# Why is this INTP trying to cut me off(?) from my friends?



## Nightingale999 (Jul 20, 2017)

I have an INTP contact who continually has been "assessing" if my friends really care for me or not. It's really aggravating and it turns me off big time. Our latest conversation about it went as follows:

INTP: "speaking of which, have you talked to him lately?" 
INFJ: "a bit" 
INTP: "when did you speak to him?"
INFJ: "uhm... Why should I tell you?" 
INTP: "OK let me rephrase. Have you spoken with him since a couple of weeks ago?" 
INFJ: "why do you ask?" 
INTP: "because I always wonder how much he cares for you." 
INFJ: "well, with all respect, it's none of your business " 
INTP: "well, it's your business, so what do you think?" 
INFJ: "if I share it with you, you make it your business. And you really really really want to know for some reason." 
INTP: "I've already told you the reason. When you spoke with him a couple of weeks ago, it was because you were distressed and reached out to him, I think."
INFJ: "well, you think. Maybe that's not true." 
INTP: "you can either correct me, or let me go on with my guesses." 
INFJ: "or you can stop guessing period oO" 
INTP: "that's my choice" 
INFJ: "well, your guesses are really prying, and you'll get annoyed if I don't answer you. so it's really rather rude to aggravate the issue if I clearly tell you this is a topic that's none of your business. So please, lets stop talking about this, ok? " 
INTP: "well, I'll just make my point then. assuming you reached out to him when he was distressed, and he responded -- fine. Given that he knows that you were distressed." 

But whether he later proactively came to you without you having to reach out first -- that will say whether he genuinely cares about you.
INFJ: "well, that's between me and him " 
INTP: "sure, and all I'm asking is: Does he care?" 
INFJ: "again, that's between me and him." 

The above conversation had happened a few times with variations of him saying he feels this or that person doesn't seem to care for me. I suppose I should've asked him why he cares if my friends care, but this has happened so often it it's starting to feel controlling and disrespectful, as if I don't have good judgement or have some type of wishful thinking that these people are my friends. This person had (maybe still has) romantic feelings for me, so all this can just stem from jealousy or over the top concern. But even if that's true, I don't feel it's right for him to dive his nose in my relationships, most of which I've known longer than him. 
Why does he do this and how can I tell him to stop?


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## mention it (May 3, 2014)

Nightingale999 said:


> This person had (maybe still has) romantic feelings for me


well I think that sums up the why, as for the how, just tell him to stop, and if he doesn't, then stop responding.

hope that helps


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## Nashvols (Jan 15, 2017)

This might get a better INTP response in the INTP forum.

Some questions:
-Is this the only friendship/relationship that [suspected] INTP hounds you about?
-Is the friendship that he is questioning in this particular case an ex-boyfriend?
-How do you know he had/has romantic feelings for you? 
-I notice that you referred to him as an INTP "contact," rather than "friend." What is the nature of your current relationship with each other?
-Do you ever complain/vent or otherwise reveal personal details of your friendships to this INTP?
-Related to the last, your conversation starts with "speaking of which"....meaning this friendship he was questioning was mentioned or referenced to previously in the conversation? Assuming that is the case, who brought it up?

I personally find it weird as an INTP to be questioning someone's associations on such a constant basis. I consider people's associations to be their own business. If I know them very well and are close, I won't be afraid to tell them I think their choice in a particular friend/friends is a bit questionable, but I'm not going to tell them what to do about it. If they are complaining about their friends, then I'll freely give advice....but I can't imagine interrogating someone over their relationships unless they are family and I think they are in a potentially harmful situation.

Without knowing more, I would say the best way to get the INTP to stop is to be direct and firm with him. Let him know that he's crossed a boundary, and if he continues to pry into your personal life, you will shut him out completely (assuming this is possible). Again, I don't know the nature of your relationship. He sounds controlling (even if he's not aware of that). Don't even entertain his inquiries.


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## Tamehagane (Sep 2, 2014)

This just reminds me what an impossible task it is to wrench information out of an INFJ.

To you it may seem very important to maintain your privacy in this matter, but probably to the INTP you're being needlessly stubborn.

You can be sure an INTP isn't planning to gossip about it, and probably won't even judge you for your answer. It's a piece in the puzzle that is another human being. 
Having information withheld can be maddening, even if the information isn't important. 
But I speak for myself.


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## clem (Jun 10, 2017)

He might be bored and messing with you just for fun, because he thinks INFJ's can be fun to play with that way.


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## Mephi (Jun 10, 2015)

Does it actually matter as to why? If he isn't respecting you and is constantly being controlling why do you still want to interact with him?


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## flowart (Oct 30, 2017)

the only reason I would ever do something like that is if I thought a my friend was in a friendship that is toxic for him or her. so I would try to help because I can see the outcome. it just shows he/she cares. but if you don't want his imput than do what the intj said.


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## Baracuda902 (Mar 26, 2017)

Nightingale999 said:


> how can I tell him to stop?


Tell him to stop prying into how you interact with your friends. It's your business, and your privacy is important to you. In my opinion, a valuable friend should understand that. If he doesn't respect your privacy, just block him.


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## BenjiMac (Aug 7, 2017)

There are two possibilities as I see it, the first may seem the most obvious but I urge you to consider the second because I have been the INTP you describe.

1 - Your INTP is the insecure, jealous type and see certain friends as a threat. This is unhealthy behaviour and not something you need put up with.

2 - Genuine concern. INTPs are known as 'the critics' for good reason. Other common elements are appreciation of autonomy in self and others, a quest for ultimate truth via understanding, a helicopter view of systems and events and a distaste for facades.

I've been the number 2 before when I first met my current partner. She had some old study friends, had spent time abroad at another uni and the had come back to finish her studies. Her friends had remained together the whole time and were, for want of a better term, 'the cool kids' which to be fair set me at odds with them from the outset.

My issue really developed from observing her efforts to be noticed by them and recapture some lost connection they may have once had and their half dismissal of her.

There were people around her who genuinely enjoyed her company but they were overlooked as she spent her time following these people round like a lost puppy while they all but ignored her, excluded her from plans and generally thought they were better than everyone.

She didn't see it, or didn't want to and that's understandable.

Ultimately she saw it for herself but the point is the concern in this case was not romantic jealousy but out of concern and care. She didn't need to play lap dog to these people, they were undeserving of her time - there are many other warm and genuine friends who value her much more and it troubled me to see someone I care about prostrate themselves in front of social demagogues.

So, while number 1 is a good guess. Consider number 2 and that maybe there's some more genuinely benign concern at play here.

The one good thing about an INTP (because we're the worst type imho) is that we are generally pretty good character judges and we don't defer to people who don't deserve it. If your INTP has an issue with some people in particular, it's at least worth a little more closely because there's a chance there's something to it.

I believe that of all the types, if you want someone to honestly appraise an idea, system or person - really pick holes in them - go to an INTP. We never have a better solution, but we can always identify what's wrong with yours.

But ignore us most of the rest of the time.


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## maust (Jul 14, 2014)

Tamehagane said:


> This just reminds me what an impossible task it is to wrench information out of an INFJ.
> 
> To you it may seem very important to maintain your privacy in this matter, but probably to the INTP you're being needlessly stubborn.
> 
> ...


It could be either this^ - I once had an INTP spend 24 hours trying to force me into choosing between utilitarianism and deontology, for no other reason than that he cared about my opinion and thought I was smart - or that he still likes you and either wants you to have good relationships OR wants to be the best relationship in your life and is jealous of your friends. It could be and/or/all.


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## nablur (Mar 9, 2017)

Nightingale999 said:


> I have an INTP contact who continually has been "assessing" if my friends really care for me or not. It's really aggravating and it turns me off big time. Our latest conversation about it went as follows:
> 
> INTP: "speaking of which, have you talked to him lately?"
> INFJ: "a bit"
> ...


as i read the conversation, i got frustrated at you for withholding information for no apparent reason other than privacy... however if this person is your friend, privacy shouldnt be a concern. 

you probably came here looking for INTP opinions and motivational clues... but really the question is - why are you being a weirdo with the 411?


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## nablur (Mar 9, 2017)

Nightingale999 said:


> Why does he do this and how can I tell him to stop?


PS. I recently defriended an INTP friend of 10+ years because he concocted some hypothesis i was interfering in his marriage and was demanding an apology for a situation which didnt actually exist. He loved his psychadelics.


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## ilovegoodcheese (Oct 28, 2017)

@Nightingale999 
I think you meet a bully; He is trying to isolate you to gain control over you. If the profile is correct, what you describe fits into an INTP exhaustively searching your emotional support network to cut it down effectively, making you only dependent in him. Plus, as INFJ, you are the perfect victim of bullies, probably he has chosen you for this, INTP are usually very aware.

as a side note: INTP are also typically bullied, and him can be one victim on the past, but this does not mean he is not bulling you now; Actually there are three big components of the bully mentality: 1) zero empathy, 2) positive view of violence and aggressiveness 3) (reactive) narcissism. Being exposed can rise easily all of them.

Conclusion: Kill it with fire (metaphorically speaking of course)

@mention it
@Bolderousness 
yes, telling to stop is the first step against bullies. but never works... A typical solution is to explain it to your environment (friends in this case) and act coordinately to render him ineffective. Plus it also have the side effect of protect -eventually- also your friends.

@clem
yes, being bored and "looking for action" is a typical excuse of the bullies to start it... sorry but it fits...

Anyway... cheers.


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## Not that guy (Feb 26, 2015)

ilovegoodcheese said:


> @Nightingale999
> I think you meet a bully; He is trying to isolate you to gain control over you. ...
> Conclusion: Kill it with fire (metaphorically speaking of course).


Agreed.

INFJs are wonderful people and can have a special relationship with INTPs. INFJ are also a magnet for bullies. Isolating the victim from their friends and family is classic abusive behavior. This also seems very un-INTP. INTPs generally have no desire to dominate or be dominated. Yes we will debate you silly about utilitarianism vs deontology if we think you are smart enough to keep up. Its not about winning its about tearing apart the mechanical watch and understanding how all the gears mesh together. As a younger INTP I at times did not appreciate that people may not want me to dismantle their classic Omega Seamaster chronograph. If an INTP drags you into a debate it is a complement. Outside the world of ideas we have to remind ourselves that it is OK to inquire about others personal life. In fact non-INTP people often like to talk about their feelings. It always seems intrusive to ask personal questions of friends. If they want to talk I'm here but it would not occur to me to go digging for information.

If this other person is an INTP his behavior seems suspicions to this INTP.

Though I did post this awhile back:


Not that guy said:


> ...
> 
> INFJs are good people who need other good people. The INFJ I knew seemed to get beat up by life over the years. INFJs have all the weirdness of an INTP but none of the indifference. They care too much and suffer for it. Unlike their ENFJ cousins the slights of life seem to accumulate in the INFJ.
> 
> There is perhaps a sense of protectiveness INTPs feel towards the even rarer INFJ. We can see they are going to get creamed by the world and want to help but don’t know how. My INTP armor does not fit, is too small, for the great altruistic INFJ soul. Dense INTP to INFJ "You give other people too much power over your life." ... .


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## ilovegoodcheese (Oct 28, 2017)

Not that guy said:


> Agreed.



Thank you!



Not that guy said:


> INFJs are wonderful people and can have a special relationship with INTPs. INFJ are also a magnet for bullies. Isolating the victim from their friends and family is classic abusive behavior. This also seems very un-INTP. INTPs generally have no desire to dominate or be dominated. Yes we will debate you silly about utilitarianism vs deontology if we think you are smart enough to keep up. Its not about winning its about tearing apart the mechanical watch and understanding how all the gears mesh together. As a younger INTP I at times did not appreciate that people may not want me to dismantle their classic Omega Seamaster chronograph. If an INTP drags you into a debate it is a complement. Outside the world of ideas we have to remind ourselves that it is OK to inquire about others personal life. In fact non-INTP people often like to talk about their feelings. It always seems intrusive to ask personal questions of friends. If they want to talk I'm here but it would not occur to me to go digging for information.
> 
> 
> If this other person is an INTP his behaviour seems suspicions to this INTP.


I actually also was thinking if INTP was a mistype... but looking to the dialogue of the OP, Ti is there -> the exhaustive assessment. The love/hate Ne is also there -> "you can either correct me, or let me go on with my guesses". There is also a lot of Fi, but maybe it is taking place of the shadow Fe. 

Otherwise Fi (as primary) and Ne (secondary) will make an INFP, and maybe the exhaustive assessment is not Ti information seeking, but Te searching fault reasoning. Makes sense ?




Not that guy said:


> Though I did post this awhile back:
> 
> There is perhaps a sense of protectiveness INTPs feel towards the even rarer INFJ. We can see they are going to get creamed by the world and want to help but don’t know how. My INTP armor does not fit, is too small, for the great altruistic INFJ soul. Dense INTP to INFJ "You give other people too much power over your life.



Between paternalistic behaviour and bullying there is an interesting association; Although they may seem opposite, they are not: the objectives pursued by the "aggressor" are very similar, namely, to deprivate the victim of decision power, remove alternatives to choice, and to make the victim ultimately full dependent from the aggressor will. Plus the reward is also similar, to feel an authoritarian role that feeds narcisistic demands. 

Anyway, both are highly toxic.


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## ponpiri (Apr 30, 2017)

Da fuck is he asking you all this shit for? If he 'wonders' how much a different male friend cares about you, then he should ask the dude instead of pestering you. I would be annoyed at a friend for being cagey like you were in that example, but when someone tells me to drop it because it's a personal matter, I do what I'm told. 

If you really want to trip him up, tell him that his nagging against your wishes make you question how much he cares.

My advice if ya still want it is to cut the crap with the emojis as well as answering his questions in that tit for tat way. Your reacting to his nagging keeps the pestering game going. He's probably cracking up, probably thinking it's funny.

Shut the conversation down in a definitive manner or end contact with him.


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## ewdenore (Nov 16, 2017)

This is really bizarre. It would never cross my mind to ask a friend anything about their interaction with any other person. If someone pressed like this I would be cutting them out of my life immediately.



Nightingale999 said:


> but this has happened so often it it's starting to feel controlling and disrespectful, as if I don't have good judgement or have some type of wishful thinking that these people are my friends.


It is profoundly disrespectful. It's not anyone's place to evaluate how you organize your life or mind. That is your business alone.

He's displaying a presumption that your internal processes and your personal life are his to mold. No one is entitled to information on either of these things.



Nightingale999 said:


> Why does he do this and how can I tell him to stop?


"If you bring this up again I'm removing you from my life." If he brings it up again, remove him from your life.


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## Salani (Nov 14, 2014)

My assessment falls somewhere in the middle of most people's above:

I suspect he thinks he is helping you by trying to show you what he sees (unless he is messing with you, but I suspect you would have had an inkling were he messing with you.)

He is in the compulsive grip of his weakest function, Fe. As an INFJ, I suspect you have had a similar grip experience with Se. It might have been in almost irresistible impulses to clean a mess, to tell someone to stop being loud, to perfectly finish a written product in school, etc. I agree with other people who say he doesn't understand why you talk to the person. That lack of understanding and familiarity is causing him to feel overwhelmed and panicked about your situation, on some level. It's probably worth forgiving him for invading your privacy (just like I hope people would forgive me if I mutter "rude"/ look angry after a person has bumped me at the store) while also gently reminding him that you will continue the relationship because it isn't taxing you.

The only way I've improved a similar experience with my SO and my brother (both INTP's) is to decatastrophize it for them in terms of their own involvement ("it's no problem; you'll never have to hang out with us together) and by showing a degree of understanding of the impulse while also stating that I am fine sustaining the relationship for X, Y, and Z reasons ("I get that you find his tone rude, but I honestly don't mind talking to him because I know where he's coming from since I sometimes snap at people when I've had a hard day.") Ending your response with a reminder that you're feeling totally fine and are interested in this relationship (you can also use INTP-friendly reasons like "because the relationship is interesting) can further assuage his concerns while letting you give your perspective.


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## NiceGuyDeclan (Dec 4, 2017)

A few possibilities jump to mind, most of which have already been mentioned.

1) He knows it bothers you and enjoys trolling you. He doesn't realized he's crossed the line from being a little annoying to being a major pain in the ass.

2) He's insecure and jealous and trying to get you to feel like he cares more about you than other people.

3) He's genuinely concerned that this other person is going to hurt you.

4) There's some kind of puzzle he's trying to figure out, and this information helps him solve it. It could be something specific to you (he's trying to figure out what makes you tick) or he could be working on a theory of how friendship works, or interpersonal relationships in general, and this information could potentially help him complete his theory.

I would actually lean towards option 4. If he was romantically interested in you, he has probably invested a decent amount of time figuring out what kind of person you are and what motivates you. Chances are, most things you do don't surprise him because he has a working model of who you are as a person, and can use that to predict what actions you'll take. It's possible that something about your behavior towards this other person goes against what he would predict for you, and he needs to figure out why, so he can correct his theory and know you better.


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## Accolade (Jan 5, 2018)

@Nightingale999 ...

Very simple ... "Stop" or "Go Away".


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## 1whoseeswithoutbeingseen (May 2, 2017)

He has inarguably a crush on you.
The way to tell him stop that will make him (not you, I presume) feel the least bad is, well, to relay to him what you wrote in the opening post here, without modifications.

Unlike all other types, INTPs and INFPs (and ISFPs, I guess) thrive on candid communication. Telling him to give it a quit indirectly will: 

a) Take him longer to understand
b) Keep him hoping maybe he's misunderstanding, and you don't mean what you seem to meant, for a long time
c) Stress him more, overall.



nablur said:


> as i read the conversation, i got frustrated at you for withholding information for no apparent reason other than privacy... however if this person is your friend, privacy shouldnt be a concern.
> 
> you probably came here looking for INTP opinions and motivational clues... but really the question is - why are you being a weirdo with the 411?


Lol, what are you, new to *Fe*/*Te* land?
Don't make me add anything. I have recently... come out of a relationship with a primary-*Fe* type.

Just... like there's political correctness, and for many it is truth, there's social (and relational) correctness, and to many that is what's "right", and, yes, also true.


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## 1whoseeswithoutbeingseen (May 2, 2017)

*to be removed*


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## Fennel (Jan 11, 2017)

BenjiMac said:


> There are two possibilities as I see it, the first may seem the most obvious but I urge you to consider the second because I have been the INTP you describe.
> 
> 1 - Your INTP is the insecure, jealous type and see certain friends as a threat. This is unhealthy behaviour and not something you need put up with.
> 
> ...


THIS. I love this. Thank you for this. 
And your signature! Yes! I wholeheartedly agree (just don't fuck me, I'm taken). Finally, someone found the most direct way of expressing how much I long for that connection.

INFJ-INTP friendship is worth exploring. We might find each other's behavior annoying, but I take it as a challenge.


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## Sherrie92 (Mar 19, 2021)

You've got him all wrong. The ONLY reason an INTP would start a social confrontation (and your conversation with him definitely counts as one) is if he was genuinely worried for you. INTPs HATE confrontation, but they will go ahead with it if they think they can stop someone they care about from getting hurt. 

INTPs are great at reading other people's emotions. We're just terrible at knowing what to do in response. 

He would never chase some who's obviously not interested in him (social confrontation). 

He would never troll someone (social confrontation), unless he hated them (in which case he would be in his ISFP demon mode, simply waiting for an excuse to start a legit, illogical, unreasonable conflict and enjoy it. That's not what he's doing here.) 

He would never try to prove to you that he's better than some other guy by talking badly about the other guy. If he's better, he'll prove it himself BY being better. If you can't see he's better (IF he is), then he'll just assume that the relationship isn't meant to be. He won't seriously consider you two to be a possibility as a future couple unless you've already started dating. And if you've dated and broken up... to him that would be the final word. If he were sad about it, you'd never see him again. If he never took the relationship seriously, you could be friends after breaking up. 

If I'm guessing right, you've come to him in the past to vent your worries? That would be giving him mixed messages. The only reason an INTP would tell someone about their own problems would be to get advice, not to vent. So he assumes you want advice. Then he looks into your problem seriously and either A) sees something suspicious about your friend or B) feels like you wouldn't come to him if there wasn't a problem, so he needs more information. "Is the problem gone now, and everything is resolved? Did my friend get tricked? Is she contributing more to the relationship than she's getting back?" 

Frankly, if you've vented to him (given information freely), and now you're holding back, that's kind of a d*** move to pull on an intp. It's like you called for help, just to kick him in the crotch when he came to help you. 

If this is the case, just tell him it's a misunderstanding. You were only venting (probably exaggerating and/or only talking about bad points), not looking for solutions, and he doesn't need to worry. Tell him the good things about your friend. 

If you haven't vented to him, that's bad news. It means he probably picked some gossip up from someone else. If it's not from someone related to the situation then he wouldn't take it seriously or bring it up. For him to be willing to confront you, and asking you questions, means the possibility of it being true is higher than 50%. (Or perhaps this friend said something crass or derogatory about you in front of him. In which case it's not about stuff being true, it's about how this friend thinks of you and treats you). 

I don't want you to start jumping to conclusions about any of your friends INTP or otherwise, and I can see that your INTP friend doesn't want that either, otherwise he wouldn't be asking questions, he'd be telling you outright why you shouldn't be friends with this other person. He would tell you the truth, even at the cost of your friendship with himself. 

Perhaps you think I'm exaggerating, but that very thing has happened between me and my sister. During her first divorce, my advice became too much for her. We had a falling out, and I don't talk to her much anymore. My mom keeps me updated, but frankly her life is a depressing soap opera. 

One thing I told her was that she ought to slow down and not date so soon (also that she should pick a job OR school, not both... she didn't take that advice either) (actually the divorce was submitted at that time, but not finalized). She ended up pregnant (from another guy ) BEFORE her first marriage divorce was finalized. Her divorce went through and she married the new guy,(same personality type as her (high relatability, low compatibility (they can't get what they emotionally need from each other)) but now they are separated with divorce as an option. Did I mention he's been married twice before? I still don't really talk to my sister anymore. Frankly, I've got nothing to say. 

Basically, this INTP would be very happy to find out he's wrong about your friend, and that the world is full of unicorns and rainbow farts, but if you don't tell him anything, that's just another red flag. "What's so bad that she doesn't want to tell me? Is he doing bad things to her?" 

Privacy is not a good excuse to an INTP, not if you consider him a friend. If your INTP friend didn't care for you, he'd happily butt out of your business, and watch you train wreck while he eats popcorn and M&Ms on the sidelines. That's how he treats strangers and aquantances. He would never start a social confrontation conversation for someone he doesn't care about. 

If he didn't respect and trust you, he'd go behind you back and confront your friend directly. 

When INTPs trust someone, they trust their intentions. They don't trust anyone to be infallible, not even themselves. 

If you don't trust HIM and HIS intentions, then don't tell him anything. But if he ever finds out you don't trust him - that you think he's trash who would walk all over someone's feeling for fun - he'll be so insulted you'll be lucky to ever see him again.


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## Allostasis (Feb 2, 2021)

@Sherrie92 
FYI, you wrote a response to a post from *4 years* ago.


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## Allostasis (Feb 2, 2021)

> The ONLY reason an INTP would start a social confrontation (and your conversation with him definitely counts as one) is if he was genuinely worried for you. INTPs HATE confrontation, but they will go ahead with it if they think they can stop someone they care about from getting hurt.
> He would never chase some who's obviously not interested in him (social confrontation).
> He would never ... etc


And that's all BS, btw.
it is extremely naive of you to idealize them like that. as if INTPs are some sort of pure cinnamon rolls from heaven that only act in the best interests of others.
I suppose to you their worst sins are betraying friends in d&d games and posting memes in work chat.


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## Not that guy (Feb 26, 2015)

Allostasis said:


> And that's all BS, btw.
> ... . as if INTPs are some sort of pure cinnamon rolls from heaven that only act in the best interests of others.
> ...


Well not the sickly sweet sticky cinnamon rolls. We INTPs are more of the dry dusted cinnamon roll variety . And not from heaven but from the Hawthorne St. bakery in PDX, good city for intuitives. Portland is better than heaven, fewer republicans than a Minneapolis airport mens room and better beer.


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## Allostasis (Feb 2, 2021)

Not that guy said:


> Well not the sickly sweet sticky cinnamon rolls. We INTPs are more of the dry dusted cinnamon roll variety . And not from heaven but from the Hawthorne St. bakery in PDX, good city for intuitives. Portland is better than heaven, fewer republicans than a Minneapolis airport mens room and better beer.


That is still same idealization.


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