# How does a HIGHLY developed Ti look like?



## BlackLion (Mar 29, 2014)

Thoughts and knowledge shall be shared in this thread.:ninja:


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## Bash (Nov 19, 2014)

From 4:35


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## O_o (Oct 22, 2011)

?


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## PaladinX (Feb 20, 2013)




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## tangosthenes (Oct 29, 2011)

PaladinX said:


>


Yep, basically. If you want to do some serious world-downloading, go read the modern-day bible that is the Critique of Pure Reason.

Alternative post:
I'm want you,the reader, to think I'm smart and know about big books.

Alternative post 2:
I am the highest definition of highly-developed Ti, troll my post history and you will be delighted, enlightened, and thrown into ecstasies of pure mental horror.

Alternative post 3:
Highly developed Ti is a Ti that understands its own limits, understands the principles it is grounded on, and uses these to effectively elucidate the world(after a period of time guaranteeing a successful answer, or at least a very good one).


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## Grandmaster Yoda (Jan 18, 2014)

Logic, logic everywhere!


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## cheapsunglasses (May 13, 2014)

Since it's an introverted function, I don't know how anyone can describe what Ti looks like, much less highly developed Ti. You can't see introverted functions in action, only the byproduct of it. I've read that those with high Ti tend to be able to summarize really well. I assumed that to mean that the person took the information and pared it down to its essence… and synthesizes it into something new. This is opposed to Te, where breaking a task down into steps, logically and in a systematic order is the result, as an example. 

HTH


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## Empty (Sep 28, 2011)

The increased sythentical prowess of Ti as it matures is one primary signifier.


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## KraChZiMan (Mar 23, 2013)

BlackLion said:


> Thoughts and knowledge shall be shared in this thread.:ninja:


I have noticed that intelligent Ti-Types tend to actually look more casual and friendly, meanwhile Ti-types who are not intelligent tend to look like as if they have aspergers with their misantrophy. This is actually different from Fi, where intelligent Fi-types are slightly mysterious and sceptical while unintelligent Fi-types are overly happy (I love flowers and cats, wish world peace, love everyone - kind of hippie bullshit) and naive.

Highly developed Ti also means better ability to adapt in society, by having more relaxed approach instead of mindless rebellion and hate of "stupid people", authority etc.

Usually when I talk with ISTP's or INTP's who are more educated, share common interests with me or are slightly older and have more experience in life, I can get along with them pretty well. 

From Fi-type perspective, I see that many Ti-types have intense fear of people knowing or guessing something about them that they can't see. Afraid of criticism, people talking behind their backs, afraid of "conspiracies", etc. This is common trait in ESTP's, ENTP's, ISTP's and INTP's. These types don't even flinch when you say "you are stupid", but flip out of their minds when you say "someone told me that you are stupid". I personally see this as excessive and irrational, because most things people say about you will never be valid. Most people who behave like that (wishing bad things to happen with someone in front of people related to that person in some way) instantly become absolutely worthless and worthless people can not have valid opinions.

How is this connected to the topic? Simple: highly developed Ti is highly developed enough to adapt to the world around us, and minimize and cover it's weaknesses. Highly developed Ti is not about writing a magnificent encyclopedia, it's about functioning in the world properly and developing own niche without acting on its fears.


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## PaladinX (Feb 20, 2013)

KraChZiMan said:


> I have noticed that intelligent Ti-Types tend to actually look more casual and friendly, meanwhile Ti-types who are not intelligent tend to look like as if they have aspergers with their misantrophy.


What does that mean? I have Asperger's and I like people.


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## KraChZiMan (Mar 23, 2013)

PaladinX said:


> What does that mean? I have Asperger's and I like people.


Actually having aspergers is much better than looking like you have asperger's, but actually not having it


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## ScientiaOmnisEst (Oct 2, 2013)

KraChZiMan said:


> I have noticed that intelligent Ti-Types tend to actually look more casual and friendly, meanwhile Ti-types who are not intelligent tend to look like as if they have aspergers with their misantrophy. This is actually different from Fi, where intelligent Fi-types are slightly mysterious and sceptical while unintelligent Fi-types are overly happy (I love flowers and cats, wish world peace, love everyone - kind of hippie bullshit) and naive.
> 
> Highly developed Ti also means better ability to adapt in society, by having more relaxed approach instead of mindless rebellion and hate of "stupid people", authority etc.
> 
> ...



What this sounds like is the "intelligent" Ji-types have integrated their inferior, or at least have a better handle on it and aren't actively repressing it.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

cheapsunglasses said:


> Since it's an introverted function, I don't know how anyone can describe what Ti looks like, much less highly developed Ti. You can't see introverted functions in action, only the byproduct of it. I've read that those with high Ti tend to be able to summarize really well. I assumed that to mean that the person took the information and pared it down to its essence… and synthesizes it into something new. This is opposed to Te, where breaking a task down into steps, logically and in a systematic order is the result, as an example.
> 
> HTH


Incorrect. You can observe introverted functions in action or it would be impossible to for example say that when Ni types talk about personal symbolism that it truly is Ni they are expressing. Of course you can observe the introverted functions because if we couldn't, then how do we even know that they exist outside the postulated theory that they do?


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## cheapsunglasses (May 13, 2014)

Entropic said:


> Incorrect. *You can observe introverted functions in action* or it would be impossible to for example say that when Ni types talk about personal symbolism that it truly is Ni they are expressing. Of course you can observe the introverted functions because if we couldn't, then how do we even know that they exist outside the postulated theory that they do?


_In action_ would be the by-product I mentioned. Introverted functions happen internally and unconsciously. Tell me how you can observe my dominant Si. Tell me how you can see me process data.

I can't see someone summarize, but I can read a summary once they write it or express it. That writing or expression is a by-product of the function, not the function itself. I cannot observe their thought processes, only behaviors. 

I'm not trying to argue with you. I think the disagreement is likely semantics.


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## Kavik (Apr 3, 2014)

I was under the impression that a highly developed Ti draws impersonal conclusions from personal observation without getting locked on what they think is true to the point they seem obsessive and eccentric with a refusal to change their stance. I believe a mature Ti is able to hear someone say something that they know to be untrue yet not get all bent out of shape about it. Letting an untruth slide and not make a scene about it is probably the ultimate sign of control and maturity for a Ti.


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## Modal Soul (Jun 16, 2013)

Bash said:


> From 4:35


"i can and it's funny when i do and sometimes i do it just for kicks but"

sometimes he can be annoying but man does he make me laugh

accurate


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## Modal Soul (Jun 16, 2013)

Entropic said:


> Incorrect. You can observe introverted functions in action or it would be impossible to for example say that when Ni types talk about personal symbolism that it truly is Ni they are expressing. Of course you can observe the introverted functions because if we couldn't, then how do we even know that they exist outside the postulated theory that they do?


hmm i don't know. it sounds like that's what she was saying, but you may have read it differently from me



cheapsunglasses said:


> Since it's an introverted function, I don't know how anyone can describe what Ti looks like, much less highly developed Ti. You can't see introverted functions in action, *only the byproduct of it.* I've read that those with high Ti tend to be able to summarize really well. I assumed that to mean that the person took the information and pared it down to its essence… and synthesizes it into something new. This is opposed to Te, where breaking a task down into steps, logically and in a systematic order is the result, as an example.
> HTH


she wasn't saying you wouldn't be able to see the function at play _ever_, but that when you finally do, it's after the person has been using the function for a while, if that makes sense. so, in this case, after they have been able to 'hone' their thoughts

i've always thought of extroverted functions as a means of outputting information and introverted functions as a means of inputting/digesting information. the reason 'quiet' and 'shy' stereotypes are attributed to introverts is because their main function is directed inwards so, in order to function properly, they need to spend an adequate amount of time mentally engaged in this dominant function of theirs. that's not news to either of us, i just thought i'd throw that in there for shits and giggles sake

so when a dominant Ti user is communicating with others, they'll use their Ne and Fe (INTP) or their Se and Fe (ISTP) to do so. these are the functions in which they express their thoughts. their introverted functions _filter_ their thoughts before they're put through the 'reverse funnel' that is both Ne and Fe. 

ugh i can't find the energy to finish typing up this post, but i'm posting it anyway

hopefully you can fill in the blanks for me

hi princessK


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## Bash (Nov 19, 2014)

Entropic said:


> Incorrect. You can observe introverted functions in action or it would be impossible to for example say that when Ni types talk about personal symbolism that it truly is Ni they are expressing. Of course you can observe the introverted functions because if we couldn't, then how do we even know that they exist outside the postulated theory that they do?


The same way black holes are observed.


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## FakeLefty (Aug 19, 2013)

Whenever the Ti-user BS's and you never know that they do. :tongue:


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## Bash (Nov 19, 2014)

FakeLefty said:


> Whenever the Ti-user BS's and you never know that they do. :tongue:


This actully has quite some substance to it. Thank you.


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## Lestany (Sep 2, 2014)

ScientiaOmnisEst said:


> What this sounds like is the "intelligent" Ji-types have integrated their inferior, or at least have a better handle on it and aren't actively repressing it.


Exactly. I was diagnosed with Aspergers in my teens and have since then disregarded it. Every 'symptom' I had can be explained by inferior Fe. What does this have to do with intelligence though? If anything, a highly developed Ti function would aide in IQ tests scoring, but one who uses their Ti more often will use Fe less often, so in theory, this has the potential to make a person MORE socially awkward, not less.


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## Bash (Nov 19, 2014)

Lestany said:


> Exactly. I was diagnosed with Aspergers in my teens and have since then disregarded it. Every 'symptom' I had can be explained by inferior Fe. What does this have to do with intelligence though? If anything, a highly developed Ti function would aide in IQ tests scoring, but one who uses their Ti more often will use Fe less often, so in theory, this has the potential to make a person MORE socially awkward, not less.


One of my exes is an aspie. One of the most obvious problems seem to be lack of an intuitve understanding of people, what is expected and the motvations of other. Because of this, people with Asbergers process this with logical brain power. Very energy-consuming, of course. I suppose that improved Si and Fe would mask it, if not cure.


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## ScientiaOmnisEst (Oct 2, 2013)

Lestany said:


> Exactly. I was diagnosed with Aspergers in my teens and have since then disregarded it. Every 'symptom' I had can be explained by inferior Fe. What does this have to do with intelligence though? If anything, a highly developed Ti function would aide in IQ tests scoring, but one who uses their Ti more often will use Fe less often, so in theory, this has the potential to make a person MORE socially awkward, not less.


It sounds like you're confusing development with overreliance or simply high use. They aren't really the same. By definition, a dominant function user relies on a particular function, they default to it. Developing that function means learning to harmonize that dominant mindset with other functions - including its opposite, the inferior. With lower level functions, development would likely mean learning to access that part of one's thought process effectively and proficiently, whatever that may mean for the individual. It's balance, really. I think that's the separation between a highly developed function and a strong one. A strong function can do whatever it does to a high level. A developed one can not only act to a high level but do so in relative sync with other functions. And that takes a certain level of intelligence to achieve.

All highly developed functions are strong, but not all strong functions are highly developed. 

Just my take on it anyway.


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## an absurd man (Jul 22, 2012)




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## Raawx (Oct 9, 2013)

KraChZiMan said:


> I have noticed that intelligent Ti-Types tend to actually look more casual and friendly, meanwhile Ti-types who are not intelligent tend to look like as if they have aspergers with their misantrophy. This is actually different from Fi, where *intelligent Fi-types are slightly mysterious and sceptical *while unintelligent Fi-types are overly happy (I love flowers and cats, wish world peace, love everyone - kind of hippie bullshit) and naive.


Confirmed that I am intelligent.

(but actually, I think you make a good point, people don't think I'm an ENFP just because of "my intelligence" if we want to call it that, though I suspect that's not fully it...)

In my opinion, it's just a more balanced person is all. I think the "intelligent" Fi types seem less "fluffy" because they've developed all of their functions--not just our dominant and auxiliary. Instead of relying heavily on Fi, they've also got a healthier, more balanced use of Ne, Si and Te, in the case of the INFP. I think that's what you were alluding to, but didn't realize it.

Edit: Damnit. @ScientiaOmnisEst beat me to it.


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

tangosthenes said:


> Yep, basically. If you want to do some serious world-downloading, go read the modern-day bible that is the Critique of Pure Reason.
> 
> Alternative post:
> I'm want you,the reader, to think I'm smart and know about big books.
> ...


One sign of developed Ti is using appropriate words in context. I count 5 errors in your writing which I find humorous. 

Was it intentional?


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

KraChZiMan said:


> I , it's about functioning in the world properly and developing own niche without acting on its fears.


This is written from an introvert's point of view. What would an extroverted Ti user look like?


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## Bahburah (Jul 25, 2013)

The very start of this video really illustrates it well.
The character is defiantly an INTP and the show is about him figuring things out.






Around 4:03 is another good Ti illustration.


Ti always has to compare and reflect on information to some sort of standard. Similar to Te.
Yet the difference is that that standard is totally subjective, and always changing.

So Ti is constantly trying to find the truth, core reasoning, or just trying to figure out everything.
And uses it's subjective experiences and thoughts to bounce ideas off of.

So because of this, when pared with a Pe function (Se or Ne) they can endlessly question themselves. Literally *endlessly*.
Because of this endlessness the rational thinking is born.
Ti will use chance, likelihood, information, subjective experience, and even intuition to narrow down the endless possibilities to what is likely happening. All quite quickly as well if it's well developed, almost as if they don't even have to think about it.

Ideas are just as important as facts to Ti.

Ti is basically always trying to narrow down and find the core truth of something.



What it looks like in a person?
I don't know good deductive reasoning skills. Just good reasoning in general since thats all Ti does.

Ti is much more "rational" than logical.
Te is the more logical function.


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## Bahburah (Jul 25, 2013)

Grandmaster Yoda said:


> Logic, logic everywhere!


Disagree. 

It's all about that deductive reasoning.


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

Bahburah said:


> Disagree.
> 
> It's all about that deductive reasoning.


where does inductive reasoning come in?


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## tangosthenes (Oct 29, 2011)

drmiller100 said:


> One sign of developed Ti is using appropriate words in context. I count 5 errors in your writing which I find humorous.
> 
> Was it intentional?


I have some inkling of which words you're going to pick out, but in general, idk. Sometimes I know something is awkward phrasing but I don't bother with changing it.


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

tangosthenes said:


> I have some inkling of which words you're going to pick out, but in general, idk. Sometimes I know something is awkward phrasing but I don't bother with changing it.


Why? Precision of words is important to me. I always attributed this desire to Ti, and I work to improve.

Are you different?


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## Bahburah (Jul 25, 2013)

KraChZiMan said:


> I have noticed that intelligent Ti-Types tend to actually look more casual and friendly, meanwhile Ti-types who are not intelligent tend to look like as if they have aspergers with their misantrophy. This is actually different from Fi, where intelligent Fi-types are slightly mysterious and sceptical while unintelligent Fi-types are overly happy (I love flowers and cats, wish world peace, love everyone - kind of hippie bullshit) and naive.
> 
> Highly developed Ti also means better ability to adapt in society, by having more relaxed approach instead of mindless rebellion and hate of "stupid people", authority etc.
> 
> ...


This is a really good overview and I see a LOT of myself in it and will make me do a lot of self evaluation and reflection.
So I want to say thanks.

Altho I must say for you to say that ideas can be worthless is your Te talking.

Out of those ideas can spawn creativity, no matter how far out it is.

And this is what Ti values.

Good post though.



ScientiaOmnisEst said:


> What this sounds like is the "intelligent" Ji-types have integrated their inferior, or at least have a better handle on it and aren't actively repressing it.


This is a good point.
It's not that an unintelligent Ti dom's Ti is underdeveloped if there very out there with there ideas. In fact there probably more focused on there Ti when they should be paying attention to there other functions. 



Kavik said:


> I was under the impression that a highly developed Ti draws impersonal conclusions from personal observation without getting locked on what they think is true to the point they seem obsessive and eccentric with a refusal to change their stance. I believe a mature Ti is able to hear someone say something that they know to be untrue yet not get all bent out of shape about it. Letting an untruth slide and not make a scene about it is probably the ultimate sign of control and maturity for a Ti.


True but is that the Ti letting it slide or there more developed Fe? Or other developed functions?





Sorry for the long posts of quoting. I was just playing a game of Mafia on the sight.
That is a game that fucks with your Ti in the worse way since everything is unknown.


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## Bahburah (Jul 25, 2013)

drmiller100 said:


> where does inductive reasoning come in?



No inductive reasoning.

Deductive reasoning is Ti.

Narrowing down options to reach a conclusion. 

Inductive is Te.

Opening up options to find what the conclusion is.


I just watched this video and I think it explains Ti vs Te very well.


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## tangosthenes (Oct 29, 2011)

drmiller100 said:


> Why? Precision of words is important to me. I always attributed this desire to Ti, and I work to improve.
> 
> Are you different?


It's rare that I'm on the ball these days(just energy issues), and word choice is one of the things that falls to the side first in order to preserve integrity of the idea in some articulated form, because as long as I remember the guess, I can develop it and communicate it better later on.


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## Kavik (Apr 3, 2014)

Bahburah said:


> True but is that the Ti letting it slide or there more developed Fe? Or other developed functions?


Not 100% sure.


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## ae1905 (Jun 7, 2014)

Bahburah said:


> Ti is basically always trying to narrow down and find the core truth of something.





Bahburah said:


> No inductive reasoning.
> 
> Deductive reasoning is Ti./QUOTE]
> 
> Ti wants to bring as much of the world into its understand as possible so when it discovers some truth it looks around to see where else it might apply. Looking around and extending a truth is inductive. So Ti works by both deductive and inductive reasoning. That's how it creates wide-ranging theories such as you find in science.


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## itisapotato (Dec 16, 2014)

Think Sherlock Holmes.


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

ae1905 said:


> Bahburah said:
> 
> 
> > No inductive reasoning.
> ...


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## Noir (Jun 20, 2014)

Hm. Everyone seems to attribute the highly developed process of a Ti with Ne, but how about highly developed Ti with Se? Interaction with other functions can alter things pretty heavily.
@itisapotato

Sherlock Holmes' reasoning is based more around Se than Ti, at least in Doyle's books.


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## Gurpy (Aug 8, 2014)

It looks like someone who is in his/her head a lot

They might say random and irrelevant things sometimes but to them it all makes sense in their heads


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## Afterburner (Jan 8, 2013)

@Gurpy that sounds like any INxx.

Highly developed Ti looks like Kant or Russell (with Ne). With Se, Bruce Lee.


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

Noir said:


> Hm. Everyone seems to attribute the highly developed process of a Ti with Ne, but how about highly developed Ti with Se? Interaction with other functions can alter things pretty heavily.
> @_itisapotato_
> 
> Sherlock Holmes' reasoning is based more around Se than Ti, at least in Doyle's books.


Ti and Se is often considered a race car driver, or pro athlete. Incredibly quick reflexes, very good at translating physical stimuli to logical decision making.

Maybe a cop, but following rules and laws might be better for Si/Te.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

Noir said:


> Hm. Everyone seems to attribute the highly developed process of a Ti with Ne, but how about highly developed Ti with Se? Interaction with other functions can alter things pretty heavily.
> @_itisapotato_
> 
> Sherlock Holmes' reasoning is based more around Se than Ti, at least in Doyle's books.



Alas, Sherlock Holmes is an INTP, 5w6, 584, So/Sp. He acts only when he has all the data (those who continually try to make him an INTJ are missing the point). 

Everything he does is a result of logical deduction of the facts.(Ti: Analyzing, categorizing, and evaluating according to logical principles) ​
He then organizes them according to a systematic framework of meaning and context. (Ne: Interpreting situations and relationships and pickup meanings and interconnections to other contexts)​
He backs this up with a ready reference of information he's already worked out, such as: having analyzed the difference between over 200 different types of tobacco ash. (Si: Reviewing and recalling past experiences and seeking detailed data).​
He also eliminates all other probabilities until there is only one possible solution to the problem, which would seem to me to indicate a preference for P over J. You have to be able to see all the possibilities to eliminate them, right? 

We could go as far as inferior Fe, he really had a problem with the one woman in his life: Irene Adler. He never could figure out how he felt about her. 

Therefore: INTP: No Se required.


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## PaladinX (Feb 20, 2013)

tanstaafl28 said:


> Alas, Sherlock Holmes is an INTP, 5w6, 584, So/Sp. He acts only when he has all the data (those who continually try to make him an INTJ are missing the point).
> 
> Everything he does is a result of logical deduction of the facts.(Ti: Analyzing, categorizing, and evaluating according to logical principles) ​
> He then organizes them according to a systematic framework of meaning and context.(Ne: Interpreting situations and relationships and pickup meanings and interconnections to other contexts)​
> ...


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## Noir (Jun 20, 2014)

tanstaafl28 said:


> Alas, Sherlock Holmes is an INTP, 5w6, 584, So/Sp. He acts only when he has all the data (those who continually try to make him an INTJ are missing the point).
> 
> Everything he does is a result of logical deduction of the facts.(Ti: Analyzing, categorizing, and evaluating according to logical principles) ​
> He then organizes them according to a systematic framework of meaning and context. (Ne: Interpreting situations and relationships and pickup meanings and interconnections to other contexts)​
> ...


Actually, I was thinking ISTP rather than INTJ. I am on the phone, but I will detail my view later.


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## Ninjaws (Jul 10, 2014)

"What* does a highly developed Ti look like?". 
I don't know why people keep writing "How it looks like", but it's either 'How it looks' or 'What it looks like'.


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## Noir (Jun 20, 2014)

@tanstaafl28

Ok, so here I go.

First of all, we both agree he's using Ti, no problem here. 



> He then organizes them according to a systematic framework of meaning and context.
> (Ne: Interpreting situations and relationships and pickup meanings and interconnections to other contexts)


True, but your argument is very vague. I really do not seem him do that all that often. One could argue he's actually using Ti to place everything together, breaking apart everything he sees then reconstructing the problem. 

But the fundamental reasoning behind why I do not think he is a Ne user is this: Ne continuously adds information, seeking to enlarge the process and find a connection between all things. Sherlock Holmes does not do that, quite the contrary, he continuously narrows done things, focusing on the details that make things improbable. 

Also, you say no Se?



> "The world is full of obvious things which nobody by any chance ever observes."
> 
> Sherlock Holmes Quote
> 
> ...





> 'You see, but you do not observe. The distinction is clear.'
> 
> Sherlock Holmes Quote
> 
> -A Scandal in Bohemia





> 'You know my method. It is founded upon the observation of trifles.'
> 
> Sherlock Holmes Quote
> 
> -The Bascombe Valley Mystery


What has been perhaps Sherlock's greatest characteristic is his ability to always scan and notice the very details of whatever case he was studying. He'd always notice the most insignificant of things. 
INTP's are usually highly unaware of their environment. I have a friend who is an INTP and often enough I pass by him without him ever noticing me. He has such a rich inner world that he almost ignores the outer one. That is not to say an INTP wouldn't be able to pay attention to the exterior world, but he'd certainly not notice the smallest of details. 



> "Data! Data! Data!" he cried impatiently. "I can't make bricks without clay."
> 
> Sherlock Holmes Quote
> 
> -The Adventure of the Copper Beeches


He always insists on having gathered data. Again, this indicates he prefers sensing to intuition.



> He backs this up with a ready reference of information he's already worked out, such as: having analyzed the difference between over 200 different types of tobacco ash.


Referencing things has nothing to do with Si. Si compares feelings, sensations with the ones from the past. People with Si are also have highly developed motor skills and have quite a high dexterity. Backing things up with studies does in no way indicate Si.



> We could go as far as inferior Fe, he really had a problem with the one woman in his life: Irene Adler. He never could figure out how he felt about her.


And how exactly does this indicate Fe? Any form of inferior feeling can be troublesome.

On Ni: 


> In solving a problem of this sort, the grand thing is to be able to reason backward. That is a very useful accomplishment, and a very easy one, but people do not practice it much. – A Study in Scarlet





> Sherlock Holmes closed his eyes and placed his elbows upon the arms of his chair, with his fingertips together. The ideal reasoner, he remarked, “would, when he had once been shown a single fact in all its bearings, deduce from it not only all the chain of events which led up to it but also all the results which would follow from it. – The Five Orange Pips
> 
> … few people, however, who if you told them a result, would be able to evolve from their own inner consciousness what the steps were which led up to that result. – A Study in Scarlet


This is definitely Ni. 



> Because it does much of its work subconsciously, Ni can seem to have a certain magical quality about it. In fact, it is not unusual for INJs to be viewed as having some degree of psychic or prophetic abilities.Despite its magical appearance, Ni can be understood on a rational basis. What seems to be occurring is that many INJs have a highly sensitive inferior function, Extraverted Sensation (Se), which gathers copious amounts of sensory information from the outside world, including subtleties that other personality types tend to miss. Their Ni then subconsciously processes this data in order to make sense of it, like assembling pieces of a puzzle. Once finished, Ni generates an impression that seems to come out of “nowhere.” But the fact is that the intuition did not come out of nowhere, but from a synthesis of sensory data gathered from the immediate environment combined with information from the INJ’s own psyche.


Having tertiary Ni, Sherlock's isn't as pronounced, but it can still be seen in the canon. 

ISTP's can also be very cerebral. They are not all Bruce Lee and Clint Eastwood. The fact that he's a 5 makes him even more so.


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## jinhong91 (Apr 29, 2014)

tanstaafl28 said:


> He then organizes them according to a systematic framework of meaning and context. (Ne: Interpreting situations and relationships and pickup meanings and interconnections to other contexts)​
> He backs this up with a ready reference of information he's already worked out, such as: having analyzed the difference between over 200 different types of tobacco ash. (Si: Reviewing and recalling past experiences and seeking detailed data).​


Isn't the framework thing like Ti?

Also memory is not Si. How else does non-Si users learn?


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## ae1905 (Jun 7, 2014)

Noir said:


> First of all, we both agree he's using Ti, no problem here.
> 
> True, but your argument is very vague. I really do not seem him do that all that often. One could argue he's actually *using Ti to place everything together, breaking apart everything he sees then reconstructing the problem. *


That's what Ti in Ti-doms often does, tear down then build up, deductive then inductive.



> But the fundamental reasoning behind why I do not think he is a Ne user is this: Ne continuously adds information, seeking to enlarge the process and find a connection between all things. Sherlock Holmes does not do that, quite the contrary, he continuously narrows done things, focusing on the details that make things improbable.


Ti-Ne narrows down.



> Also, you say no Se?
> 
> What has been perhaps Sherlock's greatest characteristic is his ability to always scan and notice the very details of whatever case he was studying. He'd always notice the most insignificant of things.
> INTP's are usually highly unaware of their environment. I have a friend who is an INTP and often enough I pass by him without him ever noticing me. He has such a rich inner world that he almost ignores the outer one. That is not to say an INTP wouldn't be able to pay attention to the exterior world, but he'd certainly not notice the smallest of details.


This attention to details is the strongest argument in favor of ISTP. But because Holmes is a detective he will look for details no matter his type, and Si is also detail-focused.



> He always insists on having gathered data. Again, this indicates he prefers sensing to intuition.


Ne in Ti-Ne also insists on gathering data, especially when it is part of the job description--ie, investigator, _detect_ive.



> Referencing things has nothing to do with Si. Si compares feelings, sensations with the ones from the past. People with Si are also have highly developed motor skills and have quite a high dexterity. Backing things up with studies does in no way indicate Si.


Strictly speaking Si is subjective impressions of objective sensation, but this preference for subjective impressions imparts behavior traits to Si users such as a preference for established time-tested methods and knowledge.



> On Ni:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No, it's Ti. All the bolded words point to a rational judging process. "Reasoning backwards" here means starting with a fact and deducing the chain of events that lead up to it. The reasoning takes the form, "if this then that". So_ if_ you see a corpse with a bullet hole in its head, _then _that person must have been shot. This is rather obvious but you see the point. It's not Ni but Ti.


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## Tetsuo Shima (Nov 24, 2014)

Nothing introverted looks like anything because that's the side of you that you keep to yourself. But generally, people with a highly developed Ti are considered nerds but can be very successful like Einstein.


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

I sold engines to mechanic shops in a large metropolitan area. I know a LOT of ISTP's. Some dumb. Some brilliant. 

The brilliant ones do indeed want to know WHY, and they piece it all together. The not so brilliant ones just replace parts until it works.

WHY is N, and I'd argue Ni more than Ne. 

Sherlock might indeed be an ISTP. He might also be INTP. 

Mostly he is a fictional character. 

We are all nerds for even discussing it (smiles).


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## Juiz (Dec 31, 2014)

I would have to say. . . A long-ish face? Full of thought and structured (edges)? I think they stand out in their specific ways.


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## KraChZiMan (Mar 23, 2013)

drmiller100 said:


> This is written from an introvert's point of view. What would an extroverted Ti user look like?


Responding you late on this one (I don't visit PerC as often as I used to years ago) but I can't really see why this wouldn't apply to ENTP's/ESTP's either. I think the easiest examples of "own niche" can be brought from ExTP type representatives, such as Rammstein, which is very ESTP-esque music and approach to music (even checked an interview with these guys once to confirm that I have not mistyped). It goes without saying how Rammstein is very niche music and their themes are far from being common or mainstream, which is heavy correlation to Ti being creative function.

Another example, something for your own type, is videoblogger vSauce. He makes amazing videos about philosophy and science, explaining difficult stuff in simple examples. He is extremely popular on youtube, and I think youtube even officially promotes his channel there. Example of his works:






vSauce is obviously an ENTP. As you look more into his vids, you'll see how he has carved his own niche (unique running jokes, editing style, simple explanations, funny expressions etc. combined in harmony) which is second example of Ti as second function, which means that Ti offers a context for base function to strive and flourish, offers reasons, method and outlet, while base function (Ne/Se) provides the enthusiasm, energy and interpretation.

This is much different from IxTP's, who do not use Ti as outlet for creative energy, but rather use Ne/Se for this purpose. This means that Ti use of IxTP type is much more conservative, absolute, robust and black-or-white.


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## Noir (Jun 20, 2014)

ae1905 said:


> That's what Ti in Ti-doms often does, tear down then build up, deductive then inductive.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I still believe he is an ISTP because, yes any detective will pay close attention but he always seems to be able to quickly notice the smallest of details. He might not seek the adrenaline rushes of Se, but that is because of hia enneagram.
I agree Si is also detail oriented, but tertiary Si is a little too weak for Sherlock imo.


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## Word Dispenser (May 18, 2012)

Ultimately, 'highly developed functions', in my opinion, don't exist, really. It's like asking to see what it looks like to have highly developed vision. You can't develop your vision (With the exception of surgery), you can only focus it, and learn how to see the things you need to see.

In my opinion, that's how functions go as well. It may be healthier for us to allow ourselves to interact with our two strongest functions, but it's not like there's a button that we can press that will activate them. _

I_ think that it just happens automatically. Our life's traumas and victories tend to shape how we're seeing the world, and how we respond to things. All we can do is be conscious of our choices, and whether we are progressing in the way we want to, or being destructive.

If you want to be more intelligent, then read a book. If you want to get in touch with your feelings, talk with people. There are things we can control, and things we can't control. 

In terms of cognitive functions, I think of these as a way to understand why we look at the world, the people and things in it, the way we do, and thus become more conscious of our choices, and how to better our situations.

Learning that I'm an ENTP means that I'm weak in certain psychological ways, and strong in others. 

I can't necessarily control those psychological aspects, but I can be conscious of them, and how to put myself in situations where my psychological strengths will outweigh my weaknesses. 

I can interact with individuals, and understand their reactions to my strengths and weaknesses, explain them, and cooperate better as a result.

I can understand that I will always see the world in terms of 'greener grass', and thus force myself to look around and appreciate what I have, instead of lamenting what I do not.


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## ae1905 (Jun 7, 2014)

Noir said:


> I still believe he is an ISTP because, yes any detective will pay close attention but he always seems to be able to quickly notice the smallest of details. He might not seek the adrenaline rushes of Se, but that is because of hia enneagram.
> I agree Si is also detail oriented, but tertiary Si is a little too weak for Sherlock imo.


What do you mean by his enneagram? 

I read once that Se is like Ne and takes in the big picture, seeing many details at once and not focusing on any one in particular. In contrast, Si focuses on a few details that make a strong impression. This focus on a few details seems to better describe what Holmes does than the indiscriminate flood of details Se might take in. I'm not a strong Se user, though, so I don't know first-hand if this is true.


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## ruskiix (Sep 28, 2013)

cheapsunglasses said:


> Since it's an introverted function, I don't know how anyone can describe what Ti looks like, much less highly developed Ti. You can't see introverted functions in action, only the byproduct of it. I've read that those with high Ti tend to be able to summarize really well. I assumed that to mean that the person took the information and pared it down to its essence… and synthesizes it into something new. This is opposed to Te, where breaking a task down into steps, logically and in a systematic order is the result, as an example.
> 
> HTH



I would think Ti is visible as someone who can analyze something without relying on an exterior set of criteria. I think that's noticeable. With Fe it means logically analyzing things in the context of how they will affect other people. It's still an internal criteria, because how I value different Fe results is entirely internal and not based on external factors--so, I value what I perceive as an improvement in quality of life instead of statically measurable progress with social policies.


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## ruskiix (Sep 28, 2013)

Word Dispenser said:


> Ultimately, 'highly developed functions', in my opinion, don't exist, really. It's like asking to see what it looks like to have highly developed vision. You can't develop your vision (With the exception of surgery), you can only focus it, and learn how to see the things you need to see.
> 
> In my opinion, that's how functions go as well. It may be healthier for us to allow ourselves to interact with our two strongest functions, but it's not like there's a button that we can press that will activate them. _
> 
> ...


Think of it as well-integrated functions used in the healthiest way, instead of well-developed. I believe that's what everyone is referring to.

So, as an INFJ, I don't necessarily have to have Ni or Fe well-integrated or used in a healthy way just by virtue of being an INFJ. Or they can be reasonably integrated and healthy but not used as well as they could be. I could distrust my Ni, or react negatively to Fe because it makes me feel bad. I would think enneagram affects how your functions are weighted in spite of preference. An INFJ 1 might develop Ti to overpower Ni if they feel Ni is imperfect. While INFJ 4s strike me as sometimes letting Ni and Fe be influenced by how their perceptions make them feel--they twist weak Ti to come to conclusions that support how they emotionally react to something.

BUT my example is very clearly influenced by being a 1, so maybe it's too harsh. To me, an INFJ 4 like Marilyn Manson's intense dislike of religion goes back to it, though. Religion hurt him, so he lets his Ni and Ti stretch to see religion as entirely negative. While an INFJ 2 or 9 (or 1 with a strong wing) would be more likely to overlook how it hurt them and focus on how it helps other people, using Fe.



.. God I'm sorry. ENTP vague rambling with an INFJ even more vague response isn't very helpful here. I guess what I meant is, I would think very well developed functions are situations where a person has a very healthy use of one of their top functions, preferably with an enneagram type that encourages use of that function. So, 2s and 9s with Fe, 5s with Te or Ti, 4s with Fi, 6s or 8s with Se, etc.


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## Noir (Jun 20, 2014)

ae1905 said:


> What do you mean by his enneagram?
> 
> I read once that Se is like Ne and takes in the big picture, seeing many details at once and not focusing on any one in particular. In contrast, Si focuses on a few details that make a strong impression. This focus on a few details seems to better describe what Holmes does than the indiscriminate flood of details Se might take in. I'm not a strong Se user, though, so I don't know first-hand if this is true.


I believe his enneagram is type 5, with sp/sx variant. That makes him be much more cerebral and much less into the action usually associated with the ISTP stereotype. The people I've told Holmes is an ISTP usually argued that he didn't display any of the characteristics of this stereotype.


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## KraChZiMan (Mar 23, 2013)

Modal Soul said:


> this is his long way of saying "i am a joke, please don't take me seriously"


We are all rational people here, and offensive statements demand explanations. Your opinions are joke to me if you don't care to explain yourself.



Cesspool said:


> This is a bullshit assertion. Someone being an asshole does not make them worthless nor does it eliminate their opinions if their opinions are rational. The person's character does not affect the substance of their idea's, whether good or bad.
> 
> Stop thinking with Fi and start thinking with Ti. It's far better suited for rational analysis and logical deduction/induction.


People usually do not easily accept any viewpoints that come from condescending tone, unless they are coerced in some horrible way. Being asshole can never be justified, unless your favorite philosopher is Machiavelli and you believe in some twisted nazi bullshit.

The "I'm better than you" comparison, where you claim that one cognitive function is better than the other is utter bullshit, that serves no place in community where people are encouraged to be tolerant and speak their minds freely. I suggest you rephrase your point in some way that is not that condescending, before we discuss any further.



Old Intern said:


> Very interesting post - I've noticed (enjoyed) you putting fresh perspective on other posts too.
> But I think you confuse Ti, with Ti's back-up tool kit Fe on this one.
> 
> If someone tells me somebody else has a particular opinion of me, (which seems incongruous with my own knowledge and life experience), my inclination is to suspect some relationship management might be in order. Someone calling me stupid to my face or behind my back, is likely not to mean squat about my intelligence either way. It means a misunderstanding somewhere, and someone caring enough to talk about me behind my back could be emotionally motivated enough to make trouble for me somehow in the real world. Another angle to this may be whatever the misunderstanding, I'm curious that it could be something simple to handle and avoid unnecessary problem of whatever kind.
> ...


Thank you, indeed it seems like a healthy thought process here 

It is true that some prejudiced people are just poorly informed or misunderstanding something, and in that case, some explaining or communication can make all the difference. Then there is a distinct majority of people who just believe that manipulation and putting others down is a legit way to achieve success and make themselves look better. I've met both kinds of people. Second kind of people frequently call out for a open fight, or at least imply an open confrontation, and when they lose one, they leave you alone. But most of the time, it's not worth it, and it's better to ignore them, for they are useless bottomfeeders anyway.


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## ruskiix (Sep 28, 2013)

Modal Soul said:


> this is his long way of saying "i am a joke, please don't take me seriously"


I initially agreed with you but after the last post .. It would be ideal if you would explain why you think it's a joke.

The person you responded to seemed to be suggesting that well-developed Ti is when Ti is balanced by other functions enough to avoid bias. It was only an opinion about what highly developed Ti looks like which was the original point of this thread. Nothing in it was inherently false--by intelligent people, he meant people with strong use of their other top three functions. In that sense, I agree with him completely.


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## Cesspool (Aug 8, 2014)

You're right, I shouldn't have been a dick.


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## Modal Soul (Jun 16, 2013)

KraChZiMan said:


> We are all rational people here, and offensive statements demand explanations. Your opinions are joke to me if you don't care to explain yourself.


i didn't even read the post i replied to so it is probably best if you don't take it seriously


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

KraChZiMan said:


> . But most of the time, it's not worth it, and it's better to ignore them, for they are useless bottomfeeders anyway.



as an ENTP 8, I enjoy confrontation.

if someone wants to puff and strut who am I to deny them the opportunity to stick their peckers in a trap?

yes, if i were more mature I wouldn't stoop, but everyone needs a hobby......
(Grins!)


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## Zee Bee (Aug 19, 2014)

BlackLion said:


> Thoughts and knowledge shall be shared in this thread.:ninja:


As-if-they have been soaking in vinegar for 36 hours?!


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## Old Intern (Nov 20, 2012)

KraChZiMan said:


> We are all rational people here, and offensive statements demand explanations. Your opinions are joke to me if you don't care to explain yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well, Identifying misunderstanders as prejudiced and poorly informed would require a type of good/bad evaluative thinking that isn't natural to Ti. This is where it may be hard for me to know what the Ti-Se variant would be, but experience, as well as possibility thinking *can* tell you many reasons do exist for misunderstanding that have nothing to do with fault or blame.

This inclination for impersonal analysis, cause and effect, not blame, not should or shouldn't, is definitive of Ti.
The desire to consider a part to be played to discover or mend the potential problem would be Fe. Or it could be Ti if someones opinion of you is somehow pivotal to physical or strategic well-being. Otherwise your evaluation of me is whatever that might be in your own head and you can think what you like. This is different than Fi saying "this is your problem" meaning defect in the misunderstander.


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## Bash (Nov 19, 2014)

TwinAnthos said:


> I think this is a very good description of a Ti dom (ISTP in this case) going from undeveloped to very developed Ti.
> 
> Altaïr was raised at the Assassin fortress at Masyaf and possessed incredible skills, quickly rising through the ranks of the Order. Even in his early life as an Assassin, he was one of the most respected and feared in the Brotherhood, second only to its leader, Al Mualim. A cold and objective person, Altaïr fully devoted himself to whatever cause he chose to pursue. He also had a rebellious nature, and was often impetuous, demanding, arrogant, and impatient. However, after failing at Solomon's Temple and commencing the hunt for the nine, Altaïr began listening to the final words of his targets and pondering their justifications for their deeds.[3]
> 
> As his mission progressed, his attitude changed, and he began to observe connections between his targets while drawing more effectively on the teachings of the Order. Eventually, he became a calm, driven and wise man, although he still occasionally let anger get the best of him.[3]


This is a rather good description of him developing Ni and Fe.


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## KraChZiMan (Mar 23, 2013)

Old Intern said:


> Well, Identifying misunderstanders as prejudiced and poorly informed would require a type of good/bad evaluative thinking that isn't natural to Ti. This is where it may be hard for me to know what the Ti-Se variant would be, but experience, as well as possibility thinking *can* tell you many reasons do exist for misunderstanding that have nothing to do with fault or blame.
> 
> This inclination for impersonal analysis, cause and effect, not blame, not should or shouldn't, is definitive of Ti.
> The desire to consider a part to be played to discover or mend the potential problem would be Fe. Or it could be Ti if someones opinion of you is somehow pivotal to physical or strategic well-being. Otherwise your evaluation of me is whatever that might be in your own head and you can think what you like. This is different than Fi saying "this is your problem" meaning defect in the misunderstander.



Actually, labeling some specific judgement or criticism as "somebody's own problem" demands that I have considered the fact that I am to blame at first. Not doing so is childish and irresponsible.

I read your post several times to understand what you were trying to say, and I understood the main point was that the blame factor has no place in Ti-thought process. That's kind of interesting actually. It could explain why Ti-types feel assaulted every time I say something like "but it's little bit your fault too". 

Actually, I have to control my behavior a lot when around Ti-types, because I find that very many things that I just casually like to mention sometimes can really irritate Ti-types or make them confrontational, sarcastic or critical towards me in some way. For example, there was this INTP-ish illustration teacher, who saw my schoolwork and had this long rant about how it's very sloppy and not very much effort. He asked:

teacher: do you do any art at home?
me: yeah
teacher: what do you like to do?
me: I like to draw people
teacher: oh yeah? really? I want to see those drawn people of yours. Show me next time or you won't pass the evalutation.
(I brought them with me next time and he went throught the drawings)
teacher: You seem to put effort in drawings you make at home... why don't you put any effort to drawings you make in my classes then? really disappointing...

I found it very hard to explain him the idea that when it's the topic or theme I personally like, I just put more effort in. His viewpoint was impersonal, analytical. Basically, his response was "if you want to develop as an artist, you have to force yourself to put more effort in", which was understandable, but difficult to practice. I actually agree with the teacher, and I would like to drop this attachment to different subjects, be more objective etc. but no matter how hard I try, it doesn't really reflect in my art.

Basically, tried to explain a little conflict I had with Ti-approach from my art school example 



drmiller100 said:


> as an ENTP 8, I enjoy confrontation.
> 
> if someone wants to puff and strut who am I to deny them the opportunity to stick their peckers in a trap?
> 
> ...


Somebody should make this into the motto of all ENTP's, lol. Your whole post. Really ENTP'ish thing to say :laughing:


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## Old Intern (Nov 20, 2012)

KraChZiMan said:


> Actually, labeling some specific judgement or criticism as "somebody's own problem" demands that I have considered the fact that I am to blame at first. Not doing so is childish and irresponsible.
> 
> I read your post several times to understand what you were trying to say, and I understood the main point was that the blame factor has no place in Ti-thought process. That's kind of interesting actually. It could explain why Ti-types feel assaulted every time I say something like "but it's little bit your fault too".
> 
> ...


BLAME is Fi, Ti is impersonal. I'm not telling you you are being a good doobie or not. You seem to have a pleasent enough attitude as a nice guy. But you process from a different perspective. For People on an Fi/Te axis (for lack of a better word) It seems like a whole different approach from Ti/Fe. I see it when I read different authors, like it jumps off the page. 

Ti, just manages a situation, or develops theories, and policies. So the idea of managing a reputation is just that, something that matters or it doesn't. As an incident, it has no relation to who I am or believe that I am.

As for your art teacher, we have all had teachers that clash with our style. I guess you have to decide what you need from the class. There is something to be said for passion in art and something to be said for exercising practice and discipline too.

If I have trouble with Fi's it would be how I have to explain carefully that a question is a question or an observation is just an observation, not an attack - neutral. Ti's don't operate from absolutes unless defined with facts of a certain context. Everything is neutral because the focus is cause or effect within a certain context,* learning and doing like a puzzle*. I don't know your friends. I would suspect from a Ti perspective that they get irritated at what could seem like defensive posturing - instead of analyzing in an impersonal manner. If your tone of voice is condescending that would piss me off for example. If Ti sounds snotty, it is more likely a type of impatience or frustration, about a task at hand or to have meanings understood. It won't be evaluation of persons involved - unless maybe extreme repeated problems.


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