# Spotting ASPD/Sociopaths/Psychopaths



## He's a Superhero! (May 1, 2013)

My question is: How do you visually spot ASPD(Anti-social Personality Disorder) spectrum/Sociopaths and Psychopaths? What answers to questions do they typically give? What questions could reveal ASPD?

I'm interested in hearing from 1) people who actually know someone with this condition very well, 2) from psychologists/psychiatrists who studied up on the subject, and 3) from ASPD Sociopaths and Psychopaths who know that they have this condition.

I'm also interested in visual ways of spotting Narcissistic Disorder or Megalomania (altho these are usually pretty easy to spot anyway) in case someone has extra insight into this condition.


- This thread is not intended on villainize any mental condition. Its purpose if for better understanding and better communication, as well as more awareness. I encourage everyone posting to remain respectful to eachother no matter what mental conditions anyone has.


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## SigmaEffectual (Dec 5, 2014)

There is no visual indication at face value, however if you engaged with them, a mixture of body language, vernacular, and attitude could indicate some of that.

But ultimately, even then, you could not tell. People are all different, different parts of countries have different ways of communicating, and different countries have different cultural values. People are all different, and if someone is just having a bad day, you would never know. If someone isn't a big "talker", if they are avoidant, if they are nervous, if they feel some kind of anxiety, if they are depressed, whatever the case may be, you cannot assume that someone is suffering from a mental condition, nor can you legally diagnose them.


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## conscius (Apr 20, 2010)

He's a Superhero! said:


> My question is: How do you visually spot ASPD(Anti-social Personality Disorder) spectrum/Sociopaths and Psychopaths?


It's extremely easy cause they usually wear a shirt like this:










Also have a psychopathy look, like this guy, and walk around with a chainsaw.


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## He's a Superhero! (May 1, 2013)

I should probably have mentioned that body language and micro expressions are visual things to read, but I guess I thought that was obvious..


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## conscius (Apr 20, 2010)

Joking aside, this is something I'm also very interested in. Some of them are extremely skilled at self presentation and unless you live with them and see them in all situations, especially ones they're unprepared for, and get to hear things from their friends and family, it would be quite difficult to learn about them. Some of them are pretty smart, they're up there as CEOs, as politicians, because they learn how to behave "normally" and so are experts at hiding their true selves and blending in.


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## SigmaEffectual (Dec 5, 2014)

He's a Superhero! said:


> I should probably have mentioned that body language and micro expressions are visual things to read, but I guess I thought that was obvious..


Well, the first thing we need to define is the definition of psychopath, sociopath, and anti-social.
Psycho comes from latin, and means "of, or relating to the mind, mental activities." -Pathos is a greek root meaning "The suffering to" coming from the word Paskhein
Psychopath can be translated to: The suffering of the mental activities.
Socio- means "Denoting social or society"
Sociopath can be translated to: The suffering from denoting socially or in society.
Social means "of or relating to society or its organization." and Anti- means "opposed to, or against"
Anti-social can mean: Opposed to society and it's organization.

Starting with Sociopath and Anti-social, both of these can mean that the individual believes strongly in a revolution and revolt against the society values. So, in today's day and age, that can be anyone who speaks out about capitalism, or anyone who is anarchistic. If the person has strong anti-political views, they can ultimately be viewed as a sociopath or anti-social.

Then there's psychopaths, which could be viewed as "anyone who does not understand the mental activities of others" those people who feel "different". Ultimately, for the sake of discussion, this thread is "psychopathic", because it is pushing a general statement to try to spot those who are "suffering from, socio or psycho". It is showing that you do not fully understand the meanings and are viewing them as society would view them, but cannot view them the way society would not view them. By definition, I am a sociopath, because I have trouble with society's Egocentrism, but on the same level, I can view society as psychopathic because they do not see my view. Capeche?


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## Du Toit (Mar 2, 2014)

You do not.
The only way to reduce your likability of getting hit is by knowing yourself, your values, and asserting your boundaries.


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## He's a Superhero! (May 1, 2013)

conscius said:


> Joking aside, this is something I'm also very interested in. Some of them are extremely skilled at self presentation and unless you live with them and see them in all situations, especially ones they're unprepared for, and get to hear things from their friends and family, it would be quite difficult to learn about them. Some of them are pretty smart, they're up there as CEOs, as politicians, because they learn how to behave "normally" and so are experts at hiding their true selves and blending in.


Indeed. Still, some individuals can spot them within minutes, if not seconds of being in their company. One of these people I have spoken to is in the ASPD spectrum (pretty low on the scale tho, but it was properly diagnosed), and he mentioned it being in their behaviour, but he also mentioned the eyes...something about the eyes! This may point to micro expressions and body language.

Another thing tho, they use a questionnaire to properly diagnose someone with ASPD, so certain questions must be particularly effective at working this out. Maybe a set of a few question would be enough? I would love to know more about this questionnaire, and which questions are most important.


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## He's a Superhero! (May 1, 2013)

Laf said:


> You do not.
> The only way to reduce your likability of getting hit is by knowing yourself, your values, and asserting your boundaries.


Just becomes someone is ASPD doesn't mean they want to "hit".


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## He's a Superhero! (May 1, 2013)

SigmaEffectual said:


> Well, the first thing we need to define is the definition of psychopath, sociopath, and anti-social.
> Psycho comes from latin, and means "of, or relating to the mind, mental activities." -Pathos is a greek root meaning "The suffering to" coming from the word Paskhein
> Psychopath can be translated to: The suffering of the mental activities.
> Socio- means "Denoting social or society"
> ...


That's a very broad view of the terminology. Terminology aside however, there is a specific spectrum disorder that is very real, and that is what this thread is discussing.


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## Du Toit (Mar 2, 2014)

He's a Superhero! said:


> Just becomes someone is ASPD doesn't mean they want to "hit".


-_-
That isn't what I meant by ''hit''. I was talking about hit, as being the target.


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## SigmaEffectual (Dec 5, 2014)

He's a Superhero! said:


> That's a very broad view of the terminology. Terminology aside however, there is a specific spectrum disorder that is very real, and that is what this thread is discussing.


The "terminology" is there because that's what it is. 1 in 25 people are sociopaths, 1 in 200 are psychopaths. If you work in a busy place that you see ~2000 people a day, you could see everywhere from 0-90 sociopaths, and 0-10 psychopaths everyday. So what are you talking about? Low functioning individuals?

Chances are you won't see them unless you work in the Government, Wall Street, or on any kind of executive board, or if you're in jail.

High functioning psychopaths and sociopaths pass by you everyday, and you won't know they are what they are unless you personally know them, because they are high functioning and appear to have it all together. 

Or are you talking about something else? It helps if you clarify your intended discussions, and the specifics in the original post so that we do not have confusion.


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## rhoynarqueen (Dec 12, 2014)

I have NPD. I have told people about this diagnosis, and they often don't believe me, because I use my interest in people that comes from my interest in psychology to feign empathy generally well. 

Like, I literally have had people say, "You can't be a narc, you're too nice/too good a listener!" 

People are stupid and hilarious like that.


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## He's a Superhero! (May 1, 2013)

rhoynarqueen said:


> I have NPD. I have told people about this diagnosis, and they often don't believe me, because I use my interest in people that comes from my interest in psychology to feign empathy generally well.
> 
> Like, I literally have had people say, "You can't be a narc, you're too nice/too good a listener!"
> 
> People are stupid and hilarious like that.


I'm glad to have someone with NPD comment on this...Do you find it easy to spot others with your condition? Do you spot ASPD easily? Do you feel they are in some way similar? And any other comments you may have.

Just knowing that you have a condition is the first step towards progression. Do you see a therapist of any kind about NPD?


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## rhoynarqueen (Dec 12, 2014)

He's a Superhero! said:


> I'm glad to have someone with NPD comment on this...Do you find it easy to spot others with your condition? Do you spot ASPD easily? Do you feel they are in some way similar? And any other comments you may have.
> 
> Just knowing that you have a condition is the first step towards progression. Do you see a therapist of any kind about NPD?


I haven't met many others with the condition IRL. Most people I've met with PD's other than Boderline are from the internet. Hence, they tend to be more open about it. 

I see a therapist, but we usually talk about school and work. Sometimes the weird dreams that I have. I have been through DBT a few times. 

ASPD and NPD are similar, but ASPD generally involves more law-breaking behavior, while NPD is more Machiavellian and subtly manipulating, generally within the confines of the law. People with NPD care about the social implications of their actions, and how their actions will affect their social standing. ASPD? They don't give a shit. That's the general difference.


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## He's a Superhero! (May 1, 2013)

rhoynarqueen said:


> I haven't met many others with the condition IRL. Most people I've met with PD's other than Boderline are from the internet. Hence, they tend to be more open about it.
> 
> I see a therapist, but we usually talk about school and work. Sometimes the weird dreams that I have. I have been through DBT a few times.
> 
> ASPD and NPD are similar, but ASPD generally involves more law-breaking behavior, while NPD is more Machiavellian and subtly manipulating, generally within the confines of the law. People with NPD care about the social implications of their actions, and how their actions will affect their social standing. ASPD? They don't give a shit. That's the general difference.



Do you know ways in progressing out of NPD, or at least to control it? And are there things that others should do when they are in a relationship with someone with NPD (relationship of any kind)?


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## rhoynarqueen (Dec 12, 2014)

He's a Superhero! said:


> Do you know ways in progressing out of NPD, or at least to control it? And are there things that others should do when they are in a relationship with someone with NPD (relationship of any kind)?


I honestly think that the diagnosis is kind of pointless, but the best motivator for me to not mess things up is my own care for my social standing. I can't live a good life in prison. That would be dull. And if I do something socially unacceptable, then people will turn on me, so I have to either spin it in my favor, or do things covertly.


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## He's a Superhero! (May 1, 2013)

rhoynarqueen said:


> I honestly think that the diagnosis is kind of pointless, but the best motivator for me to not mess things up is my own care for my social standing. I can't live a good life in prison. That would be dull. And if I do something socially unacceptable, then people will turn on me, so I have to either spin it in my favor, or do things covertly.


But if you didn't know that you have it I think it would be more difficult to be aware of things you may be doing, or that you can get some help with progressing.
Also your friends and family knowing can help them to know what to expect, so when it happens it's not such a big deal for them...at least in theory.


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## Grandmaster Yoda (Jan 18, 2014)

Make people fill out a questionairre. I'm beginning to forget what each of these terms mean but I'm not actually going to back and look them up because I actually started typing. But basically if someone is a psychopath, they will lack impulse control. The shallow emotions may be a facade that can confuse you, but I don't think there's a facade behind being bold and not thinking through consequences of actions. I guess it would be somewhat difficult, especially since people (such as my wonderful family) decide to attribute behavior that they view as absurd or delusional to some form of schizophrenia, bipolar disorder or sociopathy.


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## He's a Superhero! (May 1, 2013)

Grandmaster Yoda said:


> Make people fill out a questionairre. I'm beginning to forget what each of these terms mean but I'm not actually going to back and look them up because I actually started typing. But basically if someone is a psychopath, they will lack impulse control. The shallow emotions may be a facade that can confuse you, but I don't think there's a facade behind being bold and not thinking through consequences of actions. I guess it would be somewhat difficult, especially since people (such as my wonderful family) decide to attribute behavior that they view as absurd or delusional to some form of schizophrenia, bipolar disorder or sociopathy.


It may be a bit difficult to get everyone you are in some form of relationship with to fill out a questionnaire - and that is provided you get the right questionaire that is accurate. I'm hoping to find just a few questions that would be effective, tho maybe not 100% correct, at least you could get pointed into the right direction. Maybe there are questions that triangulate to the right answer even. I don't know if this is possible, but I think it is worth looking into.


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## conscius (Apr 20, 2010)

He's a Superhero! said:


> Indeed. Still, some individuals can spot them within minutes, if not seconds of being in their company. One of these people I have spoken to is in the ASPD spectrum (pretty low on the scale tho, but it was properly diagnosed), and he mentioned it being in their behaviour, but he also mentioned the eyes...something about the eyes! This may point to micro expressions and body language.
> 
> Another thing tho, they use a questionnaire to properly diagnose someone with ASPD, so certain questions must be particularly effective at working this out. Maybe a set of a few question would be enough? I would love to know more about this questionnaire, and which questions are most important.


Oh that is so awesome that this person can tell and so quickly! At first I was gonna say if you actually trust this person's claim that he can spot psychopaths, given his own diagnosis, but realized you said he's low in the spectrum. But I would love to learn the right questions to ask or right micro-expressions to look for, if that's any way to be able to make a good guess (more than 50/50) about somebody.


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## He's a Superhero! (May 1, 2013)

conscius said:


> Oh that is so awesome that this person can tell and so quickly! At first I was gonna say if you actually trust this person's claim that he can spot psychopaths, given his own diagnosis, but realized you said he's low in the spectrum. But I would love to learn the right questions to ask or right micro-expressions to look for, if that's any way to be able to make a good guess (more than 50/50) about somebody.


Or at least to know whether they are on the ASPD spectrum, or NPD as well if possible. Heck, I'd be happy if I had a question that had only a 50/50 result...better than nothing I suppose. I would have to keep in mind that it's not very accurate tho..

As for that person with ASPD, the interesting thing was that he seems to spot them regularly within certain jobs, while not so much other than that - like a doctor he spotted very quickly had the same condition. I guess he sees in others something that he sees in himself, and maybe it is easier for people with ASPD to pick eachother out, but if they can do it then surely we can too with the right know-how.


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## BluIon (Nov 10, 2014)

He's a Superhero! said:


> Indeed. Still, some individuals can spot them within minutes, if not seconds of being in their company. One of these people I have spoken to is in the ASPD spectrum (pretty low on the scale tho, but it was properly diagnosed), and he mentioned it being in their behaviour, but he also mentioned the eyes...something about the eyes! This may point to micro expressions and body language.
> 
> Another thing tho, they use a questionnaire to properly diagnose someone with ASPD, so certain questions must be particularly effective at working this out. Maybe a set of a few question would be enough? I would love to know more about this questionnaire, and which questions are most important.


Ditto, it's deffinitly in the eyes and there is a practiced warmth that doesn't resonate all the way through.sorta just goes flat after they think they have pulled it off. Completely cold but w a (usually) pretty put together, appearance based, presentation. In real moments they can get distracted enough to have a mask slip. For me it reads as rabies and my response is to solve the problem the most efficient and complete way possible.
Usually severing the part that's affected.
Does this make me a psychopath?


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## He's a Superhero! (May 1, 2013)

BluIon said:


> Ditto, it's deffinitly in the eyes and there is a practiced warmth that doesn't resonate all the way through.sorta just goes flat after they think they have pulled it off. Completely cold but w a (usually) pretty put together, appearance based, presentation. In real moments they can get distracted enough to have a mask slip. For me it reads as rabies and my response is to solve the problem the most efficient and complete way possible.
> Usually *severing the part that's affected.*
> Does this make me a psychopath?


Eh...I don't think I understand that part about "severing the part that's affected"...can you explain what you mean by that?


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## He's a Superhero! (May 1, 2013)

Ok, I believe I may have spotted another ASPD person. An older man seems to have that lack of emotions in his eyes, and seems to be "cold" emotionally with others, tho surrounds himself in people, and seems to take charge a fair amount...will investigate this further - really glad to have found one if this is the case! I probably won't directly ask them at this point, and I don't want to come off as rude or anything, so for now I'll just observe and work it out from there.


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## BluIon (Nov 10, 2014)

He's a Superhero! said:


> Eh...I don't think I understand that part about "severing the part that's affected"...can you explain what you mean by that?


I meant exactly what I said but I guess I could be more specific  
Or try :/ . . . I'm having trouble thinking of a simpler way of saying it w out it losing all it's depth of meaning. 

Basically whatever is going to stop them from hurting others.
whatever would stop it completely and w out worry of regression.
Reasoning being:
because of the nature of the thing being so direct in the way it effects innocent bystanders who most times have no way to protect themselves against it.
Because of the lack of conscience or willingness to ignore ones conscience so completely however small of one there is.

It sounds like a form of societal rabies an opportunistic parasitic fungie at least but a timebomb searching for a host at most. Idk if any of this is helping you understand my question but 
The things that seem the most successful, since all of my social experimentation has concluded the same way, is to sever the dangerous and harmful effected areas from the rest of the whole person who is effected. Or to sever the parts effecting others to their detriment. 
Up and to killing those who are found wreaking havoc in another's life while being effected by their lack of safeguards against doing others harm or even seeing anyone but themselves as a life with value. 
Does that sound like I'm effected to you?
I feel it is the most effective method and tho I know it could and most likely will vastly effect the subjects quality of life or end it completely that actually makes me feel nothing negative. I feel it like I would if a wolf had been picking off my family. I'd feel good the threat was gone. Victorious even, if it was me who ended the threat.


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## He's a Superhero! (May 1, 2013)

BluIon said:


> I meant exactly what I said but I guess I could be more specific
> Or try :/ . . . I'm having trouble thinking of a simpler way of saying it w out it losing all it's depth of meaning.
> 
> Basically whatever is going to stop them from hurting others.
> ...


What you're saying worries me. Are you joking by the way?


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## Caged Within (Aug 9, 2013)

If a person goes about how he or she is a good person, chances are that he or she isn't a good person.


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## BluIon (Nov 10, 2014)

He's a Superhero! said:


> What you're saying worries me. Are you joking by the way?


Why are you worried? and no. 

It would help if you told me what you think I just said as well. 

Night, I'll check back in the morning.


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## VinnieBob (Mar 24, 2014)

He's a Superhero! said:


> My question is: How do you visually spot ASPD(Anti-social Personality Disorder) spectrum/Sociopaths and Psychopaths?
> they're easy to spot
> they usually wear police uniforms, judge's robes and hold political office
> seriously I have known 2 but you cannot ''spot them'' the ones I have known show less emotion then a INTJ, are delusional
> paranoid, tell fantastic story's also are quiet aggressive and once you talk to one they grab onto you like a smack addict latch's on a needle


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## INTJellectual (Oct 22, 2011)

> How do you





> visually spot ASPD(Anti-social Personality Disorder) spectrum/Sociopaths and Psychopaths?



One very obvious thing is that they are very aggressive and have numerous law-breaking actions that violate the rights of others.
They may be excellent when it comes to business (they are the one who operate) but they won't last when it comes to jobs. Occupational functioning is impaired when it comes to working for others. They typically have problems relating to other people. They are maladjusted and they seem to lack or have underdeveloped conscience. Although this disorder looks cool and villainous to others, people who have this disorders suffers tremendously inside and they are always paranoid that someone is after (and they are usually right).




> What answers to questions do they typically give?


Not sure about this one but there's a high probability of deceit.



> What questions could reveal ASPD?


Questions as in questionnaire or test for ASPD?

I think it should answer these criteria:
-it has an early onset in childhood and adolescence
-child is always being called to the guidance counselor of his school
-intelligence is of normal range (the test should indicated that a child has no mental retardation)
-ADHD common (as a child)
-at least 5 years of being antisocial without intermittent period of having a normal behavior


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## heaveninawildflower (Feb 5, 2012)

Regina said:


> One very obvious thing is that they are very aggressive and have numerous law-breaking actions that violate the rights of others.


I doubt you would see that behavior right away. They get what they want from others by using superficial charm and by being deceitful.


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## heaveninawildflower (Feb 5, 2012)

He's a Superhero! said:


> Ok, I believe I may have spotted another ASPD person. An older man seems to have that lack of emotions in his eyes, and seems to be "cold" emotionally with others, tho surrounds himself in people, and seems to take charge a fair amount...will investigate this further - really glad to have found one if this is the case! I probably won't directly ask them at this point, and I don't want to come off as rude or anything, so for now I'll just observe and work it out from there.


You should leave that up to the professionals...spotting someone with aspd.


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## He's a Superhero! (May 1, 2013)

indigo moon said:


> You should leave that up to the professionals...spotting someone with aspd.


That's all well and good to say, but spotting ASPD would have made life entirely different for three women that I know, and one man. Also, I would have personally benefited from this if I could have done it years ago.

The thing is tho, I not only want to spot them, but I want to understand them and even know how to deal with them in a good way.


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## heaveninawildflower (Feb 5, 2012)

He's a Superhero! said:


> That's all well and good to say, but spotting ASPD would have made life entirely different for three women that I know, and one man. Also, I would have personally benefited from this if I could have done it years ago.
> 
> The thing is tho, I not only want to spot them, but I want to understand them and even know how to deal with them in a good way.


I understand wanting to be aware of the warning signs of someone who may have this disorder. I was married (and divorced) to someone who was diagnosed with aspd. But to assume, after a few observations, that someone may have this disorder just seems wrong to do, especially if this is someone you do not interact with and you do not know anything about them. jmo


I am curious...why do you feel so compelled to want to understand them? I am sure others have tried to do that.


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## He's a Superhero! (May 1, 2013)

indigo moon said:


> I understand wanting to be aware of the warning signs of someone who may have this disorder. I was married (and divorced) to someone who was diagnosed with aspd. But to assume, after a few observations, that someone may have this disorder just seems wrong to do, especially if this is someone you do not interact with and you do not know anything about them. jmo
> 
> 
> I am curious...why do you feel so compelled to want to understand them? I am sure others have tried to do that.



I want to understand them just like I want to understand people in the autistic spectrum. These people live among us and we are bound to encounter them sooner or later, if not all the time - therefore it would be wise to learn about them. Then there is also the stigmas...I don't want to be prejudice towards them either, as they are people too. It's not their fault they are different, and their situation does effect their relationships with others. Also, from what I have learnt, ASPD is essentially the very opposite of what I am, so learning to understand them may benefit me too...tho I couldn't say how at this point. I just think that learning our opposites helps us gain insight that we would never normally have.


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## Roman Empire (Oct 22, 2014)

If you can spot a psychopath, he is probably not doing it right LOL. Unless it is a bro on steroids with tattoos in his face, then it is pretty inviting to think he might be a psychopath.


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## Fern (Sep 2, 2012)

In my experience, their eyes tend to be scary... But that's it.


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## BluIon (Nov 10, 2014)

You basically have to investigate them w out them knowing. People like to say it's hard but it's really not if your grounded enough. Key is they cannot know. 

There's always a door for those who look hard enough. Different people will show you different doors differently. 

I don't kick into gear just cause I want to learn about a random tho. Its almost always better to just watch out for the signs every time you interact. You'd be surprised how often people "handle" each Other. Its the ones who don't that nobody seems to like. 
"Either truth or happiness but never both" I think the quote goes. 
On some level humans want to be lied to and outright demand it in some cases. 
These people perceive that undercurrent of social interaction very well and then exploit it as far as they can w out blowing cover. 
The trick is to always be watching and learning how to interpret what you see is a hard won skill w these lot. I wouldn't recommend going out looking for trouble. But if you do need to or feel the need to just realize the usual open way won't get you anything but hurt or lies. There are no shortcuts and you have to always be on guard w out seeming so.

Its all pretty exhausting work if done right.


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## He's a Superhero! (May 1, 2013)

apa said:


> If you can spot a psychopath, he is probably not doing it right LOL. Unless it is a bro on steroids with tattoos in his face, then it is pretty inviting to think he might be a psychopath.


Actually scientifically speaking Psychopaths are far easier to spot than Sociopaths - Sociopaths are better at blending in and faking it for longer periods of time.



Fern said:


> In my experience, their eyes tend to be scary... But that's it.


How are there eyes scary? Could you elaborate on this?


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## He's a Superhero! (May 1, 2013)

BluIon said:


> You basically have to investigate them w out them knowing. People like to say it's hard but it's really not if your grounded enough. Key is they cannot know.
> 
> There's always a door for those who look hard enough. Different people will show you different doors differently.
> 
> ...


One Sociopath in my past would never admit to it, tho another would...

This new potential Sociopath (I'm unaware of any official diagnosis) I'm thinking I won't tell them my thoughts tho...at least not yet. I want to watch them for a while. I don't see any reason to avoid them or be rude or anything like that, he is just another person with some condition - and he has something, whatever it ends up being.


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## BluIon (Nov 10, 2014)

Yeah, didn't say they wouldn't let on that they were. I said don't let on that you know. That is if you actually want to know them and not just some bullshit show just for you. 
Idk, I don't really get off on lies so I'm apt to find the best ways to get the truth.


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## Kazuma Ikezawa (Oct 21, 2011)

There is a book called "Without Conscience" by Robert Hare that describes psychopaths and tells you how to spot them. You could read it or maybe search for articles online written on psychopaths by Robert Hare. Robert Hare is an expert on psychopaths but I'm pretty sure in the book he said that even sometimes he can't spot some psychopaths.


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## Scarlet_Heart (Oct 11, 2014)

He's a Superhero! said:


> Another thing tho, they use a questionnaire to properly diagnose someone with ASPD, so certain questions must be particularly effective at working this out. Maybe a set of a few question would be enough? I would love to know more about this questionnaire, and which questions are most important.


This probably isn't official, but it might give you some insight into the types of questions asked.


Personality Disorder Screening Test | Medindia


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## He's a Superhero! (May 1, 2013)

Lmessi24 said:


> There is a book called "Without Conscience" by Robert Hare that describes psychopaths and tells you how to spot them. You could read it or maybe search for articles online written on psychopaths by Robert Hare. Robert Hare is an expert on psychopaths but I'm pretty sure in the book he said that even sometimes he can't spot some psychopaths.


So he said he cannot spot Psychopaths in particular? Because Sociopaths and Psychopaths are a bit different, and Psychopaths are easier to spot of the two, but both can be spotted.
I think he may be right tho, at least about Sociopaths - I do believe some would be especially hard to spot, if you could at all. Good for them I suppose tho, as they then escape the stigma.


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## Kazuma Ikezawa (Oct 21, 2011)

He's a Superhero! said:


> So he said he cannot spot Psychopaths in particular? Because Sociopaths and Psychopaths are a bit different, and Psychopaths are easier to spot of the two, but both can be spotted.
> I think he may be right tho, at least about Sociopaths - I do believe some would be especially hard to spot, if you could at all. Good for them I suppose tho, as they then escape the stigma.


He said he can spot psychopaths most of the time, but he also said that once in a while there will be some psychopaths that he can't spot. He doesn't discuss sociopaths.


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## He's a Superhero! (May 1, 2013)

Lmessi24 said:


> He said he can spot psychopaths most of the time, but he also said that once in a while there will be some psychopaths that he can't spot. He doesn't discuss sociopaths.


Ok, well he is probably right about that as well. I know a Psychopath who is probably more difficult to spot, however he is high functioning, so that's probably why. The function level would play a big role in this I think.


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## He's a Superhero! (May 1, 2013)

This is no giveaway, but I believe typically with Sociopaths in particular they dress neat and tidy, or to fit in with their social surroundings. They don't tend to look messy, tho some would be more tidy than others, and some aren't so tidy.

On the other hand, Psychopaths aren't so neat and tidy with the way they normally dress, and the emphasis is probably not so much on fitting in as it is for Sociopaths. Also, from what I've noticed, they seem to be more inclined to do crazy stuff with their hair and bodies - like metal studs, tattoos, etc. - which many people do without having ASPD, but there could be a commonality to this with Psychopaths as well.

Just some ideas that are based on what I've been seeing visually in my experiences, but what are you thoughts?


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## Kazuma Ikezawa (Oct 21, 2011)

From what I've read and observed, high functioning psychopaths tend to have very good social skills, are charming and are able to make friends and blend in with people easily. They are also very confident. Low functioning psychopaths/less intelligent psychopaths for the most part end up in jail.


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## Windblownhair (Aug 12, 2013)

There was a study done, indicating that psychopaths and sociopaths blink less than the average human. It is more noticeable under startling circumstances, when an average human would start blinking more, but the blink rate remains the same for psychopaths/sociopaths.

Perhaps this is one of the things @Fern noticed about their eyes?


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## Fern (Sep 2, 2012)

Windblownhair said:


> There was a study done, indicating that psychopaths and sociopaths blink less than the average human. It is more noticeable under startling circumstances, when an average human would start blinking more, but the blink rate remains the same for psychopaths/sociopaths.
> 
> Perhaps this is one of the things @_Fern_ noticed about their eyes?


YES, exactly! That's a perfect way of describing that.

Also, there's this... intensity that I can't quite put words to. As if they're staring into you and not seeing you as a person.


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## S33K3RZ (Oct 18, 2014)

He's a Superhero! said:


> My question is: How do you visually spot ASPD(Anti-social Personality Disorder) spectrum/Sociopaths and Psychopaths? What answers to questions do they typically give? What questions could reveal ASPD?
> 
> I'm interested in hearing from 1) people who actually know someone with this condition very well, 2) from psychologists/psychiatrists who studied up on the subject, and 3) from ASPD Sociopaths and Psychopaths who know that they have this condition.
> 
> ...


A good rule of thumb is ask yourself, do they act like a politician? If the answer is yes, or if they seem to have a lack of empathy the answer may be yes.


The Establishment Plagued with Sociopaths, Psychopaths and Useful Idiots
The Startling Accuracy of Referring to Politicians as 'Psychopaths' - The Atlantic
The Cure - Kindle edition by Douglas E. Richards. Mystery, Thriller & Suspense Kindle eBooks @ Amazon.com.


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## Mirkwood (Jul 16, 2014)

Well, visually there is not really any bullet proof measures, as others have mentioned.
+ That is also what the experts say in most books. But anyway some go ahead and suggest some signs.

For example, ... perhaps most derived from Bioenergetics. The Controller / Leader (Psychopath) | Energetics Institute

Not sure if it is mentioned in there. But some suggest that they will walk in a swagger like style, leading with the pelvis.

You could try and look alot of pictures and videos of actual diagnosed or convicted psychopaths, then try and make your own judgement of it.

Also depending on who you ask perhaps. There will be different answer to what 
ASPD/Sociopaths/Psychopaths means.
For me, to my memory, as I put them into catagory.
ASPD is perhaps just a "simple" criminal
Sociopaths are some who are it by their history or aquired it later by some brain damage.
And Psychopaths and some who are were pretty much born that way. Tho I dont really like to believe that some are bad in their essens.

Also, as many mention in books. There is a big difference if they actually are sadistic or not.


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## He's a Superhero! (May 1, 2013)

Windblownhair said:


> There was a study done, indicating that psychopaths and sociopaths blink less than the average human. It is more noticeable under startling circumstances, when an average human would start blinking more, but the blink rate remains the same for psychopaths/sociopaths.
> 
> Perhaps this is one of the things @_Fern_ noticed about their eyes?


This is interesting! Thank you for posting that.


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## He's a Superhero! (May 1, 2013)

Mirkwood said:


> Also depending on who you ask perhaps. There will be different answer to what
> ASPD/Sociopaths/Psychopaths means.
> For me, to my memory, as I put them into catagory.
> ASPD is perhaps just a "simple" criminal
> ...


It is true that depending on who you ask will depend on the answers, which is like everything really. I'm not after what people think ASPD is, as I know what it is from the medical/psychological definition. This thread is about perception.


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## Mirkwood (Jul 16, 2014)

He's a Superhero! said:


> It is true that depending on who you ask will depend on the answers, which is like everything really. I'm not after what people think ASPD is, as I know what it is from the medical/psychological definition. This thread is about perception.


, ok. Yes.

Here is something I came to think about. Your avatar, the man is sitting right next to an lion, you could perhaps say he has a lack in startle response.. fear. As it is said about psychopathy.
So that could be a clue to spot one. 
But he could also be surpressing it.. mastering it.. know the lions so well that he feels confident.

As they say, fear keeps one at bay, alert. 

I dont want to sound lecturing.. But..
perception, how to spot one visually.. This is exactly what their good at, mask of sanity and all that.
Total control of their false selves. So judging by the book, is perhaps the most error prone way to go about it.
Like walking with a cardboard template in front of you.
..

But, visually..
Some say that psychopaths are at the very extreme end of extroversion.
And therefore people like Jerome Kagan who has studied alot in extroversion/introversion, would suggest from his data, that they more often have wider faces and body, darker eyes.
But it is just a statistic, a percentage, could be slim with bright blue eyes.

I am not an professional, but do have some 12+ books that are about or touch the subject. Just out of curiosity, understanding.
I am not always sure if I meet one or not.
I have meet this girl who called herself a psychopath and more with a giggle, and yet I still dont know if I should had believed her or not. It was pretty brief but a long story. Alot would suggest that, yes she were, and alot would not.
She could simply have had an horrible past. Offering alot of love which she may not had had, but also giving others what she got.
Blamed for being selfish when she was not, etc.
I never really found out.


Id also agree in this, atleast it is my ideal.


> - This thread is not intended on villainize any mental condition. Its purpose if for better understanding and better communication, as well as more awareness. I encourage everyone posting to remain respectful to eachother no matter what mental conditions anyone has.


For example, Narcissism/narcissist, one can almost wonder why the criteria and diagnose was made, because there are so many books around that portray them as monsters, pure evil, run, .. etc.
Tons of books that tries to describe, etc. But few that intend to help those who may want to change things.


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## He's a Superhero! (May 1, 2013)

Mirkwood said:


> , ok. Yes.
> 
> Here is something I came to think about. Your avatar, the man is sitting right next to an lion, you could perhaps say he has a lack in startle response.. fear. As it is said about psychopathy.
> So that could be a clue to spot one.
> But he could also be surpressing it.. mastering it.. know the lions so well that he feels confident.


I'm guessing you are trying to help me understand thru things I'm familiar with so I properly comprehend what you are saying - but just in case lol, I'm about the opposite of someone with ASPD...this probably makes them more interesting for me tho, as naturally I cannot understand them on any level, so I want to understand...gradually I'm getting a better understanding of them. At the very least I want to know how to deal with them in a positive way so we can have proper friendships (provided they are friendship material, which is a question that applies to everybody regardless).



Mirkwood said:


> As they say, fear keeps one at bay, alert.
> 
> I dont want to sound lecturing.. But..
> perception, how to spot one visually.. This is exactly what their good at, mask of sanity and all that.
> ...


Their masks tend to be psychological, so that hides how they act, but not how they look necessarily. Like Sociopaths dressing neatly and to fit in socially, and Psychopaths being more random and extreme in their clothing choices (at least some of the time anyway).

Megalomaniacs is a tough one for me as well, as I think it would be even more difficult to be close friends with one due to them seemlingly only interested in themselves, while I have seen ASPDs show authentic interest in others. I'd very much like to unlock the secret to helping NPD too tho, so any insight on them would be great!


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

I dated this guy I think had some form of one of them. 

(Obviously thats just my speculation and guess)

He was not my usual type at all. My usual type tends to be a bit alternative and outside the box so to speak. 

He was one of the only socially conventional people I dated. And by first appearances seemed wonderful. Why because he did all the right things said all the right things so to speak. 

Anyways he definitely used the 'nice guy' act. But what became very evident to me about him was that he was mimicking human behavior to what he thought people do. (Not actually acting human so to speak). And that was where our differences would show because he was not much capable beyond faking of offering opinions of his own. He was a 'yes man' so to speak. I noticed he tended to watch and then agree with people. I started to call him out and ask him what he thought, and he would stumble anytime he did not have something rehearsed. He also seemed to be over dramatic when exhibiting emotion that he thought people do. Example would be like he would tear up in odd exaggerated form that even sensitive individuals would look at and scratch their heads. He was kind of like a robot. By outward appearances he projected he was this kind wonderful person but really he seemed incredibly hollow to me, after I got to know him. Oh yeah his occupation was a nurse. Anyways I think these things that were over projected and off to 'normal' people so to say, would easily be seen or evident in many like it. The person may be able to put up a facade in public persona but when they get to personal relationship its much harder to keep that up. Person to person contact can't all be rehearsed eventually the person will call you out on a moment. I noticed this was when he seemed frustrated. Honestly I did not date him long because of these weird findings. I will say towards the end I almost acted obnoxious in antagonizing just to see if he had any sort of fuse, you know genuine pain (not staged tears), or anger. He always had a robot response.


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## Mirkwood (Jul 16, 2014)

He's a Superhero! said:


> I'm guessing you are trying to help me understand thru things I'm familiar with so I properly comprehend what you are saying - but just in case lol, I'm about the opposite of someone with ASPD...this probably makes them more interesting for me tho, as naturally I cannot understand them on any level, so I want to understand...gradually I'm getting a better understanding of them. At the very least I want to know how to deal with them in a positive way so we can have proper friendships (provided they are friendship material, which is a question that applies to everybody regardless).


Yes, maybe . I dont know how much you read and everything already. That was why I added that I did not want to seem like I was trying to lecture you or anything.
Haha, I did not really think you were either, just, it caught my attention suddenly, Man, Lion, Startle.

I like your view on that last bit, and understand that. That is also partly why I have ended up with a small libary of 106 books by now ^^, understanding in general and someone who is so different from one self, yet also very similar. Much or everything in that field, we ourselves, everybody contains.
Actually, it was mostly because of that girl calling herself a psychopath, the events in that meeting.
But has also turned into a self discover mission and more.

Tho, sometimes I may think I had been better without all those books.
Who needs to open a book? right, and a friend is often better than a professional. 
Ordinary daily langauge and terms for things, why need more. It is relief when a book is more or less "jargon" free at times, that also makes an langauge barrier at times.
[/QUOTE]



He's a Superhero! said:


> Megalomaniacs is a tough one for me as well, as I think it would be even more difficult to be close friends with one due to them seemlingly only interested in themselves, while I have seen ASPDs show authentic interest in others. I'd very much like to unlock the secret to helping NPD too tho, so any insight on them would be great!


Megalomaniacs!, new word for me, and I thought I had just about read it all by now.
Just had to look that up. Narcissism is very tricky and not so easy to grasp, I still struggle a little to wrap my head around all the facets, eventho the first book of them all was just about that.

Id like to try and bring some insight from how I have come to try and think about it. Make alot of qoutes..
But, that would be rather messy and long.

instead.. here are my short opinions on some books.

_Trapped in the Mirror _
A pretty new book, stays earthbound. has good examples/cases tho many seem from a more private relationship.
Has personal history.

_Malignant Self-Love: Narcissism Revisited: Sam Vaknin_
This is sometimes refered too as the bible of narcissism. While it is big and all that, it is pretty much the book I learned and understood the least from.
One that I need to take a break from often. Seen his youtube videos?, he has a very special way he puts things, grand and big?, he has made alot of definitions that are not really used elsewhere.
He is self proclaimed narcissist and expert.
But it has it points.

_humanizing the narcissistic style OR Character Styles_
I prefer the latter, it has almost the same content as the first regarding narcissism + more + newer. 
He is very empathetic, takes a view point from many schools not just 1(which also is the downfall at times), he mentions alot that he actually has alot of friends who are very narcissistic.

_Psychoanalytic Diagnosis: Understanding Personality Structure in the Clinical Process_
Another allround book. Psychoanalytic but modern.

_Narcissism: Denial of the True Self_
It has alot of age now. He is very involved in bioenergetics which can be exciting but seem a little "out there", while the message of remebering the body is good, it just..
It tries to grasp things in a spectrum from, phallic, narcissistic, borderline, psychopath, paranoid.
Has alot of stories.

_
Will I Ever Be Good Enough?: Healing the Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers
The Narcissistic Family: Diagnosis and Treatment
The Search for the Real Self: Unmasking the Personality Disorders of Our Age _
Are all not so bad at all. While the top is titled as for daugthers of mothers, then it is still relevant for whoever, the "Will I ever be good enough" part is universal.

.....

I think that was it.. 
And then I want to say... It is great to try and understand, but we cant realllly change anybody.. and if it is unwanted/un-wished for...
But it is also okay to have wishes, hopes, for somebody, wanting something for someone.
Narcissism is exactly said to be "Dont be you, be me" denial. But sometimes there are also no wishes at all, which I think can be pretty bad aswell.. And we all, or many have a thought or attitude of "be me, be you" towards our children or future ones. 

.. Actor who becomes the act. Seeks love (whatever that might be) like everyone else.
Likes sympathetic mirroring, tho not so good in the feeling department.

Ultimate sacrifice, sacrifice of the self.

I like to keep in mind that there are many daugthers or sons of narcissists, who are terrified to see something like that in themselves. Or well, totally became themselves.
As it is ordinary that there might be some slight detail about our parents which we may not like, or want to be ourselves.

I think often we run into our own narcissism at times. One site mentioned those momments where we might really crave to be seen or heard.


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## ectomorphine (Jan 5, 2015)

I know them quite well, I've worked with them, socialized with them.. I can spot them quite well now, maybe as a survival skill.. I tend to attract them too idk why


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