# IQ



## nreynolds1990 (Jan 8, 2012)

What is everyone's feelings on IQ? I have mixed feelings about it, generally I do think it represents a general "intelligence" but I'm left asking myself what is an intelligence really? What exactly is the IQ test measuring? How quick you think? How fast you solve a problem? Your aptitude in mathematics? I think that all these things generally constitute what we would consider to be an intelligent person. Maybe its not the IQ itself I have a mixed feeling about but the test. I've taken tests before and I have always scored very high since I was a small child but the test is timed and I know when you can't see how much time you have you are more concerned with not having enough time to answer your question than you are actually solving the question. Also I think it depends on the day you take it, when you take it, and your mood. 

I have taken the same tests (online ones, I have taken online and offline ones, easier to retake an online one) and received different results some slightly higher some slightly lower, but all within the ballpark of each other. 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that in the end the IQ number is essentially meaningless. I think it does nothing really other than give you a smug sense of superiority for a while if you score really high. I do think that there is a rate of intelligence however, but I'm not so sure any test (especially ones that are multiple choice) can truly accurately measure that. I personally base my definition of intelligence on a few things: ability to reason effectively and aptitude for problem solving particularly difficult problems through reasoning. Ability to understand, comprehend, and retain information that is not always easy to understand (i.e. sciences, mathematics. Things like "how to knit" don't count lol). And ability to use knowledge gained to think outside the box and/or analyze and examine pre-existing ideas effectively. 

These are things I think IQ tests generally don't address. Most questions are multiple choice and I would argue that multiple choice questions, especially ones that are timed are not always the best way of measuring someone, but it is a good way to put a number on something. I think IQ tests place a lot of emphasis in ability to quickly recognize a pattern which definitely factors into reasoning skills but I think its only a few pixels in the picture and you really can't understand how someone thinks based on multiple choice and short answers. 

Anyways I don't think your real intelligence is something that an exact number can be put on but I do believe some people are more intelligent than others. In the end I think if you are a truly intelligent person, you don't need a test to tell you that you are. Thoughts?


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## Niccolo Machiavelli (Aug 7, 2011)

"I don't know what my IQ is. People who boast about their IQ are losers." - Stephen Hawking

IQ Tests are complete bullshit and one of the least intelligent ways to "measure" intelligence. Here are some of my problems with IQ/IQ Tests...

- Before I get into my problems with ACTUAL IQ tests, let me first talk about "internet IQ tests." Most people bragging about their IQ took a test off the internet, and weren't smart enough to realize that they are artificially boosting up your score so you will be more likely to tell your friends to visit their site and/or buy their "scientific" analysis report.

- IQ doesn't measure a whole hell of a lot. What about social intelligence? Musical intelligence? Artistic intelligence? Creativity? Street smarts? Common sense? And the list goes on and on. One of the few things that they measure is "logical" ability, and considering how illogical some people with high IQs are, they can't even measure that right. :laughing:

- Many of the tests that I've seen do NOT measure intelligence in any way, shape, or form. Much of what they "measure" is knowledge. The Rain Man has a better vocabulary than your average adult, guess who is smarter? I would say the average adult. The Rain Main may be able to tell you where every K-Mart in America is, but the average adult can actually get you there. Same with the math/logic problems, anybody that has taken certain math classes or logic classes will have familiarity with many of the problems which would give them a HUGE leg up over somebody that may be smarter than they are, but who isn't familiar with them.

- Multiple choice questions leave room for getting a good score because of luck.

And the list goes on and on. Honestly, I can't think of a single GOOD thing about IQ tests. INTJs like myself apparently score the highest on IQ tests according to what I've read (full disclosure: The statement wasn't backed up by a whole hell of a lot). So if an INTJ is telling you that it is bollocks, then it probably is! :wink::laughing:


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## nreynolds1990 (Jan 8, 2012)

Niccolo Machiavelli said:


> "I don't know what my IQ is. People who boast about their IQ are losers." - Stephen Hawking
> 
> IQ Tests are complete bullshit and one of the least intelligent ways to "measure" intelligence. Here are some of my problems with IQ/IQ Tests...
> 
> ...


Well you just echoed a lot of my issues with it, and you're right about internet tests a lot of them are inaccurate even by IQ test standards. I've been very careful about those xD, but I have always placed high on all tests both online and offline. I don't think they are completely bullcrap however, I think they do measure something but only measure one aspect within a larger skill set and as such is an inadequate measurement. You're correct there is musical intelligence, street smart, etc. But when we refer to just intelligence as one word we are usually referring to intellectual ability, which is the purpose of this thread  Those other intelligences while valid are another discussion. This is coming from someone with a high degree of musical talent and ability. Anyways like I said I don't think that you can fully measure someone's ability in this area of intelligence, multiple choice is not a good test taking medium

In regards to INTJs I read somewhere that J is more likely to have a higher IQ than P. the other letters were also ascribed something I's were supposed to be higher than P. N higher than S, and T higher than F. So under than model INTJ is the super genius which is something I had issue with specifically regarding the J. Completely disregarding IQ saying J will be more likely to have higher intellectual power than P types made no sense to me. This is largely because J's want to have things decided where as P's tend to be more open to possibilities (nothing is black and white either when regarding people's preference to any function I am aware of that, everyone does have a degree of preference to a function so for many people it is not uncommon to display aspects of both functions). When using the MBTI model. However the J trait would be a good test taking trait I believe because they like to have things closed and decided. I'm not harping on INTJs or saying that they are intellectually inferior to INTP. I'm aware that INTJ types tend to be intellectually brilliant all the NT types are actually. But what I am saying is that people asserting that the J type is intellectually superior to P in general makes no sense to me when you understand how both function. 

anyways I am in agreement with you about the test. Like I said it isn't something you can put a number on and when talking about intellectual ability alone there are many facets to it. The other intelligences open up a whole new and much more broad discussion 

In the end its just a number. According to tests I have a high IQ but that fact has never landed me a job or a date its just a number. Like I said it only gives you a smug sense of superiority for a short time xD makes you feel good about yourself thats about it

PS Good quote


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## TheBoss (Oct 27, 2011)

Niccolo Machiavelli said:


> let me first talk about "internet IQ tests." Most people bragging about their IQ took a test off the internet, *and weren't smart enough to realize that they are artificially boosting up your score* so you will be more likely to tell your friends to visit their site and/or buy their "scientific" analysis report.
> 
> - *Many of the tests that I've seen do NOT measure intelligence in any way, shape, or form. Much of what they "measure" is knowledge.* The Rain Man has a better vocabulary than your average adult, guess who is smarter? I would say the average adult.


All your post rocks imho but these parts I wish everybody pays attention to.

Most IQ tests, test TAUGHT knowledge. That, is NOT IQ. Is about whether you were taught and how well you integrated that. Shows you are not stupid medically but not that you are a genious.

And online/book tests? I'll be damned if anyone who tried them got anything under "oh you are a genious, not a top one but surely genious lvl - grats grats"

Tip 1: they all repeat; study one and you score sky high in all subsequent ones. 
Tip 2: and they have a ridiculous repetitive adoration for Fibonacci sequences.
Tip 3: they are dumb...Often offering by accident or mistake, problems with more than one correct solutions.

Serious researchers are aware that we never test profound IQs with multiple choice answers. 



> - IQ doesn't measure a whole hell of a lot. What about social intelligence? Musical intelligence? Artistic intelligence? Creativity? Street smarts? Common sense? And the list goes on and on. One of the few things that they measure is "logical" ability, and considering how illogical some people with high IQs are, they can't even measure that right.


Imho: 
I disagree on this. Streetsmart is being clever; not highly intellectual. Similar can be said about the rest. Common sense has a lot to do with taught/experienced knowledge. Such people are smart but not necessarily of a superb intellect.
Musical intelligence is actually measurable and pretty mathematical on its core so I accept a high level of IQ.
Artistic intelligence is almost always (almost) bullcrap. Nothing objective. I didn't know whether to laugh or cry at the prices some paintings from alleged children prodigies were sold. Scum scheme if I ever saw one.

Actual Intelligence Quotient, should show the accumulation of taught knowledge and its handling but furthermore, the untaught super-potential. The ability to see patterns, solutions, outcomes, and potential, others struggle to see.
Speed is of importance. Both speed of learning and speed of analyzing to reach a conclusion.
Diversity is *very* important.
Real high Intellectual (<-specifically) Quotients are diverse. Top athletes and top scientists and top theologists. Top musician & top mathematicians & top philosophers. Top political analyzers and top painters. Simultaneously. 
*They excel naturally, in several different and often seemingly irrelevant subjects.*


I think the best ever example on a real IQ, was Niels Bohr


> His brother was Harald Bohr, *a mathematician and Olympic footballer* who played on the Danish national team. Niels Bohr was a passionate footballer as well, and the two brothers played a number of matches for the Copenhagen-based Akademisk Boldklub, with Niels in goal.


See? Competent athletes*** AND intellectual geniouses. 

The notorious test (they had him retake it) answer, shows us what a really high IQ is: snopes.com: The Barometer Problem


***This doesn't mean that a physical ailment will make someone stupid or mentally average.


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## Niccolo Machiavelli (Aug 7, 2011)

nreynolds1990 said:


> But when we refer to just intelligence as one word we are usually referring to intellectual ability, which is the purpose of this thread


That's why I pointed out people with high IQs are often completely irrational. :laughing: Often simply knowing your IQ makes you "dumber" because it makes you think that you're above everybody else, thus making you too lazy to analyze certain things that the "peons" below you would be too stupid to figure out.



nreynolds1990 said:


> INTJ vs INTP/J vs P


This reminds me of an old joke, which reminds me of me and my INTP little brother...
An INTJ and an INTP sit down to do a math problem. After 30 seconds the INTJ gets the correct answer of zero. After a few more minutes the INTJ asks the INTP if he is finished yet. The INTP says "still working." 10 minutes later the INTJ asks again, the INTP says "Still working." An hour passes and the INTJ asks again if he is finished, the INTP says, "Got it! The answer is four!" :laughing:

Seriously though, the J and P both have their strengths and their weaknesses, generally speaking. J's can jump to conclusions, P's can over-analyze the fuck out of everything. J's can be quite bossy and tyrannical, P's can be spineless and lazy. And so on and so forth. Personally, I like where I'm at, which is a slight J preference. I've been reading the book Deep Survival: Who Lives, Who Dies, and Why? It discusses all sorts of neuroscience and personality issues that keep people alive or get them killed in survival situations. I'm kinda big on evolution so I was quite happy to read that nearly everything they describe as being likely to survive fits me really well, from the dark sense of humor to the strong determination to do what I want regardless of what others may say. I've been looking at it, when I can, from an MBTI point of view and it is quite clear that being "too P-ish" or "too J-ish" can get you killed. Strong J types don't take situations as seriously, are often too overzealous, can get pissed off easily when things don't go their way, etc. Strong P types are indecisive, lazy, take too long to come to decisions, etc. With me being a slight J, yes I like to be in charge and I can be quite bossy and tyrannical, but I'm also fairly laid back most of the time and I'm always open to new information. I'm sure when it comes to IQ tests, or any other tests, there would be trade-offs and pros and cons when it comes to being a J or a P. 




nreynolds1990 said:


> PS Good quote


Thank you, sir! I thought of it myself! 



TheBoss said:


> All your post rocks imho


I think the same thing! :happy: We have so much in common! :shocked: We should make super xNTJ babies! :laughing: 



TheBoss said:


> And online/book tests? I'll be damned if anyone who tried them got anything under "oh you are a genious, not a top one but surely genious lvl - grats grats"


Once I actually TRIED to get the wrong answers and the lowest score I got was 120. :laughing: I guess even when I'm actively trying to be stupid I'm still smarter than the average person. 



TheBoss said:


> Imho:
> I disagree on this.


We were doing so well! :frustrating: I thought I found my future baby mama! :sad::crying::laughing:



TheBoss said:


> I disagree on this. Streetsmart is being clever; not highly intellectual. Similar can be said about the rest. Common sense has a lot to do with taught/experienced knowledge. Such people are smart but not necessarily of a superb intellect.
> Musical intelligence is actually measurable and pretty mathematical on its core so I accept a high level of IQ.


That depends how you define "intellectual." I would say ivory tower college professor type, which has nothing to do with logic or with IQ. Others might define it as being logical. So it all depends on the definition. 



TheBoss said:


> Artistic intelligence is almost always (almost) bullcrap. Nothing objective. I didn't know whether to laugh or cry at the prices some paintings from alleged children prodigies were sold. Scum scheme if I ever saw one.


Agreed. Don't get me wrong, I like some art, but most of what people like I think is absolute horseshit. :laughing: I used to have a lot of fun art discussions when I took an art history class in college.


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## TheBoss (Oct 27, 2011)

Niccolo Machiavelli said:


> I think the same thing! :happy: We have so much in common! :shocked: We should make super xNTJ babies! :laughing:
> 
> We were doing so well! :frustrating: I thought I found my future baby mama! :sad::crying::laughing:
> 
> ...


Tehehehe Let's!

Hey don't give up that easily! :laughing:

Indeed. That is why I said "imho". Was my personal classification and tried to outline it. :happy:
I am quite certain about the diversity in prowess a real superb IQ has.

I agree. And see it this way, if our kids paint, we will share and give them the same opinion. We are a match :laughing:


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## Niccolo Machiavelli (Aug 7, 2011)

TheBoss said:


> Tehehehe Let's!
> 
> Hey don't give up that easily! :laughing:
> 
> Indeed. That is why I said "imho". Was my personal classification and tried to outline it. :happy:


You ENTJ girls are just too rough for a simple INTJ boy like me! :tongue: I was in a relationship with an ENTJ woman recently before I realized that she had a major self-esteem issue. Namely, she had too much self-esteem to do whatever I told her to do without question! :laughing: She was all like "You want me to do WHAT with the neighbor's dog?! :angry: HOW DARE YOU EVEN ASK ME TO DO SUCH A THING! :angry: I'M A GROWN ASS :angry:, INDEPENDENT ASS :angry:, STRONG ASS WOMAN! :angry:" Then she put on her high heels and jumped around all over my testicles while singing "Miss Independent." You ENTJ girls are SCCUUUUURRRYYYY! :tongue:




TheBoss said:


> I agree. And see it this way, if our kids paint, we will share and give them the same opinion. We are a match :laughing:


If our kids are anything like me, the only thing they'll want to paint is naked women engaged in VERY perverted acts. :laughing::crazy: The kind that even Caligula himself would find to be sickening! :crazy::laughing:


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## nreynolds1990 (Jan 8, 2012)

Niccolo Machiavelli said:


> P's can over-analyze the fuck out of everything... P's can be spineless and lazy. Strong P types are indecisive, lazy, take too long to come to decisions, etc.


Ahahaha I'm a strong P type the lazy part is true. I'm one lazy mother****** xD This needs to be fixed. I wouldn't say I take to long to make a decision, in fact I tease my little cousin who is also an INTP for being indecisive xD. I tell her: "If you're not going to make a decision I'm just going to make it for you." I will take time collecting information and researching about something before I make a definite decision on it. 

I wouldn't say I'm spineless but often I will let people believe what they want. I don't like to get into fights with people a whole lot. Its just not worth it to me. A few years I did and it stressed me out. If you hit a nerve with me I'll say something I'll not back down from my position xD 

I am guilty on over-analyzing though sometimes, I don't usually over-analyze the motives of people, just ideas. Ive been known to start repeating myself talk in the sense that I come back to a theme and just reword it XD


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## Niccolo Machiavelli (Aug 7, 2011)

nreynolds1990 said:


> I tell her: "If you're not going to make a decision I'm just going to make it for you."


That is how it is with my little brother. He has ALWAYS took forever to make ANY kind of decision. And he over-analyzes EVERYTHING! I had him take the MBTI test and it took him nearly an hour (by comparison it took me about 5 minutes). He literally went over every question several times "Well sometimes I'm like this, sometimes I'm like that, I'm like this more in X situation but more in Y situation, so I suppose since I am in X situation more than Y situation then I must be like this!" The whole process went something like this...

Him: I just finished the test. It said that I'm an ENTJ.
Me: You're not a fucking ENTJ, take it again.
Him: I just finished the test. It said that I'm an INTJ.
Me: You're not a fucking INTJ, take it again.
Him: I just finished the test. It said that I'm an ENTP.
Me: You're not a fucking ENTP, take it again.
Him: I just finished the test. It said that I'm an INTP.
Me: BINGO!

I'm not big on MBTI stereotypes, but really, if I didn't know better I'd think that the people who wrote the INTP description wrote it after studying my little brother for all his life. It is EXACTLY like him! :laughing:



nreynolds1990 said:


> I am guilty on over-analyzing though sometimes, I don't usually over-analyze the motives of people, just ideas. Ive been known to start repeating myself talk in the sense that I come back to a theme and just reword it XD


Now you're over-analyzing about whether or not you over-analyze things! :laughing:


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## nreynolds1990 (Jan 8, 2012)

Niccolo Machiavelli said:


> That is how it is with my little brother. He has ALWAYS took forever to make ANY kind of decision. And he over-analyzes EVERYTHING! I had him take the MBTI test and it took him nearly an hour (by comparison it took me about 5 minutes). He literally went over every question several times "Well sometimes I'm like this, sometimes I'm like that, I'm like this more in X situation but more in Y situation, so I suppose since I am in X situation more than Y situation then I must be like this!" The whole process went something like this...
> 
> Him: I just finished the test. It said that I'm an ENTJ.
> Me: You're not a fucking ENTJ, take it again.
> ...


Your brother is a confused individual if he got 4 different results I think he may have multiple personalities disorder and there for cannot be put into a category xD


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## Niccolo Machiavelli (Aug 7, 2011)

nreynolds1990 said:


> Your brother is a confused individual if he got 4 different results I think he may have multiple personalities disorder and there for cannot be put into a category xD


That's a textbook example of how being indecisive can get you killed. The military commander yells "GET DOWN!" and the indecisive soldier says "Well why don't we weigh our options first..." :laughing:


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## nreynolds1990 (Jan 8, 2012)

Niccolo Machiavelli said:


> That's a textbook example of how being indecisive can get you killed. The military commander yells "GET DOWN!" and the indecisive soldier says "Well why don't we weigh our options first..." :laughing:


I think its a text book example of multiple personalities xD how many names dos your brother have to refer to himself hahaha. Does he commonly refer to himself as we instead of I. xD


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## Hapalo (Sep 4, 2011)

IQ tests only measure how good you are at taking IQ tests.


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## Niccolo Machiavelli (Aug 7, 2011)

nreynolds1990 said:


> I think its a text book example of multiple personalities xD how many names dos your brother have to refer to himself hahaha. Does he commonly refer to himself as we instead of I. xD


Nah, he refers to himself as "Your Majesty's Loyal Subject." :laughing::crazy: At least on days where he DOESN'T want a bloody nose! :laughing::crazy:


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## dagnytaggart (Jun 6, 2010)

Niccolo Machiavelli said:


> You ENTJ girls are just too rough for a simple INTJ boy like me! :tongue: I was in a relationship with an ENTJ woman recently before I realized that she had a major self-esteem issue. Namely, she had too much self-esteem to do whatever I told her to do without question! :laughing: She was all like "You want me to do WHAT with the neighbor's dog?! :angry: HOW DARE YOU EVEN ASK ME TO DO SUCH A THING! :angry: I'M A GROWN ASS :angry:, INDEPENDENT ASS :angry:, STRONG ASS WOMAN! :angry:" Then she put on her high heels and jumped around all over my testicles while singing "Miss Independent." You ENTJ girls are SCCUUUUURRRYYYY! :tongue:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You use a horrifying amount of smilies.


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## aef8234 (Feb 18, 2012)

Niccolo Machiavelli said:


> That's a textbook example of how being indecisive can get you killed. The military commander yells "GET DOWN!" and the indecisive soldier says "Well why don't we weigh our options first..." :laughing:


?
Simple choice, live or die. Simple answer. Live.


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## TheBoss (Oct 27, 2011)

Niccolo Machiavelli said:


> I was in a relationship with an ENTJ woman recently before I realized that she had a major self-esteem issue.
> 
> Namely, she had too much self-esteem


Hahahaha yeah that is damn accurate and so funny the way you put it :laughing:


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## Niccolo Machiavelli (Aug 7, 2011)

dagnytaggart said:


> You use a horrifying amount of smilies.


Well that is because INTJs are VERY emotional people. Everybody knows that... :tongue:

Seriously though, they amuse me! :laughing: And it helps my INTJ style of communication. Often people misunderstand us on here because we communicate differently. Just last night I had somebody tell me that they hope I become a burn victim! :laughing: Also the faces have another added bonus, women LOVE them! :laughing::crazy: Throwing faces around is like walking into a club and "making it rain" (ie throwing large amounts of money in the air). :laughing::crazy: The girls are all like "OMG DUDE! :shocked: You use faces a lot! :shocked: THAT IS SOO F'ING HOT!!! :kitteh: Let's make babies! :happy:" 



TheBoss said:


> Hahahaha yeah that is damn accurate and so funny the way you put it :laughing:


Yeah, that is one of the biggest problems I have with women. :sad: Their complaints about me generally include the following...

1) "You're a terrible person! I hate you! :angry:"
2) "I'm not your property! I hate you! :angry:"
3) "Stop trying to seduce my friends/sisters/mother/grandmother! I hate you! :angry:" OR "No we're not having a threesome/foursome/orgy with my friends/sisters/mother/grandmother! I hate you! :angry:"
4) "I'm not doing that, you're a pervert. I hate you! :angry:"
5) "Stop treating me like a blowup doll! I hate you! :angry:"
6) "Why don't you ever talk to me about your feelings! I hate you! :angry:"
7) "I just realized that your mother isn't actually dead, why do you always lie to me? I hate you! :angry:"
8) "The world doesn't revolve around you, this has been proven by science! I hate you! :angry:"
9) "Why do you keep stealing my stuff? I hate you! :angry:"
10) "You always 'forget' to pull out! I hate you! :angry:" 
11) "You were supposed to drive me to the abortion clinic and instead you left me at home while you hook up with another girl! I hate you! :angry:"
12) "We're not doing it in public, in a church, in front of my parents, etc. I hate you! :angry:"
13) "You haven't showered in over a month, you smell bad and I hate you! :angry:"


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## Ember (Feb 11, 2012)

Niccolo Machiavelli said:


> Well that is because INTJs are VERY emotional people. Everybody knows that... :tongue:
> 
> Seriously though, they amuse me! :laughing: And it helps my INTJ style of communication. Often people misunderstand us on here because we communicate differently. Just last night I had somebody tell me that they hope I become a burn victim! :laughing: Also the faces have another added bonus, women LOVE them! :laughing::crazy: Throwing faces around is like walking into a club and "making it rain" (ie throwing large amounts of money in the air). :laughing::crazy: The girls are all like "OMG DUDE! :shocked: You use faces a lot! :shocked: THAT IS SOO F'ING HOT!!! :kitteh: Let's make babies! :happy:"
> 
> ...


Do you do that on purpose? All those emoticons? To invoke a reaction? I am curious.


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## Niccolo Machiavelli (Aug 7, 2011)

Ishan Jalan said:


> Do you do that on purpose? All those emoticons? To invoke a reaction? I am curious.


What is this? The Grand Emoticon Inquisition! :crazy::laughing:

No, seriously though, I use them for one of two reasons. In joking posts I use them for humor/because they amuse me. In more serious posts I use them a lot less, if ever, usually to make a point clear about my intentions.


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