# Humans seem fickle and unreliable. So why bother with relationships/friendships?



## CelineDijon (Jul 5, 2016)

It's certain to end in disappointment. I would like to preface this by saying that, yes, I was recently ditched by somebody but that this has been festering in my mind for quite some time now. I never feel that I can trust anybody. When I think of the idea of two humans being together in a romantic or platonic way it just seems unnatural and fairy tale like to me. Yet I let myself be disappointed over and over. So why try anymore? Can't we just abandon this idea and come up with something else more realistic and less painful? If somebody decides that they don't want to be with the other for ANY reason whatsoever, the dumped person is disappointed. If one person gets bored (like most humans do) and cheats on the other, the other is in pain after. Even if it all goes well and you're happy and you're old together, one of you still dies first in most cases and therefore the other is sad and depressed after. I feel like the idea of relationships and friendships is not realistic. I feel like a relationship only exists in a person's wishful thinking and is almost never a real thing. We know from the start that it will likely end. So it's not as if we can forget. I can't, anyways. The cloud looms over the entire thing for me. Even those happy relationships seem like lies to me. To me, the two people know it's going to end and they are just biding their time. And even if that time is a long time, there's still something unnatural to me about prolonging that disaster. Humans are social animals. And we strive for something that we know will likely hurt us. It's a psychological need. Doesn't this seem stupid? Some twisted design? I understand that it's a need but at the same time it seems like a bit of a fucked up dichotomy.

Thoughts?


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## Marvin the Dendroid (Sep 10, 2015)

That's how you feel when it doesn't work.
When it does, you feel good.

Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
Some people are luckier than others.

The pain and sadness you describe are products of your mind. 
You don't have to identify with them.


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## inmymind (Feb 15, 2016)

I've often felt the same way, but mostly about romantic relationships. Friendships seem much easier to maintain, although, they too end to for various reasons, such as once person moves away. Or, if not end, they are on long pauses if two people live far away.

To me, it seems like people just don't really care enough to maintain a relationship/friendship. I want to believe better, but this is just the way it works out. I put decent effort into reconnecting with old friends I truly care about. In these modern times, we can stay connected easier through social media, so that when we DO come face to face, there is a lot to talk about, but what is good is that you already know some of it so you aren't starting from scratch.

So how would you propose things be different? Pass a rule that says nobody can be friends? To live is to suffer. If you are suffering, you need to remove the suffering, if you can (paraphrasing Vicktor Frankl here). I would say, don't resist the pain felt from lost relationships. Embrace it, sit in it, and it will pass sooner. Resist it, and it will hurt more and possibly last longer. Live to make a difference in other peoples lives, so that when you pass, you will live on in their lives. Live a higher, spiritual life. According to some science I was reading yesterday, matter does not go away. It only changes composition.

If I light a match, the heat goes inside of you and into the air. The smoke slithers up into the air. The ashes drop to the ground and mix with the soil, which grows plants, and so on. So, we too return to the Earth to live another day as something else. The question is, what happens to our consciousness?

We share with each other in feelings, and in the physical. I believe, when you kiss someone, and have sex with them, you exchange DNA with each other, and there is some kind of bond that walks around inside each of you, and you are both changed forever, even if you aren't conscious of the change. I believe in a collective consiousness, and in a physical connection. Sorry if this has gotten too deep, or wandered way off course. It's so late, and my thoughts are a little disorganized, but I hope can find some comfort in my response.


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## Aridela (Mar 14, 2015)

I'd suggest you take people - and yourself - off the pedestal. 

You seem to have an idealised view of what relationships - romantic or otherwise - should be like. Of course you're going to end up disappointed. Life is seldom fair and never perfect. Why not try to start off with no expectations from people and go from there? 

Hope you feel better soon.


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## Up and Away (Mar 5, 2011)

I became spiritual when people didnt value me enough


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## Stachan (Jul 8, 2016)

Why is it so important to be in a relationship anyway? I don´t get it. Force yourself to be with somebody because it is a social norm. It shouldn´t work that way. You shouldn´t think of the bad things that a relationship might bring, but the possitive ones. The problem is in your head. 
I think that you should spend some time alone(maybe a year or two if needed) and get used to loneliness. If it will change your opinion on relationships, then it will be a win. You just need to think things through.
I have been alone for 6 years now and it is... well, it´s different. I smile much less than ordinary people do.


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## VinnieBob (Mar 24, 2014)

unless you want to produce new versions of yourself [mini me's, human childs]
i see no reason in ''dating/mating''
been there done that and was not impressed with end result
keep your needs/expectations low and you will be happy
the only person responsible for your well being/happiness is you and no one else
gods speed and may the schwartz be with you
end transmission


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## Hulie (Jul 31, 2016)

I feel you on that. 
Life isn't perfect. People aren't perfect. As much as we might wish they were.
But the alternative, never connecting with anyone, is just as bad, don't you think? You suffer either way. Suffering is just a part of life.

I think it would help to lower your expectations in regards to relationships. Enjoy the good parts of relationships for what they are and try not to dwell on the bad stuff, or you'll drive yourself crazy! It's like, when you're enjoying something you love (for example, listening to a song, reading a book, eating a favorite food), you know it's going to end. You'll never get back that moment. You're never going to eat _that_ sandwich again. But that doesn't mean there'll never be another moment like that. It's not like it's the last sandwich on earth, and there are never going to be any more. 
And I know it's hard, but try not to take every hurt personally. A lot of the things that people do: cheating, deciding they don't want to be friends anymore, are more about themselves than you.


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## inmymind (Feb 15, 2016)

@Hulie Great post and very true. Still, for me, knowing all this doesn't make the hurt of losing someone I was madly in love with any easier to get over for some reason. I think it should, but it doesn't, for me anyway. I think it is my INFJ idealizing of what the relationship was, and was supposed to be that makes it hard to get over. I know it is a downside of my personality, but it seems as if it is something I cannot change or alter about myself.


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## succubus (Dec 5, 2012)

I tend to enjoy the ride rather than focus on the beginning and the end. Does it matter whether it ends or it's lasting? It doesn't, for me. Focusing on this too much defeats the purpose of making memories or even trying. I also find it quite unhealthy to predetermine the obvious or less obvious for the sake of "what's the point". Just take in what comes your way and make the best of it.


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## Vivid Melody (Apr 25, 2011)

You just feel like this now because you were recently hurt. It's to be expected that you'd feel cynical and maybe even bitter about relationships. I doubt you'll always feel this way unless you completely allow it to consume you and you never forgive. Yes, I understand it's easier said than done and it's a process. A lot of us have been there. I know if I had just given up after the first few people who had disappointed me, I wouldn't be in a wonderful relationship for 10 years now. No relationship is roses and sunshine but when you love the person, you both make an effort and it's more than worth it. The growing pains are beautiful too because you grow into something more beautiful with the other person than you could have ever hoped for or imagined.

Try to look at each experience (even the perceived negative/painful ones) as a learning experience. Life is not ALL positive for a reason. You'd never learn anything inside of a bubble. I believe a big reason why we are here is to learn. Some would say the very fact that we are able to die is part of what makes life so beautiful and precious. It doesn't last for an eternity (at least not here). You can focus on the pain if you wish but then you'd be missing the point. Don't get me wrong, you're entitled to grieve but allowing it to make you hard and closed off in the end probably isn't healthy. 



> I feel like a relationship only exists in a person's wishful thinking and is almost never a real thing. We know from the start that it will likely end.


The key word here being you "feel." Our emotions often cause us to misjudge things - especially when we've been hurt. And no, we don't know that from the start it will likely end. Are you in other people's successful relationships? No. Start challenging your certainty on these matters. I get that you are mostly speaking for yourself here due to your recent heartache but even if say, you have a pattern of these types of things happening in your relationships, doesn't mean the next one will = disaster. I used to think I was meant to be alone myself. I was wrong. In addition, you always play a part in each relationship you are in as well. You made certain choices and you are responsible for them. You attract certain people to you and you are drawn to certain people as well. Maybe do some soul searching and figure out why that is.


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## inmymind (Feb 15, 2016)

@Vivid Melody You are a wise sage.


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## goodthankyou (Mar 25, 2016)

You have two choices : oppression or depression.

I chose oppression. How about you?


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## Headdesk (Jun 13, 2016)

It might not be permanent, but the feelings, experiences, and times you helped each other are real. Life just changes and it's hard for people to stay together and continue understanding each other as they change, too. I don't take it personally so while it's sad, it's not like it's soul-destroying. 

Relationships are experiences, we have to take them as they exist and not try to lock them away where they're ours forever.


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## rainoe (Aug 13, 2016)

@VividMelody , well said. 

Sent from my XT1526 using Tapatalk


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## Elvish Lives (Nov 29, 2013)

Yes, I've felt that same way many times in my life. That's why I go through long periods of withdrawal from social contact with others. This was somewhat hard for me when I was younger, but the older I get, the more I find solace in it rather than angst. Finding fulfillment in another person is perhaps the most impossible dream of this life. I've looked for it and found little more than disappointment. I do believe that as bitter a pill as it is, we can only find fulfillment in ourselves. Others are worthless toward this end. Relationships are mostly a drain on my life, save for the few that bring me some measure of joy. But I take what I can get without trying to expect much in return. The vast majority of people are constitutionally incapable of giving what it is I seek, so it's pointless to ask them for something they do not even have to give.


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## Chronicles (Jun 1, 2014)

I guess because humans=fickle does not mean fickle=no friendships/relationships. Humans are fickle by nature in one way or another. You're right that it's hurtful but if you're going to hurt whether you have friends and an SO or none, you might as well choose relationships and friendships because you'll be happy for at least a little while. You really should try to keep looking. Depression sneaks up very easily on the socially isolated. Don't let it get you.

Mainly I'd say, if you're looking for a solution to the problem, the only one is to keep searching until you find someone who cares. There's always someone. Also, I find that if you hold high expectations of other people or want them to react this way or that way when you didn't even tell them then it might end up becoming a problem. Try communicating what you feel, think, and want with them (unless they're the type that prefer not to). Try to do enjoyable things together and just enjoy the ride. I hope this helped and that you feel better soon.


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## Meter90 (Apr 8, 2016)

I like how you took relationships and friendships to their logical extremes, when the true foundation of these things is anything but logical :laughing:

Look, you're not wrong, really, everything you said is true, but then you're missing the point of relationships in general. Feelings are an extremely dynamic thing, and I doubt they have your best logical intentions in mind. Like you said, perhaps it's a design flaw in humans, but the way I see it, it's a force just as strong as gravity. You don't always notice it, but you know it's always there, keeping you down to earth when your thoughts start to drift away. Just like mine did just now... What was I saying?

Oh yeah! Relationships! Here's the thing, if you look at relationships objectively, you're defeating the purpose. Feelings are the opposite of reason, man, so there's no point in applying hard logic to them. You just have to sort of accept them, or deny them, whatever works, but you can't fully reason with them. In the end, it's all in our heads anyways, thoughts, feelings, whatever, they're subjective, so don't take them too seriously. Remember, you're only one guy in a sea of human experiences, so don't get too bent on it.


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## ai.tran.75 (Feb 26, 2014)

I tend to form good relationship with people - whether it's platonic or romantic . I also believe that just bc a relationship end - it doesn't mean that you have to stop caring or discontinue your friendship with that certain individual. I'm still friends with most of my exes . And I strongly believe in true love bc well my istp husband is not only my soul mate but also my best friend and the one person who I know for certain will always be there for me regardless ( we've been together for 11 years ) . Perhaps I'm lucky - most of the people that I've met I've formed good relationship with whether it's with family /friends /teachers or acquaintances . But I also don't believe in looking for love or friendship but rather letting it happen genuinely 


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## CasualUsage (Aug 24, 2016)

Bring your own happiness into relationships. Make sure the other person brings their own happiness. You shouldn't rely on others for happiness. But, when your matched up with the right one at the right time, the combined good energy is awesome. 

~It eels what it eels.~


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## HGy (Jul 3, 2016)

There is a lot more to life than romantic relationships. 

Look at the rest of the world, you think you're the only person whose ever been hurt in a relationship? That comes with the territory.. Avoiding intimate relationships will be a lot more damaging to your well being than having relationships at the risk of getting hurt.


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## drinkingthesky (Aug 21, 2016)

Why live if you're going to die anyway?



It's the same logic. Dealing with relationships sucks, and if you're an INFP who can't stop idealizing, it can suck even more. I've been let down by countless amounts of people and it has made me a very unhappy person. I feel like this line of thinking, for INFPs especially, can lead to depression, since we're often characterized as the people who always see "good" in everything, and when we stop, there seems to be no hope left. But if you have the choice between being miserable about the fate of all your relationships and actually enjoying the relationships you have, despite how they're going to end, what would you choose? 

Anyway, I think the goal here is to deal with trying not to idealize people. Idealize people less, get hurt less when the ideals aren't real, keep maintaining a sense of hope about the world anyway while still staying realistic and grounded. It's a lot, but it's not impossible.


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## Watchtower (Aug 20, 2015)

It's really not any better without relationships/friendships either. You think you'd be able to trust yourself, that being on your own would feel more natural, you'd never be disappointed in yourself, you'd never cheat yourself. But things happen, or you make some things happen, and it may become evident that you've been lying to yourself as well. You can be your own worst enemy. The only difference I see is that you may be able to change things, yourself, whereas you cannot change other people.

As I see it, there's no good without the bad. Sure, it's really painful sometimes, but other times it just feels perfectly blissful. Those are the moments worth living through the pain for.


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## Xacheri (Sep 10, 2016)

Cuz life is funner with them. You may be broken every now and them but I think it's worth it


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## heroindisguise (May 6, 2014)

I've thought about this many times, in an existential context. Regardless of how many relationships I cultivate, I am, at the end of the day, a single entity walking the face of this earth. I came alone, and I will die alone. 

It is easy to rationalise relationships and bonds as meaningless and false, because they are intangible, especially when you focus too much on the bottom line/ "end" point, it negates the meaning which the process gives in itself. When you apply this line of thought to life itself, then there is no meaning in living because the only thing that awaits us at the other end is death. 

I don't deny that the "end" is painful, but it is only given meaning (pain) because the process itself held meaning to you. 

It also begs the question of what is "realistic" to you? Sometimes people have unrealistic expectations, and conflate it with reality. That is, assuming their expectations are aligned with how relationships play out irl despite it not being the case. Deep bonds do and can exist, but they most likely involve going through a lot of pain and getting over pain. 

Anything that exists in reality is realistic imo, and shouldn't be written off just because they cannot manifest as a physical entity. If you can acknowledge your feelings for someone else, then surely people can hold authentic feelings towards you too, even though not visible with the eye. 

If there are 7 billion minds and hearts on earth, then there are probably more than a billion way of living. Some paths more courage than others. People who believe in principled love can live by their beliefs, people who prefer polyamorous love can live by their beliefs, and people who prefer to live life the painless way can live by their beliefs. There is no right or wrong here, but there is always a caveat, or a drawback to whichever you wish to ascribe to. At the end of the day, you have to "pick your poison". If you hope for no end to come, because all endings are painful, then there must be no start. But if nothing can start, then you have to abandon the intimacy, love, support etc that stems from human bonds


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## nichya (Jul 12, 2014)

Tell me about it.


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## aquasoul (Aug 31, 2015)

As much as I wish I could survive by myself, we can't. Becoming reclusive is painful and I only realise now how much I need friends, despite feeling low.


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## umop 3pisdn (Apr 4, 2014)

If I held that against them I'd be the biggest hypocrite.


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## itsbobo (Sep 28, 2016)

If by relationships you mean non-platonic then I've always followed the ideology of friendship first, relationship after. I suppose many chase the latter thus leading to breakdowns and more so a lack of understanding. Even with the prior it can feel like everything is so secure and easy, but then when love comes into play certain shadowing traits appear and each person gets confused.

I like the idea of balance - you are constantly trying to develop friendships and relationships but you are also acknowledging that they are here and certain.


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