# An interesting thought that will probably make people hate me, but why not



## L (Aug 12, 2011)

I generally do not like children. People say "Oh, what a cute little child' and it just doesn't compute with me, then again, I generally don't see beauty in people in general. Now a beautiful sight like a sunset, or a forest, or something like that I can get behind, dunno bout people though, especially children, guess I'm just weird lol.

There is this one kid that belongs to a worker at a resteraunt that reminds me, everytime I see it, why I do not like children. I didn't like children as a child and I like them even less now that I'm an adult. I plan on getting "fixed" after I move when I get done with my general studies, I do not want children. The thought of having a child scares me more then STD's. Not sure why either.... but they do for some reason. Also, before anybody starts in with this, I am scared of STD's, just children more.

Plus their s'damn fragile, physically and emotionally. They also require inordinate amounts of upkeep, and uber expensive lil things.

I think the reason I think this way is because my own childhood was absolute crap, all the way through high school I attempted suicide more times than I really care to tell anybody. Another reason is that my own mother and grandfather are so childlike that it has caused me to hate them both. The fact that they are ESFJ's also gives me goosebumps when I think about a child of mine being one of their type, just too many negative associations. I just avoid both children and ESFJ's alltogether, saves me a lot of undue stress.

Is anybody else genuinely frightend of children?


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## Juan M (Mar 11, 2011)

You will never raise your own Hitler then? I will, it will be fun... i have INFJ genes in my blood... still dont know what should he hate... mmh Luxemburgo i think.

Also i cannot stop laughing at a mental image of a grow old man scared of childrens.

But beeing serious, a son is a great responsability at your back, and the fact that your parents are ESFJs doesnt make an ESFJ son, who knows? also takin in consideration howFe-Si works maybe can mean that they have a lot of dependency on the context and how do you raise them so its not abig deal.


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## L (Aug 12, 2011)

Juan M said:


> Also i cannot stop laughing at a mental image of a grow old man scared of childrens.


I'm not old, and yeah, I guess it is a little silly, but still....



> But beeing serious, a son is a great responsability at your back, and the fact that your parents are ESFJs doesnt make an ESFJ son, who knows? also takin in consideration howFe-Si works maybe can mean that they have a lot of dependency on the context and how do you raise them so its not abig deal.


I know that I might not have an ESFJ child if I were to have one, but 1/16 of a chance is simply too high.


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## U-80 (Mar 12, 2010)

L_Lawliet said:


> The thought of having a child scares me more then STD's. Not sure why either.... but they do for some reason.


I don't understand why you feel the need to justify it. You're allowed to have preferences. You are you.

I don't like children either and looking into my past I can't detect any logical reason for it. They simply don't interest me and I don't see any point in having them.

Besides, I've met plenty of people who had children and regretted it. That's enough evidence for me.


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## TheBoss (Oct 27, 2011)

Juan M said:


> But beeing serious, a son is a great responsability at your back,


- A daughter isn't?
- He may have daughters...
- 

You are hereby cursed to have many fluffy, pink, pigtailed, daughters.

@L_Lawliet

Usually, an averse to having children is due to subliminal (or not) propaganda during growing up.
"If it weren't for kids I'd have done this and that"
"I suffered to raise me kids"
"You've no idea how hard it is to raise a child"
"You've no idea how hard it is to raise a child properly"
"I am so tired having to take care of the children constantly =((("
"I was put down by people for not not having a career/degree/nobel prize, because I had to raise my child"
and so on.

Add the countless horror stories of accidents, stress, illnesses, etc.
"Oh it was so *insert drama* when it was sick with *insert childhood disease*.
"Omg I still recall the time my child fell off the bike and broke its *insert bone*"

Add the expectations and even the hidden threats.
"I can't wait you make a kid so I laugh at you (you are expected to fail ofc)"
"Raising a child is hard! Do you understand what it takes? It is VERY serious! It is very difficult!"
"All the sacrifices you will have to make!"
"You can't possibly be on the net/hobby/etc and have the child practically _abandoned_!
"What if you are absent for 5 minutes and it DIES?! (You horrible, horrible person.)" 

It is not unusual at all, some people to be very worried, cautious and even avoidant when it comes to children. It is very thorough negative propaganda right there.
_Children are a hard project, they suck out life, they have high level of needs,, of demands, you must stop being you, stop hobbies, stop leisure, stop wanting, become essentially a living zombie, etc._

Oh jee...now I don't want to have kids either. Who would if that was the main line of the propaganda they grew in?


Perhaps, the only silver lining I can suggest, is they are not that fragile. I gave a kick to my dad when I was 4, he never forgot (even though I did). 
And know that because babies are elastic, they somehow surpass falls and accidents, adults can't. And kids can also be very cruel and the opposite of emotional, depending on character.
As for expensive stuff they need, well we know of millions of children raised poor and being happy and fine (am not talking about the dying ones, just the under the poverty).

Push back people's demands. Find a decent balance between what YOU expect and want, what other people bs you you should do and finally, what is truly important for a child (like not being beaten up to a pulp).

Having said all this, I don't think all babies/kids are cute either. Because they ain't. It bugs me to see fugly mishappen babies (the vast majority of the babies are just that: ugly) and have to fake the expected response "aww it is so cute" while thinking "well with a few plastic surgeries when it grows up...."
But that's ok. Ugly, doesn't make bad and you don't have to drop your aesthetics to please anyone if you don't want to. :happy:

Fixing yourself is a tad drastic, don't you think?


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## Impavida (Dec 29, 2011)

Frightened of children? No. 

I'm still never having any though.



TheBoss said:


> -Usually, an averse to having children is due to subliminal (or not) propaganda during growing up.


If there's a study that documents that statement, I would love to see it.

Also, I'm curious as to why you think sterilization is drastic? If a person knows that they don't ever want children, does it not make sense to consider a permanent solution? In the long run, it's cheaper and more effective than dealing with birth control for the rest of your life. For men, especially, it's also insurance against being "oopsed" by an unscrupulous woman.


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## viva (Aug 13, 2010)

I just think it's hilarious when people say they dislike kids, because _everyone_ was a kid once. It's not fully hypocritical, but a bit so. When I was a child, I certainly would not have wanted to be around adults who disliked children. If I grew up to be someone who disliked children, I think that would be a bit contradictory. Like stabbing myself in the back or something.


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## L (Aug 12, 2011)

viva said:


> I just think it's hilarious when people say they dislike kids, because _everyone_ was a kid once.


Yes, and I'm glad I never have to be one ever again.



> It's not fully hypocritical, but a bit so. When I was a child, I certainly would not have wanted to be around adults who disliked children. If I grew up to be someone who disliked children, I think that would be a bit contradictory. Like stabbing myself in the back or something.


What? How is it hypocritical? Just because I was a kid once I automatically have to love other children? You sound like my grandparents "You love your mother because she is your mother". No, that's like saying that you should love all cops because they are cops, even corrupted ones. It's dumb. 

As I said earlier, as a child I hated children, now I just avoid them and dislike them.


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## L (Aug 12, 2011)

jayde said:


> Frightened of children? No.
> 
> I'm still never having any though.
> 
> ...


Probably one of the few things in this life that I'm truly scared of....


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## Impavida (Dec 29, 2011)

@_viva_ Sure I used to be a kid. I used to be a blonde too. I also used to like mushrooms, but now I don't. I don't like going to work either, but I do that every day. What's your point?


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## U-80 (Mar 12, 2010)

Furthermore you should be very suspicious of anyone who tries to convince you that it's bad or immoral to not want children. Because how can it possibly affect them (or anyone else) whether you have children or not? Clearly it's themselves they're trying to convince, not you.


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## TheBoss (Oct 27, 2011)

jayde said:


> If there's a study that documents that statement, I would love to see it.
> 
> Also, I'm curious as to why you think sterilization is drastic?


You make it sound like I have to prove it to you, or is it my idea? The thirteen samples I offered are enough to be a consideration and give food for thought to whoever is interested. If they are not interested is fine, if they can't think is fine too.
It was just an analysis, use your own brain to process whether it is right or wrong. Discard what I said if you conclude I was wrong. You don't need to be told how to think by studies.

As for the drastic, because it is permanent if we exempt the rare cases it can be reversed.



> dras·tic (drstk)
> adj.
> 1. Severe or radical in nature; extreme


Simple no? Blocking a body organ is drastic. There is no way to go back if you change your mind (again with exceptions). Btw, I assumed he was speaking of vasectomy and not of castration. Read about it. It IS drastic.

I am not telling the OP whether to have kids or not. Not even telling him what to do with his body. It's his, I don't care. Sure it is cheaper like you say.
But chances are he will probably regret it based on the most amazing law of all: Murphy's law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 
What if he changes his mind a few years from now?


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## L (Aug 12, 2011)

TheBoss said:


> @<span class="highlight"><i><a href="http://personalitycafe.com/member.php?u=25723" target="_blank">L_Lawliet</a></i></span>
> 
> Usually, an averse to having children is due to subliminal (or not) propaganda during growing up.


 Could be.... don't really recall any of the following things though.


> "If it weren't for kids I'd have done this and that"
> "I suffered to raise me kids"
> "You've no idea how hard it is to raise a child"
> "You've no idea how hard it is to raise a child properly"
> ...


On second thought, I may have heard this one a time or two.



> _Children are a hard project, they suck out life, they have high level of needs,, of demands, you must stop being you, stop hobbies, stop leisure, stop wanting, become essentially a living zombie, etc._


Uh....yea, basically.....



> Perhaps, the only silver lining I can suggest, is they are not that fragile. I gave a kick to my dad when I was 4, he never forgot (even though I did).
> And know that because babies are elastic, they somehow surpass falls and accidents, adults can't. And kids can also be very cruel and the opposite of emotional, depending on character.


All kids are either 1)cruel, or 2)victims of cruelty. That's my observation atleast.



> As for expensive stuff they need, well we know of millions of children raised poor and being happy and fine (am not talking about the dying ones, just the under the poverty).


But I wanna be rich lol, can't really do that while taking care of children.



> Push back people's demands. Find a decent balance between what YOU expect and want, what other people bs you you should do and finally, what is truly important for a child (like not being beaten up to a pulp).


Most children need lots of attention, that's one thing I can't really provide. Then when the crying starts.... I'd probably end up doing something like Brian did:







> Fixing yourself is a tad drastic, don't you think?


The only thing that is 100%. 

Plus, I can always take a few trips to the cryobank and have some frozen. It's like 16 bucks a year or something (researched this about a year ago so number will probably be off).


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## TheBoss (Oct 27, 2011)

L_Lawliet said:


> Plus, I can always take a few trips to the cryobank and have some frozen. It's like 16 bucks a year or something (researched this about a year ago so number will probably be off).


10k and insurances don't cover it.

Thinking anatomy, would you cut blood supply to any part of you without worrying? I'd be too worried it might mess with things I love to have working. I think you haven't researched your option well. Read about the *chronic pain*? What if the surgery fails and messes up with your best body part? Lots of what ifs.
What if one day you love a woman so much to want to keep her? What if she wants babies "just like you"?

What IF....you decide to overpopulate earth and seize control with the help of your offspring minions? EHHHHHHhhh? Ever thought of that?!


ps. bahahaha Brian XD You know, I have actually done that. I was very frowned upon but was worth it.


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## L (Aug 12, 2011)

TheBoss said:


> 10k and insurances don't cover it.


 The number may be somewhat off, but I remember thinking "holy hell...that's incredibly cheap". So I'd pay out of pocket.



> Thinking anatomy, would you cut blood supply to any part of you without worrying? I'd be too worried it might mess with things I love to have working.


I'm a virgin still sooo.....not really worried much about it, not like it gets much use right now as far as other people are concerned.



> I think you haven't researched your option well. Read about the *chronic pain*? What if the surgery fails and messes up with your best body part? Lots of what ifs.


The underlined part I partially covered with the post above. The "best body part" bit though, well it's debateable.... 



> What if one day you love a woman so much to want to keep her? What if she wants babies "just like you"?


I sometimes wonder if I'm not defective and even capable of love. 

If she wants babies just like me then clearly she has not listened to a 3 part lecture about why babies like me would be a bad thing. Starting with the fact that I still battle depression every once in a great while (not nearly as much or as badly as back in high school). I have horrible skin. The only real thing I would have to offer a child is my personality type, which I don't even have the luxury of controlling, and my intelligence/way of seeing the world/etc. which could easily be taught to _any _child regardless of it being mine by blood.



> What IF....you decide to overpopulate earth and seize control with the help of your offspring minions? EHHHHHHhhh? Ever thought of that?!


Adoption would serve me better for that, believe me, I have actually thought of that. I can start training them immediately, and I have much more control over which ones I decide to make mine.



> ps. bahahaha Brian XD You know, I have actually done that. I was very frowned upon but was worth it.


You're a girl though, people would likely want to kill me for doing that....


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## dragonfriend (Feb 24, 2012)

There are many reasons to hate someone but this isn't one of them. I like children but just as long as they aren't mine.


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## Snakecharmer (Oct 26, 2010)

Hmmm.

I didn't want children either, until I got pregnant while in college. That was 19 years ago and I wouldn't change anything - my daughter is an amazing person and it has been incredible to watch her learn and grow and turn into the beautiful young woman she is today. I have a son who is almost 12 and he's adorable, sweet, kind, and wise beyond his years.

I completely understand and respect that some people don't want to have children. I'm just glad I changed my mind about it and wish I could have more (health issues prevented it). I would have missed out on the best part of my life. I can't imagine my life without them. 

One of the things I have really enjoyed about parenting is watching my children grow from being completely dependent on me to gradually becoming autonomous, free-thinking individuals. I've enjoyed the biological and psychological parts of it in addition to everything else. 

Don't let other people's brats scare you off. :laughing:


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## Some Kind of Blue (Dec 14, 2011)

L_Lawliet said:


> I generally do not like children. People say "Oh, what a cute little child' and it just doesn't compute with me, then again, I generally don't see beauty in people in general. Now a beautiful sight like a sunset, or a forest, or something like that I can get behind, dunno bout people though, especially children, guess I'm just weird lol.
> 
> There is this one kid that belongs to a worker at a resteraunt that reminds me, everytime I see it, why I do not like children. I didn't like children as a child and I like them even less now that I'm an adult. I plan on getting "fixed" after I move when I get done with my general studies, I do not want children. The thought of having a child scares me more then STD's. Not sure why either.... but they do for some reason. Also, before anybody starts in with this, I am scared of STD's, just children more.
> 
> ...


Hmm... Do you have like PTSD or whatever? I mean I'm no doctor but it sounds like your bad experiences just keep haunting you. ESFJs are pretty cool, don't shun them completely just because SOME of them gave you bad experiences.


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## FuzzyLittleManPeach (Aug 29, 2011)

Oh dear! You are so young and you are already thinking about getting fixed :x

Something tells me you'll find a partner who feels the same way about kids. 

Alternative - buy some fish.


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## Tyrant (Mar 8, 2012)

I understand exactly what you mean.

Personally, I despise little children, partly because I've had some very bad experiences with them, and because I couldn't bear many aspects of their personalities. I have no problem dealing with older kids, ones that are more mature and can think for themselves, but anything below the age of 12 drives me insane. Similarly, I disliked children even when I was younger, and I still do.

I wasn't really a normal kid. Since the age of 3, I'd play chess alone or with my older brother, and when I wasn't playing chess, I would be drawing, inventing things out of junk, taking things apart, or taking a walk in the woods. I remember my dad was more like a commander than a father, ordering me to do things without giving me a logical reason to why I should do it. The reason he always gave was "Because I said so," and he did this because he didn't think I was old enough to understand logical reasoning. So I grew attached to logic at a very young age, partly in the hopes that he would stop commanding and start treating me like his own kid instead of a soldier. My mom was kind, but she was more of a feeler, and it was difficult for us to understand each other sometimes. When I started going to school, I had this odd feeling of dislike towards the other kids who were illogical, immature, and constantly crying or screaming.

When I got older, these feelings didn't go away. I had bad experiences with my younger cousin, whom everyone loved dearly, but was quite a little devil behind their backs. I'd be sitting in a room, and she would come in, ask what I was doing, get bored, and leave the room. Next thing I know, her mother (my aunt) would come barging in, asking why I kicked her daughter in the stomach, all the while holding my crying cousin by the hand while the kid pointed a finger at me accusingly, yelling "You kicked me in the stomach, I hate you." When her mother is done yelling at me and leaves the room, my cousin would stop crying and start laughing at me. She always did this for fun, and the problem was, every adult I knew believed every single lie she told, and her acting skills were too professional for her age. My own mother didn't even support me. Every time my cousin told one her lies, my mom would give me a look of disapproval, say she was disappointed in me, and go comfort my cousin.


I guess it's no wonder I hate little kids so much.


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## aef8234 (Feb 18, 2012)

They're a lot more awesome than those snooty people in Beverly Hills, just saying.

Then again arguing with them is like arguing with a damned orange, it makes no sense and it's annoying.
..Annoying Oranges.


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## wiarumas (Aug 27, 2010)

I don't mind children - I'm indifferent to other people's kids, but its different when its your own genes. They are essentially little clones of you and they are like balls of clay just waiting to be molded.

My personal attitude on the matter: don't think, just do... especially when you are dealing with future unknowns and the risks have not yet come to reality. I think there is a lot of underestimating of parenting abilities going on in this thread. They aren't that complicated or fragile. Think of how many stupid people out there are capable of raising not one, but multiple children (and before someone gives me the pessimistic argument of that being a reason not to have kids let me say that it reinforces my desire to have kids to bring some order to the scale). Even if you do a terrible job, chances are they will end up relatively fine.

Take @Tyrant as a case study for example. Despite his emotional issues from childhood, he claimed he still played chess, drew, and built things out of junk. Not too shabby if you ask me - if my son did those things I would be excited. And the fact that he can post coherently on the internet means he is relatively well off in the human species and his parents did a good enough job.

There is that element of compensation when you are an parent to make up for your own parents' shortcomings. For example, I'd bet if Tyrant were to be a parent, he would play chess, draw, and help his son build things out of junk. Sort of to seek closure in his child's needs from his own desires from when he was a kid.

I didn't have much growing up in poverty, but my mom was a very loving mother (despite being abused physically and mentally in her childhood) and my father spent a lot of time with me PUSHING me in sports, school, etc (despite the fact his father died of a heart attack at an early age leaving him fatherless). Now, I don't know what I'll be like as a parent, but I do know that money is high on my list of priorities - so I can provide financial stability as a parent. 

I'm not trying to talk anybody into having kids, but the concept of selectively eliminating yourself from existance is foreign to me. I'm built for survival through and through. I want my genes continue to be strong and competitive in every manner (physical, mental, financial, etc).

Kids cost a lot of money? Make more money.
Kids require a lot of attention? Marry someone who will be a good mother, have the financial means to hire a nanny, or both.
Have bad genes? Marry someone with good genes, have financial means to have good insurance.

Funny enough, it basically comes down to being able to provide for kids and selecting a good mate, which are essentially universal drivers in sexual attraction.


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## Playful Proxy (Feb 6, 2012)

It does not bother me on your views, but I would not get yourself fixed this early on in your life. I would just not try to have kids and as you age, if your mind changes, you would still have the physical ability to have kids. Besides, they most likely will turn out like you. I have heard many times than INTP's have a habit of raising more INTP's just because of how relaxed we are.


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## A_D_Cloudsurfer (Aug 30, 2011)

I didn't like children until I had one. I suppose It was because most were spoiled or lacked parenting. Now I have a soft spot for them.


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## Mokona (Feb 8, 2010)

viva said:


> I just think it's hilarious when people say they dislike kids, because _everyone_ was a kid once. It's not fully hypocritical, but a bit so.


This argument is completely irrelevant. I always hear it when I say that children are stupid and make no sense. "But you were a child too! Someone had to take care of _you_! Ha! What do you have to say now?"

Like this changes anything. My parents wanted me so they had me; it's not my fault nor my responsibility that they had to care for me. I'm not a child anymore, I'm intelligent and I make sense. What's your point again?

This argument is even more stupid when I actually compare myself to those kids. Usually the only children I hate are the loud attention whores, and I have been given to understand (on more that several occasions) that I was a very quiet child who minded her own business and could be kept entertained with a piece of ribbon for 3 hours. My mother's words.



Era said:


> Furthermore you should be very suspicious of anyone who tries to convince you that it's bad or immoral to not want children. Because how can it possibly affect them (or anyone else) whether you have children or not? Clearly it's themselves they're trying to convince, not you.


True to the core.

Most people want others to have children because they a) are jealous that they themselves have children that take up all their time and child-less people are just too happy with their lives b) because they realized that raising a child is no bed of roses and they need to convince themselves that they made the right choice, which is especially difficult when they see child-less people having time, hobbies and their own cool lives.

From time to time I go on fora where people debate having children. You would not believe how much anger, spite and hate comes from those that have children towards those who don't want to. Everything from "you will regret it later in life" through "you egoistic bastards who are incapable of love and care only for themselves!" to "a woman who does not have children is not a real woman." I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw it. I never realized people with children were so bitter about their choice.

I don't want to have children and I'm always being patronized by my family. "You'll understand when you grow up," they used to say. Well, I did grow up and nothing's changed. I guess that now instead of being immature and childish I'm simply abnormal and sociopathic, or something.

I have very good reasons for not wanting children. When I was a child myself I hated them because they were always loud, dirty attention whores who always got what they wanted because they were younger. I could never understand this logic. Being younger is not an achievement; it does not make you more worthy of anything; it does not make you deserve better treatment; it's completely irrelevant to anything. I could never comprehend why on Earth the younger ones were admired, loved, cherished and given whatever they wanted when there clearly was nothing about them worthy such admiration. I remember when a cousin was born in my family. Up to that time I was the one most admired, because I had excellent grades, I was intelligent, bright and generally a little "genius in making". When the cousin was born everyone just sort of forgot about me during family parties and swooned over her. I was too young to comprehend anything close to maternal instinct, so I didn't understand what had happened. She wasn't more intelligent and didn't have better grades; all she did was cry and poop. So why?  Yes, I was jealous, but I think You can understand where that jealousy came from.

And now I just don't want children because I have so much to do in my life that I have no time to raise a child. Also I dread childbirth. Also I have no maternal instinct. Also I hate the thought of being with someone 24/7. Also I have my own life and my own problems to care about, I don't need another life on my hands. Also... and so on.

Although I think it will be super hard to find a life partner with this attitude. Men in my country usually want children, because well, why wouldn't they? They just have sex and then wait for their genes to come to life, then mostly the mother takes care of the child. Hell, even _I_ would want children if I was a man. It wouldn't change my life anywhere as drastically as my wife's, but I would have my own child to have fun with, so why not?


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## hylogenesis (Apr 26, 2012)

I don't know that I'm frightened of _them_ so much as I'm frightened of interacting with them and trying to get on their level...

That, and they are noisy, too dependent, require constant feeding...you know. Plus I feel like if I touch them they're going to fall apart, or if I talk to them I'll say something controversial and have them asking questions (which'd be fine--I wouldn't mind that scenario if not for the next one...) and then an angry parent would be coming after me with a hacksaw and suing me for suggesting there might be something to gay marriage, evolution, and open-source data...

I've also heard that childbirth is very painful (so, no thank you...)...and actually, now that I think about it, I was once called something along the lines of a terrible person because I compared a growing fetus to a parasite...but it _is_ how it works...

I'm actually considering getting my uterus totally removed so I never have to worry about accidental offspring. Say I get raped and don't have a choice in the matter--at least I won't get knocked up. And maybe they can use my discarded uterus for something.


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## DeductiveReasoner (Feb 25, 2011)

^^^I agree with the above post!^^^^^

I don't generally like children, but I somehow managed to end up surrounded by a bunch of them the other day (community service project) and ended up having the time of my life! It felt good to be six again. The thing about kids is, you don't have to try to impress them. They'll (usually) like you for just about anything. They just want your approval. Also, it's fun to teach them new stuff, sometimes.

In general, kids do stress me out. They're really demanding, in the sense that you have to devote so much attention to them, which means I can't pay attention to my thoughts, thus getting agitated. Crying babies also freak me out. They've been known to trigger my anxiety attacks.

As for having my own kids, unless I marry some wholesome, good-hearted INFJ, I don't think it's a good idea. They'd probably end up like evil geniuses, trying to take over the world. For some reason Stewie Griffin comes to mind, lol.


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## LadyO.W.BernieBro (Sep 4, 2010)

Frightened, no.

I like kids. i get that some people don't but honestly the people I've met who really dislike them are always the ones bringing it up.

I'm a woman with no kids and nobody (especially not a boss) ever asks me about it. Tons of the married women I've known over 30 didn't have any, it's becoming very common.


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## Lucky AcidStar (Apr 23, 2012)

This thread makes me feel weird. I've always wanted to raise kids, unfortunately it is a physical impossibility for me to be a stay at home mom hehe


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