# Does ENFP's Fe look like ENFJ's Fe or INFJ's Fe?



## Tellus (Dec 30, 2012)

ENFP's Fe is mostly unconscious, but they do use this function.


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## INTJake (Oct 1, 2015)

Isn't it very hard to see them use it? How would an ENFP use Fe?


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## Tellus (Dec 30, 2012)

Vikinq said:


> Isn't it very hard to see them use it? How would an ENFP use Fe?


Watch Ellen or Craig Ferguson (both are ENFPs). All social interactions involve Fe. MBTI does not claim that Feeling is always combined with Introversion for ENFP. However, it is harder for the ENFP to keep Fe in consciousness.


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## ae1905 (Jun 7, 2014)




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## lavendersnow (Jan 13, 2016)

From observations alone, I don't believe so. 

From the perspective of the functions and their positions, absolutely not.


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## Blue Ribbon (Sep 4, 2016)

Tellus said:


> ENFP's Fe is mostly unconscious, but they do use this function.


This poll is stupid. I'm sorry but ENFPs Fe is unconscious. We can't control it like ENFJ or INFJ. If I could have control over it, I wouldn't be an ENFP. 

For ENFPs, Fe is a fall back mechanism for Fi. It's something that works unconsciously to further my Ne or Fi. It's like... it shows up to make sure that I don't end up hurting someone because I'm using Fi - making sure I'm not too self absrbed. Also, I recognise that different people are different and try to behave nicely to everyone. I try to make a fun social environment where everyone can be themselves. That's the extent of my Fe. 

The main difference between Fe and Fi is that Fe is focused externally. So, while an ENFJ or an INFJ is trying to read other people, see the best way to behave and trying to take care of the emotional atmosphere, the ENFP is just doing their thing and relating everything and everyone to themselves - the exact opposites. Both Fi and Fe are opposites in the way they're alligned and they empathise and sociailse in different ways despite being feeling functions. 

An example: I got into a fight with my ENFJ friend over our clashing views on the death penalty. I told her that I was against it. It was barbaric and not the solution to any problems while she said that she can relate to the public and the families of the victims and so it was justified. 

Fe is harmony seeking - it upholds the sentiments of the majority. 

Fi is authenticity seeking - it upholds the rights of the individual.

You can see how ENFPs can't use Fe in the same way as any of the FJ types since doing so would clash completely with Fi. Fe is a fallback mechanism so that we don't end up hurting others in our pursuit of our wants. It's like a snap into reality. Fe types experience the same with Fi - it makes sure they don't neglect themselves while taking care of others.


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## Tellus (Dec 30, 2012)

lavendersnow said:


> From observations alone, I don't believe so.
> 
> From the perspective of the functions and their positions, absolutely not.


You don't think ENFP's Fe can be processed consciously, right? So ENFPs never say "she really behaved badly today"? Of course they do... and that is a conscious thought. 

My view corresponds with Vladimir Yermak's view on unconscious functions / vital functions:

School of System Socionics


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## Tellus (Dec 30, 2012)

Witch of Certainty said:


> This poll is stupid. I'm sorry but ENFPs Fe is unconscious. We can't control it like ENFJ or INFJ. If I could have control over it, I wouldn't be an ENFP.


It is not always unconscious, not even in MBTI/Jungian theory. My view corresponds with socionist Vladimir Yermak's view. See link in the previous post. The "unconscious" functions are actually "preconscious".

"Can the vital character of information processing be called non-conscious? I don’t think so. We are conscious of our vital track. But awareness comes after the reaction, even though just a fraction of a second later. Such automatic reactions are called by some psychologists «preconscious» — something in-between consciousness and subconsciousness. It is difficult to plunge into thinking over the information of vital track information elements. You get pushed out to the mental track as if a cork from a bottle and you begin to think over (process) only such information elements that correspond to mental track functions."




> For ENFPs, Fe is a fall back mechanism for Fi. It's something that works unconsciously to further my Ne or Fi. It's like... it shows up to make sure that I don't end up hurting someone because I'm using Fi - making sure I'm not too self absrbed. Also, I recognise that different people are different and try to behave nicely to everyone. I try to make a fun social environment where everyone can be themselves. That's the extent of my Fe.
> The main difference between Fe and Fi is that Fe is focused externally. So, while an ENFJ or an INFJ is trying to read other people, see the best way to behave and trying to take care of the emotional atmosphere, the ENFP is just doing their thing and relating everything and everyone to themselves - the exact opposites. Both Fi and Fe are opposites in the way they're alligned and they empathise and sociailse in different ways despite being feeling functions.
> An example: I got into a fight with my ENFJ friend over our clashing views on the death penalty. I told her that I was against it. It was barbaric and not the solution to any problems while she said that she can relate to the public and the families of the victims and so it was justified.
> Fe is harmony seeking - it upholds the sentiments of the majority.
> Fi is authenticity seeking - it upholds the rights of the individual.


Yes


> You can see how ENFPs can't use Fe in the same way as any of the FJ types since doing so would clash completely with Fi. Fe is a fallback mechanism so that we don't end up hurting others in our pursuit of our wants. It's like a snap into reality. Fe types experience the same with Fi - it makes sure they don't neglect themselves while taking care of others.


I don't agree with you that Fe clashes with Fi. These two functions complement each other. It is Te that clashes with Fi.


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## lavendersnow (Jan 13, 2016)

Tellus said:


> You don't think ENFP's Fe can be processed consciously, right? So ENFPs never say "she really behaved badly today"? Of course they do... and that is a conscious thought.
> 
> My view corresponds with Vladimir Yermak's view on unconscious functions / vital functions:
> 
> School of System Socionics


Why bother quote me if you're not inviting a discussion? But are in fact, telling me what to think?


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## Tellus (Dec 30, 2012)

lavendersnow said:


> Why bother quote me if you're not inviting a discussion? But are in fact, telling me what to think?


I am telling you what *I* think.


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## Sour Roses (Dec 30, 2015)

It's so incredibly annoying when people oversimplify the functions!

Just because it gets expressed, doesn't mean it's an extroverted function.

Just because it gets withheld, doesn't mean it's an introverted function.



To roll with your example type:

ENFP's express with Fi. The internal becomes external due to the medium of communication.

Their Fi values are based on what they individually consider to be morally appropriate and just. Their emotions are totally independent and based off of their own inner experience. 
They tend to feel for others when others may be feeling something they may have felt before themselves.
NFP's are very charming because of the manner in which they express their own feelings.

None of that is Fe. It's Fi, expressed.


Fe values are based on external standards. That can be just one person, or a whole group. Fe values are flexible and accepting. Yet over time, the Fe user can assimilate some certain values into themselves that they then project outwardly to others as important. That is not Fi either, just because they hold it.

Fe emotions are based on the atmosphere between the two or more people. Their happiness becomes our happiness, their anger our anger. Unless we dislike the person, in which case we reject their emotions and either tune them out or become confrontational about it. 
Fe users tend to feel for others when others are in a strong enough grip of pitiable emotion for it to register with the Fe user.



Please read more on the subject and stop reducing functions to a misinterpreted version of E vs I.


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## Blue Ribbon (Sep 4, 2016)

Tellus said:


> It is not always unconscious, not even in MBTI/Jungian theory. My view corresponds with socionist Vladimir Yermak's view. See link in the previous post. The "unconscious" functions are actually "preconscious".
> 
> "Can the vital character of information processing be called non-conscious? I don’t think so. We are conscious of our vital track. But awareness comes after the reaction, even though just a fraction of a second later. Such automatic reactions are called by some psychologists «preconscious» — something in-between consciousness and subconsciousness. It is difficult to plunge into thinking over the information of vital track information elements. You get pushed out to the mental track as if a cork from a bottle and you begin to think over (process) only such information elements that correspond to mental track functions."
> 
> ...


I agree with you. But Te doesn't clash with Fi. My Te acts as a motivation, a fire for my Fi.

Fi and Fe work in opposing directions. They do clash. 

Here's how Fe works: 

Fe is all about creating an atmosphere of shared values. Fe wants everyone to agree - to want the same things. It's accommodating for this reason. It's ready to compromise on the individual's values (Fi) to achieve this. 'Everyone else wants this. Therefore I want it too.' It uses Ti to analyse other people's wants and motivations to see why they like the things they do. Michael Pierce describes this axis like a person in a foreign country trying to learn the customs and language and trying to fit in as well as they can. I completely agree with this. 

Here's Fi: 

Fi understands that people are different and unique and that they want different things. Shared values is a silly concept. If we're all to get along well with each other, we need to follow common rules, established by Te. For Fi, conforming to other's values (Fe) is the death of the individual. Michael Pierce describes the Fi/Te axis as an individual out alone in the cold who has to fend for himself. His focus is on keeping warm and surviving. 

Have you ever observed the clash of Fe vs Fi? I have. I don't always see eye to eye with Fe users. But with Te users, there's never that issue. Te users understand the nature of Fi and Fi users understand the nature of Te. Yes they're opposing in nature, but they compliment each other nicely. Fi and Fe have entirely different motivations for showing empathy and different styles of socialization. 

My point is that ENFPs Fe doesn't resemble that of INFJs or ENFJs. Fi is the ethics of emotions and Fe is the ethics of relationships. They are two different things. Fi has more in common with Ti than Fe.


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## ShatteredGlass (Sep 12, 2015)

If an ENFP uses Fe, it looks like an ENFP's Fe......

xxFPs are defined by Fi.


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## Angra Mainyu (Jun 5, 2016)

Blue Ribbon said:


> An example: I got into a fight with my ENFJ friend over our clashing views on the death penalty. I told her that I was against it. It was barbaric and not the solution to any problems while she said that she can relate to the public and the families of the victims and so it was justified.
> 
> Fe is harmony seeking - it upholds the sentiments of the majority.
> 
> ...


Wait, I am confused now. I thought this was Fe thing. I am against death penalty, too. Reason behind this is that the convict might had made stupid mistake and his life will be lost even though there is a slight chance he will be "reborn" again and might even start living his life fully. I sympathise with family which was harmed, but still think that death penalty won't solve anything.

Can you elaborate this furthermore? Thanks.


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## Endologic (Feb 14, 2015)

Blue Ribbon said:


> This poll is stupid. I'm sorry but ENFPs Fe is unconscious. We can't control it like ENFJ or INFJ. If I could have control over it, I wouldn't be an ENFP.
> 
> For ENFPs, Fe is a fall back mechanism for Fi. It's something that works unconsciously to further my Ne or Fi. It's like... it shows up to make sure that I don't end up hurting someone because I'm using Fi - making sure I'm not too self absrbed. Also, I recognise that different people are different and try to behave nicely to everyone. I try to make a fun social environment where everyone can be themselves. That's the extent of my Fe.
> 
> ...


I agree with most of this, but it's not unconscious, it's nonexistent. Your F is already determined to be introverted. You can't have 2 Fs.


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## Blue Ribbon (Sep 4, 2016)

Lord Steva said:


> Wait, I am confused now. I thought this was Fe thing. I am against death penalty, too. Reason behind this is that the convict might had made stupid mistake and his life will be lost even though there is a slight chance he will be "reborn" again and might even start living his life fully. I sympathise with family which was harmed, but still think that death penalty won't solve anything.
> 
> Can you elaborate this furthermore? Thanks.


Well, I'm not talking about the actual statement - more like the reasoning behind it. All types can be against the death penalty. What my friend was saying was that it's justified because the masses are enraged and they want it - Fe. 

Any type can have any opinion or view point. Yours is also justified but I think the context is different.


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## Blue Ribbon (Sep 4, 2016)

Emologic said:


> I agree with most of this, but it's not unconscious, it's nonexistent. Your F is already determined to be introverted. You can't have 2 Fs.


I was talking about the socionics model. I assumed the OP was talking about it too, since MBTI doesn't acknowledge ENFP's Fe. In the socionics model, ENFPs have very good Fe.


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## Tellus (Dec 30, 2012)

Rebecca.M said:


> It's so incredibly annoying when people oversimplify the functions!
> Just because it gets expressed, doesn't mean it's an extroverted function.
> Just because it gets withheld, doesn't mean it's an introverted function.


Which comment are you referring to?



> To roll with your example type:
> ENFP's express with Fi. The internal becomes external due to the medium of communication.
> Their Fi values are based on what they individually consider to be morally appropriate and just. Their emotions are totally independent and based off of their own inner experience.
> They tend to feel for others when others may be feeling something they may have felt before themselves.
> ...


I don't agree with this at all. Fe and Fi interact constantly. As soon as you are expressing your emotions/feelings, then you are using Fe.

And all types use both functions!

And emotion/feelings is not the same thing as Fi or Fe! Fi and Fe corresponds to "emotional cognition".


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## Tellus (Dec 30, 2012)

Blue Ribbon said:


> I agree with you. But Te doesn't clash with Fi. My Te acts as a motivation, a fire for my Fi.
> 
> Fi and Fe work in opposing directions. They do clash.
> 
> ...


Fi and Ti complement each other, yes, which is obvious in Socionics Model A. But Fi hasn't more in common with Ti than Fe. Both Fi and Fe process emotions, and Ti doesn't.

You are right that "Fe users" and "Fi users" sometimes clash, but that is not what I am talking about. I meant your own Fe and Fi functions. They don't clash with each other.


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