# Type 9 vs Type 4



## Kamajama (Feb 28, 2009)

Can someone explain how one can determine which type they are between Type 9 and 4? They both describe me relatively equally.


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## openedskittles (May 24, 2009)

It can be pretty difficult to narrow it down to just one. Check out the underlying motives thread, it might help you type yourself.


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## Sidewalk Balloonatic (Mar 10, 2009)

I just found out I was Nine and not Four a couple of days ago. :mellow: I feel royally stupid. It seems so obvious now. I still relate a lot to being very envious, shameful, having the desire to express myself, to be authentic and punch people in the liver... but the desire for harmony between myself and others usually wins. :frustrating:

I think how each approaches conflict is one way to tell them apart. Fours like to rile people up and make them feel as instenely about things as they do, whilst also pouring out all their feelings immediately. Nines prefer to calm things down, reduce tension and dissonance between themselves and others and are more reluctant to share their own feelings on the issue at hand. This is a difference between the Reactive Interaction Style and the Positive Outlook Interaction Style.

You can read more here.

The Harmonic Groups

and here.

Enneagram Harmonics

The Types in Conflict


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## Alana4297 (Oct 19, 2014)

9s: have less overpowering feelings than 4s. 4s feel more pain, sadness, depression, anxiety. 
9s: hate conflict, like to act as mediators 
4s: envy is a defining feature, want what others have because they think it will make them happy 
9s: simplify problems with their complacency, while 4s always want to have a concrete identity
9s: have man qualities similar to other types, thus resulting in a lack of identity 
4s: extremely sensitive. Probably too sensitive to be easy going 


This is coming from a four.


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## ScientiaOmnisEst (Oct 2, 2013)

I knew bookmarking this would come in handy:

http://www.timelessofficial.com/timeless/images/eidb/enneagramtypes4and9disambiguation.pdf


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## Flaming Bassoon (Feb 15, 2013)

It's 6 years too late to help the OP but let's do this anyway 

-9s are positive outlook types, 4s are reactive. 
-4s are in the heart or shame triad, meaning they often succumb to it when unhealthy, along with a myriad of other emotions. 9s are in the gut or anger triad, being seemingly numb when unhealthy, often not allowing themselves to truly feel strong emotions, especially anger.
-9s suffer from a lack of identity (feeling like they don't truly identify with one thing or another), 4s build their identities around being different.
And 9s are a hell of a lot more common than 4s. 

Chances are if you identify _a lot _with 3 or more enneagram descriptions you're probably a 9...the lack of identity thing and such.


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## Golden Rose (Jun 5, 2014)

Flaming Bassoon said:


> Chances are if you identify _a lot _with 3 or more enneagram descriptions you're probably a 9...the lack of identity thing and such.


Feeling a lot of 6ish uneasiness and somehow anxiety in denial and a need for answers and inner peace when under massive stress can be an indicator too. I'm still considering things but disintegration lines help.


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## Starflakes (Sep 13, 2009)

4's shudder at the thought of blending in with everyone else and want to stand out while I'm pretty sure 9's, on the whole, would be ok with blending in.


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## 0+n*1 (Sep 20, 2013)

I am not sure about 9s wanting to blend in. I think they yearn for being able to stand out (3 being their soul child). Maybe the unaware ones do not notice this, but I think the most you realize you are a 9, the more you feel disgusted with the idea. This is coming from a potential 9 (or 6), so I could be wrong and ultimately this is just my experience. If seen from a specific angle, blending in is ok, but if seen from another angle, it only reinforces what could be a very painful stigma. That 9s are bland, blank, undefined, unknown, invisible, not special, empty, dead. And ultimately loveless.


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## cloquet (Jan 16, 2015)

9's repress their opinions. I can see them struggling them to let them out but they never quite can. If they do, it's always with a lot of qualifications. And if someone challenges them, they retreat. I rarely see a 9 win an argument, it's kind of sad. 4's have staunch opinions. And they often condescendingly feel that anyone's else's opinion isn't worth their time. If you try to start an argument they'll get huffy and pouty. Cause people "just don't understand the complexity of the way they see things". Stooping down to argue is seen as beneath them. And they can be very melodramatic about their views. I can really see the connection to the 1ish superego in 4s.

4s see themselves as refined and are quite formal. This 4 dude I know well even washes and dresses up to go to the gym. 9s are laid back and informal. Almost always.


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## rockinlibrarian (Jul 30, 2014)

Sidewalk Balloonatic said:


> I think how each approaches conflict is one way to tell them apart. Fours like to rile people up and make them feel as instenely about things as they do, whilst also pouring out all their feelings immediately. Nines prefer to calm things down, reduce tension and dissonance between themselves and others and are more reluctant to share their own feelings on the issue at hand. This is a difference between the Reactive Interaction Style and the Positive Outlook Interaction Style.


As a 9 with a strong 4-fix, I'll second this as definitely the difference that keeps me one over the other.


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## bellybutton (Jan 2, 2014)

cloquet said:


> 9's repress their opinions. I can see them struggling them to let them out but they never quite can. If they do, it's always with a lot of qualifications. And if someone challenges them, they retreat. I rarely see a 9 win an argument, it's kind of sad. 4's have staunch opinions. And they often condescendingly feel that anyone's else's opinion isn't worth their time. If you try to start an argument they'll get huffy and pouty. Cause people "just don't understand the complexity of the way they see things". Stooping down to argue is seen as beneath them. And they can be very melodramatic about their views. I can really see the connection to the 1ish superego in 4s.


I think this is very true, though the four does not always show they believe the argument is beneath them. Nor do they always believe arguing is beneath them. We do have strong opinions, and sometimes we will argue them venomously. Other times we do indeed feel people "just don't understand the complexity of the way we see things". 



> 4s see themselves as refined and are quite formal. This 4 dude I know well even washes and dresses up to go to the gym. 9s are laid back and informal. Almost always.



Not all fours are refined and formal. I can be quite lazy about dressing, especially when I know I will be going to a place where I will not meet anyone who I would need to impress. Especially a gym. But when I go to school or see friends I am quite understated, though not informal. I wear a lot of black. Not in a gothic sort of way. just in such a way that makes me seem serious and reserved. I am a 4w5 though, 4w3s tend to me more flamboyant and colorful. I would not dress up to go to the gym or Walmart though.


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## Zyranne (Oct 15, 2014)

I'm still having trouble deciding whether I'm a 9, or 4. I identify with both traits.


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