# Myers Briggs Types and Fate (SJs, SPs, NFs, NTs)



## Mammon (Jul 12, 2012)

'The universe is plotting against me again' Want me fcking knee and floor handed begging for mercy?! FCKING MAKE ME!! MUHAHAHAHAHAHHHA. GIVE ME MORE, COME RIGHT AT ME, I FCKING DARE YOU!!!! I WILL SNAP YOU TO PIECES!!! HAHAHAHAHAH

I have an inclination to think that 'the shit that happens' are results of past wrongdoings. This I cannot help because I see it everywhere in my life, I see everything in relation to eachother reflected right back at me. 'Primal' as may be this is my approach to life, I either sit and be passive, avoiding it elegantly or take it rage filled bullseye head on.

I chase my monsters in nightmares, fight my bullies, oppose forces deeming themselfs 'above me', eat my demons,... I counter phobic shit like mad and enjoy its fiery intensity while at it :3
There's no feeling beter than staring your fears right in the eyes, taunting it, spitting on it, provoking it, and ripping it to pieces.

I'm an 'SJ' btw and I geuss it was meant to be


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## KittenPotPie (Mar 3, 2013)

drummaster350 said:


> I liked the rest of what you had to say, but specifically as an NT do you find yourself having regrets?


Yep. There's a difference though between having regrets, and dwelling on having regrets and letting them take over. I know a lot of NT's, lots of them regret if they had a negative role in past situations, but, they don't always go into a tizzy over it, unless it's something major maybe involving someone else and they really have some apologizing to do. Otherwise, what does that solve if you do? Some might interpret that as not regretting, but it's more like "What does freaking out solve? Yeah, it sucks, but I'll do better next time." And then you try to figure out what went wrong and learn from it so you can progress as a person. So in that sense, yes, those things happened and there's nothing you can do about it because past events are in the past. But for most I don't think that means no regret, it means not dwelling.


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## drummaster350 (Feb 27, 2013)

KittenPotPie said:


> But for most I don't think that means no regret, it means not dwelling.


NT's don't dwell on regrets. I'd say that's a fair statement.


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## Brandon Boykin (Sep 1, 2011)

I believe in the power of choice which causes me to fret a lot because I always feel as though I choose/make the wrong decisions. I do think NFs are credulous about the future, at least for me that rings true. I always believe in the possibility that tomorrow will be better, that I'll find my place in the future. But I don't really believe in fate or destiny. I like the idea of maybe reading "the signs," but here lately, I've been reading signs, and they just don't add up, so I feel that's slowly getting squashed out of my belief system.

For instance, I've been interested in someone and wasn't sure if I should approach them with my feelings. I recently added a bat character to a story I'm working on, and on the way home from hanging out with said individual, what flies along next to my car? A bat. I looked up bat symbolism which explained that bats symbolism initiation, intuition and communication. I took that as a sign to tell the individual how I felt. I did, and I was put in the friend zone, and even further, the individual doesn't really talk to me anymore.

So I felt like that sign didn't pan out well. But now that I think about it, just because it didn't pan out the way I had wanted it to, doesn't mean the sign was invalid. On the other hand, it could have been a sign for me to move beyond this person because it wasn't meant to be. I don't know. That makes it sound like I believe in fate.

Why are we INFPs conundrums?


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## DaRick (Jan 24, 2013)

Honestly, the SJ/SP/NF/NT categorisations are too broad to describe the philosophy of each type within those categories regarding fate, future and freewill. For instance, INFP's and INFJ's may share 3 out of 4 preferences, but they don't really have the same thought processes (given that they don't share any of the cognitive functions), so I doubt their philosophies regarding these things would be the same.


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## Dommm (Oct 23, 2012)

DaRick said:


> Honestly, the SJ/SP/NF/NT categorisations are too broad to describe the philosophy of each type within those categories regarding fate, future and freewill. For instance, INFP's and INFJ's may share 3 out of 4 preferences, but they don't really have the same thought processes (given that they don't share any of the cognitive functions), so I doubt their philosophies regarding these things would be the same.


Well they it does do a good job at capturing the overarching similarities. I.E

NF: Social Progress, Cultural Progression; Extremes: Postmodernism, Cultural-Marxism, Idealism
NT: Progressive thought; Extremes: Intellectualism, Alienation, Rationalism
SJ: Tradition, Value, Structure; Extremes: Conservatism
SP: Societal backbone; Extremes: Pragmatism

edit: cleared it up a little


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## drummaster350 (Feb 27, 2013)

Dommm said:


> Well they it does do a good job at capturing the overarching similarities. I.E
> 
> NF: Cultural/Societal Progression; Extremes: Postmodernism/Cultural-Marxism
> NT: Progressive thought; Extremes: Intellectualism
> ...


That's a very interesting list there :happy:. It's fascinating but I'm not sure I'd put NF and NT's that way, but I see where you're coming from.


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## Orphan81 (Mar 10, 2013)

The majority of us NT's don't believe in concepts of Fate. What we believe in are consequences to decisions made.

When an event happened.. an NT will point out it happened because A, B, and C took place. If we wish to stop a bad event from happening again in the future.. Then we damn well better make sure, A,B,and C don't happen again.. Otherwise we have no one to blame but ourselves.

The downside to this viewpoint is, many of us NT's are unwilling to accept that sometimes... Bad Luck just happens.. Sometimes despite your best efforts and contingencies, Chaos destroys order.. however we internalize this and blame ourselves, and consider if there was only something we could do differently, it wouldn't have happened.


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## zerocrossing (Jul 6, 2011)

Orphan81 said:


> The majority of us NT's don't believe in concepts of Fate. What we believe in are consequences to decisions made.
> 
> When an event happened.. an NT will point out it happened because A, B, and C took place. If we wish to stop a bad event from happening again in the future.. Then we damn well better make sure, A,B,and C don't happen again.. Otherwise we have no one to blame but ourselves.
> 
> The downside to this viewpoint is, many of us NT's are unwilling to accept that sometimes... Bad Luck just happens.. Sometimes despite your best efforts and contingencies, Chaos destroys order.. however we internalize this and blame ourselves, and consider if there was only something we could do differently, it wouldn't have happened.


This is why I said earlier that a lot of descriptions of "NT"s are skewed toward Te-users. 

Yes, I agree that Intuitive Thinkers generally believe in consequences to decisions, and I agree that we are generally good at spotting the cause-and-effect chain leading to negative consequences. BUT Ti-using "NT"s and Te-using "NT"s will respond quite differently. 

Ti-users (i.e., the xNTPs) don't really care that much about contingencies or about organizing reality. That's what Te-users (the xNTJs) do. Ti-users will look for internal inconsistencies leading to the breakdown - i.e., flaws in the design (whether the design is a mechanical, technical, or human, system). If we need to provide a solution, we (okay, _E_NTPs) will generally improvise a solution on the fly.

Te-users will organize the work (based on what most likely originated as Ti-generated design specs) and will provide the contingency plans and the follow-through intended to prevent having things go wrong after implementation. 

Te-users are more interested in controlling reality than Ti-users are. Ti-users are happy if the design is logical. Ti-users with Ne-dom are often happiest when forced to improvise a solution. I don't think a Te-user would ever say that.


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## nothingbutfoma (Jan 30, 2013)

drummaster350 said:


> I've spent a lot of time recently giving a lot of thought to the concept of fate, future, and freewill. It's interesting to see how the broad categories of type in Myers Briggs correlates to a basic philosophy in regards to the past, present, and future. I know I'm generalizing but here's the basic stance that I think each broad category takes in regard to these questions. SJ's will often say when an event takes place that "It's meant to be", SP's that "shit happens", NF's "it didn't necessarily have to be this way", NT's "It happened and I don't regret anything on my part" (I'm stretching with that one but the NT view on such matters eludes me). Incidentally, as an iNFj I find the "It's meant to be" view a rather disturbing concept if it's applied to everything. Any thoughts?
> 
> Here's psychologist David Markley. I could only find quotes for two types.
> 
> ...


Interesting. As an SJ, I'd agree, at least don't disagree, with how the present is viewed, only because I can't think of any better description at this point. However, I can be highly optimistic about the future, depending on how I feel about the events in the present time. If I feel stuck in a bad position, I can be pessimistic. 

As for the past, I often find myself going with "It is/isn't/was/wasn't meant to be." But I think it's because I see the past as a static state that can't be changed, so the phrase allows me to accept it as is and leave it be. The past is entirely out of my hands, so why think I can do anything to make it different. My preferred time and place is the future. I constantly feel as if I'm waiting for something to happen/come along. I have to actively remind myself to enjoy my life in the present.

The concept of fate, future, and freewill is interesting. I see the future as a nebulous state that is in a constant state of change dependent upon the present. But whether that happens through fate or freewill, I don't know. Maybe freewill builds fate. There is no predetermined path, but it's more that you build your own path, which becomes your fate. Essentially, fate is a coalescence of your freewill through life.


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## zynthaxx (Aug 12, 2009)

drummaster350 said:


> NT's don't dwell on regrets. I'd say that's a fair statement.


The problem here is that you're making a blanket statement of a too large group.
For example, this statement fits me perfectly - but then I'm not an NT but an SP. But I know both INTJs and INTPs who definitely like to dwell on regrets ("like" as in I don't see any other reason for doing it if it doesn't give you some sense of satisfaction). But yes, I can agree that a healthily developed NT type "shouldn't" dwell on regrets; they should see possibilities rather than be projecting doom and gloom on the future.


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## ENTPreneur (Dec 13, 2009)

My ENTP (or personal) view on Fate is that IF things are predetermined -but we cant be certain of it - then why not do your best to fight for where you want to go? To believe that things are predetermined -and they might be whether you believe in a deity or not - will make you passive and fatalistic: Why bother trying? Well, I find the TRYING what defines us and gives our lives meaning. If things are predetermined, well, then it was predetermined that I should try to better my fate. Thus, it is a No-question: Any other answer than "try as hard as you to can live your life as you desire" will be destructive, so why bother asking yourself this? After concluding this, I only return to this questions when new information/input challenges or require possible re-think of my model. This is typical for how I function normally, in every aspect. So I do not linger on the past too much, instead I focus on the future.

Past cannot be changed but you can learn from it. I read about the Te-Ni planning to avoid future problems and Ne-Ti to just adapt and solve on the fly: This is very correct. LEARNING from the past is what connects these NTs... not much else. Also someone wrote that Ne-doms did not have fate whilst Ni-doms had, on the basis that the NI-doms "never" changed their minds. Well, I have written several times here on PerC about the stubborness of NTJs (or TJs). I think it is a J trait to wish to control life, thus needing to simplify it and surroundings. More "black and white" so to speak. I read some texts where they stated that NPs had the BEST (as in most correct/objective) view of how the world really is. ENFPs best, ENTPs second. I do not know about this, but keeping an open mind so as to incorporate as much new info as possible before taking a last minute decision, that is a P trait. Js often have their goals set and work "with tunnel vision" towards that goal. I would guess that was the NJ "fate". But does that mean that NPs are free to find our own fate/destiny?

Ne-doms see myriad possibilities, some of which are more positive than others. So I do think that Ne- doms in general have more positive outlook than Ni-doms... If shit happens, it just generates new possibilities. It is not doom and gloom if your "one way" turns out to be a dead end.


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