# Ready for serious relationship/marriage?



## chickydoda (Feb 12, 2010)

Hello! I tried having this conversation with my mum today but she ignored me!!! She's an ISTJ. I thought I would stop by here because you guys are probably the most practical temperament and this is a big issue to think about,

I desire to be in a romantic relationship heading for marriage. I'm nearly 23. I don't want to date for the fun of it (although it had better be fun!!!) but I would expect to have a few boyfriends before I come across the right person.

1. If someone meets someone that is a few years older and "has all their ducks in a row" (good paying job, health managed, able to put a down payment on a house, knows what they want from life etc) and meets his dream girl, would it be a bad idea for them to get married if the girl feels ready for marriage/babies but doesnt have everything sorted? (is unemployed, hasn't been to uni yet, BUT knows what she wants from spouse/life)?

I want to date for 2ish years than be engaged for about 18 months. That's a decent amount of time to get my shit together isn't it?

2. What qualities should a person have before they start seeking a serious relationship/prepare for marriage?

3. Before I do all this, should I be making a list of things to do that might be too difficult once tied down with a partner? (and set out to do them)

Thanks everyone!


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## Life.Is.A.Game (Nov 5, 2010)

chickydoda said:


> Hello! I tried having this conversation with my mum today but she ignored me!!! She's an ISTJ. I thought I would stop by here because you guys are probably the most practical temperament and this is a big issue to think about,
> 
> I desire to be in a romantic relationship heading for marriage. I'm nearly 23. I don't want to date for the fun of it (although it had better be fun!!!) but I would expect to have a few boyfriends before I come across the right person.
> 
> ...


There is only one rule for meeting someone or being in a relationship and that rule is :

THERE ARE NO RULES!!!

You can't make lists or put a time limit on how long it would take you to get your shit together. I mean I guess you can but:
1. Where's the fun in that?
2. What happens if plans don't turn out as expected? (which is what usually happens in life)

Would a guy that has everything together be with someone who doesn't... sure. I believe that could happen as long as you're offering SOMEthing to the relationship that the guy needs. 

You shouldn't be planning things like this though, it comes naturally and it's more fun when stuff "just happens"... you know? You don't have to worry so much about these things, just have fun!


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## chickydoda (Feb 12, 2010)

I just don't want to waste my time, and I want to get married in the next 5 years but I'm not sure if I'm in the right place/what I need to do to be there.


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## Life.Is.A.Game (Nov 5, 2010)

I'm guessing the only reason you're planning everything like that and list making is because of your ISTJ mom? Just a guess, considering you're ENFP.


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## Life.Is.A.Game (Nov 5, 2010)

chickydoda said:


> I just don't want to waste my time, and I want to get married in the next 5 years but I'm not sure if I'm in the right place/what I need to do to be there.


Do you want to get married to get away from home? Or if not then why? 

You think NOT being married is a waste of time? That's sad...why do you think that? Do you know what marriage is like? What attracts you about being married? Are you just doing it because "that's what people do?" ... that's what it sounds like!


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## chickydoda (Feb 12, 2010)

I've always been a planner. It's the way I process my thoughts and make things happen.

I do want to get away from my parents, but I have a nice life with them as well. I would go flatting but it's hard with my anxiety and bipolar. I want to get married because I want a family of my own, somewhere that I am understood, loved, appreciated and taken seriously. Somewhere I can make my own decisions. I want to be married for security, fun times, love, togetherness. I get such strong feelings of love, I want to share them with someone in a safe place. I want to have sex (I'm a Christian). I want to practice Christian things without being mocked or feeling silly. I want to grow closer to God and pray with my husband and have a bible study partner. I want to have kids before the risk of Downs Syndrome goes up as well as other conditions. I want to have a good guy before they are all taken. I want to get married before I get completely set in my ways and can't compromise with a life partner. Etc.

-even if I do start looking for a serious relationship now, marriage would still be at least 3-4 years off based on my plan.


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## snail (Oct 13, 2008)

1. I don't think being financially stable is required. Marriage isn't about that. It is about being in love with someone and being willing to figure out the unstable parts together whenever they arise. 

2. Before seeking marriage, a person should be capable of putting another person's needs on at least the same level as his/her own, and should be willing to cooperate with a partner whose feelings and desires may sometimes conflict with what s/he wants. A person should be ready to work on (nonviolent) conflict resolution. A person should be capable of loving, trusting and respecting a partner, and committing oneself exclusively to that person for life. 

3. What kinds of things would be harder with a partner? If you mean things like traveling the world as a nomadic hippie, then perhaps it is important to find a partner who is willing to travel with you, or willing to give you the temporary space to have such adventures alone. Most adventures are enhanced by sharing them. Making a list might not be a bad idea, but it is sad to see you already thinking of marriage as being "tied down with a partner," as though it were like being stuck on a short leash to which you must permanently resign yourself. 

I'm about to get married in a matter of days, and I have had to think about these things, too. Neither of us is financially stable. I worried at first about being trapped or controlled, unable to do all of the things I wanted to do, but the relationship has grown to a point where I trust him not to try to take all of my time away from activities that matter to me. I feel ready to build a life with someone I consider deeply compatible in all of the ways that matter. 

I think marriage is going to be wonderful. It has always been the goal whenever I have looked for a partner. There is no point in seeking out relationships that aren't expected to last forever, and I held this opinion even when I was young. When I was in my early teens, my grandmother told me I should date lots of guys at once, without getting too involved with any of them, to get practice instead of worrying about seriously falling in love with the right one, and I thought that she was horribly unromantic to say such a thing. I ignored her advice because it went against my nature.


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## chickydoda (Feb 12, 2010)

@_snail_! Wow. Great response! I will reply to you properly when I am at a computer, I don't want to write anything too long right now.

I remember you being single, when did you get in a relationship, then get engaged? It seems to have happened so quickly!

Congratulations and I hope you two have a fantastic life together filled with love and fun<3

I agree with your grandma. I'm open to the idea of dating several guys at once, but they have to be aware of the situation and they would be interview type dates to see who I'm most compatible with and would want to spend a life with. I have strict boundaries about things like kissing and sex.


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## Life.Is.A.Game (Nov 5, 2010)

I see. Well I think others will be more suited to give you advice more then me since my view on relationships and marriage are different then yours. I wish you much luck in your search.


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## chickydoda (Feb 12, 2010)

Life.Is.A.Game said:


> I see. Well I think others will be more suited to give you advice more then me since my view on relationships and marriage are different then yours. I wish you much luck in your search.


Alrighty then, that probably is for the best.

Thank you for stopping by and offering advice, I did actually find some of it useful. If you have any fun date ideas or relationship tips, I would love to hear them!


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## Life.Is.A.Game (Nov 5, 2010)

chickydoda said:


> Alrighty then, that probably is for the best.
> 
> Thank you for stopping by and offering advice, I did actually find some of it useful. If you have any fun date ideas or relationship tips, I would love to hear them!


No fun date ideas here since I don't like going on dates.lol

Relationship tips... I have a bunch of those, lots of experience with relationships and marriage. I was raised christian as well but I grew apart from the church and then I decided to be spiritual in my own way... anyway...

Tips:

*The less expectations you have from your partner the better, less chances of getting disappointed. 

*If you need or want your partner to do something with you or for you, don't nag. Tell him once and if he doesn't listen then sit him down and tell him how important it is for you that he does it. It's the ONLY way that works with every personality type/gender/religion. No one likes to be nagged and some things are important to some people and not to others so another person won't know how important something is to you until you tell them clearly but nicely.

*Everyone likes to be appreciated. A man (and women too actually) will do more and be nicer when you show appreciation for what they do already. Many women complain about their guy working too much, not spending enough time with them, etc... but if the women would appreciate the guys for what they DO then the guys would want to be around their woman more often. No one wants to be around a complainer. 

I don't know if those are of any help but that's what I got for now.


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## SublimeSerendipity (Dec 30, 2010)

chickydoda said:


> I've always been a planner. It's the way I process my thoughts and make things happen.
> 
> I do want to get away from my parents, but I have a nice life with them as well. I would go flatting but it's hard with my anxiety and bipolar. I want to get married because I want a family of my own, somewhere that I am understood, loved, appreciated and taken seriously. Somewhere I can make my own decisions. I want to be married for security, fun times, love, togetherness. I get such strong feelings of love, I want to share them with someone in a safe place. I want to have sex (I'm a Christian). I want to practice Christian things without being mocked or feeling silly. I want to grow closer to God and pray with my husband and have a bible study partner. I want to have kids before the risk of Downs Syndrome goes up as well as other conditions. I want to have a good guy before they are all taken. I want to get married before I get completely set in my ways and can't compromise with a life partner. Etc.
> 
> -even if I do start looking for a serious relationship now, marriage would still be at least 3-4 years off based on my plan.


Just be careful that you are doing it because it's a person that you can't live without, not because you want these other things (to get away from your parents, have sex, have kids, be loved). I've found that people that focus on those things when entering relationships end up relationships that aren't necessarily the best relationships because they grab the first one that arises, only to have problems later on.


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## niss (Apr 25, 2010)

@chickydoda - 

You have your priorities all mixed up.

While I understand the constraints of time in relation to marriage and child rearing, you should avoid making a decision to marry based on the time or season in which you find yourself. 

Instead, focus on becoming the best person you can be. Get your life together, get your schooling done, get a job, get out on your own. Once you do that, you will have a better idea of who you really are, and can then date and marry someone that is compatible with the real you.

This doesn't mean that you must focus on becoming a career woman if being a housewife is your goal - there is nothing dishonorable about being a homemaker and raising children. What it does mean is that while you might have the ultimate goal of being a Christian wife and a mother, your grounded enough to tend to your self-development so that you can work and maintain lifestyle without relying on someone else to do these things for you. It also gives you the time to study child development and the dynamics of a marriage relationship objectively, instead of doing so from the POV from the counselors office (as so many do).

And, like it or not, when it comes to marriage, there is a definite socio-economic caste system in place. The steps you take to better educate yourself, become emotionally healthier, and become physically healthier will result in attracting a spouse of similar values.

HTH


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## Sai (Sep 3, 2012)

dont make plans like that, high expectations bring BIG  disappointments* 
*


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## chickydoda (Feb 12, 2010)

snail said:


> 1. I don't think being financially stable is required. Marriage isn't about that. It is about being in love with someone and being willing to figure out the unstable parts together whenever they arise.


I wondered about that... be young and poor together but split the costs of things and be a little better off. Grow up together. Sounds kinda nice doesn't it?



> it is sad to see you already thinking of marriage as being "tied down with a partner,"


Oh, I was just using the well known expression, that isn't necessarily how I see it. More like ''tied to a partner'' haha- where I go he goes, and where he goes I go. I guess.



Life.Is.A.Game said:


> Tips:
> 
> *The less expectations you have from your partner the better, less chances of getting disappointed.
> 
> ...


Thanks, those are gold! I really liked the second and third ones!



niss said:


> Instead, focus on becoming the best person you can be. Get your life together, get your schooling done, get a job, get out on your own. Once you do that, you will have a better idea of who you really are, and can then date and marry someone that is compatible with the real you.


So... you don't think I should date while I do those things? What kind of age do you think people should start dating? Having your children before you turn 30 is ideal for health/managing your weight type reasons, but I guess for financial reasons, its better to have your children in your thirties.



> This doesn't mean that you must focus on becoming a career woman if being a housewife is your goal - there is nothing dishonorable about being a homemaker and raising children.


I want to do both actually... not really sure how thats supposed to work out, maybe I should just pick one thing? I really want to do the housewife/stay at home mother type thing but realistically, I don't know how many men would be happy with a wife that doesn't work in this day and age and also, would they make enough money on their own for me to feel secure/happy? Dreams cost money unfortunately (unless you have a really good imagination, lol. You can go anywhere in your head!).



> What it does mean is that while you might have the ultimate goal of being a Christian wife and a mother, your grounded enough to tend to your self-development so that you can work and maintain lifestyle without relying on someone else to do these things for you. It also gives you the time to study child development and the dynamics of a marriage relationship objectively, instead of doing so from the POV from the counselors office (as so many do).


I don't really get the last part that I quoted, but I am really big on personal development/self improvement, its really important to me and something I'm always reading about. I also find it really interesting  I've pretty much been preparing to be a mother since I was 7, I did a bit of babysitting growing up for all sorts of families and age groups and I'm pretty sure its something I want. I think I will rely on my husband at times because of my mental illness... I don't think it can be avoided. I guess if I can find a few other support people I won't have to burden him too much? I suppose everyone comes with a certain amount of baggage, this is just mine.



> And, like it or not, when it comes to marriage, there is a definite socio-economic caste system in place. The steps you take to better educate yourself, become emotionally healthier, and become physically healthier will result in attracting a spouse of similar values.






> HTH


What does that stand for?



Sai said:


> dont make plans like that, high expectations bring BIG disappointments*
> *


Seems to be true unfortunately!


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## KateMarie999 (Dec 20, 2011)

I didn't really plan on getting in a relationship. I just figured when the right guy came along, I'd know. And then he did.

Don't sweat it. I mean I went out with quite a few guys before meeting someone worth my while. If the chemistry is there, you'll know. It usually happens over time. I knew my boyfriend for 2 years before our first date. I hadn't even considered him an option until last October and then he was chasing some other girl so it took me even longer to get him to finally ask me out.

Okay I don't remember exactly but I _think_ I remember you saying you're a Christian so I'll take a chance and add that if you're ready, you'll meet the guy God wants you to marry. I'm not saying it will definitely happen. But I'd wanted to get married since I was a kid and when I finally thought I was mature enough for a relationship, I just couldn't find anyone. But I found my guy at the right time. So don't worry. God's got it under control. :happy:

If my memory is really bad and it turns out you're not a Christian, disregard that last statement.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

chickydoda said:


> Hello! I tried having this conversation with my mum today but she ignored me!!! She's an ISTJ. I thought I would stop by here because you guys are probably the most practical temperament and this is a big issue to think about,
> 
> I desire to be in a romantic relationship heading for marriage. I'm nearly 23. I don't want to date for the fun of it (although it had better be fun!!!) but I would expect to have a few boyfriends before I come across the right person.
> 
> ...







I rather think your Mum thought what I'm thinking: "Come talk to me when you have found the right person." 
You don't exactly _plan_ for something like this, it pretty much happens to you when it happens. If you try to _force it _to happen, you're probably going to regret it. 

I need love, love
To ease my mind
I need to find, find someone to call mine
But mama said

You can't hurry love
No, you just have to wait
She said love don't come easy
It's a game of give and take

You can't hurry love
No, you just have to wait
You got to trust, give it time
No matter how long it takes

But how many heartaches
Must I stand before I find a love
To let me live again
Right now the only thing
That keeps me hangin' on
When I feel my strength, yeah
It's almost gone
I remember mama said:

You can't hurry love
No, you just have to wait
She said love don't come easy
It's a game of give and take

How long must I wait
How much more can I take
Before loneliness will cause my heart
Heart to break?

No I can't bear to live my life alone
I grow impatient for a love to call my own
But when I feel that I, I can't go on
These precious words keeps me hangin' on
I remember mama said:

You can't hurry love
No, you just have to wait
She said love don't come easy
It's a game of give and take

You can't hurry love
No, you just have to wait
She said trust, give it time
No matter how long it takes
No, love, love, don't come easy
But I keep on waiting
Anticipating for that soft voice
To talk to me at night
For some tender arms
To hold me tight
I keep waiting
I keep on waiting
But it ain't easy
It ain't easy
But mama said:

You can't hurry love
No, you just have to wait
She said to trust, give it time
No matter how long it takes
You can't hurry love

No, you just have to wait
She said love don't come easy
It's a game of give and take


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## chickydoda (Feb 12, 2010)

tanstaafl28 said:


> I rather think your Mum thought what I'm thinking: "Come talk to me when you have found the right person."
> You don't exactly _plan_ for something like this, it pretty much happens to you when it happens. If you try to _force it _to happen, you're probably going to regret it.


Interesting point of view, what makes you say that? Are you familiar with the way ISTJs think?


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

chickydoda said:


> Interesting point of view, what makes you say that? Are you familiar with the way ISTJs think?


I know a few of them. They're pretty much no nonsense. I know they don't believe in "...Putting the cart before the horse." They believe in going "...By the book," thus, before you start thinking/talking about marriage, you probably should already have someone in mind first. 

When I met my future wife, I knew there was something _different _about her, but I didn't know I was going to _marry_ her. Our first date was November 18, 1995. Our first kiss left my lips numb.


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## snapdragons (Feb 1, 2011)

What @niss said.

Really, you've got yourself an orderly list there. I can admire that, and I was actually preparing for marriage at your age. I can understand why you've got yourself a list, but I can also say this:

Life doesn't always go the way we want to. Perhaps I got "lucky" because I didn't have to have a few boyfriends in order to get married and I married fairly young. However, one of the things you need to keep in mind is your plans can change quickly for the right person. So you aren't done with university yet-- so what? What's your ultimate goal? What are you doing to show that you are going to be a worthy woman to marry? Sure you can finish university and get a job, but what about character development? What are YOU going to bring to the table to a man when it comes to finally settling down? Think about these things. You can have all of your ducks in a row, but no lake for them to swim in.


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## Cetanu (Jan 20, 2012)

chickydoda said:


> Hello! I tried having this conversation with my mum today but she ignored me!!! She's an ISTJ. I thought I would stop by here because you guys are probably the most practical temperament and this is a big issue to think about,
> 
> I desire to be in a romantic relationship heading for marriage. I'm nearly 23. I don't want to date for the fun of it (although it had better be fun!!!) but I would expect to have a few boyfriends before I come across the right person.
> 
> ...


Your conditions and expectations are a nightmare and I don't know of any males that, if they knew these expectations and conditions, would go near you or invest themselves in you at all.

In fact, this thread makes me never want to go out with girls again on the off-chance that they have the same thought process as you when it comes to relationships.


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## snapdragons (Feb 1, 2011)

Cetanu said:


> Your conditions and expectations are a nightmare and I don't know of any males that, if they knew these expectations and conditions, would go near you or invest themselves in you at all.
> 
> In fact, this thread makes me never want to go out with girls again on the off-chance that they have the same thought process as you when it comes to relationships.


Well I can say getting off the dating market might increase her chances of actually meeting a guy who is more like-minded. Water seeks its own level. Just because she's ready for something that you (or many others) aren't doesn't mean what she desires in the end result isn't okay. Her means to get there need to be reconfigured, is all.


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## Cetanu (Jan 20, 2012)

snapdragons said:


> Well I can say getting off the dating market might increase her chances of actually meeting a guy who is more like-minded. Water seeks its own level. Just because she's ready for something that you (or many others) aren't doesn't mean what she desires in the end result isn't okay. Her means to get there need to be reconfigured, is all.


Here's my equivalent:

I'm nearly 24. I don't want to date unless I'm getting sex from it (although I'm sure I could tolerate no sex for 2 weeks)

1. If someone meets someone that is a few years younger and "is fit to be a wife" (knows how to cook, enjoys cleaning the house, has good enough hips to rear my future son(s), doesn't have any debt or daddy issues) and meets his dream man, would it be a bad idea for them to get married if the guy feels ready for a good woman to support him in his life but doesn't have everything sorted? (I don't have a job, have never studied BUT I know what I want from my woman/life)?

I want to date for 2ish years and then skip engagement and get married straight away.

Before I do all this, I should make a list of things that I need to finish up before I have to deal with a wife every day, because I know for sure that I won't have time to do anything pleasing beyond that point.

Thanks!


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## snapdragons (Feb 1, 2011)

Cetanu said:


> Here's my equivalent:
> 
> I'm nearly 24. I don't want to date unless I'm getting sex from it (although I'm sure I could tolerate no sex for 2 weeks)


TBH, you'd have to ask the girl you're with before things get serious, as this is a deal-breaker for many. 



Cetanu said:


> 1. If someone meets someone that is a few years younger and "is fit to be a wife" (knows how to cook, enjoys cleaning the house, has good enough hips to rear my future son(s), doesn't have any debt or daddy issues) and meets his dream man, would it be a bad idea for them to get married if the guy feels ready for a good woman to support him in his life but doesn't have everything sorted? (I don't have a job, have never studied BUT I know what I want from my woman/life)?


Honestly, most people have a plan. Even if they've never been to school or don't have a job at the time. Money also doesn't solve issues and as I said to the OP-- what else are you going to have to bring to the table? What are you going to do to make it known that investing in you for a lifetime (not just monetarily, mind you) will be worth it?

I know most people might be surprised at my response in regards to the job part, but we now live in a world where you need to keep it together even when the other doesn't have a job. I say this from experience. 



Cetanu said:


> I want to date for 2ish years and then skip engagement and get married straight away.


TBH, I wished I had done that myself. Eh, life doesn't give you do-overs. 



Cetanu said:


> Before I do all this, I should make a list of things that I need to finish up before I have to deal with a wife every day, because I know for sure that I won't have time to do anything pleasing beyond that point.
> 
> Thanks!


Oh yeah, because marriage is one of the worst things that could happen to you. We all know it's hellfire and brimstone 24/7 after marriage, because being single and not having opposite sex genitalia next to you every night is so much better.


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## Cetanu (Jan 20, 2012)

You ignored this part:

1. If someone meets someone that is a few years younger and "is fit to be a wife" (knows how to cook, enjoys cleaning the house, has good enough hips to rear my future son(s), doesn't have any debt or daddy issues)


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## snapdragons (Feb 1, 2011)

So can you explain to me how a woman who is expected to be a homemaker and bear children supposed to monetarily support a husband?? You also certainly have some interesting views on what it means to be "fit to be a wife."


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## Cetanu (Jan 20, 2012)

snapdragons said:


> So can you explain to me how a woman who is expected to be a homemaker and bear children supposed to monetarily support a husband?? You also certainly have some interesting views on what it means to be "fit to be a wife."


My post is made up as an example of why setting these types of expectations are ridiculous.

These expectations and conditions also do not account for emotional connection.

If you actually did the math to find out the probability of finding a partner based on the current population of the earth filtered through this criteria, then through more criteria to account for chemistry, physical attraction, location,...... et cetera.... You would find that you will never find who you are looking for. You will be alone.

While it's good to plan for things, a plan requires responsibility. Waiting for someone ELSE who has all of their life sorted out is a complete avoidance of personal responsibility and that "plan" will never work out the way you want it to.
If you really want to make a plan for your future and your relationships, marriage, children and career then YOU should be the focus of said plan. The only things that should be in the plan are what YOU will do, become and achieve.

Stop waiting around for prince charming to appear and sweep you off your feet and maybe try ATTRACTING prince charming (via your own personal success and character)

Up to you.


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## chickydoda (Feb 12, 2010)

Life.Is.A.Game said:


> You can't make lists or put a time limit on how long it would take you to get your shit together. I mean I guess you can but:
> 1. Where's the fun in that?
> 2. What happens if plans don't turn out as expected? (which is what usually happens in life)


I guess I just want to be friends with someone for a few years before we start dating or we date for a long time. I feel like it takes a long time to ''really'' know someone. I don't want any nasty surprises later on. And I don't want to be one of those people who gets engaged within a month of meeting each other. I have a time frame in my mind, but I'm willing to compromise a certain amount. I guess the time frame is big because I've never had a boyfriend before so I have no idea what I'm doing. 



> Would a guy that has everything together be with someone who doesn't... sure. I believe that could happen as long as you're offering SOMEthing to the relationship that the guy needs.


Sure, I think everyone has something to offer to a relationship.



Life.Is.A.Game said:


> You think NOT being married is a waste of time? That's sad...why do you think that? Do you know what marriage is like? What attracts you about being married?


I just feel like as a Christian, I can't date in a worldly way. I feel uncomfortable about getting intimate or too affectionate with someone who hasn't put a ring on my finger. I've watched so many of my friends in relationships, and it really hurts me because I want that SO bad, but I don't want to do those things with someone else's future husband. I want to be with the right person and be committed to each other before we start doing stuff. I don't really know how to explain it- like I feel like I can't have romance and love until I'm married?

The majority of Christians don't think/date like this, but some do. I want to be with someone who puts God first and makes him the centre of it all.

No, how could I possibly know what marriage is like? I've never been married! I just imagine it as being like moving in with your boyfriend/girlfriend and knowing they are the one, being able to sleep together without guilt, having a joint bank account, having children in a stable environment (I believe marriage is a safety net for the children, a parent can't just walk out and take everything). I think its something that you have to learn as you go along and the definition of marriage is different for everyone, so no one will ever be fully satisfied with someone else's answer.



> Are you just doing it because "that's what people do?" ... that's what it sounds like!


I stated my reasons in an above post, but to be honest, I don't know. I am tempted to do things like everyone else, but it just seems so sinful.



Life.Is.A.Game said:


> I see. Well I think others will be more suited to give you advice more then me since my view on relationships and marriage are different then yours.


Out of curiosity, what is your view on marriage?



BuckeyeENFP said:


> Just be careful that you are doing it because it's a person that you can't live without


Great advice!



niss said:


> Instead, focus on becoming the best person you can be. Get your life together, get your schooling done, get a job, get out on your own. Once you do that, you will have a better idea of who you really are, and can then date and marry someone that is compatible with the real you.


I'm trying, I really am. I set goals and try to accomplish them but my Bipolar keeps getting in the way. I don't want it to ruin my whole life, I don't think I'm ever going to be ''perfect'' or ''normal'' but maybe there's someone out there who is ok with that?



> This doesn't mean that you must focus on becoming a career woman if being a housewife is your goal - there is nothing dishonorable about being a homemaker and raising children.


This makes me sad. There was nothing shameful about being a stay at home mother/homemaker 50 years ago, but now everyone expects you to work. Its not that I don't want to work or have a career, its just, I've always wanted to have children and spend time with them. I don't know if I can go through life with the expectation that my partner will support this dream, stay at home mothers are looked down on big time these days, women can't seem to win.



> What it does mean is that while you might have the ultimate goal of being a Christian wife and a mother, your grounded enough to tend to your self-development so that you can work and maintain lifestyle without relying on someone else to do these things for you.


I think I'll probably always need more support than most people, even if I get my Bipolar under control it will still cause trouble at times.



> It also gives you the time to study child development and the dynamics of a marriage relationship objectively, instead of doing so from the POV from the counselors office (as so many do).


I guess that's what I'm trying to do here- see what qualities/experience someone should have before they start thinking about marriage. I'm a bit clueless. I know lots about child development and know what I want to do with my children but marriage is a bit of a mystery to me.



> And, like it or not, when it comes to marriage, there is a definite socio-economic caste system in place. The steps you take to better educate yourself, become emotionally healthier, and become physically healthier will result in attracting a spouse of similar values.






> HTH


What does that stand for?



KateMarie999 said:


> If my memory is really bad and it turns out you're not a Christian, disregard that last statement.


I'm a Christian hanging on by a thread. Things haven't been going well for the last few years, the last church I was a member of pretty much turned me off Christianity. I WANT to want to be a Christian but I'm not sure if I am anymore. I'm hoping to get back into it again, but it will be much harder than the first time when it was brand new and shiny.



tanstaafl28 said:


> I know a few of them. They're pretty much no nonsense. I know they don't believe in "...Putting the cart before the horse." They believe in going "...By the book," thus, before you start thinking/talking about marriage, you probably should already have someone in mind first.


Oh ok, that's interesting. That would explain a few things.



snapdragons said:


> Really, you've got yourself an orderly list there. I can admire that, and I was actually preparing for marriage at your age.


''Preparing'' in the same way I am now, or were you actually engaged?



> However, one of the things you need to keep in mind is your plans can change quickly for the right person.


I realise that. *Sigh*. I would be really sad to let all of my plans go, I hope we can compromise and both be happy.



> What are you doing to show that you are going to be a worthy woman to marry? Sure you can finish university and get a job, but what about character development? What are YOU going to bring to the table to a man when it comes to finally settling down?


I don't know how to answer those things, but I believe I would make a good wife. (Actually, I have some ideas, but I don't want to answer them. PM if you want to know more).



> You can have all of your ducks in a row, but no lake for them to swim in.


Interesting quote... what do you mean by that?


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## chickydoda (Feb 12, 2010)

@_snapdragons_ thank you for standing up for me, I appreciate it.



snapdragons said:


> Well I can say getting off the dating market might increase her chances of actually meeting a guy who is more like-minded. Water seeks its own level. Just because she's ready for something that you (or many others) aren't doesn't mean what she desires in the end result isn't okay. Her means to get there need to be reconfigured, is all.


What do you mean get off the dating market? I'm not on the dating market now. What do you think needs to be ''reconfigured?''



snapdragons said:


> TBH, I wished I had done that myself. Eh, life doesn't give you do-overs.


What would you do differently?



snapdragons said:


> So can you explain to me how a woman who is expected to be a homemaker and bear children supposed to monetarily support a husband?? You also certainly have some interesting views on what it means to be "fit to be a wife."


I hope to do all three things. I doubt I will be able to though.

[HR][/HR]
@_Cetanu_



> 1. If someone meets someone that is a few years younger and "is fit to be a wife" (knows how to cook, enjoys cleaning the house, has good enough hips to rear my future son(s), doesn't have any debt or daddy issues)


I was explaining what I meant by ''ducks in a row''- its actually an expression I got out of a dating/courtship book, I didn't really know what it meant before that. Those weren't my requirements/preferences, I was just explaining what I meant by that phrase. I'm turning 23 in two weeks, I wouldn't expect someone my age to have it all together. It would be nice to be with someone who has a certain level of stability. If someone like me is with someone that has no stability, well we're both screwed!

By the way, I didn't think there was anything stupid about my list. Those expectations aren't crazy. I didn't say I wanted to be with someone with an IQ of 180, a billion dollars in the bank, the body of a greek god and their own spaceship. 



> Your conditions and expectations are a nightmare and I don't know of any males that, if they knew these expectations and conditions, would go near you or invest themselves in you at all.


Maybe you should try meeting some Christian guys then. Maybe the majority of them would be scared off by me, but the ones who aren't are probably the one's I'm actually interested in.



> In fact, this thread makes me never want to go out with girls again on the off-chance that they have the same thought process as you when it comes to relationships.


I'm really disappointed in you. I thought you were this really cool, funny guy, but instead you come off as being incredibly close minded and negative towards people with a different world view to you. The way I do/plan to do things works for a lot of people, and they are happy. I don't want to have lots of boyfriends. I don't want to hurt anyone. I don't want anyone else to hurt me. I don't want to continue relationships if its clear we have incompatible life goals. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I never said I wasn't going to do anything, wasn't trying to get my ducks in a row. I was asking if anyone would accept me as I am now. If you don't, fine, but you can only represent yourself, not the whole male population.

I think its good that you don't want to go out with a girl like me, with similar thought processes. Your loss, her gain. You probably wouldn't be compatible anyway. Plus, its a very Christian way of thinking and after seeing how you feel about Christians in general, I can't imagine you'd be chasing any Christian girls anyway.



> Here's my equivalent:
> 
> I'm nearly 24. I don't want to date unless I'm getting sex from it (although I'm sure I could tolerate no sex for 2 weeks)


Eww. That grosses me out. I get having sex after you've been with someone for 6 months to a year, but having sex with someone that is pretty much a stranger? No thanks. What if the girl gets pregnant? Finds out you've slept with every other girl in town? Gives you some sex related disease?



> Before I do all this, I should make a list of things that I need to finish up before I have to deal with a wife every day, because I know for sure that I won't have time to do anything pleasing beyond that point.


Wow, thats a depressing way to see things! Have fun with that...



Cetanu said:


> My post is made up as an example of why setting these types of expectations are ridiculous.
> 
> These expectations and conditions also do not account for emotional connection.


That's true, but you can waste a lot of time in a relationship if you don't know what you want. Things like children, boundaries, travel plans, where you want to live etc can and should be deal breakers. You should have enough in common that you can compromise. I had really good chemistry with someone a while back, but his job involved a lot of travel and spending time in the military overseas so I decided against it. My dad was away a lot while I was growing up and I really missed him. I want someone that will always be home for dinner (most nights anyway), not gone 3 days a week or 6 months at a time. I also didn't want to fall in love with someone that might get blown up in battle.



> If you actually did the math to find out the probability of finding a partner based on the current population of the earth filtered through this criteria, then through more criteria to account for chemistry, physical attraction, location,...... et cetera.... You would find that you will never find who you are looking for. You will be alone.


I've actually found a lot of people I would be interested in meeting on a dating site that wanted exactly the same things as me. I don't know if there's anyone in my area, but I'm sure if we fall in love one of us would be happy to move. I'm not particulary attached to any of the places I've lived so far anyway. 



> While it's good to plan for things, a plan requires responsibility. Waiting for someone ELSE who has all of their life sorted out is a complete avoidance of personal responsibility and that "plan" will never work out the way you want it to.


I am trying REALLY REALLY hard. Everyday is a struggle for me because of my mental illness. There are no guarantees. I get close to success and then my illness gets in the way. I get stressed easily. I want to have all my ducks in a row. I am trying. I just don't know if I'll ever reach it 100%. Its one of the reasons I started this thread- to see if anyone was ok with that.



> If you really want to make a plan for your future and your relationships, marriage, children and career then YOU should be the focus of said plan. The only things that should be in the plan are what YOU will do, become and achieve.


That's what I'm doing. I know exactly what I want. I can't really include hypothetical person's plans/feelings because I don't know what they are.


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## Das Brechen (Nov 26, 2011)

Please excuse the jadedness, but what exactly does marriage benefit a man in the world these days?

I agree with others who have said that this is a different world we live in than in our parents time. Society is pushing towards a more unisex role among the genders though there are those who cling to the traditional ways of doing things which is neither bad or good. I guess one of the important things to ask your partner is if he is okay being the traditional homemaker type or if he would be okay if it came to that point. If you came into this hypothetical with nothing practical to offer, he might be okay with it. Depends on the person, I guess.

I think common sense applies here: just find yourself someone who has the same beliefs and values you do. It's not foolproof but don't delude yourself into thinking someone will fit exactly into the mold you've constructed and you'll be fine.

Side note: Who still marries for love these days? Not saying being practical is the end-all, be-all reason to do something but if people are still getting divorced like no one's business I think it's time we reevaluate that. Oh, well. Just my two cents.


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## chickydoda (Feb 12, 2010)

Das Brechen said:


> Please excuse the jadedness, but what exactly does marriage benefit a man in the world these days?


It doesn't really... my parents talk about this all the time. Why buy the cow if you can get the milk for free? I can't remember the other points they make but they were good points. I just hope that a Christian man would think differently.



> I agree with others who have said that this is a different world we live in than in our parents time. Society is pushing towards a more unisex role among the genders though there are those who cling to the traditional ways of doing things which is neither bad or good. I guess one of the important things to ask your partner is if he is okay being the traditional homemaker type or if he would be okay if it came to that point. If you came into this hypothetical with nothing practical to offer, he might be okay with it. Depends on the person, I guess.


I think the problem is that women are expected to work, keep a house and raise children. Men just have to work. If women choose to stay home with their children they are looked down on. That isn't right. I don't necessarily like gender roles, but people should be able to do what they want and what works for their families without being judged. If the man wants to stay home with the kids, that's cool too. Being a mother is one of the hardest jobs you can do anyway, it's a shame you don't get paid for it.



> I think common sense applies here: just find yourself someone who has the same beliefs and values you do. It's not foolproof but don't delude yourself into thinking someone will fit exactly into the mold you've constructed and you'll be fine.


Its okay, I'm fine with a certain level of compromise. Its just good to have some kind of idea of what you're looking for, although my sister said you have to date a few guys to really know what you want/need. I wonder if you can really know without that experience?



> Side note: Who still marries for love these days? Not saying being practical is the end-all, be-all reason to do something but if people are still getting divorced like no one's business I think it's time we reevaluate that. Oh, well. Just my two cents.


I think most people marry for love. It was more a business transaction in the olden days when marriages were pretty much arranged by the parents. Arranged marriages can work really well, I know a Muslim couple that has one, and they are really happy. Apparently the divorce rate is a lot lower. (I'm not talking specifically about Muslims, are Muslims even allowed to get divorces?). I wouldn't want an arranged marriage. The thought of marrying someone I don't know terrifies me.

I think the main change in marriage is that it's not for life anymore, there's no real commitment. Its more like ''till we no longer love each other do we depart'' or ''until someone better comes along''. Its like, why get married at all with that attitude?


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## Cetanu (Jan 20, 2012)

@chickydoda

Your disappointment in me is permitted but, just so you know, it's not constructive at all.

A few things:

- To let a 'world view' go unchallenged when the perceived long term result of said view is undesirable or does not match up with the intention of the viewer is something I do when I don't give a shit about someone.

- Men and women cheat, even when married. What are you going to do when you get married to a spouse that has appeared perfect for a year but over time decides to be unfaithful?

- Who says that marriage is a safety net for children? Parents can turn out abusive. They can lose their job. They can become depressed and suicide. Where's the safety net for these circumstances?
These things are ageless and beyond maturity or any other personal attribute.

It doesn't sound like you're fully prepared. This is why I mention responsibility. You have a young outlook on life and you're planning for things that have a high chance of going any which way.

Are you going to tell the men you meet about your expectations and plans in 100% total, straightforward honesty?


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## Das Brechen (Nov 26, 2011)

[


> QUOTE=chickydoda;2982056]It doesn't really... my parents talk about this all the time. Why buy the cow if you can get the milk for free? I can't remember the other points they make but they were good points. I just hope that a Christian man would think differently.


You would think a Christian man would adhere to scripture about the whole marriage thing. I think secular culture has a huge effect on how modern Christians think about life and relationships. Not saying all, but you do have to rule out those who wear the title but shirk the duties of that life.



> I think the thing is that women are expected to work, keep a house and raise children. Men just have to work. If women choose to stay home with their children they are looked down on. That isn't right. I don't necessarily like gender roles, but people should be able to do what they want and what works for their families without being judged. If the man wants to stay home with the kids, that's cool too. Being a mother is one of the hardest jobs you can do anyway, it's a shame you don't get paid for it.


I totally agree with you on the first point. There are women out there who can and choose to do both so it kind of sucks because some men will be like, "Well why can't you do that?" and start guilt tripping. Then there are those who choose to be single mothers or are in that situation by circumstance and have to be that superwoman. IMO, I don't think being a mother is the hardest job or one of the hardest jobs a person could do but it is one of the more rewarding ones. Just my two cents on that one.




> Its okay, I'm fine with a certain level of compromise. Its just good to have some kind of idea of what you're looking for, although my sister said you have to date a few guys to really know what you want/need. I wonder if you can really know without that experience?


Eh, you can run scenarios all day long but it'll never compare to experience. It helps to have a gameplan which it seems like you do so it'll be easier to weed out those who don't make the cut.


> I think most people marry for love. It was more a business transaction in the olden days when marriages were pretty much arranged by the parents. Arranged marriages can work really well, I know a Muslim couple that has one, and they are really happy. Apparently the divorce rate is a lot lower. (I'm not talking specifically about Muslims, are Muslims even allowed to get divorces?). I wouldn't want an arranged marriage. The thought of marrying someone I don't know terrifies me.
> 
> I think the main change in marriage is that it's not for life anymore, there's no real commitment. Its more like ''till we no longer love each other do we depart'' or ''until someone better comes along''. Its like, why get married at all with that attitude?


With "No Fault" divorces, the ability to leave at will seems pretty inviting. I can say from my observations that not many couples who make it into old age still have the love from the beginning instead it is just this bond which had cemented from years of hardship and/or sacrifice. And then some others are miserable and stay in because of fear of starting over. Forever is a long time and in today's society, to have someone who has the fortitude to withstand the decades of looking at the same person is a real gem indeed. I salute that person whoever that may be.

[/QUOTE]


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## chickydoda (Feb 12, 2010)

Cetanu said:


> Your disappointment in me is permitted but, just so you know, it's not constructive at all.


Do you actually like me, or did this thread put you off me completely? your posts on here made me cry last night and made me really doubt it. I thought we could have been friends.



> - To let a 'world view' go unchallenged when the perceived long term result of said view is undesirable or does not match up with the intention of the viewer is something I do when I don't give a shit about someone.


The results of Christianity are not always desirable, I agree, but Christians are not perfect people and a lot of people represent the group badly. I agree that Christianity has done a lot of damage but it has also done a lot of good.

I don't understand what you mean by ''or does not match up with the intention of the viewer''



> - Men and women cheat, even when married. What are you going to do when you get married to a spouse that has appeared perfect for a year but over time decides to be unfaithful?


Every couple comes up to things that can make or break them eventually. It might not be infidelity. Other things come up, like one person getting a mental illness, a disabled child joining the family, etc. You just have to deal with it when it happens. Most marriages probably break up when one person cheats, but a few survive it. Both partners have to be in 100% or you will fail. If both people want to save the marriage than it can be saved. It only takes one person for a break-up to happen. I've heard that cheating is a symptom of other problems.



> - Who says that marriage is a safety net for children? Parents can turn out abusive. They can lose their job. They can become depressed and suicide. Where's the safety net for these circumstances?


I would say its a safety net most of the time. If one parent is abusive the other can go to a safe place with the children. I'm talking about financial security here. People lose jobs all the time. There's a bad economy at the moment, its to be expected. It shouldn't be a deal breaker. I know people that get depressed and they aren't bad people or bad parents. I get depressed and suicidal all the time, and it isn't something I have control over. I don't think it makes me lose my value and become an unloveable shrew, or potentially a bad mother. It just means I need a good support system.



> It doesn't sound like you're fully prepared.


Which is why I made this thread...



> Are you going to tell the men you meet about your expectations and plans in 100% total, straightforward honesty?


I haven't figured that out yet. I don't want to spend too much time in a relationship with someone that I'm incompatible with when I should be searching for someone that wants the same things/has the same values and beliefs. I wouldn't call someone my boyfriend after dating for two weeks so I guess there's plenty of time. When is it too soon to start talking about that stuff? I don't want to waste six months- year of my life with someone that likes completely different things. That's what I like about the dating site- you get a rough idea of what the other person wants, so you can eliminate people who plan on leading completely different lives. Most likely I'll meet someone at church though.


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## Das Brechen (Nov 26, 2011)

Cetanu said:


> Are you going to tell the men you meet about your expectations and plans in 100% total, straightforward honesty?


If a woman came at me with a bucket list, I'd feel more like a commodity than anything else. But hey, I've seen stranger things.


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## chickydoda (Feb 12, 2010)

Das Brechen said:


> You would think a Christian man would adhere to scripture about the whole marriage thing. I think secular culture has a huge effect on how modern Christians think about life and relationships. Not saying all, but you do have to rule out those who wear the title but shirk the duties of that life.


True. Most Christians date like the rest of the world does. It scares me.



> I totally agree with you on the first point. There are women out there who can and choose to do both so it kind of sucks because some men will be like, "Well why can't you do that?" and start guilt tripping. Then there are those who choose to be single mothers or are in that situation by circumstance and have to be that superwoman. IMO, I don't think being a mother is the hardest job or one of the hardest jobs a person could do but it is one of the more rewarding ones. Just my two cents on that one.


I think being a mother is one of the hardest and most rewarding job. It really depends on the kids, some are easy, others are hard. Having kids with disabilities makes things a lot harder. My oldest sister has Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, my other sister had Epilepsy and I have Bipolar. Two of us have had speech problems. My sister and I have severe anxiety. It isn't easy for my parents. At least you can choose your job, you can't choose your kids. We're looking after an Autistic boy at the moment, and it is so fricken hard. He is very demanding, can be manipulative, passive aggressive etc. He is constantly lashing out at his parents. I can't even imagine how miserable it would be to put up with that all the time. I know someone else who has a daughter in her 30's who has severe mental disabilities and epilepsy who comes close to beating her up all the time, has to be restrained, has to take like ten different medications, needs two carers and constant supervision. The mother is in her 60's and can't escape. She's talked about ''knocking'' her and her daughter off because life is too hard. Having a child with a disability is hard, but there's other situations too. What if your child has a complete opposite personality to you, you can't connect and hate each other? What if your child becomes an alcoholic or druggie? You can retire from work at 65 or change jobs but you can't trade your kids in. Once you have children you're stuck with them for life and its not always a good thing.

BTW, what do you think the hardest job is? 



Das Brechen said:


> If a woman came at me with a bucket list, I'd feel more like a commodity than anything else. But hey, I've seen stranger things.


Wtf are you talking about? My bucket list is to do with my goals and dreams, it doesn't have anything to do with a significant other. I think everyone should have one.


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## Das Brechen (Nov 26, 2011)

@chickydoda

I think the hardest jobs in the world are the ones that require physical danger. Not saying motherhood isn't tough especially depending on the circumstance, it's high on the list but it's not in my top 5 per se.

Maybe I'm wrong but didn't I read about a hypothetical timetable in the OP? Oh, well. Do what you want and without criticism from me or anyone else for that matter. If your goals and dreams involve another person then maybe you should consider how it would make them feel. For the record, I am not the one to be giving advice on feelings. XD

I don't have a bucket list. I crossed every single one off. Now I just...roam.


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## chickydoda (Feb 12, 2010)

Das Brechen said:


> @_chickydoda_
> 
> I think the hardest jobs in the world are the ones that require physical danger. Not saying motherhood isn't tough especially depending on the circumstance, it's high on the list but it's not in my top 5 per se.
> 
> ...


Oh ok. I guess there could be 5 jobs harder...

The hypothetical time line was date for 2-3 years, get engaged, be engaged for 1 yr-18 months or something like that.

But... how can I consider their feelings? I don't know who I may or may not marry one day.

Thanks for the advice  What was on your bucket list?


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## Das Brechen (Nov 26, 2011)

chickydoda said:


> Thanks for the advice  What was on your bucket list?


1. To meet a lot of interesting people. People like "me".

2. To see the world. I traveled to 17+ countries so far.

3. To experience the world as a fat person. I wore a fat suit on and off for a year. I understand now.

4. To be a vegetarian for a period of time. I did it for about 2 years. Mostly. XD

5. To get married at least once. Pleasant at first, but then soured in the end. A pity.

The rest are rated R, so I won't bore with you the details.


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## chickydoda (Feb 12, 2010)

Das Brechen said:


> 1. To meet a lot of interesting people. People like "me".
> 
> 2. To see the world. I traveled to 17+ countries so far.
> 
> ...


That is a random/awesome list! How did you acquire a fat suit?


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## Das Brechen (Nov 26, 2011)

chickydoda said:


> That is a random/awesome list! How did you acquire a fat suit?


I convinced my associate at the community center to loan me the spare suit and in exchange, I would wash and maintain it in the interim. Granted, it smelled like a dead raccoon which I guess the last dude used when letting women who had been raped kick him squarely in the balls. I'm convinced my associate thought I would be dissuaded. Nay. XD


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## Life.Is.A.Game (Nov 5, 2010)

chickydoda said:


> Out of curiosity, what is your view on marriage?


I'm not sure how to answer this question, it's not very specific, what exactly are you asking me?


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## snapdragons (Feb 1, 2011)

Cetanu said:


> My post is made up as an example of why setting these types of expectations are ridiculous.
> 
> These expectations and conditions also do not account for emotional connection.


What is ridiculous for you is sensible to another. Also, if you really think an emotional connection is the primary source for keeping a marriage together, you've got a lot of learning to do before you're ready for marriage. Marriage is primarily about commitment and not just being in love, but _choosing_ to love. Many people these days are emotive-centered and don't believe they should have to do anything in order to keep a marriage or get married. I also don't think the OP was implying she intended on being a mooch sitting around eating bon-bons all day, and I along with others, suggested to her to ensure she bring something to the table to offer, too. 

To the OP-- if you really want to find someone in a non-worldly way, unfortunately what you seek will not be found conventionally.


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## niss (Apr 25, 2010)

@chickydoda -

HTH = Hope this helps

You are right to establish goals and guidelines for your relationships and marriage.

It is unfortunate that so many have a jaded view of it, but marriage is quite relevant - especially in this day and age.


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