# Ni and synesthesia



## badweather (Apr 14, 2015)

Lestany said:


> Synesthesia....I think of a teacher I had in high school...
> There was this writing exercise she'd have us do called 'breaking open a word', basically word association. Reading mine out loud one day, she noted how I had named colors ie asphalt, black, etc, and asked me if I ever saw colors like she did.
> 
> If I can remember how she described herself...she said she saw colors associated with people, or rather, someone's mood. If she saw blue, she would know that person was having a bad day, and so on.
> ...


I see people's moods in colors too. Someone told me I was seeing chakra colors in their aura. I said I don't know, because the colors are never the same as the chakra, and the colors aren't the same for the supposed moods associated with the chakras.


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## Deadly Decorum (Feb 23, 2014)

slemo said:


> I don't know, but what you said made me think of Proust (which I am really thankful for). He can find a lot of meaning in a cookie.


I doubt this is synesthesia. Synesthetes experience inductors (triggers) that elicit consistent secondary sensory triggers. For example, an individual with grapheme color synesthesia will see specific letters as specific colors, which do not change over time. An excellent example:



> One day,' I said to my father, 'I realized that to make an 'R' all I had to do was first write a 'P' and then draw a line down from its loop. And I was so surprised that I could turn a yellow letter into an orange letter just by adding a line.


Sounds more to me like an inexplicable feeling of joy, sort of like a rush or high, had taken place in the example you had cited, unless I'm mistaken. Certainly not synesthesia... synesthesia is not out of the blue sensations, but consistent experiences of colors or sounds or personifications (numbers for instance). Still very interesting.
@Ksara also probably not synesthesia. Synesthesia is consistent, so say you'd hear D minor for the first time and saw yellow. Every subsequent encounter of D minor would therefore evoke the color yellow in your mind. I have done similar things as described in my original post. @fair phantom already explained this though.


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## BlackDog (Jan 6, 2012)

I'm a Ni Dom and I experience synesthesia. Mostly spatial sequence synesthesia and I can taste/smell colour. I didn't realize for many years that I was doing it. I called my boyfriends green shirt his celery shirt because I strongly tasted and smelled celery when I saw it. He thought it just reminded me of the colour of celery or something, but it was stronger than that. Certain shades of colour taste sweet or fruity to me, or bitter. I can tell if I have seen a colour out of the corner of my eye but not consciously registered it if I taste it first. Like a certain shade of colour makes me taste a tangy sweetness, like pineapple. So one day I'm walking along and suddenly strongly taste and smell pineapple, like I just bit into one. So I look around and see a sign across the street with the pineapple colour that i didn't even notice. 

Months of the year and numbers are located spatially in my mind. They have a physical location. 

Anyway, I sort of doubt it has to do with functions. I only somewhat recently realized that not everybody has this though.


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## Blue Soul (Mar 14, 2015)

You might find these interesting:

Famous people with synesthesia list

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_with_synesthesia


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## Blue Soul (Mar 14, 2015)

BlackDog said:


> I'm a Ni Dom and I experience synesthesia. Mostly spatial sequence synesthesia and I can taste/smell colour. I didn't realize for many years that I was doing it. I called my boyfriends green shirt his celery shirt because I strongly tasted and smelled celery when I saw it. He thought it just reminded me of the colour of celery or something, but it was stronger than that. Certain shades of colour taste sweet or fruity to me, or bitter. I can tell if I have seen a colour out of the corner of my eye but not consciously registered it if I taste it first. Like a certain shade of colour makes me taste a tangy sweetness, like pineapple. So one day I'm walking along and suddenly strongly taste and smell pineapple, like I just bit into one. So I look around and see a sign across the street with the pineapple colour that i didn't even notice.
> 
> Months of the year and numbers are located spatially in my mind. They have a physical location.
> 
> Anyway, I sort of doubt it has to do with functions. I only somewhat recently realized that not everybody has this though.


What does my avatar taste/smell like? ^^



TelepathicGoose said:


> I wouldn't say all people with synesthesia have Ni, as I'm an Ne-dom with prominent synesthesia, and no Ni to detect.


Which kind?


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## Kyusaku (Mar 18, 2014)

Seems kind of cool, but I don't have those at all. My thought and sensory processes are very distinct, one can trigger or intensify the other, but they don't mix. On the other hand every word has a peculiar feeling attached to it, but I guess that's not synesthesia but my auxiliary Fe focusing on that specific angle of things.


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## Telepathis Goosus (Mar 28, 2015)

Blue Soul said:


> Which kind?


For me, every musical note has a color, every day of the week has a color, and every letter and number has a color. I was diagnosed with synesthesia when I was 6, I believe.


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

TelepathicGoose said:


> For me, every musical note has a color, every day of the week has a color, and every letter and number has a color. I was diagnosed with synesthesia when I was 6, I believe.


What do you see in shinynotshiny :O ?


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## eXceeding_death (Jan 24, 2013)

I have a strong synaesthesia and I always associated it with Si rather than Ni in jungian terms. Maybe it's actually more of an "inferior sensing" thing actually? It would somewhat make sense that being kinda repressed, or unconscious, the realm of sensing doesn't operate as "normally" and can be experienced in such atypical ways?

Also I'm fairly certain that Proust is INFP, not Si dom; though tertiary Si can be felt a lot in his writing for sure. There is that strong "anti" Te (even Je in general) mindset all along his works; I'd say his writings are a very good example of Fi overall.


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## Telepathis Goosus (Mar 28, 2015)

shinynotshiny said:


> What do you see in shinynotshiny :O ?


Silver and gold.


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

TelepathicGoose said:


> Silver and gold.


erc2:


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## Telepathis Goosus (Mar 28, 2015)

shinynotshiny said:


> erc2:


:crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy:


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## ruskiix (Sep 28, 2013)

Abraham Law said:


> Possible. I kick numbers and throw letters. Weird right? That is what I do though and it works well. If I do have synesthesia, it is definitely a kinesthetic > concept type.


I have strong associations with kinesthetic details and concepts that don't have them explicitly. Maybe an Ni-Se thing.

Was reading that there's a theory that metaphorical thinking and synesthesia are similar. Which is interesting and makes sense. Ni types tend to think very metaphorically--like, I've described the feeling of some meds as being like the sound a car makes when you keep turning and holding the key but it can't start. And it literally is that sound to me, I have to work backwards to even figure out what that means. So maybe there's a connection between more explicit synesthesia and the way Ni makes associations. I wouldn't be very surprised.


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## ruskiix (Sep 28, 2013)

WeirdRaptor28 said:


> I do experience this everyday. Sometimes, I just close my eyes and random imagery start to appear when I'm totally relaxed. Strange thing is that I think my perfect pitch hearing has something to do with it, too. Some of my art is also influenced by the experience. I don't have the words to describe the feeling yet.


If it only happens with eyes closed when relaxed and you ever fall asleep if it gets too deep, get tested for narcolepsy. That sounds like hypnagogic hallucinations--entering REM sleep while partially awake.


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## WeirdRaptor28 (Aug 25, 2014)

ruskiix said:


> If it only happens with eyes closed when relaxed and you ever fall asleep if it gets too deep, get tested for narcolepsy. That sounds like hypnagogic hallucinations--entering REM sleep while partially awake.


I said "sometimes". And I really don't think they're hallucinations, although it would be fascinating if I really were narcoleptic. It's very rare for me to experience what I described. But maybe. I'll look into that.

Also, I haven't really heard of synesthesia until I got here. I probably have chromesthesia, if the Wikipedia article is indeed right.


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## ruskiix (Sep 28, 2013)

WeirdRaptor28 said:


> I said "sometimes". And I really don't think they're hallucinations, although it would be fascinating if I really were narcoleptic. It's very rare for me to experience what I described. But maybe. I'll look into that.
> 
> Also, I haven't really heard of synesthesia until I got here. I probably have chromesthesia, if the Wikipedia article is indeed right.


It isn't a hallucination really. You're literally dreaming. Hallucinations in the typical sense aren't from REM sleep. HH is freaking awesome. I love it and sometimes lay down to encourage it for entertainment. Starts out just the light/dark variations getting more pronounced until it turns to actual pictures, then gradually they get motion and eventually color. Any deeper and sound kicks in (made up songs sometimes) and the picture goes from being like looking at something to being enveloped by it, and from there on I'm unconscious and actually asleep. I've practiced staying conscious as deep into it as possible for fun. But the difference between all of that and hallucinations is that anything that interrupts sleep interrupts the depth of imagery. So, if I have to scratch an itch, it fades out almost completely. Opening my eyes stops it completely. Loud unexpected sounds, someone talking to me. Or thinking too hard about what I'm seeing. If I think actual words to describe it it fades out, so I can't enjoy it too much or it leaves. I think the practice of staying in that state but awake might actually be similar to meditation from what I've read.

People without narcolepsy get HH from severe enough sleep deprivation (or deficit), so that may be why you get it occasionally. My mom recently tried to impress upon me how tired she was by pointing out that she was already dreaming by the end of a half hour nap. I just laughed, because, uh, that's literally the diagnostic criteria for narcolepsy (only they make sure you aren't sleep deprived first).


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## WeirdRaptor28 (Aug 25, 2014)

ruskiix said:


> It isn't a hallucination really. You're literally dreaming. Hallucinations in the typical sense aren't from REM sleep. HH is freaking awesome. I love it and sometimes lay down to encourage it for entertainment. Starts out just the light/dark variations getting more pronounced until it turns to actual pictures, then gradually they get motion and eventually color. Any deeper and sound kicks in (made up songs sometimes) and the picture goes from being like looking at something to being enveloped by it, and from there on I'm unconscious and actually asleep. I've practiced staying conscious as deep into it as possible for fun. But the difference between all of that and hallucinations is that anything that interrupts sleep interrupts the depth of imagery. So, if I have to scratch an itch, it fades out almost completely. Opening my eyes stops it completely. Loud unexpected sounds, someone talking to me. Or thinking too hard about what I'm seeing. If I think actual words to describe it it fades out, so I can't enjoy it too much or it leaves. I think the practice of staying in that state but awake might actually be similar to meditation from what I've read.
> 
> People without narcolepsy get HH from severe enough sleep deprivation (or deficit), so that may be why you get it occasionally. My mom recently tried to impress upon me how tired she was by pointing out that she was already dreaming by the end of a half hour nap. I just laughed, because, uh, that's literally the diagnostic criteria for narcolepsy (only they make sure you aren't sleep deprived first).


Interesting. From what you've described, I'll correct my previous statement. I think that I do experience it more than I care to admit, except I associate it with meditation because I've never heard of HH before this. Probably because I induce them myself these days. I used to experience this more frequently as a child involuntarily, but I guess that has to do with a less focused mind that allowed it to happen at random back then. I only claimed I experience it rarely because I don't need to be totally relaxed for it to happen. Haha.


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## reptilian (Aug 5, 2014)

VS Ramachandran: 3 clues to understanding your brain | Talk Video | TED.com This is good relevant info for this topic.

After around 18min he starts explaining the question of this thread. So weird since I started reading this the same time the video started to lag, which made me look at this topic in the first place, then he starts talking about synesthesia.


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## ruskiix (Sep 28, 2013)

jkp said:


> VS Ramachandran: 3 clues to understanding your brain | Talk Video | TED.com This is good relevant info for this topic.
> 
> After around 18min he starts explaining the question of this thread. So weird since I started reading this the same time the video started to lag, which made me look at this topic in the first place, then he starts talking about synesthesia.


Thanks! I was reading his ideas on synesthesia being related to metaphorical thinking on Wikipedia but the video was better.

My problem with Jung's description of intuition was always that it's treated as mystical and unknowable and I find that silly. This guy touched on how I think of Ni: the abstraction is always based on some information that can potentially be measured, it just isn't obvious how. Like the letter qualities being similar to how those sounds are stimulated. I think it can be very difficult to pinpoint what intuitives are seeing because it is such a reflexive recognition, but it's worth trying to figure out in a lot of cases. Jung's intuition gave us a damn good system. But now I want to see people look into where what he saw actually comes from.


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## ruskiix (Sep 28, 2013)

I've also read before that a lot of people with synesthesia agree that certain letters are the same color, so there's some common information they're all able to see.


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## simonstar (May 10, 2015)

ruskiix said:


> I've also read before that a lot of people with synesthesia agree that certain letters are the same color, so there's some common information they're all able to see.


Really? Once I had two friends with synesthesia who got into this huge argument over which letters were which colors, they didn't agree at all.


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## Lunaena (Nov 16, 2013)

I have a type of synesthesia called ordinal-linguistic personification. It means letters, numbers, months, days of the week etc has their own personalities, personality traits, feelings and so on.

I don't think synesthesia has anything to do with MBTI or functions, to be honest.


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## ruskiix (Sep 28, 2013)

simonstar said:


> Really? Once I had two friends with synesthesia who got into this huge argument over which letters were which colors, they didn't agree at all.


"In one of the most common forms of synesthesia, individual letters of the alphabet and numbers (collectively referred to as graphemes) are "shaded" or "tinged" with a color. While different individuals usually do not report the same colors for all letters and numbers, studies with large numbers of synesthetes find some commonalities across letters (e.g. A is likely to be red).[SUP][14]"
[/SUP]


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## ruskiix (Sep 28, 2013)

Draumande Romvesen said:


> I have a type of synesthesia called ordinal-linguistic personification. It means letters, numbers, months, days of the week etc has their own personalities, personality traits, feelings and so on.
> 
> I don't think synesthesia has anything to do with MBTI or functions, to be honest.


So do you think cognitive functions aren't related to neurology, or just that the mechanism is different? What do you think of the video posted in the previous page of the TED talk, where the guy suggests synesthesia is related to metaphorical thinking?

I'm always surprised when people don't think personality has anything to do with the brain. Don't get me wrong, I imagine sensors can have synesthesia. But I'd expect them to test higher than other sensors in intuition.


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## Lunaena (Nov 16, 2013)

ruskiix said:


> So do you think cognitive functions aren't related to neurology, or just that the mechanism is different? What do you think of the video posted in the previous page of the TED talk, where the guy suggests synesthesia is related to metaphorical thinking?
> 
> I'm always surprised when people don't think personality has anything to do with the brain. Don't get me wrong, I imagine sensors can have synesthesia. But I'd expect them to test higher than other sensors in intuition.


I barely know anything to claim I am the one to make conclusions, but I don't think MBTI itself has anything to do with the brain. Anyone can change themselves into each personality type, in my opinion. People study functions and claim they are hard to change, and yes, I do think a low developed function can be very difficult to develop for some people, but honestly, MBTI is not very scientific.

Personality and the brain has everything to do with each other, but MBTI and personality can be different in my eyes.


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## DogwoodTree (Apr 19, 2015)

I have strong color-grapheme synesthesia. Most letters and all numbers have a color associated with them...always been that way for me. I can actually scan a page for a certain color in order to find a certain letter. My functions from when I tested earlier this week:

Ti-Ne-Ni-Fi-Te-Si-Fe-Se

Funny thing is, my sister apparently sees colors in numbers, too, and when we were kids we would argue over which number had the prettier color. She loved 8 because it was a pretty pink for her, but for me it's a dull orange and I didn't like orange at the time. I don't think we agreed on any of the colors for numbers.


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