# You know you're using Si when......



## Agent Blackout (Mar 1, 2012)

zenity said:


> Yeah, you'd think so, wouldn't you? It's hard to describe.
> 
> It's more about the concept of the memory being a recreation of the experience that seems wrong. The experience was as it was, it's already happened, it can't happen _again_. So the closer you come to the memory resembling actual experience, the more wrong it becomes. Like the memory itself has this kind of undead quality to it.
> 
> It's a little bit like the uncanny valley effect, but not quite.


Looool. I see.


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## Mizmar (Aug 12, 2009)

zenity said:


> It's more about the concept of the memory being a recreation of the experience that seems wrong. The experience was as it was, it's already happened, it can't happen _again_. So the closer you come to the memory resembling actual experience, the more wrong it becomes. Like the memory itself has this kind of undead quality to it.


Memories can have ghostly quality for me too, but I find it a basically pleasant experience. There's a longing for the past...it's like I want to grab onto the memory, to hold it but I can't because it's a ghost! I often feel I'm _drowning_ in the memory or the sense of longing that accompanies it. Then I put on some melancholic music to listen to.


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## Adasta (Nov 22, 2011)

AbioticPrime said:


> I guess INFPs have it worst of all ;p


Spot on, my friend.

But it's really useful when dealing with art/literature.


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## Adasta (Nov 22, 2011)

zenity said:


> Yeah, you'd think so, wouldn't you? It's hard to describe.
> 
> It's more about the concept of the memory being a recreation of the experience that seems wrong. The experience was as it was, it's already happened, it can't happen _again_. So the closer you come to the memory resembling actual experience, the more wrong it becomes. Like the memory itself has this kind of undead quality to it.
> 
> It's a little bit like the uncanny valley effect, but not quite.


Close but no cigar.

Si actually presents the memory to me in greater detail then when I first experienced it. That might sound strange, but when I relive the past, I see it/feel it in a more distilled fashion. Imagine a film where a scene takes place and music plays in the background. If you replace the music with pure emotion, that's sort of like what is experienced.

It's beautiful in a way, and I feel lucky to be able to feel the depth of a specific moment to the extent that I know it fully. However, it can be quite tragic, since you can never get it back. The feeling of longing comes from the fact that you experience your memories as timeless, but life as timebound. Therefore, one oscillates between the desire to recreate the past moment, and the anxiety of that never occurring in the unknowable future.


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## Mizmar (Aug 12, 2009)

Adasta said:


> Si actually presents the memory to me in greater detail then when I first experienced it. That might sound strange, but when I relive the past, I see it/feel it in a more distilled fashion. Imagine a film where a scene takes place and music plays in the background. If you replace the music with pure emotion, that's sort of like what is experienced.
> 
> It's beautiful in a way, and I feel lucky to be able to feel the depth of a specific moment to the extent that I know it fully. However, it can be quite tragic, since you can never get it back. The feeling of longing comes from the fact that you experience your memories as timeless, but life as timebound. Therefore, one oscillates between the desire to recreate the past moment, and the anxiety of that never occurring in the unknowable future.


That was an excellent description!

For me there's also anxiety in not knowing how much of the memory is authentic and how much is my own mind filling in blanks. I want to fully relive it but I don't know how much of it is truly lost to me. I mean, sometimes when I look at a photo of someone I'm taken back by how different they look (or looked) in actuality, compared to the impression of them that exists in my mind. There's this sense of "oh yeah, _that's_ what she looked like." So I know my memory is limited in how accurately it can recall detail and there's a great sadness in knowing that. It makes the past seem all the more inaccessible, untouchable.


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## Sayonara (May 11, 2012)

AbioticPrime said:


> You know you use Si when you have a hard time letting go of things both spiritually and physically, and the ladder ends up taking up a lot of space in your closet(s) and garage(s)


Good call on the spiritual...I find those the hardest memories to shake. Even when they're positive and have overall bettered me as a person, the memory is still so powerful.


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## Laney (Feb 20, 2012)

When someone presents change and your gut reaction is to cling on to what you know.


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## zenity (Nov 6, 2011)

Adasta said:


> Close but no cigar.


Ummm ... okay.  No need to be rude, man.

I wasn't trying to give a universal description of Si; I was trying to relate how I and possibly other Ni-doms experience this particular quality of memory when it is so removed from the consciousness.

Maybe it's not particularly relevent to how _you_ experience it, because it's much more in your awareness.


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## Adasta (Nov 22, 2011)

zenity said:


> Ummm ... okay.  No need to be rude, man.
> 
> I wasn't trying to give a universal description of Si; I was trying to relate how I and possibly other Ni-doms experience this particular quality of
> 
> ...


Don't be so touchy. There's nothing rude about that statement at all. It's a well-known expression.


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## zenity (Nov 6, 2011)

Adasta said:


> Don't be so touchy. There's nothing rude about that statement at all. It's a well-known expression.


??? How does the commonality of an expression have anything to do with rudeness?

Anyways, thanks for ignoring the rest of my comment :dry:


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## Adasta (Nov 22, 2011)

zenity said:


> How does the commonality of an expression have anything to do with rudeness?


Because the association highlights the ludicrousness of your initial objection?

Also, I noted the rest of your comment, but I didn't feel compelled to respond to it. However, since you seem at least mildly perturbed by that, I'll respond:

The first sentence of your post implied that you were describing your conception of Si. If you were in fact describing Ni, that wasn't clear. Therefore, I elaborated on how Si operates. @_Mizmar_ was gracious enough to compliment me on the description, so I at least feel I was justified in elaborating.

I'm still not sure why you got so bent out of shape by the "no cigar" comment. As an INxP (tertiary Si user), one would expect me to have a better grasp of its operation (at least within the caveat of tertiary function) than an INFJ.


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## zenity (Nov 6, 2011)

Adasta said:


> Because the association highlights the ludicrousness of your initial objection?
> 
> Also, I noted the rest of your comment, but I didn't feel compelled to respond to it. However, since you seem at least mildly perturbed by that, I'll respond:
> 
> ...


The context: The function of Si in the Demonic position has often been described as "haunting", which was brought up several times in the thread. So when I described Si as experiential zombiesm, it was in reference to this. When I further elaborated on why I think of it this way, I meant it very much to be in this context, of Si being so far removed from the conscious experience that it expresses itself in an entirely different manner. I apologize if this wasn't clear.

We're all experiencing our cognitive functions filtered through the lens of our dominant function, at the very least. So being of different types, we're going to have very different understandings of how we experience any individual function.

As for having a better grasp of its operation in general? Absolutely, I'm sure you do. To be honest, I find Si pretty alien, which was kinda the whole point Beebe was making when he described the 8th function as demonic.

I understand that you're not about to get why I was so frustrated, but whatever. That's okay.

FWIW, I do think your elaboration was both well thought-out and beautifully put; thanks for including it.

EDIT: Apologies for the threadjacking and drama, folks.


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## Adasta (Nov 22, 2011)

zenity said:


> The context: The function of Si in the Demonic position has often been described as "haunting", which was brought up several times in the thread. So when I described Si as experiential zombiesm, it was in reference to this. When I further elaborated on why I think of it this way, I meant it very much to be in this context, of Si being so far removed from the conscious experience that it expresses itself in an entirely different manner. I apologize if this wasn't clear.
> 
> We're all experiencing our cognitive functions filtered through the lens of our dominant function, at the very least. So being of different types, we're going to have very different understandings of how we experience any individual function.


Yes, I think this is all true. INFPs generally retrieve only the Si sense-data that relates to their prior feelings, e.g. "I remember it was a sunny day and that made me feel happy." We do not use Si as an organisational tool in the way Si-doms do: they use Si to organise and categorise data in the present (or near-past) based on how things played out previously.



zenity said:


> As for having a better grasp of its operation in general? Absolutely, I'm sure you do. To be honest, I find Si pretty alien, which was kinda the whole point Beebe was making when he described the 8th function as demonic.


Yeah, I think Ni plays this role in INFPs, so I can relate to your sentiment. With Ni, I am never able to trust in one line of thinking as almost certain to occur; I suppose Ne always tells me that things can change, or that I could be wrong. Although I can use Ni to tell me what is likely to occur, I never feel confident in my gut that it *will* occur exactly the way I think. Rather, I combine it with Si and say "Things happened like this before, so I think they could happen this way again."



zenity said:


> FWIW, I do think your elaboration was both well thought-out and beautifully put; thanks for including it.


Thanks!


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## Ellis Bell (Mar 16, 2012)

... they discontinue making a favorite product you've been using for years and you're the one who complains the most about it.

... a smell, sight, or sound in the present immediately triggers a memory of something related from the past.

... when random people you meet in the street resemble people you were acquainted with years ago.


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## Ellis Bell (Mar 16, 2012)

... when you can remember random facts like the birthdays of people you don't know all that well.


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