# Darth Vader's Enneagram type?



## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

usually he's typed as 8w9, but I think he's a 2w3>8w7>6w7 Sx/Sp
why?
1) too emotional to be an 8. Anakin is total drama queen :tongue:
2) he does not go to 5 under stress. his stress is clearly some type with more bravado and aggression (2-->8 or 6-->3 would make the most sense)
3) his desire for power stems from a fear of losing those closest to him rather than power for its own sake.
4) too trusting and naive to be an 8. 8s do not succumb to the kind of obvious ego flattery Palpatine employed on Anakin to win him over to his side. 
5) one might argue 6, but he is not cerebral enough. 6s are far more skeptical, strategic and noticeably neurotic (at least, 6w7 is). Anakin never really thinks, he just jumps in and doesn't give a damn about the consequences.
6) neither does he doubt himself. sure, he's hard on himself, but in a way which is more shame based than fear based.


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## The Scorched Earth (May 17, 2010)

At one point during Revenge of the Sith, I thought he could have passed for a 4.


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## Animal (May 29, 2012)

The Scorched Earth said:


> At one point during Revenge of the Sith, I thought he could have passed for a 4.


I vote 2w3. I considered 4, but he's too willing to spill out his feelings and make himself vulnerable for love. Vulnerable as we may feel inside, 4s get power by withdrawing.


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## Surreal Snake (Nov 17, 2009)

3w2


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Surreal Snake said:


> 3w2


he lacks the self control, focus on competency and skillful image manipulation of a 3


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## Mysteryman (Apr 21, 2012)

As Anakin: 2w3 Then he acts like an 8 when he goes Dark Side


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## Animal (May 29, 2012)

Mysteryman said:


> As Anakin: 2w3 Then he acts like an 8 when he goes Dark Side


Exactly!!!!!

Extreme OTT disintegration?


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## qaryoqa (May 31, 2013)

i think he's a 1

i said this for explanation in another thread:


> I'm not counting the Eps 1-3 because I find them terrible. But in Eps 4-6 I see Vader as a One. I thought he was someone who had an ideal of how the "galaxy" should be and wanted to bring order to it. He's easily angered and frustrated by incompetence and punishes people under his command for not being "perfect" basically. No one can live up to his high standards and the "galaxy" is never ordered enough for him. He is seeking perfection.


i should note that i really am completely not even acknowledging eps 1-3 as i don't think that "ani" is in line with who vader is or was. i saw vader as probably someone who wanted to control and bring order to society and had an idealistic vision about the sort of perfect way he wanted things to run. i thought that this probably had a lot to do with his turning to the dark side--his anger and intolerance, and demand for perfection. i thought this before eps 1-3 came out and decided to stick with my impressions of vader (and who anakin may have been) before lucas (imo) changed his character.

eta: as for eps 1-3 anakin, perhaps an 8. but i don't really view anakin as a terribly consistent or well developed character even between ep 1 vs. 2-3. i mean i thought the character in ep 1 was like, omg ideal perfect little giving boy who cares about everyone! how cute! (except he still seemed like a bit of a dick) anyway, the characters in eps 1-3 were just terrible and badly developed and it's difficult for me to take them seriously.


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## psyche (Jan 5, 2011)

That makes sense, the more I think about it... In Revenge of the Sith there's that scene when Yoda tells Anakin about loved ones, "Mourn them do not, miss them do not"...just let go was the gist, that's the kind of thing people have to say to stressed 2s.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

qaryoqa said:


> i think he's a 1
> i said this for explanation in another thread:
> i should note that i really am completely not even acknowledging eps 1-3 as i don't think that "ani" is in line with who vader is or was. i saw vader as probably someone who wanted to control and bring order to society and had an idealistic vision about the sort of perfect way he wanted things to run. i thought that this probably had a lot to do with his turning to the dark side--his anger and intolerance, and demand for perfection. i thought this before eps 1-3 came out and decided to stick with my impressions of vader (and who anakin may have been) before lucas (imo) changed his character.
> eta: as for eps 1-3 anakin, perhaps an 8. but i don't really view anakin as a terribly consistent or well developed character even between ep 1 vs. 2-3. i mean i thought the character in ep 1 was like, omg ideal perfect little giving boy who cares about everyone! how cute! (except he still seemed like a bit of a dick) anyway, the characters in eps 1-3 were just terrible and badly developed and it's difficult for me to take them seriously.


not a chance. 1s have much better control of their anger than 2s and 8s. they don't go around choking people senselessly


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## qaryoqa (May 31, 2013)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> not a chance. 1s have much better control of their anger than 2s and 8s. they don't go around choking people senselessly


generalization much? of course there can be 1s who lose their tempers and perform senseless violence, as there can be 2s, 3s, 4s, 5s, 6s, 7s, 8s and 9s who do the same. 

that said, usually vader's violence was not senseless. in 'the empire strikes back' it was clear that he killed people for incompetence primarily. but it wasn't simply incompetence or failure alone, but also because of his judgment of the person's character and whether he respected that person as someone who was in general, competent.

in 'a new hope' vader seemed to have a crew that he could work with on his star destroyer. the crew treats him with total respect and doesn't make presumptions. there's never a scene of him killing any of them. when he gives an order it is simply followed without excuses or obsequious attempts to somehow impress him. this is how vader imo likes things to run.

unfortunately, in 'empire strikes back' he is no longer on that star destroyer, but is on the command ship. so he has to "break in" the crew. 

before vader killed admiral ozzel he told him that he'd failed him (vader) for the last time. vader wanted to enter the hoth system in secret so the rebels wouldn't be forewarned and begin evacuation. he thought that ozzel pulled out of light speed too close to the system and so the command ship was detected by the rebels. he had probably already judged ozzel as an incompetent worthless officer who couldn't properly carry out orders, but he was willing to give him just a few chances to improve himself. but after enough fails (say 2 or 3), ozzel is out of chances, so vader kills him. ozzel, and other officers, are probably expected to be psychic and know the way vader wants things done, which to vader these ways would just be obvious and he shouldn't have to explain. obviously, vader wouldn't want to be detected by the rebels--attacks work better when the enemy is caught off guard and he doesn't want to give luke (and his friends) time to escape. that ozzel can't see this as important is just another symptom of his idiocy. final ruling: "he is as clumsy as he is stupid." 

the next person vader killed in 'empire strikes back' was captain needa who failed to find him the millennium falcon and instead apologized for not finding it. vader doesn't care how difficult it was to find the ship, or how unmaneuverable the asteroid field was, he expects his orders followed and he doesn't want excuses or apologies. captain needa was judged incompetent even if his character wasn't terribly offensive. had needa not personally apologized to vader, he may have actually survived. but that he valued this matter of honorably taking responsibility more than just getting his job done, revealed him as another incompetent.

at the end of 'empire strikes back' vader didn't kill admiral piett when the falcon got away. i think that vader generally had regarded piett as someone who strives to do a good/efficient job and as generally competent already. piett's character also does not bother vader. piett isn't disrespectful, arrogant, or image-focused, or a whiner, or someone who offers up excuses or apologies. in 'return of the jedi' piett seems to work quite well with vader and is perhaps similar to the high-ranking survivors of vader's original crew in 'a new hope.'

then there's that guy vader started choking in 'a new hope' on the death star. i think vader found that guy incredibly ignorant, stupid, arrogant, and disrespectful. he didn't like him and wanted to basically prove how wrong he was, or show him the error of his ways. but since tarkin was in charge and tarkin told vader to stop, he stopped.

really, i think the only totally senseless and emo choking was when anakin choked padme in 'revenge of the sith.' and that character of anakin, imo, is poorly done indeed and i can hardly see him maturing into darth vader in his later years.

so in short, vader is hyper-critical, intolerant, and expects his officers to live up to almost impossible standards. he finds the characters of some people personally offensive. an officer may not be "perfect" enough either in character or deed/competence or both. he kills those who fail to meet his standards of character, respectful obedience and competence. he doesn't tolerate excuses or reasons about why someone failed to meet his expectations. he sees things in a very black and white way.

to me, this sounds like an overly harsh and critical 1.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

qaryoqa said:


> generalization much? of course there can be 1s who lose their tempers and perform senseless violence, as there can be 2s, 3s, 4s, 5s, 6s, 7s, 8s and 9s who do the same.


once or twice? yes
routinely?



> that said, usually vader's violence was not senseless. in 'the empire strikes back' it was clear that he killed people for incompetence primarily.


it didn't seem that way to me. 1's use of force is more rational and held in reserve. anyone who had given any thought at all would know that routinely killing officers for small blunders is incredibly foolish. 



> but it wasn't simply incompetence or failure alone, but also because of his judgment of the person's character and whether he respected that person as someone who was in general, competent.


this is another trait that was _not_ 1-ish about him. 1's primary defense mechanism is _reaction formation_. they make much more of an attempt to be objective, leave personal feelings out of decision making and don't just kill people because they don't like them (that's more like an 8 or a 6).



> to me, this sounds like an overly harsh and critical 1.


what 1 willing aligns himself with the _darkside_, pursues _power_ at all costs and has grand ambitions to rule the galaxy at the expense of his master's life (as evidenced in the scene where he tries to tempt Luke to destroy the emperor and "rule the galaxy as father and son).

Vader lacks the self control, superego and ideological leanings of a 1. when you factor in his personality in the prequels, it becomes even more clear that he is not a 1.


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## qaryoqa (May 31, 2013)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> what 1 willing aligns himself with the _darkside_, pursues _power_ at all costs and has grand ambitions to rule the galaxy at the expense of his master's life (as evidenced in the scene where he tries to tempt Luke to destroy the emperor and "rule the galaxy as father and son).
> 
> Vader lacks the self control, superego and ideological leanings of a 1. when you factor in his personality in the prequels, it becomes even more clear that he is not a 1.


as i said in my first post, my interpretation of the character was that he has an ordered vision of how the galaxy should be run. his need to have things a certain particular and perfect way, and his need to be in control, were what i suspected contributed to his turning to the dark side in the first place. 

i suspected that he wanted to do away with the emperor long before he met luke. he didn't like being the emperor's slave and he didn't like how the emperor was running things (he disagreed and had his own ideas). he knew he didn't have the power/strength to defeat the emperor himself and would always be a slave to him. but luke gave him hope in that he knew that together, he and luke could defeat the emperor. he respects the emperor as more powerful and knows that he is a subordinate. but at the same time he doesn't agree with him and he still hasn't been able to run things his way this entire time. 

(also the emperor has been getting a little lost on his arrogant force visions... more and more it seems he only sees the outcomes he wants to see. the more he can't see ahead accurately, i suspect the less value he is to vader.) 

vader doesn't simply wish to rule the galaxy with luke, but to bring order to it (as per his own words). this coming from someone who has a certain perfect way he likes to run operations on his ship (perfectly efficient) lends more to my impression of vader as the way i've described him.

i thought i'd add that killing his officers is efficient. if they suck, he kills them. there appears to be no shortage of people to pull from in the galaxy to train up as imperial officers. he's not going to bother working with people, or spending time understanding their strengths and weaknesses, or sending them to professional development workshops. if they can't demonstrate an ability to do their jobs to his satisfaction, he gets rid of them.


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## a crack in the sky (Dec 9, 2016)

I just did an enneagram test for Anakin's personality and got Type 8. I know the tests aren't that accurate but it's a starting point.


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## a crack in the sky (Dec 9, 2016)

Also, it seems like people have considered every enneagram type except type 9 for Anakin. Personally I think he's type 8, but what's the reasoning behind him not being type 9?


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## Temizzle (May 14, 2017)

Yuck.. please. 

You do realize Darth Vader and Anakin are two completely separate characters? 
The whole point is he lost his humanity and killed what was left of his old personality during his transformation...

Anakin I would type as an sx 4... the need to be a special snowflake and sense of entitlement and that he's incomplete. 

Darth Vader I would type as an 8w9 (sp/sx) minus the fact that he's a puppet to the emperor but that's just part of the story.. he's not a complete human being at that point so I don't think an enneagram type will fit him accurately.
@a crack in the sky,
He's too activated and fiery to be a 9. Completely unafraid to break every rule imaginable and stir shit up... and definitely not for the sake of peace.

Integration/Disintegration lines work too. 
When he's struggling with something he goes into his little chamber of privacy to contemplate his next steps (5).
And the whole point of the story is at the end he learns to let go of his anger and show some compassion for his son -- the sense of justice still at play. Sounds like 2 integration to me.


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## a crack in the sky (Dec 9, 2016)

@Temizzle: Sorry but I'm pretty sure they aren't completely separate characters. Their overall personalities may be different, but they are still the same person. I also don't buy that they have completely different mbti personality types. You can't change your core personality type. If you're a ESFP you won't suddenly become an ISTJ or ESTJ. So I don't think that Vader has a completely separate personality type from Anakin--I think that the different overall personality in Vader has more to do with his behavior than his cognitive functions suddenly rearranging themselves. 



> He's too activated and fiery to be a 9. Completely unafraid to break every rule imaginable and stir shit up... and definitely not for the sake of peace.
> 
> Integration/Disintegration lines work too.
> When he's struggling with something he goes into his little chamber of privacy to contemplate his next steps (5).
> And the whole point of the story is at the end he learns to let go of his anger and show some compassion for his son -- the sense of justice still at play. Sounds like 2 integration to me.


Yeah, that makes sense. However I don't agree with Anakin being a Four. I didn't see anything in the prequel films that suggested that he wanted to be special, or that he felt like he was incomplete. I saw more things related to the body triad in him, like his anger issues and his use of his instincts.


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