# The gently honest mistype revelation thread (MBT edition)



## Jeffrei (Aug 23, 2016)

I noticed this was a thing in the enneagram forum, but not a thing in the Myers Briggs forum. So... tada!

If a person gives their permission on this thread then you can go ahead and gently inform them if you think they are mistyped. But that is only if they give *permission*.

So go for it! :kitteh:


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## Baracuda902 (Mar 26, 2017)

Try and retype be boys. I'm waiting.


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## Mr Castelo (May 28, 2017)

I don't know if this is going to work, people seem more eager to retype people on the Enneagram subforum than here, but I like the idea (also, I give my permission).


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## Jeffrei (Aug 23, 2016)

Mr. Castelo said:


> I don't know if this is going to work, people seem more eager to retype people on the Enneagram subforum than here, but I like the idea (also, I give my permission).


Yeah, I was thinking the same thing, but I figured it would be better to ether try and succeed or try and remove all doubt.

I was honestly expecting it to at least turn into a list of people giving permission. XD


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## Kaioken (Mar 4, 2017)

Well yeah go for it with me but how do you want to do that


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## TalNFJ (May 5, 2017)

Kaioken said:


> Well yeah go for it with me but how do you want to do that


Yeah it sounds fun but I don't really understand how we can infer if someone is mistyped, the only information we have is their username, avatar and a text passage. I think we need more than that lol.


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## Jeffrei (Aug 23, 2016)

TalNFJ said:


> Yeah it sounds fun but I don't really understand how we can infer if someone is mistyped, the only information we have is their username, avatar and a text passage. I think we need more than that lol.


Well the idea is if you see a PerC user that seems to be mistyped you can talk with them about it here (assuming they give permission).


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## Grandmaster Yoda (Jan 18, 2014)

Fight me. I am unable to fail.


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## DOGSOUP (Jan 29, 2016)

TalNFJ said:


> Yeah it sounds fun but I don't really understand how we can infer if someone is mistyped, the only information we have is their username, avatar and a text passage. I think we need more than that lol.


Either you have to know the person_ or_ you can go through their forum latest forum posts quite easily if there seems to be a blatantly obvious mistype going on... and I noticed people on the enneagram forum gave links to their questionnaires too, so that helps (especially if there are several so you have easier acces to all the data).



Grandmaster Yoda said:


> Fight me. I am unable to fail.


You cannot possibly be an introvert :crazy: Plz join us ENXXs asap.


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## Grandmaster Yoda (Jan 18, 2014)

DOGSOUP said:


> Either you have to know the person_ or_ you can go through their forum latest forum posts quite easily if there seems to be a blatantly obvious mistype going on... and I noticed people on the enneagram forum gave links to their questionnaires too, so that helps (especially if there are several so you have easier acces to all the data).
> 
> 
> 
> You cannot possibly be an introvert :crazy: Plz join us ENXXs asap.


Extrovert? I'm typing this under a blanket behind two locked doors.


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## navi__x3 (May 20, 2017)

Grandmaster Yoda said:


> Extrovert? I'm typing this under a blanket behind two locked doors.


100,000,000% you're INTP lol just based on your humor alone... This means you are my supervisor in socionics :ninja:


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## DOGSOUP (Jan 29, 2016)

Grandmaster Yoda said:


> Extrovert? I'm typing this under a blanket behind two locked doors.


Omg same?! "Because one locked door just isn't enough."



navi__x3 said:


> 100,000,000% you're INTP lol just based on your humor alone... This means you are my supervisor in socionics :ninja:


No no Yoda is ENTP aka my benefactor in Socionics.


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## navi__x3 (May 20, 2017)

DOGSOUP said:


> Omg same?! "Because one locked door just isn't enough."
> 
> 
> 
> No no Yoda is ENTP aka my benefactor in Socionics.


Well I think that's wishful thinking! :angel:

... It seems you and I are quasi-identical and are likely to be in an argumentative relationship according to socionics...

:jupiter:


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## Kaioken (Mar 4, 2017)

Ok if someone is up for it serve as a guinea pig, ask me some questions I guess, or do I have to look for a questionnaire and put it here?


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## Krayfish (Nov 3, 2015)

Hey I'm always mistyped, so if anyone has any ideas for me (or I happen to put down a type again and it's wrong), I permit anyone to tell me where I went wrong.


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

Shoot I give permission 

So far I didn't see anyone to refute
(Maybe the listed ENTJ with the typo in one sentence, urm but coulda just been in a hurry and had a typo)


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## Jaune (Jul 11, 2013)

I give permission.


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## TornadicX (Jan 7, 2015)

TalNFJ said:


> Yeah it sounds fun but I don't really understand how we can infer if someone is mistyped, the only information we have is their username, avatar and a text passage. I think we need more than that lol.


This was my initial thought. It is already hard to type strangers in the real world because a lot of factors come into play such as mental health issues, upbringing, and culture. So, how much harder would it be over the internet? I don't really engage in _serious_ typing of strangers. However, if this is just for fun and no arguments get started, it will be cool.


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## Krayfish (Nov 3, 2015)

Kaioken said:


> Ok if someone is up for it serve as a guinea pig, ask me some questions I guess, or do I have to look for a questionnaire and put it here?


For the sake of jump starting the thread, I'll ask you some questions (*anyone is welcome to answer them/interpret Kaioken's answers*)

1) Is there any uncertainty regarding how you are currently typed? Why/Why not? What other types do you feel could be an option.

2) Describe something you feel strongly about. It could be a like, dislike, ect ect. Why do you feel strongly about this?

3) What type of people are you drawn to? What type of people are you repulsed by? Why?

4) Choose one of the following prompts to answer; a) What is your current career path and what made you choose it? b) What is your current career and why/why don't you enjoy it? c) What would be your ideal job and why?

5) Role Play: You are provided with small bottle filled with water from the fountain of youth. The water will give whoever drinks of it immortality and resistance to physical injury/superhuman healing. There is only enough water for one person. What will you do with it and why?

6) What kind of people do you admire and why? You can give examples if you so choose, but please be sure to explain them for those who aren't familiar with it.


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## Grandmaster Yoda (Jan 18, 2014)

navi__x3 said:


> 100,000,000% you're INTP lol just based on your humor alone... This means you are my supervisor in socionics :ninja:


Supervise as in watch over others for security, possibly. Supervise as in direct others tasks. Depends. But an ENFP may be the best bet for someone to watch for security purposes.


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## navi__x3 (May 20, 2017)

Krayfish said:


> HAH I have so many type me threads it's disgusting. I've always got pegged Si-Ne and Ti-Fe until my second to last one where a couple people suggested ENFP. My most recent one is pretty detailic Can I please have help? I'm hopeless when it comes to typing A guy on reddedit said "definitely Ti dom" and @Turi suggested INFP. I think there is a good chance I use Fi because I can make a good case for tet Te, but I don't resonate with Fi (maybe that's my own personal bias though). I don't know, my mom still thinks I'm an ENTP 713 sp/sx. I'd be open to answering questions if anyone comes up with any good ones though


Hm. Why don't you think ENFP is correct?
I feel the same way about Fi. I see it as a hindrance more often than not. Te is my favorite of my functions currently (probably because it's primarily developing right now in my 20's according to the jung theory of individuation)

I could see a Ne dom (esp Ne-Fi) being as confused as you are about type. I WAS like that. I posted like 5 threads on "What's my type?" and it wasn't til significantly after that, that I realized I'm ENFP. We have the highest potential to be the most introverted extroverts, if your reasoning has to do with you thinking you're introverted.

Stephen Colbert thinks he's an INFP, when he (IMO) obviously comes off as ENFP.... That's how ambiverted we are.

Also... in my type me threads I kept getting ISFJ, ENFJ and INFJ as answers from forum members. One person was certain I used Fe-Ti. My surveys always look like Fe but I don't _actually_ have it. haha. People have also typed me as INFP here and were very sure of it, but i'm certain i'm ENFP now.

Have you seen the "revisiting the types" series on YouTube? Have you watched the ENFP video? I watched that vs the INFP one and it struck me like a train.. I didn't relate to the INFP video at all and the ENFP one was me to a T. They're very informative and in depth.


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## jetser (Jan 6, 2016)

navi__x3 said:


> We have the highest potential to be the most introverted extroverts, if you're reasoning has to do with you thinking you're introverted.


I'd say that ENFPs come off as much introverted as ISFPs come off as extraverts.
Ne makes you look more introverted (and Se more extraverted) than you actually are.


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## navi__x3 (May 20, 2017)

jetser said:


> I'd say that ENFPs come off as much introverted as ISFPs come off as extraverts.
> Ne makes you look more introverted (and Se more extraverted) than you actually are.


Absolutely. My ENTP fiance thinks he's an introvert too but he's clearly not, to me.


@Krayfish I read over the survey you posted,
I really think (as a 9w1 ENFP myself) that you are most likely also ENFP. There's a lot of indication of caring about self improvement in so many areas of your life, Fi-Te and Te-Fi tend to be concerned with this the most, and see it as one of their core motivations in my experience.

Sorry if my review of your survey is hard to follow. I'm just responding to random points because I'm at work and I shouldn't be on here :laughing:

You mentioned you have a lot of energy generally, that's definitely linked to extroversion. 
_
"I don’t like extremism in any direction or close mindedness." _Perceiving dom. 100% my pet peeve too. 

I love Ouran host club!!! hahah. Haruhi is so cute.... Back to the topic at hand LOL 

_"I seem like a “nice and intelligent person” who is relatively stiff/prudish, but “passionate about their future” " _This is basically me LOL. I'm so prude  

_"I have a tendency to pause at random points/transition points in my sentences, especially during presentations, although I have a calm, nice to listen to sort of voice (or so I’m told). I won’t interrupted except if* I get excited*. I’m ok if people interrupt me except if it’s repetitive or what I’m saying is being completely ignored."_
Ne doms literally are powered by the feelings of boredom and excitement.  I think everyone pauses during presentations especially if they're not 100% prepared. I usually wing speeches so I pause a lot lol.

_"Not currently. I’m an artist and musician, so I am always trying to improve my drawing and musical skills. They are a means of expression, although difficult to actually share with others. I was part of a research class for three years and I enjoyed that because it let me set up my own research project and was sort of preparation for my future. I liked the presentation aspect as well, both aural and written. I’ll finish what I start if someone needs it or if it is for a grade, but not if I just feel like it. I have plenty of unfinished drawings in my sketchpad."_
Music sounds like F but that's not a good indicator. 
I think Fi has a harder time sharing their creative expressions because it becomes very personal to us.
xNFPs highly value creative freedom. And being able to set aside your wants to get stuff done to me indicates that your Fi and Te work closely together. The fact that you mention you don't finish drawings and such a lot or that it's a large part of you indicates Dom Ne/inf Si. In a similar manner I personally start learning many songs on piano but there are many I haven't finished. The library of songs I can play fully is half of what I can play the first half of. Does that make sense?

_"Oops, already answered that. I probably should have read the rest of the questions before I went on answering."_
100% this is such a Ne Dom response lol.

I mean.. You might be INFP, but I think you're ENFP based on your answers. I mean honestly there are twice as many ENFPs (8% of pop.) than INFPs (4% of pop.) so if you're confused ENFP is technically more likely.  

What do you think?


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## ricericebaby (Aug 18, 2017)

Permission is granted for clarifying if someone thinks I've missed something (although I don't believe I have).


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## Mr Castelo (May 28, 2017)

@Krayfish

I've read your thread and I agree that ENFP seems to fit you. My reasoning for that is: you seem to be an Intuitive who uses Ne (spending time thinking about storylines of alternate universes), you most likely has Te somewhere (likes researching things, gathering information, having intelligent discussions, etc.), and you seem to have a close balance between Thinking and Feeling (which means that is likely that you use those two functions in almost equal amount = auxiliar and tertiary).


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## DOGSOUP (Jan 29, 2016)

navi__x3 said:


> Well I think that's wishful thinking! :angel:
> 
> ... It seems you and I are quasi-identical and are likely to be in an argumentative relationship according to socionics...
> 
> :jupiter:


Damn. 'nuff said


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## navi__x3 (May 20, 2017)

DOGSOUP said:


> Damn. 'nuff said


Heheheh. :tongue:


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## brightflashes (Oct 27, 2015)

If anyone would like to provide evidence, with examples, of my type being anything other than INTJ, please PM me and we can talk about it.

I remain intensely skeptical that I'm mistyped, though. Went through a lot of work to get typed accurately and thoroughly.


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## Krayfish (Nov 3, 2015)

@navi__x3 Thank you so much for the detailed response! A lot of what you said makes a lot of sense, you pose good points. It's interesting to hear of another Fi user who's been typed as a Fe user. I generally have trouble seeing myself as a Fi user because my father is also an ENFP (yeah, *REALLY* stupid reason I know) and we are both incredibly different people. My dad doesn't have a good grasp of of his Fi, so most of my exposure to Fi has been relatively negative and he's also a 7w6 so/sp (738/9, debatably so/sx). Obviously, comparing people isn't a great way to type oneself, but I guess I haven't been able to get past that urge :/
@Mr. Castelo Thank you also for your input!

Unless anyone has any other points to make, after researching a bit more I'll probably go back to typing as ENFP


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## Paradigm (Feb 16, 2010)

Feel free to *mention* or *quote* me and question my type!

I sometimes wonder if I'm ISFP or not. And I (potentially) mistyped as INxP in the beginning.

Only condition: Don't use "you can't be INTJ/6w7 because you're 6w7/INTJ" or variations thereof as your argument.


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## GalaxyGazer (Apr 1, 2017)

Go ahead and tell me if you think I am mistyped. I have typed myself as INFP, ENFP, ISFJ, and INTP in the past, so finding out I'm wrong _again_ won't bother me. ISFP does feel like a good fit, but I still have some doubts, mainly because I have never had any close ISFP friends.

(But pls look at some of my posts before attempting to type me)


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## brightflashes (Oct 27, 2015)

@Paradigm I find you fit your type very well. As a fellow mistyped INXP, you helped me get on the right path to finding my own best fit type. I can't emphasize enough how important it was that I find my true type at that time in my life either. It really cleared up some confusion. I believe you're correctly typed both enneagram and MBTI.


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## navi__x3 (May 20, 2017)

Krayfish said:


> @navi__x3 Thank you so much for the detailed response! A lot of what you said makes a lot of sense, you pose good points. It's interesting to hear of another Fi user who's been typed as a Fe user. I generally have trouble seeing myself as a Fi user because my father is also an ENFP (yeah, *REALLY* stupid reason I know) and we are both incredibly different people. My dad doesn't have a good grasp of of his Fi, so most of my exposure to Fi has been relatively negative and he's also a 7w6 so/sp (738/9, debatably so/sx). Obviously, comparing people isn't a great way to type oneself, but I guess I haven't been able to get past that urge :/
> @Mr. Castelo Thank you also for your input!
> 
> Unless anyone has any other points to make, after researching a bit more I'll probably go back to typing as ENFP


Really, no problem at all. I don't know if I'm accurate (hey the ENFP Ti blind spot is real hahah) but it is what I think and I hope it helped at all!


It's not stupid! My uncle is ENFP and I am not like him at all. But he's very clearly the Ne subtype and I am totally the Fi subtype of ENFP.

I have a link to it in my signature, maybe you are a different subtype.


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## Turi (May 9, 2017)

brightflashes said:


> If anyone would like to provide evidence, with examples, of my type being anything other than INTJ, please PM me and we can talk about it.
> 
> I remain intensely skeptical that I'm mistyped, though. Went through a lot of work to get typed accurately and thoroughly.


You're one of a small group of forum members whos type I've never questioned.


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## Jeffrei (Aug 23, 2016)

SpaceMan said:


> Well is everyone capable of performing with each function at the same level? I don't think so - a person who is in the "grip" is using his inferior function more than his dom/aux -> Using more of a function does not == type, since the functions could be wrongly used. We call this "lacking in proper development". How the person uses a function is what matters.
> 
> My natural ability has always been to critique things ( Studying MSc E.E specializing Automation and Control Systems - control theory and a lot of kinematic modelling) and yet my social skills reflect a need for being relatable, and my desire to understand what is deep within reflects merely that I have Ti/Fe judging by my own objective measures. But does this really mean that I am a Ti? Because you could always reverse the perspective by explaining from a different angle:
> 
> ...


Sorry for my tardy response. The past few days have been.... busy. 

Basically what I am hearing from you is a valid point that you use both fairly frequently. Correct? You are right in saying that, but even "ambidextrous" people have a preference. If not they'd be debating on which hand to use and at some point it would just be more useful to create a preference (as seen with my younger sibling who was ambidextrous but choose to be right handed). However, ambidextairouty (probably just made up this word but bare with me) is a very rare thing that most of us won't ever deal with anyway. It's just an extreme example to show that we all have (or develop) a preference. So the art of typing ones self is not saying "I'm good at this but suck at this." It is actually recognizing that you are good at a host of things but also being able to point to your preference. 

It's going to be harder if you don't know yourself too well, but if you can identify what you default to without outside influences you can identify your type. Fair enough?


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## DOGSOUP (Jan 29, 2016)

Paradigm said:


> Feel free to *mention* or *quote* me and question my type!
> 
> I sometimes wonder if I'm ISFP or not. And I (potentially) mistyped as INxP in the beginning.
> 
> Only condition: Don't use "you can't be INTJ/6w7 because you're 6w7/INTJ" or variations thereof as your argument.


I've known an ISFP 6w7 (that Jungian Fi aw man) who used to test as an INTJ. Granted, she went through huge changes personality-wise since and is wayyy more people-oriented now than before. But like... I can see that type-confusion happening, especially with particularly cerebral and emotionally nuanced/subtle individuals. Is there any particular reason you wonder about this though?

I happen to think 6 goes well with NJ although many seem connect it to SJ instead. Idk why (ok I do know why but lol at their reasons).



Turi said:


> You're one of a small group of forum members whos type I've never questioned.


I hope you have questioned mine :crazy:


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## SpaceMan (Dec 11, 2014)

Jonneh said:


> Sorry for my tardy response. The past few days have been.... busy.


nah man, it's cool 



> It's going to be harder if you don't know yourself too well, but if you can identify what you default to without outside influences you can identify your type. Fair enough?


And see, here is the tricky part. How do I do this, whilst avoiding confirmation bias? I could for example claim to be one of the allegedly cool guys INTJ, ENTJ ...-> whilst evidence in my reasoning, writing style and perspective would suggest ESFJ (I still don't see why people hate esfj). But do you get my point?

This is the reason behind why I'm sort of outsourcing my typing.


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## Jeffrei (Aug 23, 2016)

SpaceMan said:


> nah man, it's cool
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm not sure that I do get your point. A preference is a bias. If it's a personal bias that you are afraid will cause you to chose the wrong type then I can suggest a few things.

1. Take a step back, look for the one you default to (typically what you are at home), and then just go with it reguardless of whatever reasoning you may have for the opposit.

2. Let other people type you and if the shoe fits wear it.

Really the only complicated part is as human beings we can rationalize whatever we want to (I could bring up a case for being an outgoing ISTJ if you gave me time to prepare). To help I suggest asking yourself these questions (please don't answer them here on the forum).

1. What am I afraid of?

2. What am I trying to hide?

3. What am I trying to prove?

This could help you navigate through the rationalizations that you've constructed and cut right to the heart of what's going on (if you let it).


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## Paradigm (Feb 16, 2010)

DOGSOUP said:


> I've known an ISFP 6w7 (that Jungian Fi aw man) who used to test as an INTJ. Granted, she went through huge changes personality-wise since and is wayyy more people-oriented now than before. But like... I can see that type-confusion happening, especially with particularly cerebral and emotionally nuanced/subtle individuals. Is there any particular reason you wonder about this though?


I never actually tested as either INTJ or ISFP. Maybe INTJ 1-2 times, but usually the results are INTP or INFP because I'm high on the P score. I typed / saw myself more in INFP than I ever did in INTP, so I stayed as that for a few years. But ultimately, I arrived at INTJ/ISFP by cognitive function theory by ruling out Ne/Si and learning a little bit of Socionics. 

But as for why I chose INTJ, it's because while I do definitely see myself as a Perceiver, it makes sense to me to be a _Perceiving-dominant_ (Ni). Then, it made sense why I keep typing at IN*x*P because Te/Fi is in the middle of my stacking, and the time I saw myself as Fi-dom correlated to both trauma (Ni-Fi "loop") and the development of Fi in age (late teens, early twenties).

However, I do recognize that I may be mistaken because my Te could be considered lacking or in the inferior position. In short (and inaccurate) terms, I feel like I went from developing Ni, to Fi, and only _now_ am I trying to build up Te more. I can relate to the Te-inferior descriptions; I don't always relate to Se-inferior descriptions, especially to the supposed coping mechanisms Se-inf is supposed to use (over-indulgence, over-eating). Then again, I'm not sure I relate to Se-aux at all, while Te-aux could fit, especially on my better days.

If I'm honest, while I have no trouble seeing Fi, Ni, Te in me in near-any order, the Se is the real confusion.



> I happen to think 6 goes well with NJ although many seem connect it to SJ instead. Idk why (ok I do know why but lol at their reasons).


People rarely question NJ + 6, but they often "question" the w7. Apparently to them, I must be a 6w5 because... reasons -__- As someone who prefers the Enneagram a great deal more, it annoys me.


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## SpaceMan (Dec 11, 2014)

Jonneh said:


> I'm not sure that I do get your point. A preference is a bias. If it's a personal bias that you are afraid will cause you to chose the wrong type then I can suggest a few things.


No, a preference is not a bias. A bias implies a skewed measurement, a preference implies choice. If the theory is correct -> you don't have a choice in choosing your MBTI type. And who says I'm afraid? I' simply putting things into perspective as to why I am doubting.

It's not a matter of deciding. It's a matter of accuracy - otherwise it's wishful thinking.

Anyway, we could continue this via PM if you're eager to continue this discussion ? I have a feeling that this discussion is going off topic.


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## ENIGMA2019 (Jun 1, 2015)

Ozymandias116 said:


> I give my permission if anyone feel that they are up for it.


I have read through some of your posts. Originally, I thought ENTX but, now I am leaning more towards INTJ operating a little in some of your shadow functions. Or maybe it is enneagram related.


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## shazam (Oct 18, 2015)

Me?


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## Ozymandias116 (Nov 24, 2016)

ENIGMA15 said:


> I have read through some of your posts. Originally, I thought ENTX but, now I am leaning more towards INTJ operating a little in some of your shadow functions. Or maybe it is enneagram related.


Interesting, I got INTJ the first time I did a MBTI-test (16personalities) so it certainly is possible. When you talk about operating in my shadow functions, why do you think that and could you give some concrete examples? It would be interesting to hear why you think so.


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## DOGSOUP (Jan 29, 2016)

Grandmaster Yoda said:


> Then I went on socionics forum to find out my type there. Same guy, he's like "You're obviously Ti-Ne." It's disappointing, you come here for the thrill of being typed and then everybody shuts you down by stating what's obvious to everyone else. Creating a ghost account is not acceptable so my days of being typed or mistyped or called mistyped are likely over.


Never trust an INTJ tho. _Nothing_ should be that "obvious" to a Ni dominant.


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## Grandmaster Yoda (Jan 18, 2014)

DOGSOUP said:


> Never trust an INTJ tho. _Nothing_ should be that "obvious" to a Ni dominant.


Nonsense. Everything is obvious to Te/Se types. Just look at those ESTJs.


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## Kaioken (Mar 4, 2017)

ENIGMA15 said:


> It is ok *pats Kaioken on the head* It is a phrase. Fine wine improves with time. Also, I think you meant to say, you are unable to distinguish the differences. : )
> 
> Speaking of boxes...every time you make statements like~ " I hope you got to be a great cheerleader, and a popular girl" or " females are naturally more emotional" You are using the dreaded boxes you seem to not care for ; )


Yeah you definitely have a valid point with that last sentence, but I was using a general statement, not trying to pinpoint your self.
@DOGSOUP What do online tests usually give you ? Have you tried cognitive functions test ?


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## DOGSOUP (Jan 29, 2016)

Grandmaster Yoda said:


> Nonsense. Everything is obvious to Te/Se types. Just look at those ESTJs.


But ESTJs are especially particular in that sense and a different thing entirely. Unless if you're subtly trying to retype that INTJ of yours as an ESTJ 



Kaioken said:


> What do online tests usually give you ? Have you tried cognitive functions test ?


Oh yeah I've tested as an INTJ, ENTP, ENFP and ENXJ most recently (which may be accurate, or maybe I just like that result for some reason; though I'm atm doubting both dominant extroverted judging function _and_ tert Se as well hehe).

Cognitive functions tests have resulted in NTP and NFJ if I remember correcty (Ne, Ti, Ni mostly? Fe wasn't too emphasized but wasn't weak either.)


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## Kaioken (Mar 4, 2017)

@DOGSOUP
Well that's a lot of results. Have you tried socionics?
Well I guess it would be at least N for you. INTP have very weak Fe while ENFJ use it as a primary function. Usually it shouldn't become that complicated, you could ponder about 2 types but that's it. How old are you, Jung/MB is pretty futile if you are too young.


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## ondes Martenot (Sep 27, 2016)

Go ahead :crazy:


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## Grandmaster Yoda (Jan 18, 2014)

DOGSOUP said:


> But ESTJs are especially particular in that sense and a different thing entirely. Unless if you're subtly trying to retype that INTJ of yours as an ESTJ
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I tricked you because ESTJs don't use Se as much as they use Si. Think about it.


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## DOGSOUP (Jan 29, 2016)

Grandmaster Yoda said:


> I tricked you because ESTJs don't use Se as much as they use Si. Think about it.


"I can't think what I can't feel", said a Fe dom indignantly



Kaioken said:


> @DOGSOUP
> Well that's a lot of results. Have you tried socionics?
> Well I guess it would be at least N for you. INTP have very weak Fe while ENFJ use it as a primary function. Usually it shouldn't become that complicated, you could ponder about 2 types but that's it. How old are you, Jung/MB is pretty futile if you are too young.


I shouldn't be too jung for typology, I'm past my teens.

I did Socionics a couple of times, never recovered, and some people typed me as EIE there but they too might have tricked me


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## Grandmaster Yoda (Jan 18, 2014)

DOGSOUP said:


> "I can't think what I can't feel", said a Fe dom indignantly
> 
> 
> I shouldn't be too jung for typology, I'm past my teens.
> ...


We got a straggler over here. I recommend PerC MBTI technicians for further investigation into your typing challenges. Hmm perhaps that INTJ would suit you well.


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## DOGSOUP (Jan 29, 2016)

Grandmaster Yoda said:


> We got a straggler over here. I recommend PerC MBTI technicians for further investigation into your typing challenges. Hmm perhaps that INTJ would suit you well.


Three years into typology and my original test result was right all along
Damn


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## Asd456 (Jul 25, 2017)

DOGSOUP said:


> Three years into typology and my original test result was right all along
> Damn


Is there a questionnaire to fill out (something similar to the enneagram one)? What do you think about the quadras and how you fit into each one? I think that's a good place to start.


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## Kaioken (Mar 4, 2017)

DOGSOUP said:


> Three years into typology and my original test result was right all along
> Damn


I don't see how you could be INTJ if you ever typed ENFJ.
My type became much more clear when I turned 19-20. Not so long ago, I would have typed myself as INTP.


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## Witch of Oreo (Jun 23, 2014)

Am I mistyped?


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## Turi (May 9, 2017)

Witch of Oreo said:


> Am I mistyped?


Do you care?
What does being typed accurately mean to you?


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## Witch of Oreo (Jun 23, 2014)

Turi said:


> Do you care?
> What does being typed accurately mean to you?


Not really. Just playing with letters.


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## DOGSOUP (Jan 29, 2016)

Asd456 said:


> Is there a questionnaire to fill out (something similar to the enneagram one)? What do you think about the quadras and how you fit into each one? I think that's a good place to start.


Thanks, the latest one I did was Philosophical 40Q which is still pretty much up to date as to how I view things, maybe some cognition there too. And the more of Socionics Q tho I'm a bit embarrassed by some of the answers now lol.

Rambling~ can't believe I wrote this.

* *





Tbh I was fine with being typed as beta quadra (I kinda figured I value a focus on shared ideology and expression of values, plus with interest in figuring out how things are connected to one another, fields of influence, how things are changing if they do change at all, how to establish things etc. and the kind of systematic analysis of reality and structures Ti does before I got into Socionics, but my problem is I simply do not trust my understanding to be sure of this on my own and I don't want to ask those people again in fear of annoying them). And another thing, I'm wondering if being a E6 makes me seem more "thinker-like", allergic to bullshit or reserved so I won't fit all the expected behaviors MBTI people set for ENFJ. Like someone who knows me well said he doesn't really see the emphasis on "ethics of emotion" but says I'm more drawn to reason and studying things from a distance, although I do have plenty of emotional warmth/reactivity/pressure too when something or someone provokes it 

As to Alpha quadra, I believe that the Fe paired with Si would socialize for the sake of socializing. Erm. More focus on the present experience and enjoyment. Whereas I tend to end up around people with whom to rant about various topics. It's less about uplifting togetherness and more like shared consern about some issue or problem, or working for a project or something. But I suppose it's still uplifting social activity so I don't know if there's really a difference.

Gamma quadra seems to have an interest to relations and power, which I can relate to. Obviously I like gathering information about how things are going to develop, but it's more out of general social or theoretical interest or related to my studies rather than to utilize that knowledge for a purpose of reaching some specific goal.

I don't really know about Delta, I think it's more focused on personal potential and fullfillment in a way I never considered for me. And if I'm right about Fi, it leaves a lot unexpressed in a way that just leaves me cold. Like a Fi type would describe how they see inner warmth in it and Fe is just intense posing; whereas I see Fe as engaging and Fi as essentially unreachable or too intimate.






Kaioken said:


> I don't see how you could be INTJ if you ever typed ENFJ.
> My type became much more clear when I turned 19-20. Not so long ago, I would have typed myself as INTP.


Considering there are people on this site torn between types that have no letters in common, I have things going pretty well for me ^^


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## Asd456 (Jul 25, 2017)

DOGSOUP said:


> Thanks, the latest one I did was Philosophical 40Q which is still pretty much up to date as to how I view things, maybe some cognition there too. And the more of Socionics Q tho I'm a bit embarrassed by some of the answers now lol.


Haha, I feel the same way with my old posts... ugh for the no delete button. From reading both, my first thought was either ENFJ or INFJ. You have developed Ni, and Ti. I also think you have Se mobilizing. I agree, your Fe is less noticeable; but you still talk about ethics in terms of an abstract concept of importance. Enneagram could contribute to this, and definitions of Fe when comparing MBTI and Socionics. The way I see it, Fe is the emotional atmosphere and the exchange of emotional states, expressions, moods, etc. Do you know about the Socionics subtypes? If you're ENFJ, maybe you're the ENFJ-Ni subtype. 



> Rambling~ can't believe I wrote this.
> 
> * *
> 
> ...



* *






Yes exactly, enneagram makes a huge difference, especially your stacking and subtype. If you're a type 6, definitely, your fixation is the head energy; despite being an ENFJ, your energy is mental. Honestly, MBTI sucks, it's inaccurate and contradicts a lot of jung's work. People cling to this four letter identity as if they're 100% defined by it; it's off-putting. For example, MBTI ENTJ is a weird hybrid of ESTP. I think you should try to learn the enneagram, Naranjo and Chestnut is a good start; and learning about the stacking. For example, I'm Sx/Sp; I'm definitely more introverted and not the stereotypical ENTJ. I have an INFP friend, a type 6w7; like you, she's more "thinker-like" as well. I thought she was INTJ at first too, (INFP with the demonstrative 4D Ni) but her Fi is strong, although her energy is 100% mental. I think enneagram is a big part of the puzzle.



> Gamma quadra seems to have an interest to relations and power, which I can relate to. Obviously I like gathering information about how things are going to develop, but it's more out of general social or theoretical interest or related to my studies rather than to utilize that knowledge for a purpose of reaching some specific goal.


Yeah, if you're ENFJ with mobilizing Se, there's definitely an interest in terms of power. I have it too. I want to exert power, but it's calculated for me. Ni-Se; I want to impact the future with force and power. Not sure if it's the same as you with Te as my leading you know, but I can relate to fixating on power. I value force of will - it's something I idealize, with an ESTP they don't idealize Se because it's just that - it's natural for them. 



> I don't really know about Delta, I think it's more focused on personal potential and fullfillment in a way I never considered for me. And if I'm right about Fi, it leaves a lot unexpressed in a way that just leaves me cold. Like a Fi type would describe how they see inner warmth in it and Fe is just intense posing; whereas I see Fe as engaging and Fi as essentially unreachable or too intimate.


Sometimes the hierarchical bullshit I see is annoying. Fi is internalized, and unexpressed; it's internalizing the emotion so it's more intimate and personal. Extreme Fe makes me uncomfortable, to be honest - it's like an obligation, or social role I have to fill that seems inauthentic. Anyway something I'm working on, my Fe is pretty terrible (I mean, I probably offended a bunch here already when I'm just being honest). 

I think the enneagram is more fulfilling, in my opinion because it presents room for growth and change; you learn about your defense mechanisms, hidden motivations, and fixations. Starting is tedious because there's a lot of contradictory information, for instance I think tritype is stupid, wing is just ok. My thinking is you should focus on your core type, your stacking, and subtype (Chestnut and Naranjo).


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## Reila (Jan 17, 2017)

Mr. Castelo said:


> @Krayfish @Kaioken
> 
> Okay, you both seem to not see Ne in me, and you both suggested ISTP as an alternative. You're both high Ne users, so I'm going to take your word for it, haha. But I really have a difficult time seeing high Se in myself, I don't relate to Sensing very much. Not because of Intuitive bias (I think), but because it really doesn't seem to fit me. My family is mostly composed of Sensors, and I'm very different from them, they live in the moment, whereas I live with my head in the clouds.
> 
> I'm going to accept INTJ as my type for now, but I'm still open to people who want to question it.


Have you considered INFJ? Or are you confident on being xxTx perhaps?

Se is the inferior function so it would make sense for you to not see a lot of it in yourself. You would also have access to Ti and Fe, just like INTP people have. Do you think you could have Ni as your dominant function? I am suggesting INFJ because I read somewhere that INTPs sometimes mistype as INFJ and you said you typed yourself as INTP in the past.

I am helping!


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## Turi (May 9, 2017)

Mr. Castelo said:


> @Krayfish @Kaioken
> 
> Okay, you both seem to not see Ne in me, and you both suggested ISTP as an alternative. You're both high Ne users, so I'm going to take your word for it, haha. But I really have a difficult time seeing high Se in myself, I don't relate to Sensing very much. Not because of Intuitive bias (I think), but because it really doesn't seem to fit me. My family is mostly composed of Sensors, and I'm very different from them, they live in the moment, whereas I live with my head in the clouds.
> 
> I'm going to accept INTJ as my type for now, but I'm still open to people who want to question it.


Yeah, I think INTJ is a solid fit - interesting T/F divide apparent in our conversation yesterday.

Te-Fi is readily apparent.

Si-Ne or Ni-Se, who knows, I'm leaning more towards Ni due to our talks of inferior Se.


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## Mr Castelo (May 28, 2017)

Reila Nimu said:


> Have you considered INFJ? Or are you confident on being xxTx perhaps?
> 
> Se is the inferior function so it would make sense for you to not see a lot of it in yourself. You would also have access to Ti and Fe, just like INTP people have. Do you think you could have Ni as your dominant function? I am suggesting INFJ because I read somewhere that INTPs sometimes mistype as INFJ and you said you typed yourself as INTP in the past.
> 
> I am helping!


To be honest, I haven't considered INFJ that much because I don't see an INFJ being so bad at Fe, lol. I'm terrible at creating harmony between people (at least in real life), I think that I'm an understanding person, but I'm not great at dealing with emotional matters, and I don't like to conform to people's feelings, and vice-versa. Overall, I think that I lack the focus on people that Fe users seem to have. I chatted with @Turi yesterday, and, like he mentioned, the T/F divide seemed to be apparent.

I don't have much trouble seeing myself as a Ni-dom, I think, but I also can see myself as a Ti-dom or maybe even Fi-dom. Using Si or any extraverted function as dominant is out of question for me.


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## Turi (May 9, 2017)

Mr. Castelo said:


> Overall, I think that I lack the focus on people that Fe users seem to have.


I think this is crucial, as it's representative of where a persons mind is, and where there overall interests tend to lie.


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## Krayfish (Nov 3, 2015)

Hey I'm back and am curious what inferior Te looks like from an IxFP perspective. I've read plenty of descriptions from various sources, and I still believe I'm missing the point. I'm still not 100% confident in typing ENFP and many have suggested INFP.


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## Turi (May 9, 2017)

Krayfish said:


> Hey I'm back and am curious what inferior Te looks like from an IxFP perspective. I've read plenty of descriptions from various sources, and I still believe I'm missing the point. I'm still not 100% confident in typing ENFP and many have suggested INFP.


Read "Was that really me?" by Naomi Quenck, it's in the Amazon shop, great read and covers inferior functions of all the types brilliantly - literally what the book is about.

It'll help you nail your inferior function beyond a doubt.


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## Mr Castelo (May 28, 2017)

Krayfish said:


> Hey I'm back and am curious what inferior Te looks like from an IxFP perspective. I've read plenty of descriptions from various sources, and I still believe I'm missing the point. I'm still not 100% confident in typing ENFP and many have suggested INFP.


I have an INFP friend, and I can tell you things that I perceive to be representative of inferior Te from my own experience with him. Basically, he has trouble planning things out and sticking to the plan, he doesn't like to take responsibility on things or being in charge of them, he has trouble following schedules, and he can also twist facts to fit in with his own values. He has kind of a "selective rationality", things make sense to him if they suit his tastes/preferences, and he has a more difficult time understanding rationally things that are out of this sphere (for example, if he's pro-choice, being pro-life won't make any "logical" sense to him, so he might see it as irrational even if it's not a matter of rationality; this is just an hypothetical example, though). Basically, anything that contradicts his values is viewed as irrational/illogical because his Fi controls his Te and repress it. ENFPs don't have much trouble with seeing things more as they are because Fi doesn't lead their lives, Ne does. Also, Ne does tend to be more open-minded than Fi in general, so they have a easier time seeing things from different perspectives, to the point of finding it difficult to stick with just one side.


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## Reila (Jan 17, 2017)

Krayfish said:


> Hey I'm back and am curious what inferior Te looks like from an IxFP perspective. I've read plenty of descriptions from various sources, and I still believe I'm missing the point. I'm still not 100% confident in typing ENFP and many have suggested INFP.


This might help.


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## Asd456 (Jul 25, 2017)

@Krayfish Are you familiar with Socionics? If you are, I won't link you to sources; if not, let me know. roud: Also, I find that a lot of people have trouble deciding the E/I because of Socionics subtypes - for instance, if you are ENFP-Fi subtype, you are more introverted. Analogously, if you are INFP-Ne subtype, you utilize Ne more. This happened to me as well before realizing my subtype, in addition to learning about my stacking (enneagram).




Mr. Castelo said:


> I'm still kind of questioning my type. I typed myself as an INTP in the past, but I've come to doubt my use of Ti-Ne.
> 
> As for Ti, I will admit that this is a function that I can't understand in a "practical" way, only conceptually. The only Ti-user that I know of is my dad (ESTP), and it's not even his dominant function. There are some aspects of Ti that I can relate to (like independent thinking), but others, not at all. I don't like learning stuff for the sake of learning, for example, if I'm going to learn something, there has to be a point. I can learn motivated by personal interest (such as learning more about a TV show that I like), but that's common human behaviour, I guess.


As an ENTJ, I recognize the Te, definitely; knowledge for practicality is Te related. If you find yourself relating to Ti, this is understandable if you are INTJ; in Socionics, INTJ's demonstrative function is Ti, 4D; translating to it is extremely strong, yet not valued at all as in you understand Ti, but prefer to use Te. Explains the INTP mistype.




> Concerning Si and Fe, I've never related very much to those two functions, so typing myself as an INTJ didn't change my perspective on my use of them very much. I thought that I have Fe because I enjoy harmony, but really... who doesn't? I always had crappy Si, so I won't even comment on that.


Yeah, if you're INTJ, you don't value Si and Fe.



> One of the reasons that I have to doubt my typing as an INTJ is because I'm lazy, and this really doesn't fit the image that people seem to have of the type. I plan things out, but many times I end up procrastinating due to a loss of motivation/interest. I enjoy planning, though, and I absolutely love it when I can execute my plans without fail (which is not that often). Part of me hates myself for being lazy, and that's why I'm incredibly self-critical. Despite this, I really have a pragmatic/entrepreneur mind, I don't like theorizing without putting things into practice (for most of the time), the problem is: I'm lazy.


An INTJ can definitely be lazy; if an INTJ is an enneagram type 9, this is true. You shouldn't think you're not INTJ just because of that. Pragmatism, planning things out, etc. correlates to the gamma quadra in Socionics (ENTJ, INTJ, ISFP, ESFP); if you identify with pragmatism, I think you're either ENTJ and INTJ, probably more INTJ. Hope that helps.


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## Mr Castelo (May 28, 2017)

Asd456 said:


> As an ENTJ, I recognize the Te, definitely; knowledge for practicality is Te related. If you find yourself relating to Ti, this is understandable if you are INTJ; in Socionics, INTJ's demonstrative function is Ti, 4D; translating to it is extremely strong, yet not valued at all as in you understand Ti, but prefer to use Te. Explains the INTP mistype.


I see. I don't know a lot about Socionics, but I've read about this "demonstrative function" before, so it does seem to make sense.



> An INTJ can definitely be lazy; if an INTJ is an enneagram type 9, this is true. You shouldn't think you're not INTJ just because of that. Pragmatism, planning things out, etc. correlates to the gamma quadra in Socionics (ENTJ, INTJ, ISFP, ESFP); if you identify with pragmatism, I think you're either ENTJ and INTJ, probably more INTJ. Hope that helps.


Yeah, I'm more inclined to believe that I'm an INTJ, ENTJ seems like a stretch for me, I don't rely on Te that much. Speaking of which, as an introvert, I feel like I use my extraverted function less than what I'm "supposed" to use (in this case, Te) as I get stuck in my head a lot. Do you think this has to do with being an INTJ-Ni subtype, like you pointed to Krayfish?

Anyway, I don't know a lot about the Enneagram too, I'm pretty skeptical of it. The types that I can relate to the most are 5, 9 and maybe 4 too. I initially typed myself as an 9 due to my laziness, but I don't think I agree with its core beliefs, like harmony and connecting with other people... I feel pretty "distant" from others, so it's kind of the opposite of what type 9 seems to be.


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## Krayfish (Nov 3, 2015)

Asd456 said:


> @Krayfish Are you familiar with Socionics? If you are, I won't link you to sources; if not, let me know. roud: Also, I find that a lot of people have trouble deciding the E/I because of Socionics subtypes - for instance, if you are ENFP-Fi subtype, you are more introverted. Analogously, if you are INFP-Ne subtype, you utilize Ne more. This happened to me as well before realizing my subtype, in addition to learning about my stacking (enneagram).


Yeah, I am familiar with it, but if you have some good links/sources that are reliable, please do share them, I'd be happy to read them. I was considering EII-Fi, but to be honest I don't really relate to the socionics version of Fi (currently I'm typing as ENFP in mbti and ILE-Ne in socionics, which is super contradictory and probably 100% incorrect, but I've yet to find a better solution). I've looked into reinin dichotomies as well, which seems to be just as accurate in identifying my type. I'm likely in a Si grip which isn't making this any easier to figure out. I'll probably end up figuring out I'm an EII-Fi or something later on, but I cannot seem to comfortably settle on a type as of now.


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## Asd456 (Jul 25, 2017)

Mr. Castelo said:


> Yeah, I'm more inclined to believe that I'm an INTJ, ENTJ seems like a stretch for me, I don't rely on Te that much. Speaking of which, as an introvert, I feel like I use my extraverted function less than what I'm "supposed" to use (in this case, Te) as I get stuck in my head a lot. Do you think this has to do with being an INTJ-Ni subtype, like you pointed to Krayfish?


Ni subtype is a valid possibility; also, if you find out your stacking (enneagram), I find that it helps as well. For instance, I'm ENTJ-Ni subtype and my stacking is Sx/Sp. Usually, there's a correlation in terms of So instinct last and more introversion; if you think you're Ni subtype, find out your stacking. I suspect perhaps Sx or Sp first if you think you're INTJ-Ni subtype. roud:



> Anyway, I don't know a lot about the Enneagram too, I'm pretty skeptical of it. The types that I can relate to the most are 5, 9 and maybe 4 too. I initially typed myself as an 9 due to my laziness, but I don't think I agree with its core beliefs, like harmony and connecting with other people... I feel pretty "distant" from others, so it's kind of the opposite of what type 9 seems to be.


This is a common mentality, actually, it is because of the massive amount of contradictory information regarding the different enneagram authors. However, if you stick to it, you basically weed out the irrelevant theories. It makes sense if you relate to 4, 5, 9 as they're part of the withdrawn triad. Actually, in terms of subtype and stacking, if you're a type 9 with Sp subtype, you're more introverted and reclusive (this is why stacking is relevant). It's broken down into 3 main triads; heart-image/shame, head-fear/anxiety, and body-anger. 
@Krayfish 

Socionics Types: EII-INFj Subtypes and Socionics Types: IEE-ENFp Subtypes

Hm, I really don't think you're ILE, to be honest. I think a good way to differentiate is to start with the quadras. Do you identify more with alpha, beta, gamma, or delta? Compared to the reinin dichotomies it's easier I think. Starting with the quadras helped me determine gamma; reinin dichotomies sort of correlates as well; for example as gamma I'm also democratic, decisive, etc. Hope that helps. roud:


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## Krayfish (Nov 3, 2015)

Asd456 said:


> Socionics Types: EII-INFj Subtypes and Socionics Types: IEE-ENFp Subtypes
> 
> Hm, I really don't think you're ILE, to be honest. I think a good way to differentiate is to start with the quadras. Do you identify more with alpha, beta, gamma, or delta? Compared to the reinin dichotomies it's easier I think. Starting with the quadras helped me determine gamma; reinin dichotomies sort of correlates as well; for example as gamma I'm also democratic, decisive, etc. Hope that helps. roud:


Thank you!

Honestly, looking in terms of quadra I'd probably agree (although in reinin I originally considered myself democratic and merry). I seem to fit more into the gamma/delta (or at least so I think). Looking over the sub type descriptions, IEE-Ne and EII-Fi seem to hold some degree of promise, so I'll have to look further into that.


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## Mr Castelo (May 28, 2017)

Asd456 said:


> Ni subtype is a valid possibility; also, if you find out your stacking (enneagram), I find that it helps as well. For instance, I'm ENTJ-Ni subtype and my stacking is Sx/Sp. Usually, there's a correlation in terms of So instinct last and more introversion; if you think you're Ni subtype, find out your stacking. I suspect perhaps Sx or Sp first if you think you're INTJ-Ni subtype. roud:


Yes, I'm pretty sure that my stacking is Sp/Sx.



> This is a common mentality, actually, it is because of the massive amount of contradictory information regarding the different enneagram authors. However, if you stick to it, you basically weed out the irrelevant theories. It makes sense if you relate to 4, 5, 9 as they're part of the withdrawn triad. Actually, in terms of subtype and stacking, if you're a type 9 with Sp subtype, you're more introverted and reclusive (this is why stacking is relevant). It's broken down into 3 main triads; heart-image/shame, head-fear/anxiety, and body-anger.


I see. Can you tell me what's the defining characteristic of type 9 and what differentiates it from type 5 and 4? This is my main problem, type 9 looks almost indistinguishable from other types.


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## Reila (Jan 17, 2017)

From what I read, it seems like the point of type 9 is exactly that: It is sort of a mixture of the other types, but it also lacks its own peculiarities, so it is natural to have a hard time when trying to differentiate it from other types.


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## AllyKat (Jan 24, 2014)

Always happy for alternative perspectives, I'll give Krayfish's questions a go  Question away as you wish. 


* *




*1) Is there any uncertainty regarding how you are currently typed? Why/Why not? What other types do you feel could be an option.*

Mostly in the sense that I frequently read other's judgments on certain types on here and they're at odds with my own understandings. It makes me wonder if I actually understand what's going on at all, or if I'm flawed by my own biases. I did a socionics questionnaire on this forum some time last year and was typed by different forum members as having each of the introverted information elements as my base function. Maybe I just broke the system... 

*2) Describe something you feel strongly about. It could be a like, dislike, ect ect. Why do you feel strongly about this?*

Tolerance. People are so quick to judge others, and it's really unfair. Everyone is individual, so why do we focus so much on the differences and finding fault with them? It's the differences that make people interesting. This is something that's evolved for me over the years, I guess it's just because you reach a point where you can't accept all the hurt in the world. I can't help seeking the perfect world I suppose. 

*3) What type of people are you drawn to? What type of people are you repulsed by? Why?*

I'm not really drawn to people as such, but I like people who are kind, who give people their time and don't ask for anything in return. I suppose I'm drawn to optimists, they compliment my pessimism well. 

I abhor aggressive people. I just don't understand aggression and I find it cruel and thoughtless. I don't think it achieves what they want it to achieve either, so where is the benefit?

*4) Choose one of the following prompts to answer; a) What is your current career path and what made you choose it? b) What is your current career and why/why don't you enjoy it? c) What would be your ideal job and why?*

I'll focus on (b). I enjoy my current career because I get to combine science/engineering with legal argumentation and also provide business advice. I like the variety that gives. There's a lot of independent working alone too. I appreciate the structure of a 9-5 type office job that it also has because it allows me to keep it contained so it doesn't intrude on my personal life. 

I enjoy the direct contact with clients less. It's necessary, but many don't know what they want. Or ask questions that are unrealistic because they don't understand the legal system well enough or their current constraints don't allow for it. Sometimes I get too many interruptions at work, but I think that's as much the office set up rather than the job itself. 

*5) Role Play: You are provided with small bottle filled with water from the fountain of youth. The water will give whoever drinks of it immortality and resistance to physical injury/superhuman healing. There is only enough water for one person. What will you do with it and why?*

I find a research lab who is willing to do scientific research on it and give it to them. Not with a view to finding immortality, but so they could use it in research to find cures for degenerative diseases, the Alzheimer's, Parkinson's of this world. I don't think anyone realistically would enjoy immortality, specifically if they were alone in it, but to prevent suffering of diseases that could be prevented by something like that, that would be real progress. I just can't think of a better way to use something like that. 

*6) What kind of people do you admire and why? You can give examples if you so choose, but please be sure to explain them for those who aren't familiar with it.*

People who've been through hell and keep going, and never use it against others. They don't blame or take it out against other people and they keep at it day after day. It's a beautiful aspect of humanity that you can throw so much shit at someone and their scars never completely break them.


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## Saturniid (Oct 4, 2016)

Just did one of these for enneagram, and it's been a while, so to start off, if one needs reference to see my perspective, here.

http://personalitycafe.com/whats-my...ting-typing-questionnaire-care-add-input.html

I'm fairly certain the replies will matter as well. 


But yes, new perspectives are always welcome, so feel free to lend yours.


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## Turi (May 9, 2017)

@AllyKat those are some beautiful responses, I'm sure there's an argument for some kind of Fe type to be made, do you get ISFJ sometimes on tests?



I give permission for anyone who wants to tell me how mistyped I am, to do so.


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## AllyKat (Jan 24, 2014)

Turi said:


> @AllyKat those are some beautiful responses, I'm sure there's an argument for some kind of Fe type to be made, do you get ISFJ sometimes on tests?


Thank you, and generally, no. I did get ISFJ once on 16 personalities, but I always thought their test operated under the principle of "thinkers are completely heartless and hate people" so didn't put much weight on it (I've tested ISTJ on there as well, so it may just be mood related). I test reasonably consistently - ISTJ most, INTJ second, IxTP on some cognitive function tests. Se and Fe seem to be my worst functions in tests, and I can't say I relate to either of them strongly, if at all. 

When I did the questions I thought it was very 1w2 - I fluctuate a lot with enneagram wings, and I change my mind on whether I'm 1w9 or 1w2 all the time. I often wonder if I come across as ISFJ to others; people see me as more people-orientated than I see myself. My mum is Fe dominant though, and as a kid I was definitely encouraged to be more Fe-like. Then again, people are as likely to comment on how detached from my emotions I am as they are to say how helpful and friendly I am. 



> I give permission for anyone who wants to tell me how mistyped I am, to do so.


You come across to me as more ISTP than INFJ really, but I think you've already been through that dilemma.


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## Turi (May 9, 2017)

AllyKat said:


> Thank you, and generally, no. I did get ISFJ once on 16 personalities, but I always thought their test operated under the principle of "thinkers are completely heartless and hate people" so didn't put much weight on it (I've tested ISTJ on there as well, so it may just be mood related). I test reasonably consistently - ISTJ most, INTJ second, IxTP on some cognitive function tests. Se and Fe seem to be my worst functions in tests, and I can't say I relate to either of them strongly, if at all.
> 
> When I did the questions I thought it was very 1w2 - I fluctuate a lot with enneagram wings, and I change my mind on whether I'm 1w9 or 1w2 all the time. I often wonder if I come across as ISFJ to others; people see me as more people-orientated than I see myself. My mum is Fe dominant though, and as a kid I was definitely encouraged to be more Fe-like. Then again, people are as likely to comment on how detached from my emotions I am as they are to say how helpful and friendly I am.


Ha, fair enough. Yeah the 16personalities test isn't actually an MBTI test, so we'll just ignore that one anyway.

I didn't consider Enneagram.. don't know much about it.
Funnily enough, I read after writing that response up, that some combinations of functions can look like another function, and the example I read was of Si-Te looking like Fe.
Interesting.



> You come across to me as more ISTP than INFJ really, but I think you've already been through that dilemma.


Yeah, but, ISTP is cooler - is it because you see Ti, or because you don't see Ni?


----------



## Turi (May 9, 2017)

double post


----------



## AllyKat (Jan 24, 2014)

Turi said:


> Ha, fair enough. Yeah the 16personalities test isn't actually an MBTI test, so we'll just ignore that one anyway.


You can say that about a lot of online tests. It's no wonder we all get confused! 



> I didn't consider Enneagram.. don't know much about it.


Riso/Hudson correlated enneagram type Two with Jung's Extroverted Feeling type, so a One with a Two wing would give that kind of edge, which may explain the "Fe" if there's a lack of Fe. Although they correlate type One with Jung's Te so theoretically that should be more apparent in this case... It's a rough correlation anyway but I like considering the enneagram effect on MBTI types because of how the enneagram type impacts on how the main cognitive functions are used, so that two people of one MBTI type can look quite different because they have completely different enneagram types. 



> Funnily enough, I read after writing that response up, that some combinations of functions can look like another function, and the example I read was of Si-Te looking like Fe.
> Interesting.


That sounds an interesting read - do you have a link?

I've never thought of Si-Te as looking like Fe before but I can see it could be possible if Te is being heavily governed by Si when Si is in 'duty' mode. Could that appear more people-focused? It's an interesting concept. I've always felt a sense of helpfulness which I think comes across more selfless to others than I think of it myself. I don't tend to think "I want to help this person to make their life better", consciously it feels more like a void that needs filling, or to be doing something useful/purposeful. That could be a reflection of Si's need for stability, supported by Te wanting to iron out the disruption in the environment...



> Yeah, but, ISTP is cooler - is it because you see Ti, or because you don't see Ni?


Both really. I haven't really paid that much attention to your posts from that standpoint recently as you seemed more settled with INFJ, but previously I thought you structured a lot of your discussion in a Ti like manner rather than a Fe one. The way you appear to filter through data seems more akin to how Ti-doms process information. I'd have also said that your justifications are more realistic than idealistic and as such makes you seem more ST than NF. NF idealism anyway - not focusing on an ideal that can be realistically achieved (ST idealism) but the idea of aiming for something desirable without concern for the practicalities (NF idealism). 

For example, when you started your typing thread (for you to type others), the questions you formulated focused on real life, tangible (somewhat practical even) scenarios. Compare with the questions I just answered in this thread - which are people-oriented and somewhat moralistic/idealistic (from someone typing as an ENFP). You are seeking the same end result, but the approach is different. 

Of course, you could be channelling a less dominant aspect of your personality in your posts on here because it's most appropriate for the situation - and I think any reasonably healthy individual will do this to some extent. I think this is one of the problems with typing by cognitive functions because, as you note, they can mimic each other in terms of behaviour and it's often difficult to drill down into the underlying (cognitive) reasons as to why we chose to act in a particular way.

Curious - why is ISTP cooler?


----------



## Turi (May 9, 2017)

AllyKat said:


> You can say that about a lot of online tests. It's no wonder we all get confused!
> 
> 
> 
> Riso/Hudson correlated enneagram type Two with Jung's Extroverted Feeling type, so a One with a Two wing would give that kind of edge, which may explain the "Fe" if there's a lack of Fe. Although they correlate type One with Jung's Te so theoretically that should be more apparent in this case... It's a rough correlation anyway but I like considering the enneagram effect on MBTI types because of how the enneagram type impacts on how the main cognitive functions are used, so that two people of one MBTI type can look quite different because they have completely different enneagram types.


Ah, cool, yeah I got some Riso/Hudson book on Enneagram last night on Amazon but I'm sick ATM so there's no way in hell I'm going to read it yet.

I did know the wings were often associated with certain cognitive functions though, didn't know which ones 1 and 2 were though, thanks!



> That sounds an interesting read - do you have a link?
> 
> I've never thought of Si-Te as looking like Fe before but I can see it could be possible if Te is being heavily governed by Si when Si is in 'duty' mode. Could that appear more people-focused? It's an interesting concept. I've always felt a sense of helpfulness which I think comes across more selfless to others than I think of it myself. I don't tend to think "I want to help this person to make their life better", consciously it feels more like a void that needs filling, or to be doing something useful/purposeful. That could be a reflection of Si's need for stability, supported by Te wanting to iron out the disruption in the environment...


I can't find it, I read so much shit I lose myself, if I can find it I'll link, it wasn't exactly a scientific study or anything, it was just a thread on this forum.

Something to do with.. Si-Te seeking to create a harmonious work environment for overall success, and a part of that includes people getting along.. I'll have to try find it.





> Both really. I haven't really paid that much attention to your posts from that standpoint recently as you seemed more settled with INFJ, but previously I thought you structured a lot of your discussion in a Ti like manner rather than a Fe one. The way you appear to filter through data seems more akin to how Ti-doms process information. I'd have also said that your justifications are more realistic than idealistic and as such makes you seem more ST than NF. NF idealism anyway - not focusing on an ideal that can be realistically achieved (ST idealism) but the idea of aiming for something desirable without concern for the practicalities (NF idealism).
> 
> For example, when you started your typing thread (for you to type others), the questions you formulated focused on real life, tangible (somewhat practical even) scenarios. Compare with the questions I just answered in this thread - which are people-oriented and somewhat moralistic/idealistic (from someone typing as an ENFP). You are seeking the same end result, but the approach is different.
> 
> ...


Ah, fair enough.

I created realistic situations for that questionnaire because the only way to really tell what functions someone uses is to actually see them solve a problem.

When people just ramble on about useless shit.. eh.. no point.. people can take their time and refine their posts as much as they want, lead us whichever way they so please.

I wanted to get past the airy-fairy BS and provide some actual "possible" scenarios for people to talk about.

I think responding to hypotheticals isn't a good way to gauge someone's type anyway now, maybe this is more weight towards me being an ST type, but I think the only way to get it right is through improvised video types or literally seeing how someone solves a problem.

I'm wondering whether my approach to recording acoustic music is along the lines of what you call "ST idealism" - never heard that term before btw - when I record acoustically, I only ever like to do one-shot recordings, vocals and guitar at the same time, I refuse to do them one track at a time, refuse to re-do just the vocals or just the guitar etc, if it needs redoing, I redo both tracks in the same recording again.

I feel like anything else doesn't capture the moment accurately and truthfully. 

I dislike the usual recording process of layering tracks, and prefer everything I ever do, to basically be done in one single take - if I mess up, I'll redo the whole thing from the start, I don't just fix the mistake and move on using some studio magic.


I don't know, sorta feels like what I think your "ST idealism" is, yeah?


As for why ISTP is cooler well read any stereotype, way better.

I do have a hard time telling if I'm an Ni Dom, or if I am viewing and understanding my own Ni through a Ti lense.

EDIT: if I am an ISTP I'm a weird one though, aux Se suggests they're probably big on sex etc, I'm genuinely not interested in that, not a thought on my mind all day like most boiz, and I'm not swayed by women trying to seduce me.

There's a lot that doesn't fit for ISTP. 
But that could simply be due to how very introverted I am.
Or my own set of morals and values etc.

Also, shouldn't I have actually built things and fixed things up around the house to some extent?
Very rare I do this. But I do enjoy it.
It's not a hobby.
I don't do woodwork or metalwork or weld in the shed lol.

I believe I know 2 ISTPs, one is a painter who builds amps for fun, one is a self-employed general handyman who can literally do anything, absolutely anything, and he does it perfectly.

I'm nothing like them. Could be various shades of ISTP though.
Not opposed to that.


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## Krayfish (Nov 3, 2015)

Turi said:


> EDIT: if I am an ISTP I'm a weird one though, aux Se suggests they're probably big on sex etc, I'm genuinely not interested in that, not a thought on my mind all day like most boiz, and I'm not swayed by women trying to seduce me.


 Looks like you've been sipping on some really nice Se stereotypes. These are more so attributed to Se misfires rather than actual Se behavior when portrayed in an excessive way, but all types can be "big on sex and ect," it just depends on why your into that sort of stuff. Se isn't all about indulging in sensory activities, although healthy Se users may enjoy such things. Se is more about grasping opportunities as they come, being realistic and holistically being about to understand and interpret the immediate environment and situations in a non-subjective manner. They try to do things in the present moment, which since you mentioned this:


Turi said:


> I'm wondering whether my approach to recording acoustic music is along the lines of what you call "ST idealism" - never heard that term before btw - when I record acoustically, I only ever like to do one-shot recordings, vocals and guitar at the same time, I refuse to do them one track at a time, refuse to re-do just the vocals or just the guitar etc, if it needs redoing, I redo both tracks in the same recording again.


 makes me think that inferior Se might not be you. I don't know, Se stereotypes have always really pissed me off; A lot of them are portrayed as party animals who are hyper coordinated/athletically inclined or super aggressive or sex/drug obsessed but honestly I find much of the time that isn't the case. Se is often capable, aware, and present, which I honestly admire and cannot seem to replicate in myself *[Sorry, that came off as sort of a rant and 100% wasn't directed at you entirely]*



Turi said:


> There's a lot that doesn't fit for ISTP.
> But that could simply be due to how very introverted I am.
> *Or my own set of morals and values etc.*
> 
> ...


 While I do admit most of the ISTPs I know are also like this (Se I find is generally "hands on" when it comes to learning, so I guess that makes sense), as you suggested, there are 50 shades of ISTPs, and every type for that matter, so I wouldn't push away the option of ISTP just because you don't do that sort of stuff. Still, since I have read your "what's my enneatype" post a while ago, you struck me as a definite F type. I was almost going to suggest ISFJ, although I saw Se so I didn't (I assumed you were probably a 6w7 or something and that's what was throwing me off). Have you considered ISFP? Not necessarily saying that INFJ is wrong, because I do believe that is a definite possibility for you, but I almost question if your Se is higher than inferior.


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## Turi (May 9, 2017)

Krayfish said:


> Looks like you've been sipping on some really nice Se stereotypes. These are more so attributed to Se misfires rather than actual Se behavior when portrayed in an excessive way, but all types can be "big on sex and ect," it just depends on why your into that sort of stuff. Se isn't all about indulging in sensory activities, although healthy Se users may enjoy such things. Se is more about grasping opportunities as they come, being realistic and holistically being about to understand and interpret the immediate environment and situations in a non-subjective manner. They try to do things in the present moment, which since you mentioned this: makes me think that inferior Se might not be you. I don't know, Se stereotypes have always really pissed me off; A lot of them are portrayed as party animals who are hyper coordinated/athletically inclined or super aggressive or sex/drug obsessed but honestly I find much of the time that isn't the case. Se is often capable, aware, and present, which I honestly admire and cannot seem to replicate in myself *[Sorry, that came off as sort of a rant and 100% wasn't directed at you entirely]*
> 
> While I do admit most of the ISTPs I know are also like this (Se I find is generally "hands on" when it comes to learning, so I guess that makes sense), as you suggested, there are 50 shades of ISTPs, and every type for that matter, so I wouldn't push away the option of ISTP just because you don't do that sort of stuff. Still, since I have read your "what's my enneatype" post a while ago, you struck me as a definite F type. I was almost going to suggest ISFJ, although I saw Se so I didn't (I assumed you were probably a 6w7 or something and that's what was throwing me off). Have you considered ISFP? Not necessarily saying that INFJ is wrong, because I do believe that is a definite possibility for you, but I almost question if your Se is higher than inferior.


Cheers for the response - I find it amusing that you edited your post like 5 times within the space of 30-45 minutes to keep trying to soften it, when it wasn't harsh in the first place haha.

I didn't think there was/is any aggression at all in it.

Yeah, that Se stereotype.. I knew it was shit as I typed it, it was a half-thought.. I intended to say I didn't lose my virginity until I was about 23 and I imagine the average ISTP would lose theirs at a far earlier age due to Se being auxiliary - they'd be more inclined to act in the moment, especially younger than I was.
I didn't really even want it when I did lose it. Eh.
Won't go too far into it.

Anyway, yeah I had considered ISFP for about 2 seconds but when I speak with Fi users there's not a chance in hell I'm remotely similar to their way of thinking.

For kicks here's a couple posts I wrote up on a music page I frequent, long before I ever found out about MBTI and could be bias or swayed towards any particular type, might help anyone who has literally nothing else to do say "yeh stfu u estj bra"


* *




..had a bit of a discussion with the band, where we wanna go etc at the moment all is well..

But I feel like..
Eh.

I get over playing the same songs all the time.
I am way beyond being over having a niche and will stop playing if we don't branch out asap - seemed like a good idea to have a niche in theory but in practice, you playing the same **** all the time intentionally trying to sound the same - IOW, not me at all, lol.

Learning songs is a pain.
3 people have to learn them, use up their time to learn them.

I personally get over songs very quickly sometimes, perhaps I want to scrap a song I've worked on entirely before ever gigging it - this is just me.
I can't do that with other people learning these songs, using their time to do this..

Wind up having to stick with songs I no longer am keen on.. my heart isn't in the songs sometimes.. I'm over em.. simple.

Solo, this is cool.
With the band, not cool.

I only have time for one band.
I refuse to have my creativity stifled by having a niche or feeling like I need to please the other members.

I want no input from band members regarding song choice or arrangements.
None.
I wanna pick the songs or write the songs - they learn em, we do em, done that's it.
With originals, yeah, I'll dig some input and help or whatever.. I'm not a drummer for instance..

I don't want any of this "not keen on that one" bullshit.
What I say I wanna do, is what I wanna do.
Perhaps I learn a song, takes a week then perhaps I don't gig it.
This is my life. My prerogative.
Unfortunately this is massively unfair and a huge dick move to band members, who I might have shown the song, and had them learn.

I don't know.
Bit of a rant/blog post.
Not sure how I feel atm.

I'm way too creative to be comfortable feeling so musically restricted.. it's not even just 12 bars.. it's that each song has similar stop-starts.. same keys a lot of the time.. and whenever new songs have been introduced (by me) it's like.. if it doesn't fit the "vibe" or whatever, then we can't do it for some reason.

I firmly believe **** the vibe.
I want to do what I want. If I want to play 20 Springsteen songs one night, that's what I want to do.
If I want to jam a half hour rendition of Texas Flood, then that's what I want to do.
The punters dig me, I do well live, people like me - I personally could pull this off - as long as a song is within my range - I am talented enough to pull it off - improvise bits here and there or whatever, I'm all heart man and it shows, it comes through both vocally and through my guitar playing.
People dig that. The rawness. The realness. 
People like music that touches them.

We currently have like one single song, where I'm able to do that to people - Stand By Me.
It's a song every other band does, I know, it also has a great chord progression (though super common), and every time I've played it, solo or with the band, it touches people.
That's where it's at for me. Connections. Connecting with people.
I've had comments at a couple of gigs now, on my guitar work, people comment on this one track.
It's no coincidence that that songs is the one that stands out for people when I do it.
It's also the sole song that I feel that connection with.
I want all songs I play to have that connection.

The songs I think will connect with people - the ones I want to use, to touch peoples hearts, changes all the time.
Having 2 other people learn songs isn't an easy task.
It's not fair of me to change songs on them at a moments notice, which I'm able to do as I am very musically diverse and I know a whole lot of songs, I also am a very fast learner and can pick new things up very fast.

I can fill out a whole set with brand new songs on the same day as a gig, and pull them off, have people enjoy it and want more. No trainwrecks. Nothing of the sort.
All heart. Brand new material, yet I make it work.

I can't do this with a band.
Perhaps bands aren't for me.
Though it is a whole lot more fun to play in a band.
Maybe my band isn't for me then.
Perhaps I need a pickup group of sorts, who just wing whatever the heck I want to wing, though for this I'd need people that speak my language, I've met two of these people in my entire musical life.
These people aren't common.
They're also very unreliable, for obvious reasons.
I'm unreliable. I have a family. Work. I study. All of this is placed above playing music with other people, although all of my spare me time is spent on the guitar, learning new things etc, this is how I can do what I do.

What to do, what to do..
Who else has been here?






* *




'sup fellas.

This one might be a bit weird.


A while ago, at work, we had like a little celebratory lunch for doing well on one day - so we got some free pizzas. Everyone was down with it except one guy who basically said he had to go and off he went.

There was something so weird about it though, couldn't pin-point what.


So later in the day, and on many.. too many.. occasions afterwards, I keep getting this mental image of him in his car, with his hands on his steering wheel, tears streaming down his face, his eyes bloodshot, because he really wanted the pizza, but felt like he couldn't have any because people would judge him.

That never happened. All in my head. I never saw that.

Then what do you know, dude quits the job like a day or two later, don't know why - did my spidey senses pick up on something? Or am I losing my mind?



Also, I met up with a friend a while back, been meeting up every Sunday since, just having a coffee and having a chat about **** all.. but we wind up somehow with the conversations being so hilarious, I can not contain my laughter, I've got tears streaming down my face, in a coffee shop, and I have to put on my sunglasses and actively try to utilise like.. breathing exercises just to suppress the laughter.

I get into those kinds of feelings entirely of my own accord sometimes when driving around, or at home too, and my wife doesn't know WTF is going on.

We will be halfway through a serious conversation, and I'll just start laughing, for seemingly no reason, at the worst possible times. So she thinks I'm laughing at her.
I'm not laughing at her. 
I'm laughing at something in my head, where I was playing with our cat, who's somehow turned into a dog in my head, and I've clean booted him straight across the road - except he kept ****ing going, and went into outer space, so eventually this cat-dog I've kicked has landed on Mars and basically imploded, then the 'camera' turns back around and speed-zooms back to Earth - an image of Shia LeBouf flexing in front of a green screen (you know the one).


I mean there's millions of these weird as hell scenarios playing out in my brain and I have a really hard time containing my laughter. Like I said, I need to do like breathing exercises, or yesterday at work, my mind went into whoop whoop land amidst a really serious group-chat and I basically clenched my jaw until I thought my teeth were going to break into tiny little fragments of a white chocolate Ferrero Rocher.



Anyone else the same?


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## Krayfish (Nov 3, 2015)

Turi said:


> Cheers for the response - I find it amusing that you edited your post like 5 times within the space of 30-45 minutes to keep trying to soften it, when it wasn't harsh in the first place haha.
> 
> I didn't think there was/is any aggression at all in it.


 Oh really? I don't know, I thought the first draft was super condescending, I suppose my social anxiety's playing tricks again with my head then. Good, you've been pretty nice to me on this forum so far, you're not one of the people I'd like to create problems with.



Turi said:


> Yeah, that Se stereotype.. I knew it was shit as I typed it, it was a half-thought.. I intended to say I didn't lose my virginity until I was about 23 and I imagine the average ISTP would lose theirs at a far earlier age due to Se being auxiliary - they'd be more inclined to act in the moment, especially younger than I was.
> I didn't really even want it when I did lose it. Eh.
> Won't go too far into it.
> 
> ...


I read your posts that you included (although somewhat quickly), and I definitely am seeing a lot of the Se-Ni axis throughout both. Although part of me thinks that Se and Ni are near the center of your stack, you're probably an INFJ, as I still believe that I see Fe>Ti. I think what's throwing me off is that you do have access to all your functions to some degree because you're older than me and because your so-blind (which always makes me lean T when typing if I'm going to be honest).


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## Turi (May 9, 2017)

Krayfish said:


> Oh really? I don't know, I thought the first draft was super condescending, I suppose my social anxiety's playing tricks again with my head then. Good, you've been pretty nice to me on this forum so far, you're not one of the people I'd like to create problems with.
> 
> 
> I read your posts that you included (although somewhat quickly), and I definitely am seeing a lot of the Se-Ni axis throughout both. Although part of me thinks that Se and Ni are near the center of your stack, you're probably an INFJ, as I still believe that I see Fe>Ti. I think what's throwing me off is that you do have access to all your functions to some degree because you're older than me and because your so-blind (which always makes me lean T when typing if I'm going to be honest).


I definitely didn't read it as condescending, I saw all the revisions too, haha. Didn't know wtf you were doing haha.

What's so-blind? This the instinct thing from enneagram? I'm pretty sure I'm sx/sp. Checked into that stuff a couple weeks ago.

The Fe thing, I've been meaning to make a thread about - I want to know how large the gap is supposed to be between dom and aux.

My wife is an ESFJ, and she loves talking, doesn't stop, extravert for sure, and I can't stand talking, I don't need to fill in every god damn silence with speech. I don't require acknowledgement or participation every time I say something.
It drives me absolutely insane sometimes.

Which makes me wonder how much space is supposed to be between dom and aux, since INFJ aux is Fe, I imagine I should be more inclined to want to talk and participate/engage, but I mean, ffs, I can't think of anything WORSE than being forced to respond and actively communicate with people in conversation like 90% of the time.

I can do it, I work in a call centre, but man.. no. 

She hates silence too - if she asks a question even if I nod my head, not good enough, have to actually *speak* and respond, and this pisses me off.
I'd be happy barely speaking a word all day.

Being forced to talk irritates the living shit out of me.

I can't just say "stop talking" because she'll get all ragey and I CBF with that. haha.


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## Krayfish (Nov 3, 2015)

Turi said:


> I definitely didn't read it as condescending, I saw all the revisions too, haha. Didn't know wtf you were doing haha.
> 
> What's so-blind? This the instinct thing from enneagram? I'm pretty sure I'm sx/sp. Checked into that stuff a couple weeks ago.
> 
> ...


 Yeah, so blind is the instinctual varient thing, corresponds with people with sp/sx sx/sp varients.

As for the line between dom and aux Fe, there's kind of a big spectrum. Socionics covers it a bit better, since they have varients to their types. An IEI-Ni (INFJ equivalent) would likely be very introverted, and at times resemble an INTJ, where as an IEI-Fe might be closer to the ambiverted side of the spectrum, resembling an ENFJ at moments. The gap can be pretty large from what I've seen though.

I guess any extroverted function would cause one to engage. Usually Fe aux is more common for ambiverts because Fe, unlike the other extroverted functions, is a bit more people/relationship oriented, but you also indentify as a 5w4 sx/sp which is the second most withdrawn enneagram type paired with an instinctual varient that has a tendency towards introversion, so that probably plays a role as well.


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## Turi (May 9, 2017)

Krayfish said:


> Yeah, so blind is the instinctual varient thing, corresponds with people with sp/sx sx/sp varients.
> 
> As for the line between dom and aux Fe, there's kind of a big spectrum. Socionics covers it a bit better, since they have varients to their types. An IEI-Ni (INFJ equivalent) would likely be very introverted, and at times resemble an INTJ, where as an IEI-Fe might be closer to the ambiverted side of the spectrum, resembling an ENFJ at moments. The gap can be pretty large from what I've seen though.
> 
> I guess any extroverted function would cause one to engage. Usually Fe aux is more common for ambiverts because Fe, unlike the other extroverted functions, is a bit more people/relationship oriented, but you also indentify as a 5w4 sx/sp which is the second most withdrawn enneagram type paired with an instinctual varient that has a tendency towards introversion, so that probably plays a role as well.


If 5w4 is only 2nd most withdrawn Enneagram type I need to have a read of the most withdrawn one. haha.

In socionics I did some test the other day and got SLI - didn't agree with quite a bit of the description it provided though.
Like there were entire sections that weren't right.

I don't know anything about socionics, I think SLI = ISTP or istj?


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## Krayfish (Nov 3, 2015)

Turi said:


> If 5w4 is only 2nd most withdrawn Enneagram type I need to have a read of the most withdrawn one. haha.
> 
> In socionics I did some test the other day and got SLI - didn't agree with quite a bit of the description it provided though.
> Like there were entire sections that weren't right.
> ...


If your looking for the most withdrawn I'd go with 4w5 sp/sx or so/sp lol

SLI would be ISTp but ISTJ in socionics/functionally, the socionics equivalent of ISTP would be LSI. I'm not suprised it didn't resonate with you, I'm pretty sure you're not an ISTJ. Which test did you take? This site Sociotype.com has a decent test that gets things right occasionally and even better descriptions if you want to learn more about that ever.


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## Mr Castelo (May 28, 2017)

@Krayfish

Isn't type 5 like super introverted? I've read quite a bit about it because it's the type that I identify with the most, and type 5w4 seems more introverted to me than 4w5, because type 4 is usually more expressive with their emotions and all that stuff. 5w4 Sp/Sx seems to be the most introverted Enneagram type to me.


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## Krayfish (Nov 3, 2015)

Mr. Castelo said:


> @Krayfish
> 
> Isn't type 5 like super introverted? I've read quite a bit about it because it's the type that I identify with the most, and type 5w4 seems more introverted to me than 4w5, because type 4 is usually more expressive with their emotions and all that stuff. 5w4 Sp/Sx seems to be the most introverted Enneagram type to me.


Well yeah, 5 is super introverted, but 4 is a double withdrawn type. 5 is withdrawn and power/control oriented (there's a better word for this).






This graph (credit @owlet ) does a good job explaining it (I believe there's a link to the site somewhere on the "Honest Mistype Enneagram" thread, I only have the image). Perhaps 5 could be more introverted, but when it comes to withdrawn-ness 4 definitely takes the cake. I'd agree sp/sx is probably the most introverted typically, while 4 so/sp is said to be the most withdrawn of the 4s


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## Turi (May 9, 2017)

Krayfish said:


> If your looking for the most withdrawn I'd go with 4w5 sp/sx or so/sp lol
> 
> SLI would be ISTp but ISTJ in socionics/functionally, the socionics equivalent of ISTP would be LSI. I'm not suprised it didn't resonate with you, I'm pretty sure you're not an ISTJ. Which test did you take? This site Sociotype.com has a decent test that gets things right occasionally and even better descriptions if you want to learn more about that ever.


Not sure which one it was, I took the one you gave me just then and got this:

Tests Result: Est 242219

Think it's INTP but haven't read it yet.
Will real soon.
Have to drop daughter at daycare first haha.


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## Mr Castelo (May 28, 2017)

@Turi

Just read the description for IEI-INFp (equivalent to MBTI's INFJ) and see if you can relate. I read the descripton for ILI and it totally resonated with me, see if it's the same case for you (if you haven't done this before).


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## Turi (May 9, 2017)

Mr. Castelo said:


> @Turi
> 
> Just read the description for IEI-INFp (equivalent to MBTI's INFJ) and see if you can relate. I read the descripton for ILI and it totally resonated with me, see if it's the same case for you (if you haven't done this before).


I read them - the LII and IEI ones - both fit about the same, LII probably a tad more so because of all the other-wordly mystical dream-like absolute horseshit in the descriptors in the IEI one.

This is a direct quote:



> They are often highly reflective and imaginative, and the fantastic tendencies of IEIs are often vivid and complex.


Spare me, ffs.

Also, I absolutely do *not* feel a need to look after the mood of those around me.


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## Paradigm (Feb 16, 2010)

Krayfish said:


> Well yeah, 5 is super introverted, but 4 is a double withdrawn type. 5 is withdrawn and power/control oriented (there's a better word for this).
> View attachment 717978
> This graph (credit @owlet ) does a good job explaining it (I believe there's a link to the site somewhere on the "Honest Mistype Enneagram" thread, I only have the image). Perhaps 5 could be more introverted, but when it comes to withdrawn-ness 4 definitely takes the cake. I'd agree sp/sx is probably the most introverted typically, while 4 so/sp is said to be the most withdrawn of the 4s


 @Mr. Castelo

Although "withdrawn" does not equal "introverted" in Enneagram, and neither does being SOC-last, so this type of talk results in a crap-ton of mistypes...

Not trying to be rude, sorry. It's just a huge pet-peeve that gets propagated without stop. Props to you, Krayfish, for at least suggesting SO/SP.

Edit: Now reading the thread more wholly, I should've also tagged @Turi but you seem to have read this anyway 

Signed,
A 6w7 who left the house about twice in the past month
(And _doesn't_ have agoraphobia)


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## Eset (Jun 7, 2016)

You have permission to try state what type I am in your opinion, however I will not change my type due to your opinion; just for clarification.


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## Mr Castelo (May 28, 2017)

narcissistic said:


> You have permission to try state what type I am in your opinion, however I will not change my type due to your opinion; just for clarification.


I'm pretty sure that nobody is going to question your type with that username, the stereotypes surrounding ESTJs and your statement about not changing your type, but maybe someone does show up, lol.


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## AllyKat (Jan 24, 2014)

Turi said:


> Ah, cool, yeah I got some Riso/Hudson book on Enneagram last night on Amazon but I'm sick ATM so there's no way in hell I'm going to read it yet.
> 
> I did know the wings were often associated with certain cognitive functions though, didn't know which ones 1 and 2 were though, thanks!


I'm not sure the correlation is spot on, but it's an interesting comparison. Not just the wings though, just the types in general. I'll copy the list from _Personality Types - Using the Enneagram for Self-Discovery_

One = Te
Two = Fe
Three = No corresponding Jung type
Four = Ni
Five = Ti
Six = Fi
Seven = Se
Eight = Ne
Nine = Si​
I think there's argument for an alternative list for some of the types, and of course, not everyone's MBTI correlates with the same Enneatype. Riso/Hudson note that there's some overlap too, for example, some 9 traits are found in Fi. To be fair there's little more than a page on the topic in that book so it's not particularly comprehensive. 



> I can't find it, I read so much shit I lose myself, if I can find it I'll link, it wasn't exactly a scientific study or anything, it was just a thread on this forum.
> 
> Something to do with.. Si-Te seeking to create a harmonious work environment for overall success, and a part of that includes people getting along.. I'll have to try find it.


No trouble. The harmonious work environment is a fair point. I used to work with an ENTJ, and I would at times spend time trying to talk his Te down, not because I disagreed with him in principle (we usually agreed on things tbh), but his approach was often so direct and abrupt that he'd inadvertently rub other employees up the wrong way. My attitude was, yeah, but you need them to work with you, so you have to keep them on side. You don't need to change the principle, just make sure they don't feel like you're just barking orders at them because otherwise you can't progress. It's not so much that they need to get on, but if people are unhappy, you end up with more problems than you should have. 



> I created realistic situations for that questionnaire because the only way to really tell what functions someone uses is to actually see them solve a problem.





> I wanted to get past the airy-fairy BS and provide some actual "possible" scenarios for people to talk about.


I agree. I think it's a far better way of typing but not a common approach from the N types on here at least. 



> I'm wondering whether my approach to recording acoustic music is along the lines of what you call "ST idealism" - never heard that term before btw - when I record acoustically, I only ever like to do one-shot recordings, vocals and guitar at the same time, I refuse to do them one track at a time, refuse to re-do just the vocals or just the guitar etc, if it needs redoing, I redo both tracks in the same recording again.


I agree with @Krayfish here in terms of it highlighting more Se than you'd expect from inferior Se. 

I made up the term "ST idealism" because well, there's more than one 'brand' of idealism. This is why I don't like words, there just aren't enough of them; I make up different versions of them frequently. MBTI wise, it's NFs which are considered the "idealists", but that's strange for me because I always thought of myself as an 'idealist' even though my idealism isn't like that. It's like I take the idealism, accept it as just that - an ideal, and plan steps towards it, working around the practical elements that get you closer to the ideal. I suppose it's just a perfectionism of sorts. But yeah, I'd say your music recording idealism is more in line with that than the dreamy idealism often described for NFs. 



> As for why ISTP is cooler well read any stereotype, way better.


Really? I guess that's perspectives for you. I never thought of ISTPs as particularly cool or having a reputation as such. 



> There's a lot that doesn't fit for ISTP.
> But that could simply be due to how very introverted I am.
> Or my own set of morals and values etc.


To be fair, I find a lot of the ISTP descriptions weird. I mean it's all skydiving and risk taking and that. I mean seriously? I'm pretty sure that's not the case for most ISTPs. For starters, ISTPs are still introverts. There's a limit somewhere and the Ti is going to overrule somewhat. The _Gifts Differing_ description of ISTP is much tamer/more introverted than most of the stuff online. It's like online sees Se and thinks there must be an x involved.


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## Turi (May 9, 2017)

AllyKat said:


> I'm not sure the correlation is spot on, but it's an interesting comparison. Not just the wings though, just the types in general. I'll copy the list from _Personality Types - Using the Enneagram for Self-Discovery_
> 
> One = Te
> Two = Fe
> ...


Thanks for that, I think that's the book I've got here but haven't read yet, haha.




> No trouble. The harmonious work environment is a fair point. I used to work with an ENTJ, and I would at times spend time trying to talk his Te down, not because I disagreed with him in principle (we usually agreed on things tbh), but his approach was often so direct and abrupt that he'd inadvertently rub other employees up the wrong way. My attitude was, yeah, but you need them to work with you, so you have to keep them on side. You don't need to change the principle, just make sure they don't feel like you're just barking orders at them because otherwise you can't progress. It's not so much that they need to get on, but if people are unhappy, you end up with more problems than you should have.


Ha, yeah, see people like that ENTJ are a dime a dozen here, those types of people are too far out of touch with the reality of running a workplace that they wind up being a blur. A constantly changing face. Continuously replaced with various forms of the same person until finally, someone who actually 'gets it'.
Then of course, the person who 'gets it' winds up being too soft for the job and quits after a while.

Totally get what you mean.






> I agree. I think it's a far better way of typing but not a common approach from the N types on here at least.


Probably because they've been afforded the luxury of living in their own little fantasy world past the age of 9.

I'm thinking that a better way would be a quiz of sorts that would basically lay down realistic scenarios, and be a multiple-choice test, so you pick each response that applies, and each response corresponds to a particular function.

Then we'd have a chance to really dissect how each function might respond in any particular situation (I realise we use all functions in combinations.. perhaps this could be where the responses lead as the test goes on.. bit like that youtopia test).

Rather than people just picking which one option they want to be, it's more like a deductive process that rules things out as it goes.





> I agree with @Krayfish here in terms of it highlighting more Se than you'd expect from inferior Se.
> 
> I made up the term "ST idealism" because well, there's more than one 'brand' of idealism. This is why I don't like words, there just aren't enough of them; I make up different versions of them frequently. MBTI wise, it's NFs which are considered the "idealists", but that's strange for me because I always thought of myself as an 'idealist' even though my idealism isn't like that. It's like I take the idealism, accept it as just that - an ideal, and plan steps towards it, working around the practical elements that get you closer to the ideal. I suppose it's just a perfectionism of sorts. But yeah, I'd say your music recording idealism is more in line with that than the dreamy idealism often described for NFs.


I get what you're saying, I think my music recording process (only for acoustic tracks) fits perfectly with idealism in general, I'm aiming for a perfect "live" feel - a real, raw, one-shot kinda vibe. Definitely striving for perfection and have a goal in mind.
I don't believe my goals here are unrealistic though.




> Really? I guess that's perspectives for you. I never thought of ISTPs as particularly cool or having a reputation as such.


I don't know about their reputation, but the stereotypes are easily the coolest of all the types, imo.





> To be fair, I find a lot of the ISTP descriptions weird. I mean it's all skydiving and risk taking and that. I mean seriously? I'm pretty sure that's not the case for most ISTPs. For starters, ISTPs are still introverts. There's a limit somewhere and the Ti is going to overrule somewhat. The _Gifts Differing_ description of ISTP is much tamer/more introverted than most of the stuff online. It's like online sees Se and thinks there must be an x involved.


Yeah, the descriptors do tend to forget that ISTPs lead with Ti, not Se. 
So do people all over these forums, actually, everyone talks about ISTPs as if they're Se doms, when if you put one next to an ESTP and compared how they solved problems and interacted with the world, the difference would be beyond comparison.

I had a read of the Gifts Differing Ti doms (and Ni doms) and found myself resonating with all of them, even INTP and INTJ, so that's no help, haha.

EDIT: I'm warming up to the possibility of being an INTP.
It's the very first thing I got in any test (admittedly 16personalities) but I've read loads on INTP and it feels like a fit that for some reason I sorta deny since the descriptors lack much heart.

I just read this:
https://junglove.net/a-description-of-the-functions/

Don't know how credible the author is, the Ti INTP bit is very accurate. 

I also keep seeing the letters INTP literally burning in my brain every so often, almost like my brain is trying to point me towards it, for whatever reason.
By "literally burning" I mean that - it's an image in my head of the letters burning brightly, green flames though, on a black background.


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## a peach (May 21, 2015)

*shyly pokes head in*

It's been a little while since I last asked anyone for help on my type; I've spent a considerable amount of time away to just focus on my life and reflect without any possible influence from descriptions of types and their functions. I had previously thought of myself as being rather manipulative, easily-approachable. Can you believe I kept hopping between ENFJ and ESTP? I kept trying to convince myself that I was someone I'd rather be, than whom it is I am;;

In real-life, I _never_ get what I want because I'm much too shy to ask anyone for _anything_;; I'd rather suffer in silence than seek help from others. I'm so soft-spoken that people either talk over me and no one has heard me say a word in the first place, or I am asked to repeat myself over and over. Which ends up discouraging me from talking even more. I lack confidence, I avoid people, I feel very ashamed and embarrassed in general.

It's so rare I talk to anyone about how I feel. And when others come to me, I don't like influencing their thoughts other than supporting their thoughts, feelings and wants. When people tell me of their problems, I do my best to express that they're not wrong for whatever it is they're feeling, and to try and give advice; but it seems in my experience, people would rather have someone listen than for an opinion on how it could be fixed;; I can't help trying to help, but maybe it just keeps others from wishing to continue opening up to me;; I practice just trying to listen without interruption or offering my opinion; it's still an experiment, but it seems to go much better than just offering advice!

Sometimes I feel like I'm just watching everyone around me. I can easily see the links and relationships between others and objects, even ones that transcend time and space. I feel like everything has a place in this world, I sit on it a lot throughout the day. Wondering what it is I ought to be doing with myself, where I belong, what I have to contribute to this universe. I want to focus on becoming more gentle and less critical, I can't stand it when I think badly of another. It petrifies me when I catch myself speaking ill of someone, because I know there must be more to things than I can see -- so why is it I do something so negative? I need to practice being a kinder person. "_If you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything @ all._"


I feel horrible for deceiving others when typing, and wish I wouldn't try to do so to myself. My base observations of who I am would be withdrawn; shies away very easily from others and seeks lots of time spent alone. Enjoys escaping with music and poetry, indulging in the lives and stories of others; very in-love with fantasy novels and documentaries of real life celebrities and public figures. Moody, temperamental. Has false perceptions of self. Doesn't like confrontation, expectations. Wishes to not offend, draw attention. Fantasizes about possible plans for the future, but hesitates to put any into motion. Not happy @ this point in time, with myself or life;;


If I could perhaps hear any insight on what type best suits me, I'd absolutely love to hear. I will answer any questions, or talk about anything that may help.

For a moment, I was considering opening up about my relationship with my family. But it seems as though it's very clouded, what I perceived versus how things _really_ are. I always saw myself getting along very wonderfully with my parents and siblings, but the last time I visited (after spending over a year away from them -- longer than I've _ever_ been away), I was met with a lot of insults and guilt followed by gas-lighting. I was shocked @ the time to have it dawned upon me, like my perception of my childhood and growing up was all wrong. It still feels so odd to think about; perhaps I'm not all that good with seeing relations, I'm much too trusting and easily believe what others tell me;; Goodness, please help. I feel like if I knew for sure, it could really work towards me having more confidence in myself, who I am.


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## Krayfish (Nov 3, 2015)

@music box You're definitely not an ESTP. I could see ENFJ I suppose, but have you considered INFP or even ISFP? I thought I saw Fi rather than Fe.


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## Asd456 (Jul 25, 2017)

softcult said:


> I can easily see the links and relationships between others and objects, even ones that transcend time and space. I feel like everything has a place in this world, I sit on it a lot throughout the day. Wondering what it is I ought to be doing with myself, where I belong, what I have to contribute to this universe.


Sounds like Ni and mobilizing Se. In Socionics, Ni is the intuition of time. Socionics Information Elements: Ni 

As an ENTJ and LIE, I have creative Ni and mobilizing Se as well. Similarly, I fixate on what I have to contribute to the world and fixate on my position and purpose. I have a desire to implement change.

As for your withdrawn nature, consider the Ni subtype of ENFJ. Socionics Types: EIE-ENFj Subtypes


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## Reila (Jan 17, 2017)




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## Sybow (Feb 1, 2016)

I wish you good luck on typing me. I feel like I don't fit anywhere anyhow. I seem to be too fucked up in the head to even try.


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## Reila (Jan 17, 2017)

Satan_Claus said:


> I wish you good luck on typing me. I feel like I don't fit anywhere anyhow. I seem to be too fucked up in the head to even try.


You had your type as ISFP here, right? What made you change your mind?


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## Sybow (Feb 1, 2016)

Reila said:


> You had your type as ISFP here, right? What made you change your mind?


All my feelings are numbed. I just don't think ISFP fits me. Perhaps because of my mental state that I think this way.


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## jetser (Jan 6, 2016)

I am mistyped for what?

Let's pretend there is something written in the corner, but you can type me anyway. My history is known to anyone with a working mouse.


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## faithhealing (Dec 20, 2017)

I'm new here so I may not get many responses, plus I already have a 'what's my type' thread that's been pretty active with a lot of useful information and resources. I'm not sold on INFJ yet but I do think I'm probably XNFJ or EXFJ based on what others have shared with me and based on what I've been reading about cognitive functions.


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## Chesire Tower (Jan 19, 2013)

I type as an INFJ; I'm pretty sure I'm Ni-Fe but I keep getting NT on tests. Do me. ^_^


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## Grandmaster Yoda (Jan 18, 2014)

I confirm that you do not have an mbti type.


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## Chesire Tower (Jan 19, 2013)

Grandmaster Yoda said:


> I confirm that you do not have an mbti type.


LOL, what do you mean? Doesn't everyone, but they just don't know it?


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## Grandmaster Yoda (Jan 18, 2014)

Merry Magdalene said:


> LOL, what do you mean? Doesn't everyone, but they just don't know it?


It is quite a rare condition, but a condition nonetheless. All typeless humans are required to participate in a qualification course which will assign them a pseudo-type that can be used to prevent social shaming and potential imprisonment. You can be helped.


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## Chesire Tower (Jan 19, 2013)

Grandmaster Yoda said:


> It is quite a rare condition, but a condition nonetheless. All typeless humans are required to participate in a qualification course which will assign them a pseudo-type that can be used to prevent social shaming and potential imprisonment. You can be helped.


 Oh thank, God.


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## knifey (Jun 25, 2017)

Merry Magdalene said:


> Oh thank, God.


If you're a real INFJ you should have some kind of conspiracy theory that's currently interesting you. Something about demons, government cover-up's, ufo's, human-hybrids kept at a top secret location somewhere.... black goo?

I honestly just want something interesting to read, so will you tell us what conspiracy you're currently investigating?

edit: or if you're on a break, tell us the last topic you were in to.


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## Chesire Tower (Jan 19, 2013)

knifey said:


> If you're a real INFJ you should have some kind of conspiracy theory that's currently interesting you. Something about demons, government cover-up's, ufo's, human-hybrids kept at a top secret location somewhere.... black goo?
> 
> I honestly just want something interesting to read, so will you tell us what conspiracy you're currently investigating?
> 
> edit: or if you're on a break, tell us the last topic you were in to.


I think maybe you're thinking of a Fi/Ti-Ni loop or being in the grip of inferior Ni, LOL.


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