# Raising/having a kid in 2016



## Fumetsu (Oct 7, 2015)

katemess said:


> No, you weren't. I'm pretty sure the parents of those 11-year-old groupies who were out screwing musicians would have made the choice "to hide them from that" if it was possible. It wasn't the dark ages.
> 
> If you think kids nowadays are that feral, don't have them. Pretty simple. Not necessary to seek validation from others on an issue you've already made your mind up about.



No, it isn't " that simple". 

I don't have children because I don't want them, and, as I said, I still get to put up with them 24/7 by parents who, by what an can only imagine is a bitter and vengeful move towards a society that tricked them into having kids they don't want, allow them to run around and scream and generally become everyone else's problem.


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## Fantome (Oct 19, 2015)

katemess said:


> @Fantome We're not talking about two different things. I gave the example of baby groupies and you said that children could be hidden from that back then. I disagreed. Same topic.
> 
> The bands/musicians of this generation are a non-issue too. No different. Perhaps less talented and more reliant on autotune as a whole, but inherently no different.
> 
> If your friends are adults and don't know about bondage, then I'd say that they're the exception, not the rule.


Baby groupies are nothing seriously.. And even back then, it wasn't "normal". They couldn't be hid, but you could make sure your kids weren't hanging with them. 

And look at Nicki Minaj and her entourage.. The "heavy" back then, becomes normal. 

My friends know bondage, but couldn't tell me how tie up a girl so her ass pop and so she cannot move at all. Like my friend's brother did.
Nowadays if you wanna know something, simply google it up. You don't have to ask a friend who got told by a friend who's friend into something, etc. etc.


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## katemess (Oct 21, 2015)

Fantome said:


> Baby groupies are nothing seriously.. And even back then, it wasn't "normal". They couldn't be hid, but you could make sure your kids weren't hanging with them.
> 
> And look at Nicki Minaj and her entourage.. The "heavy" back then, becomes normal.
> 
> ...


It was pretty normal in the 60s and 70s to be following the "free love" trends, whether that meant you were a groupie or not. 

What do you mean by the Nicki Minaj entourage? Are you talking about body image?

Then don't have kids and stay off the internet. People with your kind of pessimism are draining.


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## katemess (Oct 21, 2015)

Fumetsu said:


> No, it isn't " that simple".
> 
> I don't have children because I don't want them, and, as I said, I still get to put up with them 24/7 by parents who, by what an can only imagine is a bitter and vengeful move towards a society that tricked them into having kids they don't want, allow them to run around and scream and generally become everyone else's problem.


Lol, you're a hoot.


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## Fantome (Oct 19, 2015)

katemess said:


> It was pretty normal in the 60s and 70s to be following the "free love" trends, whether that meant you were a groupie or not.
> 
> What do you mean by the Nicki Minaj entourage? Are you talking about body image?
> 
> Then don't have kids and stay off the internet. People with your kind of pessimism are draining.


Are you sure you're not ENFP ?

I think you look at life through rose-tinted glasses. You might not see in clearly because you grew up in this generation.
I totally understand your point of view, but you don't seem to take everything under consideration.

And I love your "Then don't have kids and stay off the internet. People with your kind of pessimism are draining."
Damn, that escalated pretty quickly. I'm in constant search for knowledge, internet might be one of my favorite tool. But you seem to take this so personally.


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## katemess (Oct 21, 2015)

Fantome said:


> Are you sure you're not ENFP ?
> 
> I think you look at life through rose-tinted glasses. You might not see in clearly because you grew up in this generation.
> I totally understand your point of view, but you don't seem to take everything under consideration.
> ...


Are you sure you're an ENTP? You're a bit uptight.

You don't understand my point of view at all. This whole time you have been refusing to accept what I've been saying: that every generation thinks the "current" generation is the worst. 

I think you're the one looking at things through rose-coloured glasses, actually. You're the one idealising the past and thinking life and children in the past were so much better. 

How am I taking it personally? No one cares whether you have kids or not. You don't need validation from a bunch of strangers on the internet, but you seem to think you do. You ask a question framed in an opinion and then tell the person who disagrees with you that they're "taking it personally". Ok, mate.


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## Fumetsu (Oct 7, 2015)

katemess said:


> Lol, you're a hoot.


Thanks I try.

But seriously, meaningless quips aside-what exactly _is_ your argument? Do you _have_ an argument? 

Do you think that the rest of the populous _should_ be happy listening to ear-splitting screaming or being nearly knocked over by unsupervised little brats every time they go out to enjoy a relaxing evening? 

Do you just not believe me? Because if you were a Methodist -not the religion the idea-then I can see why might think that. But I assure you, it's true 

Do you think that all children are all precious bundles and you're just pointlessly harassing anyone who doesn't?

Or are you one of the afore-mentioned people who is so miserable that you've made it your life's work to make everyone else just as unhappy as you are?

If you answered yes to 1 well, I don't give a flying fruity fuck as that would make you the kind of horribly entitled, selfish and inconsiderate person, apparently ignorant to the existence of other people that is to blame for horribly entitled, selfish and inconsiderate children even more ignorant to the existence of other people,which make the rest of us not want to have children.

If you answered " yes" to 2 or 3 that means you are a close minded-person who apparently finds it impossible for realities other than thier own to exist in which point continuing to attempt a conversation with you is utterly pointless.

If you answered " yes" to 4 then you have my sincere condolences. I've seen too many young couples destroy thier lives by having children because they felt compelled by society.

If the answer is " none of the above" then I don't know/care what your problem is but in keeping with my original point: don't make it mine.


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## katemess (Oct 21, 2015)

Fumetsu said:


> Thanks I try.
> 
> But seriously, meaningless quips aside-what exactly _is_ your argument? Do you _have_ an argument?
> 
> ...


You could not be more of a nobscrot if you tried. Well done. 

Also, good on you for hijacking a post that has nothing to do with the bile you're spewing.


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## Fumetsu (Oct 7, 2015)

katemess said:


> You could not be more of a nobscrot if you tried. Well done.
> 
> Also, good on you for hijacking a post that has nothing to do with the bile you're spewing.


Yet another meaningless quip...oh and an immature personal attack.

That really validates your point, which again, is _what_ now?


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## birdsintrees (Aug 20, 2012)

*Thread warning. Stay on topic and do not derail.*


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## Asmodaeus (Feb 15, 2015)

While human nature has been immutably flawed from time immemorial, the reason why I’m not interested in having children is because I honestly don’t think parenting is for me. It’s simply not in my nature.

However, others could reasonably conclude that having children is somehow convenient for them, according to their interests and circumstances.


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## birdsintrees (Aug 20, 2012)

Personally I think blaming society is a bit of an overreaction and a cop out. Parenting isn't easy and I believe that it's ultimately up to the parents to provide a kid with the tools it needs to navigate society without making too many stupid life choices. In saying that; kids making poor choices is part of growing up. 

I used to not want kids. Wasn't interested. Then I woke up one day and felt differently. It happens. It's such a personal decision that is made for many reasons that are all inherently selfish (no egg and sperm are asking you to fuse them in order to create the human being that is formed by their meeting.). Having kids is just as selfish a decision as not having them. 

Society doesn't bother me and when it comes to deciding to raise kids, the current state of the society i live in is of no influence. I feel I can control enough environmental factors for me to be comfortable that my kid, due in a few months from now, will grow up to be a decent human being provided I am a decent enough parent.


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## Rags (Apr 11, 2015)

The sweet scent of juvenoia


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## SilverKelpie (Mar 9, 2015)

> The counts of the indictment are luxury, bad manners, contempt for authority, disrespect to elders, and a love for chatter in place of exercise. …
> 
> Children began to be the tyrants, not the slaves, of their households. They no longer rose from their seats when an elder entered the room; they contradicted their parents, chattered before company, gobbled up the dainties at table, and committed various offences against Hellenic tastes, such as crossing their legs. They tyrannised over the paidagogoi and schoolmasters.


 - From a 1907 dissertation by Kenneth John Freeman, summarizing complaints against young people that educators had in Ancient Greece.


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## Fantome (Oct 19, 2015)

birdsintrees said:


> I used to not want kids. Wasn't interested. Then I woke up one day and felt differently. It happens. It's such a personal decision that is made for many reasons that are all inherently selfish (no egg and sperm are asking you to fuse them in order to create the human being that is formed by their meeting.). Having kids is just as selfish a decision as not having them.


First of all, congrats on your upcoming baby. 

Then, I like the point about selfishness. Personally, I think that a kid must be something prepared and you have to plan and have the budget for. Having a kid is a selfish decision because the baby never asked for it, as you said. The parents decide that they want to live the experience, etc. Especially if parents don't have the money for it and aren't prepared.

I'm glad you're confident in having all the tools to raise your kid properly. 
I didn't lose faith in the whole upcoming generations, there is always exceptions. 
Australia is a whole different thing then Canada also. I wish you good luck !




SilverKelpie said:


> - From a 1907 dissertation by Kenneth John Freeman, summarizing complaints against young people that educators had in Ancient Greece.


Yes, it has always been bad. But what I mean is, it's getting worse and worse by the years.
Everything is acceptable now.


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## Fumetsu (Oct 7, 2015)

Ragtail said:


> The sweet scent of juvenoia


I'm not phobic of kids. I'm phobic of noise and children are the greatest contributors of that.

I've got a good reason though, I hear well above the human hearing range. So high-pitched sounds physically hurt and make it impossible to think. I do try to ignore it, but it's an involuntary reaction.

It's actually really frustrating when no matter how badly I try to control it every time I involuntarily jump, or curl up like a dead bug and dig my nails into the table that my Grandmother gets angry at _me_ and tells. Me to " stop overreacting." 

I'm already incredibly agitated that doesn't help.


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## Punniez (Jun 23, 2015)

If you want kids, have them. If you don't, then don't. What's the problem here? The biggest influence on a child isn't "society," it's you, the parent. (I'm not making this up, there's a lot of studies out there on this) Making excuses probably means you aren't ready or don't want the little snot-filled, grubby-handed troublemakers.


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## Carpentet810 (Nov 17, 2013)

I used to not want kids but then one day I woke up and realized what terrible, taxing burdens children are and thanked god that I have none!!! 

And then I got a call from some friends who wanted to go gambling in the Bahamas so I up and went. 

The End. 

I love stories with happy ending!


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## Punniez (Jun 23, 2015)

Carpentet810 said:


> I used to not want kids but then one day I woke up and realized what terrible, taxing burdens children are and thanked god that I have none!!!
> 
> And then I got a call from some friends who wanted to go gambling in the Bahamas so I up and went.
> 
> ...


But you know what those kid-lovers are going to say in response to this:

Part II (after the happy ending)
You're dying on a lonely hospital bed. You look over to the next bed and there is another geriatric patient surrounded by his kids and grandchildren. He dies with a smile on his face. You look up at the ceiling and a single tear runs down your crinkled and weathered cheek.


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## Carpentet810 (Nov 17, 2013)

Punniez said:


> But you know what those kid-lovers are going to say in response to this:
> 
> Part II (after the happy ending)
> You're dying on a lonely hospital bed. You look over to the next bed and there is another geriatric patient surrounded by his kids and grandchildren. He dies with a smile on his face. You look up at the ceiling and a single tear runs down your crinkled and weathered cheek.


Reality is that doesn't happen to most guys who never have a family. They tend to die doing something they love like flying their plane, sailing, skydiving, fighting wars and whatnot. They can take more risk because they have no one holding them back. Die a geriatric surrounded by family or die doing what you love without anyone being saddened at all. There are plenty of old men and plenty of bold men but almost no old bold men.


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