# Got some spare time? Tell me your thoughts on what type I am! (XXXX)



## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

Halcyon said:


> Yay, I make sense! *throws a party* :tongue:


Woo~ :tongue:



> I dunno why, but this strikes me much more as introvert than extravert.


I do my best reflecting during long bus rides. Especially if it's raining!



> I dunno, you seems to focus so much on "the big picture" and your place in it all and what not. It was just a very stereotypically NF-ish thing to write.


Ah.. I don't trust stereotypes too much.



> It wouldn't be so weird if you're an INFP, but extremely weird if you're an ISFP because they don't even have Si in their stack.
> 
> And if you looked at descriptions (though they aren't too reliable) and related most to Ne and Si, I think that points pretty strongly to INFP because ISFP has neither of those functions.


It would be even weirder if I was an ESFP.. 




> I mean, I'm an Ni-dominant and I sure as hell don't go into a forest looking for deep, meaningful patterns and stuff...


Haha right? :laughing: I can be pretty deep, but not _all the time_. That would be insane. 



> I don't want to make it seem like I'm not considering other possibilities by consistently saying you're an INFP but from what you've said, I think it's really the most likely type for you. I see much more evidence of Ne in what you've written than Se. In fact, I don't really see anything to suggest that Se is a strong function for you. I do, however, see a lot to suggest it _isn't_ a strong function for you. Certainly not strong enough to be your auxiliary, at least.
> 
> Just my two cents, anyways. roud:


No, I definitely understand where you're coming from. I'm thinking the same; that I'm probably an INFP. 

Though I am interested in trying to understand all this Se @arkigos sees!

If I'm an N, is everything I write always supposed to convey N in it? It's tough not to answer a questions in a straight-forward way. Are there any questions to answer that can distinguish S/N other than the kinds in online quizzes "Are you down to earth or up in the clouds lolz" ?


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## Psychopomp (Oct 3, 2012)

zazara said:


> If I'm an N, is everything I write always supposed to convey N in it? It's tough not to answer a questions in a straight-forward way. Are there any questions to answer that can distinguish S/N other than the kinds in online quizzes "Are you down to earth or up in the clouds lolz" ?


...and that's the thing. Yes, N should be most of what you do. The majority of what you discuss should be about things you cannot picture in your mind or touch with your hand. Ideas, concepts, the nature of the thing. 

Then comes the inevitable rebuttal, "Well, I think about ideas, concepts, the nature of things...". Yes, but I think about physical things. It's gotten into our heads somewhere that only N types do N and only S types do S. Well, we know that N types do S. I talk about stuff. I share interesting anecdotes, I compare faces, I like to .. I don't know... experience things. Sure. 

If the world were full of N types, we might type those somewhat more inclined or interested in S pursuits as S types, simply because our minds seek out dichotomies. All the time I see S types mistype N because the dichotomies would have them believe being interested in ideas means you are an N. It does not. 

It's so essential to not think of what you COULD see if your cat brings you a dead mouse, but what you DO see. I could go up to any S type and say, 'okay, your cat brought you a mouse, explore that with your imagination' and they would come up with something fascinating. But that doesn't mean they are N types any more than me saying that it was a dead mouse makes me an S. 

The question is, what do you do the most so much so that it ruins you to the other? Is the mouse a symbol or a mouse? Which is it so much that the other thing gets muddled up and forgotten. 

Is it that people are knocking you upside the head, saying "It's just a mouse!" and you say, "right, right, yes, just a mouse" or is that they say, "think of what it symbolizes" and you say, "right, right, yes, it can symbolize a lot".

To the ENFPs I have known, it is constantly that they cannot see that it is just a mouse. They can't. It's deadly and foreign to them to see anything other than what it is a symbol of. Because they are Ne DOMINANT. Sensory is on the bottom. Inferior, forgotten, dismissed.

For an INFP it should be more moderate, but still, the world is more the symbol than the reality.

You might reply that you see symbols in lots of things.. but that isn't what I am saying. I see reality in lots of things. Am I an S? Do symbols follow you around everywhere even to the point that they haunt you and affect your life... that you struggle to operate outside of them? That you can't look past them?


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## Megakill (Nov 3, 2013)

zazara said:


> Woo~ :tongue:
> 
> 
> Ah.. I don't trust stereotypes too much.
> ...


The thing about typing people on a forum is that it's really not a perfect system. But we arn't only looking at the way you write but also the things that you say, and the things that are important to you when you respond. Your description of that party was so very Se to me. My XNFP Aunt would have gone off on a strange tangent about how the concert stage represented some old era of architecture and would keep going on tangents about her observations.


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

@arkigos

I don't think of it in such a black and white way. Shouldn't sensing and intuition work with each other in harmony rather than a battle of "ruining" the other? Why must it ruin? 

I believe I wonder more about concepts and the nature of things. That mostly happens when my mind drifts off, and when I'm not constantly expected to be focused on something such as paying attention to details in class. At the end of the day, my thoughts are not about physical things or experiences at all. I find the things that I cannot see or touch to be even more fascinating. I love thinking about the unknown. But you could say that it's irrelevant and doesn't mean a thing. 

What if the person who saw the cat and the mouse had no idea what they were looking at? Shouldn't they first be able to recognize what it is before having a symbolic meaning formed in their head? How about being a child growing up.. don't they all start out with being able to identify concrete objects rather than symbols and patterns? Is it something that comes to form in the thought processes as one gets older, or has it always been like that? I mean, if the brain doesn't fully develop until you're in your mid to late 20's, then how is it possible for me to totally understand my cognitive processes? 

Yes, there are things that haunt me and follow me around everywhere for sure. They do affect my life or maybe I should say the possible ending of my life due to the fact that I had a failed suicide attempt a couple years ago. That was when I was severely depressed though so I can't say if it relates to intuition or not. Maybe my whole way of seeing things back then scared me so much that I got cautious with delving deeper into thoughts.


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

Megakill said:


> The thing about typing people on a forum is that it's really not a perfect system. But we arn't only looking at the way you write but also the things that you say, and the things that are important to you when you respond. Your description of that party was so very Se to me. My XNFP Aunt would have gone off on a strange tangent about how the concert stage represented some old era of architecture and would keep going on tangents about her observations.


I agree with that. I think I relate that party more to Si though. I didn't get too much into the details of it all, but the overall feeling it gave me.


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

I'm not counting out Se just yet!


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## Alaya (Nov 11, 2009)

You definitely seem like an Ne user, considering all the possibilities of what type you could be. As an Ni-dom, your approach for typing would have driven me insane. I think it's just a matter of determining if you're primary or secondary Ne.


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

Gnothi Seauton said:


> You definitely seem like an Ne user, considering all the possibilities of what type you could be. As an Ni-dom, your approach for typing would have driven me insane. I think it's just a matter of determining if you're primary or secondary Ne.


Do you see Se or Si as a possibility though?


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## Psychopomp (Oct 3, 2012)

Gnothi Seauton said:


> You definitely seem like an Ne user, considering all the possibilities of what type you could be. As an Ni-dom, your approach for typing would have driven me insane. I think it's just a matter of determining if you're primary or secondary Ne.


That word, 'possibilities' has undercut the nature of Ne so thoroughly in the vernacular of this community. 

In my experience, Ne types tend to have the least difficulty finding their type... 

Ne types by no means dominate, statistically, this subforum. Considering the purported number of Ne types on this forum, they are actually surprisingly rare to show up here.. quite rare, actually, and I am not basing this off of my assessment, but the type that is typically agreed upon in the end.

I don't mean to be contrary, but I question your reasoning.


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## Alaya (Nov 11, 2009)

zazara said:


> Do you see Se or Si as a possibility though?


In your OP, I could see some Si but subservient to Ne, not the reverse which is why I think you're an Ne user. From what I understood from your posts, you were not really interested in the experiences for their sake, but the meaning you got from those experiences, which demonstrates an intuitive preference, and not a sensing. For example, this quote:



> Okay that doesn't count. I know another time.. I went to a free small-ish rock concert at an abandoned church. It was amazing. I was in the front row and I swear my ear drums were about to pop, but none of that mattered. I didn't even hear this band before, but I fell in love right away. I got to talk to the band for awhile afterwords as well. Everything felt so magical at that moment, like I was dreaming. I don't remember the details at all, but that night was one of the most fun nights I had in my life.


You mention how you were not really interested in the details about the event(inferior Si) nor in the raw experience of the event(shadow Se) but rather, it was the overall meaning that the event made you feel. It touched upon something important in your life.


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## idoh (Oct 24, 2013)

arkigos said:


> ...and that's the thing. Yes, N should be most of what you do. The majority of what you discuss should be about things you cannot picture in your mind or touch with your hand. Ideas, concepts, the nature of the thing.
> 
> Then comes the inevitable rebuttal, "Well, I think about ideas, concepts, the nature of things...". Yes, but I think about physical things. It's gotten into our heads somewhere that only N types do N and only S types do S. Well, we know that N types do S. I talk about stuff. I share interesting anecdotes, I compare faces, I like to .. I don't know... experience things. Sure.
> 
> ...


I am confused. an enfp looks at a mouse and doesn't see a mouse? what else do they see see? Omg It's A Fuzzy UFO From MARS!!! if someone sees a mouse and cannot recognize it as a mouse, isn't there is something wrong with them? if you point out one ENFP on this forum who lives in a constant world of "symbols", where a TV is not just a TV, where the cheese in their refrigerator has to symbolize the struggles of their life, I guess I can believe you. until then, I don't see how someone can function properly in life if they don't even know what it is.

we live in a sensing world, so if you want to find any hardcore intuitives like you described you'd be hard pressed. everyone is going to talk about sensor things. do you know what happens if elementary school kids try to talk about philosophy? they get bullied. do you think they would really want to talk about it again? no. they'd be into 'S' stuff because they're smart and they've adapted :dry:

yes sensing and intuition are 'perceiving functions'. but if there's no pattern to perceive, nothing is going to happen. there is nothing special behind a couch after you've seen 100 in your life.  intuition recognizes patterns _when patterns are there_.

or maybe I'm wrong! tell me, what do you see when you open your refrigerator every morning?


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

Gnothi Seauton said:


> In your OP, I could see some Si but subservient to Ne, not the reverse which is why I think you're an Ne user. From what I understood from your posts, you were not really interested in the experiences for their sake, but the meaning you got from those experiences, which demonstrates an intuitive preference, and not a sensing. For example, this quote:
> 
> You mention how you were not really interested in the details about the event(inferior Si) nor in the raw experience of the event(shadow Se) but rather, it was the overall meaning that the event made you feel. It touched upon something important in your life.


Yeah, the importance or an affect an experience had on my life matters much than the experience in itself. I think that also relates to what I said about liking to hear people's life stories. I don't look for the details and all the fun stuff they experienced, but the morals that come out of those experiences. 

Similar to fairy tales in a way. Though I'm assuming it's not that "normal" to ask someone to tell you a fairy tale anymore in this time and age. Ah, if only I was 5 again.. those were the days.


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## Psychopomp (Oct 3, 2012)

idoh said:


> I am confused. an enfp looks at a mouse and doesn't see a mouse? what else do they see see? Omg It's A Fuzzy UFO From MARS!!! if someone sees a mouse and cannot recognize it as a mouse, isn't there is something wrong with them? if you point out one ENFP on this forum who lives in a constant world of "symbols", where a TV is not just a TV, where the cheese in their refrigerator has to symbolize the struggles of their life, I guess I can believe you. until then, I don't see how someone can function properly in life if they don't even know what it is.
> 
> we live in a sensing world, so if you want to find any hardcore intuitives like you described you'd be hard pressed. everyone is going to talk about sensor things. do you know what happens if elementary school kids try to talk about philosophy? they get bullied. do you think they would really want to talk about it again? no. they'd be into 'S' stuff because they're smart and they've adapted :dry:
> 
> ...


Exactly. You make my very point. No ENFP lives in a world of just symbols. Think about that. They couldn't exist. 

So, why do we think that an ESFP lives in a world devoid of them? We undercut ourselves. 

Everyone looks at a TV and sees both what it is and what it symbolizes. For an ENFP, the symbol takes strong precedence over the reality, and for ESFP vice versa. 

You ask someone "What is a TV?" - the N-oriented answer is "My fathers favorite child" and the S-oriented answer is "Where I watched X, Y, and Z shows."

This is the trouble with stark dichotomies, there are none, BUT... An Ne dom will strongly orient towards the symbolism. 

In the case of the mouse.... the ENFP who saw it saw a mouse... but they also saw a mother, a desperate survivor, our inclination to fear the "other", etc. Ne sees the conceptual 'possibilities' or possible symbols of the mouse MORE than it sees a mouse. 

Everyone sees both, I can only assume.

EDIT: From an ENFP I talked to today. They met an old homeless woman and walked with them. They walk away thinking that it was someone who had once been them, a mirrored reflection crying "you could be me, you could be me" as they run away in fear at facing the cruel vicissitudes of fate. They saw a homeless woman, but the symbolism overlayed it heavily and took precedence.


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

idoh said:


> do you know what happens if elementary school kids try to talk about philosophy? they get bullied. do you think they would really want to talk about it again? no. they'd be into 'S' stuff because they're smart and they've adapted :dry:


Elementary school was a cold, horribly cruel place.. :sad:


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## RentalBlackout (Aug 28, 2013)

No doubt your Fi is pretty strong, we just need to know what it is paired with, Se or Ne?

In another thread, PaladinX posted Jung's comparisons between Se and Ne.

About the four different types of functions;


> _These four functional types correspond to the obvious means by which consciousness obtains its orientation to experience. _*Sensation (i.e. sense perception) tells us that something exists; thinking tells you what it is; feeling tells you whether it is agreeable or not; and intuition tells you whence it comes and where it is going.*


About Ne vs Se


> _Hence, for intuition really to become paramount, sensation must to a large extent be suppressed. I am now speaking of sensation as the simple and direct sense-reaction, an almost definite physiological and psychic datum. This must be expressly established beforehand, because, if I ask the intuitive how he is orientated, he will speak of things which are quite indistinguishable from sense-perceptions. Frequently he will even make use of the term 'sensation'. He actually has sensations, but he is not guided by them per se, merely using them as directing-points for his distant vision. They are selected by unconscious expectation. Not the strongest sensation, in the physiological sense, obtains the crucial value, but any sensation whatsoever whose value happens to become considerably enhanced by reason of the intuitive's unconscious attitude. In this way it may eventually attain the leading position, appearing to the intuitive's consciousness indistinguishable from a pure sensation. But actually it is not so._
> 
> _Just as extraverted sensation strives to reach the highest pitch of actuality, because only thus can the appearance of a complete life be created, so intuition tries to encompass the greatest possibilities, since only through the awareness of possibilities is intuition fullysatisfied. Intuition seeks to discover possibilities in the objective situation; hence as a mere tributary function (viz. when not in the position of priority) it is also the instrument which, in the presence of a hopelessly blocked situation, works automatically towards the issue, which no other function could discover. Where intuition has the priority, every ordinary situation in life seems like a closed room, which intuition has to open. It is constantly seeking outlets and fresh possibilities in external life. In a very short time every actual situation becomes a prison to the intuitive; it burdens him like a chain, prompting a compelling need for solution._


Also, PaladinX quoted monemi in another thread about this matter, which I found to be very simplistic yet incredibly comprehensive.

http://personalitycafe.com/cognitiv...ion-definitions-perception-2.html#post4537488

Perhaps this would help =D


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## Alaya (Nov 11, 2009)

arkigos said:


> That word, 'possibilities' has undercut the nature of Ne so thoroughly in the vernacular of this community.


How so?



> In my experience, Ne types tend to have the least difficulty finding their type...


My experience has been the reverse, actually. Ne is a divergent function, which extrapolates ideas and relationships that changes the sensory perception of such phenomena. My observation has been that Ne types want to keep absorbing information to refine their judging function(Fi/Ti) in order to create a stable and consistent system of values. The more information they have about these relationships and patterns in the environment, the more fleshed out their judging function can become and the better their framework for making decisions.

In other words, Ne types take longer to consider their type due to their inner value judgment that needs a more precise and refined method of making decisions. 



> Ne types by no means dominate, statistically, this subforum. Considering the purported number of Ne types on this forum, they are actually surprisingly rare to show up here.. quite rare, actually, and I am not basing this off of my assessment, but the type that is typically agreed upon in the end.


I haven't seen those statistics myself. However, I question on the accuracy of those statistics since the type that is "typically agreed upon in the end" may also be inaccurate. There is no objective way of determining their actual type, even if it was consensual.


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## idoh (Oct 24, 2013)

arkigos said:


> Exactly. You make my very point. No ENFP lives in a world of just symbols. Think about that. They couldn't exist.
> 
> So, why do we think that an ESFP lives in a world devoid of them? We undercut ourselves.
> 
> ...


oh, _that's_ what you meant. the symbolism you keep talking about is really just creativity, isn't it? the 'S' you gave sounds like an 'N' answer though. wouldn't an 'S' answer be something like "a black box used to broadcast shows"?

you are right, but I would guess that 'S' is more comfortable in reality. so when they are describing a TV, they are going to _describe it_

but an 'N', they are more comfortable describing it by how its used, what it means to them, etc. they would think in terms of pictures and have trouble just describing a TV when, like you said, they don't pay as much attention to the actual TV in the first place.

about the mouse example, that is completely different. I mean, first they see it is a mouse, and _then_ their mind jumps around going in all directions like why it's there, what it is, its background... 
now, an 'S' would first see that it's a mouse and then start paying attention to its fuzziness, the fur, the features of it, right?

because intuition/sensing can both interfere with each other, but just like how one "sees the conceptual 'possibilities' or possible symbols of the mouse MORE than it sees a mouse" (your own logic), the other has to see the details, the reality, more than the possibilities. 

and that would be the final difference between N/S?


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

RentalBlackout said:


> No doubt your Fi is pretty strong, we just need to know what it is paired with, Se or Ne?
> 
> Perhaps this would help =D


Thank you! That link helped a lot. I believe I use Ne then since I relate much more to the Ne side of that comparison.


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## Psychopomp (Oct 3, 2012)

Gnothi Seauton said:


> How so?


Because there are so many ways in which the word can be used.. yet the simple invocation of it in any context is seen as Ne. 



Gnothi Seauton said:


> My experience has been the reverse, actually. Ne is a divergent function, which extrapolates ideas and relationships that changes the sensory perception of such phenomena. My observation has been that Ne types want to keep* absorbing information* to refine their judging function(Fi/Ti) in order to create a stable and consistent system of values. The more information they have about these relationships and patterns in the environment, the more fleshed out their judging function can become and the better their framework for making decisions.


While it is true that more info is helpful to an N function working well, this is true of Ni as well... but both Ni and Ne deprioritize information... information is S. N is intuition, which counters information. Trust me. TRUST ME. Ne does not work in information. Ne doms act notoriously without information. I am an Ne aux and information, even for me, takes a back seat to intuition.... really, the dichotomy might be best expressed as intuition vs information.. rather than sensing. 

If you think that Ne deals in information, you are all sorts of wrong. 



Gnothi Seauton said:


> In other words, Ne types take longer to consider their type due to their inner value judgment that needs a more precise and refined method of making decisions.


But, Ne very quickly is able to intuit what Ne is in its concept. Once an Ne comprehends Ne, they know they are it. 



Gnothi Seauton said:


> I haven't seen those statistics myself. However, I question on the accuracy of those statistics since the type that is "typically agreed upon in the end" may be also inaccurate. There is no objective way of determining their actual type, even if it was consensual.


There's nothing better, sadly... it's better than your impressions or mine. Check it out yourself. 


Anyway, if you characterize Ne as anything other than focus on archetype and symbolism, you are mistaken. 

For example, you said that @zazara's interaction with the concert dealt with it's 'meaning', but actually that is more oriented towards Fi... personal valuing. It was not Ne over Se, but Fi over Se. There was an N aspect to it, sure, but that could indeed be better explained with Fi/Ni deprioritizing Se. 

This whole 'remembering details' thing is peculiar to me too. I remember details just fine, and I am sure that ENFP I mentioned with the homeless woman could describe her fine and remember what happened. Ask an ISFP about the last concert they went to and then ask an INFP... you'll probably get a relatively similar recollection of detail. 



idoh said:


> oh, _that's_ what you meant. the symbolism you keep talking about is really just creativity, isn't it? the 'S' you gave sounds like an 'N' answer though. wouldn't an 'S' answer be something like "a black box used to broadcast shows"?


Find me someone who answers that way. Nobody does. That's overextended theory getting the best of us. 



idoh said:


> you are right, but I would guess that 'S' is more comfortable in reality. so when they are describing a TV, they are going to _describe it_


_
_
They will talk about their experience with it, or what aspects of it they value. Their favorite show. They might wax poetic and talk about what it means to their family. Etc. 



idoh said:


> but an 'N', they are more comfortable describing it by how its used, what it means to them, etc. they would think in terms of pictures and have trouble just describing a TV when, like you said, they don't pay as much attention to the actual TV in the first place.


No. Symbolism, archetype, metaphor. None of those things you said. 'What it means to them' for example, is F. 



idoh said:


> about the mouse example, that is completely different :tongue: I mean, first they see it is a mouse, and _then_ their mind jumps around going in all directions like why it's there, what it is, its background...
> now, an 'S' would first see that it's a mouse and then start paying attention to its fuzziness, the fur, the features of it, right?


Maybe. I expect most S types would just think of it as a mouse... and what they associate mouses with. This intense detail thing is weird. Ask an ESFP to recall the intricate details of the last mouse they saw. They won't blow you away. 



idoh said:


> because intuition/sensing can both interfere with each other, but just like how one "sees the conceptual 'possibilities' or possible symbols of the mouse MORE than it sees a mouse" (your own logic), the other has to see the details, the reality, more than the possibilities.


Right.



idoh said:


> and that would be the final difference between N/S


The essential difference, yes.


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

Gnothi Seauton said:


> My observation has been that Ne types want to keep absorbing information to refine their judging function(Fi/Ti) in order to create a stable and consistent system of values. The more information they have about these relationships and patterns in the environment, the more fleshed out their judging function can become and the better their framework for making decisions.
> 
> In other words, Ne types take longer to consider their type due to their inner value judgment that needs a more precise and refined method of making decisions.


This makes _a lot_ of sense to me.


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

Halcyon said:


> 42!


I expected that..


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## Halcyon (Jun 21, 2013)

zazara said:


> I expected that..


:tongue:


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

Halcyon said:


> :tongue:


I'll stick with my gut instinct and say I'm an ENFP.


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## pretense (Jan 2, 2013)

zazara said:


> I'll stick with my gut instinct and say I'm an ENFP.


I'm awake and bored. 

Tell me about your gut instinct. What is it?


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

consciousness said:


> I'm awake and bored.


Doesn't matter to me.


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

Nevermind, INFP is starting to make more sense to me. 

I definitely use Fi the most.


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

I remember the first time I ever took the test in 9th grade. I got ENFP along with the class clown at the time who seemed like the total polar opposite of me, the class thought it was funny, and my teacher was like, "Are you _sure_ you're not an introvert? " 

I felt insulted for some reason and stubbornly clung to my result for awhile without even thinking about it just because I didn't want to prove everyone else right. 

"They don't know me. No one knows me." 

It took forever to figure out that.. "I don't know me."

That's when I started looking into MBTI online.


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