# At the end of the day, nobody cares.



## Fennel (Jan 11, 2017)

Warning: this is more of a vent than asking for help. I feel that it's too late for advice.

Note: I'd typed this huge rant last night, but my computer bailed on me. Now I have to reconstruct my train of thought in parts.

Theoretically, I could accomplish just about anything if I set my mind to it. I'm not lacking in basic brain and muscle power. But my plans had been derailed too many times, and I've learned to doubt myself. I find little to no positive validation from friends and family. It doesn't help that none of my family share my interests. And now they are pushing me to find something "productive" to do. That means to get a real job. While I'm still a weeping mess every time I remember I got kicked out of school for the most stupid reasons (long and very personal story).

I have Asperger syndrome, and I'm a heavy Feeler type, to boot. I don't know how to make or keep friends, and it hurts terribly. I want more than acquaintances and casual friendships. I want more out of life than getting a job and making a living or even getting rich. I want real connections, intimate ones. And I feel I deserve them after all these years of sucking up to it in school to learn social skills. I know I can fake it to a point. But I don't want to fake it forever.

The problem is, whenever I have the opportunity to enjoy my life, say I find a cool hobby or discover anime/movies/music that interest me, I have no one to share them with. When I study music at home, nobody could help me. Everyone else is a distraction. You know what the worst feeling is? It's when you're starting to be happy, and then realize that you're alone in it. It takes me about 2 hours, that means I could enjoy a movie and then feel sorry for myself before it's done.

In my last school, I was on the Dean's List (GPA-based) for a year and on the Honors Circle (cumulative GPA) for the whole stay. But that didn't matter to anyone one or two persons didn't understand me. Did I hurt someone? Yes. Did it kill them, or crush their spirits? No. I am the one who is crushed. Where are all my hard-won friends? Where are all the teachers I confided with? At the end of the day, they don't care.

Why would I go back to society, and work or study again? Tell me. I can pretend to be normal, work my a** off all day, and then what? There is no rest. There is no home. I go home to my family, and they don't understand my mental and emotional needs at all. I'm running on empty and have no means to move out and find my place in the world. There might not even be such a place.


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## Librarian (Jun 14, 2016)

Sometimes I feel like I can't keep many worthwile friendships either; but that's partly negative thinking. 

I know you don't wanna hear this (though to be fair this is more question than advice) but have all your relationships really failed permanently? Odds are decent that at least one person still cares about you and sees you as a friend/ family member. And if you really were at fault for some problems, that doesn't mean people won't forgive you. Recently, I've made peace in some form with family who didn't see me as, well, the closest person. We still aren't, to be fair, yet I can't help but reflect how more kindly we speak to one another. My mom and her brother have been at odds yet recently at his daughters wedding they got closer. My mom gave her niece an old drawing that my uncle had "thrown away" some 25 years prior. Mom said simply that she loved her brother's art and was sad when he gave up on his passion, throwing all his art away. My uncle was touched by this and though their time was short it was obvious things were better between them. Sure it's just a start, but its something. 

Sometimes I guess we make things more complicated than they need to be. If you care about someone, then maybe it's worth stepping outside the status quo to reach them. It won't always work, mind you; heck it's failed me before many a time. It hurts if they reject you despite your attempts; but I've found it hurts more to wonder if maybe, _Just maybe,_ if you had reached out that perhaps they would have reached back. I never beg, but if there's a possibility for change, if I realize that I will be part of the problem if I don't, I'll give them another chance. Nothing more, nothing less. If they reject it again, move on again. At least you'll know it's not your fault; at least you'll know your not to blame and that you were right about them. 

Again, I'm not trying to tell you how to live your life; it's not like I know you. But... maybe at least one in your life person is worth giving another chance. Statistically speaking, we all know someone who is worth a chance for friendship.


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## Fennel (Jan 11, 2017)

The message I'm getting from people around me (real life) is that I'm not a friend worth keeping, or being close to. It is only on the internet that I ever get comments to the contrary, even people saying I'm physically beautiful.

When I fight for a relationship, I'm called clingy and overwhelming. When I don't take a stand, I either get pushed around or lose the friendship.

I'll work on a more detailed explanation later.


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## EndsOfTheEarth (Mar 14, 2015)

Sei35 said:


> I don't know how to make or keep friends, and it hurts terribly. I want more than acquaintances and casual friendships. I want real connections, intimate ones. And I feel I deserve them after all these years of sucking up to it in school to learn social skills.


This falls into the category of sad, but true. Most people don't have real friends, they have acquaintances. Oh of course they have people they hang around with all the time, but the first true test of that friendship (like needing something) and those connections crumble into the dust. It's very common. Even people who seem to have it all, actually don't. Meaningful connections with other human beings is one of the hardest things in life to develop, for everyone. 



> Why would I go back to society, and work or study again? Tell me. I can pretend to be normal, work my a** off all day, and then what? There is no rest. There is no home.


 Because......


> I have no means to move out and find my place in the world.


That's why, and also because in the long run you just have no choice about it. Sooner or later, probably sooner your family will drive you insane or they'll kick you out. Either way, you've got to get on with life and that means doing a lot of things you don't want to do right now. But the good news is, that once you get along that path a little bit, you actually realise there are positive things in it for you, like your sanity, and an apartment to call your own, and a life to call your own where you can tell your parents to go to hell if you want. 

I know you didn't want advice, and I'm not counting this as that. It's just a verbal reaction to your vent post.


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## Eren Jaegerbomb (Nov 13, 2015)

I feel like none of my friends really "care" about be either. Its like I'm the third wheel everytime...

Well, I'll be happy when I get my own place....
Whenever that would be... Apartments are expensive...


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## Fennel (Jan 11, 2017)

Librarian said:


> I know you don't wanna hear this (though to be fair this is more question than advice) but have all your relationships really failed permanently? Odds are decent that at least one person still cares about you and sees you as a friend/ family member. And if you really were at fault for some problems, that doesn't mean people won't forgive you...
> 
> Sometimes I guess we make things more complicated than they need to be. If you care about someone, then maybe it's worth stepping outside the status quo to reach them. It won't always work, mind you; heck it's failed me before many a time. It hurts if they reject you despite your attempts; but I've found it hurts more to wonder if maybe, _Just maybe,_ if you had reached out that perhaps they would have reached back. I never beg...
> 
> Again, I'm not trying to tell you how to live your life; it's not like I know you. But... maybe at least one in your life person is worth giving another chance. Statistically speaking, we all know someone who is worth a chance for friendship.


I appreciate all comments, as long as they're not too critical.

Actually, my relationships aren't that bad. I don't plan on painting anyone in a bad light here. I have a handful of friends left and my family is supportive of me. My parents paid for my music lessons, and my business partner often keeps me company. But that's all there is. None of my family appreciate classic literature, relatively obscure rock bands, or foreign movies. None of my friends and family are into classical music, which is my field of study. 

But that's just the tip of the iceberg. They have no idea how to meet my emotional needs. I feel disconnected, and the worst part is when people say I'm too intelligent or I think too much. I'm actually a Feeler and not a Thinker, but I've been pegged as a thinker because of some achievements in grade school. I talked to my mentor lately, and he says that I should aim to be excellent in music and ignore everyone else. That surely worked for him, but it will never work for me because of my need for validation and deep sense of loneliness.

As far as my school is concerned, if I make one step inside the admin office and not fly into a rage, that's practically begging. They neglected to correct my transcript, so it seems I failed most of my subjects instead of being withdrawn from school. These people are not bad either, they are respectable people from a prestigious institution, and if I took the case to the government, I would surely lose.

As far as individual relationships are concerned... I'd tried reaching out to old friends, and they did not treat me kindly. For example, a girl I used to like assumed I was stalking her just because I added her on Facebook and said hi. I hadn't even thought of her for years, and just wanted to keep in touch with high school batchmates. I'd gotten myself an awful reputation. So I don't bother reaching out to HS classmates anymore.

If I reached out to any of my old "friends", it would practically be begging, as I don't belong in their circle. Even if I did get in, I would have to create those persona all over again. First I humble myself by asking, and then I humiliate myself by trying to be who I am not. What in the world could be worth that kind of self-harm? Honestly, for most of my life I thought it would work. If only I were more sociable and outgoing. If only I had similar interests. If only... It never worked, and I'm no masochist. I'm not doing that again.

In the past, I cared about others so intensely that I put them off. Now I wonder if I should care at all.
But living only for myself feels so empty. It's ridiculous.



EndsOfTheEarth said:


> Meaningful connections with other human beings is one of the hardest things in life to develop, for everyone.
> 
> That's why, and also because in the long run you just have no choice about it. Sooner or later, probably sooner your family will drive you insane or they'll kick you out. Either way, you've got to get on with life and that means doing a lot of things you don't want to do right now. But the good news is, that once you get along that path a little bit, you actually realise there are positive things in it for you, like your sanity, and an apartment to call your own, and a life to call your own where you can tell your parents to go to hell if you want.


I don't think life without meaningful connection is worth living. Otherwise, what are hands, mouths, language, and hearts for?

Like I said, I can fake it to a point. Maybe I'll get a good job. I can do that. Maybe I can ignore my emotions enough so I'll be rich and be able to indulge in my interests. But that wouldn't make me happy. Like Gatsby throwing parties and being miserable anyway because the love of his life doesn't notice him.

My problem is at the end of the day, the meaninglessness of it all catches up to me. Because I am alone.



ArminMuffinArlert said:


> I feel like none of my friends really "care" about be either. Its like I'm the third wheel everytime...
> 
> Well, I'll be happy when I get my own place....
> Whenever that would be... Apartments are expensive...


And it hurts, right? I've always been the third, fourth, even fifth wheel. The girl who gets picked last.

If it would really make you happy, I hope you get your own place.


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## EndsOfTheEarth (Mar 14, 2015)

Sei35 said:


> I don't think life without meaningful connection is worth living. Otherwise, what are hands, mouths, language, and hearts for?
> My problem is at the end of the day, the meaninglessness of it all catches up to me. Because I am alone.


Wish I could say I relate, but actually I don't. Not trying to be rude, it's just I've never had that desire in my life like that. Relationships with others aren't that important to me.


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## Ultio (Nov 22, 2016)

Life is what you make it out to be. You are the master of your own fate! I may not understand your pain, but I do know that you have to keep pushing forward. Even if you don't find any meaning now or you are alone you have to keep pushing forward!


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## Enxu (Dec 14, 2012)

I'm not much better than you, if not worse. Grew up in a very hostile/negative family environment, first hand witness to domestic violence since the age of three, survivor of two decades of on-off verbal/emotional abuse from both parents (still ongoing), had numerous suicidal thoughts the past decade or so, had romantic interests that never materialised or ended with me being the one who was manipulated/cheated on. Thank God that my sanity is intact and I did not lose my virginity to any dickheads. My life has been hell of a ride already at the age of 25, the only thing keeping me alive is my Christian faith and a fighting indignation to overcome. 

My parents had been pretty much major failures in raising me (other than keeping me well fed and clothed and educated), they taught me no social skills other than being aggressive/extreme and negative in my thought patterns. one had years of explosive temper and verbal abuse/emotional oppression issues, obsessive thinking patterns and only recently changed dramatically (still the damage is done). The other is weak-willed, a hedonist who always had excuses for being such a bad role model, yet had temper tantrums like a 3-year old and puts people down thinking it is some form of valid correction for being a parent. 

You can imagine how difficult it is then, for me to have normal social life or even a life of any sort. I never had one regular social life, in fact, though I did have people who took me as friends throughout my schooling years. I had always been a hardworking student, and managed to graduate from a prestigious university amidst suicidal thoughts, PTSD and depression. I know I am not detestable, but the constant exposure to harm and hurt on a psychological level from both family and outsiders caused me to pick up on negative patterns and had me walling myself up to the point I am literally sick of face-to-face interactions on a long term basis. I get suspicious when I sense the slightest tendency/likelihood that someone had bad intentions and I run for the hills before the other party even knows what's gone wrong. I am so protective of myself now, and having my life put in so many harmful situations against my will, that I cannot allow a single person to come into my life unless I am 100% sure that the person has no ill will towards me. I wall off my closest friends, prefer to be a hermit because I simply have nothing good to share. Even my career is at a standstill because of the financial downturn. If you were me, you would probably think my life is too miserable a one to even live in. 

Sometimes I just hope the world would end, judgment would come and the persistent/unrepentant sins committed against me punished, because I have a pretty solid case to vindicate myself already based on what I have been through, and the fact that I have not yet turned into an abusive monster on a killing spree for the level of hatred this world has dealt me with. What's more, I know I am not the only one in such a predicament, millions upon millions are secretly suffering as much if not more than you or I. 

Sad to say, this world is hatred filled and destroys whomever it can, esp. those who were victimised/vulnerable/weak early on in life. Nobody cares because most are so busy fighting for their own survival, and for those few fortunate ones, fighting for a more luxurious life. If you don't fight, you will lose out.

I would wish to be more positive in my post, but this is the harsh reality I myself have witnessed and live in. If I have not given up the fight, maybe you shouldn't either.


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## Kajada (Nov 19, 2016)

"The problem is, whenever I have the opportunity to enjoy my life, say I find a cool hobby or discover anime/movies/music that interest me, I have no one to share them with. When I study music at home, nobody could help me. Everyone else is a distraction. You know what the worst feeling is? It's when you're starting to be happy, and then realize that you're alone in it. "

I relate so strongly especially to this statement. I'm pretty sure I've written something quite similar to it somewhere on here at some point. 

I've definitely experienced a sort of apathy toward the world and a despair that I will ever find someone who understands and embraces me for who I am. Someone who gets me, and doesn't just tolerate me, who loves me because of the person I am. Everyone up to this point I thought actually did proved me wrong in spectacular fashion so that now, at 30 years old, I've become quite isolated. Sometimes it brings me down and other times I'm content in it but when it does get me down it can be pretty miserable. 

I don't have a recommendation for you that you probably haven't already heard. I'm still searching for the meaning or the purpose in my life. For me, that has been an inward journey. Spirituality, not religion. I'm not there yet, but it helps me to feel better, exploring my soul to see if there's anything there to see. I'm also trying some new hobbies, since working with my hands and doing something that gives me a sense of accomplishment helps to pull me out of that depression. It's been a while since I had a low spell, thankfully, but every now and then the sky closes and I'm in darkness. If you ever need someone to talk to, my inbox is always open.


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## Belzy (Aug 12, 2013)

I keep guessing right when an INFJ makes a certain post...

Reminds me too much of an INFJ I've felt close with, but...............................................


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## angeleyes (Feb 20, 2013)

You do express yourself beautifully, though.
I hope things get better for you soon.


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## Fennel (Jan 11, 2017)

This is hopeless. I've tried everything within legal limits I could think of to feel better. And I'm still a broken person.

I could have the most awesome day... and then feel terrible in the evening because I'll be sleeping alone.
I could theoretically graduate, get a good job, money, fame, success... and then want to die because I have nobody to share myself with.

I wish to disappear. It seems I have no choice but to fake my way through life, or die early. Either way, I'll die alone, so why not sooner?


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## Word Dispenser (May 18, 2012)

Sei35 said:


> Why would I go back to society, and work or study again? Tell me. I can pretend to be normal, work my a** off all day, and then what? There is no rest. There is no home. I go home to my family, and they don't understand my mental and emotional needs at all. I'm running on empty and have no means to move out and find my place in the world. There might not even be such a place.


Residential fortune teller here, to offer my two cents.

Perhaps you don't take stock in this, but take heart. Through life, to become stronger, and perhaps a little bit stranger, we are met with obstacles that seem insurmountable. Yours, at this time, is loneliness. It is a powerful, and terrible thing, to feel lonely. And it is very difficult to discern when you have a true friend. And, you're quite correct-- You have not had anyone who is there for you right now-- Or who is _able _to be. 

But, you have strength. I see this in you. You are an incredibly strong individual. You're feeling very bitter now, and this has the potential to take you in two distinct directions, at this time. (I see other paths, but they are not as clear when you are not in the mindset to make them.)

On the first path: You succumb, and accept your fate of friendlessness. You either decide to end it here, or continue (Most likely, you will continue, because your will to live is stronger than you realize): For several years, you waste your time with personal distractions to escape, become a recluse, and mourn the decisions you made. It's a dark path, and it's long, and miserable. You eventually emerge on the other side, tired, and feeling broken, but able to heal. You launch into a true romance you're not ready for, with support, compassion, and love, and become brow-beaten by your own emotions, because you haven't allowed yourself to open up to anyone in years. This is the most difficult path for you. 

On the second path: In spite of it all, you decide to beat the loneliness with productivity. You put actual effort into finding people that you mesh well with, that have true loyalty, and similar interests. You distract yourself, as in the first path, with indulgence when you are at low points, but continue to progress forward. You go on the look out for people to spend time with. It's difficult, but with time, you find it to be easier and easier. For some reason, I'm seeing a book club (Do you like to read?). You volunteer your time and effort toward what will make you happy, and you find that, with the effort you put into it, you actually finally are. You are no longer lonely, and you end up with a small circle of friends who truly care, that you can spend time with, without feeling like you're wearing a mask. There is true reciprocal interest. And, when you find that true romance, should it be wanted, you will be more ready for it. It will feel easy, and right, and what you need.


Those are the paths I see for you, at this time. They are subject to change rapidly, depending on your outlook. But, I wanted you to see a piece of your possible futures, so that you might judge more readily, your situation. Because, if you succumb-- You can still be happy. But, it will take longer, most likely.

If you fight the loneliness, and be strong for yourself, it can only bode well for you.


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## Allosy (Jul 28, 2016)

Just be yourself. You don't have to do anything because you're "supposed" to. Things will come to you naturally.


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## atamagasuita (May 15, 2016)

Fi. You should practice and enhance your Fe. It will helped you through life. Plus deduct Ne.. Add Se.  

Okay. Stop thinking about yourself too much. Be interested in others rather than asking people to be interested in you.. Everyone wants every body to be interested in them! So nothing will happen if you just wait some one to be interested in you. 

It's like "do to others what you want them to do to you" 

And always be careful that 80% of your thoughts are only self inflicted. Waking up in reality. Analyze, what's the real problem? Is it my environment? Is it the people?! I wanna go somewhere.. Then you'll be surprised the same problem exist.. Because the problem is inside you, not with your environment, not with people. "no man is an island" 

Yeah at the end of the day, people think only of themselves. Not about you. Not about anything. Probably they will think of you like 1% of their thoughts.. But most of the time, they only think about themselves.


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## atamagasuita (May 15, 2016)

Sei35 said:


> This is hopeless. I've tried everything within legal limits I could think of to feel better. And I'm still a broken person.
> 
> I could have the most awesome day... and then feel terrible in the evening because I'll be sleeping alone.
> I could theoretically graduate, get a good job, money, fame, success... and then want to die because I have nobody to share myself with.
> ...


Stop thinking. Get out of your room. You need to breathe some fresh air. Distract yourself from that unhealthy thoughts.. You're only torturing yourself.


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## Enxu (Dec 14, 2012)

Sei35 said:


> This is hopeless. I've tried everything within legal limits I could think of to feel better. And I'm still a broken person.
> 
> I could have the most awesome day... and then feel terrible in the evening because I'll be sleeping alone.
> I could theoretically graduate, get a good job, money, fame, success... and then want to die because I have nobody to share myself with.
> ...


Your feelings are only temporary. I am curious though, who do you want to share your life with? Why are you so keen to do so at this moment? 

Have you thought of volunteering? If anything, volunteer work gives you a chance to help others and share a part of you.


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## Fennel (Jan 11, 2017)

Enxu said:


> I'm not much better than you, if not worse. Grew up in a very hostile/negative family environment, first hand witness to domestic violence since the age of three, survivor of two decades of on-off verbal/emotional abuse from both parents (still ongoing), had numerous suicidal thoughts the past decade or so, had romantic interests that never materialised or ended with me being the one who was manipulated/cheated on. Thank God that my sanity is intact and I did not lose my virginity to any dickheads. My life has been hell of a ride already at the age of 25, the only thing keeping me alive is my Christian faith and a fighting indignation to overcome.
> ...
> 
> Sometimes I just hope the world would end, judgment would come and the persistent/unrepentant sins committed against me punished, because I have a pretty solid case to vindicate myself already based on what I have been through, and the fact that I have not yet turned into an abusive monster on a killing spree for the level of hatred this world has dealt me with. What's more, I know I am not the only one in such a predicament, millions upon millions are secretly suffering as much if not more than you or I.


Wow, that's awful. But you did make it. And you kept your sanity. Now that I've gotten kicked out of school for the 3rd time, I'm getting the blame for making my life a mess. Honestly though, I don't think I could have done anything better. I did hold on to my Christian faith as far as I could, but that made it worse because it was my Christian confidant who filed the case against me.

Unlike you, I am not so protective, and I don't know when I should put my guard up. I still want to believe that people are inherently good and that someone might actually care enough about me to try to understand, and not just talk about it. Like, "it will be okay," and "you can talk to me," and then they disappear or cut you off when you have a real problem already.

I do have violent thoughts and anger issues sometimes, but isn't that natural considering what I've been through? Most friends and all persons of authority that I trusted betrayed my trust. I'm amazed that I didn't turn into a monster. Still... your story makes me sound like a weepy wimp of a person. I'm really sorry.



Kajada said:


> "The problem is, whenever I have the opportunity to enjoy my life, say I find a cool hobby or discover anime/movies/music that interest me, I have no one to share them with. When I study music at home, nobody could help me. Everyone else is a distraction. You know what the worst feeling is? It's when you're starting to be happy, and then realize that you're alone in it. "
> 
> I relate so strongly especially to this statement. I'm pretty sure I've written something quite similar to it somewhere on here at some point.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the inbox offer. I really didn't mean to dump this on PerC, at least not so soon. I was at a low point and looking for new friends while my close friend was taking a break from me. I thought she would come back in a few days, but it's been three weeks now. I think I really did lose her. She's the only one who understands me, and now she's gone because I wanted to be too intimate with her. I love her very much, but I have no other way to contact her and to prove I'm not a dangerous person. 



angeleyes said:


> You do express yourself beautifully, though.
> I hope things get better for you soon.


Thank you. I hope so too. At one point, my only social life was online, so I learned to write expressive emails and posts...



Word Dispenser said:


> Perhaps you don't take stock in this, but take heart. Through life, to become stronger, and perhaps a little bit stranger, we are met with obstacles that seem insurmountable. Yours, at this time, is loneliness. It is a powerful, and terrible thing, to feel lonely. And it is very difficult to discern when you have a true friend. And, you're quite correct-- You have not had anyone who is there for you right now-- Or who is _able _to be.
> 
> But, you have strength. I see this in you. You are an incredibly strong individual. You're feeling very bitter now, and this has the potential to take you in two distinct directions, at this time. (I see other paths, but they are not as clear when you are not in the mindset to make them.)
> 
> ...


I know you mean well, but this raises some red flags... The main thing is that it will take YEARS to get me out of this pit either way. Years before I find real friends, and even longer before I find real love. I don't even know how I'll survive another night! Again it's 3am and it's either numbing yourself out with meds or crying yourself to sleep.

I am in love with somebody, I am quite sure she's the one for me, and yet it will take years for the relationship to materialize, if it ever will. How can I stay sane for such a long time? She could be married by the time I'm ready! Or I could be an entirely different person - a "mature" person with no depth of emotion - by the time she's ready! This is terrible...



atamagasuita said:


> Stop thinking. Get out of your room. You need to breathe some fresh air. Distract yourself from that unhealthy thoughts.. You're only torturing yourself.


Haha, I do take walks in the morning. It's the night that gets me. The midnight hours when I'm all alone, can't sleep, and the feelings just keep pouring in...



Enxu said:


> Your feelings are only temporary. I am curious though, who do you want to share your life with? Why are you so keen to do so at this moment?
> 
> Have you thought of volunteering? If anything, volunteer work gives you a chance to help others and share a part of you.


I'm not so sure about that. I've had a generally low mood for most of my life, and I'm just now realizing how wounded I really am. Who? That special someone. Or that best friend. Or even a few bffs. Never quite had one of those. People want only parts of me, the good or the cool parts. Some parts I don't even own up to (like seeming intelligent). I had a relationship with the totally wrong person. He's a nice guy, but he's a thinker. This kind of stuff baffles him. I cried a lot when we were together and he couldn't do or say anything to make me feel better... So... I'm not keen on sharing only parts, but the whole, if you get what I mean.

Volunteering sounds cool, but it would be too exhausting for me in this state. I can't even help myself, I'm so ridiculously empty.


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## atamagasuita (May 15, 2016)

@Sei35 being a Christian and praying and listening to some Christian music works like magic. It gives me peace. Before when i was not a Christian i cannot really really sleep. But when i turn to be a Christian i can sleep like in 5 minutes! 😁 it gives me peace and yeah. It's really healthy to be a Christian for me. The best! 😁


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## Fennel (Jan 11, 2017)

@Peter

Yep, that's exactly the clinical tone I was talking about that leaves me cold.
That kills motivation. So does survival mode.
Thanks for validating and invalidating emotions at the same time. 

I know there's an intellectual sympathy there, but what I'm asking for is almost purely emotional. I've poured my heart out on here and it hardly resonated with anyone. I'm _absolutely not_ trying to avoid expressing my emotions although in real life, it is a must. This thread started out okay, but now it just proves and extends my problem in the OP. People in real life can't relate to me and so the go to lengths to avoid me. Online, they're much more open but the disconnect is still there. I feel lonelier and more hopeless than ever.

Don't get me wrong, @Peter , it's not your fault if you can't relate emotionally or you're a cold logical thinker.


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## strawberryLola (Sep 19, 2010)

You're really hard on yourself Sei, hard as those who have hurt or betrayed you. Sounds like you've been searching everywhere to find help, you've been seeking for answers outside of you, avoiding, running away, self-abandoning you, when your innermost wishes and dreams are within you.

You mentioned feeling bright and capable at a young age, and somewhere along the way you learned, I say learned because the critical voices did not come from you, you learned to put yourself down from those you sought out the most. 

if you can go back and revisit that time in your life where you were having fun and carefree, sit there for a moment, and remember how you felt when you fully loved and accepted yourself. A song during that time period can help you to remember, or reading a book that helps you get back to who you were, and sit there for one second and smile at the woman you've become today. You're still that same person, just somewhat lost for a second because society, family, friends tried to put you in a box.

Name 5 of your top qualities you love about yourself. Name 5 of your favorite activities you kick ass in. If you can remember an inspiring person in your life, imagine they are there with you by your side. And don't forget to stop dancing and singing if your heart desires so! And envision where you want to be, what you want to do, what Sei loves to do and treat yourself to it sometime..anywhere relaxing or fun.


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## Peter (Feb 27, 2010)

Sei35 said:


> @*Peter*
> 
> Yep, that's exactly the clinical tone I was talking about that leaves me cold.
> That kills motivation. So does survival mode.
> ...


I get it,.. you want empathy from people. To feel like they understand what you´re going through. The fact that you don't get that much from people actually confirms what I think is the mechanism of empathy,..... you can't have empathy unless you have experienced what the other person is experiencing. Since we´re all human beings most of us have experienced what other people have experienced and thus they can empathize. But your experiences aren't very common so it's not easy to get empathy from many people.

That's why there is such a thing as therapy groups. You put a bunch of people together in a room that suffer from the same problem. All the people in that room will empathize with you very easily. One therapist in there to make sure the conversations in the group lead to positive development in dealing with the problem. Maybe you tried that too and that too didn't work. If that's the case, then what you want isn't just emotional. In that case, you want the empathy from specific people. (Your family, some friends)

And you´re right, I can't empathize with your situation. Which is weird because I am not a stranger to having interest that few people find interesting as well. It's actually quite typical. If you talk about stuff that's doesn't exist in people's tiny little worlds then they just change the subject straight in your face. That actually reminds of a scene from the Aviator movie. (Lanny built a bird house once)






ignore the money part, it's about where he talks about something that he's passioned about and someone just kills it straight in his face. That's happened to me quite often when I was younger. Now I just know how to avoid those situation. Actually makes me feel superior over many people. (which isn't rational at all, I know that, but,....... I don't care.)

But you do care,.. a lot I guess,... about specific people being able to share your passions with.

I don't empathize with your need to have specific people to share your passions with. It seems to me that if you search, you'll find them. From what I read your passions aren't that weird. But they are a niche. Yet you insist that your family understands you and some people who you like enough you would be friends with them.

You really can't find anyone that has similar interests?


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## Fennel (Jan 11, 2017)

strawberryLola said:


> You're really hard on yourself Sei, hard as those who have hurt or betrayed you. Sounds like you've been searching everywhere to find help, you've been seeking for answers outside of you, avoiding, running away, self-abandoning you, when your innermost wishes and dreams are within you.


"Abandonment issues" sums it up pretty nicely. But being different is being abandoned by default.

I don't have a lot of emotional references for "fun", "carefree", or "inspired". Since I was school age, I was always chasing after other people's approval. My memory fails me for the time before that.



Peter said:


> I get it,.. you want empathy from people. To feel like they understand what you´re going through. The fact that you don't get that much from people actually confirms what I think is the mechanism of empathy,..... you can't have empathy unless you have experienced what the other person is experiencing. Since we´re all human beings most of us have experienced what other people have experienced and thus they can empathize. But your experiences aren't very common so it's not easy to get empathy from many people.
> 
> But you do care,.. a lot I guess,... about specific people being able to share your passions with.
> 
> ...


What I want from family is that they appreciate what I've done so far as regards schooling and my course. I did make it halfway the course before the breakdown. The fact that they couldn't help my case gives me the impression that the school was right to reject me despite the honors earned, hours put in, blood, sweat and tears, etc. Music education is not easy, and none of my family are musicians, artists or have interest in fine arts and history. Was all I studied and went through for naught?

Nope, people can have seemingly similar interests, but for totally different reasons. Literature and music come to mind. Most people I meet who are interested in this stuff, irl and online, are in it for more intellectual reasons. Or more technical, show-offy reasons. Like reading the classics only for their philosophy and playing only fast pieces on the piano - both are big turn offs for me... It's really hard to explain why I like something but it has a lot to do with feelings.

There were a few people who I thought understood me and had that depth of Ni/Fi that I craved. But I lost them. I clung to them too tightly and they ran off.


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## Peter (Feb 27, 2010)

Sei35 said:


> "Abandonment issues" sums it up pretty nicely. But being different is being abandoned by default.
> 
> I don't have a lot of emotional references for "fun", "carefree", or "inspired". Since I was school age, I was always chasing after other people's approval. My memory fails me for the time before that.
> 
> ...


The deeper you go, the less people that exist that see and feel things exactly the way you do. In the end, you´re a unique person. No-one sees and feels exactly like you do. I think that's a good thing. We´re not robots.

And yes, family should support you even when they don't get you. At least should make an effort to understand you. (unless of course you went way over the limits, then their support should be a little different.)

I don't know how much you've learned about music, but in my opinion, it's never for naught. Even though few people know that much about music, this is great stuff to understand. I wish I knew that much about music and the theory behind it. I don't appreciate it in the same way you do I guess, but still, even if it's just for yourself, it is great to understand (my case) or feel (your case) what the heck is going on. On some levels you can even get into the mind of the writer/composer. (though that usually requires knowing a bit more about the writer/composer.)

Anyway,.... it seems to me that the solution to your problem lays with yourself. You can develop your ability to comunicate with other people in such a way that you can get from them what you want from them. Not with everyone of course, but definitely more people than you have access to now.

You probably think that's all too cold and logical, :smile:, but if there is one thing I have learned about one's emotional development is that a little bit of rational understanding and implenting a little bit of rationally motivated strategies can have a very positive effect on one's emotional development. Fi has the nasty side effect that once it got used to something, it likes to get stuck in it. It can very strongly guide one's perceving functions and make you blind to obvious holes in your emotional judgments.


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## Fennel (Jan 11, 2017)

I definitely want empathy or understanding. Not so much love as I thought at first. Maybe I wouldn't even crave closeness as long as I felt understood. Unfortunately I hardly feel that, in spite the best efforts from some friends, family and professionals.

My INTJ partner has stuck around and is trying to understand while not really "getting it", while my INFP friend, who we both think/feel understands me very well, has chosen to leave me. This is very hard to swallow because if it were up to me, I'd gladly give up one for the other. (Sorry, INTJ.)

I just want to make it clear here that I'm not deliberately trying to be negative or paint myself as a victim. I really really really want to get out of this rut but there isn't any way for me to talk about my problems without being emotional again. Having problems is not fun. It's not some puzzle that I like to solve either. The emotions are too extreme for that. I get either extremely depressed or extremely angry, it's all or nothing, there is no middle path.

People are taking measures to keep me out of their lives, personally and professionally. I don't see how I could make that into something positive. It hurts. Period. It hurts because I put my heart into my relationships. I'm not good at socializing or fitting in, but I work at. 3 years at the school, and 4 years with my former friend. It's like setting an elaborate table all alone, and then having it overturned at me just because I'm clumsy and dropped a cup. Now I have to start all over again, except the people I've been doing this for have already left. And I'm thinking, what's the point in all of that?

It hurts because I really wanted to go out there and do some good. But the loneliness and abandonment kicks in and I end up being a physical and emotional shut in. Even more than serving humanity at large, I just want to personally care for someone and have that deep intimate relationship. And I want to be cared for and nurtured. I have emotional needs to be met too, that I can't quite supply all by myself.

I know it's just Fi-Ni going haywire, but I can't help but feel that if I go out there, my heart is going to get trampled all over again. Tables turning in my face. Over and over again.


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## Deejaz (Feb 19, 2014)

I'm sorry you're going through this. You're such a lovely person, we've had a bit of fun there at the INFJ forum. I like it when you get excited about something! I don't know what you're going through.. But you can pull through this, we're always stronger than we think we are. You are a sweet heart but the world isn't always sweet back nor is it always fair or understanding. 

I know you don't want advice, but there are really so much more out there to explore! So much to see, feel.. learn, and to grow from.

May I suggest getting a puppy you can pour your love into? You can talk to them about anything


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## Fennel (Jan 11, 2017)

Deejaz said:


> I'm sorry you're going through this. You're such a lovely person, we've had a bit of fun there at the INFJ forum. I like it when you get excited about something! I don't know what you're going through.. But you can pull through this, we're always stronger than we think we are. You are a sweet heart but the world isn't always sweet back nor is it always fair or understanding.
> 
> I know you don't want advice, but there are really so much more out there to explore! So much to see, feel.. learn, and to grow from.
> 
> May I suggest getting a puppy you can pour your love into? You can talk to them about anything


Why, hello! I enjoy the INFJ forum as well. You are all such lovely people! I wish there were more people in my life like you... :kitteh:

Oh dear, what did I get excited about? You might have caught me thinking about someone! :blushed:

Yes, I should get a pet. We did have puppies a while back before my dad transferred them to the farm. A puppy or a kitten would be nice. Someone cuddly. :kitteh:

Well, that explains how I get to spend so much time on here... *sighs...*
I really appreciate hanging out with like-minded people, even if it's just online. I'm also looking for some positive role models. Some idea of what I can aim for to do in the future. Motivation. Any reason to get out of bed, really.


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## Deejaz (Feb 19, 2014)

Sei35 said:


> Why, hello! I enjoy the INFJ forum as well. You are all such lovely people! I wish there were more people in my life like you... :kitteh:
> 
> Oh dear, what did I get excited about? You might have caught me thinking about someone! :blushed:
> 
> ...



Someone special, huh?  Yeah, exactly. Cuddly and perfect! I'm all for good role models. Maybe you can share them with me when you've found some epic people to look up to?


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## Mirkwood (Jul 16, 2014)

Sei35 said:


> Warning: this is more of a vent than asking for help. I feel that it's too late for advice.
> 
> Note: I'd typed this huge rant last night, but my computer bailed on me. Now I have to reconstruct my train of thought in parts.
> 
> ...



Hmm.. there is a saying that goes like.. Those who don't mind are good and to keep, while those who mind are not to keep.
When someone doesn't mind, doesn't mean they don't care.

Okay, that got a bit twisty. I guess what i mean to say is that your parents and others are not being angry with you and such?, when you fail or other, that can also be nice.
Actually i don't always like that saying myself, I think it can also be good to mind what others do, since you may want good for them.


It indeed sucks when feeling there is nobody to share with. I am last born, with 9 or so years to my other brother, and none of them i really shared that many interests with. because they simply did not grow up with computers and such, music, etc. 

But you do sometimes find others you share interest with right?, and that is awesome?. may not become friends forever and ever, but you got a good talk.


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## Tanderson (Aug 6, 2016)

AAADD Cocoon said:


> I keep guessing right when an INFJ makes a certain post...
> 
> Reminds me too much of an INFJ I've felt close with, but...............................................


Personnaly, it reminds me of an INFP I've felt very close with, *BUT......* :/


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## Tanderson (Aug 6, 2016)

Ok.

Haven't read this topic entirely, but I understand what you've been through. I knew someone that was exactly like you. She was a deep feeler and an very broken girl that wanted a deep and intense relationship. I know what it's like not to feel understood and just to seek for people to feel totally connected with.

On the contrary, I tend to escape from such a deep friendship. It's too overwhelming to me. I feel like I can't hold my own feelings and doubts and also my friend's one. My intimacy was too often violated by a terrifying and stressful environment, so I need time to myself to "reconnect" to my personality. Or maybe I fear this kinda intense friendships. Indeed, I have a hard time talking about myself and revealing my weaknesses, as well as my deepest passions and interests.

Like I said in another post, I'm a deep feeler too. It is interesting to see that, although 2 people work this way, their needs and desires can be different. This might help us understanding why it is impossible to connect to certain people.

I personally experienced being intensely close to someone, but it was to someone I felt in love with. He was a boyfriend, not just a friend. I think I need this kind of connection, and not a friendship. I'm totally confident when I fall in love.

Hope you'll be better and you'll live this friendship you're waiting for with all your heart.


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## Peter (Feb 27, 2010)

Sei35 said:


> I definitely want empathy or understanding. Not so much love as I thought at first. Maybe I wouldn't even crave closeness as long as I felt understood. Unfortunately I hardly feel that, in spite the best efforts from some friends, family and professionals.
> 
> My INTJ partner has stuck around and is trying to understand while not really "getting it", while my INFP friend, who we both think/feel understands me very well, has chosen to leave me. This is very hard to swallow because if it were up to me, I'd gladly give up one for the other. (Sorry, INTJ.)
> 
> ...


You sound like someone I know. And in my experience, it doesn't matter what people do to help her, it always goes back to the next problem. Everything always has to be a problem it seems. I know that's not the intention, but it always (always!) ends up the same way. And the people that actually try to help are the once "less" understood with the result that after a while they end up taking more distance because it's like this person doesn't want to be helped.

It seems like people like this are most comfortable in their own missery. It doesn't make them happy though, but every little sign of emotional empathy you give and they can't even keep their hands of you. Holding on to your hands staring at you in a moment of total happiness of being understood and cared for. But it's just a moment. And it's that moment they live for. And appearantly it requires this whole emotional storm to get people to show some empathy and understanding, every time more is needed to get the same response from people. It's almost like an addiction.

And of course people try to avoid that because it puts people in a very uncomfortable position.

To me it seemed fake at first. Then I realized that the subject of the conversation is never the actual problem. It's this need for that moment of connection, that feeling, just for a moment, that someone cares and understands.

Can you be cared for if you don't really want their care, but just the feeling that they care?


You need to figure out what it is that you need. You may think you want to be cared for but that's not the "fix" that you need. You want those intense moments of connection, and then specifically the feeling that comes with it in those moments. It's your brain's reward system that got addicted to those intense moments. It's what you live for without realizing it. It's an addiction, a chemical addiction and a mental addiction. A difficult combination to deal with. Medication can help with the chemical addiction, but the mental addiction,... that you have to solve yourself.


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## poodiepie (Apr 1, 2014)

Oh boy~~ I just wanna let you know your title, At the end of the day, nobody cares is just *exactly* what I thought today in my work. Sigh, I just think no one would care. 

And, "whenever I have the opportunity to enjoy my life, say I find a cool hobby or discover anime/movies/music that interest me, I have no one to share them with. When I study music at home, nobody could help me. Everyone else is a distraction. You know what the worst feeling is? It's when you're starting to be happy, and then realize that you're alone in it." 

Oh my... I can relate to this. I feel like I'm always alone in my hobbies. I must be really wrong to like those hobbies... literature, art, music, social science and sometimes even liking science is offensive. I guess I am just too deep for everyone... Sigh.
( Today a coworker asked me what do I do when I am not at work. I said, "I play music." Well, apparently that is too deep and too intense as well. Should just answer watch tv I guess.) I happen to learn music too. I don't know what exactly do you study, but I'm all on chord progression and stuff. (I play the piano)

"I have Asperger syndrome... Want more than acquaintances and casual friendships. I want more out of life than getting a job and making a living or even getting rich. I want real connections, intimate ones."

Well, again, this is exactly me. I always imagine myself being with a tight knit of people, (then .. we will do all sorts of things together ...) I'd always dreamed of having these relationships. But then, the reality , the people around me seems to be totally on a different spectrum... 

I really don't know if this has something to do with being an introvert. I know I'm perhaps intense, always too intense in some people's eyes.
There's so much to say, yet so little capacity to listen from people. In the end of the day, people don't want to listen.

( Read some replies, all I wanna say is, me, I am just being me. However, that seems to be too much for some people. Will try to expand on this later. )


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## poodiepie (Apr 1, 2014)

Peter said:


> You sound like someone I know. And in my experience, it doesn't matter what people do to help her, it always goes back to the next problem. Everything always has to be a problem it seems. I know that's not the intention, but it always (always!) ends up the same way. And the people that actually try to help are the once "less" understood with the result that after a while they end up taking more distance because it's like this person doesn't want to be helped.
> 
> It seems like people like this are most comfortable in their own missery. It doesn't make them happy though, but every little sign of emotional empathy you give and they can't even keep their hands of you. Holding on to your hands staring at you in a moment of total happiness of being understood and cared for. But it's just a moment. And it's that moment they live for. And appearantly it requires this whole emotional storm to get people to show some empathy and understanding, every time more is needed to get the same response from people. It's almost like an addiction.
> 
> ...


OP said she wants to share her hobbies, yet no one in her life seems to be willing to share with her. That could be a source of loneliness and creates problems. Not sure if that could be the 'problem' that it is rooted beneath, at least I think it could be.


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## Xyfen (Feb 20, 2017)

This feeling is very similar to me. If I were a stranger and accidentally hear you saying this, I would definitely sit beside you and listen. I could help you.

Don't be afraid to say it, you need help and it's never too late to ask for it. You need someone to connect with where your heart is, and search for the missing pieces. Don't let the darkness consumes you. Open up your heart.


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## Fennel (Jan 11, 2017)

Oh dear... so many replies that I haven't responded to... and it's kinda embarrassing at this point. :blushed:

I really appreciate the help, advice, kind words, and empathy. Like wow. Some things I haven't heard before, and it's a surprise that there are many others who felt the same way at some point. So, THANK YOU.

A while back, I honestly thought I was the only one who feels like this. I was just about to give up on life in general. It's a very dark place, and I don't want to drag anyone into it really... so sorry if I sounded negative and self-defeating... 

I should come back to give more specific replies, yes? But for now this will have to do. :kitteh:


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## Peter (Feb 27, 2010)

poodiepie said:


> OP said she wants to share her hobbies, yet no one in her life seems to be willing to share with her. That could be a source of loneliness and creates problems. Not sure if that could be the 'problem' that it is rooted beneath, at least I think it could be.


My post was the result of a whole conversation and the last post she made. Not just a reply to the first post she made.


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## leftover crack (May 12, 2013)




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## Fennel (Jan 11, 2017)

Back to respond to the responses for a bit.



Deejaz said:


> Someone special, huh?  Yeah, exactly. Cuddly and perfect! I'm all for good role models. Maybe you can share them with me when you've found some epic people to look up to?


I'm sure you've seen them already, but @lizw47 and @Aizar are definitely people I look up to.



Mirkwood said:


> It indeed sucks when feeling there is nobody to share with. I am last born, with 9 or so years to my other brother, and none of them i really shared that many interests with. because they simply did not grow up with computers and such, music, etc.


We're the same; I'm the youngest and my brother is 10 years older. I'd grown very attached to him and it hurt me a lot when he got a girlfriend. But I went the other way; I got closer to my parents' generation than my own. I couldn't relate well with girls or even boys my age, and I always hang out with family. Extended family are mostly older than me too. Sometimes I have problems in school and they can't help me because the subject did not exist before or because of the technology.



Tanderson said:


> Haven't read this topic entirely, but I understand what you've been through. I knew someone that was exactly like you. She was a deep feeler and an very broken girl that wanted a deep and intense relationship. I know what it's like not to feel understood and just to seek for people to feel totally connected with.
> 
> On the contrary, I tend to escape from such a deep friendship. It's too overwhelming to me. I feel like I can't hold my own feelings and doubts and also my friend's one. My intimacy was too often violated by a terrifying and stressful environment, so I need time to myself to "reconnect" to my personality. Or maybe I fear this kinda intense friendships. Indeed, I have a hard time talking about myself and revealing my weaknesses, as well as my deepest passions and interests.
> 
> ...


Thank you. You are like a friend that I lost for exactly the same reasons. I wanted intimacy and she felt "violated" and wanted privacy. Honestly it makes me question if I'm a bad person or too intense in an unhealthy way. I'm the only one I know who goes to extreme lengths and depths. 

But then again most people don't get rejected or fail so many times. So they get what they want and it's a different battle entirely. And I'm still stuck in this stage. Everyone else is dating and marrying and getting promoted at work when I can't even find a friend or get my foot in the door. So I'm wondering if I ever had a chance, if I still do, and if I'm not too broken to take it.



Peter said:


> You need to figure out what it is that you need. You may think you want to be cared for but that's not the "fix" that you need. *You want those intense moments of connection,* and then specifically the feeling that comes with it in those moments. It's your brain's reward system that got addicted to those intense moments. It's what you live for without realizing it. It's an addiction, a chemical addiction and a mental addiction. A difficult combination to deal with. Medication can help with the chemical addiction, but the mental addiction,... that you have to solve yourself.


That's it. What's wrong with wanting intense moments of connection? 

Other people might see it as an addiction but anything can be addiction. A person can be addicted to drugs, food, work, psychology, philosophy, and even things like religion and spirituality. I don't judge people by their "drug of choice" and I generally try not to get in the way of them getting what they want. So why should I be ostracized for wanting something else? We all want something, we all have issues and do irrational things sometimes, so why am I the only one who has to improve or fix myself? That's not fair, I'd already bent myself all out of shape and reinvented myself just to conform with the demands of society, and they won't even give me the benefit of the doubt, much less what I really want or need.



poodiepie said:


> Oh my... I can relate to this. I feel like I'm always alone in my hobbies. I must be really wrong to like those hobbies... literature, art, music, social science and sometimes even liking science is offensive. I guess I am just too deep for everyone... Sigh.
> ( Today a coworker asked me what do I do when I am not at work. I said, "I play music." Well, apparently that is too deep and too intense as well. Should just answer watch tv I guess.) I happen to learn music too. I don't know what exactly do you study, but I'm all on chord progression and stuff. (I play the piano)
> 
> Well, again, this is exactly me. I always imagine myself being with a tight knit of people, (then .. we will do all sorts of things together ...) I'd always dreamed of having these relationships. But then, the reality , the people around me seems to be totally on a different spectrum...
> ...


Hey friend! I hope you're feeling much better now and even enjoying your work. That's the tough part, being introverted and different and wondering if that's all there is. Or if there's something wrong. With oneself, the environment, whatever.

Being intense... sorry if I'm going into a rant about this, but what is so wrong about being intense? People applaud intensity when the person succeeds - a scientist discovers something, an artist creates a masterpiece, a lover gets the "yes", but what if the person fails? All of a sudden, he or she is a freak. The failed scientist, artist, or lover is someone to be shunned. You don't know when to quit. Either it's too early or it's too late.

Okay, I failed in studies, career, relationships, everything that has to do with real life really... but I really really wish someone would see the intent, time, energy and effort that I put in that world and not just the fact that it spit me out. Because I did not live my life just wanting to make a mess of things and hurt people.

Ugh. Too many reallys in one sentence.



Trigo said:


> This feeling is very similar to me. If I were a stranger and accidentally hear you saying this, I would definitely sit beside you and listen. I could help you.
> 
> Don't be afraid to say it, you need help and it's never too late to ask for it. You need someone to connect with where your heart is, and search for the missing pieces. Don't let the darkness consumes you. Open up your heart.


Hey, that's very nice to hear! I hope you mean it. I could get really dark at times. But mostly it's just me being tired of being alone and not knowing what to do. There are many things in life that leave me clueless. It's probably the Asperger's Syndrome but my INFJ emotions make it a whole lot worse.


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