# The Enneagram



## mcgooglian

Calypso said:


> This is why I don't like analyzing this stuff because I just end up getting stressed and flustered the digger I deep for answers. Maybe I don't know who I am after all.


I'm pretty much the same way. I just accept stuff as they are because it's simpler that way. That's why I don't try to type people.


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## εmptε

*Arena is Seven

The other two are fives.

@Admins, if you move the House stuff. Then just move it to my Famous ENTPs thread, thats where all the House argument stuff is anyway.
*


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## Nightriser

5w4. On some tests, I come out as 5w6, but I'm fairly certain that I'm wing 4 (although that could be changing). Anyway, one question didn't make much sense to me, and some others, I could have answered differently if the terms were more clearly defined. ("Fun-loving" is associated with extroversion, but naturally, I would consider the things I'm interested in fun, so I would say I'm fun-loving--for certain values of "fun.")

Variant: sp/so/sx


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## 480

ArenaHomme said:


> I'm busy alot of the time but I'm definitely not in a bad place. Stressed sometimes but not unhappy. Just ready.


It doesnt have to be woe is me life sucks. And unhealthy doesnt have be a bad thing. I'm not making the assessment that people here have mental issues and such... when we stress to a type it is a defense mechanism that protects us, keeps us from becoming unhealthy. This is why no one should take any offense at my use of the terms unhealthy or stressed. I simply mean "less than ideal."

For 8s we're all about assumed strength. It's just a quiet assurance for some that anything life has to throw at me I'm going to be fine. Different types of 8s have slightly different views on their strength, but for most of us it's simply like knowing your vehicle has gas in the tank. And we usually don't give it any more thought on a typical day.

Bad Wolf has more of an Alpha Male vibe to him than I do. He's RAWR!
I have more of an Indomitable thing going on. I'm here I am. I will not collapse under anything life throws at me, nor will I quit.

Both of us will seek solitude if we get stressed. Because both of us fear being controlled. Or having our inner weakness exposed.


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## 480

Calypso said:


> This is why I don't like analyzing this stuff because I just end up getting stressed and flustered the digger I deep for answers. Maybe I don't know who I am after all.


There's nothing wrong with that. What you're describing seems a bit 8ish to me. But I wont be sure until you look over the thread and consider the questions I aimed at Wolf about 8ness.


If you don't want to, that's ok. It's there if you wish to know. If you do, and find the things I've said about 8s match you. I can share tons of stuff with you, that you wont find in any of the profiles out there.


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## ArenaHomme

Bear said:


> It doesnt have to be woe is me life sucks. And unhealthy doesnt have be a bad thing. I'm not making the assessment that people here have mental issues and such... when we stress to a type it is a defense mechanism that protects us, keeps us from becoming unhealthy. This is why no one should take any offense at my use of the terms unhealthy or stressed. I simply mean "less than ideal."
> 
> For 8s we're all about assumed strength. It's just a quiet assurance for some that anything life has to throw at me I'm going to be fine. Different types of 8s have slightly different views on their strength, but for most of us it's simply like knowing your vehicle has gas in the tank. And we usually don't give it any more thought on a typical day.
> 
> Bad Wolf has more of an Alpha Male vibe to him than I do. He's RAWR!
> I have more of an Indomitable thing going on. I'm here I am. I will not collapse under anything life throws at me, nor will I quit.
> 
> Both of us will seek solitude if we get stressed. Because both of us fear being controlled. Or having our inner weakness exposed.


I understand and that makes a wealth of sense. I'd say I'm a 7 but I'll retake periodically to see if there's any real fluctuation. I find this very interesting and don't want to pass up the chance for more self-analyzation. Thanks a ton.


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## ArenaHomme

BadWolf said:


> *Arena is Seven
> 
> The other two are fives.
> 
> @Admins, if you move the House stuff. Then just move it to my Famous ENTPs thread, thats where all the House argument stuff is anyway.
> *


I want 6s to be a afraid of me because I 8 9. :tongue:


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## mcgooglian

ArenaHomme said:


> I want 6s to be a afraid of me because I 8 9. :tongue:


Stealing my jokes are you?:tongue: Remember, I used it before you.


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## Ninja Nem

*Do you feel in touch with your animal nature, and the old school primal urges that come with it? Savagery, lust, murder, etc?*
I'm not sure if I would call it animalistic exactly but it's certainly something. It's kind of hard to explain but here's one example. Whenever I'm singing I generally become completely absorbed in it, like someone might become absorbed in doing a crossword puzzle. I always have this warm tingly sensation that floods me from my spine to my toes as though fire were flowing through my veins. 

*If you do, do you revel in it? Like "Oh yeah... I'm a beast."*
I do revel it.

*Do you have a hard time seeing yourself? As in... self identity. Like there's a fog around who you are.*
Yes.

*When you try to describe yourself, is it like writing draft after draft and throwing them into a waste basket, not quite sure how to phrase it?*It's not like that at all.


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## 480

Calypso said:


> *Do you feel in touch with your animal nature, and the old school primal urges that come with it? Savagery, lust, murder, etc?*
> I'm not sure if I would call it animalistic exactly but it's certainly something. It's kind of hard to explain but here's one example. Whenever I'm singing I generally become completely absorbed in it, like someone might become absorbed in doing a crossword puzzle. I always have this warm tingly sensation that floods me from my spine to my toes as though fire were flowing through my veins.
> 
> *If you do, do you revel in it? Like "Oh yeah... I'm a beast."*
> I do revel it.
> 
> *Do you have a hard time seeing yourself? As in... self identity. Like there's a fog around who you are.*
> Yes.
> 
> *When you try to describe yourself, is it like writing draft after draft and throwing them into a waste basket, not quite sure how to phrase it?*It's not like that at all.


It is possible that you test 8 and it be your wing, and not your core, it would give you some of the traits of the core but in the end it's just a borrowing of the energies of the type that shape the hows and the whys if your core. 

I tested type 9 over 8 on 5 tests. But I'm an 8. What set me as being an 8 is some very key type 8 traits that you wont find in the online profiles. Like the questions I asked you and Bad Wolf. Take a look at the 9 profile, and the 7 profile and see if one of the fit you, if you like.
If you find that 9 or 7 mean something to you, we can look at the possibility of 7w8 or 9w8. But I do not think you're 8 first.


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## εmptε

*HEHE fire in your veins. My body feels like its on fire. Example: I got into a argument once, and it was going back and forth. I was pacing like a madman coming up with new ways to argue and trying to figure out what he was going to say next so I could figure out what I was going to say then then... etc. . My body was on fire. It was burning up and I thought it was just me so I got my dad to feel my head and shoulder and he said "Its like you're on fire." but I didn't feel bad. Nope, quite the opposite. I felt supercharged.

That wasn't the first, neither was it the last time that has happened.

:happy: Thats what I call sucked in. I still don't know why my body does that.... its odd. 

Its was kind-of like what happens when I get cold. I don't get cold, because my body warms me up. I walk around half naked when its 10 degrees, because my body doesn't allow me to get cold.

Off-topic much?
*


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## Ninja Nem

I'm definitely not a 9 and do fit the 7 in some ways but 8 is still the better match.


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## Morpheus83

I took the long test and didn't find my results to be too surprising. I often test as a 4w5.

The Enneagram is a personality system which divides the entire human personality into nine behavioral tendencies, this is your score on each...

Type 1 Perfectionism |||||| 30%
Type 2 Helpfulness |||||||||||| 42%
Type 3 Image Focus |||||||||| 34%
Type 4 Hypersensitivity |||||||||||||||| 68%
Type 5 Detachment |||||||||||| 47%
Type 6 Anxiety |||||||||| 34%
Type 7 Adventurousness |||||||||| 31%
Type 8 Aggressiveness |||| 17%
Type 9 Calmness |||||||||| 40%

My variant is 'self-preservation'.


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## 480

Calypso said:


> I'm definitely not a 9 and do fit the 7 in some ways but 8 is still the better match.


Ok, take a look at the lists below. Who do you relate the most to, in terms of behavior, mannerisms etc.
If it is some from both lists, please tell me which are the strongest resonance.

Also, did the test give you a variant stack? It's a lot more important than people might think. Totally different reasons for doing the same thing.

Jimbo(Simpsons)
Crocodile Dundee
Gambit(Xmen) 
Alex(Greys Anatomy)
Kramer(Seinfield)
Triumph The Insult Dog
Joker
Sawyer(Lost)
Wolverine


Nelson(Simpsons)/mom on Malcolm In The Middle
Yosemite Sam
cartman(southpark) 
Batman
Hans Solo
Lucy Van Pelt(Charlie Brown)
Elf King(LOTR) 
Bailey(Greys Anatomy)
Megatron
Norma Desmond
queen on Snow White
Dr Cox(Scrubs) 
Sauron(LOTR)
Magneto


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## Ninja Nem

BadWolf said:


> *HEHE fire in your veins. My body feels like its on fire. Example: I got into a argument once, and it was going back and forth. I was pacing like a madman coming up with new ways to argue and trying to figure out what he was going to say next so I could figure out what I was going to say then then... etc. . My body was on fire. It was burning up and I thought it was just me so I got my dad to feel my head and shoulder and he said "Its like you're on fire." but I didn't feel bad. Nope, quite the opposite. I felt supercharged.
> 
> That wasn't the first, neither was it the last time that has happened.
> 
> :happy: Thats what I call sucked in. I still don't know why my body does that.... its odd.
> 
> Its was kind-of like what happens when I get cold. I don't get cold, because my body warms me up. I walk around half naked when its 10 degrees, because my body doesn't allow me to get cold.
> 
> Off-topic much?
> *


That's how I feel too, supercharged and powerful. I love it. But I do wonder why it happens.


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## 480

andywg said:


> I took the long test and didn't find my results to be too surprising. I often test as a 4w5.
> 
> The Enneagram is a personality system which divides the entire human personality into nine behavioral tendencies, this is your score on each...
> 
> Type 1 Perfectionism |||||| 30%
> Type 2 Helpfulness |||||||||||| 42%
> Type 3 Image Focus |||||||||| 34%
> Type 4 Hypersensitivity |||||||||||||||| 68%
> Type 5 Detachment |||||||||||| 47%
> Type 6 Anxiety |||||||||| 34%
> Type 7 Adventurousness |||||||||| 31%
> Type 8 Aggressiveness |||| 17%
> Type 9 Calmness |||||||||| 40%
> 
> My variant is 'self-preservation'.



If it gives the full variant stack you may want to include it. sp/so is quite a bit different than sp/sx.


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## Ninja Nem

Bear said:


> Ok, take a look at the lists below. Who do you relate the most to, in terms of behavior, mannerisms etc.
> If it is some from both lists, please tell me which are the strongest resonance.
> 
> Also, did the test give you a variant stack? It's a lot more important than people might think. Totally different reasons for doing the same thing.
> 
> Jimbo(Simpsons)
> Crocodile Dundee
> Gambit(Xmen)
> Alex(Greys Anatomy)
> Kramer(Seinfield)
> Triumph The Insult Dog
> Joker
> Sawyer(Lost)
> Wolverine
> 
> 
> Nelson(Simpsons)/mom on Malcolm In The Middle
> Yosemite Sam
> cartman(southpark)
> Batman
> Hans Solo
> Lucy Van Pelt(Charlie Brown)
> Elf King(LOTR)
> Bailey(Greys Anatomy)
> Megatron
> Norma Desmond
> queen on Snow White
> Dr Cox(Scrubs)
> Sauron(LOTR)
> Magneto


Dr. Cox is the only one that I feel strongly connected to.


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## de l'eau salée

Calypso said:


> That's how I feel too, supercharged and powerful. I love it. But I do wonder why it happens.


Haha, I'm the total opposite. Arguments make me extremely and noticeable shaky and uncomfortable. I can't stop being shaky for a good hour or so. I absolutely hate it.


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## εmptε

*Not sure thats what he meant by animal instincts though. I just through that in because of what you said.

I believe he's referring to more animalistic instincts like what he said in the question.
*


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## εmptε

Silhouetree said:


> Haha, I'm the total opposite. Arguments make me extremely and noticeable shaky and uncomfortable. I can't stop being shaky for a good hour or so. I absolutely hate it.


*I only used arguments as an example. I feel that way when doing other things too. Example; Have you ever started burning up when you were having sex, and became a "ravaging beast" for lack of a better word? because I have. *


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## Nightriser

BadWolf said:


> *HEHE fire in your veins. My body feels like its on fire. Example: I got into a argument once, and it was going back and forth. I was pacing like a madman coming up with new ways to argue and trying to figure out what he was going to say next so I could figure out what I was going to say then then... etc. . My body was on fire. It was burning up and I thought it was just me so I got my dad to feel my head and shoulder and he said "Its like you're on fire." but I didn't feel bad. Nope, quite the opposite. I felt supercharged.
> 
> That wasn't the first, neither was it the last time that has happened.
> 
> :happy: Thats what I call sucked in. I still don't know why my body does that.... its odd.
> 
> Its was kind-of like what happens when I get cold. I don't get cold, because my body warms me up. I walk around half naked when its 10 degrees, because my body doesn't allow me to get cold.
> 
> Off-topic much?
> *


I also feel sucked into certain arguments. It's really exhilarating. 

However, I get cold quite easily. I have to maintain my room at 70-80 degrees, and 70 is almost chilly for me. Right now, in fact, it's 78, and I have cold toes and fingers.


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## Morpheus83

Bear said:


> If it gives the full variant stack you may want to include it. sp/so is quite a bit different than sp/sx.


Mine is sp/so/sx (4w5). I'm still not sure what this means...


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## εmptε

*I feel I relate to Malcolm from Malcolm In The Middle. Smart, Egotistical, Somewhat Lazy, Short Tempered, instinctual, Frank|Blunt aka Outspoken, but still manages to be extroverted and have friends.
*


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## Nightriser

I think the character I've identified most with is Ender, from Ender's Game. I'm not nearly so brilliant with strategic tactics, but otherwise, it fits. Second is Enid Cole, from Ghost World. 

I don't identify with many characters, though.


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## mcgooglian

Bear said:


> Jimbo(Simpsons)
> Crocodile Dundee
> Gambit(Xmen)
> Alex(Greys Anatomy)
> Kramer(Seinfield)
> Triumph The Insult Dog
> Joker
> Sawyer(Lost)
> Wolverine
> 
> 
> Nelson(Simpsons)/mom on Malcolm In The Middle
> Yosemite Sam
> cartman(southpark)
> Batman
> Hans Solo
> Lucy Van Pelt(Charlie Brown)
> Elf King(LOTR)
> Bailey(Greys Anatomy)
> Megatron
> Norma Desmond
> queen on Snow White
> Dr Cox(Scrubs)
> Sauron(LOTR)
> Magneto


From this list, I definitely identify most with Solo (partially because he's also an ISTP).


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## εmptε

*The characters I have named are the few I relate to. It might not look like a few, but think of it like this. Most extroverts ( that I know) relate to (close to anyway) 60 different characters. I relate to maybe 20. :tongue:*


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## 480

Keep in mind, some of the lists are aimed at a specific individual. Chance you're going to relate to any of them might be slim. I'm putting lists together based on clumps of characters based on their type.

If someone torn between two types, a list like that is a shortcut to finding their type.


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## εmptε

*Okay, Berry. We already figured out I'm a 8w7, now, figure out if I'm a ENTP or a ENTJ. :bored:*


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## Jrquinlisk

I can never seem to get any conclusive results on these. Let's see...



> Type 1	Perfectionism |||||| 28%
> Type 2	Helpfulness |||||||||||||||| 70%
> Type 3	Image Focus |||||||||||||| 57%
> Type 4	Hypersensitivity	|||||||||||||||||| 71%
> Type 5	Detachment |||||||||||||||||| 75%
> Type 6	Anxiety |||||||||||||||| 64%
> Type 7	Adventurousness	|||||||||| 37%
> Type 8	Aggressiveness	|||| 20%
> Type 9	Calmness |||||||||||||| 52%
> 
> Variant: sp/so/sx


...And I still don't know.


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## Nightriser

I think that would be interpreted as 4w5, though you clearly have a strong 2 aspect.


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## Marco Antonio

Bear said:


> Do you relate to one of these?
> 
> 
> sensual, firmly grounded in their bodies; emphasis on physical comforts; generally easy going but with a volcanic and expansive anger when forced by others to leave their comfort-zone
> 
> 
> idealistic, cerebral; can resemble E5s; emphasis on (day-) dreams of union and harmony; willing to repress and/or ignore many negative impulses in self and others but react with an indignant anger towards those who are perceived to be ruining the peace



hmm... the first sentence sounds more in tune with me and very instinctual, which i love; the second one kind of perfectionist, which i am also, a bit meticulous and dreamy.
In general i would say i'm dreamy and kinesteticly aware; i love to dance for the sake of exploring creativity with my body, at the same time i think about how such an instinctual and peaceful attitude could make a change in the world. I'm easy going, but when i enter in "rage" mode, better get away from me, i tend to become explosive and domineering. I'm also very sexual and flirtatious although relaxed and leaned back.







Jrquinlisk said:


> ...And I still don't know.


i'm thinking a clear 5w4 and a small tendency for 5w6


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## 480

Marco Antonio said:


> hmm... the first sentence sounds more in tune with me and very instinctual, which i love; the second one kind of perfectionist, which i am also, a bit meticulous and dreamy.
> In general i would say i'm dreamy and kinesteticly aware; i love to dance for the sake of exploring creativity with my body, at the same time i think about how such an instinctual and peaceful attitude could make a change in the world. I'm easy going, but when i enter in "rage" mode, better get away from me, i tend to become explosive and domineering. I'm also very sexual and flirtatious although relaxed and leaned back.


Explosive anger seems more 9w8 to me. Does your anger have a strategic bent to it, or is it pretty indiscriminate? 

Your variant stack would have some impact over this.


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## 480

Jrquinlisk said:


> I can never seem to get any conclusive results on these. Let's see...
> 
> 
> 
> ...And I still don't know.





Llixgrijb said:


> I think that would be interpreted as 4w5, though you clearly have a strong 2 aspect.


4s stress to 2. So seeing a prominent 4 score with a lot of 2 behind it suggests that's life isn't ideal for you at the moment.


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## Warriorqueen

Below are my Long Test Results.....almost identical to the short test results

Enneagram Test Results
The Enneagram is a personality system which divides the entire human personality into nine behavioral tendencies, this is your score on each...

Type 1 Perfectionism||||||||||||||||61%
Type 2	Helpfulness	||||||||||	34%
Type 3	Image Focus	||||||||||||||	54%
Type 4	Hypersensitivity||||||||||	38%
Type 5	Detachment	||||||||||||	48%
Type 6	Anxiety	||||||||||||||||||71%
Type 7	Adventurousness||||||||||||||||||74%
Type 8	Aggressiveness||||||||||||||||||||87%
Type 9	Calmness	||||||||||||42%



Your main type is Type 8	

Your variant is sexual sx/so/sp

I understand this.....but I've noticed folks identifiying themselves as '4w5 or 8w7'......This part I still don't understand.


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## 480

Warriorqueen said:


> Below are my Long Test Results.....almost identical to the short test results
> 
> Enneagram Test Results
> The Enneagram is a personality system which divides the entire human personality into nine behavioral tendencies, this is your score on each...
> 
> Type 1 Perfectionism||||||||||||||||61%
> Type 2	Helpfulness	||||||||||	34%
> Type 3	Image Focus	||||||||||||||	54%
> Type 4	Hypersensitivity||||||||||	38%
> Type 5	Detachment	||||||||||||	48%
> Type 6	Anxiety	||||||||||||||||||71%
> Type 7	Adventurousness||||||||||||||||||74%
> Type 8	Aggressiveness||||||||||||||||||||87%
> Type 9	Calmness	||||||||||||42%
> 
> 
> 
> Your main type is Type 8
> 
> Your variant is sexual sx/so/sp
> 
> I understand this.....but I've noticed folks identifiying themselves as '4w5 or 8w7'......This part I still don't understand.


It's your "wing" I'm 8w9, you appear to be 8w7. We both share similar qualities of 8s, but we go about it completely different.

8w7s are Donald Trump, Howard Cosell, Pink, Bette Davis, Barbra Walters, Shelley Winters, Sean Penn.
(thought variant stack plays a role in this. sx/so is different from sp/sx and so on.)

8w9s are Winston Churchill, John Wayne, Clint Eastwood, Shaq, George Foreman, Tina Turner, Deborah Harry.

The first 3 pages, or so,of this thread where Bad Wolf and I are exchanging explain a bit about 8s, and how we differ in more specific terms.


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## Jrquinlisk

Bear said:


> 4s stress to 2. So seeing a prominent 4 score with a lot of 2 behind it suggests that's life isn't ideal for you at the moment.


By Jove, that just might be it! I read some descriptions, and it really makes sense. Especially the part about the "fantasy self".

Lord knows my life would be better if I could just get out and, y'know, _do_ something. I'm going a little stir-crazy at the moment.

Thanks for the help.


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## EspressiveGirl

*I tested as a 9, but I don't know about all the wing stuff (funny cuz I thought I was a 4, but took the test 2x and both times, 9...)*

*Bear, on your first list I chose Calvin (he always wanted to change the rule to fix the game and be the eternal winner...)*

*On your second list I chose Phoebe (she is just a trip and really didn't belong anywhere except with her friends...her family was the picture of dysfunction...)*

*And on your music list, I chose Peter Gabriel: my favorite song of all time, no matter what genre is "SLEDGEHAMMER" I LOVE THAT SONG! *

*So, there you go. Work your Enneagram magic on me...LOL!*


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## Warriorqueen

Bear said:


> It's your "wing" I'm 8w9, you appear to be 8w7. We both share similar qualities of 8s, but we go about it completely different.
> 
> 8w7s are Donald Trump, Howard Cosell, Pink, Bette Davis, Barbra Walters, Shelley Winters, Sean Penn.
> (thought variant stack plays a role in this. sx/so is different from sp/sx and so on.)
> 
> 8w9s are Winston Churchill, John Wayne, Clint Eastwood, Shaq, George Foreman, Tina Turner, Deborah Harry.
> 
> The first 3 pages, or so,of this thread where Bad Wolf and I are exchanging explain a bit about 8s, and how we differ in more specific terms.


Thanks Bear
I will keep learning....I really appreciate your help......Oh, when I took the "Are you Marilyn or Jackie O test...My result was Bette Davis!!!
Sounds like confirmation to me


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## EspressiveGirl

Type 1 Perfectionism||||||||||||||||62%Type 2Helpfulness||||||||||||||||62%Type 3Image Focus||||||||||||||54%Type 4Hypersensitivity||||||||||||||54%Type 5Detachment||||||||||||||58%Type 6Anxiety||||||30%Type 7Adventurousness||||||||||||||58%Type 8Aggressiveness||||||||||||||58%Type 9Calmness||||||||||||||||||78%


typescoretype behavior motivation919 I must be peaceful and easy to get along with to be happy.115 I must be perfect and good to be happy.215 I must be helpful and caring to be happy.514 I must be knowledgable and independent to be happy.714 I must be high and entertained to be happy.814 I must be strong and in control to be happy.313 I must be impressive and attractive to be happy.413 I must avoid painful feelings to be happy.67 I must be secure and safe to be happy.
Your main type is Type 9
Your variant is sexual









Your variant is sexual


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## NephilimAzrael

I find this odd.. As an INTJ, my prominent Enneagram _should_ be within the range of 4-6, with common wings.. But I am sharing mine with the ENTJs in here.. Well, Hello ENTJs. :wink:


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## Warriorqueen

NephilimAzrael said:


> I find this odd.. As an INTJ, my prominent Enneagram _should_ be within the range of 4-6, with common wings.. But I am sharing mine with the ENTJs in here.. Well, Hello ENTJs. :wink:


Hail to NephilimAzrael
Those of us ENTJ......Salute You!


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## 480

NephilimAzrael said:


> I find this odd.. As an INTJ, my prominent Enneagram _should_ be within the range of 4-6, with common wings.. But I am sharing mine with the ENTJs in here.. Well, Hello ENTJs. :wink:


Yeah, NTs as gut types (8,9,1 - I know Neph knows this, this is here for others.) Should be rare according to popular theory. But to be honest, I keep seeing 8 NTJs all over the place, and people I've talked to have said all the ENTJs they have met are 8s. So... yeah. 

Hi to you too.


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## 480

Warriorqueen said:


> Thanks Bear
> I will keep learning....I really appreciate your help......Oh, when I took the "Are you Marilyn or Jackie O test...My result was Bette Davis!!!
> Sounds like confirmation to me


Bette Davis also has your variant stack. sx/so. So yes I agree, seems pretty confirmed.


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## NephilimAzrael

Would you agree that the temperament has its basis in upbringing? And a correlation between the instinctive types and NTJs may have something to do with the Introverted intuition we share?


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## 480

EspressiveGirl said:


> *I tested as a 9, but I don't know about all the wing stuff (funny cuz I thought I was a 4, but took the test 2x and both times, 9...)*
> 
> *Bear, on your first list I chose Calvin (he always wanted to change the rule to fix the game and be the eternal winner...)*
> 
> *On your second list I chose Phoebe (she is just a trip and really didn't belong anywhere except with her friends...her family was the picture of dysfunction...)*
> 
> *And on your music list, I chose Peter Gabriel: my favorite song of all time, no matter what genre is "SLEDGEHAMMER" I LOVE THAT SONG! *
> 
> *So, there you go. Work your Enneagram magic on me...LOL!*


Actually EG, those lists were to the specific members I quoted, or otherwise directed to. Calvin is a 5w4 so/sx. There's nothing wrong with being able to relate to him though, even if you're a 9. Calvin is a pimp.

Now, my questions specifically for you are... do you, at your very core feel unlovable - in the sense that there is nothing there worth loving?



Are you sensual and earthy, grounded in your body - sometimes exploding into terrible anger?
*OR*
Are you idealistic, cerebral, willing to ignore negative impulses in yourself and others, but get angry at people you think are disturbing the peace?
(One should apply more than the other.)

Do you often ask yourself "Who am I?" 

Do you idealize water?


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## 480

NephilimAzrael said:


> Would you agree that the temperament has its basis in upbringing? And a correlation between the instinctive types and NTJs may have something to do with the Introverted intuition we share?


Hrmm, I think our core E-type is mostly an inborn thing. I think our subwings variant stacks, and fixes are probably influenced by life experiences.


----------



## εmptε

NephilimAzrael said:


> I find this odd.. As an INTJ, my prominent Enneagram _should_ be within the range of 4-6, with common wings.. But I am sharing mine with the ENTJs in here.. Well, Hello ENTJs. :wink:


Typing From Phone: You find this odd. NTJ 8 =/= 8 NTP.
:happy:


----------



## EspressiveGirl

Bear said:


> Actually EG, those lists were to the specific members I quoted, or otherwise directed to. Calvin is a 5w4 so/sx. There's nothing wrong with being able to relate to him though, even if you're a 9. Calvin is a pimp.
> 
> Now, my questions specifically for you are... do you, at your very core feel unlovable - in the sense that there is nothing there worth loving?
> 
> 
> 
> Are you sensual and earthy, grounded in your body - sometimes exploding into terrible anger?
> *OR*
> Are you idealistic, cerebral, willing to ignore negative impulses in yourself and others, but get angry at people you think are disturbing the peace?
> (One should apply more than the other.)
> 
> Do you often ask yourself "Who am I?"
> 
> Do you idealize water?


Okay, Bear...sorry...I was fascinated by the Peter Gabriel question...LOL...

I USED TO feel I was very unlovable...I don't really suffer from that condition much anymore. I saw the light...so, I guess the answer to that one is NO. I think I am actually irresistible to certain parties...(and no, not just my SO).

I am more likely to overlook negative impulses in others, but if someone is being disruptive and divisive just for the sake of being so, that really just pisses me completely off. (My ex was like that...heck, he still is and I can't stand being around him...)

If I didn't want to know who I am, I would not be here doing all these infernal tests (hah!)

And yes, I am drawn to places that have water features on them. My SO and I have actually wondered what it is about the water that we are so drawn to...we both love it and find it very calming and peaceful. Especially if it is running or moving water...the sound knocks us out. 

There ya go!


----------



## 480

EspressiveGirl said:


> Okay, Bear...sorry...I was fascinated by the Peter Gabriel question...LOL...
> 
> I USED TO feel I was very unlovable...I don't really suffer from that condition much anymore. I saw the light...so, I guess the answer to that one is NO. I think I am actually irresistible to certain parties...(and no, not just my SO).
> 
> I am more likely to overlook negative impulses in others, but if someone is being disruptive and divisive just for the sake of being so, that really just pisses me completely off. (My ex was like that...heck, he still is and I can't stand being around him...)
> 
> If I didn't want to know who I am, I would not be here doing all these infernal tests (hah!)
> 
> And yes, I am drawn to places that have water features on them. My SO and I have actually wondered what it is about the water that we are so drawn to...we both love it and find it very calming and peaceful. Especially if it is running or moving water...the sound knocks us out.
> 
> There ya go!


More likey to forgive others their negative impulses, but I'm guessing very hard on self. Maybe people who love you have said things like "It's OK if you make mistakes, you know?" Or.. "You're too damn hard on yourself?"

The idealization of water is very 9w1. It is very peaceful, and flows in and out of things and takes their shape and moves on to the next thing. Much like I'm betting you do. Drop you into a social situation and you "adapt" to fit your environment. But water also has rules and structure. And while it flows all over the place doing pretty much anything it wants... it always acts like water. It also carries with it a spiritual feel. Very clean, and pure.

Because 9s are able to flow and meld into any situation they are often left wondering just who and the hell they are. Because at some point they realize not everyone does that. They see people who have a very set and defined style, and are envious, sometimes wondering what is wrong with them that can't be something more... solid.

Good news is, you can feel lucky. At the expense of self image, you are quite literally able to be _anything_. Your psyche is very fluid and hard to damage. I'm also guessing you're a somewhat indomitable person. Stuff piles up on you, and just grit your teeth and press on.


----------



## 480

[DERAILMENT]

My favorite Peter Gabriel...






[/DERAILMENT]


----------



## EspressiveGirl

OMG, I am laughing because you are dead on!

More likey to forgive others their negative impulses, but I'm guessing very hard on self. Maybe people who love you have said things like "It's OK if you make mistakes, you know?" Or.. "You're too damn hard on yourself?"

I am EXTREMELY hard on myself, and it's something I am keenly aware of, as I've given birth to a child who is also very, very hard on himself. I would not wish that trait on anyone. It's one of the reasons I feel so strongly about letting him know my love for him is not performance-contingent. Growing up, I felt very strongly that love was performance-contingent, although I have come to learn, real love is not.

I am very tough on me. I once told a former boss who was very demanding of me, "I don't need you to be hard on me, I am hard enough on myself!" Once he saw what I meant, he let me self-govern and I have loved him ever since for that...gift!

Yes, I am incredibly adaptable. It comes from moving so often as a child. However, the downside of that is that I have never had roots and when I find someone who has roots and see the benefits they reap from that, I want that very much for myself.

It's one of the things I'm most attracted to in my SO. He is a very grounded and settled person...and he strives for peace and harmony. So, you are very, very accurate in your description of me.

Especially the part about being indomitable. I am a Weeble. I may get knocked down, but you can damn sure guarantee, I will get back up. Bloody, but unbowed...that is my cliche!
LOL! Very good, Bear.

So, what does this 9w1 mean for me? What is this concept of "wings"?


----------



## EspressiveGirl

*According to this website, Barack Obama and I share Enneagrams...go figure!*

PTypes - Barack Obama's Enneagram Type: The Peacemaker (9w1)


----------



## 480

EspressiveGirl said:


> OMG, I am laughing because you are dead on!
> 
> More likey to forgive others their negative impulses, but I'm guessing very hard on self. Maybe people who love you have said things like "It's OK if you make mistakes, you know?" Or.. "You're too damn hard on yourself?"
> 
> I am EXTREMELY hard on myself, and it's something I am keenly aware of, as I've given birth to a child who is also very, very hard on himself. I would not wish that trait on anyone. It's one of the reasons I feel so strongly about letting him know my love for him is not performance-contingent. Growing up, I felt very strongly that love was performance-contingent, although I have come to learn, real love is not.
> 
> I am very tough on me. I once told a former boss who was very demanding of me, "I don't need you to be hard on me, I am hard enough on myself!" Once he saw what I meant, he let me self-govern and I have loved him ever since for that...gift!
> 
> Yes, I am incredibly adaptable. It comes from moving so often as a child. However, the downside of that is that I have never had roots and when I find someone who has roots and see the benefits they reap from that, I want that very much for myself.
> 
> It's one of the things I'm most attracted to in my SO. He is a very grounded and settled person...and he strives for peace and harmony. So, you are very, very accurate in your description of me.
> 
> Especially the part about being indomitable. I am a Weeble. I may get knocked down, but you can damn sure guarantee, I will get back up. Bloody, but unbowed...that is my cliche!
> LOL! Very good, Bear.
> 
> So, what does this 9w1 mean for me? What is this concept of "wings"?


Oh... core type is just the tip of the pin. Wings are the tip of the iceberg.

I see you found the thing about Obama. Just keep in mind that different variant stacks also make a difference. 

Here are some people that share your core and wing, and your variant stack. (sx/sp/soc)

Eric Clapton 
Audrey Hepburn
Mira Sorvino 
Sophie Marceau
Carl Jung
Norah Jones
Vanessa Carlton
Michelle Branch
Kate Beckinsale
J K Rowling 
Aimee Mann 

(*cough* youtube *cough*)
You can see if these people "vibe" or "resonate" with you. I usually send this list with links via PMs, but yours were disabled last time I looked.

Just keep in mind that your variant stack can be wrong. The test you took uses too many global questions. Too generic. I originally tested sx/soc/sp. I'm certainly Self-Preservation last... you can turn my life upside down, crumple it up, spill apple juice on it, burn it, and sweep it under a rug and I'll be OK. I'm actually Social first. This has the effect of taking the rougher edges off of my 8ness. An sp first 8 is the more super aggressive Donald Trump type. I'm more apt to keep a conversation going, and enjoy talking to people. Sometimes I come on to strong and tend to seek to develop "inappropriately" close relationships with people I've just met. Just in the sense that everyone's my friend till you piss me off. Then 10 minutes later, I'm OK with you again. I want to come over to your house and drink a beer and put my feet up on your coffee table. vs. "You're Fired!" I'm just as aggressive about doing so. Trump may leave people feeling like they didn't get enough face time with him. I'm apt to leave you regretting you bothered to talk to me in the first place.

I include this, because I think variants are every bit as important as types. And I wanted you and anyone else interested to see the difference they can make.


----------



## Marco Antonio

Bear said:


> Actually EG, those lists were to the specific members I quoted, or otherwise directed to. Calvin is a 5w4 so/sx. There's nothing wrong with being able to relate to him though, even if you're a 9. Calvin is a pimp.
> 
> Now, my questions specifically for you are... do you, at your very core feel unlovable - in the sense that there is nothing there worth loving?
> 
> 
> 
> Are you sensual and earthy, grounded in your body - sometimes exploding into terrible anger?
> *OR*
> Are you idealistic, cerebral, willing to ignore negative impulses in yourself and others, but get angry at people you think are disturbing the peace?
> (One should apply more than the other.)
> 
> Do you often ask yourself "Who am I?"
> 
> Do you idealize water?



i actually love water too, i think of water as a malleable element; water means change and adaptability, but also union and teamwork. I like the quality of water to produce energy also. 



Bear said:


> Oh... core type is just the tip of the pin. Wings are the tip of the iceberg.
> 
> I see you found the thing about Obama. Just keep in mind that different variant stacks also make a difference.
> 
> Here are some people that share your core and wing, and your variant stack. (sx/sp/soc)
> 
> Eric Clapton
> Audrey Hepburn
> Mira Sorvino
> Sophie Marceau
> Carl Jung
> Norah Jones
> Vanessa Carlton
> Michelle Branch
> Kate Beckinsale
> J K Rowling
> Aimee Mann
> 
> (*cough* youtube *cough*)
> You can see if these people "vibe" or "resonate" with you. I usually send this list with links via PMs, but yours were disabled last time I looked.
> 
> Just keep in mind that your variant stack can be wrong. The test you took uses too many global questions. Too generic. I originally tested sx/soc/sp. I'm certainly Self-Preservation last... you can turn my life upside down, crumple it up, spill apple juice on it, burn it, and sweep it under a rug and I'll be OK. I'm actually Social first. This has the effect of taking the rougher edges off of my 8ness. An sp first 8 is the more super aggressive Donald Trump type. I'm more apt to keep a conversation going, and enjoy talking to people. Sometimes I come on to strong and tend to seek to develop "inappropriately" close relationships with people I've just met. Just in the sense that everyone's my friend till you piss me off. Then 10 minutes later, I'm OK with you again. I want to come over to your house and drink a beer and put my feet up on your coffee table. vs. "You're Fired!" I'm just as aggressive about doing so. Trump may leave people feeling like they didn't get enough face time with him. I'm apt to leave you regretting you bothered to talk to me in the first place.
> 
> I include this, because I think variants are every bit as important as types. And I wanted you and anyone else interested to see the difference they can make.


mmm... what would it be then 9w8? I understand 8's have a desire for power, and 1's for perfection; i see myself being compatible with both descriptions, how could you decide which wing is stronger, is there the possibility to have them somewhat balanced?


----------



## EspressiveGirl

*Bear, I gotta say that in all of this "self-discovery" I've been involved with over the past 18mos or so, one of the things I have been amazed to find out about myself is that I am a very sensual and passionate person. That was something I truly did not know. *

*My stack is dead on as well. *

*The sp, I couldnt' careless about. I have a theory that my life is like a patchwork quilt...nothing matches anything else, but it's a work of art, nonetheless. The so, again, that's not that big of a deal to me. I am a loner by nature...and am very good at that, as a matter of fact. But that doesn't mean I am ANTI-SOCIAL. I love people, but after a while, they pluck my nerves and I have to get off to myself...frequently, to be honest with you.*

*Sx is going to be my top varietal, as I feel the need to merge with others, to absorb them and be absorbed by them. This may not be the healthiest way to behave, but as I get older I am much more discriminating as to who I merge with and who I do not. My boundaries are not nearly as nebulous as they once were, and that, I believe, comes with maturity and experience.*

*This is rich stuff. Very insightful. Thank you for your help.:wink:*


----------



## 480

Marco Antonio said:


> i actually love water too, i think of water as a malleable element; water means change and adaptability, but also union and teamwork. I like the quality of water to produce energy also.
> 
> 
> 
> mmm... what would it be then 9w8? I understand 8's have a desire for power, and 1's for perfection; i see myself being compatible with both descriptions, how could you decide which wing is stronger, is there the possibility to have them somewhat balanced?


Sorry, I was out of town a few days.

Yes, a balance is possible. But, the 8 in 9w8 doesnt mean you hunt for power. Neither does 8 mean you hunt for power.

The 8 stereotype of power thirst comes from profiles written that model guys like Donald Trump. The real bend behind an 8 is an assumed strength. It isnt something that is considered constantly, we don't have to remind ourselves of it, or prove it. It's just there. Like the sun in the sky.

Take a look at these lists, tell me who if any you relate to:

John Goodman
Keanu Reeves
Anthony Hopkins
Adam Sandler
Woody Harrelson
Dave Matthews
Nicholas Cage
Kevin Costner

George Lucas
Hayden Christainsen
Michael Phelps
Jim Henson
Eric Clapton
Tom Petty
Henry Fonda
Orel Hershiser

If you're not sure about some of these guys, look them up on youtube. Remember you're not judging them based on content, but rather how they speak - emphasis of words, body language, posture etc.


----------



## mcgooglian

I just took the test again, and you were right with the 7 and 5. My highest was 9 though followed by 7 and 5 with my variant order being sx/sp/so. My top 3 are all within one point of each other (I got a score of 18 on 9, 17 on 7, and 16 on 5). It does describe me though.


----------



## BehindSmile

Your type is: ESFJ

ESFJ - "Seller". Most sociable of all types. Nurturer of harmony. Outstanding host or hostesses. 12.3% of total population.


















Huh...I am like 49% introvert and 51% extrovert. It really depends on my situation.

How can I know if I am an ESFJ or an ISFJ for sure? Anyone want to help me out?


----------



## Trope

I'm curious as to what type you believe I am, Bear.


----------



## Eloi

I closed the page before I could post the exact values here but it gave me 5w6 sp/sx/so but I've already took this test many times and it already gave me 6w5 or 6w4 (6 with 18 and 4 and 5 with 17...) and 5w4 (I think it was the first time I took the test). The type 8 was always the last value.


----------



## Marco Antonio

Bear said:


> Sorry, I was out of town a few days.
> 
> Yes, a balance is possible. But, the 8 in 9w8 doesnt mean you hunt for power. Neither does 8 mean you hunt for power.
> 
> The 8 stereotype of power thirst comes from profiles written that model guys like Donald Trump. The real bend behind an 8 is an assumed strength. It isnt something that is considered constantly, we don't have to remind ourselves of it, or prove it. It's just there. Like the sun in the sky.
> 
> Take a look at these lists, tell me who if any you relate to:
> 
> John Goodman
> Keanu Reeves
> Anthony Hopkins
> Adam Sandler
> Woody Harrelson
> Dave Matthews
> Nicholas Cage
> Kevin Costner
> 
> George Lucas
> Hayden Christainsen
> Michael Phelps
> Jim Henson
> Eric Clapton
> Tom Petty
> Henry Fonda
> Orel Hershiser
> 
> If you're not sure about some of these guys, look them up on youtube. Remember you're not judging them based on content, but rather how they speak - emphasis of words, body language, posture etc.


So i went and looked at the videos to be sure how the act in interviews and are not in a role roud:

Keanu Reeves.-mannerisms, tone of voice, posture
Henry Fonda.- speak pace, word emphasis, posture
Adam Sandler.- facial expressions, mannerism
Hayden Christensen.- eye contact, facial expression


----------



## Marco Antonio

Btw. i get what you mean with assumed strength; it's like having the certainty you could do anything, and wont even bother thinking about it.


----------



## 480

Marco Antonio said:


> So i went and looked at the videos to be sure how the act in interviews and are not in a role roud:
> 
> Keanu Reeves.-mannerisms, tone of voice, posture
> Henry Fonda.- speak pace, word emphasis, posture
> Adam Sandler.- facial expressions, mannerism
> Hayden Christensen.- eye contact, facial expression


Which of these statements resonates most with you?

most effortless maintaining of own boundaries...most solid

most pressure on others boundaries...most dominant...most
likely to step on others toes without trying

most balance between stepping on others toes and being
stepped on...least friction and easiest to get along with

most likely to have their boundaries disrespected...toes
stepped on and tested by others.

most easily agitated over their boundaries being rubbed the
wrong way...most tightly wound...stiffest.

most likely to suffer in silence over their boundaries being
tested. 

It is ok if two of them seem to fit - I'd expect one to have a stronger pull than the other if that is the case. If this ends up being true, let me know which has more meaning to you.


----------



## 480

Trope said:


> I'm curious as to what type you believe I am, Bear.


Trope, allow me to time to look over your old posts and I'll be happy to discuss with you. This may take me some time; I will get back with you.


----------



## 480

BehindSmile said:


> Your type is: ESFJ
> 
> ESFJ - "Seller". Most sociable of all types. Nurturer of harmony. Outstanding host or hostesses. 12.3% of total population.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Huh...I am like 49% introvert and 51% extrovert. It really depends on my situation.
> 
> How can I know if I am an ESFJ or an ISFJ for sure? Anyone want to help me out?




I'll take a stab at this, though I do not have the benefit of your education in psychology.

You're either one of or the other, the fact you chose ISFJ for yourself here suggests something. I'm guessing that you've read both profiles and ISFJ is the one that resonates most to you. 
I tested XNTJ, dead even between I and E. I am not an INTJ. 
Guess work by me:

MBTI is based off cognitive function order. My cognitive functions are Te, Ti, Se/Ni (tied the last set, but the test put Se first.) The test also suggested I am ENTJ. Here's where I think MBTI breaks down a bit. Other ENTJs and even INTJs readily identify me as an ENTJ (A few ENTPs too) But other types are confused, because I end up being not quite what they expect. (Generally speaking...)
MBTI says I am supposed to be Te, Ni, Se, Fe, Te.

http://www.cognitiveprocesses.com/assessment/develop_old.html
Try this test on for size and see what it tells you. You'll get an order of cognitive strengths, and a "guess" at your MBTI. Please share back here, I'm interested in your results.

Also, does what I mentioned about other types removed from ISFJ territory not seeing you as ISFJ make sense to you as well? (Assuming you have been around MBTI enough, of course.)


----------



## EspressiveGirl

*Okay, Bear. Here is the list of people you sent me to watch:*

*Eric Clapton*
*Audrey Hepburn*
*Mira Sorvino*
*Dr. Carl Jung*
*Norah Jones*
*Vanessa Carlton*
*Michelle Branch*
*Kate Beckinsale*
*JK Rowling*
*Aimee Mann*

*Here are the common threads I noted (yes, I actually took notes as I watched them-all in interviews, I might add...)*


*Gesticulations- Each one of these people talked with their hands a great deal to emphasize the words they were speaking. Some, more animated than others (Mann, Beckinsale were reserved in this, but still did it.)*
*Scanning Eyes- As they spoke each one of them seemed to be 'searching' for the right words, as though there was a page in their mind they were reading their thoughts from. This was fascinating to me, as I do this myself, and have told people, "When I talk to you, I see the words forming in my mind as I speak." I think each one of these folk would know exactly what I mean by that.*
*They all chose their words carefully-but they didn't stumble over them. As I said, it was as though they were being very thoughtful with what they said, yet it was cohesive and well-put together.*
*Each one of them came off as very humble (and an incredibly talented group we have...blues/rock legend, Oscar winners, celebrated psychologist...amazing people...) When given praise, they very humbly shook it off, and pushed the focus off of themselves and onto other collaborators or family members who they felt contributed greatly to their successes. I am this way, as well. I want credit given where it is due (I noted this esp. with Eric Clapton...)*
*They were unflinchingly determined to remain true to themselves and their artistic choices. Two artists were asked about the films they chose to work in and both, almost word-for-word answered, "I can't work in something I don't like. I would never work in something merely for the money." That was very interesting to me. *
*The theme of Genuineness- All of these people were not taking themselves nearly as seriously as everyone who was dazzled by them did. Norah Jones esp. was repetitive w/one interviewer...she kept telling her, "C'mon, now lets be truthful..." and "Well, it wasn't quite like that..." the interviewer kept trying to sensationalize things NJ had done and she was very tactfully bringing things back to their real shape and size. She did not play up that "drama"...and almost all these people did that in one way or another. I do this as well...genuineness and lack of pretense was displayed by all these folk. I cannot abide pretentiousness. I don't practice it and I don't tolerate it well.*
*Of those who were Moms, they were UberMoms. (Beckinsale, Rowling) Very dedicated to family and making sure they were secure.*
*These folk were all very aware of their strengths and weaknesses, and kept that all in the proper perspective and balance. *
*All were very well-spoken and intellectual. I was esp. surprised by Sorvino who (amazingly beautiful) told Letterman, "No, I'm not going out tonight, I'm going to go home and read." I love her! *
*Each of them knew from a very young age exactly what they were supposed to do and were doggedly determined to do it, no matter what.*
*All displayed similar traits of tenacity and dedication to their craft, to their ideals (Jung was very clear about this, as were Rowling and Jones.), and to what they held as sacred. *
*Resilience in the face of tragedy and loss...that was also something I noted about them.*
*Wow...I was pretty stunned. I loved the quotes I wrote down, esp. by Norah Jones.*
*"I find beauty in simplicity and subtlety," she stated, "I know what I am good at and I try not to over-reach." I loved that. Those are words I have spoken myself (in re: my writing...) It is very important for these 9's to fulfill their individual destiny.*

*Ironically, I find myself in a position where that very determination in my own life finds me at a place where I must make a difficult decision. I know what I'm supposed to do, but there are people around me who would have me do what they think I'm supposed to do, and I have to decide, "Will I go with what I know is right for me, or will I continue to NOT rock the boat and keep everyone else happy even though the price will be my misery?"*

*Hmmmm....interesting timing in all of this learning I'm doing. *
*Thanks for the insight.*


----------



## 480

snail said:


> Interesting. I never tested as a 1w2, but I think I did test as a 2w1 a few times (or was it 2w3?). I have also tested as a 9w1. My results are inconsistent. Please explain your reasons for thinking I might be a 1w2. That is a type I hadn't considered.



Moved this from the Resilience and Ego thread, this seemed like a better home for it, and I'll answer the question here.

Snail, it has to do with your constant seeking of perfection, you're strict on yourself and on others, but I also see a people pleasing bent to you.

1w9 is more hard on self, but more willing to cut others some slack. I see you as having a standard of what you deem is perfect/acceptable and applying it to everyone.

Check out interviews with these people on youtube:

Sandra Day O'Connor
Emma Thompson
Angela Lansbury
Kathryn Morris
Diana Rigg
Carolyn Kepcher


----------



## snail

I hope that's not how I come across.  I don't think of myself as a perfectionist. I'm just an idealist. I think what you see as my desire for others to be perfect has more to do with the "self-protective" aspect of the enneagram. I usually only want them to be perfect in areas where I would be harmed by their not being so. I seek to avoid pain. In fact, at this point in my life, I might actually be more concerned with avoiding painful emotions than with being helpful or good, just because I feel like I have to in order to keep going. If "correcting" the hurtful flaws of others makes me feel safer, I will at least attempt it, and in order to avoid hypocricy when expecting them not to hurt me, I must also try to follow my own standards by treating others as I wish to be treated. 

No... actually, now that I think of it, it is more than just that. I guess I do want to be perfect, but only because it is a worthwhile goal, no matter how unachievable it is. I want to be as pure as possible, striving toward the ideal so that maybe someday I can like myself... again, so I can avoid pain. Ironically, a perfect person wouldn't base all of her actions on fear, or on any selfish motives at all.


----------



## 480

snail said:


> I hope that's not how I come across.  I don't think of myself as a perfectionist. I'm just an idealist. I think what you see as my desire for others to be perfect has more to do with the "self-protective" aspect of the enneagram. I usually only want them to be perfect in areas where I would be harmed by their not being so. I seek to avoid pain. In fact, at this point in my life, I might actually be more concerned with avoiding painful emotions than with being helpful or good, just because I feel like I have to in order to keep going. If "correcting" the hurtful flaws of others makes me feel safer, I will at least attempt it, and in order to avoid hypocricy when expecting them not to hurt me, I must also try to follow my own standards by treating others as I wish to be treated.
> 
> No... actually, now that I think of it, it is more than just that. I guess I do want to be perfect, but only because it is a worthwhile goal, no matter how unachievable it is. I want to be as pure as possible, striving toward the ideal so that maybe someday I can like myself... again, so I can avoid pain. Ironically, a perfect person wouldn't base all of her actions on fear, or on any selfish motives at all.


The other thing you should give some consideration Snail, is that there is nothing wrong with seeking perfection. I see you sometimes struggling with accepting anything less - that can be hurtful in itself.

And, no matter what enneagram type a person is... all the little things we do, we do to protect ourselves. The only question is the method. For you, it's a matter of perfection. And honestly, I think you're perfect just the way you are.


----------



## εmptε

*You missed me. I'll restate what I said. Even though I'm sure I'm ENTP I would like to go by your theory and test to see if I'm either ENTP or ENTJ.*


----------



## Marco Antonio

Bear said:


> Which of these statements resonates most with you?
> 
> most effortless maintaining of own boundaries...most solid
> 
> most pressure on others boundaries...most dominant...most
> likely to step on others toes without trying
> 
> most balance between stepping on others toes and being
> stepped on...least friction and easiest to get along with
> 
> most likely to have their boundaries disrespected...toes
> stepped on and tested by others.
> 
> most easily agitated over their boundaries being rubbed the
> wrong way...most tightly wound...stiffest.
> 
> most likely to suffer in silence over their boundaries being
> tested.
> 
> It is ok if two of them seem to fit - I'd expect one to have a stronger pull than the other if that is the case. If this ends up being true, let me know which has more meaning to you.


hmmm i'm more like:

*most effortless maintaining of own boundaries...most solid
most pressure on others boundaries...most dominant..*
but,
*least friction and easiest to get along with.

*So i make my rules and am respected in the community, no one ever tries to cross what i say are the boundaries, and i tend to pressure other's boundaries to let them know how they can't be respected if they don't respect their selves. I usualy move others to reform their boundaries in order to perfect them.
I am dominant and give orders unconsciously, but if i notice i'm being too harsh i don't care about what orders i gave and do it myself; I'm not domineering, i just know most of the times the thing i say will be right and done, without questioning, but am not eggocentric and try not to force my influence in others, so i'm easy to get along with.


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## 480

BadWolf said:


> *You missed me. I'll restate what I said. Even though I'm sure I'm ENTP I would like to go by your theory and test to see if I'm either ENTP or ENTJ.*


I'm not sure if this is directed at me or not, but on the chance that it is, I don't have a theory about you being ENTJ or ENTP, and the enneagram doesnt tie into MBTI in any way that is reliable. If you're sure you're ENTP--enjoy!


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## 480

Marco Antonio said:


> hmmm i'm more like:
> 
> *most effortless maintaining of own boundaries...most solid
> most pressure on others boundaries...most dominant..*
> but,
> *least friction and easiest to get along with.
> 
> *So i make my rules and am respected in the community, no one ever tries to cross what i say are the boundaries, and i tend to pressure other's boundaries to let them know how they can't be respected if they don't respect their selves. I usualy move others to reform their boundaries in order to perfect them.
> I am dominant and give orders unconsciously, but if i notice i'm being too harsh i don't care about what orders i gave and do it myself; I'm not domineering, i just know most of the times the thing i say will be right and done, without questioning, but am not eggocentric and try not to force my influence in others, so i'm easy to get along with.


This is interesting to me. Do us a favor; look back over this thread--specifically replies 8-18 andd reply #66 (page 7). Let me know what you think about the questions and such expressed there, does any of that make sense to you? Any of it apply to you?


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