# Should Suicide be Acceptable if You Become a Burden to Others?



## The Great One (Apr 19, 2010)

I would want to kill myself if I was dying of an uncurable terminal illness. But, not just because I was a burden to someone.


----------



## 2GiveMyHeart2 (Jan 2, 2012)

I had some thinking done...as well as something that happened. A mother came to our church's prayer Friday evening because she just found out that day that her son commited suicide by jumping off a bridge, which she needed prayer for. Someone at our prayer meeting also brung up the subject of suicide the day I posted something on here, which wasn't perhaps a good example. I think people do these acts because they feel useless, which was why I chose that poor example. 

According to Christian theology, we consider it to be like murder because God numbers man's days and life is sacred. Mankind is considered to have a soul and we are given the freedom of choice whether to live or not (not necessarily just death, but what is our purpose,) to be used or be useless. Someone brung this up in prayer meeting as to if you repented for doing the act, could you be forgiven? It could be plausible, but that's more of a religious idea and not what we are discussing. 

I consider van Gogh to be my example because he had a purpose, but choosing to die...that seemed odd because he was given a different purpose (he was a minister at first but he had mental problems as well.) I mean life is life and you shouldn't try to escape it because to be blunt--it seems like suicide could be just a cowardly way to escape life no matter how big a burden you are. I had my share of wanting to do it, but I had to keep going forward because things can get better. Finding your purpose. It's just like looking for buried treasure. 

My bottom line is this: murder is murder. Suicide is murder and according to natural law (government) murder is morally wrong.


----------



## NotSoRighteousRob (Jan 1, 2010)

2GiveMyHeart2 said:


> I had some thinking done...as well as something that happened. A mother came to our church's prayer Friday evening because she just found out that day that her son commited suicide by jumping off a bridge, which she needed prayer for. Someone at our prayer meeting also brung up the subject of suicide the day I posted something on here, which wasn't perhaps a good example. I think people do these acts because they feel useless, which was why I chose that poor example.
> 
> According to Christian theology, we consider it to be like murder because God numbers man's days and life is sacred. Mankind is considered to have a soul and we are given the freedom of choice whether to live or not (not necessarily just death, but what is our purpose,) to be used or be useless. Someone brung this up in prayer meeting as to if you repented for doing the act, could you be forgiven? It could be plausible, but that's more of a religious idea and not what we are discussing.
> 
> ...


A valid point, and given your beliefs I can understand your position on the subject. From my own personal perspective I've witnessed acquaintances in the depths of despair from drug addictions self destruct to the point where even though their overdoses may not have been intentional it is likely they were aware they would likely die as a result. In a sense I almost emphasize with these people because society still has not reached a point where there is adequate help for those in these situations. Addiction is still looked upon as a weakness in character and a fault of the person addicted. In my view it is society that has abandoned these people, and pushed them further down the pit of despair by attaching a stigma to them for a problem that is beyond almost everyone's control at the point they were at. 

I know many people overcome various addictions, all of them are difficult and and term of sobriety from any addiction should be applauded as something near miraculous. I do view certain addictions to different substances as having various severity though. over my 10 year span of addiction I am the only person I know who successfully made it out of the pit alive and free. I still do not view the acts taking by those I once called friends as cowardly because to me it is the world that was cowardly in their treatment of these individuals. 

As far as religion goes, my parents were always quick to say they were praying for me, but in regards to any actual assistance, any attempts at talking me into going to rehab or providing a place of shelter they were unavailable. I have no sympathy for those that clasp their hands together and expect prayer to be a substitute for what should be common human decency and support. But I also understand that the family is also a victim in these situations, they feel as helpless as the one suffering from the despair, so they use the tools they feel are best suited to help those they care about.

There is no perfect answer, no universally accepted solution or advise anyone can give to those that are filled with despair. Each individual requires a unique solution to their problem. Some may just need a person to come up and give them a hug and tell them that they do matter and somewhere out there a purpose is waiting for them. Others may need "tough love" where a party takes control and tells them what to do. For me, i had to "nut up or shut up" so to speak. My circumstances were unique because I have always been independent to the point of being unable to ask for help when I needed it the most. This is probably the only thing that gave me the strength to continue despite the fact I did it alone. To date being under 30 I have attended more funerals of my peers than even my grandmother has. And each time I look at the person I once hung out with laying in the coffin a hatred for the rest of the world failing to help these people grows in me. 

It is safe to say these events have warped my views. That the accumulation of my personal experiences have created perspectives not commonly shared amongst others. And probably remains the reason I choose isolation when in my eyes the rest of the world is weak and cowardly. 

But I do not condemn those that fail to understand the situations of others as we often fail to understand the situations of ourselves. 

And now I shall step down from my soapbox. I apologize for any comments construed as offensive, I normally avoid topics that have personal roots as it becomes difficult for me to separate my biases. In my early days of participation I created a thread in similar nature about death in which another person made a flippant remark about how if things were so bad why don't I just kill myself. Needless to say this made me desire to cause bodily harm on that individual as such callous remarks can often be the things that determine whether another human being continues to struggle or finally chooses to give up.


----------



## Glenda Gnome Starr (May 12, 2011)

Thank you for sharing your experiences. I have never been addicted to anything but, when I was in federal prison, I lived with people who were struggling with their addictions. Their stories had a big effect on me and, from them, I learned not to judge others as "weak" because of their addictions.
For sure, our society does not offer enough help so that people can break the chains of addictions. Too many people are in prison, where they do not get much help. I have seen that first hand.


----------



## Oleas (Jul 22, 2010)

I misunderstood the poll question because of the OP... Voted for 'yes' as in it should be acceptable, but I don't think I would wanna die under any circumstances.. other than if I was very ill or my kids' lives depended on it, or something equally extreme.


----------



## TheOperator (Feb 11, 2012)

I chose not to vote in the poll because it should be anybodies "right" to commit suicide whether they are a burden or not.


----------



## MacGuffin (Feb 10, 2012)

Suicide is complex. On the one hand it is easy to accomplish, but there are diminishing returns... 

On a serious note: I doubt that I would ever be able off myself in any circumstance, but when it comes down to it, if things got to the point where I could not go on for some serious reason the fact that it is an option is comforting. To repeat, this is not something I could ever see myself doing, rather its more of a point at which you take a step back and put things into perspective. 

If I was a burden on someone the chances are if I offed myself the burden would be much worse for them psychologically. People have been a burden to me in the past, but I can honestly say that I was getting something from helping them in the form a feeling good about a good deed and all that altruism stuff. Now if that person was suddenly gone I would be haunted for the rest of my life thinking I could have done more. Think of someone you love and think of never being able to look into their eyes again... that to me is a reason to never to take my life for fear of hurting someone else. 

On a lighter note, lets just say that something had happened to me resulting in me being paralyzed, crapping my pants uncontrollably, and not being able to communicate in any form with another human being. Now lets say I was given the opportunity to sell what good organs I had left and they could keep me alive long enough (after the organs had been removed and given to someone in need) for me to be shot into outer space in a rocket to take out a asteroid that would destroy the earth. In that particular case, I would be all about it since I could help a few people and get one hell of a last ride. Only problem is I would have to put this in my will now since I wouldn't be also to agree to the terms after my lack of communication issue... Something I may have to look into


----------



## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

Suicide is acceptable, but I strongly believe that, people that are *able-bodied and free of severe mental/and or physical illness/disability*, make a self-defeating choice when they give up on life in the face of difficulties. It's not about hurting other people (unless they were to leave children behind; in that case, it would be irresponsible). It's just that the act of cutting short the potential of future happiness, peace, comfort and more is what disappoints me. 

I have experienced so much violence, death and witnessed war and suffering at a massive scale. The very least these experiences have taught me is the value of life. It's brutal, but it's also beautiful and so ..so full of potential..power and enigma. It's such a waste when people cut their life short because they gave up in the face of problems that were transient, anyway. Hope is so underrated. I wish people were more hopeful and had more faith in themselves, their potential and the future. 

As for euthanasia (I am simplifying it here), again if someone were severely disabled/terminally ill, of sound mind, and decided without coercion, that they were no longer willing to continue on with a painful torturous existence, there is no reason why their choice shouldn't be honoured.

Personally, I would hate to continue living in extreme and irreversible pain if I were to develop a terminal illness with absolutely no hope of treatment and relief. This is not how I envision my life, and I would want it ended in a painless manner at the earliest. If I were to fall into a PVS, I would want my life to be ended at ONCE. I don't care about how it would affect the few people I love. I have every right to choose the time and manner of my death. I'd rather have the hospital put their resources to better use, by diverting them towards someone whose life can, in fact, be saved..and quality of life restored. I have no interest in people wasting time, resources and emotions on me, if I were reduced to a mere bag of flesh and bones, with no conceivable interest, whatsoever, in continued existence.


----------



## Up and Away (Mar 5, 2011)

No, give them ecstacy as a last resort. Maybe even before imprisonment, since jail in our country is a mind fuck anyway, and doesn't rehabilitate. I mean, they don't get free access to counselors do they?


----------



## amit (Jan 26, 2012)

NO...Never...


----------



## NotSoRighteousRob (Jan 1, 2010)

Souled In said:


> No, give them ecstacy as a last resort. Maybe even before imprisonment, since jail in our country is a mind fuck anyway, and doesn't rehabilitate. I mean, they don't get free access to counselors do they?


yes in a sense they do but you get what they give you when it is available. Still I agree jail and prison do little to rehabilitate anyone, generally it makes the situation much worse. When you treat people like animals you can expect them to act like one. 

Its funny but I agree with your idea of drugging the person. Opiates are amazingly effective in treating multiple psychological problems. They may be one of the most effective chemical compounds that exists for treating such a variety of illnesses that can lead to depression. This is in part one of the problems with the class of drugs. People feel so good they rarely want to stop taking them. 
Ecstasy is effective for treating certain psychological illnesses and last I checked was still allowed as a treatment in therapy in certain European countries. It isn't however very good for pain, but for anti-social behaviors and other emotional problems it has been proven effective when used in a controlled setting.


----------



## Ntuitive (Jan 6, 2012)

Why the fuck did people vote yes. Suicide is terrible.


----------



## NotSoRighteousRob (Jan 1, 2010)

Ntuitive said:


> Why the fuck did people vote yes. Suicide is terrible.


Because reality is all a matter of perception. You perceive suicide to be terrible, why is that? I see it as hastening something that is already bound to occur. We are all going to die, right now people are dying as I type this. What makes suicide so horrible when in reality at some point we will all end up in the same place.

In case you are one of the people who worry about those left behind I will say this much in regards to the matter. 

If you care about someone and they are suffering from whatever reason, be it pain or psychological illness do you want to watch them suffer just so they can continue to exist for your benefit? 

I view people with children as different though, I believe once you have created a life you are committed to taking care of it regardless of most psychological problems. The only time I believe it would be acceptable to kill oneself despite having children is when the mental illness poses a greater threat than their death. Really if a parent is a threat the physical and psychological development of a child they shouldn't even be allowed children but that is a topic for a different discussion. 

If there is nobody that depends on you and a person is at piece with accelerating what is already destined to happen the best thing anyone who cares can do is not force them to continue to live in misery.

It is true that things could always change. And at some point I could start caring what others thought of me one day. However humans do not live long enough generally for either of these things to take place. This is of course situational, killing oneself over their girlfriend breaking up with them is ridiculous, but at the same time I don't think we need more people like that inhabiting the earth anyways.

At some point it can be the most logical decision when it comes to death.


----------



## Sai (Sep 3, 2012)




----------



## fihe (Aug 30, 2012)

I always tell my family that if I were to contract a terminal illness or be involved in a bad accident that I would just want to die and not receive treatment. I wouldn't want them to carry the burden of having to pay so much money for my hospitalization and spend a lot of time helping to treat my illness or injuries.

I don't value my life that much because I measure people's merit by how useful they are to society, and what the hell am I doing that's so damn useful? I spent five years and almost $100,000 on college, yet I'm still working in a retail store. I'm approaching my 3-year anniversary there yet I don't have any position of great importance. I'm also a substitute teacher. I could very easily be replaced at both of my jobs. any people who care about me would eventually get over my death anyway.

yet today I delayed my death by another year or so by getting a flu shot. Lol.


----------



## Lackjester (Aug 16, 2011)

You can kill/die through hypoxia painlessly; I think everyone in their right mind should be given that option. There's a documentary on this:


----------



## chip (Oct 12, 2011)

Lackjester said:


> You can kill/die through hypoxia painlessly; I think everyone in their right mind should be given that option. There's a documentary on this:


o........................o


----------



## Wellsy (Oct 24, 2011)

Voluntary suicide because of burdening others.
I think there'd need to be an ethical process to minimize the potential for just allowing people to off themselves because they're in a shit state of mind. Some people lose their legs or something and become suicidal and self abuse, would we let those kinds of people kill themselves even though they can still have a fulfilling life as seen with many people in wheelchairs.
Now if someone is a vegetable, even then I reckon there would need to be a consultation with the family, a team of professionals, really the whole process if it existed would be lengthy in my mind.
Ethics even in circumstances where they don't make sense still apply, like if a person needs help but is in a poor state, if they refuse help you can't help them, by law a person has to accept help from you otherwise you're breaking their rights.
This seems silly for schizophrenics who are on the streets and such.

I guess it makes more sense when a person is only on life support and isn't awake, but even then while in a coma have to weigh up things like the family's thoughts and the professional opinion. Then theres the hippocratic oath though I don't know the exact words of the oath I got the impression it pretty much summed up each medical professionals requirement to help sustain life to anybody, that they have no right to choose who lives or dies, they must do their best to do what they can for every person who needs their medical assistance.

It's a very dicey area because suicide is generally viewed as a bad thing and say a person suffers from severe depression, we don't say oh they're broken we're going to let them die, they are provided the different treatments available to try and relieve the person of their mental anguish. The hell that people live through certainly seems to get relief from not living anymore but sometimes theres other options to improve their situation.


----------



## OldManRivers (Mar 22, 2012)

skycloud86 said:


> If someone was terminally ill or otherwise severely ill/disabled, and they were of sound mind, and if they were determined to end their life with dignity, and if they consented to it with no pressure from anyone else, then yes, euthanasia should be acceptable.


Dignity? when death comes, the spincter relaxes and the bowells empty. Someone has to clean up that pile of crap off the deceased, get everything taken care of, close the eyes, bind up the jaw so the mouth will not gape open - corpses do not look like dignified human beings, they are grotesque. Death with dignity is a mantra for those wanting other people - not themselves, I do not think, to off themselves. There is no dignity - it is the end of dignity as a human being.

Bone cancer patients do not get relief from pain. A compassionate doctor will provide, one way or the other, morphine enough to alleviate pain, without too much consideration of lethal dose. I have seen this in hospice work.
There is no death with dignity, but there is a death of compassion and mercy.


----------



## KneeSeekerArrow (Jan 8, 2012)

Suicide is ALWAYS acceptable.


----------



## OldManRivers (Mar 22, 2012)

AphroditeGoneAwry said:


> This is a very interesting subject to me. I think there are many facets to it and I will use this thread to try to discern and categorize my thoughts regarding it. I just feel like exploring it right here, right now, so I thank you for allowing me to do that.
> 
> ............................................
> 
> ...


_

Extremely profound thoughts, well presented. This is the best statement of this matter I have seen.
I had a midlife career to social work. I took a course in graduate school on the law and social work: my class thesis was on the state right to die law. That was regarded almost universally as an intrusion into a matter that had been handled well by family and clergy.

I interned with hospice one year, worked off and on as a volunteer. The dying process you described - beautifully done. Our chaplin called the deathbed and surroundings Holy Ground. I did a 3/12 hour life review with a patient, his having been told by his doctor he would be dead in a week, when he was led to believe by his family he was getting well. He was angry, frightened, and I sat on his bedside and asked, May I hold your hand. He gripped me the entie time - I started with his enlistment into the Navy - a a cook, Black enlistees worked as stewards on in the boiler room tending the boilers - and finished by affirming his life, his service to his family and to his God. He then called the family in and said they were waiting for him, and he had to go. A simple goodbye, and he awas gone. This Holy Ground cannot be profaned by euthanasia.

I was called to a client's house - two elderly women, suspicious at the start, but taking me into their hearts -the call was that the patient had died while the nurse was there. She asked ne to tell her sister - The sister had explained that their customs was to loudly and briefly lament the passing when told, and"Don't be surprised - I have to let it out."
I knelt by her, put my arn around her shoulder, and said softly. Miz xxx, your sister YYY is with Jesus. She wailed, and then told me two neighbors to go and tell. I did, and within 15 minutes everything was done.

Was she a "burden?" Of course. So is a tiny baby, a convalesing surgery patient, a disabled war vet. But these people give as much as they take. We thrive on love. Without it, we perish. 

I abridged this post so it does not take so much space. I have copied it for my own reading over again.


Again, @AphroditeGoneAwry, many thanks._


----------



## Konigsberg (May 10, 2012)

Hating yourself because of the people you're surrounded with should become a reason to abandon them, not abandon your own life.

Besides, just _because_ you think someone hates you/is bothered by you doesn't mean they actually do. Our perception of others' perception about us is pretty messed up specially while depressed. 

Suicide has never made too much sense to me, mostly because I believe there's only one life and this is it. I just don't understand the sense on giving up.

But of course I've never been in an extreme situation. 

However, my girlfriend has. 

She never gave up and then she met me, and I'll make her feel damn worthy until I'm sure she's sure about it.

People go through different situations that are very similar at the core. The motivation the own person gives themselves is the only difference. Not the level of suffering or sadness, but the persons' decisions.

And that's something nobody else but their own selves can change *shrug*


----------



## Sollertis (Aug 2, 2012)

Suicide should _always _be acceptable regardless of circumstance, if someone decides their life is not worth living anymore, who is anyone else to tell them otherwise? That said, I wouldn't commit suicide, I like being alive too much.


----------



## chip (Oct 12, 2011)

I went to the hospital once for just mentioning I wanted to kill myself. The paramedics radioed the dispatch saying "Suicide" I was like...what the fuck? I didn't say I was going to, I said I wanted to, I FELT like it. I know it's serious but some people just threaten. They pumped me full of ativan and ignored me for three days. I went home feeling suicidal lying about being rational. I got through it, though but the way they treated me....fuck, it was cruel. You don't treat a suicidal person like shit, you treat them gently, they are very very fragile. 

To suffer through agonizing mental pain...I wish that on no one. I would rather see someone get help in a healthy manner instead of seeing them die and at the same time I don't like knowing that people are suffering right now as I type this, feeling so alone and not connected to anyone. I know how this feels. It's so terrifying.


----------



## Bricolage (Jul 29, 2012)

The general aversion to suicide is ingrained in the human composite, which pedestals self-preservation. Taking this political view of atomism, which most democracy theoretically and partly resembles, suicide will never be fully socially acceptable or politically correct. Monotheistic dogma also fucks up rational dealings with suicide. There's always something recklessly daring and unimaginably gloomy about this faux pas of nixing oneself in society's eyes. I have no problem with suicide from an ethical standpoint - I feel suicide is an adequate and understandable response to a circumstance in which pain rudely outweighs pleasure or the fear of death. I'm all for therapy but when it's time, it's time. I have actually talked people down from the edge and a good friend in high school offed himself, so please don't interpret this statement as glib or unsympathetic. I just feel some folks get dealt a wretched hand and therefore the rest of us shouldn't too quickly or harshly judge. Help is OK though. I guess the trick is to balance help with respect for another's autonomy.


----------



## friendly80sfan (May 12, 2011)

I would never prematurely end my life. I know my friends and family and I know that my death would be more of a burden than them having to take care of me. It would be hard and I would try to keep a good attitude because then at least while they took care of me, I wouldn't make them feel sad. I trust that God will take me when it is my time to go.


----------



## Bricolage (Jul 29, 2012)

friendly80sfan said:


> I would never prematurely end my life. I know my friends and family and I know that my death would be more of a burden than them having to take care of me. It would be hard and I would try to keep a good attitude because then at least while they took care of me, I wouldn't make them feel sad. I trust that God will take me when it is my time to go.


Prove god. Anyway, until you've felt an extraordinary amount of pain you really can't proffer that opening claim.


----------



## Nekomata (May 26, 2012)

Sure, so long as no one would get upset because of it. In the long run it's up to each individual whether they want to die or not, acceptable or not - I don't think it's against the law anyway, simply frowned upon.


----------



## RainyAutumnTwilight (Sep 28, 2012)

I think that the world needs everybody and if someone is a "burden" that they teach us to think of others before ourselves. Suicide should never ever be an option.


----------

