# Personal Reflections on the Enneagram



## starri (Jan 23, 2009)

Been introduced to the enneagram a couple months back and been shifting types on an almost monthly basis. Now here is my general take on the system and please write down your personal reflections as well.

Unlike MBTI enneagram is easier to misstype. While the MBTI provides you to a manual of your basic functions and ways your brain work -- which in turn provide for an *excuse* system for your actions, the enneagram reveals your hidden agenda. 

Profiles on the enneagram have less fluff than the MBTI, they directly out rightly point to our worst behaviors, our deepest fears and tells us how to overcome them. It *exposes* us more than the MBTI -- which is probably the reason for the phenomena of being hurt and affected when reading your correct profile. [occurred to me and some friends]

Common misstypes include [5 ~ 9], [3 ~ 7], [counterphobic 6 ~ 8] < those are the ones I have seen quite often.

Now another thing that I have noticed is that the title of the type usually is the thing most missing. Examples:

~ 7 - Stimulation Seeker; is in fact a person who is* numb* and needs to compulsively have interesting things going on alot of the time to escape that numbness. 

~ 6 - Security Seeker; is an insecure person who has too many doubts and worries that they need to either enjoy the comforts of faith in something or lash out on the world as a whole for it's failure to be genuine and to provide the security necessary.

~ 8 - Control Seeker; is in fact someone who is too afraid to be taken control of.

~ 3 - Image Seeker; has no internal compass of who they are, so they embody everyone's ideals. No sense of self.

Those are the ones that I have read about and dealt with quite a bit. I find that most of the people who brag and show off their enneagram type are ones that are misstyping. It's easier to show off a type that doesn't expose you. 

More reflections to be added later.


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## Sunless (Jul 30, 2009)

My type is so embarrassing


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## PeacePassion (Jun 9, 2009)

I think that's an important difference to comprehend, that MBTI deals with the functions of personality, and Enneagram with motivations. It really made something click when Trope pointed that out to me. It's not only the worst behaviours though, there's a positive side. I'm proud of being a 4w3, I think it describes me accurately even though on the unbalanced/negative side I'm full of:


> symbolic drama
> withdrawn melancholy
> self-indulgent disdain
> 
> ...


not a whole lot to be proud of there. though on the upside I'm full of: 



> inspired originality
> self-aware intuition
> subtle humanity


seems accurate to me. though I haven't spent a lot of time with other types yet, so we'll see! 

maybe it would help if you consider the positive aspects of the different types as well?


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## amberheadlights (May 16, 2009)

Sunless said:


> My type is so embarrassing


If it's any consolation to you, that's a sure-fire indication that you've typed yourself correctly :happy:
If a person is too proud of their type, then it probably isn't their type, it's probably a type that they're romanticizing. I was so embarrassed about my type (four) that after other fours told me I was a four, I questioned it. After my husband insisted I was a four, I questioned it. I went to two different enneagram "experts" trying to convince them I wasn't a four, both of whom insisted I was. I finally made peace with it, after going through all of my diaries, and seeing no other type could fit. Still, I get really squeamish when reading about the lower levels of health and especially when I encounter another four that's _in_ a lower level of health. I finally realized that the reason one becomes ashamed of their type is that they can_ see _the potential of the unhealthy traits in them and they can see just how it comes across to others. It's sort of like how the recovered alcoholic can't stand to be around the drunk, but the drunk still has the romanticized image of them having a fun, party lifestyle.


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## TreeBob (Oct 11, 2008)

amberheadlights said:


> If it's any consolation to you, that's a sure-fire indication that you've typed yourself correctly :happy:
> If a person is too proud of their type, then it probably isn't their type, it's probably a type that they're romanticizing. I was so embarrassed about my type (four) that after other fours told me I was a four, I questioned it. After my husband insisted I was a four, I questioned it. I went to two different enneagram "experts" trying to convince them I wasn't a four, both of whom insisted I was. I finally made peace with it, after going through all of my diaries, and seeing no other type could fit. Still, I get really squeamish when reading about the lower levels of health and especially when I encounter another four that's _in_ a lower level of health. I finally realized that the reason one becomes ashamed of their type is that they can_ see _the potential of the unhealthy traits in them and they can see just how it comes across to others. It's sort of like how the recovered alcoholic can't stand to be around the drunk, but the drunk still has the romanticized image of them having a fun, party lifestyle.


I find this whole embarrassed stuff a bit odd. I have read over all the descriptions briefly and they all have just as much embarrassing stuff as far as I can tell. It seems to depend on how healthy you are.


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## amberheadlights (May 16, 2009)

TreeBob said:


> I find this whole embarrassed stuff a bit odd. I have read over all the descriptions briefly and they all have just as much embarrassing stuff as far as I can tell. It seems to depend on how healthy you are.


The key is that the embarrassing stuff of other types doesn't have an impact on you. For example, the embarrassing stuff about three doesn't really phase me. I've known people like this, but it's not within the realm of possibility that I'll be like that, so if I read about unhealthy threes, or see unhealthy threes IRL, it doesn't make me squeamish the way it does with fours. My husband is a 7w8 and he's noticed something similar with him. In his case, the literature doesn't bother him, but being around sevens in the lower level of health does. 

Though,by descriptions, do you mean descriptions in the books or are you just referring to the information available on the web? I'm assuming a fair amount of familiarity with the literature (e.g. R&H's _Personality Types_, either of Maitri's books, Naranjo's _Character and Neurosis_, etc)and familiarity with people of the various types. Stuff found online or in books like Wagele and Baron's cartoony "intro" books probably doesn't go deep enough to elicit a strong reaction.


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## TreeBob (Oct 11, 2008)

amberheadlights said:


> Though,by descriptions, do you mean descriptions in the books or are you just referring to the information available on the web? I'm assuming a fair amount of familiarity with the literature (e.g. R&H's _Personality Types_, either of Maitri's books, Naranjo's _Character and Neurosis_, etc)and familiarity with people of the various types. Stuff found online or in books like Wagele and Baron's cartoony "intro" books probably doesn't go deep enough to elicit a strong reaction.


Yeah just online, mainly the Enneagram institute. I realize a book would be better but not many people really get that into to it get their number I don't think.


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## Sunless (Jul 30, 2009)

I think its especially embarrassing when you dont see how to overcome the negative side of your type. Also getting the news that the traits you are desperately trying to hide, happen to be so evident to everybody else. And an aggravating factor is when you cant see how you can be healthy if you put your Enneatype and your MBTI together, because the two dont make much sense.


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## openedskittles (May 24, 2009)

I understand that some could be upset about something they read about their type because they are (as you noted) much less complimentary than MBTI. I've seen others do similar things about issues involving all aspects of life, such as adjusting their political party, favorite sports teams, interests, or even values for a particular crowd.
However, I'm not one to trade truthfulness for emotional reinforcement.

I can relate to seeing Enneagram as an "*excuse* system for your actions" as I know I often use fairness as a universal decider (type 1), but I don't feel like I'm "being hurt" by any description. My problem lies in that you seem to suggest that the correct type will be threatening to us and that we will be compelled to avoid it and choose one that makes us feel good. It seems like a very feeleresque behavior to me and I think many NT's would agree that they can adequately set their emotions aside long enough to determine which type they truly are.

Then again, I read that ENTJs have a "sense of fairness" and ability to "step back" from a situation emotionally on a level that most simply don't. Perhaps it's just me.


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## TreeBob (Oct 11, 2008)

openedskittles said:


> I understand that some could be upset about something they read about their type because they are (as you noted) much less complimentary than MBTI. I've seen others do similar things about issues involving all aspects of life, such as adjusting their political party, favorite sports teams, interests, or even values for a particular crowd.
> However, I'm not one to trade truthfulness for emotional reinforcement.
> 
> I can relate to seeing Enneagram as an "*excuse* system for your actions" as I know I often use fairness as a universal decider (type 1), but I don't feel like I'm "being hurt" by any description. My problem lies in that you seem to suggest that the correct type will be threatening to us and that we will be compelled to avoid it and choose one that makes us feel good. It seems like a very feeleresque behavior to me and I think many NT's would agree that they can adequately set their emotions aside long enough to determine which type they truly are.
> ...


You might be right on this but I also know xNTP do this avoidance.


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## εmptε (Nov 20, 2008)

The problem is that the theory is much more complex than that Skittles. I didn't know how complex until I started getting into it, and when I found it was a more complex system with more thinking involved I got drawn in deeply. Most people still don't understand that you can't be a 7w1 or a 8w3, so how are they to know about subwings, variants, trifixes, trifix wings? How are they suppose to improve upon the system. Enneagram is a theory that is a lot more open. I have to finally go back to what bear said when he first got here and started typing people. *Enneagram is the better system.*


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## Funkydorae (May 23, 2009)

To be honest, when I first got into the Enneagram system I typed myself as a 2. 2w1 or 2w3. That was my preference. The description made me feel optimistic and as though I could do anything. But that's how I wanted to be not how I am. I scored with good scores with a few of the Enneagram types, but I kept getting 4w5 and the second highest would be 4w3 then the rest. I got depressed accepting it. The negative description made me feel doomed. I related to it way too much. I read about Enneagrams 3-4 years ago and just accepted that I am the Enneagram that I am. My approach is to try to better the bad side and even accept some of it and accentuate the good.

My friend an ISTJ is a 3w2. He is so driven and a workaholic...relentless in his pursuits. That is so admirable in my eyes. He also is very warm-hearted and goes out of his way to help others. I always try to take notes and be as confident and focused as he is. Great qualities I hope to try to incorporate into my life.


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## amberheadlights (May 16, 2009)

openedskittles said:


> My problem lies in that you seem to suggest that the correct type will be threatening to us and that we will be compelled to avoid it and choose one that makes us feel good. It seems like a very feeleresque behavior to me and I think many NT's would agree that they can adequately set their emotions aside long enough to determine which type they truly are.


Although the most "popular" mistypes do seem to be as four (usually by NFs) and five (usually by NTs). Mistyping is pretty equal opportunity among M-B types, I think. On the one hand, you're right, Fs are less likely to be objective, more likely to go on what "feels" right, so it's possible for self-deception to creep in here. On the other hand, Fs are more inclined to do things like consider the input of significant people in their lives when trying to type themselves and consider what's been mirrored back to them by others when determining what sort of issues they have. Ts can, as you said, set their emotions aside, but it's this very act of setting emotions aside that can also hinder self-knowledge, as less time is spent sorting through emotions, coming to terms with experiences, and gaining insight about the self that could potentially be used to determine one's fixation. 

I've been entertaining a theory that the types most likely to mistype themselves are the ones in the image triad, particularly double image types like 2w3, 3 (of either wing) and 4w3. My theory is that because the core issue of the image triad is confusing the image they project with who they are inside, that a type can be picked based on how it fits the image as opposed to the self. This seems to happen most with threes (esp 3w4s, who type themselves as four or five) but less occasionally, it will happen with 2w3 and 4w3 as well.


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## openedskittles (May 24, 2009)

I've done enough research that I feel confident that I have a grasp of what each type is truly about, but I admit I have not read much about mistyping. Thanks for the information.

I did notice that an NF friend of mine that I thought was a 9 was misled by the nicknames of each type even after she agreed that she was almost definitely a 9.


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## 480 (Jan 22, 2009)

amberheadlights said:


> Although the most "popular" mistypes do seem to be as four (usually by NFs) and five (usually by NTs). Mistyping is pretty equal opportunity among M-B types, I think. On the one hand, you're right, Fs are less likely to be objective, more likely to go on what "feels" right, so it's possible for self-deception to creep in here. On the other hand, Fs are more inclined to do things like consider the input of significant people in their lives when trying to type themselves and consider what's been mirrored back to them by others when determining what sort of issues they have. Ts can, as you said, set their emotions aside, but it's this very act of setting emotions aside that can also hinder self-knowledge, as less time is spent sorting through emotions, coming to terms with experiences, and gaining insight about the self that could potentially be used to determine one's fixation.
> 
> I've been entertaining a theory that the types most likely to mistype themselves are the ones in the image triad, particularly double image types like 2w3, 3 (of either wing) and 4w3. My theory is that because the core issue of the image triad is confusing the image they project with who they are inside, that a type can be picked based on how it fits the image as opposed to the self. This seems to happen most with threes (esp 3w4s, who type themselves as four or five) but less occasionally, it will happen with 2w3 and 4w3 as well.


I would also jump across the way to type 6... mostly because the 6 profiles are crap and make it sound like you have to get a hall pass from the teacher before you do anything. 6w5s specifically can be aggressive people and I find are often times blind to the kind of behaviors in themselves that are support seeking in nature. Add counter-phobics to the mix and no one likes being called a paranoid, scared, support seeker. So they look around, see type 8 and cling to it like a piece of flotsam. It doesnt help that the tests take that assertiveness and push it under the 8 column. Which adds a new level of irony when they show up arguing their type and say "but the test said...."


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## amberheadlights (May 16, 2009)

Bear said:


> I would also jump across the way to type 6... mostly because the 6 profiles are crap and make it sound like you have to get a hall pass from the teacher before you do anything. 6w5s specifically can be aggressive people and I find are often times blind to the kind of behaviors in themselves that are support seeking in nature. Add counter-phobics to the mix and no one likes being called a paranoid, scared, support seeker. So they look around, see type 8 and cling to it like a piece of flotsam. It doesnt help that the tests take that assertiveness and push it under the 8 column. Which adds a new level of irony when they show up arguing their type and say "but the test said...."


Yeah, the six descriptions are just horrible, especially by Riso and Hudson. Reading _Personality Types_, I can't help but wonder if one (or both) of them didn't have a bad relationship with a six, it's so incredibly biased. I think Maitri does a decent job with six, especially in _The Enneagram of Passions and Virtues. _Almaas does a pretty good job of giving a well balanced, informative descrption of six as well. 

When my dad came to visit awhile back, I tried to figure out his enneagram type. I'd always figured he was either a three or an eight but when I had him take the RHETI sampler, he sat there and agonized over each question, thinking of multiple scenarios in which either could fit, and his results were all over the chart. This got me thinking of six, since I've read that sixes often run into that exact problem when testing. I went through some descriptions in PTs of type/wing combos with him, none of which fit. I didn't want to read type six to him, though, since the descriptions are so bad, so I just explained it to him myself, and he quickly identified himself as six. So, he'd be the CP 6w5 type that can get confused with eight.


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## 480 (Jan 22, 2009)

amberheadlights said:


> Yeah, the six descriptions are just horrible, especially by Riso and Hudson. Reading _Personality Types_, I can't help but wonder if one (or both) of them didn't have a bad relationship with a six, it's so incredibly biased. I think Maitri does a decent job with six, especially in _The Enneagram of Passions and Virtues. _Almaas does a pretty good job of giving a well balanced, informative descrption of six as well.
> 
> When my dad came to visit awhile back, I tried to figure out his enneagram type. I'd always figured he was either a three or an eight but when I had him take the RHETI sampler, he sat there and agonized over each question, thinking of multiple scenarios in which either could fit, and his results were all over the chart. This got me thinking of six, since I've read that sixes often run into that exact problem when testing. I went through some descriptions in PTs of type/wing combos with him, none of which fit. I didn't want to read type six to him, though, since the descriptions are so bad, so I just explained it to him myself, and he quickly identified himself as six. So, he'd be the CP 6w5 type that can get confused with eight.


Since realizing he is a CP 6w5... have you been able to spot any lines of distinction between 6 and 8? Kind of like you never noticed a certain model of car until you buy one, now you see them all over the place.


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## amberheadlights (May 16, 2009)

Bear said:


> Since realizing he is a CP 6w5... have you been able to spot any lines of distinction between 6 and 8? Kind of like you never noticed a certain model of car until you buy one, now you see them all over the place.


Sort of, though being more familiar with eight helped me to rule out eight for him when I saw how much he was second-guessing his answers. My husband has a strong eight wing, and his mom's an eight, so I had a decent familiarity with how that played out. It was more a case of stepping back, hearing how my dad talked about himself and answered my questions, and realizing how much anxiety was underlying the tough exterior. It did give me a better sense of type six in general, especially the NT six, though I think it worked more in the opposite direction...figuring out that he was a six helped me to understand him better.


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## Mikbert (Jul 19, 2009)

I end up as a 5 everytime and by reading simple descriptions, I recognize myself almost fully, it's almost scary 

http://www.lessons4living.com/enneagram5.htm

http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/typefive.asp

Although, what saddens me is that I recognize myself mostly in the "Low functioning" and "Unhealthy levels" of the spectrum, even though I almost fit the overview description perfectly.


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## 480 (Jan 22, 2009)

Mikbert said:


> I end up as a 5 everytime and by reading simple descriptions, I recognize myself almost fully, it's almost scary
> 
> Enneagram Type Five
> 
> ...


Based just off your avatar I'd say 5w4. 

Do you know much about the differences in the wings, and if so do you relate more to the 5w4?


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