# BRAVE: Any brave enough to speak up?



## Coburn (Sep 3, 2010)

What were your thoughts on Pixar's latest animated release? How did it compare to other Pixar films you've seen?


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## onebelo (Apr 10, 2012)

never understood why their films are so highly rated.


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## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

I'd put it around the level of A Bug's Life, maybe right under that.

The exploration of the mother/daughter relationship was probably the best part of the movie, along with the animation itself; however, much of the movie seemed to lack nuance, and while Pixar is known for developing secondary characters, the secondaries in this movie were mostly just caricatures. I even thought the person (avoiding spoilers) that Merida meets in the woods was just cobbled together from a bunch of other caricatures in other movies and wasn't very memorable.

The "monster" was pretty bad-ass though.

IOW, it was pretty enjoyable for the kids (esp girls), and for adults who don't like to do movie critiques and just casually approach films, they'll probably like it too.

YMMV a few percentage points in either direction.



onebelo said:


> never understood why their films are so highly rated.


Because they're pretty high quality and also successful, especially compared with other animated movie production companies. Seriously, when your low-water mark is Cars and Cars 2, well, those movies are on par with the bulk of animated releases in general. They've won a buttload of awards and made tons of money, because people connect with the characters. That's why I found Brave a little disappointing, I felt like the characterization wasn't as strong as some other movies aside from maybe the two leads.


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## onebelo (Apr 10, 2012)

Jennywocky said:


> Because they're pretty high quality and also successful, especially compared with other animated movie production companies. Seriously, when your low-water mark is Cars and Cars 2, well, those movies are on par with the bulk of animated releases in general. They've won a buttload of awards and made tons of money, because people connect with the characters. That's why I found Brave a little disappointing, I felt like the characterization wasn't as strong as some other movies aside from maybe the two leads.


i'll reword. I never understood why people who into films rate the films so highly, such as movie critics. 

they are great films for kids im sure, but the characters are so cliche and the movies really force your emotions. never got it.


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## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

onebelo said:


> i'll reword. I never understood why people who into films rate the films so highly, such as movie critics.
> 
> they are great films for kids im sure, but the characters are so cliche and the movies really force your emotions. never got it.


I'm not sure why you say "the characters" (a description that encompasses, oh, what, HUNDREDS of characters?) are cliche. At least the movie critics typically provide a few paragraphs about one movie to support their thesis; you have this entire thread to support yours, and that's the best you can invest?

Why not pick just ONE very popular character and explained why it sucked? Actually make an argument? (Big things have small beginnings, you know...)

Apparently for many people, the movies seem to not force their emotions but just tap into emotions that already exist.


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## onebelo (Apr 10, 2012)

okay, i'll replace the word 'characters' with 'writing', that seems more apt.

and i appreciate your interest in my opinion but my intention wasn't to debate over these films as i don't think they are worth a serious discussion. like how you wouldn't have a serious discussion over the power puff girls.

so as i said, my opinion on Pixar films is surprise at how highly rated they generally. i think they are made with the intellect for the intellect of teenagers and aimed at people even younger. don't want to say anymore, i will read whatever comments other people make though.


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## nakkinaama (Jun 20, 2012)

To others they seem like the *hypest shit,* but I think theyre just childrens movies. Unless youre childminded. Which is never a bad thing, and in this case Im talking about the teens who watch those films. But I really dont like them either. If I dont like watching them with a kid next to me, why would I watch them alone or with my friends at a movie theater or at home?


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## Cheveyo (Nov 19, 2010)

onebelo said:


> okay, i'll replace the word 'characters' with 'writing', that seems more apt.
> 
> and i appreciate your interest in my opinion but my intention wasn't to debate over these films as i don't think they are worth a serious discussion. like how you wouldn't have a serious discussion over the power puff girls.
> 
> so as i said, my opinion on Pixar films is surprise at how highly rated they generally. i think they are made with the intellect for the intellect of teenagers and aimed at people even younger. don't want to say anymore, i will read whatever comments other people make though.


There are some, like you, who expect absurd amounts of depth with whatever they're into. If it doesn't meet their unreasonably high standards, they don't like it.
I truly feel sorry for those people. You can't enjoy as much of the world as the rest of us.


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## onebelo (Apr 10, 2012)

Cheveyo said:


> There are some, like you, who expect absurd amounts of depth with whatever they're into. If it doesn't meet their unreasonably high standards, they don't like it.
> I truly feel sorry for those people. You can't enjoy as much of the world as the rest of us.


there are also those who make gun jumping assumptions on people without any depth of knowledge of them or anything about them. maybe you would be best off giving those people your sorrys, as they are the ones who need it more.


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## DomNapoleon (Jan 21, 2012)

Just saw the trailer.. it doesn't look appealing to me :sad: pixar is getting worst


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## vt1099ace (Jun 8, 2009)

well check oout what popwatch has to say....

Could the heroine of Pixar's 'Brave' be gay? (Warning: Spoilers!) | PopWatch | EW.com

could it be pixar/media/holywood is trying to 'condition' young impressionable minds? or paranoid hype?

on the otherend of the scale, look at how 'song of the south' has been locked away so no american can decide for themselves if there is a message they want to see.

not to flaming here, just finding it interesting how some over arching hand decides whats accepatable and what isn't...


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## Cheveyo (Nov 19, 2010)

onebelo said:


> there are also those who make gun jumping assumptions on people without any depth of knowledge of them or anything about them. maybe you would be best off giving those people your sorrys, as they are the ones who need it more.


I notice you say a lot and at the same time, say nothing.
Your words have no substance and aren't actually responses to what's being said.


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## onebelo (Apr 10, 2012)

Cheveyo said:


> I notice you say a lot and at the same time, say nothing.
> Your words have no substance and aren't actually responses to what's being said.


you judged my whole character on the basis of me not enjoying pixar films


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## nakkinaama (Jun 20, 2012)

vt1099ace said:


> well check oout what popwatch has to say....
> 
> Could the heroine of Pixar's 'Brave' be gay? (Warning: Spoilers!) | PopWatch | EW.com
> 
> ...


Hmm... _Brave. _Maybe the films title in itself is a message to the gay teens and people to be brave and to tell if youre homosexual, or Im just being weird. :crazy:


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## ShadoWolf (Jun 5, 2012)

I thought it was okay. My favorite pixar though will always be Monster's Inc. and Finding Nemo type stuff. I don't even like Pixar as much as a lot of people. It's good though. I thought it felt short and the story was different from the usual princess thing.


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## vt1099ace (Jun 8, 2009)

having dabbled in computer animation as a hobby, I'm blown away at the details they can get today...even monsters inc....sully's fur in the snow storm!, the lava bit from the starwars prequals...and I feinally watched happy feet two.

blows my feeeeeeeble attempts to furthest reaches of space where hubble couldn't see it!


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## cue5c (Oct 12, 2011)

I've followed the production of Brave since it was first announced that Brenda Chapman, the director of Prince of Egypt, would be writing and directing the film. For those of you who haven't seen the Prince of Egypt or have long forgotten about it, it was based on the life of Moses and did a great job of portraying the hero and the villain as equally good and corrupt along with having some of the most beautiful and striking cinematography I've ever seen. That along with the knowledge that she wrote it based on the relationship between her and her daughter and based it around the idea of creating a new fairy tale got me considerably hyped.

Anyway, long story short she was let go because of creative differences. Apparently, the story was too dark and the characters were all fleshed out, which they felt would be too hard for the audience to grasp. Visually, 80% of the movie took place in the snow, like what you saw when they wandered off and found the old kingdom. They let her go, ditched the snow, and simplified the story down to just the mother/daughter conflict. They also added a lot of "comedy" so it would have a broader appeal. For me, it was two movies clashing that just did not work out together. It was entirely forgettable and the only poignant scene was when things were so heated that *SPOILER* Merida tore the tapestry and her mom having spent so much love and energy on it threw Merida's bow into the fire. When Merida left crying and vulnerable and the mom ashamed was probably the only emotionally on point moment of the film.

So to me it was a decent, but forgettable film. The fact that they labeled Chapman as the director at the end when it wasn't even her story anymore really pisses me off. If you want something that's breathtaking and full of artistry that anyone who's not religious can appreciate just as much, see The Prince of Egypt. If you want to kill time for a couple hours, see Brave.

/end Rant


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## vt1099ace (Jun 8, 2009)

love pixars shorts.....I really dig the jackalope


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## Cheveyo (Nov 19, 2010)

onebelo said:


> you judged my whole character on the basis of me not enjoying pixar films


You misunderstood me(not your fault, I'm terrible at that), I didn't judge you on the basis of your dislike of pixar films.
I judged you based on the words you used in this thread.


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## Angeni (Jun 1, 2012)

The only thing that impressed me was the animation--specifically her hair. I read that they had to have a different algorithm for each strand so that each piece would move separately from the others.

But I felt that Merida was misportrayed in the trailers as a strong, fearless, smart girl who can take care of herself. What happened in the movie was simply an overdone plot (make a wish and then have it go wrong! wow, never seen that). I felt that she and her mother were the only developed characters, and their conflict was poorly solved.

Way below par, in my opinion.


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## onebelo (Apr 10, 2012)

Cheveyo said:


> You misunderstood me(not your fault, I'm terrible at that), I didn't judge you on the basis of your dislike of pixar films.
> I judged you based on the words you used in this thread.


well then you misjudged and jumped to conclusions. i can enjoy shallow entertainment fine. 

it goes both ways and it really annoys me. 'i didnt enjoy that' = 'ohhh, you just didnt get it and need more explosions, go watch transformers'... and vice versa

i can enjoy low and high brow stuff, but they [usually] have to be well done and executed properly. i dont think pixar films are.


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## LightningHeart78 (Jun 11, 2012)

I've been raised a Disney fan and grew up with the Pixar movies, so I'm a fan of theirs as well. Lately, I have been disappointed with Pixar, for Cars 2 and this film, since they're now getting too worried about appealing to a general and/or global audience to even focus on just making great stories for the silver screen. :frustrating: 

The visuals were, of course, stunning, detailed, and original. The mother-daughter dynamic was what brought me to tears when I saw it in theaters. Everything else felt either reduced, or forced. The minor characters? Reduced, as this film seemed to take too much of a feminist's perspective in portraying all of the men as dumb and/or power-hungry hicks. Humor? Forced, since much of it didn't arise naturally from the situation (like in Monsters, Inc. for example), and came off as "Oh, let's make this guy say this funny line." Story? Both reduced to the aforementioned mother-daughter dynamic, and forced into what felt like a very short span of time (in contrast, Toy Story, even though it's only an hour long, wouldn't even feel like a short film since it was more engaging).

In sum, of course it's something for the kids, as all "family movies" are, but don't expect it to be appealing to audiences who are more intelligent than the three Lords in this movie. :dry:

I do agree with cue5c that this felt like two movies, not one, and it shows.


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## vt1099ace (Jun 8, 2009)

i still have 'song of the south' in my netflicks que (3 years now)....even if i never get it, its my little protest against censorship, if enough people do the same for "undesirable" movies maybe it can make an impact of some sort...


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## Mind Swirl (Sep 7, 2011)

I expected it to be better. I'd call it cute but not groundbreaking. 

*Pros: *
*1)* Music (mostly background) was good. No cheesy or weird segues into musical numbers.

*2)* Image/atmosphere/backgrounds were beautiful. Great CG and I liked how they created her unruly hair. I think the feel of the movie was the best part. Really, I found myself admiring the backgrounds, lighting, and textures the most. Lovely artistry there. 

*3)* Interesting idea to show a mother-daughter relationship that doesn't involve an evil stepmother. 

*4*) I really like Merida's character design and look. 

*Cons:*
*1)* I felt like I knew what was going to happen 90% of the time. I think the trailer ruined that for me when I saw that she had three brothers and then in another scene, three little bears were shown, thereby ruining the plot for me as I made the connection easily before seeing it. When watching it, the minute she said "I want something to change my mom" I knew exactly where the plot was going and could predict most of it. It failed to be surprising and I like to be surprised at the plot twists.

*2)* The comedy was forced and mainly slapstick involving the three brothers. It didn't raise a laugh from me. The brothers as bears seemed too cartoony.

*3)* Merida's temperament was too predictable. It was too much the typical headstrong tomboy who is forced to be ladylike and rebels. Something seemed lacking

*4)* The end of the movie reminded me too much of the transformation scene with Belle and Beast

Overall, I'd call the movie safe. Like there was some missing element that could have made it innovative.


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## aravis (Apr 2, 2012)

Brave: eh.
Cars: eh.
UP: SO GOOD. (so many tears in the first ten minutes.)
Wall-E: Wondrous.

Some Pixar is fantastic, some is marginal. Like everything ever.


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## Skum (Jun 27, 2010)

LightningHeart78 said:


> I've been raised a Disney fan and grew up with the Pixar movies, so I'm a fan of theirs as well. Lately, I have been disappointed with Pixar, for Cars 2 and this film, since they're now getting too worried about appealing to a general and/or global audience to even focus on just making great stories for the silver screen. :frustrating:
> 
> The visuals were, of course, stunning, detailed, and original. The mother-daughter dynamic was what brought me to tears when I saw it in theaters. Everything else felt either reduced, or forced. The minor characters? *Reduced, as this film seemed to take too much of a feminist's perspective in portraying all of the men as dumb and/or power-hungry hicks.* Humor? Forced, since much of it didn't arise naturally from the situation (like in Monsters, Inc. for example), and came off as "Oh, let's make this guy say this funny line." Story? Both reduced to the aforementioned mother-daughter dynamic, and forced into what felt like a very short span of time (in contrast, Toy Story, even though it's only an hour long, wouldn't even feel like a short film since it was more engaging).
> 
> ...


Nope. That's not a product of feminist perspective. Much of the original story, which was more fleshed out, was dropped because it was too dark, as cue5c mentioned.

It's really a pity because it had so much potential. It was nice that it broke some long standing tropes, but besides Merida and Eleanor the other characters seemed thoughtless. Very disappointing to see in a Pixar film- they're usually great about character development.


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## Setsuna (Jun 27, 2012)

OK, so I really shouldn't say anything because I haven't even seen the movie yet, but when have I let a little thing like that stop me from chiming in?  I have felt for a while that Pixar was sort of dwindling in quality, and I honestly had this little thread of doubt when I first saw trailers for _Brave_, just because I was thinking of _How to Train Your Dragon _from Dreamworks, which came out I'm pretty sure at least a year ago. One of the reasons that I love Pixar is because they are so imaginative and adventerous with their concepts (_Up_? About an old man and a boy scout? It was Ah-mazing- who wuould have thought?). But the whole medieval Scottish thing immediately felt rehashed to me. I was also already wary because _Cars 2 _was, in my opinion, a total flop, and totally lacked Pixar's usual meticulous attention to detail and total inventiveness. This might not be true, but it makes me feel better to blame Disney now that they're behind Pixar for its recent decline. They're a moneymaking machine, and I think that they're driving Pixar into the ground so that they can make more moohlah. It really breaks my heart- some of those first Pixar movies reformatted how childrens' shows were done, and I can't let go of that old sentimentality.


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## vt1099ace (Jun 8, 2009)

compare brave with disney's/pixars earlier works _(disney when the old man was still alive and pixar when they had that 'hunger' to succede) _with their latest offerings (by reading this thread) I get a sense...of....like...i don't know....they're playing it safe? Hard to finger what it is, but just changed...

know what I mean?


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## mastelsa (Mar 13, 2012)

I thought the plot was rather trite and predictable for a Pixar movie, but it was unique in its exploration of the mother/daughter relationship. There are PLENTY of father/son movies out there, and females are woefully underrepresented in the fiction department, so I thought that was nice. I think a lot of people are really fixating on the plot aspects that they liked or didn't like, but I think everyone can agree that the animation is pure beauty. Some of the sweeping scenery shots actually brought tears to my eyes, which is a _very_ hard thing to do. Jaw-droppingly gorgeous. I would go see it again just to stare at that animation some more.

Oh, and *Setsuna* How to Train Your Dragon was supposed to be vikings. For some reason they had Scottish accents, and there really wasn't anything else that was Scottish about it. The "whole medieval Scottish thing" is done much better and more thoroughly in Brave.


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## xEmilyx (Jan 3, 2011)

Brave had pretty cool scenery shots and all, but I was waiting for it to REALLY get the story going. I actually am a little disappointed in pixar's Brave. It's nowhere near as good as Up and Toy Story. I figured they would've made a better story line since it is pixar. 
oh well...sigh..


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## vt1099ace (Jun 8, 2009)

BTW...how to train your dragon is getting it's own spin off tv show....much like the penquins did from the madagascar movie....yes you can watch the adventures of Hiccup and toothless every week.


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## HippoHunter94 (Jan 19, 2012)

No, it is not among Pixar's greatest. It's not Toy Story, but it's also not nearly as bad as Cars or Cars 2. The film is actually really good, but it feels rushed. As previously mentioned, the best aspect is the exploration of the mother/daughter relationship. It seems that if anyone should have done the various themes justice, it should have been Pixar. 

I think what makes Pixar films so great are their accessibility. They're enjoyable and fun for kids, and they're nuanced and developed enough for adults. These films not only reach broad audiences, but they're very well made films, both stylistically, and in terms of narrative.


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