# I just love being alive! (ENFP or ISFP?)



## daffodil (Apr 21, 2016)

I've been at this MBTI & Enneagram thing for about 5 years.. you'd think I'd be getting closer, but if anything I'm farther away from narrowing it down!


What aspect of your personality made you unsure of your type?

I'm nearly certain that I'm either an ISFP or an ENFP. And that I'm either a Peacemaker (9) or Enthusiast (7). But, as you can clearly see from that statement, I seem to have 2 very strong aspects of my personality that are somewhat conflicting!! I'm a shy, gentle, kind, nature-loving artist that is unimposing and just wants a life free from conflict where I may enjoy a peaceful happiness and pursue my hobbies (such an ISFP 9w1). But I'm also an easily excited, noisy, adventurous silly ball of childlike energy that gets a thrill from anything spontaneous, that talks before thinking, jumps before looking, bounces around and just never stops getting excited about every.single.thing that this amazing world has to offer (such an ENFP 7w6).


What do you yearn for in life? Why? 

I yearn for happiness. (Why? Why not!? I'm perplexed that anyone would answer otherwise...) also: excitement, passion, love, joy, new experiences, constant growth...


Think about a time where you felt like you were at your finest. Tell us what made you feel that way.

About a year ago, I recall my friends and family all recognizing in me that I was a bright light in their darkest days. That my optimism was radiant and no one could be in my presence without smiling, laughing and overflowing with joy and hope. I'm still that in someways, however, I think I got a little tired of the fact that my impact was temporary and that some people's pessimism and negativity just cannot be permanently extinguished if they don't desire it to be (you can't help someone that refuses to help themselves)... so I kind of gave up on a few friends to focus on maintaining ny own happiness. I don't get near as much affirmation about my radiant personality in present day.

Also, 5th grade was an epic year. I barely remember it.. I think it was just the peak of my childhood awesomeness - I kept everyone happy and laughing while also being kind and gentle.


What makes you feel inferior?

I can be extremely awkward, haha. Also, I just don't have the same idea of success as most people. Which I'm proud of... but sometimes I feel like a waste of a bright mind because I have zero desire to apply myself despite being very capable and smart. I just want to be happy and surrounded by happiness. Pressure, deadlines, corporations... it's a dark cloud and I want sunshine. Yet, why was I given natural physical abilities and intellectual capacities if I'm not going to do anything with it?


What tends to weigh on your decisions? (Do you think about people, pro-cons, how you feel about it, etc.)

I tend to know in my gut what the right choice is in both mind and heart. Thus, I am best at making decisions impulsively in that moment. If you give me too long, I will get confused, second guess myself, pour over the options obsessively without getting any closer to the right answer, and eventually need to sort out my thoughts in pros and cons list and consult all of my closest people seeking affirmation and feedback. (Ultimately, I will typically ignore all that results from that obsession and go with what feels right despite the feedback and pros/cons). End result is usually the same, which is why it's better for me to be impulsive and not waste all that time and brain power!


When working on a project what is normally your emphasis? Do you like to have control of the outcome?

My emphasis is typically whatever artistic touches I can add to the project. Visually pleasing, pleasing to senses particularly sight and sound. I desire creative control over projects.


Describe us a time where you had a lot of fun. How is your memory of it? 

Well, the last few weeks have been awesome! The sun has been out, it's been warm. I've been going for awesome hikes in the mountains with my family, playing on playgrounds, eating delicious strawberries, searching for snails and roley poleys with my son, dancing to loud music in the backyard, exercising, laying out under the beautiful green trees and apple blossoms, making time to draw almost everyday, going on little adventures to celebrate birthdays with friends and family... and this weekend I'm hosting a pedicure party for my best friends, so I've been decorating and making food and treats!!!


When you want to learn something new, what feels more natural for you? (Are you more prone to be hands on, to theorize, to memorize, etc) 

A little bit of everything, but I typically learn best by just jumping right in and doing it myself. Once I've got it down, it feels like muscle memory, even if it's a piece of mental knowledge - it's just in there somewhere and I'm unaware of it but I never really unlearn anything.


How organized do you to think of yourself as? 

I can appear quite organized, but I wouldn't say it's something I value much at all. Like, I write things down on my calendar and my house is kept quite tidy... but I'm not obsessive about keeping things in their place and I'm not much of a detailed person and detailed planner. I just write it down to get it out of my brain and I pick things up to keep things aesthetically pleasing. The overall effect resembles organization and order, but I am not at all obsessive or controlling about it.


How do you judge new ideas? You try to understand the principles behind it to see if they make sense or do you look for information that supports it? 

Um, I'm not really sure... I guess it's kind of more of a knee-jerk reaction for me? I find some ideas exciting, some a little threatening, some uninteresting.


You find harmony by making sure everyone is doing fine and belonging to a giving group or by making sure that you follow what you believe and being yourself?

I think for me it is both. I need to be true to myself, but part of being true to myself is making sure everyone I love deeply is doing fine and feeling involved. Probably because I kind of put myself in others shoes and so I'm always aware of how other people might feel. If everyone is having a good time, I can have a good time... and that's where I shine 


Are you the kind that thinks before speaking or do you speak before thinking? Do you prefer one-on-one communication or group discussions? 

It depends on the situation. In school and work discussions I keep quiet until I'm absolutely certain of what I'll say. In comfortable conversation with my close friends, sometimes it's thoughtful but often times it's exciting word vomit, haha. I prefer one-on-one conversation, absolutely. Or small groups like my family or close friends.

Do you jump into action right away or do you like to know where are you jumping before leaping? Does action speaks more than words? 

Again, if there is an audience, I tend to be hesitant and think it through. If I'm comfortable, I need to just jump right into action. Overthinking is not my friend - I do my best with just leaping and figuring it out as I go. 

I think actions and words that are in agreement speak loudest. Like if you act one way and speak another it's not very trustworthy. You need to do both in line with eachother.


It's Saturday. You're at home, and your favorite show is about to start. Your friends call you for a night out. What will you do?

Since it's impulsive, I'd go out!!! Unless I'm totally completely exhausted and in my jammies. Wait no, that makes it even more impulsive and unexpected and therefore I MUST GO! How exciting! (P.S. if I weren't this way I might never have met my husband - this is exactly the scenario that occurred the night I met him - I was snuggled up in my jammies when I got a call and beat all odds to make it to the night out with friends and he was there.. the rest is history!)


How do you act when you're stressed out? 

I crumple up on a little ball and cry for a bit, maybe snap at someone if they pressure me.... and then pull myself together and fix the problem so I can move on with my life. I'm a doer!

What makes you dislike the personalities of some people? 

Conversation hogs. People who think they are superior. Rude people. Inconsiderate people. People that are super blunt and hurtful and don't even care. People who think that winning a debate matters more than not upsetting people. People that think they are invincible and just act like huge jerks and never seem to get put back in their place. Ugh.


Is there anything you really like talking about with other people? 

Adventures and near-future plans. Dreams, passions, feelings, what makes people tick. What people live for, bleed for, yearn for. Fun, silly, sweet goofy talk. Excitement over silly little joys in the world. Food.


What kind of things do pay the least attention to in your life? 

Details like "did that happen at 3:10 or 3:25?" Ugh, I couldn't care less.


How do your friends perceive you? What is wrong about their perception? What would your friends never say about your personality?

My closest friends perceive me fairly accurately - as a happy, kind, thoughtful, caring, sensitive, creative, enthusiastic, non-sensicle, optimistic person with a heart-of-a-child. My acquaintances tend to have this odd perception of me and would describe me as shy, responsible, detail-oriented, loyal, lawful, smart... but still kind, gentle, artistic. I don't get why people initially perceive me that way... like I'm a cookie cutter good girl, haha. My closest friends would NEVER say that I'm boring, serious, insensitive, anal, pessimistic or confrontational.


What kind of activities do you feel like doing?

Hiking, camping, fishing, dancing, swimming in the ocean, playing, listening to music, traveling, hosting a BBQ, laying out under the stars, dancing in the rain, drawing, reading in a bubblebath... anything and everything!!


So... what do you think?!?! Thanks in advance!!


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## IceCreamSundae (Mar 6, 2016)

I'm also going back and forth between ENFP and ISFP for myself, leaning somewhat toward ISFP, and have been watching your threads to see if you or anyone else can make sense of the characteristics, since I fit perfectly with at least 50 percent of what you've written.

After reading your threads, my guess is that you're Enneagram 7w6, which is my type. From knowing quite a few of both Enneagram types, my experience is that 9's tend to withdraw into themselves when stressed, since they're trying to preserve their inner peace, while 7's tend to leave areas and go to where situations and people are more along the lines of what they're looking for, such as more positivity and enthusiasm. It doesn’t matter if they find what they’re looking for, it’s the inner need that distinguishes the types. Your threads seem to lean in the direction of wanting adventures and being excited about things, as opposed to pushing the world away and hiding within, which sounds more 7-ish. Could Enneagram 9 be the second in your tritype?

I’d also guess you’re ISFP, maybe leaving the E open since you’ve kept ENFP in the running. Most of what you’ve talked about needing is based on what seems, from the outside, to be Se, physical experiences, rather than more conceptual ideas about things. It’s not that ISFPs aren’t conceptual, but their conceptual idea orientation would be secondary to the experiencing of, for example, nature. I have an ENFP herbalist friend who looks at nature as an idea, where everything has the possibility of changing someone’s body and conceptual view of the world. He also takes people parachuting, not for the adrenaline thrill but for how the thrill can help people overcome inner issues. Nature, for him, is a possibility arena for changing the world. When I go into the woods with him, I’m all about the beauty and intricacy of plants, the beauty of the sky, listening to birds sing, which is part of the reason I lean toward ISFP for myself, a hang up being that although I see nature as an artist might, I have no artistic abilities in any field (one book saying ISFPs will find creative and artistic ways of carrying out any business, which I don’t have and don’t know if it’s more or less one of those prerequisites for being ISFP).

Since it's difficult for me to type people over the Internet, I don't know how much help this will be, especially since writing a few paragraphs doesn’t necessarily indicate how someone really thinks. But taking a wild guess from what you’ve written, you seem to be either ISFP or ESFP, Enneagram 7w6.


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## Wisteria (Apr 2, 2015)

> My emphasis is typically whatever artistic touches I can add to the project. Visually pleasing, pleasing to senses particularly sight and sound. I desire creative control over projects.


Overall you are giving me an SF vibe. Your project aims here seem more sensory based, rather than perceiving abstract ideas and associations. You also mentioned that new ideas could possibly feel threatening which could suggest inferior Ne.



> Probably because I kind of put myself in others shoes and so I'm always aware of how other people might feel. If everyone is having a good time, I can have a good time... and that's where I shine


Your answers also seem more Fe, being more influenced by outward feelings and emotions of yourself and others, being aware of how others perceive you and vice versa, and more attuned to the feeling of surrounding. I didn't sense any personal bias with your feeling values. Actually your thread title seems Fe-ish too  Therefore I lean towards SFJ.


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## daffodil (Apr 21, 2016)

GreenSea said:


> I'm also going back and forth between ENFP and ISFP for myself, leaning somewhat toward ISFP, and have been watching your threads to see if you or anyone else can make sense of the characteristics, since I fit perfectly with at least 50 percent of what you've written.


Haha, so you've noticed that I threw several threads out there in search of answers? Hope that wasn't too annoying to see, I was kind of going crazy in my search 
Although I am sorry that you also find yourself confused, I'm very happy to hear that you can relate!



GreenSea said:


> After reading your threads, my guess is that you're Enneagram 7w6, which is my type. From knowing quite a few of both Enneagram types, my experience is that 9's tend to withdraw into themselves when stressed, since they're trying to preserve their inner peace, while 7's tend to leave areas and go to where situations and people are more along the lines of what they're looking for, such as more positivity and enthusiasm. It doesn?t matter if they find what they?re looking for, it?s the inner need that distinguishes the types. Your threads seem to lean in the direction of wanting adventures and being excited about things, as opposed to pushing the world away and hiding within, which sounds more 7-ish. Could Enneagram 9 be the second in your tritype?


I think you are spot-on with your observation and I appreciate your opinion and the knowledge you bring from your previous experiences! I don't know much about tri-types, but yes, I could definitely see 9 in mine!



GreenSea said:


> I?d also guess you?re ISFP, maybe leaving the E open since you?ve kept ENFP in the running. Most of what you?ve talked about needing is based on what seems, from the outside, to be Se, physical experiences, rather than more conceptual ideas about things. It?s not that ISFPs aren?t conceptual, but their conceptual idea orientation would be secondary to the experiencing of, for example, nature.


You are so awesome, seriously, I appreciate your response so much and totally agree with you. It's not that I'm not conceptual, it's just that experiences come first for me, concepts thereafter. Your example of your ENFP friend, plus my observations in checking out the ENFP & INFP forums, is that I can almost-kinda do as they do, think as they think, talk as they talk... but I just don't, naturally. Nature is just nature.. the emotional impact that this simple yet complex world has on me = the deeper meaning for me... it's not about seeing nature as the possibilities behind it, so much as how it just IS, which is incredible in and of itself. Your herbalist friend sounds so interesting and a joy to be around, though!


GreenSea said:


> When I go into the woods with him, I?m all about the beauty and intricacy of plants, the beauty of the sky, listening to birds sing, which is part of the reason I lean toward ISFP for myself, a hang up being that although I see nature as an artist might, I have no artistic abilities in any field (one book saying ISFPs will find creative and artistic ways of carrying out any business, which I don?t have and don?t know if it?s more or less one of those prerequisites for being ISFP).


You and me are made up of the same stuff, I tell you - the way you talk about the woods. Yes, yes! I don't think that artistic ability, and/or interest even, is a prerequisite for being an ISFP. I don't know where I heard this, but I seem to recall being told that the ISFP labels of composer/artist/creator is more to say that they may be drawn to the use of nonverbal expression... They may become a walking expression of their values, feelings, thoughts, passions, etc. through the life they lead. And this may explain why many ISFPs are drawn to expressing themselves through art, through their craft, their occupation, their manner of speaking, the way the dress, the material goods they choose to own... even the way that they walk can be a bit of a nonverbal expression of their self, that they may have trouble communicating to others through words alone. Now, keep in mind that this is not a quote from some knowledgeable source, nor am I, in any way, an expert on.. well, anything, haha. I just hope you don't find yourself discouraged by the artist label . Of course, for me, I think I'm better at art than I am at expressing myself through the way I walk, etc., haha!



GreenSea said:


> Since it's difficult for me to type people over the Internet, I don't know how much help this will be, especially since writing a few paragraphs doesn?t necessarily indicate how someone really thinks. But taking a wild guess from what you?ve written, you seem to be either ISFP or ESFP, Enneagram 7w6.


Oh no, you have been so so helpful and I just very much appreciate that you took the time to read, respond, offer examples - thank you! And I would love to call myself an ISFP 7w6. I think it's definitely the front runner


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## daffodil (Apr 21, 2016)

Hi @%1;! Thank you for your response and for taking the time - I really am thankful!


Wisteria said:


> Overall you are giving me an SF vibe. Your project aims here seem more sensory based, rather than perceiving abstract ideas and associations.


I agree with your assessment!!


Wisteria said:


> Your answers also seem more Fe, being more influenced by outward feelings and emotions of yourself and others, being aware of how others perceive you and vice versa, and more attuned to the feeling of surrounding. I didn't sense any personal bias with your feeling values. Actually your thread title seems Fe-ish too  Therefore I lean towards SFJ.


Fi vs. Fe is something I've pondered often... as I do strongly value harmony, equality, etc. like many Fe users. And I do like affirmation and bouncing my feelings off my nearest and dearest. I'm totally open to discussing Fe vs Fi with you, Wisteria, if you are willing. I'd love to know more and really learn which I use more!! It is confusing for me :-/. The reason I lean toward Fi is that I spend so much time in my head pondering who I REALLY am and whether such-and-such is in-line with my values and what I want for my life. Staying true to myself is very important to me. But so is being kind and friendly. Also, as a child, I had major issues with things like apologizing when I didn't feel that I was wrong. I was raised by an ISFJ father & an INFJ mother, with an ISTP brother & an INFJ sister. Lotta Fe in that house! I'm the only one that would stubbornly stay in my room, grounded, refusing to apologize when I knew deep down that I was being true to myself. I'm a bit ashamed to have been that way, and wish I could have just said the words and moved on... relationships would have stayed stronger. I've gotten better at apologizing by putting myself in another's shoes emotionally. Thus, I'm very good at harmonizing and such. But I have that in me still, to hold my own values despite outside opposition. So, I wonder if what you're seeing is Fi by nature but a type 9 (peacemaker) by nurture? Like, I tried to compensate for my Fi in a family of Fe by becoming a Peacemaker? I'm just pulling this outta nowhere, never thought about it before...

Regarding your guess of SFJ. Let me first say, I love my ISFJ peoples. Particularly my Daddy. I adore them and at the surface level we appear the same. We are both kind, gentle, unimposing, friendly... but after you scratch the surface, you see the differences. My dad clings to routine, familiarity, tradition, time-proven processes. He has stayed with his company for 25 years for fear of the unknown despite the negativity he's gone through at the company. It is an admirable thing, in him... but those are all things I am strongly aversed to and nearly repulsed by in my own life. I crave newness and will seek change at the risk of abandoning decent for something worse.... in the off chance that the new will be better. I just cannot see having Si as my dominant or auxillary....

I hope that the above doesn't offend you by my disagreeing with the SFJ diagnosis, as again, I adore SFJs, and am sincerely so appreciative that you are willing to discuss with me! Honestly, I feel like my life would be a lot easier if I were a SFJ. The SFJs in my life have made such an impact with their nurturing and selfless spirits. To have that in-born nature of being a nurturer/helper type... oh I would love to feel that way naturally. It's just for me, I'd be putting on a mask if I were to try to be an SFJ, and it just wouldn't be sustainable.


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## IceCreamSundae (Mar 6, 2016)

Many people have multiple threads when trying to find their type, and many have multiple threads going in various sections at the same time, all of which make the site more interesting.

Are you sure you aren't an extrovert? Your writing tends towards it, both your style and what you've said. One example of many:



daffodil said:


> I yearn for happiness. (Why? Why not!? I'm perplexed that anyone would answer otherwise...) also: excitement, passion, love, joy, new experiences, constant growth...


My writing style doesn't say who I am in that I’m not as subdued in real life, so maybe yours doesn't quite say who you are, either.

It’s amazing how much we have in common, both in attitudes toward life and specifics, including 5th grade being the high point of our childhood, lol. I’m just going to sit back and let you decide on a type, then I’ll use that one also.


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## daffodil (Apr 21, 2016)

GreenSea said:


> Are you sure you aren't an extrovert? Your writing tends towards it, both your style and what you've said.


I would be okay with an extrovert title, a definitely see your point. Socially, I seem to be ambiverted, leaning slighty toward introversion not by choice but more from shyness and awkwardness, haha. And when discussing functions, I do find myself so drawn to outside stimulation. Like, I feel as though I act first and then come home and reflect later. Does that make sense?

What do you think, for yourself? Do you feel like you could kind of go either way?



GreenSea said:


> It's amazing how much we have in common, both in attitudes toward life and specifics, including 5th grade being the high point of our childhood, lol. I'm just going to sit back and let you decide on a type, then I'll use that one also.


 Thank you for making me smile and feel not so lost -- it's nice to know that even if we don't fit a type, we aren't totally alone in that, haha. And that's funny about 5th grade! That sounds like a good deal (whichever type I end up in, we'll go together)  Let me know if there's anything I can help you with too!


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## daffodil (Apr 21, 2016)

@%1;
For fun, I took a different kind of quiz. On it, I scored low on "inquisitiveness", which seems to tell me that I'm more sensing than intuitive...
Have you taken the big five/sloan?:
http://similarminds.com/bigfive.html


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## IceCreamSundae (Mar 6, 2016)

I’m shy and awkward around maybe 50 percent of people I know, and likely most people think I’m an introvert, unless they know me well. I’d call myself a moderate social introvert, though a strong extrovert in other ways. I’m typically bored looking at my thoughts and need people to talk to in order to work things out. If I try to do it myself, it’s like my brain spins in circles and starts smoking from the effort. I have a high need for outside stimulation and like to be almost constantly talking, learning or doing something fun, with one to many people. I like to go deeply into topics with one person at a time, which sounds more like an MBTI introvert, but my need to look outward, even learning from non-fiction books if I’m somewhere boring, is so strong that I can’t call myself an introvert.

In an MBTI book I read, can’t remember the name, the author said a wildlife photographer, who was frequently by himself, was an extrovert because he preferred looking outward rather than inward. It can be confusing to find the correct type if someone is an extrovert but doesn’t fit the definition and examples of MBTI extroversion. Could the photographer be an ESFP, far from the stereotypical “performer”? Would that be possible? If so, he’d likely have difficulty finding himself in descriptions of that type. So I’m looking at both introverted and extroverted types for myself, since MBTI doesn’t take into account people whose lives or personalities don’t clearly fit I or E. Since N seems stronger than inferior, I’m wondering if I might be ISFP. From descriptions of Ne and Ni, I seem to fit somewhat in both.

I sometimes wonder why, after studying MBTI and functions off and on for years, I don’t even know my dominant. Is it me or Jung with the problem?


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## IceCreamSundae (Mar 6, 2016)

I just took the test and came up with:

Extroversion: 50% 
Orderliness: 32% 
Emotional Stability: 52% 
Accommodation: 32% 
Inquisitiveness: 46%

Your Global5/SLOAN type is RCUEN
Your Primary type is Egocentric

Not like me. The questions they asked missed who I am, so the results weren't accurate. As a couple examples, I'm very accommodating with some people, not with others, and I try to spend as much time as possible with people I like to accommodate, which doesn't include my family or acquaintances but does include work and good friends, so where should I score? My inquisitive level is much higher, but not with the examples they gave.

I'm not sure that low inquisitiveness equals N, since S's can be inquisitiveness in their areas of interest.


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## Valtire (Jan 1, 2014)

Gotta agree with Wisteria. Seems very Si-Fe.


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## daffodil (Apr 21, 2016)

Fried Eggz said:


> Gotta agree with Wisteria. Seems very Si-Fe.


May I ask - are you two talking about socionics Si-Fe?


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## DOGSOUP (Jan 29, 2016)

daffodil said:


> I'm also an easily excited, noisy, adventurous silly ball of childlike energy that gets a thrill from anything spontaneous, that talks before thinking, jumps before looking, bounces around and just never stops getting excited about every.single.thing that this amazing world has to offer (such an ENFP 7w6).


Seems more like Fe... or maybe Se. Ne is really not like this. It tends to fly in different speheres, different worlds all together.

I read your former thread and thought ISFP... You do focus a lot on sensations and experiencing things, and they seem to make you really happy  This one in particular felt warm:



> Well, the last few weeks have been awesome! The sun has been out, it's been warm. I've been going for awesome hikes in the mountains with my family, playing on playgrounds, eating delicious strawberries, searching for snails and roley poleys with my son, dancing to loud music in the backyard, exercising, laying out under the beautiful green trees and apple blossoms, making time to draw almost everyday, going on little adventures to celebrate birthdays with friends and family... and this weekend I'm hosting a pedicure party for my best friends, so I've been decorating and making food and treats!!!


My dilemma lies in... that's it, Fe. You are communicating shared valuation, all the time. Even the language you use is very expressionate (though, we must not type people based on language they use).

If you do identify strongly to the idea of NFP, I would suggest you consider the already suggested ISFJ just in case... what is it about Si that you don't identify with? How do you perceive the difference between Se and Si?


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## Valtire (Jan 1, 2014)

DOGSOUP said:


> Seems more like Fe... or maybe Se. Ne is really not like this. It tends to fly in different speheres, different worlds all together.


I like Jung's description of Ne as opportunity seekers looking to open every door vs Se who are experience seekers looking to explore and try and test everything.



daffodil said:


> May I ask - are you two talking about socionics Si-Fe?


I'm using roughly the same definitions as the author of this MBTI book:



GreenSea said:


> In an MBTI book I read, can’t remember the name, *the author said a wildlife photographer, who was frequently by himself, was an extrovert because he preferred looking outward rather than inward.* It can be confusing to find the correct type if someone is an extrovert but doesn’t fit the definition and examples of MBTI extroversion. Could the photographer be an ESFP, far from the stereotypical “performer”? Would that be possible? If so, he’d likely have difficulty finding himself in descriptions of that type. So I’m looking at both introverted and extroverted types for myself, since MBTI doesn’t take into account people whose lives or personalities don’t clearly fit I or E. Since N seems stronger than inferior, I’m wondering if I might be ISFP. From descriptions of Ne and Ni, I seem to fit somewhat in both.
> 
> I sometimes wonder why, after studying MBTI and functions off and on for years, I don’t even know my dominant. Is it me or Jung with the problem?


The part in bold is how I would type I vs E.


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## daffodil (Apr 21, 2016)

DOGSOUP said:


> Seems more like Fe... or maybe Se. Ne is really not like this. It tends to fly in different speheres, different worlds all together.


 Great to know! I really think that you are onto something with me by saying that I don't seem to use Ne like I had previously thought... rather Se.... or Fe. I don't understand Ne, at all. Like, I do get excited about possibilities sometimes, but mainly to act on them, not to get excited about an idea... I am honestly much more concerned with what is than what "could be" beyond options like we COULD go on this vacation, or we COULD throw this party. (Following up by a strong effort to see it happen). But again, topic matter being real, realistic, what exists, not what could exist in the imagination....



DOGSOUP said:


> I read your former thread and thought ISFP... You do focus a lot on sensations and experiencing things, and they seem to make you really happy


 Yes, yes, yes! I get such a thrill from visually pleasing things, sounds, smells, textures, tastes! And physical movement, exercise, fresh air. I mean, gosh, my phone is full of hundreds of pictures of little snails, bugs, a water droplet on a leaf.... I get such a thrill out of these little tiny pleasures in life! I definitely thought this was Se.... but maybe it's Si? Again, I don't understand Si, hah. Or, maybe it's just a little quirk about me to enjoy this stuff so much.



DOGSOUP said:


> My dilemma lies in... that's it, Fe. You are communicating shared valuation, all the time. Even the language you use is very expressionate (though, we must not type people based on language they use).


 Okay, yeah, I can definitely see this as an argument for Fe. Again, very confused. I am absolutely a feeler. No doubt about that. But Fe or Fi, oh dear. The strong point that I see for Fe is that I'm a total people pleaser, a giver, that is painfully used to getting walked on. But, like, I grew a backbone and started standing up for myself long ago. I really strive for balance in relationships. That said, I'm typically the more generous and giving person in the friendship that puts in more effort. Sigh. Maybe I'm still not getting what Fe is all about, but definitely wouldn't say it's not an option for me. 



DOGSOUP said:


> If you do identify strongly to the idea of NFP, I would suggest you consider the already suggested ISFJ just in case... what is it about Si that you don't identify with? How do you perceive the difference between Se and Si?


I'll take a look for sure - do you have any links or anything I might be able to look at that will really help me to understand Si and the SFJ types?


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## daffodil (Apr 21, 2016)

Okay, @DOGSOUP, @Wisteria & @Fried Eggz -- I give, lol... let's talk about Fe! ... sorry that I was resistant at first. Please feel free to shoot me whatever you have that might help me understand Fe and Si better. Honestly, I've always just ignored SFJ as a possibility, so I know very little about those type (beyond adoring it in others and thinking there was no way I was one).


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## IceCreamSundae (Mar 6, 2016)

Since I'm following this thread closely in order to help find my own type and have more questions than answers, are Si/Se being used more along Keirsey/MBTI (stabilizer vs. sensation seeker) or Socionics (enjoyment/comfort vs. force/will). I'm not sure if I have those right, but something along those lines. Not being very familiar with the system, but Socionics' Se seems more Te, or even a new function, rather than being closely related to MBTI Se.

Also, I thought Fi vs. Fe describes how people make decisions, using their own vs. culture's values, not what they communicate. Some people talk a lot, and in a personalized manner, and wouldn't Fi values be discussed along with everything else? In other words, does the E in general mean the person will discuss aspects of that function and with I it's too personal to discuss, or do E and I mean where they go to get information/make decisions, or is it both? And is this from official MBTI or talked about elsewhere?

The OP talks quite a bit about what she personally enjoys, which would seem more Fi. Do decisions made with general fun and enjoyment in mind count as decisions used to verify type, or do the latter decisions only incorporate more "serious" subjects as part of the process? I'm not discounting fun and enjoyment, since to share that with others is an important aspect of life, I'm just trying to find out if it's included in verifying type.

As I said, lots of questions..


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## daffodil (Apr 21, 2016)

Okay, I know this maybe isn't the best source, but I really like this site: Funky MBTI in Fiction
According to the following breakdown for an ESFJ, I could totally be one...

Dominant Fe (EXFJ): I am warm and enjoy taking care of people. I consider how decisions will impact everyone involved. Is there anything I can get you, to make you feel more comfortable? I can’t be with people who don’t treat others with respect. I want to acknowledge not only what each of you has done in the group as individuals, but also talk about what we can do, or have done, together! You did an awesome job with that; you are so talented. I don’t approve of what you are doing, because it’s inappropriate and will have a bad impact on others, but I am willing to talk it through and will accept your apology, without any bad feelings. I feel so at ease offering affirmation, and am deeply hurt when others don’t do the same. I want everyone to be happy, but am not afraid to say what I feel if I need to.

Auxiliary Si (ESXJ): The last time I tackled this project, using this technique worked, so I feel confident in my ability to succeed using the same technique. This restaurant is laid out different than it was the last time I was here; those tables were on the patio, and they had red curtains, not green. I’m happy to provide you with the details of why I am making this decision. I recognize this street, so I know where to turn! This holiday is meaningful to me, because it allows me to connect to my family or my culture. I’m disappointed if we can’t celebrate it together every year. If we’re going to do this project, let’s do research to see how others have done it before we start. I like to reflect on my own past experiences when making decisions in the present, and believe I can learn from others’ mistakes.

Tertiary Ne (ESXJ): Oh, that new idea is interesting! I’d like to talk about it with you! But I need to be somewhere in twenty minutes, so let’s keep it on track as much as we can. It feels like you are not tied to reality with this idea; can we pull it back to something tangible? I think I have several ideas as to what really happened back there. This discovery may help me discover my greater purpose in life. I suspected this was going to happen…

Inferior Ti (EXFJ): I want to be objective in our conversation, but I’m having a hard time not feeling upset that you have shut me out. I don’t feel comfortable discussing this person like they are a thing or a problem to be solved. How can you be so detached? That feels heartless to me! I want to get things right, so I will study this until I understand it, then take what I know and use it to help others reach their own understanding. I’m okay with calling a problem a problem, and willing to analyze it.


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## daffodil (Apr 21, 2016)

But that Si..... I think most everyone who knows me in real life would comment that I am not routine and I love change....


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## IceCreamSundae (Mar 6, 2016)

Have you read "Gifts Differing" or "Introduction to Type," Sixth Edition, both by Isabel Briggs-Myers? If you want to know for sure if you're ESFJ according to official MBTI, those would be the reference materials to read.

If you are ESFJ, we have some outward characteristics in common, but not the way we see the world. I'd be curious as to whether you think this is your type after verifying with other sources. And if you are, I'm impressed that people picked up you're Fe, though I still don't understand the characteristics to take into account.

Edit to add: or ISFJ


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## DOGSOUP (Jan 29, 2016)

daffodil said:


> For myself, I'd very much like to come to a conclusion and decision. And I believe that to be ENFJ. The stacking just makes so much sense - I extravert feeling & sensing (feeling > sensing), introvert intuition/depth and analyzing (intuition > thinking, overindulgent or avoidant relationship with Ti). Fe>Ni>Se>Ti. It makes sense behaviorally, cognitively, socially, comparitively.. really throughout my whole life....


Great, it ought to make sense! Happy for you! Come hang out with us on the ENFJ forum! Lots of people there with great insight on this type. Then we'll know for sure  

(Way too many exclamation marks above lol)


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## daffodil (Apr 21, 2016)

DOGSOUP said:


> Great, it ought to make sense! Happy for you! Come hang out with us on the ENFJ forum! Lots of people there with great insight on this type. Then we'll know for sure
> 
> (Way too many exclamation marks above lol)


I am prone to over usage of exclamation points myself! 
Thank you for the help and encouragement - I'm looking forward to checking out the ENFJ forum. (Yay!)


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## IceCreamSundae (Mar 6, 2016)

daffodil said:


> @GreenSea - have you taken the cognitive function quizzes on similarminds, keys2cognition & celebritytypes? I took them for fun this morning, and my average results are both humorous and frustrating:
> Fe 91%
> Fi 76%
> Ne, Ni & Se tied at 65%
> ...


I tried to take Celebrity Types test but for the first 10 items both choices were about equal, so I didn't finish the test. Here are the other two, and the average.

----------

Similar Minds

Ne - 75%
Se - 75%
Ni - 70%
Ti - 65%
Fi - 45%
Te - 40%
Fe - 35%
Si - 20%

Based on your results your type is likely - unclear.

Keys2Cognition

Fi - 43%
Ti - 42%
Se - 37%
Ne - 29%
Ni - 29%
Te - 24%
Fe - 19%
Si - 17%

By focusing on the strongest configuration of cognitive processes, your pattern of responses most closely matches individuals of this type: ISFP. Corresponding best-fit temperaments based on your profile: Improviser; secondly Theorist; then Catalyst; and lastly, Stabilizer.

Average

Se - 56%
Ti - 54%
Ne - 52%
Ni - 50%
Fi - 44%
Te - 32%
Fe - 27%
Si - 19%

----------

According to the tests, I'm clearly not Si, Fe or Te, so J seems to be out as an extroverted judging function. I've taken cognitive tests off and on in the past and Ne, Se, Ti and Fi take turns being at the top, so in theory I’m P. It would be easy to say I'm ISFP, especially because of my earlier post where I said there's something attractive about that type but not being sure why. I do think I'm more likely F than T because though I do have a decent T, especially when making important decisions, my first meeting with anyone and anything is based more on connection than analysis. I do have a strong connection with plants and animals and will talk to them, and even an awe and connection with such things as clouds. I sound like @airwren's ENFJ mother-in-law where I'm thrilled about this and that in nature and am constantly looking at clouds, birds, bears, and especially wild and domestic flowers and wanting to share my love of them with people, but though I'm an extrovert and need at least one person, I don't "do" Fe with people except in a short-term superficial sense, since it's the polite and caring thing to do in order to not leave people feeling bad about themselves, and in a much stronger sense with significant others, though even there I can struggle with what’s good for me versus what’s good for them. The tests base Fe on connections with people, so I'm not sure where that leaves me. I have some Fe friends who look to their various cultures to know what to believe in, and I don't, unless looking at only generalized spiritual values that I learned when I was younger and trying my best to follow them, without always success , counts as Fe. But I don't look like Fe because I so often go my own way and am into a lot of change, so it's difficult to know what's going on.


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## IceCreamSundae (Mar 6, 2016)

DOGSOUP said:


> That is pretty much how it manifests, I guess. Both can be opportunistic enough. Ne in the realm of possibilities and Se in actual fluid reality.
> 
> ….
> 
> ...


An N can build a life around the physical environment, an S around ideas, a T can be a psychologist, an F a physicist. You can’t tell type by what people are doing with their lives, only by how they think. That’s been confusing me, since I spend a lot of time doing both S and N activities, even T and F, yet I can’t get at any consistent thought patterns. I wish I had a better idea how various types actually think about things. I can say that I have strong N and S sides and that I don’t take N into my physical experiences, where I very much live for the moment, and I don’t take S into the N aspects of my life, where I’m very open minded and have a strong interest in investigating fringe aspects of life, whether they seem to make outward sense or not.

I’m more of a “is that good or bad,” “is that fun or not” type of person, so I’m assuming I’m F. The only aspect of my personality that stands in the way is that after I engage in F, I love to analyze things. I’d be better at a job where I need to analyze in depth or deconstruct things, feeling much more comfortable with those skills than the skills that typically go with F, such as being good with people or being creative or artistic. With the Holland Codes, I’d be Investigative, without limiting my investigations to either ideas or the physical environment. I don’t really have a secondary Holland Code skill, in particular. Edit: I'm just learning about Holland Codes and now realize Social is second, Realistic is third.

In “Introduction to Type,” by Isabel Briggs Myers, 6th Edition, the booklet they give out with the official test, it says: “ISFPs live in the present with a quiet sense of joyfulness,” and they are “trusting, kind and considerate; sensitive and gentle.” I’ve consistently seen FPs described as being the gentle types and ISFPs reported as struggling with a sense of worth. That seems to go counter to Se in Socionics, where force and will are the two characteristics most frequently brought up. I’m probably somewhere between MBTI and Socionics, maybe leaning toward MBTI in terms of my dealings with other people.

You brought up an interesting thought with regard to Se: “More willing to actually harness the sensory realm, to achieve things in it.” I’ve wonder if that’s a requirement for being MBTI Se, or just a possibility and could apply equally to Ne’s at times? Also, the world “prefer” is frequently used and I haven’t been sure if that has any connection to skill or competence or if it isn’t a requirement. This forum seems to lean in the direction of skill and competence being an inherent aspect of one’s type. I seem best at observing, analyzing and reporting what I’ve seen, objective in analyzing and reporting but typically with some kind of strong emotional connection to the subject matter, from studying Bigfoot to learning and telling people about personality typing to watching when and where flowers are blooming to analyzing motor boats and hiking equipment.

So what type is most likely to observe, analyze and report on a wide variety of physical and idea-oriented subjects, even very fringe ideas where proof isn’t possible at this point, in an F-oriented, excited, fun manner, while consistently being objective in the analysis, but being thoughtful of people and not liking confrontation? 

I forgot about the N question! Don’t know if this helps, but I read widely in any subject I’m interested in, one book bringing up another book, which I’ll read, which connects to this subject, which I’ll also read, all the while trying to gain an overarching insight, a bottom-line truth. If I can’t, I’ll continue studying off and on and leave the information open. People open up possibilities for me by reading or talking, but I don’t seem to come up with a lot of possibilities on my own, or at least maybe not enough to be Ne dominant. I just synthesize and simplify others’ information, if possible. It’s difficult to know which N I use, since I don’t know how other people think so don’t really have a comparison. There are a lot of theoretical descriptions out there, but few that are of help when trying to see the pattern of one’s own thoughts when the thought patterns aren’t clear.



daffodil said:


> I am prone to over usage of exclamation points myself!


Me too! Mainly in real life though, since I used to post a lot on a T-oriented forum and had to let exclamation points go when writing. I also tried to learn to be brief and concise, but that part of the lesson didn’t take.  Thanks for letting me use your thread for some questions about my own type.


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## daffodil (Apr 21, 2016)

@GreenSea
Disclaimer - please take any advice I give as a friendly assistance, not actual knowledge. I don't want to misguide you because I know very little and am often confused...

It looks to me like your Ti is just as strong as your Fi. And I seem to detect Ti in your writing... (again, review disclaimer). I know Fi & Ti can often get mixed up and present themselves similarly. May be something to take a further look at! Maybe someone here can enlighten us on the similarities and differences? 

I know you say F>T, and I wouldn't argue with that, especially if your gut tells you that F seems nore fitting. But, for funsies, have you ever taken a look at STP types? I only ask because my brother is an ISTP and we have a great deal in common despite being seemingly totally different types. Possibly because we share all functions but in an opposite order...

I hope I'm not misguiding you, haha


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## DOGSOUP (Jan 29, 2016)

Something about Ti and Fi....

Fi and Ti are similar in the sense that they are both judging functions with internal focus.

This means that valuation = F or logical reasoning = T take place internally. For instance, Fi might refuse to compromise or accomodate to shared values, because it is considered immoral or otherwise dislikable. Ti might have aversion for group-thinking, because it is capable of creating consistent reasoning on its own.

Fe and Te are objective, aim for consensus, but are willing to compromise if proven incorrect. "There is no reason to argue, since logic of the situation is obvious." Or. "There is no reason to argue, since the right moral judgement in this situation is obvious." Everyone should be able to see what makes sense and what most certainly does not.

Not that Fe/Te is always _fully_ objective or always correct, but it makes fast judgement calls based on external situation, evidence and "what consensus is/should be". Fi/Ti ruminates and seeks the perfect value/logic.


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## daffodil (Apr 21, 2016)

GreenSea said:


> So what type is most likely to observe, analyze and report on a wide variety of physical and idea-oriented subjects, even very fringe ideas where proof isn't possible at this point, in an F-oriented, excited, fun manner, while consistently being objective in the analysis, but being thoughtful of people and not liking confrontation?


Thought this would be a fun question for someone (not me) to answer


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## IceCreamSundae (Mar 6, 2016)

daffodil said:


> Thought this would be a fun question for someone (not me) to answer


Yes! That quote seems to be all over the place, covering all functions. 

I'm going to answer the other two posts as soon as possible, hopefully a little later today.


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## IceCreamSundae (Mar 6, 2016)

daffodil said:


> @GreenSea
> Disclaimer - please take any advice I give as a friendly assistance, not actual knowledge. I don't want to misguide you because I know very little and am often confused...
> 
> It looks to me like your Ti is just as strong as your Fi. And I seem to detect Ti in your writing... (again, review disclaimer). I know Fi & Ti can often get mixed up and present themselves similarly. May be something to take a further look at! Maybe someone here can enlighten us on the similarities and differences?
> ...


I like all guesses! Even if they aren’t correct, further insights might come up. I’ve looked seriously at every type, even the SJs at one point, though they’re the least likely type.

For every type, I have a list of reasons I can’t be that type as well a list of reasons I might be. For ISTP, I’ll mainly list reasons that seem more against the type.

When I was young, I had a lot of fears connected to various physical activities. I was always chosen last for sports, though if sports weren’t connected to teams, I’d do better, such as climbing 100-foot trees. I did grow up engaging in a lot of individual sports and I still love them. Females and some males I work with think I’m nuts for engaging in some of the activities I enjoy, such as, very occasionally, day hiking 15 miles or backcountry skiing by myself, if I can’t find a partner. Since so many people are braver and much more coordinated than I am, it sometimes seems I must be an N bumbling around in the mountains thinking I’m Se, and I wonder if the word “prefer” is enough to have me being Se, or if there should be more confidence and coordination connected with being that type. To see where I stand with regard to Se, do I compare myself to people who do mountain and other individual sports or those who don’t? Since I can’t figure it out within my mind, I’m reduced to watching other people’s behavior. 

I’m very communicative and talk a lot, if I trust someone. I didn’t talk or share much while I was growing up, communication was something I had to learn, but now it’s a high priority. I have no problem talking about anything to a significant other and can go on at length about my emotions or thoughts on any subject, though I won’t do that with just anyone.

The stereotype for ISTP I’ve frequently come across is a taciturn 20-something who is fearless, parachutes and bungee jumps every day for fun, engages in martial arts, works with heavy equipment, and is in the military. I know we’re not supposed to pay attention to stereotypes, but sometimes they’re there for a reason, and how far off can I be before I’m not that type?

I’m not sure if functions and MBTI are always equivalent, partly because MBTI puts the description of type before the letters. It seems someone could actually be a T, but if they have a personality more along the lines of F, maybe because of behavioral characteristics or life interests, they would type as an F. I’m not saying it happens often, but it could happen, and I sometimes wonder if I’m a T with F characteristics, or vice versa. I seem to care more about other people’s experiences they receive while interacting with me than a T typically seems to, but tend to look at people issues with more of a T perspective than an F typically would, but I’m not sure about anything at this point. When the question is asked about whether truth or harmony is more important to be, I’d say they’re equal, truth being more important for me inside, but not wanting to lose harmony with others over what I perceive as the truth.

I posted on another forum for a while and though I started out thinking I might be T, so many people said in both PMs and posts that I’m F that I started looking at aspects of my personality that are F-like, and thought they might be correct. I’m like, “This is great!” “This is so much fun!” “Can you believe the beautiful sky?” “The flowers are amazing!” I don’t share all emotions, but I do share enthusiasm fairly easily in real life, though not on the Internet.

Is your brother at all like this? And can he easily be enthusiastic? And, for example, could there be an ISTP chef who isn’t comfortable with quite a few aspects of the physical world but is great in the kitchen?

I typed up the post below to DOGSOUP before this one, since the ideas starting flowing first. Sometimes it seems I think like a Ti, but my outward personality doesn’t necessarily align with that function, so it’s somewhat confusing.

Yay! 15 posts! But I have nothing to say in PM, lol.


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## IceCreamSundae (Mar 6, 2016)

DOGSOUP said:


> Something about Ti and Fi....
> 
> Fi and Ti are similar in the sense that they are both judging functions with internal focus.
> 
> ...


Thank you! That’s a good way of describing those functions. I talked a little about Ti/ISTP in answer to daffodil’s post above.

The aspect of other people’s personalities that upsets me most is the lack of logic when working out decisions. They can come up with any answer, but if they’re trying to come across as logical when there is no logic in their argument, I go through a lot of inner eye rolling and irritation and won’t argue with them. The fact that I’m so upset by this almost sounds like an F value. As for F, imo it would be best if people would follow a set of values that would bring help to as many life forms as possible and harm to the least number, while not applying the values to just their group, such as only within a family or friends group or within some religious cults. If someone can’t come up with a valid set of values, use the heart of most religions to get values, and don’t pretend to be following spirituality in the service of harming others. When I think about people’s values I don’t agree with, I don’t use words like “lacking compassion” or “bad,” I phrase it more like they aren’t thinking straight, and have trouble understanding why and how they can fool themselves to that extent.

So those are my thoughts on T and F, whatever that means for my type. Looking at what I wrote, “they can come up with any answer” as long as it’s logical seems more Ti. My preferring that people follow some sort of outside values code, since I don’t necessarily trust what people come up with for themselves, seems more Fe. Does that sound correct? Or not? Could it instead mean that I value, per Fi, that people make logic sense and that they use universal values, the latter of which I’ve heard described as Fi? When I need to work out a value, I go through, “What conclusion would a spiritual master come to?” I don’t know if Fi’s or Fe’s come to their values along those lines. Would this be more personalized, working it out for myself through the guise of using a spiritual master, or would it be more Fe in that I’ve read somewhat widely in the spiritual area and am going to that outside group to get my values? Because of the way I come up with my values, typing for F doesn’t seem straightforward. If anyone has thoughts on this, I’d appreciate it!


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## DOGSOUP (Jan 29, 2016)

@GreenSea, I can see reasons for Ti and Fe, but I'll have to go through this whole thread with time, if it's okay for you? Typing is so hard sometimes.


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## daffodil (Apr 21, 2016)

@DOGSOUP
You are awesome 
@GreenSea
Good luck!!


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## IceCreamSundae (Mar 6, 2016)

@DOGSOUP, sure! I know it can be difficult to type people, especially over the Internet, and my characteristics do seem all over the place. If you don't come up with anything we can let this thread go, unless daffodil wants to revive it for her own use.


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## daffodil (Apr 21, 2016)

Oh no..... I'm having a midweek crisis!!! *panic* - I was so happy with the ENFJ type for a few days, but...

I have been reading up on Ni. I'm pretty sure there is no way Ni can be my auxillary . My brain doesn't work that way - I never know the truth or answer with any certainty at all, haha. I still don't understand how Ni works, but I'm pretty sure it isn't in my top 2 afterall!

I'm back to the original dilemma - NFP or SFP. Anyone have good descriptions of inferior Te, inferior Ni & inferior Si wold be like?

Feels good to be back to where I apparently belong - xxFP & confused


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## IceCreamSundae (Mar 6, 2016)

Your posts always make me :laughing: Sorry about your identity crisis.

I was just PMing to you that Te and Si were low on my stack, then I got pulled away before I could send it. Maybe we are the same type after all? 

I don't think I've ever posted, in my entire life, without changing somewhere between one word and 75 percent of the post.


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## DOGSOUP (Jan 29, 2016)

@GreenSea @daffodil

My only tip at the moment for you is to extensively read Jungian functions.

See which is the easiest to understand. Which you might use. Which seem difficult and elusive? Which do you conflict with?

I don't know if you've read this description of inferior functions, but you might find them helpful. There are even nice quotes from Jung


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## daffodil (Apr 21, 2016)

@DOGSOUP;
Thank you for this!!! I'll look at these and ponder through the day. Intitially, these are my thoughts, for me, after a brief review...

Which is the easiest to understand? Se, Ne, Si, Fe, Te, Ti.... in that order. Those ones just make sense to me in their definitions and in connecting these to people I know IRL... not necessarily saying I use them. I just can understand them and have a decent grasp on what they mean and could apply examples to them without effort.

Which might you use? I might use Se, Ne, Si, Te, Fe & Fi. I don't think I have Ni.... and actually, Ti doesn't really resonate much for me. Certainly not with any confidence or trust in a use of Ti for myself.

Which seem difficult and elusive? Ni seems the most elusive for me. Followed by Fi, in this particular description and in trying to determine whether my IRL people use this function.

Which do you conflict with? I don't really think I conflict with any of these... pretty sure I use them all to some extent... again, Ni and Ti seem weakest for me, or difficult to think of real life examples for me.

Regarding inferior functions from
this description.... 
I believe my inferior is either Si or Ti. Not Te, so that may rule out ISFP & INFP for me - so thank you for that!! Also, inferior Ni did not ring a bell for me at all, so ESFP may be ruled out as well. Brings me back to looking at ENFP vs ENFJ 

Thank you greatly for your help. Seriously, you are so kind!


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## daffodil (Apr 21, 2016)

Looking at Fi more closer, I do understand it. Just that brief definition didn't seem very clear. Still a very strong possibility that I use Fi as auxillary.

Here is the longer description:

Introverted Feeling* - (Fi)

It is often hard to assign words to the values used to make introverted Feeling judgments since they are often associated with images, feeling tones, and gut reactions more than words.

As a cognitive process, it often serves as a filter for information that matches what is valued, wanted, or worth believing in.

There can be a continual weighing of the situational worth or importance of everything and a patient balancing of the core issues of peace and conflict in life's situations.

We engage in the process of introverted Feeling when a value is compromised and we think, "Sometimes, some things just have to be said."

On the other hand, most of the time this process works "in private" and is expressed through actions.

It helps us know when people are being fake or insincere or if they are basically good. It is like having an internal sense of the "essence" of a person or a project and reading fine distinctions among feeling tones.

http://www.cognitiveprocesses.com/Cognitive-Functions/Introverted-Feeling.cfm


Vs. Fe:
Extraverted Feeling* - (Fe)

The process of extraverted Feeling often involves a desire to connect with (or disconnect from) others and is often evidenced by expressions of warmth (or displeasure) and self-disclosure.

The "social graces," such as being polite, being nice, being friendly, being considerate, and being appropriate, often revolve around the process of extraverted Feeling.

Keeping in touch, laughing at jokes when others laugh, and trying to get people to act kindly to each other also involve extraverted Feeling.

Using this process, we respond according to expressed or even unexpressed wants and needs of others.

We may ask people what they want or need or self-disclose to prompt them to talk more about themselves.

This often sparks conversation and lets us know more about them so we can better adjust our behavior to them.

Often with this process, we feel pulled to be responsible and take care of others' feelings, sometimes to the point of not separating our feelings from theirs.

We may recognize and adhere to shared values, feelings, and social norms to get along.

http://www.cognitiveprocesses.com/Cognitive-Functions/Extraverted-Feeling.cfm


That's still my hang up. I use BOTH!!


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## daffodil (Apr 21, 2016)

For myself, per these extended definitions... I'm feeling:

Ne>Ni
Si>Se (much to my surprise!!)
Fi & Fe equal
Te>Ti, maybe, but ever-so-slightly

Ne>Si, F>T

So, ENFP Ne-Fi-Te-Si or INFP Fi-Ne-Si-Te works. Or, possibly ESFJ Fe-Si-Ne-TI if and ONLY if Si can be auxillary WITHOUT a preference for routine, structure, comfort & predictability (I'm still skeptical, even though this description totally works for me): http://www.cognitiveprocesses.com/Cognitive-Functions/Introverted-Sensing.cfm

Looking a Kiersey temperaments, I certainly identify with 
NF(idealist)>SJ(guardian).... 
FP(gentle types)>FJ(benevolent administrators)... 
NP(adaptable innovator)>SJ(realistic decision maker), 
etc.

Champion(ENFP)>Healer(INFP)>Provider (ESFJ)


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## IceCreamSundae (Mar 6, 2016)

DOGSOUP said:


> @GreenSea daffodil
> 
> My only tip at the moment for you is to extensively read Jungian functions.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the links! I've been gone, so I'll go through them this weekend.


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## DOGSOUP (Jan 29, 2016)

daffodil said:


> For myself, per these extended definitions... I'm feeling:
> 
> Ne>Ni
> Si>Se (much to my surprise!!)
> ...


Aux Si isn't neccessarily bound to any of those things... it approaches things based on subjective experience. I'll try and find a good description of it.

ESFJs I know aren't rigid, traditional... besides, they absolutely love when somebody offers them something unpredictable and flips their world upside down (I blame their tertiary Ne for this). 

Socionics presents a model where an F type uses both Fe and Fi, but one is consciously favored and the other is devalued (can't present myself as an expert on Socionics though, sorry!)

Though I am curious to hear why you chose Te over Ti?


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## daffodil (Apr 21, 2016)

DOGSOUP said:


> Aux Si isn't neccessarily bound to any of those things... it approaches things based on subjective experience. I'll try and find a good description of it.


 You are too kind, thanks for your ongoing feedback 


DOGSOUP said:


> ESFJs I know aren't rigid, traditional... besides, they absolutely love when somebody offers them something unpredictable and flips their world upside down (I blame their tertiary Ne for this).


 Great to know!


DOGSOUP said:


> Socionics presents a model where an F type uses both Fe and Fi, but one is consciously favored and the other is devalued (can't present myself as an expert on Socionics though, sorry!)


 Very interesting! I am surprised that more F dominant types don't struggle with Fe vs Fi.... I relate so much to both :-/


DOGSOUP said:


> Though I am curious to hear why you chose Te over Ti?


 I'm out of town and on my phone at the moment, but will reply this afternoon with the descriptions and which parts of Ti & Te I relate to and which parts don't. Thanks again for not giving up on me


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## daffodil (Apr 21, 2016)

DOGSOUP said:


> I am curious to hear why you chose Te over Ti?


The things that I do will be *bold*, things I may do but cannot think if a real life example will be _italic_... regular text doesn't seem to apply to me.

Introverted Thinking* - (Ti)
Introverted Thinking often involves finding just the right word to clearly express an idea concisely, crisply, and to the point. _Using introverted Thinking is like having an internal sense of the essential qualities of something, noticing the fine distinctions that make it what it is and then naming it. It also involves an internal reasoning process of deriving subcategories of classes and sub-principles of general principles. These can then be used in problem solving, analysis, and refining of a product or an idea. This process is evidenced in behaviors like taking things or ideas apart to figure out how they work. The analysis involves looking at different sides of an issue and seeing where there is inconsistency. _ In so doing, we search for a "leverage point" that will fix problems with the least amount of effort or damage to the system. We engage in this process when we notice logical inconsistencies between statements and frameworks, using a model to evaluate the likely accuracy of what's observed.

Extraverted Thinking* - (Te)
_Contingency planning_, *scheduling*, and quantifying utilize the process of extraverted Thinking. *Extraverted Thinking helps us organize our environment and ideas through charts, tables, graphs, flow charts, outlines, and so on.* At its most sophisticated, this process is about organizing and monitoring people and things to work efficiently and productively. Empirical thinking is at the core of extraverted Thinking _ when we challenge someone's ideas based on the logic of the facts in front of us or lay out reasonable explanations for decisions or conclusions made, often trying to establish order in someone else's thought process. In written or verbal communication, extraverted Thinking helps us easily follow someone else's logic, sequence, or organization._ *It also helps us notice when something is missing, like when someone says he or she is going to talk about four topics and talks about only three.* _In general, it allows us to compartmentalize many aspects of our lives so we can do what is necessary to accomplish our objectives._


So, as you can see, I do use Te. And I'm not sure I understand Ti. Even though I think that I overanalyze everything in times of stress, I am actually doing this over analysis on paper through charts, outlines, diagrams. For example, I have notebooks full of my MBTI charts and tables and try to lay out reasonable explanations for my decisions I arrive at. Part of the reason I think I could have inferior or tertiary Te is that I use this crazy organization over silly things - like determining my type, again.... or where we should live based on climate, population, recreation, etc. Again, every decision I make takes a lot of charting for me. Organization, in general is kind if a silly pleasure for me, but again, on a very elementary school level, haha.... like writing out little schedules for things like my kids' bday parties. I often send friends home with calendars where I've written down the roadtrips/hikes/festivals that we are going to, so that they don't forget. I know silly organization like this comes easy to me, so people often lean on me for party planning, planning a girl's night out, planning the menu, roadtrip mapping, etc. Also, if ever anyone has lost a phone number or address, they know to come to me and I will either have it or find it and give it to them in an organized chart. And sometimes I find joy in organizing my shirts or my kids' markers into a rainbow order. I know, I'm weird... and this totally conflicts with my 98% spontaneous unstructured attitude... but it's like a silly fun thing I do when I'm totally bored (because, ya know, I can't sit still ever...)
Anyways, I'm rambling. But doesn't this organization kind of sound like Te usage? In a very small-scale, pathetic, ineffective way...


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## daffodil (Apr 21, 2016)

I should add that almost all of my organization is done in a very upbeat way. Like, I would never force a schedule or structure, and am happy to rip up a schedule and toss it away if a better option comes up, or if others aren't onboard. I like to think of my schedules as lists of fun options that may be achievable within the time we hang out.... so that the lulls ("what do you wanna do?") can be answered with "Let's do this!?!" instead of "I dunno, what do YOU wanna do?"). I'm very laid back and carefree, I just know that people enjoy that I think ahead and have options laid out to avoid boredom.


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## daffodil (Apr 21, 2016)

Jack of all functions, master of none :-/

No matter how many quizzes I take and how much research & pondering I do on my own, I ALWAYS come out with both feeling functions on top (Fi>Fe or Fe>Fi, it varies), a significant gap, then _usually_ Ne>Se or Se>Ne, followed by a significant gap, then Ni>Si>Te>Ti, with some variations in order.

If I could be F-Se-Ne-T, that's me. But alas, I cannot.


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## IceCreamSundae (Mar 6, 2016)

daffodil said:


> Jack of all functions, master of none :-/


I'm the same way, seemingly so undifferentiated that I might as well be an amoeba or jellyfish, yet I function as well in life as people with a clear type. If we are good at many functions, to the point where we identify with many, I've read, somewhere, that it doesn't mean anything beyond being a generalist, an equal state to a specialist. But I still hold out hope I'll have an insight into my type.


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## DOGSOUP (Jan 29, 2016)

@daffodil, @GreenSea

I see two options for you right now.

1) continue studying the functions to better graps the differences between them, and communicate with people on this forum to learn more about yourselves, others and typing. Not necessarily jump into typing yourselves first, but learn more about it in general.

2) take a moment, forget about the confusing factors and choose the type that feels right and makes sense. Most of this can be pretty instinctual. No type will describe you 100% right, but it should add up with the way you process information. For instance, I cannot always sign up for everything that is written about ENFJ, but it is the one type that best explains my cognition, how I gather data and evaluate information.


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## IceCreamSundae (Mar 6, 2016)

@DOGSOUP, thank you! Right now, every type seems somewhat alien, to the point where I can't pick one and say, "That's closest." One problem I'm having with ENFP is that I'm not sure my possibility, pattern and meaning types of thoughts are enough to qualify me, especially not really knowing how ENFPs do think and how close it is to my thought process.

As an example of a confusion, I seem to make important decisions based on T, and standing back and being logically objective doesn't seem to be a problem, but I identify fairly strongly with the following: fun loving, romantic, sensitive, non-confrontational and will usually back off easily, highly value communication to work out problems and address emotional issues, and am thoughtful of people and always have been. So F seems a greater possibility since I've never seen those qualities together connected to any T type. Yet females in real life typically think I'm T, since I tend to not make important decisions the way they do, which is often (to me) based on some unknown values that I can't connect with, rather than logic. So it's somewhat of a muddle right now.

It seems the best direction would be to study functions, though I've rarely seen two different authors agree with each other on type descriptions, and maybe try on a type and see how I feel about it.


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## MuChApArAdOx (Jan 24, 2011)

neither, people who are happy and content with their lives think this way. for example i currently have a big turkey in the oven on slow cook, i'm so happy and filled with joy that i get to eat what i have created, this makes me love life every single day. why do ppl have to recite lines that could be said by any type and think it is attached to a specific type is so silly doncha think ? happiness = loving to be alive. the formula is really simple. humans make it difficult .


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## IceCreamSundae (Mar 6, 2016)

MuChApArAdOx said:


> neither, people who are happy and content with their lives think this way. for example i currently have a big turkey in the oven on slow cook, i'm so happy and filled with joy that i get to eat what i have created, this makes me love life every single day. why do ppl have to recite lines that could be said by any type and think it is attached to a specific type is so silly doncha think ? happiness = loving to be alive. the formula is really simple. humans make it difficult .


Since we aren't all enlightened, we do make it difficult, but it's not simple or we'd all be happy most of the time. Some types specialize in trying to find happiness no matter what their life circumstances and do seem to have a lightheartness about them, which I think the OP and I were trying to get at, while others are more serious no matter how fulfilled and happy they are. But yeah, anyone can love to be alive, and it's too bad everyone can't make it to that point.


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## MuChApArAdOx (Jan 24, 2011)

GreenSea said:


> Since we aren't all enlightened, we do make it difficult, but it's not simple or we'd all be happy most of the time. Some types specialize in trying to find happiness no matter what their life circumstance and do seem to have a lightheartness about them, others in being more serious no matter how fulfilled and happy they are, and it's valid to post a title attempting to get at the heart of who we are.


I tend to believe that FP's in general are happy people who make the best of any give situation. We solve our problems, not announce them, we don't feel pity for ourselves because we don't thrive on pitying others. Unless you are starving and naked without a single person in the world to speak too, there is absolutely no reason for unhappiness. So if I was to take a real guess, both would feel this way but ENFP might be the one to announce it aloud.


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## IceCreamSundae (Mar 6, 2016)

MuChApArAdOx said:


> I tend to believe that FP's in general are happy people who make the best of any give situation. We solve our problems, not announce them, we don't feel pity for ourselves because we don't thrive on pitying others. Unless you are starving and naked without a single person in the world to speak too, there is absolutely no reason for unhappiness. So if I was to take a real guess, both would feel this way but ENFP might be the one to announce it aloud.


I read your post in a hurry and responded to it quickly, then went back and re-read and changed my post, since I do tend to agree with what you said. I feel there are some situations that make for less happiness, for example I know someone who has chronic fatigue and is married to an emotionally abusive husband, and I think it takes a lot of looking at the positive side in order to handle those types of life situations and to still love life. As you said, it's possible some types, maybe FPs, would have an easier time getting to that state of mind.


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## daffodil (Apr 21, 2016)

Are we talking about the title of my post? If so, I'd just like to quickly confess that I added that to my title simply because I thought "ISFP or ENFP?" was too boring. So I threw a happy statement into the title. It didn't really have much to do with my question and reason for posting. Although I do think the statement sums me up pretty well 

Now that you bring it up - I can see why one might thing that I'm asking which of the 2 types would agree more with the statement "I just love being alive!". My bad


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## IceCreamSundae (Mar 6, 2016)

Maybe "I kind of like being alive!" might have worked better? 

Though I agree with @MuChApArAdOx. Spiritual masters, "master" in theory meaning having mastered living here, could keep their equanimity and happiness through most anything. It's our not wanting to work in that direction, or not being ready to be there because we're not done with our games (myself included), that keeps us from happiness.


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