# N's communicating with S's



## Sirindu (May 12, 2010)

Hey all.  Recently I've really been struck by the fact that I have a very, very strong iNtuitive preference. So much so that I am convinced I really just don't understand Sensing types adequately at all. During/after a conversation with an S type, I generally get a distinct feeling that I live in a completely different plane of existence. It's very frustrating for a person who really wants to be able to make deep connections with everyone. 

I suppose I may never quite be able to do _that_ with Sensing types, but in order to better understand them I would love to be given some suggestions as to _how iNtuitives can effectively communicate with Sensing types._ Or, if you would prefer, you could try to help me understand the big picture of how Sensing types wish to communicate and what they expect from interaction.  

Thanks! Hope this stimulates some interesting conversation for everyone.


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## Lucretius (Sep 10, 2009)

I can definitely relate.
There are several S's in my family, and I always have a sense that we will never really understand each other.


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## Xplosive (Mar 4, 2010)

Basically, sensors tend to talk simple, literal and direct fashion about facts and specifics mostly, which is generally the opposite to intuitors.

I would recommend checking out The Art of Speed Reading People - there's some very good advice about the different and preferred communication styles for the various personality preferences, temperaments and types.


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## Functianalyst (Jul 23, 2009)

I have to agree with Xplosive, except along with Keirsey’s PUM II, the Tiegers’ collection was a big waste of money. Their theory, like Otto Kroeger, is a hybrid of temperament and mbti. Nevertheless I notice this topic comes up quite often with intuiting types, but when you ask for specific examples, they find it arduous. I have just as hard a time communicating with other sensing types as I do intuiting types, and I am still waiting for someone to explain why people consider S/N communicating harder than T/F. 

When similar conversations come up I have learned not to take anything for granted, so will ask basic, but what sometimes sounds redundant, questions up front. If someone alludes to a particular type, I ask has that type been confirmed by the user or is this the OP’s reading of the person. I ask for specific examples generally for the sake of the audience to realize how prejudicial some topics can be and simply are not type related. But more importantly when I notice someone spewing out rigid and unfounded statements, I have to ask whether this is an opinion or is it factual. 

NTPs seem to know they’re speculating theory, but may not admit it until deep into a discussion. They will go on tangents until you remove enough avenues to corner them into debating facts. I find INJs and ISJs are notorious for stating their opinions as facts. This is generally noticeable up front, so can easily be diffused in asking them for facts. ENTJs, ENFJs and INFPs seem the only types (outside of STPs for me) that I feel comfortable in their information being accurate and factual to proceed in communicating. My experience with unmentioned types has been too limiting to make conclusion.


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## thehigher (Apr 20, 2009)

> *N's communicating with S's*


all I have to say is....



lol


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## Siggy (May 25, 2009)

How about hiring an interpreter?

Other than that avoid using analogies, metaphors. Speak in very precise and concrete terms. and stay on topic.


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## Narrator (Oct 11, 2009)

I don't think the intuitives I know have that much trouble communicating with me . If they do I'm yet to hear. I'll see what they think and come back with suggestions at some point.

I had one INxP friend who seemed to prefer darker subjects, and I have a possibly INTJ friend who seems to like to talk about society, philosophy and spirituality, my more SFish friends lighter subjects, but other than that there's not that much difference.

Although the possible INTJ can drift off sometimes :laughing: and come back in with 'what?', and gets a tad confused when I'm not so specific, but his type is not certain. Actually an ISFP friend does that when we're talking of...I'm not sure...gaming...future plans...internet stuff, and I do occasionally with my family when they're talking about celebrity culture and the news.

I can have trouble communication with an ENFP occasionally, when talking about how to deal with people she doesn't like, or has been hurt by, but I think that's more about our approaches to it principally.


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## Functianalyst (Jul 23, 2009)

Dear Sigmund said:


> How about hiring an interpreter?
> 
> Other than that avoid using analogies, metaphors. Speak in very precise and concrete terms. and stay on topic.


I personally have no problems with analogies and metaphors. Based on my discussions with other SPs, they are okay with that as well. So the discussion can be abstract, but Sigmund raises another point that intuiting types in general (not all of them), find it hard to stay on topic, esepcially NTPs and ENFPs. But this topic in my opinion, is laced with some prejudices and assumptions based on people's understanding of type principles.


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## zynthaxx (Aug 12, 2009)

I'm on functianalyst's side here: I've met INTPs who have a harder time following metaphors and analogies than what I do. 
To communicate effectively with me, just make sure I can relate to or apply the subject in some way. What I can't use is useless to me - it's right there in the definition of the word.


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## WMDistraction (Dec 23, 2009)

Now my thread in the ISTP section is officially rendered as redundant. Oh well. More threads to subscribe to!  (More importantly, more viewpoints!)


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## NeedsNewNameNow (Dec 1, 2009)

zynthaxx said:


> I'm on functianalyst's side here: I've met INTPs who have a harder time following metaphors and analogies than what I do.
> To communicate effectively with me, just make sure I can relate to or apply the subject in some way. *What I can't use is useless to me - it's right there in the definition of the word*.


I think the bolded part may be one of the reasons for communications trouble. Not to pick on zynthaxx. But I've run into that with alot of S's-- They don't get what I'm trying to say, see it as useless, meaningless. While I'm struggling to phrase it in a way that might make more sense. 

But also if someone tends to reject what I tell them as useless, meaningless, unhelpful, etc. that usually make my desire to communicate with them go way down.


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## Functianalyst (Jul 23, 2009)

unleashthehounds said:


> I think the bolded part may be one of the reasons for communications trouble. Not to pick on zynthaxx. But I've run into that with alot of S's-- They don't get what I'm trying to say, see it as useless, meaningless. While I'm struggling to phrase it in a way that might make more sense.
> 
> But also if someone tends to reject what I tell them as useless, meaningless, unhelpful, etc. that usually make my desire to communicate with them go way down.


Except Te users, in particularly Ni-Te users want to apply information. Besides what Zynthaxx said does not mean he can’t communicate with intuiting types. On the contrary, he said that he prefers the subject to be something he can relate to and more importantly apply. We read and talk in an abstract manner all of the time, we loathe discussing something that we find useless and of no interest.


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## Sirindu (May 12, 2010)

Azrael said:


> I can definitely relate.
> There are several S's in my family, and I always have a sense that we will never really understand each other.


Same here. My father is an ESTJ and for most of my life we really struggled to connect. We could connect over surface things such as common interests in music and film but I still haven't figured out how to establish a meaningful connection through those things, or even how to understand what they mean to him.



WMDistraction said:


> Now my thread in the ISTP section is officially rendered as redundant. Oh well. More threads to subscribe to!  (More importantly, more viewpoints!)


I read over your thread and the question you bring up in your most recent post is very much the same as mine (though for very different reasons). How do I help make conversation meaningful for both of us?



Functianalyst said:


> I personally have no problems with analogies and metaphors. Based on my discussions with other SPs, they are okay with that as well...
> 
> ...Te users, in particularly Ni-Te users want to apply information...
> 
> We read and talk in an abstract manner all of the time, we loathe discussing something that we find useless and of no interest.


Thanks for your posts, Functianalyst! I've really appreciated your thoughts. So, is it possible that this conflict many iNtuitive types (or NFs, specifically) have experienced in relating/conversing with others is really tied to the differences between Thinking and Feeling types? I have not known very many SF's. I've recently become good friends with one, however, and it shocked me that this was possible (though our friendship was very rocky at first). Most, if not practically all, of the Sensing types I have known were also Te or Ti users. Perhaps I've mistakenly begun to let that interfere with my understanding of the Sensing function.


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## Functianalyst (Jul 23, 2009)

Sirindu said:


> Thanks for your posts, Functianalyst! I've really appreciated your thoughts. So, is it possible that this conflict many iNtuitive types (or NFs, specifically) have experienced in relating/conversing with others is really tied to the differences between Thinking and Feeling types? I have not known very many SF's. I've recently become good friends with one, however, and it shocked me that this was possible (though our friendship was very rocky at first). Most, if not practically all, of the Sensing types I have known were also Te or Ti users. Perhaps I've mistakenly begun to let that interfere with my understanding of the Sensing function.


You're welcome. I only threw T/F out as an argument to dismiss the notion that it's S/N. Personally, I don't think that the communication is type related. Instead it goes to mispercetions and prejudices, and a refusal to listen or understand the other person. Ergo I think people are admitting that they have very poor conflict management skills when they attempt to justify lack of communication, especially due to functions. It's no different than someone claiming the inability to communicate due to gender, race, ethnicity, etc.


unleashthehounds said:


> Ne can combine seemingly unconnected ideas and appear very random.
> 
> One frequent comment I get from others when I use Ne is "How did you ever come up with that?"


I think this is the point being made, that we generally only consider Ne as that. There are a lot of people at ENTP.ORG who would be incensed of people believing random thoughts is all their dominant function is good for. Again the descriptions of Ne do entail more than making inferences, implications and weaving threads of meaning. It's an extraverted perceiving function which means it takes in information, it's experiential and wholistic, and more importantly it has use of the senses.


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## zynthaxx (Aug 12, 2009)

unleashthehounds said:


> I think the bolded part may be one of the reasons for communications trouble. Not to pick on zynthaxx. But I've run into that with alot of S's-- They don't get what I'm trying to say, see it as useless, meaningless. While I'm struggling to phrase it in a way that might make more sense.
> 
> But also if someone tends to reject what I tell them as useless, meaningless, unhelpful, etc. that usually make my desire to communicate with them go way down.


I don't feel picked on; I'm just saying that, as Functianalyst said, I have absolutely no problem at all communicating with iNtuitives per se. I just wanted to state that a lack of understanding of metaphors, or not being able to grasp concepts that aren't concrete here and now, is not what having Sensing functions is about. 
Understanding isn't the problem, but when things aren't applicable, when we don't see how we could use the information we've been given in a productive way, we simply mark it as "boring" to a greater or lesser extent. Note that some S types are more likely to gather seemingly useless data - that's probably one reason why ISTPs tend to function OK with INTP and INTJ types, at least as long as there's a common denominator in interests, and why they can even appear to be nerds/geeks to people who don't know them.

In short, I have a much harder time understanding the thought process of immature ESFPs and INFPs ("how did she arrive at _that_ conclusion?") than I have understanding old Einstein and the practical application of his theories or his metaphors for them.


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## Linesky (Dec 10, 2008)

I have no problem communicating with S's.
I have more problems with the T-F difference actually.  Well especially if not mostly in times of conflict. Cos the emphasis on things and approach to things differs a lot here. But again that depends on the individual mostly, not their type or my type.

But hm... I did notice that S's often say I "talk abstract" a lot. But it's not like it bothers them. Some appreciate it for being 'deep'.
I also noticed sometimes I get impatient with their detailed small talk. But again, it's not like I make a big deal out of it. I actually think it's cute when I'm in a normal mood. 
[These are just specific examples I used which occured between me and a friend who is likely to be an S type. There are plenty of exceptions and I only generalized for the sake of this thread... =/ I don't really view them as types I just view them as people and I appreciate them for that despite there being differences. Typology is merely a supportive framework for understanding.]

So... I don't really relate... I think your real problem may be tolerance, actually. And endurance. And some confidence. 

If you're open enough to communicate, explain your side, listen to the other side, I'm sure you'll reach a consensus. 

You don't have to be the same person in order to get along.

Also... It sounds like you feel a bit alienated. Maybe you shouldn't focus so much on your own differences and just view them as your own personal, sometimes contributing, traits or assets. 

And if you feel like you want to get to know more people who "understand" your interests then there are plenty of options available. There are hobbies, there's the net, and there will always be new people as long as you reach out to it. People Will understand. And everybody has their own way of viewing reality.


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## Halfjillhalfjack (Sep 23, 2009)

Sirindu said:


> Same here. My father is an ESTJ and for most of my life we really struggled to connect. We could connect over surface things such as common interests in music and film but I still haven't figured out how to establish a meaningful connection through those things, or even how to understand what they mean to him.


My father is an ESTJ as well, and I am an INFJ...... I can really really relate to what you're saying, I have a hard time communicating with him, but I think it's due to his Te-approach vs. my Ni-approach, and not so much due to a S/N-difference.... he is very rigid at times, and that makes me aagrhrh. but, the thing is, I think he has also developed some introverted functions.....Si, and I even think his inferior Fi....when he got older. I mean, he gets older. And also his Ne. And THIS has changed his perspective on life...... His Te-approach usually made him only believe in what he sees, what can be applied, what WORKS (he is a medical doctor)....which is opposed to my approach to life. But in the last time, he has started to consider my point of views, especially in connection with my thesis (on trangsression of gender in the novels of a contemporary english writer). and.... this whole gender transgression thing is acutally something would never consider if he used Te only.... I think you have to take on a different viewpoint in order to see some "worth" in it, because it isn't "proveable" in the "real" world....but by now, he somehow sees how it can be meaningful for society to re-consider certain categories. Sorry for rambling....I just wanted to say that I think it IS possible to communicate with types who are diamtrically opposed to your dominat approach, and they can sometimes learn from you (even if you are daughter/son and they are parent)...... And I have noticed that it is possible to share similar experiences with different types, even if you perceive them in a different fashion...... you can exchange how you perceive them differently, but still have the basic experiences in common. hard to describe....but I think such an exchange can be really worthwhile and help one grow, even much more than communicating with people who are very similar to oneself....
sorry for rambling.....


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## Mutatio NOmenis (Jun 22, 2009)

This is what I feel like I have to do to get my point across to sensors.





 
Regardless, it seems to come out like this to them.


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## firedell (Aug 5, 2009)

People's perception of sensors needs to be changed.


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## zynthaxx (Aug 12, 2009)

Mutatio NOmenis said:


> This is what I feel like I have to do to get my point across to sensors.


I think I know where you fail. Ever tried herding cats?


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