# Does this ESFJ like me even though she has BF? What should I do?



## QuiteForced (8 mo ago)

Lonewaer said:


> So, the first (and last) time a girl was "a little bit more than friendly" with me, it turned out later that she was dating somebody. I did interpret that as "she has a boyfriend" so I kept my distances, but that wasn't the full truth, no. She was "trying" to get him, and soon, she made it extremely clear that she was trying to get in my pants, despite also saying the circumstances weren't right. That didn't prevent her to flirt heavily.
> In the end, I fell for it, and she led me on.
> 
> The problem is not intrinsically that she doesn't brag about her boyfriend, although that can be a couple of red flags in itself if she wants to brag about you but not him (why ?). The problem is really that she's being overly friendly/flirty, while she's in a relationship. Now, you'd need to make sure that she actually has a boyfriend and that isn't an assumption on your part. And If she does have a boyfriend, what you need to do is to keep her at bay and ignore her, because that is a problem, for a bunch of reasons. If that's the case, that means her flirting with you means she's either immature, self-unaware, inconsiderate towards her boyfriend, or downright disrespectful towards him. Alternatively it might be that she's just keeping her options open, which can fall into the disrespect category. Whatever the case, do not think for a second that she will change for anyone, and more specifically for you. No, if she does that currently, she will be doing that when she is with you.
> ...


Thank you for putting a lot of thought into this, you deserve my utmost respect.

I totally agree with do not invest / commit any further to her. I'm playing this along because I want to make it believable when I confess and open up everything and if I got any negative response, I would begin my methodical departure and stay away from her.

Personally, I am against the idea of committing to a bf/gf 
True commitment is only to your husband/wife and if you're not ready with said marriage, then just simply hold yourself and try not to use gf/bf as an easy escape route. Okay, at least you can have bf/gf but do not trespass the sex boundary. This idea is quite common in my culture and a lot of people actually have bf/gf only as a flirting friend but no sex, mostly because people can't stand their loneliness. 

So, I respect women who keep their options open more (although she has some type of bf) than women who commit to their bf.

In the end, I need to find out what her true choice is, me who wants to take this matter into a marriage and respect the boundary along the way or her bf and whatever their commitment is.[/QUOTE]


----------



## QuiteForced (8 mo ago)

Joe Black said:


> @QuiteForced is she super duper hot or something? Your rating out of 10?
> How is she in other key areas out of 10? (up to you to figure out what's key)


Super duper hot? Well no, I don't fall to appearance though yes it does matter to some extent but not the key factor for me. 

If I had to give her physical appearance a rating, I would give 6/10 just slightly above average

For me, the key factors are

- We can feel the connection. Talk for hours effortlessly, etc. You can just feel the spark and natural chemistry are just there. 9/10

- We are a good team. We have helped each other out for these 3 months and everything worked so smoothly. 8/10

- No matter what we do or how the day went, we both always enjoyed every moment we shared together. In short, in everything we do, I feel happy and she feels happy, I could tell from her body languages, expressions, etc. 8/10


- She's supportive towards my personal plans and goals, she even willingly helped me find an extra job and I never even asked for it. 9/10

- We share common beliefs, lifestyle, etc. 7/10

- Although we still respect each other's boundary and never did anything truly sexual, but I can feel the sexual tension is just there and it is quite strong. 7/10


----------



## islandlight (Aug 13, 2013)

You seem to have a pretty good idea of what's going on. Probaby more than she has. Why not ask her to break up with her "boyfriend"?


----------



## Joe Black (Apr 1, 2015)

@QuiteForced seems like you already know the answer to your original questions! We're all kinda useless at this point really... 🤣 
So umm.... carpe diem or caveat emptor... not that I speak Chinese or whatever... probably means the same thing! 😏


----------



## Mark R (Dec 23, 2015)

把握今日

How does dating differ in Asian culture from other cultures? In my culture, a boyfriend/girlfriend is usually an exclusive sexual relationship. In certain other cultures boyfriend/girlfriend might be less likely to be sexual or exclusive, It sounds like she is open to dating you. You might have to get to know her better to find out what her relationship is to this other man.


----------



## QuiteForced (8 mo ago)

islandlight said:


> You seem to have a pretty good idea of what's going on. Probaby more than she has. Why not ask her to break up with her "boyfriend"?


Do you think I have the audacity to ask that? 🤣🤣
JK. Maybe ask her to choose between me and him after confessing sounds like a better plan right


----------



## QuiteForced (8 mo ago)

Joe Black said:


> @QuiteForced seems like you already know the answer to your original questions! We're all kinda useless at this point really... 🤣
> So umm.... carpe diem or caveat emptor... not that I speak Chinese or whatever... probably means the same thing! 😏


Usually I'm pretty confident with my deductive skills but when it comes to romance I have million doubts and needs a lot of affirmation from others 🤣

Thanks for your affirmation tho, wish me luck ^^


----------



## QuiteForced (8 mo ago)

Mark R said:


> 把握今日
> 
> How does dating differ in Asian culture from other cultures? In my culture, a boyfriend/girlfriend is usually an exclusive sexual relationship. In certain other cultures boyfriend/girlfriend might be less likely to be sexual or exclusive, It sounds like she is open to dating you. You might have to get to know her better to find out what her relationship is to this other man.


Generally speaking, the spectrum is quite wide. Some may go to sexual relationships while some only use it to accompany them doing their routines (mostly emotional supports) because guess what.. they just want to have somebody who would call them "babe/baby/honey" to make them feel loved. Idk it sounds just so miserable to me 🙂

It seems this ESFJ is more likely to fall on the latter category

Either way, having sex even with your said bf/gf before marriage is considered taboo and would bear a great shame to both parties if it got leaked out publicly.


----------



## ESFJMouse (Oct 13, 2020)

Calmly tell her all of this, then you can know. Be honest as there could have been genuine confusion. Maybe best to talk on a walk or doing something outside...it's more relaxed. That will set a relaxing vibe.


----------



## QuiteForced (8 mo ago)

ESFJMouse said:


> Calmly tell her all of this, then you can know. Be honest as there could have been genuine confusion. Maybe best to talk on a walk or doing something outside...it's more relaxed. That will set a relaxing vibe.


Sure! Will do

It seems our 2nd (unofficial) date to visit a beautiful cafe had to be canceled coz instead, we were working and arranging our trip for a concert next week. Going for a concert is a first time experience both for me and her. She's been hinting for this for weeks and I was pretty late to realize, I was even surprised that she seemed excited when I told her I would love to go there with you lol

Is this a major green flag or nah? Any specific thing I need to do?


----------



## ESFJMouse (Oct 13, 2020)

QuiteForced said:


> Sure! Will do
> 
> It seems our 2nd (unofficial) date to visit a beautiful cafe had to be canceled coz instead, we were working and arranging our trip for a concert next week. Going for a concert is a first time experience both for me and her. She's been hinting for this for weeks and I was pretty late to realize, I was even surprised that she seemed excited when I told her I would love to go there with you lol
> 
> Is this a major green flag or nah? Any specific thing I need to do?


This sounds really cute. A walk outside at dusk is nice too. As an ESFJ here is how I would help you...we have a lot of emotions going on. If you can help us relax, we like that! We are normally very high energy, but if you can help us relax this is great. Talking a nice gentle pace, nice soft music, walking outside, being in nature. etc. etc. Encourage her to relax...a movie, walking beside each other etc. I think the concert is great if she likes the music and is soothing. Normally we are so high energy! But for this moment, you want a casual vibe. "Wouldn't you love a nice tea a walk to that park with the baby turtles?"


----------



## Aarya (Mar 29, 2016)

First time reading your story the following idea came to me:
_-She is attracted by the financial security you or your family can provide to her._

Some call it romantic, some call it a hindrance, some... I don't know, what do you call it?

In front of a screen it's hard to tell if you leaving brings her emotional disconfort because she genuinely likes you, or because it may hurt her ideas of long-term stability.

If I was you I'd talk to her about her conceptions surrounding having money and finances and what she considers good living.

What is her family like, financially?

The other things in your story are what they are, considering your cultural background. It's much like christian families who look down upon sex and living together before marriage.

I genuinely recommend people get some sexual experience before committing for life. How two people get along may not matter, they need to know how the other reacts (emotionally and sexually) to life events, both good and hardships.

It's up to everybody and their beliefs, as the beliefs are extremely important.

I cannot help but feel like most in this thread have a well-developed fantasy world which they want to make the loved one a principal character in.

Be prepared that the other may not want to be its main character after life sends a few blows, or check for that possibility.

You're young, possibly passionate and/or motivated, possibly good-looking, and ready to fall and commit to someone who is cheerful. You've been over a few love scenarios and want to put tgem in practice in a culturally-acceptable way. 

How does your family look upon on break-ups? 

I knew a guy from Hong Kong, we were on a project in Slovakia. Family had money, ok appearance, tall as hell, really friendly and good personality, who confessed to me that at 21 he'd never had a gf or sexual experience and he'd like to try that. I left it at that, I didn't show an interest of "yeah let's sleep together" and we just remained normal friends. But, it gives you a new perspective onto what people do and want, when outside of that cultural peer-pressure. 

I have no idea why I wrote that story 🤭


----------



## QuiteForced (8 mo ago)

ESFJMouse said:


> This sounds really cute. A walk outside at dusk is nice too. As an ESFJ here is how I would help you...we have a lot of emotions going on. If you can help us relax, we like that! We are normally very high energy, but if you can help us relax this is great. Talking a nice gentle pace, nice soft music, walking outside, being in nature. etc. etc. Encourage her to relax...a movie, walking beside each other etc. I think the concert is great if she likes the music and is soothing. Normally we are so high energy! But for this moment, you want a casual vibe. "Wouldn't you love a nice tea a walk to that park with the baby turtles?"


Ah, yes. Thank you. I've got the ideas. ))
It's always nice to hear from ESFJ's POV since she's also one. 

But, could you tell me more, please, as an ESFJ? Do you think she has genuine interest with me, how about me getting friendzoned? Idk but sometimes I feel it is really hard to tell if the person is extroverted. 

Just additional information. I'm quite popular, many girls liked me, even confessed to me, but I had to reject them so many times again and again, because they were simply... very far from my type. And at some points in life, I finally met a couple of girls who were pretty perfect, had the chemistry etc even shared the same dream and future, but they ended up leaving me for childish reasons. Idk, maybe I have some kind of trauma, but I just really hope this time it won't end like that ever again.


----------



## QuiteForced (8 mo ago)

Aarya said:


> First time reading your story the following idea came to me:
> _-She is attracted by the financial security you or your family can provide to her._
> 
> Some call it romantic, some call it a hindrance, some... I don't know, what do you call it?
> ...


"attracted by the financial security"

Well, that sounds interesting. I would call it yellow flag. If she's interested in my capabilities of "securing the financial" then it sounds positive. But if she's interested in my current financial condition, it doesn't sound good to me.

Ok let's spit some fax. My cafe is nowhere near high standard or anything. I could say, if career is what she's after, then she would simply chose other cafes, not mine. There are many better options for that.

But if she's after the owner (which is me) it just sounds more relevant. Education wise, I am a bachelor of one of top three universities in my country while her university is exactly low tier. I also managed to build and run a business in a relatively young age. Not to mention she often praised me for my skills. But idk, this could still go completely wrong, it is just my hunch. 

"What is her family like, financially?" We're somewhat even. Mine is just slightly above her.

Regarding your recommendations, yes, I could agree to some extent. Which is why I think having some moments with her is required before I feel I could actually confess and go for commitments.

"How does your family look upon on break-ups? "

Well, uh, they don't really care. What they often told me is something sounds like "go earn some money and then get married"


----------



## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

Based on the report you gave I selected: Play along & see what happens.

Now just to be clear, I am selecting that for you based on the interest you are expressing. And how this is described. She seems like she is clearly not fully into whatever else she is doing with other dude.

That said, I would not personally fuck with this scenario myself. She may be interested. But if I was you I just would not be interested in this kinda emotional foreplay she is laying down. She seems VERY emotionally high maintenance. I just would not be interested also in someone who was in a monogamous relationship with someone, and even left that much of an opening for me. It demonstrates if they could do it to another person, they can do it to you. Get bored and drop you for emotional attention, I mean.

The exception to what I am about to say is Poly people. Because that is slightly different in their dynamics. But 'normally' monogamous people in exclusive relationships usually do not go and put themselves out there for emotional attention with numerous people. When they are in a decent relationship. If they are in a really bad toxic relationship, and staying and then dragging you in, they demonstrate Co Dependency issues. And why on earth would you going about your life want to take on a 'project'. And that is being hopeful and generous assuming she is just a Co Dependency person, and not a full blown Narcissist.

The only reason I said to let this play out, is because I believe people need to sometimes explore and experience things themselves. That does not change that I think her behavior is incredibly self absorbed, and not truly showing love or kindness to her current partner, or you as a person that I suspect she knows likes her. She is leading someone on in this scenario whether be her current partner, or you, or both. I consider it really self involved. She sounds like the only person she should be dating is herself.

The fact she even fished for that date to the concert etc says alot to me. She definitely knows how to trauma bond with people. Trauma bond does not have to mean to bond over literal trauma in a blatant sense. It can be identifying key areas and holes to infiltrate and use. Now if she was truly a single person I'd think it was sweet that hints were dropped on meeting up and doing concerts and bonding over a shared new experience. But because she is in a relationship, I find her behavior in poor taste. She is emotionally cheating. Think of if you were in a relationship with this chick later. Do you think you can trust her to not do the same to you as she is doing with this guy?

As for her type seems mostly irrelevant. I have a handful friends who are ESFJ. Most are usually attached to the hip to a flaw of their significant others. I do notice a few (not all) have had plan B boys in the background when they are trying to get s/o jealous (silly games). It does not work because the ones I am thinking of always fall for ISTPs anyways. And ISTP ignores those stupid games.


----------



## ESFJMouse (Oct 13, 2020)

QuiteForced said:


> But, could you tell me more, please, as an ESFJ? Do you think she has genuine interest with me, how about me getting friendzoned? Idk but sometimes I feel it is really hard to tell if the person is extroverted.
> 
> Just additional information. I'm quite popular, many girls liked me, even confessed to me, but I had to reject them so many times again and again, because they were simply... very far from my type. And at some points in life, I finally met a couple of girls who were pretty perfect, had the chemistry etc even shared the same dream and future, but they ended up leaving me for childish reasons. Idk, maybe I have some kind of trauma, but I just really hope this time it won't end like that ever again.


Yes and yes! She is interested I would say, and I think it is genuine. Highly sure that she can only care in a genuine child like way. ESFJs tend to be like this. As for friendzoning...you would need to make your plans clear pretty early on. Even if you are her friend, our friends are very special to us, and we cherish them, so that is a good thing as far as I am concerned. 

What childish reasons? Yes, we ESFJs can be mature in many ways we are (we are responsible, dutiful etc. etc.). However, we are kind of like children too at the same time. What kind of trauma?


----------



## Joe Black (Apr 1, 2015)

0.M.I.A.0 said:


> I have a handful friends who are ESFJ. Most are usually attached to the hip to a flaw of their significant others.


My gosh that's true.
I kinda dated an ESFJ once, and my major flaw was that I wasn't really into her. I even told her upfront. My ESFJ sister in law also dated a guy not into her, then married a guy who she can't stop arguing with. Let's not even start with Tay-Tay's Starbuck lovers! 😂
Of course these are only 3 ESFJs - Maybe they're not all like that?
But IF so... WTF cognitive function would cause this?????


----------



## QuiteForced (8 mo ago)

0.M.I.A.0 said:


> Based on the report you gave I selected: Play along & see what happens.
> 
> Now just to be clear, I am selecting that for you based on the interest you are expressing. And how this is described. She seems like she is clearly not fully into whatever else she is doing with other dude.
> 
> ...


Thanks for describing the situation with a more scientific approach. I could say I agree with your opinions on the given context and most of them are even align with my personal values. 

Being an INTJ, I used to force people to fit to my ideals since I have a relatively high standards compared to most people. But, ultimately it led people to eventually leave me. I have had been thinking through this back and forth, and one thing I realized is that it is good to have high standards but at the same time you also have to be realistic, compromising other people's flaws without disrespecting yourself. Which is why this time around I try to fit and understand how is it going for other people. 

For instance, I don't truly know if that boy is really her bf or whatever, what I know is they call each other "babe/honey" that's all. And from there the easiest assumption I can only think of is that the boy is her bf. I have known many people here who do this (calling each other with romantic names) but they aren't really in a relationship either, and vice versa.

That being said, it is also true that this bear a great risk for me. But, I have decided I will live on whatever the consequences are.


----------



## QuiteForced (8 mo ago)

ESFJMouse said:


> Yes and yes! She is interested I would say, and I think it is genuine. Highly sure that she can only care in a genuine child like way. ESFJs tend to be like this. As for friendzoning...you would need to make your plans clear pretty early on. Even if you are her friend, our friends are very special to us, and we cherish them, so that is a good thing as far as I am concerned.
> 
> What childish reasons? Yes, we ESFJs can be mature in many ways we are (we are responsible, dutiful etc. etc.). However, we are kind of like children too at the same time. What kind of trauma?


Thank you for your reassurances! It means a lot to me. Thanks a million. 

"What childish reasons?"

Uhh, I was referring to my previous experiences with various girls, most of them were ENFPs. They left me and broke their promises for reasons I could not tolerate with. I have never been close to any ESFJ female, this is my first time.

"What kind of trauma?"

Umm, mostly about betrayal. But that's okay, I don't want to bring this up ))


----------



## QuiteForced (8 mo ago)

Joe Black said:


> My gosh that's true.
> I kinda dated an ESFJ once, and my major flaw was that I wasn't really into her. I even told her upfront. My ESFJ sister in law also dated a guy not into her, then married a guy who she can't stop arguing with. Let's not even start with Tay-Tay's Starbuck lovers! 😂
> Of course these are only 3 ESFJs - Maybe they're not all like that?
> But IF so... WTF cognitive function would cause this?????


WTF cognitive function would cause this?????

Hahaha.. It surprised me too back then.


----------



## QuiteForced (8 mo ago)

I HAVE FINALLY CONFESSED

Straight to the conclusion, we have mutual feelings and we express our feelings to each other openly. It's been 2 weeks ever since I confessed.

It's also true that she's not that serious with her bf. And If she's about to get serious in a relationship, her mom realy pushes her to go with me as it turned out she's been talking abt me to her mom like every damn week and her mom really support the idea of us being together for a serious relationship.

But still, she said she needs time to finally make that decision, because it's a big leap especially she's still in her college now.
So right now we're just chilling and casually dating.

It took me longer than I expected, the whole confession saga lol. A lot of drama actually.

And oh yeah, the more I know her, the more I realize that she's more of an ENFJ than ESFJ


----------



## ai.tran.75 (Feb 26, 2014)

QuiteForced said:


> I HAVE FINALLY CONFESSED
> 
> Straight to the conclusion, we have mutual feelings and we express our feelings to each other openly. It's been 2 weeks ever since I confessed.
> 
> ...


Congratulations  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------

