# When in doubt, do a questionnaire.



## iscem42 (Dec 2, 2011)

Flatlander said:


> I don't know if Ji is so much about structure at all. It seems more about content - precision of words and wording to match the Ji-dom's internal mapping. _Maybe_ useful if structure were necessary to consider in such a context.
> 
> Under the analogy, Je is much more about structure and organization.
> 
> IMO tone is contributed to by all factors.


Yeah, I can see where this is coming from, too. This may be the Ti-Ne combination speaking, but I see it in myself as definitely being content-focused in the sense that I feel an overwhelming need to convey all the contours and mobile points within an idea, which — even though it isn't necessarily concerned with structure in and of itself — still ends up creating a parenthetical, back-and-forth flow when all's said and done. The end result seems to be that my sentences are structured (even if it's in a more meandering way than most people's writing style) without much conscious effort at all, but that the connections between sentences are more of a learned skill for me, and not one that I really feel a strong internal compulsion for producing.

So it's hard for me to say without a strong Je function, but my hunch is that Je may be more about arriving at content through structure, while Ji would be more at arriving at structure through content. This is relatively speaking, though, since everybody focuses quite a bit on both.


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## missushoney (May 16, 2011)

Hehe. You seem like INTJ but I think there are other factors on your personality that might make you think differently. And I think the fact that you're a girl changes things as well. You'll act differently than an INTJ guy would just because of....well, I dunno...maybe girly hormones or something? I'm making this up as I go but I'm pretty sure that guys and girls of the same type will act differently. It's definitely true with astrology.

Ah, I thought I was INFP for about a year but I took a more detailed test when I started to feel like the INFP description wasn't quite like me. It's good that I found out I'm INFJ. It made it a lot easier to find out what the heck is wrong with me. -_- I sometimes feel like an INTJ but I'm sure I feel more strongly than I think. (and I lack the smarts and logic) The cynical nature I have lying right beneath the fluff must just be J on steroids then.


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

missushoney said:


> Hehe. You seem like INTJ but I think there are other factors on your personality that might make you think differently. And I think the fact that you're a girl changes things as well. You'll act differently than an INTJ guy would just because of....well, I dunno...maybe girly hormones or something? I'm making this up as I go but I'm pretty sure that guys and girls of the same type will act differently. It's definitely true with astrology.
> 
> Ah, I thought I was INFP for about a year but I took a more detailed test when I started to feel like the INFP description wasn't quite like me. It's good that I found out I'm INFJ. It made it a lot easier to find out what the heck is wrong with me. -_- I sometimes feel like an INTJ but I'm sure I feel more strongly than I think. (and I lack the smarts and logic) The cynical nature I have lying right beneath the fluff must just be J on steroids then.


Hmmmm it's that time so my hormones are raging today I suppose. But I don't think INTJ males and females are that much different as far as thought process goes. 
INFJs are actually quite intelligent so don't knock yourself.


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

iscem42 said:


> Yeah, I can see where this is coming from, too. This may be the Ti-Ne combination speaking, but I see it in myself as definitely being content-focused in the sense that I feel an overwhelming need to convey all the contours and mobile points within an idea, which — even though it isn't necessarily concerned with structure in and of itself — still ends up creating a parenthetical, back-and-forth flow when all's said and done. The end result seems to be that my sentences are structured (even if it's in a more meandering way than most people's writing style) without much conscious effort at all, but that the connections between sentences are more of a learned skill for me, and not one that I really feel a strong internal compulsion for producing.


Develop your Fe. 

I get what you're saying, though. You can't have writing without any structure. I'm more considering where primary emphasis is put, which I see you already hit on:



> So it's hard for me to say without a strong Je function, but my hunch is that Je may be more about arriving at content through structure, while Ji would be more at arriving at structure through content. This is relatively speaking, though, since everybody focuses quite a bit on both.


That is an interesting view. 

I'm inclined to say some focus more on one aspect than the other, and/or have a more complicated pattern. Also, keep in mind that we've left perception functions out of the picture, which is a big deal. I seem to have a bent toward _imprecis__e_ or _vague_ content as determined by my intuition, which I structure with purpose and then refine into more detailed content - usually I will get my idea on paper and then scrutinize and make revisions to it. You see this sometimes when I'm posting - I need to see my finished product and then revise, revise, revise, to increase its clarity.

If I'm not happy with something by the time the process is finished, I scrap it entirely. What function is that?


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

@Flatlander that might be Ni-Te at work, but where Te really gets to shine.


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

missushoney said:


> Hehe. You seem like INTJ but I think there are other factors on your personality that might make you think differently. And I think the fact that you're a girl changes things as well. You'll act differently than an INTJ guy would just because of....well, I dunno...maybe girly hormones or something? I'm making this up as I go but I'm pretty sure that guys and girls of the same type will act differently. It's definitely true with astrology.


Female vs. male sex/hormones are somewhat different. Hormones have certain influences on healthy brain function, so that females and males tend to function better in different cognitive areas - for instance, the oft-cited female ability to recall where everything in the house is, or the tendency for males to prevail in spatial reasoning.

My inclination is that these preferences might play a role in cognitive function expression, but keep in mind that in order for this to be the case, JCF should also be linked to brain function. That link is the key - a neurological understanding of cognitive functions could help us determine the answer here with more certainty. Dario Nardi started down that path with his research into how functions/types manifest in the brain, but a lot more clarification and depth is needed before we could compare these factors and be exact about how they are related.



> Ah, I thought I was INFP for about a year but I took a more detailed test when I started to feel like the INFP description wasn't quite like me. It's good that I found out I'm INFJ. It made it a lot easier to find out what the heck is wrong with me. -_- I sometimes feel like an INTJ but I'm sure I feel more strongly than I think. (and I lack the smarts and logic) The cynical nature I have lying right beneath the fluff must just be J on steroids then.


Jungian "Feeling" is a form of thought too, you know. As far as functions go, INFJ is quite a bit different from INFP, and INFJs and INTJs can be subtly close in thinking or manner because of their shared Ni-ness. Don't forget that INFJ includes Ti in its auxiliaries, too.

Also, smarts and logic aren't functions. Logic might be easier to rely on for someone who isn't a Thinking inferior, but anyone is capable of building their skill by taking a course in logic and encorporating it into their thought process. Smarts belong to all entities that survive on this planet.

The .gif in your signature is pretty funny.


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## petitpèlerin (Apr 23, 2012)

I'm a little late arriving to this thread, but I agree with the development of ideas here and it sounds like INTJ to me, too. Your "I'm curious" questionnaire clearly indicates INTJ over INFJ. 

#s 2 - 5 especially show strong NTJ over NFJ on critical issues.

#6 is completely Te and very much INTJ.

#8 sounds Ni to me.

#11 rings Fi.

#12 indicates NT over NF. #19, too.

You sound like a well-rounded INTJ.


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

Mmmmm yeah. I'm sure I've totally drowned in the river of denial at this point. My typing seems pretty accurate for the most part. (doesn't mean I won't triple check every once in a while :tongue.


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

@LeaT Here's the test results I promised. Look at this gooey stuff. I love the top three though. 


*1. Wisdom*
(34 votes)
*2. Reason*
(32 votes)
*3. Humor*
(30 votes)
*4. Intuition*
(28 votes)
*5. Intelligence*
(27 votes)
*6. Integrity*
(26 votes)
*7. Freedom*
(25 votes)
*8. Justice*
(24 votes)
*9. Independence*
(24 votes)
*10. Introversion*
(22 votes)
*11. Knowledge*
(21 votes)
*12. Intimacy*
(19 votes)
*13. Depth*
(19 votes)
*14. Warmth*
(18 votes)
*15. Accuracy*
(18 votes)
*16. Efficiency*
(18 votes)
*17. Philanthropy*
(18 votes)
*18. Peace*
(17 votes)
*19. Determination*
(15 votes)
*20. Imagination*
(14 votes)
*21. Structure*
(14 votes)
*22. Humility*
(14 votes)
*23. Ambition*
(13 votes)
*24. Education*
(12 votes)
*25. Inquisitiveness*
(11 votes)
*26. Precision*
(11 votes)
*27. Open-mindedness*
(11 votes)
*28. Challenge*
(10 votes)
*29. Mysteriousness*
(10 votes)
*30. Wittiness*
(10 votes)
*31. Faith*
(8 votes)
*32. Simplicity*
(8 votes)
*33. Maturity*
(6 votes)
*34. Pragmatism*
(5 votes)
*35. Intrepidness*
(3 votes)


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## MNiS (Jan 30, 2010)

ISFP. :happy:


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

MNiS said:


> ISFP. :happy:


I knew you would say that. I'm going through the forum now. I can relate to very little of it actually. But I'm considering it.


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

It all makes a lot more sense now. And all it took was a point in another direction. I looked into a totally different type and I realized that it wasn't like me at all. I don't think that way at all. I don't understand people who are wired that way at all. But it's really interesting to see how rearranging the order and orientations of the functions in a stack can produce something totally different. To get a better understanding of other types I will try to branch out into all the other forums a little more. 

Thanks you guys.


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## missushoney (May 16, 2011)

Flatlander said:


> Female vs. male sex/hormones are somewhat different. Hormones have certain influences on healthy brain function, so that females and males tend to function better in different cognitive areas - for instance, the oft-cited female ability to recall where everything in the house is, or the tendency for males to prevail in spatial reasoning.
> 
> My inclination is that these preferences might play a role in cognitive function expression, but keep in mind that in order for this to be the case, JCF should also be linked to brain function. That link is the key - a neurological understanding of cognitive functions could help us determine the answer here with more certainty. Dario Nardi started down that path with his research into how functions/types manifest in the brain, but a lot more clarification and depth is needed before we could compare these factors and be exact about how they are related.
> 
> ...


Ah, that makes a lot of sense. You're very good at explaining things, thank you. And you're very fair, you have the makings of a good teacher. Why is your personality unknown? T_T I must know the type of this very understanding person before me. haha 

I thought the .gif matched me pretty well, thanks. :laughing:


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

missushoney said:


> Ah, that makes a lot of sense. You're very good at explaining things, thank you. And you're very fair, you have the makings of a good teacher. Why is your personality unknown? T_T I must know the type of this very understanding person before me. haha
> 
> I thought the .gif matched me pretty well, thanks. :laughing:


I've had a lot of practice trying to unravel my own ideas to explain to people; explanation over a text-based medium eventually becomes second nature, though I'm not sure everyone's reaction would be as positive as yours. In speech, it sometimes takes me longer to do this than people are willing to wait; I have to prepare myself well to overcome that issue when I'm teaching a class. 

It's unknown because while Ni dom/Se inferior is clear enough, and the function ordering Ni/Je+Ji/Se works for me, I'm not entirely certain of what the auxiliaries are. I've had feedback from people pointing toward INFJ and INTJ, which I was debating between to myself awhile back. Under MBTI I type as an INTP, and someone I know considered INTP for me - though this doesn't seem to be the case, the presence of Ti is possible, which would leave INFJ if true.

Fe is the question mark in my mind. 

In the end, it's also that whatever my cognitive stack, it doesn't really matter. I live my life naturally to myself and this hasn't failed me.


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

Flatlander said:


> I've had a lot of practice trying to unravel my own ideas to explain to people; explanation over a text-based medium eventually becomes second nature, though I'm not sure everyone's reaction would be as positive as yours. In speech, it sometimes takes me longer to do this than people are willing to wait; I have to prepare myself well to overcome that issue when I'm teaching a class.
> 
> It's unknown because while Ni dom/Se inferior is clear enough, and the function ordering Ni/Je+Ji/Se works for me, I'm not entirely certain of what the auxiliaries are. I've had feedback from people pointing toward INFJ and INTJ, which I was debating between to myself awhile back. Under MBTI I type as an INTP, and someone I know considered INTP for me - though this doesn't seem to be the case, the presence of Ti is possible, which would leave INFJ if true.
> 
> ...


Exactly. INTJ, ESTP, or whatever type I could be doesn't matter. Like I always say, human being first, everything else second. It's just interesting to see how Jung's and Myers-Briggs' theories play out, which is why I started doing this in the first place.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

FacelessBeauty said:


> Exactly. INTJ, ESTP, or whatever type I could be doesn't matter. Like I always say, human being first, everything else second. It's just interesting to see how Jung's and Myers-Briggs' theories play out, which is why I started doing this in the first place.


Based on the value test I definitely think you're having a strong T in you XD I'm having more F fluff than you with empathy and passion being two values I find to be important.

I've known an ISFP when I was young. You're nothing like her, that's for sure. Plus, your avatar isn't particularly ISFP-ish either. It currently screams N and probably Ni more so than Ne. 

Did you ever consider your enneagram by the way? I just recently figured I'm 5w4 instead of 5w6 myself. That's probably why I feel and might appear as a little INFP-ish, considering the strong correlation between E4 and INFP.


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

LeaT said:


> Based on the value test I definitely think you're having a strong T in you XD I'm having more F fluff than you with empathy and passion being two values I find to be important.
> 
> I've known an ISFP when I was young. You're nothing like her, that's for sure. Plus, your avatar isn't particularly ISFP-ish either. It currently screams N and probably Ni more so than Ne.
> 
> Did you ever consider your enneagram by the way? I just recently figured I'm 5w4 instead of 5w6 myself. That's probably why I feel and might appear as a little INFP-ish, considering the strong correlation between E4 and INFP.



It might be the 9 in my tritype somewhere. But overall I align more with 5w6 traits than anything else.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

FacelessBeauty said:


> It might be the 9 in my tritype somewhere. But overall I align more with 5w6 traits than anything else.


Yes. I think 9 can give off a false sensor-esque feeling at times. I'm still trying to figure out my tritype.


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

LeaT said:


> Yes. I think 9 can give off a false sensor-esque feeling at times. I'm still trying to figure out my tritype.


It also gives off the false Fe reads too. Go read some of the 27 tritype archetype posts. They're really interesting. :O


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

FacelessBeauty said:


> It also gives off the false Fe reads too. Go read some of the 27 tritype archetype posts. They're really interesting. :O


Hm, I didn't know that. I have 9 probably as gut (?) I think it is, either 9w8 or 9w1, I am not sure which one, but I already have Fe as my inferior so. 

I think being 5w4 with almost equally strong 4 and 5 is really damn confusing... No wonder I'm so mushy for an INTP. Then add the 9 and it's a disaster recipe D: And I finally figured out that I must be sp/sx as instinctual stacking as well, and sx really triggers 4. I thought it was odd that some of my poetry was so sx if I was sp/so that I scored the first time around.


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