# NT vs. ST - how can you tell the difference?



## thegirlcandance (Jul 29, 2009)

How can you tell the difference between NT and ST when you meet someone? I can easily tell the difference with feeler types, but I always get messed up with the thinker types. 

What are some different characteristics of the two? Perhaps the more obvious ones too.


----------



## Grey (Oct 10, 2009)

It's definitely dependent on the types you're comparing - STPs and NTJs will be miles apart, for example, but STPs and NTPs may be commonly confused. I would say that NTPs are more prone to connecting things with their Ne, whereas STPs may seem more stimulation-focused due to their Se, and NTJs would likely seem very focused but dreamy due to their Ni, and STJs would likely seem very results-based and grounded due to their Si and Te working together. It's not so simple that you can generalize the differences between NTs and STs, though.


----------



## Linesky (Dec 10, 2008)

Grey made some good points which can be tracked down when communicating with or observing a person.

If you've spent some time with a person, afterwards you can try and figure out what seems to be their bigger focus when dealing with information:
NT's initially thrive on theories, while ST's focus more on hands-on implications.
Both can use those two approaches to the same information but you'll usually find the preference is slightly different.


----------



## TreeBob (Oct 11, 2008)

Get an NTP talking about an issue that is bothering them and it is apparent what they are. NTPs can't focus on the present very well. They seem to always obsess and over analyse situations that are bothering them. STPs tend to get upset more at the time and lose interest in it after a short time.


----------



## Functianalyst (Jul 23, 2009)

Grey said:


> It's definitely dependent on the types you're comparing - STPs and NTJs will be miles apart, for example, but STPs and NTPs may be commonly confused.


So you meet someone who appears detached and disconnected but seems quite at ease in discussing complex matters. You also notice this person seems to focus on facts and take an empirical approach to doing things. What type did you just encounter?


----------



## Grey (Oct 10, 2009)

Could be something like an STP (with an Enneagram of Five, to further define), or even a pragmatic NTJ. There are multiple ways to look at it, especially if I just met the person.

Tying it back to the thread, however - yes, there will likely be 'conflicting' information as you try to type someone, especially if you settle between ST and NT. The best solution would be to learn about them more, if you like, and get past the surface and find their motivations for doing as they do.


----------



## Functianalyst (Jul 23, 2009)

It was actually Berens' description of Ti-Se and Ni-Te (or vice-versa) combo mistypes. So to the contrary, NTJs and STPs can easily mistype having similar cognitive functions and both having the same interaction styles. On the other hand, STPs and NTPs only share one function and and different interaction styles. Placing too much emphasis on dichotomies, not the actual functions can be misleading.


----------



## alanv (Aug 29, 2009)

Look at the person's books, or lack thereof, and decide who is more intellectually oriented.


----------



## Korvyna (Dec 4, 2009)

alanv said:


> Look at the person's books, or lack thereof, and decide who is more intellectually oriented.


Can you elaborate on this? Seriously,because that sounds like a stereotype. I don't think this would be a very good indicator of ST or NT... 

I've noticed with me and my NT friend the biggest difference is he analyzes everything to death and I just search for the facts and proof, I don't like theories like he does.


----------



## Functianalyst (Jul 23, 2009)

Korvyna said:


> Can you elaborate on this? Seriously,because that sounds like a stereotype. I don't think this would be a very good indicator of ST or NT...
> 
> I've noticed with me and my NT friend the biggest difference is he analyzes everything to death and I just search for the facts and proof, I don't like theories like he does.


Couldn't be, because I would put my collection of books just on this subject, up against anyone on the forum.


----------



## Linesky (Dec 10, 2008)

alanv said:


> Look at the person's books, or lack thereof, and decide who is more intellectually oriented.


What if this person is too poor to buy a big amount of or qualitative books? Huh? HUH? 

Anyways, even though this kind of thing could also make a point, I don't think this type of research suffices to determine somebody's type. If everyone would go about things that way, more errors could occur.


----------



## peterk (Jan 3, 2010)

according to keirsey's temperment theory NT's all belong to one temperment but ST's can belong to two-- the SJ traditionalist or the SP experiencer.


----------



## OrangeAppled (Jun 26, 2009)

A couple STs I knew who I mistyped (or were mistyped) as NT at first....

*ISTP mistyped as INTJ* - self-typed as INTJ, but greatly preferred hands-on to theory. Very book smart, was working on PhD, but quit to pursue a hands-on artistic job. Had a restless "P" vibe also. Sarcastic humor and pedantic attitude might make you think NT at first. Physical hobbies, eye for dress, and sneering at intellectuals started to be eye-openers.

*ISTJ mistyped at NT* - couldn't figure this guy out, thought he was NT as he was an engineer, had morbid humor, loved nerdy star wars stuff, but no NT type really fit. One day he mentions how he doesn't like poetry because it's too abstract & he's not into abstract stuff - and then bam! I realize that ISTJ fits perfectly (and how did I miss it?). After that, I realized how he loved to discuss the nitty gritty details of everything. I had confused this for analyzing, but it really was not analyzing as it was simply noting.
*
ISTJs mistyped as INTJs* - this is my most common mistyping. I know a lot of crusty ISTJs who have a rebellious streak, but they are definitely not Ni-dom even if they seem atypical SJ. Upon further investigation, this is really a form of conservatism rejecting anything "new". They also like to relate anecdotes much more than INTJs.

I also knew two STPs who I mistyped as NFJs at first :crazy:. They seemed to reflect their shadows at times, which explains that. The ISTP had this Fe-like posturing and the ESTP had a knack for understanding my metaphor which reminded me of my ENFJ friends.


----------



## Perseus (Mar 7, 2009)

*May the Force not Be with Them*



thegirlcandance said:


> How can you tell the difference between NT and ST when you meet someone? I can easily tell the difference with feeler types, but I always get messed up with the thinker types.
> 
> What are some different characteristics of the two? Perhaps the more obvious ones too.


ST will be more forceful than NT. At least directly. To a NF, the difference may not be one of degree, but of subtlety.


----------



## rappf (Feb 14, 2010)

Functianalyst said:


> So you meet someone who appears detached and disconnected but seems quite at ease in discussing complex matters. You also notice this person seems to focus on facts and take an empirical approach to doing things. What type did you just encounter?


Interesting question. (Oh lord, my response is long. Please bear with me.)

This seems like a very developed INTP. While INTPs are more abstract and holistic in their thinking than their ISTP counterparts, they tend to analyze and break things down into (sometimes horrifying) detail in the same way. This would be their dominant *Ti (Analysis)* function, occurring naturally. Their secondary function is *Ne (Interpretation)*, which intuitively serves to make their theories and analysis relevant to context. This is also naturally occurring, but not as strong as *Ti*. On the tertiary level, INTPs indeed have the concrete-based function *Si (Value)* which searches for solid facts and observations to support and provide further structure to their theories. Sensory functions do _not_ come naturally to the INTP as they do to the ISTP, but *Si* can still be fairly strong if developed. *Fe (Connection)* is the last of their conscious battery—communicating the abstractions that they have structured with girders of concrete reality. Like *Si*, *Fe* does not come naturally and must be developed. It's quite easily the INTP's kryptonite (it can seem daunting or unappealing to convert large, unconventionally-organized data-mass into the lingua franca of the world), but when harnessed aptly, they can communicate complex ideas comfortably.

_"… meet someone who appears detached and disconnected …"_
*Ti* accounts for the detachedness and disconnectedness (often mistaken by _perhaps_ Fs and/or SJs as "aloofness"). They're not necessarily uncomfortable in places with many people—they may just be up living in their heads. The introversion of (S)ensors also accounts for a relative dearth of environmental awareness (unless it connects to what they're thinking about).

_"… but seems quite at ease in discussing complex matters."_
With *Ti/Ne*, the INTP's world revolves around finding and dissecting complex matters. It's their comfort zone. With a developed *Fe*, they can convey their comfort in that area.

_"… seems to focus on facts and take an empirical approach to doing things."_
Wild abstractions can't really be directed at a large audience and be expected to be understood entirely, what with the diversity of thinking-styles out there. To direct ideas at a larger audience, a great deal must be reformatted into solid facts and conventional measures. INTPs without a developed *Fe* may realize this, and opt to keep things to themselves (perhaps considering it to be an unnecessary expenditure). INTPs with a developed *Fe* learn to convey their ideas in more concrete, fact-based ways (despite its potential to be terribly taxing). The *Si/Fe* combo, if reasonably developed, can masquerade as an "empirical approach," having roots in the environment (while it probably has roots in the abstract).

So yes—you've probably (or theoretically) met a well-developed INTP. This conclusion is, of course, limited to the set of my own perspective, experience, and interpretation (and certainly some broad assumptions).

I have relative (_very_ relative) grounds as to why this person may not be an ISTP. While ISTPs may have inwardly-directed thinking (*Ti*), they have more situational awareness (*Se*) and probably, to the eye of a stranger, would look more reserved than... absent. SPs—the following is taken from another site, of which I do not know the credibility—_"… generally lack enthusiasm for theoretical and philosophical issues, and less for the endless discussions in which the Intuitive (especially NP) types so frequently engage."_ If you mean "abstract ideas" when you say "complex matters," I don't think the ISTP would have a desire to (or feel comfortable to) discuss them at length, given the lack of general relevance.

Oh yes, I forgot. DISCLAIMER: _I am in no ways a professional Jungian analyst, nor am I a psychologist. I am but an INTP with far too much free time._


----------



## alanv (Aug 29, 2009)

Mercurius said:


> What if this person is too poor to buy a big amount of or qualitative books? Huh? HUH?
> 
> Anyways, even though this kind of thing could also make a point, I don't think this type of research suffices to determine somebody's type. If everyone would go about things that way, more errors could occur.


How expensive is a book, damn. How about a library. I really do think you would notice a difference in possessions. Hobbies are another great way.


----------



## Functianalyst (Jul 23, 2009)

thegirlcandance said:


> How can you tell the difference between NT and ST when you meet someone? I can easily tell the difference with feeler types, but I always get messed up with the thinker types.
> 
> What are some different characteristics of the two? Perhaps the more obvious ones too.


This comes from “Gifts Differing”:

*ST-*Their main interest focuses on facts, because facts can be collected and verified directly by the senses. ST people approach their decisions regarding these facts as impersonal analysis, because of their trust in thinking, with it’s step-by-step logical process of reasoning from cause to effect, from premise to conclusion. In consequence their personalities tend to be practical and matter-of-fact, and their best chances of success and satisfaction lie in fields that demand impersonal analysis of concrete facts, such as economics, law, surgery, business, accounting, production, and the handling of machines and materials.


*NT-*Although they focus on a possibility, they approach it with impersonal analysis. Often they choose a theoretical or executive possibility and subordinate the human element. NTs tend to be logicaland ingenious and are most successful in solving problems in a field of special interest, whether scientific research, electronic computing, mathematics, the more complex aspects of finance, or any sort of development or pioneering in technical areas.


----------



## drsanchez (Feb 20, 2010)

Mercurius said:


> What if this person is too poor to buy a big amount of or qualitative books?


That's the first thing this frugal inxp thought of. And libraries are free. Buying books and displaying them could be just ostentatious.


----------

