# Hi, Warm Welcome



## INFJturnedENTP (Jan 10, 2009)

Thank you for welcoming me on your site. I am enthusiastic and pleased to add to others' experience and will offer what insight I may have for mutual understanding. Although I wasn't aware of MBTI in my teens, I believe I was exactly an INFJ during those years. After reading so much about INFJs I now understand why I used to feel so outside of everybody's social circles and groups...I connect with the feelings of so many Protectors having read numerous postings by infjs. So I would like to empathize and offer what I can to bridge understanding to and from ENTP typology, which is what I developed into last time I scored the MBTI...and INFJs.

Thank you for your reading and I anticipate good conversations.

Andrew


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## Nightriser (Nov 8, 2008)

INFJ-->ENTP? That's quite a change. Any idea what caused it? 

Welcome, though. You will find plenty of good conversation here.


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## Ćerulean (Nov 18, 2008)

Hello and welcome to the Personality Cafe.

Care to share what new experiences led to change three of your four letters?


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## INFJturnedENTP (Jan 10, 2009)

*I'll explain*

Yes, I have been thinking of those reasons why..
I don't claim to absolutly know, but I'll take a reasonable guess at it. Mainly I felt obligated from my environment.
My father, an ISTJ..was a drill sargeant and very demanding of me. It felt like he wouldn't let me alone in his expectations of my taking action around the house and helping him do housework or even to have fun. Much of home life seemed like orders given to me with no let-up.
My mother, an ESTP, would go along with however my Dad wanted to run the house. So I felt at the mercy of his judgement. Unrelenting and never went back on his word. When he makes a decision, it is Final. 
My mom is very nurturing and accepting. Without her I imagine I would be an entirely different damaged soul. But that's just my imagination speaking..Life is very strong and perhaps that wouldn't be true in reality..I don't know

My sister, an ESTJ, was similar to my father in a way and demanded action of me. Especially when it came to her perceptions of my behavior not being like hers. Very Pygmalion in approach to me and others. Somewhat tolerant of people being "different from her" at times but in the family I most often felt a litte to a lot of anxiety in my teens from her...a sort of looming and anticipation when I knew I was coming into her presence. 

Altogether, I conditioned myself out of my shell and by feelings I had of a consistent peer pressure at home. I believe with my attitude and value of honoring my parents, I very seriously took this to be taken literally and I inadvertently forced my fundamental change from an INFJ to and ENTP. Very uncomfortable and prolonged for me, I, hourly was confused and in knots about life and had very high anxiety. Junior year in high school I was extremely depressed and didn't go to school for several days..Days turned into weeks. I don't know how long I was out of school. My teachers knew something was up and shortened my assignments. I was even allowed to not take a class required for graduation..Sad I feel. I still do not know how much they know but suspect my nurturing mother made it somehow clear and comfortable for them to understand...And to add to it, as you may well have felt a similar way but I don't know, my gut was always hurting every morning in anticipation of my school day inevitably going to be around very loud and expressive extraverts and living up to social expectations up until about junior year in college. 

After having been used to it and placing importance on thinking this attitude was one that was good for me, (afterall, it came from my family upbringing which I believed to be good...children are so trusting of their parents and I was a very naive child..so naive I assumed their care was the best for me) Actually I was voted 'Most Naive' in high school..I saw in the yearbook after it was published and took it very personally. That bothered me for some time. I don't go to my high school reunions..I have pretty much written off that class. So sad but I will not subject myself to those feelings again. And I know there are good people in my class and I hold them in high regard.

I became an extrovert by throwing myself into unusual circumstances and then seeing what happened inside myself...I felt so beatup and alone in my type that no one understood me. I got mad at the depression in high school and sort of fell in love with it as I felt I couldn't escape it...so "ran it through" like an animal running through an invisible fence, sound piercing my ears all the while..but I hated the pain and just wanted to retreat to my room. Felt pestered by my Dad's requirements to "get up and do something" He just didn't understand me. Also I was angered by what I saw as a double standard from his letting my introverted sister just do her thing. She read lots of books and was only required to do little things by him. Tradionalist as he is, and chauvenistic (don't mean to condescend here but these are the only words to explain this as I can see it) Girls don't do guy things like work on cars and mow the yard..help fix broken dryers and things around the house. He would ask for my help and then when I got to the task he would not ask me to do any tasks. I thought he just wanted me being with him and felt duped. I felt like a martyr doing it, it was awful..like jumping off a pier and into a deep lake when being scared of not knowing how to swim very well (I actually swim fine but you get the feeling I'm talking about)..but enjoyed seeing so many others having so much fun...so I tried very hard to mimic others behavior but it just felt stupid.

...And from my priority to always please and gain approval from my father, but in more recent years I have realized was always "moving the finish line" when I would accomplish something in great hope and anticipation of his smiling approval, only to feel unfulfilled and surpisingly shocked when instead he gave me a different task instead. I didn't realize all those years, but after connecting the fact that he was a drill sargeant in the Army, with my seeking approval from him, I place the fundamental reason for my change mainly on this paradigm. Just a guess..I'm not a clinical psychologist with any formal training..not that that makes me wrong either..haha..

I realize it may sound like a complaining..but this is functionally the only way to describe my 'development'. Sorry it's not good for everyone.

So all in all, I believe I became an (E) extravert to escape the inner turmoil of my unbearable family pressures, stayed an Intuitive because that's my fundamental GOD-given thinking style, but also turned into a (T) because I had to begin thinking myself out of my lifelong home-tension-feeling situation by necessity. And became a (P)erceiver to not deal with the whole thing. The judgement inside of myself and it's associated feelings became too great to bear. I wish I was still an INFJ because it is a much richer life to live. 

Today I am an engineer (Inventor) and now my necessity is to do my work (which requires my extraversion)...I/You INFJs are so wonderful and considerate and thoughtful. I see your care knowing it is not outwardly expressed and can imagine the same. I think INFJs are GOD's most special people. A little bias there I am still inside myself. I stay home a lot and feel to bring out my wonderfully compassionate thoughts and considerations..I am in love with an INFJ..I think she probably thinks "If he could only know how I feel about him" but just can't express it to me (hopefully yet lol) When I walk into the room she just "Lights up" She's very smart and once in awhile her body language is flirty with me..The feelings she evokes inside me are real..She is So SPECIAL!!! I wonder if she will ever show me her true feelings. The other day I asked her "What would you think about going to lunch across the street" (from where we both work)..She neither gave me a 'yes' or a 'no'...So I look to the future and think she will eventually perhaps click with me and know we are made for each other. 

But I understand she's struggling with her thoughts and emotions and her J just won't let her P do it's thing..haha..that's okay. I love her and am eternally patient.


Thanks for your caring, 
Andrew


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## Zulban (Nov 11, 2008)

I think that is the longest post I've ever seen here 

Having said so, I ask if this girl and your parents have actually taken the MB, or if you are guessing... We have threads here debating which MB some people in movies belong to and such, as it can be very difficult sometimes. I always stress that people should be cautious in thinking someone is a type until they have tested and scored reasonably high on all four letters.

What confuses me utterly is you seem to demonstrate traits of both an INFJ and an ENTP! You're schooling was certainly INFJ like, and your job and current approach to problems seems ENTP like. 

Lastly I would like to know what you felt about my post here, seeing as I did not mention your father or much of the emotional history you had.


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## INFJturnedENTP (Jan 10, 2009)

*Thank you*

Thank you and I will try to answer your question. 

I don't have any hard data..although I am only second to the ENFP in "sizing up" situations and reading people...

I believe these observations to be true based on Kiersey's book "Please Understand Me II ('Too')"..

Having lived with my differing family members for 20-some years, in addition to comparing the myriad of life experiences, Observing their attitudes and portrayals of behavior, Page 62 of Kiersey's book describes the traits and temperaments (attitudes) of people towards and with regards to contexts of Time, the type of Language usage (Referential, Syntactical, Rhetorical), Intellect being expressive or reserved, Interests with regard to Education, Preoccupation and Vocation; Self-image regarding self-esteem, self-respect and self-confidence, ; Values with regard to Being, Trusting, Yearning, Seeking, Prizing, and Aspiring; and Social Roles with regards to Mating, Parenting, and Leading...I believe my observations to be in complete congruence with Kiersey's analysis. 

For instance, My father has often used the words "imperative, right, incorrect, supervision, judgment, wrong,"...and he does not tolerate things which are socially unnacceptable or seen as immoral. As we are all observers of others' behavior, I gleaned mine from many years of it.

Having said that, Of course I could be off a little, but do not doubt any of my fundamental observations from being true. Yes I can't say what percentages of intuition, sensing, etc. and I won't attempted this. Wouldn't make sense to..But I do believe from careful observation that my Sister is a Guardian, my mother an Artisan and my father a Guardian. 

My thirst for knowledge fuels my inquiry...but was only trying to provide RES insights as indicated..

I don't know if the love of my life has taken the MBTI.

Thanks, and I hope that provides you with greater understanding of another type and we can all learn something.


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## Happy (Oct 10, 2008)

Greetings! Welcome to personalitycafe! Thank you very much for joining our humble little forum! That is quite an intro you got there. It is probably the best one I have seen.:crazy:


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## εmptε (Nov 20, 2008)

You reek of F. 

Anyway, welcome to the forum.


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## Trope (Oct 18, 2008)

Lykos said:


> You reek of F.
> 
> Anyway, welcome to the forum.


I didn't want to be the one to say it but. . . yeah. You still seem more like an INFJ than ENTP to me, even when I take into account the knowledge of your appointed career.

Also, welcome. May your time with us be fruitful.


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## INFJturnedENTP (Jan 10, 2009)

Lykos said:


> You reek of F.
> 
> Anyway, welcome to the forum.


We all have problems don't we...


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## εmptε (Nov 20, 2008)

INFJturnedENTP said:


> We all have problems don't we...


Some are just worst then the others. I've seen everything you describe come from a INFJ. ... maybe you should ask lance to change your name to "StillanINFJ".


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## INFJturnedENTP (Jan 10, 2009)

*Do you have a mirror?*

I wasn't focused on me.


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## Happy (Oct 10, 2008)

Meet lykos the entp maniac.


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## εmptε (Nov 20, 2008)

INFJturnedENTP said:


> I wasn't focused on me.


Obviously you don't understand the fact that I understood but ignored you anyway. No one would ever mistake me for a ENTP. It's always been ENTJ and ENTP. Which, unlike you, would only change 1 letter and not three. I think you are a depressed or stressed INFJ that's shadow type is ENTP.


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## INFJturnedENTP (Jan 10, 2009)

*True*

I'd love to spar with you Lykos..But I've been there and done that..How old are you?


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## INFJturnedENTP (Jan 10, 2009)

That's clever but you're boring me.


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## εmptε (Nov 20, 2008)

INFJturnedENTP said:


> I'd love to spar with you Lykos..But I've been there and done that..How old are you?


I'm seventeen. I turn eighteen in march.

Not to be rude or anything, and this isn't a attempt to draw you back into the fight, but running away from a argument is a very INFJ thing to do. :bored:


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## INFJturnedENTP (Jan 10, 2009)

*Is that funny?*

Very funny Lykos. Draw back into the "Fight"? Ignoring me? Your multiple posting show you are very attentive indeed. 

Circumlocuting vaguely into a phantom idea is a trick I am wise to..But thanks for the sporting fun.



You can't not make decisions and express something to do with your emotions. Good.


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## Trope (Oct 18, 2008)

Turned, how old are you?


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## εmptε (Nov 20, 2008)

"You can't not make decisions and express something to do with your emotions. Good."

I got everything else expect that. I can't not make decisions. So I can make decisions or did you not mean to type both Can't and Not? The second part is even odder. Where in this thread did I express something to do with my emotions, or are you saying that the fact I choose logic over feelings is a good thing? :happy:


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## εmptε (Nov 20, 2008)

Trope said:


> Turned, how old are you?


Just a guesstimate but I say he's nineteen.


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## CJay3113 (Dec 31, 2008)

Welcome, man. Thanks for sharing your story. I can't possibly imagine what it was like in your house. I get chills when I hear the words drill and sergeant. I find your situation interesting because I'm pretty sure I was an E back in the day and I somehow shifted over to the I side. And thanks for the INFJ appreciation shout out.


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## Zulban (Nov 11, 2008)

Lykos said:


> I think you are a depressed or stressed INFJ that's shadow type is ENTP.


I second that immensely.



INFJturnedENTP said:


> I'd love to spar with you Lykos..But I've been there and done that..How old are you?


What is this? An ENTP immediately turning down a chance for endless banter? Turning to a completely arbitrary and irrelevant fact, that is the age of the other person...

I think you're an INFJ, and I would treat you much better if you admitted it 

What a welcome parade we NTP types are offering!


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## INFJturnedENTP (Jan 10, 2009)

*Trying To Fit A Square Peg Into A Round Hole Might Not Be So Smart*

I don't know any other INFJs who invent contraptions. I have several. So there's more to learn about others than you may realize.
Just in case you forgot, I have said that I was an INFJ and am now an ENTP. So that's the dealio.


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## DayLightSun (Oct 30, 2008)

Hello there. Welcome


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## INFJturnedENTP (Jan 10, 2009)

daylightsun said:


> Hello there. Welcome


Hello. How long have you been posting?


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## Shai Gar (Jan 4, 2009)

Gday, how are you?


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## mcgooglian (Nov 12, 2008)

Welcome, and you can fit any shaped peg into any shaped hole if the hole is large enough.


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## Zulban (Nov 11, 2008)

INFJturnedENTP said:


> I don't know any other INFJs who invent contraptions.


I'm going to stop being so anal in the introduction thread right after I say this: I bet any MB type can be found doing any profession.


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## INFJturnedENTP (Jan 10, 2009)

Zulban said:


> I'm going to stop being so anal in the introduction thread right after I say this: I bet any MB type can be found doing any profession.


If someone tells themselves something enought times, they believe it. 

And, The biggest lies are the most believable. 
Adolf Hitler taught us that...Bad as it may seem.


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## Zulban (Nov 11, 2008)

INFJturnedENTP said:


> If someone tells themselves something enought times, they believe it.
> And, The biggest lies are the most believable.
> Adolf Hitler taught us that...Bad as it may seem.


Wait a second, a low blow, a vague motto and the hitler card all in one response? Where's my counter argument?

We should continue this in the battle thread or the debate thread maybe?


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## Trope (Oct 18, 2008)

INFJturnedENTP said:


> If someone tells themselves something enought times, they believe it.


That sword cuts both ways.


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## moon (Nov 29, 2008)

INFJturnedENTP said:


> If someone tells themselves something enought times, they believe it.


So you convince yourself of a lie & that makes it true? How does this work? Why lie to yourself? Wouldn't you know you were lying? Can you not see through your own self? This expression bites.


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## εmptε (Nov 20, 2008)

moonchild said:


> So you convince yourself of a lie & that makes it true? How does this work? Why lie to yourself? Wouldn't you know you were lying? Can you not see through your own self? This expression bites.


I don't often agree with INFPs but you get a A+.


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## INFJturnedENTP (Jan 10, 2009)

moonchild said:


> So you convince yourself of a lie & that makes it true? How does this work? Why lie to yourself? Wouldn't you know you were lying? Can you not see through your own self? This expression bites.


Maybe it wasn't clear...That's not what I was writing about nor the context of the comment...if you're referring to the quote "If someone tells themselves....." 

It's not directed as a reflection towards me. I am aware of my personality traits. That was for the reader..who was replying and frankly might rather have me put into a personality mold (given the words which were used in that post) if given the choice At this point there's no "remedy" needed. It is what it is...Here-Maybe this will shed some light on your interest:

-From Jung's Theory of Psychological Types and Human Theory:
_Jung thought that no one has a pure type. Jung felt that our typology is how we "adapt and orient" ourselves for survival. How the functions work together is more important than any one function on its own. Jung observed that typology occurs randomly. Jung thought that his analysands became exhausted and neurotic when their parents had imposed their type upon their children of different types. In fact, he felt that they could only be cured when they adopted the attitudes appropriate to their typology. Jung saw that some people do seem to change their typology or aspects of their typologies as they get older but that most people remain within their typology._


I don't know why someone is so insecure with abstract facts. They exist. Just because someone doesn't agree with someone (me) doesn't make one wrong!

That was the context of the comment. Not about me. It was for the reader to examine theirself. Do you see me trying to force my opinion on others? I don't do it..The facts offered are just facts..some do what they want with them..others don't read them...

There you have it.

I think Jung would be more qualified than me to answer your questions.


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## Zulban (Nov 11, 2008)

Jung offered that the MB type _may_ change over time. I wonder how this makes you certain you have changed rather quickly, and three out of four of your traits at that. None of us would have carried this so far had you not displayed traits less like ENTP and more like INFJ.

You should understand that the situation is just extremely suspicious to us, but luckily it does not matter. We can all look forward to you posting in other threads. I will of course unsubscribe now since I am done here


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## INFJturnedENTP (Jan 10, 2009)

Zulban said:


> Jung offered that the MB type _may_ change over time. I wonder how this makes you certain you have changed rather quickly, and three out of four of your traits at that. None of us would have carried this so far had you not displayed traits less like ENTP and more like INFJ.
> 
> You should understand that the situation is just extremely suspicious to us, but luckily it does not matter. We can all look forward to you posting in other threads. I will of course unsubscribe now since I am done here


I don't think 19 years is quick..I believe most people would agree with that. 
I recognize your curiousity. Thanks. 
Some people have a level of fear of the unknown...
...and Right..you can look forward to other postings. Great.
Thanks for the questions.


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