# Zootopia MBTI



## Parrot (Feb 22, 2015)

Sidewinder said:


> Se Extroversion and Feeling ... well ... that kinda sounds like ... ESFP, no?
> 
> I think Rich Moore and Byron Howard have a good track record and know what they are doing. But I do see your point. There are a lot of influences in a movie and particularly in animation. It just takes one misstep by an animator to throw people off.
> 
> But even in RL, people use their auxiliaries and inferior functions, so no one is perfectly on on-type. In movies, I like to look for tendencies and preferences, and what the character does in key scenes. Sometimes the functional stack is helpful, but even without the Fe vs Fi debate, I see S > N and P > J in Judy.


I should add that I saw Ni/Se, not just Se, which is why I believe she's ENFJ. I saw a lot of Fe in her character as she often adapted her emotions to how others were feelings (Or at least how she perceived them). Her encouragement to Nick was meant to sway his mood, not to maintain it as separate, like Fi likes to do.

As far as what @Vunar said...really? INFP & INFJ. I related to Nick too. Just because someone is relatable doesn't make them your type.


----------



## aus2020 (Jun 29, 2011)

Sidewinder said:


> Heh ... I'm not quite *that* bad. XD I've never even been arrested. I did talk my way out of being suspended from university ("you know I could have sworn we had a liquor license for that event") and got away with a warning. Got more than a few trips to detention in high school where I got to know fellow SPs from the vocational track (pretty good and surprisingly smart guys who just didn't fit in the school setting and were going nowhere fast).



I was just kidding. It's not common for a person to use legal terms outside of the legal, judiciary and police areas. Unless someone has a penchant for watching crime tv series.


----------



## aus2020 (Jun 29, 2011)

When it comes to story development of fictional characters, they are often based on characteristics of people IRL. I think Judy's personality is fairly consistent throughout the story.

Zootopia: Judy Hopps [ENFJ] | Funky MBTI in Fiction


----------



## Sidewinder (May 22, 2009)

aus2020 said:


> I was just kidding. It's not common for a person to use legal terms outside of the legal, judiciary and police areas. Unless someone has a penchant for watching crime tv series.


No worries. You guys tease us about our sometimes suspect behavior all the time. I'm used to it. 

Actually, I do like detective/cop movies. And I did think about going into the police at one time. But I decided I was a little too short to be effective.



Drunk Parrot said:


> I should add that I saw Ni/Se, not just Se, which is why I believe she's ENFJ. I saw a lot of Fe in her character as she often adapted her emotions to how others were feelings (Or at least how she perceived them). Her encouragement to Nick was meant to sway his mood, not to maintain it as separate, like Fi likes to do.


One final thing ... just because someone makes a kind gesture, like comforting someone when they are sad, encouraging them to pursue a career, or providing a compliment, doesn't mean they are FJs. Any FP with good common sense knows when and how to observe simple niceties; they have decent EQ and aren't a hard-assed group. (I do things like that, and I'm not ENFJ.) Most smart and well-educated Ps tend to be able to use any Ji or Je function as an inferior/support to some degree. 

And that's a pitfall of relying on observed functions over preferences to type someone, as the funky MBTI site does. Judy uses several functions at least once. So a technical argument could be made for her being any NJ or SP type. But most of those are obviously wrong. Her preference is toward her identity, role, values, and self-expression rather than to others or to groups. She has the moody, soulful, you-bunnies-are-so-emotional, heart-on-her-sleeve style of a FP rather than the smooth control of an FJ.

An SP uses Se to observe the world and then analyzes and decides what to do (via Ni), whereas a NJ starts with a plan/goal in mind and then observes how reality needs to change to get there. Judy consistently takes the freewheeling and unplanned approach of an SP -- she finds/sees/hears some evidence and then decides/reacts. She doesn't start her investigation with a detailed plan and then start moving pieces to see how to get there. She consistently makes spur-of-the-moment and even impulsive decisions (I provided a list earlier). She even quits because she observes that she has violated her values. So if she moves through the world the way an SP does (and the way Nick does), how is she an NJ? I still haven't heard a good argument for her as a J.

Or put another way. If you gave her the MBTI test, would she get ENFJ as a result? No, no I don't think she would.

And with that, I think I've given cartoon bunnies and foxes all the time and space they deserve.


----------



## Parrot (Feb 22, 2015)

Sidewinder said:


> And with that, I think I've given cartoon bunnies and foxes all the time and space they deserve.


I agree. Bugs Bunny is an ENTP, though


----------



## Meter90 (Apr 8, 2016)

@Sidewinder
Okay, um, I disagree with you pretty much entirely. Just so we're clear, I don't mean to disrespect you, or diss your opinion, but I see Judy waaaaaay differently, and I'll explain how/why:


Sidewinder said:


> One final thing ... Just because someone makes a kind gesture, like comforting someone when they are sad, encouraging them to pursue a career, or providing a compliment, doesn't mean they are FJs. Any FP with good common sense knows when and how to observe simple niceties; they have decent EQ and aren't a hard-assed group. (I do things like that, and I'm not ENFJ.) Most smart and well-educated Ps tend to be able to use any Ji or Je function as an inferior/support to some degree.


First of all, you're right. I agree with you that kind gestures don't automatically mean that she's Fe dominant. However, the fact that she's constantly making nice gestures throughout the movie, such as fist-bumping the rhino on her first day, complimenting the little rodent lady right after she saves her from that giant donut, trying to reason with the jaguar driver before entering his house, talking openly and with genuine compassion with that fox who was a bully to her when they were still kids... The list goes on. The point is that I believe all of those are a sign of seeking harmony constantly, about being in tune with other's feelings to the point where even strangers can become friends almost instantly to her. If it was an inferior trait, it would only come out once in a while (since she would have other motives that occupy her mind, such as maintaining the status quo (Si/Se), or enforcing the law no matter what). Instead, The movie is jam-packed with attempts to harmonize with pretty much anyone who comes her way. Except for criminals, which she already has a reason to doubt, thanks to Ni, and a reason to pursue, thanks to her Fe.



Sidewinder said:


> And that's a pitfall of relying on observed functions over preferences to type someone, as the funky MBTI site does. Judy uses several functions at least once. So a technical argument could be made for her being any NJ or SP type. But most of those are obviously wrong. Her preference is toward her identity, role, values, and self-expression rather than to others or to groups. She has the moody, soulful, you-bunnies-are-so-emotional, heart-on-her-sleeve style of a FP rather than the smooth control of an FJ.


I disagree completely with you on this one. Firstly, regarding her preference, all she does the whole movie is try to help other people. Why did she want to become a cop? Because she wants to help everybody, that's it, that's the whole reason. Her identity, role, values and self-expression, literally all rely on her helping other people. How is that you might ask? Well, if we really think about it, becoming a cop presents 3 things she wants to achieve:
1) Standing up to the bad guys and putting them in their place so that everyone else can live in peace. We know she aspires to do that, since she's been marked by her childhood experience with that fox bully. She saw that there was injustice afoot, and she wasn't afraid to stand up to him. But why would she stand up to him? Because she wanted to help her friends. That's ExFJ in a nutshell if you ask me.
2) Overcoming the fact that she's perceived as just another "dumb bunny" to society. She thought that if she could beat the odds and become a cop, everyone would stop disrespecting her. In the end it didn't really matter and people still judged her on the basis that she's a bunny, but her motivation from the outset was to change that preconceived notion. That was fueled by Se, seeing the way people judged her, but dominated by Ni, with a will to change that instead of accepting it. That's NJ.
3) Proving to her parents, herself, and to everyone else, that anyone can become anything they want. She wants to show everyone that they shouldn't just stay in their respective circles all the time, and she wants to do that by filling a role of an underdog. She's a lot more concerned about people as a whole than she is about just herself. Now, of course she has a will to live up to her own expectations, but that will comes from her desire to inspire others. That's a full-on ENFJ thing to do, if you ask me.
Also, being moody and soulful and overemotional and wearing your heart on your sleeve is very much an FJ thing. Think about it, "Extroverted Feeling", basically means you let your emotions show. FPs do that as well, but they're just less selective about it. They use Ne/Se to bring out their emotions, while FJs use Ni/Si to filter how, when, and how much they want to show their emotions. We can see Judy does this when her parents call her on her phone and she chooses to hide her feelings about how shitty her day went because she knows her parents would jump on the opportunity to encourage her to quit.



Sidewinder said:


> An SP uses Se to observe the world and then analyzes and decides what to do (via Ni), whereas a NJ starts with a plan/goal in mind and then observes how reality needs to change to get there. Judy consistently takes the freewheeling and unplanned approach of an SP -- she finds/sees/hears some evidence and then decides/reacts.


The thought process is the exact same for both SPs and NJs on this one. Se/Ni and Ni/Se act almost the same. The only difference is that an NJ would start out with an end goal in mind that is more akin to a global truth/a desire for change, before going into action. Whereas an SP would have a goal that is more about maintaining what is already there. Judy has both sides of the coin here. Her Se goal is cracking the case, but her larger, Ni goal is showing the chief that she's just as good of a cop as anyone else. That said, I think SPs and NJs would act pretty much the same here, so that distinction doesn't really do anything.



Sidewinder said:


> She doesn't start her investigation with a detailed plan and then start moving pieces to see how to get there. She consistently makes spur-of-the-moment and even impulsive decisions (I provided a list earlier). She even quits because she observes that she has violated her values. So if she moves through the world the way an SP does (and the way Nick does), how is she an NJ? I still haven't heard a good argument for her as a J.


Well, the reason that she doesn't start the investigation with a plan, is that she barely has anything to go off of. All she has is a photo of where that otter guy was last seen. If she had more information, I'm sure she would plan it differently, but she doesn't. The fact that she only has one piece of evidence is a hard fact that she accepts. But as soon as she sees that Nick was at the scene, she jumps on that trail, instead of trying to ask people around that location. That's Ni trumping Se in my eyes.



Sidewinder said:


> She consistently makes spur-of-the-moment and even impulsive decisions (I provided a list earlier). She even quits because she observes that she has violated her values.


Being decisive and reacting to the moment does not mean that you do it without any prior thought. The fact that she decides to go on the hunt in a blink of an eye, or quit being a cop because she failed to live up to what she had hoped, is an Ni/Se thing for sure, but again, an SP would probably act the same as an NJ here. I think it just means that she's decisive, not that she's impulsive.

So if she moves through the world like an SP does, and an NJ moves very similarly, what's the difference? Well I'll tell you what, the fact that her Ni comes before her Se. I can say from experience, that knowing something internal intuitively and sensing something externally, go together very smoothly, but what matters is that Ni comes out more often, and more instinctively to an ENFJ. Let's take for example making breakfast for someone you love, that also happened to accidentally offend you the other day, plus, you're tired and you're not in the best physical condition (and let's just assume that we have an F dom). If you happen to be an xNFJ, you might want to reprimand what happened, and attempt to show the other person that you have forgiven them (if you you have indeed forgiven them). So you overcome that tiredness and you make the effort, since you believe it will represent your feelings very well. If you happen to be an xSFP, you might want to show them that it's all water under the bridge, and that words are just words, so you overcome that tiredness because you feel like it doesn't matter anymore. And as you can see, we have two very similar situations, but for two slightly different reasonings.

My point is that if you look hard enough, you will see just how Ni wins over Se in Judy, and while she still has both functions to influence her actions, intuition is the big boy that really guides her on an overall scale.

I hope those are enough good arguments for you :happy:


----------



## sojinyura (Jun 21, 2015)

Nick is not an ESTP, he's an ENTP. Believe me when I say that most Se users I know, be it strong ones or weak ones, find it extremely hard to hold a grudge or be defined by their past in any way. They are very rarely strongly affected by a past experience. 

My typing method is through finding the weaknesses of the characters before doing anything else, and in cases like this one is where it proofs to be the most effective to me, because if I was looking at it thinking 'Is it Se? Is it Ne?' I'd drive myself nuts because this is an adventure movie and inevitably the characters are gonna be engaged in action which might make it hard to tell how much is actually Se and how much isn't, because unless you have strong Si users, the characters are rarely not gonna make decisions so fast that's gonna seem impulsive. 

Therefore I made it my mission to see whether Nick had inferior Si or inferior Ni, and I didn't even have to try. He certainly has inferior Si. That one experience that appears in flashbacks has shaped him into who he is and he has admited it himself. He can recall exactly which was the event that changed him, it's not like he just developed his personality along the way and he didn't even notice. I (and my brother, an ESTP, for example) have had many traumatic experiences that could have had an strong effect on me in the past but the biggest fault of strong Se users is hitting the same wall many times, being unable to hold grudges because we move on from things way too fast, not allowing ourselves to fully grow from our experiences. That's because we find difficulty in using past experiences as a source of knowledge and judging. 

Not only that, but if you compare Nick to Judy, who had excellent Se, she's much quicker to act than he is during times of stress, for better or worse. When they are under pressure, Judy's tertiary function is triggered and her Se makes her be fast to react and along with her Ni, she sees what might be the most effective solution for the plan and acts on it, even when it might not be the smartest thing (but of course it's a Disney movie, so things always end up turning out just fine... in a realistic movie, her Se could have gotten them killed). If Nick was an ESTP, he should be much more impulsive than she is, or at least more _chaotically_ impulsive, since there'd be inferior Ni in there. Meanwhile, he shows no Se when compared to Judy, if anything he's dubious of her actions most of the time and either tries to stop her if he finds them dangerous or he goes along with them if they make sense to him.

He has been stuck doing the same thing since he was 12, behaving the same way ever since, closing his view on the world and not allowing himself to open up to either new experience or new people. He's a clear case of very toxic inferior Si. 

Like, my Se isn't even dominant and I already have a hard enough time letting the past have any effect on me, which many times can be a bad thing because the past and making mistakes are both a wonderful source of knowledge. However, our weakness is that we never let things affect us for long enough. No xSTP would allow ourselves to be defined by a past experience. Maybe I'd believe ESTP for Nick if it was a pessimistic view of the future that negatively defined him, but that's not the case.


----------



## Sidewinder (May 22, 2009)

I said I was done with this. But I thought of a kinda cool way of talking about how Fe is used by FJ vs Perceivers which goes way way beyond the movie, and I think explains this, so I'll hop back in (no pun intended)



Meter90 said:


> I hope those are enough good arguments for you


Well, no. Not really. Sorry. I didn't get your whole argument about Ni vs Se, and your examples of Fe are the same grab bag of stuff that could be Fe or Fi, or is actually Fi, or is neither, or is Fe:4/Fe:5 kinda stuff.

But I never properly explained why it's mid-tier Fe and not FJ Fe. FJs are power users of Fe. Some examples of top-notch Fe include: leadership of groups; fitting in anywhere and finding a place in the hierarchy; a deep understanding of the true needs, motivations, and character of others; being able to pick the best reaction and response to a difficult situation; being able to convince and persuade others. Judy can't really do any of that. In fact, she's pretty miserable at it. She continually misreads people, provides the wrong response, fails to make her case, doesn't seem to fit in either in Bunnytown or on the police force, and spends most of the movie either alone or with Nick. Her lack of Fe nearly gets herself killed, nearly gets herself thrown off the force (3 times!) and pretty much starts a civil war. That's an ENFJ?! She's not a Fe-dominant person, that's for sure. So what *are* we seeing from her? What's fooling people?

If we follow Fe through the other types, what happens to it? The same thing that happens to the other "establishment" function Te -- it crosses over to the P side of the grid. And that's where it becomes subtle, weird and even frightening! I think the EJs of the world realize that the perception side is kinda trouble. And this outsider/trickster world has been given these very powerful functions to "use up". Yep, we can do that. 

SPs (and NPs too) can misuse or be haunted by these inferior functions, but they can also use them in some interesting ways. Most commonly, they are heuristics. SPs keep their eyes open, see how the experts handle Fe/Te and mimic it to get the effect they want. There is also a deceptive quality to this use. It's sometimes very handy to show a (completely feigned) surface level commitment to establishment values to keep authority figures off our backs and do what we want. And finally, Fe is used at the 3-5 level to codify in and out groups. Slang, expressions, references, hand gestures, all the way down to gang signs and body piercings and tattoos come from and are all used by Ps to identify who's in the tribe and who's not. It can be dangerous to have authority figures snooping around. We all learn that by high school.

And that's the level at which Fe shows up in Judy. She has learned that a few niceties grease the wheels (and admittedly she is pretty nice). She's anxious to have you (and Bogo and the mayor and ...) think she's this straight-arrow valedictorian type, and not a firecracker who has little respect for authority (the same way that Nick wears the tie). I now suspect the fist-dap is also used to determine if the fellow cops are like her or not ... they're not. She and Nick spend the first part of the movie scoping each other out; seeing if they are on the same side. One of the biggest signifiers they use is "the hustle", a world with illicit and criminal (even sexual) connotations. He hustles her and brags about it, leaving no doubt over who he is. She then hustles him too, indicating she's no by-the-book cop. She hustles him again by throwing his carrot pen over the fence allowing her to break the law and enter the compound. They've pretty much established what they both are by that time and that allows them to trust each other and work together. Later on, they team up to hustle the Fe criminal mastermind (via something that resembles sexual role-play). She uses her graduation speech to give a shout out to Nick, he hustles his way on to the police force, and is someone still running that Pawpsicle scam even in the final scene? It all works out, but it wouldn't have without that foxy use of mid-level Fe. Why have two trickster animals if you don't want ... tricksters? And, again, not evil -- good-bad-but-not-evil.

So no doubt some people think she's ENFJ. She (and the movie) kinda hustles you into thinking she is one. 

Okay ... okay ... now I'm done. Get out the shotgun if I come back! XD


----------



## Meter90 (Apr 8, 2016)

@Sidewinder
Okay man, I'm not going to argue with you. I might not agree with you, but hey, different people, different perspectives, that's what makes the world interesting. If there's one thing we can agree upon, it's that we both really like this movie, and the fact that we went to such lengths to protect our opinions on this cartoon rabbit is only a sign of how much she's a good character. So yeah, main conclusion: awesome movie, awesome and complex main character.


----------



## Parrot (Feb 22, 2015)

sojinyura said:


> Nick is not an ESTP, he's an ENTP. Believe me when I say that most Se users I know, be it strong ones or weak ones, find it extremely hard to hold a grudge or be defined by their past in any way. They are very rarely strongly affected by a past experience.
> 
> My typing method is through finding the weaknesses of the characters before doing anything else, and in cases like this one is where it proofs to be the most effective to me, because if I was looking at it thinking 'Is it Se? Is it Ne?' I'd drive myself nuts because this is an adventure movie and inevitably the characters are gonna be engaged in action which might make it hard to tell how much is actually Se and how much isn't, because unless you have strong Si users, the characters are rarely not gonna make decisions so fast that's gonna seem impulsive.
> 
> ...


That's completely wrong, as far as the past not affecting STPs. That scenario was a light take on emotional trauma that people experience. If anything they made Nick too sensitive despite the fact that he was a sociopath at this point. Ti can take a rational view, but emotions are separate from cognitive functions.

Still, I don't think the movie took a realistic view, as it was geared towards kids.


----------



## sojinyura (Jun 21, 2015)

Drunk Parrot said:


> That's completely wrong, as far as the past not affecting STPs. That scenario was a light take on emotional trauma that people experience. If anything they made Nick too sensitive despite the fact that he was a sociopath at this point. Ti can take a rational view, but emotions are separate from cognitive functions.
> 
> Still, I don't think the movie took a realistic view, as it was geared towards kids.


I'm sure trauma was a part of it. The thing is when everything else in the movie signs towards him being an ENTP, the past affecting him to that extent only makes the typing even clearer and further from ESTP. Most of the people I've met who deal with PTSD or issues related to trauma tend to be Si users, and this is not a ridiculous statement to make. Any type of brain which processes information in a way that retains past data as a source of knowledge will be more prone to do so. Emotions may be separate from cognitive functions, but emotions are not abstract, they are chemicals modulated by neurotransmitters and so are cognitive functions. The brain makes connections and while some of their parts are separated, it still can make connections between different parts of it when dealing with a certain type of information. It's clear that your personality type doesn't completely determine how you're going to feel, but it's still gonna make you more prone to processing information in ways that may make you react a certain kind of way, which is why Se users are more prone to impulsivity than Si types and Si types are more prone to withdrawal caused by trauma than Se types. 

And if you don't use these kind of details to type characters by seeing what has caused the weaknesses of characters or what those weaknesses theirselves are, how can you possibly identify tertiary/inferior functions without using superficial and bland arguments to support the typing? If Nick had shown to be an extreme ESTP which simply happened to suffer from trauma, I'd have gone for ESTP. The thing is that ENTP makes ultimately the most sense. 

Also, about him being a 'sociopath' at that point, I think that's diagnosing anti-social personality disorder very lightly. He was very clearly not a sociopath, but a character with a lot of emotional baggage he was not dealing with. Repressing your emotions is not the same thing as not having them.


----------



## Lord Fudgingsley (Mar 3, 2013)

ENFJ for Judy makes a lot of sense. I had thought Se dom, but it's clearly Se controlled by some kind of ethical judgment. ENFJ does indeed seem like a good typing.

I'm firmly inclined to ESTP over ENTP for Nick. I don't see any kind of Ne within the character.


----------



## Parrot (Feb 22, 2015)

sojinyura said:


> I'm sure trauma was a part of it. The thing is when everything else in the movie signs towards him being an ENTP, the past affecting him to that extent only makes the typing even clearer and further from ESTP. Most of the people I've met who deal with PTSD or issues related to trauma tend to be Si users, and this is not a ridiculous statement to make. Any type of brain which processes information in a way that retains past data as a source of knowledge will be more prone to do so. Emotions may be separate from cognitive functions, but emotions are not abstract, they are chemicals modulated by neurotransmitters and so are cognitive functions. The brain makes connections and while some of their parts are separated, it still can make connections between different parts of it when dealing with a certain type of information. It's clear that your personality type doesn't completely determine how you're going to feel, but it's still gonna make you more prone to processing information in ways that may make you react a certain kind of way, which is why Se users are more prone to impulsivity than Si types and Si types are more prone to withdrawal caused by trauma than Se types.
> 
> And if you don't use these kind of details to type characters by seeing what has caused the weaknesses of characters or what those weaknesses theirselves are, how can you possibly identify tertiary/inferior functions without using superficial and bland arguments to support the typing? If Nick had shown to be an extreme ESTP which simply happened to suffer from trauma, I'd have gone for ESTP. The thing is that ENTP makes ultimately the most sense.
> 
> Also, about him being a 'sociopath' at that point, I think that's diagnosing anti-social personality disorder very lightly. He was very clearly not a sociopath, but a character with a lot of emotional baggage he was not dealing with. Repressing your emotions is not the same thing as not having them.


I appreciate your Ti going to work so I'll counter
1. PTSD can affect all types
2. I've written throughout this thread as to why I saw Se. I'm an ENTP, and I didn't see Ne in the character. I related to Nick based on 7w8 3w2 9w8, though
3. Everyone has emotions. The intensity, duration, and diversity though varies among people. Sociopaths have repressed emotions caused by trauma. Psychopaths naturally have a shallow pool of emotions, from birth. People aren't robots, but someone with low emotions can appear that way to others. Besides, what would you call it when sociopaths are angry? Anger is an emotion.
4. The movie gave an unrealistic expectation, though. The "moral of the story" was written from a feeler's point of view.


----------



## sojinyura (Jun 21, 2015)

Drunk Parrot said:


> I appreciate your Ti going to work so I'll counter
> 1. PTSD can affect all types
> 2. I've written throughout this thread as to why I saw Se. I'm an ENTP, and I didn't see Ne in the character. I related to Nick based on 7w8 3w2 9w8, though
> 3. Everyone has emotions. The intensity, duration, and diversity though varies among people. Sociopaths have repressed emotions caused by trauma. Psychopaths naturally have a shallow pool of emotions, from birth. People aren't robots, but someone with low emotions can appear that way to others. Besides, what would you call it when sociopaths are angry? Anger is an emotion.
> 4. The movie gave an unrealistic expectation, though. The "moral of the story" was written from a feeler's point of view.


I'm aware PTSD can affect all types, I'm just pretty sure (from experience, which I think for MBTI it counts more than untested theory found online) that it tends to affect Si types more. However, I'll make sure to go back to reread your ESTP arguments tomorrow with more caution since you've already taken my opinion into account and still believe him to be an ESTP. Maybe there are things I haven't really considered which might make me change my POV and realize I was wrong. After all, you're an ENTP yourself. 

About point #3, thank you for correcting me there, you're totally right. (I still wouldn't go as far as to say he's a sociopath? But I'll accept him showing sociopathic tendencies. It's just, straight up sociopaths as lead characters in Disney movies... too surreal for me to conceive it that way, I guess, lol). 

And I completely agree with you, most movies tend to fall in the trap of not being able to explore the full potential of the message they're trying to convey due to sugar-coating, which results on the development of the characters being sugar-coated itself. Since this is a children's movie, it'll have to be forgiven.


----------



## Lord Fudgingsley (Mar 3, 2013)

sojinyura said:


> I'm aware PTSD can affect all types, I'm just pretty sure (from experience, which I think for MBTI it counts more than untested theory found online) that it tends to affect Si types more. However, I'll make sure to go back to reread your ESTP arguments tomorrow with more caution since you've already taken my opinion into account and still believe him to be an ESTP. Maybe there are things I haven't really considered which might make me change my POV and realize I was wrong. After all, you're an ENTP yourself.
> 
> About point #3, thank you for correcting me there, you're totally right. (I still wouldn't go as far as to say he's a sociopath? But I'll accept him showing sociopathic tendencies. It's just, straight up sociopaths as lead characters in Disney movies... too surreal for me to conceive it that way, I guess, lol).
> 
> And I completely agree with you, most movies tend to fall in the trap of not being able to explore the full potential of the message they're trying to convey due to sugar-coating, which results on the development of the characters being sugar-coated itself. Since this is a children's movie, it'll have to be forgiven.


All introverted functions value past precedent in some form or another. Generally people who get stuck in their ways are people who remove themselves from the world outside them and never pick up any new information, so they resort to the past because that's somewhere inside of them. When an individual feels like everything has been taken away from them, anyone can be broken. Hell, Judy was broken at one point in the film; she was merely saved by a sudden realization about the Night Howlers. Without that, she would've probably been living as a depressed bunny for the rest of her life.

Si values archetypes. It's a strange function, because I've come to understand it in two ways that I haven't really managed to link together. The one I definitely understand is that Si users have very strong, abstract impressions of things. As an Si valuer myself, I came to view Link from The Legend of Zelda as an idealism, partially because he is in the purest sense, a hero. In fact, when I was a child, I couldn't recognize a hero unless they resembled Link in some way; he was my understanding of a hero. 

Ultimately then, it could be said that there were very negative Si ideals within Zootopia, which Nick was a victim of. But I don't see any of this way of perceiving in Nick. The way he perceives the sensory world - it's not abstract to me.


----------



## Parrot (Feb 22, 2015)

sojinyura said:


> I'm aware PTSD can affect all types, I'm just pretty sure (from experience, which I think for MBTI it counts more than untested theory found online) that it tends to affect Si types more. However, I'll make sure to go back to reread your ESTP arguments tomorrow with more caution since you've already taken my opinion into account and still believe him to be an ESTP. Maybe there are things I haven't really considered which might make me change my POV and realize I was wrong. After all, you're an ENTP yourself.
> 
> About point #3, thank you for correcting me there, you're totally right. (I still wouldn't go as far as to say he's a sociopath? But I'll accept him showing sociopathic tendencies. It's just, straight up sociopaths as lead characters in Disney movies... too surreal for me to conceive it that way, I guess, lol).
> 
> And I completely agree with you, most movies tend to fall in the trap of not being able to explore the full potential of the message they're trying to convey due to sugar-coating, which results on the development of the characters being sugar-coated itself. Since this is a children's movie, it'll have to be forgiven.


I'd say the academic discussion of ASPD & PTSD is glossed over in the movie and is unrealistic. So I can say he's a sociopath, completely, but in the 2nd half of the movie magically changes.

Si types might have more cases of PTSD but that's because SJs are the most common types (40-45%). They could also probably be more aware of it as SPs might repress it, even if it affects their behavior.

TL;DR as far as ESTP, he was very observant of his surroundings, way better than an Ne dom often is.


----------



## Jambeet (Feb 4, 2015)

Nervermind i got the wrong post


----------



## aus2020 (Jun 29, 2011)

Originally, Disney wanted to have Nick Wilde as the main character. However, that was seen as too dystopian for an audience that would be more interested an animated movie that had a more optimistic tone. Having made $1.1 billion at the box office, has proved that their story formula for Zootopia, has been the correct call. Anyone can use a fist bump to connect with others, but in Zootopia, this is more of a direct reference to Obama, in terms of bringing people together for a common purpose. I wouldn't say that perceiving types are the only types that can show spontaneity. I think Judy's spontaneity and quick action is related to her being a high energy, extrovert. One of the most salient aspects of her being an NF idealist, is when she quits the police force after successfully solving the missing predators case. Neither Bellwether, nor Chief Bogo could understand why she would want to do so. As an NF idealist, by dividing prey and predators, she felt conflicted about contravening her main objective of making the world a better place through bringing diverse groups together. In the end, her determination and idealism won the day. Having a strong social ethos, Judy is the physical embodiment of the Zootopia motto, 'Anyone can be anything'.


----------



## Renny811 (May 18, 2015)

Intuitives have no idea what they are doing when it comes to typing fictional characters. You could show them a charcacter named Jack Savage, who leads a mercenary group, sleeps with all the women of the royal family, brutally murders his enemy and lets his men plunder a village, all while keeping a witty humor and charismatic smile and the Intuitives will be like. "ENTP"


----------



## Parrot (Feb 22, 2015)

Renny811 said:


> Intuitives have no idea what they are doing when it comes to typing fictional characters. You could show them a charcacter named Jack Savage, who leads a mercenary group, sleeps with all the women of the royal family, brutally murders his enemy and lets his men plunder a village, all while keeping a witty humor and charismatic smile and the Intuitives will be like. "ENTP"


Cool bud. How bout instead of sweeping generalizations, admit that some intuitives do that, but not all. While we're at it, I'll be critical of SPs. SPs are often completely clueless as they aren't even aware that intuition is a thing. ESPs, in particular, just assume everyone is sensory too, not like they could even define it.

If we're done with the criticism, I'll say that Nick Wilde is an ESTP, not an ENTP. AND I liked him a lot and found him to be quite intelligent. Despite such "obvious" ENTP qualities, I'll, again, say he's an ESTP. You happy? Because I said that from the beginning


----------



## metagination (Aug 21, 2016)

My opinions:

Judy- INFJ. She's almost always typed as an ENFJ, and I can see why. She does seem very social and extraverted at times. My reasoning for INFJ is because she seems to have a high Ti. If you remember the scene where she had to give a speech in front of the press, she simply read what was given to her and when Nick asked her, she said: "I was just stating the facts." This is a very un-ENFJ like trait, and is more of an INFJ trait when their tertiary Ti kicks in. Of course, I am aware this is not exactly solid evidence, but I somehow just know she is an INFJ without being able to further explain it (damn Ni). If you have another opinion, it's fine. This is just my perception.

Nick- ENTP. Reading the thread, this type was never questioned until someone brought up ESTP? I recall someone saying that just because a character is interesting doesn't mean they are an N type. Well, the same works vice versa. There are a lot of interesting S characters, it just happens that Nick isn't one, which I will explain based on the inferior function. ESTPs have inf-Ni, while ENTPs have inf-Si. I could explain based on the dominant function, but seeing as how people have already done that and Se and Ne can seem really similar on the surface, I'm taking a different approach. 

Why Nick doesn't have inf-Ni: Se-doms tend to be very impulsive due to their inf-Ni (unrelated sidenote: but Se-inf tend to be even more impulsive when in the grip). They're usually the ones who dive head first into things, often due to a thirst for adventure. However, if you remember Zootopia, it's usually Judy who dives head first into things and Nick warning her against it (Due to Judy's Se, whether inferior or tertiary). It just doesn't see very ESTP to me, and not only did Nick warn her against doing impulsive things once, but multiple times. If it were just once, I could still consider it as an ESTP having an inf-Ni moment...

why Nick has inf-Si: His hold on the past was clear when he told Judy his backstory, and why he acts how he does. ESTPs, of course, can also have a hold on the past. The difference is, I think if they wanted to move on, ESTPs could move on and let their past go easily enough. I think Nick wanted to/tried to, but because his cynicism, couldn't really. IF you think about it, his past strongly defines his actions and personality, whether unconsciously or consciously. Again, this is NOT to say ESTPs aren't defined by their past either. They just have an easier time letting it go, unlike ENxPs. 

Yeah, so this is why I think Nick is an ENTP, not an ESTP. But, if anyone happens to present to me a more logical option with a solid explanation, then I will change my opinion. And as another sidenote... can we please stop both the N and S bias? Just because someone think someone is an N type, doesn't mean they are biased against s types and vice versa. It's their personal understanding, so if you disagree, just state why. It's up to them after that to agree or disagree with you. It's like when people manipulate the types of characters to fill on 16 types in a "Which Character Are YOU? MBTI Style." post :')


----------



## inmymind (Feb 15, 2016)

GlobeGirl said:


> Aloha World,
> 
> I thought it would be fun to type some of the characters.I think I have our two main guys with the right types
> *Judy Hopps (Bunny)- ENFJ*, and* Nick Wilde (Fox)-ENTP*.
> Anyways was anyone else able to distinguish any personality types?


I must say I thoroughly enjoyed it too. It's something I could watch again someday. I told my INFJ daughter that Hopps was an INFJ. But, I can see where she could be an ENFJ.


----------



## Snowflake Minuet (Feb 20, 2016)

YAYYY!! (I love this movie):happy:

Judy Hopps ~ definitely ENFJ, not anywhere near being an introvert! And I would love it if she were an INFJ, to have the same type, haha
Nick Wilde ~ definitely ENTP


----------



## aus2020 (Jun 29, 2011)

I have to agree with Drunk Parrot's view of Nick having both ESTP and ENTP characteristics. He's got the risk taking, wheeler dealer mentality of an ESTP, combined with the open-mindedness and sarcasm of an ENTP. If he was portrayed as a stereotypical ESTP 7w8, I don't think he would be as interesting or colourful a character as he is.

I don't think Judy is an introvert either. She speaks and communicates what's on her mind, with a high degree of clarity and expressiveness, to the extent of sometimes overexplaining. Snowball, in 'The Secret Life of Pets' could be an INFJ.


----------



## Wolf (Mar 20, 2016)

I really enjoyed this movie! I would definitely watch it again in the future.

I agree that Nick is some sort of ExTP, he has the wit of an ENTP and the attitude of an ESTP IMO.

I'm a little less sure about Judy, but I can understand the consensus around her usage of Fe.


----------



## aus2020 (Jun 29, 2011)

In terms of Judy's enneagram type, her storyline is that of the social 1 perspective. For type 3, success is determined by society's definition of success, whereas type 1 success is more related to improving the world. In the beginning, Judy says she wants to be the first bunny police officer, to make the world a better place, much to the horror of her parents. 1's can pursue ethical objectives, in the face of overwhelming opposition, an important feature of type 1 storylines.

When Judy first speaks to Clawhauser, she counsels him on appropriate behaviour, a 1 not 3 characteristic. Judy does appear 3 like, when she initially issues parking tickets. However, she is just reacting to Chief Bogo, by trying to show him that she's not just another token bunny.

After she solves the missing mammal's case, rather than revel in her success, she decides to quit, being disappointed at the consequences of her actions. 1's can be much harder on themselves than they are on others. 1's are often seen as idealistic, vs 3 being pragmatic. 

Judy's final inspirational speech, imploring others to make the world a better place, is also type 1.


----------



## AliceKettle (Feb 2, 2014)

I'm a 21 year old ISFP, and I've seen this movie several times, while babysitting my one year old cousin who is obsessed with it, particularly with the Shakira song called "Try Everything." It actually is quite an enjoyable movie, and that's quite rare for me to say when a film doesn't have a romance of some kind between the main characters because I'm such a hopeless romantic. Well, I guess you could say that there was some romantic tension between Judy and Nick if you squint close enough. Overall, they seemed to have more of a platonic sort of attraction to each other than a romantic one. It actually was a complex movie about never giving up on your dreams, friendship, and the dangers of racism. It was a really cute and intelligent movie.

*Types for Major Characters of Zootopia*
Judy Hopps- INFJ or ENFJ. Leaning towards INFJ because while she is superficially outgoing and gets along with everyone, she only is ever seen close to one or two friends and family. Her primary relationships in the film are with three other animals, her parents and Nick. ENFJs would more often have a wider circle of people they are close to. Plus, she doesn't listen to her parents when they tell her to not dream so big by becoming a cop. An Fe-dom would be way more conflicted about disappointing or scaring their parents by not living up to their expectations 
Nick Wilde- ENTP because there was a moment in the film where he opens up to Judy about his childhood, and they show a flashback to it in a moment where he's being mocked and rejected by a Wild Scout group of "prey" animals because he was the only predator as a fox to try and join. He then went on to say that ever since that day he decided to play the public role of "sly fox" that he believed most of the other animals expected him to be, and became a con artist. That seems like tertiary-inferior Fe-Si. Also, when he was first introduced in the film he makes a bunch of negative assumptions about Judy, how much he thinks Zootopia sucks, and how everyone's dreams rarely ever come true because they couldn't get past the stereotyping of animals. I guess, he's most likely an ENTP with unhealthy Ne-dom who starts out being introduced in the film trapped in an Ne-Fe loop. Becoming close friends with Judy, and ultimately becoming her partner makes him
realize that she's better than a "dumb bunny" meter maid, and that he's better than just a "sly fox" because she believed in him.


----------



## aus2020 (Jun 29, 2011)

I don't see Judy as an introvert, due to her expressiveness, spontaneity, etc. She's also put more of her energy into her career, rather than accumulating friends. Fe dominant types are not always in agreement with parental views. I think her pioneering, pathfinder spirit has more to do with being enneagram 1.


----------



## bmuddy120 (Dec 2, 2017)

This is an old thread but I think things have leveled out since the film came out so I'll share my opinion here. In my opinion Judy Hopps is a clear ENFP, she wanted to be a police officer because it was her dream and she saw the possibility to do so no matter what, despite society saying she can't and she believed she could do it the whole way and ignored society values and followed her own inner values, Ne and Fi. Once she got there she was still underestimated and then saw the possibility to prove herself to the chief with her Ne and chased the weasel despite orders not to do so because she felt it was the right thing to do at the time, Fi in her and because she saw the chance and didn't want the possibility to slip away from her to explain Ne again. She was very spontaneous when she jumped straight into action and danger without following orders again, an ENFJ would usually never do this unless absolutely had too, they usually care about rules similar to SJs even if not as much as them. ENFPs however follow their heart and jump at chance spontaneously when they see it like she did. She caught the weasel and then got scolded for it, still got another chance and then went on the quests with Nick Wilde, an obvious ENTP. She bounced off ideas and sweet talked Nick while trying to get him to work with her and she came up with the howling idea to help them get past wolves on her own, which was another major Ne moment for Judy Hopps.


----------

