# INFJ and INFP Clash



## Angina Jolie

I really think one of my oldest friends is infj (though she tested intp, but kinda said that it doesnt fully fit either). 

When we were younger, she was obviously going through a Ni time. She was darker, more introverted, negative. I used to call her the "cloud". At that time we did clash quite a lot. 
We also sometimes clash when I become too P, cant decide or am a bit too spontaneous and non-planning. But not so much.
Or when she becomes too Fe in a way and tries to be too "fair". Like we lived together and she tried to collect every single penny for our common things. I could not understand it, cuz I'm more chill with stuff like that. To me it seemed crazy cuz I often bought things for the apartment bcause I wanted us to have them and could never imagine asking others for anything because of it. 

However, overall, we can not talk for ages and then start talking again and be like besties who never stopped talking. We have the same sense of humor, same intuitive intersts that our other friends dont really share. All in all, i think we are great friends who have been there for each other. She hasn't pushed help or anything upon me, I don't think I have done anything major negative to her either. 

Although there have been many small clashes, mainly Fi/Fe related, overall - we are great. So no, I don't think this is a friendship or a match or anything made in hell.


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## Angina Jolie

NomadLeviathan said:


> Emotionally, his inner turmoil was beyond palpable, and it drove me mad that he would not let me help him.


You should know that trying to help someone who did not ask for help is silly. They are not done with the misery, which might seem weird to you, but they might sercetly enjoy that experience and actually gain something very personally important from it. Like a lesson in life. He probably hadn't hit rock bottom of the issue yet. 
Be there when they ask you to be, with a guidance plan already prepares. That would be an amazing friend. Not someone who pushes their ways upon others letting them know - I dont trust you can deal with this yourself.


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## Effy

@Aelthwyn and @OrangeAppled - Amazing posts! Absolutely spot-on accurate on the differences between the two types, imo. Totally matches up to my experiences of INFJs and, to be honest, your INFP descriptions are exactly like me - especially your description of how INFPs handle conflict, OrangeAppled. I definitely "don't sweat the small stuff", then voice the problem calmly if it continues, then suddenly blow up if it doesn't change. I'm good at not taking things personally until it seems deliberate, but then sometimes overreact when it does. And then I usually calm down again and go back to square one with the person. Whereas my experience of INFJs is that they won't say anything at any stage, but will expect you to instinctively know, and then will silently cut you off rather than get visibly angry. It seems strange to me that some INFJs will tell everyone they have a problem with someone _except_ the person they have a problem with, but then, it probably seems strange to some INFJs that I'll get audibly angry.


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## NomadLeviathan

Shameless Nation said:


> You should know that trying to help someone who did not ask for help is silly. They are not done with the misery, which might seem weird to you, but they might sercetly enjoy that experience and actually gain something very personally important from it. Like a lesson in life. He probably hadn't hit rock bottom of the issue yet.
> Be there when they ask you to be, with a guidance plan already prepares. That would be an amazing friend. Not someone who pushes their ways upon others letting them know - I dont trust you can deal with this yourself.


I agree.


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## garwain

Some interesting perspectives on INFJ / INFP tendencies.. I have a best friend who is INFJ and I have a lot of respect for the differences between our types. however, recently I am really annoyed by her company and I don't think the typical clash has too much to do with it.

Her need to be in control is something I let slide. There are times where it's inappropriate, and I could easily give in to the temptation to feel annoyed by it, but I find that patience goes a long way. I understand that she is uncomfortable if things aren't a certain way and I don't mind giving her that freedom. I can also tell that she looks down on the opposite in me, that I fail to take control of things in my life and live in a reactionary state of just 'dealing' with things. Even there, where condescension is usually one of the qualities that most bothers me in another person, I understand her perspective and why this is important to her.

I don't think the current friction in our relationship is due to type clashes. It's based on choices we make. It is true that what I see as her disingenuous/fickle nature is much less tolerable to me now that we are in a different position, but this nature isn't what put us there. She has taken actions that are not inherent to INFJs which make me uncomfortable.

Each type has their strong points and their weak points, and areas that clash, but I don't think anyone is bound to them. We are all capable of compromise and working on rounding out our weaknesses. So it is really unfair to say that certain types can't be a good match. We are individuals, shaped by experience. What may be perceived as desirable type dynamics may not exist between two people of those types, and the reverse is true for undesirable dynamics.

All I mean to say is, don't blame personality labels for why a relationship doesn't work out. You and your friend/partner each amount to so much more than that.


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## Grad0507

NomadLeviathan said:


> I had a dear friend who was an INFP. There was a definite clash with his Fi and my Fe. His brazen nonchalance towards his own societal nonconformity and weirdness was frustrating - but his selfless dedication to those around him and sympathy for peoples he's never met was nothing short of astounding. Emotionally, his inner turmoil was beyond palpable, and it drove me mad that he would not let me help him.


Why are they not able to receive?!


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## Grad0507

Aelthwyn said:


> I haven't known many confirmed INFJs, I have one friend who I think probably is, but she is also bipolar so that kind of throws off perceptions there, and I had a roommate who was and we definitely had issues though I'm not sure he was ever aware of the issues I had with him as I was careful to avoid confrontations because I was terrified of getting on his bad side. I do try to balance those impressions with the ones of INFJs I've read posts from here though. I do have several INFP friends to compare with myself.
> 
> *Here are a few impressions of key clashing points - they may or may not be accurate and probably don't apply to everyone and I'm clearly biased so sorry if some of this sounds unflattering...
> 
> INFJs seem to *
> - expect others to follow a set of social rules and values that they see as universal and feel inclined to enforce it, and also get hurt/offended by people not following/respecting their set of social rules and values especially when they take for granted that everyone is aware of their set of values because it seems so obviously right/wrong to them.
> 
> - ask questions to show their interest and like to be asked about themselves rather than volunteering information, see talking about yourself as a bit self-centered
> 
> - comfortable with a 'directive' communication style, using wording that puts them in charge, tell others directly what they want them to do or how they think something should be. Are fairly comfortable operating within a hierarchy when they know where everyone fits into it, and can both give and take commands accordingly.
> 
> - place value on the opinions of certain people/groups they respect and like to know that their own opinions are backed up by the agreement of other reliable sources and will turn to those sources when uncertain for themselves, on the flipside they can feel very shaken by a lack of agreement on important points with people/groups that they normally respect and have an impulse to argue it out until consensus can be reached - while recognizing that agreeing to disagree may be necessary in some cases it's hard to really feel content with that. When arguing they may point to 'so-and-so agrees with me' as a reason they are right.
> 
> - have a greater tendency to resort to passive-agressiveness when offended by someone who isn't complying to how they think they should be, actively working against them behind the scenes, resulting in them also being more paranoid of others being out to get them specifically
> 
> *INFPs seem to*
> - be unaware of or unconcerned with social rules and see values as a much more personal/individual matter not to be preached and not something they need to conform to, they like people to 'share' their opinions and can be passionate about what they believe, but at the same time have a strong value that everyone _should_ be 'walking to the beat of his own drum'.
> 
> - share about themselves as an invitation for the other person to share, don't like to 'pry' by pestering people with questions and see it as respectful to let people choose whether or not to say anything, find it a bit haughty or aggressive when others 'interrogate' them while not volunteering anything themselves in return (possibly because they are waiting to be asked)
> 
> - strongly prefer an 'informative' communication style and see it as domineering when others state things directly or tell others what to do, easily feel intimidated by the directive approach and feel out of character when trying to take command like that themselves. Are very uncomfortable in a hierarchy and don't want to tell others what to do or be told what to do themselves, try to avoid that and tend to resent such situations.
> 
> - not be very bothered by the existence of opposite opinions, so long as no one is trying to push them to agree, and find it fairly easy to agree to disagree about something and move on. they don't have the compulsion to argue it out if everyone can just let eachother be, opinions are private matters - only you can decide what you think and they don't really feel like they have the right to pressure others to agree. They also tend not to find Who thinks what to be a very compelling reason to adopt a certain perspective and don't really look to others for guidance in forming their own opinions - agreement is nice of course but not that important. When arguing they are more likely to point to individual 'facts' or general trends they have seen for support rather than a specific person/group who supports their view.
> 
> - simply ignore and avoid others when they clash, not actively trying to get them back or passive-agressively put pressure on them, but instead just putting as much distance as they can, and if they can't they smile and nod at others while only _actually_ complying where absolutely necessary for their own survival - it's a very defensive stay out of my business and I'll stay out of yours vibe, as opposed to the more meddling passive-agressive approach.


This is why I feel like my INFP doesn't give a damn about getting to know me. Talking about myself is not something I do.


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## Grad0507

OrangeAppled said:


> INFJ - "What can _we_ do so that next time THIS doent happen? I know, what if we....[insert what YOU should do here]."


Yes, this. How else can someone adjust to a relationship if not with win-win solutions?


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## Librarylady

They never clashed with me, they just had different functions. I LOVE INFJ's, they're my favorite type ever and the type I emotionally connect to the best. In real life, I have a hard time getting along with the ISFP's more than anyone else, and they have my same dominant function.


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## pocketDrop

I think I might have some really good insight to this, because I am a (tentative) INFP who dated an ENFJ. 

I definitely agree that the main source of clash is between the judging functions. Between her and I, my biggest frustration was with how she handled the conflicts between us that come up in any relationship. 

She was never able and often refused, to explain how she felt about whatever conflict was popping up at the time. I was always assessing my feelings about the relationship, and was very good at communicating those feelings. But whenevet I brought up the conflict, she could never articulate hoe she felt. To help with this, I started bringing up the conflict and then letting her have some time to process her emotions. But even that wouldn't help her come to any explainable conclusions. This drove me insane, and I saw it as insensitive. Like she didn't care about the relationship enough to explain to me how she felt. In actuality, it was just a hard thing for her to do, as her Fe was so dependent on others and in context ME, rather than herself. 

I think something that bothered her, was the fact that I cam off as insensitive toward her friends at times. I didn't care for them. They seemed shallow and fake, and often times, especially compared to, I saw them unintelligent as well. And I was perfectly fine with them knowing that I didn't care for their company. Although, in my mind, I was extremely accomodating of them. She hated the fact that I wasn't willing to put on a face for them, and I hated that she expected/wanted me to. 

As for the Ne/Ni combo, I think that it is great. My ex absolutely loved getting lost in my long lists of possibilities, and enjoyed me sporadic thoughts. Especially when it came to our relationship. She loved all the ideas I had for us, and all the futures that I could see for us. And I loved her Ni and its ability to come to conclusions that I hadn't even considered. Although she rarely let out her intuitive side, when she did I loved. She was an amazing writer, and loved stories. I think our Ne and Ni were very complimentary of each other in this regard. Especially when out interests landed on the same topics. 

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## L P

Grad0507 said:


> Why are they not able to receive?!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I know as an INFP, I want to be able to do things myself, receiving makes me feel like I cannot do things myself and I will be relying on others my entire life. That's why I find it hard to receive.

Inferior Te wants autonomy, it's something longed for, and receiving from others always seems like you'll never become a self-sustainable responsible independent adult. Makes me feel like I'm doomed to becoming the person that lives in their parents basement for the rest of their lives because I can't take care of myself. Every handout is taken as "proof" that I can't take care of myself, so handouts start getting declined to prove to myself that I can survive on my own in the adult world.

This statement rings true for me " I'm tired of feeling like a child and a burden to everybody around me, I'll do for myself from now on". INFP proceeds and may still even fail at life at times, but now they run from getting help from others, because if so they'll never face this world on their own two feet.


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## Grad0507

Lord Pixel said:


> I know as an INFP, I want to be able to do things myself, receiving makes me feel like I cannot do things myself and I will be relying on others my entire life. That's why I find it hard to receive.
> 
> Inferior Te wants autonomy, it's something longed for, and receiving from others always seems like you'll never become a self-sustainable responsible independent adult. Makes me feel like I'm doomed to becoming the person that lives in their parents basement for the rest of their lives because I can't take care of myself. Every handout is taken as "proof" that I can't take care of myself, so handouts start getting declined to prove to myself that I can survive on my own in the adult world.
> 
> This statement rings true for me " I'm tired of feeling like a child and a burden to everybody around me, I'll do for myself from now on". INFP proceeds and may still even fail at life at times, but now they run from getting help from others, because if so they'll never face this world on their own two feet.


So maybe my ex was overcompensating because when an INFP is deep in debt, that's proof that maybe he's not as self-sufficient as he would like.


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## L P

Grad0507 said:


> So maybe my ex was overcompensating because when an INFP is deep in debt, that's proof that maybe he's not as self-sufficient as he would like.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Probably. If he was really stubborn, it probably was him trying to maintain his own image of himself being self-sufficient and overcompensating like you say for the lack thereof like you say.


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## Infinatewonderment

I think the way you've laid out your theory is very compelling, but I disagree with a few points. Mainly -"Whereas INFJs seem to be confident about their ability to structure and navigate and "shape", and they seem to jump in without considering how much feeling they really have for it (aka is it really IMPORTANT). This week they are vegan, the next week they decide they dont need to be; they abandon one group for another if they cannot get sufficient influence in it despite claiming the group's interests at heart; they push for a relationship to be serious and then back out not long later, etc. But because they are more often tidy, scheduled, and somewhat rigid in demeanor, they seem more "focused" to others. There is an internal fickleness, mentioned by Jung, that is hard for an INFP to respect." 


I have typed as an infj for 10 years and never, have I ever heard, been tossed to and frow- from idea to idea on every given whim. I even been labeled as "pious" at an earlier time. I am loyal to a fault in so many aspects of life. Especially when I commit to something or someone. That would be contrary to many ideals of the infj, and the examples of the well known humans who have been typed as such imho.
So I respectfully disagree.


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## calicobts

My clash with INFPs tend to be that they are very sensitive, triggered, irrational, and/ or too idealistic, compared to me (an INFJ). This is because Fe and Fi clash very hard. What I noticed in Fi users is that they tend to be more sensitive than Fe users because their focus is on their internal feelings.. rather external. So it prevents them from seeing other POVs or become very stubborn. 

This is only coming from my experience with underdeveloped/unhealthy INFPs, since I'm still a young adult... But I've even seen some older INFPs (teachers and etc) that were like this as well.


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## Daiz

There are 4 INFPs in my life.

One is really annoying because she disagrees with me all the time without actually knowing what she's talking about. Another INFP is spoiled, selfish drama queen who treats people badly. Basically, both these INFPs are childlike in bad ways.

The other two INFPs I know are my favourite people in the world. Kind, sensitive, creative, considerate. And so funny! They have quick wits and quirky delivery and it just makes them so much fun to be around. These two still have an innocence to them but I wouldn't call them childlike.


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## Silastar

This thread is basically INFPs turning themselves into their idealized image while depicting INFJs as some type of deformed cousin. I don't see how it can be helpful to understand differences.
I vehemently disagree with most of what has been written, especially because it really doesn't focus on the theory but the personal dislike for a type. 

Differences are:

Different functions. It has been stated by OP himself, yet no one bothered actually wondering what that meant inside the context of the theory. 

*INFJs and INFPs have two different dominant function. *

INFJs have a natural tendency to relate to the world through *Introverted Intuition* (Ni), which is a perceiving function focusing on the pattern behind the pattern. It synthesizes informations in order to create a comprehensive whole and reaching a sense of completeness. The Ni process is less conscious than most other functions: the user will not experience directly the whole process, but it will occur behind the scenes so-to-speak; it will receive its final product in the form of an insight, a vision or something akin to it. Given its synthetic nature, it is a forward-thinking function and grants a strong sense of foresight. 

INFPs have *Introverted Feeling* (Fi) as dominant function. It is a judging function focused on exploring and managing the subject’s own feeling tones. It concentrates / gives attention to the feelings of the subject. Fi begins to shape its worldview according to a personal value system which will serve as a way to understand the world and make choices. 

*On the subject of Fe.*



Aelthwyn said:


> INFJs seem to
> - expect others to follow a set of social rules and values that they see as universal and feel inclined to enforce it, and also get hurt/offended by people not following/respecting their set of social rules and values especially when they take for granted that everyone is aware of their set of values because it seems so obviously right/wrong to them.


No. This is too biased. Really. First of all – this may happen, but is not indicative of INFJs. INFPs actually do enforce their values as universal laws on occasion (ever heard of inferior Te?). I could just rephrase “set of social rules” with “personal values” and everything would work as fine for the INFP type. 

Fe vs. Fi
Now. Feeling functions have a natural tendency to relate to and understand feelings in a more accurate way than Thinking types. 
In the case of Fi, as said above, it focuses on the feeling tones of the subject. With Fe, instead, it seeks to mantain positive feeling tones, not only of the subject, but a bit of everyone. As it is a judging function, as time goes on it creates a system of ideas according to the informations gathered. 
Therefore, yes, FJ types adhere to a conduct they deem collective. But they do so not because they woke up and said “oh, this is how everyone should behave in my opinion!” but because they gathered a lot of feedback on people’s overall attitude and believe certain values should not be transgressed because of a motive they do not deem as important. What you wrote there could aswell be misguided Fi-Te.
They also tend to take for granted social values because people are, for the most part, aware of them. For example, a person making noise at three AM is very disturbing and should not happen unless there are special circumstances. A person listening to music without headphones on a pubblic transport is also very annoying and shouldn’t be done, because it clearly disturbs many people who don’t like loud noises. 

- Ni vs Fi: 
Ni-doms are more likely to have a contemplative and mystical (or old soul-like) nature. Ni is more contemplative than Fi and more encased within its own world. Fi-doms are more likely to express their own feelings and opinions directly, unlike Ni-doms, that often do not voice what is going on within their own heads directly, but may hint at it or “test the ground” as Ni gathers details before speaking.
While Fi-doms are much more warm and joyous. They restrain their feelings much less than Ni-doms. 

- INJ vs IFP.
INFPs display an attitude of outer receptiveness that is absent in INFJs. The latters do, in fact, have a more structured approach towards the outer world. 
However, inside their own world, INFJs are much more open-minded than INFPs, who are instead more thick-minded when they consider other people’s ideas unless they speak through the INFP’s very view of the world.

-Fi vs. Fe
FPs adopt an individualized approach to people – everyone is unique and should be allowed to discover and live his individuality to the fullest. FJs adopt a more standardized approach to people; there are values that are worthy of being chased indipendently from the person and are important to most people; they should be integrated in people’s lives. 

An important thing: FJs does so because it "believes" these values are genuinely superior, according to the information that is gathered.

I will speak later on of the “clash” between INFP and INFJ.


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## adumbrate

I think the clash is mostly from Fi/Fe more than Ni/Ne. To me I generally adore INFPs, but I hate it when they suddenly shut me out from their lives when they're upset, probably from something I've said or done, but they wouldn't tell me about it. I noticed this pattern in most Fi users (even in IxTJs) which is distraught for an INFJ to just feel like someone is mad at us without having no way to reach them. I understand that for Fi user, when they feel something, they need to dig deep into their own emotions, but silent treatment is one of the worst things to offer in a relationship with an xxFJ. It can cause xxFJs to resent the people who caused them pain and decided to never have anything to do with them again. At least that's my experience with at least two INFPs and one ISTJ that I've known.


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## Reila

I am bit wary of INFPs because of how passionate they are about what they value. That is simultaneously beautiful and obnoxious. I think they are lovely people if they don't jump on my throat when I disagree with them or criticize something they like, though. It is important for me to ask questions, sometimes the questions might bother an INFP, but there is no reason to take it as a personal attack.

I don't know about other INFJs, but I can be overly critical of things at time (Ti?) and I got in a situation where I was talking to this INFP girl about something, mostly complaining about the thing and she got so angry at me. It is not that INFJs don't get annoyed at criticism, we have Fe, after all, but I personally wouldn't call someone names because they dislike thing.

The girl admits herself that she isn't the most mentally healthy person out there, so this isn't exactly a portrait of INFPs, mind you. And even though this situation happened, she is usually really kind (and so passionate about things).

I don't think it is fair to call them irrational and "easily triggered", though. INFJs can be as easily triggered, the difference is that it is unlikely we will get angry and aggresive at someone for stepping on our values, but on the values of others instead.


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## Buoyant

An INFJ is just a punctual and tidy INFP with less freak flag and more follow through. My INFP friends tend to dress like bohemians and lumbersexuals, while my INFJ costume is more like a morose glamper. I prefer to drive when we go out because they are late for everything and their cars are disaster zones. We both love cats.


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## irregularpopcorn

Especially with the more Fe-esque IxFJs (and a fair amount of ESFJs and ENFJs), there's this... expectation that I have to act a certain way. 

I am mature enough to realize I cannot treat people like shit and expect them to respect me. But... aside from basic manners and basic decency, I tend to not tailor myself to make an especially good impression or what-have-you.

If they like me for the nerd I am, great. If they don't, I'm not going to pretend to be something else just for their approval. It simply doesn't matter that much to me - and I suppose that's it, it's all about me and my feelings, how they [FJs] see it, and that's not how they [FJs] roll. 

Granted, this has been mostly with regard to FJ's who feel they have some authority over me, like my grandmother and mother who still push me to act a certain way with the rest of the family despite the fact I am nearing 30. Less so with random friends/acquaintances/coworkers. xD


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## regoric

As an INFJ, I know a few INFPs who a tonne of emotional baggage.. I mean, we all have some for sure, but the INFPs I know just seem to be so much more burdened than anybody else.

I find them lovely people in small and measured doses.. I have a hard time spending too much time in their space.


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## TalNFJ

To sum it up shortly since I don't feel like writing huge texts I'd say from my exprience the INFJ & INFP can both be extreamly dogmatic and if their view of the world is too different it will probably lead to an unstable situation, more so than other combinations of types, but if it's not too bad just like any other two NFs connecting they can get lost happily together ina mutual world of balance, color and interesting things to talk about.


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## TwoHats

I'm an INFP and I think, plain and simple, that INFJs are lovely people. Probably one of my favourite types from MBTI.


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## Jaclyn

I love INFPs, I get along with them quite well for the most part. One was my best friend growing up. We always had deep conversations about life and love. We also complimented each other well - I helped bring mental clarity, emotional stability, and social guidance to her life, (I think anyway lol) and she brought deeper emotional depth, understanding, and genuine connection. 

There were definite areas of clashing though. She was terrible about following through with plans and she rarely initiated interaction with me, I would always have to be the one to initiate. She knew it was a weakness of hers and she tried to work on it, but really didn't progress much. She also had strong values about being loyal to blood family despite how they treated her, and I have never shared that perception. I always believed in being loyal to people who were also loyal in return, blood or not. This caused some dissension at times.

We eventually drifted apart but still remain in contact. She ended up marrying an INFJ oddly enough, and he's basically a male version of me lol.


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## OliveBranch

I've never clashed with any INFJ's. Maybe that is just me though, it is rare for me to clash with someone, unless we are family members or if there is a specific conflict arising in which they are on the opposing side. But I have never found INFJ's hard to understand. Besides my own type, I think a part of their personality is deeply hidden inside of me, and vice versa. More so than ENFJ's actually (as a mirror type).


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## HankSabbath

NomadLeviathan said:


> I had a dear friend who was an INFP. There was a definite clash with his Fi and my Fe. His brazen nonchalance towards his own societal nonconformity and weirdness was frustrating - but his selfless dedication to those around him and sympathy for peoples he's never met was nothing short of astounding. Emotionally, his inner turmoil was beyond palpable, and it drove me mad that he would not let me help him.


I have had this experience mutiple times, and I do not know their type, but they must have been Fe types. 

But yeah, it is not always turmoil, the whole adjusting your inner emotional state strictly to some outside arbitrary standard is just strange to me. So, I have to live in line with me, or something feels seriously wrong. Even notions of happiness are not simple or black and white to me. Above all else I just want things to feel and be real, but try explaining that to others.


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## entheos

hopebeat said:


> From my experience, I can handle INFPs on a more surface level. If we try to go deeper and take it further, then we have problems. We just seem to rub each other the wrong way. I don't think it's a good match for the long run.


This, in reverse lol
I can handle INFJs at surface level, without getting deep about each other we're good. The moment we attempt to get a tiny bit deep... I can't stand them.
I don't know if they can stand me, but I don't need to know lol Let's keep it superficial and it's all good.


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## Reila

entheos said:


> This, in reverse lol
> I can handle INFJs at surface level, without getting deep about each other we're good. The moment we attempt to get a tiny bit deep... I can't stand them.
> I don't know if they can stand me, but I don't need to know lol Let's keep it superficial and it's all good.


Why can't you stand INFJs in a deeper level, if I may ask? I am asking out of sheer curiosity.


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## entheos

Reila said:


> Why can't you stand INFJs in a deeper level, if I may ask? I am asking out of sheer curiosity.


 @OrangeAppled and @Aelthwyn explained it all super well on page... I think it was page 2 of this thread..? Reading those two posts was seriously WOW literally they explained my relationships with both INFJs and ENFJs to a t. But I surround myself with way more INFJs than ENFJs, way more, because of the nature of my hobbies and socializing, we have the same exact hobbies and interests so we end up in each other's lives. And the story repeats itself over and over and over. It's quite fascinating to watch it all unfold, if one detaches from the situation and looks at it as if it's a movie.


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## Arzazar Szubrasznikarazar

I don't know. INFJs can be seriously weird. Wouldn't be surprised if, like half of "INFJ"/"INFP" clashes described would be INFJ/INFJ or INFP/INFP or between different types altogether.


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## clem

I have an INFP friend and INFJ friend and when we met up I saw the Fi Fe clash. They get along great and they grow from their differences and conflict. They did it like for fun to tease each other. It was fun and informative to observe from 3rd person. But it was hard to stay neutral. Also, I felt like if I said something associative like with Ne, then I would have to balance by saying something conclusive like with Ni. Then neither side would feel disfavored. To navigate the Fi Fe clash I tried responding with some form of thinking or logical analysis but this just alienated both of them so I would try to make statements that had both Fi and Fe mixed together.


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## sippingcappucino

My perspective is similar to you.

Generally speaking, I don't get along with Fe. I feel smothered by it most of the times. However, I've found I really enjoy those with Ni-Se--I think I find it fascinating. So it can be a hit or miss. Having that said, one of my best friends is an INFJ. It was actually mostly her doing. She was fascinated in me, and was patient with my behavior. Time added up, and we understand our differences now. But I do be careful with Fe-users, since yes, my Fi is very strong and it can hurt and/or confuse them.


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## R22

Arzazar Szubrasznikarazar said:


> I don't know. INFJs can be seriously weird. Wouldn't be surprised if, like half of "INFJ"/"INFP" clashes described would be INFJ/INFJ or INFP/INFP or between different types altogether.


I think so too.

Also, I think it's one of those things, when there's conflict, what do you look to to explain that conflict? I like to look to enneagram type as well; also astrology, and family history (among other things). I do like to know a person's birthday so I know what I'm dealing with from an astrology perspective, preferably having the the year and location too so I can minimally have both the sun and moon sign. Sometimes the conflict can be a matter of two "fixed" signs (i.e stubborn) butting heads, or maybe there's disharmony and differences in the elements. Factor in culture, generation, life experience, traumas, family history (check out Bowen Family Theory for some fascinating info on that), and there can be a recipe for all kinds of conflict between people, for different reasons. 

With that being said, I don't think I personally ever had an issue with someone in real life who I suspected was an INFP. I actually feel kinship and a connection with other NF types. Although I did end a friendship with one INFP friend, who was very catty, and I believe had deep seeded issues with other females, but I don't think her being INFP had anything to do with it.


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## CelineDijon

True for me. INFJ give good advice but I'm much more of a prick at times and extreme. They are much more balanced in their views and also they consider everybody where as I consider people I think are worthy or people on the bottom in any situation. 

What frustrates me most about INFJs is, to me, they're very naive. They fall for a lot of philosophies like Buddhism and it can lead to victim blaming on their part. The whole accepting responsibility thing is a nice idea but the extent that they go to with it is unhealthy. They should indulge themselves a bit more as an INFP would with dominate Fi. 

It really is good for you, trust me.


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## ButIHaveNoFear

Something that both types should understand about the other is that:
INFPs are far more _rigid_ on the inside than they appear on the outside, and
INFJs are a lot more _flexible_ on the inside than they appear on the outside. 

It's something I got to learn in my friendship with an INFJ and living with her. As an INFP, my first instinct is to fume whenever she says something rigid-sounding through Fe that I disagree with. If I clam up, nothing will come of the situation. She won't know why I'm upset and she'll get upset too. The best thing to do is to speak up about a difference of opinion, suggesting an alternate option. Since you'll be speaking through Ne, your extroverted function, the INFJ's Ni will pick that up and most likely incorporate it into their own ideas. It won't seem like your idea will have an effect because of how strong the Fe statement seems, but it does make a difference. If you both have good self awareness and maintain pleasant, tolerant emotions around each other, you can be a really great team. 

We connect through iNtuition more than anything else. Fi-Fe is clashy because it's Judging. The rough thing about iNtuition is that Ni is the INFJ's dominant function and it is the INFP's auxiliary function. The INFJ is way more developed in iNtuition and most comfortable using it. A younger INFP, or an unhealthy INFP at any age, will not have a well-developed Ne. Fi _needs_ Ne to accept the presence of Fe. Otherwise Fi will become even more close-minded, like a singularity of judgement. (Like the unhealthy INFJ reaches a singularity of meaning if they don't use their extroverted functions.) Learn how to speak up. Help each other perceive things in a way you couldn't before.

My INFJ friend and I avoid personality conflict by doing creative things together. Our different functions supplement each other. I would credit spending time with her to opening up the usage of my Ne. I have the edge on her with idea _production_. She has the edge on idea _development_. She is able to present these ideas in a more natural progression than I could(extroverted judging). I am able to apply just the right mood and texture to them in the moment. We do a lot of improvisational songs with musical accompaniment, and they're really fun! Our last one was Ted the Pterodactyl confessing that he likes to eat children and hates beans. Yeah... 

Anyway, an INFP and INFJ _doing things_ together is magical. It's entertaining to everyone else, and there isn't a better idea factory or problem-solving agent out there. But if you don't work as a team or work against each other, your relationship won't work. Find some common interests and find some projects to do. There is a lot of energy here, and it would be a waste if you kept it inside because you're upset at each other.


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## I am justice!

my INFPs friends can't stand my INFJs friends


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## Kelly Kapowski

CelineDijon said:


> The whole accepting responsibility thing is a nice idea but the extent that they go to with it is unhealthy. They should indulge themselves a bit more as an INFP would with dominate Fi.
> 
> It really is good for you, trust me.


1) I can’t see your username without laughing and
2) I’ve been thinking a lot about the topic of accepting responsibility lately. I do see myself as occasionally taking it to an unhealthy level (and having those unreasonable expectations on others at times :frustrating. Anything else feels internally selfish & thus I pummel myself with guilt if I don’t accept responsibility fer erry. dayum. thing.


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## Kelly Kapowski

This is a very enlightening thread, thank you! Some of it was uncomfortable to read, but I learned a lot about the INFP POV. I have a newish friend that I’m still getting to know & she’s INFP. I can see some areas where we may not be on the same page, but so far overall we both really just make each other laugh. I adore her quirkiness, I’ve never met anyone like her. I’m going to keep in mind all the comments I’ve read here & take them into consideration with how I may be coming across. erc3:


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## twistedblade056

hopebeat said:


> From my experience, I can handle INFPs on a more surface level. If we try to go deeper and take it further, then we have problems. We just seem to rub each other the wrong way. I don't think it's a good match for the long run.


Care to elaborate?


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## Sygma

Relationships with Fi dom or Aux can be very hit and miss ... for all I know the two persons who understood me the most were INTJ and INFP. Can't say I miss the INTJ, but I really really miss the INFP. It's just a question of maturity and communication at the end of the day, if you can't connect with an INFP just let it go


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## adacis

My best friend from college is an INFJ. It's funny because we did start out clashing during our freshman year, but leaving as seniors after graduation, it was really tough to realize I'd be flying to the other side of the country back home and wouldn't be seeing her again for who knows how long... When we talked last online, she even told me I'm the first person she thinks of that's outside of her family. I thought of her as my closest friend, she thought the same way; it's really rare to find a mutual friendship on such a equal, perfect level.

It's really a matter of maturity that will make the INFJ-INFP relationship work or not. When we were fresh-out-of-high-school teens, we were predictably stupid. Issues that came up were: I found her opinions super superficial at times (her Se VS my Ne, and Fi VS Fe when we talked about morality problems), I would find her rude and sometimes selfish (her open Fe VS my sensitive Fi), I believe she also found me selfish at times but in a different way (my self-centered Fi + we grew up with different values in general... When I asked her for favors I suppose it was asking too much of her). I still look back and think her rude moments were still pretty bad... I'd say her Fe was not put to good use in those moments. And I definitely had weaknesses with my Fi, for I was passive aggressive and I would subtly distance myself from her for the first two years; it's not a mature way to resolve an issue lol. I think she had picked up my actions, because she kept away from me too for a while, and I could tell she was feeling lonely later on without my company.

I can't remember what made me forgive her later on, but I definitely approached her again our junior year and she welcomed me back warmly. It might've been a little slow with some wariness, but it steadily came back faster and faster. Iirc, she finally got her mental illnesses treated, which I do think made a huge difference in her behavior. She was more critical of herself and was so determined on self-improvement. I was the same way for self-improvement. I'm not sure if that's a general INFJ/INFP thing, but the subject of self-improvement REALLY connected us together. We'd always give each other advice and we were open to each other's opinions. She appreciated my emotional values and approaches to problem solving, and I appreciated her logical way of thinking and her impersonal openness. We were able to give each other different points of views. It was truly fantastic.

To be honest though, even though she might've scoffed at me at times during the phase we didn't get along, I never knew for sure if she really disliked me. When she would be a little rude with me, I don't believe she took it so personally, unlike me. Before I approached her and built up our friendship again, our mutual ENFP friend told me that she really liked me as a friend... I might've felt some guilt after hearing that. I feel like my INFJ friend had always appreciated me from the start, she always told me she was fascinated with INFPs' Fi. She truly does have a Ni-Ti mind, because she's always interested in learning new and different things--she even said she loved to be proved wrong in arguments!

So while INFPs and INFJs function entirely differently, we can absolutely find our similarities in our interests and passions. When an INFP and an INFJ have grown enough, they will be open to each other's different principles and approaches to life, use those differences as support, and come to meaningful conclusions!


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## iblameyou

adacis said:


> My best friend from college is an INFJ. It's funny because we did start out clashing during our freshman year, but leaving as seniors after graduation, it was really tough to realize I'd be flying to the other side of the country back home and wouldn't be seeing her again for who knows how long... When we talked last online, she even told me I'm the first person she thinks of that's outside of her family. I thought of her as my closest friend, she thought the same way; it's really rare to find a mutual friendship on such a equal, perfect level.
> 
> It's really a matter of maturity that will make the INFJ-INFP relationship work or not. When we were fresh-out-of-high-school teens, we were predictably stupid. Issues that came up were: I found her opinions super superficial at times (her Se VS my Ne, and Fi VS Fe when we talked about morality problems), I would find her rude and sometimes selfish (her open Fe VS my sensitive Fi), I believe she also found me selfish at times but in a different way (my self-centered Fi + we grew up with different values in general... When I asked her for favors I suppose it was asking too much of her). I still look back and think her rude moments were still pretty bad... I'd say her Fe was not put to good use in those moments. And I definitely had weaknesses with my Fi, for I was passive aggressive and I would subtly distance myself from her for the first two years; it's not a mature way to resolve an issue lol. I think she had picked up my actions, because she kept away from me too for a while, and I could tell she was feeling lonely later on without my company.
> 
> I can't remember what made me forgive her later on, but I definitely approached her again our junior year and she welcomed me back warmly. It might've been a little slow with some wariness, but it steadily came back faster and faster. Iirc, she finally got her mental illnesses treated, which I do think made a huge difference in her behavior. She was more critical of herself and was so determined on self-improvement. I was the same way for self-improvement. I'm not sure if that's a general INFJ/INFP thing, but the subject of self-improvement REALLY connected us together. We'd always give each other advice and we were open to each other's opinions. She appreciated my emotional values and approaches to problem solving, and I appreciated her logical way of thinking and her impersonal openness. We were able to give each other different points of views. It was truly fantastic.
> 
> To be honest though, even though she might've scoffed at me at times during the phase we didn't get along, I never knew for sure if she really disliked me. When she would be a little rude with me, I don't believe she took it so personally, unlike me. Before I approached her and built up our friendship again, our mutual ENFP friend told me that she really liked me as a friend... I might've felt some guilt after hearing that. I feel like my INFJ friend had always appreciated me from the start, she always told me she was fascinated with INFPs' Fi. She truly does have a Ni-Ti mind, because she's always interested in learning new and different things--she even said she loved to be proved wrong in arguments!
> 
> So while INFPs and INFJs function entirely differently, we can absolutely find our similarities in our interests and passions. When an INFP and an INFJ have grown enough, they will be open to each other's different principles and approaches to life, use those differences as support, and come to meaningful conclusions!


Sounds like you have a good friend right there! My closes friends have been Fi dom or aux and my roommate is an ISFP. I went to my INFP friend's bridal shower, and one of her game was matching leading men quotes from classical books such as Pride and Prejudice, Emma, and Tales of Two Cities. I thought to myself, wow, this is such an [INFP] (using her type to fill in for her name) but she is an INFP. It was the cutest thing because the theme was based on her favorite flower which she has strong Fi and Si association with it. 

I am also very, very thankful for most of my positive experiences with INFPs because it's hard for me to talk negative about them. Most of them are healthy and mature so we get along quite well. We shared our differences to understand each other. They have their own flaws just like I do, and I can be quick to forgive if the person apologizes genuinely even though I harbor the offense emotions for awhile. 

I don't know many immature INFPs, but with FPs in general, my only complaint is feeling judged. Sometimes they feel judged by me when I am not even judging. I feel judged by them already. Sometimes I also experience FPs to be hypocrites. They see what they want to see. Believe they want to believe. Enforce their values onto others because if it makes sense to them it should make sense to others.

But overall, I think Fi is an interesting function. It doesn’t make sense to outsiders but only to the person who possesses it.


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## adacis

iblameyou said:


> Sounds like you have a good friend right there! My closes friends have been Fi dom or aux and my roommate is an ISFP. I went to my INFP friend's bridal shower, and one of her game was matching leading men quotes from classical books such as Pride and Prejudice, Emma, and Tales of Two Cities. I thought to myself, wow, this is such an [INFP] (using her type to fill in for her name) but she is an INFP. It was the cutest thing because the theme was based on her favorite flower which she has strong Fi and Si association with it.
> 
> I am also very, very thankful for most of my positive experiences with INFPs because it's hard for me to talk negative about them. Most of them are healthy and mature so we get along quite well. We shared our differences to understand each other. They have their own flaws just like I do, and I can be quick to forgive if the person apologizes genuinely even though I harbor the offense emotions for awhile.
> 
> I don't know many immature INFPs, but with FPs in general, my only complaint is feeling judged. Sometimes they feel judged by me when I am not even judging. I feel judged by them already. Sometimes I also experience FPs to be hypocrites. They see what they want to see. Believe they want to believe. Enforce their values onto others because if it makes sense to them it should make sense to others.
> 
> But overall, I think Fi is an interesting function. It doesn’t make sense to outsiders but only to the person who possesses it.


I can definitely see the Fi and Si association with your friend's bridal shower theme. If I'm out shopping, I'm usually disinterested in buying anything unless I find a way to connect it to my interests. For example, my mom has been trying HARD to get me into purses for years. I never cared about a single one until my brother bought me a fox purse for my birthday. Foxes are my favorite animals lol!

I also agree with you that we FPs can be hypocrites and unforgivingly judgmental. I went to art school, which is PACKED full of INFPs and ISFPs. All of them, including me, were all touchy and secretly judgy. Strangely, I discovered that I couldn't get too close with plenty of INFPs. I surmise it's because we're mutually staying in our own shells, and it's always so hard to get us out of there lol. I also think it's because of our different Fi values and upbringing. I've found that while it's easy to talk to them, it's not necessarily easy to connect with them. I've been closer with ISFPs weirdly enough, but most of them have ended up with me judging them and slowly cutting it off. Apparently the combination of super stubborn Fi + Se's way of taking things at face value drives me easily crazy, especially when the ISFP is unhealthy or in a constantly stressed situation. I'm not saying ISFPs are collectively bad, I think I just happened to be around a lot of young adults in the processing of maturing. On the bright side of ISFPs, they're pretty refreshing for bringing me back down to earth when I'm being weird in my head.

As a Fi-dom myself, I'm not even confident I could explain Fi, especially because of the vastly different values and experiences. However I can understand their assessments of judgments. It's easy to follow their logic when you keep in mind it's all bias, and that bias roots from some experience that made them comfortable/uncomfortable. And yes they certainly will project the way they think onto others--I think INFPs can easily do this more because we can be confident in placing ourselves in other's shoes via Ne, so we may think, "If I can think like this, it's possible someone else is capable of thinking like this too." While we can be good at picturing at how other people feel, it's only to an extent because we're ultimately individualistic, haha.

Being judgmental is always going to be a part of FPs which sounds negative at first, but judgments can be developed to be fair. The key is self-awareness. Personally, I loathed myself for judging negatively so often and being unable to stop it. I found peace by simply owning up to the fact that I'd be a jerk at times. I figured the only way to become a better person was to watch my actions/thoughts and re-evaluate a judgment when there's a possible hole. I think it's because of careful introspection of myself that my friends can tolerate my judgmentalness. I was actually surprised one time when a friend called me "open-minded and understanding." It's possible to be judgmental in a healthy way. roud:


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## iblameyou

adacis said:


> I can definitely see the Fi and Si association with your friend's bridal shower theme. If I'm out shopping, I'm usually disinterested in buying anything unless I find a way to connect it to my interests. For example, my mom has been trying HARD to get me into purses for years. I never cared about a single one until my brother bought me a fox purse for my birthday. Foxes are my favorite animals lol!
> 
> I also agree with you that we FPs can be hypocrites and unforgivingly judgmental. I went to art school, which is PACKED full of INFPs and ISFPs. All of them, including me, were all touchy and secretly judgy. Strangely, I discovered that I couldn't get too close with plenty of INFPs. I surmise it's because we're mutually staying in our own shells, and it's always so hard to get us out of there lol. I also think it's because of our different Fi values and upbringing. I've found that while it's easy to talk to them, it's not necessarily easy to connect with them. I've been closer with ISFPs weirdly enough, but most of them have ended up with me judging them and slowly cutting it off. Apparently the combination of super stubborn Fi + Se's way of taking things at face value drives me easily crazy, especially when the ISFP is unhealthy or in a constantly stressed situation. I'm not saying ISFPs are collectively bad, I think I just happened to be around a lot of young adults in the processing of maturing. On the bright side of ISFPs, they're pretty refreshing for bringing me back down to earth when I'm being weird in my head.
> 
> As a Fi-dom myself, I'm not even confident I could explain Fi, especially because of the vastly different values and experiences. However I can understand their assessments of judgments. *It's easy to follow their logic when you keep in mind it's all bias, and that bias roots from some experience that made them comfortable/uncomfortable. And yes they certainly will project the way they think onto others--*I think INFPs can easily do this more because we can be confident in placing ourselves in other's shoes via Ne, so we may think, "If I can think like this, it's possible someone else is capable of thinking like this too." While we can be good at picturing at how other people feel, it's only to an extent because we're ultimately individualistic, haha.
> 
> Being judgmental is always going to be a part of FPs which sounds negative at first, but judgments can be developed to be fair. The key is self-awareness. Personally, I loathed myself for judging negatively so often and being unable to stop it. I found peace by simply owning up to the fact that I'd be a jerk at times. I figured the only way to become a better person was to watch my actions/thoughts and re-evaluate a judgment when there's a possible hole. I think it's because of careful introspection of myself that my friends can tolerate my judgmentalness. I was actually surprised one time when a friend called me "open-minded and understanding." It's possible to be judgmental in a healthy way. roud:


I do agree there's a difference between being judgmental and making judgments. It all depends on what the person values and what do they seek. Sometimes I find myself judging others for some-to-no particular reasons and when I become self-aware in my moment of thinking I realize I am projecting what I think they are thinking about me when the truth is I am judging them. I am training myself to stop in the middle of thinking when it's affecting my posture of attitude and skewed my perception of people. Sometimes my judgments are shallow. Sometimes I judge through my values. Sometimes I cannot pin-point why I do not like a particular place or person with no prior experience, and I think it annoys my roommate because I judge others without getting to know them. 

And one of my reasons why I get frustrated is they are quick to self-reference their experiences onto others. I don’t particularity like when self-reference is used to explain others' experiences outside of self and I feel this has been my experience with Fi. I feel like my experience is being invalidated. But because she has experience being judged, she understands what it feels like to be judged. However, they are her emotions, not mine or his. Sometimes _I feel_ she's saying her experience is true for her, therefore, it's true for others. Most of the time it doesn't bother me when people are being judgmental. What bothers me when people tell me to 'do as I say not as I do'. I think if the message to me was say, for example, "I don't want you to smoke because I do and it's horrible and I don't want to see you experience what I am experiencing", then I can bring myself to step back and be slow to anger. <-- Maybe this will give me a different perspective. I just thought about this actually. Maybe that's what she was trying to say but my mind wasn't computing with her values. I don't feel like this is the intention with our (my roommate and I) conversations at all. 

And correct me if I'm wrong but I am noticing a pattern between Fi-users (online and irl): It seems Fi does not like to be generalize so self-reference is used to express their individuality.


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## Row

Never had a problem with INFJs IRL, in fact we usually get along pretty well! One of my friends is an INFJ, we share different interests but we're ALWAYS on the same wavelength it's uncanny! The only thing I wish he didn't do is "the vanish" where he just disappears for a while... but then again I do the same so it doesn't really bother me. All in all the INFJs I've met were really nice


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## adacis

iblameyou said:


> I do agree there's a difference between being judgmental and making judgments. It all depends on what the person values and what do they seek. Sometimes I find myself judging others for some-to-no particular reasons and when I become self-aware in my moment of thinking I realize I am projecting what I think they are thinking about me when the truth is I am judging them. I am training myself to stop in the middle of thinking when it's affecting my posture of attitude and skewed my perception of people. Sometimes my judgments are shallow. Sometimes I judge through my values. Sometimes I cannot pin-point why I do not like a particular place or person with no prior experience, and I think it annoys my roommate because I judge others without getting to know them.
> 
> And one of my reasons why I get frustrated is they are quick to self-reference their experiences onto others. I don’t particularity like when self-reference is used to explain others' experiences outside of self and I feel this has been my experience with Fi. I feel like my experience is being invalidated. But because she has experience being judged, she understands what it feels like to be judged. However, they are her emotions, not mine or his. Sometimes _I feel_ she's saying her experience is true for her, therefore, it's true for others. Most of the time it doesn't bother me when people are being judgmental. What bothers me when people tell me to 'do as I say not as I do'. I think if the message to me was say, for example, "I don't want you to smoke because I do and it's horrible and I don't want to see you experience what I am experiencing", then I can bring myself to step back and be slow to anger. <-- Maybe this will give me a different perspective. I just thought about this actually. Maybe that's what she was trying to say but my mind wasn't computing with her values. I don't feel like this is the intention with our (my roommate and I) conversations at all.
> 
> And correct me if I'm wrong but I am noticing a pattern between Fi-users (online and irl): It seems Fi does not like to be generalize so self-reference is used to express their individuality.


I've seen people say they think Fe-users understand emotions better than Fi-users because they don't do the whole, "I experienced this myself, therefore I know your experience," thing. I see why. Having your experiences feel invalidated because of a comment like that is reasonable.

I think that's a matter of interpretation though. There's a negative and a positive way of looking at it.

I don't speak for all people, but certainly some people self-reference because they are trying to reach and understand you. They aren't necessarily saying, "I know *exactly* what you're feeling," it's more, "I've had some sort of experience like that. I'm not you, but I _kind of_ get you." I'd say it's a different form of comforting and relating to someone. In general, when people share personal anecdotes with others, friendships strengthen.

Like I said though, that's only _some_ people who self-reference with good intentions. There are attention-seekers who will shift the conversation and make it all about themselves. That's when the situation becomes different, and can apply to what you said about self-referencing. So it all depends on the person's character, intentions, and level of maturity. You'll have to assess if the person is being sincere or not.

I'm not sure for ISFPs, but in INFPs self-reference certainly happens because of Fi-Si more than individual expression. If I'm not paying attention to my current surroundings, my thoughts automatically default to memories. I could be thinking about something from 10 years ago randomly or an event that recently passed. I'm not sure why that happens haha, but if I could help it my thoughts wouldn't be there all the time. Fi-Si loops are easy to fall into. If anything, it's inadvertent individual expression, because it's still thinking about our feelings and experiences lol. So with our experiences on our minds a lot, it's very easy to say in conversation, "Hey, this reminds me of that one time..."


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## Srijita

adumbrate said:


> Hmm.. I got it. It'd be frustrated to have your value invaded without being completely validated. But sometimes I wonder if Fi and Fe users have a different perception of 'communication' and not realizing it? Fe users may feel like you need to be more straightforward and Fi users feel like that's being overly dramatic, while Fi may feel like the hints of slight emotional expressions are enough but Fe users may not count those as being 'expressive' at all. Just my theory.


That's a good point. I feel like some of this is probably an introversion - extroversion problem too. Fi being an introverted function is probably less expressive than Fe would like it to be? I know that sometimes I struggle with expressing my deep feelings, or even if I do express them, it can come off in a random manner (Ne), which sometimes Ni/Si types feel are a little too out there and less precise.


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## Surreal Snake

I like INFPs no problem here


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