# Do you Believe...



## RobynC (Jun 10, 2011)

...that it's okay, under some circumstances to water down the truth, or even lie, order to get people to accept the truth? 

The absurdity is not lost on me _(isn't it ridiculous that you can't just tell the truth, and that be that?)_, but with some subjects being difficult to get people to accept, as well as the increasingly divided nature of our society, I figure, if you have to water things down, or outright lie to people to get them to accept the truth, that's okay with me.


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## attic (May 20, 2012)

In the case of simplifying I think it can be at times. But it can be done in a bad manipulative way, to make it seem something it isn't, or in order to communicate better with someone who can't understand it if you don't. So it would of course depend. But there is so much not all of us can grasp, either because we are not smart enough, or because we don't have the time to learn and understand everything. There is so much in this world.


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## Hexigoon (Mar 12, 2018)

I guess so, that's basically what artists do. Using the fictional to tell truths.


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## Blazkovitz (Mar 16, 2014)

Distorting reality backfires against anyone who uses this tactic. Remember the case of Saddam's WMDs. I'm still not convinces he didn't have them. It's very possible he sent them to Syria or hid them in the sands of Anbar. Even if Saddam really didn't have WMDs in 2003, he would regain the ability to manufacture them quite soon, since his chemists were quite advanced. So the case for war was strong anyway. But the American voters made up their minds quite soon. "Bush lied, people died" became a catchphrase and it led to the demise of the entire neocon orientation.


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## Blazkovitz (Mar 16, 2014)

Hexigoon said:


> I guess so, that's basically what artists do. Using the fictional to tell truths.


I wouldn't call it either distorting reality or lying. Tolkien never wanted the reader to believe that the Middle Earth really existed.


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## Arthrospira (Feb 18, 2020)

If you need to distort actual facts in order to get people to accept something, then maybe that something is not _the_ truth and it’s time to reevaluate where you stand on that matter. Or simply agree to disagree instead of trying to convince others. Also lying is not a good way to go about things and has a tendency of blowing up in your face.


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## Hexigoon (Mar 12, 2018)

Blazkovitz said:


> I wouldn't call it either distorting reality or lying. Tolkien never wanted the reader to believe that the Middle Earth really existed.


Sure, but he most probably wanted to express something he found to be true within his work.


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## Arthrospira (Feb 18, 2020)

Hexigoon said:


> Sure, but he most probably wanted to express something he found to be true within his work.


Any body of work contains something from its creator; sure, fiction could be used for propaganda purposes or the creator could subscribe to the “art for the sake of people”, but so long as they don’t claim to report real events/happenings/data that would be more akin to metaphors, not watering down/distorting facts to fit their agenda like newspeople do. That “ends justify the means” mindset media has is also the main reson why there is so much misinformation around and we have triple-check their sources to believe anything.


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## Rascal01 (May 22, 2016)

While I do not agree with lying, the truth diluted or shared in small bits may be helpful. The doctor treating a likely terminal patient is one example. Sometimes it may be better to say nothing at all. I would be very careful with counter-productive truths that shatter dreams or steal away hope for a better tomorrow.


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## Paulie (Jun 23, 2011)

RobynC said:


> ...that it's okay, under some circumstances to water down the truth, or even lie, order to get people to accept the truth?
> 
> The absurdity is not lost on me _(isn't it ridiculous that you can't just tell the truth, and that be that?)_, but with some subjects being difficult to get people to accept, as well as the increasingly divided nature of our society, I figure, if you have to water things down, or outright lie to people to get them to accept the truth, that's okay with me.


There's never of anything as "truth" or to accept the truth, which is even worse. If anyone ever claims so, run away quickly and don't come back.


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## ReliK (Feb 24, 2019)

What I occasionally see when I meet people who claim to have some foothold on 'the truth' ... :laughing:


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## Snowflake Minuet (Feb 20, 2016)

I don't think it's ever right to lie, with the potential exception of white lies in which no outcome is really changed and those being lied to are not significantly affected (I still don't think that's really right, but that's as far as I'll go in practical situations). I definitely don't think it's ever right to lie in order to get something out of someone; if you're lying in order to get someone to agree with you on what you understand to be a truth about something, you are using that person towards your own benefit and not respecting their own thinking and opinions, and those should be respected equally as yours.

I think it is fine--and very useful--to use fiction, art, metaphors, etc. to help illustrate your views and help someone else see things in a different light, but the intentions can't be manipulative.


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## Thefabricwhichbleedstruth (Dec 31, 2019)

I believe that it is sometimes okay if preserving one’s feelingful health is the objective..


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

If the facts don't convince them, nothing will.


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## Fennel (Jan 11, 2017)

The thing about truth is that it can stand alone. And truth is good and beautiful.

A small lie will lead to more lies, until they build up a high tower that's going to come crashing down anyway. Why would anyone want to build something like that?


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## DAVIE (Mar 16, 2018)

I'm going to be boring and say "it depends on the circumstance".


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## RobynC (Jun 10, 2011)

I'd agree with the last message


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## He's a Superhero! (May 1, 2013)

No, I'm not in support of telling lies. Also, is it just me, or does sounds somewhat like manipulation?

At any rate, when they learn that you used lies to teach them, then they are likely to discard everything you taught them, as how can they believe any of it if some of it is a lie?
Better to try to teach them to facts as they are, without throwing in lies.


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