# Would like some advice (or at least mirroring) about job issues



## firegrace (Sep 7, 2014)

Hey there, so I'm going to free-write this and try not to edit it as much as possible so this will be like stream of consciousness. So the issue I am dealing with here is I fucking hate my job right now. I like the people I work with but I hate what I am doing. I am working for a marketing agency. And really, half of the problem is I feel like I am stuck in a negative cycle in my mind, like I am only focused on the negative of my job. But I also want to address the negative. I don't want to just be like "Oh there are some good things so no need to worry about the negative." 

The reason why I hate my job right now is because my "leaders", the owner of the company and my manager, both are immediately dismissive of any idea I submit to fix problems permanently. Two specific examples: (by the way, only been here 2 months) 

1 - During my training, I was sitting in on a Client Onboarding Call, and the Client was a very results oriented person (I worked 6 years in another marketing agency for a results oriented boss/owner, learned a ton on how to deal successfully with them), and the way we onboard Clients is very Our Company focused, all about who we are, what we've done so far.... pretty much everything except about what the Client wants and how we're going to help them get it. That part is relegated to the very end, 5-10 minutes at the end of an hour long call. So that Client (ex-client now, they terminated) got upset and said "I don't care about any of this. How are you going to help me get sales?" And things happened, things escalated, and both the Client and the other Account Manager (who was running the call, who I was half being trained by) both raised their voices in anger. What are we? Fucking children? Very annoying. 

So I said "What if we changed the call focus to "Your Goals and how we're going to help you achieve them, and also what you need to know, and what you need to do (as the Client)" , and they said they didn't need to do that. Now another Client has left (about to talk about that in a second) because as a company we're not focused on the Client's needs/wants, we're focused more internally on us and what we've done. It's disorganized in terms of priorities from the Client's side. They want to "talk over" the Client, essentially confuse them with jargon, fill the call with fluff.

2 - That same Account Manager fumbled a Client Account and that Client was passed to me. After 2 months, nothing happened on the Client account. Only a few deliverables were given to them. Anyway, after the Client was passed to me, what they were sold and what they got was vastly different, and the Client expectations and deliverables were mismatched. Anyway, I said "It'd be nice to be crystal clear about what the Client will get and what I/we need to do to fulfill on that." They said "No, we don't need to change our core system here." 

Well, now that Client has left. We haven't gotten a new Client in like a month and a half. Oh, also, since I have a decent amount of experience in lead generation and marketing, they said "Give us some ideas on how we can generate more leads and Clients for us." So I did, and the owner said "Oh, well that's easy to say. But what about the obstacles?" Bro! WHAT ABOUT THEM? Do you see how many other companies generate leads and sales and clients for themselves? It blows my mind.

And I'm ashamed to say I'm not really motivated to "prove them wrong". Fuck 'em as far as I'm concerned. In my short 7 year career I haven't had to deal with unbelief in getting things done or not being supported in projects to solve problems, basically saying "Don't worry about solving the problems." I have been encouraged to innovate in the past 2 companies I worked with. (Both I have left on good terms with and am proud of my contribution and feel good about leaving with a System in place that is independent of me and my talent, or anyone's for that matter.) 

I'm not really motivated to do much of anything for this company. I am doing the bare minimum not to get fired right now and that's not who I am. I am excellence driven. I have been excellent in my contribution up to this point. I feel like I am wasting their time and my time. I feel like I am walking on eggshells, like I can't make a suggestion. 

I was actually banned from the #brainstorm channel in Slack because I was putting too much pressure on the System. I have made mistakes too. Turns out one of my blind spots is I can come across as too intense when trying to solve problems or I push too hard in solving problems. But I don't feel like I did anything wrong. I had to swallow my pride and just be silent, even though there are tons of issues to solve and that's what I'm good at and what I like to do.

They act like they don't have any problems, no need to address the negative. In fact, a big red flag to me on one of the first meetings I was on was the Sales Manager came on and said (I'm capitalizing it, but he said it in a normal tone) "I DONT WANT TO REPORT ON MY NUMBERS BECAUSE THEYRE BAD." WHAT! THE FUCK? Really? Yeah, let's just hide from the bad things. That'll solve them. 

And the organization is terrible. Too much fluff. Important information is strewn everywhere in 3-4 different places. To get up to date on a Client Account, it takes like 10-15 minutes. When I said "We should have a dashboard or a single place where we can access all important information for Clients quickly" same deal, they said "We don't really need to change our core systems. Did you do some digging?" IM TRYING TO PREVENT MYSELF FROM HAVING TO FUCKING DIG! 

I joined this company because they're headline on their site was "BREAKING THE STATUS QUO" I'm about that! Yes! Let's innovate. Let's improve. Let's solve problems PERMANENTLY through a System. 

But I realize it's the owner's company and he can do what he wants with it. I'm not a long term fit here unless something radical changes.

And it's not like I'm just some random suggesting new ideas out of nowhere. I've had two significant successes in both of the companies I worked with, relatively speaking, in terms of lead generation/marketing through SEO and Social Media, as well as Management/Leadership of a Team. I don't want to have to depend or rely on people's talent or their truthfulness or their organizational skills or their time management skills or anything like that. I want the System to mitigate any potential weaknesses. But in this company I feel like I have no support from the management/leadership or the System, or lack thereof. 

I guess that's it. I can just leave, I know. I'm going to. I want to try and salvage this if I can because they really are good people, I really like them. But I also feel like they're talkers behind people's back. That same sales manager "tattled" on me to my manager one of the first days I came on board because I didn't wear a collard shirt on a client call, I forgot honestly, I made that mistake, but he didn't address it with me? What the heck? 

When I was banned from the brainstorm channel it was because the ideas I was suggesting were "impossible or would take too much work and people are feeling obligated to work on them or respond" ... ITS A FUCKING BRAINSTORM CHANNEL. There are no bad ideas in brainstorming. I didn't ask anyone to do anything. I made my case for the ideas supported by painful problems, like the Clients leaving, Clients raising their voices in anger, Clients upset over expectations, Account Managers not getting deliverables to Clients in a timely fashion because of unclear expectations, etc. I feel like they know that what I am suggesting is the right thing to do/best thing, but they're upset they didn't think of it, or they're upset because I am pointing out flaws in their system, that I am "calling their baby ugly." 

Could I have done things better/differently? Absolutely. I am learning plenty of valuable lessons and I am going to implement them as I move forward. 

Phew. I feel a little bit better now that I got this out of my system and I have clarified why I am feeling upset. 

I am displeased with myself because I haven't yet been able to overcome my anger toward them and contribute excellence regardless of how I am feeling. They're getting the bare minimum effort from me. That's not me. I am sad about that. I am giving the bare minimum effort because I am angry with them. I feel childish because of that. I haven't experience this before. I am going to learn my lesson from this and change and evolve. It is fucking horrible going through this now. 

I even decided to go to a therapist/counselor because of this. I've been twice so far in the past 2 weeks. I'll continue to go. 

I need to get back to doing jiu jitsu and hanging out with my friends and not being so wrapped up in my work. But my work is important to me! I want to make a big impact. I feel like I am being stifled here. They don't really want to improve. Or they only want to improve if it's from them (I'm remote in one state, they're remote in another state far away). It's clique ish. 

Now that I've free written a lot of this out I am going to type up a much calmer version of this and talk with my manager about it next week and see if we can move forward together. If not, I'm going to be out of here.

Oh, also, those clients that left. They were sent to collections and lawyers got involved. That's the solution to all client problems (4 so far, so not all of them, that's hyperbole) - just send them to collections. No, let's don't work it out. Let's litigate! Let's get lawyers involved! No, we can't discuss this like adults. LITIGATION IS THE ANSWER. Fucking hell. 

Yes, I'm angry. I'm sad this is happening. I can't wait until it's over.

What lesson do I need to learn here? What do you see from an outside perspective? Thanks for any and all input.


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## islandlight (Aug 13, 2013)

No wonder you're just doing the minimum. When you do your best you just hit roadblocks. Sounds pretty hopeless to me. But if you calmly present your case in writing and in person, as you suggest, at least you'll know you've done everything you could. Good luck!


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## impulsenine (Oct 18, 2020)

Everything is so simple in this case.

So first of all:



firegrace said:


> I like the people I work with but I hate what I am doing.


No.
You don't like the people you work with. Basically you ranted in the following paragraphs about how bad the people you're working with are. You seem to like just clients, not coworkers.



firegrace said:


> What lesson do I need to learn here? What do you see from an outside perspective? Thanks for any and all input.


You definitely need to leave the company, for sure. Find a better one. There isn't much compatibility between you and them at this moment.

Lessons to learn?
1. The most important thing when it comes to workplace is people you're working with. If you/or any employee isn't satisfied with this aspect, he'll be less productive and motivated and => bad results.
2. It doesn't worth it to try to change bad people. If they are bad, leave them and find good people. It can be a waste of resources (energy, time, wellbeing) to try to change people.
3. Bad companies exist and bad leaders exist and it still works that way until it no longer works. It's up to you how much energy you're putting into it.
4. If you hate what you do and where you do, there is no reason to remain there.

I also had cases in which I had (major) misunderstandings with leaders or business owners.
I always allowed myself to behave arrogantly with them because I never had anything to lose, I brought them to the ground, I was not directed to maintain the status quo.

What can you do? Many.

It depends on what interests you and how much harm you want to do.

You can "share" the weaknesses of your company with the main competitors and they can take advantage of this, you can go to a competing company that treats you better and ... you steal the clients of your former company, you can report all the irregularities (if any) to all competent authorities, to come under control and apply sanctions for everything.

Or you can simply punch your boss in the mouth (but without witnesses and videocameras around) immediately after you resign and then live your life happily. 

And then still steal all of their clients.

Good luck, your future isn't in that company! Trust me.


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## littlewyng (Sep 17, 2020)

Yeah get out of there- trying to work it out is going to frustrated you further I think. Plus right now everyone is desperate to hire skilled people, and you can negotiate work from home and all kinds of fun things. Might as well take advantage of it. And if you know that quickly that it's a bad fit- it's going to get worse. They are following the worst sales strategy ever- clients dont care about you, they care about themselves. And clients leaving is a bad sign. AND the company may seem like they are nice people- but they don't care about you. 

Follow your gut.


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## mia-me (Feb 5, 2021)

Overpromise, underdeliver companies don't have a long shelf life. It's time to move on.


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## greyskies01 (Aug 23, 2018)

I can relate to feeling shame in not being motivated to change things and in only doing the minimum. I am in a similar position and realized I was getting tunnel vision and losing my confidence/optimism. 

It seems as if you were already aggressive in trying to change your situation there. The longer you stay, the more prone you are to spiraling further into self-doubt and flopping between dramatic outbursts and ennui. 

Cutting your loses might be your best bet. With only 7 years of experience, you still have the majority of your working life ahead of you. I stopped focusing on the next optimal move. The perfect transition. Now I want out even if it is a lateral move. This has freed my brain from stressing out about how everything needs to be perfect in order for me to leave. Also, now I know what to avoid and questions to ask to hedge myself against ending up in a similar position again.


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## firegrace (Sep 7, 2014)

As an update as of today at 330p eastern, because the company has lost so many clients and monthly recurring revenue is down like 50% they had to let me go. Thank God. I am so relieved. 

I learned some very valuable lessons to implement for my next career/business move that I will edit in after I've had time to think through them all. 

Thanks for the advice everyone.


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## Negotiator (Mar 15, 2018)

I know how you feel. The good news is that you sound driven and capable of really shaking the status quo, and believe me, many companies are after that. 

Start interviewing and ask yourself how inspiring the hiring manager was. If they impressed you, pull out all the stops to get the job - writing thank you notes, giving them copies of previous work, etc. Never ever accept a job working for someone you don't _respect_.

Good luck!


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## greyskies01 (Aug 23, 2018)

firegrace said:


> As an update as of today at 330p eastern, because the company has lost so many clients and monthly recurring revenue is down like 50% they had to let me go. Thank God. I am so relieved.
> 
> I learned some very valuable lessons to implement for my next career/business move that I will edit in after I've had time to think through them all.
> 
> Thanks for the advice everyone.


Good luck, here's to moving on and forwards!


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

I can relate. I left my last position for similar reasons. As far as the culture and status quo thing. And I actually loved my job itself. When most of the time I haven’t liked my job but was ok with a company.

I’d say all experience ends up being good experience. Even if while going thru the experience is awful.

I’m not the best person to say my stubbornness has worked out to my advantage at this point. It’s been hit or miss. As of right now I’m sorta riding the line. I’ve made enough dramatic moves on principle. But I’ve also hung in there at certain points in life too. I tend to be a person who myself can go either direction depending on the place, is there much to gain for the torture or experience etc.

I.e. this last position I had did not enhance my resume that much. Technically I was over qualified. I took that position with a pay cut for my sanity. So when the culture ended up being the worst work culture as far as status quo highschool clicks kinda stuff I’d ever been in. It was easier for me to say:
1. Ok I’m making less than I can anywhere else.
2. I’m being bullied
3. This position has no growth internally
4. I took a pay cut for a position because I wanted more joy. But instead of joy was opposite. As at least my salary positions I was over worked the culture was not that awful.

But then I’ve also been in prior positions where the company had chaos. Alotta organizational management issues. Where the culture was so/so. I’ve found I stayed at these companies knowing it helped enhance my resume. If you can stay floating in that chaos and get a few good things on your resume and leave at the right time. Meh it’s worth it.

I get the impression you’re at more of a place like my last paragraph example. I’d say just capitalize on whatever you can pull out and get on your resume and leave before they tank. All depends how you look at things. Mismanaged companies can be a blessing if you utilize them to frame your resume.

Just don’t stay so long you’re there for the crash 😉.

There’s a line. Get what you can outta a company! Whether it’s security and stability. Wage. Or Resume Building. If there isn’t one of those at your position then leave. Just weigh the pro and con.

Like I said I happened to actually love my last job. But not enough that I was going to be treated like shit. As I knew in my case I can pull out something better with my resume than being treated like crap.

I just took a job I’m not passionate about (but can do well) for a bit better wage. But more dignified in how I’ll be treated by peers.

Anyways weigh the pros and cons


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