# The Man Who Couldn't Compromise



## tangosthenes (Oct 29, 2011)

*0. Is there anything that may affect the way you answer the questions? For example, a stressful time, mental illness, medications, special life circumstances? Other useful information includes sex, age, and current state of mind.* I am 21 and going through an intense period of my life, and thought knowing my personality type could help.
*
1. Click on this link: Look at the random photo for about 30 seconds. Copy and paste it here, and write about your impression of it.*
I can't post pictures, but it was a picture of a styled sportscar in a garage...
This is what I wrote about it:
It is a pretty shallow picture. I don't get anything out of this other than an urge to shake my head and move on. Sorry, I'm not sure what to write about this.
2.* You are with a group of people in a car, heading to a different town to see your favourite band/artist/musician. Suddenly, the car breaks down for an unknown reason in the middle of nowhere. What are your initial thoughts? What are your outward reactions?*
My only initial thought would be to call for help. I don't know how to fix cars.
My outward reaction would be to say Fuck a few dozen times and walk around the car trying to get some nervous energy out and then tell the group I was calling for help, and then do that.
*3. You somehow make it to the concert. The driver wants to go to the afterparty that was announced (and assure you they won't drink so they can drive back later). How do you feel about this party? What do you do? *If it helps, I had assumed I was driving and wrote a whole answer to that before I read the question again. So, I don't want to go to the party, but it looks like I don't have a choice.
*4. On the drive back, your friends are talking. A friend makes a claim that clashes with your current beliefs. What is your inward reaction? What do you outwardly say?*
Probably feel very uncomfortable and like a spotlight is on me. Then I would get really hyped up and nervous and begin by asking him a specific question on the topic, then chase him down the rabbit hole that way. I probably bring the mood of the car to a very intense and uncomfortable place tbh. If they refuse to entertain my thoughts or refuse to admit that I have a point and agree to disagree, I have just lost a friend.
*5. What would you do if you actually saw/experienced something that clashes with your previous beliefs, experiences, and habits?*
I don't know..it's hard to say. Probably just complain, because this kind of thing happens far too often. I would also probably write off the person involved as lacking in some way.
*6. What are some of your most important values? How did you come about determining them? How can they change?*
Well, I'm not sure. I don't really keep a list of my values in my head or anything..I don't even know if I have any values. I guess what repulses me most is when I see people seemingly happy to live in squalor. Maybe ignorance, or just seeing things in a light that indicates a sharp divide with the way I think. I don't like the way people deny their nature, they just betray it in more perverse ways..it's fucked up. Society should listen to me and everything would be better roud:
*7. a) What about your personality most distinguishes you from everyone else? b) If you could change one thing about you personality, what would it be? Why?*
a) I don't like the settled, non-changing, unchallenging way of life that most people have and impose on others. b) I have a hard time navigating the world... I just feel as if I am lost amongst concrete people in a concrete jungle. If you wanted a cliche..
*8. How do you treat hunches or gut feelings? In what situations are they most often triggered?*
Well, I almost always have a quick gut reaction to something. It's kind of a crapshoot whether I trust it or not. They are triggered in emotional and social situations. I get weak gut feelings about things like math..although these feel forced and learned.
*9. a) What activities energize you most? b) What activities drain you most? Why?*
a) I think I like telling people what to do. I never do it because I receive such a negative reaction, though. I also like singing,whistling, expressing myself, if you want another cliche haha.
b) Things that drain me are the "little" things in life. Like filling out paperwork, or having to be fake in social situations.
*10. What do you repress about your outward behavior or internal thought process when around others? Why?*
I hate being open and knowable. I want to be powerful. I want to have things... just work. Life is complicated by idiots. I control myself so that I don't run them over, because I fear being bested. But if I wasn't afraid, I would probably try to get the whole world to bend knee to me. Kind of hypocritical here thought, because I hate when others try to control me. But I am clueless how to stop it.

I know all this sounds a little ridiculous. I could use some help(<-that hurt my pride to say).


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## Loveternity (Aug 3, 2011)

@Delphi, I'm going with ESTJ and type 8w7 if you're interested in the Enneagram as well.

There is some massive Te with some Si to back it up. If I may ask, if a friend of yours was to call you out on your ethics/integrity would you get defensive and blame everyone else? That would confirm inferior Fi.

Any doubts/thoughts about your type?


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

I think you might be an Fe dom or aux user (the former seems more appropriate).


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## Yomotsu Risouka (May 11, 2012)

FacelessBeauty said:


> I think you might be an Fe dom or aux user (the former seems more appropriate).





> I probably bring the mood of the car to a very intense and uncomfortable place tbh. If they refuse to entertain my thoughts or refuse to admit that I have a point and agree to disagree, I have just lost a friend.


Why do you think this is Fe at all?


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## tangosthenes (Oct 29, 2011)

Overflow said:


> , I'm going with ESTJ and type 8w7 if you're interested in the Enneagram as well.
> 
> There is some massive Te with some Si to back it up. If I may ask, if a friend of yours was to call you out on your ethics/integrity would you get defensive and blame everyone else? That would confirm inferior Fi.
> 
> Any doubts/thoughts about your type?


I'm not sure... also I don't know if I am an ESTJ because I don't like people very much, so I am not extroverted. 

I would probably get defensive, but I try to be calm at first. Until they are sort of in my comfort zone and not theirs, and when I am in familiar territory. Conflict can make me go fight or flight depending on whether I know the topic or not.

I am very unhappy with my place in life right now.. that makes me wonder whether I am being combative because of that or not..when I was younger I sort of stored that away because people just ran away and I hated that feeling.

Also, I looked up the description of the ESTJ and I am a little confused about what "concrete" is supposed to mean in respect to myself. 

A few more odds and ends: I hate when people ask obvious questions, such as "Are you going to cook (object that I am cooking.)" It feels like they are baiting me into something.

Also, I don't really empathize with the notion of tradition.. does this apply to the "overall" tradition, or the thing that I think should be tradition? I don't like religion, I think it is part of the problem. I would probably install an atheistic society if I could haha.

I tend to be extremely nervous in social situations..I was diagnosed with Social Anxiety Disorder when I was a teenager.


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

Tenebrae said:


> Why do you think this is Fe at all?


Because he seems to be in tune with the mood of the external environment and as someone with an ESTJ mother and INFP sister, I've seen what inferior Fi and Dominant Fi look like. They would be less inclined to mention or focus on how their attitudes effect the people around them. And he mentions his ideas and thoughts in relation to other people so that's why I would say Fe.

And when he says: 


> Maybe ignorance, or just seeing things in a light that indicates a sharp divide with the way I think. I don't like the way people deny their nature, they just betray it in more perverse ways..it's fucked up. Society should listen to me and everything would be better


This could be Fi but I've noticed how a lot of his focus when it comes to how people think or behave is not internally based, but focused on other people or in relation to other people. The focus seems to be more external rather than internal. I've noticed that with many of the Fi users I've encountered, how people behave isn't the main focus. That is why I think he's an Fe user, and a pretty strong one at that.


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## tangosthenes (Oct 29, 2011)

FacelessBeauty said:


> Because he seems to be in tune with the mood of the external environment and as someone with an ESTJ mother and INFP sister, I've seen what inferior Fi and Dominant Fi look like. They would be less inclined to mention or focus on how their attitudes effect the people around them. And he mentions his ideas and thoughts in relation to other people so that's why I would say Fe.
> 
> And when he says:
> 
> ...


I don't like the whole "Society should listen to me and everything would be better" thing. I don't pretend to think that I'm better in every way than anybody else, just that in general, I have something already in mind and am more confident in my own natural aims than the natural aims of others, who seem to just be plunging headlong through life without giving a thought to what's going on around them.


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## Yomotsu Risouka (May 11, 2012)

@FacelessBeauty: Well, shit. I guess I'm a Fe user after all.

No, but really, social anxiety and misanthropy aren't signs of Fe. That's just silly.


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## Yomotsu Risouka (May 11, 2012)

@Delphi: Could you try another picture? That would be pretty useful here. It helps more in typing than you'd think.


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

Tenebrae said:


> @_FacelessBeauty_: Well, shit. I guess I'm a Fe user after all.
> 
> No, but really, social anxiety and misanthropy aren't signs of Fe. That's just silly.


Lol I know, but that's not where my reasoning for saying he was an Fe user was coming from. It's just that he seems to be very aware of himself in relation to other people, and he just doesn't seem like an Fi user. Maybe my intuition is fucking with me today.


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## tangosthenes (Oct 29, 2011)

Uh, well I can't post it here, but I'll upload it to my avatar lol.


So, first things is the little pebbles that are actually birds. Then the dark patches in the sand look like mini-sinkholes. I find myself drawn to the far horizon of the sea. It's so..dark. Good shit 
It looks like a place on the Mediterranean coast. I really like the layered colors of the clouds. The little wrinkle in the lowerright hand side of the corner makes me want to dig a river delta. I always loved making little rivers at the beach fueled by funnels that would take the water over a hill and down into a little channel going away from the seawater. Besides that, this picture is absolutely beautiful. I could look at it all day.
I also like the sand. There's too much stuff to write!


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## Yomotsu Risouka (May 11, 2012)

FacelessBeauty said:


> Lol I know, but that's not where my reasoning for saying he was an Fe user was coming from. It's just that he seems to be very aware of himself in relation to other people...


That's a symptom of severe social anxiety. Even people who usually aren't concerned about such things become highly aware. If you were being circled by a pack of wolves, wouldn't _you_ watch them for any sign they might attack?


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

Tenebrae said:


> That's a symptom of severe social anxiety. Even people who usually aren't concerned about such things become highly aware. If you were being circled by a pack of wolves, wouldn't _you_ watch them for any sign they might attack?


Hmmm.. Good point. 
I think I would. It's just that he didn't strike me as socially anxious. Now that I think about it, that could be the case.


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## Yomotsu Risouka (May 11, 2012)

Delphi said:


> So, first things is the little pebbles that are actually birds. Then the dark patches in the sand look like mini-sinkholes. I find myself drawn to the far horizon of the sea. It's so..dark. Good shit
> It looks like a place on the Mediterranean coast. I really like the layered colors of the clouds. The little wrinkle in the lowerright hand side of the corner makes me want to dig a river delta. I always loved making little rivers at the beach fueled by funnels that would take the water over a hill and down into a little channel going away from the seawater. Besides that, this picture is absolutely beautiful. I could look at it all day.
> I also like the sand. There's too much stuff to write!


Lots of Fi, plenty of Ne, quite a bit of Si...

Read this: http://personalitycafe.com/myers-briggs-forum/19838-form-inferior-ifp.html

What do you think?


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## tangosthenes (Oct 29, 2011)

Tenebrae said:


> Lots of Fi, plenty of Ne, quite a bit of Si...
> 
> 
> 
> What do you think?


I definitely relate to the criticism of others and the making situations worse with harsh judgements.. I don't really ever recall a time where I didn't behave this way a lot though. Sometimes I feel incompetent. 

Friendly..no, not really. I hate that word, even though if somebody asks for help and don't have a chip on my shoulder at the moment I _will_ bend over backwards to help them. 

I have been extremely nonplussed with the world as I grow older and see it for what it is.. there is no bit of it that is welcoming. It's all just.. people trying to fuck each other over. Modern society a great place to be, yeah, right, people just adapt to their environment and take care of the "frivolities", and go back to whoring and scoring..

Ok, rant ended. But I'm not sure. What I think doesn't really matter, does it? What do _you _think? roud:


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## Yomotsu Risouka (May 11, 2012)

Delphi said:


> What I think doesn't really matter, does it? What do _you _think? roud:


I think you're the one who knows you best, so you're going to have to tell us your impressions before we can be sure, right? :wink:

On that note, please read this: http://personalitycafe.com/enfp-articles/76803-recognizing-inferior-function-enfps.html

What do you think? I just want to know more about you~ :kitteh:


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## tangosthenes (Oct 29, 2011)

Tenebrae said:


> I think you're the one who knows you best, so you're going to have to tell us your impressions before we can be sure, right? :wink:
> 
> On that note, please read this:
> What do you think? I just want to know more about you~ :kitteh:


Yes! Overcommitment. Yes. Trapped. Yes. Obsessed with illness. Yep.

Ah but I'm still not sure. I would say one thing that I definitely notice is my obsession with very small things, that can end up frustrating me for days and make it very hard to get along with anybody. Commitment, try committing to a college major, and thus what the next few years of my life are going to be full of. Sometimes I dream of just saying fuck it and becoming a vagabond. I feel trapped to a major degree.

I relate to this article a lot, though I'm still not sure...
But if this article is correct, what's the different between ENFP or ENTP?


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## Yomotsu Risouka (May 11, 2012)

Delphi said:


> Yes! Overcommitment. Yes. Trapped. Yes. Obsessed with illness. Yep.
> 
> Ah but I'm still not sure. I would say one thing that I definitely notice is my obsession with very small things, that can end up frustrating me for days and make it very hard to get along with anybody. Commitment, try committing to a college major, and thus what the next few years of my life are going to be full of. Sometimes I dream of just saying fuck it and becoming a vagabond. I feel trapped to a major degree.
> 
> ...


Quick, oversimplified version? ENTPs focus mostly on intellectual and business pursuits, hoping to achieve fame and glory. ENFPs want to change society and/or the world because it just isn't good enough.

Congratulations! You're probably a very unhealthy ENFP. Welcome to the club. We get together with cake and pizza every Thursday, so don't miss it!


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## tangosthenes (Oct 29, 2011)

Tenebrae said:


> Quick, oversimplified version? ENTPs focus mostly on intellectual and business pursuits, hoping to achieve fame and glory. ENFPs want to change society and/or the world because it just isn't good enough.
> 
> Congratulations! You're probably a very unhealthy ENFP. Welcome to the club. We get together with cake and pizza every Thursday, so don't miss it!


Can I get the mail order version? Why not drown myself in unhealthy things if am already unhealthy? Sounds like the way to go lol


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## Loveternity (Aug 3, 2011)

@tangosthenes, that is actually smart and the only good reason in favor of duplicate accounts I guess! But yeah, forum rules. =P

So... the Te I've been picking on is tertiary?  Or maybe it wasn't even Te... meh, too sleepy, sorry.

But again, kudos!


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## tangosthenes (Oct 29, 2011)

Overflow said:


> @_tangosthenes_, that is actually smart and the only good reason in favor of duplicate accounts I guess! But yeah, forum rules. =P
> 
> So... the Te I've been picking on is tertiary?  Or maybe it wasn't even Te... meh, too sleepy, sorry.
> 
> But again, kudos!


Yeah I'm not even really sure. I think I'm over-obsessed with MBTI so I challenge my type a lot. 
Most likely I'm an INTP/INFP. Maybe an INTP with strong Fi or an INFP with strong Ti. 

I seem to be really good at situational and strategic logic(or at least thinking I am). 

But I think you were seeing Fi- where I'm just so frustrated with the shit my environment pushes on me, that I push back. Telling people what to do; directing, that kind of feel(bro) is probably due to having my values compromised ten times a day and not knowing any other way to deal with it besides to make others feel stifled like I have. 

Also, the squalor I was referring to was not real, material squalor(should've specified), but the squalor of our culture of ignorance. Maybe just that I feel like I'm trying so hard to keep within society's limits of what is acceptable(out of survival, definitely not preference), and most people just don't give a fuck or they prefer it and it comes naturally. 

I don't think I'm an Ne dom, because I definitely take things way too seriously for that.

So probably more than your cared to know or wanted to read, but those are some thoughts on it.


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## Yomotsu Risouka (May 11, 2012)

tangosthenes said:


> I don't think I'm an Ne dom, because I definitely take things *way too seriously* for that.


Why does your signature mention playful arrogance, then?


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## tangosthenes (Oct 29, 2011)

Yomotsu Risouka said:


> Why does your signature mention playful arrogance, then?


Because sometimes I get tired of myself.


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## Loveternity (Aug 3, 2011)

tangosthenes said:


> Maybe an INTP with strong Fi or an INFP with strong Ti.


I don't think it's possible to develop shadow functions that much, but that's just my opinion. I don't know how much you'd be willing to follow Beebe's model if you believe you could have both of those functions developed.

I don't know if you're using Ti or Fi, all I can tell is that it's a subjective rational function at work, but I can't tell if it's based on your values or logic. You're probably basing it on both though which makes me wonder; could one of them really be inferior instead of tertiary?

In any case, one of them is objective instead of subjective. What are your thoughts of Te vs Fe? Also, I really don't see Ne, at least not in a dominant or auxiliary position. I wouldn't be surprised if you are a Pi-dom actually.

As for Enneagram, I'm going with 1w9 as core with a strong 5w6 fix, in case you're into that. =P


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## Yomotsu Risouka (May 11, 2012)

tangosthenes said:


> Because sometimes I get tired of myself.


...Introverting drains your energy. Gotcha.


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## tangosthenes (Oct 29, 2011)

Overflow said:


> I don't think it's possible to develop shadow functions that much, but that's just my opinion. I don't know how much you'd be willing to follow Beebe's model if you believe you could have both of those functions developed.
> 
> I don't know if you're using Ti or Fi, all I can tell is that it's a subjective rational function at work, but I can't tell if it's based on your values or logic. You're probably basing it on both though which makes me wonder; could one of them really be inferior instead of tertiary?
> 
> ...


I had 5w6 1w9 4w5 before I erased it.

For Te;I can see myself as a Te user, but I still chafe under most authority. I don't like being told what to do, but I like having some loose head planning for most things, just enough of a framework to adapt. I'm often told I'm stubborn and things like that, but I get told that by J's and I think it seems that way because I really just get a thrill from arguing, which I realize isn't "healthy" but it's the only way I can interest people enough in what I have to say sometimes. Most people don't like to dig into the same topics I do.

For Ne; I have a sixth sense of language, at least in my head. I've always been naturally good at picking up vocab, spelling, grammar, and such. I think there's some kind of intuition going on there, because creative and somewhat idiosyncratic wording pops into my head without me asking for it, and I actually have to try to explain it to myself before I think about saying it, because, although it's like 95% exactly what I want to say, most people aren't going to know what the hell I'm talking about, so I have to be prepared to explain it. This could be Ni or Si, too, though, easily.

Fe; I guess I kind of understand how to behave in a social situation, but eh. That's boring. Most people aren't worth my time I guess. They seem stodgy and uninteresting, with nothing I haven't heard or seen before. But even saying that, I know I'm wrong. I care about what people think and expect, but I wish I didn't. I'm poor at understanding how to get people to do what I want them to do through something other than sheer force of personality. Listening to other people's problems is like death, waiting. Guilt tripping is something I would not want to have to do, but can do if neccessary. I like to stay on objective grounds when dealing with people, it just feels cleaner and more honest.

Ti vs Te;Math, I've never really had a sixth sense for, but I haven't shied away from it either. 
Given a moderate amount of time, I can make very good tactical decisions but the givens,requirements, etc. are nice to have. 

Take or leave this, it is poorly illustrated: (In arguments, I tend to argue what I know and count on reductionist questioning to warp my opponent's point to oblivion and impertinence, while resting mine on a nice pedestal. A good example is it's like a game of chicken. The person arguing with me and I are the bases, with me winning because I may be weaker, but I am able to take a pounding and stay winning, hoping that my top half can push the other guy off in time, while the other base is trying to get at me.)


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## tangosthenes (Oct 29, 2011)

Yomotsu Risouka said:


> ...Introverting drains your energy. Gotcha.


You're good.


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## tangosthenes (Oct 29, 2011)

I read the Beebe's model, and only one thing really stuck out: the Demonic personality for IxTPs seemed to match up with what I said here: 
"Maybe just that I feel like I'm trying so hard to keep within society's limits of what is acceptable(out of survival, definitely not preference), and most people just don't give a fuck or they prefer it and it comes naturally."

Regarding the tendency of IxTPs under stress to attack other's moral contentedness and then come off as a hypocrite because of the righteousness of their actions.


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## Loveternity (Aug 3, 2011)

@tangosthenes, I'll make this simple; if you're a Fi-dom, the very concept of Ti will likely confuse you as it confuses me. xD To me, a subjective logical function that doesn't care for objective evidence is simply baffling. It's similar to Fi in the way it works, but the concept of logic to me is only known as what is described as Te; basing logic on external data. I imagine Ti as the bastard child of Fi and Te, there's no other way for me to understand it!

I imagine that if you're a Ti-dom, the concept of subjective moral values that don't have to apply to everyone else would cause you the same sort of confusion.


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## tangosthenes (Oct 29, 2011)

Overflow said:


> @_tangosthenes_, I'll make this simple; if you're a Fi-dom, the very concept of Ti will likely confuse you as it confuses me. xD To me, a subjective logical function that doesn't care for objective evidence is simply baffling. It's similar to Fi in the way it works, but the concept of logic to me is only known as what is described as Te; basing logic on external data. I imagine Ti as the bastard child of Fi and Te, there's no other way for me to understand it!
> 
> I imagine that if you're a Ti-dom, the concept of subjective moral values that don't have to apply to everyone else would cause you the same sort of confusion.


Yeah, how does that work? But thanks, I can tell you want to come to a conclusion lol


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## Wakachi (May 24, 2012)

Maybe it's like Sudoku?

Ti is interested in the rules of the game and the system that collects facts and reorganizes it for something consistent.


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## tangosthenes (Oct 29, 2011)

Wakachi said:


> Maybe it's like Sudoku?
> 
> Ti is interested in the rules of the game and the system that collects facts and reorganizes it for something consistent.


*Here is my understanding of the two thinking functions:*
I think Ti is only interested in the rules of the game; i.e. the principles. The facts come later, if they fit, good, if they don't, then it's time to ruthlessly reduce everything to its parts and try again. Ti tries to see things as tools, things that make the whole come about. As such, Ti is more "sticky," and can't really be separated easily once fit, so it's a bit harder to directly translate into reality. The good is that Ti can see the parts for their relations, the bad is that it is hard to apply or understand if you are not a Ti user. This is where Te's can help Ti's, with the expose of their theories.
Te is more "facts first please". Things don't have to fit into a theory(yuck), and just kind of stand on their own. This is good if you want to see things directly. Any sort of Te theory is like loose string that bonds the facts, thus any reasoning done by Te can be easily cut apart. This has two sides to it. The good side is that Te's reasoning is easily digestible at its face and translatable to similar situations. The bad is that the thinking is more likely to be superficial and inadequate for universal application. If the Te user is interested, Ti can break and mold the Te reasoning into something more universal, which could help the creative application across multiple systems.
Phew...


*And in reply to your post/the thread:*
Oh, no, the question was meant to be rhetorical. I understand Ti but not Fi. I guess my Ti just creates similar conclusions to Fi, that are just not usually recognized as Ti-like conclusions. I have a logic-dar(one that only works with clear givens and not like Ni-Te), but I have always assumed INFPs did too since Fi and Ti are both based on a system of internal structures and I identified with a lot of the things said about INFPs. But I guess xNFPs have more of a ...love,hate-dar. I guess I thought that I was an Fi user because of this line of reasoning: xNFPs must use Fi in a way that tells them that what they like or dislike is more important than anything else. I like and dislike some things very strongly, and would like to see them go away, so I must use Fi as well as Ti. 

I kind of just get Ti, because I do things like critique my logic teacher's logic and didn't give a crap whether he valued what I valued, just that ultimately, he was wrong. While, on the other hand Fi seems a little mysterious, but something I want to understand. I took the whole dominant function thing as saying that "You can't notice yourself in a description of the dominant function." Well maybe I don't, but I don't see Fi, and I do see Ti. And the two, according to theory(which can be changed if necessary, was my reasoning) cannot be in the same stack.

I guess I really don't understand Fi then. It's kind of thrown a wrench in the works of my understanding of the cognitive functions.


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## Wakachi (May 24, 2012)

Well, FI pertains to what it means to live harmoniously. It's a sudoku that checks if the environment is the "right place" to live (customs, objects, values, morality etc) then sees if the numbers fit or how to fit it in.

(I'm just sounding this out to see if I can put Fi/Ti on the same plane because compared to Te/Fe which is an object based judgement, Fi/Ti is a structure based judgement)


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## tangosthenes (Oct 29, 2011)

Wakachi said:


> Well, FI pertains to what it means to live harmoniously. It's a sudoku that checks if the environment is the "right place" to live (customs, objects, values, morality etc) then sees if the numbers fit or how to fit it in.
> 
> (I'm just sounding this out to see if I can put Fi/Ti on the same plane because compared to Te/Fe which is an object based judgement, Fi/Ti is a structure based judgement)


Is that really specific to Fi, because I usually get a like/dislike impression of places that impacts whether I go there again. Maybe the same thing? Maybe not. Harmony... A loose sort of feeling you get when the situation has a positive inertia to them? If not that then, I don't feel harmony.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

I'd probably go with an ENFP with too much reliance on Te and ignoring Fi.

Here is why I believe this...



> I hate being open and knowable. I want to be powerful. I want to have things... just work. Life is complicated by idiots. I control myself so that I don't run them over, because I fear being bested. But if I wasn't afraid, I would probably try to get the whole world to bend knee to me. Kind of hypocritical here thought, because I hate when others try to control me.


Ne dreams are filled with a weak Fi, an immature Te wishes for unlimited power to satisfy a Fi in hiding.



> My only initial thought would be to call for help. I don't know how to fix cars.
> My outward reaction would be to say Fuck a few dozen times and walk around the car trying to get some nervous energy out and then tell the group I was calling for help, and then do that.


Signs of an Ne-Te loop. Everything have to do with dealing with the object.



> If it helps, I had assumed I was driving and wrote a whole answer to that before I read the question again. So, I don't want to go to the party, but it looks like I don't have a choice.


External circumstances rule. Fi is weak.



> Probably feel very uncomfortable and like a spotlight is on me. Then I would get really hyped up and nervous and begin by asking him a specific question on the topic, then chase him down the rabbit hole that way. I probably bring the mood of the car to a very intense and uncomfortable place tbh. If they refuse to entertain my thoughts or refuse to admit that I have a point and agree to disagree, I have just lost a friend.


Everything is about me. The object and I are one. 
A different opinion is an attack on me and must be delt with.



> I don't know..it's hard to say. Probably just complain, because this kind of thing happens far too often. I would also probably write off the person involved as lacking in some way.


Imature Fi.



> Well, I'm not sure. I don't really keep a list of my values in my head or anything..I don't even know if I have any values. I guess what repulses me most is when I see people seemingly happy to live in squalor. Maybe ignorance, or just seeing things in a light that indicates a sharp divide with the way I think. I don't like the way people deny their nature, they just betray it in more perverse ways..it's fucked up. Society should listen to me and everything would be better


I don't like other people being okay since I've lost contact with my Fi.
I don't like seeing other people repressing their Fi cause it reminds me of my own state.
Immature Te has to take up Fi lack of awareness and dreams up a world of total control.

It seems to me that this is a Ne-Te loop. (ENFP)
I can't be sure if it is actually a Te-Ne loop. (ESTJ)

However what seem to be lacking is Fi not Si so I say ENFP.


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## tangosthenes (Oct 29, 2011)

hornet said:


> I'd probably go with an ENFP with too much reliance on Te and ignoring Fi.
> 
> Here is why I believe this...
> 
> ...


Hi, thanks for the look over of this. Very interesting. Do you have any advice for this problem? Any theory on kind of reactivating Fi? I'm not sure I could identify Fi in myself... also if this changes anything in your assessment, I was very stressed out and am having to deal with a less than ideal living situation right now where I am forced to submit to my parent's preferences after living on my own for a good length of time. I got very used to it and didn't think about adapting to the new situation because it's for a short time, but my parents got pissed that I wasn't following their rules to the T. I have no problem with it, but the way they went about it was... demeaning.


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## tangosthenes (Oct 29, 2011)

@hornet @Wakachi
So, this semester for school I chose between an Intro to Philosophy and an Intro to Ethics class. Intro to Ethics seemed unattractive, because it seems pretty dumb to study something that's not going to change what people end up doing. They are going to serve their best interest, so why study the difference between Consequentialism and Categorical thinking if they can be better explained by psychology and empirical thinking? Intro to Philosophy was way more appealing because I figured at best, I could get a good skim over of the basic principles of different philosophers and critique them based on logic, and find the one that makes the most sense so I can have something to occupy my brainspace and obsess over much as I do MBTI today. 

So, are there any functions apparent in this choice? I wanted to bring this up because it seemed like a good way to pick out whether I was Fi-Te or Ti-Fe.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

@tangosthenes



> So, are there any functions apparent in this choice? I wanted to bring this up because it seemed like a good way to pick out whether I was Fi-Te or Ti-Fe.


It seems like a Te based choice to me.



> Do you have any advice for this problem? Any theory on kind of reactivating Fi?


Fi is a subjective way of looking at your values. You use it when you figure out what is important to you.
"I like Hamburger, but despise Hotdogs and that is final." is a Fi statement.
It can be compared to setting boundaries. In Fe you intead merge with the group and adopt their standards
regardless how you feel about it. It is more complex than that though cause we don't live in a vacuum.

To strenghten Fi, the best way is to become more aware of what you want and like. 
Then you can communicate this to others.
It is not 
"I like hotdogs!" (so you should too)
That would be Fe.
It is "I like hotdogs!" (And I don't care what you think)

When you have to compromise and not do what you want, Fi feels presured.

Now as I said this isn't a vacuum.
Since we all have different drives/motivators/focuses it then depends on how the attitude of Fi stacks up
among these conflicting forces both within and without.
MBTI or Jungian cognitive functions are a framework to asses how different individuals end up balancing
these forces in their pshychological makeup.

According to this each individual have access to 4 functions conciously and 4 functions are locked away unconciously.
If the balance is upset, by getting to focused on forces outside you, like what is empirically observable.
That wold be Te. Te is all about what you can prove/repeat and how to achieve results externally.
It is paired up with Fi intenally. Using Te leads to neglect of Fi and vice versa.
You can't pay attention to what you want inside and what you want outside, at the same time.

Idealy an individual would timeshare among these two.
Now I said that you where probably an ENFP.
That means that your balance of these forces idealy would be

1. Ne (Extroverted Intuition)
2. Fi (Introverted feeling)
3. Te (Extroverted thinking)
4. Si (Introverted sensing)

This simply mean that for an ENFP Ne is in charge.
Ne looks outside for new ideas, and new content to import.
Now ideally after you have observed the world and found all these new concepts and ideas,
you should go inside and ask. How does these concepts and ideas relate to me?
What are important and not important from my point of view?
Having estabished that you can go back into Ne and observe more or go into Te 
and take action in your environment based on the information gathered and 
what you think about it's merits for you.

Now we can't rule out that you are an ESTJ.
That would give you this order instead.

1. Te
2. Si
3. Ne
4. Fi

That is a different problem altogether and involves you having to examine your concrete environment more closely.

Hope I made myself somewhat clear.


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## tangosthenes (Oct 29, 2011)

Shit, I don't know. It's really hard for me to look at myself and categorize my pieces. I usually just live and don't think about myself, but trying to see whether I have Ti or Fi in this or that piece of mostly unconscious thinking is deserving of a quick meeting with a brick wall at this point.

Rather, most of my thinking is about why things are done the way they are in the real world, and whether they are congruent with my conclusions of human nature, in order to identify in what areas change is possible and/or probable. But it's not like I have some mental checklist I use to keep track of all this stuff. Rather, it gets integrated with who I am, and I literally change my fundamental opinions based on this analysis.

Compare this to writing an essay. Are you well-read? Then you'll probably be a great writer because you've internalized what impression the article, book, etc. had on you. So you are naturally versed in a wide range of situations and can pull out whatever relevant fact there is at any point.

I guess I'm worried about being an F, because I place way too much stock in MBTI's effect on who I am and my major is analysis-oriented rather than directly working with people. Even if it is something that can improve people's lives.

Oh, yeah, sorry. ^ That was probably my Ne with all the tangents at light speed. But at least I know I'm an NP. Are ENTPs good at decisions? or ENFPs? lol. That would probably help.


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## Wakachi (May 24, 2012)

@tangosthenes

Well you can be stereotypical and say ENFP/ENTP suck at making decisions because they can't settle on anything.
You can also say ENFJ/ENTJ suck at making decisions because they settle for stupid ones.

Decision making skills and goal setting may have some MBTI corelations but at the end everyone has to learn it; the ones who are good at are probably at something thing else.


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