# Enneatypes and Upbringing or significant trauma?



## Vanitas (Dec 13, 2009)

> My childhood is what I consider to be hollow; an overly neutral mess, nothing.


Here too. Not that messed up/ miserable, but definitely falling short of idyllic. I was pretty much left to do whatever I wanted. 



> Also, wouldn't having such parents mean that all siblings, whether there be two, three or more, be the same enneagram type?


As far as I can tell, though some make the effort not to, parents treat different children differently. A mother that's overbearing to one child could be dismissive to the other. If using the 'formula' argument, it still can apply, depending on how _that_ one child view the parent(s).


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## madhatter (May 30, 2010)

Lav said:


> I read that paragraph, passed it through the filter of my own mind, and thought that it was inaccurate. Now you are free to agree with this or not.


That's fine. I don't have an opinion one way or another yet, myself. I'm new to the Enneagram. I just wanted to see both sides of the issue.



Lav said:


> But on the light side I'd say that this incident portrays that you are pretty confidently an ENFP, since even your dual rushed to your aid. Nevermind..


Duality schmality...Pink's one of my peeps.


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## susurration (Oct 22, 2009)

skycloud86 said:


> Also, wouldn't having such parents mean that all siblings, whether there be two, three or more, be the same enneagram type?


No because how a child manifests relies on both nature and nurture and a dynamic interplay between the internal and external- genes are the gun, the environment is the trigger. Also no child would be guranteed to turn out the same because, members of families tend to play different roles, and the interplay of different personalities tends to dictate these 'roles'. For instance, in a dysfunctional household you may have a child who seeks to be a third parent, and the child who seeks to be 'invisible'.

I tend to think early childhood influences have -the most- effect on the manifestation of a child (because basline personality is said to develop by age 3 I think it is), but that is only the 'phenotype' per se. Internal factors are the 'genotype'. Parents 'bring out' certain predispositions in the child. I would say that ultimately, early experiences shape how an inherent type might turn out, but the child already has a baseline personality programmed. 

I suppose the more vivid the early child experience, the greater the impact and influence (abuse of all kinds is very damaging). Though, certain children may have traits that predispose them to being more impacted than other children. For instance, in a dysfunctional family, if there are 3 siblings, each one is going to experience the trauma differently. One child may become angry and hostile because they are inherently aggressive and another child might be seriously psychologically damaged because they are inherently more sensitive. 

I think the psychodynamic stream of psychology would also argue that early childhood experiences mold the unconscious. Early experiences and memories (though most of us wouldn't remember a lot of things) significantly shape how we respond to the world and ourselves. Children are like sponges, so even the most subtle of experiences can impact a child.

(I don't think these typologies cover every base of psychology at all, so I tend to draw lines between what enneagram may be able to explain and what other things may better be able to explain. For example, I separate things like attachment theory, and personality disorders from the enneagram, by looking at the origins of these tendencies. Same goes for the experience of abuse- It's not the trauma that I would be assessing, it's how you automatically went about trying to deal with it, and what effects of it were peculiar to your own personality, because not every person is going to be impacted in the same way).


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

susurration said:


> I tend to think early childhood influences have -the most- effect on the manifestation of a child (because basline personality is said to develop by age 3 I think it is), but that is only the 'phenotype' per se. Internal factors are the 'genotype'. Parents 'bring out' certain predispositions in the child.


When my daughter was growing up, therapists were always claiming personality was developed by age 5 or 6. Obviously this is according to what theory you ascribe to and I realize you did mention "phenotype". 

However, as a musician I was more worried about the perfect pitch window which was supposedly until age 8 :tongue:

I was just reading through Notes website and found they had these descriptions of personality theories to offer: Notebook

You won't find much on enneagram but it's a good read.


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## susurration (Oct 22, 2009)

pinkrasputin said:


> When my daughter was growing up, therapist were always claiming personality was developed by age 5 or 6. Obviously this is according to what theory you ascribe to and I realize you did mention "phenotype".
> 
> However, as a musician I was more worried about the perfect pitch window which was supposedly until age 8 :tongue:
> 
> ...


Child develop is really interesting! I wish more parents would take the development of their children more seriously. I think the first few years are most important, but really every year a child is in your care you are guiding their development. 

You're perfect pitch comment cracked me up pink. I wish you were my mum  I tried to make my younger sisters pick up instruments when they were younger. Unfortunately one is an intj and the other is an exxj, so they were always incredibly defiant and independent and even as children only attempted things they themselves wanted to do! joke is on the exxj though, because she suddenly decided she is now interested in piano. All those years of subtle 'brainwashing' about the importance of music has paid off! i'm glad she thinks it was all her idea...


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## Lav (Feb 3, 2011)

I found these somewhere:



> Childhood origin of the types
> 
> Type One: The Reformer: Disconnected from father-figure.
> 
> ...



First question that comes to mind is what does "ambivalent" in this context mean. Does it mean a love-hate relationship? And "connected/disconnected"?

Some other thoughts I have:

So if a child's personality is stable at age 3, it would mean that these fixations occur within that stage (0-3), right?

I've noticed that for example, threes seem to have unresolved "oedipal complexes", while twos have unresolved "electra complexes" (these are arguable on their own). I don't know if this is purely coincidental or if the fixations causes the complex, or if the complex is completely independent from the fixations, OR if the complex causes the fixation.

Or could it mean that being a 2 or 3 is always pathological? Is everything a pathology, only that it becomes so when it "interferes with the normal functioning of the individual in society" (whatever this means)? What happens if a child from age 0 to age 3 doesn't get fixated in any way? you get a "blank" person? What is the 'default baby personality'? 9? IS everyone that is not a nine traumatized in some way? Seems ironic to me, seeing how nines tend to behave in the average levels.


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## Holunder (May 11, 2010)

Lav said:


> First question that comes to mind is what does "ambivalent" in this context mean. Does it mean a love-hate relationship? And "connected/disconnected"?


Here are some detailed descriptions:

http://personalitycafe.com/type-1-forum-reformer/8294-type-1-parental-orientation.html
http://personalitycafe.com/type-2-forum-helper/8289-type-2-parental-orientation.html
http://personalitycafe.com/type-3-forum-achiever/8290-type-3-parental-orientation.html
http://personalitycafe.com/type-4-forum-individualist/8291-type-4-parental-orientation.html
http://personalitycafe.com/type-5-forum-investigator/8288-type-5-parental-orientation.html
http://personalitycafe.com/type-6-forum-loyalist/8286-type-6-parental-orientation.html
http://personalitycafe.com/type-7-forum-enthusiast/8287-type-7-parental-orientation.html
http://personalitycafe.com/type-8-forum-challenger/8292-type-8-parental-orientation.html
http://personalitycafe.com/type-9-forum-peacemaker/8293-type-9-parental-orientation.html


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## timeless (Mar 20, 2010)

I was raised by an 8 and a 5, and I ended up having both in my tritype. :0


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## mickey (Jan 7, 2011)

I'd like to think that I've 'become' what I am and not that I was born it- because I feel like I have logical justification for the way I work (observed real world reasons for being the way I am). I also have this sense of having 'changed' since I was a kid. But when I think about it as objectively as possible, I come to the conclusion that I have a sort of distance from myself, like I never see myself really. And then when I string my behaviors together I find that I have always behaved similarly and can expect to continue to do so. This actually bothers me because it makes me feel like I don't have control over it (esp. considering each and every time I repeat behaviors, I don't see myself repeating ANYTHING until later). So my plan is to TOTALLY KNOW myself. But this is difficult.


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## unico (Feb 3, 2011)

I think I would have always been a 4, but I did have feelings of abandonment by my parents, largely because they didn't know how to treat me (and thought I was just misbehaving) when really I had autism. Also my father was a severely (untreated) mentally ill alcoholic and my mother was his enabler.


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