# The 4 sides of the mind (not talked about much)



## infinfj65 (Jul 25, 2017)

Hello All,

I was watching C.S. Joseph on YouTube and I fou d a video on the four sides of the mind. He showed the four sides of and INFJ mind. There was the ego, the super-ego, the unconscious, and the subconscious. The diagram showed the four personality types that correspond with each side. I uploaded the screenshot.

https://www.typologycentral.com/forums/typologymobile/uploads/61c1edd251a965f1903759e5bc6fe2e9.jpg

It is not something that has been mentioned on personality boards much but it seems very interesting and important to personality theory as it goes deep within the mind and functions. Does anybody know how this works? When do the other three sides of the mind come out? Any other information about this would be helpful.



Thanks.


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## Tucker (Oct 6, 2013)

infinfj65 said:


> Does anybody know how this works? When do the other three sides of the mind come out? Any other information about this would be helpful.


I think this is the one where he explains more about what you’re asking: 




It’s been a while since I watched it, though, so I might be thinking of another one.

If I understood it correctly, the subconscious is accessed through either insecurity or aspiration. It’s your inverse type (like INTP ego, ESFJ subconscious). 

The unconscious is accessed through maturity and growth. It’s your shadow functions in the same order as your ego functions. So instead of Hero, Parent, Child, Inferior - you have Nemesis, Critic, Trickster, Demon.

The superego is activated when the demon function is repressed/ignored. The demon function is your most powerful but most uncontrollable function, and is in the inferior slot in the unconscious. But it’s actually in the hero slot in the superego. People suppress this function out of fear and anxiety, when instead they should be dealing with in in a healthy way to avoid problems. The superego wants to replace the ego.


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## Foxyfox (Oct 21, 2016)

I dunno if I can bookmark threads but I'm commenting so I can find it again lol


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## Stevester (Feb 28, 2016)

Meh, it seems like another convenient loophole for people to justify/correct their typings. You see this a lot in the ''Type me'' section when people discuss their favorite musicians and fictional characters, like _''I know he's hyper quick, adaptable, aware of his surroundings and indulges in hedonistic vices, but it's still a hardcore INxJ in the grip of their ESxP shadow!!''_

Or you know, maybe he IS ESxP and you're just just trying to tie loose ends so that it fits what you want?


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

he imitated a valley girl in one of the vids and said he's now accessing his ESFP superego or something, so I question the depth of his understanding and even his sanity
seems more like he uses this to justify his ENTP self-typing when he was scoring INFJ and INTJ in tests, not that tests are always reliable, but he says he was living in his INTJ shadow for more than two decades and now he uses it to help him with his work lol
he thinks NE is "I’m Heroic with what others want", demonstrably not a NE dom

so yea, use a handful of salt imo

some of those observations can be true, for example an INFJ can be close to an INTJ, or an ISFJ, or an ENFP, meaning that some opposite letters may not be as weak and therefore have an noticeable effect on behavior for each person 
but his system as a whole and what he says himself cross on the absurd too often imo
and he uses this info to try and manipulate others and teach people to manipulate others, which again make him far more INJ than he admits
so I question his judgment and definitions


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## Stevester (Feb 28, 2016)

Red Panda said:


> seems more like he uses this to justify his ENTP self-typing when he was scoring INFJ and INTJ in tests,


Except, INxJs are literally the most romanticized/popular types in the MBTI community so I just don't see how anyone would _''avoid''_ that. Like I said many times, I believe he's actually STJ and went with ENTP because of the whole smartass/knowledgeable/charismatic type which he definitely seems to push in his videos. But he has a lot of triggered _''I'm right/you're wrong, won't listen to what you say'' moments_ in his videos which do suggest Lower Fi to me.


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## Aridela (Mar 14, 2015)

Stevester said:


> Except, INxJs are literally the most romanticized/popular types in the MBTI community so I just don't see how anyone would _''avoid''_ that. Like I said many times, I believe he's actually STJ and went with ENTP because of the whole smartass/knowledgeable/charismatic type which he definitely seems to push in his videos. But he has a lot of triggered _''I'm right/you're wrong, won't listen to what you say'' moments_ in his videos which do suggest Lower Fi to me.


He uses Te for sure, doubt he's a Te dom though. 

Aux is possible.


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

Stevester said:


> Except, INxJs are literally the most romanticized/popular types in the MBTI community so I just don't see how anyone would _''avoid''_ that. Like I said many times, I believe he's actually STJ and went with ENTP because of the whole smartass/knowledgeable/charismatic type which he definitely seems to push in his videos. But he has a lot of triggered _''I'm right/you're wrong, won't listen to what you say'' moments_ in his videos which do suggest Lower Fi to me.


Well, maybe he has his reasons for wanting to be an ENTP even if he's INJ, there have been quite a few NJs in the ENTP forum who thought were ENTP and you see their threads and their changed type. The ENTP type is either 'romanticized' (used) by psychos to blame something else for their deficiencies, or romanticised especially by NFs that don't want to accept they're not T and wanna see themselves as a rational genius that is also an empath and great with people. An INTJ and an ENTP are only one preference apart, if we take as a fact that they are both N doms (which realistically is not always the case since dichotomies don't test function dominance but anyways), the J-P axis and so for some people it can be blurred. Not saying he's necessarily that, he could be STJ too I guess, tho I kinda feel the complexity he's built to justify his type is more indicative of N.


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## Jaredson (Aug 12, 2019)

Well, it's a synthesis of the Beebe model and the four blocks of socionics, I guess. The theory that you transition between personality types walking down the street is pretty unhinged, but Beebe does put a lot of unneeded emphasis on the idea that people are constellations of separate intelligences, so I see this guy's thought process.

Leaving aside the role it plays in his theory, I do think conceptualizing all the expressions of the super-id/"subconscious"/anima as having the same type (Du) is useful for all the types and opens up and gives wider application to the theories about integration. The theories about the different expressions of the anima seem a little colored by Jung's extrapolations from his own case. I guess it doesn't matter so much, as only Ni dominants' contemplative lives are gonna really center around active imagination, but some aspects of the theory don't and won't really square with what INFJs will experience in their lives and practices imo.




Red Panda said:


> he imitated a valley girl in one of the vids and said he's now accessing his ESFP superego or something, so I question the depth of his understanding and even his sanity
> seems more like he uses this to justify his ENTP self-typing when he was scoring INFJ and INTJ in tests, not that tests are always reliable, but he says he was living in his INTJ shadow for more than two decades and now he uses it to help him with his work lol
> he thinks NE is "I’m Heroic with what others want", demonstrably not a NE dom
> 
> ...


I mean, the shadow stuff fits pretty well with some of von Franz's theories on type, but that's a lot of red flags. I have no idea what they're flagging, though. Tbh I can't imagine anyone thinking they were the type of their contrary for two decades and not becoming a bit off.


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## brightflashes (Oct 27, 2015)

I can't even articulate how much I dislike this guy. I also question his sanity - as in, his actual clinical sanity.


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## Stevester (Feb 28, 2016)

*CS Joseph:* _''Te users always need reference points, they'll tell you to cite your sources, always cite your sources. They're about credentials, they're all about credentials...''_

*Also CS Joseph:* _''This is exactly like that ISTP Boss I used to work for. He had Ni child, so he knew what he wanted, Ni child knows what it wants according to the Beebe model. They are a direct and movement type, it's all explained in Dr. Barrens' book, which you should pick up and read, it is the dopest folks...''_






AM I THE ONLY ONE WHO SEES SOMETHING WRONG HERE???


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## Gurthang (Aug 21, 2019)

I wonder how he arrived at all this, I shut it off after about 7 minutes as I found the whole thing to be disturbing. Sophistry?


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## Dscross (Jul 7, 2017)

I wanted to resurrect this thread because I found a couple of John Beebe's original papers and wanted to get everyone's opinions. Interestingly, though people have written about it 2nd hand, he seems to talk more about the shadow than the 4 sides of the mind, indicating he was lot more confident in his shadow theory than 4 sides theory. There really isn't a whole lot from him directly about 4 sides and he supposedly invented it. Very suspicious.



https://jungstudies.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Chapter-6.pdf



https://www.jungiananalysts.org.uk/...consciousness-through-the-theory-of-types.pdf



http://www.jungatlanta.com/articles/winter08-evolving-the-eight-function-model.pdf





Integrating the Four Sides of the Mind – Personality In Depth




It's possible there's something to it. But I don't agree with CSJ's interpretation of it. That's my stance I think. If anyone can find anything written FIRST HAND about Beebe's 4 sides theory I'd be interested.


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

lol






insanity


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## brightflashes (Oct 27, 2015)

@*Dscross*

I think the most important part to keep in mind about Beebe is that the theory regarding the complexes and how they form are more true to the psychodynamic model of conscious/unconscious psychology rather than the analytical (Jungian) model of conscious/unconscious psychology. 

For this, I admire Beebe's stack model because it's very original and excites the mind down a rabbit hole (at least in my case). I love how he ties in the archetypes and the complexes one forms with them and then likens them to the Functions + their direction of I / E. It really does form a compelling picture and does at least SOMETHING to validate the Grant stack - though it goes far beyond that.

I don't know that I agree with him, but he's a very fun theorist to play around with and really get to know. If anything else, he helped me understand complexes, archetypes, and I really think there's something to that trickster association. That's the most compelling part for me, personally.


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