# Is sex "the price a woman pays for a relationship with a man"?



## alice144 (Dec 31, 2009)

Okay, ladies and gents, don't get your panties all in a twist, that statement is kinda meant to be provacative.

Here, read the article too: Was Stephen Fry wrong about women and sex? Psychologies



This is my experience: I have had a lot of guy friends in the past. I slide into their man-groups quite well, no problems. However, unfortunately, seven or eight months down the road, sexual tensions which had been there all along rise to unbearable levels. People start getting angry with me.

Now, I don't particularly feel that I should be forced to have sex with any of them simply because they aren't getting their needs met and I happen to be the closest chick on hand. That said, I think that there is some truth in the notion that in any friendship for it to be a satisfactory one, both parties do need to be getting something out of it. That doesn't necessarily have to be sex, but I always feel that that pressure is there.

I did try to start a relationship with an old friend once, and it was totally awkward. Fail on all accounts. I don't know why anyone would want to do this, it makes no sense to me. But perhaps more experienced posters will have a different perspective on this.


Discuss, please!


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## OrangeAppled (Jun 26, 2009)

For me, the answer is simple: I am not so detached from my emotions that I can even enjoy a casual sexual experience. There is no point in it. That does not mean I view sex as a bargaining tool, but I also do not see it as merely a selfish satisfying of my own carnal desires. I don't believe all men see it that way either; or maybe I prefer to be naive enough to believe that men are not wholly detached either, or not all are anyway. Let's not even bring morals into the discussion...which I believe men have as much as women, although every individual will vary there. There is more to sex than just desire; for some, it has other significance they may wish to respect.

There's also the issue of safety for women, and availability. Women really don't have to cruise parks to get laid, and it's not particularly safe for them to (even if sex is the object, rape & murder are not). So I do agree women may have the upper hand in choosing sexual partners, but not necessarily in choosing relationship partners; maybe that does make relationships more valuable to women, but I still think sexual choosiness boils down to preferring sex with emotional attachment. Relationships may be viewed as the key to the desired kind of sex for women (speaking in generalizations here).

I've also had many close male friends over the years, and while on occasion a crush may develop on one side or the other, I've never experienced any resentment in myself or in them. Often these tensions pass without any harm. In a group setting especially do I not find it an issue. I don't feel any resentment is warranted either; we give & get the same from each other, mental stimulation, and maybe emotional support for the closer relationships. I don't see how my friendship is any less than that of another man's, so that I should be putting out for male friends as some sort of compensation for their attention.... I realize the OP is not really suggesting that, but the mere idea of it is insulting to women, as if our main value lies in our bodies....


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## ThisIsWhereIrunAway (Oct 25, 2010)

Haven't read the thread even but NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO


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## fn0rd (Mar 21, 2010)

no

12345678


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## Humaning (Aug 29, 2010)

I stay well away from women who concider that statement to be true. I will not negotiate for sex, and I will not be made into a trained dog. Sex is, at least to me in particular, a sublime union of mind, body and soul, if my partner cannot appreciate that, then I give her a one way ticket out of the relationship.
That said, you cannot expect to have sex with a friend and retain the same dynamics that you had previous to the act. If your friend does not concider your company to be enough payment for his friendship, then he is not, and will never be your friend. Just like OrangeAppled said, you have much more to contribute than your body and you should consider it a blatant insult if anyone disagrees with you. 
However, I know what you mean about the pressure always being there, but that is more of an instictual undertone, which you can only percieve if you are particularly aware of others motives, which I am guessing you are. The other person is oblivious of your awareness so you can continue to ignore it if you dont wish for it to manifest into anything solid. Just let it slip outside your radar and they will have to confront the impossibility of their desire. Sure they might say more overt comments, masked in the pretense of jokes, but let these comments be jokes and not innuendo. Ultimately, you should know that you have the power to interpret any comment or gesture in whatever way that you desire, and this shapes your interaction.
But also, dont get in into your head that your guy friends are waiting for the opportunity for you to slip and get into your pants. First, because you will project a bad vibe that will tarnish an otherwise great friendship and, seconds, because you might just manifest this thought into reality by the power of self-fullfilled prophesy.


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## vel (May 17, 2010)

No you shouldn't be obliged of course, but I know what you're talking about. I have associated with groups that were 80-90% male and unfortunately what does happen is that some of those guys start experiencing an attraction towards you. After that it gets rather complicated. It is like you cannot be on normal terms with them any more because they start flirting, and if you don't respond some become slightly hostile towards you. And then you end up feeling objectified by the guys who start treating your worse because you haven't responded favorably to them, as if your main worth as a person for them was locked in you having a vagina.

I try not to experience any righteous indignation about it as my personal experience tells me that not all males behave this way. But yes there is that certain portion whose primary image of your in their mind is that you're a female that they can potentially have sex with, and when that opportunity is blocked you're no longer of any value to them.

Guys wonder sometimes why girls lie about having a boyfriend or SO but it is because of these kind of experiences that they had to go through and this sort of dehumanizing type of attitude.


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## Rogue Eagle (Oct 14, 2009)

If you have to pay a man in sex for a relationship, find another man to be honest.

Sex shouldn't be the reward for sticking around.

I'd hate to sell myself out just to get some. Some things just aren't worth it.


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## OrangeAppled (Jun 26, 2009)

Humaning said:


> The other person is oblivious of your awareness so you can continue to ignore it if you dont wish for it to manifest into anything solid. Just let it slip outside your radar and they will have to confront the impossibility of their desire. Sure they might say more overt comments, masked in the pretense of jokes, but let these comments be jokes and not innuendo. Ultimately, you should know that you have the power to interpret any comment or gesture in whatever way that you desire, and this shapes your interaction.


I agree with this...it's very easy to be oblivious if you choose to be, and then it usually just goes away without becoming an issue. And if this friend is not a real friend, then he'll likely go away himself if you frustrate his true intentions with obliviousness. Tossing out statements like "you're like a brother to me" clears up confusion pretty fast also.


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## Obsidean (Mar 24, 2010)

Short answer yes, long answer no.


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## WildWinds (Mar 9, 2010)

What an absurd notion. 

Sex isn't just for men. I don't know when the rest of society will catch on. But if a woman uses sex as a reward for a man, or a bait to keep him around, or a man uses women as a sex toy and leaves or cheats when she doesn't put out, then there's something seriously wrong with that relationship. I think we're past the "women need a man to support them" stage, so there's really no excuse.


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## Merov (Mar 8, 2009)

*I love you so much I want to RAPE YOU!!!*



WildWinds said:


> What an absurd notion.
> 
> Sex isn't just for men. I don't know when the rest of society will catch on. But if a woman uses sex as a reward for a man, or a bait to keep him around, or a man uses women as a sex toy and leaves or cheats when she doesn't put out, then there's something seriously wrong with that relationship. I think we're past the "women need a man to support them" stage, so there's really no excuse.


"We" are an absurd nation.

Sex has become the mainstream notion of psy-socio norms. We fuck, because we have come to understand by media and by social circles that THIS is the "glue" that makes or breaks relationsips, friendships.

...to some extent, it's the only real driving force of existance in most mindsets. The NEED to bree...but thats not quite right.

We're not in it to future the next generation. We're in it to FEEL worthy of existence in the first place. The sub-concious ideal to feel in place.

I can only speak for men...but the roles are alot more fucked up than they used to be.

:mellow:


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## Erbse (Oct 15, 2010)

A women that actually considers sex to be a reward for men to stick around somewhat deserves getting abused and seen as a toy since she's asking for it.

Get some self esteem and self confidence and you'll realize there's absolutely no need to associate yourself with that kind of people.


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

Erbse said:


> A women that actually considers sex to be a reward for men to stick around somewhat deserves getting abused and seen as a toy since she's asking for it.
> 
> Get some self esteem and self confidence and you'll realize there's absolutely no need to associate yourself with that kind of people.


I don't believe she deserves it all simply because she has a certain view. It's not a great view and certainly one I would hope no woman today holds, but a lot of women probably do because that's the way they've been brought up.


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## Erbse (Oct 15, 2010)

skycloud86 said:


> I don't believe she deserves it all simply because she has a certain view. It's not a great view and certainly one I would hope no woman today holds, but a lot of women probably do because that's the way they've been brought up.


Well, if you give yourself as a toy you shouldn't surprised if you'll be treated like one. Whether or not you could morally agree with treating a women like a toy is an entirely different question. I for one would not, but I'd also have no interest in such a women to begin with. However, I would not be surprised if others gladly took her up on her offer.

Now, I don't have high opinions of either of the two really, as for me it shows a lack of standard(s).

The way I see it, if you ask to get punched in the face you shouldn't be surprised if you get punched in the face or be upset about it, because it just doesn't make much sense :tongue:


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## snail (Oct 13, 2008)

I do not feel that sex is something to use as a tool for negotiation, as a reward for loyalty, as a manipulative lure, or in any other way that might cheapen it. It is too important for that. I have had five boyfriends so far, and there were two out of those five who never had sex with me. I prefer the kinds of guys who know better than to be sexually pushy. If I want it to happen, I will let it happen, but until that time, I expect my boyfriends to have the patience and respect not to keep trying to get me to change my mind. I don't owe anyone sexual favors. The relationship needs to be strong and secure long before sex gets thrown into it, and if its continuation is hinging on whether or not sex happens, then sex probably isn't the best idea anyhow. 

If you are talking about friends, I don't think any of my friends have expected me to have sex with them, although I have had sex with a couple of them. I did it back in my experimental days, when I was still learning what I wanted. I don't plan to do it again. Friendships are just friendships unless they turn into romantic relationships, in which case sex becomes a possibility. I would gladly get cuddly with a close friend. Long hugs are the best! Just... no sex unless you are my long-term boyfriend or husband.


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## Gracie (Dec 13, 2009)

If sex is the price women pay for a relationship with a man, then I have to say that more transactions involved payment in sex... :crazy:

I love sex. Sure, I'm not into casual sex per se, but I still love sex. I certainly don't consider it an obligation of any variety.

That, and I think Fry had his tongue firmly in his cheek when he said this.


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

Gracie said:


> That, and I think Fry had his tongue firmly in his cheek when he said this.


I think this too. It certainly doesn't sound like the sort of comment he would make seriously.


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## Monte (Feb 17, 2010)

I agree.

And I don't really see how you can think that way Erbse, some women honestly believe that because that could just be how it's worked for them their how life. If I were less prideful, I'd probably see things that way because sex has gotten me plenty, none of which I've asked for. And you can't just say "GET SELF-ESTEEM", it's not something you can just purchase.


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## Erbse (Oct 15, 2010)

Monte said:


> I agree.
> 
> And I don't really see how you can think that way Erbse, some women honestly believe that because that could just be how it's worked for them their how life.* If I were less prideful, I'd probably see things that way because sex has gotten me plenty*, none of which I've asked for. And you can't just say "GET SELF-ESTEEM", it's not something you can just purchase.


but it's something you can just develop (which makes it even cheaper and all the more valuable).

Though, I don't quite understand what you're trying to tell me, if anything the bold passage sort of agrees with my sentiment where I say that I interpret it as a lack of self esteem / confidence.


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## niss (Apr 25, 2010)

Obsidean said:


> Short answer yes, long answer no.


Best answer, so far. I think Fry was accurate and was serious.

The original post is not a concept or statement of how a woman tries to keep a man around. It is a statement of the difference in emphasis that each of the sexes place on emotional attachment and well being, as well as why each of the sexes engages in sexual intercourse, and what conditions need to be met before they could consider physical intimacy.


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