# Maitri, and your experience of life



## Lord Bullingdon (Aug 9, 2014)

I think I've seen this elsewhere, but reading it in Maitri last night just led me to some sort of major illumination. Hope it helps you too.


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"Moving around the enneagram, we can see that what each of the types tends to hold on to the most is, again, not a particular set of external possessions but rather a particular felt sense of self--an internal self-image. In tandem with it, what is also held on to by each type is an image of how they would like to be--an ego ideal. Our ego ideal always operates in counterpoint to our self-image, driving out our attempts to mitigate the deficient and painful sense of self at the core of our identity.

Nines tend to hold on to a belief and felt sense that they are unimportant, insignificant, and undeserving of attention, while at the same time clinging to an ego ideal of being loving and benevolent. Ones hold onto a belief and felt sense that they are imperfect, not good enough or simply not enough, and hold on to the ego ideal of striving to become and behave like a good person. Twos hold on to the belief and experience of themselves as rejectable, while trying to manipulate themselves to be different, and hold on to the ego ideal of being a loveable person. Threes hold on to the belief and felt sense that they must do everything to maintain their world, and hold on to the ego ideal of being accomplished and successful. Fours hold on to the belief and experience of themselves as abandoned and flawed, and cling to the ego ideal of being sensitive, original, creative, and unique. Fives, as we will explore in more depth, hold on to the belief and felt sense of themselves as isolated and cut off, ultimately separate, and hold on to the ego ideal of being knowledgeable. Sixes hold on to the belief and experience of themselves as weak and vulnerable to attack, while holding on to the ego ideal of being devoted and loyal to a person or cause. Sevens hold on to the belief and felt sense of themselves as being outside of the natural unfoldment of things--hence the need to map and plan--and hold on to the ego ideal of being okay and having it together. Eights hold on to the belief and experience of themselves as having been wronged and meddled with, and hold on to the ego ideal of being powerful, strong, and unassailable."






Though one liners aren't the best way to type, I found it quite illuminating as to what each type should "feel" about life. 

So questions. *Do you identify with your type's? Care to elaborate on any of these themes? How does it manifest in your life?*


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## Lord Bullingdon (Aug 9, 2014)

@Living dead @crashbandicoot @Swordsman of Mana

In light of prior typing confusion, I'm wondering what you guys think?

This is supposedly "the core essence" of what it means to be the type.


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## Kitfool (Oct 24, 2012)

I'm a little confused by the 7 one, perhaps because I have never heard us described that way and it is throwing me for a loop. All of the other ones made sense. D:


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

There's more of them I relate to,2 in the image group.I also relate to 5 to a degree,feeling somehow isolated.And there's mix of 4 and 8.I have that idea of 4 but it doesn't make me cling to being sensitive,unique,etc,it's more like I feel wronged in some way and need to somehow fix that.


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## Kitfool (Oct 24, 2012)

Living dead said:


> There's more of them I relate to,2 in the image group.I also relate to 5 to a degree,feeling somehow isolated.And there's mix of 4 and 8.I have that idea of 4 but it doesn't make me cling to being sensitive,unique,etc,it's more like I feel wronged in some way and need to somehow fix that.


Your identification with 4 sounds more like maitri's description of 8, btw


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## Pressed Flowers (Oct 8, 2014)

I identify a little with what was said about 2s - I do see myself as lovable and rejectable - but what I do more than anything is see myself as insignificant and pride myself on being loving. I also identify highly with what was said about 5s and 1s, but not necessarily with 7s (which has been said to be apart of my tritype).

I think that my relating the more negative aspects of 9 has more to do with some outside factors in my life more than anything. I'm definitely _not_ a 9 - I'm not impartial and recognized this even as a child - but due to some of my experiences I am inclined to be more mild and see myself as extremely insignificant while also priding myself on being loving. 

This was an interesting clip of the enneagram perspectives. Thank you for sharing.


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## Recede (Nov 23, 2011)

None of those quite fit. I hold onto the belief of being different and flawed (uniquely disadvantaged), while idealizing those same things as a part of my identity. No abandonment issues though, as far as I'm aware.


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## 0+n*1 (Sep 20, 2013)

As you said, typing with these one-liners is not the right way. Let's break it down.


> Nines tend to hold on to a belief and felt sense that they are unimportant, insignificant, and undeserving of attention, while at the same time clinging to an ego ideal of being loving and benevolent.


The first time I read I couldn't relate but now I kinda do. I don't believe I am not important to me and that I don't matter to those that care about me and I don't believe exactly that I don't deserve attention. However, I have caught me saying to people that care about me that they shouldn't worry about me, since I am not important and I don't need this attention and I am the only that should care about me because it's my responsibility. And in a bigger scale I don't matter, but no else does as well. And in my emptiest days, I just say I live an insignificant life and that I don't matter at all. About loving and benevolent, I can feel it but I wouldn't use those words; I think I am good person. My ideal self-image is not really to be loving and benevolent. I can dream bigger. If something, it is to not be an asshole and treat others with respect. That I can relate to.


> Ones hold onto a belief and felt sense that they are imperfect, not good enough or simply not enough, and hold on to the ego ideal of striving to become and behave like a good person.


I think I am not perfect and not enough, but it's less of a felt sense and more of a fact. I think I should strive to become a good person, but I don't usually think I am actually striving to become that person. I know there's a lot room for improvement the same way I know gravity had its hold on me. I relate to this from and ideational standpoint, but I wouldn't say it constitutes some deeply felt sense, even if takes a lot of space in my inner chatter.


> Twos hold on to the belief and experience of themselves as rejectable, while trying to manipulate themselves to be different, and hold on to the ego ideal of being a loveable person.


:? I don't relate to this one. I don't feel rejectable or loveable. It's like I don't care, even if I do to some extent. My ideal image is not be loveable.


> Threes hold on to the belief and felt sense that they must do everything to maintain their world, and hold on to the ego ideal of being accomplished and successful.


I feel I must do everything to maintain my world since it is my responsibility, but I don't think of me as someone accomplished or successful. Being accomplished is part of my ideal self-image. I wouldn't add success, since when I think about the word, I always think about the cheesy things people connect with the idea of success.


> Fours hold on to the belief and experience of themselves as abandoned and flawed, and cling to the ego ideal of being sensitive, original, creative, and unique.


I believe I am flawed like all humans are and I don't believe I am abandoned. If something, I feel forgotten at times. Being creative is part of my ideal self-image and that's about it. Maybe original and unique as well, if understood as independent and not being associated with anything else; those words are too disney for me.


> Fives, as we will explore in more depth, hold on to the belief and felt sense of themselves as isolated and cut off, ultimately separate, and hold on to the ego ideal of being knowledgeable.


I don't feel isolated and cut off or ultimately separate. That's more of an ideal self-image to me. It's good to be knowledgeable but it's not exactly part of my ideal self-image. If something, it's experienced the one that's part of ideal self-image.


> Sixes hold on to the belief and experience of themselves as weak and vulnerable to attack, while holding on to the ego ideal of being devoted and loyal to a person or cause.


You had me there in weak and vulnerable but having an ideal self-image of being devoted to something external, specially someone else is just degrading.


> Sevens hold on to the belief and felt sense of themselves as being outside of the natural unfoldment of things--hence the need to map and plan--and hold on to the ego ideal of being okay and having it together.


I feel outside of the natural unfoldment of things. This seems similar to feeling abandoned or feeling isolated, but I don't agree with those. When I say this, I mean that I feel that my life is uneventful and there's a lot going on around me that I am not part of. I crave experience. About the ideal self-image, having it together is one part of it. 


> Eights hold on to the belief and experience of themselves as having been wronged and meddled with, and hold on to the ego ideal of being powerful, strong, and unassailable


I don't feel wronged. The person that has hurt me the most is myself with all my insecurity and low self-esteem. My ideal self-image isn't exactly to be powerful, strong and unassailable. I am not feeling this one.

Of the will triad, I relate to 1 and 9 the most. Of the image triad, I relate to 3, then 4 and finally 2. Of the head triad, I oddly relate more to 7, then 6 and finally 5. I will order them: 7≥3≥1≥9>4≥6>5>8>2


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

The Typeless Wonder said:


> @Living dead @crashbandicoot @Swordsman of Mana
> 
> In light of prior typing confusion, I'm wondering what you guys think?
> 
> This is supposedly "the core essence" of what it means to be the type.


based on this, I related to 8>5>7


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## Vermillion (Jan 22, 2012)

The Typeless Wonder said:


> Sixes hold on to the belief and experience of themselves as weak and vulnerable to attack, while holding on to the ego ideal of being devoted and loyal to a person or cause.
> 
> Though one liners aren't the best way to type, I found it quite illuminating as to what each type should "feel" about life.
> 
> So questions. *Do you identify with your type's? Care to elaborate on any of these themes? How does it manifest in your life?*


I can experience myself as "weak", but that's only when I'm feeling severely down. Otherwise my self-image is closer to the one 4s are supposed to have here, and even a little to that of the 3. 

I don't idealize loyalty. I'm already pretty damn loyal and I'm not interested in being any more "devoted" to things than I already am. I relate way more to the ego ideals of 8s, 3s and 2s, as described here.


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## Mr inappropriate (Dec 17, 2013)

I can relate to ego ideal of 7, other ideals don't really appeal to me. Being loveable, strong or creative won't hurt but eh.

I remember seeing myself that can be described with 9-1-2-5-6-7 at different times. I'm not sure if I understood 7 right but I feel sorta "left out" in general. It seems similar to 5 but the difference is I'm "here" unlike being ultimately seperate like 5. Shit just happens when I'm looking the other way.

For 2, I feel rejectable and particularly vary of putting myself in a situation in which other people have the power to reject me.
For 9 self image, feelings of unimportant, insignificant can effect me. If someone is ignoring/not answering me or can't hear my voice on phone/irl, I sometimes worry about if my order has been forgetten which leads to anger.

6-8 self images are usually situational for me; if I'm *really* wronged or vulnerable to attack at some point so I don't view myself that way usually.


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## braided pain (Jul 6, 2012)

> Sixes hold on to the belief and experience of themselves as weak and vulnerable to attack, while holding on to the ego ideal of being devoted and loyal to a person or cause.
> 
> Eights hold on to the belief and experience of themselves as having been wronged and meddled with, and hold on to the ego ideal of being powerful, strong, and unassailable.


I dunno, as written, I'd identify more with Eight, but I have a lot of internal resistance to seeing myself as weak. When I get angry about being wronged, there's always a distance there, like I'm upset on my own behalf, the way I would be if someone else were in that situation. (projecting my weaknesses onto others?) I want to be strong not so much to protect myself but for the cause of protecting others.

Stupid brain. *sigh*


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## Golden Rose (Jun 5, 2014)

> Ones hold onto a belief and felt sense that they are imperfect, not good enough or simply not enough, and hold on to the ego ideal of striving to become and behave like a good person.


This is actually very true although the definition of a 'good person' is highly personal, I have my own morals and no two people will ever agree on what constitutes a good person which is a good thing. You'll never be at your best if you don't have your own strong grounds to stand on.



> Fours hold on to the belief and experience of themselves as abandoned and flawed, and cling to the ego ideal of being sensitive, original, creative, and unique.


I definitely see myself as flawed and rather than abandonment, I'd say 'rejection' is my worst fear although the two are entwined because, you see, to be disregarded is annoyed but it's never my problem as I don't force my presence on people. But being rejected when there were are are strong feelings involved is the 10th circle of torture, it's the worst heartbreak that I can think of because it's even more proof that who you are is never good enough but that was always a fact. It can improved but I am who I am. I appreciate this type stability immensely, though.



> Fives, as we will explore in more depth, hold on to the belief and felt sense of themselves as isolated and cut off, ultimately separate, and hold on to the ego ideal of being knowledgeable.


Yes, knowledge is my own child, my own secret garden, my own armor. I always go the extra mile to research what I can, to gather data, to perform an autopsy on my feelings and see the logic behind them and my knowledge is competency, is deliberate and compulsive. Sixes they need to prove it to the world but I don't want that, all I want is to be taken as I am but to do so I must be able to know. To eventually explain in the simplest way possible.

Either way my tritype is quite depressing but I've grown to love it.


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## Paradigm (Feb 16, 2010)

> Ones hold onto a belief and felt sense that they are imperfect, not good enough or simply not enough, and hold on to the ego ideal of striving to become and behave like a good person.


Minor nitpick, this seems close to type 3 except for the very end.

As for personally... I have to say I don't relate to this as it's worded. I feel like _the world_ isn't good enough, and thus I should make an effort to be good because I'm the only thing I can control, because I don't want to help make the world a worser place. 

But I also think that this is somewhat of a "developmental phase" for me. A sort of early-20s crusader binge, I guess? I feel like, now in my mid-20s, I'm very slowly reaching more of a balance.



> Sixes hold on to the belief and experience of themselves as weak and vulnerable to attack, while holding on to the ego ideal of being devoted and loyal to a person or cause.


:\ Eh. I don't see myself as weak (nor strong). Except, I do loathe being seen as stupid or below average intelligence.

I do see myself as vulnerable to attack... But I'm female _and_ "severely" disabled, so that's sort of just... common sense. I would say I'm aware of it, yes, but I don't live a life of major distrust because of it. I'd be surprised if you met someone in my position who would say no one poses a danger to them (assuming they are alone and unarmed), given stories in the news and even probable personal experiences.

I don't hold an ego ideal of being loyal to a person. I guess you could say I "enjoy" being loyal to a cause, but it's not a specific cause. It's more of a personal philosophy which isn't able to be defined. I'm loyal to what I see as right, not to any creed.



> Sevens hold on to the belief and felt sense of themselves as being outside of the natural unfoldment of things--hence the need to map and plan--and hold on to the ego ideal of being okay and having it together.


This sounds like me the most, no question. But I'm relating it to "6s feel like they have no roadmap to life." Maybe Maitri means something different here. And I do (90% of the time) have an ideal of seeming okay/together, to not have others worry about me. But that could be my temperament, and my superego telling me to not adversely affect others.

Bit interesting, though. I've strongly considered 7 before.


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## Lord Bullingdon (Aug 9, 2014)

Paradigm said:


> This sounds like me the most, no question. But I'm relating it to "6s feel like they have no roadmap to life." Maybe Maitri means something different here. And I do (90% of the time) have an ideal of seeming okay/together, to not have others worry about me. But that could be my temperament, and my superego telling me to not adversely affect others.
> 
> Bit interesting, though. I've strongly considered 7 before.


As someone who strongly considers 7 as a core type myself, I can tell you (_in my case_) the feeling is more like being at a playground. It's a festive atmosphere, the sky is blue, the sun is shining, it's warm. And you look around and see all the other kids having fun, and you know there was something you were "supposed" to do here. But you can't remember what it was. 

So you try the merry-go-round, then you try the swings. But each time you try something new, everything seems to be going on around you, and maybe that's what you were supposed to do instead. Not this, but that. And soon you're running around tearful and in a panic, because it's getting late and you still have NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO DO.

Meanwhile, the world's going on around you, still happy, fulfilled, and oblivious to your pain.

I can see how the planning ties into that, but the feeling of being outside the natural unfoldment...really is isolating. And that's the real source of suffering. (And 7 isn't the on I'd primarily identify with on this one, either!)

The ego ideal of being OK...yeah, that's right. Not "happy", just "OK". Like if a bull gored me, I'd stand up and be like "I'm okay...I'm okay..." Because not being okay is too scary to contemplate.

Is that how you experience it? Or anyone else who relates (like @crashbandicoot , I read your post above. Can relate).


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## pivot_turn (Dec 10, 2014)

I don't relate that much to 9 in this actually. There always comes up things like this and I get more unsure about my type again.

I relate here most to 1 and then 2. I'd probably be a 127 or 125 according to this instead of 936. Though 2's line's maybe not _that_ far from 9 and 1's not that far from what could be 3, like someone already said. At least I do relate more to 3 than 4 here and 9 than 8.


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## Kitfool (Oct 24, 2012)

*Nines tend to hold on to a belief and felt sense that they are unimportant, insignificant, and undeserving of attention, while at the same time clinging to an ego ideal of being loving and benevolent.** Ones hold onto a belief and felt sense that they are imperfect, not good enough or simply not enough, and hold on to the ego ideal of striving to become and behave like a good person. *Twos hold on to the belief and experience of themselves as rejectable, while trying to manipulate themselves to be different, and hold on to the ego ideal of being a loveable person. Threes hold on to the belief and felt sense that they must do everything to maintain their world, and hold on to the ego ideal of being accomplished and successful. Fours hold on to the belief and experience of themselves as abandoned and flawed, and cling to the ego ideal of being sensitive, original, creative, and unique. Fives, as we will explore in more depth, hold on to the belief and felt sense of themselves as isolated and cut off, ultimately separate, and hold on to the ego ideal of being knowledgeable. *Sixes hold on to the belief and experience of themselves as weak and vulnerable to attack, while holding on to the ego ideal of being devoted and loyal to a person or cause. Sevens hold on to the belief and felt sense of themselves as being outside of the natural unfoldment of things--hence the need to map and plan--and hold on to the ego ideal of being okay and having it together. *Eights hold on to the belief and experience of themselves as having been wronged and meddled with, and hold on to the ego ideal of being powerful, strong, and unassailable."

So I can relate to 9, 1, 6 and 7 by these descriptions. Weird because I usually don't relate to 1 at all, but it's possible I am heading towards disintegration right now. I have been told to "get off my high horse" once in the last week and called a "know-it-all" another time haha. After being confronted about it, I've noticed that I have been kind of telling people how to live their lives recently, which I normally wouldn't do.

Anyway, I'm still trying to understand the 7 description. I can relate to it, but it doesn't like, hit me you know. I can definitely relate " the ego ideal of being okay and having it together.", but I've never really thought of myself "as being outside of the natural unfoldment of things", though I guess if I read more into it I can find truth in it. Yet I feel like I'm always either trying to insert myself places where I don't necessarily belong, or watching from the outside and wishing I did, or planning my own fantasy life where I'm in the middle of everything haha.


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## Paradigm (Feb 16, 2010)

The Typeless Wonder said:


> But each time you try something new, everything seems to be going on around you, and maybe that's what you were supposed to do instead. Not this, but that. And soon you're running around tearful and in a panic, because it's getting late and you still have NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO DO.
> Meanwhile, the world's going on around you, still happy, fulfilled, and oblivious to your pain.


I don't know. I feel like I haven't tried enough things for this to be accurate.

As a kid (before age 10), I was clueless to everything. I felt lost and confused almost constantly. And I was confused why everyone else seemed so... confident and not clueless. What did they learn that I didn't? Wasn't I just like them, as capable as them? Why didn't I learn those lessons, too? Why won't they teach me? Why am I always out of the loop? I didn't know what to do, or how to learn what to do. I still don't. I feel behind, I've always felt behind. 

In retrospect, this was discrimination exacerbated by my withdrawn nature. But the feeling that I was the same was the key emotion: I wasn't different on the inside, and I had no idea why anyone thought I was. 



> I can see how the planning ties into that, but the feeling of being outside the natural unfoldment...really is isolating. And that's the real source of suffering. (And 7 isn't the on I'd primarily identify with on this one, either!)


Yeah, I've always felt isolated, even inside my loving family. I think one of the key things though is, it seems like 7 will desperately seek ways to become involved or engaged (and not necessarily with people, one can be engaged mentally). 

My response to isolation was to isolate more, basically. I have bursts of feeling the need to get outside myself, but I want to say it's more of a supplement than a core (that is, a wing influence).



> The ego ideal of being OK...yeah, that's right. Not "happy", just "OK". Like if a bull gored me, I'd stand up and be like "I'm okay...I'm okay..." Because not being okay is too scary to contemplate.


Lol the 10% of me not being okay would include bull-goring :tongue: Despite my dislike of this trait, I just want some cuddles when I'm sick or injured.

Then again... I do have the belief that everything will be okay. Everything will work out. It can cause stagnation, but that's also depression talking. I could compare it to how they say teenagers think they're invulnerable -- it's a quiet confidence that I'll get past anything, that I can resolve whatever problem that may come up. But... I mean, what else can you do? Suicide/death is literally the only other option besides getting past things, and I enjoy being alive.


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## Zamyatin (Jun 10, 2014)

Silveresque said:


> None of those quite fit. I hold onto the belief of being different and flawed (uniquely disadvantaged), while idealizing those same things as a part of my identity. No abandonment issues though, as far as I'm aware.


That's pretty textbook E4.



> Ones hold onto a belief and felt sense that they are imperfect, not good enough or simply not enough, and hold on to the ego ideal of striving to become and behave like a good person.


This is pretty accurate, although instincts will vary what sort of striving is emphasized.

In these excerpts, I relate to both the beliefs and ideals of 1s and 8s at about equal levels, the ideal of 3, and the belief of 4.


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## J Squirrel (Jun 2, 2012)

The Typeless Wonder said:


> Fives, as we will explore in more depth, hold on to the belief and felt sense of themselves as isolated and cut off, ultimately separate, and hold on to the ego ideal of being knowledgeable.


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## Donovan (Nov 3, 2009)

i relate more to 1, 2, 3, and 8, than i did 6 really. but i guess this has to be taken in the context that it is heavily simplified, so if i added in that i felt weak with some of my emotions--and because of this, i wouldn't let them out frequently, nor would i put them on display without first knowing that they would be received well--and that if i felt comfortable enough showing them to others, that _that_ in itself, could gain them my loyalty... 


other than that, i see strength broken up into so many aspects that i see no one as being completely strong or completely weak, and therefore do not see myself as either... and i don't vibe with the "looks for a person or cause" in and of itself, again, unless it's that those "softer emotions" happen to line up with said person or said cause--otherwise, i'm not trying to piggy-back on others in order to feel safe throughout life; that's actually something that i try to abstain from.


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## atenea (Sep 14, 2014)

In these simplified descriptions, I can relate mostly to 4, then 5 and 6 almost equally. I consider myself a 5w4, though I think I have Six traits as well.


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

I've seen this thread before, but only now have I had the time to sit and respond in any kind of meaningful way. 

The unfoldment stuff has never made a lot of sense to me when put in the oversimplified way she does in your quoted excerpt, neither with respect to Holy Law (3) nor Holy Planning (7) or Holy Will (2). The E of Holy Ideas has always left me pretty meh. Maitri says that 7s don't trust the natural unfoldment of things, so they have to figure out how shit works, plot where they are going to make them work. I tune out at words like unfoldment flowing and coalescing etc. I am aware that this just her way of conceptualizing transience: that everything is changing in this moment, and that these changes are what constitute Being, collectively and individually. We are a part of this transience, and we also experience it directly. I prefer it having explained plainly. "Unfoldment of reality" is just another way of saying "life as its evolving every moment", and in a spiritual esoteric sense, that we are all evolving with it and are a part of this flow, in our common humanity, struggles, deficiencies, gifts and more. 

As for 7, essentially they stay a step ahead of life (its ever changing reality/unfoldment) by fixating on plans, including escape plans, distractions etc. rather than being "present" or being "present" to essential nature as our individual and universal experience of Being. This I can agree with. 

Planning here is not about prediction (more Type 6). It's about not sitting with the present moment and trying to outrun and outsmart "unfoldment"/transience by living in and planning for the future and immersing oneself in activity. Also, the type's specific discomfort with transience (loss of contact with Being), lies in the deprivation of nourishment or an inner perception of this around which the type's core issues cluster. So, the other part of the 7's defense strategy, commonly described as rationalization, involves reframing positively as a way of avoiding the inner experience of parchment and lack. Witnessing "unfoldment" requires that we sit with the present moment. Refocusing on the present involves refocusing on present suffering (the fundamental state of discontentment). Instead of being truly comfortable with how life is evolving and transforming this moment, 7s substitute this more abstract "holding" /comfort with planning.



> Movement and change take place in this eternal now, this infinity of presence, and this is the unfoldment of Being. Abiding in this flow of Being is abiding in “real time,” and this brings us to the primary implication of this understanding of Holy Work. It is that real work is the endeavor of becoming conscious of our True Nature as Being. This is the holiest work a human being can engage in.


-Maitri, Spiritual Dimensions

I have always talked about the number of plans, projects, travel opportunities and more I have set up all the time. The underlying reason is that it has kept me distanced from a deep sense of deprivation and searing hunger. A much more specific element of "unfoldment" that triggers the 7 is the deprivation of nourishment, as stated above. So, the contact from essence is lost through the contact with Holy Work and through this deprivation of nourishment (described as being snatched from the mother's breast). 

What I don't personally relate to is when she talks about feeling a lack of "holding" because one is out of step with unfoldment. I relate to staying a step ahead of life as its evolving, but this lack of "holding" is not a part of how I experience things. I relate so incredibly and intimately with what she said about being deprived of nurturance. It's because of this that 7s don't just believe that only they can fulfill their needs (the type is very self-referential and self-focused), but they confuse their needs with their wants. There's an acute sensitivity to "lack", which begins with nurturance but expands to material deprivation, sensory deprivation (variety of sense experiences), deficits in intellectual stimulation and a mix depending on the individual 7's life experience. That's the order in which I experience it. All of this cumulative "lack" /experience of deprivation or deficiency that's experienced as barrenness/unquenchable pain, when it's experienced at all. It is this barrenness that becomes a sort of pseudo blindspot that the 7 has while they're manifesting their plans (7s are people of action). They are never fully unconscious to it. It just isn't experienced as "painful", unless the 7 matures and sits with it, or has had unusual life experiences. Until then, it's more experienced as an avoidance of stagnation or, as some put it, boredom.

I, personally, am not the type to fear boredom. I keep myself entertained easily. There's so much to do, indulge, experience, taste, consume, achieve. I don't have the time to be bored lol. I am very action oriented, and what I fear is stagnation/entrapment of the sort that leaves me with less options or no options however temporary it may be or outright deprives me of what I want. It's what I have come to learn lay at the centre of why I began to fear failure for the first ever in my life (something I said on my thread years ago), after I failed in a way that left me devastated and entirely without options at the time. Being severely depressed at the time, the states of anhedonia and apathy that define it, contributed to the impression of having "disintegrated to 9". I had several people point out to me back then that I should take being neuroatypical at the time into account. It just took time and distance to make sense of it. When you have experienced depression, it's harder for you to peel off the layers. That objectivity comes with time. 

I have always said I have had to learn to do "without". When not fixated by and into this state, I experience my inner world as full of life, dreams, a veritable world of its own, teeming with potential, vitality, dynamism, creativity and more. As I've had to mature at a very young age due to crazy life reasons, I am fortunate that I have learnt to embrace suffering and its transience at a very young age. It's not a lesson I always remember, but it is one I seek to remember and live. The Wisdom has been hard earned.

It's easy for me to get into this subject today, because just this morning I had a talk with my best friend, and we delved into very similar territory. I remember telling him that I had felt this ravenous enraged hunger in life, of the kind, that had I, metaphorically speaking, latched on to a source of nourishment, I wouldn't have just sucked it dry, but sucked till it bled. And, I'd drink the blood too. Conquest and indulgence become substitutes for nurturance.

The lesson has been to remember that the "oasis", the proverbial "milk" (hah! "milk of paradise"- love Coleridge) or "juice" isn't out there somewhere but within. Simply envisioning, planning and even carrying out these plans into triumph, expansion, resources that keep growing and more, does not resolve the hunger, however you experience it. Reframing things in a way that convinces you that you've got it, that all's well, and avoiding the pain or the perception of stagnation, doesn't really facilitate any kind of growth or long term fulfillment. What 7s fear and try to overcome by compulsive planning eventually catches up. I said some time back that my past had caught up with me. As for which other types I relate to, I'd say the holy ideas of 3 and 8 make a great deal of sense to me. I can relate to these and to these types, in general, in significant ways.

Enneagram stuff aside, I am dealing with a lot of ..excruciatingly frustrating things thanks to PTSD, depression etc. I have gleaned important lessons from Enneagram study, and it has had its place. I have, for a while now, been focusing on therapy supported with my own study and practice of Buddhism, Taoism and Sufism. I've had this period of exploration in the past, but now that I'll be 30 in 4 years, I have lived and learnt more since then in a way that I am benefiting and growing in ways I didn't before. 

I have befriended my pain. <3 It's a turbulent friendship, but yay I've done some serious work here haha. There are other things that I will work in, in my own time and at my own pace. 

There you go, OP.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Let's see:

*Nines tend to hold on to a belief and felt sense that they are unimportant, insignificant, and undeserving of attention, while at the same time clinging to an ego ideal of being loving and benevolent*
Some people pointed out to me that I actually may purposefully diminish myself more than I realized. I never associated that before with my wing, actually. Being placed at the center of attention is just somewhat ironically uncomfortable, seeing how I also at the same time take up a lot of space and tend to in a way, still make myself the center of attention (thinking about how sx 8 is described as possession here). At first glance, however, I can't say I particularly or overly relate to this statement. but there is a grain of truth in it in how I experience myself and operate as a whole. 

*Ones hold onto a belief and felt sense that they are imperfect, not good enough or simply not enough, and hold on to the ego ideal of striving to become and behave like a good person*
In a sense yes, to the latter part of how one feels internally bad, but I think the way I experience it is very different from a 1. I think 1 is more in the sense of being flawed, not quite proper, wrong and the like; I just experience itself as a very strongly felt inherent badness. This is why oneliners are so dangerous because it's very easy to conflate the meaning of a thing with another thing if one doesn't know the full context in which something is being uttered. Other than that, I can't say I overly relate to this statement. I definitely do not strive to be seen as a good person, LOL. If anything at my unhealthier moments, I may purposefully do the opposite and pride myself in it. 

*Twos hold on to the belief and experience of themselves as rejectable, while trying to manipulate themselves to be different, and hold on to the ego ideal of being a loveable person*
I can't say I relate to this much at all, no, aside the idea of feeling rejectable, which I'm quite sure isn't per se unique to 2. It's just that their sense of essence pertains more to an idea of being lovable. 

*Threes hold on to the belief and felt sense that they must do everything to maintain their world, and hold on to the ego ideal of being accomplished and successful*
No, I can't say I relate much to this, if at all. Accomplishment and success almost has the knee-jerk of generating a feeling that it's something to be avoided, rather than something I should strive towards. See my comment on 9. 

*Fours hold on to the belief and experience of themselves as abandoned and flawed, and cling to the ego ideal of being sensitive, original, creative, and unique*
No, I don't feel abandoned or flawed, nor do I see myself as sensitive, original, creative and unique. I do feel like I'm flawed in the sense that I wish I could have gotten a lot of things in my life I never got to have or experience but then the envy moves more into a realm of unfairness and with that, anger. Again, I don't like making per se, a spectacle out of myself, where I experience myself to be such. I like the idea of being a commoner rather than special or unique person, which stems from a feeling of always feeling like I was the special or odd one from my childhood. It created a deeply felt experience of wanting to be like everyone else. 

*Fives, as we will explore in more depth, hold on to the belief and felt sense of themselves as isolated and cut off, ultimately separate, and hold on to the ego ideal of being knowledgeable*
I wouldn't say it's something where I'd say, YES THAT'S ME, but I wouldn't say it's entirely inaccurate, either. 

*Sixes hold on to the belief and experience of themselves as weak and vulnerable to attack, while holding on to the ego ideal of being devoted and loyal to a person or cause*
No, I can't say I relate to this at all, really. 

*Sevens hold on to the belief and felt sense of themselves as being outside of the natural unfoldment of things--hence the need to map and plan--and hold on to the ego ideal of being okay and having it together*
The idea of feeling okay and having it together, yeah, I can relate to that, but not so much feeling outside the natural unfoldment of things. I think if anything, my issue is more of how I am too willing to try to be in charge of it. 

*Eights hold on to the belief and experience of themselves as having been wronged and meddled with, and hold on to the ego ideal of being powerful, strong, and unassailable"*
Yes, I relate, because I have experiential understanding of what this means. Especially the part about feeling like you've been wronged. I can't say I consciously think or desire or strive towards feeling like I must be strong or to cultivate such an image; it's more that it's a matter of suppressing what I experience to be weak.


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## Chesire Tower (Jan 19, 2013)

J Squirrel said:


> The Typeless Wonder said:
> 
> 
> > Fives, as we will explore in more depth, hold on to the belief and felt sense of themselves as isolated and cut off, ultimately separate, and hold on to the ego ideal of being knowledgeable.


Yep, me in a nutshell.
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I can relate to all the descriptions except for 9 and 3 which is weird because I relate to so much of the nine description - perhaps, this interpretation has been taken out of context? These descriptions however do help to cement my core, wing and heart type. Is it actually possible to so strongly possess the behaviors of a type and totally not relate to its description?




I know that I act most like a 5 (w4), then a 9 and last , a 2 but I definitely don't ever view myself as either unimportant or undeserving of attention. I do, however, have a great deal of trouble motivating myself to be self-assertive (which is not at all the same as being plain old assertive) and acting in my own benefit I do possess something like existential guilt - kind of like Kafka, another 5w4 and the author of my favourite book, _The Trial. _I don't see my gut type as either 1 - not self-disciplined enough nor 8 - couldn't be bothered to waste my energy arguing much of the time; so it has to be 9 _sans_ any of those beliefs.


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