# INTP vs INTJ. What is Ni?



## Emerl98 (May 10, 2016)

Mothtodark said:


> @Emerl98
> I put parts in bold that seemed to specifically reply to your post, because of the problem with tl;dr
> 
> *Well sure, I think any type can give off any impression depending on what happens. As far as the functions being accompanied, you've got the general idea, but I was using that as an example to help you eliminate any possibilities of types you might be, so that you can cross those functions off your list. For example if youre confused about whether you use Ni or Ne you should look at the types that use them and see what is paired with it, if it is more likely you use another combination as they are paired, then I would go with that type as your preferred state.*
> ...


Thanks, I think I am an INTP. I seem to be able to track back pretty well when I have a eureka moment. I also don't like being sidetracked when I thinking about an answer. Especially if I am close to the solution. I also like to gather lots of data externally, proving that I have Ne.

Thanks for the help, your replies were very insightful. Which book are you ordering btw? I want to learn more about cognitive functions.


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## Clayfighter (Jun 21, 2016)

Psychological types


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## IcyDapper (Jul 23, 2016)

@Emerl98
My apologies, I suppose I lacked something that you had! Since I'm an ESTJ, we have a bit of different personality, but I'm glad that you were passionate to find your identity. I was in your shoes not too long ago, I thought I was INTP, and I just couldn't stop pursuing my identity. Along the way, I acquired a lot of knowledge that I never thought of, which is why asking 1 question can open to many doors. 

So you're an INTP.
-Autonomous
-Accepted
-Ingenious
You're an architect, a scientist whose thirsty for knowledge, a creator, and a Doer. You're an Eagle.


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## Clayfighter (Jun 21, 2016)

Emerl98 said:


> But evidence does not equal proof. Which is why I count atheism as a religion. Its just faith in man rather than God.


That hurt my feelings, im never going to help you defend INTP as your type in a forum ever again!!! lol jk 

What if you're a misanthropic nihilistic atheist? Would you still consider them to have faith in man? If all those labels are not mutually exclusive then your premise is invalid.

Sorry, I just saw that and had to poke fun.


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## Emerl98 (May 10, 2016)

IcyDapper said:


> @Emerl98
> My apologies, I suppose I lacked something that you had! Since I'm an ESTJ, we have a bit of different personality, but I'm glad that you were passionate to find your identity. I was in your shoes not too long ago, I thought I was INTP, and I just couldn't stop pursuing my identity. Along the way, I acquired a lot of knowledge that I never thought of, which is why asking 1 question can open to many doors.
> 
> So you're an INTP.
> ...


When people ask me what animal I would describe myself as, I usually say eagle coincidentally.

How did you get from INTP to ESFJ?



Mothtodark said:


> That hurt my feelings, im never going to help you defend INTP as your type in a forum ever again!!! lol jk
> 
> What if you're a misanthropic nihilistic atheist? Would you still consider them to have faith in man? If all those labels are not mutually exclusive then your premise is invalid.
> 
> Sorry, I just saw that and had to poke fun.


Lol, as long as you are living you will still have to believe in some form of law or principle to be able to live. So the question is, can one ever truly be nihilistic? Just a few thoughts that popped up lol.


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## Clayfighter (Jun 21, 2016)

Emerl98 said:


> Lol, as long as you are living you will still have to believe in some form of law or principle to be able to live. So the question is, can one ever truly be nihilistic? Just a few thoughts that popped up lol.


You can believe something regardless of if it is self-defeating.

People believe in foundational beliefs to solve the regress problem. Which is essentially self defeating circular reasoning. If I said I was an epistemic nihilist, id probably have to admit theres a chance im wrong due to the fact that that there are no epistemic truths, so how would I even know that? Well first of all its not necessarily a truth its the dismissal of a claim to truth. We can falsify ideas all day, but that doesnt mean we have the tools to prove anything. However it is a logical fallacy to dismiss logic because of the arguers properties, the argument is still either objectively true or false regardless of who presents it. You could then ask me how I know its a logical fallacy and then Id say, you tell me its your system. 

So even if my mind is flawed, I still know that it has a fair degree of utility, I just have to take the world with a grain of salt. You dont have to be nihilistic towards every branch of philosophy to be a nihilist though. In fact you could just be a simple skeptic and it wouldnt make sense, because A skeptic doubts at least some human knowledge or how we can acquire it.


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## IcyDapper (Jul 23, 2016)

Emerl98 said:


> When people ask me what animal I would describe myself as, I usually say eagle coincidentally.
> 
> How did you get from INTP to ESFJ?


You mean ESTJ? It took many years to come to that conclusion, so I will give you the short version. When I'm in a social environment, or a lot of people in one setting, I get energized and most of my family are the opposite, so I sensed that I was an E not an I. I focus on the present, rather than the future possibilities, so I concluded that I was a S. I'm a competitive person and my decisions are based on logic over emotions, and I get pretty tempered pretty quick. Also, I don't know how to relax, or at least it's difficult. So right there and then, I was a T. Final but not least, I was a J since I like to be things organized and scheduled, rather than on the flow. 

I'm the Bull (ESTJ), which perfectly describes me since I have an intense anger and I'm difficult to relax. 
-Resolute
-Dependable
-Respectable
The administrator, I'm a controller, or the executive.


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## Convex (Jan 5, 2015)

Emerl98 said:


> I doubt using religion as a way to tell my mbti type is very reliable.


It isn't, I was just interested in your rationalizations.


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## Emerl98 (May 10, 2016)

Mothtodark said:


> Emerl98 said:
> 
> 
> > Lol, as long as you are living you will still have to believe in some form of law or principle to be able to live. So the question is, can one ever truly be nihilistic? Just a few thoughts that popped up lol.
> ...


I didn't mean belief in that way. Nihilism in itself is a belief. So one cannot truly be nihilistic. I agree that one cannot be nihilistic towards every branch of philosophy. But one must be to be truly nihilistic. That was the basis of my question.


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## Clayfighter (Jun 21, 2016)

Emerl98 said:


> I didn't mean belief in that way. Nihilism in itself is a belief. So one cannot truly be nihilistic. I agree that one cannot be nihilistic towards every branch of philosophy. But one must be to be truly nihilistic. That was the basis of my question.


Well that is not really what I was saying at all so im not sure where you are confused. Im describing the infinite regress problem that all foundational beliefs face,(and knowledge faces in general) foundational beliefs are what attempt to stop the regress to nihilism nihilism as a belief. 

Im also explaining how they can hold a self-defeating philosophy at times, by arguing against the regress problem to how we can hold any beliefs at all about knowledge. If I argue against knowledge being reliable and I succeed....then that in and of itself justifies nihilism. Because even if nihilism is self-defeating because some objective logic is determined invalid by extension of the belief itself. Or that our minds are unreliable because of nihilisms conclusion, it doesnt actually harm nihilism in the way you think it would. 

One must not believe every form of nihilism in order to be a nihilist. Do people have to hold libertarian ideas of free will while holding compatibilist beliefs about free will at the same time? They cant cause they're mutually exclusive. Its not the same thing exactly with the different types of nihilism, but nihilism answers different questions across the board. They really arent the same type of belief at all. There are people that hold the position of epistemic nihilism which do not have to hold the other beliefs of nihilism. I actually hold most of them but not all of them.

*Besides its not your point to make because my original tounge in cheek joke was referring to nihilism in the epistemic sense. an epistemic nihilist would have no faith in man or mans knowledge. That is the specific branch of philosophy that this form of nihilism would contradict that postive belief "faith in man" Thats why my point was that a nihilistic atheist would not have faith in man, so how could he be an atheist still? It proves that faith in man has nothing to do with atheism by extension of the logical priniciple. If it did have something to do with faith in man, they would have to choose atheism or nihilism.
*
*Or we dont even have to use nihilism as an example. We could just use misanthropy which is distrusting mankind.
*
*But to answer specifically to what you asked there, my point is a nihilist can argue with values other than his own for purposes of arguing against a persons worldview, they're forced to use it because its what they made up and are going to stick within that paradigm regardless of what the nihilist says. The nihilist is truly nihilistic regardless of his actions, whether it is how they used logic in the argument, or if you think they're not a nihilist, because they value their life and did not decide to kill themselves, it doesnt really matter....He could make seemingly moral choices and still be a nihilist.

All it requires is the brain to believe it is true for it to be a possible belief. I dont know if you're claiming its impossible to be a nihilist or something, but its not, the brain does not force itself to disbelieve it, it actually believes it. The Nihilists mind does however also **believe in values that are meaningless to everyone but him. they would assign meaning to them, but its just a point of reference, its not actual meaning. The meaning assigned is about as robust as choosing for personal preference due to natural predisposition and without universal and objective reason.*

Now if you still think the core of the issue is being missed, You might have to rephrase your question in the context of how you understand the dialogue flowing and where the problem is with an example. But honestly I think you're missing a few of my implicit deductions and points from my words so that is what is causing the confusion. I guess I dont know how old you are, or at least I had forgotten, but sometimes I just see intp by someones username and assume they will know what I mean lol. But then again I didnt research any of this stuff until I was probably 20.

If you want to know something about how my logic is flowing/philosophy or want to continue engaging me in any format of discussion we can either start a new thread or you can message me. I just dont want to pollute up a thread with unrelated discussion. 

A few exchanges is ok, but I dont want to irritate anyone and keep it going.


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## Zelz (Dec 29, 2014)

Emerl98 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I had always thought of myself as an INTP, until I learnt about cognitive functions and their ordering. And when I look at them for an INTP, they seem to be out of place. I do believe that I use all of the functions that an INTP would use, however, I believe that I use some other functions more.
> 
> ...



Ni users are hit with abstractions in their mind. Interpretation of these abstractions yield solution(s). Te (in INTJ) use research to back up hunches to solve a problem. 

Ti asks "what is." What is available to come to a solution. Ti solutions may not be the one true solution because their solution is highly subjective, thus not commonly universal.


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## Emerl98 (May 10, 2016)

Mothtodark said:


> Emerl98 said:
> 
> 
> > I didn't mean belief in that way. Nihilism in itself is a belief. So one cannot truly be nihilistic. I agree that one cannot be nihilistic towards every branch of philosophy. But one must be to be truly nihilistic. That was the basis of my question.
> ...



I didn't read your comment properly the first time and after rereading it I see that I completely had the wrong idea.


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