# The INFP - ENFJ hype really strikes me as a myth. Thoughts on shadow pairing in general ?



## 556155 (Apr 29, 2020)

I've realized that the 3 ENFJs I took a liking to/dated were in fact ... INFJs Sx-dom. Leading me to undo my own mistypes and to discover that I've had bad clashes with the real ENFJS I've known, to the point where I've had to drop acquaintanceship with 2 of them.

My hypothesis is that as I grow older, Fe is less and less complementary for me. The older and healthier I get, the more emotionally autonomous ("aloof") and the less I feel a need to express my feelings, which is extremely irritating for the ENFJs in my vicinity. Looking back it time, when I was more insecure, I liked the warmth and protective nature of Fe. Now, it tends to come more as a distraction, throwing me off the balance I've achieved, contrary to Te which is very complementary for me.

Other important factors that could explain my current problems with ENFJs are enneagram and instinctual stackings : most ENFJs I know are 2, while most INFPs as I understand it are often 4. There's a potential here for a lot of imbalance, with the former being considerably more extraverted than the latter. A lot of emotional volatility, too, since there's both heart type.

Hence my first question : what are the dynamics between this pairing when at least one of them is not a heart type. Say ENFJ 6 and INFP 4 ? INFP 9 and ENFJ 2 ? Or when they're both the same instinctual variant ?

Second question bears on the shadow pairing for other types. In the ENFJ-INFP case, I'm really inclined to blame the fact that there both judgers first, making conflicts potentially really tense. The same could be said of INTP-ENTJ for example. However, I don't know if the same dynamics apply to ENFP-INFJ and INTJ-ENTP since Ni and Ne are not judging functions.

So, what are your thoughts ?

Edit english error


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## Llyralen (Sep 4, 2017)

It completely depends on the individuals, but I find ENFP and INFJ amazing in friendships and potential partners but also that there is more potential for hurt. I also think other things about the individuals need to balance or else it can be a very bad fit. 

So really even though I don’t like the term shadow pairing, because the priorities of feeling-intuition-sensing-and thinking pair up it is easy to see each other’s flaws. It is also easy to see each other’s amazing points, but if one of you is more healthy than the other then the healthy one will be more keenly aware of this than if it were some other type. Almost with the same keenness as what you would recognize in your own type. When accepted by someone who you think is amazing of the shadow-pairing it gives such wonderful validation for who you are— with the right person of that function.

Also, how extroverted or introverted or how perceiver or how judger the two people are can be out of balance. I see a lot of different scenarios with this. I’m a very strong perceiver, myself, 90% on the MBTI test and my husband is an INFP. I’m not sure that my 90% perceiver self could handle or be handled by an IxxJ— it would have to be one whose Fe was strong enough to be up for doing new things. Maybe if they were lower of the judger side? What about extroversion? I’m more ambiverted but would an extreme introvert want to be with me or me with them? Anyway, there’s all of these different balances that come into play.

You rightly mention Enneagram. Thats probably even more important for personal relations, isn’t it? An ENFJ 2 or 3 and an INFP 9 would work very well. Enneagram usually says any really healthy people can get along but that at average levels where most of us are then it is more difficult. For INFJ 4 or INFJ 1 or 9 and ENFP 7 or 4 these work fairly well. 9 and 6 or 2 and sometimes in either type and would very well. 

On the unhealthy side of things, the two types might just not appreciate the other’s functions and input enough. And this can lead to horrible hurt.

It is my personal experience that when all these things balance well then shadow pairing is the most amazing and special bond... but also potentially the most hurtful. 

My INTP sister has an awesome relationship with her ENTJ husband. He adores her and thinks she is brilliant. Luckily it balances, they are both brilliant. 

But everyone just needs to find what is right for themselves. And I think we need to really understand functions a lot better and understand what is going on in people’s brains when they make decisions because I think a lot of times when we get along we don’t truly take into account how deep these functions are. Here is Meghan Levite’s talking about her intense emotions when judging others. Since I’m always thinking of individuals this process is completely different for my head. Understanding all of these steps can be very interesting, I think.


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## 556155 (Apr 29, 2020)

@Llyralen 

Thank you so much for your imput, it was really comprehensive and I agree with ... well, pretty much everything in retrospect. Indeed, it looks like it can go into two completely opposite directions.


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## Zeri (Jan 23, 2018)

Interesting. I've been researching this dynamic for the last two weeks, after introducing my infp friend to an enfj acquaintance. My husband and I were pretty sure they'd hit it off....but so far it's been a bit 'meh'...although they're both getting to know each other still. My infp friend finds him interesting but says that things don't flow as well as she'd like. On observing their dynamic I feel that there's some conflict between her Fi and his Fe. He seems to like validation and connection...which I think comes off to my friend as being a bit needy and eager, somewhat. For his part, I don't think she gives as much validation as he's accustomed to. 

I've seen a lot of posts recommending this pairing, and then some that they say it's not a good match. I see that socionics characterises this pair as 'extinguishment relations' too. Interested to hear more opinions about this match.


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## Zeri (Jan 23, 2018)

Interesting. I've been researching this dynamic for the last two weeks, after introducing my infp friend to an enfj acquaintance. My husband and I were pretty sure they'd hit it off....but so far it's been a bit 'meh'...although they're both getting to know each other still. My infp friend finds him interesting but says that things don't flow as well as she'd like. On observing their dynamic I feel that there's some conflict between her Fi and his Fe. He seems to like validation and connection...which I think comes off to my friend as being a bit needy and eager, somewhat. For his part, I don't think she gives as much validation as he's accustomed to. 

I've seen a lot of posts recommending this pairing, and then some that they say it's not a good match. I see that socionics characterises this pair as 'extinguishment relations' too. Interested to hear more opinions about this match.


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## Zeri (Jan 23, 2018)

Sorry for the double post.
I don't know much about enneagrams/shadow pairing, but I thought it was interesting that you relate to Te. My friend seems to gravitate to Estjs too, although she's had bad experiences with them as well.


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## 556155 (Apr 29, 2020)

@Zeri 
Yes, I have an ENTJ friend, who is enneagram 8 too, so he really doesn't pull his punches. I have no problems stomaching it and it's a good dynamic overall because I help him with his emotions and he helps me with getting things done. I wouldn't date him, though, he's very very J haha.


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## Llyralen (Sep 4, 2017)

I think MBTI accounts for only 1/2 of the personality of a person. So finding individuals who work for you and love you back is probably hard enough without bringing MBTI romanticism /type idealism into the game. I think we see it often enough around here... people idealizing certain types. I do it too. I wonder if it detracts from overall appreciation in the individual when we can label what functions their brain is using. Does it become that they are amazing to us because of their type and type pairing? 
Sometimes someone from a type that seemed to be not one of the ones I think I get along with pops up and shows me that they are amazing— do I discount them because of type? Do I recognize that we could be friends even when they are a type I don’t usually gravitate towards? Are we dismissing red flags in people whose types we think we like because we think we like their type do we think we like them? Just all things to really ask ourselves when it comes to friendships and looking for a partner.


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## dulcinea (Aug 22, 2011)

Shadow pairing of perceiving functions is kinda nice, especially when it's the same kind of function (sensing or intuition)
Shadow pairing of judging functions can lead to greater conflict, as one type has a more difficult time understanding the though process of the other.
Although INFJ/INTJ can be a good pair, being both Ni-doms. There will be that Fe-Te conflict, but being both introverts and Ni-doms, they might have a similar enough world view to get past that.

Overall, it's good for people in relationships to be at least as similar as they are different. You'd want a partner that challenges you, but not to the point that you have to always step outside your comfort zone in order to relate to them. Then it just becomes stressful.

That being said, I always bring up how and AI predicted the success of relationships, and it analyzed the the only parimeter that really matters is how dedicated each person is to making the relationship last, so in reality ALL type pairings can be a good pairing if both people are determined to not give up on the relationship during difficulties.


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## Phil (Dec 27, 2010)

All my closest friendships and relationships have been with INFPs (Type 4's specifically) so I'm going to have to disagree from my own personal experiences.


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## alexhales (May 3, 2019)

In general, I'm pretty skeptical of shadow pairings. I feel like when you don't have any functions in common, there's more opportunities for misunderstandings and conflict, even if you're both NFs as in the case of ENFJ-INFP. I personally have a problem with the Keirsey Temperaments but that's another story. Anyway, I feel you should have at least one function pair in common for it to work. Otherwise, you never really feel like you're on the same wavelength. For example, my xNFJ sister (think she's a 6 but I'm not sure) and I (INFP, 4) share many of the same interests, but communication can be very hard at times and we clash a lot, her Fe-Ni drives my Fi-Ne insane and vice versa. Now I know people within the same type are different, but the underlying polarities within the Fe-Fi dynamic don't really change, unless the two people are very mature and balanced.


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## Zeri (Jan 23, 2018)

alexhales said:


> In general, I'm pretty skeptical of shadow pairings. I feel like when you don't have any functions in common, there's more opportunities for misunderstandings and conflict, even if you're both NFs as in the case of ENFJ-INFP. I personally have a problem with the Keirsey Temperaments but that's another story. Anyway, I feel you should have at least one function pair in common for it to work. Otherwise, you never really feel like you're on the same wavelength. For example, my xNFJ sister (think she's a 6 but I'm not sure) and I (INFP, 4) share many of the same interests, but communication can be very hard at times and we clash a lot, her Fe-Ni drives my Fi-Ne insane and vice versa. Now I know people within the same type are different, but the underlying polarities within the Fe-Fi dynamic don't really change, unless the two people are very mature and balanced.


Interesting. Can you share some examples of the clash between her Fe-Ni and your Fi-Ne? I'm really curious about the dynamic between Fe and Fi, especially. 

Thanks


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## 556155 (Apr 29, 2020)

Phil said:


> All my closest friendships and relationships have been with INFPs (Type 4's specifically) so I'm going to have to disagree from my own personal experiences.


Well that's nice to read, I must have had a series of cursed encounters with ENFJs, it happens.


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## Phil (Dec 27, 2010)

YvonneZemski said:


> Well that's nice to read, I must have had a series of cursed encounters with ENFJs, it happens.


I'm sorry to hear that :c It can be a beautiful thing when it works out.


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## tarmonk (Nov 21, 2017)

YvonneZemski said:


> Second question bears on the shadow pairing for other types. In the ENFJ-INFP case, I'm really inclined to blame the fact that there both judgers first, making conflicts potentially really tense. The same could be said of INTP-ENTJ for example. However, I don't know if the same dynamics apply to ENFP-INFJ and INTJ-ENTP since Ni and Ne are not judging functions.


I don't know how it works for other shadow pairs but I can confirm ENFP/INFJ works really well based on my relationship. From my viewpoint (as ENFP), INFJ seems to have least amount of naturally conflicting personality traits compared to any other type if I was in relationship with them. It might be that your theory works - Ni and Ne aren't judging functions thus we both are quite observant and match really well. Same seems to apply for other INFJs whom I know as colleagues.


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## LeafStew (Oct 17, 2009)

From my own experience ENFJ want to take control of the INFP and threat them a bit like a mother/child relationship. I personnally don't really get along deeply with ENFJ, I tolerate them but I most of the time don't have that much in common with them.

In my own experience MBTI is just a starting point after that you have to check if their enneagram is compatible with yours too. I see both as multiple facet of the personality of someone.

There was a thread made by OrangeAppled that explained all the dynamic between INFP and other MBTI type, I find that it was extremely accurate. I can't find it again but if I remember correctly optimal pair for INFP are INFP/INFP, INFP/ISTJ, INFP/INFJ, INFP/ESFP and INFP/ENTJ. Other pair could work but it's more work to make the relation work.


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## alexhales (May 3, 2019)

Zeri said:


> Interesting. Can you share some examples of the clash between her Fe-Ni and your Fi-Ne? I'm really curious about the dynamic between Fe and Fi, especially.
> 
> Thanks


Here are some examples. I'm not sure if these portray it that well but I hope this helps.

Fe-Fi: 
Once I was telling her about a joke someone made that everyone laughed at but I personally found offensive, her response was if everyone found it funny then what's the big deal? I also hate how she's always giving me unwanted advice. Acts like I don’t know my own mind, like I need her to help me figure it out - “I’m thinking of a career as a psychologist” “Are you sure? You’re so shy and introverted and not at all a people person. You would probably do better in a career which doesn’t involve a lot of social interaction." 


With Ni it's mainly her seeing things in black and white terms and not particularly liking the "randomness" and "impractical" nature of my Ne. She has that annoying Ni "arrogance" - always thinking she's right. Also sometimes, she'll tell me why she thinks person X did Y, then ask for my opinion. If I get into Ne tangents or come up with a "wild" theory, she sort of dismisses it straight off the bat as being "far-fetched" and "irrelevant" which may indeed be true; what bugs me is she never seems to think outside the box. I feel like she's always so absorbed in her "Ni vision" to broaden her perspective.


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## Zeri (Jan 23, 2018)

alexhales said:


> Here are some examples. I'm not sure if these portray it that well but I hope this helps.
> 
> Fe-Fi:
> Once I was telling her about a joke someone made that everyone laughed at but I personally found offensive, her response was if everyone found it funny then what's the big deal? I also hate how she's always giving me unwanted advice. Acts like I don’t know my own mind, like I need her to help me figure it out - “I’m thinking of a career as a psychologist” “Are you sure? You’re so shy and introverted and not at all a people person. You would probably do better in a career which doesn’t involve a lot of social interaction."
> ...


Thanks for sharing


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## 556155 (Apr 29, 2020)

alexhales said:


> Here are some examples. I'm not sure if these portray it that well but I hope this helps.
> 
> Fe-Fi:
> Once I was telling her about a joke someone made that everyone laughed at but I personally found offensive, her response was if everyone found it funny then what's the big deal? I also hate how she's always giving me unwanted advice. Acts like I don’t know my own mind, like I need her to help me figure it out - “I’m thinking of a career as a psychologist” “Are you sure? You’re so shy and introverted and not at all a people person. You would probably do better in a career which doesn’t involve a lot of social interaction."
> ...


I have an ENFJ sister too, but she's 4w5 so she's way more aloof that your typical ENFJ and she doesn't give unwarranted advices. I get on OK with her though we don't see each other more than once a month haha. But clearly, NOT trying to compare the way we deal with other people or "decipher/empathize" them is an absolute must, at least not if we both know the other person. Also not explain aloud to each other the way our value system works. That's like the highway to a Fi-Fe clash.


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## alexhales (May 3, 2019)

YvonneZemski said:


> I have an ENFJ sister too, but she's 4w5 so she's way more aloof that your typical ENFJ and she doesn't give unwarranted advices. I get on OK with her though we don't see each other more than once a month haha. But clearly, NOT trying to compare the way we deal with other people or "decipher/empathize" them is an absolute must, at least not if we both know the other person. Also not explain aloud to each other the way our value system works. That's like the highway to a Fi-Fe clash.


I see. My sister and I used to see each other much more often than that, maybe that’s a factor. You’re right, our value systems are like chalk and cheese - we can never truly “get” each other. I’ve come to just accept it and try to find other people who I have more in common with.


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## Phil (Dec 27, 2010)

Forewarning: I'm not taking anything you've all said personally, I'm just curious as to how you've all meshed so poorly with my type. But good God, who are these ENFJs you're all referring to? Just about all of my friends are INFP Type 4's, I've only ever been patient with listening to them, and helping where I can. I don't do so out of feeling they _need_ help, or feel that they can't navigate the world on their own — I just have a deep appreciation for how deeply they feel and their inner worlds. I have no desire to control _anyone_, especially not those I find so internally beautiful. I love how imaginative they are, too. I've been shown appreciation for being able to apply a practical approach to make what they think materialize into the real world, as well as shown appreciation for taking the time to understand them. I'm very close with several of them, and the two relationships I've been in with them are the most loving relationships I've ever been in, and they only ended because of distance. I can see why you guys wouldn't mesh with ENFJs when it comes to functions, but I'm so confused as to how my experience has been so different. Could it be due to my Ennegream type? @YvonneZemski did say that her sister was Type 4. Which Ennegream type was she @alexhales ? That might give me some sort of clue. I'm sorry you've all had such poor experiences, though. Personally I've never been able to become so close to any type before, and the time I've spent learning about them has enriched my life and made me think in ways that I never could have without them.


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## 556155 (Apr 29, 2020)

@Phil

Well maybe I can try to answer that :

1. The context of my OP was that I've been surrounding with high Fe others these last months, I was in an environment where I was supposed to "fit" to Fe standards as was demanded to me by all individuals involved in the situation (all NFJ who didn't know about MBTI). In one-to-one situations, the Fi-Fe clash is not a problem, it's not even showing. The problem comes when one party is completely outnumbered and get positioned by default as a black sheep or someone who needs to revise his/her attitude. And that's just not working because betraying internal authenticity is death to a Fi user. One of the ENFJ I've clashed with sort of "attacked" me when I decided to put some distance with an INFJ friend of mine, like he jumped to her defense without her even asking and without knowing the situation. It was painful for me to have someone question a very hard ethical decision of mine which I had tried to make the fairer possible. Point is : attacking a Fi/Fe-dom on his morals or his ethics is going to create huge resentment, that's where the biggest part of our ego dwells. That's why I said there was more potential problems when one of the parties tries to get involved into the relational decisions of the other.

2. The ENFJs acquaintances with whom I've clashed, and this guy in particular, was in bad situation in life, he was pressured from all sides (job, family). He was clearly over-relying on Fe and I myself was over-relying on Fi because of depression and we could have dwelt with this situation more wisely had we been healthier.

3. There's other areas of (in)compatibility. I'm not reediting my rant on so/sx but after several experiences, I stick to my perception of So/sx and sp/sx being a nightmarish match in the long run. Geez I even have trouble with so/sx of my own type, the difference is that at least the same function language makes us possible to make ourselves understood during a conflict and to agree on strategies to deal with it.

4. The fact that I didn't mesh well with some ENFJs doesn't mean I don't recognize their caring, appreciative, supportive and understanding nature. And I really like those qualities, they do a lot of good to plenty. However, being overly cared for the way _some_ Fe users operates (emotional validation, pampering) is lost on me after a while. It's cute and I can see it comes from a place of deeply caring but it really lowkey undermines my self-esteem if it keeps going because ultimately I got treated as some sort of fragile and clueless being while what I really need is someone to authorize me to be myself and to act either upon my values either upon pragmatism. That's prolly why some *NFP get along well with *NTJ.

5. I'm not referring intrinsically to "poor" experiences with ENFJ, sometimes we INFP express our experiences with words that can appear exceedingly gloomy to other types because Fi has high standards when it comes to harmony, respect and understanding in a relationship.


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## alexhales (May 3, 2019)

Phil said:


> Forewarning: I'm not taking anything you've all said personally, I'm just curious as to how you've all meshed so poorly with my type. But good God, who are these ENFJs you're all referring to? Just about all of my friends are INFP Type 4's, I've only ever been patient with listening to them, and helping where I can. I don't do so out of feeling they _need_ help, or feel that they can't navigate the world on their own — I just have a deep appreciation for how deeply they feel and their inner worlds. I have no desire to control _anyone_, especially not those I find so internally beautiful. I love how imaginative they are, too. I've been shown appreciation for being able to apply a practical approach to make what they think materialize into the real world, as well as shown appreciation for taking the time to understand them. I'm very close with several of them, and the two relationships I've been in with them are the most loving relationships I've ever been in, and they only ended because of distance. I can see why you guys wouldn't mesh with ENFJs when it comes to functions, but I'm so confused as to how my experience has been so different. Could it be due to my Ennegream type? @YvonneZemski did say that her sister was Type 4. Which Ennegream type was she @alexhales ? That might give me some sort of clue. I'm sorry you've all had such poor experiences, though. Personally I've never been able to become so close to any type before, and the time I've spent learning about them has enriched my life and made me think in ways that I never could have without them.


I'm not certain, I used to think she was a 6 but now I'm pretty sure she is either a 3w2 or an 8w9. She definitely has the bearing and presentation of a 3, and to a lesser extent 8 too. Also, may I ask what your enneagram type is?

When ExFJs don't try to impose and just leave me to my own devices, things are generally better between us. When Fe has that selfless, "you do as you see fit, I won't interfere at all" attitude, it's easier for me to get along with them. My main problem is when Fe assumes a more active role and acts like it knows best for me. It's like wait a minute, I'm a person too, I have a mind of my own, and I'm going to do things and live my life in a way that you won't always agree with. Whereas if Fe is just passively observing in the background, that's fine. Thing is, this seems to be the very opposite of Fe's nature, what with Fe being a Je function and all. Fe wants to be involved, too involved at times, and this is exacerbated with a loved one, like my ENFJ sister. I may add that she's also older than me (by 7 years, if that helps?) Whenever I try to confront her about these issues, she always claims it's the wide age gap, "besides, I'm only concerned about you" Uh huh. I've seen siblings with a similar age difference and they don't all behave the way my sister does with me...
However, I do know a couple of older, mature ISFJs and though they probably disagree with me on most things, their Fe seems to exhibit the passive attitude I speak of. Maybe it's the dominant Si. Or maybe it's just because we don't know each other that well to begin with.


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## Zeri (Jan 23, 2018)

alexhales said:


> I'm not certain, I used to think she was a 6 but now I'm pretty sure she is either a 3w2 or an 8w9. She definitely has the bearing and presentation of a 3, and to a lesser extent 8 too. Also, may I ask what your enneagram type is?
> 
> When ExFJs don't try to impose and just leave me to my own devices, things are generally better between us. When Fe has that selfless, "you do as you see fit, I won't interfere at all" attitude, it's easier for me to get along with them. My main problem is when Fe assumes a more active role and acts like it knows best for me. It's like wait a minute, I'm a person too, I have a mind of my own, and I'm going to do things and live my life in a way that you won't always agree with. Whereas if Fe is just passively observing in the background, that's fine. Thing is, this seems to be the very opposite of Fe's nature, what with Fe being a Je function and all. Fe wants to be involved, too involved at times, and this is exacerbated with a loved one, like my ENFJ sister. I may add that she's also older than me (by 7 years, if that helps?) Whenever I try to confront her about these issues, she always claims it's the wide age gap, "besides, I'm only concerned about you" Uh huh. I've seen siblings with a similar age difference and they don't all behave the way my sister does with me...
> However, I do know a couple of older, mature ISFJs and though they probably disagree with me on most things, their Fe seems to exhibit the passive attitude I speak of. Maybe it's the dominant Si. Or maybe it's just because we don't know each other that well to begin with.


Yeah, I think Esfjs tend to be like this as well - very overbearing in a caring way. That dominant Fe, and J, I suppose. We Isfjs can be controlling too, but in general we're not as forceful about it - I guess because Fe is in auxiliary position, and sometimes our Si just wants to sit back and take things in.


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## Zeri (Jan 23, 2018)

YvonneZemski said:


> @Phil
> 
> Well maybe I can try to answer that :
> 
> ...


 May I ask what's So/sx? 

Interesting what you said there, especially, in No. 4. Yeah, I think there's a clash somewhere, with dom Fi's having that inner sense of self and dom Fe's need for external validation. I think that Infps may see Enfjs as being too needy for external validation which is so different from the Infps' need to be true to self. And I think that the Enfj may feel that the Infp is too inner-centred and not focused enough on the 'external', like how their affections affect others etc. If that makes sense. But I know Infps are caring types too, just not in the same ways as Fe types. 

Relationship-wise, it's confusing because I know my Infp friend says she wants somebody who's kind and caring and affectionate (which the Enfj is), but somehow I don't think Infps like too much Fe. Somehow it seems that they strive for a balance by gravitating to T types. Maybe because the Infp is an emotional type and needs that balance in someone who is more logical? My friend generally tends to gravitate to Estj types, but that doesn't generally work out too well. I've been wondering if an Intj might work, as well. She doesn't like 'asshole' type men (which the Estjs she's dated generally turn out to be - very abrasive and insensitive), but likes a strong man who has an opinion but is not 'jerky' with it.


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## 556155 (Apr 29, 2020)

So/sx refers to the theory of instinctual stacking which is an addition to the enneagram.
It colors each enneatype differently and plays a role into someone's centers of interests and hierarchy of needs. So/sx is one of the instinct with an emphasis on the social instinct (so), which rules the reading of social clues, symbolic bonding processes and the interest and analysis of community and group dynamics (amongst which politics). Sp (self-preservation) is concerned with the protection of the self, survival, boundaries, the territoriality of home, the gathering of resources, and the apprehension of time as something that could become scarce. 








Instinctual Variants Stackings | Wiki | Myers Briggs [MBTI] Amino


There are 6 stackings: SP/SO, SP/SX, SO/SP, SO/SX, SX/SP, and SX/SO. Below are descriptions of the




aminoapps.com







Zeri said:


> Interesting what you said there, especially, in No. 4. Yeah, I think there's a clash somewhere, with dom Fi's having that inner sense of self and dom Fe's need for external validation. I think that Infps may see Enfjs as being too needy for external validation which is so different from the Infps' need to be true to self. And I think that the Enfj may feel that the Infp is too inner-centred and not focused enough on the 'external', like how their affections affect others etc. If that makes sense. But I know Infps are caring types too, just not in the same ways as Fe types.


 I concur with that. 



Zeri said:


> Relationship-wise, it's confusing because I know my Infp friend says she wants somebody who's kind and caring and affectionate (which the Enfj is), but somehow I don't think Infps like too much Fe. Somehow it seems that they strive for a balance by gravitating to T types. Maybe because the Infp is an emotional type and needs that balance in someone who is more logical? My friend generally tends to gravitate to Estj types, but that doesn't generally work out too well. I've been wondering if an Intj might work, as well. She doesn't like 'asshole' type men (which the Estjs she's dated generally turn out to be - very abrasive and insensitive), but likes a strong man who has an opinion but is not 'jerky' with it.


I understand you're trying to help your INFP friend to find someone ? I don't really know how to help you with that, tbh ^^ My ideal relationship is polyamorous because my romantic ideals shifts ... I tend to long for affectionateness from times to times when life takes a toll on me but when I'm given it, I consider I have had enough of it for three months - my gauge is full pretty quickly, especially compared to a Fe user. And "kind, caring and affectionate" could really qualify an INFP or a *SFJ, too. Anyways, irl, I just "click" with some people or not. That's why you can just introduce her to people if you have the occasion and see where it goes from there. 
Yes, NF-NT pairings are common for the reason you said : NF already do enough ethical/moral reasoning for two people anyways, if not for the entire planet, they need help with logic and sensing. Some INFPs pair with either INTJ, either ENTJ.


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## Zeri (Jan 23, 2018)

Thanks for the explanation re : so/sx. No worries re: my INFP friend - I really wasn't look for help per se, but I was interested in this post and your experience re: INFPs and ENFJS due to having recently introduced my friend to an ENFJ who I thought for sure she would click with. . The jury is still out... Will see how they end up working out. Thanks


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## Llyralen (Sep 4, 2017)

I’m just stating the obvious but Fe doms and Fe aux talent, strength and attitude is “This is the moral consensus, this is what people like and I’m going to support it.”. And the Fi attitude is “This is what I think is morally right. This is what I like and I’m going to support it. .” When both groups support their own strength, they find happiness in it and harmony either external or intrinsic. 

If both parties find a discrepancy between the values needing to be followed then Fe can get “helpful” for this “childish” “unique in a bad way” and “different in a bad way” and seemingly ridiculous and puzzling difference. They can see the values or the person as either so different or so disliked or disruptive that they will actually lynch someone from the group. I have definitely seen it. If they care enough to give changing the person a try or “setting them right” then they will try They can get so offended that they think everyone is getting offended with the same degree and pitch of emotional upheaval as themselves. If it’s just 1 or 2 things that they think is “off” about the person then they might think it is a trifle to set them right, when the INFP might be holding onto that 1-2 small differences with all the strength of their perceived identity, which is just as strong as the ENFJs sense of the values of the group. 

Both these two can make mistakes. The ENFJ might think people in their group feel as much as themselves. Might feel that they are getting offended on behalf of everyone. Or fighting battles for everyone. If the Fe dom feels this strongly, then in general they aren’t going to be as connected with their group as they think they are. In typical ExxJ style. 

On the INFP side it’s everything flip-flopped. People are probably more connected to them than the INFP thinks they are. Thinking their actions don’t affect others, they will take themselves out of a group that doesn’t match their internal view of what is morally right. They must follow their own beliefs or else it’s a loss of inner happiness and peace. 

We can see where all of this can easily clash. 

If the Fe and Fi ‘s values match well in the big points and can be curious and interested in the smaller different points then it can all work awesome. If both people can keep in mind how things work for the other and equally admire each other’s values it can be downright awesome. If an INFPs Fi is seen as a standard for the Fe user then they can become very protective and a champion of the INFP. If they cannot see the “truth” or a higher standard in the INFP, then why would they become a champion for any of it? But I’ve also experienced myself that sometimes being seen as following a higher standard can also alienate the INFJ or ENFJ. They can feel like you’re not relatable and like they aren’t needed or they can feel conflicted between what they see as the group values versus the Fi. And some are looking for more TI than Fi, and still see Fi as somewhat childish in its unique stubbornness with values they see as not universal. So it all depends. Similarly someone with high Fi might look for someone with dependable Te for validation. It all depends. 

I stand by what I said about these kinds of pairings being either amazing and extremely self-defining in a way that seems just amazing OR more hurtful than most relationships. But I don’t usually see these relationships as being uneventful.


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## Temple (Aug 18, 2020)

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