# Ti-dominant or Ne-dominant?



## Serpent (Aug 6, 2015)

I'm absurdly indecisive by nature, but I can say with certainty that I'm an xNTP. 

Question is, am I Ti-dominant (INTP) or Ne-dominant (ENTP)?

I'd rather have examples or analogies than descriptions or definitions at this point. Like, can you offer two scenarios and ask me to choose between them?


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## Serpent (Aug 6, 2015)

Anyone?


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## Robopop (Jun 15, 2010)

INTPs and ENTPs can be pretty hard to tell apart if you feel ambiverted, especially since a lot of ENTPs feel they are not social extroverts, it would help to decide whether you identify more with the IxxP or ExxP temperaments. ExxPs need and live for constant stimulation and can sometimes over extend themselves whereas IxxPs are more into focusing on one thing at a time although they too can be very inattentive if they are not engaged in something they find interesting. 

You could decide if you identify more with inferior Fe or inferior Si, having inferior Si would mean less stability and personal security in your life for the sake of experimentation and stimulation seeking, inferior Fe would mean having a hard time maintaining interpersonal connections and upholding group solidarity, IxTPs are notorious for having a aversion to what they perceive as group think.


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## Serpent (Aug 6, 2015)

Robopop said:


> INTPs and ENTPs can be pretty hard to tell apart if you feel ambiverted, especially since a lot of ENTPs feel they are not social extroverts, it would help to decide whether you identify more with the IxxP or ExxP temperaments. ExxPs need and live for constant stimulation and can sometimes over extend themselves whereas IxxPs are more into focusing on one thing at a time although they too can be very inattentive if they are not engaged in something they find interesting.
> 
> You could decide if you identify more with inferior Fe or inferior Si, having inferior Si would mean *less stability and personal security in your life for the sake of experimentation and stimulation seeking,* inferior Fe would mean *having a hard time maintaining interpersonal connections and upholding group solidarity*, IxTPs are notorious for having a aversion to what they perceive as group think.


I identify with both. I can be a hardcore hipster one day, and agree with the majority the next day.


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## Kynx (Feb 6, 2012)

Which perspective is the absolute, deciding factor? Intuition or conscious, careful consideration? 

Which do you trust the most? 

How often do you act on your idea's? 

I find that I spend more time considering if possibilities are really a good idea than Ne doms seem to. From my experience, they have often started implementing their idea before they discover if it will work or not.


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## XDS (Sep 4, 2013)

ScarrDragon said:


> I identify with both. I can be a hardcore hipster one day, and agree with the majority the next day.


Do you agree with the majority or does the majority agree with you?


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## Serpent (Aug 6, 2015)

Neverontime said:


> Which perspective is the absolute, deciding factor? Intuition or conscious, careful consideration?
> 
> Which do you trust the most?
> 
> ...


I research on my intuitive decisions. So, yes, probably careful consideration. Although, I'm more inclined to act impulsively than act cautiously. 

The majority argues with me. Now that I think about, I don't even care whether I agree with the majority or not, as long as it's beneficial to me. Sometimes, I won't even consider them.


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## randomshoes (Dec 11, 2013)

Neverontime said:


> I find that I spend more time considering if possibilities are really a good idea than Ne doms seem to. From my experience, they have often started implementing their idea before they discover if it will work or not.


Oh yeah. We are not the type to think things through before we do them. One small-scale thing that I've found is pretty universal for Ne doms is that we don't think before we speak, we think _while_ we speak. That's why our speech can be so confusing: we're changing directions, ideas, and sometimes opinions mid-sentence. INxPs have a complete grasp of the possibilities but they pick one at a time and explain it, and then pick another one. So their speech is actually dramatically more organized.



ScarrDragon said:


> I research on my intuitive decisions. So, yes, probably careful consideration.


This sounds like someone who leads with a judging function.



> Although, I'm more inclined to act impulsively than act cautiously.


This sounds like someone who's perceiving. So my vote would be INTP.


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## Serpent (Aug 6, 2015)

randomshoes said:


> Oh yeah. We are not the type to think things through before we do them. One small-scale thing that I've found is pretty universal for Ne doms is that we don't think before we speak, we think _while_ we speak. That's why our speech can be so confusing: we're changing directions, ideas, and sometimes opinions mid-sentence. INxPs have a complete grasp of the possibilities but they pick one at a time and explain it, and then pick another one. So their speech is actually dramatically more organized.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I would identify myself as an INTP, but I also think while I speak. While I do think a lot before I speak, what I speak often turns out to be largely different from what I was thinking. I can also relate to unpredictability in speech. I can change my views diametrically within a single sentence.


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## electricky (Feb 18, 2011)

If you are truly an ambiverted NTP type 7, this is understandably tricky. Even if you seem like an ENTP, it would still be possible that you are a rare INTP type 7. Have you read up on the "Was that really me?" articles to see if you can perhaps determine whether you have more problems in the realm of Fe or in Si?


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## Kynx (Feb 6, 2012)

Have you taken the sloan/big 5 test? If so, what were the results?


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## Serpent (Aug 6, 2015)

I'll be perusing the 'Form of the Inferior' articles in a matter of minutes.

Which Big 5 test would you recommend?


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## Serpent (Aug 6, 2015)

Extroversion||||||||||||||50%Orderliness||||||24%Emotional Stability||||||||||||||||64%Accommodation||||||26%Inquisitiveness||||||||||||||||70%




The Big Five is currently the most accepted personality model in the scientific community. The Big Five emerged from the work of multiple independent scientists/researchers starting in the 1950s who using different techniques obtained similar results. Those results were that there are five distinct personality traits/dimensions. Here are your results on each dimension:


*Extroversion* results were medium which suggests you average somewhere in between being assertive and social and being withdrawn and solitary.
*Orderliness* results were low which suggests you are overly flexible, random, scattered, and fun seeking at the expense too often of structure, reliability, work ethic, and long term accomplishment.
*Emotional Stability* results were moderately high which suggests you are relaxed, calm, secure, and optimistic.
*Accommodation* results were low which suggests you are overly selfish, uncooperative, and difficult at the expense too often of the well being of others.
*Inquisitiveness* results were high which suggests you are very intellectual, curious, imaginative but possibly not very practical.
Your *Global5/SLOAN* type is *SCUEI*
Your Primary type is *Unstructured*

I relate to the inferior form article for INTP slightly more than I relate to the one for ENTP. A few months ago, after getting hit on my left shoulder with a football and sustaining a persistent pain in the area for a couple of hours I became worried that I might be experiencing the preliminary symptoms of a heart attack. I was thankfully wrong. I can also relate to the example where a girl, after having her suggestion repudiated by her teacher, approached her armed with overwhelming facts and research the next day in order to prove the teacher wrong.


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## XDS (Sep 4, 2013)

ScarrDragon said:


> The majority argues with me. Now that I think about, I don't even care whether I agree with the majority or not, as long as it's beneficial to me. Sometimes, I won't even consider them.


Leaning toward inferior Fe (INTP).

Would you be more or less social if you could interact with everyone anonymously?


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## Serpent (Aug 6, 2015)

XDS said:


> Leaning toward inferior Fe (INTP).
> 
> Would you be more or less social if you could interact with everyone anonymously?


More social. Today, I could barely make eye contact or conversation with a girl I've been chatting with on Facebook for quite a while. I'm the ultimate extrovert... behind the computer.


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## Kynx (Feb 6, 2012)

Since there's clearly nothing definite here to go on, I can only offer my personal opinion, which is entp. I'll explain why I think so. Firstly, I believe that extraverted types are more likely to mistakenly consider themselves introverted, than vice-versa. The nature of introversion makes the distinction between e & i, more readily noticeable. Most introverts are keenly aware of being 'on the outside' because extraversion is easily observable and they're used to seeing the inner/outer differences.



> Now that I think about, I don't even care whether I agree with the majority or not, as long as it's beneficial to me. Sometimes, I won't even consider them.


I believe an intp would have noted a long time ago how his judgements are received by others and already spent time contemplating the reasons why. 

Finally, I think N doms (possibly P doms in general) are more often the ones to be unsure which type fits them best. Since their perception guides their judgement and I notice this with N doms more than others.


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## Serpent (Aug 6, 2015)

Neverontime said:


> Since there's clearly nothing definite here to go on, I can only offer my personal opinion, which is entp. I'll explain why I think so. Firstly, I believe that extraverted types are more likely to mistakenly consider themselves introverted, than vice-versa. The nature of introversion makes the distinction between e & i, more readily noticeable. Most introverts are keenly aware of being 'on the outside' because extraversion is easily observable and they're used to seeing the inner/outer differences.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Below is an assembly of all the What's My Type questionnaires that I've attempted since my first post in this forum.

http://personalitycafe.com/whats-my-personality-type/174034-retrogression-back-square-one-again.html
http://personalitycafe.com/entp-forum-visionaries/164459-banality-restored-entp-intp.html
http://personalitycafe.com/whats-my-personality-type/142871-please-help-indecisive-friend.html
http://personalitycafe.com/istp-forum-mechanics/157913-fellow-istps-am-i-one-you.html
http://personalitycafe.com/whats-my-personality-type/161404-discovery-my-identity.html (Ignore post #10. It was a secondary account that I used to renew the thread, in order to ensure more replies. However, the explanation in the post does describe me. So, basically, that 'friend' is me.)


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## Psychopomp (Oct 3, 2012)

Given the xNTP dichotomy, which I don't think is entirely unreasonable:



ScarrDragon said:


> I would identify myself as an INTP, but I also think while I speak. While I do think a lot before I speak, what I speak often turns out to be largely different from what I was thinking. I can also relate to unpredictability in speech. I can change my views diametrically within a single sentence.


I also think while I speak. Very very much so. Preparation is sometimes wasted as the real time creative act of communication reforms my thoughts as they come out of me. I have never needed time to prepare my thoughts. I will not say this is typical of an INTP, however I am definitely an INTP (rather than an ENTP). I have also changed my mind completely mid-sentence and did not need to stop the thought to accommodate this. However, it is always that Ti checks for consistency and Si references experience. It is simply that Ne allows this to happen very very very quickly. And, if I may say so, quite cleverly. Also, sometimes quite wrongly. But, cleverly wrongly at least. 



ScarrDragon said:


> I relate to the inferior form article for INTP slightly more than I relate to the one for ENTP. A few months ago, after getting hit on my left shoulder with a football and sustaining a persistent pain in the area for a couple of hours I became worried that I might be experiencing the preliminary symptoms of a heart attack. I was thankfully wrong. I can also relate to the example where a girl, after having her suggestion repudiated by her teacher, approached her armed with overwhelming facts and research the next day in order to prove the teacher wrong.


That second example sounds more ENTP to me. I think, at least from my experience, the INTP would be more inclined to be passive on the subject. I personally would just avoid the situation altogether. I would not be socially minded enough to either feel comfortable enough or care enough to engage unless it was deemed critical. 



ScarrDragon said:


> More social. Today, I could barely make eye contact or conversation with a girl I've been chatting with on Facebook for quite a while. I'm the ultimate extrovert... behind the computer.


I've seen and heard this a lot from ENTPs, for what it is worth. Extraverts can certainly be shy, especially in the situation you describe. 



Neverontime said:


> Since there's clearly nothing definite here to go on, I can only offer my personal opinion, which is entp. I'll explain why I think so. Firstly, I believe that extraverted types are more likely to mistakenly consider themselves introverted, than vice-versa. The nature of introversion makes the distinction between e & i, more readily noticeable. Most introverts are keenly aware of being 'on the outside' because extraversion is easily observable and they're used to seeing the inner/outer differences.
> 
> I believe an intp would have noted a long time ago how his judgements are received by others and already spent time contemplating the reasons why.
> 
> Finally, I think N doms (possibly P doms in general) are more often the ones to be unsure which type fits them best. Since their perception guides their judgement and I notice this with N doms more than others.


This is essentially what my response would have been had Neverontime not anachronistically stolen it from me.... even going so far as to steal statements and thoughts from me that I would not have initially considered had I not first read them here. How devious. 

Still, it's more of a vibe that I could attempt to put into words, than a definitive data-driven logical process. Given this strict dichotomy, however, I'd side with ENTP.


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## Arya (Oct 17, 2012)

arkigos said:


> Given the xNTP dichotomy, which I don't think is entirely unreasonable:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree with everything you said, and I'm another INTP. I often think while speaking, which has led to my ENTP friend picking on the horrible malaprops I use. The difference between me and him, is that he can think and speak without stuttering and choosing all the wrong words. I can't do that, because Ti doesn't work that fast, and my Ne isn't as good as his. And panicking over possibly having a heart attack sounds way more like inferior Si and even lower Se, so I have to agree that it sounds far more like an ENTP.


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## Serpent (Aug 6, 2015)

But would an ENTP be predisposed to compare the present with the past? I've noticed that I often compare the present with the past and predict the future based on the comparison whenever I make a suggestion or proposition. It's as if I have this melancholy when it comes to thinking about the past. I hate getting stuck in the past or details, I like moving on even if the problem is terrifying. But I do tend to get stuck in the past via nostalgia.


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## Arya (Oct 17, 2012)

ScarrDragon said:


> But would an ENTP be predisposed to compare the present with the past? I've noticed that I often compare the present with the past and predict the future based on the comparison whenever I make a suggestion or proposition. It's as if I have this melancholy when it comes to thinking about the past. I hate getting stuck in the past or details, I like moving on even if the problem is terrifying. But I do tend to get stuck in the past via nostalgia.


No, they aren't. INTPs are more likely to do that because they have slightly higher Si. That's not to say an ENTP would never do that, but ENTPs generally like to leave the past in the past and not dwell on it. What you're describing sound exactly what I do as an INTP. For an ENTP, Si is very unused unless they've gotten to the point of developing it at all. But they are Si users so I suppose it could be possible. Does that happen to you a lot? Or is it an occasional thing?


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## Rethink (Apr 18, 2012)

Im in the same situation as you, but have concluded that force-fitting myself into a full 4-letter type is completely irrelevant when taking consideration to what my actual goals are.

Have you reflected on the purpose behind your want to identify?

As a theoretical frame for a psychological structure, I personally think this system is useful for understanding your functional preferences and spotting weaknesses. But what purpose does it fill beyond this? One might be to assist an individual's subconscious need for identification with an external group, but here I would like to suggest that - when we are drawn to this point - we begin to put up barriers for true psychological integration, since you are in effect framing yourself and thus limiting yourself.

-

I am an NTP because I have an ambiverted nature, and I am a P because I haven't developed enough J in my life. Thus: I currently strive to become a NT.

Through my practice with meditation, I am learning to become more and more aware and appreciative of the current moment.
In due time, this practice will reduce me to a T.


Am I making sense?


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## Serpent (Aug 6, 2015)

Arya said:


> No, they aren't. INTPs are more likely to do that because they have slightly higher Si. That's not to say an ENTP would never do that, but ENTPs generally like to leave the past in the past and not dwell on it. What you're describing sound exactly what I do as an INTP. For an ENTP, Si is very unused unless they've gotten to the point of developing it at all. But they are Si users so I suppose it could be possible. Does that happen to you a lot? Or is it an occasional thing?


Lately, a lot. But maybe that's just because I'm currently under a lot of stress and pressure. The last few months of high school can be terrifying. Usually, I'm only susceptible to this when I'm unhappy with the present, stressed or simply bored.

I wrote this a while ago. What do you think?




> Right now, the only thing preventing me from identifying myself as an ENTP is my relationship with Si. I know I'm an extrovert (albeit, a socially awkward/anxious one) because I definitely get energized by social interaction and the external world. Now, a few years ago, I was suffering from severe depression. I had made some bad decisions and I regreted them. These are the characeteristics I exhibited during that phase.





> - Getting nostalgic about the past
> - Rationalizing why the past is better than the present
> - Rejecting new people and changes
> - Refusing to part with old furniture and objects in your residence
> ...


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## Arya (Oct 17, 2012)

ScarrDragon said:


> Lately, a lot. But maybe that's just because I'm currently under a lot of stress and pressure. The last few months of high school can be terrifying. Usually, I'm only susceptible to this when I'm unhappy with the present, stressed or simply bored.
> 
> I wrote this a while ago. What do you think?


I'll actually go with ENTP on this, because that doesn't sound like decent Si at all. That sounds like skewed Si focusing on unimportant things like a fridge..... I can still see an INTP going into that sort of mode though, although I wouldn't call it decent Si. I can't imagine any high Si user using it for that purpose. They'd have a far more developed use of it. More like the ENTP or INTP finding that their other functions aren't working for them in a high stress situation, so they try to use Si, but it's very poorly developed, particularly for the ENTP, and the way they use it is just..... awkward.... I guess I think it's possible you could be an ENTP, and I'm not seeing decent Si usage here. You might be using it when you're stressed, but that doesn't mean you are using it well.


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## randomshoes (Dec 11, 2013)

@ScarrDragon

Actually, I'm changing my vote. ENTP. What you've been describing sounds exactly like my experience of Si. I've been wondering recently if excessive nostalgia is a feature specifically of inferior Si.


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## Word Dispenser (May 18, 2012)

ENTP. 

Just to copy everyone else. <3

I'm gonna try not to personalize this, though-- Just because I do nostalgia, doesn't mean my experience of it will be identical.

Ultimately, I recommend checking out socionics to be sure. But, the complexity of it seems to ward people off from taking that advice.


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## Old Intern (Nov 20, 2012)

@_ScarrDragon_ I might have considered myself introverted in the traditional, social definition. But trolling INTP, and INTJ threads I could see that I prefer less depth or detail. I may want to know and understand some things in depth (maybe to a fault in the detail direction on some things) but not as a serial specialist?

I like to make wheels turn on projects with other people, not a high volume of people. I like new experiences that may include different levels of relationships, and not super close with too many. I think of ENTP as wanting the 50ft overview and maybe ENTJ wanting 100ft? While an INTP wants to get all the way into the inside of whatever they are into.

I can be on a kick of a few things and then need to move on or expand in a new direction, but INTP’s want successive mastery, though not at the intensity level of an INTJ who would maybe think mastery means a lifetime investment?

Nostalgia - can't that just sometimes be it's own thing, not a function? Its a function if its part of your day to day but sometimes you just have reasons to think back or sort of re-live something.

Spelling? I never minded spelling tests as a kid, but hate thinking about spelling when I have a head full of ideas - spelling is a nuisance (si low piority). Thank God for Spell check


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## Urameshi (Jan 30, 2014)

This was a great post I can certainly see a lot of the ENTP influences in the OP, I think that his reserved / analytical approach might be part of his enneagram stack (type 5w6) rather than dominant Ti.


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## Serpent (Aug 6, 2015)

While I'm almost wholly assured that I'm an ENTP at this point, I thought it would be important to notify you about this persistent behavioral idiosyncrasy of mine. 

I have noticed that in social situations, I find it hard to tune people out, unless the situation is terribly boring (this happens almost always in high school, though). This mostly happens whenever I'm being socially anxious or self-conscious. I try to withdraw into my own world, but my brain keeps switching me back to the external world. I want to listen to my own thoughts, but I can't help listening to what the people in my vicinity are saying, especially if I know them. For example, yesterday, I was in a party where I was anxious and did not want people to see or talk to me. Therefore, I tried to get lost in my thoughts in order to tune them out and not worry about them, but I could not do it. I had to see what was going on, even if I wasn't necessarily interested. Even if I'm silent by virtue of my social anxiety, I'm processing the external world in my mind. I also don't last long in isolation (unless there's internet or I'm home), no matter how much I lust for it. In the aforementioned situation, when I did finally escape the party and entered solitude for a while, I felt relieved but I also felt unsatisfied. I felt as if I was missing something (or everything). I went back after three minutes. Then I escaped again after another few minutes. This cycle continued until the party ended or we started playing soccer. I was one of the last to leave.

My narcissistic idealistic dreams often center around me being the center of attention. But when time calls for it, I withdraw and go invisible because I'm afraid of messing up or embarrassing myself or god knows what. Funny, I entertain the idea of being the center of attention when I'm alone.


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## Planisphere (Apr 24, 2012)

Tertiary functions are not the 'magnetic' function in the stack: that job belongs to the inferior function. If you are excessively nostalgic, that would be identifiable with inferior Si. Being drawn to 'warm', harmonious environments is inferior Fe, which also leads to excessive infatuation. Determining your inferior function can be surprisingly easier than determining the dominant, since the inferior is almost always a function that gives us our largely unconscious desires.

What I find ironic is the assumption in this thread of dominant Ti being far better at presenting organized thoughts. Jung himself described introverted rational functions as being far less likely to pay attention to the presentation of their thoughts than an extroverted rational. The reason Ti and Fi are considered 'awkward' in conversation is because their goal is on organizing thoughts, not presenting them. When we speak, our thoughts may be organized, but our wording may be as messy as any stereotypical 'extrovert'.


* *






> Besides, teaching has, at bottom, little interest for him, except when it accidentally provides him with a theoretical problem. He is a poor teacher, because while teaching his thought is engaged with the actual material, and will not be satisfied with its mere presentation.


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## Dezir (Nov 25, 2013)

ScarrDragon said:


> I'm absurdly indecisive by nature, but I can say with certainty that I'm an xNTP.
> 
> Question is, am I Ti-dominant (INTP) or Ne-dominant (ENTP)?
> 
> I'd rather have examples or analogies than descriptions or definitions at this point. Like, can you offer two scenarios and ask me to choose between them?


You could talk to people for hours without getting tierd ?
Yes - ENTP
No - INTP


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## Serpent (Aug 6, 2015)

Dezir said:


> You could talk to people for hours without getting tierd ?
> Yes - ENTP
> No - INTP


If the person in question is boring or annoying, probably not. 
I can talk for hours. I once spent five hours talking to one of my classmates... online, so that probably does not count.


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## Planisphere (Apr 24, 2012)

ScarrDragon said:


> Therefore, I tried to get lost in my thoughts in order to tune them out and not worry about them, but I could not do it. I had to see what was going on, even if I wasn't necessarily interested. Even if I'm silent by virtue of my social anxiety, I'm processing the external world in my mind. I also don't last long in isolation (unless there's internet or I'm home), no matter how much I lust for it. In the aforementioned situation, when I did finally escape the party and entered solitude for a while, I felt relieved but I also felt unsatisfied. I felt as if I was missing something (or everything). I went back after three minutes. Then I escaped again after another few minutes. This cycle continued until the party ended or we started playing soccer. I was one of the last to leave.



This sounds almost exactly like the description of Ne-Fe I read a few months ago. You seem to have been attempting to use tertiary Fe, which is the only unconscious function that gets directly used. The inferior, as I said, is primarily motivational and doesn't manifest itself in behavior unless an individual is pushed into a badly neurotic state. Another theory is that the inferior works in tandem with the tertiary whenever the latter is used. Your conscious Ne, which is quite possibly dominant, is in conflict with your unconscious Fe.



ScarrDragon said:


> My narcissistic idealistic dreams often center around me being the center of attention. But when time calls for it, I withdraw and go invisible because I'm afraid of messing up or embarrassing myself or god knows what. Funny, I entertain the idea of being the center of attention when I'm alone.


If we're going by the dom-tert theory, narcissism is characteristic of the 'unhealthy' ENTP - unhealthy because, as far as I can tell, they may have confidence issues (which is highly neurological). I haven't read anything by Jung about the dom-tert loop theory, however; I'm hoping to find better sources than reddit and tumblr for corroborating information on this theory.


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## Serpent (Aug 6, 2015)

Planisphere said:


> [/COLOR]This sounds almost exactly like the description of Ne-Fe I read a few months ago. You seem to have been attempting to use tertiary Fe, which is the only unconscious function that gets directly used. The inferior, as I said, is primarily motivational and doesn't manifest itself in behavior unless an individual is pushed into a badly neurotic state. Another theory is that the inferior works in tandem with the tertiary whenever the latter is used. Your conscious Ne, which is quite possibly dominant, is in conflict with your unconscious Fe.
> 
> 
> If we're going by the dom-tert theory, narcissism is characteristic of the 'unhealthy' ENTP - unhealthy because, as far as I can tell, they may have confidence issues (which is highly neurological). I haven't read anything by Jung about the dom-tert loop theory, however; I'm hoping to find better sources than reddit and tumblr for corroborating information on this theory.


Would you say that frustration with stability is a consequence of the Ne-Si axis?


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## Dezir (Nov 25, 2013)

ScarrDragon said:


> If the person in question is boring or annoying, probably not.
> I can talk for hours. I once spent five hours talking to one of my classmates... online, so that probably does not count.


Considering your answer, probably not, I tend to belive you're an ENTP, an INTP would know for sure he will get tierd after talking to people for a while because he recharges his energy by being alone.


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## Planisphere (Apr 24, 2012)

ScarrDragon said:


> Would you say that frustration with stability is a consequence of the Ne-Si axis?


Quite possibly, actually. The descriptions Jung gives of inferior Si are as follows:


* *






> They likewise come to the surface in the form of intensive projections, and are just as absurd as those of the sensation-type, only to my mind they lack the other's mystical character; they are chiefly concerned with quasi-actual things, in the nature of sexual, financial, and other hazards, as, for instance, suspicions of approaching illness. This difference appears to be due to a repression of the sensations of actual things. These latter usually command attention in the shape of a sudden entanglement with a most unsuitable woman, or, in the case of a woman, with a thoroughly unsuitable man; and this is simply the result of their unwitting contact with the sphere of archaic sensations. But its consequence is an unconsciously compelling tie to an object of incontestable futility...
> 
> He rids himself of the restrictions of reason, only to fall a victim to unconscious neurotic compulsions in the form of oversubtle, negative reasoning, hair-splitting dialectics, and a compulsive tie to the sensation of the object. His conscious attitude, both to the sensation and the sensed object, is one of sovereign superiority and disregard. Not that he means to be inconsiderate or superior -- he simply does not see the object that everyone else sees; his oblivion is similar to that of the sensation-type -- only, with the latter, the soul of the object is missed. For this oblivion the object sooner or later takes revenge in the form of hypochondriacal, compulsive ideas, phobias, and every imaginable kind of absurd bodily sensation.





In short, it seems that inferior Si leads to suspicion of the external world, creating an effect that is somewhat similar to those manifest in the early stages of schizophrenia. It attempts to anchor the Ne to the world of reality by warning the individual that there are 'practical' matters to attend to, but it fails in doing this because it acts primarily to the negative. Ne still imagines possibilities, but Si tethers it in the direction of paranoia.

Jung also stated that inferior Fe, which is used by INTPs, manifests as exaggerated infatuation. However, he also mentions that if an INTP is not communicating with others that can understand him/her, said INTP would then begin to see socializing as a meaningless effort (the schizotypal reason: if nobody can understand me, then there is no point to socializing'). The quote in my signature sums it up the best.


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## randomshoes (Dec 11, 2013)

ScarrDragon said:


> I have noticed that in social situations, I find it hard to tune people out, unless the situation is terribly boring (this happens almost always in high school, though). This mostly happens whenever I'm being socially anxious or self-conscious. I try to withdraw into my own world, but my brain keeps switching me back to the external world. I want to listen to my own thoughts, but I can't help listening to what the people in my vicinity are saying, especially if I know them. For example, yesterday, I was in a party where I was anxious and did not want people to see or talk to me. Therefore, I tried to get lost in my thoughts in order to tune them out and not worry about them, but I could not do it. I had to see what was going on, even if I wasn't necessarily interested. Even if I'm silent by virtue of my social anxiety, I'm processing the external world in my mind. I also don't last long in isolation (unless there's internet or I'm home), no matter how much I lust for it. In the aforementioned situation, when I did finally escape the party and entered solitude for a while, I felt relieved but I also felt unsatisfied. I felt as if I was missing something (or everything). I went back after three minutes. Then I escaped again after another few minutes. This cycle continued until the party ended or we started playing soccer. I was one of the last to leave.


I do this too. I absolutely can't read or write when my friends are having a conversation, whether or not it's actually interesting. I often wish I could block everything out but my brain has other ideas.


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## lifefullofwords (Oct 25, 2013)

Based on this thread, I definitely think you're an ENTP. For one thing, the waffling is very typical of Ne doms. Ti doms tend to be a lot more decisive since it's a judging function. However, I don't know you well enough to feel all the confident typing you. In my opinion the person best qualified to type you is you. So I suggest that if you haven't done so already you read as much as you can about Ti and Ne then observe your mental processes and determine which function you reach for most frequently and most instinctively. That will be your dominant function and then you'll know your type for sure.



ScarrDragon said:


> But would an ENTP be predisposed to compare the present with the past? I've noticed that I often compare the present with the past and predict the future based on the comparison whenever I make a suggestion or proposition. It's as if I have this melancholy when it comes to thinking about the past. I hate getting stuck in the past or details, I like moving on even if the problem is terrifying. But I do tend to get stuck in the past via nostalgia.


Sounds like inferior Si to me. Just because Si is your last function doesn't mean you never use it (it is in your functional stack after all), it just means that it's prone to malfunctioning. Also, you will likely use it less or at least less instinctively than any of your other functions.


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## Serpent (Aug 6, 2015)

lifefullofwords said:


> Based on this thread, I definitely think you're an ENTP. For one thing, the waffling is very typical of Ne doms. Ti doms tend to be a lot more decisive since it's a judging function. However, I don't know you well enough to feel all the confident typing you. In my opinion the person best qualified to type you is you. So I suggest that if you haven't done so already you read as much as you can about Ti and Ne then observe your mental processes and determine which function you reach for most frequently and most instinctively. That will be your dominant function and then you'll know your type for sure.
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like inferior Si to me. Just because Si is your last function doesn't mean you never use it (it is in your functional stack after all), it just means that it's prone to malfunctioning. Also, you will likely use it less or at least less instinctively than any of your other functions.


What sources would you recommend?


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## lifefullofwords (Oct 25, 2013)

ScarrDragon said:


> What sources would you recommend?


There's a lot of good information on this forum and online but there are some great books out there too. I recommend you read Different Types by by Isabel Briggs Myers and Peter B. Myers first. It introduces the types by discussing their dominant functions. I'm Not Crazy, I'm Just Not You by Roger Pearman and Sarah C. Albritton is also very good, although less essential, and takes a similar approach. Another way to identify your dominant function is to identify your inferior function, then it will obviously be its opposite. To that end I suggest you read Was That Really Me? How Everyday Stress Brings Out Our Hidden Personality by Naomi L. Quenk. One of the reasons I suspect you're an ENTP is because you seem to use Fe much more adeptly than Si. So perhaps identifying your inferior function will be easier for you than identifying your dominant function.


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## Serpent (Aug 6, 2015)

lifefullofwords said:


> There's a lot of good information on this forum and online but there are some great books out there too. I recommend you read Different Types by by Isabel Briggs Myers and Peter B. Myers first. It introduces the types by discussing their dominant functions. I'm Not Crazy, I'm Just Not You by Roger Pearman and Sarah C. Albritton is also very good, although less essential, and takes a similar approach. Another way to identify your dominant function is to identify your inferior function, then it will obviously be its opposite. To that end I suggest you read Was That Really Me? How Everyday Stress Brings Out Our Hidden Personality by Naomi L. Quenk. One of the reasons I suspect you're an ENTP is because you seem to use Fe much more adeptly than Si. So perhaps identifying your inferior function will be easier for you than identifying your dominant function.


I immediately started researching about the three books after I saw your post.
I have just one question to ask. Why do you think that I use Fe much more adeptly than Si?


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## Planisphere (Apr 24, 2012)

Although I agree that Naomi Quenk's book on the inferior function is worth the read, I would recommend the works of Carl Jung before delving into Myers-Briggs. MBTI is derived from Jung's work, and although the original theory is not necessarily 'superior', it's important to see what the Myers developed their system from. There are numerous differences between the two as well, which is why you will see supporters of Jung clashing with supporters of MBTI theory.

I support Jung's work first and foremost, but I've been learning MBTI for over two years now, so I'm not entirely biased. Read both and decide which one makes the most sense, then apply it.


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## lifefullofwords (Oct 25, 2013)

ScarrDragon said:


> I immediately started researching about the three books after I saw your post.
> I have just one question to ask. Why do you think that I use Fe much more adeptly than Si?


Glad I could help.  I said you seemed more adept with Fe than Si because you seem relatively comfortable interacting with people (which is not to say that INTPs always lack social skills but they tend not to be their strong suit). But it's hard to tell how adept someone is at face-to-face interaction from the internet. I haven't seen you use Si much at all except in that one post where you expressed some discomfort with it.



Planisphere said:


> Although I agree that Naomi Quenk's book on the inferior function is worth the read, I would recommend the works of Carl Jung before delving into Myers-Briggs. MBTI is derived from Jung's work, and although the original theory is not necessarily 'superior', it's important to see what the Myers developed their system from. There are numerous differences between the two as well, which is why you will see supporters of Jung clashing with supporters of MBTI theory.
> 
> I support Jung's work first and foremost, but I've been learning MBTI for over two years now, so I'm not entirely biased. Read both and decide which one makes the most sense, then apply it.


I've read Jung as well and while I found it to be quite interesting I didn't recommend it because his understanding of the functions differs rather dramatically that of Myers and Briggs. I think it's an important book to read but not the most helpful way to identify one's dominant function, assuming one is working within a Myers-Briggs framework and not within a Jungian one.


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## Serpent (Aug 6, 2015)

lifefullofwords said:


> Glad I could help.  I said you seemed more adept with Fe than Si because you seem relatively comfortable interacting with people (which is not to say that INTPs always lack social skills but they tend not to be their strong suit). But it's hard to tell how adept someone is at face-to-face interaction from the internet. I haven't seen you use Si much at all except in that one post where you expressed some discomfort with it.
> 
> 
> 
> I've read Jung as well and while I found it to be quite interesting I didn't recommend it because his understanding of the functions differs rather dramatically that of Myers and Briggs. I think it's an important book to read but not the most helpful way to identify one's dominant function, assuming one is working within a Myers-Briggs framework and not within a Jungian one.


I think I use Si whenever I have those "Hey, I've seen that before!" or "That reminds me of the time..." moments. I also often make references to the past, especially when I'm attempting ironic humor. Comparing and contrasting a person's behavior in two different time-intervals to add a humorous effect.

I'm terrible at face-to-face conversations because I have a hard time making eye contact. I, however, am quite adept at conversations that require me to walk or face sideways. Then I dominate the conversation. Walking really helps in stimulating my mind and my social skills. I feel more confident when I'm walking rather than standing. Standing frustrates me. In fact, in soccer, I often demand to not be the goalkeeper because of that. I start feeling uncomfortable whenever I stand on one spot for more than a minute or two. It's as if I'm vulnerable when I'm standing. Even when I'm sitting or lying, I'm still at freedom. This probably does not make sense, now that I think about. Bottom line is, I hate standing.


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## DustOfShard (Nov 10, 2012)

Ne dominant severely conditioned to be Ti currently.


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## Serpent (Aug 6, 2015)

DustOfShard said:


> Ne dominant severely conditioned to be Ti currently.


What aspects of my posts reek of dominant Ne? I'm curious. I really want to know how my cognitive functions manifest.


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## DustOfShard (Nov 10, 2012)

ScarrDragon said:


> What aspects of my posts reek of dominant Ne? I'm curious. I really want to know how my cognitive functions manifest.


I should really stop replying to things on my phone. lol

I was talking about me. XD

Judging by your true question, which I just read, I'd say Ne, because we are analogous bastards.  Hehe. 

Although people in my life and work do force me to be Ti IRL pretty severely; that was not aimed at you at all.


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## Planisphere (Apr 24, 2012)

lifefullofwords said:


> I've read Jung as well and while I found it to be quite interesting I didn't recommend it because his understanding of the functions differs rather dramatically that of Myers and Briggs. I think it's an important book to read but not the most helpful way to identify one's dominant function, assuming one is working within a Myers-Briggs framework and not within a Jungian one.


This is true, but it wouldn't hurt to work off the Jungian framework as well. I considered my own typing from both perspectives, and I had concluded that I could be a number of different types using Myers-Briggs. However, using Jung's theory, I was able to narrow the possibilities because of Jung's observations on cognition over behavior. Cognition can be difficult to understand at first, but it is surprisingly helpful to understand how one views the world in relation to his/her conscious and unconscious functions.

Jung also mentioned some behavioral aspects of cognitive functions, but Myers-Briggs spent more time analyzing them. If I were to go by one description of Sensing and Intuition, I would claim Myers-Briggs looked more closely at the concrete, 'Sensing' side of cognition (behavior), while Jung observed the thought process in relation to the unconscious (the intuitive/mental aspect). Though both described cognition and behavior together, there seems to be a different focus in each. Both can be useful in different situations, so it's worth understanding them as theories of equal value.


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## Kabosu (Mar 31, 2012)

I have pondered before if I could be a Ti dominant myself. There's some differences from a Ne dominant in it and the less lame cognitive function tests have me pretty close between the two.

Ti doms tend to be more analytical i.e. personal interpretations of things in their ego. I tend to notice Ti doms do this more naturally than I do, kind of like their Ne is there to help them see their interpretations in a more outer way and to not limit their processes, For Ti as auxiliary, I'd say it's like trying to find personal meanings/interpretations to supplement our objective intuition.

I think Ne users are more likely to try spreading their enthusiasm around if they find they're in a permissible environment, whereas Ti doms would likely keep such a thing to themselves in more cases.

I don't really consider inferior Si to be nostalgic (and Si in itself might not really be). It isn't in the way the term is usually used at least (i.e. not that romanticized). I'm more likely to think about what I could have been doing instead of what I actually ended up doing in life when that gets to me. I do evaluate a lot of entertainment and food on my subjective impressions and comparisons of those things, but that's about as well as that function works for me.


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