# Is this quote an example of Ni, or Ne?



## moths (May 10, 2014)

ephemereality said:


> Right, so I can actually link things without wanting to break my phone in the process. I think my favorite anime OPs and to a degree AMVs are all Ni-Se. I think what's gets really interesting is when you throw in audio interaction with the visuals in the mix:
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> ...


On the topic of Ni-orientated anime... the only anime I've really ever watched and fell in love with was Serial Experiments Lain, which is laden with Ni-Ti.


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## Kavik (Apr 3, 2014)

Would you say Ni-Se likes mixing the fantastical with the realistic? That's what I'm Getting from the art examples and I have to say there's something about them I really like.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

babblingbrook said:


> The problem is I have no idea what he is trying to get at. Videodrome is quite bizarro I'd say.
> 
> I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on the difference between Se-Ni and Ne-Si art.
> 
> The OP started another thread on Haruki Murakami saying he is a Ni-Se user, but I always thought of him as an extraverted intuition user, some INXP. Then there's David Lynch, whom I also find very difficult to type. Love both their work though, regardless of their type.


To be quite honest, I wasn't sure either when I watched it, though it probably didn't help that I did late at night and often didn't pay it that much attention. In retrospect when I think of it though, a lot of the issues brought up in the film seemed to revolve around Fe in some way. 

I have the same disdain towards Lynch actually, though I know a lot of people enjoy his films exactly because they are so "bizarro" as you put it, but it's meaningless bizarro to me. It's kind of very detached and void of to me and just doesn't come aross as meaningful or deeply profound. I am totally in love with Tarsem Singh though, and one of my all-time favorite films is The Cell:






It's the same reason I enjoy the Silent Hill franchise kinda, same kind of very dark symbolic imagery, at least up to the fourth game. It just got weird after that. They didn't try to connect to deeper hidden motifs anymore. I love the film though because it does touch on it.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

moths said:


> On the topic of Ni-orientated anime... the only anime I've really ever watched and fell in love with was Serial Experiments Lain, which is laden with Ni-Ti.


I saw Lain but I was too young to really get it back then, tried to watch it again but it's too damn slow now. But yes, I agree on NiTi for it I think, based off memory anyway.



Kavik said:


> Would you say Ni-Se likes mixing the fantastical with the realistic? That's what I'm Getting from the art examples and I have to say there's something about them I really like.


I suppose you could say? It's a different kind of fantastical compared to Ne-Si though. In contrast also, what did you think of the Ne-Si examples I provided? 

I am not saying this is fool proof, but you can often find that Ni-Se art does have very subtle or sometimes not so subtle symbolism in it.


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## absyrd (Jun 1, 2013)

moths said:


> It was posted on a missed connections page. If you are unfamiliar with missed connections it might make less sense.


I was talking more about how he expressed detailed images of things she did at various points throughout the day.


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## Kavik (Apr 3, 2014)

ephemereality said:


> I saw Lain but I was too young to really get it back then, tried to watch it again but it's too damn slow now. But yes, I agree on NiTi for it I think, based off memory anyway.
> 
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They lean more heavily on the fantastical and don't try to harmonize it with the real such as the overlapping picture with monsters that are in the real world but are clearly detached from it. The WoW picture tickled my love of complete fantasy worlds, it didn't seem so much out there with symbolism. I think the symbolism is stronger for Ne-Si because of the blaring removal and disruption it causes in the pictures.

Lain is a weird experimental anime. The concept was neat but the execution was funky. I think they were trying to externalize internal thoughts and came off too vague.

Munto could also be Ni-Ti, it crosses the real world with a mirror dimension completely different from our own but is still tethered to the real world. It's similar to lain in its execution. It's out there and tries to externalize internal thoughts through contemplation on imagery.

What do you think Redline would be? It has insane imagery with no real connection besides existing only in the world of the movie and events seem happen with no logical sense. If I tried to follow the plot my head would explode so I just enjoy the imagery and sound.


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## Mutant Hive Queen (Oct 29, 2013)

...actually, I've sort of been wondering something about my own artwork/random writing projects, and although I don't think I can get my (minuscule amount of) art on here I have a ton of writing I'd be interested in having you analyze. XD I feel sometimes like my art is way more Se/Ni than the other way round, at points, so...XD

Anyway, a thought about the difference between Ne/Si symbolism and Ni/Se symbolism--would it be fair to say that Ne/Si symbolism creates a world and governing principles of that world as well as physical symbols (differentiating it from Ni, which is more strictly physical?)?


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Kavik said:


> They lean more heavily on the fantastical and don't try to harmonize it with the real such as the overlapping picture with monsters that are in the real world but are clearly detached from it. The WoW picture tickled my love of complete fantasy worlds, it didn't seem so much out there with symbolism. I think the symbolism is stronger for Ne-Si because of the blaring removal and disruption it causes in the pictures.
> 
> Lain is a weird experimental anime. The concept was neat but the execution was funky. I think they were trying to externalize internal thoughts and came off too vague.
> 
> ...


Agreed, I could have used a better picture than WoW but it was more because I wanted to get the message across that I think Ne would focus a lot on what is happening in the picture and where it could go kind of thing. 

Since we're on the subject of anime, Bleach is a good example of ISFP art in my opinion. I also really liked Darker Than Black for that reason though the OPs don't really show that aspect of the show much.


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## Kathy Kane (Dec 3, 2013)

moths said:


> "I have no doubt the person didn't actually "see" any of that as he interacted with the subject of the writing, but just made it up off the top of his head."
> 
> I am confused. I thought that was obvious. :tongue:


You asked which N perceiving function it represented. The only way it would be connected to a function is if it was something perceived. Making something up is imagination and is irrelevant to the functions.


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## Sporadic Aura (Sep 13, 2009)

The original post is definitely Ni/Se, I also think surrealism can be tied to Se/Ni (SP's actually might be most likely to create surrealist art, just my opinion). Although I also enjoy it, as an Ne-dom.


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## RunForCover07 (Apr 9, 2013)

Kavik said:


> Would you say Ni-Se likes mixing the fantastical with the realistic? That's what I'm Getting from the art examples and I have to say there's something about them I really like.


You could say that it's seeing the imagined (Ni) and bringing it to the realistic (Se). But I think the focal point would be to focus on the imagined aspect, and use the physical to support the imagined. I don't know if that really makes sense at all, but it's not so much about the physical at all, rather the idea of what is imagined. In a weird way, it's using the physical to show what's imagined, to display something that's not supposed to be there at all.


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## Kavik (Apr 3, 2014)

RunForCover07 said:


> You could say that it's seeing the imagined (Ni) and bringing it to the realistic (Se). But I think the focal point would be to focus on the imagined aspect, and use the physical to support the imagined. I don't know if that really makes sense at all, but it's not so much about the physical at all, rather the idea of what is imagined. In a weird way, it's using the physical to show what's imagined, to display something that's not supposed to be there at all.


I think I get what you're saying. Maybe things like these pictures are Se and Ni.
The Refiller Cargo Terminal by Shue13 on deviantART
Magical Mirror by Ironshod on deviantART
http://elementofone1.deviantart.com/art/The-Last-Of-Us-418724319
http://elementofone1.deviantart.com/art/chagrin-355768014


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## RunForCover07 (Apr 9, 2013)

Kavik said:


> I think I get what you're saying. Maybe things like these pictures are Se and Ni.
> The Refiller Cargo Terminal by Shue13 on deviantART
> Another World by snakeartworx on deviantART
> I Will Kill Your Monster by ElementOfOne1 on deviantART
> The Kelpie by Kikksi on deviantART


I'm not really sure about Se, seeing as I don't really understand the function in myself all that well. Here is some work I've done.

In college, we had to create an art show poster in my typography class, and one would be selected to be used to advertise the show (mine won). We were told to define how we seen art, and this is what I came up with. I would say it's mainly Ni/Fe/Se.










I do 3D work on the side for the hell of it (I just like learning new things). I seen this picture of an abandoned gym, and I wanted to recreate it in a way that I imagined it before nature took it over. I would say this is mainly Ni/Ti/Se.










I would like to believe that Se makes me want to produce something that is physical, but there is usually some symbolism behind it. My second example isn't really "symbolism", but I did recreate something as it is (Se) in a way that I imagined it (Ni), as well as refined the hell out of it (Ti).

I would say that Ni/Fe/Ti has way more of an influence in my art than Se.


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## Kathy Kane (Dec 3, 2013)

moths said:


> "I have no doubt the person didn't actually "see" any of that as he interacted with the subject of the writing, but just made it up off the top of his head."
> 
> I am confused. I thought that was obvious. :tongue:


On top of the OP quote having nothing to do with the functions, it especially has no subjective value to it. Everything is external and being done outside of the writers self. It's more likely that an ESxP wrote it than an Ni or Ne dom.

Something subjective would be more like: last seen riding the pieces of me left behind, literally, straddling the veins lovingly stretched from my beating heart, clutching them like reins 

A subjective perspective wouldn't extravert the way the op quote did. Regardless, how someone writes fiction is varied and could be personal self or what they think people want to read. It won't always show cognition.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

@RunForCover07 You might be interested in my art. I do graphics like you, but I make signatures as a hobby:

Vayne sig 2 by entropic-insanity on deviantART
Get Jinxed 3 by entropic-insanity on deviantART
Ichigo FC Banner by entropic-insanity on deviantART
Talon Wallpaper 3 by entropic-insanity on deviantART
http://entropic-insanity.deviantart.com/art/Advent-Children-signature-331400853
http://entropic-insanity.deviantart.com/art/Darker-Than-Black-signature-310932657

I often have some symbolic undercurrent or idea the way I touch up my art. It helps knowing the source material but I don't think it's necessary in all scenarios. I think getting external references would be related to Te? I think I primarily rely on Ni, Fi and Se when I create art and Te deals more with the mechanical aspect of it. Te just doesn't do art, end of story.


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## Kavik (Apr 3, 2014)

RunForCover07 said:


> I'm not really sure about Se, seeing as I don't really understand the function in myself all that well. Here is some work I've done.
> 
> In college, we had to create an art show poster in my typography class, and one would be selected to be used to advertise the show (mine won). We were told to define how we seen art, and this is what I came up with. I would say it's mainly Ni/Fe/Se.
> 
> ...


Your art seems more grounded in a ghosting reality than things I would see or have my attention drawn to. It could be your strong Fe that has a better grasp on reality. My weak Fe would be less pronounced and show up as emotional tones. Say, lighting, color pallet, or word usage.

I'm not so sure I would notice symbolism, I've honestly always been really bad about spotting them unless they're glaringly obvious. I more so see what I see, though what I see is often removed from reality while still being grounded in it (Ti), if that makes sense. I think that's your stronger Fe again that draws you to symbols. If I use symbolism it's usually in the form of portals to other worlds or mirrors of reality. Symbolism usage just doesn't come all that naturally for me, it's been more of a learned skill. 

For my strong Se, it's a collector that feeds Ni. ISTP art is more likely to be the fantastical thrown into a physical realm (ex. spaceships in space, monsters and vehicles that can be dropped directly into what you see or built upon it) and vivid in imagery because my dominant Ti knows how to translate Ni and what it see internally. Then Se jumps up and down wanting to externalize what I see. 

I can't draw for anything but I can make up a written visualization for an example:

"Her breath misted over the barrel of the gun, curling white smoke over her eyes. Bruised and aching, her shoulder pressed against the butt of the gun and her frozen cheek stuck to the barrel. Her finger brushed the trigger as she sighted down the scope, shifting her squatted stance to relieve the tension in her cramping legs. Loose rubble ground under feet, echoing in the abandoned building bathed in blue moonlight. Her pupils dilated and she fired."


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## 0+n*1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Oh man, in my job all those things are blocked and I want something to read to kill these 3 hours. I want to see the stuff posted to compare it with mine, which I'd say it's surreal.


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## Reeseman (Dec 29, 2013)

moths said:


> I previously thought this would exemplify Ne... but now I'm wondering if it's actually Ni since it seems to be coming from an internal, surrealistic place?
> 
> This is from a writer who posted this to Craigslist's missed connections in New York:


This sounds like shit I would say. Definitely Ni. Probably with Fe, though. My brain shows me stuff like this, but this is romanticized the way an INFJ would do it. Could be Ni-Fi. Who knows.


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## Mutant Hive Queen (Oct 29, 2013)

Kavik said:


> I'm not so sure I would notice symbolism, I've honestly always been really bad about spotting them unless they're glaringly obvious. I more so see what I see, though what I see is often removed from reality while still being grounded in it (Ti), if that makes sense. I think that's your stronger Fe again that draws you to symbols. If I use symbolism it's usually in the form of portals to other worlds or mirrors of reality. Symbolism usage just doesn't come all that naturally for me, it's been more of a learned skill.
> 
> For my strong Se, it's a collector that feeds Ni. ISTP art is more likely to be the fantastical thrown into a physical realm (ex. spaceships in space, monsters and vehicles that can be dropped directly into what you see or built upon it) and vivid in imagery because my dominant Ti knows how to translate Ni and what it see internally. Then Se jumps up and down wanting to externalize what I see.
> 
> ...



...you know, it's odd, but I can actually say that I've done both hyperrealism and crazy symbolic stuff in my work. 

Like, looking at some poetry I wrote: 


* *




_Arbitraries
Today’s the day we draw our lines
I am black and you are white
I’m devout, you’re of Satan
The Arbitraries ne’er mistaken
Take your blissful ignorant cage
The victories inmates have made
The deaths of theirs you’ve felt in fear
Being there, a fellow prisoner
Your name you someday will forget
But your chains you’ll ne’er regret
_





* *





_Within these funerary veins
I sought a life in an insect’s cage
I sought a way to feel the fires burn
Me of my faults, and fears, and banes

Within the dungeons that reeked of mists
Scents made by insects and their cysts
All kinds of them could be travelling seen
But not one of them brought to me bliss

Deeper and deeper I came to dig
Within my quest to be something big
Till the caverns collapsed, and I, in fear
Lost sight of what brought me to here

The darkness, the claustrophobia
Brought me to a halt, I could see a skin had come
Of vitriol that they’d brought and made
Into something that could never see the sun again

At last I fled from the gruesome scene 
In fleeing at last I’d found something of me
Breaking forth perfectly, I’d a dragonfly be
In all of my flight I’d found the perfect cry for me_





* *





_As I stand on the edge of the whitest tower,One notices all the things one can see
All the finer points of things, but ah, they are still fine.


Still yet, they remain but grains of sand they remain
I cannot tolerate it
The lack of feeling in both of the palms of my hands
A connection of nerves, a jolt of dynamic lightning’s
The only way I can feel something like sunlight
For all of it that’s streaming in from where I stand above
All I could feel now within, 
Was the rose grown inside me, wilting,
Was the rose grown inside me, wilting, 
A true garden plant could not be sustained
Upon a mountain, and beach with fine sand grains​_




And a weird symbolic prose thing I wrote: 


* *






_In the beginning there was only lightning, striking down at the tallest of trees, the tallest of mountains, the tallest of temples. And in the beginning there was a man, with the void as his eyes, dying for light. The man stood upon the highest of trees, the tallest of mountains, the most excellent of temples, and he prayed. And as the lightning ignited him, his eyes filled with light and saw the truth about the world. In his mouth were the echoes and reverberations his eyes had captured, released to shape into being the forms that latter-day historians and scribes and educators would aspire to. But all of them forgot their airborne roots...as everyone remembered the prophet, everyone forgot the lightning. 

_--Something I just thought up on SeFi, NiTe, Nietzsche, the nature of inspiration for ideas, how revolutionary things become traditions.




So I can do symbolism for some things. But at the same time, you look at my long RP posts and short fiction-writing, you get a different pattern: 

An answer to a writing prompt I wrote

*Another such "short visualization"*


* *




The sewers were usually pretty noisy places, to those that spent a lot of time there. Rats, little drops of water, bugs...all sorts of creatures hid out here. 

One of them, though, was a bit out of the ordinary. And Sirena could sense it. The footsteps certainly weren't little and unobtrusive enough to be a rat's...

Sirena was crazy, to be sure, but there was a reason she'd lived this long. She knew upon hearing the footsteps that running was probably going to be pointless, as this newcomer probably didn't have bad hearing themselves. So the best solution was to freeze up, perfectly still, and wait to see if whoever it was coming in would leave or take a different path on their own. 

If they didn't, however...




I notice, actually, that in my fiction-writing that there's very little description of physical traits, but lots of movement, action, and _tactics_ as well. I like explaining the thoughts and movements of things, which I guess is Ti. XD

My other work suggests something more Ni/Seish, though, so...I'm not sure what to think. XD I've been told I'm Ne/Si, however.


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## Dragheart Luard (May 13, 2013)

Well, here I leave two videos with a Ni-Se vibe, the first one is part of the first Kara no Kyoukai movie, while the second is a To Aru Majutsu no Index AMV.


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## Kavik (Apr 3, 2014)

Chained Divinity said:


> ...you know, it's odd, but I can actually say that I've done both hyperrealism and crazy symbolic stuff in my work.
> 
> Like, looking at some poetry I wrote:
> 
> ...


It makes sense you would write differently depending on what you're trying to convey. With your poetry I could see what was being described but I can't say I translated it directly into symbolism. I would have to go back and reread and pick it apart. I think it's my Se that feeds on imagery which is brought to life in my mind. It takes it in without processing the meaning. 

I've written symbolism to describe a magical attack on the mind, to signify what can only be felt and not seen. This is a chopped up version of the attack from my story. With it I see what is happening with the struggle: 


* *




"The dark pull pressed in, trying to eat its way to the center...Between the pain and fire was darkness, ebbing waves crashed from either side, eating away at the island of my remaining sanity...The darkness was winning, what little light I could sense was disappearing. My struggles became less, the dark was easier than the fire...A new voice filled my being, a tsunami crashing into the fire and darkness with its frothing waters, swallowing the opposition in a flash flood...my island was swallowed, I was going to suffocate. I gasped in the last breath of air I may ever get, and with that breath my eyes flew open and my lungs burned so ferociously on oxygen that I fell into a coughing fit...Once the words left my chattering teeth the world bloomed into view, my head cleared like clouds parting from a storm that quenched a years’ worth of drought."




If we're still talking about anime I think this is strong Se-Ni.


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## Chesire Tower (Jan 19, 2013)

Sit by my side, come as close as the air,
Share in a memory of gray;
Wander in my words, dream about the pictures
That I play of changes.

Green leaves of summer turn red in the fall
To brown and to yellow they fade.
And then they have to die, trapped within
the circle time parade of changes.

Scenes of my young years were warm in my mind,
Visions of shadows that shine.
Til one day I returned and found they were the
Victims of the vines of changes.

The world's spinning madly, it drifts in the dark
Swings through a hollow of haze,
A race around the stars, a journey through
The universe ablaze with changes.

Moments of magic will glow in the night
All fears of the forest are gone
But when the morning breaks they're swept away by
golden drops of dawn, of changes.

Passions will part to a strange melody.
As fires will sometimes burn cold.
Like petals in the wind, we're puppets to the silver
strings of souls, of changes.

Your tears will be trembling, now we're somewhere else,
One last cup of wine we will pour
And I'll kiss you one more time, and leave you on
the rolling river shores of changes.

So sit by my side, come as close as the air
Share in a memory of gray
Wander in my words, dream about the pictures
That I play of changes

"Changes"
Artist: Phil Ochs

Album: Miscellaneous

Genre: Folk


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## Mutant Hive Queen (Oct 29, 2013)

Kavik said:


> It makes sense you would write differently depending on what you're trying to convey. With your poetry I could see what was being described but I can't say I translated it directly into symbolism. I would have to go back and reread and pick it apart. I think it's my Se that feeds on imagery which is brought to life in my mind. It takes it in without processing the meaning.
> 
> I've written symbolism to describe a magical attack on the mind, to signify what can only be felt and not seen. This is a chopped up version of the attack from my story. With it I see what is happening with the struggle:
> 
> ...


Oh, I perceive _my own_ writing as physical imagery first. XD I have to think for a second to recall the meaning of what I made. XD

But I do see the Ni/Se symbolism in yours, definitely. :happy:

I can definitely also detect something _different_ in our writing styles, but I can't place it quite. Amount of time spent on physical actions?


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## Amandine (May 11, 2014)

Blue Flare said:


> Well, here I leave two videos with a Ni-Se vibe, the first one is part of the first Kara no Kyoukai movie, while the second is a To Aru Majutsu no Index AMV.
> 
> 
> * *


I'll add some Si-Ne vibes then. 


* *















↕↕ I think these two are very similar. Even the story is. ↕↕


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

@Kavik I hate Psycho-Pass with a passion, but it made me think of the potential inspiration of that OP which is likely Ghost in the Shell that's actually another good example of Ni-Se. It's very subtle but oh so fucking beautiful:


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## Kavik (Apr 3, 2014)

Chained Divinity said:


> Oh, I perceive _my own_ writing as physical imagery first. XD I have to think for a second to recall the meaning of what I made. XD
> 
> But I do see the Ni/Se symbolism in yours, definitely. :happy:
> 
> I can definitely also detect something _different_ in our writing styles, but I can't place it quite. Amount of time spent on physical actions?


Heh, same. a lot of times I just start writing and don't even know what I mean until I go back and read it. A lot of it comes unconsciously when I'm describing what I see. 

I think you use more adjectives where I prefer verbs or adverbs.


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## Kavik (Apr 3, 2014)

ephemereality said:


> @<span class="highlight"><i><a href="http://personalitycafe.com/member.php?u=83946" target="_blank">Kavik</a></i></span> I hate Psycho-Pass with a passion, but it made me think of the potential inspiration of that OP which is likely Ghost in the Shell that's actually another good example of Ni-Se. It's very subtle but oh so fucking beautiful:


I like Psycho Pass once I get past the obnoxious amount of quoting, it has its strengths though I wouldn't put it on my all time favorite animes list. 

Your video is blocked in my country but I always loved the visuals for Ghost in the Shell openings. Is it the movie opening version with the creation of the cybernetic body? Something about the close ups of intricate parts coming together so perfectly is mesmerizing, especially when coupled with the amazing music.

I think I found yours, it's the animated opening. This is the one I was thinking of. Both openings are equally beautiful.


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## Orange Fusion (Nov 16, 2013)

moths said:


> I previously thought this would exemplify Ne... but now I'm wondering if it's actually Ni since it seems to be coming from an internal, surrealistic place?
> 
> This is from a writer who posted this to Craigslist's missed connections in New York:
> 
> "you were last seen walking through a field of pianos. no. a museum of mouths. in the kitchen of a bustling restaurant, cracking eggs and releasing doves. no. eating glow worms and waltzing past my bedroom. last seen riding the subway, literally, straddling its metal back, clutching electrical cables as reins. you were wearing a dress made out of envelopes and stamps, this was how you travelled. i was the mannequin in the storefront window you could have sworn moved. the library card in the book you were reading until that dog trotted up and licked your face. the cookie with two fortunes. the one jamming herself through the paper shredder, afraid to talk to you. the beggar, hat outstretched bumming for more minutes. the phone number on the bathroom stall with no agenda other than a good time. the good time is a picnic on water, or a movie theatre that only plays your childhood home videos and no one hushes when you talk through them. when they play my videos i throw milk duds at the screen during the scenes i watch myself letting you go – lost to the other side of an elevator – your face switching to someone else’s with the swish of a geisha’s fan. my father could have been a travelling salesman. i could have been born on any doorstep. there are 2,469,501 cities in this world, and a lot of doorsteps. meet me on the boardwalk. i’ll be sure to wear my eyes. do not forget your face. i could never."


Is this an example of Ne or Ni?

No. It's an example of shitty writing.


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## Orange Fusion (Nov 16, 2013)

dinkytown said:


> Yes. Si hates surrealism; people tend to underestimate the Si in NPs.


Congratulations!

You have just won my "Bullshit Post of the Week Award"!!


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## Sporadic Aura (Sep 13, 2009)

I think the writer in the OP is an INTJ, Te is pretty obvious in the style..

I'd also like to hear why that guy thinks Si-types don't like surrealism.


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## d e c a d e n t (Apr 21, 2013)

To be honest, the quote in the OP gives me the impression of lower N, but then I couldn't bring myself to read through the whole thing because it seems like a bunch of BS mostly. *cough*


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## Orange Fusion (Nov 16, 2013)

Kathy Kane said:


> On top of the OP quote having nothing to do with the functions, it especially has no subjective value to it. Everything is external and being done outside of the writers self. It's more likely that an ESxP wrote it than an Ni or Ne dom.
> 
> Something subjective would be more like: last seen riding the pieces of me left behind, literally, straddling the veins lovingly stretched from my beating heart, clutching them like reins
> 
> A subjective perspective wouldn't extravert the way the op quote did. Regardless, how someone writes fiction is varied and could be personal self or what they think people want to read. It won't always show cognition.


Exactly.

This thread has been a wonderful demonstration of how a group of people who know fuck all about a topic can be perfectly happy to write pages and pages of pure conjecture. Nonsense. And then slap each other on the back and say how clever they are.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Sporadic Aura said:


> I think the writer in the OP is an INTJ, Te is pretty obvious in the style..
> 
> I'd also like to hear why that guy thinks Si-types don't like surrealism.





Nonsense said:


> To be honest, the quote in the OP gives me the impression of lower N, but then I couldn't bring myself to read through the whole thing because it seems like a bunch of BS mostly. *cough*


I don't know why people think this writing is the result of an INTJ or dominant Ni type. Yes, the Ni is blatant, yes, so is the Te, but look at the imagery. It's so random. Would you say this is logical, that it makes sense, that it follows some deeper profound idea? Look at the imagery created and its randomness. It's definitely familiar to what I would write but I wouldn't write it this random because I would, as an auxiliary Te type, be better at finding a good analogy to convey my impressions than this. What does a "museum of mouths" mean even? 

It reminds me of that song by the Beatles called Strawberry Fields Forever that arkigos mentioned as an example of N. 






Yes, it's N, but it's the kind of wacko zany N you see in weak N types. Strawberry fields forever, wtf does that even mean? Or take lines like these: 

Living is easy with eyes closed.

I'm sorry John and Paul, but uhm yeah, no shit kinda? What does that symbolically represent? It's like when I see lines like these in Machinae Supremacy songs: 

don't just accept the way things are
now which one are you, the driver or the car

Or:

A transformer shell on what's within
Metal surface on a fragile skin
Do you always play only to win?

What? I mean, I get it, but you can't say that doesn't come across as awkward because it does and it comes across as awkward precisely because it's of lower order N(i). I bet there are a lot of inferior Ni types out there who are good writers, but I think their writing is going to shine when they write about the sensory as opposed to the intuitive, personally. Also if you then couple it with weak Je, it's going to come across as even weirder because the Ni vision is poorly matched against a known object idea so you end up with stuff like "walking through a field of pianos". It's just nonsensical. 

It also comes across a little like the author just wrote whatever came to mind without filtering and one can question why one would do that, but whatever. I am personally not sold on that the author is an INTJ just because we see Ni and Te in the writing. The quality of said Ni and Te is what really matters here, in my opinion.


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## Kathy Kane (Dec 3, 2013)

Orange Fusion said:


> Exactly.
> 
> This thread has been a wonderful demonstration of how a group of people who know fuck all about a topic can be perfectly happy to write pages and pages of pure conjecture. Nonsense. And then slap each other on the back and say how clever they are.


I was expecting more responses about the crap writing :dry: 

If they really wanted to evaluate it then at least evaluate it accurately based on something remotely close to cognition. I've found this group think response here. One person says Ni Te and everyone concurs. It's quite funny.


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## Kathy Kane (Dec 3, 2013)

ephemereality said:


> I don't know why people think this writing is the result of an INTJ or dominant Ni type.


 LOL. Everyone followed your lead


ephemereality said:


> Ni with Te.


Of course now you backtrack and say it's not Ni dom with Te. Why didn't you just say Se or Fi in the first place? 

I doubt either function occurred to you until other people brought it up first.


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## Orange Fusion (Nov 16, 2013)

Kathy Kane said:


> I was expecting more responses about the crap writing :dry:
> 
> If they really wanted to evaluate it then at least evaluate it accurately based on something remotely close to cognition. I've found this group think response here. One person says Ni Te and everyone concurs. It's quite funny.


Yeah, it's dreadful!

If I had to type the author based on that tiny little quote, I'd say ISFP. But that's based purely on the fact that in my writing group the only two writers who sometimes write that kind of stuff are ISFPs. It has little to do with the quote itself.


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## ScientiaOmnisEst (Oct 2, 2013)

Thread consensus: an XSFP failing at Te and Ni (especially Ni).

Possible alternative: it's an XNTP or XNFP trolling Craigslist because they can. There's a thread right now in the INTP forum, the objective of which is to write something completely nonsensical, so the next poster can try to find a meaning in it - not unlike what we're doing on this thread. Some of the entries bear resemblance to this in their absurdity. 

If it is an NP troll, well done sir or madam.

......


I have contributed nothing of value to this thread. Moving on.


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## Orange Fusion (Nov 16, 2013)

ScientiaOmnemEst said:


> Thread consensus: an XSFP failing at Te and Ni (especially Ni).
> 
> Possible alternative: it's an XNTP or XNFP trolling Craigslist because they can. There's a thread right now in the INTP forum, the objective of which is to write something completely nonsensical, so the next poster can try to find a meaning in it - not unlike what we're doing on this thread. Some of the entries bear resemblance to this in their absurdity.
> 
> ...


I don't agree with the idea that it is an ISFP "failing" at Ni (whatever that means).

It's just an ISFP using their Ni in the way that ISPs use Ni. They use it in a very playful way, and don't really give a shit whether or not it makes any sense -- they just enjoy the images.

It doesn't always lead to bad writing, sometimes in can be great (listen to "Desolation Row" by Bob Dylan. Makes absolutely no sense, but it's still great writing).

****

I have no idea where Te comes into that quote...


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## ScientiaOmnisEst (Oct 2, 2013)

Orange Fusion said:


> I don't agree with the idea that it is an ISFP "failing" at Ni (whatever that means).
> 
> It's just an ISFP using their Ni in the way that ISPs use Ni. They use it in a very playful way, and don't really give a shit whether or not it makes any sense -- they just enjoy the images.
> 
> ...


I guess failing was the wrong word. I suppose it "fails" when compared to how a strong Ni user would use it. Random, disjointed, nonsensical phrases seemingly thrown together instead of interconnecting the concrete and abstract

There also seem to be quite a few people here who think the writing itself sucks, so there's that.

Also, I agree that something can make no sense and still be good writing. Like I said, bad choice of words.


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## Orange Fusion (Nov 16, 2013)

ScientiaOmnemEst said:


> I guess failing was the wrong word. I suppose it "fails" when compared to how a strong Ni user would use it. Random, disjointed, nonsensical phrases seemingly thrown together instead of interconnecting the concrete and abstract
> 
> There also seem to be quite a few people here who think the writing itself sucks, so there's that.
> 
> Also, I agree that something can make no sense and still be good writing. Like I said, bad choice of words.


Nah, it's just a 'different' way of using Ni than INJs use it.

Use of tertiary functions come across as very childish to types who use that function 1st. So, an INTJ would see an ISFPs use of Ni and say, "Why are you using it like that? Learn to do it properly you idiot!" The ISFP, however, would say the same to the INTJ about Fi. 

But yeah, this particular piece of writing sucks.


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