# Girls are like apples-- The best ones are at the top of the trees.



## Nomenclature (Aug 9, 2009)

_The boys don't want to reach for the good ones because they are afraid of falling and getting hurt. Instead, they just get the rotten apples that are on the ground that aren't as good, but easy.__

So the apples at the top think there is something wrong with them, when, in reality, they are amazing. They just have to wait for the right boy to come along, the one who's brave enough to climb all the way to the top of the tree._​To what extent do you think this quote is true?

I've heard of guys being intimidated by girls, especially girls who are relatively domineering or assertive, and the whole "Psssshhh, she's out of my league."

I don't think "rotten" is quite the word, though. I don't doubt that guys go for girls who are easy to get, but I think it's kind of unfair to call the girls rotten when [sarcasm]obviously, the boys mentioned here are the ones playing them... especially if it's for sex. [/sarcasm] They _fell_ at one point. [sarcasm]These girls aren't just easy to get-- they're _"easy". _The good ones are objects to be helpless, obtained by the male, and eaten. Hmmm.[/sarcasm]
_
Maybe I'm reading into it too much_, but I'd be the apple that fell on Isaac Newton-- _technically _helpless by the laws of the universe, but more in control of its fate than the average "good" apple would be by staying where it had always been. 

Okay, I'll add this to my OP for emphasis:
*Not my generalization of men-- my interpretation of the quote and what it implied.* There's a difference. I was about to add a paragraph just about how men aren't all about sex just to emphasize that, but I do not think that men should be generalized as in this quote, yo, hence why *I heavily fucking disagree with it.* :frustrating:

When I said that "I don't doubt that guys go for girls who are easy to get," I was far from talking about all guys-- I thought it was implied that I was talking about the guys applicable in this quote. I also thought it was implied that I was being sarcastic about the quote when I was saying that other part about men and sex.

As for the assertiveness part, I said, "I've heard of [it]." Doesn't mean I believe everything I hear.


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## The Proof (Aug 5, 2009)

the fact remains men are idiots and would rather not do their homework and learn some real women's psychology

hey, more for me


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## MissJordan (Dec 21, 2010)

I'd usually make a witty response version of the "Girls are like apples" analogy...
But I'm pretty sure I'd be labelled sexist (that's double standards for you, really).

OT:
I believe the quote to be true.
As for your rather grim generalisation of men, I'm less inclined to agree (since of course, I am one).


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## HowlWithThePack (Jul 4, 2011)

I find myself greatly disliking that quote.

I think that women who are "easy" to get are not rotten, neccesarily. The truely rotten woman is the one who uses men and throws them away like nothing more than garbage. One who is malicious and closed minded, though that applies to both sexes. The ones who are "at the top" are also the ones most vulnerable to sun damage.
I also think men cannot be generalized in such a way. If they can, then women can as well.
I am not explaining my opinion clearly, i apologize. I hope you understand my point, if not, feel free to ask. I am all for a debate.


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## Decoy24601 (Jun 3, 2010)

Yeah, I don't really like that quote either. Plus, there are guys that reach to the good apples near the top, but then some of them turn out to be horrible guys themselves >.<.


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## FreeSpirit (Jun 1, 2011)

I don't believe this quote is true.

Why would the 'good' woman have to wait
in the tree for the 'right' boy to come along
and pluck her? In real life, she could find
him herself. Maybe he's stuck at the top
of some stupid tree, too.


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## 22857 (May 31, 2011)

Or, the apples at the top seem to good and ignore the gravity of the lower apples.
Therefore the boys do not realize that those apples could be reached.

Wait! 
This metaphor is whack... women do not relate to apples and it's sexist now-a-days to assume it's the guys job to go apple picking. 
Hmph.


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## MissJordan (Dec 21, 2010)

FreeSpirit said:


> I don't believe this quote is true.
> 
> Why would the 'good' woman have to wait
> in the tree for the 'right' boy to come along
> ...


Yes, that would be the ideal.

But people aren't ideal -- in fact, they're rather unintelligent. They just go with the norms set by even less intelligent people.

Hence, females wait, because females aren't 'supposed' to take action.


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## whist (Apr 16, 2011)

I don't really like the idea of how this gives whoever the excuse to consider themselves better than the "rotten apples", whatever that implies. Anyway, even if you're at the top of the tree, you need to make an effort too! Waiting forever isn't going to get you anywhere.


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## Who (Jan 2, 2010)

Women aren't like apples at all. I've never had an apple that moaned when I ate it.


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## Cover3 (Feb 2, 2011)

the affirmation is a fantasy construction


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## Merov (Mar 8, 2009)

The social standards are different for different tiers of social ladder.
In the end there are both rotten, and ripe apples at the top, as well as on the ground.

Hotter tiers of society tend to be more eccentric in some cases, as they are use to the social pressure of being admired.

Also, the integrity and merit of people are determined by their actions, and not by the meatbag they're wearing.

...and saying woman are like apples are about as useful as saying they're alot like the quarks in atoms.
0_o.

Suddenly I have the urge to make a beautiful lady uncomfortable. BRB.


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## onefootinthegrave (Feb 4, 2011)

I always thought that was something Adults said to girls who they hoped would _grow into_ their looks, so to speak...


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## Nomenclature (Aug 9, 2009)

MissJordan said:


> OT:
> I believe the quote to be true.
> As for your rather grim generalisation of men, I'm less inclined to agree (since of course, I am one).


*Not my generalization of men-- my interpretation of the quote and what it implied.* There's a difference. I was about to add a paragraph just about how men aren't all about sex just to emphasize that, but I do not think that men should be generalized as in this quote, yo, hence why *I heavily fucking disagree with it.* :frustrating:

When I said that "I don't doubt that guys go for girls who are easy to get," I was far from talking about all guys-- I thought it was implied that I was talking about the guys applicable in this quote. I also thought it was implied that I was being sarcastic about the quote when I was saying that other part about men and sex.

As for the assertiveness part, I said, "I've heard of [it]." Doesn't mean I think all men are like that.

@_FreeSpirit_ said my point better than I did.


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## cricket (Jan 10, 2011)

And why hasn't anyone cut down this tree to build a boat or something useful? If I had an apple tree as such, you can bet there would be pies, cakes, and sauces all the freakin time. And I probably wouldn't climb to the top to get the unripened ones either.
If they're on the ground, you pick them up. That's life. Mmm... pie :crazy:


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## STU KATZ (May 28, 2011)

Apples that stay on the tree too long end up bitter and hardened too, right? Nobody wants to touch those either. Just sayin'.










Also when you climb way, way up a tree to get an apple, and you can't reach it, the fall is really hard. Some people don't handle hitting the ground well.


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## Therapist (Nov 16, 2009)

Apples at the store: Prostitutes.


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## gravitate (Apr 13, 2010)

Whether you are single or not do not correlate strongly with your "quality". Like the Auschwitz terror, who got killed relied heavily on the the factors that you couldn't control no matter how smart and resourceful you were.


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## DustyDrill (May 20, 2011)

I think the best ones are hiding deep in the tree  I like a challenge, and I don't mind getting a bit scraped up in the process.

The ones on the ground are used and abused, and the ones at the top only require a few shakes to end up the same way. They're ground apples in training. Give me the middle, protected and mysterious.


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## LiteratureNerd (Nov 14, 2010)

If I'm going to be likened to an apple, then it damn well better be because I'm chock-full of dietary fiber. I don't wait at the top of a tree for a man to find me...that makes me sound like I have no power or accountability in my relationships at all. No, thank you.

But seriously, I'm totally a great source of phytonutrients. 



Who said:


> Women aren't like apples at all. I've never had an apple that moaned when I ate it.


NICE. You really ought to needlepoint that on a pillow.


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## STU KATZ (May 28, 2011)

DustyDrill said:


> The ones on the ground are used and abused, and the ones at the top only require a few shakes to end up the same way. They're ground apples in training.


You know what they say, once bitten, twice shy....







I think apples that have worms are really gross. Eewwww!


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## devoid (Jan 3, 2011)

This reminds me of something I read about body language impacting what kind of men are interested in you. When I was extremely low self esteem, I got a *ton* of people hitting on me, all of which were total creeps and/or manipulative. I used to wonder, "Hey, why are all these guys into me? Do they really find me that attractive even when I'm in baggy t-shirts and jeans?" It turns out that they found me attractive *because* of this; wearing unappealing clothing and having nervous/unsure body language attracts people who are looking for someone "easy," meaning someone they can easily take advantage of.

On the flip side, now that I appear more confident in public (smile more, wear nicer clothing, etc.) people don't hit on me nearly as much. In fact, people generally leave me alone or politely smile at me, which is a nice change from openly oggling or giving disapproving looks. The same type of guys who used to tease me, objectify my body and try to get in bed with me now look away when I approach, thinking that I'm out of their league. And the guys who do hit on me? Well, here is a comparison...

Guys who hit on me when I had low self esteem:
- ********/hicks
- extremely unintelligent people
- guys with mental impairment
- guys with minimum wage jobs living at home
- guys with weird fetishes or religious ideals
- much older men with insecurities
- younger guys with severe trauma

Guys who hit on me now:
- 20-30 age range
- polite, conscientious, conservative guys
- success-oriented
- highly intelligent guys
- independent free thinkers
- and this is the kicker... "normal" guys. Yeah, that's right, I actually get hit on by guys who have no history of trauma, no mental disorders, no weird religious ideals and no complexes!


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## android654 (Jan 19, 2010)

hziegel said:


> On the flip side, now that I appear more confident in public (smile more, wear nicer clothing, etc.) people don't hit on me nearly as much. In fact, people generally leave me alone or politely smile at me, which is a nice change from openly oggling or giving disapproving looks. The same type of guys who used to tease me, objectify my body and try to get in bed with me now look away when I approach, thinking that I'm out of their league.


Yeah, a lot of guys don't know that. Or rather they do know it and are subconsciously protecting themselves from it? But at any rate, the girl who's hot or gorgeous doesn't get anywhere near the amount of attention the seemingly average girl gets, and that's mostly due to guys who don't measure up or simply feel intimidated by their appearance. So much less competition than the average guy thinks.


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## Up and Away (Mar 5, 2011)

Some guys go for quantity rather than quality, going to the center of each apple then discarding it rather than finding a better one. Interesting that this metaphor doesn't address that the apple will eventually be completely eaten, or that, in order to stay monogamous one would have to not even eat the apple, or, actually have to become part of the tree and share the same nourishment, become an apple themselves?


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## devoid (Jan 3, 2011)

Souled In said:


> Some guys go for quantity rather than quality, going to the center of each apple then discarding it rather than finding a better one. Interesting that this metaphor doesn't address that the apple will eventually be completely eaten, or that, in order to stay monogamous one would have to not even eat the apple, or, actually have to become part of the tree and share the same nourishment, become an apple themselves?


Are we judging these apples by how big they are, or how good they taste, or how nourishing? What if you look for another tree?


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## Up and Away (Mar 5, 2011)

hziegel said:


> Are we judging these apples by how big they are, or how good they taste, or how nourishing? What if you look for another tree?


Yes my soul seeks nourishment. It woulnt matter how big, every apple runs out if you devour it rather than become one with it. Dont be so skeptical of me.

Edit: Oh you werent sorry nevermind haha.


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## devoid (Jan 3, 2011)

Souled In said:


> Yes my soul seeks nourishment. It woulnt matter how big, every apple runs out if you devour it rather than become one with it. Dont be so skeptical of me.
> 
> Edit: Oh you werent sorry nevermind haha.


This whole metaphor is really weird. Are we eating women now? Is it supposed to be a metaphor for sex? In that case wouldn't the women be the trees that produce multiple apples (orgasms...?) and the lazy men go for the shortest ones? Then you at least have the extended metaphor of climbing trees to get to the apples.


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## Chaotic_Stupid (Jun 15, 2011)

I have mixed feelings about that analogy.

I could foresee some desperate girls reading that and thinking that's why they are single. I can also see those same girls suddenly becoming cocky and becoming even more taxing to be around as a result of reading that.

On the other hand, the perceptions of dating in leagues makes could potentially make things difficult.
If someone appears to be in much higher league than they actually are, things might be difficult for them.

Higher leagues have less people, which could be an annoyance. If you truly are in a higher league, that shouldn't phase you much though. You'd be open to seeing someone out of your league and content even if you are single.


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## gravitate (Apr 13, 2010)

gravitate said:


> Whether you are single or not do not correlate strongly with your "quality". Like the Auschwitz terror, who got killed relied heavily on the the factors that you couldn't control no matter how smart and resourceful you were.


PS. I'm not sure what kind of apple I am. I only know that I never got picked and I'm turning 20 this summer:tongue:

I won't and I can't say I'm at the top because many friends of my age who are pretty and intelligent are already in a relationship.

My family is middle class and my closest friends are middle to upper-middle class. They all study abroad in the UK or US or Canada, while I study in a local university. I've never deliberately limited my interests to guys from the middle class, but it is true that it is much easier to communicate and connect with similar backgrounds, and there are not many guys like that in my university (in fact, not many guys too. my university is more famous for arts and social sciences subjects) I don't want to be so differentiating but when it comes to relationships I feel like I'm a social hybrid and should be somewhere else.


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## strawberryLola (Sep 19, 2010)

I remember this analogy. My friend told me this a few years ago. I was thinking, "How bizzarre. Is this how it's like in the dating arena?" Being in an LTR for so long, I was completely out of the loop with 'the game' so to speak.

My hunch on this whole thing- whatever happened to the you be you, I'll be me concept and we get together because it _makes sense_. How about that? Besides, when people are into this power trip about climbing up trees and picking fresh apples they lose out on the experience of just enjoying the fricken tree for the hell of it. Jeez wtf.


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## Donkey D Kong (Feb 14, 2011)

Fuck apples, I don't wanna peel the skin anyway


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## Mr.Xl Vii (Jan 19, 2011)

Axe said:


> Fuck apples, I don't wanna peel the skin anyway


Who the hell peels the skin off an apple? just eat it, the skin is the best part.


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## PseudoSenator (Mar 7, 2010)

*
Girls are like apples in that...

some are sour and some are sweet.
their seeds are poisonous.
guys often ignore their cores.
they make great pies.*

Mix of truth and humor. :tongue:


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## MissJordan (Dec 21, 2010)

PseudoSenator said:


> *
> Girls are like apples in that...
> 
> some are sour and some are sweet.
> ...


Best thing this thread has to spur.


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## suicidal_orange (May 6, 2010)

On re-reading the OP my interpretation of it actually has little to do with what it actually says  The literal translation is far from flattering but I read it as an attempt at a confidence boost for all the amazing shy/reserved/inexperienced girls (and I guess guys too) out there, many of whom take refuge on this very site. Take the first sentence of the second paragraph in isolation and it's actually very positive!

I'm guessing it was written by a girl with an attitude similar to mine, and describes my perspective quite well. I'm looking for a particular type of girl who is not "easy" where easy is strongly tied to normalcy. I think she's (wrongly) calling those at the bottom rotten simply because they have tried and failed more in the relationship arena (failure being compared to her aim of finding a lasting relationship), thus these girls don't have the fear and appear (and probably are - can't say I've tried) "easier" to "get". She's jealous of them, whether that's acknowledged or not, and I think she wrote this to confirm to herself that she's better than them when of course she isn't. With a bit more confidence I'm sure she'll find the brave knight in shining armour she's waiting for, and ironically he'll probably be a fallen orange, the experience of which will give him the confidence to approach her.

@Nomenclature where did this come from? I'm intrigued as to how accurate my assumption are :crazy:


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## susurration (Oct 22, 2009)

Who said:


> Women aren't like apples at all. I've never had an apple that moaned when I ate it.


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## streetsweeper (Jun 14, 2011)

this whole thread reminds me of the song You Picked Me by A Fine Frenzy , it contains the following lyrics: 

Like an apple on a tree 
Hiding out behind the leaves
I was difficult to reach
But you picked me
Like a shell upon a beach 
Just another pretty piece
I was difficult to see
But you picked me 
Yeah you picked me

I thought you might all be fascinated by that.


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## Erbse (Oct 15, 2010)

Well, it's a quote for everyone that cherishes pride and but cannot get relationships to work. That being said it's only natural it finds wide acknowledgment, as that group of people is likely to be quite large.

I prefer the snowflake quote, though.



> You're a unique snowflake, just like everybody else.


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## waterviolet (Apr 28, 2010)

How about this. There are many different kinds of apples, perhaps a guy is simply walking under the wrong tree? If it's meant to be and when they are ready, those upper apples will fall right into the man's lap. Hmm, but then, perhaps that upper apple will sit there on the ground and get passed over simply because the apple hanging off the tree, within reach, might look a little prettier from that angle. Men are such fickle creatures...


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## Neon Knight (Aug 11, 2010)

I'm afraid of heights so I have no choice to be a slut then? Awww


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## devoid (Jan 3, 2011)

SuPEReViL said:


> I'm afraid of heights so I have no choice to be a slut then? Awww


Yes. Your insecurities turn you into a huge whore, and you must face your fear of heights in order to find love.


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## Neon Knight (Aug 11, 2010)

hziegel said:


> Yes. Your insecurities turn you into a huge whore, and you must face your fear of heights in order to find love.


Ok....*takes deep long breath* phew! I think I can do this...*climbs up 4 only feet..."MOMMY!!!!"


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## devoid (Jan 3, 2011)

SuPEReViL said:


> Ok....*takes deep long breath* phew! I think I can do this...*climbs up 4 only feet..."MOMMY!!!!"


Shh, it's okay... you can stay here on the bottom branch with me. 8)


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## Neon Knight (Aug 11, 2010)

hziegel said:


> Shh, it's okay... you can stay here on the bottom branch with me. 8)


lmao wasn't expecting that XD 

Ok I feel better not being alone  There's more available apples at the bottom, hehe more for us


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## Fleetfoot (May 9, 2011)

Aww, how sweet, I love it.

Us good apples do what we're told, and stay put at the top of the tree where we were placed involuntarily, and wait for a guy with enough balls to climb the tree in which we live and take a bite out of us until we're all eaten up. It reminds me of a time when I was at a cheap motel and guys were trying to climb up outside the windows to rape us. -_-


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## Neon Knight (Aug 11, 2010)

It's better that way than to allow the worm to do it I guess. *shrug* Eww bestiality.


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## Who (Jan 2, 2010)

FreeSpirit said:


> Why would the 'good' woman have to wait
> in the tree for the 'right' boy to come along
> and pluck her? In real life, she could find
> him herself. Maybe he's stuck at the top
> of some stupid tree, too.


 When people type like this
I read it in my head
like William Shatner


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## redmanXNTP (May 17, 2011)

I suppose there is some truth to this . . .


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## Mutatio NOmenis (Jun 22, 2009)

The women at the top don't realize that they're just an apple like all others and demand special and unrealistic and unreasonable treatment.


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## WamphyriThrall (Apr 11, 2011)

STU KATZ said:


> *Apples that stay on the tree too long end up bitter and hardened too, right? Nobody wants to touch those either. Just sayin'.
> *
> 
> 
> ...


And who is to say any/all apples not at the top are rotten? I can see myself climbing to the top, finding a decent apple on the way up, and walking away content with a smile on my face. If I'm lucky, I won't even have to start climbing. And technically, wouldn't it be just as much of a challenge working with a less than the 'best' type? The way I see it both situations provide their own set of challenges.

... Besides, I'm a bit on the rotten side myself.


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## FreeSpirit (Jun 1, 2011)

Who said:


> When people type like this
> I read it in my head
> like William Shatner


I'm flattered, actually.


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## MissJordan (Dec 21, 2010)

redmanINTP said:


> I suppose there is some truth to this . . .


Wait...

Is he feeling that chick up while staring at that child?...


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## devoid (Jan 3, 2011)

MissJordan said:


> Wait...
> 
> Is he feeling that chick up while staring at that child?...


What I want to know is: Is that a peach on the other tree? Peaches are better than apples, so why even go there?


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## Neon Knight (Aug 11, 2010)

Mutatio NOmenis said:


> The women at the top don't realize that they're just an apple like all others and demand special and unrealistic and unreasonable treatment.


Yeah like umm...that's right! So there! *nyahh!*


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## android654 (Jan 19, 2010)

hziegel said:


> Yes. Your insecurities turn you into a huge whore, and you must face your fear of heights in order to find love.


But... I like being a whore. It's fun.


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## TheOwl (Nov 3, 2010)

hziegel said:


> This reminds me of something I read about body language impacting what kind of men are interested in you. When I was extremely low self esteem, I got a *ton* of people hitting on me, all of which were total creeps and/or manipulative. I used to wonder, "Hey, why are all these guys into me? Do they really find me that attractive even when I'm in baggy t-shirts and jeans?" It turns out that they found me attractive *because* of this; wearing unappealing clothing and having nervous/unsure body language attracts people who are looking for someone "easy," meaning someone they can easily take advantage of.
> 
> On the flip side, now that I appear more confident in public (smile more, wear nicer clothing, etc.) people don't hit on me nearly as much. In fact, people generally leave me alone or politely smile at me, which is a nice change from openly oggling or giving disapproving looks. The same type of guys who used to tease me, objectify my body and try to get in bed with me now look away when I approach, thinking that I'm out of their league. And the guys who do hit on me? Well, here is a comparison...
> 
> ...


This seems backwards to me. I always got the impression that girls who focus a lot on their appearances are more likely to have low self-esteem (I'm kind of generalizing. I'm thinking of some annoying cheerleaders at my high school who tend to be highly insecure) while girls who don't care much about it typically have higher self-esteem and don't feel the need to impress people. I actually get more guys hitting on me when I'm wearing jeans and a T-shirt, but I think it's because I feel more comfortable that way, not because of how I'm dressed.


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## devoid (Jan 3, 2011)

TheOwl said:


> This seems backwards to me. I always got the impression that girls who focus a lot on their appearances are more likely to have low self-esteem (I'm kind of generalizing. I'm thinking of some annoying cheerleaders at my high school who tend to be highly insecure) while girls who don't care much about it typically have higher self-esteem and don't feel the need to impress people. I actually get more guys hitting on me when I'm wearing jeans and a T-shirt, but I think it's because I feel more comfortable that way, not because of how I'm dressed.


Why do you get the impression that cheerleaders have low self esteem?

Also, what you wear does not equate to your self esteem; it symbolizes how you view your own status. If a girl dresses extremely well, she is placing herself at the top of that tree; she's telling people that she is socially important, and that she is a desirable figure. Whether or not this actually portrays how she feels is not entirely the point, but a perceptive man should be able to see the real difference in her body language. Slouching, lowering your head, bad posture, closed gestures and a quiet voice are all dead giveaways that you are less than confident in a social environment.


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## Fleetfoot (May 9, 2011)

hziegel said:


> Why do you get the impression that cheerleaders have low self esteem?
> 
> Also, what you wear does not equate to your self esteem; it symbolizes how you view your own status. If a girl dresses extremely well, she is placing herself at the top of that tree; she's telling people that she is socially important, and that she is a desirable figure. Whether or not this actually portrays how she feels is not entirely the point, but a perceptive man should be able to see the real difference in her body language. *Slouching, lowering your head, bad posture, closed gestures and a quiet voice are all dead giveaways that you are less than confident in a social environment*.


Damn...there's my problem right there! My mom always says I walk/act like an ape and too shy (coming from an ENFP). I'm actually not necessarily less confident, depends on the social environment...I'm just tired and anemic all the time. I should probably take my pills for it and see what happens when I have more energy?


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## redmanXNTP (May 17, 2011)

hziegel said:


> Why do you get the impression that cheerleaders have low self esteem?
> 
> Also, what you wear does not equate to your self esteem; it symbolizes how you view your own status. If a girl dresses extremely well, she is placing herself at the top of that tree; she's telling people that she is socially important, and that she is a desirable figure. Whether or not this actually portrays how she feels is not entirely the point, but a perceptive man should be able to see the real difference in her body language. Slouching, lowering your head, bad posture, closed gestures and a quiet voice are all dead giveaways that you are less than confident in a social environment.


Your posts are dead on. Your appearance is an advertisement of your investment in yourself and also your perception of yourself and what is important to you. There are different advertisements for different people, but if, for example, you dress "slutty" or racy, then you're presenting yourself as someone who is invested in appearing sexually desirable to men. If you dress conservatively or plainly, you are advertising a more conservative and less risk-taking lifestyle, and possibly someone who doesn't have a lot of social confidence and/or who is withdrawn. If you dress professionally, then you are advertising yourself as a professional, someone who likely has some defined career and life goals and who is working towards them. 

These examples are VERY broad and generalized, but that's just to make the point. Strangers - and we all do this to varying degrees - size us up using the information they have immediately available, and that information at first tends to be dominated by our appearance, which in turn is dominated by what we do to get ready in the morning and the clothes we choose to wear. What is interesting is how men in different socio-economic strata interpret such signals differently insofar as they find you desirable or approachable (or not). Would the identical woman dressed down in the proverbial t-shirt and jeans look as appealing overall and approachable to a man seeing her for the first time as she would if he saw her for the first time in a business suit, or a sun dress, or an evening gown?


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## redmanXNTP (May 17, 2011)

Tawanda said:


> Damn...there's my problem right there! My mom always says I walk/act like an ape and too shy (coming from an ENFP). I'm actually not necessarily less confident, depends on the social environment...I'm just tired and anemic all the time. I should probably take my pills for it and see what happens when I have more energy?


Your body posture is a major sign of confidence. The good news is that posture is ultimately a choice and you can easily master "faking it" with practice. 

Walk at a moderate pace with your back straight, chin up, and shoulders slightly back. Don't exaggerate any of these, but do them in a way that is comfortable for you. Practice in the mirror to get an idea, but don't get turned off by this as being vain or with thoughts of "I look ridiculous". Just get an idea of how to connect the way your posture feels with the way it looks, and then go and do it.

This will make you look more confident, and you'll actually be reinforced both by peoples' reactions to you (likely more smiles and friendly eye contact) as well as feeling more confident (based both upon the behavioral psychological concept of essentially faking it until you make it, as well as those very same reactions).


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## Arclight (Feb 10, 2010)

The OP is very subjective.

Where someone is "rated" (for lack of a better word) Is completely 100% in the eyes of the beholder. 

If the OP feels she is upper echelon, awesome!!.. confidence is good. 
I however might consider her bottom rung regardless. 
What she considers bottom of the tree, might be my idea of top of the tree.

And round and round we go.. 

The whole point of typology is to understand not everybody thinks like you nor shares your values.
This seems to get forgotten a lot around here as we pigeon hole those around us to fit our perceptions.


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## TheOwl (Nov 3, 2010)

hziegel said:


> Why do you get the impression that cheerleaders have low self esteem?
> 
> Also, what you wear does not equate to your self esteem; it symbolizes how you view your own status. If a girl dresses extremely well, she is placing herself at the top of that tree; she's telling people that she is socially important, and that she is a desirable figure. Whether or not this actually portrays how she feels is not entirely the point, but a perceptive man should be able to see the real difference in her body language. Slouching, lowering your head, bad posture, closed gestures and a quiet voice are all dead giveaways that you are less than confident in a social environment.


Not all cheerleaders. Just some of the ones at my school. I used to think it was ridiculous that everyone hates on our cheerleaders until I actually met them. I get the sense that they're insecure because they generally very pretty but bully other girls about their appearance and insult other girls behind their back. They bring others down. They also practically beg for compliments. I don't know if all of them do that, but the ones I know do. Of course, many others who are not cheerleaders do it as well. They were just the people that came into mind.

I agree with your last sentence, but it seemed earlier that you were saying that if you dress in jeans and a T-shirt everyday, you have low self-esteem. I just don't understand that logic at all. I think that if you are comfortable with how you look, regardless of what you're wearing, you can be confident. If you need nice clothes and make up to feel better about yourself, I would think that you are more likely to have low self-esteem. Also, confidence does not equal self-esteem. You can have self-esteem but lack confidence in social situations.


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## goodgracesbadinfluence (Feb 28, 2011)

I don't like any quotes like that. No girl is better than any other girl. No person is better than any other person, for that matter.


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## devoid (Jan 3, 2011)

TheOwl said:


> Not all cheerleaders. Just some of the ones at my school. I used to think it was ridiculous that everyone hates on our cheerleaders until I actually met them. I get the sense that they're insecure because they generally very pretty but bully other girls about their appearance and insult other girls behind their back. They bring others down. They also practically beg for compliments. I don't know if all of them do that, but the ones I know do. Of course, many others who are not cheerleaders do it as well. They were just the people that came into mind.
> 
> I agree with your last sentence, but it seemed earlier that you were saying that if you dress in jeans and a T-shirt everyday, you have low self-esteem. I just don't understand that logic at all. I think that if you are comfortable with how you look, regardless of what you're wearing, you can be confident. If you need nice clothes and make up to feel better about yourself, I would think that you are more likely to have low self-esteem. Also, confidence does not equal self-esteem. You can have self-esteem but lack confidence in social situations.


I'm talking about surface appearance. 99% of the people you will meet will not give a rat's ass about how you actually feel deep down, so it's up to you to take the initiative to communicate. Wearing jeans does not make somebody low self esteem, yes; but it does make *other people* see them as such. And yes, once again, confidence does not equate to self esteem... on the inside. On the outside the two are highly correlated. I know that appearance means almost nothing to an INTP, but that does not mean that it isn't incredibly important to the rest of the world. Very few people are ever going to stop and think, "Hey, that chick lowers her head and wears baggy jeans, but she's probably very confident on the inside."


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## TheOwl (Nov 3, 2010)

hziegel said:


> I'm talking about surface appearance. 99% of the people you will meet will not give a rat's ass about how you actually feel deep down, so it's up to you to take the initiative to communicate. Wearing jeans does not make somebody low self esteem, yes; but it does make *other people* see them as such. And yes, once again, confidence does not equate to self esteem... on the inside. On the outside the two are highly correlated. I know that appearance means almost nothing to an INTP, but that does not mean that it isn't incredibly important to the rest of the world. Very few people are ever going to stop and think, "Hey, that chick lowers her head and wears baggy jeans, but she's probably very confident on the inside."


Okay, I kind of misunderstood you. I read your first post about this at like 3 AMish. 
However, I still don't understand why *other people* assume someone lacks confidence if they wear baggy jeans or whatever (yes, I understand the body language thing. I think that's a whole lot more important than how someone dresses), but I'm sure you're probably tired of talking about this. I'll just settle with the explanation that other people judge on appearance way more than I do (and I don't know if this is because of my personality or because of experience. People often assume I'm stuck up, studious, religious, and a whole bunch of things that I'm not, so I usually feel like other people aren't usually as they seem either).


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## Mariz (Jun 15, 2011)

Wait a second.

How would you know the ones at the top are the best?
They just happened to be there. 
Doesn't mean they're the sweetest, the nicest, or the brightest.


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## ficsci (May 4, 2011)

I don't think that quote is a good analogy, but as a girl who has been single all her life, but supposedly seems "cute" to other girls (I don't know about guys, no guy has ever told me anything while sober/not creepy), I actually do want to hear some guys' honest opinions about me. Seriously. Is it because I don't seem interested? Is it because I'm too introverted/private/intimidating? Too much in my own world? Too picky? What is it? Someone tell me! D:< because I need some more self confidence when I go apple plucking myself.


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## wisdom (Dec 31, 2008)

Start simple: what do you look like, and do you out around guys much (a dating site with clear pictures counts)?


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## sonicdrink (Aug 11, 2010)

How about this: Women are apples, and men are pears (closest tasting to an apple in my opinion). Some will stay on the top for a while, and become bitter. Most will hit the ground eventually, and some will bump each other at their final roll. Some become more bruised than others, some meet the perfect one to share the ground with. Some trees are closer to others, and there are different kinds of apples and pears. Some are next to the same type of tree. Either way, time is spent, things happen, and there's a grand ol' fruit picker who has to knock us down first so that we can fall to the fruit we roll to. 

Eh... consider this a rough draft?


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