# I really dislike gathering with groups of women



## Curlijessi (Aug 26, 2019)

I strongly dislike anything super femimine. I cant exactly explain why but it makes me want to run away.

Baby showers, wedding showers, mom clubs. The color pink (I have a no pink policy). The conversation is dull and quite painful. Only if its a women only event.

Im an INTP female, is it an NT thing or just me? I just prefer the company and conversation of men. Always have. I did have a group of girl friends in high school who I love and hung around constantly but they were hilarious. They were a rare group. I do have women friends. I usually hang out with them one on one or double date.
Its a problem if you have kids or are married. Not socially acceptable. I would love to go out with a group of men on a "guys" night. They do fun things I would want to do. I end up asking my husband to go out with me to thise same places on a date because he went to a winery, axe throwing or a fun bar with games with the guys


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## Grandmaster Yoda (Jan 18, 2014)

I dislike things that are highly masculine. Of note, the subject of cars and trucks.

I just skipped a "guys' night" today because I didn't want to go. There's not much fun in going to a bar or multiple bars and watching a bunch of guys compete to prove who is the most sexually dominant. It's even weirder a situation due to the variety of people, some of which are weird and don't sync well with women. So it becomes a weird thing where the more successful one tries to "wingman" the unsuccessful one. It's basically exploitation for entertainment purposes.

At least that's how I view guys' night. Well, I guess that isn't fully a guys' night since they are putting themselves in a situation where women are nearby. Even if that isn't quite the case, I've witnessed pushing/shoving and other physical acts that make hanging out with guys uncomfortable in general. All of this is college age material anyway.

I actually went to a friend's house a long time ago and they weren't going to bars or seeking out women. They were basically nerds I suppose. That was a good time. I do say I dislike highly masculine things, but in fairness videos games, other things I guess could be considered masculine. It's not that nonsense.

I remember being taken to a party with alcohol the first time. I didn't enjoy it at all and I wouldn't be "wing-manned" by anyone again, especially after I never asked to be.

On the other hand, baby showers and wedding showers sound worse since there is no way to escape and drink oneself to death in the corner of the room. Wait, maybe there is room for that.


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## Curlijessi (Aug 26, 2019)

Well what I mean by "guys night" is not exactly what you described. 
I mean married guys who are not out to meet women or compete. Maybe what I really want is a goid group of married couples who just want to go out and have fun like I do. 

Im having a game night in 2 weeks hopefully that will go well and there will be a good turnout. I would like to make it a regular thing.

I joined an online nerd group for yhat reason. So far all they have done is go out for cofee on days I couldnt attend or get together at a cafe on days I had other more fun things to do. Come on nerds! I like both video board and card games! Those are all nerdy. Plus I love star wars and doctor who. Im bound to make some friends there! Im waiting until they have something I can go to when Im not busy.


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## HAL (May 10, 2014)

I don't think this is strictly a 'groups of women' problem. I feel the same in most social gatherings.

The larger the group is (and the larger the amount of people who have all willingly chosen to be there because they enjoy that kind of thing), the more dumbed down, generic and meaningless the situation becomes. Everything reduces to inane chatter and stories that mean nothing if you weren't there at the time. As well as this, large groups often result in disarray and indecision. Simple plans can take hours while you wait for conversations to finish, errands to be completed and consensus to be achieved. It's utterly soul destroying. 

Having said that, I still like hanging out with people who are different from me. I only die inside when stuff turns into a full scale group activity.


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## Bella2016 (Mar 5, 2013)

Curlijessi said:


> I strongly dislike anything super femimine. I cant exactly explain why but it makes me want to run away.
> 
> Baby showers, wedding showers, mom clubs. The color pink (I have a no pink policy). The conversation is dull and quite painful. Only if its a women only event.
> 
> ...


When you're in your early 20's and younger it's easy to hang out with guys, but for some reason that gets harder as you get older. I would suggest it may be because guys appear to believe that women have alterior motives if they try hanging out with a group of guys. Maybe some women can do this and it works fine; I'm not sure. I'm easily mis-read. I just stay at home now... wait, that's what we all do


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## Buttahfly (Jul 30, 2013)

I skip anything that has to do with groups, so yea... 
I'm a man, so it's maybe a bit different, but I'm also a gay man. Stereotypically into girls nights and stuff like that.
But I hate it. Most of these nights are about screaming, being very dramatic about guys, clothes... shit-talking people. No thaaanks. I've really tried. But I just can't.


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## Squirt (Jun 2, 2017)

I can relate to this. What I dislike are the expectations surrounding being a woman, and it is uncomfortable to watch women _striving to_ _be feminine. _The behavior of reinforcing gender stereotypes seems to compound when in groups (not that men don't also do this... men actually seem to do it more often, and it is equally intolerable).

I've also had the same frustration, though, where I've wanted to befriend a man because we share similar interests, etc. but need to maintain distance because any attempt at a friendship is misinterpreted by just about everyone.


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## xwsmithx (Jan 17, 2017)

It's not just you. I would suggest it's a smart woman thing rather than specific to a type. The smarter you are, the more annoying typical female behavior tends to be. There's no worse group of misogynists on the planet than female engineers. They hate "women" with a passion, even though they are female themselves.

Speaking as one who doesn't like to hang out with groups of guys OR gals, I don't have a good solution for you. But, you know, seek and ye shall find.


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## superloco3000 (Dec 15, 2017)

What's even the problem here ? i was raised in a 100% female family and i hanged out with just women a few time ( I just can tolerate a few hours really but that is for any group really ) but men are the same ... 

I hate gathering with any group really but for sure ... Actually trying to know individuals is far more important than trying to impose a sterotype 'cause we can't understand or empathize . that is just a limitiation not a virtue.


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## Skimt (May 24, 2020)

Obstinate display of femininity and masculinity is irritating because it's a masquerade that you by social etiquette is supposed to pretend isn't. I have, however, never encountered those groups you've mentioned. Must be an American thing?


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## letsrunlikecrazy (Sep 21, 2015)

I mope about not having friends sometimes but holy fuck am I glad I'm not invited to weddings and baby showers. I don't even want to have my own wedding or have my own baby shower.

That's not to say I don't get along with other women. I do, I just hate group events where everyone feels compelled to put on a show. Wearing the right kind of clothes. Having the right hair and makeup. Moving and holding yourself the right way. Saying the right things with the right tone of voice. Making the right faces at the right times. 

Ughhhhhhhhhh


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## ponpiri (Apr 30, 2017)

Guys nights aren't that fun, OP. I used to have mostly male friends until I hit my early to mid-20s. Going out with the guys involved watching them get drunk, try to pick up women and inanely babble about women who didn't want them, some cars, tits and their ex-girlfriends.

No, thanks. 

As for stereotypically feminine things, I find them more palatable, but still off-putting in that it doesn't interest me either. However, I'm not a fan of group activity in the first place unless it's a fitness class or schooling of some type.

So these days, I have one friend - a woman - who I philosophize and bullshit with and a gaggle of acquaintances to participate in the mundane. The things that are important to me are done alone or just with one other person.

Come to think of it, I liked my male friends better when we had private discussions. Part of it was my aversion to groups but another was that they'd turn into super macho wannabes around other men. It was embarrassing. The female friends I had at that time did it as well.


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## daleks_exterminate (Jul 22, 2013)

HAL said:


> I don't think this is strictly a 'groups of women' problem. I feel the same in most social gatherings.
> 
> The larger the group is (and the larger the amount of people who have all willingly chosen to be there because they enjoy that kind of thing), the more dumbed down, generic and meaningless the situation becomes. Everything reduces to inane chatter and stories that mean nothing if you weren't there at the time. As well as this, large groups often result in disarray and indecision. Simple plans can take hours while you wait for conversations to finish, errands to be completed and consensus to be achieved. It's utterly soul destroying.
> 
> Having said that, I still like hanging out with people who are different from me. I only die inside when stuff turns into a full scale group activity.


Has your brother (that you've mentioned lives in NL) told you about the horror of Dutch circle parties? Uh God.


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## HAL (May 10, 2014)

daleks_exterminate said:


> Has your brother (that you've mentioned lives in NL) told you about the horror of Dutch circle parties? Uh God.


Oh dear oh dear. That whole thing just makes me sad.

I mean, it's obviously got some very traditional roots. But I feel sad when I think of myself being stuck in one.

Would I be right in thinking that circle parties are not that common any more? A bit like British Sunday dinner (another thing that I would hate if I had to do it with any level of regularity. In fact I haven't been to a proper one for several years).

wwwwaaaitaminute.

I just found this: Turning 50 the Dutch way


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## IDontThinkSo (Aug 24, 2011)

I really like gathering with groups of high-skilled nerds

preferably hot and female.


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## islandlight (Aug 13, 2013)

I wasn't going to read this thread, but I'm glad I did.

I live on an island of mostly intelligent, well-meaning people, many of whom have interesting lives or amazing accomplishments. But conversation, well....

I've lived next door to the local cafe for 10 years, but I hardly ever go there. People are very friendly, but it's all "My dog," "My garden," "My house repairs," and "Who died." Maybe a bit of politics, and with guys a bit of technical stuff or "How fast I drove."

There are a few people with whom I can have interesting one-on-one conversations. And there are people with whom _they_ can have interesting conversations. But put three of us together, and it'll be about astrology or neighbor disputes or something else I'm not interested in.

At least now I know I'm not the only one!


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## IDontThinkSo (Aug 24, 2011)

So there is an island on this planet that is filled with extraordinary people who are intelligent but all they talk about is gardens houses cars and their pets.

Ok........


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## islandlight (Aug 13, 2013)

I think it's a lowest-common-denominator thing that happens in groups. If I were to get to know any one of them one-on-one, the topics would be different.

People say interesting things in groups too. But sitting through all the other stuff makes it not worth it to me.


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## xwsmithx (Jan 17, 2017)

IDontThinkSo said:


> I really like gathering with groups of high-skilled nerds
> 
> preferably hot and female.


If I could find a hot female high-skilled nerd, I'd marry her in a heartbeat. However, I've never seen one.


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## Bella2016 (Mar 5, 2013)

xwsmithx said:


> If I could find a hot female high-skilled nerd, I'd marry her in a heartbeat. However, I've never seen one.


Never _recognized_ one. Or never left the house. Acceptable at the moment I suppose.


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## 539885 (Feb 11, 2013)

Lots of really great observations and points (and humor) here. My experience of hanging out with a group of guys vs. ladies in pure masculine vs. feminine setting is this: guys focused on an actual task make for a more interesting group.

I went to a bar with my ex and his friends for pool. And they actually wanted to get gud at pool. I knew the basics of pool, but getting to learn some more advanced thinking was a blast. Getting guys to talk about a common interest, be it sports ball or video games, will get them all going into this show and tell mode. They love teaching someone new and genuinely curious. Then they start debating, all this energy behind this information that they hold dear, batting it back and forth. I love the energy, and I gain a lot from the new perspectives.

Women in a one on one setting, or certain types of women I've been in groups with can do this too. 

But in your average ultra-feminine setting like a baby shower? No task, no redirection, no curiosity will sway anything. From what I can tell, most women are raised to put their identities into others, so appealing to some personal identity just doesn't work. Instead, I listen to conversations where if they're not happy, it's about someone else, and if they are happy, it's about someone else. They give their power away everywhere.

As @Senah pointed out, location matters. I grew up in Michigan, and the thinking was a lot more "do it yourself" independence. I moved to Texas, and went through a ton of culture shock as a young woman. A lot more codependency, gaslighting, etc.

Women in both places are still expected to make sacrifices for their partners/families/kids, but women up north have that expected independence to them that means they still have a sense of self.

For me, it just chafes in general, north, south, east or west. My identity is strongly developed. I don't just have hobbies, dreams, aspirations, I won't repress them or throw them in the backseat just because someone showed up either. Should I meet a partner, or have a family, I don't mind including them in my life, but that's just it... they'll be part of *my* life.

I used to have a problem with the color pink, with froo-froo puffy frilly things. Now that I know what's going on, I don't have a problem with any of that anymore. But I suffocate in environments where women aren't allowed to have a personal identity.


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## contradictionary (Apr 1, 2018)

HGy said:


> I prefer hanging out with women. I hang out with some really smart females who are computer scientists, botanists, outdoorsy and just.. cool.
> 
> The feminine soul is beautiful. Not every female is tolerable, obviously, but I like being around the ones that I share interests with.
> 
> I grew up with only brothers and I'm close to my dad. I gravitate more to men and male interests but I have a soft feminine energy about me. I avoid hanging out with men who are not in my family because when I try to be friends with men they end up getting feelings for me and it's not because I'm any thing special, thats just what happens.


I don't know you are a female or male due to this forum political correctness BS which do not solve anything, i just assume you are female then. Maybe it never occurs to you that as female you will still, deep down inside, somewhat TEND to group with your own kind. As males also do have the same tendencies. As whatever (insert gender indentity whatever here) also have have such tendencies. 

And that when they share space, their biological instincts on opposite sex may override their initial intention of "just" socializing?

Once you recognize that then all those experience you have, is just normal.


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## HGy (Jul 3, 2016)

steffyb said:


> I don't know you are a female or male due to this forum political correctness BS which do not solve anything, i just assume you are female then. Maybe it never occurs to you that as female you will still, deep down inside, somewhat TEND to group with your own kind. As males also do have the same tendencies. As whatever (insert gender indentity whatever here) also have have such tendencies.
> 
> And that when they share space, their biological instincts on opposite sex may override their initial intention of "just" socializing?
> 
> Once you recognize that then all those experience you have, is just normal.


Is english your first language?


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## contradictionary (Apr 1, 2018)

HGy said:


> Is english your first language?


nope. does it matter, you can't follow me?


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## SouDesuNyan (Sep 8, 2015)

I'm a guy, and I am pretty good with gatherings that are super feminine, probably because I rarely encounter such groups, so the topics are novel to me. But, I usually stay quiet, regardless of the group.


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## 545769 (Apr 3, 2019)

I relate to the OP. But I often think it’s because I was raised as a tom boy and my interests are more like fishing and hunting etc...and those are more relaxed atmospheres but activities where you are doing something, not stuck on a chair with an awkward smile on your face. And I tend to have a lot more in common with men...and yet I’m still quite feminine...but when I do hang out with men I generally make sure they are respectful ones. I do have plenty of woman friends though but I hang out with them one on one. And most of them are much older than me so I can relate with them better.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

off topic:

* *





The reason this forum doesn't show gender anymore is not because of "political correct bullshit." It's because it's a cookie cutter format that's mostly used for forums about cars and guns (that's why yeah--when we first transitioned over people could put their mbti info into the "vehicle make and model" line of their profile).

But of course--blame everything on feminism, civil rights, or people attempting not to be assholes. We've asked repeatedly for them to put back the gender thing and get rid of the stupid flags to no avail.




This thread was interesting. It makes sense it's about group dynamics vs. one-on-one. And that gender norms play a role.

Tupperware parties are boring. I remember being in middle school and trying to fit in with friends (I'd just moved there) and they had a Mary Kay party--like where some lady comes and tries to tell how what overpriced makeup and skin products to buy. That's what this thread reminds me of--ugh how horrible. Boring. Also the makeup was boring--all pink and traditional looking. Nothing creative whatsoever and all about how to properly do everything--not like modern makeup tutorials that seem to be a lot more about personal expression.

Or worse--with my old coworkers, all of them were married and talking about you know children and idk...country music or something. Pleasant, appropriate things. Then about how their husbands went gold mining and how silly and stupid men are wanting to go off and do childish stuff like that, and how they were cleaning the house and taking care of the children. It struck me that this was some kind of gender dynamic or something.

But anyway, long story short, I went off for a while and did gold panning by myself. I like the rockhounding. So my ears pricked up when they started talking about their husbands going goldmining. Then husbands came in and I asked about it. Because it's remotely interesting. But then got the vibe like "why are you talking to my husband about this non-woman stuff." Like you just stepped on an invisible mine. So you know--the solution is to just sit there and nod about babies and dinner and pretend you don't want to know what the men get to go off and do. That's just a microcosm of traditional gender roles, but no thanks. I'd much rather go rockhounding, though not with their husbands tbh. I'm so glad we don't live in the fifties.

But I like women--lots of women are intelligent and interesting and fun to be around. It's just that kind of get together is boring as fuck and I'd much rather be doing something else than tuperware, makeup, or talking about babies and dinner...or home decorating or shopping. NO. I don't even consider myself a tom boy and I'm plenty feminine, but some things are just boring to some people, and it's annoying to be expected to be interested in them because of what anatomy you have between your legs.

Reminds me of when I was a little girl and I wanted to learn how to track animals and investigate scat and stuff like the boyscouts (or what I imagined they did) but instead I got to learn macrame with the den mother who told me I wasn't allowed to say "jeeze" because it was taking the Lord's name in vain. Maybe would have been better if I stayed in girl scouts, but I resented how focused it was on tying knots and baking things. I wanted to make fires with flint and cool stuff like that! Again--so glad we don't have the same gender norms as the fifties or before. I'm complaining, but it was a lot worse in other times in history. At least we can wear pants now.


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