# Is 7w8 really a head type?



## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

as a 7w6, I already have a hard enough time seeing myself as a head type, but 7w8s virtually never seem to exhibit anxiety and lack the fast paced, cerebral energy of their head center brethren. at it's core, 7w8 is a fearless, impulsive type which acts first, thinks second and exhibits a clear bodily presence. if you ask me, they're much more at home in the gut center than the head center.


----------



## DoubleDare (May 15, 2013)

Respectfully disagree with the assessment of 7w8. My interpretation is that Sevens start with the "monkey mind", as it's often been described, but their proximity to the gut center enables them to very quickly move from thinking into doing. It may look like they act first, think second, but really, the thinking center is what is driving the action. They experience a certain existential fear and anxiety that demands that they take action *right now* to keep themselves moving forward and away from what they fear. This is as opposed to a Seven with a strong Six wing, who might have big ideas, but would then use the skeptical nature of the Six to undercut those big ideas, which would then keep them from moving forward with their big ideas and bog them down in more "analysis paralysis." This tension between big plans for the future and "analysis paralysis" is what give 7w6s a more visible anxiety than what is seen in 7w8s. They both have the same anxiety, but 7w8 "disappears" that anxiety quickly through taking action.

By contrast, and for example, an 8w7 would feel what's "right" in their gut, and would then use their ability to produce big ideas to bolster their impulse to fix things. That's why 8w7s have more visible ambition than 8w9s - "I need to make things right, and I have just the idea to get it done!" as opposed to "I am already in the process of making things right over here, don't bother me…"

Not the truth, just my take on it.


----------



## Figure (Jun 22, 2011)

Yeah @_DoubleDare_ is right, 7w8 are no more, no less Head type as 5, 6, and 7w6. It's the same core type, and the core type is what matters. It's a different approach to doing the same thing. 

I am close to a couple 7w6, and the difference between us is not in thinking more or less. The difference is that they are at the same time more likely to not engage in something if they think it may not work well, and also more likely to flee from a situation just because they thought of a reason to. They are sometimes outwardly nervous - I *do* experience fear, but say "fuck it" as a way of escaping it. They think I'm an asshole, I think they're pussies. They make mistakes, I make enemies. They are liked, I am heard. When they crash, they end up frantic and hyper - when I crash, I make an absolute idiot of myself. 

But ultimately, we're all very active-minded and use ration to justify what we decide to do. And ultimately, it does not make a huge difference most of the time, because most things in day to day life do not bring out the differences. The 8 wing basically adds a more firm, indifferent approach to getting satisfaction.


----------



## meridannight (Nov 23, 2012)

it seems the same way to me as to @Figure etc.

7w8s appear more bodily-based because of their close connection to type 8. analogously 8w7s will appear more heady (than 8w9s for example) due their close connection to type 7. but when you get down to it, that's a critical difference between the two. 8s are primarily physical body-based beings, while 7s base more out of a mental reserve. 8s aren't as connected to their mind as 7s are. type 7 is much more quick-thinking on the go, while an 8 would first process the physical reality of their body, and arrive at thinking about things after that. also 7s should be much more clear-headed than 8s.


----------



## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

DoubleDare said:


> Respectfully disagree with the assessment of 7w8. My interpretation is that Sevens start with the "monkey mind", as it's often been described, but their proximity to the gut center enables them to very quickly move from thinking into doing. It may look like they act first, think second, but really, the thinking center is what is driving the action. They experience a certain existential fear and anxiety that demands that they take action *right now* to keep themselves moving forward and away from what they fear. This is as opposed to a Seven with a strong Six wing, who might have big ideas, but would then use the skeptical nature of the Six to undercut those big ideas, which would then keep them from moving forward with their big ideas and bog them down in more "analysis paralysis." This tension between big plans for the future and "analysis paralysis" is what give 7w6s a more visible anxiety than what is seen in 7w8s. They both have the same anxiety, but 7w8 "disappears" that anxiety quickly through taking action.


in other words, the home base both 7w6 and 7w8 is the mind, but the 7w8 visits the body more frequently than his 7w6 neighbor. 

speaking as a 7w6 with more balanced wings, I can access my gut when I need to, but one of two things needs to happen first
1) you piss me off
2) my desires become more specific. I feel like, while 7w6 exhibits more cerebral activity, the cerebral activity of 7w8 is more organized and focused on a select few _tangible_ desires. the mind of a 7w6 is much akin to a frog jumping from lily pad to lily pad, hopping about without much of a destination and, hence, not really getting anywhere. a lot of my work in self development has been aimed at narrowing in on the most important and _immediate_ priorities and focusing on attaining them as fast as possible. 



> By contrast, and for example, an 8w7 would feel what's "right" in their gut, and would then use their ability to produce big ideas to bolster their impulse to fix things._ That's why 8w7s have more visible ambition than 8w9s_ - "I need to make things right, and I have just the idea to get it done!" as opposed to "I am already in the process of making things right over here, don't bother me…"
> Not the truth, just my take on it.


not just visibly. the 8w7 _is_ more ambitious than the 8w9. the 7 wing brings with it more external focus, self indulgence, energy and an awareness of what one wants vs what one has. 8w9s are more earthy, more repressed, less materialistic and, as long as they and their loved ones are safe and left alone, more satisfied with what they have.


----------



## meridannight (Nov 23, 2012)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> speaking as a 7w6 with more balanced wings, I can access my gut when I need to, but one of two things needs to happen first
> 1) you piss me off
> 2) my desires become more specific. I feel like, while 7w6 exhibits more cerebral activity, the cerebral activity of 7w8 is more organized and focused on a select few _tangible_ desires. the mind of a 7w6 is much akin to a frog jumping from lily pad to lily pad, hopping about without much of a destination and, hence, not really getting anywhere. a lot of my work in self development has been aimed at narrowing in on the most important and _immediate_ priorities and focusing on attaining them as fast as possible.


interesting. what exactly do you mean by ''accessing'' your gut? what is it that it makes you do, when you ''access'' it, as you say?

i agree that i am a gut center first, but even so i am still always connected to my mind and emotions. i'm just not as aware of them, or as ''clear'' on what's happening with them as i am with the gut; and i don't prioritize them, while the gut clearly overrides the latter two if in conflict. i always do whatever it is i feel i have to do or want to do at any given moment. this understanding of doing what i ''have to do'' originates instinctually. sometimes it doesn't make a lot of sense to act that way. i have enough of a connection to my head to figure it out before acting on my impulses whether it makes sense or doesn't, and how much it doesn't. but even if i figure it out that i'm acting against what makes most sense, i don't follow the mind. instead i get this intense physical urge to act in a certain way, and that's how i always end up acting, even if i know it doesn't make sense at the time. this is how the gut clearly overrides the head. it's like it possesses the highest information processing center in the brain and its priorities override everything else. or that its pathways are the ones most easily excited, most often used, and thus have the clearest recognizable patterns to them. my body gets this drive to do something and that's what it does and nothing else matters. 

i've been in this conflict many times in my life and i've never gone with the head, or with what makes more sense. when it's the physical drive vs. logic the physical drive is much more prominent. it's intense, has a direction/destination, and is an actual physical sensation felt in the body. the logic is more like, ''yeah i know it makes more sense to do that instead, but whatever''. it lacks content compared to the physical urge. it's just pieces of information, it doesn't feel like anything in the body. whereas the physical urge has a clear self-satisfactory component. i don't always get full self-satisfaction out of acting on it, but even acting on it alone is partially self-satisfactory. whereas acting on information alone doesn't feel like anything at all. no self-satisfaction. it's just some neutral ground that i don't feel at all. i think this is what compels me to choose one over the other so readily and in such a consistent manner.


PS. a good distinction between 8w7 and 8w9 by the way.


----------



## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

Head, no, I would say more pelvis -- Not gut, but lower..
We need to split these up more. So now theres head, heart, gut, and pelvis.
I think that pelvis types should start at 6w7(Head ends at 6w5..), - pelvis extends to aaalll the way to 8w7, then gut is 8w9, 9, 1..


----------



## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

I mean..obviously 7w8 is a head type. A 7w8 is still a 7 (a fear type) at the core and deals with the same central neuroses as the other wing. There's just a stronger connection with the gut triad. 7w6s because of the double head/anxiety+attachment (6) influence are more consultative, more conflict averse, less comfortable with uncertainty (more risk averse), more affirmation seeking. 7w8s are more open to conflict, risk-taking, overestimate themselves more, can be more competitive and practical than the other wing. This is from the 8 influence of course. But naah, the head centre is very much the 7w8's "home" base.


----------



## Tater Tot (May 28, 2012)

I remember reading something somewhere some time ago (charmingly specific :3) where somebody moved up the centers by one type, and the Heart Center was 1, 2, and 3, the Head Center was 4, 5, and 6, and the Gut Center was 7, 8 and 9. It certainly is a lot less random to normally start type descriptions with 1 rather than 2, but I couldn't really buy 4 as a head type. I see how 1 could make sense as an Image type, though.


----------



## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

meridannight said:


> interesting. what exactly do you mean by ''accessing'' your gut? what is it that it makes you do, when you ''access'' it, as you say?


well, normally, I'm thinking "I want this. I'm going to do that". when I access my gut, it's more "I'm getting this NOW!" "move bitch! get out da way!" when I'm feeling more in touch with my 8 side, it feels kinda like being on a motorcycle 




> PS. a good distinction between 8w7 and 8w9 by the way.


8w9s typically strike me as lazier. "the bear" is a good title for them because, when I talk to them, it feels like I just disturbed their hibernation :tongue:


----------



## d e c a d e n t (Apr 21, 2013)

Tater Tot said:


> but I couldn't really buy 4 as a head type. I see how 1 could make sense as an Image type, though.


Well, reading... I think it was Ichazo's 4 description, I can see why some people would put 4 as a head type, though I still think it works best as an image-type. 

And yeah, I would think 7w8 is still a head-type. With a lot of Id. =P


----------



## Coburn (Sep 3, 2010)

7w8s are absolutely head types. You just have to know how to look beyond the 8-ish flavored demeanor they casually approach the world with.

I work with a 7w8; it's amazing to see the juxtaposition of sheer will and sheer anxiety.


----------



## DoubleDare (May 15, 2013)

Nonsense said:


> Well, reading... I think it was Ichazo's 4 description, I can see why some people would put 4 as a head type, though I still think it works best as an image-type.


Agreed - my read on Ichazo is that he identified Fours as perhaps the *most* heady personality type in the Enneagram. And I can see how access to the introspective thinking process of Fives driven by the force of intense feelings in Fours could result in a lot of what we generally term "headiness." Lots of thinking without a lot of resolution...


----------



## Figure (Jun 22, 2011)

Marlowe said:


> I work with a 7w8; it's amazing to see the juxtaposition of sheer will and sheer anxiety.


Ha this made me laugh. It's probably very true, though we wouldn't likely want anyone to know it. 

One of the things that made it hard to type correctly at least for me was seeing "fear" as not necessarily involving a direct subject. It isn't conventional "fear," as in, fear of an upcoming event or fear of spiders. It's fear as in having little to draw from other than what you think or imagine about something, and knowing those ideas are not necessarily real. All of the head types, I'd imagine, have some sense of this. 

If we're really going to make this thread worth something, I'll be honest and say there are tons of times I'm certainly afraid of a situation. It's just that there's something that steps in and says "oh well, do it" or "that isn't important now." There's a vacant uncertainty up top that cannot sit as is, which is how the gluttony appears as adventurousness. Go grab it. This is another difference with the 7w6 - they may troubleshoot, I have to simply get rid of the uncertainty, and live with what happens next even if it's not good (or conversely enjoy the fuck out of it if it IS good). 

I think this is where the gutsy/impulsive look comes from. 7w8 would rather own their own action than think too much about what to do. It isn't 6, but it is sort of counter-phobic in a way. This does happen pretty quickly, so I can see how it wouldn't look "Head"-like. But it definitely is.


----------



## DoubleDare (May 15, 2013)

@Figure - Perfect. Awesome. Thank you. 

I especially appreciate the acknowledgement of the counter-phobic aspect of Sevens. I think people always forget that about Sevens.


----------



## Quernus (Dec 8, 2011)

7w8 certainly acts more impulsively, it seems, but they're still head types and are still always planning things in their own way. But rather than being preoccupied with seeing their plans pan out perfectly, they're more concerned with making sure to have options lined up. If Seven fears being trapped in pain and deprivation, and Eight is concerned with being in control of their own life and destiny, then 7 with an 8 wing results in someone quick on their feet, active, aggressive, and very much concerned with things going their way. 

Honestly I can only think of one definite 7w8 that I know in person and while he throws himself at the world, getting to know him reveals that he's not AS impulsive as it seems on the surface; when you talk to him, he is aaaalways thinking ahead and looking at options and trying to stay preoccupied, if he doesn't have some sort of stimulation he nearly panics. Seems very much a head-type to me, though an overwhelming personality type in general.


----------



## rajAs (Sep 14, 2012)

Figure said:


> I think this is where the gutsy/impulsive look comes from. 7w8 would rather own their own action than think too much about what to do. It isn't 6, but it is sort of counter-phobic in a way. This does happen pretty quickly, so I can see how it wouldn't look "Head"-like. But it definitely is.


That's what I was about to say. I've often seen "phobic"-like 7s and counterphobic-like 7s. Maybe that's up to the wing.

Thanks for your inputs!


----------



## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

rajAs said:


> That's what I was about to say. I've often seen "phobic"-like 7s and counterphobic-like 7s. Maybe that's up to the wing.
> Thanks for your inputs!


I haven't known many "phobic" 7s (whether 7w6 or 7w8). I think we're more counter phobic in general


----------



## rajAs (Sep 14, 2012)

Most of the 7s I know are counterphobic when they talk, but absolutely phobic when it's time to act!


----------



## Lotan (Aug 10, 2012)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> I haven't known many "phobic" 7s (whether 7w6 or 7w8). I think we're more counter phobic in general


Agree...not really in the same way as 6 from my experience, but more in a "Woah this person is trying to restrict me, hell naw!"


----------

