# 4w3 vs 8w9



## Thrifty Walrus (Jul 8, 2010)

Could someone please help me compare/contrast these two? I think I'm one of them but I'm not too knowledgeable on the enneagram... Well, I obviously see both in myself but are there certain "dealbreakers" on being either? The enneagram confuses me :S


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## Sign of the Times (Mar 4, 2011)

Yes, there are definite “dealbreakers” between the two. The emotional tone of the inner worlds of 4s and 8s are very different. 


8s tend to see the world as divided into two categories. The “strong” and the “weak”, the “worthy” and the “unworthy”, etc. Deep down they feel a violation to their persons that they conclude must have occurred because they were “weak” and if they hadn't been “weak” it wouldn't have happened. Or their “weak” side was not fully acknowledged and allowed in their early environment, so when unhealthy and undeveloped, they do not allow themselves to be weak, e.g. forcing their will onto others and environment, not expressing soft, tender feelings, etc. 


4s respond more to a feeling of being deprived and misunderstood, which they typically react turbulently to, often feeling envy of others that they perceive to have something “better” than them, and often swinging between feeling superior to others and feeling worthless. They often romanticise their lives and selves in their mind as a coping mechanism to deal with pain.


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## unico (Feb 3, 2011)

I really like what Sign of the Times said. It makes a lot of sense to me. I'm actually a 4w3 and have trouble relating to the 8 of the enneagram most of all the types. I would think 4's would focus a lot more on sensitivities and feelings and feeling different from other people on a deep level. 8's seem more outwardly focused to me, though I'm definitely not an expert on them.


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## Lav (Feb 3, 2011)

Thing is that you could have both fixes like I believe it's my case (although at the moment I'm considering I could be a 1w2) and in that case you could easily relate to both. I'll give what I think is an example of the contradiction of having those two similar (some enneagram literature says that 4's are like 8's "inside out"), but at the same time very different personality styles in the same person; when writing something in a forum such as this one; I'm always torn between expressing my feelings about something, and not wanting to give out my weaknesses to others (an 8 thing) so that someone malicious cannot exploit them. I want to express myself and connect with others but at the same time I hold myself back strategically. Although maybe it's an sx/sp thing...


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## silverlined (Jul 8, 2009)

4w3s tend to have a more vulnerable, dramatic and self relieving quality to them, where as 8w9s usually want to appear strong and unaffected. Maybe ask friends or others you know which side they see more of in you.

3s like people to see them as someone who polished and accomplished and also as someone who has it together. They too do not want to appear vulnerable and if you have a strong 3 wing, this can look a lot like 8. With my 3 wing, I often feel torn in expressing feelings but I'm not afraid of being weak, I'm more afraid of not appearing to have it together. Have a look at your motivations. If you can figure out why part of you hesitates to express feelings, you'll be on your way to finding your type.


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## Lav (Feb 3, 2011)

Also don't forget that you could be neither too


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## Thrifty Walrus (Jul 8, 2010)

Lav said:


> Also don't forget that you could be neither too


Yeah I think I may actually be a 3w4, the enneagram is really confusing :S


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## Lav (Feb 3, 2011)

This might help The Enneagram


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## Ezra (Mar 19, 2011)

Massive difference! Have you read the misidentications that someone posted up here? If not, here you go, from EI:
*Misidentifying Fours and Eights*

At first, it would seem extremely unlikely that Fours and Eights would be mistyped for one another, but it does occasionally occur. More often, Eights mistake themselves for Fours because they see themselves as passionate and intense feelings, and this is usually true. Similarly Eights may well recall childhood hurts and identify with the Fours' sense of alienation or loneliness. But Eights cope with these feelings in radically different ways than Fours do. Eights learn to toughen themselves up and to "get over it" so that they can do what they need to do to maintain their independence and personal authority. Fours find it difficult to let go of their childhood wounds and do not want to "get over it." Fours do not necessarily want to be dependent on anyone, but they are willing to rely on others if it gives them the time and resources to work out their feelings or to develop their creativity. 
Eights _do_ feel vulnerable inside, but as much as possible, they steel themselves against any feelings of insecurity and weakness in themselves. Eights tend to see such feelings as self-indulgent luxuries for people who have no serious responsibilities. Fours show their vulnerability, but can be much tougher and controlling than they generally realize. In fact, Fours are quite resilient and can endure emotional difficulties and losses that would cause most other types to collapse. In a strange way, Eights are like Fours turned inside-out. Contrast Fours like Roy Orbison and Johnny Depp with Eights like Frank Sinatra and Sean Penn.


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