# A Place for the Lonely Intellectual



## devoid

I've been wondering... where does a genuine intellectual find friends? I have "friends," but I feel that I have to hide almost every aspect of myself (curiosity, OCD, my love for documentaries and research papers, my intense awareness of trivial details and unique connections...) just so that they feel comfortable talking to me. It is extremely rare that I find someone I can really enjoy talking to without having to hide my true nature, and this makes me very upset. I am not a "nerd," and do not normally get along well with typical nerdy people who obsess over trivial things and are antisocial. I am very social, desire physical proximity and socialization very much, and am myself very good at handling social situations. I just hate this feeling of not belonging. Where do most highly intellectual people find friends or companions?


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## King of Cynics

Real life: Universities? Science Exhibitions? 

Online: Science forums? Philosophy forums?

Pro tip: You won't have much luck finding them here if the average Thread content is any indicator.


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## Arnold

Just a tip, the Diogenes Club will surely help you.


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## Hiside

Bookstores, libraries, school if you're still there...and last but not least the internets...sad I know.


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## Siggy

try meetup.com Put in your location and interests, and you'll get groups that get together that share your interests


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## akaskar

devoid said:


> I've been wondering... where does a genuine intellectual find friends? I have "friends," but I feel that I have to hide almost every aspect of myself (curiosity, OCD, my love for documentaries and research papers, my intense awareness of trivial details and unique connections...) just so that they feel comfortable talking to me. It is extremely rare that I find someone I can really enjoy talking to without having to hide my true nature, and this makes me very upset. I am not a "nerd," and do not normally get along well with typical nerdy people who obsess over trivial things and are antisocial. I am very social, desire physical proximity and socialization very much, and am myself very good at handling social situations. I just hate this feeling of not belonging. Where do most highly intellectual people find friends or companions?


Currently I'm in the exactly same situation. 

BUT! It's because I changed the country I live in. I have a couple of friends (ENTJ and INTP) in the other place I live in. And we do talk to each other on the topics of my and their interest. 

I know that it's harder to find smarter friends, but I think you should try visiting some type of clubs. Such as computer science lectures (I'd say that Computer Science is the most intellectual profession), or Mathematics Competition team (these are really, really smart guys usually_.


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## MegaTuxRacer

akaskar said:


> (I'd say that Computer Science is the most intellectual profession)


What makes you say that?


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## akaskar

MegaTuxRacer said:


> What makes you say that?


Because to program smth you need to think about how would the computer interpret it. You also have to keep in mind that it should not contradict other stuff in the program. And so on. Do you have other candidates for the most intelligent profession?


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## MegaTuxRacer

akaskar said:


> Because to program smth you need to think about how would the computer interpret it. You also have to keep in mind that it should not contradict other stuff in the program. And so on. Do you have other candidates for the most intelligent profession?


Well I thought the sentiment was that it was the most intellectual. I think that STEM fields would have a higher concentration of intellectual types outside of higher education, but to state that computer science is the most intelligent is a bit far to me. I might not have as much experience in computer science and the software development industry as you, so take this with a grain of salt. That said, there are a lot of fields of really smart and intellectual people that have to solve really tough problems. I don't think computer science is the most difficult field. It's just one of many difficult fields that has a lot of overlap. I think that saying software developers, programmers, etc. have a wide breadth of knowledge from different fields--more than others--would be correct due to the nature of applying that particular skill. However, I think that has more to do with experience rather than intelligence or intellectualism.

However I would agree that computer science requires a lot of intellectual thought. I find many concepts elsewhere that help me tremendously with computer science and vise versa.


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## Amalgamate

I don't mean to brag, but I am a fucking genius. And I never leave my house


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## shefa

@devoid ...lets be friends!!!!! I love you people. And I would say I'm very similar to you in that I am not a nerd at all but I love being engaged intellectually. I also have to hide my enthusiasm around certain people, and it's really tough. I feel for you <3 

In my experience, the best way to "find" genuine intellectuals is to first realize that they probably hide among people you already know. They're just not "out" about their NTness in a social context out of fear that intellectual conversations don't belong there. Try to pick up on subtle cues that someone is an NT and engage them in a conversation that is casual and acceptable for whatever social environment you're in, but still possesses subtle philosophical undertones. Gradually, the conversation will become a full blown intellectual exploration of some obscure topic. Trust me, they'll be relieved to see that someone else thinks like them and wants to engage on that level.


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## RecklessInspirer

That's the point. We don't :tongue:
I've been battling with this issue also and I know how sucky it is. There's probably nothing that can be directly done to solve this problem. All you can probably do is talk to different people, somewhat like trial and error.


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## series0

I have the same problem as the OP. I continually re-attempt normal social settings and even among so-called intellectuals find a few disturbing trends, 1) the friend card is full effect, and 2) an alarmingly immediate judgement of superficial and incidental things unrelated to who I am as a person.

These behaviors seem to be on the increase. 

I don't know if baring one's soul in forums like these is taking the place of deep and interesting physically present social interaction, but some dark and sinister force is working against it for sure.


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## EllieBear

shefa said:


> I feel for you <3


Oh dear, you wouldn't believe how much I laughed at that one. That was ... perfect!


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## shefa

EllieBear said:


> Oh dear, you wouldn't believe how much I laughed at that one. That was ... perfect!


Did I make a joke....?

If you're laughing at the fact that I'm a feeler who claims to empathize with a thinker, remember that simply being an intuitive means we share a lot of common ground.


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## EllieBear

shefa said:


> Did I make a joke....?
> 
> If you're laughing at the fact that I'm a feeler who claims to empathize with a thinker, remember that simply being an intuitive means we share a lot of common ground.


No, no. I wasn't trying to be mean. It's probably not that funny but it certainly made me laugh. It wasn't that I don't think you can empathise, not remotely - it was simply the fact you said "I *feel* for you" and you're a feeler... It made me smile... too much it seems.


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## Dove_Eyes

devoid said:


> I've been wondering... where does a genuine intellectual find friends? I have "friends," but I feel that I have to hide almost every aspect of myself (curiosity, OCD, my love for documentaries and research papers, my intense awareness of trivial details and unique connections...) just so that they feel comfortable talking to me. It is extremely rare that I find someone I can really enjoy talking to without having to hide my true nature, and this makes me very upset. I am not a "nerd," and do not normally get along well with typical nerdy people who obsess over trivial things and are antisocial. I am very social, desire physical proximity and socialization very much, and am myself very good at handling social situations. I just hate this feeling of not belonging. Where do most highly intellectual people find friends or companions?


I would be your friend if I knew you in knew you in real life. I find myself having to hold back my true self in order to be more approachable to others (especially females). I wish I knew more girls who were like me and you...I think it would be really nice to feel a little less alien.


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## Dove_Eyes

I really like INFJs and I wish I knew more in the real world. I especially would like to have a female INFJ friend...They may be intuitive feelers but they are still considered one of the "intellectual types" according to MBTI Theory along side the ENTJ, ENTP, INTP, and INTJ.


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## devoid

Dove_Eyes said:


> I would be your friend if I knew you in knew you in real life. I find myself having to hold back my true self in order to be more approachable to others (especially females). I wish I knew more girls who were like me and you...I think it would be really nice to feel a little less alien.


Lol if you're somewhere near PA we can try to meet up and discuss our ENTP-ness.


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## Dove_Eyes

I used to live in PA! lol


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## MPC

most of my friends who stayed in town only meet up to recreationally use drugs which I find boring and a waste of money most times. the dnd types all moved away, but even given that if I stay around a group for a long enough time I begin to feel unwanted and like there's a bad sentiment towards me as far as the group consensus goes, so I'm often in between longing to feel wanted and longing to get away and shut myself in my room. mostly the latter dominates. it also leads me a lot to internet forums and cliques, where I can post without worry and sometimes even get close to people online, sometimes staying in contact for years or in an online group for years. hell, my longest relationship I've ever been in was online because I'll just get detached or put off by the physicality in real life when in one

I'm probably just strange but oh well, better to know it than ignore it and hope it goes away


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## PowerShell

_eric_ said:


> Haha, I live a little east of Madison, and I've very much thought of moving elsewhere at some point for the same reason!


Madison does have its limitations but I do regret moving back to my hometown of Marshfield. Basically go 140 miles north of Madison and that's where I'm at. The sad thing is I go to High Tech Happy Hour and other events in Madison and make that 140 miles drive often times after work and come back 10PM or so (I get done at 2PM) just to find things to do.


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## etranger

Find interesting looking random stranger--bring up random, interesting topic (if <response>=positive, then=continue<conversation>. if <response>=negative, then=run<quickly>).

Coffeeshops? You can usually find one or two clever people there. Especially if it's near a big university. Otherwise--I don't know. Nerd meet-up sounds lame to me. Because how many different ways can we fight about Marvel? 

Sometimes, I hope I'll find some in places where the young nascent policy-wonks and business-people congregate, but still, no dice. 

You know what? You're right, actually, "intellectuals" (smart, critical, etc.) are hard to find. Even among people who try to give off the proper "vibe" (dearest hipster-friends: your thick glasses fool no one, you posers. nor does your agave latte. I mean it. you're almost painfully normal). That's really... depressing. 

I guess it's just luck, really?


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## Playful Proxy

akaskar said:


> Because to program smth you need to think about how would the computer interpret it. You also have to keep in mind that it should not contradict other stuff in the program. And so on. Do you have other candidates for the most intelligent profession?


I'd argue that if we were to pick a top-notch, that astrophysicists likely would be considered more intellectual by a landslide. I'm slowly picking up Java, Python, and various web scripting languages. Astrophysics is one of those things I saw a tiny spec of, turned tail and ran away.


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## azdahak

Signify said:


> I'd argue that if we were to pick a top-notch, that astrophysicists likely would be considered more intellectual by a landslide. I'm slowly picking up Java, Python, and various web scripting languages. Astrophysics is one of those things I saw a tiny spec of, turned tail and ran away.


Computer programming is just playing with Legos. The pieces go together in a certain way, and you're mostly following a plan to build something. Of course there can be creativity involved in conceiving the idea for an app, but the execution of building it is mostly routine. There are standard libraries to do most things. A lot of programmers/IT guys are just the nerd version of a gear head. No real reason to expect them to be intellectuals. 

Computer science, like doing algorithm development, is something else entirely. They're basically like applied mathematicians. They think and do research for their work, so you can probably expect that they think about other abstract things as well, which is a fair description of what it means to be an intellectual. 

If they're excited about their new router, it's a nerd. If they're excited about their new book, it's an intellectual. If they're excited about being seen with a new French poetry book, while they have a C++ book opened to a random page on their computer at Starbucks, it's a poseur.


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## PowerShell

Oh you want some real anti-intellectual gems, go on OkCupid or Plenty of Fish near a small town. It can be depressing but some of these profiles are pure gold for entertainment.


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## azdahak

PowerShell said:


> Oh you want some real anti-intellectual gems, go on OkCupid or Plenty of Fish near a small town. It can be depressing but some of these profiles are pure gold for entertainment.



Anti-intellectuals are easy. Find a church.

Pseudo-intellectuals are fun because you can fuck with them. Find a coffee shop full of hipsters and sell 'em pickles.



Simon Rich's Sell Out, part one of four. : The New Yorker


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## the3rdpower

Usually at work. I work in the tech industry so it is fairly easy to find NT types. They roam the hallways.


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## Doc Dangerstein

You do realize there are intellectual domains outside of science and technology. And, talking about the latest gadget, computer program or Apple product sounds like partaking in a culture of mass consumption rather then intellectual debate. I'm more then happy to cross over to the other side into NF or SP land because they are just different and have equal potential of being smart. I do remember trying to teach myself C++ back in highschool, hated every minute of it, and instead pulled out a novel. Could have even been French. I just can't deal with people who are interested in only one thing, and aren't receptive to learning about something else altogether. Intellectual, but in what way?


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## azdahak

SputnikExperiment said:


> You do realize there are intellectual domains outside of science and technology. And, talking about the latest gadget, computer program or Apple product sounds like partaking in a culture of mass consumption rather then intellectual debate. I'm more then happy to cross over to the other side into NF or SP land because they are just different and have equal potential of being smart. I do remember trying to teach myself C++ back in highschool, hated every minute of it, and instead pulled out a novel. Could have even been French. I just can't deal with people who are interested in only one thing, and aren't receptive to learning about something else altogether. Intellectual, but in what way?


Who says nerds are intellectuals? I have a few smart acquaintances in the IT crowd. They're useful to talk to when I want to nerd out about Star Trek, but they usually don't know about anything that doesn't come with a power cord.

The problem is many of the humanities set are either pseudo-intellectuals or anti-intellectuals. Visit an English or Polysci department if you want to find people who hate to think, but love looking like they do.

The best philosophical discussions I've had have been with NTs, hands down, especially physicists. I have intelligent SJ and NF friends with Ivy Ph.D.s (political philosophy and English literature) who are boring to talk to. They're very dismissive of math and science, even proud that they're somewhat ignorant, which is something I find to be common among the humanities set. They don't seem to understand arguing that isn't purely dialectic. And they're usually better at being ideologues than conservatives. 

English departments are infamous for being bastions of lit-crit PC thuggery. Check out the Alan Sokal hoax.


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## devoid

SputnikExperiment said:


> You do realize there are intellectual domains outside of science and technology. And, talking about the latest gadget, computer program or Apple product sounds like partaking in a culture of mass consumption rather then intellectual debate. I'm more then happy to cross over to the other side into NF or SP land because they are just different and have equal potential of being smart. I do remember trying to teach myself C++ back in highschool, hated every minute of it, and instead pulled out a novel. Could have even been French. I just can't deal with people who are interested in only one thing, and aren't receptive to learning about something else altogether. Intellectual, but in what way?


I'm not very math/tech oriented either. Many of the intellectuals I've admired have been in media/entertainment fields, psychology, art/design, writing, business, etc. Personally I'm an Advertising major, and have met quite a lot of brilliant people in the field. So really, anybody who thinks very deeply on many topics.


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## mathbud

*Genuine intellectuals*



devoid said:


> I've been wondering... where does a genuine intellectual find friends? I have "friends," but I feel that I have to hide almost every aspect of myself (curiosity, OCD, my love for documentaries and research papers, my intense awareness of trivial details and unique connections...) just so that they feel comfortable talking to me. It is extremely rare that I find someone I can really enjoy talking to without having to hide my true nature, and this makes me very upset. I am not a "nerd," and do not normally get along well with typical nerdy people who obsess over trivial things and are antisocial. I am very social, desire physical proximity and socialization very much, and am myself very good at handling social situations. I just hate this feeling of not belonging. Where do most highly intellectual people find friends or companions?


A short answer to your question is, in my view, within yourself. Learn to listen to silence. Learn the connection of the outer and inner worlds. Understand the universe within you. One law to remember is the likes attract and then see through how intellectually you can expose yourself.


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## Emergent

Hello, devoid. I'm about 10 years late responding to your thread about finding intellectual friends. It's a question on my mind, too, and I liked the way you expressed the problem. You weren't just looking for "smart people", nor for nerd culture. It's not about finding people with common interests, but it seems you're questioning where to find other people who have a high 'need for cognition' in daily life. Recreational interests need not be the same, but a shared enjoyment of an analytical, detailed approach to any subject would be welcome in a friend. I may be in the same boat as you-- I'm a generally likeable and social person who often feels lonely because I have to "pull my punches" in conversations. The conversations in most interested in having are met with silence, NOT because my interlocutors are themselves unintelligent but because they usually don't find fascination in the places I do. 

If you've found a solution to finding such friends, or perhaps would like to simul-read a book (Aristotle, perhaps?) with an online friend, I'd definitely be happy to chat sometime. In any case, hope you're doing well


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## thedazzlingdexter

devoid said:


> I've been wondering... where does a genuine intellectual find friends? I have "friends," but I feel that I have to hide almost every aspect of myself (curiosity, OCD, my love for documentaries and research papers, my intense awareness of trivial details and unique connections...) just so that they feel comfortable talking to me. It is extremely rare that I find someone I can really enjoy talking to without having to hide my true nature, and this makes me very upset. I am not a "nerd," and do not normally get along well with typical nerdy people who obsess over trivial things and are antisocial. I am very social, desire physical proximity and socialization very much, and am myself very good at handling social situations. I just hate this feeling of not belonging. Where do most highly intellectual people find friends or companions?


The internet, support groups, activist groups supporting a cuase, charity groups.


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## brinstar1994

Recruit other intellectuals to your group.


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## lww23

It's an old thread but the question raised seems thought-provoking.

*Who is an intellectual?*
_An intellectual is a person who engages in critical thinking, research, and reflection about the reality of society, and who proposes solutions for the normative problems of society. Coming from the world of culture, either as a creator or as a mediator, the intellectual participates in politics, either to defend a concrete proposition or to denounce an injustice, usually by either rejecting or producing or extending an ideology, and by defending a system of values._


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual



*What is the main difference between an intellectual and a well-educated person?*
People tend to treat these concepts as interchangeable. Wrong. There is overlap but major differences exist between an intellectual and a well-educated person. 1. Approach to life. An intellectual tends to be known for their critical attitude. They are skeptical and constantly make evaluations. They don't tend to readily accept a view or a fact, but rather, would first investigate its validity. A well-educated person may or may not be critical. In fact, many might be driven by stability, comfort, and security, and might not be as interested in questioning as the intellectual would. 2. Focus. An intellectual emphasizes knowledge but also creativity (High Openness). They can be seen as more revolutionary than the average well-educated person. Intellectuals are often seen as the driving force for change, as we can see from the definition, they treat change as natural, constant, and normal. An intellectual tends to highly value innovation and creativity and might be intensely interested in creating something new and initiating change. A well-educated person may have a solid base of established knowledge, and can know lots of facts, but may lack creativity and inspiration. 3. Distinctive trait. Related to the previous two, the intellectual tends to be rebellious as default, and sometimes gets into trouble for being too outspoken. This is especially true in non-democracies. Intellectuals are persecuted and ostracized, but the more they are repressed, the more courageous they become. They seek the truth, and persecution does not stop them. Not quite so for the average well-educated person, who tends to be in harmony with the status quo and avoid getting into trouble. They might decide to follow authority or otherwise, but for the intellectual, the authority must constantly be challenged. It is the intellectual that tends to be the common headache of people in power, esp. when they play the role of the whistleblower.

*Socialization for intellectuals*
What is the general purpose for an intellectual to socialize? As discussed above, the intellectual is known for their independence and does not often ask where they belong but cares most about whether they are right and whether they have the truth. A sense of belonging? They do not tend to actively pursue it. An intellectual is less likely going to compromise their own beliefs to please others, or to fit into a group, rather, they tend to be lone wolves. They are not particularly bothered by being alone, although they may be interested in connecting with others.

IMO, an intellectual socializes for intellectual purposes. The goal can be intellectual development, intellectual discussions, finding common intellectual interests, etc. The nature of these connections is - intellectual.

To be a true intellectual, one must enjoy solitude, for it is the best for intellect.

As such, intellectuals often find it hard to make friends in real life. They can be too hard to understand for others, they might be too serious, they might be ignorant of trendy things, and they might be less interested in talking about real-life matters, such as food, etc. The list goes on and on. The Internet, therefore, can serve as the best platform for intellectuals to know one another and develop friendships.

Online communities where you can find many intellectuals (true ones, not the pseudo): e.g., the askphilosophy subreddit, Quora, various professional associations (often require paid membership), intellectual hobby clubs, citizen scientist groups, etc. You are less likely to find intellectuals in nightclubs, bars, or fashion shows.


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## thedazzlingdexter

devoid said:


> I've been wondering... where does a genuine intellectual find friends? I have "friends," but I feel that I have to hide almost every aspect of myself (curiosity, OCD, my love for documentaries and research papers, my intense awareness of trivial details and unique connections...) just so that they feel comfortable talking to me. It is extremely rare that I find someone I can really enjoy talking to without having to hide my true nature, and this makes me very upset. I am not a "nerd," and do not normally get along well with typical nerdy people who obsess over trivial things and are antisocial. I am very social, desire physical proximity and socialization very much, and am myself very good at handling social situations. I just hate this feeling of not belonging. Where do most highly intellectual people find friends or companions?


Anyone who has been in the military is a good start. Overall they tend to be less emotionally driven and more competent as workers.


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## 98403942

By wild chance, and long shot. 

I'm in the same cruise ship, and I wasn't looking for anybody when I found my now wife who is a stellar genius. 

And unlike you, I could never be bothered to 'pull punches'. I don't have time to waste on the braindead. Watching paint dry is more meritorious and rewarding, and I've done plenty of it. 

I mean you're not dead by now or nothing are you?


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