# Is it possible for coward Fi users to be mistaken as Fe?



## keziarhh (Nov 18, 2014)

Most people say that Fi users would fight for their beliefs and bla bla bla. But do all Fi users have a strong bravery to rebel any kind of rules that unfit to them? Do all Fi users have an enormous bravery? Is it not possible for Fi users who are a coward, who are highly aware of social expectation and morality, to be mistaken as Fe, in the surface?


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## aendern (Dec 28, 2013)

Yes I'm sure that lots of people who misunderstand MBTi could confuse lots of things.


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## ferroequinologist (Jul 27, 2012)

keziarhh said:


> Most people say that Fi users would fight for their beliefs and bla bla bla. But do all Fi users have a strong bravery to rebel any kind of rules that unfit to them? Do all Fi users have an enormous bravery? Is it not possible for Fi users who are a coward, who are highly aware of social expectation and morality, to be mistaken as Fe, in the surface?


All Fi types are cowards. 

Calling someone a "coward" or "mean" or "stupid" or whatnot is extraverging feelings, i.e. Fe. So, if one is not doing that, then they are not exhibiting Fe. Fe is not about being socially aware of expectation, etc. Extraverting feeling judgments--attempting to bring those values to bear on other people--shaming, encouraging, ridiculing, applauding--all those are Fe things. Are those the behavior of a coward? I didn't think so, so what you are describing is not possible. Fi is about bringing judgments to bear on self, not on others, it's not about making others do what you want them to do or feel what you want them to feel. 

Fi types can attempt to do such things but only in a round-about, indirect manner (through Se or Ne self-expression--and even then, it's mostly to make self feel better, not others), but seldom directly. To do so directly would mean Fe, not Fi. Of course, it can be done, but not without some sort of psychic damage to the Fi type--shame, guilt, etc. Force one to do it too much, and the damage can be quite significant indeed. So, in the end, all of us Fi types are cowards, because we are unwilling to bring our feelings judgments to bear on others. Make of that what you will... In any case, I don't know where you get this "most people" bit... ...it sounds like these "most people" don't understand how these things work...


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## Acadia (Mar 20, 2014)

keziarhh said:


> Most people say that Fi users would fight for their beliefs and bla bla bla. But do all Fi users have a strong bravery to rebel any kind of rules that unfit to them? Do all Fi users have an enormous bravery? Is it not possible for Fi users who are a coward, who are highly aware of social expectation and morality, to be mistaken as Fe, in the surface?


I think I'm frequently mistaken as Fe, but not because I'm a coward and not because I'm aware of morality, but because I am a fighter. If somebody steps on something that I find wrong and I can *back up through evidence* {that's Te} I'll turn around and I'll tell them very directly. I'm rebellious in some ways and I'm brave about the things I believe in, but I'm not preachy. If someone's wrong and I can prove it, then I tell them and I prove it. Nevertheless, I don't necessarily want others to believe the same things I do. I'm neutral on a lot of topics and value a mix of opinions on the subjects. Other ones I can't let sit because it's so evident that people are using falsifiable evidence to stake a claim. 

I'm also a 7w8 enneagram. If you haven't looked into it, I recommend it, because it explains this tremendous level of variation in personality types. I act more like an ISTP or even an ESTP at times than I do an ISFP, because I'm interested in pursuing adventurous things and I have the willpower to get it done. I don't care at _all_ what other people think of me, unless they're someone very close to me. I frequently ignore my feelings to the point that it is either not evident at all {if you're not familiar with cognitive functions} or incredibly evident that I'm an introverted feeler. I don't appear to be as in tune with myself as I am. An ISFP enneagram 2, 4, or 9 would be a creature of a much different color so to speak.

Basically, any type can be a coward, and any type can be brave. When it comes to Fi, it becomes a matter of what you personally value, and how you live your life according to your values.


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## Verity3 (Nov 15, 2014)

I was just watching a Gumball episode ("The Sweaters," Season 2 Episode 36) and I was like, "Yes! This is what it's like living as a Fi dom in a Te/Fe world."

I hear the words coming out of my mouth, but not only is no one listening to me, they are informing me that I am saying the exact opposite. (Of course, from my perspective I am the "normal" one :tongue: )











The Amazing World of Gumball S2E36 "The Sweaters" / Recap - TV Tropes

This is my life :facepalm:


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## Acadia (Mar 20, 2014)

Verity3 said:


> I was just watching a Gumball episode ("The Sweaters," Season 2 Episode 36) and I was like, "Yes! This is what it's like living as a Fi dom in a Te/Fe world."
> 
> I hear the words coming out of my mouth, but not only is no one listening to me, they are informing me that I am saying the exact opposite. (Of course, from my perspective I am the "normal" one :tongue: )
> 
> ...


I'd never seen any clips of this show until right now and man I've gotta say it looks pretty good!


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## keziarhh (Nov 18, 2014)

ferroequinologist said:


> All Fi types are cowards.
> 
> Calling someone a "coward" or "mean" or "stupid" or whatnot is extraverging feelings, i.e. Fe. So, if one is not doing that, then they are not exhibiting Fe. Fe is not about being socially aware of expectation, etc. Extraverting feeling judgments--attempting to bring those values to bear on other people--shaming, encouraging, ridiculing, applauding--all those are Fe things. Are those the behavior of a coward? I didn't think so, so what you are describing is not possible. Fi is about bringing judgments to bear on self, not on others, it's not about making others do what you want them to do or feel what you want them to feel.
> 
> Fi types can attempt to do such things but only in a round-about, indirect manner (through Se or Ne self-expression--and even then, it's mostly to make self feel better, not others), but seldom directly. To do so directly would mean Fe, not Fi. Of course, it can be done, but not without some sort of psychic damage to the Fi type--shame, guilt, etc. Force one to do it too much, and the damage can be quite significant indeed. So, in the end, all of us Fi types are cowards, because we are unwilling to bring our feelings judgments to bear on others. Make of that what you will... In any case, I don't know where you get this "most people" bit... ...it sounds like these "most people" don't understand how these things work...


What I meant was that Fi users like rebelling to any kind of things that unfit with their inner values. e.g. an Fi user doesn't like studying. Will she/he rebel his/her parents who are dominant and harsh?


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## keziarhh (Nov 18, 2014)

heartofpompeii said:


> I think I'm frequently mistaken as Fe, but not because I'm a coward and not because I'm aware of morality, but because I am a fighter. If somebody steps on something that I find wrong and I can *back up through evidence* {that's Te} I'll turn around and I'll tell them very directly. I'm rebellious in some ways and I'm brave about the things I believe in, but I'm not preachy. If someone's wrong and I can prove it, then I tell them and I prove it. Nevertheless, I don't necessarily want others to believe the same things I do. I'm neutral on a lot of topics and value a mix of opinions on the subjects. Other ones I can't let sit because it's so evident that people are using falsifiable evidence to stake a claim.
> 
> I'm also a 7w8 enneagram. If you haven't looked into it, I recommend it, because it explains this tremendous level of variation in personality types. I act more like an ISTP or even an ESTP at times than I do an ISFP, because I'm interested in pursuing adventurous things and I have the willpower to get it done. I don't care at _all_ what other people think of me, unless they're someone very close to me. I frequently ignore my feelings to the point that it is either not evident at all {if you're not familiar with cognitive functions} or incredibly evident that I'm an introverted feeler. I don't appear to be as in tune with myself as I am. An ISFP enneagram 2, 4, or 9 would be a creature of a much different color so to speak.
> 
> Basically, any type can be a coward, and any type can be brave. When it comes to Fi, it becomes a matter of what you personally value, and how you live your life according to your values.


How come you're mistaken as ISTP? You don't act like a Ti, you act more like Te. Ti probably will analyze the situation first and most of them are not really passionate about what's right and wrong.

I know exactly that al types can be brave/ coward, but do all Fi users really have that strong will to fight for their own beliefs? Do they never hurt by what people say about them?


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## ferroequinologist (Jul 27, 2012)

keziarhh said:


> What I meant was that Fi users like rebelling to any kind of things that unfit with their inner values. e.g. an Fi user doesn't like studying. Will she/he rebel his/her parents who are dominant and harsh?


You probably want to learn about passive-aggressive behavior. I think also, you have to take into account the relationship. When I was a kid, I loved my parents, and didn't really want to disappoint them--except my mom, in some ways, she really got under my skin, so I would be passive-aggressive about things like that--purposely do things badly, or not do them, or not talk to her, or whatnot--but I would avoid conflict until I was pushed. I think this is something to keep in mind. Fi won't push back until it is absolutely cornered, but then, the lash-out will be with Se and Te, and can be quite violent--and aggressive. But at least when younger, one has to be pushed pretty far to act out. The first line of defense is the passive-aggressive behavior (and frequently, a certain smug satisfaction that they are irritating the other without the other understanding why they are irritated--at least that was me as a youngster)


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## ferroequinologist (Jul 27, 2012)

keziarhh said:


> I know exactly that al types can be brave/ coward, but do all Fi users really have that strong will to fight for their own beliefs? Do they never hurt by what people say about them?


I'm not her, but I think at least on the last point, she'd say she's similar. But I try to imagine being "offended" or getting my feelings hurt... and I don't really see it. OK, one can upset me in the moment. The biggest thing for me is to call me out on incompetence. I hate being incompetent, and that's like the worst insult to me, but even then... it is all superficial. Internally, I don't feel it. I may give an emotional response, but honestly, if there's not truth to it, it is quickly and easily brushed aside. Kids used to make fun of my scars, and those insults hurt the worst, simply because those scars were real, were obvious and definitely disfiguring, so it could hurt--it certainly made me not want to deal with people who cared about them. But to be honest, I'm my own worst critic. I don't know anybody who could be as critical of me as I am, and those that try all go about it the wrong way, and focus on the wrong things. Insulting my character or my looks or my manhood or getting all emotionally ugly on me is like noise on deaf ears. It just doesn't affect me. I know who I am, and it is obvious I upset them somehow, and they are trying to get back at me--no harm to me at all--which, with some people, tends to make them even more violent--but I can't help that. That's their problem, not mine. 

But I don't feel a need to "fight" for my beliefs. Why? If you want to push me, and push me, I might respond, but it is so much easier to just ignore you or walk away, and leave you frothing at the mouth. No need to engage unless there is no other recourse. 

Here's something I've noticed on PerC, and looking back on discussions I've had in the past on other forums. I like to discuss things, and may be willing to share something I think is important and true. Here's my position x. Now, I tend to offer my opinion or perspective quite forcibly, because... well, because if I find it worth talking about, it means something, and if it means something, I cannot pretend to be "neutral" or "objective." I consider both of those to be a fiction. Nobody is objective or neutral on anything. We all have our own perspective--we are, after all ,only individuals sitting in one point in the universe. So feigning neutrality or objectivity is just a lie people tell themselves, and the lie is revealed in how they almost always respond to me--quite vociferously. Usually, it seems, they are looking for an argument or even a fight. But all I'm looking for is a sharing of perspectives. When it becomes obvious to me that they don't care about that, but just want to either prove me wrong or convince me they're right, I'm gone. I don't have a need to prove myself or prove my point, and don't like it when others do that to me. I will share my perspective--forcibly maybe--but I don't care if you agree or not. I do care, however, that you allow me to think what I think, even if you think I'm wrong. 

So, summarizing (tl;dr version), Fi doesn't generally feel a need to fight for its beliefs. It just wants the freedom to have them. Infringe on that, and depending on circumstances and who is doing it, the response may be anything from external compliance to passive-aggressive behavior to outright (aggressive) resistance.


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## Ksara (Feb 13, 2014)

keziarhh said:


> What I meant was that Fi users like rebelling to any kind of things that unfit with their inner values. e.g. an Fi user doesn't like studying. Will she/he rebel his/her parents who are dominant and harsh?


Both Fi and Fe users can rebel. Both can be passive and keep the peace. Yes both can be mistaken for each other when observed on the outside.

But they are different.

Fi defines it's values on the inside, and then acts in accordance to these values. I is measuring (and so judging) how close or far away it is from it's ideal. It measures objects in relation to the self, how close it is to these values. It is concerned with what it finds as agreeable/disagreeable or like/dislike. Fi is not concerned with judging others as being right/wrong good/bad, it judges the relationship distance between them and that person in degrees of good/bad or right/wrong or like/dislike, etc., and will proceed to either close or increase this distance. Because Fi is internally defined, they treat others as having unique values. To judge others externally they place themselves in the persons shoes.

Fe acts in a particular social role that then defines their character. They understand social positions, what behaviours are appropriate for these positions, and from there can judge either themselves or others in accordance to these social positions. They also use feed back from how others react to them to affirm their social position. A social position/role is externally defined, such as mother, daughter, partner, boss, misfit, rebel, etc., and particular behaviours place a person in these categories. Because Fe is externally defined they will place judgments on others, placing them in a particular social role and will decide if that is agreeable or not (a may attempt to correct another's behaviour to place them in the preferred social role)

Fi is a good person on the inside, so they commit a good deed.
Fe commits a good deed, and so is a good person.

Both have led to the same actions observed in the world.

Fi feels the rules enforced on them are wrong and so resists.
Fe identifies as the rebel and so resists the rules put on them

Again both will be observed as taking the same actions, but for very different reasons (though these are shallow examples)


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## Kynx (Feb 6, 2012)

Some Fe-Fi examples. 

Fe type to me: Look at you, stood with your hands in your pockets. 

Me: What's wrong with my hands being in my pockets? 

Fe type: Well, it's rude! 

Me: Oh... really? 
What's rude about it? 

Fe type: It just is. 

Me: Okaay.
*takes hands out of pockets*

I didn't dig my heels in, insisting on keeping my hands in my pockets. It didn't really seem important to me, either way. It simply wasn't worth it. 
The main thing is, I couldn't see the reasoning behind the value judgement. Therefore, it doesn't stick and become part of my own value system. I will likely do the same thing again, not because I'm rebelling against it, just because I won't automatically think of it as being an issue. 

Another example, when I did actually stubbornly dig my heels in. Bear in mind, I was only 10 years old and the time.

Our school was competing against other schools at sports/races. I was wearing my new running shoes/trainers for the occasion. I'd already realised that I could run faster wearing these, as opposed to the old flimsy black plimsolls that were so commonly worn in school sports. I was told to put some plimsolls on before I ran, because I would run better in plimsolls. I point blank refused, insisting that I could run faster in my running shoes. The headteacher/principal came over and said I wouldn't run until I put some plimsolls on. So, I stated "OK, I won't run then." 
My peers and teachers began putting the pressure on, saying how I was letting the team down, etc. Which just made me more stubborn because they were trying to impose their opinions on me and didn't seem to have a valid reason for it. 
Eventually, the headteacher caved in and begrudgingly, let me run in my trainers. 

I came 2nd btw. My headteacher just said "You'd have won if you had worn those plimsolls. " 

:laughing:
Yeah, you're welcome! 

What appeared to be completely selfish behaviour on my part, was in fact me also trying to do my best for the team. I just disagreed on how I could do it. I wouldn't have insisted on wearing them if I believed that they would impair my running ability. I'd already noticed that I seemed to perform better when I ran in these trainers and I stood by my judgement, regardless of everyone else's judgement. 
Nowadays, I probably wouldn't be quite so stubborn, or I'd be able to explain my reasoning better and others could understand where I'm coming from. 

Almost every judgement I make is evaluated in terms of worth. I don't fight against anything just for the sake of it. Only when I think it's important enough to risk upsetting people and usually, I don't think it's that important. When I do believe it's important, I don't care about other people's opinions unless I can understand their reasoning. 

So I often likely appear as Fe, because I don't think something is important enough to make a fuss about it, as in the first example. 

At times, such as in the second example, I think something is important and then my Fi will be obvious. 

On the whole I'm no more selfish than the next person. An Fe type is essentially doing exactly the same thing, just from a different standpoint. They feel comfortable doing what they believe is right, it's just that it happens to align with the general consensus, its not because they are more considerate of others


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## Notus Asphodelus (Jan 20, 2015)

As though everyone is thinking the same way or has made decision based on the same circumstances and motivated by the same thing. LOL! That is hilarious.


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## Grandmaster Yoda (Jan 18, 2014)

Fe users aren't cowards, we just care.


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## Owner Of A Lonely Heart (Jun 5, 2012)

ferroequinologist said:


> *All Fi types are cowards. *
> 
> Calling someone a "coward" or "mean" or "stupid" or whatnot is extraverging feelings, i.e. Fe. So, if one is not doing that, then they are not exhibiting Fe. Fe is not about being socially aware of expectation, etc. Extraverting feeling judgments--attempting to bring those values to bear on other people--shaming, encouraging, ridiculing, applauding--all those are Fe things. Are those the behavior of a coward? I didn't think so, so what you are describing is not possible. Fi is about bringing judgments to bear on self, not on others, it's not about making others do what you want them to do or feel what you want them to feel.
> 
> *Fi types can attempt to do such things but only in a round-about, indirect manner* (through Se or Ne self-expression--and even then, it's mostly to make self feel better, not others), but seldom directly. To do so directly would mean Fe, not Fi. Of course, it can be done, *but not without some sort of psychic damage to the Fi type--shame, guilt, etc. *Force one to do it too much, and the damage can be quite significant indeed. So, in the end, all of us Fi types are cowards, because we are unwilling to bring our feelings judgments to bear on others. Make of that what you will... In any case, I don't know where you get this "most people" bit... ...it sounds like these "most people" don't understand how these things work...


Excuse me? I think you stereotyping a bit too much there. You have not played a mafia game with a Fi-dom like myself. I can be very direct at times without feeling guilty for being or doing so. 

And please don't say "All types of such and such personality type are one way or another to me that's a load of crap. I mean especially with how peoples' personality types are not always the stereotypical, cookie cutter form. Or how people's enneagrams and myers briggs could clash or contradict each other. I'm sorry; you just can't put everyone into individual little stereotypical boxes. I've tried and ultimately failed.


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## Acadia (Mar 20, 2014)

keziarhh said:


> How come you're mistaken as ISTP? You don't act like a Ti, you act more like Te. Ti probably will analyze the situation first and most of them are not really passionate about what's right and wrong.
> 
> I know exactly that al types can be brave/ coward, but do all Fi users really have that strong will to fight for their own beliefs? Do they never hurt by what people say about them?


I should clarify; when somebody doesn't know MBTI the response is normally "you don't seem like a feeler." but yeah no, cognitively Fi/Te is certainly apparent, especially in my early years. 

In my own head, I used to mistype as ISTP because I assumed that asking questions/general curiosity = Ti...and it's not, haha. I've learned a lot over the past year or so. 

I think @ferroequinologist summed up what I wanted to say pretty well; but in my own words I'll say that if it's somebody close to me, I can get hurt by their words. Like the criticisms of my ISTJ dad don't really bother me, but for some reason I'm very sensitive about my mom's perspective on me. A complete stranger? They won't bug me unless they say something that resonates with something very deep inside me. They can certainly get me to argue; and I can think that their opinion is wrong, but it's not the individual so much as it is the source of the problem {Ni} which I cannot access and therefore {normally} cannot change alone--so why get upset about it? 

I've a conservation biologist so on certain issues I think yes, I've certainly got to try--but like if people are trolling on the internet? why is that worth my time? I've got bigger fish to fry.


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## KraChZiMan (Mar 23, 2013)

OP's question is hardly even related to MBTI.

Since when is a human quality such as bravery restricted to few cognitive functions or MBTI types?

Not in the world I live in, anyways.


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## Verity3 (Nov 15, 2014)

My first instinct was to take offense at the OP's use of the word "coward" too, but I don't think he meant it that way. Rather than "you Fi cowards," I think he was referring to himself, and asking could he still possibly be more Fi than Fe, since the stereotype seems to be that Fi is so brave.

And I took @ferroequinologist 's comment as hyperbole to make the point: no, Fi typically is not looking for a fight. Not that it is incapable of such; just that that is not always the purpose of nonconformity.

Personally I don't enjoy conflict at all. It just seems to find me a lot. :/ So with all that practice, I've learned to roll up my sleeves and deal with it. Conflict itself is not bad; like pain, it alerts us to a problem. When people's best interests are not the same, we need to recognize that and address it. Preferably, IMO, with cooperation and compromise if at all possible.

Depending on what the individual Fi user's values are, that can even involve a lot of self-sacrifice. So, OP, if you're putting others' interests first you can still be Fi or Fe. And if you're feeling conflict-avoidant you can still be Fi or Fe  Read Ksara's post above, or other threads that compare and contrast Fi and Fe to figure out which fits you better.


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## ferroequinologist (Jul 27, 2012)

Verity3 said:


> And I took @_ferroequinologist_ 's comment as hyperbole to make the point: no, Fi typically is not looking for a fight. Not that it is incapable of such; just that that is not always the purpose of nonconformity.
> .


Thank you. I'm sort of surprised other people missed that. But yes, I was being ironic--hyperbole to make a point. And I wasn't going to defend/explain myself to people who didn't get it. Actually, it was hyperbole, irony and a bit of generalization. I could write for hours explaining things like extreme stress, how competitive ISFPs are, vs. INFPs, etc. Just too much, so I just focused on Fi itself. And let the chips fall where they may...


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## Captain Mclain (Feb 22, 2014)

emberfly said:


> Yes I'm sure that lots of people who misunderstand MBTi could confuse lots of things.


This! xD


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## Captain Mclain (Feb 22, 2014)

KraChZiMan said:


> OP's question is hardly even related to MBTI.
> 
> Since when is a human quality such as bravery restricted to few cognitive functions or MBTI types?
> 
> Not in the world I live in, anyways.


Lol aint you the hipster boi.  It depends of definition of bravery and in the way first post worded the question it was about "Do all Fi users never care about what people say about them? And about life goal, do they focus more on about what they want rather than humanity or other people?". A very defined way and not just "bravery". And this should be kinda true from my experiences because Fi can be kinda selective. In a way be able to "not care" about what people think of them because what matters is what Fi user feel about themselves. This is of course when putting Fe and Fi at entirely different processes.


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## KraChZiMan (Mar 23, 2013)

Captain Mclain said:


> Lol aint you the hipster boi.  It depends of definition of bravery and in the way first post worded the question it was about "Do all Fi users never care about what people say about them? And about life goal, do they focus more on about what they want rather than humanity or other people?". A very defined way and not just "bravery". And this should be kinda true from my experiences because Fi can be kinda selective. In a way be able to "not care" about what people think of them because what matters is what Fi user feel about themselves. This is of course when putting Fe and Fi at entirely different processes.


Alrighty then. So you meant to discuss the classical "Fi and egoistical behaviour" question?

I think I have said it before in other threads that Fi types can only understand abstract notions such as human traits through relating it back to some experiences they have had in their lives, or witnessed it somewhere. Fi is just not that naturally attuned to such traits, there always has to be a connection with the topic somehow. Fi is just different that way, much different than Ti, which can exhibit very true, natural and pure curiosity even without knowing much about the topic. The problem with Fi approach is that there needs to be an abundance of experiencing different situations, emotions and issues, or else Fi types become stubbornly naive flower children who can never have anything relevant to say when people speak about important things around them, or even worse, become absolutely apathetic and neglecting to other people and turn into egoistical "let's make this one about me, guys" maniacs.


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## Captain Mclain (Feb 22, 2014)

KraChZiMan said:


> Alrighty then. So you meant to discuss the classical "Fi and egoistical behaviour" question?
> 
> I think I have said it before in other threads that Fi types can only understand abstract notions such as human traits through relating it back to some experiences they have had in their lives, or witnessed it somewhere. Fi is just not that naturally attuned to such traits, there always has to be a connection with the topic somehow. Fi is just different that way, much different than Ti, which can exhibit very true, natural and pure curiosity even without knowing much about the topic. The problem with Fi approach is that there needs to be an abundance of experiencing different situations, emotions and issues, or else Fi types become stubbornly naive flower children who can never have anything relevant to say when people speak about important things around them, or even worse, become absolutely apathetic and neglecting to other people and turn into egoistical "let's make this one about me, guys" maniacs.


Ye one thing I have to say is. When a Fi really take time for you they can make you feel happy about yourselves like forever while Fe just do it as long you are around them or have contact with them. Fi know no such bounds


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## uncertain (May 26, 2012)

keziarhh said:


> Most people say that Fi users would fight for their beliefs and bla bla bla. But do all Fi users have a strong bravery to rebel any kind of rules that unfit to them? Do all Fi users have an enormous bravery? Is it not possible for Fi users who are a coward, who are highly aware of social expectation and morality, to be mistaken as Fe, in the surface?


Sometimes it's not even that conscious. I can do something against the norm without realizing my rebellion. Sometimes I don't care, or the norms are stupid. Then when I_ really_ want to do it, I just go ahead without thinking about things or people's words. But in general, I am pretty cowardice. That gives me a lot of shame and guilt.

Yeah I think Fi can be mistaken as Fe because of following, but still, there are subtle differences between the two types when this happens. Fe-users follow the norms not because they are cowards, but because they believe that this is what they should do, so they might appear more positive about it. Fe can be pretty brave.



> Do all Fi users never care about what people say about them? And about life goal, do they focus more on about what they want rather than humanity or other people? (I've been typed as an Fe user because I'm focusing more about other people than myself).


I wouldn't say never. Life goal? Depends on people. There are definitely Fi-users who focus on "humanity" or helping the world. In some ways I don't really care about myself, like well-being or physical matters, or happiness, sometimes even how I feel about this and that. I am pretty easy-going and there are lots of things relating to myself (mostly physical things or materials) I don't really care, and I rather see people happy/feel fine. I randomly do random things for people.

In other ways I feel like caring only about myself, like careers, financial securities, where to live etc. So... 90%+ of my thoughts now are about myself.

While I can think about "humanity," in reality, I approach people on individual-level, not escalating it to the level of "human race." I mean, I don't make them into one single object in real life approach even though I might do so when I am thinking things or the world in my head. I still generalize things though, but that usually feel less real...


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## ElliCat (May 4, 2014)

keziarhh said:


> What I meant was that Fi users like rebelling to any kind of things that unfit with their inner values. e.g. an Fi user doesn't like studying. Will she/he rebel his/her parents who are dominant and harsh?


I think that likes/dislikes are different to Fi's core values. I don't especially like studying either - exams, assignments, being forced to study things I'm not interested in, deadlines, group work with people I dislike, no thanks! - but I'll do it because I value independence and self-development. In this case studying will lead me to new skills and better-paid career opportunities, which will let me contribute towards my household's income and pay for things that I like to do. 

In your case, with strict parents involved - I guess it will depend more on the principle of the matter. Does their behaviour go against what you believe to be right? Will openly rebelling satisfy you, or will it just create more of a mess for you? "Bravery" and "cowardice" might be the wrong concepts here, or at least I don't relate as a Fi user. Sometimes when I was younger I'd kick up a stink if my mother pushed me too hard, but I think that more often I'd either act passive-aggressively or just say "yes okay fine" and go do what I was always going to do anyway. 



keziarhh said:


> I know exactly that al types can be brave/ coward, but do all Fi users really have that strong will to fight for their own beliefs? Do they never hurt by what people say about them?


Not always. Not when I feel it's pointless, like the other person will never change their mind. I do feel rotten, though, when I fail to stand up for something that I think I probably should. Not because I worry about being perceived as a coward, but because I feel like I'm compromising my values. In reality it's because conflict drains me and I would much rather preserve my energy to spend on more worthwhile things, but yeah, part of me certainly feels like I'm betraying myself.

I feel hurt if the criticism hits too close to home. If it's something that I suspect about myself and haven't quite come to terms with yet, or that I'm working on but seem to be making no progress with. Or if it is a negative judgement coming from someone whose opinion I value... that always sucks too. Of course I'd like to be seen well by the people I like and respect. On the other hand, if I know the criticism is bullshit, I'm just going to laugh it off because why would I be hurt by something that has no basis in reality? Especially when I know it's just the other person projecting, or making wild leaps because they're blinded by their own feelings. So I guess both things are true at once: we care and we also don't care. Just depends on the individual in question.


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## KraChZiMan (Mar 23, 2013)

Captain Mclain said:


> Ye one thing I have to say is. When a Fi really take time for you they can make you feel happy about yourselves like forever while Fe just do it as long you are around them or have contact with them. Fi know no such bounds


Well I get the feeling that this relies on your own personal experiences with people. For example, it's hard to define how people understand "making someone happy". Some people are happy by long inspirational deep personal talks, while some people are happy simply when you respect them and don't judge.


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## Captain Mclain (Feb 22, 2014)

KraChZiMan said:


> Well I get the feeling that this relies on your own personal experiences with people. For example, it's hard to define how people understand "making someone happy". Some people are happy by long inspirational deep personal talks, while some people are happy simply when you respect them and don't judge.


But its not hard to understand what make a person happy. You notice when that happened. At least thats how I see it. And not to mix happy with peace. Happy is an burst or gaining of positive emotions and peace is a state of mind.


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## KraChZiMan (Mar 23, 2013)

Captain Mclain said:


> But its not hard to understand what make a person happy. You notice when that happened. At least thats how I see it. And not to mix happy with peace. Happy is an burst or gaining of positive emotions and peace is a state of mind.


Yes, you're correct.

But when someone sitting right next to me says that happiness is when there's enough Nutella for 3 slices of bread, that's equally correct too.

What's that? It means that happiness can't be defined.

Besides, do you really want to live in a world where happiness, love, hate etc. can be defined with 5-9 words? That only happens in some Nazi regime!


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## Captain Mclain (Feb 22, 2014)

KraChZiMan said:


> Yes, you're correct.
> 
> But when someone sitting right next to me says that happiness is when there's enough Nutella for 3 slices of bread, that's equally correct too.
> 
> ...


Ye, an drug addict might say happiness is when you got loads of drugs at home. That is what i think of when someone base their happiness of candy and sugar. Gaining good emotions I think is a good definition. ;p only 3 words so I would be ok


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## KraChZiMan (Mar 23, 2013)

Captain Mclain said:


> Ye, an drug addict might say happiness is when you got loads of drugs at home. That is what i think of when someone base their happiness of candy and sugar. Gaining good emotions I think is a good definition. ;p only 3 words so I would be ok


Almost getting there, but I don't think that good emotions always equal happiness. 

Easy example: masturbation brings good emotions, but it doesn't bring happiness :laughing:


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