# Schizophrenia and Imagination



## Angelic Gardevoir (Oct 7, 2010)

To start off, let me share my own personal experience here. After a series of events I don't want to discuss, I was put on a medication called Navane, which is commonly used to treat schizophrenia. Now, I'm not schizophrenic, but I was given this because I had complained that I could not focus on my schoolwork and I was reassured that it could be used for other purposes besides treating schizophrenia. The medication had some strange side affects on me. I could not enjoy things like I once did, and I had almost completely lost the ability to fantasize. I simply did not feel like myself. Luckily, I got my dosage cut so I could slowly quit the medication. Now, I'm starting to feel like myself again.

Now, what does this have to do with the thread topic? Well, my experience led me to wonder if schizophrenia is simply imagination gone wild. Basically, if this medication brings schizophrenics closer to earth and makes a relatively normal person (I say "relatively" normal since I have my own problems) lose the ability to fantasize, there is probably a link. Could schizophrenia be caused some sort of defect in the ability to imagine? I know that when I fantasize, I am only marginally aware of reality and that I can fabricate another reality quite well, though I still retain the ability to tell the difference between the real world and my imagined world. I suspect that schizophrenics simply cannot differentiate things in this way. The only cog in this is that my fantasies are consciously initiated while schizophrenics seem to have this happen involuntarily. (Please correct me if I'm wrong.)

In addition, imagination is linked to creativity. I did a Google search, and lo and behold, I found an article stating that scientists have found a link between creativity and schizophrenia: BBC News - Creative minds 'mimic schizophrenia'

Thoughts?


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## dizzygirl (Dec 19, 2009)

I always thought that there was a connection between imagination and schizophrenia because let's face it, the delusion is what gets u tagged as a schizophrenic in the first place. Even i have multiple imagined worlds inside my head...very complex, very beautiful and the people there are basically people i'd like to know and have a mental image(more like a video) of.
"Creativity is akin to insanity, say scientists who have been studying how the mind works." True that. People who don't create are stuck to a kind of routine and place on earth that would be so mundane, so dull that i can't even imagine!
As Graham Greene said “Writing is a form of therapy; sometimes I wonder how all those, who do not write, compose, or paint can manage to escape the madness, the melancholia, the panic fear, which is inherent in a human condition” so i guess at the end of the day most of us are a little crazy. and if our imagination goes haywire, we are capable of being schizophrenics.
and this, from the 2nd link, is just sad! "Both groups lack important receptors used to filter and direct thought" though it is kind of true in a way i guess. :sad:


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## dizzygirl (Dec 19, 2009)

"The Russian dancer Vaslav Nijinsky; Nobel prize winner in economics, John Nash (A Beautiful Mind); novelist, poet and writer, Jack Kerouac; and musicians such as Peter Green, Syd Barrett and James Beck Gordon have all either experienced, or are believed to have experienced, schizophrenia in some form.

Confusion

The condition has also been linked to the families of Tennessee Williams and Albert Einstein. Psychologists believe that schizophrenia personality is also associated to the likes of Vincent Van Gogh, Emily Dickinson and Isaac Newton.

Many people with schizophrenia are naturally creative and turn to the arts to release their inner thoughts and emotions and to express the meaning of their symptoms.

In my experience, schizophrenia is potentially a very creative tool which, as yet, has not been understood or recognised and is mistreated and so its powerful symptoms manifest as confusion and destruction."

BBC NEWS | UK | Magazine | A beautiful mind

All of these articles make for very interesting reading. Thanks for the thread @Angelic Gardevoir. :happy:


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## Pillow (Apr 17, 2011)

Navane suppresses dopamine, which is often considered to be responsible in some way for creativity. I saw a BBC documentary a while back about creativity, dopamine and mental health issues, I think it was this one, you might find it interesting.

Dopamine hypothesis of schizophrenia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Dopamine system in highly creative people similar to that seen in schizophrenics, study finds


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## NekoNinja (Apr 18, 2010)

Pillow said:


> Navane suppresses dopamine, which is often considered to be responsible in some way for creativity. I saw a BBC documentary a while back about creativity, dopamine and mental health issues, I think it was this one, you might find it interesting.
> 
> Dopamine hypothesis of schizophrenia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Dopamine system in highly creative people similar to that seen in schizophrenics, study finds


I was just about to post basically the same thing. XD

Dopamine is also said to play a major role in pleasure and in motivation (among other things) so that would be why you didn't seem to enjoy things as much. However, I have no idea why they put you on anti-psychotics for attention difficulties....



> Now, what does this have to do with the thread topic? Well, my experience led me to wonder if schizophrenia is simply imagination gone wild. Basically, if this medication brings schizophrenics closer to earth and makes a relatively normal person (I say "relatively" normal since I have my own problems) lose the ability to fantasize, there is probably a link. Could schizophrenia be caused some sort of defect in the ability to imagine? I know that when I fantasize, I am only marginally aware of reality and that I can fabricate another reality quite well, though I still retain the ability to tell the difference between the real world and my imagined world. I suspect that schizophrenics simply cannot differentiate things in this way. The only cog in this is that my fantasies are consciously initiated while schizophrenics seem to have this happen involuntarily. (Please correct me if I'm wrong.)
> 
> In addition, imagination is linked to creativity. I did a Google search, and lo and behold, I found an article stating that scientists have found a link between creativity and schizophrenia: BBC News - Creative minds 'mimic schizophrenia'
> 
> Thoughts?


I have done various research in the schizophrenia/creativity area and I'm fairly certain there is a connection (probably simply increased levels of dopamine, as has been described above.) However I seriously doubt that an overactive creativity (dopamine) is the only cause to the disorder. Although dopamine is said to play a role in schizophrenia, if it was directly playing a role then as soon as someone was put on medication they should theoretically be better. However it can take from days to weeks to actually see any effects, which suggest that dopamine is not _directly_ playing a role. And also the medication may not have any effects on the individual at all. The same is basically true for depression.

Also, while creativity may possibly theoretically play a role in being delusional, it certainly can't be said that there is any connections to the many various other symptoms of schizophrenia, namely hallucinations.


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## Angelic Gardevoir (Oct 7, 2010)

NekoNinja said:


> Dopamine is also said to play a major role in pleasure and in motivation (among other things) so that would be why you didn't seem to enjoy things as much. However, I have no idea why they put you on anti-psychotics for attention difficulties....


 Incompetent mental health practitioners?  Seriously, when I told my problems to the doctor that started me on the path of phasing it out, he asked the same question.


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## Donkey D Kong (Feb 14, 2011)

I believe I read something somewhere that said schizophrenic people are using both their left and right brain at the same time, causing them to "dream while being awake" or something like that. I may be wrong though because I can't exactly remember what the book said.


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## NekoNinja (Apr 18, 2010)

Angelic Gardevoir said:


> Incompetent mental health practitioners?  Seriously, when I told my problems to the doctor that started me on the path of phasing it out, he asked the same question.


lol they must have thought you were delusional. XD


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## NekoNinja (Apr 18, 2010)

Axe said:


> I believe I read something somewhere that said schizophrenic people are using both their left and right brain at the same time, causing them to "dream while being awake" or something like that. I may be wrong though because I can't exactly remember what the book said.


The schizophrenic brain is quite fascinating imho. One quick example is how they aren't fooled by various optical illusions.

Schizophrenics see through hollow-mask illusion - health - 07 April 2009 - New Scientist

I believe that I've heard the "dreaming while awake" idea as well. However I really doubt there is any real grounds to this theory as it is neither known how dreaming really works or how schizophrenia works, so it's kinda difficult to really say the two are connected.


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## Angelic Gardevoir (Oct 7, 2010)

NekoNinja said:


> lol they must have thought you were delusional. XD


 I think it could've played out like this.

Psychiatrist: Okay, she's having suicidal thoughts and she can't concentrate on her schoolwork. What do we do?
Assistant: Give her some Klonopin. (Note: That was another medication I was put on and then taken off of. :crazy That'll ease her anxiety so she can concentrate, but it's addictive. 
Psychiatrist: That's fine, but she can always go to a pharmacy for it. We want her to come back so we can make money!
Assistant: I know! Put her on Navane. She's distracted by pleasurable things, so if we decrease her pleasure, she will both concentrate more and be miserable!
Psychiatrist: Brilliant!

Okay, so it didn't happen that way. ...Probably. :crazy:


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## susurration (Oct 22, 2009)

Amazon.com: The Madness of Adam and Eve: How Schizophrenia Shaped Humanity (9780593046494): David F. Horrobin: Books


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## NekoNinja (Apr 18, 2010)

Angelic Gardevoir said:


> I think it could've played out like this.
> 
> Psychiatrist: Okay, she's having suicidal thoughts and she can't concentrate on her schoolwork. What do we do?
> Assistant: Give her some Klonopin. (Note: That was another medication I was put on and then taken off of. :crazy That'll ease her anxiety so she can concentrate, but it's addictive.
> ...


Actually it was probably more like -

"Okay, what can we give her that will most likely make her come back to change medication?"


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## unico (Feb 3, 2011)

I used to get diagnosed with schizophrenia due to my strange talking and strong imagination (my Rorschach test was supposed to take an hour and a half and it took me 4 hours because I saw multiple stories in every picture). I am on Zyprexa (an antipsychotic) for bipolar and it has not inhibited my imagination very much, I don't think. I'm still quite creative, but sometimes now lack the focus. Schizophrenics do sound highly imaginative from the ones I've known, I agree.


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