# Men think they're the shit...



## Sara Torailles (Dec 14, 2010)

I can't help but look at how the URL received the title:

"Men think they're shit." :tongue:


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## Sporadic Aura (Sep 13, 2009)

I never know for sure if a girl is into me unless she straight up tells me or gives an obvious sign (obvious as in starts making out with me randomly)....


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## Sara Torailles (Dec 14, 2010)

StElmosDream said:


> If PUA, negging, ' worlds greatest' mentalities did not keep getting results people might stop using them or relying on materialism to sell absence of personality.


Look at how well Cosmopolitan sells. Just because something gives you advice that makes them money, doesn't necessarily mean it's good advice.



Sporadic Aura said:


> I never know for sure if a girl is into me unless she straight up tells me or gives an obvious sign (obvious as in starts making out with me randomly)....


Yeah, it's really complicated. I can only make some guess based on the information I know from how I would express subtle flirting, but even then it could be construed as being nice. Most women really don't know how confusing they are when it comes to giving signals, and how much effort guys have to make in actually interpreting them.

I mean, there was this girl who approached me recently and I think she might have been slightly interested since she unsuccessfully tried to make small talk, and asked me about some non-conspicuous habit I had.

Of course, if you looked at my previous post, it might be a problem of mine. There was this woman in the high school I used to go to, who would keep telling me flat out I was beautiful in a very flirtatious tone, much to my embarrassment. And I still doubted that there was any sort of interest! She was one of those women who was absolutely gorgeous, and most guys and girls would put her as a perfect 10. And most people probably didn't even think of me as a sexual being... My face looks very effeminate, and I have an ectomorphic build. Plus, people tend to associate me with childlike tendencies and innocence.

The concept of "leagues" as someone put it on here, can be total bullshit, in my opinion.


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## StElmosDream (May 26, 2012)

Torai said:


> Look at how well Cosmopolitan sells. Just because something gives you advice that makes them money, doesn't necessarily mean it's good advice.


I agree 100% although things are never as 'black and white'... random figures here but it seems that guys are told that for every 5-15 'I am man, hear me roar' displays someone will respond (e.g. when less inhibited in a bar or club) and some will even confuse arrogance for confidence, seeking the 'warm fuzzy side beneath' and being suspicious of those who seem 'too nice'... as if some form of emulation is necessary to separate personality from desirable personas sought.


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## bales33 (Aug 8, 2012)

Ah arrogance, a hated yet admired trait... I say a person should think of themselves has awesome. :ninja:


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## SlowPoke68 (Apr 26, 2010)

FTA: 'Rather, men are more likely to walk away form an interaction with a woman thinking that she's into him, while the woman thinks, "Well, that was a nice friendly conversation."'

But see--nice, friendly conversations with an at-least-somewhat-eligible man eventually turn women on and make them want the man. It just needs to stew a bit. Their endocrine machines need more time to spool up than the male's. The more positive interactions, the better. 

Thinking that any interaction with a woman that doesn't immediately result in getting her pants off is is a failure is the wrong attitude.

So, guys: Don't stop trying and do continue to believe you are attractive and dashing and hot and do keep talking to women. Much better results that way than just sniveling in a corner somewhere. Just don't be pigs about it.


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## Chascoda (Jul 12, 2012)

"And most people probably didn't even think of me as a sexual being... My face looks very effeminate, and I have an ectomorphic build. Plus, people tend to associate me with childlike tendencies and innocence."


Hey. Y-

You.. sound kinda like me o_o I don't even get *false* compliments, though xD


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## UnderGroundKingz (Sep 3, 2012)

Torai said:


> I can't help but look at how the URL received the title:
> 
> "Men think they're shit." :tongue:


Given the responses of some the guys that posted, the URL isn't to far off, lol


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## changos (Nov 21, 2011)

*I believe it is a fact*.

Loosers and idiots have a lot of self confidence believing the world is wrong for not giving them the place they deserve. Go talk to any looser swimming in failure, they have "_the most amazing ideas of success!_". It applies to both genders.


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## Sara Torailles (Dec 14, 2010)

Chascoda said:


> Hey. Y-
> 
> You.. sound kinda like me o_o I don't even get *false* compliments, though xD


I just want to take this time to tell you how absolutely good-looking you are. :kitteh:

Also, here's a cookie:


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## Hruberen (Jan 2, 2012)

I'm not arrogant, per se, i'm just very vocal about what i'm good at and don't speak of the things that I am not so good at...


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## Sai (Sep 3, 2012)

We are awsome xd


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## Chascoda (Jul 12, 2012)

Thanks :sad:


*noms cookie*



....

:dry:

....

:kitteh:



(I really need to remember to click "Reply With Quote" and not just "Reply!")


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## Plaxico (Dec 11, 2010)

So then why does it seem like there are more disappointed women out there? If men overestimate attraction shouldn't we be the ones more disappointed? :shocked:


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## android654 (Jan 19, 2010)

That seems to be the consensus, men think more of themselves than they actually are and women think less of themselves than they actually are. All vast generalizations by the way.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Ace Face said:


> Men Think They're Hot -- And It Works : Discovery News
> So really, dudes, what's with all the arrogance and shit? You're not that awesome


why do women think they're so sexy, entitled to drinks and entitled to all the rights and privileges of men but none of the responsibilities? answer: they don't. it's just that the stuck up bitches are the ones people tend to notice, it's the same with guys.

to answer your question for me personally though: I wouldn't say I'm arrogant, but cockiness is a part of my personality that I admire and have accepted. I love myself, I think I'm awesome and because of this I am motivated to create as awesome of a life for myself as possible. this means that I only accept the best I can get. hence, I am a conceited, self absorbed snob and proud of it.


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## Kormoran (Mar 15, 2012)

Oh yes-sir-ree-Bob!


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## Pride49 (Nov 7, 2011)

Ace Face said:


> Men Think They're Hot -- And It Works : Discovery News
> 
> So really, dudes, what's with all the arrogance and shit? You're not that awesome


And why do women not display this arrogance? Because society has provided us with guideline of how we act. I do display arrogance. But not blind arrogance. I display arrogance for my philosophical views. And By using arrogance that places me above everyone. My self worth in my own views aren't challenged more than I challenge them myself. I expect the woman I have relationships should have requirements outside the regular bounds of society. Identical personalities if I may.

So far...I have only found the generalized type. Giggly, or determined about small realistic things...Completely stabilized...and/or having no philosophical opinions at all.


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## marked174 (Feb 24, 2010)

Catch 52. A guy is either arrogant or a pussy. If you want men to stop overestimating themselves then stop forcing them into that role and shaming them when they try to leave it.


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## Mr. Meepers (May 31, 2012)

Here is my take:
Forget that this is a generalization (I am just going to talk about American culture and my experience ... and this is just referring to heterosexual courting interactions and my perception of gender/sex expectation)... 
-I read somewhere that people tend to project the amount of interest they have for a person as the amount of interest that person has for them (I don't know if it is true, but after a few minute interaction, I can see this being the case)

- I think this society expect men to be the pursuer, while expecting (pressuring) women to take a much more passive role (men may think about woman and how to court them more, raising their interest with women in general ..... as far as confidence goes too much rejection may lower it, but enough mutual interest may raise it)
- There is a social pressure on men to have a lot of sex, while it seems woman have pressures for both more and less sex (probably a lot more pressure to have less sex on average, idk) ........ (raising how much men want to be interested in women while women may be pressured to suppress their interest in men)
- There seems to be a lot of value placed on looks/appearance, especially on women (an unrealistic expectation in many cases) ........ (lowering the confidence of many woman)
- There seems to be a lot of movies about the "nice guy" attracting the interest of a sexy woman, but not as much media the other way around ............ (I think most people are nice, so increasing the confidence many men have)
- "_men who said they were on the prowl for casual sex were more likely to assume that women wanted them much more than was true._" ....... (I think when the topic is more about sex, when talking to a stranger, sometimes one person may think the other person is interested in them, when they might just be playing nice or are just interested in the subject but not the person .... and the same time, if there is no real talk about sex and one person just wants casual sex, but does not want a romantic relationship, the other person may think that a lack of romantic attraction means that they are not attracted to them ... plus, if you think the other person is not romantically attracted to you, you may lose interest ..... For some reason wanting what "we can't have" I feel applies more to sex than romance, but that might just be me) ....... (I assumed that no more than a negligent minority of the men that just wanted casual sex had no interest in what the woman said ... although, if they were aware the questions going to be asked of them later, as they were talking, it could be higher) ........................ (So, I'm going to say a bit of a raise in men's confidence, a bit of a reduction in women's confidence, and a reduction in woman's interest)

I'm sure I'm missing things and this is just my interpretation ... but my overall point is based on how we treat men and woman and our different expectations of them ... are we really surprised by the result??




Ace Face said:


> Men Think They're Hot -- And It Works : Discovery News
> 
> So really, dudes, what's with all the arrogance and shit? You're not that awesome


Really?!?! ... I'm an Eevee ... who doesn't want me :wink:
Everyone wants to play with my tail(s) :kitteh: (whatever that means :tongue


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## Up and Away (Mar 5, 2011)

Honestly, women are the same way just as often.

Some girls I talk to are so busy being social with everyone that they can't even have the respect to finish a conversation before they are yelling at someone else or jumping into the spot light.

Some guys are the same way, some aren't... it just depends.

I'd rather have a sad girl truckin it hard tryin to make it check by check than have some party go happy chick, but thats just me.

And my life is hard, because I have high standards, so I certainly am not full of myself that much.

Everyone has to have a little pride I suppose, until we become more disciplined though. What the hell am I doing in the S and R forum again.


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## Mr. Meepers (May 31, 2012)

Jwing24 said:


> I feel like shit. Don't think that's what you're referring to though.


Awe .... *BIG .... SUPER ... GIGANTIC .... HUGS* ^__^ *more hugs* ^__^


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## Erbse (Oct 15, 2010)

Yardiff Bey said:


> It's the self-confidence thing. When you know you're hot stuff many girls pick up on that, and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy and self-reinforcing feedback-loop.


This.

For better or worse.


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## Yardiff Bey (Jun 5, 2011)

Souled In said:


> Honestly, women are the same way just as often.
> 
> Some girls I talk to are so busy being social with everyone that they can't even have the respect to finish a conversation before they are yelling at someone else or jumping into the spot light.
> 
> ...


To paraphrase Darth Vader: "I find your lack of discipline disturbing." XD LOL just kidding.

Yeah, I'd rather have a quiet girl too. Had waaaaay to many party-girls in my life, they just became boring.

Perhaps I'm getting jaded...


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## Nirel (Oct 21, 2012)

Its probably a survival instinct since you have a much higher chance of attracting women when you act like the shit.
Its actually women's fault men do that


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## Playful Proxy (Feb 6, 2012)

Maybe we pretend to act like we are the shit because we are told we get nothing if we don't? And it apparently works.  Sooo....if it bothers you, get over it. The majority of your kind choose our kind, and we like high chances of sex. Just because you 1%'ers don't like it, doesn't mean we plan to change.


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## MelissaC (May 23, 2012)

I don't think the studies show men think they're the shit (although many undoubtedly do), rather to me it signifies projection. 

Guy wants to fuck girl, guy assumes girl wants to fuck guy.


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## JoetheBull (Apr 29, 2010)

they seem to do better then guys like me. I don't even know what I rate on scale of looks wise anymore. Part of me still thinks I am a strong 1 but most likely a .0002.


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## Penguin (Sep 25, 2012)

Erbse said:


> This.
> 
> For better or worse.


was thinking about this on the bus, I was like..man I've had chicks all over me...I'm not that good looking I mean I'm not bad but wtf. Oh well at least I'm smart, thats what makes me confident, oh, I'm confident which makes me attractive which makes me confident...that fuq is wrong with this world that makes no sense but its true anyway. BTW faking confidence rarely works from what I've seen.


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## Penguin (Sep 25, 2012)

Signify said:


> Maybe we pretend to act like we are the shit because we are told we get nothing if we don't? And it apparently works.  Sooo....if it bothers you, get over it. The majority of your kind choose our kind, and we like high chances of sex. Just because you 1%'ers don't like it, doesn't mean we plan to change.


the 1%ers like it too, they just like to pretend they don't that's why they have 20 "guy friends who are all sitting in the friendzone because they actually think women want the nice guy. fuck that shit, the nicest girl in the world doesnt want the "nice guy" my last girlfriend was super conservative christian nicest person in the world type of person. some guy had been her "friend" / tried to date her for 8 months before I even met her. I was like "fuck that guy, go to dinner with me on your birthday, I'll pay, it'll be the nicest restaurant you've ever been to" He tried to throw her some lame ass party with all her other "guy friends" who had all been competing for her for forever just so he would get a little face time with her, they all bought her sentimental presents. Guess who she blew off? not me. I bought her dinner and flowers, informed her that I would be pursuing her. Took her on a few more dates, we were dating within 2 months. 

The nice guy worries about all the other guys who might be pursing her, the nice guy doesn't want to ruin their friendship, the nice guy is a pussy who wants a 100% guantee before he puts himself totally out there, then when he gets rejected he can't accept it so he hangs around, he's been so nice that she lets him, to her secret displeasure although she does like the attention. How do I know all this? I did that once...key word ONCE. fuck that, I'm never going through that cycle again. 

Ladies you want to know why all your boyfriends are d bags? because they are like me, you have to be like this to have a decent chance with almost anyone worth having; believe it or not, if you are an attractive female that guy you're going to dinner with has likely fought off at least 5 or 6 others just to get you there whether you realize it or not. the difference is most guys take that mentality INTO their relationships once they have them. You have to be ruthless to get her but respectful/kind once you have her...most guys just stick with the idgaf what anyone else wants mentality. 

TL;DR? 
Guys, stop being afraid of rejection, stop being afraid you might get in some other guys way, just go for it and if she doesn't like you, move on there are literally millions of women who speak your language.

Ladies, be more understanding of what guys have to do to attain that confidence you find so attractive, look at it from our perspective. Even the most confident guys have been rejected, to maintain that confidence we have to not care what you or anyone else thinks, you have to break through that to get to the good side, if there is one.
/thread


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## Resolution (Feb 8, 2010)

Ace Face said:


> Men Think They're Hot -- And It Works : Discovery News
> 
> So really, dudes, what's with all the arrogance and shit? You're not that awesome


I'll answer your question with a question. 

Let's say I enter a relationship and I'm getting steady sex from a beautiful woman. My confidence is through the roof. I strut with my step. I wake up with a big smile and think "Man I'm awesome". 

And girls seem to come from the woodwork. 

Part of me is like. . . you do know that I was single until just recently right? Same guy, pretty much?


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## Hokahey (Oct 8, 2010)

3rd grade art project syndrome.


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## Erbse (Oct 15, 2010)

Penguin said:


> BTW faking confidence rarely works from what I've seen.


Works splendid. Only one you've to fool is yourself, that's the trick.

Whether or not you are objectively / factual confident (whatever it may requires to measure that anyway) - as long as *you* think you are, it'll show.

Well, in most cases anyway. This excludes people who can't be objective about themselves even if their lives depended on it - since they permanently have a vibe of 'Do not want to get in contact with'.


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## Runvardh (May 17, 2011)

Ace Face said:


> Men Think They're Hot -- And It Works : Discovery News
> 
> So really, dudes, what's with all the arrogance and shit? You're not that awesome


He who acts like he gets the most girls seems to get the most girls. It's kind of like how the typical person doesn't really think of fixing something that doesn't seem to them to be broken.




fourtines said:


> For some reason I've noticed this more with "nerdy" types of guys on-line, I don't know what the fuck it is, but honestly, good looking athletic men I've known in real life seem to have less picky sexual appetites, and while they still want attractive women, they don't have these ridiculously specific standards, going for women TOTALLY OUT OF THEIR LEAGUE or simply unavailable to them, while ignoring their fellow "nerdy" girls who might actually date them. I don't know if this means that men who are more highly sexed and physical have a broader idea of what is sexy when it comes to women (like they like different types of cuisine, so to speak, as long as its prepared well) while men who are less sexed are actually this way not because no woman wants them, but because they themselves are so picky and undersexed they are shooting themselves in the foot. Or maybe it's a self-esteem issue, maybe guys with a certain kind of low self-esteem try to over-compensate for trying to go for the "best" trophy girl, and acting dejected that she's not interested, but have an all-or-nothing mentality, like trophy girl or go home alone.


That's interesting; I date, to near exclusivity, nerdy girls. 

You know what's frustrating about trying to date nerdy girls though? 

In some places they only occupy 1% of the population (especially where I live) and only 1% of them actually leave the house with any sort of regularity, outside of work and groceries. So while there is a potential of there being 55 that I could run into in the city that I live (actually, 25, since I'll need to cut out the under age crowd and those approaching my mother's age and older), one still needs to find the girl who is still healthy, available, and interested. 

I wonder why some nerd guys don't stick to "their league".


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## marked174 (Feb 24, 2010)

Penguin said:


> the 1%ers like it too, they just like to pretend they don't that's why they have 20 "guy friends who are all sitting in the friendzone because they actually think women want the nice guy. fuck that shit, the nicest girl in the world doesnt want the "nice guy" my last girlfriend was super conservative christian nicest person in the world type of person. some guy had been her "friend" / tried to date her for 8 months before I even met her. I was like "fuck that guy, go to dinner with me on your birthday, I'll pay, it'll be the nicest restaurant you've ever been to" He tried to throw her some lame ass party with all her other "guy friends" who had all been competing for her for forever just so he would get a little face time with her, they all bought her sentimental presents. Guess who she blew off? not me. I bought her dinner and flowers, informed her that I would be pursuing her. Took her on a few more dates, we were dating within 2 months.
> 
> The nice guy worries about all the other guys who might be pursing her, the nice guy doesn't want to ruin their friendship, the nice guy is a pussy who wants a 100% guantee before he puts himself totally out there, then when he gets rejected he can't accept it so he hangs around, he's been so nice that she lets him, to her secret displeasure although she does like the attention. How do I know all this? I did that once...key word ONCE. fuck that, I'm never going through that cycle again.
> 
> ...


Posts like these are trying to make me more sexist. Not because I agree with the sentiments or because I am convinced of the dogma of evolutionary psychology, but because no one is bothering to prove them wrong. If I was a woman, I would put this bullshit in its place, not only with my words, but by my deeds as well. Instead, I see one group of girls dismissing these statements and ignoring them, while another proves the guys who say them right and propagate the stereotype.

There must be women out there who believe that it is wrong to manipulate and torture guys, even if they commit the unpardonable sin of lacking confidence. There must be women who can recognize that there is more to relationships than pig-headed, bestial sexual attraction, and uses long term values to determine mate partners; like finding a man who can love and respect them.

If people continue to believe the myth that all women are nothing more than hormonal vaginas who need a strong and confident dick to fuck them or that they are manipulating horrors who heartlessly lock men in the friend-zone then women will never receive the respect or love that each and every person deserves. 

So ladies: if you have never put a man in the friend-zone and if you look to more than sexual attraction for love please, represent yourself. Let the guys know that you don't believe in those things, and maybe let the girls know that their behavior is bringing you down.


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## Penguin (Sep 25, 2012)

marked174 said:


> Posts like these are trying to make me more sexist. Not because I agree with the sentiments or because I am convinced of the dogma of evolutionary psychology, but because no one is bothering to prove them wrong. If I was a woman, I would put this bullshit in its place, not only with my words, but by my deeds as well. Instead, I see one group of girls dismissing these statements and ignoring them, while another proves the guys who say them right and propagate the stereotype.
> 
> There must be women out there who believe that it is wrong to manipulate and torture guys, even if they commit the unpardonable sin of lacking confidence. There must be women who can recognize that there is more to relationships than pig-headed, bestial sexual attraction, and uses long term values to determine mate partners; like finding a man who can love and respect them.
> 
> ...


fair enough man, its not that I wanted to agree with what I said, its that I was forced to through experience. Success speaks for itself really. sometimes things that we don't want to be true just are. Not that I'm saying half of the words you put in my mouth with the above post, but I think I get what you're trying to say.


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## marked174 (Feb 24, 2010)

Penguin said:


> fair enough man, its not that I wanted to agree with what I said, its that I was forced to through experience. Success speaks for itself really. sometimes things that we don't want to be true just are. Not that I'm saying half of the words you put in my mouth with the above post, but I think I get what you're trying to say.


No, I get it. I wasn't trying to paint you up as some asshole; you raised some legitimate issues. I just think that the girls who prove your points do a disservice to the ones who don't, and I'm not convinced it's something a guy can fix.


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## Mr. Meepers (May 31, 2012)

I. Am. ... The Poop :tongue:

... There, I said it!!!

We all know that I am awesome, I think ... well ... let's just agree that I am awesome :tongue:

(Did I win the thread? ... also, the existence of my post supports the title of this thread )


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## J Squirrel (Jun 2, 2012)

Mr. Meepers said:


> I. Am. ... The Poop
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That depends. Are all the ladies flocking to you? :wink:


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## Mr. Meepers (May 31, 2012)

J Squirrel said:


> That depends. Are all the ladies flocking to you? :wink:


The ones that believe I am an eevee are  ... Especially the ladies trying to become Pokemon Masters XD



J Squirrel said:


> That depends. Are all the ladies flocking to you?
> 
> 
> (also, I underlined the typo for you )


:shocked: ... :crying:


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## J Squirrel (Jun 2, 2012)

Mr. Meepers said:


> The ones that believe I am an eevee are  ... Especially the ladies trying to become Pokemon Masters XD


Hurry ladies, gotta catch him!


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## Kanerou (Oct 8, 2009)

Meh... I still don't get the friend-zone gripe. Sure I have guy friends I wouldn't date. Most, I don't find physically attractive. Occasionally, I find a physically attractive guy whose personality or values turn me off to wanting them relationally. The idea that because I engage in such behavior, I really want an asshole to come sweep me off my feet, is really irritating. What if I want a guy with a steady job, intelligence, a nice personality, and common interests _who I also find physically attractive_? But nope, I don't want the so-called, self-labeled "nice guy", so I'm obviously into douchebags. Sure, some women are shallow and/or want jerks. Still, I smell serious bitterness (and perhaps some delusion) in such a concept.



Mr. Meepers said:


> Really?!?! ... I'm an Eevee ... who doesn't want me :wink:
> Everyone wants to play with my tail(s) :kitteh: (whatever that means :tongue


Furry creature with a floofy tail? Hells yes! *pets*


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## Penguin (Sep 25, 2012)

Kanerou said:


> Meh... I still don't get the friend-zone gripe. Sure I have guy friends I wouldn't date. Most, I don't find physically attractive. Occasionally, I find a physically attractive guy whose personality or values turn me off to wanting them relationally. The idea that because I engage in such behavior, I really want an asshole to come sweep me off my feet, is really irritating. What if I want a guy with a steady job, intelligence, a nice personality, and common interests _who I also find physically attractive_? But nope, I don't want the so-called, self-labeled "nice guy", so I'm obviously into douchebags. Sure, some women are shallow and/or want jerks. Still, I smell serious bitterness (and perhaps some delusion) in such a concept.
> 
> 
> 
> Furry creature with a floofy tail? Hells yes! *pet*


your definition of asshole is different than the male definition. Read my long post explaining that.


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## marked174 (Feb 24, 2010)

Kanerou said:


> Meh... I still don't get the friend-zone gripe. Sure I have guy friends I wouldn't date. Most, I don't find physically attractive.


If he was a real friend, you wouldn't simply write him off as some guy you don't find attractive. You would care about him as a person (because he is your friend) and would support him having healthy relationships, not only with you (platonic friendship) but also with someone who could love and respect him in a way which you obviously can't (because you don't find him attractive).

The kind of "friendships" Penguin described had no trace of that. Rather, it stank of "Some men out there are pussies. Those men don't tickle my special place. Fuck those men." This disgusting mentality ad-nausim creates a mentality that men must "think they are the shit" or they will be reviled, manipulated, and mocked.

I simply added that this mentality makes women look like heartless pigs, and does not serve well to those who wish to do good to those they call friends.


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## Resolution (Feb 8, 2010)

marked174 said:


> If he was a real friend, you wouldn't simply write him off as some guy you don't find attractive. You would care about him as a person (because he is your friend) and would support him having healthy relationships, not only with you (platonic friendship) but also with someone who could love and respect him in a way which you obviously can't (because you don't find him attractive).
> 
> The kind of "friendships" Penguin described had no trace of that. Rather, it stank of "Some men out there are pussies. Those men don't tickle my special place. Fuck those men." This disgusting mentality ad-nausim creates a mentality that men must "think they are the shit" or they will be reviled, manipulated, and mocked.
> 
> I simply added that this mentality makes women look like heartless pigs, and does not serve well to those who wish to do good to those they call friends.


Ehhhh. . . 

Flaws in logic, dude. 

Namely . . . 



> but also with someone who could love and respect him in a way which you obviously can't (because you don't find him attractive).


I have male friends. I don't find them attractive. Are you implying that I am a bad friend? 

See the problem here? You're applying a double standard. That women should be morally obligated to fuck their friends while men don't necessarily need to. 

Referring to such women as pigs isn't exactly helping your case.

Another avenue of attack on your point. Would you argue that a 18 year old woman who befriended an 80 year old man would need to fuck him in order to not be a pig? I doubt you would make this argument. 

So you'd need to narrow it down by age range. What other qualifications are women _allowed _to make based upon these arbitrary standards of yours?

So your point is pretty flawed and misogynistic I'm not all that angry, but. . . the feminists that are going to reply to this post soon will be. Just a heads up.


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## Kanerou (Oct 8, 2009)

Penguin said:


> your definition of asshole is different than the male definition. Read my long post explaining that.


Alright. How do men define "asshole"? I've read your post, but I'd like to hear the definition from you rather than guess at it and be incorrect.


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## Resolution (Feb 8, 2010)

Kanerou said:


> Alright. How do men define "asshole"? I've read your post, but I'd like to hear the definition from you rather than guess at it and be incorrect.


In this context, asshole is usually defined as "men who are more confident than I" or an asshole is a man who believes himself to be more socially valuable than the woman he's dating (As in he does not put her needs above his own in a quasi-servitude)


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## marked174 (Feb 24, 2010)

Btmangan said:


> Ehhhh. . .
> 
> Flaws in logic, dude.
> 
> ...


Not at all. However, you would still need to care about him as a person.

You would care about him as a person (because he is your friend) and would support him having healthy relationships, not only with you (platonic friendship) but also with someone who could love and respect him in a way which you obviously can't (because you don't find him attractive and, I'm guessing, your also both straight).



Btmangan said:


> See the problem here? You're applying a double standard. That women should be morally obligated to fuck their friends while men don't necessarily need to.


Not at all, but I can see where the misconception occurred. The issue here is about relationships, not sex. Every person deserves love and respect from their friends; and every person, regardless of gender, should be morally obligated to show that respect and care (love) to all those they call friends.



Btmangan said:


> Referring to such women as pigs isn't exactly helping your case.


My use of hyperbole does get me into trouble sometimes. Regardless, I hold low opinion of those who treat others as mere instruments of their own pleasure. 

Ironically, people state that I might be advocating that women be nothing but fuck objects. Nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, my issue here is that men are viewed as fuck objects, and that if they don't "think they're the shit" that they are worthless, like broken dildos. 

For example, let's say a certain woman was attracted to me. Unfortunately, she was severely overweight and battling with depression, and I simply did not find her attractive. She then goes out of her way to do nice things for me, tries to make me feel better when I'm down. Now let's say that I decide not to tell her to stop, or let her know that she's setting herself up for a fall. Instead, I continue to let her do nice things for me, and I never give her the tough love that she needs. Not only that, but when she isn't around I call her a cow, and say that "cows like that deserve what they get. If she wants a real man, she should grow a pair"... err excuse me... "lose a few". Let's say that some people think that this behavior is wrong, and confront me on it. I then make the issue not about how I treat the poor girl, but about how they are trying to make me feel guilty for not having sex with her. After all this I still claim that this girl is my "friend". If I did these things, I would be cruel and a pig; plain and simple. It completely baffles me how this view is in any way controversial.


Btmangan said:


> Another avenue of attack on your point. Would you argue that a 18 year old woman who befriended an 80 year old man would need to fuck him in order to not be a pig? I doubt you would make this argument.
> 
> So you'd need to narrow it down by age range. What other qualifications are women _allowed _to make based upon these arbitrary standards of yours?


Age also has nothing to do with this. Like I said earlier, this is not about sex, but rather care and respect. Those are my standards. I would expect both the 18 and 80 year old to have those supportive stances toward one another.


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## Resolution (Feb 8, 2010)

marked174 said:


> For example, let's say a certain woman was attracted to me. Unfortunately, she was severely overweight and battling with depression, and I simply did not find her attractive. She then goes out of her way to do nice things for me, tries to make me feel better when I'm down. Now let's say that I decide not to tell her to stop, or let her know that she's setting herself up for a fall. Instead, I continue to let her do nice things for me, and I never give her the tough love that she needs. Not only that, but when she isn't around I call her a cow, and say that "cows like that deserve what they get. If she wants a real man, she should grow a pair"... err excuse me... "lose a few". Let's say that some people think that this behavior is wrong, and confront me on it. I then make the issue not about how I treat the poor girl, but about how they are trying to make me feel guilty for not having sex with her. After all this I still claim that this girl is my "friend". If I did these things, I would be cruel and a pig; plain and simple. It completely baffles me how this view is in any way controversial.


AHHHH! I see your point now. 

When I first read your post, I had the distinct impression that you thought that women who didn't want to fuck their friends were somehow morally suspect. I misinterpreted your point. 

What you're ACTUALLY saying is that you find it morally objectionable when women befriend a man who is attracted to her, and bask in his affection without cutting him off (as would be responsible), or by immaculating him in a way that would never be deemed acceptable towards a woman (Devaluing him on the basis of his lack of sex appeal), and not wishing him a healthy, empowering relationship! 

I see your point now and I do agree that I'd deem these behaviors to be morally suspect. Sorry for my knee-jerk (I hope others give your post a re-read as well instead of jumping to my conclusion. If I were you, I'd edit your post)


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## Mr. Meepers (May 31, 2012)

@_marked174_ ... Most of us use attractive to mean Romantically and/or sexually attractive

Just because I am friends with someone and I love them as a friend, does not mean I have any attraction towards them, even though I care deeply for them. I have connections with them (if that is what you mean) and I see my friends, no matter what they look like, as being beautiful people (maybe that is what you mean?), but I don't want to be romantically involved with all other them or any of them ... I like being friends with them, and some are like family to me (on friend is like a sister to me), but I don't want to date them.

Edit: Reading the above posts ... I agree that a good friend would not lead another friend on and would encourage them to look for someone else if they did not feel a mutual attraction. They would support the friend instead of bring them down ... Okay, I agree with that


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## marked174 (Feb 24, 2010)

Btmangan said:


> AHHHH! I see your point now.
> 
> When I first read your post, I had the distinct impression that you thought that women who didn't want to fuck their friends were somehow morally suspect. I misinterpreted your point.
> 
> ...


Exactly. Thanks for taking the time to both listen and critically analyze both my content and delivery.


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## Kanerou (Oct 8, 2009)

@Btmangan Actually, when multiple people are reading it wrong (I make #3), that's a good indicator it was written poorly.



marked174 said:


> For example, let's say a certain woman was attracted to me. Unfortunately, she was severely overweight and battling with depression, and I simply did not find her attractive. She then goes out of her way to do nice things for me, tries to make me feel better when I'm down. Now let's say that I decide not to tell her to stop, or let her know that she's setting herself up for a fall. Instead, I continue to let her do nice things for me, and I never give her the tough love that she needs. Not only that, but when she isn't around I call her a cow, and say that "cows like that deserve what they get. If she wants a real man, she should grow a pair"... err excuse me... "lose a few". Let's say that some people think that this behavior is wrong, and confront me on it. I then make the issue not about how I treat the poor girl, but about how they are trying to make me feel guilty for not having sex with her. After all this I still claim that this girl is my "friend". If I did these things, I would be cruel and a pig; plain and simple. It completely baffles me how this view is in any way controversial.


And you're projecting this kind of situation onto me because I said I have friends I don't date for aesthetic reasons?


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## Haydn (Sep 20, 2012)

I guess men should try and have reasonable degree of self confidence but damn, when you have some guy after you that you find unattractive and you have tried to reject them in every way you know how and they are still after you and you cannot really escape them due to work, school, etc, it is annoying as hell.


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## marked174 (Feb 24, 2010)

Mr. Meepers said:


> @_marked174_ ... Most of us use attractive to mean Romantically and/or sexually attractive
> 
> Just because I am friends with someone and I love them as a friend, does not mean I have any attraction towards them, even though I care deeply for them. I have connections with them (if that is what you mean) and I see my friends, no matter what they look like, as being beautiful people (maybe that is what you mean?), but I don't want to be romantically involved with all other them or any of them ... I like being friends with them, and some are like family to me (on friend is like a sister to me), but I don't want to date them.
> 
> Edit: Reading the above posts ... I agree that a good friend would not lead another friend on and would encourage them to look for someone else if they did not feel a mutual attraction. They would support the friend instead of bring them down ... Okay, I agree with that


I think that guys have a shit time at healthy relationships in general. If they're not being told to be tough, Stoic soldiers who never show the vulnerability required to ask for a supportive relationship then they are being told that they are villains who don't deserve one. Many guys find the only way to fight these voices on both fronts is by behaving and believing that they don't need such relationships (cuz after all, they're the shit).


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## Resolution (Feb 8, 2010)

Kanerou said:


> @_Btmangan_ Actually, when multiple people are reading it wrong (I make #3), that's a good indicator it was written poorly.


Lol yeah. The design of that post really seems to mislead. I'm just worried a feminist is going to pull out a castration knife and go to town.




marked174 said:


> I think that guys have a shit time at healthy relationships in general. If they're not being told to be tough, Stoic soldiers who never show the vulnerability required to ask for a supportive relationship then they are being told that they are villains who don't deserve one. Many guys find the only way to fight these voices on both fronts is by behaving and believing that they don't need such relationships (cuz after all, they're the shit).



Hahahaha yeah. I don't do gender adherence. Most of my friends say I'm the most masculine guy they know and some girls enter in with that belief. 

So I pump the Kelly Clarkson (I sing along of course), talk about the beauty of a leaf fluttering in the breeze, go with the old "Can you hold me, I'm feeling vulnerable" every once in a while. Talk about my feelings, fears, etc. 

If it turns them off, I will just keep pushing my feminine side until the relationship implodes. 

Put on an act for her? Fuck no.


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## Manhattan (Jul 13, 2011)

It's better for a man to overestimate a woman's possible attraction and get shut down than it is for a man to underestimate a woman's possible attraction and miss a chance at spreading his genes.


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## marked174 (Feb 24, 2010)

Kanerou said:


> @_Btmangan_ Actually, when multiple people are reading it wrong (I make #3), that's a good indicator it was written poorly.


You'll never catch me saying that I have mastered the art of succinct communication. 



Kanerou said:


> And you're projecting this kind of situation onto me because I said I have friends I don't date for aesthetic reasons?


No. My projection was intended for Penguin's hypothetical. 
Admittedly, I also surmised that, by the nature of your words, you held those friends with little respect. Hell, the only thing that I know about them is that you don't find them attractive. That is 100% of the characterization I was given. With data like that, I can only surmise that the relationship has a respect deficiency.


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## Kanerou (Oct 8, 2009)

Btmangan said:


> In this context, asshole is usually defined as "men who are more confident than I"


Hmm, sounds awfully bitter. 



> or an asshole is a man who believes himself to be more socially valuable than the woman he's dating (As in he does not put her needs above his own in a quasi-servitude)


Eh, I don't think refusing to be a doormat is considering oneself more socially valuable than one's partner. Healthy relationships involve both sides compromising. My older brother was left by a woman he'd spent several years treating like a princess. I doubt he's going to be a jerk to future women, but he has decided to be genuine and to look after his own needs rather than just submitting to theirs. I'd consider this a stable frame of mind.

As an addition, I'm not a huge fan of the ultra-chivalrous myself. I don't need someone to open my doors, pull out my chair, or help me down unless I am unable to do it myself (say I'm carrying something heavy and/or that takes up both hands). My limbs are not broken.


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## Resolution (Feb 8, 2010)

@Kanerou 

Hahaha yeah I don't agree with it. I was being facetious.


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## Penguin (Sep 25, 2012)

Kanerou said:


> Alright. How do men define "asshole"? I've read your post, but I'd like to hear the definition from you rather than guess at it and be incorrect.


Most "nice guys" say girls are dating an asshole because they got there first and the "ass hole" came in and was very direct with her about what she wanted and didn't care that a bunch of other guys were all tiptoeing around each other. Girls define asshole as someone who doesn't value them, mistreats them, or cheats on them. Which is often not the case even if the relationship doesn't work out.


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