# Trust



## Eudaimonia (Sep 24, 2013)

The trust I have for people is a trust I'm not strongly attached to. It can come and go without emotion. When it comes to people lying or keeping information, I don't actually find it hurtful nor do I care to call them on it. It is hard to say why this isn't important to me. A lie may be more telling than the truth to my way of thinking. You talk about something and then someone bristles spikes along their back and will then start in with the friendly lies or will lash out brutal honesty. It seems all the same to me. Yes, I'm very forgiving either way.

It might be that I both trust and distrust at the same time and the judgement that I have for that person is the same even if I know I can't continue with that relationship. The judgement whatever it might be on a deep or petty level is interlaced with the knowledge that we are all fallible humans struggling for dignity, identity and acceptance and might hurt others knowingly or unknowingly because of any number of insecurities.

There are going be to those that I will predict will emphatically not believe a word I say in this post because it seems impossible for a person to not be hurt by lies. You might be right... perhaps I'm just not aware of it.

I knew someone who was incredibly honest but also in a tremendous amount of pain. The closer I got to him the more of his pain I would feel because of this honesty which was very much his rock that he couldn't do without and because as I was becoming more emotionally entangled, he didn't have a censor to prevent me from feeling insecure from the things he said to me and about me. He wasn't trying to hurt me and he wasn't even being brutal, but he couldn't lie. I don't think I ever fully trusted him with my emotions because my exposure to his pain made me aware automatically on a primal level that I needed to protect myself, but I knew that he didn't lie to me and that I can recall was the most painful relationship I was ever in.

It rarely happens that either someone told me he was having an affair or that I found out and it didn't effect me in a negative or hurtful way. This only happened twice that I can remember. Usually, at the start of getting to know someone I will ask casual questions... some told me yes upfront they are seeing others and some would say something else and I normally can pick up on how truthful they were being. How they answer lets me know their game and how they want to play it. None of it was devasting even if they lied about it. Keep in mind, that doesn't mean I won't still see them but I do want to see where they want to go with the relationship and what they expect of me. The ones that lie are more apt to become emotional if I am seeing other men, so usually they are dropped merely to avoid drama. The ones that are honest, I'm honest with too and it is usually a lot more mature with a mutual understanding... and of course, trust.

So trust doesn't seem to be a steel lock for me. It is more of a loose grip where I give everyone the benefit of the doubt and then it could still remain even if I find out they were lying to me to some extent and perhap continue as friends with an awareness that this person has a hard time telling the truth.

I have a friend (albeit not a close friend) who is a pathological liar and suffering from fast cycling bipolar mood disorder. I've known her for 10 years and I know I can't trust her even if she said she went to the doctor or had knee surgery even if it sounded very convincing and she is hobbling around, but her lies truly doesn't matter to me. It seems senseless and more hurtful to herself than anyone else.


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## Purrfessor (Jul 30, 2013)

Scruzz said:


> The trust I have for people is a trust I'm not strongly attached to. It can come and go without emotion. When it comes to people lying or keeping information, I don't actually find it hurtful nor do I care to call them on it. It is hard to say why this isn't important to me. A lie may be more telling than the truth to my way of thinking. You talk about something and then someone bristles spikes along their back and will then start in with the friendly lies or will lash out brutal honesty. It seems all the same to me. Yes, I'm very forgiving either way.
> 
> It might be that I both trust and distrust at the same time and the judgement that I have for that person is the same even if I know I can't continue with that relationship. The judgement whatever it might be on a deep or petty level is interlaced with the knowledge that we are all fallible humans struggling for dignity, identity and acceptance and might hurt others knowingly or unknowingly because of any number of insecurities.
> 
> ...


I guess you could say I'm the same way. I give people the benefit of the doubt but am not surprised by any behavior such as cheating or whatever. I may even expect bad behavior or lies. So when it happens I'm not really hurt. I'm ok with it though. People exercise their free will. No problem there.


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## Donovan (Nov 3, 2009)

that i can show a genuine interest, and won't be seen as less for it. 

when it comes to any interaction or relationship that isn't "intimate"--in the sense of romance--i have no problem just letting everything out (most times just to press and feel what the other is about; or, to rile them up if i can tell they're adorably uptight and "proper"). 

it's like: *cue creepy 'fava beans + hannibal' salivary-tongue-smacking sounds* "... i can smell yours--and i'm about to bring it out--then i'll let mine out and they can play together. afterwards, since we will have both seen each other's 'civil' side and the split that comes from _having_ a civil side, neither will be as extreme as each is not barred and can come into contact at will... this = us being completely comfortable with each other... aren't you just as _happy_ as i am, :crazy:?"


being this way--or offhandedly offensive with my opinions--doesn't really bother me much, as i keep an emotional barrier between myself and the world. it may not seem this way at first--especially with all the "weird" flowing out--but by the very fact that someone as insecure as myself can burn potential bridges or alienate myself so readily shows that a certain distance is kept. it's a way of (childishly) putting the other person on the spot, in a "so what's it gonna be?"-way. this is only possible because of the distance/safety-net, which creates the illusion that nothing is lost because there was _nothing absolutely_ necessary to be had to begin with; whatever "it" might have been will be in other areas of life, or can be had in different ways--"it", is not reliant upon this one interaction or opportunity (it can be a strength in many ways, but really it's an incredible weakness). 

when it comes to romance of any sort (upon first meeting/"courting") i'm actually the complete opposite. i don't want to be callous/indifferent towards, or to use veiled aggression/abrasiveness, or to poke-and-prod until a fuller picture of the person is gained--i really just want to give them the benefit of the doubt and to immediately realign this inner-outer opposition into something calmer--something serene and inviting so that they can reveal and act at their own pace. i don't want to manufacture their response, or to contain them with my personality (lol at my disdain for the "power triad"); i want to be sweet to them, to connect on a level where there is actual intimacy. to let someone in, and just "be". 

to "be" though, with another, is almost painful in its bareness and openness. trying to hold all these different parts of a broken circle together--to pull them in towards the middle from where they've receded--feels like they're about to rip _you_ apart with the ever-growing tension in their attempt to reclaim some form of relative safety, no matter how barren and dark their recesses are compared to what is being had. 

to me, trust is knowing that someone actually wants this--for whatever reason--and that they have no problem fighting with you when necessary, or being gentle when called for, in order to coax these fearful parts back out from their stations of "fearful-longing"; and that i'll return the favor so that we can help each other navigate ourselves back to 'wholeness' (the only important package: the person, the journey, and what is had after). 

also... knowing that my willingness to do for you won't be taken advantage of. in most dealings, i'll do what's "fair", or "right", so that i can justify the negation of lowering my own self-worth. but with someone i'm close to, there just doesn't need to be a reason--them needing or wanting something is enough--and i'll do whatever_ i_ need to or have to do in order to bring it about (i may not be doing it correctly or just getting something entirely wrong, so once again--have a voice, fight me if you have to--but just let it be known)... getting burned in that arena is beyond difficult to recover from. 

----------------------------------

i'm going to turn this post into something even longer and more self-involved than it already is: 

maybe trust is a form of submission...? i know that sounds 8-like, but from a 6-ish perspective i believe that it can fit as well. 

submitting myself _to_ myself--allowing myself to just be in my surroundings without feverishly putting up a wall of some sort that is meant to preemptively attack those surroundings--but instead to allow it all and everything to wash over me, would be trust. to let that wave come, to blink and flinch if it's natural, and to realize that it's force and malevolent intent is an illusion. to let it reconnect me _to_ my surroundings, like a spiritual (but non-religious) re-birthing, where everything takes on a different shade; a shade that is inviting, or that allows me to invite it. 

i have some plans on this--some that i've spoken to you about Animal, in the form of seeking advice. others... well, i think i might just put all my bullshit aside, obtain a pair of testicles, and ask this oh-so-cute co-worker out for a cup of coffee--without tirades or shows or misdirection's of actual feeling/intent (practicing authenticity and what-not). 

:happy:


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## Donovan (Nov 3, 2009)

oh, and i can definitely identify with the whole " 'flirt' with everyone you're not interested in, and ignore/become awkward with the one person that intrigues the hell out of you"-thing... lol, fucking shooting myself in the foot with that.


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## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

Donovan said:


> maybe trust is a form of *submission*...? i know that sounds 8-like, but from a 6-ish perspective i believe that it can fit as well.


I prefer to call it surrender. roud:


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## Donovan (Nov 3, 2009)

kaleidoscope said:


> I prefer to call it surrender. roud:


_sweet_ surrender? ... anyone? :laughing:

edit: oh yeah. that's a much better word, a better connotation.


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## Das Brechen (Nov 26, 2011)

Trust to me is a surrender of doubt.

I don't trust anyone even when I should. I go the journey alone and so my fate is my own.


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

Trust is usually a measure of how consistent things tend to be, if not faith that certain results will yield from a certain situation. In terms of interpersonal relationships, it falls in the realm of boundaries. How much I trust a person can be gauged by how much closer I get to them and how much time and effort I'm willing to invest in maintaining ties with them. When it comes to wanting people to share my vulnerabilities and triumphs with, trust is a huge component in determining that. Although people do things that cross boundaries at times, as earth-shattering as the experience may seem, such things are ultimately inevitable. Once you accept the fact that people mess up and shit happens, there's not much to worry about since it's beyond your control. The only thing you can control is yourself. It also never hurt anyone to have a little faith in something. Mistakes, mishaps, and failures are merely learning opportunities. 

But on another note, Pascal's wager is super relevant here, I think.


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## Quernus (Dec 8, 2011)

I don't know!!!! I have been thinking and thinking about this, rofl. 

I don't have trust issues in the sense of being "paranoid" or anything. Like I'm not generally worried about being back-stabbed or "used". I just kind of feel like if someone mistreats me, I'll get around to handling it when it happens. And I have in fact made some unwise choices where my security has in fact been compromised, thanks to me being too "trusting" (But not so much trusting of the other person, so much as overly trusting of my ability to just go with the flow, idk). I am not always the most forward thinking person.

However, I do have a few very specific fears that involve letting people get close to me, and it's hard to "trust" someone in that way. I always expect I'll get hurt but it's not like a constant fear or pressing anxiety, it's more like I've resigned myself to "knowing" I'm not truly lovable and it's just a matter of time until others see that, so I keep a distance or try to manipulate things to ward off the inevitable. But there's nothing anyone could possibly do or say to make me think otherwise - it's not about trusting the other person at all, it's all about my own self-image.  This is really ridiculous. I wish I knew how to fix it. 

SO IN OTHER WORDS.

I SPEND WAY TOO MUCH TIME IN MY OWN WORLD, MY LOCUS OF CONTROL CAN BE ALL OVER THE MAP DEPENDING ON THE SITUATION, BUT THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT I HAVE WAY MORE ISSUES WITH SELF-ESTEEM THAN I HAVE WITH "TRUSTING" OTHER PEOPLE. But sometimes the result is still the same as if I had paranoia issues. lmao. Okay. I am sure that just makes so much sense, everything I just said, right.


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## Saira (Feb 2, 2012)

Animal said:


> I would have said "I don't have trust issues" because I don't walk around worrying that people are lying to me. I'm fine with friends and it rarely crosses my mind that they'll leave me behind or reject me, even though this has happened before. But the minute I have a crush or it turns to 'more than friend' I am suddenly very wary that I might be rejected. Because in a romantic scenario, monogamous at least, you only pick one person. That means if I'm not THE BEST and basically his ideal, he will leave me. Or if someone else is better he will leave me. So, when I'm in that kind of situation and things haven't yet been 'defined' or I'm not convinced he's in love with me, every time he checks his text messages I cringe to the bone. Every little thing is a rejection or a sign that I'll be replaced. But I do get over it once I know he values me and that our built-up bond can't be replaced by someone prettier. For me, trust isn't about learning to believe that he isnt "lying to me." It's about trusting that he wants me, that he has some attachment to me, that I am significant to him. And irreplaceable. I'm capable of this, but it requires tremendous investment from both parties and a lot of time.




This is me. I felt something more than just physical attraction for the first time in my life, and it's painfully hard for me to trust him. It's not that girly paranoia or jealousy or anything stupid like that, just a feeling that I have to be the most beautiful and interesting person in his life or else everything that connects us so beautifully will -puff!- evaporate and leave nothing behind. I've realized I'm acting all indifferent and easy-going, probably because I think it lets me keep the upper hand. xD

In general, I can be very naive and trust lots of things that people say, but trusting what they think about me or how much they give or don't give a shit is impossible. And pretty stupid - I've seen too many people get hurt because of betrayal. I think it's best to be open, but on the guard; give people a chance, but don't give them yourself. Too much doubting can make you confused and anxious - and that's not good for any type of relationship. I've found it works the best for me when I don't expect anything; I just let people be themselves and accept that they might be liars and cowards or that they can change their mind.


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## HellCat (Jan 17, 2013)

Animal said:


> What does trust mean to you?


Friends I trust implicitly, even the crazy ones. What is the worst they can do? I only confide in people of depth and responsibility. Relationships on the other hand, no expectations ever. I take care of myself. 

if marriage taught me anything it is that we are ultimately alone in everything, honesty is a joke and most people are selfish, hateful monsters deep within. To be as pragmatic as possible and always have a good savings.


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## HellCat (Jan 17, 2013)

~
:::::::::::::::::
I would have said "I don't have trust issues" because I don't walk around worrying that people are lying to me. I'm fine with friends and it rarely crosses my mind that they'll leave me behind or reject me, even though this has happened before. But the minute I have a crush or it turns to 'more than friend' I am suddenly very wary that I might be rejected. Because in a romantic scenario, monogamous at least, you only pick one person. That means if I'm not THE BEST and basically his ideal, he will leave me. Or if someone else is better he will leave me. So, when I'm in that kind of situation and things haven't yet been 'defined' or I'm not convinced he's in love with me, every time he checks his text messages I cringe to the bone. Every little thing is a rejection or a sign that I'll be replaced. But I do get over it once I know he values me and that our built-up bond can't be replaced by someone prettier. For me, trust isn't about learning to believe that he isnt "lying to me." It's about trusting that he wants me, that he has some attachment to me, that I am significant to him. And irreplaceable. I'm capable of this, but it requires tremendous investment from both parties and a lot of time.
:::::::::::::::::::::


So to sum it up, trust isn't something I need outside a romantic scenario, and in that instance, trust means that I believe I matter to him. That I can feel free to burn for him openly, and know he will burn for me right back. Or at least, he won't reject me and scoff at me for it. It's also important to know that once he knows he has power over me, that he won't use it against me, and won't attempt to use it to control me. I say "attempt" because nobody has done this successfully. At the first attempt to control me, you get a serious warning. At the second attempt, Animal is _gone_.

What is most important to me is knowing that I can trust myself.~ Your response 



You are beautiful, talented, pure spirited and fascinating, have more faith in it! Also I agree with the controlling and power games. They are pathetic. 

Also, with the trusting yourself. Very wise.


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## Satan Claus (Aug 6, 2013)

Trust to me means I can look at someone and go "I feel like I can talk to that person about anything. They are honest, fair, rational, smart, kind and assertive."


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