# Is it possible to be extremely stressed for an extended period of time but NOT disintegrate?



## Purrfessor (Jul 30, 2013)

melody5697 said:


> Okay, I'm reading about people's experiences disintegrating to 2 and it really sounds absolutely nothing like what I was describing in my last post.


Keep in mind those people may not even be accurate representations of what 4s are let alone 4 disintegration. They might be convinced they are 4s but are actually another type. It happens a lot because the mind is easily controlled to a person's will.


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## melody5697 (Apr 19, 2015)

Purrfessor said:


> Keep in mind those people may not even be accurate representations of what 4s are let alone 4 disintegration. They might be convinced they are 4s but are actually another type. It happens a lot because the mind is easily controlled to a person's will.


I'm reading other sources, too. That one I linked is the only one that described it in a way that resembles what I described. I really don't think that was what was going on there.


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## Nightflash (7 mo ago)

My chip on the problem of what an enneagram type's disintegrate is.
The word stress can be misleading here. You don't necessarily go into the "unhealthy" state of the enneagram when feeling literal stress. I'll give an example of myself, I'm an 8. I'm hardly ever stressed, but if by some rare instance I am, I just try to deal with it. The point where I typically go to 5, is when I have a fight with someone, I just completely isolate myself and refuse to talk to anyone. It's more like how you respond when there's something negative going on in your life. The 8 becomes more healthier when they are connected to their emotions, let down some of their walls and become more like a 2.

4s go to 2 as in they become people pleasing. I know one 4 (ENFJ) and she had some problems and also a fear of people liking her and she said she tends to please people she doesn't even like. I recall talking with another 4 (INFP) on an app and she had a picture of a skeleton handing flowers saying "when you're dead inside, but still try to help people". 4s grow as becoming more dutiful like a 1, not excessively dwelling in emotions.

6s go to 3 as in they become shallow. I don't recall a good example for this, but one INTJ who was a 6, was normally nice to be around, but at times when he seemed stressed, he appeared much more disregarding of any morals or deeper issues there might be. Oh I know one example of that now, like if he seemed unhappy and someone else didn't deliver some school work in time, he wanted punishments for that regardless if there was good reason for it or not. When the 6 achieves more of a peaceful mind like a 9 and be freed from anxious thoughts, they can grow out of that 3 state.

9s go to 6 as in they become stubborn and worrying. I had a roommate who was a 9 (INFP) and he had a lifestyle of staying awake almost all night, sleeping in the morning and then having alarms going off like every half an hour, which I absolutely couldn't understand. I don't recall exactly what he said about that when I asked, but I think it was some worry of oversleeping. When I tried to confront him about having a better sleep schedule, since I sometimes woke up also during the night, he just brushed it off and said some obvious lie (Which to me as a 8 was infuriating, not that I didn't, but I was seriously considering throwing him out of the apartment). Later on he had a period where he was lying in bed quite literally 24/7, but it also appeared he had some form of depression at that time. I don't know where this came, but I think a different kind of example can be about relationships. I recalled a movie, Fantastic four, where Reed, the mister fantastic at first had broken up with Susan, the invisible woman, due to him not wanting to together with her. 9s can also appear as not wanting to take steps in relationships. These are typically solved when the 9 becomes self-growing and adapting like a 3.


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## melody5697 (Apr 19, 2015)

Nightflash said:


> My chip on the problem of what an enneagram type's disintegrate is.
> The word stress can be misleading here. You don't necessarily go into the "unhealthy" state of the enneagram when feeling literal stress. I'll give an example of myself, I'm an 8. I'm hardly ever stressed, but if by some rare instance I am, I just try to deal with it. The point where I typically go to 5, is when I have a fight with someone, I just completely isolate myself and refuse to talk to anyone. It's more like how you respond when there's something negative going on in your life. The 8 becomes more healthier when they are connected to their emotions, let down some of their walls and become more like a 2.
> 
> 4s go to 2 as in they become people pleasing. I know one 4 (ENFJ) and she had some problems and also a fear of people liking her and she said she tends to please people she doesn't even like. I recall talking with another 4 (INFP) on an app and she had a picture of a skeleton handing flowers saying "when you're dead inside, but still try to help people". 4s grow as becoming more dutiful like a 1, not excessively dwelling in emotions.
> ...


Thank you. Could you possibly elaborate further on 6 disintegrating to 3, or else point me towards some resources so I can read more about that? What you're saying sounds different from what I've read. I read that they become competitive and arrogant.


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## Nightflash (7 mo ago)

melody5697 said:


> Thank you. Could you possibly elaborate further on 6 disintegrating to 3, or else point me towards some resources so I can read more about that? What you're saying sounds different from what I've read. I read that they become competitive and arrogant.


I'm someone who is really lazy to research things and somewhat dislike reading. My brain can be an analytical powerhouse at times tho, so the way I've come up to these things is by observing people and integrating it with my limited knowledge of the enneagram. Whenever I think about something stimulating like this, I just have to walk around, it's hard to sit and read for me. Like I said, I didn't really remember a good example of a 6 going into 3, but what you've read about them becoming competitive and arrogant to what I know, might not be conflicting, but just seeing same thing from different perspectives. I do recall that 6 also complaining about him seeing the society as a competitive field where only the productive ones are rewarded. Which was a bit ridiculous and cynical view since in Finland there's bunch of help for people who are unemployed.

I could see that arrogance and competitiveness from another example that came to mind, which might not be so good example. In some twitch streams there's bettings on something happening or not. On one stream that I watch, I can't help to not connecting many of the doubting betters as 6s. Sometimes if there's some contradictory on the results, some people come out arrogant and trashtalking, while typically the "believing" side hardly ever says bad things. But I can't identify any of those people as 6s to begin with and that's kind of a minor thing, which is why I said it's a bad example.

In a theoretical view I could see the arrogance and competitiveness linked to 6s from a perspective of wanting to be a part of a group and staying loyal to it, which could make threats to the group more of a personal thing for a 6, making them want to defend the group their in, for staying loyal to it.

There's also the time period to take into account. The disintegration could last a moment or it could last weeks depending on the situation or how you look at it. Or if everything's relatively fine in your life, it wouldn't appear at all for long times. It could also come out a bit differently regarding what MBTI type, subtype, etc. you have. I think the counter (sexual) 6 is a clear difference from the other 6s, since they are more aggressive than the other two 6s. The funny thing is my mom is either a 3 or 6 and my grandma either a 6 or a 9, but it's so hard for some reason to see which one either of them really is. But like I said, I don't have good examples of this, so I can't help much with this type.


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## melody5697 (Apr 19, 2015)

Nightflash said:


> I'm someone who is really lazy to research things and somewhat dislike reading. My brain can be an analytical powerhouse at times tho, so the way I've come up to these things is by observing people and integrating it with my limited knowledge of the enneagram. Whenever I think about something stimulating like this, I just have to walk around, it's hard to sit and read for me. Like I said, I didn't really remember a good example of a 6 going into 3, but what you've read about them becoming competitive and arrogant to what I know, might not be conflicting, but just seeing same thing from different perspectives. I do recall that 6 also complaining about him seeing the society as a competitive field where only the productive ones are rewarded. Which was a bit ridiculous and cynical view since in Finland there's bunch of help for people who are unemployed.
> 
> I could see that arrogance and competitiveness from another example that came to mind, which might not be so good example. In some twitch streams there's bettings on something happening or not. On one stream that I watch, I can't help to not connecting many of the doubting betters as 6s. Sometimes if there's some contradictory on the results, some people come out arrogant and trashtalking, while typically the "believing" side hardly ever says bad things. But I can't identify any of those people as 6s to begin with and that's kind of a minor thing, which is why I said it's a bad example.
> 
> ...


And it would be impossible for someone to never disintegrate even if they're under a ton of stress, right? So much for being either a 6 or a 4, since I've never disintegrated to 3 or 2. Unless it really is possible for someone to be more prone to disintegrating the other way??? I mean, I've seen people say that the entire concept that people only disintegrate along one line and only integrate along the other came from someone misquoting Naranjo. If I'm a 4, then disintegrating to 1 might explain why I'm so irritated about everyone doing everything WRONG all the time. Except I don't think I was always like that when stressed. 6 would still be ruled out, though. I mean, according to this website:


> *When Sixes move towards the negative side of the Nine, they:*
> 
> – Numb themselves with drugs, television, reading, food, or sleep in order to stop obsessing
> 
> – Become spaced out and apathetic


I can absolutely relate to numbing myself with TV (or more often, the internet, which I'm surprised wasn't mentioned because it's absolutely in the same category), and I suppose it's very likely that I was numbing myself with reading when I was in middle school. I spend hours a day on the internet or watching TV and I lose all sense of time and I may not even properly notice that I'm hungry unless I start shaking from low blood sugar. (I guess that's why I'm losing weight without trying?) But I don't think I become spaced out and apathetic any other time. Or is this EXACTLY what that website is talking about?


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## skyboy (Jul 6, 2021)

I wrote this a few month ago :








High and low temperaments


To my knowledge, there is no text about high and low temperaments. It is unrelated to the Enneagram itself. It is however useful during a typing process to avoid confusing expressions of a type with a low or high temperament. Just like INTP is not type 5, temperaments can be misleading when...




www.personalitycafe.com




Maybe this could explain a few things. It is not based on any theory, it just based on my observation of people.


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## melody5697 (Apr 19, 2015)

skyboy said:


> I wrote this a few month ago :
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You're still thinking I'm a 1, I take it? Here's all the reasons I'm definitely not:

I don't do enough to monitor, correct, and improve my behavior and I never have.
I clearly lack self-control. (Did I mention that I spend several hours a day on the internet even though I know it's making my life worse?)
I've never been very responsible. (Which is also a point against 6. But there are more points against 1.)
1s are decisive. I constantly have to ask other people for help making decisions because I don't trust myself to make good decisions on my own.
While I'm reasonably organized at work, I am very disorganized at home and I was very disorganized at school.
I'm not rigid.
I see that it's more that other people see 1s as highly self-controlled and rigid, but people DON'T see me that way.
I'm not a 1! Would you like to know how people who actually know me see me? Here's how my grandma described me (she hasn't seen me in a while but nobody else was willing to describe me):


> Socially shy,, compassionate, though sometimes being opinionated and sensitive can negatively affect that.Methodical on things you are interest in. Like to have fun. Seeks to know the good.. Not very organized unless being methodical about something you like to do, then you can be very organized. Seek...something, both inside and outside, appreciate affirmation. Remember, we sadly have not spent lots of time together since you left and you are growing and changing so I might not be the best to ask. Also, your desire is always to be and do good, but you have or had some impulses when under extreme distress, to thīnk about doing things you normally wouldn't do - I can't say how real those thoughts are or if they are imaginations only. Also, you are craftsy, so creative in some way, but perhaps not original. Want to be helpful. You can get very angry on the one hand, apologetic on the other hand. You don't feel you understand the world well, which could be because of how you were raised could be partly because of your basic personality but made more difficult coming from 2 places. You like pleasing people, but not in a bad way, in a good.


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## skyboy (Jul 6, 2021)

I never said you were a 1. I never thought it. I said you had elements of type 1 and encouraged you to have a closer look at them. The article I'm sending does not suggest you're a 1. It is generalities about temperament and how this can be confused with the reactive triad, that's all. It also describes the modes of type 1 depending on the temperament. You can be connected to type 1 without being a 1. You can be connected to type 6 without being a 6...

Note : The type I have in mind for you is exactly the type I would see in your grandmother's description.


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## Lorem Ipsum (Apr 4, 2012)

Purrfessor said:


> Because it's not actually about stress. People think of stress as something "bad" but stress is actually very useful and healthy. They use the word stress cuz it's loaded with their hidden meanings of "bad" that they identify the word with.
> 
> In reality, disintegration is about "turning off" your base desire. For 4 the base desire to be an individual. However if you want to turn off this desire (maybe you're tired of making it all about you) then you just go to 2 and put the attention on others. Now you want to "turn on" that 4 desire to be an individual? Integrating to 1 allows the 4 to take consistent action in their development to become somebody worthy of an identity. For example being a blacksmith requires years of experience and training then you can call yourself "a blacksmith" which is "who you are" which is what the 4 focuses on.


I type at E4 and this has been my exact pattern.

I get stuck in myself; my wants, projects, perfectionism. I exhaust myself and feel guilty for being wholly self-centered.

I read your first post yesterday after thinking: It's gross that I can't get anything done and waste so much time. The least I can do is be helpful to someone else. So I did a good deed for someone and then ... nothing. I didn't get unstuck and I didn't feel better.

Enneagram 2.0 sounds exciting.


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## melody5697 (Apr 19, 2015)

skyboy said:


> I never said you were a 1. I never thought it. I said you had elements of type 1 and encouraged you to have a closer look at them. The article I'm sending does not suggest you're a 1. It is generalities about temperament and how this can be confused with the reactive triad, that's all. It also describes the modes of type 1 depending on the temperament. You can be connected to type 1 without being a 1. You can be connected to type 6 without being a 6...
> 
> Note : The type I have in mind for you is exactly the type I would see in your grandmother's description.


Sorry for misinterpreting what you said. What type do you have in mind for me? (I saw your post before you edited out the part where you mentioned that you have a type in mind for me but it's not 6.)


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## skyboy (Jul 6, 2021)

> What type do you have in mind for me?


I know this may sound strange but I say 9w1.

Please give me the benefit of the doubt for a few minutes.

You don't appear as miss "peace of mind", you don't seem to avoid conflicts.... But you have very important markers : compassionate, creative, shy, stubborn, VERY angry... You grandmother said maybe the most important thing that is so fundamental about 9s : you are both very angry and apologetic. And she said important things about the 1 wing as well : methodical, wanting to be good. "seeking for the good" is more 9 than 1.

You have strong elements of type 6. They are unusually strong for a 9. You question the authority until you get its attention, until you get its clarity... And this is definitely type 6. For me, you are a 9w1, with strong 6s defences at the top. So in a way, you are right : type 6 is a problem because there is no disintegration to 3. It would be a disintegration to 9... What I say is that it is the other way around : it is 9 disintegrating to 6. And this would explain the presence of type 1 : the wing.

That's my take. It may sound a bit strange, I won't insist on it. But I needed to give my opinion.


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## Nightflash (7 mo ago)

melody5697 said:


> And it would be impossible for someone to never disintegrate even if they're under a ton of stress, right? So much for being either a 6 or a 4, since I've never disintegrated to 3 or 2. Unless it really is possible for someone to be more prone to disintegrating the other way??? I mean, I've seen people say that the entire concept that people only disintegrate along one line and only integrate along the other came from someone misquoting Naranjo. If I'm a 4, then disintegrating to 1 might explain why I'm so irritated about everyone doing everything WRONG all the time. Except I don't think I was always like that when stressed. 6 would still be ruled out, though. I mean, according to this website:
> 
> I can absolutely relate to numbing myself with TV (or more often, the internet, which I'm surprised wasn't mentioned because it's absolutely in the same category), and I suppose it's very likely that I was numbing myself with reading when I was in middle school. I spend hours a day on the internet or watching TV and I lose all sense of time and I may not even properly notice that I'm hungry unless I start shaking from low blood sugar. (I guess that's why I'm losing weight without trying?) But I don't think I become spaced out and apathetic any other time. Or is this EXACTLY what that website is talking about?


I read some of your answers in another typing post and I'd agree with skyboy, I'd find 9w1 probable. You did describe there that you had become worrying of others hating you at times, which I could connect as the going into 6. Maybe you're not a 1, but the desire to be good comes a lot in your answers, which could be the 1 wing. Also since the anger is the most present feeling between shame, anxiety and anger it would point towards the gut center (8,9,1). The "not avoiding conflicts" in this case seems to come from the possible autism (?) if I understood correctly, since I got the expression you don't mean to start them. If I start a conflict it's because I've had enough of some shit.


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## melody5697 (Apr 19, 2015)

Don't 9s fall asleep to their anger? Like, deny it even exists??? And what about the fact that I don't have the key motivations of a 9? Isn't it all about the motivations? Also, I do not agree with my grandma's assessment that shyness is a natural trait of mine. It's really not. I wasn't always like this. I became like this because I made so many mistakes and hurt people so many times and it's safer for everyone if I'm much more cautious about talking to people. I hate it. I miss being able to just go up to people and talk to them and make new friends. Now I can't do that. And what about my religious intolerance, which was consistent from when I was seven years old up until I stopped being a Christian when I was 14? That doesn't sound very much like a 9. And I used to be VERY argumentative. (Or at least my dad said I was, but he was in a dissociative state from the time he married my mom until five years ago, so who knows?) And there have been times when I've actually instigated conflict. I've never tried to make peace in my family, and I did not numb out when my parents were fighting. At least once, I even intentionally went and listened while my parents were fighting because it was interesting. I can understand how my going along with whatever other kids wanted to do could look 9ish, but I didn't ALWAYS do that. In third grade, I guilt-tripped a friend into doing something she didn't want to do. And in fourth grade, I repeatedly hit a boy on the bus with a book because I thought his reaction was funny. (Turns out I wasn't actually hurting him and he was acting like that to make me laugh.) And I called a girl fat when she wasn't. And in fifth grade, my best friend felt like I was pressuring her to hang out in my tiny closet (which I liked to pretend was a secret room). And I once asked this girl in my class how she would react if people said all these mean things to her. She was crying and people were telling me to stop, and I laughed and said I was just curious. And the way I coped with stress in middle school... The main way wasn't by numbing myself with books. I was just trying to make things fit when I said that. Today I told my dad what was actually going in in elementary school and middle school (it turns out he had no idea) and that helped me work out what was really happening in middle school and I finally understand wtf was going through my head. I spent all of middle school acting super hyper, happy, random (except I really was just shouting the same few things over and over), and as annoying as possible. The truth was that I hated myself and I was suffering from extreme guilt for what a terrible person I'd been in elementary school and I was having suicidal thoughts every day. But I just kept acting like that. I just kept telling myself that I was SO HAPPY, even as I lost all my friends. I was SO HAPPY, even as my dad blamed me for all his problems. I was SO HAPPY, even as I barely passed my classes. I was SO HAPPY, even as my world fell apart around me. At one point I realized I wasn't acting like myself and I felt like I didn't even remember who I really was, so I freaked out and wrote depressing poetry for a few days, then decided that was too painful to deal with and went back to pretending I was SO HAPPY. My cat died. I was still SO HAPPY. My dad took away the internet. I was still SO HAPPY. My dad banned me from reading manga. I was still SO HAPPY. My dad repeatedly took away my diary. I was still SO HAPPY. I wished I was dead. I was still SO HAPPY. I believed that everyone secretly hated me. I was still SO HAPPY. I was actually telling everyone at school about all my problems, and yet I was still just SO HAPPY. I just kept acting hyper and crazy and annoying and super loud because it allowed me to fool myself into believing I was happy, and I thought I was fooling everyone else as well. I just couldn't deal with how much pain I was actually in. Then I realized I was attracted to girls. (I'm actually straight, but I was attracted to girls when I was younger. Now I'm attracted to men.) While my church's opinion on gay people wasn't exactly HATEFUL, their attitude towards sin in general ("EVERYONE DESERVES TO BURN IN HELL FOR ALL ETERNITY FOR EVERYTHING THEY'VE EVER DONE WRONG EVEN THOUGH NOT SINNING IS LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE") was very unhelpful. I was starting to fall apart. I broke down in school more frequently. I would sometimes catch myself withdrawing and immediately go back to acting SO HAPPY because I was more terrified of what would happen if I stopped and everyone realized how I was REALLY feeling than of the consequences of continuing to behave in such a bizarre way. My behavior became more extreme. I was doing stuff like running down the halls squealing like a guinea pig. I was terrified. I didn't know why I was acting this way. I was banging my head against hard objects in front of teachers and other students, but I just kept pretending that I was SO HAPPY. I would scream and cry about how stupid I was, then after someone told me to calm down, I would start laughing hysterically. Eventually I wasn't even fooling myself anymore. Then I messed up the one real friendship I had IRL. I didn't know what I'd done because she just moved away without warning, but I knew it was my fault (and her mom later confirmed that it really was). I started stabbing and scratching myself with pins and giving myself eraser burns in class. I told everyone, but I still acted SO HAPPY. Then I told one of the very few people who I thought maybe I could actually trust, and she accused me of looking for attention. I started cutting with boxcutters but I didn't tell anyone. Then on the last day of school before spring break, I was sitting with the one other girl who I thought I might be able to trust at lunch, and another girl at the table talked about being worried that people would think that a scratch on her hand was an eraser burn. So I showed everyone what an eraser burn ACTUALLY looks like. That girl who I thought maybe I could trust asked, "Are you EMO?!" I screamed, "I'M NOT EMO!!!" She got this terrified look on her face, but it was the same as when I'd showed her Gloomy Bear, so I didn't realize she was actually scared. I started laughing. I laughed for the rest of lunch. Then I realized she was genuinely scared. I tried to apologize, but she ran away whenever I got near her. The following Monday, I took a bunch of aspirin. My original intent was just to hurt myself, but then I was like, screw it, I'm just gonna kill myself. So I took a total of 39 aspirins. I ended up calling 911 myself because I was afraid of going to hell. I continued to behave in the same manner in which I'd been behaving for the rest of eighth grade. I was finally able to stop in ninth grade but then I withdrew from everyone because I was so terrified of being who I'd been in middle school, and the rest is no different from how it's been presented elsewhere. I guess it must seem pretty weird that I'm presenting this completely differently from before, but middle school is something I've spent the last 11 years trying to find an explanation for. I've been bouncing from possible explanation to possible explanation, always deciding that the last one I came up with didn't quite fit. Maybe this one works? Anyway, that doesn't sound like 9 to me. I don't know WHAT it sounds like, but not 9.


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## melody5697 (Apr 19, 2015)

I suppose since my parents fighting wasn't the big issue in my childhood, that wouldn't necessarily be something that would make me numb out if I was gonna numb out. But I didn't numb out when I was being beaten and called a retard, either. I absolutely felt all of it.


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## melody5697 (Apr 19, 2015)

Soooo I was about to type a ton more reasons why I can't be a 9 even though I was beginning to wonder if maybe I actually am, but then I discovered that apparently I completely misunderstood what a lack of boundaries means. I was saying that JUST because of the over-sharing of details of my life with people who I don't even really know. I just looked up a list of 18 signs that one lacks boundaries, and the only two that I relate to are that and difficulty making decisions. I don't know why I was telling everyone everything, but it wasn't a general lack of boundaries. So if my statement that I lacked boundaries in middle school is the main reason why you're thinking I'm a 9...

Also, I apologize for repeating a bunch of stuff that had already been said.


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## Nightflash (7 mo ago)

[Enneagram Type 9] - Social Nines (according to Beatrice... I agree that there's things I don't find compatible with 9 there, but the convincing of being happy when you weren't sounds like something a 9 would do. I wouldn't say 9s deny their is no anger, I would say they try to hide it. I'm sorry for what you've gone through in adolescence. I feel like what has happened in your life makes this really hard to type you. Yes, enneagram is about key motivations. I could link that really hard convincing yourself that you're happy, when you weren't being 9s motivation to gain piece of mind by any means necessary or to 7s desire to not face pain, but that's typically by keeping themselves busy.
"*Key Motivations:* Want to create harmony in their environment, to avoid conflicts and tension, to preserve things as they are, to resist whatever would upset or disturb them." Quoted from enneagram institute. If you really don't find these motivations from within you, then I agree upon you're not being a 9. It doesn't say that conflicts don't happen in your life, the desire is to just avoid them. Also the social 9 is a counter 9, which appears less subduing as the other 9s, because IF you are a 9, you're most probably the social one.


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## melody5697 (Apr 19, 2015)

Nightflash said:


> [Enneagram Type 9] - Social Nines (according to Beatrice... I agree that there's things I don't find compatible with 9 there, but the convincing of being happy when you weren't sounds like something a 9 would do. I wouldn't say 9s deny their is no anger, I would say they try to hide it. I'm sorry for what you've gone through in adolescence. I feel like what has happened in your life makes this really hard to type you. Yes, enneagram is about key motivations. I could link that really hard convincing yourself that you're happy, when you weren't being 9s motivation to gain piece of mind by any means necessary or to 7s desire to not face pain, but that's typically by keeping themselves busy.
> "*Key Motivations:* Want to create harmony in their environment, to avoid conflicts and tension, to preserve things as they are, to resist whatever would upset or disturb them." Quoted from enneagram institute. If you really don't find these motivations from within you, then I agree upon you're not being a 9. It doesn't say that conflicts don't happen in your life, the desire is to just avoid them. Also the social 9 is a counter 9, which appears less subduing as the other 9s, because IF you are a 9, you're most probably the social one.


Uh, yeah, that doesn't sound like how I act at all. I guess I'm probably still too messed up to be trying to figure out my enneagram type. I mean, I was on medication that made me zombie-like from age 15 to age 21 (I was misdiagnosed with bipolar disorder). Then I went to a free career technical training program for disadvantaged youth called Job Corps and convinced the psychiatrist to take me off of that medication, but I was sexually assaulted a few months later and I wasn't offered therapy. Then I was a wreck until I left Job Corps, and since then (so for the past 3.5 years) I've spent most of my time outside of work procrastinating by watching TV, playing games on my phone or computer, and mindlessly browsing the internet. I honestly have absolutely no idea what motivates me. Perhaps I should get some therapy and come back to this at a later time.


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## Nightflash (7 mo ago)

melody5697 said:


> Uh, yeah, that doesn't sound like how I act at all. I guess I'm probably still too messed up to be trying to figure out my enneagram type. I mean, I was on medication that made me zombie-like from age 15 to age 21 (I was misdiagnosed with bipolar disorder). Then I went to a free career technical training program for disadvantaged youth called Job Corps and convinced the psychiatrist to take me off of that medication, but I was sexually assaulted a few months later and I wasn't offered therapy. Then I was a wreck until I left Job Corps, and since then (so for the past 3.5 years) I've spent most of my time outside of work procrastinating by watching TV, playing games on my phone or computer, and mindlessly browsing the internet. I honestly have absolutely no idea what motivates me. Perhaps I should get some therapy and come back to this at a later time.


"*Key Motivations:* Want to create harmony in their environment, to avoid conflicts and tension, to preserve things as they are, to resist whatever would upset or disturb them." Ok, but you didn't answer the question of do you recognize these within you or not? Yes or no? You keep making this about your personal life all the time, which I do agree would probably be better to go over in therapy.


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## melody5697 (Apr 19, 2015)

Nightflash said:


> "*Key Motivations:* Want to create harmony in their environment, to avoid conflicts and tension, to preserve things as they are, to resist whatever would upset or disturb them." Ok, but you didn't answer the question of do you recognize these within you or not? Yes or no? You keep making this about your personal life all the time, which I do agree would probably be better to go over in therapy.


I don't know. I really have absolutely no idea.


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## melody5697 (Apr 19, 2015)

Btw, I was talking about my personal life in post #58 because it's a possible explanation for why I don't know. One is supposed to really develop their sense of identity in late adolescence and early young adulthood, right? But I had too many issues going on, and now I still latch onto different identities and mold myself to fit them to some extent, just like when I was a young teenager. I really, truly have no idea what motivates me. It's too easy for me to read some description that describes some of my behavior and just completely alter my entire understanding of myself and even change the way I act to fit the description better. It was just a couple years ago that I was still trying to be like fictional characters.


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## Retsu (Aug 12, 2011)

melody5697 said:


> Btw, I was talking about my personal life in post #58 because it's a possible explanation for why I don't know. One is supposed to really develop their sense of identity in late adolescence and early young adulthood, right? But I had too many issues going on, and now I still latch onto different identities and mold myself to fit them to some extent, just like when I was a young teenager. I really, truly have no idea what motivates me. It's too easy for me to read some description that describes some of my behavior and just completely alter my entire understanding of myself and even change the way I act to fit the description better. It was just a couple years ago that I was still trying to be like fictional characters.


Same, you're most likely a 9

As an addition, they're still part of the anger triad. Outbursts like you describe are when you really snap.


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## melody5697 (Apr 19, 2015)

Retsu said:


> Same, you're most likely a 9
> 
> As an addition, they're still part of the anger triad. Outbursts like you describe are when you really snap.


But what about that time when I was being mean to my classmate and she was crying and people were telling me to stop but I just laughed and kept being mean? And what about the fact that I like sad things, including sad things that I can relate to? What about the fact that I talked about my feelings ALL THE TIME (though mostly just through text message and email) when my depression was at its worst? (Well, second-worst, but the time when it was at its worst probably doesn't really count because of the medication I was on. It was really, really, REALLY bad. And if I hadn't gotten into Job Corps when I did... Either I would've committed suicide or I would've been on the streets somewhere, completely non-functional, with people from my church frantically trying to find me and get me into a residential treatment program.) What about just the fact that I'm comfortable sharing SO many details about my life?


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## Retsu (Aug 12, 2011)

melody5697 said:


> But what about that time when I was being mean to my classmate and she was crying and people were telling me to stop but I just laughed and kept being mean? And what about the fact that I like sad things, including sad things that I can relate to? What about the fact that I talked about my feelings ALL THE TIME (though mostly just through text message and email) when my depression was at its worst? (Well, second-worst, but the time when it was at its worst probably doesn't really count because of the medication I was on. It was really, really, REALLY bad. And if I hadn't gotten into Job Corps when I did... Either I would've committed suicide or I would've been on the streets somewhere, completely non-functional, with people from my church frantically trying to find me and get me into a residential treatment program.) What about just the fact that I'm comfortable sharing SO many details about my life?


That's just you being unpleasant, which is something people of all types can do.
4s don't have a monopoly on liking sad things.
Positive is more accurately called reframing. It's like the dog in the house on fire meme where everything is fine, more than unending optimism.
I'm not sure why you think telling others about how you feel isn't a 9 trait, since I definitely tell others my feelings... _except _the one who has caused me to feel them, usually.
I don't think a lack of need for privacy is a type related trait, either. Different people have different boundaries.


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## melody5697 (Apr 19, 2015)

Retsu said:


> That's just you being unpleasant, which is something people of all types can do.
> 4s don't have a monopoly on liking sad things.
> Positive is more accurately called reframing. It's like the dog in the house on fire meme where everything is fine, more than unending optimism.
> I'm not sure why you think telling others about how you feel isn't a 9 trait, since I definitely tell others my feelings... _except _the one who has caused me to feel them, usually.
> I don't think a lack of need for privacy is a type related trait, either. Different people have different boundaries.


Sorry. I guess I misinterpreted something I read. And I guess it's just that the guy from here who I've exchanged over 200 messages with through PM still thinks I'm a 4 (even though I'm pretty sure I'm not because I can only think of one time I've ever felt envy and I'm not even sure of that because I was eight) because he sees me as liking to delve into my emotions. But, like, if 9s avoid being affected by pain and stuff, doesn't listening to _Field of Innocence_ by Evanescence on repeat while thinking about how much I missed being a happy, innocent child (this was in eighth grade) seem like a pretty bad way to avoid pain? Or perhaps there's an argument to be made that I WAS avoiding pain because I was still denying that I'd been abused as a child and I was pretending that my childhood was happy and normal.


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## Retsu (Aug 12, 2011)

melody5697 said:


> Sorry. I guess I misinterpreted something I read. And I guess it's just that the guy from here who I've exchanged over 200 messages with through PM still thinks I'm a 4 (even though I'm pretty sure I'm not because I can only think of one time I've ever felt envy and I'm not even sure of that because I was eight) because he sees me as liking to delve into my emotions. But, like, if 9s avoid being affected by pain and stuff, doesn't listening to _Field of Innocence_ by Evanescence on repeat while thinking about how much I missed being a happy, innocent child (this was in eighth grade) seem like a pretty bad way to avoid pain? Or perhaps there's an argument to be made that I WAS avoiding pain because I was still denying that I'd been abused as a child and I was pretending that my childhood was happy and normal.


Lol.
7s are known to run from pain obsessively, 9s maintain inner peace and want to be unaffected. It's numbing oneself as opposed to active avoidance.


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## melody5697 (Apr 19, 2015)

Retsu said:


> Lol.
> 7s are known to run from pain obsessively, 9s maintain inner peace and want to be unaffected. It's numbing oneself as opposed to active avoidance.


So numbing yourself and intentionally listening to music that you know will make you think about how much pain you're actually in aren't mutually exclusive???


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## Retsu (Aug 12, 2011)

melody5697 said:


> So numbing yourself and intentionally listening to music that you know will make you think about how much pain you're actually in aren't mutually exclusive???


You could argue that doing that is a form of rumination, and you're falling asleep to your real problem, i.e. the source of the pain. Not doing anything about it and instead indulging yourself with rituals because they're familiar and comfortable.


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## melody5697 (Apr 19, 2015)

Retsu said:


> You could argue that doing that is a form of rumination, and you're falling asleep to your real problem, i.e. the source of the pain. Not doing anything about it and instead indulging yourself with rituals because they're familiar and comfortable.


That makes sense. So when I faked OCD in ninth grade because it distracted me from my real problems (yup, I was one of those teenagers who faked a mental illness), and when I was starving myself when I was 19 because it distracted me from my real problems (it may or may not have technically counted as a real eating disorder because I was able to stop when my dad told me about how much his porn addiction destroyed his life and I saw parallels between addiction and eating disorders)... Are those things also compatible?


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## Retsu (Aug 12, 2011)

melody5697 said:


> That makes sense. So when I faked OCD in ninth grade because it distracted me from my real problems (yup, I was one of those teenagers who faked a mental illness), and when I was starving myself when I was 19 because it distracted me from my real problems (it may or may not have technically counted as a real eating disorder because I was able to stop when my dad told me about how much his porn addiction destroyed his life and I saw parallels between addiction and eating disorders)... Are those things also compatible?


I'm not sure I'm comfortable on commenting on such extreme behaviours as being type related, honestly.


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## melody5697 (Apr 19, 2015)

Retsu said:


> I'm not sure I'm comfortable on commenting on such extreme behaviours as being type related, honestly.


Right. Sorry.


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## Nightflash (7 mo ago)

melody5697 said:


> Right. Sorry.


Well, since this is still going on, I was thinking on self-preservation 2 also as a possibility. [Enneagram Type 2] - Self-Preservation Twos (according... Instead of the 9s descriptions which are more obviously unfitting, I could see this more fitting possibly? I can guarantee you're not a 4 at least because of the lack of envy and not dwelling into the negative stuff. The part about wanting to share every detail of your life is by thought process wise coming from the Fi-Si by INFP, and I can see the sp 2 actually doing that also, because the one sp 2 I met IRL, actually did the same thing.


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## Retsu (Aug 12, 2011)

Nightflash said:


> Well, since this is still going on, I was thinking on self-preservation 2 also as a possibility. [Enneagram Type 2] - Self-Preservation Twos (according... Instead of the 9s descriptions which are more obviously unfitting, I could see this more fitting possibly? I can guarantee you're not a 4 at least because of the lack of envy and not dwelling into the negative stuff. The part about wanting to share every detail of your life is by thought process wise coming from the Fi-Si by INFP, and I can see the sp 2 actually doing that also, because the one sp 2 I met IRL, actually did the same thing.


I don't believe including subtypes is helpful when she doesn't even know her main type yet.

Look at subtypes _independently_ of type, then the subtype descriptions can help explain why you don't feel like a typical example of that type.


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## Nightflash (7 mo ago)

Retsu said:


> I don't believe including subtypes is helpful when she doesn't even know her main type yet.
> 
> Look at subtypes _independently_ of type, then the subtype descriptions can help explain why you don't feel like a typical example of that type.


I didn't ask you, I asked the OP. There's no harm including subtypes for better accuracy, specially if they happen to be a countertype.


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## Retsu (Aug 12, 2011)

Nightflash said:


> I didn't ask you, I asked the OP. There's no harm including subtypes for better accuracy, specially if they happen to be a countertype.


It's not harmful, but it's needless confusion. The sp 2 is still a 2, just a branch of an overarching archetype. It's not a separate type.


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## melody5697 (Apr 19, 2015)

Nightflash said:


> Well, since this is still going on, I was thinking on self-preservation 2 also as a possibility. [Enneagram Type 2] - Self-Preservation Twos (according... Instead of the 9s descriptions which are more obviously unfitting, I could see this more fitting possibly? I can guarantee you're not a 4 at least because of the lack of envy and not dwelling into the negative stuff. The part about wanting to share every detail of your life is by thought process wise coming from the Fi-Si by INFP, and I can see the sp 2 actually doing that also, because the one sp 2 I met IRL, actually did the same thing.


I guess I'm cute and child-like? But I read a description of 2s in general and I don't think I relate to vainglory. Like, I think I relate to that almost as little as I relate to envy. I'm not actually 100% certain I don't have a history of dwelling in the negative stuff. I mean, I used to be tormented by memories of everything I've ever done wrong. On the other hand, I wasn't thinking about those things intentionally most of the time. The memories were intrusive. They just popped into my head suddenly and tormented me. It's become a much less frequent occurrence since I got off of that medication I used to take.

Also, don't they say that the type description that's painful to read is probably the one??? Because I read a description yesterday that was painful to read and I've felt...out of it ever since. I'm probably just really suggestible and imagining it, though.


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## Retsu (Aug 12, 2011)

melody5697 said:


> I guess I'm cute and child-like? But I read a description of 2s in general and I don't think I relate to vainglory. Like, I think I relate to that almost as little as I relate to envy. I'm not actually 100% certain I don't have a history of dwelling in the negative stuff. I mean, I used to be tormented by memories of everything I've ever done wrong. On the other hand, I wasn't thinking about those things intentionally most of the time. The memories were intrusive. They just popped into my head suddenly and tormented me. It's become a much less frequent occurrence since I got off of that medication I used to take.
> 
> Also, don't they say that the type description that's painful to read is probably the one??? Because I read a description yesterday that was painful to read and I've felt...out of it ever since. I'm probably just really suggestible and imagining it, though.


I think a lot of people have that, yeah. Lying awake being kept up by your past shames involuntarily.

Yes, the description for 9 cut deep enough to make me cry when I actually read it properly instead of discounting it because it was a "positive" type.

You've at least discounted 2 and 4, which is good progress.


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## melody5697 (Apr 19, 2015)

It was this one. (Didn't quite cry, though.) It's probably my imagination.


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## Retsu (Aug 12, 2011)

melody5697 said:


> It was this one. (Didn't quite cry, though.) It's probably my imagination.


What parts of it resonated with you?


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## melody5697 (Apr 19, 2015)

Retsu said:


> What parts of it resonated with you?


I don't know.


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## Retsu (Aug 12, 2011)

melody5697 said:


> I don't know.


I mean, what made you feel the emotion?


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## melody5697 (Apr 19, 2015)

Retsu said:


> I mean, what made you feel the emotion?


I don't want to think about it. This was a bad idea. I wish I'd stayed away from this.


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## Retsu (Aug 12, 2011)

melody5697 said:


> I don't want to think about it. This was a bad idea. I wish I'd stayed away from this.


That's okay. I would recommend ignoring it if it's just going to cause you stress and you think it's a bad idea. It is meant to be for self help, after all.


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## melody5697 (Apr 19, 2015)

Retsu said:


> That's okay. I would recommend ignoring it if it's just going to cause you stress and you think it's a bad idea. It is meant to be for self help, after all.


What has been read cannot be unread. It's probably for the best. I mean, now that it's all but confirmed that I'm a 9 disintegrating to 6, it's clear that I am NOT fine no matter how much I keep telling myself I am. So maybe this is the push I need to actually get help? Idk. This just isn't what I was expecting when I started trying to figure this out. The guy who I've been talking to through PMs wanted to know my tritype. He was satisfied with the result I got on the first test I took (4w5-1w2-6w5), but 4 didn't sound quite right to me, so I dug deeper. I was just trying to answer his question, not find out how messed up I am.

But maybe this is all just my imagination and I'm actually fine.


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## Retsu (Aug 12, 2011)

melody5697 said:


> What has been read cannot be unread. It's probably for the best. I mean, now that it's all but confirmed that I'm a 9 disintegrating to 6, it's clear that I am NOT fine no matter how much I keep telling myself I am. So maybe this is the push I need to actually get help? Idk. This just isn't what I was expecting when I started trying to figure this out. The guy who I've been talking to through PMs wanted to know my tritype. He was satisfied with the result I got on the first test I took (4w5-1w2-6w5), but 4 didn't sound quite right to me, so I dug deeper. I was just trying to answer his question, not find out how messed up I am.
> 
> But maybe this is all just my imagination and I'm actually fine.


Acknowledgement is the first step to recovery.  

I typed at 641 as well. Tritype really doesn't help. 

I'm sorry that you dived deeper than expected, since the bad news about Enneagram is that it does indeed shine a light on your worst traits. It's not easy to read about how you're a bad person, unlike MBTI being far more flowery and "fun".

The good news about Enneagram is that now you know your trappings of personality, the point is to break out of them and not need to rely on them. Easier said than done... But I know when I'm being lazy at least 😎


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## melody5697 (Apr 19, 2015)

Retsu said:


> Acknowledgement is the first step to recovery.
> 
> I typed at 641 as well. Tritype really doesn't help.
> 
> ...


Wait, how does someone get "bad person" from that description??? I just got "person who needs therapy" from it.


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## Retsu (Aug 12, 2011)

melody5697 said:


> Wait, how does someone get "bad person" from that description??? I just got "person who needs therapy" from it.


By having a 1 wing 😎


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## secondpassing (Jan 13, 2018)

melody5697 said:


> Wait, how does someone get "bad person" from that description??? I just got "person who needs therapy" from it.


You might be reading that wrong. I think by "bad" she meant: "a person that doesn't measure up to a standard." It's not an overall judge of your character. We just all have things to work on.


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## Retsu (Aug 12, 2011)

secondpassing said:


> You might be reading that wrong. I think by "bad" she meant: "a person that doesn't measure up to a standard." It's not an overall judge of your character. We just all have things to work on.


Exactly what I meant, thanks.


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## melody5697 (Apr 19, 2015)

Okay, I'm ready to answer now. It was the parts about "Nothing is worthwhile" and "Love is not real" that were very upsetting.

But... What if I'm wrong about this? I mean, I assume the reason why I don't numb out during conflict now is because disintegrating to 6 causes reactivity. But I'm not certain about other times, I guess? I suppose there was that time when my friend and I were discussing home schooling, but he wasn't letting me speak and I was getting really frustrated, so finally I yelled, "Listen!!!" and then his body language got all aggressive and scary and he was like, "REALLY?!" I'd never even realized before that he can actually be a really scary guy. I literally ran away from him and then I shut down and wouldn't talk to anyone and my other friends were trying to figure out what had just happened. (This was when I was 19. So I was on that medication.) But what about that time in fourth grade when I was at my friend's house and she was Hindu and I started trying to convince her to convert to Christianity and we ended up fighting until her dad came in and intervened? Idk. Maybe nothing really fits. It also seems like false assumptions may be being made about me. For example, the assumption that I don't dwell on the negative. I don't as much NOW, but I remember in ninth grade, I actually lost an internet friend who got tired of my "pity party." And this was someone who had decided to befriend me specifically because she wanted to help me. Are we really certain I'm not a 4??? I mean, I don't THINK I feel envy... But it does sound like maybe 4 envy is defined a bit differently? I remember one time when I was 20 and really severely depressed (as in barely able to get out of bed, sitting alone in my apartment watching TV all day while surrounded by flies and mice and moldy dishes, barely eating, only showering when I couldn't stand my own stench anymore, cutting myself, and fantasizing about suicide), I told a friend (who is also an INFP and has struggled with depression since second grade) that I wished I was normal. She asked why. I said that normal people don't have severe depression. She said that's not actually true. I was honestly bewildered, since part of my definition of normal was not having severe psychological issues. Could it be that I was envious of "normal" people??? But of course, I was on medication at the time that literally made it impossible to use Ne and caused anhedonia, which is why I'm not sure anything that happened back then really counts. But, like, I'm looking at a thing about how to tell 4s and 9s apart. So it says that the art of 4s is personal and self-revealing while the art of 9s "often expresses idealized, mythological, and archetypal worlds–usually the real world glossed into something fantastic and wondrous." And it says that stories that 9s tell always have happy endings while stories that 4s tell are tragic. It has been a very long time since I've attempted to create art. But when I was in eighth grade, I wrote a lot of poetry and it was always about the problems in my life, like my anger at a friend suddenly abandoning me or how worried I was about my best friend or how much I was dreading the upcoming summer because I knew I would be in complete social isolation (I wasn't allowed to use the internet at home and I didn't have real life friends and I hadn't yet discovered that my dad had failed to block me from setting up an email account on my iPod Touch) or even this time when a boy at school manipulated me into kissing him and how the magic of my first kiss was wasted on that jerk (okay, that one was at the end of seventh grade; I wanted to try my hand at poetry and that had just happened, so I wrote about it). More recently, I wrote a My Little Pony fan fiction about Princess Luna's descent into depression after getting her cutie mark and what really lead to her becoming Nightmare Moon, though that was when I was still on that medication. It was also terrible. When I showed it to my friend, he said he couldn't even read it because everyone was acting so out-of-character. I concluded that I was incapable of understanding people, making all my dreams impossible (this was back when I still thought I might be able to become a therapist someday), and I spent the next hour at the side of the road trying to muster the "courage" to jump in front of a car. (This was shortly before the period of really severe depression that I described earlier.) I know that the whole thing where I was desperately trying to convince myself that I was happy all through middle school despite my world falling apart around me sounds 9ish, but what about when I DO brood over my emotions? I'm sure I've historically done that at least some of the time. And what about today? (Well, technically yesterday, at this point.) I spent most of the day thinking about what a mess I am, but at the same time, for most of the day I felt nothing (except a bit of mild annoyance at a political ad misrepresenting a proposed state constitutional amendment that I think sounds like a good idea; I didn't even get annoyed at my coworker who's always making me mad) and I was in a state of derealization. What should I even make of that? (Don't worry. I feel normal now.) And then the last point in the page about the differences between 4s and 9s is, "Nines see the world through rose-colored glasses, and their view of it is comforting, whereas Fours see the world from a garret window as outsiders and are not comforted: everyone else seems to be living a happier, more normal life." And, like... Yes, when I actually think about it, it's likely true that most people have happier, more normal lives than me, but that's not really something I think about much? Idk if I can really quite say that I see the world through rose-colored glasses, but I do believe that people are mostly good (even if I sometimes forget that in the moment) and the world is an amazing and beautiful place full of so much potential and the world _is_ actually getting better overall, even if sometimes it doesn't seem like it. So idk.


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## Retsu (Aug 12, 2011)

Well... Only you can say which of the two is correct. We can only go off of what you choose to share.
Fours are always hung up on that feeling of deficiency and it's not just a sometimes thing. You noted that your brooding was intrusive, rather than instigated by you, so that's another indicator you can use to determine your type if it's helpful for you to do so.
At the moment, I don't think it is. Sit with type 9 for a while and don't read into anything else for now. It's not helping you.
I don't feel comfortable commenting on traumatic life events as being type related, because I don't believe they are.


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## melody5697 (Apr 19, 2015)

Retsu said:


> Well... Only you can say which of the two is correct. We can only go off of what you choose to share.
> Fours are always hung up on that feeling of deficiency and it's not just a sometimes thing. You noted that your brooding was intrusive, rather than instigated by you, so that's another indicator you can use to determine your type if it's helpful for you to do so.
> At the moment, I don't think it is. Sit with type 9 for a while and don't read into anything else for now. It's not helping you.
> I don't feel comfortable commenting on traumatic life events as being type related, because I don't believe they are.


Sorry if I made you worry. I'm really okay. I just had one bad day. The issues I've discussed in this thread really aren't that big a deal. I'm fine.


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## melody5697 (Apr 19, 2015)

Hmm... But what about the time in ninth grade when that girl on the internet was trying to help me and then she told me to let her know when my "pity party" was over because I literally told her that I was ignoring her and cutting myself instead? [deleted at the request of a person who was mentioned]

Let's see... As for something less depressing, I was in a musical when I was 15, and the last song was Thriller. So I was in this zombie costume. After the performance, I went to Walgreens while still in costume and started staggering around acting like a zombie. I actually banged on someone's car window and got called crazy. Then I went inside the store and realized I couldn't keep it up without getting the police called on me, so I explained to all the people staring that I'd just been in a musical and the last song was Thriller.

One time when I was 15, back when I was going to school still (and before the medication), I went up to some random guy while waiting for my grandparents to pick me up and said, "Oh my god, is it you? Oh my god, it IS you! I missed you SO MUCH!!!" Then I tried to kiss him (but he was too tall). Then I slapped him, said, "Why didn't you call me?!" and walked away. Then I started laughing. It was in a WikiHow article about how to freak people out. I was SO messed up when I was 15.

One time when I was 19, I went to Walmart at midnight on April Fool's day and started doing all this weird stuff for fun. Some of it was stuff from an article about how to have fun at Walmart. Let's see... I built a wall of toilet paper in the middle of the toilet paper aisle. I saw the employees having a lot of fun knocking it down with balls later. I took plastic snakes from the toy department and hid them all over the store. I filled up carts with random items and left them in the middle of aisles. I hid condoms behind toys in the toy department. (I REALLY shouldn't have done that.) I tuned a radio into an annoying radio station and turned it up all the way. Twice. I followed some random guy around while picking up and sniffing random items until he asked me if he could help me. My original plan was just to copy everything he said, but I started giggling, so I just walked away instead. I went up to a random customer and asked her how snakes have sex. I went up to an employee in the ice cream aisle and asked her where the ice cream was. She told me it was right there and I ran away while yelling, "MY LIFE IS A LIE!!!" I shouldn't have done those things. It was fun in the moment, though. I'm guessing that probably rules out a lot of things. I think I still would've done those things even if I hadn't been on that medication. (Or maybe I wouldn't have. I guess I can't really know.) I mean, the effects of that medication were reduced creativity, not being able to feel joy without a specific cause (so no good moods; if there wasn't something making me feel an emotion and I wasn't sad, I just felt neutral and my therapist saw me as this really calm, unemotional person towards the end and was surprised to hear that I'm a feeler in MBTI because she doesn't know how it works and she thought I wasn't emotional enough to be a feeler and I guess maybe that's part of why I didn't care enough to call her to reschedule after I forgot about my last scheduled appointment with her), difficulty recognizing patterns, slow thinking, being easily confused... Nothing that would account for this behavior. It was just my idea of fun. I didn't behave that way on a regular basis, of course. Usually the craziest thing you would see me doing would be sneakily putting a Linux Mint live DVD in a computer at Walmart. That computer ran Linux Mint for a week. (Don't worry, I didn't make any changes to the computer. They just had to remove the DVD and reboot to restore it to its previous state.)


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## melody5697 (Apr 19, 2015)

Anyway, I just really don't think I'm a 9, even if we ignore my past. While I wouldn't exactly call myself assertive, I have no problem saying no to people (well, usually; I'm not sure why I could only say "I don't know" to the guy who sexually assaulted me; EDIT: actually, nobody ever asks anything of me except at work because I hardly have any friends, so I guess there's no way of knowing whether or not I'd have trouble saying no to people), I actually was confronting my roommates at Job Corps about their refusal to let me sleep from the beginning, being obviously angry at my coworker (like, actually raising my voice at her) is something that usually happens at least once a week, I yell at my sister for refusing to contribute to the household, and I was talking to a guy at my synagogue a few weeks ago and I went off on a passionate monologue about why I think that drugs should be legal. (I don't remember how drugs came up.) I also do not normally repress strong emotions. I mean, I've been known to sob openly at work after getting overwhelmed by a conflict with a coworker. And there was ABSOLUTELY a time when I was intentionally dwelling on negative things. Like, I wrote this thing listing everything I'd ever done wrong and insulting myself, and whenever I decided that I didn't feel sufficiently horrible for everything I'd ever done wrong, I would make myself read it and cut myself. (Of course, I was on that medication, and I was also being influenced by another one of my weird things where I was trying to be like a fictional character. In this case, it was Princess Luna from My Little Pony, who tormented herself with nightmares every night to make sure she'd never forgive herself for all the evil she did when she became Nightmare Moon and tried to kill her own sister and make the night last forever. Yeah... I had a pretty weird reaction to that episode.) I don't think I'm a 6, either, since, one, I suddenly don't feel anxious 24/7 anymore and I think maybe I was just feeling that way because I was expecting to and I was just imagining that I'd always felt that way; two, I think I was imagining being hypervigilant; and three, when I DO worry about all the ways things could go wrong, I don't usually actually do anything about it. I still don't think I'm a 4 because I never feel envy and my view of the world in general is positive and I don't think I'm particularly concerned about being unique. And while 7 could possibly explain my behavior in middle school, it obviously doesn't fit. I know that 5 can disintegrate to 7, which could also explain middle school, but I'm clearly not a 5. I'm also obviously not a 1, a 2, a 3, or an 8. I guess enneagram just doesn't work for me???


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## Retsu (Aug 12, 2011)

All of your rebuttals are behaviour based for 9 (irrelevant) and motivation based for the others. That should tell you something, though you're right in that Enneagram doesn't seem to be working for you.
Everything you just said is, frankly, far above my pay grade and I've already said twice I'm not comfortable commenting on it.
I don't believe me commenting any further will be helpful.


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## melody5697 (Apr 19, 2015)

Retsu said:


> All of your rebuttals are behaviour based for 9 (irrelevant) and motivation based for the others. That should tell you something, though you're right in that Enneagram doesn't seem to be working for you.
> Everything you just said is, frankly, far above my pay grade and I've already said twice I'm not comfortable commenting on it.
> I don't believe me commenting any further will be helpful.


Sorry. I honestly didn't think any of the stuff I described in my last few posts was THAT bad (or at least not compared to the other stuff you said you were uncomfortable commenting on), but I guess I'm probably just desensitized. I'll stop replying to this post unless someone else jumps in.


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