# Judging vs. Perceiving



## o0india0o (Mar 17, 2015)

So, I am new to MBTI theory (like, _*crazy*_ new); I usually hang out on the Enneagram forums.

My MBTI type can best be described as xNFx. I score super high on NF traits, but I/E and J/P tend to be an even split. I have been trying to learn more about these traits, so I can better decide for myself what I might be, but I am finding it confusing. & need a little help.

As far as Judging vs. Perceiving goes, most people (irl) recognize me as a highly organized, research-driven, planning type. I didn't always use to be this way. As a child, I was much more go-with-the-flow and such (much more ENFP-ish). I had an Enneagram Type 1 father (so I never really had to do any of the planning, or organizing - it was always done for me), but once I became an adult, I realize I missed that structure in my life. I enjoy when my life is organized, planned out, and everything has a place. I *highly* resent having to create that structure for myself, and prefer to be more playful, and silly, chasing my tail while someone else does the work (I bring the fun and "sparkle"). But, if no one is there to do the "work", I have found that I have stepped up in that absence.

I make grocery lists, to-do lists, and meal plans for the week (otherwise, how would you know what to buy at the grocery store*?*). I research purchases before I make them. I like to have plans made well in advance (I don't like when things are up-in-the-air), so that I can pencil it in to my planner & forget about it. I have a planner, and a large wall calendar (so everyone can be on the same page in our household). I like vacations to be planned out (you can deviate from the plan once on vacation, but I like all the options researched, otherwise, how will you know you're maximizing your fun and your time*?*). I get things done on-time (I'm not a procrastinator).

But, if given the option, I would gladly fall back into the position of much more of a Perceiver role. I like to be spontaneous. I am very open-minded. I like to approach work as play (heck, I don't like working much anyways). I stay open to new information. I am not very opinionated, and I am tolerate of others views. I am curious. I'm creative, like personal freedom. On the surface, I very much come across as a Perceiving personality (I have a lot of the vibes I guess). But underneath, I do all the work of a Judger (especially if that role is not being filled in my life). I resent planning, and organizing (I do not enjoy it), but I find I am happier when that structure is there.

What do you call this*?* A self-loathing Judger*?* An ambidextrous Judger/Perceiver*?* I don't know MBTI theory well, so maybe there is an explanation for my dilemma*?*

Thank you in advance*!* :smile-new:


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## reckful (Jun 19, 2012)

You sound more like a J to me.

If you're interested — and _only_ if you're interested — in quite a lot of input from me on J/P, see the spoiler in this post.

And if anybody tries to tell you that ENFJs and ENFPs are waaay different (_because functions_!) or that you can't possibly be an ENFx (_because functions_!), you may want to look at this post.


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## Librarian (Jun 14, 2016)

@o0india0o
A few maybe helpful questions:
1) Did you have siblings; younger children are often "forced" or adapt to going with the flow?
2) Given the choice, are you happier to organize/ plan or let others do it while you keep things relaxed.

My first thought is ENFJ. ENFP is another strong possibility. Open mindedness to new or different ideas don't always have to be about perception; it could just be your iNtuition. Do you hate planning or do you more so hate _strict_ planning? Of course, perceivers also enjoy structure; no one wants to be 100% random.

At least, I haven't met that person yet.


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## o0india0o (Mar 17, 2015)

@Librarian 

Thanks for responding*!* I appreciate it. :smile-new:
*
1.)* I have one younger sibling (2 years younger than me). I am the oldest. When my parents would try to put responsibility on me (hand me money for the two of us to go eat, etc...), I would hand that money/responsibility right to my sister. She was a duty-bound Type 6, and didn't seem to mind (though, I've never asked her, so maybe she did*?*). She would remind me of family birthdays, etc... I guess I just had a lot of "responsibility-driven" Enneagram types in my family (Type 1 father, Type 6 sister), that I never really had to step up to the plate (because they were always there, organizing things).

*2.)* Given the choice, I would be *much* happier handing the organizing and planning responsibilities over to someone else. I don't like doing it. I feel like it ruins the fun (for me);; though, long-term, I know it makes things more fun (I just don't want to be the one who has to do it). I don't know if anyone enjoys it really (maybe they do*?*). What I do enjoy (& _crave_ on some level), is having a Judging type in my life. I have noticed that I feel uneasy and anxious without someone moving us in a meaningful direction, when a bag with sunscreen and band-aids is not packed, when there is no structure or organization in our family environment (I married a Type 9, not realizing how much this kind of stuff meant to me). When I try to fill this role, I do it well, but I become a stressed-out, anxious, overwhelmed version of myself. I get things done on time, but I become someone I don't recognize (it's hard to make jokes and chase your tail when you're worried about everyone getting out the door on time). If my husband took over this role, I'd drop it in a heart-beat.

So, I don't know what you call that (probably, mostly, due to my lack of understanding of MBTI theory, maybe...). I prefer (& enjoy) the role of Perceiver, but only if there is a Judging influence in my life. If no one steps up to the organizing plate, I fulfill this role with the same vigor as my Type 1 father (planners, and calendars, and grocery lists, and to-do lists, and appointment reminders, etc...). It makes me stressed out, but also, nothing would get done if no one assumed this role. I have Judging capabilities, but I resent having to assume the role, and it stresses my personality out (stretches it thin). Is this just how all Judging types feel*?*

I will say, I have *never* preferred working at the last minute (that sh*t is stressful*!*). :laughing:
(the Perceiving descriptions make it sound like Perceivers like the last-minute frantic dash)


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## o0india0o (Mar 17, 2015)

@reckful

Thanks*!* :smile-new:

I will check out those posts you linked*!* As, I would definitely be interested.


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## o0india0o (Mar 17, 2015)

I guess a lot of my confusion is arising from the "personas" surrounding Judging vs. Perceiving types.

*Judging types* seem like the archetypal Enneagram Type 1: uptight, no-fun, serious, judgemental, organized, adult, responsible, deadlines, planning, on-time, Type A, perfectionist, [...]

*Perceiving types* seem like the archetypal Enneagram Type 7 (or Type 9): laid-back, fun, spontaneous, child-like, silly, open-minded, irresponsible, lazy, late, [...]

Of the two, I see myself as a Perceiving personality, with Judging capabilities (maybe this is a misuse of MBTI and its applications*?*).

I also always assumed a Judger would like doing Judging things, and vice versa with Perceivers. The fact that I don't enjoy doing the organizing and planning is tripping me up (even though I can be great at it). Maybe that doesn't matter with MBTI*?*

Basically, I move around the world desiring to have fun and be playful, with the supervision of an "adult" (hopefully & preferably a Judging "adult"). If no "adult" is present, I'll fulfill that role, but it's not pleasant (I'd rather be slacking-off and having fun with all the other "kids"). :tongue:

So, I *do* prefer things to be handled in a Judging manner;; I just don't prefer to be the one doing it. :laughing:
Does that not matter*?*
Is it simply how you prefer your life run, whether you're the one running it or not*?*

Can Judgers be fun, spontaneous, free-spirited, etc...*?*

I think it's the personality traits associated with each function (J/P) that is giving me pause.


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## Syvelocin (Apr 4, 2014)

o0india0o said:


> I guess a lot of my confusion is arising from the "personas" surrounding Judging vs. Perceiving types.
> 
> *Judging types* seem like the archetypal Enneagram Type 1: uptight, no-fun, serious, judgemental, organized, adult, responsible, deadlines, planning, on-time, Type A, perfectionist, [...]
> 
> ...


My experience is the stereotypes for the preferences are really just stereotypes. Sure people often follow the stereotypes, but specific Js tend to come off differently than others to me. Judgers come in all enneagrams. ISTJs are often 1s, but 2, 3, 4, 5, 8 cover the most common enneagrams for other judging types. It depends on the type, what their judging function is and what's supporting it.

That's about how I feel about all that judging stuff as an ENFP, I see the value in it, I can easily step up and take on that role in a group of people with weaker extraverted judging than me, but it isn't my preference. That's cause I have tertiary Te, like for an INFP with inferior Te they might have a lot more trouble playing that role in a group.


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## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

@o0india0o

I think you are an ENFJ


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## Stevester (Feb 28, 2016)

1) Judging and perceiving has nothing to do with organized vs. being lax. Perceiving means you ride out the information you absorb and adapt to it in your own way, judging means you want to do something concrete with the information you absorb, actively impacting your outer world. 

2) The J and P letters completely changes the functions you use. INFP for instance is not a more ''chill'' version of INFJ and vice-versa. These two types actually have NO functions in common. So you might wanna take a look into functions in this case as it might clear up stuff way better. 

3) Extrovert and Introvert, now that one's indeed a bitch. Contrary to popular conception it's not outgoing vs reserved. IxFJ have auxiliary Fe so they'll probably like to engage with people despite being introverts ENxP have dominant Ne which means they might be just fine being alone with their thoughts for extended periods of time despite being extroverts. The reason I say I vs E is hard to tell apart is when trying to differentiate between the same I/E type (i.e. is he ESFP or ISFP?) 90% of the way you type a person is by identifying their dominant and auxiliary functions. But E/I of the same type merely have these two functions swapped around so it can be a pain to tell which one comes first most of the time. I still have very close people in my life that I can't put my finger on whether they are introverted or extroverted.


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## UnicornRainbowLove (May 8, 2014)

When splitting hairs about a dimension I like to refer to mbti-step-iil. Judging-Perceiving can be split up into 5 different facets. You seem to be planful and don't like the stress of finishing a task late (which some P-types are actually excited about although certainly not all of them). From what I can tell you seem to correspond to being a Perceiver who just happens to be out-of-preference in regards to being planful and early-starting. If you primary mode is to just have fun and only act to organize when everything is out of control, along with the fact that you are playful at work and like to be spontaneous, I would interpret it as you being a P-type. However, you're probably an ambivert on this point, so choose what you relate to the most.


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## UnicornRainbowLove (May 8, 2014)

Stevester said:


> The J and P letters completely changes the functions you use. INFP for instance is not a more ''chill'' version of INFJ and vice-versa. These two types actually have NO functions in common. So you might wanna take a look into functions in this case as it might clear up stuff way better.


Just to avoid confusion for the OP who says she's new to this. Realize that there are two completely different systems of typing that both use the same names for the types. There is the cognitive function approach and the dimensional approach (E vs I, N vs S, etc) and in general they have nothing to do with each other. Some users of this site think an INFP is defined by Fi and Ne, and others that they're introverted, creative, value-oriented and casual. Just be mindful of which one is being talked about.

*Edit: Sorry, I didn't even realize this is on the cognitive functions forum. The thread title mislead me.


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## Notanidealist (Jan 16, 2017)

I'm not an expert on this either, but I can think of some pretty strong Judgers in my own family who really need to have a structure or schedule in place but are quite content to have it created for them by someone else. For example, every time we go on a vacation my husband (ISTJ) feels uncomfortable, as the OP does, without a detailed plan because he doesn't want to miss out on anything worthwhile and wants to maximize the time. He's very happy to have someone else create the plan though.

I, on the other hand, find it annoying/depressing to see a detailed schedule for my vacation time made by someone else. We've actually gone on vacation with in the past with another couple (both accountants) and the wife did this in for the entire trip _in _20-minute intervals _and_ with our approximate share of each taxi ride calculated in advance. I vowed never again to repeat that experience. I also hate going on organized tours, partly for this reason. 

I am therefore the one who makes detailed plans and schedules for all our vacation time. I treat it as a hypothetical scenario, not a fixed-in-stone plan. I also tend to "plan" by creating plenty of alternatives and down-time in the schedule and avoiding commitments (e.g. booking the activity or hotel that can be cancelled up until the last minute). That way, both of us are happy.


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## Ksara (Feb 13, 2014)

UnicornRainbowLove said:


> When splitting hairs about a dimension I like to refer to mbti-step-iil. Judging-Perceiving can be split up into 5 different facets. You seem to be planful and don't like the stress of finishing a task late (which some P-types are actually excited about although certainly not all of them). From what I can tell you seem to correspond to being a Perceiver who just happens to be out-of-preference in regards to being planful and early-starting. If you primary mode is to just have fun and only act to organize when everything is out of control, along with the fact that you are playful at work and like to be spontaneous, I would interpret it as you being a P-type. However, you're probably an ambivert on this point, so choose what you relate to the most.


I second this ^^


You may be a judger but have some perceiver qualities among the facets, or the other way around.

Also I have yet to see a person who is completely J or P.
The dichotomies aren't binary, they are a scale, and yes this allows the possibility of being in the middle and displaying both traits. Or for a strong judger to demonstrate P qualities from time to time.

Its about what overall best fits you. As each type description is a generality it is likely not to capture every aspect about you.

Also yes there are different typing systems (as mentioned). I recommend not mixing them together and assuming the same meaning for the same names used. Whilst there are similarities, it's not necessarily consistent, and not exactly the same.


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## Notanidealist (Jan 16, 2017)

UnicornRainbowLove said:


> When splitting hairs about a dimension I like to refer to mbti-step-iil. Judging-Perceiving can be split up into 5 different facets. You seem to be planful and don't like the stress of finishing a task late (which some P-types are actually excited about although certainly not all of them). From what I can tell you seem to correspond to being a Perceiver who just happens to be out-of-preference in regards to being planful and early-starting. If you primary mode is to just have fun and only act to organize when everything is out of control, along with the fact that you are playful at work and like to be spontaneous, I would interpret it as you being a P-type. However, you're probably an ambivert on this point, so choose what you relate to the most.


Just wanted to mention that I found the link to the Step ii facets really interesting. I have a few questions about them:
1) Some of the facets were described as "core facets". Does that mean that these should be weighed more in determining type?
2) Is it possible to also be "between" facets? For example, what if one doesn't have a strong preference between early-starting vs pressure-prompted? For example, what if you're usually pretty much right on time with deadlines, rather than rushing at the end or finishing ahead of time?


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## reckful (Jun 19, 2012)

Notanidealist said:


> Is it possible to also be "between" facets? For example, what if one doesn't have a strong preference between early-starting vs pressure-pointed? For example, what if you're usually pretty much right on time with deadlines, rather than rushing at the end or finishing ahead of time?


You can be what they call "mid-zone" on any facet. Here's a description of the "mid-zone" between Early Starting and Pressure-Prompted from an official Step II Report:

Mid-zone
• Are likely to find it hard to get started on a task too much in advance of the deadline.
• Find the pressure of an approaching deadline motivating.
• Work best when the deadline is close enough to cause moderate pressure.
• Have some plans committed to paper as you get started.​


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## atamagasuita (May 15, 2016)

Enfj then try cognitive function. Check your dominant function and your issue will be solved. 

I think judging functions can be Spontaneous too.

I'm a perceiver but i have to do list app, i use calendar as reminder and.. I monitor my menstruation and stuff. 

Not because you're perceived as a judger is that you cannot be a perceiver. If you can manage to do both then that's better.


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