# Am I an ISTJ?



## Ninjaws (Jul 10, 2014)

westlose said:


> Why ?


Loud, drunk people, nothing to do. I'd prefer a boardgame with 4-7 friends.



> It's hard to be sure. Your answers are quite short. I can confirm the Te/Fi axis but nothing more. Even if you typed yourself as a Gamma type (INTJ, ENTJ and now ISFP), I don't see any Se in your answer (nor Ni). I would say probably INFP or ISTJ. Because your first function is an introverted one (your Te seem creative and not dominant).


I'm interested though, people always type me Te/Fi. I've thought about ISTP in the past but nobody has ever recommended that because of Te. How would a strong Ti user react in those situations? If I better understand the differences between the two axis, I won't ever have to look into those types again.


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## Greyhart (Oct 13, 2014)

Ninjaws said:


> Loud, drunk people, nothing to do. I'd prefer a boardgame with 4-7 friends.
> 
> 
> I'm interested though, people always type me Te/Fi. I've thought about ISTP in the past but nobody has ever recommended that because of Te. *How would a strong Ti user react in those situations?* If I better understand the differences between the two axis, I won't ever have to look into those types again.


I've missed train of quotes that brought this on. Which situations? I am Ne-Ti though I have a problem separating these 2 and applying Ti to Se, not sure how much help I can be.

Cautious: I'd think Te and Pi attitude not necessary TJ. My INFP friend is way more cautious than I am, for example.

Planning: holy crap you are anti-me. Te here too I think. 

...

...

*cough* I don't think IFP. You have waaaay too much Te for inferior.


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## Ninjaws (Jul 10, 2014)

Greyhart said:


> I've missed train of quotes that brought this on. Which situations? I am Ne-Ti though I have a problem separating these 2 and applying Ti to Se, not sure how much help I can be.


It was mainly about the situations in the questionaires, but I'm actually interested in the workings of Ti in general. I've considered it possible for me to be a Ti user before, but people always recommend Te. I don't know what would be perfect questions to make the divide betweens these two very clear.


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## To_august (Oct 13, 2013)

@_Ninjaws_
You sound very Delta-like. Did you try to look into Socionics Quadras?
I'll copy the key points under spoiler so you can see if there is something that fits you.

* *




*Alpha Quadra*



Alpha types are inclined to discuss highly theoretical concepts as a source of intellectual stimulation and fun rather than for their practical merits.
Alpha types tend to value logically consistent beliefs and ideas, and behavior that is consistent with personal values.
Alpha types typically follow through on their ideas in the form of group activity.
Alpha types tend to enjoy participating in groups where there is free exchange of positive emotional expression in an atmosphere pleasing to the senses.
Alpha types are inclined to discuss stories told in detail and according to the sequence in which events happened, rather than "jump to the point" quickly.
Alpha types are inclined to show affection for others in the form of small practical services or gifts.
Alpha types tend to feel energized in the positive atmosphere of special events, such as public holidays, parties and special celebrations.
Alpha types prefer to avoid the discussion of controversial and unpleasant subjects regarding personal relationships while in groups, especially if leading to confrontations.
Alpha types are inclined to be tolerating of minor past misdeeds by others, giving priority to reconciliation and a convivial atmosphere.
Alpha types are less likely to make investments that require long-term commitment and upkeep. They prefer short-term investments that offer a reliable outcome with minimal involvement.
Alpha types avoid taking direct life advice, preferring to experience and learn for themselves. They perceive people who try to give such advice as pedantic.

_Group behavior_
Inclination for comfortable and pleasant group atmosphere, in the emotional, sensorial, and intellectual aspects. An ideal Alpha group situation is the exchange of light-hearted jokes while discussing imaginative ideas, movies, or sometimes sports, all while enjoying pleasant food and drink. Narrating personal experiences usually takes the form of telling a joke; funny personal experiences are preferred over "serious" ones. The exchange of sober concrete details are avoided. If the group is playing a game together, the fun and jokes that go along with it are at least as important as the game itself. They avoid generating "heavy" moments; any dramatic expressions are limited in time, most often in service of a joke. Alphas are also perhaps the most likely types to participate in group use of mind-altering substances.

Alpha discussions tend to go off on tangents, in whatever direction seems most interesting or funny at the moment. Unusual personal observations are common, resulting from the analysis of the idiosyncrasies or inconsistencies of everyday life. If many in the group share the same observations, they are likely to express their agreement emphatically, so as to create a kind of "mental harmony" which enhances the group dynamic. If a new problem is encountered, it is expanded and developed in as many ways as possible, until some kind of satisfactory conclusion is reached.

Alphas make no distinction between "insiders" and "outsiders", easily drawing people into a conversation once it has begun — though they tend to just as easily withdraw if the person is not receptive. Likewise, they prefer to have the same behavior at work as at play; they find formal speech and dress to be pretentious, unnecessarily limiting, and even ridiculous. Alphas dislike the idea that there is something going on "behind the scenes", preferring to keep things (especially personal motivations) as open and straightforward as possible.

*Beta Quadra*



Beta quadra types prefer situations where the power structure and hierarchy is clearly defined according to consistent rules where ambiguities are minimized.
Beta quadra types are more confident analysing realistic characteristics of situations, people, and objects, rather than alternative and could-it-be scenarios.
Beta quadra types are inclined to attribute to a new acquaintance traits that they have previously observed in other individuals belonging to the same group as they see the new acquaintance as belonging to (Aristocracy).
Beta quadra types are inclined to look for general rules explaining people, politics, mechanisms and trends, rules that once defined can be applied generally, rather than go about things in a case-by-case way.
Beta quadra types are energized by competitive situations where analytical tactics are emphasized.
Beta types tend to enjoy group activities where the whole group participates in generating a common emotional atmosphere, as in laughing at jokes, etc.
Beta types tend to feel energized in the presence of people who share their beliefs and express them with obvious enthusiasm and emotion.
Beta types tend to give more value to feelings when they are demonstrated with clear emotional expression, and tend to increase the level of their own emotional expression in order to get a reaction from other people.
Beta types tend to describe personal views of special meaning with "poetic" or "dramatic" expressions and language.
Beta types are often deeply concerned about social issues and the direction the world is heading. They believe that apathy is a significant cause of societal problems, and work to fight against it.
Beta types are not inclined to enjoy discussions of personal experiences when the focus is on a person's own inner feelings, especially when described in a subdued way.
Beta types tend to be skeptical of another individual's potential for personal growth in terms of abilities and character, and dislike being the subject of such a discussion by others about themselves.
Beta types tend to look down on nuts-and-bolts, detailed work as a source of success, preferring to focus on "vision" and leadership.
Beta types don't so much enjoy relaxed personal activities as they do competitive group activities.

_Group behavior_
Preference for larger groups where participation is "collective" rather than focused on individuals for any length of time, but with likely "domination" by more assertive individuals. This means that beta groups discuss topics that everyone could contribute to. Frequent unexplained inside jokes are considered impolite because they exclude other people. Jokes are loud and general, often about stereotypes. Betas attempt to draw others into the group activity: for example, in a situation where there are "group rituals" going on (as in drinking, dancing, etc), there is good-natured pressure on "outsiders" to also participate in them, with a sort of puzzled dismay if they prefer not to. They also try to draw attention to people who might otherwise feel left out - usually this is done with general jokes directed at individuals. In more subdued moments, discussion of ideas involving present trends and political implications, with strong views voiced. Personal experiences tend to be discussed from the point of view of their external impact rather than the individual's own personal view of them.
When larger social events are organized by Betas (such as parties, receptions etc), they show an inclination to promote activities that will lead to the guests involved as a single group, such as games and shows; dislike for the "quieter" form of events where guests tend to quietly form smaller groups in more intimate atmospheres, which Betas tend to see as boring.
For Betas atmosphere is more important than specific activity or topic. Groups of betas spend time together to entertain each other. They exchange fun (and often loud) stories to feed the atmosphere, so that the group energy won't run out. People talk fast and they often add comments to other people's stories if they feel that the pace is slowing down. When someone starts to talk, he takes on the obligation to entertain for the duration of the monologue and, in a friendly group, other people only interrupt to try and help him keep control of the atmosphere.
Talking about personal matters in a group is not something that Betas generally do. It's viewed almost as treachery when something that was told in a one-on-one conversation is retold in front of a group, or when someone criticizes another person's traits in front of the group. Betas believe such things should be told in private and should not be used to embarrass or belittle a friend.
Betas also don't like it when people tell long, slow stories. Betas try to be polite and listen to the story, and they will forgive you if it was boring for them, but if someone does it too often they might not be invited back. Betas restrict long-winded stories to one-on-one conversations. However, IEIs are more likely to adjust to the slower stories because they are very flexible conversationalists.

*Gamma Quadra*



Gamma types take a longer-term view regarding efficiency and profitability, giving lower priority to the short term. Likewise, they tend to aim at the broader benefits of decisions, rather than only at those affecting themselves, giving them an inclination for self-sacrifice.
Gamma types like to talk about where present trends are leading in terms of potentially profitable events and undertakings.
Gamma types tend to give more value to ideas and concepts that are firmly connected to factual information.
Gamma types take a hard-line approach regarding ethical principles and the punishment, even revenge, on those who break them.
Gamma types place high value on personal loyalty, once they feel a close relationship has been established.
Gamma types like to discuss personal relationships in a realistic manner and are skeptical that "jerks" can ever become "nice people", for instance.
Gamma types don't tend to form or maintain groups based on fun, emotional interaction, but only take groups seriously that perform some common productive activity or discuss serious topics.
Gamma types reject the idea that it's best to avoid confrontations so as not to spoil the mood of those present, they prefer directness in settling or at least discussing disagreements.
Gamma types have difficulty relating to emotional atmospheres connected to "special dates" such as public holidays.
Gamma types do not see much point in deeply analyzing ideas that they see as having little practical application or connection to reality.
Gamma types are more inclined to speculate and discuss possible developments of present circumstances, or how these came about, than to speculate or analyze alternative scenarios or possibilities

_Group behavior_
Groups made up of primarily Gamma types tend to be small in size; perhaps 6 at most. Laughter and very obvious displays of emotion are subdued, instead, there is a lot of smiling, amusement with ironic and witty remarks or, when serious subjects or not very happy personal experiences are discussed, a serious demeanour. Even such small groups tend to split into smaller ones; perhaps 3 is the ideal "group" size for Gammas.
Group discussions are focused on exchange of information and ideas on subjects of mutual interest, discussing and planning activities together, or on personal experiences. The latter are usually discussed not with the purpose of making people laugh or to boast one's position but to get an insight into the lessons to be drawn from such experiences.
Gammas usually dislike being "drawn" into larger groups where loud exchanges of jokes and quick shifting of one subject to the other are the norm, as in a large dinner table in an informal environment, especially if the group is also somewhat "artificial" as in work colleagues or business partners where personal relationships weren't really spontaneously formed. In such situations, Gammas will tend to focus on the persons sitting immediately near them in order to engage them in more individual conversations or will tend to remain mostly silent, not really participating in the group atmosphere, making the impression of being "introverts" in the everyday meaning of the term.
Once a group is formed, it tends to be wary for some time of "newcomers", being neither exclusive nor inclusive on purpose. Conversations often focus on trends regarding material and yet personal issues, such as career prospects and developments, success or failure of financial investments and enterprises, and the future prospects of romantic relationships, as well as the reasons for the failure of past ones. In more light-hearted moments, such talks get a "bawdy" flavor with some slight teasing.
Other subjects tend to focus on internal work politics from the point of view of how it jeopardizes general efficiency, the nonsense of bureaucracy, and how to be better than competitors.

*Delta Quadra*



Delta types make a point of talking about the rationale behind their actions and emphasizing the productiveness or unproductiveness of different ways of doing things - even in such emotional areas as personal relationships.
Delta types value peaceful, refreshing activities where they are doing something useful and balancing out their inner world at the same time.
Delta types have the philosophy that they will have to rely on their own industriousness to achieve their goals rather than on luck, speculation, group effort, or strong leadership.
Delta types love to share personal experience mixed with their own sentiments regarding their experiences, but all in an insightful and non-dramatic manner.
Delta types like to talk about new beginnings, opportunities for personal growth, and their plans and prospects for the future.
Delta types rarely display their deep passions and vision, preferring instead to talk in more neutral terms about what they want to do and why.
Delta types reject dramatism and emotional affect in favor of wry humor and understatement.
Delta types don't tend to form or maintain groups based on fun, emotional interaction, but only take groups seriously that perform some common productive or restful activity.
Delta types generally dislike using poetic wording when describing their inner state, but talk simply about what they feel or their bodily sensations.
Delta types do not fare well in high-pressure situations where they are being forced to do things, are facing threatening opponents, or are submitted to rigorous discipline, but wear out quickly and look for a more peaceful and welcoming environment.

_Group behavior_
Groups made up of primarily Delta types tend to be focused on working on projects, enjoying physical recreation, or finding out interesting things about each other. Laughter is usually subdued and brief; instead, people smile a lot and try to be witty and welcoming. Groups need to be focused on some specific productive activity or topic of discussion, or else they fall apart. In Delta groups, there is a lot of splintering and decentralization. This allows for more focused and productive interaction with only those who share your particular interests or sentiments. People jump from small group to small group easily to keep up their interest level. No one demands that the entire group listen to one person or that everyone do the same thing. Delta Quadra types believe that if everyone just pursues their own interests and makes some accommodations for others, the group will be better off anyway. Delta Quadra types do not focusing on building group identity or unity of purpose, but prefer for the group to remain splintered and decentralized.



I'm not seeing Fi dominance from your questionnaires and don't think you're a feeler in general. 

Why do you think you can be Fi dominant? What exactly about Fi resonates with you?


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## westlose (Oct 9, 2014)

Ninjaws said:


> Loud, drunk people, nothing to do. I'd prefer a boardgame with 4-7 friends.
> 
> 
> I'm interested though, people always type me Te/Fi. I've thought about ISTP in the past but nobody has ever recommended that because of Te. How would a strong Ti user react in those situations? If I better understand the differences between the two axis, I won't ever have to look into those types again.


Te is the logic of action. What can I do with this thing ? What outcome does this thing provide?
In your answer you display a lot of logic of action. For example when you were talking about traveling, you were focused on the pragmatic aspect of the travel.
You don't seek to care about the relationships and internal structure of things, which is Ti.

As for Fe vs Fi. Fi is centered around the individual needs and opinion. Attraction/repulsion toward things are purely based on the subjective point of view, and you seemed to agree with that :


> Freedom of choice for everyone. Don't ever force your opinions and ways of doing things upon another. Let them decide for themselves. Experience is a far better way to learn than through being told what is right and wrong to do.
> I will never change these values unless I see them having a deeply negative effect.


Fe is more focused about the group, morals and how people globally feels about something.

And yeah, you seem like a Delta, that's why I give you ISTJ and INFP.


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## Ninjaws (Jul 10, 2014)

To_august said:


> @_Ninjaws_
> You sound very Delta-like. Did you try to look into Socionics Quadras?
> I'll copy the key points under spoiler so you can see if there is something that fits you.
> 
> ...


I've made the points I relate to bold.
I relate to Beta by far the least. Alpha group behaviour I can kinda see, same for Gamma.
Yup, Delta fits the best.



> I'm not seeing Fi dominance from your questionnaires and don't think you're a feeler in general.
> 
> Why do you think you can be Fi dominant? What exactly about Fi resonates with you?


People recommended dominant Fi in this thread: http://personalitycafe.com/cognitive-functions/549914-dominant-inferior-fi.html
They said it was due to my relatively poor organizational skills and my high level of distrust and reading into the motivations of people.

The reason I started questioning it again was because I'm perfectly capable of making logical decisions without my feelings getting in the way (even though this does not exclude inferior Te). I will still have great difficult performing the action if I do not like it (Physics, etc), but the decision in and of itself is made logically.


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## Greyhart (Oct 13, 2014)

@Ninjaws socionics Fi positions Introverted ethics - Wikisocion
and Te Extroverted logic - Wikisocion

IDK what is considered to be poor organization skills since it's not something I bother with at all. *cough*

P.S. you are going through entire zoology book with your avatar changes.


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## Dangerose (Sep 30, 2014)

Subscribing; I'm_ really _bad at identifying functions in IxTx types but I can at least follow the discussion and try to be of use where possible.


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## Ninjaws (Jul 10, 2014)

Greyhart said:


> @Ninjaws socionics Fi positions Introverted ethics - Wikisocion
> and Te Extroverted logic - Wikisocion


Relatable things in bold

Te

* *







> Te as leading function in LSE (ESTj; Shtirlitz) and LIE (ENTj; Jack London)
> This person is very confident in his own knowledge. He lives by external rules or "charter" that he has thought up himself. He imposes his vision of the correct "order of things" in external situations and is conservative in this vision (his assessment of who should be doing what, etc.). Everything must be in its place; moving anything makes him want to put it back where it belongs. Has a strong notion of "my territory", of "ownership". Those who create a mess on his territory irritate him - everyone should know their place. Does not seek to change this status quo. If one asks why something should be done in this way and not another, he will reply that this is just how things are done without giving any reasons for it. It is as if he lives by that which he creates in the environment with his own hands; any changes made to this are seen as attempts to change his person. Once he has learned a certain rule, he will follow it throughout his life (2x2=4). Existing order must remain unchanged; if it is replaced by a new one, for him it is worse by default. Restoring order on his territory is self-affirming for him. He is well versed in the rules, the order of things: if you wish to get something done, he can tell you how you should act, which order or sequence of steps you should undertake, where you should go, what documents you should bring, etc. He knows how to assemble and disassemble anything and is confident in his ability to do so. Can spend hours with a soldering iron and parts, taking apart complex mechanisms. “If in my world there are stable and invariable rules and order, then I can live. If not, then I don't exist.” On his own territory, he acts as the boss and does not tolerate opposition. If his notion of territory is more widely delineated, his control may be extended to anyone who is on it. Their home is their fortress. If you try to explain something to him, sooner or later he will say "I got it" and interrupt you since he doesn't aim to attain an understanding. They are interested in facts of objective reality - these are not to be understood, but rather memorized, learned, evaluated, and implemented. For example, if one wishes to assemble and disassemble vacuum cleaner, there is no need to understand but only to remember how to do it, which part goes where. If the facts of his objective view of the world are changed, this irritates him, because he will need time to reevaluate and rebuild. His main criteria of activity is objective benefit that can be achieved. Living with such a person on his own territory can be done only in accordance to his rules, and sometimes he attempts to extend them to nearby territories, as expansion of borders is viewed as a useful activity from point of view that a person lives by this, meaning that by this expansion he will "exist" in even greater extent. To go elsewhere, to someone else's territory, and start dictating who is supposed to do what or how something should be done is fairly typical for him. Communicating with such person there is a persistent impression that he is always in the archetype of the boss - he likes to give orders even if he has not been empowered to it: "take this shovel, you will go dig up potatoes". He does not like those who spend their time irrationally and unproductively. He likes to confirm the factual basis of anyone's argument.
> 
> Te as creative function in SLI (ISTp; Jean Gabin) and ILI (INTp; Balzac)
> ...





Fi

* *







> Fi as leading function of ESI (ISFj; Dreiser) and EII (INFj; Dostoevsky)
> *This person is very tenacious in his attachments and conservative in his feelings and attitudes towards another, keeps true to the feelings he develops. If someone does not agree with his valuation, it irritates him immensely. Someone who has deceived him once he will consider a liar forever, even if the person changes. Due to this, from aside he is often seen as a moralist, as these feelings and evaluations are the main part of his life. The product of leading function is often not shown to the outside world but instead is kept inside. Thus this happens most often when something annoys him in terms of its values. The negative is often seen more clearly than the positive. Thus he may hold onto such false impressions. Attempting to challenge their assessment is useless, for them something is just "good" and something is just "bad" and they will not be able to communicate clearly why this is so, except for making some general statements. Tries to keep himself near those with whom positive relationship was once established. Their division of people into "good" and "bad" is very clear-cut. The "good" people are liked and the "bad" people are despised; often this is hidden but if the person evoke a strongly negative response they may express it openly.* If there are not enough people around him whom he values, this may inspire in him aggression, because this means that he doesn't exist. He is very sensitive to such concepts as duty, honor, dignity, morality, that is - to his own perception of these concepts. *For him his own feelings, emotions, attitudes are important, not external, public ones, which may not be given any importance. He rarely changes his attitude towards anyone, especially from low evaluation to a higher one. He has a large supply of different emotions and their various nuances. He is very sensitive to other people deviating from his own moral code - it is as if he is constantly controlling them in this respect and taking care of them. His positive feelings are something that should be confirmed by behavior that coincides with his expectations of what is "good" and "bad". In society, they are sometimes misunderstood since their ethics are personal, subjective, and therefore may deviate significantly from what is accepted as a norm. But he is deeply entrenched into this subjective perception, thus his only resort is to find those who agree with him and accept him for it.*
> 
> Fi as creative function in SEE (ESFp; Napoleon) and IEE (ENFp; Huxley)
> ...





I'm not sure if I got everything, it's just too much to read. 




> P.S. you are going through entire zoology book with your avatar changes.


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## Greyhart (Oct 13, 2014)

Hmh, conflicting. Based on the content on highlighted sentences I think ITJ is likeliest. IMO.


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## Telepathis Goosus (Mar 28, 2015)

IxTJ, definitely not IxTP honestly.


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## Ninjaws (Jul 10, 2014)

Greyhart said:


> Hmh, conflicting. Based on the content on highlighted sentences I think ITJ is likeliest. IMO.


These descriptions are not the law, are they? With the Fi stuff for ITJs they just went on and on about self-esteem issues.


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## Greyhart (Oct 13, 2014)

Ninjaws said:


> These descriptions are not the law, are they? With the Fi stuff for ITJs they just went on and on about self-esteem issues.


These are eh... highlight _potential_ problems too.


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## sicksadworlds (May 4, 2015)

@Ninjaws from what I've seen you believe you're an Fi and Te user, but you're having trouble to see whether you're an Se and Ni or an Ne and Si user, right? 
I knew I was an IXFP, but it was hard for me to recognize my second and tertiary functions (Se/Ni or Ne/Si?) so these threads helped me to see which type I most likely am.

http://personalitycafe.com/cognitiv...-original-typology-model-very-simplified.html
http://personalitycafe.com/cognitive-functions/545514-ni-vs-si.html#post17532841
http://personalitycafe.com/cognitiv...volving-eight-functions-type-beebe-model.html


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## westlose (Oct 9, 2014)

What do you think about war?


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## Ninjaws (Jul 10, 2014)

westlose said:


> What do you think about war?


On the one hand, it's all about greedy people who just can't ever get enough. Because of their lust for more land/oil/etc they send other people to die. It's disgusting and pointless.

On the other hand, overpopulation is becoming a problem. Wars are an efficient way to bring the population back in check.


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## westlose (Oct 9, 2014)

Ninjaws said:


> On the one hand, it's all about greedy people who just can't ever get enough. Because of their lust for more land/oil/etc they send other people to die. It's disgusting and pointless.
> 
> On the other hand, overpopulation is becoming a problem. Wars are an efficient way to bring the population back in check.


Imagine that you are the leader of a country, and another country wants to invade you because they think that your territory belong to them. How would you feel about it? What would you think? How would you react?


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## Ninjaws (Jul 10, 2014)

westlose said:


> Imagine that you are the leader of a country, and another country wants to invade you because they think that your territory belong to them. How would you feel about it? What would you think? How would you react?


I don't really care about countries and especially not about patriotism, so I'd just think "what is best for the people?". If I know that the other country will be good on my people, I will give it to them. This way, I avoid the death of a lot of people while the citizens can just carry on with their lives.

If they treat their citizens poorly, I'll tell them that if they better their ways, I'll give it to them.

If they refuse to improve their system and insist on getting the terrority, war will be the only option.


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## Ninjaws (Jul 10, 2014)

sicksadworlds said:


> @Ninjaws from what I've seen you believe you're an Fi and Te user, but you're having trouble to see whether you're an Se and Ni or an Ne and Si user, right?
> I knew I was an IXFP, but it was hard for me to recognize my second and tertiary functions (Se/Ni or Ne/Si?) so these threads helped me to see which type I most likely am.
> 
> http://personalitycafe.com/cognitiv...-original-typology-model-very-simplified.html
> ...


I must admit, both the first and the third links are rather confusing. The Ni vs Si one doesn't make it much easier, since both can kinda be true. Ni/Se seems to follow the chess routine "If I do this, he'll do this, then I can do that, and he'll be defeated".
I can't think of a clear example for Si/Ne.


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## westlose (Oct 9, 2014)

Ninjaws said:


> I don't really care about countries and especially not about patriotism, so I'd just think "what is best for the people?". If I know that the other country will be good on my people, I will give it to them. This way, I avoid the death of a lot of people while the citizens can just carry on with their lives.
> 
> If they treat their citizens poorly, I'll tell them that if they better their ways, I'll give it to them.
> 
> If they refuse to improve their system and insist on getting the terrority, war will be the only option.


Ok, so this was the Se question. According to your answers, Se is in the Id-block, and the best fit-in I've found is for the ISTJ :



> *as an ignoring (7th) function (SEI and SLI)*
> 
> The individual prefers to guide others by providing individual rewards and helping satisfy the needs of specific important people rather than through direct leadership or issuing directives. He avoids confrontation and collisions, but becomes fierce and unbending for brief periods of time if they are inevitable.
> 
> ...


It's kinda like what you said.

Here's the ISFP one, and it doesn't really fit with your answer.


* *





as a creative (2nd) function (LSI and ESI)

The individual takes direct action to accomplish his goals and desires in the face of external obstacles, and also the interests of his close friends, family, or associates. This may involve prodding others to take necessary action, deliberately applying pressure in specific situations, or abruptly taking on an organizational role. The individual does not generally seek out confrontation, but he is also not afraid of it.

He takes his responsibilities seriously and tends to perform them diligently and with care. He expects the same of others.


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## To_august (Oct 13, 2013)

Ninjaws said:


> I've made the points I relate to bold.
> I relate to Beta by far the least. Alpha group behaviour I can kinda see, same for Gamma.
> Yup, Delta fits the best.
> 
> ...


Beta is the opposing quadra to Delta, they share no valued functions, so it's understandable why you can't relate 

Interesting that you've been a bit inconsistent as highlighted both following statements, while they are mutually exclusive.
The first one indicates unvalued Ni-Te, the second one is Ni-Te valued.


> Alpha types are _less likely to make investments that require long-term commitment_ and upkeep. They _prefer short-term investments_ that offer a reliable outcome with minimal involvement.
> 
> Gamma types _take a longer-term view_ regarding efficiency and profitability, _giving lower priority to the short term_. Likewise, they tend to aim at the broader benefits of decisions, rather than only at those affecting themselves, giving them an inclination for self-sacrifice.


These two refer to Se-Fi. First one is unvalued Se-Fi, second one is valued Se-Fi. Then again, quite inconsistent, since the first one devalues power dynamics, while the second one clearly emphasizes it.


> Alpha types prefer to _avoid _the discussion of controversial and unpleasant subjects regarding personal relationships while in groups, especially if leading to confrontations.
> 
> Gamma types _take a hard-line approach_ regarding ethical principles and the punishment, even revenge, on those who break them.


I'm thinking you are Te ego type, most likely ISTJ. Te isn't as strong as it is for dominant Te types, and it shouldn't be, because it's subordinate to Si. And overall stereotyped MBTI ISTJ that bosses everybody around and suppresses free thought is too far from reality and may better suit Te dominants or ISTJs with a VERY strong Te subtype, or even more likely logical types that value Se. But then again, the latter is just another round of stereotyping, no person should fit any of the stereotypes. Te is blunt and cold, because it deals with objective factual stuff, but it isn't bossy or pushy, or anything like that in and of itself.

Organisation is a two-edged thing. Imo, the most organised people are rational Te and Ti types, and I mean internal organisation of thought here. Ti types are particularity organized internally, having like a structure of everything inside their heads, with their own notion and opinion and shelf for everything. Whether it translates to their external environment is another question. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. Te dominants I think also come off as very organized people, because they may think that it's good work ethics or organisation helps them to achieve their goals or deal with external factual environment, or something along these lines. And I guess everybody would have difficulty performing actions they don't like. 

Fi-Ne and Si-Te are very different.
Fi is still people and ethics oriented function and in case of being paired with Ne it's focused on people's potential, on understanding and building relationship opportunities, on feeling of attraction/repulsion and understanding what must be done in order to change relationships the way you want them to be, on wanting to implement your ideal ethical abstract concepts in your relationships, on understanding of psychological distance between people and desire to resolve any unclear relations towards somebody or something. Does your life really revolves around this? I didn't see it from the OP.

Si-Te is far more practical minded cognition, oriented at objective and rational approach to life.


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## Ninjaws (Jul 10, 2014)

westlose said:


> Ok, so this was the Se question. According to your answers, Se is in the Id-block, and the best fit-in I've found is for the ISTJ :
> 
> It's kinda like what you said.


That does seem rather accurate. I have no interest in competition nor power games, which is also why I suck at strategy games (I'm just building my base in peace while the other player is taking the whole map).

I only become aggressive when I'm pushed into a corner. I'll suddenly change my personality and go into a state of rage. Most people never see this coming, since I'm normally very passive.



> Here's the ISFP one, and it doesn't really fit with your answer.
> 
> 
> * *
> ...


I only put pressure when there is something that has to be done and people are slacking off. I get annoyed by the fact that I'm the only serious person around and I'll become a mini-dictator.

I am afraid of confrontation, but I'll but put on a tough look since appearing weak means they think they can walk over you. I really dislike conflict and personal attacks make me extremely uncomfortable.

They only time I'll be confrontational is when I see injustice happening and I think I can do something about it. If a weak boy is getting picked on at school I'll sudden feel a surge of energy and not hesitate for a moment to take care of the situation.

My face kind of becomes like this:










Actually, I relate greatly to Walter White from Breaking Bad. (please no spoilers further than Season 3)

WARNING: SPOILERS UP UNTIL SEASON 3 BELOW, DO NOT READ IF YOU HAVE NOT SEEN IT YET

* *






A few differences though:

-I would be more patient with Jesse, since if you keep insulting someone they are not going to like it. I would prefer not to make enemies, especially with people you have to work with.

-He keeps calling Jesse's friends junkies and such. While this may be true, I'd be a bit more respectful towards Jesse's friends. Especially when you know they mean a lot to him.

-My plan would be a bit more waterproof than his. Like how he forgot to take care of the van that has his fingerprints all over it. Again, I'm a "tying up loose ends" kind of person.

-I would be worse at coming up with stories in the moment. When he was about to be killed at the laundry he suddenly came up with a plan on how to make Jesse kill Gale, I would need to make a plan beforehand. I can't do it on the fly that effectively. 

-He calls what he does bad. I would not call it that, since my sense of justice doesn't see it that way. Cooking does not harm people. Of course the drug harms people, but they will get the drug anyway. Just because the law says something is wrong, doesn't mean I agree with it.

-I would have been more careful with my lies. Like how he said he was going to his mother. I'd have taken into consideration that the cancer might get a bit better and you'd have to explain it. I'm more like Skyler in my lies, extremely thorough and trying to waterproof everything.


Apart from those, I really relate to him. Especially his calm attitude and then suddenly an outburst of rage (like when he punched the metal thing in the bathroom after he heard his cancer was getting better).


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## Ninjaws (Jul 10, 2014)

To_august said:


> Interesting that you've been a bit inconsistent as highlighted both following statements, while they are mutually exclusive.
> The first one indicates unvalued Ni-Te, the second one is Ni-Te valued.


The thing is, I usually aim for the longterm. However, I don't like making longterm investments, since it means I'll have to wait a long time before I get profit out of it. I see that I bit as gambling and I prefer the route with the most certainty.



> These two refer to Se-Fi. First one is unvalued Se-Fi, second one is valued Se-Fi. Then again, quite inconsistent, since the first one devalues power dynamics, while the second one clearly emphasizes it.


I don't like discussing about controversial topics if I'm not certain people will be open to it, but I do have a hardline approach when it comes to punishment. I just won't voice it in casual conversation, unless I'm certain people will not take it personally.



> Te is blunt and cold, because it deals with objective factual stuff, but it isn't bossy or pushy, or anything like that in and of itself.


I can be cold and to the point, but I tend to take a more hospitable approach, since people that are motivated will work harder than people who hate your guts.



> Te dominants I think also come off as very organized people, because they may think that it's good work ethics or organisation helps them to achieve their goals or deal with external factual environment, or something along these lines. And I guess everybody would have difficulty performing actions they don't like.


I see organization as necessary for better results, but I often have trouble sticking to it myself. My mother often tells me "You are excellent at seeing what others must do to achieve goals, but you have great problems when you have to do it yourself."




> Fi is still people and ethics oriented function and in case of being paired with Ne it's *focused on people's potential, on understanding and building relationship opportunities, on feeling of attraction/repulsion and understanding what must be done in order to change relationships the way you want them to be*, on wanting to implement your ideal ethical abstract concepts in your relationships, on understanding of psychological distance between people and desire to resolve any unclear relations towards somebody or something. Does your life really revolves around this? I didn't see it from the OP.


What I've bolded is something I do, but I do it to achieve goals. I'll be friendly and helpful to people I'm with, but only because they might be useful to me later on.


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## sicksadworlds (May 4, 2015)

Ninjaws said:


> I must admit, both the first and the third links are rather confusing. The Ni vs Si one doesn't make it much easier, since both can kinda be true. Ni/Se seems to follow the chess routine "If I do this, he'll do this, then I can do that, and he'll be defeated".
> I can't think of a clear example for Si/Ne.


Oh ok, I understand. I can't think of an example for Si+Ne, either, but I can provide you an example of Ne+Si (I think the order makes a difference, idk). I live with a strong Ne user (which also helped me to see that I'm probably not an Ne user), and the other day we were watching television and this person said a seemingly random word and I asked them "why did you say that?" and they said "This cartoon we're watching reminded me of X, which reminded me of Y, which reminded me of Z, a magazine I used to read in my childhood" (I think it displays usage of Ne+Si). The word they said had something to do with this magazine, I don't remember which word exactly it was.


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## Ninjaws (Jul 10, 2014)

sicksadworlds said:


> Oh ok, I understand. I can't think of an example for Si+Ne, either, but I can provide you an example of Ne+Si (I think the order makes a difference, idk). I live with a strong Ne user (which also helped me to see that I'm probably not an Ne user), and the other day we were watching television and this person said a seemingly random word and I asked them "why did you say that?" and they said "This cartoon we're watching reminded me of X, which reminded me of Y, which reminded me of Z, a magazine I used to read in my childhood" (I think it displays usage of Ne+Si). The word they said had something to do with this magazine, I don't remember which word exactly it was.


Something that happened a few moments ago might be an indication of Ne.

I was walking the dog with my mother talking about what I should say during my interview for college. I had written down "insight of a programmer and vision of a designer". I don't know why, but I suddenly started thinking of the Pokemon theme song like "To write 'em is my real test, to design 'em is my call!".

For me it made perfect sense but when I heard my mother's reaction and thought about it I noticed that it was extremely far-fetched (pun intended).


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## Telepathis Goosus (Mar 28, 2015)

Ninjaws said:


> Something that happened a few moments ago might be an indication of Ne.
> 
> I was walking the dog with my mother talking about what I should say during my interview for college. I had written down "insight of a programmer and vision of a designer". I don't know why, but I suddenly started thinking of the Pokemon theme song like "To write 'em is my real test, to design 'em is my call!".
> 
> For me it made perfect sense but when I heard my mother's reaction and thought about it I noticed that it was extremely far-fetched (pun intended).


That appears Ne+Si


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## Ninjaws (Jul 10, 2014)

TelepathicGoose said:


> That appears Ne+Si


That would mean Te/Fi and Ne/Si, so indeed the Delta Quadra. 

ENFP, INFP, ESTJ, ISTJ.

I'm definitely not an ENFP, considering I do not relate to dominant Ne at all.
I highly doubt ESTJ.

ISTJ and INFP, I'm not completely sure about inferior Ne, but I'm not sure about inferior Te either.
Based on the info others have provided so far, ISTJ seems more fitting.

Do ISTJs typically have a strong imagination? As a kid I loved creating worlds full of people, all with their own backstories and connections to each other. With legos I made the houses they lived in to give my imagination form. I used to play like that for months with my sister.


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## Telepathis Goosus (Mar 28, 2015)

Ninjaws said:


> That would mean Te/Fi and Ne/Si, so indeed the Delta Quadra.
> 
> Do ISTJs typically have a strong imagination? As a kid I loved creating worlds full of people, all with their own backstories and connections to each other. With legos I made the houses they lived in to give my imagination form. I used to play like that for months with my sister.


Hmm, typically, no. Having a strong, vivid imagination is usually an NP thing. INFPs and INTPs are notorious for very detailed, vivid imaginations in particular due to their Si not being repressed by Ne. I am not saying it is impossible for an ISTJ to have a vivid imagination, however (at least from my experience with the ISTJs I've known), their strong-suit is more practical, hands-on doing as opposed to having fun imagining. It's not impossible, however, although most SJs in general find imagining impractical and irrelevant to their lives.


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## Ninjaws (Jul 10, 2014)

TelepathicGoose said:


> Hmm, typically, no. Having a strong, vivid imagination is usually an NP thing. INFPs and INTPs are notorious for very detailed, vivid imaginations in particular do to their Si not being repressed by Ne. I am not saying it is impossible for an ISTJ to have a vivid imagination, however (at least from my experience with the ISTJs I've known), their strong-suit is more practical, hands-on doing as opposed to having fun imagining. It's not impossible, however, although most SJs in general find imagining impractical and irrelevant to their lives.


It might be impractical, but it is a lot more fun than being serious all the time. Like when I have a large amount of resources in a city building game like Anno, I'll just start making small communities and act like they are the rich people who have their own backyards and stuff.


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## Telepathis Goosus (Mar 28, 2015)

Ninjaws said:


> It might be impractical, but it is a lot more fun than being serious all the time. Like when I have a large amount of resources in a city building game like Anno, I'll just start making small communities and act like they are the rich people who have their own backyards and stuff.


Ah, that actually reminds me a bit of what my best friend (who is an ISTJ) does. He loves inventing various civilizations, and he absolutely adores steam punk and anything technological. He even made his own video game once, although gave up because it looked too much like someone else's.

I would definitely say ISTJ over INFP for you. I am positive you are a TJ type.


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## Ninjaws (Jul 10, 2014)

TelepathicGoose said:


> Ah, that actually reminds me a bit of what my best friend (who is an ISTJ) does. He loves inventing various civilizations, and he absolutely adores steam punk and anything technological. He even made his own video game once, although gave up because it looked too much like someone else's.
> 
> I would definitely say ISTJ over INFP for you. I am positive you are a TJ type.


Perhaps the clue is in my own posts. I said "when I have a large amount of resources" before the goofing off part.
I take care of all problems before I start doing random stuff. This is quite ISTJ-esque, I think.

Good grief, let this finally be the right one! If I keep it up at this rate I'm going to have had all 16 types by the end of this year. 

Anyways, thanks for the help, everyone!


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

Sorry for not commenting sooner :blushed:
I'll read the questionnaire tomorrow,ok?


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## Telepathis Goosus (Mar 28, 2015)

Ninjaws said:


> Perhaps the clue is in my own posts. I said "when I have a large amount of resources" before the goofing off part.
> I take care of all problems before I start doing random stuff. This is quite ISTJ-esque, I think.
> 
> Good grief, let this finally be the right one! If I keep it up at this rate I'm going to have had all 16 types by the end of this year.
> ...


Well, you do surely remind me a lot of my friend. ^^

Ah, no problem! You were fun to type.


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## Ninjaws (Jul 10, 2014)

TelepathicGoose said:


> My ISTJ friend is quite lazy, sometimes _I_ have to force him to work. The thing with him is that he can organize and plan to do his work for ages, but sometimes it's hard for him to actually _do _the work. Does this resonate at all?


Sorry, I missed this one. 

That's exactly like me! I am really good at making plans for years into the future, with multiple paths to follow based on the choices and possible failures. But actually doing something? Oh boy. xD

My mother tends to be the one who tells me to step it up, since I can get stuck in a comfortable unproductive flow (I might start watching a tv series all day just so that I don't have to focus on work). From what I've read, that's quite typical for Si users (seeking comfort above all).


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## Telepathis Goosus (Mar 28, 2015)

Ninjaws said:


> Sorry, I missed this one.
> 
> That's exactly like me! I am really good at making plans for years into the future, with multiple paths to follow based on the choices and possible failures. But actually doing something? Oh boy. xD
> 
> My mother tends to be the one who tells me to step it up, since I can get stuck in a comfortable unproductive flow (I might start watching a tv series all day just so that I don't have to focus on work). From what I've read, that's quite typical for Si users (seeking comfort above all).


Ah, I see. ^^' Yep, you're definitely an ISTJ.

Don't worry about the stereotypes that ISTJ's are always doing their work _constantly._ No one is that insane, after all. Also, keep in mind that ISTJ's (along with the rest of the IxxJ types) are perceiving dominants, so they're naturally not going to be as diligent in the "judging" sense as the ExxJ types. As long as you're normally good at organizing and planning, you're definitely an ISTJ.

Ah, I read that about Si seeking comfort. Although I have baby Si compared to you, I can see that little bits of just wanting to take care of myself come into play from time to time, something to do with tertiary functions giving us our motivation- or something. I'd definitely prefer being comfortable and relaxing than constantly on the go, which is typical of the Si/Ne axis. The Ni/Se axis is more "go!go!go!" in that respect xD

I'm glad you found your type, and if you have any more questions, feel free to ask. ^^


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## To_august (Oct 13, 2013)

Ninjaws said:


> The thing is, I usually aim for the longterm. However, I don't like making longterm investments, since it means I'll have to wait a long time before I get profit out of it. I see that I bit as gambling and I prefer the route with the most certainty.
> 
> I don't like discussing about controversial topics if I'm not certain people will be open to it, but I do have a hardline approach when it comes to punishment. I just won't voice it in casual conversation, unless I'm certain people will not take it personally.


That's more Te on your part and not seeing anything that would suggest Ni-Se axis.



> I can be cold and to the point, but I tend to take a more hospitable approach, since people that are motivated will work harder than people who hate your guts.
> 
> I see organization as necessary for better results, but I often have trouble sticking to it myself. My mother often tells me "You are excellent at seeing what others must do to achieve goals, but you have great problems when you have to do it yourself."
> 
> What I've bolded is something I do, but I do it to achieve goals. I'll be friendly and helpful to people I'm with, but only because they might be useful to me later on.


Delta values once again. Understanding of personal needs of people combined with best strategy for efficiency.
Organisation is only a tool for achieving the desired result, which can be used when appropriate, and not the ultimate goal in and of itself.
Yep. More Si-Te and Fi.



Ninjaws said:


> Do ISTJs typically have a strong imagination? As a kid I loved creating worlds full of people, all with their own backstories and connections to each other. With legos I made the houses they lived in to give my imagination form. I used to play like that for months with my sister.


I'm not seeing why ISTJ shouldn't /shrug

I assume to be Si-Te in some order and used to be big on writing, wanted to become a writer even. I started different writing projects at some point, mostly with excessive world-building and psychological bent. Never finished any of this though, as I've been prone to adding too much stuff and permanently rewriting it.

Vivid imagination or desire to imagine/create something has nothing to do with type imo, and more to do with personal interest in those tasks.


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