# How do SPs perceive NTs?



## Sevchenko

lightened said:


> That sounds like a nightmare. What attracted you to such a thing?


It was an accident I assure you. I like her for other reasons, but it does get aggravating.


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## lightened

SP's irritate me. They should adopt a more rational approach to life. A more skeptical approach to life. The SP's that I know, are over-idealizing children. The moment you question any level of approach to their lives, it breaks down their confidence and inner sense of being. Which is a little comical to me. I just have a very difficult time comprehending how or why anyone wouldn't want to question anything they do, the information they receive, on a daily basis.


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## Inguz

lightened said:


> SP's irritate me. They should adopt a more rational approach to life. A more skeptical approach to life. The SP's that I know, are over-idealizing children. The moment you question any level of approach to their lives, it breaks down their confidence and inner sense of being. Which is a little comical to me. I just have a very difficult time comprehending how or why anyone wouldn't want to question anything they do, the information they receive, on a daily basis.


 And this is what irritates me as an SP, your statement is very judgmental and based on subjective "facts". And truth is, I'm so skeptical to skepticism that I have to ask, why should I question my gut feeling? My gut feeling tells me that I have a free will, a mind that can be free from the brain, and a soul and more. Still to this day I've seen nothing in science that successfully can exclude them, and knowing that I'll take a practical approach, if it makes my life better I will continue with it.

I personally question everything, including what I already know, and if you think that doesn't make me skeptical then I don't know what would. But I ask you, would you be willing to question logic, rationality and structure? I am, and it leads me to take a self-polarizing abstract-practical approach to life filled with paradoxes and dualities. The only way to make sense of it all is to perceive everything as One, one Truth that polarizes the same way light does through a prism. Knowing that I live in the shadow of titans, I will appreciate the beauty of the chime and shimmer and remember that my experience of it is what will matter, not how I define the shadows.

When I'm watching the lotus flowers unfold I will remember that the only thing that matters to me is my experience. I've questioned the lotus flowers, but it lead me back to where I was to begin with. It's such a waste to live in doubt and anxiety when you don't have to. I'm just happy to have had the privileged of living.


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## lightened

@Inguz

It's my opinion. Of course it's going to be subjective and judgmental. It's an opinion. Never once did I state I was factual.
You're uppity about an opinion - for what exactly?


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## Inguz

lightened said:


> @_Inguz_
> 
> It's my opinion. Of course it's going to be subjective and judgmental. It's an opinion. Never once did I state I was factual.
> You're uppity about an opinion - for what exactly?


 I couldn't care less about your opinion in it self, it's the way that it's presented: _"They should adopt a more rational approach to life."_
They - Should. Who decides that? You? I don't have to anything that you say that I should, so obviously your statement is *objectively* *false*. Your having an opinion doesn't make a statement true, unless you talk about something that can be *objectively true*, such as your opinion about something.

There is *Objectivity* and there is *Subjectivity*, so posting a *subjective opinion* in the form of an *objective statement* is just wrong on so many levels. If you want to make a statement about your *subjective opinion*, provide context!

Example of how your* subjective opinion* written as a *subjective opinion* could look: "*I think* that they should adopt a more rational approach to life."

If you had wrote it like that I wouldn't even bother to reply, I would simply acknowledge your opinion and then dismiss it as nonsense. Note: "I would", when I state that I'm speaking about my subjective opinion it becomes objective fact by it self - it's my subjective opinion after all. What you tried to do is to state *your opinion* as an *objective fact*, which it's not, it's *subjective fact* that becomes an* objective fact*: that you have a certain *subjective opinion*.

I find comical value in lecturing NT's in logic from time to time, so I assume that our relationship is mutual.


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## lightened

@Inguz

gotcha. so how do you feel about that? what's going on? why do you feel this emotionally injected?
im here to help the best way that i know how.

it's rather unbecoming of you to bother delving into the semantics of an empirical post.


if i go back and edit my natural sentimets to accommodate you, will you feel better?


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## lightened

i think it's a little humorous that you can take the words of a mere stranger, who's obvious subjective opinion is entirely based on experience, as an overall application to your character. i don't have nor see the problem here. do you?

you seem to be the only one uneasy about what i have said. does that inherently make it my problem?
this sounds like you're not okay with what i have said. my opinion is not the law. 
why so serious?

it's not a reflection towards you, so why are you this involved? i can only presume you to be emotionally attached to what i have said due to possible unresolved feelings. that has absolutely no connection to me.


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## Inguz

lightened said:


> @_Inguz_
> 
> gotcha. so how do you feel about that? what's going on? why do you feel this emotionally injected?
> im here to help the best way that i know how.
> 
> it's rather unbecoming of you to bother delving into the semantics of an empirical post.
> 
> 
> if i go back and edit my natural sentimets to accommodate you, will you feel better?


I don't understand your question, to me emotion is my core. I acknowledge that this is not true for everyone, but for me it is, so to me your question is like asking "Why do you have feelings?" - I don't know, I guess I am the way God created me.

Empiricism is not the same as objective truth.

Can't say I would, it's in the past now.


lightened said:


> i think it's a little humorous that you can take the words of a mere stranger, who's obvious subjective opinion is entirely based on experience, as an overall application to your character. i don't have nor see the problem here. do you?
> 
> you seem to be the only one uneasy about what i have said. does that inherently make it my problem?
> this sounds like you're not okay with what i have said. my opinion is not the law.
> why so serious?
> 
> it's not a reflection towards you, so why are you this involved? i can only presume you to be emotionally attached to what i have said due to possible unresolved feelings. that has absolutely no connection to me.


It's extremely wrong since two individuals never are the same (not even identical twins). If I saw an INTJ say that he likes a golden shower, can I then apply that to you as well? It's empirical. I would say no, because I cannot possible know what you as an individual has as preferences. This could also be defined as prejudice.

If you say something and get a response, I would indeed consider that to be your problem.

It does have connection to you, because you were practicing what I feel is annoying. I believe that I'm responsible for my emotions, and you are responsible for your judgement. If I were to say that INTJs loves a golden shower, then I would have to take responsibility for saying that, even if it's true in my empirical experience. And if I make a remark about skin color I have to take responsibility for that as well.


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## lightened

@Inguz



> It's extremely wrong since two individuals never are the same


I am completely aware of that. You're really reading into my opinion way too severely. Extremely wrong?
Cool. I didn't kill anyone. You don't know me, I don't know you. This is true. I think you shouldn't take what everyone has to say so literally, and as a reflection on who you are as an individual. Your reaction was comically refreshing.

You find what I did annoying? Not my problem. You are in control of how you want to react. That's dependent on you.

If I were to engage in that hypothetical situation about INTJ's loving golden showers, that doesn't ring true for me. Do you see me getting uppity about it? That's my point, why are you taking this so literally. I did not attack you. If you "feel" that I have.. it's not my problem. I will not apologize for speaking my mind. I don't adjust myself to accommodate or make another person feel at ease. If you are not at ease with what I say or around me, tough, you have the viable option of exiting.

I am genuinely curious to understand what you possibly thought you would be willing to do for you..?


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## Inguz

@_lightened_ 
If you can't stand me expressing my feeling of your statement being judgmental and nonsensical, then that's not my problem, according to you. Read my first reply to you, then read your first response, and after that this quote below:
"It's my feeling. Of course it's going to be emotional and with undertones. It's a feeling. Never once did I state I was someone else emotion.
You're uppity about a feeling - for what exactly?"


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## lightened

Inguz said:


> @lightened
> If you can't stand me expressing my feeling of your statement being judgmental, then that's not my problem, according to you. Read my first reply to you, then read your first response, and after that this quote below:
> "It's my feeling. Of course it's going to be emotional and with undertones. It's a feeling. Never once did I state I was someone else emotion.
> You're uppity about a feeling - for what exactly?"


 What do you need to express your feeling for, if there is no solution to be had? I'm aware my statement was judgmental.


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## Inguz

lightened said:


> What do you need to express your feeling for, if there is no solution to be had? I'm aware my statement was judgmental.


 I'll ask you the same thing, why did you need to express your opinion when you knew that it was judgmental?


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## Kito

I can only agree with what's already been said, NTs kind of mess up the enjoyment of everyday life by questioning everything that comes up, and trying to think of something new to introduce to it. It's a little... unnerving. It's almost like they don't want you to be happy with the world you live in.


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## MissFixit

can i answer this thread without having read the whole thing? great.

introverted NTs = really intelligent but can be boring and have no social skills. My engineering managers are NTs. (but I do love them)

Extroverted NTs = ENTJs are the super arrogant ones, don't know about ENTPs.

I like the introverted ones. If they get too lost in the boring details I can always go make a sandwich and come back. 

The extroverts ...it depends. :tongue:


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## Chipps

Kitzara said:


> I can only agree with what's already been said, NTs kind of mess up the enjoyment of everyday life by questioning everything that comes up, and trying to think of something new to introduce to it. It's a little... unnerving. It's almost like they don't want you to be happy with the world you live in.


Not questioning things is unnerving to me. I'd feel like a drone if I just did things to do them.


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## asewland

Kitzara said:


> I can only agree with what's already been said, NTs kind of mess up the enjoyment of everyday life by questioning everything that comes up, and trying to think of something new to introduce to it. It's a little... unnerving. It's almost like they don't want you to be happy with the world you live in.


 It's in our system. I can't imagine going through the day without questioning at least ONE thing. (Just the thought scares me :shocked: )


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## Dark Romantic

Kitzara said:


> It's almost like they don't want you to be happy with the world you live in.


Looks like we've been found out! Back to the drawing board, guys...


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## Agent Blackout

Interesting... *subscribes to thread*


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## RoughEstimate

All hail the thinkers.
I'm not going to go super saiyan feeler on everyone, just wanted to express my white hot passionate love for anyone who can anchor me to reality for more than fifteen minutes.
Don't get me wrong, I love my permanent residence in the clouds, but it's nice to come down once in a while and _want_ to have a cup of tea with someone who wants to talk about something other than their latest heartache or town gossip. Hit me with photons, with C.S Lewis, with the blue prints for a self-sustaining society. 
Thinkers, also, don't tilt their heads when I'm past the point of layman's terms.
I love you guys and the specific mechanics of that love are very exclusive to you. 
<3


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## Cashmere

I'm fine with them as long as they accept me for who and what I am. Don't try to argue if I like the world the way it is, I just do and it's not going to change. I have found a few of them to look down on other types not thinking they could learn a thing from sensors or feelers when in reality, they could learn a lot. I've learned a lot from my NT friends, and enjoy their company as long as they don't get too argumentative or opinionated. I'm fine with listening to long-winded theories (preferably while getting something else done such as work or art), but I won't join in on the conversation just because I find it boring and draining....but I can't change the way I feel, so just as long as no one goes around trying to change me or push me around because they don't get that I think differently, I'm fine with NT's.


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