# Stop offering D*ck!!!!



## Kyandigaru (Mar 11, 2012)

i just have to scream this shit. i am tired of men only offering me their penises and can't offer relationship. true dating comes first, but i have witnessed more dicks than hearts. Now i dont do casual sex and i have been offered dick like other women. Why cant men just get to know a woman first? 

i was talking to an irish man, italian man and now a jewish man and both just only seem to offer dicks. race dont have anything to do with it, but goddamn! it has been stuck in my head that i have to lose weight in order to date the commitment man...and i know good and well skinny girls, thick girls all get offered dick only. so it cant be a fat chick thing....

*sorry i just have to say this! are any of you ever tired of something that gets in the way of commitment?*


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## Ace Face (Nov 13, 2011)

Fellow fatty speaking  There are good men out there who don't just "offer dick." They just happen to be incredibly tough to find. You tend to find what you're looking for when you're not looking for it... keep that in mind, chica <3


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## MisterD (Feb 24, 2010)

Kyandigaru said:


> i just have to scream this shit. i am tired of men only offering me their penises and can't offer relationship. true dating comes first, but i have witnessed more dicks than hearts. Now i dont do casual sex and i have been offered dick like other women. Why cant men just get to know a woman first?
> 
> i was talking to an irish man, italian man and now a jewish man and both just only seem to offer dicks. race dont have anything to do with it, but goddamn! it has been stuck in my head that i have to lose weight in order to date the commitment man...and i know good and well skinny girls, thick girls all get offered dick only. so it cant be a fat chick thing....
> 
> *sorry i just have to say this! are any of you ever tired of something that gets in the way of commitment?*


I'd hate to be a woman. I don't know how i'd handle keeping a guy hooked & not giving them sex too easily at the same time.


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## Kyandigaru (Mar 11, 2012)

Ace Face said:


> Fellow fatty speaking  There are good men out there who don't just "offer dick." They just happen to be incredibly tough to find. You tend to find what you're looking for when you're not looking for it... keep that in mind, chica <3


Thanks. i do believe this advice even though i met my ex when i wasnt looking and it was a better relationship than the other one. i guess it didnt work because of other factors such as; family, friends and his lack of common sense.
@MisterD
yes its hard to be a woman, but its harder being one looking for commitment. i always get the men are horny excuse, but i know there is some sane guy looking for a real woman and not some bullshit.


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## devoid (Jan 3, 2011)

It's probably just the way you're meeting them. If you look for dates in bars, clubs, parties or online, that's probably what you'll get. Try being friends with a person first if that's what you want from a relationship. I always try to get to know a person before flirting with them, and therefore people don't offer me casual sex much. They know I'm a serious kind of person. Actually, I had some issues at one point when I was looking for casual sex, but because I needed to know the person a bit first they all ended up wanting a relationship... Anyway, you reap what you sew.


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## HellCat (Jan 17, 2013)

You guys really should talk nicer about yourselves for starters. 


Would much rather have a best friend I can talk to without any goddamned worries. 

I always warn them.. be my friend before you objectify me or fuck off.


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## Kyandigaru (Mar 11, 2012)

devoid said:


> It's probably just the way you're meeting them. If you look for dates in bars, clubs, parties or online, that's probably what you'll get. Try being friends with a person first if that's what you want from a relationship. I always try to get to know a person before flirting with them, and therefore people don't offer me casual sex much. They know I'm a serious kind of person. Actually, I had some issues at one point when I was looking for casual sex, but because I needed to know the person a bit first they all ended up wanting a relationship... Anyway, you reap what you sew.



gurrl! me at a club or party? puhlease! lol i dont do clubs and i will admit i have an online profile. i'm taking a break from it because using this as an only way to meet people tool, is hazardous. 

so you mean to tell me, there are no non-sexual men online?


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## Kyandigaru (Mar 11, 2012)

LeoCat said:


> You guys really should talk nicer about yourselves for starters. Yes I get very tired of men just wanting to stare at me and never have a real conversation past the interrogation process. Its like being typecast in real life. I still get emails in my trash folder from someone I dumped months ago. Praising my body and begging for a chance. I told him this summer, you had 8 months to befriend me as a person and you treat me like an exotic pet, no thanks.
> 
> Would much rather have a best friend I can talk to without any goddamned worries.
> 
> I always warn them.. be my friend before you objectify me or fuck off.


yes this all....of this!!! most, can't be a friend for shit! i'm not talking all men, but out of 20 that talk to me 17 only want pussy and the other three are weird asses... lol


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## marked174 (Feb 24, 2010)

I'm not trying to sound like an ass, but honestly, why should a man want to have a relationship with you? What are you offering him? If you're not offering him anything, it shouldn't be surprising to find a lack of effort. Explore your strengths and present them in your dealings with guys.


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## The Proof (Aug 5, 2009)

Well you have some muslim quotes in your sig, why don't you meet men in some muslim organizations? There have to be some, I know catholics are really fond of their youth organizations (perhaps for the wrong reason, ahem)


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## devoid (Jan 3, 2011)

Kyandigaru said:


> gurrl! me at a club or party? puhlease! lol i dont do clubs and i will admit i have an online profile. i'm taking a break from it because using this as an only way to meet people tool, is hazardous.
> 
> so you mean to tell me, there are no non-sexual men online?


I've done the online dating thing before, and truthfully, almost nobody is there who isn't desperately horny. There are a few guys who are looking for true love, but they're usually weirdos. I'm guessing you're looking for a long-term relationship where you get to know the person before having sex? Really, the best way to have a relationship like that is to be friends before you're a couple. When you label something as "dating" it creates expectations - going on dates, kissing, sex, intimacy, etc. Rather than saying "I'm looking for someone to date" try saying "I'm looking for someone to have good conversations with." I did actually have a couple dates from a dating website that were lovely and did not involve sex, because I told people I was only looking for conversation. It's all about how you market yourself.

Don't be afraid to be extremely picky and stubborn about what you want. If 20 guys say they just want sex (on a hook-up site, let's be fair, it's not their fault) then have the confidence to just say no. I was approached on a dating site by 5 different married couples looking for a third person for sex. I ended up having some great conversations online with two of them, but had to say no to the request. It's okay if people want to have sex with you and you don't want to have sex with them. It doesn't mean that they are belittling you or think you're a certain "type of girl." It just means that they want sex and they think you're pretty. Make a very specific profile, look for a certain type of person (remember to be active in your search, not just wait for guys to come to you) and tell people what you're looking for straight-up. But the best way to build a solid relationship is always with a solid friendship. I recommend spending some of the time you would be using online to go out and volunteer in your community, local church or school. The more you get involved in activities you love, the more you will meet other people who share your interests.


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## HellCat (Jan 17, 2013)

Kyandigaru said:


> yes this all....of this!!! most, can't be a friend for shit! i'm not talking all men, but out of 20 that talk to me 17 only want pussy and the other three are weird asses... lol


Hes right about exploring your strengths. You make it sound like its beyond your control. You always have control. Do you have any hobbies or sports/ You slurred yourself with an overweight description.. why not take up a martial art? Then you can kick someones ass who grabs you and you will be in shape and proud of your body and see the stamina and strength you are capable of exploring. Soon you will be so in love with yourself, the douchebags who want to stare at you won't matter and you will recognize that dullwitted stare and drop them before you even see them long enough to form a friendship.


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## XO Skeleton (Jan 18, 2011)

The level of man that you get is a reflection of yourself because the common denominator in these scenarios is you. Either you are only attracting these kind of men or these are the only kind of men that you notice. The places where you meet men are very important too.

Sent from my SCH-R720 using Tapatalk 2


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## Kyandigaru (Mar 11, 2012)

marked174 said:


> I'm not trying to sound like an ass, but honestly, why should a man want to have a relationship with you? What are you offering him? If you're not offering him anything, it shouldn't be surprising to find a lack of effort. Explore your strengths and present them in your dealings with guys.


I'm....
-supportive
-nice
-sweet
-loyal
-honest
-emotionally stable
-dont want his money
-respectful
-caring
-spiritual
-love to cook
-easy to please
-smart
-considerate
-faithful
-full of common sense
-offering great friendship
and
-strong willed. 

you mean to tell me this isn't enough for a good man to say "wait a minute! i want to keep you not use you for sex." ?
@The Proof 
i haven't converted yet, and this may be the end all be all here.


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## HellCat (Jan 17, 2013)

Kyandigaru said:


> I'm....
> -supportive
> -nice
> -sweet
> ...


Looks like a decent list to me. If you ever want a cheerleader to help you with your goals pm me.


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## Kyandigaru (Mar 11, 2012)

LeoCat said:


> Looks like a decent list to me. If you ever want a cheerleader to help you with your goals pm me.


ha. thanks no problem! I made myself look like a pity.


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## Diphenhydramine (Apr 9, 2010)

Don't be tsundere. Men are dumb. They can build rockets to the moon but cannot understand women. You must offer what you have straight up as a simulacrum of your total character. Don't have good bits of your personality hidden away for people to 'discover.' This is a way you can leverage any image issues you have.


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## PowerShell (Feb 3, 2013)

If you are using online dating, expect that stuff. Either the guys are literally just looking for a hookup or they're trolling you because they read your profile or saw your picture and don't think you're relationship material but maybe can get a quick screw in the mean time or are just looking to troll you. When the site is free, it sets a very low barrier to the lowest common denominator of society.


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## carlaviii (Jul 25, 2012)

MisterD said:


> I don't know how i'd handle keeping a guy hooked & not giving them sex too easily at the same time.


This antiquated idea, again?  Why would I want to "keep" somebody if he didn't _want_ to be with me? Sex is not currency, a controlled substance, or a doggy treat to only give for good behavior.


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## Cheveyo (Nov 19, 2010)

Kyandigaru said:


> I'm....
> -supportive
> -nice
> -sweet
> ...



Personally, I think a better indicator for a person's true self is how aware they are of their own faults.
I wont ask you to list them, but you should take a good hard look at them and figure out if it's something you're doing before you go blaming others.


I mean a REAL look at them, not the typical skimming that most people do. Look at them. Think about them.


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## Kyandigaru (Mar 11, 2012)

XO Skeleton said:


> Maybe its the way you're presenting yourself. I don't remember who said it, butva comedian said "you may not be a whore, but you're wearing a whores uniform." If you dress or act like someone who only wants sex, or if you portray yourself as someone who has lots of sex, no man is going to take you seriously. Some of the men you may have been with were decent guys, but the truth of the matter is that no one with any self respect is going to wife up a whore.
> 
> Of course I don't know you and this is all speculation, but its also based on perception.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-R720 using Tapatalk 2


I am nowhere near the type to dress like a slut. I am conservative with the way I dress. so....that isn't the problem. also, I don't talk to men about sex. they literally, bring it up themselves and when I stop them, they bring it up again and I have to delete yet another number out my phone. obviously the ratio of men that want sex is much greater than men that was relationships.


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## Kyandigaru (Mar 11, 2012)

Cheveyo said:


> Personally, I think a better indicator for a person's true self is how aware they are of their own faults.
> I wont ask you to list them, but you should take a good hard look at them and figure out if it's something you're doing before you go blaming others.
> 
> 
> I mean a REAL look at them, not the typical skimming that most people do. Look at them. Think about them.


i know my faults and it has nothing to do with the horndogs that approach me for sex. i don't dress slutty and i don't talk to them that way. so you mean to tell me a conservative dressing woman who wants to talk about current news, politics and art...is to blame for a man saying "WANT TO SEE A 13INCH DICK BABE?!"


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## HellCat (Jan 17, 2013)

Kyandigaru said:


> i know my faults and it has nothing to do with the horndogs that approach me for sex. i don't dress slutty and i don't talk to them that way. so you mean to tell me a conservative dressing woman who wants to talk about current news, politics and art...is to blame for a man saying "WANT TO SEE A 13INCH DICK BABE?!"


bahahahahaahaha sorry thats still too funny.


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## FearAndTrembling (Jun 5, 2013)

How old are you? I'm assuming pretty young. Fact is, that is common among guys that age. They aren't out looking for relationships.


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## Kyandigaru (Mar 11, 2012)

LeoCat said:


> bahahahahaahaha sorry thats still too funny.


i meant for some of it too be funny. i like humor even in serious talk. its just that i noticed some posters blame the woman for even other men's problems? they automatically looked at me and said..."well how do you dress and talk?" WAIT WHAT??!!! so his crude behavior is okay? talking about his penis is the usual male behavior?


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## Kyandigaru (Mar 11, 2012)

FearAndTrembling said:


> How old are you? I'm assuming pretty young. Fact is, that is common among guys that age. They aren't out looking for relationships.


profile, i am 26


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## Eudaimonia (Sep 24, 2013)

Kyandigaru said:


> i just have to scream this shit. i am tired of men only offering me their penises and can't offer relationship. true dating comes first, but i have witnessed more dicks than hearts. Now i dont do casual sex and i have been offered dick like other women. Why cant men just get to know a woman first?
> 
> i was talking to an irish man, italian man and now a jewish man and both just only seem to offer dicks. race dont have anything to do with it, but goddamn! it has been stuck in my head that i have to lose weight in order to date the commitment man...and i know good and well skinny girls, thick girls all get offered dick only. so it cant be a fat chick thing...


You aren't wanting a non-sexual committed relationship with a man right? This is a little beyond me because I like to know that I man has some kind of libido before the relationship goes any further; otherwise, I've just got me a male friend which is alright, but not what I want in a full on relationship.

Well, anyway, I met a guy today at a cafe you might like. He is African/French and intelligent and loves to talk about physics. Would you want to date this man? Because... I've got to say he was way too lovely and young for the likes of me.

Perhaps if you talk on more cerebral subjects and try for friendship first instead of the relationship first, then may be you might run into the right guy.

I don't know... can't say that I'm good at giving advice.


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## Cheveyo (Nov 19, 2010)

Kyandigaru said:


> i know my faults and it has nothing to do with the horndogs that approach me for sex. i don't dress slutty and i don't talk to them that way. so you mean to tell me a conservative dressing woman who wants to talk about current news, politics and art...is to blame for a man saying "WANT TO SEE A 13INCH DICK BABE?!"




What sort of men are you attracted to?

Where do you go to meet men?

What sort of friends do you have?

Define "conservative".

How do you look at people? Check in the mirror what kind of stare you have.

Are you too nice to people? Some take kindness to mean "she wants the D".

How do you carry yourself?


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

Kyandigaru said:


> 1- bold highlight - im suppose to appreciate being offered dick? this may be a prize to you and how YOU look for love, but honey, I want respect and real courtship when it comes to relationship. 2-bold highlight- I understand what love is and how I want it....did you read what I been telling others? LOL I AM proactive in weeding out the HORNDOGS from men that are actually looking for courtship.


I'm sorry I upset you. I don't sleep around looking for love in all the wrong places. Didn't really appreciate that insinuation but I understand. In any case, I wanted to encourage you to see maybe a different 'flavor' of perspective. And to maybe understand that for men maybe more so than women .. Sexual intimacy is an expression of love even if it's in a detached way. I think for many men, I think they're able to feel their heart more readily with the external expression of it physically as opposed to verbally. Probably why men are so knuckle head about having to express their feelings verbally.  just a speculation. I'm not a man so don't really know. 

I look for for what you do to however I have the opposing problem. And while I know I'm not ugly or fat (though probably could stand to do more squats ) I often times have experienced denial of physical affection and I'm not sure why. Regardless. It's cold and so I guess I just wanted you to understand that while hypothetically you change your way of interacting with men and DO get hearts, it really doesn't mean anything if they aren't at the place they need or want to be in order to pursue an actual relationship. 

I'm not one for casual sexual relations although I kind of wish I was. And I think that regardless of which end of the spectrum we stand, I think it's better to appreciate people as who they are (not who we want them to be) and enjoy what they have to offer with regards to affections (whether that be sexual or not, or whether we want/can accept it or not). 

In other words, give the guy a break. Focus on yourself and what things you could do to send a more direct signal in order to attract what you want. I'm not saying I know how to do that, still trying to figure it out myself. I think it'll present itself as uniquely as the individual in question. That's all. I didn't mean to offend you if I have, and yes, I've read your responses throughout the thread.


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## FlightsOfFancy (Dec 30, 2012)

Kyandigaru said:


> i just have to scream this shit. i am tired of men only offering me their penises and can't offer relationship. true dating comes first, but i have witnessed more dicks than hearts. Now i dont do casual sex and i have been offered dick like other women. Why cant men just get to know a woman first?
> 
> i was talking to an irish man, italian man and now a jewish man and both just only seem to offer dicks. race dont have anything to do with it, but goddamn! it has been stuck in my head that i have to lose weight in order to date the commitment man...and i know good and well skinny girls, thick girls all get offered dick only. so it cant be a fat chick thing....
> 
> *sorry i just have to say this! are any of you ever tired of something that gets in the way of commitment?*


Oh wow.

First, you're probably getting these kind of men due to how you come off or where you're finding them. I'm going for more of the latter, but I can't exclude the former as you sound a little embittered.

Think of it this way: you could be ugly. I know, horrible non-PC thing to say, but a lot of relationships are founded on mutual attraction. If you were not attractive, you would not get men for sex, either, especially if they are looking at you in your face. The guys who do long-term relationships also want to fuck you in much the same fashion, but they are looking for qualities in addition to this. 

Do you come off in a way that suggests that you'd not want a LTR or are not LTR material?


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## FearAndTrembling (Jun 5, 2013)

Alright, I'm gonna think like a man here and try to explain this.

You say you are overweight. I think a reason you may get this kind of attitude is that men assume you have low self-esteem, and they can get away with talking to you like that. And they figure you are desperate, so they figure you will go along with it. They think you're a "slam pig".

They wouldn't walk up to a knockout or Meryl Streep type figure and say that shit. I mean, you think guys walk up to a girl who looks and acts like Scarlet Johannson, and asks her if she wants to see his penis? That never happens to her. It also never happens to most of my female friends I know. 

Honestly, they don't respect you because of your appearance would be my guess. I know it is incredibly shallow and not right, but if I had to put money on a reason, it would be that.

I behave somewhat like this. I am more careful around a 9 than I am a 6. I feel I have more leeway and leverage with a 6. And I can say anything I fucking want to a 5 or lower.


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## Kyandigaru (Mar 11, 2012)

Cheveyo said:


> What sort of men are you attracted to?
> 
> Where do you go to meet men?
> 
> ...


all of the answers can be found in my responses. sorry to sound rude but it is. conservative meaning covered up. i don't show breast to men or butt. i am polite to everyone i meet, and the way i usually smile at people when they stare at me. im attracted to smart, funny, sweet, respectable and trusting men. how do i carry myself? with a good head on my shoulders as i like to think. my question to you is, WHAT DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH GETTING TIRED OF BEING OFFERED SEX RATHER THAN DATING AND RELATIONSHIP?


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## Kyandigaru (Mar 11, 2012)

FearAndTrembling said:


> Alright, I'm gonna think like a man here and try to explain this.
> 
> You say you are overweight. I think a reason you may get this kind of attitude is that men assume you have low self-esteem, and they can get away with talking to you like that. And they figure you are desperate, so they figure you will go along with it. They think you're a "slam pig".
> 
> ...


THIS...ALL OF THIS. i know there are few women that who are smaller, get this reaction from men too. lol however, i do believe it is about that appearance too.


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## Cheveyo (Nov 19, 2010)

Kyandigaru said:


> all of the answers can be found in my responses. sorry to sound rude but it is. conservative meaning covered up. i don't show breast to men or butt. i am polite to everyone i meet, and the way i usually smile at people when they stare at me. im attracted to smart, funny, sweet, respectable and trusting men. how do i carry myself? with a good head on my shoulders as i like to think. my question to you is, WHAT DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH GETTING TIRED OF BEING OFFERED SEX RATHER THAN DATING AND RELATIONSHIP?




How you present yourself, what you desire, it all plays into how others see you and whether or not they'll approach you.


Me, I look like some sort of psycho. As such, people don't tend to approach me when I'm out and about. Even store employees who have to approach suspicious individuals show clear signs of unease when coming to talk to me. I look mean. You should see how kids react to me: O_O









(not me)





Appearance is (almost) everything. Location is also important. Everything matters.


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## Kyandigaru (Mar 11, 2012)

@Cheveyo too bad cause that man is gorgeous. and yes i get the point of being watchful of the way sell myself.


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## Das Brechen (Nov 26, 2011)

Kyandigaru said:


> I'm....
> -supportive
> -nice
> -sweet
> ...


Maybe it's the utilitarian in me, but all I see are plenty of pretty adjectives. I would think a man of substance would interested in what you can DO and/or be willing to do. I know I'm not your type but...if it was me, I'd be looking at what a commitment could bring into my life what I don't already have. I know it makes me look fickle but like I said before, a man of substance who truly has his things together is going to be picky. I do agree with the other posters especially when it comes to your physical appearance and attitude is a game changer.

Will you find somebody to love you for you? Maybe. You come across to me like a decent woman. I guess it's getting that one for you to see it as well. The only thing I would say that's a bit troubling is it seems your holding sex hostage in exchange for a commitment. I can't say for sure the exact number of guys who are confident, financially stable, and relatively handsome would be down for that but IMO, I think it would slim. Especially if they're good with women. But...I've been wrong before.


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## Cetanu (Jan 20, 2012)

Kyandigaru said:


> i just have to scream this shit. i am tired of men only offering me their penises and can't offer relationship. true dating comes first, but i have witnessed more dicks than hearts. Now i dont do casual sex and i have been offered dick like other women. Why cant men just get to know a woman first?
> 
> i was talking to an irish man, italian man and now a jewish man and both just only seem to offer dicks. race dont have anything to do with it, but goddamn! it has been stuck in my head that i have to lose weight in order to date the commitment man...and i know good and well skinny girls, thick girls all get offered dick only. so it cant be a fat chick thing....
> 
> *sorry i just have to say this! are any of you ever tired of something that gets in the way of commitment?*


Haha

What makes you think it's WORTH getting into a commitment for men these days?

There is no upside for us. Might as well enjoy the dick.


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## g_w (Apr 16, 2013)

Kyandigaru said:


> Thanks. i do believe this advice even though i met my ex when i wasnt looking and it was a better relationship than the other one. i guess it didnt work because of other factors such as; family, friends and his lack of common sense.
> @_MisterD_
> yes its hard to be a woman, but its harder being one looking for commitment. i always get the men are horny excuse, but i know there is some sane guy looking for a real woman and not some bullshit.


The complaint from many MEN, is that, where can they find a woman who hasn't yet sampled a dozen other guys' dicks, who is saving themselves for (at least) commitment, and (even better) for marriage?
Rare as a unicorn these days, I know, on both parts.
Many of the men who don't offer dick first, are either 
a) already married
b) shy or nerdy or hiding from women after too many nuclear rejections.

If you like a guy, you gotta make it painfully obvious sometimes: but the problem is, the wrong kind of guy will take that as you begging for ...you know.
It's almost enough to make one want to go back to arranged marriages and chaperoned dates...or at least, dates where alcohol and drunken hookups aren't the statistically most likely way to meet someone.


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## Villainous (Dec 31, 2012)

Want some dick?


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## dagnytaggart (Jun 6, 2010)

Maybe something is wrong with your online profile. If you're comfortable with PM'ing me a link to it, I'd be happy to critique it. 

Because I've never had that problem...all the guys I've encountered were very eager to commit. Unfortunately my problem is more that I attract the jealous types for whatever reason. So accept my "help" at your own risk. lol


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## Cetanu (Jan 20, 2012)

g_w said:


> The complaint from many MEN, is that, where can they find a woman who hasn't yet sampled a dozen other guys' dicks, who is saving themselves for (at least) commitment, and (even better) for marriage?
> Rare as a unicorn these days, I know, on both parts.
> Many of the men who don't offer dick first, are either
> a) already married
> ...


Add on top of this the fact that:

- 66% of divorces are initiated by women (*How's that desire for commitment going, huh?*)
- Family courts are biased towards women
- You will end up paying child support and/or alimony for the rest of your life to someone who never appreciated your time and hard work in the first place

Do you really wanna commit, as a guy? Fuck no.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

I had a six year relationship with a man I met online, and an intense emotional entanglement with another man I met online for a year and a half, who was actually really a decent and attentive companion, though I now hesitate to call him a good friend, he was one of my best friends at the time.

The hook up culture is to blame. It actually kind of disgusts me that people are trying to blame you. Yes, 18 out of 20 will want sex or casual dating, only the right man is willing to spend more time with YOU.

The way you can take responsibility for it is by not selling your self short, and looking in other places, but I disagree that all men online are just looking for a hook up. This is false. But our generation in this society is a hook up culture, in general.


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## g_w (Apr 16, 2013)

Cetanu said:


> Add on top of this the fact that:
> 
> - 66% of divorces are initiated by women (*How's that desire for commitment going, huh?*)
> - Family courts are biased towards women
> ...


I smell some Red Pill thinking from the PUA end of the spectrum.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

FearAndTrembling said:


> Alright, I'm gonna think like a man here and try to explain this.
> 
> You say you are overweight. I think a reason you may get this kind of attitude is that men assume you have low self-esteem, and they can get away with talking to you like that. And they figure you are desperate, so they figure you will go along with it. They think you're a "slam pig".
> 
> ...


You are out of your mind. I know a woman who weighs maybe a hundred pounds who complained that between 19 and 26, men only wanted hook ups. She is very slender. I was floored that for seven years of her adult life she kept meeting players. I told her to fish in a different pond. She is the antithesis of "fat."

I on the other hand have had boyfriends fairly consistently, but I get my fair share of players trying to hook up too, and I am medium build, not skinny or fat.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Kyandigaru said:


> THIS...ALL OF THIS. i know there are few women that who are smaller, get this reaction from men too. lol however, i do believe it is about that appearance too.


It's not your weight, or not just your weight. Please read my response to him.


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## FearAndTrembling (Jun 5, 2013)

fourtines said:


> It's not your weight, or not just your weight. Please read my response to him.


I know men better than you do. Don't even start. Men think they can judge what they can get away with with a woman just by looking at her. I'm good at it. I've pinched the ass of many strange women, and never got a negative response. Because I know what I'm doing... I can tell who would be terribly offended by it, and who wants it. These men are playing the same game, but aren't very good at it.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Kyandigaru said:


> ha. thanks no problem! I made myself look like a pity.


Do you value yourself lower because of your weight? That could be the problem more so than actual weight. There are men who adore BBW sexually, so they would not be using you as a "slam pig" as our forum narcissist suggested, but you are actually their type. 

But if you secretly project low self-esteem you will attract douches who won't value you, because you are not placing higher value on your self.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

FearAndTrembling said:


> I know men better than you do. Don't even start. Men think they can judge what they can get away with with a woman just by looking at her. I'm good at it. I've pinched the ass of many strange women, and never got a negative response. Because I know what I'm doing... I can tell who would be terribly offended by it, and who wants it. These men are playing the same game, but aren't very good at it.


Just shut up. You really are not in tune with reality. Women of all weights can be used or loved.

I know who you target. Women with low self-esteem. Oh yeah sure you're a genius.


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## FearAndTrembling (Jun 5, 2013)

fourtines said:


> Just shut up. You really are not in tune with reality. Women of all weights can be used or love.
> 
> I know who you target. Women with low self-esteem. Oh yeah sure you're a genius.


lol. I honestly love talking to you. I really do.


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

FearAndTrembling said:


> I know men better than you do. Don't even start. Men think they can judge what they can get away with with a woman just by looking at her. I'm good at it. I've pinched the ass of many strange women, and never got a negative response. Because I know what I'm doing... I can tell who would be terribly offended by it, and who wants it. These men are playing the same game, but aren't very good at it.


Wow.


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## Agile (Sep 27, 2010)

FearAndTrembling said:


> I know men better than you do. Don't even start. Men think they can judge what they can get away with with a woman just by looking at her. I'm good at it. I've pinched the ass of many strange women, and never got a negative response. Because I know what I'm doing... I can tell who would be terribly offended by it, and who wants it. These men are playing the same game, but aren't very good at it.



You can't take your subjective experiences and use that to represent all men.


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## Zombie Devil Duckie (Apr 11, 2012)

> Ive pinched the ass of many strange women, and never got a negative response. Because I know what I'm doing... I can tell who would be terribly offended by it, and who wants it.


Huh....... I've never pinched "the ass of many strange women". I wonder what else I've missed over the years, treating women as people rather than sex objects... But, then again i'm one of those people you hate, who thinks it's fun to celebrate Halloween with parties and costumes.


:kitteh:


To the OP, it's a numbers game. If you keep at it, eventually you will find what you are looking for. Unfortunately you are competing with an over sexualized, porn obsessed, society. I'm still a bit confused as to what brought about the ethnicity comment (in your original post). It was an odd thing to include/mention.


-ZDD


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## Cetanu (Jan 20, 2012)

g_w said:


> I smell some Red Pill thinking from the PUA end of the spectrum.


Nope, not red pill, not PUA, not MGTOW, whatever the fuck it all is.

I just tend to keep an ear open and put 2+2 together.

You have to admit, would you seriously bother when there's a 2/3 chance of getting fucked over in the biggest way?


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## Kyandigaru (Mar 11, 2012)

Zombie Devil Duckie said:


> Huh....... I've never pinched "the ass of many strange women". I wonder what else I've missed over the years, treating women as people rather than sex objects... But, then again i'm one of those people you hate, who thinks it's fun to celebrate Halloween with parties and costumes.
> 
> 
> :kitteh:
> ...


I also mentioned in that same post that race isn't the issue.


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## JoetheBull (Apr 29, 2010)

FearAndTrembling said:


> Men think they can judge what they can get away with with a woman just by looking at her.


I do? I usually trying to judge whether they will kill everyone in the room. I have been watching too much Black Lagoon, I know.


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## Cetanu (Jan 20, 2012)

Zombie Devil Duckie said:


> Huh....... I've never pinched "the ass of many strange women". I wonder what else I've missed over the years, treating women as people rather than sex objects... But, then again i'm one of those people you hate, who thinks it's fun to celebrate Halloween with parties and costumes.
> 
> 
> :kitteh:
> ...


Is obsessed really the word when it comes to porn?

Is all of society really "obsessed" over porn?

I mean, for example, Bruce Lee was "obsessed" with his martial arts and strength training.
Some kids might be totally obsessed with Magic the Gathering cards, and they might go win a tournament because of it.

I think the running total of people obsessed with porn is not in the majority, I think the reality is that there are so few that it is not even noticeable.

Unless you meant a different word such as *habitual*, which is probably closer to the truth, in which case, why would you say obsessed?


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

FearAndTrembling said:


> lol. I honestly love talking to you. I really do.


Dude, our very own @snail and several large ladies I know irl are happily married. Love and marriage aren't about who is the skinniest...and skinny women get used too. Heidi Klum, the supermodel, was dumped while pregnant.

I am honestly wanting to laugh hysterically at you saying men treat better looking women better...but the question is WHICH MEN...and what the hell does that do with showing someone your heart?

The reason why I don't laugh though is because women with low self-esteem believe things like that, and it keeps them locked into a pattern of not valuing themselves, like a self fulfilling prophecy.

Don't mess with me, son, I am way out of your league, no matter what you think of my looks.


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## Kyandigaru (Mar 11, 2012)

fourtines said:


> Dude, our very own @_snail_ and several large ladies I know irl are happily married. Love and marriage aren't about who is the skinniest...and skinny women get used too. Heidi Klum, the supermodel, was dumped while pregnant.
> 
> I am honestly wanting to laugh hysterically at you saying men treat better looking women better...but the question is WHICH MEN...and what the hell does that do with showing someone your heart?
> 
> ...


my self-esteem isn't low and thanks for setting that post straight. you @LeoCat @_snail_ and @_Ace Face_ both have gave great inputs as well as a few other men here. my post was generally a rant about why men are quick to offer dick rather than their hearts. I think the saying is, "Women look for love and find sex. Men look for sex and find love". this is very true.


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## FearAndTrembling (Jun 5, 2013)

fourtines said:


> Dude, our very own @_snail_ and several large ladies I know irl are happily married. Love and marriage aren't about who is the skinniest...and skinny women get used too. Heidi Klum, the supermodel, was dumped while pregnant.
> 
> I am honestly wanting to laugh hysterically at you saying men treat better looking women better...but the question is WHICH MEN...and what the hell does that do with showing someone your heart?
> 
> ...


Are you happy that you knocked over that strawman? 

Where did I ever say that nobody can love an overweight woman, or anything of the kind? You think guys walking up and asking her if she wants to see an Alabama Black Snake are looking for love? lol

I was looking at her case individually, and trying to get into the head of the particular men who approached her this way. I think I did a good job of doing that. She even agreed with me.


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## HellCat (Jan 17, 2013)

Kyandigaru said:


> my self-esteem isn't low and thanks for setting that post straight. you @_LeoCat_ @_snail_ and @_Ace Face_ both have gave great inputs as well as a few other men here. my post was generally a rant about why men are quick to offer dick rather than their hearts. I think the saying is, "Women look for love and find sex. Men look for sex and find love". this is very true.


I still say take up a martial art.. you will get addicted! 

I tend to think like a man on the sex thing, but I make them befriend me. Never been "in love"


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## BlackDog (Jan 6, 2012)

g_w said:


> We both scoped each other out for shared values and life goals, and shared ideas about the role of the sexes within marriage.
> As I said elsewhere on the thread, we were both virgins when we got married: but we kind of made up for that pretty quickly. :laughing:
> 
> The biggest thing is that marriage is NOT just for fun -- but, you know, life itself is not just for fun, either. Think about single life: the car breaks down, the bills have to be paid, the dog throws up on the rug the night before the big presentation at work, and so on and so on.
> ...


I was totally agreeing with you until you started saying women want to be followers. Hah!

Do you really think thats a gender thing? It is totally to do with personality. 

I am naturally more dominant than my boyfriend and that works just fine for us.


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## g_w (Apr 16, 2013)

BlackDog said:


> I was totally agreeing with you until you started saying women want to be followers. Hah!
> 
> Do you really think thats a gender thing? It is totally to do with personality.
> 
> I am naturally more dominant than my boyfriend and that works just fine for us.


"Center of the Bell Curve" and all that. INTJ women are (in)famous for finding INFP men (for example) and doing the whole gender-role-reversal-thing in relationships.
Yeah, I'm an INTJ guy myself, I grok the type.  But it's still not "typical" (i.e. statistically most likely, plurality, what have you).
Best wishes with your BF.


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## BlackDog (Jan 6, 2012)

Cetanu said:


> Perhaps in your perfectly equal world, where men can have babies, your point would be valid. In this case, men can't sue their wives for an accidental pregnancy, because it would obviously have come out of another woman's womb, who would then sue him for child support while his wife divorces him and takes half of his belongings. Lol.
> 
> You think that my point is invalid, because YOU are financially independent? So you are saying that the SINGLE OCCURRENCE of you existing dismisses all of the instances I have seen where the situation is reversed?
> I think it's great that you're independent. I have massive respect for you. Thank you (sincerely) for being an *adult* and being responsible for yourself. Really, I'm not being sarcastic here, I could compliment you for a couple of minutes non-stop based on what you've told me alone.
> ...



I guess I can't argue with you because I just straight up don't know the type of people you are talking about. I mean, yeah I've met a few nasty girls who want their boyfriends to buy them shit and play mind games, but for every bimbo with a joint bank account I know, I know a douchie guy who cheats on his girlfriend and then tells her that she got chlamydia from the gym (oh, and knocks up her friend, too). I'm serious, that did happen. I wish it hadn't. 

I just really don't think it's a gender thing. It's about people, and maybe certain trends are more prevalent in one gender over the other but really we are people wronging other people. 

Everyone needs to wade through bullshit when they're dating. Either you've got a girl who wants you to pay for dinner and buy her jewellery or you meet a guy (like I did) who straight up tells you that _when_ you have children you have to quit your job as a lawyer and be a stay at home mom, because he will be going on too many business trips. Yeah, I don't think so pal. I didn't go to school to sit at home thinking about the new legislature while I scrub the dishes. 

Anyway, I'm glad you hear you aren't totally down on monogamy. I just think we need to all ease up a bit on this men-vs-women thing. I have spent too much time on the internet the last few months and that's getting depressing. If you can't find the right girl, then of course marriage isn't worth it. Keep looking until you find somebody worth it.


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## BlackDog (Jan 6, 2012)

g_w said:


> "Center of the Bell Curve" and all that. INTJ women are (in)famous for finding INFP men (for example) and doing the whole gender-role-reversal-thing in relationships.
> Yeah, I'm an INTJ guy myself, I grok the type. But it's still not "typical" (i.e. statistically most likely, plurality, what have you).
> Best wishes with your BF.


My boyfriend is an ESFP. It gets a little hairy sometimes, haha. 

But we've been living together for over two years and I think we're doing pretty okay.


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## g_w (Apr 16, 2013)

BlackDog said:


> My boyfriend is an ESFP. It gets a little hairy sometimes, haha.
> 
> But we've been living together for over two years and I think we're doing pretty okay.


Maybe he's just scared to divorce you since you're a lawyer. /rim-shot>


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## BlackDog (Jan 6, 2012)

g_w said:


> Maybe he's just scared to divorce you since you're a lawyer. /rim-shot>


Haha, maybe.

Only I'm not technically a lawyer yet. I have worked in a law firm for years but my schooling got interrupted and I have to go finish! Can't wait until I'm done, ugh.


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## Vaka (Feb 26, 2010)

Cetanu said:


> That's why I have such an opinion of "Why the fuck should a man be with a woman these days?" because logically, taking into account what I have seen, it doesn't make actual sense any more.


Yep, more for us


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## g_w (Apr 16, 2013)

BlackDog said:


> Haha, maybe.
> 
> Only I'm not technically a lawyer yet. I have worked in a law firm for years but my schooling got interrupted and I have to go finish! Can't wait until I'm done, ugh.


Q. What does a lawyer use for contraception?
A. Their PERSONALITY. :laughing:


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## Cetanu (Jan 20, 2012)

BlackDog said:


> I guess I can't argue with you because I just straight up don't know the type of people you are talking about. I mean, yeah I've met a few nasty girls who want their boyfriends to buy them shit and play mind games, but for every bimbo with a joint bank account I know, I know a douchie guy who cheats on his girlfriend and then tells her that she got chlamydia from the gym (oh, and knocks up her friend, too). I'm serious, that did happen. I wish it hadn't.
> 
> I just really don't think it's a gender thing. It's about people, and maybe certain trends are more prevalent in one gender over the other but really we are people wronging other people.
> 
> ...


Step back one minute...
I don't think I ever said that this was a "gender thing", as in, women are inherently 'this way'. Maybe I implied that, I apologize if I came across that way, but I don't think it is a "woman thing".
To me, I just see it as "Here's my chances" based on the information I've gathered, my experiences, and so on. I could throw all of that to the wind and take whatever risk is thrown at me, I am going to die one day and none of this really matters, but my brain just happens to prefer calculating risks based on empirical data and subsequently avoiding those risks completely.

So really, I have just been exposed to a bunch of information which makes me view marriage and similar style commitments as having a list of pros/cons which is tipped too far in favor of cons. That's all, I don't think it's because women are "bad" or something. I totally agree there are an equal amount of male douchebags. People never fail to disappoint!

Essentially, I could keep my opinion to myself, I guess I'm just inclined to express it because I am an idealist at heart and I believe that by getting my thought out into other people's minds, at the very least I am affecting some kind of change or increasing awareness that there is a concern in the world for what it is that I am expressing. In all honesty I will probably live a really good life. We are all privileged up to our eyeballs in western society, I hate this stupid gender war.

You might not imagine it, but I'm in a happy relationship right now. I probably will be with my girlfriend Suzy for a long time, even indefinitely. This whole concept does really conflict inside me.

It's interesting, maybe a couple of the female behaviors that I have read about, have manifested in my girlfriend in the past, but we've dealt with them and we are on a much more even field these days. I assert that there are some stereotypical 'female' things that you do, which are totally invisible to you. I can say the same for myself, yet it doesn't make it any easier to see them...


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## Villainous (Dec 31, 2012)

fourtines said:


> Your beliefs about sex are narcissistic. You don't deserve anyone's intimacy as soon as you meet them, you are not entitled to it, particularly with "no strings attached" unless YOU MAKE IT VERY CLEAR THAT YOU HAVE NOTHING MORE TO OFFER. If you meet people with your bizarre assumption and don't make it clear that you just want ass, don't be surprised when the same old shit keeps happening because you can't get women to behave like good little objects.
> 
> I don't know if you realize how staggering your sense of entitlement is.
> 
> Make us a sandwich and bring us a beer? Seriously son I would not recommend you to anyone.


Chill out son

Sex is not the same as intimacy. It can also be pretty narcissistic for women to expect a relationship after having sex once. Which one is right? Both. Neither. The key is to be clear about it, which I wholeheartedly advocate. If it's just sex I want, I make it clear and don't lead on. That' my personal choice which a lot of guys actually have advised me against since according to them I'll get more ass by lying and pretending I want a relationship.

If you haven't noticed, I can be pretty direct. That includes talking to women. I don't have time for bullshit from others nor from myself. If a guy can't get what he wants through honesty, well, that's pretty pathetic in my opinion.

And that's just doing something nice. Never said we are entitled to that, it's just one of many suggestions on how to do something nice for a guy. I've never asked for this nor do I expect it. It's just something I'd find as a nice gesture with which I would do something nice in return.

I didn't say all women should make men sandwiches. I said if you want to improve the chances of keeping a man, you can make him a motherfuckin' sandwich if you are inclined to do so. Don't get your panties in a bunch


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## Villainous (Dec 31, 2012)

chimeric said:


> Villainous, you really shouldn't pin this all on women.


There are always exceptions, this is a given. Why do people not understand the obvious. Whenever anyone makes a generalization, it's implicit that it is a generalization and that individual cases vary. It's simply the aggregation of a trend, a theme that pops up here and there enough to be noticeable. That is all. The point of the statement is to highlight the theme, not to apply it to every individual case.


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## chimeric (Oct 15, 2011)

Villainous said:


> There are always exceptions, this is a given. Why do people not understand the obvious. Whenever anyone makes a generalization, it's implicit that it is a generalization and that individual cases vary. It's simply the aggregation of a trend, a theme that pops up here and there enough to be noticeable. That is all. The point of the statement is to highlight the theme, not to apply it to every individual case.


Women are given contradictory messages of how they "should" be. You have your opinion, and many other men have theirs. Neither of your opinions are "right," because women should have however much or little sex as they feel like _when_ they feel like.

IME, a majority of men don't want to settle down with a woman who has a long sexual CV. If a woman's ultimate goal is settling down, she'll feel a pressure to not alienate a majority of her potential suiters. Whatever sexual choices she does end up making, that pressure is there, and to deny it is silly.

The above is assuming she even feels a desire to sleep with someone early in the relationship in the first place. Many don't.


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## HellCat (Jan 17, 2013)

I think the Villain was offering tips for the more feeling types of woman, on how to take charge, have the upper hand in dealings, stand out and detach and not look so unicorns, rainbows and bridal showers to men. Which is like holding a cat over a bath tub. They go crazy enough worrying about the less than mentally sound females in the past who decide its true love when they don't have a damn thing in common and started planning weddings the first date.. so Ie: the sandwich thing, the being aloof and making them wonder. They were good to be honest. I agree with him.. It shows independence and how difficult is it to make a fucking sandwich anyway?


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## Das Brechen (Nov 26, 2011)

chimeric said:


> Women are given contradictory messages of how they "should" be. You have your opinion, and many other men have theirs. Neither of your opinions are "right," because women should have however much or little sex as they feel like _when_ they feel like.
> 
> IME, a majority of men don't want to settle down with a woman who has a long sexual CV. If a woman's ultimate goal is settling down, she'll feel a pressure to not alienate a majority of her potential suiters. Whatever sexual choices she does end up making, that pressure is there, and to deny it is silly.
> 
> The above is assuming she even feels a desire to sleep with someone early in the relationship in the first place. Many don't.


I've got no problem with anything you said but I am curious. A woman is "right" in her assertion to engage in sex at the time and place of her choosing. Is a man "wrong" to withhold commitment at his discretion? I think if the mutual goal is to develop a healthy relationship then the timing of when sex happens doesn't matter. Well, I guess it is values dependent on the person. I can see the conflict in wanting to keep the number of sexual partners low while asserting one's sexual independence. Something's gotta give, right? Or can you have it all? 

I guess what I really want to know is your opinion on whether or not men and women should value commitment over sex.


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## chimeric (Oct 15, 2011)

Das Brechen said:


> I guess what I really want to know is your opinion on whether or not men and women should value commitment over sex.


Men and women should make their own choices what they want to value, on an individual basis. I was reacting to Villainous' idea that women are somehow wrong for not jumping into bed early. Whenever anyone wants to have sex (or not), or commit (or not), that's their prerogative. Choices people make in this regard can be right or wrong _for them_, but I don't believe there is some inherent Way That People Should Be. Depends what you want out of life, out of that moment, etc.


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## series0 (Feb 18, 2013)

Kyandigaru said:


> i just have to scream this shit. i am tired of men only offering me their penises and can't offer relationship. true dating comes first, but i have witnessed more dicks than hearts. Now i dont do casual sex and i have been offered dick like other women. Why cant men just get to know a woman first?
> 
> I was talking to an irish man, italian man and now a jewish man and both just only seem to offer dicks. race dont have anything to do with it, but goddamn! it has been stuck in my head that i have to lose weight in order to date the commitment man...and i know good and well skinny girls, thick girls all get offered dick only. so it cant be a fat chick thing....
> 
> *sorry i just have to say this! are any of you ever tired of something that gets in the way of commitment?*


I think you are likely to discover that its the other assumed criteria you have that is filtering out the men who would offer more than dick. Maybe these other men are less likely to approach or indeed want to be approached? Maybe they are rather chubby themselves. Maybe they are poor. Maybe they are a bit lazy.

Yet and still, I have been out there before, attractive, smart, wealthy, active, and looking for commitment. And found nothing of interest to me. But I acknowledge I am very very picky. So I am not surprised that I can;t find what I want. So, if you're not too picky, the men you want are out there. You just have to keep looking in different places and being very approachable or attractive or perhaps approach yourself. 

I think dating websites are an awesome way to start something. Just contact a dozen likely men and strike up a conversation. Despite years of being online and hundreds of attempted conversations in that venue (not a venue I really enjoy) I can count in less than 3 digits the total number of women who have contacted me first. I can imagine nothing more pathetic than a person complaining (like maybe you are) when they have not even tried to initiate conversations via the super easy medium of online dating. To me it's almost disingenuous, not to mention lazy, and ... well ... just pathetic. Apologies if you have tried this and it also did not work.


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## BlackDog (Jan 6, 2012)

Villainous said:


> Chill out son
> 
> Sex is not the same as intimacy. It can also be pretty narcissistic for women to expect a relationship after having sex once. Which one is right? Both. Neither. The key is to be clear about it, which I wholeheartedly advocate. If it's just sex I want, I make it clear and don't lead on. That' my personal choice which a lot of guys actually have advised me against since according to them I'll get more ass by lying and pretending I want a relationship.
> 
> ...


Oh, gimme a break. 

You're honest and to the point? Great, so am I. But lets not pretend that post about what women should do during/after sex was not meant to rile us up a bit. What part of that is not intentionally offensive?

I understand saying "Hey, how about we go out for a sandwich and a beer?" after but I guess that would make the girl too clingy?

You were right about one thing though - its foolish to expect a relationship just because two people had sex. However, if a man whispers sweet nothings in a girl's ear all night and feigns interest in her personality he can hardly be surprised when she turns out to be human.


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## AriesLilith (Jan 6, 2013)

OP, some include myself gave the suggestion that you might want to do some self analysis as to why you might attract men who are just looking for sex is not a judgment towards you or assume that something is necessarily wrong with you. It was rather just a suggestion, as people often might have something that they don't realize that can attract a certain pattern of people. For example, some people tend to attract dependent people, others tend to attract abusive people, and so on, yet they might not realize why even if they are not really at fault. Even when attracting "healthy" and desireable people, we tend to have a pattern. For example, I tend to attract people who are more traditional and conservative, that are a bit more passive, and this is a pattern that something in me causes.

I agree with others that it's better to have them tell you honestly what they want. Personally, I believe that it's not wrong to want sex and no commitment (even if I'm the kind that also prefers commitment over casual sex), everyone has their own preference anyways. The only problem is if they don't respect you, but if they are honest then you can also be honest and tell them that you are not looking for the same things. It's not easy to find someone with shared values, and then maybe you are looking in the wrong place, but the best to do is to respect their choices and simply tell them honestly, unless they are not respectful.

Also, I agree with @*series0*, you can take initiative and contact the guys that seems to interest you in the online sites too. That way you can find out which profile has more potential. When I was younger, I used to use chat apps like ICQ, and I did take initiative in talking to guys even thought I was not exactly looking for romance.


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## Zombie Devil Duckie (Apr 11, 2012)

Cetanu said:


> Is obsessed really the word when it comes to porn?
> 
> Is all of society really "obsessed" over porn?
> 
> ...


https://wsr.byu.edu/pornographystats



The Stats on Internet Pornography [infographic]












So.. yes, obsessed. When Pornography revenue constitutes more than all combined revenues of *all professional football, baseball and basketball franchises*, I'd say it's an obsession. 


Btw, I'm not making a judgement as to whether it's 'wrong'... I'm simply answering your question as to why I elected to use the word "obsessed" 



-ZDD


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## Zombie Devil Duckie (Apr 11, 2012)

> look at my profile picture and tell me what you think of me. from engaging with me to my looks


Depends on what your teeth look like and how well you take to being shooed. What kind of saddle does your owner put on you? Western or dressage?

roud:

-ZDD


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