# Yet another "bad boys/alpha males get the girl" topic, with a twist - the value of niceness.



## Dezir (Nov 25, 2013)

It's an eternal question, we have all heard this stereotype: Bad boys/alpha males get the girl. Nice guys don't get the girls. A lot of men live by this, and I assume they have good reason too, as a lot of women must live by this too for this to work. But not every woman, you can be attractive without being an alpha male. There are women with sensitivity who value a good soul, showing sensitivity, honesty about interests and tastes, happy and energetic attitude that's silly and spicy, sharing a secret and being a confidant, being romantic and intimate, as in being able to be yourself around them without fear of being judged, being interested in personal development, being tender and offering terribly specific gifts. I think the most accurate way to say it is: bad boys/alpha males get some girls. Because there are women who value romance and care.

It's easy to generalize women and say all they want is bad boys, just like it's easy to generalize men and say all the want is to use women. As a man, it's easy to see that this is not true and there are all kinds of men, but it's harder not to generalize for the other group. Just like there are caring and non-caring men, there are women interested in romance and care. What about them? they appreciate men who are polite and respectful. Men with a gentle soul. With a good soul, who appreciate what others do you for them. Who are civilized. Other traits matter as well, such as guts, initiative, confidence, dignity. Confidence still matters a lot. Confidence is certainity, if you act confident it makes people think you know what you're doing, even in the event that you don't.

Even if there are women who like decent men and find things more important than being a though guy, you still need to have something to offer that makes people want to be in a relationship with you. And I'm not talking money or cars but how do you make them feel? what makes you attractive? attraction is simply how you make other people feel. Which is independent from what they think. If someone is attracted to you, it's because you make them feel a certain way.

Being polite and respectful is not enough to get people to swarm over you, of course its important to be polite and respectful, civilized, the right people will appreciate it. But you can be very nice yet come across as boring. To not be boring you don't have to be a stand-up comedian or entertainer, but at least try to be a pleasant presence to be around, to make people around you feel good or entertained and to be fair, to be a sweet person, to not focus on the self, it's not always about you, to focus outwards, but of course without neglecting yourself, to make a fun and pleasant conversation and take feedback from the other person when they're not interested in a certain subject and change it.

I think that if you're funny, look okay as in average and have common interests you can talk about you should be good. And I think it's better to start off with a friendly attitude rather than heading straight for a relationship.

If you end up always loving people who don't love you while being chased by people you don't like, that's because on the mating market you are an 8, seeking 10 and being lusted after by 6. Even if you get a 9 or 10, in the long-term they are more likely to leave you when someone better comes along and they're more likely to be unfaithful to you, statistically speaking. Turns out, the best solution is to increase your mate value. Physical appearance can be improved by taking care of your face for women and working out for men. Turns out long term mate value is not only physical attractiveness, but the esteem in which other people regard you, your status, reputation, personality, level of intelligence, health, sense of humour.

You can try and read her, but ultimately, you know that trying to read her can only go so far, you will never 100% read her and eventually you'll have to ask her out. But dating is not only about the asking her out, you can also work on yourself so you will have more to offer. Attraction is to make her want you and then she will open up.

We all have our particular preferences, but at the end of the day I think everyone has a collective if not objective standard for attraction. Looks matter, that's why the vast majority of people take care of their looks and image. That's not to say personality and character don't matter. While the first thing we see about a person are their looks, the character matters. To have a good character with sensitivity, a gentle soul, artistic soul, with depth. To be loving. To have a good soul, appreciate what others do for you. To treat people right. To be considerate about the way they feel. To look beyond looks when into dating. To be someone who would not hurt other people. And personality matters. It's important to have fun and pleasant conversations that you both enjoy. To charge people with a positive energy. Of course, you don't have to be over the top, just enough to charge people with a positive energy. It's true that there's a _"bad boys get the girls"_ stereotype, but they like them for other qualities such as having initiative and dignity, not for being a jerk itself, and just like men, there are different types of women, and I think healthy women look for a gentle man, as different women look for different things.

I'm against playing games when it comes to dating and I think the reason some people play games is the fear of loss. It's the idea that the less interested you look, the more interesting you are. Because we humans like to have things we can't have. So by making yourself look less available you will become more valueable. I'm not saying it doesn't work, because it works. But it's not exactly my style to play games. Of course, don't be desperate, as in pushy, the type who calls everyday, always wants to know what the other person is doing and won't leave that person alone when they give clear signs that they are not interested in talking anymore. But I would rather attract someone with what I have, not games, it feels more honest.

If you find that someone may dislike or hate you and you weren't a jerk. Try to be more objective with this, to get in their head rather than yours: Why did they hate you? do you ever question that? You must have a good image about yourself, but consider, think what they think. Because their thoughts may not be in alignment with your thoughts. And they won't hate your for no reason. Even if it's a bad reason to hate you, they would hate you for a reason. Explore that thought: why would people hate you? you may find out what you doesn't like about yourself and realise other people don't have the thoughts you have about you. They won't hate you for no reason, usually it's something grave such as being an ahole or something like that. Or they might not hate you but be bored with you, but you might be a fun and light-hearted person with whom you can have interesting conversations that you both enjoy and are fascinated about.

That's not to say people are saints, but they won't ignore you for no reason either. Most people are agreeable and don't want to make others feel bad. It depends, as there are all kinds of people in a society, it's not always good, but it's not always bad either. Or maybe you need to be more independent mentally. To not always follow the pressure from your family or other people, to be independent and make your own choices. Sometimes it's good to follow the pressure, sometimes it's good not to. To take responsability for your own life. At the end of the day, you can make you happy. You need to be independent if you want to handle yourself in life and take as many opportunities as possible. Sometimes it's okay to bother or upset some people if they intervene in the choices your life, because it's your life, and you have the right to live it.

That's not to say to be inconsiderate to other people, be considerate, but remember that ultimately you live your life, so act in your best interest, you should seek the pursuit of your own happiness, have a strong sense of desire. Not everyone may like your choices, but they don't have to, that's what being independent mentally and not following the pressure from other people is about. Be considerate, but only when you are morally in the wrong, if someone wants to intervene in the choices your life, they have no right to do so, because it's your life. Advice? yes, take advice, but you don't need to please everyone when the stake is how you want to live your life, some people are pushy and want to control everyone, they think they are moral and in the right, but in fact they pressure you to be like they want. If it makes you happy, it's okay if they don't like it. It's kind of a grey area this one and I don't know if I explained myself properly, the summerized version is don't always follow the pressure from your family or other people, be independent, make your own choices.

Ask yourself this: Would you date a person like you? If you were someone of another gender looking at you, would you like yourself?

For example, some women are less about a relationship and more about just fun, when it's not simply about attention. Some women just want a whatever kind of relationship others want a serious relationship. I think smart women, even if they are beautiful, don't want to be loved only for their looks. Women being loved for their looks is the equivalent of men being loved for their money. So there's more than one type of women. You have to ask yourself, what do you want?

When it comes to bad boys/alpha males, they may not like them for their jerkish behavior, they have something else to offer in spite of their jerkish behavior. Guts, initiative, confidence, leadership, social recognition, dignity. And it only works for some women, because not every woman is a primitive who would go for a primitive, there are women who like decent men. So you don't have to be a brute to get the girl, and in most cases, the being a jerk part is a tolerated not the main attribute. Also, most but not all bad boys, are not bad with the woman they want to hook up with, they are bad with other people around them.

Love at first sight is an illusion, where you think the other person or both are perfect. The illusion will eventually come down and then you will see if you're truly getting along and feeling great with each other. Where as real love is when you already know the person, with qualities and flaws, and have accepted them. There's no such thing as love at first sight because you don't actually fall in love with the person at fight sight. You're under that illusion that everything about them is great and they are completely great people and you would completely get along with them if you could be with them. You could call it admiration but not love. People are also on their best behavior at the beginning, but in time you will eventually fall into your natural selves, love is knowing the person, which cannot happen right away, you have to share things about you and the other person about them.

Admiration is when you don't know the person, love is when you know the person. People need to be compatible, to have certain traits and things in common to have a healthy relationship. When that isn't the case, it's possible to have admiration but after you get past the admiration stage of a relationship not have love because you don't have traits and things in common.

Ultimately, I believe you should work on yourself because relationships come down to a question: what do you have to offer? Let's skip the Hollywood image with guy walking from explosion without getting burned or instant and perfect love. If you love someone, you love that person because reasons, that person has something to offer, whether it's looks, having a good character, being funny, having a good reputation, being caring, or whatever is the reason why you like that person. If you like him or her, that person as done its part. If you want to be liked in return, you have to have something to offer in return, you need to do your part as well. See yourself from a 3rd person perspective so you can be more objective. And don't be afraid of new information and new perspectives. Don't be afraid to change your mindset, the way you think matters. It's important about other people they way you and the way they think. The idea is that you must have something more to offer on a more then superficial level, meaning money and cars, to make them like you while showing that you like them for more than what is on the surface, meaning looks.


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## ENTJudgement (Oct 6, 2013)

It's a complete waste of time trying to analyze this coz you're not going to like what you find. People have biology imbedded in their genetics from generations of "evolution" and a lot of "primitive behavior" is on full display, the more you dig into it the more you'll become disgusted at how our "survival instincts" have taught us to be.

Many women have basic traits such as; Hypergamy, looking for a provider but "gives her best years" to the alpha bad boy that treats her like shit and at their worst, a victim mentality.
Many men have basic traits such as; Have sex with anything that has a pulse usually ending up in pump and dumps, emotionally suppressed, poor communication and at their worst, extremely disagreeable and hyper aggression where you want to start a fight with someone just coz he looked at you the wrong way. 

So just live your life and think less about other people, one does not have enough time on this earth to be trying to make a notable difference in the lives of others.


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## Dreamcatcherplaceboeffect (Dec 24, 2020)

I find it interesting that I’m seeing “alpha male” OR being “nice”. The two are NOT mutually exclusive. Some alpha males _are_ nice. Confidence generally makes a man alpha, and while some confident men are jerks—some confident men _are_ nice.

As for being interesting: humor is a plus, but I’d personally rather talk to someone who is well rounded or intelligent. Sometimes humor can feel like a superficial mask for something that is missing, if the humor is practiced or overly pronounced. I’d rather work with zero humor if the humor isn’t genuine.

I think the best way to be interesting, is just to do _more_. Have more experiences. Learn more things. Travel more places. Try out new hobbies. So that you will have something in common with just about anyone you talk to.

Observations I have made about the type of men who fail the most in the dating world:
1) They complain a lot about everything. They have an external locus of control, and never take any personal accountability for their actions, or lack thereof.
2) They fail to do anything that would increase their desirability (such as becoming more interesting, working on hygiene, working on conversational skills). They protest, claiming that self improvement would mean not “being true to themselves”.
3) They have ultra high, unrealistic standards, and, when they do not get the women they want, they villanize the opposite sex.

Women have their own weaknesses, as well, but the aforementioned are repeat offenses I have seen from men who refuse to acknowledge what is holding them back, even when someone directly tells them what their “problem area” is.

As for a partner, I would never want to date myself. I don’t mean this in a disparaging or self-critical way. I’m pretty comfortable with myself and I think I’d enjoy having myself as a good friend, but I have to have a partner who is very different than myself—someone more practical and grounded; someone who is able to assert themselves when needed... and that certainly isn’t me! Lol

I managed to find my husband, who would generally be considered an “alpha” male in _most_ social circles, (although I guess that is technically subjective, depending on who else is present). He is _nice_ (unless you give him a reason not to be). And he is very different in personality than myself, being an ESTX to my INFX.

I definitely think it’s fine to have high standards if you’re generally healthy and have a lot to offer. I think a lot of peoples’ expectations are a bit too high though, and they expect to find someone better than themselves (or they tend to overestimate themselves or what they have to offer).


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## goodvibe (Aug 23, 2013)

Women prefer nice guys that are strong and intelligent over jerks.


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## Squirt (Jun 2, 2017)

Oh, nice guys.






I have a lot of sympathy for dudes that get confused about what women want.


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## 17041704 (May 28, 2020)

idk I don't really have any strong opinions or stuff to add but the same thing keep coming back to me as I'm reading this thread so maybe I should just share it here.

My SO repeatedly stressed from time to time that a man doesn't need to be hardcore or alpha. A man can even be insensitive at times, but he should never be whiny and keep babbling about trivial stuff. That's her view as a woman.

My view is people deserve each other simply that lol.


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## Samael1 (Mar 4, 2021)

Well this is a fun topic! 
Loathe as I am to resort to gender disparity, as despite biochemical differences that do effect certain psychological proclivities I believe the vast majority of gender discrepancies are socially ingrained (indoctrinated) and not innate. Modern western trends in "tom boys" and "metrosexuals" are evidence of this, never mind the rise in numbers of transgenders. 
But, loathe as I am toward sexist stereotyping, I think, concerning the "general" @ENTJudgement nailed it (save that, again, I blame societal evolution more than biological evolution).

I saw a scene of Sex in the City once, a show written for women and popular for years to a predominantly female audience, in which it was said that one character was dating an "on paper" boyfriend, which meant that he was perfect on paper and everything a woman says she wants in a man, but ultimately dumps him for somebody with tattoos a motorcyle and no job. 
In relation, I once mentioned to someone in flirting with me, who falsely pegged me as a "player" that in truth I usually get dumped/rejected for douchebag "bad boy" types, and she said, "let me guess--STPs, right?" After consideration, I realized she was spot on. And her MBTI description overlapped with the Sarah Jessica Parker description in every instance. 

Anyway, I have a bevy of anecdotes, as most of my friends have been women or nerdy males, but an interesting one includes a "work spouse" I had once whose boyfriend was a complete selfish jackass. She came to work gushing once about how great he was because when he insisted on watching a game instead of watching the movie she wanted to, when his team was losing badly he gave her the remote and said she could watch her movie, and left. She actually convinced herself this was sweet and romantic, simply because it was in contrast to his usual selfishness. And I have seen this so many times... in both genders. (yes, men are subject to trauma bonds too, and after reading enough BPD victim recovery crap online, I'm almost inclined to say even more so) 

An outright funny anecdote is that I once saw a very pretty, classy, well-poised young woman at a grocery store wearing a shirt written all over with Shakespeare quotes. Any attraction was obliterated when her boyfriend caught up to her, tripping over his pants, that he had to hold to the right boxer/pants ratio while maintaining his ghetto swagger. The fact I see the exact same thing, but in different genre descriptions, of people twenty years older does not inspire hope or faith in the species. 

As for confusing alpha with "bad boys" this is, again, a societal AND evolutionary folly.
In animals, the alpha is usually the biggest, as the greatest will will develop in the most consistent ability to back that will with overt force. In humans, this seems to be the case on initial attraction, big muscular cocky types being assumed as alpha males. Yet two of the biggest people I've known, being nearly 7 feet tall, were both kinda shy and reserved introverts, who let women walk all over them. Meanwhile, guys shorter than me have been bona fide "players" who were worshipepd by treating women as disposable toys. 
People who are abused tend to ascribe a kind of omnipotence to their abusers, thinking a poodle who has reduced their self-esteem and exploited their weaknesses must have the same power over people who could easily step on his neck and make him squeal (women who think they are with "alphas" are usually with weaklings and cowards who only demonstrate such strength over those with whom they can get away with it--meaning said woman, and offspring) 

And to use myself as an example in my list of trend-examples, I am a "metrosexual." A girl once said to me that it's silly for there to even be a label depicting heteros who don't conform to standard gender behaviour, and I agree, but true to form, I am a nerd, I read and discuss nerdy shit for pleasure, I dress nice, I watch opera and anime and play video games, cook gourmet meals, sip chianti and absinthe while listening to classical music and reading classical literature, and train in martial arts dedicated to killing people with maximum efficiency...
wait... what? 
Want to know how to survive an abusive military upbringing AND school, being in a gifted program and chess club, despite all the things I just listed? With the last part. In Japanese, the term for natural presence from prolonged training is "kigurai" and it pairs nicely with the stereotypical "steam roller" effect ENTJs are said to have concerning obstacles. As for "alpha" behaviour, I, even out of practice and after leaving public fields, find myself adopting "power poses" that body language specialists say (especially when they are adopted unconsciously) demonstrate confidence. When I have company, I often don't notice my body language until somebody else mirrors it. So you want to be an alpha? Don't join idiotic sexist reddit groups of rejected boys validating each other about how to all be alphas together by subjectifying humans with different sex organs.
Now to the point: That last paragraph was about alpha psychology, not alpha sociology. Peterson will tell you, at length, being an alpha is all about being on the upswing of the Gini coeficient and one's relation to the herd. Which is why women (in general) love badasses (as formerly covered), right? Who have no actual social power, yet demonstrate psychological power over them... right? 
Huuuuuuuh? 
So which is it? Are men supposed to be finanically successful? Physically powerful? Psychologically powerful? Fe powerful (AKA "Nice"). Waste your time adapting to what one wants just to learn somebody else wants something different. OMG?! Maybe learning to be "alpha" as in content in yourself will be more rewarding _personally_ than looking for rewards by trying to fit all the world's vaginas into a box. Anybody who thinks that all women think the same or want the same thing needs to clear up their mommy issues before even considering attempting a relationship. 

To expound on using myself as an example, given the aforementioned social ambivalence of character, a girl at a party once made a snarky comment at first sight, snidely asking my roommate why he'd brought some uptight preppy. Later, she saw me demonstrating butterfly knife tricks to her brother, and I had the satisfaction of being the dismissive asshole who didn't want anything to do with a ghetto skank as she previously didn't want anything to do with a "preppy." 
Likewise, self-conscious as I was (remain) at my hair thinning, I have the same face (plus aging) the same van **** beard (plus gray), significantly LESS social/economic success than I used to, yet I get MORE attention from women with the Heisenberg skull than I did with the Wall Street look. 

Further, niceness vs "bad boy" (leaving "alpha" out of this one, as it's been covered)
Again, using myself as an example 
I've been compared to this, but with kids=pets/loved ones 




Funny thing is, women will court me agressively when I'm happily single and assume a kind of douchey aloofness, and even be labeled a player because of it. But the ones who get close enough to earn special treatment, to the point of being put on a pedastal and I rewrite my script to fit them and their changeable whims into it... and then they walk all over me. Push me to the point I draw a line in the sand, and like Odin to Thor/Yahweh to Job say "this far and no further," or in a more entertaining fiction, like Gandalf or the Black Knight say "You shall not pass," and then.... they do everything in their power, debasing themselves in utmost desperation to win me back, to convince me they will never do such again... until I give them that chance. And repeat. 
Peterson said that The Beauty and the Beast fable is so enduring because it's core to the female psyche and concept of romance. Of reforming the monster and socializing Him into something socially palatable, less bestial, warlike and antisocial. Fables tend to gloss over that there are no happily ever afters in stories that keep unfolding. Only somebody who remains a beast but with glimpses of domestication to bait out continued effort could keep repeating this story, else one of the characters needs replacing, like a soap opera trade-out. (and likewise goes for the [stereotypical] male ideal of a princess in need of rescuing; teach them to fend for themselves and the bonding experience ends with her no longer needing an armed guardian) 


Long story short: It has nothing to do with gender. Some people are more concerned with social roles, some are more concerned with repeating childhood patterns, some are more concerned with repeating observed parental syzygystic patterns they mythologize, some are just batshitcrazy, and there are some genuinely good people in the world, and most of them have probably died young to causes that weren't worthy of them (relationship or otherwise).


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## med_stoodent (Mar 5, 2021)

Well my boyfriend with whom I live is a nice guy. He is a little quiet and I had to pursue him first, but he is also incredibly loyal and was committed from the start.
Until that point I usually sought out people with views differing from mine, other extroverts who I could get into passionate debates with. But I had to realize that constantly living life like this will not work out - you need common ground to build a life and family together.

I think the problem of many people is that they seek their partner to be the main stimulation they get. When they go into a relationship, they want their partner to provide everything: friendship, romance, passion, conflict, etc. And the stereotypical "nice person" is not exciting enough for that. But it doesn't work. One person cannot be your entire world. We've been sold this idea and it sticks to us like burned food in a pot.
I also found that it was good to seek someone with a different understanding of love and family. His parents' marriage was arranged (not forced!) thus the outlook on marriage is different for him. You look for someone you're compatible with, who you like, who your goals match up with, who shares your values - and then you let love grow. It's not the head-over-heels feeling we've been conditioned to seek by TV shows and movies.

So I think that is one of the biggest problems why people who are just "nice" have a hard time finding a partner: We place too much emphasis on chemistry in the West (which comes from conflict, being different, playing games, etc.) and not enough on compatibility. We expect everything to be instant. But this applies to the "nice people" themselves as well, they often seek out those who are exciting, not the people whom they could lead a life with.

(That is all to say if you're dating to find a life partner.)


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## Dezir (Nov 25, 2013)

Dreamcatcherplaceboeffect said:


> I find it interesting that I’m seeing “alpha male” OR being “nice”. The two are NOT mutually exclusive. Some alpha males _are_ nice. Confidence generally makes a man alpha, and while some confident men are jerks—some confident men _are_ nice.
> 
> As for being interesting: humor is a plus, but I’d personally rather talk to someone who is well rounded or intelligent. Sometimes humor can feel like a superficial mask for something that is missing, if the humor is practiced or overly pronounced. I’d rather work with zero humor if the humor isn’t genuine.
> 
> ...


That confidence is alpha and one can be either confident and a jerk or confident and gentle is an interesting and informative take. Confidence is indeed an attractive trait, because it shows you know what you're doing. Even if in reality you might not have any idea what you're doing, the fact that you show you know what you're doing makes other people think you know what you're doing. But confidence shows initiative, generally good trait. One can have initiative yet still be a gentle person.

You also make a good point about the importance of a good attitude that would lift people up. Not necessarly a positive attitude, as that would mean _"only good things will happen to me"_, and false optimism isn't good, but a good attitude, being social and laughing and smiling. Nothing over the top. It makes people feel good. Attitude is contagious, it can either make people feel energized or downed, depending on the attitude of those arounds them. We transfer and adopt attitudes. And I think an attitude that makes people around you feel good can make you more wannable. On the opposite side of the spectrum, people who complain a lot about everything, will only transfer a downer energy, and people won't like it.

You also make a great point that they fail to do things that would increase their desirability: becoming more interesting, working on hygiene and conversational skills; because it will not be _"true to themselves"_ when in fact who you are is what you do, or who you are is what you like. Both, especially the former, can change in some measure. Who you are is not set in stone, and sometimes who you are can be bad so you need to change it. You are _"true to yourself"_ when you refuse to give in to pressure from other people. You are not _"true to yourself"_ when you refuse to stop doing things that are bad for you. It's important to have willpower, it offers you healthy habbits and a healthy routine. Be strong mentally and physically. And blaming the opposite gender for their failures is quite lowly, they don't look at themselves, but instead look at the other person.

Being grounded and intelligent makes you interesting, indeed. I would also add to not be superficial, as in mostly interested in looks when talking to a woman, as most women are not interested in that kind of thing. That isn't the case for women who go for alpha males but is the case for women who like decent men. While looks matter, one should look beyond looks too when talking to a woman, trying to get to know her.

You also make a great point that being interesting ultimately means doing more so you will have something in common with just about anyone you talk to. And that is a indeed an important factor. People need to be compatible, to have certain traits and things in common. But at the end of the day, if up to you to find subjects you both enjoy talking about. You can ask her about herself while also saying some things about yourself. Asking _"what are your hobbies?"_ is rather cliche, but you can ask the same question in an indirect way: what do you like to do in your free time? have you travelled lately? what do you work as? do you like it there? what kind of movies are you watching? ask them about themselves, and they will reveal their interests.

You need to have something to offer that makes people want to be in a relationship with you. And I'm not talking money or cars but what makes you attractive? Attraction is about how you make them feel. You have to be attractive in some ways. Attraction is not a choice, we don't choose who we love, we love simply because we feel like it. It's more about how you make others feel than what they think.

Being polite and respectful is not enough to get people to swarm over you, of course its important to be polite and respectful. And this of course will be appreciated by the right people, people who also have a good character, but you can be very nice yet come across as boring, so you won't be dating material. To not be boring you don't have to be a stand-up comedian or entertainer, but at least try to make a fun and pleasant conversation and to take feedback from the other person when they're not interested in a certain subject and change it. I think that if you're funny, look okay as in average and have common interests that you can talk about you should be good.

Of course, everyone can be polite and respectful, but the closer you are with a person, the more you can afford with them and the more of their true colors they'll show. If you want to see what they really are like, look for how they behave with those they have nothing to gain from.

And I think it's better to start off with a friendly attitude rather than heading straight for a relationship. Because it allows people to be more relaxed and get to know each other better until you eventually ask her out. When the goal is a relationship, you already impose some standards and there is some tension.

Looks matter. Character and personality matter but the first thing you see about a person are the looks. So no matter how overly idealistic some people try to be, they are actually wrong. Looks matter, that's why the vast majority of people take care of their looks and image. Other things matter, such as having a fun and pleasant conversation with that person, to talk about interesting stuff you both enjoy.

We like people because they have certain qualities that makes us feel good around them, either in how they make us feel or the values they exhibit, even when we are not aware of those things. It can grow into care for that other person, as in love, but initially we care about looks, then character and personality.

Physical appearance can be improved by taking care of your face for women and working out for men. But long term mate value is not only physical attractiveness, but the esteem in which other people regard you, your status, reputation, personality, level of intelligence, health, sense of humour.

But attraction is not only about looks. Looks matter, of course, but looks aren't everything. Attraction is a way of being. People that are calm and make others feel included are attractive. People who are acute and conflictual are not. People who are fun and pleasant will probably come across as attractive. People that you have things in common with are attractive. People who are funny are attractive.

Dating experts advertise against being needy, but that's only as far as the dating process goes, once she is your girlfriend, you are free to be needy with each other, that's the test of the relationship. Dating is a phase where you get to know each other, dating doesn't mean you have to marry that person. But a relationship should mean being there for one another. That's the point of love, to help one another when you're insecure, to lift the other up when he or she is feeling down.

In short, it's important to be polite and respectful but also an attractive person. Good people appreciate being nice. Ask her about herself while also saying some things about yourself. Find the subjects that would lift them up. One of the things people are guaranteed to love to talk about is themselves. Attraction is not exclusively about looks. Attraction is having things in common. Attraction is being funny. Attraction is having a good attitude that would lift people up. Attraction is more about how you make others feel than what they think.


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## Rainbowrama (May 30, 2018)

Dezir said:


> It's an eternal question, we have all heard this stereotype: Bad boys/alpha males get the girl. Nice guys don't get the girls. A lot of men live by this, and I assume they have good reason too, as a lot of women must live by this too for this to work. But not every woman, you can be attractive without being an alpha male. There are women with sensitivity who value a good soul, showing sensitivity, honesty about interests and tastes, happy and energetic attitude that's silly and spicy, sharing a secret and being a confidant, being romantic and intimate, as in being able to be yourself around them without fear of being judged, being interested in personal development, being tender and offering terribly specific gifts. I think the most accurate way to say it is: bad boys/alpha males get some girls. Because there are women who value romance and care.
> 
> It's easy to generalize women and say all they want is bad boys, just like it's easy to generalize men and say all the want is to use women. As a man, it's easy to see that this is not true and there are all kinds of men, but it's harder not to generalize for the other group. Just like there are caring and non-caring men, there are women interested in romance and care. What about them? they appreciate men who are polite and respectful. Men with a gentle soul. With a good soul, who appreciate what others do you for them. Who are civilized. Other traits matter as well, such as guts, initiative, confidence, dignity. Confidence still matters a lot. Confidence is certainity, if you act confident it makes people think you know what you're doing, even in the event that you don't.
> 
> ...


You just described healthy masculinity there my friend. 
Aggressiveness doesn’t mean one have strength.
Dominance doesn’t mean one have courage.
Muffling your sensitive side doesn’t mean you have balls.

Sensitive, kind, caring men, now THESE are HOT AF. 😍


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## under skies (Jun 9, 2010)

I'm not quoting anyone because this isn't directed at anyone in particular. This is just my two cents on the topic of alpha men vs. sensitive men. I see a lot of heterosexual men struggling with this, and I just wish you guys could understand how much of an issue it really isn't. (As a disclaimer, I live in the United States, and your local culture will likely influence your views on this topic.)

Obviously, some women do go for "bad boy" types, and the character tropes exist in movies and TV shows for a reason. That said, tropes and archetypes are exaggerated depictions of real life that are meant to entertain us. Ask yourself how often you make important life choices the way fictional characters do.

Women are indisputably attracted to all different types of men. I think a good example of this is how boy bands were created in the '90s. Lou Pearlman, who created the Backstreet Boys and N*SYNC, specifically chose guys to fill different character archetypes for both groups because he understood that the target demographic would have different "types." If you ask anyone who has ever liked a boy band, they could probably tell you who their favorite was. Also, if you seriously believe women don't like emotional men, listen to, like, 3 songs from any boy band. If women didn't like sensitive men, how would those boy bands have ever become that successful? Those men were NOT "alpha men"--at least not what I think of when I hear that phrase. They were obviously well loved. As someone who LOVED the Backstreet Boys growing up, I _DREAMED_ of a man baring his soul to me, and those songs were like crack to my little lady brain.

Don't assume that because you've encountered one, two, or five people who behaved a certain way and shared a certain characteristic that that's how everybody with that characteristic is. Correlation does not imply causation. If you see a pattern in your life, think about every possible explanation and don't just assume it's the one that's most obvious to you.

Further, I don't recommend making serious inferences about others' character based on how they're dressed. You're going to make a lot of incorrect assumptions, which is a huge disservice to yourself and others.


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## Dezir (Nov 25, 2013)

under skies said:


> I'm not quoting anyone because this isn't directed at anyone in particular. This is just my two cents on the topic of alpha men vs. sensitive men. I see a lot of heterosexual men struggling with this, and I just wish you guys could understand how much of an issue it really isn't. (As a disclaimer, I live in the United States, and your local culture will likely influence your views on this topic.)
> 
> Obviously, some women do go for "bad boy" types, and the character tropes exist in movies and TV shows for a reason. That said, tropes and archetypes are exaggerated depictions of real life that are meant to entertain us. Ask yourself how often you make important life choices the way fictional characters do.
> 
> ...


Very nice 2 cents, thank you for your input. The archetypes of alpha men vs. sensitive men are exaggerated. And character archetypes are meant to target a certain demographic that would have different "types".

This is more common than you think, because society, at least in US tells men that _"you have to be strong"_, _"you have to be an alpha male"_, _"being sensitive is girly and unattractive"_. But you are right, women do like sensitive men.

Movies and TV shows also go very wrongly about love. They focus on that instant love from moment 0 based mostly on looks. People who meet and instantly click with each other. Love is when you fall in love with their personality, love is when you like the person they are.

Of course, looks matter, that's why the vast majority of people take care of their looks and image. A good character matters. Character is to treat people right, to take into account how other people feel and not wish to make them feel bad. Showing sensitivity is attractive, depths of feeling, girls with sensitivity like men who show that they look beyond looks and appreciate the person they are. It's also important to have a good attitude that would lift people up, we create good vibes around us.

Being honest about the things you like and dislike, about your interests and tastes and opinions, is attractive. It gets to show you are as a person, what you like and dislike. But don't try to brag or seem different to impress her. Don't try to pretend you're someone you're not. And don't always follow pressure from other people.

You don't have to insist on her. You just have to be great around her. Make yourself likeable by making the other person feel pleasant around you. Eventually you can talk about deep stuff, transition from small talk to big talk. Have an honest discussion, share, open your hearts to various that bothers you or her or talk about various issues in the world or with other people.

Helping her would be appreciated, when she has an issue or problem offering to help can be quite romantic even if it doesn't look as such. It shows common sense. It shows decency. You got to have some confident traits but not mean-spirited traits: daring, courage to go and ask, to take initiative, imposing, courage to stand up for yourself when wronged, confidence, looking like you know what you're doing.

You do have to have some pride of your own as well, a backbone, but not so much dignity that you become too rigid and won't help them with anything, won't listen or consult anyone or won't be willing to talk except about the subjects you like. It's also okay to have doubts. It's better to be in doubt than to believe false information. It's better to stop a think than to assume you already have the solution when you don't actually.

To avoid the friendzone, you need to be their friend but also have something attractive so that they would want to be next to you meaning together with you, to be something hot. Not only good, be hot and good. You can make her feel great by being caring, helping her and showing her that you're being there for her. You can also make her feel great by being funny, the goofy humor, making fun of situational things.

Charisma and looks make you attractive. Charisma is to know how to make atmosphere. To be a great presence around her to create attraction, to make her feel good when talking to and interacting with you, as you can't just be not interested and boring. To not show much romantic interest towards them directly, as that leads to less attraction, but to give hints you're interested, and to be a warm and engaging and fun presence around them and with them.

Going over the top with the declaration of your feelings you might lose the attraction, so you have to keep it in check, at least in the early stages of a relationship until it grows and you become official boyfriend or girlfriend. But I don't mean starting as friends and being friends for 1 year or even 3 months. By that time, she is already used to you as a friend, and frankly, if you never communicated otherwise, how could you ever expect otherwise.

You can be just friends initially with a hint of romantic interest. You can show your romantic interest in indirect ways and see how she responds. Communicating that you're interested in her without outright saying her and seeing how she responds, take the feedback and judge the situation from there.

Either in the way you treat her, treating her like she is someone you are romantically interested in, with care, softness and doing small favors, like holding the door and stuff like that. Eventually, she will figure it out and offer social clues feedback if she enjoys it or not. 

Or in the way you talk to her, with subtext that can be interpreted otherwise and makes it clear you're interested in her. Something that she knows subconsciously it's man to woman and not just friends, but you don't outright say it. In a way, you give hints, see her reaction and only ask her out when it's very clear she will say yes.

Because not automatically telling her you like and want to go out with her buys you more time to convey your personality. And I don't mean not showing romantic interest in terms of some extravagant thing like "I love you" on the first date or "I can't stop thinking about you" but a small declaration that indicates she is a dating interest like "I think you're cute and would like to talk to you" or "I noticed you". Because that feels like putting your cards on the table and making them lose interest.

Which is why rather than making your romantic interest clear right away, which may result in loss of attraction, you could simply go talk to her without making anything about a relationship, you can be just friends initially with a hint of romantic interest. Interact for a while, and after she feels comfortable enough with you and you know each other a bit, ask for a date, which then makes your romantic interest clear so there's no need to say it.

But even then, when you are dating, you can go for small things like "I think you're cute" or "I noticed that about you and I like it", but keep the big things like "I love you" or "I can't stop thinking about you" for when you are already in a established official relationship and she is your girlfriend or he is your boyfriend. 

You can have an indirect approach and be this nice guy with a polite and informal approach, asking her if she knows good any places to visit or whatever, like "hi, I'm a tourist in Berlin, do you know any good places to visit?", then on some other occasion when you're talking or if you randomly meet her, be inviting, asking her if she would like to come with you somewhere "would you like to come with me?", and be courteous like "thank you for telling me about that thing", but make jokes or non-serious talks that imply indirect attraction the indirect type "no, this is not for girls like you" and if she responds positively it's a sign she likes you, also make your move when she gives hints that she likes you. As you realise she likes you, or if she also reveals it in an indirect way like "do you want to come to the park?", "ok, my cuite" while smiling at you, you can make a big dramatic gesture like going up and trying to kiss her.

This gesture of going up and trying to kiss her after she gives you a hint that makes you realise she likes you, basically declaring that she is in love with you but in an indirect way, can be very romantic. It can be as simple as watching a movie and she says she doesn't like it, then you are like "why are you watching it if you don't like it?", "because you are watching it", "what?", "I watch it because you are watching it" and then go to kiss her. With that she is basically saying "I don't like this movie, but I watch it because I'm in love with you" and you like it/would rather spend time with you watching something I don't like. Obviously, don't be stupid with this, context matters, it's a bold move so you need to be aware of your surroundings as well as be fairly aware based on the social clues that the girl is indeed revealing it in a semi-direct way that she likes you, rather than just saying it as whatever, her facial expressions and tonality matter. You need to be fairly certain that the girl is indeed giving you a hint that she likes you, declaring that she is in love with you but in an indirect way, based on her facial expressions and tonality, because if this goes badly it's very awkward.

Seek to be interested in people, go and talk to them, to make relationships, to communicate, to get interest from people if they know other people who could help you. To call that one, that one, that one, and so on. If you don't make a move you will lose. Human relationships are pretty on the face, what you see is what you get. Make people feel seen.

People like to talk about themselves and their own interests. If you can't guess their interests, ask people about their hobbies without asking them about their hobbies. Ask "what you like doing in your free time?", "have you been to some cool places lately?" and such. It's good to be romantic and to please her but once you are already familiar with each other or already in a relationship. Doing that from the first date comes across as too much. Take it easy, get to know each other.

Feelings don't change easily from one day to another. They change gradually. So if she liked you a lot today, she won't dump you tomorrow. If so far she gave you no reason to have doubts it's okay, if she does give you reason to have doubts communicate with her. People won't dislike you for no reason. Other people also have common sense. People do not start from the premise "I dislike this person" and you have to make yourself likeable.

Trying to help the other person or share a secret would make them trust you. Being a trustworthy confidant whom you can talk about more private issues. Soft and serious, talking about feelings, how they really feeling about things, not exclusively dating but how you feel about various things you don't like and feel bad about. In order to have a healthy relationship it's a must to be a friend. I don't see a relationship as something different from a friendship, but as an extra to a friendship.

I think the recipe of success in life is: looking good. It makes you feel better, it makes you be more confident, equipped with an okay character, not bragger, not jerk, not with guts. Confidence is indeed an attractive trait, because it shows you know what you're doing, confidence shows initiative, generally good trait. One can have initiative yet still be a gentle person.

First you are attracted by someone physically, their looks and image, then you start talking to them and get to know them, and if it happens you fall in love with their personality. Eventually, make her feel entertained by laughing with each other. And when the situation calls for it, be open to talk about feelings.

Showing your dedicated attention to her, that is probably the most romantic one yet, and the most romantically attractive, giving specific gifts that are very particular to her. It shows special attention in her, you could not have given it to anyone else, your interest is specifically in her, and that is very romantic.

There's an even more romantically attractive move that is above giving specific gifts that are very particular to her, finding an unmet need and filling it in a way that has never been done before, fixing something in her life that makes her unhappy. It also makes you feel understood. There's something very powerful about feeling understood. We would like people to understand us, not only date interests, but people in general.

It also says: I like you just the way you are, I appreciate you just the way you are. It's not about trying to improve them, but about showing them that you appreciate them, and making it about them, not you. A gesture that would truly show them you care, a gesture that would touch her, specifically and particullary made for her. Wouldn't you want to be in a relationship with someone who has shown that he cares about you in such great lenghts? Not told as an idea, not guessed as a concept, that you see him as an okay buy, but someone that has shown it. Talk to them, and have one of those serious discussions about life, everyone has something that makes them unhappy. We want someone who cares about us, not just says it, but means it, someone that we also like.

This dichtonomy between alpha men and sensitive men is not always true. To get girls to like you, you got to have some confident traits but not mean-spirited traits. Some sort of alpha traits: daring, courage to go and ask, to take initiative, imposing, courage to stand up for yourself when wronged, confidence, looking like you know what you're doing. You can be a good alpha male, an alpha male with common sense, without having a mean-spirited, bitter, cruel side.

Obivously, there's some fear about this as coming across as weak or needy or unmasculine. It's not unmasculine to help, not only to help the girl you want to get to like you, but helping people in general. It shows common sense. It shows decency.

You have to have some pride of your own as well, a backbone, to not allow yourself to get the short end of the stick or be humiliarated or even jokingly stand up for yourself when it comes to small things like when you're playing a game. To not end up a press to wipe on foot and end up getting used by women, you need to have some dignity as well. But not so much dignity that you become too rigid and won't help them with anything, won't listen or consult anyone or won't be willing to talk except about the subjects you like.

Don't get me wrong, having some pride and standing up for yourself doesn't mean you have to be this aggressive brute always willing for a fight, it's not that black and white. Don't insult anyone, don't bother anyone, don't talk stupid of anyone, keep your character. Prefer to avoid conflict, don't bother anyone. Not because you can't stand up for you, but because it's better to avoid it. It's better to not have bad business, if you don't have bad business why are you jumping for a fight?

It's also okay to have doubts. Doubts are good. It's good to have, doubts. It's better to be in doubt than to sustain a false cause. It's better to be in doubt than to believe false information. People are afriad of doubt, because they focus on having confidence. Don't be, it's good to have doubts. You can have confidence and have doubts as well. You can have doubts about various issues in the world, it's better to stop a think than to assume you already have the solution when you don't actually, doubts or not knowing it's not unattractive but human.


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## Rathalos (Aug 25, 2021)

"Bad boys" only work if you're handsome, appealing or influential. Anyone of those three, there's no such thing as ugly bad boy that's also not appealing and that have no influence. But there will always be girls who fall in love or lust with a person most people don't find attractive, they are the outliers.


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## ENFPathetic (Apr 3, 2018)

Rathalos said:


> "Bad boys" only work if you're handsome, appealing or influential. Anyone of those three, there's no such thing as ugly bad boy that's also not appealing and that have no influence. But there will always be girls who fall in love or lust with a person most people don't find attractive, they are the outliers.


I've tried to explain this so many times and it always felt like I needed to write a book to get the point across. Yet here you are breaking it all down in 3 sentences. What a fucking genius!


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## Rathalos (Aug 25, 2021)

ENFPathetic said:


> I've tried to explain this so many times and it always felt like I needed to write a book to get the point across. Yet here you are breaking it all down in 3 sentences. What a fucking genius!


Yeah apparently people think "bad boy" is a thing when in reality they are just handsome, appealing or influential. With a borderline sociopathic or *psychopathic* tendencies. 


Also thanks for the compliment haha


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## Rathalos (Aug 25, 2021)

ENFPathetic said:


> I've tried to explain this so many times and it always felt like I needed to write a book to get the point across. Yet here you are breaking it all down in 3 sentences. What a fucking genius!


Same principle applies with:

If Handsome: Secret Admirer
If Ugly: Stalker
If Handsome: "Bad Boy"
If Ugly: Rude POS
If Handsome: Sexy
If Ugly: Sex maniac.

And so on


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## ENFPathetic (Apr 3, 2018)

Rathalos said:


> Yeah apparently people think "bad boy" is a thing when in reality they are just handsome, appealing or influential. With a borderline sociopathic or *psychopathic* tendencies.
> 
> 
> Also thanks for the compliment haha


Credit where credit is due. You're welcome.


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## pwowq (Aug 7, 2016)

Dezir said:


> It's an eternal question, we have all heard this stereotype: Bad boys/alpha males get the girl. Nice guys don't get the girls. A lot of men live by this, and I assume they have good reason too, as a lot of women must live by this too for this to work.


But why do people think like this. The notion is simply wrong.

The alpha-beta-omega shit is bullshit.


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## Rathalos (Aug 25, 2021)

pwowq said:


> But why do people think like this. The notion is simply wrong.
> 
> The alpha-beta-omega shit is bullshit.



It's because it's observable truth? Like it happens in real life with real people? You think a gal will choose a popular bad boy over a loner nerd? lmao


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## pwowq (Aug 7, 2016)

Rathalos said:


> It's because it's observable truth? Like it happens in real life with real people? You think a gal will choose a popular bad boy over a loner nerd? lmao


The older you get the less you care about it.


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## Rathalos (Aug 25, 2021)

pwowq said:


> The older you get the less you care about it.


Sure the older you get the less option you have specially on girls cause they have what we call "expiration date" Sexist i know but that's facts. But it'll be stupid of you to say that if they have an option they'll choose a loser loner nerd over a popular handsome/beautiful guy/girl. 

Sometimes facts are hard to accept but do try


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## Queen of Cups (Feb 26, 2010)

Nice with an agenda is not nice. I paid attention not only to how I was treated, but how they treated others. Superficial niceness is manipulative AF, but you can tell a genuinely good person in how they interact with people that they aren’t trying to get something from. 
I tend to attract the stereotypical “bad boy” but they always reeked of drama and a headache.


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## Rathalos (Aug 25, 2021)

Queen of Cups said:


> View attachment 886081
> 
> 
> Nice with an agenda is not nice. I paid attention not only to how I was treated, but how they treated others. Superficial niceness is manipulative AF, but you can tell a genuinely good person in how they interact with people that they aren’t trying to get something from.
> I tend to attract the stereotypical “bad boy” but they always reeked of drama and a headache.


Since we can't prove this claim "I tend to attract the stereotypical “bad boy”" we will just ignore it, also nice with an agenda is miles better than outright lewd and rude bad boy attitude, at least the nice with an agenda guy have the dignity to lie to you about how trash he is.


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## Queen of Cups (Feb 26, 2010)

Rathalos said:


> Since we can't prove this claim "I tend to attract the stereotypical “bad boy”" we will just ignore it, also nice with an agenda is miles better than outright lewd and rude bad boy attitude, at least the nice with an agenda guy have the dignity to lie to you about how trash he is.


I avoided both of those tbh I don’t want to be lied to and I had no time for dudes who were assholes or users. 

Just be a decent human being. It’s not hard.


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## Rathalos (Aug 25, 2021)

Queen of Cups said:


> I avoided both of those tbh I don’t want to be lied to and I had no time for dudes who were assholes or users.
> 
> Just be a decent human being. It’s not hard.


Again since we can't prove your claim that you "avoid" them that claim is void. Lmao but i'll bet my bottom dollar that if a "bad boy" who is exactly your physical type you'll be head over heels with them.


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## Queen of Cups (Feb 26, 2010)

Rathalos said:


> Again since we can't prove your claim that you "avoid" them that claim is void. Lmao but i'll bet my bottom dollar that if a "bad boy" who is exactly your physical type you'll be head over heels with them.


You’d lose. _shrugs_


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## Rathalos (Aug 25, 2021)

Queen of Cups said:


> You’d lose. _shrugs_


Tell that to yourself so you can sleep better at night. lmao jk  anyways we have anonymity so why lie? Shit man if a "bad gir"(whatever this means) who is exactly the replica of my dream girl approach me and wants to have a relationship with me you're telling me i'll turn her down because that's literally what you're telling me right now.


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## Queen of Cups (Feb 26, 2010)

Rathalos said:


> Tell that to yourself so you can sleep better at night. lmao jk  anyways we have anonymity so why lie? Shit man if a "bad gir"(whatever this means) who is exactly the replica of my dream girl approach me and wants to have a relationship with me you're telling me i'll turn her down because that's literally what you're telling me right now.


I think we are talking about two different things. 
Bad boys to me don’t want relationships, they want sex while stringing you along and treating you like shit. And that’s never been my scene.
Which brings up another issue in quantifying “nice guy” and “bad boy”.

I married an estj type 8. He’s not a bad boy or a nice guy. He’s genuinely one the best people you’ll ever meet.


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## mia-me (Feb 5, 2021)

Bad boys can be fun to play with but I haven't and wouldn't have a relationship or even have sex with one. I've always fallen for nerds, regardless of looks.


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## Rathalos (Aug 25, 2021)

mia-me said:


> Bad boys can be fun to play with but I haven't and wouldn't have a relationship or even have sex with one. I've always fallen for nerds, regardless of looks.



Sure since we're listing things in make believe fashion i too would love to bench 500kg with 1 hand.


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## mia-me (Feb 5, 2021)

Rathalos said:


> Sure since we're listing things in make believe fashion i too would love to bench 500kg with 1 hand.


Relative to psychology, people tend to believe what they want which is most often convenient 'truths' since it fits their narrative. With this in mind, I can't be arsed to defend my post.


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## Rathalos (Aug 25, 2021)

mia-me said:


> Relative to psychology, people tend to believe what they want which is most often convenient 'truths' since it fits their narrative. With this in mind, I can't be arsed to defend my post.


Nah, who wanna waste time on someone who even with anonymity still lies and incapable of telling the truth.


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## mia-me (Feb 5, 2021)

Rathalos said:


> Nah, who wanna waste time on someone who even with anonymity still lies and incapable of telling the truth.


You go, boy or...girl!


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## Rathalos (Aug 25, 2021)

mia-me said:


> You go, boy or...girl!


Thanks thing


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## mia-me (Feb 5, 2021)

Rathalos said:


> Thanks thing


It was my pleasure. I know you, regardless of which socks you wear.


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## Infinitus (Jul 12, 2019)

I prefer a lover with which I can intertwine souls, as we gaze up in a warm embrace, beneath the starry sky, but if she so much as looks at another man lustfully, I will knock her around and make passes at her friends, until she learns to respect my manhood.

I think that covers all bases.


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## Scoobyscoob (Sep 4, 2016)

Infinitus said:


> I prefer a lover with which I can intertwine souls, as we gaze up in a warm embrace, beneath the starry sky, but if she so much as looks at another man lustfully, I will knock her around and make passes at her friends, until she learns to respect my manhood.
> 
> I think that covers all bases.


Aww how sweet then shockingly terrifying. 🤣


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

edit: I wasn't intending to get into this discussion. I just don't think everyone agrees on what "nice" means.

But it's just one quality imo--it's not some love potion. It's the same for women and men. Sometimes it feels like life isn't fair--people take advantage of nice people all the time. It's terrible but that is why you should seek to be nicer (or more assertive), not because it's attractive. But because it's right. Because that's how you'd like to be treated.

But invalidating people's emotions and experiences, and calling them liars because of their gender (and their POV doesn't align with yours) is NOT actually nice.


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## B3LIAL (Dec 21, 2013)

False dichotomy. I am neither a bad boy or a nice guy. Both sorts of males are pathetic in my eyes. Most bad boys are not that confident in themselves unless they're in control and their ego is being validated. If I challenge them, they act often like children. Nice guys are also pathetic, as with all people pleasers. I am neither.

I also find using the term "alpha male" when describing humans is also cringe worthy. We're not gorillas. 

Anyone who refers to themselves as alpha and/or to others as beta is probably insecure and obsessed with social status and comparison to others.

I don't give a shit about how I compare to others, and how "alpha", "beta" or "sigma" I am. I just try to enjoy my life because I don't want to get to the end thinking I wasted so much of my fucking time worrying about my status amongst others. 99.99999% of humans will be forgotten by history, and they shouldn't care, but many who are remembered were not happy.


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## Rathalos (Aug 25, 2021)

Infinitus said:


> I prefer a lover with which I can intertwine souls, as we gaze up in a warm embrace, beneath the starry sky, but if she so much as looks at another man lustfully, I will knock her around and make passes at her friends, until she learns to respect my manhood.
> 
> I think that covers all bases.


Jesus you sound like an incel, why not just leave her cheating ass? there are so many other woman in this world that they out number us 2:1.


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