# Is it possible to think yourself to death?



## suicidal_orange

It's well recognised that when old people have had enough of living they die surprisingly quickly (usually following the death of their lifelong partner) and there's nothing doctors can do about it. 

This got me thinking - would this method of suicide work for a young person? Assuming it would, what would the inevitable post mortem conclude was the cause of death?


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## Inguz

asmit127 said:


> This got me thinking - would this method of suicide work for a young person? Assuming it would, what would the inevitable post mortem conclude was the cause of death?


 Don't think so, before you get to the point where you willingly can walk in front of a train and not be afraid, then chances are that you probably have killed yourself already, one way or the other.


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## suicidal_orange

Inguz said:


> Don't think so, before you get to the point where you willingly can walk in front of a train and not be afraid, then chances are that you probably have killed yourself already, one way or the other.


 You've added a step XD

Old people literally go from healthy (or at least stably medicated) to dead (not instantly, but they decline quickly for no apparent reason) even in the confines of a hospital bed simply by deciding (not sure if consciously or not) that they don't want to live any more. That's why this "suicide" method is attractive - you don't have to traumatise the train driver or even your family, you just die quietly...


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## Inguz

asmit127 said:


> You've added a step XD
> 
> Old people literally go from healthy (or at least stably medicated) to dead (not instantly, but they decline quickly for no apparent reason) even in the confines of a hospital bed simply by deciding (not sure if consciously or not) that they don't want to live any more. That's why this "suicide" method is attractive - you don't have to traumatise the train driver or even your family, you just die quietly...


 No, it was to show the state of mind that is required. The elderly that dies that way probably feel like they have lived their life and can be content with the time they had. An angsty teenager however barley even can feel that, and more so not stay in that state of mind long enough for the body to shut down.

Instead of wishing for death, wish for the opposite. If it works one way it works the other too, and for an angsty teenager it's much easier to feel that the life ahead will be an adventure filled with joy and happiness.


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## suicidal_orange

Inguz said:


> No, it was to show the state of mind that is required. The elderly that dies that way probably feel like they have lived their life and can be content with the time they had. An angsty teenager however barley even can feel that, and more so not stay in that state of mind long enough for the body to shut down.
> 
> Instead of wishing for death, wish for the opposite. If it works one way it works the other too, and for an angsty teenager it's much easier to feel that the life ahead will be an adventure filled with joy and happiness.


Haha! I've not been an angsty teenager for many years but thanks for echoing the opinion of those who sell age restricted products. I guess your advice is good for the many angry teenagers who do frequent these fora though, and your opinion that sustaining this state of mind is hard until you've lived lots has been noted :happy:


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## Dark Romantic

If you spent all your time thinking, and none of it eating or drinking, then yes. Otherwise... I don't think it's possible.


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## Roland Khan

If you were so deep in thought that you walked yourself off a cliff....

To think you can beat the red light...

To think the gun isnt loaded...

To think the acid gave you powers to fly...


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## Adrift

I've read that voodoo curses work because the recipient of the curse believes they work.


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## Dark Romantic

Adrift said:


> I've read that voodoo curses work because the recipient of the curse believes they work.


Ladies and gentlemen, the origin of religion!


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## jeffbobs

it is true, you can think yourself to death, Stephen hawkings was really close to almost dying, but he got lucky and stopped thinking before too much permanent damage was done


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## U-80

asmit127 said:


> It's well recognised that when old people have had enough of living they die surprisingly quickly (usually following the death of their lifelong partner) and there's nothing doctors can do about it.
> 
> This got me thinking - would this method of suicide work for a young person?


I don't think so. You'd have to erase literally all traces of hope from your mind, and that's hard to do when you still have youth and health on your side. 

You're not thinking of suicide, are you?


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## Roland Khan

Era said:


> I don't think so. You'd have to erase literally all traces of hope from your mind, and that's hard to do when you still have youth and health on your side.


Isnt that what all 'news' shows do anyway? They do everything they can to make you question your own health, and they reject most anything done by the youth, taking both youth and health away from you. From this, I believe that we can conclude that news organizations are trying to 'think us to death'.


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## CataclysmSolace

asmit127 said:


> It's well recognised that when old people have had enough of living they die surprisingly quickly (usually following the death of their lifelong partner) and there's nothing doctors can do about it.
> 
> This got me thinking - would this method of suicide work for a young person? Assuming it would, what would the inevitable post mortem conclude was the cause of death?


It would be interesting if that works 0.0


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## suicidal_orange

Era said:


> You're not thinking of suicide, are you?


 Were it not on my mind I could 't have written about it! I've experienced the effects so the aforementioned concerns will prevent it going any further than that though, there's nothing to worry about.


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## Jennywocky

asmit127 said:


> Is it possible to think yourself to death?


Yes, if you are sitting around thinking on a train track.
(advice: Don't be doin' that.)

EDIT: 
@_Inguz_ : ha, great minds think alike.


I don't think you can directly "think yourself to death," or at least it's extremely rare for that to be the case. The thing with the elderly is that their bodies are already wearing out / shutting down. This is why the very young and very old often die of pneumonia compared to those of average health not in those age ranges; the body resources to stave off harm are running low. So when someone feels they have a mission/purpose, that can be enough to drive them forward; but once they don't (as like when they retire from all work or when the loved spouse dies and they're alone), then the rest of the body can falter because the mind has faltered. 

Also, faltered minds = a person who no longer takes care of themselves, hence the body can become more weakened as well.


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## Inguz

jeffbobs said:


> it is true, you can think yourself to death, Stephen hawkings was really close to almost dying, but he got lucky and stopped thinking before too much permanent damage was done


 That's nonsensical though. Hawking views his condition (ALS) as a blessing in disguise, so that he can commit all his waking time to his work (using his brain). ALS is a scary disease, and he's the exception to the rule, that after being paralyzed it's time to take good bye to the person. He lives because he wants to, and no, he didn't think himself in to that position, it's a disease called ALS.



Jennywocky said:


> Yes, if you are sitting around thinking on a train track.
> (advice: Don't be doin' that.)
> 
> EDIT:
> @_Inguz_ : ha, great minds think alike.


 But my opinion is that you can do it, though the mental state that would be required is practically impossible unless you can feel content with life, or at least sustain a non-fear of death. But a suicidal person without fear of death probably have killed herself already at that point - which isn't necessarily true for elderly that die that way. They don't want to bring any shame to their dead partner or their remaining family, they just want to stop living and rejoin their partner in afterlife. That's why it works for an elderly who lost his soulmate and is as good as practically impossible for an angsty teenager.

Think placebo/nocebo here, for it to work, you have to subconsciously believe in it. Freud was right about one thing though, the Ego is afraid of dying, and will go to great lengths to prevent it's own non-existence, even if you are suicidal.


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## Jennywocky

Inguz said:


> But my opinion is that you can do it, though the mental state that would be required is practically impossible unless you can feel content with life, or at least sustain a non-fear of death.


Well, okay, but you're just speculating at this point. How many billions of people in the world, yet we don't have any quantifiable evidence of this, do we? I mean, really, run some tests by having people in a room trying to kill themselves by thinking... it just doesn't happen. 

And typically, as you say, someone who wants to die will actually just do it, not sit around trying to command themselves to die.

And older people have a host of other possible factors that could contribute to their demise, so there is no firm basis for you to state that this is true.



> Think placebo/nocebo here, for it to work, you have to subconsciously believe in it. Freud was right about one thing though, the Ego is afraid of dying, and will go to great lengths to prevent it's own non-existence, even if you are suicidal.


Yes. Toss anyone in the ocean and/or drag them down, and literally almost everyone will suddenly fight to live, even if a moment before they were miserable and wanted to die. Seeing death approaching makes almost everyone a wannabe survivor; it's an inborn instinct, to fight for that last breath.


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## jeffbobs

Inguz said:


> That's nonsensical though. Hawking views his condition (ALS) as a blessing in disguise, so that he can commit all his waking time to his work (using his brain). ALS is a scary disease, and he's the exception to the rule, that after being paralyzed it's time to take good bye to the person. He lives because he wants to, and no, he didn't think himself in to that position, it's a disease called ALS.


If you took that last statement seriously then i'm sorry


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## Inguz

Jennywocky said:


> Well, okay, but you're just speculating at this point. How many billions of people in the world, yet we don't have any quantifiable evidence of this, do we? I mean, really, run some tests by having people in a room trying to kill themselves by thinking... it just doesn't happen.
> 
> And typically, as you say, someone who wants to die will actually just do it, not sit around trying to command themselves to die.


There are possible ways to achieve that, but it's not research that will get funded. It's unethical and may encounter problems with the justice once someone dies from it.



Jennywocky said:


> And older people have a host of other possible factors that could contribute to their demise, so there is no firm basis for you to state that this is true.


 There is, actually. It's what started this thread, that older people die shortly after their life long partner passes away. They can go from healthy to death very rapidly, and as said, doctors can't do anything about it. And no doctor in their right mind denies how powerful for example placebo/nocebo can be.



Jennywocky said:


> Yes. Toss anyone in the ocean and/or drag them down, and literally almost everyone will suddenly fight to live, even if a moment before they were miserable and wanted to die. Seeing death approaching makes almost everyone a wannabe survivor; it's an inborn instinct, to fight for that last breath.


Most of the time I think it's about 'fear of life', ie the enneagram fears. Like we as a 5 could feel like life isn't worth living if we feel that we're useless, helpless, or incapable, which then can be amplified the other types in the tri-type. It can lead anyone to depression and being suicidal, but such a state of mind is so different compared to the person who lost her life long partner.



jeffbobs said:


> If you took that last statement seriously then i'm sorry


 I don't have patience for sarcasm in the midst of a serious discussion.


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## Jennywocky

Inguz said:


> There are possible ways to achieve that, but it's not research that will get funded. It's unethical and may encounter problems with the justice once someone dies from it.


It's also convenient.



> There is, actually. It's what started this thread, that older people die shortly after their life long partner passes away. They can go from healthy to death very rapidly, and as said, doctors can't do anything about it. And no doctor in their right mind denies how powerful for example placebo/nocebo can be.


Placebos are powerful, and I've already referred to this example in my case... it's just that older people still have reduced resources, body cell regeneration has slowed, etc. it's not a good test on whether the healthy young/middle-aged adult can do this.



> Most of the time I think it's about 'fear of life', ie the enneagram fears. Like we as a 5 could feel like life isn't worth living if we feel that we're useless, helpless, or incapable, which then can be amplified the other types in the tri-type. It can lead anyone to depression and being suicidal, but such a state of mind is so different compared to the person who lost her life long partner.


There are many many people who go through equitable experiences (I went through years of depression where I wanted to die, literally, and would pray that God would kill me on a daily basis, yet I just wouldn't die except through long term abuse of my body) and do not die. The fact it happens in retirees and old people who have lost a lifelong partner, as I've said a few times now, always has the "age" factor involved where the body is no longer as healthy and durable as it has been, and so you can't simply discount that or claim it's all a "mental" thing. As soon as you find a way to exclude that as a contribution to current statistics, you can have more weight for the theory you're holding to.


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