# Is lack of internal energy and vitality related to the withdrawn triad?



## Vaka (Feb 26, 2010)

I'm not talking about physical energy, it's a less tangible kind of energy. A feeling like you just lack something you need inside of you to deal with certain things outside of you in life, so you have to withdraw into your world so they don't take you completely. It's almost like there's some barrier you're just unable to cross


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## The Scorched Earth (May 17, 2010)

The whole feeling that you're lacking something to deal with life is a symptom of type 4, so possibly. Type 5 overexpresses its mental energy to compensate for its fear of the world breaking in. Type 9 disengages from the world because at their core they don't feel substantial enough to affect things.

In other words, you may be on to something.


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## Paradigm (Feb 16, 2010)

No, it's mostly just plain ol' introversion. Like most of the traits people think are withdrawn.


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## Vaka (Feb 26, 2010)

Paradigm said:


> No, it's mostly just plain ol' introversion. Like most of the traits that people think are withdrawn.


There are a lot of introverts, yet most of them aren't like that. So I know it can't be introversion. What would be withdrawn then?


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## Vaka (Feb 26, 2010)

@Paradigm

I know what introvert draining feels like, it's different than both an inherent feeling of lacking that internal energy to deal with life, feeling like you're gonna be swallowed up, or like you just can't be in tune with what others are in tune with. Introvert draining feels like I'm mentally drained and tired. It's more concrete than that


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## Paradigm (Feb 16, 2010)

lycanized said:


> There are a lot of introverts, yet most of them aren't like that. So I know it can't be introversion. What would be withdrawn then?


Well, no, unless you've outright asked them all (in which case I will apologize), you can't know how they all feel inside. They may not manifest that behavior in a way you recognize.

Your last post made it sound more like SOC-last, but trying to put a type to two sentences is a bit hard.


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## Vaka (Feb 26, 2010)

Paradigm said:


> Well, no, unless you've outright asked them all (in which case I will apologize), you can't know how they all feel inside. They may not manifest that behavior in a way you recognize.
> 
> Your last post made it sound more like SOC-last, but trying to put a type to two sentences is a bit hard.


I have talked about it. No introvert has related to it so far which makes me say it's not introversion. I know what introversion is anyway. A lot even seem fairly level. If it was just a plain old introvert trait, I wouldn't be so odd in my behavior
I started the thread because there was a type 5 thread about energy in which it seemed like most people were talking about physical energy. When I posted in it, I posted about this kind of energy, that core kind of energy to deal with the world and the lack which causes you to hide from it. That's how I look at it

That last post was about my introversion, but I am social last anyway


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## Vaka (Feb 26, 2010)

I'm actually quite lethargic, I just don't see what it has to do with being a withdrawn type...


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## Paradigm (Feb 16, 2010)

The problem is your descriptions are very short here, and you can't put a type to two sentences because two types could feel the same way for different reasons. For example, a phobic 6 could spend all day in their room because they feel they lack the skills or ability to interact with the world, but that doesn't make them a withdrawn (hiding) or competent (skill-based) triader, it's just a manifestation of their core (feeling unprepared [for life]). 

So the question becomes *why *do you feel this way, not what do you feel.

EDIT: It could even be basic depression. And I speak about that as someone with depression.

---
Also, @_Ice Ghost_, your short description of 4 sounded like 6 to me, but your 5 and 9 was good. It depends on what you meant 4s are lacking. Could you elaborate? I'm working from this:


> People of Enneatype Four construct their identities around their perception of themselves as being somehow unique and fundamentally different from others. This deep felt sense of being “different from” or “other than” pervades the Four’s sense of self, and functions as the basis for the Four’s attempt to create a persona that properly reflects who they feel they really are.





> People of enneatype Six are essentially insecure, as though life has never quite provided them with a proper footing, as though there existed nothing, either internally or externally, which could serve as a solid foundation.


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## SharkT00th (Sep 5, 2012)

this is certainly enneagram related, could you expand on it?


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## Vaka (Feb 26, 2010)

Paradigm said:


> The problem is your descriptions are very short here, and you can't put a type to two sentences because two types could feel the same way for different reasons. For example, a phobic 6 could spend all day in their room because they feel they lack the skills or ability to interact with the world, but that doesn't make them a withdrawn (hiding) or competent (skill-based) triader, it's just a manifestation of their core (feeling unprepared [for life]).
> 
> So the question becomes *why *do you feel this way, not what do you feel.


I didn't want to make the thread about myself, but about withdrawness in the enneagram since I don't see it as a lack of physical energy, but I could talk about it in more detail. I'll just have to wait until tomorrow because I'm very sleepy

I can see where Ice Ghost was going with it because some of it can have to do with feeling fundamentally different. Some of it just reinforces that feeling..Others have something you just weren't born with for some odd reason. Not plans or a rulebook, something deeper and more embedded in your core. It's being different in a way that makes your existence something more tragic




> EDIT: It could even be basic depression. And I speak about that as someone with depression.


I'm taking antidepressants right now. Before starting them again, my experience was not feeling a drive to do anything...anything at all but sit and do nothing. Preoccupied with something that I couldn't quite put my finger on, but took up all of my focus. And I usually have a distinct lack of inertia, but that was something completely different. I couldn't do anything


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## Paradigm (Feb 16, 2010)

lycanized said:


> I didn't want to make the thread about myself, but about withdrawness in the enneagram since I don't see it as a lack of physical energy, but I could talk about it in more detail. I'll just have to wait until tomorrow because I'm very sleepy


That's alright, take your time. I would rather wait for something more in-depth as it would be more useful. IMO, personal experiences are more "accurate" than claiming X trait applies to a specific type or triad.



> I can see where Ice Ghost was going with it because some of it can have to do with feeling fundamentally different. Some of it just reinforces that feeling..Others have something you just weren't born with for some odd reason. Not plans or a rulebook, something deeper and more embedded in your core. It's being different in a way that makes your existence something more tragic


It could be that as a 614, I find it difficult to separate what I feel is lacking as 6ish or 4ish. Such as, I feel like I lack social skills and the ability to connect like everyone else, but I could pin that on SOC-last, 6, 4, or my life experiences and they would all be pretty valid reasons. I suppose the whole "tragic" thing is particularly 4ish, as I've mostly felt... confused, wondering why everyone else was born with this mysterious knowledge I wasn't (irrational feeling is irrational).

Thanks for explaining though, it made more sense 



> I'm taking antidepressants right now. Before starting them again, my experience was not feeling a drive to do anything...anything at all but sit and do nothing. Preoccupied with something that I couldn't quite put my finger on, but took up all of my focus. And I usually have a distinct lack of inertia, but that was something completely different. I couldn't do anything


Well, my first thought is that it could still be depression because it varies so much and antidepressants don't always help 100%. _But_ I should quickly follow that up with the fact that I tend to think globally, as in I'm not making judgements about your experience, simply thinking that someone else could be depressed and feel what would be your normal inertia. 

Anyway, looking forward to seeing your more details


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## DemonAbyss10 (Oct 28, 2010)

5-9-4 (or 5-4-9, still trying to figure that bit out) but from first hand experiences... It is usually more of a sick of the whole 'Same old same old' yet not really feeling motivated to do a thing about it. It then basically feeds off of itself and it just keeps compounding. In reality, it is quite similar to the dreaded Ti-Ni loop from the MBTI. That is my thought on it anyways.


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## Vaka (Feb 26, 2010)

DemonAbyss10 said:


> 5-9-4 (or 5-4-9, still trying to figure that bit out) but from first hand experiences... It is usually more of a sick of the whole 'Same old same old' yet not really feeling motivated to do a thing about it. It then basically feeds off of itself and it just keeps compounding. In reality, it is quite similar to the dreaded Ti-Ni loop from the MBTI. That is my thought on it anyways.


Where does the lack of motivation come from?


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## Kazoo The Kid (May 26, 2013)

I've had huge struggles with getting the motivation to do anything in the past. Like at one point I could not find a reason to leave my bed.

I'm fairly certain it came from my inner 6. I saw the world as chaotic and unpredictable. I could never find security in such a chaotic and unpredictable world. Therefore I saw no point in ever trying with anything. I saw safety as an unreachable goal. So I gave up and gave into deep depression.

My 4 takes depression differently. Rather then looking at myself as unique. I look at myself as "wrong" and "incorrect". And "not the way I should have been" which leads to me hating my uniqueness rather being proud of it like I usually am.

I'm a 6w7 4w3 1w2 if that helps.


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## Peter (Feb 27, 2010)

lycanized said:


> I'm not talking about physical energy, it's a less tangible kind of energy. A feeling like you just lack something you need inside of you to deal with certain things outside of you in life, so you have to withdraw into your world so they don't take you completely. It's almost like there's some barrier you're just unable to cross


Physical energy and mental energy (I'm guessing that's what you mean) are related. Lack of physical energy is often caused by not eating right (Lack of micro nutrients).

But I don't think that's what you´re experiencing even though eating better always helps.

Sounds like you´re struggling with dealing with (some) people while you want to have more interaction with (some) people and you believe you´re the one blocking this interaction but also you consider it invasive when you do actually interact.

Does that make sense?


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## Vaka (Feb 26, 2010)

Peter said:


> Physical energy and mental energy (I'm guessing that's what you mean) are related. Lack of physical energy is often caused by not eating right (Lack of micro nutrients).
> 
> But I don't think that's what you´re experiencing even though eating better always helps.
> 
> ...


I have migraines too, so that ties into my lethargy

It's actually not people related, it can be related to people, but it's also universal and people are a piece of it


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## Peter (Feb 27, 2010)

lycanized said:


> I have migraines too, so that ties into my lethargy
> 
> It's actually not people related, it can be related to people, but it's also universal and people are a piece of it


What did you mean with: "so they don't take you completely."?


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## Vaka (Feb 26, 2010)

Peter said:


> What did you mean with: "so they don't take you completely."?


When I said that, I meant going out of the world can feel like it might actually suck my vitality. It's not energy so much as lifeforce, actually. And so I'd be left with nothing. It's a deep feeling rather than something I can really explain in concrete terms.But I've realized that plays a huge part in why I'm so stuck in my mind and room rather than going out in the world as much as others do. It's not that I want predictability, though. But that I could only act or handle things when I'm ready...mentally, I suppose. Not physically. That's why I wondered if that was what withdrawn hiding was. I couldn't attack it directly, it's too much a part of me and doing so would be inevitably fatal

I'll continue it on since a couple of others asked for more details...

Another part of it is that when I look around, I see so many people 'faking it'. They fake interactions, they fake jobs, they fake themselves. And I don't feel capable of that. Like going out of myself like that would be another thing to just drain my lifeforce. Staying in my world is the only thing that doesn't drain it. Every way in which I interact with the outside world has to in some way fit into my inner world and my core self, otherwise it's just doomed. And that extends to people too, just generally what I do in life. I don't know if I could even handle having a regular job in the future. It's not that I'd feel like I don't know how to do it, so I hide, I just don't feel I have it inside of me at the core to do it. I don't feel I have it inside of me to do many things

So quite literally, I live in my head. The outside is gonna be an extension of my mind. I fantasize a lot and I constantly am putting together my inner world, which I acknowledge is just a fantasy itself of what _is_ since I'll never really know what 'is'
There's a huge part of me that wants to suck up from the world what is intense, what would make me feel alive and like I am 'something'. Sometimes that feels like the opposite of that vitality drain. And one of the things that does to me is make me intensely absorbed in my thoughts and feelings and a mix of both, not just looking at them and thinking, but intensely absorbed

Where people tie in again, I can't handle many people. this might tie into 9. I just feel easily burdened by expectations and obligations and it makes me implode. I sometimes go in bouts where I'm messaging people online and then suddenly stop for maybe a week or so because it gets overwhelming. I think that also might just be introversion too. I just prefer to do things at my own pace and can't handle the pace outside of me. I don't like being held down by other kinds of obligations either for that reason. That just compounds my not being able to leave myself

And everything here together just compounds the feeling of being inherently different and lacking something other people have 
@Paradigm @SharkT00th


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## DemonAbyss10 (Oct 28, 2010)

lycanized said:


> Where does the lack of motivation come from?


it is best explained as it just simply being there. Been trying to figure out the whys, and figured in the end, trying to puzzle it out just causes me a headache, so best to just accept things and carry on.


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