# I made a video; more honest than my last threads



## Deadly Decorum (Feb 23, 2014)

I expand. A lot.

I'm a seed that grows into a flower, not a flower itself.


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## Du Toit (Mar 2, 2014)

hoopla said:


> It comes from the fact the *everyone is an individual. Not that I think everyone is unique*; clearly there are people who fit in and people who don't. Looking at the big picture I think there are *unique and normal dichotomies* we can sort people into, but behind the scenes everyone has at least one idiosyncrasy that sets them apart. *Even if there's no such thing as a truly unique trait* (there is no evidence for me to believe and evidence changes all the time), everyone's personality is sequenced in a way that will not fit every person alone. I like viewing people as individuals. Equals. If we don't understand where everyone is coming from we won't reach a consensus. We won't work together; we'll grow apart. We won't reach a goal.
> 
> What I have discovered through self reflection is a lot of what I do is a desire to be understood/fit in. *I tried to be popular because I was sick of being an outcast, of being left out, not understood and on the same level of my peers. It didn't work, and I rebelled by dressing goth*. I recall my mother telling a therapist from my teenage "dream" that I had a deep desire to feel understood. I don't want to be judged; I'll do what others want so they won't judge me, and it's really suffocating and kind of sucky I let ppl take advantage of me like that.
> 
> Sometimes you need to act in accordance to a person's feelings. If someone is upset, or desires something from you, you should accommodate if you care about them and their feelings. Or if you want something, you have to do what they desire to achieve it. *But in general I realized my "people pleasing" is often related to myself, and that I like following my values.* I like compromising, so my values and others are considered, but I like my ideals to be considered. Everyone has wants and desires and they need to be acknowledged, rather than "put those aside and do what's right for humanity and the social structure as a whole".


Bold parts are hallmarks of Fi. Your way of working with people is stressing individuality to reach understanding, and establish relation; while an Fe would recognize these differences among individual, but work in a way of finding commonality among people to create harmony. Also, the part about you wanting to be popular resonates a lot with my brother who is an INFP as well. Used to know a lot of people from pre-k to H.S, now he's like ''fuck people''.

Btw thank you. I might be helping you here, but you are also helping me polish my understanding of Fi and Fe.


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## The Hungry One (Jan 26, 2011)

I'm an INFP and I don't feel that spark of recognition I get when I see other INFPs. I'd say with near 100% certainty that you are not an INFP. 

Here is why I don't think you are an INFP (arguments arranged in order of strength):
-*The way you speak.* You speak very fluidly. If you go on youtube and you watch INFPs, there is a common habit of _pausing frequently_ while speaking to think things through. This is dominant Fi in action; weighing in constantly to make sure nothing "wrong" is being said. There's a hesitancy to INFP speech that you don't have at all.
-*Lack of facial expressions.* Now it's true that Fi is very stoic, but Fi-dom is not *the* most stoic. Your eyebrows don't even really move. Your eyebrooows...
-*You seem primarily focused on past events.* INFPs like to talk about the future, dreams, aspirations, ideas.
- *The interaction with the girl at your job.* I agree with you. I also feel like Fi dominant would be more empathetic as to why the lady wanted to talk. The reason you gave for not saying what you really felt (you were at your job, so it wasn't the appropriate circumstance) also isn't very INFP. I feel like an INFP reason would be "it was the wrong thing to do; it would hurt her." I don't think an INFP would hug someone they hated. It would go against their true feelings, coupled with their high moral ideals. 
-*Your eyes are very still.* I don't think you're a perceiver. Perceivers have dominant Ne or Se somewhere in the top two functions which makes them more fidgety and more erratic speakers. 

You do remind me vaguely of INTJ, but I really am only familiar with intuitives, so I can't say for sure. 

I'd say the types I can rule out certainly are INFP, ISTP, ISTJ, ESFP, ESTP, ENFJ, ESFJ, and ESTJ. 

So what remains are: ISFP, INTP, INFJ, ISFJ, INTJ, ENFP, ENTP, and ENTJ. 

I really recommend you go on youtube and search up the types you are considering. There are many habits and cues associated with each type that are difficult to explain in writing. 


* *




Here's an INFP who demonstrates the speech patterns and habits that I mentioned, though you should be able to see them in any INFP video:


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## The Hungry One (Jan 26, 2011)

Double post.


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## Deadly Decorum (Feb 23, 2014)

That makes a lot of sense. I stress the difference of individuals; what is it that each person wants so they can all work together? That's how I find common ground; through differences. I wouldn't say I'm "everyone is different, but put those differences aside". No, view those differences, so everyone can understand the individual wants and needs and adapt. 

It's like, my mom, whom I have a huge conflict with. She's just like "we should seek counseling. I want us to bond before we move away... so we can do things together. I'm not trying to be mean (jfc I know you're stating the obvious), but we don't get along, and I just don't want us to be mean".

Fi or Fe? Idk but she does seem like she doesn't care about our differences, and just wants us to blend together as one. I just want to say "we're not understanding each other and what we each need". I want us to find our differences and find ways that we can accept these differences and do things for each other to accept our needs so we can bond and make each other happy. If we don't get along in the future and take separate paths that's fine because she's my mom and I'll love her. We don't understand each other. She's more along the lines of "we don't get along and we fight! We disrespect each other". I want a compromise to accept our differences, so it's not like I don't want to do things for others. 

Yeah I'm glad your brother found peace. I lean more and more towards "fuck them" as I age. I just need to work on my confidence so I can do what I want, because I'll honestly be happiest when I do what's best for me (but also others... respecting what they want individually). 

No problem glad we could help each other.


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## Deadly Decorum (Feb 23, 2014)

@The Hungry One

Going to be honest... I'm not going with those videos. How do I know those people aren't mistyped? And I'm not going to waste my time watching those videos to pick out if they typed correctly (and since my understanding is piss poor how do I know if I'm typing correctly?) 

Yeah I'm not 100 percent sold on Fi... I'm still waiting for others to pick out and argue ti/fe. I'm glad you mentioned the thing about the girl at work... I think that needs to be considered. And of course the fact it would hurt her was in consideration... like I'd tell someone I hated them, unless I couldn't stand them. If I like someone I don't like hurting their feelings. And I didn't hate her, I just disliked her. there's a difference. Also I doubt only Fi has values of what is "right" or "wrong", but I have no reasoning to back this up. Also remember this was one video. You're not going to get the whole picture of who I am as a person. Do I talk about dreams or aspirations? Do I discuss things that aren't there? Yeah. I'm not going to say a sensor is incapable (ew stereotypes; I just want to argue against your statement) but I could talk all day about if life is just imaginary or an illusion, and I looove ideas. But yes there's a focus of past rather than current events... si is clear. Ne/si I settled on. If si is dominate... Si is dominate. Ok done.

But... remember "J" and "P" are meaningless. Technically, INFPs are judgers because they lead with a judging function (Fi). If I'm wrong correct me? And if we're going with the "p"= dominate perceiver logic infp is not a dominate perceiver because Fi is their dominate function, not Ne.


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## The Hungry One (Jan 26, 2011)

@hoopla
1. I trust the videos because I have had enough experience with INFPs to know one when I see one. I'm sure there are videos with mistyped people, but I'm certain that the one I have linked is not. But I guess what I haven't considered is that people recognize types differently. I get "vibes" from people that work combined with the things they say. Perhaps you recognize types better through functional breakdown? 

2. I don't think feelers are the only ones who don't want to hurt others. It's just a matter of tendency and awareness. Is the primary concern not to hurt people, or is it something else?

My understanding of Fi is just "is this morally justifiable?/ can I live with myself if I behave this way?" And my primary means of measuring this is "does this hurt anybody?" and "am I being honest?"

I agree, dreams and aspirations are not only in the realm of intuitives. Once again, it's just tendency and preference. 

3. Yes, J and P are meaningless in the way you mention. 

Even though introverted perceivers lead with their judging function, it just means they have to pause a bit to filter all the information that they are still taking in. Ne or Se is still present and active. Extroverted perceivers just don't filter as much, so they talk more smoothly, yes, but they are also just all over the place. You really can feel the energy from a Ne- or Se-dom.

Whereas a type without dominant or auxiliary Ne or Se would have this kind of focus that you seem to exemplify. I am maybe 80% certain of this. 

Unrelated, I suppose, since I misinterpreted your initial statement: 

* *




J and P are logically coupled with "fidgety" functions Ne or Se. Despite the theoretical-ness of the MBTI, it makes logical sense. 

For example, an INFP is a perceiver. To score as a perceiver, you must self-report as someone who does not like to make decisions right away, who likes to keep options open. 

It makes sense then that a perceiver who also considers themselves intuitive will have Ne, intuition that keeps generating new ideas, as opposed to Ni, intuition that boils down ideas to a likely outcome. 

It makes sense similarly that a perceiver who also considers themselves sensing will have Se, outward-focused sensing that is always taking in new information (and thus makes it harder to come to a decision), than Si, sensing that looks back on the past to make a decision. 

So that's what I meant when I said you are most likely a judger because you do not seem to show either the outward signs or the thinking of a perceiver. There is little Ne or Se that constantly fidgets with new possibilities. You seem fairly steady on your train of thought and focused when you speak.





Editing complete.


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## Lexicon Devil (Mar 14, 2014)

Don't worry. Just be patient. You will find you type soon. If you want do a second video and just talk about your life and beliefs and stuff. That would be cool if you want. You do sound very intelligent and determined. And very beautiful thumbnail. :wink:


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## Deadly Decorum (Feb 23, 2014)

Oh I get vibes, inclinations. There are times where I "feel" a person is xyz... where are the answers? They are in me, and I wait for others to project what I cannot say into the external world. They get what I wanted to say but have the answer. Like they read my mind. But see, I still pick out everything they have said. Sometimes the process has been unfolded in a way that went across my head, but I would still have to weed through what I know is ti or fi or whatever. And I don't feel like doing that, even if the process is not conscious. Especially if my typing is wrong as yes, my understanding of functions are piss poor.

Lol love how you say the dichotomies or J or P are useless, and then you separate J and P into those trite dichotomies "see INFP means P, so you're taking forever to reach decisions I had sex with Isabel Briggs Myers last night". 

Focused I would disagree. I speak in stories. My thoughts are all over the place. One idea is another idea and I forgot what I said until the next idea leads to the prior. I cannot focus on my thoughts (what are thoughts). But that doesn't mean you are wrong. You could be like 100 percent correct and I could be so blind as to not see.

I'm not here to say I am right and you are wrong. Perhaps none of us are right. Wrong and right are perceptions after all. Are they real things, or are they concepts. I just disagreed, and I said what I felt. I'm curious to hear your thoughts. I'm not going to tell you who's right or wrong here; that's up to you. Besides I doubt sensors are incapable of discussing concepts and intuitives are unaware of the realities presented around them. People are too complex for that.


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## Deadly Decorum (Feb 23, 2014)

Geoffrey Felis said:


> And very beautiful thumbnail. :wink:


Hoping for sarcasm.

Maybe there was beauty there that I was unable to see. A person could find beauty in a piece of garbage if they wanted.


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## The Hungry One (Jan 26, 2011)

@hoopla
1. I'm not sure what you mean by "the answer is in you" and "sometimes the process has been unfolded in a way that went across my head." This strikes me (being stereotypical here) as some kind of Ni. I suppose my "vibes" are based on precedent. e.g. INFPs I know tend to speak hesitantly, so when I see someone else speak hesitantly I think "s/he is most likely INFP."

Based on that first paragraph you wrote, I'd rule out INTJ. 

2. Yeah I guess I said that bit about J and P to sound less confrontational. But also I initially believed you meant "J" and "P" were misnomers, because Perceivers actually lead with a judging function. I wanted to agree with that. 

3. Hmm I see. By focused, I meant more by presentation. Your eyes are fixated on the camera, you seem wholly focused on presenting your thoughts. 

4. I agree that concepts and realities are not limited to intuitives and sensors. It's more a measure of preference. It makes sense that someone who prefers to deal with the practical would not prefer to idle their time with the fanciful. And thus the dichotomies come into existence. Not capacity--MBTI should never be used to measure capacity--only _preference_. This is key. 

There are sensors who are more intellectually capable of grasping concepts than some intuitors. What makes them sensors is that they'd rather not. They prefer the practical. 

I hope that provided some insight to my reasoning. If you have any questions, let me know. I really enjoy typology. I like figuring people out and seeing permutations of the MBTI types.


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## Deadly Decorum (Feb 23, 2014)

@The Hungry One

They can mean whatever you want them to mean. I can't be bothered to explain it.

Yeah vibes aren't always indicative of intuition, and throwing my piss poor understanding of the functions into the discard bin I would say your vibes aren't intuitive. You're all free to correct me if I'm wrong.

I guess what I was trying to say is I know the answer when I see it and I'm always figuring out the answers before I can even know how I got to such a function. fdffjs tanget I don't like explaining myself?

How I look has nothing to do with what is coming out of my mouth. Yes my eyes have meaning. The way I express myself is more pure and honest because what I can say can be a lie, but even when one is lying you can still get a sense of their preferences through how they utilize a lie. You have to take my expressions and combine them with my words. I_ looked_ focused. Did it match up with my processing?

Yeah thank you for the capacity thought. "omg this person is like so fucking intelligent; aren't they intuitives?" Lol where's my bible, can I throw it at you?


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## The Hungry One (Jan 26, 2011)

@hoopla
You sound kind of annoyed ^^ I hope you're not. I'm sorry my reasoning is frustrating. I tend to think out loud and change my mind constantly, so perhaps you are a Ti user who is annoyed by my logical inconsistencies as I keep shifting frameworks based on new information. 

Ti users tend to dislike sharing their logic, so that is also consistent. 

I think wolf is right. You remind me of an INTP and perhaps I overestimated how much Ne manifests in INTPs. Wolf basically listed types with the same functions (the INTP functions: Ti, Ne, Si, Fe). They just appear in different orders. E.g. ISFJ have Si Fe Ti Ne. 

I'm going to have to disagree with "How I look has nothing to do with what is coming out of my mouth," but I also blame myself for incompletely explaining myself.

1. How you present your statements reflects your though process. An INTJ and INFP both have the capacity to be very weird and random, but the way they speak is very different. The INFP is more expressive--which hints at the emotionality and the awareness of emotion--and even if they manage to stay on track, the restless Ne will interject with random ideas that must be silenced, hence the pauses. INTJ thought process runs more smoothly--so less pauses. I'm not sure if I am conveying this theory clearly or if you simply disagree with it. 

2. I listened to you recount your previous experiences with MBTI, from how you became interested in it to how you tried to figure out your type to what experiences make you uncertain about your type. I don't consider this particularly random. By random, I mean something like at the very beginning of this ENFP video in which the lady says "Now this is take two of ENFP-ness...Penis." That's the kind of Ne-associated tangent that I am familiar with in INFPs as well. It's really completely off-track.


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## Deadly Decorum (Feb 23, 2014)

I'm not pissed. The bible thing was a joke; it wasn't directed towards you, but people who separate functions into these black and white dichotomies. I'm not annoyed by you... I don't know what I am right now. Just listening I suppose.

Every single type has a tendency to be weird or random. It's all about what that weirdness and randomness means, and how you interpret weirdness and randomness.

This could be my piss poor understanding of the functions, but I thought since Fi is an internal process, the emotions may not be entirely present, but still there. I've heard somewhere Fi can look cold; emotionless. I'd think Fe would be more expressive. Also Ne is an external function; I am not saying you have to speak to exhibit Ne, but I don't understand why you'd have to pause to exhibit an external function. I also am not sure if wordplay like that is really Ne, or a function at all... maybe it speaks more to unconscious feelings of sex. Also I don't really find that random; I just see a person saying a syllable and connecting it to sex, even if sex wasn't there. This tells me life is all open to interpretation. You can hear head and think the circular thing held against your neck or think "lol head.... that's what she said... ha bj... sex sex sex... dick fuck anal sex". Or something entirely else and I don't feel like pulling ideas out of my ass. Let them speak for themselves. 

And yeah I can see how you didn't find that random, but you can find someone and they could say "wow.. the way she was just taking all these experiences to relate to her type... so random". Just like how someone might find me pretty and someone might find me ugly, or someone might find me boring or someone might find me interesting, or someone might find me kind or might find me a bitch, or find me intelligent or dumb as fuck. People have drawn all these interpretations from me before. How you view things is entirely subjective. It's all about what they mean to you.

I guess my randomness I was referring to was when I was just like "what is the universe what is reality" or whatever the fuck I said. Idk if you got there and I'm not expecting you to watch a 20 min tv show length video of a zoey deschanel wannabe manic pixie dream girl you've never even met. But you or someone else could find that completely on topic and cohesive to the parts of a whole. It's all about how you see things, again.

Also if you think "Enfp-ness penis" is random I'm sure you think "I'm just talking crap here. Toilet bowl" is random, but I don't care if you do or don't. Once again, it's all about how *you* see things. I don't see it as random. Off point yes, but crap is correlated with toilets. Maybe you think crap is correlated with buttholes or kitchen sinks or homeless shelters. Everything is subjective. Rinse and repeat.


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## Deadly Decorum (Feb 23, 2014)

I'm curious; what type do you think this girl is? Do you consider her random? Or a "I was stepping on blue grass and then I was taking a shit in the toilet bowl then I tripped and my head fell in the toilet then I took a shower the water felt warm this is my past" sensor type?


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## The Hungry One (Jan 26, 2011)

Regarding the video, I'm biased. I know Tori Amos is considered an INFP. 

I think the talk of magical rabbit and fox kind of random. I think the connection between female genital mutilation to cornflake girls is kind of an intuitive thought, but I can't confirm that for certain. Need more experience with sensors and how they think. 

I see the INFP pauses because I tend to obsess over INFP pauses lol.


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## Deadly Decorum (Feb 23, 2014)

She's INFJ ;P

Also seems like you draw on experiences too. 

And believe it or not I don't find the connection from female genitalia to a song about a seemingly unrelated concept random? I mean I can look at an object, and it can inspire a story. It all made sense to her in her head. I don't know. I think everyone sees things and thinks of things it inspires them. Why it's not random I cannot really explain. Decide that for yourself.

I would like to think every thought could be random. You say one thing and it leads to the next. At one angle it seems coherent, but maybe it was just a random machination in your mind.


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## The Hungry One (Jan 26, 2011)

Regarding the points you made: 

1. "I'd think Fe would be more expressive." I agree that dominant Fe should be more expressive than Fi, when expressiveness is the sum of verbal expressions of feelings and body language (facial expressions, tone of voice). 

"I thought since Fi is an internal process, the emotions may not be entirely present, but still there. I've heard somewhere Fi can look cold; emotionless." Fi can appear kind of cold and emotionless because feelings are very intense and personal, so Fi users don't want to show their feelings to everyone, in case someone invalidates their feelings--that would hurt. 

I think generally people with some kind of feeling (Fe or Fi) either dom or aux will be more expressive than people who don't simply because feeling is pivotal to how they understand the world. INFPs may smile because they think "I would feel uncomfortable if someone didn't smile when I was talking about happy things" and ENFJs may smile because they think "This person is happy; so I'm happy too." (*just my understanding)

2. "Also Ne is an external function...I don't understand why you'd have to pause to exhibit an external function." 
a. Ne/ Se describes how information is taken in. Both take in information from surroundings (they just notice different aspects of surroundings: related concepts vs concrete details). Hence fidgeting from looking around, which can cause pauses. 
b. Also, both are constantly adding new ideas to consider, which theoretically should jam up the judging function--Information must first be processed by judging function before it can be verbalized. Hence pauses.

Whereas Ni/ Si already knows what path it's going down (either gut instinct choosing the most promising possibility or recollection of definitive past event). They don't bring up distracting new ideas, so speech is smoother. 

**This is all theoretical. 

3. I see what you mean about the definition of random. I guess we are looking for a Ne-specific random?

The definition I have been using is "Does everything this person is saying generally contribute to the a single clear point they are trying to make?" I feel like Ne-doms often go on tangents so they briefly lose the point of what they were saying. They just *had* to say an idea that they thought up of at the moment and found interesting, even though it wasn't terribly related. Whereas Ni-users tend to stay on topic. 

"I guess my randomness I was referring to was when I was just like 'what is the universe what is reality' or whatever the fuck I said..." It could be cohesive. I guess it'd be not cohesive if it weren't related to a point she was trying to make. 

"Also if you think "Enfp-ness penis" is random I'm sure you think "I'm just talking crap here. Toilet bowl" is random, but I don't care if you do or don't." Yes, I think the toilet bowl bit was a bit random by the definition I was using.


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## The Hungry One (Jan 26, 2011)

@hoopla Upon further research, there's a bit of debate about Tori between INFP and INFJ. I guess I read a Tori INFP list. 

Yeahhh I draw a lot on experiences. My function-believing self would say as an INFP, I lack confidence in my own logic. I thus tend to believe experiences (Si) and research (Te) more than my own reasoning. I just don't like talking about the past in detail. I'd prefer to talk about theoreticals. 

I suppose randomness is measured according to the sensing majority. Hmmm.

It's 2:24 AM so I'm gonna get me some sleep. Good night for now. ^^


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## Deadly Decorum (Feb 23, 2014)

If it's theoretical I suppose I could take all of your points in reality and flush them down the toilet where they belong.

Kidding of course. I'm not even trying to make a decision anymore. I love all the different ideas that's we've been spinning; bouncing off. I'm just stimulated at this point.

We aren't looking for any sort of random. I'm just discussing random can mean any sort of thing you want it to mean, and honestly, I don't agree with calling intuition random, but I can't explain my processes.

And lol with your definition of Ne, I did exactly that... would lose track, go onto a tangent. Kept forgetting what I wanted to say. I realize I still forgot half of what I wanted to say. Friends comment on how I never finish a story. And I am not saying I am an intuitive. I'm not saying sensing is not in the cards (and I don't just mean this theoretically; I mean this with full sincerity. If anyone wants to declare ISFJ I will consider it with open arms. It has been suggested). I am not saying I am Ne. These are all moot points. I'm just saying I think we have different opinions on how I process my thoughts. And this is fine. I am enjoying this.

Also yeah when I said the universe thing it had nothing to do with what I was talking about. Or did it? 

I'm not measuring randomness on anything. I'm saying it's subjective and could mean whatever you want it to mean. When I woke up this morning I poured myself a bowl of cereal. Is that on topic because we associate morning with breakfast? Is that random because we started with waking up and concluded to cereal? Is that random because logically after waking up you'd go back to sleep or get out of bed, not magically transport yourself to a bowl of cereal? Is that random because this person wouldn't normally eat breakfast first; they'd get dressed first? Did they get dressed before they ate the cereal? Are we even discussing the whole story? Are we even discussing cereal? Are we discussing hope, or calmness, or clarity, or new beginnings?

See, randomness and meaning= subjectivity.

Good night


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## TyranAmiros (Jul 7, 2014)

Tori Amos' affect is very INFJ, see how every sentence ends on a downward pitch, even the questions. The Ni "what do I want to illustrate using this story" pauses and hedges. The Ni-Ti combination is also very present in how precise and concise the language is. My INFJ sister speaks a lot like Tori Amos, especially the "declarative question" style (i.e. asking a question as if it's a declarative statement). The ending on a downward pitch is something I strongly associate with strong levels of Ni. They pronounce, not ask. 

I find NPs tend to be much more likely to end sentences on upwards pitches because Ne is inviting the other person to respond, while Fe/Te are simply stating what's going on. ENPs ramble a lot, even switching positions within their own sentences just to see if the other person will be affected if the idea changes midstream; INPs don't do that quite so much on the outside, but every well-typed INP I know will certainly be doing this internally, and if in a conversation, may do it as loudly as an ENP. I know I'm guilty of doing it while I'm teaching. My best INFP friend and I do it on our seemingly instantaneous, two-hour phone calls. We jump around, lots of tangents, but because we're INPs we tend to eventually circle back on how everything relates to where we started. 

On tangents and NPs, it's something you just don't get with other types to the same degree. It has less to do with going on tangents per se, and more to do with Ne's verbal idea generation: I almost literally never know exactly what I'm saying until it comes out of my mouth. Oh sure, I'm really good at debate, but I find it difficult to prepare and what I do prepare generally goes right out the window when I get there. I teach classes oftentimes the same way--come up with an activity on the fly when I know my kids aren't getting it. And now I'm thinking about whether an NP could be elected president (Obama's an NJ in my opinion). And that's where Ne goes--I can't even predict what I'm writing in this sentence!

What I've found in typing, though, is that discovering Ne tends to make NPs very, very happy. It's like someone finally gets all their insanity--it's got a definition! And it means something! And it's good for something! I used to drive my sister crazy because she wanted to know about contemporary Turkish politics for a class project and I'd be talking about how the Mongol Invasions created modern ethnic tensions in Central Asia. But that's NJ vs NP--NJs want to get to the point or significance of the matter, NPs want to explore it. I drive my other INFJ friend crazy because I'm always cracking bad puns based on what he's saying, and it pisses him off because Ni-Ti sees the ideal he's trying to describe, and it frustrates him when he believes he's been misunderstood (it's a little easy to rile up an INFJ--just intentionally misunderstand them, they'll go crazy like an ISTP). An INTP who sometimes hangs with us often one-ups the punning, and it leads to a no-win situation.

But again, I've gone on a tangent--and now I'm thinking of a Dilbert strip, which is making me think of my first computer, and my Ne is going into overdrive. 

Um, I did watch the video, but I don't think I'm going to comment on it; you know what I have to say. I should say that given your video there is no way you're not intuitive; just the discussion at the 10 minute mark should be enough to demonstrate that. I'm happy to try to explain what being an NP is like if you're considering one of the NP types.


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## Wunderkind (Oct 26, 2014)

Can you relate to this description of an Intuitive-Thinking-Introvert? 



> Like their male counterparts, female ILIs tend to prefer darker hues in clothing and inconspicuous colors, such as dark-blue, gray, brown, and black. In combination with the darkened areas around eyes this mysterious girl, perhaps, better than others personifies the spirit of third quadra, which is expressed by the twilight state of consciousness on the edge of two worlds - the real and the surreal. There is something mystical in her, which gives off the impression that she knows something ... Female ILI does not like to stand out. She holds herself modestly, keeps in the background, never jumps out to front lines nor to the side lines. However, her sharp, critical mind and staggering capability for foresight quickly become noticeable if you associate with this girl over some matters. A skeptical attitude towards everything is characteristic to her. No enthusiasm, no ecstatic flight of thought, no boisterous emotions. She is the observer, the skeptic, and her forecasts frequently possess very pronounced negative character, although she, herself, will call this being sensible.


It's from socionics though. Although the cognitive functions Ni-Te would translate to INTJ, after reading the MBTI type descriptions, it's closer to INTP. So I would suggest INTP.

Btw, don't put nail polish on _and_ bite your finger nails. You'll eat much of the polish and this is really unhealthy stuff.


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## Lexicon Devil (Mar 14, 2014)

hoopla said:


> Hoping for sarcasm.


Just being silly.



> Maybe there was beauty there that I was unable to see. A person could find beauty in a piece of garbage if they wanted.


Yes, you were repeating yourself, but I see it as you were thinking out loud.


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## Du Toit (Mar 2, 2014)

Edit.


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## The Hungry One (Jan 26, 2011)

@hoopla

Precious theories nooo. Yeah, technically though. ^^

I think it's increasingly likely that I overlooked Ne in your video. My judgement on it was shaky to begin with; based mostly on eye contact and I think it was listed as my weakest argument. I guess I have to figure out how to see aux-Ne in action. 

I see what you mean by "randomness is subjective." But then does "random" have any meaning at all?

I feel like the way you break the concept apart strikes me as very INTP, so (pedantically) I say, INTP seems right. Thoughts? Or do you just not care at this point.


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## Du Toit (Mar 2, 2014)

Edit again -_-


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## Du Toit (Mar 2, 2014)

The Hungry One said:


> Precious theories nooo. Yeah, technically though. ^^
> 
> I think it's increasingly likely that I overlooked Ne in your video. My judgement on it was shaky to begin with; based mostly on eye contact and I think it was listed as my weakest argument. I guess I have to figure out how to see aux-Ne in action.
> 
> ...





> I know it may sound banal, but from my stay here, I realized that Fi types will mostly always say that people are stupid, full of shit and suck; while Fe types are more inclined to say that people aren't as carved as they'd like them to be or even too stressful. Both statements are somewhat similar in that they express the sentiment of not relating to your surroundings, but Fi expresses it in a more bashful/negative way.


 Would you agree with this assessment of Fi VS Fe ? Since it seems hard to type her, I think we should work with what stands out more about her, to rule out what doesn't fit.


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## The Hungry One (Jan 26, 2011)

Laf said:


> Would you agree with this assessment of Fi VS Fe ? Since it seems hard to type her, I think we should work with what stands out more about her, to rule out what doesn't fit.


I wouldn't. 

I feel like saying people suck is so general; it depends really on what triggered it. I think any type is capable of saying such a thing, you know what I mean? And I don't really think there are trends in frequency. I think it's a very human sentiment.


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## Du Toit (Mar 2, 2014)

The Hungry One said:


> I wouldn't.
> 
> I feel like saying people suck is so general; it depends really on what triggered it. I think any type is capable of saying such a thing, you know what I mean? And I don't really think there are trends in frequency. I think it's a very human sentiment.


True that.


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## Deadly Decorum (Feb 23, 2014)

I have a lot to respond to, so enjoy a college essay.
@TyranAmiros-

Yeah I always thought Ne would be more incessant, rapid fire and rambly in speech because they just keep shooting off new ideas. They keep expanding. Like it's a dumb example, but if you take Spongebob SquarePants (I type him as ESFJ, though there has been others; I think Ne is clear tho, and i def think he's Fe dom), you see that.... no pauses, just incessant speech that won't die down because he keeps expanding and going out of the left field. Sure there's more mature examples but Spongebob is fucking awesome so why not.

Yeah the video was pure improvisation. I had a well played out idea at stake, but after awhile I had no idea where I was going. Not even to see if others will be affected; I just think of one thing, then it reminds me of another, then another, and I'll forget where I was going. I need a script for presentation or I sound sloppy. I've even had friends ask "what the hell are you going on about?" Even when I write yeah, I have a clear direction but it expands into something else much of the time.

I don't like puns, unless they're clever, because many of them are super cheesy. Witty puns I'll partake in, but those david and goliath tee shirts "you rock you rule" please go away.

Lol that makes sense as to how si and ne work together; using past experiences to fill in the blanks. I have a friend who gets annoyed when something will remind me of some seemingly unrelated thing I've seen before, and it's kinda funny. Does your brain ever feel like it never stops?

Yeah I've been contemplating some of the things we spoke of in pm, and I don't feel comfortable discussing intimate things we disclosed in mail; it feels private between the two of us. However I will say I can relate to being spacey and scattered. I was obsessed with the mr men and little miss when I was far too old for it as I didn't discover that world until I was like 9, and I loved the really 60's vibe as well as the zany characters and how it was essentially personification of a singular personality trait. I'd read them in private. I was going through the back of the books and deciding which ones fit me the most, and I picked lil miss scatterbrained. Haha. If you want me to share more thoughts you can pm me but I'm happy you've even paid this much attention to me. I didn't think you would.

Do you ever experience a lot of miscommunication; like you say one thing and you know what it means to you but everyone else is just ???? I guess that'spart of the human experience, but it happens to me on a regular basis.

I think my mom is an ISFJ, and she's scattered too, but for me scattered is more the sum of who I am as a person. It's annoying, but it's who I am. As for my mom, she's pretty level headed, but gets scattered when drained of energy or stressed; it's not just a trait for her.... it's a negative thing she hates. 
@Wunderkind

I can yes. though a) I can relate to most profiles and b) I wear color (sometimes I dress straight up goth; I've never stuck to a singular style unless you count my emo phase). Standing out.... I am torn between wanting to be seen as eccentric and fit in. Especially if I'm viewed as the one man out or inferior or incapable. But I like being seeing as weird, or different, though in more of a Zoeey Deschanel way and not nerd you beat behind the lockers way. I guess what's I'm trying to say is I want to be seen as weird and unique, but in a positive way, not as a lesser of society. I hate being called ordinary or normal, tbh.

and you noticed! I guess it was arrogant of me to assume you were all dumb enough to not notice. It was the first time I painted my nails in forever cuz I chew them hardcore. I'm trying to stop, and I thought maybe the polish would help, but I rebelled. I know polish is toxic, and that's y i don't paint them. I was thinking about wiping it off so no one would say anything but was too lazy and hoped for the best. Nope, you guys noticed.

@The Hungry One If I were 14 I would have typed myself as INTP. I viewed myself as extremely logical, and I wasn't into hugs or anything touchy feelly, not as if I didn't partake, but it wasn't my bag. I realized however I am quite emotional and do get touchy feely, but maybe not in the enthusiastic "babies and kittens and hallmarkcards" way, so idk if INTP works. Not to say thinkers are robots, but you know. Lots of people see me as not emotional, and then others are like "wow ur so emotional!" That isn't a rare occurrence for an Fi dom tho.

Yes I know you think Fi anything is 100 percent out of the question; absolute. I feel as if you were kinda offended by such a consideration because you didn't click with me. I keep exploring your sentiment that Fi wouldn't hug someone they dislike because it's wrong thing tho. It irks me you think there's a black and white, absolute stance on mortality, or that a specific group of people would all have the same morals, and anyone with a different way of viewing mortality can go home as they don't "belong". Yeah rape is wrong, I will never think it's ok, but on most issues morality to me is completely subjective. I would view telling her I dislike her as wrong because it would hurt her feelings and there was no reason to say such a thing. But the hug? How is that hurting her; she didn't even know. Plus I just simply enjoy secrets. However, I could see it as Fe cuz emotional manipulation? I used to be highly against that, and even lying, then I realized you don't move ahead in life if you are completely honest or manipulation a situation. That came maybe in my teens.
@Laf I used to think "I'm just not typable" but am I really that special of a snowflake? I would say it's not me, but more than a) everyone has difficult levels of understanding and knowledge of the functions; b) there are different models and theories and different sources of information, so not everyone is on the same wavelength and c)there are different interpretations of human behavior. You'll see this in psychology- one therapist may think an individual has y disorder, and another individual has x disorder, which creates disputes. this is reflective of typcology, which makes sense as it's a branch of psych after all.

See, I keep questioning if the complexity of people can even be captured through this model, as well as debating whether it's real. I do think there are true, real definitions of the models, a model that is the most accurate, and accurate and inaccurate typings for people. I want to get at the core of who I really am, not give a false label. You can't fight who you really are inside. And then I wonder if that's not real, and everything is subjective... it's like a game of pong, and a war between logic and emotion.

are you guys bored?


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## Du Toit (Mar 2, 2014)

I know it's bad to type someone based on what another [insert specific type] person acts like, but you really really sound like my INFP brother. 

A lot of time we're talking, and the conversation will derail into some sort of 4th dimension, having me like "How the hell did we get here ?". It happens a lot, even in school when he has to answer questions. Also, do you ask a lot of questions - even seemingly pointless ones ? I think this has to do with Ne. As a -75% sure- INFJ, there's a clear difference between my brother an I: He likes expanding things into new questions (Ne like), while I like summarizing, synthesizing and compacting. 
Not to mention the fact that he also does that random ''remembering'' thing that annoys me a lot. I hate reminiscing, so when he tells me "I remember when..." I always mentally roll eyes while gazing at him to let him know that I'm at least listening (Thanks to "Fe'').

I'm not 100% sure as I'm not a typing expert (just somewhat skilled at recognizing some functions) but for me I see obvious Fi and Si. @hoopla


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## Deadly Decorum (Feb 23, 2014)

I always listen to people even if I don't care because it's important to them... lol, that's where I don't rule out isfj

I'll ask myself "how did I get here?" And yeah I prefer asking rather than answering questions in general. I asked lots of questions as a kid; I was super curious.


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## The Hungry One (Jan 26, 2011)

@hoopla

I'm not bored. I've just never met an INFP like you before. I can't help but feel like something is being over-complicated. The MBTI can't really capture the essence of an individual; it just measures four preferences and then offers some logically correlated traits ("functions"). Hypothetically, it should be fairly generalized and straightforward.


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## Deadly Decorum (Feb 23, 2014)

The Hungry One said:


> @hoopla
> 
> I'm not bored. I've just never met an INFP like you before. I can't help but feel like something is being over-complicated. The MBTI can't really capture the essence of an individual; it just measures four preferences and then offers some logically correlated traits ("functions"). Hypothetically, it should be fairly generalized and straightforward.


I over complicate everything. Nothing is simple with me.

I never said I was INFP, but it's a possibility I explored. Though... in all honesty yes I do question your accuracy of cognitive functions, not to say that you're incapable or inferior, but there is a lot of crap floating around that doesn't speak of the heart of what Jung stands for. I question most people's understandings here. There are only a few I really trust just through gut feeling, so please don't get offended.

MBTI is not an easy thing to master, imo. So many people are confused about the differences, mix things up, ect. It's not this butterfly fairy that you see for what is; it's a complex, complicated system. It's like love; trying to explain what love is a difficult task because it's a concept and not a reality, as is Jung.

Thank you for your last sentiment. When people say stuff like "no intuitive would ever do" I just view that as so limiting and narrow. You have to look at all the different angles here, the true reason for why a person did a thing, because the reasons behind an action or activity vary for everyone. The individual is extremely multifaceted and complex; it's like how psychiatric labels aren't the core of a person, and simply an outlet of one fraction. It still doesn't remove the inner self. If you have depression, it doesn't explain your whole identity or actions or thoughts or feelings, just specific tendencies, so when people say "you did x because of this diagnosis" I get pretty angry, as if that's all I am and I'm nothing aside from that one specific label. I think MBTI should be viewed as just that; preferences, not identity.

And the problem with a video is, just like mbti, it's not my essence. See discussing experiences felt crucial as it explained why I got through here and am confused with my type. You saw twenty minutes of me, not my whole life or feelings or ideas or thoughts or personality.


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## gzaw (Sep 3, 2013)

You're an obvious INFp (Socionics. INFJ in MBTI).
Ni-Fe-Ti-Se

It's clear you value Fi over Fe. 

Fi is very concerned with the self and identity, whereas you seem to have trouble identifying your own self. Fi is pretty good at understanding itself. People who don't value Fi (e.g. ENTJs and ESTJs) sometimes have a major problem in life where they don't choose activities or choose a life plan that suits their tastes and preferences because they don't know what they want or know who they are.

Also, the Fe is apparent because you don't hide your moodiness. In my experience, INFJs do this a lot and talk a lot about their problems and their anxieties (also, your behavior is nearly identical to the INFJs I've known). Typically, Fi users don't show their moods. Yes, they can be moody, but they generally don't talk about it or show it.

Finally, why get angry about MBTI identifying you? It's liberating. It is an identity. It identifies your strengths and your weaknesses. This information is paramount in order to utilizing your strengths in everyday life so that you get a sense of fulfillment and happiness. For example, strong Te users get enjoyment from working in environments like business and law, but they would not do well as psychologists, and vice versa for Fe users. 

Psychology identifies you no more or less than gender. You could get angry about the fact that you're a boy or a girl, but you can't change it. You have to accept who you are.


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## Deadly Decorum (Feb 23, 2014)

@gzaw

Yay another opinion

Lol I hide my feelings at certain aspects. Online I'm super open. IRL a lot of people tell me I'm bad at expressing my feelings and such or they don't know what I'm feeling? But then I've had some people say I'm super expressive? Subjectivity. But at certain points yeah, I hide my moodiness. I sometimes talk blankly on purpose. Once I asked someone "can you tell I'm pissed right now?" "no." "Thought so." And I'm really good at picking out things that reflect me and my wants well.

but i care a lot about what people think of me/how they view me... pretty external. Fi/Fe is what I'm trying to figure out, and most ppl seem torn themselves.

I guess my self identity is scattered because it's always changing. But when I was young and at certain places of my life I felt acutely self aware. I usually know my own feelings at any place/time. And I'm not in a good place rn... so maybe I'm in some identity crisis thing?

The one thing I was wondering is lots of people seem to see Fe as self sacrifice, so if you believe in independence and letting people make their own choices, what do you call that? Yes, if someone is sick I'll help them. If they're carrying a heavy thing, I will help them. But I dislike when people wipe my ass, and people who expect me to do the same. I think being viewed as the person who does everything for everyone as kinda negative... like I'm more than just the person who gives you cookies and money and hugs?

Also if Fi knows themselves so well why do so many INFPs mistype themselves as INFJ? Maybe it's the fact they think they know that you're getting at?

I'm not angry as much as I view it as not liberating to view it as the sum of who you are. It should be this door to open all this wonderful possibilities, to find new aspects, not "this is who you are and these are the jobs you can have now and the jobs you would suck at." How is that liberating?

Disagree with the gender thing... gender is a concept. Your penis tells you you have a penis, not what gender you are.

I am considering several options but not INFJ because I'm si/ne not ni/se. ISFJ would fit better if Fe is the real thing.


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## Wunderkind (Oct 26, 2014)

My sister is a lovely girl but she also bites fingernails. That's why I noticed. So don't paint them red - it's drawing people's attention to your flaws and does not stop the urge of biting. By the way, there is no problem in biting your fingernails, so don't beat yourself up for that. What you can change instead: just place an eye catcher somewhere else on your outfit. This way, you draw people's (usually terrible) attention somewhere else.


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## The Hungry One (Jan 26, 2011)

@hoopla

What do you question? It might help me improve.

Perhaps the people you agree with share your thinking function. (Or they could just be better-informed, that's also a possibility.)


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## Bugs (May 13, 2014)

MBTI is not going to type you perfectly. Because its not actually about typing _you_ as a whole individual but typing your cognitive functions. This is why mechanics do not typically sell new cars. Of course they know what's going on with the processes in the engine ( MBTI) but they do not capture true value of the vehicle , the driver/buyer does that by wanting or not wanting to buy it. _Who you are_ is completely up to you and not Myers Briggs . In my time studying MBTI I've gradually stepped away from using behavior like ' Do you feel recharged when alone or with people?' or ' Do you cry watching sad movies?' (lol) and focused on what the brain ( not the person as a whole) is actually doing with the described functions.

I, for example , have a lot of what would be considered 'introverted behavior' at some moments and a lot of what would be considered 'extroverted behavior' at other moments. Sometimes I'm absolutely drained by other people other times I'm completely charged up. It's really a question of my mood , who I'm with , and what are we doing. It says nothing about my function. But Ne ( extroverted intuition' as an objective potential and possibility recognizing perceiving function makes a lot of sense to me as opposed to how many friends I have. (lol)

I'm ranting now but seriously , take MBTI with a grain of salt and only apply its descriptions to the cognitive functions it defines , not you as a whole person . If you feel you want further help with recognizing cognitive functions , and not as stereotypical behavior , but as preferences of the frontal cortex of the brain, message me and I'll be glad to help


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## Du Toit (Mar 2, 2014)

The more you write, the more your Fi shines. I hope I'm not bothering at this point, but since you're still wondering I keep reading your posts to see if I was wrong. 
Your analysis of functions says Fi-Ne: We try to put people into boxes (personality type) by pinpointing what mode of cognition they use the most, yet you don't want that; i suppose because despite wanting to know your type, you don't really want to feel pinned to a particular mode of thinking. You want to feel like you can wade through anything as long as you want it hard enough.

I don't know how to put it concisely because I got a brain-fart in the middle of my writing but I hope you get my point.


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