# NT Romance



## Pianoasis (Nov 10, 2011)

How do we NTs handle romance? Does it take us a while to succumb to our romantic feelings, do we ride on the whim of them, or do we even adhere to them at all? 

I have my own presumptions but I'm open to the results. If you want to elaborate your answer or suggest a fifth option, do so below.


----------



## Pinina (Jan 6, 2015)

I think, and based on what.I've observed, that there's a big difference between the NTJs and NTPs. What makes youbthink it'd be the same for all NTs?


----------



## BillionaireENTJ (Dec 31, 2014)

As a xNTJ, I am confused by the whole romance thing. I can never tell whether a girl is flirting with me or just being nice. I obsess over useless minor details and stress myself out. I have a hard time figuring out how a girl truly feels about me. I ponder about the girl's behavior and always end in going in circles leading to confusion. However, I excel at short-term casual flings...if that counts as "romance". I doubt it does, since things never get "serious" between a female and I. You could say I'm apart of this generation's "hook up culture" & perhaps that's the reason why I have trouble understanding long term relationships.


----------



## Pianoasis (Nov 10, 2011)

Pinina said:


> I think, and based on what.I've observed, that there's a big difference between the NTJs and NTPs. What makes youbthink it'd be the same for all NTs?


I had the same idea but I wanted a larger demographic and I also didn't want to make multiple threads or duplicate choices. I feel like if there is a difference then it could be made clear in the replies.


----------



## RantnRave (May 1, 2015)

BillionaireENTJ said:


> As a xNTJ, I am confused by the whole romance thing. I can never tell whether a girl is flirting with me or just being nice. I obsess over useless minor details and stress myself out. I have a hard time figuring out how a girl truly feels about me. I ponder about the girl's behavior and always end in going in circles leading to confusion. However, I excel at short-term casual flings...if that counts as "romance". I doubt it does, since things never get "serious" between a female and I. You could say I'm apart of this generation's "hook up culture" & perhaps that's the reason why I have trouble understanding long term relationships.


My rule on this: If you're into her, it's flirting. If she fugly, then she's just being nice.


----------



## maust (Jul 14, 2014)

RantnRave said:


> My rule on this: If you're into her, it's flirting. If she fugly, then she's just being nice.


what 

I once spent two years being mean to a guy because he liked me and I was in love with him but I thought he was stupid. Probably the worst thing I've ever done to another human being. Every time he came up to try to talk to me, I'd tell him he was an idiot or annoying. 

I went to a summer program with seven guys a few years back, and depending on who you ask, either two or four of them ended up wanting to date me by the end of a week. I just pretended I didn't notice, even though I could kinda tell before they straight-up said it. I can usually tell because I'm pretty decent at reading people, but I don't like making those assumptions until I'm flat-out told. 

I don't form romantic attachments very easily, and when I do, they're usually to oblivious nerds. Yes, read that as INTPs. I haven't been interested in a guy who wasn't an INTP for _over three years_, it's _awful_. I really should just find a nice ISFJ and call it quits. I keep mistyping them as INTJs and not realizing until it's too late for my soulllllll. 

I'm romantic as_ fuck_. :tongue: I usually fight the feelings for a few months then give up and enjoy the ride. That's something I've learned, not something I used to do- gotta say, it's much more enjoyable this way. Once I'm in, I'm all in. I've learned how to leave when I don't feel like I'm being respected, but that's something that took a while. I'm more the type to adjust and change my behavior because I want the other person to be happy than to throw a fit and leave.


----------



## chanteuse (May 30, 2014)

Half of the time I fought.

The other half I was in a state of controlled chaos.

The worst part is the tendency to paint a future in my head, all prematurely and without support evidence. 

I was more devastated at my dreams being crushed than not catching the guy or the demise of the relationship.


----------



## muslamicinfidel (Aug 2, 2015)

It's like this feeling comes from nowhere and bubbles up inside me. 

I notice it but it confuses me. I like it and don't like it at the same time.

I try to dissect it to understand what it is and I come to the realisation that it's my emotions doing funny things. 

I switch it off in the hope it will go away. Sometimes it bubbles out of control, seeps out of me. I become really childlike and playful but then I get embarrassed and have to curtail it.

My emotions are like a flood gate, it is either open or closed, there is no midway - because of that i prefer to keep my gate closed...even when in relationships. I tend to mirror emotions rather than expressing my own, I've become quite adept at this over the years. It allows me to have intimacy whilst at the same time protect myself from any unforeseen eventualities.


----------



## Crimplene for men (Nov 6, 2014)

Embarrassingly rubbish at romance. Must try harder.


----------



## VinnieBob (Mar 24, 2014)

never understood it
never practiced it
could explain why i suck at dating


----------



## SoulScream (Sep 17, 2012)

Me and romance:









NT chicks are cool though. They can understand my icky behavior with feelings being quite similar in that regard.


----------



## Alpha_Orionis (Jan 18, 2015)

I do not handle romance. I can not understand it. When i like someone i do not know what to do, or how to do it. So most of the time i just try to be direct, which did not work out very well for me. I can not distuingish if someone likes me or is just being nice, or messing with me. I would like if those people would just be direct with me.


----------



## Hidden from Sight (Jan 3, 2014)

I haven't figured romance out yet, nor do I have expectations to ever figure it out.


----------



## Bugs (May 13, 2014)

I'm fine with romance. It's not a mystery to me and can be quite invigorating. I think the NTstereotype being completely inept at romance is way overstated. My caveat is I try avoid blind romance which is fickle and fleeeting. Actually it's just a lust exhibition. Deeper romance has to be rational to me and I should be able to give good reasons why I'm romantic with a girl. It can also be very fun and doesn't always have to be intense.


----------



## sinaasappel (Jul 22, 2015)

I'm the one who avoids my crushes
Noone seems to know that
If I'm talking to a guy a lot and gigleing its probably casual
If you can get me speechless its probably a crush


----------



## sinaasappel (Jul 22, 2015)

SoulScream said:


> Me and romance:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I love that gif :laughing:


----------



## Dasein (Jun 11, 2015)

maust said:


> Yes, read that as INTPs. I haven't been interested in a guy who wasn't an INTP for _over three years_, it's _awful_.





@[email protected] said:


> If you can get me speechless its probably a crush



Note to self: 
* *





(1) INTPs possibly irresistible
(2) speechless is a good sign.


----------



## QrivaN (Aug 3, 2012)

Most times, I can tell when I have something akin to a crush on someone, but I ignore it, because I don't like to involve myself too deeply with other people in general. I wait for the feelings to go away, which they usually do rather quickly (by my assumption of what would be standard, anyways). If they last to the point that it's actually bothering me, I speak up. What happens after that is up to the recipient.


----------



## indoor_kat (Jul 20, 2015)

I feel attraction frequently, but it usually never goes further than that. I've had maybe 2-3 crushes throughout my entire lifespan of twenty-three years. Mainly because I do not attach to other easily and there are few who can catch my attention beyond a fleeting, "Ooh he looks yummy." On the rare occasion that I actually do catch the feels, _boy_ is it obvious.


----------



## ChkChkBoom (Nov 10, 2013)

I can have strong romantic feelings, yet don't know wtf to do with them other than to state my interest overtly (probably to test how it's received) or ignore it. I flirted fine with those who did not actually interest me, but guys who did? I avoided. Is romance elusive to me? Yes. Do I dislike it? No. 

My past relationships were more out of curiosity than a deep feeling but who I decided to marry was very well thought out. Love was part of the reason but it did not seal the deal. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dasein (Jun 11, 2015)

How do you feel about intimate relationships (I'll avoid the term romantic here) developing from friendships? Do you feel most (or even all) of your intimate relationships are focused from the beginning or have you had relationships that develop from a friendship? If not, do you see it possible to develop intimate relationships from a friendship?


----------



## muslamicinfidel (Aug 2, 2015)

INTonyP said:


> How do you feel about intimate relationships (I'll avoid the term romantic here) developing from friendships? Do you feel most (or even all) of your intimate relationships are focused from the beginning or have you had relationships that develop from a friendship? If not, do you see it possible to develop intimate relationships from a friendship?


I try to stay friends. They try to be more. I tell them it's a bad idea. They tell me it's a good idea. I try to convince them it'll never work. They convince me it will. I prove them wrong. They prove me right.


----------



## peter pettishrooms (Apr 20, 2015)

I ignore my crushes if I'm not sure that they like me. And usually they never tell me straight-up. As you can imagine, it's frustrating and the most I can do is find ways to convince myself that they're not good for me so I can get over them. I'm still trying to get over this much older INTP. But it's difficult when he has fit the criteria of what I would want in a partner. I sometimes wish I didn't have crushes because they distract me from actually getting important things done.


----------



## Dasein (Jun 11, 2015)

I can understand the feeling of a crush making one unproductive and wanting to avoid it. I am often ambivalent towards flirtations focused at me by women in general (usually S types), especially in the workplace. I will sometimes react in friendly joking way if I want her to know that I see her flirt, but I'm not taking it seriously.

In my youth as an awkward INTP, I didn't naturally have the instinct to know how to flirt with women. I still don't. It felt awkward to me and in my youth, I would usually attempt to communicate directly with them. This was often apparently not what they wanted (the direct verbal approach) and would often be met with disastrous results, because I usually don't get to the point of taking action until I've developed a friendship with them and found I was overwhelmingly attracted to them. This made me very "gun shy" in my youth.

Later, as an adult, I would resort to writing something to express myself or my best results where to give them a suggestive card. Once it was a somewhat naughty valentines card. They were the kinds of cards that I would expect either to be slapped or it would get things rolling. I've only done this a few times, but I haven't been slapped yet. It worked in my favor once with a woman at work, whom I had an enormous attraction to. I was extremely nervous and really thought I might get slapped the next time I saw her after her getting my card, but I was met with a warm and wry smile.

In another situation (at the same workplace) there was a woman who was aggressive in nature and would flirt with me on and off as the opportunity arose. This went on for more than five years, and although I was never really attracted to her, I understood her humor and I never took her seriously. After about five years, I took a promotion and would be moving away. This woman also lived in the same apartment complex that I did. Before I left, she actually got aggressive, cornered me and jumped me. I look back and laugh about the situation now, but had to calmly talk her down from the situation at the time.


----------



## vesper007 (Aug 11, 2015)

I've had frighteningly strong feelings for another person perhaps twice in my life. Like earth-shaking, make-you-believe-in-God type of feelings. Both times it ended poorly and the object of my affection was not a good match. 

The first time, the guy was one of those guys who liked to woo a girl in a traditionally romantic sense and I got caught up in the whole "romance of romance". This was on the heels of ending an LTR with an XNTJ whose presence was never doubted but who never really unlocked my "feels" and made me feel adored. When I suddenly felt adored, those feels just poured out and I didn't recognize myself. 

The second time was a guy who just understood me and vice versa, inside and out, and made me feel recognized, like there was another one like me in the world. Kind of like when you're in a land of people who don't speak your language and you suddenly meet someone who's also a native speaker of your language. 

Neither ended well. It's not that I don't trust feelings, but intense feelings can be like a drug. You're not yourself, you're not in a position to assess the situation objectively, and you end up making bad decisions.


----------



## Easy (Jun 13, 2014)

*INTJ: *Approach with caution and Do Not Touch. 

*ENTJ Romance in the mind*: ♥_Watching the sunset from our penthouse suite, followed by private fireworks and a thousand hand-fold origami roses... sweet, giggly whispers in front of a roaring fire place_♥
*ENTJ Romance in reality: * I would love to, but I don't have any time to spare.

*INTP*: Does not compute. It's nice, I guess.

*ENTP*: (I don't know...)


----------



## Schema B (Aug 9, 2015)

vesper007 said:


> Neither ended well. It's not that I don't trust feelings, but intense feelings can be like a drug. You're not yourself, you're not in a position to assess the situation objectively, and you end up making bad decisions.


I had similar experiences in the past, where one didn't end well and the other just... ended. Not by any choice of ours but by circumstance. 

Case 1 - Honestly wonderful. An unspoken true companionship and understanding that ended through circumstances beyond either's control. 

Case 2 - A poor assessment of another person that was drugged by feelings. Mostly naive youthfulness. ("Oh, the emotions, magic, it's lovely.") Never trust charm. Just a shitty match all-around. 

With my husband, it was learning to balance the feelings with intelligent comprehension of all the dynamics at play in our relationship. CAN this work? Do we WANT this to work? What are we willing to do to MAKE this work? He's even more emotionally unintelligent than me, so it became about moving beyond the burst of feelings and into the realm of good communication and perseverance. Romance can draw two people together, but it isn't glue. It clouds perspective quickly. That said, I don't think every romantic (or not) human connection is a waste, even when it crashes and burns. The two experiences above taught me what I needed to know, preparing me for the hard work of maintaining a marriage and loving each other through our biggest failures. Obstacles show up, you get through them together.


----------



## vesper007 (Aug 11, 2015)

CroolUniqorn said:


> With my husband, it was learning to balance the feelings with intelligent comprehension of all the dynamics at play in our relationship. CAN this work? Do we WANT this to work? What are we willing to do to MAKE this work? He's even more emotionally unintelligent than me, so it became about moving beyond the burst of feelings and into the realm of good communication and perseverance.


How do you make something work with a guy that is even more "emotionally unintelligent" than you? And in what way is he emotionally unintelligent? Was it an issue of him not expressing his emotions enough to give you the validation in the relationship that you needed? Was he insensitive? How did you two work around this?

I tend to attract a lot of NTs who can be emotional dunces even if they're genius-level in other aspects of their lives. They tend to be fantastic relationships on the shared values/interests/intellect sense, but the romance/emotional aspects have been so dead at times that I've questioned the extent of their romantic feelings toward me. And all of these relationships have ended with me running into the arms of some Feeler who says all the right things and makes me feel adored, but when you pull back the curtain there's nothing really there to sustain something long-term. 

So I'm wondering how some people have succeeded in working past their partner's emotional unintelligence to get their emotional needs met (and we all have them) enough to make something work.


----------



## Schema B (Aug 9, 2015)

vesper007 said:


> How do you make something work with a guy that is even more "emotionally unintelligent" than you? And in what way is he emotionally unintelligent? Was it an issue of him not expressing his emotions enough to give you the validation in the relationship that you needed? Was he insensitive? How did you two work around this?
> 
> I tend to attract a lot of NTs who can be emotional dunces even if they're genius-level in other aspects of their lives. They tend to be fantastic relationships on the shared values/interests/intellect sense, but the romance/emotional aspects have been so dead at times that I've questioned the extent of their romantic feelings toward me. And all of these relationships have ended with me running into the arms of some Feeler who says all the right things and makes me feel adored, but when you pull back the curtain there's nothing really there to sustain something long-term.
> 
> So I'm wondering how some people have succeeded in working past their partner's emotional unintelligence to get their emotional needs met (and we all have them) enough to make something work.


And this is where I say I think marriage is beautiful _because_ marriage endeavors toward satisfying something beyond the self. 

You take the F-type, and more often than not, you end up with vapidity. Feelings reach their inevitable zenith and then fall to a disappointing plateau. There's little in the way of common interests or intellect serve as a foundation. 

You get the T, and more often than not, you end up at an emotional impasse. The rich inner life of the other seems (is?) inaccessible and really lackluster. 

So you must decide, then, what role marriage plays in your personal value system. Frankly, I find the whole institution meaningless outside the Christian worldview, in which marriage is designated as the unique relationship that reflects the greater relationship between Christ and the church. If I were not a Christian, I would not have gotten married. I could have obtained emotional fixes through a series of short-term relationships that eventually fizzled out, sexual satisfaction from the same, and found plenty of intellectual stimulation in academia and career. And yet, I think it would have left me feeling broken, dysfunctional, confused, and ontologically perplexed. 

My husband and I don't provide for all of each other's emotional and intellectual needs. But the basis of understanding is that while we work through our conflicts, we don't expect the other to be the ultimate source of those very human needs. We love each other in that we offer each other grace, forgiveness, compassion and unwavering commitment -- all of which are the reflections that point to those same ideas in our faith. 

Any answer less than this would have been intellectually dishonest on my part. Not evangelism, just perspective.

Edit: I recognize you didn't speak to marriage, but "making it work" - in which case there is that nice squishy in-between zone called life partner, where marriage is or is not discussed but the relationship endures. I imagine in that case it takes just as much hard work, forgiveness, and reasonable expectations.


----------



## vesper007 (Aug 11, 2015)

CroolUniqorn said:


> And this is where I say I think marriage is beautiful _because_ marriage endeavors toward satisfying something beyond the self.
> 
> You take the F-type, and more often than not, you end up with vapidity. Feelings reach their inevitable zenith and then fall to a disappointing plateau. There's little in the way of common interests or intellect serve as a foundation.
> 
> ...


I really liked this post. Thank you. I'm a cultural Christian (have been called "WASPy" by more than a few folks) but am not terribly religious. As far as social institutions go, I think that marriage, even outside of a religious sense, has value. 

I'd like to get married and I do think that being married to one person over the course of one's life means something much greater than just having a series of shorter-term relationships, or one long-term relationship with a partner to whom you're not officially/legally married. It's probably the only social institution that I don't really question. 

So basically you're saying that you don't look to your husband as the one person to provide for all of your intellectual and emotional needs. What do you get out of marriage then? I completely understand that F, by itself, can be vapid and fleeting and T, by itself, can be emotionally dead and ultimately lonely. 

I guess I'm just trying to wrap my head around a relationship where the other person isn't at least the primary source (if not the exclusive source) of emotional validation for the other. I can understand getting intellectual validation from outside sources, but there's an emotional component to a relationship that cannot be ignored, no?


----------



## Schema B (Aug 9, 2015)

@vesper007 I'm going to beware the thread hijack and respond in a PM in a while if that's okay. I think this discussion is interesting and valuable, but will stray too far from the main topic if we delve much further.


----------



## vesper007 (Aug 11, 2015)

[MENTION=74825]Croolunicorn Sure, no worries. I'm still wrapping my head around the policies on threads that get gradually off topic and what "off topic" actually means.


----------



## marybluesky (Apr 23, 2012)

It`s complicated:wink:. I have had very intense romantic fantasies (I still have them every now & then) but I consider them merely fantasies that can`t be brought into real life. When I meet guys in everyday life I can`t have those feelings about them. They are other human beings, usually very different ones (for me, an NT) who can`t understand me, and have standards that don`t match with mine. Though I`m not sure even if I found a really good match I could behave him as romantically as the society expects people. My feelings go toward things other than people, so I guess I never ever be in a romantic relationship in real world  Maybe a relationship based on friendship or sexual interest, but not deep love.


----------



## marybluesky (Apr 23, 2012)

INTonyP said:


> How do you feel about intimate relationships (I'll avoid the term romantic here) developing from friendships? Do you feel most (or even all) of your intimate relationships are focused from the beginning or have you had relationships that develop from a friendship? If not, do you see it possible to develop intimate relationships from a friendship?


Personally I`m not into that, because for me it lacks passion. If he was attractive, he would n`t be just a friend. But some people prefer it because of some degree of guarantied compatibility.


----------



## Massiv0r (Oct 25, 2014)

Women are not actually attracted to men. There is a vague idea of what a man is physically, and some are better than others aesthetically speaking, but the purely physical appearance of a man is almost inconsequential unless he is horribly ugly or outrageously attractive.

Women are attracted to status, money, how much a man smiles and laughs, how many friends and resources a man has, how full a man's life is--how many "cool," "exciting" and prestigious things he is doing or connected to.

They are interested in how other people view him--how many people want to be around him, how other people interact with him and whether their interactions convey that he is special and amazing. They want him to be extremely outgoing and aggressive, they want him to demonstrate his status over other people by dominating them in various non-violent ways.

A woman's attraction to a man is a function of her jealousy at the thought of another woman having that man. She doesn't care who he actually is or EXACTLY what he looks like physically, she only cares about the VALUE of the life he has constructed around himself.

A woman basically is a greedy materialistic prostitute. Although that sounds vulgar, it's true. She trades her physical self to buy into the success a man has created for himself.


----------



## Dasein (Jun 11, 2015)

Massiv0r said:


> Women are not actually attracted to men. There is a vague idea of what a man is physically, and some are better than others aesthetically speaking, but the purely physical appearance of a man is almost inconsequential unless he is horribly ugly or outrageously attractive.
> 
> Women are attracted to status, money, how much a man smiles and laughs, how many friends and resources a man has, how full a man's life is--how many "cool," "exciting" and prestigious things he is doing or connected to.
> 
> ...


Seems like an odd post for this thread. Your not *asking* about women, but *telling them* how they are. Do you hope to attract women this way? Certainly other men would rather hear directly from women about who they are. Who is your audience?


----------



## Massiv0r (Oct 25, 2014)

INTonyP said:


> Seems like an odd post for this thread. Your not *asking* about women, but *telling them* how they are. Do you hope to attract women this way? Certainly other men would rather hear directly from women about who they are. Who is your audience?


Don't say another Goddamn word. Up until now, I've been polite. If you say anything else - word one - I will kill myself. And when my tainted spirit finds its destination, I will topple the master of that dark place. From my black throne, I will lash together a machine of bone and blood, and fueled by my hatred for you this fear engine will bore a hole between this world and that one. When it begins, you will hear the sound of children screaming - as though from a great distance. A smoking orb of nothing will grow above your bed, and from it will emerge a thousand starving crows. As I slip through the widening maw in my new form, you will catch only a glimpse of my radiance before you are incinerated. Then, as tears of bubbling pitch stream down my face, my dark work will begin. I will open one of my six mouths, and I will sing the song that ends the Earth


----------



## Dasein (Jun 11, 2015)

Massiv0r said:


> Don't say another Goddamn word. Up until now, I've been polite. If you say anything else - word one - I will kill myself. And when my tainted spirit finds its destination, I will topple the master of that dark place. From my black throne, I will lash together a machine of bone and blood, and fueled by my hatred for you this fear engine will bore a hole between this world and that one. When it begins, you will hear the sound of children screaming - as though from a great distance. A smoking orb of nothing will grow above your bed, and from it will emerge a thousand starving crows. As I slip through the widening maw in my new form, you will catch only a glimpse of my radiance before you are incinerated. Then, as tears of bubbling pitch stream down my face, my dark work will begin. I will open one of my six mouths, and I will sing the song that ends the Earth


word.


----------



## Massiv0r (Oct 25, 2014)

INTonyP said:


> word.


I need you to do something for me,
I need you to find the nearest Scrabble set, get all the pieces with the letters on them and eat them. Then, find the strongest laxatives you can and consume them. Then when you've shat out a bunch of scrabble letters, inbox me what they say, because they will probably make more sense than anything you will say intentionally, you illiterate son of a bitch.


----------



## Dasein (Jun 11, 2015)

Massiv0r said:


> I need you to do something for me,
> I need you to find the nearest Scrabble set, get all the pieces with the letters on them and eat them. Then, find the strongest laxatives you can and consume them. Then when you've shat out a bunch of scrabble letters, inbox me what they say, because they will probably make more sense than anything you will say intentionally, you illiterate son of a bitch.


Maybe you need to go over to the ESFJ forum and look for abused women. They will be very sympathetic to you.


----------

