# Se or Ne?



## BroNerd (Nov 27, 2010)

ESTP or ENTP basically?

I have been back home with my family for a couple days and have been dealing with people who strongly lean towards S.

Here's an example.
I make a subtle and witty joke which some people don't get because they take the joke too literally rather than thinking about it. I know this is a problem many Intuitors have and I feel that Intuitors are the ones who truly appreciate my humor the most..which is the reason why I have so many close friends who are NT/NF. To be fair though, I think the SPs in my life are better at getting these jokes than the all-too-serious SJs. I think SPs are particularly good at picking up on the tone/body language I use. I try to "sound serious" when being sarcastic for a greater effect but I can only act serious and not be serious. As far as I am concerned, no temperament is better at picking on these cues than the SP. NTs and NFs tend to pick up on what I say..SPs tend to pick up on how I say things.

My natural sense of humor is "intellect-based" rather than "charisma-based". The people I can really bounce off of with this humor are Intuitors and I think this is why I get along with some (including an INFJ) very well. 

However, I can play around with the latter kind of humor as well. As I've become more confident in myself, I have seen my charismatic side pop out. It is kind of terrifying to realize the influence I can have over others. I can change a person's mind about something just through an enthusiastic/logical argument style. If I am in "debate mode", I get so caught up in it that I come across as forceful. 

SJ is probably the temperament I have the hardest time getting along with. I can loosen NJs up a lot easier than SJs..but maybe NJs are just less serious to begin with...I also tend to get along really well with SPs. 

I have also been thinking about my thought process. I am not a linear/sequential thinker. I can jump from step 1 to step 50 just like that without even really thinking about the other 48 steps. I am usually quick at finishing exams..even quicker than some of my friends who might have a deeper/better understanding of the subject matter. 

My strength is quick thinking which is why (for many years) I have become one of those really good test takers who doesn't live up to his "potential" academically..but once I got my shit figured out, I started to do better in school. 

I have hedonistic tendencies. I like to take physical risks which excite me but I also feel "well prepared" for them for two reasons.
1.) My ability to adapt..if shit goes wrong, my mind instantly goes into problem-solving mode.
2.) My tendency do research on those risks before taking them to avoid trouble.

This allows me to do "stupid stuff" but still "land on my feet" at the end. 
I do my best to maximize pleasure and minimize pain. 

Basically, I am starting to wonder if my dominant function is actually Ne and not Se..many of my Se-ish behaviors could actually be Ne at work..it is just that many of my ideas involve immersing myself into the real world like an Se. 
What do you guys think?
If anyone has any questions, let me know!


----------



## Nickel (Apr 7, 2010)

I can relate to some of this.



BroNerd said:


> My natural sense of humor is "intellect-based" rather than "charisma-based". The people I can really bounce off of with this humor are Intuitors and I think this is why I get along with some (including an INFJ) very well.


This is true for me too. The thing is, I can bounce off of iNtuitors, but I can't generate the same kind of humour alone.



BroNerd said:


> However, I can play around with the latter kind of humor as well. As I've become more confident in myself, I have seen my charismatic side pop out. *It is kind of terrifying to realize the influence I can have over others.* I can change a person's mind about something just through an enthusiastic/logical argument style. If I am in "debate mode", I get so caught up in it that I come across as forceful.


True for me too. I can especially relate to the bolded part - I was amazed when I realized that I'm the "trend-setter" in my group of friends. I get into "debate mode" too when someone states opinion as fact, and I come across as logical and enthusiastic, and yes, sometimes too forceful. xD 



BroNerd said:


> I like to take physical risks which excite me but I also feel "well prepared" for them for two reasons.
> 1.) My ability to adapt..if shit goes wrong, my mind instantly goes into problem-solving mode.
> 2.) My tendency do research on those risks before taking them to avoid trouble.


I can relate to this. I still think about things before I do them. I wouldn't put my life in serious danger - I like living too much. :laughing:


Here's a question: Does your mind ever just shut off and you just live and experience the immediate moment? 

Are you always thinking of new ideas, new things to do?


----------



## Fizz (Nov 13, 2010)

I mentioned in another thread about my humor, like myself, it adapts. Depending upon whom I am around, I will pick up on their type of humor and use it back on them. I can't really think of examples, more than half of my posts on this site are jokes or just something I thought was funny. So far, it usually goes over swimmingly. Of course some people can't pick up on my jokes, that will happen, c'est la vie.

There isn't a specific type on the forum that understands my humor. I also know there are quite a lot of mistyped people anyway. They mistake N for meaning unique, weird, smart, or clever and S for common, dumb/unintellectual, slow, etc. It doesn't work like that. A lot of people try to categorize things into simply "understood" functions. Just like T is associated with cold-hearted assholes and F is associated with crybabies. They're not true, it's just what the association is. Things are much more complicated than some are willing to accept.


----------



## BroNerd (Nov 27, 2010)

Rapunzel said:


> I can relate to some of this.
> 
> 
> This is true for me too. The thing is, I can bounce off of iNtuitors, but I can't generate the same kind of humour alone.
> ...


I am not necessarily good at creating off-beat humor on my own. Rather, I am good at bouncing off what people say..my humor is often based on something someone already said or did.

I like small talk because I can make it light-hearted and humorous. 

To answer your question, I do allow myself to just live and experience the present moment. However, it is almost always a conscious decision to do so. I can shut my mind off if I think it is reasonable to do so. This is what made the trip to Myrtle Beach I went on with my friends enjoyable..I was able to just live in the moment and have fun.

I enjoy thinking of new ideas but the ones which really make me passionate are those which can be applied to reality..thus they become new things to do.

I am still going with ESTP for myself.


----------



## Fizz (Nov 13, 2010)

BroNerd said:


> *I am not necessarily good at creating off-beat humor. Rather, I am good at bouncing off what people say..my humor is often based on something someone already said or did. I like small talk sometimes because I can make it light-hearted and humorous. *
> 
> To answer your question, I do allow myself to just live and experience the present moment. However, it is almost always a conscious decision to do so. I can shut my mind off if I think it is reasonable to do so. This is what made the trip to Myrtle Beach I went on with my friends enjoyable..I was able to just live in the moment and have fun.
> 
> I enjoy thinking of new ideas but the ones which really make me passionate are those which can be applied to reality..thus they become new things to do.


People are the best at inspiring jokes for me. A lot of posters in this thread set themselves up for something stupid I have to say.

I also think about the future as that is human nature. Unlike other animals, we can imagine our own death when it's not imminent in the moment. Dogs don't lick their balls and contemplate their future, they're just in the moment, licking their balls. Quite Se on their part. But Se in humans doesn't mean we have a one track mind that stays in the present completely. The Ni which is our last function seems to have been compared to the function that fucks up everything the other functions strived for.


----------



## BroNerd (Nov 27, 2010)

Fizz said:


> People are the best at inspiring jokes for me. A lot of posters in this thread set themselves up for something stupid I have to say.
> 
> I also think about the future as that is human nature. Unlike other animals, we can imagine our own death when it's not imminent in the moment. Dogs don't lick their balls and contemplate their future, they're just in the moment, licking their balls. Quite Se on their part. But Se in humans doesn't mean we have a one track mind that stays in the present completely. The Ni which is our last function seems to have been compared to the function that fucks up everything the other functions strived for.


Well said, Fizz! No human would be able to survive without that ability. Dogs have other things going for them..things I can't say I envy too much given what humans have. I also think Se is future-oriented in some respect..the ability to see opportunities and to know how to take them on effectively.


----------



## Scruffy (Aug 17, 2009)

I've been playing with the idea of:

Ne = Why?
Se = How?


----------



## Fizz (Nov 13, 2010)

scruffy said:


> i've been playing with the idea of:
> 
> Ne = why?
> Se = how?


TL;DR


:tongue:


----------



## Kelly617 (May 25, 2011)

BREAK IT DOWN! *do do do do* XD Anywhoooz...

_ESTP or ENTP basically?

I have been back home with my family for a couple days and have been dealing with people who strongly lean towards S.

Here's an example.
I make a subtle and witty joke which some people don't get because they take the joke too literally rather than thinking about it. I know this is a problem many Intuitors have and I feel that Intuitors are the ones who truly appreciate my humor the most..which is the reason why I have so many close friends who are NT/NF. To be fair though, I think the SPs in my life are better at getting these jokes than the all-too-serious SJs. I think SPs are particularly good at picking up on the tone/body language I use. I try to "sound serious" when being sarcastic for a greater effect but I can only act serious and not be serious. As far as I am concerned, no temperament is better at picking on these cues than the SP. NTs and NFs tend to pick up on what I say..SPs tend to pick up on how I say things._

I'm VERY BAD at picking up body language signs. If you don't use your words, I won't hear you. Physical/slapstick comedy doesn't appeal to me in the slightest. I also don't use my body much. I tend to sit in one position, and I don't touch people or invoke physical contact when interacting. I rely almost solely on my verbal abilities to get a point across or tell a joke. 

_My natural sense of humor is "intellect-based" rather than "charisma-based". The people I can really bounce off of with this humor are Intuitors and I think this is why I get along with some (including an INFJ) very well. 

However, I can play around with the latter kind of humor as well. As I've become more confident in myself, I have seen my charismatic side pop out. It is kind of terrifying to realize the influence I can have over others. I can change a person's mind about something just through an enthusiastic/logical argument style. If I am in "debate mode", I get so caught up in it that I come across as forceful._

This is an Ne trait, I believe. I'm an intelligent, logical person, but all of my super powers come from my charisma. *sparkles* 

_SJ is probably the temperament I have the hardest time getting along with. I can loosen NJs up a lot easier than SJs..but maybe NJs are just less serious to begin with...I also tend to get along really well with SPs._

SJ's drive me BATTY. Though, honestly, I don't outright DISLIKE them. I don't really outright DISLIKE anyone based on their personality type...that's more based on how much of an asshole they are to me and my friends. XD But yeah, SJ's are really hard to connect with. I find I have more trouble with the ESTJ's and the ISFJ's than anyone else. I get along great with INFJ's and ESFP's though (obviously I'm generalizing a wee bit here)! 

_I have also been thinking about my thought process. I am not a linear/sequential thinker. I can jump from step 1 to step 50 just like that without even really thinking about the other 48 steps. I am usually quick at finishing exams..even quicker than some of my friends who might have a deeper/better understanding of the subject matter.

My strength is quick thinking which is why (for many years) I have become one of those really good test takers who doesn't live up to his "potential" academically..but once I got my shit figured out, I started to do better in school._

I'm pretty sure this is an NT quality. I'm exactly the same way. I think ridiculously fast on my toes and I need very little to no background information on the subject to get at the very least a passing grade. This is why I studied so little in school...I simply didn't need to.

_I have hedonistic tendencies. I like to take physical risks which excite me but I also feel "well prepared" for them for two reasons.
1.) My ability to adapt..if shit goes wrong, my mind instantly goes into problem-solving mode.
2.) My tendency do research on those risks before taking them to avoid trouble.

This allows me to do "stupid stuff" but still "land on my feet" at the end. 
I do my best to maximize pleasure and minimize pain._

This is an Se quality. I enjoy taking cognitive/intellectual risks, but not physical ones.

_Basically, I am starting to wonder if my dominant function is actually Ne and not Se..many of my Se-ish behaviors could actually be Ne at work..it is just that many of my ideas involve immersing myself into the real world like an Se. 
What do you guys think?
If anyone has any questions, let me know!_

I have a conclusion! I promise! Oh lookie, here it is! XD

I'd say you're fairly well balanced, to be honest. There's a lot of Se there, but you've got some strong Ne qualities too. I identify with a lot of what you said (I'm quite balanced as well, 60% "N" to 40% "S" in most cases). Though I think the sensitivity to body language and the hedonistic/physical risk-taking tendencies sway you more toward Se than Ne? I'm going to guess ESTP, but then, whatever you decide in the end is ultimately what you are!


----------



## BroNerd (Nov 27, 2010)

Thanks Kelly for your input!
Right now, I am thinking ESTP for myself.
I think Se, given its quick nature, can really be an asset when it comes to understanding concepts..especially those which have some kind of practical benefit.


----------



## themartyparade (Nov 7, 2010)

Scruffy said:


> I've been playing with the idea of:
> 
> Ne = Why?
> Se = How?


I'm a sensor, yet "why" is probably the word I use the most.


----------



## Scruffy (Aug 17, 2009)

Yeah, it's more of an idea; expanding on the "detail" vs "big picture" stereotypes of S/N. Personally, I do not consider the S/N barrier that huge, with only slight manners to differentiate.

Ne seeks to understand why something is done, made, created, or processed.
Se seeks to know how something is made, done, created or processed.

Why is something created; through what process is something created. Both can deal in abstracts, and both can function with details. The only difference is the orientation to their data.

Both are essential to each other, and I believe that these two form a very good system of thought.


----------



## esidebill (May 25, 2011)

Scruffy said:


> I've been playing with the idea of:
> 
> Ne = Why?
> Se = How?


If I had a dime for every time I said why as a kid...


----------



## firedell (Aug 5, 2009)

You type like a ESTP.


----------



## themartyparade (Nov 7, 2010)

Scruffy said:


> Yeah, it's more of an idea; expanding on the "detail" vs "big picture" stereotypes of S/N. Personally, I do not consider the S/N barrier that huge, with only slight manners to differentiate.
> 
> Ne seeks to understand why something is done, made, created, or processed.
> Se seeks to know how something is made, done, created or processed.
> ...


I don't care much for "how" something is made, done, whatever. I think the idea behind it all is much more interesting than how it's done.

However, I do know I'm a sensor 'cause I wish I had some examples to go by here.


----------



## Neon Knight (Aug 11, 2010)

esidebill said:


> If I had a dime for every time I said why as a kid...


Add the frustration of not getting an answer or when you got "because I said so/that's the way it is" as your answer.


----------



## BroNerd (Nov 27, 2010)

Scruffy said:


> Ne seeks to understand why something is done, made, created, or processed.
> Se seeks to know how something is made, done, created or processed.


I would say I seek these two about equally..but perhaps the why more than the how because knowing how something is made can really help a lot in understanding why something is made.


----------



## BroNerd (Nov 27, 2010)

I am really starting to think Ne over Se for me for a few reasons.

1.) I am absent-minded.
2.) If I am interested in something, I tend to get too much "in my head" despite my extroverted nature.
3.) I am good at generating what-if situations and getting the "big picture" of a situation. 
4.) Many of my talents (which I talked about in the OP) seem more Ne-based than Se-based...can Ne have a hedonistic edge to it?


----------



## Nickel (Apr 7, 2010)

Nooo, BroNerd, don't leave meee. :tongue:

Those all sound like Ne to me, but the definition of Ne is so fluid.


----------



## BroNerd (Nov 27, 2010)

Rapunzel said:


> Nooo, BroNerd, don't leave meee. :tongue:
> 
> Those all sound like Ne to me, but the definition of Ne is so fluid.


I don't wanna leave you either..but I'll only be one letter away if I make the move,


----------



## electricky (Feb 18, 2011)

BroNerd said:


> I am really starting to think Ne over Se for me for a few reasons.
> 1.) I am absent-minded.
> 2.) If I am interested in something, I tend to get too much "in my head" despite my extroverted nature.
> 3.) I am good at generating what-if situations and getting the "big picture" of a situation.
> 4.) Many of my talents (which I talked about in the OP) seem more Ne-based than Se-based...can Ne have a hedonistic edge to it?


(1) not sure about that one...
(2) could be blamed on Ti as well...
(3) what you are "good at" is only a very fuzzy indication of anything
(4) I don't think Se or Ne are really hedonistic



Rapunzel said:


> Those all sound like Ne to me, but the definition of Ne is so fluid.


Yes.... the definitions for the functions are a bit all over the place (and of course with the definition for Ne, it is this problem times a million :wink, which is what makes the question of simply Se or Ne tricky by itself. It may need to be approached more indirectly, such as by telling if your style is more directing or informing, or simply if you seem more S or N, and stuff like that.


----------



## Aleksei (Apr 3, 2010)

I just have one question:

Is a pencil anything like a banana? If so, how?


----------



## firedell (Aug 5, 2009)

Aleksei said:


> I just have one question:
> 
> Is a pencil anything like a banana? If so, how?


I want to answer this! The only way they are similar is that they (some pencils) are both yellow and black, though sometimes when not ripe the banana can look green. That is all I can think of.


----------



## etherealuntouaswithin (Dec 7, 2010)

Aleksei said:


> I just have one question:
> 
> Is a pencil anything like a banana? If so, how?


Both can be used for masturbatory purposes? and sexual innuendo? (though the pencil is a weird choice for shit like that.)


----------



## Aleksei (Apr 3, 2010)

Okay, both of you are typed correctly. Let's see what BroNerd responds.


----------



## BroNerd (Nov 27, 2010)

Aleksei said:


> I just have one question:
> 
> Is a pencil anything like a banana? If so, how?


Pencils and bananas are both from trees.


----------



## firedell (Aug 5, 2009)

BroNerd said:


> Pencils and bananas are both from trees.


Oh, well that would make sense too...


----------



## etherealuntouaswithin (Dec 7, 2010)

BroNerd said:


> Pencils and bananas are both from trees.


Hadn't thought of that...


----------



## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

My first thought was "not really...ugh this question is annoying." 

Then I thought "they're both yellow" and after "they're both used in penis jokes." 

I'm probably just tired, though.


----------



## electricky (Feb 18, 2011)

Aleksei said:


> I just have one question:
> Is a pencil anything like a banana? If so, how?


I have to wonder if by asking this question if you are starting to look at more of mental capacities than preferences for seeing the world. And even with strong mental capacities and one can come up with many ways to answer this, somehow the answer(s) that we happen to put down here are going to be some strong indication of type? Are you doing that on purpose because the selection could be an indication of preference? And does this sort of thing even connect to Se or Ne?


Does this qualify as an ENTP response? :wink:


----------



## firedell (Aug 5, 2009)

Here is another one I thought of! They both have zinc!


----------



## Empurple (May 20, 2010)

Tell me if this seems right: In terms of problem solving, an Se dominant type would tend to address the problem directly, jumping into the middle of it to sort things with hands on, getting physically involved, only formulating an idea as the situation demands, whereas an Ne dominant type would immediately begin formulating an idea - out loud - presenting it to those around, only getting involved physically if need arises in order to better formulate the idea.


----------



## Aleksei (Apr 3, 2010)

Empurple said:


> Tell me if this seems right: In terms of problem solving, an Se dominant type would tend to address the problem directly, jumping into the middle of it to sort things with hands on, getting physically involved, only formulating an idea as the situation demands, whereas an Ne dominant type would immediately begin formulating an idea - out loud - presenting it to those around, only getting involved physically if need arises in order to better formulate the idea.


The physical aspect of that is being overdone a bit. Rather, an Se-dom would quickly review all the options readily available to solve the problem and then get to solving it using whatever's at hand, whereas an Ne-dom would start formulating off-kilter ideas and suggestions to try to find a better way to solve the problem.


----------



## Aleksei (Apr 3, 2010)

BroNerd said:


> Pencils and bananas are both from trees.


Sounds quite a bit more Ti than Ne, but it fits ENTP.


----------



## Empurple (May 20, 2010)

Aleksei said:


> The physical aspect of that is being overdone a bit. Rather, an Se-dom would quickly review all the options readily available to solve the problem and then get to solving it using whatever's at hand, whereas an Ne-dom would start formulating off-kilter ideas and suggestions to try to find a better way to solve the problem.


Yeah, I was going to qualify my idea by saying it was kind of creating polarities, taking Ne and Se to their extremes. I think you're right. I would never suggest Se is mindless...just more oriented toward hands-on approach than a speculative or theoretical approach.

Also, I think you said it well concerning Se "using whatever is available" vs Ne "formulating off-kilter" notions. Perhaps Se would say, "Keep it simple, stupid." I wish I could think of what saying might capture Ne's approach.


----------



## Karen (Jul 17, 2009)

Aleksei said:


> I just have one question:
> 
> Is a pencil anything like a banana? If so, how?


My first thought was that they can both be used for pointing at someone to make a point. Does that mean I'll have to change to ENTJ? 

I just went through "Am I ESFP or ENFP?" I finally decided on ENFP because I'm into alternative possibilities and not much into mastering or dealing with physicality, other than just having fun in the S realm.


----------



## BroNerd (Nov 27, 2010)

Heh heh..sorry for bringing up this old thread again but I am wondering if anyone here thinks INTP is a possible type for me? [Based on my posts and other things]

I took a legit MBTI assessment recently, answered the questions honestly and tested as an INTP [admittedly with I being my weakest preference and being moderate/strong in the other three.]

Here is where I related to E on the test.
1.) The need to talk about things to people..I like to get advice from others before making decisions for instance.
2.) Can do well with strangers if I feel I have to..not something I love but can handle myself well-I see it as an opportunity to make new friends and that keeps me optimistic/chipper/comfortable.
3.) Sometimes have "foot-in-mouth" syndrome..speaking before truly thinking about the consequences of what I have to say are.
4.) Enjoy parties a lot and am energized by then..especially if there is good conversation/good drinking, for me, the mind needs to be stimulated. 

Here is where I related to I on the test.
1.) I really value my alone time. 
2.) Overall, kind of uncomfortable around strangers and it takes time for me to warm up to others..warm up to some people faster than others.
3.) Private..I may seem more "open" on this forum but it is mostly for the sake of personality type, 
4.) Better at one-on-one conversations than group conversations.

Ti and Ne are my bros, :wink: Can't tell which one is the bigger bro.


----------



## BroNerd (Nov 27, 2010)

*shrug*..thought about it, and like always, I find myself back in ENTP land.
I think it is reasonable to think that Extroverts can also find certain kinds of social situations to be boring.
My ESTP dad is the same way. He'll be eager to leave a party and find something else to do if he doesn't find the party to be fun/interesting.
While I have seen some Introverted types (in particular, ISFJs) go to even the most boring parties with enthusiasm..
Also Ne>Ti and Fe>Si for me.

I am not sure what it is in terms of personality types then..I would be tempted to see NT since Keirsey seems to consider this temperament to abhor useless small talk more than the other ones. However, I have seen that same tendency in ESTPs and even some ESTJ's..so perhaps it is a T thing.


----------

