental principles.

*5. What would you do if you actually saw/experienced something that clashes with your previous beliefs, experiences, and habits?


*That depends on what it is. For example: If I experienced, or witnessed, force or violence being used against a peaceful person, I would do everything in my power to protect myself or that person. If, on the other hand, it's nothing physically endangering, I'd likely keep my thoughts to myself. 
*
6. What are some of your most important values?*
Freedom, voluntarism, honesty, integrity, consistency. 

* How did you come about determining them? *
Through introspection and discernment of critical concepts and fundamentals*.

**How can they change?*
If someone can prove my values to be immoral. *


7. a) What about your personality most distinguishes you from everyone else? *
Ability to think autonomously. Not being confined to the constructs of collectivism. Avoidance of debauchery and the YOLO crowd. 

*b) If you could change one thing about you personality, what would it be? *
Not being able to fluidly, coherently explain my ideas. It's not a huge problem now, as I've worked on it over the years, but it used to be extremely debilitating as a child; knowing something was true but not knowing how to explain why.

*Why?

*It's just a really shitty feeling. 


*8. How do you treat hunches or gut feelings? In what situations are they most often triggered?

*Follow them. They've been right more times than they've been wrong. All kinds of situations, it just happens. 
*
9. a) What activities energize you most?*
Talking, arguing, debating, exercising, shooting, wrestling, fighting, learning, thinking, introspecting.


* b) What activities drain you most? *
Being around idiots, YOLOs, and large groups of people. Being decent to rude assholes. 

*Why?*
I wish I knew, I don't enjoy the feeling. 

*10. What do you repress about your outward behavior or internal thought process when around others? Why?
*My openness to different views, many of which I've already looked at and determined as invalid. I don't want people to think they can easily persuade me to believe anything they tell me.


----------



## Blystone (Oct 11, 2012)

cyamitide said:


> Your answers are too brief but you can try looking into your inferior function.
> If you are ENTJ you would relate to inferior Fi, if INTJ then inferior Se: *Form of Inferior*


Sorry about the brief answers. I did a second questionnaire, perhaps that will be more useful. 

I relate more to inferior Se, but that could just be my pre-bias, seeing as I'm quite certain on being an INTJ.


----------



## namiki (Nov 13, 2010)

Interesting. I see a lot of Te, but also Ni, definitely. Have you considered inferior-Fi and tertiary-Se? Because your answers to both questionnaires seem to point more to that, than Fi-Se, to me. You also seem fairly in touch and insync with your environment (and taking action in your environment), which suggests tertiary-Se... 

How old are you (if you want to answer that is)? Since that probably affects the stage of development your functions are at.


----------



## Blystone (Oct 11, 2012)

namiki said:


> Interesting. I see a lot of Te, but also Ni, definitely. Have you considered inferior-Fi and tertiary-Se? Because your answers to both questionnaires seem to point more to that, than Fi-Se, to me. You also seem fairly in touch and insync with your environment (and taking action in your environment), which suggests tertiary-Se...
> 
> How old are you (if you want to answer that is)? Since that probably affects the stage of development your functions are at.


Yeah, I've considered inferior Fi. I feel like Fi manifests as a way to justify and validate my beliefs for myself, a sort of irrational "I feel this is right so it is" sort of thing. Logic and reason always supercede it, but it's a go to reaction if I can't objectively prove something. 

Would a tertiary Se user walk into walls or bump into objects more often than they should? Or feel oddly uncomfortable playing most sports? 

I'm sure age can be an indicator for development of cognitive functions, but I feel deep introspection would act as a catalyst to the process, making age irrelevant.


----------



## ManWithoutHats (Jun 2, 2012)

No doubt you're an xNTJ. I agree with DJeter regarding the first questionnaire, though for the second it's a little more up in the air. The concise brevity of your answers is very Te– I get the impression that you're a judging dominant. You obviously are an Ni user but it seems to be directed through your Te– that is, it seems that you more naturally make objective judgements as information comes in rather than taking in information freely and drawing from it to make external judgments. At least, it seems to me like this is pretty prevalent in your answers, but I'm hardly in a position to say– Ni and Te are both there but to me Te seems the dominant.
Also, your wide ranging interests/activities is more stereotypical of extroversion, but that's not to say such is never true of introverts. Also, you seem to enjoy competition? I'm sure plenty of INTJs do but generally more so from ENTJs. 

A few questions that might help:
-How do you feel about leadership; do naturally find yourself taking charge when the opportunity presents itself, or are you more reluctant to take the reigns (or perhaps probably somewhere in between)?
-Do you find yourself more often pursuing goals or contemplating them? Or rather, do you generally prefer to be accomplishing something or reflecting on something(s)?
-In the strictest sense, do you see yourself as more introverted or extroverted; do you feel drained more quickly from a lack of alone-time or from a lack of socializing? It might also work to consider it apart from socializing: do you feel drained more quickly from focusing extensively on one activity/project or from switching your attention between a range of activities/projects? 

As for inferior Se vs Fi (though I may be a little out of my depth here), do you sometimes find yourself binging excessively or seeking out cheap thrills in a way uncharacteristic of your usual temperament, especially under stress (i.e. spending money, eating alot, sudden motorcycle ride cravings, etc.)? Or do you find that sometimes when seeking to accomplish something difficult or in stressful circumstances, you neglect your personal values? 
Of course, the thing about the inferior is that its mostly unconscious and supposedly not very easy to identify in yourself so much as in others, where it would be associated with those characteristics you find most disagreeable in others. "unjustified narcissism. Incompetence. Vapidness." could be _interpreted_ as a negative representation of Fi, while your feelings towards the YOLO crowd and debauchery and what not could be seen as Se (though I don't know what the YOLO crowd is (thankfully); I'm going with the context here). As for what you said about stress– irrational and emotional stuff is stereotypically inferior Fi while losing focus and seeking info are Se– not considering, of course, that all of these things are stereotypical of being human...
Other random inferior associations (only at times or when 'in the grip'):
*Fi:* fear of irrationality, disposed to neglect feelings/values of others or self, may lose touch with self (e.g. what you consider important) important, may either maintain composure by denying their emotions or lose themselves to mood swings/anger
*Se:* fear of details, disposed to neglect details, may lose touch with reality, may either reject sensory gratification as shallow/base/distractions/immature or lose themselves to binging/thrill seeking



JSRS01 said:


> Would a tertiary Se user walk into walls or bump into objects more often than they should? Or feel oddly uncomfortable playing most sports?


That's really common among INxJs (inferior Se) but I don't see why it wouldn't be true for some ENxJs as well. 


JSRS01 said:


> I'm sure age can be an indicator for development of cognitive functions, but I feel deep introspection would act as a catalyst to the process, making age irrelevant.


Not quite. Deep introspection is the natural order for most introverts– hardly a course towards the development of cognitive functions (considering the most undeveloped side of the introvert is extroverted!). Sure, introspection is always advisable and essential for self-awareness and growth, especially for an extrovert, but I find it hard to imagine it could suffice for years of life experience.


----------



## Blystone (Oct 11, 2012)

ManWithoutHats said:


> No doubt you're an xNTJ. I agree with DJeter regarding the first questionnaire, though for the second it's a little more up in the air. The concise brevity of your answers is very Te– I get the impression that you're a judging dominant. You obviously are an Ni user but it seems to be directed through your Te– that is, it seems that you more naturally make objective judgements as information comes in rather than taking in information freely and drawing from it to make external judgments. At least, it seems to me like this is pretty prevalent in your answers, but I'm hardly in a position to say– Ni and Te are both there but to me Te seems the dominant.


Firstly, thank you for your perspective. I can say with a great amount of certainty that I prefer to take in information first and analyze it over time. 




> Also, your wide ranging interests/activities is more stereotypical of extroversion, but that's not to say such is never true of introverts. Also, you seem to enjoy competition? I'm sure plenty of INTJs do but generally more so from ENTJs.


I got tired of being cooped up in my house all day. What's the point of living if you're not enjoying it? 




> A few questions that might help:
> -How do you feel about leadership; do naturally find yourself taking charge when the opportunity presents itself, or are you more reluctant to take the reigns (or perhaps probably somewhere in between)?
> -Do you find yourself more often pursuing goals or contemplating them? Or rather, do you generally prefer to be accomplishing something or reflecting on something(s)?
> -In the strictest sense, do you see yourself as more introverted or extroverted; do you feel drained more quickly from a lack of alone-time or from a lack of socializing? It might also work to consider it apart from socializing: do you feel drained more quickly from focusing extensively on one activity/project or from switching your attention between a range of activities/projects?


1. I need to control my own life. To be the dictator of my own life in a sense. I used to be reluctant to fill the role, but it's been my experience most people look for someone to lead them, so I do when and if it's necessary. I do not however have an outright desire to lead or control people; I have always preferred people think for themselves and do what they want, not succumbing to someone else's desires.

2. I only have one all encompassing goal, a vision. Every goal I set is in accordance to bringing my vision to fruition. 

3. I personally view myself as being introverted. Being alone is not a problem for me, but neither is socializing. Focusing on one project is not draining to me. I suppose focusing on many would be fairly taxing.



> As for inferior Se vs Fi (though I may be a little out of my depth here), do you sometimes find yourself binging excessively or seeking out cheap thrills in a way uncharacteristic of your usual temperament, especially under stress (i.e. spending money, eating alot, sudden motorcycle ride cravings, etc.)?


More often than I'd like to admit.




> Or do you find that sometimes when seeking to accomplish something difficult or in stressful circumstances, you neglect your personal values?


Never. Integrity is arguably my most important value. 






> As for what you said about stress– irrational and emotional stuff is stereotypically inferior Fi while losing focus and seeking info are Se– not considering, of course, that all of these things are stereotypical of being human...
> Other random inferior associations (only at times or when 'in the grip'):
> *Fi:* fear of irrationality, disposed to neglect feelings/values of others or self, may lose touch with self (e.g. what you consider important) important, may either maintain composure by denying their emotions or lose themselves to mood swings/anger
> *Se:* fear of details, disposed to neglect details, may lose touch with reality, may either reject sensory gratification as shallow/base/distractions/immature or lose themselves to binging/thrill seeking


Fi: 
I don't fear irrationality, I oppose it.
I try not to neglect the feelings and values of other.
I don't deny my emotions, but the only ones I outwardly express are anger and disgust. 


Se:
I Don't fear details, but I am annoyed when people focus on details while refusing to look at the big picture.
I don't reject sensory gratification, but it definitely isn't as important as other things such as health and family. 

I can't say I've ever lost touch with myself, but I have lost touch with reality; which was a very troubling feeling. Because of it, I've grounded myself in such a way to prevent myself from losing touch with reality ever again.


----------



## namiki (Nov 13, 2010)

JSRS01 said:


> Yeah, I've considered inferior Fi. I feel like Fi manifests as a way to justify and validate my beliefs for myself, a sort of irrational "I feel this is right so it is" sort of thing. Logic and reason always supercede it, but it's a go to reaction if I can't objectively prove something.


Hmm. I've seen both INTJs and ENTJs express something to this effect, though most ETJs I know tend to be more black-and-white about their moral beliefs and with using it to justify how they react to certain people, or certain situations. They also seem more verbally expressive of their beliefs - could be an E thing - but I get the impression that they're more 'hyper-aware' of what Fi means to them, as compared to when Fi is a tertiary. Which isn't to say that an Fi tertiary user doesn't _use _Fi in support of their dom and aux, but rather than Fi is more quietly supportive. Whereas as an inferior, a function is either completely ignored, or it 'shouts' at the person in question. 



JSRS01 said:


> Would a tertiary Se user walk into walls or bump into objects more often than they should? Or feel oddly uncomfortable playing most sports?


This does seem more inferior-Se, although I've also seen ENPs and INPs exhibiting similar 'clumsy' behaviour, so I'm tempted to say that any of the Ns might be prone to this. Therefore, it's not necessarily indicative. 



JSRS01 said:


> I'm sure age can be an indicator for development of cognitive functions, but I feel deep introspection would act as a catalyst to the process, making age irrelevant.


Not irrelevant surely! Given that a highly introspective 15 year old would probably be more self-aware than his peers, the same way a highly introspective 40 year old would be more in touch with themselves and perhaps this self-awareness would lead to better usage of their cognitive functions, but I think age would still be a factor with regard to how developed your handling of the cognitive functions are. Though naturally, introspection (amongst other factors) would make a difference too.


Overall though, the brevity of your answers, as ManWithoutHats mentioned does suggest a lot of Te. I'm not sure if this means simply that you're very in touch with Te... or that you're Te-dom. I suppose desire to lead ties in with your comfort in interacting with your environment, which might again mark the difference between E/I.


----------



## namiki (Nov 13, 2010)

I just noticed that you're E8. I'm not sure if that would make a difference to your desire to take charge and goal-orientedness (though this usually seems more E3) even if introverted, though it seems it might.


----------



## ManWithoutHats (Jun 2, 2012)

JSRS01 said:


> Firstly, thank you for your perspective. I can say with a great amount of certainty that I prefer to take in information first and analyze it over time.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Seems pretty clear to me then–


----------



## Blystone (Oct 11, 2012)

namiki said:


> I just noticed that you're E8. I'm not sure if that would make a difference to your desire to take charge and goal-orientedness (though this usually seems more E3) even if introverted, though it seems it might.


I was an unhealthy 8 for a long time, at least 6-12 months. It was in that time that I started looking into all of this stuff; MBTI, Jungian function enneagram etc. For a good 3-4 months I had thought I was a type 5. It was rather recent that I came to the conclusion that was not the case, and rather I was an unhealthy 8 that disintegrated to 5.

After researching the correlation of enneagram type and MBTI, and seeing as enneagram 8 and ENTJ as so closely correlated, I figured there was a possibility I could have mistyped being an INTJ.


----------



## namiki (Nov 13, 2010)

ManWithoutHats said:


> Seems pretty clear to me then–


Really? I could still see both. For instance inferior-Se restlessness _could _lead to wanting to get out of the house etc. Hmm.


----------



## namiki (Nov 13, 2010)

JSRS01 said:


> I was an unhealthy 8 for a long time, at least 6-12 months. It was in that time that I started looking into all of this stuff; MBTI, Jungian function enneagram etc. For a good 3-4 months I had thought I was a type 5. It was rather recent that I came to the conclusion that was not the case, and rather I was an unhealthy 8 that disintegrated to 5.
> 
> After researching the correlation of enneagram type and MBTI, and seeing as enneagram 8 and ENTJ as so closely correlated, I figured there was a possibility I could have mistyped being an INTJ.


Oh! i wonder. There are INTJ 8s, and it is quite a common enneagram type for INTJs too, although perhaps being in a state of unhealthy 5 led to you scoring introverted (the way most tests are framed). At present, your SLOAN results and personal DNA do seem to indicate INTJ over ENTJ, although I'm guessing they might have been affected by that too. 

Hmm. I still see definite Te/Ni or Ni/Te, but I can't tell what's leading. Perhaps you're an INTJ with well developed Te. The other way of interpreting your answers is to see a preference for introversion (and Ni) but definite fluidity and comfort with extroversion (and Te) where necessary.


----------



## Blystone (Oct 11, 2012)

namiki said:


> Oh! i wonder. There are INTJ 8s, and it is quite a common enneagram type for INTJs too, although perhaps being in a state of unhealthy 5 led to you scoring introverted (the way most tests are framed). At present, your SLOAN results and personal DNA do seem to indicate INTJ over ENTJ, although I'm guessing they might have been affected by that too.
> 
> Hmm. I still see definite Te/Ni or Ni/Te, but I can't tell what's leading. Perhaps you're an INTJ with well developed Te. The other way of interpreting your answers is to see a preference for introversion (and Ni) but definite fluidity and comfort with extroversion (and Te) where necessary.


The SLOAN was taken while I was "unhealthy", so that might have changed. However the current personal DNA results are new, as of this week I believe. The previous archetype I was given was "Respectful Idealist", which has now changed to "Respectful Inventor". 

I personally believe I lead with Ni. But that's my personal bias. Which is why I came here, for the fresh opinions and perspectives.


----------



## ManWithoutHats (Jun 2, 2012)

namiki said:


> Really? I could still see both. For instance inferior-Se restlessness _could _lead to wanting to get out of the house etc. Hmm.


Sure, I could probably draw up plenty of arguments for either type, and there are probably some good points that could be made, but that post to me seemed to imply a degree of certainty towards introversion. 

Also, as for inferior Se, I meant to imply that I think he is an INTJ (Se). After looking back over the post I realize that INTJ wasn't necessarily the obvious conclusion to draw from that, but the answers given for those three questions I asked seemed almost definitively INTJ (though I'd imagine you could probably judge that better than me). 1 and 2 seemed to me to be Ni dominant leaning answers and 3 obviously leans towards introversion, but I give that alot of weight as I think no one's a better judge of their own type than themselves.

Though especially now that I've reconsidered it, I could still see INTJ or ENTJ, but answers to these questions can always be interpreted a million ways.


----------



## namiki (Nov 13, 2010)

JSRS01 said:


> The SLOAN was taken while I was "unhealthy", so that might have changed. However the current personal DNA results are new, as of this week I believe. The previous archetype I was given was "Respectful Idealist", which has now changed to "Respectful Inventor".
> 
> I personally believe I lead with Ni. But that's my personal bias. Which is why I came here, for the fresh opinions and perspectives.


Both suggest that you're fairly in touch with your Fi anyway. Which might explain your answers on your beliefs and morals, emphasis on integrity etc. Just looked at your second questionnaire again, and I get the impression that independence/ non-interference >> control/ dominance for you (despite the E8) which could point to INTJ over ENTJ. 

I wouldn't say that I'm definitely drawn to concluding INTJ, since so far I really could see both, still. I suppose how you feel (i.e. whether you're dom-Ni vs dom-Te, and whether you're inferior Se or Fi) would be fairly significant. There's nothing that indicates definite ENTJ though. I'm not sure if any ENTJs might be able to contribute (_I'm _currently debating my type too, so I'm not sure how well placed I am with regard to describing what the functions mean to me either ) If it's simply the co-relation between enneagram 8 and ENTJ that makes you wonder if you're ENTJ, then that mightn't be really significant, considering that it does match Te in INTJs too.


----------



## namiki (Nov 13, 2010)

ManWithoutHats said:


> Sure, I could probably draw up plenty of arguments for either type, and there are probably some good points that could be made, but that post to me seemed to imply a degree of certainty towards introversion.
> 
> Also, as for inferior Se, I meant to imply that I think he is an INTJ (Se). After looking back over the post I realize that INTJ wasn't necessarily the obvious conclusion to draw from that, but the answers given for those three questions I asked seemed almost definitively INTJ (though I'd imagine you could probably judge that better than me). 1 and 2 seemed to me to be Ni dominant leaning answers and 3 obviously leans towards introversion, but I give that alot of weight as I think no one's a better judge of their own type than themselves.
> 
> Though especially now that I've reconsidered it, I could still see INTJ or ENTJ, but answers to these questions can always be interpreted a million ways.


Oh yes. I see what you mean now. The answers do seem to indicate a slight preference for introversion, but sufficient comfort with the corresponding extraverted function (Te) that I'm hesitant to conclude either way. Fractionally Ni over Te perhaps - though I could argue for either from the answers. You're right though: I suppose no one would know better than JSRS01 himself!


----------

