# Guys I don't find attractive message me, guys I send messages to NEVER respond to the



## Children Of The Bad Revolution

What gives? Is there some weird paradox here? It seems only guys way out of my age limit, weirdos and perverts send me messages on OkCupid, but the guys I sent fun messages to, to say hello and introduce myself want nothing to do with me? 

Wat do? Am super confused about this, it happens EVERY time? Halp?


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## Tsu

It most likely is a case of desperation from the guys. I am willing to bet you are not the only lady that they approach in this fashion on that site. You are most likely just another target to project their desires on.

As regarding the men who are not responding back, there is a strong possibility that they are potentially courting with someone else. Not every single guy will leap between several women at once during the dating phase.
Furthermore, it is also a very realistic possibility that they know what they are looking for in a woman. They might have specific wants or needs, though that should matter little regarding first impressions.

Do they not message you at all, even after you approached and introduced yourself? No correspondence whatsoever?


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## Gossip Goat

Maybe they're thinking: "Girls I don't find attractive message me, girls I send messages to NEVER respond to the messages I send them. What gives? Is there some weird paradox here? It seems only milf's way out of my age limit, weird girls and fat chicks send me messages on OkCupid, but the girls I sent fun messages to, to say hello and introduce myself want nothing to do with me? ".


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## Zelz

Gossip Goat said:


> Maybe they're thinking: "Girls I don't find attractive message me, girls I send messages to NEVER respond to the messages I send them. What gives? Is there some weird paradox here? It seems only milf's way out of my age limit, weird girls and fat chicks send me messages on OkCupid, but the girls I sent fun messages to, to say hello and introduce myself want nothing to do with me? ".


More often than not, more men would contact women than the other way around. I agree with @Tsu that women are commonly approached that way on dating sites. It's nothing personal. Tsu made a lot of valid considerations. 

I do like to point out that some men do prefer women being the initiator. But... I wouldn't call this common. 

That is probably asking for too much. But to narrow down the possibility...

We also need to analyze what kind of fun msgs OP have been sending, her profile, and the men she is targeting to make a better assessment.


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## Veggie

Don't send the initial messages. Dudes see it as pressure as a first impression and that's like their least favorite thing Lol.

I've gone to profiles before. Just checked them out. I've witnessed those dudes then showing up in my profile, sometimes several times, before sending the "hey" message. I'm confident it's coming  So I don't jump the gun and send it first.

(Boo gender roles. Blah blah blah. Do you want these guys to message you or not? Lol).


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## Veggie

Veggie said:


> Dudes see it as pressure as a first impression and that's like their least favorite thing Lol.


Maybe there's some correlation here to the fact that the guy eventually needs the hard on. There's always lube for the womenz and stuff, but there isn't really an equivalent for guys. (Other than pills that might feel emasculating if you aren't mid to older aged).

Get him hard in spirit first, then approach (if you even have to at that point). LOL.

(I don't know what I'm talking about, but then again... maybe I do).


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## Sporadic Aura

Oh man, you _are_ thirsty as fuck.


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## WamphyriThrall

Are they unattractive because they message you (and the other, attractive because they're out of your reach)?


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## Jbot

I was on OkCupid for a while. I've got the gist of it. A lot of guys on there are playing the numbers game, sending the same introductory message to as many girls as they can. The ones I have taken the initiative to message 1st usually reply back. However, I noticed that they are usually wary and skeptical. I asked one of them what he thought about me messaging 1st. Here's what he said:
1. Girls normally don't message 1st so I could be a scammer (or desperate/emotionally unhealthy/boring/unattractive).
2. He wouldn't reply if our match percentage is low or my profile is bare/sketchy.
If you like a guy, you can visit his profile just to let him know you checked him out. If he is interested, he will message you.


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## Up and Away

Hmm well. Work on your pictures, work on saying exactly what you want in an attractive way. You will get there. *smiles


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## Belzy

Veggie said:


> Don't send the initial messages. Dudes see it as pressure as a first impression and that's like their least favorite thing Lol.
> 
> I've gone to profiles before. Just checked them out. I've witnessed those dudes then showing up in my profile, sometimes several times, before sending the "hey" message. I'm confident it's coming  So I don't jump the gun and send it first.
> 
> (Boo gender roles. Blah blah blah. Do you want these guys to message you or not? Lol).


Is this is why girls never sent me a message first?

Boo gender roles!


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## sometimes

It is best to send the first message to guys you actually like. I think a lot of them are actually too shy to make the first move on that site out of the ones who could actually be decent. And it's always the unappealing ones who send all the messages. Think I was on OkayCupid for about a week a couple of years ago and I got so many messages every day and literally none of them were from anyone I was remotely interested in. Of course all the desperate guys are gonna message all the women on there. And the few guys who I might be interested in probably don't know what they're doing on there as much as me and are unsure maybe even if they did happen to like you so you can test the waters by making the first move on that site. It's not like real life. I mean I wouldn't chat someone up in real life and the type of guys I am interested in wouldn't randomly start 'hitting on me' either but if you're on that site I think that's the only way to do it really. How many have you sent messages to that didn't reply?


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## Veggie

pippylongstocking said:


> And it's always the unappealing ones who send all the messages.


Hasn't been my experience. I get a lot of messages from dudes who might be out of my league really. Lol. (But everyone online is a persona until you get to know them, so).

Gotten lucky and I think I've only gotten one overtly pervy msg so far.


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## Veggie

AAADD said:


> Is this is why girls never sent me a message first?
> 
> Boo gender roles!


Do you represent yourself as a gender neutral fourteen year old chick on online dating sites too?

Haha.

If so. Then yea. If I don't make exceptions for six pack, I definitely wouldn't for you. Lol.


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## ShatteredHeart

Well this sux, Thanks to this thread, I remembered I had an OKC profile. So I popped over and had a waiting like and message from (of all people) one of my supervisors at work. Yeah, the one that has been given me shit work and riding my ass for the last month. Well at least that makes some sense. Time to find a new job.


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## BenevolentBitterBleeding




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## tanstaafl28

Children Of The Bad Revolution said:


> What gives? Is there some weird paradox here? It seems only guys way out of my age limit, weirdos and perverts send me messages on OkCupid, but the guys I sent fun messages to, to say hello and introduce myself want nothing to do with me?
> 
> Wat do? Am super confused about this, it happens EVERY time? Halp?


How about you try some other way of finding people to date besides OKCupid? Seems to me if you're not getting the cross-section of men you're interested in, then both your profile, and choice of venue, is probably to blame.


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## Children Of The Bad Revolution

Tsu said:


> It most likely is a case of desperation from the guys. I am willing to bet you are not the only lady that they approach in this fashion on that site. You are most likely just another target to project their desires on.
> 
> As regarding the men who are not responding back, there is a strong possibility that they are potentially courting with someone else. Not every single guy will leap between several women at once during the dating phase.
> Furthermore, it is also a very realistic possibility that they know what they are looking for in a woman. They might have specific wants or needs, though that should matter little regarding first impressions.
> 
> Do they not message you at all, even after you approached and introduced yourself? No correspondence whatsoever?


They just completely ignore me. I know, it happens and yes it's disheartening but...every time? It's like, a weird pattern.


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## Children Of The Bad Revolution

Sporadic Aura said:


> Oh man, you _are_ thirsty as fuck.


Lol, who isn't?


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## Children Of The Bad Revolution

Sporadic Aura said:


> Oh man, you _are_ thirsty as fuck.


Lol. Who isn't?


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## Children Of The Bad Revolution

WamphyriThrall said:


> Are they unattractive because they message you (and the other, attractive because they're out of your reach)?


They're unattractive because I don't find them attractive, they're rude or pervy. I've gotten harassed on there more times than anything else. Is this 'normal' part of an online dating experience for women? 
@Gossip Goat, what that tells me on the flip side, is that they probably think I'm fat. Haha.
@pippylongstocking, I'd say about 98% of the time they don't. It puts me off but I want to keep trying, obviously pleasant, fun and flattering messages but it does put you off a little.


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## MolaMola

Dude, online dating is a number's game for girls too. By the way, I've been on OKC since 2009. I ALWAYS message people I like. I've had a lot of success.* If a guy gets all weirded out or feels pressured because *gasp* you messaged him first than he's fucking dumb and I wouldn't want to date someone like that. I think some people in this thread are giving you really bad advice. *

I'm not a dude, but as an uninterested third party female I'm happy to look at your OKCupid and tell you if anything pops out at me that should be fixed. But honestly I think you are just experiencing the same frustration that *everyone* experiences at some point while using OKC. So don't worry or feel bad about yourself.


Just message the guys you like! Eventually some will message back.


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## wickedly

NewMango said:


> Dude, online dating is a number's game for girls too. By the way, I've been on OKC since 2009. I ALWAYS message people I like. I've had a lot of success.* If a guy gets all weirded out or feels pressured because *gasp* you messaged him first than he's fucking dumb and I wouldn't want to date someone like that. I think some people in this thread are giving you really bad advice. *
> 
> I'm not a dude, but as an uninterested third party female I'm happy to look at your OKCupid and tell you if anything pops out at me that should be fixed. But honestly I think you are just experiencing the same frustration that *everyone* experiences at some point while using OKC. So don't worry or feel bad about yourself.
> 
> 
> Just message the guys you like! Eventually some will message back.


this!

or you can always go outside and find event's you think the type of guy you like is interested in. allow that guy to have an "in" with you.


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## LostFavor

Gossip Goat said:


> Maybe they're thinking: "Girls I don't find attractive message me, girls I send messages to NEVER respond to the messages I send them. What gives? Is there some weird paradox here? It seems only milf's way out of my age limit, weird girls and fat chicks send me messages on OkCupid, but the girls I sent fun messages to, to say hello and introduce myself want nothing to do with me? ".


Lol, sounds about right. 

In my experiences (and maybe some of it is just the area you're located in) OkCupid is a crapshoot most of the time. It's probably only gotten worse with the advent of shit like Tinder. Cause nobody wants to sit on a website designed for a PC doing dating anymore. 

Thing is, I've never really played the numbers game on a dating website, so my odds aren't good to begin with, but when I have tried dating websites, I've sent plenty of messages, ranging from playful to intellectual to serious and always always referencing at least one thing on their profile. Usually really making an effort to find some meaningful connection.

Gotten maybe 2 replies in all the times I've done it, which quickly petered out into nothing. Now I'm not afraid to admit I have no game in RL, but I'm pretty good with words and to be summarily ignored even there, when I'm making a concerted effort, is a bit of an oddity for me. 

But getting back to your concern in the OP, if you're just looking to understand, try thinking of it this way (this is roughly how it tends to be for me): 

If I'm a guy and I get maybe 1 or 2 messages a month (if that) I'm going to tend to be very self-conscious about it and assume that my profile at least (if I don't go to the place of blaming it on me as a person) is unappealing. So when I get those rare messages, my first reaction is going to be... is this person desperate? I might even do some mental gymnastics and think, "If this person finds me attractive in this form that is unattractive to most people, is that really someone I want to be with?"

More importantly, and this is the real kicker setting aside all of those mental twists and turns: Is she attractive to me? 

If you think of it in statistics, what are the odds that she'd actually fit what I'm looking for? Especially if I'm at all picky? 

I get that some guys have this thing where they find it unattractive if a woman messages them, but I don't have that problem at all. The main dealbreaker, in my experiences, when a woman messages me is, she's not even close to what I'm looking for. And I would only feel desperate and stupid if I replied to a woman who I don't feel particularly interested in, just because she's one of the few who sent a message. 

I spose if I had to sum this whole thing up, I'd put it something like this: Dating is already a shitty numbers game (and is really only enjoyable if you enjoy the dating process). Online dating is even _more_ of a numbers game. The only real difference is, if you get really specific and statistically-minded about it, you can more quickly find who you're looking for with online dating. 

But you almost need to be as nerdy and thorough as this woman to get anywhere, beyond pure luck: 




Still, I think the determining factor in getting dates at all through online stuff is: Do you already have game in RL? If you do, you can probably figure out how to work it into online and hook up with people. If you have no game, or you're online cause RL stuff is hard for you, it's probably going to show through in what you wrote. I have a feeling that's why my attempts have been such hard failures. I just don't have game and it shows.

Hopefully there's something applicable to you in all this. My thoughts are going every which-way right now.


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## Tsu

Children Of The Bad Revolution said:


> They just completely ignore me. I know, it happens and yes it's disheartening but...every time? It's like, a weird pattern.


Based on the (limited) information and the responses people have given, it most likely is a case of a bad first impression either through profile picture, or possibly information on the profile itself (because people *will* read your information, and how they process it is also mapped into the first impression of you!).

Don't forget that people on OKC might also be at a stage of fear. "Oh damn, this person is nearby, what if they are fake?" Etc.
It sounds like I am spouting bullshit, but it's difficult to believe and trust absolutely anyone and everyone on the internet. I doubt it would be the main factor in this equation as to why you are not getting a response, but I certainly would not ignore it. People have the power to ignore and disappear from you at the first sign of them getting cold feet for any reason.

Just like how others have offered, I am willing to offer a neutral opinion of your profile info or introduction as well (just do it via PM). You don't have to take the offer, but just know that it's there. I would suggest you get at least one neutral opinion, if not for anything but reassurance.


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## Belzy

Veggie said:


> Do you represent yourself as a gender neutral fourteen year old chick on online dating sites too?
> 
> Haha.
> 
> If so. Then yea. If I don't make exceptions for six pack, I definitely wouldn't for you. Lol.


No, I will tell her about my gender issues once we've started chatting. That one person I have talked with on OKcupid, but I wasn't really interested in chatting with someone else a well there. I did start the conversation myself, apparently I have to...


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## Alles_Paletti

If you find a guy attractive and therefore message them, chances are you're not the only one who thinks they are attractive. 

Which means there might be someone in the maybe many people that messaged them that are more interesting to them than you. Or girls they messaged themselves and are already talking to that they find more interesting than the message they just got from you. 

That doesn't mean there's something wrong with you. There's just a lot of competition.


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## Children Of The Bad Revolution

Alles_Paletti said:


> If you find a guy attractive and therefore message them, chances are you're not the only one who thinks they are attractive.
> 
> Which means there might be someone in the maybe many people that messaged them that are more interesting to them than you. Or girls they messaged themselves and are already talking to that they find more interesting than the message they just got from you.
> 
> That doesn't mean there's something wrong with you. There's just a lot of competition.


Sounds about right.


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## Sporadic Aura

Children Of The Bad Revolution said:


> Lol. Who isn't?


People who get laid on a regular basis.


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## Children Of The Bad Revolution

Sporadic Aura said:


> People who get laid on a regular basis.


Good for them? You're on this thread to put me down, are you?

You come onto every single one of my threads and say some mean ass shit to try and stir up some reaction. It's cute and kind of flattering but more pathetic. If you don't have anything to say or any advice to give me, then go away and stop stalking my posts.


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## Vahyavishdapaya

Lower your standards, improve your appeal, or go without. There's no fourth way.


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## hal0hal0

*thread warning

keep the advice constructive, please.*​


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## Veggie

NewMango said:


> Dude, online dating is a number's game for girls too. By the way, I've been on OKC since 2009. I ALWAYS message people I like. I've had a lot of success.* If a guy gets all weirded out or feels pressured because *gasp* you messaged him first than he's fucking dumb and I wouldn't want to date someone like that. I think some people in this thread are giving you really bad advice. *


As someone who never messages people first I've had a lot of (only, really) success too, (if we're talking getting the dates with the people you want), and the guys I'm attracted to message me first :3 (Not that this is a requirement necessarily, it's just worked out that way).

So if it's working for me I don't see how it's bad advice? What you're suggesting obviously isn't working for her. It is a numbers game. You don't want to commit yourself to something that just might yield eventually.

He might be picky (if he has more options especially, other people probably find him attractive too) and since it's not the norm he might wonder why she can't confidently sit back and wait for him to come to her like most other women on the site. Not everyone gauges confidence in the same way. Some people see forward women as confident, some see them as potentially desperate and wonder if they're demanding otherwise. I think it's safe to say that neither men or women are generally attracted to those traits. She's in the screening process where people have to make fast judgment calls, especially since it's online.



Children Of The Bad Revolution said:


> @Gossip Goat, what that tells me on the flip side, is that they probably think I'm fat. Haha.


Well, I've seen pictures and you aren't fat, but guys are sniffing around for that, as unpleasant as that truth might be. Is that really you? How old is that picture? Do you have any more? What kind of activities are you into? (I.e. are they physical? How often are you doing them?) Your attitude is key too. You have to give off an air that yes you are hot and you have other options imo (it's most convincing when you actually do  I've made it a rule to always be talking to at least a couple people at a time) and not let them put you through their screening process more so than you're putting them through yours. As annoying as it is, most dudes assume that interest on your part means that you want their babies and instantaneous commitment, and so you can't be too eager up front with that interest, again, imo.


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## Children Of The Bad Revolution

Veggie said:


> Well, I've seen pictures and you aren't fat, but guys are sniffing around for that, as unpleasant as that truth might be. Is that really you? How old is that picture? Do you have any more? What kind of activities are you into? (I.e. are they physical? How often are you doing them?) Your attitude is key too. You have to give off an air that yes you are hot and you have other options imo (it's most convincing when you actually do  I've made it a rule to always be talking to at least a couple people at a time) and not let them put you through their screening process more so than you're putting them through yours. As annoying as it is, most dudes assume that interest on your part means that you want their babies and instantaneous commitment, and so you can't be too eager up front with that interest, again, imo.


I know they are :s

Which picture are you talking about? All my pics are me  this is my main photo I'm using at the moment:-










I'm more into photography and music, and books. I'm not overly athletic but I like tennis a lot. I like to talk about a lot on dates, I hate awkward silences :X. It's also good to find out similar interests. Although, I have one memory about this guy who totally spent the whole date like, ragging on my interests and ragging on Harry Potter books and called all the characters dumb lol. Not that I'm a big fan but it was not good lol I have quite a few bad date stories, I wonder if there is a thread to share those in lol 

You're so helpful and informative @Veggie


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## WamphyriThrall

That said, I've been surprised by some of the stuffy replies from online people. I'm not even on OKC for dating or sex, but to practice socializing. If someone says, "Nice hair!" don't go, "Uhm" or, "Not, it isn't". Say, "Thank you!" or ignore and move on.


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## Zelz

You can find gems using virtual tools, but not all men that fits your criteria are available and using dating sites. And even if they are, you'd need more than one dating tool for a better selection.

Evaluating people's confidence, interests, respectability in person may be better in your case. Expand the area you are looking more. 

Don't worry about dating to lower your disappointment.


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## Veggie

Children Of The Bad Revolution said:


> I know they are :s
> 
> Which picture are you talking about? All my pics are me


Oh, I should have added quotation marks I guess, lol. I was basically role playing as them  That's how it usually goes down for me...

My favorite was the dude who was flat out - "You're not some cat fishing 500lbs dude from west Texas ...Are you?"

Hahaha. We were texting for a while, but he kept popping up at the same time that this other guy did who I'd already agreed to go out with, so. And that's the problem with having a couple people around at once I guess.

He probably thought I was making excuses about hanging out because I was a catfishing overweight Texan though...

That's the next frontier I want to explore. How best to re-open closed doors. Our interaction kind of just fizzled out without securing a meet-up, and it didn't even work out with the other guy when we went out. But texting him again now would be weird I think... Maybe he's even with someone else.



Children Of The Bad Revolution said:


> this is my main photo I'm using at the moment:-


This is gorgeous. Seriously. It's well balanced too. You look sexy but you aren't showing too much off, your make-up isn't overdone, your hair is styled nicely. You aren't giving off any one "vibe" too much either - which is good I think personally, since people tend to stereotype at first, so you aren't limiting your options.



Children Of The Bad Revolution said:


> I'm more into photography and music, and books. I'm not overly athletic but I like tennis a lot. I like to talk about a lot on dates, I hate awkward silences :X. It's also good to find out similar interests. Although, I have one memory about this guy who totally spent the whole date like, ragging on my interests and ragging on Harry Potter books and called all the characters dumb lol. Not that I'm a big fan but it was not good lol I have quite a few bad date stories, I wonder if there is a thread to share those in lol


I'm weird, but I almost like it when I get ragged on. Arguing can be a turn on. Haha. So long as it isn't like... a full on argument. But I like turning that kind of stuff around on guys and ragging on them a little bit back. I actually still talk to a guy who made fun of the Harry Potter thing, because I'm into it too. I was just kinda like, uh, do you even Harry Potter? Loser. Lol. I think he for real started to get annoyed by how little shame I had about it though, and sent me this weird text out of the blue one night about how I'm "a super nerd who's always doing nerd shit" ...and I didn't deny it. Like - I'm sorry I'm not behaving appropriately, sir? 

I actually think I have seen a bad date thread before in S&R, lol.


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## Children Of The Bad Revolution

Veggie said:


> Oh, I should have added quotation marks I guess, lol. I was basically role playing as them  That's how it usually goes down for me...
> 
> My favorite was the dude who was flat out - "You're not some cat fishing 500lbs dude from west Texas ...Are you?"
> 
> Hahaha. We were texting for a while, but he kept popping up at the same time that this other guy did who I'd already agreed to go out with, so. And that's the problem with having a couple people around at once I guess.
> 
> He probably thought I was making excuses about hanging out because I was a catfishing overweight Texan though...
> 
> That's the next frontier I want to explore. How best to re-open closed doors. Our interaction kind of just fizzled out without securing a meet-up, and it didn't even work out with the other guy when we went out. But texting him again now would be weird I think... Maybe he's even with someone else.
> 
> 
> 
> This is gorgeous. Seriously. It's well balanced too. You look sexy but you aren't showing too much off, your make-up isn't overdone, your hair is styled nicely. You aren't giving off any one "vibe" too much either - which is good I think personally, since people tend to stereotype at first, so you aren't limiting your options.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm weird, but I almost like it when I get ragged on. Arguing can be a turn on. Haha. So long as it isn't like... a full on argument. But I like turning that kind of stuff around on guys and ragging on them a little bit back. I actually still talk to a guy who made fun of the Harry Potter thing, because I'm into it too. I was just kinda like, uh, do you even Harry Potter? Loser. Lol. I think he for real started to get annoyed by how little shame I had about it though, and sent me this weird text out of the blue one night about how I'm "a super nerd who's always doing nerd shit" ...and I didn't deny it. Like - I'm sorry I'm not behaving appropriately, sir?
> 
> I actually think I have seen a bad date thread before in S&R, lol.


Lol I was exactly the same. I was like, I can't even...Really...he called you a nerd? Like, as a pejorative? Hahaha. That's so funny. But thanks for your comments,  I'm kind of like, what more do you guys want right nao? The Duchess of Cambridge? Come in y'all. Lol. 

Yeah it's kind of nice to have a light hearted debate/teasing session. I totally get what you mean there because as you have probably witnessed, I can be quite stubborn XD


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## MolaMola

Veggie said:


> As someone who never messages people first I've had a lot of (only, really) success too, (if we're talking getting the dates with the people you want), and the guys I'm attracted to message me first :3 (Not that this is a requirement necessarily, it's just worked out that way).
> 
> So if it's working for me I don't see how it's bad advice? What you're suggesting obviously isn't working for her. It is a numbers game. You don't want to commit yourself to something that just might yield eventually.
> 
> He might be picky (if he has more options especially, other people probably find him attractive too) and since it's not the norm he might wonder why she can't confidently sit back and wait for him to come to her like most other women on the site. Not everyone gauges confidence in the same way. Some people see forward women as confident, some see them as potentially desperate and wonder if they're demanding otherwise. I think it's safe to say that neither men or women are generally attracted to those traits. She's in the screening process where people have to make fast judgment calls, especially since it's online.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I've seen pictures and you aren't fat, but guys are sniffing around for that, as unpleasant as that truth might be. Is that really you? How old is that picture? Do you have any more? What kind of activities are you into? (I.e. are they physical? How often are you doing them?) Your attitude is key too. You have to give off an air that yes you are hot and you have other options imo (it's most convincing when you actually do  I've made it a rule to always be talking to at least a couple people at a time) and not let them put you through their screening process more so than you're putting them through yours. As annoying as it is, most dudes assume that interest on your part means that you want their babies and instantaneous commitment, and so you can't be too eager up front with that interest, again, imo.


The difference between you and me, @Veggie: I would never consider dating a man with such idiotic and sexist assumptions about women. Men who DON'T think that way are out there, and they're the ONLY ones I'll date. Case closed. 

I'm glad that what you do works for you, but I would never tolerate that shit. Sorry to get snappy with you, but just *thinking* that a man would make that sort of ridiculous assumption about me makes me bristle with anger. 

Also, @Children Of The Bad Revolution : Giiiirl you are ROCKING it! I absolutely adore this photo of you. You ARE pretty, and you give off such great vibes here. I feel like I really get a sense of your personality. Don't worry, the guy for you is out there! <3


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## MolaMola

I'm ME. I'm assertive, I like to chat, I have no problem messaging people first. I'm dominant. If a guy isn't into that, then it would never work between us. So screening me out on the basis of messaging first is doing us both a favor.


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## Chesire Tower

Veggie said:


> What do you see as having a slight advantage?


That I was the one doing the choosing; as I already stated, the advantage was only slight.


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## sinaasappel

would you rather the creepy old man? I know plenty! :kitteh:


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## Derange At 170

Veggie said:


> It's up to you to present yourself as a "potential partner" though. Trying to determine what associations the person is making, either consciously or subconsciously.


No. I have already stated that you play a role in presentation and there is nothing wrong working on improving your chances through presentation. Even in reply to an earlier post of yours. However, I reassured the OP that no matter how well she presents herself, there will always be people who are simply not attracted to her and vica versa. Regardess of effort. And that this does not reflect poorly on her as a person or someone's potential partner.



Veggie said:


> If you're staring into a vacuum, then forming conclusions - evidence or not - could arguably be helpful. It gives you something to test. If you make an assumption, tweak your approach accordingly, and then achieve a series of successes, it's safe to decide that your assumption may have been correct.


But no one tested any hyptheses. People made sweeping, baseless generalizations and passed them off as fact. 



Veggie said:


> She's being told that dating is a numbers game and your advice was basically keep on keeping on with what you're doing that isn't producing numbers and someone will eventually work out xD


No, it isn't. I was explaining to her that her advances not being reciprocated does not necessarily reflect poorly on her as a person. I did not say nor imply that there is no room in improvement on her part.



Veggie said:


> You were also kind of acting like some of the women on this thread don't understand men since we aren't men, but we were like hey girl, try this (I think we all independently suggested the same thing)... and she's like, thanks y'all, it worked. So maybe give us at least some credit. Lol.


No. I merely countered a baseless assumption and sweeping generalization about how every man thinks.

You have a tendency to put words in my mouth. You are either strawmanning me, or overly confident in your ability to read people's intentions, thoughts or motivations; drawing some pretty exagerated conclusions from it.

I don't think that anything I'm saying to the contrary will convince you otherwise and I think you're set in your ways. And I think this would turn into you trying to convince me that you know what I think better than I do. Which would be the equivalent of Sisyphus rolling a boulder up mountain.

These last two paragraphs are not meant to come across as agressive, Ti is just dominating here.



Veggie said:


> Unless choosing not to initiate conversation in the future got them what they wanted.


And then there are a number of women who innitiated conversation with me who got what they wanted. And not a single woman who did the thing where she checked out my profile multiple times actually got a messagr from me. There is no hard and fast rule here. What works some may not work for others and it's a gamble. But there is nothing _fundamentally_ counterproductive to messaging men first.


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## Veggie

Derange At 170 said:


> No. I have already stated that you play a role in presentation and there is nothing wrong working on improving your chances through presentation. Even in reply to an earlier post of yours. However, I reassured the OP that no matter how well she presents herself, there will always be people who are simply not attracted to her and vica versa. Regardess of effort. And that this does not reflect poorly on her as a person or someone's potential partner.


I was responding to your saying (or at least, so I thought...) that even once you get past initial attraction (assuming you meant more primal) that there is still the matter of whether or not someone would actually see you as a potential partner. Since this is largely more psychological, my point was that really you have more power here to persuade their opinion, for better or worse.

Anyway, rereading that post quote, I think I just misinterpreted what you wrote... _"The fact that we can meet what we consider "many people" we're attracted to who are attracted to us doesn't negate that there is a gigantic number of people who cannot see us as potential partners."_

As a reasonably attractive women I'm honestly used to more men being attracted to me on some level than not since men tend to be less choosy physically. The issue is usually whether or not we connect past that, so I see "attraction" broadly and "potential partner" as two separate things and I read it that way.



Derange At 170 said:


> But no one tested any hyptheses.


That's assumption on your part! 

I believe I said that I have done a lot of tests and experiments within the realm of dating. I also said that I've done them with individual people too so that I can't debase every conclusion with - well, everyone's just different. I've started to pick up on trends and vibes, very similarly to how I used to do professionally. 



Derange At 170 said:


> No, it isn't. I was explaining to her that her advances not being reciprocated does not necessarily reflect poorly on her as a person. I did not say nor imply that there is no room in improvement on her part.


I don't think that anyone was saying that someone's perception of her reflects poorly on her as a person. Just that it may be perception. It may not be too, it may be something beyond her control. But all she can do to improve her numbers game is to focus on what could be within her control.



Derange At 170 said:


> No. I merely countered a baseless assumption and sweeping generalization about how men think.


You don't speak for all men, and given that posters have been able to defend their positions, they aren't _baseless_ assumptions.



Derange At 170 said:


> You have a tendency to put words in my mouth. You are either strawmanning me, or overly confident in your ability to read people's intentions, thoughts or motivations; drawing some pretty exagerated conclusions from it.


How could you know if I were _overly_ confident or not? Maybe I'm appropriately confident. LOL.



Derange At 170 said:


> I don't think that anything I'm saying to the contrary will convince you otherwise and I think you're set in your ways. And I think this would turn into you trying to convince me that you know what I think better than I do. Which would be the equivalent of Sisyphus rolling a boulder up mountain.


I'm not trying to convince you that I know what you think. Just that I have a fair amount of reasoning for what I think.

You're an ENTP dude. You guys tend to be more trappers than hunters from what I've observed. I believe that you think what you think. I don't believe, however, that it's as universal to men as you think it is. I might not be a man, but I've dated a lot of them.



Derange At 170 said:


> And then there are a number of women who innitiated conversation with me who got what they wanted. And not a single woman who did the thing where she checked out my profile multiple times actually got a messagr from me. There is no hard and fast rule here. What works some may not work for others and it's a gamble. But there is nothing _fundamentally_ counterproductive to messaging men first.


I actually usually only check out the profile once, but, anyway. And that's usually only if I've gotten a like too. But I'm a newbie and I'm still getting inundated, so it doesn't make a lot of sense to wade through guys who haven't expressed interest when I could wade through guys who have. (Maybe I'll change my tune if that starts drying up and I'm in more of a ...desperate place. See how that works? Lol).

If I went to your profile and didn't receive a message then I wouldn't get what I want if what I wanted was for you to message me. What I want isn't you yet, anyway. It's numbers, and something more formulaic and proven to gauge feels to save time and energy. Lol. So. Moving on.


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## Acrylic

Despotic Ocelot said:


> ^^^ Still needs to save me from the Trumpocalypse.
> 
> Come on. Pisces don't let pisces get eaten by rampaging thief gangs in a dystopian post-apocalyptic America.


 @Chesire Tower , um... I, uhh... how do I put this...

Well. While watching Morning Joe, I heard this out of Joe Scarborough's mouth "several months ago, a foreign policy expert went to advise Donald Trump, and 3 times he asked about the use of nuclear weapons. 3 times he asked "if we have them, why can't we use them?" 3 times in a one hour briefing"

Chesire Tower... pwease, pwetty pwease help me escape to Canada so I can escape nuclear winter. I've heard about nuclear winter, and I gotta admit... it doesn't sound like it would be one of my most favorite things.


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## Chesire Tower

Despotic Ocelot said:


> @*Chesire Tower* , um... I, uhh... how do I put this...
> 
> Well. While watching Morning Joe, I heard this out of Joe Scarborough's mouth "several months ago, a foreign policy expert went to advise Donald Trump, and 3 times he asked about the use of nuclear weapons. 3 times he asked "if we have them, why can't we use them?" 3 times in a one hour briefing"
> 
> Chesire Tower... pwease, pwetty pwease help me escape to Canada so I can escape nuclear winter. I've heard about nuclear winter, and I gotta admit... it doesn't sound like it would be one of my most favorite things.


Oh sorry about not responding to your post; I tend to get distracted quite easily. :blushed:

Yes, I am aware of that video and I feel your horror. *HUGGIES*? 

But as deeply as I empathize with your impending pain; alack alas, my position on green cards has not changed.


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## Acrylic

Alright. Well, if the Canadian Yeti ever finally shows himself, and starts gobbling up people left and right... don't look to hide out here. 

I'll say "yea, remember when I wanted to hide out there until the nuclear radiation went away? now look at me. I have a third arm growing out of my second head. so you're gonna have to see if you can talk him out of killing you or something"


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## Solrac026

Children Of The Bad Revolution said:


> I know they are :s
> 
> Which picture are you talking about? All my pics are me  this is my main photo I'm using at the moment:-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm more into photography and music, and books. I'm not overly athletic but I like tennis a lot. I like to talk about a lot on dates, I hate awkward silences :X. It's also good to find out similar interests. Although, I have one memory about this guy who totally spent the whole date like, ragging on my interests and ragging on Harry Potter books and called all the characters dumb lol. Not that I'm a big fan but it was not good lol I have quite a few bad date stories, I wonder if there is a thread to share those in lol
> 
> You're so helpful and informative @*Veggie*


First impression of this pic: It seems like you are a cold person, like an INTJ, there's no warmth there. I even sense a little sadness. 

Before you get up in arms, note I'm just sharing my own impression, which may very well differ from others. I think a warmer picture with a smile might help. A lot of guys are scared of by unfriendly women or women that are perceived as being unfriendly. Also, you have to remember that online, everyone is judged by their picture pretty heavily. You look good and have nice hair and that pic is most likely not the best shot of you. I would try a different photo to see if that improves the odds.


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## Acrylic

Solrac026 said:


> Before you get up in arms, note I'm just sharing my own impression


In my experience, it seems people's impressions go like this... if you're not overjoyed with bouncing off the walls happiness, then you're gloomy and morose lol. I very commonly see people make that kind of comment to pictures.

To me, that looks like a pretty evident 'intellectual grin'. It's that thing where one eyebrow is raised higher than the other, a subtle grin, narrowed eyes as if pondering something analytical... it's that face people make when resting their chin on their hand. I don't see anything anywhere near gloomy there lol. 

Since there's a subtle difference between thoughtful and morose, I think people kind of get lazy and are all too quick to default to morose. Which is probably why we have that whole "you should smile more" meme in society in regards to pictures haha. Because of people being too lazy to distinguish thoughtful from gloomy, due to not being disposed to read more closely into things.

After saying all that, it'd be funny if I was wrong and she was sad lol. But I really don't think this looks like that. Seems like the usual 'refined, cultivated' facial expression to me... but maybe I'm crazy.


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## Solrac026

Despotic Ocelot said:


> In my experience, it seems people's impressions go like this... if you're not overjoyed with bouncing off the walls happiness, then you're gloomy and morose lol. I very commonly see people make that kind of comment to pictures.
> 
> To me, that looks like a pretty evident 'intellectual grin'. It's that thing where one eyebrow is raised higher than the other, a subtle grin, narrowed eyes as if pondering something analytical... it's that face people make when resting their chin on their hand. I don't see anything anywhere near gloomy there lol.
> 
> Since there's a subtle difference between thoughtful and morose, I think people kind of get lazy and are all too quick to default to morose. Which is probably why we have that whole "you should smile more" meme in society in regards to pictures haha. Because of people being too lazy to distinguish thoughtful from gloomy, due to not being disposed to read more closely into things.
> 
> After saying all that, it'd be funny if I was wrong and she was sad lol. But I really don't think this looks like that. Seems like the usual 'refined, cultivated' facial expression to me... but maybe I'm crazy.


What you say could be somewhat true, we do tend to project our feelings onto other people and I have been feeling a bit gloomy as of late. However, it's a little like the mona lisa, there's ambiguity there. There's a difference between "could be" and "definitely is".


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## sinaasappel

Solrac026 said:


> What you say could be somewhat true, we do tend to project our feelings onto other people and I have been feeling a bit gloomy as of late. However, it's a little like the mona lisa, there's ambiguity there. There's a difference between "could be" and "definitely is".




Maybe if we they look through the subspace.........


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## MolaMola

Ok so here is my question dudes and dudettes. If women messaging/approaching men is such a bad strategy, then why have I been more or less successful with it? Not writing this to be snarky, honestly confused. @Veggie ?

Enviado desde mi SM-G920V mediante Tapatalk


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## Sporadic Aura

NewMango said:


> Ok so here is my question dudes and dudettes. If women messaging/approaching men is such a bad strategy, then why have I been more or less successful with it? Not writing this to be snarky, honestly confused. @Veggie ?
> 
> Enviado desde mi SM-G920V mediante Tapatalk


Because it's not a bad strategy, it's a good one.


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## Children Of The Bad Revolution

Despotic Ocelot said:


> In my experience, it seems people's impressions go like this... if you're not overjoyed with bouncing off the walls happiness, then you're gloomy and morose lol. I very commonly see people make that kind of comment to pictures.
> 
> To me, that looks like a pretty evident 'intellectual grin'. It's that thing where one eyebrow is raised higher than the other, a subtle grin, narrowed eyes as if pondering something analytical... it's that face people make when resting their chin on their hand. I don't see anything anywhere near gloomy there lol.
> 
> Since there's a subtle difference between thoughtful and morose, I think people kind of get lazy and are all too quick to default to morose. Which is probably why we have that whole "you should smile more" meme in society in regards to pictures haha. Because of people being too lazy to distinguish thoughtful from gloomy, due to not being disposed to read more closely into things.
> 
> After saying all that, it'd be funny if I was wrong and she was sad lol. But I really don't think this looks like that. Seems like the usual 'refined, cultivated' facial expression to me... but maybe I'm crazy.


Thanks for this


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## Veggie

NewMango said:


> Ok so here is my question dudes and dudettes. If women messaging/approaching men is such a bad strategy, then why have I been more or less successful with it? Not writing this to be snarky, honestly confused. @Veggie ?
> 
> Enviado desde mi SM-G920V mediante Tapatalk


I never said that it was "such a bad strategy" - only that if it isn't working, there are other strategies that do work, and I don't see why committing yourself to a strategy that's been a source of frustration is somehow the obvious answer as to what to do. Because you were pretty much touting it that way. You were also the one to lead with the "other people are giving you bad advice" statements rather than just voice what's worked for you.

I was _also_ confused by how my advice could be "bad" given that I've only been successful with it so far, and that the OP was as well when she employed it.

Maybe you don't want to date guys you see as "really fucking dumb" lol for wondering what an initial message from you might say about you as a part of their personal screening process, or how it might affect attraction and general feels on their end, but I personally agree with you that it's a numbers game for women as well, and I don't necessarily want to inadvertently screen those guys out. I could see where they would be coming from in seeing it as potentially desperate as a first impression. (Not that everyone would, but some might). I think you could probably work around that (if it was worth it to you for whatever reason), but trying to get as full a picture as possible of what someone's perception of you might be is helpful I think in preparing for and working with first impressions. Ballsy is taking it in stride imo.


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## MolaMola

Veggie said:


> I never said that it was "such a bad strategy" - only that if it isn't working, there are other strategies that do work, and I don't see why committing yourself to a strategy that's been a source of frustration is somehow the obvious answer as to what to do. Because you were pretty much touting it that way. You were also the one to lead with the "other people are giving you bad advice" statements rather than just voice what's worked for you.
> 
> I was _also_ confused by how my advice could be "bad" given that I've only been successful with it so far, and that the OP was as well when she employed it.
> 
> Maybe you don't want to date guys you see as "really fucking dumb" lol for wondering what an initial message from you might say about you as a part of their personal screening process, or how it might affect attraction and general feels on their end, but I personally agree with you that it's a numbers game for women as well, and I don't necessarily want to inadvertently screen those guys out. I could see where they would be coming from in seeing it as potentially desperate as a first impression. (Not that everyone would, but some might). I think you could probably work around that (if it was worth it to you for whatever reason), but trying to get as full a picture as possible of what someone's perception of you might be is helpful I think in preparing for and working with first impressions. Ballsy is taking it in stride imo.


Fair enough! i wasnt 
trying to be hostile, i mean, after I read all your posts i actually felt convinced by your strategy. you seem to have put a lot of thought into it. hence my.confusion why i was getting results w the strategy you did not recommend

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## MolaMola

admittedly, i also have a very specific "type" which could factor into it. because i suppose that "type" i go for must not mind being messaged first otherwise my strategy would be ineffective. whereas maybe the type you like, @Veggie, prefers to message you first

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## Veggie

Sporadic Aura said:


> Because it's not a bad strategy, it's a good one.


Maybe if you want to nab a Sporadic, which is pretty obviously COTBR's dream, right? :laughing:


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## MolaMola

Fwiw, my first messages are always quite short. Like.."Hey, how's it going? Cool we both like 'x'"

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## MolaMola

@Veggie I also just noticed youre an infj. I'm an EnFP. I go for introverts. Do you go for extroverts? Perhaps that sums up the difference!

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