# 𝗨𝗻𝗺𝗮𝗿𝗿𝗶𝗲𝗱 𝗪𝗲𝗹𝗳𝗮𝗿𝗲 𝗠𝗼𝘁𝗵𝗲𝗿𝘀 𝗪𝗵𝗼 𝗖𝗼𝗻𝘁𝗶𝗻𝘂𝗮𝗹𝗹𝘆 𝗛𝗮𝘃𝗲 𝗕𝗮𝗯𝗶𝗲𝘀 𝗦𝗵𝗼𝘂𝗹𝗱 Have Their Welfare Checks Stopped�



## X10E8 (Apr 28, 2021)

��


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

I guess I am not sure what the system is in every state. I live in a state that is supposedly ranked much higher on providing welfare than other parts of the US.

I have seen instances where people utilize it as what it is meant for. I have then seen instances where it is pissed away. I am always going to be someone who tried to encourage occupational growth, with job skills and programming in funding over direct hand out. But that said I never feel comfortable suggesting that children should be denied health and food because of their parents poor choices.

Also unfortunately because of the way the system is set up and where I have been in working class society, I have a strong exposure, so much of what I say is closer to home than people who come from better circumstances who comment from the sidelines either direction. I do recognize how hard it is in todays economy and society for many people to truly sometimes either know how to, or be able to utilize resources to get ahead instead of stuck in the system.

Many people do not understand that we do not live in a society that has a strong support system for middle & working class people. So many people who are really upper middle class mistake themselves as middle class and then weigh in on this issue. Often they lack understanding of larger systematic issues. For example most of the years I have worked insane hours in lower or middle management in human services, I made income that was very much on the line.

The line is where it pays over the listed poverty line and you are considered financially fit enough to pay for useless insurances that cover nothing, etc. But if you actually get diagnosed with anything you will be fucked as far as accessible care or longterm resources. So many people that are really quick to hate on these women who opt out of work just sometimes do not get that even if the women were irresponsible in having so many children at one point. That often times they are able to ensure their children have more stable care by not going over the line. I have spent years just over the line when I say this. It costs alot for very little in return to be just over the line. From a practical stand point that is the way the system is set up, so if some of these women recognize in order for their children to be cared for is to stay under and that often means they do not work etc. Obviously this is not an approach I personally took but I understand the reason on a practical level. If companies were forced to pay certain professions more that actually was livable wages people would not take that way out as frequently.

My view is we live in a society where its supposedly supposed to be better than many other, well if so we can take care of societies weaker population. I have been astounded at the level of callousness openly in some random hotel workers who complain about homeless people and tell stories. I worked with homeless people (which they do not know). Anyways when I have responded to their callousness by stating it is likely some of the people had mental illnesses etc they do not really seem to have a grasp on the reality of what that means. I am sorta glad I am here to teach some of these morons that kicking people on the street is heartless, we can call social services and provide resources and outlets. So I plan to give people outreach numbers and contacts I know of. Not say oh well.

It becomes very evident to me, people who have been exposed to real poverty and loss and those who have not based on the level of callousness one has toward things like homeless people, and children with benefits. Don't like the mother fine, but suggesting that children do not receive food or healthcare due to their mom being unwise earlier seems harsh. I just never seem to hear these people discuss that maybe companies should pay their SERVICE workers better. I say service like health, and janitor etc entry positions that unskilled workers can enter but take labor and work. I am not referring to fast food and retail entry positions. Anyways people should stop hating on the people, the children etc, but instead hate the system.


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## recycled_lube_oil (Sep 30, 2021)

I am a bit torn on this one.

On the one hand if you are living off welfare, yeah you shouldn't be supporting your growing family off of working tax payers.

On the other hand, it is not exactly humane to cause kids to starve.

Maybe put the kids into care first, then cut of the welfare.

As a taxpayer, I do feel we should have more say on who receives our hard earned money that is turned into tax.


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## SilentScream (Mar 31, 2011)

Have welfare for all. There's no two sides to this. Everyone, even the richest needs that safety net for when things go horribly wrong and trust me, you don't want to be advocating for putting an end to welfare and then having your livelihood taken from you while others ridicule and taunt you for being poor.

Always prepare for the future. Look at the texans that created a system around denying climate change, and when climate change actually hit their state they were completely unprepared and most are still paying off their debts simply because they chose to heat up their homes and not freeze to death.

And guess what. They're now all scrambling for bailouts (a socially acceptable word for welfare) in order to try to crawl out of the shit they created for themselves.


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## Handsome Dyke (Oct 4, 2012)

What does being unmarried have to do with getting welfare checks?


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## DOGSOUP (Jan 29, 2016)

Saiyed Handsome **** said:


> What does being unmarried have to do with getting welfare checks?


One more way to blame the mother for being the parent that stayed, probably.


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## xwsmithx (Jan 17, 2017)

While I support the idea behind the principle, one state tried this and it didn't work. Poor unmarried women don't stop having kids just because they can't afford them. The same is true of poor couples who can't afford to have more kids... cutting off their welfare doesn't make them rein in the number of kids they have. People get uptight by any hint of eugenics, but it seems that involuntary sterilization is the only way to stop poor people from having more children.


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## DOGSOUP (Jan 29, 2016)

xwsmithx said:


> While I support the idea behind the principle, one state tried this and it didn't work. Poor unmarried women don't stop having kids just because they can't afford them. The same is true of poor couples who can't afford to have more kids... cutting off their welfare doesn't make them rein in the number of kids they have. People get uptight by any hint of eugenics, but it seems that involuntary sterilization is the only way to stop poor people from having more children.


If you ever run for office, your slogan could be: vasectomies for all, like it or not!


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## Flabarac Brupip (May 9, 2020)

Oh yes. To hell with the kids. They don't matter. Typical toxic uncaring right wing ideology.


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## Flabarac Brupip (May 9, 2020)

But maybe its worth depriving the kids to teach those unmarried poor "bitches" a lesson.


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## DOGSOUP (Jan 29, 2016)

Ock said:


> But maybe its worth depriving the kids to teach those unmarried poor "bitches" a lesson.


I think it has been proven that women's education correlates with less children / increased health / resources. But ofc these (actual) lessons would lead to the improvement of society somewhat, so that is unacceptable for some.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

Ok and so what are you supposed to do with the starving babies now? Maybe take a photo and then frame it, and hang it in your house to remind you of what a good person you are for wanting to save fetus and then let children who are actually born and need assistance starve?

Sounds like a typical US conservative position.

Maybe oh...I know...go find that lowly mother and her now starving child and then have someone take a photo of yourself handing the child a five dollar bill, and then hang that photo up on your wall to remind you of what a caring person you are. 

(also not directed at OP but US conservatives in general with the whole hypocrisy about trying to force women to carry children, even if they were raped or incestuously raped...while trying desperately to rip away any safety nets for any actual poor children who are already born and the mothers who are trying to care for them.

Lovely.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

I swear...people don't seem to want to listen to me. But the conservative agenda really is to move us back into the dark ages. Destroy education. Force people into poverty. Force a slave workforce...

And yeah, then you'll take those poor kids who are born (once roe v wade is overturned), take their welfare and food stamps away from them so they end up being forced into crime or sexwork...because admit it...you do want those little children to go down in the coal mines again and die at young ages. Because they're not your children right? Just poor children? And it's all about the profits. Poor children are probably even easier to exploit than illegal immigrants (who you pretend to hate but who you import to work in your capitalist factories if you can't outsource the jobs overseas...then blame the progressives for everything and expect them to clean up the mess).

Conservatives...so virtuous. It's disgusting.


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## ENIGMA2019 (Jun 1, 2015)

Drug testing should be implemented on any welfare imo If I have to be drug tested for a job -by all means you should have to be drug tested for welfare. Fail=Not getting it.


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## Flabarac Brupip (May 9, 2020)

I am actually thoroughly disgusted that Roe v. Wade is being overturned, and actually rather saddened as well.


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## Flabarac Brupip (May 9, 2020)

There was a time earlier in adulthood when I didn't know where I stood on the abortion issue.


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## ENIGMA2019 (Jun 1, 2015)




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## Flabarac Brupip (May 9, 2020)

ENIGMA2019 said:


>


@WickerDeer mentioned Roe v. Wade earlier on this thread.


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## DOGSOUP (Jan 29, 2016)

ENIGMA2019 said:


> Drug testing should be implemented on any welfare imo If I have to be drug tested for a job -by all means you should have to be drug tested for welfare. Fail=Not getting it.





ENIGMA2019 said:


>


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## ENIGMA2019 (Jun 1, 2015)

@DOGSOUP
Don't quote me unless you actually have something to say. Only @VinnieBob is allowed to pull a quote like that but, at least, he alters it for entertainment purposes. 

Use those brain cells to figure out what I am talking about.


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## ENIGMA2019 (Jun 1, 2015)

Ock said:


> @WickerDeer mentioned Roe v. Wade earlier on this thread.


Gotcha. I did not scroll up. Apologies.


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## DOGSOUP (Jan 29, 2016)

ENIGMA2019 said:


> @DOGSOUP
> Don't quote me unless you actually have something to say. Only @VinnieBob is allowed to pull a quote like that but, at least, he alters it for entertainment purposes.
> 
> Use those brain cells to figure out what I am talking about.


I was just horrified you would say that and used the same reaction image to convey my shock. Thanks for letting me know quoting you was prohibited and sorry for not being entertaining enough.


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## VinnieBob (Mar 24, 2014)

ENIGMA2019 said:


> @DOGSOUP
> Don't quote me unless you actually have something to say. Only @VinnieBob is allowed to pull a quote like that but, at least, he alters it for entertainment purposes.
> 
> Use those brain cells to figure out what I am talking about.


🤔😳🤨😁


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## MsMojiMoe (Apr 7, 2021)

the problem is the whole system/class status

no, don’t stop the welfare for children (it’s for kids not the mother) , and taking kids away from their mother is punishing the kids, very mental…..kids should only be remove if they are in danger from the parent. Trust I was taken from my parents for awhile when I was young….why was I punish, it was hell…. fix th3 real problem. Bc the kids might grow up too damage to make good decisions


however, we live in a system that has horrible public schools, any real skills cost money (college) which aro7nd 75% can not afford, and apparently even the ones that do go can’t afford anymore either, school debt problem…( must have a co signer/ someone with credit, meaning middle or upper class) …but schools are closed off to getting real jobs to Pay for a living….mini jobs ( Walmart is the biggest employer in most states) anything under $25 is NOT A LIVABLE WAGE….average mini wage in under $8 And there is still taxes to take out.
ppl are force in relationships to make ends meet.

also, most probably don’t think this matter, but food is shit too, I mean a lot of process food for the poor, which has a major effect on your mental health, again not making proper choices or just gave up and don’t care. Can’t feed a nation crap and aspect everyone to think and do health things/behaviors, to care…when ppl give up, they stop caring…you live in a system that don’t care about you, don’t aspect them to care about the system or society……this is what the system teaching…hatred, blame, don’t care, use ppl

so we live in a system where poor ppl can’t get ahead, in most cases, without breaking the law or doing stuff they wont want to,giving up their morals to survive…. or getting into relationship so you can survive in this rich man world….which problably turn somewhat abusive , the amount of stress each person brings ….that causes them to have really low self essteem, which then you can’t make proper decisions.

If ppl really not want this, then we have to open up the schools ( and health system, but I’m not going to get in this part of it)….so everyone has a chance. Equal opportunity or we don’t really believe in that.
Every job should be a livable wage (basic living, food, shelter, etc)….and there will still be plenty of money for the ones who want to overachieve …still be plenty for ppl to be richer than others, giving everyone a livable wage, would make a stronger nation.

most Don’t choose this life

i was left completely on my own when I was 18, no help, no college etc…I try to work my way up, but it didn’t work, after three years of working 3 jobs, 120 hours a week, still only eating one sandwich a day, there were times( 2 jobs), where I could only eat once every other day, in supposedly one of the greatest nations…hmm.
*I did everything I was suppose to.* I still fell…I couldn’t do it, ( this is where everyone was telling me just get marry….relationships are almost force on you when you’re poor …esp when you HAVE to MAKE IT ON YOUR OWN. Always living with 8 other ppl in a three bedroom apartment, or your just renting a room, but still can’t afford to eat. And you are not getting ahead but only behind.

i remember my first apartment with my best friend who had a baby, the only reason why we got in ( and this was a low family income apartment), bc we were both working full time we would not qualify …so she went to part time, and if it was the two of us we still wouldn’t qualify but they can count the baby which made our income less so we could qualified…..we both only made 5.25 at the time, but we make too much …even tho you can’t survive on that

so in short, the system makes it, so the only way you can get help is to have a baby…men have better opportunities…80% of nonlivable wages goes to women…..hmmm, but men won’t qualify usually either, unless their fully taking care of a child on his own ( there some more I could say here( about how some father really get screw here, but that going off topic a little)

so we have a society where they basicly enforce relationships and having kids while unmarried …bc if you are marry, there is a good chance you won’t qualify for help/welfare…I know married friends as they were just started a family and new business and needed the help until they business got better, just a little help to get started….they were deny. So, we need to stop shaming ppl for *a system that creates this problem.*

if you don’t want it, don’t go after ppl or kids that grew up learning the system In this way.

i end up becoming a dancer to paid the bills, I hated it. I knew a girl keeping her sister and brothers together bc her parents were thrown in jail and didn’t want her sibling going to foster care….the only job she could do was dancing that paid the bills. Very noble person.
i remember thinking about suicide….bc I didn’t think I could stand doing that job, I threw up everytime before I took the stage and after for months….I hate th3 world For making me do this. Dancing or suicide…what option did I really have in the end. I’m not builts for a life of crime, or would I personal ever bring a child into the world without a strong fountain….it just not in me. But I also didn’t just grow up in this system, I grew up living everywhere, countries and all, so I was exposed to a lot things where other ppl are not, and get stuck in a certain way of thinking. So, even if I wouldnt do it, I get how others do….and they are to blame but it’s mostly environmental factors…mothers on welfare (we need to change the environment not to punish ppl for stuff the system causes)

i Really feel society pushes kids on women then gives us jobs that don’t pay and shame them for having kids….it’s backwards.

i remember a couple of times trying to get food stamps, but I was deny, I worked too much, but I remember my friend got them just fine bc she had a kid and she made more money than I did, I never qualify for low income housing bc again I make too much, even tho I couldnt afford that place without another person helping me…but somehow I make too much money this was about 20 years ago…( the Place was $750 I took home about $800 a month…left me with $50 for all others expenses, but hey go have a kid and we help you otherwise go live in the streets, but then society will complain about that tooo)

it is frustrating when ppl who are..some what irresponsible ( I blame them on the irresponsible part but I know the system is mostly to blame) get all the help, you who are busting your ass gets nothings, not even a little just to get started….I remember i was taken a class at the local community college, ( in my 30s) , and there was this girl there, who boldly admitted this…( she was getting her education paid for ( I don’t know how much) by th3 welfare system to help mothers gets jobs, I guess, but she said that she going back to welfare after she graduated bc she is only here bc they threaten to take her welfare away, so she is taken the classes but not going to used them bc in her words, she makes more on welfare than she would at the jobs using this skills ( I think it was nursing, yeah, a lot nurses make minimum wage)….I get it, and it’s NOT like the welfare is giving out a lot of money… is that JOBS don’t pay. Welfare is security where jobs are wishy washy. it makes me mad but I get her reasonings. I wish ppl were responsible, but maybe we are the suckers in thinking good things will just happen if you are good and responsible…a bit of a joke,….for me it’s about my own character, how I see my self, the world wont take that away from me. So, I would never be irresponsible esp with a childs life…so I Never ended up on welfare…but I can see how the SYSTEM plays ppl against each other.

this is one of those….someone Like me could get very mad and blame the girl who seem like she doesn’t care about her school and getting it free while I’m out here busting my ass just to take one class…and then hear her not even appreciating on what I would give to have free schooling….but I know the real cause and it isn’t her.
system playing class status games…blamee THIS GROUP of ppl) for your hardships….I couldn’t afford school bc the system says so, not bc she getting A free ride, sort of speak. Always keep in sight of the real problem. Be smarter than the system, don’t give in to the hate/blame….see the system for what it really is


i could go on


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## ENIGMA2019 (Jun 1, 2015)

DOGSOUP said:


> I was just horrified you would say that and used the same reaction image to convey my shock. Thanks for letting me know quoting you was prohibited and sorry for not being entertaining enough.


Horrified? Wow... extreme huh? I am not sure you are aware of what true horror is. I responded based off the title of the thread and seems like a fair solution to me. The other to Ock was a misunderstanding and I apologized. I was not aware others were talking about Roe vs Wade. Which seems to be the hot topic of the US media. I have no interest in getting involved in the convo. 

Quoting me is fine if- you have something to actually say. Prob best we not quote each other though.


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## xwsmithx (Jan 17, 2017)

DOGSOUP said:


> If you ever run for office, your slogan could be: vasectomies for all, like it or not!


Not all, just stupid people. Stupid people shouldn't breed, and yet they are the ones who breed the most.


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## xwsmithx (Jan 17, 2017)

WickerDeer said:


> Ok and so what are you supposed to do with the starving babies now? Maybe take a photo and then frame it, and hang it in your house to remind you of what a good person you are for wanting to save fetus and then let children who are actually born and need assistance starve?
> 
> Sounds like a typical US conservative position.
> 
> ...





WickerDeer said:


> I swear...people don't seem to want to listen to me. But the conservative agenda really is to move us back into the dark ages. Destroy education. Force people into poverty. Force a slave workforce...
> 
> And yeah, then you'll take those poor kids who are born (once roe v wade is overturned), take their welfare and food stamps away from them so they end up being forced into crime or sexwork...because admit it...you do want those little children to go down in the coal mines again and die at young ages. Because they're not your children right? Just poor children? And it's all about the profits. Poor children are probably even easier to exploit than illegal immigrants (who you pretend to hate but who you import to work in your capitalist factories if you can't outsource the jobs overseas...then blame the progressives for everything and expect them to clean up the mess).
> 
> Conservatives...so virtuous. It's disgusting.


As usual, a leftist responds to what s/he thinks the conservative position is rather than what it actually is. Jonathan Haidt discovered that while conservatives understand leftist positions very well, leftists don't understand conservative positions at all, and the further left they are, the less they understand conservative positions. No one on the right is trying to make kids starve, work in factories, or move us back towards the dark ages. What conservatives want to do is to make people stand on their own two feet and not rely on the government to support them. For women and children, that's what MEN are for. The out-of-wedlock birth crisis in the inner cities didn't start until the government started handing out free money for women with kids. Then the marriage rate crashed and the kids being born out of wedlock rate skyrocketed, and I don't think I need to rehash all the negative effects of out-of-wedlock children. Essentially what the right wants to do is move us back towards the dark ages of women actually marrying the father of their children. Horrifying, I know. But no one on the right wants to starve kids, that's a straw man argument the left promotes to try to keep as many poor people on the government welfare rolls as possible.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

X10E8 said:


> ��
> 
> 
> 
> ...



There should be a penalty, but the kids shouldn't have to pay for the stupidity of their mother.


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## Flabarac Brupip (May 9, 2020)

xwsmithx said:


> What conservatives want to do is to make people stand on their own two feet and not rely on the government to support them.


But what's all the byproduct of trying to force everyone to "stand on their own two feet"? What happens to the people that fail, or have really tried, but they fall through the cracks? Oh well? Its not everyone else's problem? As someone I think kinda explained on this thread, the system is far from conducive for everyone to "stand on their own two feet" without help. 

I for one know that I wouldn't survive, or I'd be incarcerated, institutionalized, or homeless, probably bat shit crazy (which is a terrifying living hell fyi). But oh well?


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## xwsmithx (Jan 17, 2017)

MsMojiMoe said:


> the problem is the whole system/class status
> 
> no, don’t stop the welfare for children (it’s for kids not the mother) , and taking kids away from their mother is punishing the kids, very mental…..kids should only be remove if they are in danger from the parent. Trust I was taken from my parents for awhile when I was young….why was I punish, it was hell…. fix th3 real problem. Bc the kids might grow up too damage to make good decisions
> 
> ...


Interesting life story. I'll "fill you in", as it were, on why things are the way they are, and then I want to ask some questions specifically about your experience.

1) Minimum wage is not a living wage because very few people are trying to live off of it. Most people working minimum wage are teenagers, women working to make a few extra bucks, and seniors looking for something to do after retirement. Only about 10% of the people making minimum wage are actually trying to make a living off of it.

2) Most of the people who make minimum wage quickly advance up the pay scale if they have any ability and conscientiousness at all, i.e., if you can do the job and show up to work on time, the company will give you a raise pretty quickly just to keep you around.

3) Government rules make it difficult to move part-timers to full-time status. The number of additional burdens placed on a business for each additional full-time worker is not small, so most companies prefer to use part-timers if they can get away with it.

4) Unrestricted immigration has been keeping low wages flat since 1970. The Immigration Reform Act of 1965 started letting in close to a million or more low wage workers from south of the border for 50 years now, keeping wages of the poor low, because they can always be replaced by someone who just arrived. When Trump closed the border, wages started going up immediately, as did employment among the poorest people. Now Biden has opened it again and wages have flattened and jobs have disappeared.

5) It's mostly government regulations that keep housing prices high and housing unavailable. Local zoning, state laws, and federal regulations all serve to restrict how much housing can be built and where, keeping rents unnaturally high. And while I typically avoid blaming capitalists for problems, housing seems to be infested with speculators who keep a lot of housing off the market, even if no one is living in it, in the hopes of driving the prices up even further. Even business locations suffer from this, as a rundown strip mall in the town where I used to live was bought by a speculator, not to fix it up, but to flip it in five years without actually doing anything with it. The town, naturally, was horrified.

So now I want to know some more about your situation... A) Why didn't you advance in one of the jobs you were working so that you started to make decent pay? Why were you still working low wage jobs in your 30s? B) You said you felt you were being pushed to get into a relationship, so why didn't you? Why not marry a guy with a decent job and a decent chance of a good career? C) Good for you that you didn't have a child out of wedlock, but if the system as it is pushes women to have a child out of wedlock as a way to get more money out of the state, shouldn't we then consider the possibility that getting rid of that program would stop pushing women to have children out of wedlock? D) Isn't it true that the welfare for mothers with dependent children is _less_ than the cost of the child? Children cost on average $13K a year in additional expenses while AFDC is far less than that. E) Other than raising the minimum wage, how would you change the system so that you personally could become a self-supporting member of society?


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## xwsmithx (Jan 17, 2017)

Ock said:


> But what's all the byproduct of trying to force everyone to "stand on their own two feet"? What happens to the people that fail, or have really tried, but they fall through the cracks? Oh well? Its not everyone else's problem? As someone I think kinda explained on this thread, the system is far from conducive for everyone to "stand on their own two feet" without help.
> 
> I for one know that I wouldn't survive, or I'd be incarcerated, institutionalized, or homeless, probably bat shit crazy (which is a terrifying living hell fyi). But oh well?


Bring back poor houses. I could use one myself, actually.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

xwsmithx said:


> As usual, a leftist responds to what s/he thinks the conservative position is rather than what it actually is. Jonathan Haidt discovered that while conservatives understand leftist positions very well, leftists don't understand conservative positions at all, and the further left they are, the less they understand conservative positions. No one on the right is trying to make kids starve, work in factories, or move us back towards the dark ages. What conservatives want to do is to make people stand on their own two feet and not rely on the government to support them. For women and children, that's what MEN are for. The out-of-wedlock birth crisis in the inner cities didn't start until the government started handing out free money for women with kids. Then the marriage rate crashed and the kids being born out of wedlock rate skyrocketed, and I don't think I need to rehash all the negative effects of out-of-wedlock children. Essentially what the right wants to do is move us back towards the dark ages of women actually marrying the father of their children. Horrifying, I know. But no one on the right wants to starve kids, that's a straw man argument the left promotes to try to keep as many poor people on the government welfare rolls as possible.


Um...so you think you're going to somehow get women to marry unfit fathers just because you threaten to starve their children?

Well, yeah--I guess people on the right aren't stupid. 
Maybe a bit callous, cruel, and selfish.
Did the Right learn that from human trafficking rings or something? Can the Conservatives please stop trying to use terrorist tactics to get the things they want? Y'er party is really not doing great with that lately. 

People who actually know how hard it is to stand on their own two feet--like poor mothers who often have to balance work and family, and be solely responsible for dependents while also having these tremendous obstacles (such as people who think women shouldn't be paid as much as men, and businesses who don't care about families, and people who want to take away any bits of help these families are hanging on by) often value standing on their feet, but also understand that life's not that easy for everyone, and that you really do not know what it's like to try to carry the burden of another. And so just pretending ripping away their safety nets that prevent their children from starving in hopes of forcing women to marry unfit fathers, isn't really the solution.


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## xwsmithx (Jan 17, 2017)

WickerDeer said:


> Um...so you think you're going to somehow get women to marry unfit fathers just because you threaten to starve their children?
> 
> Well, yeah--I guess people on the right aren't stupid.
> Maybe a bit callous, cruel, and selfish.
> ...


But why are they poor mothers? Isn't it because they chose to have children out of wedlock? 70% of all black kids are now born out of wedlock. White kids aren't nearly as bad but getting worse. And the reason they chose to have children out of wedlock is because it was financially feasible because of government handouts. Cut off the handouts and the number of kids born out of wedlock will fall. You want to argue that we shouldn't stop funding unmarried mothers because the kids will starve, how about we stop funding unmarried mothers so that we stop having unmarried mothers?









Single Mother Statistics (UPDATED 2022)


As of 2021, 11 million families in the U.S. were headed by a single parent, the majority of which were single mothers. Nearly a third lived in poverty.




singlemotherguide.com


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## ai.tran.75 (Feb 26, 2014)

xwsmithx said:


> As usual, a leftist responds to what s/he thinks the conservative position is rather than what it actually is. Jonathan Haidt discovered that while conservatives understand leftist positions very well, leftists don't understand conservative positions at all, and the further left they are, the less they understand conservative positions. No one on the right is trying to make kids starve, work in factories, or move us back towards the dark ages. What conservatives want to do is to make people stand on their own two feet and not rely on the government to support them. For women and children, that's what MEN are for. The out-of-wedlock birth crisis in the inner cities didn't start until the government started handing out free money for women with kids. Then the marriage rate crashed and the kids being born out of wedlock rate skyrocketed, and I don't think I need to rehash all the negative effects of out-of-wedlock children. Essentially what the right wants to do is move us back towards the dark ages of women actually marrying the father of their children. Horrifying, I know. But no one on the right wants to starve kids, that's a straw man argument the left promotes to try to keep as many poor people on the government welfare rolls as possible.



Is it left versus right ? In many countries parents are able to take more than 8 weeks off to tend for their child and medical care is free for all.
Implementing rules that a mother without a husband shouldn’t have welfare is beyond ridiculous- single women and those babies needs their parents .
In my area ( I’m from Palo Alto ,Ca) 
there’s something call being a mandated reporter , we report the incidents of child neglect or abuse and the parents will get educated on how they should raise their child before the child get returned to them- obviously with severe neglect /abuse then the child will be sent to protective child services . 
I run a child family practice /play- base school for early childhood education (2-9 years old ) and mentor parents on how to parent- So this isn’t so much of a leftist view but more from a behavioralist pov - young children grows best and feel most secure next to the person whom love them most , most parents don’t parent well due to not understanding the concept more so than purposely wanting to harm /damage their child . 
Single mother needs the support most, limiting the funds will not stop a person from having more children- more abortion perhaps if that’s what you’re trying to strive towards 


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## ai.tran.75 (Feb 26, 2014)

xwsmithx said:


> You want to argue that we shouldn't stop funding unmarried mothers because the kids will starve, how about we stop funding unmarried mothers so that we stop having unmarried mothers?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No cutting off funding for unmarried mother wouldn’t stop them from having more kids - if anything we will have more abortions /orphanages and illegal crimes . 


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## MsMojiMoe (Apr 7, 2021)

xwsmithx said:


> Interesting life story. I'll "fill you in", as it were, on why things are the way they are, and then I want to ask some questions specifically about your experience.
> 
> 1) Minimum wage is not a living wage because very few people are trying to live off of it. Most people working minimum wage are teenagers, women working to make a few extra bucks, and seniors looking for something to do after retirement. Only about 10% of the people making minimum wage are actually trying to make a living off of it.


you don’t need to fill me in…I’ve lived it

thats is wrong about minimum wage…but its how a lot of ppl _want_ to think, so you won’t blame the system but the workers, gives them ppl to blame and I will explain

it was design after the depression to Protect workers. I highlighted the areas










standard of living, basic living

this is a link to an article
CORRECTION: This is What Minimum Wage Would Be If It Kept Pace with Productivity - Center for Economic and Policy Research

in case others don’t want to read, here are some th8ngs from this article from the CEPR ( center for economic and policies research called Correction: This is what minimum wage would be if we kept in pace with productivity

and echos what I been saying for 20 years…









——









————-
walmart wouldn’t be the biggest employer over half the states if ppl weren’t trying to make a living off it.

and if I have no college or skill to get the livable jobs ( a lot of entry lvl college doesn’t make livable wages either) What jobs are out there that I can make a livable wage off…what cashier is now working in the corporate side…most managers don’t make a livable wage…what job does a cashier move up to…what job can I make on my own, not years from when I started bc I need to eat today…not twenty years from now, well I will need to eat then too,  ( yes I trying to keep this light)

what job can someone go to and have the employers guarantee that if I do everything right, do a good job that within 3 -5years ( a reasonable amount of t8me) I WILL be making a livable wage….???

i only worked these types of jobs my first three years of my life…well kinda I will 3xplain later…not in my 30s.

but yes, most ppl I worked with were in relationships, but this was their income along with their partners, many had babies and were on welfare, I will get into in another point you had….but that’s the FORCE Im talking about…the environment bc we can’t live off these jobs, ppl have look in others ways, many sold drugs on the side, i know middle class you sell drugs just to make the financial burden a little tolerable. Many worked multiple jobs like me…some ended up in jail bc of trying to make ends meet with these low wages. Women get pregnant to try to keep men, sometimes, so they will have someone helping, many get in relationships and it trapped in them (both men and women) ….many who weren’t in relationship were living with their parents or family so they didn’t have things like rent etc…

so what jobs are ppl like me ( at that time) are supposed to get where they have enough to lived off…I had 3 job at the same time, and still got buried alive. 120 hours a week. Stepping stones to what job…what job after I’ve been a cashier for three years ( bc I can’t wait forever for a livable wage, it’s impossible) that I’m going to step up to that’s a livable wage…poor ppl would love to know….real answers

————————-




xwsmithx said:


> 2) Most of the people who make minimum wage quickly advance up the pay scale if they have any ability and conscientiousness at all, i.e., if you can do the job and show up to work on time, the company will give you a raise pretty quickly just to keep you around.
> 
> 3) Government rules make it difficult to move part-timers to full-time status. The number of additional burdens placed on a business for each additional full-time worker is not small, so most companies prefer to use part-timers if they can get away with it.
> .


really, who are these ppl…not at the places I’ve worked at…I got a raise every 6 months, places like Fred Meyers ( Kroger) , supermarket, I got .05 every 6 months….everyone got that…it was the standard for anyone who wasn’t management …and if you change department like I went from cashier to garden center, I lost all my raises bc it was a different department and I had to start at the base pay again…how many nickel raises and only coming twice a year, raises or years would it take for me to get a livable wage …the answer is never. Our only true raise came when the federal gov. forces the employers to, bc business is all about the bottom line, money over ppl, ppl are replaceable. I will get more into this when I answer some of your answers about me.

this is a fantasy thinking ppl just move up, like the cashiers I gave in the last example, move up to what and how long, bc I need to eat, need to take showers, need to sleep, …ever heard the saying, “ you can’t believe everything you hear or read, but I bet you can repeat it”…. I hear this all the time from ppl all the time…but when I stop to ask ppl give me examples, real examples, bc I’ve worked in these places and was coworkers with these ppl..and im not talking some isolated incident, there should a ton of examples if it’s this easy to move up in these jobs …I think ppl just keep repeating this to each other until they believe it’s true….now yes some jobs you can, giving the benefit of the bout, can’t really think of one, if you have the right skills and a place/company that’s design to…( but most ppl have partner up and is sharing expenses with a bf/gf..or spouse, or parents etc…there not completely on their own)
many places like the biggest employer in American don’t give high raises, small business says they can’t afford to paid much… , Walmart/ Kroger many places has set raises for everyone, and you will never get ahead on your own this way.

answering the 3 question
3. this is very true, I got punish from these jobs bc I wasnt on some sort of government aid, many places gives employers credits to hire disable or ppl on assistance like welfare …so these ppl get priority bc most can’t work full time, mess up their assistance and the place gets money from the government to hire these ppl, while ppl like me, the poor who is trying to be a responsible gets screw once again, and I have no assistance so I need the hours….this is life or death for the poor….we can’t have responsible poor ppl….that will ruin everything….and others will find a way to still blame ppl like me…I’m just not be doing something right bc if i was than I should be able to make a job give a livable wage, it’s my fault they don’t pay…..we need you to be irresponsible so we can blame you For all the economic problems….so, yeah, I usually got like 35 hours just below full time which is 40…so they, the company, doesn’t have to pay benefits ( not that I could afford the benefits they offer ( I think it $159 a month for only 50% of dental/medical cover, I had to come up with the other 50% out of pocket… I couldn’t afford that anyways) but you know, the poor doesn’t need to go to the doctor ever, we are never stress, or Hungary, or sick,….. who cares about the poor, right?

i also got penalized for having more than one job, too. How dare I. they wanted me completely open, so they can use me at any hour…they don’t like making regular schedules…you should work when they need you and if you have another job, well you’re not the right fit for our company....or you will only get 15 hours a week…

——————————-
im going to take your posts steps at a time

but I feel to give you a little background, some on here probably get sick of me saying this,….my parents divorced and I went with my mom and stepdad, we were in a cult and I got taken out by age 5...then I was place with my dad who was in the military, so I was a military brat, when I was 18, we just moved again, he fell in love again, but left me behind, thinking like you do…if I just work hard I will be fine….so I was completely on my own in a new place, California. With just the shirt off my back

i work whatever jobs I could, mostly retail ( which is the most degraded job), but I worked answering phones, caring in a home for dementia patients ( where they go to die, yes this also was only mini job, had 60 patients), i worked a skating ring, solar panel , many jobs etc….i try for many others places like the post office, ups, etc, but never got them.

after 3 years of complete abuse for customers and employers ( not all ) and realizing that you can’t make a living out of it ( this was early 2000s) bc no one told me that, it wasn’t until 2017 that ppl finally really started to make noise about livable jobs vs non livable ( no one ever use to use the word “livable” wage, this is very recent)
so i became a dancer and I was finally able to eat, pay my bills, and do normal things like go on a date or hang with friends. Live, I got to finally live a little…..I hated the job, but it was better than suicide. Bc if I can’t make a living I can’t live.
when I was almost 26, I joined the Coast Guard, I love parts of it but it wasn’t for me, I still dance on the weekends when I wasn’t shipped out ….but I got out after I did my 6 years as MST ( marine science technician) this is when I was taken classes here and there.
when I was 31, I went back to dancing full time until Covid hit, and I had to quit. But I was ready to quit. I’m 40 now, and I almost got 4 years into marine science and marine biology…I work in this area, only $15 an hour, pretty much minimum wage in my state….still not a livable wage, but I have money saved and stock, mutual funds, I not hurt8ng financial at all…I’m good, so I don’t mind it’s $15 an hour,I love the job… I knew I wouldn’t be able to dance forever and knew I wasn’t marrying anyone too, don’t believe in marriage, explain later…., so I saved…I never got into alcohol or hard drugs, which is the downfall of most ppl in the field I was in….

hope that clears some things up

i will finish answering your other questions after I take a break


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## MsMojiMoe (Apr 7, 2021)

xwsmithx said:


> But why are they poor mothers? Isn't it because they chose to have children out of wedlock? 70% of all black kids are now born out of wedlock. White kids aren't nearly as bad but getting worse. And the reason they chose to have children out of wedlock is because it was financially feasible because of government handouts.


before I get to the rest of the questions you gave me….I will show you a different perspective here. Bc it’s half correct, or something.
”the best lies/ conspiracies are hidden between two truths”, in this case, it’s kinda right but the real reason why got lost and twisted to fit a special interest narrative.

they are not poor bc they are having kids out of wed-lock, they’re poor bc there is no opportunities in their neighborhoods and how the system keeps the poor down ….this having babies or being on welfare is a byproduct of the real problem.

to show you my perspective…Let’s talk about Detroit, Michigan..the rise and fall
( how the system causes the problems, how “environment” plays/control on behaviors )

first, what is “ the projects”….this is a place in the city that is segregated from the main areas/ the outskirts, where we put as many ppl as possible in one very dense area…and here is the kicker…where there is almost no jobs/no opportunities. Then we say, be a production citizen. 👍

ive lived in Baltimore like in the 89-90….I lived in the black side of town, we didn’t know (I’m white) , my dad didn’t like to live on base ( didn’t wan5 to live at work) , i didn’t even have books in our school. I didn’t think much of it at the time bc I was a kid…I found out later, it was mostly bc Baltimore has a lot of great science, medical jobs like John hopkins etc…so they couldn’t keep math and science teachers…after our lease was up, we moved to the other side of Baltimore, a mixed neighborhood and we had books in that school. How do you expect ppl who live in these inner cities without really no education get good jobs or make responsible decisions…also these places don’t usually have birth control avialible for ppl….what jobs are their for them, who is fixing their schools

being a minority means you don’t have the power in the courts, it’s hard to get changes in their neighborhoods bc they only have minority vote in their counties, cities and if the major doesn’t care about their neighborhoods they don’t get the change they need for their neighborhoods…

I hate when ppl call KIDs dropouts its awful bc it’s putting the blame on KIDS , its the system/society that fail that kid not the other way around…we shouldn blame kids for our policies And fail structures. Every kid that drop outs that is society failing

and guess what happens to pregnant teens…in many states, esp the religious ones, they will not let the girl go to school when she starts to show, bc they are worried she is a bad role model for her peers, who needs education more than a teen mother about to have a kid…
let’s not education them bc they are an embarrassment…wow I bet that’s make their self esteem great. So, they get trapped in a cycle…

anyways, to Detroit we go……

what happen to Detroit….on the very very very very top surface and trying to fit a narrative….some will say, it fell when the blacks came….and it does seem that way, …so some ppl now have just twisted what this means….some got this twisted bc yes it has some truth behind it, if you look at when detriot was doing well, it was mostly white but now that it has fallen it’s mostly black….they twisted this and believe that this is the *reason* why the city fell….No, this it what it looks like on the very top surface…

So let’s dig…
there a couple of big things that happen
the overlooked: white flight when the blacks came from the southern states looking for WORK, bc of equal employment just happened …but whites didn’t want them, and moved to the suburbs where blacks were not allowed, then the auto industry followed taking the jobs away going to more suburbs area, leaving the poor behind with no jobs again…

the projects again, is a place where they put as many ppl possible with no oppuntiy around and the schools are not teaching them anything….they/the school don’t care bc society has already given up on them, instead of fixing the real problem we blame them….get a job we say, then they go where the jobs are, then we said, but not here, then the whites are too uncomfortable around blacks so they blame them for their fears…so then we leave and take the jobs with us, but then shame them for being poor And the condition they live in, or I should say, we put them in.

( omg, I just lost the rest of my post and have to start over…grrr)

well I’m just going to put some videos up



i got some videos if ppl are interested about the fall of Detroit

this is great video about it..22 mins long








I cue this up but the first part explain the great migration from the southern states, blacks looking for jobs…I started it, talking about the baby boom, so many babies, and white flight to suburban ( very important to Detroit fall)







this whole video is good, but long 40 mins…if anyone is bored and wonder what really happen to Detroit ….I cued this up…talking about cronyism ( appointment of friends and associates to positions of authority, without proper regard to their qualifications)….and the bailout for the auto industries, special treatment to special interest groups and political parties…our forefather were worried about this (cronyism)…that it would cause the erosion of our nation….they got bailout but Detroit still fell…

..the entire loss to the American taxpayer came as a result of preferential treatment given to the United Auto Workers UAW….the gov intervening transferring money to a very politically powerful group, running over the rights of others to enrich political supporters…







about the project and why they were a bad idea






why do ugly buildings is bad, it’s sound funny but it’s true..
this video is great, funny, entertaining …and not directly about what we are talking about but about buildings ( I like to urban explore bc these old building before ww2 gives us connections to our past of human development)….i cued up the part about tower blocks, but the whole video is great, and it’s effects…like inner cities ppl are 30% higher for mental disorders, like schizophrenia and depression…





—————-

so going back to why are these mother poor… bc the system keeps them poor….take ppl’s morale and dignity , take away hope…ppl aren’t going to make proper decisions, and they survive however they can…if you cut out the welfare…there is still no opportunities, is still a problem, crime is still a problem, still corruption, all the problems are still there…nothing really changes…I mean if, you take welfare away are jobs going to suddenly pop up…will employers paid their employees livable wages…will th3 school suddenly get books for their students..etc…

ok I will answer the other questions later


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## xwsmithx (Jan 17, 2017)

Thanks for responding in depth. I'll do a quick rundown of this section, then may add more later.



MsMojiMoe said:


> you don’t need to fill me in…I’ve lived it
> 
> thats is wrong about minimum wage…but its how a lot of ppl _want_ to think, so you won’t blame the system but the workers, gives them ppl to blame and I will explain
> 
> ...


You'll forgive me if I don't take their word for it. The original minimum wage was just 25¢ an hour, the equivalent of about $4 an hour in today's money. Milk cost about 50¢ a gallon, meaning you'd have to work two hours just to buy a gallon of milk. You have to work far less than an hour to buy a gallon of milk today, even on minimum wage. No one could live on a minimum wage, even in 1938.



MsMojiMoe said:


> in case others don’t want to read, here are some th8ngs from this article from the CEPR ( center for economic and policies research called Correction: This is what minimum wage would be if we kept in pace with productivity
> 
> and echos what I been saying for 20 years…
> 
> ...


Look carefully at that chart. You'll see that it mirrors what I have said in several other posts on various topics. Wages started to flatline in 1970, just five years after the floodgates were opened to Mexican (and other Latin American) immigration. Since 1970, employers haven't had to pay Americans American wages because they can hire someone cheaper who just came over the border. If you want wages to go up, close the damn border.



MsMojiMoe said:


> and if I have no college or skill to get the livable jobs ( a lot of entry lvl college doesn’t make livable wages either) What jobs are out there that I can make a livable wage off…what cashier is now working in the corporate side…most managers don’t make a livable wage…what job does a cashier move up to…what job can I make on my own, not years from when I started bc I need to eat today…not twenty years from now, well I will need to eat then too,  ( yes I trying to keep this light)
> 
> what job can someone go to and have the employers guarantee that if I do everything right, do a good job that within 3 -5years ( a reasonable amount of t8me) I WILL be making a livable wage….???


None, because the companies themselves don't know how they will be doing in 3-5 years. It sucks, but nothing in life is guaranteed.



MsMojiMoe said:


> i only worked these types of jobs my first three years of my life…well kinda I will 3xplain later…not in my 30s.
> 
> but yes, most ppl I worked with were in relationships, but this was their income along with their partners, many had babies and were on welfare, I will get into in another point you had….but that’s the FORCE Im talking about…the environment bc we can’t live off these jobs, ppl have look in others ways, many sold drugs on the side, i know middle class you sell drugs just to make the financial burden a little tolerable. Many worked multiple jobs like me…some ended up in jail bc of trying to make ends meet with these low wages. Women get pregnant to try to keep men, sometimes, so they will have someone helping, many get in relationships and it trapped in them (both men and women) ….many who weren’t in relationship were living with their parents or family so they didn’t have things like rent etc…
> 
> so what jobs are ppl like me ( at that time) are supposed to get where they have enough to lived off…I had 3 job at the same time, and still got buried alive. 120 hours a week. Stepping stones to what job…what job after I’ve been a cashier for three years ( bc I can’t wait forever for a livable wage, it’s impossible) that I’m going to step up to that’s a livable wage…poor ppl would love to know….real answers


Most people are poor because they have no marketable skills, intelligence, or conscientiousness. They don't show up to work on time, put in a day's labor, or stay to the end of the working day. It takes a long time to train them to do the simplest jobs, and they frequently require constant supervision to keep them on task. Drug and alcohol abuse are concomitant problems. Mental health issues also contribute. I saw a study once that said 1/3rd of the homeless are mentally ill and another 1/3rd have substance abuse problems. Add in the number of people who have served time in jail and you get a very large number of people who are bad job risks.

————————-






MsMojiMoe said:


> really, who are these ppl…not at the places I’ve worked at…I got a raise every 6 months, places like Fred Meyers ( Kroger) , supermarket, I got .05 every 6 months….everyone got that…it was the standard for anyone who wasn’t management …and if you change department like I went from cashier to garden center, I lost all my raises bc it was a different department and I had to start at the base pay again…how many nickel raises and only coming twice a year, raises or years would it take for me to get a livable wage …the answer is never. Our only true raise came when the federal gov. forces the employers to, bc business is all about the bottom line, money over ppl, ppl are replaceable. I will get more into this when I answer some of your answers about me.
> 
> this is a fantasy thinking ppl just move up, like the cashiers I gave in the last example, move up to what and how long, bc I need to eat, need to take showers, need to sleep, …ever heard the saying, “ you can’t believe everything you hear or read, but I bet you can repeat it”…. I hear this all the time from ppl all the time…but when I stop to ask ppl give me examples, real examples, bc I’ve worked in these places and was coworkers with these ppl..and im not talking some isolated incident, there should a ton of examples if it’s this easy to move up in these jobs …I think ppl just keep repeating this to each other until they believe it’s true….now yes some jobs you can, giving the benefit of the bout, can’t really think of one, if you have the right skills and a place/company that’s design to…( but most ppl have partner up and is sharing expenses with a bf/gf..or spouse, or parents etc…there not completely on their own)
> many places like the biggest employer in American don’t give high raises, small business says they can’t afford to paid much… , Walmart/ Kroger many places has set raises for everyone, and you will never get ahead on your own this way.


I'm sorry you didn't have better luck in employers. I knew a lady (I was her lawyer briefly) who was working at Home Depot who frequently turned down offers from the company to become an assistant manager because she didn't want to work the long hours. My two sisters-in-law, when they are working, are usually offered management jobs within six months of when they start, but they clash with management and quit. I don't know your situation, so I don't know why you weren't offered a management position at Kroger.



MsMojiMoe said:


> answering the 3 question
> 3. this is very true, I got punish from these jobs bc I wasnt on some sort of government aid, many places gives employers credits to hire disable or ppl on assistance like welfare …so these ppl get priority bc most can’t work full time, mess up their assistance and the place gets money from the government to hire these ppl, while ppl like me, the poor who is trying to be a responsible gets screw once again, and I have no assistance so I need the hours….this is life or death for the poor….we can’t have responsible poor ppl….that will ruin everything….and others will find a way to still blame ppl like me…I’m just not be doing something right bc if i was than I should be able to make a job give a livable wage, it’s my fault they don’t pay…..we need you to be irresponsible so we can blame you For all the economic problems….so, yeah, I usually got like 35 hours just below full time which is 40…so they, the company, doesn’t have to pay benefits ( not that I could afford the benefits they offer ( I think it $159 a month for only 50% of dental/medical cover, I had to come up with the other 50% out of pocket… I couldn’t afford that anyways) but you know, the poor doesn’t need to go to the doctor ever, we are never stress, or Hungary, or sick,….. who cares about the poor, right?
> 
> i also got penalized for having more than one job, too. How dare I. they wanted me completely open, so they can use me at any hour…they don’t like making regular schedules…you should work when they need you and if you have another job, well you’re not the right fit for our company....or you will only get 15 hours a week…


Most of these are government created problems... Yeah, they want you to be completely dependent on the government or else you don't get squat. As an able-bodied white male with no kids, I don't qualify for shit, even with no income whatsoever.

——————————-


MsMojiMoe said:


> im going to take your posts steps at a time
> 
> but I feel to give you a little background, some on here probably get sick of me saying this,….my parents divorced and I went with my mom and stepdad, we were in a cult and I got taken out by age 5...then I was place with my dad who was in the military, so I was a military brat, when I was 18, we just moved again, he fell in love again, but left me behind, thinking like you do…if I just work hard I will be fine….so I was completely on my own in a new place, California. With just the shirt off my back


This was your first problem, living in California. If you had lived pretty much anywhere else except NYC, you would have been fine. Friend of mine was abandoned on her own at 17 in Miami after her father died and her mother remarried... she struggled, but it wasn't as bad as trying to live in California.



MsMojiMoe said:


> i work whatever jobs I could, mostly retail ( which is the most degraded job), but I worked answering phones, caring in a home for dementia patients ( where they go to die, yes this also was only mini job, had 60 patients), i worked a skating ring, solar panel , many jobs etc….i try for many others places like the post office, ups, etc, but never got them.
> 
> after 3 years of complete abuse for customers and employers ( not all ) and realizing that you can’t make a living out of it ( this was early 2000s) bc no one told me that, it wasn’t until 2017 that ppl finally really started to make noise about livable jobs vs non livable ( no one ever use to use the word “livable” wage, this is very recent)
> so i became a dancer and I was finally able to eat, pay my bills, and do normal things like go on a date or hang with friends. Live, I got to finally live a little…..I hated the job, but it was better than suicide. Bc if I can’t make a living I can’t live.
> ...


Glad to hear things are looking up for you. It took a while for my sister to get out of low wage jobs, she went the nursing route. She still doesn't make a lot of money, but she has her own house and when she does work, she gets paid a lot.

My solution would be the above, close the damn border. Then wages will go up for everyone, but the poor most of all. More blacks and Hispanics were employed during the Trump administration when he enforced the law on illegal immigration than ever before in the history of the country.


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