# How Do You View Bases of Your PoLR?



## Kanerou (Oct 8, 2009)

I haven't noticed that many problems with Ne-base types. I've conflicted with a few ILEs/self-typed ILEs, but I get along fine with others, and I seem to do just fine with IEEs. If I were to conflict with the latter, I suspect it would be because they see me as overly closeminded to other points of view or too harsh to offenders.


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## Scelerat (Oct 21, 2012)

I may be weird, but I largely don't notice Si. I know that when I have to deal with Si dom/aux users it annoys the crap out of me in the same way that it used to when my brother would stand next to me going "Hi" every 5 seconds. It's not so much that I "hate" it as I see it as a fundamental waste of time and effort. The definition of Sisyphean labor. 

Now, being in job where the entire system is designed according to an Si-base style of thinking on the other hand is a bloody problem. 

Every day at my house growing up:
Mom: Make your bed.
Me: Why, I'm going to get back into it in like 10 - 14 hours and being made or not does not influence how well I sleep in it. 

Dad: Clean your car. 
Me: Why? I'm just going to have to do it again. 

Every once in a while I'll have a 3 hour burst or something, where I'll clean my whole house like I spent the weekend dismembering hookers and now I have the police force coming over for drinks but most of the time it doesn't register.


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

Fi base types make up a nice proportion of my friends and problems with them tend to be minimal. However, when my sister and I do get into conflicts I tend to bulldoze over her feelings and attempts to level the psychological playing field. I also had a relationship with an ESI that started off really good but then turned sour towards the end.


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## zinnia (Jul 22, 2013)

Blue Flare said:


> Dunno, but I feel such kind of pressure on a regular basis as something latent, specially as where I live people tends to be rather good at sugarcoating their words, and to be honest this society where I live tends to expect a Fe like response from women, so when you rely on Te instead it's like you're such a weirdo or a social inept person that I feel rather annoyed, even if I don't express that reaction openly. So, for that reason, even if I don't think always about that IM, it tends to bother me frequently.


I think that pressure can be quite significant. I have an immediate reflex to a lot of gender expectations and I can be pretty unforgiving regarding some of it. I absolutely cannot stand gender stereotypes or things like strangers finding it absolutely okay to tell me "you should smile!" Do they do that to men? Hardly, but I'm a woman, so I should smile and be super duper friendly and have a bajillion friends! UGH.

I wonder if this distaste can be even more pronounced among female SLI and ILI, where the guys can more easily let it go because it really is not expected -as much- from them. I mean, how can you just ignore it and not think of it when it is expected of you almost all the time? I really don't mean to start an argument about who has it worse or whatever but it is incredibly annoying to me.

And as for my PoLR (back on topic, whoo)... honestly, I am not bothered by most people very strongly except in a general sense, close-minded individuals who just believe their way is *the way*, period. Unless there is something I'm missing, I don't think all Se types are like this or that only Se types are like this so whatever P:


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## Chesire Tower (Jan 19, 2013)

Kanerou said:


> I think people tend to forget that Fi is also capable of asking others to tone it down; they do, after all, tend to prioritize relationships and pay attention to others' feelings. And in fact,* this can be one of the ways they conflict with Fe-valuers, who tend to be more interested in the overall atmosphere than pandering to one person's hurt feelings*.


That's very interesting, I think that this further confirms to me that I am likely a Fe-valuing type. Although, I would still evaluate any situation through context; so I could well sympathize with then individual against the group; if I disagree with the group or the group leader's values but in general; I would side with the group over the individual.

What I'm still trying to determine is whether Te or Fi is my PoLR since I dislike (people whom I perceive to be) "whiners" and "know-it-alls" about, equally.

I find it really fascinating and amusing how _some_ non-Fe types completely egregiously misconstrue what Fe is about as if Fe types are all mindless automons with no individual moral scruples of their own.


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## Diphenhydramine (Apr 9, 2010)

TreasureTower said:


> That's very interesting, I think that this further confirms to me that I am likely a Fe-valuing type. Although, I would still evaluate any situation through context; so I could well sympathize with then individual against the group; if I disagree with the group or the group leader's values but in general; I would side with the group over the individual.
> 
> What I'm still trying to determine is whether Te or Fi is my PoLR since I dislike (people whom I perceive to be) "whiners" and "know-it-alls" about, equally.
> 
> I find it really fascinating and amusing how _some_ non-Fe types completely egregiously misconstrue what Fe is about as if Fe types are all mindless automons with no individual moral scruples of their own.


 It's interesting, see, I think there is a definite use for "know it alls." Imagine wikipedia would be a person. They would be incredibly useful and sometimes interesting, but what they would contribute would be superficial-shallow.

Otherwise, what's the point of whining? What does it achieve? But obviously, Fi != whining and Te != know it all (tho mb that's how PoLR sees it), but from what I think is a rational perspective, Fi seems to be the least useful IME since it revolves around things that are basically meaningless, and actually it's the most dysfunctional as a base, because it puts priority over basically unimportant things over things that do actually matter, and then - well, in a group environment, that's where I find almost all my conflicts. 

I mean, in theory - but in reality what we will likely find is that there are non-socionical factors that allow us to like a person who is nonetheless base POLR more than we would other types.


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## zinnia (Jul 22, 2013)

TreasureTower said:


> What I'm still trying to determine is whether Te or Fi is my PoLR since I dislike (people whom I perceive to be) "whiners" and "know-it-alls" about, equally.
> 
> I find it really fascinating and amusing how _some_ non-Fe types completely egregiously misconstrue what Fe is about as if Fe types are all mindless automons with no individual moral scruples of their own.


Like you said, it really is all about individual perception. Perceiving Fi to be whiny, Te to be know-it-all, Si to love cleaning 24/7, Se to be pushy, and Fe to be about groupthink... almost everything has been exaggerated and vilified for various reasons. Sometimes unfairly, sometimes due to a misunderstanding but sometimes not. Considering the idea is that you're sensitive to PoLR... well, there's a higher tendency to exaggerate -x-, I think.


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## Chesire Tower (Jan 19, 2013)

Diphenhydramine said:


> It's interesting, see, I think there is a definite use for "know it alls." Imagine wikipedia would be a person. They would be incredibly useful and sometimes interesting, but what they would contribute would be superficial-shallow.
> 
> Otherwise, what's the point of whining? What does it achieve? But obviously, Fi != whining and Te != know it all (tho mb that's how PoLR sees it), but from what I think is a rational perspective, Fi seems to be the least useful IME since it revolves around things that are basically meaningless, and actually it's the most dysfunctional as a base, because it puts priority over basically unimportant things over things that do actually matter, and then - well, in a group environment, that's where I find almost all my conflicts.
> 
> I mean, in theory - but in reality what we will likely find is that there are non-socionical factors that allow us to like a person who is nonetheless base POLR more than we would other types.


Yes, I think I probably get along very well with any healthy person irrespective of type. What drives me the craziest is people who pass moral judgements on me without really knowing all of the facts or perhaps based on projection. I won't tolerate that and I have ended relationships: friendships, therapy, etc. because of it. Someone can criticize my behaviour based on logic; they can tell me that it negatively affected themselves or others but any - even the remotest _hint_, that they are passing moral judgements on me and they are history as far as I'm concerned. This is even 1000 more the case if they are morally critiquing my opinions or feelings. I make it a point of trying to never to do that to others unless they have pushed me beyond my breaking point. I just don't believe that anyone should do that to someone and I cringe whenever I witness that behavior IRL as well as on PerC.


ETA: I have nothing against DESERVED or QUALIFIED know-it-alls; just people who like to imagine that they are some kind of experts based on egoic reasons. I value expert opinions; just so long as _I_ agree with the self-proclaimed expert status AND whatever they're claiming to proselytize.


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## ThatOneWeirdGuy (Nov 22, 2012)

Diphenhydramine said:


> Why would Fi polr make someone a sociopath? (THOUGH - SEE as psychopath and SLE as sociopath sees more apt than it first looks.)


I was making no reference to Fi PoLR, but the nature of Se accompanied by a certain creative. And about your side note in parentheses, I know, I was only half joking. 






Also, what's with everybody correlating Fe with censorship? From my point of view, Fe is the opposite, encouraging open emotional expression whereas Fi is much more censoring and irrational.


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## Chesire Tower (Jan 19, 2013)

zinnia said:


> Like you said, it really is all about individual perception. Perceiving Fi to be whiny, Te to be know-it-all, Si to love cleaning 24/7, Se to be pushy, and Fe to be about groupthink... almost everything has been exaggerated and vilified for various reasons. Sometimes unfairly, sometimes due to a misunderstanding but sometimes not. Considering the idea is that you're sensitive to PoLR... well, there's a higher tendency to exaggerate -x-, I think.


Hey, how 'bout this? I dislike people who pressure me to do things I don't want to do; are anal about it and whine at me to try to break me down and if nothing else works: tell me that other people are in agreement with them about this.


:kitteh:


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## ThatOneWeirdGuy (Nov 22, 2012)

Ananael said:


> Fi base types make up a nice proportion of my friends and problems with them tend to be minimal. However, when my sister and I do get into conflicts I tend to bulldoze over her feelings and attempts to level the psychological playing field. I also had a relationship with an ESI that started off really good but then turned sour towards the end.


Wait, so you're legitimately an ILE now or are u be trollin?


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## zinnia (Jul 22, 2013)

TreasureTower said:


> Hey, how 'bout this? I dislike people who pressure me to do things I don't want to do; are anal about it and whine at me to try to break me down and if nothing else works: tell me that other people are in agreement with them about this.
> 
> 
> :kitteh:


I admit the placement of the smiley face is making me wonder what you meant by this post... is there something going on I am not aware of?

Anyway... maybe that's a form of Te PoLR? Then again I don't think most people really like being told to do something they do not want to (try to pull that on me and the results are usually unpleasant, unless I see the sense in it when they take the time to explain.)


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## d e c a d e n t (Apr 21, 2013)

ThatOneWeirdGuy said:


> Also, what's with everybody correlating Fe with censorship? From my point of view, Fe is the opposite, encouraging open emotional expression whereas Fi is much more censoring and irrational.


Hmm, I think both Fi and Fe can wish to censor something, depending on the reason.


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## Chesire Tower (Jan 19, 2013)

zinnia said:


> I admit the placement of the smiley face is making me wonder what you meant by this post... is there something going on I am not aware of?


Oh, sorry; I didn't mean to confuse you. I just thought it was amusing to try to combine different annoying characteristics of different PoLRs. I was being serious albeit in a light-hearted sort of way.



zinnia said:


> Anyway... maybe that's a form of Te PoLR? Then again I don't think most people really like being told to do something they do not want to (try to pull that on me and the results are usually unpleasant, unless I see the sense in it when they take the time to explain.)


Well, I will give you an example of how I handled it as a kid:

Adult: Do (or don't do) this!
Me: Why (or why not)?
Adult: gives unsatisfactory explanation
Me: But I don't get it; it doesn't make sense.
Adult: Well, it's a rule.
Me: But WHY is it a rule. It seems like a really dumb one.
Adult: (exasperated) Just do it because I said so!


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

ThatOneWeirdGuy said:


> Wait, so you're legitimately an ILE now or are u be trollin?


A wise man never reveals all his secrets. Though I think the answer is pretty self-evident.


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## ThatOneWeirdGuy (Nov 22, 2012)

Ananael said:


> A wise man never reveals all his secrets. Though I think the answer is pretty self-evident.


You're a man?


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Kanerou said:


> Your complaints tend to look more like "don't expect me to censor myself at all" than "I prefer being able to speak my opinion but will tone it down if it affects your feelings too negatively or would cause our relationship trouble", which is something Fi would probably point out. Also, brick wall acknowledged, but it's not about internal values vs external values.


Sigh, why do I always feel that you always place the entirely wrong focus when you read my posts and respond to me? I care about your feelings but only if I care about you. It's a big difference to make.

As for your comment about how IEs function, I will be blunt and say here that it is extremely textbook and shallow way to understand Fe and Fi. Consider it again. Why are they introverted and extroverted? Why do they place such different emphasis and focus in interpersonal interaction? Why do they operate the same as their opposite but same attitude counterparts? 

How we derive our values has to do with this. Fi weighs values based on internal standards just like Ti weighs logic on internal standards. So brick wall acknowledged back then? Maybe one day you will be able to see the deeper content of the IEs, maybe not.


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

ThatOneWeirdGuy said:


> You're a man?


The only way I would be is if I were actually the person in my avatar.


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## Diphenhydramine (Apr 9, 2010)

Figure said:


> Unless people here were assaulted by Fe as they were writing their posts or harboring irritation with the function from a long time ago, I think the responses are unrealistic of what the PoLR embodies. I don't sit around for hours and balk at how much I detest Fe. The reason being that I don't really think anything of it (other than a sense of awkwardness) until I'm expected to use it. It isn't a subject of constant thought, as you are innately weak in the function, misunderstand it, and tend to not attribute enough importance to it to begin with. In normal settings, I would describe the function as embodying a sense of total inadequacy, not an active hatred. If it's directed at someone else it has an entirely different effect than if it is directed at me.


 Honestly, this is the best post in this thread.


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

Diphenhydramine said:


> Honestly, this is the best post in this thread.


Agreed. It really captures the aspect of PoLR that seems more like a blind spot. Another ILI I know described Fe PoLR in more dismissive terms rather than as an active hatred of the function.


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

ThatOneWeirdGuy said:


> About Kanerou's childhood?


No. The meaning of the universe, essentially.

Edit: To be less of a moron, we can learn a lot about intertype relations. Granted there are limitations to doing so via online interactions, there are some interesting juices that can be squeezed out of this.


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## Word Dispenser (May 18, 2012)

Fi base types are _interesting_, but I've learned to keep a healthy distance, as there is generally something jarring and irritating about trying to speak to someone coming from that platform. 

My mom is an Fi base type, and we butt heads constantly when I was growing up. There always seems to be some kind of hidden agenda that I don't understand, or rather, I_ may_ understand, but dislike ... 

So, it causes discomfort. Distance engaged. 

She may not be the best example, but in cases of suspected Fi base type, I seem to put my guard up quite a bit for a hostile encounter. Either coming from them, or me. Suppressed, or outright, whichever the case may be.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Inguz said:


> I skimmed through your search history and did not find it. Would you mind including a link to that post?


Just read his type me thread. It's in there.


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## Inguz (Mar 10, 2012)

ephemereality said:


> Just read his type me thread. It's in there.


http://personalitycafe.com/whats-my...-made-another-type-me-thread.html#post4304931

This post? If so I would like to ask, how does it explain your stance on believing that Fi cannot be judgmental?


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Inguz said:


> http://personalitycafe.com/whats-my...-made-another-type-me-thread.html#post4304931
> 
> This post? If so I would like to ask, how does it explain your stance on believing that Fi cannot be judgmental?


I meant that Fi can be judgemental. Case in point is Kanerou's behavior in this thread here. I have never expressed that Fi cannot be. I realize very well that Fi can be judgemental. My point is that Fe and Fi are the same in this regard, depending on circumstances and who is exposed to it. An Fe type will think Fi is judgemental, an Fi type Fe. And both are judgemental in the sense that both are rational elements. If they weren't judgemental they would be irrational.


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## Inguz (Mar 10, 2012)

ephemereality said:


> I meant that Fi can be judgemental. Case in point is Kanerou's behavior in this thread here. I have never expressed that Fi cannot be. I realize very well that Fi can be judgemental. My point is that Fe and Fi are the same in this regard, depending on circumstances and who is exposed to it. An Fe type will think Fi is judgemental, an Fi type Fe. And both are judgemental in the sense that both are rational elements. If they weren't judgemental they would be irrational.


You have expressed that Fi cannot be, so I will regard this as a typo:


ephemereality said:


> As for me thinking that Fi cannot be judgmental,


Are you calling @Kanerou judgmental or that she perceives Fe to be just that?


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Inguz said:


> You have expressed that Fi cannot be, so I will regard this as a typo:
> 
> 
> Are you calling @Kanerou judgmental or that she perceives Fe to be just that?


Do you have reading difficulties? I was directly addressing a statement not made by myself, but by others, implied or otherwise where some people seem to be of the idea that I think Fi cannot be judgemental. The important part isn't that sentence, but what I write after that is meant to directly refute that one assumption about me. 

It may perhaps be sloppily expressed, but I really think if people are aware of the meaning of that expression, they understand it doesn't mean that it is something the person actually is expressing as a sentiment, but an expression of expressing someone else's statement about that person. 

And yes, of course she is expressing a judgemental nature here because she is making categorical statements about the nature of interpersonal behavior, my behavior etc. Why do you think ThatOneWeirdGuy is reacting to the way she's behaving for example? And that's not just versus potential Se, but the entire combined expression of how FiSe or SeFi can come across to him, likely because it triggers _his_ PoLR.


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## Inguz (Mar 10, 2012)

ephemereality said:


> Do you have reading difficulties? I was directly addressing a statement not made by myself, but by others, implied or otherwise where some people seem to be of the idea that I think Fi cannot be judgemental. The important part isn't that sentence, but what I write after that is meant to directly refute that one assumption about me.
> 
> It may perhaps be sloppily expressed, but I really think if people are aware of the meaning of that expression, they understand it doesn't mean that it is something the person actually is expressing as a sentiment, but an expression of expressing someone else's statement about that person.


Without its context (since you didn't quote anyone) I read it without the context of making a reply. But ok. It certainly wasn't due to reading comprehension however.



ephemereality said:


> And yes, of course she is expressing a judgemental nature here because she is making categorical statements about the nature of interpersonal behavior, my behavior etc. Why do you think ThatOneWeirdGuy is reacting to the way she's behaving for example? And that's not just versus potential Se, but the entire combined expression of how FiSe or SeFi can come across to him, likely because it triggers _his_ PoLR.


Because she is Se creative. I did not read more into that than them having a difference in approach.


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## Monkey King (Nov 16, 2010)

I really don't think I notice Si.... I mean anyone that medles with my work will probably get a rise out of me but if not then I really don't notice people and their quirks. 


Mom's an ESTJ (yeh Yeh not Si-base) but she's all about that Si. I typically respond to her Si-rant by muting her. My IEI sister gets irritated by her tremendously and I try to help her manage their relationship. She always seems to think that I'm Criticising her methods of "taking care of it." She starts swinging at me without telling me why. It's all pretty funny when I think about it. 


I had an ISTp supervisor during my internship. I remember doing my shortcuts because the convoluted steps she gave me seemed like a long way to do something simple that was worth a meager 5% of the project. I remember she was highly irritated but I didn't take blame because I found a faster/easier/CHEAPER way to do something. I didn't enter that internship to take orders but help improve methods. I can take orders if it doesn't remove it from that objective. Lol I wasn't about to apologize for improving something. Admittedly, she did make my year a living hell after that. I sucked it up because my resume was more important than her rage. And rage she did. 


Suprisingly, when I left she called me asking why I had not said anything to her so she could have organized a "going away" brunch. (She wasn't my direct supervisor) I realized right then that I could've been projecting her rage. It was a twisted realization but a good learning experience overall. I mean I had such an awful impression of her that I thought she called to tell me my project portfolio was saved in the wrong folder lol. 

It's more of an annoyance than hate I would say. I'd equate it to a mosquito circling around you in a very quiet room while you're doing something important.


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

Monkey King said:


> Mom's an ESTJ (yeh Yeh not Si-base) but she's all about that Si. I typically respond to her Si-rant by muting her. My IEI sister gets irritated by her tremendously and I try to help her manage their relationship. She always seems to think that I'm Criticising her methods of "taking care of it." She starts swinging at me without telling me why. It's all pretty funny when I think about it.


Haha this is basically the relationship I have with my ESTj mother. She's always lecturing me about how I need to take better care of myself or how pursuing the "good life" is what life is all about, and she constantly tells me that one day I'll realize how right she was about everything once I experience "real life." She gets put off by what she calls my "cold and calculating" nature, and she doesn't take well to my criticisms about her life choices (e.g: buying a spacious home when my sister is going off to college next fall).


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## ThatOneWeirdGuy (Nov 22, 2012)

Ananael said:


> Haha this is basically the relationship I have with my ESTj mother. She's always lecturing me about how I need to take better care of myself or how pursuing the "good life" is what life is all about, and she constantly tells me that one day I'll realize how right she was about everything once I experience "real life." She gets put off by what she calls my "cold and calculating" nature, and she doesn't take well to my criticisms about her life choices (e.g: buying a spacious home when my sister is going off to college next fall).


An insight into the American upper-middle class.

Is it your mother or father that's a doctor?


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

ThatOneWeirdGuy said:


> An insight into the American upper-middle class.
> 
> Is it your mother or father that's a doctor?


My mother. Mi madre. She's the doctor.


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## ThatOneWeirdGuy (Nov 22, 2012)

Ananael said:


> My mother. Mi madre. She's the doctor.


Y tu padre?


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

ThatOneWeirdGuy said:


> Y tu padre?


Retired researcher with a PhD in genetics.


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## ThatOneWeirdGuy (Nov 22, 2012)

As a side note, it sickens me that your mother has that attitude and is just in medicine for the prestige and money.



Ananael said:


> Retired researcher with a PhD in genetics.


How does he view your Mom's materialistic attitude?


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

ThatOneWeirdGuy said:


> As a side note, it sickens me that your mother has that attitude and is just in medicine for the prestige and money.


My mom's obsession with having nice things does put me off. Though I do like having titles and degrees and things like that. 



> How does he view your Mom's materialistic attitude?


My dad is quite the materialist himself but not in the same way my mother is. He wants to leave things behind for my sister and I but my mom wants to spend on herself and what not. It's no surprise that they are divorced.


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## ThatOneWeirdGuy (Nov 22, 2012)

Ananael said:


> My mom's obsession with having nice things does put me off. Though I do like having titles and degrees and things like that.
> 
> 
> 
> My dad is quite the materialist himself but not in the same way my mother is. He wants to leave things behind for my sister and I but my mom wants to spend on herself and what not. It's no surprise that they are divorced.



I don't understand people .-.


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## Recede (Nov 23, 2011)

What Fe must be like for ILI/SLI:


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## Cantarella (Sep 3, 2010)

I find SEIs adorable, honestly. SLIs are a different matter. SEIs and SLIs seem to love me, except for when I make light of their base function. With Ni-doms I can usually just remind them when I think they're being too anal about things and if I use sufficient humor then they generally calm down, but Si-base types seem genuinely disappointed in me, lol.


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## Elyasis (Jan 4, 2012)

ephemereality said:


> Well, what do you expect when it's a thread asking about the PoLR? There's a reason I refrained from posting anything lengthier. There are people who sometimes post here and clearly express a negative attitude towards things I value and then no one seems to give a fuck if it's offensive because it's not always mentioned in relations l to typology or IEs. Doesn't make it less personally offensive. Why is it ok to express that Se base is like a psychopath but then expressing it similarly towards Fe? Because one had a more serious tone? Let's not be hypocritical because I'm quite sure there was truth to what the op said. In the face of the polr every ie sucks. Attempts to sugarcoat is not going to change this.
> 
> To clarify, I get it that to an Fe valuing type sugar coating may seem like the more socially desirable thing to say, but that's why it's Fe polr because why should I give a fuck when I want to express an honest opinion?
> 
> ...


Can we just talk for a bit about how very Fi Hidden Agenda this post was and the ones preceding it with @Kanerou

I wonder if this is how base types of other people's HA react to others use of their hidden agenda usually?

Stop me if that sentence made no sense.


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