# Bow to Lady Gaga



## FlightsOfFancy (Dec 30, 2012)

Oh, and for those that think she can't sing, here she is belting notes that broadway singers would probably struggle to hit:




I feel like some people here are upset that she actually is a phenomenal vocalist with a good technique @_gestalt_ None of the men you listed even sing out. Crooning is easy. She croons here as well.

Also, she handles closed consonants much better than most that you listed. I suppose you think white guy with a guitar = talent tho heh. 

Oh and note the computer equip and piano? Yeah, she does her own production for her own shows. No talent eh?

*Icing on the cake:* This was after 2 hours of playing piano and singing completely live (the New York Times praised her for her vocal stamina), jumping around the stage (you know, actually entertaining as opposed to sitting there---with a guitar). She's not just a musician; she's an entertainer. 

Haters will deal.


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## Orchidion (Jan 3, 2013)

I wonder what the point of this thread is. Do you want affirmation, that she has talent? Or do you want to convince us of her accomplishments?

You came up on several occasions with the fact that renowned magazines and musicians have praised her and that she went to a famous music school. What do you want to achieve with this? Is this some kind of authority-argument? Because they say she is good, she is? Value is not intrinsic. As well in this case, stating that she has talent, in an objective sense, is non-sensical. It is a matter of taste wether she makes good music. When it comes to other parameters like music-theoretical components of her music, we could have a more "objective" debate. Yet, on these respects she is not a mile stone in music history.

So seriously; what is the point? I really wonder. (This is no rhetoric question, please answer)


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## FlightsOfFancy (Dec 30, 2012)

Orchidion said:


> I wonder what the point of this thread is. Do you want affirmation, that she has talent? Or do you want to convince us of her accomplishments?
> 
> You came up on several occasions with the fact that renowned magazines and musicians have praised her and that she went to a famous music school. What do you want to achieve with this? Is this some kind of authority-argument? Because they say she is good, she is? Value is not intrinsic. As well in this case, stating that she has talent, in an objective sense, is non-sensical. It is a matter of taste wether she makes good music. When it comes to other parameters like music-theoretical components of her music, we could have a more "objective" debate. Yet, on these respects she is not a mile stone in music history.
> 
> So seriously; what is the point? I really wonder. (This is no rhetoric question, please answer)


Yes, you were the pretentious one who claimed that simple structures somehow connote inferiority when simple structures have been employed with great success even in classical, so I already know what your idea is (and I made it clear that I gave no shit and want you to stop derailing).

Yet here you are returning.

The point is to expose people to a woman I find highly talented and deserving. This is a music discussion section, so you will deal. 

On second note, singing is subjective to AN EXTENT. As much as you love your music theory, you should know that an inability to maintain a key is indicative of poor singing, either of a faulty ear or poor technique (both usually.) Thus, it is not the fact that singing is completely subjective. Nor is piano playing--I cannot play because I do not have the skill to know how to strike the keys in such a fashion as to create proper chord progressions.

Furthermore, if it's subjective, then your opinion is of no consequence. An institution based on the very music theory you claimed Gaga incapable of processing (ran by people with PhDs and multiple years experience) accepted Ms. Gaga (Germonatta) with open arms upon hearing her vocal and piano.

Personally, what is your point? You have none. You're adding 0 to the discussion. I can deal without the snobbery of classical music lovers, especially ones on the internet that want to discredit the appraisal of a top 10 Music Conservatory.


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## Orchidion (Jan 3, 2013)

FlightsOfFancy said:


> Yes, you were the pretentious one who claimed that simple structures somehow connote inferiority when simple structures have been employed with greater success, so I already know what your idea is (and made it clear that I gave no shit).
> 
> Yet here you are returning.
> 
> ...


Calm down. I am afraid you are perceiving my posts in a far too aggresive manner. You are reading too much into them.

I do not say (and do not think) that simple structures imply musical inferiority. I have reiterated this now a few times. I am saying that I personally think that she is not special. Nothing more. Don´t take it personally.

I acknowledge some of your points. She seems to be fairly versed when it comes to singing.

My point? Expressing my opinon. That´s all. From what I have read of this thread this is the main activity here anyway.

And really, don´t take anything I write personally. I know that I can be blunt and sometimes I express myself in a poor manner, which causes heavy misinterpretations.


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## Maegamikko (Sep 5, 2013)

Lady Gaga. Um. Isn't my thing. She sounds kinda like a French baby, one of those babies that was born addicted to crack cocaine, and doesn't look like somebody I'd want to touch for fear of immediately getting a venereal disease.


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## FlightsOfFancy (Dec 30, 2012)

Orchidion said:


> I dislike pop because there are so-called "artists" like Lady Gaga, not conversely. Unfortunately many members of my family appreciate her, so I know her music. There is nothing special about her songs. To the contrary, structure, harmonies, melodies is the usual format you find in modern pop. It is ordinary music, made with the intention to make money.
> 
> *And in pop only mediocrity prevails, as it is produced for mediocrity. *
> 
> (I do not intend to offend anyone who genuinely enjoys her music, I just want to express my opinion.)


I don't see how you think this is inoffensive. Go up to a musician and tell them that their music is produced for the mediocrity. I don't think I'm misinterpreting you; I think you believe lines like these:



> (I do not intend to offend anyone who genuinely enjoys her music, I just want to express my opinion.)


somehow exempt insult. 

"Classical music is for the snobs"
I hope I didn't offend.

Anyway, it's clear we do not agree on this issue and are failing to communicate for whatever reason. If you find my thread to be utter nonsense, please abstain. I kind of made it thinking people like you would come in so I can subtly troll them because people assume she's pop and therefore talentless. Fell right into the hole. 

If anything, this also serves as a testament to the power of labels. People liking posts about how she needs autotune to sing, when it is obvious that she doesn't live. Why? label.

None of my posts serve one purpose, really.


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## Shahada (Apr 26, 2010)

FlightsOfFancy said:


> On second note, singing is subjective to AN EXTENT. As much as you love your music theory, you should know that an inability to maintain a key is indicative of poor singing, either of a faulty ear or poor technique (both usually.) Thus, it is not the fact that singing is completely subjective.


It _is_ subjective whether you find that particular singing, or whatever instrumentation, pleasing to your ear though. Whatever you might think of punk music (I think its boring and obsolete), its an objective example of a musical culture that is generally not very technically skilled, but has managed to find a lot of staying power because a lot of people find the music pleasing to listen to, or they find that they relate to it on some level, or just appreciate it in general. All of the technical ability in the world doesn't matter if your art doesn't connect with people. Art is about a lot more than technical ability, at least to me. Again, good on Lady Gaga for being skilled at what she does, but knowing that she has perfect pitch or harmony or whatever (I don't even know if she does, I am not very big on music theory) isn't going to make me like her music any more than I'll like Yngwie Malmsteen's music more because I know how hard it is to play those goofy neoclassical guitar solos. 99% of the time I'd rather hear Future garbling through his auto-tune than listen to a Lady Gaga song, because while Future can't sing for shit in a technical sense (and that's arguably half his gimmick even), I just find his music more interesting and creative than Gaga's.


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## Aya the Abysswalker (Mar 23, 2012)

FlightsOfFancy said:


> I appreciate you guys' taste, but can we stay on topic?


Aren't we staying on topic by saying we should bow to someone else that's not Gaga?


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## Aya the Abysswalker (Mar 23, 2012)

FlightsOfFancy said:


> I suppose you think white guy with a guitar = talent tho heh.







I will let you to your conclusions now.


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## FlightsOfFancy (Dec 30, 2012)

@*Orchidion *sorry if I was rude; I have to talk to music theory guys a lot so eh. projection a lil. But "mediocrity" isn't very neutral. No hard feeling. @Shahada I really want people to appreciate her technical aptitude. I don't hear many pop stars doing their own production, writing, sets, costumes, etc. I do find her quite talented in as much of an objective sense is possible for something inherently subjective. @AyaSullivan The beginning was amazing, but then I couldn't understand the language and went . If you wanna use that loophole you have to at least say it's not about Gaga so you're at least on topic ;p


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## Aya the Abysswalker (Mar 23, 2012)

FlightsOfFancy said:


> @_AyaSullivan_ The beginning was amazing, but then I couldn't understand the language and went . If you wanna use that loophole you have to at least say it's not about Gaga so you're at least on topic ;p


It's Japanese, I saw him live, he's an incredible person and musician.


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## Shahada (Apr 26, 2010)

FlightsOfFancy said:


> @Shahada I really want people to appreciate her technical aptitude. I don't hear many pop stars doing their own production, writing, sets, costumes, etc. I do find her quite talented in as much of an objective sense is possible for something inherently subjective.



It's all good, I don't mind you plugging an artist you like, just weighing in myself is all.


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## Brian1 (May 7, 2011)

I don't mean to ruffle feathers,but I watched Poker Face, I've read the Born This Way presses. She appeals to a gay crowd. There's nothing wrong in that. However, the gay market is a niche market. And there will be a lot of people who say this is not for me. This would be different than oh say, Led Zeppelin. It's ironic that the OP pushing Lady Gaga, has a Pink Floyd Signature. Pink Floyd is a great example of this. Everyone knows about Dark Side of the Moon, and the Wall, but, not a lot of people know Alan's Psychedelic Breakfast, or Echoes, or Bike...A Syd Barrett composition. And speaking of the Gay population, on this board, and niche market, Pink Floyd, and Arnold Layne, which I believe is a song about a transvestite. It's safe to say, that for a while, Pink Floyd was this real arty,surrealistic, band that focused on sound. Not a lot of consumers are going to go for that. The art students are going to go for that, I'm an art student. So I enjoy the more out there Floyd. And that's who Floyd were trying to reach...


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## The Scorched Earth (May 17, 2010)

Her newest song, Applause, is pretty cool. Can't wait to hear the rest of the album.


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## HypoTempes (Nov 25, 2013)

If she's actually as talented as you make her out to be....Then tell me, why does she look like an Anime character utilising the music of Madonna while she dances like Jackson ?

Well REAL original now isn't it. 

Oh and wouldn't surprise me if the "fashion" she designs is also from a obscure Anime.


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## Lemxn (Aug 17, 2013)

This thread is pure irony. "Bow to Lady Gaga" but the only one who did that is the one who opened this thing. I'm not going to discuss anything. I love her, she's one of my favorite artist.


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## Aya the Abysswalker (Mar 23, 2012)

HypoTempes said:


> If she's actually as talented as you make her out to be....Then tell me, why does she look like an Anime character utilising the music of Madonna while she dances like Jackson ?
> 
> Well REAL original now isn't it.
> 
> Oh and wouldn't surprise me if the "fashion" she designs is also from a obscure Anime.


I wouldn't be surprised if she started using clothes from mangas and animes likes:









Fist of the North Star (Hokuto no Ken)









JoJo's Bizarre Adventure









Revolutionary Girl Utena

And whatever looks strange and fashionable.


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## gestalt (Feb 15, 2011)

I loved it when she used her talent to decide to wear a meat dress.

I found this artistic statement to be resplendent with significant meaning concerning the human condition.

Okay, it wasnt. She's just a shock value saleswoman with even less talent than the fake artists she stole everything from (manson, madonna).


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## Kabosu (Mar 31, 2012)

I think it's that in like 2009-2010 she was basically fresh and pretty much the best pure pop artist at the time.
But Born This Way album wasn't an upswing and even now we're getting better pop songs on the radio. She'll need to outgrow her flashy stuff and write less generic songs if people are still going to care. But you have to remember, Britney Spears' career has lasted for 15 years and no one back then could have expected that.

I don't hate pure pop and find people citing hip to like pop stuff as a defense for I really don't hate all pop, but I think most of her detractors in here have brought up a good point. That said, style is sometimes substance.


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## Pancreatic Pandora (Aug 16, 2013)

Her new album is cool, though I find the concept pretentious and poor in its execution.


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## The Scorched Earth (May 17, 2010)

Pancreatic Pandora said:


> Her new album is cool, though I find the concept pretentious and poor in its execution.


I like Artpop a lot but it is a bit gaudy.


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## Lemxn (Aug 17, 2013)

Pancreatic Pandora said:


> Her new album is cool, though I find the concept pretentious and poor in its execution.


Agree.
I really like ARTPOP but I don't see anything special in it. It's not like the other album, it's not epic.


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## Jetsune Lobos (Apr 23, 2012)

Lady O.W. Bro said:


> l liked her for about 5 minutes in 2010.
> 
> You're right, she isn't ''awful'' but that seems to be the way music is judged these days.
> 
> ...



People are so afraid of critiquing someone elses tastes, let alone _witnessing_ it. The moment you take a step in that direction people start trying to immediately turn you away with a pat "Let's just agree to disagree!"

However you're infinitely more likely to get attacked by the myriad of neckbeards sporting the white cape who just jump your throat and scream "OMG STOP RAPING HER YOU LYRICAL SERIAL RAPIST"

And besides why should artists try to redefine or go beyond when they can meet a standard and be tossed an entitlement bone? (In the rock industry I think that's actually just less money with the addition of a disco biscuit)


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