# How do I tell an SP from an SJ?



## teddy564339 (Jun 23, 2010)

monemi said:


> SJ and SP will do the same things but go about it differently. My husband do things together but he's more cautious than me. We both go swimming. He uses the steps and I literally dive in head first. He joins me for a run and he asks 5min what my route is. I have no idea what route I'm taking so I bullshit. If I had joined him on his run, he would have mapped it out first and figured out what the distance is and tracked the whole thing. He has a habit of always taking the same routes. My routes are always changing. We went skiing, he was happy on the intermediate runs (capable of more), but I won't do intermediate and I'll only stick with the trail map for so long. I decided we'd go off-piste and coaxed him into it. He negotiated a guide and a plan.
> 
> We do the same things but we approach it differently.



I agree with this, though I think it's probably most pronounced in a situation like yours when you have an Se dom and an Si dom. ISJs are going to be more cautious, consistent and planned out than ESJs will, and from what I gather ESPs are more gung-ho and spur of the moment than ISPs are.


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## athenian200 (Oct 13, 2008)

monemi said:


> SJ and SP will do the same things but go about it differently. My husband do things together but he's more cautious than me. We both go swimming. He uses the steps and I literally dive in head first. He joins me for a run and he asks 5min what my route is. I have no idea what route I'm taking so I bullshit. If I had joined him on his run, he would have mapped it out first and figured out what the distance is and tracked the whole thing. He has a habit of always taking the same routes. My routes are always changing. We went skiing, he was happy on the intermediate runs (capable of more), but I won't do intermediate and I'll only stick with the trail map for so long. I decided we'd go off-piste and coaxed him into it. He negotiated a guide and a plan.
> 
> We do the same things but we approach it differently.


This is a great explanation!

It marks a few interesting parallels with how I do things. I make a plan as to where I intend to be and what time I plan to be there. But I don't just take one route to get there, or track things carefully. I use my GPS or ask for directions if I get lost, but I remain flexible about the exact route I take. If I see a shorter path or something else interesting along the way, I'll take advantage of it. 

For example, there was a bridge over the light rail tracks that I walked over occasionally on my way to the bus stop. I didn't notice it at first, but one day when I was running late... I noticed that there was a sliver of concrete behind a short railing next to the sidewalk that led down to the train boarding and ticket purchase platform, like a little hill. It was too steep for me to walk down normally, but I got this sudden mental image of a gecko crawling up a steep incline on all fours. So, I looked around to make sure no one was watching... and then I took off my shoes and climbed down the incline on my hands and knees, with my toes giving me added traction/balance. It saved me from walking the long way around on the sidewalk... thus, I brought my ticket, caught the train, and got where I was going on time.

I guess that an SJ probably wouldn't do that, right?


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## Dabbling (Nov 2, 2013)

googoodoll said:


> IMHO SJ's/SP's seem way more different than NJ's/NP's do.


I find that NJ and NP are very different in how they talk, if that's any help to anyone.

NJ : short, to the point, brief, relevant, useful, insightful in an efficient way
NP : rambling, waffle, self interested, story formats and monologues which don't appear to have a point or relevance to the previous conversation, open ended trains of thought lacking conclusions and often lacking in coherence.

As NJ, I endure rather than enjoy conversations with NPs. 
Maybe that's just me...


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## googoodoll (Oct 20, 2013)

teddy564339 said:


> ISJs are going to be more cautious


I couldn't agree with this more, i hardly confuse ISJs with SP's, but i have with ESJs.


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## monemi (Jun 24, 2013)

Dabbling said:


> I find that NJ and NP are very different in how they talk, if that's any help to anyone.
> 
> NJ : short, to the point, brief, relevant, useful, insightful in an efficient way
> NP : rambling, waffle, self interested, story formats and monologues which don't appear to have a point or relevance to the previous conversation, open ended trains of thought lacking conclusions and often lacking in coherence.
> ...


I don't know. Whether a person is waffling on and on depends on interest level in the topic on the part of the listener. NJ's can be prone to rambling about their favourite topics like most people. If NP is talking about something I'm interested in, then it's a conversation. If NP is talking about something I'm not interested in, then it's rambling. :laughing:


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## Dabbling (Nov 2, 2013)

monemi said:


> I don't know. Whether a person is waffling on and on depends on interest level in the topic on the part of the listener. NJ's can be prone to rambling about their favourite topics like most people. If NP is talking about something I'm interested in, then it's a conversation. If NP is talking about something I'm not interested in, then it's rambling. :laughing:


Yes...okay...but there is a style of speaking which is what I'm trying to get at.

NJ is decisive, brief, almost urgent and certainly clear and to the point. Almost abrupt and can be seen as rude. You are certainly left in no doubt as to what they want you to do if it is an instruction.

NP is more tolerant, more likely to sound unsure, more likely to trail off halfway through something or cut to a new subject without making the link clear and may well interrupt themselves or trail off with a platitude such as 'Yeah, hmmm' or ramble round to a vague ending which by no tone of voice indicates finality. 

I am obviously generalising to make the point. I'm trying to highlight ends of a speech patterns spectrum that I have noticed. For me as NJ I want brevity...IN, GET FACTS, OUT. NP seems to want to list all possibilities regardless of their practicalities, relevance or usefulness. 

I'm not saying anything about whether the subject under discussion is of interest to me. I could discuss anything readily with another NJ because we would both be seeking to find a conclusion. I suspect NP can talk easily to NP because they would be exploring possibilities and enjoy hypothetical situations. For me, NJ-NP is away from my natural preferences. I can engage, but inside there will be a constant evaluation of what they are saying against real life, usefulness and whether this is a good use of my time. When I do engage, I may get confrontational because I may start trying to convince them that it won't work or isn't relevant to the thread of the argument so far. If I win, they will feel narked with me, if I lose I will feel the whole thing lacked a certain je ne said quoi, because it would feel to me like a useless ramble.

By the same token, I dislike 'taking a walk' but will happily walk to the shop and back to buy something.

It's the Ni -Ne difference.


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## monemi (Jun 24, 2013)

Dabbling said:


> Yes...okay...but there is a style of speaking which is what I'm trying to get at.
> 
> NJ is decisive, brief, almost urgent and certainly clear and to the point. Almost abrupt and can be seen as rude. You are certainly left in no doubt as to what they want you to do if it is an instruction.
> 
> ...


I suppose I'll have to watch more carefully, but I'll try to remember that it's in comparison with each other. ESTP tend to have an economical style of communication. I have noticed out of N types, ENTJ and ENFJ can be succinct. ENFJ stops being succinct when communication ceases to be about technical details. INTJ tend to be so focused on being precise/correct and that can take a long time to communicate. Trying to communicate with INTJ can feel like taking the scenic route when I just want to take the autobahn.


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## Dabbling (Nov 2, 2013)

monemi said:


> I suppose I'll have to watch more carefully, but I'll try to remember that it's in comparison with each other. ESTP tend to have an economical style of communication. I have noticed out of N types, ENTJ and ENFJ can be succinct. ENFJ stops being succinct when communication ceases to be about technical details. INTJ tend to be so focused on being precise/correct and that can take a long time to communicate. Trying to communicate with INTJ can feel like taking the scenic route when I just want to take the autobahn.


For my money, that's not an INTJ then, that's an INTP. 
INTJ is brief and to the point.

It is a continuous spectrum...


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## Strelok (Aug 16, 2013)

That INTJ superiority complex never gets old.


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