# The alluring trap of INFP's..



## ScarlettHayden (Jun 8, 2012)

So, I don't know if anyone else has experienced this, but for some reason I always end up making friends with INFP's. And it never EVER seems to work out. It's like, they pull me in with their Ne charm, and at first we connect with that. Then the feelings stuff comes along and it's like "wow, this is amazing, someone actually wants to listen to me". But then I get to a point where I realize all they ever do is talk about feelings, without actually ever talking about how they feel, somehow. That's usually when it becomes a chore to try and make the conversations more fun again, and once that happens, I stop trying, thereby making the friendship completely fizzle out. The conclusion.. we never talk again.

It's like, I always fall for their charm, even though I know where it'll eventually lead. Anyone else experienced this or is that just me?

Edit: Also.. I've just met an ENFP for the first time and we seem to get along like an explosion on drugged up marshmellows.. is the same thing bound to happen or will the dominant Ne override that?


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## Ista (Feb 5, 2012)

Where to begin, where to begin.


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## The Proof (Aug 5, 2009)

Why don't you make some more NT friends, they can't all be shut-ins hahaha


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## MerelyARumor (Feb 20, 2013)

Usually I tell other people SOME of my less important problems that way they open up and trust me more and its a lot easier to help them , but then after that I don't want to talk about my feelings because....I don't want people to get sad because of me, even if we are boring after we are still around if people need to vent


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## ScarlettHayden (Jun 8, 2012)

The Proof said:


> Why don't you make some more NT friends, they can't all be shut-ins hahaha


I wish I could but there seems to be an over-abudance of NF's here. The only other NT I know is my best friend. (who is awesome sauce btw)



Ista said:


> Where to begin, where to begin.


I take it you know what I'm talking about..?



Envisionarylunacy said:


> Usually I tell other people SOME of my less important problems that way they open up and trust me more and its a lot easier to help them , but then after that I don't want to talk about my feelings because....I don't want people to get sad because of me, even if we are boring after we are still around if people need to vent


I understand that, but I think it's rather frustrating because I would rather someone say what they are feeling and have it all done with than hold it in. I don't push people for details, but it does begin to feel really one sided after a while.


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## MerelyARumor (Feb 20, 2013)

maybe they don't trust you with those kinds of things? Why does it bother you if its one sided? That's what infps do, they are everyones shoulder to cry on and have no shoulder of there own....they are only going to tell u things if they incredibly trust you.


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## ScarlettHayden (Jun 8, 2012)

Envisionarylunacy said:


> maybe they don't trust you with those kinds of things? Why does it bother you if its one sided? That's what infps do, they are everyones shoulder to cry on and have no shoulder of there own....they are only going to tell u things if they incredibly trust you.


I think it bothers me because there I am pouring everything out and nothing is reciprocated. Kinda makes for a poor relationship don't you think? I guess it's hard because I tend to tell people almost everything (if they ask that is), regardless of whether I trust them or not. ENTP thing? Not sure. Whilst if you ask an INFP something they just come back at you with a brick wall. I feel like I have nothing to work with to engage conversation and in the end it just fizzles out and dies..

One of my best friends was an INFP once.. it was one of the best friendships, but it was kinda on and off for a couple of years and then it just died out completely and we just stopped talking altogether..

I dated an INFP once and it ended up exactly the same way.. except this time the whole process was a lot quicker.

Idk, is it just that Ne-Ti and Fi-Ne are eventually incompatible?


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## MerelyARumor (Feb 20, 2013)

haha I find you quite strange for wanting infps emotional baggage


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## MerelyARumor (Feb 20, 2013)

wrong thread..edit lol


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## BelleBlue (Apr 17, 2013)

We are sparing your feelings...if you are on an emotional roller-coaster about a girl that broke your heart, I will listen and try to make you feel better. But, making you feel better probably doesn't include me telling you the heart wrenching details of growing up with a Histrionic Mother, or losing part of my family over a difference in religion, or watching my first child die. That won't make you feel warm and cozy...but I want you to feel warm and cozy because you are here right now. You are alive, brilliant, loved, and talented and we want to see you embrace the good and make this world a better, more interesting place.


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## mushr00m (May 23, 2011)

ScarlettHayden said:


> I think it bothers me because there I am pouring everything out and nothing is reciprocated. Kinda makes for a poor relationship don't you think? I guess it's hard because I tend to tell people almost everything (if they ask that is), regardless of whether I trust them or not. ENTP thing? Not sure. Whilst if you ask an INFP something they just come back at you with a brick wall. I feel like I have nothing to work with to engage conversation and in the end it just fizzles out and dies..
> 
> One of my best friends was an INFP once.. it was one of the best friendships, but it was kinda on and off for a couple of years and then it just died out completely and we just stopped talking altogether..
> 
> ...


Do you think you may be setting your expectations too high? I say this because its quite pressurising and eventually draining having to be the perfect friend or whatever, its just much easier to easen up on those things. I tend to view friendships that develop into something deeper down the line, something that gets better with trust and acceptance. I think perhaps being an Ne dom, you are looking for immediate, continuous stimulation where as being an Fi dom and being introverted, we need time to reflect and make sense of things in our head, so we're not always full on the way you may want. We also tend to hold back and absorb what the other person is saying before we can form immediate responses, I actually hate being pressured to talk or forced to immediately respond, I need a few seconds for the thought to follow this filtering canal before the thought leaves my mouth. I am a perfectionist in the way I express things aswell sometimes, so thats why I tend to take longer to formulate sentences. Have some patience. And maybe find other extroverted friends to hang around with and then come find your INFP friends when they are bouncing off Ne :wink:


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## ScarlettHayden (Jun 8, 2012)

mushr00m said:


> Do you think you may be setting your expectations too high? I say this because its quite pressurising and eventually draining having to be the perfect friend or whatever, its just much easier to easen up on those things. I tend to view friendships that develop into something deeper down the line, something that gets better with trust and acceptance. I think perhaps being an Ne dom, you are looking for immediate, continuous stimulation where as being an Fi dom and being introverted, we need time to reflect and make sense of things in our head, so we're not always full on the way you may want. We also tend to hold back and absorb what the other person is saying before we can form immediate responses, I actually hate being pressured to talk or forced to immediately respond, I need a few seconds for the thought to follow this filtering canal before the thought leaves my mouth. I am a perfectionist in the way I express things aswell sometimes, so thats why I tend to take longer to formulate sentences. Have some patience. And maybe find other extroverted friends to hang around with and then come find your INFP friends when they are bouncing off Ne :wink:


Not asking for perfection.. Just would be nice if at least one friendship I make with an INFP were to survive.. I really like you guys, you're awesome to get along with. Yeah, guess you're right, I need more extroverted friends haha! Most extroverts I find are too loud and annyoing though.. Se doms probably. Really really difficult to find Ne doms, so I tend to make friends with the introverts who are usually more intuitive. 

Okay, a question to you INFP's. What do you think of Ne doms when they're on a tangent and talk about everything and nothing all at once? My INFP friend said it was interesting and could listen to me talk all day.. but I eventually ran out of things to say since it was mostly one sided and I had nothing to work with.. hence why it died out. What do you other INFP's think?


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## MerelyARumor (Feb 20, 2013)

i don't really understand what u mean by died out, if someone stops talking to me it doesn't mean i wont talk to them again if they choose to do so at a later time when they have something to talk about, i usually feel forgotten by my freinds


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## ScarlettHayden (Jun 8, 2012)

Envisionarylunacy said:


> i don't really understand what u mean by died out, if someone stops talking to me it doesn't mean i wont talk to them again if they choose to do so at a later time when they have something to talk about, i usually feel forgotten by my freinds


It probably dies out because I get bored of constantly having a one-sided conversation. Hmm interesting you say that. I guess it must be hard being an INFP?


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## MerelyARumor (Feb 20, 2013)

being introverted helps..xD


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## nezumify (Feb 7, 2013)

I have an INFP as a best friend and a few ENFP friends. The only thing that irritates me about the relationship is the emotionally depressed ruts that xNFPs can get into. The ones that they can't seem to get out of, and even though I know a logical solution to it. Even though most people can see the cause and effect but no one can say anything because it's not like the xNFP doesn't already know, and saying something only seems to make them swirl deeper into unhappiness. I've tried, and it never works. Plus I get told that I'm too blunt, so now I start off important discussions with "I'm not trying to hurt your feelings, but I don't have a gentler way to say this...."


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## mentok (Feb 9, 2012)

ScarlettHayden said:


> Not asking for perfection.. Just would be nice if at least one friendship I make with an INFP were to survive.. I really like you guys, you're awesome to get along with. Yeah, guess you're right, I need more extroverted friends haha! Most extroverts I find are too loud and annyoing though.. Se doms probably. Really really difficult to find Ne doms, so I tend to make friends with the introverts who are usually more intuitive.
> 
> Okay, a question to you INFP's. What do you think of Ne doms when they're on a tangent and talk about everything and nothing all at once? My INFP friend said it was interesting and could listen to me talk all day.. but I eventually ran out of things to say since it was mostly one sided and I had nothing to work with.. hence why it died out. What do you other INFP's think?


sometimes when im talking to someone who seems to talk a lot I just let them keep going because I assume they like to have control of the conversation.


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## mentok (Feb 9, 2012)

ScarlettHayden said:


> Not asking for perfection.. Just would be nice if at least one friendship I make with an INFP were to survive.. I really like you guys, you're awesome to get along with. Yeah, guess you're right, I need more extroverted friends haha! Most extroverts I find are too loud and annyoing though.. Se doms probably. Really really difficult to find Ne doms, so I tend to make friends with the introverts who are usually more intuitive.
> 
> Okay, a question to you INFP's. What do you think of Ne doms when they're on a tangent and talk about everything and nothing all at once? My INFP friend said it was interesting and could listen to me talk all day.. but I eventually ran out of things to say since it was mostly one sided and I had nothing to work with.. hence why it died out. What do you other INFP's think?


Sometimes when im talking to someone that has a tendency to go off on a tangent then I just assume that they like to have control of the conversation. I dont usually have a problem with this as long as the person is somewhat interesting and there is no hostility. Also if you would like some input try asking for some. An infp wont share their deepest feelings but they most likely can relate to you in someway.


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## Brian1 (May 7, 2011)

nezumify said:


> I have an INFP as a best friend and a few ENFP friends. The only thing that irritates me about the relationship is the emotionally depressed ruts that xNFPs can get into. The ones that they can't seem to get out of, and even though I know a logical solution to it. Even though most people can see the cause and effect but no one can say anything because it's not like the xNFP doesn't already know, and saying something only seems to make them swirl deeper into unhappiness. I've tried, and it never works. Plus I get told that I'm too blunt, so now I start off important discussions with "I'm not trying to hurt your feelings, but I don't have a gentler way to say this...."


I've just been in your shoes many times. I'm pretty blunt in my approach. i've heard they want some type of validation, and that'll make them feel better. Nice line, I've got to try that.


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## Boomerang (Apr 3, 2013)

ScarlettHayden said:


> So, I don't know if anyone else has experienced this, but for some reason I always end up making friends with INFP's. And it never EVER seems to work out. It's like, they pull me in with their Ne charm, and at first we connect with that. Then the feelings stuff comes along and it's like "wow, this is amazing, someone actually wants to listen to me". But then I get to a point where I realize all they ever do is talk about feelings, without actually ever talking about how they feel, somehow. That's usually when it becomes a chore to try and make the conversations more fun again, and once that happens, I stop trying, thereby making the friendship completely fizzle out. The conclusion.. we never talk again.
> 
> It's like, I always fall for their charm, even though I know where it'll eventually lead. Anyone else experienced this or is that just me?
> 
> Edit: Also.. I've just met an ENFP for the first time and we seem to get along like an explosion on drugged up marshmellows.. is the same thing bound to happen or will the dominant Ne override that?


This sounds more like a problem you have rather than a problems INFPs have. You expect these people to reciprocate things when they really have no reason to. When they do, they do. Haven't you also noticed a paradox, here? You're readily willing to drop people and stop trying, yet you expect them to open up to you. An INFP needs to trust the person they're opening up to before they'll get going, but why should they trust a person who stops trying to advance the friendship if it isn't what they expect? That's counter-intuitive, to me. 

Also, speaking for myself... I'm an INFP and I don't talk about feelings all the time, so I just think it's a fairly homogenous batch of INFPs you're getting. I have a stupid, retarded and wacky sense of humour and ENTPs usually play along with it. In fact, the INFP+ENTP combination can get pretty wacky in the hilarious yet totally stupid kind of way.


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## Brian1 (May 7, 2011)

devoid said:


> Hmm, would I rather date an INFP or beat myself over the head with a crowbar? Which one will be more painful in the long-run... These are important things to consider. Crowbars can't jump to erroneous conclusions based on their personal insecurities, attack you randomly and then use your reaction as a basis for treating you like shit...


this. I think this is where they're confused, because, they don't understand the Ti, Te, but I want to bring in our close cousins, the Js as INFPs have problems with both us Thinkers and Judgers, and I've had my words used against me based upon people's insecurities of themselves,without being told what those are. I'm not psychic.


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## The Hungry One (Jan 26, 2011)

Casually inserting a "Not every INFP is like that." 

Though I guess it seems a major INFP flaw would be a lack of communication (probably because they think there's no use in communicating--no one will understand them), a habit of being too sensitive, and a habit of jumping to conclusions and then using data to support conclusions based on feelings (rather than the other way around, as it should be).


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## lilysocks (Nov 7, 2012)

themonocle said:


> Hmmm. Now, wait for a minute. If anyone can take the cake for being a blunt jerk it's an overtaxed INFJ. It's not just a T thing. Or an INFP thing. It may be an introverted thing. For an introverted thinker it might be the same as someone coming along and taking over your thought child. Telling you how insensitive you are because they just want some credit for a project too and you are hogging all the intellectual property. I could see how well that would fly.
> 
> That's where I would start brandishing mechanical pencils and get stabby about my book reports.


Hee. Nah, must be pure introvert. Can't remember if I'm supposed to be an introverted thinker or not, but I get the same way myself. Point to me is, a) pragmatism and emotion are two separate types of conversation - a logistical 'answer' to something I'm trying to identify on the emotional level is just dissonant. And b) on that thinking level, I guess I like to think out my own solutions all by myself.


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## Brian1 (May 7, 2011)

The Hungry One said:


> Casually inserting a "Not every INFP is like that."
> 
> Though I guess it seems a major INFP flaw would be a lack of communication (probably because they think there's no use in communicating--no one will understand them), a habit of being too sensitive, and a habit of jumping to conclusions and then using data to support conclusions based on feelings (rather than the other way around, as it should be).


I've been on the receiving end of this. I like you guys,but, and each type has it's flaws,some of this type can really go into this unhealthy area, where they don't even consider other people's point of view,because that's an outside source different than what's affecting them internally, and anything I say is viewed as a personal attack, even when I don't intend it like that.


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## listentotherain (Apr 29, 2012)

Brian1 said:


> I've been on the receiving end of this. I like you guys,but, and each type has it's flaws,some of this type can really go into this unhealthy area, where they don't even consider other people's point of view,because that's an outside source different than what's affecting them internally, and anything I say is viewed as a personal attack, even when I don't intend it like that.


alternate persp:

INFP personally defending self from the world.
Unless you've some how switched categories from "world" to "self"...


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## HigherFrequencyYou (Nov 22, 2013)

devoid said:


> Hmm, would I rather date an INFP or beat myself over the head with a crowbar? Which one will be more painful in the long-run... These are important things to consider. Crowbars can't jump to erroneous conclusions based on their personal insecurities, attack you randomly and then use your reaction as a basis for treating you like shit...


Exactly.

Just went through something similar. Totally burned out on Fi. Will never go back.

I love Ne doms though.


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## devoid (Jan 3, 2011)

Gemfish said:


> Exactly.
> 
> Just went through something similar. Totally burned out on Fi. Will never go back.
> 
> I love Ne doms though.


We love ya too guurl.


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## Old Intern (Nov 20, 2012)

@ScarlettHayden I've been thinking about something similar, about not ending up being nice and spending time with people I don't really want to be with. Maybe you could say something up front. I've been practicing this one in my head. Maybe this isn't quite on the mark but . . . . .

I'm not judgemental in the sense that I don't believe in telling other people how to feel, and I don't have a "normal template" that I belive everyone on the planet should line up with. I don't mind if you want to rant about something sometines. I know enough about you that I like you and I am happy to be a listener, or offer input if you ask for it . . . . .

But I don't do well with people who want to pull passive aggressive stuff, like door slaming or pouting, and thinking other people have nothing to do but decode cryptic messages, or jump through fake hoops to test for undying loyalty, or anything like that. So just in case, I'm saying you have to try to be straitforward with me. I'ts okay if it takes you a while to say what is on your mind. I have patience, but not good with mind reading. Just don't play games with me and make yourself hard to understand on purpose. Do you know what I mean? I'm not trying to be a jerk or anything, just wanting to see us not go down a path that makes us both spin wheels, and be unhappy, you know? What do you think about that?

maybe it could be edited, - long winded


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## Fibonacci (Sep 15, 2013)

I've never met any ENTPs so what I'm about to write may not be very helpful. 

I don't 'dumb down' my problems in order to make others understand, I do it to test their reaction. And the reaction I usually get is the silent treatment. My friends have become too comfortable with me being he strong one and their shoulder to cry on. 
I somehow end up smiling and make them feel better by changing the subject :/. 

If I have a valid reason for feeling the way I do, I don't hesitate to speak to my friends about it. But I usually discuss the problem rather than my feelings towards it. 

If I have absolutely no reason to be feeling depressed, then I don't bother. I just wait for the Fi to quiet down and bring me back to reality. I'd rather deal with my own problem than burden it onto others. 

My friends and family think that I'm an insensitive robot with no feelings at all. Maybe I'm doing something right/wrong?


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## SPtheGhost (Apr 26, 2010)

Envisionarylunacy said:


> haha I find you *quite strange* for wanting infps emotional baggage


 an infp calling someone strange ...ive seen it all now


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## Dabbling (Nov 2, 2013)

Here's my four pennyworth.

INFPs are some of my best friends, so I'm biased towards them.

The danger with INFP is that they do give loads of emotional support, but it's important to point out to them regularly that you as INTJ want to support them too, otherwise it doesn't feel fair to you. Otherwise it would be codependency, @Envisionarylunacy and that is not friendship.

When they tell you their problems, try to imagine how it would feel to you to be in that situation. The way they talk is like descriptive writing in fiction but it is even better than reading a book because you can ask questions to clarify points (you did this before that?) and you can kind of get into the story. I love it. I tend to react as me (I would have felt that but I'm not sure I would have gone there) and I simply don't comment on whether what they did or felt was 'right' or 'wrong', any more than I would if reading a book. I find them interesting and they are themselves. As such I don't have a right to judge them, so I don't. In my experience they like this big time and feel 'accepted'. To me that is a no brainer, but it seems to be big to them. It's something I do automatically as INTJ, I think.

When they want 'validation' this is a difficult concept, but after many years and some mistakes I think it means something like this. They feel hurt or something bad has happened. They want to know it wasn't their fault, I think. Not in the sense that us INTJs would do, like a logical reasoning skill and it was 25% me, 75% him. More like 'this s*** happens to everyone because they are human, so it's not your fault it happens, because you are a human'. And they love being hugged.

They are great responders to my emotional written ramblings. If they write back then I can very easily befriend with them. And they are witty and they see through people like we INTJs do, but using different information. Often we have similar views on people but from different data sets. They make me see the world differently. 

I have found the first period of getting to know them is so individual it can be tricky. I tend to think their values are often based on hurts and experiences from their past, and I understand this because there are things that push my buttons too, by bringing up memories. So a discussion where you ask them what their values are in particular, and maybe make it clear that you think they are actually telling you about their past hurts and that you have past hurts too, and that you get that, can be helpful.

I find them fascinating. Indeed I sometimes think that I relate to people as if I am INFP, in terms of collecting data about what my friends are like, but I am more often quite active in situations where there is personal hurt or conflict where they would be more passive. They use sorry in a totally different way than thinker types do, and that can be a bit confusing at first, because they use sorry to mean 'how awful' not 'I take responsibility', and they use it a lot.

So, that's how I see it. Loyal, emotionally intelligent, protective and worth having as friends, like the ones in the story books in many ways. They often seem to start as people pleases, and can be fiercely independent as a later reaction to this (a past hurt, with current result). I would love to know what they mature into after that, if any mature INFPs would care to share...


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## Dabbling (Nov 2, 2013)

Fibonacci said:


> I've never met any ENTPs so what I'm about to write may not be very helpful.
> 
> I don't 'dumb down' my problems in order to make others understand, I do it to test their reaction. And the reaction I usually get is the silent treatment. My friends have become too comfortable with me being he strong one and their shoulder to cry on.
> I somehow end up smiling and make them feel better by changing the subject :/.
> ...


Are you using an INTJ mask, if they think you are an insensitive robot...?


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## Fibonacci (Sep 15, 2013)

Dabbling said:


> Are you using an INTJ mask, if they think you are an insensitive robot...?


I wouldn't say I'm wearing a mask. It's just that they take everything I say too seriously. As you can probably tell, most people I know are feelers. One minute they think I'm too sensitive, the next I'm too insensitive. 
I also don't express my feelings verbally which makes them think I have no emotions at all. 

I think its just my Fi vs their Fe.


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## Dabbling (Nov 2, 2013)

Fibonacci said:


> I wouldn't say I'm wearing a mask. It's just that they take everything I say too seriously. As you can probably tell, most people I know are feelers. One minute they think I'm too sensitive, the next I'm too insensitive.
> I also don't express my feelings verbally which makes them think I have no emotions at all.
> 
> I think its just my Fi vs their Fe.


Well, I can't advise about Feelers, not being one myself. I do find INFPs difficult when they don't admit their feelings, I mean if they describe a situation in which anyone would be tired, then it's easy to read their feeling of tiredness into that correctly. But if the scenario is more complicated like they were badly treated by someone say at work, then I would react in that situation with anger and confrontation, whereas my INFP friend expects me to be internally cringing with horror or tongue tied frustration or something else...to be honest nobody is a mind reader and it is actually better to say 'I felt so alone' than to assume that everyone around you when in the same situation would automatically feel alone as their first response...see? I guess that is the danger of Fi, but I'm no expert on all this.

I have learnt to react by making my own reaction clearer...'that would make me cross'...that can help communication.

Am I taking you too seriously? ;-)

From what you write, you sound pretty normal, neither over or under sensitive. But most Feelers have one or two values which in my experience come from their previous painful experiences, and in those situations you may react in an over sensitive way, which may be noticed...


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## I_am_the_NiTe (Nov 29, 2013)

To the topic creator:

My God how much this sounds like my experience with a female INFP (suspected INFP,) friend of mine. 

She was so terribly attractive at first and I began to think there was something there, but after awhile conversation became awkward/unpleasant/tedious and so our relationship has since fizzed out. 

So, I guess what Im saying here is "I feel ya," although I have also determined its best to leave her behind. There's no sense in forcing something that is difficult to maintain.


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## Le Beau Coeur (Jan 30, 2011)

ScarlettHayden said:


> So, I don't know if anyone else has experienced this, but for some reason I always end up making friends with INFP's. And it never EVER seems to work out. It's like, they pull me in with their Ne charm, and at first we connect with that. Then the feelings stuff comes along and it's like "wow, this is amazing, someone actually wants to listen to me". But then I get to a point where I realize all they ever do is talk about feelings, without actually ever talking about how they feel, somehow. That's usually when it becomes a chore to try and make the conversations more fun again, and once that happens, I stop trying, thereby making the friendship completely fizzle out. The conclusion.. we never talk again.
> 
> It's like, I always fall for their charm, even though I know where it'll eventually lead. Anyone else experienced this or is that just me?
> 
> Edit: Also.. I've just met an ENFP for the first time and we seem to get along like an explosion on drugged up marshmellows.. is the same thing bound to happen or will the dominant Ne override that?


I totally understand what you mean, yes. 

Also I hope things go better with the ENFP.


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## Fish Launcher (Jan 14, 2013)

Not sure if serious....


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## Reticent Charm (Nov 17, 2013)

I’ve gone through this thread and it seems to me that there is a grave misconception of INFP intentions and expectations (granted, not all INFP are the same). Interestingly enough, I have been haunted by the other end of your perpetual experience @ScarlettHayden . I don’t understand why my “friends” (I say it with hesitation because I’m no longer sure what I consider a friend) will convey all of their problems to me and I’ll console and comfort, shut up and just listen when need be, do all I can to be there for them, but they never (at least hardly ever) reciprocate. 

The resulting question, I suppose would be “How can we do that for you if you never open up to begin with?”. It’s a good question and it’ll be a perpetual one if we don’t start to understand each other a little better.

So, first things first “Why don’t you open up?”



BelleBlue said:


> We are sparing your feelings...if you are on an emotional roller-coaster about a girl that broke your heart, I will listen and try to make you feel better. But, making you feel better probably doesn't include me telling you the heart wrenching details of growing up with a Histrionic Mother, or losing part of my family over a difference in religion, or watching my first child die. That won't make you feel warm and cozy...but I want you to feel warm and cozy because you are here right now. You are alive, brilliant, loved, and talented and we want to see you embrace the good and make this world a better, more interesting place.


That’s why I hesitate to open up and, for sure, if the you’re sharing your feelings, pain, heartache I’m not going to pile _mine _onto you as well! 



Brian1 said:


> I think I can sort of understand people's point of just trying to be kind and being accused of being cruel,because, I like to help people, but,its the natural function on the INFP to help people to the point if they don't help people, they feel worthless. Well, this is all very kind and all,but,I feel,there's a lot of people that want to help in the world and I sense sometimes,people in the INFP community,probably not all of them, but some, don't want to share that feeling of helping someone with other people,unless they are in charge and doing the helping, and you're on the receiving end. And when you say something, its like 'look we're doing all this for you, why do you have to argue with us and act so negative?',when in truth, I just want to share in the act of helping other people. Other than they that INFPs make great friends.


A terrible misconception! I would not feel worthless by not being able to help someone nor do I wish to covet all ‘helping abilities’ (granted, you did mention “not all [INPFs]”) . I am upset when someone I care about is upset because they are upset. I don’t like them hurting because I care about them and want them to be well and happy. _That’s _why I want to help them, not so that I can feel some sort of false worthiness. 

For the INFP’s who you may have been referring to, if you are correct in your assumption, I weep for them. It’s pointless to seek worth through fleeting things. 
@OrangeAppled and @Dabbling , thank you so much. Both of your understanding and defense helped me to calm down a bit.


OrangeAppled said:


> nezumify said:
> 
> 
> > I have an INFP as a best friend and a few ENFP friends. The only thing that irritates me about the relationship is the emotionally depressed ruts that xNFPs can get into. The ones that they can't seem to get out of, and even though I know a logical solution to it. Even though most people can see the cause and effect but no one can say anything because it's not like the xNFP doesn't already know, and saying something only seems to make them swirl deeper into unhappiness. I've tried, and it never works. Plus I get told that I'm too blunt, so now I start off important discussions with "I'm not trying to hurt your feelings, but I don't have a gentler way to say this...."
> ...





Fibonacci said:


> I don't 'dumb down' my problems in order to make others understand, I do it to test their reaction. And the reaction I usually get is the silent treatment. My friends have become too comfortable with me being the strong one and their shoulder to cry on.
> I somehow end up smiling and make them feel better by changing the subject :/


When we give the simplified situation/ emotion it’s not necessarily about making you understand. It’s about seeing what you’ll do with it. If I can’t trust you with $1 why would I trust you with $1,000 !? And having an “answer a dumb question with a dumb answer” mentality, keeping in mind that it was mentioned that apparently our ‘facades’ and “lies” are transparent, is essentially saying “This little stuff is worthless, I don’t what this. Give me the real deal!” *rips dollar and throws it away*

Can you see know how that’s failing the test? We want to be able to trust the people we’re going to confide in (whether _you _need to or not). Why would we open ourselves up to someone who would consider _anything _we give them dismissible, no matter how seemingly insignificant it may be. 

With that in mind…



OrangeAppled said:


> Bluntness often seems dismissive. It trivializes, reducing the weight of the problem, in effect, saying they shouldn't feel that way. That makes people feel silly & stupid, which exacerbates their bad feeling. Often, people do know the solution to their problem; but they need to heal emotionally first before they can get back up & move forward.


 @nezumify , Sure, healing and moving forward do work hand in hand, but sometimes people are so weak and beat to the ground that it requires a bit of aid to even get them up and taking the first steps. 

Finally @Dabbling , your input was worth far more than 4 cents. I appreciate every word and am so glad you’ve gotten to know the INFPs in your life with the understanding that you have  It always gives me hope to think someone out there understands.

To all who are _trying _(because accomplishments first take effort) to have healthy relationships with INFPs regardless of your personality types, I give this advice:

Don’t assume. Ask. Show that you want more from them, and they’ll do their best to be more considerate in that area. Trust me, we don’t want to be misunderstood and unknown. We just need to know that it’s okay to open up. 

I leave you with this analogy: We stand on the other side of a locked door, you can knock all you want but chances are, we’re not opening it. You have the keys. Use them.


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## Khiro (Nov 28, 2012)

INFP Mia said:


> When we give the simplified situation/ emotion it’s not about making you understand. It’s about seeing what you’ll do with it. If I can’t trust you with $1 why would I trust you with $1,000 !? And having an “answer a dumb question with a dumb answer” mentality, keeping in mind that it was mentioned that apparently our ‘facades’ and “lies” are transparent, is essentially saying “This little stuff is worthless, I don’t what this. Give me the real deal!” *rips dollar and throws it away*
> 
> Can you see know how that’s failing the test? We want to be able to trust the people we’re going to confide in (whether *you* need to or not). Why would we open ourselves up to someone who would consider *anything* we give them dismissible, no matter how seemingly insignificant it may be.


I don't think it's that people are having a difficult time understanding the notion so much as they find it frustrating. Assuming we're still talking about problem solving, I won't speak for anyone else, but if I'm trying to help someone I don't really appreciate being tested. To use another metaphor, if I were to put up a fence for someone and they only gave me a quarter of the required wood, expecting me to know without being told that if I did a good enough job they'd give me the rest at some unspecified later date, I'd feel like they were making me work unnecessarily hard to do them a favour. 

Hopefully that didn't come across as critical so much as sincere. As a side note, I'd be interested in an IXTP's input. I'm trying to draw a correlation between this, which I assume is an Fi trait, and how I might go about sharing a Ti idea with someone who might be able to provide perspective, but I'm too out-of-touch with my own Ti to really get to it myself.


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## Caged Within (Aug 9, 2013)

Did anyone else think of INFP cross-dressers when they saw the title, or have I been on the internet for too long?


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## Dabbling (Nov 2, 2013)

INFP Mia said:


> I don’t understand why my “friends” (I say it with hesitation because I’m no longer sure what I consider a friend) will convey all of their problems to me and I’ll console and comfort, shut up and just listen when need be, do all I can to be there for them, but they never (at least hardly ever) reciprocate.
> 
> The resulting question, I suppose would be “How can we do that for you if you never open up to begin with?”. It’s a good question and it’ll be a perpetual one if we don’t start to understand each other a little better.
> 
> ...


Hi @INFP Mia. Thanks for this. I'm sad that you are doing all the emotional receiving for your friends, so-called, and you don't have anyone to offload onto yourself. That's not friendship in my book, that's co-dependency, and I try really hard to avoid it in my own life...so much so that I just won't offload stuff onto my INFP friends if they don't reciprocate...I'd rather take the risk of it becoming shallow chitchat than the risk of me abusing them. That's how I see it. If you want friendship then you have got to confide in me right back, and you have to deal with my pain a bit and care about me. I'm strong on that with my INFPs and I remind them of that. Friendship is two way.

Ok, so let's suppose maybe I just offloaded all about my painful past, my angry present or my despairing future to you, @INFP Mia.
The most powerful thing you can do for me is make a deeper connection between you and me, I think, because I'm vulnerable to you now, I've shown you something of my pain and I want you to value that. I don't just want a hug and a patch up, well, sure, I do, but I want more than that long term, I want to feel special to you, and I think the only way I will feel that is if I feel you are reciprocating to me on the same level of vulnerability somehow. Maybe not the same day, but somehow. I came across Brene Brown's TED video on vulnerability eight months ago and it was an eye opener, and also it gave me the language to talk to my friends about opening up to each other more.

One heartache of mine is that someone I have known socially in my gang of local friends for ten years, a couple of months ago opened up to me that she didn't like social chit chat, she is intense, she is actually completely different from how I thought she was, she is lovely. I now think she is INFP. I never realised all that was going on all these years. I'm sad that we could have been better friends all this time but she made the choice, not me. Once I realised, I was putty in her hands...

In the people you know, perhaps there is someone who you think might be half decent in their values and how they treat people? And better if they have previously opened up to you about something. Could you perhaps get that person for a coffee and share a problem of your own? We may not all be INFPs but there are surely people who care out there. If you really couldn't imagine bursting into tears on any of them and expecting to get a hug back, then you maybe do want to look for new friends. There is nothing better than being 'human' together, in my opinion, and that is very different from being 'perfect' together.

I am learning a lot on this forum, and you might have things to say which would fit on my thread about INTJ and emotional maturity, @INFP Mia and others. The way I see it, INFP has introverted feelings which are strong because they are dominant, so the INFP is unlikely to be able to share them, because Fi is private. I battle myself to share my feelings, because I'm strongly introverted and private, but I have learnt to 'betray' my Fi (and it does feel like an internal betrayal) and then my extroverted thinking makes my feeling sound logical to my hearers. Basically for me Te is stronger so it defeats Fi when necessary.

It must be really difficult to do this if Fi is your dominant, because nothing else is stronger. But you DO need a safe place where you can vent without being judged. We all want that...*smiles* You might find writing it down easier, too. I email my friends sometimes and sometimes they email me, or text, even though we only live nearby, somehow writing is easier. PM me if you want.

Finally, and most importantly, I'm a Brit, so it's pennies not cents for me...and I hope this helps you.

*Big hugs*


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## Reticent Charm (Nov 17, 2013)

@Dabbling 

:laughing: I'm sorry for the mix up! 

*looks off to the side* pennies that aren't worth a cent... *googles uk penny to us penny conversion...pulls out calculator*

Ahh around 6 or 7 cents? pfff It was still worth more than that :kitteh:! 

Thank you for your kind words and advice ^_^


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## Reticent Charm (Nov 17, 2013)

Khiro said:


> I don't think it's that people are having a difficult time understanding the notion so much as they find it frustrating. Assuming we're still talking about problem solving, I won't speak for anyone else, but if I'm trying to help someone I don't really appreciate being tested. To use another metaphor, if I were to put up a fence for someone and they only gave me a quarter of the required wood, expecting me to know without being told that if I did a good enough job they'd give me the rest at some unspecified later date, I'd feel like they were making me work unnecessarily hard to do them a favour.
> 
> Hopefully that didn't come across as critical so much as sincere.


I can see how that would be frustrating, and I'm genuinely sorry for being that way. It's a defense mechanism, a rather faulty one I admit, but relatively effective in a sense. 

Going along with your analogy; When I gave quarter of the required wood, I wanted to see what they would do with it, to see (even just a little bit) what kind of person they are. Perhaps they'd start building and do their best with what was given, but they don't necessarily have to. They could call me out saying "Hey, I know this isn't all of it. I need you to give me the rest." among other possibilities. But the worst thing that they can do is to look at what I gave them, decide it's not enough, drop it to the side and walk away.


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## spiderfrommars (Feb 22, 2012)

Khiro said:


> As a side note, I'd be interested in an IXTP's input. I'm trying to draw a correlation between this, which I assume is an Fi trait, and how I might go about sharing a Ti idea with someone who might be able to provide perspective, but I'm too out-of-touch with my own Ti to really get to it myself.


This is an interesting question. I don't give people "decoy" ideas, like the way some INFPs have described giving "decoy" emotional issues. But I guess when I'm discussing a new topic, I watch the other person's reaction carefully, and if they show themselves to be not receptive, I shut off the conversation, assuming we'll never agree. If I tell someone I enjoy MBTI, and they explain to me that it "isn't scientific," why bother? Let's talk about something else. 

There's two things going on here. First, I don't think this person has anything useful to offer me, because they're repeating a perspective I considered and dismissed a long time ago, and I find no value in convincing them when I've got it already. But by the tone they're using, I know they need to be convinced, and won't be satisfied with a simple, "Yes, I know it isn't scientific." Explaining things I already know takes a lot of energy and translation, as I bet it does for the Fi users when it comes to those "solutions" that don't solve the whole problem. I actually do want to have my mind changed on my ideas. Every time I share them, I want somebody to convince me they're wrong. If I can tell the person won't/can't do that, I'm reluctant to try again. I go back to my respected "opponents."

The other thing is that I feel hurt. I feel: they think I'm an idiot, they think I've never thought of that, don't they know how long I've been thinking about this? And when somebody focuses on sources/proof instead of on whether my idea is internally sound, I feel like they don't value my (personal/subjective) ideas. Those are stupid/unfair feelings, but I have them. I feel shot down, so I try to exit the conversation and am less likely to share thoughts with them.


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## Brianna1 (Oct 22, 2013)

nezumify said:


> I have an INFP as a best friend and a few ENFP friends. The only thing that irritates me about the relationship is the emotionally depressed ruts that xNFPs can get into. The ones that they can't seem to get out of, and even though I know a logical solution to it. Even though most people can see the cause and effect but no one can say anything because it's not like the xNFP doesn't already know, and saying something only seems to make them swirl deeper into unhappiness. I've tried, and it never works. Plus I get told that I'm too blunt, so now I start off important discussions with "I'm not trying to hurt your feelings, but I don't have a gentler way to say this...."


That's exactly how I feel about NFPs. I want to provide a solution to their problems but sometimes they don't seem to want it.


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## Khiro (Nov 28, 2012)

spiderfrommars said:


> Explaining things I already know takes a lot of energy and translation, as I bet it does for the Fi users when it comes to those "solutions" that don't solve the whole problem.


This makes a lot of sense. It's something I imagine to be true for all introverts when it comes to their primary function. One of my closest friends is an INFP and when he's at his lowest the emotions he tries to communicate to me are so far removed from anything I can easily relate to that I have a very difficult time trying to make sense of what I'm being told. 

I recall reading that one of Jung's impressions of introverted irrationals was that we are the least inclined of all the types to attempt to share what we experience through our dominant function, so perhaps my frame of reference is somewhat different to those of a Ji-dom; however, it strikes me as incredibly rare that I find it necessary or valuable to directly convey any of what I believe to be Ni perceptions of the world. The energy required to translate something so entirely abstract into something other people might understand, let alone deem worthy of consideration, almost never seems worth the time. If that translation is as difficult for other introverts then I absolutely understand why a Ti or Fi dominant might only rarely feel it worthwhile to attempt to do so. If putting forward small chunks of the issue at a time is down to the effort involved in laying down the entirety of the concept, perhaps balanced against the trust required to do so, I can definitely relate to it more easily. 

Additionally, I understand the feeling of hurt that comes with what is essentially a rejection of something thorough and personal. In our cases I'd put it down to Fe. After all, _how dare we have ideas so incongenial? _



INFP Mia said:


> I can see how that would be frustrating, and I'm genuinely sorry for being that way. It's a defense mechanism, a rather faulty one I admit, but relatively effective in a sense.
> 
> Going along with your analogy; When I gave quarter of the required wood, I wanted to see what they would do with it, to see (even just a little bit) what kind of person they are. Perhaps they'd start building and do their best with what was given, but they don't necessarily have to. They could call me out saying "Hey, I know this isn't all of it. I need you to give me the rest." among other possibilities. But the worst thing that they can do is to look at what I gave them, decide it's not enough, drop it to the side and walk away.


I can understand that a little better. And it's certainly not something to be sorry for. As long as things like that are understood they're rarely harmful things, hence my interest. The only thing I can perhaps say here, more in case it ever proves useful than as a form of discussion as such, is that in my experience INFPs tend to consider disinterest far more insulting than other types do. So while a person who does drop the issue as though it's nothing may still very well be unworthy of further investment, it might, on the off chance you feel offended by it, be worth assuming they meant no insult.


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## Dabbling (Nov 2, 2013)

Khiro said:


> This makes a lot of sense. It's something I imagine to be true for all introverts when it comes to their primary function. One of my closest friends is an INFP and when he's at his lowest the emotions he tries to communicate to me are so far removed from anything I can easily relate to that I have a very difficult time trying to make sense of what I'm being told.
> 
> I recall reading that one of Jung's impressions of introverted irrationals was that we are the least inclined of all the types to attempt to share what we experience through our dominant function, so perhaps my frame of reference is somewhat different to those of a Ji-dom; however, it strikes me as incredibly rare that I find it necessary or valuable to directly convey any of what I believe to be Ni perceptions of the world. The energy required to translate something so entirely abstract into something other people might understand, let alone deem worthy of consideration, almost never seems worth the time. If that translation is as difficult for other introverts then I absolutely understand why a Ti or Fi dominant might only rarely feel it worthwhile to attempt to do so. If putting forward small chunks of the issue at a time is down to the effort involved in laying down the entirety of the concept, perhaps balanced against the trust required to do so, I can definitely relate to it more easily.
> 
> ...


This is brilliant, @Khiro Excellent post. Thank you very much. Very helpful.


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