# Coming to terms with my type



## deafcrossfitter (Nov 30, 2019)

Hi all,

A friend pointed out that I am actually an ESTJ 3w4. Not any kind of intuitive. Not any kind of intuitive thinker, but an extroverted thinker. And...this makes sense. Part of me feels at home, finally. Another part of me, feels kind of 'meh' about it because there is such a heavy, thick, bias that saturates the MBTI community on the internet. If you all had this internal bias, what did you do to fix it? Currently looking at aesthetics of bad ass women running multimillion corporate dollar businesses haha, with beautiful clothes, make-up, bullet-journals with thick strikes of pen, old and beautiful cars...


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## Sinuous (Jun 18, 2021)

deafcrossfitter said:


> Hi all,
> 
> A friend pointed out that I am actually an ESTJ 3w4. Not any kind of intuitive. Not any kind of intuitive thinker, but an extroverted thinker. And...this makes sense. Part of me feels at home, finally. Another part of me, feels kind of 'meh' about it because there is such a heavy, thick, bias that saturates the MBTI community on the internet. If you all had this internal bias, what did you do to fix it? Currently looking at aesthetics of bad ass women running multimillion corporate dollar businesses haha, with beautiful clothes, make-up, bullet-journals with thick strikes of pen, old and beautiful cars...


IMO mbti/cognitive functions 
-can explain some behaviors, but not all behaviors.
-can describe an aspect of a personality, but not a whole personality.
-it is just a theory. 
-the brain is complex and this mbti thing simplify the process of understanding yourself, and how you act....etc.. or how a psychologist might analyze/describe you, and that should not be the only thing that’s used to describe a personality. 
-the questions are so... limiting, if I want to consider A situation then I would have to also consider B,C that lead to acting on D .. but if I wanted to consider E situation then I would have to consider F,G that led to H decision. If I wanted to generalize then I can’t because x has many inputs that were not same as y so both x,y can’t give the same output. Or decisions. Or feelings.


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## deafcrossfitter (Nov 30, 2019)

Sinuous said:


> IMO mbti/cognitive functions
> -can explain some behaviors, but not all behaviors.
> -can describe an aspect of a personality, but not a whole personality.
> -it is just a theory.
> ...


 Right? Generalizations are wack and oppressive, dude!


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## Bella2016 (Mar 5, 2013)

deafcrossfitter said:


> Hi all,
> 
> A friend pointed out that I am actually an ESTJ 3w4. Not any kind of intuitive. Not any kind of intuitive thinker, but an extroverted thinker. And...this makes sense. Part of me feels at home, finally. Another part of me, feels kind of 'meh' about it because there is such a heavy, thick, bias that saturates the MBTI community on the internet. If you all had this internal bias, what did you do to fix it? Currently looking at aesthetics of bad ass women running multimillion corporate dollar businesses haha, with beautiful clothes, make-up, bullet-journals with thick strikes of pen, old and beautiful cars...


ESFJ? I don't know, because I don't know you. Have you read much about ENFJ?


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## Lauren222 (Apr 10, 2021)

deafcrossfitter said:


> because there is such a heavy, thick, bias that saturates the MBTI community on the internet.


Not having N as dom or auxiliary doesn’t mean you’re not Intuitive at all. It just means that your brain doesn’t really prioritise intuition on a 24/7 basis.

From what I’ve seen when a person has a certain function as their child/tertiary function they can be almost as good at using it as a person who has it in the dominant position, but only situationally in the specific areas they choose to use it in (and they’ve had practice at). I made a thread about the child function some time ago and gave the example of an ESTJ friend. I’ll paste here:

🥝
This is just something I’ve noticed about the tertiary/child function. I thought I’d share!

I think this function is not just something you have fun doing, but also something you tend to become really good at in specific areas (related to that function). For example, ENTP has Fe as the child function so they might do well in music like singing or playing an instrument. That does not mean they are using Fe all the time as a feeler would.. but in the areas where they choose to use it, they can do great, because they are getting a lot of practice.

Another example.. an ESTJ woman I was friends with studied and worked in marketing and just about everyone who knew her saw her as an “idea person”. Maybe she wasn’t using her Intuition 24/7 as an Extroverted Intuitive would.. but when she did use it, she used it well.

It’s kind of ironic because sometimes people who do have that particular function as their Main function, take it for granted and they might not go into a related career, so actually they might not be socially known as being good at this.🥝


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## Astrida88 (Jun 6, 2019)

Lauren222 said:


> I think this function is not just something you have fun doing, but also something you tend to become really good at in specific areas (related to that function). For example, ENTP has Fe as the child function so they might do well in music like singing or playing an instrument. That does not mean they are using Fe all the time as a feeler would.. but in the areas where they choose to use it, they can do great, because they are getting a lot of practice.


What does Fe have in common with musical intruments? It's for influencing others emotions with the music? Maybe. But there are better ways to play with others emotions.
Playing a musical instrument is a sensing activity. In ENTP case it would be using the Si function. You basically need to recognize and learn how to recreate the sounds, and then teach your body to repeat the process. Singing is another matter. This also uses Si (you need to recognize the tune, remember the lyrics and etach your body to recreate that) but it also involves Ne and Fe because you can't help but wonder what the lyrics mean and why someone wrote the song and why others like listening to it. And singing in front of a lot of people is fun.

I am not saying an ENTP can't be good at playing a musical instrument or singing. But Fe itself has nothing to do with the process of creating the music with either a musical instrument or the throat. It migth only be a motivation that leads to improvement in Si area.

A better example would be an ENTP recognizing someone emotional state and comforting them. I can centarily do that if I choose to and I can be a good "psychologist" because I read people quite well, actually. But it's not my natural state of mind and my first reaction would be ignoring the whole situation as if human emotions were not there or throwing a joke or two and moving on. I need to control myself in order to fill the person needs. Which I can skillfully do, but it's mentally draining because I'm acting against my natural tendencies.


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## Lauren222 (Apr 10, 2021)

Astrida88 said:


> What does Fe have in common with musical intruments?


Fe is connected to loud, open and overt expressions of emotion.
Fe child is usually interested in areas that are related to entertainment where they get to perform. Music is one of them.
It can also be acting or something else. This is one of many possible examples of an area where a person might use their Fe function and use it well, even though they are not Fe dom.

🥝A better example would be an ENTP recognizing someone emotional state and comforting them🥝

In my experience, those who would be Fe dom or Fe auxiliary would generally comfort people in their environment on a daily basis. It’s just very much part of who they are and their everyday behaviour.

Fe child may do this occasionally. But they are more interested in having fun with Fe and using Fe in certain areas that they enjoy. It doesn’t have to be music, but generally an avenue that allows them to entertain an audience. I know another ENTP who produces and acts in short films. It could be different creative things that are Fe style in the genre of creativity. Fi is creative in other ways...


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## Lauren222 (Apr 10, 2021)

Astrida88 said:


> ENTP case it would be using the Si function. You basically need to recognize and learn how to recreate the sounds, and then teach your body to repeat the process. Singing is another matter. This also uses Si (you need to recognize the tune, remember the lyrics and etach your body to recreate that) but it also involves Ne and Fe because you can't help but wonder what the lyrics mean and why someone wrote the song and why others like listening to it. And singing in front of a lot of people is fun.


I like the way you‘re explaining the functions here. I was not trying to explain the different functions, as they are defined in theory, in my post... as much as explain the behaviour I’ve observed in people I know who I have typed as ENTP by then going back to the functions. I’m kind of doing it the other way around.

So if I know 7 ENTP people who have a certain pattern of behaviour that I’ve observed and I can tie the behaviour back to something like their function stack, that might give me an idea... and then I’ll post the idea. Do you know what I mean?


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## deafcrossfitter (Nov 30, 2019)

Bella2016 said:


> ESFJ? I don't know, because I don't know you. Have you read much about ENFJ?


Hi there, I dont relate to Fe at all. I'd type more but I am currently on my phone lol

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


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## deafcrossfitter (Nov 30, 2019)

Lauren222 said:


> Not having N as dom or auxiliary doesn’t mean you’re not Intuitive at all. It just means that your brain doesn’t really prioritise intuition on a 24/7 basis.
> 
> From what I’ve seen when a person has a certain function as their child/tertiary function they can be almost as good at using it as a person who has it in the dominant position, but only situationally in the specific areas they choose to use it in (and they’ve had practice at). I made a thread about the child function some time ago and gave the example of an ESTJ friend. I’ll paste here:
> 
> ...


Well, the problem is in the MBTI community that there is a huge bias of individuals who think that anyone who is a sensor is...simple minded.


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## Lauren222 (Apr 10, 2021)

deafcrossfitter said:


> Well, the problem is in the MBTI community that there is a huge bias of individuals who think that anyone who is a sensor is...simple minded.



No.. This is total BS.

As ESTJ you are probably using Te with Ne, at least occasionally. Si is also very important for you but it’s a bit more subconscious than the child function. I know that loops are portrayed in a negative light. I don’t actually agree with this. It can be negative, but sometimes it’s actually really positive. For instance if you were using Ne to gather research ideas and then Te to make sense of them in a theoretical framework and explain them in a way that would make logical sense.

I was talking about my high school best friend on another thread. She is ESFJ.. Fe dom is very different to Te dom, but they both have child Ne.
I was saying how we made up a secret language and it was quite funny because we had code words for different things and different people, and no one could else understand what we were saying.

This is Ne being inventive lol
You would think that maybe INFJ/ENTP would think of making up a secret language. But really Ne-child can do many of the things Ne-doms do (and have fun with this) every so often. It’s just that the priority for ESTJ is still Te/Si... but when you want to, I’m sure you can still be awesome with Ne.

I think we got off on the wrong foot on the other thread. I wasn’t trying to pigeonhole ISTJ. A lot of my posts are observational. When a function is inferior (rather than the child function) the person has more problems with it and can sometimes feel blindsided regarding that function and its shadow. For you this would be in the F (Fi/Fe) ballpark... not the Intuition ballpark.


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

Astrida88 said:


> What does Fe have in common with musical intruments? It's for influencing others emotions with the music? Maybe. But there are better ways to play with others emotions.
> Playing a musical instrument is a sensing activity. In ENTP case it would be using the Si function. You basically need to recognize and learn how to recreate the sounds, and then teach your body to repeat the process. Singing is another matter. This also uses Si (you need to recognize the tune, remember the lyrics and etach your body to recreate that) but it also involves Ne and Fe because you can't help but wonder what the lyrics mean and why someone wrote the song and why others like listening to it. And singing in front of a lot of people is fun.
> 
> I am not saying an ENTP can't be good at playing a musical instrument or singing. But Fe itself has nothing to do with the process of creating the music with either a musical instrument or the throat. It migth only be a motivation that leads to improvement in Si area.
> ...


No, playing an instrument isn't an S activity because S does not = sensory input. The difference between N and S is which information we prioritize, the former notices subtleties and infrequent/less obvious parts of the information, while S focuses on the frequent which is seen as "tangible". The way you describe the process of learning or playing music is the Sensor way tho. Intuitives focus a lot on the underlying patterns and even understanding how it comes together, what techniques to use, etc. Recreating the sounds is not S either... And lol, the top technical musicians tend to be ENTPs, or other Ns I can give you names if you like, some are alive and on youtube even.

Anyways, I don't want to detract from the topic much but your way of describing this is so disinformed. Basically any action we do is S if we follow your argument.


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## impulsenine (Oct 18, 2020)

if you want reality, listen to your enemies and believe the opposite.
Or look for people you're Mr. Nobody for.

friends are biased AF


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## deafcrossfitter (Nov 30, 2019)

Lauren222 said:


> No.. This is total BS.
> 
> As ESTJ you are probably using Te with Ne, at least occasionally. Si is also very important for you but it’s a bit more subconscious than the child function. I know that loops are portrayed in a negative light. I don’t actually agree with this. It can be negative, but sometimes it’s actually really positive. For instance if you were using Ne to gather research ideas and then Te to make sense of them in a theoretical framework and explain them in a way that would make logical sense.
> 
> ...


Hey there, I'm at the gym but I will PM you a bit later. I'm not exactly sure what you meant by my observation being BS lol but we can talk about that more. I apologize if I came off as abrasive on the other thread!


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## Lauren222 (Apr 10, 2021)

deafcrossfitter said:


> Hey there, I'm at the gym but I will PM you a bit later. I'm not exactly sure what you meant by my observation being BS lol but we can talk about that more. I apologize if I came off as abrasive on the other thread!


Don’t worry about it! 
I meant the bias itself is BS.. lol
I’m aware of the bias.

Sure! PM me when you have time 🙂


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## deafcrossfitter (Nov 30, 2019)

Lauren222 said:


> Don’t worry about it!
> I meant the bias itself is BS.. lol
> I’m aware of the bias.
> 
> Sure! PM me when you have time 🙂


I cannot PM you due to your profile being limited to certain members.


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## deafcrossfitter (Nov 30, 2019)

impulsenine said:


> if you want reality, listen to your enemies and believe the opposite.
> Or look for people you're Mr. Nobody for.
> 
> friends are biased AF


Friends may be biased as fuck but they brought up sound, logical arguments, that were correct.
Romania?


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## Fru2 (Aug 21, 2018)

deafcrossfitter said:


> Hi there, I dont relate to Fe at all. I'd type more but I am currently on my phone lol


Have you checked Jung's definition of Fe? Classics in the History of Psychology -- Jung (1921/1923) Chapter 10


> As far as feeling permits, he can think very well, but every conclusion, however logical, that might lead to a disturbance of feeling is rejected from the outset. It is simply not thought. And thus everything that corresponds with objective valuations is good: these things are loved or treasured; the rest seems merely to exist in a world apart.


Because that's what I see you doing here:


> If you all had this internal bias, what did you do to fix it? Currently looking at aesthetics of bad ass women running multimillion corporate dollar businesses haha, with beautiful clothes, make-up, bullet-journals with thick strikes of pen, old and beautiful cars...


And here:


> Friends may be biased as fuck but they brought up sound, logical arguments, that were correct.


I've also made sound logical arguments about you being ESFJ when you've first arrived here and wanted a typing, but you were more comfortable with the INTP lable, I don't remember the exact reason, probably because it made sense to you.
Of course I might be wrong, and you might be INTP er, I mean, whatever your friends think you are.


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## deafcrossfitter (Nov 30, 2019)

Fru2 said:


> Have you checked Jung's definition of Fe? Classics in the History of Psychology -- Jung (1921/1923) Chapter 10
> 
> Because that's what I see you doing here:
> 
> ...


No, I have not read the books. I am always welcome to interpretations of my personality, especially when I put out that request. But if I disagree with a typing and match up with someone elses interpretation...well that's just how it works lol.

I will look at the links you provided when I am done studying tonight .


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## Fru2 (Aug 21, 2018)

deafcrossfitter said:


> No, I have not read the books. I am always welcome to interpretations of my personality, especially when I put out that request. But if I disagree with a typing and match up with someone elses interpretation...well that's just how it works lol.
> 
> I will look at the links you provided when I am done studying tonight .


Enjoy the read! I find it quite nice to jump into Jung's head even if it's just through some text, he puts things in ways people don't really think about them, especially nowadays.
Looking forward to hearing your verdict. 😎


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## Lauren222 (Apr 10, 2021)

deafcrossfitter said:


> I cannot PM you due to your profile being limited to certain members.


That’s strange. Someone eise PM-ed so I thought anyone could. I just PMed you!


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## Bella2016 (Mar 5, 2013)

deafcrossfitter said:


> Hi there, I dont relate to Fe at all. I'd type more but I am currently on my phone lol
> 
> Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


Or an ESTP? I mentioned ENFJ because you thought INTP before so I was thinking intuitive was possible, and you thought J was likely, plus I thought maybe I saw Se, but realising that was way off (I hadn't read many of your posts).


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## deafcrossfitter (Nov 30, 2019)

Bella2016 said:


> Or an ESTP? I mentioned ENFJ because you thought INTP before so I was thinking intuitive was possible, and you thought J was likely, plus I thought maybe I saw Se, but realising that was way off (I hadn't read many of your posts).


Hey there! I've read up on the Se and Fe cognitive functions as proposed by other users...I think ExTJ is a good fit. Thanks for your input. I could see having Se possibly in the tertiary position with my love for style but lack of ability to execute it.


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## tarmonk (Nov 21, 2017)

deafcrossfitter said:


> Hi all,
> 
> A friend pointed out that I am actually an ESTJ 3w4. Not any kind of intuitive. Not any kind of intuitive thinker, but an extroverted thinker. And...this makes sense. Part of me feels at home, finally. Another part of me, feels kind of 'meh' about it because there is such a heavy, thick, bias that saturates the MBTI community on the internet. If you all had this internal bias, what did you do to fix it? Currently looking at aesthetics of bad ass women running multimillion corporate dollar businesses haha, with beautiful clothes, make-up, bullet-journals with thick strikes of pen, old and beautiful cars...





deafcrossfitter said:


> Hi all,
> 
> A friend pointed out that I am actually an ESTJ 3w4. Not any kind of intuitive. Not any kind of intuitive thinker, but an extroverted thinker. And...this makes sense. Part of me feels at home, finally. Another part of me, feels kind of 'meh' about it because there is such a heavy, thick, bias that saturates the MBTI community on the internet. If you all had this internal bias, what did you do to fix it? Currently looking at aesthetics of bad ass women running multimillion corporate dollar businesses haha, with beautiful clothes, make-up, bullet-journals with thick strikes of pen, old and beautiful cars...


Could you explain based on what your friend came to that conclusion? Just curious to know if i can see some similarities with myself. Took me years to actually see my mindset and thinking patterns.


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## deafcrossfitter (Nov 30, 2019)

tarmonk said:


> Could you explain based on what your friend came to that conclusion? Just curious to know if i can see some similarities with myself. Took me years to actually see my mindset and thinking patterns.


 I will PM you!


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## tarmonk (Nov 21, 2017)

deafcrossfitter said:


> I will PM you!


Yeah, feel free


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## Lunacik (Apr 19, 2014)

Just steamroll anyone who stereotypes about your type

idk, tbh I just roll my eyes when people think sensors are stupid etc...but I guess I don't really care what people think


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## deafcrossfitter (Nov 30, 2019)

Hexcoder said:


> Just steamroll anyone who stereotypes about your type
> 
> idk, tbh I just roll my eyes when people think sensors are stupid etc...but I guess I don't really care what people think


LOL at the steam roller thing. Its so true though, I do this in real life without realizing it.

Eh, now that I'm a bit older its . I think its mainly stemming from enneagram 3 vibes. 

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


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## Lunacik (Apr 19, 2014)

impulsenine said:


> if you want reality, listen to your enemies and believe the opposite.
> friends are biased AF


Right, and enemies aren't biased at all.


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## deafcrossfitter (Nov 30, 2019)

Hexcoder said:


> Right, and enemies aren't biased at all.


Exactly. Sometimes this forums logic is garbage. 

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


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## Lunacik (Apr 19, 2014)

deafcrossfitter said:


> Exactly. Sometimes this forums logic is garbage.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


Yeah lol I have to take a break from it sometimes because of that.


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## ESFJMouse (Oct 13, 2020)

FWIW, lately everyone who meets me is convinced I am some kind of intuitive, but I am not at all! I am happy to be an ESFJ. You have a lot to be proud of as an ESTJ, they are AMAZINGLY efficient, and require little sleep.


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