# Fe Songs vs Fi Songs



## pivot_turn (Dec 10, 2014)

I get really confused by the way of Fe vs Fi in those "break up songs" where someone is lamenting about how badly it went in the relationship. In general I tend to think a bit more Fi, but there must be Fe too and some of you actually posted a couple of that kind of songs so I have to take a closer look at those to find the difference. 

Anyway a song...




I actually listened to this song now, thinking that I might find an Fe song, but then thinking about the lyrics properly I think it's Fi-Te. Pretty much extroverted/outer thinking/facts and introverted/inside feeling. Basically: all these facts can be proven (and some can not) but my feelings are mine and private and come from me and those are facts too because I know so. 

I think I posted Burn as a Fe song in the other thread as well. So here it is again.




It's very "we" and group, even though it's also a bit against a "they". 

I was going to find an Fe song and Fi song from the same artist, but now I think a lot of Katie Melua's songs are more Fi (though I didn't go into deeper analysis about many) and many of Ellie Goulding's I'm a bit unsure about, though she seems to have a bunch of other songs too that are a bit like Burn. Fi maybe Explosions for example.


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## Dangerose (Sep 30, 2014)

I think maybe a lot of songs might end up _looking_ like Fi just due to song format which is oriented toward more pure emotion? Like, the singer has to do a lot more explaining to end up with a Fe song. So Fe songwriters might end up looking Fi even if they aren't. (though...whenever I try to write music it turns out crazy-Fe, so I don't know...)
Something about F.U.N. makes me really think Fe:





I put this as an example of a Fe song on the Taylor Swift thread; why not put it here too?





I know people are typing Adele as ISFP usually but I think her songs seem really Fe to me as well, especially this one?:


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## Psychopomp (Oct 3, 2012)

Oswin said:


> I think maybe a lot of songs might end up _looking_ like Fi just due to song format which is oriented toward more pure emotion? Like, the singer has to do a lot more explaining to end up with a Fe song. So Fe songwriters might end up looking Fi even if they aren't. (though...whenever I try to write music it turns out crazy-Fe, so I don't know...)
> Something about F.U.N. makes me really think Fe:
> 
> 
> ...



Swift is probably an Fe-dom. Adele is definitely not an Fi-dom - and is clearly a stronger Je than Ji.. but I guess she could be an ISTJ and thus an Fi..........

fun. is probably an Fi and I personally perceive Fi from that song: contradictions and nuance without conclusions... an ever-deepening spiral. Also, some indication of low order Te in the lines about dying in war. He is just getting caught in the headlights of objective critical concerns and then diving through the contradictory nuances that emanate from it. He is actually probably an ENFP. Not sure, though.


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## Greyhart (Oct 13, 2014)

Majorly disappointed nobody brought up Sara yet.

Fe:

* *





Fe








Fe?..




Just going to ruffle through recent mixes because I can't remember anything off the top of my head.
Fe?


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## Vox (Mar 16, 2012)

Ninjaws said:


> Does anyone know some good Te or Ti songs to contrast all the sappy songs?


I do! It's funny because the artist of the songs below is so drastically different from the rest of the artists in my library (I do like emotional/sad songs), but they're one of the only artists from whom I actually like more than just a small minority of their songs (I have a _lot _of artists represented in my library but only a handful that are represented by more than, like, three songs).

Some of my favourites:

* *





















I admit I partially only like this one because of all the verbiage :laughing:







The lyrics are definitely what I love most, but the sound also really appeals to me (I'm not actually that into punk rock, so it's kinda strange...). Intelligent and poetic, and each song forms a distinct narrative that's often surreal in some way. It's just...I don't know, it's so energetic and chaotic but it's a kind of...structured chaos? It appeals _so_ much to me as an ENTP in a way that I've never experienced with any other artist, so I'm inclined to attribute Ne and Ti to their songs, but I can see arguments for Ni/Te/Fi.


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## Greyhart (Oct 13, 2014)

This is hard, I ruffle through my songs they all seem Fe.

Fi:

* *




Agree on Some Nights being Fi. 

Anything by Lana del Rey. :| And Linkin Park.






This song was probably written by a FP since it doesn't have single coherent sentence in it... I *love* it.





Green Day probably Fi











Ninjaws said:


> Does anyone know some good Te or Ti songs to contrast all the sappy songs?


Fe thus Ti too.

* *









Actually wait, this is the true high Ti song.


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## Deadly Decorum (Feb 23, 2014)

@emberfly- I always thought Amy Lee was an ISFP. 
@Grey Romantic Thank you for posting Kelly! ESFJ poster girl. Christina Perri is probably an Fe dom too... Ni vs Si I'm not sure of. Not familiar with her.
@shinynotshiny- Bjork is definitely an xNFP. I lean towards Ne dom personally. The entire song is a metaphor of human relationships and how they change, using continental drifts as an allusion to such a concept. Lines like "You know I gave it all, try to match our continents to change a seasonal shift, to form a mutual core" could be interpreted as Fe, but it's all Ne. Changing and shifting perspectives (in this case, human relationships). The continental drifts allude to relationships falling apart, and she focuses on the subtle, nuanced tones (even says so!) of a fading relationship... very difficult to get a grasp of. An Fe love song would be more hammy than that.

I love her, btw. She's lovely, and quite the trip.
@arkigos No idea how anyone could see ISFP for Adele.... the moment I first heard her music I thought Si. you're probably playing devil's advocate but I think ISFJ is a better fit. Fi... no. Not at all.

I think Fun is Fi too. And with Swift... I've played with ISFJ, but I am now rather cemented on Fe dom. She's shy, sure, but that's not inconsistent with ESFJs. I think the problem with her is that Ne borders on undifferentiated... it exists but she holds the ropes on her Ne in favor of Si. Not a strong Fe-Ne looper. She's actually a stereotypical goody goody, pie baking ESFJ that holds on to the images of halos and innocence. I wonder if her Southern upbringing may contribute.
@Greyhart- I've seen IxFJ arguments but.... no pretty sure Sara is an Fe dom from what I've heard. I'd have to watch an interview. Ni-Se and Si-Ne I'm iffy about... but I somehow lean towards ESFJ as a primary, instinctual impression. Take that with a grain of salt.

The Philip Philips song is definitely Fe. Never heard of Vienna Teng, I agree, and from that listen alone and few google searches I could actually see ENFJ. Again, take with a grain of salt. Quickly asserted typing puts me in hot water.

The ESFJ anthem, and exactly the kind of thing I could imagine people mistaking for Fi due to the "Who cares what you think of me?" message:






For the ISFJ contrast:

(Yes, "Try" is more recent, but there's not as much Si in that one. If anyone needs an auditory representation of ISFJ, this is your go-to track):






Fi:






(Footnote: Great contrast to "Someone Like You". Both are break-up songs, but much different in tone. Notice how Adele focuses on the feelings of her ex, whereas Fiona does not, at least not as prominently or apparently as Adele. Adele cannot push the object away... whatsoever. Even after the break-up! Fiona is singing about pushing away from the object quite ardently. "Don't forget the blame" strikes me as a Te sentiment).


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## Pressed Flowers (Oct 8, 2014)

I'm so happy that so many of the songs I thought were Fi because they were self-accepting or w/e actually still count as Fe. Thread success. 

Also I'm glad that @hoopla arrived to straighten us out. If anyone knows about songs and functions...


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## Greyhart (Oct 13, 2014)

alittlebear said:


> I'm so happy that so many of the songs I thought were Fi because they were self-accepting or w/e actually still count as Fe. Thread success.


Fi songs for me = about personal angst. :happy:


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

hoopla said:


> @_shinynotshiny_- Bjork is definitely an xNFP. I lean towards Ne dom personally. The entire song is a metaphor of human relationships and how they change, using continental drifts as an allusion to such a concept. Lines like "You know I gave it all, try to match our continents to change a seasonal shift, to form a mutual core" could be interpreted as Fe, but it's all Ne. Changing and shifting perspectives (in this case, human relationships). The continental drifts allude to relationships falling apart, and she focuses on the subtle, nuanced tones (even says so!) of a fading relationship... very difficult to get a grasp of. An Fe love song would be more hammy than that.
> 
> I love her, btw. She's lovely, and quite the trip.


That's always been my impression, but I see more INFP than ENFP because she comes across as very reserved in her personal life. As for the song, that's exactly what I took out of it but I wanted to incite discussion. You were the only one to bite :laughing:

It's interesting you say Fe would be more hammy. The song already feels very intimate and raw to me, so I'm not sure I'd be able to handle hammy :shocked:

Now, about Adele... I request that you, as one of the Si masters, explain Adele's Si. Is it that she focuses so much on her past feelings and experiences and builds up from there?


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## Greyhart (Oct 13, 2014)

For Adele remember that her songs (as many of other pop artists tbh) are written in co-authorship. I kind of prefer to look at songs separately from artists. I do love how Someone like you were written with Semisonic's lead. This guy. This song, I love it. You know how great it is to sing it when nobody understands that you are singing literally about sex?






Speaking of which, this is a song about sex but is it Fe sex or Fi sex? I vote for Ti&Fe sex.


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

Greyhart said:


> Speaking of which, this is a song about sex but is it Fe sex or Fi sex? I vote for Ti&Fe sex.


Fe, obviously


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## Pressed Flowers (Oct 8, 2014)

Is Beyoncé Fe? 




(Probably not the best song for cognition, but maybe you can get something out of it.)


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

Fi sex is more about anger and angst and men with light bulbs for heads:

(skip the video if you don't like a bit of creepy)






or Mr. Sleeping Beauty:






Y/N?


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## Sygma (Dec 19, 2014)

Decided
To sneak up away
From your stomach
And try your pulse
And captured
What seemed all
Unknowing and candid
But they suspected
It was false

She's playful
The boring would
Warn you be careful
Of her brigade
In order to tame
This relentless marauder
Move away from the parade

And she was walking on the tables
In the glass house
Endearingly bedraggled in the wind
Subtle in her method of seduction
The twenty little tragedies begin

And she would throw
A feather boa in the road
If she thought
That it would set the scene
Unfittingly dipped
Into your companions
Enlighten them to make you seethe

And there's affection to rent
The age of the understatement
Before the attraction ferments
Kiss me properly and pull me apart

Affection to rent
The age of the understatement
Before this attraction ferments
Kiss me properly and pull me apart

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

And my fingers scratch at my hair
Before my mind can get too reckless
The idea of seeing you here
Is enough to make the sweat grow cold

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh



Probably my most favorite Fe song







Probably one of the most intense Fi song


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## Greyhart (Oct 13, 2014)

alittlebear said:


> Is Beyoncé Fe?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I kinda think she is Fe dom which is an unpopular opinion apparently :X but for the song yeah, I'd go with Fe.


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

Greyhart said:


> I kinda think she is Fe dom which is an unpopular opinion apparently :X but for the song yeah, I'd go with Fe.



Why unpopular...?


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## Greyhart (Oct 13, 2014)

shinynotshiny said:


> Why unpopular...?


People seem to globally push for ISFP. I just don't see that.


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## Pressed Flowers (Oct 8, 2014)

Greyhart said:


> People seem to globally push for ISFP. I just don't see that.


??? What even


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## Psychopomp (Oct 3, 2012)

@alittlebear @Greyhart

Beyoncé is an FeSi. I've suddenly decided to write it like that. I've meant to start doing that and now I've done it.


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## pivot_turn (Dec 10, 2014)

Fi I think:


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## ferroequinologist (Jul 27, 2012)

Did I really just flip through 11 pages of music and not find this song? Or did I just miss it? I am no big fan of these people, and can't say I enjoy the song, but the lyrics are practically a definition of Fi:






And then this one from the 80s is pretty much the definition of Fi (at least as I see it as an Fi-Se)






And for something more my speed (and era)






And in closing, with another by the Blues--no need to listen to the whole album, just the first two minutes of the read poem. 






I suppose I could add Sound of Silence and The Boxer by Simon and Garfunkel, but I'll just give the names. (That last one may not be so obvious, but trust me, it's _very_ Fi)


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## Greyhart (Oct 13, 2014)

Entire Linkin Park is a definition of angsty Fi. :tongue: People are trying to find happy ones.


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## CupcakesRDaBestBruv (Aug 6, 2013)

zosio913 said:


> This steers a _bit_ off-topic, but my boyfriend was discussing songs by type groupings with me, and I found it interesting:
> 
> .EPs -- "Let me tell you this story about things that I did and the repercussions thereof" or "Freedom! Fun! Individuality! Woooh!" (he's an ENFP, by the way) E.g: Taylor Swift *(ESTP) *and her breakup songs, and Katy Perry (ESFP) and her go-get-em'/party songs.
> .IJs: "I had a preconceived notion and I was wrong!"
> ...


Correction - ESFJ.


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## CupcakesRDaBestBruv (Aug 6, 2013)

Fe, Fe, Fe and Fe. Both seem ENFJish to me (the first one could have INFJ vibes too)









Fi


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## Deadly Decorum (Feb 23, 2014)

koalaroo said:


> Every song that she does is Fi-based. It's all about her feelings. Her emotions. Her inner pain. Her inner turmoil.


Everyone has their own feelings though. Where do they come from? What sparks them? How are they executed? If the feelings are triggered by and discussed through the lens of external standards, it's not Fi, even if these feelings belong personally to the individual in question. 

You could argue some of the Fe songs posted here are about inner feelings. Alanis Morissette's "You Oughta Know" is about the negative impact a breakup personally had on her. It's not Fi because Alanis makes it her mission to let her ex know exactly how she feels in a bold manner. She's here to remind him of how unfair and cruel he treated her. She also makes many external judgments throughout the song (e.g. "I'm sure she'd make a really excellent mother," "You seem very well. Things look peaceful"). The fact she is singing about her "inner" feelings does not negate the fact that she is extraverting them.

That Dear Mr. President song is very Fe. She's speaking externally. How can the president act so unethically? How can he sleep at night knowing what he does to people? I'm not saying Fi doesn't care about people, but P!nk is focusing specifically on the external value judgments of those around her to make her point. I don't understand how that's Fe.



koalaroo said:


> She's also strong into animal rights, which is usually not something that an ESTP would give a flying flip about. It's typically a Fi-thing.


This is not true at all. Fe and Ti types can (and often do) promote ethical and humanitarian causes. What is their motivation behind these causes? Is the system internally logically? Does this system promote the welfare of individuals? If the focus is primarily on how people are externally affected, it's Fe. Fe will want to reach out and hold hands with the entire world to put these causes into full effect and influence the well being of others and animals! Absolutely. Fi-Te is more likely to find the system wrong internally... it's something they've carefully thought out, and always consider wrong, no exceptions. The objective facts support their hypothesis. This can be tricky to differentiate... an Fe can tout out facts that support their ethical cause, but if the facts support their internalized logical system and their goals to positively influence and affect people, it's Fe-Ti. It's the reasons they support a cause that matters, not the fact that they do. 



koalaroo said:


> The Se is obvious from videos and the very in-the-moment songs. That rules out ESFJ.


Behold, an ENFP:






At 11:49, she explains how she couldn't live without preforming shows because they're one of the most in the moment feelings she can experience. She's still an ENFP because the sensory dynamics are not the point; they're merely a prop to trigger her Ne concepts and visions. Jung actually said that Ne can mirror or allude to sensation, but it's not the physical properties that grip them; rather the sensory serves as a prop, a symbol to activate intuitive ideals... the things that are removed from experience. Experience merely triggers these ideals or motivates them. So is P!nk interested in engaging and manipulating sensory dynamics as they are objectively presented in all of their forms, or are they the ignition for conceptual ideals? Do sensory things assist an abundance of concepts, or are they the crux of engagement?



koalaroo said:


> She appears like an ESTP because she's an Enneagram 8w7.


I believe that the enneagram system is a superfluous addendum of the MBTI system itself (Type 2, for example, is driven by Fe values. I'm not saying it's impossible for a type 2 to be an Fi dom, but highly unlikely). It comes across as a form of confirmation bias; a way to cram individuals into the types you wish they were ("Well, this person may present as an ESFJ but they're really an ENFP because they're 3w4"). Wouldn't it be more likely that P!nk presents as an ESTP because she *is* an ESTP?

This is a derail; I've considered making a thread about P!nk to argue this very proposition. This is not the place to do so. Carry on with providing Fe and Fi songs.


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## koalaroo (Nov 25, 2011)

@_hoopla_ -- Nice conjecture, but none of it comes from a really logical position on your part that I could see. Anyway, nice discussing the issue with you -- she's still an ESFP. Have you considered that the Dear Mr. President song is because the president doesn't conform to HER personal ethical systems?


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## Ninjaws (Jul 10, 2014)

I think this is Fe:


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## Pressed Flowers (Oct 8, 2014)

@CupcakesRDaBestBruv I _love_ the Heroes song. It just makes me so happy and inspired. I don't even really know quite why, it just does. It's also fun to use for book / story connections.


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## Deadly Decorum (Feb 23, 2014)

koalaroo said:


> @_hoopla_ -- Nice conjecture, but none of it comes from a really logical position on your part that I could see. Anyway, nice discussing the issue with you -- she's still an ESFP. Have you considered that the Dear Mr. President song is because the president doesn't conform to HER personal ethical systems?


How is logical to assume someone is an Fi type because they support animal rights? Do all collective conclusions propagated by an individual stem from the same line of reasoning as their comrades? I would consider that a conjecture as well. I care about what led her to activism, not the fact that she engages in it.

Let's examine the lyrics of the song in question:



> What do you feel when you see all the homeless on the street?
> Who do you pray for at night before you go to sleep?
> What do you feel when you look in the mirror?
> Are you proud?





> How do you sleep while the rest of us cry?
> How do you dream when a mother has no chance to say goodbye?
> How do you walk with your head held high?
> Can you even look me in the eye
> And tell me why?





> Dear Mr. President,
> Were you a lonely boy?





> How can you say
> No child is left behind?
> We're not dumb and we're not blind.
> They're all sitting in your cells
> While you pave the road to hell.





> What kind of father would take his own daughter's rights away?
> And what kind of father might hate his own daughter if she were gay?





> Let me tell you 'bout hard work
> Minimum wage with a baby on the way
> Let me tell you 'bout hard work
> Rebuilding your house after the bombs took them away
> ...


There is a lot of Ti-Fe in this song. Her value judgements are externalized. "How can you feel that way when other people feel this way? How can you carry on guilt free when others are affected in this way! How dare you!" She also challenges the objective standard of hard work through her own abstracted logic, and uses this logic to promote the greater good of others. She's gaining her values here through internalized logic and the external impact the president has on other people.

Ever consider that Fe doesn't necessarily agree with everyone if a decision or value causes external, objective harm, or is unsuitable for the external situation in question?

To serve the purpose of the thread, here's an Fe song:






So much focus on external value; how others are feeling, and how to positively influence the external atmosphere. 

People are going to disagree, but it's going to take a lot of persuading to convince me of Fi.


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## FearAndTrembling (Jun 5, 2013)

Pink is using Fi and Se. I can see how she may appear to be an ESFJ. ESFJ women can be totally rude tomboys. Hardass jocks. People associate them with "caregivers", and it throws people off. They can be very aggressive in the environment like a Se dom. But Pink is using Fi. I don't think you can really tell by the music or what causes she supports. But she is pushing hard Se and Fi when she talks and interacts with people.

I think Billy Corgan is an ENFJ btw. Ani DiFranco is too.


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## koalaroo (Nov 25, 2011)

@hoopla -- I don't see how that's necessarily Fe, either. Just don't see it.


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## Ardielley (Aug 4, 2013)

Not too long ago, I stumbled upon a sort of obscure artist who is now one of my favorites. Her name is Hope, and while I'm not completely sure of her MBTI type (some sort of IxFx), quite a few of her songs seem Fe to me.






For the longest time, I wasn't really sure of whether this was an Fe or Fi song, but I eventually came to the conclusion that it's probably the former. What I like about it, though, is that it's not at all a forceful or imposing song. It's the singer's subjective interpretation of what love means to her, but a lot of the ideas she highlights are Fe in nature.






This song is also probably slightly more Fe than Fi, but just like the song above, it's really not imposing in the least. A lot of Fe songs are more forceful in nature and give off messages like "We are all one - join us!" This one, though, is much more personal and mentor-like - "You helped me when I was down, so let me help you." With that said, I can definitely see how I could relate to this song as an Fi user, so I don't think it's exclusive to Fe - it just really depends on the motives behind the person delivering the message. 

I'd be more inclined to think an Fe user would give this message with the mindset of "My friend is hurting - I want to help so he/she can feel better." It's generally more focused on the relief and not as much what's causing the pain (although this is probably more true for dominant than auxiliary Fe). Fi, on the other hand, would probably have a mindset like "I know what it feels like to suffer that much pain, and I'm not going to let that happen to anyone else." It's focused on identifying (and identifying with) the source of the pain in order to help as much as it can - relief cannot truly happen until the source is discovered and dealt with. Again, though, this is typically most pronounced in dominant Fi users. 

Wow, lots of rambling.  But I guess after reflecting on the lyrics, this song could definitely be Fi over Fe. I think it could probably go either way, though.


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## Greyhart (Oct 13, 2014)

Probably Fi and some heavy Nx. Ni?


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## Ninjaws (Jul 10, 2014)

Fi:


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## Scarlet Eyes (May 15, 2015)

I think this can count as an Fe song; I'm not exactly up to par when it comes to typing songs


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