# Have you ever negotiated your salary?



## fihe (Aug 30, 2012)

I just graduated about six months ago and have never negotiated my salary at any job I've had. but then again, the only jobs I've had without a set hourly/daily wage were in retail, and I don't think people negotiate on an hourly wage for jobs like that (unless it's a manager position, I guess). I've been reading online about how women often don't negotiate their salary when they get a job, but myself being completely ignorant of how "grown-up" jobs work, I'm not sure how to go about this, supposing I ever make it to the interview stage. I feel like because the economy is so bad, employers are looking to hire the "lowest bidder", and I'm worried that negotiating a salary may make them not want to hire me, and prefer someone who will just take the lowest wage being offered, as long as there is not a vast difference in qualifications.

this is probably not too related, but I have an interview on Wednesday for an after-school program position, which happens to be held in various locations throughout my area. I have no idea what the pay would be for the position, and I'm not sure if I should ask. I'm mostly doing it for the experience, since I already have another job. I would hope that whatever pay I get is enough to reimburse me for gas, because when they said I'd be going to locations near my home, I'm not sure just how close that would be; perhaps up to 30 minutes away.


----------



## jbking (Jun 4, 2010)

There have been more than a few times that I've negotiated my salary. There are a couple of different ways I'd suggest considering salary:

1. My expenses - What does it cost for me to live my life? That's how much money I have to make and thus this determines what salary I'd like to have. There can be some tweaks as some aspects of compensation are non-financial like time off, health benefits, etc. This can help give a starting point here.

2. Industry standards for your area - This would take a little Googling as well as knowing what specialty you have. I can remember talking to recruiters when I was a recent graduate to get an idea of what salary seemed reasonable. Course I was working in IT in the late 1990s at the time so things may have been a bit different compared to now.

Ask The Headhunter® | Nick Corcodilos – How to negotiate salary through a headhunter may be a useful article about salary negotiations if you use a headhunter.

A few other tips I'd suggest:

1. Have a range in mind rather than a specific figure. By giving a narrow range, e.g. $30-35K or $60-65K, this allows the employer to pick their value which could be at the upper end, middle or lower end depending on what they are prepared to do. After all, if a place thinks you want too much, they can always counter-offer with something a bit lower and see if that works.

2. Know your own minimum amount. This is to say what is the lowest salary you could take and be OK doing the job.

3. There is the idea that the first person to state a number will lose. While I understand the arguments to this, my strategy around this is to offer a value a little higher than what I want so that in being counter-offered I'll be close to what I really wanted in the end.

4. Once a salary is agreed, know when this may get changed. Would there be a review after you complete a probationary period? Would there be annual reviews? This is something to ask so you can know when it would happen though also to show interest in how the organization handles this tricky issue.


----------



## Devin87 (May 15, 2011)

Every job I've had lately, the salary was non-negotable. Salary was set by steps and based on your experience and education, so you're at a certain step and that's it. I like it that way. Keeps things fair and straight forward.


----------



## fihe (Aug 30, 2012)

jbking said:


> There have been more than a few times that I've negotiated my salary. There are a couple of different ways I'd suggest considering salary:
> 
> 1. My expenses - What does it cost for me to live my life? That's how much money I have to make and thus this determines what salary I'd like to have. There can be some tweaks as some aspects of compensation are non-financial like time off, health benefits, etc. This can help give a starting point here.
> 
> ...


the only places I know of that list salaries are the Occupational Outlook Handbook, NJ Teacher Search (obviously applicable to teachers in New Jersey only), and I just discovered payscale.com right this second 

I wonder if one should go for a lower-than-average salary if they have a...non-traditional background in the field their potential new job is in. I also wonder if independent study in a certain subject is a suitable substitute for a college degree, or at least, a specific major. I've been thinking about going to grad school because lately I've been considering a career in science (whether it's teaching or being an actual scientist) but I'll need experience working in a laboratory! however, if I wanted to study something that didn't require specific fieldwork or equipment, I would hope that independent study would count for _something_.

I'm not sure about other states, but here in NJ, some people do what's called the "alternate route" in preparation to be teachers. instead of going through a traditional teacher education program at a university, they simply have at least 30 credits in their subject and then take the Praxis test so that they can become certified teachers. thanks to NJ Teacher Search, it would be very easy for me to find my target salary if applying for a teaching job in my own state, but if I change fields, it may be a little more difficult to find what kind of salary is suitable.


----------



## frenchie (Jul 7, 2011)

Yes.

Shoot for the MOON. I started at 80,000 for every job and talked it down. The worst they can do is giggle a little bit and start talking lower.


----------



## jbking (Jun 4, 2010)

fihe said:


> the only places I know of that list salaries are the Occupational Outlook Handbook, NJ Teacher Search (obviously applicable to teachers in New Jersey only), and I just discovered payscale.com right this second


Did you try typing something like this into Google for New Jersey teacher salary data: 
New Jersey teacher salary

That gave me various results including Teacher Salary in Newark, NJ | Indeed.com and New Jersey Teacher Salary | Teaching Salaries in NJ | Teacher Portal just to take a couple of results which while each result may be slightly questionable, I'd probably take at least a handful of data points, throw out the ends and average the rest. There are more than a few sites out there that can give some data though there can be the question of digging through the results.


----------



## Death Persuades (Feb 17, 2012)

I get paid by the hour and I had to negotiate my last raise with my boss. I honestly thought they'd give me no more than 50 cents, but I highballed it anyway. I said 1.50. I got 1.25


----------



## Devalight (May 27, 2012)

Yes, I simply said I had to have X number of dollars to pay my mortgage and I had to have a certain amount or I could not work there.

Strangely enough, I got it, now only regret I should have asked for more.


----------



## fihe (Aug 30, 2012)

Devalight said:


> Yes, I simply said I had to have X number of dollars to pay my mortgage and I had to have a certain amount or I could not work there.
> 
> Strangely enough, I got it, now only regret I should have asked for more.


that's really cool. but I feel like it would be stupid if I were to basically say that I should be paid more so I can move out of my parents' house and my uncle could have my room instead of living in our basement.  I'm sure an employer couldn't care any less if I live with my parents forever. I feel like everyone wants a robot slave.

what I'd (probably) actually say is that I believe that competitive pay attracts competitive workers, and that a potential employee who is confident in his/her abilities will want to be properly compensated according to the quality and/or quantity of his/her labor. of course, one's résumé (hopefully even if past jobs are not in the same industry) and references will vouch for that.

I wonder if it's problematic that I feel that I need to say _why_ I deserve to be paid well  without this, I think an employer would try to challenge me and "bid down" the salary.


----------



## Thomas60 (Aug 7, 2011)

Employers don't give a sh** about philosophy of competitive pay gets you competitive workers. People are expected to work, be reliable and are ideally chosen for the right fit. Paying extra gets you the employee that would otherwise walk away, a feely argument such as that will get a 'we understand but that's a competitive as we can get' or if your lucky and extra 1-3% designed to show 'willingness - stretching themselves'.

Demonstrate that lesser experienced people are are the same bracket, show you've done your research (glassdoor.com at worst, company business report to estimate a salary that won't give them a negative net margin for your department) and why your a better fit than what else is on the market... definately reference other offers that are just as competitive or more-so to see if they will 'buy you out' ['x company is willing to give this, several are appealing and there are different merits could you make an offer that is in that ball-park range].


----------



## fihe (Aug 30, 2012)

@Thomas60, thank you for your reply. those sound like good ideas, but I wonder how an inexperienced person could use those arguments. I don't think I could compete with someone who has years of experience on me, and without that, I wonder if I still have any chance at being hired, let alone defending a better salary.



Thomas60 said:


> Employers don't give a sh** about philosophy of competitive pay gets you competitive workers. People are expected to work, be reliable and are ideally chosen for the right fit. Paying extra gets you the employee that would otherwise walk away, a feely argument such as that will get a 'we understand but that's a competitive as we can get' or if your lucky and extra 1-3% designed to show 'willingness - stretching themselves'.


in other words, they want robot slaves, right?
I wish I knew how to build robots.


----------



## jbking (Jun 4, 2010)

fihe said:


> I don't think I could compete with someone who has years of experience on me, and without that, I wonder if I still have any chance at being hired, let alone defending a better salary.


While it may appear to be a competition, I'd advise against taking that view. Instead, look at the value you'll bring to the organization that is worth how much an hour? For the gifts, talents, time and energy you'll bring, how much impact do you think you'll have? Know that you have great value to deliver and leave discussing salary till the end as that is worth discussing once you are near an offer stage I'd think. When I worked with recruiters I'd often state a salary range as it would help them narrow down what positions made sense for me. However, with companies directly hiring, I prefer to push back on the salary till near the end as I would like to believe that most organizations will do a reasonable job and not screw me over. Perhaps that is naive though if I'm ok with a salary of $x/year, who cares if my peers are making 2-3 times that with 5-10 times the stress? There is something to be said for the working environment and culture that is also a factor in determining where one wants to work.

If you think you are going in as a piece of meat, then chances are things aren't going to be good. If you think you are going in as a rock star, then you may well do better. Know that you will do great things for this organization and rock on!


----------



## Razare (Apr 21, 2009)

fihe said:


> and prefer someone who will just take the lowest wage being offered, as long as there is not a vast difference in qualifications.


You specify the salary you're looking for... it's usually asked directly to you at some point. If you have to specify what you want on paper, just say negotiable. If they can't give you what you ask, they'll give you a lower offer... but that lower offer may not be rock bottom. If you say you're looking for 35k, and they come at you with 30k... well that's better than 28 or 29k... which maybe they would have given you if you just left it up to them.


----------

