# Which types are prone to high/low self esteem?



## Roshan (May 17, 2013)

Vive said:


> @_Swordsman of Mana_
> Interesting, if we're talking in general here I would have to agree with the first post. But if we add in subtypes and wings things could change around quite a bit. I would think that type 9w8 would naturally have more confidence than a 9w1 especially if this 9w8 is of the SX subtype.
> 
> As for type 6 I think their confidence is not naturally low or high, I think it's constantly varying. I don't see the (generally) Cp ones being more confident as the more phobic ones, they're both 'running' away from their fear (if average/unhealthy) in the end. The six is a questioner after all and to me it wouldn't be strange if they would at a point question their own amount of confidence or doubt. I think what the six truly struggles with is keeping their self-esteem at the same level.


You can always play around with tritype, wings and stackings, of course, but generalizing loosely, I feel that most Sixes believe they're fundamentally okay, competent people in a fundamentally hostile universe where "things just won't work out", whereas most 9s believe they're in a fundamentally benevolent universe where things will always somehow work out, but not for them, not _really,_ because they're empty, therefore flawed. So, expect less, ask for less, and things_ will_ work out because the universe is, after all, secure. In other words, "don't make waves with the universe" and it will let you float.

6: I'm basically ok, but the universe isn't.
9: I'm basically not ok, but the universe is.

(And 4--I'm not ok because this isn't _really_ my universe. I'm _better _than this...if only I could go home...)

People have said that Sixes fear success, not failure, but I dunno. I think it's 9s who fear success (because it requires imposing on the benevolent universe by taking up too much space--physical, psychic, energetic, or otherwise), and 6s really do fear failure (because the universe won't support them.) Whatever the case may be, there have been many 9/6 couples--lovers, friends, business partners--who wound up doing a lot of chronic underachieving thanks to complementary esteem issues.


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## haephestia (May 13, 2013)

For another 2c to add to my other, I just asked my husband (ESFP 9w8 sp/so) a few questions about this and his response was:

"Fate is a stupid word, things just are the way that they are in the universe an the only thing that changes that is you." 

When I asked him about his self-esteem he said "eh, I'm okay I guess? you keep me in check when I need to be" (he can think he is immune to the consequences of his inaction which can look a bit egotistical in a weird way. He can get pretty cheeky when he integrates too). 

When I asked how he thought of the world he reiterated it just "is what it is". When I asked why, if he knows he can change things, that he doesn't just change them (his inaction is a thorn in my side ^_^') he said "mostly I just don't think I know how... and I don't know if what I'll do will make it better or worse. Usually things are just okay as they are."

... so type 9 it huuuuurts, he is. I know he does flounder magnificently with low self-esteem at times but it always stems from that 'I don't know what to do/I don't know how to make it better' feeling. I'm not sure if it makes him feel helpless but usually he is afraid that he'll lose me or something else he loves because of his ineptitude/inability to move forward.


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## Lord Bullingdon (Aug 9, 2014)

Roshan said:


> People have said that Sixes fear success, not failure, but I dunno. I think it's 9s who fear success (because it requires imposing on the benevolent universe by taking up too much space--physical, psychic, energetic, or otherwise), and 6s really do fear failure (because the universe won't support them.)


Oh, I know a 6 who is afraid of success. But it's because he ultimately fears that he will be isolated "at the top"--and hence unsupported and prone to failure. Interesting dynamic...success leads to failure.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

azurechimes said:


> I definitely think this list has a lot of concrete reasoning behind it.


Concrete reasoning where?

I want to add that I don't think any type is more or less prone to poor self-esteem. As @Roshan pointed out, the type structure in itself is actually a defense _against_ poor esteem so the real question is how likely a person is to _exhibit_ or _openly admit_ that they have poor self-esteem. Take a true narcissist who is diagnosed as such for example. Do you think these people are going to admit that they fundamentally suffers from abysmally poor self-esteem? No, of course not, because their very personality disorder is what is helping them cope with they fact that they *do*.


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## charlie.elliot (Jan 22, 2014)

Roshan said:


> @_MelanieM_,
> 
> Unless healthy, most 9s have an acutely painful sense of lack of self-worth beneath the narcotizing defense mechanisms they use to divert their attention from it. Self-effacing mirroring and over-accommodation doesn't come without a price.
> 
> ...


In my experience, bad self-esteem is one emotion that no amount of narcotization can fix...


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

charlie.elliot said:


> In my experience, bad self-esteem is one emotion that no amount of narcotization can fix...


You sure? See my point about NPD which it to say, I don't think 9s suffer from NPD but the idea of being unlovable is definitely a major part of the 9 structure.


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## Dalton (Jun 10, 2013)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> from what I've seen (and *read*), I would infer


Maybe I'm speaking from an Ni/Se point of view, but reading only is a road to better observation. Observation is what truly brings out the knowledge and understanding. I.e. _book smarts < street smarts.
_


> *naturally struggle with self esteem:* 4, 6, 9


Agreed.


> *in between:* 1, 3, 5


Social 1 might be on the higher end, TBH.
SP 1 might be more shameful.


> *naturally high self esteem:* 2, 7, 8


TBH, I've seen a good share of 7s who have poor self-esteem.



> Sexual 1 is a much more egocentric, slightly entitled personality who projects much of the need to "perfect" things outward onto others "they are the ones with the problem, not me"


Too often, I will put others in higher priority than myself. Although I vehemently disagree with it on an intellectual level, I grew up believing that self-sacrifice is a virtue, and this unconscious belief continues to ruin my happiness.



Vive said:


> *naturally high opinion of self:* 8, 1, 7 (Inner belief that they are adequate)


AHAHAHA you made me literally LOL.


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## charlie.elliot (Jan 22, 2014)

Entropic said:


> You sure? See my point about NPD which it to say, I don't think 9s suffer from NPD but the idea of being unlovable is definitely a major part of the 9 structure.


I didn't mean to imply that it wasn't! I quite agree that is. What I meant was, narcotization doesn't help in not feeling it. For me anyway. It always really stings and theres no way to not feel it.

Now that I think about it, bad self esteem was always my catalyst for self growth, because it was the biggest source of pain in my life, the one I was consistently aware of and couldn't hide from.


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## cir (Oct 4, 2013)

charlie.elliot said:


> I didn't mean to imply that it wasn't! I quite agree that is. What I meant was, narcotization doesn't help in not feeling it. For me anyway. It always really stings and theres no way to not feel it.
> 
> Now that I think about it, bad self esteem was always my catalyst for self growth, because it was the biggest source of pain in my life, the one I was consistently aware of and couldn't hide from.


 To me, it literally feels like a shadow of a doubt. Like the chill in my neck, maybe even imaging a shadow in the corner of my eye, that someone's watching me, even if I don't know it.

Although that's probably my conscious, so I think I'm supposed to feel it more often. <<;

Yep, there's no running from it. It'll come back sooner or later. Narcotization, sobriety, heh.


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## charlie.elliot (Jan 22, 2014)

cir said:


> To me, it literally feels like a shadow of a doubt. Like the chill in my neck, maybe even imaging a shadow in the corner of my eye, that someone's watching me, even if I don't know it.
> 
> Although that's probably my conscious, so I think I'm supposed to feel it more often. <<;
> 
> Yep, there's no running from it. It'll come back sooner or later. Narcotization, sobriety, heh.


Haha nice I love the way you write! You bring everything to life


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## Golden Rose (Jun 5, 2014)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> from what I've seen (and read), I would infer
> *naturally struggle with self esteem:* 4, 6, 9
> *in between:* 1, 3, 5
> *naturally high self esteem:* 2, 7, 8


I can agree with this although a 2's self esteem often fluctuates according to the current image/vibe they're projecting or want to project and how well their "targets" (let's say lovers, shall we? ;D) react to it. Sometimes it goes off on its own, we can feel awesome and think we look stunning even at our absolute worst while still wishing we looked different or we could change parts of ourselves even at our best. And we do, through smoke and mirrors we really do! Honestly, eating disorders are quite popular with young 2s and 3s for this reason, although 3s tend to need to reach some kind of objective while we 2s would probably feel sexy even in rags (especially sx 2s)... we have the attitude but not always the means or the right state of mind. It can be also a matter of not being at our best yet, as in "yeah I'm pretty but if I fixed my health/hair/weight/style/whatever, I could be a bombshell" though we reach that state of mind regardless (as our actual health sometimes flies out of the window if we're sp last). But do we feel confident, sexy, smart, amazing and need other people to tell us about it? Heck yeah!  



> Sexual 1 is a much more egocentric, slightly entitled personality who projects much of the need to "perfect" things outward onto others "they are the ones with the problem, not me"


Egocentric? Not quite! Self focused? Sure! Often believing that their method is the right one, no matter what? That too. But Sexual Ones struggle a lot between their own strong impulses and desires and their natural need for self control and doing the most morally correct thing, they hate restraint but they _need_ it. The main reason behind their push for perfectionism and fixing others doesn't come from contempt towards others (unless they clash with their morals) but inner struggles to perfect themselves through perfecting others and being actually a lot more outwardly focused than people might think! They care about their loved ones and want to be the driving force in their life, they demand perfection because they demand it first and foremost from themselves and this is mostly some kind of defensive reaction as sexual 1s in love or deep, intimate bonds can be Two-ish in nature, regardless of their wings (albeit in that controlled, principled, straightforward 1-way... no seducing in order to get anything there).


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## Arya (Oct 17, 2012)

Please refer back to my profile picture. That pretty much explains type six. And I don't see why you have them at the bottom @_Swordsman of Mana_ Sixes are ambivalent towards themselves, and it's mostly about whether we're strong enough. That is the biggest key issue to type six self esteem. When we feel strong we're generally ok.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Arya said:


> Please refer back to my profile picture. That pretty much explains type six. And I don't see why you have them at the bottom @_Swordsman of Mana_ Sixes are ambivalent towards themselves, and it's mostly about whether we're strong enough. That is the biggest key issue to type six self esteem. When we feel strong we're generally ok.


in this instance, I am going mostly off of my experience with 6s, and most of the 6s I know have fairly low opinions of themselves


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## Arya (Oct 17, 2012)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> in this instance, I am going mostly off of my experience with 6s, and most of the 6s I know have fairly low opinions of themselves


Most of the sixes from my experience have been a bit on the arrogant side, although a lot of the ones I know are younger guys which I'm sure makes a difference


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Arya said:


> Most of the sixes from my experience have been a bit on the arrogant side.


on the outside: yes
on the inside: no


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## Arya (Oct 17, 2012)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> on the outside: yes
> on the inside: no


That's not true at all. You're discounting how well I know these people.On the inside they're uncertain. It's not low self esteem vs high self esteem. It's uncertainty about themselves. They feel divided. One second they have high self esteem. the next they don't.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Arya said:


> That's not true at all. You're discounting how well I know these people.On the inside they're uncertain. It's not low self esteem vs high self esteem. It's uncertainty about themselves. They feel divided. One second they have high self esteem. the next they don't.


if it swings from high to low from one day to the next, that's not high self esteem.


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## Arya (Oct 17, 2012)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> if it swings from high to low from one day to the next, that's not high self esteem.


But that's not low self esteem either. It's based upon the amount of anxiety that builds up. Which is why I would put type six in the middle, not on the low end.


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## TheProphetLaLa (Aug 18, 2014)

Arya said:


> That's not true at all. You're discounting how well I know these people.On the inside they're uncertain. It's not low self esteem vs high self esteem. It's uncertainty about themselves. They feel divided. One second they have high self esteem. the next they don't.


I think 6's are capable of seeing the relativities of life more clearly. What is "faith" but an ultimate truth? I don't think 6's believe in an ultimate truth and so they are capable of seeing themselves as both everything and nothing, depending on the circumstances.


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## Arya (Oct 17, 2012)

TheProphetLaLa said:


> I think 6's are capable of seeing the relativities of life more clearly. What is "faith" but an ultimate truth? I don't think 6's believe in an ultimate truth and so they are capable of seeing themselves as both everything and nothing, depending on the circumstances.


yes, definitely. I mean some sixes do cling to 'ultimate' truths but they generally still feel uncertainty over them.


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