# The more I search, the more unsure I am



## Elaminopy (Jun 29, 2011)

Okay, in true Elaminopy/Idec fashion, I've done my tallying. I went to any thread in any forum in which someone suggested a type for me and tallied it up. I only counted one type for each person. If someone was unsure or changed their mind, I only counted what they changed it to. Example, Technical on INTPc typed me as INFP, then later Estelore typed me as INFJ and Technical agreed that INFJ was more accurate, so I put INFJ for Technical. Here is the list:

User..................Type..Dom..Aux..Ter..Inf
Idec Sdawkminn...INTP..Ti.....Ne....Si....Fe
Estelore.............INFJ....Ni.....Fe....Ti...Se
Technical...........INFJ....Ni.....Fe....Ti...Se
stuck.................ENTP..Ne....Ti.....Fe..Si
OrangeAppled......ISTP...Ti.....Se....Ni...Fe
Onceajoan..........ISTP...Ti.....Se....Ni...Fe
RelfecTcelfeR......ISTP...Ti.....Se....Ni...Fe
Wonkavision........ISTP...Ti.....Se....Ni...Fe
Havane..............ISxP....Xi.....Se....Ni...Xe
JustHer..............ISTx...........Ti/Si.......Se/Te
SuchIrony..........ISTx...........Ti/Si.......Se/Te
stalemate...........xSxx..........Se/Si
Aleksei...............ISTP...Ti.....Se.....Ni...Fe
Anamalech..........IxFJ....Xi.....Fe.....Ti...Xe
Quiet.................IxTP...Ti.....Xe.....Xi...Fe
vel....................INFJ....Ni.....Fe.....Ti...Se
pc3000..............INFJ....Ni.....Fe.....Ti...Se
Savage Idealist...ESTP...Se....Ti......Fe..Ni
King-Of-Despair...ISTP...Ti.....Se.....Ni...Fe
Paradigm............ENTP..Ne.....Ti.....Fe...Si
thunder..............xSFP...........Fi/Se......Te/Ni
BearRight............INxP...Xi......Ne....Ti...Xe
Magic Mirror........ENTP..Ne.....Ti......Fe..Si
Vicky Jo.............ISFP...Fi......Se.....Ni...Te
Eric B................ISTP...Ti......Se.....Ni...Fe
RyRyMini.............Ti..............Ti

As you can see, some people only gave parts, such as RyRyMini. Since I assumed Ti would most likely be either dom or aux, I put it on aux to give less weight to it. For people like thunder who gave "x" in the I/E or J/P spot, I did a similar thing where I put what could possibly be in the dom spot and gave them the weight of the aux spot, then put what could possibly be in the aux spot and gave them the weight of the inf.

I then applied 4 points to dom, 3 to aux, 2 to ter, and 1 to inf. All counted up, these are the final figures:

Ti - 69
Se - 43
Ni - 36
Fe - 32
Ne - 18
Si - 14
Fi - 7
Te - 4

So, using this, I listed all the types and their 4 conscious functions. I then multiplied 4x the corresponding number of that types's dominant function, 3x the number for their auxiliary, etc., and added them up so ISTP, for example, got 4x69 + 3x43 + 2x36 + 32 = 509 and ISTJ got 4x14 + 3x4 + 2x7 + 18 = 100.

Here is that list:

ISTP - Ti Se Ni Fe 509
ESTP - Se Ti Fe Ni	479
INFJ - Ni Fe Ti Se	421
ENFJ - Fe Ni Se Ti	391
INTP - Ti Ne Si Fe	390
ENTP - Ne Ti Fe Si	357
ISFJ - Si Fe Ti Ne	308
ESFJ - Fe Si Ne Ti	275
ESFP - Se Fi Te Ni	237
ISFP - Fi Se Ni Te	233
ENTJ - Te Ni Se Fi	217
INTJ - Ni Te Fi Se	213
ENFP - Ne Fi Te Si	115
INFP - Fi Ne Si Te	114
ESTJ - Te Si Ne Fi	101
ISTJ - Si Te Fi Ne	100

So, assuming 509 is the highest and therefore 100%, the following list shows the % of each of the types:

ISTP - 100
ESTP - 94
INFJ - 83
ENFJ - 77
INTP - 77
ENTP - 70
ISFJ - 61
ESFJ - 54
ESFP - 48
ISFP - 47
ENTJ - 44
INTJ - 43
ENFP - 23
INFP - 22
ESTJ - 20
ISTJ - 20

Don't let his discourage you from reading the post before this or watching the videos.


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## alionsroar (Jun 5, 2010)

Well... I no longer think you are an INFJ. But that's not very helpful, since I don't know what I think you are.

If you had to order the descriptions of Te/Ti, Fe/Fi, Se/Si, Ne/Ni on Understanding the MBTI Test by how much they seem like you, what would the order be?

Or if you look at the functions on each of the type profiles at TypeLogic Home Page and give a point to each function description that may describe you, which functions get the bigger score?


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## Elaminopy (Jun 29, 2011)

On the first link I relate to more:

Ti than Te
Fe than Fi
With the N and S, I could relate to both e and i equally. It was difficult to pick.

On the second link:

It's also difficult to pick. I suppose I'm worried about picking one and eliminating the other in the event that I really do use the other and just don't realize it.


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## beth x (Mar 4, 2010)

Wow...there is so much info here. I have gone through a 3rd....ha. What I sense is that you are dripping with Si and you use Fi. I think this would indicate ISTJ. It doesn't seem to be what you identify with though. I have noticed from various INTPs around that they tend to score higher on Si when they are stressed. It could be that you are INTP also....but the Fi seems to be apparent to me.....if you are a Fe user at all it's definitely not in 1st or second position...which rules out INFJ (extremely unlikely I would think). I'm saturated with info here....I know you definitely aren't INTJ...it indicates Ti. Since ISTPs use Se I would rather tip over to the side of INTP or ISTJ. INTP being most likely. I haven't even looked at Ni/Ne. These are my preliminary thoughts before wading through the lot.


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## Elaminopy (Jun 29, 2011)

bethdeth said:


> Wow...there is so much info here. I have gone through a 3rd....ha. What I sense is that you are dripping with Si and you use Fi. I think this would indicate ISTJ. It doesn't seem to be what you identify with though. I have noticed from various INTPs around that they tend to score higher on Si when they are stressed. It could be that you are INTP also....but the Fi seems to be apparent to me.....if you are a Fe user at all it's definitely not in 1st or second position...which rules out INFJ (extremely unlikely I would think). I'm saturated with info here....I know you definitely aren't INTJ...it indicates Ti. Since ISTPs use Se I would rather tip over to the side of INTP or ISTJ. INTP being most likely. I haven't even looked at Ni/Ne. These are my preliminary thoughts before wading through the lot.


I wonder how much infomercials cost to make and air...


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## Nico1e (Jul 27, 2011)

In socionics, the ISTP functions are different than they are in the American system:

SiTeNiFe NeFiSeTi

There is a mistake in the functions for introverts in the American system, which doesn't occur in the socionic system. For some reason, the American system puts a judging function first for perceivers, and they have the opposite 'direction,' as in extroverted or introverted, than they should. It might have even been from a typo in a book years and years ago, for all I know. An ISTP shouldn't be TiSeNiFe, they should be SiTeNiFe.


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## Elaminopy (Jun 29, 2011)

But I can understand why the switch. In Socionics, the P/J indicates which is dominant. In MBTI it indicates which is extraverted. Whichever is extraverted determines the person's attitude moreso than what function is dominant, so an ENTJ and INTJ will be closer in attitude than an ENTJ and INTP. In Socionics, the ENTj and INTp would share the same extraverted judging function and thus be closer in attitude than ENTj and INTj, but the letters don't make it apparent.


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## beth x (Mar 4, 2010)

Nico1e said:


> In socionics, the ISTP functions are different than they are in the American system:
> 
> SiTeNiFe NeFiSeTi
> 
> There is a mistake in the functions for introverts in the American system, which doesn't occur in the socionic system. For some reason, the American system puts a judging function first for perceivers, and they have the opposite 'direction,' as in extroverted or introverted, than they should. It might have even been from a typo in a book years and years ago, for all I know. An ISTP shouldn't be TiSeNiFe, they should be SiTeNiFe.


I would tend to go for ISTP if that were the case. It fits better just by looking at the preferences he uses when talking.


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## Nico1e (Jul 27, 2011)

Elaminopy said:


> But I can understand why the switch. In Socionics, the P/J indicates which is dominant. In MBTI it indicates which is extraverted. Whichever is extraverted determines the person's attitude moreso than what function is dominant, so an ENTJ and INTJ will be closer in attitude than an ENTJ and INTP. In Socionics, the ENTj and INTp would share the same extraverted judging function and thus be closer in attitude than ENTj and INTj, but the letters don't make it apparent.


Yes, and I'm still trying to understand the rationale for how they do it in MBTI, because it's been a while since I read about it. 

In socionics, for an ISTP, it's like this:

Si: your base function, the one that you choose to verbalize the most about
Te: another one that you verbalize, but not as strong
Ni
Fe
Ne
Fi
Se: the 'ignoring function.' You're good at doing this when you have to, but you don't like to focus on it for long periods of time, and it causes feelings of boredom, irritation, and the feeling that 'I already know how to do this' or 'I could do this if I had to, but I don't want to.' You tend to ignore this information.
Ti: the 'demonstrative function.' It is just as strong as your base function, Si, and you're very good at it. However (according to the socionics model), you don't worship this function or verbalize it as much, but it's in the background, supporting whatever your base function is doing. You view this function as sort of inferior to Te - you say things like 'Well, real life doesn't always fit into neat logical categories,' and instead you prefer to use facts about 'what works and what doesn't (Te).

I'm going to try to learn how the two different systems (socionics and MBTI) fit together and/or contradict each other...


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## Elaminopy (Jun 29, 2011)

@bethdeth regarding Ni/Ne, wouldn't "dripping with Si" indicate Ne? Also, you mention you see Fi, but then I can't possibly be INTJ because of Ti, meaning I must have Ti because INTJs use Te. Fi and Te or Fe and Ti. One or the other, man. So, since they both seem as likely as each other and "dripping with Si" sounds more dominant than not, order of likelyhood is:

1. Si Fe Ti Ne ISFJ
or Si Te Fi Ne ISTJ

2. Fe Si Ne Ti ESFJ
or Te Si Ne Fi ESTJ

3. Fi Ne Si Te INFP
or Ti Ne Si Fe INTP

I look forward to your Ni/Ne assessment regardless. How do I do with the apparently infamous INTJ "Ni speak"? According to the people responding to HarpFluffy, it is rather easy to tell if someone "gets" it or not.


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## beth x (Mar 4, 2010)

Elaminopy said:


> @bethdeth regarding Ni/Ne, wouldn't "dripping with Si" indicate Ne? Also, you mention you see Fi, but then I can't possibly be INTJ because of Ti, meaning I must have Ti because INTJs use Te. Fi and Te or Fe and Ti. One or the other, man. So, since they both seem as likely as each other and "dripping with Si" sounds more dominant than not, order of likelyhood is:
> 
> 1. Si Fe Ti Ne ISFJ
> or Si Te Fi Ne ISTJ
> ...


OK so...I will be saying we a lot here about INTJs....I am specifically talking about myself though. Since I have been on this forum over a year I can say we can actually include at least some other INTJs from the many threads I have perused there sometimes is a general consensus. Keep this in mind.:wink:

I have difficulty in actually explaining Ni....it's my dominant function it's like trying to explain what the box looks from the an observer's perspective whilst being in the damn box....phooey. I can talk about Ni-Te pairing as second prize and describe the way I think by waffling in a lengthy way....hopefully you will follow the gist of what's happening here. I can tell that your skills in swallowing large amounts of details is far superior to mine already.

The Ni thing...whether someone "gets" the jumps in convo and joins in the jumping, making connections and adding to the initial idea until we have all gleaned the "gist". We all _add_ something into it which builds the concept. When someone doesn't add to the concept but instead scratches their head and says something like "hang on, I'm a different INTJ, you are all just being too serious about this, and really cruel" it seems apparent they aren't following the stream of what we are all adding to. Ni combined with Te isn't looking at anything from a place of feeling....it's usually unanimous in that respect. That we come from a place of neutrality and the information is more important than how we feel (emotions) about it. Value judgements are usually avoided by INTJs from what I can see. The people that make the value judgements in there are more likely to be other types....only they can't see it.....they can't see the humour and they can't understand why we are all being "so mean", "so serious". We aren't being either so it's clear that they can't be using Ni like us...specifically Ni Te pairing. 

It was obvious through Ni humour in the INTJ section. Typically it's an immediate response where you can carry a discourse with someone and hold the jumping from one point to another without stopping to ponder what the hell the other person is on about. It was easy with HarpF because he couldn't see any humour in the forum. If you were to think that the INTJs were "always serious" in there. It isn't easy to ponder on what type he is. I still can't ascertain that for sure. It is easy to see over a period of months what he wasn't Ni dominant. I can usually tell whether someone has got "the gist" of what I've said by their response rather than what they have initially said to me. It's more about the responses.

I can tell you don't have this pairing because The detailed accounts here drive me fricken _crazy_. I read a little, got stumped went back, pushed forth got mad, pushed it away, went back again and pushed forth into a video, watched a 3rd of it saw the detailed description and tangents of your early childhood accounts going back and forth....got a headache, sobbed and stopped. Of course I'm embellishing but it tells me one or two things. A you're either not INTJ or you are a crazy INTJ in panic mode just before you go to withdraw for some padded cell alone time. :laughing: We don't think so detailed. It hurted my head trying to be their in your head. <------This is humour BTW any other INTJ could see it was a piss take of myself but other types might take it as taking the piss out of other types. (there's the difference). This is why I think Ti not Te. Ni and Te are bare bones compared to your thought process. *oh mummy*

It's true I didn't go too far into listening about everything because it hurt my head....we ascertained this little INTJ cannot deal with overload details wise....as I chip away further it might become more apparent to me and I will have an "aha" moment and wipe everything and start afresh. If this post keeps going to infinity it's because I'm aware you can deal with it and it's helping me process by waffling as I go.

The Si: The Si isn't thought out by me in any detail....it's a rough sketch...I may be wrong. I saw how you were "remembering" your grandfather's farm (something like that) [see how INTJs only get the idea not the detail]. It seemed as if you were taken back there and actually describing it when you were there. Remembering details from taking yourself back there.....Se is my last function I got no fucking clue where I am how I keep myself from banging into poles....I have memories sure but they have no emotion attached and I can't take myself back there.....it _*looked*_ as if you could. Se is taken for granted by me and it's one thing that I think probably a lot of INTJs might have difficulty in saying exactly what's happening with it....we aren't swallowed by senses....we get overloaded by too much sensory input...especially noise.

The Fi thing: I got the feeling *snerk* that you were using Fi instead of Fe because you seemed to not want to change others to suit yourself. People with Fe as their dominant or auxiliary tend to just bloody well want things the way they _"should" _ be...not the way they are. I am not overly sure if it is Fe in inferior or Fi anywhere else. Keep in mind that my Fi is is tertiary and I got not much of an idea about how to deal with those little buggers if they get out of hand. You seemed to be the type that can sit and describe feelings without having to hold onto to someone whilst doing it. It just seems Fi or Fe in the inferior position.....if I looked further I might be able to glean more but as I said...it hurts my head. :blushed:

I hope this helps.


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## Elaminopy (Jun 29, 2011)

I'll give a proper reply when I'm at work and I'm not wasting the precious few hours I have with my wife with my son in bed, but regarding this


> If this post keeps going to infinity it's because I'm aware you can deal with it


 honestly you could have posted 10 times as much and I'd be okay with it. I kinda wish it was longer.


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## Elaminopy (Jun 29, 2011)

lol, so I post ONE thing in the ISTP thread "when I was a kid" and immediately get an ISTP saying:


> Are you sure about being ISTP? Look at how long your post is compared to the others. I'm not saying you're not an ISTP, but it's rather unusual for an ISTP.
> Reading manuals? Maybe you want to take another test. This one got me right while many others came out INTP.
> 
> But what I really wanted to say is:
> Welcome!


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## Elaminopy (Jun 29, 2011)

bethdeth said:


> I can tell that your skills in swallowing large amounts of details is far superior to mine already.


Are you basing this off of how many details are in my posts? I think this would indicate my skills in recalling large amounts of details, which is different from swallowing them. I may have difficulty swallowing, but once I do, I can easily regurgitate them. Gross. Or have you seen me swallowing a large amount of semen--er, details as well? Okay, this is gross. My stupid mind.



> The Ni thing...whether someone "gets" the jumps in convo and joins in the jumping, making connections and adding to the initial idea until we have all gleaned the "gist". We all _add_ something into it which builds the concept. When someone doesn't add to the concept but instead scratches their head and says something like "hang on, I'm a different INTJ, you are all just being too serious about this, and really cruel" it seems apparent they aren't following the stream of what we are all adding to.


This is what I picked up from reading the few INTJ threads. Everything's an inside joke. Everyone's in on it. It's like everyone has already experienced everything together and they're just talking about it after the fact. It's exactly how my 5 siblings and I were all growing up.



> Ni combined with Te isn't looking at anything from a place of feeling....it's usually unanimous in that respect. That we come from a place of neutrality and the information is more important than how we feel (emotions) about it. Value judgements are usually avoided by INTJs from what I can see. The people that make the value judgements in there are more likely to be other types....only they can't see it.....they can't see the humour and they can't understand why we are all being "so mean", "so serious". We aren't being either so it's clear that they can't be using Ni like us...specifically Ni Te pairing.


I can see how it could be taken as mean or serious. I personally read it and thought it was awesome. I mean, the initial reply from antiant kinda irked me because I took it as she basically saying I don't belong just because I'm not the same type, but now that I know about HarpFluffy, it makes sense that she was making a sarcastic Ni joke and then the other comments after that made sense. I probably would have gotten it right off the bat had I known there was someone whom y'all considered probably ISTP who thought they were INTJ. But I can't have Ni if I use Si so easily, so I don't know.



> It was obvious through Ni humour in the INTJ section. Typically it's an immediate response where you can carry a discourse with someone and hold the jumping from one point to another without stopping to ponder what the hell the other person is on about. It was easy with HarpF because he couldn't see any humour in the forum. If you were to think that the INTJs were "always serious" in there. It isn't easy to ponder on what type he is. I still can't ascertain that for sure. It is easy to see over a period of months what he wasn't Ni dominant. I can usually tell whether someone has got "the gist" of what I've said by their response rather than what they have initially said to me. It's more about the responses.


I find that I can get it, but rather than just laughing to myself and adding to it, I'd probably laugh at how awesome all the add-ons are and say you guys were great. By joining in I'd kinda feel like I was some guy that one of the group invited along and like I was talking about stuff as if I had been there and everyone would be looking at me like "who are you? You weren't there. GTFO." This is probably my Fe telling me this.



> I can tell you don't have this pairing because the detailed accounts here drive me fricken _crazy_. I read a little, got stumped went back, pushed forth got mad, pushed it away, went back again and pushed forth into a video, watched a 3rd of it saw the detailed description and tangents of your early childhood accounts going back and forth....got a headache, sobbed and stopped.


Sorry. This reminds me of (probably Si doing this) when I was asking my family at my parents' house to describe a cup. Later back at my house, without the cup, I described the cup from my memory of looking at it in a forum post. Here's that:

It's pink. About 4 inches tall. Narrower at the bottom with a gradual widening toward the top and then a flare out at the top. The bottom, I would guess, is maybe 1 1/2 inches in diameter and the top is about 2 1/2 inches. There are vertical leaf-shaped groups of raised lines, about half an inch in width and 3 inches long all the way around it, about 1/4 inch apart. The flare at the top has little 1/4 inch raised vertical lines above the leaf shapes. The bottom of the cup has a small ring at the bottom like cups do. Probably 1/2 inches in diameter. In the middle of that is a very small raised dot, but curved, not pointy like some of my cups have. The flare at the top has a slightly thicker lip at the end and the whole cup is very thin. Maybe 1 or 2 millimeters thick.

See, I can describe all that fine, but I would get tired listening to or reading someone else describe that. They are boring details. I don't like when stories describe things that way most of the time. I like more the way I do in my stories I've written. This is taken from my latest one:



> Jaic then turned and there stood, albeit hunched over, a very old woman who appeared very old. Her old, wrinkled face had old, wrinkled skin covering it with a creased fold for every wrinkle. Her large nose stuck out from her face and sported a lump halfway where it suddenly bent downward, reminiscent of Jaic's mom's. Her old, stringy, light gray hair hung low from under her old, dark, oversized hat that sat lazily upon her head and rose high to a point that had long since collapsed sideways under its own miniscule weight from age. The old woman's dress, decorated with prints of flowers trying their hardest to convey that they once possessed vibrant colors, was old, faded, blackened and hid all but her once shiny, black shoes. Her old, wrinkled, pale hands, the paper-thin skin no longer able to conceal the bulging, blue veins and the contours of the shaky bones within, contrasted sharply with the dark dress. This must be the substitute teacher, Jaic guessed.





> It hurted my head trying to be their in your head. <------This is humour BTW any other INTJ could see it was a piss take of myself but other types might take it as taking the piss out of other types. (there's the difference). This is why I think Ti not Te. Ni and Te are bare bones compared to your thought process. *oh mummy*


I didn't really see it as humorous, but I took it as a piss take of yourself. How would that be a piss take of me? You already said before that my ability to take in details was superior to yours. Naturally being in my head and taking in the amount of detail I do would give you a headache. I don't see how that could be something bad about me.



> It's true I didn't go too far into listening about everything because it hurt my head....we ascertained this little INTJ cannot deal with overload details wise....as I chip away further it might become more apparent to me and I will have an "aha" moment and wipe everything and start afresh.


Sounds good. I look forward to this.



> If this post keeps going to infinity it's because I'm aware you can deal with it and it's helping me process by waffling as I go.


Whatever helps.



> The Si: The Si isn't thought out by me in any detail....it's a rough sketch...I may be wrong. I saw how you were "remembering" your grandfather's farm (something like that) [see how INTJs only get the idea not the detail]. It seemed as if you were taken back there and actually describing it when you were there. Remembering details from taking yourself back there.....Se is my last function I got no fucking clue where I am how I keep myself from banging into poles....I have memories sure but they have no emotion attached and I can't take myself back there.....it _*looked*_ as if you could. Se is taken for granted by me and it's one thing that I think probably a lot of INTJs might have difficulty in saying exactly what's happening with it....we aren't swallowed by senses....we get overloaded by too much sensory input...especially noise.


I'm not really understanding this. You talk about Si, then throw Se in there as if it's the same thing. Sure I can recall details, but I also hardly ever run into anything and I run up and down stairs 2 at a time and walk along 4-inch wide things of wood that border the walkway near my apartment each day without falling. That sounds like Se. So am I adept at Si and Se together? How does that work?

Not sure about the Fi/Fe either.


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## beth x (Mar 4, 2010)

From my personal experience and gut feeling you are probably INTP after reading responses.....like I said in the first place. Ne seems to be the function you use because you can glean intuitively from that video thread what was happening quite clearly. You can see both sides of the "humour" the gaps that INTJs have (the unawareness that -- shit that might be hurting other's feelings... but it's the truth so why not just say it to stop further embarrassments?--)


I'll explain how I use personal experience and the gut feeling and the interaction here to describe how I see the way the interaction between ISTP and INTP so you can pick up however you want. 


I have an INTP daughter and mother. The "feeling" I intuit is that you are like them in a sense as I get the same chatty vibe that they have like they "get" most of what I'm banging on about but then they get excited about something and tell me the details in their earnest way as they go and I glaze over. I have a power relationship with my daughter so therefore I can say...errrr what's the point you are trying to make--skip to the result and I can ask questions ---without her thinking I'm just trying to take over the entire conversation. With my mother I distract myself by interjecting with quips that we both laugh at. I really have gone to the toilet and she has followed me there because she is keen on telling me all about something --whilst I have been in there with the far away look trying to block it all out because I have already intuited what she said from the very first sentence, got it, then intuitively jumped to the next stage of convo whilst she is fluffing out the gaps with details. That's the Ni I guess where as her Ti wants it all there to beholden. It's her fulfilment to say it all. That's the best and worst part about these interactions. She gets everything but she wants to reply with everything whilst I am left floundering trying to take everything in. The Ti > Ne pairing. 

I have an ISTP friend who will talk for hours on the phone. I like talking to him and having the friendship so I "put up" with the long calls. Instead of conversing with them in the way I described above I will actually just distract myself whilst on the phone to him....honestly I could put the phone down go make a cup of hot chocolate, go to the toilet and he will still be talking about something incoherent that I am likely to glean in the next sentence. I don't mind you. I simply put him on speaker phone and go make dinner or whatever I'm doing and it's like he is just sitting in the room. There is a lot of overlap in the way they communicate. Their humour is cruder and there is often a time when I will reply with something sarcastic but he thinks my sarcasm is me being defensive or upset. He baits me (the bastard) and thinks it's funny that I reply that way *rolls eyes*. I try to explain (damn him) that I am utilising sarcasm but never the twain shall meet...I just let him believe that I'm more flighty than he thinks and prone to emotionality...it's insulting but fricken easier than trying to explain sarcasm...har! He is incredibly insightful though...he uses something I can't pit my finger on....I think this might be the Ti > Se pairing. 

I have little understanding Se. You will notice how little I can intuitively talk about it because I have no fricken idea what I'm talking about if I am to talk about it...it just is, and not the way I roll....so others will be left floundering wondering what I am talking about...because I don't. :tongue: 

That is how I get Ne from you^. You can get the gist from an intuitive perspective and keep up in certain ways. You can also identify the weaker spots as can the INTP members of my family.....you are more for filling the gaps rather than skipping the gaps too....Ti.

The Ni Ne however I have a more intuitive grasp to mold it into something else that can be put forward from my perspective. 

Si and Se....I know what they are. I know how they work, but to understand how to incorporate them intuitively into speech as a fully grasped concept? :mellow:

I do get more of Fe from you now rather than Fi but as I said before it isn't dominant or auxiliary because you aren't asking for special considerations for your feelings. You aren't asking for things to be changed around to suit how you feel about things. That is my take on Fe how it interacts with me on a personal level. It leaves me a little drained and wondering WTF that person really wants. Personally I find that people who use this function as dom or aux to be selfish and draining as I can't for the life of me accept what they are giving in the first place.....that's my Fi in the tertiary position not wanting a huge display of emotion. It's all really bloody uncomfortable. If I can't accept what they have to offer then how can I give back and not feel drained. It's not that I see these people as selfish per se it the reaction from me, how I perceive and cannot reciprocate which is the problem. My father is ESFJ...no...just no...GTFO. I have memories of him picking me up and just smothering me as a toddler....leave me alone FFS...cannot, reciprocate, breathe even...my god. Why does he need so much tangible fucking evidence of care in the form of touch? *sobs* Yeah...I don't get that vibe off you at all....I can see that you are caring and feeling in an extroverted way and that you do have some of that need from what you were saying about your wife and son but nowhere near that level. ISTJ is ruled out now for sure because of that. They have Fi in exactly the same position as INTJ and would react in the same way to all that smothering as I would....gerrrrorf! Fi is more about internal values, getting it right rather than reaching out for validation. I got from the music that you got for your wife that it may have been Fi....but now I see that you were all about getting the response from her....looking forward to her face lighting up rather than just getting it right and leaving it at that. There is just a subtle difference.

INTP FTW! They are my thoughts....I'm still going through the process myself on how I get this myself.....since you understand Ni speak on the levels that matter....it's handy.


EDIT: I had a little aha moment...... lorrrrrd have mercy! The thing I think you might be stuck on with the "feeling" aspect that I saw earlier in the thread. you said something like --I guess the first thing I do when I'm approaching something is how I _*feel*_ about it--. You are using feeling in the way that I would use feeling....it's _*knowing*_ or_* intuiting*_ not exactly feeling in the emotional sense. I guess it's pretty apparent to everyone now but it gave me the idea that is why people have thought perhaps you might be INFP or ISFJ....the way you say feeling is not feeling....it's intuiting. It has become more and more apparent to me....intuiting is more your bag.


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## antiant (Jul 4, 2010)

@Elaminopy - http://personalitycafe.com/intj-forum-scientists/57117-never-ending-saga-intjs-trolls.html#post1375909, explains the situation you had with me. It's very easy to find out who the Ni users are (specifically INTJ), or what people are 'all about' in general. Hope that gives some insight. Good luck with finding out your type.


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## Elaminopy (Jun 29, 2011)

antiant said:


> @Elaminopy - http://personalitycafe.com/intj-forum-scientists/57117-never-ending-saga-intjs-trolls.html#post1375909, explains the situation you had with me. It's very easy to find out who the Ni users are (specifically INTJ), or what people are 'all about' in general. Hope that gives some insight. Good luck with finding out your type.


Wow, antiant went out of her way just to visit my thread. You must like me. (not sarcasm) I find one problem I have besides people not getting my sarcasm is that I'll say things and really mean it, but it could definitely sound sarcastic and it's hard to convince people I'm being serious.



RSTaylor said:


> *An INTJ might like you if:*
> They're ignoring you on purpose. I can't tell this.
> *They're noticing your existence.*
> They criticize you a little too much. Not unless you criticizing me for being in the INTJ SPECIFIC thread counts.
> ...


So, that's 5 things.

And on the other thing, what patterns, cues, behaviors, etc. did you see when you tested things and pulled strings with me?


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## Elaminopy (Jun 29, 2011)

@bethdeth, thanks for all that. It was really helpful. One thing I'm curious about is how you determine I'm INTP rather than ENTP. Explain in detail please.


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## beth x (Mar 4, 2010)

LOL @ you for wanting details from an INTJ. I can give you a detailed account of how I got there....but it's waffling on and on for me.....and really showing the way that INTJs think is more smoke and mirrors. I suppose it does give you more of a feel that you really aren't INTJ though.


I say INTP instead of ENTP because Si seems too high to be in the inferior position. Similarly Fe seems too low to be in tertiary position. The first thing I said was Si instead of Se. The reasoning was because it reminded me of my daughter after a bad day telling me detailed account after detailed account of something I would scratch my head and say.....errrr why are you telling me this again? I get the same feeling with you. When INTPs are in stress mode they show more Si. It's the classic Ti/Si loop. The daughter gets ISTJ as her type when she is stressed out....I wonder if you were stressed by making the first video?

The ENTPs I know are more flashy. Their presentation is more keyed up to hide their feelings, even when they are are talking about them. They make broader strokes even though they have Ti in auxiliary when showing anything of themselves. They are more self assured and have a larger facade. They are quick with a quip and have a humongous front of where they are in the scheme of things. They take the piss out of me, you, themselves in a completely charming way. I get a more sedate (for want of a better word) feeling from your responses, something a little more humble, tongue in cheek humour seems more your way. I don't know many ENTPs and the majority are women believe it or not but the vibe is more overt, up front and there in a brilliant display. With you there are layers, tongue in cheek, overtly _*detailed*_ and *complex*. Ti dominant is where I see you. What you give back (in responses) is more detailed, more honed to the components rather than the whole (which conversely is what I would expect from a Ne dominant response). Ne is more looking intuitively to make up the whole. Ti gets bogged and goes over details trying to figure out the components to make up the whole. Your responses reek of Ti chasing it's tail and not seeing the forest for the trees. Ne would be seeing the forest with the trees in it and the little birdies and the hideously deformed axeman wanting to take little red riding hood.....oh noes! Run little red! Run! It's hard to see what your dominant function is yourself. As I said before, describing it is like trying to explain the box from an outsider perspective whilst sitting in the damn box. You can say what it feels like but when it comes down to it the perspective will be a little different from seeing it from the outside. This is what I get from you....going over and over the details trying to understand the Ti whilst using the Ti and explaining the inside of the box. It took an outsider to tell me what my dominant function is....I'm seeing clearly now that it will be the same for you...heh.

Try looking at the child development articles that are in each section of the types. Start with INTP and hang there for a while to see if your humour is the same. Humour is the best way to see types.


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## Elaminopy (Jun 29, 2011)

bethdeth said:


> LOL @ you for wanting details from an INTJ.


:laughing: But you're so good at it! That was a joke about how you complain about my amount of details. I half think you got that I was joking and half don't, because I'm used to people thinking I'm being serious all the time. But thank you for going into detail anyway. It really helps me to understand. I read almost every post in that video thread (stopped on the last pages) and it was educational.



> I wonder if you were stressed by making the first video?


Uh, I don't think so. I can't think of anything I'd be stressed about other than making a video for the first time. Did my other videos also contain that? Or did you even watch them? They are better than my first 4.



> Your responses reek of Ti chasing it's tail and not seeing the forest for the trees.


omg why are you being so mean to me? And besides, Ti doesn't chase tails. Se does. Chasing of things, especially of something so pointless as one's own tail is something only an Se would do. I don't appreciate you comparing me to an Se-dom. It's insulting. Why would you even say I am an Se-dom anyway? How can I be an Se-dom and be saturated by Si? Se is like ADD. I've never been diagnosed with ADD before! Are you a doctor now, thinking you can just throw out these medical terms whenever your Ni gives you an inkling? How presumptuous of you! I know being INTJ makes you a scientist and all, but that doesn't make up for years and years in medical school. I resent your puffed-up attitude about your own type and thinking you know everything just because your brain decided to use some functions over others. I'm sorry. I can't think of more to say. That was fun, though.

Anyway, what things have I said that indicate Ti chasing it's tail? It's difficult for me to visualize what that would be. Like you said, it's hard for me to see my Ti because it is dominant. Can you post examples of my Ti doing that and how the example is an example of it? It would be very helpful.



> Try looking at the child development articles that are in each section of the types. Start with INTP and hang there for a while to see if your humour is the same. Humour is the best way to see types.


Will do. Sounds interesting.


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## antiant (Jul 4, 2010)

FluffyCloud said:


> Meh... if Fe is dominant, then Ti is inferior. Inferior functions are present, yes, but they don't behave the same way as they do when they're dominant. They're either very weak or negated somehow.
> 
> Anyway, I'm Ti dominant and I don't see Ti here. I see Te or Fe. My view is subject to change upon further data, but that's what it is for now. I read your post but I didn't find it convincing. This gentleman is not an ISTP, and he said himself that he feels out of place with the INTPs. Ti dominant is a bad guess in my opinion, at this time.


I never said he was an INTP or ISTP (others stated that). I simply stated, which functions he has. It's very clear that he is working with Ti, Ne, Si and Fe (not necessarily in that order, but that he's using them), more so than the other combinations. Also, it's harder to recognize your dominant function, until you have a thorough understanding of the functions (not saying you don't either). The pairs is as follows: (Se and Ni), (Ne and Si), (Fe and Ti) and (Te and Fi).


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## Elaminopy (Jun 29, 2011)

antiant said:


> I never said he was an INTP or ISTP (others stated that). I simply stated, which functions he has. It's very clear that he is working with Ti, Ne, Si and Fe (not necessarily in that order, but that he's using them), more so than the other combinations. Also, it's harder to recognize your dominant function, until you have a thorough understanding of the functions (not saying you don't either). The pairs is as follows: (Se and Ni), (Ne and Si), (Fe and Ti) and (Te and Fi).


So far I have failed in my attempts to find a good source of information on the functions when paired together. Ti with Ne for example. Know of some?


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## kittychris07 (Jun 15, 2010)

Elaminopy said:


> So far I have failed in my attempts to find a good source of information on the functions when paired together. Ti with Ne for example. Know of some?


I wonder if such a description would exist. I'd assume it would matter what position your functions are in as to how they work together. Like, Si dominant/Ne inferior would probably be way different from Ne dominant/Si inferior or Si aux/Ne tert or Ne aux/Si tert. Also complicated is that your perceiving functions and your judging functions work in tandem, so that would have some effect. 

Well, good luck!!!! :happy:


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