# What "Gana" ***Vedic Astrology*** are you?



## Leondar (Mar 13, 2017)

Leondar said:


> It's almost like the ASURAS are like "Meh, we know!" *shrug*


I BET YOU READ THIS AND WENT HA! CHALLENGING ME TO WRITE EH? HA!

HA! (NOPE, I JUST KNOW YOU'RE READING THIS GOING. WAIT, SHOULD I? HMMM NAH... MAYBE...) (xD)


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## Leondar (Mar 13, 2017)

Paradigm said:


> Have to admit that I'm not at all partial to "light" in most forms :tongue: Only exception might be morally-correct things, which is often referred to, like, "The Light Side."


Oh the "light" is about much more!

Read the bit on Pushya

Morality is about much more (relative) (like Einstein) (or your eye on a stein) (Or I on a stein) (xD)


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## Leondar (Mar 13, 2017)

@Paradigm

*Repeating Patterns ~*

*Punarvasu*

Name: Punarvasu

Meaning: Reignition

Symbol: An arrow returned to the quiver

Deity: Aditi – the universal mother

Main Stars: Heads of the twins: Castor and Pollux

Punar means again. Vasu means bright. So the word Punarvasu can mean, “Becoming bright again” (Reignition). Punarvasu is about things happening again; things happening within other things, within themselves; in cycles; in repetition.

A fractal – an image formed by a pattern repeating itself within itself – is an excellent symbol for Punarvasu. The classical symbol is an arrow put back into a quiver after it has been shot – thus making it ready to be shot again and repeat the pattern.

*Mother of her own Father*

Here is an example of fractal patterns within patterns: The goddess of Punarvasu is Aditi – who is the mother of her own father. Aditi is the fabric of space itself, so she is the raw material Brahmā draws upon for creation. Thus, she is the real “mother” of Brahmā’s children, including her own father Dakṣa. She helped create Dakṣa, and later she took shape in the world by being born as his daughter. The son comes from the mother, and then the mother comes from the son.

Thus Ṛg Veda (10.72.4) says: “Aditi comes from Dakṣa, but Dakṣa comes from Aditi.”

*Boundless Unity*

The name Aditi literally means boundless. She is the fabric of space itself, the boundless matrix within which everything else exists. Because space is the womb within which all live develops, she is the “universal mother.” Especially the “vasu” – the luminous gods – are all her children.

To be boundless means to have no boundaries, to be whole, unbroken and undivided. The goddess of non-division is the mother of the gods. Her sister’s name is Diti, which means divided. This goddess of division is the mother of the anti-gods. The idea emerges that unity is a godly principle, while division is ungodly. Things that unite have godly effects, while things that divide have ungodly effects.

_Aditi’s Punarvasu empowers humanity to work cooperatively, become unified; to come together and form a larger pattern within larger patterns.
_

Aditi is not only the mother of the gods, but she is also the mother of the original Godhead when He appears tangibly within this universe as an avatār (“ incarnation”). This is another example of fractal patterns, Aditi comes from Godhead, but Godhead comes from Aditi.

*Mother of God*

The concept of being the mother of a being that has no origin and is the origin of everything is another perfect example of fractal patterns-within-patterns.

Śrīmad Bhāgavatam (8.16-18) describes how Aditi became the mother of existence itself, Viṣṇu:

A powerful demon named Bali conquered all the worlds and the gods lost all power. Aditi requested her husband Kaśyapa to give her a son who could save them. Kaśyapa told her how to perform a ritual for this purpose. But since Aditi knew that only Godhead could save the gods from this situation, her performance of this ritual attracted God to become her child.

When the ritual was complete, Godhead appeared and assured her, “I will become your son, but this situation cannot be remedied by force. I will come up with a different strategy.”

Aditi then conceived a child with Kaśyapa, who was born mysteriously as the Godhead Viṣṇu – blackish with glittering yellow clothes, four armed and gloriously beautiful. Before their very eyes, He transformed into a very small boy; a student-mendicant, named Vāmana.

Viṣṇu thus became the younger brother of Aditi’s first child, Indra. The young boy soon set off to where Bali was performing an elaborate ritual to celebrate his victory over the gods. When he entered the arena, everyone was struck with his beauty and effulgence and greeted him with warm respects. Bali, especially, was charmed by the endearing beauty of Vāmana.

“It is my great fortune that such a wondrous spiritualist has come to my palace! The opportunity to serve you will free me from all the sins of my selfish life. You must have come here to ask something from me, please ask it! I will happily give you any wealth or pleasure you desire!” Vāmana was very pleased with Bali’s humble and spiritually informed attitude. He said to Bali, “You are wonderful

(The story of Bali is interesting because he was a Demon who was the most courteous, humble, and knowledged of the demons, the "good" "awwww" (ah "great!", "moral") demon, almost a "god" among the demons but NOOOO VADER xD will share a bit from another story)

because you have good teachers and because your grandfather is the great Prahlād. You are as great and dear to me as your grandfather! But I do not need any wealth or pleasures. It is not good for a spiritualist to accept such things. I just want whatever land I can claim for myself in three paces.”

Bali replied, “You are wise beyond your years, but still inexperienced. You should take what you can get when it is offered! I own even the heavens. I can give you anything. Someone who asks a favor from me should never have to ask another person for a favor again! So why should you only take three paces of land? It would defame me to give such a petty gift!”

Vāmana replied, “If a person can’t be satisfied with three steps of land, he won’t be satisfied with the three worlds. Self-control makes one happy. Feeding uncontrolled desire causes misery.”

Smiling, Bali said, “Alright, then. You are very wise. I shall happily give you what you request.” With that he took up his waterpot to wash his palm in a gesture of solemn promise, but no water would flow from it. When Bali used a straw to unblock the nozzle, Śukra (the deity of Venus and Bali’s guru) suddenly appeared, holding his eye in pain. He had taken a tiny form and purposely clogged the pot, and the straw had poked out his eye.

Śukra said, “This little boy is Viṣṇu! He has been born to Aditi to protect her children, the gods. You’ve gone and promised to give him land!? He will take everything from you and give it to your enemy, Indra! You fool! You will be homeless!!! He will take the entire universe in just two steps and make you unable to fulfill your promise, and thus send you to hell! Charity is good, up to a point! Besides, you did not say “Om” when making this promise to give him land, so it is not binding!”

Bali thought about this deeply for a few moments. Then he said, “Mother Earth said, ‘I can bear any burden, but I cannot bear a liar.’ Truthfulness is the soul of morality, without which there can be no good fortune. I don’t mind losing my riches, so long as I do not lose my morality.” Śukra was infuriated. “You think you know morality better than I do!? So be it, then! Become penniless!!!” Śukra then disappeared.

Bali did not mind this in the least. He very happily worshipped the young spiritualist with all respect and offered him to take the land he desired.

Vāmana then began to grow to huge proportions, revealing that he was all-pervading Viṣṇu. Bali could see the entire universe within his “body.” Here is another instance of fractal patterns-within-patterns: Vāmana was standing within the universe, yet the entire universe existed within Vāmana.

With one step the huge Viṣṇu covered all of normal earthly space. With the second he reached the highest extent of the heavens.

The anti-gods rushed forward to kill Viṣṇu, but Viṣṇu’s associates appeared and drove them back effortlessly into subterranean regions. Viṣṇu’s eagle, Garuda, then arrested Bali and tied him in ropes. Vāmana said to Bali, “You promised me three steps of land, but I have taken everything you possess and more, in just two steps. Since you cannot fulfill your boastful promise, you must enter the hells.”

Bali replied, “That is no problem. Your punishment is always just. We anti-gods always want power and prestige. When you punish us it is kind because it opens our eyes to a more blissful reality that we are not all-powerful, we are but fragments of your energy and should endeavor only to serve your desires! Everything you have taken from me is a blessing. What is the use of material prosperity? It only puts one into deeper spiritual ignorance! But I do not wish to be untruthful. I have offered you three steps of property. I owned the three worlds, which you took in just two steps. Surely the owner of land is even more valuable than the land itself, so I must be worth at least two steps. Please place your third step on my head and claim me as your servant. This will fulfill my promise.”

Thrilled by the unwavering devotion of this great soul amidst demons, Viṣṇu declared, “Because your devotion for me is so pure that you were willing to happily surrender everything, I will give you something greater than even the gods possess! In the future you will become the king of the Gods. Until then you can live on a special planet called Sutala, free from the influence of time and decay. No one will be able to conquer you. I will protect you always and will personally stay there with you as your gatekeeper.”

*Budha Curses Aditi*

Mahābhārata (Śānti. 34.96-98): Budha (the god of Mercury) came to Aditi’s home hungry. She was at the end of feeding her children, so she asked him to wait a moment. Budha became upset over this transgression of etiquette and cursed her, “You so love your children!? Then become Vivasvān’s mother a second time!” Vivasvān was reborn to Aditi as Aṇḍa and his fiery heat caused her great pain during pregnancy. This serves as another illustration of repetition, the main theme of Punarvasu.

*Rebirths of Aditi*

Aditi herself has many rebirths, just as a fractal appears many times within itself.

All of them center on being the mother facilitating the birth of Godhead. Mahābhārata (Śānti. 43.6) says that Viṣṇu is born seven times to Aditi. This repetition is interesting to the study of Punarvasu.

Śrīmad Bhāgavatam (10.3) says that Aditi was once Pṛśṇi, the wife of a different son of Brahmā, named Sutapas. She performed great austerities in devotion to Viṣṇu for 12,000 years. When Viṣṇu appeared to grant her wishes, she wished that he would become her son, which he did.

Kṛṣṇa told this story to his mother, to let her know that she and he are always mother and son, repeatedly. Thus Kṛṣṇa’s mother, Devakī is yet another incarnation of Aditi.

The story behind Aditi becoming Devakī is also fascinating. It is told in Devī Bhāgavata (4): Aditi was the first wife of Kaśyapa, and she gave birth to the gods, headed by Indra. Her sister, Diti, the second wife, was jealous and asked Kaśyapa for children who would be equals to the gods. Thus eventually she gave birth to the anti-gods (“ demons”). But Aditi became fearful and sent her child to destroy the first child in her sister’s womb. Diti then cursed Aditi: “Your child will repeatedly lose his kingdom to my children! And you will lose your children!”

The first part of the curse is constantly being fulfilled as Diti’s children, the anti-gods, attempt to conquer the gods, and often succeed. The second part of the curse was fulfilled when Aditi became Devakī, who had to suffer the loss of many children at the hands of her atrocious brother Kaṁsa.

(The last one (I think) was Krishna (Krsna) who killed Kamsa (the demon, I think, and later became GodHead *I think* featured in the Bhagvad Gita, the SPEAKER of the Bhagvad Gita)


_ - DiCara, Vic; Kishor, Vraja. 27 Stars, 27 Gods: The Astrological Mythology of Ancient India (p. 41-47). 108 Books. Kindle Edition.
_
Phew! xD


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## Leondar (Mar 13, 2017)

@Paradigm

Also INTJ!?
xO

WHAT is The meaning of this? xO xD

And an INFJ xO
@Farfadou57

xD


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## Leondar (Mar 13, 2017)

Now for Svati! xD
@Farfadou57

Love that name!

My "suitor" almost "betrothed" was (is) named that xD

Though she's a (an) Aslesha! xD

(I think)

Though if she is a "Svati", I should maybe consider marrying her xD #IDK

xD

Edit

No, she's mosdef not (Svati)! xD


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## RexMaximus (Jun 29, 2016)

I think astrology is total bs, but I’m sorta curious. My result was Uttaraphalguni


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## Leondar (Mar 13, 2017)

@Farfadou57

Fingers crossed this is not that long xD

(Reading, imagining *as with the process* and writing is a PAIN lol xD)

*Individuality ~*

*Svāti*

Name: Svāti

Meaning: Self-actuation

Symbol: A new bud bending in the wind

Deity: Vāyu - god of air

Main Star: Arcturus

The main component of the word svāti is sva, which means one’s own. The meaning of the name Svāti, therefore, has to do with becoming an individual.

Svāti’s symbol is a new flower bud bending against the strong wind. This is a symbol of “going against the grain” and making the effort to stand out on our own as an individual.

The deity of Svāti is Vāyu, god of the wind that blows upon the new bud, making it strong. We will discover that Vāyu is the god of Prāṇa, which creates individuality in material beings. “Individuality” is the key word for Svāti.

*Power*

Since Vāyu is the god of the mighty wind, he is extremely powerful. He once held a contest of strength with the Nāga (Snake/Dragon mostly former, al-most-ways-ly) king, Vāsuki. Vāyu couldn’t remove Vāsuki from his grip on a mountain, but neither could Vāsuki escape from Vāyu’s grip. Viṣṇu finally called a halt to the exhausting stalemate. When Vāsuki unwound from the mountain Vāyu ripped the peak from its roots and threw it far to the south. It landed in the ocean and became the isle of Lanka.

Vāyu is also the father of the mighty warriors Hanuman (Ramayan, Monkey "King" like Jesus King of the Jews, different, served lord Rama, DEVOTION) and Bhīma (Mahabarata, STRONGEST AND MIGHTIEST and dumbest xP of the Pandavas xD).

*The Breath of Life*

Though Vāyu is powerful, he is no brute of hurricanes and storms. He is not the god of wind so much as the god of air and of breath. Ṛg Veda (10.9) says that Vāyu is the breath of Godhead.

In modern terms, Vāyu is the god of oxygen. Ṛg Veda (1.7.112) says that Vāyu is the father of Agñi. This is because fire (Agñi) cannot burn without oxygen (Vāyu).

Bṛhadaranyaka Upanishad illustrates that nothing is more essential to life than Vāyu / oxygen:

The gods of the human body held a contest to see who among them was the most important. Selecting a man to serve as the arena for their contest, one by one the different deities left that man’s body. When the god of vision left, the man became blind and morose. Similarly when other deities abandoned him the man lost important functions. But when Vāyu stood up to leave the man, every deity of the body became uprooted and forced to leave, too. Vāyu sat back down and everyone returned to normal. Everyone admitted that nothing is more important to an individual’s existence than Vāyu: god of breath.

Our existence as an individual rests upon Vāyu’s power: “life air” (prāṇa or, perhaps, oxygen in modern terms). Here are several quotes illustrating this.

Katha Upanishad (1.3.1) says:

_“The individual soul floats on the life-air in the core of the individual.”_

Śrīmad Bhāgavatam (4.29.71) says:

_“Without life-air we lose our sense of ‘I.’ This temporarily happens in deep sleep, unconsciousness, or in terrible shock such as extremely high fever and during death.”_

Mundaka Upanishad 3.1.9 says:

_“The wise perceive the individual soul floating on five life-airs. The true individual does not manifest until it is purified of contact with those airs.”_

Indian thought holds the life-air to be a bridge element between matter and spirit. It is a type of rope which ties the conscious spirit to an individual body and identity, creating an ego divorced and separated from the divine whole.

The intimate relationship between breath and ego is why a significant portion of classical yoga is devoted to breathing techniques. It also supports the concept that natal birth chart should be created for the moment of a child’s first breath. It is the moment of the child’s first contact with Vāyu that is the foundation of their individuality and individual destiny.

The quote from Mundaka Upanishad suggests that there is another individuality which is “purified.” When the soul exists without the life-air it experiences an identity that is not separated from the divine whole.

Yet another book, the Chandogya Upanishad, states that spiritual realization is impossible until one conceives of the individualizing life-airs in a spiritual manner, integrated with the divine whole:

“One cannot know Brahman without knowing Vāyu as ‘om.’”

_Svāti is “ego.” It is the ability to establish a definition of “I.” Without Svāti we are unable to clearly individualize ourselves. The ultimate potential of Svāti is self-realization: it empowers humans to develop an ego that is integrated into the divine whole._

*Vāyu and the Silk-Cotton Tree*

Mahābhārata (Śānti. 154-156) tells a story involving Vāyu and reminiscent of Svāti’s symbol, illustrating the pride of false-ego and inflated individuality: There was once a silk-cotton tree so huge that its branches would not move in any storm, nor would even a single leaf or flower fall. A great sage, Nārada (the "messenger" aka the one who lights the fire between the gods, and demons), took shelter of this tree during a storm and, amazed, praised the tree’s power. The tree became very proud and came to consider itself more powerful than Vāyu.

Hearing of this, Vāyu came and said, “You fool! If you are strong, fight me here and now!” Vāyu blew off all the tree’s fruits, flowers and leaves. He then explained to the humiliated tree, “Long ago, Brahmā rested in your shade. Out of deference to the sacred place I have always stilled my winds near you. It is not your power that made you great, it was my grace!”

_Svāti empowers the self to be an individual, but the risk of individualism is egoism. So we must always remember that the powers and qualities that make us a unique individual are granted to us by the powers of the universe. We should not proudly think of ourselves as completely individual and disconnected from the divine whole._ (I DID THIS YESTERDAY xD)

_ - DiCara, Vic; Kishor, Vraja. 27 Stars, 27 Gods: The Astrological Mythology of Ancient India (p. 87-91). 108 Books. Kindle Edition. _

As long, but interesting!

xD

Like Svati

xD

Who's an Aslesha

x(


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## Leondar (Mar 13, 2017)

RexMaximus said:


> I think astrology is total bs, but I’m sorta curious. My result was Uttaraphalguni


ASURA ALERT!

Maybe not

Lemme check...


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## Leondar (Mar 13, 2017)

RexMaximus said:


> My result was Uttaraphalguni


Please be...

AH MANUSHYA!

THE FIRST HUMAN ARRIVES!!

xD

Now, my friend, I will share your result, and you will see why my friend, I call you so, in prose, but it may (if I remember right) be appropriate xD

(Fetching! xD)


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## Leondar (Mar 13, 2017)

@RexMaximus

Also brah

Moon's Nakshatra, right?


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## RexMaximus (Jun 29, 2016)

Leondar said:


> @RexMaximus
> 
> Also brah
> 
> Moon's Nakshatra, right?


Yeah that was what it was


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## Leondar (Mar 13, 2017)

*Vows of Friendship ~*

*Uttara Phālgunī*

Name: Uttara Phālgunī

Meaning: Reddish Lady (II)

Symbol: Bed

Deity: Aryamā - god of vows and weddings

Main Star: Denebola

Uttara Phālgunī is the second in the Phālgunī pair of stars. Most of what we discussed about Pūrva Phālgunī applies to Uttara Phālgunī as well. The difference is that while the previous Phālgunī tends towards romance, Uttara Phālgunī towards friendship and marriage.

_Uttara Phālgunī is the star of marriage and commitments._

The deity of Uttara Phālgunī is Aryamā, the brother of Pūrva Phālgunī’s deity, Bhaga. As you may recall from the chapter on Maghā, In Bhagavad Gītā (10.29), Śrī Kṛṣṇa suggests that Aryamā is the foremost Pitṛ: pitṝṇām aryamā cāsmi, “Among the Pitṛs I am Aryamā.”

This reveals that Aryamā dwells with and functions like the Pitṛ, well-wishing ancestors who protect us in difficult times. Aryamā is the foremost well-wisher and protector.

The word aryamā literally means a dear friend. The exact, most specific meaning is, a friend who asks a girl to marry his friend. If a boy has a crush on a girl, his close friend goes to the girl and tells her about the boy in such a way as to attract her attention and affections. That friend is “aryamā”.

It is somewhat fitting that such a friend would never be mentioned in the Vedas as a solitary being, but is always addressed in relationship to his dear brothers: Bhaga, Mitra and Varuṇa.

Aryamā is the divine matchmaker. He pairs young men and women so that they can enjoy what Phālgunī has to offer: love, romance and marriage.

_Uttara Phālgunī produces matchmakers and expert councilors in the arts of love and romance._

*Wedding Vows*

Ṛg Veda (2.27.5) says that Aryamā brings enjoyment even in the face of difficulties. This is very important for marriage, because the relationship between opposite principles, male and female, is rarely without challenges. Aryamā is the love and affection which transforms such challenges into delightful romantic exchanges.

The next mantra says that the paths of Aryamā and Mitra are smooth.[ 18] The next mantra says that Aryamā’s path is beautiful and loving, beyond hatred. Then, the next confirms that Aryamā’s path is particularly _beautiful_.

_Uttara Phālgunī especially makes relationships beautiful, smooth and enjoyable; easing disagreements and promoting accord, harmony and felicity._

The traditional Vedic wedding begins with an invocation to Aryamā, and is followed by one to Aryamā and Bhaga together (gods of the two Phālgunī stars). The would-be groom sends two elders on his behalf to the father of the girl he wishes to marry, to ask for her hand in marriage. This is exactly the meaning of “aryamā”: a friend who asks for a girl to marry his friend. When asking his two elders to act in this role, the would-be groom recites two Vedic mantras invoking Aryamā and (no text after, here, Kindle edition).

Ṛg (10.32.1): “Go straight to the target, bearing great and very satisfying gifts. Let these two reach their target happy and nourished!”

Ṛg (10.85.23): “Seek the bride and bring her to the groom. Travel smoothly to her with Aryamā and Bhaga.”


_ - DiCara, Vic; Kishor, Vraja. 27 Stars, 27 Gods: The Astrological Mythology of Ancient India (p. 72-74). 108 Books. Kindle Edition. _

and what do ya think, @RexMaximus? xD

Still a "dis"-believer?

...matchmaker? xD

x;D


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## Leondar (Mar 13, 2017)

@RexMaximus

Also do you want (would you like) the "Pūrva Phālgunī" description mentioned as well? xD (!)


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## Leondar (Mar 13, 2017)

Interesting how there's more activity on the Enneagram page (also made *this post* on the MBTI, Current response, there: 0 xP) xD


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## RexMaximus (Jun 29, 2016)

@Leondar I don’t need it. Lmao this doesn’t describe me at all. I’m a fairly asocial person. Follow my own code, power seeking, individual before almost all else. More similar to the devil dark whatever piece. Definitely not a matchmaker. INTJ 853 sp/sx is about as far from all of that as you can get. The only reason I was curious was because @brightflashes thought hers was fairly descriptive


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## Leondar (Mar 13, 2017)

RexMaximus said:


> @Leondar I don’t need it. Lmao this doesn’t describe me at all. I’m a fairly asocial person. Follow my own code, power seeking, individual before almost all else. More similar to the devil dark whatever piece. Definitely not a matchmaker. INTJ 853 sp/sx is about as far from all of that as you can get. The only reason I was curious was because @brightflashes thought hers was fairly descriptive


Interesting...

Does this only apply to DEVAS? xO

...or haven't you found enough ("good") matches to make, or perhaps your (you haven't won the favour of your) Pitr...

Hmmm....

I have some questions

.... @RexMaximus


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## Leondar (Mar 13, 2017)

@RexMaximus

Would you say that you're asocial because your (the people around you) aren't worthy of loyalty (or connection, bondage)?

Would you say that you've been let down by those you trusted early on, maybe a few, enough to know that it simply cannot be donw (won't work)

Would you say that if a friend asked you for a favour, and it was within your rational and reasonable right, you would do it

Would you say that you are loyal to your friends, and would do things for them that would be for their good, if they asked you

Would you say that you are always there to help, if asked, no matter HOW CHOOSY you are of the people you choose.?


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## Leondar (Mar 13, 2017)

Also, what's a VIP Member?

PS - My little (not so anymore) bro is the same type (Nakshatra) as you. xD
@RexMaximus


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## Leondar (Mar 13, 2017)

69 posts! xD

Not anymore xD x(


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## Rose for a Heart (Nov 14, 2011)

@Leondar you just need the moon?


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## Rose for a Heart (Nov 14, 2011)




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## Leondar (Mar 13, 2017)

Rose for a Heart said:


> @Leondar you just need the moon?


Yes!

I'm assuming the image has the third row as the moon?


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## Rose for a Heart (Nov 14, 2011)

Leondar said:


> Yes!
> 
> I'm assuming the image has the third row as the moon?


yeah it's ascendant, sun and then moon


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## Leondar (Mar 13, 2017)

@Rose for a Heart

Mula...

Rakshasa!

Yes!

The first VADER arrives! *Cue Imperial March*

(fetching!)


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## Leondar (Mar 13, 2017)

@Rose for a Heart

*Uprooting ~*

*Mūla*

Name: Mūla

Meaning: Root

Symbol: Tangled roots

Deity: Nirṛti - goddess of destruction

Main Stars: The tail of the Scorpion

The Sanskrit word mūla means, “Root, bottom, foundation, origin, beginning, and primary.” It even refers to a “corpse,” perhaps because the body is the root of ego and of our connection to a world that in (is?) always in a state of destruction.

_Its connection to “roots” is a symbol that reveals Mūla’s proclivity towards herbalism, medicines and drugs. It also expresses Mūla’s penchant for seeking the origin, beginning, and unseen root of things._

Mūla belongs to the goddess Nirṛti, the goddess of destruction. The word nirṛti has two parts nir- and ṛta. Ṛta means, “true, luminous, proper, right, lawful.” The prefix, nir-, means, “without.” So, Nirṛti means “unlawful, improper, dark, false, and evil.”

_Mūla impels humanity towards lawlessness and an untamed spirit._

Mahābhārata (Adi. 66.54) depicts Nirṛti as the wife of Adharma (Immorality). They have three sons, Bhaya (Fear), Mahā-Bhaya (Terror), and Antaka (Murder).

Agñi Purāṇa (chapter 51) says that Nirṛti should be worshipped wielding a sword and riding on a donkey. Devī Bhāgavata (8th division) says that she dwells in a city called “Ink Black” (“ Kṛṣṇāñjana”), and is the guardian of the South-East, a direction symbolic of pain and suffering.

Nirṛti the Destroyer has both a male and female form, a “Rudra” and “Rudrāṇī.” The chapter on Rudra’s star, Ārdrā, has much to say which is pertinent to Ārdrā’s sister-star, Mūla. In particular it’s important to recall that the Howling Destroyer (Rudra) becomes the Auspicious One (Śiva) after directing his attention to spiritual pursuits.

_Mūla provides impetuses and resources that are very well suited for spiritual paths. It therefore inspires humanity towards spiritual pursuit: seeking the root of all things, destroying illusions, and going beyond the limitations of what is superficial._

*Transforming Destruction into Auspiciousness*

Atharva Veda (5.7) depicts Nirṛti in two forms: one is horrific and ghoulish, while the other is blonde, fair, golden-clad and wealthy:

Misfortune, go far away!
We deflect your arrow!
We know you well, Nirṛti! Oppressor,
destroyer!
A wild, naked woman haunting our dreams,
Confusing and baffling us
I respect you, blonde Nirṛti
Vast as all of space
Full of auspiciousness, golden
-complexioned,
reclining on gold, dressed in gold,
I respect you.

The first form of Nirṛti is unfortunate, baffling and confusing. It is an oppressive, destructive, naked undead who haunts our thoughts. The second is auspicious, golden, blonde and spread throughout space.

_Mūla is fearsome and destroys us. But when we respect the function of destruction as a necessary stage prior to a new creation, we receive auspicious and beneficial energy from Mūla._

When destruction takes place things are flattened and laid low, razed to the ground, only the roots remain. Corpses or their ashes are put underground, or into water so that they soak into the earth. Destruction (Nirṛti) is intimately tied to what is low and deep (Mūla).

The goddess of destruction works through Mūla. Few people seek destruction, but it is nonetheless an essential part of the balance of nature. It would be good to review the chapters on Bharaṇī (star of the god of death) and Ārdrā (star of the god of destruction and storms) to remember how negative things are essential to positive things.

_Through Mūla we can destroy all that deserves destruction. We can seek our true origin, our true root, and destroy all that is superficial._

_ - DiCara, Vic; Kishor, Vraja. 27 Stars, 27 Gods: The Astrological Mythology of Ancient India (p. 109-112). 108 Books. Kindle Edition. _

xD

The destroyer!

VADER!

#Hail


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## Leondar (Mar 13, 2017)

@Rose for a Heart

Let me know if you would like



Leondar said:


> the chapters on Bharaṇī (star of the god of death) and Ārdrā (star of the god of destruction and storms)





Leondar said:


> to remember how negative things are essential to positive things.


Or anyone for that matter


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## Paradigm (Feb 16, 2010)

Hey, thanks a ton for sharing! Kinda like @brightflashes, I find interest in systems, too.

Do you mind explaining the table in the OP? What's Yoni and Rajju?



Leondar said:


> @Paradigm
> Name: Punarvasu
> Meaning: Reignition
> Symbol: An arrow returned to the quiver
> ...


This is interesting. This part, specifically, sounds a lot like dominant-N functions (MBTI cognitive functions, ENxP or INxJ), or maybe Ti (IxTP). 

If you squint and apply dubious logic, it could apply to my early childhood (which was very medically fragile).



> The name Aditi literally means boundless. She is the fabric of space itself, the boundless matrix within which everything else exists. Because space is the womb within which all live develops, she is the “universal mother.” Especially the “vasu” – the luminous gods – are all her children.
> To be boundless means to have no boundaries, to be whole, unbroken and undivided. The goddess of non-division is the mother of the gods. Her sister’s name is Diti, which means divided. This goddess of division is the mother of the anti-gods. The idea emerges that unity is a godly principle, while division is ungodly. Things that unite have godly effects, while things that divide have ungodly effects.
> _Aditi’s Punarvasu empowers humanity to work cooperatively, become unified; to come together and form a larger pattern within larger patterns._


I'm torn about this. Part of this seems to be a focus on things I don't have at all: SOC and/or Fe, creating and fostering unity. I... can't do that, I have no people skills. I'm INTJ, I want to solve things! 

On the other hand - and I don't speak of this because I'm afraid of mocking - I do kinda believe that everything in the universe is somehow connected. I'm not spiritual or religious, but it's one of those feelings I just have. And I think people focus too much on differences, like people are way more "tribal-thinking" than they believe they are (us vs. them philosophy). I value diversity, and I loathe attempts to remove diversity. 



> (The story of Bali is interesting because he was a Demon who was the most courteous, humble, and knowledged of the demons, the "good" "awwww" (ah "great!", "moral") demon, almost a "god" among the demons but NOOOO VADER xD will share a bit from another story)
> [...]
> Bali thought about this deeply for a few moments. Then he said, “Mother Earth said, ‘I can bear any burden, but I cannot bear a liar.’ Truthfulness is the soul of morality, without which there can be no good fortune. I don’t mind losing my riches, so long as I do not lose my morality.” Śukra was infuriated. “You think you know morality better than I do!? So be it, then! Become penniless!!!” Śukra then disappeared.


Bali sounds like my kind of demon! 
...Śukra sounds like a jerk...


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## ponpiri (Apr 30, 2017)

Haha. Harry's dad's name was James. Did this conversation start from Star Wars?

Here's mine:









Vedic astrology is really hard for me to understand.


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## Leondar (Mar 13, 2017)

I think it's one of the most wonderful things to discover that you can resize the reply window xD



Paradigm said:


> Hey, thanks a ton for sharing! Kinda like


You're welcome! xD



Paradigm said:


> Do you mind explaining the table in the OP? What's Yoni and Rajju?


No clue, haven't learned that part, yet. Quickly glanced through the "Raju" (while glancing away) and realized it could be the part of Brahma (creation) that you are associated with, one of the names "Voora" is the surname of one of my dad's cousin's family, will reply with more when I have it. xD (I very much intend to xD)



Paradigm said:


> This is interesting. This part, specifically, sounds a lot like dominant-N functions (MBTI cognitive functions, ENxP or INxJ), or maybe Ti (IxTP).





Paradigm said:


> I'm torn about this. Part of this seems to be a focus on things I don't have at all: SOC and/or Fe, creating and fostering unity. I... can't do that, I have no people skills. I'm INTJ, I want to solve things!


This is the thing, relating two objects from different systems, kinda like saying 4 is Fi, but I don't have Fi, or 7 is Ne, I don't have Ne, it is your ability to go "high" in thought which is the 7, to explore and contemplate, simultaneously, and it doesn't mean you are Ne or have Ne, it simply means that you go "high" in thought, and your high and low states are different (5 and 1, more on this, later)

^ That could possibly be right where I say it's wrong, but the point is that when you try to identify two different systems using independents from each system to identify with another, you could be missing how 4 could also do with a very personal Fe, or how 7 could do with a very open minded and explorative (why is this a misspelling) Ni. This is the problem with linking two systems, the independents are local to the system, but when you combine, you get a whole different picture, and that's the beauty of life, the magnificence, all it's glory.

Now speaking specifically of your observation, kinda like how another before (@RexMaximus) observed how he was antisocial and how the description didn't fit, it could actually be that he is very commitment oriented, to the things he chooses to commit to, and he does them for long term, he doesn't just make silly commitments, he makes those that will last, or he will probably not make them at all, but he probably takes them seriously, very seriously, and he would probably cut an arm or your arm off before he lets them break. And he probably enjoys his commitments, immensely, the ones he makes. The point is, the application, Uttaraphalguni doesn't mean "Commitment", it means you take your commitments seriously, and you enjoy them, you are trustworthy, and reliable, and long term, you work to make things work, maintain them, and are very sustenance oriented in your approach. This could be ANYWHERE, in ANYTHING.

Back to you, (lol it was supposed to about you xD) Unity doesn't take Fe, it probably takes a few developers (J/K), it takes compassion, see this is the difference between Fe and Fi, the approach, one takes compassion and approaches empathy, while the other takes empathy and approaches compassion, BOTH are necessary, and everyone are capable of both, but you start at one, it's either Fe or Fi, it simply cannot be both until you've mastered F.

Therefore, in your case, it could be your Fi applying compassion, in its way, highly realized and true, not like the natural and limitless Fe compassion that this speaks of, that you are compassionate, but in a highly realized and true manner.

This is why I encourage using real world universal adjectives/verbs/WORDS to describe your experiences, because Fe Fi are not words, they are describable by words, but they are not substitutes for words, like Te is not practicality, Fe can be equally practical, and so can Ti, but in it's own way, Fe is more compassionate in its practicality, and Ti more logical, but practicality is still practicality, the approach of each, is simply different.

This could be in your case as well, the INTJ Aditi, the mother of the GodHead, 7 times, and her father, once, for now, xD




Paradigm said:


> On the other hand - and I don't speak of this because I'm afraid of mocking - I do kinda believe that everything in the universe is somehow connected. I'm not spiritual or religious, but it's one of those feelings I just have. And I think people focus too much on differences, like people are way more "tribal-thinking" than they believe they are (us vs. them philosophy). I value diversity, and I loathe attempts to remove diversity.


Yes, that is very true 



Paradigm said:


> everything in the universe is somehow connected


,and kinda sad



Paradigm said:


> I don't speak of this because I'm afraid of mocking


because it is true, we always knew it, the ancient ones as well, all the ancient societies know and have carried forth practices from when they were nomads, early societies to day, it is the "modern" "Western" societies "Especially" and actually "Only" America that does this "Science" shit and "Psychology" shit, I say "shit" not because it isn't true, but because it's the American lingo, but if you look back and read all the literature written since time immemorial, ever since writing was invented really, you will see that we always knew, acknowledged and lived according to this, Europe just got lost in war, and America, well, was born? A 3 hundred year old culture that tries to claim to know everything or at least "better" than others, alienating themselves from the rest?

I don't think any European country or any other for that matter, would look down on this, it's only the "developed" and "modern" societies that do this, and I am not restricting this to America, it probably happens in the other "developed" cities as well, this to a great extent makes sense, but in the quest for greater physical comfort, which is what Science and Technology entails, aren't you forgetting to look at everything else? How does math solve everything? Math is just your, human, language, to understand things, but if you ignore the ancience (I think this needs to be a word ancient+ce) of words, and only focus on what is "relevant", and fawn over words like that one describing the smell of rain ah "Petricor" (Thank you, Google!), like it was some ancient discovery, like, really? You're using a language, that you (some) modified to your (their) convenience, and spent little to no effort to (because you couldn't because the system and your circumstances didn't let you) find the missing "pages", and suddenly fawn over already created words to simply describe an effect you are now "experiencing" over the Internet because your "real life" is sad and deprived of enjoyment, simply because of a disconnect from the Universe, and reliance on the prioritization of physical comfort, well, you know that bubble's gonna burst, right?

Also, (aren't) all the stuff in the brackets, excuses (, really)?




Paradigm said:


> Bali sounds like my kind of demon!


He was my HERO!

Wept when I heard his story for the first time, like WHYYYYYY did you not assess before you promised, you fool! You won (earned-ish) everything! You could have lived the life of a god, and discarded your worldly desires and ascended, you fool, *tears up* there's a festival celebrated every year in the state where it happened Kerala, also called "God's own country" (Google it, you'll see), (mountains aren't everything ya know xD), 

and it was also the GODS doing, bloody couldn't stand an ASURA conquering the world, could you? You HAD to call Vishnu to clean this up, YOUR mess up, because you couldn't handle disintegration, just sitting in the dark, you needed that "light" and "excess", you couldn't "rebel" (actually that's what they did), and take down evil (the real non Bali one), or just live with "normal" and "dark" you HAD to call the supreme one, the GodHead, and vanquish evil that didn't even bloody exist! He was a good man, a demon, but he was honorable! Does that have no say? No we won't bear the "dark" that's for "demons", you excess seeking pigs!

*cries*




Paradigm said:


> ...Śukra sounds like a jerk...


...that's actually why he was my hero!

Actually the associated versions of Underworld are a whole lot more interesting, check this out

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patala

The section under "Hinduism" (Atala, Vitala, etc)

The demons are just, "us" in a "lower" (DIFFERENT) state of consciousness, lost in physical pleasures, each realm described there describes the associated "pleasure", and when one is in those states of consciousness, the pleasure is just associated, hell the gods enjoyed their pleasures too, it's just the associated level of consciousness or light, do you see how morality isn't even something that is of any relevance at all?

Perhaps I should elaborate on this a little more, point is, there is "dark" and "light" and each with it's own strong case, a virtue wouldn't be a virtue without excess, and a sin wouldn't be a sin without loss, absolute morality makes this mistake of distinguishing between the two and creating a skewed perception because there is no absolute truth, there just is "dark" and "light" each with its own offerings, I think this is a distinction that priests and other preachers often fail to make, that they are two states, both true, leading to their own truths, kinda like when you're a 5, sitting in a 7, and speaking from there, because the darkness makes everything beautiful, like Winter.

Winter is as beautiful as Summer, just different, I think this is a benefit the temperate onwards have enjoyed to create a certain balanced societies, and the closer to the equator you get, the more crazed "god" like societies you have, that are just crazy in excess, Indians, Latinas (Non Portugese/Spanish latin umm language speaking folk Latin Americans?), Africans, etc, whereas the "Whites" are mostly just "dark", (THE IRONY xD) where they are "cold", aware of the "darkness", and celebrate morality, because it reminds them of the path to the light, which I think is a Christian influence, but the point is, there is an inherent "cold"ness to non Christian influenced "white" societies as well, though I think that is rare, the missionaries, REALLY did well, and the Roman Empire, well, did it's thing.

But, close to the Poles societies are just more less lively (lol) than those at the equator, because of this excess/lack combination, but you don't have to be at either in order to be either. It's just the truth immediately available, the seasons, but "dark" and "light" is about much more.

Also, yes Sukran, the king of pleasures, the advisor to the demons, the Brihaspati (cheif guru) of the demons, I wish I were more unskewed right now than I am "feeling" right now, ah better, but he has a point, the point of "dark", what's the point of all this light, when I can do without it? Which is precisely the point of the antigods.

Light simply represents life, but you don't need life for the truth, and just cuz you're alive it doesn't mean you aren't applicable (by, of? under?) the truth wow feeling totally like an ENFP right now, especially because of that skew towards the end, but this is the truth, is it not? That the truth is as true, as life is alive? xD

Also, if life is true, is the truth alive?

If they are both true, aren't "light" and "dark" both?

(TOTALLY understating the point, but that's a start Ha! xD)

Edit,

sorry quoted you @brightflashes by mistake (edit-stuff), and now by intention xD


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## Leondar (Mar 13, 2017)

ponpiri said:


> Haha. Harry's dad's name was James.


I KNEW IT! #NOT xD



ponpiri said:


> Did this conversation start from Star Wars?


YEP




ponpiri said:


> Vedic astrology is really hard for me to understand.


YEP

It's a whole different system, that requires you to understand the basics of stuff with its independents, and the math involved, the "12" cycle, and a bunch of (10032455234692) other stuff that you just catch on along the way, if you have the interest (desperation) and time (joblessness xD)



ponpiri said:


> Here's mine:


(on it! xD)


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## Leondar (Mar 13, 2017)

And I'm guessing Human xD
@ponpiri


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## Leondar (Mar 13, 2017)

@ponpiri

Aaaaaand it's Deva! (Light!) As my afterthought declared! xD

Perks of being an Ne xD

Fetching! xD


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## Leondar (Mar 13, 2017)

@ponpiri

As I thought, the one (I stopped reading at, I think xD)

Now listen carefully...

(fetching! xD)


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## Leondar (Mar 13, 2017)

@ponpiri

*Listening Carefully ~*

*Śravaṇa*

Name: Śravaṇa

Meaning: Listening

Symbol: Ear, three footprints

Deity: Viṣṇu - god of existence

Main Stars: Altair and the two nearest stars

(ASSASINO!)

Śravaṇa means “the act of acquiring knowledge.” It comes from the root śru (“ to hear”). We acquire knowledge, literally and figuratively, by listening - so Śravaṇa means “acquiring knowledge by listening.” An ear is a very straightforward symbol for this star.

_Through Śravaṇa humanity becomes good listeners, speakers and audio-smiths._

We have heard a lot about Viṣṇu throughout this book.

 In the chapter on Bharaṇī we learned how Viṣṇu rescued a person whom he heard calling his name, “Nārāyaṇa.”

 In the chapter on Rohiṇī we learned about Viṣṇu in relation to his “child,” Brahmā. I heartily suggest rereading that section to refresh yourself on its important details pertaining to Viṣṇu.

 In the chapter on Punarvasu we heard how Viṣṇu covered all of existence in three steps. (Another symbol for Śravaṇa is three footsteps.) (In a previous comment *my notes* *not the author's*)

 In Āśleṣā’s chapter we heard about Viṣṇu in relation to his companion, the dragon Śeṣa.

 In Pūrva Phālgunī’s chapter we heard that Viṣṇu is “Bhagavān” in the fullest sense.

(would be more than willing to share the content necessary, provided the Author (Vic Dicara pleaaaaase) doesn't sew (sue lol xD) me xD)

Viṣṇu is the origin of existence itself. The word viṣṇu means “that which is everywhere.” (Siva means that which is not and Brahma means creation *I think* *my notes* *not the author's*) Space is everywhere. It is what everything is inside of, and what everything has within it. The sensory wavelength carried by space (according to the science of Saṁkhya (Math)) is sound. Sound is what the ear hears. Thus all-pervading Viṣṇu is a perfect fit for Śravaṇa, the star of listening.

Viṣṇu is also the god that enables us to listen carefully. To listen carefully we need a pensive and clear state of mind. As we learned in the chapter on Rohiṇī, this world has three primary effects on us: sometimes it excites us to action (rajas), sometimes it lulls us to sleep (tamas) and sometimes it allows us to be balanced and clear (sattva). Brahmā is the god of rajas. Rudra / Śiva is the god of tamas. Viṣṇu is the god of sattva – clarity. So Viṣṇu enables our minds to be clear and pensive so we can listen carefully and gain knowledge.

_Śravaṇa is a star of paying attention and acquiring knowledge. It is an excellent star for education and intelligence, empowering us to ask intelligent questions, listen carefully to answers, and seek qualified teachers._

Viṣṇu is a very transcendental, non-materialistic god. Thus Śravaṇa is particularly well suited to helping humanity acquire spiritual knowledge. A famous verse in the Bhāgavata Purāṇa (7.5.23) explains that the nine processes for obtaining enlightenment all begin with and are rooted in “Viṣṇu Śravaṇa” – hearing from and about Viṣṇu.

_Through Śravaṇa Viṣṇu inspires human beings to seek deeper knowledge, spiritual truths, enlightenment and divine love._

Viṣṇu in Ṛg Veda Viṣṇu is frequently invoked in Ṛg Veda (in 93 different places). He is mainly known there as the younger brother of Indra who reclaimed the universe for Indra in three steps. (Punarvasu in a previous comment *my notes* *not the author's* *lol*)

It is undeniable that Ṛg Veda, being a materialistic and practical text, focuses primarily on Indra. But Viṣṇu is uniquely attributed in a few notable instances. For example Ṛg 1.22.20:

_tad viṣṇoḥ paramam padam sadā paśyanti sūryaḥ_

“The gods always look towards the supreme feet of Viṣṇu.”

Ṛg (1.154.4) also states, “In truth, Viṣṇu alone maintains the existence of all things.”

Ṛg (1.156.2) says, “Viṣṇu is the ancient and the recent, the creator of existence and the creator of his own existence.”

*Viṣṇu’s Incarnations*

Śrīmad Bhāgavatam (1.3) gives the following account of Viṣṇu’s incarnations in this world:

At the very beginning, the All-Attractive takes the form called Puruṣa [a synonym for Viṣṇu], to manifest everything required for creation. He produces great conglomerations of primordial energies and enters each, reclines upon the water there, and enters a mystic sleep. A lotus flower grows from the lake of his naval, atop which Brahmā, the master engineer of the universe, is born.

Then Puruṣa enters every minute particle of the universe, becoming the inexhaustible seed of the multitudes of incarnations, fragments of which create gods, animals, humans and so forth.

His most noteworthy incarnations, in summary, are:

1. The children [Kumāra] performed the difficult spiritual task of uninterrupted celibacy.

2. The boar [Varāha] rescued the earth from the lowest dregs of the universe and lifted her back into her proper place. (oooh interesting story, do reaaad! The symbolism is will share the content for that, asap)

3. The Sage of the Gods [Nārada] compiled purifying books about how to live in the world without becoming entangled in selfishness.

4. The sages Nara-Nārāyaṇa were born from Dharma’s wife. They showed how to perform very serious disciplines of self-control.

5. When empirical sciences were forgotten, the master of perfections, Kapila, revived them by teaching Āsuri.

6. Atri’s wife Anasūyā once prayed for a divine son. That son [Dattātreya] instructed spiritual knowledge to Alarka, Prahlāda (a greeaaaat child prodigy) and others.

7. Yajña, born from Ākūti and Ruci, took care of the world during the difficult transition out of the Svāyambhu Era (was something epic-ly terrible-ly stuff).

8. Urukrama, born from Merudevī and Nābhi, showed the path walked by supremely enlightened souls.

9. As an earthly king [Pṛthu], he answered the prayers of sages by milking the earth to make her body very verdant and attractive. (in an earlier comment (Soma I think) ah Pusya, check that one out)

10. During the global flood of the “Cākṣuṣa” era, he became a fish [Matsya] and protected the lord of humans by keeping him safe on a boat. (ALSO interesting, the FIRST avatar, will explain them all asap! xD)

11. In the form of a tortoise [Kurma] his shell provided the foundation for Mt. Mandara when the gods and demons were churning the ocean. (The SECOND avatar, DAMN that time is getting close xD)

12. Dhānvantari was the twelfth, (not avatar lol) [who produced the nectar *from the 11, second avatar, my notes*], and...

13. Mohinī was an intoxicatingly beautiful woman who gave that nectar to the gods while charming the others with her allure. (there were gods AND demons during the churning, 11, guess who got the Nectar? xD)

14. Nārasiṁha was the man-lion whose claws split open the powerful demon-god, like a carpenter splitting wood.

15. Vāmana went to Bali’s ritual court and peacefully begged three steps of land, for the sake of reclaiming the three worlds. (check the Punarvasu comment)

16. When kings began to hate moral guidance, Paraśurāma protected the earth by annihilating all their militias, twenty one times.

17. Vyāsa entered the womb of Satyavatī through Parāśara, to present the many branches of the tree of knowledge in a way which less intellectual commoners could grasp.

18. Rāma assumed the role of a human king and, for the sake of the gods, performed many heroic deeds like controlling the ocean. (not grand Moses like, *as* it sounds, it was a little different, Ramayana)

19. Bala-Rāma… (needs no further introduction, because there isn't many *lol* *tumbleweed-ish* *ha-huh* *fades-ish* he was around the same time as Rama I think)

20. …and Kṛṣṇa, were born in the Vṛṣṇi family. The All-Attractive thus removed the earth’s burden. (MAHABAAAARATA! *Mahabharat* Bhagvad Gita)

21. When the age of Kali (the dark ages! Yep it was a global phenomenon! xD More on this, asap! xD) advances, he will bewilder those who dislike the godly. He will be named Buddha, the son of Añjanā of Gayā.

22. When the age of Kali draws to a close and almost all the rulers are criminals he will take birth to protect the world with the name Kalki, son of Viṣṇu Yaśā. (OH YES! BRING IT NAOW xD *cannot come soon enough-ish-ish*)

Viṣṇu is a vast sea of being! Thousands of inexhaustible rivers and lakes come from this sea. Likewise, his incarnations are beyond count. All the sages, gods, progenitors, and the original lords of mankind, as well as their extremely powerful descendants, are portions of Viṣṇu.

They are all fragments or expansions of Puruṣa. They all incarnate, age after age, to protect the world whenever the gods’ enemies disturb it. But among them all Kṛṣṇa is unique, because he is the All-Attractive One himself!

Anyone who carefully recites this list of confidential incarnations of the All-Attractive in a spirit of devotion in the morning and evening gets freed from all misery.

_ - DiCara, Vic; Kishor, Vraja. 27 Stars, 27 Gods: The Astrological Mythology of Ancient India (p. 121-126). 108 Books. Kindle Edition. _

Probably the LONGEST *non on the subject-ish* description xD


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## Rose for a Heart (Nov 14, 2011)

Leondar said:


> @*Rose for a Heart*
> 
> Mula...
> 
> ...


All 4s are demons  roud: 




> * Uprooting ~*
> 
> *Mūla*
> 
> ...


I do like the way this began because I certainly so seek the "root" of things. Some people might think it's idiotic, the fact that I value simplicity, but I think it's the opposite actually. I am always trying to feel the essence of something or someone - and perhaps all Fi types do this, I don't know. Because in that essence is everything you could possibly need to know about the object. Everything derives from this essence. Unfortunately, it's not easy for me to put it into words. And it's not necessarily all-encompassing: I mean, when I prefer a function, I also neglect others, so there's that. But my mind has always tried to go the essence or core of something in order to understand it. 

I, of course, do that with myself. 4s are said to be "seeking the origin." I have this compulsion or instinct inside of me to not deny or hide who I am. Jung was right in that we all try to disown certain attributes about ourselves, and that by itself produces all kinds of anxieties - if not most of them. So yeah, I also have that "me/not me" division within myself, and I am also on the journey where you have no choice: of individuation. Except, I have always identified strongly with what's wrong with me - not only did I believe they were an indelible part of me, but that it was the most important part of me: it made me who I am. I am, of course, trying to remedy the latter belief, because it's not a healthy one to hold, especially in extreme. 

I want to follow that feeling into its unconscious roots. So I try to reach the origin, but not through destruction. In fact, I don't really enjoy being rebellious or going against the grain whatsoever. Although I _can _still do this, of course. I just don't like it. I need to know how I really feel and the underlying pain, emotions, other visceral sensations that cannot be condensed to just words. They are like body memories: something your body clearly remembers but you cannot _recall_. I need to experience the complete depth of what's going on underneath the surface, so I have a need to _experience _the unconscious. The more I fight who I am (don't we all though, and that was the point Jung was trying to make), the more anxiety and pain there is. But compared to other people, the fact that I identified with my shadow, allowed me to be _more open_ to this process of individuation. I find it violent to deny or fight any real part of me, as difficult as it is to acknowledge them. 

So I do seek beginnings, but I don't do it by actively being rebellious or destructive. Although I can be destructive in the sense I may not care about others (or about myself, frankly) when I am consumed by this desire to get to the root of myself. 




> Mūla belongs to the goddess Nirṛti, the goddess of destruction. The word nirṛti has two parts nir- and ṛta. Ṛta means, “true, luminous, proper, right, lawful.” The prefix, nir-, means, “without.” So, Nirṛti means “unlawful, improper, dark, false, and evil.”


That's a coincidence: I have had someone guide me through all this recently and she identified with the word "luminous." She is a 4 also, but I guess in this system she is most likely a "Deva"? I don't know. She just gives me that vibe. I actually, read the description for each "gana" and I was like...hah...the demon is definitely me. I am very self-absorbed and "stubborn," for example. 




> Mūla impels humanity towards lawlessness and an untamed spirit.


Yeah I don't relate to this. I am not "lawless" at all, and I wish my spirit was less tamed. I am very sensitive to shame (anything from embarrassment to complete humiliation), so I am self-conscious and not "untamed" whatsoever. 




> Agñi Purāṇa (chapter 51) says that Nirṛti should be worshipped wielding a sword and riding on a donkey. Devī Bhāgavata (8th division) says that she dwells in a city called “Ink Black” (“ Kṛṣṇāñjana”), and is the guardian of the South-East, a direction symbolic of pain and suffering.


I do focus a lot on_ pain and suffering -_ more so than most people. 




> Mūla provides impetuses and resources that are very well suited for spiritual paths. It therefore inspires humanity towards spiritual pursuit: seeking the root of all things, destroying illusions, and going beyond the limitations of what is superficial.


Sounds like me. I have also been irritated with modern psychology's approach to everything by trying to "change it." If something is wrong, I want to understand it, I don't automatically think of changing it. I don't know why, but it really, really angers me. Probably because I have to listen to this all the time given the graduate program I am in. I think it's a shame that Jung's genius is lost on most people. Even I have a hard time really understanding him - not only because he thinks in a way completely foreign to me (different personality types), but also because his ideas are so damn complex. I still really like them though. But yeah, I am fuming inside because of how 99% of people are so focused on change, when it should be that understanding should be prioritized and change will be natural by-product of it. You cannot deal with things like this superficially.


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## Farfadou57 (Feb 10, 2017)

@Leondar

It was very interesting, thanks a lot.


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

I like your enthusiasm, and this is new and interesting to me, so I'll give it a go.

Moon: Magha

I did a little bit of digging and found this:



> *Magha (The Great One)*
> 
> Gana: Rakshasa (demonic)
> Disposition: Ugra (fierce or aggressive)
> ...





> *CRUEL (Ugra, Karur) CONSTELLATIONS*
> 
> WORKS: ambush, burning, poisoning (self & others), making & using weapons especially related to fire, cheating / deception / wickedness / craftiness, cutting & destroying, controlling of animals, beating & punishing of enemy.





> *Magha* is derived from Maghavan. Magha is the causes of brightness and light. Magha stands for noble impulses and incentives, the gift of Magha must always be a noble one. It shows that we are coming to the end of a cycle.
> 
> Indications: They are noble and eminent persons with leadership abilities. In this nakshatra, kings or presidents are born, or simply those who rule or take charge. There is a drive for power and wealth. They are traditional with strong values and strong ambitions leading to restlessness. They are attached to their heritage and ancestry, and will usually seek out their family tree or origins. Worldly power and a need for recognition can obsess them. They have a generous heart, and deep loyalty with possible arrogance and egotism. Elitism and class-consciousness can make them quite snobby. There is a sense of emptiness that drives them towards enlightenment.


...it's all very intense. I'd be interested in reading more about it.


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## owlet (May 7, 2010)

I got Svati for moon. I haven't heard of this system before.


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## Leondar (Mar 13, 2017)

@Rose for a Heart



Rose for a Heart said:


> All 4s are demons  roud:


Kiiiiiiinda, not the pride type, (Deva, Hasta), but I take PRIDE in my individuality, as I have mentioned before, but that's about it. I don't hang on to it, though, my individuality, as much as I should, (lol), (has cost me), but I very much AM a 4, AND GO BALI! <3 xD



Rose for a Heart said:


> I do like the way this began because I certainly so seek the "root" of things. Some people might think it's idiotic, the fact that I value simplicity, but I think it's the opposite actually. I am always trying to feel the essence of[...
> 
> ...]So I do seek beginnings, but I don't do it by actively being rebellious or destructive. Although I can be destructive in the sense I may not care about others (or about myself, frankly) when I am consumed by this desire to get to the root of myself.
> [/QUOTE/
> ...


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## Leondar (Mar 13, 2017)

@Farfadou57


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## Leondar (Mar 13, 2017)

@Immolate

AnOTHER RAKSHASA ARRIVES TO...

...Immolate us

(fetching! xD)


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## Leondar (Mar 13, 2017)

@Immolate

*Inherited Power ~*

*Maghā*

Name: Maghā

Meaning: Power

Symbol: Throne

Deity: Pitṛ - ancestral spirits

Main Star: Regulus

The word magha means “power” and also means “gift.” The symbol of Maghā, a throne, is an image of inherited power. Indra, the king of the gods, seated on the throne of paradise is known as Maghavan.

But it is the Pitṛ (ancestral spirits) who are the deities of Maghā – signifying that we inherit power from our ancestors.

_Maghā bestows gifts “from our ancestors.” This literally indicates inheritance of power, career, fortune, and qualities (“ DNA”). Such inheritance really comes as a result of efforts made in our previous births, so Maghā also indicates powers, qualities and abilities carried over from past lives._

*Divine “Ancestors”*

The Manu-Smṛti’s third chapter tells us that Pitṛ are divine beings who are the “forefathers” of us all. It says that some of Brahmā’s initial mental offspring created the Pitṛ, who in turn created powerful beings, who in turn produced the original members of the various species in the universe.

So the Pitṛ are an intermediary being between the original mental offspring of Brahmā and the subsequent physical offspring that created the gods, humans, animals, etc.

The Purāṇas, especially Vāyu and Brahmāṇḍa, describe many types of Pitṛ:

1) Original Pitṛ – divine ancestors;

a) Forefathers of non-humans
i) …of the divine race called Sādhya
ii) …of the gods
iii) …of the anti-gods and similar supernatural beings

b) Forefathers of humans
i) …of intellectuals
ii) …of rulers
iii) …of producers
iv) …of workers

2) Souls of deceased human ancestors who become Pitṛ.

The main concern of the Pitṛ, regardless of their type, is to bring peace and prosperity to the souls of their descendants when we die and have to transition between one lifetime and the next. They perform sacrifices, prayers and meditations to pacify the chaos and confusion which tends to befall newly deceased souls.

The foremost of all the Pitṛ is Aryamā. In Bhagavad Gītā (10.29) Śrī Kṛṣṇa says:

_pitṝṇām aryamā cāsmi_

“Among the Pitṛ, I am Aryamā.”

We will discuss Aryamā in more detail, because he has his own star very close by, Uttara Phālgunī. (in an earlier comment)

The Afterlife Garuḍa Purāṇa’s 14th chapter relates:

The god of death, Yama is the master of the Pitṛ’s world, pitṛ-loka – the afterlife realm, which is “below” the earthly realm but “above” the nether-paradise of the Nāga.

The Pitṛ guide the soul through the afterlife, which contains experiences akin to our modern western concepts of heaven and hell. The Pitṛ help deceased souls face Yama, the god of death, who judges their deeds and rewards and punishes them accordingly.

To help correct specific wrongs, Yama sends the soul into any of the 28 “hells” of pitṛloka. To encourage and reward good deeds, Yama sends the soul into the “heaven” of pitṛloka where they enjoy heavenly delights with bodies similar to the gods.

When the due rewards and punishments are exhausted, Yama usually sends a soul to its next earthly birth. Occasionally, Yama will keep a soul for an extended period, promoting it into the ranks of the Pitṛ, or another type of divinity in some other realm.

*Ancestor Worship*

In ancient India, the Pitṛ were worshipped with approximately equal importance as the gods, but the rituals were different. Rituals for worshipping the Pitṛ are called śrāddha and always involve grains. Indeed the word magha can even connote “grain.”

The śrāddha ritual highlights the mutual indebtedness between ancestor and offspring. In Vedic culture, it is the duty of every child to have at least one child of his own. This is how we repay our debt to the ancestors who paved the way for our birth, and it helps insure success of the Pitṛ’s original duty: to populate the universe.

The divine “ancestors” help guide us through the afterlife when we die, and when our literal ancestors die it is our duty to make an effort to help them. Therefore a child performs śrāddha on behalf of his deceased parents. The ceremony worships not the deceased but the Pitṛ who will make the effort to ease the passing of the deceased.

_ - DiCara, Vic; Kishor, Vraja. 27 Stars, 27 Gods: The Astrological Mythology of Ancient India (p. 61-64). 108 Books. Kindle Edition._ 

...thank you (for the enthusiasmic compliment), king, throne, father? xO


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## Leondar (Mar 13, 2017)

@owlet Svati! (Deva!) (I think!) (YES!)

If you were my co... "suitor", it would have been awesome (we would have been married! xD)! xD

(fetching! xD)


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## Leondar (Mar 13, 2017)

PS - I REALLY hope Vic, DiCara, doesn't sue me! xD


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## Leondar (Mar 13, 2017)

Leondar said:


> @Farfadou57
> 
> Fingers crossed this is not that long xD
> 
> ...


Oh wait, I already shared it! xD

@owlet

Now everyone gets to hear about my almost marriage, everytime! xD

(and disappoint ment heartbreak x( )


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## Leondar (Mar 13, 2017)

Did I miss anyone? xD?


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## Leondar (Mar 13, 2017)

Off to sleep then be back in a few hours xD

May the Trimurti (3, Siva(Destroyer)-_Tamas_(Rest), Visnu(Protector)-_Sattva_(Clarity), Brahma(Creator)-_Rajas_(Action)) watch over you! x3 (hahah! was supposed to be a x<3 but I think I found my new emoticon! x3D dayum!)


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## Leondar (Mar 13, 2017)

And I'm back! xD3


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## ElliCat (May 4, 2014)

Did someone already have Uttarabhadrapada in Moon? Or am I the first?

(Krittika in Sun, Mula Ascending)


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## Leondar (Mar 13, 2017)

ElliCat said:


> Did someone already have Uttarabhadrapada in Moon? Or am I the first?
> 
> (Krittika in Sun, Mula Ascending)


ABSOLUTELY the first, I think,


...and Manushya... I think...


YES!

(fetching! xD)


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## Leondar (Mar 13, 2017)

@ElliCat

*The Depths ~*

*Uttara Bhādrapadā*

Name: Uttara Bhādrapadā

Meaning: Blessed steps (II)

Symbol: Hearse

Deity: Ahirbudhnya - water-dragon

Main Stars: Algenib (γ Pegasi) & Alpheratz (α Andromedae)

Uttara Bhādrapadā is the second in the Bhādrapadā pair. Like the first, it is about “auspicious steps” - the path from this life to the next. Like the first, it deals with the theme of reincarnation and transformation, but where the previous Bhādrapadā approaches the theme in a difficult manner (the _early_ steps on the “auspicious path”, wherein we must accept destruction and let go of our previous identities) the second star in the pair, Uttara Bhādrapadā, has a more pleasant angle because it represents the later steps on the “auspicious path”, during which we have already made peace with the loss and destruction of our old situation and are ready to embrace the transformation to our new state.

Both Bhādrapadās are ruled by gods of destruction (Rudras) in the form of dragons (Nāgas). The dragon of Pūrva Bhādrapadā is surrounded by fire, a painful element. The dragon of Uttara Bhādrapadā, on the other hand, is surrounded by water, a soothing element.

_Uttara Bhādrapadā, like its twin, inclines human beings towards a transcendent and transformational path, but with more calm and less scorn compared to its predecessor._

_Being the star of a dragon, Uttara Bhādrapadā does incline humanity towards wealth. But the decidedly transformational or even “spiritual” nature of Uttara Bhādrapadā allows us to conceive of wealth as something more than just a financial entity. Much more than its predecessor, Uttara Bhādrapadā imparts generosity with wealth and an optimistic vision for the future._

*Dragon of the Deep*

The name Ahirbudhnya is a compound of two roots, ahi + budhnya.

 Ahi refers to the sky

 Budhnya means bound to the root.

In this case the “sky” refers to the entire cosmos. At the root of this cosmic sky is a powerful Nāga who holds the entire thing in place: Ahirbudhnya. In later tales Ahirbudhnya is more commonly referred to as Ananta Śeṣa, about whom we first learned in the chapter on Āśleṣā. I recommend rereading that chapter’s section on Ananta Śeṣa, particularly paying attention to the spiritual themes this divinity brings to Uttara Bhādrapadā.

Since the lower half of the cosmos is thought to contain a type of cosmic “ocean”, and since Ahirbudhnya is at the very root of the cosmos, he dwells at the bottom of this ocean. Thus we can refer to him as “the dragon of the deep.”

_Uttara Bhādrapadā imparts a love for water, and all the classical qualities of the Water element: fertility, beauty, quietude, calm, introspection, and even a loneliness or sense of being separate and private from the world._

Ahirbudhnya is an auspicious dragon, but a dragon nonetheless. So…

_Anger, aggression and envy sometimes manifest through Uttara Bhādrapadā, but the watery environs and spiritual temperament of Ahirbudhnya tends to make such things short lived and manageable._


_ - DiCara, Vic; Kishor, Vraja. 27 Stars, 27 Gods: The Astrological Mythology of Ancient India (p. 142-144). 108 Books. Kindle Edition. _

...dragon Queen (I think, yep)


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## ElliCat (May 4, 2014)

Interesting, thank you!



Leondar said:


> Uttara Bhādrapadā is the second in the Bhādrapadā pair. Like the first, it is about “auspicious steps” - the path from this life to the next. Like the first, it deals with the theme of reincarnation and transformation, but where the previous Bhādrapadā approaches the theme in a difficult manner (the _early_ steps on the “auspicious path”, wherein we must accept destruction and let go of our previous identities) the second star in the pair, Uttara Bhādrapadā, has a more pleasant angle because it represents the later steps on the “auspicious path”, during which we have already made peace with the loss and destruction of our old situation and are ready to embrace the transformation to our new state.
> 
> ...
> 
> _Uttara Bhādrapadā, like its twin, inclines human beings towards a transcendent and transformational path, but with more calm and less scorn compared to its predecessor._


I _am_ drawn to the concept of transformation. 



> Both Bhādrapadās are ruled by gods of destruction (Rudras) in the form of dragons (Nāgas). The dragon of Pūrva Bhādrapadā is surrounded by fire, a painful element. The dragon of Uttara Bhādrapadā, on the other hand, is surrounded by water, a soothing element.
> 
> _Being the star of a dragon, Uttara Bhādrapadā does incline humanity towards wealth. But the decidedly transformational or even “spiritual” nature of Uttara Bhādrapadā allows us to conceive of wealth as something more than just a financial entity. Much more than its predecessor, Uttara Bhādrapadā imparts generosity with wealth and an optimistic vision for the future._


Hmm, I'm a Dragon in Chinese astrology too. I like that "wealth" is defined more broadly here - yes I'm always wishing I had more money, but it's because of what money can get you (experiences, developing new skills, etc)



> _Uttara Bhādrapadā imparts a love for water, and all the classical qualities of the Water element: fertility, beauty, quietude, calm, introspection, and even a loneliness or sense of being separate and private from the world._


I do love water. All of this rings true. 



> _Anger, aggression and envy sometimes manifest through Uttara Bhādrapadā, but the watery environs and spiritual temperament of Ahirbudhnya tends to make such things short lived and manageable._


Doesn't feel manageable at the time, but it sure is short-lived! Not long enough to do anything with the anger, hah!


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## SysterMatic (Jun 8, 2014)

Magha.. Does that mean I'm with bad guys, right?


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## owlet (May 7, 2010)

@Leondar Thanks for going through all these descriptions for people, it's very interesting - is there a correlation between western astrological sign placement (i.e. moon sign) with these? For example, my western moon sign on that chart was Scorpio, while in this system it's Svati, and a friend of mine has Scorpio as their sun sign, which also showed up as Svati, or is that a coincidence?


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## Rose for a Heart (Nov 14, 2011)

Leondar said:


> @*Rose for a Heart*
> 
> 
> 
> Kiiiiiiinda, not the pride type, (Deva, Hasta), but I take PRIDE in my individuality, as I have mentioned before, but that's about it. I don't hang on to it, though, my individuality, as much as I should, (lol), (has cost me), but I very much AM a 4, AND GO BALI! <3 xD


I was mostly just kidding haha. Take the example of my friend that I brought up, turns out she's a Deva as I intuited. More on this later. 



> Haha, it would be interesting to see what she scores,


Yeah, so she is a Deva because her moon is in Hasta. I also just went through and looked at other planets, and it turns out we both have 4 planets in the "human" realm, but she has a lot more in deva realm than she does in demon, and the opposite for me. I have 4 planets in the demon realm. I don't know if it's appropriate or not to look at them collectively like this but it was still interesting. 



> I think that's the thing about "demons", you don't really the "light", you are on the "other" side, sitting, watching, observing, learning, plus, this is just your HEART, your reflections, your Moon is your reflection of your soul, your light, the Sun, of Consciousness, your other planets define how you "side" with that respective function.


Did you mean I don't really see the light? I have always felt something was different about her even though she is a 4. She was too "positive." Not in an effusive and insincere way since she's an Fi user (MBTI) she's reserved. But, she always told me that I am too identified with my shadow. That at one point she used to be but isn't anymore. I have also grown but I can't ever imagine being like _her_, if that makes sense. I just _am _this way. I am scared I will never get over it, actually. Anyways, she definitely gave me that "deva" vibe and it turns out to be true. 



> For instance, your Mars is 'Aslesha' which is a "Demon" which means that you ACT selfish, your DESIRES (and actions) are selfish, and serpentine, I'll share the bit on Aslesha if you'd like, Mars is possibly related to Te, non restrictively (it is MUCH more), you probably ACT in a way which is embracing, like the grip of the dragon, and you are "materialistically pleasing" in your embrace, your "captives" are probably sensually charmed by your "grip" and they "submit" (lol) to you knowing fully well what it is that they submit to, subject to correction, it has been a while since I've read the chapter on Aslesha (just the once/once.5).


Sure, feel free to tell me more about this. I didn't comment on what you have already said here because I am not sure what you mean yet. "Materialistically pleasing"? 



> And your Mercury "mind" is 'Purvabhadrapada' which is "Manushya" meaning, you are balanced in mind, neither "dark" nor "light", you (think about) take(ing) when you need, and give(ing) when you need, it's right in the middle, you probably are also not confused about your head type, it's always been clear, you probably know who you are, mentally, and you embrace both sides, equally.


Actually, my head fix was the last thing I figured out (enneagram). It was much more hidden to me than my heart or gut fix. I am not much of a "giver" though. 



> This is probably your circumstances in order, when you get the "root" of most if not every thing, will you remain so?


I don't know. 



> Modern psychology is young, and attempts to punch beyond its weight. The embrace that the West and other "developed" nations has had on this, is immense, and so they suffer from its limitations, there is something I think you would like to watch, relevant, just a bit of a talk, on the subject, it might interest you.


Sorry, I watched half the video but I'm not into it. Hope you don't mind. 



> You haven't gotten to the 'Mula', There are 4 - F N T S, there are different approaches, there's an Excel sheet I've made, screenshots of which I've uploaded (1M, 2M) and a general collection of observations (3M), an attempt to understand the system, MBTI, but I think it's relevant...


What I said isn't relevant to "Mula"? Also, I cannot see your excel sheets, the pictures are too small. 



> ...because in your "light" you're either an Fi or an Fe, basically, you start in one place, you either start at Fi and find your way to F, that is start with empathy and find your way to compassion, or Fe, start with compassion and find your way to empathy, apply the same logic to the other N T S, (start with imagination, towards prediction, practicality towards logic, and memory to experience, and vice versa, the last one sounds a bit off though) but you get the picture, you start from one, and get to the whole, but get to the whole you must, because there is a whole, and eventually you will, unless you stop yourself.


What exactly do you mean? You mean Fi or Fe for example is not whole in itself, but together they are?


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

Leondar said:


> PS - I REALLY hope Vic, DiCara, doesn't sue me! xD


It seems I found him on youtube:






Thank you for the write-up, I'm going to do a bit more curious digging and get back to you  

I'm also curious about what you said here to someone else:



> I think that's the thing about "demons", you don't really the "light", you are on the "other" side, sitting, watching, observing, learning, plus, this is just your HEART, your reflections, your Moon is your reflection of your soul, your light, the Sun, of Consciousness, your other planets define how you "side" with that respective function.


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## Rose for a Heart (Nov 14, 2011)

Found mine: 






Also something this reminded me of, never really looked into sidereal astrology but apparently my moon is in Ophiuchus in sidereal. There are plenty of placements that didn't make any sense though (in both sidereal and tropical astrology) for me.

Found the one for my mars in Aslesha:


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## Dangerose (Sep 30, 2014)

I'm confused

This part?










So my moon is Uttarashadha?
@Leondar


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

Name: Bharani
Gana: Manushya
Nadi: Madhya


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## Leondar (Mar 13, 2017)

Leondar said:


> @Immolate
> 
> *Inherited Power ~*
> 
> ...


There you go @Inver, yes. xD


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## Leondar (Mar 13, 2017)

Rose for a Heart said:


> I was mostly just kidding haha. Take the example of my friend that I brought up, turns out she's a Deva as I intuited. More on this later.


Excellent!




Rose for a Heart said:


> Yeah, so she is a Deva because her moon is in Hasta. I also just went through and looked at other planets, and it turns out we both have 4 planets in the "human" realm, but she has a lot more in deva realm than she does in demon, and the opposite for me. I have 4 planets in the demon realm. I don't know if it's appropriate or not to look at them collectively like this but it was still interesting.


Yes, I think each Nakshatra is unique, the "point" of this post was a light-human-dark game, but I think this goes a whole lot deeper. 




Rose for a Heart said:


> Did you mean I don't really see the light? I have always felt something was different about her even though she is a 4. She was too "positive." Not in an effusive and insincere way since she's an Fi user (MBTI) she's reserved. But, she always told me that I am too identified with my shadow. That at one point she used to be but isn't anymore. I have also grown but I can't ever imagine being like _her_, if that makes sense. I just _am _this way. I am scared I will never get over it, actually. Anyways, she definitely gave me that "deva" vibe and it turns out to be true.


'Use' the light, I think, yes, I think you are who you are, and you must be who you are, so that you may be in sync and harmony with the Universe, the interpretation is yours, but it is your symmetry. 




Rose for a Heart said:


> Sure, feel free to tell me more about this. I didn't comment on what you have already said here because I am not sure what you mean yet. "Materialistically pleasing"?


It was ungrounded interpretation of the Nakshatra-Planet combination, sorry. Glad to see you found a video, was it enlightening?



Rose for a Heart said:


> Actually, my head fix was the last thing I figured out (enneagram). It was much more hidden to me than my heart or gut fix. I am not much of a "giver" though.


Again, an ungrounded interpretation, sorry.




Rose for a Heart said:


> I don't know.


Once more, perhaps (ungrounded interpretation), but perhaps it would be interesting to see how things turn out.




Rose for a Heart said:


> Sorry, I watched half the video but I'm not into it. Hope you don't mind.


Not at all, another ungrounded connection, it was meant to comment on the connection between "thought" and "emotion", his content is a little biased (maybe more) to the Indian audience, his content seeks to appeal to the "Indian", and it can be hard to not be caught up in his commentary, as it is to not connect (in your case).



Rose for a Heart said:


> What I said isn't relevant to "Mula"? Also, I cannot see your excel sheets, the pictures are too small.


Again, another ungrounded interpretation, sorry. I was trying to connect a possibility mentioned earlier ("what if you get to the 'mula' of (almost)everything?") to some observations I was making from the MBTI system. Oh they were much bigger when I uploaded them, specifically zoomed in for the same. Will try to upload bigger versions.



Rose for a Heart said:


> What exactly do you mean? You mean Fi or Fe for example is not whole in itself, but together they are?


I meant to say that there is an F, inclusive of all Fi and Fe, and that you begin at either Fi or Fe, and get to F. Similar to how I mentioned with N S, and T.


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## Leondar (Mar 13, 2017)

Immolate said:


> It seems I found him on youtube:


Excellent, just don't mention the thread... maybe xD J/K, if he appreciates it, excellent, though I wouldn't mind taking the posts down, if he wanted them to be.



Immolate said:


> Thank you for the write-up, I'm going to do a bit more curious digging and get back to you


You're welcome, @Immolate Glad to be of service! 



Immolate said:


> I'm also curious about what you said here to someone else:


Ah, as replied in an earlier comment, it was an ungrounded interpretation based on the light-human-dark play.

What I meant was this, that not all of us stay in the "light", going by the analogy, of the light-dark scale, I think we are either at the "light" or the "deva" side of the scale, or the "dark" or the "asura" side of the scale, no side is good and no side is bad, it's just that the light has more "life", and the dark has "everything else" look up at the night sky, what you see apart from the stars, is "everything else", but both are very much "alive", they just fall on different sides of the scale which includes everything, and both contain the entire contents of the scale, just that the devas are more light, and asuras more dark.

But life needs "light", so from a "life" pov, as in all the stories, the "humans" pov, the devas, are ascended, and the asuras, descended, this is because of the nature of the energy, with more "life" and "life" supporting energy leading to ascendance, "bliss" (pleasure without bounds) and eventually moksha (liberation from rebirth) as compared to the asuras' energy leading to "Pleasure", "intoxication" (pleasure with bounds) and eventually misery and rebirth.

A little more on the rebirth, there are 3 bodies we all possess, the physical body (which we see), the astral body (which contains our life energy), and our causal body (which contains our karma or accumulated joy, unfulfillment, memory), when we die, our physical and astral bodies die, but our causal body remains, and it is the accumulations of the causal body which causes rebirth.

I will share good material on this when I find it, but if you would like a layman definition of karma, it is the feeling you feel, in your body, that is independent of your mind, life energy (astral body), your physical state of well being (physical body), the "joy" or "pain" you feel, is your causal body, and it occurs due to your response to your environment. A phrase I read in a book I browsing in a bookstore, today, off memory said: "It is the accumulations of the causal body which causes rebirth, every action taken results in the expulsion (or another word referring to the discharge) of life energy and "semen" (probably the corresponding (ovary?) reproductive object in the female body), which is why when enough (I think) semen is discharged, (and corresponding ovaries, I think, not mentioned, but implied, I think) a child is born, so every action taken results in creation (also why I think Brahma (the creator) is considered Rajas aka action), in order to prevent karma, one must sit with their chitt (Cit, consciousness) and process the appropriate responses", and I really wish I remembered what he wrote after this, but what he said, made a brilliant connection in my head, which I am unable to reconnect or re-"create" in words, so I'll leave this here, and come back and comment once I've had the chance to take a look at it, again, but it was simple and brilliant, like the rest of the book I'd read. Now I'm considering purchasing it on Kindle, lol xD
(_Shiva to Shankara: Giving Form to the Formless by Devdutta Pattanaik_, I think somewhere near the middle of the fist chapter, the kindle sample only covers the introduction)

Will see if I can visit the bookstore, soon (or maybe purchase it). xD

Have you noticed your "body" experience differently when you're doing something as opposed to when you're considering it. I actually made several brilliant connections, as I was sending my mom off to the airport, just now, if causal and astral and physical in sync = flow? (just now) But that's all in the astral level, and really, your chitt is all you need, for it sees beyond this, it is your consciousness, of your soul (I think), and it is beyond the 3 bodies. I also read somewhere that your Causal body is the layer over your soul, hence that which you carry, the karma, into your next "life", imagine a life without the 3 bodies, and just your consciousness, can you attain anything but pure bliss?

Made several connections to my Astro reading skills, that...

Considering offering chart reading...

Which reminds me, I do have one pending... xD
@Immolate @Rose for a Heart @anyone else interested (please be a user xD)


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## Leondar (Mar 13, 2017)

...also this new theory, Enneagram = Physical body, Chart = Causal+Astral+Physical (less so than the Enneagram), would love to see what digs up xD

Edit

And Cit, CHiTT, dat C sh*t, D sh*t we C = MBTI?


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## Rose for a Heart (Nov 14, 2011)

Leondar said:


> 'Use' the light, I think, yes, I think you are who you are, and you must be who you are, so that you may be in sync and harmony with the Universe, the interpretation is yours, but it is your symmetry.


I was also looking at the other placements and I don't come across as "demonic" (lol) at first impression, at all. Mrigashirsha as the ascendant makes sense. At least, what I got from it was: deer-like, sweet, big-eyes or innocent I suppose because "youth-like." And I do come across that way. I am social first in enneagram also, so I smile a lot - often out of embarrassment haha, but I do, I come across as very So/Sx in that way. 

As for my sun in UB, what I got from the video was that it's about holding on to things that are more "permanent." If everything is lost, what remains? And I am very much like this - it ties into the getting to the root thing too. What is real and authentic inside of me? Or inside of anyone else. Or in the world in general. I am scared sometimes that I won't like the answer, but I can't _help _constantly seeking it. 



> It was ungrounded interpretation of the Nakshatra-Planet combination, sorry. Glad to see you found a video, was it enlightening?


I don't really get Aslesha, no. I watched the video and I didn't relate to it. I am not "cunning" really nor do I care about "wealth and luxury." Actually, I find myself tuning out every time an astrology description starts talking about "wealth and material things" because I really don't care. Perhaps it's the SP last (enneagram)? I don't know. Anyways, I think my brother has his moon in Aslesha, and this describes him much better than me. When I think "serpentine" I think cunning, sly, also reminds me of Slytherin. He's not a bad person or anything, he mostly tries to use his skills to persuade us to buy him pizza or something lol, he loves food, he is always trying to sell us his idea to get him the food he wants. He's ENTJ 836 (or 386) so this description makes a lot more sense for him. He's also all about "I want to grow up and make a lot of money and get a mansion to live in." He can also lie quite a bit. At least he used to when he was younger...he would lie about literally anything. But he would always smile a little after he did so it was ridiculously obvious. So...yeah. I didn't relate to the description of Aslesha. 

I will have to see your excel sheets in order to comment on that.

Also can you talk more about Rahu and Ketu? (North and South lunar nodes, right?). Because from what I know of the SN, it's things you are "comfortable with" or good at already. There was something interesting I found - I was just looking at Carl Jung's vedic chart, and his moon is in Bharani, and my Ketu is also in Bharani. Is that why I connected with the things he said? Just curious. Because he really does think very differently from me, and it's not easy for me to decipher him, yet I am drawn to what he says because I know I have felt it too.

Also I have my moon conjunct Jupiter in the 7th house. I guess I might just PM you haha about all this if that's ok with you.


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## Leondar (Mar 13, 2017)

So sorry been away, will reply to your messages, soon.


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## INForJoking (Nov 23, 2015)

I did mine and it said Deva. Interesting!


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## Birbsofafeather (May 18, 2017)

My twin and I, who are very opposite personality-wise, would both be Visahka. I'm curious to hear how both of us are linked according to this strange theory.


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## Leondar (Mar 13, 2017)

INForJoking said:


> I did mine and it said Deva. Interesting!


yes, what did you score?(are) xD


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## Leondar (Mar 13, 2017)

Birbsofafeather said:


> My twin and I, who are very opposite personality-wise, would both be Visahka. I'm curious to hear how both of us are linked according to this strange theory.


Excellent! Could be your chart placements are different, could you share your details via pm or here minutes could make a difference xD you could have very similar astral (mental) bodies but different causal and physical bodies, the chart will say 

also who's the elder one? xD


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## Leondar (Mar 13, 2017)

owlet said:


> @Leondar Thanks for going through all these descriptions for people, it's very interesting - is there a correlation between western astrological sign placement (i.e. moon sign) with these? For example, my western moon sign on that chart was Scorpio, while in this system it's Svati, and a friend of mine has Scorpio as their sun sign, which also showed up as Svati, or is that a coincidence?


yes, your chart placement shows what AREA of life your energies are focused, the nakshatras are physical points in space which are correlated to "constellations", so you could have the same nakshatra for a placement in the same sign, as listed here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakshatra#List_of_Nakshatras

you can see the physical placement of nakshatras from here:

http://www.vedic-astrology.net/FreeClasses/Nakshatra-Diagram.pdf (the numbers are the constellations from 1-Ashwini to 27-Revati I think, minus 1 in between Abhijit)

you're welcome! xD


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## Leondar (Mar 13, 2017)

ElliCat said:


> I _am_ drawn to the concept of transformation.


xD



ElliCat said:


> Hmm, I'm a Dragon in Chinese astrology too. I like that "wealth" is defined more broadly here - yes I'm always wishing I had more money, but it's because of what money can get you (experiences, developing new skills, etc)


Wow! xD

Yes! xD



ElliCat said:


> I do love water. All of this rings true.


xD

Would be interesting to see why the ones who didn't feel their readings rang true, didn't felt so.



ElliCat said:


> Doesn't feel manageable at the time, but it sure is short-lived! Not long enough to do anything with the anger, hah!


xD



ElliCat said:


> Interesting, thank you!


You're welcome! xD


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## Leondar (Mar 13, 2017)

Nissa Nissa said:


> I'm confused
> 
> This part?
> 
> ...


Yes, @Nissa Nissa

fetching! xD

(REALLY hope Vic Dicara doesn't sue me xD)


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## Leondar (Mar 13, 2017)

@Nissa Nissa

*Complete Victory*

*~ Uttara Aṣāḍhā*

Name: UttaraAṣāḍhā

Meaning: Invincible (II)

Symbol: Elephant tusk

Deity: Viśvedeva - all supernatural powers

Main Stars: ζ and σ Sagittarii

Uttara Aṣāḍhā is the second in the Aṣāḍhā pair; the second “elephant tusk.” As with all the paired stars, the second shares all the main themes of the first, with some subtle yet important differences. Uttara Aṣāḍhā is like Pūrva Aṣāḍhā in granting power to humanity, but it differs from the former by being less self-oriented and more inclined to consolidate power and resources from many diverse supporters. This is because the deity of Uttara Aṣāḍhā is not a singular being but a complete plurality of all the gods and goddesses.

_The invincibility of this second Aṣāḍhā comes from the ability to pull together many divergent resources and make them work for a common purpose._

Both Aṣāḍhā stars are invincible and undefeatable – but Uttara Aṣāḍhā lacks the soft, watery element which made Pūrva Aṣāḍhā’s power more appealing. Thus Uttara Aṣāḍhā appears more literally undefeatable and unchallengeable, much like an elephant storming through a gate.

*All Inclusive Divinity*

Viśva literally means, “all, every.” Deva means “divinity.” The fundamental meaning of the word Viśvadeva is, “every divinity.”

The Ṛg Veda adopts this meaning and has many prayers directed to all the gods, on the principle that no divinity should be left out from praise. As Viśvadeva, all the gods cooperate together under a central deity, usually Indra (see Ṛg 3.54.17).

Viṣṇu Purāṇa and other Purāṇas do not ignore this meaning, but give an additional definition of the Viśvadeva as one of nine special groupings of divinity. There are usually 10, sometimes 12, deities counted in this group, all of whom are said to be children of Viśvā, one of the daughters of the universe’s genetic engineer, Dakṣa. These deities control the various powers required to be a well-rounded and successful individual.

_From either angle, the Viśvadeva empower humanity to draw upon a large pool of resources, and become successful as a result of being endowed with qualities and skills from diverse sources._

Another effect of drawing power from all sources:

_Uttara Aṣāḍhā empowers human beings to give “110%” to their tasks, drawing all available power and pouring it into each of their endeavors._

_ - DiCara, Vic; Kishor, Vraja. 27 Stars, 27 Gods: The Astrological Mythology of Ancient India (pp. 118-120). 108 Books. Kindle Edition. _

xD

Would you like the one on Purva Asadha? the first of the pair? xD


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## Leondar (Mar 13, 2017)

@tanstaafl28

*Labor Pains*

*~ Bharaṇī*

Name: Bharaṇī

Meaning: Bearing children

Symbol: Vulva, downward-triangle

Deity: Yama - god of death

Main Stars: The dim triangle: 41, 39 and 25 Arietis.

The name Bharaṇī comes from the word bharaṇa, which means, “to maintain, bear, support.” The English phrase, “bearing children” or “labor pains” expresses it perfectly. The vulva is an excellent symbol for Bharaṇī because it symbolizes bearing children, which itself summarizes the main characteristic of this star: bringing new life into the world at the cost of great labor and pain.

It seems odd that the powers of Yama, the god of death, reside in the star which bears new life. This highlights the fact that life and death are inseparable and new life is impossible without the death of the old. As expressed by Śrī Kṛṣṇa in Bhagavad-Gītā (2.27):

_“Death is certain for one who is born._
_Birth is certain for one who dies.”_

*Life Needs Death*

The fundamental character of Bharaṇī is that good things cannot come without difficulties. Illustrating this, Mahābhārata (Vana. 142) tells a story of life being unable to continue without death. The story takes place in the “First Age” of history, during which time humans have extremely long lifespans. Yama, the god of death, therefore thought it would be OK to take a break for a while. But the population of the Earth quickly became too great and she could not support everyone. Overpopulation began to cause serious problems. The gods appealed to Viṣṇu, who took the form of a boar to lend strength to the Earth. Yama came back to his duties (making sure people die) and the situation came back to normal.

In another section (Ādi. 199), Mahābhārata tells a similar story. Yama once took the position of chief priest in a very long religious ritual, putting his duties as the god of death on hold for many, many years. Everything was getting out of balance in the world because no one was dying, so all the gods begged Yama to stop and go back to his normal duties. When he did, people started dying again and everything returned to normal.

_Death may not be pleasant, but it is good and important. Bharaṇī is like that: it contains the sacrifices that must be made to produce something worthwhile; difficulties must be endured to produce something great._

*Death of Death*

This next story illustrates a similar point. There are a few slightly different versions it, this telling is found in Padma Purana: Once upon a time, a young boy was told that he would die when he turned sixteen. Seeking protection from this fate, the boy sat in yogic meditation before a deity of Śiva. When he turned sixteen, the agents of Yama tried to take him, but could not approach him due to the power he had accumulated. Yama himself appeared personally with his noose. But when he threw the noose, the boy leapt upon and embraced his deity, crying for protection. The noose encircled both the boy and the deity, who became furious at what Yama appeared to be attempting. The deity sprang to life and burned Yama to ashes.

All the gods appealed to Śiva to reconsider what he had just done. Without death, how would the world continue to function as it was intended by Viṣṇu? Accepting this, Śiva brought Yama back to life after granting the boy, Mārkeṇḍeya, an extremely long lifespan.

_Like the boy, we also try to escape the challenges of Bharaṇī. But as the story goes his efforts caused more harm than good, creating a calamity that required extensive divine intervention and troubled all the gods. We are not supposed to avoid Bharaṇī. We are supposed to embrace it just as a mother must embrace labor contractions if she wishes to later embrace her beautiful child._

The boy meditated upon a famous mantra from Ṛg (7.59.12) and Yajur Veda, the mahā-mṛtyuṁ-jaya (“ the great triumph over death”). This mantra can be effective for dealing with Bharaṇī if one chants it with the intention not escape ones difficulties, but to prosper from them:

_Oṁ
tryambakaṃ yajāmahe
sugandhiṃ puṣṭi-vardhanam
urvārukam iva bandhanān
mṛtyor mukṣīya māmṛtāt._

*Escaping Bharaṇī Śrīmad Bhāgavatam*

(6.1-3) tells the story of a man who did escape the noose of Yama:

Once, there was a pious man who worshipped Nārāyaṇa (Viṣṇu), but whose mind got infected with base desires upon seeing lewd behavior. He soon abandoned his family and dedicated everything he had to a prostitute. Eventually they had a child, whom he named Nārāyaṇa. At the moment of his death, he saw the agents of Yama approaching and cried out for his son, “Nārāyaṇa!"

The agents of Viṣṇu arrived immediately and forbade the agents of Yama from taking the man. “A person able to fix their minds on God while they are dying does not require any additional corrections,” they declared. Yama himself agreed that this was true. The man was released and engaged in purifying deeds for the rest of his life before attaining liberation.

As illustrated here, the names of Viṣṇu help us deal productively with the labor pains of Bharaṇī, by making us more devotional and self-sacrificing. The man in this story was even more successful than the boy in the previous story. So the most efficacious mantra for dealing productively with Bharaṇī is one composed of Viṣṇu’s names. Kali Santarana Upanishad (an appendix to Yajur Veda) specifically recommends:

_hare kṛṣṇa, hare kṛṣṇa, kṛṣṇa kṛṣṇa, hare hare_
_hare rāma, hare rāma, rāma rāma, hare hare_

*Restriction*

Bharaṇī is like the child cramped within the womb: It is a difficult star of struggles and restrictions. Indeed, the name of the god of death, Yama, literally means restriction / regulation. Death is merely the ultimate regulation, the most inescapable restriction.

In Bhagavad-Gītā (10.29), Śrī Kṛṣṇa says:

_yamaḥ saḿyamatām aham_

“Among enforcers I am Yama.”

Bharaṇī represents difficulties we must face before we can prosper. It is a star of yama: limitation and restriction. To face such trials we must develop yama: self-control.

*Note on Yama and Dharma*

The god of death (Yama) and the god of morality (Dharma) are different beings, frequently confused to be one. It’s easy to see how this confusion would arise: Dharma (the god of morality) is also called Yama because morality requires self-control (yama). And Yama (the god of death) is also called Dharma - because he judges people after death on the basis of their morality (dharma). Despite sharing names, however, they are different beings, and it is Yama, not Dharma, who empowers Bharaṇī.

_ - DiCara, Vic; Kishor, Vraja. 27 Stars, 27 Gods: The Astrological Mythology of Ancient India (p. 14-18). 108 Books. Kindle Edition. _

xD


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## Leondar (Mar 13, 2017)

Rose for a Heart said:


> I was also looking at the other placements and I don't come across as "demonic" (lol) at first impression, at all. Mrigashirsha as the ascendant makes sense. At least, what I got from it was: deer-like, sweet, big-eyes or innocent I suppose because "youth-like." And I do come across that way. I am social first in enneagram also, so I smile a lot - often out of embarrassment haha, but I do, I come across as very So/Sx in that way.


Awwwww xD



Rose for a Heart said:


> As for my sun in UB, what I got from the video was that it's about holding on to things that are more "permanent." If everything is lost, what remains? And I am very much like this - it ties into the getting to the root thing too. What is real and authentic inside of me? Or inside of anyone else. Or in the world in general. I am scared sometimes that I won't like the answer, but I can't _help _constantly seeking it.


Made a post on this a little ago, that's what your spark, light lies in.
xD





Rose for a Heart said:


> I don't really get Aslesha, no. I watched the video and I didn't relate to it. I am not "cunning" really nor do I care about "wealth and luxury." Actually, I find myself tuning out every time an astrology description starts talking about "wealth and material things" because I really don't care. Perhaps it's the SP last (enneagram)? I don't know. Anyways, I think my brother has his moon in Aslesha, and this describes him much better than me. When I think "serpentine" I think cunning, sly, also reminds me of Slytherin. He's not a bad person or anything, he mostly tries to use his skills to persuade us to buy him pizza or something lol, he loves food, he is always trying to sell us his idea to get him the food he wants. He's ENTJ 836 (or 386) so this description makes a lot more sense for him. He's also all about "I want to grow up and make a lot of money and get a mansion to live in." He can also lie quite a bit. At least he used to when he was younger...he would lie about literally anything. But he would always smile a little after he did so it was ridiculously obvious. So...yeah. I didn't relate to the description of Aslesha.


Yeah, Aslesha's a little different, from his book anyway, it's sensual pleasures but one that is capable of great transcendence.



Rose for a Heart said:


> I will have to see your excel sheets in order to comment on that.


The one with the connections? Will share bigger images if possible.



Rose for a Heart said:


> Also can you talk more about Rahu and Ketu? (North and South lunar nodes, right?). Because from what I know of the SN, it's things you are "comfortable with" or good at already. There was something interesting I found - I was just looking at Carl Jung's vedic chart, and his moon is in Bharani, and my Ketu is also in Bharani. Is that why I connected with the things he said? Just curious. Because he really does think very differently from me, and it's not easy for me to decipher him, yet I am drawn to what he says because I know I have felt it too.


Yes, Rahu and Ketu are points in your causal which connects with your sun and moon, your sun is your causal body, but your entire planets are also your causal body, individual aspects, and your moon is your astral body, and contains your memories from past lives, so rahu and ketu are points in your causal when sun and moon align, eclipses with ketu representing your past and rahu your present all that you've accumulated in your past lives is your ketu and rahu is the present the opposite kinda like a straight line from your past to your present ketu to rahu, that's about all i have right now xD

but they are messengers of the moon, working this way... xD

it could be that what his astral perceived was something your past had already perceived, kinda like you already knew? xD

that's the interesting bit with rahu, if ketu is your past, rahu your present, and it's a straight line...

Bharani! <3 xD (My ascendant, physical, I think xD)

xD



Rose for a Heart said:


> Also I have my moon conjunct Jupiter in the 7th house. I guess I might just PM you haha about all this if that's ok with you.


Done xD


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## Leondar (Mar 13, 2017)

Birbsofafeather said:


> My twin and I, who are very opposite personality-wise, would both be Visahka. I'm curious to hear how both of us are linked according to this strange theory.


Also, did you want the description?

And that's the most adorable signature pic ever! xD


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## Krayfish (Nov 3, 2015)

Hi, I'm not really sure how to read this, but here's mine. I'm am going with ENFP 9w1 sp/so for the time being
(also north or south indian chart? I just did north Indian if that makes a difference)








**NOTE, Is this supposed to be the same as my western chart? All the signs are the same?**


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## Dangerose (Sep 30, 2014)

Leondar said:


> @Nissa Nissa
> 
> *Complete Victory*
> 
> ...


Thank you so much lovekitty::words::lovekitty: This is so nice of you to be doing this!

And, that would be lovely if it's not too much trouble :teacup:


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## mnemosyne (Oct 25, 2017)

I think I have uttarashadha in my moon as well. Rohini for sun and ascendant.


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## INForJoking (Nov 23, 2015)

I can't remember how I found my Deva..... Anyway, I'm learning Western Astrology, but I'm so intriguingly interested in Vedic Astrology. Here are pictures of my chart: 

































Please let me know what it means. Thanks! Please let me know if you need more information. : )


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