# Answers to Spades' Questions



## Elaminopy (Jun 29, 2011)

*0. Is there anything that may affect the way you answer the questions? For example, a stressful time, mental illness, medications, special life circumstances? Other useful information includes sex, age, and current state of mind.*
My 4-year-old is being annoying right now and trying to press keys on the keyboard and keeps asking me questions. I think he's bored since my wife is lying down and his sister is at her dad's for the weekend. Other than that, nothing that should affect my answers. I'm male, almost 30​, and my state of mind is pretty normal I think. My favorite show is coming on in 45 minutes and I really should be cleaning the kitchen before it comes on, but I'll do some of this first.

EDIT: My shows came on and after they were over at 11 I finished this up around 2 am. I was tired and my eyes hurt.

*1. Click on this link:Flickr: Explore! Look at the random photo for about 30 seconds. Copy and paste it here, and write about your impression of it.*
I did this in the thread for it already. I'll paste it here:










Here is, as accurately and honestly as I can, recall the exact thoughts and their order that went through my head when I first saw this picture. It ends when nothing else came to my head.



Outside.
Wilderness.
Field with mountain.
Sunny.
Nice day.
Despite it's length that makes the grass appear abundant, it is pretty thinly-spread about rocks. The grass has an odd color. Too vibrant perhaps? I'm not good with colors as I have diminished red-light cones in my eyes, so I can't tell what's weird about it. Some of it looks dry like it needs water. Is this partly desert area?
Rainbow? No, the clouds just make that shape. Pretty fluffy clouds. I love that color of blue behind them. I also love how it goes from lighter to darker as you move up the sky.
Oddly-colored group of trees. Is it Autumn? The ones on the left are normal color. Oh, they are evergreens, so their leaves don't change color and fall off. They don't even have leaves. So the ones in the group toward the center aren't evergreens? They look evergreen in shape. Maybe they aren't. Hmm. Odd. Photoshopped or edited in some way?
That mountain looks sort of hidden by the clouds at the top, kind of like a wizard's mountain.
Hills on the side.
That field would be hard to run in. You'd probably be running and lose your footing often as the grass conceals rocks, holes, and dips. It reminds me of the scene in the original "The Karate Kid" where Daniel is running from the karate students dressed as skeletons after he pours water on Johnny. That field had dark shadow areas that looked like dips and I always expected him to stumble and fall when he ran through it, but was relieved when he didn't because I didn't want him to be caught. I used to watch that movie all the time as a kid. I just watched it recently with my 4-year-old son.
Heh, this reminds me of The Lonely Mountain where Smaug lived. Good book, "The Hobbit". The movie's almost out. I can't wait. I wonder if my wife has read any more of it. I hope she finishes it before the movie comes out.


*2. You are with a group of people in a car, heading to a different town to see your favorite band/artist/musician. Suddenly, the car breaks down for an unknown reason in the middle of nowhere. What are your initial thoughts? What are your outward reactions?*
Initial thoughts: (assuming I'm a passenger, as I would think the question would mention that I was driving if I was. for some reason i naturally imagined myself sitting behind the driver's seat. i don't know why that is) What's happening? Why are we slowing down? Is there something going on up ahead? No. Are we going to turn somewhere? What's the driver doing? Judging by the reactions of the people in or near the driver's seat, there is something wrong with the car. Did we run out of gas? After it became apparent what was wrong, there would most likely be at least one person, probably more, having strong emotional reactions, complaining, cussing, blaming, what have you. As long as there was nothing I could do about the situation, like the owner of the car was taking care of it or someone more knowledgeable was, or there was nothing anyone could do for the moment, I would be entertained by everyone's reactions. It would also be enjoyable being stranded on the side of the road, not knowing what we are going to do. It would be like an adventure. I'd probably be somewhat sad that we were going to miss the concert, but for the moment, the situation would suffice.

My initial outward reactions: I'd look around curiously as we slowed down, try to find causes. Someone else would most likely have already asked what was going on, so I'd listen for the answer. My expression probably wouldn't change as I watched and listened.


*3. You somehow make it to the concert. The driver wants to go to the afterparty that was announced (and assure you they won't drink so they can drive back later). How do you feel about this party? What do you do?*
Afterparty? For a concert? They have those? Ugh, they have parties for everything. I'd imagine the party with a bunch of people drinking and getting drunk. Would the band be there? That would be cool. I don't drink and hate being around drunk people, but there might be some good food there. Party food is like snack food and I like that a lot. I'm not much for parties, but it probably won't be that bad. I'm out with my friends and I don't do this very often, so why not. It would of course depend on when my wife was expecting me to be back. I'd have to call her and let her know. She probably wouldn't be happy, but depending on her mood, would either happily or unhappily tell me to have fun and come back whenever. It wouldn't be ideal to be at the whim of the driver and when he (yes, also assumed the driver was a male) wanted to leave, but I'm patient and usually assume things will work out.


*4. On the drive back, your friends are talking. A friend makes a claim that clashes with your current beliefs. What is your inward reaction? What do you outwardly say?*
My first inward reaction would be that they are wrong. Flat out. Period. But then I would consider it, try to see why they believe that way. I'd still think they are wrong, because I don't make a habit of believing anything without thinking it through and having good reasons. It wouldn't affect what I think of them, but I would probably feel negatively about them at the moment.

I would probably wait for a break in the conversation to say anything. The conversation would be caused by someone else boldly and loudly saying they are wrong or agreeing with them. When I would speak, I would probably ask them why they think that, in as non-accusing way as possible so they don't get defensive. Instead of saying I disagreed, I'd point out reasons that I believe differently to see what they think about it. This usually results in 1 of 2 ways. The first is they get upset and want to stop talking about it, saying to agree to disagree. The other is they get passionate about it and start making bolder and louder statements at which point I get defensive and start saying more absolutes with a more halting tone like my word is final. Witnesses usually end those ones. Very rarely does someone actually convince me of their side during an argument, but I appreciate it when they do.


*5. What would you do if you actually saw/experienced something that clashes with your previous beliefs, experiences, and habits?*
I would be very interested and want to learn more. It would probably become my new current interest that I'd obsess over for a week or two. I'd want to find out what was real.


*6. What are some of your most important values? How did you come about determining them? How can they change?*
I haven't really thought about my values much, but I'd say I value the following qualities, unique, kind, sense of humor, confident, cunning, honest intelligent, agile, observant, eloquent, creative/imaginative, resourceful, open-minded and emotional control. I'm sure this list is far from complete. These are just the ones I could think of right now. I'm not sure how I determined them. They are just qualities that I admire in others and either have or strive for myself. I suppose the only way my opinion of them could change would be if I witnessed someone having something not on my list but impacted me in a way that caused me to add it to the list, perhaps higher than some of the others. I imagine the only way some of these could be removed would be if I undeniably saw significantly negative results happen as a direct result of it.


*7. a) What about your personality most distinguishes you from everyone else? b) If you could change one thing about you personality, what would it be? Why?*
There are so many different types of people and I'm sure there are plenty very much like me. However, going by just the people I've been exposed to, I'd say my openness to expressing my thoughts and feelings. I'm very open and use lots of words. If given the audience and attention and without negative feedback about the type and amount of details I'm divulging, I can talk about myself and my experiences in detail for a long time. I'm sure this has become apparent in several of my threads.

If I could change one thing, I'd change my laziness. I'm always late to work. I procrastinate all the time. I try to do as many things as I can before a scheduled event. It causes problems for those who rely on me and it wastes their time. It also causes me to miss out on some things, like if I miss the last showing of a movie because of it, for example. I hate that and it's so infuriating when it happens because I know it could have easily been avoided.


*8. How do you treat hunches or gut feelings? In what situations are they most often triggered?*
I usually ignore them. They've led me to incorrect assumptions so much in my life that I decided to only go on what is apparent. That hasn't worked any better for me, but I keep doing it sort of to spite the hunches. It's like I have a grudge against them and stubbornly refuse to acknowledge them. Like I'll get the feeling that someone is upset with me but not know why. Like maybe I said something they didn't like or in a way they didn't like, or something I did, but I don't know. But because they didn't demonstrate it to me, I'll pretend like I'm ignorant of it and treat them as I would if it wasn't the case, even if I know that it will cause trouble since it _is_ the case. And I'll justify it to myself and feel justified to them by telling myself that there was no way I could have known it because they didn't tell me. Even when it causes problems and they become more upset, I'll ask them what is wrong and be 100% accurate to how I would be if I honestly had no clue. I make them spell it out to me before permitting myself to "get it" because I shouldn't be expected to read minds. And I never admit to already having a hunch on it, because that would just undermine everything else. I'm very committed to it, but it has recently become more conscious to me and I'm trying to stop doing that because I realize that it has caused problems in my marriage and I don't want that.


*9. a) What activities energize you most? b) What activities drain you most? Why?*
*Energize:* Figuring something out. A problem that needs solving, especially one where other people have tried and given up. Like if I go to someone's house and notice several devices connected to the TV. If the owner shows any signs of difficulty with operating the setup or there are inconveniences, I am immediately drawn to see how it is hooked up to see if I can make it easier to use and more efficient. I like improving things. My skills are mainly in the area of computers, but some audio and video. Hardly any automotive at all. Then there are ideas. If I come up with an idea, like when I used to write stories often, or more recently working out the details of my card game I'm almost done designing, I can pace around the house for hours hashing and rehashing everything, even coming up with new ideas that render half of the current version useless and making a new version off of that new idea, only to scrap that one once I test it against all perceived scenarios and one of them reveals that it wouldn't work. Then I call up my brother and explain my idea so far and he adds his thoughts that always over-complicate it. Like in my card game, he wanted to add an element to have one function, then another to have another function, and so on. I try to modify the functions so I can make one element that includes all of them. I want every part of the game to follow the same rules or at least follow rules in a way that are of the same format as the other ones so that if you understand one, you intuitively understand any of them. It greatly decreases the number of rules you need to remember.

*Drain:* I was going to say being around lots of people, but it doesn't always drain me. Then I was going to say people expressing strong emotions to me and wanting me to respond. But it doesn't really drain me. It puts me at a loss and I want them to stop, and it can irritate me and make me want to leave, but I wouldn't say my energy level is lower. I think the only thing that actually seems to drain my energy, besides lack of sleep and physical exertion, of course, is doing things I'm not interested in. Doing something I don't want to do. Work or anything that requires effort that isn't in the "energize" category drains me. If I can think of other things while I do it, like repetitive tasks like raking leaves or mowing the lawn, then it's not so bad. But it's things I need to focus on that I'm not interested in that drain me, like homework when I was in school. Having to listen to and respond to someone talking about clothes or deciding what to make for dinner or reading lots of sentimental cards. Often times things like eating or using the bathroom or brushing my teeth or doing my hair fall in this category, though besides eating, they don't take much time. Eating, on the other hand, especially if I'm by myself, is super boring. I hate sitting at the table. I need to be doing something else while eating like watching something or being on the computer or reading a book or even talking. I often bring a book with me to the bathroom even if I'm only going pee. I sit down so I can read and often I only read half a page at most. Showering would be in this category, except it feels good and gives me time alone to think and let my mind wander.


*10. What do you repress about your outward behavior or internal thought process when around others? Why?*
Besides the hunches? Well, I think it depends on who I'm with. I answered a question on another survey and the answer included information regarding this, so I'll just post the whole thing here:

*Describe your outward behavior and internal mindset when around people in different situations (such as with friends, family, in public, workspace, etc.).*

*Friends:* When I'm around my friends, um... my friends? Let's see. There are my friends from when I was in school, but I hardly ever see any of them at all. I wouldn't call anyone at work my friend. My brothers are my friends. Ah, there we go. _Those_ friends. My brothers see them much more often than I do. When I'm around my friends, I am outwardly... well it depends on my mood. Sometimes I am very calm. Sometimes when I'm very calm I make odd comments and observations, usually with the hope that they will think I'm weird but witty. Sometimes I'm very chatty about things and giving my opinion on everything. At any rate, I love the attention to be on me, but half the time like to play it off like I'm no big deal. Internally I'm continually rating my intelligence, wit, competency, coolness, and attitude against the ones seeming to have competing attributes to those and hoping that I'm viewed as being the most in those areas. That is, unless I'm just calm. In those times I really couldn't care. I'm just in observation mode and will just go with the flow.

*Family:* When I'm with family, well, I have 2 families. One is comprised of my wife and our 2 beautiful children. I had to say beautiful. I had to. Everyone always says that. I had to say it just once to see what it felt like. It honestly made me cringe. Not just the "beautiful" part, but also the "children" part. Not that I don't completely love my kids. The other family is my parents and 5 younger siblings. I'm different around my wife, my kids, my parents, and my siblings.

*Wife:* She's so serious. Usually I'm toning down my joking manner (although I have to be myself) and trying to make her happy. I try to listen to her. I have to emphasize "try" because I often trail off and don't hear all she says because it's usually something like "so we need to set $50 aside for the kids' clothes because they are growing out of them so fast right now. Oh, you should see the outfit I just got for our son! And I had to spend $20 extra on groceries this time because I've been getting more fresh fruits and vegetables lately..." We get in arguments easily because she thinks I attack her or she misunderstands me a lot and thinks I'm implying something negative when I wasn't. I try to be careful how am so I don't make her think I meant something I didn't. I am usually flirtatious, though, and often giving her compliments.

*Kids:* 40% jokester (or tricker-man as we say) and playing with them, 30% avoidant of them, 20% sappy cuddly loving father, and 10% serious and stern. They are almost 8 and 4 years old and most of the time I'm either doing something to make them laugh or doing something to mess with them, either to make them laugh or make my son whine. "No Dad! Don't put that in the trash! No!" Wife: "Why do you always torment him?" Me: "He's practically _begging_ me to! You don't understand! How can you say no to that face?" But he's getting pretty good and knowing I'm kidding now. He even starts messing with me now. Our daughter is way more timid and would rather ask me many questions about everything. She's also much more cuddly. I don't have the heart to tease her much. She's also my step-daughter.

*Parents:* I'm usually having a conversation with them. About my work or theirs or about the family or politics or their church. We're not really silly or imaginative together. We tell stories a lot. My dad and I sometimes get to be trying to tell our own story while the other tries to tell theirs and we keep relating to what the other said by telling something similar that happened to us, but it sometimes seems like a struggle. I think we're so used to the other person yielding to us when we want to say something. My dad often comes alive at any large gathering of friends and/or family and becomes the center stage, making jokes about everything, lots of puns, usually cheesy, and lots of stories. Sometimes I'm in the mood to do so as well and the spotlight kind of gets pulled back and forth, but usually I sit and enjoy the experience of everyone loving my dad, silently rooting for him, as if I'm showing him off.

*Siblings:* I'm the oldest. When I get together with any of my siblings I turn into "show and tell" mode. I have to show them the latest thing I'm into, any video games I played since our last encounter, any and all funny pictures I stumbled upon, any and all funny websites or articles or videos I happened across, how awesome I am at whatever I'm currently awesome at, the latest thing I made or drew or card game I designed. With the youngest (10 years younger than I am), he and I have the unique situation my dad and I do, only instead of trying to tell stories over each other, we try to show each other our cache of the above things to show off. I usually don't care what he wants to show me unless and until it ends up being something really cool, but I try to act interested until I can show my next thing, and I'm not sure if he feels the same way about me or not. But we can go for hours.

*Public:* In public I usually ignore everyone and assume they ignore me. If I have a destination, such as the aisle in the grocery store that the item I'm wanting is located, I walk quickly with large strides (but without actually _trying_ to walk fast) directly to the destination and continue to the next destination. People become diminished to mere obstacles and I become impatient easily with them, yet am always polite despite it. That is, unless I'm wearing one of my "out in public" shirts that I wear when I want people to notice and comment on. These shirts are often ones featuring really cool bands that most people don't know about but immediately become really cool if they do, and other references to nerdy things like my "Heartless" shirt that features the Heartless symbol on it from the game Kingdom Hearts. When I am wearing these shirts, my attention is very much on every person I walk by whose face is in a position to see my shirt. My outside behavior is unchanged and I utilize my eyes' mobility and peripheral vision heavily while keeping my head in the direction I'm going so I don't give away that I'm not just oblivious to them, but internally I'm watching everyone with the sole objective of seeing if they see my shirt and how they react. I try to determine, based on their appearance and what they are wearing, the likelihood of them recognizing what I'm displaying and what the probability they will also like it is. Disappointingly, I get very, very few looks of recognition and almost no comments. It's not fair. I always comment on a shirt someone is wearing that I like, especially if it is something that most people probably wouldn't recognize.

*Workplace:* I'm very much the same at work as I am in public besides the shirt thing because I'm not supposed to wear t-shirts. The main difference is that I try to avoid people more since I work in IT and if I'm away from my desk it means there's something really important I need to attend to and I don't want to be stopped by a bunch of people asking my help on their issues they've had for a week but didn't bother calling about. I also don't like brushing people off even for important things and I always feel bad doing it. I don't like appearing selfish or uncaring. On the phone I'm much more willing to feign ignorance to what someone is talking about if they aren't explaining it right. If I tell them to click on something and tell me what appears on the right side of the screen when they do and they describe something that is completely different from what they should have, meaning they did something other than what I said to do, I'll act confused even though I know they did something other than what I said. I understand that they don't know computers like I do, but that doesn't mean anything about their ability to follow directions. So I'll act as if I don't know what happened and start asking questions to "try to figure out what happened" until they realize for themselves that they didn't follow my instructions and feel all stupid, at which point I reassure them that they aren't, even though I did that to make them feel that way. If someone's inability to do what I said to do causes me to have to do more work, they won't be spared the extra work, either. If I can get away with it, even my boss and the owners of the company get treated to the same thing. If anything, it raises their opinion of me and my computer skills because they subconsciously associate feeling dumb with memories of being around me, which probably translates into me being really smart, as evidenced by the things they say to me and about me. Wow, I just realized I do that. Heh.


----------



## Elaminopy (Jun 29, 2011)

Another picture one, just because.










Thoughts that went through my head, translated into words that make sense to readers:



Whoa.
Wide open space.
Water, rocks, sky.
That's some smooth water. Is it one of those slow exposure shots where the water looks really smooth?
Nice sunset.
Cool cloud formations.
Cool little rocky part jutting out on the right.
Oh, there are rocks under the water.
Kinda ghostly where the water touches the rock in the middle to the lower right. Photoshop effect? I mean, it looks unreal. Almost like the water is clouds. I mean, look at the slight ripples where the water goes from light to dark in the foreground. It could be a blanket of cloud and the rock is rising out of it. What is going on there? It looks so weird. No reflection at all, like it was cut from another picture and pasted right here. Maybe that ghostly effect is its reflection. It doesn't look like enough to be the reflection of that rock, with how much it looks like it is rising out of the water. But maybe at this angle it is how it would look.
Those super bright clouds look like they are on fire! Crazy.
Such a contast from the smooth, calm blue and the brilliant fiery orange sky.
Look how far the yellow/orange extends to the right, then just starts curving down for no reason. It looks weird. I guess I don't see very many sunsets over the water with nothing to block the horizon.
It looks cold there. That water looks cold especially.
I wonder how deep it is right in this little sectioned-off area. Are there fish in it? I don't see any. Man, that must suck being a fish. Always cold. I hate being cold. Every time there is water, it is always cold. Why is water cold by default!? And fish must live in it their whole lives! All the time! 24/7! No breaks! No warmth, ever. No relief from the coldness. Totally open and exposed to the cold water. No shelter or cave can protect them from it. There is no where they can go to be warm. Never warm. Gah! Well, until they are cooked.


----------



## Ellis Bell (Mar 16, 2012)

I know this isn't in depth, but my guess is ISTP? I sense Ti and inferior Fe from your post. @arkigos is better at typing than I am, so maybe he can give you a more in-depth analysis.


----------



## Psychopomp (Oct 3, 2012)

I had a theory, then scrapped it... then another and scrapped that too. The only thing I know is that you have a strong T function.

What do you test as? What do you think you are and why? Have you looked at the effects of inferior functions? Which applies most to you?


----------



## Elaminopy (Jun 29, 2011)

arkigos said:


> I had a theory, then scrapped it... then another and scrapped that too. The only thing I know is that you have a strong T function.
> 
> What do you test as? What do you think you are and why? Have you looked at the effects of inferior functions? Which applies most to you?


Well, I was hoping not to influence the typing process with this, but since you asked. I first tested at Personality test based on Jung and Briggs Myers typology as INTJ. Most other tests have been INTP or ISTP. I just took that test again since I haven't taken it in a while and I got ISTP, but the S was only 1% over N.

If I have to pick one, I think I'm ISTP, but I'm not very confident about it at all. I mainly think so because Ti seems pretty certain and I can pick out a lot of details if I try. I also never run into things and never fall and like doing active things even if I don't do them very often. And I like improving things and figuring out how something works. INTP or ENTP seem the most appealing and I would like to find that I am one of those.

Where would I find a good resource on the effects of inferior functions? I'm more certain about being Dom Ti and Inf Fe than anything else.

I'm not sure which applies to me most. I read about INTP and ISTP and they seem to apply to different parts of me, but equally. And then there's some part of me that neither explains but is securely in the description of ENTP.


----------



## Elaminopy (Jun 29, 2011)

*lassos thread with rope and heaves it out of the quicksand*


----------



## Elaminopy (Jun 29, 2011)

Still nothing and back to the second page. So I'm a lost cause.


----------



## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

ISTP (the emotions of others bothering you part is probably inferior Fe). You have some pretty raging inferior Fe going on, and obvious Ti as well:



> I'd still think they are wrong, because I don't make a habit of believing anything without thinking it through and having good reasons. It wouldn't affect what I think of them, but I would probably feel negatively about them at the moment.


Your emphasis on cause-and-effect reasoning as a first priority to accepting/doing anything sounds like dominant thinking, let alone, Ti (you don't sound like adapting your thinking to external conditions that fly your way comes easily to you). The whole feeling negatively about them sounds like Fe issues backing Ti, almost like you feel like they're embarrassing themselves because you would never want to see that in yourself.

I would say I'm seeing signs of Se, but not Ne.


----------



## Elaminopy (Jun 29, 2011)

JungyesMBTIno said:


> You have some pretty raging inferior Fe going on, and obvious Ti as well:


Raging inferior Fe. Raging meaning strong and influencing, or raging meaning neglected and thus furious and bitter? What examples most point to this raging Fe?



> Your emphasis on cause-and-effect reasoning as a first priority to accepting/doing anything sounds like dominant thinking, let alone, Ti (you don't sound like adapting your thinking to external conditions that fly your way comes easily to you). The whole feeling negatively about them sounds like Fe issues backing Ti, almost like you feel like they're embarrassing themselves because you would never want to see that in yourself.


Thanks. Dominant Ti is what I thought as well.



> I would say I'm seeing signs of Se, but not Ne.


This is the main point of contention for me. ISTP or INTP. I was hoping this questionnaire would determine which. I wonder if these questions aren't geared toward distinguishing Ne from Se so much as other functions, or at least my answers aren't. What parts point to Se and what would you expect more from someone with secondary Ne?


----------



## Bast (Mar 23, 2011)

I decided to respond to each of your answers individually. Take it with a grain of salt though, because while I'm fairly decent at typing others, I am BY NO MEANS an expert.

1. When you are describing the picture, it starts out SEEMING like Se, but I think the seemingly "random" associations you make from the image connecting it to things that don't have anything to do with the image directly points to Ne.
2. This just sounds like you are a problem solving type person who realizes when you can do something about a problem and when you can't... I don't know if this associates to any particular function or not. 
3. I'm not sure here either. This sort of points to potential introversion, and also more associations but they are not as "random" this time as to suggest Ne. 
4. Sounds like some Fe here
5. Ti-Ne maybe
6. Not sure here
7. Sounds INTPish
8. Some Fe maybe
9. Energize: Sounds Ti dom; Drain: Not sure
10. Seems like some Fe showing through

In addition, you seem to be somewhat of a "wordy" individual, and that usually strikes me as INTP, but obviously I have no concrete evidence of this, heh

Overall, yes, Ti dom and very obvious inferior Fe.


----------



## Teybo (Sep 25, 2012)

I'm going to pretend that I know what I'm talking about and say that I think you're ISTP. Why? Well, you remind me of my ISTP friend (same sense of humor and love of Kingdom Hearts. You also look alike, strangely enough.).

You seem to have a lot of SeNi sorts of observations, which are about experiencing the physical world and then trying to understand the story behind it. Your description of the photos, for instance, are like a relay race with Se and Ni passing the baton back and forth. 'Here's a detail. Why is that detail that way? Let me look again. Is it really the way it seems? What's the story behind it?' It's only after you've exhausted the SeNi relay that you turn outward and explore NeSi connections.

Your answers also have a certain physicality and storytelling to them. For example, in the questions about driving to the concert and the party and so on, you mention your physical location in the car, the gender of the driver, who you think would be at the party, what they would be doing, what snacks are at the party, and so on.

Pacing while designing a system (card game) also sounds very SeNi to me. And wanting the rules of the system to be elegant, simple, and intuitive is not only good design, it's also Ni design. 

I don't really know what I'm talking about, though, so it's probably best not to take what I say too seriously. I can use my magic PerC powers and summon the user who (finally) correctly typed me: Oh @reckful, hear our plea! Lend us your voice! Hehehe.

What type do you think you are? What type do you hope you are? If those don't match, why?


----------



## Elaminopy (Jun 29, 2011)

Teybo said:


> love of Kingdom Hearts.


Sorry, but you mentioned it, so I have to post it. I mean, I made the video and all. It's meant to be watched.





I've got several other video game videos there and some MBTI ones as well.



> You also look alike, strangely enough.)


Heh, I had some people say I look absolutely ENTPish.



> You seem to have a lot of SeNi sorts of observations, which are about experiencing the physical world and then trying to understand the story behind it. Your description of the photos, for instance, are like a relay race with Se and Ni passing the baton back and forth. 'Here's a detail. Why is that detail that way? Let me look again. Is it really the way it seems? What's the story behind it?' It's only after you've exhausted the SeNi relay that you turn outward and explore NeSi connections.


I love this description and it made me smile. I've now definitely decided that I like you.



> Pacing while designing a system (card game) also sounds very SeNi to me. And wanting the rules of the system to be elegant, simple, and intuitive is not only good design, it's also Ni design.


This seems sort of odd to me, since my youngest brother types himself as INFJ and he also paces along with me. Also, I'm usually trying to simplify his ideas and he's allegedly Ni dominant. I wonder if my Ti is what simplifies them.



> What type do you think you are? What type do you hope you are? If those don't match, why?


I think I'm more likely ISTP than INTP, but one of those types. I hoped I was INTP because I thought I was that and I liked how I was. Then more and more people started saying ISTP and I didn't want that because I equated INTP with me and ISTP seemed like a simpler, less thoughtful me. But finally, now that ISTP is seeming more likely and I seem to have a fair amount of Ni, it is seeming more and more like me and now I'm eyeing INTP with suspicion like, "Are you really what I thought? I'm not so sure now. Maybe I got the wrong impression of you all this time. Are you even something I want to be? Maybe ISTP actually matches what I wanted to be and wished myself to be all this time that I was confused between the two and I just didn't understand it well enough." So really, my criteria for how I hope I am a type is based on how close that type is to how I perceive I am. I've always been my best role model for myself and the standards that I used to judge other people.


----------



## Tru7h (Oct 16, 2012)

Elaminopy said:


> Well, I was hoping not to influence the typing process with this, but since you asked. I first tested at Personality test based on Jung and Briggs Myers typology as INTJ.


Oh heavens. You used that test? No no, and no.



Elaminopy said:


> I'm not sure which applies to me most. I read about INTP and ISTP and they seem to apply to different parts of me, but equally. And then there's some part of me that neither explains but is securely in the description of ENTP.


Now I agree with this part. I picked up right away on INTP or ISTP. Now let's look at their functions and their order:

INTP: Ti - Ne - Si - Fe
ISTP: Ti - Se - Ni - Fe

As you can tell, the only differences are that the S and N functions are swapped in the aux and tertiary functions and in their introverted/extroverted counterparts. However, these differences make a BIG difference in regards to how we approach life. Just watch the following video and you should be able to see which one sounds more like you.


----------



## Elaminopy (Jun 29, 2011)

Tru7h said:


> Oh heavens. You used that test? No no, and no.


Sorry. I didn't know! I did some personality test one day on Myspace and it was "what element are you?" I started thinking, "Hey, these are fun and all, but there's probably a much better, thoroughly-researched personality system out there. I wonder what that would be." So I searched and that test was the first I came across.



> Just watch the following video and you should be able to see which one sounds more like you.


The ISTP sounds more like me in that video. I'm not big and muscular by any means, and I can't do anything cool like build a roller blade suit, though that would probably be hella fun riding it down a street.


----------



## Tru7h (Oct 16, 2012)

Eh, doesn't matter much. I would say whether you feel more attached to reality (ISTP) or living in your own mind (INTP).

And it's ok. I forgive you. :{) <--- Happy Mustache Smiley Face


----------



## Psychopomp (Oct 3, 2012)

Elaminopy said:


> Sorry. I didn't know! I did some personality test one day on Myspace and it was "what element are you?" I started thinking, "Hey, these are fun and all, but there's probably a much better, thoroughly-researched personality system out there. I wonder what that would be." So I searched and that test was the first I came across.
> 
> 
> The ISTP sounds more like me in that video. I'm not big and muscular by any means, and I can't do anything cool like build a roller blade suit, though that would probably be hella fun riding it down a street.


I have two very good ISTP friends and neither are muscular or into sports at all. They are both into thinking mostly. Both really enjoy theories and functional systems... in this way they are much like any INTP. So, what is really the difference? 

The main difference is obviously Se/Ni vs Ne/Si. 

Se is about manipulation and impact on real things... this makes the ISTP more likely to deal with physical things than INTP. They tend to be more into tool use (gadgets) and interested in visceral theories. 

Examples:

1) I have an ISTP friend who is super into Electricity. He knows all about theories on how the universe is fundamentally electrical. He is all into the possibility of things like ball lightning (Ni?) and is often filming, photographing, etc any electrical phenomena he can encounter.... this usually involves him off on some adventure in his jeep. He is really into time-lapse photography and once when I was having him help me build a computer (ISTP is often associated with IT) he did a time-lapse of it. He's got some amazing gadgets. He once built a projector and did it totally Macgyver-style out of backyard scraps and chemicals. It was incredible and he totally understood the science of it. Your avatar reminds me of him and seems like something he'd use as an avatar.

2) I have another ISTP friend who is even less 'physical'. His obsession of choice is the stock market and tax law. He has stripped down both and has an incredibly subversive grasp of both. He uses this crazy international drivers license and this hilarious pre-prepared legal rhetoric to get out of speeding tickets. He laughs that if it the court system really wanted to stick it to him, they could.. but he either confuses them with techno-babble and they back off or he annoys them with loopholes and they give in. He gets an enormous ego pay off for this and I think this is a wonderful example of Ti/Se. He probably knows only those exact parts of the law that are useful for finding a loophole and the only motivation for all this is to be generally subversive and to manipulate a system. 

INTPs don't do this stuff for a lot of reasons.... our Si makes us more procedural and thus probably more perfectionist, our Ne is disconcerned with real-world use or applicability unless it's in some hypothetical future-thinking sort of way.

When it comes to real-world it is usually the INTP who is telling the ISTP to 'ease it back' and in the metaphysical world it is usually the ISTP telling the INTP they have gone too far afield. Both my ISTP friends have told me "that is a great theory... but what's the point?" and I have told them "you sure subverted that system, but what did you hope to accomplish?" This is all a manifestation of Se/Ni vs Ne/Si.


----------



## Elaminopy (Jun 29, 2011)

arkigos said:


> Examples:


Wow, those seem crazy to me. I couldn't build anything out of anything except following the instructions. And the drivers' license thing sounds cool. I usually get out of tickets by not speeding in the first place and when I get pulled over for something else, it's usually something that's not really commonly known and I become all interested in the law they are pulling me over for and ask all kinds of questions to make sure I fully understand it all. This usually makes them want to get back to their car.



> When it comes to real-world it is usually the INTP who is telling the ISTP to 'ease it back' and in the metaphysical world it is usually the ISTP telling the INTP they have gone too far afield. Both my ISTP friends have told me "that is a great theory... but what's the point?" and I have told them "you sure subverted that system, but what did you hope to accomplish?" This is all a manifestation of Se/Ni vs Ne/Si.


Hmm, well I don't have anyone in real life to talk about theory with on a regular basis except my brother and we don't talk that often. But I just called him up today while I was at work and we had 1.5 hour discussion on time travel theories today. He ended it because he had to go.


----------



## Psychopomp (Oct 3, 2012)

Elaminopy said:


> Wow, those seem crazy to me. I couldn't build anything out of anything except following the instructions. And the drivers' license thing sounds cool. I usually get out of tickets by not speeding in the first place and when I get pulled over for something else, it's usually something that's not really commonly known and I become all interested in the law they are pulling me over for and ask all kinds of questions to make sure I fully understand it all. This usually makes them want to get back to their car.
> 
> 
> Hmm, well I don't have anyone in real life to talk about theory with on a regular basis except my brother and we don't talk that often. But I just called him up today while I was at work and we had 1.5 hour discussion on time travel theories today. He ended it because he had to go.


LOL, thinking of either of my ISTP friends... I could easily have an unending discussion about time travel theory with them. It could actually be argued that such a discussion could be better associated with ISTP than INTP. I think I personally would tire of such a conversation before either of them. It's not abstract enough? Serious enough? Procedural enough? I'd say something like "Time travel is, based on our current scientific conception, almost certainly not possible." I'd want to talk about why that is, but I think my ISTP friends would be somewhat less interested in that than I am... or perhaps less prepared?

This sort of thing is one of the reasons I think people misunderstand Ne vs Se. I think Se is more likely to explore random possibilities than Ne. That seems really odd to say and I've always wondered why it seems to be the case. I have an ESFJ (granted, not Se but tertiary Ne.. I have an ESTP friend that is similar in this regard) boss who is always going on an on about really imaginative and random stuff and it bores me for some reason. I guess my Ti/Ne is so strong that I think of S types as 'dabblers' and ... it's almost like the Ne processes they are going through now is what I would have thought of when I was a kid. I would have loved a time travel discussion when I was 12. That sounds patronizing, but it's true. I remember distinctly I had an ISTP friend when I was.. oh, I guess around 12. I remember laying on my trampoline and saying "Let's think of paradoxes. I got about 10 but I want to think of more." I remember he was interested but the ones he thought of were not interesting. He'd probably have some interesting ones now? I don't know.

Yeah, I think that is it. I struggle to explain to people who are so imaginative and 'random' and into theory why that doesn't make them an N type. It's more likely they are developing their lower functions or giving them air time with someone who seems receptive... but somehow it's taxing to me. My Ne wants discussion that pushes my conceptions, not into something that is imaginative, but something that is compellingly True. Something truly advanced. That is why lower order N function types think we are having this incredible theoretical conversation and I am kinda bored. For them it's something they are interested in and discovering and find fascinating. For me, it's my existence. It's a curse. It is simply the way it is. Of course I am ahead of them and egotistical about it! Just having the functions or the interest doesn't make it *you*. 

That is why typing dominant functions are sometimes hard. As we develop our weaker functions they can be the ones that are most visible.

Stupid N elitism. I know it frustrates my ISTP friends and even alienates us a little.... but just a little. Does that make sense?

EDIT: This post is meant to present a very incisive POV to spur introspection... not to silence it. Hopefully, it succeeds as a sounding board for you at least.


----------



## Elaminopy (Jun 29, 2011)

arkigos said:


> it's almost like the Ne processes they are going through now is what I would have thought of when I was a kid. I would have loved a time travel discussion when I was 12. That sounds patronizing, but it's true.


I know what you mean. My ISFJ wife will have some really imaginative moment and start coming up with theories about things, that I came up with long ago and I'll just smile but try to be really supportive and encourage it because it's not every day I can talk about things like that with her. But I also have to be careful in the encouraging that I don't give too much because even then it belittles her ideas. Heh, that reminded me of a Demetri Martin skit. He's great:



> I think about drowning. I think drowning would be a horrible experience, but I bet a little less horrible, if right before that, you were really thirsty. Because then you're like, "Man, I could use a drink. Oh that's good. Whoa, too much!"�


But I wonder what you were thinking about when I talked about the time travel thing. Like, just talking about how cool it would be and all the things you could do, or how it would actually work? My brother's and my conversation was about paradoxes in time travel and how they could be avoided. What are the current theories to avoid them (alternate timelines) and how my theory is different. Lots of analogies. And why going back in time and killing the younger "you" wouldn't make the current you disappear, because time travel is actually different than how most people conceive it.


----------



## Jabberbroccoli (Mar 19, 2011)

At first I thought INTJ, then INTP, then ISTP, then INTJ again, then INTP again, then INTJ again, and I'm now thinking you're an ISTP with a very well developed Ni.

You're so thoughtful about everything, and your original post was ridiculously thorough, just got to give you props for that. I'd say ISTP with a strong Ni is a strong possibility, or INTJ. I thought INTP could also be possible, but I didn't see as much Ne as I would have expected, and Ne is also very not-thorough.

Whatever you are though, there's a lot of Ni in there.


----------



## Psychopomp (Oct 3, 2012)

Jabberbroccoli said:


> At first I thought INTJ, then INTP, then ISTP, then INTJ again, then INTP again, then INTJ again, and I'm now thinking you're an ISTP with a very well developed Ni.
> 
> You're so thoughtful about everything, and your original post was ridiculously thorough, just got to give you props for that. I'd say ISTP with a strong Ni is a strong possibility, or INTJ. INTP could also be possible, but I didn't see as much Ne as I would have expected, and Ne is also very not-thorough.


I agree with this. I don't think that INTJ is as likely as ISTP and I am still not convinced of Ne.


----------



## Elaminopy (Jun 29, 2011)

Jabberbroccoli said:


> I thought INTP could also be possible, but I didn't see as much Ne as I would have expected, and Ne is also very not-thorough.





arkigos said:


> I agree with this. I don't think that INTJ is as likely as ISTP and I am still not convinced of Ne.


I spent some time in the INTJ forum a while back and PMed a couple of them at length. The general consensus from them was that I have way too many details and it makes their head hurt. One mentioned that my "Ti is out of the water, it's crazy. It's so thorough".


----------



## Psychopomp (Oct 3, 2012)

Elaminopy said:


> I spent some time in the INTJ forum a while back and PMed a couple of them at length. The general consensus from them was that I have way too many details and it makes their head hurt. One mentioned that my "Ti is out of the water, it's crazy. It's so thorough".


Your level of details makes my head hurt as well. I remember looking at your original post and thinking, "no way I am getting through that" and I hoped someone else would so I could jump in and get some ideas from the follow-up. 

I think that Manifesto tendency is a xxTP thing... though I think I'd personally argue it's an xSTP thing. That is mainly anecdotal, however... I know two ESTPs who have had me read their Manifestos that made my brain implode after page two million. My ISTP friend has done that once or twice. I don't think it's implausible to think an INTP could do that as well.. but the content would be a lot more abstract.


----------



## reckful (Jun 19, 2012)

Teybo said:


> I can use my magic PerC powers and summon the user who (finally) correctly typed me: Oh @reckful, hear our plea! Lend us your voice! Hehehe.


 @Elaminopy —

I'm really a dichotomies guy, rather than a "functions" guy, which may mean you're not that interested in my input but my take, just based on your posts in this thread, is that you're a P and that you may be in or pretty close to the middle on two, if not all three, of the other dimensions — which can make settling on a type difficult, needless to say, and might also mean it would really be more accurate to think of yourself as being, say, in between two of the 16 types than being one type in particular. I'd say I lean a little I and a little T but, although I'd be surprised if you were an E_FP, neither E_TP nor I_FP would really surprise me. And I guess I'm leaning a little S also, but SPs are my biggest blind spot in terms of not having had that much experience with them in real life (or online, for that matter).

I'd be curious to see your results — _including the percentage scores_ — from the two dichotomy-based tests (ignore the Nardi functions test at the top of the post) that I link to in this post.


----------



## Elaminopy (Jun 29, 2011)

reckful said:


> @_Elaminopy_ —
> 
> I'm really a dichotomies guy, rather than a "functions" guy, which may mean you're not that interested in my input but my take, just based on your posts in this thread, is that you're a P and that you may be in or pretty close to the middle on two, if not all three, of the other dimensions — which can make settling on a type difficult, needless to say, and might also mean it would really be more accurate to think of yourself as being, say, in between two of the 16 types than being one type in particular. I'd say I lean a little I and a little T but, although I'd be surprised if you were an E_FP, neither E_TP nor I_FP would really surprise me. And I guess I'm leaning a little S also, but SPs are my biggest blind spot in terms of not having had that much experience with them in real life (or online, for that matter).
> 
> I'd be curious to see your results — _including the percentage scores_ — from the two dichotomy-based tests (ignore the Nardi functions test at the top of the post) that I link to in this post.


While functions are the building blocks of the types and therefore matter a lot, dichotomies offer a different perspective and they are what Myers and Briggs brought to Jung's work. They are both valid, but neither should be used exclusively.

The Human Metrics one was the first one I ever took, but I'll take it again to get the percentages.

Here are the results of the Human Metrics one:

*ISTP*

*I*ntrovert(78%)
*S*ensing(25%)
*T*hinking(88%)
*P*erceiving(33%

And for the Global 5/SLOAN one:

*Big Five Test Results*


Extroversion42%Orderliness34%Emotional Stability82%Accommodation22%Inquisitiveness74%

Global 5: sloan RCUEI; sloan+ r|C|uEI; primary Calm; R(58%)C(82%)U(66%)E(78)I(74%)


----------



## reckful (Jun 19, 2012)

Elaminopy said:


> Here are the results of the Human Metrics one:
> 
> *ISTP*
> 
> ...


As I noted in the linked post, because of the design of the SLOAN test, its percentages are more likely to have something to say about the strength of your preferences. Taking the dichotomies one by one:

You came out I on both tests, although the 42% SLOAN score suggests maybe it's pretty mild. Combined with your previous testing history and your own views of your type in this thread, I'm definitely leaning mild I.

On S/N, you got a split decision, but the SLOAN score is pretty high (74%). I'm leaning N overall, but that's the dimension I have the most doubt about.

You got big fat T scores on both tests and it sounds like you've never had much doubt about that one.

And you got P on both tests and that's the preference I had the strongest lean on before you took the tests. 

So I say: First choice inTP; second choice isTP.

And maybe think about ixTP as a possibility. Jung himself said more people are in the middle on E/I than are significantly extraverted or introverted (and called that in-the-middle person the "normal man") — and, as I understand it, there's both Big Five and MBTI data that suggests that most, if not all, of the MBTI dimensions may exhibit something like a normal distribution (with a large percentage of people not far from the middle)

In that regard, it's maybe worth noting that I've been actively participating in type-me threads for over three years at INTJforum, and it's been my experience that, when someone who's already spent quite a bit of time looking into the MBTI and puzzling over their type starts a type-me thread, it more often than not turns out that they're (at least arguably) close to the middle on at least one dimension. From that standpoint (and at least as I saw things), Teybo was kind of the exception that proves the rule, since I ended up getting a pretty strong INFJ sense from his posts, rather than getting substantial mixed signals on any of the dimensions.

I believe Keirsey's of the view that S/N is the most significant single dichotomy, and I'm inclined to agree — and that might be one more reason to expect someone who's near the S/N borderline to have an especially hard time deciding on their type.

In case you want any further S/N input from me: If you scroll all the way down to the bottom of this long post and open the spoiler, it's an "introduction to N and S" that I put together a while back, and it includes some quotes from Myers, Keirsey and others.

And as a final note, in case you're interested, here are round-ups of some reasonably good INTP and ISTP profiles that are online:

_INTP Profiles_
Official MBTI Manual
Keirsey (Please Understand Me)
Kroeger & Thuesen (Type Talk)
Hirsh & Kummerow (Lifetypes [abridged])
personalitypage: Portrait
personalitypage: Personal Growth
personalitypage: Relationships
personalitypage: Careers

_ISTP Profiles_
Official MBTI Manual
Keirsey (Please Understand Me)
Kroeger & Thuesen (Type Talk)
Hirsh & Kummerow (Lifetypes [abridged])
personalitypage: Portrait
personalitypage: Personal Growth
personalitypage: Relationships
personalitypage: Careers


----------



## Teybo (Sep 25, 2012)

I feel like I summoned my creator, and then my creator showed up. Surreal. 

Also, @reckful, if you don't allow private messages, then I have little choice but to take up space in a public forum to reply to your messages to me. It's kind of awkward.

But, since this seems to be the "forum" you prefer, I just wanted to say that my friendship doesn't come in the form of a digital tag or something of that sort. I just wanted to express to you the warmth and gratitude I felt for you. I hope you can accept that, at least.


----------



## reckful (Jun 19, 2012)

Teybo said:


> I feel like I summoned my creator, and then my creator showed up. Surreal.
> 
> Also, @reckful, if you don't allow private messages, then I have little choice but to take up space in a public forum to reply to your messages to me. It's kind of awkward.
> 
> But, since this seems to be the "forum" you prefer, I just wanted to say that my friendship doesn't come in the form of a digital tag or something of that sort. I just wanted to express to you the warmth and gratitude I felt for you. I hope you can accept that, at least.


Sorry about the awkwardness. My PM policy is explained here. I'm over 20,000 posts at INTJforum at this point (and have the same PM policy there) and, if anything, I should be cutting back on my internet forum time. I'm definitely not looking to expand the scope of my participation.

I appreciated your friend request, as I noted in my reply to it, and I appreciate your warmth and gratitude in my own special INTJ way :tongue:.


----------



## Elaminopy (Jun 29, 2011)

It's okay, @Teybo, you can PM me if you want.


----------



## Elaminopy (Jun 29, 2011)

reckful said:


> So I say: First choice inTP; second choice isTP.


I wonder if the following threads would give any more insight:

http://personalitycafe.com/general-chat/123795-pick-apart-thread.html
http://personalitycafe.com/general-chat/122964-time-travel-paradoxes.html

They are both ones I started.

I'm reading the descriptions you linked to and read the whole "long post", including the spoiler. I've already been all over the personalitypage ones, though.


----------



## reckful (Jun 19, 2012)

Elaminopy said:


> I wonder if the following threads would give any more insight:
> 
> http://personalitycafe.com/general-chat/123795-pick-apart-thread.html
> http://personalitycafe.com/general-chat/122964-time-travel-paradoxes.html


INTP was already my first choice for you, notwithstanding that I definitely felt like I'd gotten mixed signals on S/N, but those two linked threads both lean me more N than before — which would be consistent with that relatively high N-equivalent score you got on the SLOAN test. My understanding is that cognitive functions sources tend to associate the kind of nitpickiness on display in the Pick Apart Thread with Ti (so either ISTP or INTP), but I think it's significantly more an INTP thing than an ISTP thing, and I'd especially expect that to be true where it's nitpickiness relating to language use that's on display.

And I also think the issues you talk about in the Time Travel Paradox thread are stuff that an NT would be quite a bit more likely to be geeking out about than an ST.

STs are the most common-sensical, down-to-earth, practical types. The most likely types to end up as cops or accountants or handymen or businessmen or athletes. And, as with most MBTI combinations, if you flip both preferences, you get the people that tend to be found at the opposite end of the same spectrum. In this case, NFs tend to be the most mystical/spiritual, New Agey, head-in-the-clouds types.

NTs share the abstract/theoretical side of that with the NFs, but NTs tend to be less mystical and more grounded, and an NT's interests are more likely to fall in the impersonal/geeky category, while an NF's will tend to be more people-oriented (including self-improvement and self-expression stuff).


----------



## Elaminopy (Jun 29, 2011)

reckful said:


> INTP was already my first choice for you, notwithstanding that I definitely felt like I'd gotten mixed signals on S/N, but those two linked threads both lean me more N than before — which would be consistent with that relatively high N-equivalent score you got on the SLOAN test. My understanding is that cognitive functions sources tend to associate the kind of nitpickiness on display in the Pick Apart Thread with Ti (so either ISTP or INTP), but I think it's significantly more an INTP thing than an ISTP thing, and I'd especially expect that to be true where it's nitpickiness relating to language use that's on display.
> 
> And I also think the issues you talk about in the Time Travel Paradox thread are stuff that an NT would be quite a bit more likely to be geeking out about than an ST.
> 
> ...


I was hoping you'd say ISTP, so then I could be fairly certain of it since that is the most common one people have typed me as, in this thread, other threads, and other forums. INTP is second and ENTP is third. But you sound pretty knowledgeable and I had already been just about to settle on ISTP and was planning on doing so had you also said ISTP. I've sort of grown a liking to thinking I have Ni over Si, after being told I'm ISTP and seriously comparing it to how I am. I almost think I like ISTP with high Ni better than INTP. Besides, I look at my co-worker who is so reserved and looks so awkward in physical reality. He has a hard time lifting anything, he walks in a weird, uncomfortable way, he seems like he would much rather be in his head than in the physical world. And I've been wondering if this is the "INTx" characteristic I've read about. I've never seen it, but I got to wondering if that was how it looked. I'm much more comfortable in the physical world. I'm aware of obstacles around me, I run up and down stairs 2 at a time, I pride myself in being graceful and smooth in my movements and only applying just enough force to perform some action as is needed. I listen to loud, aggressive music while I walk to and from work and imagine myself visiting movie universes in which there is a lot of action and having physical abilities that surpass and amaze them, even for their universe.

So, INTP sounds good, but ISTP is sounding better and better the more I think about it. Stupid bias.


----------



## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

LSI - WSWiki (Ti Se - though not exactly the same as mbti Ti)

LSI can certainly make use of their Ni, and come off as very intuitive. Actually a lot of those typed as intjs are LSI probably due to that, in part.


----------



## Bast (Mar 23, 2011)

Elaminopy said:


> I wonder if the following threads would give any more insight:
> 
> http://personalitycafe.com/general-chat/123795-pick-apart-thread.html
> http://personalitycafe.com/general-chat/122964-time-travel-paradoxes.html
> ...


Greetings, obvious INTP. Hahaha.

Seriously though, oh my god. I personally can't make it through threads like that without getting bored, distracted, or feeling like my brain is caving in. For reference, I ALWAYS test as INTP on just about everything, but I've never felt like one really. So, all the MBTI tests in the world can't really determine anything for sure. 

I've seen a lot of your posts around the forum, and you've always struck me as some kind of NT type. Obviously I could be wrong since I don't know you, but that is just my impression.


----------



## reckful (Jun 19, 2012)

Elaminopy said:


> I was hoping you'd say ISTP, so then I could be fairly certain of it since that is the most common one people have typed me as, in this thread, other threads, and other forums. INTP is second and ENTP is third. But you sound pretty knowledgeable and I had already been just about to settle on ISTP and was planning on doing so had you also said ISTP. ...
> 
> So, INTP sounds good, but ISTP is sounding better and better the more I think about it. Stupid bias.


I may be "pretty knowledgeable" about the MBTI, but I'm definitely _not_ very knowledgeable about you. My N lean is based on very limited input, and I didn't mean to suggest that, knowing what little I know at this point, I'd be particularly surprised if you were a mild S, or maybe essentially an X on that dimension.

It sounds to me like you've done quite a lot of looking into the theory and profiles and etc., and if you end up concluding the ISTP profiles fit you better, I'd be inclined to give that a lot of weight. But I'd also say that if, after all your reading, you still end up feeling pretty torn on S/N, it may make more sense to move forward with the idea that you're undecided or pretty much in the middle rather than feeling like you ought to come to a definite conclusion on one side or the other.

My own bias is that, if dichotomy-based analysis leans you one direction and "cognitive functions" analysis leans you the other direction, I'm more inclined to trust the dichotomy-based analysis — but, as I'm sure you know, that tends to be the minority view on internet forums. And I don't know that you're really dealing with that kind of split anyway.


----------



## Elaminopy (Jun 29, 2011)

reckful said:


> But I'd also say that if, after all your reading, you still end up feeling pretty torn on S/N, it may make more sense to move forward with the idea that you're undecided or pretty much in the middle rather than feeling like you ought to come to a definite conclusion on one side or the other.


I guess deciding on a middle instead of a definite type seems like a cop-out and like I'm saying I'm "too unique to fit into your dehumanizing categorization system". It also feels like I'm not finishing the job I started. Like searching for a lost treasure and your best lead so far turns up a dead end, so you just say, "Well, that means it doesn't exist." No it doesn't. You can't conclude that it doesn't exist until you've searched every inch of the world.

Besides, I can't pick IxTP on my type on here.


----------



## reckful (Jun 19, 2012)

Elaminopy said:


> Besides, I can't pick IxTP on my type on here.


Well, that kinda sucks. At INTJforum people can have as many x's as they think is appropriate, and there are quite a lot of members with at least one x, and in many cases they end up with that x after quite a lot of type-related pondering.

Jung himself, as I think I mentioned, said more people were x's on E/I than were either E or I — and he didn't rule it out for S/N or T/F, as far as I know. It seems strange to me that PerC doesn't have that flexibility.


----------



## Tru7h (Oct 16, 2012)

Okay. Let's get this straight. You are typing yourself as either ISTP or INTP in the belief, or at least hopes, that you are an ISTP. Yeah. Great. It really shouldn't matter. It only tells you what your cognitive functions are and in what order. I could be an INTP for all I care and live my life the way I want to.

However, I would support that you know what your cognitive functions are and only use the dichotomies as further supporters of exactly what order those functions go in. For example, if you classify yourself as ISTP, you are saying that you use Se as your auxiliary function and Ni as your tertiary function. Now, I believe these two functions work together through the concrete facts that the Se picks up and the patterns and impressions that Ni makes of it. If you classify yourself as an INTP, you are saying that you use Ne as your auxiliary function and Si as your tertiary function. The way I think these two work together is through the Ne speaking aloud about various ideas that are conjured based off a subject (subject being described as an idea, object, or person) and the Si seeks to find any available data that may support those ideas from its past information. Knowing that Se and Ne are completely different functions, you need to know which one you are or you will never know which one you are.

Also, ISTP and INTP are in two completely different temperaments. ISTP is in the "Experiencers" temperament, living for the here and now and not placing too much emphasis on the future. That doesn't mean that they won't think about the future, but rather that they would not get too worked up about it as SPs, especially STPs, are big on the "Well, why plan too far ahead when we don't know what will happen tomorrow?" kind of philosophy. INTPs are in the "Rationals" temperament, seeking the truth and facts on an intellectual level rather than on a personal or sensual one. NT's ("Rationals"), are more prone to live inside of their head and think rather than actually live in the physical world. Does that mean that they won't? Of course not. They are just more likely to be heavy intellectuals regarding any subject matter as versus to the SPs who want to simply take in information and act on it.

I admit, I feel like I bounce between the two, especially when I was a kid, but I always find myself most happy when I am engaged with sensual activities. What drives you? Intellectual curiosity (INTP) or sensual experience (ISTP)?


----------



## Elaminopy (Jun 29, 2011)

Tru7h said:


> Okay. Let's get this straight. You are typing yourself as either ISTP or INTP in the belief, or at least hopes, that you are an ISTP. Yeah. Great. It really shouldn't matter. It only tells you what your cognitive functions are and in what order. I could be an INTP for all I care and live my life the way I want to.


Actually, that's not the belief I'm typing myself on. It's only secondary and irrelevant. I'm typing myself on what I think I am and also with the knowledge that other people can see me in ways I can't. I'd like to be INTP more than anything, but I don't want that to let me conclude with that easier or quicker based on that. More people have typed me as ISTP than anything else, so I was hoping to be that only because that was seeming the most likely. The more who see me as ISTP, the more likely it is to be true. Since ISTP was looking most likely, I was hoping for more ISTP answers to be closer to a conclusion. I actually made this ridiculous chart once to tally up the types people saw most in me from all sources. I suppose I could add the ones from this thread into it and post it here, just for fun. And yes, it is fun.

Okay, here it is, updated for now:


*User**What they typed me as**That type's Dom**That type's Aux*Idec SdawkminnINTPTiNeEsteloreINFJNiFeTechnicalINFJNiFestuckENTPNeTiOrangeAppledISTPTiSeOnceajoanISTPTiSeReflecTcelfeRISTPTiSeWonkavisionISTPTiSeHavaneISxPTi/FiSeJustHerISTxTi/SiSe/TeSuchIronyISTxTi/SiSe/TeAlekseiISTPTiSeAnamalechIxFJNi/SiFeQuietIxTPTiNe/SevelINFJNiFeSavage IdealistESTPSeTiKing-Of-DespairISTPTiSeParadigmENTPNeTithunderxSFPSe/FiFi/SeBearRightINxPTi/FiNeMagic MirrorENTPNeTiVicky JoISFPFiSeEric BISTPTiSebethdethINTPTiNeLiaraINTPTiNeantiantxNTPTi/NeNe/TikasthuISTPTiSearkigosISTPTiSeJungyesMBTInoISTPTiSeBastINTPTiNeTeyboISTPTiSeTru7hIxTPTiNe/SeJabberbroccoliISTPTiSereckfulINTPTiNe


All counted up, these are the final figures. Dom ones get 2 points and Aux ones get 1. Unsure ones (with a "/") get 1 point for each function if Dom, 0 if Aux:

Ti - 47
Se - 17
Ne - 13
Ni - 7
Fi - 4
Fe - 4
Si - 3
Te - 0

Multiplying Dom by 4, Aux by 3, Ter by 2, and Inf by 1.

ISTP - Ti Se Ni Fe - 257
INTP - Ti Ne Si Fe - 237
ESTP - Se Ti Fe Ni - 224
ENTP - Ne Ti Fe Si - 204
INFJ - Ni Fe Ti Se - 151
ISFJ - Si Fe Ti Ne - 131
ENFJ - Fe Ni Se Ti - 118
ESFJ - Fe Si Ne Ti - 98
ESFP - Se Fi Te Ni - 87
ISFP - Fi Se Ni Te - 81
ENFP - Ne Fi Te Si - 67
INFP - Fi Ne Si Te - 61
ENTJ - Te Ni Se Fi - 59
INTJ - Ni Te Fi Se - 53
ESTJ - Te Si Ne Fi - 39
ISTJ - Si Te Fi Ne - 33

So, assuming 257 is the highest and therefore 100%, the following list shows the % of each of the types:

ISTP - 100
INTP - 92
ESTP - 87
ENTP - 79
INFJ - 59
ISFJ - 51
ENFJ - 46
ESFJ - 38
ESFP - 34
ISFP - 32
ENFP - 26
INFP - 24
ENTJ - 23
INTJ - 21
ESTJ - 15
ISTJ - 13



> I admit, I feel like I bounce between the two, especially when I was a kid, but I always find myself most happy when I am engaged with sensual activities. What drives you? Intellectual curiosity (INTP) or sensual experience (ISTP)?


Hmm, what drives me? I think curiosity drives me most. I mean, I'll be out on a hike and see some tree stump and _need_ to go jump up onto it. A tree limb close overhead? I'm hanging from it. I'm always jumping and touching my ceiling. Touching certain spots on the wall whenever I walk by. Trying not to step on lines on the sidewalk. If I see a pine cone, I need to step on it to feel and hear the crunching of it.

But that kind of stuff is what I do because I'm not doing anything else. I do that stuff to occupy myself because I'm outside and I can't do anything else. Or I'm walking from one place to another. I don't go out of my way to do those things. Most of the time I'm on the computer. I'd rather be on the computer, playing video games, watching a movie, watching something interesting on TV, or reading something interesting. My conversation is usually about things I'm curious about or ideas I had.

When was single and lived alone, on my days off I would spend all day on the computer either watching anime, Star Trek episodes I downloaded, trying to make joke viruses while listening to music, or playing video games. I would then take a break from it because I would get tired of it, so I'd look up movie times and go see a movie. On my way back after watching it, I was then eager to get back to what I was doing when I left, ready to spend several more hours at it.


----------



## Bast (Mar 23, 2011)

Elaminopy said:


> [ SNIP ]



Ho. Ly. Crap. Uh, I'll be back when I can form a more coherent thought about all that.


----------



## reckful (Jun 19, 2012)

Elaminopy said:


> Most of the time I'm on the computer. I'd rather be on the computer, playing video games, watching a movie, watching something interesting on TV, or reading something interesting. My conversation is usually about things I'm curious about or ideas I had.
> 
> When was single and lived alone, on my days off I would spend all day on the computer either watching anime, Star Trek episodes I downloaded, trying to make joke viruses while listening to music, or playing video games. I would then take a break from it because I would get tired of it, so I'd look up movie times and go see a movie. On my way back after watching it, I was then eager to get back to what I was doing when I left, ready to spend several more hours at it.


I wouldn't say this rules out IS, but it sounds more quintessentially IN to me. IN is the heart of nerd country. INs are the ones who tend to take their pop culture somewhat _seriously_. INs are the people who are the least likely to see internet vs. "real life" as a significant distinction.

I think it's also worth mentioning that your strong interest in figuring out your type is significantly more typical of INs than ISs.


----------



## Elaminopy (Jun 29, 2011)

I was walking home and realized a flaw in my chart. I'll see if the new method of calculating it produces different results, and I'll also include typings on my Youtube videos.


*User**Typed me**Dom**Aux**Ter**Inf*Idec SdawkminnINTPTiNeSiFeEsteloreINFJNiFeTiSeTechnicalINFJNiFeTiSestuckENTPNeTiFeSiOrangeAppledISTPTiSeNiFeOnceajoanISTPTiSeNiFeReflecTcelfeRISTPTiSeNiFeWonkavisionISTPTiSeNiFeHavaneISxPTi/FiSeNiFe/TeJustHerISTxTi/SiSe/TeNi/FiFe/NeSuchIronyISTxTi/SiSe/TeNi/FiFe/NeAlekseiISTPTiSeNiFeAnamalechIxFJNi/SiFeTiSe/NeQuietIxTPTiNe/SeSi/NiFevelINFJNiFeTiSeSavage IdealistESTPSeTiFeNiKing-Of-DespairISTPTiSeNiFeParadigmENTPNeTiFeSithunderxSFPFi/SeSe/FiNi/TeTe/NiBearRightINxPTi/FiNeSiFe/TeMagic MirrorENTPNeTiFeSiVicky JoISFPFiSeNiTeEric BISTPTiSeNiFebethdethINTPTiNeSiFeLiaraINTPTiNeSiFeantiantxNTPTi/NeNe/TiSi/FeFe/SikasthuISTPTiSeNiFearkigosISTPTiSeNiFeJungyesMBTInoISTPTiSeNiFeBastINTPTiNeSiFeTeyboISTPTiSeNiFeTru7hIxTPTiNe/SeSi/NiFeJabberbroccoliISTPTiSeNiFereckfulINTPTiNeSiFeKevin ClarksonINTJNiTeFiSeEJArendeeINTJNiTeFiSeSteven WisenINTPTiNeSiFeSanthire05ISTPTiSeNiFeINeffable FeiJoaINTJNiTeFiSeathanaisdcISTPTiSeNiFeburningsodiumINTPTiNeSiFegoodforweINTPTiNeSiFeMultitaskuINTJNiTeFiSe

So now, if we add 2 points to each dom (1 for each if split like Ti/Fi) and 1 for each aux we get:


Ti57Se19Ne16Ni15Fi5Fe4Te4Si3

So if we take each type and add the corresponding numbers of the dominant and auxiliary functions, multiplying dom by 2, we have:


ISTPTi Se133INTPTi Ne130ESTPSe Ti95ENTPNe Ti89ESFPSe Fi43ENFPNe Fi37INFJNi Fe34INTJNi Te34ISFPFi Se29INFPFi Ne26ENFJFe Ni23ENTJTe Ni23ESFJFe Si11ESTJTe Si11ISFJSi Fe10ISTJSi Te10

Here they are in graph form for comparison:


ISTPlllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllINTPllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllESTPlllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllENTPlllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllESFPlllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllENFPlllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllINFJllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllINTJllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllISFPlllllllllllllllllllllllllllllINFPllllllllllllllllllllllllllENFJlllllllllllllllllllllllENTJlllllllllllllllllllllllESFJlllllllllllESTJlllllllllllISFJllllllllllISTJllllllllll


----------



## Ellis Bell (Mar 16, 2012)

Wow, those graphs are impressive. How long did it take you to do them?


----------



## Elaminopy (Jun 29, 2011)

kasthu said:


> Wow, those graphs are impressive. How long did it take you to do them?


Well, to figure it out the first time, probably a couple hours. But after that, I just copy the code and update it with new data. With the calculator and notepad open on my other screen, it's pretty quick.


----------



## Jabberbroccoli (Mar 19, 2011)

I still think ISTP with a highly developed Ni, because I've seen a lot of Se in your posts. You observe everything, take it all into account, then formulate a response to the situation. That's very Ni, but driven by a lot of Se. I think you should be between INTJ and ISTP, not ISTP and INTP.


----------



## Elaminopy (Jun 29, 2011)

Jabberbroccoli said:


> I still think ISTP with a highly developed Ni, because I've seen a lot of Se in your posts. You observe everything, take it all into account, then formulate a response to the situation. That's very Ni, but driven by a lot of Se. I think you should be between INTJ and ISTP, not ISTP and INTP.


If you're referring to these charts, I believe that is all Ti. But I suspect you are talking about other posts of mine in other threads. So INTJ and ISTP. Because of the Ni thing. I guess I'll need to do some more reading into Se/Ni vs Ne/Si.


----------



## Jabberbroccoli (Mar 19, 2011)

Elaminopy said:


> If you're referring to these charts, I believe that is all Ti. But I suspect you are talking about other posts of mine in other threads. So INTJ and ISTP. Because of the Ni thing. I guess I'll need to do some more reading into Se/Ni vs Ne/Si.


I think that would be wise. I can't say I've seen much in the way of Ne from you. I can see where some stuff may have been Si, but mainly I've seen Se and Ni. Those functions, considering other details you've provided, are most likely to have shown in an ISTP or INTJ. I think an ISTP with a strong Ni is the most likely, but I'm really not seeing anything to make a case for INTP except stereotyping you over the fact you no-life it on video games when you have nothing better to do.

Your next post will be your 1,000th. Congratulations Elaminopy! You're a robot!


----------



## Elaminopy (Jun 29, 2011)

I just took this test that my co-worker sent to me: Personality Test Center - IPIP NEO five factor model of personality and these are my results:

EXTRAVERSION...............4
..Friendliness.............28
..Gregariousness...........13
..Assertiveness............10
..Activity Level...........1
..Excitement-Seeking.......46
..Cheerfulness.............6

AGREEABLENESS..............11
..Trust....................82
..Morality.................32
..Altruism.................1
..Cooperation..............26
..Modesty..................8
..Sympathy.................3

CONSCIENTIOUSNESS..........4
..Self-Efficacy............5
..Orderliness..............16
..Dutifulness..............5
..Achievement-Striving.....1
..Self-Discipline..........6
..Cautiousness.............71

NEUROTICISM................29
..Anxiety..................26
..Anger....................53
..Depression...............12
..Self-Consciousness.......69
..Immoderation.............21
..Vulnerability............28

OPENNESS TO EXPERIENCE.....14
..Imagination..............94
..Artistic Interests.......1
..Emotionality.............1
..Adventurousness..........56
..Intellect................50
..Liberalism...............11


----------



## ThreeTimes (Feb 3, 2013)

Hi,

to me it doesn't seem you are an INTP. I think I'm moderate INTP, so I compered you with me. 
I'm talking from my point of view. You seem to be very distant.
The way you describe things, and what things you pick to write...it doesn't match with me. You think about things but in a different way than I do. You seem to be introvert, because it looks like you live in your own world most of the time. 
I don't want to go into much detail right now. I tried to sum it up.

But as someone said, most of the people are in the middle.


----------



## Elaminopy (Jun 29, 2011)

ThreeTimes said:


> Hi,
> 
> to me it doesn't seem you are an INTP. I think I'm moderate INTP, so I compered you with me.
> I'm talking from my point of view. You seem to be very distant.
> ...


Thanks. I've determined that I'm ISTP now and find a lot more in common with other ISTPs on here than INTPs.


----------



## ThreeTimes (Feb 3, 2013)

Elaminopy said:


> Thanks. I've determined that I'm ISTP now and find a lot more in common with other ISTPs on here than INTPs.


Yes, the test results also showed that. You seemed calm, tactic, taking things easy, I mean for an INTP it seemed easy and calm. 
I'm very glad you did. It seemed it was very important for you.


----------

