# The Mating habits of a particular sub-culture.



## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

So theres this pic that everyones having a go at recently:










Saying how shockingly ugly it is. It amazed me to see it appear so many times with so many comments -- because who cares, but it seems people do.

It reminded me of something though. Jersey Shore. I think after all the fun people had making fun of "guido" culture online, the show became really popular because its so easy to think they're douche bags.

Before I continue, I would like to say that I am not using the term "guido" as a racial slur. The term also means a particular sub-culture based on their habits and appearances. For the younger members who have spent some time on the internet, you probably know what I mean -- the hair gel, club hopping, fake tans, and tacky accessories. Someone said that the term could also be derogatory toward italian-americans, but this is not how the term is being used. There have been lots of "guido" memes online to point out the sub-culture, not make fun of a race of people.

Now anyway, I was watching an episode of Jersey Shore once to see if it would yield any lulz -- and no, not really, it was just sad. There was this instance where some of the guys were talking about which girls are hot, and which are not. They were talking about one girl in particular whos "NAT THAT HAT DOOD" and I was confused at first. Her body type was comparable to that of the others, and she had a conventionally pretty face, long blonde hair -- however, she wasn't wearing makeup, she didn't have a tan, and she wasn't dressed like a ten buck hooker. Aha. 

Their sub-culture is all about materialism, to the extent that even their beauty standards reflect that. Very tan, piles of makeup, nails done, etc., things most people would find unnatural and scary.

So I got to thinkin' that this is perhaps some affirmation of beauty standards being cultural. Here you have doods who are sexualizing overdone makeup, and other body clutter - and even the perfectly conventionally attractive girl who doesn't wear it all is overlooked. Hm.


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## Yardiff Bey (Jun 5, 2011)

Is that a girl or a barbie doll? I am serious, it looks like a barbie doll, not something human. Or maybe an updated version of the Bratz/Slutz doll.

If that is some heavy-duty makeup...how am I supposed to make love to it? I mean, what a mess on all the sheets and all after just a few minutes...

What happened to the idea of waking up next to someone in the morning, admiring her as the sun rises, and kissing and holding her close as she wakes up? (Yeah yeah, incurable freaking romantic here...)


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## Siggy (May 25, 2009)

I was about to say the same thing. Some serious plastic surgery here, or a mask?

IMHO, I find it rather repulsive; so artificial.


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## Cover3 (Feb 2, 2011)

resisted attempt to troll: achieved!


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## Ace Face (Nov 13, 2011)

I think the goal is to look as unhuman as possible? o.0

Looks like a new breed of clown. I mean really... what would you do if that thing started chasing you? =S


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## android654 (Jan 19, 2010)

I feel like if I touched her, her face would smear onto my hands.


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## Chipps (Jun 1, 2011)

I bet if you poked her in the face your finger would go through 3 inches of makeup before you touched her skin. 


Hopefully all that makeup was for a costume party or something, because if she wears that every day...:shocked:


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## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

.. There's a face on her makeup.


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## Joey Couturier (Jul 20, 2012)

This is photoshoped, trust me I know what I,m talking about! :wink:


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## BlissfulDreams (Dec 25, 2009)

It's not exactly about guidos, but I still think it's relevant:


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## koalaroo (Nov 25, 2011)

The photo reminds me of Japanese "Kogal" culture from the 90s but more frightening.


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## Shinji Mimura (Aug 1, 2012)

Promethea said:


> So I got to thinkin' that this is perhaps some affirmation of beauty standards being cultural. Here you have doods who are sexualizing overdone makeup, and other body clutter - and even the perfectly conventionally attractive girl who doesn't wear it all is overlooked. Hm.


Sounds more like American gypsies to me -_-

Anyways, beauty is completely cultural. Prime example:

Girl from South Korea is 5 foot 6, which, to me, is tall for a woman, but I suppose that's debatable.

Anyways, she was 115 pounds. To most Americans, that's underweight. 115 pounds would be appropriate if she were, say, 5 feet or shorter, sure. But at 5 foot 6, there's no meet, no curves, and no bust.

Said girl told me she wanted to lose 10 pounds. Yes. 10. Why?

"Because in Korea, 115 is too much."

Now, I'm under the assumption she meant for her height, but...

what even...what? I'm sorry, but I don't think any female above the age of 14 should weigh 105 pounds or less. I mean, if they're still growing, then sure, but this girl was 21 years old (and 5 foot 6); she has no business trying to go down to 105 pounds.

But, as I've learned, it is expected in Korean (and to an extent Japanese) culture to be Olive Oyl from Popeye. You are to have no belly fat whatsoever, no boobs, no ass, and likely no legs of any kind.

Not only that, but it's very common in Asian culture to want to be white. Not white as in Caucasian, white as in pale. Asians will commonly bring umbrellas with them no matter the weather because it keeps them from tanning. To them, dark skin is, and this isn't a racist thing, dirty, impure, etc, whereas white skin is seen as, duh, pure and clean and whatnot.

One of Korea's largest-selling products is called "BB Cream", and it's used by pretty much any Korean actor/ress, singer, famous person, etc, and, therefore, by its younger population. From what I'm read, it's actually really good stuff dermatology-wise, but, to me, I'd say its rampant selling comes from Korea's overbearing need to be not only superficial, but to be perfect physically. Perfect skin, no acne, perfect color of white, perfect weight, not fat, etc.

It's funny how a lot of this is in contrast to the US. Here, we have varying views of beauty, sure, but most people view a person with a tan as attractive. I'd say most men prefer women with reasonable curvature (although that gets into the debate of: are you an ass or tits man? I prefer vag, but whatev), and don't prefer gaunt, starved girls with the figure of a 12 year-old boy.

Across the ocean from Korea you have Japan. They share similar values to Korea: super skinny anorexic girls, pale skin, etc. However, Japan has a much more openly sexual culture, which plays a huuuuge role in defining their a bit more (and I do mean a bit) liberal views of sexuality than Korea's. Howso? Well, besides having a rather (in?)famous pornographic style, Japan has three rather interesting trends to it:
1. Russian prostitutes, 2. Filipina strippers, and 3. An obsession for big boobs

For those of you who wonder why, in Japanese anime, many female characters (who are presumed to be Japanese) have such large breasts (when, stereotypically, Asians are not always known for their pronounced assets), it would be because of the rather repressed nature of the Japanese man, and how while Japanese society dictates the want for skinny, white Japanese girls, the deep-seated need for a big breasted white women is unquenchable in the Japanese head.

That said, there are plenty pornographic films in Japan featuring many western European women, as well as American women, and a focus is placed primarily on their large breasts (that and because most vaginas are pixelated-out).

Sorry for the rant, but, *shrug*, I was an Asian culture major in college (before I switched) and I love sexy sex.

Culture is most definitely a factor in beauty. I mean, every INDIVIDUAL has their own standards, duh, which is why America can be nice some times; we don't have a "universal" standard of beauty like many mono-racial cultures do.

Also, the guidos you were watching aren't a good representation of Italians. I don't really know anything about Italy-Italians, other than there was this one BBW meet-up in Italy, and Italians definitely seem to be the type who dig fat chicks. Just saiyan.


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## Pete The Lich (May 16, 2011)

this maybe?


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

Shinji Mimura said:


> Sounds more like American gypsies to me -_-
> 
> Anyways, beauty is completely cultural. Prime example:
> 
> ...


Lol thanks for this. I have some similar thoughts on things. I was a sociology major and sex/relationships always interested me a -lot-. But yeah, your reply was the kind of thoughtfulness I was looking for here. I should have thought twice about posting the weird pic, and realized the thread would mostly be about that. lol..

But yeah, I think guido culture is different from even normal italian-american culture. I used to live in Rhode Island and I observed a lot of italian-americans there. A lot of those guys seemed to have a thing for large-breasted women for example. I have no clue what italian culture in italy is like other than stereotypes unfortunately, but the bbw thing is interesting -- unexpected I guess. XD


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

Oy. I used to live in manhattan. "Guido" is derogatory. 

Italian American men on the east coast who sometimes behave like that, do have a lot more to offer. The show won't have an audience if they show their good side and their loyalty.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

Yardiff Bey said:


> Is that a girl or a barbie doll? I am serious, it looks like a barbie doll, not something human. Or maybe an updated version of the Bratz/Slutz doll.
> 
> If that is some heavy-duty makeup...how am I supposed to make love to it? I mean, what a mess on all the sheets and all after just a few minutes...
> 
> What happened to the idea of waking up next to someone in the morning, admiring her as the sun rises, and kissing and holding her close as she wakes up? (Yeah yeah, incurable freaking romantic here...)


i like that 'slutz' dolls. bratz dolls are horrendous things.


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## Shinji Mimura (Aug 1, 2012)

Mm, no problem. Yellow people are my specialty, but I consider myself more of a "social psychologist" than I do an Asian culture specialist or whatever.

That said, I don't know how much of an expert on this sort of thing people are. Honestly, I'd say it kinda depends on if we have more people who know anything about other cultures to the extent that I/we do.

Well, I'd presume that Italians are into curves since their culture is (and if it isn't, please correct me) similar to Spanish culture (and by extension Portuguese), which is also into curvy women.

I think it's because those three cultures are still very much into the idea that the woman is the childbearer, and thus generally has thick hips so as to tolerate bearing the child, and larger breasts due to breasts generally growing during pregnancy. Furthermore, from what I know of Mexican culture (I live in San Antonio. City's like...68% Mexican), Spain and Italy seem to be very big family, big breeding, huge family dinner, mom/grandma cooks for everyone sort of culture. This all is in great contrast to Korean and Japanese cultures who see women not so much as childbearers, but as housewives, and therefore places more care on their role/"place" than their body. Furthermore, Asian family ties are hierarchical, and are more about respecting and honoring your family, and showing respect to your elders, whereas Spanish and Italian families are more used to a farming lifestyle, as well as a traditionally Catholic one, and thus are, again, big family, all eat in the same room, all stay in touch, etc.

That, and you can't forget that Asians are notorious for being non-social, whereas Spanish are known for their "fiestas" and lots of big parties and get togethers that they value as celebrations.

That aside, I just don't honestly know why a man wouldn't want a woman with big boobehs. A lot of the guys I've known who prefer smaller say things like, "I like a handful; I don't like it when it leaks out of my hands." And it's like, okay...but I mean, you can totally get that out of, like, a 36 C, which is still a great size, and they're like nah, Bs are good.

My personal philosophy has always been that one of the ACTUAL differences between men and women is their body. Women are more biologically dispositioned to be curvy than men, and are therefore more likely to have breasts, glutes, and thighs of a different size and curvature than men.

If you're lacking this, then, to me, that is a lack of feminine representation. I mean, I also give zero fucks about physicality, but I definitely don't get the itty bitty titty movement in male culture. Hey, more power to them; they'd do amazingly in Korea and Japan  (which is where I'm moving T_T)


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## Cetanu (Jan 20, 2012)

"The more you hate it; the stronger it gets."


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## Surreal Snake (Nov 17, 2009)

Looks like she was poured into a mold.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

pinkrasputin said:


> Oy. I used to live in manhattan. "Guido" is derogatory.
> 
> Italian American men on the east coast who sometimes behave like that, do have a lot more to offer. The show won't have an audience if they show their good side and their loyalty.


I'm not calling italian-americans in general guidos -- but the ones who fit the stereotype/memes on the internet. I don't think this sub-culture is the typical italian-american.










Like I said in another post, I used to live in RI and have seen lots of normal italian-americans.


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## Yardiff Bey (Jun 5, 2011)

Promethea said:


> i like that 'slutz' dolls. bratz dolls are horrendous things.


Yah. Apologies for getting sidetracked by the doll/girl/thing - you're right, it completely sucked away the attention.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

Yardiff Bey said:


> Yah. Apologies for getting sidetracked by the doll/girl/thing - you're right, it completely sucked away the attention.


lol peoples reactions to it really amazed me on fb.


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## Angelic Gardevoir (Oct 7, 2010)

Let's add one more PerC reaction:

It's an alien. I swear that's an alien female making a desperate attempt to fit in among humans.


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## Shinji Mimura (Aug 1, 2012)

Promethea said:


> I don't think this sub-culture is the typical italian-american.


I just genuinely don't think they are Italians.


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

Promethea said:


> I'm not calling italian-americans in general guidos -- but the ones who fit the stereotype/memes on the internet. I don't think this sub-culture is the typical italian-american.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sorry to be such a stick in the mud but before someone gets themselves in trouble I think it's important to bring attention to the fact that "Guido" can be considered a racial slur. That's why it sort of surprised me to see the thread title. Guido (slang) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. It's just one of those things that some people can call themselves but it's best if outsiders don't. Not that they aren't partly responsible for perpetuating it.

However, the look boggles my mind too. I find that over done culture and make up bizarre. And probably many many people find it bizarre and that's why they watch the show It's almost horrifying. I saw half of Jersey Shore once. That's about all I could take. I used to work around people close to that but they weren't quite so ridiculous.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

pinkrasputin said:


> Sorry to be such a stick in the mud but before someone gets themselves in trouble I think it's important to bring attention to the fact that "Guido" can be considered a racial slur. That's why it sort of surprised me to see the thread title. Guido (slang) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. It's just one of those things that some people can call themselves but it's best if outsiders don't. Not that they aren't partly responsible for perpetuating it.
> 
> However, the look boggles my mind too. I find that over done culture and make up bizarre. And probably many many people find it bizarre and that's why they watch the show It's almost horrifying. I saw half of Jersey Shore once. That's about all I could take. I used to work around people close to that but they weren't quite so ridiculous.


I'm in no way using the word as a racial slur. The term has been used on the internet for a long time to mean basically whats seen in that picture. Here is the way that I am using the term, in the first definition here where it states that they don't even -have- to be of italian descent. Its a style/sub-culture, not race.

"guido	18267 up, 2861 down
A sad pathetic excuse for a male; not necessarily of Italian descent, but most likely; usually native to the New York/New Jersey Tri-State area. 

WARDROBE: tight zipper shirts, tracksuits, designer jeans, fuzzy kangol hats, tiny hoop earrings, fake gold chains, and related Euro-trash garb and tacky cheese-wear. 

NATURAL HABITAT: Known to frequent Tri-State area malls looking for club gear to waste their week's pay on (most likely spotted shopping at "Bang Bang" in Staten Island). During the day when not at their food delivery, telemarketting, or construction job, can be located at their local gym tanning or lifting weights. Can be found nightly at mainstream danceclubs they read about online (SF, Webster Hall, Etc.). Most notable for cruising the Jersey shore in an old car (Honda, Mustang, etc.) which has been tinted, painted and sports $1,000-$3,000 rims in a feeble attempt to look like new. Guido cars usually have a boomin' system through which cheesy music like freestyle, commercial club/trance and hip-hop (anything KTU plays) is loudly blasted. "

I am not a racist.

**I edited the main post to distinguish the sub-culture term from the term used as a slur. The two are used differently and the term commonly used on the internet for the sub-culture is -not- racist in any way - no more than calling someone goth is racist.


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

Promethea said:


> I'm in no way using the word as a racial slur. The term has been used on the internet for a long time to mean basically whats seen in that picture. Here is the way that I am using the term, in the first definition here where it states that they don't even -have- to be of italian descent. Its a style/sub-culture, not race.
> 
> "guido	18267 up, 2861 down
> A sad pathetic excuse for a male; not necessarily of Italian descent, but most likely; usually native to the New York/New Jersey Tri-State area.
> ...


I know you're not a racist. Actually, you could be Italian for all I know.


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## Mutatio NOmenis (Jun 22, 2009)

Promethea said:


> So theres this pic that everyones having a go at recently:


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

pinkrasputin said:


> I know you're not a racist. Actually, you could be Italian for all I know.


Ok good, was worried for a sec.


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## goastfarmer (Oct 20, 2010)

I would just like to say that I agree @pinkrasputin about the use of the word 'guido'. I don't mean any disrespect to you Promethea, nor do I believe you mean harm by using that term. However, it is a racial slur whether or not it used on the internet to detonate a subculture. 

The term itself represents disrespect and is rooted in an ugly history such as the words 'slut' or '******'. Guidos whether they be Jersey Shore guidos or otherwise are not respected by the majority of population. Therefore by using the term, guidos' inferior place is reinforced through rhetoric. I do believe some people may refer to themselves as guidos, but that's a lot like some black people calling themselves and other blacks *******. It perpetuates dehumanizing rhetoric. 

I understand that you are trying to distinguish a certain group of people that you wish to talk about, but the term is racist whether or not it is used in a racist way. Of course, I don't know what else to call those people. The show itself was based off of the idea of a "guido lifestyle" albeit a false one, but that is only indicative of the show being racist and based on poor stereotypes itself. It's not something that can be shrugged off. It's kind of a shame what the show did to the Italian-Americans, New Jersey people, and that subculture. Everything got all twisted up and turned into a caricature of itself... though the subculture was arguably one to begin with. I'd say it's a product of biggest and best American mentality, the overindulgent consumer drive, and the glitz and glamor associated with pop media. 

(I don't mean to keep digging at something, but this doesn't really sit right with me.)


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## Aqualung (Nov 21, 2009)

The girl in the pic reminds me of something off an old Star Trek episode. Not attractive, just bizzare. I guess that's birth control makeup.


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## cue5c (Oct 12, 2011)

What I find interesting is the visceral response everyone has to this girl. She's so done up and digitally touched up that even though the our minds don't acknowledge her as human, even though we know she is. Society keeps pushing artificial looks and the truth is that she's the natural outcome of all of this. Take a look at these pictures. One is Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton, the other is from an upcoming movie about their relationship.

*Promotional Still*









*Original*









If nothing else, look at the skin. It's disgusting, honestly. Like an embalmed corpse.


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## Shinji Mimura (Aug 1, 2012)

saintless said:


> I would just like to say that I agree @_pinkrasputin_ about the use of the word 'guido'. I don't mean any disrespect to you Promethea, nor do I believe you mean harm by using that term. However, it is a racial slur whether or not it used on the internet to detonate a subculture.
> 
> The term itself represents disrespect and is rooted in an ugly history such as the words 'slut' or '******'. Guidos whether they be Jersey Shore guidos or otherwise are not respected by the majority of population. Therefore by using the term, guidos' inferior place is reinforced through rhetoric. I do believe some people may refer to themselves as guidos, but that's a lot like some black people calling themselves and other blacks *******. It perpetuates dehumanizing rhetoric.
> 
> ...


I want you to know that, after reading this, I have officially become more racist.

It is thanks to you that I will now use more racial epithets.

As a 1/4th guido, I approve of the OP's use of the word. Words have many definitions, and, in this case, she didn't use the definition in the way you described. Even if she had, guido wasn't really being actively used in American racist culture.

"Slut" is generally pejorative, true, but it does not hold a candle to the likes of a word like "******" for various reasons. You cannot equivocate language so easily.


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## goastfarmer (Oct 20, 2010)

Shinji Mimura said:


> I want you to know that, after reading this, I have officially become more racist.
> 
> It is thanks to you that I will now use more racial epithets.
> 
> ...


Well, that is the history and the general conatation of the word as far as I am concerned. However, I will admit I don't the true context and evolving use of the word given I have never lived on the east coast amd what not. I find it strange that someone would want to use a word with such a history, but I guess people can't stop my sailor's mouth (I don't find cuss generally insulting, unpleasant at the very least but not all of them) so I guess if you wish to employ more or less risque rhetoric go ahead. Just beware exactly what you are doing. To some people these words have offensive power. 

Though again, I don't think Promethea did any harm just the general use of the word seems harmful. 

And, true enough. The three words I compared don't belong to exact same circumstances, but am I suppose to find a word that fits the exact history and social bearing as guido? That would be just about impossoble. The words just have a few aspects in common, and those aspects were the ones I wish to compare. Though, the word slut has an etymological history I am not entirely sure you're aware of. I view the word as more than just an insult. 

...but this is where studying etymology usually bites me in the ass. (Oh, I also realize general swear words and racial swears are totally different, but I figure if you take the approach to them as you do then you kind of give them the same power.)


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## android654 (Jan 19, 2010)

cue5c said:


> What I find interesting is the visceral response everyone has to this girl. She's so done up and digitally touched up that even though the our minds don't acknowledge her as human, even though we know she is. Society keeps pushing artificial looks and the truth is that she's the natural outcome of all of this. Take a look at these pictures. One is Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton, the other is from an upcoming movie about their relationship.
> 
> *Promotional Still*
> 
> ...


What does it have to do with the Oompah Loompah on the first page?


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## SlowPoke68 (Apr 26, 2010)

Promethea said:


> They were talking about one girl in particular whos "NAT THAT HAT DOOD" . . . .


Interesting take.

I've long thought that makeup and tarty clothes had some real effect on attractiveness that could get back to some evolutionary advantage: Rouge gives some color of health, eyeliner gives a younger 'doll-like' appearance, short skirts reveal the legs and bottom, etc. But what you are seeing is that all that "stuff" is valued a sort of marker of wealth (i.e. materialism) that has no bearing on actual physical attributes that might be useful for mating. It's just a fetish for material crap played out on the canvas of the body.

Thus, more or less total decadence.


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## Raichan (Jul 15, 2010)

Interesting, beauty is indeed cultural.

I also find the picture unusual, but it's too hyped up, I don't get the need of others to excessively comment on her appearance, she's still just a person.


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## cue5c (Oct 12, 2011)

android654 said:


> What does it have to do with the Oompah Loompah on the first page?


Look at the girl in the still and the girl on the front's skin. We wouldn't have the girl on the front without the standard of beauty that's projected today.


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## android654 (Jan 19, 2010)

cue5c said:


> Look at the girl in the still and the girl on the front's skin. We wouldn't have the girl on the front without the standard of beauty that's projected today.


There's pressure from the media to look orange and apply copious amounts of make-up? I've never seen any arm of the media promote anything even remotely close to that.


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## cue5c (Oct 12, 2011)

android654 said:


> There's pressure from the media to look orange and apply copious amounts of make-up? I've never seen any arm of the media promote anything even remotely close to that.


It's not about looking orange. It's about looking "perfect" in a way that isn't human. Obviously the girl's taste is beyond questionable and it's her interpretation of what looks good, but without the constant photoshopped media being thrown everywhere the picture we're looking at would have been much less jarring. Probably still tacky as fuck, though.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

SenhorFrio said:


> i really doubt that there is any major group of people who actually like that.
> 
> but oh yeah blah blah blah mainstream culture blah blah blah foolish conformists etc


Thanks for your thoughtful blah blah blah contribution to my thread, blah blah blah. It wasn't at all blah blah blah or blah blah blah, but legitimately a pile of blah blah blah.


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## Resolution (Feb 8, 2010)

Ace Face said:


> I think the goal is to look as unhuman as possible? o.0
> 
> Looks like a new breed of clown. I mean really... what would you do if that thing started chasing you? =S


Step 1










Step 2










Hopefully the jumping overhand punch will stun it for long enough for me to morph into Usain Bolt and bounce.


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## koalaroo (Nov 25, 2011)

Btmangan said:


> Step 1
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If only this was a viable escape mechanic ... :laughing:

That was great.


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## koalaroo (Nov 25, 2011)

As a note on this thread topic, though, I have heard people from New Jersey (including Italian Americans) say that the Jersey Shore folks belong to "guido culture." Apparently, if you aren't burned brown like the Barbie in the grill spit in the Black Hole Sun video, you aren't doing things right in most of New Jersey. Also seems like the people who do this are some people's #1 excuse for bouncing from Jersey.


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