# Do you think extremely attractive women are really that hard to get?



## All in Twilight (Oct 12, 2012)

Extraverted Delusion said:


> You can simulate that same mystery of an up-close-and-personal scent with a conservative application of a good quality cologne. I'm not talking all of that entry-level big advertisement cologne either. It should never permeate past a foot or so anyway. I know what you mean with this though, but there isn't one universal law of attraction when it comes to smell as it is merely supplementary to your overall appeal.
> 
> However, like all things that complement each other, your scent should complement your personality and overall nature. The same is generally applicable to your choice in clothing as well.


And this coming from a guy wearing some sort of gas mask/napkin covering his nose


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## All in Twilight (Oct 12, 2012)

Adnan Syed said:


> No matter how attractive a woman she is only going to last till she turns 30. Beauty doesnt last long.


Oh my god. So shallow and demeaning and so not true. So not true. My ex is 35 and she was HOT! I think she is more more attractive than when she was like 25. Real beauty lasts forever.


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## All in Twilight (Oct 12, 2012)

Sai said:


> confidence and charm, thats all you need. Heck im ugly as hell and poor and i get liked by models. Its crazy but its all about charm.
> And dont be that nice, hot girls want an "equal" not a servant.


You are not ugly. There is something enigmatic about you that can be appealing to women. I agree with the charm part although there are many interpretations of the word charm. Some women consider clumsiness to be a charming personality trait. I just think it looks stupid. And there we have our first problem


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## The Proof (Aug 5, 2009)

I think a lot of really pretty girls are actually complete duds

"-I'm a model
-What do you plan to do afterwards?
-After modelling? I don't know... I haven't thought about it"

lolz

I think comparatively few really pretty girls are complete bitches tho, many are quite nice people


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## Extraverted Delusion (Oct 23, 2011)

Usernamefoundyeyme said:


> And this coming from a guy wearing some sort of gas mask/napkin covering his nose


So much for shampoo, eh?

Welcome back to PerC


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## All in Twilight (Oct 12, 2012)

The Proof said:


> I think a lot of really pretty girls are actually complete duds
> 
> "-I'm a model
> -What do you plan to do afterwards?
> -After modelling? I don't know... I haven't thought about it"


Actually, that is very wise for some weird reason and I am jealous as hell.


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## bsrk1 (Jul 18, 2012)

Penguin said:


> My point is, I have found that usually women who have a lot to offer both physically and personality wise intimidate most guys except d bags, so me being a decent (not great but not a total jerk) guy can approach almost anyone who I think is probably "to good" for me. Is my theory true? Or am I just getting really lucky?


Ive wondered the exact same thing. I used to never try because i thought hot girls because where intimidating and where too good for me. Then i said fuck it and started trying, and have had lots of success. Ive actually dated 2 legit models who had jobs modeling and have dated a coulple more who had the looks to be models.... not that i only date based on looks. Honestly i think its all about the approach and first impression with these kinds of girls. Im not a d bag at all and i think thats attractive, im am quietly confident, genuine, smart, literally the nicest guy you will ever meet who also happens to be assertive and a little wild.... which shows. I think these kinds of girls like that.


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## Chickadee (Oct 13, 2012)

Just don't keep saying things like "I don't understand why you would love me" and "I don't know why you're still with me," and "you're so pretty, I'm just waiting for you to leave me, but I'd still be happy for knowing you" over and over and over. Because then she will question why she is with you.

Self-esteem is attractive no matter what you look like. Wanting and working on good self-esteem is great too. I'd be willing to work with an insecure man if he was truly wanting to work on it. I don't think I could be with a man who was "ruined" by society or other girls to the point that he no longer loves himself. No matter how he acts.

And I'll take a nice guy over a dick any day. I'd drop a hot guy with no manners/respect in a day, and work with a nice guy who fumbles a little for a lifetime.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

Penguin said:


> My point is, I have found that usually women who have a lot to offer both physically and personality wise intimidate most guys except d bags, so me being a decent (not great but not a total jerk) guy can approach almost anyone who I think is probably "to good" for me. Is my theory true? Or am I just getting really lucky?


No, it's just I don't like to wade through all the competition.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

lhebakshyla said:


> They simply wouldn't settle down with the guy you would settle down with.
> 
> They want a real man. A man who's got more than just a wallet and a dick. A man with character. They have a lot more to offer. They have higher standards than you. And a lot of very attractive and intelligent women I loved told me how long they had to wait for me.


Thats no way to talk to a lady. 

(Obvious troll was obvious - and now banned.)


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## Penguin (Sep 25, 2012)

Chickadee said:


> Just don't keep saying things like "I don't understand why you would love me" and "I don't know why you're still with me," and "you're so pretty, I'm just waiting for you to leave me, but I'd still be happy for knowing you" over and over and over. Because then she will question why she is with you.
> 
> Self-esteem is attractive no matter what you look like. Wanting and working on good self-esteem is great too. I'd be willing to work with an insecure man if he was truly wanting to work on it. I don't think I could be with a man who was "ruined" by society or other girls to the point that he no longer loves himself. No matter how he acts.
> 
> And I'll take a nice guy over a dick any day. I'd drop a hot guy with no manners/respect in a day, and work with a nice guy who fumbles a little for a lifetime.



goes for women too (= solid post, thanks


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## Jabberbroccoli (Mar 19, 2011)

Maybe said:


> Not just exceptions... i think a great mind/ personality and great body are entirely unrelated.
> 
> The thing is, our experiences are different, and define us to an extent. For instance, there's no difference between a black person and a white person at heart, but a black person growing up in a white neighborhood and being the only black person in that school might have a different experience which would define her as a person, to an extent, but it would not necessarily detract from the person she is, it would just have an effect because it's an experience.
> 
> Similarly, looking the way I look (good enough, not gorgeous) has had an affect on me, and being drop dead gorgeous has had an affect on my friends, because of the way others react to us, but that doesn't change how compassionate or smart we are to begin with. It doesn't change our core. Our core will determine how we HANDLE the physical situation that we are given.


Well, I'm sexy as well. ;D

I don't find it any more difficult to get with a hot chick than a not-so-hot-chick. I never date average or below average girls, I just can't get into that. I think where most guys have problems is they're too busy worshipping the body of the hot lady to actually flirt properly. There's also the bit where most guys can't flirt properly in the first place.


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## bsrk1 (Jul 18, 2012)

Chickadee said:


> Just don't keep saying things like "I don't understand why you would love me" and "I don't know why you're still with me," and "you're so pretty, I'm just waiting for you to leave me, but I'd still be happy for knowing you" over and over and over. Because then she will question why she is with you.
> 
> Self-esteem is attractive no matter what you look like. Wanting and working on good self-esteem is great too. I'd be willing to work with an insecure man if he was truly wanting to work on it. I don't think I could be with a man who was "ruined" by society or other girls to the point that he no longer loves himself. No matter how he acts.
> 
> And I'll take a nice guy over a dick any day. I'd drop a hot guy with no manners/respect in a day, and work with a nice guy who fumbles a little for a lifetime.


i truely dont understand why any guy would say those things... it just goes against my idea of attractiveness. i guess im different, if i like a girl i tell her straight up i like her and never think i shouldn't be with her. maybe im just luckly confident.


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## susurration (Oct 22, 2009)

*wonders why I walked into this thread* *walks out*


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## bsrk1 (Jul 18, 2012)

to be honest, my friend talked to a VERY attractive bartender who said she never gives out numbers... challenge accepted, ive talked to her a few times but havent yet asked for her number. Ive talked to her and she seems genuinley intersested in me. tonight i plan on hitting on her. lol.


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## bsrk1 (Jul 18, 2012)

susurration said:


> *wonders why I walked into this thread* *walks out*


why? everyone deserves self confidence.


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## Mr. Meepers (May 31, 2012)

> Do you think extremely attractive women are really that hard to get?


No, they all want me :wink:


* *






Define attractive .... Once you fall in love with someone, they already are the most attractive person in the world to you :wink:

That being said, I can blush and be bashful around women I like ... even if they are not "physically attractive" ... (although I am a flirt :wink


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## Mr. Meepers (May 31, 2012)

Maybe said:


> Not just exceptions... i think a great mind/ personality and great body are entirely unrelated.


I beg to differ ... I think once you learn someone has a great mind/personality and you start to connect with them on a deeper level, for some reason, they start to have a great body too ^__^
Although, it does not really work the opposite way as well (although someone who has a great body can fool a person into thinking that they have a great personality as well :tongue

Btw, have I told you that you have a great mind and personality :wink:


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## cue5c (Oct 12, 2011)

It depends. Do you refer to them as extremely attractive women or as people? Because there's a difference.


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## Chickadee (Oct 13, 2012)

bsrk1 said:


> i truely dont understand why any guy would say those things... it just goes against my idea of attractiveness. i guess im different, if i like a girl i tell her straight up i like her and never think i shouldn't be with her. maybe im just luckly confident.


Because some guys are not very confident in themselves or they have been very hurt by women in the past and can't let go and trust a new person. That's what I think anyway. Like @Penguin said earlier, it applies to girls too. I'm not trying to gang up on guys, but I've only (obviously) experienced this with guys.


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## Tridentus (Dec 14, 2009)

One of the main difference between a guy who gets with attractive women, and those who don't, are that the guys who are going out with attractive women just see them as _women_. A guy who doesn't looks at a girl and thinks "oh, lucy, she's so much hotter than becky".. The guy who might be dating her thinks "oh, lucy, she's so much cooler than that becky, becky's a downer". -and will think the vice versa if becky is better to hang around with, even if lucy is more attractive.

Just trying to focus only on women's personalities without noticing their attractiveness will take you a huge way. Although I'm not going to pretend that it'll answer all your prayers, because the good ones will still only come along every now and then- not every week or some other kind of hyped up fantasy.

How do I know this? because most of the girls I've been out with have been very attractive- but I only ever pine after that fact when my options are limited. When I'm the confident version of myself that got with them, I was only thinking about how cool their personalities were.


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## Penguin (Sep 25, 2012)

Tridentus said:


> One of the main difference between a guy who gets with attractive women, and those who don't, are that the guys who are going out with attractive women just see them as _women_. A guy who doesn't looks at a girl and thinks "oh, lucy, she's so much hotter than becky".. The guy who might be dating her thinks "oh, lucy, she's so much cooler than that becky, becky's a downer". -and will think the vice versa if becky is better to hang around with, even if lucy is more attractive.
> 
> Just trying to focus only on women's personalities without noticing their attractiveness will take you a huge way. Although I'm not going to pretend that it'll answer all your prayers, because the good ones will still only come along every now and then- not every week or some other kind of hyped up fantasy.
> 
> How do I know this? because most of the girls I've been out with have been very attractive- but I only ever pine after that fact when my options are limited. When I'm the confident version of myself that got with them, I was only thinking about how cool their personalities were.


great words good advice.


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## eydimork (Mar 19, 2014)

I think hard to get is the wrong way to phrase it. In most cases I don't want to approach them. And in most cases I feel that our personality isn't on par, that they wouldn't like me. And I'm fine with that. I wouldn't want them to change, and I don't think that it would be wise if I changed just to match up with them. 

There are two types that I'm extremely attractive to though

1. *Physical*. (*Example 1*. *Example 2*.) She's a bit of rock&roll, borderline indie. Dressed in dark clothes. Has dark hair, often with dark red or purple stripes. She hangs her hair up and down a bit here and there with hairpins. She can be blonde too, I don't care, they're just rarer. I don't notice her breasts or bottom, she's just thin. It's her face that I fall completely in love with. Her eyes and mouth, specially when she laughs. She's not cute or sexy, she's pretty. Very pretty. Most guys go for her bimbo friend, or the other bimbos in the room for some reason. And I don't even think dirty thoughts about this girl I just want to relish how pretty she is. 

2. *Personality*. Just think of a girl that wants to sell you a jacket, and she doesn't care if she offends you in the process. That's it. That's my dream girl's personality. I come in, I'm on the lookout for a specific jacket, she just goes "LOL!" and looks at me like I'm an idiot "You don't want that jacket." "But I..." "No, you don't." She sizes me up "Uhuh, yeah, you want THIS jacket." "But I..." "No buts. Buy my jacket, bitch!" She's such a bully *tears*

And as you can probably tell, the former is much easier to approach than the latter. Unless it's your M.O. to subjugate, and that will never be an interest of mine. The girl with my favorite personality just makes me shit my pants. But at least I can laugh at myself. I know most people would. Or cry, because it's pathetic. It's funny though. 

I think I might be high. Why did I write this? whyidunno.


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## Villainous (Dec 31, 2012)

Game works better on really attractive girls, but the issue is access. How often do you really run into a super attractive woman?


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## Children Of The Bad Revolution (Oct 8, 2013)

Villainous said:


> Game works better on really attractive girls, but the issue is access. How often do you really run into a super attractive woman?


Since beauty is subjective, can anyone answer that?


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## ficsci (May 4, 2011)

Er sorry but 11 pages is tldr

But responding to the first post, I think you should think it's unfair that the only guys approaching her are d-bags. She deserves much better.


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## Frenetic Tranquility (Aug 5, 2011)

Michael Nihil:2999098 said:


> From witnessing it on lots of occasions, yes, I do. I no longer attempt to go after them like I did when I was a young idiot. And this is why I don't let looks dictate anything anymore. I don't want to go after a woman who feels herself superior to others simply because she is physically attractive. It works both ways also, men who act superior, overly superficial, and condescending, aka, 'hard to get' because they think themselves *so* good looking, are douches.
> 
> On the other hand, if a man or woman is very intelligent and learned, and this makes them 'hard to get', in that they want a partner on the same intellectual plane as themselves, then that's more understandable.


Why is that more understandable?

It seems to me that each subset just has different values. People that value physical attractiveness look for it, just as people who value smarts look for that. Or whatever other value. It seems to just be human to have all sorts of individual criteria, however silly or not, that makes one feel fulfilled.

I say it's all understandable.


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## Aya the Abysswalker (Mar 23, 2012)

It depends a lot on the woman we're talking about. Maybe you're just unlucky.


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## Penguin (Sep 25, 2012)

Aya Nikopol said:


> It depends a lot on the woman we're talking about. Maybe you're just unlucky.


your sig.

I love that game. its so deep. changed the way I view...life.


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## Aya the Abysswalker (Mar 23, 2012)

Penguin said:


> your sig.
> 
> I love that game. its so deep. changed the way I view...life.


I'm a pretty big fan of the game as well, it's truly an experience. It shows a different view of life even though it's riddled with old cliches. It's way it uses those cliches to touch the hearts and minds of the players. That comes especially true with characters like Havelock, Martin or Daud. And our dark eyed friend knows it all.

I especially love that line. It applied very well to this forum in more ways than one.

As for the topic at hand, I do believe you got unlucky with the girls you meet. Probably you should try to search in different places and forget the way they look. Pretty girls tent to very boring in my experience and pretty girls who are intelligent are hard to come by.


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## Penguin (Sep 25, 2012)

Aya Nikopol said:


> I'm a pretty big fan of the game as well, it's truly an experience. It shows a different view of life even though it's riddled with old cliches. It's way it uses those cliches to touch the hearts and minds of the players. That comes especially true with characters like Havelock, Martin or Daud. And our dark eyed friend knows it all.
> 
> I especially love that line. It applied very well to this forum in more ways than one.
> 
> As for the topic at hand, I do believe you got unlucky with the girls you meet. Probably you should try to search in different places and forget the way they look. Pretty girls tent to very boring in my experience and pretty girls who are intelligent are hard to come by.


agreed on all fronts


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

Aya Nikopol said:


> Pretty girls tent to very boring in my experience and pretty girls who are intelligent are hard to come by.



Hey.


well for the record, not that I'm intelligent or anything. But this pretty girl has lumped penguin in the "means well. But young with entitled attitudes , mismanaged expectations" I do not feel sorry for him any more than I would any other guy. This thread in itself screams entitlement. Pretty girl says gross


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## FallingSlowly (Jul 1, 2013)

Aya Nikopol said:


> Pretty girls tent to very boring in my experience and *pretty girls who are intelligent are hard to come by.*


Wow - nice, dat catty/bitchy behaviour between women. Undoubtedly, all blondes are dumb, too? 

On top of that, is "pretty" not _pretty_ relative anyway - too relative to generalise in such a manner?


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## Aya the Abysswalker (Mar 23, 2012)

@NK @FallingSlowly

That's only my experience with both men and women. Intelligence =/= good looks.
The most intelligence and influential people in my life were ugly or not conventionally attractive. I never had a handsome boyfriend and I don't regret it at all. They were intelligent.
Attractive people, in my experience, tent to be full of themselves.

With that said, I'll said that I'll be attracted for you more if you're intelligent rather than if you're amazingly good looking.
Of course I have crushes based on look cooffalexturnercoff but everyone has those.

Ugly/not attractive people can be stupid and dumb as well but that habit been my experience.


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## FearAndTrembling (Jun 5, 2013)

Really, really, undeniably, undisputed, universally recognized beautiful women, are, probably, hard to get. Beautiful women have an immense amount of power in our society -- which we give them. Well, I don't obviously, because I am always doing the right thing. So in a sense society cultivates these women, and puts some women on this pedestal, and some just go with it. 

Like this Angie Varona girl. Internet sensation. The internet and media has filled her head with the idea that she is very special, through their obsession. That probably would affect a lot of people psychologically, and inflate their ego. It would me. 

I have no idea how hard women are to get, really. Still haven't figured them out.


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## xisnotx (Mar 20, 2014)

What's a "women"?


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## FallingSlowly (Jul 1, 2013)

Aya Nikopol said:


> text.


No, of course intelligence doesn't automatically equal good looks (or vice versa), but intelligence and attractiveness are also not mutually exclusive. 

What you personally feel attracted to is your thing and totally okay, but just imagine someone would replace the word "pretty" in your sentences with "ugly", "overweight", "black" or "gay". Maybe that makes it a bit clearer why it's a slippery slope? It's not much better than fat- or slut-shaming in my opinion...

There's also this underlying assumption that attractive people are somewhat arrogant and/or shallow, when in fact, stereotyping them as such (and as not necessarily very bright on top of that) is the epitome of inverted snobbery, and therefore shallow and reductionist in its own right.

What one personally feels attracted to is an entirely different matter. There are many traits (both physical and character-related) I find unattractive, and I wouldn't want these people as a partner. Entirely subjective.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is: If you'd just written "I don't feel attracted to stereotypically handsome people", no one would have reacted I guess. But you didn't


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## Aya the Abysswalker (Mar 23, 2012)

@Falling Slowly

I'm attracted to handsome people as much as the next person but usually that attraction ends when they open their mouths.

That's my experience with it. I don't know about yours but if you had a better one amazing.


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## Captain SHeep (Dec 15, 2013)

Its actually something ive been contemplating recently. 

On one hand, contrary to what ive scene some say, physically attractive people are superior. Thats kinda the point. Its an odd thing to think about, but the next time you see someone you find insanely attractive, ask yourself this, "Does this person have good genes?" The reason we find certain people physically attractive and others not is because its a primal way of figuring out if a person has good genetic code to produce nice offspring. 

So that's the rational thinking behind it, but the question isint about that. First I need to explain something that I HATE. Its not that hot girls only go for assholes, its that only "assholes" (And in truth they probably aren't a bad person) go for hot girls. The "nice guys"- Actually wait a second, let me talk about that for a second. Think of a love potion story. Any one will work but personally im going to use the Twilight Zone version. In it, the following events happen,

1. boy loves girl 
2. girl ignores boy 
3. boy buys love potion 
4. girl falls in love 
5. boy is satisfied at first but then feels smothered
6. boy wants out
7. some other stuff happens that isint really important to my point
8. end

So how does this apply? Simple, if you are a physically attractive woman (im sure this happens for men to but probably not nearly as often) almost every single guy is this, except you didn't even ask for it. Every single boy is ready to throw themselves at your heals for attention. At first its nice, but quickly it gets unsatisfying. Finally though, the girl find a guy who is confidant enough to treat her like (and this is the key) *A NORMAL PERSON.* How revolutionary. Guys complain that hot girls don't see them for who they are, but hot girls get it EVEN MORE. Every guy sees you as nothing more than a face, boobs, butt, and hints of personality that make them jump to false conclusions. Eventually, the girl BECOMES what all the guys are seeing unless they recognize it. Hot girls aren't being cold towards you, they are treating you like a normal person. 

So far ive only really covered physical, but there is a personality side to all this. Its harder to talk about since while there is such a thing as a genetically generically attractive person (and even that can be a crapshoot), personal preferences for personality are way, WAY more diverse and complicated. While MBTI says that certain types go together (And im required to say this, DATING BASED ON TYPE IS A BAD IDEA!), there are a lot in each type which don't follow the pattern. For instance, as an INTJ I should be hot for ENTPs, but I don't feel anything special towards them. ENTJs however, god damn they are hawt, although that might just be because I am super jealous of them. (God damn it, why cant I have my brilliant abstract system-focused mind and eat it to?) The thing is, their body might be effecting you more than you think. I would say to try the transplant this person into the body of the ugliest person you have ever seen and see if you still like them test, but everyone always says yes to that. No, instead think about a person who's personality you like even more, possibly for similar reasons although not neciceraly. If you couldn't think of anyone, that's kinda sad, but most of you probably thought of your best friend or someone close to you. Most people get what distorted personality traits they can get from a handful of conversations (or even worse, social media) and rationalize their love with that, but that is unhealthy. I recommend acting towards the person as you would any other person you know that much about for a few weeks and see what happens. 

So to finally answer the threads question, yes attractive women are hard to get. Hard, not impossible. (Also another thing, you do not "get" women. If you really think that way then you also "get" friends and "get" aquatences. *sigh* western culture, why do you disappoint me so?) How then? Simple, it is the way that you overcome almost every problem (or, at least I do), a motto of mine.

Recognize and move forward.


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## Penguin (Sep 25, 2012)

FallingSlowly said:


> Wow - nice, dat catty/bitchy behaviour between women. Undoubtedly, all blondes are dumb, too?
> 
> On top of that, is "pretty" not _pretty_ relative anyway - too relative to generalise in such a manner?


Iron and wine?


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## Penguin (Sep 25, 2012)

NK said:


> Hey.
> 
> 
> well for the record, not that I'm intelligent or anything. But this pretty girl has lumped penguin in the "means well. But young with entitled attitudes , mismanaged expectations" I do not feel sorry for him any more than I would any other guy. This thread in itself screams entitlement. Pretty girl says gross



I kind of don't disagree with you at all. I certainly don't feel sorry for myself.


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## FallingSlowly (Jul 1, 2013)

@_Aya Nikopol_
Yes, my experience is very different. That doesn't necessarily make it better though, it just makes it mine 

I know beautiful people who are very intelligent, and people I don't find beautiful/attractive who are extremely dumb. Wouldn't make me say beautiful people are intelligent and ugly people are dumb as a generalisation though. The reverse also doesn't hold true for me.

On top of that, we have the whole problem of "what is beautiful/what is intelligent" again, because it means different things to different people: You might say you know this ugly person who is very intelligent, but I might actually think they're attractive and/or stupid 

You just need to look around these forums. Some people seem to think they're intelligent just because they're N, or because they supposedly have an IQ of 145 and therefore assume they are the bees knees. I personally don't find that intelligent at all - I find it rather dumb and obnoxious.
Judging by some of the photos, there's also a fair amount of attractive, intelligent and articulate people on here. 

It's not all that black and white I guess...


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## Penguin (Sep 25, 2012)

you can argue that beauty is subjective however it isn't as subjective as some people would like it to be...


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## FallingSlowly (Jul 1, 2013)

Penguin said:


> Iron and wine?


Naked as we came? :tongue:


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## FallingSlowly (Jul 1, 2013)

Penguin said:


> you can argue that beauty is subjective however it isn't as subjective as some people would like it to be...


No, it's certainly not entirely subjective if you look at culture and society as a whole (otherwise we wouldn't have aesthetics), but it has an individual/subjective element.

I guess the ones who say beautiful people can also be intelligent won't have a problem with that insight though


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## William I am (May 20, 2011)

Penguin said:


> My point is, I have found that usually women who have a lot to offer both physically and personality wise intimidate most guys except d bags, so me being a decent (not great but not a total jerk) guy can approach almost anyone who I think is probably "to good" for me. Is my theory true? Or am I just getting really lucky?


Nope. You're right. Approach anyone and everyone. The only problem is that it seems like 70-90% of the attractive population tends to have a long-term boyfriend and be serial monogamists (hopping quickly from one permanent relationship to another).


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## Children Of The Bad Revolution (Oct 8, 2013)

I've known, seen and come into contact plenty of pretty girls who are intelligent. Alas, I'm a woman so my idea of beauty has probably more allowance than many guys and is defined differently.

I just want to add my last 2 cents to this thread, but I'd still be interested in reading your replies. I hope some people will read this, but if you're not interested then, have a nice day..

I think some men are getting more and more entitled to expect a Maxim or Sports Illustrated model for a girlfriend. I'm sorry, but [you know] most women do not look like this. I know on this forum there is a theme of saying there's nothing wrong with preferences, there's not. There's nothing wrong with me preferring dark chocolate over milk chocolate but I would still eat milk chocolate and would assess both of their yummyness qualities before I'd choose what I wanted to eat (okay, crap analogy but you get what I'm saying, I wouldn't discriminate based on chocolately looks or sizes lol) There's preferences and there's expectations and unrealism.

I don't get this mentality. What makes men think they deserve a model girlfriend and then turn around to women and say it's unrealistic that they expect _them _to look like Channing Tatum? It's so often in society I see this. I'm not trying to stir up an argument here, I'm genuinely asking why this happens. I'm interested as to why women are made to feel bad for not looking like they should be in the Top 50 Maxim Sexiest Women list but men are not judged for not looking like a fantasy.

Beauty is subjective. How many times have you said that so and so, man or woman, is sexy/hot and someone else has said 'What? No way.' I would also like to believe, as _cliche _as this saying is, that at least _some _beauty is on the inside and I would like to believe that people appreciate that and see it. It's alright to have fantasies about fucking Megan Fox or Channing Tatum. It's not alright to expect a normal person to look like these two. If one doesn't look like either of these people, it doesn't make them ugly and it doesn't make them not extremely attractive to at least someone or in their own right. It doesn't make intelligent or average people ugly, either. Of course, apparently most women are ugly compared to Fox but that's hardly a fair assessment [as she's had enhancements most of us couldn't afford].

I'm genuinely not trying to PC or anything here, I just want people to know what I'm trying to say but I'm not great with explaining myself. As an average, ugly (I've been told this) woman this thread does cut deep for me. It's hard to talk about beauty and attractive women for me but I absolutely appreciate them, admire them like everyone else does but please, don't put it on a pedestal because they're human like the rest of us. (Check out uglygirlproblems on Tumblr and you'll understand more on what people think on the subject. It's interesting what's posted there.)

Why should attractive/beautiful/sexy woman be treated differently to the rest of us? Looks don't matter that much that it changes your worth or should change the amount of respect you get, IMHO. Beauty fades; it's fleeting. I'd rather be ugly on the outside than ugly on the inside. People say that but it's true (for me). 

All I'm trying to say is try to look past immediate aesthetics and appreciate something deeper, you might find something great. If you want. Or not. I'm not your Mum. lol

Of course don't give up your preference but I think some people need to broaden their idea of 'acceptable' beauty and 'unattainable' beauty.

tl;dr :crazy:


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## William I am (May 20, 2011)

I find the majority of women my age attractive (college woo!), so long as they aren't above average weight - and by this I mean so long as they're below around a BMI of 25 or bigger than size 8-10.
Be an appealing weight and keep yourself clean and groomed, and odds are good I'm interested. 

Sexual attraction is necessary for sexual people to want to pursue a relationship. Thinking that people should be ignoring this critical component is appalling. But then again, so is the wildly unrealistic expectations some men have of women. I don't know what percentage. Maybe a lot.


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## Penguin (Sep 25, 2012)

isingthebodyelectric said:


> tl;dr :crazy:



I appreciate your opinion and, to a point, agree with it. I've matured a lot in this area even in the last few weeks....However for me sexual attraction is so important. I can be friends with an ugly girl or a fat girl or whatever, that doesn't matter one bit as far as my respect and admiration for a person goes, but sexual attraction is NECESSARY for me, in a big way, to be romantically attracted to someone. It is just...sexually, but then also it's so useful to have from a social and practical standpoint. For instance if I show up at a party with a really pretty girl by my side vs a 250 pounder people judge ME differently. That's a fact of life. I doesn't matter that much at all once you've achieved a certain level of success, but I have not. 

Anyway, maybe it's shallow, maybe its genetics and I'm good looking therefore feel that I need a good looking person, maybe I'm the only person being totally honest with himself. I don't know....I've gotten a lot of hate for my comments. I certainly don't put the beauty itself on a pedestal, its like....a prerequisite to my attraction you have to have it but just because you do doesn't mean I will be attracted to you.


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## Children Of The Bad Revolution (Oct 8, 2013)

William I am said:


> Sexual attraction is necessary for sexual people to want to pursue a relationship. Thinking that people should be ignoring this critical component is appalling. But then again, so is the wildly unrealistic expectations some men have of women. I don't know what percentage. Maybe a lot.


Yet, so many women are expected to overlook this and many women are with unattractive men. What's that about?


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## Penguin (Sep 25, 2012)

isingthebodyelectric said:


> Yet, so many women are expected to overlook this and many women are with unattractive men. What's that about?


Women care about different things, I don't EXPECT any woman to overlook my appearance. Its why I don't own a single pair of cargo shorts/pants....even though they are comfortable as fuck and I love all the pockets.


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## Children Of The Bad Revolution (Oct 8, 2013)

Penguin said:


> Women care about different things, I don't EXPECT any woman to overlook my appearance. Its why I don't own a single pair of cargo shorts/pants....even though they are comfortable as fuck and I love all the pockets.


If that's what you prefer to do, then that's your business. I just personally wouldn't change myself or my appearance so people 'accept'/be more likely to fuck me but that's you and that's me.


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## William I am (May 20, 2011)

isingthebodyelectric said:


> Yet, so many women are expected to overlook this and many women are with unattractive men. What's that about?


Can you expand on that? I've never heard that women are expected to do that - except that it's a common belief that women do that.


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## Bahburah (Jul 25, 2013)

Not if you act like your better than them and ignore them.


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## monemi (Jun 24, 2013)

William I am said:


> Can you expand on that? I've never heard that women are expected to do that - except that it's a common belief that women do that.


If you aren't interested in a man because of his looks, he's liable to call you a shallow bitch and embarrass you publicly. You aren't 'feely' or motherly enough. You failed to live up to his expectations of feminine. That makes you a cold bitch.


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## LadyO.W.BernieBro (Sep 4, 2010)

monemi said:


> If you aren't interested in a man because of his looks, he's liable to call you a shallow bitch and embarrass you publicly. You aren't 'feely' or motherly enough. You failed to live up to his expectations of feminine. That makes you a cold bitch.


Fortunately haven't had it happen with anyone l was involved with but what l find awkward is being expected to comment on the appearance of random men or celebrities.

lt made me nervous when l was young with no experience, now l'll just say something to the effect of ''l don't know him'' and brush off the weird stare


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## hubcap (Mar 25, 2014)

I don't believe that _available_ attractive women are any more difficult to get a date with than any other classification of available women. I have dated a number of absolutely gorgeous women and didn't find them to be any different than other women.........other than their looks. I think the main thing is don't objectify them, treat them like you would any other woman. 

There is the occasional gorgeous woman who is all caught up in herself who may not date an average guy, but these women usually get over themselves after a while. I have only noticed this phenomenon in younger women. Once they hit their mid-twenties they seem to be no different than any other woman as far as approachability.


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## Children Of The Bad Revolution (Oct 8, 2013)

hubcap said:


> I don't believe that _available_ attractive women are any more difficult to get a date with than any other classification of available women. I have dated a number of absolutely gorgeous women and didn't find them to be any different than other women.........other than their looks. I think the main thing is don't objectify them, treat them like you would any other woman.
> 
> There is the occasional gorgeous woman who is all caught up in herself who may not date an average guy, but these women usually get over themselves after a while. I have only noticed this phenomenon in younger women. Once they hit their mid-twenties they seem to be no different than any other woman as far as approachability.


Thank you so much for a great, thoughtful post. So refreshing to see.


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## Persephone (Nov 14, 2009)

Torai said:


> Honestly, I'm kind of sick of the objectification people have towards others who are physically attractive.
> 
> Part of stopping objectification is to actually talk to attractive people. Yeah, looks can be intimidating, but we are all people first and foremost.
> 
> ...


True, true. I wouldn't say I look like a model but I have a personality and a face and a sense of style that puts me in the upper echelon of attractiveness for females. 

In high school, however, I dresses in baggy clothes- basically like a guy. That didn't change until about a year ago. I was also shy and had low self esteem. However my core personality didn't change. I was still smart, talented, witty and kind. Before I gave my wardrobe a makeover and started dressing like a female, I had nearly no male attention. The few who wooed me either: couldn't get anyone "better" or they got to know me so well they fell in love with my personality. The effect is that the people who wooed me generally wanted me for a girlfriend. In fact they told me it took them a few months to two years to even CONSIDER me as a potential mate. That was how pathetic I was.

Then I decided to dress in a more feminine and stylish manner (I have an extremely good eye for style). Now many females compliment my looks, and suddenly EVERY male in my social circle expressed interest in me! My close social circle is nearly all male so this is quite significant. Even men I didn't know very well started making overtures towards me. Frankly I don't mind that very much, since I don't care anyway. But it gets extremely annoying that one friend is asking you out, your ex who's still your friend is hitting on you (my "makeover" happened after we broke up), and another is making sexual jokes around you. All. The. Time. Makes me think I sorely need new friends. Honestly sometimes I feel like I'm on the meat market. Because whereas before I could be sure the few men who approached me wanted a serious relationship with me because they fell in love with ME, not my looks. But now I can't tell if they just want to have sex with me. I literally feel like a merchandise sometimes by the way some of them are behaving.


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## FallingSlowly (Jul 1, 2013)

isingthebodyelectric said:


> text


You bring up a lot of valid points I agree with, but I also think that reality is much more varied.

The thoughts I have about your post:

a) People who themselves don't live by the standards they expect from/try to impose others are entitled, deluded twats. Plain and simple. If a potential partner expected me to look like a supermodel and work out, wear the best clothes and be impeccably groomed, but he himself is a slob with bad teeth and body odour - tough luck. He obviously has a perspective problem, and I won't lose any sleep over it. I certainly won't feel bad in any way, it's really his problem, not mine. These are the cases that don't even require discussion I guess.

b) Preferring good-looking partners is already trickier. There are so many angles to this that it's really impossible to generalise. Attraction is very hard to rationalise. Just because some people (think they) can, it shouldn't make them judgmental of those who can't or won't. Some people act on first impressions in the looks-department, others don't. It doesn't make the former ones bad people - it just says something about the way sexual attraction works for them. If that includes a certain look/attractiveness-level, there's not much you can do about it, since it's mostly a subconscious process.

If it's not just a preference, but borders on a fetish, or obsessively seeking out particular traits ("*only* a certain boob-size, *only* blondes, *only* xyz"), it's of course a different matter (I think most people really just have preferences they are able to deviate from to an extent). But even so: It's hard to override this from a psychological point of view. You'd really need to feel it holds you back too much and then actively want to change it.

Everyone has their own limits. I admit very openly that certain (also physical) traits would rule out someone as a potential partner for me at first sight/talk. I cannot fake attraction, or talk myself into waiting it out. That doesn't mean though that everyone I feel physically attracted to is considered a potential mate, nor does it mean that someone needs to be insanely attractive to be considered one. However, I need to feel physically attracted (that's not the same as requiring someone to be stereotypically attractive) to even consider a relationship. If I'm not, "phase two" doesn't even start. And it works like that for a lot of people. Not everyone is demi- or sapiosexual.

c) I agree on "acceptable vs. unattainable beauty". Or let's say "unrealistic for most", because it's obviously not unattainable if some people look like that. However, I also think that if you're constantly surrounded by a certain "ideal" via media etc, it will almost condition some people to believe this is "normal standard". You need to have a certain maturity level (has nothing to do with age) to understand that it isn't, but some people just don't question things, and never will. I'll stop here, because it will make me sound bitchy if I don't 

d) Everyone's got their problems, that includes attractive people: Objectification, people assuming they're shallow, less intelligent (proven on this very forum), never get anything on real merit, but just on their looks, what have you.
It's not rocket science: Just treat everyone like a normal human being. That doesn't mean you _need_ to give everyone a chance as a potential partner - just that you should treat them with respect even if you don't.

As for the OP: Some attractive women are hard to get, but so are some more average looking ones. Most attractive women just want to be treated like a normal human being, and not like some exotic thing. And I used the word "thing" on purpose here.

Sorry for the wall of text


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## Senah (Oct 17, 2017)

intjonn said:


> And EXTREMELY attractive women (thread topic) ,I've found, once I've dated them it's harder for me to get _AWAY _from them. this maybe because most EXTREMELY attractive women are not used to men at all wanting to get rid of them - just the opposite - they're used to being treated as the 'trophy' girl friend; And most men have never dated or been with EXTREMELY attractive women so most men place a supreme value on such women even if only in fantasy.


That's an interesting point.


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## Animal (May 29, 2012)

shinedowness said:


> Sorry not sorry, but this sounds too much like what Sansa Stark from the Game of Thrones show would say rather than Arya Stark who, too, was from Game of Thrones.
> 
> https://thoughtcatalog.com/maria-loren/2014/04/5-reasons-people-dont-date-anymore/


You have to think deeper.

Arya confesses to Sansa that she was jealous of her superior beauty. That Arya herself could never be beautiful as her sister, so she had to become something else: a vicious killer.
She is highly independent (as am I) - but deep deep down, she was jealous that her sister could be so beloved. In the latest episodes, she even said if she wanted to know what it's like to be beautiful, she could just steal her sister's face. In the earliest episodes, she cringed with jealousy when Sansa got male attention.

Those are pretty intense things to say and do, for someone who doesn't give a fuck at all about love. She is wrestling with something instinctual in herself.

It may even be fair to say that, by the end of the series, Sansa is more concerned with using men to get power, whereas Arya is still wrestling with the problem of being 'unfeminine.'

I am a highly independent woman. But I'm honest about my humanity. Men also have a giggling boy inside, all excited to take a girl on a date. There is nothing "un-tough" or weak about this. It's simply honest. Doesn't mean that we will all choose to be in relationships, since this is not the whole of our being.


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## Sygma (Dec 19, 2014)

Nah. Did date some very stunning women, the only one it really didn't get past the initial stage was a really rich person. There's nothing you can do about that if upbringing and social status are actually important for her.

Otherwise they're humans, like everyone else. Be yourself - genuine, make them feel good things which they ll associate yourself to, and go forth


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## SummerHaze (May 18, 2016)

no if you are not a jerk


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## nicoloco90 (May 3, 2010)

No, they're just too hard to keep and protect. Too much risk, not interested.


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

I think sometimes above attractive women end up seeking unapproachable to some men 

That does not mean they are though 

I think often they can get approached by idiots. What I mean by this is often times the men who have no shame have no second guessing themselves or environment awareness due to low intellect. 

So I think sometimes some guys with more depth or intellect can get thrown off and intimidated when for example they see a confident but I stress meathead approach an attractive woman, or even the weirdos, and get intimidated by the attention the woman garners, and end up assuming the woman would be uninterested.


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## jtour (Oct 26, 2017)

This is still going on?

A good woman is not always the "extremely attractive" one.

You probe the women, regardless of their appearance, and determine if they have something _they_ can bring to you. I wouldn't do most of the "extremely attractive" ones with someone else's dick. Sounds like a goddamned major fucking hassle, like having an exotic African parrot or a pet cheetah or something.

The wisdom of song: Billy Preston, "Nothing from Nothing," Jimmy Soul, "If You Want to be Happy," Smokey Robinson/The Contours, "First I Look at the Purse."

You know, it's just not anything to think about women like "grade A prime" and lesser cuts -- you have to fight a bunch of dickless scrotes with roidrage, it's just not worth it.

Have some self-respect -- find a good one and go to town on her as soon as you trick her into thinking you're a swell fellow.

It's the definition of womanly behavior in a man to be trying to please, to cajole, to wheedle. That's for other people.


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