# Les Miserables



## unINFalliPle (Jul 8, 2012)

Hi! I watched Les Miserables today. I originally was going to write this in a random, everything can go thread, but I moved it here. There should be a thread about Most recent movie watched and your rantings.. or something like that. 

It was really good. I recommend it. I couldn't watch some parts and I did cry. There was a lot I felt like I couldn't relate to, which is good. At least not to that extent. But I was affected about feelings of love and loss. And I thought of how petty it was for me to. I also felt very privileged watching people at a bad time, eating and relaxing to something that was meant to entertain me. This sounds like I'm mocking them.. What I meant was how I have it so easy and someone else can be starving or going through a rough time elsewhere and how the media was a method of keeping people ignorant. Also, shouldn't it be in French? All the singing and a guy says "Pardon". Dude, you're supposed to be speaking french the whole way through. Not that I had a problem. This is not a deep analysis. At all. Sheesh. 

Also, I love standing up for the little guy. The French Revolution has always interested me. I think it might be my favorite moment in history, at least what I've learned in class. I really want to get into Eastern History. I have a history buff friend and I had an awesome history teacher, and my dad likes history and I sat through some documentaries with him. I once found them boring. But yeah, my likeness to history went up. I dislike war. Obviously. But, even violent themed movies. Sometimes I can't handle it. 

The acting was incredible. The singing too. Really felt it. Normally I'm not crazy about musicals, but it was great.


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## Cheveyo (Nov 19, 2010)




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## Peripatetic (Jul 17, 2012)

The review above was quite enjoyable ^^ Ty for that. Anyways, I shouldn't be posting yet since I haven't seen the movie, but I did read read the book, and I'm not sure I get it. I understand the realists, even the French realists (Flaubert). But the idealists? What's the essence of the Hugo philosophy? Like, you get Rachel maddow if you get far left libs, you get socrates if you get rational vis a vis 'the good', you get Hemingway if you're kinda depressed. So what do I have to "get" to get les miserable?


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## unINFalliPle (Jul 8, 2012)

You'll see what you'll get.  

I'm listening to the soundtrack now. <3


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## Mashidar (Oct 4, 2012)

See I've yet to see this movie, but I did have an ex back in the day that I sat and listened to her recite all of Les Mis over a phone. Back in the day when you had to pay extra for long distance calling.  The relationship ended but I still remember the play to this day.


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## unINFalliPle (Jul 8, 2012)

Mashidar said:


> See I've yet to see this movie, but I did have an ex back in the day that I sat and listened to her recite all of Les Mis over a phone. Back in the day when you had to pay extra for long distance calling.  The relationship ended but I still remember the play to this day.


That sounds nice. =)


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## cocoabean (Jan 2, 2013)

In AP Euro and every other history class I've taken, when France is initially mentioned, it's always about the revolution in the 1790s. I love how Les Mis is about the uprising of 1832, which feels easier to empathize with. Also, because I believe a great deal of the character motives and theme can be applied to humanity in a really timeless sense. And I adore how despite the sincerity of it all, there's the whole Marius/Eponine/Cosette triangle, etc. It shows that life happens, and that can be beautiful and scary. I am a little biased because I love the book and musical like crazy... but honestly I thought it was simply perfect. Am I nerdy? Yeah, probably!


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## Digger Blue (Dec 1, 2010)

I enjoyed the movie. I'd have preferred it not been in Opera format, but I can tolerate that. Watching a scene with three people singing different songs at the same time is a bit much. That is when my mind felt the same as it did half through "Chicken Run." Use of fore shadowing was excellent as well as completing the circle. 
Digger Blue


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## HippoHunter94 (Jan 19, 2012)

Honestly? I really didn't like it very much. The ensemble was, for the most part, very good. One of the best of any 2012 film. Of course, there was Anne Hathaway, who is easily going to win the Oscar for her bit in the film. Completely deserved. It is filled with excellent production design and costumes. It feels faithful to the period. However, it feels... so hard to digest. The direction for this film is so damn awful. Overlapping songs? Russell Crowe's opera singing? The closeups? This film is so poorly paced and horribly claustrophobic that it heavily distracts from the film. If the film has a story to tell, one that is so melodramatic to begin with, direction is key. It feels over-indulgent and makes it impossible to take this seriously. Again, any credit that is to be had goes to the ensemble. They knock it out of the park. Everything around the film is fine, but the way it comes together is uneven and very poor. At the end of the day, it doesn't do the story justice.


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## Digger Blue (Dec 1, 2010)

I think you were on track with many of your comments. A collage of three songs being sung at the same time while there is all kinds of visual action may somehow instill the message into your mind, but it is a bit too difficult to take it in, and I found that a bit repulsive. Less is sometimes more, and this film provided too much in all of the places, period. 
Digger Blue


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

It's pretty good, I mean I liked it...but I liked _Lincoln_ better.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Peripatetic said:


> The review above was quite enjoyable ^^ Ty for that. Anyways, I shouldn't be posting yet since I haven't seen the movie, but I did read read the book, and I'm not sure I get it. I understand the realists, even the French realists (Flaubert). But the idealists? What's the essence of the Hugo philosophy? Like, you get Rachel maddow if you get far left libs, you get socrates if you get rational vis a vis 'the good', you get Hemingway if you're kinda depressed. So what do I have to "get" to get les miserable?


I really need to read Les Mis, the novel, because there were some things I didn't understand about the film. Like the implication is that Jean Val Jean gets what he deserves, and so does his ward, Cosette, supposedly, but what Fantine? Did she really deserve to be a street prostitute who sold her teeth and hair, and then die just for having a child out of wedlock? And what about the daughter of the thieves, Eponine? I mean just because her parents were assholes doesn't mean SHE deserved to be poor and lose the man she loved to Cosette. I think that part made me cry more than anything, the part about Eponine; I mean Marius holds her lovingly as she's dying, but ultimately she sacrifices herself to the cause and dies in his arms, and she spent the last days of her life in poverty and watching him follow Cosette around.

And why does Fantine appear to Jean as he's dying? Are they actually lovers in the novel? To me that seemed like the implication, but they cut it out for the sake of either brevity or rating in the film. And by rating, I mean did they decide that him falling in love with and having an affair with a prostitute would make it no longer a family film? 

Some parts of it seemed morally uneven to me, and the relationship between Fantine and Jean confused me.

EDIT: k...reading the novel may not help me at all, since apparently from notes I just read, Marius and Eponine aren't even well-acquainted in the novel, and in the novel she's depicted as much more emotionally twisted and physically ragged-looking...whereas in the musical they're friends and she's cute though she's poor...the musical seems to differ from the novel in so many ways that it pretty much stands alone as a separate story...

Also just by reading a couple of summaries I have a better grasp of Hugo using women as symbols for higher ideals instead of as well-rounded people; apparently Eponine is supposed to be a symbol of loyalty and virtue, and she and Fantine are symbols of what was wrong or immoral about society at that time, the way street-children and poor women were treated, and Cosette has been criticized largely as being an empty-headed, sexless character, but apparently she's supposed to be a symbol of innocence and hope.


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## INTJellectual (Oct 22, 2011)

@unINFalliPle

I love this thread! Did you read my mind? I was gonna make a thread like this last year (Movies you can't wait to watch) or post in another thread like you said. I loved the trailer. It premieres Dec. 25th in the U.S., and last year after Christmas, I was hoping that I could see this movie in cinemas but I was disappointed. It would show on a later date. *hoping that this month I could be able to watch it in our country*. I haven't watched it yet but I know the story and I know the lyrics of some of the songs . I anticipate that if I watch this, I will sing together with the characters, lol ^_^ And yay! Congratulations to those who are part of this movie! Best Picture, Best Actor and Best Supporting actress! ^_^ I really am a fan of http://personalitycafe.com/book-music-movie-reviews/124370-musicals.html and it being in a movie adds more visual appeal. 6 stars!


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## INTJellectual (Oct 22, 2011)

My favorite characters are Jean Valjean, Fantine, and Eponine. Especially Eponine, the friendzoned girl, and victim of unrequited love like Fantine. Wolverine's acting as Jean Valjean is awesome, I didn't know he could sing, lol.

Those character have intensity and depth in them especially Fantine's. Her song is very touching and moving. I could really feel her misery as well as Eponine's. 

I like History, I like French revolution, and I love every revolution. This nerdy part of me made me want to like History, novels, and musicals.

The songs One Day More and Do You Hear The People Sing are fantastic! Those could also be the theme songs in any war or revolutions in History. I imagine I could lose myself in this movie if I watched it.

Eponine's song "On My Own" is really relatable. And the scene in which she dies in Marius' arms is so moving.

MARIUS
Good God, what are you doing?
'Ponine, have you no fear?
Have you seen my beloved?
Why have you come back here?

EPONINE
Took the letter like you said
I met her father at the door
He said he would give it
I don't think I can stand anymore

MARIUS
Eponine, what's wrong?
There's something wet upon your hair
Eponine, you're hurt
You need some help
Oh, God, it's everywhere!

♫
EPONINE
Don't you fret, M'sieur Marius
I don't feel any pain
A little fall of rain
Can hardly hurt me now
You're here, that's all I need to know
And you will keep me safe
And you will keep me close
And rain will make the flowers grow.

MARIUS
But you will live, 'Ponine - dear God above,
If I could heal your wounds with words of love.

EPONINE
Just hold me now, and let it be.
Shelter me, comfort me

MARIUS
You would live a hundred years
If I could show you how
I won't desert you now...

EPONINE
The rain can't hurt me now
This rain will wash away what's past
And you will keep me safe
And you will keep me close
I'll sleep in your embrace at last.

The rain that brings you here
Is Heaven-blessed!
The skies begin to clear
And I'm at rest
A breath away from where you are
I've come home from so far
So don't you fret, M'sieur Marius

I don't feel any pain
A little fall of rain
Can hardly hurt me now

That's all I need to know
And you will keep me safe
And you will keep me close

MARIUS(in counterpoint)
Hush-a-bye, dear Eponine,
You won't feel any pain
A little fall of rain
Can hardly hurt you now
I'm here

I will stay with you
Till you are sleeping

EPONINE 
And rain...

MARIUS 
And rain... 

EPONINE
Will make the flowers...

MARIUS 
Will make the flowers... grow... 
♫

(She dies. Marius kisses her, then lays her on the ground)


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## INTJellectual (Oct 22, 2011)

fourtines said:


> I really need to read Les Mis, the novel, because there were some things I didn't understand about the film. Like the implication is that Jean Val Jean gets what he deserves, and so does his ward, Cosette, supposedly, but what Fantine? Did she really deserve to be a street prostitute who sold her teeth and hair, and then die just for having a child out of wedlock? And what about the daughter of the thieves, Eponine? I mean just because her parents were assholes doesn't mean SHE deserved to be poor and lose the man she loved to Cosette. I think that part made me cry more than anything, the part about Eponine; I mean Marius holds her lovingly as she's dying, but ultimately she sacrifices herself to the cause and dies in his arms, and she spent the last days of her life in poverty and watching him follow Cosette around.
> 
> And why does Fantine appear to Jean as he's dying? Are they actually lovers in the novel? To me that seemed like the implication, but they cut it out for the sake of either brevity or rating in the film. And by rating, I mean did they decide that him falling in love with and having an affair with a prostitute would make it no longer a family film?
> 
> ...


I haven't read the novel too, only story plots. I used to own casette soundtract of Les Miserables in 90's, and from the songs and a little story background, I could "get" the story.



> Like the implication is that Jean Val Jean gets what he deserves, and so does his ward, Cosette, supposedly, but what Fantine? Did she really deserve to be a street prostitute who sold her teeth and hair, and then die just for having a child out of wedlock?


Fantine is a grisette (a woman of lowly condition in France) I think the author made her character to have an intense and dramatic profile. She only became a prostitute because the foreman fired her (the one who made advances but she ignored). She doesn't deserve this kind of cruelty. Who cares if she has a child out of wedlock. Early 19th Century France is so conservative at that time, and if you are known to have a child and unmarried, you are condemned. She doesn't have anyone to count on to especially for financial resources so she sold her teeth and hair just to have Cosette a nice dress and a medicine. >>>This is another injustice and Thenardiers are to blamed for extorting money on Fantine and making lies. She died because of Tuberculosis from stress and over fatigue from work. Fantine also has a back story. When she was young, she has group of female friends and are there were also 4 rich playboy students who were "playing" with them. The other girls weren't heart-broken, only Fantine who got impregnated then. The lyrics, "He slept a summer by my side, He filled my days with endless wonder, He took my childhood in his stride, But he was gone when autumn came." That song tells about her broken dreams of one day, she would live together with the man she loved.



> And what about the daughter of the thieves, Eponine? I mean just because her parents were assholes doesn't mean SHE deserved to be poor and lose the man she loved to Cosette. I think that part made me cry more than anything, the part about Eponine; I mean Marius holds her lovingly as she's dying, but ultimately she sacrifices herself to the cause and dies in his arms, and she spent the last days of her life in poverty and watching him follow Cosette around.


She started as a mean girl influenced by her parents and they spoiled her while they were still not poor. She also was mean towards young Cosette. But because "karma" she and her family has become poor (Her parents has so many illegitimate, immoral business). As she grows older she's still doing some immoral stuff her parents told her to do so, like sending letters so they could extort money again, until one day while sending letters, he met Marius. As it progresses, she developed some feelings for him (the story from the novel and musical has some alterations though, so let's go with the musical's story) and they become friends or acquaintances (Marius didn't really give a shit to her). Marius has no attraction to her in the first place. Eponine was too ragged, and her actions was not so lady-like, and because they become poor when she has grown up, she loses some beauty, she might otherwise possessed. That era in France is in Depression and it was difficult then to find a decent job. When Eponine and Cosette grew up, their fate has reversed, and Cosette now is in good hands, well-educated, well-fed, well-dressed, everything. Valjean just gave her everything she needs and wants as what he promised to her mother Fantine. And Marius was attracted to her first by her looks, then personality and they just clicked.



> And why does Fantine appear to Jean as he's dying? Are they actually lovers in the novel? To me that seemed like the implication, but they cut it out for the sake of either brevity or rating in the film. And by rating, I mean did they decide that him falling in love with and having an affair with a prostitute would make it no longer a family film? Some parts of it seemed morally uneven to me, and the relationship between Fantine and Jean confused me.


They are not lovers at all. Fantine was once a factory-worker working for Valjean's factory. When Fantine was unjustly fired by her foreman, she became prostitute just to earn some money so she could give it to Cosette. Then one day, a man named Bamatabois wants to have sex with her, and she refuses. The man was furious, and Fantine attacked her. Fantine was arrested because of that. She was again unjustly treated. Bamatabois should have been the one who was arrested. Valjean saw what happened and he interfered with the police. I think Fantine spits at Valjean, then later Valjean found out who she really is. Fantine thought that Valjean was the one who ordered to fire her but actually Valjean knew nothing about Fantine's dismissal at work. Valjean felt sorry and was quite guilty about what happened to Fantine. When Valjean took her to the hospital, he promised to find Cosette and he would treat her as his own daughter and would provide anything she needs and wants. Fantine was hallucinating and thought that Cosette was in the hospital. For some reasons, I like the dying part and the songs associated with it, like A Little Fall of Rain when Eponine died, and Come To Me (Fantine's Death) when Fantine died.

Come To Me (Fantine's Death)


[FANTINE]
Cosette, it's turned so cold
Cosette, it's past your bedtime
You've played the day away
And soon it will be night.

Come to me, Cosette, the light is fading
Don't you see the evening star appearing?
Come to me, and rest against my shoulder
How fast the minutes fly away and every minute colder.

Hurry near, another day is dying
Don't you hear, the winter wind is crying?
There's a darkness which comes without a warning
But I will sing you lullabies and wake you in the morning.

[Valjean enters]

[VALJEAN]
Oh, Fantine, our time is running out
But Fantine, I swear this on my life

[FANTINE]
Look, M'sieur, where all the children play

[VALJEAN]
Be at peace, be at peace evermore.

[FANTINE]
My Cosette...

[VALJEAN]
Shall live in my protection

[FANTINE]
Take her now

[VALJEAN]
Your child will want for nothing

[FANTINE]
Good M'sieur, you come from God in Heaven.

[VALJEAN]
And none shall ever harm Cosette
As long as I am living.

[FANTINE]
Take my hand. The night grows ever colder.

[VALJEAN]
Then I will keep you warm.

[FANTINE]
Take my child. I give her to your keeping.

[VALJEAN]
Take shelter from the storm

[FANTINE]
For God's sake, please stay till I am sleeping
And tell Cosette I love her
And I'll see her when I wake...




Jean Valjean and Eponine are characters who gained redemption by doing good acts and deeds, and by loving. They were once bad and sinners, but they gained their salvation by changing their attitude and by being morally acceptable.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

INTJellectual said:


> I haven't read the novel too, only story plots. I used to own casette soundtract of Les Miserables in 90's, and from the songs and a little story background, I could "get" the story.
> 
> 
> Fantine is a grisette (a woman of lowly condition in France) I think the author made her character to have an intense and dramatic profile. She only became a prostitute because the foreman fired her (the one who made advances but she ignored). She doesn't deserve this kind of cruelty. Who cares if she has a child out of wedlock. Early 19th Century France is so conservative at that time, and if you are known to have a child and unmarried, you are condemned. She doesn't have anyone to count on to especially for financial resources so she sold her teeth and hair just to have Cosette a nice dress and a medicine. >>>This is another injustice and Thenardiers are to blamed for extorting money on Fantine and making lies. She died because of Tuberculosis from stress and over fatigue from work. Fantine also has a back story. When she was young, she has group of female friends and are there were also 4 rich playboy students who were "playing" with them. The other girls weren't heart-broken, only Fantine who got impregnated then. The lyrics, "He slept a summer by my side, He filled my days with endless wonder, He took my childhood in his stride, But he was gone when autumn came." That song tells about her broken dreams of one day, she would live together with the man she loved.
> ...


Hmm okay, thank you for explaining. I think the point that disturbs me, though, is your mention of "karma" and that is what I take offense to...I don't think Fantine got fair karma, she simply was a victim of her times. And so why does a teenaged girl deserve suffering and bad karma for being a spoiled child i.e. Eponine? That doesn't make sense at all. And I don't see where Cosette did anything that was so "good" to deserve karma, all she did was suffer, but she didn't do any good or heroic acts to deserve a better life, she seems like a recipient of grace and the practical cushion of money. 

I also disagree that Cosette and Marius' personalities "just clicked." They were infatuated with one another's physical appearance. Period. It's absurd, that kind of Petrarchian Conceit "love" from old literature, like the desired, unspoiled woman-as-object-from-a-distance.

That's why I find the film/musical of Eponine to be a far more sympathetic character, and of course in the film she is more attractive and likable, so it's rather puzzling in that regard, because they don't really present her as the same character as she is in the book...in the book she sounds much more desperate and downtrodden, a really sad trainwreck of a person, yet at the same time a victim of her circumstances who committed one last unselfish act.

I was just confused on Valjeans exact relationship with Fantine because she seems to be welcoming him into heaven as he dies, and it seems like something a lost lover, dead spouse, or family member would do, but I guess it's because he raised her child.

My favorite scene in the entire movie is when Eponine dies, and that's because there seems to be a moment of sincere love between she and Marius when she dies, like for one moment as she's dying she can be with him, and he says to her:

*But you will live, 'Ponine - dear God above...*
*If I could heal your wounds with words of love...

**You would live*
*A hundred years*
*If I could show you how*
*I won't desert you now...

**Hush-a-bye, dear Eponine*
*You won't feel any pain*
*A little fall of rain*
*Can hardly hurt you now*
*I'm here 
**


*To me that's the romantic moment in the film, I find the baseless infatuation between Cosette and Marius more childish, but everyone has their own idea of what is romantic. Realistically, it isn't romantic to die, but it's nice to be held by the person you love, and they're being sympathetic to you as you die. If she would have lived, it would be worse bc she couldn't be with him, and this way she seemed also to make an act of heroism before she died

But I've come to understand this evening that who Eponine is the film and musical is almost starkly different than who she is the original book.

I also find the subplot about the Revolution interesting, I loved the little boy character who fights with them, and I also liked the subplot between Valjean and Javert.

But I really also don't understand why Javert commits suicide. And I'm one of the people who is contemptuous of the older, bourgeoisie, bland Cosette, though I pity her as a child. As an adult I don't like what she represents, and I find her love story with Marius to be a Petrarchian Conceit, like I said.

Helena Bonham Carter and Sasha Beren Cohen were so hilarious, great as comic relief, I also think a lot of the better scenes had the two of them in it.

So I really did enjoy the film a lot, it's just that I disliked some parts of it just as much as I liked others, like I got the vague feeling I was being preached at some moral code that I didn't agree with, and I'm not talking about the French Revolution or redeeming the poor...that part is totally aligned with my morality, it's just that some of the other stuff seemed uneven to me, but the difference between the novel and the film seems to explain that away, the film wasn't accurately portraying whatever Victor Hugo's full moral message is/was.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

INTJellectual said:


> @_unINFalliPle_
> 
> I love this thread! Did you read my mind? I was gonna make a thread like this last year (Movies you can't wait to watch) or post in another thread like you said. I loved the trailer. It premieres Dec. 25th in the U.S., and last year after Christmas, I was hoping that I could see this movie in cinemas but I was disappointed. It would show on a later date. *hoping that this month I could be able to watch it in our country*. I haven't watched it yet but I know the story and I know the lyrics of some of the songs . I anticipate that if I watch this, I will sing together with the characters, lol ^_^ And yay! Congratulations to those who are part of this movie! Best Picture, Best Actor and Best Supporting actress! ^_^ I really am a fan of http://personalitycafe.com/book-music-movie-reviews/124370-musicals.html and it being in a movie adds more visual appeal. 6 stars!


I'm so sorry. I didn't realize until after I made my last post in response to your response to me that you haven't seen the film yet so weren't talking about the film.


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

I have been a fan of the musical for over 20 years. I've seen various productions around the world and my teenaged daughter's name is Cosette. I've also read the gut wrenching novel by Victor Hugo (and so has my daughter) and seen other movies based on the novel. When we talk of the movie, I'm aware of where the broadway musical left things out from the book and where the movie added them back in.

I will also give disclaimer that I'm a vocal coach by profession. With that said, I must say that the only vocalist in the movie in which I'm satisfied is Enjolras' character. Even Eponine played by Samantha Barks (who does have technique and I usually enjoy) seemed to be directed to tone it down in order compensate for her terrible singing co-stars.

Russell Crowe as Javert- horrible singing AND horrible acting. A waste. Don't get me started.

The movie switched up where Fantine sings "I dreamed a dream" in order to make it more dramatic. In the musical, she usually sings it right after she is fired from the factory and before she becomes a whore. But I do like that the movie added in the teeth removal that the musical took out. However, I remember in the book Fantine sold her _front_ teeth?? That's what made it even more pathetic. 

Anne used a good old tried and true acting technique- If you can't sing it, cry the shit out of it and everyone will think you're amazing. And it worked for her. Hugh Jackman also did this at times, although over all he is a better singer. It just gets hard for me to overlook this gimmick as they are doing as they are doing it, affective as it is. It's like cheating but it cons the audience fabulously. As actors, they actually should be applauded for this. And Anne Hathaway was indeed applauded for this little tactic tonight during the Golden Globes.

In spite of my critiques, I actually loved the movie and saw it twice at the theatre. I've been waiting forever to see it. It was supposed to be released long ago:










Anyway, here is a _very_ excellent blog/review about the movie that, for the most part, I agree with. It's hilarious because it's so true!

Here's How We Felt About Every Song in Les Mis: A Painstaking Breakdown

As far as the story line- no one's plight was supposed to be justified. That's what is so _miserable_ about it. Eponine didn't get what she deserved, neither did Jean Valjean, etc.

Most people who saw the movie probably won't understand Javert's character at all because the acting was so poorly done. I swear- the suicide makes more sense in the staged musical when it's done well. 

Anyway, there are arbitrary rules and then there is the spirit in which these rules were given. That is a huge underlying theme. Also, Hugo wrote the novel after his favorite daughter and son-in-law died in a boating accident. That alone should shed some light on "Bring Him Home" and Jean Valjean's quest.


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

fourtines said:


> I was just confused on Valjeans exact relationship with Fantine because she seems to be welcoming him into heaven as he dies, and it seems like something a lost lover, dead spouse, or family member would do, but I guess it's because he raised her child.


That really pissed me off in the movie version. In the staged musical, it is Eponine and Fantine who usher Jean Valjean into heaven. It's a beautiful harmony that the film took out. Staging it the original way shows that although their earthly life sucked ass, they were actually angels in heaven waiting for Jean Valjean. Like.. even though they were treated as scum of the earth here, they were righteous and true-something Jean Valjean aspired to be. 

However, I do love that the film added Colm Wilkinson as God in the end, because HE IS GOD. Lol (For those who don't know the man who played the Bishop is the original Jean Valjean in the orginal London and Broadway cast and considered by the masses to be the best damn Jean Valjean EVER). 

Also, the original Eponine (Francis Rufelle) also appeared in the movie as one of the whores. "You're no grander than the rest of us".


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## Lawless Land (Jul 10, 2012)

Meh it was good. Thats it. Its not great, the singing gets annoying at times and it feels a little bit to long for me. Maybe I just didn't fully enjoy it because I saw Lincoln the week before and it was just simply amazing and knowing their both nominated for best picture at the Oscars I was expecting more. But its not worth all the hype it was given I think.


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## INTJellectual (Oct 22, 2011)

fourtines said:


> Hmm okay, thank you for explaining. I think the point that disturbs me, though, is your mention of "karma" and that is what I take offense to...I don't think Fantine got fair karma, she simply was a victim of her times. And so why does a teenaged girl deserve suffering and bad karma for being a spoiled child i.e. Eponine? That doesn't make sense at all. And I don't see where Cosette did anything that was so "good" to deserve karma, all she did was suffer, but she didn't do any good or heroic acts to deserve a better life, she seems like a recipient of grace and the practical cushion of money.
> 
> I also disagree that Cosette and Marius' personalities "just clicked." They were infatuated with one another's physical appearance. Period. It's absurd, that kind of Petrarchian Conceit "love" from old literature, like the desired, unspoiled woman-as-object-from-a-distance.
> 
> ...


Fantine is a victim of life's injustice and cruelty, though she hadn't done anything bad to anyone at all. Eponine's parents got their bad karma, and usually if parents get what they deserve, their children also suffer from it, whether they like it or not, and that's what happened to Eponine. I think Eponine's character is interesting, too bad her parents were assholes. I think Cosette deserved what she got when Valjean took him. She spent years of suffering and abuse from Thenardiers from infancy to I think 5 years of age. It's just fair for her to have a good life, and yes she's the recipient of all the love, blessings, and good grace, after all she's the main character right? after Valjean.

Cosette's life as a child is interesting but when she gets older, it loses some 'appeal'. Everything went okay for her and in her relationship with Marius too. No hardships, no conflicts (except the revolution thing that that doesn't have to do with their love).
Cosette is a typical ideal, passive, princess-like, nice, girly girl and any men in that era would fall for her after being attracted first by physical appearance. It's no wonder Marius and Cosette's love worked. I think their love is the only positive thing going on in that movie/book/musical that went on smoothly.

I like Eponine's version more from the musical/movie than in the book. It just highlighted her and her love for Marius. I think my most favorite song from Les Mis is Eponine's "On My Own", and it showcases a lot of her deep love for him. Unrequited love is more empathetic. I think that's the only song that could have a nice version in popular music.

What Fantine feels about Valjean is all just gratitude. She is relieved that her daughter is in good hands and she is forever grateful. They just had limited time to develop romantic feelings, and I can't imagine them falling in love with each other, lol. I don't know exactly about their age gap but I'm guessing 20 years or more. Plus Fantine has lost her beauty because of selling her hair and teeth, and their social status was quite uneven (Valjean being a mayor and her employer, and Fantine just a sort of a miserable person).

Yeah me too. That dying part of Eponine is sooo moving and touching. You would wish somehow that Marius also falls in love with Eponine. Agreed on that, being held by the person you love before you finally die *sighs*. Marius and Cosette's love however is traditional, and normal, nothing exciting, but it is so good for both of them.

The revolution thing is really interesting especially when they sing One Day More. I really wish I see the movie ASAP. Maybe I couldn't help comparing it to the musical after I watched the movie.

About Javert's suicide, I don't know exactly what went on with him and Valjean, but all I know is Valjean saved Javert, and Javert is grateful because of that. But, Javert also couldn't erase the fact that he should arrest him. He is a very dogmatic, puritanical, morally upright, extremely religious person and his conscience says that he should arrest him. He had internal conflicts between his heart and his superego. He was caught between "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" kind of dilemma. He knows he should arrest him, but he also realized how good a man Valjean was. He then confessed it to God, and God should be the judge. And by saving his moral conduct and principle, he chose to kill himself instead. Crazy I know... Like Hara Kiri from Japan. Suicide but with dignity. I like Javert's song "Stars" also.

Those two names you mentioned were Thenardiers right? Yeah I find them also a comic relief especially in their songs "Master Of The House", and "One Day More". I don't know about other things from them. But I really find them repulsive detestable, and spiteful characters.

What important is what we perceived Victor Hugo's message is sending us. I think it would be different among different people who watched or read his novel. That novel, whether portrayed in musical and films, and book, is highly moralistic, and with streak of religiousness in it. And the frequently mentioned God, Heaven, prayers.


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## INTJellectual (Oct 22, 2011)

fourtines said:


> I'm so sorry. I didn't realize until after I made my last post in response to your response to me that you haven't seen the film yet so weren't talking about the film.


It's alright. There's still many similarities. I'm still excited to watch the movie though.


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## ster (Jun 15, 2009)

I've watched only part of the movie, and I'm kind of dying to finish it. I began not knowing anything, and was ready to be disappointed. A day later, viewed scenes were flashing in my mind, I began looking for the music, and now I'm just impressed that this exists. It's so full of feeling and my heart gets lost in it. It was pulled off so well. I've watched Lincoln twice... and although it's great for depicting history, it wasn't required to pull off such authentic and intense emotion. I'm a huge fan of musicals, so the music won it for me. Also, the acting was bursting with expression. Sigh. I'm loving this thread for all the different perspectives, I'd love to understand this story better


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

INTJellectual said:


> It's alright. There's still many similarities. I'm still excited to watch the movie though.


Lol. My daughter Cosette, has just seen the movie for the third time. Why are you waiting? Are you in the states? It's not going to be at the theatre for ever, ya know. :wink:


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## INTJellectual (Oct 22, 2011)

pinkrasputin said:


> Lol. My daughter Cosette, has just seen the movie for the third time. Why are you waiting? Are you in the states? It's not going to be at the theatre for ever, ya know. :wink:


For the third time? Lol. She's a not a fan is she? :kitteh:

I tried to look the cinema last year after Christmas and hoping that the date of premiere is the same as the date of premiere in America, and uh, it was not. I think I might see the movie later this month. I'm in the Philippines btw.

PS: Your daughter's name is cool. When my second baby boy was born I was searching for a name that starts with letter V. But standard name is limited for that letter. Now I remember Valjean, and I could have named him that, had I waited and thought things through.


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## sopranopera (Jul 14, 2012)

Ah. The film is magnificent, beautifully directed (yes, even with the closeups) and most of the cast are great. BUT. Amanda Seyfried was horrendous. And Russell Crowe can't sing! But I'm more annoyed with Amanda because her part is so hard to actually like, and she played the character so bland.


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

sopranopera said:


> Ah. The film is magnificent, beautifully directed (yes, even with the closeups) and most of the cast are great. BUT. Amanda Seyfried was horrendous. And Russell Crowe can't sing! But I'm more annoyed with Amanda because her part is so hard to actually like, and she played the character so bland.


Lol. I so agree with you!!

I now possess the DVD and can watch it at home. It's great. My daughter and I can sing to the movie without disturbing the audience and we can now turn down the parts where Crowe and Seyfried sing. We can just sing over all the bad singing parts. Hahaha.

We still love it. And for Christmas my boyfriend got all of us tickets to see the staged musical again. Lol. I can't wait to see the updates post movie. I wonder if Fantine still sings "I Dreamed a Dream" right after she gets fired and before she becomes a prostitute like it was originally stage.

Yep, we're addicts. This will only be my daughter's second time seeing the staged musical, and I have no idea how many times I've seen it staged. Tis twue!

Terrence Mann was the first Javert I ever saw. There are other really good Javerts that came after, too. 






My point is I'm also used to Javert being portrayed as really sinister. 

I don't why Crowe decided to play Javert as so flat, but then again so was his singing. :tongue: Crowe can't act/can't sing. 


And omg, for those who don't know. Colm Wilkinson who played the The Bishop in the movie, created the role of Jean Valjean. There is just no comparison to him. Just listen to his performace at 1:28. It's great that he played God in the movie because HE IS GOD. LOL.


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## INTJellectual (Oct 22, 2011)

@_pinkrasputin_

I saw the movie last week! And I have never seen people clapping after they watched movie! I've seen two sets of different people clapping after the movie. Because we started first when the movie almost ended.

I really wanted to sing the songs, lol, but my husband keeped on saying "SHHHHHHT..." to me everytime I try to sing, haha.

I agree with you about how Russel Crowe sang Javert's song. It's suppose to have a powerful tone and voice, but Russel Crowe sang it blandly.

I also like this Javert's version of "Stars" from Les Miserables 10th anniversary:






And some songs like "Castle on a Cloud" and "A Little Fall Of Rain" has some cuts. I know it's because to limit the air time. But I wished they've had included the cut parts. Some cut parts are: 

(Castle On A Cloud)
There is a room that's full of toys, There are a hundred boys and girls, Nobody shouts or talks too loud, Not in my castle on a cloud.

(A Little Fall Of Rain)
Marius: You will live a hundred years if I could show you how, I won't desert you now
Eponine: The rain can't hurt me now, This rain will wash away what's past. And you will keep me safe, and you will keep me close. *I'll sleep in your embrace at last!* The rain that brings you here is heaven blessed. The skies begin to clear and I'm at rest. A breath away from where you are, I've come home from so far...

I know some songs have cuts, but Eponine's line shouldn't have been cut! I wish they have shown how Eponine was so happy that she is now in Marius arms at last.

Btw, I liked Enjolras, the way he sings, his overall appearance, his acting, so very manly, and very _leaderly._ I like his blonde curls, lol. I think he's an ENTJ.


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## sopranopera (Jul 14, 2012)

I love Enjolras as well! Aaron Tveit was amazing. I'm pretty sure Enjy is xNTJ, but I've always felt conflicted on whether or not he's an extrovert. He's so leaderly and manly though!


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

INTJellectual said:


> @_pinkrasputin_
> 
> I saw the movie last week! And I have never seen people clapping after they watched movie! I've seen two sets of different people clapping after the movie. Because we started first when the movie almost ended.
> 
> ...





sopranopera said:


> I love Enjolras as well! Aaron Tveit was amazing. I'm pretty sure Enjy is xNTJ, but I've always felt conflicted on whether or not he's an extrovert. He's so leaderly and manly though!


OMG, Enjolras was THE Best!

But I would never say he was an xNTJ. He is way too outwardly passionate. He reminds me of my ENFJ ex husband who was also a student revolutionary in his country and brought his government down. These types are VERY passionate people, not the most logical either. Revolutionaries are some crazy ass mofo's. Remember the sans coulettes during the French revolution? That's why their reign needs to die out before the country can go back to some form of normalcy. I mean, they are necessary for change but a little too crazy to actually implement or lead a new government. Lol. I totally digress...


And yes, there were a zillion cuts, but also many additions. That's all my daughter and I talk about when we watch it at home. We make fun "What's this? Is this new?" LOL. I also HATED that they added speaking parts. That is so NOT Les Miserables to have ANY speaking!


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## sopranopera (Jul 14, 2012)

Hmm... well, in the novel, Enjolras is definitely a thinker. His girlfriend is France and you'd think he doesn't know the existance of women. So xNTx is definitely what he's like in the book.
In the movie, I can see him as ENFJ... though he's less excitable and whimsical than the ENFJs I know, I guess.


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## INTJellectual (Oct 22, 2011)

pinkrasputin said:


> OMG, Enjolras was THE Best!
> 
> But I would never say he was an xNTJ. He is way too outwardly passionate. He reminds me of my ENFJ ex husband who was also a student revolutionary in his country and brought his government down. These types are VERY passionate people, not the most logical either. Revolutionaries are some crazy ass mofo's. Remember the sans coulettes during the French revolution? That's why their reign needs to die out before the country can go back to some form of normalcy. I mean, they are necessary for change but a little too crazy to actually implement or lead a new government. Lol. I totally digress...
> 
> ...


Or maybe Enjolras is an ESTJ. I see him as an action-oriented Te-dom though. He's a package. It would be difficult for him to find a girlfriend if he's fighting for a cause.

As for the speaking parts, I don't mind it though. Sometimes a little bit of speaking can help to have a good flow of the story.

Did the movie won the original song "Suddenly"? It's an addition. I guess they made it so, they have a chance at Best Original Song.

I still don't understand why Javert always hunt for Jean Valjean. Valjean has already got his parole, so why did Javert kept on finding him long after Valjean was freed from jail?


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## INTJellectual (Oct 22, 2011)

sopranopera said:


> Hmm... well, in the novel, Enjolras is definitely a thinker. *His girlfriend is France* and you'd think he doesn't know the existance of women. So xNTx is definitely what he's like in the book.
> In the movie, I can see him as ENFJ... though he's less excitable and whimsical than the ENFJs I know, I guess.


At first I thought if there was a girl really named France, lol. He's too busy to have a girlfriend. But he's quite a hottie.


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## Peripatetic (Jul 17, 2012)

pinkrasputin said:


> And omg, for those who don't know. Colm Wilkinson who played the The Bishop in the movie, created the role of Jean Valjean. There is just no comparison to him. Just listen to his performace at 1:28. It's great that he played God in the movie because HE IS GOD. LOL.


Whoa hey, god you say? Sorry, but no one does Jean like my buddy Alfie. Have you heard is "discovery" story? With the factory or whatever. That has to count for something.




 @_fourtines_

To reiterate, for that era there were two major types of lit, idealist and realist: Hugo v Tolstoy. I get the realist, I didn't get the idealist but kind of do now. I saw the film, and I think I get it... it seems like the answer to the questions might just be, because it hurt [slash] was beautiful. At least that's the heart of it, it's still got an entire body of depth surrounding it.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Peripatetic said:


> Who's hey, god you say? Sorry, but no one does Jean like my buddy Alfie. Have you heard is "discovery" story? With the factory or whatever. That has to count for something.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I prefer the realists like Tolstoy I think.


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

INTJellectual said:


> Did the movie won the original song "Suddenly"? It's an addition. I guess they made it so, they have a chance at Best Original Song.


It was nominated for a Golden Globe but it didn't win. I think the song was lovely, but sort of just "okay".



> I still don't understand why Javert always hunt for Jean Valjean. Valjean has already got his parole, so why did Javert kept on finding him long after Valjean was freed from jail?


Valjean broke his parole. He was supposed to carry around his yellow paper and be branded as a convict for life, making it virtually impossible to get honest employment. So instead, he assumed another identity. 

It's another way in which romanticism bumped up against enlightenment principals and things being "ordered". It was very hard to move up in the world, hence a major reason behind the French Revolution. It's also the reason why Javert is all "Stars....you know your place in the sky....you hold your course and your aim..."


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## Lyndsay (Jan 16, 2013)

I saw it three times, and I'm dying to see it one time more (get it?) before it leaves the theater. 

I'm obsessed with Helena Bonham Carter, which was my main reason for going. BUT I read the entire unabridged version (the brick... dun dun dun) during summer, and it took me about a month, and every word was worth it. Les Mis will always be in the top five books that I have read.

I've never seen the play, but they are touring in the US right now and my mom got me tickets for my birthday in March. And whenever I make it to England I hope to see it in the West End!


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## Brian1 (May 7, 2011)

This was a great movie and possibly the best musical movie. I had seen the musical, and this just reinforced everything. Really awesome movie, I recommend it highly.


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## Saturn Fox (Sep 5, 2012)

Am I the only one who thinks that the Thénardiers remind way too much of _Sweeney Todd_? I know that, given the two actors, it's unavoidable, but they're just too similar.


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## LittleOrange (Feb 11, 2012)

I started laughing when I heard Russell Crow sing in the first scene


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