# INTJ being cold?



## Pinina (Jan 6, 2015)

In the time I've been here, I've seen a lot of comments and indications that INTJs would be the coldest and most heartless type. This doesn't seem to make sense, I can't see why they would be more cold than ISTJs, and ExTJs would be even more cold, since their Fi is even lower. Could someone please explain this, I can't figure it out.


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## Zosio (Mar 17, 2015)

This is just conjecture based off of personal observations, so take them with a grain of salt:

The INTJs that I personally know are very jaded people. One suffers from chronic depression, and the other had an incredibly rough upbringing that made him naturally doubtful of people and any good intentions they might have. They see things through a very dark lens. 

INxJ types in general are prone to being rather bitter and cold because we feel isolated from almost everyone else, being the rarest types. Having Ni as your top function makes you perceive things in ways that a lot of types can't even begin to understand, so we can get frustrated with people for not "getting" or appreciating our thoughts or views. We live in a world that -- statistically speaking -- is predominantly S, so Ns in general can end up feeling left out. With that in mind, it's not difficult to see why having an N function, especially the very abstract Ni function, as your dominant can make life feel rather lonely. 

One of the biggest differences between INFJs and INTJs is that while INFJs are extroverted feelers, INTJs are _introverted_ feelers -- and it's their third function. This means that their feelings can sneak up on them and overwhelm them, overtaking their rationality if they're not careful. INTJs who live in environments that they don't like very much (one where they feel that they're not being recognized or understood) are probably going to come off as cold. In essence, they've put up with enough of the world's crap, and they have little tolerance left for mental incompetence. This can make them pretty snappy. 

This isn't the only explanation, though. An INTJ's top three functions (Ni, Te, and Fi) boil down to this sort of mentality: "Does this fit my construct? Is it logical? Does it fit my principles? If not, then it probably needs to be corrected". They don't come at people with the intention of hurting their feelings, because feelings aren't what they're considering. 

INTJs can definitely come off as cold, but they have a warmer underbelly -- at least in my experience. If you've earned the love and respect of an INTJ, they're fiercely loyal and considerate of your needs. If they're brought down to working off of Fi, they can become _very_ vulnerable and sensitive, much more so than an INFJ (INFJs sort of carry our feelings around in a bag on the outside, while an INTJ's feelings live deep on the inside). This is another reason why they tend to seem so callous: they don't want to express that feeling part of them, it's usually too painful/uncomfortable for them. 

Again, I'm not an INTJ, so I could be wrong on a lot of things. 

(sources: dated an INTJ and was best friends with one for years)


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## White River (Feb 13, 2011)

zosio913 said:


> INTJs can definitely come off as cold, but they have a warmer underbelly -- at least in my experience. If you've earned the love and respect of an INTJ, they're fiercely loyal and considerate of your needs. If they're brought down to working off of Fi, they can become _very_ vulnerable and sensitive, much more so than an INFJ (INFJs sort of carry our feelings around in a bag on the outside, while an INTJ's feelings live deep on the inside). This is another reason why they tend to seem so callous: they don't want to express that feeling part of them, it's usually too painful/uncomfortable for them.


Sounds quite accurate to me.


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## Zosio (Mar 17, 2015)

White River said:


> Sounds quite accurate to me.


*Phew* I was hoping I would get the INTJ stamp of approval. It's good to know that my understanding of you guys isn't too far off.


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## Pinina (Jan 6, 2015)

zosio913 said:


> This is just conjecture based off of personal observations, so take them with a grain of salt:
> 
> The INTJs that I personally know are very jaded people. One suffers from chronic depression, and the other had an incredibly rough upbringing that made him naturally doubtful of people and any good intentions they might have. They see things through a very dark lens.
> 
> ...


Thank you, this seems to make sense. But I still can't see why they would appear more "cold" than ENTJs, or honestly ESTJs either. With us, Fi is inferior, wouldn't that mean we repress it even more? (I don't consider myself cold, or want the label of being cold, I just want to understand why.)


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## Dao (Sep 13, 2013)

Introversion plays a key role as well. INTJs can be even more emotionally unavailable and disconnected than their extrovert cousins because their world is primarily internal.


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## Zosio (Mar 17, 2015)

Pinina said:


> Thank you, this seems to make sense. But I still can't see why they would appear more "cold" than ENTJs, or honestly ESTJs either. With us, Fi is inferior, wouldn't that mean we repress it even more? (I don't consider myself cold, or want the label of being cold, I just want to understand why.)


It would mean that it would be further away from the surface, which would actually make you less prone to biting at people. ESTJs and ENTJs -- at least in my experience -- usually say hurtful things because they're being matter-of-fact and have no idea that it's hurtful. INTJs, on the other hand, have a closer connection to feelings and are more prone to being _actually_ hurtful as a result. In essence, it's easier to piss an INTJ off and make them snap at you. At least, that's my theory.


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## periwinklepromise (Jan 26, 2015)

I think focusing on the xxTJ component alone may disregard what I consider to be an important factor - Ni. I agree with zosio913 about the influence of Ni dominance - it automatically sets you away from the group and makes you seem colder. ExTJ types lead with Te, and are more likely to be involved with the external environment, which is often seen as warmer; xSTJ types, because of their Si, will find it easier to relate to others with their primary worldview.

Being "cold" is basically decided by how you are perceived. Ni is almost always perceived as cold when it's dominant. INFJ is even considered to be cold, and we use Fe, which is generally thought to be super warm! I guess Ni cancels it out? 

In any case, the root of these perceptions is of particular interest to me, but I haven't settled on an opinion yet.


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## Tezcatlipoca (Jun 6, 2014)

Intjs cold = sexy


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## Peter (Feb 27, 2010)

zosio913 said:


> This is just conjecture based off of personal observations, so take them with a grain of salt:
> 
> The INTJs that I personally know are very jaded people. One suffers from chronic depression, and the other had an incredibly rough upbringing that made him naturally doubtful of people and any good intentions they might have. They see things through a very dark lens.
> 
> ...


That's an Fe analysis of INTJ,... so to an INTJ, what you wrote, is full of feely stuff that isn't making a whole lot of sense.

The basic thing about INTJ's is that we don't care about other people's feelings. That doesn't mean we hate other people, it just means it's not very important to us. When an INTJ helps someone it isn't because he cares about that person, but because he thinks he should do it. (that comes from Fi, which is more a moral accessment than actually feeling something. It most certainly has nothing to do with the person he is helping.) And if he knows he can't help because he doesn't have the knowledge or means to, then he won't and that's it.

INTJ's do have feelings of course. But we don't have a need for having feelings all the time. We don't need feelings to be able to think. Feeling is not part of our information processing. In F's this is an essencial part of information processing. So when feelings happen, it's a source of information to INTJ's, not a necessary part to reach a conclusion.


Why do INTJ's seem cold to other people (mostly to F's)? Because often INTJ's will just have a neutral face, meaning there isn't much emotion showing. That's not because INTJ's are cold, but because there isn't a lot of emotion going on. At least not in just normal average daily situations where F's feel lots of stuff all the time.

I have learned one thing about neutral faces. When people see a neutral face, so that is a face that isn't showing any emotion, they will still try to see something. And when there is nothing to see that proves something positive,... the conclusion is something negative. Neutral does not seem to be an available conclusion.


I've also learned that when you want help from someone in a store, it's good to use a little smile right after first eye contact. The willingness of people to help you goes up 100 times,.. just because of that little smile. (I've tested this and it really works like that.) I don't usually tell people about this in real life because almost everyone responds with big surprise because to most people this is something so normal, they can't comprehend someone had to figure this out.


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## Schizoid (Jan 31, 2015)

Am I the only one here who doesn't find INTJs cold?

The ones that I know in real life, they seemed to have this deep emotional sentimental side to them that they kept very well-hidden from the entire world.

I personally find ENTJs much colder than INTJ. I have a difficult time getting along with ENTJ, but I clicked with every INTJ I met.


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## LordDarthMoominKirby (Nov 2, 2013)

The thing is that ENTJ and ESTJ are both extroverts, and so they're more inclined to be people-orientated. The INTJ has no real need for being nice, as it's an introvert.


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## Vive (Nov 11, 2013)

Peter said:


> That's an Fe analysis of INTJ,... so to an INTJ, what you wrote, is full of feely stuff that isn't making a whole lot of sense.
> 
> *The basic thing about INTJ's is that we don't care about other people's feelings. That doesn't mean we hate other people, it just means it's not very important to us. When an INTJ helps someone it isn't because he cares about that person, but because he thinks he should do it. (that comes from Fi, which is more a moral accessment than actually feeling something*. It most certainly has nothing to do with the person he is helping.) And if he knows he can't help because he doesn't have the knowledge or means to, then he won't and that's it.
> 
> INTJ's do have feelings of course. But we don't have a need for having feelings all the time. We don't need feelings to be able to think. Feeling is not part of our information processing. In F's this is an essencial part of information processing. So when feelings happen, it's a source of information to INTJ's, not a necessary part to reach a conclusion.


I disagree especially with the bolded, of course we care for other people, we're not robots, we will be influenced by our emotions, and some INTJs are simply less aware of that, or less connected to their own feeling than others, because of a bad upbringing, difference in personality or trauma. 

Being an INTJ only says something about how you take in and handle information, but not about whether you are cold person, or very caring, or whether you like science or you don't, or whether you enjoy being around people or don't and not even about whether you are a genius or what not. It could be that some combination of Enneagram type + MBTI type, or whatever is more common, or it could simply be that the stereotypical image of an INTJ just fails to take into account all the possible difference between people with the same type.


> Why do INTJ's seem cold to other people (mostly to F's)? Because often INTJ's will just have a neutral face, meaning there isn't much emotion showing. That's not because INTJ's are cold, but because there isn't a lot of emotion going on. At least not in just normal average daily situations where F's feel lots of stuff all the time.


I think what people define as cold is when someone doesn't seem affectionate, emotional or friendly at all, and again I don't see this being necessarily true of any type, we all have lots of emotions, but we all have different ways we could express this and different ways to repress them. Still, the neutral face could give people a very distorted first impression, and it often does.

Honestly I used to see this stereotype as rather strange, but unfortunately "I've fallen pray" to it too for a while, by which I mean that I started acting more like the general idea of what an INTJ was and less like myself, I probably did the same thing with other types I had identified with before. I myself never identified as a cold genius, or whatever, I never would even consider myself cold. I did consider myself to be aloof, a little bit detached, and often enough I could be quite unconfident, but this still doesn't mean I am not an INTJ, I still very much relate to the Ni-Te-Fi-Se stacking, more than any other, and even if we just simply talk about dichotomies I still relate to INTJ, more than any other. 



> The INTJs that I personally know are very jaded people. One suffers from chronic depression, and the other had an incredibly rough upbringing that made him naturally doubtful of people and any good intentions they might have. They see things through a very dark lens.
> 
> INxJ types in general are prone to being rather bitter and cold because we feel isolated from almost everyone else, being the rarest types. Having Ni as your top function makes you perceive things in ways that a lot of types can't even begin to understand, so we can get frustrated with people for not "getting" or appreciating our thoughts or views. We live in a world that -- statistically speaking -- is predominantly S, so Ns in general can end up feeling left out. With that in mind, it's not difficult to see why having an N function, especially the very abstract Ni function, as your dominant can make life feel rather lonely.
> 
> One of the biggest differences between INFJs and INTJs is that while INFJs are extroverted feelers, INTJs are introverted feelers -- and it's their third function. This means that their feelings can sneak up on them and overwhelm them, overtaking their rationality if they're not careful. INTJs who live in environments that they don't like very much (one where they feel that they're not being recognized or understood) are probably going to come off as cold. In essence, they've put up with enough of the world's crap, and they have little tolerance left for mental incompetence. This can make them pretty snappy.


An interesting perception, but Ni doesn't necessarily cause someone to become bitter and cold. I definitely agree with the fact that it could make one more distant, but still those perceptions that no one could understand? I'm not so sure, of course the concept that is in your mind and the words that leave your mouth to describe that concept rarely make a great correlation, though I'm convinced that if one simply keeps and open mind, and starts looking that you could see that many people, without Ni struggle with the same thing. Maybe to a lesser extent, and maybe they don't have those Ni perceptions, though still they suffer from the same thing, not having their thoughts understood by others. In the end, Ni is just another function, with it's own pros and cons. What often makes people bitter in my eyes is not their functions, but their experiences, especially if these harsh experiences came far to early in life.


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## reptilian (Aug 5, 2014)

From my experience with INTJs... They seem to have a very weak Fe, which seems to be the problem in most cases. The strong Fi and Ni combo makes them selfish introverted explorers of within. They seem the most socially weak and awkward nerds on the inside of all MBTI imo, although I dont see that on this forum, these are my observations of INTJs under 25 in real life.

I would also say they have the most problems getting to attract the opposite sex and difficulty in their families understanding them on the emotional level. 

My friend is not the well developed INTJ type by far. When we talk he uses his Te to decipher my information, Ni to evaluate if it fits in his vision and Fi to express his views on the flaws. The Fi can be pretty exhausting, though I do not reflect on his feelings which makes him even more neurotic, sometimes going into tantrum like state. He thinks through on what he is acting like, calms himself down but still doesnt really understand the way he acts is unacceptable for me, I am a strong rejector of Fi.

We get into conflicts because his Fi always supports his Ni's internal tunnel vision , while my Fe focuses on objectifying my Ti. He never admits he is angry or irritated.

ISTJ and ExTJ may not be perceived as so cold because they dont use Fi as strong with a connection to Ni. They might be better Fe users... The difference between ISTJ and INTJ is basically the Si vs Ni. Si-Fi combo makes them a strong believer in social values, they internalize what is right for them and others based on internal interpretation of societies feedback, if others dont see the world as they do they are wrong by social standards which makes it not so personal. While on the other hand, the Ni-Fi user is searching for his own internal values making him vulnerable to other peoples influence on them, therefore they evolve a defensive mechanism that helps them reject the outside world making them seem cold.


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## Convex (Jan 5, 2015)

Vive said:


> I disagree especially with the bolded, of course we care for other people, we're not robots, we will be influenced by our emotions, and some INTJs are simply less aware of that, or less connected to their own feeling than others, because of a bad upbringing, difference in personality or trauma.


That's a strawman, if I ever seen one. If unintentional, read and comprehend before you respond.



Vive said:


> Being an INTJ only says something about how you take in and handle information, but not about whether you are cold person, or very caring, or whether you like science or you don't, or whether you enjoy being around people or don't and not even about whether you are a genius or what not.


How you process information may correlate with interests, and preferences.



Vive said:


> I think what people define as cold is when someone doesn't seem affectionate, emotional or friendly at all


The definition of cold is subjective to the person using. 



Vive said:


> we all have lots of emotions, but we all have different ways we could express this and different ways to repress them.


You're stating the obvious here, the perception of being a subjective definition of cold is caused by expression and repression of emotions.



Vive said:


> and again I don't see this being necessarily true of any type,


This _can_ be true to _any_ type.



Vive said:


> Honestly I used to see this stereotype as rather strange, but unfortunately "I've fallen pray" to it too for a while, by which I mean that I started acting more like the general idea of what an INTJ was and less like myself, I probably did the same thing with other types I had identified with before. I myself never identified as a cold genius, or whatever, I never would even consider myself cold. I did consider myself to be aloof, a little bit detached, and often enough I could be quite unconfident, but this still doesn't mean I am not an INTJ, I still very much relate to the Ni-Te-Fi-Se stacking, more than any other, and even if we just simply talk about dichotomies I still relate to INTJ, more than any other.


Sounds like a personal problem, which holds no relevance.


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## Vive (Nov 11, 2013)

Convex said:


> That's a strawman, if I ever seen one. If unintentional, read and comprehend before you respond.


It was unintentional, I should've specified that I meant that INTJs do care about other people's feelings. I do my best to do read and comprehend my post, though of course I can occasionally read over something.


> How you process information may correlate with interests, and preferences.


I didn't think about it that way, now that you speak of it, do you believe that these cognitive functions are also somehow tied to these personal preferences? I admit that my post was perhaps written too arrogantly, and I made far too many assumptions. Therefore I want to ask you: How do these cognitive functions tie into the concepts of perception and judgement in your opinion? I believe that even though you can change many things, something still remain somewhat the same, and that this has to do with the cognitive functions.


> The definition of cold is subjective to the person using.


I agree, I probably got too hung op on dictionary definitions, and didn't give that much attention to the fact that everybody may have a slightly different idea of what cold exactly is, still I believe that there is some kind of general consensus as to what cold is, even if that doesn't completely fit with everyone's individual perceptions.


> You're stating the obvious here, the perception of being a subjective definition of cold is caused by expression and repression of emotions.


I probably skimmed through the post too quickly, but I think I understand what Peter meant now. I was confused and thought he was contradicting himself, but that was me misreading what he had posted.


> This can be true to any type.


Indeed, I was just trying to show another way to look at the problem, I was trying to make it clear that some types can repress their emotions in such a way that they don't seem cold, basically they do it in a way that is more understood by the people around them, causing these people to not see them as cold, because they understand what's going on with people that have these mechanisms of repression.


> Sounds like a personal problem, which holds no relevance.


Actually with this post I was trying to show you that I had become attached to the INTJ stereotype, and that therefore others could to have this, and that that is why so many INTJs seem cold, because they perpetuate this stereotype. Even if they are not aware of the MBTI system, for many INTJ males there is a lot of cultural bias, which could make them more prone to acting INTJ-like. In short: I was saying that we might not even know what an INTJ does behavior-wise and that behavior could greatly vary for each INTJ individual.

My original point I was trying to make was that an INTJ doesn't necessarily have to be cold, and that they don't necessarily need to fit the general idea of what an INTJ is, because there are many differences between individuals with the same type. Though this might of course not be true, I should have presented it more as possibility, rather than as a "strong argument".


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## westlose (Oct 9, 2014)

I find them pretty similar to us INFJs. The main difference is that they are built to be goal oriented, while we are more people oriented.

I don't think that they are cold, but being Ni-dom makes us look very detached of sensory reality. You would be surprise of how INFJs can look "cold" too when they are in a passive state. 

Anyway, to describe them I would use more the words "reserved" and "detached" than cold.

There are plenty of stereotypes like always.


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## bigstupidgrin (Sep 26, 2014)

INTJs in my experience are warm, caring, but blunt. Nothing wrong with being blunt (on that logic, I wish all of our politicians could be INTJs); I'll just reserve my right to feel (feelz?) butthurt :laughing:.


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## Peter (Feb 27, 2010)

_







Originally Posted by *Peter* 
That's an Fe analysis of INTJ,... so to an INTJ, what you wrote, is full of feely stuff that isn't making a whole lot of sense.

*The basic thing about INTJ's is that we don't care about other people's feelings. That doesn't mean we hate other people, it just means it's not very important to us. When an INTJ helps someone it isn't because he cares about that person, but because he thinks he should do it. (that comes from Fi, which is more a moral accessment than actually feeling something.*

_




Vive said:


> I disagree especially with the bolded, of course we care for other people, we're not robots, we will be influenced by our emotions, and some INTJs are simply less aware of that, or less connected to their own feeling than others, because of a bad upbringing, difference in personality or trauma.
> 
> Being an INTJ only says something about how you take in and handle information, but not about whether you are cold person, or very caring, or whether you like science or you don't, or whether you enjoy being around people or don't and not even about whether you are a genius or what not. It could be that some combination of Enneagram type + MBTI type, or whatever is more common, or it could simply be that the stereotypical image of an INTJ just fails to take into account all the possible difference between people with the same type.


Sorry for having to correct you but you´re not reading what I wrote. You say that "ofcourse" we care for other people. What I said is that we don't care about other people's feelings. Ofcourse this isn't like 100% of the time the case but in general, INTJ's don't care much about other people's feelings. In fact when people get too emotional about things, we get annoyed by it and it demotivates us to help. INTJ's tend to dislike emotional display.

So the motivation to help other people does not come from caring about people, but from feeling an obligation to help from the point of view that it is the right thing to do, which is a motivation caused by Fi.

So what I described is exactly about taking in and dealing with information.

All the other things you said are just a list of wong assumptions which are a spin off of your first wrong assumption. It's important to just read what I wrote and not something else.


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## The Watcher (Mar 28, 2015)

If someone I care about is sufferingg, it's the cause i look for and want to help with, rather than the emotion itself. You want me to hold you and tell you everything is ok, but that is a lie to me; I don't know that it will be and can't, and my touch is no cure or remedy, merely a distraction - countering one sensation with another.


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## Peter (Feb 27, 2010)

jkp said:


> From my experience with INTJs... They seem to have a very weak Fe, which seems to be the problem in most cases. The strong Fi and Ni combo makes them selfish introverted explorers of within. They seem the most socially weak and awkward nerds on the inside of all MBTI imo, although I dont see that on this forum, these are my observations of INTJs under 25 in real life.
> 
> I would also say they have the most problems getting to attract the opposite sex and difficulty in their families understanding them on the emotional level.
> 
> ...


Te to decipher incoming information?
Fi to express his views?
Fe objectifying ???

You really have the functions all mixed up. Perhaps caused by a bias of hating Fi.

Te is a judging function. This is what you don't like. He uses Te to explain what's wrong with your logic.
Ni is what "deciphers" your information.

The reason you don't like it when people tell you your logic is wrong,.... is your own Ti. Anything that doesn't agree with your internal logic will get you upset. Fe in the third position makes you dislike his behavior of trying to correct your logic.

When an INTJ is trying to explain to you you´re wrong about something, from his point of view he's doing you a favor. INTJ's hate being wrong about things, They usually appreciate it when someone shows they were wrong about something. But of course, they don't like it when they´re put down or made fun of (because that's really not fair (Fi judgement)). They may feel embarresed in the moment, but later they'll be happy about understanding it better. But, as you have nociced, it's not easy to get an INTJ to change his point of view.


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## Green Girl (Oct 1, 2010)

I don't know if INTJs are colder than all other types, but I do think its not just stereotyping, at least for me. I have often been told that I am being cold, and it always surprises me. It's usually when I think I was being reasonable and focused.

Maybe part of it is that if someone has a problem I focus on solving the problem, not on how they're feeling. To me, this makes sense. Solving the problem will make them feel better. Talking about their feelings will just distract us from the cause and not fix anything. 

Also, when in a difficult or stressful situation I kind of shut my emotions off to deal with later. They get in the way and make it harder to function. That doesn't mean they aren't there, but it probably looks like that to other people. When my father died I didn't cry at all at the funeral and while making arrangements, because I needed to look after my mother and be strong for her. I just turned off the grief for a while. It was still there, though.


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## reptilian (Aug 5, 2014)

Peter said:


> Te to decipher incoming information?
> Fi to express his views?
> Fe objectifying ???
> 
> ...


I understand that it bothers me when people dont see my Ti as I would wish them too, maybe its like when someone ignores/rejects Fi? 

Anyway, could we collaborate further on the Te, Ni, Fi usage further?
When I use my Ti he seems to reflect it with his Fi, often saying things like "You think its all going to be better", implying I am involving my optimistic perspectives on things, while he is actually doing it, he is adding value there that I did not intend to make.
You are correct on the Te part but it doesnt bother me to know other peoples "logic" and how mine is wrong. I dont like it when he starts to imply I am wrong on the practical basis, which is usually obvious, while my intention was merely to explore the possibilities.
That is when I think he starts to add Fi, to make a sense of value of how his view on the matter is superior to mine. Te is not the attitude as I understand it, it is fact statement based. He uses Fi in collaboration with Te, to show his disagreement towards my views. While Te is used to pick up clues and my false logic beliefs, he uses Fi to express himself and how he feels about my statement, expressing himself in a childish like manner.

Yes Fe is disliking his corrections,yes it is because he shows faults in my Ti, that is what I kind of meant when saying "Fe objectifying", it is trying to make a balance on the topic so we dont get stuck on the same argument.

Ni is what deciphers my information? Doesnt Ni categorize and integrate within? And why couldnt Fi be used in expressing his internal believes or feeling on the matter?


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## Vive (Nov 11, 2013)

Peter said:


> Sorry for having to correct you but you´re not reading what I wrote. You say that "ofcourse" we care for other people. What I said is that we don't care about other people's feelings. Ofcourse this isn't like 100% of the time the case but in general, INTJ's don't care much about other people's feelings. In fact when people get too emotional about things, we get annoyed by it and it demotivates us to help. INTJ's tend to dislike emotional display.
> 
> So the motivation to help other people does not come from caring about people, but from feeling an obligation to help from the point of view that it is the right thing to do, which is a motivation caused by Fi.
> 
> ...


I know that you've said that INTJ's don't care, and I said that they do. You made the assumption (which is a very decent assumption to make) that INTJs don't care about feelings -(_And I must agree, to a very big extent they don't, but I was trying to make a different point_), and I made the assumption that they do. Like I said INTJs are humans, and humans care about other people, everybody acts differently, some try to make sad people happy again, and others like the INTJs show they care by helping them on the long term, to make sure they eventually are fulfilled and so they can have their own success, instead of focusing on cheering them up.

_*(Edit: I got confused, my original point was that INTJs cared about people, not necessarily their feelings, thanks to reading Conve's reactions I was thinking that I posed a strawman - argument, when I didn't, I was just showing where I disagreed. - My apologies for the confusion)*_


> So the motivation to help other people does not come from caring about people, but from feeling an obligation to help from the point of view that it is the right thing to do, which is a motivation caused by Fi.


But is that truly all there is to it? Do you think you really don't actually care for them at all? My point is that you simply do care, like many humans, but maybe you really don't like to show it, and maybe you do a very good job of repressing, and maybe you've had a bad past. It is in the human nature to care for others, and that also means that to a certain degree you do care how others feel, but that's not even the main point, the main point is that you actually do care about people.


> All the other things you said are just a list of wrong assumptions which are a spin off of your first wrong assumption. It's important to just read what I wrote and not something else.


I must agree that I didn't exactly present a good argument, and I should have written the first post differently. But I have read what you wrote in that post and my main point is that they do care, and if you disagree with that then you can also deem all the other assumptions/possibilities I've presented as invalid.


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## Peter (Feb 27, 2010)

Vive said:


> I know that you've said that INTJ's don't care, and I said that they do. You made the assumption (which is a very decent assumption to make) that INTJs don't care about feelings -(_And I must agree, to a very big extent they don't, but I was trying to make a different point_), and I made the assumption that they do. Like I said INTJs are humans, and humans care about other people, everybody acts differently, some try to make sad people happy again, and others like the INTJs show they care by helping them on the long term, to make sure they eventually are fulfilled and so they can have their own success, instead of focusing on cheering them up.
> 
> _*(Edit: I got confused, my original point was that INTJs cared about people, not necessarily their feelings, thanks to reading Conve's reactions I was thinking that I posed a strawman - argument, when I didn't, I was just showing where I disagreed. - My apologies for the confusion)*_
> 
> ...


You seem to assume that "not caring" means "hating" or "wishing less things upon others". But not caring simply means not caring. I think most INTJ's simply don't feel anything in relation to other people. Ofcourse, when it's people they know very well like close friends and family, then they do feel. Like you said, they´re not robots. But as far as I can tell, you´re talking about people in general. So I excluded the group of people that are close to us. This is a small group of people anyway.

But even with people close to us, when somebody is too emotional, INTJ's will prefer to not respond too much. Also, Ni has this property that it's much better at predicting the future and putting things in perspective. Someone that often reacts emotionally but is fine some time later won't get much attention from an INTJ. Does that mean he's cold? I guess many people will say he is, but he just sees the emotion for what it is: A storm in a glass of water.

When someone that isn't normally showing a lot of emotional responses one day all the sudden reacts extremely emotional to a situation, you'll see that INTJ's are responding very different from their normal "cold" behavior. (it means they can tell the difference between a storm in a glass of water and when there's a real problem.)

INTJ's don't have a lot of empathy. Other people's feelings just don't trigger our own feelings that much. But that doesn't mean INTJ's are blind to other people's feelings. Especially as they get older, having more experience can make Ni understand how other people feel, sometimes even better than those people themselves. (it depends on the experiences of the INTJ. Those that get to lead people will learn this much easier, faster and better than those that just look at a computer screen all day.)

But again, very little empathy. In general, sympathy is the most you can get from an INTJ.

Being aware of other people's feelings without feeling something yourself is not such a strange thing. Ni does this. Ni is not limited to the "logical" world. It sees patterns in everything, so also in emotion and feeling behavior of other people. One of the reasons I like the MBTI / Cognitive functions so much is because it helped me a lot to organize and explain the behavior of others. All the sudden the behavior of other people could be explained. Where before I just looked at many people as irrational, now I can even see that emotional behavior has logic behind it. Before many people just didn't make sense to me. Now they do. Or at least their behavior and reasoning makes sense. I still don't agree with them. But now it's easier to understand where they´re coming from. (and this also makes it easier to prove people wrong using their own logic. :laughing


So I think INTJ's really don't care about other people. INTJ's do help other people of course. Just for other reasons than caring about them.

Not showing emotion does not mean that emotions get repressed. This makes no sense. It's faulty logic:

A therefor B does not mean B therefore A.

A: Cars that speed,
B: can cause accidents.

Every accident (B) is caused by speeding cars (A)...... (NOT true!)

A: People that surpress emotions/feelings,
B: don't show a lot of emotion.

Why is the idea that people just don't have the same emotional/feeling response as they do, considered so offensive?


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## Vive (Nov 11, 2013)

Peter said:


> You seem to assume that "not caring" means "hating" or "wishing less things upon others". But not caring simply means not caring. I think most INTJ's simply don't feel anything in relation to other people. Ofcourse, when it's people they know very well like close friends and family, then they do feel. Like you said, they´re not robots. But as far as I can tell, you´re talking about people in general. So I excluded the group of people that are close to us. This is a small group of people anyway.


Well, no, It seemed to me like you were trying to say that INTJs don't care at all and that is something I disagree with, I was not saying that I thought INTJs hated or wished less upon others. It also would've been better if I specified that they I did not necessarily mean a big group of people.


> *But even with people close to us, when somebody is too emotional, INTJ's will prefer to not respond too much.* Also, Ni has this property that it's much better at predicting the future and putting things in perspective. Someone that often reacts emotionally but is fine some time later won't get much attention from an INTJ. Does that mean he's cold? I guess many people will say he is, but he just sees the emotion for what it is: A storm in a glass of water.


I think I sincerely misunderstood what you meant before, in my eyes you seemed to say that INTJs would go away when someone was showing a good amount of emotions, this made me think of moving away from people displaying all sorts of emotions, ignoring them. While now I think you mean that and INTJ won't start helping/talking to someone that is overemotional since they would probably not be receptive to it and the INTJ would feel very uncomfortable with this display of emotions. Of course these people that have short bursts of emotion and then go back to normal will not receive any real help, it would serve to make me confused too, and would make me a bit suspicious of their motives. - I think you and me had somewhat of the same idea in mind, what I trying to say is that INTJs are not cold, even though they might seem that way.


> When someone that isn't normally showing a lot of emotional responses one day all the sudden reacts extremely emotional to a situation, you'll see that INTJ's are responding very different from their normal "cold" behavior. (it means they can tell the difference between a storm in a glass of water and when there's a real problem.)


I agree.


> NTJ's don't have a lot of empathy. Other people's feelings just don't trigger our own feelings that much. But that doesn't mean INTJ's are blind to other people's feelings. Especially as they get older, having more experience can make Ni understand how other people feel, sometimes even better than those people themselves. (it depends on the experiences of the INTJ. Those that get to lead people will learn this much easier, faster and better than those that just look at a computer screen all day.)
> 
> But again, very little empathy. In general, sympathy is the most you can get from an INTJ.


Well, I´m not sure whether the Ni-Te-Fi-Se stacking necessarily dictates whether someone is bad at empathy or sympathy. I've seen an ESTJ, who was incredibly caring, but in a very direct, seemingly 'uncaring/cold' way, though he expressed the fact that he cares for other people to succeed and live a fulfilling life by teaching people his ways of doing things. Which has convinced me that Te can also cause people to be kind in an unconventional manner. But if you say INTJs get better at this when they're older then I'm sure there will be quite a lot of sympathetic INTJs, I never said one had to be emotional in order to understand what another was going through, I just wanted to say that an INTJ actually cares for people and that they do have emotions - some even have lots _(though many of these emotions might not see the light of day anytime soon)_ and that they are therefore not cold.


> Being aware of other people's feelings without feeling something yourself is not such a strange thing. Ni does this. Ni is not limited to the "logical" world. It sees patterns in everything, so also in emotion and feeling behavior of other people. One of the reasons I like the MBTI / Cognitive functions so much is because it helped me a lot to organize and explain the behavior of others. All the sudden the behavior of other people could be explained. Where before I just looked at many people as irrational, now I can even see that emotional behavior has logic behind it. Before many people just didn't make sense to me. Now they do. Or at least their behavior and reasoning makes sense. I still don't agree with them. But now it's easier to understand where they´re coming from. (and this also makes it easier to prove people wrong using their own logic. )


I don't have this kind of Empathy either, feeling the same something when others feel something, especially an outburst of emotions can make me very uncomfortable. But caring is not in my mind the same as empathy, it could be sympathy, but it could and a whole bunch of other things, to care for something is to desire for it to be healthy/in good condition, whether this evokes your emotions does not matter. Still even INTJs have their emotions, and I imagine that for some INTJs their emotions can be stronger than other INTJs. Some people are more sensitive than others, and I imagine that not all INTJs are insensitive to personal insults, and whatnot, some would care little, while you could make other thoroughly annoyed, but maturity also comes into play here. I hope you can agree with me that certain INTJs due to a natural preference and certain upbringing can become very sympathetic individuals.


> Not showing emotion does not mean that emotions get repressed. This makes no sense. It's faulty logic:


That is something with which I agree, however, I said maybe - I was talking about possible explanations.


> Why is the idea that people just don't have the same emotional/feeling response as they do, considered so offensive?


I'm confused, are you saying that you thought I felt offended or are you simply saying exactly what you're writing here, that people consider it offensive just because it's not the same way of expressing as they do? - If the first I do not feel offended at all, I like a discussion  And if the second, well it's probably a limited ability to really place yourself and see things from the other's perspective, but in order to do that, you need quite a lot of experience.


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## Peter (Feb 27, 2010)

Vive said:


> I'm confused, are you saying that you thought I felt offended or are you simply saying exactly what you're writing here, that people consider it offensive just because it's not the same way of expressing as they do? - If the first I do not feel offended at all, I like a discussion  And if the second, well it's probably a limited ability to really place yourself and see things from the other's perspective, but in order to do that, you need quite a lot of experience.


No need to be confused. I never mean anything else than what I wrote. There are no hidden messages. (And when I do intent to say something else than what's written, sarcasm for example, it's blatently obvious.)


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## ferroequinologist (Jul 27, 2012)

All the INTJs and INTPs I have known, beneath their seeming aloof or cold exterior, have all been wonderful people. On the other hand the really cold types are pretty much every SJ type when they decide you are bad. I've never had that from either an INFJ or an INTP, though I suppose it would be possible. But most SJ coldness I've seen has been second or third hand, and I have yet to witness a INTP or INTJ doing this. They just seem to take bad people in stride. For myself, I don't just get cold, I avoid all contact, because being cold is not something I am easily capable of. Plus there are only one or two people I've known who I cut off like this and they are truly horrible people.


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## bluesontuesday (Jun 4, 2014)

I have an INTJ ex-boyfriend. When we were together, he didn't show his emotions, causing me to think he didn't care about me at all. I broke up with him because I felt like we didn't understand each other.

Now we're (kind of) dating again. He admitted that he didn't feel comfortable showing affection before. We recently had sex, and I've never felt as close to anyone as I did that night. I don't even understand what happened. The way he looked at me was... Full of love, I guess? I don't know, it was weird. I'm not used to this kind of thing. Anyway, I think we care too much about each other to ever let our fear of being connected drift us apart.

Long story short: INTJs can appear extremely cold, but they're not.


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## ESFPlover (Mar 1, 2015)

they are cold as f**k, they have no souls, I know one, and they are not the nicest people I know. Its hard to get through to them, they don't take peoples options into consideration.


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## Doran Seth (Apr 4, 2015)

INTJ here. In general I am hypersensitive in picking up on how my treatment of loved ones and friends affects them. I truly feel bad when I hurt or upset someone I care about. 

As far as being cold, I have always been quiet, formal, and reserved but everything I do is out of passion, even though I am not outwardly emotionally expressive. The lack of outward emotional display is typically interpreted as being cold and emotionless. I think INTJs in general don't express our feelings much despite feeling the same range of emotions and empathy as everyone else. In this way I think we are like ducks. A duck's feet kick rapidly underwater while all the observer sees is a still duck gliding across the water.

I sometimes think about how I would be the worst possible game show contestant. I could win tons of prizes and I would be very excited but remain still, stiff as a board, expressionless, with zero enthusiasm in my voice.


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## Arcypher (Nov 6, 2014)

What's with this idea of INTJ's being cold, heartless, etc.?

They are human; they are bound to have emotions. Most of the time, however, they will RARELY ever express their feelings openly. On the more extreme, INTJs can be less concerned about the small nuances of people, which some people find rather unsettling. For most INTJs, the thought of people's small issues aren't too much of a concern for their thoughts, but they will put them into consideration whenever necessary.


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## Lestany (Sep 2, 2014)

It's a stereotype. And one I believe is untrue. 

My dad is an INTJ, my sister is an ENTJ. Comparing the two of them, there's no question which one is colder. I see a side of her that most don't see though. She keeps up a pleasant façade around others. Ice cold around the house, and somewhere deep within is a fire that burns that I have maybe only seen a few times in my life. 

Oh, but it's there. She's just VERY selective on who she reveals it to (usually just my dad and no one else). Not to say she's mean though, it's hard to define. But I'm low on the feeling meter myself so I don't really let her indifference/coldness bother me.

As to why this stereotype exists? I speculate it may have something to do with people mistyping as INTJs. My sister actually did type as one when she took the official tests, because she didn't relate to any of the extravert questions. But the extravert questions are actually more inline with Fe tendencies, with would be the function she suppresses the most, so it follows that others like her might type this way also.


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## ElsaNA (Oct 21, 2020)

reptilian said:


> From my experience with INTJs... They seem to have a very weak Fe, which seems to be the problem in most cases. The strong Fi and Ni combo makes them selfish introverted explorers of within. They seem the most socially weak and awkward nerds on the inside of all MBTI imo, although I dont see that on this forum, these are my observations of INTJs under 25 in real life.
> 
> I would also say they have the most problems getting to attract the opposite sex and difficulty in their families understanding them on the emotional level.
> 
> ...


xxTJs with Fe? Serious? Fe is not social skills it is fitting to hormony under pressure of feelings of anothers. Se is not body coordination . Your post is based on that Fi users sucks. You are definitely ExTP and maybe ENTP. If Ni is tunnel vision, Ti is tunnel logic, Si is tunnel sensing and more... all introverted function are "tunnel". Also your Ne gives you ideas what basically supported by your Fe which is now based on thing that INTJs are cold. Ne is shallow and can make you mistakes in perceiving world. So, you're dumb because you're living in your fantasy


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