# Haha?



## Jeffrei (Aug 23, 2016)

Are people on the enneagram forum more serious than people on the Myers Briggs types forum? I don't seem to see many light hearted/funny threads on the enneagram forum.


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## enneathusiast (Dec 15, 2012)

Are you sure you're not a mistyped 7?


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## Jeffrei (Aug 23, 2016)

enneathusiast said:


> Are you sure you're not a mistyped 7?


Yes, I have done some reading on type seven and there are several things I can't relate to.

For instance...

7's fear of "being deprived or trapped in pain"

7's basic desire being "the desire to be happy"

7's "passion" (deadly sin) being gluttony

Are three things that I don't really relate to. I mean sure I relate to them to an extent (because we have some of all nine types in us), but I relate much more to type 5.

I appreacate your suggestion though.

This description from the enneagram institute is one that I relate to extremely well. "John, a graphic artist, describes this approach to life.

“Being a Five means always needing to learn, to take in information about the world. A day without learning is like a day without ‘sunshine.’ As a Five, I want to have an understanding of life. I like having a theoretical explanation about why things happen as they do. This understanding makes me feel in charge and in control. I most often learn from a distance as an observer and not a participant. Sometimes, it seems that understanding life is as good as living it. It is a difficult journey to learn that life must be lived and not just studied.”"


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## Stellafera (Jan 19, 2015)

Think it's a combination of

1. Enneagram isn't as popular as MBTI, so people who know about it usually have some sort of serious interest in personality type theory rather than just playful curiosity.

2. MBTI is more light-hearted, frankly. It doesn't pass judgement, it just says "you think like X, pretty neat huh". Enneagram is a lot heavier of a system, focusing around people's biggest roadblocks in life and the skeleton structures of their major dilemmas. People are going to be more cagey when making jokes about that. _Good_ enneagram jokes are likely to be kinda... dark. Which doesn't fly with everyone.


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## Jeffrei (Aug 23, 2016)

Stellafera said:


> Think it's a combination of
> 
> 1. Enneagram isn't as popular as MBTI, so people who know about it usually have some sort of serious interest in personality type theory rather than just playful curiosity.
> 
> 2. MBTI is more light-hearted, frankly. It doesn't pass judgement, it just says "you think like X, pretty neat huh". Enneagram is a lot heavier of a system, focusing around people's biggest roadblocks in life and the skeleton structures of their major dilemmas. People are going to be more cagey when making jokes about that. _Good_ enneagram jokes are likely to be kinda... dark. Which doesn't fly with everyone.


I suppose that makes sense. I guess I'm just surprised to see a bunch of people taking something seriously with out even cracking an ocassional joke.


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## Dangerose (Sep 30, 2014)

Jonneh said:


> Yes, I have done some reading on type seven and there are several things I can't relate to.


For the record I think a lot of 7s might not relate to these at first glance or they might not be seem though...these are core enough things that not relating at all might be a pretty good sign of not being a 7



> For instance...
> 
> 7's fear of "being deprived or trapped in pain"


Worth noting that a lot of 7s can indulge in pain (or even deprivation, line to 1) but it's still an indulgence, a shield from the vast arid desert that is their line to 5...

From Anne of Green Gables:

"Well, that is another hope gone. 'My life is a perfect graveyard of buried hopes'. That's a sentence I read in a book once, and I say it over to comfort myself whenever I'm disappointed in anything."
"I don't see where the comforting comes in myself," said Marilla.
"Why, because it sounds so nice and romantic, just as if I were a heroine in a book, you know? I am so fond of romantic things, and a graveyard full of buried hopes is about as romantic a thing as one can imagine, isn't it? I'm rather glad I have one."



> 7's basic desire being "the desire to be happy"


This...yeah, this is 7 through and through

I will say on my part as a 2 with a pretty strong 7 fix and a triple-positive tritype that I have never identified with the desire to be happy, perhaps on purely philosophical grounds, and it even surprises me in myself when I see it.



> 7's "passion" (deadly sin) being gluttony


Just make sure you're looking at 7-specific gluttony which is often more mental than anything

I particularly really like this scene to illustrate it, I think it's a good example






_Oh, you like to think you're a god. You're not a god, you're just a parasite, eaten out with jealousy and envy and longing for the lives of other. You feed on them, on the memory of love and loss and birth and death and joy and sorrow! _





> “Being a Five means always needing to learn, to take in information about the world. A day without learning is like a day without ‘sunshine.’ As a Five, I want to have an understanding of life. I like having a theoretical explanation about why things happen as they do. This understanding makes me feel in charge and in control. I most often learn from a distance as an observer and not a participant. Sometimes, it seems that understanding life is as good as living it. It is a difficult journey to learn that life must be lived and not just studied.”"


For the record, as someone with 5 nowhere near my tritype, I can relate to this through 7 and maybe something else; note that I'm not a real 7 but...

'a day without learning is like a day without sunshine' - This I relate to, but it's based on the fear of missing out, of running out of time, of leaving songs unsung and wines untasted, of not experiencing life fully - rather than something like a barricade or a castle to shut out life. My fear is to stagnate, to die before having understood everything, before having heard all the stories - and also, not to have something to distract me from the barren expanse...if my mind isn't busy, it's halfway in the grave. One 7 description has 7s as jumping from oasis to oasis, but maybe you can imagine someone in the middle of a desert holding some sort of magical prism that shows mirages in the air...if for a moment the prism slips, then all that's left is desert.

5 by contrast lives in the desert by choice.










And...since 7 thinks that it can pretend that it's mirages are reality, it doesn't need real life, it doesn't need to really engage, and risk the pain and loss and sacrifice and _reality_ that comes from that. 7 needs to engage and participate but it is as afraid to as 5, only it does a better job of convincing itself that it already is.

(I mean...why would 7 need to... feed on the memory of love and loss and birth and death and joy and sorrow...if it had these things already? It doesn't have them...its like a kid who's eaten so much candy that he feels sick, but instead of having a real meal he takes a piece of cake...or an alcoholic who needs a real meal more than anything but spends his last dollar on beer...the sustenance isn't there, just the thing that promises to take away the pain or to provide magic and joy...)


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## Jeffrei (Aug 23, 2016)

Dr. Who and Anne of Green Gables? This is my favorite post ever now! I was actually just watching "Anne With an E" yesterday. It's not even close to as good as the movie imo. XD



The Night's Queen said:


> Worth noting that a lot of 7s can indulge in pain (or even deprivation, line to 1) but it's still an indulgence, a shield from the vast arid desert that is their line to 5...


Um, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't being in pain part of the 7's fear? Being happy may not be my basic motivation but I do still very much prefer it over sorrow.



The Night's Queen said:


> From Anne of Green Gables:
> 
> "Well, that is another hope gone. 'My life is a perfect graveyard of buried hopes'. That's a sentence I read in a book once, and I say it over to comfort myself whenever I'm disappointed in anything."
> "I don't see where the comforting comes in myself," said Marilla.
> "Why, because it sounds so nice and romantic, just as if I were a heroine in a book, you know? I am so fond of romantic things, and a graveyard full of buried hopes is about as romantic a thing as one can imagine, isn't it? I'm rather glad I have one."


"fiddle sticks"



The Night's Queen said:


> I will say on my part as a 2 with a pretty strong 7 fix and a triple-positive tritype that I have never identified with the desire to be happy, perhaps on purely philosophical grounds, and it even surprises me in myself when I see it.


Well... that could have something to do with you being a 2 and not a 7... Your basic desire is kind of different after all.



The Night's Queen said:


> Just make sure you're looking at 7-specific gluttony which is often more mental than anything


That sounds kind of hard to look at...



The Night's Queen said:


> I particularly really like this scene to illustrate it, I think it's a good example
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:O *Matt Smith!!!* <3 *clears throat* Please continue.



The Night's Queen said:


> For the record, as someone with 5 nowhere near my tritype, I can relate to this through 7 and maybe something else; note that I'm not a real 7 but...
> 
> 'a day without learning is like a day without sunshine' - This I relate to, but it's based on the fear of missing out, of running out of time, of leaving songs unsung and wines untasted, of not experiencing life fully - rather than something like a barricade or a castle to shut out life. My fear is to stagnate, to die before having understood everything, before having heard all the stories - and also, not to have something to distract me from the barren expanse...if my mind isn't busy, it's halfway in the grave. One 7 description has 7s as jumping from oasis to oasis, but maybe you can imagine someone in the middle of a desert holding some sort of magical prism that shows mirages in the air...if for a moment the prism slips, then all that's left is desert.


Well I don't share that fear of missing out. It is completely illogical to think that one has enough time for everything and in a mad dash to try as much as you can you are prone to more mistakes. Also, there are just some things that I'd rather miss out on. In contrast with the above, I collect knowledge in order to miss out. I want to collect what is needed to avoid making mistakes and to get it right the first time. For instance... I've been single all my life. I've had several opportunities to get into a relationship but I've avoided them all. I'm still learning about how to do the whole dating thing the right way, and I don't intend to start before I feel ready. Not to mention that I've friend zoned my whole state and have yet to find someone remotely interesting but that's a sob story for another time. 

What about the rest of it? “Being a Five means always needing to learn, to take in information about the world. [...] As a Five, I want to have an understanding of life. I like having a theoretical explanation about why things happen as they do. This understanding makes me feel in charge and in control. I most often learn from a distance as an observer and not a participant. Sometimes, it seems that understanding life is as good as living it. It is a difficult journey to learn that life must be lived and not just studied.”"



The Night's Queen said:


> And...since 7 thinks that it can pretend that it's mirages are reality, it doesn't need real life, it doesn't need to really engage, and risk the pain and loss and sacrifice and _reality_ that comes from that. 7 needs to engage and participate but it is as afraid to as 5, only it does a better job of convincing itself that it already is.


Heh, so seven is the same as five but with different motivations? That's interesting.



The Night's Queen said:


> (I mean...why would 7 need to... feed on the memory of love and loss and birth and death and joy and sorrow...if it had these things already? It doesn't have them...its like a kid who's eaten so much candy that he feels sick, but instead of having a real meal he takes a piece of cake...or an alcoholic who needs a real meal more than anything but spends his last dollar on beer...the sustenance isn't there, just the thing that promises to take away the pain or to provide magic and joy...)


Wait wait wait wait wait.... Lets back track a bit.


The Night's Queen said:


> (I mean...why would 7 need to... feed on the memory of love and loss and birth and death and joy and sorrow...if it had these things already? It doesn't have them...


 How does a seven not have these things already? They are an unavoidable part of life. Granted, everyones joys and sorrows will be different, but 7s aren't the Borg. They have their own flesh and blood.

Well. I think I may actually relate less to seven now. That was a fun talk though! Very educational. We should do that again some time.


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## Manuscript (Feb 12, 2017)

Closer to the original topic of this thread, I like the board culture in the Enneagram section best. The lower amount of spam (arguably fun, but whatever) plays a part, although it's also that MBTI deals with issues which I believe I understand better and therefore feel less of an impetus to learn more about. I think the MBTI section is a little more stereotype-driven as well.


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## Jeffrei (Aug 23, 2016)

Manuscript said:


> Closer to the original topic of this thread, I like the board culture in the Enneagram section best. The lower amount of spam (arguably fun, but whatever) plays a part, although it's also that MBTI deals with issues which I believe I understand better and therefore feel less of an impetus to learn more about. I think the MBTI section is a little more stereotype-driven as well.


Yeah, just a bit. It's like 80% of the Myers Briggs community is stereotypes. By the way, did you know that if you include a random percentage in your statement the average person is 90% more likely to believe you?


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## brightflashes (Oct 27, 2015)

I have definitely noticed a big difference between the Enneagram forum and the MBTi forum. It seems that there is more hostility on the Enneagram forum. Also, I've noticed that - for some reason - more people on the Enneagram forum outwardly speak about their religion than on the MBTi forum. Maybe not in the forum itself, but in their profiles. I have found that the Enneagram forum isn't as nice to new members or established members who haven't been posting much on the Enneagram forum.

Also, there's this strange mistrust going on here on the outer layers of the forum (not so much in the type subforums). For me, it's intriguing and something to study and puzzle out in my mind. But I hate to be the subject of it. I actually closed my first "type me" thread because it got so out of control with what seemed to be hostility that my partner started to come in and defend me which wasn't going to go anywhere good. To boot, having the type me thread closed because it was bothering me so much just fueled people's justification that I wasn't a 5 even more. Whatevs. I think my partner actually might have something worthwhile to add to your thread, though. So I'll call him in. @hornpipe2 I'm sure you have stuff to say about MBTi forums vs Enneagram forums.


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## hornpipe2 (Nov 3, 2015)

What's funny to me about this is that there was a thread going around recently about how to improve the "outreach" of the Enneagram forum, and how to get more people on board with using Enneagram as much as they do the MBTI portion of the site.

Every time I see some member actively driving people away through hostile second-guessing or typing based on vague impressions, I think back to that post, and that probably the best solution would be to simply ban a few long-time troll members from here.


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## brightflashes (Oct 27, 2015)

For example, that was such a 5 thing to say, @hornpipe2 , that you couldn't be a 5.


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## hornpipe2 (Nov 3, 2015)

enneathusiast said:


> Are you sure you're not a mistyped 7?


Are you sure you've read the Forum Rules about "unsolicited typing"?


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## brightflashes (Oct 27, 2015)

Another thought about this subject is that MBTi can be measured scientifically. It is considered a valid method for research into personality in the U.S., for example. The APA acknowledges the scientific validity and reliability of MBTI (although, to be fair, the APA also publishes research that criticises MBTi as well). However, the Enneagram doesn't have a foundation in scientific theory. It was born from the recognition of wisdom that comes from a symbol which has been around for thousands of years. Much of the knowledge of this symbol is lost due to oral tradition and secrecy. It has only been used as a way to analyze personality for less than 100 years, but has largely been a religious symbol. 

One who is attempting any sort of reasonable, logical talk about Enneagram is going to basically sound less logical and reasonable because they do not have any "solid" scientific bases for their declarations. So, while Enneagram isn't by any means untrue or "wrong" because it's not based in science, it is something that sounds a bit fanatical when a person can't really anchor it down. I have noticed that those who are very invested in Enneagram - and their type - tend to sound irrational and childish when defending it. I don't know whether that's a reflection of the people themselves or the holes in the theory, though.

However, this thought is heavily heavily informed by the way I observe people and theories and may only be a brightflashes thing and not a general consensus thing.


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## Paradigm (Feb 16, 2010)

I find the idea there's hostility is interesting. There's certainly some here, but I think it might be more noticeable simply because the "population" is lower. In MBTI forums you got the numbers to drown half of it out; here, we have the _lack_ of numbers to make it noticeable.

I also think the "seriousness" (as per the thread title, which is... a meh term) of Enneagram is more inclined to serious posts, and to over-identification of type, which means that anyone who is being straight-forward and "not polite" gets interpreted as "hostile" or "defensive," when in reality it's simply being plain-spoken. Apparently many people* will interpret it this way if you don't heavily couch your words in flowery prose.
*No one in this thread, don't worry.

The lack of type diversity may be another factor, in both mistypes and in the fact there's only 9 (vs 16) to choose from (disregarding variants and tritype).

As for lack of jokes, I appreciate the candor and seriousness here, personally. I think the "jokes" over at the MBTI forums are either spam or perpetuating of stereotypes, and I have no interest whatsoever in either. The CF forums are more my style in comparison to the MBTI ones, but otherwise I hate the topics over there because they rarely discuss anything of use, nor further understanding of the system as a whole. If they _did_ discuss useful things in the process, that would be another story.

_Mostly,_ though, I suspect the topics over here just don't lend themselves to jokes (ie personal details about life you'd be an asshole to joke about unless the OP did already).


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## brightflashes (Oct 27, 2015)

@Paradigm

While hostility might be a strong word, I don't know a better substitute for it. I have had members follow me around this forum and I'm observing it right now with @Jonneh as well. There's one member who appears to be going to every one of his threads just to tell him he's mistyped as a 7 when I'm not seeing @Jonneh asking here. What would you call that, if not hostile? 

I'm just wondering how one can spin this in a way where this isn't considered hostility. Yes, Jonneh asked on a specific thread for it, but now that he has asked in the appropriate place, people are starting to follow him all over the Enneagram board to invalidate just about everything Jonneh is trying to learn about himself. It seems that the conversation should be limited to that thread itself. Just look at how many "thanks" people have given a member here on this thread for blatantly disregarding forum rules. There is clearly a problem with the way the members here interpret the forum rules, if anything else.

(I do appreciate your perspective, though)

(Oh, and my appeal for what the right word would be isn't necessarily to you specifically, it's to anyone reading. I know I should really work on wording but I don't have the energy to most of the time).


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## Tamehagane (Sep 2, 2014)

That's about the best I can do for an Enneagram joke. :laughing:

Enneagram is a complex system, and I think just about every person has valuable insight into their own type simply by virtue of living every day as themselves. 

By contrast, I sometimes get the feeling that other INTPs and I have little in common aside from having the same cognitive process. In the course of our forum interactions, we're adding very little to anyone's understanding of the MBTI, aside from the specific scenarios and life advice. So instead we spend our time trolling each other for the lulz. C'est la vie.


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## Paradigm (Feb 16, 2010)

brightflashes said:


> @Paradigm
> 
> While hostility might be a strong word, I don't know a better substitute for it. I have had members follow me around this forum and I'm observing it right now with @Jonneh as well. There's one member who appears to be going to every one of his threads just to tell him he's mistyped as a 7 when I'm not seeing @Jonneh asking here. What would you call that, if not hostile?
> 
> ...


Oh, I didn't mean to dismiss the fact there _is_ hostility. I've known a couple of friends who were subject to it themselves. That's largely why the rule is in place! It happens. I was trying to (and may have failed) to speak in a more broad context, though. I do kinda wonder if my "numbers" thing has merit, though...

FWIW I sincerely believe that anyone who feels like they're being harassed should report it to the mods. You or Jonneh or anyone, the best thing you can do is report (sometimes it's best to do so directly by PMing a mod) and/or put people on your ignore list. I prefer the upfront method half the time, to point out that they're being jerks: "You're going on my ignore list because you won't take no for an answer" or something.


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## Jeffrei (Aug 23, 2016)

brightflashes said:


> @Paradigm
> 
> While hostility might be a strong word, I don't know a better substitute for it. I have had members follow me around this forum and I'm observing it right now with @Jonneh as well. There's one member who appears to be going to every one of his threads just to tell him he's mistyped as a 7 when I'm not seeing @Jonneh asking here. What would you call that, if not hostile?
> 
> ...


I didn't even notice it's the same guy. XD

I'm beginning to wonder if enneagram's openness to interpretation is what is generating some of these "hostilities" and blatant breaking of the rules. After all, if someone has their own theory that they've been working on for a while I doubt they'd be happy to find someone that contradicts it.



Paradigm said:


> Oh, I didn't mean to dismiss the fact there _is_ hostility. I've known a couple of friends who were subject to it themselves. That's largely why the rule is in place! It happens. I was trying to (and may have failed) to speak in a more broad context, though. I do kinda wonder if my "numbers" thing has merit, though...
> 
> FWIW I sincerely believe that anyone who feels like they're being harassed should report it to the mods. You or Jonneh or anyone, the best thing you can do is report (sometimes it's best to do so directly by PMing a mod) and/or put people on your ignore list. I prefer the upfront method half the time, to point out that they're being jerks: "You're going on my ignore list because you won't take no for an answer" or something.


Im not sure it's bothering me enough to merit serious action (just yet). It does help me practice patience. That's for sure.


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## brightflashes (Oct 27, 2015)

Jonneh said:


> After all, if someone has their own theory that they've been working on for a while I doubt they'd be happy to find someone that contradicts it.


Exactly! And that theory is going to be informed mostly by a much more vague way of theoretical understanding than one that has a scientific foundation. There isn't any outside means for standardization of what terms mean and what measures point to whichever types. The ones that are mostly agreed upon are also life experiences that, for most people, they wouldn't be talking about openly on a forum about (though I can see why one might be more comfortable talking about their private stuff on a forum rather than face to face). 

The defense of these personal styles of typing, interpreting, etc... the Enneagram can look like a child clinging to a favorite toy or a person insisting that because they "feel" something, it must be true only because there isn't a system that everyone can agree on first. Their ideas and reasonings may be entirely sound, but without substantiation and references, it appears somehow less solid (at least to me).


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