# Is tritype theory really necessary?



## aurly (Jun 15, 2014)

drmiller100 said:


> Well hell.
> 
> hard to argue with that.


Not at all. Allow me.



Tetsuo Shima said:


> It's necessary because I'm not like most type 4 INFPs. I'm also like an 8 because I'm very ambitious and vengeful and I'm like a 5 because my favorite thing to have complemented is my intelligence.


Being ambitious and especially being vengeful, are very much core type 4 traits. And to like being complimented on your intelligence, has nothing to do with being like a 5. Everyone likes that. So there you go, this tritype stuff has messed up your perception of the types.

Side note, if you're not like most 4s, and you are actually a 4, is probably because most 4s on perc aren't 4s. I think they got tritype'd


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## Lord Bullingdon (Aug 9, 2014)

charlie.elliot said:


> I just find it a little far-fetched. I mean, if you've assigned yourself a tritype, with wings as well, that means you're purporting to have some connection to as many as 6 of the 9 types, plus your integration/disintegration point (and if they're different, you've basically covered the whole enneagram). And how do you differentiate between having a type in your tritype, and having it as a integration/disintegration point? Either way, you would have a connection to them.


Here are my thoughts.

I don't find it far fetched_ per se_. The idea is that we have different centers of intelligence--head heart and gut. And each one has its own pattern. I don't find that any more far fetched than the enneagram is to begin with (only NINE sorts of people??) with a head, heart, and gut center.



> I mean, in your opinion, is tritype theory REALLY legit? Have you seen it in action? Does it really mean something to you?


Yes, it's as legit to me as anything else in personality theory. I actually do see it in action with me, particularly with my heart-fix. I've elaborated on how in different places, let me know if you want a repeat.



> And aside from whether or not it's legit, is it helpful or necessary? I mean, you already have enough work to do on yourself, just working with the issues in your OWN type. Plus your wing-type issues. And keeping in mind your integration/disintegration points. That's four types already that you can think about. What's the point in adding in more? Unless you just want to label yourself more, which is not at all the point of the enneagram (quite the opposite actually).


That's a fair point. I have found it helpful in understanding why my core type sometimes presents as it does--I'm not exactly typical in many ways. I really do use other strategies in place of my core type. Yes, figuring out what underlies this is more important and is the only real way to solve my issues. But knowing there was a logical reason (i.e., tritype) for what I do things the way I do, actually helped me to see my core more clearly. It also helped me to accept it.



> Plus, your MBTI type is playing a role, so if you're like "Hey i'm a 945, which is way different than a 978", that may be just because you're an INFJ or INTJ and not an ESTP.


Yeah, that's another good point. I assumed for a really long time I was 6-fixed because "I couldn't figure out my type" and some superficial similarities (eg, devil's advocate). I realized a lot of what I noticed had to do with being an ENTP...though I still entertain 6 as my head center from time to time. Mind you, there are times when I can't tell cognitive functions from instincts, too, so I don't think there's any precise answer here. I can safely say, though, that I feel way different from some people also typing as ENTP 8s, and maybe tritype does play a role there.


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## Tetsuo Shima (Nov 24, 2014)

aurly said:


> Not at all. Allow me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Or I'm a lot more talkative than most 4 INFPs because most 4 INFPs re 4w5s and I'm a 4w3.


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## charlie.elliot (Jan 22, 2014)

@Tetsuo Shima- a lot of Type 4 are very talkative though


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## Tetsuo Shima (Nov 24, 2014)

charlie.elliot said:


> @Tetsuo Shima- a lot of Type 4 are very talkative though


But usually, 4w3s are more talkative than 4w5s.


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## periwinklepromise (Jan 26, 2015)

Something I've been thinking about - I tend to use process of elimination in anything I can. When I came to the Enneagram, and I began to understand the core motivations of each type, I ditched the ones I didn't relate to at all (like types 4 and 9, for example). I did not do this by center, but could trityping be a way of figuring out your core type by eliminating types in each center that are distinctly not like you?


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## Ausserirdische (May 2, 2015)

I like tritypes because it makes typing more accurate - while on MBTI you just have 16 types, on enneagram you have 9 types, wings, tritypes and instincts, so people are going to have a better idea of you knowing them then your MBTI.


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## Angelic Gardevoir (Oct 7, 2010)

Is _any_ of this really necessary? Many people develop themselves without personality theories. 

In all seriousness, I do like the idea of tritype. It makes intuitive sense to me that all three centers influence us and the way we handle the issues of each center combine to create a distinct personality. It doesn't diminish the importance of the core in my opinion. Rather, the other two types are just sort of in the background. But I can see why people wouldn't like the complexity of it, since it can be very difficult to trace where issues come from (i.e. Is that my core, wing, fix, or disintegration/integration point?) and it can lead to stereotyping too much. 

This is coming from a total beginner who probably really sucks at this and shouldn't be digging into tritype anyway, but oh well. XD


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

charlie.elliot said:


> I mean, in your opinion, is tritype theory REALLY legit? Have you seen it in action? Does it really mean something to you?


I think tritype can be used in order to create very rough archetypal classifications of people e.g. 458s are such and such in ways you cannot with just core + wing + instincts. Essentially it explains why two people with exactly the same core and wings and instincts are still different. I do see some legitimacy in the secondary fix. Third fix seems so far away it's like whatever. 



> And aside from whether or not it's legit, is it helpful or necessary?


Legit, yes, insofar that the claim is that we all have the nine types within us and tritype organizes the strength in which they manifest in a hierarchy with the strongest manifestation from each center of intelligence being the noteworthy ones. The problem I see with this kind of logic is that well, why only one type from each center of intelligence? Isn't that kind of arbitrary? If I see 3 and 4 as very strong motivators in myself, why can't I have a tritype of 134 instead of 137? 

The Fauvres also wrote that they thought you always move in one particular direction with regards to your tritype, meaning that you always use your core first in order to deal with problems, and if that doesn't work you move to your secondary fix and when that doesn't work you use your last fix. 



> I mean, you already have enough work to do on yourself, just working with the issues in your OWN type. Plus your wing-type issues. And keeping in mind your integration/disintegration points. That's four types already that you can think about. What's the point in adding in more?


To distinguish even further between people who share the same core motivations, pretty much. 



> Plus, your MBTI type is playing a role, so if you're like "Hey i'm a 945, which is way different than a 978", that may be just because you're an INFJ or INTJ and not an ESTP.


Agreed though, in that it easily conflates with other models to explain disparities in personality.


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## cir (Oct 4, 2013)

charlie.elliot said:


> I just find it a little far-fetched.


 You don't believe in the goal of the enneagram. For self-development?


Riso/Hudson said:


> No matter what type you are, you have all nine types in you, to some degree. *To explore them all and see them all operating in you is to see the full spectrum of human nature.* This awareness will give you far more understanding of and compassion for others, because you will recognize many aspects of their particular habits and reactions in your-self. It is much more difficult to condemn the aggressiveness of Eights or the disguised neediness of Twos, for instance, if we are aware of aggressiveness and neediness in ourselves. *If you investigate all nine types in yourself, you will see how interdependent they are - just as the Enneagram symbol represents them.*


[HR][/HR]


> I mean, if you've assigned yourself a tritype, with wings as well, that means you're purporting to have some connection to as many as 6 of the 9 types, plus your integration/disintegration point (and if they're different, you've basically covered the whole enneagram).


 Is it too far-fetched that someone could have "as many as" six of the nine types when everyone has all nine types? Is it that far-fetched that a billionaire has a million dollars?

From my base type ALONE, I can claim access to five points (8, 2, 5, 7, 9). What if we give me the benefit of the doubt and assume I can access 1 via the 7 wing? Since, you know, "7 integrates to 5" and I've already counted those?

So the total is (8, 2, 5, 7, 9) + (1) => 6 types. From _just_ my base type + dominant wing's disintegration point. When the goal is to have access to all nine types, and tritype theory can help me identify up to two more points that I have ready access to, that leaves me with one point left. 

And someone who thinks Holy Love says "All is One", by the mathematical properties of what it means to be "whole", if you have eight points developed, *you'll get the last point as a freebie*. I promise. If you have eight points developed, then you meet all of the criteria for "integration". There is nothing preventing you from integrating that last point.

If point nine is the last point to develop (meaning someone has points 1-8 developed), then they already have access to point nine. Point nine is the reconciliation force that allowed them to integrate the previous eight points anyway, and since "all nine types are a variation of type nine", then point nine is going to be a freebie.

If point nine is *not* the last point to develop, then being in touch with type nine's basic desire to become whole (which is like a synonym for the word "integrate") would allow one to get that last point. (Type nine's basic fears are also essentially synonyms to "disintegrate".)



> And how do you *differentiate* between having a type in your tritype, and having it as a *integration/disintegration* point? Either way, you would have a connection to them.


 That's unnecessary. "Differentiation" is the mathematical "opposite" to "integration". You know what else is an opposite to "integration"? "Disintegration". If you're trying to differentiate the same whole unit to imply that they're different, then you're looking at it from a dis-integrative sense.

Overlapping points mean you have an easier access to those points. As an 8w7, when I go 8->5, *that's going to be the same point 5* I access from the 7 wing. You know, "interdependent". From _just_ my base type + dominant wing, I have a full connection to point 5. Since my head fix is 7w8, that means that my command of the 7-5-8 loop is reinforced.



> Personally, if I go around the enneagram, I can find some connection to each of the types. There's some aspect of each of the types that I read and go "hey, that sounds like me!" So, to me, its kind of silly to pick out a tritype when really you probably have a connection to _all_ the types.


 Then why did you find it ridiculous that people suggest they have access to as many as 6 out of 9 types? Because that's too many or too few?



> I mean, in your opinion, is tritype theory REALLY legit? Have you seen it in action? Does it really mean something to you?


 Every. single. enneagram. test I have ever taken ranked my top three types as 873 or 837. My expanded tritype is 8w7, 7w8, and 3w4, and so I have no way or reason to be anything but a walking confirmation bias.

Yes, I have seen it in action. I have access to all nine of my inner points, and while my access to those other points don't quite match up to native operators of those types, I have enough access to them to get me through pretty much any possible situation or difficulty. 

On the bright side, I like to give inspiration (embodying Holy Hope) to threes who want to be eights. This dynamic is hilarious(ly adorable), and "since all nine types are a variation of type nine", it's not impossible, just really difficult. If only there's a way to get rid of "mimicking" or "imitating" from their mindset ("if only they didn't have their core fix"), they could become the real thing (for a limited period of time, as long as they're willing to alienate everyone)!



> And aside from whether or not it's legit, is it helpful or necessary?


 What about "fun"? It's a fun, interesting, entertaining, and possibly harmless idea.

You want to talk about luxury? Reworking the inner lines of the enneagram.










"'Evolution comes from necessity. Increase, then, your necessity!' The relation 2-8-5 arises out of a sense of need." Yes. To me, it is necessary.



> I mean, you already have enough work to do on yourself, just working with the issues in your OWN type. Plus your wing-type issues. And keeping in mind your integration/disintegration points. That's four types already that you can think about. *What's the point in adding in more?* Unless you just want to label yourself more, which is not at all the point of the enneagram (quite the opposite actually).


 As someone with a fixation to Holy Work (which is that one type seven Holy Idea that Almaas says is a variation of type three's Holy Law), I think "work on myself" is enjoyable and rewarding. I'm intrinsically motivated to work on myself (as any self-respecting, self-absorbed, selfish eight ought to be) which has lead to a lot of good things happening in my life, and therefore I'm happier.

I have a nine wing. It's so powerful that my dominant basic desire these days is to become whole. To have all nine points AND dis/integration lines would lead to be becoming whole. Or because "lack of development" imply "weakness"? Or because "vice:lust" transformed into a kind of Holy Love still implies an expansive kind of love. Or because having the defensive strategies/strengths of all nine types means more ways of understanding people and more choices to pick from, which is what one of the intended meaning behind "freedom from fixation". 

"Real" integration means doors open and options that were previously unavailable to you are now accessible. As an example, I'm so-last and would anyone believe that every single job I've ever gotten is through my social network? Integration also requires you to have decent command over your "instincts", including the one in your blind spot, which is kind of funny coming from an "instinctive" "id" type.

What's the point of "basic desire: wholeness" to you? The answer to this is also the same answer to the question "why do you care?"


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## Vermillion (Jan 22, 2012)

Nah. Knowing my core and instinctual stacking has been enough for me, but people always need to create models within models to explain away how special and different they are, I guess, which is probably how tritype arose. Not sure what basis it has, if any.


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## charlie.elliot (Jan 22, 2014)

Amaterasu said:


> Nah. Knowing my core and instinctual stacking has been enough for me, but people always need to create models within models to explain away how special and different they are, I guess, which is probably how tritype arose. Not sure what basis it has, if any.


My thoughts exactly....
@cir, I'm totally up for feeling or "having access" to all the types of the enneagram. To me, that's a very intricate and beautiful idea, and I think of the enneagram as a wheel with inner energy flows (both along the outside of the circle, and along the inner lines). All of human personality is a continuum (around the circle) with the inner dynamics as well. Its like a living organism. 

BUT, the part I think is silly is the whole extra label you're putting on... basically, I think you start a one point (your main type+wing), and you're going to work with the dynamics of the enneagram... which works in a pattern. you don't just randomly jump to another type (which tritype theory almost suggests). Plus your MBTI is going to add some random variation to the mix. Tritypes seem to try to pin down personality TOO precisely; it seems almost as if they result from overestimating the precision of typology. "Oh, I'm not _exactly _like a nine, so I must have the influence of 3 and 5 as well..." Well, of course, no one is _exactly_like any type. People exist in infinite diversity and variation, even among the same type. 

But, I mean, if your tritype 837 is meaningful to you, I can't argue with that, obviously.


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## cir (Oct 4, 2013)

charlie.elliot said:


> My thoughts exactly....
> @_cir_, I'm totally up for feeling or "having access" to all the types of the enneagram. To me, that's a very intricate and beautiful idea, and I think of the enneagram as a wheel with inner energy flows (both along the outside of the circle, and along the inner lines). All of human personality is a continuum (around the circle) with the inner dynamics as well. Its like a living organism.


 Sure! I find agreement in this.



> BUT, the part I think is silly is the whole extra label you're putting on... basically, I think you start a one point (your main type+wing), and you're going to work with the dynamics of the enneagram... which works in a pattern.


 Ok. One of the reasons people like tritypes is because each number corresponds to a center. Body + Heart + Head => Whole. People think those labels (which, from what I can discern from your tone, you think of this as a "bad" thing) better capture who they are as whole individuals, instead of everyone being merely mysterious manifestations of one of nine types, and such labeling would functionally allow others to figure out how in which way relating to them is possible. At least with tritype labels, there's a finite set of them (as opposed to usernames in this forum, where people change usernames all the time. This is what the friend's list is for!), and being grouped under the same "label" would make it easier for people to identify others who are suspiciously specifically similar to them.

I don't see a reason to be so distasteful of it. If it doesn't work for you, then you're free to pursue the traditional labels however you best relate to. I mean, I completely agree that core type is the *most* important type (and from this extreme, I think that your +wing is extraneous, but probably because my wing is also a mirrored fix), and people can't really work on their tritypes until they've worked out their core type...



> you don't just randomly jump to another type (which tritype theory almost suggests).


 From @Entropic's post:


> The Fauvres also wrote that they thought you always move in one particular direction with regards to your tritype, meaning that *you always use your core first in order to deal with problems, and if that doesn't work you move to your secondary fix and when that doesn't work you use your last fix.*


That actually doesn't seem that random to me, sorry. The other fixes are like, "in a different center from your core type, without influence of your core type, which center is easiest for you to access?" Because the point is you cycle through each center.



> Plus your MBTI is going to add some random variation to the mix.


 But since that's a different system, that's irrelevant. I could just as easily say that an individual's societal culture would add some bias to the mix too. "Type three bias if you're from the USA", "Type one bias if you're from UK", "Type nine bias if you're from China", etc.


> Tritypes seem to try to pin down personality TOO precisely; it seems almost as if they result from overestimating the precision of typology.


 I'm sorry, I have a nine wing. Since I'm not a core nine, I can't genuinely relate to the fear of precision, which is interesting since point three is about competency.


> "Oh, I'm not _exactly _like a nine, so I must have the influence of 3 and 5 as well..." Well, of course, no one is _exactly_like any type. People exist in infinite diversity and variation, even among the same type.


 Yeah. That's why people like tritypes. They feel like it offers just the right amount of resolution or balance between "who they are as individuals" and "in what systematic, populous group can they be counted in".



> But, I mean, if your tritype 837 is meaningful to you, I can't argue with that, obviously.


 You want to know what makes my tritype crazy? Someone wrote a series of articles on combined perspectives, and this was the attached graphic:









@Kintsugi @sharlzkidarlz


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## Golden Rose (Jun 5, 2014)

I like tritype theory because it explains a lot and it's fun to play with and deconstruct.

You have a core and it represents you well, yet not completely. There's things about other people who share that core with you that don't add up so you take wing into factor, much better! But it still doesn't paint the whole picture. You add your main instincts, things keep making more and more sense but it's not quite it yet so you consider your MBTI type, that's quite close! But not enough, you need to mess up with the system even more!

Adding a type from each center explains why your core manifests differently than others who share it.
Basically, it's a big picture disintegrating into a lot of fragments that make a lot of sense.
So you get: MBTI + core + wing + fixes + their wings + instincts.

That's as accurate as it gets!
I'm not exactly sober but tritype helps filling in the blanks.


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## charlie.elliot (Jan 22, 2014)

:crazy::crazy:UPDATE :crazy: :crazy:
(that was just to get your attention)

I wanted to put out there that I've kind of changed my views on tritype theory. I now think it's semi-legit and even somewhat helpful. 

I always knew that if I DID have a tritype, it would 9w1 7w6 and ?w?. What I've found, especially after having worked on 9 issues and 1 issues for YEARS, is that I am to some extent _also_ a 7w6, with a Sexual instinct. I didn't expect to this to be true, but I've found that it is. I then had to think "oh... sounds like tritype theory.... :laughing:" (since I've always been pretty against it).

Furthermore, it seems like your 3 tritypes could also correspond to your three instincts. I.e. I'm a social nine/ sexual seven/ self pres ??, since I'm so/sx/sp. 
I can then say I'm "social in the body center, sexual in the mind center, and self pres in the image center." that's kinda cool.

But anyway, I don't think you can determine your tritype just by taking a test and counting the 3 highest scores in each triad. The test simply isnt that precise (maybe if it were 4x longer it would be). You'd have to really dig deep inside yourself before you knew. Well, i kind of suspected I had 7 in me for a while, but now I've actually found it.
Still no clue what my image fix would be... maybe i'll find it someday!


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