# Fi Ti differences



## Helios (May 30, 2012)

Acerbusvenator said:


> It's not misinformation. It's rather very simplified.
> But it's a free world, you are free to be wrong if you want.


Please don't use the moral relativism argument on me, that's not the point.
Oversimplification often times leads to misinformation, or a distorted portrayal of the truth. You can't just make a claim as if it's true and make an excuse for it's fallacy by saying it's "very simple."


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## bearotter (Aug 10, 2012)

OK, simple. Ji'scheck for truth is an introverted check. Ti's check involves the introverted determination of symmetry/harmony of the logic used to describe the data. Fi's involves a determination of how one may evaluate the data against abstract introverted feelings. Both of these checks for truth are introverted, and the nature of this introversion actually is what makes it confusing to tell which was at work.


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

FacelessBeauty said:


> Please don't use the moral relativism argument on me, that's not the point.
> Oversimplification often times leads to misinformation, or a distorted portrayal of the truth. You can't just make a claim as if it's true and make an excuse for it's fallacy by saying it's "very simple."


I said I made it very simplified, not oversimplified.
Ofc. I could expand on my thoughts in the subject if I wanted to because there's a lot behind my words, but I don't feel like sharing. :wink:


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## unsure (Jan 5, 2013)

Umm, what I meant when I said simple was "easy to understand", I have read so many that are so abstract that it was impossible to understand. I want accurate answers, but written in a way that is easy to understand. 

Anyways, super answers! roud:


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## surgery (Apr 16, 2010)

unsure said:


> I want accurate answers, but written in a way that is easy to understand.


Haha, don't we all? But, unfortunately there's not much consensus as to what the functions actually are, thus all the bickering 
Some of Lenore Thomson's descriptions: 



*Introverted Thinking:*

“Although Introverted Thinking and Introverted Feeling both prompt us to *reason* perceptually, as a situation is happening, the preside over different areas of Judgment. *Introverted thinking is dispassionate and impersonal, prompting an interest in systemic logic: the probably consequences of immediate choice. For example, if we drill new holes into our shelf groove, we will have to compensate at other points in the process?*” (366).

“*ITPs*, for whom Introverted Thinking is primary, are usually creative technicians of one sort or another who *reason literally in terms of patterns and emerging variables*. Paul Simon, for example, talks about the constant evolution of a song has he exploits its structural potential, incorporating a snatch of Bach here, a gospel chord change there, each decision affecting the whole, creating new consequences and possibilities” (366).
_______

*Introverted Feeling:*

“*Introverted Feeling* focuses our attention differently. It *encourages a personal relationship with an evolving pattern, a will to gauge the situation by an experiential ideal*. For example, if we use Introverted Feeling to make a good spaghetti sauce, we won’t follow recipes or measure ingredients. We’ll sample the sauce as we’re making it, gauging its taste, smell, and texture by their ideal outcome and adjusting for circumstantial variables so the emerging patterns stays on track” (367).

“*Although this process might be called aesthetic judgment, it doesn’t operate on the basis of artistic principles. Its basis is living, breathing, firsthand experience. If we’ve never encountered a decent spaghetti sauce, we wouldn’t use Introverted Feeling.* We’d turn to objective Judgment: acquire a recipe (Extraverted Thinking) or ask a friend for advice (Extraverted Feeling). We might even use Introverted Thinking and experiment. *To invoke Introverted Feeling, however, we have to know the difference between a good outcome and a bad one—know with our senses, in our bones*” (367).
_______

* Both Ti and Fi are forms of reasoning
* They are both situational (which is why, according to this theorist, Ji expresses itself as Perceiving in MBTI--because Ji doesn't create criteria that can be applied to any situation to make it predictable). 
* They aren't consciously thought out, all though, their decisions can be accessed by reflecting/asking the self why or how they suddenly came to that conclusion.

* Like @_JungyesMBTIno_ said, Fi operates on ideals. It holds an expectation of how should affect people for the better/in a positive way; it should make you feel good. The ideal however is subjective--rooted in personal experience. Ti differs because it's not focused on how the situation is affecting, but rather it notices the logical relation between "facts" (could be people, but it would still hold an impersonal attitude). However, I'm not sure how Ti, from this perspective, remains consistent with Jung's idea about the Introverted processes being "subjective", ie related to the Self/Ego.
_______

*Examples*: 

*Assembling a bookcase.*

* *Introverted Thinking would prompt us to reason with situational logic: to deal with immediate variables as they happen*. Perhaps the holes in the second shelf don’t line up with the holes in the groove it’s supposed to occupy. Our step-by-step instructions don’t cover this possibility, so we have to consider our options and their probable effects on the whole project” (366).

* *Introverted Feeling would prompt us to make the bookcase our own—that is, to give it a place among the things that matter to us.* Maybe we’ll use it for the books we love best. Maybe we’ll put our collection of miniatures on the top shelf. We’ll try something, change it, try something else, until the elements come into harmony for us and we’re and we’re happy with the arrangement” (366).

---> I think it's important to notice that her Ti and Fi examples don't actually apply to the same situation exactly. Since Ti is impersonal (Thinking) it focuses on "facts" (what is as it is) and the impersonal relationship between these "facts." Thus, it's useful when assembling a bookcase. Introverted Feeling on the other hand, notices the way humans (and by extension animals and sometimes objects that get human feelings projected onto them) are affected. Using Fi to assemble a bookcase is probably impossible, although we can decorate it based on our personal values. 

*The Vorta in *_*Star Trek: Deep Space Nine.*
_
“For one thing, they can’t *appreciate military strategy, which requires Introverted Thinking.* They understand battle plans only it terms of the limited goals they’re meant to achieve and the time it ‘should’ take to reach them (369).

* Illustrates Ti versus Te

“Indeed, the Vorta are perfectly capable of demonstrating social affinity with others. They smile when required, say the right things—but no one _ever_ believes them. One might consider a recent cartoon character who describes social correctness as the ability to smile and lie, as in ‘Nice to see ya! Have you lost weight? How’s the family?’ *Without some capacity for Introverted Feeling, our relational behaviors are purely strategic; they have no subjective content*” (370).

* Illustrates Fi versus Fe

*MY PERSONAL EXAMPLE: I used Ti to type this post (organize/arrange all the impersonal information logically and aesthetically without reference to general standards about how a post should look ) but was motivated to do so by Fi (because I want people to learn, understand themselves and others better so that we all can treat each other better (more kindly). I also wanted it to look as beautiful as possible because I want people to experience something that's both insightful, but beautiful so they fully appreciate it).*


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Acerbusvenator said:


> F - value
> T - reasoning
> 
> Fi - internal/subjective values
> Ti - internal/subjective reasoning





unsure said:


> Umm, what I meant when I said simple was "easy to understand", I have read so many that are so abstract that it was impossible to understand. I want accurate answers, but written in a way that is easy to understand.
> 
> Anyways, super answers! roud:


With more thought on this, it wasn't really even simplified, just put in macro perspective.
S - Observation
N - Connection
F - Values
T - Reasoning
Tho I'm still unsure what the best words to summarize N and S is.


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