# 478 or 468?



## Rala (Apr 1, 2015)

BIG EDIT: How do I move this thread? XD 


So I am going to leave this here  When I read about the 7 and the 6 it's easy to me to choose the 7 because I can hardly relate to the 6. But when I read about the 468 and 478 tritypes, I am send back into my ball of confusion XD So I would appreciate any thoughts. And I'm going to tag you @Animal because I'd love to know what you think 


*1. What do you think your life is about? What drives you in life? This can be something like a goal or a purpose, or anything else that comes to mind.*

Ever since I was a kid, I had two burning desires: to express myself by following my passions, and to help others. I feel compelled and determined to combine the two of them. My fear of being forgotten drives me in life too, I guess. I want to be remembered, and I want to really mean something to someone. I want to be seen for who I really am and valued, and I want to see and be able to stare people in the soul in return. I long for genuine connections and for genuine love - something I never had. 

*2. What were you like as a kid?*

Oversensitive, stubborn, creative, curious, not very social. I used to like playing alone a lot; I used to wander solitary places all day by myself, lost in my imaginary world. When playing with other kids, I used to be pretty domineering, everything had to be done my way. I was a very angry kid too most of the times because every little thing would hurt me. I would get mad at my parents (especially at my mom) often and run away from home. I felt alone and misunderstood most of my childhood.

*3. Describe your relationship with your parents. Does anything stand out about the way you interacted?*

With my mom - a normal one. With my dad - it's a love/hate relationship, really. Actually, with both of them, but more so with my dad. I always felt like me and my dad understood each other on a deeper level, but our relationship has been tumultuous now and then, when he would disappoint me, making me feel hurt.

*4. What values are important to you? What do you hope to avoid doing or being?*

I value freedom, all kinds of freedom. I was raised around religious and closed-minded people and I am glad I was able to free myself, I am glad I followed that inner knowing that made me accepting and empathetic. I value compassion and inner strength. I value Truth and I respect people that stand for it.
I find myself running from mediocrity, and even "normalcy". I avoid responsibilities, compromising too much and I avoid feeling trapped, like staying in a place for too long makes me feel like that - trapped. I always felt like I was somewhere out there in the world and I needed to go find myself, and so staying in one place for too long makes me feel like I am never evolving. Or trapped when it comes to relationships, though I always end up feeling like I am "too much" for people. I think I avoid feeling inferior; nothing motivates me more than this to get better at something. I also avoid being forgotten by people; I want the people whose lives I enter (and leave) to always remember me. I like making strong impressions everywhere I go, anyway; or I won't go there at all. Also - a big one - I avoid straying too much from my "dark" side and forgetting who I really am, like.. I avoid getting out of touch with myself and my real emotions.

*5. Aside from phobias, are there any fears that characterized your childhood? Have they continued into the present day, or not, and if not, how have you dealt with them?*

As a child, I was terorized by the thought of losing loved ones (my parents). Now I fear rejection and I have big abandonment issues.

*6. a.) How do you see yourself?*

I see myself as a mix of red and blue, really (red representing the hard and blue, the soft here  ). So, a violet, haha. I am not always friendly, but I am kind. I know I am oversensitive, emotional, moody, intense, intelligent, stubborn, strong, different, funny.

*b.) How do you want others to see you?*

I guess I want others to see me as beautiful inside and out, in general. As original and unique. As sensitive, yet strong.

*c.) What do you dislike the most in other people?*

I hate hate HATE when people are being manipulative with me in subtle ways. Also, when someone is a know-it-all, seeing everything as "right" and "wrong". (Is this supposed to reveal things about me? Considering the mirroring thing?)

*7. Which habit do you most automatically act on? Rank the following habits from most to least automatic, on a scale of 1 (most) to 3 (least).
a.) Work for personal gain with more concern for self than for others.
b.) Strive for a sense of tranquility in yourself and the world around you.
c.) Decide what is right for the betterment of something or someone else.*

a>b>c

*8. Where does the wandering mind take you? What provokes this?*

To places I'd like to go and people I either miss or I'd like to meet, where I am usually an "ideal" version of me (always). And when I am lost deep inside my mind, I am usually writing lines while sinking into my emotions at the same time. Sometimes I'm just trying to make sense of them in the attempt to understand myself and move on.

*9.What makes you feel your best? What makes you feel your worst?*

Best: When I express myself and when I take control of my life by following my passions. This usually happens when I am able to have a solid grasp of who I am and when I am able to handle my emotions. Makes me feel less lost. Also, when I happen to come across people I can really really connect with.

Worst: When I fail at doing something or being something. When I get confused about what am I supposed to do with my life. When I literally lose all control in my life.

*10. Let's talk about emotions. Explain what might make you feel the following, how they feel to you or how you react to the emotion:

a.) anger*

I get angry when I am hurt emotionally and I get hurt easily. I get angry when there's injustice, I hate that dirt under the carpet. And I get angry when I am told something I feel, say or do is not "right" or "appropriate" or whatever, so when I am not allowed to be myself. I guess I turn on the other person and I literally try too hard to defy them, or hurt them back. When the anger is not caused by any other person, I just cry a lot and exercise to consume all the energy.

*b.) shame*

I feel shame when I fail at being who I want to be, and fall back into my old self. I feel shame when I do not meet my standards. I feel shame when I look deep deep inside. When I feel shame, I hide from the world, I literally cut all contact until I get back on my feet again.

*c.) anxiety*

Having no purpose and a sense of who I am. I either numb myself until I can no longer do it anymore and have to face what's underneath or do stupid shit, like throwing everything I worked for away.

* Describe how you respond to the following: 

a.) stress*

I am rarely stressed, because I hide all my problems somewhere in the back of my mind expecting them to solve themselves. Like, I really trust they will, otherwise they would eat me alive. When I do feel stressed, I fall deep into depression.

*b.) negative unexpected change*

I get frustrated, but I still remain kind of optimistic that it will change for the better soon. 

*c.) conflict*

I get angry if I feel attacked (and I often do). I enjoy it only when I start it haha. It can be pretty scary if it's with someone I love and care about, but, ironically, I find myself starting it with the people I care about because I want to shake things up and see what's really underneath (used to do this unconsciously).

*12. a.) What kind of role are you naturally inclined to take in a group? Why?*

Last time I found myself in a group was during a class and I was coming up with all kinds of ideas (some silly and funny because I do that unconsciously because it's easier when people don't take things too seriously), so I'd say I am the creative one in a group, though I rarely find myself in one. I usually don't like being a part of something. 

*b.) If put in power, how do you behave? Why?*

I think I consider everyone's opinions and feelings, because I don't like deciding for other people just like I don't like someone to decide for me.

*c.) Do you tend to struggle with others who have authority over you? Why?*

Always. It just irritates me greatly. What if I feel like they are wrong? I could never shut up.

*13. What do you see or notice in others that most people don't?*

I see hidden motives behind people's actions easily and I seem to always connect to someone's emotional state, and not really in an empathetic kind of way. I usually can tell when someone's lying. And most importantly, I am able to see the best version of someone, their potential (maybe it's because I am obsessed with becoming the best version of myself).

*14. Comment on your relationship with trust.*

We've never been friends. Once maybe, a long time ago, in childhood where everything begins. I cannot trust someone completely due to my fear of rejection and deep buried shame.

*15. Briefly: What religious and/or political beliefs do you have? Do you think they influenced your responses in this questionnaire?*

I was never religious, I used to scare my mom because of my "lack of faith" as a kid. I see myself as a spiritual person, always in search for the Truth.

As for political beliefs, Libertarianism.

*16. Which of the following temptations do you find yourself acting upon the most? (And briefly state why)*

-To constantly push yourself to be “the best” (Because it make me stand out);
-To overuse imagination in searching for yourself (it's like I was born in my head and obsessed with who I am and who I am not );
-To consider yourself entirely self-sufficient ( I always wanted to feel like an island, independent and self-sufficient, but I've realized independence and dependence are only extremes and that neither is the right answer ).

*17. What's something you ARE: a.) thankful you have b.) wish you could have? Why?*

a.) Emotional intelligence. Puts me in touch with who I am.

b.) More inner knowledge about myself, life, Universe and everything that interests me. Because I want to understand everything, I want it all to make sense to me.[/QUOTE]


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## Animal (May 29, 2012)

rala said:


> big edit: How do i move this thread? Xd
> 
> 
> so i am going to leave this here :d when i read about the 7 and the 6 it's easy to me to choose the 7 because i can hardly relate to the 6. But when i read about the 468 and 478 tritypes, i am send back into my ball of confusion xd so i would appreciate any thoughts. And i'm going to tag you @_animal_ because i'd love to know what you think :d



I will do my best 



> *1. What do you think your life is about? What drives you in life? This can be something like a goal or a purpose, or anything else that comes to mind.*
> 
> ever since i was a kid, i had two burning desires: To express myself by following my passions, and to help others.


This may sound trite, but I think it's more significant than it sounds... my burning desire is to follow my passions and where others are concerned, to inspire them. To be a symbol of something that inspires others to be true to their own visions, their own selves. I want my art to be a mirror in which others can see themselves. That is what I wrote in my typing thread.

And to me, that's more 7-centered. 478s are "The Messenger" because they are a symbol of something. Their vision, their ideals. I have helped people too but my aspiration is being a symbol. I have provided the most help that way. Even in writing about my struggles with illness on facebook, rather than simply writing facts... people have RELATED to me and been inspired because I sang through my whisper, more than I've tried or managed to help people in a more hands-on way, like returning emails from people who ask me to describe lyme symptoms. I try, but I just lose track..whereas being a symbol comes naturally, and people with other ailments tell me I inspired them to "get back up," and people with lyme tell me they figured out from me talking about myself, that they also have lyme. I notice this with other 478 tritypers too, regardless of which type comes first, though 8 core tends to be a more grounded protector so thats a little different.

Helping others in a more hands-on way... or making a point to say that.. I can't explain why it's more 6ish, but some of the later stuff is easier to explain..

As @_Spirit Animal_ just pointed out to me, Angelina Jolie, who we both believe is a 468 Sx, she goes to other countries and helps people in a hands-on way. My 461 friend does this too, or aspires to. 47X are more self-important, *conceited* if you will, like flared out dramatic about how amazing they are. It's a double self-absorption, and it is usually extreme. I'm so self absorbed that I have more than 100 pictures of myself beside my male alter ego... @[email protected] you can see this trait in Tori Amos too, who is a 749, and Marilyn manson, a 471. They are a self absorbed, costumed and dramatic symbol, rather than a humanitarian helper, like Angelina Jolie (468) or even Jeff Martin my idol from Tea Party (468) who raises money to help abused women.



> I feel compelled and determined to combine the two of them. My fear of being forgotten drives me in life too, i guess. I want to be remembered, and i want to really mean something to someone. I want to be seen for who i really am and valued, and i want to see and be able to stare people in the soul in return. I long for genuine connections and for genuine love - something i never had.


I never think about being forgotten. I don't want to die because I want to experience life forever. (This is 7ish.) What happens after death is not my concern unless my loved ones are involved. Of course it would be great to "live forever" through my work but thats not why I do it. I want to live the best life I can, stand for what I believe, be a vessel through which my ideals and passions emerge.. but leaving a legacy is not important to me. It is, however, important to three people I know well and all of them have 6 in their tritype. I have no idea if that is related to type, but it is a pattern that I've noticed. I don't know why!! and I am looking into the cause, if I can figure it out, if it's related or not.



> *2. What were you like as a kid?*
> 
> oversensitive, stubborn, creative, curious, not very social. I used to like playing alone a lot; i used to wander solitary places all day by myself, lost in my imaginary world. When playing with other kids, i used to be pretty domineering, everything had to be done my way. I was a very angry kid too most of the times because every little thing would hurt me. I would get mad at my parents (especially at my mom) often and run away from home. I felt alone and misunderstood most of my childhood.


Everything you wrote here is exactly how I was, haha. I mean down to the nuance. And I have talked about all these things on forum too.

All I can say about it is that it does sound like 4 with 8 fix. The domineering of other kids.. I cant see a 4 with 9 fix doing that and a 4 with 1 fix might not think to bring it up like that. Everything having to be your way - its 4ish. Oversensitive, its young 4s. Running away from home... I did that too, and I'm not sure i can label why.



> *3. Describe your relationship with your parents. Does anything stand out about the way you interacted?*
> 
> with my mom - a normal one. With my dad - it's a love/hate relationship, really. Actually, with both of them, but more so with my dad. I always felt like me and my dad understood each other on a deeper level, but our relationship has been tumultuous now and then, when he would disappoint me, making me feel hurt.


Normal? 

Sounds a bit too familiar, the father description. 0.0 

I'm not sure its enneagram related, but it does sound like the type 8 model for child-parent (active child, active parent)



> *4. What values are important to you? What do you hope to avoid doing or being?*
> 
> i value freedom, all kinds of freedom. I was raised around religious and closed-minded people and i am glad i was able to free myself, i am glad i followed that inner knowing that made me accepting and empathetic. I value compassion and inner strength. I value truth and i respect people that stand for it.
> I find myself running from mediocrity, and even "normalcy". I avoid responsibilities, compromising too much and i avoid feeling trapped, like staying in a place for too long makes me feel like that - trapped. I always felt like i was somewhere out there in the world and i needed to go find myself, and so staying in one place for too long makes me feel like i am never evolving. Or trapped when it comes to relationships, though i always end up feeling like i am "too much" for people. I think i avoid feeling inferior; nothing motivates me more than this to get better at something. I also avoid being forgotten by people; i want the people whose lives i enter (and leave) to always remember me. I like making strong impressions everywhere i go, anyway; or i won't go there at all. Also - a big one - i avoid straying too much from my "dark" side and forgetting who i really am, like.. I avoid getting out of touch with myself and my real emotions.


Okay.. so people might say "trapped, oh, its a 7 trigger!" But theres an undercurrent here: its like someone else is trapping you. 7s fear of being trapped is so innate that they simply never feel like anyone can hold them down. 7s lost childhood message is "its ok to depend on other people" - most 4s can relate to that too - but 7s keep themselves independent habitually so that nothing can hold them down.

I'm literally trapped because I have a chronic illness but I don't FEEL trapped. My 7 rationalization and pride tells me that I chose to come back to my hometown because it was the best opportunity available given my restrictions for my illness. If I wanted to I could plow forth and go somewhere else, but this is the "best opportunity." That's 7 rationalization. Nobody _can_ trap me. Just like nobody can tell a 4 who to be, or dominate an 8.

I can't be trapped in relationships. That's giving way too much power to someone else. I just leave. I also don't care about being remembered except by people I care about, specific people. Usually once I'm done I just want to get away. 

I avoid getting out of touch with myself & emotions too. That's just 4.



> *5. Aside from phobias, are there any fears that characterized your childhood? Have they continued into the present day, or not, and if not, how have you dealt with them?*
> 
> as a child, i was terorized by the thought of losing loved ones (my parents). Now i fear rejection and i have big abandonment issues.


I never thought about that. I was terrorized by the idea of having to work a mundane job or be part of this cruel world with all its meaningless rituals. I wrote books about prostitutes at age 11 because I was terrified of having to give myself to anyone I don't love. 

Somehow I sense more "attachment triad" influence here, though I can't explain it concretely either.




> *6. A.) how do you see yourself?*
> 
> i see myself as a mix of red and blue, really (red representing the hard and blue, the soft here :d ). So, a violet, haha. I am not always friendly, but i am kind. I know i am oversensitive, emotional, moody, intense, intelligent, stubborn, strong, different, funny.


Love this but no comment



> *b.) how do you want others to see you?*
> 
> i guess i want others to see me as beautiful inside and out, in general. As original and unique. As sensitive, yet strong.


The thought that someone wouldn't see me as being original or strong is unfathomable to me. (7 conceit maybe) .. 7s tend to be very aware of how unique they are and take it for granted. I do fear that people will view me as *insensitive* - that's a 478 problem according to the fauvres. As for beautiful.. yeah.. I really have a hard time believing anyone would think that of me ..

Every 6 i know says they want to be seen as unique. Another coincidence maybe.



> *c.) what do you dislike the most in other people?*
> 
> i hate hate hate when people are being manipulative with me in subtle ways.


I don't notice this unless it's splat in my face because I'm way too self absorbed. Sixes do notice though, and Jeff Martin, a clear 468, sings about it too. Once I've seen it , it can't be unseen, but it takes a long time especially considering how strong my intuition is. I also don't see myself as someone who could be manipulated, so in my over-confidence I never worry about it. Most 7s don't until it hits them.



> Also, when someone is a know-it-all, seeing everything as "right" and "wrong". (is this supposed to reveal things about me? Considering the mirroring thing?)


Haha. I think all 4s hate that.. its why they "fall away" from the type 1 soul child.



> *7. Which habit do you most automatically act on? Rank the following habits from most to least automatic, on a scale of 1 (most) to 3 (least).
> A.) work for personal gain with more concern for self than for others.
> B.) strive for a sense of tranquility in yourself and the world around you.
> C.) decide what is right for the betterment of something or someone else.*
> ...


I hate this stupid question with a passion



> *8. Where does the wandering mind take you? What provokes this?*
> 
> to places i'd like to go and people i either miss or i'd like to meet, where i am usually an "ideal" version of me (always). And when i am lost deep inside my mind, i am usually writing lines while sinking into my emotions at the same time. Sometimes i'm just trying to make sense of them in the attempt to understand myself and move on.


Sounds like me  or all 4s i think.



> *9.what makes you feel your best? What makes you feel your worst?*
> 
> best: When i express myself and when i take control of my life by following my passions. This usually happens when i am able to have a solid grasp of who i am and when i am able to handle my emotions. Makes me feel less lost. Also, when i happen to come across people i can really really connect with.


Hm. How do you lose a grasp of who you are and feel lost? Can you expand on this?



> Worst: When i fail at doing something or being something. When i get confused about what am i supposed to do with my life. When i literally lose all control in my life.


"Supposed to?" According to who?
How do you lose control?



> *10. Let's talk about emotions. Explain what might make you feel the following, how they feel to you or how you react to the emotion:
> 
> A.) anger*
> 
> i get angry when i am hurt emotionally and i get hurt easily. I get angry when there's injustice, i hate that dirt under the carpet. And i get angry when i am told something i feel, say or do is not "right" or "appropriate" or whatever, so when i am not allowed to be myself. I guess i turn on the other person and i literally try too hard to defy them, or hurt them back. When the anger is not caused by any other person, i just cry a lot and exercise to consume all the energy.


The whole "not allowed" thing... 7s don't notice expectations and/or scoff at them, but 6s often feel like they are being controlled or someone is trying to manipulate or control them or tell them who to be, so they mistype at 8 because they relate to "I fear being controlled." No core 8 would say they feared that because to them its not even a possibility - they innately ward against it. (Although I do think youre 8 fixed still, but I actually think its 468 at this point, in that order)



> *b.) shame*
> 
> i feel shame when i fail at being who i want to be, and fall back into my old self. I feel shame when i do not meet my standards. I feel shame when i look deep deep inside. When i feel shame, i hide from the world, i literally cut all contact until i get back on my feet again.


Same, sort of



> *c.) anxiety*
> 
> having no purpose and a sense of who i am. I either numb myself until i can no longer do it anymore and have to face what's underneath or do stupid shit, like throwing everything i worked for away.


Hmmm. How do you numb yourself? And how do you end up with no purpose or sense of who you are?

For me, it took losing my singing voice - which was my whole life - to lose my sense of purpose and who I am.



> * describe how you respond to the following:
> 
> A.) stress*
> 
> i am rarely stressed, because i hide all my problems somewhere in the back of my mind expecting them to solve themselves. Like, i really trust they will, otherwise they would eat me alive. When i do feel stressed, i fall deep into depression.


Wow.. I can't hide my problems.. hmm. How do you do that?



> *b.) negative unexpected change*
> 
> i get frustrated, but i still remain kind of optimistic that it will change for the better soon.


Do you take action to change it?



> *c.) conflict*
> 
> i get angry if i feel attacked (and i often do). I enjoy it only when i start it haha. It can be pretty scary if it's with someone i love and care about, but, ironically, i find myself starting it with the people i care about because i want to shake things up and see what's really underneath (used to do this unconsciously).


Feeling attacked, feeling scared by it, shaking people up to see what's underneath - these are all six traits. It's about finding the hidden intentions. Sixes also tend to feel attacked. I don't tend to feel attacked unless I'm being attacked, and sometimes I still don't notice until someone else tells me. I think people don't realize how full of themselves 7s are.



> *12. A.) what kind of role are you naturally inclined to take in a group? Why?*
> 
> last time i found myself in a group was during a class and i was coming up with all kinds of ideas (some silly and funny because i do that unconsciously because it's easier when people don't take things too seriously), so i'd say i am the creative one in a group, though i rarely find myself in one. I usually don't like being a part of something.


Sx/Sp.. social last likely.



> *b.) if put in power, how do you behave? Why?*
> 
> i think i consider everyone's opinions and feelings, because i don't like deciding for other people just like i don't like someone to decide for me.


I can't imagine anyone deciding for me. Again this is a 6 vs. 7 difference. Attachment types are sensitive to expectations and being "pushed" into things by others.



> *c.) do you tend to struggle with others who have authority over you? Why?*
> 
> always. It just irritates me greatly. What if i feel like they are wrong? I could never shut up.


I don't even notice authority and since I was small I've never believed anyone had authority over me. It's more that they were in my way. But I'd rather be nice and just get what I need from them. This is another 6 thing.. 6s have authority issues, generally, and like to challenge authority to get their point out. For 7s authority is just opportunity to take the next step. 7s are opportunists.



> *13. What do you see or notice in others that most people don't?*
> 
> i see hidden motives behind people's actions easily and i seem to always connect to someone's emotional state, and not really in an empathetic kind of way. I usually can tell when someone's lying. And most importantly, i am able to see the best version of someone, their potential (maybe it's because i am obsessed with becoming the best version of myself).


Hidden motives, lying, etc, seeking this stuff, its very 6.



> *14. Comment on your relationship with trust.*
> 
> we've never been friends. Once maybe, a long time ago, in childhood where everything begins. I cannot trust someone completely due to my fear of rejection and deep buried shame.


Thats a lot of trust issues but it fits a triple-reactive. ;D 468 I say. (in that order)



> *15. Briefly: What religious and/or political beliefs do you have? Do you think they influenced your responses in this questionnaire?*
> 
> i was never religious, i used to scare my mom because of my "lack of faith" as a kid. I see myself as a spiritual person, always in search for the truth.
> 
> As for political beliefs, libertarianism.


Ah I'm spiritual and libertarian too  <3

*Not sure if any of this is enneagram related though



> *16. Which of the following temptations do you find yourself acting upon the most? (and briefly state why)*
> 
> -to constantly push yourself to be “the best” (because it make me stand out);
> -to overuse imagination in searching for yourself (it's like i was born in my head and obsessed with who i am and who i am not );
> -to consider yourself entirely self-sufficient ( i always wanted to feel like an island, independent and self-sufficient, but i've realized independence and dependence are only extremes and that neither is the right answer ).


I take it for granted taht I stand out - as most 7s & 7 fixers do.
"born in your head.." Well 6s and 5s spend more time "in their head" while 7s tend to um... be at odds with over-thinking, even if they do it anyway. It's not the idea I'm nitpicking but rather, the phrasing is different than I would word it.
The last thing - same here



> *17. What's something you are: A.) thankful you have b.) wish you could have? Why?*
> 
> a.) emotional intelligence. Puts me in touch with who i am.
> 
> B.) more inner knowledge about myself, life, universe and everything that interests me. Because i want to understand everything, i want it all to make sense to me.


[/quote]

Hm. Why did you pick 3 wing over 5? Just curious.


So far I'm seeing 4, 6 . The gut triad here is a bit obscure but from other interactions and "overall vibe" (i mentioned some examples above) I lean 8w7. I'm curious to hear answers to the follow up questions.


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## Rala (Apr 1, 2015)

Animal said:


> This may sound trite, but I think it's more significant than it sounds... my burning desire is to follow my passions and where others are concerned, to inspire them. To be a symbol of something that inspires others to be true to their own visions, their own selves. I want my art to be a mirror in which others can see themselves. That is what I wrote in my typing thread.
> 
> And to me, that's more 7-centered. 478s are "The Messenger" because they are a symbol of something. Their vision, their ideals. I have helped people too but my aspiration is being a symbol. I have provided the most help that way. Even in writing about my struggles with illness on facebook, rather than simply writing facts... people have RELATED to me and been inspired because I sang through my whisper, more than I've tried or managed to help people in a more hands-on way, like returning emails from people who ask me to describe lyme symptoms. I try, but I just lose track..whereas being a symbol comes naturally, and people with other ailments tell me I inspired them to "get back up," and people with lyme tell me they figured out from me talking about myself, that they also have lyme. I notice this with other 478 tritypers too, regardless of which type comes first, though 8 core tends to be a more grounded protector so thats a little different.
> 
> ...


I feel like I am self-centered too. I can't even count the times I've been accused of being selfish (by my father too). I want to express myself and inspire others too, but I want to do that in such a way that it helps people, and so one of my main goals has always been becoming a better person, healthy and all. So I guess helping people IS a big desire of mine, but more so by inspiring through who I am and what I do, rather than in a hands-on way. Though, I'd love to do that too! 

I don't like Tori Amos or Marilyn Manson that much. Jeff Martin, on the other hand... haaha. I am actually talking about their music, though. 



Animal said:


> I never think about being forgotten. I don't want to die because I want to experience life forever. (This is 7ish.) What happens after death is not my concern unless my loved ones are involved. Of course it would be great to "live forever" through my work but thats not why I do it. I want to live the best life I can, stand for what I believe, be a vessel through which my ideals and passions emerge.. but leaving a legacy is not important to me. It is, however, important to three people I know well and all of them have 6 in their tritype. I have no idea if that is related to type, but it is a pattern that I've noticed. I don't know why!! and I am looking into the cause, if I can figure it out, if it's related or not.


Judging by what you said here, I am such a 6! I swear ever since I was little I was obsessed with this thought: I wanted to live forever through what I do and be remembered, I did not and do not want to just pass through life, I want to leave a trace, I want to leave my signature. I was always interested in what happens after death (one of the reasons I looked into spirituality) and more than wanting to live the best life I can, I want to know I have learned important things, even though my life would be a mess. Like, to clarify it more, I have always preferred to lead a challenging life and be proud I got through it all than a somehow pleasant one. 



Animal said:


> Normal?
> 
> Sounds a bit too familiar, the father description. 0.0
> 
> I'm not sure its enneagram related, but it does sound like the type 8 model for child-parent (active child, active parent)


LOL normal in the "we're-not-on-the-same-page-here-so-I-don't-care-what-you-think-anyway" way. It was because of her that I would run away from home when I was little (my father was away from home because of work all day, sometimes for days) because I just did not want to obey her most of the time. And we did have our fights, like.. I remember for a period of time I was so convinced she did not like me at all and I hated her, and I was accusing her of that all the time. She even cried a few times, but it's just that I was so convinced. I was 17 or 18, and that was a rough time in my life. I think that was also because as a little girl I was envious of the attention she would give to my little sister, and because we are so different and deep down I know she wanted me to be more like her, or more "normal". But I said normal because it doesn't even compare to my relationship with my dad, I used to put my dad on such a high pedestal. 



Animal said:


> Okay.. so people might say "trapped, oh, its a 7 trigger!" But theres an undercurrent here: its like someone else is trapping you. 7s fear of being trapped is so innate that they simply never feel like anyone can hold them down. 7s lost childhood message is "its ok to depend on other people" - most 4s can relate to that too - but 7s keep themselves independent habitually so that nothing can hold them down.
> 
> I'm literally trapped because I have a chronic illness but I don't FEEL trapped. My 7 rationalization and pride tells me that I chose to come back to my hometown because it was the best opportunity available given my restrictions for my illness. If I wanted to I could plow forth and go somewhere else, but this is the "best opportunity." That's 7 rationalization. Nobody can trap me. Just like nobody can tell a 4 who to be, or dominate an 8.
> 
> ...


If 7s lost childhood message is "it's okay to depend on other people", does that mean they feel bad for depending on other people? Because I sure feel.. not okay when I have to depend on others. But then again, I don't mind to depend on my dad still. Or should I say I did not.. until recently when I had a big fight with him. To explain it briefly, he said to me I don't appreciate the things he does for me, and that I can always leave if I don't like certain things, and what pissed me off was that he made me feel like what everything he ever did for me was because he HAD to, because he felt it was his duty and I should be more thankful. I also felt like he wasn't understanding my side at all and I turned everything into a big deal, telling him I have always despised him and etc. Truth is, in the moment, when something hurts me I just feel like it's the end of the world and that that little thing ruined everything, and I want to throw away everything.

Anyway, I feel like no one has the power to trap me either because the choice is always mine, but then again it does give me this weird anxiety when I think of being trapped, I feel it physically in my chest area actually. But then, I regain my confidence and deep down I know I have the strength to refuse any chains.



Animal said:


> I never thought about that. I was terrorized by the idea of having to work a mundane job or be part of this cruel world with all its meaningless rituals. I wrote books about prostitutes at age 11 because I was terrified of having to give myself to anyone I don't love.
> 
> Somehow I sense more "attachment triad" influence here, though I can't explain it concretely either.


I am terrorized by the thought of having to work a mundane job too. :/ I know I won't, though.



Animal said:


> The thought that someone wouldn't see me as being original or strong is unfathomable to me. (7 conceit maybe) .. 7s tend to be very aware of how unique they are and take it for granted. I do fear that people will view me as *insensitive* - that's a 478 problem according to the fauvres. As for beautiful.. yeah.. I really have a hard time believing anyone would think that of me ..
> 
> Every 6 i know says they want to be seen as unique. Another coincidence maybe.


Well, that does not mean I try, though. I don't put effort into it, I just fear sometimes that I may be straying too much from who I am, and who I am I know is original and unique.

I think you are beautiful. Both in and out. That makes you gorgeous.



Animal said:


> I don't notice this unless it's splat in my face because I'm way too self absorbed. Sixes do notice though, and Jeff Martin, a clear 468, sings about it too. Once I've seen it , it can't be unseen, but it takes a long time especially considering how strong my intuition is. I also don't see myself as someone who could be manipulated, so in my over-confidence I never worry about it. Most 7s don't until it hits them.


Oh, I do notice it and it's one of the things that make me angry the most because I would rather just have someone tell it in my face, straight-forward. I know I cannot be controlled either, but then I really makes me angry when someone actually think they can fuck with me and put me in my place. I'm like, bring it bitch. I don't think it's about proving to myself something, rather than proving myself. It kind of sounds the same, but what I mean is that I feel like I deserve to be on top because I deserve it and I deserve it because I am capable.



Animal said:


> I hate this stupid question with a passion


Hahaha.



Animal said:


> Hmmm. How do you numb yourself? And how do you end up with no purpose or sense of who you are?
> 
> For me, it took losing my singing voice - which was my whole life - to lose my sense of purpose and who I am.


I numb myself with food, movies, and usually by not thinking about it. I end up with no purpose when I go all negative when something just goes wrong. My purposes are not clear to me still. And I always felt like not having a solid picture in my mind of who I am no matter how much energy I invested in it. But then again I am a contradiction because I feel like I do know who I am after a long period of contemplation, it's just never enough for me. I'm an explosion of "I am that and that and that and that" but some times I feel so damn empty. Or foggy.



Animal said:


> Wow.. I can't hide my problems.. hmm. How do you do that?


I... ignore them? I distract myself. But that's no good because then I tend to get all depressed and stuff.



Animal said:


> Do you take action to change it?


I do. But I don't panic or something. I remember once there was a problem with the heating in the house back home during winter, and we were supposed to have a good time that night, and the whole house was freezing. I ruined all my plans, but I was just sitting there thinking "oh while this gets solved, I'll pretend I'm in Alaska or something."



Animal said:


> Feeling attacked, feeling scared by it, shaking people up to see what's underneath - these are all six traits. It's about finding the hidden intentions. Sixes also tend to feel attacked. I don't tend to feel attacked unless I'm being attacked, and sometimes I still don't notice until someone else tells me. I think people don't realize how full of themselves 7s are.


I ALWAYS look for hidden intentions. And most of the times it's because I just want to know them, I need to. I'm not sure it is because I fear being attacked, but rather because "Why do you think you have the right to attack me?" I think the reason I hate it and I react to it is because by attacking me, I feel like someone is not letting me be who I fucking am, I hate that someone would think they have the right to mold someone. They do not. And by the way, you wouldn't believe how full of myself I am too.  Sometimes I feel like I exaggerate too. I once said to my ex (the only one) that he should be proud he ever got to talk to me and kiss me and that he should pray to live a long life so that he can tell that grand but short story to his grandchildren. The guy hates me. XD But I told him that after he got me really mad.



Animal said:


> Sx/Sp.. social last likely.


If I'm not social last, then I don't know what I am haha. I am completely oblivious to anything that has to do with it.



Animal said:


> Thats a lot of trust issues but it fits a triple-reactive. ;D 468 I say. (in that order)


Funny you see 6 more than 8 in me. All I could relate to was 4 and 8. I could not relate to the 7 much either.



Animal said:


> Hm. Why did you pick 3 wing over 5? Just curious.
> 
> 
> So far I'm seeing 4, 6 . The gut triad here is a bit obscure but from other interactions and "overall vibe" (i mentioned some examples above) I lean 8w7. I'm curious to hear answers to the follow up questions.


Because the description of 4w3 is spot on for me, and I have a lot of 3 traits in me. You thought wing 5 because of the knowledge thing? I seek it because it helps me with finding out who I am, but the way I try to make up for my "damaged" self is in a 3ish way. I care a lot about how I look, and I am ambitious and I want to actually accomplish a lot of things in life and I am determined to. I am torn between my inner world and the outer world, I feel like I NEED to take my authentic inner world and throw it out there in the world. A lot of time I thought I may be bipolar lol. I can feel so miserable, and then so entitled and unstoppable. I feel superior and so confident sometimes, and other times so self-conscious. And I am all about an image, but an image based of who I REALLY am.

So you're seeing 468? Triple reactive? Oh crap...


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## Animal (May 29, 2012)

@Rala

I didn't see any wing in your first post, but now I see more 4w3 in your answers. Tremendous awareness of confidence.. the specific way you phrased it is 3ish.

I'd probably venture to guess 4w3 6wX 8w7 Sx/Sp ....

I have a very hard time putting this into words but even with your responses I still see 6 and not 7. It's so hard to point out the differences, because we are going to end up relating so much since we are both 4w3 Sx's with 8 fixes.

Your responses in the second post looked MUCH more 4ish than the original thread. I might not have picked 4 as your type if I didn't know you already, untili I saw the second post, at which point it's undeniable. Because all your doubts and anger and everything, keeps coming back to your identity and shame. 

I'll go in tomorrow (or later) when I'm more awake and try to point out more specifics or find better words to explain. I hope nobody else reads my explanations and tries to nitpick them with Ti or something because I will end up looking crazy, since most of what I wrote is based on observing real people, studying a lot of enneagram and seeing patterns, rather than concrete stuff.

But I will try to word it better if I can.


There's still some anger and anxiety about being trapped or people impressing their will upon you. Remember Amy Lee is a 6..







There are so many songs about this topic, about independence. Also, sixes can be just as cocky and confident as 7s if not more, but it's a different kind of confidence. Sevens just have more confidence that nobody could tie them down, so it's a non issue. I'm going to see if my INTP 6 friend can set this straight because I'm pretty confident she'll see what I see but perhaps word it better...


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## Rala (Apr 1, 2015)

Animal said:


> @Rala
> 
> I didn't see any wing in your first post, but now I see more 4w3 in your answers. Tremendous awareness of confidence.. the specific way you phrased it is 3ish.
> 
> ...


Thanks a lot! My Te gets you perfectly


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## Animal (May 29, 2012)

It's like this:

7:












These artists have a way of 'making fun of themselves.' Sixes are more edgy and desperate. Their music is often more appealing to me for this reason.

6:


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## Rala (Apr 1, 2015)

Animal said:


> It's like this:
> 
> 7:
> 
> ...


If I were to choose, I'd choose the 6ish songs. I like some of Fiona's songs, but I never liked that one in particular.


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## Animal (May 29, 2012)

6w7


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