# Fe in INTPs vs. Fe in ISTPs



## chimeric (Oct 15, 2011)

Anecdotally, I've noticed significant differences in how Fe manifests itself in these two types. I would be interested in hearing others' thoughts on this.


INTPs seem -- at least outwardly -- more sentimental, passionate, and idealistic. Like these sudden Fe flare-ups. I haven't noticed that in ISTPs (at least certainly not to the same extent).

ISTP Fe seems more subdued/subtle and expressed through action. ISTPs also seem to have less Fe-related worry.


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## zynthaxx (Aug 12, 2009)

My experience is that INTPs are more likely to be stuck in their heads. They theorize more about problems - including touchy/feely ones - than what ISTPs do. Even when we're bad, our worries tend to result in action of some kind, sooner or later. 
This, I think, is the background for INTPs tendency to be more mushy or even pathetic when in a strong grip by Fe: they often have the notion that if they can't think their way out of a problem, it's not worth solving (but might be worth a bit of self-pity, if they're really stuck in their heads), while the entire basis for ISTP problem solving is action, evaluation and course correction.


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## LiquidLight (Oct 14, 2011)

Egh I think you are splitting hairs here. Inferior Fe is basically inferior Fe. This would sort of be like saying ESTPs and ESFPs have different Ni. Or that ENFPs and ENTPs have different Ne. The function is the function. Whether or not a person leans more toward sentimentality or idealism or less worry or whatever isn't really related directly to the function (or really any function) in that direct of a way. It's likely there would be some sort of psychological complex going on in a given individual that might manifest these things, but to say its endemic to how they think I think goes too far. There's a reason why Quenk and others who have written about the inferior function did not break it out into 16 different types as it would be really unnecessary.


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## Muser (Jul 17, 2011)

LiquidLight said:


> Egh I think you are splitting hairs here. Inferior Fe is basically inferior Fe. This would sort of be like saying ESTPs and ESFPs have different Ni. Or that ENFPs and ENTPs have different Ne. The function is the function. Whether or not a person leans more toward sentimentality or idealism or less worry or whatever isn't really related directly to the function (or really any function) in that direct of a way. It's likely there would be some sort of psychological complex going on in a given individual that might manifest these things, but to say its endemic to how they think I think goes too far. There's a reason why Quenk and others who have written about the inferior function did not break it out into 16 different types as it would be really unnecessary.


I don't think the OP is claiming that there are various types of Inferior Fe. She's talking about how (if I comprehend correctly) the other functions (INTP's Ti, Ne and Si and ISTP's Ti Se Ni) influence the manifestation of the inferior.


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## LiquidLight (Oct 14, 2011)

Muser said:


> I don't think the OP is claiming that there are various types of Inferior Fe. She's talking about how (if I comprehend correctly) the other functions (INTP's Ti, Ne and Si and ISTP's Ti Se Ni) influence the manifestation of the inferior.


 But they wouldn't influence the inferior that's the point. The inferior is the least conscious function, meaning it sort of goes its own way from the other three functions. Lenore Thomson likens it to a crewmember that mutinies and gets thrown off the ship. One of the reasons the inferior function is such a troublemaking (or breakthrough) function is because of its irrelatedness to the other three. 

In some ways the inferior function carries the expression of the unconscious personality, the side of a person the person is not really aware of and is likely to be projective of. It is not the tag-along to the other three functions.


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## Ellis Bell (Mar 16, 2012)

Well yes, inferior Fe on its own is the same for all types. But since cognitive functions don't work in a vacuum and are influenced by other functions, they can appear differently in various types, eg in ISTPs, mixed with Ni it could lead to paranoia about other people's motives (in an extreme case; I don't know, that was the best I could come up with off the top of my head). ISTPs tend also to be more utilitarian and to-the-point in their connections with other people; whereas, because INTP has Ne influencing them, they can ramble on at length about a subject if their Fe doesn't step in to help them realize that the person they're talking to isn't interested in what they're saying. I'm not sure if I'm explaining myself clearly, though.


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## Sixty Nein (Feb 13, 2011)

Don't worry Katshu. You hit the mark right in the head.

At any case, I believe this just boils down to the individual, and not just a strictly function basis.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

kasthu said:


> Well yes, inferior Fe on its own is the same for all types. But since cognitive functions don't work in a vacuum and are influenced by other functions, they can appear differently in various types, eg in ISTPs, mixed with Ni it could lead to paranoia about other people's motives (in an extreme case; I don't know, that was the best I could come up with off the top of my head). ISTPs tend also to be more utilitarian and to-the-point in their connections with other people; whereas, because INTP has Ne influencing them, they can ramble on at length about a subject if their Fe doesn't step in to help them realize that the person they're talking to isn't interested in what they're saying. I'm not sure if I'm explaining myself clearly, though.


I think inferior Fe + intuition can make you paranoid in general about the intents and actions of others but so can enneagram 6. I know I can be and I'm most definitely not an ISTP. I think LiquidLight is right here. I can see the other side of the argument but I don't think it holds much merit because I can see so many things unrelated to Jungian functions that could affect the inferior, e.g. enneagram motivations. Some ISTPs I've met who are enneagram 8 fixers tend to explode in rage at other people and lecture them why they are bad when things don't go their way. The intention is Fe-motivated but it takes on an underdeveloped enneagram 8-anger form. But then when I think back, I've seen INTPs with a strong 8 fix do exactly the same thing and behave in the same manner so again, enneagram and other behavioral explanations play a larger role than the form of the inferior does.

And in a way I have begun to question the relation between dominant-inferior as well.


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## Kynx (Feb 6, 2012)

I think Jung said that the inferior and the tertiary functions are all mixed together in the unconscious. That in theory, would mean that there would be slight differences in the inferior eruptions between types with a different tert function. I believe when my Te manifests, I become more aware of my surroundings although, in a negative way. 
I would expect INTPs to experience their Sensing function in a similar fashion. 
I've noticed ISTPs inferior eruptions as them feeling that they're unimportant to others. They seem to make assumptions about why others don't make the effort to include or consider them (which seem to be what you'd expect from a negative tert N), they _know_ what others were thinking or doing even if they weren't there. They also expect a huge effort made by the other person to include them. Which is quite a shock when you're used to ISTPs being so independent and secure about themselves. Does that sound familiar to anyone else?


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## LiquidLight (Oct 14, 2011)

The tertiary would work as something of a sidekick to the inferior, in much the same way the aux works as a sidekick to the dominant. But the third function can also be assimilated and differentiated, where the inferior likely always remains (in most people) undifferentiated. Remember the reason the inferior can topple the entire boat, in Von Franz's terms, is because it carries with it the path to the shadow and the unconscious. That would include everything you have consciously rejected and/or repressed. That's just too much for someone's ego to be able to hold back if it were to ever erupt. Even under normal circumstances people tend to project their inferior onto others rather than 'own' it themselves. In some ways you could maybe conceptualize the inferior as something of an alter-ego or a second personality in a way (that's not an entirely correct characterization but it helps get the point across that the inferior is not just function number 4 in practice.)

Remember the shadow or the inferior function isn't always bad or wrong or evil. It just may seem that way when we process it through our dominant function because it represents a perspective that is entirely foreign from how we normally do business and likely one that we over time have learned to reject.


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## zynthaxx (Aug 12, 2009)

Neverontime said:


> I think Jung said that the inferior and the tertiary functions are all mixed together in the unconscious. That in theory, would mean that there would be slight differences in the inferior eruptions between types with a different tert function. I believe when my Te manifests, I become more aware of my surroundings although, in a negative way.
> I would expect INTPs to experience their Sensing function in a similar fashion.
> I've noticed ISTPs inferior eruptions as them feeling that they're unimportant to others. They seem to make assumptions about why others don't make the effort to include or consider them (which seem to be what you'd expect from a negative tert N), they _know_ what others were thinking or doing even if they weren't there. They also expect a huge effort made by the other person to include them. Which is quite a shock when you're used to ISTPs being so independent and secure about themselves. Does that sound familiar to anyone else?


Pretty much right on. I become more of a tinfoil hat kinda guy than filled with a false sense of entitlement as per your description, but the motive for it is pretty well-described.
INTPs in the same situation are likely to remember every other time in their lives when something similar was attempted by them and everything went wrong - that would be a negative aspect of Si feeding the Fe, I guess.


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## Kynx (Feb 6, 2012)

zynthaxx said:


> Pretty much right on. I become more of a tinfoil hat kinda guy than filled with a false sense of entitlement as per your description, but the motive for it is pretty well-described.


I should have worded that better, not so much that they expected a huge effort, more so like they viewed a huge effort as being standard and assumed that level of effort had been put into involving others. 



> INTPs in the same situation are likely to remember every other time in their lives when something similar was attempted by them and everything went wrong - that would be a negative aspect of Si feeding the Fe, I guess.


Lol, yes I think that would be accurate for tert Si, every time things have gone wrong, it's never going to improve or nothing will change for the better, etc. For me it revolves around goals that I haven't achieved, even though in actual fact, they aren't that important to me.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

zynthaxx said:


> INTPs in the same situation are likely to remember every other time in their lives when something similar was attempted by them and everything went wrong - that would be a negative aspect of Si feeding the Fe, I guess.


I can second this although I wonder again how much enneagram plays a role in general.


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## Breath (Nov 21, 2012)

(English is not my native language. I can misunderstand what you wrote, struggle to explain my ideas and make mistakes. Hope you'll understand.)

I'm not sure how much Fe in INTP and in ISTP could be different - or, more precisely, be expressed in different ways. It think that when Fe manifests itself, Se makes ISTPs more action-oriented, less inclined to feel so... so trapped in their own thoughts, in their own mind; while INTPs undergo the influence of their Si - and zynthaxx and Neverontime explained this better than how I can. But cognitive functions are the approach, while the behavior is more related to the enneagram, if I got it; so maybe Fe can manifest itself in the same way, in people with the same enneagram type, but cause different thoughts. I don't know how to explain better my idea :/


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