# Is there any hope?



## BroNerd (Nov 27, 2010)

I've posted about this before but haven't done so in the past four months.
So much has changed then, yet so little. 

Here's some background information.
I started grad school last May.
On the first day, I met a woman who I clicked with very well. She is incredibly smart, kind, and adorable to the extreme. She's 26 and I'm 22. We have become close friends. I feel that there is something between us..we connect well. It could be as simple as intellectual compatibility. I go to her when I need help with my studies and she goes to me for help. We have different talents though. I am a quick thinker and someone who goes so out-of-the-box that I never even bother to be in-the-box. She is a slower thinker, by comparison, but is very precise in speech and manner...something which gives her a strong and deep understanding of things. However, despite that, she seems to rely mostly on rote memorization to do well while I rely on conceptual understanding. Despite her study habits, I still regard her as incredibly intelligent. We were both math majors in college.

She is a quiet and serious girl by nature but I can get her to open up. Admittedly, I am pretty good at getting others to open up to me but I like the fact that she has grown comfortable around me. 

We have worked on many group projects together. 
I'm not a believer of fate but two of our classes involved random groups and me and her were in the same group BOTH TIMES! We work well together in groups since we both have a strong work ethic. She probably has a stronger work ethic than I do but I am more eager to take a leadership role..especially since my tendency is to delegate tasks to others and to generate lists and lists of ideas. We work hard in different ways. She is the meticulous perfectionist and I am the results-oriented idea guy. It was during these times that I especially liked being with her. I am better at interacting with others than she is and will often tell other group members of my ideas and her ideas (of course giving her credit for them). 

We have spent a crapload of time together. We can talk for hours and hours. It is common that we will have conversations which go on for 4-5 hours..whether in person or online. 
We've spent a fair amount of time outside of school but the trouble is that we live far away from each other. 

I've asked for advice in the past about this..trying to figure out whether she likes me or not. I know that she likes spending time with me. There is definitely some kind of connection. However, there are a few things about her which make me wonder.

1.)She doesn't like being touched..not just by me but by anyone. I feel it has worked well in my favor after she told me how she doesn't like being touched that I have made no initiative to do so. I'm not even just talking about flirtatious touching but something as simple as a hug. 

2.) We have a long break (2.5 months). The break started two weeks ago. She has shown no signs that she is going to miss me at all..whether through verbal communication or non-verbal communication. She seemed annoyed and devoid of understanding when I was already trying to think of things we could do together during the break. I think it has worked in my favor that I didn't react to her reaction [even though I was somewhat pissed off by what I thought was a legitimate question]. I contacted her two times. We have plans to hang out in mid-January. However, she doesn't seem to miss me..I sometimes wonder if she is capable of missing me. 

4.) Despite her high IQ, she lives a very narrow life. She doesn't like to try new things and is content living with her mother. She doesn't have any desire to venture out on her own. Her only signs of being even moderately adventurous have been around me and we play in very shallow waters.

5.) She went to a university near her home..spent three semesters in the dorm and then moved back home. She is very particular about her personal space. 

I don't ask too many questions about her past because I know that she wouldn't want to answer those questions. I will not go into specifics here.
My assessment of her is that she doesn't really like people too much but has willingly allowed me in her life..we are definitely friends. She enjoys spending time with me though. We've had so many fantastic conversations together. I think she knows it too. I am intellectually aggressive and have really encouraged her to open up in that respect. I'll ask her questions. I'll challenge her beliefs. I'll make a lot of jokes around her and encourage her to be silly. We have a lot of inside jokes.all of them were of my creation but she has definitely added to them. 

However, at times, I am afraid that I overwhelm her because I have such a strong personality and she is timid. Despite this, I feel she has grown to lean on me somewhat and I am "in love" with her.

I hope I don't feel like an idiot because I have forgone more than one fun social opportunity to spend time with her. My grad school friends all understand though and don't take offense. They know how much I care about her. However, towards the end of the semester, I began to do other things without her again. I think this has made things better since I've become less smothering. I've held back a lot. However, it's clear to all that I "love her".

I am wary of taking action because I'm in a small program which ends this August. I feel things will be very awkward if I ask her out and she responds by not only saying me no but cutting me off completely. We've already had a few arguments here and there..things which showed me just how odd she is. 

A part of me wonders if I simply feel that I can change her..make her into the person that I think she can become. A warning I got from a friend is that even if I were to get into a relationship with her that I might be miserable in that relationship since many of the things I desire she may be incapable of giving. However, I feel I see a side of her hardly anyone else sees..but I might simply be wearing rose-colored glasses. 

As my title states: Is there any hope of a relationship and if there is, what should I do?


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## Up and Away (Mar 5, 2011)

Does she know you care so much? Do you communicate your feelings? Are you willing to take a risk and if its meant to happen it will?

It sounds like you are doing just fine. Remember to keep working on yourself, and being humble, and care about other people's feelings, and you'll be alright 

Good luck buddy. If you have any specific questions that ya want an answer on specifically please say so.


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## BroNerd (Nov 27, 2010)

Souled In said:


> Does she know you care so much? Do you communicate your feelings? Are you willing to take a risk and if its meant to happen it will?
> 
> It sounds like you are doing just fine. Remember to keep working on yourself, and being humble, and care about other people's feelings, and you'll be alright
> 
> Good luck buddy. If you have any specific questions that ya want an answer on specifically please say so.


She knows that I care about her but I don't know to what extent. I've dropped so many hints that I like her in that way but I never told her directly. I really don't want to scare her off.
Thanks for your kind words!


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## Ace Face (Nov 13, 2011)

BroNerd said:


> She knows that I care about her but I don't know to what extent. I've dropped so many hints that I like her in that way but I never told her directly. I really don't want to scare her off.
> Thanks for your kind words!


I think @Souled In is on to something. I see this playing out in four different ways. 

1. You never directly tell her how you feel, and much time has lapsed between present time and the possible future. The next thing you know she's bringing home some doucher and she's in love. You become utterly heartbroken as you've grown more fond of her as time has passed. You're desperate for her and decide to go ahead and tell her how you feel. She might believe that you had your chance and that it's too late because she already pushed you aside in her mind and let someone else in. Tragic ending.

2. You tell her directly; she gets scared and cuts off communication. You're left without your best friend, and only slightly heartbroken when compared to the above possibility. You'll then realize that she's not who you thought she was *cough* bitch *cough* and keep on walking as if not a single fuck was given that day. 

3. You tell her directly. She tells you she doesn't feel the same way but still offers her friendship. It would then be up to you to decide whether or not you think you can handle just being friends. 

4. You tell her directly, and she's thinking... good LORD. About damn time


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## BroNerd (Nov 27, 2010)

Ace Face said:


> I think @Souled In is on to something. I see this playing out in four different ways.
> 
> 1. You never directly tell her how you feel, and much time has lapsed between present time and the possible future. The next thing you know she's bringing home some doucher and she's in love. You become utterly heartbroken as you've grown more fond of her as time has passed. You're desperate for her and decide to go ahead and tell her how you feel. She might believe that you had your chance and that it's too late because she already pushed you aside in her mind and let someone else in. Tragic ending.
> 
> ...


Wow, this is really good advice! Thank you,


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## Ace Face (Nov 13, 2011)

BroNerd said:


> Wow, this is really good advice! Thank you,


Glad to help


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## RRRoooaaaRRR (Jun 18, 2011)

The fact that she doesn`t like to be touched rings alarm bells in me.
You have said you feel really close to her but you have not mentioned anything about her appearance, whether you fancy her etc. 
To have a meaningful connection with someone is relatively rare and is always very moving - I think because it touches us real deep, and at our very essence. The thing is (I`m not saying this is the case but wondering) that can easily lead you to think that that must lead to a relationship where you are partners, and well it doesn`t have to be that.
Have you thought that maybe in her history she has been abused ... that would be a very tough one for you to handle ... do you feel you could do that.

Maybe what you could do is ask her outright whether she would like to meet up during the break as friends - and tell her you thought you would check because sometimes you got the impression it wasn`t something she wanted. Her response to this will tell you a lot.

Part of what you have written sounds good in a relationship - opposite but complementary personalities - and where you both appreciate the others strengths. However other things you say make me wonder: for example that you would be able to help her develop:make her into the person you feel she could be (I appreciate you said you only wondered whether this was part of your motivation but if you think this as a possibility I would assume it was) That`s a dodgy area as I`m sure you know. A couple should be equal - and it is always going to be difficult if you do enter a relationship and you try to `fix her`. However as friends `fixing` is ok  You can "love her" as a friend.

If you ask her outright about spending `friend` time together during the break as I mentioned earlier this will create a situation where from her response you can: know whether there is no chance of a relationship, in which case it means you don`t screw up the rest of your time at college and also don`t screw up the friendship.

You say she is timid, lives a very narrow life, seems to want to keep it that way? You seem the total opposite - so therefore you don`t want the same things? Then a friendship is healthy, but a relationship will be fraught with complications.

Can I just ask, have you been in any steady relationships before?


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## Cool Breeze (Sep 4, 2011)

BroNerd said:


> A part of me wonders if I simply feel that I can change her..make her into the person that I think she can become.


This is not a healthy attitude. People in a relationship can help their partners change the things their partner desires to change and at the pace their partner desires, but it must come internally, not from someone else "making them into the person they can become." In other words, you can do this in a supportive role (if and only if your partner explicitly tells you they desire you to help them with this specifically), but not in the lead role, that right/responsibility belongs to your partner. Furthermore, the existence of these feelings going into a relationship is a danger sign for both you and the prospective partner.


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## BroNerd (Nov 27, 2010)

RRRoooaaaRRR said:


> The fact that she doesn`t like to be touched rings alarm bells in me.
> You have said you feel really close to her but you have not mentioned anything about her appearance , whether you fancy her etc.
> To have a meaningful connection with someone is relatively rare and is always very moving - I think because it touches us real deep, and at our very essence. The thing is (I`m not saying this is the case but wondering) that can easily lead you to think that that must lead to a relationship where you are partners, and well it doesn`t have to be that.
> Have you thought that maybe in her history she has been abused ... that would be a very tough one for you to handle ... do you feel you could do that.
> ...


The fact that she doesn't like being touched at all rang alarm bells for me too. She doesn't even want me to hug her. Once we hung out in the city for a whole day and had a great time. However, at the end, I asked her if she would mind if I gave her a goodbye hug..she told me, "I would rather not", she saw I looked disappointed and shyly smiled at me..a couple seconds later she said, "Thanks for inviting me." and then we said bye to each other. I have an idea or two what is up...things I would rather not talk about on the Internet. However, I will say that she isn't really that eager to spend time with people in general, I am one of the lucky few that managed to become a close friend of hers. She lacks an interest in connecting with other people in general and lacks an understanding of how others think/feel. She can only understand how I feel/think about something if it can be reasonably associated with something I did in the past. She simply views most people as nuisances and inconveniences. Like I said, in order to build a strong friendship with her, I initially created a strong intellectual bond rather than a strong emotional bond..but regardless of all that I said about her- I'm pretty sure she's an ISFJ. We have discussed MBTI before and agree with us being ENFJ and ISFJ respectively. 

I definitely fancy her. I guess the best way to describe her is that she is a petite and cute Hispanic woman. She has beautiful eyes and an adorable smile. She has curly black hair. She doesn't flaunt her looks. She dresses plainly and modestly. However, I find her attractive nevertheless. Do I know women who I find much more physically attractive? Yes. However, I don't have the same kind of connection with them as I do with her. 

I am definitely seeing her in three weeks-we're going to a TV showing together in the city. 
I'll probably have some kind of talk with her soon..but I want to see her in person before doing it. 

As for relationships, it depends on how you define "steady", I have been in steady relationships before..one lasted about a year..the others were very short-lived. Many of them were moreso sex-oriented than romance-oriented..just to let you know. I admittedly fear that I am incapable of getting into a true long-term relationship..I fear that if I happen to be with someone for 2+ years, we wouldn't really be in love with one another but rather simply going through the motions unless we had a strong connection.

On the other hand, more than one person has told me that he/she thinks me and my current interest would not make a good couple since she is so disinterested in being social and is so quiet. However, she also values her alone time a lot. I have already envisioned that while I'm out hanging out with other people..she could use that as alone time she desires-rather than having her tag along for something she doesn't like to do. 

I think the fact we complement each other is what has created the strong bond. We've had many fun moments together just by being amazed by our differences. I tease her a lot and we have our inside jokes. She even teases me sometimes. I love making her smile and laugh. She isn't one who laughs out loud..more of a giggling type. She is incredible.



CoolBreeze said:


> This is not a healthy attitude. People in a relationship can help their partners change the things their partner desires to change and at the pace their partner desires, but it must come internally, not from someone else "making them into the person they can become." In other words, you can do this in a supportive role (if and only if your partner explicitly tells you they desire you to help them with this specifically), but not in the lead role, that right/responsibility belongs to your partner. Furthermore, the existence of these feelings going into a relationship is a danger sign for both you and the prospective partner.


I've thought about this over the past two days and realized how wrong I was to think that. It is more so that I really admire her positive qualities and feel that I could help her become more confident in herself. One of her strongest qualities is her intellect, I feel that we connect so well on that level. It is admittedly rare that I meet a single woman around my age who I can connect with on that level. I wouldn't want to actually go change her but I will admit that I can come across as pushy and could definitely see her interpreting "me giving her advice" as "trying to change her". If I were to get into a relationship with her, I would be very careful about how I could get her to realize her potential.


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## BroNerd (Nov 27, 2010)

We did meet up recently. Things were pleasant/fun, especially since I didn't place any sort of pressure on her.
The nice thing was also that she actually got me a Christmas gift, I surprised her with a gift right before our winter break began and was pleasantly surprised to get a gift in return..wasn't expecting anything. 
Another interesting thing I've learned about her: she's never had a boyfriend. 

While I think I've done a pretty good job of telling her implicitly that I like her, I am thinking of doing so explicitly. 
I don't want to scare her off though for two reasons. 
1.) I would lose her as a friend. 
2.) It would be awkward if things were to break off because we are in a small graduate program and see each other all the time while in school [taking the same classes etc].

I may not scare her off regardless of whether she is interested in me or not..but admittedly, for me, it's somewhat of an ego thing..I don't take rejection well but I am prepared to hold my feelings in if rejected which would hopefully mean not scaring her off. 

Despite the fact that we are opposite personality types [ENTP vs. ISFJ], I feel like we connect so well.

The devious part of me wants to get into a relationship with another woman to make my current interest jealous but there are two reasons why I don't think it would be a good idea.
1.) It would be unfair to the other woman especially if she was interested in me and I wasn't interested in her. I don't like to use people. It would also seem somewhat hypocritical for me to use a person because my first reaction if someone did this to me would be to "fuck off". 
2.) There is no one else I really fancy right now which would make the first reason almost a sure thing at this point.


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## BroNerd (Nov 27, 2010)

Can anyone offer some good advice?
I understand, in the long run, it is best for me to tell her explicitly how I feel however, I'm wondering when I should do it and how I should do it given what I've told y'all.


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## BroNerd (Nov 27, 2010)

I guess there's nothing else that can be said about this.


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## Broken (Jan 30, 2012)

Listen to Ace Faces advice. Its right on the money.
You need to let her know how you feel about her. She sounds like a very smart but timid girl, who might of been hurt very badly in the past by someone. Why not try and ease into it. You know her best. If you really think she will be scared off by telling her how you feel straight up, then try doing it over a little time. But you need to let her know sooner rather than later. You are clearly not happy with your current situation and nothing will change if you don't do something. 

You could think of it this way.
Would you feel worse if you told her and lost her, than if you never told her and lost her to someone else.
I think that the pain of losing what could of been, is much worse then being rejected. Even if you are rejected you should feel proud of yourself for making a stand and taking a chance.
So tell her how you feel, however you deiced to do it. Sounds to me that she likes you too. She just doesn't know how to show it. Give her a chance and don't give up on her.


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