# Am I an INFP or INTP?



## smileyjohn (Jan 24, 2012)

I have asked about my type before but recently whenever I have taken the test I have scored INTP. I have read a few descriptions of the INTP and they seem reasonably accurate, some of the points describe me well, but others do not.

On the other hand, I can also relate to INFP's and some of the points in their descriptions. Do INFP's, as the 'idealists', see the world as they would like it to be? Because I don't see it in my ideal way, I kind of see it for what it is, and I don't enjoy going outside where other people gather because of this, unless it is just with a good friend or something. 

I tend to make big decisions or decisions that would effect others by using logic and reasoning, but with small everyday choices I just do what feels right, which is why I am questioning what my type is. If I'm right Fi governs sense of morals and values, doing what feels right, and Ti is about analysing things in the mind? I have been researching alot on this MBTI topic recently...  

So I decided to take a cognitive functions test, it described the most accurate fit for my type as INFP, but it also revealed that I have a strong Fi and Ti as well. Fi slightly more stronger than Ti. Which suggests I am an INFP. 

However, I have read that Fi users tend to be easily offended if someone goes against their values, but I can't think of an example where this has happened to me, I am not really clear what my values are either, but I do know if something feels right or wrong.
It also appears to be an idea that INFP's are warm characters, and I think people do see me as a warm person, I tend to bite my tounge if I'm going to say something which might cause offence to people I do not know, however I rarely express my opinions or emotions, I just tend to smile and nod in conversations trying to appear friendly, unfortunately some people can get creeped out at my lack of any other expression, which is amusing. I sometimes say completely strange things to see how the other person will react, if I get on with them. 

I can be quite outgoing but ultimately I feel very tired at the end of the day if I have been spending time with other people. I have noticed I tend to mimic the behaviour of the people I am with, which seems odd...

So I think I am either an INFP with a good Ti or an INTP with a good Fi. I was interested to see what you people think, I'm quite new to this whole system, but I would like to learn what my type is so I can understand myself better. 
Thanks for reading through my ramblings aha


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## mentok (Feb 9, 2012)

yah, so I had trouble with this exact problem. I tested for the longest time INTP, now that I look back I wasn't in the right place emotionally and it didn't just feel right. I can't think of myself as a thinker over a feeler bc then I just see myself as a robot (no offence INTPs i love u). And just bc you don't express your feelings all the time doesn't mean there not there. INFP's usually don't open up unless they feel ZERO emotional threats (well at least for me anyway).

Sooo, what feels right to you? Take time to think about it and feel it out.
OH.. and I think INTP's can still have a warm personality, but I'm not sure so correct me if I'm wrong on that anyone.


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## smileyjohn (Jan 24, 2012)

Ok, thanks Mentok, I'll have to think about it (or feel about it XD) I'll look up some more information to read about the differences between INFP's and INTP's to see which one I relate with more, and I know what you mean about not expressing your feelings but still having them there, I kind of know what I'm feeling but I don't like expressing it unless its through some kind of release like music or some other activity.


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## Loveternity (Aug 3, 2011)

I want to start by saying that my post reflects my own perception of the functions and types so far and that I could be quite wrong. Nevertheless, I'll try my best to help out.



smileyjohn said:


> I have read a few descriptions of the INTP and they seem reasonably accurate, some of the points describe me well, but others do not.


I believe you should not put much weight behind type descriptions, they can be misleading. Some people can "connect" with the description more than others, that doesn't mean some of them are INTPs and some aren't.



smileyjohn said:


> Do INFP's, as the 'idealists', see the world as they would like it to be? Because I don't see it in my ideal way, I kind of see it for what it is, and I don't enjoy going outside where other people gather because of this, unless it is just with a good friend or something.


In general, yes. That's a result of the Fi - Ne loop.



smileyjohn said:


> I tend to make big decisions or decisions that would effect others by using logic and reasoning, but with small everyday choices I just do what feels right, which is why I am questioning what my type is. If I'm right Fi governs sense of morals and values, doing what feels right, and Ti is about analysing things in the mind? I have been researching alot on this MBTI topic recently...


This indicates Ti. This topic explains the differences between Fi and Ti fairly well in my opinion.



smileyjohn said:


> I have read that Fi users tend to be easily offended if someone goes against their values, but I can't think of an example where this has happened to me, I am not really clear what my values are either, but I do know if something feels right or wrong.


A Ti impression again.



smileyjohn said:


> It also appears to be an idea that INFP's are warm characters


This isn't an INFP "trait", some INFPs are genuinely warm, some aren't. I believe this is true for all types, "warmness" is more of an enneagram thing. roud:



smileyjohn said:


> I tend to bite my tounge if I'm going to say something which might cause offence to people I do not know, however I rarely express my opinions or emotions, I just tend to smile and nod in conversations trying to appear friendly, unfortunately some people can get creeped out at my lack of any other expression, which is amusing. I sometimes say completely strange things to see how the other person will react, if I get on with them.


I guess that consciously thinking of not wanting to offend someone can come from either Fi, Fe or Ti. A Fi user would find it immoral, a Fe user would not want to change someone's views and feelings directly and a Ti user would see no reason to.



smileyjohn said:


> I have noticed I tend to mimic the behaviour of the people I am with, which seems odd...


A Fe trait. INTP seems even more likely.



smileyjohn said:


> So I think I am either an INFP with a good Ti or an INTP with a good Fi.


An INFP does not use Ti and an INTP does not use Fi. Their functions are Fi - Ne - Si - Te and Ti - Ne - Si - Fe respectively.

You seem like an INTP to me, but like I said in the start of the post, I could be wrong. I hope I have cleared some of your confusion and not the opposite!


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## DJeter (May 24, 2011)

I would look into INFJ descriptions and Ni versus Ne descriptions. A lot of what you said sounds like Fe, which would indicate you're neither INTP nor INFP. Also, for those two types it's odd to score in between on thinking and feeling. If your N scores are generally your highest then you should look into INTJ and INFJ. I'm leaning towards INFJ since as I said I see some Fe and some Ni as well.


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## Hosker (Jan 19, 2011)

Try looking at the inferior functions for both types as well: Fe and Te, and maybe see if you can find an article which talks about how these are expressed in these types (they are there for INTPs at the very least). You seem more INTPish to me but I can't be sure.


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## Loveternity (Aug 3, 2011)

@WSidis , I think it's inferior Fe, mostly due to this sentence in the original post.



smileyjohn said:


> I am not really clear what my values are either, but I do know if something feels right or wrong.


@JungyesMBTIno describes it better than I can.



JungyesMBTIno said:


> Yeah, lower Fe isn't going to appeal to authority so much, since Ti compensates for this, although this still doesn't not make it Fe. Lower Fe doesn't allow a Ti user to have much of an internal concept of what they personally value to shape their identity and whatnot like Fi (even the higher Fe users have a stronger concept of Fi than the lower ones, since Fi would be higher in them). Their values-based reasoning is still essentially what they pull from the environment, rather than from a system of their own (e.g. just ask INTPs what's important to them without giving a context and watch how they almost can't even answer the question most of the time - I swear, this Fi experiment has yet to fail me with them, lol - they only seem to be able to figure this out a bit when in Fe mode interacting with others - like, their values only seem to be evident to them when engaging with others, which is Fe (that's why I eliminate "context" when asking the "Fi question," since extroverted functions usually need a context to frame their judgements in when determining them, while the introverted functions operate more universally).


I stand by my INTP impression.


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## myexplodingcat (Feb 6, 2011)

Overflow said:


> An INFP does not use Ti and an INTP does not use Fi. Their functions are Fi - Ne - Si - Te and Ti - Ne - Si - Fe respectively.


This isn't true! Every type uses each function. The unpreferred ones are used when the preferred ones won't be able to do the job right.

@WSidis: Actually, it's very common to be confused between INTP and INFP. Take a look at the What's My Type? forum main page--there are usually no less than two or three people stuck between the two types.

The reason is that Ti and Fi are actually a lot similar than most people think. They work with different media: Ti with logic of its own situational, custom-made-to-the-situation brand; Fi with personal impressions and other unquantifiable things. But the way they work is very similar. Both are subjective; they're right-brained, and they fit their impressions, logic, whatever to the situation. Both have principles or values that they're very outspoken about. Both are Introverted. Both are rational.

Right?

I can't give conclusive help to you, @smileyjohn. But I will tell you that your writing style doesn't look terribly like most INFPs I know. How did you come up with the rest of your type? Have you seen descriptions of Ni?


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## Loveternity (Aug 3, 2011)

@myexplodingcat Good point, I should have used the word "prefer" there.  It's worth noting that the non-preferred ones (a.k.a. shadow functions) are usually not used on a conscious level. Or am I mistaken? I guess I've still got a lot to learn.


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## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

> The reason is that Ti and Fi are actually a lot similar than most people think. They work with different media: Ti with logic of its own situational, custom-made-to-the-situation brand; Fi with personal impressions and other unquantifiable things.


Can you explain how logic and personal values have anything in common? There is a T/F divide for a reason. Dominant F types should not mistake themselves with dominant T types (I mean, how often do you ever see Te doms mistaking themselves for Fe doms? Or Ni doms mistaking themselves for Si doms? - Te does not sincerely appeal to the feelings of the group at all like Fe, etc.). I think you have tunnel-vision about some of the functions, as I've seen in most of your posts getting carried away with breaking down all that differs between the functions. I have yet to meet any INTPs that remotely get Fi beyond crude stereotypes (sans those who are well-educated in type theory and whatnot). They don't consider the possibility of the individual feelings of others much at all, until someone tells them to (I've been there with quite a few of them I know). They tend to inadvertently make personal attacks and then fail to see why someone could possibly have been bothered by their personal "logic," since their "logic" is so obvious to them. I think Fi's their 8th function for a reason. Sure, like any type, they probably have some way of using it, but it shouldn't theoretically have much of anything in common with Fi in the dominant form. The 8th functions are probably major perversions of these functions in the dominant form, if anything.


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## smileyjohn (Jan 24, 2012)

Hmm... I am not sure quite how to reply to everyone, but thank you all for your input, it has been useful and has made it very apparent that I need to look into the functions more in depth in order to understand what type I am.

@Overflow - Thank you, I think I have definately put too much weight behind the type descriptions. I shall look into the differences between Fi and Ti, which I need to learn about more. In fact I need to learn about all of the functions more. 

@WSidis - Thanks, I will look into Ni and Ne functions and yes my N scores in tests are usually the highest, so I will find out more about INTJs and INFJs, however I'm not too sure about it.

@Hosker - I'll look for an article on inferior functions for INFPs and INTPs to see how they work. I need to learn alot more on this topic. 

@myexplodingcat - First of all I like your name. Anyway, I didn't realise that different types have different ways of typing, I guess that would be made clearer if I had a look round on the forum at the different types, and I'll look at Ni more in depth.

@JungyesMBTIno - By describing the INTPs understanding of Fi in this way it definately makes me think that I am not an INTP, this is because in making decisions or in just general conversation I tend to consider the individuals feelings, how they feel at this point in time or about a paticular subject. I don't want to cause unnecessary conflict. 

Thank you everyone for the responses and sorry for the late reply, it has become clear that I need to look into the functions more and develop my understanding of them.

:happy:


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## Dreamer777 (Jan 15, 2011)

smileyjohn said:


> I have asked about my type before but recently whenever I have taken the test I have scored INTP. I have read a few descriptions of the INTP and they seem reasonably accurate, some of the points describe me well, but others do not.
> 
> On the other hand, I can also relate to INFP's and some of the points in their descriptions. Do INFP's, as the 'idealists', see the world as they would like it to be? Because I don't see it in my ideal way, I kind of see it for what it is, and I don't enjoy going outside where other people gather because of this, unless it is just with a good friend or something.
> 
> ...


*However, I have read that Fi users tend to be easily offended if someone goes against their values, but I can't think of an example where this has happened to me, I am not really clear what my values are either, but I do know if something feels right or wrong.*

This is a dead giveaway that you are not a dominant feeling type like the INFP. INFP's go through this offendedness all the time, INFP's know their values!! For INFP's it's kinda like this, "Don't mess with my Fi!!"


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## mentok (Feb 9, 2012)

Dreamer777 said:


> This is a dead giveaway that you are not a dominant feeling type like the INFP. INFP's go through this offendedness all the time, INFP's know their values!! For INFP's it's kinda like this, "Don't mess with my Fi!!"


So true. If it doesn't bother you when someone contradicts your morals and values, especially someone close to you, then you probably aren't dominant feeling like dreamer says.


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## Dreamer777 (Jan 15, 2011)

WSidis said:


> I would look into INFJ descriptions and Ni versus Ne descriptions. A lot of what you said sounds like Fe, which would indicate you're neither INTP nor INFP. Also, for those two types it's odd to score in between on thinking and feeling. If your N scores are generally your highest then you should look into INTJ and INFJ. I'm leaning towards INFJ since as I said I see some Fe and some Ni as well.


you can't be high in Fi if you're an INTP. and definately as i mentioned before you can't be INFP if you don't get offended easily and don't know your values. INFJ's are Ni Fe Ti Se They do have Fi, but it is nowhere near the strength of their Fe. i agree you have alot of Fe, it's looking like you're INFJ.

Look at the 8 cognitive function descriptions. Fi verses Fe, Ni verses Ne, Si verses Se, Ti verses Te, choose one each of those 4 you are stronger in:

Fi or Fe?______
Ni or Ne?______
Si or Se?______
Ti or Te?______

then put the 4 you choose in order from strongest to weakest. 

1. Strongest_____
2. 2nd__________
3. 3rd__________
4. Weakest______


Fi - INTROVERTED FEELING
Valuing and considering importance, beliefs, and worth.
It is often hard to assign words to the values used to make introverted Feeling judgments since they are often associated with images, feeling tones, and gut reactions more than words. As a cognitive process, it often serves as a filter for information that matches what is valued, wanted, or worth believing in. There can be a continual weighing of the situational worth or importance of everything and a patient balancing of the core issues of peace and conflict in life’s situations. We engage in the process of introverted Feeling when a value is compromised and we think, “Sometimes, some things just have to be said.” On the other hand, most of the time this process works “in private” and is expressed through actions. It helps us know when people are being fake or insincere or if they are basically good. It is like having an internal sense of the “essence” of a person or a project and reading fine distinctions among feeling tones. 

Fe - EXTRAVERTED FEELING
Connecting and considering others and the group.
The process of extraverted Feeling often involves a desire to connect with (or disconnect from) others and is often evidenced by expressions of warmth (or displeasure) and self-disclosure. The “social graces,” such as being polite, being nice, being friendly, being considerate, and being appropriate, often revolve around the process of extraverted Feeling. Keeping in touch, laughing at jokes when others laugh, and trying to get people to act kindly to each other also involve extraverted Feeling. Using this process, we respond according to expressed or even unexpressed wants and needs of others. We may ask people what they want or need or self-disclose to prompt them to talk more about themselves. This often sparks conversation and lets us know more about them so we can better adjust our behavior to them. Often with this process, we feel pulled to be responsible and take care of others’ feelings, sometimes to the point of not separating our feelings from theirs. We may recognize and adhere to shared values, feelings, and social norms to get along.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ____________

Ni - INTROVERTED INTUITING
Foreseeing implications, transformations, and likely effects.
Introverted iNtuiting involves synthesizing the seemingly paradoxical or contradictory, which takes understanding to a new level. Using this process, we can have moments when completely new, unimagined realizations come to us. A disengagement from interactions in the room occurs, followed by a sudden “Aha!” or “That’s it!” The sense of the future and the realizations that come from introverted iNtuiting have a sureness and an imperative quality that seem to demand action and help us stay focused on fulfilling our vision or dream of how things will be in the future. Using this process, we might rely on a focal device or symbolic action to predict, enlighten, or transform. We could find ourselves laying out how the future will unfold based on unseen trends and telling signs. This process can involve working out complex concepts or systems of thinking or conceiving of symbolic or novel ways to understand things that are universal. It can lead to creating transcendent experiences or solutions.

Ne – EXTRAVERTED INTUITING
Interpreting situations and relationships and pickup meanings and interconnections to other contexts.
Extraverted iNtuiting involves noticing hidden meanings and interpreting them, often entertaining a wealth of possible interpretations from just one idea or interpreting what someone’s behavior really means. It also involves seeing things “as if,” with various possible representations of reality. Using this process, we can juggle many different ideas, thoughts, beliefs, and meanings in our mind at once with the possibility that they are all true. This is like weaving themes and threads together. We don’t know the weave until a thought thread appears or is drawn out in the interaction of thoughts, often brought in from other contexts. Thus a strategy or concept often emerges from the here-and-now interactions, not appearing as a whole beforehand. Using this process we can really appreciate brainstorming and trust what emerges, enjoying imaginative play with scenarios and combining possibilities, using a kind of cross-contextual thinking. Extraverted iNtuiting also can involve catalyzing people and extemporaneously shaping situations, spreading an atmosphere of change through emergent leadership.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___________

Si - INTROVERTED SENSING
Reviewing and recalling past experiences and seeking detailed data.
Introverted Sensing often involves storing data and information, then comparing and contrasting the current situation with similar ones. The immediate experience or words are instantly linked with the prior experiences, and we register a similarity or a difference—for example, noticing that some food doesn’t taste the same or is saltier than it usually is. Introverted Sensing is also operating when we see someone who reminds us of someone else. Sometimes a feeling associated with the recalled image comes into our awareness along with the information itself. Then the image can be so strong, our body responds as if reliving the experience. The process also involves reviewing the past to draw on the lessons of history, hindsight, and experience. With introverted Sensing, there is often great attention to detail and getting a clear picture of goals and objectives and what is to happen. There can be a oneness with ageless customs that help sustain civilization and culture and protect what is known and long-lasting, even while what is reliable changes.

Se - EXTROVERTED SENSING
Experiencing and acting in the immediate context.
Extraverted Sensing occurs when we become aware of what is in the physical world in rich detail. We may be drawn to act on what we experience to get an immediate result. We notice relevant facts and occurrences in a sea of data and experiences, learning all the facts we can about the immediate context or area of focus and what goes on in that context. An active seeking of more and more input to get the whole picture may occur until all sources of input have been exhausted or something else captures our attention. Extraverted Sensing is operating when we freely follow exciting physical impulses or instincts as they come up and enjoy the thrill of action in the present moment. A oneness with the physical world and a total absorption may exist as we move, touch, and sense what is around us. The process involves instantly reading cues to see how far we can go in a situation and still get the impact we want or respond to the situation with presence.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ____________

Ti - INTROVERTED THINKING 
Analyzing, categorizing, and evaluating according to principles.
Introverted Thinking often involves finding just the right word to clearly express an idea concisely, crisply, and to the point. Using introverted Thinking is like having an internal sense of the essential qualities of something, noticing the fine distinctions that make it what it is and then naming it. It also involves an internal reasoning process of deriving subcategories of classes and sub-principles of general principles. These can then be used in problem solving, analysis, and refining of a product or an idea. This process is evidenced in behaviors like taking things or ideas apart to figure out how they work. The analysis involves looking at different sides of an issue and seeing where there is inconsistency. In so doing, we search for a “leverage point” that will fix problems with the least amount of effort or damage to the system. We engage in this process when we notice logical inconsistencies between statements and frameworks, using a model to evaluate the likely accuracy of what’s observed. 

Te - EXTROVERTED THINKING
Segmenting, organizing for efficiency, and systematizing.
Contingency planning, scheduling, and quantifying utilize the process of extraverted Thinking. Extraverted Thinking helps us organize our environment and ideas through charts, tables, graphs, flow charts, outlines, and so on. At its most sophisticated, this process is about organizing and monitoring people and things to work efficiently and productively. Empirical thinking is at the core of extraverted Thinking when we challenge someone’s ideas based on the logic of the facts in front of us or lay out reasonable explanations for decisions or conclusions made, often trying to establish order in someone else’s thought process. In written or verbal communication, extraverted Thinking helps us easily follow someone else’s logic, sequence, or organization. It also helps us notice when something is missing, like when someone says he or she is going to talk about four topics and talks about only three. In general, it allows us to compartmentalize many aspects of our lives so we can do what is necessary to accomplish our objectives.


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## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

Yeah, I highly doubt that the OP is an F type at all, if they aren't easily offended by much, which is a very common part of being an F type (for some reason, no one talks about this, even though it's so obvious about F types, and it doesn't make them wimps either - the only time they can get wimpy is when they resist self-defense and let others walk all over their feelings, which applies to anyone).


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## smileyjohn (Jan 24, 2012)

Fi or Fe?______Fe
Ni or Ne?______Ne
Si or Se?______Si
Ti or Te?______Ti



1. Strongest_____Ne
2. 2nd__________Fe
3. 3rd__________Ti
4. Weakest______Si

(I'm fairly ceartin that those are my functions, but not as clear as to what order they go in.)

Edit: Maybe Ni and Se instead? Need to think about it. + To help me understand Fi, for example if someone who holds the belief that all people should be vegitarians (this is not a real example) and it is a very strong part of their morals and values, would they be offended if someone didn't comply to their beliefs and ate meat in their presence? Sorry for the strange example, but is this how Fi works?


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## Dreamer777 (Jan 15, 2011)

smileyjohn said:


> Fi or Fe?______Fe
> Ni or Ne?______Ne
> Si or Se?______Si
> Ti or Te?______Ti
> ...


is the description of Fi the one you have the hardest time trying to understand what it means, out of all 8 functions? that would be the devilish function of the INTP and ISTP, which means it's the INTP and the ISTP that doesn't really comprehend the description of Fi? their inferior function is Fe, Fi is the shadow of the inferior function, thus called the devilish function. Understanding the Eight Jungian Cognitive Processes / Eight Functions Attitudes

let us know whether you use more Ni than Ne or Se than Si as you mentioned ur not sure and need to think about it? i would say especially Ne or Ni, focus on that one, which one do you use more of?


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## myexplodingcat (Feb 6, 2011)

JungyesMBTIno said:


> I have yet to meet any INTPs that remotely get Fi beyond crude stereotypes (sans those who are well-educated in type theory and whatnot). They don't consider the possibility of the individual feelings of others much at all, until someone tells them to (I've been there with quite a few of them I know). They tend to inadvertently make personal attacks and then fail to see why someone could possibly have been bothered by their personal "logic," since their "logic" is so obvious to them.


You have actually met INTPs? Real, healthy, non dom-tert loop INTPs, who aren't being affected by the Internet barrier? Most _INTPs_ haven't met INTPs apart from themselves. 

Well-developed INTPs will, yes, _unconsciously_ use Fi on some level. And not necessarily in a bad way. But they probably won't know it's Fi, or be able to describe it in a way that would satisfy Je-ers (especially Extroverted Thinkers).

I could of course be wrong on this whole theory. It is a theory, and I'm testing it constantly in theory and in practice, mentally trying it out on different people whose types I know. But even in its infancy, it definitely makes much more sense to me than the "shadow function" theory.

By all means, please continue arguing with me. (I'm serious.) I need to know where the holes of the theory are so I can find logic sufficient to know how to tweak things until it's legitimate.

This process of determination is very likely to annoy you, as an Extroverted Thinker. On the other hand, there's probably going to be something very satisfying about pointing out the flaws in my theory. XD

Edit: I see the problem.

Our Fi doesn't show up like INFPs' Fi. Our Fi, like all of our functions, has been affected by the prominent functions we use. That is, it is adjusted to suit Ti's needs. It represents our values; it just does so in a way that makes sense to Ti because it's adapted to working with that function. Fi focuses on personal values--not necessarily other people's, or the values of the collective whole (Fe). It's also less developed than Ti (duh), meaning it's focused inwardly, not at other people. 

We can't always see that it's a bad idea to tell someone certain truths in a certain way, because we'd want the truth ourselves. We're not taking their values into account, like mature Fi--we're projecting our own out. Does this directly work against Ti? I don't think so. It does do some good things for our psyche. It just doesn't work like INFPs' Fi, which is refined and mature and competent.

Possibly, this is what's bothering people.


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## myexplodingcat (Feb 6, 2011)

JungyesMBTIno said:


> Can you explain how logic and personal values have anything in common? There is a T/F divide for a reason.


Yes. There is. Notice that I didn't say they were the same.

OUR logic has a few things in common with Introverted Feeling's specific uses. Both work pretty similarly. They come from one person (as opposed to Te, which is a standard-based logic, or Fe, which has to do with social rituals). They're fit to the situation. They are recognizably subjective.

I did say they worked in different worlds. But work is not the only aspect of a function. Simply because one artist paints and another plays music doesn't mean they aren't both artists.



> Dominant F types should not mistake themselves with dominant T types (I mean, how often do you ever see Te doms mistaking themselves for Fe doms? Or Ni doms mistaking themselves for Si doms?


It's not unheard of, actually. They _are_ different, just not quite as much as people think.



> Te does not sincerely appeal to the feelings of the group at all like Fe, etc.).


Of course it doesn't. Feeling is Feeling. But the way it works is similar: focused on the external world, accepted things, other people.



> I think you have tunnel-vision about some of the functions, as I've seen in most of your posts getting carried away with breaking down all that differs between the functions. I have yet to meet any INTPs that remotely get Fi beyond crude stereotypes (sans those who are well-educated in type theory and whatnot). They don't consider the possibility of the individual feelings of others much at all, until someone tells them to (I've been there with quite a few of them I know). They tend to inadvertently make personal attacks and then fail to see why someone could possibly have been bothered by their personal "logic," since their "logic" is so obvious to them.


Do specify exactly what posts you're referring to. What definition of Fi are you using? How many INTPs do you actually know in real life, who aren't sitting in front of a computer and not consciously thinking they're talking to a real person, far away? I'm interested now.

I have seen INTPs who are actually very respectful of other people's values and hold their own in a very high place. My dad is one. Just because we fail Turing tests doesn't mean we don't have morals. (Irony, irony. XD)



> I think Fi's their 8th function for a reason. Sure, like any type, they probably have some way of using it, but it shouldn't theoretically have much of anything in common with Fi in the dominant form. The 8th functions are probably major perversions of these functions in the dominant form, if anything.


I highly distrust the "shadow" function theory. If someone could make it make logical sense, I'd consider it. So far, all I have seen come out of it is... well, typically Jung. The functions have been refined into usefulness, but some of his other stuff? Hm. No comment.


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## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

> You have actually met INTPs? Real, healthy, non dom-tert loop INTPs, who aren't being affected by the Internet barrier? Most INTPs haven't met INTPs apart from themselves.


Why yes indeed. I know about 15 of them or so. In fact, my twin sister who I've known for life is one!



> Well-developed INTPs will, yes, unconsciously use Fi on some level. And not necessarily in a bad way. But they probably won't know it's Fi, or be able to describe it in a way that would satisfy Je-ers (especially Extroverted Thinkers).


The thing is, relative to Fi in the dominant form, demonic Fi is going to manifest in a very crude way, as in, highly underdeveloped and not respected as a comfortable way of thinking for INTPs, since the demonic functions are said to influence a personality under stress. Since you use it unconsciously, there's a very high chance that you are unaware of even using it or what you may be influenced by is it (I'm not so sure how demonic Si has even influenced me, although I have my ideas). Regardless of it's existence in a Ti dom, it isn't going to look like the highly natural/confident usage you see in an Fi dom.



> This process of determination is very likely to annoy you, as an Extroverted Thinker.


It doesn't annoy me at all. Guiding people through logic is Te's forte, actually (since, being an extroverted function, it tends to want to involve itself with others, so to speak). I like when people are willing to explore possibilities to get a handle on logic. This forum can use a lot more critical inquiry, frankly.



> We can't always see that it's a bad idea to tell someone certain truths in a certain way, because we'd want the truth ourselves. We're not taking their values into account, like mature Fi--we're projecting our own out. Does this directly work against Ti? I don't think so.


Well, you're getting there. For Ti doms, their logic is their universe, so to speak, while their aux. Ne is what allows them to venture outside of it in a healthy, comfortable way so they don't get too rigid with their logic. The idea of people being offended by personal logic is rather foreign to Ti doms, since they, assuming they don't know MBTI theories and whatnot, project that everyone thinks similarly to the way they do (in other words, they expect others to have a personal logic system themselves that is important to them, so thus, there is no reason, in their minds, that others should be bothered by their personal logic, which generally involves making sense of things with logical methods that make sense to them, since they think others have their own personal logic that they should be easily able to defend). That's the fascinating nature of projection at work! However, Fi gets in the way of this, since it is in the realm of personal values (it's main focus is on defining the self and their perceptions via feelings rather than logic), so it won't naturally respect the idea of personal logic, since this infringes on the ability to go about however the Fi user wants to view him/herself and the values that they feel are inherent to their Fi existence (Fi is definitely the most subjective "rational" function out there - the way it operates is not inherently logical - some of them will even go as far as to want to defy logic altogether just to feel comfortable in defining their feelings and making sense of things that appeal to their feelings so it remains appealing to their feelings - god, Fi is pretty weird to explain, lol, being an Fi tert. type, even though it's pretty obvious to me - I suppose this is the trouble that Ti users have explaining their Ti to the world). It's methods are probably almost, if not, beyond comprehension to Ti, particularly in the dominant form, since they don't operate on personal logic. Ti in the dominant form is intensely focused on extracting truth and logical consistency from anything of interest or important to them, while the same really can't be said for dominant Fi users (their primary focus would be making subjective (non-logical, feelings system-based) sense of things in ways that appeal to their dominant feelings, so as a last resort, they'll use inferior Te to make sure they don't loose intellectual integrity when validating something to themselves, but overall, this is far from their first priority. I'll get back to you later with more, since I have to go to my English class right now, but I'm glad you asked about Fi, because, next to Ni, it is undoubtedly the most misunderstood function out there.


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