# Is school getting in the way of your education?



## Alaya (Nov 11, 2009)

I sometimes think that school is a waste of time. I'm in my last semester in college, and it feels like I haven't learned anything. I have learned a lot more with my independent studies and conducting scientific research in my lab, than what I have learned in the totality of my school career.

I could probably go into detail why I don't like school and of why the U.S education system doesn't want educated people, but rather, working people. At any rate, I'll spare you the details and ask you instead if school life is basically useless to you. Well, is it?


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## Third Engine (Dec 28, 2009)

Yeah, it definitely feels that way sometimes. Of course, for some things ,there's no way I'd be able to educate myself on (like if I actually decided to go with engineering in the first place). But, for my field (psychology), it's not too terribly difficult, but time consuming, and sort of causes me to lose interest because I view it as work instead of pleasure, which it usually is (which, by the way, is actually psychological phenomenon). It's not the money that's a problem for me, because I basically go to school for free, but I could be spending my time getting money or doing independent studying, where I would learn so much more, but I might as well finish my degree now.


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## Alaya (Nov 11, 2009)

Third Engine said:


> Yeah, it definitely feels that way sometimes. Of course, for some things ,there's no way I'd be able to educate myself on (like if I actually decided to go with engineering in the first place). But, for my field (psychology), it's not too terribly difficult, but time consuming, and sort of causes me to lose interest because I view it as work instead of pleasure, which it usually is (which, by the way, is actually psychological phenomenon). It's not the money that's a problem for me, because I basically go to school for free, but I could be spending my time getting money or doing independent studying, where I would learn so much more, but I might as well finish my degree now.


Yeah, I'm studying psychology as well, and it's a joke what I'm being taught in my uni. I'm top 10 percent of my college, and seriously, I haven't done anything to deserve that title. The best way to go is to create your own lab, and learn for yourself

And yes, I posted this topic on the wrong forum. My bad


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## Harley (Jul 5, 2009)

I feel ambivalent about it. Some days yes, and some days no but most days I would answer "yes". Honestly, I can get by with just doing the readings, and checking the powerpoint slides online. This year I've only had 3 classes were I felt it was essential to go to understand the material, and of those 3 one of them uses clickers for marks so that is one aspect that motivates me to go to that class. I also feel that tutorials are a huge waste of time, I just go for participation marks and clarification of the material. Nobody wants to talk, and when they do I feel like it's pretty redundant. I usually want to say something, but I don't want to be the kid who always raises their hand and comes off as a keener, and potentially discouraging anyone who does want to speak up.

The only aspect of school I like is the library as a place to study, and check out books. Seriously, I could just spend the whole year in there reading up on subjects that interest me, and write down my thoughts in a non-coherent way which is only understandable to me.


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## Paradox of Vigor (Jul 7, 2010)

Iconoclastic Visionary said:


> I could probably go into detail why I don't like school and of why* the U.S education system doesn't want educated people, but rather, working people.*


THANK YOU! Our J.D. Rockefeller school system fucking blows. Hasn't anybody running this country ever heard of the word "change"?


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## Mr.Xl Vii (Jan 19, 2011)

Definitely a waste of time, but you need the degrees to do anything in this fucking country. I decided recently if I'm going to be in school I'm going to develop a trade and actually learn something. So I'm applying to art school to learn animation. After I get my degree in art I can decide from their whether I'd like to the go the med school/masters degree route or say fuck it all together and be an autodidact.


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## spook (Dec 16, 2009)

Link: 45% of students don't learn much in college.

"In our dreams, people yield themselves with perfect docility to our molding hands. The present education conventions of intellectual and character education fade from their minds, and, unhampered by tradition, we work our own good will upon a grateful and responsive folk.
We shall not try to make these people, or any of their children, into philosophers, or men of science. We have not to raise up from them authors, educators, poets or men of letters. We shall not search for great artists, painters, musicians nor lawyers, doctors, preachers, politicians, statesmen -- of whom we have an ample supply.
The task is simple. We will organize children and teach them in a perfect way the things their fathers and mothers are doing in an imperfect way." by:​John D. Rockefeller, Sr.
(1839-1937) Industrialist, founded Standard Oil​ Source:​General Education Board (1906)​
I would go to university if one of its main purposes weren't preparing you for employment. That's what will suck all the flexibility out of the curriculum.


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## Lokkye (Dec 28, 2009)

Iconoclastic Visionary said:


> I sometimes think that school is a waste of time. I'm in my last semester in college, and it feels like I haven't learned anything. I have learned a lot more with my independent studies and conducting scientific research in my lab, than what I have learned in the totality of my school career.
> 
> I could probably go into detail why I don't like school and of why the U.S education system doesn't want educated people, but rather, working people. At any rate, I'll spare you the details and ask you instead if school life is basically useless to you. Well, is it?


School is a system for SJs, since you're an NF you don't quite fit.
School wants to mould us into little toy soldiers that will do as we're told
SJs are more evolutionary, whilst NFs are more revolutionary.
SJs wouldn't relate to the NF way of thinking, and since most of the population of the world is SJ anyways the educational system caters to SJ needs rather than NF needs, yes school is a waste of time for most, but you do need qualifications to get into a "good" job. Too bad we're a minority and we're seen as less important because there's not that many of us NTs and NFs


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## cardinalfire (Dec 10, 2009)

I've been thinking about coming up with my own course, that is interdisciplinary and then renting out some space in hall or something and then putting it on for people, charging a fair price in the mid range and seeing what happens.

Manet and other post-impressionists were sick of the art establishment so they created outside groups and communities, the time is coming for this in Education especially in the States and here in the UK. I predict that unless the system changes people are going to start becoming more involved with grass roots education, the 'men's community' is a good example of this.

If you are a young lad and having trouble getting a girlfriend you can find David DeAngelo or any of the others and essentially you are getting taught (whether you are more attractive as a result is another matter - you can take a course in Psychics and that doesn't mean you will be Einstein at the end). This is the beginning of a trend towards teachers wanting their own freedoms back because a bureaucracy, specialised education system does not allow students to see how the subjects relate and while it's important for a person to follow their strengths (ie don't do biology if you are Bob Dylan) having a degree of expansion is important, hell it certainly didn't hurt Da Vinci to be broadly educated.

Secondly the current system has a lot of gaps in it. The only reason that the men's community took off is because school systems are too polite to say 'you know what boys, you are not necessarily going to be automatically great in the women department, a little training may do you good'. The system also doesn't teach finance (it just assumes that people will be able to handle money when they leave school) and other subjects. 

Personally condoning a course in Finance to me condones capitalism, which it's down the student to agree with rather than having it in school as if it was an 'objective system' - if you catch my drift! ANYWAY...

The point being this - I predict education is going to be largely independent and privatised over the future, unless the system changes, so that teachers can have the freedom to teach what they want, in the way they want. Not to mention the current system involves more meetings, markers, checks etc than time spent teaching students. A certain level of Bureaucracy is needed in a large system, trouble is it's build on poor foundations. See Sir Ken Robinson on youtube for another look at this.


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## Kilgore Trout (Jun 25, 2010)

"If you want to get laid, go to college. If you want an education, go to the library." - Frank Zappa


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## Baudolina (Feb 11, 2011)

I agree 100%. Lectures are for the most part a regurgitation (and a poor one at that) of what is in the textbook. I majored in physics and math for undergrad and I hardly ever went to class, just read the textbook, and it had zero impact on my grades. Actually, not going to class and knowing my fellow students helped in a way: I had to do the homework all on my own, whereas they did it as a group. Too much of college is a dog and pony show. Learning really takes place in the cafe while you pour over your books in solitude.


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## Alaya (Nov 11, 2009)

Mr.Xl Vii said:


> Definitely a waste of time, but you need the degrees to do anything in this fucking country.


That is the reason I'm in college in the first place. I've known several friends of mine who could be considered geniuses, but because they lack a degree, most people won't take them seriously. But considering their talents, it is such a shame that they don't have the recognition they deserve.


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## Protagoras (Sep 12, 2010)

Yeah, I only go there for social and economical reasons (social network, brushing up my resume, etc.), but besides social conventions and economical necessities... there's not really a reason for me to go to school. I won't learn much useful stuff over there and I often feel like an intellectual slave when I'm there. Besides, it's tiresome and a huge expenditure of energy for me... When I get home I often need to relax for an hour or two, simply because I'm just too tired from being there the entire day. If I didn't go to school I could have learned quantum theory by now, but currently I'm just too tired and stressed out by school to even start studying it. *sigh*


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## jbking (Jun 4, 2010)

*My personal answer....*



Paradox of Vigor said:


> Hasn't anybody running this country ever heard of the word "change"?


Yeah but that was back in the 18th and 19th centuries when there were wars fought within the U.S. about some changes that not everyone agreed with back in the day. I'm thinking of the American Revolutionary War, War of 1812 and the Civil War as specific examples where the country was changed quite a bit by those wars. This could be seen as a bit of a smart alec answer, but then I suspect the question was meant in a rhetorical way.

One take on this that I can admire even if it is a bit old now as this is from 2004:


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## RocketMikari (Feb 14, 2011)

The same thing happened to me with computers in college. But really I wasn't there only for information, I was there to get the actual document saying I had a degree in case I needed to present that for my benefit.


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## antiant (Jul 4, 2010)

To the OP: That is the very reason why I dropped out of college. College is for wage slavers, not for education. I can get an education on my own and it's free, I might add. 

There is another thread that is similar to yours where I posted this:






It pretty much sums up everything for me.

P.S. - The title of this thread sounded like an infomercial. Is school getting in the way of your education? Are you tired of your teachers giving you boring homework? Are you tired of not having a social life? Are you tired of eating Top Ramen noodles? Then you need (insert whatever gimmick here)....!!!! Just three easy payments of 30,000 dollars! No C.O.D.'s, illegal in the states of NY, CA and NH, void where prohibited, having a bank account with loads of money in it is advised. Make check or money order payable to: We Make You Go Into Debt So That You Can Waste Your Life Paying The Shit Off Only To Retire At 70 And Die One Year Later With No Social Security In Sight! *Inc.*_orrupt_erated. P.O. Box 666 Fuckyouuptheass, VA.

But wait!!!! There's more! If you call within the next 30 minutes, you'll get two free online classes for the value of 10,000 dollars!!!!!!!!!! Don't delay! Our value pack is unbeatable! Call 1-800-I-am-totally-fucked today!

LOL, I had to laugh, but seriously that's what "education" is to me, a fucking gimmick.


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## Thrifty Walrus (Jul 8, 2010)

I think you learn as much as you want to. If you just go to class and do whatever you have to and get the B and get out, then of course you won't learn anything. I think most people don't realize if you really want to learn you're gonna have to dedicate the vast majority of your time to it, someone said "Well I take a break for a couple hours once I get home", that's fine, but you should probably read or something in that time. How much time do you guys spend really, truly doing nothing? I found I was doing that quite a bit, just "zoning out" and web surfing or something, it's a hard habit to break, but just make sure you're actively thinking and trying most of the time and you should be fine.


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## INTJ_Pyromaniac (Nov 26, 2010)

This is definitely interesting....and sadly very true, especially what the one person posted with the quote by Rockefeller...that fills me with a white-hot rage that burns with the intensity of a thousand supernovas, that they are trying to crush the individuality and intelligence of these students...I'm stuck in the system for another year and few months, and by system I mean high school. I suggest you read some of the stuff by John Taylor Gatto especially his two books "Dumbing us Down: The Hidden Curriculum of Compulsory Schooling" and Weapons of Mass Instruction: A Schoolteacher's Journey through the Dark World of Compulsory Schooling


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## teddy564339 (Jun 23, 2010)

I agree with these notions about US public high school, but it wasn't true in my college experience. Maybe it's because I went to a smaller, private university, but I enjoyed a lot of my college classes. Yeah, some of it was in the books, but my professors gave a lot of great and interesting insight, and my classes were small enough that often there was good class discussion...you can't get that experience from a book. I got great insights in my social sciences classes, literature classes, and religion classes. Even my computer programming classes taught me some neat things.

I guess part of this might be attributed to me being an ISFJ, but I don't think so. In high school, yes...it was catered to my SJness. But my college experience wasn't like that.


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## wandai (Feb 8, 2011)

Sigh. I'm sorry but I have to disagree. School/college is not that bad. I especially like the like-minded individuals who attending the same class. I always learn more from discussions, be it inside or outside of the class. Granted you could learn by yourself. But who knows, maybe you have subjected yourself to some sort of biases? I mean, would you know what you don't know when you're learning things? 


And for economics reason, almost every jobs requires Bachelor's degree, minimum (I'm pretty sure all science-based courses requires, on average, a PhD). Take it as an investment. No matter how genius you are, if you can't prove your qualifications, it wouldn't matter.


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## topgun31 (Nov 23, 2010)

I'm taking a couple years off from school right now. As far as college goes, I've learned more about the world during my two years off than during my entire 4 years of college. My time off from academics gave me the freedom to read up and research whatever i pleased. I've probably read more books and articles on my time off than I did in college haha. Also, my time in the workforce opened my eyes to the reality of working. 

The exception was during my time studying abroad (with consisted of field studies) and during humanities and anthro classes. There was one athro class where all we did was debate issues, and the professor acted as a moderator. There was NO formal lecture, and everyone was encourage to participate. This was one of the best classes that I've been to.

I DO like the college environment. The social atmosphere is amazing. The areas themselves (with the exception of 300-person classes) and the proximity to like-minded individuals are very conducive to learning. But the METHODS of education are pretty outdated, and they need to be changed, much like that RSA Animate says.


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## z5500x4 (Dec 7, 2010)

It often feels like it. Though, I do learn a lot in my classes.


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## PianoWizzy (Feb 19, 2011)

In full reality, I still go to school because it's fun [of course, this is obviously not a public school]. Besides that, I rarely carry any knowledge on to the next year and I hardly learn anything, this is true, although I do well on tests and such. Most of what they teach in school is useless anyway, try as they might to create a generation of "well rounded" "_individuals_". *rolls eyes*


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## Stolen (Apr 5, 2010)

Yessssss. 

So much superfluous reading and writing. No time to do the important reading/writing that will actually make a difference in my life. 

Well-rounded or not, general ed. requirements are the biggest waste of time and money ever. Couldn't I have learned all this stuff in high school, if things were done properly?

I'm struggling badly with motivation for college, though I can easily motivate myself to study any number of topics on the side.


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## wandai (Feb 8, 2011)

TentacleZoom said:


> Yessssss.
> I'm struggling badly with motivation for college, though I can easily motivate myself to study any number of topics on the side.


1 question: Why don't you pick a major that is related to the topics you're interested in?


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## Elwin (Feb 17, 2011)

wandai said:


> 1 question: Why don't you pick a major that is related to the topics you're interested in?


You have to take gen ed courses regardless of major.


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## Stolen (Apr 5, 2010)

wandai said:


> 1 question: Why don't you pick a major that is related to the topics you're interested in?


Wanderlust, and impractical interests (Irish studies? Minority languages? Sigh....) 

And what the poster above me said. I'll probably lack motivation until I determine some kind of path.


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## nevermore (Oct 1, 2010)

To my detriment, perhaps, I don't let it...


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## madame cabanis (Jul 23, 2010)

I'm confused by this question. Isn't education supposed to teach? School is an institution for teaching.


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## nevermore (Oct 1, 2010)

madame cabanis said:


> I'm confused by this question. Isn't education supposed to teach? School is an institution for teaching.


Yes, teaching what THEY think is "relevant", and then only for the practical purpose of getting a degree. Education has become about preparing for a job, not getting a truly deep understanding of the world.


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