# Insight needed re: ISTJ Male!



## ChazBomb (May 10, 2011)

Hi All,

Ok-background:

Me: ESFJ/ENFJ
My Parents: ISTJ's
My (now) ex: ISTJ

Total time in relationship- approx 6 years. We have a child together. Him-32,classic ISTJ. Hard working, dependable, responsible, intelligent, financially secure, stubborn, workaholic, stress-head-always has the final say and always thinks he's right  Me- 28, loyal, committed, affectionate, passionate, loud and willing to argue the point if I think he's wrong 

The problem:

I'm well aware that ISTJ's don't do things by halves-once they have reached a decision (as a result of careful planning and strategy) they are steadfast in their beliefs and always back themselves and their decisions-trying to compromise with him after this point is like banging your head against a brick wall!

Knowing this, I'm confused as to why my ex moved out about a year ago after an argument and 3 days of the silent treatment, ringing me one night and telling me that he wouldn't be coming home (had made other living arrangements and had already been to the house to collect his belongings etc), that our seperation would be permanent, had considered and had plans for the children/finances etc BUT was back two days later after declaring his love for me to my Father. :shocked: He moved back in straight away and our relationship continued.

He doesn't respond well to stress at all, and a year later, after a period of acute stress (health, work, personal etc) and after a rather heated argument between us, I got the silent treatment for 3 days (shutdown) and the declaration that he was moving out the next day. Again, he had arranged accomodation and had thought of everything but stalled when it came to packing his belongings. He also asked if he could stay the night, despite having somewhere else to go (in my experience, a cranky, overwhelmed ISTJ would run for the hills, not hang around!). I was incredibly upset and tried to explain how uncomfortable and difficult it was for me to live in the same house with him, let alone the same bed and that it would be better for both of us if he left that day-he had made things final and ended the relationship and I needed time to get my head around it. He then tells me that he's not ending our relationship, that it can be fixed, that we just need some time apart and scheduled a visit with me for a week's time. Two days later, he calls to ask whether he can take the kids and I out for dinner and stay the night. His plan of staying over two nights during the week and every second weekend in an effort to mend our relationship turned into him staying over 6 nights out of 7 at HIS request (as you can imagine, I wasn't prepared to question or argue and I was glad to have him back). Fast forward 6 weeks and we're here again after he moved out 4 days ago, after another heated argument and the silent treatment for 3 days. Before leaving, he tells me that we "didn't stick to the plan" last time, and we need to do this to have any chance of a relationship and that it was easier for him to fix his relationship with me than to start again with someone else. I tried to explain to him how the distance he'd created between us after he'd shut down days earlier had damaged our relationship to a point where I didn't know whether I could trust his motivation, judgement or the chances of our relationship surviving. Yes I loved him but could I risk getting hurt again? His response was "I'll call you in two days when you've calmed down and want to work this out. All we need is some time apart, I'm convinced of that. Give it a couple of weeks and things will be like they were in the beginning-I'll call you tonight". I told him not to bother after feeling as though he wasn't prepared to discuss or validate my point in a fit of extraverted hurt feelings and we haven't spoken since. 

I think I'm a little to close to the action and too emotionally involved at the moment to see things objectively so any insight into my situation is _greatly_ appreciated. :happy:


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## progBOT (May 4, 2011)

I honestly don't think that this is a tough decision, but it is a tough situation (if that makes sense). Having kids always makes things harder, as do long relationships; however, from what you have said, I don't see this relationship going anywhere. All I see happening is you getting more emotionally hurt, him becoming even more unstable (which it seems he is EXTREMELY unstable now), and it all having a negative impact on your children. In my experience (and from what I've seen in everyone I've known's experiences) time apart does NOT mean a better relationship, in fact it means the opposite. In EVERY healthy marriage I've ever witnessed neither side leaves and goes somewhere else for days to be alone, they always sit down and talk it out until the problem gets resolved, which isn't the case with yours.

If he is leaving, and coming back constantly (which it seems he's done this 3-4 times now) then he is obviously conflicted and cannot decide if he likes you or not. He flat out said that "we need to do this to have any chance of a relationship and that it was easier for him to fix his relationship with me than to start again with someone else" which to me means that he wants to make this work with you because it is CONVENIENT, and for no other reason.

Now all feelings aside, do you really want to be with a person like this and do you want this person to be a role model to your children? Does this situation make you happy?


Recently I've had a friend (my best friend) who was with a girl for about 4 years total. He was miserable from year 2 to 4 and at year 2 he asked me my advice on his situation and basically spilled his guts to me about everything that had been happening. I told him then and there to leave her, that she was not good for him and that nothing good could come from this relationship. 2 years later he finally took my advice and has been a hugely happier person since.

I feel that his situation is not unlike your own. I think that it would be better, for both of you, to split up.
"What is right is often forgotten by what is convenient" -Bodie Thoene


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## yesiknowbut (Oct 25, 2009)

The "more convenient to try with you" is something I think an ISTJ would say, not noticing the fact that while it might be convenient, it might not make either of you happy: disregarding the feeling element.

It doesn't seem like he is communicating with you at all, does it? You sound like you are trying your best. 

Have the arguments that led to his moving out all been about the same thing? If so, can it be fixed?

How is your child in this, how is his/her best interest served?

Sometimes it's worth imagining that someone else came to you for advice over a man you didn't know, and told you what you have told us. What would you advise them?

All questions, no answers, but hey, it's your decision. Good luck with it


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## ChazBomb (May 10, 2011)

Thank you SO much guys for your insights-it's given me some food for thought.

I do believe that he is incredibly unstable right now. When he gets stressed, he gets easily overwhelmed after trying to constantly "minimise" the stressors and plain shuts down. Communication at this point is always incredibly difficult because in an effort to regain control, he becomes incredibly stubborn, harshly decisive and (dare I say it!!!!) IRRATIONAL. You can imagine how I take this as an ESFJ/ENFJ-all personally (well, I used to  ). I've noticed that I have had to curb my Fe and "think strategic-ISTJ-style" when in these situations because this unstable ISTJ would then deflect all the blame onto my emotional response and not what caused it. His typical style is to minimise, blame and make excuses in these situations-I know he tries to avoid conflict and is maybe using these as coping mechanisms? 

I do agree that the "time apart" concept doesn't sit well with me, but that's probably because I need to talk and get a resolution to make me feel better while he needs time in his own head space to get his head around it. I also subscribe to the theory that if you want it to work, you stay and tough it out-not everything is easy. Recognising when to check out emotionally is harder to do!!!


A bit more background: We began our relationship 10 years ago, were together for 18 months before I fell pregnant. We split amicably while I was still pregnant and both formed 4 year relationships of our own (both resulting in a child each). We had a good relationship as parents and we never seemed to have problems-we always did the right thing by each-other and our son. We both ended our relationships 6 months apart (he ended his as his ex had been unfaithful and I ended mine because I wanted a partner, not a son) and developed a close friendship. One thing led to another and suddenly we became a blended family-of our son, his daughter and my son. Unfortunately, his ex is very unstable which has resulted in a fair amount of stress-she would come into our home and completely ignore me, fail to work with us and the pre-school/school re: her daughters behaviour, treat her for headlice etc. The head lice issue has been a very very very sticky and complex problem. Kids get head lice-it's a fact. However, it's treatable-it's not cancer. Which is why I just can't understand why and how my stepdaughter could arrive every single fortnight RIDDLED with them (I know I'm an ESFJ but I'm really not exaggerating when I say every fortnight and RIDDLED with them). It takes hours to get them all out of her hair as she hasn't been able to get a hair cut in four years because of them and her scalp is covered in scabs from her constant scratching. It used to rip my heart out to watch her cry and scratch in her sleep and I felt really disheartened after treating her to have her return with just as many-if not more upon her next visit. The whole household then needs to be treated (she's given them to me 3 times-erg!!!), her linen washed, the couches vaccuumed etc) and feels punished by having to sit there for hours being treated instead of being able to play with her step brothers. After almost 3 years of constant lice, I spat the dummy. I couldn't understand how such a simple problem was being mis-managed to the point of child neglect. I had spoken to my ISTJ and made suggestions on how to approach the situation eg-phoning the ex the night before/during the week to ask if she had treated/checked her, getting the school involved to advocate on her behalf etc because ultimately, besides the amount of work and stress it caused us, the CHILD was the biggest victim. While I think deep down he probably reached the same conclusion, he was hesitant to address his ex and push the subject for the sake of his daughter due to the threat of her moving interstate (which would then severely restrict contact). It also turns out his ex has also had constant head lice issues herself the last few months, which doesn't suprise me considering the amount of lice I remove off her daughters head every fortnight! What minimal intervention he did implement towards the end, still wasn't yielding any positive results-the situation required further intervention that he wasn't willing to implement, which left us in a vicious cycle of a battle of wills, lice and a child caught in the middle 

The convenience comment I am in two minds about-however I do believe it is mostly motivated by his own agendas rather than "ours". I think he's being realistic about his chances of attracting another mate because he works 12 days out of 14, finds it incredibly hard to "let his guard down" emotionally with people (like he has with me-already done the ground work), is not interested in having more kids, doesn't like to socialise etc-I think he already knows it would require more effort than he's prepared to give and would rather invest that time in his business ventures instead, despite occasionally feeling lonely. 

My ESFJ tendancies want to stay and type all day but I've got a tonne of work to do-damn it! 

I shall go ponder your points progBOT and alfreda...........


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## yesiknowbut (Oct 25, 2009)

Poor kid. To an extent, poor istj male, and of course majorly poor you.
Your bloke needs to have it told to him what his priorities are, as he has them all wrong.
Like it or not, work comes at the bottom of the list. Speaking as a (ha ha) recovering workaholic, the tendency is to get yourself tied into huge knots dealing with life so that work can carry on. It takes something really big to realise that it needs to be the other way around. Now that might be more difficult for an ISTJ to compute than this ENTP, but maybe appeal to his sense of duty: whether or not you and he stay together the ones that come first have to be the kids.
Tell him to take a holiday and consider changing his life. It might save it.

headlice...hmm. I've done battle with these beasts for years. If you still see her, can I suggest that your step-daughter's visit to you starts with a silicone-based treatment (look for "dimeticone" on the pack) which is completely non-toxic, and will get rid of the current crop? Each time it should take 3 weeks to grow the population up to its previous level, and if you see her every two, you might make headway (pardon the pun...lol). If she were to come for a two-week holiday at some point, you could even work on eradication which will allow a haircut, and make the whole process easier. I can recommend the nitty-gritty comb as the best thing ever, no idea if you can get them in the States, but you can get them online.....if she and/or her brothers are the right kind of kids you can have fun organising countings, looking at the beasts with a magnifying glass or microscope, or just killing them with extreme prejudice!

...now of course it is your ISTJ's job to negotiate this with his ex and oversee it, and really to do the treatment (but we're trying to live in the real world here) and if he does not do this he is neglecting his child. Yeah, I know that sounds harsh. It will sound harsh when you point it out to him as well. He is failing in in his duty to his daughter. I think you should make him stand up and be accountable for that.


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