# Another "INFJ or INTJ?" thread.



## N i t s u r e i (Jul 1, 2012)

Told you that you would have to discover my type. *Told you!*
Copypasting from my presentation topic: 

_On reflection, I think I was INFJ since childhood. But things didn't go smoothly. I had a brief spell as a teen INFP (haha, that was cool, I looked like on acid or something), and then when turning 17 I took a few blows on the head which killed my Fe and developed my Te, transforming me in an almost credible INTJ._

Now, I really don't know what to say. I've taken the Keys2cognition test several times, and everytime there are things that repeat themselves:
1) My stronger function is Fi. And I admit it. My Fi goes around at full speed yelling "I'M A SAMURAI!". 
2) The other three most developed functions are, with no precise order (they change place depending on the result), Ni, Ti, and Te. Te is always 4th, or at most 3rd, never 2nd. I'm sure I have a very strong Ni, but I still can't catch the difference between Ti and Te. 

Now. I do not know which questions I could auto-answer, to give you a hand. So, I'm afraid it's your turn, If you're so kind to think about it


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

N i t s u r e i said:


> Told you that you would have to discover my type. *Told you!*
> Copypasting from my presentation topic:
> 
> _On reflection, I think I was INFJ since childhood. But things didn't go smoothly. I had a brief spell as a teen INFP (haha, that was cool, I looked like on acid or something), and then when turning 17 I took a few blows on the head which killed my Fe and developed my Te, transforming me in an almost credible INTJ._
> ...


The way you're talking sounds like Ne 





You say that you use Fi a lot.
But INFJs don't use Fi and INTJs got a weak Fi.




Think you should see these as well...


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## Yomotsu Risouka (May 11, 2012)

...Y'know, even your username is ridiculously Ne + Fi.

Yeah, I'm going INFP.


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## N i t s u r e i (Jul 1, 2012)

@Acerbusvenator Naah, I'm just licking my ENP friends' feet by talking like this, in order to appear less unbearable. But no really, I'll give this idea a try, since my Ne comes just after Te. 
That I'm IN, is almost a sacramental truth. But then yes, those functions are all out of place. And still I don't know if I could identify with something different from INJ. 
Oh noez, I hope that those vids have subtitles. And for the rest, I hope that my only one functioning ear helps me.


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

Fill out a questionnaire please.


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## N i t s u r e i (Jul 1, 2012)

FacelessBeauty said:


> Fill out a questionnaire please.


 Can I pick one randomly by other people's threads?


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

N i t s u r e i said:


> Can I pick one randomly by other people's threads?


Sure. Any questionnaire will suffice.


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

N i t s u r e i said:


> @_Acerbusvenator_ Naah, I'm just licking my ENP friends' feet by talking like this, in order to appear less unbearable. But no really, I'll give this idea a try, since my Ne comes just after Te.
> That I'm IN, is almost a sacramental truth. But then yes, those functions are all out of place. And still I don't know if I could identify with something different from INJ.
> Oh noez, I hope that those vids have subtitles. And for the rest, I hope that my only one functioning ear helps me.


you can't fake a shadow function.
If you use Ni then it would be faked Se that you use.


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## Yomotsu Risouka (May 11, 2012)

N i t s u r e i said:


> But just listen. Futatsurei. Listen to how bad, coarse it sounds ಠ_ಠ. It could be like the name of an Oni ಠ_ಠ


Yup. INFP.


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## N i t s u r e i (Jul 1, 2012)

1) What aspect of your personality made you unsure of your type?
An INTJ ignored me/could't answer me properly, and this ruined my day (semi-serious).
As a INFJ, which I've been through all of my childhood-first adolescence, I now completely lack Fe, ex. I couldn't care less about the majority of people, the fate of the world etc. As a INTJ, which I've maybe never really been, who knows, I'm maybe even too bitter and not enough "let's organize the world" oriented.

2) What do you yearn for in life? Why?
I don't know anymore. Maybe I just don't want to die, cause it's painful and you have no choice to come back, so all in all I'd rather live, hehe. Yes, I suppose it's this. I have no real desires. I just see that, while life is both cruel, wonderful and senseless, death just isn't anything. If I wanted to explore it, I couldn't come back, maybe I could even lack the consciousness to experience it. So I prefer to "travel on this train", now that I can, and live as I want to. In my life I try to enjoy the beauty whereas it doesn't become offensive or frivoulus; to have quality relationships with people (very few) where I can really share something, and respect&being respected; and I'm madly in love with anthropology.

3) Think about a time where you felt like you were at your finest. Tell us what made you feel that way.
I can't recall one, you know. all of my moods have its flaws. But the most recent epic moment I remember, was during a "written fight" (via e-mail). I was beside myself with anger, I admit. I just remember that I was thinking "how can you all be so stupid that you can't even recognize your logical faults? how can you lead a discussion so wildly and claim to be credible? how can you all let just one person speak on your behalf? the brains and the balls, where did you leave them? and if you are so selfish with the people you say you "love", are you so sure you can actually love someone?" etc. All of this rage made me tense, calm, sharp as a blade, and my way of speaking extremely precise. I felt like the ultimate overlord of destruction, muahaha. Afterwards, I felt sick as never before. Rage sticks on me like glue.

4) What makes you feel inferior?
Making mistakes. Loving something and failing to excel. But I rarely feel inferior.

5) What tends to weigh on your decisions? (Do you think about people, pro-cons, how you feel about it, etc.)
It depends on what I have to decide on. If we're talking about managing a group of people, I want to make sure that everyone has the same amount of job, really is motivated, doesn't take the initiative without consulting me. If I have to decide wether to take some exams or not, I evaluate the time I have, plan a schedule and try not to make plans impossible to follow. If I have to decide "can I buy this or not?" I think about how much money I have, if I can afford an unscheduled spending or not, wonder if the next month I can balance the accounts again, etc. But for example, I happily interrupted my study to give a girl reps of Buddhism a few days before the exam. It really depends.

6) When working on a project what is normally your emphasis? Do you like to have control of the outcome?
YES. As I briefly said before. I would relax and do my job without thinking about it, only if directed by someone whom I respect very much.

7) Describe to us a time where you had a lot of fun. How is your memory of it?
Halloween party, two years ago. At the time we were a rather broad and joined group. We were all dressed in theme Kuroshitsuji. Me, my future (now ex)girlfriend and another girl who was flirting with me (lol the same I argued with @ question 3), we were at the center of attention. I liked them both. We all drank, danced in a circle, sang and a made lot of photos. And my future girlfriend licked my face. Sober. I'm quite a flirt, but that was love.

8) When you want to learn something new, what feels more natural for you? (Are you more prone to be hands on, to theorize, to memorize, etc)
In humanistic subjects, I summarize, then talk to myself. A lot. And walk around the table. A lot. *feeling like a domestic Socrates*. But when I come to mnemonic study, I'm a complete duffer. My actual salvation is a program called Anki, a sort of automatic generator of questions.

9) How organized do you to think of yourself as?
I tend to do very precise tables, but often don't respect them because they don't take account of contingencies. Or even because I am often caught by laziness and lack of motivation. Yet without an agenda I wouldn't be able to do anything: I program a lot, but am messy and have little practical memory.

10) How do you judge new ideas? You try to understand the principles behind it to see if they make sense or do you look for information that supports it?
Uhm. If we're talking about a practical manner, at first I think about my experience. I wonder if that idea is really so "new", and if not, what consequences it has had before. Then, (or if this isn't the case), I confront it in my mind with other ideas that antagonize the new one. Clinging to other theories that I trust enough, I try to guess how much the old and new ideas can bear. And of course, if the old ideas have failed, I give a chance to the new one. Without enthusiasm, but I give it.

11) You find harmony by making sure everyone is doing fine and belonging to a given group or by making sure that you follow what you believe and being yourself?
The second one. (Usually if other people are all feely with each other, it casually happens that I don't fit, so...)

12) Are you the kind that thinks before speaking or do you speak before thinking? Do you prefer one-on-one communication or group discussions?
First one, and first one. I prefer a quiet conversation, where participants keep the concentration, don't overreact and don't jump randomly from one topic to another. Obviously, groups tend to be distracting, so I prefer one-on-one conversations.

13) Do you jump into action right away or do you like to know where are you jumping before leaping? Does action speaks more than words?
If I'm in one of my goliardic moments, I can also make rare impromptu with an inimitable aplomb (yay French everywhere). If I fail, I try to dab the situation in words, and usually it works, but inside myself I am ashamed as a dog.
In most things I'm extremely planner. Slow, too.
And no, action can be an enigma, just like words.

14) It's Saturday. You're at home, and your favorite show is about to start. Your friends call you for a night out. What will you do?
If I can, I persuade my friends to come after the show. Or, if it's the right company and I'm in the right mood, I ask if they want to watch it with me. If I have to choose, i'll go with them. Maybe I can download it somewhere. I have a very loose social life, to my choice. When there is it, let's use it at least.

15) How do you act when you're stressed out?
I bite. No really, I become a monster. I isolate myself completely, even by my most trusted friends or relatives. I can become rude or cruel to anyone. I keep thinking about my problem obsessively, usually without being able to get out of it. And sometimes, when I'm exhausted, I immerse myself in activities that prevent me from thinking. Just to begin to think about my problem again.

16) What makes you dislike the personalities of some people?
Unfortunately I hate lots of people. Those who impose themselves on others. The passive-aggressive ones. Superficial or inconsistent people. Hypocrites. People without self-control or composure. Who insults around without valid reasons. Envious ones trying to stoop you to their level. Neurotic puritans. And so on. A lot of people.

17) Is there anything you really like talking about with other people?
Anything concerning my interests (woo-hooo, egocentrism). But they can talk about anything they want, really, except for small talk. I hate it. Hate. It. Talk to your mirror if you want to talk extensively about the absolute void. It will be a better listener than me. I usually prefer to listen a lot. I have to understand all of the "streams" of the conversations, so that I don't fall in annoying situations. I can ask various questions too. But often I care nothing about the topic. It's just to observe people, how they react, what they like, in which subjects they talk shit, etc. So that when a subject of my interest appears and I'm not able to control myself perfectly, I'll have gathered as much informations as I need not to make missteps.

18) What kind of things do pay the least attention to in your life
Practical things. Washing the dishes. Cleaning room. Laundry. This kind of things. Annd the opinion other people have of me. Not because I'm not interested, but because I fail so much at understanding it, that in the end I always give up.

19) How do your friends perceive you? What is wrong about their perception? What would your friends never say about your personality?
Haha, this test heard me answering the previous question. However. I know them enough to think that they see me as a smart, quite charming and witty individual. Some of them rant about my messiness and the verbal troublesomness of my jokes, but in the end they adore me like a rare beast.
To be sincere, this leaves me hurt sometimes. They don't even seem to know I have emotions. I don't show them, and they don't show me theirs, probabily because they think that I'm not the right one for emotional situations. That I'd be bored or annoyed by them. And well it's true that I'd probabily react very clumsily and I'd be of very little help. But I'd not think badly about them, and would treat their show of fragility as a gift.

20) You got a whole day to do whatever you like. What kind of activities do you feel like doing?
Eat & write & read like there's no tomorrow. 

Excuse me for the grammar mistakes.


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## Wakachi (May 24, 2012)

There are not grammar mistakes. They are poetry and so is your INFP.


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

You strike me as an Ne user based on your organization and diction. Most likely auxillary. Te seems to be in your stack somewhere, and I think you're very much an Fi user. INFP is probably the best bet. I could be wrong.


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## Yomotsu Risouka (May 11, 2012)

#2: Ne is the best reason to live, isn't it?

#3: Delicious Fi/Te axis

#4: Weak Si and Te

#10: You could've just said "I use Ne/Si." It would've saved us some trouble.

#11: 'Sup, Fi?

#15: Si/Te, again

#16: Strong Fi

#18: Definite P

#19: So much Fi, I don't even...

Seriously.


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## N i t s u r e i (Jul 1, 2012)

Hahaha guys you're confusing me so much everytime I meet an INFP I just think "owwww cuuute you puppy how can you be still alive in this world" and find them peculiar as hell but you're so convinced!


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

N i t s u r e i said:


> Hahaha guys you're confusing me so much everytime I meet an INFP I just think "owwww cuuute you puppy how can you be still alive in this world" and find them peculiar as hell but you're so convinced!


What has you confused? Enlighten me.


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## Wakachi (May 24, 2012)

N i t s u r e i said:


> Hahaha guys you're confusing me so much everytime I meet an INFP I just think "owwww cuuute you puppy how can you be still alive in this world" and find them peculiar as hell but you're so convinced!


Sue me and the rest of humanity for being lazy


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## N i t s u r e i (Jul 1, 2012)

FacelessBeauty said:


> What has you confused? Enlighten me.


The weirdest types have been applied to me. I remember ENTJ. I even remember ISTJ. But INFP, I had never heard it. Not that I refuse on the spot. It just leaves me like...wtf?

And you @Tenebrae don't send me PM I still can't answer with menacing phrases to XD


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

N i t s u r e i said:


> The weirdest types have been applied to me. I remember ENTJ. I even remember ISTJ. But INFP, I had never heard it. Not that I refuse on the spot. It just leaves me like...wtf?
> 
> And you @_Tenebrae_ don't send me PM I still can't answer with menacing phrases to XD


Difference in perception perhaps? Lack of understanding of cognitive functions? Only the lord knows. 
Maybe you're not very self-aware.


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## N i t s u r e i (Jul 1, 2012)

Oh you're right. I'm self-aware (and universe-aware) like a zucchini.


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

N i t s u r e i said:


> Oh you're right. I'm self-aware (and universe-aware) like a zucchini.


I was thinking spoon rather than zucchini, but whatever floats your boat.


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## Yomotsu Risouka (May 11, 2012)

N i t s u r e i said:


> ...like a zucchini.


Huh? Why would I like a zucchini? You know I'm much more a fan of cucumbers. And pickles. Can't eat those, though. Too salty. Gotta watch my blood pressure!


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## N i t s u r e i (Jul 1, 2012)

You know, zucchini has a dumber look than a fork. Cucombers are dumb enough, too. But pickles aren't. They're too old and experienced.


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## Yomotsu Risouka (May 11, 2012)

N i t s u r e i said:


> You know, zucchini has a dumber look than a fork.


Well, yeah. When you look at a fork, you _know_​ it's going to bring up some good points.


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## N i t s u r e i (Jul 1, 2012)

Totally. 
And to crown this delirium, I think I'll go to bed. (Here it's 4 a.m!)

Thank you all  I'll leave this here, just to know what other people have to say.


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## N i t s u r e i (Jul 1, 2012)

Ok, I've slept over it but I still have one big doubt: I don't feel P at all. Sort of inconclusive due to excessive perfectionsim, yes. Purposely and/or offhandedly random, no.


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

N i t s u r e i said:


> Ok, I've slept over it but I still have one big doubt: I don't feel P at all. Sort of inconclusive due to excessive perfectionsim, yes. Purposely and/or offhandedly random, no.


Just because you're a P type doesn't mean you can't be a perfectionist. Big misconception there.


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## N i t s u r e i (Jul 1, 2012)

FacelessBeauty said:


> Just because you're a P type doesn't mean you can't be a perfectionist. Big misconception there.


Then I suppose I'm not grasping the difference between P and J (or it's possible that approximative descriptions of both have just confused me).


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

N i t s u r e i said:


> Then I suppose I'm not grasping the difference between P and J (or it's possible that approximative descriptions of both have just confused me).


You're not looking at the functions my friend. Look at them. That's where what inspired the types we pegged you as.


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## N i t s u r e i (Jul 1, 2012)

So I guess I have to acculturate about the functions . So far, the correspondence between functions and P / J is the most difficult thing I have left.


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

N i t s u r e i said:


> So I guess I have to acculturate about the functions . So far, the correspondence between functions and P / J is the most difficult thing I have left.


Yes bro. After you wise up and become more self-aware, feel free to come back for a second opinion.


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## Yomotsu Risouka (May 11, 2012)

By the way, your awkward use of language rules out Ti pretty soundly.


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## N i t s u r e i (Jul 1, 2012)

(Could be, but also but keep in mind the lack of fluency / distance created by the use of a foreign language that I rarely use ^ ^)


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

I also got a strong Fi/Ne/Te impression from your questionnaire answers, and the Si/Ne perceptual axis was apparent - in fact, the order you suggested was Si --> Ne, which was interesting.

I would suggest you stop considering P/J as being so indicative. The P/J variable in MBTI holds more solidly for extraverts, less so for introverts where it is trying to define behaviors according to the first extraverted function, which may or may not even be correct to do. MBTI INFP is Fi > Ne > Si > Te. Fi is a function of internal-mental organization, while Ne is a predominant manner of perceiving the world - so an INFP is primarily a Judger, secondarily a Perceiver. There is no reason this couldn't translate to a quest for perfection, or an orderly lifestyle, just like there's no reason an INxJ couldn't be messy, especially if underdeveloped in Judgement.


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## N i t s u r e i (Jul 1, 2012)

All this as a whole, makes much sense.
Thank you all for giving me a hand.
Obviously this thread is just a starting point. I'll learn more about the functions, and then in the end I will assess myself which ones suit me, and how much. For now, I can say that in these last days I was considering the INFP option, but the fact that I use Te a lot in my relationship with others probabily confused me. You've been very helpful.


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## N i t s u r e i (Jul 1, 2012)

(if you've found my ravings entertaining enough, follow my existential questions here too )


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## Vermillion (Jan 22, 2012)

N i t s u r e i said:


> Told you that you would have to discover my type. *Told you!*
> Copypasting from my presentation topic:
> 
> _On reflection, I think I was INFJ since childhood. But things didn't go smoothly. I had a brief spell as a teen INFP (haha, that was cool, I looked like on acid or something), and then when turning 17 I took a few blows on the head which killed my Fe and developed my Te, transforming me in an almost credible INTJ._
> ...


Are you just describing me, or... :O
No, you're me. You are just like me. People are telling me I'm INFP too. (I can't believe that even if I tried)


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

I don't think you would shift types that easily. Even when most people mistype, there's some form of consistency among certain functions. For example, I used to type as INFJ. After doing some more exploring I learned that I was an INTJ stuck in the Ni-Fi loop. My perceiving functions were the same regardless. Shifting from INFJ to INFP to INTJ doesn't show any sort of consistency there. Ni doesn't shift to Ne, and Te doesn't shift to Fe and vice versa. Sure you might have some decently developed functions out of the MBTI stack assigned to your specific type, but regardless, there seems to be a certain baseline for functional preferences. Functions don't just morph into other ones. That's purely nonsensical.


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## Vermillion (Jan 22, 2012)

FacelessBeauty said:


> I don't think you would shift types that easily. Even when most people mistype, there's some form of consistency among certain functions. For example, I used to type as INFJ. After doing some more exploring I learned that I was an INTJ stuck in the Ni-Fi loop. My perceiving functions were the same regardless. Shifting from INFJ to INFP to INTJ doesn't show any sort of consistency there. Ni doesn't shift to Ne, and Te doesn't shift to Fe and vice versa. Sure you might have some decently developed functions out of the MBTI stack assigned to your specific type, but regardless, there seems to be a certain baseline for functional preferences. Functions don't just morph into other ones. That's purely nonsensical.


Why not? Major emotional changes, or changes in circumstances can force a change in thinking style. 
I think there is a lot of difference between a Ni-Fi loop and being an INFJ.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

N i t s u r e i said:


> All this as a whole, makes much sense.
> Thank you all for giving me a hand.
> Obviously this thread is just a starting point. I'll learn more about the functions, and then in the end I will assess myself which ones suit me, and how much. For now, I can say that in these last days I was considering the INFP option, but the fact that I use Te a lot in my relationship with others probabily confused me. You've been very helpful.


All one need is your avater picture to see the Fi you emit.
Then when you go about your "ravings" in Ne land,
function theory demands a follow up of Si and Te

So we have Fi, Ne, Si, Te compressing into INFP.


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

Amaterasu said:


> Why not? Major emotional changes, or changes in circumstances can force a change in thinking style.
> I think there is a lot of difference between a Ni-Fi loop and being an INFJ.


I don't think major emotional shifts can alter your thought process that drastically. When certain functions work in tandem, it's fairly easy to mistake them for something else. Especially when the person exhibits an unhealthy reliance of certain loops. I used to associate any empathy I had for others with Fe. I think this was the main feature the Ni-Fi loop mainly because I could pick up on other people's feelings because I could relate them to my own but at the same time I realized that they were not my own. At the same time I had a mean cynical streak and I was very withdrawn. I was never really an Fe user, because I've never truly connected with most people or adjusted my own beliefs to fit a situation. I never sought any sort of external validation for my beliefs and feelings, I don't try to persuade people to share them, and I never believed them to be universally applicable. Because I won't change my beliefs regardless, and I have nothing to prove to anyone. "To each his own" I always say.


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## Vermillion (Jan 22, 2012)

FacelessBeauty said:


> I don't think major emotional shifts can alter your thought process that drastically. When certain functions work in tandem, it's fairly easy to mistake them for something else. Especially when the person exhibits an unhealthy reliance of certain loops. I used to associate any empathy I had for others with Fe. I think this was the main feature the Ni-Fi loop mainly because I could pick up on other people's feelings because I could relate them to my own but at the same time I realized that they were not my own. At the same time I had a mean cynical streak and I was very withdrawn. I was never really an Fe user, because I've never truly connected with most people or adjusted my own beliefs to fit a situation. I never sought any sort of external validation for my beliefs and feelings, I don't try to persuade people to share them, and I never believed them to be universally applicable. Because I won't change my beliefs regardless, and I have nothing to prove to anyone. "To each his own" I always say.


Why do think you need to be in a Ni-Fi loop to be able to understand other people's feelings?
Emotional changes can change the way you think. This is merely typology, after all, and everyone uses all functions even if their type says some are underdeveloped. It's not just the top four which are used under normal circumstances. I think, in a day, I can use at least 7, but mostly all functions.


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

Amaterasu said:


> Why do think you need to be in a Ni-Fi loop to be able to understand other people's feelings?
> Emotional changes can change the way you think. This is merely typology, after all, and everyone uses all functions even if their type says some are underdeveloped. It's not just the top four which are used under normal circumstances. I think, in a day, I can use at least 7, but mostly all functions.


I'm just giving you my perspective. It's not the same for other people, empathy can be attributed to either function, the reasoning for it is just different. Yes, I am quite aware of that. I don't believe you are limited to 4 functions, but as far as type goes, 2 or 3 of them should at least be in your top four somewhere. I think that your MBTI type correlates to how frequently you rely on them rather than how developed they are, if you understand what I mean. But functions don't just morph into other functions, especially when they aren't used in the same realm to begin with.


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## Yomotsu Risouka (May 11, 2012)

@Amaterasu: There's no evidence that "everyone uses all functions". In fact, the idea is patently absurd.

Realistically, it is most likely that the human brain has two judging centers and two perceiving centers. It assigns one judging center to emotional issues and one to logical issues. It assigns one one perceiving center to the environment and one to memory. As a result, you have four functions.

If, for example, a Se user were to try to use Ne, they'd have to completely rewire their brain first. It's absurd.


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## Vermillion (Jan 22, 2012)

Yomotsu Risouka said:


> @_Amaterasu_: There's no evidence that "everyone uses all functions". In fact, the idea is patently absurd.
> 
> Realistically, it is most likely that the human brain has two judging centers and two perceiving centers. It assigns one judging center to emotional issues and one to logical issues. It assigns one one perceiving center to the environment and one to memory. As a result, you have four functions.
> 
> If, for example, a Se user were to try to use Ne, they'd have to completely rewire their brain first. It's absurd.


The idea is absurd? I find that funny. What happened to your shadow functions, which emerge under stress?


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## Vermillion (Jan 22, 2012)

FacelessBeauty said:


> I'm just giving you my perspective. It's not the same for other people, empathy can be attributed to either function, the reasoning for it is just different. Yes, I am quite aware of that. I don't believe you are limited to 4 functions, but as far as type goes, 2 or 3 of them should at least be in your top four somewhere. I think that your MBTI type correlates to how frequently you rely on them rather than how developed they are, if you understand what I mean. But functions don't just morph into other functions, especially when they aren't used in the same realm to begin with.


I'm not talking about functions morphing into others. It can be a gradual process, and obviously requires a major trigger. Both Fe and Te require external validation, for example. They only differ in what they want the external validation for. For theories, or for emotions?
You're 17, aren't you? You too must have gone through all the messed up emotions that come with being a hormonal teenager, and must have surpassed those. It is very likely for many young teenagers to behave like INFPs and ISFPs. Thus the brief INFP phase in her teens that she mentioned.


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

Amaterasu said:


> I'm not talking about functions morphing into others. It can be a gradual process, and obviously requires a major trigger. Both Fe and Te require external validation, for example. They only differ in what they want the external validation for. For theories, or for emotions?
> You're 17, aren't you? You too must have gone through all the messed up emotions that come with being a hormonal teenager, and must have surpassed those. It is very likely for many young teenagers to behave like INFPs and ISFPs. Thus the brief INFP phase in her teens that she mentioned.


Most of my emotional struggle can be traced back to the years just before adolescence, but emotions aside I'm still largely the same. I think major emotional triggers can elicit a minor shift (a loop rather than shift in MBTI type), but they don't last if people grow out of them. Although people's personalities and thought process can evolve over time, there are still many constants that don't change. The INFJ versus INTJ makes much more sense than INFP because they have the same dominant and inferior functions. INFP has 0 functions in common with INFJ, and even though they have Te and Fi in common with INTJ, I don't think that dominant judging types would become dominant perceiving types due to an emotional trigger. I think MBTI has more to do with thought process than overall behavior, since there are other factors contributing to behavior and personality.


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## Vermillion (Jan 22, 2012)

FacelessBeauty said:


> Most of my emotional struggle can be traced back to the years just before adolescence, but emotions aside I'm still largely the same. I think major emotional triggers can elicit a minor shift (a loop rather than shift in MBTI type), but they don't last if people grow out of them. Although people's personalities and thought process can evolve over time, there are still many constants that don't change. The INFJ versus INTJ makes much more sense than INFP because they have the same dominant and inferior functions. INFP has 0 functions in common with INFJ, and even though they have Te and Fi in common with INTJ, I don't think that dominant judging types would become dominant perceiving types due to an emotional trigger. I think MBTI has more to do with thought process than overall behavior, since there are other factors contributing to behavior and personality.


You cannot cast your "emotions aside" and believe that emotion does not affect your thought process at all. A teenager usually finds it harder to separate emotion from thought process.

Yes, some constants don't change. Those can be Te and Fi, can't they?

Who said I was bringing overall personality into this? MBTI is limited to thought process, but thought process also affects behavior - it is your thoughts that make your actions.

The only thing is that the dominant attitude remains the same. You must understand the unnecessary emotions that a teenager drags around. Not being able to let go of those may lead to being mistyped as a Fi dom.


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## Yomotsu Risouka (May 11, 2012)

Amaterasu said:


> You cannot cast your "emotions aside" and believe that emotion does not affect your thought process at all.


Spoken like a true Fi dom!

Not everyone is the same as you, though. Many people legitimately can make decisions without factoring in their emotions. It's true that they can't maintain this mindset indefinitely, though.


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

Yomotsu Risouka said:


> Spoken like a true Fi dom!
> 
> Not everyone is the same as you, though. Many people legitimately can make decisions without factoring in their emotions. It's true that they can't maintain this mindset indefinitely, though.


I take it you are not a proponent of Beebe's theory.


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

Amaterasu said:


> You cannot cast your "emotions aside" and believe that emotion does not affect your thought process at all. A teenager usually finds it harder to separate emotion from thought process.
> 
> Yes, some constants don't change. Those can be Te and Fi, can't they?
> 
> ...


What makes you say that I can't? I know that emotions are a part of thought process. It's not that I don't consider them, I'm just much more concerned with the general patterns in my thought process that goes beyond them, which have generally remained the same.

Sure they could. 

What about those that act on impulse? Those that act before consciously thinking about it?

Fi is more than emotions, it's an assessment of values and beliefs. Some Fi dominants are actually much colder and detached than they're made out to be. I know. Just because you carry around such emotions doesn't mean you're an Fi-dom.


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## Yomotsu Risouka (May 11, 2012)

Flatlander said:


> I take it you are not a proponent of Beebe's theory.


I'm not, but that's not really the question. There are quite a few known mental disorders which involve permanent or temporary loss of emotion.


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

Yomotsu Risouka said:


> I'm not, but that's not really the question. There are quite a few known mental disorders which involve permanent or temporary loss of emotion.


Hah. Does this mean I have a mental disorder? I lot of times I don't seem to have any sort of emotion.


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## Yomotsu Risouka (May 11, 2012)

FacelessBeauty said:


> Hah. Does this mean I have a mental disorder? I lot of times I don't seem to have any sort of emotion.


Haha, no. I'm just proving it's been widely observed and documented; therefore, it must be possible.


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## Vermillion (Jan 22, 2012)

Yomotsu Risouka said:


> Spoken like a true Fi dom!
> 
> Not everyone is the same as you, though. Many people legitimately can make decisions without factoring in their emotions. *It's true that they can't maintain this mindset indefinitely, though.*


You are tireless, aren't you? :laughing:

Bolded was my underlying meaning.


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

Yomotsu Risouka said:


> I'm not, but that's not really the question. There are quite a few known mental disorders which involve permanent or temporary loss of emotion.


I was talking about the basic idea that we continue using certain functions because they promote positive feeling - a very basis in emotional reliance, if not necessarily in the way that was intended.

Disorders like these: I thought it was basic policy not to type people who have them.


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## Vermillion (Jan 22, 2012)

FacelessBeauty said:


> What makes you say that I can't? I know that emotions are a part of thought process. It's not that I don't consider them, I'm just much more concerned with the general patterns in my thought process that goes beyond them, which have generally remained the same.
> 
> Sure they could.
> 
> ...


Jeez, I'm not talking just about _you_. It's about people in general. 
Why do people have so much pride in saying they lack emotion? That isn't possible. Emotion is what makes us human, along with the ability to reason.
Whether you are an INTJ or not, emotion plays a role in your thinking. Whether or not your judgment involves is different.

I knew you would ask this question. Are you saying that people who react impulsively have better reflexes than those who don't? As far as I know (and that might be limited, for I am still learning), reacting without thinking is a reflex action.
All people think before they act. The only thing is how they think and what they think about.
Obviously, a Se-Ti thought process results in more impulsive behavior than a Ni-Te one!

Yes, some of them are. I know too. 
I'm talking about mistyping and type transitions here. Obviously they don't mean anything. INFP could have been a transition phase.

Isn't most of this from your own experience with being an INFJ and then confirming that you are an INTJ? Are you sure this is not Si?


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## Yomotsu Risouka (May 11, 2012)

Flatlander said:


> I was talking about the basic idea that we continue using certain functions because they promote positive feeling - a very basis in emotional reliance, if not necessarily in the way that was intended.


Ah. That's a good point, and it makes the issue a bit more complex. It now becomes a question of whether instinctual preferences and their reinforcement truly qualify as emotions. Basic feelings of discontentment are known even to born psychopaths, so I'd actually argue they're essentially different. This would also explain why such a motivator for cognitive function choice still applies even to people who believe themselves to be nearly emotionless.


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

Amaterasu said:


> Jeez, I'm not talking just about _you_. It's about people in general.
> Why do people have so much pride in saying they lack emotion? That isn't possible. Emotion is what makes us human, along with the ability to reason.
> Whether you are an INTJ or not, emotion plays a role in your thinking. Whether or not your judgment involves is different.
> 
> ...


*facepalm*
I'm not saying that what I have gone through is applicable to everyone because it isn't. I was trying to give you something to better understand what I'm talking about. 

Well you seem to believe that everyone can't disregard emotion when it comes to anything. It's not really something to be proud of or something to resent, in my opinion. It's just a part of some people's personalities. 

Haha I'm pretty sure that I'm not an Si user. :tongue:

It's just usually harder for other people to understand my reasoning and ideas if I don't give them an example to relate it to, whether it be a current event or past experience. Whatever gets my point across.


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## Vermillion (Jan 22, 2012)

FacelessBeauty said:


> *facepalm*
> I'm not saying that what I have gone through is applicable to everyone because it isn't. I was trying to give you something to better understand what I'm talking about.
> 
> Well you seem to believe that everyone can't disregard emotion when it comes to anything. It's not really something to be proud of or something to resent, in my opinion. It's just a part of some people's personalities.
> ...


Changing a pronoun doesn't make any difference to my level of understanding, thank you very much.

The word "believe" has a very strong connotation on PerC. People on PerC seem to think that the word believe is used by people who do not have any logic behind their theory, and that reflects in how they use the word "believe". Whatever.



> I think MBTI has more to do with thought process than overall behavior, since there are other factors contributing to behavior and personality.


Be cautious with your words. Emotion is a part of everyone's personalities. MBTI types which "don't use emotion" don't extend to the level of personality, though, as you yourself had mentioned.

I know you're not a Si user. I was just testing, because the last time _I_ thought about being a little descriptive with my words I got labeled a Si user, so yeah :dry:


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

Amaterasu said:


> Changing a pronoun doesn't make any difference to my level of understanding, thank you very much.
> 
> The word "believe" has a very strong connotation on PerC. People on PerC seem to think that the word believe is used by people who do not have any logic behind their theory, and that reflects in how they use the word "believe". Whatever.
> 
> ...


Well someone's a little testy today. I just wanted to get my point across. That is all. I don't think being descriptive is necessarily an Si quality. In regard to your possible type, I think it's better to do more introspection rather than being heavily reliant on our own perceptions and judgements. Try that. :tongue:


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