# Why do INxx Come off as bigots?



## AHoFF (Mar 8, 2014)

Also EN. Have anyone noticed this?


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## Du Toit (Mar 2, 2014)

1. What's a bigot to you ?
2. Is your generalization sourced ?


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## LadyO.W.BernieBro (Sep 4, 2010)

Do elaborate.

Sounds a bit like a throw-around insult when applied to so many different types.


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## Wellsy (Oct 24, 2011)




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## candiemerald (Jan 26, 2014)

What...the hell? Well, this is a first for me


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## Thomas60 (Aug 7, 2011)

Assuming they're not a bigot:
Jealousy


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## Derange At 170 (Nov 26, 2013)

When people take their personal problems with someone they assume is of a particular type to the forum...


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## XDS (Sep 4, 2013)

In what world do we come off as bigots?

Finding _one_ woman worth marrying is hard enough.


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## LordDarthMoominKirby (Nov 2, 2013)

INs come off as bigots...
ENs come off as bigots...
I think what u mean is that u hate N types


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## Ryo (Nov 12, 2011)

Why does the OP come off as a bigot? Anyone else notice this?


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## Dosto Yevsky (Feb 9, 2014)

I *Se*Nse Pness envy.


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## Scelerat (Oct 21, 2012)

> *big·ot*
> 
> : A person who strongly and unfairly dislikes other people, ideas, etc. : A bigoted person; _especially_ : A person who hates or refuses to accept the members of a particular group (such as a racial or religious group)




I fail to see how that always a bad thing and secondly using this definition of "unfair"




> *un·fair*
> 
> _adjective_\ˌən-ˈfer\: treating people in a way that favors some over others : not fair, honest, or just




Doesn't seem like much of a problem. Using the definition, if someone I knew insisted that the sun revolves around the Earth, and that the Earth is flat, I would technically be a bigot for treating people who are members of a group with those beliefs as not being the sharpest knives in the drawer. 

Of course, there is the awesomeness of "prejudice" logic that if you strongly and unfairly dislike bigots as a group, you are yourself a bigot and thus must strongly and unfairly dislike yourself.


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## infjbrosef (Dec 1, 2012)

I will agree a lot of INTJ's and me come off as contrarions always challenging arguments. I think it is due to evolution, naturally wanting to find holes and inconsistencies may have been a valuable trait in our evolution. I tell you what though arguing with our personality types is one of the most frustrating and difficult things I experience.


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## Scelerat (Oct 21, 2012)

infjbrosef said:


> I will agree a lot of INTJ's and me come off as contrarions always challenging arguments. I think it is due to evolution, naturally wanting to find holes and inconsistencies may have been a valuable trait in our evolution. I tell you what though arguing with our personality types is one of the most frustrating and difficult things I experience.


Just a general observation: If 10/10 people agree, you have a circlejerk on your hands.


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## kadda1212 (Sep 21, 2012)

I AM NOT A BIGOT. :angry:

I guess there's an overall pattern to be observed in the world: the are too many assholes walking around. But you can be any personality type for that.


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## infjbrosef (Dec 1, 2012)

Scelerat said:


> Just a general observation: If 10/10 people agree, you have a circlejerk on your hands.


That's true it is important to challenge things, but sometimes it can be seen as an annoyance or bigotry.


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## Scelerat (Oct 21, 2012)

infjbrosef said:


> That's true it is important to challenge things, but sometimes it can be seen as an annoyance or bigotry.


I don't care. If 9/10 people agree and I'm the 10th man, I view it as my duty to disagree just to make them sweat. Good ideas and competent people aren't scared of being challenged. When someone pulls the "ist" card you should be proud of yourself, it means they concede that they cannot support their stance. 

For all intents and purposes, I'm proud to be seen as bigoted against people who cannot get their companies into the black, who are unable to make sound decisions, and get efficiency into their lives. I'm proud to be bigoted against people who fall into "Fe-traps", who make emotional decisions, who fail to think things through and a host of other things. 

Challenging things improves them or kills them, survival of the fittest and all that.


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## Grandmaster Yoda (Jan 18, 2014)

No I haven't noticed but a few people are getting defensive.


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## Permeate (May 27, 2012)

lol


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## EricFisher (Feb 18, 2014)

Both INs and ENs come off as bigots?
So why not just say all intuitive type?
That's a terrible generalization to make. I know many different types of people that are all bigoted in some way.


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## Derange At 170 (Nov 26, 2013)

Dude's probably try'na troll.


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## infjbrosef (Dec 1, 2012)

Scelerat said:


> I don't care. If 9/10 people agree and I'm the 10th man, I view it as my duty to disagree just to make them sweat. Good ideas and competent people aren't scared of being challenged. When someone pulls the "ist" card you should be proud of yourself, it means they concede that they cannot support their stance.
> 
> For all intents and purposes, I'm proud to be seen as bigoted against people who cannot get their companies into the black, who are unable to make sound decisions, and get efficiency into their lives. I'm proud to be bigoted against people who fall into "Fe-traps", who make emotional decisions, who fail to think things through and a host of other things.
> 
> Challenging things improves them or kills them, survival of the fittest and all that.


You just proved my point in your first sentence alone. I am probably proving my point to by writing this response too lol.


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## Scelerat (Oct 21, 2012)

infjbrosef said:


> You just proved my point in your first sentence alone. I am probably proving my point to by writing this response too lol.


Seeing as "annoyance" is entirely subjective and I already proved that the definition for bigotry is moronic, I fail to see that you had a point to begin with.


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## infjbrosef (Dec 1, 2012)

Scelerat said:


> Seeing as "annoyance" is entirely subjective and I already proved that the definition for bigotry is moronic, I fail to see that you had a point to begin with.


The tenacity in how INTJ's and ENTJ's in particular pursue arguments can be taxing on others which might lead them to believe we are bigots.


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## Lurianar (Apr 17, 2013)

The fact that the OP hasn't answered yet is enough proof for me to call this thread shenanigans to make us lose our temper.

He/she's clever. Well played, because you obviously succeeded.


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## infjbrosef (Dec 1, 2012)

Lurianar said:


> The fact that the OP hasn't answered yet is enough proof for me to call this thread shenanigans to make us lose our temper.
> 
> He/she's clever. Well played, because you obviously succeeded.


I don't think anyone is losing there temper here over him. But I will say his original post was not accurate, there is no way I would consider INFP's and INFJ's to be bigots, both seem to be quite down playing of themselves if anything.


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## Strelok (Aug 16, 2013)

I'm only prejudiced against SJs because they are annoying and often can't understand abstract ideas.


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## Dosto Yevsky (Feb 9, 2014)

I'm highly biased against Isabella Briggs Myers and other amateurs engaged in pseudoscience.


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## infjbrosef (Dec 1, 2012)

OrchestraInside said:


> I'm highly biased against Isabella Briggs Myers and other amateurs engaged in pseudoscience.


What exactly are you biased against? I can see her work as a valuable resource as many others do.


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## Dosto Yevsky (Feb 9, 2014)

infjbrosef said:


> What exactly are you biased against? I can see her work as a valuable resource as many others do.


"The reason scientists do controlled studies rather than rely solely on their clinical observations and memories as  Jung did is because it is easy to deceive ourselves and fit the data to our hypotheses and theories."

Myers-Briggs Type Indicator - The Skeptic's Dictionary - Skepdic.com

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forer_effect
[/URL]


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## infjbrosef (Dec 1, 2012)

OrchestraInside said:


> "The reason scientists do controlled studies rather than rely solely on their clinical observations and memories as Jung did is because it is easy to deceive ourselves and fit the data to our hypotheses and theories."
> 
> Myers-Briggs Type Indicator - The Skeptic's Dictionary - Skepdic.com
> 
> Forer effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


If we assumed Jung and Isabella were mistaken in their theories don't you think other people would have seen the mistakes and discredited it immediately? It is definitely a soft science, psychology, but the reason for it's popularity is that it can provide valuable insights into our daily lives which I think this personality type theory does.


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## Dosto Yevsky (Feb 9, 2014)

infjbrosef said:


> If we assumed Jung and Isabella were mistaken in their theories don't you think other people would have seen the mistakes and discredited it immediately? It is definitely a soft science, psychology, but the reason for it's popularity is that it can provide valuable insights into our daily lives which I think this personality type theory does.


There's a reason people like Ayn Rand, Isabella Briggs Myers and Rupert Sheldrake do not receive large numbers of scientific papers discrediting their silly ideas. It's the same reason Martin Luther King wouldn't have debated democracy with Kim Jong Un.

Many people find horoscopies useful, too.


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## infjbrosef (Dec 1, 2012)

OrchestraInside said:


> There's a reason people like Ayn Rand, Isabella Briggs Myers and Rupert Sheldrake do not receive large numbers of scientific papers discrediting their silly ideas. It's the same reason Martin Luther King wouldn't have debated democracy with Kim Jong Un.
> 
> Many people find horoscopies useful, too.


What reason are you talking about? I fail to understand your analogy. It is too dismissive and demeaning to call personality type theory "silly" as I suspect it has had nothing but positive influence on the world, it also gives us great insight and understanding of ourselves and others, hardly a 'silly' theory.


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## Dosto Yevsky (Feb 9, 2014)

infjbrosef said:


> What reason are you talking about? I fail to understand your analogy. It is too dismissive and demeaning to call personality type theory "silly" as I suspect it has had nothing but positive influence on the world, it also gives us great insight and understanding of ourselves and others, hardly a 'silly' theory.


When an idea is so obviously ridiculous and pseudoscientific that it does not merit the recognition a proper scientific discourse would offer. Creationism, Deepak Chopraism and scientology spring to mind as examples.

MBTI has a significant negative impact, primarily in the corporate world, but also by stereotyping and oversimplifying complex psychological issues. If you're into this, Big Five does have some scientific backing to its approach. I'm not against psychology, only against pseudoscience. A warning bell or two should ring when accredited psychologists view MBTI as a joke, surely?


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## infjbrosef (Dec 1, 2012)

OrchestraInside said:


> When an idea is so obviously ridiculous and pseudoscientific that it does not merit the recognition a proper scientific discourse would offer. Creationism, Deepak Chopraism and scientology spring to mind as examples.
> 
> MBTI has a significant negative impact, primarily in the corporate world, but also by stereotyping and oversimplifying complex psychological issues. If you're into this, Big Five does have some scientific backing to its approach. I'm not against psychology, only against pseudoscience. A warning bell or two should ring when accredited psychologists view MBTI as a joke, surely?


What exactly is so 'obviously ridiculous' about personality type theory? 

Also what negative impacts on the corporate world are you referring to?

I agree though you should always keep an arms length between personality theory and your perception of yourself, as personality type only makes up a small part of who we are. 

Psychology on the whole is often guilty of over-simplifying complex psychological issues.


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## Dosto Yevsky (Feb 9, 2014)

infjbrosef said:


> What exactly is so 'obviously ridiculous' about personality type theory?
> 
> Also what negative impacts on the corporate world are you referring to?
> 
> ...


Reliability, validity, consistency. This provides a decent summary.

Negative impacts in the corporate world = they really buy into MBTI and believe people can be squeezed into 16 boxes and treat them accordingly, which is ridiculous consindering the real-world complexity and plasticity of personalities. From MBTI-based team-building events to career counselling, this oversimplified approach really risks alienating people from each other and forcing them into small boxes that don't fit them.

MBTI is a multimillion dollar business for its current owners, CPP Inc.

Finally, cognitive functions are pure Jungian speculation and have virtually zero supporting scientific evidence. They probably do not exist and if they do, they are far more complex than the Jungian/MB model would suggest.


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## infjbrosef (Dec 1, 2012)

OrchestraInside said:


> Reliability, validity, consistency. This provides a decent summary.
> 
> Negative impacts in the corporate world = they really buy into MBTI and believe people can be squeezed into 16 boxes and treat them accordingly, which is ridiculous consindering the real-world complexity and plasticity of personalities. From MBTI-based team-building events to career counselling, this oversimplified approach really risks alienating people from each other and forcing them into small boxes that don't fit them.
> 
> ...


Personality type theory might be speculation and it does have zero scientific studies supporting it. In saying that so does a lot of psychology. Despite this, it is still useful to us because it does help us understand who we are and why we do things the way we do. You can see this is the case for a lot of people too if respected companies have bought into this theory and the owners of CPP Inc. are multi millionaires.

I agree however that in the real world personalities are far more complex and personality type theory is in no means a full description, however I and many others think that it is a _good _description. As with anything in else in science I hope one day someone can further explain, or transform, this theory.

I disagree that it alienates us. For example my dad and me have always conflicted with each other, I still appreciated him and loved him however we did conflict a lot. After getting him to do the test and finding he was a ESxP it gave me great insight in why he acted the way he did, in effect bringing us closer rather than alienating us.


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## Dosto Yevsky (Feb 9, 2014)

infjbrosef said:


> Personality type theory might be speculation and it does have zero scientific studies supporting it. In saying that so does a lot of psychology. Despite this, it is still useful to us because it does help us understand who we are and why we do things the way we do. You can see this is the case for a lot of people too if respected companies have bought into this theory and the owners of CPP Inc. are multi millionaires.


Bullshit is bullshit even when it makes a lot of money.



> I disagree that it alienates us. For example my dad and me have always conflicted with each other, I still appreciated him and loved him however we did conflict a lot. After getting him to do the test and finding he was a ESxP it gave me great insight in why he acted the way he did, in effect bringing us closer rather than alienating us.


Good.


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## infjbrosef (Dec 1, 2012)

OrchestraInside said:


> Bullshit is bullshit even when it makes a lot of money.
> 
> 
> 
> Good.


I wonder, if you disregard and detest personality theory so much, why did you choose this forum to engage in?


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## Dosto Yevsky (Feb 9, 2014)

infjbrosef said:


> I wonder, if you disregard and detest personality theory so much, why did you choose this forum to engage in?


http://personalitycafe.com/nfs-temp...you-become-personality-fan-2.html#post4768390

Also because I like misanthropy with my morning coffee.


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