# Shame!



## Parrot (Feb 22, 2015)

Quernus said:


> An ENTP 739? Yeah, it can be hard to tell the difference sometimes
> 
> But I really am curious. If no, it says a lot about you. *If yes, well, that's about all there is to say.*


In regards to the bold, I must have skipped over it before. Interesting that you're willing to put people in a box like that. Apparently your 4 sense of depth only applies to some people. That attitude is the kind that I love seeing be put to shame. What you consider to be awareness is really closeminded. And that closemindedness is what makes you a target for others. Why treat someone with respect when they consider others to be unworthy of it, too. It goes both ways


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## Stellafera (Jan 19, 2015)

Drunk Parrot said:


> In regards to the bold, I must have skipped over it before. Interesting that you're willing to put people in a box like that. Apparently your 4 sense of depth only applies to some people. That attitude is the kind that I love seeing be put to shame. What you consider to be awareness is really closeminded. And that closemindedness is what makes you a target for others. Why treat someone with respect when they consider others to be unworthy of it, too. It goes both ways


Sociopathy isn't really a "let's all be tolerant of each other" thing, it's a roundly negative trait society-wise to have people with no regard for others' emotions. Having a negative opinion about sociopaths is normal.

Additionally, bringing in Quernus's type into this is irrelevant. 4s aren't any deeper than the rest of us.


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## Parrot (Feb 22, 2015)

Stellafera said:


> Sociopathy isn't really a "let's all be tolerant of each other" thing, it's a roundly negative trait society-wise to have people with no regard for others' emotions. Having a negative opinion about sociopaths is normal.
> 
> Additionally, bringing in Quernus's type into this is irrelevant. 4s aren't any deeper than the rest of us.


I'm not simply a sociopath. And treating these things negatively is no different than reciprocal negativity. But "good" people can circle jerk to the thought of how good they are.

http://personalitycafe.com/debate-forum/656258-part-iii-psychopathy-empathy.html


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## Stellafera (Jan 19, 2015)

Drunk Parrot said:


> I'm not simply a sociopath. And treating these things negatively is no different than reciprocal negativity. But "good" people can circle jerk to the thought of how good they are.
> 
> http://personalitycafe.com/debate-forum/656258-part-iii-psychopathy-empathy.html


Hm, opinion changed. Interesting perspective.


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## Quernus (Dec 8, 2011)

Drunk Parrot said:


> In regards to the bold, I must have skipped over it before. Interesting that you're willing to put people in a box like that. Apparently your 4 sense of depth only applies to some people. That attitude is the kind that I love seeing be put to shame. What you consider to be awareness is really closeminded. And that closemindedness is what makes you a target for others. Why treat someone with respect when they consider others to be unworthy of it, too. It goes both ways


Shush. I know what you're trying to do and it's not working.

If you were a sociopath, you would have no empathy, by definition, and there would be no point trying to further analyze or discuss your immature, disturbing, problematic behavior. Sociopaths simply don't care. It's not a box I'm creating, it's literally part of the diagnosis.

If you're not a sociopath, I'd be intrigued to delve further into your mind because there's hope for you to actually grow and change (or, if not change, understand something on a deeper level... or, allow me to understand something on a different level, even if you don't. I love psyches). People with empathy do terrible things and nothing justifies it - but it changes the discussion a little.

The original things you said, sounded truly sociopathic. I wasn't joking around there. The enneagram reference was a joke. But I had to check. Many sociopaths have no problem admitting they're sociopaths, so it didn't seem a lost cause. However, those with a So-dom instinct might become agitated that they're being outed (or any other sociopath that stands something to lose by people realizing what they are). 

Anyway, I'm not accusing you of being one or not. You just literally sounded like one.


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## Quernus (Dec 8, 2011)

Quernus said:


> Shush. I know what you're trying to do and it's not working.
> 
> If you were a sociopath, you would have no empathy, by definition, and there would be no point trying to further analyze or discuss your immature, disturbing, problematic behavior. Sociopaths simply don't care. It's not a box I'm creating, it's literally part of the diagnosis.
> 
> ...


Further, I understood I could have tried a different approach - calling out the behavior and explaining why it's absurd and detrimental. But a sociopath wouldn't care if they're hurting someone else so it would be a waste of my time. You would just pounce on it like a game. Trying to have a discussion (with a sociopath) on the complexities and nuances of shame, human emotions, relations, would be a waste of my time. I'm not saying it's objectively a waste of time but I can't personally be bothered, for a number of reasons.


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## Bunny (Jul 11, 2015)

=/


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## Quernus (Dec 8, 2011)

Drunk Parrot said:


> I'm not simply a sociopath. And treating these things negatively is no different than reciprocal negativity. But "good" people can circle jerk to the thought of how good they are.
> 
> http://personalitycafe.com/debate-forum/656258-part-iii-psychopathy-empathy.html


Okay, after reviewing your posts and knowing that you do tout yourself as a psychopath who thinks that is a constructive force for society, this is the last thing I'll say:

No, the types of negativity aren't the same. That's like people who say "people of color who resent white people for resenting people of color are no better than the white people in the first place", for example.

A psychopath has no regard for anyone else's feelings, autonomy, or well-being. And they will not change that. They're proud of it.

Someone calling that out as destructive and not wanting to bother with it, is pretty different. I'm not saying sociopaths don't have basic human rights, or that empath-having people don't mess up, the point is that one can be rehabilitated and one cannot. It limits the realistic goals one might have when trying to interact with a person (true connection, growth, learning, developing trust, etc).

You seem to have made this thread just to mess with people's feelings. I see through what you're trying to do to me and how you're trying to bait me. ****I'll exit now, for my own good****. I encourage everyone else who doesn't have extensive experience or who hasn't already done extensive research on the topics of sociopathology, psychopathology, and clinical narcissism to look into it before you waste your time (or worse) trying to reason with or defend yourself against this kind of game.

***edit- Actually there is one more thing I want to say on the topic once I have time, right now unfortunately I do not. Reminding myself.


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## Rose for a Heart (Nov 14, 2011)

@*Drunk Parrot* you are not fooling anyone, thinking back to the threads you made, I believe you were trying to say that psychopathy being destructive is actually a "good" thing for the society. No.



Drunk Parrot said:


> Most emotions that normal people feel seem unnecessary, to me. The depth of feeling that comes from despair or self-actualization, however, is beautiful to me. When a person is broken and full of despair, then empaths can be there to build the person up. But there are moments when a person denies the darkness and clings to the lie of their false ego. *The role of psychopathy, the purpose of what I am, is to break the person (Note: I'm not suggesting psychopaths should go out murdering and robbing people). If God exists, then that is why psychopaths exist. Maintaining a wonderful life is not the path to enlightenment. A muscle grows after tearing first. Your soul cannot grow unless it has first been broken. If you have been seriously hurt by a psychopath/sociopath/narcissist, then wrap yourself up in the pain. Contemplate it, brood on it, become it...then release it. Only through real suffering can real joy be experienced. Because, if it isn't real, then I don't care nor respect it.
> *


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## Parrot (Feb 22, 2015)

@Quernus & @Rose for a Heart neither one of you know what you're talking about. Still, discussions like these are enjoyable and reveals a lot about human nature. The only game, here, is where I rip apart your worldview that seems to be precious to you. Otherwise, this thread was just a satirical take on an aspect of human nature that is foreign to me. I could do the same with fear and anger.

Your judgment tells a lot about you. Don't be so quick to assume you know what my end game is. In the meantime, read some more or whatever. You two are merely novices misappropriating what I've said. And I have no problem doing the same back to you in return. To @Stellafera , I won't do that and have no problem having an intellectual conversation with her. She showed me respect and I value that in someone.


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## Parrot (Feb 22, 2015)

For reference, I've been binge watching clips of the Steve Wilkos show where they do lie detector results and DNA tests. It's been intriguing as I view the reactions of people after the results and how they react to shame in particular. It's just been on my mind, for awhile.


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## Rose for a Heart (Nov 14, 2011)

@Drunk Parrot

Abuse cannot be justified, as simple as that. And the fact that you are calling that "just breaking the person to build them up" is disturbing.


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## Parrot (Feb 22, 2015)

Rose for a Heart said:


> @Drunk Parrot
> 
> Abuse cannot be justified, as simple as that. And the fact that you are calling that "just breaking the person to build them up" is disturbing.


So one has ever used shame to cause a change in a person's behavior for their own good? Or tapped into fear or their anger?


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## Quernus (Dec 8, 2011)

Drunk Parrot said:


> @*Quernus* & @*Rose for a Heart* neither one of you know what you're talking about. Still, discussions like these are enjoyable and reveals a lot about human nature. The only game, here, is where I rip apart your worldview that seems to be precious to you. Otherwise, this thread was just a satirical take on an aspect of human nature that is foreign to me. I could do the same with fear and anger.
> 
> Your judgment tells a lot about you. Don't be so quick to assume you know what my end game is. In the meantime, read some more or whatever. You two are merely novices misappropriating what I've said. And I have no problem doing the same back to you in return. To @*Stellafera* , I won't do that and have no problem having an intellectual conversation with her. She showed me respect and I value that in someone.


Shhh, lmao.

I was going to write a list (for the sake of everyone else) of all the tactical things you've already done so far to manipulate people, but it's just not worth it.

For the last time - if anyone ever would like to discuss the topic of manipulative, often sociopathic people with me, from a clinical perspective or otherwise, feel free to PM. I've survived some nonsense and it's my field of study and work. I'm not inviting people to talk about this particular individual, but I do warn you to be careful here. He is a self-admitted psychopath in other posts and if you do even a little bit of research you will begin to see some scary patterns within this very thread. PS- I am glad your definition of "showing respect" is to have someone agree with you after they read one creepy and tactical post you make (which doesn't stand out as any particularly exceptional mindf*ck compared to others who do similar things, but sadly it's effective in a lot of cases)

I'm going to be blocking him personally so I wont see any more posts from him.


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## Parrot (Feb 22, 2015)

Whatever

The idea she's on a mission to save people, so pathetic. But yes, please PM her to learn how to never interact with evil ever.


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## The Dude (May 20, 2010)

Rose for a Heart said:


> @Drunk Parrot
> 
> Abuse cannot be justified, as simple as that. And the fact that you are calling that "just breaking the person to build them up" is disturbing.


Disagree...interventions are basically shaming and emotional manipulation. Shaming just to be a dick is wrong. Shaming for improvement isn't wrong. The issue is that unless the person doing the shaming is open on their intentions, the appearance of it makes them look like a bad person.


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## Quernus (Dec 8, 2011)

The Dude said:


> Disagree...interventions are basically shaming and emotional manipulation. Shaming just to be a dick is wrong. Shaming for improvement isn't wrong. The issue is that unless the person doing the shaming is open on their intentions, the appearance of it makes them look like a bad person.


Interventions aren't shaming, though the person often feels ashamed. There is sadly a lot of hidden shame that drives something like an addiction, for example. Interventions are hardly abuse, because they're not using mind games such as gas lighting and other secretive BS for personal gain.

People do publicly call out someone's faults and express the ways in which the addict etc has hurt them, in front of everyone, and I suppose one should usually expect that to be shameful though it's not the point. And omst of the time, the addict is ashamed tht people saw through them/how out of control they were all along - still not the intention. You're right, making the intention clear "we are doings this because we see XYZ and want you to get help" is different than doing it for ones own fun, rationalizing to themselves in secret. The idea of breaking someone down to build them up can be very creepy when you're doing it simply to feel powerful, like the improved person is now an extension of you. Breaking someone down (more like catching them at rock bottom, such as in an intervention) and telling them you believe in them, wanting them to do well for their own sake because you love them, while also being upfront and respecting their autonomy (yes you give them consequences for their choices but they still have choices, which are all out on the table -- AND The choices are relevant to the choice-giver's well-being as well, therefore more justified).... well, that's just totally different. And it is not abuse.

In an intervention you're not screwing with someone and trying to take credit for their positives or their strengths, you're calling on them to find it within themselves through pure honesty, rawness, and openness -- otherwise you walk away, because you can no longer allow YOURSELF to be abused by the addict. For your own good and because you care. Emphasizing how much you care is also key to success.

Spotting a perceived "weakness" in someone and exploiting it, without regard for how they might actually feel about it or whether or not they think it's a problem, is ....very different from seeing someone who is clearly struggling and who has failed to get better, time and time again, and is totally out of control about their problem. Preying on someone in a recovery group where you're supposed to be equals in vulnerability, well, it's creepy.

In an intervention, you're not threatening or offering to change your perception of someone else's worth based on whether their behavior matches your liking or ideals. If done correctly, it's giving unconditional positive regard + consequences that affect the actual relationship.


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## Rose for a Heart (Nov 14, 2011)

@*The Dude*

Psychopaths by definition aren't capable of love, so they aren't capable of "intervention." Looks like he is trying to justify abuse to me.
@Drunk Parrot corrected it. I still stand by what I said even if manipulation through sympathy wasn't your intention.


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## Parrot (Feb 22, 2015)

Rose for a Heart said:


> @The Dude
> 
> Psychopaths by definition aren't capable of love, so they aren't capable of "intervention." Looks like he is trying to justify abuse to me, and I initially fell for it because I felt bad for him.


What the hell are you talking about? Why would I want you to feel bad for me?? I reject any sympathy you might have.

@Rose for a Heart I'm only answering you because you came on my thread to infer I'm manipulating you. I don't want anyone to feel sorry for me, least of all you. I will mock you to your face and have nothing to hide. I have no shame for my actions nor guilt for crimes.

But yeah, incapable of an intervention, probably true.

Anyway, let's talk about your hidden shame.

I also went ahead and put Q on my ignore list. Please reach out to her for any of you with pitiful victimhood


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## Quernus (Dec 8, 2011)

oh, we were talking about interventions for sociopaths? lmao clearly I have not read the full thread and I can no longer see Drunk Parrot's posts anyway.

Listen, guys, research it. Antisocial personality disorder, psychopathy etc. Unfortunately there is currently no way to rehabilitate - at least nothing that has yet been documented.  It's a fascinating disorder to be honest, I do hope someday there will be a breakthrough but so much of it is psycho-biological/from birth, the brain of a psychopath lacks the faculties necessary for rehabilitating their problem. It's a very safeguarded and warpy brain. So far. Maybe surgery could help in the future, we wonder.


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## Rose for a Heart (Nov 14, 2011)

@Quernus I don't really know the concept of intervention, it just seemed to me like @The Dude was confusing actions based on love ("intervention") or at very least caring, with psychopathic "just for fun" abuse/manipulation.


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## Quernus (Dec 8, 2011)

Rose for a Heart said:


> @*Quernus* I don't really know the concept of intervention, it just seemed to me like @*The Dude* was confusing actions based on love ("intervention") or at very least caring, with psychopathic "just for fun" abuse/manipulation.


Oh. I thought he was referring to drug interventions, and the like, where the loved ones of the addict stage an intervention where they are forced to sit down, hear all their loves ones speak about how they have been affected, why it's such a problem. Treatment is usually set up and the addict has a choice to go right then and there, otherwise there are consequences (like losing custody of their child, someone walking away from their life because they can't deal with the co-dependency any longer etc). I suppose from one angle someone could say that's a form of breaking someone down to build them up but again - it's more like a pre-existing, clear, obvious, maladaptive, life-threatening problem is called into the open and the person is offered help/choices whether or not to help themselves once and for all. And then they're sent off to professionals for treatment - it's not just un-clinical advice and coaching from some high and mighty schmuck off the street who deems himself worthy of being their master for no real pressing reason.

The OP called me a novice to all this but I'm really anything but. Everything I've read of the OP (in this thread) is completely typical, textbook, and unimpressive from this standpoint (but very intricate and nuanced, good thing I'm used to it). Then I went and read his other posts where he basiclaly self-proclaims to be a psychopath and hashes out the same old arguments that they always do about how they're truly the ones being persecuted bla blabla. No no, no. I've dealt with all these sorts of things in clinical and professional capacities before, plus my own life has been ruined by sociopaths and I've had to learn a lot through my own recovery from that. Now I won't ever be fooled again (--I hope. But at the very least I know how to spot them pretty immediately on online forums... how productive). Sigh. It's really sad.

If he's still pulling the "I'm on the autism spectrum" BS, laugh it off. So am I (on the spectrum), so are many other people, fully capable of empathy and more importantly NOT exploiting others/using mind games/ spinning and changing their words and stories to confuse people and uphold certain images.


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## Clayfighter (Jun 21, 2016)

As far as building up someones confidence goes? Thats a little difficult. Especially when its something they have to do on their own.

You can only help people that are willing to help themselves. You can provide them with the tools, but they may not use those tools. I personally find it to be a challenge and actually do try to do this myself, I have had success on some level but not really that much.

I would love to be a life-coach. Being able to problem-solve all day and use persuasion for good? Sounds like a positively rewarding experience to me. And there would always be something to learn.


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## Parrot (Feb 22, 2015)

@Blind Traveler thanks for coming, these wishy washy 4s are ruining this thread


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## Quernus (Dec 8, 2011)

Blind Traveler said:


> As far as building up someones confidence goes? Thats a little difficult. Especially when its something they have to do on their own.
> 
> You can only help people that are willing to help themselves. You can provide them with the tools, but they may not use those tools. I personally find it to be a challenge and actually do try to do this myself, I have had success on some level but not really that much.
> 
> I would love to be a life-coach. Being able to problem-solve all day and use persuasion for good? Sounds like a positively rewarding experience to me. And there would always be something to learn.


Yes - key - they have to be willling to help themselves. They have to be granted autonomy, be given full disclosure of credentials and intentions, learn their other options, see the scope of what they're dealing with.... so on and so forth. It is different from being tricked into thinking there is something wrong with them when they're vulnerable to begin with. Were you a life coach, you would be a professional. Someone would be choosing to utilize you. It would be a professional relationship, to prevent warped power dynamics like what happens when some doofus decides he knows best and wants to see how far he can push someone (even under the guise of "for their benefit") when it's really for his own glee/feeling of superiority/power/whatever it is they get off on.

The OP's original story of helping someone stand up for himself and shine and grow, etc, doesn't sound bad, maybe it wouldn't be too destructive. But it's the perspective, intention, and warped sense of power that is scary. Especially when they use similar tactics to hurt, in other cases.


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## Clayfighter (Jun 21, 2016)

@Quernus

Everyone uses tactics to hurt people. They just arent aware of it.

Also everyone else uses tactics to hurt people and then they justify it by their own superiority. Dont think you're better just because you're different. We all have our own perspectives in this world, and that is all we can go by.

Dont mention the fact that when someone takes something personally, it is on them. That is their perception of the world allowing them to get hurt. No one created those wounds, they just touched them with their words.


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## Quernus (Dec 8, 2011)

Blind Traveler said:


> @*Quernus*
> 
> Everyone uses tactics to hurt people. They just arent aware of it.
> 
> ...


Yes, everyone uses tactics to get what they want and sometimes hurt people. The difference is that people with empathy can learn, feel bad about it, and change so they stop doing it. I don't think I'm a great person, I just think I'm not a sociopath and I have no tolerance for this.

Read up on psychological and emotional abuse and manipulation which ruins lives. It's a little different than outright having your feelings hurt by someone else's words, although I think it's gross and borderline gaslighting to argue that someone should only blame themselves when they're hurt by the actions of others who betray them etc. That attitude is complicit in victim-blaming, a concept I'm sure you're not familiar with and will tell me I'm just victimizing myself bla bla bla but this isn't about me.

Why don't people research before speaking? Do you need me to google for you? I don't think you have much to teach me about psychology, cognitive dissonance, biases, etc. I know. (If I'm wrong there, feel free to teach, I like to learn new concepts). And I know I'm flawed. But it's not equivalent to someone who literally cannot feel empathy and lives their life trying to make gains on others - this is the definition of a sociopath in general.


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## Bunny (Jul 11, 2015)

Helping someone is helping someone even if a person does it to make themselves feel better.
They are still putting in an effort in order to help an individual and I don't see that as wrong. 
Psychopath or not people often helps others and feel good about doing it in the process.
You can often see someone doing something like charity work then talk about how positive they felt about that.


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## Clayfighter (Jun 21, 2016)

Quernus said:


> Yes, everyone uses tactics to get what they want and sometimes hurt people. The difference is that people with empathy can learn, feel bad about it, and change so they stop doing it. I don't think I'm a great person, I just think I'm not a sociopath and I have no tolerance for this.
> 
> Read up on psychological and emotional abuse and manipulation which ruins lives. It's a little different than outright having your feelings hurt by someone else's words, although I think it's gross and borderline gaslighting to argue that someone should only blame themselves when they're hurt by the actions of others who betray them etc. That attitude is complicit in victim-blaming, a concept I'm sure you're not familiar with and will tell me I'm just victimizing myself bla bla bla but this isn't about me.
> 
> Why don't people research before speaking? Do you need me to google for you?


Lol, its not a matter of victim blaming.

I would never tell a victim it is their fault.

I would however explain how the world works and how they will never have to feel that way again.

Im not going to go through an exhaustive step by step list because most times the answers have to be personally tailored to the individual.

I know plenty about manipulation and psychological and emotional abuse. I understand that you dont know me and are making assumptions but that is part of the problem.

I read a book recently to understand why people feel blame, shame, and other negative things that prevent them from living life.

I learned a few things from it.

Making assumptions about things, taking things personally, and not striving to do your best are a few things that will always cause you to feel blame and guilt.

For the most part I try not to do those things but I can see why that would lead people to go crazy. The mind will take a small assumption and extrapolate a million conclusions from it and fit every detail in their reality to fit the conclusion they have already chosen to accept.

You have made other assumptions in your posts about people with cluster B personality disorders.

I dont think you understand what it is like to have the obstacles that they do in life.


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## Quernus (Dec 8, 2011)

Anyway, I'm sorry for wasting so much time on this.  It's too complicated and fiery a topic, and for my own sake again I really will be bowing out now. Open to PMs about the topic in general since it's fascinating to me and I have plenty of resources for anyone interested or who might be in trouble. <3


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## Quernus (Dec 8, 2011)

Blind Traveler said:


> Lol, its not a matter of victim blaming.
> 
> I would never tell a victim it is their fault.
> 
> ...


But it's like LITERALLY victim-blaming, lmao, if you tell someone who has been emotionally abused "you should have chosen not to be bothered"... Actually I really have no idea how much you know on the topic, just that what you said is missing the point.


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## Clayfighter (Jun 21, 2016)

Quernus said:


> But it's like LITERALLY victim-blaming, lmao, if you tell someone who has been emotionally abused "you should have chosen not to be bothered"... Actually I really have no idea how much you know on the topic, just that what you said is missing the point.


No I think you are missing the point actually. I would not say dont bother, or you shouldnt have bothered.

I would explain how you can not be affected, and not let it bother you again. Isnt that a lot different than saying....get over it?!?!?!?


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## Parrot (Feb 22, 2015)

I'm sure the view is pretty from self-righteous mountain, these days.


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## Rose for a Heart (Nov 14, 2011)

Blind Traveler said:


> @*Quernus*
> 
> Everyone uses tactics to hurt people. They just arent aware of it.
> 
> Also everyone else uses tactics to hurt people and then they justify it by their own superiority. Dont think you're better just because you're different. We all have our own perspectives in this world, and that is all we can go by.


Well i don't care how superior it makes me? If I hurt someone, I should be stopped. And I hold everyone else to the same standard. Point is to STOP the manipulation. That's one of the reasons I was interested in the enneagram (or psychology in general) in the first place. 



> Dont mention the fact that when someone takes something personally, it is on them. That is their perception of the world allowing them to get hurt. No one created those wounds, they just touched them with their words.


well people don't exist in a vacuum, some of us have self-esteem issues, some of us have issues with being too self-effacing in the face of strong emotion/demands from the other person. "They just touched them with their words" LOL


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## Clayfighter (Jun 21, 2016)

Rose for a Heart said:


> Well i don't care how superior it makes me? If I hurt someone, I should be stopped. And I hold everyone else to the same standard. Point is to STOP the manipulation. That's one of the reasons I was interested in the enneagram (or psychology in general) in the first place.
> 
> 
> 
> well people don't exist in a vacuum, some of us have self-esteem issues, some of us have issues with being too self-effacing in the face of strong emotion/demands from the other person. "They just touched them with their words" LOL


Question: Why do you contradict yourself in your post. You say that you should be stopped if you hurt someone and think its a joke that you dont use your superiority as a card you play.

You're claiming superiority by taking the moral high ground and saying this way is better, then you say people have self-esteem issues etc and go on to act like you understand what that means.

Then you quote something I said and mocked it with capital letters. You dont think you're trying to hurt me by doing that?

I mean it obviously isnt working, im just curious as to why you're trying. It is apparent you are unaware of your own actions.

EDIT: By the way, what you were laughing at was a piece of Toltec wisdom. It just proves you dont understand it. Thats not my fault, if you dont want to be receptive thats on you.


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## Rose for a Heart (Nov 14, 2011)

@Blind Traveler I am sorry for the mocking tone, but this:



> _Dont mention the fact that when someone takes something personally, it is on them. That is their perception of the world allowing them to get hurt. No one created those wounds, they just touched them with their words._


_

is frankly unreasonable. Obviously I can't speak for everyone who struggles with this, but yes I do know what it's like to have your image depend on other people (low self-esteem). Do not assume I don't. And people like this are exactly the kind that are going to fall for the stuff you said...and that is hurtful and worrying for me. _


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## Clayfighter (Jun 21, 2016)

Rose for a Heart said:


> @Blind Traveler I am sorry for the mocking tone, but this:
> 
> 
> 
> is frankly unreasonable. Obviously I can't speak for everyone who struggles with this, but yes I do know what it's like to have your image depend on other people (low self-esteem). Do not assume I don't. And people like this are exactly the kind that are going to fall for the stuff you said...and that is hurtful and worrying for me. [/I][/COLOR]


Hmmm I dont see how.

When I say it is on them, I dont mean they are the victim and the one responsible for being blamed. I say it is on them to mean it is based on their perceptions. I think there is a miscommunication here.

When someone attacks another person they are taking it personally, the victim gets attacked, the one who is attacking has the personal problem, and the damage results.

So when I say dont take it personally, I mean that the victim has the right to feel hurt, if that is what they choose, but they should also be able to know that what they said is not personal to them. Even if the words were tailored to be an attack in that manner.

mostly, I am referring to both parties though, but in different ways.

I think that many people are assuming Im talking about the victim when I am talking about the one who is attacking. We all project our realities onto others, so it can get confusing sometimes determining who is feeling what. They both are feeling similar things in my opinion, one is attacking the other is perceiving the attack as truth to their insecurities and vulnerabilities, they trust the attack and think its what they deserve, because of who they are.


EDIT: Also the saying about the wounds is to express a point in reference to a situation where someone feels personally attacked or offended when someone is not trying to attack them. They may be trying to help, but they get offended because they have wounds, and it hurts to get better or to be exposed to your fears, even if its not directly. I used the example because of what I sensed from everyone here, that sense told me a lot of people were offended.

The point of the quote is not to let other people harm you when they play the role of being victimized. It works both ways, playing the victim can hurt other people just as attacking the victim can.

There is a truth that can resolve both of the situations.


----------



## Zelz (Dec 29, 2014)

Edit: I got side tracked. :laughing:

I am thinking about transgender issues and people who call out insecurities of others.

Someone used public shame on my friend once (they are both Fe introverted feelers). It looks really bad on the person doing it (sensor). But I guess it depends on if I feel the shame is warranted. Even then, as a third party, I may or may not want to know people's business.

But thinking back, I got publically shamed 2x, but I felt fine. And I kinda like the public banning forum when I need entertainment. Well, I am not a 2, so.....


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## Annie Anthonio (Sep 27, 2014)

Drunk Parrot said:


> Shame is so much fun to play with in others. It's amusing how much words of affirmation can build someone's confidence just as much as my degradation can tear them down. 2s & 4s are especially fragile and it's intriguing when I interact with them. Just by yelling "shame" at them, I can see them cringe in horror. It's beautiful. But it can be pleasant to twist it positively. 3s are not as interesting, would rather not hear them brag about accomplishments.
> 
> There's this guy, in a recovery group I go to, named Bill. Bill is an ESFJ 2w3. A lot of what he shares is in regards to shame (This specific group is broad in "recovery"). He talks about being abandoned by his father, when he was young and feeling like he's letting his family down. When I talked to him, he told me his nickname, at work, is "Just Bill". I told him that was pathetic and that I will call him "Cool Bill" because he's much better than that. "Just Bill" makes him a pushover and "He should know he's worth more than that!" I'm expecting, over the next several months, to assist him as he grows in confidence and integrates to have deeper awareness of what makes him special. I imagine it'll be entertaining and a much bigger challenge than tearing him down. Not to mention, does me no good to be a dick in the group.
> 
> Thanks 2s & 4s for being fun to play with!


Try too hard. Sweet heart. 

I remember you. You are that ****** who came to my thread in my old account may be a year ago? You were like "oh fun! Another psychopath thread. I want to play!" How cheesy. I replied "Fuck off ******"(I meant, whatever, sure, game on, ******) You said you wanted to play but you responsed like a *** and went on citing some definition of psychopath like a sensative hole while no one gave a crap and moved on because we weren't on the sensative part of the forum. But then my thread was flagged and the first person I though of was that sensative ***. Pretty sure that is why you are here to provoke the tender heart sensative people who are giving you plenty of validation of your trying very very hard to be a "psychopathy". (Sounds fictional to me)

I'm annoyed by the white knights and victim hood but you are easier to get crushed than them. I'm more amused to watch you fight and then feel a bit guilty of playing you, and it's funny I never feel guilty of cutting down the Heros wannabe but you? You are a sad sad story.


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## Parrot (Feb 22, 2015)

Annie Anthonio said:


> Try too hard. Sweet heart.
> 
> I remember you. *You are that ******* who came to my thread in my old account may be a year ago? You were like "oh fun! Another psychopath thread. I want to play!" How cheesy. *I replied "Fuck off ******"*(I meant, whatever, sure, game on, ******) You said you wanted to play but you responsed like a *** and went on citing some definition of psychopath like a sensative hole while no one gave a crap and moved on because we weren't on the sensative part of the forum. But then my thread was flagged and the first person I though of was that sensative ***. Pretty sure that is why you are here to provoke the tender heart sensative people who are giving you plenty of validation of your trying very very hard to be a "psychopathy". (Sounds fictional to me)
> 
> I'm annoyed by the white knights and victim hood but you are easier to get crushed than them. I'm more amused to watch you fight and then feel a bit guilty of playing you, and it's funny I never feel guilty of cutting down the Heros wannabe but you? You are a sad sad story.


Thanks for the kind words! :happy:


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## FearAndTrembling (Jun 5, 2013)

Annie Anthonio said:


> Try too hard. Sweet heart.
> 
> I remember you. You are that ****** who came to my thread in my old account may be a year ago? You were like "oh fun! Another psychopath thread. I want to play!" How cheesy. I replied "Fuck off ******"(I meant, whatever, sure, game on, ******) You said you wanted to play but you responsed like a *** and went on citing some definition of psychopath like a sensative hole while no one gave a crap and moved on because we weren't on the sensative part of the forum. But then my thread was flagged and the first person I though of was that sensative ***. Pretty sure that is why you are here to provoke the tender heart sensative people who are giving you plenty of validation of your trying very very hard to be a "psychopathy". (Sounds fictional to me)
> 
> I'm annoyed by the white knights and victim hood but you are easier to get crushed than them. I'm more amused to watch you fight and then feel a bit guilty of playing you, and it's funny I never feel guilty of cutting down the Heros wannabe but you? You are a sad sad story.


That is Ne. It is soft and easily folded. That's why he has to write pages on how bad he is instead of actually being bad. Seems to have a lot invested in this sociopath thing. Don't take it away from him.


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## Aladdin Sane (May 10, 2016)

This thread would be more accurately titled as 'Thought process of a psychopath'.


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## Parrot (Feb 22, 2015)

FearAndTrembling said:


> That is Ne. It is soft and easily folded. That's why he has to write pages on how bad he is instead of actually being bad. Seems to have a lot invested in this sociopath thing. Don't take it away from him.


Hmmm, tell us how you're bad? Perhaps sending unsolicited PMs to various women in an attempt to woo them and not getting hints?



Aladdin Sane said:


> This thread would be more accurately titled as 'Thought process of a psychopath'.


You're the one (among others) focusing too much on me rather than the topic at hand. I only talked about myself to give a reason for my thought process. I do not expect others to have the same which is why I created the thread so others could discuss theirs.


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## FearAndTrembling (Jun 5, 2013)

Drunk Parrot said:


> Hmmm, tell us how you're bad? Perhaps sending unsolicited PMs to various women in an attempt to woo them and not getting hints?
> 
> 
> 
> You're the one (among others) focusing too much on me rather than the topic at hand. I only talked about myself to give a reason for my thought process. I do not expect others to have the same which is why I created the thread so others could discuss theirs.


What messages are solicited? 

You talking about that chick you typed Enneagram 1 Ne dom? lol. Yeah. Shows how little you know about typing. Ne dom and a 1. lol. Perfect fit. Along with a Si dom 7. Classic types.


And yeah I hit on a lot of women. Sue me. lol. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.


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## Annie Anthonio (Sep 27, 2014)

Drunk Parrot said:


> Thanks for the kind words! :happy:


Not sure about whether the highlight of my words indicate you flagged me. But if you did call the authority to finish the fight you started you can't hold up because you get your ass kicked hard, is understandable and predicable. A man wouldn't do sneaky thing like that. And if you did flag me you did me a favor. I wanted an excuse to take time off of the forum. The internet really brought the worst out of me. I'm just a bit disappointed with all this bluff, you resigned so quickly.


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## Clayfighter (Jun 21, 2016)

@Annie Anthonio

are you sure you should keep pressing the issue if you know your right?'

ive been able to successfully mine information and cause people to lower their guard by playing the role of a fool or a narcissist. I never assume I know what someone is or who they are.

I assign myself the role of a narcissist and shift my ego state when dealing with certain types of people, it actually is really effective against another psychopath. Psychopaths always lower their guard when they see a narcissist because they assume they have already won. I either pretend like I know everything, or that I am oblivious to everything when playing the part. Other people cant help themselves from trying to attack, it allows me to learn a lot of things.


The key difference between a psychopath and everyone else, is that a psychopath learns and grows from shame. Its kind of like PTSD, but instead of becoming weaker after trauma, they get stronger and learn more. So a psychopath will never run from being shamed, but someone else will. That is the masochistic side to them. They tend to be both masochistic and sadistic. So its not that they dont feel shame, its that it gives them pleasure. Any experience a psychopath can learn from is one they enjoy.

All im saying is....be careful!


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## Annie Anthonio (Sep 27, 2014)

Blind Traveler said:


> @Annie Anthonio
> 
> are you sure you should keep pressing the issue if you know your right?'
> 
> ...


Thanks for your insight but he is not a psychopath. May be he is wearing a tshirt saying PSYCHOPATH right now. Or have a collection of books and movies about psychopath. But it is no more than a fantasy and the good people here making his dream come true.

He doesn't like me me shaming him. He ran away and be honest I thought there would be more but he just took off from me.

And what you do, I find myself doing a lot. Perhaps that's the reason you brought it up because you see me.


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## Clayfighter (Jun 21, 2016)

@Annie Anthonio

Well thanks for the info and all, but I dont worry about whether or not he is one. 

whenever someone says they are a psychopath, I just say well I dont claim to be able to know how far on the psychopathy spectrum you are....only you can really know...

if someone had a fantasy of being a psychopath, and they tell me they are one, I just let them have the fantasy. It doesnt make any difference to me.

sometimes psychopaths say they are one, because its an intimidation tactic, other times they're just mining for more information. Its essentially a social experiment most of the time. You learn what details about yourself you should or shouldnt reveal to people.

The way a psychopath sees it is like this.

they figure they dont need to tell a close friend they are a psychopath, if the friend decides that they accept them for who they are then that is what settles the matter. They dont need a word for that. In other words, the other party doesnt need to be aware of their label(psychopath) to figure out whether or not they accept that person as a friend.


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## Parrot (Feb 22, 2015)

Sorry FAndT, you don't know what you're talking about. Any type combination can exist although some are more rare. I've known Si dom type 7s, just like I know Ne Dom 1s. You're typing skills are the ones found wanting. She's taken the official MBTI, gotten ENTP several times, taken Enneagram tests, gotten 1 and also relates best to it.

As far as your game goes, clearly you have to talk to a lot of women, just to find one with low enough self esteem to feed your frail ego.


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## Parrot (Feb 22, 2015)

I didn't report you Annie. Just found your insults to be humorous and adorable. I have no memory of you just like I don't remember what bugs I've stepped on.


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

FearAndTrembling said:


> And yeah I hit on a lot of women. Sue me. lol. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.


What's your success rate?


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## Annie Anthonio (Sep 27, 2014)

Blind Traveler said:


> @Annie Anthonio
> 
> Well thanks for the info and all, but I dont worry about whether or not he is one.
> 
> ...


I never read anything about psychopath but my understanding is that there was something really traumatic happened in childhood that caused their emotional state to be in an arrested development. I see that a lot when I try to reason with children before school age. They only way they understand people is to gather information because they are not able to connect emotionally. Well it's just my opinion. I learned from watching psychopath talk on the documentary. Have you watched Robert Durst talk on the documentary "Jinx"? He sounded like a 4year old at some point. I always joked all young children are psychopath. I had engage into a lot of conversation with my son about why he cannot hurt other people but it never got through him until he started to turn 7 recently. Before that I was just talking to a wall. I can lay out the reasoning to him but he just couldn't add up why he cannot do something that he doesn't wish others to do it to him. Thank god he is not a psychopath.


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## FearAndTrembling (Jun 5, 2013)

lets mosey said:


> What's your success rate?


Glad you asked. I had a response packaged ready to go. I remember a baseball coach said hitting is something you can be successful at only 4 out of 10 times you do it and be the best ever. You can fail at your job the majority of the time and still be the best. 

And of course my complaints get reported. lol. All my RBIs aren't complaining.


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

FearAndTrembling said:


> Glad you asked. I had a response packaged ready to go. I remember a baseball coach said hitting is something you can be successful at only 4 out of 10 times you do it and be the best ever. You can fail at your job the majority of the time and still be the best.
> 
> And of course my complaints get reported. lol. All my RBIs aren't complaining.


Thank you for the chuckle. Keep enduring.


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## Clayfighter (Jun 21, 2016)

Annie Anthonio said:


> I never read anything about psychopath but my understanding is that there was something really traumatic happened in childhood that caused their emotional state to be in an arrested development. I see that a lot when I try to reason with children before school age. They only way they understand people is to gather information because they are not able to connect emotionally. Well it's just my opinion. I learned from watching psychopath talk on the documentary. Have you watched Robert Durst talk on the documentary "Jinx"? He sounded like a 4year old at some point. I always joked all young children are psychopath. I had engage into a lot of conversation about why he cannot hurt other people but it never got through him until he started to turn 7 recently. Before that I was just talking to a wall. I can lay out the reasoning to him but he just couldn't add up why he cannot do something that he doesn't wish others to do it to him. Thank god he is not a psychopath.


Sociopaths are often people who are diagnostically no different than a psychopath.

The difference is a sociopath often has a strong code of conduct which is based on their trauma or how they were treated as a child. A lot of sociopaths refuse to hurt children because of this. Its where the differentiation comes into play. The sociopath can have a little bit of empathy under some circumstances because like you said, they almost get in a state of arrested development.

Primary psychopathy is genetic. Because they are born that way, the development does not become arrested, rather they develop into a more refined psychopath.

Psychopaths essentially are born with no information assumed or assigned to schema. Their brain can sort and catalog information, beliefs, ideas, and emotions to wherever they wish them to go. A normal person has all these things assigned and forced in an affective way. Other people are more rigid in the sense that they cant help how their unconscious processes sort everything into schema.

I have not seen that documentary. My knowledge of the subject comes from personal experience. all of our beliefs cause us to act in a certain way. I have found that if you believe in certain moral principles and assign them to be true, your behavior will follow. Behavior is chosen from unconscious processes, but you can consciously choose the directive if you believe it to be correct.

In this sense, not all psychopaths are bad, they just have a choice to indulge or not to indulge in their self-interests. Some of them are not aware they had the choice all along though.


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## FearAndTrembling (Jun 5, 2013)

lets mosey said:


> Thank you for the chuckle. Keep enduring.


But seriously. You can't let those strikeouts get to to you. lol. A lot of the best home run hitters are also up there in the record books for most strike outs. Babe Ruth. Mickey Mantle. This was done brilliantly in SIGNS. Phoenix's character was a home run hitter with records who also had the strikeout record. lol. And people rubbed it in his face. But he hit the target when it counted.


*SFC Cunningham*: You didn't used to play baseball did ya? Shit, I know you. You're Merrill Hess! I was there the day you hit that 507-footer over the left field wall, set the record. Man, that thing had a motor on it. It's still the record right?
*Merrill*: Got the bat at home on the wall.
*SFC Cunningham*: You've got two minor league home-run records, don't ya?
*Merrill*: Five.
*SFC Cunningham*: Why weren't you in the pros making stacks of cash and getting your toes licked by beautiful women?
*Lionel Prichard*: 'Cause he has another record most people don't know about. He has the minor league strikeout record.
*Merrill*: Hello Lionel.
*Lionel Prichard*: Merrill's a class-A screw up. He would just swing that bat as hard as he could every time. Didn't matter what the coaches said, didn't matter who was on base. He would just whip that bat through the air as hard as he could. Looked like a lumberjack chopping down a tree. Merrill here has more strikeouts than any two players.
*SFC Cunningham*: You really got the strikeout record?
*Merrill*: Felt wrong not to swing.


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## Parrot (Feb 22, 2015)

Well said, BT


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## Clayfighter (Jun 21, 2016)

@FearAndTrembling When you're right you're right.

Dont worry about things you cant control if you fail, just focus on what you're going to achieve if you keep trying.


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## Annie Anthonio (Sep 27, 2014)

Blind Traveler said:


> Sociopaths are often people who are diagnostically no different than a psychopath.
> 
> The difference is a sociopath often has a strong code of conduct which is based on their trauma or how they were treated as a child. A lot of sociopaths refuse to hurt children because of this. Its where the differentiation comes into play. The sociopath can have a little bit of empathy under some circumstances because like you said, they almost get in a state of arrested development.
> 
> ...


Hum...interesting. Thanks for the info. I gotta take a while to digest those info. Weak Te.


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## FearAndTrembling (Jun 5, 2013)

Blind Traveler said:


> @*FearAndTrembling* When you're right you're right.
> 
> Dont worry about things you cant control if you fail, just focus on what you're going to achieve if you keep trying.


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## Amy (Jan 15, 2015)

Drunk Parrot said:


> Idk, Karla. Maybe you are. Never gave it too much thought.


Help me find my enneatype, and I'll defend you in every discussion here on PerC :kitteh:


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## Parrot (Feb 22, 2015)

Karla said:


> Help me find my enneatype, and I'll defend you in every discussion here on PerC :kitteh:


6w7, 2w3, 1w9/9w1 is my guess. So/sx I'm thinking? Do you feel like you're at your best when you're relaxed and surrounded by those who care about you?


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## Clayfighter (Jun 21, 2016)

Karla said:


> LOL haha! I wish I could see that :laughing:


it was more amusing to watch him try and fight me the next day when I got on the bus.


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## Amy (Jan 15, 2015)

Blind Traveler said:


> it was more amusing to watch him try and fight me the next day when I got on the bus.


lol then you did that again


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## Amy (Jan 15, 2015)

Drunk Parrot said:


> 6w7, 2w3, 1w9/9w1 is my guess. So/sx I'm thinking? Do you feel like you're at your best when you're relaxed and surrounded by those who care about you?


Interesting. I don't know about so/sx/sp very well :frustrating:
Yep! I feel like I'm totally secure. Mention me in the discussions, I'm not omniscient :dry::tongue:


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## Clayfighter (Jun 21, 2016)

Karla said:


> lol then you did that again


no actually I just watched him punch me a few times unaffected by it until he got embarrassed for trying. I guess that would be a good example of shame lol. believe it or not but I'm not completely evil. lol. I wasn't going to bother fighting him again.

I'm not a tough guy either, he was just smaller than me.


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## Amy (Jan 15, 2015)

Blind Traveler said:


> no actually I just watched him punch me a few times unaffected by it until he got embarrassed for trying. I guess that would be a good example of shame lol. believe it or not but I'm not completely evil. lol. I wasn't going to bother fighting him again.
> 
> I'm not a tough guy either, he was just smaller than me.


Haha, are you the incredible Hulk?! :shocked: Now I want to punch you, just to see what happens :crazy:
Two sociopaths on PerC... what a good place :kitteh:


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## Clayfighter (Jun 21, 2016)

Karla said:


> Haha, are you the incredible Hulk?! :shocked: Now I want to punch you, just to see what happens :crazy:
> Two sociopaths on PerC... what a good place :kitteh:


no. like I said, I'm not a tough guy. lol. but I was born with an exceptional pain tolerance.


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## Amy (Jan 15, 2015)

Blind Traveler said:


> no. like I said, I'm not a tough guy. lol. but I was born with an exceptional pain tolerance.


lol unless smaller people make you feel shame :tongue:
Let me punch you!!!!!


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## Clayfighter (Jun 21, 2016)

@Karla if you're ever in the neighborhood....then be my guest....lol


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## Amy (Jan 15, 2015)

Blind Traveler said:


> @Karla if you're ever in the neighborhood....then be my guest....lol


My 6 side is telling me, "don't gooooo, it's a trap!"


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## Clayfighter (Jun 21, 2016)

@Karla haha well then don't, but you're the one that asked. lmao


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## Amy (Jan 15, 2015)

Blind Traveler said:


> @Karla haha well then don't, but you're the one that asked. lmao


I never asked something. Liiiiiiiiiar. Where do you live?


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## Peter (Feb 27, 2010)

Drunk Parrot said:


> Shame is so much fun to play with in others. It's amusing how much words of affirmation can build someone's confidence just as much as my degradation can tear them down. 2s & 4s are especially fragile and it's intriguing when I interact with them. Just by yelling "shame" at them, I can see them cringe in horror. It's beautiful. But it can be pleasant to twist it positively. 3s are not as interesting, would rather not hear them brag about accomplishments.
> 
> There's this guy, in a recovery group I go to, named Bill. Bill is an ESFJ 2w3. A lot of what he shares is in regards to shame (This specific group is broad in "recovery"). He talks about being abandoned by his father, when he was young and feeling like he's letting his family down. When I talked to him, he told me his nickname, at work, is "Just Bill". I told him that was pathetic and that I will call him "Cool Bill" because he's much better than that. "Just Bill" makes him a pushover and "He should know he's worth more than that!" I'm expecting, over the next several months, to assist him as he grows in confidence and integrates to have deeper awareness of what makes him special. I imagine it'll be entertaining and a much bigger challenge than tearing him down. Not to mention, does me no good to be a dick in the group.
> 
> Thanks 2s & 4s for being fun to play with!


What are you in this group for?

Sounds like your empathic abilities are quite low.

I'm just curious. No need to tell about what you are actually in that group for. Just curious about how you rate your empathic abilities.


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## Clayfighter (Jun 21, 2016)

Karla said:


> I never asked something. Liiiiiiiiiar. Where do you live?


lmao. you're funny. so "let me hit you" is not a question?

I recently moved to texas. chances are you will never get your chance to hit me, but you can dream lol.


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## Amy (Jan 15, 2015)

Blind Traveler said:


> lmao. you're funny. so "let me hit you" is not a question?
> 
> I recently moved to texas. chances are you will never get your chance to hit me, but you can dream lol.


I never asked to be your guest, but to punch you :laughing:
Maybe. If I get a secure source of money and if I need to do something near Texas, maybe it can be true.


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## Parrot (Feb 22, 2015)

Peter said:


> What are you in this group for?
> 
> Sounds like your empathic abilities are quite low.
> 
> I'm just curious. No need to tell about what you are actually in that group for. Just curious about how you rate your empathic abilities.


I'm in the group for amphetamine addiction (Off 4 1/2 months). My affective empathy is very low, but cognitive empathy is quite high. I made light of the situation in the OP, through my tone, but I like the people in the group. I just find some of their attitudes towards shame to be curious. I can't relate, but I don't necessarily mock them.


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## Amy (Jan 15, 2015)

Drunk Parrot said:


> I'm in the group for amphetamine addiction (Off 4 1/2 months). My affective empathy is very low, but cognitive empathy is quite high. I made light of the situation in the OP, through my tone, but I like the people in the group. I just find some of their attitudes towards shame to be curious. I can't relate, but I don't necessarily mock them.


What is it like, to not know how to relate with people, at least with the shame part? I'm curious about these things


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## Parrot (Feb 22, 2015)

Karla said:


> What is it like, to not know how to relate with people, at least with the shame part? I'm curious about these things


It's more observation, than anything else. Just because I can't personally relate, doesn't mean I don't understand it. I don't feel how others use their shame to drive themselves to help others or strive for uniqueness. But I can witness it as a reality of how people operate. So to answer what it's like, it's like observing how dogs sniff each others' butts.


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## Amy (Jan 15, 2015)

Drunk Parrot said:


> It's more observation, than anything else. Just because I can't personally relate, doesn't mean I don't understand it. I don't feel how others use their shame to drive themselves to help others or strive for uniqueness. But I can witness it as a reality of how people operate. So to answer what it's like, it's like observing how dogs sniff each others' butts.


LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL! :tongue:
Interesting. Sometimes I'm like that with social skills. But what do you do when you don't know if what you do is wrong or not?


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## Parrot (Feb 22, 2015)

Karla said:


> LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL! :tongue:
> Interesting. Sometimes I'm like that with social skills. But what do you do when you don't know if what you do is wrong or not?


I might consider if it's correct, but I'm not worried about right or wrong.


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## Clayfighter (Jun 21, 2016)

lol, if you don't have a conscience....
then I'm not sure you're going to be worried about what is right....

if you're trying to blend in, then blending in is right for all intensive purposes. whatever you can do to appear right is all that matters.


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## Peter (Feb 27, 2010)

Drunk Parrot said:


> I'm in the group for amphetamine addiction (Off 4 1/2 months). My affective empathy is very low, but cognitive empathy is quite high. I made light of the situation in the OP, through my tone, but I like the people in the group. I just find some of their attitudes towards shame to be curious. I can't relate, but I don't necessarily mock them.


"made light of the situation"?

You started with "Shame is so much fun to play with in others". You find it "amuzing". It seems like you take pleasure from making people feel uncomfortabe.

I don't have a whole lot of affective empathy either, but some things are just wrong to do. Playing with people's emootions would fall in that category.


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## ShadowsRunner (Apr 24, 2013)

Yes it really keeps the caste system in check...



We must subtly play with a person`s sense of perception and realty, trying to make them feel as though their sense of worth is faulty and their views invalid in hopes they will abandon all things fully.


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## Parrot (Feb 22, 2015)

Peter said:


> "made light of the situation"?
> 
> You started with "Shame is so much fun to play with in others". You find it "amuzing". It seems like you take pleasure from making people feel uncomfortabe.
> 
> I don't have a whole lot of affective empathy either, but some things are just wrong to do. Playing with people's emootions would fall in that category.


I can take pleasure in inflicting pain on others. I can also take pleasure in making someone feel good about themselves. I don't care what you think is wrong.


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## bruh (Oct 27, 2015)

...what is wrong with people in this thread... there is nothing nice from making someone feel bad


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## Parrot (Feb 22, 2015)

bruh said:


> ...what is wrong with people in this thread... there is nothing nice from making someone feel bad


Your tumblr blog makes me feel bad


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## bruh (Oct 27, 2015)

Drunk Parrot said:


> Your tumblr blog makes me feel bad


It's not supposed to :0, you intentionally hurt others!


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## Parrot (Feb 22, 2015)

bruh said:


> It's not supposed to :0, you intentionally hurt others!


I can't tell if you're serious... :frustrating:

Are you trolling me?? If so, you win


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## Amy (Jan 15, 2015)

Drunk Parrot said:


> I can't tell if you're serious... :frustrating:
> 
> Are you trolling me?? If so, you win


I don't think he is. It's just that hurting others isn't acceptable. How do you deal with it?


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## Parrot (Feb 22, 2015)

Karla said:


> I don't think he is. It's just that hurting others isn't acceptable. How do you deal with it?


I rarely go out of my way to do it out of pure malice. Most of the time it's accidental. Like I'm just making fun of people, like you see me do, and it isn't personally targeted. I don't worry about if I hurt their feelings. If I do hurt someone's feelings, most of the time it annoys me to find out. Especially if they expect an apology. Still, I do have tertiary Fe, so I can be quite sensitive to others and can even be quite cordial and helpful. But, it does feel a little like a game. So how do I deal with it? I don't care to even think about it that much. How do you deal with it?

As far as physically harming people, I don't do that and have no interest to do it, unprovoked.


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## Amy (Jan 15, 2015)

Drunk Parrot said:


> I rarely go out of my way to do it out of pure malice. Most of the time it's accidental. Like I'm just making fun of people, like you see me do, and it isn't personally targeted. I don't worry about if I hurt their feelings. If I do hurt someone's feelings, most of the time it annoys me to find out. Especially if they expect an apology. Still, I do have tertiary Fe, so I can be quite sensitive to others and can even be quite cordial and helpful. But, it does feel a little like a game. So how do I deal with it? I don't care to even think about it that much. How do you deal with it?
> 
> As far as physically harming people, I don't do that and have no interest to do it, unprovoked.


Interesting. I discovered why you don't feel shame most of the time: people feel shame because they broke social rules. But you don't care to social rules, so you are less likely to feel shame.


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## Peter (Feb 27, 2010)

Drunk Parrot said:


> I can take pleasure in inflicting pain on others. I can also take pleasure in making someone feel good about themselves. I don't care what you think is wrong.


I was just curious. I didn't write what I wrote to get your appreciation. I'm just baffled when someone can take pleasure in inflicting pain on others and then just talk about it as if it's the most normal thing in the world. Saying that you also take pleasure in making people feel good,........ doesn't really compensate for it.

From your signature I get that you see some narcissistic traits in yourself. Is that correct?


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## Parrot (Feb 22, 2015)

Peter said:


> I was just curious. I didn't write what I wrote to get your appreciation. I'm just baffled when someone can take pleasure in inflicting pain on others and then just talk about it as if it's the most normal thing in the world. Saying that you also take pleasure in making people feel good,........ doesn't really compensate for it.
> 
> From your signature I get that you see some narcissistic traits in yourself. Is that correct?


Skim through the rest of this thread; I post a link.

Perception is reality and my reality is what I consider normal


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## Parrot (Feb 22, 2015)

Yay, my shame thread now has 3 stars!


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## Chesire Tower (Jan 19, 2013)

FearAndTrembling said:


> That is Ne. It is soft and easily folded. That's why he has to write pages on how bad he is instead of actually being bad. Seems to have a lot invested in this sociopath thing. Don't take it away from him.





Drunk Parrot said:


> What the hell are you talking about? Why would I want you to feel bad for me?? *I reject any sympathy you might have.*


Ding, ding; I think we have a winner. :laughing:

Seriously OP, I do in fact admire your honesty; even if it is rather twisted but I do think that FAT may be on to something; since if this (seeming lack of empathy) didn't actually bother you at some level; then you wouldn't have bothered making this thread. I think that (at some level) what you're really seeking is self-awareness and a solution. I don't buy it for one second (even if you've managed to fool some others) that this thread is really about bragging. I think at some level, you're actually seriously conflicted about this. Amitirite? At any rate, I don't see any point in morally judging or shaming you; I'm sure that you've probably gotten more than your share of that already.


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## Parrot (Feb 22, 2015)

Chesire Tower said:


> Ding, ding; I think we have a winner. :laughing:
> 
> Seriously OP, I do in fact admire your honesty; even if it is rather twisted but I do think that FAT may be on to something; since if this (seeming lack of empathy) didn't actually bother you at some level; then you wouldn't have bothered making this thread. I think that (at some level) what you're really seeking is self-awareness and a solution. I don't buy it for one second (even if you've managed to fool some others) that this thread is really about bragging. I think at some level, you're actually seriously conflicted about this. Amitirite? At any rate, I don't see any point in morally judging or shaming you; I'm sure that you've probably gotten more than your share of that already.


You're right in that I did approach the topic from a seemingly mocking nature. But I also created it from a position of curiosity to see how it affects people. When I am being judged, however, I do lash back.

As far as being conflicted, yes, I suppose. Being "shamed" affects me in one way and that is anger/hate. It's very hard to shame me, but when it happens, it makes me so mad. It's intriguing how many people act, preemptively, in regards to shame. They feel it before it even happens, like my friend Bill in the OP. I perceive it as a weapon with armor needed to prevent it. My armor is nearly impenetrable. But others are driven by it, and become better people because of it, and I'm curious as to why.


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## Chesire Tower (Jan 19, 2013)

Drunk Parrot said:


> You're right in that I did approach the topic from a seemingly mocking nature. But I also created it from a position of curiosity to see how it affects people. When I am being judged, however, I do lash back.
> 
> As far as being conflicted, yes, I suppose. Being "shamed" affects me in one way and that is anger/hate. It's very hard to shame me, but when it happens, it makes me so mad. It's intriguing how many people act, preemptively, in regards to shame. They feel it before it even happens, like my friend Bill in the OP. I perceive it as a weapon with armor needed to prevent it. My armor is nearly impenetrable. But others are driven by it, and become better people because of it, and I'm curious as to why.


Well, I used to feel rage whenever anyone would try to shame me; now I just experience either annoyance or contempt. I also used to react by turning the shame back on them, since I was always far more afraid of my tendency to beat up on myself; so it was always more tolerable if I could blame my shame on them; IOW,* they're* the ones who hate me. LOL, I don't know about becoming a better person because of shame; I became a better person when I decided to fully accept myself, warts and all and then found those "warts" dramatically shrinking as a result. I am far from scot-free, however; I found out that I have to be quite vigilant about the things that trigger me and train myself not to react to them. It's still a struggle but I've been making major headway.

I've found that unless, I still have anything about myself that I haven't fully accepted yet; other's voluntary or involuntary shaming can still sting but otherwise, I just regard it as projection and feel compassion for the person whose self-hate is so great that they need to project it on to me. I know I have major flaws in my character which is why I rarely judge others for similar perceived deficits. Basically, I just keep the _glass houses_ motto in mind. XD


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## Chesire Tower (Jan 19, 2013)

Drunk Parrot said:


> Yay, my shame thread now has 3 stars!


4 and YW.


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## Clayfighter (Jun 21, 2016)

Chesire Tower said:


> 4 and YW.


still seems to be a 3 to me....lol


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## Parrot (Feb 22, 2015)

Clayfighter said:


> still seems to be a 3 to me....lol


You dick :laughing:


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## Clayfighter (Jun 21, 2016)

Drunk Parrot said:


> You dick :laughing:


I didnt rate it down if thats what you are implying.


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