# Duality Doesn't Necessarily Mean Feelings Are Mutual, Does It?



## ParetoCaretheStare (Jan 18, 2012)

I'm confused about duality because I cannot accept the idea I have come up with since the realization of its understanding within myself. Finally, this rationalization of what duality actually is falls into place in the form of a question that has been bugging me for the past seven years now (time flies by so quickly):

Does dualization mean mutual love or is a relationship of duality usually one-sided? What I mean by this is how is it possible for a couple which lives in a content duality partnership/marriage to occur so peacefully with only one person in the entire ordeal of well-thought out time, energy, and spontaneous companionship to feel so deeply for so long?

I think this is an arguable case because it happens to be SO RARE when couples are together for the sheer reason of both loving one another, being in love with one another, and deeply, mutually, and in a no-questions asked, "no intruders allowed to break us up "sort of way...

How does duality REALLY feel in terms of when the intimacy really does go down? Is it possible for duality relations to become abusive?

Stories, feedback, professional knowledge...list your reasons below.


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## Another Lost Cause (Oct 6, 2015)

I don't think duality is really related to love per se, it just means that communication is easier and more satisfying than it is among other types. Abusive people with issues will abuse anyone. I think love among duals can be equal but will give the impression of one-sidedness. An ESFj is probably going to look more loving and appear to be doing more work in the relationship than the INTj to outsiders. But the ESFj won't find that necessarily unequal because they're aware of hidden dynamics that others don't see.


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## Graveyard (Oct 23, 2015)

Eh, well, duality is seen as pretty candy dandy, but it has many problems. Yes, communicationis pretty easy between duals and yes, it's the so called _perfect match_ (because according to the theory, they have everything you look for). But the very first challenge is actually getting to know each other. You know those "unlikely couples"? They are most likely duals (or semi-duals). The reason why they seem so unlikely is because, at a superficial level, they don't like the same things. Hence the high mirror/benefit percentage of marriages. 

Second, it depends how healthy as a person they are. It only takes a drop of evil to fuck up two beautiful people. 
So be careful.

Third, it's not always _meant to be_. Sometimes circumstances get around dual pairs; one of them is already interested (romantically) in someone else, they don't want a relationship, or simply don't want you as a romantic partner. Things happen. 

I've had dual friendships but no dual boyfriend. Mostly because I can't find a gay SLE. They're so rare. 
But I never was too close to any of them. They weren't that interested in me either. They are okay friends, and really cool too, but it's never as "deep" as duality is said to be. Many factors play out. Duality is a sloooowwww burrrnnnnin processssssss.


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## cyamitide (Jul 8, 2010)

Duality only improves some aspects of communication and coordination between the two people. Which is not unimportant, believe me my parents don't have a very good intertype and coordination between them is abysmal at times, which is frustrating to everyone involved. But it's only a part of what is needed for a loving relationship. If you meet at least 16 people a month, chances are you have already met some of your duals but it wasn't like you have fallen in love immediately. There needs to be something more for those kinds of deeper feelings to take root.

As to what's left when the feelings die down? Maybe a good friendship, children (and later grandchildren), shared goals they need to work to reach. A dual couple in my neighborhood has been married for close to 20 years, and has several kids they are trying to put through college and high school. It's hard to say how they feel about each other after all these years, but they don't look unhappy or anywhere near wanting to split.


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## ParetoCaretheStare (Jan 18, 2012)

Graveyard said:


> Eh, well, duality is seen as pretty candy dandy, but it has many problems. Yes, communicationis pretty easy between duals and yes, it's the so called _perfect match_ (because according to the theory, they have everything you look for). But the very first challenge is actually getting to know each other. You know those "unlikely couples"? They are most likely duals (or semi-duals). The reason why they seem so unlikely is because, at a superficial level, they don't like the same things. Hence the high mirror/benefit percentage of marriages.
> 
> Second, it depends how healthy as a person they are. It only takes a drop of evil to fuck up two beautiful people.
> So be careful.
> ...



I beg to differ in that you say it takes a drop of evil to ruin a relationship between two beautiful people. It takes reality's destiny which determines whether two people are meant for each other. Signs only help these people stay together or apart. As for the individual standpoint, it's rare when two people mutually feel the same way about one another. 

I also differ in your opinion about there being a rare amount of male SLEs. I see and bump into them ALL THE TIME ( I live in NYC, gay ones are all over the place) and they're quite awesome and brave although they're my conflictors so I usually don't stop and chat with them for very long as they're irrational doers who don't have time for an irrational unicorn who weighs a ton. Lol. They're hard to keep up with though, so that might be the problem for you...

Anyway hopefully you can take some advice from what I've just given you. It's hard to hang out around duals and that's probably some sort of way the universe tells you that you'll eventually find one another. You just have to be quite patient and stick to what you believe is right. Perhaps you need a change of scenery.


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## Graveyard (Oct 23, 2015)

ParetoCaretheStare said:


> I beg to differ in that you say it takes a drop of evil to ruin a relationship between two beautiful people. It takes reality's destiny which determines whether two people are meant for each other. Signs only help these people stay together or apart. As for the individual standpoint, it's rare when two people mutually feel the same way about one another.
> 
> I also differ in your opinion about there being a rare amount of male SLEs. I see and bump into them ALL THE TIME ( I live in NYC, gay ones are all over the place) and they're quite awesome and brave although they're my conflictors so I usually don't stop and chat with them for very long as they're irrational doers who don't have time for an irrational unicorn who weighs a ton. Lol. They're hard to keep up with though, so that might be the problem for you...
> 
> Anyway hopefully you can take some advice from what I've just given you. It's hard to hang out around duals and that's probably some sort of way the universe tells you that you'll eventually find one another. You just have to be quite patient and stick to what you believe is right. Perhaps you need a change of scenery.


Hm, that was a quote from Marina and the Diamonds. The song is about how a toxic person can ruin a relationship; don't take it too seriously. Regarding destiny... I don't really believe in such concept. Nothing is predetermined, and only when conditions are met an event takes place. I however agree with you; it's pretty hard to find two people who feel the same about one another.

I don't mean to say there are not enough male SLEs. They are the stereotype of the bro and all that. They're pretty cool. What I meant was that, at least in my country (which doesn't fully support homosexuality, and it's seen generally as an stigma), it's next to impossible to find a _gay_ SLE. The gay community here is pretty Delta; funny enough, the lesbians are pretty Beta ST. I don't have problems hanging around my duals though, they think I'm chill. 

Yes, a change of scenery would come in handy! I'm trying to change my social circle anyway.
However, finding your dual partner without at least reading a bit of socionics is a really slim chance. You're likely not to ever meet yours in a lifetime, unless you're actively seeking one.


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## Captain Mclain (Feb 22, 2014)

Graveyard said:


> Hm, that was a quote from Marina and the Diamonds. The song is about how a toxic person can ruin a relationship; don't take it too seriously. Regarding destiny... I don't really believe in such concept. Nothing is predetermined, and only when conditions are met an event takes place. I however agree with you; it's pretty hard to find two people who feel the same about one another.
> 
> I don't mean to say there are not enough male SLEs. They are the stereotype of the bro and all that. They're pretty cool. What I meant was that, at least in my country (which doesn't fully support homosexuality, and it's seen generally as an stigma), it's next to impossible to find a _gay_ SLE. The gay community here is pretty Delta; funny enough, the lesbians are pretty Beta ST. I don't have problems hanging around my duals though, they think I'm chill.
> 
> ...


I think 'the bro', or 'the dude' is stereotypical a ESI male. x)


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## Graveyard (Oct 23, 2015)

Captain Mclain said:


> I think 'the bro', or 'the dude' is stereotypical a ESI male. x)


Nah, I mean the guy that goes wild in a party and everyone loves when in a reunion but find "too extreme" to hang out with. 

Although ESIs are very bro-ish. ;P


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## Captain Mclain (Feb 22, 2014)

Graveyard said:


> Nah, I mean the guy that goes wild in a party and everyone loves when in a reunion but find "too extreme" to hang out with.
> 
> Although ESIs are very bro-ish. ;P


SLE is the guy who feel like he is a monster and try to fit in. x)


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## Graveyard (Oct 23, 2015)

Captain Mclain said:


> SLE is the guy who feel like he is a monster and try to fit in. x)


Ah, but they're not monsters. They're perfect. ;D

Side note: we're going to make this a complete and utter derail. We should cut it here.


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## ParetoCaretheStare (Jan 18, 2012)

Graveyard said:


> Hm, that was a quote from Marina and the Diamonds. The song is about how a toxic person can ruin a relationship; don't take it too seriously. Regarding destiny... I don't really believe in such concept. Nothing is predetermined, and only when conditions are met an event takes place. I however agree with you; it's pretty hard to find two people who feel the same about one another.
> 
> I don't mean to say there are not enough male SLEs. They are the stereotype of the bro and all that. They're pretty cool. What I meant was that, at least in my country (which doesn't fully support homosexuality, and it's seen generally as an stigma), it's next to impossible to find a _gay_ SLE. The gay community here is pretty Delta; funny enough, the lesbians are pretty Beta ST. I don't have problems hanging around my duals though, they think I'm chill.
> 
> ...



Nah, I don't think you have to be actively seeking one. I think you find one either way, but there are too many obstacles in the way of you being together...unless you both agree to rid yourselves of them that is.


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## Graveyard (Oct 23, 2015)

ParetoCaretheStare said:


> Nah, I don't think you have to be actively seeking one. I think you find one either way, but there are too many obstacles in the way of you being together...unless you both agree to rid yourselves of them that is.


I mean, yeah, you would _meet_ at least one of your duals. But that doesn't mean you're going to end up in a relationship, or even befriend them. You'd have to know what you're looking for.

Before socionics, my "ideal partner" would have been an EIE. I wanted someone caring, energetic and witty. But I know I can find all of those things in an SLE - at least now.


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## isuma (Aug 10, 2015)

I haven't read all the replies yet. I've been in a kind of unbalanced duality myself for the past two years. But in my case, other factors explain why it's different for me than it is for him. He's 20 years younger than I am and is in a totally different stage of his life. What I'm looking for in a relationship is different from what he is looking for. I won't go into all the details of that right now.

Not only that, but I really believe there is a major imbalance in the numbers of types in the population. I believe my own type is common, while my dual's is scarce. They're able to pick whoever they want, and if they don't like that person, find someone else easily, whereas I have to tolerate a *lot* of imperfections due to the extreme shortage of duals. 

So the person who has more 'bargaining power' and knowledge of their own scarcity is able to be as sloppy as they want to be, while demanding that their partners meet very high standards, causing an unequal, imbalanced relationship.


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## counterintuitive (Apr 8, 2011)

isuma said:


> Not only that, but I really believe there is a major imbalance in the numbers of types in the population. I believe my own type is common, while my dual's is scarce. They're able to pick whoever they want, and if they don't like that person, find someone else easily, whereas I have to tolerate a *lot* of imperfections due to the extreme shortage of duals.


This is an interesting perspective! Supply and demand I suppose. Thanks for posting.

Something I've noticed, just going about my life (not statistically verified), is that there are about twice as many Ne/Si valuers as Se/Ni valuers in the population. And I've observed as well that most of the former group (Ne/Si valuers) are Si egos, not Ne egos, which lines up with what you wrote. IOW, Ne egos have a lot of duals, activators, semiduals, benefactors out there-- while Si egos have comparatively fewer Ne egos to pair up with. Which is the situation you described.

You know what ancient societies did when the woman:man ratio became unbalanced? Polygamy, of course! So I recommend that each Ne ego find multiple Si egos. Prepare to share! :tongue: (Lol, sorry, couldn't resist. :crazy

Have you noticed any imbalance on ratio of Ti/Fe valuers to Fi/Te valuers? I haven't, personally - IME it's pretty balanced - but I wonder if anyone else has picked up on this kind of population ratio stuff. It probably also differs based on location (country/region/etc).


Something else I've been thinking about... :crazy:

I think most everyday tasks center around S and T elements. So in a committed relationship/marriage where the couple lives their everyday lives together, perhaps intuitives need sensoric duals more than sensorics need intuitive duals, and likewise, perhaps ethicians need logical duals more than logicians need ethical duals. This goes only for practical, everyday tasks, though-- not personal growth necessarily. I could see for instance an LSE-SLI mirror couple getting through their everyday lives without many issues arising from their types alone. Compared to for instance an IEE-EII mirror couple, who would probably struggle more in areas of everyday practicality due to weak T and S elements. Perhaps the IEE would feel more pressure on their Te/Se and the EII more pressure on their Si/Ti to compensate for the other's even more pronounced deficiency in those IEs.

I'm very likely a logician myself and were I to partner up with another logician, I could see us having far fewer problems getting through our everyday lives than for instance an IEE-SEI semidual couple who, while balancing out on Si/Ne, would still be together weak on T elements, perhaps leading to increased pressure on the IEE's Te and the SEI's Ti.

But perhaps I just live in a society that overall devalues N and F. Tbh, I'm not sure I would have noticed I was lacking in F elements if I hadn't gotten into typology, because society as a whole never pushed me in that direction.


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## ParetoCaretheStare (Jan 18, 2012)

counterintuitive said:


> This is an interesting perspective! Supply and demand I suppose. Thanks for posting.
> 
> Something I've noticed, just going about my life (not statistically verified), is that there are about twice as many Ne/Si valuers as Se/Ni valuers in the population. And I've observed as well that most of the former group (Ne/Si valuers) are Si egos, not Ne egos, which lines up with what you wrote. IOW, Ne egos have a lot of duals, activators, semiduals, benefactors out there-- while Si egos have comparatively fewer Ne egos to pair up with. Which is the situation you described.
> 
> ...


An LSE would not be able to prolong a relationship with an SLI for the simple fact that LSEs need their partners when they need them, which is a lot of the time and SLIs just can't up to par with that strong need to be close, very close, and focused. SLI is irrational; imagine an LSE trying to make the SLI actually understand without jumping to conclusions.


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