# i feel so completely out of the loop



## Modal Soul (Jun 16, 2013)

not in terms of gossip, but in general

i feel like i'm on a completely different wavelength than the people around me. not in a good way and not in a "i'm a special snowflake" sort of way either, but in a way where i don't think i'm capable of connecting with very many people? it's very rare that i do and even when i do, i find maintaining those friendships and relationships really difficult. it always gets to a point where we have a lot of misunderstandings, disagreements, and arguments and i can't even say what about because it varies from relationship to relationship. i'm not pinning all the blame on them, nor am i pinning it all on myself... i just don't know why this happens. i've thought about it time and time again and i think of ways to prevent it and i tell myself i'm going to change the way i do/say certain things to prevent conflict but it's hard. for example: a few hours ago, a girl on this forum was, what i felt, rude to me because of a disagreement we had on another thread (an opinion-based disagreement, not a heated personal argument). to me, it has always seemed like she's rude to me because i'm new to the forum (she's fairly new as well) so it's easier to argue with me because i don't have seniority/i don't have close relations with anyone. i called her out on it and a swarm of people got on my case about it and told me i was taking things too far/i was taking it personally when i shouldn't be but even after a decent number of people disagreed with my take on what she said, i still believed i was right and i got angry when the girl reacted calmly because i just... didn't believe it. i didn't believe she was reacting that way because she wanted to diffuse the situation. there have been way too many instances where she's went off on me for holding a certain opinion, only to agree with someone else who states the exact same opinion later on. i didn't call her out on it in the past because i didn't want to jump to any conclusions but i always kept it in the back of my head.

i was talking to my friend about it and the conversation went something like this:

i briefly explained the situation to him
*him:* "don't underestimate idiots when they come in numbers"
*me:* "how do i know for sure they're idiots? that's what i'm confused about. how do i know it's not me? i have confidence in myself but if i'm the only one who sees a fleck of credibility in what i say then how credible is it really?"
*him:* "you create your own reality. you seem to have some sort of inclination to feel this way... until you again have a change of heart then... be honest with yourself and be humble... if you feel this way then you know why."

and what he typed is exactly what i feel. sometimes i'll look back and regret something i've said/done but when i really think about the situation itself and the context, circumstances surrounding it, etc, the regret i feel fades away because i know i did it for a reason and once i remember that reason, i regain confidence in the decision i made to say/do something. 

i'm not the victim. had i just called her out and left it there then maybe, but i didn't do that. i made sure she knew what i was thinking and i even got aggressive at one point (made a joke or two at her expense) so, to most people, i'm the bad guy. i was pissed off, yeah, but i honestly didn't want to hurt her, that wasn't my original intention, but after everything that's happened i couldn't contain myself.

the reason i brought this up is because this happens a lot. not the calling out/getting aggressive/arguing aspect of it, but me perceiving something in a way no one else perceives it. it was crystal clear to me that this was happening but i was the only one who saw it, evidently. it makes sense because no one else is going to pay as much attention as i will... because it doesn't directly affect them, i get that, but it has me wondering how valid my perceptions are.

it sucks and i'm tearing up thinking about it because it just frustrates me so much how i can never EVER prove it. it's always things i feel, my interpretations of things, things i pick up that aren't outright stated (tone, etc), it's never something i can just _show_ people. sometimes i think of just letting it go because hey none of us are gonna be here in 100 years so where's the point in getting angry, but being talked down to is so demoralising. sometimes it just really hurts.


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## The Hungry One (Jan 26, 2011)

I used to feel the same way. I felt I was broken and I couldn't connect with others like a "normal" person. 

I think you feel this way because your personality type is rarer and it is hard to find people who think the same way. Perhaps you are an INFP or an INFJ so connecting really is harder.

But I've also realized that relationships are inherently awkward. Everyone is awkward. Some people are better at not over-thinking things, they assume the best of others, and they accept that because we cannot read each other's minds, relationships are a constant communication struggle. Some people ignore the awkwardness and power through it, and that's why they seem so cool. But the awkwardness is still there. Everyone knows it. 

As for the forum argument situation, the assumption that she is talking down to you because you are both new is not one that many people would find convincing, simply because it really isn't something that happens, in my opinion. Perhaps if you provided the example, we could judge if it were true. 

I think if you can't prove a thing, you _should _doubt your own feelings because feelings are fickle chemical reactions, people do not have ESP, and only facts are constant. I don't want to be harsh, but if there's something really there, I don't think you would be the only one to notice it. I don't mean to demoralize you; I think this may help because I used to trust my gut instinct until I found I was wrong over and over again.

I used to accuse my friends of being uncaring or liars (really awful in hindsight, and just untrue) because I felt I could sense something in them, but really I just had trust issues. 

It's important to give other people the benefit of the doubt.


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## VinnieBob (Mar 24, 2014)

are you NT?
I just don't connect with people either and I'm 52, at some point in my life I should have connected with a few 
the only connections I experienced was with fictional characters[ any herman hesse novel or Sartre's novels] and a few dead philosophers


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## Modal Soul (Jun 16, 2013)

vinniebob said:


> are you NT?
> I just don't connect with people either and I'm 52, at some point in my life I should have connected with a few
> the only connections I experienced was with fictional characters[ any herman hesse novel or Sartre's novels] and a few dead philosophers


i'm not sure of my type actually
i read (half of) steppenwolf a few summers ago and i love sartre's work (i even made a thread about his novel 'nausea' a few weeks back). i relate to sartre and his views very strongly. the same goes for albert camus.



@_The Hungry One_ hmm maybe i didn't explain it properly. i was very vague
what i meant to say was, whenever i have an opinion, she will argue it to the ends of the earth. however, if an older member with seniority argues the same opinion as me, she'll agree wholeheartedly. this exact situation has played out 2-3 times and she often puts words in my mouth to better get her point across in arguments, and then i have to argue, not my point, but that i didn't say what she thinks i said. that's when someone else will swoop in and agree with me, and the girl will follow suit

what happened was i posted on a relationship advice/gossip thread about how an ex hacked into my skype account to readd/unblock himself, so he could send me messages. my post was no more than a sentence long, just a throwaway comment, but a few girls asked me questions so i answered them (did you block him? who's the guy? did you change your pw?). i answered "yes i blocked him, same guy from before, yes i changed my pw" and i made it pretty clear i wasn't seeking advice because the situation was over and dealt with, but she swooped in and said "delete him and stop talking to him. if u want him to go away, make him go away." which i found unnecessary and condescending because it's not as if i was sitting around complaining or whining? i literally just posted a comment in passing because i was shocked that someone could do that

this particular thread is one where girls post about their issues/problems and forum members give them advice (girls try to help by sugarcoating/being agreeable whereas the guys post witty and punny one-liners then leave) and the situations these girls get themselves into is insane. the girl i have a problem with is usually very... she beats around the bush a lot and rarely ever gives straightforward advice and when she finds herself in a less than unpleasant situation with a guy, she handles it horribly, so to have her give me advice (when i didn't ask for advice/it was clear the situation was resolved quickly) and to be so condescending about it seemed personal and uncalled for. maybe i'm wrong, i honestly don't know. it just doesn't make sense for her to act that way, and it was posted right after we debated over an issue on another thread (where she made absolutely terrible arguments and frequently missed the point)

i asked a mutual friend for her input on the matter so i could see the situation through the eyes of an unbiased spectator and she said it was similar to this:






but that i may have taken things a little too far, which i agree with and have admitted to already, i think.

yeah, it is definitely important to give other people the benefit of the doubt. i find there are many times where i do, but also many times where i don't. i'm with you on a lot of what you've said. i'm disappointed in myself for being hung up on it but there's just so much conflict, not just in the conflict itself but in own understanding of the situation vs. the understand of others'. how can they be so radically different? this isn't the first time this has happened either and looking back to the other time i can recall this happening, i still feel i was in the right. i just have a horrible way of going about dealing with people like that, in that i'm blunt and have no mercy, so it makes me appear irrational when i'm not (usually...). when i make assertions about a person's intentions with such strong conviction, i am not saying i'm always right but a _lot_ of thought will have gone into it so it's rarely a spur of the moment judgment, if that makes sense? and that was the case with her. it just sort of built up over a period of time until i just snapped (i was calm at first, but later on i made a few too many ill-mannered jokes). and not that it's relevant but it's usually ExFJs. i think that's why so many people disagree with my POV. the people i find myself in these situations with are usually very influential, good with people, charming, etc, so they have an upper-hand in conflict situations and people are more likely to believe them/take their word for something than they are mine. or maybe that's not the case at all. gaaah i honestly don't know, so judge away

in the case of my friends, i've said and done some stupid things that i regret; had i given them the benefit of the doubt they could've been avoided x_x being paranoid and skeptical to an unhealthy degree isn't good. i need to work on it for sure but it seems the older i get, the harder it becomes. it's weird because, as well as being skeptical and ruthless, i'm also very forgiving and sometimes even naive. i've had my naivety pointed out to me more times than i can count. not stupid or ignorant, just overtly idealistic. i think trust issues are a huge factor here, too. 

yeah, i guess it would make sense to doubt my feelings every once in a while but doubting them, even when no one sees eye to eye with me, doesn't sit well with me. i always thought that was a good thing but i guess every good/positive trait has bad/negative aspects to it, as nothing in this world can be inherently good or bad because everything is a double-edged sword. it's hard because i know deep down that i'm certain of something and that i'm in the right for thinking/feeling that way, but i can't... explain why. i have to think about it and think long and hard to ascertain anything. this is going to sound ridiculous but when i doubt my feelings/thoughts in favour of others, even though i strongly believe i am right, i feel like i'm stabbing myself in the back? maybe it's also because i don't like feeling vulnerable/weak


edit: people are still making comments on what happened, hours later. mostly comments at my expense but when i reply calmly to explain why something was said/why it was said/etc, i get shit for "continuing to bring it up" (even though i've done nothing but reply normally to comments people have directed towards me, countless comments and me replying occasionally to _other people bringing it up_ =/= me bringing it up). when i ignore them, which is what i've been doing since before i made this thread, it seems to give people an excuse to make even more comments. hopefully i don't get myself into a situation like this again. so nerve-racking


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## 66393 (Oct 17, 2013)

Modal Soul said:


> not in terms of gossip, but in general
> 
> i feel like i'm on a completely different wavelength than the people around me. not in a good way and not in a "i'm a special snowflake" sort of way either, but in a way where i don't think i'm capable of connecting with very many people? it's very rare that i do and even when i do, i find maintaining those friendships and relationships really difficult. it always gets to a point where we have a lot of misunderstandings, disagreements, and arguments and i can't even say what about because it varies from relationship to relationship. i'm not pinning all the blame on them, nor am i pinning it all on myself... i just don't know why this happens. i've thought about it time and time again and i think of ways to prevent it and i tell myself i'm going to change the way i do/say certain things to prevent conflict but it's hard. for example: a few hours ago, a girl on this forum was, what i felt, rude to me because of a disagreement we had on another thread (an opinion-based disagreement, not a heated personal argument). to me, it has always seemed like she's rude to me because i'm new to the forum (she's fairly new as well) so it's easier to argue with me because i don't have seniority/i don't have close relations with anyone. i called her out on it and a swarm of people got on my case about it and told me i was taking things too far/i was taking it personally when i shouldn't be but even after a decent number of people disagreed with my take on what she said, i still believed i was right and i got angry when the girl reacted calmly because i just... didn't believe it. i didn't believe she was reacting that way because she wanted to diffuse the situation. there have been way too many instances where she's went off on me for holding a certain opinion, only to agree with someone else who states the exact same opinion later on. i didn't call her out on it in the past because i didn't want to jump to any conclusions but i always kept it in the back of my head.


The people who got on your case over a web-forum incident are just taking the moral high ground because it gives them power over you. Were they actually appalled by what you did? Probably not. 




> i briefly explained the situation to him
> *him:* "don't underestimate idiots when they come in numbers"
> *me:* "how do i know for sure they're idiots? that's what i'm confused about. how do i know it's not me? i have confidence in myself but if i'm the only one who sees a fleck of credibility in what i say then how credible is it really?"
> *him:* "you create your own reality. you seem to have some sort of inclination to feel this way... until you again have a change of heart then... be honest with yourself and be humble... if you feel this way then you know why."
> ...


You and your friend both had interesting takes on credibility. You have to remember, holding the minority belief doesn't make the majority correct; it just puts you in the minority. Often the minority gets harassed by the majority simply because of the number differences. Until recently homosexuals were persecuted and ostracized, and in some places, met with death. Only in the past 50 or so years have the prevailing majority started to realize that it is reprehensible to commit hate crimes against people due to their sexuality. But for thousands of years this was the majority belief though. Were they right. Nah, again, just the majority. 



> i'm not the victim. had i just called her out and left it there then maybe, but i didn't do that. i made sure she knew what i was thinking and i even got aggressive at one point (made a joke or two at her expense) so, to most people, i'm the bad guy. i was pissed off, yeah, but i honestly didn't want to hurt her, that wasn't my original intention, but after everything that's happened i couldn't contain myself.


I'm probably a bad person to give advice about this because almost all of my jokes are at another's expense of happiness. 



> the reason i brought this up is because this happens a lot. not the calling out/getting aggressive/arguing aspect of it, but me perceiving something in a way no one else perceives it. it was crystal clear to me that this was happening but i was the only one who saw it, evidently. it makes sense because no one else is going to pay as much attention as i will... because it doesn't directly affect them, i get that, but it has me wondering how valid my perceptions are.


Trust me, this is a gift temporarily masquerading as a curse. Just wait until it unveils itself. Do you have a low self-esteem? Be honest. 



> it sucks and i'm tearing up thinking about it because it just frustrates me so much how i can never EVER prove it. it's always things i feel, my interpretations of things, things i pick up that aren't outright stated (tone, etc), it's never something i can just _show_ people. sometimes i think of just letting it go because hey none of us are gonna be here in 100 years so where's the point in getting angry, but being talked down to is so demoralising. sometimes it just really hurts.


:'( For some reason your last sentence struck a nerve (or 4). I started tearing up too. I'd be happy to listen to you if you ever wanted to talk.

Sorry, I couldn't help but analyze your type while reading your post. Are you an INFJ? There's so many fucking mistyped INFJ's on this site, but you seem genuine. Anyways, take it easy on yourself, Seba Jun.


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## VinnieBob (Mar 24, 2014)

Modal Soul said:


> i'm not sure of my type actually
> i read (half of) steppenwolf a few summers ago and i love sartre's work (i even made a thread about his novel 'nausea' a few weeks back). i relate to sartre and his views very strongly. the same goes for albert camus.
> 
> 
> ...



break off all contact and avoid this person 
I dated some one quite similar 20 years ago and for 5 years after our split I was still hearing stories about her
she also came from a very dysfunctional family and was one fucked up [evil] chiq, she would say ''you know, you're a asshole'' and I reply ''yea I know''
her - you are
me- I heard you and I agree, you just want to argue
her- no I don't
me- so it's agreed I'm a asshole
her with a very frusterated frown on her face
some people just love drama and I refuse to participate in the future just agree with what ever they say
this works very well


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## xraydav (Jan 3, 2013)

I actually feel the same way. However, I don't know why that is so troubling, I see it as a gift; if you're different from others it's most likely that you have different strengths and weaknesses. 

Basic biology states that variation increases survival in a group; if there weren't one or two people in a group who felt they weren't on the same wavelength we would not be the species we are today. Every nobel prize winner, author, revolutionary and artist were on a different wavelength in some way. 

Also, if you think that no one else perceives things in the way you perceive it; that's also a perception of yours that you really need to question as well. I think you have self-esteem issues (especially because you asserted you wanted to 'change', while most personal growth comes from acceptance, not just changing things we say or do) and a lot of self-esteem issues come from some sort of fallacies in the way we approach situations and people. I think the issue here is that you have already come to the conclusion... and you've already made your mind up. You think that others see things completely differently to how you see things. Not to be condescending, but thinking like this can actually alienate people close to you even where there are genuine similarities between you and another. So by thinking of your perceptions as more and more different, you become more and more unrelatable to the people around you, and end up getting into arguments and angering people and yourself. 

I feel like these issues generally come from when you develop experiences where you cut off from other people; especially in childhood; how you ever felt like that before? I think, instead of thinking that this is a normal part of living, you end up looking further and further into yourself and past experiences, that you keep looking and theorizing that there is something wrong inside you that drives others away; there is no such thing, so you keep theorizing and asking more questions. 

One of the best pieces of advice I learned about self-efficacy is that you must understand what roles you are playing in situations; like organizing for a dinner party, one prepares the desert, another organizes party tricks, another calls the people, the other sends the mail. All these things must happen for the party to be a success; by examining your faults, you prevent yourself from moving forward, and moving on with your life. 

Anger, misunderstandings are all secondary sources to the primary sources of fear and insecurity; once you resolve fear, anger subsides, and it takes some bravery to imagine all the contexts and possibilities of past regrets and come to terms with it as you did . and like anger was resolved through that, you could also prevent misunderstandings with others, if you see the larger context of how looking deeply into your own faults, and how this can end up being a never ending and self-defeating process.


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## The Hungry One (Jan 26, 2011)

Wow that's tough. I don't know. I don't think most people think about things as thoroughly as you do, which may be the discrepancy. You seem like someone who puts a lot of thought into every action, but I think most people kind of just do things. Do you agree the conversation was like the Key and Peele video?


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## Modal Soul (Jun 16, 2013)

@_coy_ in terms of the moral high ground, people are still giving me a hell of a lot of flack for it so i think you're right. this is a forum where people make fun of each other for being orphans + they'll ask each other to kill themselves so idk how moral or ethical any of them are. i like the way you phrased that

yeah, i'm aware of that but that's where things get a little iffy. is my opinion minority opinion because i'm seeing something other people aren't, or is my opinion minority opinion because i'm wrong? i honestly can't tell you because this is a forum where people will just agree with whoever they like more/whoever has been around the longest. i stand firmly what i said about her being unnecessarily condescending (and giving unnecessary advice), though, and i know it was only given out of bitter resentment for something else. on one hand, she was trying to "diffuse the situation" but on the other, her and the forum members kept making jokes concerning things i said to her (i.e. she'd make a joke about something i said to her) which confused me because they were two contradictory actions

yeah, i do have a low self-esteem. i don't think it's incredibly low, though, but it is really inconsistent which shows just unhealthy it can be. it's something i'm working on. progress isn't coming as fast as i'd like it to but i'm hopefully, at the very least, heading towards the right direction

i've considered INFJ but i've considered many types so i'm not sure!

and you are a sweetheart, fellow nujabes fan



@_AverOblivious_ i don't mean it's a bad thing in and of itself but the situations it gets me in/i get myself in makes me feel that it has just a strong a negative side as it does a positive side

yes, i do and have struggled with my self-esteem in the past and present, but me coming to that conclusion wasn't an impulse deduction i made because of one situation. i've thought about this a fair bit and i have come to terms with and accepted many "flaws" i ahve i have so acceptance isn't the issue. when i said i'll change the way i do/say certain things, it's in direct reference to the flaws i want to improve/work on, it's not a matter of me changing who i am entirely to appease others, it's a matter of me improving who i am to make life easier and more enjoyable for myself. it's just much better for me in the long run, you know what i mean?



AverOblivious said:


> I think the issue here is that you have already come to the conclusion... and you've already made your mind up. You think that others see things completely differently to how you see things. Not to be condescending, but thinking like this can actually alienate people close to you even where there are genuine similarities between you and another. So by thinking of your perceptions as more and more different, you become more and more unrelatable to the people around you, and end up getting into arguments and angering people and yourself.


this is difficult because i don't want to agree with anything i know 100% not to be true, but i also don't want to disregard anything just because it makes me uncomfortable ~*~*~self reflection~*~*~

i read your response earlier today and actually thought about it in class because of it's relevancy to the situation. i wanted to really think about whether or not what you said resonated with me before typing up a reply. also because it's something i've thought about time and time again. it's like a textbook "which came first -the chicken or the egg?" scenario. did it start off with me actually being different and, as a result, being alienated, or with me thinking i was different and, as a result, alienating myself? i honestly don't know but it doesn't matter because regardless of where it began, it's snowballed into whatever... this... is and that's no good. i'm pretty good at finding similarities between myself and others as i'm actually good with people, but there are definitely times where i struggle to. i've been at workplaces and on soccer teams where i just sort of kept to myself because i retreated into my shell without finding common ground with the other girls and relating. it wasn't that i thought i was better or that they were inferior or the other way around, i just couldn't... fucking do it, i don't know why. at this one workplace i couldn't because it seemed all they ever spoke about was partying and strip clubs and i'm just there like, "damn, i'm not a fan of any of this." 



AverOblivious said:


> I feel like these issues generally come from when you develop experiences where you cut off from other people; especially in childhood; how you ever felt like that before? I think, instead of thinking that this is a normal part of living, you end up looking further and further into yourself and past experiences, that you keep looking and theorizing that there is something wrong inside you that drives others away; there is no such thing, so you keep theorizing and asking more questions.


so, to answer your above question, i've definitely felt like that. it's a mindfuck, honestly. it's probably a result of self-deprecating introspection. how is it that it feels so right, though? i'm actually surprised by how spot on that is



AverOblivious said:


> One of the best pieces of advice I learned about self-efficacy is that you must understand what roles you are playing in situations; like organizing for a dinner party, one prepares the desert, another organizes party tricks, another calls the people, the other sends the mail. All these things must happen for the party to be a success; by examining your faults, you prevent yourself from moving forward, and moving on with your life.


either that metaphor went completely over my head or it's not actually related to the sentence following it, in which case it makes perfect sense. i don't see a correlation between the two. explain pls!! maybe i'm right and i do get it and i'm just over-thinking it

haha yea dude i feel that. examining faults has its good sides, though. if it weren't for me looking into myself to find a solution to a problem, even if that probably _is_ me, then i wouldn't be the person i am today. it sucks, though, because it makes accentuating the positive aspects of my personality almost impossible because i put myself under the impression i don't have any. i was doing an enneagram questionnaire a while back and when asked how others perceive me, i struggled to think of positive traits. that's mostly because people rarely list my positive traits, but always list my negative traits in arguments



AverOblivious said:


> Anger, misunderstandings are all secondary sources to the primary sources of fear and insecurity; once you resolve fear, anger subsides, and it takes some bravery to imagine all the contexts and possibilities of past regrets and come to terms with it as you did . and like anger was resolved through that, you could also prevent misunderstandings with others, if you see the larger context of how looking deeply into your own faults, and how this can end up being a never ending and self-defeating process.


which enneagram type(s) struggle with fear and insecurity? finding out my enneagram may be an eye-opening experience in itself

hmmm

anger is an issue. it's never physical, but it's still pretty bad. i actually resort to anger more than i do sadness which is why, even when i'm being attacked, i rarely come off as a victim. my immediate response is to stand up for myself and make it known that i don't appreciate what was said/done. sometimes i don't and this is when i'm in a really vulnerable state/situation but, even then, it's rare that people will perceive me as a victim. it's always made me kind of sad how people rarely stand up for me, even when i've done nothing to deserve what was done to me. that's been an issue in some of my past friendships/relationships. i don't expect anyone to fight all my battles but if someone is blatantly hurting me, why don't those who claim to care about me/like me a great deal stand up for me? it hurts, man, it hurts a lot. in the past, i've always kind of chalked it up to them not liking me very much/thinking very highly of me but i don't know

but yeah, i don't know why i'm so angry. it can't just be because of fear and insecurities. anger and conflict make me really, really uncomfortable so why am i always in the midst of it? fuck  because 90% of the time i'm actually a very pleasant person to be around but when i'm not, i'm really not - does that make sense? even when i'm quiet and withdrawn, i'm still not... a bad or unpleasant person, just a quiet and withdrawn version of myself.


update: some girl on the forum was making rude comments towards me but i put no weight on what she said and ignored them with general ease, and i'm pretty proud of myself for it. even very small progress is progress


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## Modal Soul (Jun 16, 2013)

vinniebob said:


> break off all contact and avoid this person
> I dated some one quite similar 20 years ago and for 5 years after our split I was still hearing stories about her
> she also came from a very dysfunctional family and was one fucked up [evil] chiq, she would say ''you know, you're a asshole'' and I reply ''yea I know''
> her - you are
> ...


haha well this isn't really like my situation

i can see the similarities (i think?) but it's different because i do not have constant contact with her as we are not friends, we just frequent the same forum. i didn't avoid her in the past because, like i said, i didn't want to jump to conclusions but when the same situation began to repeat itself over and over, i called her out on it and things blew up. her comments are more so passive aggressive/general condescending comments than they are blatant attacks on my character like that. i'm thinking of whether the comment about people loving drama applies to her because i can't quite tell with her, to be honest. maybe she does, maybe she doesn't; it could go either way




The Hungry One said:


> Wow that's tough. I don't know. I don't think most people think about things as thoroughly as you do, which may be the discrepancy. You seem like someone who puts a lot of thought into every action, but I think most people kind of just do things. Do you agree the conversation was like the Key and Peele video?


that... could very well be it, actually. i didn't really think people just said and did things without at least thinking about it for a bit. i've obviously done it before (spoken/acted without thinking) but it was always, or at least usually, when i've been really stressed/pushed to that point

that's a good question. uhhh i don't know. i stand firmly by what i said about her comment holding negative connotations but i know and admit i could've handled the situation a lot better. i really could have and that's what bothers me most about it. i could've avoided these repercussions (people avoiding me, people being rude to me, etc) if i had gone about it differently. it just sucks because if i even try to call a person out for being rude - even if they are being exceptionally mean/malicious - they can just take a quick jab at me about the argument with the girl. my self-preservation instincts are on high

but i still can't say for sure whether our conversation panned out like the one between key and peele in the video


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## xisnotx (Mar 20, 2014)

you've stumbled upon what i feel is a new phenomenon in human interaction...and i don't know what else to tell you. that anger you feel...it has led to boys shooting people, to boys killing themselves, to girls cutting themselves, to violence and extremism, racism and bigotry and hate speech. it's not just you...people online have made me not like people in general anymore whereas before, i genuinely liked most people i met. and i still do...but i know that the hatred online is spewed by someone, so i'm now more cautious of people. you never know who is who anymore. i feel like some people are more sensitive to the cutting words and it makes the online environment for those people chaotic and hurtful. whereas in real life, people are generally decent. i feel like there are people that are decent because that is the standard, and others that are decent because that's who they actually are. some people's standards of decency drop if that standard is removed, as it is online. others are decent in all situations...or try to be.

even you friend's comments get to me. he's calling people he doesn't know "idiotic" and even that is too harsh. everyone has some value..well, i operate with that assumption, even though it's gotten harder to do so over the years. i fully follow the maxim that you don't say anything online that you wouldn't say in real life. not many do.

what i can say is that if you stoop down and join their fight, it'll still make you feel bad...even if you do win. honestly, the best thing that has worked for me is to simply...stop participating in online discourse unless i'm mentally prepared for it.


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## xraydav (Jan 3, 2013)

> @_coy_ in terms of the moral high ground, people are still giving me a hell of a lot of flack for it so i think you're right. this is a forum where people make fun of each other for being orphans + they'll ask each other to kill themselves so idk how moral or ethical any of them are. i like the way you phrased that


I actually think the whole world is like that. I mean, there are sites that promote murder, and comments that rally for it. 



> this is difficult because i don't want to agree with anything i know 100% not to be true, but i also don't want to disregard anything just because it makes me uncomfortable ~*~*~self reflection~*~*~


Then aren't you disregarding the idea that there may be "nothing flawed about you", just because it makes you less comfortable? Not searching for flaws inherent in who you are, doesn't mean you're believing something that is 100% untrue, just as searching for flaws is not necessarily 100% true either. To be honest, I don't think anything in this world is 100% true, everything is a result of perceptions; some interpretations allow you to grow, and others will always hold you down; they're both definitely true, and whether or not we can tolerate them boils down to whether or not where ready to stop telling ourselves that a perception fits neatly into one box and not the other. 



> it's like a textbook "which came first -the chicken or the egg?" scenario. did it start off with me actually being different and, as a result, being alienated, or with me thinking i was different and, as a result, alienating myself? i honestly don't know but it doesn't matter because regardless of where it began, it's snowballed into whatever...


I think every individual is inherently different and unique, and that any individual can start of thinking they're different or not different. They're just labels, they don't help most of the time. 



> either that metaphor went completely over my head or it's not actually related to the sentence following it, in which case it makes perfect sense. i don't see a correlation between the two. explain pls!! maybe i'm right and i do get it and i'm just over-thinking it


Wow you really analyze things; but it's simple, by examining and searching for either faults or fixes, you end up just not committing to the dinner party - being too preoccupied and not contributing to your own goals, success or growth.



> haha yea dude i feel that. examining faults has its good sides, though. if it weren't for me looking into myself to find a solution to a problem, even if that probably _is_ me, then i wouldn't be the person i am today.


To me, this doesn't sound too useful; i mean you said yourself that it leads to the idea that you have no positive aspects, then why are you holding on to it? What are it's good sides? 



> that's mostly because people rarely list my positive traits, but always list my negative traits in arguments


When it comes to arguments, people are inclined to only list negative traits. It's human nature. 



> which enneagram type(s) struggle with fear and insecurity? finding out my enneagram may be an eye-opening experience in itself
> 
> hmmm


I think this is a perception thing as well, just like MBTI; only you can truly type yourself. I could type you as a type four for what you're presenting like the issues with identity and character, but really it's up to you. Because I think the real problem here is the constant searching, rather than anything being wrong with you. I'm sure if anyone were to analyze as much as you do yourself, they would find goldmines of flaws and differences. 



> anger is an issue. it's never physical, but it's still pretty bad. i actually resort to anger more than i do sadness which is why, even when i'm being attacked, i rarely come off as a victim. my immediate response is to stand up for myself and make it known that i don't appreciate what was said/done. sometimes i don't and this is when i'm in a really vulnerable state/situation but, even then, it's rare that people will perceive me as a victim. it's always made me kind of sad how people rarely stand up for me, even when i've done nothing to deserve what was done to me. that's been an issue in some of my past friendships/relationships. i don't expect anyone to fight all my battles but if someone is blatantly hurting me, why don't those who claim to care about me/like me a great deal stand up for me? it hurts, man, it hurts a lot. in the past, i've always kind of chalked it up to them not liking me very much/thinking very highly of me but i don't know


But then you don't think highly of them either (for not thinking highly of you), so in the end, is it true that you won't stand up for them either. In which case, they wouldn't stand up for you. 



> but yeah, i don't know why i'm so angry. it can't just be because of fear and insecurities. anger and conflict make me really, really uncomfortable so why am i always in the midst of it? fuck  because 90% of the time i'm actually a very pleasant person to be around but when i'm not, i'm really not - does that make sense? even when i'm quiet and withdrawn, i'm still not... a bad or unpleasant person, just a quiet and withdrawn version of myself.


Well, yeah it sucks to be in situations that make you uncomfortable and especially arguments, but that's no reason you won't get into one in the future either; mainly because emotions and individual perspectives are unique to a person, and when two people with such unique perspectives and experiences are placed in a room, misunderstanding is bound to happen; you can't fully change yourself or others, you can only change your approach.


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## Modal Soul (Jun 16, 2013)

@_xisnotx_ i feel like a lot of that is common knowledge, though. people aren't as "ballsy" in real life as they are on the internet. i think verbal aggression is accentuated online, not just because of the anonymity/safety behind the computer screen, but because it's void of physical aggression... so, in a way, you need to compensate by being more harsh with your words? if that makes sense.


@_AverOblivious_ to be honest, none of this sounds helpful or constructive anymore (and i'm questioning whether it ever was). purely destructive. on one hand, you're coming at me for focusing on my flaws and saying it's unhealthy and absurd of me to do so to the extent that i supposedly do, then listing my flaws and never missing an opportunity to accentuate them. what you're saying now is contradicting what you said before. i feel like you're disagreeing with me just to disagree with me.

i tried to see things from your point of view but now you're being exactly what you're attacking me for being and that, i don't agree with at all. it's either stating the obvious, or a contradiction of a prior statement you made, or just a general negative comment. you're making someone who already feels like shit feel like shit (well, upon your evaluation of said person), for feeling like shit, then making them feel even more like shit.

correct me if i'm wrong but if you do, please do it in a way that isn't so nitpicky and hurtful


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## xraydav (Jan 3, 2013)

> @_AverOblivious_ to be honest, none of this sounds helpful or constructive anymore (and i'm questioning whether it ever was). purely destructive. on one hand, you're coming at me for focusing on my flaws and saying it's unhealthy and absurd of me to do so to the extent that i supposedly do, then listing my flaws and never missing an opportunity to accentuate them. what you're saying now is contradicting what you said before. i feel like you're disagreeing with me just to disagree with me.
> 
> i tried to see things from your point of view but now you're being exactly what you're attacking me for being and that, i don't agree with at all. it's either stating the obvious, or a contradiction of a prior statement you made, or just a general negative comment. you're making someone who already feels like shit feel like shit (well, upon your evaluation of said person), for feeling like shit, then making them feel even more like shit.
> 
> correct me if i'm wrong but if you do, please do it in a way that isn't so nitpicky and hurtful


Rereading over my previous post, maybe I seemed a bit harsh (happens sometimes). Though, I do try to not to contradict myself, I apologize if I came off as harsh by tone. I have a bit of clinical depression, and that leads to 'scathing' tone to come off at times, so maybe that was it and I wasn't feeling to good when i posted the second one. 

Also, I think it's best not to think in such black and white terms. I'm not intending to attack you or make you feel like 'shit' or anything. I think that comes from what type of thinking you try to practice; and in my second post, I was simply providing other ways you could have approached each of the problems you were having (which sorta sounds like contradiction - but then recommendations/solutions to problems will always contradict the problem). 
The contradiction is why I stated that you need to change your approach before you try to analyze any part of yourself as inferior. 

I actually don't want to correct you at all, because you are not wrong. I think you're a really deep and sophisticated person, and your writing shows that you are definitely on a higher level artistically and there is nothing wrong with a person like that. I'm just saying there are ways to treat yourself better.


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## Eudaimonia (Sep 24, 2013)

sounds like Ne-Fi to me... not saying I'm right... just sounds like it


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## Shale (Jan 17, 2012)

Not one person in life or on this forum has walked in your shoes or can see through your lens. Your opinions are simply your opinions and they make you the person you are. As a 40 year old I can relate to what you have said when I was in my 20s. Looking back, I notice that those who are firm in their opinions (as strange as they may be) become a target to the masses. Why? You aren't a follower, you are a "trouble-maker", you don't fit in their social hierarchy, you are exhibiting confidence in yourself, etc. You are always on the outside looking in. It can be a lonely position when you are surrounded by people who don't share your attributes, but don't let them tear you down. Don't give them the satisfaction.

My advice is to be patient. Life changes and people change. Many people change their requirements for friendships as they get older, probably out of experience of being burned. My requirements of friendships now? Put in some effort and respect my boundaries (which includes my opinions on matters.) We TALK about politics, religion and all the "OMG YER NOT SUPPOSED TO TALK ABOUT THOSE THINGS" topics. The difference is that we are expressing our own opinions on the matter and not making anyone to believe they are inferior b/c of their opinion. It's a learning lesson on what makes people tick, and to me it's fascinating.

Don't be so hard on yourself. "When you are truly genuine, there will invariably be people who won't accept you. And in that case, you must be your own badass self, without apology." ~Katie Goodman


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## adamstone1 (Sep 17, 2014)

wow.....this really is troubling you.i am sorry that i haven't bothered to read through it all ,but i think i get a rough idea of what you are going through.what i would recommend to you is,forget the arguments and try to view the situation objectively.maybe things aren't exactly how they seem to be.maybe its all a misunderstanding.Try to understand her point of view.You know exactly how terrible text messages are ,when it comes to communication.If you really want to understand the situation ,i think the best advice i can give you is -talk to her.but please note that by talking i mean, 
'do not confront her but rather befriend her' . 

Do not take this the wrong way ,but i get the feeling that you overreact.i think it is perfectly justified in this scenario but you probably should reflect upon it sometime or the other.


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