# 459 Tritype and Instincts



## JeremiahCrouse (Jan 16, 2021)

I am whatever you experience me as, Goddammit! Thats the whole mfin point. Whats my type? Mbti, tritype, what do you figure? Can you discern it or specify it, just by focusing on me? Well you will see how i refuse to be typed, so what does that make you feel that my type is? Does this not prove that type is illusory?


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## 546407 (Apr 21, 2019)

JeremiahCrouse said:


> God this discussion sucks so hard. No wonder I developed a secondary tritype, the 378. 459 was supposed to be so meaningful and deep, but if it kept me so disconnected from others, what was the point? You guys try and fail miserably at connecting with one another because you find each other predictable and bland. Im sure the reason theres difficulty for the 479 to commit to a relationship with 459 is that 479 has less interest in being the empathic elite. If they wanted that theyd be 459 as well, and the two 459s wouldve never initiated conversation with one another. But God help the 479! I mean what good is that? Must be situation specific. Maybe others accept the 479 as empathic elite (even tho 479 knows the truth) whereas 459 hates that they mislabel 479 the empathic elite, because they know empathic elite, they fully embody it.
> 
> I hate the classification of humanity into sectors such as these. I aim to turn each of you against the other using your own self definitions and concepts. Until no one any longer knows himself, we only see and appreciate each other as we are experienced by others.


Yeah, maybe we are just fucked up people. Still, I'm kind of proud of that.

Also that last paragraph... Are you Jesus Christ or what? I want to see the outcome of that. I don't totally disagree with you in any case.


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## Little Egg (Dec 26, 2010)

@Karkino Your insights are amazing, thank you so much for sharing! You have helped me understand some things better from some of the reading material I've gone through. Honestly I haven't read that much yet in my own journey of self discovery when it comes to Enneagram. I think I've read a fair bit on Myers-Briggs.



hareofcaerbannog said:


> I genuinely wonder how you can intuit on these types behavior. It’s amazing haha. Do you know real life people of these types? Do you read books about them?


I want to know the answer to this too please! 

I've typed myself as a sx 459 three months ago. As I continue to self reflect and do my own research on this, this might change in the future but so far, I think this resonates as true for me.
I think young me did experience some conflict. In particular the need to


Karkino said:


> feel welcomed and accepted by their environment in order to open up and be social.


and the feelings of insecurity due to the impulse to always compare myself to others. Adult me doesn't experience this anymore since I've had many years to practice my social skills now. I'd say I still have insecurities when it comes to work related interactions, specifically job interviews and the initial months of beginning a new field.

Young me also found it difficult to live alone. I think it took me two years before I adapted. Adult me now loves to live alone and I would keep it this way for the rest of my life if I could! I suppose there is a conflict there when it comes to finding a partner. But I think this can be worked around with having enough rooms in a living space to be able to retreat to. Or continuing to live apart while in a relationship.

I don't think I have ever avoided negative feelings because they gave me discomfort (from the FIVE and NINE). I did learn to control and suppress them when around others after I noticed the negative impact they would have on the people around me. I do let my negative emotions express themselves when they occur in private. I have never equated my emotions to my identity but always saw them as having an underlying reason behind why I am feeling that emotion which is why I let myself express them in private. It would be in hoping to be able to get to the real cause behind stimuli.

Overall, I have never felt a persistent or recurring sense of conflict throughout my life (Well I have but I don't think it was from having the 459 tritype. Example: asking myself why I behave the way I do and typology has given me clarity). I think me being an ENFP has something to do with it. I do notice that I am comfortable with interacting in groups and one to one. In groups, I do prefer to let everyone speak first before I have anything to add and I don't always have something constructive to say because most of the good ideas will have already been voiced. I have noticed that I am the least verbal of all the ENFPs I have met in person! In fact, I find it hard to say my opinions when I am with another ENFP because often they just continue to talk with no pause! Public speaking isn't a big problem for me either. I do get feelings of nervousness before the presentation but they usually disappear within minutes.

I am feeling less than optimal from time to time during covid. The bare minimum that I need to feel like me is to spend time outside for a few hours just people watching. The more people that are around me, the more energized I get. Throwing in an impromptu conversation with a stranger is the icing on a cake!


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## Karkino (May 25, 2017)

Little Egg said:


> @Karkino Your insights are amazing, thank you so much for sharing! You have helped me understand some things better from some of the reading material I've gone through. Honestly I haven't read that much yet in my own journey of self discovery when it comes to Enneagram. I think I've read a fair bit on Myers-Briggs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How do you feel about being within a group of people? Do you feel the urge to retreat into your mind and be separate from others or do you prefer tagging along with the team?


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## Little Egg (Dec 26, 2010)

Karkino said:


> How do you feel about being within a group of people? Do you feel the urge to retreat into your mind and be separate from others or do you prefer tagging along with the team?


I'm engaged with the group. I do my best to follow along with the conversation. I rarely lose interest but it does happen, usually because the conversation becomes boring to me. When that happens I will eventually bring myself back to the conversation. I've never timed the duration of my inattentiveness but I don't think it would even last 5 mins, maybe 1-2 mins? I have never felt urges of any kind to retreat into my mind. At the end of the gathering I will sometimes continue the conversation with one of the members if my Ne was stimulated enough (Ne Fi Te Si). It's pretty much guaranteed that my Ne will be stimulated most of the time! I'm usually reluctant to return home at the end of the evening and I feel super energized.


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## Karkino (May 25, 2017)

Little Egg said:


> I'm engaged with the group. I do my best to follow along with the conversation. I rarely lose interest but it does happen, usually because the conversation becomes boring to me. When that happens I will eventually bring myself back to the conversation. I've never timed the duration of my inattentiveness but I don't think it would even last 5 mins, maybe 1-2 mins? I have never felt urges of any kind to retreat into my mind. At the end of the gathering I will sometimes continue the conversation with one of the members if my Ne was stimulated enough (Ne Fi Te Si). It's pretty much guaranteed that my Ne will be stimulated most of the time! I'm usually reluctant to return home at the end of the evening and I feel super energized.


I was just curious about your FIVE preference since the 459 tritype isn't too common for an ENFP to my knowledge. As an INFP, I always default to spacing out and retreat into my mind any time I can, especially in groups.


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## Little Egg (Dec 26, 2010)

Karkino said:


> I was just curious about your FIVE preference since the 459 tritype isn't too common for an ENFP to my knowledge. As an INFP, I always default to spacing out and retreat into my mind any time I can, especially in groups.


Yes, I've heard that from a few people, that ENFP 4s are uncommon. Apparently, this is not turning out to be the case just from data compiled from the PerC community members.
[ENFP] - Official ENFP Enneagram List
We aren't large in number but we aren't as rare as some people think. There was another study I saw that showed the same. I forget where I saw that chart.

I want to make a correction. I *have* felt a strong recurring conflict that pulls me in two opposing directions throughout my life. It was after I read this thread that got me to think:
The Contemplative 459/549/945 tri type: What do you guys...
To sum it up; Getting lost in thinking too much (inactivity) vs. the need/ obsession to creating a life of significance (activity). Perhaps I will discover another conflict as I learn more in the future.

Socially, I do appear to be more reserved and aloof than most ENFPs. Sometimes I will blurt out my thoughts and feel totally comfortable with it. Many times I will catch a look of surprise from the person(s) I am talking to as if they didn't notice my presence (I think this happens mostly with introverted folks). 

The FIVE influences me with what I do with my free time. I admit I spend a huge amount of time learning. The topics are wide and varied as ENFPs have many interests. But I also favor topics that are of interest to 4s such as self-improvement. Self-improvement is the wider general category. Under this category I have delved into mindfulness, weight training, the ketogenic diet, psychology, minimalism, a bit of neuroscience, you get the picture. Because I have so many interests, I don't think I am an expert in any one topic (very ENFP). I think I can appear to lose track of time from an observer. I think I am aware of the time as I do check it (I think I'm very much aware of my surroundings since my attention is focused outwards). I just always choose to continue with my reading than to change the activity. That's not to say, I spend all my free time learning. I will change it up. I also get urges to be social. I don't feel like me if I haven't socialized for longer than a day. I have to be strict with myself to go to bed at the same time. I can easily stay up late reading if I don't monitor this (it feeds both my Ne and the FIVE).

I also relate to the FIVE's fear and motivation. It ties in with my feelings of anxiety with job interviews and beginning a new job.


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## Karkino (May 25, 2017)

Little Egg said:


> Yes, I've heard that from a few people, that ENFP 4s are uncommon. Apparently, this is not turning out to be the case just from data compiled from the PerC community members.
> [ENFP] - Official ENFP Enneagram List
> We aren't large in number but we aren't as rare as some people think. There was another study I saw that showed the same. I forget where I saw that chart.
> 
> ...



How do you feel about intrusion and privacy? Do you tend to be easily annoyed when someone lets itself in without you being notified? Do you tend to easily feel overwhelmed by external stimuli and feel as if you need to recharge and unwind for a prolonged period of time after being outside of your comfort zone?

Thank you for answering my questions so far


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## Little Egg (Dec 26, 2010)

Karkino said:


> How do you feel about intrusion and privacy? Do you tend to be easily annoyed when someone lets itself in without you being notified? Do you tend to easily feel overwhelmed by external stimuli and feel as if you need to recharge and unwind for a prolonged period of time after being outside of your comfort zone?
> 
> Thank you for answering my questions so far


You are very welcome Karkino! I'm enjoying the questions plus I've learned a lot from your input.

Being intruded upon or answering my front door does annoy me! I never thought this little detail could be significant...it might not mean anything. It does make me feel like my peace was disturbed. If it's a repairman and the person enters then I kind of feel violated. I prefer not to invite anyone into my home. I only invite people I trust.

I do get feelings of wanting to be alone. I can't remember if there was ever an instance of it being outside my comfort zone. I mean, I can't think of a time when I'd use "comfort zone" to describe it. I don't think I've ever been overwhelmed by external stimuli, it revs me up. It's more like I get tired when I've gone past my limit. If I'm out at a party for many hours (maybe 5 hrs and up) or if I'm with a person who is extremely extroverted, I will feel relieved once I've left. If the extrovert is someone who I can be myself around, then I don't get those feelings of wanting to retreat. I can be around that person for a really long time. I don't think I need to be alone for very long. Maybe a day is enough and then I'd definitely want to go out again the next day. Even to buy groceries is good.


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## Karkino (May 25, 2017)

Little Egg said:


> You are very welcome Karkino! I'm enjoying the questions plus I've learned a lot from your input.
> 
> Being intruded upon or answering my front door does annoy me! I never thought this little detail could be significant...it might not mean anything. It does make me feel like my peace was disturbed. If it's a repairman and the person enters then I kind of feel violated. I prefer not to invite anyone into my home. I only invite people I trust.
> 
> I do get feelings of wanting to be alone. I can't remember if there was ever an instance of it being outside my comfort zone. I mean, I can't think of a time when I'd use "comfort zone" to describe it. I don't think I've ever been overwhelmed by external stimuli, it revs me up. It's more like I get tired when I've gone past my limit. If I'm out at a party for many hours (maybe 5 hrs and up) or if I'm with a person who is extremely extroverted, I will feel relieved once I've left. If the extrovert is someone who I can be myself around, then I don't get those feelings of wanting to retreat. I can be around that person for a really long time. I don't think I need to be alone for very long. Maybe a day is enough and then I'd definitely want to go out again the next day. Even to buy groceries is good.


Want another fact about 459 tritype? According to Katherine Fauvre, it's the only tritype that takes a litteral step back whenever they feel like someone has overstepped their personal boundaries, especially if unexpected.


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## Little Egg (Dec 26, 2010)

Karkino said:


> Want another fact about 459 tritype? According to Katherine Fauvre, it's the only tritype that takes a litteral step back whenever they feel like someone has overstepped their personal boundaries, especially if unexpected.


I think I've read this before when another PerC member has quoted from Fauvre. I find this information bothers me too. I do this especially with someone who I sense might be attracted to me (I see this as coming too close to my personal boundary too, I retreat emotionally). Young me used to be very forward. I used to ask people out on dates quite often. I haven't been the initiator now for many years. When I sense an attraction, I tend to avoid the person and I find it difficult to maintain eye contact. I think everyone goes through these feelings right? Do you behave the same way? And yeah! I think I do literally take a step back when someone comes too close to me physically.


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## Karkino (May 25, 2017)

Little Egg said:


> I think I've read this before when another PerC member has quoted from Fauvre. I find this information bothers me too. I do this especially with someone who I sense might be attracted to me (I see this as coming too close to my personal boundary too, I retreat emotionally). Young me used to be very forward. I used to ask people out on dates quite often. I haven't been the initiator now for many years. When I sense an attraction, I tend to avoid the person and I find it difficult to maintain eye contact. I think everyone goes through these feelings right? Do you behave the same way? And yeah! I think I do literally take a step back when someone comes too close to me physically.


I become distant and introverted whenever I'm into a new situation. Meeting new people or being out of home makes me automatically run into my shell. However, whenever I'm at home or with my roomates, I'm wild and crazy. I can't stop making jokes and interrupting their speechs to interject my funny inputs. That's why I keep hopping between FIVE and SEVEN as my main tritype. I drives me nuts not knowing which damn number is dominant within me. Lately, I've been tilting towards SEVEN since I always feel the need to be freed from any contraints and downplay most issues in my life. Anyways...


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## mku (Sep 9, 2021)

Karkino said:


> Out of curiosity, how many people with 459 tritype variations (459, 495, 549, 594, 945, 954) are on this forum and if possible for each of you, what is your dominant instinct?
> 
> My guess is that some of the instincts can blend easier with some tritypes than others. For example, I believe that self-preservation is quite at ease with the 459 since it's already a meditative and introspective energy (I'm probably generalizing). Sexual may possibly clash with the overall removed and inhibited archetype, but overall the need for depth might be intensified.
> 
> ...


hello! i really just made this account to reply to this and i have absolutely no idea how to use this platform haha. i'm only 16 but i'm very sure i'm INFP 4w5 459 so/sx (after months of research and lots of thinking, many changes in fixes and IVs) 

i've just never met another 4 in real life before, and i have never known another so/sx 459, not even on another personality site that i'm active on. i thought your discussion was interesting so i wanted to comment on it! 

i've read a few so/sx descriptions for 4, and since it's social dominant, sexual energy will push the social energy even further out than so/sp. i've had the pleasure of knowing two friends of this tritype in real life (INFP 945 sp/sx, INTP 594 sp/so) and we are vastly different. 

you're right where the social instinct is out of touch from the 459. i only know how to speak from experience so i'll do so. 

i highly doubted being social-dominant at first because 
1) i've never particularly cared much about social norms and ranking
2) i focused on myself and the emotional worlds of others' (around me) more 

i think being the most introspective 4 yet a social variant has been interesting. most often when i found myself being unhealthy by dwelling on sadness or whatsoever i was torn apart by needing validation from those around me for my dramatic sorrow yet wanting to withdraw and protect myself instead. (also the fact that i was deathly afraid of disturbing others' peace of mind. it just would not be me to do so.) so yes, i didn't relate to the social description of 4s by beatrice chestnut that much until i started looking even deeper into my own actions and how i tended to run from friend to friend with the same exact issue: wanting pity. but it was never enough, and i hated how i acted. 

being in a crowd energises yet drains me. i can be smiling and laughing with my friends one moment and upset and miserable the next, but i would hide it a lot. which honestly also made me wonder if i was a 479 or 4w3, because i can get really scattered just to impress others, but stay true to myself at the same time. though being scattered and fake terrifies me. 

for example; i want the group to think of me as a funny mess, but at the same time i don't have the energy to complete it. so i take awhile to observe others and blend in before doing my best to stick out as someone who can both be loud and quiet, funny and serious. (which works!) i adapt to mannerisms i believe is funny and are tested out, confirmed to be funny, and i'll adapt it into my personality. again this is very draining so sometimes i just avoid social confrontation altogether.

i have an online friend who's INFP 4w3 459 sx/sp, so maybe you'd like to hear about that as well. 
we're the same yet different. he's a little less sensitive towards others' feelings, in a way. in a romantic sense of longing for a partner, i've always just wanted a friend who could match my chaotic energy but also someone who knew when i had drained all my energy and to allow me some time to myself. someone who could validate me and help me but also someone who i could validate and help. 

on the other hand, he wanted someone who would rely on him. someone who wasn't perfect but also perfect at the same time, someone he could protect and fix. as an sx459 he is really logical, much more than i am and i'm not sure if it relates to instincts or not but yes i'm a lot more sensitive, even when healthy. 

i don't think you'll reply to this but it was still interesting to find someone who's so/sx 459. i hope you're doing fine


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## Karkino (May 25, 2017)

mku said:


> hello! i really just made this account to reply to this and i have absolutely no idea how to use this platform haha. i'm only 16 but i'm very sure i'm INFP 4w5 459 so/sx (after months of research and lots of thinking, many changes in fixes and IVs)
> 
> i've just never met another 4 in real life before, and i have never known another so/sx 459, not even on another personality site that i'm active on. i thought your discussion was interesting so i wanted to comment on it!
> 
> ...



Very interesting to see another 459 so/sx. I don`t have anything to say atm but I'll think of something later for sure  Thanks for your comment.


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## Karkino (May 25, 2017)

mku said:


> hello! i really just made this account to reply to this and i have absolutely no idea how to use this platform haha. i'm only 16 but i'm very sure i'm INFP 4w5 459 so/sx (after months of research and lots of thinking, many changes in fixes and IVs)
> 
> i've just never met another 4 in real life before, and i have never known another so/sx 459, not even on another personality site that i'm active on. i thought your discussion was interesting so i wanted to comment on it!
> 
> ...



About being the most extroverted variant in an introverted tritype speaks to me the most. People often have a double take whenever they see me act a bit crazy or loud for a brief period of time if they don't know me that much. They think of me as being very shy and a bit off-putting at first, but I can reveal to be very lively somehow. 


mku said:


> (also the fact that i was deathly afraid of disturbing others' peace of mind. it just would not be me to do so.)


Yes, I was so afraid of that in my childhood up to my late teens.



mku said:


> i didn't relate to the social description of 4s by beatrice chestnut that much until i started looking even deeper into my own actions and how i tended to run from friend to friend with the same exact issue: wanting pity. but it was never enough, and i hated how i acted.


Her social FOUR description rang truth at first and still does to me. I've always been very openly self-conscious and had a hard time hiding my emotions to other people.



mku said:


> for example; i want the group to think of me as a funny mess, but at the same time i don't have the energy to complete it. so i take awhile to observe others and blend in before doing my best to stick out as someone who can both be loud and quiet, funny and serious. (which works!) i adapt to mannerisms i believe is funny and are tested out, confirmed to be funny, and i'll adapt it into my personality. again this is very draining so sometimes i just avoid social confrontation altogether.


Yeah, I can see myself in that description. My quirkiness becomes very obvious when I start rambling about the enneagram for 4 hours non stop even if said person seems mildy interested in it.


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## KK459 (7 mo ago)

Karkino said:


> Out of curiosity, how many people with 459 tritype variations (459, 495, 549, 594, 945, 954) are on this forum and if possible for each of you, what is your dominant instinct?
> 
> My guess is that some of the instincts can blend easier with some tritypes than others. For example, I believe that self-preservation is quite at ease with the 459 since it's already a meditative and introspective energy (I'm probably generalizing). Sexual may possibly clash with the overall removed and inhibited archetype, but overall the need for depth might be intensified.
> 
> ...


I’m an INFP 4w5 459 so/sx, which is apparently a very rare combination. And I can see why, as it seems to be a highly complex and contradictory fusion of types. The 459, being triple withdrawn (esp. with the double withdrawn core and wing combination, 4w5), is probably the enneagram typing that has the hardest time finding a community or place where they feel like they belong or fit in, and I certainly relate to this deeply. And then you have the social instinct that is the most concerned with and attuned to group/social dynamics and hierarchies, and when you combine this with the most introspective and contemplative (probably also the most likely to overthink) tritype, you get a perfect recipe for social anxiety and/or social dissatisfaction and longing. And I would guess that adding in the secondary sexual instinct would increase the intensity of these feelings of social anxiety and inferiority even more, as the lack of the self-preservation instinct makes it so that focusing on the self and ignoring the outer world is even more difficult and unnatural. I feel like it’s a pretty good combination for leading to self-destructive patterns of thought and behaviors and habits.

I still have yet to meet anyone in any capacity (or even just see one identifying themself with this same typological profile on a forum like this) with this tritype/instinct combo. If any of you happen to be out there (though if you are, you’re probably either hiding or observing silently ;p) or even someone who knows someone of this same typing, please let me know!


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