# Why a BA is Now a Ticket to A Job in a Coffee Shop



## android654 (Jan 19, 2010)

There's a growing perception out there that a college degree no longer delivers the value that it used to. 








An employee takes orders at a Starbucks in Washington, D.C on December 27, 2012. (Drew Angerer/Getty)
Too many college kids are living in Mom's basement, or working at Starbucks. Like most personal finance columnists, I get the letters from them: what do I do? How do I fix this? For many, the answer is grad school. But I get the letters from grad students too. A while back, I found myself talking to a professor whose school has a number of impressive-sounding graduate programs that were originally conceived as add-ons for a professional degree in law or medicine or business. They are now attracting a number of students who just go for the standalone degree. He didn't understand what the career path was for these kids, and he wasn't sure that they did either. 

"It sounds good, so they can persuade their parents to pay for it," he said, a touch guiltily. 

A new paper from Paul Beaudry, David Green, and Benjamin Sand argues that these worried kids--and their worried parents--are not just imagining things. The phenomenon is all too real. Skilled workers with higher degrees are increasingly ending up in lower-skilled jobs that don't really require a degree--and in the process, they're pushing unskilled workers out of the labor force altogether. 








The graph above shows the average cognitive load of the work that college students are doing. As you can see, in the 1990-2000 period it spiked, as the IT revolution created new opportunities for "thought work". Then it started to fall. A brief recovery around 2006 was pretty much squashed by the financial crisis. Meanwhile, the amount of routine work that they're doing has risen. 








The authors think they have an explanation: during the great IT boom, the returns to cognitive skill rose. Since then, the process has gone into reverse: demand for cognitive tasks is falling. Perhaps this is because installing robots consumes more resources than maintaining them, or perhaps it's simply that the robots are doing an increasing number of those cognitive tasks. But whatever the reason, we no longer want or need so many skilled workers doing non-routine tasks with a big analytical component. The workers who can't get those jobs are taking less skilled ones. The lowest-skilled workers are dropping out entirely, many of them probably ending up on disability.








This is, of course, highly speculative: it's one paper. But it would explain a lot. Six months ago, I made quite a splash with a Newsweek story arguing that we may be overinvesting in college. There were basically three parts to this argument: first, that a lot of college attendance is signalling activity rather than skill acquisition; second, that more students with BAs are ending up in jobs that don't require them; and third, that a substantial number of kids don't finish, washing out with a lot of debt and no commensurate earning power to pay it. 

My many critics responded that the wage premium for a college graduate is higher than ever. But this is consistent with the story that Beaudry, et al are telling: lower skilled workers are increasingly falling out of the higher paying jobs altogether as college graduates move down the skill ladder. So while college graduates are having trouble getting college-style jobs, the unskilled workers are doing even worse. This is not necessarily evidence that the college degree is producing the wage--it might be that folks capable of getting into college would be able to get that barista job even if they didn't go. 

Obviously, if Beaudry et al right, this is ferociously depressing news. It suggests that we're pushing more and more people into (more and more expensive) college programs, even as the number of jobs in which they can use those skills has declined. A growing number of students may be in a credentialling arms race to gain access to routine service jobs. Or maybe the productivity of our nation's wait staff is spiking as more skilled workers flood into these jobs. 

Unfortunately, there's no obvious policy response to this. It's easier to create more college educated workers through government policy than it is to create jobs for them. It's not even obvious what the personal response should be--except that if you're planning to major in English, you should maybe see if you can't get a job at Starbucks instead.




Why a BA is Now a Ticket to A Job in a Coffee Shop - The Daily Beast

Disconcerting to say the least...


----------



## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

I have to laugh -- when you said "BA," I thought you meant Breast Augmentation.

I'm certain it also would contribute to acquiring a barista position. (Well, unless you're a guy who gets one.)


----------



## android654 (Jan 19, 2010)

Jennywocky said:


> I have to laugh -- when you said "BA," I thought you meant Breast Augmentation.
> 
> I'm certain it also would contribute to acquiring a barista position. (Well, unless you're a guy who gets one.)


I'd pay five bucks to see a man with a wooly beard and size g breasts pour me a cappuccino. I mean how many times am I gonna get to see that?


----------



## bluekitdon (Dec 19, 2012)

In my opinion, most major universities charge more than you'll get in return for the first five years or so of your career. I'd start with community college, then transfer to a university to finish off if you're really concerned about that name, or just finish off at the community college. 

Unless you're a lawyer or something the name of the university doesn't mean much to employers in my experience, they just want to be able to check the box that says you have a degree somewhat relevant to what you'll be doing there. Even then, I can't think of the last time I've asked my doctor or my lawyer what school they graduated from.


----------



## FlightsOfFancy (Dec 30, 2012)

bluekitdon said:


> In my opinion, most major universities charge more than you'll get in return for the first five years or so of your career. I'd start with community college, then transfer to a university to finish off if you're really concerned about that name, or just finish off at the community college.
> 
> Unless you're a lawyer or something the name of the university doesn't mean much to employers in my experience, they just want to be able to check the box that says you have a degree somewhat relevant to what you'll be doing there. Even then, I can't think of the last time I've asked my doctor or my lawyer what school they graduated from.


Even in these cases, it devolves into your actual experience/work. No one cares if you went to Harvard and constantly misdiagnose patients or lose lawsuits. It's the foot in the door not the crutch.


----------



## chimeric (Oct 15, 2011)

Well. That's both depressing and true.


----------



## android654 (Jan 19, 2010)

chimeric said:


> Well. That's both depressing and true.


There's a bright side to this. Knowing that a degree in anything other than applied sciences or mathematics may give people the courage to go after what they truly want rather than enlist to college only to play it safe and never really chase their dreams.


----------



## astriom (Mar 22, 2013)

bluekitdon said:


> In my opinion, most major universities charge more than you'll get in return for the first five years or so of your career. I'd start with community college, then transfer to a university to finish off if you're really concerned about that name, or just finish off at the community college.
> 
> Unless you're a lawyer or something the name of the university doesn't mean much to employers in my experience, they just want to be able to check the box that says you have a degree somewhat relevant to what you'll be doing there. Even then, I can't think of the last time I've asked my doctor or my lawyer what school they graduated from.


I think university name dropping is geared more toward getting hired in the first place than it is toward getting customers. I think there is a fundamental flaw in the general perception of how academic credentials translate into job performance. You can graduate valedictorian at some prestigious ivy league school and be the worst employee anyone has ever had, or you could drop out and be the best they've ever had. The problem is that drop-out is never even considered based on his lack of academic credentials.

The data presented here seems to be fairly accurate, but I wonder at some of the suggested sources of this problem being pointed out in this article. I'm sure there are other things that also contribute to this, like the fact that more and more baby boomers are retiring at a much older age for financial reasons. The job market could be getting stagnated for this reason, removing many possible positions that 50 years ago would have a faster turnover. But any other potential contributing factors don't seem to be considered here.


----------



## BarryO (Mar 13, 2013)

android654 said:


> I'd pay five bucks to see a man with a wooly beard and size g breasts pour me a cappuccino. I mean how many times am I gonna get to see that?


You will have to leave Montana for LA to see that.


----------



## astriom (Mar 22, 2013)

BarryO said:


> You will have to leave Montana for LA to see that.
> View attachment 66315


well there something you don't see everyday...


----------



## AriesLilith (Jan 6, 2013)

Before the college degree threads of PerC, I never really thought that one could end up with a debt that can almost pay off a house. A debt of 100.000€ is what me and my husband have to pay for our apartment... With rates (is this the right word?), for some 40 years. Here around 2005, at Portugal, the average price for public college was around 600~700€ per year. Then somehow it escalated to 1200€ +- per year. The private colleges costs around 300€ per month I guess? So you can say that the reality here and there in US are very very different. Now speaking as a computer science engineering graduate... Personally, while of course I agree that in our field, diploma does not necessarily mean skills, and that a non graduate can excel a graduate, I would say that there is value in getting a diploma. It is a proof that one satisfied the requirements and standards, enough to be acknowledged as a graduate. Also, there is value in education. You learn not only to work with different technologies, but it also works your way of thinking and problem solving. And then many bigger companies in our field would also only hire graduates, maybe unless the person is really skilled and can prove it with extensive CV history. But in anyways... Again, there is value in education, and IMO, it should be a right that everyone can have. People should be able to pursuit knowledge and guidance in what they are interested in. Maybe people from the US should try to pursuit further studies and college in other countries? Honestly, with all that money, they could even buy a house in another country during their stay...


----------



## BarryO (Mar 13, 2013)

astriom said:


> well there something you don't see everyday...


Not where i live, see it all the time


----------



## HandiAce (Nov 27, 2009)

Anything but working for the public pleaseeee!


----------



## android654 (Jan 19, 2010)

astriom said:


> well there something you don't see everyday...


Please, you see drag queens on the train all the time. If anything he's not really putting his heart into it.


----------



## astriom (Mar 22, 2013)

android654 said:


> If anything he's not really putting his heart into it.


This is what I meant. Most of the one's I've seen have put forth a lot of effort.



android654 said:


> Please, you see drag queens on the train all the time.


Not here in Denver. At least not in the area I live. In fact, I don't think I've seen a single one since I moved here. Shame, too. They'd make my commute more interesting. (I mean that in a good way.)


----------



## DemonAbyss10 (Oct 28, 2010)

astriom said:


> This is what I meant. Most of the one's I've seen have put forth a lot of effort.
> 
> Not here in Denver. At least not in the area I live. In fact, I don't think I've seen a single one since I moved here. Shame, too. They'd make my commute more interesting. (I mean that in a good way.)


heh, lehigh valley drag queens seem to put in a ton of effort, actually have a sizable population the frequent the malls.


----------



## McSwiggins (Apr 2, 2013)

The op points out that the hiring trends are driven in a large part by market realities (e.g. the spike during the .com boom). The current decline is no exeption to those market realities. At any given time, and individual's employment options are directly proportional to the value he or she can provide an employer, and the benefit offered by a typical BA grad is not nearly the value of a typical BS degree holder. When economic cycles change and hiring becomes hot again, employers will be looking for intelligent, educated people that are trainable, and BA degrees will again gain traction in the marketplace.


----------

