# Just another "Do I use Fi vs. Fe" thread.



## Chronicles (Jun 1, 2014)

Yes yes I know. There's a billion of these out there but a new one always seems to bring a fresh perspective. I would like help deciding/confirming whether I use Fi or Fe. Hopefully the examples I give can help some other confused soul figure out which one they are as well. I'm really bad at wording things but I'll try to make it as coherent as possible.

Fi is internal, subjective, personal, and more about the individual.
Fe is external, objective, general, and more about the group.

I have trouble deciding which one I am since I can relate to both. Here's a list of things that I do that are both Fi and Fe. I'll try to avoid any stereotypes about Fi or Fe.

-I often know what I'm feeling
-I have friends of different beliefs and am not bothered by it (unless it's something really important)
-However, I do expect us to come to some sort of consensus about things and feel unsettled when we can't
-If someone is telling me something about themselves, I'll always interject with a "Oh I can relate to that! That happened to me too and then this and that..". I hear it's something a lot of Fi doms tend to do and I've noticed it in the Fi doms I know as well. I didn't know it made the other person feel invalidated, but now that I do, I try to keep it to a minimum or stop it all together.
-I know what others are feeling or thinking
-I tend to feel other people's emotions as if they were my own such as seeing a person get insulted and then feeling a pang of hurt myself or seeing someone cry and then starting to cry myself
-I don't really believe the majority opinion is always/usually right
-My opinions are too easily affected by others, which annoys me because I want to be able to have an opinion of my own
-I usually don't have an opinion on a lot of things until I hear someone else's opinion on it or am asked to give my opinion.
-I will think badly of a person if they violated a value I thought was important, but would throw the value aside if this person needed my help
-I tend to bring a conversation back to myself
-I don't like taking sides

Perhaps giving an example of how I come to some of my opinions could help, although it's not the same way all the time. Most of the time it's been things I've been told were right and wrong, but I'll evaluate it afterwards to see if there's a better way of looking at it.

So let's say there is something I've been asked to give an opinion on. I'll first take on whatever the majority seems to think is the right thing. Later on, I'll think that maybe the majority is wrong. I'll look at how this "opinion" affects the people involved. I'll try to come up with various situations for when this opinion is right and when it is wrong but since right and wrong is so subjective, each situation can be seen as either right or wrong. Since now I'm probably stuck between two options, I'll choose one option and go through all the situations and then choose the other option and go through all the situations to see which one seems to make the most number of people happy (not always joyful but just what gives the most number of people peace) and makes the most sense. Then I'll choose the one that resulted in the most gain.

I'm sorry for the post being so self-centered. I hope someone else could relate to it as well. So tell me, what do you think? Am I Fi or Fe? Do you have any questions that might help one determine which one they are? If anyone else is also plagued by the same question, go ahead and ask here. Don't feel like you're hijacking the thread. Thanks in advance :happy:


----------



## perpetuallyreticent (Sep 24, 2014)

Seems more Fe than Fi from the examples you gave. Even Fe users will _know how they feel_ and have personal values they hold close, but you definitely seem more Fe after reading this,



> -My opinions are too easily affected by others, which annoys me because I want to be able to have an opinion of my own


Now, time for a few questions. 

If you were in a situation with a friend where you were asked for your honest opinion on something, and you knew before hand that your opinion could possibly offend them, would you try to avoid answering them if at all possible or would you ultimately give your opinion anyway? The way in which you give it doesn't matter, just that you ultimately feel the need to or not.

Also, if you happen to use Fe instead of Fi, what type are you considering? INFJ?


----------



## pretense (Jan 2, 2013)

Sounds like Fe, Ti, and Ni.

But absolutely Fe. No doubt about it.


----------



## Chronicles (Jun 1, 2014)

perpetuallyreticent said:


> Seems more Fe than Fi from the examples you gave. Even Fe users will _know how they feel_ and have personal values they hold close, but you definitely seem more Fe after reading this,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well this one is pretty hard to answer. I don't know. I'll avoid it as much as possible. I'll end up lying to them saying something is great when I don't really think it is, although I'll try to convince myself that what I just said is true. Sometimes I'll tell the truth though, although I'll sugar-coat it heavily. If it was something like "Do I look fat in this dress?" I'd probably say "No, I think you look great!" even if I think they do look a little pudgy. I might suggest something else if it's really bad by saying "That dress looks gorgeous! But I think you'd really drop jaws with this one" just so they don't embarrass themselves later on. Also, I was considering INFJ originally but I'm thinking that I might even be a very introverted extrovert so an ENFJ or ENFP perhaps although ENFJs are too outgoing to be me. The reason why I thought maybe I was an extrovert was because I feel better and a more uplifted after talking to people. I still need a lot of alone time though.

Additional info: 

Although I do have the Fe traits, I might be Fi who developed Fe. I would say that I would feel the need to tell the truth even if I don't always say it. I'll try to make sure I don't judge anyone or think badly of them, although it might happen in the end anyway. Or maybe I developed Fi since I was around a Fi dom for two years and took on a lot of her traits, behaviors, and values. She was very straight-forward and assertive. She would tell the truth and she believed that talking behind people's backs was wrong and I took on a few of these traits. I was also around a Ti dom for a long time. She was very logical, assertive, and straight-forward with her opinions, which ended up in me (again) taking on a lot of the same opinions as her. It might not even be Fe and simply just me not having enough confidence in my own opinions. I am tactful most of the time, but I've been quite blunt-talking sometimes (more like rarely but it still happens), to the point of being insensitive. Sometimes I care too much about what I want and might neglect what someone else wants. If this helps, I tend to hold back a lot until I feel it is too much and then I might "blow up" on the person. I'll quickly apologize and admit I was wrong right after though. I'm learning to be more assertive so recently I've been more blunt, straight-forward, and a little selfish and asking for what I want when I want it rather than holding it back all the time. I'm sorry, you didn't even ask for most of this but I thought maybe it could paint a clearer picture of which I use.

Thank you so much for replying though :happy: I really appreciate it.


----------



## Chronicles (Jun 1, 2014)

manofgod69 said:


> Sounds like Fe, Ti, and Ni.
> 
> But absolutely Fe. No doubt about it.


Thank you for answering :happy: but can you explain to me why you think Ti and Ni as well?


----------



## pretense (Jan 2, 2013)

Chronicles said:


> Thank you for answering :happy: but can you explain to me why you think Ti and Ni as well?


Well, I think there was thinking in that. Of course there will always be thinking involved in cognition but it was more explicit than that. I don't need to rely on the logic that you must use your thinking function to some degree to do what you have done here, because it was quite clear that you used thinking. We don't need to over complicate it, you made logical judgements. I say it is Ti and not Te because you are obviously Fe. I don't feel that I have a good enough understanding of the ways in which Ti and Te manifest to make that judgement on such a small amount of information. Although the balancing of people's feelings might be a Ti thing, with Fe obviously being heavily involved. That balancing of feelings also gave me the idea that you are Ni. Trying to predict the future like that, seems pretty Ni right?


----------



## Chronicles (Jun 1, 2014)

manofgod69 said:


> Well, I think there was thinking in that. Of course there will always be thinking involved in cognition but it was more explicit than that. I don't need to rely on the logic that you must use your thinking function to some degree to do what you have done here, because it was quite clear that you used thinking. We don't need to over complicate it, you made logical judgements. I say it is Ti and not Te because you are obviously Fe. I don't feel that I have a good enough understanding of the ways in which Ti and Te manifest to make that judgement on such a small amount of information. Although the balancing of people's feelings might be a Ti thing, with Fe obviously being heavily involved. That balancing of feelings also gave me the idea that you are Ni. Trying to predict the future like that, seems pretty Ni right?


Ohhh okay, that makes sense. Thank you


----------



## owlboy (Oct 28, 2010)

say 2 of your friends are fighting. let's call them A and B.

A thinks B did something really wrong, but you don't really have any strong opinion either way.

Do you: 

1] Take A's side and find your perception of B changing, out of a sense of loyalty to A, because you have more investment in your relationship with A anyway; 

or 

2] remain neutral and treat both of them exactly the same as you did before the issue arose, because their issue is theirs to sort out by themselves, and B has not done anything to you personally or crossed any of your own moral lines so you see no reason to take sides.


* *






1 is Fe. 2 is Fi.

I have tried explaining the Fe view to Fi-doms before and they don't get it. Likewise I don't understand their view. I have always figured that one shows their committment to their friends by demonstrating ''allegiance'' when needed -- Fi's don't think this way. 

They can offer emotional support of course, but from their pov everyone's relationship issues are ultimately their own to sort out. To an Fi, *not* getting ''entangled'' the way Fe does is true loyalty, and respect for each person's unique situation.


----------



## Chronicles (Jun 1, 2014)

owlboy said:


> say 2 of your friends are fighting. let's call them A and B.
> 
> A thinks B did something really wrong, but you don't really have any strong opinion either way.
> 
> ...


I have a tendency to side with whoever I'm closer to (I've been told as such as well). My perception of person B might change slightly, but if I think that person A is getting angry over something that isn't really worth getting worked up over then I'd more likely just tell them that although I think they are right, it's something that doesn't really matter because here are the benefits (to person A) of person B doing such a thing. I tend to butt into peoples problems too much but could this be more of a Fi approach? To try to get the other person to get over their anger over such a thing?


----------



## Ksara (Feb 13, 2014)

owlboy said:


> say 2 of your friends are fighting. let's call them A and B.
> 
> A thinks B did something really wrong, but you don't really have any strong opinion either way.
> 
> ...



Thanks, If I take this test as being strongly indicative of Fe vs Fi, then I defiantly prefer Fi


----------



## Ksara (Feb 13, 2014)

Chronicles said:


> I have a tendency to side with whoever I'm closer to (I've been told as such as well). My perception of person B might change slightly, but if I think that person A is getting angry over something that isn't really worth getting worked up over then I'd more likely just tell them that although I think they are right, it's something that doesn't really matter because here are the benefits (to person A) of person B doing such a thing. I tend to butt into peoples problems too much but could this be more of a Fi approach? To try to get the other person to get over their anger over such a thing?



My ENFP get's involved because someone is upset because he can help them because he knows how they feel, but also because his Ne links together every potential situation and this person's problem will at some point affect him, so helping them helps him.
He may also get involved if he has a close bond with someone, he wants to keep the relationship between them and him close (and also encourage this with others).

It is not about getting someone to get over their anger, it is to close the gap between him and the other person's relational distance or for self preservation of ensuring the problem doesn't affect him later on.


----------



## Chronicles (Jun 1, 2014)

Ksara said:


> My ENFP get's involved because someone is upset because he can help them because he knows how they feel, but also because his Ne links together every potential situation and this person's problem will at some point affect him, so helping them helps him.
> He may also get involved if he has a close bond with someone, he wants to keep the relationship between them and him close (and also encourage this with others).
> 
> It is not about getting someone to get over their anger, it is to close the gap between him and the other person's relational distance or for self preservation of ensuring the problem doesn't affect him later on.


This is very interesting. Thank you for sharing this. My first response to any kind of conflict on the outside is to solve it although the reason is because hearing someone arguing with another person or yelling always makes me feel bad inside. Does your ENFP do this because of the same reason as myself or is it something else? Or am I asking a question you already answered?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## owlboy (Oct 28, 2010)

Chronicles said:


> I have a tendency to side with whoever I'm closer to (I've been told as such as well). My perception of person B might change slightly, but if I think that person A is getting angry over something that isn't really worth getting worked up over then I'd more likely just tell them that although I think they are right, it's something that doesn't really matter because here are the benefits (to person A) of person B doing such a thing. I tend to butt into peoples problems too much but could this be more of a Fi approach? To try to get the other person to get over their anger over such a thing?


Depends what you define as ''butting in too much'', I suppose. 

Fe types [especially strong Fe types] see social relations as a sort of ''economy'' where one accrues ''social capital'' by maintaining their allegiances to the people they choose. They maintain these allegiances by demonstration, and by offering their opinion on the overall social climate as things are happening. [gossip and drama is a natural result of this].

One can't NOT participate in this ''economy'' because whatever is affecting one person will affect _everyone_. 

INFPs and ISFPs in particular -- and in my experience, anyway -- don't get this, in fact they actively resist it. They see themselves [and everyone else] in a very individualistic way. The ''social economy'' of Fe types, from their pov, obliterates people's ability to be their authentic individual self and to resolve their issues in a way that serves them as individual persons.

[Fe understands the individuality of people in a way different to Fi. ''Individuality'' doesn't come from the inside, but from the actions you choose to take and their effect on the social economy.]

Hope this makes sense, I'm tired and on a train right now.

edit: they can be tricky to distinguish because Fi and Fe values can align, but they are always coming from a different place.


----------



## Chronicles (Jun 1, 2014)

owlboy said:


> Depends what you define as ''butting in too much'', I suppose.
> 
> Fe types [especially strong Fe types] see social relations as a sort of ''economy'' where one accrues ''social capital'' by maintaining their allegiances to the people they choose. They maintain these allegiances by demonstration, and by offering their opinion on the overall social climate as things are happening. [gossip and drama is a natural result of this].
> 
> ...


You should get some rest and reply when you're feeling a little more awake. I think I sort of understand but the social economy thing confuses me. I don't really understand what you mean by something affecting one person affecting everyone. I thought it was the other way around with something that affects everyone affects every single one. I think what I said was too obvious. Do you mean something along the lines of someone acting out of line ruins the good atmosphere of the group? I'm not too sure I can relate to group stuff as I tend to only speak in one on one or trio group settings. Unless the classroom counts? If you don't mind me asking, could you provide some examples of the social economy playing out in real life as well as an example of fi vs. fe individuality?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Ksara (Feb 13, 2014)

Chronicles said:


> This is very interesting. Thank you for sharing this. My first response to any kind of conflict on the outside is to solve it although the reason is because hearing someone arguing with another person or yelling always makes me feel bad inside. Does your ENFP do this because of the same reason as myself or is it something else? Or am I asking a question you already answered?



I think Ne has a greater influence. He sees him helping someone puts them on a different path. For example someone is upset about something, they then get behind the wheel of a car, then because they are upset they drive irrational, the they're in an accident or they upset another driver, this other driver then gets home and upsets his wife...and on it goes.
If he steps in and helps the upset person feel better then they don't drive irratic, avoid an accident or upsetting other drivers... and so on...
Not to mention not helping someone could impact him latter on.
(gotta love Ne)

I think he can also help someone because he feels bad, however he has little sympathy for someone if they are upset over something he considers insignificant (such as someone complaining about things being too muddy when they go camping). He knows how they feel about it (He has been there himself but learn't to move past this barrier) but may think they need to get over it and move past it and not let it hold them back. He has been through a lot already in life.

I think being more extroverted than an INFP he can also be more confrontational, he will be assertive of his values, stand up for someone who is unfairly treated, and will not let someone disrespect him or others.

Just keep in mind this may not be all ENFPs, and is my observation/interpretation.


----------



## Ksara (Feb 13, 2014)

@owlboy

Just to add what you said (and correct me if I'm wrong)

I think Fe is more about playing roles so to speak, and your role is externally defined. Someone could be a mother, a sister, a Co-worker, a boss, a friend.
Now all these social positions have a different set of rules that goven what is socially acceptable. A person fills these roles by the context of their relationship between others, but also how they act. One example, someone is loyal to their friends. Why, because they are their friends and the rules that define what that relationship is is to be loyal.

Fi doesn't care about this. A person is a unique individual who defines who they are from within and what they value. Just because your boss is you boss doesn't mean squat. If they are someone of worth then they matter. If the Fi person disagrees with their boss they will raise the issue, even if it is considered inappropriate from a more Fe perspective. Fi will do what is right for them and what they value. They are more concerned with how important other people are to them, what they mean to them. To show they care they will follow their own values to express this to someone, not follow a set of social rules that define a particular relationship.


----------



## General Lee Awesome (Sep 28, 2014)

mostly Fe, but it really depends on how healthy your personality is.


----------



## owlboy (Oct 28, 2010)

Ksara said:


> @owlboy
> 
> Just to add what you said (and correct me if I'm wrong)
> 
> ...


Absolutely. I actually wrote something similar on my blog a few days ago, not sure if I ever posted it here:



> While Fi sees authenticity as being rooted in one's committment to their personal values, Fe sees authenticity in one's comittment to their particular social role and how their comittment to that role impacts the social climate around them. ''Mother'', ''father'', ''teacher'', ''friend'', ''lover'' etc are all specific social roles that come with socially-defined expectations.
> 
> ''bomb-throwing anarchist freedom fighter'' or ''sh-- stirring troll'' count as ''roles'', which is why it is wrong to assume Fe-types are conformist sheep that will do anything to maintain the status quo


----------



## Chronicles (Jun 1, 2014)

Ksara said:


> I think Ne has a greater influence. He sees him helping someone puts them on a different path. For example someone is upset about something, they then get behind the wheel of a car, then because they are upset they drive irrational, the they're in an accident or they upset another driver, this other driver then gets home and upsets his wife...and on it goes.
> If he steps in and helps the upset person feel better then they don't drive irratic, avoid an accident or upsetting other drivers... and so on...
> Not to mention not helping someone could impact him latter on.
> (gotta love Ne)
> ...


Wow that Ne though. Your ENFP seems to have thought it through pretty well. I'm leaning more on Fi for myself because I read a couple of old posts of mine and they sounded pretty Fi to me. Although that was a very emotional time in my life so I'm not sure about how accurate it is. What about yourself? Do you lean on fi or fe and how does it play out for you? I realize that your type at the moment is unknown, but try to contribute some if your own experience as well. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Ksara (Feb 13, 2014)

Chronicles said:


> Wow that Ne though. Your ENFP seems to have thought it through pretty well. I'm leaning more on Fi for myself because I read a couple of old posts of mine and they sounded pretty Fi to me. Although that was a very emotional time in my life so I'm not sure about how accurate it is. What about yourself? Do you lean on fi or fe and how does it play out for you? I realize that your type at the moment is unknown, but try to contribute some if your own experience as well.


I don't feel 100% certain but I think I may belong more to the Fi/Te dynamic over the Ti/Fe dynamic.

Keeping it in the context of feeling.

I find I generally know what I'm feeling and tend to rationalize it. That is, if I'm feeling unhappy about something silly, and I rationalize it is no benefit to me to be upset, or it really is silly to be upset over it, I'll ignore it and move on from it.
Say jealousy for example, I find it is an odd feeling, when I have it I know that it is my own insecurities and I have no reason not to be happy for the other person. I see it as an ugly emotion, leads to bad things and people being hateful of others who haven't actually done any wrong.

Same for if someone attempts to upset me, if I rationalise it as it isn't my fault or my wrong doing, then I'm not upset. Again, if it isn't true then I have no issue with the person throwing insults.
(If it is my fault then I do feel deeply sorry...)

What I have noticed is that since hitting my early 20s my feelings have become more intense.
The show 1000 ways to die, if I watched it 5 years ago would have found it interesting. Today I can not watch it. I find that It is quite disrespectful, making fun of people who have died. Yes they may have been stupid, however a lose of life is not a joke, especially to the people who witnessed the event, for family and for friends. Even if the whole world found it acceptable, I will still leave the room.

I actually don't enjoy this much. I prefer a stable mood than strong emotions.

If I smile it's because I'm happy. If I'm upset I prefer to keep this to myself.

Ethically speaking I prefer to be fair to others, treat others how I would like to be treated, avoid lying.
But if I do tell an untruth to keep others happy it is because I'm avoiding the emotional turmoil. I don't like it. not surprisining as I'm a type 9 enneagram.

I also tend to write with a lot of "I's"
I think this at least indicates introversions, perhaps even Fi. Perhaps all of what I've said in context of my feelings is along the lines of Fi.

Do I feel the emotions of others? Yes, sometimes I prefer not to especially when I see others in misfortune. I guess this however keeps my moral compass inline, ensuring I do no harm to others.



I have had people suggest I could be INFJ, or INTP, that I seem to use Ti or that they don't sense Te. That I come across as pleasant so perhaps Fe, but then other situations I describe as Fi.


----------



## owlboy (Oct 28, 2010)

Chronicles said:


> You should get some rest and reply when you're feeling a little more awake. I think I sort of understand but the social economy thing confuses me. I don't really understand what you mean by something affecting one person affecting everyone. I thought it was the other way around with something that affects everyone affects every single one. I think what I said was too obvious. Do you mean something along the lines of someone acting out of line ruins the good atmosphere of the group? I'm not too sure I can relate to group stuff as I tend to only speak in one on one or trio group settings. Unless the classroom counts? If you don't mind me asking, could you provide some examples of the social economy playing out in real life as well as an example of fi vs. fe individuality?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





Chronicles said:


> If you don't mind me asking, could you provide some examples of the social economy playing out in real life as well as an example of fi vs. fe individuality?


Fi: People are individuated by having a perspective that is unique to them [I think? I'm not an Fi user]
Fe: People's individuality is determined by the social roles they choose to play and the effect of their actions [''choose'' is an important word here]

social economy... uhh watch any episode of Community I guess, that show is basically a study in Fe. [all the main characters are high to low Fe types except Britta and Pierce].

Also ''Games People Play'' by Eric Berne is a very Fe-ish perspective of relationships.


----------



## Bugs (May 13, 2014)

Chronicles said:


> Yes yes I know. There's a billion of these out there but a new one always seems to bring a fresh perspective. I would like help deciding/confirming whether I use Fi or Fe. Hopefully the examples I give can help some other confused soul figure out which one they are as well. I'm really bad at wording things but I'll try to make it as coherent as possible.
> 
> Fi is internal, subjective, personal, and more about the individual.
> Fe is external, objective, general, and more about the group.
> ...



Truth is everyone experiences some degree of both. So this confusion is commonplace. Feeling is also misunderstood as emotional. 

Best way I understand is by thinking of the outside world in relation to myself. Also , by understanding Te is on an axis with Fi and Ti is on an axis with Fe. For myself I prefer Ti-Fe . This means that I don't really seek to change the world around me to conform to my understanding of it. Rather , my inward logic seeks to merely understand the world as it is and my Fe then tries to adapt me to fit best in it. Fi-Te is the opposite. Te tries to modify the external world to match a set of inward values. It's not really you who needs the adjusting but the surroundings around you.


----------



## Chronicles (Jun 1, 2014)

owlboy said:


> Fi: People are individuated by having a perspective that is unique to them [I think? I'm not an Fi user]
> Fe: People's individuality is determined by the social roles they choose to play and the effect of their actions [''choose'' is an important word here]
> 
> social economy... uhh watch any episode of Community I guess, that show is basically a study in Fe. [all the main characters are high to low Fe types except Britta and Pierce].
> ...


 @Ksara and @owlboy, I think I get it now. I might be wrong so correct me.

Fe individuality is more based on what role they choose to take on which depends on them thus it's individual.
Fi individuality depends more on what they value and how they act on it and since it depends on the Fi user, it's individual.

So Fe in a way expresses their individuality in a more "organized" way where as Fi expresses it in more of a fluid and and less structured way.

So a Fe example is the oldest sibling in a family taking on the role of "the oldest child" and then this oldest child does something along the lines of resolving conflict between younger siblings, advising younger siblings on what to do and not to do, protecting and defending younger siblings, and thinking that they are responsible for their younger siblings because that is their job as "the oldest child". Or am I wrong about this?

So would that mean that Fe, in it's group of friends, takes on a specific role such as "the good listener", "the intellectual one", "the quiet one", "the rebel", "the calm one", "the gregarious one", etc. or am I wrong about this? Does Fe recognize these roles in others as well? Is Fe always the one who chooses the role or does Fe sometimes end up with the role because how they expressed themselves made up how they were received by others and in a way created this role for themselves without directly choosing it?

I can't exactly think of a Fi example.

Can't Fi do this as well though? If Fi can, then how does Fi do it? If Fi can't, then what exactly does Fi do? I read some INFPs who mentioned they have different "masks" for different people. Like a certain way of expressing themselves when around friends vs. acquaintances vs. teachers vs. parents vs. etc. How is this different from Fe roles?


----------



## Ksara (Feb 13, 2014)

Chronicles said:


> @Ksara and @owlboy, I think I get it now. I might be wrong so correct me.
> 
> Fe individuality is more based on what role they choose to take on which depends on them thus it's individual.
> Fi individuality depends more on what they value and how they act on it and since it depends on the Fi user, it's individual.
> ...



What you're saying about Fe seems correct.
I don't see why an Fe user wouldn't take on one or more of those roles that defines their friendship.
I think it goes both ways, that is, Fe will choose what role it wants to fulfill, but will let others define it also. My reasoning on this is that it is extroverted. That is Fe will express itself into the world, how this is received by others then helps the Fe user know what role they have. A basic example, a Fe user does something good to someone. Now they may do this because their role is to be a good person (they choose this), but also how this action is received by the other person, say they are happy and excited, also tells the Fe user they are a good person. If the person responded negatively then the Fe user may be confused (they thought they were a good person), and may get upset (well I must be a bad person or they think I'm a bad person), get angry (they are ungreatful that I was good to them), or change how they express their goodness (this is probably where Fi sees what they consider fake...)

From Lenore Thompson, she defines extroversion in general as adjusting their values to the world, and introversion as finding or creating a space that aligns to their inner values.

Now also with introverted functions, they are within and private, not easily shared. If the introvert can not find or create their space that aligns to them, making themselves feel comfortable, they may put on a mask so to speak. That is, their extroverted face to deal with the world. Can't do it with the introverted function and so must engage the auxiliary to communicate.
The thing is that this extroverting does not feel as natural as their dominant mode of introverting. When in a particular environment they are forced to act a particular way to get along with others, they feel fake. An Fi Dom will feel they are being unfaithful to their Fi where as a Fe Dom will feel the situation defines them.

Both are capable of adjusting to others, Fi will do it for it's own reasons (perhaps they value people's happiness) where as Fe does it because they want to fit into a social role (to be a good friend).

The other thing to note is Fi may deal with other people differently, this is not because one is a friend vs acquaintance, but because of their relational distance between them and that person. They will act differently to someone they are close to compared to someone they barely know. The way they act may be to increase or decrease this relational gap, bring someone closer or push them away. This being irrelevant to the social roles that person fulfills.
Fi may also engage people differently who are close to them to make their interaction more personalized (or special). They are treating others as individuals who like/dislike different things.


----------



## Chronicles (Jun 1, 2014)

Ksara said:


> What you're saying about Fe seems correct.
> I don't see why an Fe user wouldn't take on one or more of those roles that defines their friendship.
> I think it goes both ways, that is, Fe will choose what role it wants to fulfill, but will let others define it also. My reasoning on this is that it is extroverted. That is Fe will express itself into the world, how this is received by others then helps the Fe user know what role they have. A basic example, a Fe user does something good to someone. Now they may do this because their role is to be a good person (they choose this), but also how this action is received by the other person, say they are happy and excited, also tells the Fe user they are a good person. If the person responded negatively then the Fe user may be confused (they thought they were a good person), and may get upset (well I must be a bad person or they think I'm a bad person), get angry (they are ungreatful that I was good to them), or change how they express their goodness (this is probably where Fi sees what they consider fake...)
> 
> ...


I'm kind of leaning more on the Fe social roles for this one. It confuses me a bit though. I thought Fi was the one that had something they wanted to be and decided to act in that way. Is this Fi ideal self different than the Fe social roles? Does Fe tend to treat most people similarly or groups of people similarly such as strangers being treated the same way as other strangers and friends being treated the same as other friends albiet a little different because people are different and slight adjustment is needed? Or is Fi more the one to stay the same on the outside to groups of people? Would Fe be more likely to treat a person they dislike in the same friendly manner as their friends and Fi treat the person just as they felt about them or can both be possible for the person? Am I mixing up the two? It happened with a girl I knew. She didn't like me and she made it obvious while I treated her just as I always had despite the way that I felt inside being different. Does Fe tend to put on kind of a show at times because they're trying to fulfill their social roles? Sorry for bombarding you with so many questions.


----------



## Ksara (Feb 13, 2014)

Bugs said:


> Truth is everyone experiences some degree of both. So this confusion is commonplace. Feeling is also misunderstood as emotional.
> 
> Best way I understand is by thinking of the outside world in relation to myself. Also , by understanding Te is on an axis with Fi and Ti is on an axis with Fe. For myself I prefer Ti-Fe . This means that I don't really seek to change the world around me to conform to my understanding of it. Rather , my inward logic seeks to merely understand the world as it is and my Fe then tries to adapt me to fit best in it. Fi-Te is the opposite. Te tries to modify the external world to match a set of inward values. It's not really you who needs the adjusting but the surroundings around you.


I don't think it is as simple as Fe/Ti understand and fits in vs Te/Fi understand what's right and make it happen for all cases.
A Si or Ni Dom who favour the Te/Fi axis may not take up the quest to do good or force the world to comfor to their values as their primary sense of being is to perceive not act.
I also think a Fe Dom is also capable of forcing change on a system. If someone is behaving inappropriately they may attempt to correct this behaviour.
How you have described it I think fits Ti>Fe quite well (well you're an ENTP, of cause you know )


----------



## Ksara (Feb 13, 2014)

Chronicles said:


> I'm kind of leaning more on the Fe social roles for this one. It confuses me a bit though. I thought Fi was the one that had something they wanted to be and decided to act in that way. Is this Fi ideal self different than the Fe social roles? Does Fe tend to treat most people similarly or groups of people similarly such as strangers being treated the same way as other strangers and friends being treated the same as other friends albiet a little different because people are different and slight adjustment is needed? Or is Fi more the one to stay the same on the outside to groups of people? Would Fe be more likely to treat a person they dislike in the same friendly manner as their friends and Fi treat the person just as they felt about them or can both be possible for the person? Am I mixing up the two? It happened with a girl I knew. She didn't like me and she made it obvious while I treated her just as I always had despite the way that I felt inside being different. Does Fe tend to put on kind of a show at times because they're trying to fulfill their social roles? Sorry for bombarding you with so many questions.


Yes lots of questions, I'll do my best 

I am speculating here (and could very well be making stuff up...)

I think both are capable of behaving the same or differently across a range of people. What is different is the reason behind it all.


Yes the Fe social role is different To the Fi ideal self. Fe acts as a good person to be a good person, Fi is a good person and so acts as a good person. Fe is externally defined, Fi internally defined


Fe may treat people in a similar social role the same, however these roles can be continually evolving. For example a strong Fe user meets a stranger. They will act appropriately for the encounter. However as the communication progresses how the stranger now interacts with the Fe user may suggest a new role (say a friend). The Fe user may then adjust their behaviour to be more appropriate to the context.

A Fe user may keep a smile on their face even if they truely dislike the person because they still want the friendship.
They may act horribly because the see the other person as an enemy.
They may even act a certain way to give others a particular impression of themselves.

Fi will be true to themselves as much as possible. They don't want to pretend. But again it all depends on their inner values. If they don't see a person as worth their time, then they aren't going to be friends with them. If they value respecting others, then they may even show respect to someone who treats them badly. It comes down to core beliefs and ideas, their own moral code to follow.


----------



## Chronicles (Jun 1, 2014)

Ksara said:


> Yes lots of questions, I'll do my best
> 
> I am speculating here (and could very well be making stuff up...)
> 
> ...


I guess I relate to Fe more when it comes to this. I think you explained it really well, Fi vs. Fe is a lot clearer. Thank you for explaining all of this :happy: Is there anything you might want to discuss?


----------



## Ksara (Feb 13, 2014)

Chronicles said:


> I guess I relate to Fe more when it comes to this. I think you explained it really well, Fi vs. Fe is a lot clearer. Thank you for explaining all of this :happy: Is there anything you might want to discuss?


No worries 

I think I relate more to Fi.

Though when I think about it I do oppose Fe and being defined by a social role.
(hmm Fi or low Fe?)

You would think being able to explain something I would be able to relate it to myself haha.


----------



## The_Wanderer (Jun 13, 2013)

Looks like another INFJ who thinks they're an INFP, yo.


----------



## Chronicles (Jun 1, 2014)

Ksara said:


> No worries
> 
> I think I relate more to Fi.
> 
> ...


Totally xD I can never seem satisfied with one answer though so I think I'll try to think a little deeper about the fi vs. fe thing and see if fe really does relate to me. Do you need any help deciding fi or fe? I can try to help to the best of my ability even though I might not end up being of too much help. If you don't mind me asking, what types are you considering?


----------



## Chronicles (Jun 1, 2014)

The_Wanderer said:


> Looks like another INFJ who thinks they're an INFP, yo.


I thought it was more like "looks like another INFP who thinks they're an INFJ".  Just kidding around. Do you perhaps know why an INFJ might confuse themselves for an INFP?


----------



## Ksara (Feb 13, 2014)

Chronicles said:


> Totally xD I can never seem satisfied with one answer though so I think I'll try to think a little deeper about the fi vs. fe thing and see if fe really does relate to me. Do you need any help deciding fi or fe? I can try to help to the best of my ability even though I might not end up being of too much help. If you don't mind me asking, what types are you considering?


Ha I hijacked your thread >
Haha

I would love to accept help, however I am always skeptical (nothing personal. Ultimately my type is for me to decide)

Types I have considered, INFJ, INTP, INFP, INTJ and a few others.
In the general mbti dichotomies sense I'm IxxJ.
I believe N over S and T over F, but then again I can take a test and get the results I'm looking for.

Right now I'm considering the functions Fi/Te and Ni/Se and the types that fall under these.
People have suggested I use Ne, I relate to connecting the the dots but not with possibilities. So I could be confusing Ne/Si and Ni/Se.


----------



## LostFavor (Aug 18, 2011)

Chronicles said:


> -If someone is telling me something about themselves, I'll always interject with a "Oh I can relate to that! That happened to me too and then this and that..". I hear it's something a lot of Fi doms tend to do and I've noticed it in the Fi doms I know as well. I didn't know it made the other person feel invalidated, but now that I do, I try to keep it to a minimum or stop it all together.


That... does not universally make people feel invalidated. I don't know where you got that idea, but... that's just... I don't know. I have never heard that before, that people feel invalidated by someone relating to them.

I mean, if you end up talking about yourself to such an extent that it seems like you don't care about what they had to say, then I guess I can see where the problem is. But... in general. I mean... I've not heard of that being a thing.


Also, you are an Fe-dom. 

How does that make you feel?


----------



## MuChApArAdOx (Jan 24, 2011)

You only need to ask yourself a few simple questions

1. Can I articulate my core feelings on cue without reflecting internally for sometime beforehand.? Do you have to internally check in , sometimes minutes, hours, even days in order to get an accurate reading of your core feelings.? Do you always understand what you're feeling ?

If you said yes, and no to internally check in, you don't process using Fi, so therefore you use Fe. Fe doesn't need time, they naturally know what to say and know how they are feeling at any given time, where Fi needs this time - It is basically impossible for Fi to articulate how they feel on the spot, not their core feelings. Try not to confuse this with emotions, as feelings aren't the same as emotions, we all use emotions to express ourselves.


----------



## owlboy (Oct 28, 2010)

MuChApArAdOx said:


> You only need to ask yourself a few simple questions
> 
> 1. Can I articulate my core feelings on cue without reflecting internally for sometime beforehand.? Do you have to internally check in , sometimes minutes, hours, even days in order to get an accurate reading of your core feelings.? Do you always understand what you're feeling ?
> 
> If you said yes, and no to internally check in, you don't process using Fi, so therefore you use Fe. Fe doesn't need time, they naturally know what to say and know how they are feeling at any given time, where Fi needs this time - It is basically impossible for Fi to articulate how they feel on the spot, not their core feelings. Try not to confuse this with emotions, as feelings aren't the same as emotions, we all use emotions to express ourselves.


Your emotional state and your ability to read your own emotions is in constant flux [ie severely depressed or PTSD people often can't get a grasp on their emotions, or can be completely numb and apathetic, regardless of type] so you can't use ''emotions'' as a gauge for typing people.

Also lemme just say as a tertiary Fe user I never have _any_ idea what I'm feeling until I find myself acting on my feelings, generally to my embarrassment.


----------



## MuChApArAdOx (Jan 24, 2011)

owlboy said:


> Your emotional state and your ability to read your own emotions is in constant flux [ie severely depressed or PTSD people often can't get a grasp on their emotions, or can be completely numb and apathetic, regardless of type] so you can't use ''emotions'' as a gauge for typing people.
> 
> Also lemme just say as a tertiary Fe user I never have _any_ idea what I'm feeling until I find myself acting on my feelings, generally to my embarrassment.


I didn't say " Emotions " I clearly said feelings. If you had read the post it clearly says DO NOT confuse feeling with emotions, they are not the same. I will say it again, Fi has difficulty understanding their ' CORE FEELINGS " , not their emotions. Ah , this is the difference , you act out on your feelings where Fi keep their feelings hidden.


----------



## owlboy (Oct 28, 2010)

MuChApArAdOx said:


> I didn't say " Emotions " I clearly said feelings. If you had read the post it clearly says DO NOT confuse feeling with emotions, they are not the same. I will say it again, Fi has difficulty understanding their ' CORE FEELINGS " , not their emotions. Ah , this is the difference , you act out on your feelings where Fi keep their feelings hidden.


Okay, calm down.

Yeah, to be honest I skimmed your post because your sentence structure is muddy and almost unreadable. 

My point still stands, people's ability to assess their _feelings_ fluctuates with their mental health. So you can't use ''feels feelings'' in typing people. It's not reliable.

And no, that's not what I said at all. I said I don't know what my feelings _are _until I act on them. That doesn't mean I always act on my feelings.


----------



## Chronicles (Jun 1, 2014)

LostFavor said:


> That... does not universally make people feel invalidated. I don't know where you got that idea, but... that's just... I don't know. I have never heard that before, that people feel invalidated by someone relating to them.
> 
> I mean, if you end up talking about yourself to such an extent that it seems like you don't care about what they had to say, then I guess I can see where the problem is. But... in general. I mean... I've not heard of that being a thing.
> 
> ...


I don't know, I read it somewhere, but it appears a lot. Sorry, maybe invalidated wasn't the word. It's more like they feel like it's becoming about you and like they have to compete to be heard. Kind of like their problem gets lost in your relating to it and now you're talking about you and not them. How does what make me feel? Why do you say Fe-dom? Just curious because I've always thought I was introverted.


----------



## LostFavor (Aug 18, 2011)

Chronicles said:


> I don't know, I read it somewhere, but it appears a lot. Sorry, maybe invalidated wasn't the word. It's more like they feel like it's becoming about you and like they have to compete to be heard. Kind of like their problem gets lost in your relating to it and now you're talking about you and not them. How does what make me feel? Why do you say Fe-dom? Just curious because I've always thought I was introverted.


I wanted to see how you would react to being told what type you are, but I confess your answer didn't tell me much. :tongue:

I do see some Fe-dom in you, but in reality, I'm not so quick to judge someone's type based on a quick impression. 

Honestly, I think the reason Fe-dom popped into my head is because you're reminding me of my ENFJ mother; deftly trying to keep the peace, hold multiple chill conversations, quick to be humble and/or apologetic, and you apparently do a lot of relating things back to yourself.

Plus, you seem more grounded than the average Ni-dom. And more interested in exploring the general side of things than an Si-dom.

Which all may mean nothing. But that's where it came from, more or less.


----------



## Chronicles (Jun 1, 2014)

ButterflyWingsNDayDreams said:


> you're totally an Fi user. Fi users are often mistaken for not being very empathetic, or being narcissistic, which is not true in all cases. We really do care about what others are feeling, and we are very sensitive to the emotions of others around us, but you won't hear us complaining about how all we want to do is make others happy. Pleasing others is not our dying goal, it's just a side effect of the greatness of our company, rather.
> 
> Fe are often out of touch with their own feelings, sometimes completely. They live to put smiles on other people's faces, and often do a very good job of it. Fe doms often have advantages over Fi doms in social situations because they're definitely more engaging to other people. Fi doms, we really don't give a shit about pleasing EVERYONE.
> 
> ...


Although I do see you are trying to clear up the misunderstanding about Fi, I think you're going with the stereotypes of Fe. It did help though, thank you . What if the Fi user had social anxiety? How might that affect them? I tend to care about making everyone happy, but I'm sure Fi could do that as well.


----------



## MuChApArAdOx (Jan 24, 2011)

Chronicles said:


> I think the core feelings example is a little too much though. I don't think anyone would be all hugs and kisses if someone fell on the pavement and they're bleeding. I would probably laugh because it's funny that they fell, but when I see the blood I'd go "Omg are you ok?" Then get some water, wash the area, and tend to the bruise/wound/cut/whatever the thing is. I'd probably help them up and still be laughing because of how funny they looked. Hopefully they'd laugh too. If they didn't, I'd stop.


I would laugh too if I knew it wasn't serious, my example was of a more serious nature, so lets add their head was cut up and some of their teeth were laying on the ground.....I would hug and hold someone I loved who was hurt and in pain, maybe kiss their hand and behave in a vulnerable way, probably cry, where I wouldn't with a stranger. This is Fi, the vulnerable deeper part of our behaviour. To make someone we love feel safe, to verbally express how their pain is our pain etc. With a stranger I wouldn't hold or hug them, I would just make them feel comfortable enough until help arrived.


----------



## owlboy (Oct 28, 2010)

MuChApArAdOx said:


> I would laugh too if I knew it wasn't serious, my example was of a more serious nature, so lets add their head was cut up and some of their teeth were laying on the ground.....I would hug and hold someone I loved who was hurt and in pain, maybe kiss their hand and behave in a vulnerable way, probably cry, where I wouldn't with a stranger. This is Fi, the vulnerable deeper part of our behaviour. To make someone we love feel safe, to verbally express how their pain is our pain etc. With a stranger I wouldn't hold or hug them, I would just make them feel comfortable enough until help arrived.


I don't understand how this demonstrates Fi. That's just basic social etiquette? Getting hugely emotional and intimate with someone you don't know is innappropriate.


----------



## MuChApArAdOx (Jan 24, 2011)

owlboy said:


> I don't understand how this demonstrates Fi. That's just basic social etiquette? Getting hugely emotional and intimate with someone you don't know is innappropriate.


I agree, it isn't appropriate however I've seen Fe users get very emotional/huggy touchy feely with strangers. They don't think about their actions, they just act. In the example I used getting huggy feely was only with the one I loved, not with the stranger. When I visit my relatives after not seeing them for awhile, those who use Fe will be the first to muckle on to me, even those I may not have seen or talked with in years, while those with Fi will wait until we have bonded again.

Fi is a complex function to explain. Fi is about expression with deeper meaning with bonding, intimacy and vulnerability. My philosophy is this. If you have to think about how Fi processes, you don't process using it. Those who process using Fi don't have to think about it, they aren't confused about it, they understand it, and generally don't have to ask about how it feels or about how it's processed, however they will have an extremely hard time trying to explain it to those who don't. Fi isn't related to emotions, It's directly related to feelings with deep meaning that is't related or seen by the external world. Sorry, I can't articulate exactly what that means, as i see it in tones and images that form a particular feeling that can't be explained, however is strongly felt internally.


----------



## owlboy (Oct 28, 2010)

MuChApArAdOx said:


> I agree, it isn't appropriate however I've seen Fe users get very emotional/huggy touchy feely with strangers. They don't think about their actions, they just act.


Oh BS.


----------



## LostFavor (Aug 18, 2011)

Chronicles said:


> Ohhh, now that you put it that way, Ni makes a lot more sense. I can really relate to the point thing. Often I'll get details, details, details and still not get it but then they say just one random thing and then boom I understand everything. The way you explained vision makes more sense now. I thought maybe everyone had something similar though? So if I understood you right, it's kind of like having a vague but sure idea of where you want to go, knowing vaguely but surely how to get there, and slowly perhaps dealing with the specifics as they come along and are needed. I think I'm leaning more on INFJ now but I think I'll let the idea sit for a while until I'm 100% sure, but I'm not sure if I'll really ever be fully sure. Thank you so much for your help LostFavor. You've been very helpful and thank you for being so patient. :happy:


No problem. :happy: I've been studying this stuff on and off for years - it's a pleasure to share what I know about it.

I imagine everyone has some sort of "vision," but I think some types tend toward having a much more distinct vision, or only having a short-term vision. Ni-doms seem to be the most prone to the long-term, vague version of it.


----------



## MuChApArAdOx (Jan 24, 2011)

owlboy said:


> Oh BS.


nope, not BS...I'm specifically speaking about Fe in the primary/Aux position. They are very touchy feely to the point it becomes uncomfortable and unnecessarly/annoying......you as an ENTP would be different, as your Ti would be likely justify it appropriate or not necessary. And if you disliked this person also, you may even be crude in your actions , yep, Fe can be quite crude and vile if they dislike a person.


----------



## owlboy (Oct 28, 2010)

MuChApArAdOx said:


> nope, not BS...I'm specifically speaking about Fe in the primary/Aux position. They are very touchy feely to the point it becomes uncomfortable and unnecessarly/annoying......you as an ENTP would be different, as your Ti would be likely justify it appropriate or not necessary. And if you disliked this person also, you may even be crude in your actions , yep, Fe can be quite crude and vile if they dislike a person.


You're wrong about both Fe and Ti and your weird assumptions about what I would do.


----------



## MuChApArAdOx (Jan 24, 2011)

owlboy said:


> You're wrong about both Fe and Ti and your weird assumptions about what I would do.


I wasn't specifically speaking about you, or how U personally function, my mind was focused more towards ENTP I know , and since I saw you typed ENTP. Basically my Ne is is jumping around a bit, don't take things I say personally. IK, I'm a weirdo :laughing: and strangely enough I'm comfortable in that position.:tongue:


----------



## ButterflyWingsNDayDreams (May 4, 2014)

Chronicles said:


> Although I do see you are trying to clear up the misunderstanding about Fi, I think you're going with the stereotypes of Fe. It did help though, thank you . What if the Fi user had social anxiety? How might that affect them? I tend to care about making everyone happy, but I'm sure Fi could do that as well.


I live with an ESFJ, (dominant in Fe) so I know firsthand extraverted feeling, and I'm a lead introverted feeler, I know the stereotypes are not true in all cases, I do keep in mind that everyone is different, and I'm speaking in very broad terms with all of this because Extraverted and Introverted feeling will be drastically different depending on the personality types.

Fi doms DO care about how others are feeling, but we don't bend over backwards for people who wouldn't do the same for us. 

Another thing, Fe doms are good at comforting people or paying attention to them, regardless if they actually like that person. They can flutter around and seemingly take an interest in everyone, when they may really not care at all. It's not that all Fe doms are "fake". It's just something that they can do, if they're bored at a party or something. 
Lead Introverted Feelers like myself, rarely go out of their way to talk to, or show interest in other people unless they really want to. "Mingling" takes a lot of work, although it can be done, it is a chore. This does make Fi _generally_ more genuine, but less sociable in a sense. 

Take everything that I'm saying with a grain of salt. Not all of this is true for everyone. I'm sharing from my experiences, I'm no expert.


----------



## Chronicles (Jun 1, 2014)

LostFavor said:


> No problem. :happy: I've been studying this stuff on and off for years - it's a pleasure to share what I know about it.
> 
> I imagine everyone has some sort of "vision," but I think some types tend toward having a much more distinct vision, or only having a short-term vision. Ni-doms seem to be the most prone to the long-term, vague version of it.


I hope you don't mind me asking, but can you tell me about Ne vs. Ni and perhaps tell me more about which one I sound like to you? I only supported Ni and didn't think about Ne so i'm probably going to get the wrong answer. I can't relate as much to the Ni "ah-ha" moments. I don't have full answers pop up in my head like that, or as far as I know anyway. I'd have to be thinking of something first and then suddenly I'll understand or realize something. Like maybe I'm trying to explain something in my head using an analogy, and suddenly i'll realize it's the answer to something else as well. As for Ne, my mind does jump from one topic to another pretty randomly. I can think something through in depth of course but usually I'll get distracted if i'm talking to someone by all the things i'm remembering to tell this person and thinking up as I go. Not sure if this has anything to do with anything, but sometimes interpreting stories and finding out what was meant is confusing to me. I might have skipped some things while reading or just couldn't wrap my head around it because it wasn't said out loud even though everyone else understood it. Whenever someone says something, I always think something like "I remember something similar that happened to me" or "That reminds me of *insert something here*". I'm not very good with things like essays and stories because they have to follow a certain structure that I just can't wrap my head around. It's too methodical for me to understand. I guess this wasn't really just about Ne vs. Ni but also Si and Te perhaps. I also don't understand how Te vs. Se inferior would present themselves.


----------



## Chronicles (Jun 1, 2014)

ButterflyWingsNDayDreams said:


> I live with an ESFJ, (dominant in Fe) so I know firsthand extraverted feeling, and I'm a lead introverted feeler, I know the stereotypes are not true in all cases, I do keep in mind that everyone is different, and I'm speaking in very broad terms with all of this because Extraverted and Introverted feeling will be drastically different depending on the personality types.
> 
> Fi doms DO care about how others are feeling, but we don't bend over backwards for people who wouldn't do the same for us.
> 
> ...


Your description of Fe suits me more than Fi though o.o. I still prefer to be alone most of the time so I can think. I'm also pretty happy just observing other people. Most of the time, I wish I could participate as well but I lack social skills and am not confident enough to just get up and engage others. If I was comparing myself to INTPs I knew in person, they're more outgoing but then again, everyone I know is, including the Fi doms.


----------



## ButterflyWingsNDayDreams (May 4, 2014)

Chronicles said:


> Your description of Fe suits me more than Fi though o.o. I still prefer to be alone most of the time so I can think. I'm also pretty happy just observing other people. Most of the time, I wish I could participate as well but I lack social skills and am not confident enough to just get up and engage others. If I was comparing myself to INTPs I knew in person, they're more outgoing but then again, everyone I know is, including the Fi doms.


Your description thingy says that you're an INFP, but if you have extroverted feeling, you are most definitely not an INFP... The one type that I know of with extroverted feeling that is really shy and mostly observes others (wishing they could participate but lacking the courage) is the ISFJ. The ISFJs that I know really do resent their shyness the most


----------



## LostFavor (Aug 18, 2011)

Chronicles said:


> I hope you don't mind me asking, but can you tell me about Ne vs. Ni and perhaps tell me more about which one I sound like to you? I only supported Ni and didn't think about Ne so i'm probably going to get the wrong answer. I can't relate as much to the Ni "ah-ha" moments. I don't have full answers pop up in my head like that, or as far as I know anyway. I'd have to be thinking of something first and then suddenly I'll understand or realize something. Like maybe I'm trying to explain something in my head using an analogy, and suddenly i'll realize it's the answer to something else as well. As for Ne, my mind does jump from one topic to another pretty randomly. I can think something through in depth of course but usually I'll get distracted if i'm talking to someone by all the things i'm remembering to tell this person and thinking up as I go. Not sure if this has anything to do with anything, but sometimes interpreting stories and finding out what was meant is confusing to me. I might have skipped some things while reading or just couldn't wrap my head around it because it wasn't said out loud even though everyone else understood it. Whenever someone says something, I always think something like "I remember something similar that happened to me" or "That reminds me of *insert something here*". I'm not very good with things like essays and stories because they have to follow a certain structure that I just can't wrap my head around. It's too methodical for me to understand. I guess this wasn't really just about Ne vs. Ni but also Si and Te perhaps. I also don't understand how Te vs. Se inferior would present themselves.


I'll tell you what I can.

One way people talk about the difference between Ni and Ne is like an explosion (Ne) vs. an implosion (Ni). 

Another way to think of Ni is like the game Katamari Damacy; just running around, rolling everything up into a big conglomeration. In this case, the analogy serves if we think of the glob/ball of stuff as knowledge and experience, as opposed to literal physical things.

In this way, Ni wants everything to be connected somehow because it's all one big glob of understanding. This is one reason you'll find a number of Ni-doms among tinfoil hat conspiracy theorists. Particularly if the "facts" are connected in a surprising and exciting way. I've noticed this in myself and I actually have to be extra wary of conspiracies for this reason; they are appealing to me because they make more parts of the big glob seem connected, which is a satisfying notion.

Ne is a bit harder for me to describe because, to my understanding, I don't experience it in any distinctive way. 

Both Ne and Ni can jump from tangent to tangent, but Ne's links - as I understand them - tend to look more like a polygraph. Tenuous connections jumping up and down, only to fade away when they reach the end of the line, and then pop back up again in unpredictable positions when they start again. 

In this sense, Ne's connections may look a lot more bouncy and playful than that of Ni, and be less concerned with some kind of underlying, deeper meaning. Which is not to say that Ne isn't meaningful and that Ni is, but rather that Ni might tend toward placing a higher amount of value on each connection that it makes. Ne, in contrast, being more likely to discard the tenuous connections on a whim and start over.

Mind you, this is comparing them in the dominant position. They will most likely looked more subdued in the secondary position, albeit with the same general principles applying to them. 

*On Te and Se inferior*:

Se inferior, as I experience it, means that - for one thing - I can tend to feel disconnected from physical reality. Not as if it doesn't exist or something, but that my grasp of it sometimes feels dulled and clouded. I have a tendency to "zone out" of what's going on around me (which I realize is not exclusive to Ni) but it is something that is incredibly easy to happen. 

However, when I am strongly tuned into reality, it feels sort of like I'm a machine plugged into an electrical charge. When I want something to happen a certain way, I don't stop to consider how, I just _know_. It's a confident feeling and usually one with little awareness of my body or bodily state - instead, my body is sort of like an instrument and I am the musician playing whatever note is needed to make the desired "thing" happen.

This is not a scholarly, peer-reviewed description of Se inferior of course.  But it is more or less how I experience it and seems to corroborate somewhat with others' Se inferior experiences, and with the descriptions of Se from self-proclaimed Se-doms. 

As for Te inferior, I will have to do some theorizing, as it is not something that I know of experiencing. If Te has a tendency to want to lay things out step by step and bulldoze the opposition (intellectually) then in the inferior, it would most likely be a dulled version of this much of the time. A more clouded version of the step by step laying things out and a bit of uncertainty in the ability to bulldoze. 

I have seen what I think are INFPs (at least one of them) do the Te-like bulldozing (INFPs being a type with inferior Te), but there is usually a pronounced sensitivity behind it. The ability to bulldoze the opposition is there, but the strength to keep on bulldozing without hurting the themselves is shaky. 

In contrast, Te in the dominant and auxiliary position seems to have little concern with hurting itself when bulldozing and its greatest risk is in hurting others. I have experienced this myself countless times and seen it in other purported Te doms/auxs.

Those are the most important points that come to mind. If any of this is unclear, feel free to ask for clarification where needed.


----------



## Chronicles (Jun 1, 2014)

ButterflyWingsNDayDreams said:


> Your description thingy says that you're an INFP, but if you have extroverted feeling, you are most definitely not an INFP... The one type that I know of with extroverted feeling that is really shy and mostly observes others (wishing they could participate but lacking the courage) is the ISFJ. The ISFJs that I know really do resent their shyness the most


Ohhh okay. Thank you for clarifying that. What about yourself? Do you seek to connect with most people?


----------



## Chronicles (Jun 1, 2014)

LostFavor said:


> I'll tell you what I can.
> 
> One way people talk about the difference between Ni and Ne is like an explosion (Ne) vs. an implosion (Ni).
> 
> ...


I think I've always been a very "cohesive whole" kind of person. Sometimes perhaps trying to find the underlying pattern that every single thing that exists has in common, although it's kind of hard to find it and my brain is often too lazy to consider every single thing. 

I think I relate to inferior Te more with that. I can't really bulldoze without the sensitivity behind it. I kind of feel like we all have to somehow agree on something so I end up changing my opinion to fit theirs or not really talking about mine at all. 

I've always felt pretty disconnected from physical reality as well and always felt like more of a quiet observer who just took in everything. I'm not too sure I understand Se inferior though. Again, I've always just looked around, sometimes just staring at an object and then zoning out or looking at people and not thinking anything at all, kind of just _being_ but not really being in the physical world? 

I do like to organize things though. I'll try to make notes neat, use dividers, sticky notes, different colored pens, etc. I'll usually just put things in the same spot and have kind of an area/place for everything although my room might still look messy. I thought maybe that was an inferior Te thing.

I have a problem with structure, but in the writing sense. Writing essays and stories confuses me and I don't seem to do so well with them because you need to write it a certain way, follow steps, put this thing here, etc. It seems too robotic to me and as if what I'm saying just won't flow. My INTJ friend on the other hand is great at this. She can structure it and it somehow manages to flow as well. I prefer to just let it flow but kind of know where I'm laying down the pieces so it gives off a certain impression or idea in the reader's head. I'm not sure if I already mentioned the structure thing so I'm sorry if I just repeated it :tongue:

Another problem I've had with assignments is that I end up going off topic. For example, I'm asked to make a model of a house and I choose black as the color for the roof. I have to explain why I chose the color. What the teacher probably expects is something like "It keeps the house warm in the winter". I'll end up going into too much detail, asking why over and over until I'm not talking about the assignment anymore. I'll say something like "It keeps the house warm in the winter. Black absorbs all colors, and thus light and energy, which is why black keeps things warm. White on the other hand would keep it cool because it reflects all colors, and thus the light and energy that hits it, so it ends up being cooler". Then I might somehow start talking about atoms and other things that don't have much to do with the original question but kind of follow the thing I began with until I ask the last why to which I can't get any answer. I'm not sure if that had anything to do with it inferior Te or Se but I thought I should mention it. I guess I just don't know what they mean by explain or give supporting details.

Sorry this ended up being a little long.


----------



## LostFavor (Aug 18, 2011)

Chronicles said:


> I think I've always been a very "cohesive whole" kind of person. Sometimes perhaps trying to find the underlying pattern that every single thing that exists has in common, although it's kind of hard to find it and my brain is often too lazy to consider every single thing. I think Ne is perhaps too bouncy and playful for me. My INTP friend would always be buzzing with ideas. I have quite a few as well but perhaps not as many as her. Although I do tend to ask "What if I did this? What would happen then? Or what about this? what then?", etc. a lot.
> 
> I think I relate to inferior Te more with that. I can't really bulldoze without the sensitivity behind it. I kind of feel like we all have to somehow agree on something so I end up changing my opinion to fit theirs or not really talking about mine at all.
> 
> ...


Hmm. How do you feel about Ti? Do you feel like you relate with it at all?

I'm curious as to how it factors in for you.


----------



## Chronicles (Jun 1, 2014)

LostFavor said:


> Hmm. How do you feel about Ti? Do you feel like you relate with it at all?
> 
> I'm curious as to how it factors in for you.


Not exactly sure what Ti is really. I've always thought I was more Ti oriented though, even though I wasn't sure why. 
-I do like learning and understanding things for the sake of it. 
-I like to understand the principles on which something works. 
-In class, I do the work but really just want to know why it works. 
-Usually I prefer to understand the principles first and then understand how to structure it/use it. 
-I like organizing, making plans, etc. 
-I think I tend to just like understanding theories, ideas, etc. even if I don't do anything with the information. 
-I will get annoyed when I'm in a group and someone doesn't bother to understand what they have to do or works inefficiently and just randomly takes a shot at it. I'd rather we get the work done on time. 
-For me, I'd rather know why an object works vs. how to use it. 

Hmmm... I don't know what else to say about te vs. ti.


----------



## LostFavor (Aug 18, 2011)

Chronicles said:


> Not exactly sure what Ti is really. I've always thought I was more Ti oriented though, even though I wasn't sure why.
> -I do like learning and understanding things for the sake of it.
> -I like to understand the principles on which something works.
> -In class, I do the work but really just want to know why it works.
> ...


Ok, so let me ask you this:

If you have two options, 1) do X for the sake of it or 2) do X because it is necessary

Which are you more likely to choose? Not in regard to school or work in particular, but life in general. 

And another one, if you have two options, 1) do X in Y way because it's the best way 2) do X in Y way because it's your way


(X and Y are whatever actions/methods that come to mind for you)


----------



## Chronicles (Jun 1, 2014)

LostFavor said:


> Ok, so let me ask you this:
> 
> If you have two options, 1) do X for the sake of it or 2) do X because it is necessary
> 
> ...


I prefer to do something for the sake of it. Unless you mean I have something I want to do for the sake of it and something necessary, then I would choose necessary to get it out of the way. If you mean like my topic of interest such as MBTI I think I do it because I have to have something to learn and because it interests me.

I think I would choose my own way. I don't think anyone can really truly find the best way to do anything. Like for example the structure for a story or a floristry teacher telling me to make a bouquet a certain way, would bother me because I would ask if this really was the best way and couldn't there be other ways as well? (real example actually).


----------

