# Your random epiphany of the day...



## hal0hal0 (Sep 1, 2012)

@Veggie @mushr00m in the words of my [late] math teacher: "I just had an epiphany... and it hurt!"_

A repository of thoughts to dump
To get you out of that slump._

This is "borderline" relevant to enneagram, but feel free to post random insights, epiphanies or revelations about how silly you are being, self-defeating, self-deceiving, etc. and words, sayings, pictures, etc., that help ground you and get out of that rut you put yourself in.

To start: _*Life is about 5% decision-making and 95% waiting for things to happen. But oh, the power of that 5%...*_


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## Animal (May 29, 2012)

Randomness may be an illusion. There may a pattern we do not yet recognize.

:,)


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## Pressed Flowers (Oct 8, 2014)

I should really start checking my email. Just did two hours of work for a class that is cancelled.


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## Veggie (May 22, 2011)

@hal0hal0 -









 

Hmmm, epiphanies...


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## Roland Khan (May 10, 2009)

Everybody really does poop....





It matters not whether I sleep or wake, despair is found in both my dreams and cake


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## ScientiaOmnisEst (Oct 2, 2013)

Some things in my life are never going to change. I need to stop over-thinking them, analyzing them, emotionally punching myself in the face over them, and generally allowing myself to be defeated into apathy. So much apathy....

Of course, right now, trying to motivate myself to do anything isn't too unlike trying to light a lab burner with a faulty striker. No matter how many times I click it, there might be a spark here or there, but getting one to actually light a fire is rather slow and frustrating. Pushing doesn't work, trying to start slow and gain momentum doesn't work....


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## Golden Rose (Jun 5, 2014)

Time is everything.

Whether for detecting and understanding patterns, recollecting memories, introspecting or waiting for a moment when a decision feels just right. But a person's perception of time passing is extremely subjective so keeping everything in perspective is important.


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## Veggie (May 22, 2011)




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## Grandmaster Yoda (Jan 18, 2014)

There may be no humans in a perfect world.


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## 0+n*1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Veggie said:


>


This is very sad.

One epiphany:
I realized the other day that being so aware of your faults and lamenting for them (focusing on them, making them occupy space in your inner chatter) can give you an illusion that you're honest and facing them, that you're in the right path, but really you're just putting it off and it's a contrived way of being dishonest (you say/think too much that you don't want to go on with destructive behaviors, but not seeing results makes you wonder if there's a will, there's a way, it makes you wonder if you truly want them to stop).


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## ScientiaOmnisEst (Oct 2, 2013)

Second random epiphany of the day: I've internalized more from my upbringing than I would like to admit. And not necessarily good stuff either.


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## knife (Jul 10, 2013)

Restraint is sometimes harder than letting your passions burn.


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## mushr00m (May 23, 2011)




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## Stribog (Jul 13, 2012)

Today, I was pissy when there were restrictions placed on my freedom (classic teen/parent situation). I thought it was slightly unfair that so many variables depended on my parents laziness or not. But then as I was sitting there, I realized this entire hypocrisy I failed to see. Just as a parent in many situations has control over their child's life, I, just as a human being, was in the same role as my parents when it came to our pet dogs. Now of course, dogs awareness can't compare to a human's perspective, but even for a dog, being stuck inside all day every day must be really really boring. I felt very guilty that I dared complain about the "injustice" of the parent-child relationship, when I was equally as bad on the miniature scale of pet owner-pet relationship. Just a little bit I found incredibly... moving, almost.


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## 0+n*1 (Sep 20, 2013)

I was watching old recorded videos of a younger me and it was very painful to watch because I was as bitter and insecure as I am today. I haven't improved a bit.


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## hal0hal0 (Sep 1, 2012)

IDK, I feel like every epiphany I have has an Achilles' heel where you can poke holes in it/burst the bubble, LMAO (although... I tend to view them with a sense of humor, which itself is sort of an epiphany; I read somewhere that enlightenment is more like a moment of laughter, such as getting a joke):

The great thing about being a pessimist is you're usually right about everything; and on the rare occasion you're wrong, that's a good thing... of course, thinking this way actually makes you an optimist, therefore, you're not so great.









^But what if the story is Hamlet? Or worse, The White Ribbon? Or Antichrist?









Unless you're in a coma for a few years... then again, maybe we're all just asleep. I actually kind of hope that's true.









And if no one remembers it?

^Although, that in itself can be pretty liberating... there is always pressure to live up to expectation, whether through ascribing others' expectations (introjection) or trying to liver up to some inner ideal (superego). Sometimes, it helps me to see that in the grand scheme of things, my fuckups won't matter. I often find some sort of perfectionism holding me back... in pretty much anything; school, work, drawing, etc... that makes me self-defeat and say "why bother trying at all?" Sometimes pridefulness is in there too, which ties up into some sort of idealism.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200802/pitfalls-perfectionism

^ Not perfectionism in enneagram terms. In a sense, all enneagram types strive for an inner ideal (ego-ideal/ego-fixation) that they feel the need in order to be whole, safe, validated, etc.) so all enneagram fixations are perfectionism... the attempt to live up to a particular ego-ideal (I tend to like the "life lessons" approach of enneagram, where upbringing ingrains a particular belief that enneagram types view as "got a hammer; everything looks like a nail."

On a similar note, I am sort of "over" this video, but I find that different phrases come to the forefront from time to time...






and the perfectionism may look good in his shiny shoes, but he's a little bit of an asshole and nobody invites him to their pool parties (not that I really want to go to pool parties, btw).

In this case, _"when I eat my critique, let me be able to separate the good advice from the bitter herbs"_ seems to be more relevant to me than it was.

And

"god let me enjoy this; life isn't just a series of waiting for things to happen."



Animal said:


> Randomness may be an illusion. There may a pattern we do not yet recognize.
> 
> :,)


And sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar .



Veggie said:


>


It runs the other way, too... are the people in business suits being a slave to professional conduct codes or are they all secretly wearing Sponge Bob underwear and having a party in their heads?


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)




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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)




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## Veggie (May 22, 2011)




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## 0+n*1 (Sep 20, 2013)

I talk to myself out loud. A lot. And it has increased over the years. I guess most people do it, but I feel like it has reached a point where I feel unhealthy doing it. I feel like I cannot avoid it and it embarrasses me when others catch me doing it. It also makes me feel weak because it appears to me that it is a signal that I crave company or others' attention and that makes me feel less empowered. It makes me think that I want to be heard so badly, so desperately, like crying out loud for some attention, like my life depended on it. Or if I feel pathetic because I feel weak because I need others, it makes me think that I've replaced others in my conversation with myself because it is easier that way and I feel weak because I don't make an effort to get out of my shell. Sometimes I feel I will become one of those crazy and sad loners in public transportation talking to themselves out loud or ranting about things no one understands and that no one cares about. I don't want to be that sad.


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## ScientiaOmnisEst (Oct 2, 2013)

My loneliness is my own fault and I have no right to complain or feel bad about it. I've been pushing people away since childhood, what did I expect, and more importantly, why the hell do I care now and how do I switch it off?

An epiphany and a couple of follow-ups, I guess.


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## Veggie (May 22, 2011)




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## Scarlet_Heart (Oct 11, 2014)

I never thought I had a "type" in terms of men I was attracted to. And then I looked back at all of my adolescent crushes and realized they had a lot in common. 

They were all very intelligent, very serious, and very cute. Examples: "Brandon" (Jason Priestly) from 90210 and "Lucas" (Jonathan Brandis) from Seaquest DSV. 

And I ended up marrying a guy just like that: a super serious, smart (and gorgeous) engineer.

I know it sounds trivial but it blew my mind when I discovered the pattern. It made me think about the validity of this personality typing stuff. I was always the way I am (ENTP) and I was always attracted to INTJ before I even knew about personality type compatibility.

PS- I never understood girls who liked the bad boy. Every girl loved Dylan, but my heart belonged to Brandon, lol. :tongue:


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## Veggie (May 22, 2011)

^ People understand your story at different times for different reasons. Some may never, but it makes the connections with those who do more special and meaningful.


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## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

"An honorable human relationship — that is, one in which two people have the right to use the word “love” — is a process, delicate, violent, often terrifying to both persons involved, a process of refining the truths they can tell each other. It is important to do this because it breaks down human self-delusion and isolation. It is important to do this because in doing so we do justice to our own complexity. It is important to do this because we can count on so few people to go that hard way with us. It isn’t that to have an honorable relationship with you, I have to understand everything, or tell you everything at once, or that I can know, beforehand, everything I need to tell you. It means that most of the time I am eager, longing for the possibility of telling you. That these possibilities may seem frightening, but not destructive, to me. That I feel strong enough to hear your tentative and groping words. That we both know we are trying, all the time, to extend the possibilities of truth between us.

The possibility of life between us."










"Feeling hurt is passive; feeling angry is active."

"I identify far more readily with outsiders, losers, failures, rejects, misfits, “freaks” than with the successful; which leads me to conclude that everyone does (with the possible exception of the frankly unfortunate, who must desperately identify with—want to identify with—success). As I am, so I assume others are. […] For I’m not a remarkable person. Only, perhaps, keenly interested in how we are constituted, why we behave as we do."

"But perhaps loneliness is the human condition. Broken intermittently by flashes of something else: camaraderie, friendship, “love.” Too much social life & one hungers for seclusion. Too much seclusion & one hungers for social life. A pendulum back and forth. No rest, no stasis. I really don’t know…do I need people very much, or is it all a kind of illusion, surrounding oneself with friends, imagining needs, connections, exchanges…? How does one _know the first truth about oneself?"

_"We celebrate our changes of character by altering our personal appearance."


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

Things that are difficult right now are only difficult from this vantage point.
There are lots of vantage points that makes your problem simple.


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## Sixty Nein (Feb 13, 2011)

That this forum is a glorified collection of tumblr snippits.


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## hal0hal0 (Sep 1, 2012)

The early bird gets the worm... and is also a murderer.
@Veggie RE our conversation:


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## Roland Khan (May 10, 2009)

99% sure I have aspergers...:kitteh:


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## Veggie (May 22, 2011)

@hal0hal0 - I was typing you based not on stereotypes. I said this.


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## Golden Rose (Jun 5, 2014)




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## 0+n*1 (Sep 20, 2013)

The whole The Dictionary of Obscure Sorrows series belongs here

Here are some


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## Veggie (May 22, 2011)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

It's taken me so long to realize and own this.


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## Persephone Soul (Mar 27, 2015)

What if I am actually in a coma. And when I am using the pot, I am really in a hospital bed, with a catheter and poop bag. And my family is watchin me have a bowel, while laying there...?


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## 0+n*1 (Sep 20, 2013)

I will try to explain something that happens to me. Last time I posted the Dictionary of Obscure Sorrows series that tries to explain weird feelings that are difficult to put into words and the first one I posted I did because I relate to it the most. He calls it onism, the awareness of how little of the world you will experience. It's one of the defining aspects of my life. Maybe it wasn't present when I was a kid, but growing up, I started to become highly aware of the things I haven't done, the things I haven't experienced, seen, heard, tasted, felt. I have felt left out a lot of times in my life because I cannot relate to others' experience. I feel like I am always trying to catch up. Never ahead of the game. Always learning, never the mentor. Primitive. The younger brother. Receiving advise, never giving it. Not wise. Inexperienced. Like my story hasn't unfolded. Or hasn't begun. I feel like I've been living under a rock for years. As the video says, it is incredible anyone will feel at home in such an alien world. I am not the alien. And I hate this feeling because I feel like everything else is the standard and I am not keeping up. It's comforting to know you know something others haven't experienced, that you have something to offer. I cannot count how many times I have envied others because they know more about the world than me, they have done more, experienced more, seen more, heard more, tasted more, felt more, are more than me. It's one of the main points of comparison. My life seems so dull and ordinary in comparison. I get overwhelmed by all the things I need to get around to do. And I feel anxious because I don't know where to start. And I also don't want to waste my time, something so precious but so scarce. I started to develop a desire to feel the sensation of having already amassed experiences without flinching or moving a finger or batting an eye. A desire to absorb by osmosis. Even if the experience is enjoyable, I don't care. I don't care about the process, I just want the result. Now. Without exerting my will. Without making an effort. That's why I don't care about spoilers. Reveal me everything. If I weren't so lazy. If I weren't so fearful. The funny (not really funny) part is that I waste more time thinking about what I could be doing with my life now than what I am actually doing with it.


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## Golden Rose (Jun 5, 2014)




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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

But, I like it
Because it is bitter,
And because it is my heart.


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## Veggie (May 22, 2011)

Wine, rain, acoustic guitar, open covered patio, solitude but surrounded by strangers - may be the best medicine for moodiness. Why am I so depressed today though really? It's kind of adding to the experience though. Lol.


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## Veggie (May 22, 2011)

Omg and now he's playing Jimmy Buffet and I jinxed it. Play music that makes me wanna cryyyy.


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## 7rr7s (Jun 6, 2011)

I think I put it off in order to scare myself. I think I need that fear, that element of risk for it to really do it for me. Because at the last minute when the deadline is approaching, I use it to fuel me. There have only been a few times I've failed that way, and I think it was because I didn't put enough of myself on the line to care about it.


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## Veggie (May 22, 2011)

hal0hal0 said:


> Which is the point of the quote? :laughing:


You don't need to laugh at me, lol. It's really not that obvious. I was making two separate points too. "Knowing" isn't all about an outside perspective or forming conclusions by compare/contrast. Knowing comes from complete immersion imo sometimes as well. Like Peter Pan knowing how to fly but not being able to break it down at first when asked how to do it in a specific language. Didn't mean that he didn't know how to though, or that he couldn't explain to someone in a shared language.

There are also plenty of people who could break down the process to death from all perspectives and still be unable to achieve it. So then would they really "know"?



hal0hal0 said:


> Methinks you've been overdosing on Ti from obvious sources .


Nah, it just seemed like an invalidation.



hal0hal0 said:


>


Totally disagree with this, lol, though it may be the case for some.



hal0hal0 said:


>


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## Veggie (May 22, 2011)

hal0hal0 said:


> Is music an epiphany? Even if you don't understand a word of it? It's my thread and I'll cry if I want to...












I think there are many levels of understanding.

I don't get what you mean with the second part, lol.


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## Veggie (May 22, 2011)

hal0hal0 said:


>


And I love this btw


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## hal0hal0 (Sep 1, 2012)

Veggie said:


> You don't need to laugh at me, lol. It's really not that obvious. I was making two separate points too. "Knowing" isn't all about an outside perspective or forming conclusions by compare/contrast. *Knowing comes from complete immersion imo sometimes as well.* Like Peter Pan knowing how to fly but not being able to break it down at first when asked how to do it in a specific language. Didn't mean that he didn't know how to though, or that he couldn't explain to someone in a shared language.
> 
> There are also plenty of people who could break down the process to death from all perspectives and still be unable to achieve it. So then would they really "know"?


Of which I am well aware. I don't know about you, but immersion flows into the need to come up for air. I can't hold my breath indefinitely.



> Totally disagree with this, lol, though it may be the case for some.


_Totally_? 100%? Without exception?

Says the person who is against black-and-white thinking (need I pull up recent posts corroborating this?), who does get tired of mafia, who does, on occasion, take breaks from the forum to, yes, shocker, get food, Pinterest carpet-bomb, etc..

What about... not seeing home in a long time, coming back, and seeing a sight for sore eyes? Never experienced that? Ever ever? Never taken the familiar for granted? Never got homesick? Never realized how much you missed something until it was gone?

I need breaks sometimes, vacations and retreats from the "interface" if you catch my drift. There is an ebb and flow that necessitates taking two steps forward and one step back... that is the point I've been making.



Veggie said:


> I think there are many levels of understanding.
> 
> I don't get what you mean with the second part, lol.


I was making a stupid reference and trying to be cute, failing on both counts, apparently :crying:.


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## Veggie (May 22, 2011)

hal0hal0 said:


> Of which I am well aware. I don't know about you, but immersion flows into the need to come up for air. I can't hold my breath indefinitely.


Well we were talking about fish, many of whom don't need to come up for air, and it was meant more metaphorically anyway.



hal0hal0 said:


> _Totally_? 100%? Without exception?
> 
> Says the person who is against black-and-white thinking (need I pull up recent posts corroborating this?), who does get tired of mafia, who does, on occasion, take breaks from the forum to, yes, shocker, get food, Pinterest carpet-bomb, etc..


Lol, what are you talking about? How is "though it may be the case for some" black and white thinking? It's just a personal opinion about what does and doesn't strike as an epiphany for me and my personal truth. You post quoted me and then posted that and the McLuhan stuff as if to discredit what I was saying, OR, were you acting like, oh, yea, totally - and then posting stuff you thought I was saying or that I'd agree with? If it was the latter I was clarifying that there was a minor lapse in communication or understanding because we weren't totally connecting there with some of what you posted. And how does my staying busy with something or not have anything to do with recognizing beauty? That actually does sort of fit though, because I'm pretty much the opposite of what that quote states. The further removed I am from beauty or my experience of it the LESS likely I am to acknowledge it as such when I see it. 

I won't have anything to measure the feeling against, I'll probably be paranoid and depersonalized and over think or deny it (chemical reactions in the brain, validation, energetic momentum created by trusting the probability of connection on some wavelength or frequency due to consistent data collected - these things are all "love" and "beauty" imo ...which makes everything kind of empty and depressing unless you can go to these places over time which create that cohesion of a sense of a shared reality and encourage spells of forgetting to cognitively remove yourself from the process to a degree so that beauty can organically grow), I rationalize it's relevance away assuming it will probably soon disappear since I find beauty more in that energetic connection with something - and if I haven't been experiencing my own beauty moment to moment more frequently I won't have the proper momentum with which to match it, etc, etc.



hal0hal0 said:


> What about... not seeing home in a long time, coming back, and seeing a sight for sore eyes? Never experienced that? Ever ever? Never taken the familiar for granted? Never got homesick? Never realized how much you missed something until it was gone?


Not really any time recently. I don't get home sick anymore. I don't know what "home" even is. I've felt very alone for a really long time now. Boo hoo. I'll cry too, lol. Yea though, it makes me feel really guilty. And sad. Like I'm a ghost.

I've also gotten compliments that I don't really take a lot for granted. If I don't feel awed, appreciative and inspired I'll often just move on. Maybe that's a 7 thing, I dunno.

I get homesick for places in my mind. The channels where the more absurd resides, lol. That's the only energy that can blast me back to life (beauty) if I've been really removed from it, but the more that's required, the less likely the energy is to last and actually create momentum for anything to take off, substantiate and flesh itself out, so...



hal0hal0 said:


> I was making a stupid reference and trying to be cute, failing on both counts, apparently :crying:.


Lol, yea, but I don't know what you're crying about or why was my point.


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## hal0hal0 (Sep 1, 2012)

Veggie said:


> You post quoted me and then posted that and the McLuhan stuff as if to discredit what I was saying, OR, were you acting like, oh, yea, totally - and then posting stuff you thought I was saying or that I'd agree with?


?

The only one in reference to you was the RD Laing bit from The Politics of Family. And I wasn't trying to discredit anything you said? (Not sure how you are drawing that conclusion, since I don't see the connection; you give me far too much credit if you assumed I was trying to discredit you; I really don't have enough foresight for that). Laing's comment about family is merely an observation I've been thinking about, how the family unit creates a sort of hidden camaraderie that resists outsider intrusion into that inner circle, in some regards, to preserve the integrity and strength of that family unit.

The only reason I post-quoted was because of that inkling connection of "I come from a long line of lunatics" which reminded me of the notion of family.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The McLuhan stuff had like, nothing to do with you, at all. Perhaps I should've separated that by my trademark tilde line to demarcate a separate section. I just always have McLuhan on the mind, so I sprinkled them in there for me to chew on. Not everything I post revolves around you; I'll try to be more clear about that in the future.



> And how does my staying busy with something or not have anything to do with recognizing beauty? That actually does sort of fit though, because I'm pretty much the opposite of what that quote states. The further removed I am from beauty or my experience of it the LESS likely I am to acknowledge it as such when I see it.


That wasn't my point. As I said (and maybe didn't make clear enough, in which case I apologize), I agree that immersion is necessary, I never said it wasn't. But I grow numb to it after a while, hence, the desire, for me at least, to gain distance from it. When I draw, for instance, I often do not "see" the drawing until I've put it away on the shelf for a long time because I get too close to it; I only see the flaws and ugliness the more time I spend with it. For me, familiarity often times (but not always) builds contempt, or at least dissatisfaction and numbing.



> Lol, what are you talking about? How is "though it may be the case for some" black and white thinking? It's just a personal opinion about what does and doesn't strike as an epiphany for me and my personal truth. If it was the latter I was clarifying that there was a minor lapse in communication or understanding because we weren't totally connecting there with some of what you posted.


I was joshing you? Maybe I need to use more emoticons because my kinda sorta tongue-in-cheek isn't working. I'm being entirely too nitpicky, but it made me laugh seeing you go "I totally disagree with that." You've rarely struck me as a "totally" person that will outright reject anything without considering things from a different angle. Just thought it was amusing *shrug*.



> Lol, yea, but I don't know what you're crying about or why was my point.


Um... wasn't meant to be taken literally? I'm fond of non sequitur.

You seem rather argumentative today, btw (or I am projecting). Kudos to the chef... it's a fiesty dish, and quite delectable.


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## Veggie (May 22, 2011)

hal0hal0 said:


> ?
> 
> The only one in reference to you was the RD Laing bit from The Politics of Family. And I wasn't trying to discredit anything you said? (Not sure how you are drawing that conclusion, since I don't see the connection; you give me far too much credit if you assumed I was trying to discredit you; I really don't have enough foresight for that). Laing's comment about family is* merely an observation I've been thinking about, how the family unit creates a sort of hidden camaraderie that resists outsider intrusion into that inner circle, in some regards, to preserve the integrity and strength of that family unit.*
> 
> The only reason I post-quoted was because of that inkling connection of "I come from a long line of lunatics" which reminded me of the notion of family.


Yea, I thought he was saying the opposite of there being a sort of hidden camaraderie. 

_"The most common situation I encounter in families is when what I think is going on bears almost no resemblance to what anyone in the family experiences or thinks is happening, whether or not this coincides with common sense. Maybe no one knows what is happening. However, one thing is often clear to an outsider: there is concerted family resistance to discovering what is going on, and there are complicated stratagems to keep everyone in the dark, and in the dark they are in the dark.
We would know more of what is going on if we were not forbidden to do so, and forbidden to realize that we are forbidden to do so.
Between truth and lie are images and ideas we imagine and think are real, that paralyse our imagination and our thinking in our effort to conserve them."---RD Laing, The Politics of Family​_
Sounds like he's saying that there's an imagined camaraderie, or a deluded notion of camaraderie, or a willfully ignorant sense of camaraderie that it isn't objectively truthful. That everyone else can see what's going on but the family. Since I agree with what you said that I bolded, my knee jerk reaction was "fuck off RD Laing, who are you and what the fuck do you know?" 

It was like exactly what I posted that against, lol.

I'd just watched Interstellar and there was something comforting about how the family believed in each other's lunacy when no one else did. That they were able to communicate to each other across space-time because of inside information that could act as proof that there was probability that the patterns that they were recognizing were actually there, relevant and meaningful.





















hal0hal0 said:


> The McLuhan stuff had like, nothing to do with you, at all. Perhaps I should've separated that by my trademark tilde line to demarcate a separate section. I just always have McLuhan on the mind, so I sprinkled them in there for me to chew on. *Not everything I post revolves around you; I'll try to be more clear about that in the future.*


I don't think that, lol. You've complained that I don't read what you post enough if it's not in response to something I've said. It was just confusing that you post quoted me with it.



hal0hal0 said:


> That wasn't my point. As I said (and maybe didn't make clear enough, in which case I apologize), I agree that immersion is necessary, I never said it wasn't. But I grow numb to it after a while, hence, the desire, for me at least, to gain distance from it. When I draw, for instance, I often do not "see" the drawing until I've put it away on the shelf for a long time because I get too close to it; I only see the flaws and ugliness the more time I spend with it. For me, familiarity often times (but not always) builds contempt, or at least dissatisfaction and numbing.


Yea, you've said this before. I can understand the perspective. For me familiarity builds trust. I need my constants among variables.



hal0hal0 said:


> I was joshing you? Maybe I need to use more emoticons because my kinda sorta tongue-in-cheek isn't working. I'm being entirely too nitpicky, but it made me laugh seeing you go "I totally disagree with that." You've rarely struck me as a "totally" person that will outright reject anything without considering things from a different angle. Just thought it was amusing *shrug*.


That's true. I usually avoid words like "totally" lol.



hal0hal0 said:


> Um... wasn't meant to be taken literally? I'm fond of non sequitur.
> 
> You seem rather argumentative today, btw (or I am projecting). Kudos to the chef... it's a fiesty dish, and quite delectable.


I'm actually not feeling argumentative at all, lol. I can't even muster up the energy to finish a debate elsewhere on the forum, which is like, a first. I have links and articles on que, ready to go and everything, but I think there's probably a 1% chance of anyone even reading them so. Meh. I'm also becoming increasingly convinced that there is literally no such thing as reality - only power struggles, ego stroking and popularity contests.

And I wasn't meaning literally with your song reference. I just didn't even get the joke, lol.


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## Veggie (May 22, 2011)

@hal0hal0 - Oh, and the latest Goddess Girls book I've been reading is about Medusa, Dionysus and King Midas, so I feel like I'll probably definitely have alchemy thoughts afterwards, lolz.


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## hal0hal0 (Sep 1, 2012)

Veggie said:


> Yea, I thought he was saying the opposite of there being a sort of hidden camaraderie.
> 
> _"The most common situation I encounter in families is when what I think is going on bears almost no resemblance to what anyone in the family experiences or thinks is happening, whether or not this coincides with common sense. Maybe no one knows what is happening. However, one thing is often clear *to an outsider:* there is concerted family resistance to discovering what is going on, and there are complicated stratagems to keep everyone in the dark, and in the dark they are in the dark.
> We would know more of what is going on if we were not forbidden to do so, and forbidden to realize that we are forbidden to do so.
> ...


Then you're taking Laing _*way *_out of context, since most of his work is in direct opposition to the notion of Freudian objectivity. If anything, Laing's influences were more in line with Jung's, however, not so much rooted in mysticism and archetypes as much as saying, hey, normal is an illusion, which we often lose sight of in psychiatry and in attempts to define madness, we create a new brand of madness... the madness of normalcy.

He's not talking about the observee in that excerpt, but the observ_*er*_. As in, the observer's failing to penetrate that filial sphere. Laing often "set up scenarios" in his writing, in attempts to point out their absurdity and his own limitations of observation. As a psychiatrist, his starting point is often the observer, but it's merely to set the stage.

Here he is pointing out the absurdity of DSM-III as too quick to turn every "abnormal" behavior into illness and diagnosis:










Ofc, Laing was not "anti-psychiatry" simply that the boundaries were too rigid and that he, as a psychiatrist, had limitations to his own knowledge and own ability to see into his patients' perspectives.

I see this so often, that people take a single observation out of context and have a kneejerk reaction and assume things about their entire body of work based on limited data. Which is why I tend to dislike first impressions. Or assume that a single line can accurately sum up a lifetime of work. It provides a snapshot, accurate or not, but it is not the whole picture.



> I see you, and you see me. I experience you, and you experience me. I see your behaviour. You see my behaviour. But I do not and never have and never will see your _experience_ of me. Just as you cannot "see" my experience of you. My experience of you is not "inside" me. It is simply you, as I experience you. And I do not experience you as inside me. Similarly, I take it that you do not experience me as inside you.
> 
> "My experience of you" is just another form of words for "you-as-l-experience-you", and "your experience of me" equals "me-as-you-experience-me". Your experience of me is not inside you and my experience of you is not inside me, but _your experience of me is invisible to me and my experience of you is invisible to you_.
> I cannot experience your experience. You cannot experience my experience. We are both invisible men. All men are invisible to one another. Experience used to be called The Soul. Experience as invisibility of man to man is at the same time more evident than anything. _Only_ experience is evident. Experience is the _only_ evidence. Psychology is the logos of experience. Psychology is the structure of the _evidence_, and hence psychology is the science of sciences.




















Moreover, how many psychiatrists do you know that actively delved into poetry:



> *To Know...
> or Not to Know?*
> 
> 
> ...


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## ScientiaOmnisEst (Oct 2, 2013)

> *To Know...*
> *or Not to Know?*
> 
> 
> ...



This speaks to me.

@hal0hal0


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## Golden Rose (Jun 5, 2014)




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## hal0hal0 (Sep 1, 2012)

Hotaru said:


>


Yeah, them throns sting...


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## Golden Rose (Jun 5, 2014)

hal0hal0 said:


> Yeah, them throns sting...


Life is a Game of Throns.


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## DomNapoleon (Jan 21, 2012)

Hotaru said:


> Life is a Game of Throns.


Only someone too cu-cu would say that :laughing::laughing:


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## hal0hal0 (Sep 1, 2012)

Life is a waiting room where you can't even guarantee that your name will be called. Hope you brought plenty of magazines.


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## cinnabun (Apr 11, 2011)

Girls are biiiiiiiiitchy.

And, my eyes are bigger than my belly @[email protected]


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## Vermillion (Jan 22, 2012)

When friends used to offer me help with things, I'd take it as an insult because I'd think I'm stupid enough to need help from people, and think it's a sign that I possess no significant value or use of my own. Now I realize that friends offering me help means they _value_ me enough to help me... it's not an implicit insult or an indication of my lack of value; it's the complete opposite. 

Finally I can accept help without going all red in the face about it :')


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## Recede (Nov 23, 2011)

There is order and truth in the universe. There really are answers and it's possible to comprehend reality with full clarity. 

Reality may at times seem like a hopelessly tangled knot with no way to completely untangle it, or like a puzzle which can never be completed using all the pieces. 

But of course it can't be completed with all the pieces, as if every angle, every aspect of reality, were a piece belonging to the right puzzle. You can't complete a jigsaw puzzle with a few pieces from this puzzle, a few from that, and a few from that other puzzle over there. 

What seems right or not right is relative to how we're constructing reality at the time. By letting go of our current constructs, it's possible to continually transcend our own understanding, to solve problems that were unsolvable within previous constructs, to find answers that did not exist to us before.


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## WeirdRaptor28 (Aug 25, 2014)

We were meant to be imperfect.


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## WeirdRaptor28 (Aug 25, 2014)

If you think about it, the "forever isn't real" bullshit of broken-hearted people isn't really true. Change is permanent. Change is fucking forever. There's your forever. Maybe not your fairy tale ending, but it's something that opens up more and more possibilities, because who knows what kind of change will occur next? This is what makes life worth living: Witnessing the bittersweet spectacle that is change.

Now, let's sing that Captain, We're Sinking line:

"Things just have to change. My brother, are you okay?"


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## WeirdRaptor28 (Aug 25, 2014)

If everybody's making fun of you, you're headed in the right direction.


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