# What kind of mind games do INFJs resort to?



## Samari (Jul 12, 2019)

> But then she made the mistake of calling me later that evening to ask if she could just come by and smoke a cigarette and talk about life....an opportunity I surely would've jumped at in the beginning of our relationship. Well, I freaked out on her. I said, "This is what I want you to do. I want you to pretend I'm dead. Can you do that?"
> 
> I just can't seem to be a consistent person socially. I'm either bouncing off the walls, seducing everyone around me, or.....I want them to think I'm dead (and I'm not kidding about that!)


(Ignore me as though I'm dead, but don't grieve. Just forget that I exist, without judgment. And be okay with me crawling back out of the grave six months later to have a cup of tea with you.)


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## AnneM (May 29, 2019)

Samari said:


> (Ignore me as though I'm dead, but don't grieve. Just forget that I exist, without judgment. And be okay with me crawling back out of the grave six months later to have a cup of tea with you.)











Exactly. See, _you_ get it! Except it wouldn't be a cup of tea; it would be a beer (or 5). 

P.S. Make sure you get the username in there when you post quote, or someone might miss your response! Not everyone checks threads as compulsively as I do. :heart:


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## Atraps (Oct 29, 2019)

If their counter type is great at misleading, infjs excel at leading.

Via ming games.

We have an entj man that nominated our current infj guy to his current role. What me and the entj failed to calc is that he would later form a private study group to write a phd doc about ideal leadership using this man as our example.

This infj guy, with quite of few other infj men i know ... they just literally are the perfect leader.

Oh and the perfect follower at the precisely same time too.

We are still being impressed after years of knowing his track rec. its literally hard to believe how hea pulling it all off, but i fuess thats what magnificent ppls skill are sll about then.

... I think he has a very decent wife too. Wise woman. He is street smart and polymathical, but boy is his wise not just just wise. I mean, just whoaaaa. And that excludes not looks. But thats none of our buss. We enjoy them nore than nuff just like they are, together. And kinda happy too Ive seen. Maybe Ill fire him tomorrow so they can spend more time but then again thatd be just the tomorrow - then Id just find him cleaning the tiets again from his need to always DO smt.

He is the antithesis of my unserstsnding if the meaning of the word lazy. Just up n going, non stop

And.

Wimen infjs...

Now this is a subject of its own calibre. This is the ultimate sedctressess. I mean they will just either ply you smoothly into the mysteries of arousing your curiosity and then sex esc it from there. Or they can just about jump on you and literally rip off your clothes buttons or even fabric and juat pull you against a random wall on the sidewalk for as long as you last. And this will be the same woman durong the same hour of the same day. It will go bat shot nuts with them, snap, just like that.

I mean, I liked it but also having a high sex drive led to excessive sex life. Not that, that wouldnt had happened to me during my entire life, all the time, but those were somehow extra spicy, entps and infjs, infjs being the sexiest. And intjs being the most intense.


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## Atraps (Oct 29, 2019)

AnneM.

You see this:

meet someone new that interests me and I actively, almost aggressively, pursue a friendship. I feel like I'm being very genuine and sincere at this point! I pour everything I have into the relationship and verbally assure the person of my affection. It is really waaaay too much. Then, exhausted, I back off and explain my social idiosyncrasies. Now the person has to disregard all my past behavior in order to believe what I'm saying about myself and my limitations. I'm usually quite angry at this point, which the other person does not understand whatsoever. Lots of time goes by while I recharge.....then I feel like going at it again. So, I contact the person and the whole thing starts up anew, but this time with me telling them every step of the way to expect it to come to a full halt again. 

Is what make you stend out in my books of order.

If a woman-girl would have that specific attitude, I literally didnt ever even notice her very existence. There were just wayyyy to plenty to focus at on once. Imagine 10-20-50-100 men all eager to come to meet you. Now which one youd be talking to most prob? The one who is standind there in front of ya taking ctrl of all of that space, right? The one creating the opportunity to make himself known right. Ir at least that person would win the first 2secs. What happened next would determine longer term outcomes.

Anyway. What bothered me was the waaay to much part. I couldnt disag more. For me f.e. I needed THAT to keep things interesting. I needed the max investment to commit. To remain excited. I needed the constant push of my boundaries to feel alive. And. I kinda still do.


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## Lunar Bird (Nov 17, 2019)

I know that my inherent understanding of others would make me really good at mind games, which is why I don't allow myself to go there, even just in imagining it. It's to the point where accidentally manipulating people is a phobia of mine, and others have been able to manipulate me by convincing me, in my low self-esteem, that my motives are off. 

I have a hard time understanding my emotions when I'm around other people (because I feel them more than I feel myself), and this often has me agreeing with somebody, then later realizing that I don't agree and having to backtrack. I know that it looks like I'm being passive aggressive, but I'm trying my hardest to be sincere and people don't usually believe me. What I need to do is to give myself time to process rather than feeling like I have to immediately take a side. But I still don't think that counts as playing games. 

I know that INFJs have great capacity for manipulation, but I also think that most of us hate the idea of controlling somebody like that. So I think that a lot of the stereotype of INFJs playing mind games comes from miscommunication and misunderstanding.


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## AnneM (May 29, 2019)

@Lunar Bird Do you know your enneagram type?


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## Lunar Bird (Nov 17, 2019)

AnneM said:


> @Lunar Bird Do you know your enneagram type?


Funny you would ask when I've just been trying to figure that out. Pretty sure I'm a 5w4.

Edit: Holy crap, yes definitely 5w4 sx. And here I was thinking that the "feeling like an alien", fear of reality, and disembodiment thing came from the INFJ-ness.


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## Semantyx (Sep 13, 2019)

Lunar Bird said:


> I know that my inherent understanding of others would make me really good at mind games, which is why I don't allow myself to go there, even just in imagining it. It's to the point where accidentally manipulating people is a phobia of mine, and others have been able to manipulate me by convincing me, in my low self-esteem, that my motives are off.
> 
> I have a hard time understanding my emotions when I'm around other people (because I feel them more than I feel myself), and this often has me agreeing with somebody, then later realizing that I don't agree and having to backtrack. I know that it looks like I'm being passive aggressive, but I'm trying my hardest to be sincere and people don't usually believe me. What I need to do is to give myself time to process rather than feeling like I have to immediately take a side. But I still don't think that counts as playing games.
> 
> I know that INFJs have great capacity for manipulation, but I also think that most of us hate the idea of controlling somebody like that. So I think that a lot of the stereotype of INFJs playing mind games comes from miscommunication and misunderstanding.


I've been reading all of your posts and it's insane to see how similar we are. When I've taken the Enneagram test I've noticed that 5 is super high on my end, but 9 usually beats it by literally 1 point. 

I knew that after studying MBTI I would find like-minded people, but I am constantly refreshed to see such similar feelings between us. It's just nice to feel that connection. I cannot imagine the pain of some INFJs that feel alone constantly, I hope they work their way through it all.


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## ReliK (Feb 24, 2019)

INFJ's avoid mind-games and manipulations with others for a few different reasons, imo. First, they are excellent at predicting/knowing how a current dynamic will move into the future, and they realize that various mindgames or manipulations just aren't going to be sustainable. They also realize that in robbing another of their more authentic selves via various controls or manipulations, they prevent the bonding and security required for deep psychological intimacy to take place. And that's INFJ treasure, nothing else can match it or feel more rewarding, except perhaps when an ideal manifests in reality equal to or better than, it existed in their minds. Because of this, it's really rare that an INFJ will *waste time* investing any great thought, future plans or emotional exchanges on anyone who isn't going to fit into 'the vision' anyway. 

Of course, not everyone is a chosen romantic interest, friend, etc. We can find ourselves in previously established social-relationships not of our choosing - families, in-laws, co-workers, etc. Usually though, INFJ's are just so hyper aware of future implications from various drama's, fights and hurts.. that INFJ either keeps these people at a very safe and calculated distance.. or if it's too invasive, they find/create a circumstantial niche which allows them and their closest loved ones to be limited in exposure (I've known of 3 older female INFJ's who moved out of state with their spouses and children, to 'get away' from family drama that became too toxic.) They just nothing you out of existence. 

IF an INFJ decides to go to war, if they've analyzed the situation and see no other way out (which is incredibly rare) they go it knowing that a part of them dies, too. It's either through Fe (and being connected to/in touch with whatever injury they launch at the other, so that it is felt in the self as well) or a sense that ones self-ideal has been compromised "you brought me to this point, turned me into a monster, I never wanted this, to see myself this way" and the pain is unbearable. 

This isn't to say that INFJ's are always 'morally above' fucking with others, but I think that just from a functional standpoint.. it's less common than with some other types. Too aware of future implications, too in touch with others emotional state, too rewarded by authentic emotional exchange, too idealistic to accept toxic circumstances with any permanence.

Edit: Ni. While Fe can 'hijack' an INFJ's reactions and behaviors in the moment via merging, as soon as the INFJ steps away and has space, Ni will turn ones internal processes over, around, through and on, accessing unconscious data for symbol, meaning, motive.. while ti analyzes it. Harder to hide from oneself, an underlying motive. Not impossible, but harder. It just occurred to me that this is why INFJ's are notorious for doorslams. Ya ya, every type can and does use it, but I think it was coined in the context of INFJ. Has to do with the Fe hijacking, and needing to put actual physical space between self and other, removing real-time merging but also, any associative stimuli, for INFJ's to uphold their self and preservation. They don't want to actively hurt the other (no matter how deserving) out of future implication, ideal compromising and the very real chance that whatever hurt is launched in real time will only be reabsorbed.


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## Semantyx (Sep 13, 2019)

ReliK said:


> Edit: Ni. While Fe can 'hijack' an INFJ's reactions and behaviors in the moment via merging, as soon as the INFJ steps away and has space, Ni will turn ones internal processes over, around, through and on, accessing unconscious data for symbol, meaning, motive.. while ti analyzes it. Harder to hide from oneself, an underlying motive. Not impossible, but harder. It just occurred to me that this is why INFJ's are notorious for doorslams. Ya ya, every type can and does use it, but I think it was coined in the context of INFJ. Has to do with the Fe hijacking, and needing to put actual physical space between self and other, removing real-time merging but also, any associative stimuli, for INFJ's to uphold their self and preservation. They don't want to actively hurt the other (no matter how deserving) out of future implication, ideal compromising and the very real chance that whatever hurt is launched in real time will only be reabsorbed.


I only highlighted this part for the sake of not making the post longer (in an effort to save space... I'm weird). I cursed out loud reading your post; in shock of course. You're dead on with everything you've said! I KNOW MBTI talks about cognitive functions and all that, but how the hell can you extrapolate with 100% accuracy? This is uncanny. 

I swear... I am constantly getting surprised on PerC; it's probably getting old by now. But I'm having so much fun learning all of this. Jeez, now I gotta show this to my INFJ best friend (practically my twin brother) so we can gush and tear up a bit about all of it haha. 

Thank you for writing this! It is _beyond_ refreshing.

Edit: All I can do is *thank* you? Where. Is. The *love* button?


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## Icuras (12 mo ago)

Sarcasm and mirroring.


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## WraithOfNightmare (Jun 20, 2019)

I am one letter off (INFP) and I know our function stacks are different, but I will nonetheless give some insights as a type that’s kind of similar to INFJs in a number of ways (although we have differences in which we see the world).

I wouldn’t really call it mind games as much as a deliberate way of socializing and reaching to people, but if someone gets into a close relationship with me, there is the subtle and unspoken expectation that I will be one of, if not the primary influence in their lives and their decisions. It is the expectation that when they are not sure what to do or how they should lead their lives, out of different perspectives they’re given, that the most weight if not all weight will be given to the framework I have presented them and used to guide them via my Introverted Feeling function.

To a large extent, I disagree with many online descriptions of Fi being a highly subjective function that doesn’t seem to influence or command the world views of others. That has not been my experience with myself. Yes, it is highly subjective and logical / strictly rational analysis is not my strong suite (although I can be surprisingly analytical and detached over certain issues, even to the surprise of NTs), but anyone whom I would consider having a close bond with, I will seek to influence them with my own way of looking at things. I have also found that it is better to have one or a few dominant influences from people, in which I can have a clearer sense of direction rather than seeking diverse viewpoints for the sake of it.

I wouldn’t call it a mind game, but rather more of an unwritten contract in the sense that to seek a close bond with me is allowing me to be a primary, even paramount influence over your life goals and world view. In this sense, I am more dominant than I appear to be. I rarely tell people to do A and B, but rather state my own beliefs on what should happen and go with “if I were you I would”, “you should probably consider” etc. instead of straight up telling them what to do.

An INFJ in my observation would do something similar, but more along Fe lines. An INFJ would want someone to act in a way that they feel is more conducive towards their sense of social harmony and the shared, collective good.

If we go into the territory of actual mind games, I do admit I slowly back away from people I don’t like and cut contact with them without giving explanations. I’m trying to do less of that, but much like INFJs I would rather not confront unless backed into a corner or I’m just in the mood for it. When dealing with me, even when I’m not saying much, I am actively trying to understand your “Theory of Mind” as well as your values and goals and seeing how compatible they are with mine. If I sense one or many incompatibilities, the chances of forming a close bond with me are slim to none.

With INFJs, a difference I’ve noticed is they’re on average a bit more tolerant of different world views and lifestyle preferences, but what they look out for are incompatibilities in how they think people “should be” and “should behave” so as to fit into their conception of broader peace and social harmony.

When it comes to thinking and intuition, I would say INFJs in terms of their thinking process and their intuition process are more flexible and sharper than mine. Despite my quirks and knowledge in weird subjects, at the end of the day I have very simple and conventional desires in life. INFJs too, but in terms of their intellectual (Ti) and understanding processes (Ni) they go deeper, are more apt to go off the beaten path, and since they’re dominant perceivers whereas we are dominant judgers, internally INFJs are more flexible when it comes to people and things than I am. They want to understand before they know, I’m more apt to wanting to know where I stand and then finding information (Si) to back it up, then use it to guide my life to a desired result (Te).

Due to our 4th functions, INFJs when stressed are more prone to opting out of it all and becoming sensual (Se), while I become more controlling and critical than usual (Te), not to say that normal me isn’t controlling to a degree.

I’ve also had INFJs be passive-aggressive, and I’ve had to figure out what exactly I said to offend them, and although it’s a deeply held value, it’s Fe-based (I’m not measuring up to their standards of how someone should act properly) whereas when I do it it’s because someone has fallen short of my subjective standards of right and wrong (Fi), or maybe, I just don’t like them.

INFJs as a whole tend to be somewhat more emotionally and verbally expressive (Fe).

Ti and Te can sometimes conflict, I find this can be more difficult at times than Fi vs Fe. From my Te perspective, Ti can seem agonizingly slow to make up their minds and go in circles trying to figure out what “makes sense” to them, I’ve also been told by an INFJ that I rely too much on “quick fixes” and am not independent or deep enough of a thinker.

When I’m trying to help my INFJ friend with a problem that’s clearly affecting him emotionally, it feels to me that his equation is much more complex than mine. He wants to solve the problem and do what he feels is right while not rocking the boat too much. For me it’s 1. How can I fulfill my personal values? 2. How do I solve the problem? So a lot of “delicate equations” to him I would be inclined to take much more forceful approaches even if damage is done, as long as the problem is solved and what (I feel like) the right thing’s been done to protect the people from harm.

I notice this to a degree with some other Ti and Fe users, namely xSFJs and xNTPs. With xNTPs due to the influence of Ti and Fe, there are times where I feel more rational than them and I am less emotionally invested than they are. There’s more time spent on logical consistency and they go to great lengths to find it, while I’m more about consistency of results.


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