# Is anyone’s love life a mess and now they’re unable to love anyone lol?



## lat288 (Sep 21, 2021)

How to open your heart again? basically.

I’m a completely happy person. I have many happy things going on for me rn.

Except my love life. Let’s just say it was chaotic, a mess, until I just stopped.

“I’m not gonna deal with this shit” I have been single for a year. Exes wanting to come back, guys here and there trying to flirt with me, I even had some feelings for some of them, but I just refrain myself from going any further, from actually being in a relationship again.

It hurted. And I want no part of it now. It’s like if I just completely push it aside and focus on other things, I can keep being a happy person. Anyone feel the same?


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

lat288 said:


> How to open your heart again? basically.
> 
> I’m a completely happy person. I have many happy things going on for me rn.
> 
> ...


I've pretty much been single for 6 years since my marriage of 15 years fell apart, so I feel your pain. I have tried to date again, but every woman I dated didn't pan out. I am afraid to trust again. I've done pretty well for myself, but I miss that intimacy I had. I miss having someone to fall asleep and wake up next to. I miss all the trips, date nights, and anniversaries we celebrated. I miss all the inside jokes and just time spent in the car going places together. She was my best friend and somehow, we drifted apart. I have had a hole in my heart ever since. I don't say all this to have anyone feel sorry for me, I just realize that 6 years may have softened the pain, but not the longing for what I once had. I'm getting old. I'm not in shape. It's going to be hard for me to find someone at this point in my life. I don't know if I have anything left to offer a woman. The last 18 months I've pretty much been all alone in my apartment working from home. The only interactions I get are few and far between. It's not ideal for someone like me to be so isolated.

I read something today about being so tired of being stuck in "survival mode" that I just don't have the energy to do much besides work, eat, sit on the couch, and sleep. That resonated with me.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

edit: now I edited out too much and it doesn't make sense. lol

Weirdly...I bought a journal recently (it has stones on the front--it's the fanciest journal I've ever had) and I told myself that it was for "figuring out my romantic side" or something? So I am not sure where to start with that--maybe reading some love poems, writing them down and reflecting on them? I don't even know what one does to work on their romantic side alone.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

WickerDeer said:


> I feel similarly but I don't have all my shit together, unlike you.
> 
> I'm in a (hopefully positive) transition phase in life right now, where I'm trying to get into a better groove.
> 
> ...


I've been filling up journals for years. It really does help me understand my thoughts/feelings. I don't do it every day. I do it when I feel like it.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

tanstaafl28 said:


> I've been filling up journals for years. It really does help me understand my thoughts/feelings. I don't do it every day. I do it when I feel like it.


Me too--I journaled a lot as a child and I think it has probably helped me more times than I knew. 

I've just been getting more interested in more structured journal prompts--I've always just used it to write whatever I felt like (and I often do think about self improvement too--so I naturally go back to that), but I realized I could also probably benefit from prompts designed to shift focus. 

This new journal though, is so fancy looking (it's got stones in the front, and mandalas embossed on the cover--like it is hand made) that I think I am going to try to be more formal with it, rather than my typical write-whatever-I-think. Or like the Kama Sutra or something...I feel like it should be more of a book (like a personal book) journal than my typical spew.

I sort of want to use it for meditation--perhaps I can choose a love poem every day as a prompt or meditate on something for inspiration.


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## Celtsincloset (Feb 17, 2014)

lat288 said:


> How to open your heart again? basically.
> 
> I’m a completely happy person. I have many happy things going on for me rn.
> 
> ...


When do you get hurt in a relationship? What trajectory do they follow, and there’s a part of it that you want no more of?…


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## lat288 (Sep 21, 2021)

Celtsincloset said:


> When do you get hurt in a relationship? What trajectory do they follow, and there’s a part of it that you want no more of?…


2020 was chaotic for my love life, I got into 3 different situations with 3 different guys (because I was young and dumb), I’ll sum it up as much as I can:

1. Breakup with my boyfriend of 3 years. I even lived with the dude. Got kicked out the house and had to move in a new apartment and started a new life.

2. Got into a relationship with a guy who just didnt love me, but because I was so in love with him, I was blind to the signs. 
He gave me a half-ass 6 month relationship and I accepted it. He showed his true self when he decided to break up with me, saying all the hurtful words and doing all the disrespectful things, and I accepted it. Thats what happened when you dont have self-love and self-respect.

3. Got into a short talking stage with this guy. Found out he’s an obsessive psycho: controlling, overly jealous. So I called it quit. The dude kept stalking me for half a year and only stopped when I finally had it and told him I would tell the police. I would get random calls at night from random numbers and when I picked up there were just silence on the other side until he hung up. Everyone was shocked when I told them this how many numbers I had to block.


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## ENTJudgement (Oct 6, 2013)

lat288 said:


> How to open your heart again? basically.
> 
> I’m a completely happy person. I have many happy things going on for me rn.
> 
> ...


Just follow these 2 golden rules;

1. Never invest more than you're willing to lose, applies to love too
2. Never assume the next person is going to be the same as the previous, by taking your negative experiences from relationship to relationship and not giving your new partner a fair chance is the same as u sabotaging your potential relationship. You need to take note of red flags etc but never accuse anyone or anything without evidence


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## lat288 (Sep 21, 2021)

ENTJudgement said:


> Just follow these 2 golden rules;
> 
> 1. Never invest more than you're willing to lose, applies to love too
> 2. Never assume the next person is going to be the same as the previous, by taking your negative experiences from relationship to relationship and not giving your new partner a fair chance is the same as u sabotaging your potential relationship. You need to take note of red flags etc but never accuse anyone or anything without evidence


Yes. Thank you.
After my last breakup I was just all up in those relationship advice videos on youtube lol, and they were saying those things too.
Its quarantine rn and I dont really feel the need for a boyfriend, just wanna be at home doing my own things.
I think if I were to date again, I would take it slow, really getting to know the guy.
I desperately want a mature and healthy relationship lol, got real tired of all those toxic ones I was getting myself into.
I guess they are just learning experiences, to prepare me for a real relationship that I actually deserve.


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## ENTJudgement (Oct 6, 2013)

lat288 said:


> 2020 was chaotic for my love life, I got into 3 different situations with 3 different guys (because I was young and dumb), I’ll sum it up as much as I can:
> 
> 1. Breakup with my boyfriend of 3 years. I even lived with the dude. Got kicked out the house and had to move in a new apartment and started a new life.
> 
> ...


1. No idea what happened there since all u mentioned was u 2 broke up, hes obviously gonna kick u out if he was paying for the house.
2. Thats what happens when you play the reacher, I rarely ever reach and mainly settle for that reason. Downside is u aren't likely going to punch above your weight if you play the settler but theres a much lower chance that hes less interested in u than u in him.
3. Controlling types are easy to spot, especially if hes jealous, just do something on the first date that is seen as normal to society but crossing the line to controlling people like engaging in small talk with a male waiter etc...


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

WickerDeer said:


> Me too--I journaled a lot as a child and I think it has probably helped me more times than I knew.
> 
> I've just been getting more interested in more structured journal prompts--I've always just used it to write whatever I felt like (and I often do think about self improvement too--so I naturally go back to that), but I realized I could also probably benefit from prompts designed to shift focus.
> 
> ...


I just bought myself a new 10 pack. $45.95 comes out to about $4.50 a pop (plus shipping). 










I use these pencils exclusively (they remind me of my childhood and have a special family meaning). 










There's something ritualistic to this writing process. It fits my way of thinking.


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## Ewok City (Sep 21, 2020)

The dating scene is such a mess nowadays. My previous relationships and interactions with some females has left a deep "impression" in me, and I genuinely feel sick and tired just from the thought of getting back into the dating scene. 

I think I'm fine with arranged marriage now. Or any type of relationship without feelings involved, just two commited person who wants to build a stable family together.


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## lat288 (Sep 21, 2021)

ENTJudgement said:


> 1. No idea what happened there since all u mentioned was u 2 broke up, hes obviously gonna kick u out if he was paying for the house.
> 2. Thats what happens when you play the reacher, I rarely ever reach and mainly settle for that reason. Downside is u aren't likely going to punch above your weight if you play the settler but theres a much lower chance that hes less interested in u than u in him.
> 3. Controlling types are easy to spot, especially if hes jealous, just do something on the first date that is seen as normal to society but crossing the line to controlling people like engaging in small talk with a male waiter etc...


1. The rent was split equally actually. I’m now happy that I broke up with that dude so I dont really care about what happened anymore. Everything is good.

2. Yup, thats what happened. I invested in the relationship so much more than him. That is also the reason why it was so hard for me to get over him. I dont plan to repeat this type of dynamic ever again.

3. Thank you for the suggestion. I’ll make sure to try it in the future.


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## lat288 (Sep 21, 2021)

Ewok City said:


> The dating scene is such a mess nowadays. My previous relationships and interactions with some females has left a deep "impression" in me, and I genuinely feel sick and tired just from the thought of getting back into the dating scene.
> 
> I think I'm fine with arranged marriage now. Or any type of relationship without feelings involved, just two commited person who wants to build a stable family together.


Thats what I felt too, except I wouldnt call it a “relationship” if there was no feelings involved.

I used to “date” guys I didnt have any feelings towards, and it just felt lacking. In my mind they were just close friends to me.

But seeking emotional fulfillment from a romantic relationship is just so risky, so instead I seek it from pets, hobbies, family,… a dog never hurts you lol


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

ENTJudgement said:


> Just follow these 2 golden rules;
> 
> 1. Never invest more than you're willing to lose, applies to love too
> 2. Never assume the next person is going to be the same as the previous, by taking your negative experiences from relationship to relationship and not giving your new partner a fair chance is the same as u sabotaging your potential relationship. You need to take note of red flags etc but never accuse anyone or anything without evidence


Commentary on your 2 rules (and a 3rd of my own)

1. As far as I am concerned, if you can't go all in, you should not go in at all. At some point you both have to be willing to risk everything or it will fail. 
2. Absolutely true. Take your time, get to know her, don't commit too soon. Understand them to the best of your ability. 
3. Tend the garden. If you do not continuously cultivate it _together_, it will wither and die.


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## ENTJudgement (Oct 6, 2013)

tanstaafl28 said:


> Commentary on your 2 rules (and a 3rd of my own)
> 1. As far as I am concerned, if you can't go all in, you should not go in at all. At some point you both have to be willing to risk everything or it will fail.


Although I understand what you're saying, I disagree coz;

For me, I get a lot more interest from overseas women than in my own country since my country has a very small population and lets just say Asian men are not culturally considered the most desirable in this country.

Usually after the whole online phase, flying over, meeting her, her flying over and visiting me, so on so forth, eventually 1 of us has to uproot our lives to go live with the other. This is a tremendous investment coz I've got a lot here career and assets wise and I cannot easily just uproot and move to another country. 

Generally I'd much rather her move over here and I cover all her expenses than me going over and potentially become some unemployed bum or starting at some much shittier position/job if I can't find a similar position job with similar salary.

So I simply ask myself, am I going to be OK with the worst case scenario whereby I move over there, couldn't find a decent job, can't pull my weight, she ditches me eventually and I'm now stuck in some new place I don't even like, ruined my career and have to start over again? The answer is probably no coz I know I'm going to regret it, I don't do all in bets unless the outcome is within my control but unfortunately in relationships, the outcome is in your partner's control.


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## FreeKekistan (Mar 4, 2015)

Nope. Never journaled in my life. I found it boring.

I dated all sorts of girls: the slutty easy girl, the eternally naive only child living with her parents girl, the hypersexualized daddy issues girl, the crazy "fuck you, it's your fault but wanna get back together" stalking girl, the "legends say my heart is absolute 0 in kelvin" girl, the "I wish my parents would die so that I get their house psycho", the "I wanna just wanna teach my cheating boyfriend a lesson" girl, the "oh, I wanna be in a relationship but I don't wanna see you regularly" girl, the "I will not have sex until marriage" girl, and many many more. And I mean dated. Not chatted on the internet. Dated. Kissed. Had sex with. Some of these relationships lasted months, years. The only one I dated for half a day was the one trying to get revenge on her boyfriend. Even I wasn't that stupid or horny to put my dick inside that.

I wasn't great dating material at the beginning either, but damn, some of these chicks were damaged as fuck. Taught me some lessons on looking at people that are normal. When you meet someone normal and boring, you hold on to them because you can get a lot of damaged goods. Normal is good.

I never stopped dating just because I got hurt here and there tho. You gotta shift through a lot of dirt before you find a diamond. Anyways, married now, not into dating, of course, but if I had to date, I wouldn't shy away from it. I'd probably go for someone older tho. Not sure the younger ones can be good dating material. I mean, sure, there could be some zoomer chick whose brain has not been completely melted by tiktok, but I won't put all the eggs in that basket.

But living alone for years? Nope. Have not been single for more than a few months since I was 18. That was almost 20 years ago. I couldn't do the "I'm better on my own" lies. I mean, maybe for some it is something they believe in and they're happy. That just ain't me. Something would be missing if I would just be alone going through life coming home to an empty house. That's for some other people. I'd take my chances with the crazies before I give up and decide to stay single out of fear of having a bad relationship. You dust yourself off and continue. That's what you do.

Best advice to save you most of the trouble. Never put dick in crazy. Or never let the crazy dick inside depending on the case.


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## lat288 (Sep 21, 2021)

FreeKekistan said:


> Nope. Never journaled in my life. I found it boring.
> 
> I dated all sorts of girls: the slutty easy girl, the eternally naive only child living with her parents girl, the hypersexualized daddy issues girl, the crazy "fuck you, it's your fault but wanna get back together" stalking girl, the "legends say my heart is absolute 0 in kelvin" girl, the "I wish my parents would die so that I get their house psycho", the "I wanna just wanna teach my cheating boyfriend a lesson" girl, the "oh, I wanna be in a relationship but I don't wanna see you regularly" girl, the "I will not have sex until marriage" girl, and many many more. And I mean dated. Not chatted on the internet. Dated. Kissed. Had sex with. Some of these relationships lasted months, years.
> 
> ...


Haha dude, why do I feel you through your words? Youre a lot like me relationship-wise.

I was rarely single too. So now I looked back and realize that I havent dated anyone (or rather, refused to date) for a whole year, I was so surprised.

But I dont want to jump into some situationship just because I’m lonely or whatever pathetic reason.
“I’m perfectly happy on my own, I dont need you but I want you in my life” mentality is what I’m living on. Maybe it’s different between men and women. Men have sexual needs, women we can just not have sex for all our life and be perfectly happy. So being single is not as much of a big deal for a woman.

Even if I was not scared of getting hurt, it would not be easy for me to catch feelings either. I dated fuckboys before and knew all their tactics now. And I mean ALL. An ex fuckboi even tried to get me back using all these good old tricks he has done before, like “dude, I know exactly what you tryna do, its embarrassing” lol


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## FreeKekistan (Mar 4, 2015)

lat288 said:


> Maybe it’s different between men and women. Men have sexual needs, women we can just not have sex for all our life and be perfectly happy. So being single is not as much of a big deal for a woman.


In my experience I found women had about the same sexual needs as men. Mostly a daily deal. I couldn't tell you what personalities they had, wasn't into that back then to ask them or to study them and most of my memories are blurred anyways to the point where I would not have enough stuff to profile them. But I didn't really date the "frigid" girl because there's something off putting about someone that is like that. I can't point out what it is, but I know for sure they're very... stiff as people. I did encounter a few. Never pursued anything beyond an initial date. And it wasn't like sex on the first date, not my thing. Frigid people put out a specific vibe. You know it when you see it.

Most of the chicks I dated were mid to high on the sexuality scale. With a few exceptions being outright on the nympho scale.

Sidenote, I can say that a nympho is a teenager's dream, but in reality it isn't fun. I'm going to call it a disease or something being dysfunctional. You can't sit in bed all day. It wears off quick.

Sidenote reloaded: squirters are overly fetishized in porn, but changing the sheets every fucking time gets tiring real fucking quick. Another teenager's dream. Annoying and impractical in real life. Bothered me to the point where I wasn't even looking forward to sex anymore. And I wasn't gonna put plastic sheets like a weirdo on the bed either. That's for grannies to cover their sofas in plastic.


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## lat288 (Sep 21, 2021)

FreeKekistan said:


> In my experience I found women had about the same sexual needs as men. Mostly a daily deal. I couldn't tell you what personalities they had, wasn't into that back then to ask them or to study them and most of my memories are blurred anyways to the point where I would not have enough stuff to profile them. But I didn't really date the "frigid" girl because there's something off putting about someone that is like that. I can't point out what it is, but I know for sure they're very... stiff as people. I did encounter a few. Never pursued anything beyond an initial date. And it wasn't like sex on the first date, not my thing. Frigid people put out a specific vibe. You know it when you see it.
> 
> Most of the chicks I dated were mid to high on the sexuality scale. With a few exceptions being outright on the nympho scale.
> 
> ...


I think women are more sexually satisfied with sex toys than with men. Men a lot of times will do things in bed that they thought turn us on (cuz they see it in porn or whatever) but in reality just hurt us. You always have to tell them how to do it right and the sex becomes less fun and more robotic, like a teaching class. 

The men that actually know from a to z, are complete fuckboys, and you can only be friends with benefits with them, and I’m not about that life.

And women wont just date someone just to be able to have sex with that person, unlike men. Men can stick around for months pretending to love you just to get to your cat lol.

So I would say a woman with high sex drive just be sleeping around, not necessarily dating anyone. Its not hard at all for women to find men who want to sleep with them, unlike the other way around.


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## Wax Diamond (Apr 9, 2020)

A real mess, speaking of society in general, dating has become one for several reasons :
_ women becoming always more and more independant (and I am one of them) 
_ feminism (and it is still useful) 
_ technologies 
_ age difference being considered as fashionable, if not fascinating.... 
_pornography influencing boys very early 
_divorced couples educating their children sometimes in conflictual /manipulative atmospheres, lack of balance & limits. 
_People hiding on meeting apps, cancelling tracks, sparkles of sincerity for most of them. 
_Coronacircus arriving in march 2020 reinforcing all the problems above 
We could go on and on as all those patterns are linked all together, one reinforcing the other,creating a vicious circle. 

I only attract very young guys, or some old men, and I find very few interest in small talk conversations, I do not go out at night or in clubs. Some men try to seduce me but they are generally not the smartest or the most sensitive... 
And finally, cherry on the cake I am pansexual, so I am very open minded but people often interpret my behaviour towards them as à sex opener, which is rather, in my own state of soul, the contrary. 
Funny how people are weakly governed by hormons and norms. I am too in a way, but discretely and only by my pheromons 😏


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## FreeKekistan (Mar 4, 2015)

lat288 said:


> Men a lot of times will do things in bed that they thought turn us on (cuz they see it in porn or whatever) but in reality just hurt us. You always have to tell them how to do it right and the sex becomes less fun and more robotic, like a teaching class.


Slightly disagree here. This has more to do with the sexuality of the woman than "teaching the man".

Men are simple sexual creatures. You're not gonna hear many complaints from us either. Sex is like pizza, even when it's bad, it's good.

But in my experience, women are all sexually different. Don't touch me like that, touch me like this, don't squeeze my boobs, bite my nipples, go fast, go slow and all that, which is just sexual preference. And it varies from woman to woman. It's not really honest what you just said that you have to teach the man and that it is boring.

One way to convince yourself that it isn't men's fault is to try to have sex with a girl the way YOU like to be had sex with. Then you'll see exactly what I mean. It ain't the man. It's women's preferences and array of different stimulation. Don't be dissing on my folk for nothing. And a man willing to start from scratch with another woman and learning her things isn't boring or less fun. That's commitment. Otherwise, to men your orgasm isn't important, unless we value you somehow. Discounting those that brag on women's orgasms. But that's another level of deranged.

Thoughts?


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## lat288 (Sep 21, 2021)

Wax Diamond said:


> A real mess, speaking of society in general, dating has become one for several reasons :
> _ women becoming always more and more independant (and I am one of them)
> _ feminism (and it is still useful)
> _ technologies
> ...



Yup. Especially technology, really mess with people’s loyalty and create a lot of anxiety within a relationship.
I didnt have no ideology going into the dating world. I was just acting according to how I felt. “If that guy’s cute and I have feelings, I will date him” that was how I went about it. Which is why I got myself into a lot of weird situations you can imagine in a romantic relationship. 
I’m done with that experiencing phase now. 
If you cant give me a real, mature, healthy relationship, I’ll just dip.
If we’re not compatible, I will recognize it early on and refrain myself from having feelings.
I date to marry, dont want to f*ck around anymore.


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## FreeKekistan (Mar 4, 2015)

lat288 said:


> I date to marry, dont want to f*ck around anymore.


The patriarchy has sent me as its ambassador to say that we approve of this line of thought. You have been granted the title of BASED. I'ma beam back to the mother... FATHERSHIP.


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## lat288 (Sep 21, 2021)

FreeKekistan said:


> Slightly disagree here. This has more to do with the sexuality of the woman than "teaching the man".
> 
> Men are simple sexual creatures. You're not gonna hear many complaints from us either. Sex is like pizza, even when it's bad, it's good.
> 
> ...


yes, different women have different preferences, but there are those preferences that a lot of women have in common. 
For example, playing with our cat aggressively or in a fast “up and down” motion is never fun, it hurts and I’m sure a lot of girls will agree with me. You supposed to do it in circles and slow, or in the “left and right” motion, instead of up and down. Golden tips right here.
I think pornography really mess with boys’ concept of what turn women on. They kinda forget that the girls in porn are actors and if their directors tell them to act turned on they will have to, even if they werent feeling it.


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## FreeKekistan (Mar 4, 2015)

lat288 said:


> yes, different women have different preferences, but there are those preferences that a lot of women have in common.
> For example, playing with our cat aggressively or in a fast “up and down” motion is never fun, it hurts and I’m sure a lot of girls will agree with me. You supposed to do it in circles and slow, or in the “left and right” motion, instead of up and down. Golden tips right here.
> I think pornography really mess with boys’ concept of what turn women on. They kinda forget that the girls in porn are actors and if their directors tell them to act turned on they will have to, even if they werent feeling it.


Look, I pet all cats gently, regardless, I don't wanna get scratched. Wait, scratch that, that's not why.
I don't like it when you pet a cat too rough and you hear hissing noises and growls.

But petting the cat is only a tiny fraction of how to entertain your "feline hobbies". I guess that's what is in common for most women.

But don't think this is just a man thing doing this stuff horribly wrong. I mean, I've learned my lesson early on about the gentle petting, but do you think there aren't women that threat your stick like it's a race track on sundays and they aggressively shift gears to the point where the gearbox makes all the uncomfortable noises that makes you worry you might need to see a mechanic after the race?

That's why I say, you need to teach each other on some preferences. Yes, men can be rough on petting, but some women can't drive stick at all. They think that the faster they shift, the faster they reach top speed, but that only ends up stalling the engine.


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## Hexigoon (Mar 12, 2018)

lat288 said:


> How to open your heart again? basically.
> 
> I’m a completely happy person. I have many happy things going on for me rn.
> 
> ...


I feel like that kinda, I've been single since 2017. Before that I was often in relationships but I got emotionally worn out behind them ending so I lost interest. I'm pretty skeptical of people who seem to be flirtatious with me now.
I don't know how to fix it though. Part of me feels like I could only feel comfortable about getting into a relationship again if I feel independent, successful and can show myself to be capable of living without anyone paradoxically.
Well in any case, it takes time to heal yourself when you're like that. It's not a bad thing to take breaks, even long ones.


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## Sister Hipster (Aug 5, 2021)

I have gatcha games and cute anime guys. I'm good since all the guys are boring and country bumpkins and don't take care of themselves.


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## Wax Diamond (Apr 9, 2020)

lat288 said:


> Yup. Especially technology, really mess with people’s loyalty and create a lot of anxiety within a relationship.
> I didnt have no ideology going into the dating world. I was just acting according to how I felt. “If that guy’s cute and I have feelings, I will date him” that was how I went about it. Which is why I got myself into a lot of weird situations you can imagine in a romantic relationship.
> I’m done with that experiencing phase now.
> If you cant give me a real, mature, healthy relationship, I’ll just dip.
> ...


Me too I am done with experimentations, your mind and body require different energies and attentions once you listen to your true needs. 
One must also respect his/her own life to prefer some healthy solitude to some bad company.


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## Mark R (Dec 23, 2015)

I think I have some difficulty with commitment now because I've been burned in past relationships.


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## Stella_4E (Sep 29, 2021)

Well... My last ex, the guy who i decided to settle down for for the first time, who i told my first I love you Cheated on me. Giving me big trust issue. 
Am with an Enfj(me Infp) we are supposed to be golden pair. Things are really great between us BUT the anxiety, the doubt, the insecurity kicks in as soon as we don't talk. Especially since we are at long distance at the moment. I know it's not fair for him but everytime he tell me about his past (he used to be a f boy in in school days) because he wants me to trust him, makes me more cautious and overthink like what if I end up like one of those girls one day. 
Especially since I won't go all the way till we get married (yes am old fashioned) He said he is okay with the wait if im ok with other stuffs but what if that ain't enough. 
I appreciate him so much. I am happy i met him but somedays i think my life might be easier, less overthinking if i hadn't met him. 
Me being emotional mess bout to ruin my relationship


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

Wax Diamond said:


> A real mess, speaking of society in general, dating has become one for several reasons :
> _ women becoming always more and more independant (and I am one of them)
> _ feminism (and it is still useful)
> _ technologies
> ...


Where were you when I was younger?


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## lat288 (Sep 21, 2021)

Stella_4E said:


> Well... My last ex, the guy who i decided to settle down for for the first time, who i told my first I love you Cheated on me. Giving me big trust issue.
> Am with an Enfj(me Infp) we are supposed to be golden pair. Things are really great between us BUT the anxiety, the doubt, the insecurity kicks in as soon as we don't talk. Especially since we are at long distance at the moment. I know it's not fair for him but everytime he tell me about his past (he used to be a f boy in in school days) because he wants me to trust him, makes me more cautious and overthink like what if I end up like one of those girls one day.
> Especially since I won't go all the way till we get married (yes am old fashioned) He said he is okay with the wait if im ok with other stuffs but what if that ain't enough.
> I appreciate him so much. I am happy i met him but somedays i think my life might be easier, less overthinking if i hadn't met him.
> Me being emotional mess bout to ruin my relationship


Long distance is so risky though, especially when males are such physical creatures they actually lose feelings if you guys dont meet face to face or touch in real life. It’s even backed up by science cuz their hormones run differently than us. We females can love long distance just fine.


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## mia-me (Feb 5, 2021)

If all your exs were problematic, the only commonality is you. We allow people close to us so then, perhaps ask yourself why you allowed these problematic people close to you. Or is it that they weren't so bad and that it was simply a matter of incompatibility? Don't forget that when people break up, they forget the good parts of their exs.


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## lat288 (Sep 21, 2021)

mia-me said:


> If all your exs were problematic, the only commonality is you. We allow people close to us so then, perhaps ask yourself why you allowed these problematic people close to you. Or is it that they weren't so bad and that it was simply a matter of incompatibility? Don't forget that when people break up, they forget the good parts of their exs.


Yup, in the past I was this insecure person who didnt love myself, and who dated guys to not be alone.
I’m not that person now, but I still can’t get back to the dating scene cuz I have huge trust issues now lol.


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## mia-me (Feb 5, 2021)

lat288 said:


> Yup, in the past I was this insecure person who didnt love myself, and who dated guys to not be alone.
> I’m not that person now, but I still can’t get back to the dating scene cuz I have huge trust issues now lol.


Since you've changed, what makes you believe you'd select or attract the same type of partners?


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## lat288 (Sep 21, 2021)

mia-me said:


> Since you've changed, what makes you believe you'd select or attract the same type of partners?


I dont. But trust issues make you see every guy as the same, a guy can be a genuine good guy and you still think he is like those fuckboys you have met before, I cant help it.


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## mia-me (Feb 5, 2021)

lat288 said:


> I dont. But trust issues make you see every guy as the same, a guy can be a genuine good guy and you still think he is like those fuckboys you have met before, I cant help it.


The first and last sentence conflict. Also, the last sentence is ridiculous but you already know that. Let's ignore the dating aspect. Do you feel you're a good judge of character when it comes to judging people for friendships?


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## lat288 (Sep 21, 2021)

mia-me said:


> The first and last sentence conflict. Also, the last sentence is ridiculous but you already know that. Let's ignore the dating aspect. Do you feel you're a good judge of character when it comes to judging people for friendships?


I would say yes, cuz I have gone through too many experiences you can imagine in a romantic relationship, so to speak. I was the victim and I was the bad guy. I have been on both sides of the coin. Now I can smell red flags from miles away. 
But sometimes, people are just genuine good people, and youre just too suspicious cuz you have met too many bad people before.


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## mia-me (Feb 5, 2021)

lat288 said:


> I would say yes, cuz I have gone through too many experiences you can imagine in a romantic relationship, so to speak. I was the victim and I was the bad guy. I have been on both sides of the coin. Now I can smell red flags from miles away.
> *But sometimes, people are just genuine good people, and youre just too suspicious cuz you have met too many bad people before.*


Have you rejected people like this a lot lately?


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## lat288 (Sep 21, 2021)

mia-me said:


> Have you rejected people like this a lot lately?


Of course lol, I would either just string them along and friendzone them, or just act cold turkey towards them, and some of these people I even had some sort of feelings for. 
It was mutual feelings and it could have developed into something, but I always shut it out and continue being single.


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## mia-me (Feb 5, 2021)

lat288 said:


> Of course lol, I would either just string them along and friendzone them, or just act cold turkey towards them, and some of these people I even had some sort of feelings for.
> It was mutual feelings and it could have developed into something, but I always shut it out and continue being single.


Not all people are compatible, regardless of 'good' or 'bad'. I really hate those two words because humans are...human, capable of both.


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## lat288 (Sep 21, 2021)

mia-me said:


> Not all people are compatible, regardless of 'good' or 'bad'. I really hate those two words because humans are...human, capable of both.


Some of them are very compatible with me.
Like this tourist guide guy I met 3 months ago, we were such a great match, but I acted busy and purposely made us drift apart, cuz he was acting very into me and that made me have anxiety (“if i fall for this guy, will there be another heartbreak for me?”)


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## mia-me (Feb 5, 2021)

lat288 said:


> Some of them are very compatible with me.
> Like this tourist guide guy I met 3 months ago, we were such a great match, but I acted busy and purposely made us drift apart, cuz he was acting very into me and that made me have anxiety (“if i fall for this guy, will there be another heartbreak for me?”)


_You can get addicted to a certain kind of sadness 
Like resignation to the end, always the end _~ Gotye


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## lat288 (Sep 21, 2021)

mia-me said:


> _You can get addicted to a certain kind of sadness
> Like resignation to the end, always the end _~ Gotye


Great quote, but I would say I’m avoidant rather than sad. Generally I’m a happy and bubbly person, I just avoid dating guys.


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## mia-me (Feb 5, 2021)

lat288 said:


> Great quote, but I would say I’m avoidant rather than sad. Generally I’m a happy and bubbly person, I just avoid dating guys.


I just want to point something out. The opening post is designed to elicit sympathy as the victim of 'bad' guys but later in this thread, you admitted to being the 'bad' guy often enough. It's fair to say that humans are human, capable of both. So, once you find the right human, your trust issues will likely dissolve without much effort on your part. Oh, I found a penny today so here it is, perhaps it'll bring you some luck in your love life.


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## lat288 (Sep 21, 2021)

mia-me said:


> I just want to point something out. The opening post is designed to elicit sympathy as the victim of 'bad' guys but later in this thread, you admitted to being the 'bad' guy often enough. It's fair to say that humans are human, capable of both. So, once you find the right human, your trust issues will likely dissolve without much effort on your part. Oh, I found a penny today so here it is, perhaps it'll bring you some luck in your love life.


If you date a lot, you will see yourself inevitably becoming the bad guy here and there, its hard to explain, but its inevitable.
Thanks for the encouragement, I think taking some time for yourself is never bad, in the past I never go past one month without dating anyone, now I’m one year in and still single and have never felt better. Just focus on the relationship with myself now.


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## Celtsincloset (Feb 17, 2014)

I’m curious. What do you think are the most common reason for the break-ups? Is it dishonesty and deceit, or ignorance of certain things?

Maybe you can spot the tell-tale signs when you’re interacting with your suitors, and then, you can make safer judgments about who to go the distance with. _Maybe_ that’s a solution to your anxiety, a more skilled/wiser approach to this part of dating.


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## Wax Diamond (Apr 9, 2020)

tanstaafl28 said:


> Where were you when I was younger?


Well, maybe if you try to tell me a precise time I'll tell you what I was doing,
Checking my diaries, fotos...


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## Mark R (Dec 23, 2015)

Celtsincloset said:


> I’m curious. What do you think are the most common reason for the break-ups? Is it dishonesty and deceit, or ignorance of certain things?
> 
> Maybe you can spot the tell-tale signs when you’re interacting with your suitors, and then, you can make safer judgments about who to go the distance with. _Maybe_ that’s a solution to your anxiety, a more skilled/wiser approach to this part of dating.


I think a lot of what makes people break up is incompatible personalities. As an ENTP, I seem to most often get together with STJs. This hasn't been the best pairing of personalities I could have chosen. I trust my ex's characters, but they weren't the best choice as romantic partners. Hopefully, I will gain some wisdom interacting with others at this site.
---------EDIT----------
STJs tend to be conscientious at all times. My ex felt guilty every time she wasn't working hard. I can have "flashes of brilliance" and work hard at something, but consistent hard work on repeated tasks isn't my forte. There have also been conflicts over attention to detail, and spontaneity vs planning. We can see each other's strengths in an intellectual way but not really connect to them. There is also differences in values. My ex values results and money. I value self-expression and creativity. In this way, even emotionally mature people can be a mismatch.


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## Stella_4E (Sep 29, 2021)

lat288 said:


> Long distance is so risky though, especially when males are such physical creatures they actually lose feelings if you guys dont meet face to face or touch in real life. It’s even backed up by science cuz their hormones run differently than us. We females can love long distance just fine.


Exactly😢 sad truth. The guy who cheated on me also was ldr. I often wonder if things would have turn out different if we could have stayed in the same place. 
Me being in college at different state makes it difficult


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## Mark R (Dec 23, 2015)

Stella_4E said:


> Exactly😢 sad truth. The guy who cheated on me also was ldr. I often wonder if things would have turn out different if we could have stayed in the same place.
> Me being in college at different state makes it difficult


Staying faithful in long-distance relationships really isn't a problem for me as I am loyal and committed to my partner by nature. I was in a long-distance relationship for two years fairly recently. It can be a challenge in some ways because it seems like women seem to sense and chase after men in long-distance relationships for some reason. When I am completely single no women bother me.


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## Penny (Mar 24, 2016)

lat288 said:


> How to open your heart again? basically.
> 
> I’m a completely happy person. I have many happy things going on for me rn.
> 
> ...


relationships have their ups and downs. itd be pretty dumb to close yourself off from happiness because youve experienced some sadness. how will you know what happy is if you havent experienced sad? i try to enjoy people for what goodness they bring and downplay the bad. it sounds liek you are magnifiying the bad and using it as an excuse for your avoidant behavior. maybe seeing the bad parts in other people or the bad things they can do or make you feel makes you recognize the bad you can do too and you find it unnacceptable. just accept that no one is perfect and we all can have our faults or poorer qualities. dont be ashamed to have your preferences or "imperfections" of character. we all have them. no one wants to be hurtful to anyone else but if we all truly loved everyone equally then we would never be able to be exclusive with anyone. it may be uncomfortable to thin kabout but it's only natural to have preferences or to "like soemone better" because of this or that or to reject people because of their bad behavior or whatever... it can be tough, especially for sensitive people. i think itd be sad ot reject your sensitivity and feeling for others completely in an effort to avoid this if that is the case. of course much of this reply is based on a maybe that migth not be true for you, but to reiterate, dont close yourself off to other people because youve been hurt. not everyone is the same and im sur ether emust have been some good in the people youve been close to too? can you not see any?


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## pwowq (Aug 7, 2016)

I've not had a messy love life yet find it really difficult to love. _"Why?"_


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## ENFPathetic (Apr 3, 2018)

You decide you want to open up your heart and then you do it.

The reason you're having trouble is because you are not convinced that opening up your heart is worthwhile. No doubt you have legitimate reason for this, but it ultimately undermines your conviction.

Sure you can be happy on your own, but couldn't you be even happier with someone who loves and cares for you?

What about when you become old and feeble? It's easy to be alone and happy when you're young and healthy enough to do whatever you want whenever you want, but not so easy when you constantly need a shoulder to lean on. Think long and hard about what it is you want. Closing off your heart will save you a lot of trouble in the short term, but in the long run it will have you dying alone.

To live is to struggle. Choose your struggle before it chooses you.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

Mark R said:


> Staying faithful in long-distance relationships really isn't a problem for me as I am loyal and committed to my partner by nature. I was in a long-distance relationship for two years fairly recently. It can be a challenge in some ways because it seems like women seem to sense and chase after men in long-distance relationships for some reason. When I am completely single no women bother me.


Regarding women finding you more attractive when you're in an LDR--I have found that men seemed more interested in me when I'm in a relationship as well (I haven't been for a decade though--just thinking back at previous relationships).

I think it's because some people, when they are in love they become happier and that translates to being more attractive.

I've often had more men asking me out when I was beginning to date someone than when I'm single.

I really think it just comes down to happiness for some of us. I'm not good at faking it, and it's probably more attractive than my bitter, mopey mode. lol Not to mention, I try harder to be attractive when I have a partner who I am reacting to--I couldn't care less whether random people on the street find me attractive, so when I'm single it doesn't matter to me. 

(I am not saying this is a good way to live--but it's another explanation for why some people find themselves being more attractive when they're in a relationship)


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## Celtsincloset (Feb 17, 2014)

WickerDeer said:


> Regarding women finding you more attractive when you're in an LDR--I have found that men seemed more interested in me when I'm in a relationship as well (I haven't been for a decade though--just thinking back at previous relationships).
> 
> I think it's because some people, when they are in love they become happier and that translates to being more attractive.
> 
> ...


Agreed. There was this young lady (my age) serving me who was unusually chatty/curious, bothered asking the chef about food for my diet needs, and laughed _hard_ at a pretty terrible pun, that I thought she was interested in me, then I saw the big ol’ sparkling ring on her finger.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

Celtsincloset said:


> Agreed. There was this young lady (my age) serving me who was unusually chatty/curious, bothered asking the chef about food for my diet needs, and laughed _hard_ at a pretty terrible pun, that I thought she was interested in me, then I saw the big ol’ sparkling ring on her finger.


But perhaps it means that if you are not at your best, and someone is interested in you, then...perhaps if you go through a funk again while in a relationship with them, they will be more inclined to try to stick it out and work on it? Hopefully?


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## Celtsincloset (Feb 17, 2014)

@WickerDeer To keep it uncomplicated, a smile says a lot. If you can’t smile at your suitor, then maybe you’re not at the right space yet in order to uphold your ideal relationship, OR, one would be way too shy/nervous to be ready for one.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

Celtsincloset said:


> @WickerDeer To keep it uncomplicated, a smile says a lot. If you can’t smile at your suitor, then maybe you’re not at the right space yet in order to uphold your ideal relationship, OR, one would be way too shy/nervous to be ready for one.


Personally, I think it's better not to make assumptions about people's superficial behavior--like smiling or even laughing too hard. 

I think too many people are overly confident in reading these superficial social cues and that it sometimes leads to miscommunication (such as someone thinking a girl is into them when she may be happy about having gotten engaged, and just being friendly).

If it makes her more attractive to you, that is a reflection of what you find attractive. Not what she finds attractive. 

I only smile when I feel genuinely happy or find something humorous, so yes--if I did not ever smile around someone I would be suspicious that we lacked compatibility. Not when I first meet them or have only superficial interactions, but if I found they never made me smile then yeah, something would be off. 

I am not going to force a smile when I have no reason to though, with a stranger.

Different people smile for different reasons--some people smile constantly to be polite. That is also attractive to some types of people--however, if you are attracted to that kind of thing then you would be unhappy in a relationship with someone who only smiles when they actually feel like it.


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## Celtsincloset (Feb 17, 2014)

@WickerDeer It can be superficial, but a man won’t know if a chick is compatible for them if they don’t smile. In my opinion. Not all smiles are attractive to men, and even fake smiles can be attractive to men.

Would you say, curiously, that a man who likes to see your smile, wouldn’t he be more inclined to see you smile?


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

@Celtsincloset 

Sure, maybe men like to see women smile. They might also like to see women orgasm. It doesn't mean that a woman should worry about fake orgasming in public to get male attention. It would work, but is it really going to be anything but a cheap gimmick? Unless you are an exhibitionist, the desire to see a woman orgasm is fine, but it doesn't ahve to be done in public with a stranger.

Smiling when you don't even know someone doesn't either. Though I agree with you that it can be a sign of compatibility if it's genuine and the man actually made the woman smile.

Or if the man is really into fake smiling and doesn't really care how the women feels inside--he just likes the fantasy that he made her happy when he didn't.

I don't think there's anything wrong with liking to see a person when they are happy or smiling, or healthy or at their best...but my point was that might be why people in relationships seem attractive to others sometimes. 

Because the relationship partner is giving the person what they need/want...and you're seeing that fulfillment. Because of their partner.

So while it's attractive, it's not necessarily the most sure indication of compatibility...because it's happening during a superficial exchange whereas they might be getting their happiness boosted by their partner in more intimate exchanges.


* *





I think it's worthwhile to consider that relationships can cause significant positive changes for some people. Having sex regularly can give you a flush in your skin that is generally seen as more attractive, it can make you more relaxed and less neurotic, it can also give a nice bounce to the hair. 

This is possibly why a person in a relationship could seem more attractive than a person who is single, if they are just showing themselves as a genuine reflection of their internal state, and they are not artificially applying blush, curling their hair, or pretending to be relaxed when they are not.

It's not perfect, any of it--and for sure someone shouldn't rely on a relationship for all their happiness, but for some people it genuinely is nurturing and fulfilling, and that shows and makes them appear more attractive to others. 

The same goes for men.

People often speculate that married/engaged men might be more attractive to women because women want what other women have...and that could be part of it in some cases.

But the other major reason that makes sense, is because relationships can just be good for people. Because partners can help support the other, and you might see a happier healthier version of an individual, in part because they have a partner who is helping their life be this way.

That's really all my point was. Because I hear "women like men who have partners" a lot--and to me this seems like one of the simplest explanations, and it goes both ways.


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## Mark R (Dec 23, 2015)

I saw this video about a woman who left her boyfriend because he showed weakness in an MMA fight. One woman claimed she quit loving me after finding a whisker in my sink after i had cleaned it. I realize I could never be so perfect that I could feel secure in any relationship.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

An ex used to get mad at me often because he'd find a hair in the sink or floor or something (I have really thick hair, and at the time it was also really long). But he would get upset because there was a fucking hair.

This is why it's better to be alone than with the wrong person. I have better things to do than worry about a stray hair that might fall out at any time (I mean I've probably got thousands of them...that's a lot of unnecessary drama/worry--no thanks--I'll just be single with my horribly offensive hair).


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## Mark R (Dec 23, 2015)

WickerDeer said:


> An ex used to get mad at me often because he'd find a hair in the sink or floor or something (I have really thick hair, and at the time it was also really long). But he would get upset because there was a fucking hair.
> 
> This is why it's better to be alone than with the wrong person. I have better things to do than worry about a stray hair that might fall out at any time (I mean I've probably got thousands of them...that's a lot of unnecessary drama/worry--no thanks--I'll just be single with my horribly offensive hair).


The typical human has about five million hairs on the entire body. Most of these can be very small. There are about 100,000 hairs on the head.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

Mark R said:


> The typical human has about five million hairs on the entire body. Most of these can be very small. There are about 100,000 hairs on the head.


100,000 hairs possibly falling is still too much to worry about, especially since having a partner who throws fits over a fallen hair is likely to accelerate further hair loss, creating a self-perpetuating cycle that only results in further unhappiness, possibly ending in baldness for myself. lol I prefer the company of my own hair.


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

This was a year ago!

3 people. 3 people you say you ‘loved’ within a year. Just a year ago.

It’s only been a year. And the first of the 3 was a 3 year relationship.

Sounds like you should focus on yourself. Revaluation on why you’re trying to find love so quick from one love to a next? Why after dating straight one person and then 3 back to back, why you’d be looking at if you can fall in love again? Instead of assessing if you should be subjecting other healthy singles who worked on themselves to someone who hasn’t (for very long)?

I don’t mean that bitchy! Swear to gawd I don’t. Probably one of my largest complaints as someone who is single and dates. Is coming across the people who jump from relationship to relationship or try to relationship rebound too quickly and put their Baggage on other people.

It’s a real common thing for people to relationship rebound a lot if they’re codependent and to trauma bond with the latest narcissist. Narcissists can spot codependents a mile away. It’s only narcissists and other codependents who even want to love bomb, trauma bond, and dive into rebound relationships with people in timelines where the people haven’t worked on their crap.

I truly believe if you don’t check yourself now, the reality is you are likely to continue to have a rough go.

Healthy people date healthy people. If you are not healthy you will not attract healthy. And if you’re not going to attract healthy people why would you want the people you attract?

A big red flag to me is quick relationship rebounders. I don’t take people serious who tell me they loved one person and then another and then me in a small timeline. That’s not even someone who knows what love is.

I wish you well.

In my view you need to find yourself before you wreck yourself. Be okay with being alone.





lat288 said:


> 2020 was chaotic for my love life, I got into 3 different situations with 3 different guys (because I was young and dumb), I’ll sum it up as much as I can:
> 
> 1. Breakup with my boyfriend of 3 years. I even lived with the dude. Got kicked out the house and had to move in a new apartment and started a new life.
> 
> ...


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## Mark R (Dec 23, 2015)

Sensational said:


> This was a year ago!
> 
> 3 people. 3 people you say you ‘loved’ within a year. Just a year ago.
> 
> ...


At least she didn't get stuck for years in an unhealthy relationship. I'm glad the unhealthy relationships ended in a timely manner.

My last relationship was pretty unhealthy. It lasted four years. During those four years I learned to remain calm and emotionally connected to my partner even when she was angry. Unfortunately, this growth wasn't enough to save the relationship. I am grateful for the emotional growth that I can take with me.

I think that working on yourself while being single is overrated because you learn about being better in relationships by being in relationship. You can learn to love yourself whether you are single or not. If you want to be single, be single. If you want a boyfriend, get a boyfriend, but be more careful in choosing.


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

Mark R said:


> At least she didn't get stuck for years in an unhealthy relationship. I'm glad the unhealthy relationships ended in a timely manner.
> 
> My last relationship was pretty unhealthy. It lasted four years. During those four years I learned to remain calm and emotionally connected to my partner even when she was angry. Unfortunately, this growth wasn't enough to save the relationship. I am grateful for the emotional growth that I can take with me.
> 
> I think that working on yourself while being single is overrated because you learn about being better in relationships by being in relationship. You can learn to love yourself whether you are single or not. If you want to be single, be single. If you want a boyfriend, get a boyfriend, but be more careful in choosing.


To each their own. I obviously come from an entirely different view point m. But it doesn’t mean I can’t recognize why you have yours and respect it.


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## daleks_exterminate (Jul 22, 2013)

WickerDeer said:


> An ex used to get mad at me often because he'd find a hair in the sink or floor or something (I have really thick hair, and at the time it was also really long). But he would get upset because there was a fucking hair.


I've had this as well! An ex got annoyed/ grossed out, but also didn't like short hair. 🤣 It's bizzare.

Another ex was annoyed that I didn't want to spend 5 hours a week with his friends discussing theology....in reality, it was them just having the same conversation every week, patting each other on the back for their intelligence....and being pretty grossly elitist. They'd invite other people and not really include them and just go back to the same convo. It was awkward and rude and like....it's fine to have repeat conversations if you want, but stop inviting and excluding people, that's weird and uncomfortable. (I don't mean me, i genuinely mean people who didn't know the "format" of this.) Jürgen Moltmann strangely, is not all I think about. The same ex told me that I wasn't "intellectual" enough to not embarrass him. Ironically, I did/do read larger books, can keep up with my best friend discussing his research, and have never had this problem.....with actual intellectuals, but sure, it has nothing to do with being bored out of my skull. In his defense though, a lot of our relationship was trauma bonding, and that's not a good foundation for a relationship.

Highschool ex always seemed to flirt with/ hit on my cousin. It made me super uncomfortable (i mean....it's my cousin.) But when i brought it up, he gaslight me and said i was being crazy, making shit up, fighting for no reason, etc. When we broke up (because i couldn't trust hin), guess who he immediately asked out? My cousin. 🤣


If my marriage doesn't work out for some reason, and i for some stupid reason want to be with someone, I'm going full time lesbian. 🤣🤣🤣


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## Mark R (Dec 23, 2015)

Sensational said:


> To each their own. I obviously come from an entirely different view point m. But it doesn’t mean I can’t recognize why you have yours and respect it.


We are coming from two different sides, but I think one thing we might agree upon is the pace of a relationship. I think people should make their own choices whether they date or not, but I think unhealthy people often rush too quickly from first date to being exclusive boyfriend/girlfriend. I think it is a healthy strategy to date a variety of different people for a few months before becoming exclusive with one. People who are uncomfortable with themselves may be needy and rush into things.
----EDIT----
I wouldn't necessarily say that relationships are only for two healthy people. Sometimes two unhealthy people can help each other grow to become healthier. That being said, no one is perfect, and there is a lot of uncertainty in entering any relationship whether healthy or not. No one should stay in a relationship that is abusive or without affection. Of course there are varying degrees of this. If there are children involved, the needs of the children should be considered first. It may be better to stay in a marriage without affection, for instance, so the children will grow up with two parents.


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

It’s not that I haven’t seen two unhealthy people evolve and become healthy. But I think it’s rare. And I think usually before they even get there it’s taxing. I don’t tend to think most people will make each other better unless they’re healthier already or unless one or both have major life revelations.

I definitely think I spoke to her probably unrealistic. In the sense that she seems younger. So her timeline will be different.

I was slightly more extreme in what I pointed out to her to try to have an impactful message. That maybe would register with her.

It’s not that I think she can’t date again. Or that she has to be perfect to do so.

She should realize the more frequently she dates where it is close together timelines calling it all ‘love’ is a toxic trait. (Which you and I agreed on).

I’m just a stranger on the Internet with blunt words. I’m not her friend who is going to tell her don’t worry it’s not you, they’re just jerks. (What does she learn from that). If she chooses to dive into relationships head first this will keep happening in her life. Heck she may even marry one but if she dove in head first when the marriage blows up she’ll probably still relationship dive later.

So I was very calculated in telling her something that could make a difference on helping her re navigate her life.

The reality is she is at larger risk to attracting controlling and narcissistic people right now. Because she is asking the wrong question. Instead of asking if she’ll love again or can, after such a short time frame. Maybe she should ask why she is looking for that and wants that right away. I sort of got the impression she is young. Which would mean there’s plenty of other things to do.

Calling out what could become a potentially damaging pattern to a younger person before it does is ok.

She’s using the word ‘love’ very very loosely. I don’t think that’s the same as people a bit older who actively date. And maybe date one person for a bit and decide naw (and never commit) and then date another. So yes you and I can agree I think there’s a big difference between actively dating vs calling everyone your boyfriend and saying you love them all.

And btw this is a similar message I gave my ENFJ daughter who is 18 (when she asked because I don’t solicit). She scared away a healthy guy with that girly tendency to wanna dive in. I told her healthy guys with their crap together don’t wanna deal with that. I made clear to her I’d run too if I was him and the chick wanted to be in a relationship and I love you status too quick. She agreed once I pointed it out. And thanked me for the advice.

So I’m speaking to a young adult here from a parent angle. And I’m speaking as me at almost age 38 who dates and can’t stand codependents or narcissists on the dating scene who never worked out their crap and bring that baggage to others. Healthy people don’t want to go on dates where people start talking about exes for examples. Which alotta people older do.

Also for context when I say healthy people I mean relatively grounded and not obsessed with all their exes. And people who truly understand what their flaws are. People who don’t bring up kids and exes. Blame exes. Try to meet kids etc too soon.

Well what if this girl we’re talking to maybe never has anyone say to her to check herself so she doesn’t wreck herself. Then what? Maybe she’s a ding dong that fell in ‘love’ with the 25th person but this time has a kid she exposes to the person and if she’s that naive what’s her kid potentially subject to? Maybe it could be perfectly fine. But that wouldnt be because the mother protected in this case. It’d be luck.

I bring that up because children who’ve been exposed to a lot are often products of this kinda trashy crap. I’m a product of that. So if I need to speak a bit more firm so this girl doesn’t end up being a ding dong, I will.



Mark R said:


> We are coming from two different sides, but I think one thing we might agree upon is the pace of a relationship. I think people should make their own choices whether they date or not, but I think unhealthy people often rush too quickly from first date to being exclusive boyfriend/girlfriend. I think it is a healthy strategy to date a variety of different people for a few months before becoming exclusive with one. People who are uncomfortable with themselves may be needy and rush into things.
> ----EDIT----
> I wouldn't necessarily say that relationships are only for two healthy people. Sometimes two unhealthy people can help each other grow to become healthier. That being said, no one is perfect, and there is a lot of uncertainty in entering any relationship whether healthy or not. No one should stay in a relationship that is abusive or without affection. Of course there are varying degrees of this. If there are children involved, the needs of the children should be considered first. It may be better to stay in a marriage without affection, for instance, so the children will grow up with two parents.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

daleks_exterminate said:


> I've had this as well! An ex got annoyed/ grossed out, but also didn't like short hair. 🤣 It's bizzare.
> 
> Another ex was annoyed that I didn't want to spend 5 hours a week with his friends discussing theology....in reality, it was them just having the same conversation every week, patting each other on the back for their intelligence....and being pretty grossly elitist. They'd invite other people and not really include them and just go back to the same convo. It was awkward and rude and like....it's fine to have repeat conversations if you want, but stop inviting and excluding people, that's weird and uncomfortable. (I don't mean me, i genuinely mean people who didn't know the "format" of this.) Jürgen Moltmann strangely, is not all I think about. The same ex told me that I wasn't "intellectual" enough to not embarrass him. Ironically, I did/do read larger books, can keep up with my best friend discussing his research, and have never had this problem.....with actual intellectuals, but sure, it has nothing to do with being bored out of my skull. In his defense though, a lot of our relationship was trauma bonding, and that's not a good foundation for a relationship.
> 
> ...


That theology things sounds so stilted. What a douche thing to say--"not intellectual enough to not embarrass him." Sounds like he already embarrasses himself by being such a stuck-up ass.

It sucks to be around people who wear away at your sense of self worth--either by offending you because your hair falls out (or it's short...wtf--but you are not the first woman I've met who had a partner to get possessive of her hair) or being told that you are not intellectual enough. 

It makes it easy to see how you weren't right for each other though, especially when you contrast with relationships that nurture you.

I remember once my ex was telling me how to park at the gas station (even though I knew how to park and drive), and I was so anxious trying to listen to him and drive, that I parked with the gas tank on the wrong side (only time I ever did that--hm...also only time I had to get gas while listening to my ex tell me how to do it).

Then he told me I looked like I had "idiot" painted across my forehead, for everyone to see...this was all on my birthday weekend, on the last trip we ever took (I was done after that weekend). We were driving back. Or I was.

I had been driving because he had locked my key in my car on the way and then HE threw a huge fit about how I didn't have a spare key, and insisted I drive the rest of the way (seriously, I didn't even criticize him...I just wanted him to stop berating me for not having had a spare key made).

He didn't speak to me for over 24 hours (aside from short angry responses--stonewalling) after he locked the key in the car, and when I asked him if he wanted lunch the next day (I was going to make it) he told me I shouldn't have asked, just made it and put it in front of him, and proceeded to berate me for being a "fuck up" and bring up everything wrong with me. This was on my actual birthday day. 

But I was afraid if I did that, he would refuse to eat it and the food would be wasted. So I just asked him if he wanted any before I made it...because we were in death valley, where it's really hot--it would have gone bad. And I knew he probably would have refused and then it would have been my fault for making food that would go bad.

The kicker--he had asked me what I wanted for my birthday a few weeks before, and I had told him, that the only thing I wanted was to have a weekend where we didn't fight--just a pleasant weekend together.

I think that was part of when I realized that it was almost a matter of survival, because I feel like I lost years off my life just from that weekend.

I was driving, and a car swerved into my lane, while I was on this steep cliff--and I had to swerve into the shoulder, right next to the cliff. I remember realizing slowly something like, "jesus fucking christ...the I don't need to deal with a bunch of stupid drama for someone else locking my key in the car, for someone being mad at me for asking them if they wanted a tuna salad...it's enough to try to be responsible for everyone's safety"

So yeah...not fucking worth it. There are a series of straws that broke the camel's back but that was probably the last one.

And how pathetic--I still feel pathetic admitting that that was what I asked for... "a nice weekend with no fighting." SUCH A gold-digger, I'm sure. Because you know it's so fucking expensive to treat someone like a human being. 

And as far as my birthday present? That was it. I remember, I think I bought a pie the next day after my birthday and he complained about it. And that was the birthday cake. The present was my driving us to death valley and almost driving off a fucking cliff while he moped and stonewalled and called me a fuckup.

It's pathetic sounding. Who has to ask to not be yelled at for their birthday? And STILL gets yelled at for offering to make lunch? And for someone else making a mistake?

So that is partly why I found your orc imagery so useful--because for someone who trauma bonds or people-pleases, you really can end up just sacrificing a ton of time, energy, and life, to someone who isn't really supportive in return. And I can easily see how you could end up living a shorter life.

LOL I feel like that regularly--too bad I'm not a lesbian. Like it's a real visceral feeling...everything would be way easier if women were all lesbians. But I think I'm only a 2 on the Kinsey Scale, and I generally only end up romantically attracted to men, somehow.

But perhaps it is worthwhile to look at trauma bonding as well as fawning. But yeah--being alone is far better than being with the wrong person. And it really is a matter of life and death. An orc is a great description for how disrespectful some people can be.

I do think it's women and men though--I've known abusive women, and I think you said you have too. No fun being in a traumatic relationship with anyone (male or female). Better to be alone than with the wrong person.


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## Mark R (Dec 23, 2015)

Sensational said:


> I’m just a stranger on the Internet with blunt words. I’m not her friend who is going to tell her don’t worry it’s not you, they’re just jerks. (What does she learn from that). If she chooses to dive into relationships head first this will keep happening in her life. Heck she may even marry one but if she dove in head first when the marriage blows up she’ll probably still relationship dive later.


You were very eloquent in explaining the motivation and intent of what you were saying. It makes a lot of sense.


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## SubbuS (Mar 7, 2021)

dating game is like squid game - go through all that and end up with bodies everywhere and your broken so whatever you get in the end means little

i stopped too years ago

i thought i loved then but now think that maybe i never can


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## Mark R (Dec 23, 2015)

SubbuS said:


> dating game is like squid game - go through all that and end up with bodies everywhere and your broken so whatever you get in the end means little
> 
> i stopped too years ago
> 
> i thought i loved then but now think that maybe i never can


The whole process of dating is pretty painful. I'm disappointed when I'm rejected, and I hurt others when I reject them. In the end, I usually end up with more or less what I wanted. If the relationship ends, the problem often is that my initial specifications were flawed.


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## 569239/ (Nov 1, 2021)

lat288 said:


> How to open your heart again? basically.
> 
> I’m a completely happy person. I have many happy things going on for me rn.
> 
> ...


i can relate i recently lost my wife of thirty years got married when i was 17 , she had been cheating on me for years my trust in her would not let me see. it's been 1yr 2mo.and 11 days not that im counting . anyway im only 47 and miss the smell ,laugh, touch and conversation of a women but trying to date at almost 50 when i have never dated before and being a 1 woman man am finding it quite difficult then throw my INFJ-T with ADHD into the mix and well lets just say im still learning .to say the least . havent decided if im still holding my wife rest her soul above all or if its just me and a lack of experance . the hardest part i think for me is i put my son through collage he has moved away and started his own family . and women just dont seem to get me i have just about giving up hope and accepted my fate, but really miss a woman around . long stoy for a short answer . Y es i have lost a love and find it difficult to love again , but belive this old dog can still learn new tricks .lmao


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## thedazzlingdexter (12 mo ago)

lat288 said:


> How to open your heart again? basically.
> 
> I’m a completely happy person. I have many happy things going on for me rn.
> 
> ...


I have a very STRONG inclination towards a very particular type of relationship. So finding a suitable partner is difficult when I am unsure how to bring it up casually what I am into without coming across as rather "creepy"


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