# How do the different Hidden Agendas manifest?



## Bash (Nov 19, 2014)

As above


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## ShuttleRun (Jan 5, 2017)

Ti - Wanting to understand
Te - Wanting to know
Fi - Wanting to love
Fe - Wanting to be loved
Si - Wanting to be healthy
Se - Wanting to be wealthy
Ni: Wanting to believe
Ne: Wanting to be perfect


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## Lord Fenix Wulfheart (Aug 18, 2015)

You know, if Fi is wanting to love and Fe is wanting to be loved, why isn't Ti wanting to know and Te wanting to be known? (as in, being know for getting things done or something)

Why is Ti to understand and Te to know, if Te is Business Logic? Wanting to know and wanting to understand both seem to be two sides of the same coin to me.

Also, relevant to OP: Socionics - the16types.info - The Hidden Agenda and Point of Least Resistance (PoLR)


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## Bash (Nov 19, 2014)

ShuttleRun said:


> Ti - Wanting to understand
> Fi - Wanting to love
> Te - Wanting to know
> Fe - Wanting to be loved
> ...


Thank you!


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## ShuttleRun (Jan 5, 2017)

Lord Fenix Wulfheart said:


> You know, if Fi is wanting to love and Fe is wanting to be loved, why isn't Ti wanting to know and Te wanting to be known? (as in, being know for getting things done or something)
> 
> Why is Ti to understand and Te to know, if Te is Business Logic? Wanting to know and wanting to understand both seem to be two sides of the same coin to me.


Well I guess "to know" is kind of vague, so it's more like wanting to gain knowledge and collect facts, which is usually what the EXFps do. I don't think Te is much concerned with being acknowledged, since it doesn't concern with people.

Ti is more like wanting to understand how it works, its logic, while Te is more like just facts, the overall results.

Ti-Fe types often only focus on how it works and its logical consistency, over facts or empiricism. While for Te-Fi types, it's the opposite.


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## ShuttleRun (Jan 5, 2017)

Oops, forgot the Ni and Ne:

Ni: Wanting to believe
Ne: Wanting to be perfect


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## Lord Fenix Wulfheart (Aug 18, 2015)

ShuttleRun said:


> Well I guess "to know" is kind of vague, so it's more like wanting to gain knowledge and collect facts, which is usually what the EXFps do. I don't think Te is much concerned with being acknowledged, since it doesn't concern with people.
> 
> Ti is more like wanting to understand how it works, its logic, while Te is more like just facts, the overall results.
> 
> Ti-Fe types often only focus on how it works and its logical consistency, over facts or empiricism. While for Te-Fi types, it's the opposite.


That seems so strange. All the Ti and Te HAs I have known like to have facts and to understand both. I think there is more to this HA than just that.

Type 5 in Enneagram plays into this. 5s want to be good at both of those things.


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## ShuttleRun (Jan 5, 2017)

Well I think IXFps tend to be light on facts, and EXFps tend to be light on logic. HA is kind of more compulsive, you know that you're weak in those areas so you kind of overcompensate by focusing on them.

Well 5s are usually T types, so they have both strong Te and Ti.


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## Lord Fenix Wulfheart (Aug 18, 2015)

ShuttleRun said:


> Well I think IXFps tend to be light on facts, and EXFps tend to be light on logic. HA is kind of more compulsive, you know that you're weak in those areas so you kind of overcompensate by focusing on them.
> 
> Well 5s are usually T types, so they have both strong Te and Ti.


From what I have seen, 5 is also common among those with a logical HA, though moreso with those with Ti HA specifically for some reason. Maybe I just don't understand Te HA at all.


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## To_august (Oct 13, 2013)

HA is usually connected with self-esteem, because the function is interesting but relatively weak. If people take initiative on their HA, they expect others to support them, and if it doesn't happen they may feel alienated. People expect support and advice from others, while criticism is very unpleasant and is perceived as being personal, affecting one's self-esteem, whereas praise is perceived as the best compliment. This applies to all IEs correspondingly.


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## Verity (Aug 2, 2014)

Lord Fenix Wulfheart said:


> That seems so strange. All the Ti and Te HAs I have known like to have facts and to understand both. I think there is more to this HA than just that.
> 
> Type 5 in Enneagram plays into this. 5s want to be good at both of those things.


This is how I tend to look at them:

Te HA can manifest as the person in class taking notes of everything a teacher says and remembering exactly how say, a mathemathical system looks externally and the commonly used method used to employ it, but the person is unable to understand the deeper logical relationships and why it works that way. It can therefore be seen as a broad but shallow understanding that's only sweeping over the surface by Ti-valuing types.

Ti HA is the other way around, where the person has trouble understanding the common use of the system and it's definitions, trying instead to pick it apart to understand the specifics down to the tiniest level. This is why Ti can seem overly nitpicky by Te-valuing types and the purpose might seem very vague, but that's because there is no other purpose other than to understand things in the most detailed way possible. 

Enneagram is not in essence related to the strength of any IE, although I'll admit that Te-HA can on a surface level be similar to e7 in it's search for broad common knowledge which can be attributed to wanting to experience as much as possible(fundamentally this is related to avoidance of pain though, which is completely unrelated to Te-HA), just like e5 seeks to understand the world in order to be able to handle it(which is related to wanting to fill one's inner sense of emptiness, which is not related to Ti-Ha...). I dunno if you implied that they are related, but I just thought I'd put that out there.


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## FlaviaGemina (May 3, 2012)

Si - obsessions with strange diets and conspiracy theories regarding health

Te - getting impatient and angry when you don't understand something, but being unable to admit it and ask for clarification; a thirst for detailed data, even completely meaningless data (ESFp - so probably Se is the main cause of this); preference for jargon, managerese, rare/ pretentious vocabulary, but a small range of favourite words that get repeated etc.;
Inability to admit you don't know, in order to appear competent (Enneagram 3)

Fi - beating yourself up when you dislike someone without an obvious or logical reason, trying to overrule/ ignore that dislike

Fe - trolling to get any kind of attention, even negative attention, wanting to be popular with any group of people, even if you have a low opinion of them; bitching that your entourage is inferior, but being unable to disassociate yourself from them; indicating that you want support/ affection but reacting badly when people offer it (might be Enneagram 8, as well).

Ne - demanding that others should provide entertainment and variety, while following a fairly structured/ old fashioned lifestyle oneself

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## Rabid Seahorse (Mar 10, 2015)

There's been discussions about the "pathetic hidden agenda" and how we like to think we are strong in this area when in reality we're not very good at it and it's obvious to people around us that we aren't. Here are some examples:

Si HA- Going on a diet but drinking lots of alcohol/ using drugs and expecting to still be healthy.

Fe HA- Trying to show off your social skills / popularity and making an ass out of yourself in the process.

Ti HA- Overanalyzing simple concepts and oversimplifying complex ones, not getting good insight about intellectual problems.

Ni HA- Trying to be farsighted and timely but constantly shooting yourself in the foot (acting too impulsively or waiting too long for an opportunity)

Ne HA- Trying to be creative and original but only making basic connections and puns.

Te HA- Trying to show off your knowledge and efficiency but mostly just spewing a bunch of random facts that don't link well together.

Se HA- Wannabe "tough guy" behavior.


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