# The struggle of the Ti dom in a modern career



## Bhathaway (Dec 17, 2016)

So I've been starting to think there are two Ti dominant types(within the INTP and ISTP groups). One loves learning for new information and enjoys the process of piecing things together regardless of it's usefulness. The other, I've been thinking, enjoys solving problems but needs them to be engaging to keep their interest. It needs to make them feel alive. These types secretly love the crisis because they are clearly the man for the job on solving that crisis by logical understanding and keeping calm. The problem comes in that careers are specifically designed(in general) to minimize risk and maximize profit/efficiency. They try to make crisis happen as infrequently as possible to not jeopardize anything. This makes a problem for this Ti type because they want to experience crisis that require logical solving, but almost no career is like this. They don't actually want the risk involved with a crisis, they just want the rush that comes from solving something within a small time frame and also that matters for others/themselves in their eyes. These types may like FPS games heavily(fast paced and analytical) or sports. The hobby needs to be fast paced, engaging, and challenging. Sports and video games are set up in a way where you are always being challenged by others at your skill level. Most hobbies are not like this either as most hobbies are designed for relaxing, many are not against other people.

Where are the activities for these Ti doms? Where are the careers for them that don't put them in harms way?


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## Turi (May 9, 2017)

Man, who knows, I'm probably a mistyped ISTP so I'll just chip in some shit anyway for the lulz.
I'd fit both versions of a Ti dom here - the INTP one that loves learning new information and piecing things together, even if it's not useful, and the ISTP one that thrives on being cool-headed in tense situations, and loves to solve problems under pressure.
Both are a perfect fit.

Anyway, for careers - the INTP one is probably likely most comfortable with things like philosophy or something, a career where they can keep learning and learning and there doesn't really need to be a practical, real-world "point".
I imagine constantly wanting to learn, would mean they'd excel in a field that is constantly changing as well, like technology.

The ISTP one is similar, to me, in that they'd love to learn, but ideally they'd want to actually put their skills to use "for real", rather than "in theory" - so, again, technology is a great field, they can repair phones, laptops, video game programmer etc, things that put their knowledge into reality.
Things like perhaps.. being a surgeon, emergency services, that kind of thing would satisfy their need for high pressure problem solving.
If I didn't waste my entire life so far pretending to be an academic intellectual this is where I'd be, haha.

For hobbies, I think the same principles apply - both would be into video games because of there always being new games, new techniques, things to improve on, constantly absorbing new information and knowledge etc - Ti is very much a problem solving skill, and IMO, a competitive one.

I'm not entirely sure what the INTP hobbies would be, stereotypically, but ISTP ones, or at least, ones that interest me, are ones where I can show off my skills, basically.. as egotistical as that sounds.
Tearin' it up on a jetski. Waterskiing. Showing off how far away I can nail a 3 pointer in basketball. Showing off how accurate my kick is in football - nail goals from other side of the damn field.
Archery. 
My interests, whether INFJ or ISTP IDGAF - I'm Ti-Fe and Se-Ni axis in whatever order, are exclusively revolved around being the best and are all pretty.. stereotypically Se.. now that I think about it.

I think INTPs would probably enjoy things like.. architecture.. engineering.. that kind of thing, where all their work is basically "in theory" and other people make it actually happen. I'd love that shit too.
Perhaps, if they developed their Fe somewhat, they'd also enjoy teaching, because then they're just sharing their knowledge, always learning more, and there's no real end-goal or anything for them to achieve, just constant knowledge.

Maybe some INTP hobbies would be games like Wordament, Scrabble, that sort of thing, it's hard for me to really split INTP and ISTP hobbies because I feel like I only understand what Ti-Se would be into - word games and shit can be fun for anyone, but I think Ti doms would love that shit regardless of auxiliary function.

I don't know, I'm winging this whole post.

Maybe there is no real hobbies for an INTP so that's why they just troll internet forums and get banned all day.

I mean what does Ne actually do, in the real world?
What does Ne want? What's a hobby for Ne?
Brainstorming ideas? Everybody loves that shit, yeah?

What's Ne actually 'do'?


If a dominant Ne user went to the beach, for example, what would they want to do?
Se would probably want to swim, jetski, etc, actually do things, not walk up the beach talking to someone - I understand this one - but what would an Ne user like to do in this situation?


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## Bhathaway (Dec 17, 2016)

Turi said:


> Man, who knows, I'm probably a mistyped ISTP so I'll just chip in some shit anyway for the lulz.
> I'd fit both versions of a Ti dom here - the INTP one that loves learning new information and piecing things together, even if it's not useful, and the ISTP one that thrives on being cool-headed in tense situations, and loves to solve problems under pressure.
> Both are a perfect fit.
> 
> ...


I feel like an intuitive ISTP lol. I'm too focused on the macro level to associate with Se(along with my lack of desire for environment interaction typically). This makes it tough because ISTP jobs are typically flavored for grounded actions like carpentry and construction etc, but these are often not very intuitive. Intuitive crisis problem solving is nearly non existent in careers it seems. Schooling is also horrendous for the ISTP or INTP that leans in the way this post is referencing because they need engagement to learn best and the college education system is not built for that currently. Tbh I'm terrible at scrabble. It's wierd, I have an absurd mastery or word usage(seriously...I could be a lawyer with how easily I can manipulate words and twist their meaning) and understanding word meaning, but I cannot for the life of me come up with words when I'm playing scrabble. I just can't see them.(mabye it comes from having a more basic vocabulary speech pattern, as I talk using words that are not complex typically).

I don't know what Ne does tbh. Random connections to other contexts and possibilities is very useful for understanding, but it's not particularly useful for feeling engaged. I find I have a harm time feeling engaged in general due to the reality of what I mentioned in the OP. It's like I'm an INTP that doesn't like collecting knowledge just for knowledge sake. This is because simply piecing together logical systems is not enough for me, it needs to be useful infomation, or something I need to know for some thing that I'm motivated to get.


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## Turi (May 9, 2017)

Bhathaway said:


> I feel like an intuitive ISTP lol. I'm too focused on the macro level to associate with Se(along with my lack of desire for environment interaction typically). This makes it tough because ISTP jobs are typically flavored for grounded actions like carpentry and construction etc, but these are often not very intuitive. Intuitive crisis problem solving is nearly non existent in careers it seems. Schooling is also horrendous for the ISTP or INTP that leans in the way this post is referencing because they need engagement to learn best and the college education system is not built for that currently. Tbh I'm terrible at scrabble. It's wierd, I have an absurd mastery or word usage(seriously...I could be a lawyer with how easily I can manipulate words and twist their meaning) and understanding word meaning, but I cannot for the life of me come up with words when I'm playing scrabble. I just can't see them.(mabye it comes from having a more basic vocabulary speech pattern, as I talk using words that are not complex typically).
> 
> I don't know what Ne does tbh. Random connections to other contexts and possibilities is very useful for understanding, but it's not particularly useful for feeling engaged. I find I have a harm time feeling engaged in general due to the reality of what I mentioned in the OP. It's like I'm an INTP that doesn't like collecting knowledge just for knowledge sake. This is because simply piecing together logical systems is not enough for me, it needs to be useful infomation, or something I need to know for some thing that I'm motivated to get.


What precisely, do you mean by "too focused on the macro level to associate with Se"?
I'd love an example.

Carpentry and construction, well no doubt any type can do this and enjoy it, I think there'd be an argument for both Ti and Te wanting to be the designer/architect here, as well as an argument for basically anyone to want to be the builder etc and see their hard work turn into an actual, tangible, result.

Intuitive crisis problem solving does indeed sound a little niche, but, it's emergency services - police on the field, firefighters, paramedics etc, these guys need to be cool-headed problem solvers who rely on a combination of brains and intuition to get the job done.
I'm sure there's more, but emergency services combines all the aspects you're seeking in a really obvious way, imo.

I wish lawyers didn't manipulate words (and people) and twist their meanings so much, haha, I feel like it defeats the purpose of the entire field.


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## Santa Gloss (Feb 23, 2015)

> The problem comes in that careers are specifically designed(in general) to minimize risk and maximize profit/efficiency. They try to make crisis happen as infrequently as possible to not jeopardize anything.


Work at a startup. You'll be putting out fires on a regular basis. 



> This makes a problem for this Ti type because they want to experience crisis that require logical solving, but almost no career is like this.


Crisis management is a thing that people do and are paid for. Careers in the emergency room, disaster recovery, helping companies deal with hacker attacks, managing the planning and consequences of environmental crises, etc... all of that requires problem solving in the moment. There's also solving crimes - being a detective, doing forensics, etc. Aside from all that, there are many jobs which require crisis management on a smaller scale. For example, preventing shoplifting in a store. If you actively look for such a career, you'll find it. If you look for mundane jobs/companies and then wonder why you can't solve exciting problems, well... you didn't think things through in advance. 



> They don't actually want the risk involved with a crisis, they just want the rush that comes from solving something within a small time frame and also that matters for others/themselves in their eyes.


I disagree. Risk is fun. I like it when problems have real life consequences and rewards. While I try to solve many problems which have no consequences to me, I do that primarily to finetune my skills and develop my thought process. The rest of the time, I want to solve problems that matter to me. That's where the bigger payoff lies. 

Another point. Minimizing risk is just as exciting. I like taking a crazy situation (real or hypothetical, immediate or one in the distant future) and making everything fall into place. 



> These types may like FPS games heavily(fast paced and analytical) or sports. The hobby needs to be fast paced, engaging, and challenging. Sports and video games are set up in a way where you are always being challenged by others at your skill level. Most hobbies are not like this either as most hobbies are designed for relaxing, many are not against other people.


Hobbies are whatever activities people decide they want to pursue in their spare time. There's no standardized expectation people have to follow.


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## pwowq (Aug 7, 2016)

This topic brought back all the boredom I've suffered doing several years of unemployment, more years employed and 14 years of school-shit.

I'm a highly 'non-intuitive' ISTP. Tried the techfield -> failed because I got bored too often. 

Got a chance to try military life for a year (conscription), got pissed and bored at all friggin REGULATION and RULES. A firefight is extremely regulated, the squad leader only have to memorize things from the manual to deal with everything thrown at the squad. There's no room for out of the box and creativity in the military.

This topic just evokes so much negativity I cannot be constructive. I just go "blääääää" and gtfo.

Today I am a janitor. Best job I've ever had. 300 people rely on me, the functionality of the organisation relies heavily on me getting stuff done, there's no regulation on me, if it works -> it WORKS because of a decisions I made. If it works, I get no complaints. Started 3 years ago, not a single complaint in 3 years. I find it very odd and scary that no one has asked me to motivate decisions and systems I've put in place. Only complaints is my highly non-conformant usage of paid leave days and flexible work hours... _"It looks weird when you come late and go early. Then proceeding to take a few days off here&there. Wtf, you're the damn janitor, right? "_


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## Ronney (Jul 17, 2016)

Agriculture and driving jobs are good for using problem solving and improvisational skils


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## Turi (May 9, 2017)

I really doubt this is a Ti thing, maybe it's an Se thing though - best job I've ever had, was a total drop-kick job working as a kitchenhand at a resort.

All I did was wash dishes, put bins out, clean floors, barbeques etc, general cleaning/maintenance + kitchen duties (no cooking) - very much an introverts job, I barely spoke to anyone, just did the job, loved it.

After every shift, I'd feel like I did something useful - I knew, all day, that if I quit, whole place would fall apart, it was very high pressure at times (physically, mentally.. didn't feel pushed at all).. and I really enjoyed that aspect of it.

I'd knock off, catch the ferry home (worked on an island) and just listen to Explosion In The Sky on my headphones while standing out on the deck just watching the ocean, feeling the rain and seaspray, felt like I was a part of the storm (it was always storming there, for whatever reason)..


I've worked in a law firm, I've worked sales jobs, retail jobs, worked behind bars, worked in call centres, loads of (shitkicker) jobs, and working as a kitchenhand has always been my favourite, by far. Not even close.

Not sure whether this is Ni or Ti or just being an introvert in general, but the position gave me so much time for me to run through problems/issues etc in my head - think about things all day - that I just felt healthy, mentally and physically, whilst employed in that position.
As it is now, I'm so run off my feet, I feel I haven't got any time to sort shit out in my head the way I need to.

Should never have left!


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## Bhathaway (Dec 17, 2016)

Turi said:


> What precisely, do you mean by "too focused on the macro level to associate with Se"?
> I'd love an example.
> 
> Carpentry and construction, well no doubt any type can do this and enjoy it, I think there'd be an argument for both Ti and Te wanting to be the designer/architect here, as well as an argument for basically anyone to want to be the builder etc and see their hard work turn into an actual, tangible, result.
> ...


What I meant by that is an association with S mbti types in general. I really work with ideas and hardly ever reference facts. I am always interested in the concept behind a fact or the concepts behind things when I am interested in something. I guess this could be Ti too in a way, but the way the MBTI talks about intuitives in the dichotomies is more like me than the sensing ones. I think about concepts like free will that are seemingly detached from reality, but have impacts on ethics, metaphysics, etc. I also don't have a compulsion to interact with my physical environment almost ever.

Yeah I've thought about the emergency services before, I think what turned me off was when I looked up firefighters and police men they said that is WAYY more paperwork than you think and way less crisis time than you'd think.

It depends on what you are hired for(in reference to the lawyer thing). If you are a prosecutor, sure. If you are a lawyer for a defendant then you have been hired to keep them out of jail, not follow the law.


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## Bhathaway (Dec 17, 2016)

pwowq said:


> This topic brought back all the boredom I've suffered doing several years of unemployment, more years employed and 14 years of school-shit.
> 
> I'm a highly 'non-intuitive' ISTP. Tried the techfield -> failed because I got bored too often.
> 
> ...


I am in college right now. I've been going through so many different things...sociology, actuarial science, psychology, computer science. It's all so boring... Computer science is a little better because it is still the general model I like- a desired goal and a starting point, then use logic to get from the start to the clear goal desired end result.

Idk it just all doesn't really engage me...it's not fast enough...it's missing something that makes me WANT to do it. It is missing some factor that makes video games playable for me 24-7. I like cleaning things too and it's funny you mentioned that because I've been thinking about being a janitor lol. The only thing that holds me back is I don't have very much to think about right now. Alot of my ethics have been worked out and I have a general world model that hasn't been growing because I havn't found something that I want to know particularly. Nothing stands out like a "I desire to know more about this"...at least not enough to make me read more about it. Most stuff just seems like an endless "This would help to know therefore I will learn about it"...or it falls in the "This is unnecessary information" category. I can't even remember the last time I wanted to know something and immediately spent a bunch of time learning until I understood all of it...hasn't happened since high school. Only thing that I read much of nowadays is mbti just because learning about myself seems useful to find out which hobbies/careers would be good. These 2 recent posts I have made have allowed me to find others like yourself that relate with the boredom and lack of motivation and are hopefully going to lead to me finding something. Already I have found that others in this situations have found a level of satisfaction in problem solving for local organizations and helping people, as well as gotten a better understanding for my usefulness to others(analyzing others and helping them solve their emotional life problems--even if that isn't the usefulness I am particularly looking to have haha).

Do you find you go about your job with a fairly blank mind? Also there is little crisis in a janitor position typically, so how have you managed to not feel bored?


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## Turi (May 9, 2017)

Bhathaway said:


> What I meant by that is an association with S mbti types in general. I really work with ideas and hardly ever reference facts. I am always interested in the concept behind a fact or the concepts behind things when I am interested in something. I guess this could be Ti too in a way, but the way the MBTI talks about intuitives in the dichotomies is more like me than the sensing ones. I think about concepts like free will that are seemingly detached from reality, but have impacts on ethics, metaphysics, etc. I also don't have a compulsion to interact with my physical environment almost ever.
> 
> Yeah I've thought about the emergency services before, I think what turned me off was when I looked up firefighters and police men they said that is WAYY more paperwork than you think and way less crisis time than you'd think.
> 
> It depends on what you are hired for(in reference to the lawyer thing). If you are a prosecutor, sure. If you are a lawyer for a defendant then you have been hired to keep them out of jail, not follow the law.


Re: lawyers - I just disagree and oppose any and all forms of word twisting, manipulation, lies and deceit.
This is likely the reason I'm an absolutely terrible salesman.

Have you had a read of this:
http://personalitycafe.com/myers-briggs-forum/222794-descriptions-mbti-step-ii-facets.html

Might find you resonate more with S than you think.

I find it hard to tell whether my capability to understand, and use, my intuition is a preference - or a skill, as I find I quite enjoy and often times prefer, stereotypically S style things - i.e concrete facts, evidence etc - it's like it fuels my thoughts, so to speak.
Gives me something to mull over, something to question.

Random question - when/if you go to a park, what do you usually find yourself doing?
Been thinking about this lately, as when I take my daughter out to the park, I wind up wanting to - and jumping on the swings - IDGAF that I'm 30 years old. I'm still gonna jump on the swing.

I got to thinking that this would likely be linked to Se, or Ne-Si. 
Se in that, there's a compulsion to "do". Use the swing. It's there, I want a go, I do it. Simple.
Ne-Si in that this idea may be formed from some unconscious link to the past, when I used to love using swings as a kid, I'd always be on them - perhaps it's nostalgia or something compelling me to take action and use it - whenever I'm on a swing, I wind up drifting off into my own little world of thoughts and ideas etc, can't explain it, it's weird - it's not purely physical fun, it's far more than that, to me.

I notice other people - parents included - are content to just let their kid use the swing, they sit on a bench or whatever, or they push their child - I'll push her a few times then jump on the swing next to her, them jump off, push her again, jump back on, etc (if my wife isn't with me).


I just ask you, since you seem sorta iffy on whether you're ISTP or INTP to a degree, figured it was worth seeing what you've got to say.
I realise it's off-topic but I figure there is perhaps something to this kind of behaviour, re: auxiliary functions in an IxTP.


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## Bhathaway (Dec 17, 2016)

Turi said:


> I really doubt this is a Ti thing, maybe it's an Se thing though - best job I've ever had, was a total drop-kick job working as a kitchenhand at a resort.
> 
> All I did was wash dishes, put bins out, clean floors, barbeques etc, general cleaning/maintenance + kitchen duties (no cooking) - very much an introverts job, I barely spoke to anyone, just did the job, loved it.
> 
> ...


Were you saying the problem I'm having is not a Ti thing, or were you saying your enjoyment from your job was not a Ti thing, and was an Se thing? Sorry just couldn't tell what it was referring to.

It sounds pretty nice as a job though haha. One of the things that I relate to from it is your "working through problems in your head" as you work. I LOVE having that happen. The problem of course is finding a problem that I actually care about to work through in my head. It's so nice to feel like you are figuring out a really complex problem in your head that is going to solve a problem that you have been wanting to solve for a long time. In my mind I have this time I was working at walmart and it felt like I was solving boredom..or at least figuring out what produces boredom and analyzing boredom. I had just read a paper of philosophy on boredom and I had reached all of the same conclusions that it had. Sometimes working was a little annoying because at times I have to disengage from my work in order to keep track of all the variables and if then statements in my head haha. This led me to want to be a janitor so I could sort out problems in my head as I work a rudimentary job and don't have to talk to people...but that lack of a problem that I want to solve or analyze produces boredom in me.


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## Turi (May 9, 2017)

Bhathaway said:


> Were you saying the problem I'm having is not a Ti thing, or were you saying your enjoyment from your job was not a Ti thing, and was an Se thing? Sorry just couldn't tell what it was referring to.
> 
> It sounds pretty nice as a job though haha. One of the things that I relate to from it is your "working through problems in your head" as you work. I LOVE having that happen. The problem of course is finding a problem that I actually care about to work through in my head. It's so nice to feel like you are figuring out a really complex problem in your head that is going to solve a problem that you have been wanting to solve for a long time. In my mind I have this time I was working at walmart and it felt like I was solving boredom..or at least figuring out what produces boredom and analyzing boredom. I had just read a paper of philosophy on boredom and I had reached all of the same conclusions that it had. Sometimes working was a little annoying because at times I have to disengage from my work in order to keep track of all the variables and if then statements in my head haha. This led me to want to be a janitor so I could sort out problems in my head as I work a rudimentary job and don't have to talk to people...but that lack of a problem that I want to solve or analyze produces boredom in me.


I was referring to what I was about to say, re: "probably not a Ti thing".

The working through problems in your head thing.. yeah, it's great - I never had to think of a problem I cared enough about - it was always just.. I don't know, there? Just happens?
I don't remember actively thinking of what to think, haha.

In hindsight, I believe most the problems I was thinking of - and solving, in my head, were revolved around either _things _I wanted to get or do - or people .. for _things _etc (i.e how to get a Line6 M13 - I could not pay bills for a week and catch up next pay, or I could try get an acoustic gig over the coming weekend, or I could sell one of my guitars, or I could sell a few pedals, maybe sell some of my books, I could ask my friend if I could come in to his shop on my day off and work half a day, etc etc - you get the idea - constant generation of ideas)..

This kind of thinking branches out into things like if I sell this pedal for X amount, then I'll still have Y amount to go, so I'd need to bla bla bla you get the gist. 
If I get an acoustic gig this weekend, I could set up a tips jar, or I could use the fact I've got a gig at one place to get a gig at another place the following night, etc etc..
Sort of a like a mind-map. Keeps branching out.

Anyway, those ideas wouldn't stop, and after a while, I'd come up with a logical solution, an actual path to follow, in order to get that Line6 M13 _that _weekend - obviously my thoughts weren't revolved around "just save a bit of money each week and you'll be able to buy it outright" - process seems more impulsive than that, logical, but impulsive.
So I'd get to a point where that problem is solved, and be excited about turning it into a reality the second I got home.

For people, it'd be thoughts of how to help out someone I know through a breakup - my mind would wander off with various ideas - ask 'em out for a drink to clear their head? Buy them a lunch? Write 'em a song? Just call them and see if they're alright? etc etc, loads of ideas to help someone through a breakup - then same thing would happen, I'd wind up with a logical solution to the problem, and I'd seek to turn that into a reality - which might be something as simple as combining as many of those ideas together - i.e call them up after work, see how they've been, see if they want to catch up for some lunch on my next day off and ask if they're down to hit some karaoke that night to clear their head.

The above process is where it feels like Ni (synthesise ideas into one best-fit soltution)-Fe (about peoples) to me, but I'm thinking it's likely either Ti-Se (logical problem solving + seeking to turn solutions into reality) or Ti-Ne (logical problem solving, using idea generation/brainstorming as the basis for solutions).


So I mean, jobs where you're afforded that kind of spare time, to just solve problems and have some time to think to yourself, are just amazing, imo.
Get paid to do something that isn't very mentally taxing.. it made me feel like I was an important part of the machine (albeit, one nobody really knew about haha).. and freed my mind up for all the above sorta shit, so much more to it, those were just some tiny examples. 

Having the free mental time/space to go to those places, is simply too good.
ATM, I work in a call centre - worked in a different one for 6 years before this - I have fuckers talking in my headset all day - I do not have the spare time to drift into my own little world in my head, it's driving me fucking insane, haha.


Perhaps Ti doms - or just introverts in general - require that spare mental time/space to keep sane.
Far more than others.
There are people who work in call centres for like 45 years, and have no problems, they love talking to people all day, no free mental time mustn't be a big deal to them, I guess.


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## Drecon (Jun 20, 2016)

Bhathaway said:


> I feel like an intuitive ISTP lol.


And why wouldn't you be? I'm a logical INFJ. If someone would ask me if I would associate more with "thinking" or with "feeling" I would always answer thinking. 

Everyone has intuition. Besides, if Ni would be your tertiary function, it would feel like the place where you would spend the most energy and time. For ISTP's, integrating ideas can be the most rewarding activity out there. 
In fact, I have an ISTP student and he's always discussing ideas and theories. He loves it. 

There's some idea out there that there are "sensing" people and "intuitive" people, but that just doesn't exist. Everyone is both. The real question is what thought processes are behind it. 

As to your question what Ne "does"? Well, it doesn't really "do" anything. It just generates ideas and shares them. That's the thing with intuitive functions. They never produce any tangible results. That's what the other functions are for.


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## Bhathaway (Dec 17, 2016)

Turi said:


> Re: lawyers - I just disagree and oppose any and all forms of word twisting, manipulation, lies and deceit.
> This is likely the reason I'm an absolutely terrible salesman.
> 
> Have you had a read of this:
> ...


Yeah I understand that. It's very snake-like behavior and in alot of ways it makes reality into something that it isn't just to avoid stepping on toes(in my case). I never use it to "get what I want", but I use it to avoid making people upset at me or to avoid blame. It can be an unhealthy behavior at times. I am a little proud of the fact that I can get someone out of a relationship argument though. Seems like a useful skill if I ever say something stupid lol.

My Ti really inhibits my ability to see my auxilliary in my opinion since Ti is abstract logic, therefore in the MBTI Step II facets I relate to abstract more. I am not interested in facts(and recently have rejected them entirely in exchange for pure logic since fact source verification is too much work). I don't use literal words about colors ever when I speak, nor do I find a pull to interact with things in my environment.

For imaginary-realistic I'm not sure which I am particularly. What I see as realistic has always seemed to be different than what others find realistic, as I see logic about perception, ethics, and metaphysics as things that affect everyday life understanding. I tend to not think about things if they have no importance whatsoever, but others also kind of see what I have to say as arbitrary sometimes because it is an abstract level. I'd probably lean imaginitive but I don't see myself as imaginary in the classic expressive sense. It's hard to really spot myself as intuitive 100% because Ti naturally devalues the object to the extreme. It stips away everything imperfect(everything in perception) and then uses the abstract principles and concepts that the relationships of the objects creates, and then uses those to solve problems/make conclusions. Much of the intuitive facets(like conceptual versus practical) and taken care by Ti to become conceptual...as the abstract is inherently conceptual. I don't know how to divorce my Ti understanding from that of an intuitive so that I can see what is intuition and what is introverted thinking.

When I go to a park I tend to become bored. There is no compulsion to interact with things, and I find I have to consciously kind of force myself to interact with nature. For example, I would never lean down and touch a flower and feel it unless it seriously stands out...mabye not even then lol. I don't climb trees and never have. I think I typically just walk around for a while, look at trees and things. I often feel as though I wasted time when I go hiking tbh. My mind wanders and I think about other things unless I'm laying down and relaxing out there. The INTP ISTP split had always been troublesome for me. I lean INTP I think, but this thread was also an indication of the difference between INTPs and myself. I don't like learning for learning's sake. I don't have a scatter brain(sometimes I'll make associations like the Ne train of thought does, but it is rare to my knowledge). In fact I mostly have a blank brain. Nothing interesting to think about lately has made it so that I havn't been thinking much at all...I have already worked out much of the old stuff and now I'm in a sort of limbo where I need information to progress, but I don't desire anything or want to know more about anything in particular. I'm treading water. If you can ask more questions about the auxilliary go for it, cause I want to know which one I am too lol.


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## Bhathaway (Dec 17, 2016)

Turi said:


> I was referring to what I was about to say, re: "probably not a Ti thing".
> 
> The working through problems in your head thing.. yeah, it's great - I never had to think of a problem I cared enough about - it was always just.. I don't know, there? Just happens?
> I don't remember actively thinking of what to think, haha.
> ...


I believe you on your always having an idea there to think about. I think when you want things or you have alot of things going on in your life there is plenty to think about(especially thinking in advance and working out what you will do). When you don't want things and you aren't doing many things, then you stop taking in information and it leads to stagnancy. This is where I am now. Nothing is jumping out at me and making me think "that's interesting I want to know more about that."

Everything you said after that is spot on. I feel the same way about the jobs that aren't mentally tasking and that give your mind room to roam to whatever you need to. I also tend to think in advance about things(I did it with essays alot as I would do things with others) but I'm a terrible planner. I wing it alot, partially because I give it thought in advance. All my planning is done internally like you.

I really just need something I'm interested in so that my auxilliary will come out and play with the new information I'm taking in. Right now it's all just Ti and Fe with those two middle functions doing jack shit. I don't relate to either the brainstorming nor the trying to put it into reality lol.

Also by the problems you were thinking about I see the Fe pretty heavily lol. Definently an INFJ haha.


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## Bhathaway (Dec 17, 2016)

Drecon said:


> And why wouldn't you be? I'm a logical INFJ. If someone would ask me if I would associate more with "thinking" or with "feeling" I would always answer thinking.
> 
> Everyone has intuition. Besides, if Ni would be your tertiary function, it would feel like the place where you would spend the most energy and time. For ISTP's, integrating ideas can be the most rewarding activity out there.
> In fact, I have an ISTP student and he's always discussing ideas and theories. He loves it.
> ...


Ugh @Drecon...you can't do this to me man! Your making the line between ISTP and INTP even blurrier...it was bad enough already lmao!

I guess I just have a terribly poor grasp of my own extroverted percieving function. If an ISTP is also quite intuitive then I am pretty lost on my perceiving functions, though I do seem like I see Si in myself(which would default to INTP)(also this is assuming that visual recognition of similar perceptions is Si and not Se). I am definently a Ti dominant and Fe inferior based on what I have read(though my Fe is more developed than another INTP I know).

I can't determine what would be intuitive cognitive activity and what would be Ti activity because Ti is conceptual and abstract inherently. I don't have gut feelings ever.


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## Grey Wolf (Sep 9, 2017)

I understand what the original post is saying. A perfect world would have no use for Ti. It's about troubleshooting, directly for an ISTP and in a grand, abstract way for an INTP. I think ESTPs and ENTPs crave the chaos and risk a little more, but we Ti doms feel useful when we're solving problems. To be fulfilled in a career we need to find something that offers us those challenges. For ISTPs I think we need something where everyday isn't the same. Do INTPs feel that way? I would imagine putting together abstract theories is more time consuming, so it's less rushed for new problems. New data yes, but not new problems as quickly.


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## Bhathaway (Dec 17, 2016)

Grey Wolf said:


> I understand what the original post is saying. A perfect world would have no use for Ti. It's about troubleshooting, directly for an ISTP and in a grand, abstract way for an INTP. I think ESTPs and ENTPs crave the chaos and risk a little more, but we Ti doms feel useful when we're solving problems. To be fulfilled in a career we need to find something that offers us those challenges. For ISTPs I think we need something where everyday isn't the same. Do INTPs feel that way? I would imagine putting together abstract theories is more time consuming, so it's less rushed for new problems. New data yes, but not new problems as quickly.


I'm not really sure(assuming I'm an INTP). I'd probably like something that changes every day. I can't speak for all INTP because even if I am one, I am wired pretty differently than them and it shows it how it displays. I was most engaged in...and idk if you ever did these...those activities where you and a team would get a bunch of items and then have a comptition for who could build like the best bridge or the tallest structure. You'd have to creatively use the objects and not fall prey to functional fixedness. I always had so much fun with those, where as I dislike how detached the INTP process is. It's not that I dislike the conclusions they make, it's just that it seems like I don't notice as many patterns as them and that I don't produce as many hypothetical theories as them. I don't like just sitting there reading and collecting information like them...I want to need to know the information and then after I'm done collecting it I use to it to solve a problem...or the process of collecting it did solve the problem. It needs to be useful information...and even then if I don't need it currently I won't preeptively read it...that just seems like chasing a carrot endlessly. There is always something more you could preemptively know.


Nothing has been spitting out to my perceiving functions...it's very sad. Either that or my judging functions have determined it all as data already analyzed to the end.


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## Drecon (Jun 20, 2016)

Bhathaway said:


> Ugh @Drecon...you can't do this to me man! Your making the line between ISTP and INTP even blurrier...it was bad enough already lmao!
> 
> I guess I just have a terribly poor grasp of my own extroverted percieving function. If an ISTP is also quite intuitive then I am pretty lost on my perceiving functions, though I do seem like I see Si in myself(which would default to INTP)(also this is assuming that visual recognition of similar perceptions is Si and not Se). I am definently a Ti dominant and Fe inferior based on what I have read(though my Fe is more developed than another INTP I know).
> 
> I can't determine what would be intuitive cognitive activity and what would be Ti activity because Ti is conceptual and abstract inherently. I don't have gut feelings ever.


Sorry 

I have the same with my own Ni to be honest. It doesn't 'DO' anything... it's just... there... 

I've noticed that Ti more about the process where Te is about the goal. I've had a conversation with an INTP where I was like: "yay, we reached the goal!". He was completely in shock though. "Yeah, but we had decided to do it another way. We didn't follow the process we decided on". 
In his book, we had failed the project because we didn't follow our intended method. The INTJ on the other hand, didn't even pick up on what the problem was. The goal was reached, why wasn't the INTP happy?

It's probably not even something you notice. Ti is so much a part of you that it's just present in everything you do. 

The reason I was talking about the "intuitive ISTP" was because everyone has a sensing function and an intuiting function. You might not have developed one of them even. I know it took me until very late to actually develop my Fe, even though it's my secondary function. I just sat in my room all day, not really wanting to interact with people if I could help it. 
Only later, when I started hanging out in groups, but especially when I started teaching, I noticed that I was actually very good at 'reading people'. I always know what they are thinking and can focus on actually using the words that they will accept, instead of repeating the same thing over and over again. 

In the same way it's possible you might not have developed your secondary function. If you enter brainstorming sessions and notice the ideas just seem to flow freely, there might be an INTP lurking underneath. If you're engaging in physical/spatial activities and notice you're performing in them, even though you're new at them, there might be an ISTP in you. 

An ISTP still has Ni and an INTP still has Si. An ISTP philosopher is still an ISTP, even if he spends all his time with his Ni. You could ask yourself if this is healthy behaviour, but that does not change your personality type. (on the other hand, using Ni as an ISTP is normal and healthy. As long as you're not shutting out the outside world)

It's okay to take your time in finding out your type. It's an important question that can lead to a deep understanding of who you could be and how you could use your natural talents to live your life in a way you feel confortable with.


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