# Help me out? I'm pretty sure I'm either ESFP or ENFP.



## Moya (May 22, 2012)

Acerbusvenator said:


> That would suggest Ne over Fi.


I guess. I value both a lot, though. But you're probably right.

If it helps anyone, I think my Enneagram type is 6w7.


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

Title said:


> How do I remind you of your sister?


The first paragraph about you and your friends, and when you describe how you get defensive when people threaten your values. 

But @Acerbusvenator makes a good point. You might be an ENFP rather than an INFP. Same functions, different order in the stack.


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

FacelessBeauty said:


> The first paragraph about you and your friends, and when you describe how you get defensive when people threaten your values.
> 
> But @_Acerbusvenator_ makes a good point. You might be an ENFP rather than an INFP. Same functions, different order in the stack.


So now it's down to ENFP vs INFP? How are we going to figure that one out?


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Title said:


> I guess. I value both a lot, though. But you're probably right.
> 
> If it helps anyone, I think my Enneagram type is 6w7.


Woo, almost like me then.



> *
> Type Six with a Seven Wing:*
> 
> Type Seven is associated with a desire to escape one's self through engaging activities. 6w7s share this trait as well, making them a more active and outgoing type than 6w5. 6w7s are sometimes called “The Buddy” because they can be incredibly loyal and warm. They take a genuine interest in the lives of others.
> ...


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

Title said:


> So now it's down to ENFP vs INFP? How are we going to figure that one out?


I don't know. 
Maybe @Ludi could help out when he's free. Or @Yomotsu Risouka could confirm. He's ENFP.


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

Well that snippet doesn't sound much like me. I guess the key word was "I _think_ my Enneagram type is 6w7."
I tested as it once, though. And I remember reading some sort of description of it that sounded like me a while ago.


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

FacelessBeauty said:


> I don't know.
> Maybe @_Ludi_ could help out when he's free. Or @_Yomotsu Risouka_ could confirm. He's ENFP.


Okay...so do we just...wait and hope they see this?


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Title said:


> Okay...so do we just...wait and hope they see this?


She mentioned them 
They will see it @_Title_

-----------
_*POST 500!
YEAAAAAAAA!*_


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## Yomotsu Risouka (May 11, 2012)

Your willingness to share your emotions, interest in trying new things for the sake of it (after-party), preference for interpersonal activities, relatively balanced Fi/Te, and very weak Si/Se all seem to suggest ENFP. I don't really get the feeling you're an introvert at all, even if you're not terribly outgoing.

Your picture description is totally Ne-Si with a little Fi, by the way. "I like this, I don't like this, this looks sorta like this..."


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

Acerbusvenator said:


> She mentioned them
> They will see it @_Title_
> 
> -----------
> ...


Congrats!



Yomotsu Risouka said:


> Your willingness to share your emotions, interest in trying new things for the sake of it (after-party), preference for interpersonal activities, relatively balanced Fi/Te, and very weak Si/Se all seem to suggest ENFP. I don't really get the feeling you're an introvert at all, even if you're not terribly outgoing.
> 
> Your picture description is totally Ne-Si with a little Fi, by the way. "I like this, I don't like this, this looks sorta like this..."


I mean, I'm not willing to share my emotions when they're really personal emotions, I get reserved about that, but otherwise pretty much.

I guess I could just be a really thinky, reserved extrovert. When I suggested to a couple of my friends that I could be an introvert, they all protested, haha.


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## Ludi (Dec 25, 2011)

Title said:


> Okay...so do we just...wait and hope they see this?


If you can relate to _most _of the traits in this description, you're probably ENFP. If you don't, you are an INFP.

ENFP - Jung Type Descriptions


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## Jewl (Feb 28, 2012)

@Title - Funnily enough, and people might shoot me down for this, I was battling between ENFP, ESFP, and ESFJ for you. I know that sounds weird. o_o But the thing is, the way you described the picture could have been Si too. It was more of your personal impression than what I think a Se-user would include. This makes me think that ENFP is more likely. Looking through your post, I do see more reasoning to lean towards Ne. You are lead by an Extroverted function. Your thoughts are very directed toward the external world, at least from what I could see. I was looking at ESFJ for a moment because I thought I saw what could be Fe, and I didn't see any Ni, so I assumed for the moment Si. I only wanted to toy with the idea as a tiny possibility. You see, Fe can also not be so hot about authority and look very much like Fi. But then again, Fi can look a lot like Fe. I do think I am more sold on the idea of Fi, as you don't seem to care all that much about consensus like a dominant Fe-user would, so I ruled out the idea of Fe. 

I am thinking ENFP at this point, but just to make sure, can you do another picture question please? How about.... this one: 










Just making sure.


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## petitpèlerin (Apr 23, 2012)

ENFP. ESFPs tend to be very active and are attuned to physical surroundings. ENFPs tend to have very active minds, which it sounds like you have. Your writing sounds ENFP to me. And you keep scoring high on Ne and low on Se. So, not ESFP and not ESTP. Yeah, ENFP.

I disagree with whoever has suggested you look into any introverted type, no matter what the tests come up with. The tests are almost never right because they can't possibly take everything into account. You clearly stated that being alone too long drains you. That's a no-brainer. Maybe you score high on Te and Ti because you have an active mind, like a true ENFP. And ENFPs have more introverted tendencies than most extroverts. They can be shy in certain situations, they need some alone time to play with their ideas and recenter themselves, etc. You sound very ENFP to me.


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## petitpèlerin (Apr 23, 2012)

I hate to even bring it up, but have you considered ENTP? Your Fi and Ti both score high, Fi a bit stronger, but with your orientation toward logic and wanting things to make sense, and I just realized that you said you feel energized by a good debate. ENTPs love nothing more than a good debate. ENFPs enjoy sparring, too. ENTPs just seem to thrive on it. So, I would be wondering between ENFP and ENTP.


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

Ludi said:


> If you can relate to _most _of the traits in this description, you're probably ENFP. If you don't, you are an INFP.
> 
> ENFP - Jung Type Descriptions


Can I code the ones that sound most and least like me? I think I saw another thread on here that did that.

outgoing, social, *disorganized*, *easily talked into doing silly things*,  spontaneous, wild and crazy, acts without thinking, *good at getting people to have fun, pleasure seeking*, irresponsible, *physically affectionate*, risk taker, thrill seeker,* likely to have or want a tattoo, adventurous, unprepared, attention seeking, hyperactive,* irrational, loves crowds, *rule breaker,* _*prone to losing things,*_ seductive, *easily distracted,* open, revealing, comfortable in unfamiliar situations, *attracted to strange things, non punctual, likes to stand out,* likes to try new things, *fun seeker,* unconventional, *energetic,* impulsive, empathetic, dangerous, *loving, attachment prone, prone to fantasy*
The bolded ones are things I relate to. I bolded and italicized 'prone to losing things' because I've misplaced pretty much everything I own at one point or another. The red ones are ones I can't relate to. The ones I left alone depend on my mood/the situation/who I'm with.

ETA: I decided to do it with INFP, for what it's worth.
*creative, smart,* idealist, loner, *attracted to sad things,* *disorganized, avoidant, can be overwhelmed by unpleasant feelings, prone to quitting, prone to feelings of loneliness, ambivalent of the rules,* solitary, _* daydreams about people to maintain a sense of closeness,*_ *focus on fantasies,* acts without planning, low self confidence, emotionally moody, can feel defective, *prone to lateness, likes esoteric things, wounded at the core, feels shame, frequently losing things, prone to sadness, prone to dreaming about a rescuer,* disorderly, *observer, easily distracted, does not like crowds,* can act without thinking, private, can feel uncomfortable around others, *familiar with the darkside,* hermit, *more likely to support marijuana legalization, can sabotage self,* likes the rain, *sometimes can't control fearful thoughts, prone to crying, prone to regret,* attracted to the counter culture, *can be submissive, prone to feeling discouraged, frequently second guesses self, not punctual, not always prepared,* can feel victimized, *prone to confusion,* prone to irresponsibility, can be pessimistic



Julia Bell said:


> @_Title_ - Funnily enough, and people might shoot me down for this, I was battling between ENFP, ESFP, and ESFJ for you. I know that sounds weird. o_o But the thing is, the way you described the picture could have been Si too. It was more of your personal impression than what I think a Se-user would include. This makes me think that ENFP is more likely. Looking through your post, I do see more reasoning to lean towards Ne. You are lead by an Extroverted function. Your thoughts are very directed toward the external world, at least from what I could see. I was looking at ESFJ for a moment because I thought I saw what could be Fe, and I didn't see any Ni, so I assumed for the moment Si. I only wanted to toy with the idea as a tiny possibility. You see, Fe can also not be so hot about authority and look very much like Fi. But then again, Fi can look a lot like Fe. I do think I am more sold on the idea of Fi, as you don't seem to care all that much about consensus like a dominant Fe-user would, so I ruled out the idea of Fe.
> 
> I am thinking ENFP at this point, but just to make sure, can you do another picture question please? How about.... this one:
> 
> ...


Sure.
Huh. Well, I like all of the green in the picture, I like the sharpness of it and how bright the colors are. Also, the ripples in the water are nice. It's almost like you can imagine being in the picture.
I also really like the clouds, it's like you can see shapes and faces in them. Every time I look at the clouds, I can make out shapes and faces, but other people don't see them. Oh, that made me sound crazy, haha. Anyways..the picture almost makes me sentimental. It's really pretty. Looks like somewhere I would have spent time as a kid.



ltldslwmn said:


> ENFP. ESFPs tend to be very active and are attuned to physical surroundings. ENFPs tend to have very active minds, which it sounds like you have. Your writing sounds ENFP to me. And you keep scoring high on Ne and low on Se. So, not ESFP and not ESTP. Yeah, ENFP.
> 
> I disagree with whoever has suggested you look into any introverted type, no matter what the tests come up with. The tests are almost never right because they can't possibly take everything into account. You clearly stated that being alone too long drains you. That's a no-brainer. Maybe you score high on Te and Ti because you have an active mind, like a true ENFP. And ENFPs have more introverted tendencies than most extroverts. They can be shy in certain situations, they need some alone time to play with their ideas and recenter themselves, etc. You sound very ENFP to me.


Okay, thanks for your input. I don't think I'm much of an introvert. Maybe an "ambivert" with more extroverted tendencies than introverted. Yeah, I think I'm just a quiet extrovert at heart.



ltldslwmn said:


> I hate to even bring it up, but have you considered ENTP? Your Fi and Ti both score high, Fi a bit stronger, but with your orientation toward logic and wanting things to make sense, and I just realized that you said you feel energized by a good debate. ENTPs love nothing more than a good debate. ENFPs enjoy sparring, too. ENTPs just seem to thrive on it. So, I would be wondering between ENFP and ENTP.


Doesn't ENTP use more Fe than Fi though? There are things I love more than a good debate, although I do enjoy it a lot. Sometimes they end up frustrating me, honestly. I love debating, but it tends to get off course pretty quickly, which is confusing for everyone...but it's still something I like doing, I guess.

Oh yeah, something else I wanted to ask PerC about. I definitely have a LOT of perceiving characteristics, as you can see. I'm almost never on time to things, honestly, and my room is always a mess.
But funny enough, it gives me a lot of joy to make lists and put things in order, I sometimes do like planning things before I do them, and I'm absolutely unable to multitask because I get distracted by one thing and can't pay attention to the other thing. The way I do tasks is by writing down what needs to be done and splitting it into segments, and...I don't know where I'm going with this. But aren't those judging characterists?


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## Jewl (Feb 28, 2012)

@Title - Well, some descriptions say that a Judger is more of a planner. However, getting to know many "J-types", lots of them are very spontaneous and don't plan. If you look at the cognitive functions which make up the sixteen personality types, how organized you are doesn't necessarily tell you whether or not you have a J or P at the end of your four letter code. Also, I am Extroverted and I relate _tons_ more to the description of the Introvert. Descriptions won't be able to tell you too much. The best thing to do would be to look at the functions and then look to the descriptions to make sure that you aren't way off the mark. 

Also, ENFPs aren't known for being loud or wanting to be the center of attention. In fact, many ENFPs mistype themselves as INFPs because they just look Introverted in temperament. A lot of them, myself included, call themselves ambiverts. When it comes to temperament (you know, the whole 'extroverts get energy from people, introverts get energy from being alone), ENFPs might not be "extroverted". However, when we're looking at the personality types, it's not necessarily the temperament we're looking at but whether or not the person is lead with an Extroverted or Introverted function. 

ESTJs, for instance, usually describe themselves as disliking being around people and that it drains them completely, despite being Extroverts. 

As for your description of the picture, I can see _some_ evidence pointing for Se still. But I think I see more for Ne-Si. 

I think ENFP is it.


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

Julia Bell said:


> @_Title_ - Well, some descriptions say that a Judger is more of a planner. However, getting to know many "J-types", lots of them are very spontaneous and don't plan. If you look at the cognitive functions which make up the sixteen personality types, how organized you are doesn't necessarily tell you whether or not you have a J or P at the end of your four letter code. Also, I am Extroverted and I relate _tons_ more to the description of the Introvert. Descriptions won't be able to tell you too much. The best thing to do would be to look at the functions and then look to the descriptions to make sure that you aren't way off the mark.
> 
> Also, ENFPs aren't known for being loud or wanting to be the center of attention. In fact, many ENFPs mistype themselves as INFPs because they just look Introverted in temperament. A lot of them, myself included, call themselves ambiverts. When it comes to temperament (you know, the whole 'extroverts get energy from people, introverts get energy from being alone), ENFPs might not be "extroverted". However, when we're looking at the personality types, it's not necessarily the temperament we're looking at but whether or not the person is lead with an Extroverted or Introverted function.
> 
> ...


That makes a lot of sense! So then, what is the definite difference between introverts and extroverts?


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## petitpèlerin (Apr 23, 2012)

Title said:


> funny enough, it gives me a lot of joy to make lists and put things in order, I sometimes do like planning things before I do them, and I'm absolutely unable to multitask because I get distracted by one thing and can't pay attention to the other thing. The way I do tasks is by writing down what needs to be done and splitting it into segments, and...I don't know where I'm going with this. But aren't those judging characterists?


Those are Te characteristics. That indicates that you have some Te, which gives further support to the idea that you're ENFP.


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

ltldslwmn said:


> Those are Te characteristics. That indicates that you have some Te, which gives further support to the idea that you're ENFP.


Alright, okay, Te, that makes sense! But how does that lend support to the idea that I'm ENFP if they're primarily Ti users?


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## petitpèlerin (Apr 23, 2012)

Title said:


> Alright, okay, Te, that makes sense! But how does that lend support to the idea that I'm ENFP if they're primarily Ti users?


ENFPs don't use Ti. They use (in order): Ne Fi Te Si. (Of course none of us actually develop our top four functions exactly the way they are in the theory, because reality is always somewhat off from theory, and most of all in our human lives. But our capacities to use and develop our top four functions are strongest.) Anyway, it makes perfect sense if you're really an ENFP and your room is a scattered mess and you tend to be late for things (those are Ne-Fi-ish, and my good ENFP friend is so that way), but you also are good at putting together lists if need be (Te), although you're not, say, a professional planner and organizer, like an ENTJ or ESTJ (who basically run the business world).


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

ltldslwmn said:


> ENFPs don't use Ti. They use (in order): Ne Fi Te Si. (Of course none of us actually develop our top four functions exactly the way they are in the theory, because reality is always somewhat off from theory, and most of all in our human lives. But our capacities to use and develop our top four functions are strongest.) Anyway, it makes perfect sense if you're really an ENFP and your room is a scattered mess and you tend to be late for things (those are Ne-Fi-ish, and my good ENFP friend is so that way), but you also are good at putting together lists if need be (Te), although you're not, say, a professional planner and organizer, like an ENTJ or ESTJ (who basically run the business world).


Sorry, I got ENFP and ENTP's functions confused for a second, ha.
Understanding functions makes everything a lot easier to comprehend. Thanks for clarifying, I think that's probably the case with me.


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## Jewl (Feb 28, 2012)

Title said:


> Alright, okay, Te, that makes sense! But how does that lend support to the idea that I'm ENFP if they're primarily Ti users?


Lol, ENFPs don't use Ti very well at all. Ti for ENFPs is a part of their shadow functions. ^_^ The function order of an ENFP is as follows: 

Ne - Fi - Te- Si 

ENFPs use _Fi _​a lot. 

Edit: Well, I might mention here that the defining difference between Introverts and Extroverts is that Introverts lead with Introverted functions and Extroverts lead with Extroverted functions. The really is the difference. You can see this in how they think -- Extroverts, because they lead with an Extroverted function, think objectively. Extroverted perceiving functions, for example, are literally all about the object. Their fascination goes towards the external world, and constantly ask _What? _What is here (Se), what is possible (Ne)? Introverted functions are more subjective. The fascination goes towards the internal world. Introverts very much live "inside" their heads. 

Extroverts can enjoy going into their internal world and use their mind quite a lot. However, their dwelling place is ultimately the external world. For Introverts, this is reversed. 

I definitely suggest studying the functions more. To me, that's the best part of MBTI and Jung.  And if you've got questions, feel free to ask them in the Cognitive Function forum. Or you can certainly feel free to PM me with questions.


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

Julia Bell said:


> Lol, ENFPs don't use Ti very well at all. Ti for ENFPs is a part of their shadow functions. ^_^ The function order of an ENFP is as follows:
> 
> Ne - Fi - Te- Si
> 
> ...


Haha, this is all really interesting. Thanks for the help. I guess, with all this, I'm almost definitely ENFP.
It's weird though, I never thought of myself as intuitive because I have a good memory for details. But I was probably stereotyping by thinking that.


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## Jewl (Feb 28, 2012)

Title said:


> Haha, this is all really interesting. Thanks for the help. I guess, with all this, I'm almost definitely ENFP.
> It's weird though, I never thought of myself as intuitive because I have a good memory for details. But I was probably stereotyping by thinking that.


Well, you can still keep an eye on ESFP. At least you know that you're ExFP for sure.  That's already a big step forwards. It's sad that we don't have more ESFPs around here, but feel free to post about in the ENFP forum. See if you're comfortable and can relate. ^_^ And always ask questions.


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## Ludi (Dec 25, 2011)

Title said:


> Can I code the ones that sound most and least like me? I think I saw another thread on here that did that.
> 
> outgoing, social, *disorganized*, *easily talked into doing silly things*,  spontaneous, wild and crazy, acts without thinking, *good at getting people to have fun, pleasure seeking*, irresponsible, *physically affectionate*, risk taker, thrill seeker,* likely to have or want a tattoo, adventurous, unprepared, attention seeking, hyperactive,* irrational, loves crowds, *rule breaker,* _*prone to losing things,*_ seductive, *easily distracted,* open, revealing, comfortable in unfamiliar situations, *attracted to strange things, non punctual, likes to stand out,* likes to try new things, *fun seeker,* unconventional, *energetic,* impulsive, empathetic, dangerous, *loving, attachment prone, prone to fantasy*
> The bolded ones are things I relate to. I bolded and italicized 'prone to losing things' because I've misplaced pretty much everything I own at one point or another. The red ones are ones I can't relate to. The ones I left alone depend on my mood/the situation/who I'm with.
> ...


 @Title
Then it is *INFP*. What makes you unsure of this?, it's the most probable.


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

Julia Bell said:


> Well, you can still keep an eye on ESFP. At least you know that you're ExFP for sure.  That's already a big step forwards. It's sad that we don't have more ESFPs around here, but feel free to post about in the ENFP forum. See if you're comfortable and can relate. ^_^ And always ask questions.


Alright, thanks.



Ludi said:


> @_Title_
> Then it is *INFP*. What makes you unsure of this?, it's the most probable.


Because the whole introvert-extrovert thing is incredibly confusing for me.
I can relate to both ENFP and INFP. How can I find a surefire way to know which one I lean more towards?


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Title said:


> Because the whole introvert-extrovert thing is incredibly confusing for me.
> I can relate to both ENFP and INFP. How can I find a surefire way to know which one I lean more towards?


Maybe this one will be of help.


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

Acerbusvenator said:


> Maybe this one will be of help.


Didn't clarify much for me because I've heard it all before. What I want to know is what people mean when they say "recharge" or "get energy". What kind of energy are we talking about?


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## Yomotsu Risouka (May 11, 2012)

Title said:


> What kind of energy are we talking about?


The kind used in zero point modules.

But really, psychological energy. Motivation. Excitement. Those sorts of things.


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

Yomotsu Risouka said:


> The kind used in zero point modules.
> 
> But really, psychological energy. Motivation. Excitement. Those sorts of things.


Oh, then I usually get that from other people. But it's often indirect.


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## Ludi (Dec 25, 2011)

Title said:


> Oh, then I usually get that from other people. But it's often indirect.


The Fi-Ne of INFPs can indeed be stimulated by social interaction. However, most of the ENFP traits you've selected above are common to INFPs too, especially those with a big tendency towards perceiving (just notice the number of characteristics you have bolded in each description). 

ENFPs tend to be unaware of danger outside themselves, or, better said, are not security-conscious at all, because they appreciate the object very/too much, often neglecting the subjective, pushing the envelope instead of letting themselves immerse into negative feelings and judgements towards the self. They really tend to act without thinking most of the time. Your need to reflect before you act points towards introversion, a not for an extraverted perceiving function.


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

Ludi said:


> The Fi-Ne of INFPs can indeed be stimulated by social interaction. However, most of the ENFP traits you've selected above are common to INFPs too, especially those with a big tendency towards perceiving (just notice the number of characteristics you have bolded in each description).
> 
> ENFPs tend to be unaware of danger outside themselves, or, better said, are not security-conscious at all, because they appreciate the object very/too much, often neglecting the subjective, pushing the envelope instead of letting themselves immerse into negative feelings and judgements towards the self. They really tend to act without thinking most of the time. Your need to reflect before you act points towards introversion, a not for an extraverted perceiving function.


But if it's a tendency, doesn't that mean it's not a solid fact? I'm not denying what you're saying, I'm just trying to get different angles on it.

Also, for anyone who wants to answer -- do people with strong Fi usually not hold their tongues? Because I've noticed that, if it would be unwise or not worth my trouble to voice my opinion, often I won't do it. I would want to, for sure, but I've kind of taught myself to hold my tongue because it's gotten me in a lot of trouble when I didn't. Or I might word things differently so that people don't get offended, but those are only people that I tolerate/dislike or those in positions of authority. I don't want to cause a huge scene fighting over something, and I don't want to screw myself over by mouthing off to someone who has power over me, or someone I would like to impress.
For what it's worth, though, if someone challenged one of my strongly held values (the non-budging ones that I always have), I would speak up almost no matter who it was. Whether it was my best friend, my worst enemy, or a relative of mine, I would let them know that I disagree with what they're saying.
Is that Fi or Fe?


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## VivianeScrooge (Oct 22, 2011)

Title said:


> Hey, so I've tried this before but I didn't get much response.
> I've decided that I'm either ESFP or ENFP. Here's what I know for sure about my S/N tendencies.
> 
> - I'm really big on logic and things making sense.
> ...


ENFP, ESFPs have Se as their first function(a knack for hands on experience. ENFPs have Si as their last function(good with memorization).
_"I can remember a lot of details about something I'm interested in."

_


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

VivianeScrooge said:


> ENFP, ESFPs have Se as their first function(a knack for hands on experience. ENFPs have Si as their last function(good with memorization).
> _"I can remember a lot of details about something I'm interested in."
> 
> _


Okay, thanks. I do think I learn best with hands on things, though. It keeps me interested.


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## VivianeScrooge (Oct 22, 2011)

Title said:


> Okay, thanks. I do think I learn best with hands on things, though. It keeps me interested.


What do you usually think if you enter a new situation :
A. You're excited with the new environment, and pick the perfect dress a day before to make a good first impression.
B. Or you're excited you're going to make new friends. And already thinking what you're going to say to them a day before.


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

VivianeScrooge said:


> What do you usually think if you enter a new situation :
> A. You're excited with the new environment, and pick the perfect dress a day before to make a good first impression.
> B. Or you're excited you're going to make new friends. And already thinking what you're going to say to them a day before.


Um, probably A, out of those two?
Usually, I'd probably pick something nice to wear, but spend the whole day worrying about the day tomorrow, whether something will go wrong, if I'll end up ostracized and friendless, and what it will be like.
Wow, I sound like a real negative Nancy there. I'm not, I just have a predisposition to be anxious. Whenever I'm going to start something new or go to a new place or have a new major experience, I usually have trouble sleeping and not worrying, I guess.


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## paper lilies (Dec 6, 2011)

I know that people are xNFP happy in this thread but all that I'm seeing is Se.
I think xSFP is far more likely than xNFP in my opinion.
It's not the best idea to rely on tests for typing.
I have known ENFJ's that have tested as an INFP on the keys2cognition test.
This thread has combined "take this test" with "what behaviors do you have daily?" and "read this type description"... you cannot pinpoint cognitive functions this way.
My ESFP best friend goes off topic all the time when she speaks- this is not strictly Ne.



> The Sensation Function refers to how an individual receives information via their primary senses. Sensation tells us something is. It does not tell us what it is or what it is worth. It only tells us that something is. For example, you may touch something hot, but without the Thinking or Feeling function, you would not be able to describe this feeling as hot. The sensation is there, but there is no identification or value for this sensation. It just is. That is the Sensation Function in its purest form. (Jung 11)


This is all I am seeing from the OP here. 
Even with the picture description the OP gave, it was what the picture _is_.
It was objective, extroverted Sensing.
I am also seeing introverted Feeling within the OP's answers as well.
This leads me back to the beginning of my post. I think xSFP is more likely.


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

paper lilies said:


> I know that people are xNFP happy in this thread but all that I'm seeing is Se.
> I think xSFP is far more likely than xNFP in my opinion.
> It's not the best idea to rely on tests for typing.
> I have known ENFJ's that have tested as an INFP on the keys2cognition test.
> ...


Hm, maybe.
Based on this description of Se and this description of Si I think I use Si more. I always try to compare new experiences with something that happened in the past. It's kind of weird for me to consider actually new things happening, if that makes any sense at all. If I'm not used to it, it seems completely foreign and almost impossible when I think about it, even if it ends up happening.
That didn't make much sense. But I hope you get what I'm implying.
I don't freely follow my impulses. Sometimes I'm impulsive, but only with small things, and I don't do anything impulsive that's actually stupid. I would rather not do something stupid because I felt like it and end up regretting it later. I'd much rather play it safe.
I guess I identify relevant facts and such. _"An active seeking of more and more input to get the whole picture may occur until all sources of input have been exhausted or something else captures our attention." _is the part that sounds the most like me. I tend to overthink things and try to get all the details. But I think I might use Si more, it sounds more like me when I'm reading about it. I guess it depends.


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## Ludi (Dec 25, 2011)

So much for all the logicians in Personality Café...
@FacelessBeauty : Please review this thread ... INFP or no ENFP?


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## VivianeScrooge (Oct 22, 2011)

Title said:


> Um, probably A, out of those two?
> Usually, I'd probably pick something nice to wear, but spend the whole day worrying about the day tomorrow, whether something will go wrong, if I'll end up ostracized and friendless, and what it will be like.
> Wow, I sound like a real negative Nancy there. I'm not, I just have a predisposition to be anxious. Whenever I'm going to start something new or go to a new place or have a new major experience, I usually have trouble sleeping and not worrying, I guess.


I think you might be an ISFP. 

_I'm not uncomfortable with theory. In fact, I love discussing theories and ideas with people. But I use common sense to see if they make sense. 

I'm sometimes really good at remembering facts about people, but I usually don't just take facts for what they are. I use them to sort of form a bigger conclusion about the person, although I do like some facts for what they are.

I'm not a very spontaneous person. Sometimes it seems like I can be very random and spontaneous, and I do have a tendency to go off on tangents when I speak. But I'm really NOT that random or spontaneous._
_
I sometimes get "feelings" about people, often online. I'm not sure if I'm just BSing myself or if they're real. But I can sort of get a vibe over whether a person is harmful/suspicious or not. Also, I can usually tell if a person is male or female by the way they type_

Really resonates with ISFP. ISFPs are consider one of the most intuitive sensor types.

Anxiety in the social arena is not something an ENFP or ESFP would go through(Ne intuition and Se are externally focus functions. Except in some cases when you've been rejected by your peers. And you didn't mention something like that, so I can't elaborate.


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

VivianeScrooge said:


> I think you might be an ISFP.
> 
> _I'm not uncomfortable with theory. In fact, I love discussing theories and ideas with people. But I use common sense to see if they make sense.
> 
> ...


I've been rejected by my peers for virtually my whole life. That's probably why I get so anxious around people. Does that change anything? I probably should have mentioned that earlier.
I think I come across as kind of weird to most people, seeing as I'm opinionated but reserved around strangers, and I've always been at least slightly awkward with my body language, I think.


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## VivianeScrooge (Oct 22, 2011)

Title said:


> I've been rejected by my peers for virtually my whole life. That's probably why I get so anxious around people. Does that change anything? I probably should have mentioned that earlier.
> I think I come across as kind of weird to most people, seeing as I'm opinionated but reserved around strangers, and I've always been at least slightly awkward with my body language, I think.


Yes, it does change things. I believe you're an ENFP, NFs got the highest percentages being deem weird, or think that they're weird. ESFPs...not so much. Even though the ESFPs could be ostracize as well, its for different reasons.
One thing that capture my attention is your tendency to get 'feelings' from people, definitely an NF trait. Though now I'm thinking you might be an introvert, INFP to be exact.

Would you say you prefer to collect information then judge, or you prefer to judge first than derail to other options. 
(Don't have any correlation with judging types. I'm certain you're a P)


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

VivianeScrooge said:


> Yes, it does change things. I believe you're an ENFP, NFs got the highest percentages being deem weird, or think that they're weird. ESFPs...not so much. Even though the ESFPs could be ostracize as well, its for different reasons.
> One thing that capture my attention is your tendency to get 'feelings' from people, definitely an NF trait. Though now I'm thinking you might be an introvert, INFP to be exact.
> 
> Would you say you prefer to collect information then judge, or you prefer to judge first than derail to other options.
> (Don't have any correlation with judging types. I'm certain you're a P)


Collect information then judge, I suppose


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

paper lilies said:


> I know that people are xNFP happy in this thread but all that I'm seeing is Se.
> I think xSFP is far more likely than xNFP in my opinion.
> It's not the best idea to rely on tests for typing.
> I have known ENFJ's that have tested as an INFP on the keys2cognition test.
> ...


A few things:
1. Much more noticeable Fi going on than Se. Show me where because I'm not seeing it.
2. Her analysis of the photos seem objective at first glance, but they were actually quite subjective with a touch of nostalgia.
3. Tests can be quite accurate if the person understands what the questions mean and if they're honest or self-aware
4. All arguments posted in this thread should be taken with a grain of salt. There's only so much we can work with, so we try to use whatever reasonable leads we can get. There's only so much we can do.



VivianeScrooge said:


> I think you might be an ISFP.
> 
> _I'm not uncomfortable with theory. In fact, I love discussing theories and ideas with people. But I use common sense to see if they make sense.
> 
> ...


Any type can experience some form of social anxiety. Extraversion doesn't guarantee success or confidence in the social world. Just like introversion doesn't mean you have less success or confidence in the social realm. Both describe where psychological emery comes from. For introverts it's the ideas, feelings, memories, etc. generated within. For extraverts it's things in the external realm, and this doesn't just mean other people. As far as her remembering facts about other people, it depends on whether they were subjective observations or actual concrete facts. @Title could you elaborate more on this please?



Ludi said:


> So much for all the logicians in Personality Café...
> @_FacelessBeauty_ : Please review this thread ... INFP or no ENFP?


Well Ludi, until someone can produce a reasonable explanation or new information to convince me otherwise, I think I'm going with INFP because of how her feelings and values seem much more internalized and that's the strongest trait expressed here.


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

FacelessBeauty said:


> Any type can experience some form of social anxiety. Extraversion doesn't guarantee success or confidence in the social world. Just like introversion doesn't mean you have less success or confidence in the social realm. Both describe where psychological emery comes from. For introverts it's the ideas, feelings, memories, etc. generated within. For extraverts it's things in the external realm, and this doesn't just mean other people. As far as her remembering facts about other people, it depends on whether they were subjective observations or actual concrete facts. @_Title_ could you elaborate more on this please?
> 
> Well Ludi, until someone can produce a reasonable explanation or new information to convince me otherwise, I think I'm going with INFP because of how her feelings and values seem much more internalized and that's the strongest trait expressed here.


I guess both subjective observations and concrete facts. I remember concrete facts, and I also use the facts to make observations, which I also remember.

It's weird though. I've always been so focused on other people, that never seemed like something an introvert would be like. I only need to recharge by myself very rarely. I just don't get how it equates to introvert. Maybe I'm stereotyping again.


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## Ludi (Dec 25, 2011)

Title said:


> I guess both subjective observations and concrete facts. I remember concrete facts, and I also use the facts to make observations, which I also remember.
> 
> It's weird though. I've always been so focused on other people, that never seemed like something an introvert would be like. I only need to recharge by myself very rarely. I just don't get how it equates to introvert. Maybe I'm stereotyping again.


Explain «other people».


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

Ludi said:


> Explain «other people».


Other people...friends, famous people I admire, family.
For example, if something interesting happens, the first thing I want to do is tell my friends about it. I spend most of my time interacting with other people, albeit online. I just think other people are really interesting, who they are and how they "work". It's enjoyable for me to spend time with a group of friends, and I can be very outgoing and even "wild" when I'm with those who I feel comfortable with.
I'm not sure though. I've upset a friend before because I got distracted posting a message on a forum about myself instead of talking to her, ha. But I do like being with people that I'm close to, or that I have a lot of fun with.


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## Ludi (Dec 25, 2011)

Title said:


> Other people...friends, famous people I admire, family.
> For example, if something interesting happens, the first thing I want to do is tell my friends about it. I spend most of my time interacting with other people, albeit online. I just think other people are really interesting, who they are and how they "work". It's enjoyable for me to spend time with a group of friends, and I can be very outgoing and even "wild" when I'm with those who I feel comfortable with.
> I'm not sure though. I've upset a friend before because I got distracted posting a message on a forum about myself instead of talking to her, ha. But I do like being with people that I'm close to, or that I have a lot of fun with.


Ah, close ones...and how about not-so-close ones? Do you bond with them easily, do you?


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

Ludi said:


> Ah, close ones...and how about not-so-close ones? Do you bond with them easily, do you?


Hm. A lot of my friends are close friends, or at least people I can hold a good conversation with. I definitely bond more with people by helping them with their problems and feelings, though. Sometimes I tell them a bit about myself so they know they're not blurting it out to someone who doesn't understand.
It really depends what kind of bonding you mean. Bonding as in being able to share interests? Because if a person and I have major interests in common, I can usually hold a pretty good conversation with them. But I'm not as likely to get energetic and wild with people I'm not as comfortable with.


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## Ludi (Dec 25, 2011)

Title said:


> Hm. A lot of my friends are close friends, or at least people I can hold a good conversation with. I definitely bond more with people by helping them with their problems and feelings, though. Sometimes I tell them a bit about myself so they know they're not blurting it out to someone who doesn't understand.
> It really depends what kind of bonding you mean. Bonding as in being able to share interests? Because if a person and I have major interests in common, I can usually hold a pretty good conversation with them. But I'm not as likely to get energetic and wild with people I'm not as comfortable with.


What makes you comfortable around any given person?


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

Ludi said:


> What makes you comfortable around any given person?


Well, first of all, if I'm not picking up any weird vibes from them, that helps a lot. I'm a lot more comfortable around women than I am men, but I still have a few male friends. They're certainly not as close as my female friends, though, due to some familial issues I've always been a bit wary of men, but that's a different story for a different time.
Other than vibes, I suppose I would feel comfortable around a person who I had things in common with and I was able to have a conversation with. And someone who seemed both interesting and friendly. That's not to say I'll start spilling my every innermost thought to them, but I'll probably be able to have a good time with them.


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## Ludi (Dec 25, 2011)

Title said:


> Well, first of all, if I'm not picking up any weird vibes from them, that helps a lot. I'm a lot more comfortable around women than I am men, but I still have a few male friends. They're certainly not as close as my female friends, though, due to some familial issues I've always been a bit wary of men, but that's a different story for a different time.
> Other than vibes, I suppose I would feel comfortable around a person who I had things in common with and I was able to have a conversation with. And someone who seemed both interesting and friendly. That's not to say I'll start spilling my every innermost thought to them, but I'll probably be able to have a good time with them.


Someone's insight:

«But other than that, I wouldn't doubt the quality of an ENFP's friendship. If anything, their friendship can be so strong and close that it becomes a little smothering (at least from my point of view). I think the main thing differentiating the friendship of INFPs and ENFPs (absent of any other problems) is how they react to personal distance and separation. Distance and separation can make an ENFP paranoid and ruin the relationship for them, while distance and separation can actually improve a friendship with an INFP and delay the onset of the stage when INFPs become disillusioned about the relationship and start putting a lot of minuses on the friendship scorecard.

In my experience ENFPs like to keep their friends close so that they can keep their finger on the pulse of the relationship. In fact, they like their relationships so close that it can be kind of claustrophobic for their friends. Also, they often have a bit of a paranoid streak, and keeping people close reassures them that the relationship is solid. If circumstances create some distance in the friendship, sometimes it can awaken their paranoid streak; and that's when I've seen them grow cold on a relationship and drift away from a friend. 


INFPs, on the other hand, aren't as worried by distance. In fact, because they like to idealize relationships in their head, a little distance or a period of separation may actually benefit the relationship in the sense of "making the heart grow fonder." A too-close friendship may rub the INFP's nose in the daily irritations of the relationship and take away some of the luster of the relationship in the INFP's mind. A more distant friendship or even a period apart may benefit the relationship by giving the INFP time to rebuild the idealized version of the relationship in his mind.»


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

Ludi said:


> Someone's insight:
> 
> «But other than that, I wouldn't doubt the quality of an ENFP's friendship. If anything, their friendship can be so strong and close that it becomes a little smothering (at least from my point of view). I think the main thing differentiating the friendship of INFPs and ENFPs (absent of any other problems) is how they react to personal distance and separation. Distance and separation can make an ENFP paranoid and ruin the relationship for them, while distance and separation can actually improve a friendship with an INFP and delay the onset of the stage when INFPs become disillusioned about the relationship and start putting a lot of minuses on the friendship scorecard.
> 
> ...


I don't think I do either, to be honest. I think my friendships are pretty balanced. I don't like distance, but I don't like smothering relationships either.


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## Ludi (Dec 25, 2011)

Title said:


> I don't think I do either, to be honest. I think my friendships are pretty balanced. I don't like distance, but I don't like smothering relationships either.


It does not say that INFPs love distance...just that they can benefit from it as stated above...whereas ENFPs tend to become paranoid and break their loyalty when forced to that kind of stoicism.

Which one is more like you?


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

Ludi said:


> It does not say that INFPs love distance...just that they can benefit from it as stated above...whereas ENFPs tend to become paranoid and break their loyalty when forced to that kind of stoicism.
> 
> Which one is more like you?


Probably the ENFP one. I wouldn't make any drastic measures, I just might feel a bit neglected or worry that I had said something to offend them if they needed distance. Or, if the distance was unintentional, I might end up feeling less close to them after we regained contact, even if the distance was only for a few days or a week.


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## Ludi (Dec 25, 2011)

Title said:


> Probably the ENFP one. I wouldn't make any drastic measures, I just might feel a bit neglected or worry that I had said something to offend them if they needed distance. Or, if the distance was unintentional, I might end up feeling less close to them after we regained contact, even if the distance was only for a few days or a week.


Why less close? What would you feel? What needs of yours would be left unfulfilled? Would you then try to find «Another John» for example, for even better-looking, for instance, if you felt that the other person were creating distance on purpose?


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

Ludi said:


> Why less close? What would you feel? What needs of yours would be left unfulfilled? Would you then try to find «Another John» for example, for even better-looking, for instance, if you felt that the other person were creating distance on purpose?


Maybe I'd just forget about all the fun we had, or I'd have found other people I enjoy spending time with in the meantime. It depends who it is, how long I've known them, etc.
If the other person were creating distance on purpose, I'd probably ask them why. I mean, no point in assuming something negative that may or may not be true.


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## Ludi (Dec 25, 2011)

Title said:


> Maybe I'd just forget about all the fun we had, or I'd have found other people I enjoy spending time with in the meantime. It depends who it is, how long I've known them, etc.
> If the other person were creating distance on purpose, I'd probably ask them why. I mean, no point in assuming something negative that may or may not be true.


But you'd still prefer that more exciting someone else, someone that cheers up your day...than go on and clash with the other person to vent all your inner feelings and find out about their own messed up inner life?


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## paper lilies (Dec 6, 2011)

Any type can be deemed "weird" in school. This is becoming highly stereotypical.
This is why so many people mistype. People truly think that SP's and SJ's were the popular kids and all N's were the bullied weirdos. This is not true at all. There are sensors on PersonalityCafe that have shared their stories about being called weird and getting bullied in school. I have also seen it first hand.

Read these:

http://personalitycafe.com/myers-briggs-forum/19838-form-inferior-ifp.html
http://personalitycafe.com/myers-briggs-forum/19841-form-inferior-enp.html
The Form of the Inferior - ESPs

Which do you relate to more?


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## VivianeScrooge (Oct 22, 2011)

Title said:


> Hm. A lot of my friends are close friends, or at least people I can hold a good conversation with. I definitely bond more with people by helping them with their problems and feelings, though. Sometimes I tell them a bit about myself so they know they're not blurting it out to someone who doesn't understand.
> It really depends what kind of bonding you mean. Bonding as in being able to share interests? Because if a person and I have major interests in common, I can usually hold a pretty good conversation with them. But I'm not as likely to get energetic and wild with people I'm not as comfortable with.


I'm sorry I'm asking this, but why people ostracize you exactly?


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

Ludi said:


> But you'd still prefer that more exciting someone else, someone that cheers up your day...than go on and clash with the other person to vent all your inner feelings and find out about their own messed up inner life?


I'm sorry, I don't really understand the question.



paper lilies said:


> Any type can be deemed "weird" in school. This is becoming highly stereotypical.
> This is why so many people mistype. People truly think that SP's and SJ's were the popular kids and all N's were the bullied weirdos. This is not true at all. There are sensors on PersonalityCafe that have shared their stories about being called weird and getting bullied in school. I have also seen it first hand.
> 
> Read these:
> ...


The ESP one, I only really relate to internal confusion.
The ENP one, I relate to all of them to some extent but mostly withdrawal and depression.
The IFP one, I relate to all of them to some extent but mostly judgement of incompetence. I was actually surprised when I read that, I didn't know that was a "thing" linked to any particular type!



VivianeScrooge said:


> I'm sorry I'm asking this, but why people ostracize you exactly?


I'm not entirely sure, there could be a lot of reasons why. Maybe it's because I've never really been "out there" and super social, although I do make an effort to talk to people. I was always kind of just the kid who got picked last for everything. I haven't been bullied for a long time, since in 7th grade or so, but whenever I would make a group of friends I kind of had the feeling that not all of them liked me. (And those feelings were usually right.) I'd either not say anything at all and just sort of sit there and not get drawn into any conversations, or I'd shock all the other people with my bluntness -- depends who the group of friends were.


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

wow, you just agreed with INFP @[email protected]
Maybe that's why this is the 81st reply and you haven't found out if you're ESFP or ENFP yet


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

Acerbusvenator said:


> wow, you just agreed with INFP @[email protected]
> Maybe that's why this is the 81st reply and you haven't found out if you're ESFP or ENFP yet


Maybe I'm just a thrillingly complex character 
I know you can't change your type, but I FEEL like an introvert right now. I just got back from a pretty big social event with 3 hours of being around people, and it put me in an irritable and critical mood even though nothing bad happened while I was there. Also, my head hurts. Sometimes I want nothing more than to be around people and other times they irritate me to no end.


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## paper lilies (Dec 6, 2011)

Title said:


> The ESP one, I only really relate to internal confusion.
> The ENP one, I relate to all of them to some extent but mostly withdrawal and depression.
> The IFP one, I relate to all of them to some extent but mostly judgement of incompetence. I was actually surprised when I read that, I didn't know that was a "thing" linked to any particular type!


I'm definitely starting to think that you use inferior Te.
If this is true, then that would mean you are an introvert.
I'm really thinking that ISFP is a definite possibility right now.
I am still seeing Se in your answers and I can see the Ni as well.
Example: _"But whenever I would make a group of friends I kind of had the feeling that not all of them liked me. (And those feelings were usually right.)"_
This is a common thing amongst ISFP's. It's indicative of an Fi-Ni loop.
You also said that your enneagram is 6w7- which I completely agree with.
I think you may be a social oriented 6w7 as well which would also go along with the example where I quoted you above and it would also explain why you question extroversion.


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

paper lilies said:


> I'm definitely starting to think that you use inferior Te.
> If this is true, then that would mean you are an introvert.
> I'm really thinking that ISFP is a definite possibility right now.
> I am still seeing Se in your answers and I can see the Ni as well.
> ...


So...INFP and ISFP are the types that use interior Te? What makes you think I do?
I'm also not entirely certain that I'm 6w7 -- I'm pretty definitely type 6 (primarily counterphobic from my understanding) but I don't know how to tell the difference between 6w5 and 6w7.
I mean, Si sounds more like something I would use, but again...if I were that certain of it, I wouldn't have made this thread!
My dad is an ISFP, I think, and we agree on a lot of topics -- although, just yesterday, we had a conversation where I was posing a "what if?" situation and he said something along the lines of, "I don't fantasize about things unless I think I can make them possibilities." Which doesn't really apply to me, I'll fantasize about anything and everything I want or don't want to happen, if I'm in the mood.


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## Wakachi (May 24, 2012)

Title said:


> So...INFP and ISFP are the types that use interior Te? What makes you think I do?
> I'm also not entirely certain that I'm 6w7 -- I'm pretty definitely type 6 (primarily counterphobic from my understanding) but I don't know how to tell the difference between 6w5 and 6w7.
> I mean, Si sounds more like something I would use, but again...if I were that certain of it, I wouldn't have made this thread!
> My dad is an ISFP, I think, and we agree on a lot of topics -- although, just yesterday, we had a conversation where I was posing a "what if?" situation and he said something along the lines of, "I don't fantasize about things unless I think I can make them possibilities." Which doesn't really apply to me, I'll fantasize about anything and everything I want or don't want to happen, if I'm in the mood.


Let's say you have a crazy boy/girlfriend who suddenly starts snooping around on your phone, computer and everything related to your private space. He suddenly starts to yell at you and accusing you of cheating and disrespecting the relationship but the fact is, you did not do anything...wrong, technically. 

Now, here's some more weight to the situation: earlier the day, your teacher/boss criticized your failed exam paper/performance and used you as an example to the class. Your dad also stated that he's dissapointed in you and on top of that, your whole room is a mess.

What will you feel, do, and think?


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

Wakachi said:


> Let's say you have a crazy boy/girlfriend who suddenly starts snooping around on your phone, computer and everything related to your private space. He suddenly starts to yell at you and accusing you of cheating and disrespecting the relationship but the fact is, you did not do anything...wrong, technically.
> 
> What will you feel, do, and think?


If I weren't cheating or doing anything wrong? I'd ask them how they got to the conclusion that I was cheating, and I guess try to deny it and talk it out with them, although if they actually started _yelling _at me I'd definitely end up getting defensively aggressive -- I hate it when people yell at me. If they were absolutely irrational and not listening to me, I'd probably just walk away. I'd end up feeling guilty after a while, though, and I'd definitely try to talk some sense into them.


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## VivianeScrooge (Oct 22, 2011)

Title said:


> I'm not entirely sure, there could be a lot of reasons why. Maybe it's because I've never really been "out there" and super social, although I do make an effort to talk to people. I was always kind of just the kid who got picked last for everything. I haven't been bullied for a long time, since in 7th grade or so, but whenever I would make a group of friends I kind of had the feeling that not all of them liked me. (And those feelings were usually right.) I'd either not say anything at all and just sort of sit there and not get drawn into any conversations, or I'd shock all the other people with my bluntness -- depends who the group of friends were.


You sounded a lot like my younger sister(she's an INFP).Hmm...

Are you nostalgic?


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

VivianeScrooge said:


> You sounded a lot like my younger sister(she's an INFP).Hmm...
> 
> Are you nostalgic?


Yeah, I do have a lot of nostalgia. Actually, really weird feelings of nostalgia. Like, some situations trigger a feeling in the pit of my stomach, it's almost impossible to explain -- it's like I'm being touched by the thing that makes me nostalgic. Sounds pretty weird, but that's the best way I can explain it.


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## VivianeScrooge (Oct 22, 2011)

Title said:


> Yeah, I do have a lot of nostalgia. Actually, really weird feelings of nostalgia. Like, some situations trigger a feeling in the pit of my stomach, it's almost impossible to explain -- it's like I'm being touched by the thing that makes me nostalgic. Sounds pretty weird, but that's the best way I can explain it.


Do you confront people you're angry at, or you ran to your imagination?

(there will be a long list of questions, be patient until I have enough amount of knowledge to determine you properly!  )


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

VivianeScrooge said:


> Do you confront people you're angry at, or you ran to your imagination?
> 
> (there will be a long list of questions, be patient until I have enough amount of knowledge to determine you properly!  )


No, I love questions about myself! I'm pretty vain, haha.

Depends who it is! If I were in a place to do so, probably confront them. But I wouldn't do it if it would be an unwise decision, or cause unnecessary drama. Or if it's just me being moody and it's not actually their fault, which tends to happen. If I didn't speak up to their face, I'd probably vent about it to someone else, though, it's hard for me to contain my anger.


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## VivianeScrooge (Oct 22, 2011)

Title said:


> No, I love questions about myself! I'm pretty vain, haha.
> 
> Depends who it is! If I were in a place to do so, probably confront them. But I wouldn't do it if it would be an unwise decision, or cause unnecessary drama. Or if it's just me being moody and it's not actually their fault, which tends to happen. If I didn't speak up to their face, I'd probably vent about it to someone else, though, it's hard for me to contain my anger.


Do you like communicating your ideas, or make it to something tangible?
example :

You have an idea about "It would be great to make a movie with this plot and that", you discuss it to a couple of people, asking them whether your idea is great, seek more information about making movies. Watch a couple of great movies you're inspired with, read books and really push your limits in preparing this movie to be something new and cool.

Or

You have an idea about "It would be great to make a movie with this plot and that.", you bring your camera to someplace beautiful that you imagine, film the best you could on that day. And come back the next day, gradually getting better at it after making several short clips. You learn the best camera angles, what kind of light you like, etc.

(You absolutely could do both, but base your answer with which one you feel most naturally doing it.)


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

VivianeScrooge said:


> Do you like communicating your ideas, or make it to something tangible?
> example :
> 
> You have an idea about "It would be great to make a movie with this plot and that", you discuss it to a couple of people, asking them whether your idea is great, seek more information about making movies. Watch a couple of great movies you're inspired with, read books and really push your limits in preparing this movie to be something new and cool.
> ...


Definitely the first one.


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## paper lilies (Dec 6, 2011)

Title said:


> If I weren't cheating or doing anything wrong? I'd ask them how they got to the conclusion that I was cheating, and I guess try to deny it and talk it out with them, *although if they actually started yelling at me I'd definitely end up getting defensively aggressive* -- I hate it when people yell at me. If they were absolutely irrational and not listening to me, I'd probably just walk away. I'd end up feeling guilty after a while, though, and I'd definitely try to talk some sense into them.


Where I have bolded-- this is where I'm seeing inferior Te.
Where I have underlined is a common thing with Fi dominant users.
Tone of voice is a very sensitive thing for them generally.
I think IxFP is becoming pretty clear here (laughs).
However, after your last post, I am swinging in a more Ne direction.

Your post about confrontation is typical of a counterphobic 6 enneagram.
Also, I would suggest if you want to find out your wing, check out these articles:

http://personalitycafe.com/type-6-forum-loyalist/8554-overview-six-its-wings.html

http://personalitycafe.com/type-6-forum-loyalist/39231-enneatype-6-wings.html

Also, even if your wing is a 5 or a 7, you are still a core 6. 
Wings just add a certain flavor to your core.

So, I have another question for you: 
Is nostalgia something that relaxes you? Is it something that you find comfort in sometimes?


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

paper lilies said:


> Where I have bolded-- this is where I'm seeing inferior Te.
> Where I have underlined is a common thing with Fi dominant users.
> Tone of voice is a very sensitive thing for them generally.
> I think IxFP is becoming pretty clear here (laughs).
> ...


The thing I'm wondering is how I'm an introvert. I'm not denying it, I'm just curious as to what about me says "introvert" other than the functions I use and in what order.

About nostalgia - I don't know if I find comfort in nostalgia, I'd say the way I feel about it is more positive than negative though, sometimes I deliberately try to trigger it on my own. It's weird though, I get nostalgic about things I'm not sure I've even experienced.

And about type 6 - It's still hard for me to tell the difference in myself between 6w5 and 6w7. I think I have a lot of traits of both, but there are also traits of both that I lack.


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## paper lilies (Dec 6, 2011)

Title said:


> The thing I'm wondering is how I'm an introvert. I'm not denying it, I'm just curious as to what about me says "introvert" other than the functions I use and in what order.
> 
> About nostalgia - I don't know if I find comfort in nostalgia, I'd say the way I feel about it is more positive than negative though, sometimes I deliberately try to trigger it on my own. It's weird though, I get nostalgic about things I'm not I've even experienced.
> 
> And about type 6 - It's still hard for me to tell the difference in myself between 6w5 and 6w7. I think I have a lot of traits of both, but there are also traits of both that I lack.


I can't speak for everyone else here, but for me, I'm just looking for your function order.
I'm going to link you to a post by one of the members here, it sheds some light on E vs. I.
Click here: http://personalitycafe.com/cognitive-functions/103557-e-vs-i.html#post2614992

Your second paragraph is interesting to me.
I feel that it is possible that you could be describing Ni.
ISFP's use iNtuition as well but it's in the tertiary position and it's an introverted (subjective) function.

My best suggestion for now is to deal with enneagram later. Whenever you're ready and if you want to, there's a lovely "What's my Enneagram Type?" sub-forum and they're all pretty great down there.


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

paper lilies said:


> I can't speak for everyone else here, but for me, I'm just looking for your function order.
> I'm going to link you to a post by one of the members here, it sheds some light on E vs. I.
> Click here: http://personalitycafe.com/cognitive-functions/103557-e-vs-i.html#post2614992
> 
> ...


That post made a lot of sense to me. I think the outer world is what I find more mysterious than the inner world, because I can always control myself on the inside but you can never really control other people and situations.

Something interesting happened today, though. I got in an argument with a friend (unknown type) because I made a joke about him that he took seriously. He started asking me about my values -- what I do if I feel that other people's feelings aren't warranted. I said that if they're completely irrational and not backed by logic, I don't pay much mind to them. I care about others' feelings if they make sense, not so much otherwise.
I don't know if that changes anything. I still do care about how people feel, but I tend to be a bit insensitive if I think you're in the wrong about something. I'm kind of that annoying person who tells other people to "Get over it". But I try to be gentle with my friends, I would never actually try to hurt their feelings, I do genuinely care about how they feel most of the time.


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## Wakachi (May 24, 2012)

>_< From now on, if a Type me Thread extends to ad infinatum and the patient is investigating herself thoroughly, asking questions and stretching the identity debate, I'm going to put more NE-faces on my dice.

I'm not criticizing or anything, in fact it is actually a good thing to be curious.


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

Wakachi said:


> >_< From now on, if a Type me Thread extends to ad infinatum and the patient is investigating herself thoroughly, asking questions and stretching the identity debate, I'm going to put more NE-faces on my dice.
> 
> I'm not criticizing or anything, in fact it is actually a good thing to be curious.


So I'll just blame my Ne for this ridiculously long thread.
But really, there hasn't been a definite decision on my type. At least we're down to two, mostly? (xNFP)


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## Some Kind of Blue (Dec 14, 2011)

@Title I'm an ENFP teenager as well and I'll start off by saying you talk and express your thoughts very similarly to how I talk and express my thoughts. I don't know you, but I'd say ENFP. It's hard to type at this age though. Sometimes I wish I hadn't got into this stuff at a young age since my brain isn't "fully developed" yet, so it creates millions of little interrelated illusions and I sometimes can't tell what cue means what and what "whats" are real... Typing myself at this age is kinda like WWE. It's cool, but there's a lot of conflict, illusions, and... Weirdness xD


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## Wakachi (May 24, 2012)

I would one day, like to see an ENFJ psychopath because instead of emotional empathy, his cognitive empathy is enough to radar a whole environment of emotional states. I also known a psychopath (idiopath, but still), who I suspect is INFP.

Since a lot of ENFP's claim that Title feels one of their kind, it might be more probable to attempt just socializing with ENFP's on the sub-forum and see how many people are like her in another life, another time. It's not like the fourm isn't filled with mistypes already and it's a chance to get firsthand observation of a personality culture. 

It's not like she has to "declare" anything right away.


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## paper lilies (Dec 6, 2011)

Wakachi said:


> It's not like she has to "declare" anything right away.


Exactly. Many people have even kept "Personality Unknown" under their name whilst enjoying the forum and slowly putting the pieces of their type together at the same time. Some people type as something and then later realize that they were not using the functions they thought they were. 
It's all a learning experience. It shouldn't be pressure filled.


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## Wakachi (May 24, 2012)

I'd like to add that @_Sara_h took about half a year roaming the forums, I believe, to confirm herself as ENTP and not ESTP. However, she discovered herself to be ENFP in a single night long after the confirm! She's actually just happened to be a more cerebral ENFP instead of the expected passionate type. 

I myself took about 2 years, I think, after traveling around a load of mistypes to realize I might be a little more extroverted than I perceive myself to be because being under shadows don't reveal much.


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

Some Kind of Blue said:


> Do you see the world as a billion possibilities and potentials or a way to fulfill YOUR potential and there's many possibilities for doing that? I mean, that's kinda how I thought of it... I seriously think you're an ENFP. Also, if you don't mind me asking (since at first, I was creeped out by the PerC people's over-friendliness and I probably am creeping you out) how old are you?


Mostly the first one. I think the amount of possibilities in the world is beautiful, because there's always something new to do or learn.
How much sway does age have on what type you are?



paper lilies said:


> @_Title_ I am very glad to see that you are being open minded throughout this process.
> I have a million possibilities swirling around in my brain right now but rather than unload them all on you, I want to take a step back for a minute and get you to read the article in this link:
> http://personalitycafe.com/cognitiv...iled-descriptions-each-function-attitude.html
> It may give you a little more insight into the cognitive functions.
> ...


That was a very interesting and clarifying post, thank you! Only thing that bothered me about it is that Thom Yorke is not INFJ, he seems to me like he's INFP...but I'm sure I'm one of the only people who gives a damn about that. And I guess that's an argument for another day on another topic.

Yes, I experience empathy if I guess I agree with the other person's feelings. I can be very insensitive if I think you're being ridiculous -- as I posted about earlier, I got in an argument with a friend of mine because he took offense to a joke, and frankly I found his argument rigid and partially (not entirely) ridiculous. So when he got incredibly upset with me, I wanted to shake him by the shoulders and say, "Get the hell over it!"
But I still care about how other people feel. My friends, at least, I want to make sure they're comfortable and happy, and sometimes if a friend is in a really rough place it can put me in a bad mood too and make me withdraw from the world.

I have trouble verbalizing the way I feel in a lot of situations. When I was younger, I used to go to therapy regularly, and I would always attempt to deflect the questions about how I felt so I could talk about something like music. It's hard for me to tell someone that I deeply appreciate what they've done, or about rough situations I've gone through in the past, especially in person. I always cry when I get emotional, and I hate crying in front of other people, plus it's just really hard to get the things I'm feeling out in the open.



sparkles said:


> If the answers to those are yes, yes, and no to sharing/no to easy... that doesn't answer the original question. As an ESFP that would be my set of answers.
> 
> Bottom line, OP. Do you prefer to talk about abstract things or concrete things. Do you like to talk about the here and now, current events, the immediate environment or real life events from history - or do you get more of a zing from talking about possibilities, abstract theories with no practical application? Do you like to talk about hypothetical situations even if there's really no chance you'll play them out, or do you tend not to do this?


Both? I talk about both, honestly. I'll talk about my day or music or someone I know or someone famous, but I still enjoy having a hypothetical intellectual conversation with someone. I do like considering different scenarios, I get a lot of joy from that. And although I usually keep these scenarios to myself, I sometimes like talking about them with my friends.



sparkles said:


> If you tend to use Se or Si more often, you tend to have an easier time processing information through direct experience or comparing present experience to the past.
> 
> Empathy is probably easier for iNtuitives because it involves imagination. But Fi can be applied in service to generating empathy also. That person's experience touches on part of the Fi-user's inner landscape of values, connecting to the emotions they associate with the similar experience.


I do compare present experiences to the past, for what it's worth. If I can't think of the same situation happening before, I try to think of something similar that happened.



Immerse said:


> Psshh. Don't argue.
> 
> INFP: *[INFP] INFP: A Jungian Cognitive Function Analysis
> 
> ...


I'll do it soon, promise! But I just finished opening night in a musical I'm doing and I'm almost too exhausted to comprehend it.



paper lilies said:


> In any case, I'm not going to continue this discussion because it may completely confuse the OP.


It did.



FacelessBeauty said:


> All of the Fi butthurt in this thread so far is funny.
> Both are capable of some sort of empathy, they have different ways of going about it. Fi users tend to relate through the experience certain emotions before but they don't necessarily absorb people's feelings like sponges, while Fe users take on or absorb the feelings of that person that their with in the current moment and they don't need experience to do that.
> By the way @_Title_ which one do you relate to more?
> 
> At the end of the day she has to figure it out for herself. We can only tell her so much. Good luck finding your type love.


Ah, depends. Usually Fi, I'd say. It depends who it is and what situation...I try to be there for friends even if I haven't gone through what they have. And thanks!



Immerse said:


> Also, http://personalitycafe.com/type-6-f...e-six-loyal-skeptic-timeless-description.html @_timeless_' description is lovely. Look at "*Section IX.*"
> 
> Your Enneagram may skew MBTI results and the way you perceive and react things. Out of all those, which one do you relate to most?


The ENFP description sounds most like me.



Wakachi said:


> I would one day, like to see an ENFJ psychopath because instead of emotional empathy, his cognitive empathy is enough to radar a whole environment of emotional states. I also known a psychopath (idiopath, but still), who I suspect is INFP.
> 
> Since a lot of ENFP's claim that Title feels one of their kind, it might be more probable to attempt just socializing with ENFP's on the sub-forum and see how many people are like her in another life, another time. It's not like the fourm isn't filled with mistypes already and it's a chance to get firsthand observation of a personality culture.
> 
> It's not like she has to "declare" anything right away.


I guess that would be a good idea.



paper lilies said:


> Exactly. Many people have even kept "Personality Unknown" under their name whilst enjoying the forum and slowly putting the pieces of their type together at the same time. Some people type as something and then later realize that they were not using the functions they thought they were.
> It's all a learning experience. It shouldn't be pressure filled.


Thanks 



Wakachi said:


> I'd like to add that @_Sara_h took about half a year roaming the forums, I believe, to confirm herself as ENTP and not ESTP. However, she discovered herself to be ENFP in a single night long after the confirm! She's actually just happened to be a more cerebral ENFP instead of the expected passionate type.
> 
> I myself took about 2 years, I think, after traveling around a load of mistypes to realize I might be a little more extroverted than I perceive myself to be because being under shadows don't reveal much.


Alright, thanks.


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## Wakachi (May 24, 2012)

Title said:


> How much sway does age have on what type you are?


The general idea is that you develop your DOM, then aux and all the way to an "established adult" over time. The idea is based on brain development; some people are ENTP from the start while others may just simply be aware they're NE-dom.

It's for this reason that some people just look at Dom/inferior spines because they're established the earliest in child growth and is the most "fixed" in a brain, while your aux/tert may waver.


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

Wakachi said:


> The general idea is that you develop your DOM, then aux and all the way to an "established adult" over time. The idea is based on brain development; some people are ENTP from the start while others may just simply be aware they're NE-dom.
> 
> It's for this reason that some people just look at Dom/inferior spines because they're established the earliest in child growth and is the most "fixed" in a brain, while your aux/tert may waver.


I dislike giving my age out because if a person finds out someone's significantly younger than them, they tend to unconsciously take the person less seriously. But I'm 14.


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

mypersonality.info typed me as ENTP with 53% thinking, 47% feeling.
I could see ENTP if it didn't use Fe over Fi. But I still care what other people think of me, it's what I consider one of my weaknesses, I care too much about rejection and things. But logic usually takes precedence over emotions in most situations. It's actually the logical facts that influence my emotions, I guess. I can be an insensitive, cold bitch, and that's probably the way I usually come across to people. I think I'm probably just a cynical, logical Feeler. I've been looking through the ENFP and INFP forums, as you guys suggested, and I can completely relate to a lot of the things they say, especially INFP. The "you know you're an INFP when..." thread is kind of scary accurate for me. Especially the spacey stuff. People always ask me, "are you okay? You look really depressed," because I'm intensely staring at a spot on the wall or the ground with no expression on my face -- it's just because I get lost in my thoughts sometimes, even when I'm around others.


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

Title said:


> Something interesting happened today, though. I got in an argument with a friend (unknown type) because I made a joke about him that he took seriously. He started asking me about my values -- what I do if I feel that other people's feelings aren't warranted. I said that if they're completely irrational and not backed by logic, I don't pay much mind to them. I care about others' feelings if they make sense, not so much otherwise.
> I don't know if that changes anything. I still do care about how people feel, but I tend to be a bit insensitive if I think you're in the wrong about something. I'm kind of that annoying person who tells other people to "Get over it". But I try to be gentle with my friends, I would never actually try to hurt their feelings, I do genuinely care about how they feel most of the time.


It seems likely to me that you're contrasting others' feelings with your own. In other words, you have a well-considered, defined matrix of evaluations inside your mind that lead you to reactions (Fi), and what you are calling "irrational" or "not backed by logic" is not necessarily so - I think this might be an expression of your Te inferior.

So, clear Fi/Te at work, because of how personally determined it is; how much sense do feelings actually make? You are gentler with your friends because you value them more, which is another possible point towards Fi.

Also --

I'd consider stuff like this a relative indication of IFP. Your confusion between ENFP and ESFP, but relative clarity with Fi/Te (from what I've read), indicates to me that your perception functions may not be as differentiated as your judging ones. This does not automatically mean that you are a social introvert; Jungian functions do not always do a good job predicting a person's disposition toward people, despite all the stereotypes floating around about them.


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

Flatlander said:


> It seems likely to me that you're contrasting others' feelings with your own. In other words, you have a well-considered, defined matrix of evaluations inside your mind that lead you to reactions (Fi), and what you are calling "irrational" or "not backed by logic" is not necessarily so - I think this might be an expression of your Te inferior.
> 
> So, clear Fi/Te at work, because of how personally determined it is; how much sense do feelings actually make? You are gentler with your friends because you value them more, which is another possible point towards Fi.


Yeah, that sounds like me.
So I could just be...a really disagreeable Feeler? Because they're usually described as warm, empathetic, and agreeable. Honestly, I'm not very warm or empathetic, I wish I could help friends when they have serious problems but I don't know what to say to make them feel better. I can be really critical and impersonal at times, and I'm very likely to say things that other people are afraid to say in fear of hurting people's feelings.


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

Title said:


> Yeah, that sounds like me.
> So I could just be...a really disagreeable Feeler? Because they're usually described as warm, empathetic, and agreeable. Honestly, I'm not very warm or empathetic, I wish I could help friends when they have serious problems but I don't know what to say to make them feel better. I can be really critical and impersonal at times, and I'm very likely to say things that other people are afraid to say in fear of hurting people's feelings.


The "empathetic Feeler" is not a myth, but definitely an undeserved stereotype. I've seen relatively cold/logical Fi-dom, cynical Fi-dom, depressed Fi-dom, selfish Fi-dom, etc.; it depends more on the person's life, background and growth, also in response to the person's current situation.

And, you're apparently an Enneagram type 6, which is an assessment I agree with so far. E6 could be motivated in a lot of different directions, plenty of negative or neutral ones as well as positive.

Edit: I'm sorry for being vague. There's a lot more reasoning I could put in, feel free to ask if interested.


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

Flatlander said:


> The "empathetic Feeler" is not a myth, but definitely an undeserved stereotype. I've seen relatively cold/logical Fi-dom, cynical Fi-dom, depressed Fi-dom, selfish Fi-dom, etc.; it depends more on the person's life, background and growth, also in response to the person's current situation.
> 
> And, you're apparently an Enneagram type 6, which is an assessment I agree with so far. E6 could be motivated in a lot of different directions, plenty of negative or neutral ones as well as positive.
> 
> Edit: I'm sorry for being vague. There's a lot more reasoning I could put in, feel free to ask if interested.


Ah, makes sense. And I'd love to hear more of your reasoning.

Thirteen pages and counting...incredible. Looks like it's just down to ENFP/INFP for sure...they're pretty similar types...if the forums on here are anything to go by, I fit the description of INFP pretty accurately, for what it's worth.


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

Title said:


> Ah, makes sense. And I'd love to hear more of your reasoning.
> 
> Thirteen pages and counting...incredible. Looks like it's just down to ENFP/INFP for sure...they're pretty similar types...if the forums on here are anything to go by, I fit the description of INFP pretty accurately, for what it's worth.


Hrm.

Bah, I need to get to sleep before my eyes fall out. I just want to mention that there are some different ideas out there:

for instance, that the auxiliary (secondary, tertiary) functions are less defined than the dominant-inferior axis and hence might not be so stable or clear in different people

along those lines, also, that function use can be fluctuating. Probably the more defined your psyche, the more the rest of your functions will be slave to the dominant, because the dominant will be the most in-depth function, but within that framework they can fluctuate, and so you might have an INFP that looks more like Fi > Si > Ne > Te in common use, etc.

As for the Enneagram typing, keep in mind that what Enneagram is really getting at is a person's developmental core. It can reach deep into childhood issues, because that is where the differentiation into a type presumably takes place - the conflicts between oneself and one's environment during childhood brings about characteristic core issues, around which the psyche warps into some centrally held ideas that shape the rest of the person's life - motivations, tendencies, and otherwise.

And Stuff. Goodnight.


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

Flatlander said:


> Hrm.
> 
> Bah, I need to get to sleep before my eyes fall out. I just want to mention that there are some different ideas out there:
> 
> ...


Okay. I understand what you're getting at.

I definitely agree with the Enneagram reaching into your childhood thing -- as an apparent Six, I wouldn't doubt for a second that some of the characteristics (need for security, anxiety, constant doubt etc.) have a lot to do with my younger years.


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## VivianeScrooge (Oct 22, 2011)

paper lilies said:


> @_Title_ I am very glad to see that you are being open minded throughout this process.
> I have a million possibilities swirling around in my brain right now but rather than unload them all on you, I want to take a step back for a minute and get you to read the article in this link:
> http://personalitycafe.com/cognitiv...iled-descriptions-each-function-attitude.html
> It may give you a little more insight into the cognitive functions.
> ...


I'm sorry, its a little absurd how some people could not experience 'empathy', except if they experience some degree of autism or the like. 
A lot of feelers confesses to me they have a lot more time expressing their feelings. Though they do express themselves freely, its a bit hard to asses your self in only words like 'do you keep feelings to your self' every body does this to some extend. Its like if somebody ask you 'are you always on time?' a lot of people will answer 'no'.


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## paper lilies (Dec 6, 2011)

VivianeScrooge said:


> I'm sorry, its a little absurd how some people could not experience 'empathy', except if they experience some degree of autism or the like.
> A lot of feelers confesses to me they have a lot more time expressing their feelings. Though they do express themselves freely, its a bit hard to asses your self in only words like 'do you keep feelings to your self' every body does this to some extend. Its like if somebody ask you 'are you always on time?' a lot of people will answer 'no'.


We have already been through this conversation in this thread. It does not have to be rehashed again.



Flatlander said:


> It seems likely to me that you're contrasting others' feelings with your own. In other words, you have a well-considered, defined matrix of evaluations inside your mind that lead you to reactions (Fi), and what you are calling "irrational" or "not backed by logic" is not necessarily so - I think this might be an expression of your Te inferior.
> 
> So, clear Fi/Te at work, because of how personally determined it is; how much sense do feelings actually make? You are gentler with your friends because you value them more, which is another possible point towards Fi.
> 
> ...


This is what I have been saying for a good while now. Fi dominant, Te inferior.
I think IFP is pretty clear in this thread as well.


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## Some Kind of Blue (Dec 14, 2011)

@_Title_ Sweet, you're around my age then! ^^ Dude, don't stress about age differences and such. You can always prove people wrong and show them up xD 

Back to the point, I once thought I was ENTP too. So do a lot of people. Even once leader of our gifted program in school IRL who made us take the test said "Wow, you never seemed very open about your feelings to be feelerish." I just thought to myself "Isn't that the point?" But I read this somewhere:

Fi- hyper aware of how other make them feel
Fe- hyper aware of how others are feeling

It kind of makes Fi look bad, but I still can have some idea of how people feel because of what feeling they make ME feel. Can you relate?

If I were you, I'd just migrate to the ENFP forums and see if you can relate. I've had pretty much every type suggested to me, but nonetheless, ENFP fit me the best. In fact, we did the test in 8th grade and I got INFJ. Fail??? My point is that although your brain can trick you into believing you are a type, it's not necessariy true.


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

Some Kind of Blue said:


> @_Title_ Sweet, you're around my age then! ^^ Dude, don't stress about age differences and such. You can always prove people wrong and show them up xD
> 
> Back to the point, I once thought I was ENTP too. So do a lot of people. Even once leader of our gifted program in school IRL who made us take the test said "Wow, you never seemed very open about your feelings to be feelerish." I just thought to myself "Isn't that the point?" But I read this somewhere:
> 
> ...


Yeah, I was a bit confused about Fi and Fe. See, the thing is, my opinion can be swayed on a lot of topics, and I form my opinions based off of other people's explanations and pick the one that makes sense. But once I decide how I feel about an important topic, there's pretty much NO way that I'll change how I feel about it, and I'll speak up about it even if other people disagree with me, plus I have a strong sense of "good" and "bad", "worthy" and "unworthy", et cetera.
I read once that Fi users know what's going on without being told, and Fe users have to ask why. If that's true, then I use Fe more. But I don't think that's a defining quality of the traits.

Oh, and to everyone who looks at this -- I've done some inner reflection and I'm pretty sure I lead more towards introversion. I feel energized talking to people I like, kind of tired talking to people I'm neutral with, and completely emotionally drained talking to people I dislike. If someone invited me to a party, I'd be like sure, sounds fun, but I know as soon as I got there I'd get super pissed off at all the people and I'd want to just go home and be alone and listen to Radiohead for two hours straight and then sleep for a week. Same thing with concerts. Crowds of people exhaust me.


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

Oh man, the "you know you're an INFP when..." thread is so accurate to me.
I genuinely think I'm an ambivert, but I relate more to INFPs than to ENFPs, though I have a lot of qualities of both, so if anyone asks I'm going with INFP for now.
And I guess 6w5? I'm a pretty critical, analytical, objective person at times, although I can be mushy, idealistic, and romantic at other times...I took the SLOAN test too, and I got SLUEI but reading SLUAI, it sounds a lot more like me.


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

Oh yeah...one more thing. Sorry guys, I know this thread was almost coming to a close.
My friend and I were talking about T vs. F, and she told me she thinks I'm more of a thinker.
And that could be true. I have a very cold, analytical side, and it's hard for me to empathize at times.
But I'm wondering if that could be a result of both Enneagram (as I said, I believe I'm 6w5) and possible childhood emotional trauma or just a bit of emotional scarring -- also the way I was raised, my dad is IxFP but I spent most of my time with my mother, who believes she is INTJ (I wouldn't disagree, it's just that she's not a healthy INTJ either way).
I'm most likely not a xxTx -- with my functions, the only Thinking types that match up are xSTJs, right? And those certainly don't fit me, plus xNFPs description fits me well. I am prone to extreme moments of empathy, although I feel a bit awkward discussing my feelings or comforting a friend.

But. Yeah. Just wanted some final two cents on this from you guys (thank you for being so helpful!)


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

FacelessBeauty said:


> You seem to be more of an Se user based off of your more straightforward analysis of the picture. Maybe it's your dominant function? You seem to be more of a dominant perceiving type. I can't tell if you use Fi or Ti, but you seem to use Ti more than Fi. ESFP or ESTP. I think ESTP might be a better fit.


I agree with xxTP. I get more Ti vibe than Fi, and I think the feeler stuff is more Fe feeding Ti. I do get a lot of Ne from you as well though, and I do think you're an introverted dom. Not sure if I think INFP fits you better than INTP. I would check up both of them because I could relate to some that you wrote as well as a Ti dom.


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Title said:


> ...what function is the function responsible for forgetting everything you think 5 seconds after you think it, zoning out in the middle of almost every sentence, and walking into the kitchen to get something and leaving empty-handed? Because that's definitely up there on my functions, lol.


That's Ne, lol :laughing:
I "lost" my bike yesterday when I went to the store because I was in my own mind when exiting the store, so I walked home without realizing that I hadn't taken the bike with me, lol.
Realized it today and thought that the bike was stolen for a while because it wasn't at home


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

FacelessBeauty said:


> Think long and hard about it.
> We've had to scrap everything with her. This is one of the last rays of hope.
> She may not seem INTP, but that could be because of overdeveloped Fe or too much emphasis on the Ti/Fe axis. Or maybe she's just indecisive. I don't know anymore. XD


I'm indecisive and self-doubting, and I don't know anymore either.
I don't know whether to feel ashamed or proud that this thread has lasted so long. (Probably ashamed.)


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

Title said:


> ...what function is the function responsible for forgetting everything you think 5 seconds after you think it, zoning out in the middle of almost every sentence, and walking into the kitchen to get something and leaving empty-handed? Because that's definitely up there on my functions, lol.


Where does your mind go when you do these things?


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

FacelessBeauty said:


> Think long and hard about it.
> We've had to scrap everything with her. This is one of the last rays of hope.
> She may not seem INTP, but that could be because of overdeveloped Fe or too much emphasis on the Ti/Fe axis. Or maybe she's just indecisive. I don't know anymore. XD


Yes and she might be in a more open state for suggestions which I also enter when getting type which throws the typing off a bit and shows a lot of what might be seen as Fe? :wink:


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

Acerbusvenator said:


> That's Ne, lol :laughing:
> I "lost" my bike yesterday when I went to the store because I was in my own mind when exiting the store, so I walked home without realizing that I hadn't taken the bike with me, lol.
> Realized it today and thought that the bike was stolen for a while because it wasn't at home


I lost my phone last week, I lose my iPod and headphones basically every day. I lose clothes, I lose food, today I realized I forgot my water bottle before I left the house. So I went back into my room to get my water bottle, and I dropped it on the ground, then I tripped over a cord, and then I put it down to get some coffee, and I spilled the coffee, and then I lost my iPod again. ._.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Title said:


> ...what function is the function responsible for forgetting everything you think 5 seconds after you think it, zoning out in the middle of almost every sentence, and walking into the kitchen to get something and leaving empty-handed? Because that's definitely up there on my functions, lol.


Ne. Blame Ne.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Title said:


> I'm indecisive and self-doubting, and I don't know anymore either.
> I don't know whether to feel ashamed or proud that this thread has lasted so long. (Probably ashamed.)


Perhaps the problem is that you listen too much what others say instead of actually taking a step back and really ransack what you think and feel. We all agree on that you're an introverted perceiver, but the question is really T or F. The way for you to truly discover your type would then be to actually look into yourself. Are you a thinker or are you a feeler? 

What do you think is important to you? Values or principles? Facts or emotions? I would also do a value test for fun. What are you top 10 values you think are important to you? Again, introspection is key. I don't really get Te from this conversation though but I do get plenty of Fe.

Values Introduction

This is a very long test by the way. Try to narrow it down to 10 values before you compare and start weighing them. The less the better.


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

LeaT said:


> Ne. Blame Ne.


I thought it was Ne, but I wasn't sure.
"Blame Ne" should be my new slogan when I do silly things like that.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Title said:


> I don't think of myself as an emotionless robot, just someone who feels awkward talking about how they feel, I guess.
> In what ways are we similar?


Our similarity with the apparently strong Fi and Ti. Out of all the INTPs on the subforum, I often experience myself as a little pseudo INFP at times, especially when I'm moody.


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

LeaT said:


> Our similarity with the apparently strong Fi and Ti. Out of all the INTPs on the subforum, I often experience myself as a little pseudo INFP at times, especially when I'm moody.


I think I have fairly strong Te as well D: I'm not sure though. Are there any posts on here comparing Te+Fi with Ti+Fe...?


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## iscem42 (Dec 2, 2011)

@_Title_ I'm not too sure about this (haven't known many Ne doms irl), but I relate strongly to what you said about the forgetful / spacy aspect of Ne and think it may be something that has to do with auxiliary Ne in particular. Ne doms seem to be better at getting their ideas out before the Ti or Fi filter decides to hyper-scrutinize whatever's popped into their head, but maybe it's just because they're more willing to start talking and keep talking as they get their Ne inspiration.


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

iscem42 said:


> @_Title_ I'm not too sure about this (haven't known many Ne doms irl), but I relate strongly to what you said about the forgetful / spacy aspect of Ne and think it may be something that has to do with auxiliary Ne in particular. Ne doms seem to be better at getting their ideas out before the Ti or Fi filter decides to hyper-scrutinize whatever's popped into their head, but maybe it's just because they're more willing to start talking and keep talking as they get their Ne inspiration.


So that narrows it down to...INTP and INFP? xD


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

Title said:


> So that narrows it down to...INTP and INFP? xD


Based on the way you respond to us, INTP seems much more likely. XD


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Title said:


> I think I have fairly strong Te as well D: I'm not sure though. Are there any posts on here comparing Te+Fi with Ti+Fe...?


I also have a strong Te  

Te + Fi = ExTJ. Fi values are used to reinforce Te. When fed into Te, Te ignores facts that do not fit into the Fi value system. Makes Te more subjective. 

Fi + Te = IxFP. Te feeds Fi facts that fit into the Fi value system. Makes Fi more open to consider other possibilities.


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

FacelessBeauty said:


> Based on the way you respond to us, INTP seems much more likely. XD


I'm just in touch with my sarcastic side!...often!


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Title said:


> So that narrows it down to...INTP and INFP? xD


And your avatar is so funny because on the other hand, it's a guy in a thinker pose, but there's also a certain Fi feel to it, perhaps because of its particular aesthetics. It's really funny.


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Title said:


> I think I have fairly strong Te as well D: I'm not sure though. Are there any posts on here comparing Te+Fi with Ti+Fe...?


Rather a weak Ti 
Think of it as a sliding scale
To the far left is Ti and to the far right is Te.
You can be anywhere on that sliding scale on the Ti side and still be INTP.


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

LeaT said:


> And your avatar is so funny because on the other hand, it's a guy in a thinker pose, but there's also a certain Fi feel to it, perhaps because of its particular aesthetics. It's really funny.


Oh yeah. That was completely intentional.  
Actually, I just liked the picture and I like the guy and the band he's in D: But I'll take credit for it anyways, if you want.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Title said:


> Oh yeah. That was completely intentional.
> Actually, I just liked the picture and I like the guy and the band he's in D: But I'll take credit for it anyways, if you want.


Are you going to take the value test I linked you? I'd like to see the results. I also think it might be useful to you to discover what values you actually consider to be important.


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

LeaT said:


> Are you going to take the value test I linked you? I'd like to see the results. I also think it might be useful to you to discover what values you actually consider to be important.


Oh my gosh, I didn't see that post! Blame Ne. 
I'll take it now...


*1. Balance*(17 votes)*2. Creativity*(15 votes)*3. Happiness*(15 votes)*4. Love*(13 votes)*5. Knowledge*(11 votes)*6. Intelligence*(11 votes)*7. Imagination*(10 votes)*8. Maturity*(9 votes)*9. Trust*(8 votes)*10. Open-mindedness*(8 votes)*11. Logic*(8 votes)*12. Realism*(8 votes)*13. Honesty*(6 votes)*14. Wisdom*(5 votes)*15. Reasonableness*(3 votes)*16. Humor*(2 votes)*17. Awareness*(2 votes)*18. Pragmatism*(2 votes)


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Title said:


> Oh my gosh, I didn't see that post! Blame Ne.
> I'll take it now...
> 
> 
> ...



You actually got more typical T values there overall:

Knowledge
Intelligence
Logic
Realism
Wisdom
(Reasonableness)

Compare to F values:
Love
Happiness

N values:
Creativity
Imagination
Open-mindedness (specifically Ne)
Humor

I wonder if the reason why balance is at the top is because of your enneagram? You score happiness and love a bit higher than the thinker values, but on the other hand, you only got two of them, and I wouldn't say you necessarily value them more than thinker ones.

You seem to value more T values to me anyway, if we quantify the amount in comparison to the F values. I still stick to my assessment that you're an INTP with a very strong and developed Fe. 

Could an Fi dom also take the test in comparison to see if Fi doms prefer more typical F values more than love and happiness?


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Making one, but english isn't my first language and I have a lot of answers to make, lol.
This will take some time...

I need to do 741 answers on step 4


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

LeaT said:


> You actually got more typical T values there overall:
> 
> Knowledge
> Intelligence
> ...


Made a mini version just for you :3


*1. Loyalty*(10 votes)*2. Trustworthiness*(8 votes)*3. Honor*(7 votes)*4. Serenity*(7 votes)*5. Inquisitiveness*(6 votes)*6. Honesty*(4 votes)*7. Wisdom*(3 votes)*8. Benevolence*(3 votes)*9. Love*(3 votes)*10. Creativity*(3 votes)*11. Truth*(1 votes)


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Acerbusvenator said:


> Made a mini version just for you :3
> 
> 
> *1. Loyalty*(10 votes)*2. Trustworthiness*(8 votes)*3. Honor*(7 votes)*4. Serenity*(7 votes)*5. Inquisitiveness*(6 votes)*6. Honesty*(4 votes)*7. Wisdom*(3 votes)*8. Benevolence*(3 votes)*9. Love*(3 votes)*10. Creativity*(3 votes)*11. Truth*(1 votes)


You share enneagram yes?

Still a big difference there.


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

LeaT said:


> You share enneagram yes?
> 
> Still a big difference there.


I believe @Title was also e6w5 (might be mistaken)

Mine are focused on standing up for me and people close to me. (Fi)
She is focused on what is correct (Ti)

Still a big difference even if you take away the loyalty stuff and those that can be connected with my enneagram.

It was a nice test btw. even if it was kind hard.
Makes the dominant function show.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Acerbusvenator said:


> I believe @_Title_ was also e6w5 (might be mistaken)
> 
> Mine are focused on standing up for me and people close to me. (Fi)
> She is focused on what is correct (Ti)
> ...


I agree. I think the value test is really useful in that sense. So you agree INTP then?


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## sparkles (Mar 2, 2011)

As for valuing thinking over feeling, keep in mind sometimes the functions work together. Example, the ESFP will often express Fi through Te. So even if I am running intense emotions, I will explain them in a logical way instead of just showing them. 

I do not know the function order for most other types, but I imagine the same could be true for others. 

ETA thanks @LeaT for posting that values quiz. Very interesting!


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

sparkles said:


> As for valuing thinking over feeling, keep in mind sometimes the functions work together. Example, the ESFP will often express Fi through Te. So even if I am running intense emotions, I will explain them in a logical way instead of just showing them.
> 
> I do not know the function order for most other types, but I imagine the same could be true for others.
> 
> ETA thanks @_LeaT_ for posting that values quiz. Very interesting!


You are absolutely right. I think wisdom is such a value since it can apply to both emotional and factual knowledge. Other such values are probably trust for example. I was mostly interested in the quantification here. T doms and aux tend to favor more values related to knowledge, the truth(s), the understanding of the world and so on than F doms and aux. Their perception of these things are jaded through the F so it becomes diminished and takes upon a different form.


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## sparkles (Mar 2, 2011)

LeaT said:


> You are absolutely right. I think wisdom is such a value since it can apply to both emotional and factual knowledge. Other such values are probably trust for example. I was mostly interested in the quantification here. T doms and aux tend to favor more values related to knowledge, the truth(s), the understanding of the world and so on than F doms and aux. Their perception of these things are jaded through the F so it becomes diminished and takes upon a different form.


Could you elaborate? I noticed a LOT of feeler values highly ranked in my results, but they included things like truth, understanding, intelligence. Love wasn't even on my list, lol.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

sparkles said:


> Could you elaborate? I noticed a LOT of feeler values highly ranked in my results, but they included things like truth, understanding, intelligence. Love wasn't even on my list, lol.


You need to think about what the meaning of intelligence, understanding and truth is. Do you mean intelligence as in emotional intelligence or do you mean intelligence as in a person being able to figure the creation of the universe and beyond for example?


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

My results as a contrast:


*1. Wisdom*(18 votes)*2. Trust*(17 votes)*3. Reason*(16 votes)*4. Truth*(16 votes)*5. Honesty*(15 votes)*6. Intelligence*(15 votes)*7. Understanding*(14 votes)*8. Liberty*(13 votes)*9. Elegance*(13 votes)*10. Freedom*(13 votes)*11. Passion*(12 votes)*12. Empathy*(12 votes)*13. Reflection*(12 votes)*14. Imagination*(10 votes)*15. Clarity*(10 votes)*16. Respect*(10 votes)*17. Simplicity*(7 votes)*18. Spontaneity*(6 votes)*19. Efficiency*(6 votes)*20. Capability*(5 votes)*21. Integrity*(5 votes)*22. Synergy*(4 votes)*23. Ingenuity*(4 votes)

I think I would've liked to merge freedom with liberty now, and I think I prefer freedom over liberty as a word.


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## sparkles (Mar 2, 2011)

LeaT said:


> You need to think about what the meaning of intelligence, understanding and truth is. Do you mean intelligence as in emotional intelligence or do you mean intelligence as in a person being able to figure the creation of the universe and beyond for example?


It's both. I like interpersonal intelligence but I also highly value conversations about life, the universe, and everything. Of course, at one time I tested as INTP, so that could have something to do with it. 

Hmm. It's mostly the social connection I get from those things. I don't think about them much anymore, but I value connecting around them very very much.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

sparkles said:


> It's both. I like interpersonal intelligence but I also highly value conversations about life, the universe, and everything. Of course, at one time I tested as INTP, so that could have something to do with it.
> 
> Hmm. It's mostly the social connection I get from those things. I don't think about them much anymore, but I value connecting around them very very much.


If you prefer interpersonal relationships then yes, F over T. To me intelligence is the akin to knowledge about the universe in an objective sense but also the ability to draw logical connections and to reason using these facts, arriving at brilliant conclusions no one had thought of before. Here you can probably see I'm very much an NT. I like science.


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

I like wisdom because you can have a lot of knowledge but have the wisdom of a stone.
And that test is more the feeling of where they are all generally pointing.

I got things such as loyalty, honesty, wisdom, serenity etc. they are passive towards actual need for "logic" and are directed more like the Fi function (values surrounding the subjective).
@LeaT had instead things such as Truth, Reason, Intelligence, Understanding, Reflection and they are all leaning towards the Ti function (analyzing).


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## sparkles (Mar 2, 2011)

LeaT said:


> If you prefer interpersonal relationships then yes, F over T. To me intelligence is the akin to knowledge about the universe in an objective sense but also the ability to draw logical connections and to reason using these facts, arriving at brilliant conclusions no one had thought of before. Here you can probably see I'm very much an NT. I like science.


Yeah, I use logic but I use it in service of Fi usually. Without the people element or the emotional element, logic bores me. But I like science toooooo


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

LeaT said:


> You actually got more typical T values there overall:
> 
> Knowledge
> Intelligence
> ...


Balance I put more important than everything else because I consider them all values to balance. And by balance, I mean not getting stuck on one extreme or the other, but finding a healthy middle ground. That's really what I aim to do with my life, to get the "best of both worlds" so to speak, to find balance and harmony within myself. And happiness is what everyone aims for, isn't it? We say "I want X" because we think that acquiring X will make us happy.



Acerbusvenator said:


> I believe @_Title_ was also e6w5 (might be mistaken)
> 
> Mine are focused on standing up for me and people close to me. (Fi)
> She is focused on what is correct (Ti)
> ...


So I use more Ti than Fi, then...???
I do believe I'm 6w5, for the record. That's something I'm around 85% confident in.



LeaT said:


> You need to think about what the meaning of intelligence, understanding and truth is. Do you mean intelligence as in emotional intelligence or do you mean intelligence as in a person being able to figure the creation of the universe and beyond for example?


I know this wasn't directed at me -- but when I put intelligence in my values, I meant intelligence as in mental capacity, sort of a mixture of emotional intelligence and factual intelligence and open-minded intelligence and maturity intelligence.



LeaT said:


> My results as a contrast:
> 
> 
> *1. Wisdom*(18 votes)*2. Trust*(17 votes)*3. Reason*(16 votes)*4. Truth*(16 votes)*5. Honesty*(15 votes)*6. Intelligence*(15 votes)*7. Understanding*(14 votes)*8. Liberty*(13 votes)*9. Elegance*(13 votes)*10. Freedom*(13 votes)*11. Passion*(12 votes)*12. Empathy*(12 votes)*13. Reflection*(12 votes)*14. Imagination*(10 votes)*15. Clarity*(10 votes)*16. Respect*(10 votes)*17. Simplicity*(7 votes)*18. Spontaneity*(6 votes)*19. Efficiency*(6 votes)*20. Capability*(5 votes)*21. Integrity*(5 votes)*22. Synergy*(4 votes)*23. Ingenuity*(4 votes)
> ...


Good list. I don't much value elegance or spontaneity, though.



LeaT said:


> If you prefer interpersonal relationships then yes, F over T. To me intelligence is the akin to knowledge about the universe in an objective sense but also the ability to draw logical connections and to reason using these facts, arriving at brilliant conclusions no one had thought of before. Here you can probably see I'm very much an NT. I like science.


I need interpersonal relationships for sure, I don't know if I could ever live completely alone, whether I'm an introvert or not I'm not a _solitary _person overall. I would rather still have people I love around me.



Acerbusvenator said:


> I like wisdom because you can have a lot of knowledge but have the wisdom of a stone.
> And that test is more the feeling of where they are all generally pointing.
> 
> I got things such as loyalty, honesty, wisdom, serenity etc. they are passive towards actual need for "logic" and are directed more like the Fi function (values surrounding the subjective).
> @_LeaT_ had instead things such as Truth, Reason, Intelligence, Understanding, Reflection and they are all leaning towards the Ti function (analyzing).


So...is everyone here thinking INTP or INFP? Because I'm getting mixed answers from a lot of different people. All that's really been agreed on is xNxP.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

@Title what's the reason why you need people around you?


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

LeaT said:


> @_Title_ what's the reason why you need people around you?


Here's the thing -- I'm okay with being alone sometimes. Sometimes I just want to shut out people and be alone (although other times I want nothing more than to act like an idiot with my good friends). But the one thing I can't handle is being cut-off. I think it ties into anxiety problems I used to have; I'm always afraid that if I can't contact someone, something will go horribly wrong and I'll have to deal with it by myself with nobody there for advice or comfort.
So, basically, I can be alone as long as I know that, if necessary, I can reach out to people again whenever I want.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Title said:


> Here's the thing -- I'm okay with being alone sometimes. Sometimes I just want to shut out people and be alone (although other times I want nothing more than to act like an idiot with my good friends). But the one thing I can't handle is being cut-off. I think it ties into anxiety problems I used to have; I'm always afraid that if I can't contact someone, something will go horribly wrong and I'll have to deal with it by myself with nobody there for advice or comfort.
> So, basically, I can be alone as long as I know that, if necessary, I can reach out to people again whenever I want.


Sounds like tertiary/inferior Fe, so you're still either Ti dom/aux in my opinion.

Let's try a different approach: how would you describe your inner world? What is it made of? What metaphors do you think fit? Is everything interconnected or is it more like chaos? Is it necessary that it's ordered? What kind of information do you store there?


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

LeaT said:


> Sounds like inferior Fe to me which again would reinforce Ti dom.


What about tert Fe?
She could be ENTP if she's an extravert.


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

200th reply, lol
We are sure about Ti and INTPs are really introverted and you say you need people.
ENTP is a possibility.


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

LeaT said:


> Sounds like tertiary/inferior Fe, so you're still either Ti dom/aux in my opinion.
> 
> Let's try a different approach: how would you describe your inner world? What is it made of? What metaphors do you think fit? Is everything interconnected or is it more like chaos? Is it necessary that it's ordered? What kind of information do you store there?


Alright. I wish I had a clearer understanding of Fe and Fi, but alright.

My inner world? As in, inside my head? I don't even know how to describe that. It can be a mess sometimes. It's probably a mess most of the time. A lot of weird associations, almost synesthesia (although I've never been diagnosed with it...but then again, I've never asked). Sometimes it's like a file cabinet, most of the time it's like a messy room, just leaving stuff around everywhere and losing things in all the mess, but I think if it were a room it would have to be a very big room. And sometimes it's like a cellar, though it pains me to describe my mind as something that sounds so ominous and eerie. But a deep cellar that never really ends, you can keep going further and further down and finding new things if you're willing to.

I store most things in there, I guess. Memories, facts, feelings, senses, ideas, information, and fantasies, mostly.


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

Acerbusvenator said:


> 200th reply, lol
> We are sure about Ti and INTPs are really introverted and you say you need people.
> ENTP is a possibility.


It could be a possibility. On a recent assessment, I got 52% extroverted, 48% introverted, so I'm really more of an ambivert.

I could just be an extrovert who gets sick of people easily, lol.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

FacelessBeauty said:


> What about tert Fe?
> She could be ENTP if she's an extravert.


I edited my post but you managed to ninja quote damnit!


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Title said:


> Alright. I wish I had a clearer understanding of Fe and Fi, but alright.
> 
> My inner world? As in, inside my head? I don't even know how to describe that. It can be a mess sometimes. It's probably a mess most of the time. A lot of weird associations, almost synesthesia (although I've never been diagnosed with it...but then again, I've never asked). Sometimes it's like a file cabinet, most of the time it's like a messy room, just leaving stuff around everywhere and losing things in all the mess, but I think if it were a room it would have to be a very big room. And sometimes it's like a cellar, though it pains me to describe my mind as something that sounds so ominous and eerie. But a deep cellar that never really ends, you can keep going further and further down and finding new things if you're willing to.
> 
> I store most things in there, I guess. Memories, facts, feelings, senses, ideas, information, and fantasies, mostly.


Ignore functions. That's irrelevant. Let the typers do that for you :tongue: 

That settles it. Ne dom :tongue: I think only Ne doms would describe their inner world as so chaotic. I think of mine if I have to use visual metaphors as drawers with neatly sorted information. Although this image makes it more justice:









I want to add that ENTPs are the most introverted of the extraverts with ENTJs.


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

LeaT said:


> Ignore functions. That's irrelevant. Let the typers do that for you :tongue:
> 
> That settles it. Ne dom :tongue: I think only Ne doms would describe their inner world as so chaotic. I think of mine if I have to use visual metaphors as drawers with neatly sorted information. Although this image makes it more justice:
> 
> ...


Is there any confirmation for this? Somewhere I can be definitely sure? Because I relate to INFP so well still, it's weird to switch half of the type completely around...


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Title said:


> Is there any confirmation for this? Somewhere I can be definitely sure? Because I relate to INFP so well still, it's weird to switch half of the type completely around...


You seem quite calm when talking and discussing
INFPs get caught by inferior Te and can get very close minded.
A person on this forum called "whore" is a great example of that. (even worse than me)

We are also extremely sensitive to fights and we can feel it coming and get hurt fast.
I'm not talking the small reactions.
Quite a few times when I've come into an argument with my mother I've shouted something that if she couldn't accept me she should have made an abortion and other drastic comments like that.


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

Title said:


> Is there any confirmation for this? Somewhere I can be definitely sure? Because I relate to INFP so well still, it's weird to switch half of the type completely around...


INFP could be your idealized type. Meaning you want to be it so bad because you can relate to the description so well.


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

Acerbusvenator said:


> You seem quite calm when talking and discussing
> INFPs get caught by inferior Te and can get very close minded.
> A person on this forum called "whore" is a great example of that. (even worse than me)
> 
> ...


Oh, wow, yeah...I probably wouldn't say anything too drastic because I know I would regret it later. And I'm too proud to apologize or admit that I was being too drastic.



FacelessBeauty said:


> INFP could be your idealized type. Meaning you want to be it so bad because you can relate to the description so well.


Ouch xD I think if I gave myself, say, the three types I relate to most, INFP would be in there, though.

I don't really relate to ENTP descriptions though. "If the ENTP was defending someone who had actually committed a crime, they are likely to take advantage of quirks in the law that will get their client off the hook. If they were to actually win the case, they would see their actions as completely fair and proper to the situation, because their actions were lawful. The guilt or innocence of their client would not be as relevant." That's just one example, of course, but I don't feel that way at all. If a person committed a crime and I felt they were in the wrong, I wouldn't defend them at all. I'm pretty ambivalent to rules set by other people.


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Title said:


> I don't really relate to ENTP descriptions though. "If the ENTP was defending someone who had actually committed a crime, they are likely to take advantage of quirks in the law that will get their client off the hook. If they were to actually win the case, they would see their actions as completely fair and proper to the situation, because their actions were lawful. The guilt or innocence of their client would not be as relevant." That's just one example, of course, but I don't feel that way at all. If a person committed a crime and I felt they were in the wrong, I wouldn't defend them at all. I'm pretty ambivalent to rules set by other people.


That's more of a e6w5 reaction tho.
And you shouldn't trust the type description so much.
Development of functions and your memories can make people within a type quite different and especially people with Si who depend on past experiences as an anchor to reality.
And then to add enneagram onto that which is what you do and not why, which MBTI is interested in.


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

Acerbusvenator said:


> That's more of a e6w5 reaction tho.
> And you shouldn't trust the type description so much.
> Development of functions and your memories can make people within a type quite different and especially people with Si who depend on past experiences as an anchor to reality.
> And then to add enneagram onto that which is what you do and not why, which MBTI is interested in.


So even if I do care a good deal about feelings, if logic trumps that most of the time, that makes me a thinker?
...and even if I need to recharge after being around people, I'm extraverted?
And even if I relate to INFP better than ENTP, I'm still likely the latter?
I'm not denying the type or ruling anything out, these are genuine questions. It's just that this whole thing is so iffy for me xD


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## petitpèlerin (Apr 23, 2012)

She's managed to play this thread out to 200+ replies. There is no way this girl is an introvert!

Just kidding. But I'm not. Title, you're an ENFP. Get over it. 

Okay, more seriously, I think you are an Ne-dom (ENxP) and I think you are a Feeler, no matter how logical and sensible you can be. So, ENFP. I think your strong Ne is making it difficult for you to hone in on one type as long as there's a glimmer of a possibility elsewhere. We all have those. (I relate to other types, too. I just know that I relate most strongly to INFJ.)

I have INFP friends and I have ENFP friends, and you sound like an ENFP to me. I could be mistaken, but you don't sound like a true introvert, just an extrovert who needs her alone time. In other words, a well-balanced extrovert.


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

ltldslwmn said:


> She's managed to play this thread out to 200+ replies. There is no way this girl is an introvert!
> 
> Just kidding. But I'm not. Title, you're an ENFP. Get over it.


...see what I mean by everyone telling me different things? Lol, I'm not opposed to ANY type, I just want to be sure that it's me before I say "I am (insert type here)".


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

Title said:


> ...see what I mean by everyone telling me different things? Lol, I'm not opposed to ANY type, I just want to be sure that it's me before I say "I am (insert type here)".


What do _you_ think, so far?

You can bounce around between others' perceptions only so much in this.


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Title said:


> So even if I do care a good deal about feelings, if logic trumps that most of the time, that makes me a thinker?
> ...and even if I need to recharge after being around people, I'm extraverted?
> And even if I relate to INFP better than ENTP, I'm still likely the latter?
> I'm not denying the type or ruling anything out, these are genuine questions. It's just that this whole thing is so iffy for me xD


Well, ENTPs aren't really people persons and their functions does so that they need a lot of time alone to think.
Caring about feelings doesn't make you an F  It just means that you're good with talking about those stuff... 
INFPs totally ____ at talking about emotions because they are so extremely personal for us. (has to do with Fi)


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

Flatlander said:


> What do _you_ think, so far?
> 
> You can bounce around between others' perceptions only so much in this.


What do I think? I think I've obviously got a lot of Ne if this thread has lasted 200+ posts.



Acerbusvenator said:


> Well, ENTPs aren't really people persons and their functions does so that they need a lot of time alone to think.
> Caring about feelings doesn't make you an F  It just means that you're good with talking about those stuff...
> INFPs totally ____ at talking about emotions because they are so extremely personal for us. (has to do with Fi)


I'm pretty awful at talking about emotions, too. I couldn't even tell a guy I appreciated something he did for me the other day, because it was so awkward to verbalize how I felt. I can say what has happened to someone I trust -- tell them something factual about me or my past, but if it came to "how does that make you feel"...ha. When I went to therapy when I was younger, I would deflect everything the therapist said or try to distract them so that I wouldn't have to talk about how I felt.

As for the video, they both sound like me. This is just too complicated. I don't care for romantic, idealistic feelings most of the time, but I still care about how other people feel. Well, if I like them, I do. If I don't like them, I don't. It seems to me that Ti paired with Fe acts a lot like Fi paired with Te.


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Another video


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Title said:


> I'm pretty awful at talking about emotions, too. I couldn't even tell a guy I appreciated something he did for me the other day, because it was so awkward to verbalize how I felt. I can say what has happened to someone I trust -- tell them something factual about me or my past, but if it came to "how does that make you feel"...ha. When I went to therapy when I was younger, I would deflect everything the therapist said or try to distract them so that I wouldn't have to talk about how I felt.


That sounds NTP.


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

The whole thing of saying thank you and things like that feel fake to me, so I have no issue to do so.
The problem is when you get into a situation about something you care about deeply.
And the thing about the therapist is definitely not shining ENFP because they can just go on about how sad their life is :dry:


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

Title said:


> What do I think? I think I've obviously got a lot of Ne if this thread has lasted 200+ posts.


What I saw happen with this thread was a lot of different people come to give you options, with you seeming to bounce between them with no closure; 200+ posts is coincidental to that. But yes, it might be a sign of Ne predominance.

I'm still not sold on Ti/Fe for you, and can't see why people are.


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## petitpèlerin (Apr 23, 2012)

@_Acerbusvenator_

Excellent video. And after watching it I'm even more convinced she's ENFP. Here's another one that might be helpful (the screen says "ENFP vs ESFP" because he briefly addresses ESFP in it, but it's actually "ENFP vs INFP"):


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

Acerbusvenator said:


> The whole thing of saying thank you and things like that feel fake to me, so I have no issue to do so.
> The problem is when you get into a situation about something you care about deeply.
> And the thing about the therapist is definitely not shining ENFP because they can just go on about how sad their life is :dry:


I go on about how sad my life is to myself, if I really feel that way, but telling other people is an entirely different thing. I don't get how people do that! It's not that I don't want to get things sorted out, it's that it's almost like, when I try to talk about deep feelings, I physically can't. It just feels really unpleasant to me. I hate crying in front of other people too, ugh.



Flatlander said:


> What I saw happen with this thread was a lot of different people come to give you options, with you seeming to bounce between them with no closure; 200+ posts is coincidental to that. But yes, it might be a sign of Ne predominance.
> 
> I'm still not sold on Ti/Fe for you, and can't see why people are.


That's basically what happened though, isn't it?


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Title said:


> I go on about how sad my life is to myself, if I really feel that way, but telling other people is an entirely different thing. I don't get how people do that! It's not that I don't want to get things sorted out, it's that it's almost like, when I try to talk about deep feelings, I physically can't. It just feels really unpleasant to me. I hate crying in front of other people too, ugh.


Well, EFPs like it (the EFPs I know always end up pouring it over me :dry
ENFPs also commonly agree to stupid challenges, even if they haven't had a full explanation of what it is about.
An ENFP I knew accidentally agreed to a challenge that a guy friend of hers gave her about who could take "it" up the ass first (if you get what I'm saying) (oh and he was just gonna give according to the challenge rules, so he didn't need another guy).

I believe you're either ENTP or INFP at this moment.


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

Title said:


> That's basically what happened though, isn't it?


I should explain further, on the Ti/Fe and Fi/Te point.

Something we haven't been taking into account so well here is that you're young. A distinct possibility is that you haven't really differentiated your auxiliary functions yet - I would expect to see more evidence of systematic thinking, with some Fe tendencies, in a mature ENTP, and more evidence of personalized evaluation, with some Te tendencies, in a mature ENFP.

I think you _tend_ toward ENFP - some of your own responses in this thread suggest Fi/Te thinking to me, but apparently it is not perfectly nailed down.


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

Acerbusvenator said:


> Well, EFPs like it (the EFPs I know always end up pouring it over me :dry
> ENFPs also commonly agree to stupid challenges, even if they haven't had a full explanation of what it is about.
> An ENFP I knew accidentally agreed to a challenge that a guy friend of hers gave her about who could take "it" up the ass first (if you get what I'm saying) (oh and he was just gonna give according to the challenge rules, so he didn't need another guy).
> 
> I believe you're either ENTP or INFP at this moment.


Wow, that just sounds impulsive and stupid, jeez.

Isn't that a weird gap though? They're two apart, how is it that I exhibit more qualities of ENTP and INFP than ENFP or INTP?



Flatlander said:


> I should explain further, on the Ti/Fe and Fi/Te point.
> 
> Something we haven't been taking into account so well here is that you're young. A distinct possibility is that you haven't really differentiated your auxiliary functions yet - I would expect to see more evidence of systematic thinking, with some Fe tendencies, in a mature ENTP, and more evidence of personalized evaluation, with some Te tendencies, in a mature ENFP.
> 
> I think you _tend_ toward ENFP - some of your own responses in this thread suggest Fi/Te thinking to me, but it is not perfectly nailed down.


I've definitely taken that into account, yeah.
And I wouldn't be surprised if I do tend toward ENFP, but I don't think there's necessarily any one type that just fits me to a T or anything. Not yet, anyways.


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

Title said:


> I've definitely taken that into account, yeah.
> And I wouldn't be surprised if I do tend toward ENFP, but I don't think there's necessarily any one type that just fits me to a T or anything. Not yet, anyways.


So why are you looking so hard?  Or rather, why does it bother you not to have a type? Which is what I think you told me earlier, correct me if I'm wrong.


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

Flatlander said:


> So why are you looking so hard?  Or rather, why does it bother you not to have a type? Which is what I think you told me earlier, correct me if I'm wrong.


I guess it's because I'm so interested in the whole process of the personality types. It feels weird. I just want a concrete answer, sometimes I get so caught up in my own jumping from possibility to possibility I just need someone to tell me, "This is what's going on." I'm definitely making this more complicated than need be.


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Title said:


> Wow, that just sounds impulsive and stupid, jeez.
> 
> Isn't that a weird gap though? They're two apart, how is it that I exhibit more qualities of ENTP and INFP than ENFP or INTP?.


Well, if we think that you idealize INFP then you will use your Ne to simulate and adapt to what is seen as customary for INFPs, hence making an INFP clone.
Thing is that cloning the behavior means that you might identify with them, but you won't actually be like that in reality.
We are all idealizing another type because we got some type that we admire a lot.
I for example admire INFJs a lot and thus I can be seen as INFJ by a lot of people, but it's just a learned behavior which is draining in the long run.

I actually thought I was INFJ for about half a year or something and I started to find it really draining after a while to use that Fe like attitude and hold a smile on my face with people I don't like etc. that when I found out I was INFP it was quite much a relief that I didn't posses those characteristics and I could basically go around freely and calling people I don't like jerks.

I could post a longer comment about the difference about real self and ideals self, which was actually a paper I did in psychology about ideals self and typology because I was annoyed about a girl calling herself an INFJ when she had 0 preference for that function order.


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Title said:


> I guess it's because I'm so interested in the whole process of the personality types. It feels weird. I just want a concrete answer, sometimes I get so caught up in my own jumping from possibility to possibility I just need someone to tell me, "This is what's going on." I'm definitely making this more complicated than need be.


Sounds Ne dom definitely
And I'd even say that Ti is there.
Ti likes to analyze.


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

Title said:


> I guess it's because I'm so interested in the whole process of the personality types. It feels weird. I just want a concrete answer, sometimes I get so caught up in my own jumping from possibility to possibility I just need someone to tell me, "This is what's going on." I'm definitely making this more complicated than need be.


I suggest ENFP for the time being, since Ne-dom seems most probable. As you continue with life - and as you get a better grasp on how the functions work - you can watch for auxiliary development to see if you differentiate into ENTP instead.

(Or to see if you were actually an INFP all along. Hah. )


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

Acerbusvenator said:


> Well, if we think that you idealize INFP then you will use your Ne to simulate and adapt to what is seen as customary for INFPs, hence making an INFP clone.
> Thing is that cloning the behavior means that you might identify with them, but you won't actually be like that in reality.
> We are all idealizing another type because we got some type that we admire a lot.
> I for example admire INFJs a lot and thus I can be seen as INFJ by a lot of people, but it's just a learned behavior which is draining in the long run.
> ...


Oh, that makes sense. I don't necessarily agree that's what I'm like with INFP, but I've definitely done that with some other types at one point or another.

...and speaking of calling people I don't like jerks, I just had a pretty interesting experience with two girls who were attacking my friend publicly -- I may or may not have used the term "degenerate half-wits". But to be fair, it was completely warranted, as they were insulting her mother and her weight and everything and I have no patience for petty drama between teenage girls 



Acerbusvenator said:


> Sounds Ne dom definitely
> And I'd even say that Ti is there.
> Ti likes to analyze.


I do like analyzing, that's true.



Flatlander said:


> I suggest ENFP for the time being, since Ne-dom seems most probable. As you continue with life - and as you get a better grasp on how the functions work - you can watch for auxiliary development to see if you differentiate into ENTP instead.
> 
> (Or to see if you were actually an INFP all along. Hah. )


Or maybe I'll just end up the complete opposite of everything here and catch everyone off-guard: surprise! I was actually SJ.


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

Flatlander said:


> I suggest ENFP for the time being, since Ne-dom seems most probable. As you continue with life - and as you get a better grasp on how the functions work - you can watch for auxiliary development to see if you differentiate into ENTP instead.
> 
> (Or to see if you were actually an INFP all along. Hah. )


We've tried everything but nothing seems to stick well enough. XD


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

Title said:


> Or maybe I'll just end up the complete opposite of everything here and catch everyone off-guard: surprise! I was actually SJ.


Would you consider yourself in a negative/repressive state right now?


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

FacelessBeauty said:


> We've tried everything but nothing seems to stick well enough. XD


Yeah, it's a temporary fix, based on probability rather than certainty.

@_Title_ , different types will do analysis towards different ends. You don't have to be an IN anything to like analysis, either, or a Ti-dom - this preference can depend on different factors.


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

Flatlander said:


> Yeah, it's a temporary fix, based on probability rather than certainty.
> 
> @_Title_ , different types will do analysis towards different ends. You don't have to be an IN anything to like analysis, either.


I agree with Ne dom at least. The judging functions are kind of screwy here.


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

Flatlander said:


> Would you consider yourself in a negative/repressive state right now?


Not really. I'm a bit pissed from the girls who were bothering my friend, but I'm not in a very negative state overall. I'm more or less neutral.



Flatlander said:


> Yeah, it's a temporary fix, based on probability rather than certainty.
> 
> @_Title_ , different types will do analysis towards different ends. You don't have to be an IN anything to like analysis, either.


Elaborate?


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

Title said:


> Not really. I'm a bit pissed from the girls who were bothering my friend, but I'm not in a very negative state overall. I'm more or less neutral.


So, I don't suspect SJ - you don't seem to prefer Si.



> Elaborate?


Analysis refers technically to breaking up a concept to its components. Any type can do this, regardless of cognitive function preference. Any person can enjoy cogitation, especially if they think they are good at it.

The question to ask is what the reason for your analysis is. What sort of understanding do you seek - how do you use your results - overall, what is important to you in this task?


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

Flatlander said:


> So, I don't suspect SJ - you don't seem to prefer Si.
> 
> Analysis refers technically to breaking up a concept to its components. Any type can do this, regardless of cognitive function preference. Any person can enjoy cogitation, especially if they think they are good at it.
> 
> The question to ask is what the reason for your analysis is. What sort of understanding do you seek - how do you use your results - overall, what is important to you in this task?


Yes, I was joking about the SJ thing.

I guess just a deeper understanding? It depends what it is. I like to understand things, I hate being in the dark. I just like collecting knowledge and information about things. It makes me happy to know a lot, I guess.


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Title said:


> Yes, I was joking about the SJ thing.
> 
> I guess just a deeper understanding? It depends what it is. I like to understand things, I hate being in the dark. I just like collecting knowledge and information about things. It makes me happy to know a lot, I guess.


And I was just about to go back to the temperaments to find that.

http://www.reesandengland.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/kts_ii_overview.png


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

Title said:


> Yes, I was joking about the SJ thing.
> 
> I guess just a deeper understanding? It depends what it is. I like to understand things, I hate being in the dark. I just like collecting knowledge and information about things. It makes me happy to know a lot, I guess.


That is rather perception-oriented, consistent with Ne/Si. I don't see anything to specify Ti/Fe or Fi/Te - both types may look at it in this way, though I'm curious as to why it makes you happy.


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

Acerbusvenator said:


> You said that you think before you speak and that suggest N dom
> If you were F or T dom you'd rather start by speaking and then get the information as you go.
> The way you talk about parties sounds like you're quite comfortable with some of that aspects, but you don't like crowds.


I really don't like crowds at all, and since parties involve crowds I'm not big on parties at all, either. They make me uncomfortable pretty much all-around.



Acerbusvenator said:


> Check these out:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


INFJ doesn't sound much like me, by that video.



ltldslwmn said:


> Good point.
> 
> 
> 
> All good points and good to consider. I have a good ENFP friend who writes e-mails just the way you describe. (English being his fourth language adds to the terseness, but still.) My hunch is still that our friend Title here is an ENFP like him. But I think we've done as much as we can do and it's time to let her take some time to process it all and see what she feels she is in the end. I think we've overloaded her Ne and her F and she needs time to process it. And like you said, she's still young, so that also is a factor.


Yeah, I'm feeling pretty overloaded, lol.
I think it's very likely that I'm NFP who is still developing my feeling side -- sensitivity, morals, values, et cetera. My opinions are easily affected though, isn't that a Fe thing?
I really want to have an understanding of the cognitive functions not only for myself but in general since I find the whole thing very interesting 
And as for I vs E, I'll probably figure that out eventually, because it really changes based on my mood. The only thing that bothers me is when people tell me "you are an extrovert" or "you are an introvert" without telling me _why_.


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

Title said:


> I think it's very likely that I'm NFP who is still developing my feeling side -- sensitivity, morals, values, et cetera. My opinions are easily affected though, isn't that a Fe thing?


Fe isn't a reflection of the world upon you, it's a determination of how you relate to the world. 

What is it that's causing your opinions to be affected?



> I really want to have an understanding of the cognitive functions not only for myself but in general since I find the whole thing very interesting
> And as for I vs E, I'll probably figure that out eventually, because it really changes based on my mood. The only thing that bothers me is when people tell me "you are an extrovert" or "you are an introvert" without telling me _why_.


Maybe you are A, for Ambivert. This doesn't make much sense in the context of cognitive functions, but it makes as much sense as MBTI I or E.


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

Flatlander said:


> Fe isn't a reflection of the world upon you, it's a determination of how you relate to the world.
> 
> What is it that's causing your opinions to be affected?
> 
> ...


I'm not sure. It won't always change or sway my opinion but I'll always keep what the other person says in mind if I feel it could be valid. I don't make up my mind on a topic immediately; I have to weigh the options. And sometimes, I don't like taking a side at all. Sometimes it's fun to play the devil's advocate.

And that's what I thought. Because, as of now, I honestly feel like the difference between my introversion and extraversion is, as a whole, almost immeasurable. Maybe I just need to dig deeper


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Title said:


> I'm not sure. It won't always change or sway my opinion but I'll always keep what the other person says in mind if I feel it could be valid. I don't make up my mind on a topic immediately; I have to weigh the options. And sometimes, I don't like taking a side at all. Sometimes it's fun to play the devil's advocate.
> 
> And that's what I thought. Because, as of now, I honestly feel like the difference between my introversion and extraversion is, as a whole, almost immeasurable. Maybe I just need to dig deeper


And so I pulled a new video out of my hat




I'm getting more and more of a feeling that you might be INFP.


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

Acerbusvenator said:


> And so I pulled a new video out of my hat
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I've seen that video before, yeah. I guess by his definition of "recharge", I do that when I'm alone. But I don't always need to recharge when I'm around others, sometimes I'm just neutral, but I usually don't get more energy unless they're good friends of mine. It's pretty odd, as soon as I get home I kind of try to avoid as much human contact as possible, in real life anyways -- not online, online I'm probably completely extroverted but that's the internet, in real life I'm much more quiet and observatory, for the most part. I don't really put myself out there to have new experiences, that's one thing I need to work on, I kind of stay in my own comfortable little bubble even if I realize that I'm missing out on experiences I might enjoy, it's hard for me to make that leap into putting myself out into the real world.
Then again, whenever something exciting happens to me, my first instinct is to tell someone else. Sometimes I feel so full of information and experiences and stories I feel like I'll burst if I don't tell someone else. I have a lot that goes on in my head, so much that I just want to share it with all my friends.


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

title said:


> i've seen that video before, yeah. I guess by his definition of "recharge", i do that when i'm alone. But i don't always need to recharge when i'm around others, sometimes i'm just neutral, but i usually don't get more energy unless they're good friends of mine. It's pretty odd, as soon as i get home i kind of try to avoid as much human contact as possible, in real life anyways -- not online, online i'm probably completely extroverted but that's the internet, in real life i'm much more quiet and observatory, for the most part. I don't really put myself out there to have new experiences, that's one thing i need to work on, i kind of stay in my own comfortable little bubble even if i realize that i'm missing out on experiences i might enjoy, it's hard for me to make that leap into putting myself out into the real world.
> Then again, whenever something exciting happens to me, my first instinct is to tell someone else. Sometimes i feel so full of information and experiences and stories i feel like i'll burst if i don't tell someone else. I have a lot that goes on in my head, so much that i just want to share it with all my friends.


infp


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## Subtle Murder (May 19, 2012)

Title said:


> I want to be completely sure before I start claiming INFP-ness.


The only thing I can suggest is that you spend some time in the forums of the types you think you might be and see which one feels more like home to you. Only you will know which one fits you best. 



Title said:


> Oh man, the "you know you're an INFP when..." thread is so accurate to me.
> I genuinely think I'm an ambivert, but I relate more to INFPs than to ENFPs, though I have a lot of qualities of both, so if anyone asks I'm going with INFP for now.


I identify with ENFP (though I do have my moments where I wonder if I might be an INFP), but I honestly think I am an ambivert. Also, ENFPs can be quite introverted, too. I am very easily exhausted by social interactions. For example, if I am working a 4 hour shift at work, I will basically reserve enough energy to get me through the four hours. If my boss calls and asks me to stay back for another hour or so, I can't do it. My energy is gone, I become incredibly irritable and crabby, and I generally just want to go home and not speak with anyone for a day or two. As far as I can tell, this isn't uncommon amongst ENFPs.


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

It's all about energy.
You cannot be both, but no one is 100% introvert or 100% extrovert.

I really enjoy spending a long time talking to people close to me.
Amongst the best time when I was younger was when I was out with school for a week, even tho that might be seen as extroverted then I don't get energy from other people the majority of times.
At most I just act drunk when I've been around a lot of people for too long but that's as open as I get.

Being introverted doesn't mean that you try to bite people who want to talk to you.
But I do want to bite the people who try to force me to talk to people that I have no intention of talking to.
And the people who think I'm sad and need cheering up, so they stubbornly try to drag me into crowds of people (especially my ESFP sister does that).

But hey, I mean I enjoy team sports and team stuff like that and some social gatherings.

Doesn't make me an extrovert.

Then again, I donno 
I'm usually drained of energy.

Anyways.
ENFPs got an extremely high need for physical touch.
INFPs are more restrained.

An ENFP I knew would basically get depressed if she couldn't hug another person from time to time. (meaning like a few times per day with a random person if she had to).
I don't like to give hugs to people who aren't close to me because I see them as personal and symbolic (see what my Fi did there?).

The only people I hug are my parents, my sister and our cat.

I think another thing she should consider is how strong your values are.
An INTP friend of mine tried to make me drink some alcohol and I didn't speak to him for about a month.
An ENFP who I considered a friend (the one I was talking about earlier) ignored me in school after she broke up with my INTP friend and I haven't spoken to her now in about 3 months or something.

And ofc. last and the one that has annoyed my mother the most of all the things I've done.
An ISTP cousin grabbed my neck and the neck of a friend when we were young and spun us around.
I still hate him and I'll never forgive him. 
It was at least 12 years ago, I'm 20 now.


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

Acerbusvenator said:


> infp


This made me laugh 



La Petite Sirène said:


> The only thing I can suggest is that you spend some time in the forums of the types you think you might be and see which one feels more like home to you. Only you will know which one fits you best.
> 
> 
> 
> I identify with ENFP (though I do have my moments where I wonder if I might be an INFP), but I honestly think I am an ambivert. Also, ENFPs can be quite introverted, too. I am very easily exhausted by social interactions. For example, if I am working a 4 hour shift at work, I will basically reserve enough energy to get me through the four hours. If my boss calls and asks me to stay back for another hour or so, I can't do it. My energy is gone, I become incredibly irritable and crabby, and I generally just want to go home and not speak with anyone for a day or two. As far as I can tell, this isn't uncommon amongst ENFPs.


Especially the more ambiverted ones, I think. I suppose it makes sense. 



Acerbusvenator said:


> It's all about energy.
> You cannot be both, but no one is 100% introvert or 100% extrovert.
> 
> I really enjoy spending a long time talking to people close to me.
> ...


As for hugging, I always get really uncomfortable touching people unless I actually want to hug them. Sometimes I do want to hug people, if I think they're attractive, or if I'm feeling affectionate towards them, or something along those lines. But usually, hugging people is kind of uncomfortable for me, especially long hugs. I've never been a hugger, I'd just rather not -- I hug my family about two times a month max, lol. Except little kids -- hugging little kids is okay because they're just so _cute_ and _little_.

I don't see it as personal and symbolic, necessarily. I'm just uncomfortable with other people embracing me, and expecting me to do the same. As for strong values -- I do consider myself forgiving. There's basically nobody that I like or dislike all the time, and I genuinely don't believe anyone is entirely good or bad. But there are only so many second chances I can give a person before I get sick of them.

Today, my dad pointed out that he thinks I'm probably an introvert because, after performing a show with a group of other people around my age, I was the only one sitting alone on the bench listening to music while everyone else was hanging out and talking to each other  I think I have more fun when I'm with other people, but I feel more comfortable when I'm alone.


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Title said:


> This made me laugh
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The forgiveness part has to do with Fi + Si.
INFPs aren't known as the forgiving 

You're a hard one tbh.

Your second paragraph shows Fe + Se

More than that I can't be sure.

Right now I'm thinking INFJ because of the second paragraph.
I know that we went that road earlier, but we should just check some more.

http://personalitycafe.com/articles/84275-cognitive-function-ne-vs-ni.html
http://personalitycafe.com/articles/63173-fi-vs-fe-101-a.html

Read and reply.

Oh and another question.
When you talk in the phone, do you walk around?
I mean REALLY walk around.

A second question would be if people can read how you feel or if you're an enigma to them (you have the worst day of your life and they think you're happy).


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

Acerbusvenator said:


> The forgiveness part has to do with Fi + Si.
> INFPs aren't known as the forgiving
> 
> You're a hard one tbh.
> ...


People always think I'm depressed when I'm not, I'm just in deep thought. I get asked if I'm sad every day, and apparently I don't have a sad-looking face (you know how some people's features make them look upset all the time?), I just get this intense but zoned-out expression on my face, or I focus on something and I look angry or whatever...I don't know xD

When I'm on the phone? Sometimes I walk around, sometimes I don't. I am a pacer, though, but usually when I'm deep in thought about something, or worried. For example -- when discussing the matters of objectivity vs subjectivity and if anything can really be defined with my dad the other day, I just paced back and forth the whole time. I'm that kind of person, lol.

On the Ne vs. Ni article -- wow, interesting that it had to do with objectivity vs. subjectivity and I just typed that up there ^ about how I was discussing it with my dad the other day.
I think the description of Ne sounds more like me, except the skimming part, I do that. But mostly, Ne sounds a lot like me. I do get that explosion of ideas from one thing. Just last night, I was confusing a couple of my friends by posing some questions about the universe, and "what ifs" and all that jazz. I was really tired, and when I'm tired I basically say everything that runs through my head.

Fi vs. Fe -- I think Fi sounds more like what I do, even though a lot of my opinions are majority opinions. I still have some that most people don't seem to share, but often when I tell them how I feel they have that kind of "oh...never thought of it like that!" moment. It's not hard for me to be objective, but yeah, selfish might be a good word to describe me sometimes...


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Title said:


> People always think I'm depressed when I'm not, I'm just in deep thought. I get asked if I'm sad every day, and apparently I don't have a sad-looking face (you know how some people's features make them look upset all the time?), I just get this intense but zoned-out expression on my face, or I focus on something and I look angry or whatever...I don't know xD
> 
> When I'm on the phone? Sometimes I walk around, sometimes I don't. I am a pacer, though, but usually when I'm deep in thought about something, or worried. For example -- when discussing the matters of objectivity vs subjectivity and if anything can really be defined with my dad the other day, I just paced back and forth the whole time. I'm that kind of person, lol.
> 
> ...


Hm, interesting.
And when I say normally, NEVER count when you're stressed, worried or something like that because then you're not acting like you usually do.

Read this:
http://personalitycafe.com/cognitive-functions/3074-ti-v-fi-closer-look.html


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

Acerbusvenator said:


> Hm, interesting.
> And when I say normally, NEVER count when you're stressed, worried or something like that because then you're not acting like you usually do.
> 
> Read this:
> http://personalitycafe.com/cognitive-functions/3074-ti-v-fi-closer-look.html


Well, I'm kind of a pacer anyways. It's a good way to pass time when you're thinking about something. So yes, I'd say that I pace, but I don't only limit it to phone-talking.

Ti vs. Fi - Um. Both? Ti sounded a bit more accurate but I'm almost unable to comprehend half the words on the page. Not because I have a small vocabulary or anything, I know everything that's being said, but to be fair I got only a few hours of sleep last night and it's hard to actually connect everything...is there anything else I can read?


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Title said:


> Well, I'm kind of a pacer anyways. It's a good way to pass time when you're thinking about something. So yes, I'd say that I pace, but I don't only limit it to phone-talking.
> 
> Ti vs. Fi - Um. Both? Ti sounded a bit more accurate but I'm almost unable to comprehend half the words on the page. Not because I have a small vocabulary or anything, I know everything that's being said, but to be fair I got only a few hours of sleep last night and it's hard to actually connect everything...is there anything else I can read?


Uhm...
Check this if you haven't
http://personalitycafe.com/cognitiv...iled-descriptions-each-function-attitude.html



> *Ti, or introverted Thinking,* is dominant for IxTP, secondary for ExTP, tertiary for IxFJ and inferior for ExFJ.
> 
> It's an attitude that encourages subjective logical decision-making based on our personal and directly experiential ideas of what fits into an impersonal logic framework and what doesn't. When it comes to logic/impersonal ideas, Ti reasons, external consensus can go to hell because it might very well be wrong, no matter how many people believe it or how many experts claim to know the truth. Ti seeks truth for its own sake; it wants to understand the relationships that force frameworks of information to fit together into cohesive wholes. Ti is focused on the blueprint, the design, the idea--while Te is focused on the application of that idea into an objectively measurable process. Externally measurable application is not nearly as important to Ti as internal structural integrity and logical consistency with itself.
> 
> ...





> *Fi, or introverted Feeling,* is dominant for IxFP, secondary for ExFP, tertiary for IxTJ and inferior for ExTJ. Unlike Fe, Fi leads you to draw ethics purely from an internal, subjective source and finds Fe's collective approach to morality shallow and fake. Since ethics are purely a personal ideal in Fi's view, all personal feelings are sacred and allowing any outside views to affect them is patently unethical. Fi treats ethics in the same way Ti treats logic, in that it's something that requires no external context to understand and that should not be influenced or changed by any outside forces.
> 
> The ability to express one's personal feelings and inner self freely and maintain a strong sense of personal uniqueness and individuality is of utmost importance to Fi. (It's also important to Ti, but for different reasons and in different contexts.) I have found that many Fi users dislike typology in general because they feel that "putting people into boxes" suppresses their sense of personal identity, and that people are too unique to be categorized so easily.
> 
> ...


An extra quote just for this



> Ti/Fe = I think/We feel; Fi/Te = I feel/We think.


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

Acerbusvenator said:


> Uhm...
> Check this if you haven't
> http://personalitycafe.com/cognitiv...iled-descriptions-each-function-attitude.html
> 
> ...


Well, based on Ti vs. Te, I think I use them both around the same amount, but tend to favor Te. And that description of Fi, specifically "Strong Fi users often feel a certain connection to the beauty of nature, animals, and life itself, simply "knowing" deep inside themselves that life is sacred and all individuals possess inherent value."
Also, "if it comes from a personal sense of moral responsibility that deliberately blocks out external influence, it's probably Fi." That's definitely true when it comes to the "moral obligation to their loved ones", although I don't block out external influence in all factors, I'm willing to listen to what people have to say and see if I agree with it or not. I don't want to let myself get very rigid or close-minded, so I try to see things from other perspectives than my own.


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Title said:


> Well, based on Ti vs. Te, I think I use them both around the same amount, but tend to favor Te. And that description of Fi, specifically "Strong Fi users often feel a certain connection to the beauty of nature, animals, and life itself, simply "knowing" deep inside themselves that life is sacred and all individuals possess inherent value."
> Also, "if it comes from a personal sense of moral responsibility that deliberately blocks out external influence, it's probably Fi." That's definitely true when it comes to the "moral obligation to their loved ones", although I don't block out external influence in all factors, I'm willing to listen to what people have to say and see if I agree with it or not. I don't want to let myself get very rigid or close-minded, so I try to see things from other perspectives than my own.


Fi isn't open-minded.
Fi is close minded and rigid.

Listening to both sides is more Fe oriented.

At this moment you think you got Ne, Se, Te, Fi
Ofc you can't have all of them, so we need to figure out which functions you really got.

You're not blinded by Fi, which excludes Fi as a dominant function.

Ugh... it feels like we're just bouncing around...

Another try.
Portrait of an INTJ
INTJ Personal Growth


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

Acerbusvenator said:


> Fi isn't open-minded.
> Fi is close minded and rigid.
> 
> Listening to both sides is more Fe oriented.


OR...wait for it...

Fi/Ne.

Ne balances Fi influentially, bringing different possibilities naturally to the table. It could easily become an Fi preference to hear different views and make one's choice among them, or something of the sort.


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Flatlander said:


> OR...wait for it...
> 
> Fi/Ne.


It's more the sum of what she has been saying that doesn't feel Fi dom.
She doesn't really stand up for her values the way an IXFP does.
That's why I just suggested INTJ, since they got tertiary Fi and also got Te which she was sure she had.
Not to forget her more "here and now" attitude of Se and not holding grudges based on past experiences which an INFP would (due to the Si function).
Fi + Si is powerful when you've hurt the person.
She gives another chance.


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

Acerbusvenator said:


> It's more the sum of what she has been saying that doesn't feel Fi dom.
> She doesn't really stand up for her values the way an IXFP does.
> That's why I just suggested INTJ, since they got tertiary Fi and also got Te which she was sure she had.
> Not to forget her more "here and now" attitude of Se and not holding grudges based on past experiences which an INFP would (due to the Si function).
> ...


I'm reluctant to accept that every INFP is the same on that front. I see ways around it.

Plus, if you're seeing Se, then ESFP is also a possibility. I thought the thread had Ne nailed down, though, which pairs with Si, and as dominant, would leave a person less likely to exhibit that begrudging behavior you are characterizing as INFP.


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Flatlander said:


> I'm reluctant to accept that every INFP is the same on that front. I see ways around it.
> 
> Plus, if you're seeing Se, then ESFP is also a possibility. I thought the thread had Ne nailed down, though, which pairs with Si, and as dominant, would leave a person less likely to exhibit that begrudging behavior you are characterizing as INFP.


Just sayin'
What I pointed out as Si in INXP is red marked


Se - extraverted sensing*Experiencing* the immediate context; noticing changes and opportunied for action; being drawn to act on the physical world; accumulating experiences; scanning for visible reactions and relevant data; recognizing "what is"Si - introverted sensing*Reviewing* past experiences;* "what is" evoking "what was"; seeking detailed information and links to what is known; recalling stored impressions;* accumulating data; recognizing the way things have always been
 Ne - extraverted intuiting
*Interpreting* situations and relationships; picking up meanings and interconnections; being drawn to change "what is " for "what could possibly be"; noticing what is not said and threads of meaning emerging across multiple contexts
Ni - introverted intuiting*Foreseeing* implications and likely effects without external data; realizing "what will be"; conceptualizing new ways of seeing things; envisioning transformations; getting an image of profound meaning or far-reaching symbolsTe - extraverted thinking*Ordering*; organizing for efficiency; systematzing; aplying logic; structuring; checking for consequences; monitoring for standards or specifications being met; setting boundaries, guidelines, and parameters, deciding if something isworking or not Ti - introverted thinking
*Analyzing*; categorizing; evaluating according to principles and whether something fits the framework or model; figuring out the principles on which something works; checking for inconsistencies; clarying definitions to get more precisionFe - extraverted feeling*Connecting*; considering others and the group - organizing to meet their needs and honor their values; adjusting and accommodating others; deciding if something is appropriate or acceptable to othersFi -introverted feeling*Valuing*; considering importance and worth; reviewing for incongruity; evaluating something based on the truths on which it is based; clarifying values to achieve accord; deciding if something is of significance and worth standing up for.


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

LeaT said:


> See the below :laughing:


I'm not sure one example cuts it for me, because I've seen many different kinds of Sixes. Besides which E-type influence and other things can distort the appearance of the MBTI in many different ways. I was trying to get past all that and consider the actual shape of her thinking. When I have asked her to go in-depth, I see more self-connection than anything, in a style that looks more Fi than Fe. I don't see Ti-style analysis or thinking - have I been missing something?

Edit: I see what you're getting at. ENTP is still a possibility, though by this point I do not think INTP is.

Question for you - is there any function you've found it difficult to understand, as you studied them?


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Title said:


> I always associated Thinking with kind of being a very independent person who doesn't care much what other people think of them, though. Sometimes I do things just to see other people smile, and I do care a lot about what other people think. D:


ENTPs are less independent than INTPs are for example, because they're Ne dom and we're Ti dom. Sounds like you're a bit in an NeFe loop to me, which is why you can't seem to decide on what you are. I see Ti in you but it's buried deep down for some reason. 

Tertiary Fe also makes ENTPs far more outgoing, social and in general much nicer people than we INTPs are, since everything we do socially tends to come off as quirky and awkward even if we try not to. As I said before, I think the real way for you to discover your true type is to rely far less on us to reach a conclusion but instead actually sit down and think about who you are and what you prefer. You need to introspect to activate your Ti or in the case if you are an ENFP, Fi then. But I don't see why an ENFP in NeTe loop would go this far if the data is so clearly not tangible. Plus, if that would be the case, you would probably actually come off as more impersonal. ENFPs can be really cold when they're in the mood. 

Anyway, I see a lot of things that would point towards Ti aux in this case, one being how quickly you so greatly grasp and understand the MBTI solely based on what others here have mentioned about the functions, essentially. And remember the value test you did. Think about those values and what they mean to you.


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## HamsterSamurai (Jun 28, 2012)

There's no weirdness in not being an extreme example of a particular trait. The only thing I score super high on is T, and I'm definitely a very mild introvert. I use to consider ENTJ, INTP, even ESFP (that would be the crazy part of me talking) If you are down to just a type or two, I would suggest trying a type on and hanging out in their forum to see if you fit in. I've never been so sure of my type until I talked to other INTJs. They make so much sense to me, I understand their jokes and so on... Then I peeked at a few other type forums and the difference became super clear. At this point, it's like you're looking in a mirror and holding up various outfits to see if they look good. I would suggest actually trying one on for a little while and seeing if it fits. That's the only way you'll find out for sure. There's no penalty if you change your mind later.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Flatlander said:


> I'm not sure one example cuts it for me, because I've seen many different kinds of Sixes. Besides which E-type influence and other things can distort the appearance of the MBTI in many different ways. I was trying to get past all that and consider the actual shape of her thinking. When I have asked her to go in-depth, I see more self-connection than anything, in a style that looks more Fi than Fe. I don't see Ti-style analysis or thinking - have I been missing something?
> 
> Edit: I see what you're getting at. ENTP is still a possibility, though by this point I do not think INTP is.
> 
> Question for you - is there any function you've found it difficult to understand, as you studied them?


I agree, I rule out INTP now but my gut reaction is still pretty strong on the NTP part. 

And you're right about enneagram of course, and it's hard for you to assess Brainfreeze based on a couple of posts he's made. I know him pretty well so I can tell that the enneagram difference sets us wide apart. I also think the 6 in this case muddles the whole deal further.* Remember the value she mentioned to be the most important? Balance. The real question here I think is whether she actually wants to be defined into a label that would point towards a specific preference over another preference as that would clearly disturb the mental balance she depicts herself as having.*

As for the functions I find the hardest to understand - probably Se lmao. I can understand the basics of Se but I don't quite understand how it actually works in practice and if I were to describe Se compared to Ne I can't. I describe them as the same because I can't simplify Se enough. I know how Se works when interacting with other functions though, but I can't describe it as a stand-alone thing.

Ni is also a little annoying to grasp due to its extremely abstract nature, but it's more that it's hard to define rather than me being unable to understand it.


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

LeaT said:


> ENTPs are less independent than INTPs are for example, because they're Ne dom and we're Ti dom. Sounds like you're a bit in an NeFe loop to me, which is why you can't seem to decide on what you are. I see Ti in you but it's buried deep down for some reason.
> 
> Tertiary Fe also makes ENTPs far more outgoing, social and in general much nicer people than we INTPs are, since everything we do socially tends to come off as quirky and awkward even if we try not to. As I said before, I think the real way for you to discover your true type is to rely far less on us to reach a conclusion but instead actually sit down and think about who you are and what you prefer. You need to introspect to activate your Ti or in the case if you are an ENFP, Fi then. But I don't see why an ENFP in NeTe loop would go this far if the data is so clearly not tangible. Plus, if that would be the case, you would probably actually come off as more impersonal. ENFPs can be really cold when they're in the mood.
> 
> Anyway, I see a lot of things that would point towards Ti aux in this case, one being how quickly you so greatly grasp and understand the MBTI solely based on what others here have mentioned about the functions, essentially. And remember the value test you did. Think about those values and what they mean to you.


Can you explain to me what a "loop" is? NeFe, NeTe, etc.?



HamsterSamurai said:


> There's no weirdness in not being an extreme example of a particular trait. The only thing I score super high on is T, and I'm definitely a very mild introvert. I use to consider ENTJ, INTP, even ESFP (that would be the crazy part of me talking) If you are down to just a type or two, I would suggest trying a type on and hanging out in their forum to see if you fit in. I've never been so sure of my type until I talked to other INTJs. They make so much sense to me, I understand their jokes and so on... Then I peeked at a few other type forums and the difference became super clear. At this point, it's like you're looking in a mirror and holding up various outfits to see if they look good. I would suggest actually trying one on for a little while and seeing if it fits. That's the only way you'll find out for sure. There's no penalty if you change your mind later.


Thanks for the advice. I don't think it's crazy to consider any kind of type, for the record. After all, INTJ and ESFP use the same functions, just in different order


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

Title said:


> Thanks for the advice. I don't think it's crazy to consider any kind of type, for the record. After all, INTJ and ESFP use the same functions, just in different order


The order makes a lot of difference.


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

Flatlander said:


> The order makes a lot of difference.


I know that. I'm just saying that it makes sense for a person to get confused if they see "oh, I have all of these functions, therefore I must be this type".


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

Title said:


> I know that. I'm just saying that it makes sense for a person to get confused if they see "oh, I have all of these functions, therefore I must be this type".


The confusion comes in when you're unable to recognize what makes you of a certain type. Your functions don't all have the same strength.


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

Flatlander said:


> The confusion comes in when you're unable to recognize what makes you of a certain type. Your functions don't all have the same strength.


Nitpicking


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

Title said:


> Nitpicking


Not at all. It's actually rather important in differentiation between types.

As some of us have noted earlier in the thread, inferior functions tend to show up during times of stress, and you could say that this is what makes type important - it brings it in as a factor to consider in psychoanalysis. How do you act when you're stressed?


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Title said:


> Nitpicking


lol

I think that's an NT response too by the way, because you were so focused on the big picture you forgot to consider the details. You already knew where the debate was going, didn't you?

But will you consider what I wrote to Flatlander about your idea of balance and how this might affect your understanding of yourself, especially with regards to type? Did you consider that you perhaps deep down don't want to be any specific type at all but rather embody several types? I think the brief conversation you just would point towards that direction as well.

As for NeFe and NeTe loops: 
NeFe loops tend to seek out to people to generate ideas but since people generate ideas already, there is essentially no sense of self because Fe already identifies with the group rather than you as an individual. You get stuck in the collective and I honestly think this is what you're doing. 

NeTe tends to come off as narcissist. Similarly to NeFe, NeTe reaches out to generate new ideas, but because Te is impersonal the ideas are reinforced on an impersonal level rather than interpersonal as is the case with Fe. The end result becomes a much more bossy and domineering individual who appears to have a huge ego (Te) and desires to control his/her environment through Te by limiting the ideas generated by Ne, which of course is a losing battle since Te can only reinforce the connections done by Ne.


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Title said:


> Resistant? I wouldn't say I'm "resistant", really -- I just feel like I want to be completely sure, and I also want more of an understanding of the functions.


That part makes you sound NTP.
An NF in general would rather just take what's given and then maybe just making a new thread later so that we don't bother the people by questioning them when they're trying to help.


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

Flatlander said:


> Not at all. It's actually rather important in differentiation between types.
> 
> As some of us have noted earlier in the thread, inferior functions tend to show up during times of stress, and you could say that this is what makes type important - it brings it in as a factor to consider in psychoanalysis. How do you act when you're stressed?


When I'm stressed? Um, well, based on the last two times I've been majorly stressed:
The first time - intensely paranoid, constantly bogged down by fear, obsessive compulsive disorder becomes prominent, afraid to leave the house, resisting connections with other people ("I don't need friends to be happy"), overeating, frequent panic attacks, prominent phobias
The second time - desensitized, reluctant to talk about feelings, obsessive compulsive disorder becomes prominent, occasional panic attacks, crying, wanting to die, ignoring the stressful situation, trying to distract self with other things, overeating, body image issues

...yeah.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Acerbusvenator said:


> That part makes you sound NTP.
> An NF in general would rather just take what's given and then maybe just making a new thread later so that we don't bother the people by questioning them when they're trying to help.


Yus. I also think an ENFP stuck in an NeTe loop would keep making new threads after a while in order to try to generate more and new tangible results that Te can actually use, because threads are by themselves impersonal things. The point then would not be so much the interaction with people as is the case with this thread, but to generate a lot of threads that contains tangible data. The threads become the data so to speak. 

Just look at @FacelessBeauty lol :tongue:

This thread is all about trying to actually avoid being typed by having lots of people keep coming to suggest different things so we're doing @Title a disservice actually by not being able to settle on a specific type, which is because of her Fe overpowering Ti in this case, I think. So our job is really is to try to get her Ti going (or Fi, if you're supporting ENFP more but again, I don't see it) rather than keep generating options for her to consider and latch onto with Fe.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Title said:


> When I'm stressed? Um, well, based on the last two times I've been majorly stressed:
> The first time - intensely paranoid, constantly bogged down by fear, obsessive compulsive disorder becomes prominent, afraid to leave the house, resisting connections with other people ("I don't need friends to be happy"), overeating, frequent panic attacks, prominent phobias
> The second time - desensitized, reluctant to talk about feelings, obsessive compulsive disorder becomes prominent, occasional panic attacks, crying, wanting to die, ignoring the stressful situation, trying to distract self with other things, overeating, body image issues
> 
> ...yeah.


This is not as useful as I think you think it is, actually. We need to understand your thought-process. What were you thinking at the time? What went through in your head and why? But again, this is actually quite a Ti response. You give us objective data, so maybe we're getting somewhere?

The end portion of this point is also very much an NTP thing to say. Ti just cut off the Ne connections completely because it became overwhelming. I call this the tl;dr Ti response to Ne.


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

Title said:


> When I'm stressed? Um, well, based on the last two times I've been majorly stressed:
> The first time - intensely paranoid, constantly bogged down by fear, obsessive compulsive disorder becomes prominent, afraid to leave the house, resisting connections with other people ("I don't need friends to be happy"), overeating, frequent panic attacks, prominent phobias
> The second time - desensitized, reluctant to talk about feelings, obsessive compulsive disorder becomes prominent, occasional panic attacks, crying, wanting to die, ignoring the stressful situation, trying to distract self with other things, overeating, body image issues
> 
> ...yeah.


The general picture of this points me toward an Si inferior. I am now pretty certain you are some kind of ENP. Some of it hints Si/Te to me. Some of it hints Si/Fe.

Fill in your own Ti/Fe or Fi/Te as time goes.


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

Acerbusvenator said:


> That part makes you sound NTP.
> An NF in general would rather just take what's given and then maybe just making a new thread later so that we don't bother the people by questioning them when they're trying to help.


LOL sorry



LeaT said:


> lol
> 
> I think that's an NT response too by the way, because you were so focused on the big picture you forgot to consider the details. You already knew where the debate was going, didn't you?
> 
> ...


...yeah. I wouldn't disagree with that, about balance. Part of the reason this whole thing is hard for me is that the way I act really depends on my mood. But I still have a desire to know which one I prefer. It's just a bit odd for me to say "I am this type" because then I'm expected to act a certain way, and if I don't act that way, I'm "not that type". At the same time, I don't want to fit into other people's molds of how I should act. But that doesn't mean I'm opposed to finding a type whatsoever. I do like having a label for things, although I'm not a sort of rigid labeller if that makes sense. No, it doesn't make much sense xD


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

LeaT said:


> This is not as useful as I think you think it is, actually. We need to understand your thought-process. What were you thinking at the time? What went through in your head and why? But again, this is actually quite a Ti response. You give us objective data, so maybe we're getting somewhere?
> 
> The end portion of this point is also very much an NTP thing to say. Ti just cut off the Ne connections completely because it became overwhelming. I call this the tl;dr Ti response to Ne.


Yes! Getting somewhere! That's what I want to hear xD and it only took 300 posts.



LeaT said:


> Yus. I also think an ENFP stuck in an NeTe loop would keep making new threads after a while in order to try to generate more and new tangible results that Te can actually use, because threads are by themselves impersonal things. The point then would not be so much the interaction with people as is the case with this thread, but to generate a lot of threads that contains tangible data. The threads become the data so to speak.
> 
> Just look at @_FacelessBeauty_ lol
> 
> ...


I agree with that last paragraph. How can you "get my Ti(/Fi) going"?


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Well, the first thing I said was ENTP if I'm not mistaken but I had comments against that so I became open minded.
Doesn't seem very NF to me tho.


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

All I know is that Ms. @Title is an Ne-Si user. We've ruled out about half the types!
Ne seems to be more prevalent so we've ruled out half of those. We only have 4 types to choose from now, and since she seems to be more of a dominant perceiving type, we can eliminate two more. All we need to do is figure out what her aux and tert functions are. We should have her do the questionnaire @Acerbusvenator got stickied because it hones in on the Feeling function fairly well. Once we do this, we can discern whether she is ENTP or ENFP. 
Good plan right? Let's give it a go, shall we?


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