# Socionics - Im an INFJ?! (INFP = INFJ?)



## ethylester

Numi said:


> [click here if..] You may often feel the need but find it rather difficult to maintain a steady balance between your physical and spiritual self.
> 
> [click here if..] You may often feel the need but find it rather difficult to maintain a steady balance between your intellectual and emotional self.


Wow that's an interesting question. I would definitely go with the second one. I'm confused though, which one did that correspond with?


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## Rose Lama

Numi said:


> but its a bit confusing.. when im an INFP at MBTI, and an INFj at Socionics, but the p/j means the same(1)... so only the functions are switched(2)... what am i really now?
> 
> I mean, I think im definitive P (now i mean not the charakterization of INF>P<, i mean the charakterization of P(1 again))
> So.. someone has to be wrong.. not?
> 
> am I fi, ne, si, te ... or ni, fe, si, te?
> 
> Though i tend much more to the MBTI INFP one..
> 
> Awww, thats rly cracking my mind now.. xD
> 
> PS: thanks for your answers!
> ah, and thanks for the flowers:



By reading how you express yourself, defenetly proves you're INFP. A sister can recognize. If you now how to express yourself with cuteness, you're INFP. XD
Btw, forgive my gramatical errors, english is not my main language XP


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## DeparatedReticence

The last letter means two different things in these tests.

MBTI the last letter is the extraverted function: INFP means Ne is auxiliary
Socionics the last letter is the dominant function: INFj means Fe is dominant.
INFP = INFj

For extraverted types, they're identical.


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## -Alpha-

I'm both unsure as to how people get confused by the J/P dichotomy even after they've heard it explained.

Furthermore, I fail to understand how it persists to be an issue discussed at such length. 

Functionally, very little has actually changed.


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## AST

-Alpha- said:


> I'm both unsure as to how people get confused by the J/P dichotomy even after they've heard it explained.
> 
> Furthermore, I fail to understand how it persists to be an issue discussed at such length.
> 
> *Functionally*, very little has actually changed.


Pun intended?


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## -Alpha-

AST said:


> Pun intended?


lol. Good catch. 

In a Jungian sense, functionally, a lot has changed.

In a contemporary sense, nothing has changed.


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## C. C. Scott

I have no doubt that I'm an INFJ in MBTI, and this seems to be an unpopular result, but I also relate to Socionics INFj over INFp. 

On the Socionics tests my J/P were consistently flopping from one side to the other. 

I've read as many descriptions for the Socionics INFx as I dare allow myself, and I can say _INFj feels more honest_, to myself. If this is the case:
Socionics, MBTI or both of them have an unclear image of cognitive functions. Since an INFJ (MBTI) and an INFj (Socionics) supposedly have an order that differs from one an other. 

If anyone has any way to explain why my thinking is invalid, or a way to explain this occurrence of double INFJ - - I'd love to hear it.


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## KalimofDaybreak

RedForest said:


> Hey guys. Just made the socionics test a few minutes ago (if you know it.)
> 
> Welcome to socionics.com!
> 
> its a russian personality test, more based on Jungs Theoreys then MBTI (if I understood right..)
> 
> at the test you have to pick the adjectives who describe you well, and then pick them wich dont. (it was hard to understand the most words for me..)
> 
> and well: i scored: at E / I : I
> S / N : N
> F / T : F
> 
> but at J / P:
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> Normal mode	                 Reversed mode	                Combined mode
> conscious  	unconscious	conscious	     unconscious	conscious	       unconscious
> p 	                 j 	               p 	              j 	               p 	                j
> 
> so, i want to be P, but am J? (lol)
> 
> *
> Scoring Factor:*
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> Normal mode	Reversed mode	Combined mode
> 0.93 	          0.97 	                 0.95
> 
> The Scoring factor shows how much you are aware of your type and/or the testing procedure. Anything close to and above 0.8 is considered high and could interfere with authenticity of the test outcome.
> 
> 
> This summarises your type as one of the following (in alphabetical order):
> 
> *INFj* a.k.a. Ethical-Intuitive Intratim "The Empath",
> *INFp* a.k.a. Intuitive-Ethical Intratim "The Romantic".
> 
> 
> And i got a *decision question*:
> 
> [click here if..] You may often feel the need but find it rather difficult to maintain a steady balance between your physical and spiritual self.
> 
> [click here if..] You may often feel the need but find it rather difficult to maintain a steady balance between your intellectual and emotional self.
> 
> 
> A hard question for me, and I dont know, both fit to me.. I guess
> But i picked the* first one* intuitive..
> 
> and got* then*:
> 
> Although the test results show that your type could be either of the above, you think it is:
> 
> INFj a.k.a. Ethical-Intuitive Intratim "The Empath".
> 
> 
> "
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> By preference	                    By function	                       MBTI® Type Dynamics
> INFj                                       Ethical-Intuitive                                  Fi,Ne,Si,Te
> 
> 
> If your type is *INFj* a.k.a. *Ethical-Intuitive* Intratim "The Empath", you are confident and concrete regarding how you feel about something or someone, creative and inventive regarding your ability to recognise common tendencies and possibilities, delicate and insecure regarding the necessities and sensations of your body, and you wish to have a clear perception and consistency regarding your expertise in know-how and how-to."
> 
> 
> But isnt INFJ at MBTI: Ni,Fe,Ti,Se ???
> and INFP Fi,Ne,Si,Te....
> 
> 
> and INFP is discribed by socionics:
> 
> "
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> By preference	                    By function	                       MBTI® Type Dynamics
> INFp                                        Intuitive-Ethical                           Ni,Fe,Ti,Se
> 
> If your type is *INFp* a.k.a. *Intuitive-Ethical *Intratim "The Romantic", you are confident and concrete regarding your own beliefs and fantasies, creative and inventive regarding how excited others are about you, delicate and insecure regarding your understanding of how things work, and you wish to have a clear perception and consistency regarding your physical strength or position of authority."
> 
> 
> But the describing text seems to fit, or?
> 
> But I really dont think that i am INFJ, im too chaotic/daydreaming/spontaneous...
> 
> 
> Can some INFP make that test too? would be interesting for me...
> 
> 
> Ahhh, and one thing i wanted to mention: the socionics more lay stress on the *compatibility between the types*, if i understood right..
> 
> so for *INFP* they suggest:
> 
> ESTp - "The Conqueror" ****
> INFp - "The Romantic" ***
> ISTj - "The Pragmatist" **
> ENFj - "The Actor" *
> 
> ("* * * * - "Relations of Duality". The partners usually appear to be very different in every respect and yet have almost ungraspable similarity, as if they were the two opposite sides of the same coin. These relations can provide a complete psychological supplement and could easily be the most favourable and comfortable of all intertype relations.
> 
> * * * - "Identical Relations". The partners usually appear to be very similar in every respect, having similar perceptions, views and often even tastes. These relations can offer the partners much deeper understanding of each other's hopes and intentions but may be of little help when the partners have to deal with the similar problems they have.
> 
> * * - "Relations of Activity". The partners are naturally able to fire up and motivate each other into mutual activity, which with prolonged interaction may over-stimulate and drain the partners. These relations are usually an easy starter and could be very pleasant and fun, best suitable for short leisure breaks and undemanding relationships.
> 
> * - "Mirror Relations". The partners can often amaze and surprise each other with an interesting and unexpectedly original way of thinking or dealing with things. However, the surprises can be as amazing as they can be bewildering. These relations can often help the partners to realise their creative potential, but not without the cost of a good argument.
> 
> NOTE: Intertype compatibility only shows the compatibility between the psychological types of people. The compatibility between actual individuals however, consists of many different factors, including the intertype compatibility. The best compatibility does not necessarily imply mutual attraction.")
> 
> 
> Its interesting that ESTp is the best fitting partner... o_o
> 
> 
> /edit: and thats my MBTI profile btw:


Socionics' change of the J/P dichotomy has been a source of confusion for a lot of people, including myself when I first started using Socionics. Here's how it works:

Extraverted types are the same in both systems. The change came with introverts. Since Myers and Briggs use the J/P letter to refer to the most dominant extraverted function, in introverted types it, confusingly, refers to their _auxiliary_ function, instead of their dominant one. Socionics aimed to change this and have the system make more sense by instead using the J/P to refer to a type's most dominant function. So in the case of the INFP in the MBTI system, their functions are Fi-Ne-Si-Te, but their leading function is Fi, a judging function. In Socionics, the INFP becomes the INFj because their dominant function is a Judging function. So the INFP in MBTI is the same as the INFj in Socionics.

So to summarize before I move on, INFP in MBTI is the same as an INFj in Socionics. The case of the former, the P refers to the most dominant extraverted function, Ne (a perceiving function) for the INFP. In the latter case, the j refers to the most dominant function, with is Fi (a judging function) for the INFj. Socionics switched letters because the types in Myers-Briggs are confusing for introverts.

Jung, however, did things differently than both of these systems. He only used three letters for types, INF for instance. He didn't try to create a code for these types that linked to their functions, he just expected people to figure out what their functions were. So in his typology, an INFP and INFJ (MBTI version) were both INF, and they would indicate in some fashion that they were iNtuitive dominant types or Feeling dominant. There's wasn't any of this Judging/Perceiving junk, that is frankly more confusing and unhelpful than anything else, which is why I like how Socionics does it better than most other typology systems. The only nice way to put it is that the J/P dichotomy is an over-generalization about tendencies that are mostly untrue, especially for introverts. It is entirely possible to have a J that dislikes planning and structure and a P that can't stand open time. The reason is because of their functions. An ENFJ might be a more stereotypical J because the leading function is Fe, an extraverted Judging function. Because of this they will _most likely_ spend their time trying to organize their external world, usually in a way that makes everyone feel good for the EFJ types. However, this ceases to be true for the INFJ, since their dominant function is Ni, an introverted Perceiving function. This means that their primary mode of living is through internal perception, which has *nothing* to do with the real world at all. Practically speaking, this means that INFJs can be incredibly sloppy and disorganized even though they are Judgers. The problem is that their dominant function is a Perceiving function. Another example: ENFPs are often used as your typical perceiving type among intuitives, and this is probably true. Their primary mode of living is through Ne, extraverted Perceiving. They are receptive to their external world, which, like the INFJs (who are receptive internally), means that organization comes second, although this organization is internally directed (Fi) in the ENFPs, so they are less inclined to organize their external world even more so. Contrast that with the INFP, whose dominant function is Fi, a Judging function. This means their primary mode of living is by making judgments. INFPs can be surprisingly organized because of this, as their dominant function makes them actively seek out closure (or, as they put it, to feel better about something), although due to Fi's introverted nature, they may have difficulty achieving that closure in the outer world. However, internally, they find closure fairly easily, hence their famous stubbornness about their beliefs and values. In this sense, INFPs are better Judgers than INFJs, it's just we can't see how they organize because it's all internal.

So to summarize, the J/P dichotomy is just plain wrong and one really shouldn't use it for anything except for indicating functions. Everyone is capable of being organized or disorganized, but dealing with those strengths and weaknesses is a personal thing that your personality type can't solve for you.

Sorry, I got a little off-topic there. To answer your original question, if you scored INFj on Socionics, that means exactly the same thing as if you were an INFP in Myers-Briggs. The difference is only which function it refers to, but they refer to the same functional stack.

Hope this helped.


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## Eldar

Hey, I too got EII(INFj) in socionics, althought I'm an INFP in mbti.
I got really confused, but i guess that INFP in mbti can be INFx in socionics, and so goes with all introverts.


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## for the love of god

RedForest said:


> Hey guys. Just made the socionics test a few minutes ago (if you know it.)
> 
> Welcome to socionics.com!
> 
> its a russian personality test, more based on Jungs Theoreys then MBTI (if I understood right..)
> 
> at the test you have to pick the adjectives who describe you well, and then pick them wich dont. (it was hard to understand the most words for me..)
> 
> and well: i scored: at E / I : I
> S / N : N
> F / T : F
> 
> but at J / P:
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> Normal mode                     Reversed mode                    Combined mode
> conscious      unconscious    conscious         unconscious    conscious           unconscious
> p                      j                    p                   j                    p                     j
> 
> so, i want to be P, but am J? (lol)
> 
> 
> *Scoring Factor:*
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> Normal mode    Reversed mode    Combined mode
> 0.93               0.97                      0.95
> 
> The Scoring factor shows how much you are aware of your type and/or the testing procedure. Anything close to and above 0.8 is considered high and could interfere with authenticity of the test outcome.
> 
> 
> This summarises your type as one of the following (in alphabetical order):
> 
> *INFj* a.k.a. Ethical-Intuitive Intratim "The Empath",
> *INFp* a.k.a. Intuitive-Ethical Intratim "The Romantic".
> 
> 
> And i got a *decision question*:
> 
> [click here if..] You may often feel the need but find it rather difficult to maintain a steady balance between your physical and spiritual self.
> 
> [click here if..] You may often feel the need but find it rather difficult to maintain a steady balance between your intellectual and emotional self.
> 
> 
> A hard question for me, and I dont know, both fit to me.. I guess
> But i picked the* first one* intuitive..
> 
> and got* then*:
> 
> Although the test results show that your type could be either of the above, you think it is:
> 
> INFj a.k.a. Ethical-Intuitive Intratim "The Empath".
> 
> 
> "
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> By preference                        By function                           MBTI® Type Dynamics
> INFj                                       Ethical-Intuitive                                  Fi,Ne,Si,Te
> 
> 
> If your type is *INFj* a.k.a. *Ethical-Intuitive* Intratim "The Empath", you are confident and concrete regarding how you feel about something or someone, creative and inventive regarding your ability to recognise common tendencies and possibilities, delicate and insecure regarding the necessities and sensations of your body, and you wish to have a clear perception and consistency regarding your expertise in know-how and how-to."
> 
> 
> But isnt INFJ at MBTI: Ni,Fe,Ti,Se ???
> and INFP Fi,Ne,Si,Te....
> 
> 
> and INFP is discribed by socionics:
> 
> "
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> By preference                        By function                           MBTI® Type Dynamics
> INFp                                        Intuitive-Ethical                           Ni,Fe,Ti,Se
> 
> If your type is *INFp* a.k.a. *Intuitive-Ethical *Intratim "The Romantic", you are confident and concrete regarding your own beliefs and fantasies, creative and inventive regarding how excited others are about you, delicate and insecure regarding your understanding of how things work, and you wish to have a clear perception and consistency regarding your physical strength or position of authority."
> 
> 
> But the describing text seems to fit, or?
> 
> But I really dont think that i am INFJ, im too chaotic/daydreaming/spontaneous...
> 
> 
> Can some INFP make that test too? would be interesting for me...
> 
> 
> Ahhh, and one thing i wanted to mention: the socionics more lay stress on the *compatibility between the types*, if i understood right..
> 
> so for *INFP* they suggest:
> 
> ESTp - "The Conqueror" ****
> INFp - "The Romantic" ***
> ISTj - "The Pragmatist" **
> ENFj - "The Actor" *
> 
> ("* * * * - "Relations of Duality". The partners usually appear to be very different in every respect and yet have almost ungraspable similarity, as if they were the two opposite sides of the same coin. These relations can provide a complete psychological supplement and could easily be the most favourable and comfortable of all intertype relations.
> 
> * * * - "Identical Relations". The partners usually appear to be very similar in every respect, having similar perceptions, views and often even tastes. These relations can offer the partners much deeper understanding of each other's hopes and intentions but may be of little help when the partners have to deal with the similar problems they have.
> 
> * * - "Relations of Activity". The partners are naturally able to fire up and motivate each other into mutual activity, which with prolonged interaction may over-stimulate and drain the partners. These relations are usually an easy starter and could be very pleasant and fun, best suitable for short leisure breaks and undemanding relationships.
> 
> * - "Mirror Relations". The partners can often amaze and surprise each other with an interesting and unexpectedly original way of thinking or dealing with things. However, the surprises can be as amazing as they can be bewildering. These relations can often help the partners to realise their creative potential, but not without the cost of a good argument.
> 
> NOTE: Intertype compatibility only shows the compatibility between the psychological types of people. The compatibility between actual individuals however, consists of many different factors, including the intertype compatibility. The best compatibility does not necessarily imply mutual attraction.")
> 
> 
> Its interesting that ESTp is the best fitting partner... o_o
> 
> 
> /edit: and thats my MBTI profile btw:


No, you CANNOT convert MBTI and socionics like that, and NOT every INFJ will be IEI, just as NOT every INFP will be EII, the differences in definitions are so big, it enables for you to be different types in both systems, since even archetypes differ wildly. For instance Si in socionics is about comfort and "vibing", whereas in MBTI it's the adherence to a reliable structure and its enforcement. Please refrain from trying to convert them. There is a lot more to be said here and I can back this up with a lot more.


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## TKDfan888

I am also quite confused about the j/p switch. IEI is not me at all, but I thought that I was an INFJ. I respect Te greatly and I have strong opinions. 

EII-Ne fits me much more than any of the IEI subtypes.


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