# Do you think the school system affects SPs in a negative way?



## LittleOrange

I think school system the way it is nowadays doesn´t encourage SP strengths, but is rather forcing them to develope N and T. It doesn´t give them enough freedom to move and create, that´s why a lot of SPs are fidgeting in the classroom (cause they have the need to move but are prevented) or are labeled as having ADD. A lot of them get depressed or just start to ignore school and hang out with the "bad" company, because other than school they have nothing to live out their Se. Of course, some of them are lucky and find themselfs in sports or some activity beside the school which saves them, but generally what do you think? Do you think the school system affects SPs negatively?


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## Max

@LittleOrange - I see where you're coming from. In my opinion, the system seems to focus much more on academic-based merits such as SATs, GCSEs , Honors etc. Whilst they look good on paper, most of the time, they're useless as hell in reality. Learning theory is all very well, but what most people forget about is 'application of theory'. To me, if you can't use it in everyday life, why study it? 

As an ESTP, I find practicality more useful than theorizing. I'm not built for reading large chunks of text and memorizing every last detail of it. I can't concentrate on boring tasks for long periods of time. If I lose interest, I go off and do something else. I think the school systems should add in more vocational-based themes to subjects such as science and math to involve everyone and make it more fair. 

An ISFP should have as fair a chance of passing, say Science as an INTJ does.


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## Fat Bozo

Yes.


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## something987

LittleOrange said:


> I think school system the way it is nowadays doesn´t encourage SP strengths, but is rather forcing them to develope N and T. It doesn´t give them enough freedom to move and create, that´s why a lot of SPs are fidgeting in the classroom (cause they have the need to move but are prevented) or are labeled as having ADD. A lot of them get depressed or just start to ignore school and hang out with the "bad" company, because other than school they have nothing to live out their Se. Of course, some of them are lucky and find themselfs in sports or some activity beside the school which saves them, but generally what do you think? Do you think the school system affects SPs negatively?


No I don't think so, the opposite really. The school system is designed for sensors, and SJs in particular, because we are the majority. NTJs might have it easier but NTPs, particularly ENTPs do not. Ne is confined in a school system and as Wontlookdown said, everything is oriented toward standardized testing. And, NFs are probably the least adjusted type for our education system, especially NFPs. Grade school is Ne's worst nightmare and they tend to do better in college, whereas Se will at least have sports and social activities to satisfy their interests.


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## LittleOrange

@Wontlookdown: what do you mean by vocational-based themes?

And @Yeahright: I don´t really agree, NFPs usually like school and go all the way to phDs. But I understand that school systems are different in different countries. I´m not American, and the school system in my country is perfect for ENTJs in my opinion. Next are NTPs and NFs....SJs can get along, usually because of social activities....


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## Max

@LittleOrange - More skills based, practical courses being available at younger ages. And less theory.

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## XZ9

SP's only care about knowledge if it as a practical application. If it doesn't, they'll stop caring. They'll fail school because they don't care. Intuitives on the other hand will pursue knowledge even if it has no practical purpose. SJ's do will the work just that's what they're expected to do. SJ's in my opinion have the stupidest reason for motivation to do work. Here's a case scenario with a book for them to read. 

SP's ask: Why should I care?
N's would ask: It has no practical purpose but I find it interesting anyways.
SJ's would approach it by: I will read this book because that's what I'm expected to do!


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## Max

Great_Thinker said:


> SP's only care about knowledge if it as a practical application. If it doesn't, they'll stop caring. They'll fail school because they don't care. Intuitives on the other hand will pursue knowledge even if it has no practical purpose. SJ's do will the work just that's what they're expected to do. SJ's in my opinion have the stupidest reason for motivation to do work. Here's a case scenario with a book for them to read.
> 
> SP's ask: Why should I care?
> N's would ask: It has no practical purpose but I find it interesting.
> SJ's would approach it by: I will read this book because that's what I'm expected to do!


Exactly. I don't get the point in learning advanced theories and all that crap if you can't apply it in everyday life. Why learn the stuff you don't need? I see that as a waste of time. 

If someone explains something to me, I honestly don't get it unless I can do it. Or else see detailed imagery. 

And Science and Math? Forget it. I get lost easily. But English, I understand it better. I liked lunch time and home time the best at school. They were the most practical related subjects for me. 

Lol. Even P.E sucked. It was too controlled. I like doing my own thing when I wanna.

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## kannbrown

Which means SJ's do best. I hear they're the majority, so no surprise. And as an NT, can say, 'learn this rote set of data you can regurgitate on a standardized test without context, and exactly as you're told' doesn't tend to fit my 'interesting' criteria. Saved mostly by a good memory, ability to sometimes pull the answers out of the nether regions (sometimes I have no clue why I know something) and fear of consequences to drive me to complete work, often at the last minute in a panic, saved my GPA.


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## LittleOrange

Wontlookdown said:


> Lol. Even P.E sucked. It was too controlled. I like doing my own thing when I wanna.


Lol, yeah, I agree 

Also, the best way for me to learn is either by doing (experience) or reading. I honestly cannot listen to someone talking for an hour, I tend to zone out and either be like "Oh, look, there´s a fly!" or just daydream. I never learned anything in the classroom. What´s the point of it anyway? I always waited to go home and then read about it on my own. 

I think SPs also need an instant gratification, reward for their work. If you go to school and get a diploma after, say 8 years, SPs will probably be demotivated. Because, who knows what´s gonna happen in 8 years! I want something now! I have no idea, how that could be accomplished though...


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## Max

LittleOrange said:


> Lol, yeah, I agree


I tried to get out at lunchtime though. It was hard to.

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## Ghostsoul

Great_Thinker said:


> SP's only care about knowledge if it as a practical application. If it doesn't, they'll stop caring. They'll fail school because they don't care. Intuitives on the other hand will pursue knowledge even if it has no practical purpose. SJ's do will the work just that's what they're expected to do. SJ's in my opinion have the stupidest reason for motivation to do work. Here's a case scenario with a book for them to read.
> 
> SP's ask: Why should I care?
> N's would ask: It has no practical purpose but I find it interesting anyways.
> SJ's would approach it by: I will read this book because that's what I'm expected to do!


That seems very generalized.
Not all SP's or SJ's or N's are like that.


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## monemi

The school system is very negative toward SP's. I can't think properly sitting down! I do my best thinking standing up and wandering around. My last computer was a desktop and I barely used it because I had to sit at my desk. This doesn't work well for me. Now I have a laptop that I can perch at waist height on kitchen counters, the bit cabinet or on the half wall. I'm not chained to a desk. I had one awesome teacher when I was small who let me stand at my desk while I worked but that was at a school for deaf children. Regular school, they can be total asses about you wanting to stand. And God forbid you want to stand while you write a test! 

School's just aren't fair to SP's.


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## XZ9

Ghostsoul said:


> That seems very generalized.
> Not all SP's or SJ's or N's are like that.


Not SP's,SJ's or N's are like that but it's a generalization. SP's only care about theory or knowledge if a has a practical use. N's learn the knowledge if it's interesting. SJ's just do it because that's what they're expected to do. I say this because SJ's like to uphold tradition just because it's a pastime. School is a pastime to be uphold.


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## monemi

Great_Thinker said:


> Not SP's,SJ's or N's are like that but it's a generalization. SP's only care about theory or knowledge if a has a practical use. N's learn the knowledge if it's interesting. SJ's just do it because that's what they're expected to do. I say this because SJ's like to uphold tradition just because it's a pastime. School is a pastime to be uphold.


Theory and knowledge don't have to be practical be interesting for SP's. When will you stop repeating something that isn't true?


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## Eudaimonia

It used to be if a child couldn't sit still in primary school he or she was sent to dance class. There was a famous choreographer (I believe her name was Agnes de Mille) who's mother took her to see the doctor because she couldn't pay attention in class and he tested her and said that she had perfect rhythm she should go to dance class instead of sitting at a desk.

Just think what would have happened to her if they gave out Ritalin in the 1930s-50s.


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## LittleOrange

I kind of agree with Great_Thinker....evan if I have interest in psychology, philosophy, science,etc. I always look for practical implication. For example, I like learning about psychology and philosophy to help myself and other people with their life problems. That is a pretty practical approach. But then again, with art Im different. I think art has a mean of its own, I really support larpurlartism, as it´s an expression and it doesn´t need to make sense.


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## monemi

LittleOrange said:


> I kind of agree with Great_Thinker....evan if I have interest in psychology, philosophy, science,etc. I always look for practical implication. For example, I like learning about psychology and philosophy to help myself and other people with their life problems. That is a pretty practical approach. But then again, with art Im different. I think art has a mean of its own, I really support larpurlartism, as it´s an expression and it doesn´t need to make sense.


Currently, I have no practical use for scientific theories, but I still take an interest in some of them. I have an interest in aircraft, but no practical use for it. I'm interested in a good many things that I have no practical use for. I am good at taking a theory and finding a practical use for it. But I didn't become interested initially for practical uses.


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## LittleOrange

Ok, well, if I think about it, I can count a lot of "physical" interest of mine that have no practical implication, but are just for fun, like swimming or dancing, or as I already mentioned, art. Is that what you mean? Like, activites? Other than science that you already mentioned...


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## aendern

Yes, no doubt. It was very obvious in the public school I attended that Se was not desirable in the classroom.

I did naturally _very_ well in school, and I can assure you it wasn't because I worked hard. (For I surely did not!). 

And I never bought into the whole "wow you're really smart" bullshit. 

I just naturally thunk in a way that was *unfairly* designed for doing well in school.


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