# Hasnt the atmosphere/vibes changed from mass use of smart phones?



## theshowgoeson (Jul 15, 2011)

The same way the vibes are relaxed Friday through Sunday. It’s a real thing right? I swear the atmosphere used to be much better when people weren’t on these so much


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## Handsome Dyke (Oct 4, 2012)

I find being around a bunch of people with faces glued to smartphones a bit creepy. It also probably makes approaching strangers more difficult—people don't seem as open to being approached.


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## The red spirit (Sep 29, 2015)

theshowgoeson said:


> The same way the vibes are relaxed Friday through Sunday. It’s a real thing right? I swear the atmosphere used to be much better when people weren’t on these so much


Nothing has changed much, the only thing that changed is that people with no self control are more obvious to spot.


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## PowerShell (Feb 3, 2013)

The red spirit said:


> Nothing has changed much, the only thing that changed is that people with no self control are more obvious to spot.


That does seem like everyone though. The vibe has changed. I could care less what people do. I actively look to limit notifications and my time online. I've pretty much cut the news out of my life and limit Facebook scrolling. The only thing I hate is when people and their smartphones become safety hazards like the person weaving all over the road because they are on their phone.


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## theshowgoeson (Jul 15, 2011)

PowerShell said:


> That does seem like everyone though. The vibe has changed. I could care less what people do. I actively look to limit notifications and my time online. I've pretty much cut the news out of my life and limit Facebook scrolling. The only thing I hate is when people and their smartphones become safety hazards like the person weaving all over the road because they are on their phone.


I knew it. just needed one person to confirm. I miss less technological times. it used to just be pc's and laptops. now smartphones, tablets, and watches. I dont even go on facebook anymore. just opening it literally hurts me head. most pictures are taken with an online audience in mind.. which warps the genuine sentimentality of it to me.


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## PowerShell (Feb 3, 2013)

theshowgoeson said:


> I knew it. just needed one person to confirm. I miss less technological times. it used to just be pc's and laptops. now smartphones, tablets, and watches. I dont even go on facebook anymore. just opening it literally hurts me head. most pictures are taken with an online audience in mind.. which warps the genuine sentimentality of it to me.


I personally find around 2005 was a great time for technology. We had the internet and instant connectivity, but it was limited to sitting at a physical computer. It wasn't in your pocket. Social media was in its infancy and more of a toy. It didn't spread misinformation and tilt elections. Most people weren't even on it.

You can live like it's 2005 or even earlier if you really want to. They still sell dumb phones and they're dirt cheap. I've seen them as cheap as $10. That takes away a lot of notifications and focuses communication on either phone calls or texts. You can literally unfollow everything on Facebook. I've done it before. It's kind of funny because the code doesn't know how to deal with it. It thinks you just signed up and suggests you make friends to populate the timeline. It'll then just spin and say, "There are no posts to show." That solves all the Facebook scrolling issues because you actually have to go to someone's profile to see what they listed (like you did in 2005 lol).

You can still order a newspaper and avoid click bait. There are still bookstores where you can get books. Write down your thoughts in a notebook. You can still buy CD's or other physical forms of music. Heck, even cancel your home internet connection and only use the library's. There's a bunch of different ways you can disconnect and still live the less technological times. It might be less convenient, but it's totally doable. In a lot of ways you'll probably be better off for it. I know I feel way better not getting constantly pinged with notifications or seeing click bait news articles or even scrolling Facebook.


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## The red spirit (Sep 29, 2015)

PowerShell said:


> That does seem like everyone though. The vibe has changed. I could care less what people do. I actively look to limit notifications and my time online. I've pretty much cut the news out of my life and limit Facebook scrolling. The only thing I hate is when people and their smartphones become safety hazards like the person weaving all over the road because they are on their phone.


So what if everyone? It's still a minor change. In past people got drunk, overdosed opium and did other stupid shit. Phone usage brought us one more stupidity, but when you know how many stupidities are there, phones did almost nothing. 

And honestly, phones probably brought more good than bad.

Just like I said stupid people will have one more option to look dumb or even kill themselves, sane people will have just one more gadget in their lives. Therefore it's not a big change.


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## PowerShell (Feb 3, 2013)

The red spirit said:


> So what if everyone? It's still a minor change. In past people got drunk, overdosed opium and did other stupid shit. Phone usage brought us one more stupidity, but when you know how many stupidities are there, phones did almost nothing.


Phones took it to the next level. Distracted driving is causing car deaths to rise for the first time in decades. Hookup apps are causing STDs rates to rise for the first time in time in decades. There's been a huge surge in cyberbullying and kids are stressed more now than ever. Phones and technology have enabled a lot of these problems.



> And honestly, phones probably brought more good than bad.


And I agree a lot with this. There's a lot of bad that came with the phones, but also a lot of good. The camera on my iPhone is great and I use it almost exclusively to take pictures for my travel blog. I've even had some of my pictures professionally used in promotional material.

Having an all in one computer in my pocket is great. I can have it give me directions and play music in my car. There's a lot of amazing things I can do with the phone that I wouldn't be able to do otherwise.



> Just like I said stupid people will have one more option to look dumb or even kill themselves, sane people will have just one more gadget in their lives. Therefore it's not a big change.


As I said above, there's both good and bad with the phones. I try to balance the both. Having something constantly pinging and notifying you in your pocket is the cause for a lot more stress and anxiety. Being always on doesn't allow people to unwind. On the other end, having instant connectivity can literally open up the world.

There have been studies done saying the instant gratification of phones is short wiring peoples' brains and ultimately causing them to be addictive. Heck, I have a book that I bought that talks about how to leverage this and make addicting products. These products are designed to get you hooked!

Just like anything else addictive, you find a way to limit the addictive qualities. Turn off notifications on pretty much everything. Limit your app usage or don't install addictive apps like Facebook that keep you scrolling. It's not different than saying you'll only have 3 drinks max at the bar. Most bars will keep serving you well past 3 drinks, but it's probably not a great idea to do that, especially all the time. If you can't resist the urge to have 10 drinks, maybe it's time to not go to the bar at all (like don't get a smartphone, get a dumbphone).


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## The red spirit (Sep 29, 2015)

PowerShell said:


> Distracted driving is causing car deaths to rise for the first time in decades.


Believe me, those drivers existed before due to adjusting radio in car and now due to "smart" shit. It's not only due to phones, but to many different factors and phones are just one of them. Plus, like I said before, those people with weak will power due to smart tech will be just more obvious than before. I really think, that if they decided to get distracted now, they also were prone to that before phone era, but for different reasons. Also, it may not be a bad thing for them to get into accidents... This sounds cruel as hell, but if they are too dumb to realize such a simple stuff, we most likely don't really need them either. It's just how evolution works. 

BTW if you disagree with this, please do so politely. I totally don't wanna have flame war here.




PowerShell said:


> Hookup apps are causing STDs rates to rise for the first time in time in decades.


Any data for that?

Honestly, we totally had dating websites before, that's nothing new. Phones barely have anything to do with that and phones also don't tell people to not use condoms or something else during intercourse.




PowerShell said:


> There's been a huge surge in cyberbullying and kids are stressed more now than ever. Phones and technology have enabled a lot of these problems.


Weak argument, this shit happened much earlier and most likely bullying din't increase, but already existing bullies just have one more tool for that, so... yeah.




PowerShell said:


> And I agree a lot with this. There's a lot of bad that came with the phones, but also a lot of good. The camera on my iPhone is great and I use it almost exclusively to take pictures for my travel blog. I've even had some of my pictures professionally used in promotional material.
> 
> Having an all in one computer in my pocket is great. I can have it give me directions and play music in my car. There's a lot of amazing things I can do with the phone that I wouldn't be able to do otherwise.


As long as you practice some basic self regulation, have your values right, phones can do a lot of good for you. But if we are brutal honest, that stuff applies to anything in our lives. I would rather blame capitalism and forced consumption for those things, because they warp our values and can definitely make us behave differently than we otherwise would have. Also, most education systems either completely lack or have insufficient spiritual, value education. It's important, especially in huge cities, where people tend to have much more psychological problems and where people suffer from mass lack of closeness, things that just came naturally in smaller settlements.

It's bad to say that, but lack of this type of education, strong capitalism, growing importance of money definitely makes us more prone to becoming morons. It's not just phones or some other specific things and I feel that in your post you make it sound like you give them the short end of the stick, while in reality there are more factors.

I also want to point out, that phones are just a tools to get shit done and maybe have a bit of fun too. They are like stone tools of modern times. In modern times we pretty much need them to survive and I think they are becoming such a necessity like perhaps stone tools, swords, armor once were. They are simply put, just tools.




PowerShell said:


> As I said above, there's both good and bad with the phones. I try to balance the both. Having something constantly pinging and notifying you in your pocket is the cause for a lot more stress and anxiety. Being always on doesn't allow people to unwind. On the other end, having instant connectivity can literally open up the world.


It's not like you don't have control of that. It's not like you can't turn off notifications. It's not like you can't silence it. It's not like you don't have a choice. If you are having problems with that, I think you should just adjust how you use your device. 



PowerShell said:


> There have been studies done saying the instant gratification of phones is short wiring peoples' brains and ultimately causing them to be addictive. Heck, I have a book that I bought that talks about how to leverage this and make addicting products. These products are designed to get you hooked!


But don't you think, that this may not be all bad? Perhaps, maybe in these times our brains need to be this way to work more effectively and more efficiently? Many of those researchers often miss this aspect. Besides addictivity, this "short wiring" may be useful for something else.

BTW even addiction can be useful. After all I almost want to think, that psychologists often incorrectly describe something. Instead of using that word, why not use "people who strongly appreciate something" that sounds much nicer than just calling someone addict. Also it looks like being 'addict' nowadays can bring some benefits. You can gain money and have a good career just from being Youtuber or by being a star on some other app. I'm just saying, that it may help and may not be as negative as we may think.

After all, psychiatrists make only 50% correct diagnoses and psychology is still very immature science, which is semi-bullshit anyway. There are many articles on net about those diagnoses, but I will only link this one:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3068718/

Accuracy is laughable. It may even be better to just ban psychiatry from hospitals altogether, because it looks like you have more chances to fuck up patients than help them and many meds of this field are actually more dangerous on average than in other medical fields. I'm not even talking about negative psychological effects on people, who were misdiagnosed. In short it can be very damaging.




PowerShell said:


> Just like anything else addictive, you find a way to limit the addictive qualities. Turn off notifications on pretty much everything. Limit your app usage or don't install addictive apps like Facebook that keep you scrolling. It's not different than saying you'll only have 3 drinks max at the bar. Most bars will keep serving you well past 3 drinks, but it's probably not a great idea to do that, especially all the time. If you can't resist the urge to have 10 drinks, maybe it's time to not go to the bar at all (like don't get a smartphone, get a dumbphone).


Actually, it's a bad idea to cut it out completely. It's best to reduce addictive substance slowly. Then you should feel the smallest amount of wanting to come back to using it again.


BTW I actually want to upgrade my phone and I looked at all available options. I know, that you are fruit user, but which phone do you think is better, Galaxy A50 or Galaxy A9 (2018). I just can't decide. Also which color looks best to you? Can't decide about that either. They roughly cost the same. FYI my current phone is Galaxy Note 3 Neo, it's 5 years old and still works okay, but I'm running out of space and it's just starting to wear out. I just think, it's best to replace it it before it becomes complete garbage to use.


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## PowerShell (Feb 3, 2013)

The red spirit said:


> Believe me, those drivers existed before due to adjusting radio in car and now due to "smart" shit. It's not only due to phones, but to many different factors and phones are just one of them. Plus, like I said before, those people with weak will power due to smart tech will be just more obvious than before. I really think, that if they decided to get distracted now, they also were prone to that before phone era, but for different reasons. Also, it may not be a bad thing for them to get into accidents... This sounds cruel as hell, but if they are too dumb to realize such a simple stuff, we most likely don't really need them either. It's just how evolution works.


You're right. People have always been distracted by things like the radio. When you really think about it though, how much do you think people were messing with the radio? I don't see them constantly doing this like you see people who won't put their phones down. We're not arguing the fact of people being distracted. We're arguing about the scale and frequency it happens.

I've driven hundreds of thousands of miles literally at times from one US border to another (see my travel blog in my signature). I see tons of distracted driving and have had to call 911 on multiple people that almost hit me and other cars. You can clearly see their phones in their hands and even honking at them they won't put it down. It's a legit thing that's getting worse. Traffic deaths are on the rise: Traffic deaths are on the rise: is distracted driving the reason? | thebaynet.com | TheBayNet.com | Articles





> Any data for that?


https://www.palmbeachpost.com/article/20160112/LIFESTYLE/812052204



> Weak argument, this shit happened much earlier and most likely bullying din't increase, but already existing bullies just have one more tool for that, so... yeah.


Bullying has become 24/7 and it is increasing teen's levels of stress and anxiety to record levels: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/...igh-middle-class-children-worst-affected.html

It used to be you could leave school and that was it. Now it's all the time. There's a big difference over how it used to be.



> I also want to point out, that phones are just a tools to get shit done and maybe have a bit of fun too. They are like stone tools of modern times. In modern times we pretty much need them to survive and I think they are becoming such a necessity like perhaps stone tools, swords, armor once were. They are simply put, just tools.


I agree about it being a tool and practicing self-regulation, but we need to realize the pitfalls of a tool that can lead to bad consequences. A car is a tool, but I can't drive it at any speed I want. I mean my car could easily do 120+mph. That doesn't mean I get to max it out.

Guns are tools, but I can't just buy a fully automatic machine gun to go deer hunting. I can't buy a tank with a bunch of ammo for its gun and drive down the street. With every tool, we recognize there are bad things that can happen and work to curb those bad things. Smartphones are actively designed to be addictive, just like cigarettes. We took aggressive action against cigarettes because we realized it wasn't just people's lack of self will that was fully to blame.



> It's not like you don't have control of that. It's not like you can't turn off notifications. It's not like you can't silence it. It's not like you don't have a choice. If you are having problems with that, I think you should just adjust how you use your device.


That's what I've been saying the whole time and recommending to people. The biggest issue is these devices are by default set to constantly notify you. If you don't know any better, it's easy to get sucked into things and become addicted because that's how they're designed.



> BTW even addiction can be useful. After all I almost want to think, that psychologists often incorrectly describe something. Instead of using that word, why not use "people who strongly appreciate something" that sounds much nicer than just calling someone addict. Also it looks like being 'addict' nowadays can bring some benefits. You can gain money and have a good career just from being Youtuber or by being a star on some other app. I'm just saying, that it may help and may not be as negative as we may think.


Addiction is never beneficial. You can strongly appreciate something without being addicted. Alcoholics strongly appreciate alcohol but that doesn't negate the fact that they're still addicted. Addiction means it's got a hold of you and you can't really control your behavior anymore.



> Actually, it's a bad idea to cut it out completely. It's best to reduce addictive substance slowly. Then you should feel the smallest amount of wanting to come back to using it again.


Sure, this would work. Turning off notifications is a start, like I recommended before. I'm not sure how people should fully handle their phone addictions and some people weaning them away is good enough. Some people are better at going cold turkey. I really don't know what is the best. I just know it's becoming more of a problem.



> BTW I actually want to upgrade my phone and I looked at all available options. I know, that you are fruit user, but which phone do you think is better, Galaxy A50 or Galaxy A9 (2018). I just can't decide. Also which color looks best to you? Can't decide about that either. They roughly cost the same. FYI my current phone is Galaxy Note 3 Neo, it's 5 years old and still works okay, but I'm running out of space and it's just starting to wear out. I just think, it's best to replace it it before it becomes complete garbage to use.


I have the iPhone SE and just got it because it was cheap. I know Samsung is pretty solid and appears to have been good to you if you got 5 years out of it. I don't know much about the specifics, but I'd say a middle to high range phone now should last you a few years if that's your goal. Color is really dependent based on what you like.


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## The red spirit (Sep 29, 2015)

PowerShell said:


> You're right. People have always been distracted by things like the radio. When you really think about it though, how much do you think people were messing with the radio? I don't see them constantly doing this like you see people who won't put their phones down. We're not arguing the fact of people being distracted. We're arguing about the scale and frequency it happens.
> 
> I've driven hundreds of thousands of miles literally at times from one US border to another (see my travel blog in my signature). I see tons of distracted driving and have had to call 911 on multiple people that almost hit me and other cars. You can clearly see their phones in their hands and even honking at them they won't put it down. It's a legit thing that's getting worse. Traffic deaths are on the rise: Traffic deaths are on the rise: is distracted driving the reason? | thebaynet.com | TheBayNet.com | Articles


Can't argue with that. It sucks. But I think, there was some sort of experiment, where people measured distance driven without looking at road and actually car's infotainment was one of the worst offenders. We also could remember where buttons are placed, but nowadays car infotainment is all about screen and sometimes it's a touchscreen. It's a worse design in terms of safety and I think some morons can watch a movie through it. It's definitely rarer than phone, but after some time those things will be more common. 





PowerShell said:


> Bullying has become 24/7 and it is increasing teen's levels of stress and anxiety to record levels: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/...igh-middle-class-children-worst-affected.html
> 
> It used to be you could leave school and that was it. Now it's all the time. There's a big difference over how it used to be.


I guess I'm really out of the loop here. I really went to school, where almost everyone was a thug and if you pissed off wrong people, you may not come home alive. It was a massive shit hole, but I guess I'm happy that I quit that shit early. Still, I don't really see them using phones more than they did back when just for bullying. 




PowerShell said:


> I agree about it being a tool and practicing self-regulation, but we need to realize the pitfalls of a tool that can lead to bad consequences. A car is a tool, but I can't drive it at any speed I want. I mean my car could easily do 120+mph. That doesn't mean I get to max it out.


ok




PowerShell said:


> Guns are tools, but I can't just buy a fully automatic machine gun to go deer hunting. I can't buy a tank with a bunch of ammo for its gun and drive down the street. With every tool, we recognize there are bad things that can happen and work to curb those bad things.


Nope, guns aren't tools. They are weapons and were made for only one purpose, to kill or hurt someone. They bring no benefit to anyone and they ruin humanity. They should be banned everywhere and forgotten forever.



PowerShell said:


> Smartphones are actively designed to be addictive, just like cigarettes. We took aggressive action against cigarettes because we realized it wasn't just people's lack of self will that was fully to blame.


I wouldn't say that phones by themselves are made to be addictive. I can agree, that marketing can be sometimes ridiculous and encourage money wasting, but not phones themselves. Some software can make you addictive, but it's mostly pay 2 win games or some other games with psychological trickery. Planned obsolecence is also a thing, but still, it's quite rare. 




PowerShell said:


> That's what I've been saying the whole time and recommending to people. The biggest issue is these devices are by default set to constantly notify you. If you don't know any better, it's easy to get sucked into things and become addicted because that's how they're designed.


Well, most likely this stuff is in settings, but if person doesn't make any smart decisions well... nothing can be done here. As some say "ignorance is a bliss".




PowerShell said:


> Addiction is never beneficial. You can strongly appreciate something without being addicted. Alcoholics strongly appreciate alcohol but that doesn't negate the fact that they're still addicted. Addiction means it's got a hold of you and you can't really control your behavior anymore.


OK, but in real life it's hard to distinguish that. 




PowerShell said:


> Sure, this would work. Turning off notifications is a start, like I recommended before. I'm not sure how people should fully handle their phone addictions and some people weaning them away is good enough. Some people are better at going cold turkey. I really don't know what is the best. I just know it's becoming more of a problem.


You can just disable certain types of notifications for individual apps. 




PowerShell said:


> I have the iPhone SE and just got it because it was cheap. I know Samsung is pretty solid and appears to have been good to you if you got 5 years out of it. I don't know much about the specifics, but I'd say a middle to high range phone now should last you a few years if that's your goal. Color is really dependent based on what you like.


It lasted me 5 years and it could still last me, but there are some things, that aged or are nearly obsolete:
Notification LED's red color is less bright due to LED aging
The area of screen, where I often scroll shows some signs of visual wear
AMOLED screen has some burn in at the top and at the bottom
From small bumps and etc bezel silver finish is peeling off slowly
It has aging Android version 5.1.1. There aren't any problems with it yet, but it won't take very long for apps to not support it anymore (I expect, that it should be good for 1-2 years, before bad effects kicking in)
It only has 16GB internal storage and 11GB available after OS. I only have around 2GB free. It's okay, but I would like to have a bit more space
Phone has 2GB of RAM, which again mostly isn't a problem, but under heavier use, it's either way too close to the limit or starts using storage for swapping
I don't know the actual condition, but chances are high, that internal storage has some decent wear
Front facing camera is garbage, but I never use it
There are few minor software bugs (Phone freezes and becomes unresponsive, when starting Chrome or YT. Pressing unlock button solves the problem)
In benchmarks this phone has some weak ares, where it scores worse than 99% of all phones
Silicone case I bought for it has yellowed from sun rays and it's kinda stupid to buy a new one at this point

And even with all those flaws, none of them are truly convincing to me. I understand, that this phone isn't relatively good anymore, but none of those flaws are strong enough to make me want to upgrade. Also even phones that cost the same as this one did back in 2014, lack some features, that Note 3 Neo has. For example IR blaster or DLNA. From looking at available phones in the market to me it's clear, that it's hard to find a phone at around 300 Euros, which makes sense. There are some gimmicks or with all of them or pricing is just off. The best phones I can get for around 300 Euros usually have less features than my Note 3 Neo, they naturally have better specs (but that doesn't really matter to me, because I'm satisfied with how my Note performs), they usually have some ugly color mixes (Like iridescent back, which has rainbows all the time, the fuck?), they have some nonsense hardware (motherfucking Bixby button, 4 cameras), many of them have notches yet actual screen to body ratio is very similar to my Note's, screens only increased in resolution, but are still using AMOLED stuff, cameras didn't improve much (My mom bought S9 and I compared cameras, honestly Note 3 Neo's camera was just slightly worse than S9's. S9's camera was a big disappointment for me), software became a little bit nicer or maybe not (Samsungs UI has improved, but some other UIs are still semi unfinished or are garbage), most of them have fingerprint sensors or face unlock features (Note 3 Neo also has crappy face unlock feature, but I don't use it and use my phone without any locking at all). 

All things considered, spending 300 Euros on a new phone will be two steps forward and one step back. At best it will be meh, at worst it can be just straight up money wasting. 

Back when I was upgrading my Galaxy Ace 2 there were lots of serious problems with it and I totally didn't hesitate to replace it, but now I don't have so strong feeling about upgrading. 

And a thing about colors is that I always had white Samsungs or some not dark colored other brand phones. Both A50 and A9 kinda have color choices, but only for half of the phone. I dunno, it looks stupid to me, but maybe in real life it's not that bad. Still, it sucks, that they just didn't change the color of front too. Even S10 has this nonsense, so I guess it's not cost saving measure, but some stupid trend.

And the more I look at available options I realize that I have no idea how many new things I can accept and they won't annoy me (perhaps notches, Bixby buttons, LSD inspired backs, half colored phones...). They all feel like a gamble, instead of no matter how I look at them, just a decent upgrades. Maybe Note 3 Neo is just too good to die yet.


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## PowerShell (Feb 3, 2013)

The red spirit said:


> Can't argue with that. It sucks. But I think, there was some sort of experiment, where people measured distance driven without looking at road and actually car's infotainment was one of the worst offenders. We also could remember where buttons are placed, but nowadays car infotainment is all about screen and sometimes it's a touchscreen. It's a worse design in terms of safety and I think some morons can watch a movie through it. It's definitely rarer than phone, but after some time those things will be more common.


I fully agree on the infotainment systems. They're just as distracting and I put them in the same level as phones. Heck, a lot of them are running Android as a base OS. These things rose with smartphones and are part of the same problem as smartphones. Historically, it was knobs and buttons that you could manipulate by feel and not taking your eyes off the road.




> I guess I'm really out of the loop here. I really went to school, where almost everyone was a thug and if you pissed off wrong people, you may not come home alive. It was a massive shit hole, but I guess I'm happy that I quit that shit early. Still, I don't really see them using phones more than they did back when just for bullying.


How old are you? I'm 30. I grew up in the middle of nowhere and there was still bullying, but because there wasn't instant connectivity it stopped the second you left school.



> Nope, guns aren't tools. They are weapons and were made for only one purpose, to kill or hurt someone. They bring no benefit to anyone and they ruin humanity. They should be banned everywhere and forgotten forever.


When you break it down, guns are tools. They can be used to hunt for food. They can defend you against deadly animal attacks. They can also be used as weapons of war. They do have benefits to society, but also have negatives. The same thing can be argued for almost any tool.



> I wouldn't say that phones by themselves are made to be addictive. I can agree, that marketing can be sometimes ridiculous and encourage money wasting, but not phones themselves. Some software can make you addictive, but it's mostly pay 2 win games or some other games with psychological trickery. Planned obsolecence is also a thing, but still, it's quite rare.


This is the book I bought: https://www.amazon.com/Hooked-How-B...ild+addictive&qid=1554341143&s=gateway&sr=8-1

It's literally how to make apps addictive. There's tons of psychology behind keeping people coming back on their phones. Sure not the phone in its narrow context of a phone might not be addictive (then again didn't people talk on the phone obsessively even with land lines?). It's the apps and other stuff that are designed to be addictive.



> Well, most likely this stuff is in settings, but if person doesn't make any smart decisions well... nothing can be done here. As some say "ignorance is a bliss".


How much do you know about your car? Could you rebuild the transmission or reprogram the module for the transmission? How about you level of networking knowledge? Do you understand how TCP/IP works down to SYN and ACK packets? I'm guessing you're not an expert in many things, but you use the technology. Most people are like that. They want something to work and achieve a goal.




> You can just disable certain types of notifications for individual apps.


Yes. I keep saying that. The problem is it isn't by default.

As far as your phone deciding, I really don't know much about models. I just go for cheaper by meeting my needs for blogging. The iPhone SE works perfectly for me. Other than that, I really don't know much about the specs of other phones.


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## The red spirit (Sep 29, 2015)

PowerShell said:


> I fully agree on the infotainment systems. They're just as distracting and I put them in the same level as phones. Heck, a lot of them are running Android as a base OS. These things rose with smartphones and are part of the same problem as smartphones. Historically, it was knobs and buttons that you could manipulate by feel and not taking your eyes off the road.


I really don't know how manafacturers managed to put them into cars. I mean, there are anal emission testing just to make car legal for production and safety testing is also a thing. That's such a weird paradox.




PowerShell said:


> How old are you? I'm 30. I grew up in the middle of nowhere and there was still bullying, but because there wasn't instant connectivity it stopped the second you left school.


Only 19, but it seems like I don't wanna remember my time in my school. After school I went to gymnasium for 4 years and people there were actually decent and friendly. 




PowerShell said:


> When you break it down, guns are tools. They can be used to hunt for food. They can defend you against deadly animal attacks. They can also be used as weapons of war. They do have benefits to society, but also have negatives. The same thing can be argued for almost any tool.


Nope, guns are much worse than other tools. Your only legit argument is self defence, but beyond that guns are no good. You can kill someone with it, be it human or animal, but in either case people will not appreciate you. It doesn't matter what you kill, but society will think of you as murderer. While killing animal is more acceptable than killing human, it doesn't change a fact, that you needlessly ended someone life and ruined your reputation. Meanwhile tools like phone or pens can actually help you to live and do something good. Killing and hurting others isn't good and by that definition guns are no good things. They are weapons, not tools. They should be banned and forgotten.




PowerShell said:


> This is the book I bought: https://www.amazon.com/Hooked-How-B...ild+addictive&qid=1554341143&s=gateway&sr=8-1
> 
> It's literally how to make apps addictive. There's tons of psychology behind keeping people coming back on their phones. Sure not the phone in its narrow context of a phone might not be addictive (then again didn't people talk on the phone obsessively even with land lines?). It's the apps and other stuff that are designed to be addictive.


I don't know anything about that book, but I wonder if it doesn't try sometimes too hard to convince reader, that apps are made to be addictive. Also what kind of percentage of apps do you think qualifies as being addictive?




PowerShell said:


> How much do you know about your car? Could you rebuild the transmission or reprogram the module for the transmission? How about you level of networking knowledge? Do you understand how TCP/IP works down to SYN and ACK packets? I'm guessing you're not an expert in many things, but you use the technology. Most people are like that. They want something to work and achieve a goal.


I know enough about car internals, that I understand what they do and what most parts do, but I have no real working experience with cars, so yeah. Still, if I spent my time, I could engineer something like car or maybe a cart, using car parts. 

Depends on transmission and reprogramming module most likely requires scan tool or some other proprietary programming tool. Most likely it's not me doing actually programming, but just launching someone's program to run. 

Nope, I have no idea what TCP/IP stuff is, besides, that it's about internet. 

You have a point, but didn't you say that you actually said that to them? And phone settings are much more simple than let's say car internals. They were made for people to use, meanwhile assembling car requires you to have a degree and decent qualification beforehand. 




PowerShell said:


> Yes. I keep saying that. The problem is it isn't by default.


It's not a problem at all, because notifications are often truly useful and pretty much needed.



PowerShell said:


> As far as your phone deciding, I really don't know much about models. I just go for cheaper by meeting my needs for blogging. The iPhone SE works perfectly for me. Other than that, I really don't know much about the specs of other phones.


OK then.


----------



## PowerShell (Feb 3, 2013)

The red spirit said:


> I really don't know how manafacturers managed to put them into cars. I mean, there are anal emission testing just to make car legal for production and safety testing is also a thing. That's such a weird paradox.


Emissions laws and safety laws are 2 different things. It took nearly half a century of car making to get either of the laws. These infotainment systems have hit critical mass in the last 5-10 years. Eventually it'll catch up.



> Only 19, but it seems like I don't wanna remember my time in my school. After school I went to gymnasium for 4 years and people there were actually decent and friendly.


The high school you went to and the high school I went to were 2 different things. I didn't have a cell phone until I turned 18 and it was about 3 months before I graduated high school. I got Facebook the week before I graduated high school. I effectively did my high school career without a cell phone or social media. Heck I only had dial up until midway through my senior year when DSL became available. There just wasn't the technology adaptation there is now to allow cyberbullying. Kids do truly have it harder now compared to when I was in school.



> Nope, guns are much worse than other tools. Your only legit argument is self defence, but beyond that guns are no good. You can kill someone with it, be it human or animal, but in either case people will not appreciate you. It doesn't matter what you kill, but society will think of you as murderer. While killing animal is more acceptable than killing human, it doesn't change a fact, that you needlessly ended someone life and ruined your reputation. Meanwhile tools like phone or pens can actually help you to live and do something good. Killing and hurting others isn't good and by that definition guns are no good things. They are weapons, not tools. They should be banned and forgotten.


A weapon is a tool. At its most basic form a tool is something to extend human capability. The computer you are in is a tool. The fact that we don't have to talk face to face is extending human capability. Guns extend human capability because they do allow to kill other than using bare hands. Guns can be used to get food through hunting or for self defense. Those are 2 good things from the tool. Guns can also be used to kill innocent people. That's a bad thing from the tool. You have to find a balance between a good use of a tool and a bad use and regulate accordingly.



> I don't know anything about that book, but I wonder if it doesn't try sometimes too hard to convince reader, that apps are made to be addictive. Also what kind of percentage of apps do you think qualifies as being addictive?


I don't know the percent of apps that are addictive. I just know most major companies like Facebook literally hire psychologists to figure out ways to keep you scrolling. The more you scroll the more ads they can serve and ultimately more money they make.



> I know enough about car internals, that I understand what they do and what most parts do, but I have no real working experience with cars, so yeah. Still, if I spent my time, I could engineer something like car or maybe a cart, using car parts.
> 
> Depends on transmission and reprogramming module most likely requires scan tool or some other proprietary programming tool. Most likely it's not me doing actually programming, but just launching someone's program to run.
> 
> ...


You say that, but they aren't. I know guys who can take a car apart blindfolded, yet have issues with a smartphone settings. My point is everything is so complex that you can't be an expert in everything. You can't look down on people who don't know everything about smartphones or even know how addictive they are.



> It's not a problem at all, because notifications are often truly useful and pretty much needed.


I have a travel blog. If I got a notification every time something was liked, my phone would be going off like crazy. How is my phone going off all the time useful? How do I know when something truly demands I break my attention and I address it versus it being a nice to know that I can look at later? That's why I only have phone calls and text messages for my alerts. Those actually demand my immediate attention (especially phone calls).


----------



## Handsome Dyke (Oct 4, 2012)

PowerShell said:


> https://www.palmbeachpost.com/article/20160112/LIFESTYLE/812052204


 That article provided no evidence that hookup apps are responsible for the increase in STD rates.


> Bullying has become 24/7 and it is increasing teen's levels of stress and anxiety to record levels:


 only if they are online 24/7.


----------



## The red spirit (Sep 29, 2015)

PowerShell said:


> Emissions laws and safety laws are 2 different things. It took nearly half a century of car making to get either of the laws. These infotainment systems have hit critical mass in the last 5-10 years. Eventually it'll catch up.


I really hope it will happen, because current state of infotainment while interesting, I think it should be regulated more.




PowerShell said:


> The high school you went to and the high school I went to were 2 different things. I didn't have a cell phone until I turned 18 and it was about 3 months before I graduated high school. I got Facebook the week before I graduated high school. I effectively did my high school career without a cell phone or social media. Heck I only had dial up until midway through my senior year when DSL became available. There just wasn't the technology adaptation there is now to allow cyberbullying. Kids do truly have it harder now compared to when I was in school.


Yeah, but in my times we already had phones, just that no one really bothered to extend bullying to cyberbullying. I guess it's easier to just mess with someone irl than to be bothered to do that on net.




PowerShell said:


> A weapon is a tool. At its most basic form a tool is something to extend human capability. The computer you are in is a tool. The fact that we don't have to talk face to face is extending human capability. Guns extend human capability because they do allow to kill other than using bare hands. Guns can be used to get food through hunting or for self defense. Those are 2 good things from the tool. Guns can also be used to kill innocent people. That's a bad thing from the tool. You have to find a balance between a good use of a tool and a bad use and regulate accordingly.


I lived my whole life and I never needed a gun. It's a fake news, that guns are needed for something. 

BTW I would advise you to end this discussion about guns here as it is, because I think you and me can extend it to be much longer than it has to be and in the end we will not agree with each other. At least I know, that they are pretty much evil things with no purpose in peaceful society. For self defense we can have tazer or pepper spray, there's no need to kill someone and leave long term wounds. Even with criminals we should remain humane.

I don't know if you knew that, but meat industry is as corrupt as oil industry. I'm studying Environmental Sciences and I learned that recently. I totally didn't knew that. It also appears that it's one of the least ethically acceptable industries too. I also had to see dissections in biology lab and I remain strong with my attitude, that I shall not ever see that stuff again. It looks cruel in real life and many people who advocate guns for hunting probably never actually killed a living being. They will most likely procrastinate and the reason for that is that we are living in peaceful times and we simply weren't taught to kill or hurt others. 

I also have been learning daido juku karate (kudo) and I most likely couldn't defend myself well if I had to, but this branch of karate was invented due to the need to avoid injuries and pretty much never to be used to harm others. The idea of this martial art is to educate your spirit and learn to make better decisions in your life. Obviously using violence in your life isn't a good decision, it's simply a sign of uneducated civil or a civil with poor self-control. While my sensei wasn't pushing us to learn that and mostly focused on physical improvements, I quickly learned those truths by having some friendly people. You simply can't hold bad feelings about them and be brutal.

Making guns easily available is just needless provocation and law makers should know better than that, that guns have no purpose in peaceful society. 




PowerShell said:


> I don't know the percent of apps that are addictive. I just know most major companies like Facebook literally hire psychologists to figure out ways to keep you scrolling. The more you scroll the more ads they can serve and ultimately more money they make.


Like anyone actually watches ads... we just skip them or use adblock. I gotta admit, that I sometimes browse FB longer than expected, but it never grew into addiction or seriously long sessions. It had zero effect on my life. Maybe I'm different from others in this aspect, but I think that book's authors may be trying too hard to convince us that certain things are addictive. I mean, good software is a pleasure to use and it simply doesn't need any trickery to make it addicting. 

BTW what tricks about Facebook were pointed out?




PowerShell said:


> You say that, but they aren't. I know guys who can take a car apart blindfolded, yet have issues with a smartphone settings. My point is everything is so complex that you can't be an expert in everything. You can't look down on people who don't know everything about smartphones or even know how addictive they are.


Look, one doesn't have to look down on someone, if the same person is skilled at something and it's possible to be experienced in many things if you want that. Just that not everyone does that.




PowerShell said:


> I have a travel blog. If I got a notification every time something was liked, my phone would be going off like crazy. How is my phone going off all the time useful? How do I know when something truly demands I break my attention and I address it versus it being a nice to know that I can look at later? That's why I only have phone calls and text messages for my alerts. Those actually demand my immediate attention (especially phone calls).


Well, not everyone has a travel blog. Most people just use phones for content viewing or consumption, but not for content creation. In FB you can unsubscribe from stuff and just remove those notifications altogether to that single app. At least in Android you can do that. I don't use Apple, so I don't know what options fruit users have.


----------



## PowerShell (Feb 3, 2013)

Nicomendes Saiyedros said:


> That article provided no evidence that hookup apps are responsible for the increase in STD rates.


It proved it was one of several factors. The apps have made it much easier to meet strangers for sex. Couple that with the laxed attitudes on condoms and it's a horrible combination.



> only if they are online 24/7.


If you have your phone near you and it's constantly making a bunch of noise, you're online 24/7. It's demanding your attention 24/7.



The red spirit said:


> I really hope it will happen, because current state of infotainment while interesting, I think it should be regulated more.


Absolutely! I had to rent a car with the stupid infotainment system and it pissed me off that I couldn't even adjust the temperature without touching the screen. It's very distracting. I prefer knobs that I can feel for and never take my eyes off the road.



> Yeah, but in my times we already had phones, just that no one really bothered to extend bullying to cyberbullying. I guess it's easier to just mess with someone irl than to be bothered to do that on net.


But it seems like people are starting to do that and it's getting worse.



> I lived my whole life and I never needed a gun. It's a fake news, that guns are needed for something.


Hunting is a legit thing. I've hunted. Ironically, I'm eating a piece of venison sausage right now. Many people do it for survival.



> BTW I would advise you to end this discussion about guns here as it is, because I think you and me can extend it to be much longer than it has to be and in the end we will not agree with each other. At least I know, that they are pretty much evil things with no purpose in peaceful society. For self defense we can have tazer or pepper spray, there's no need to kill someone and leave long term wounds. Even with criminals we should remain humane.


You can end it as well...



> I don't know if you knew that, but meat industry is as corrupt as oil industry. I'm studying Environmental Sciences and I learned that recently. I totally didn't knew that. It also appears that it's one of the least ethically acceptable industries too. I also had to see dissections in biology lab and I remain strong with my attitude, that I shall not ever see that stuff again. It looks cruel in real life and many people who advocate guns for hunting probably never actually killed a living being. They will most likely procrastinate and the reason for that is that we are living in peaceful times and we simply weren't taught to kill or hurt others.


I agree and the massive mass feeding lots I've seen in the Pandhandle of Texas make me sick. I think animals should be treated humanely. Actually hunting the goal is "one shot, one kill" and make sure the animal doesn't suffer. It's lived its life in its natural habitat and if you kill the animal and don't waste anything, that's the most humane way to eat meat.



> I also have been learning daido juku karate (kudo) and I most likely couldn't defend myself well if I had to, but this branch of karate was invented due to the need to avoid injuries and pretty much never to be used to harm others. The idea of this martial art is to educate your spirit and learn to make better decisions in your life. Obviously using violence in your life isn't a good decision, it's simply a sign of uneducated civil or a civil with poor self-control. While my sensei wasn't pushing us to learn that and mostly focused on physical improvements, I quickly learned those truths by having some friendly people. You simply can't hold bad feelings about them and be brutal.
> 
> Making guns easily available is just needless provocation and law makers should know better than that, that guns have no purpose in peaceful society.


You say that, but criminals have guns. I'm not saying it should be a free for all like some people think. I do believe in regulation, but I don't believe outright banning is going to solve the problem.



> BTW what tricks about Facebook were pointed out?


Here's a good article on how they use science to make apps addictive: https://www.1843magazine.com/features/the-scientists-who-make-apps-addictive




> Well, not everyone has a travel blog. Most people just use phones for content viewing or consumption, but not for content creation. In FB you can unsubscribe from stuff and just remove those notifications altogether to that single app. At least in Android you can do that. I don't use Apple, so I don't know what options fruit users have.


Are you reading what I'm posting? I have been saying this over and over. The main issue is many people don't know how to do this. Many people don't even realize it's a problem. It's like a person becoming an alcoholic thinking 4-5 drinks a night is fine. It's probably not severely impacting their life and they may see it as normal, but there's a real problem there. They're on the way to worse issues coming up if they continue down that path.


----------



## Handsome Dyke (Oct 4, 2012)

PowerShell said:


> It proved it was one of several factors. The apps have made it much easier to meet strangers for sex.


 The article merely *stated* that dating apps are a factor; it did not *prove* that they are a factor. Dating apps making sexual access easier doesn't prove that dating apps lead to increased STD rates.


> If you have your phone near you and it's constantly making a bunch of noise, you're online 24/7. It's demanding your attention 24/7.


 This has nothing to do with what I said. I meant that online bullying isn't happening to someone "24/7" unless that person is online 24/7.


----------



## The red spirit (Sep 29, 2015)

PowerShell said:


> But it seems like people are starting to do that and it's getting worse.


I wouldn't necessarily agree with that.




PowerShell said:


> Hunting is a legit thing. I've hunted. Ironically, I'm eating a piece of venison sausage right now. Many people do it for survival.


meh



PowerShell said:


> You say that, but criminals have guns. I'm not saying it should be a free for all like some people think. I do believe in regulation, but I don't believe outright banning is going to solve the problem.


Why not ban it completely? It's not like it's needed thing at all.

BTW look at countries, where you can't get a gun easily. In Japan you can't get gun and you technically can't have swords, there is no gun related crime at all. In Lithuania I never heard of gun crime either and many countries don't suffer from gun crime, if they aren't easily accessible. Meanwhile in USA there are school shootings, some Nibbas shooting others, cops shooting people and lots of BS. In Africa and Middle East people are pretty much having civil wars. It just proves, that guns shouldn't be accessible. 




PowerShell said:


> Here's a good article on how they use science to make apps addictive: https://www.1843magazine.com/features/the-scientists-who-make-apps-addictive


It doesn't work in Europe tho




PowerShell said:


> Are you reading what I'm posting? I have been saying this over and over. The main issue is many people don't know how to do this. Many people don't even realize it's a problem. It's like a person becoming an alcoholic thinking 4-5 drinks a night is fine. It's probably not severely impacting their life and they may see it as normal, but there's a real problem there. They're on the way to worse issues coming up if they continue down that path.


And do you offer any real solutions to that? Do you even draw a line between normal and not. Perhaps how would you define a normal usage of phone or internet? I would guess that it would just be too personal and wouldn't apply well to masses. While you turn off notifications for yourself, it may not work out for your friend.


----------



## PowerShell (Feb 3, 2013)

Nicomendes Saiyedros said:


> The article merely *stated* that dating apps are a factor; it did not *prove* that they are a factor. Dating apps making sexual access easier doesn't prove that dating apps lead to increased STD rates. This has nothing to do with what I said.


Increased access leads to increased risked. It's the same thing for the amount of miles driven. The more you drive, the more you're at risk for a car accident. That's what this article is inferring and what I am also inferring. They listed the other factors such as laxed attitudes towards condoms. Those 2 things will lead to higher STD's. If not, disprove what I am inferring from the data they are seeing.



> I meant that online bullying isn't happening to someone "24/7" unless that person is online 24/7.


And I'm saying that if a person doesn't have notifications turned off or doesn't explicitly block the bullies, it can happen 24/7. Anytime someone sends a message and a notification goes off, that person gets it. They might not be actively online, but they are passively online.



The red spirit said:


> I wouldn't necessarily agree with that.


Then how do you explain increased levels of anxiety and depression?




> Why not ban it completely? It's not like it's needed thing at all.
> 
> BTW look at countries, where you can't get a gun easily. In Japan you can't get gun and you technically can't have swords, there is no gun related crime at all. In Lithuania I never heard of gun crime either and many countries don't suffer from gun crime, if they aren't easily accessible. Meanwhile in USA there are school shootings, some Nibbas shooting others, cops shooting people and lots of BS. In Africa and Middle East people are pretty much having civil wars. It just proves, that guns shouldn't be accessible.


Why not ban smartphones completely? I mean there are some people who text and drive and kill people. Your all or nothing argument doesn't work because we could theoretically ban anything due to negative effects. How do you think the venison summer sausage I ate for lunch was made? A deer was shot and killed during hunting season. That provided me food. Providing basic sustenance is something good.



> It doesn't work in Europe tho


Europe regulates the heck out of tech. Look at most of the anti-trust and other legal actions taken and it's by the European Union and not the US.



> And do you offer any real solutions to that? Do you even draw a line between normal and not. Perhaps how would you define a normal usage of phone or internet? I would guess that it would just be too personal and wouldn't apply well to masses. While you turn off notifications for yourself, it may not work out for your friend.


Real solutions are warning people about the addictive qualities and bad things that can happen. We do it with cigarettes and alcohol. We also regulate how where and how they are used and who can use them (not minors). The same thing can be applied to phones and apps. The EU has gone a long way with opt-in and consent measures for privacy. They require websites to warn people of cookies and tracking. There's a lot that can be done to curb this behavior and hold companies accountable.


----------



## The red spirit (Sep 29, 2015)

PowerShell said:


> Then how do you explain increased levels of anxiety and depression?


Any stats, research, anything?

It can be due to a lot of factors. For example faster and more stressful pace of life in huge cities. 




PowerShell said:


> Why not ban smartphones completely? I mean there are some people who text and drive and kill people. Your all or nothing argument doesn't work because we could theoretically ban anything due to negative effects. How do you think the venison summer sausage I ate for lunch was made? A deer was shot and killed during hunting season. That provided me food. Providing basic sustenance is something good.


And the question is, why do you need a gun. Let's say your deer was grown in farm or something and slaughtered there. It's unethical and all, but just that slip once. Why anyone would need a gun, except super unrealistic or super rare scenarios. To me having gun doesn't make sense at all, but maybe because I grew up in society, that don't have those. Just try to imagine, that no one cares about guns and no one has them, just try. Believe me, it works out well. 




PowerShell said:


> Europe regulates the heck out of tech. Look at most of the anti-trust and other legal actions taken and it's by the European Union and not the US.


And? Will you show some data or not? You are derailing the thread.




PowerShell said:


> Real solutions are warning people about the addictive qualities and bad things that can happen. We do it with cigarettes and alcohol. We also regulate how where and how they are used and who can use them (not minors). The same thing can be applied to phones and apps. The EU has gone a long way with opt-in and consent measures for privacy. They require websites to warn people of cookies and tracking. There's a lot that can be done to curb this behavior and hold companies accountable.


EU's privacy bullshit only meant pop ups at almost every frigging website ever. It's almost as bad as spam at this point. That just made internet even worse trash can of information. And let's be real, without any intrusion to human rights, there's almost nothing could be done about notifications and that's for good. People just need to have self control, that's it. You are overreacting about negative effects.


----------



## aiyanah (Oct 25, 2018)

PowerShell said:


> That does seem like everyone though. The vibe has changed. I could care less what people do. I actively look to limit notifications and my time online. I've pretty much cut the news out of my life and limit Facebook scrolling. The only thing I hate is when people and their smartphones become safety hazards like the person weaving all over the road because they are on their phone.


the vibe has changed because the medium for communication has changed.
we have forgone ease of communication with strangers (voice), for easy access to information (smart phone) and slower but promised communication with acquaintances (text apps).
the people haven't changed though, they're just glad they can opt in to anonymity while out in public as our numbers grow...well not really but one does basically get to switch off the natural world, just holding a phone in front of you (even with the screen off) communicates one is shielded, no one will approach you, helps with the crippling social anxiety that develops in the collective as the faces they see from day to day are rarely if ever the same, save for a handful out of hundreds or thousands.

but it honestly falls away quick enough if you just say hi to someone and attempt conversation, so the "vibe" to me at least seems to just be a new layer of social contraceptive.
is that a good or bad thing? depends on circumstances i guess.


----------



## Ttalkkugjil (Feb 1, 2017)

theshowgoeson said:


> The same way the vibes are relaxed Friday through Sunday. It’s a real thing right? I swear the atmosphere used to be much better when people weren’t on these so much


The mass use of smart phones has improved life for people. No matter where they are, they can order pizza.


----------



## PowerShell (Feb 3, 2013)

The red spirit said:


> Any stats, research, anything?
> 
> It can be due to a lot of factors. For example faster and more stressful pace of life in huge cities.


This both reinforces the points of stress and addictiveness: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/smartphones-cause-stress_n_1202924

“Both slot machines and email follow something called a ‘variable interval reinforcement schedule,’ which has been established as the way to train in the strongest habits,” Stafford told the _Guardian_ in 2008. “This means that rather than reward an action every time it is performed, you reward it sometimes, but not in a predictable way. So with email, usually when I check it there is nothing interesting, but every so often there’s something wonderful – an invite out, or maybe some juicy gossip - and I get a reward.”




> And? Will you show some data or not? You are derailing the thread.


Have you not paid attention to the news at all? Have you not heard of GDPR or at least seen the popups that now come up on many websites. Europe is at the forefront of privacy and regulating IT. Here's an explanation of GDPR: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regulation

Google was fined $1.7 billion for anti-trust violations: https://www.businessinsider.com/goo...eaking-eu-antitrust-rules-over-adsense-2019-3




> EU's privacy bullshit only meant pop ups at almost every frigging website ever. It's almost as bad as spam at this point. That just made internet even worse trash can of information. And let's be real, without any intrusion to human rights, there's almost nothing could be done about notifications and that's for good. People just need to have self control, that's it. You are overreacting about negative effects.


You know what you remind me of me a bit at 19. Everything is personal responsibility and blame lies solely on each individual person. I understand this viewpoint and it's easy to get wrapped up in it. It's an easy way to say society's problems rest on individual people, but it's more complex than that. There's systemic issues that aren't the result of individual people. There's a bigger picture out there and I hope as you continue to live life, you see more of that.


----------



## PowerShell (Feb 3, 2013)

aiyanah said:


> the vibe has changed because the medium for communication has changed.
> we have forgone ease of communication with strangers (voice), for easy access to information (smart phone) and slower but promised communication with acquaintances (text apps).
> the people haven't changed though, they're just glad they can opt in to anonymity while out in public as our numbers grow...well not really but one does basically get to switch off the natural world, just holding a phone in front of you (even with the screen off) communicates one is shielded, no one will approach you, helps with the crippling social anxiety that develops in the collective as the faces they see from day to day are rarely if ever the same, save for a handful out of hundreds or thousands.
> 
> ...


I agree. I think the speeding up of life due to smartphones has unleashed more complexities in society. It also seems to short circuit people's brains. There isn't as much deep thought and contemplation. It's all just sound bites and tweets.

In many ways people have always found ways to distract themselves. You see old pictures of people on public transit reading papers or books. Phones just substitute that. It's definitely a complex issue and there is definitely good and bad coming from smartphones. I do think they take things to the next level so we'll see what the long term effects are.


----------



## The red spirit (Sep 29, 2015)

PowerShell said:


> This both reinforces the points of stress and addictiveness: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/smartphones-cause-stress_n_1202924


It only says it can, but not necessarily it does. That leaves us without enough data.




PowerShell said:


> “Both slot machines and email follow something called a ‘variable interval reinforcement schedule,’ which has been established as the way to train in the strongest habits,” Stafford told the _Guardian_ in 2008. “This means that rather than reward an action every time it is performed, you reward it sometimes, but not in a predictable way. So with email, usually when I check it there is nothing interesting, but every so often there’s something wonderful – an invite out, or maybe some juicy gossip - and I get a reward.”


Emails?! Seriously? No one checks them to the point of addiction. It's probably the most boring thing to do on internet. As fun as watching paint dry.




PowerShell said:


> Have you not paid attention to the news at all?


I don't watch or read them at all. I only am mildy interested in tech news (mostly hardware) and that's it. I couldn't be bothered to watch TV or read those shit news websites. It's a good thing, I avoid information pollution this way. To be honest 98% of news don't even matter to us



PowerShell said:


> Have you not heard of GDPR or at least seen the popups that now come up on many websites.


Nope.



PowerShell said:


> Europe is at the forefront of privacy and regulating IT. Here's an explanation of GDPR: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regulation



So many buzzwords I never heard of. In short EU is somewhat stricter than others private data management to make us safer. And they perhaps should be doing something, but while I look at my country's websites they are total wild west. Probably no one gives a crap about them, when we have more Earthy problems. 

BTW if you wanna talk about laws and shit, I quit.



PowerShell said:


> You know what you remind me of me a bit at 19. Everything is personal responsibility and blame lies solely on each individual person. I understand this viewpoint and it's easy to get wrapped up in it. It's an easy way to say society's problems rest on individual people, but it's more complex than that. There's systemic issues that aren't the result of individual people. There's a bigger picture out there and I hope as you continue to live life, you see more of that.


I learned that in Social Welfare course I had, but it's not everything. Many people don't have proper self-control and that's true. Many people are ignorant and that's true. Many people don't want to adjust to others and that's true. meh 

Can I ask you one question? Why are you trying so hard at pushing your views on others? As far as I remember this thread was about personal opinion and what we think, but not exactly about education and then later about legalese and morality. It should have been obvious, that I'm not interested in that or I think that there aren't problems at all (at least not as big as you think there may be).


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## The red spirit (Sep 29, 2015)

Ttalkkugjil said:


> The mass use of smart phones has improved life for people. No matter where they are, they can order pizza.


And most importantly they can watch cute cat videos too :kitteh:


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