# Types and Power Seeking



## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

imo, it looks something like this:
*most power seeking:* 3, 8w7, Sp 7, So 2w3
*power seeking:* 1, So 2w1, Sx and Sp 2w3, 5w6, cp6, Sx and So 7, 8w9
*less power seeking:* Sp and Sx 2w1, 4w3
*least power seeking:* 4w5, 5w4, p6, 9

PS: for clarification, by _power_, I mean
- money
- control
- physical power
- social influence
- resources


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## Paradigm (Feb 16, 2010)

Yeah, I have very little desire for power. But I don't equate power with autonomy or security, which I would guess many people do. 

Of the list, I would put type 2 up higher. They're not as obvious about it as, say, an 8, but they seek power over most interpersonal situations.


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## Father of Dragons (May 7, 2012)

Paradigm said:


> Yeah, I have very little desire for power. But I don't equate power with autonomy or security, which I would guess many people do.
> 
> Of the list, I would put type 2 up higher. They're not as obvious about it as, say, an 8, but they seek power over most interpersonal situations.


Yeah I would agree with that, it's not like a domineering type of power, it seems to me more a desire for benevolent influence. The key to me seems to be a desire to be recognized as _the most benevolent_. I don't know, I've noticed that with my mom. Shes taken it upon herself to organize all our extended family get togethers. It seems like a yearning for a kind of matriarch type of role.

I've also decided that my boss at my one job is probably a 2w3. At first I couldn't figure him out... I though he was a phobic 6 because he seems to get worried all the time. It kind of weirded me out. But I've realized now that more than anything he is worried about being in control of everything and, especially, _everyone_. Now that I know what he's about he seems like kind of a badass.

P.S. Also, I would agree that not many nines seem to seek power specifically. Personally I just want to be powerful, successful enough to be left alone and to be able to pursue my passions. If that means starting a business eventually and being a boss, so be it. It wouldn't be about being in a position of power for me. I'm more concerned about being in control of my life than anyone else, really.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Father of Dragons said:


> Yeah I would agree with that, it's not like a domineering type of power, *it seems to me more a desire for benevolent influence.* The key to me seems to be a desire to be recognized as _the most benevolent_. I don't know, I've noticed that with my mom. Shes taken it upon herself to organize all our extended family get togethers. It seems like a yearning for a kind of matriarch type of role.


eh, not always. it's true of most 2w1s, but many 2w3s are a little more....well











> I've also decided that my boss at my one job is probably a 2w3. At first I couldn't figure him out... I though he was a phobic 6 because he seems to get worried all the time. It kind of weirded me out. But I've realized now that more than anything he is worried about being in control of everything and, especially, _everyone_. Now that I know what he's about he seems like kind of a badass.


doesn't sound bad ass to me



> P.S. Also, I would agree that not many nines seem to seek power specifically. Personally I just want to be powerful, successful enough to be left alone and to be able to pursue my passions. If that means starting a business eventually and being a boss, so be it. It wouldn't be about being in a position of power for me. I'm more concerned about being in control of my life than anyone else, really.


being in control of your life in this day and age requires quite a bit of power. if you're like me and are a hedonistic bastard, it requires even more


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Paradigm said:


> Yeah, I have very little desire for power. But I don't equate power with autonomy or security, which I would guess many people do.
> Of the list, I would put type 2 up higher. They're not as obvious about it as, say, an 8, but they seek power over most interpersonal situations.


Social 2s: yes
Sexual 2s: yes, but less so
Self Preservation 2s: eh, not really. their power seeking is more domestic and small scope most of the time


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## Father of Dragons (May 7, 2012)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> eh, not always. it's true of most 2w1s, but many 2w3s are a little more....well
> 
> 
> doesn't sound bad ass to me





I guess it doesn't how I explained it. It's more that he is really good at getting people to do what he wants without them knowing it. Basically, he is better at manipulating people than most anyone I have ever seen. 

I've had 8 and cp6 bosses who liked to 'bark' to try to get people to do what they want. Getting all up in your face when you do something wrong, trying to be intimidating and trying to make a strict "chain of command", just to get people to obey them. But, none of them have let a huge impression on me. I tend to lose respect for people who try to demand respect and obedience... I am just skeptical and I don't respect people because they expect me to. 

But, where other bosses would ream you out in front of others, the 2 I'm referring to is more apt to quietly pull you aside and calmly, assertively explain what was done wrong. And, it seems to work for the most part. I don't know, it's hard to explain. He gets shit done without ever having to make a scene. He makes it seem effortless. 



Swordsman of Mana said:


> being in control of your life in this day and age requires quite a bit of power. if you're like me and are a hedonistic bastard, it requires even more


I wouldn't entirely agree with that. From what I've seen it more requires the skill set to take care of yourself, and the courage to build something of your own. I live in a blue collar city where there are a gazillion wealthy small business owners. I wouldn't consider most of them to be extraordinarily 'powerful'. It's more that they've found their niche, they stay on their toes, and they know what they're doing.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

@Father of Dragons


> I guess it doesn't how I explained it. It's more that he is really good at getting people to do what he wants without them knowing it. Basically, he is better at manipulating people than most anyone I have ever seen.
> 
> I've had 8 and cp6 bosses who liked to 'bark' to try to get people to do what they want. Getting all up in your face when you do something wrong, trying to be intimidating and trying to make a strict "chain of command", just to get people to obey them. But, none of them have let a huge impression on me. I tend to lose respect for people who try to demand respect and obedience... I am just skeptical and I don't respect people because they expect me to.
> 
> But, where other bosses would ream you out in front of others, the 2 I'm referring to is more apt to quietly pull you aside and calmly, assertively explain what was done wrong. And, it seems to work for the most part. I don't know, it's hard to explain. He gets shit done without ever having to make a scene. He makes it seem effortless.


that's not manipulation, it's mature communication. I'm not sure "badass" is the word I would use to describe it, but it's certainly admirable


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## Taika (Jan 15, 2014)

I disagree about 1s not belonging to the most power-seeking group. It is a type that wants to correct, influence, master when a justified reason is noticed. Knowing something is being done wrong creates a strong need to seek opportunities to fix it ie to have more power than others.


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## Paradigm (Feb 16, 2010)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> Social 2s: yes
> Sexual 2s: yes, but less so
> Self Preservation 2s: eh, not really. their power seeking is more domestic and small scope most of the time


I don't agree, I think SX 2s of both wings are highly power-seeking, possibly even more than SOC 2s. There's a reason they join 5 and 8 in the power-seeking triad :tongue: But I'm going to guess that it's more because they don't fit your definition of "power" here, so that's somewhat fair.

Do agree that SP 2s are probably less oriented for it, but it's still part of their makeup.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Paradigm said:


> *I don't agree, I think SX 2s of both wings are highly power-seeking, possibly even more than SOC 2s. *There's a reason they join 5 and 8 in the power-seeking triad :tongue: But I'm going to guess that it's more because they don't fit your definition of "power" here, so that's somewhat fair.
> Do agree that SP 2s are probably less oriented for it, but it's still part of their makeup.


not if you take into account the _scope_ of their power seeking. they don't seek much in the way of _tangible_ power, so I put them lower on the list


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## unoriginal (Dec 22, 2013)

Adolf Hitler was an INFJ. Leadership skills? YOU BET!!


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## Father of Dragons (May 7, 2012)

Re-reading it, I noticed that you put sp 7 in the highest category. I've never met an sp 7, so I am curious, what is the reasoning behind this? What might cause them to seek power and, specifically, why moreso than sx or so 7?


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Father of Dragons said:


> Re-reading it, I noticed that you put sp 7 in the highest category. I've never met an sp 7, so I am curious, what is the reasoning behind this? What might cause them to seek power and, specifically, why moreso than sx or so 7?


as described by Riso and Hudson


> Getting Mine. In the average range, Self-Preservation Sevens are determined, energetic people, driven to make sure that their basic needs and comforts will always be met. Their attitudes and concerns tend to emphasize the practical and the material. (In the immortal words of Scarlett O'Hara, "As God is my witness, I will never go hungry again!") They tend to be ambitious and work hard to insure that options will remain open to them.
> 
> Self-Preservation Sevens are also classic consumers. They enjoy shopping, traveling, and pampering themselves, making it their business to gather information about the potential sources of enjoyment (catalogues, movie listings, travel and restaurant guides). These Sevens are especially on the lookout for sales and bargains, and like discussing these matters with friends. ("I just found the most darling mugs at the Pottery Barn.") While they enjoy socializing, Self-Preservation Sevens fear developing dependencies on others and avoid having others depend on them.
> 
> ...


think Scarlett O'Hara (Gone with the Wind), Mai Valentine (Yugioh) or Steve Jobs (or, on the forum, @Cosmic Orgasm or @Lotan)

Self Preservation 7s are the most ruthless, ambitious and hedonistic of the 7s. in contrast, Social 7s are "counter-gulttony" (even self-sacrificing) and Sexual 7s are more whimsical, fantastical and frustrated)


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## Father of Dragons (May 7, 2012)

That's interesting, the unhealthy as described there seems very similar to the caricature counter-culturalists often paint in describing everything that is wrong with American society. I'm not saying it is, as generalizing about a culture is pretty stupid. I can see though how material wealth would be of incredible importance to such folks though.


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## Coburn (Sep 3, 2010)

unoriginal said:


> Adolf Hitler was an INFJ. Leadership skills? YOU BET!!


If I remember history, the man had terrible leadership skills. It's why he ultimately lost the war...


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## Coburn (Sep 3, 2010)

I definitely seek the power to affect change and outcomes as I so desire. So this three is in the right category.


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## Lotan (Aug 10, 2012)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> Self Preservation 7s are the most ruthless, ambitious and hedonistic of the 7s. in contrast, Social 7s are "counter-gulttony" (even self-sacrificing) and Sexual 7s are more whimsical, fantastical and frustrated)


Yep, exactly. We sp 7s don't want to be scrounging for money just to meet our basic needs and also prefer to be our own bosses when possible so power = good. Sp 7s are more likely to take a less-exciting job that pays well and be able to enjoy themselves more outside of work, most so or sx 7s I've met would rather have a fun job even if it pays less.

It's also a lot more material-goods/reward focused and less image/status than the power seeking of 8s and 3s; I think sp 7s would be the most likely of all types to take a job that has high reward but comes with a negative public image (ex: the jobs that Nick Naylor in Thank You For Smoking and George Clooney's character in Up in the Air had). I know I would, haha.


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## Figure (Jun 22, 2011)

This thread looks to me like a roundabout way of categorizing which types are most badass, not which types are "power-seeking." 

I think it's easy to overestimate how "aggressive" or "powerful" enneatypes are on the whole - in part, because it can be triangulated in a zillion ways. Gut types are aggressive in their relationship with their environment, pushing against it, holding it together, or changing it. Id types are assertive in satisfying whatever their animalistic desires dictate. The attachment triad can be incredibly power-hungry, as can some of the Head types. And, the exceptions - I know an 8w9 who is afraid of swimming in the ocean because he can't see the bottom. 

At the end of the day, fixation doesn't give us some cosmic connection to who ultimately has the capability of becoming socially powerful, rich, and influential, and for anyone who thinks it does, please cleanse yourself of your inner pile of shit. "Power" means something different to each of the types.


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## Animal (May 29, 2012)

I need to be in control. What control means to me, is control over myself and anything that affects me directly. I also need complete control of my creative projects and living space/ creative space.

Money and resources: I need it because it affects me directly. It has a tangible impact on my lifestyle, my medications, my options for self-expression, my free time and so forth. It costs a lot of money for instance, to make a music record, and in order to get the vision in my head on to a record I need some kind of budget, so it would be nice if I didn't have to seek out ths budget - so I don't have a record company telling me how to record my own songs. But I have turned down various offers to make money or tour with known bands in favor of expressing myself honestly and doing my own work. If I need to get rich I'd go the business route, have a separate business life to fund my projects, rather than cense my sacred musical/artistic life with crap I don't care about.

Social influence: I don't think too much about social influence although I enjoy stirring things up on my political page and I feel great when people are truly touched by my creative work. I also use facebook a lot because I have all my artistic/ musical stuff connected to facebook and it's a way to get my music out. So I guess that is some type of social influence, but I think of it more as 'communicating' or 'showing the world who I am and what I've got' or just getting fans for the sake of making money or getting noticed so I have a chance of recording again. In other words, social influence, much like money and resources, is more pragmatic, less of a 'innate desire.'

Physical power: this is extremely important to me because I'm a chronic illness sufferer, but I am not sure I thought about it much before... though I was always into climbing, running, stamina. If you're a musician you have to be strong to carry lots of equipment all the time while wearing a sexy outfit.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Figure said:


> This thread looks to me like a roundabout way of categorizing which types are most badass, not which types are "power-seeking."


not quite. for example, 8w9 is typically much more badass than Social 2w3
of course, there is going to be a correlation, as power is one of the chief components of being a badass.



> I think it's easy to overestimate how "aggressive" or "powerful" enneatypes are on the whole - in part, because it can be triangulated in a zillion ways. Gut types are aggressive in their relationship with their environment, pushing against it, holding it together, or changing it.


9s are not aggressive. they're more like the anti-gut, anti-aggression type on the enneagram



> Id types are assertive in satisfying whatever their animalistic desires dictate. The attachment triad can be incredibly power-hungry, as can some of the Head types.


of course. any type _can_ be. this does not equate all types being _equally likely_ to.



> And, the exceptions - I know an 8w9 who is afraid of swimming in the ocean because he can't see the bottom.


I can't speak for this individual, but phobias do not exclude you from being powerful



> At the end of the day, fixation doesn't give us some cosmic connection to who ultimately has the capability of becoming socially powerful, rich, and influential, and for anyone who thinks it does, please cleanse yourself of your inner pile of shit.


it doesn't give as a "cosmic connection" but it can give us a _predisposition_. any type can learn to be assertive, make lots of money or acquire prominent social influence (there are plenty of celebrity examples from all 9 types). this means neither that 
- they will have an equally easy time doing so
nor that
- they will have equal desire to



> "Power" means something different to each of the types.


no. power has a generally agreed upon definition. obviously there are slight differences in interpretations and different priorities as to which varieties of power, but comments like this are simply an excuse to avoid discussing a topic by exaggerating its subjectiveness 
and therefore dismissing it


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## Figure (Jun 22, 2011)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> not quite. for example, 8w9 is typically much more badass than Social 2w3


What is it that you admire about them more than 2w3? 



> 9s are not aggressive. they're more like the anti-gut, anti-aggression type on the enneagram


They wouldn't be the first type to run out and take over Goldman Sachs as an i-banker, but there are some who certainly do want control of their surroundings. 9's are not usually overtly aggressive, but they certainly can be _passive_-aggressive, and therefore aggressive nonetheless. 



> no. power has a generally agreed upon definition. obviously there are slight differences in interpretations and different priorities as to which varieties of power, but comments like this are simply an excuse to avoid discussing a topic by exaggerating its subjectiveness
> and therefore dismissing it


I see this thread as selectively inflating types' "power." What do you see it as doing?


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> no. power has a generally agreed upon definition. obviously there are slight differences in interpretations and different priorities as to which varieties of power, but comments like this are simply an excuse to avoid discussing a topic by exaggerating its subjectiveness
> and therefore dismissing it


Power _does_ have a generally agreed upon definition, when you google it it looks like this:

_



noun

Click to expand...

_


> noun: *power*; plural noun: *powers*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Note that this does not itself state that people actually _have_ the influence or the material wealth or whatever it is you appear to be seeing as power. That stuff qualifies as the exercise itself or the aftermath of exercising power, so you are defining power retroactively through some common representations of it in the world around you, which is an unclear way to go about it.

And very clearly, if you look at the top definition, 5s are power seeking types. :kitteh:


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Figure said:


> What is it that you admire about them more than 2w3?


1) you're putting words in my mouth
2) that's not relevant (even though I do admire 8s more than 2s)
that said, 8w9s are more badass because they are less concerned with the opinions of others and have less reluctance to get their hands dirty. they also call it a _bad_ass because it implies doing something that you are not supposed to do, and 8s are typically more irreverent of social conventions and rules than 2s are.

however, Social 2w3s are more power seeking because they are more interested in latter climbing, attaining social influence over a wider net of people and acquiring resources for the sake of social admiration. 



> They wouldn't be the first type to run out and take over Goldman Sachs as an i-banker, but there are some who certainly do want control of their surroundings.


but an 8w7 or 3w2 _would_ likely want to take over Goldman Sachs, which is a much more bold, large-scale power grab than simply wanting to control your surroundings.



> 9's are not usually overtly aggressive, but they certainly can be _passive_-aggressive, and therefore aggressive nonetheless.


aggression is correlated with power, but they're not the same thing. 9s (even 9w8s) are less oriented to control of large amounts of resources and people, therefore they less power seeking. 



> I see this thread as selectively inflating types' "power." What do you see it as doing?


then you are seeing a hidden intention where there is none. the purpose of this thread is as simple as the one stated in the OP. there's nothing else to it (other than the fact that I'm a bored Ne dom 7 who likes to make threads lol).

overall
- you seem to be implying all attempts to gain power are of equal scale (this probably has to do with you being 6 fixed and INTJ. 6 fixers tend to scan for hidden intentions and INTJs don't usually create something/start a discussion unless there is a clear objective. being Ne dom and 7, I am much more lackadaisical and feel no further justification to make a thread than throwing out a random idea that came to me) 
- you are overcomplicating things (including intentions)


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Control is such a vague term on its own, because control over _what_? By definition, the power-seeker triad is the most concerned about seeking some form of control over the environment, hence it's called the power-seeking triad. Sometimes what is the most powerful is not power that is seen but someone who knows exactly when, where and how to exert their power in such a way that no one could figure out they are in possession of power. I tend to think that overt and visible displays to assert power to be the most futile and pointless, because it clearly suggests the opposite - you have zero power at all but you'd like to think that you want it. Power is not something that is something meant for display, but when the environment submits to you.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

ephemereality said:


> Control is such a vague term on its own, because control over _what_? By definition, the power-seeker triad is the most concerned about seeking some form of control over the environment, hence it's called the power-seeking triad. *Sometimes what is the most powerful is not power that is seen but someone who knows exactly when, where and how to exert their power in such a way that no one could figure out they are in possession of power.* I tend to think that overt and visible displays to assert power to be the most futile and pointless, because it clearly suggests the opposite - you have zero power at all but you'd like to think that you want it. Power is not something that is something meant for display, but when the environment submits to you.


agreed. 3s and 8 fixed 5w6s are powerful for this reason


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> agreed. 3s and 8 fixed 5w6s are powerful for this reason


Why differentiate between 5w4 and 5w6 when the wing would only play a subtle role?


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

ephemereality said:


> Why differentiate between 5w4 and 5w6 when the wing would only play a subtle role?


in general, 5w6s are more focused on tangible systems; 5w4s are more fantastical and less reality focused. this is why Mark Zuckerberg started facebook and Tim Burton directs movies (though this isn't the best example, because Tim Burton could, on many accounts, be considered pretty powerful)


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## d e c a d e n t (Apr 21, 2013)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> this is why Mark Zuckerberg started facebook and Tim Burton directs movies (though this isn't the best example, because Tim Burton could, on many accounts, be considered pretty powerful)


Is Tim Burton even a 5? Though admittedly I haven't payed much attention to the guy outside of his movies.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> in general, 5w6s are more focused on tangible systems; 5w4s are more fantastical and less reality focused. this is why Mark Zuckerberg started facebook and Tim Burton directs movies (though this isn't the best example, because Tim Burton could, on many accounts, be considered pretty powerful)


I am fairly sure Burton is a 4, and one could equally argue that Zuckerberg could be a 6 on the phobic side. I don't think the reason why they ended up with their professions that they did has much to do with their core motivations per se though, as cognitive type could play just as much a role. Burton strikes me as a feeler for example, and Zuckerberg is definitely a thinker. I don't think a 5w6 must be focused on tangible systems since systems are only tangential to their understanding, which applies to all 5s. The 5w6 is just more informed by the 6 fear of instability than a 5w4.


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## HighClassSavage (Nov 29, 2012)

ephemereality said:


> Control is such a vague term on its own, because control over _what_? By definition, the power-seeker triad is the most concerned about seeking some form of control over the environment, hence it's called the power-seeking triad. Sometimes what is the most powerful is not power that is seen but someone who knows exactly when, where and how to exert their power in such a way that no one could figure out they are in possession of power. I tend to think that overt and visible displays to assert power to be the most futile and pointless, because it clearly suggests the opposite - you have zero power at all but you'd like to think that you want it. Power is not something that is something meant for display, but when the environment submits to you.


You're correct in saying overt displays of power suggests a lack of power in actuality; but that does not mean they are futile and pointless. When it comes to power, there exists both actual and _perceived _power. Regardless of whether someone is in possession of power or not (or how much), so long as people _think_ you have it, you "do" have it. Sure, perhaps the more perceptive and less ignorant can recognize how much power someone actually holds, but to the rest, it's much harder to deny someone's "power" when it is being "thrown in your face".

However, I do agree with:



ephemereality said:


> Sometimes what is the most powerful is not power that is seen but someone who knows exactly when, where and how to exert their power in such a way that no one could figure out they are in possession of power.


For example, compare and contrast Joffrey/Cersei with Littlefinger. Joffrey/Cersei certainly have power but are perceived to have much more than they actually do. Littlefinger, on the other hand, is a man who the majority of Westeros perceives to have little power (rather that they are unaware of how much he has), yet arguably possesses more than anyone else. It is for that reason that Littlefinger is far deadlier than Joffrey/Cersei can ever hope to be.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

CasuallyBelligerent said:


> You're correct in saying overt displays of power suggests a lack of power in actuality; but that does not mean they are futile and pointless. When it comes to power, there exists both actual and _perceived _power. Regardless of whether someone is in possession of power or not (or how much), so long as people _think_ you have it, you "do" have it. Sure, perhaps the more perceptive and less ignorant can recognize how much power someone actually holds, but to the rest, it's much harder to deny someone's "power" when it is being "thrown in your face".
> 
> However, I do agree with:
> 
> ...


The answer here seems to be that you speak of a different idea of power when you criticize my previous post. I am not so much interested in appearances or people given power as a social rule. That's a different kind of power unrelated to the power I speak of here.


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## Vaka (Feb 26, 2010)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> imo, it looks something like this:
> *most power seeking:* 3, 8w7, Sp 7, So 2w3
> *power seeking:* 1, So 2w1, Sx and Sp 2w3, 5w6, cp6, Sx and So 7, 8w9
> *less power seeking:* Sp and Sx 2w1, 4w3
> ...


If this is relevant at all, as you define it, I feel as if I have very little drive for gaining power, especially when it comes to money, control, and social influence. When it comes to control, I'm just very self focused and I have this automatic reaction to avoid peoples' influence in what I do because I think it's overwhelming to me. But I no drive to control others. Social influence means little to me, not in the way of power. I still have a side of me that is very much into self expression, but it's not about power or social influence. Money for me is just a means to getting things I want, I have absolutely no drive to gain it for power or through expression of power. Resources I suppose goes back to control in a way. I can be very possessive with my things and with my space and I don't really like sharing or having people intrude. All of this is more about myself, it's rarely if ever about controlling other people or things outside of me. In a way, I feel like that lack of drive is something abnormal that puts me at a weakness in comparison to others. I feel like it's odd and off. I will say I have this part of me inside that sometimes has this raw drive to destroy things around me or to go up against adversaries. Not about a lasting tangible kind of power, but it's for that raw feeling right in that moment, like a vampire drawing blood and feeling their life slip back into their body. Physically, when I exercise, I really love the feeling of being fit and feeling ablebodied. It's not really because I want to have power over others, it's just something very raw inside of me

There is a different kind of power I do have a lust for. I've felt this drive for a long time to be able to tap into peoples' minds because I believe every little experience taken in and every innate characteristic makes for a unique way of looking at the world and it bothers me I'm not able to take these in for myself. My lust is to be able to see things from their perspectives, take them in, and make them mine. In a way, that is a kind of power, I suppose


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## Arya (Oct 17, 2012)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> imo, it looks something like this:
> *most power seeking:* 3, 8w7, Sp 7, So 2w3
> *power seeking:* 1, So 2w1, Sx and Sp 2w3, 5w6, cp6, Sx and So 7, 8w9
> *less power seeking:* Sp and Sx 2w1, 4w3
> ...


I wouldn't call cp 6 a power seeking type.... They only take power because they feel they have to ensure security, generally not because they are actually seeking power. Most sixes who are in positions of authority that I know spend their whole life complaining about how much they hate it.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

@Arya @lycanized
I think you underestimate the amount of power necessary to be truly independent and keep people from harming you. I don't really have a desire to control others either (unless they do so to me first, then I will make them my bitch and enjoy that shit thoroughly...), but the lifestyle I want requires a great deal of resources.


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## Arya (Oct 17, 2012)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> @_Arya_ @_lycanized_
> I think you underestimate the amount of power necessary to be truly independent and keep people from harming you. I don't really have a desire to control others either (unless they do so to me first, then I will make them my bitch and enjoy that shit thoroughly...), but the lifestyle I want requires a great deal of resources.


Power? That just requires intelligence. Nobody harms me because I know how to play the game and make alliances. And I pretty much do my own thing otherwise. I wouldn't call that power though.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Arya said:


> Power? That just requires intelligence. Nobody harms me because I know how to play the game and make alliances. And I pretty much do my own thing otherwise. I wouldn't call that power though.


intelligence and the ability to make strategic alliances are forms of power.


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## Arya (Oct 17, 2012)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> intelligence and the ability to make strategic alliances are forms of power.


Maybe you should put phobic six up higher than. I'm a phobic six, and I generally manage to keep control over what I want in life.


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## spiderfrommars (Feb 22, 2012)

This thread is puzzling because the most power-seeking types are the...power-seeking types. 8, 2 and 5. But I see you're talking more about power correlated with status/resources, right? So I don't understand why phobic 6 is on the lowest tier. Don't they fit themselves into systems in order to gain security? And you clarified that power-seeking can just be the seeking of resources to ensure security. Yes, they rely on others for protection, but this could be seen as power-seeking too, since they have "friends in the right places." Also, I think the ways you defined power sound very SO and SP, so SX-first people would automatically be less power-seeking, even SX 8s.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

spiderfrommars said:


> This thread is puzzling because the most power-seeking types are the...power-seeking types. 8, 2 and 5. *But I see you're talking more about power correlated with status/resources, right? So I don't understand why phobic 6 is on the lowest tier.* Don't they fit themselves into systems in order to gain security? And you clarified that power-seeking can just be the seeking of resources to ensure security. Yes, they rely on others for protection, but this could be seen as power-seeking too, since they have "friends in the right places."


it's more like resources, (relevant) competency and *control*. phobic 6s are lower down because they submit themselves to the authority of systems. 



> Also, I think the ways you defined power sound very SO and SP, so SX-first people would automatically be less power-seeking, even SX 8s.


overall, yeah. So/Sp is probably the most powerful overall, but it depends on the core type (Sp 7s are much more powerful than So 7 in general).


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## Father of Dragons (May 7, 2012)

@_Swordsman of Mana_

Have you ever seen the tv show Suits? One of the main characters, Harvey Spectre seems to me like the ideal type of person to navigate and conquer in American corporate culture, ie. arguably one of the most powerful types of people in our culture. 

I have seen him typed as ENTJ 3w4 so/sp, but I wonder if he might be typed sp/so instead. Social first would make sense because he is most concerned about being on the top of the mountain, but SP might make sense in terms of looking after his own ass. 

This clip is pretty representative of his personality... I'm curious of what your take on him might be...?






Actually this is probably better, with less music:


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

Obviously, rejection triaders (2,5,8) are power-seeking, and the the ids in general are power seeking. Add 1s and cp6s to the list, for reasons I don't need to spell out. Expertise is a form of power you didn't mention.



> Getting Mine. In the average range, Self-Preservation Sevens are determined, energetic people, driven to make sure that their basic needs and comforts will always be met. Their attitudes and concerns tend to emphasize the practical and the material. (In the immortal words of Scarlett O'Hara, "As God is my witness, I will never go hungry again!") They tend to be ambitious and work hard to insure that options will remain open to them.
> 
> Self-Preservation Sevens are also classic consumers. They enjoy shopping, traveling, and pampering themselves, making it their business to gather information about the potential sources of enjoyment (catalogues, movie listings, travel and restaurant guides). These Sevens are especially on the lookout for sales and bargains, and like discussing these matters with friends. ("I just found the most darling mugs at the Pottery Barn.") While they enjoy socializing, Self-Preservation Sevens fear developing dependencies on others and avoid having others depend on them.
> 
> ...



Will comment on this quote when I am in the mood for delving further into Enneagram crap


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