# Туре ме | Sι οr ฑι



## Dangerose (Sep 30, 2014)

Ok, I was starting to suck the life force out of @alittlebear's thread so I decided to make a thread of my own. I am confident that I am a Fe-dom but I do not know which kind. I am going to be using questions from Socionics questionnaires because they are less boring, but I am not looking for a Socionics response.


> Is there a meaning of life? In what? Is it the same for everybody?


Yes. A meaning of life exists -- the best I can give you at the moment is '42'. But the very fact that we have a concept of meaning means that meaning exists. To quote Antoine de St.Exupery, "If one wants a sheep it is proof that he exists". I would speak of the meaning of life in religious terms, God is the meaning of life -- but only in the sense that God is that factor which infuses everything with meaning. And when I say meaning, I am thinking of Truth -- Beauty, Truth, and Perfection.



> What should be done so people can be happy?


There's no point doing anything so people can be happy. People will always find a way to be unhappy, if they are not satisfied. To quote Taylor Swift, "Band-aids don't fix bullet holes". People must learn to find _joy_, they must be at peace with God, must be close to Truth, they must be Good, or they will not be happy at all. But happiness is just an emotion, like sadness or anger. It is one-dimensional. You can have false happiness, but joy is lasting and true.

Happiness is overrated.



> In the situations with a lot of potential and volatility will you trust your own guts, logically calculating everything or will you ask people you trust what should be done?


It depends. It depends on who it involves. I am likely to ask people for advice regarding myself, so if it is an important decision for me, I will want others to make it for me. If it for the good of someone else, or a group, I will trust myself much more. 


> When you meet a stranger, what can you say about them right away? How do you know what this person is all about? Does it take long to understand someone's talents?


In the first five or ten seconds I've met someone, I will probably have answered the following questions (probably in order):

"Do I find this person attractive (sexually)? Are they a potential romantic interest?" 
"Do I find this person attractive (personality-wise)? Do they have a magnetic presence?"
"Is this person a 'kindred spirit'? Are they like me?"
"Do I trust this person? Should I be afraid of them?"
"What social class does this person occupy? Should I show them a special level of respect?"
"What is their level of intelligence?"
"What is the quality of their soul?"




> Remember an interesting person and call out 5-6 qualities you think are interesting in them. What makes an interesting person? Are you an interesting person? Why? What if someone calls you "boring" and "not interesting"?


Interesting..how? I mean, everyone's kinda interesting. I can't think of any 'especially interesting' people I know. I mean, they don't exist, but I don't really have that as a category in my mind.
Um...I really don't know. 

What makes someone interesting?

To quote Parks and Rec:
"He's dark and mysterious, he can sing and he plays the organ."
"I think you just described the Phantom of the Opera".








Usually the qualities that make people interesting are difficult to sum up easily. But the Phantom of the Opera is definitely interesting. Due to the qualities of, "Intelligent, ultimately redeemable, devoted to music, mysterious, tragic". 
In real life...I don't know. It's a case-by-case thing.

I'm not that interesting. I think I'm too much of an open book to be very interesting. More whiny and...obvious than a truly interesting person is. I don't mind if people think I'm boring. There are worse things to be.

*What opinions, from people who know you, seem: a) fair; b) not fair; c) hurtful; d) strange.*

a. Fair -- That I'm selfish -- I suppose it is true
b. Not fair -- that I don't think of anyone but myself. It's just not true. Controlling? I guess some people see me as controlling. I don't think it's really true.
c. I'm not sure. People are usually not very hurtful to me. I'm more hurt by hearing no opinion than by hearing a harsh one.
d. I think the image I have accidentally fostered is a little strange. People see me as a sort of 'perfect naive girl' thing which...I don't think it has a lot of basis in reality. I think they take things about me and attach them to another idea they know, which is sometimes accurate but often misses the mark. For instance...I think they see me as a classic 'bookworm' girl because I've read a lot of books, but in truth it's because I want to be well-read, they don't know my family and realize that being well-read is one of the most important things, that I was surrounded by really highly literate people through most of my childhood, so they think I'm a quirky nerd, which is almost opposite of the truth. It's hard to put into words, but that sort of thing. I'm constantly surprised by what boxes people put me in. Not because I mind them, because they seem like the wrong boxes. 



> Do you fantasize? What kind of fantasies do you have?












Yes, I do (not in the weird way though  ) mostly like...IDK, I can give you a couple of examples:

"You become a famous actress because obvs and then you meet...Will Arnett and the two of you fall in love? But he was divorced, you can't marry a divorced man. So you avoid him but through the strength of your friendship you bring him to God and even though it's quite tragic everything is ok at the end"

"Tom Hiddleston stars in the blockbuster movie version of your book because obvs and you fall in love and get engaged, but then you accidentally say something politically incorrect or something and the public is practically lynching you, for some reason they're like 'If Tom marries this horrible girl we will boycott everything he's in' and so you publicly announce that he actually broke up with you and secretly leave the ring at his house with a nice letter and fly away to France and live in a little cottage there and you are very sad but you know you did the right thing and he is very upset and can never find you but eventually moves on with his life"

(In the original version it was a more difficult choice because we were already married and I think I had to choose suicide but I finally decided it was a bit extreme and not very fun)


> What qualities should a person have to be successful and why?


The ability to put themselves over others.
Which is why I don't value success.



> What qualities can stop a person from being successful and why?


Being a decent person probably. 



> What is more important in life – to be a good person or be a successful one? Why? Is a good person always successful? If not, then why?


A good person of course. Goodness is the only thing that matters. You always have to choose the qualitative over the quantitative.

*Can you line up human resources and make them do things? What methods do you use? Can you press people? If so, how does it happen?*

'Human resources'...people? Mm..I don't think I ever have? I'm good at like...controlling large groups of children and getting them to behave. I'm not sure I'm amazing at getting people to do what I want, but I don't often try to. 



> What is incursion? How do you deal with this? Can you repulse? How easy can you do it?


Incursion -- being invaded? Like, if my privacy is being invaded? I tell people to go away or I distract them with something shiny (most of my experience is with children and people with mental disabilities (Alzheimer's, etc) so..I don't know. Can I repulse? I mean, if I want people to go away I'll make them go away with a cold glare or an expression of being distracted or something.


> What does "my people" and "strangers" mean? When do "my people" become "strangers" and why?


My people -- my family, my friends, people who I've drawn into my fold, people who I perceive to be like me, of the same substance. Strangers -- people who are not in that group, other people. "Them". "My people" simply cannot become "strangers".



> Are there strategies of attack? Can you use them? When is it justified?[/QUOTE
> 
> In social situations or in war? Let's say social situations since I'm not in the military.
> Attack Step 1: Light hint "Have you considered it from this angle?"
> ...


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

Just subscribing...mostly
Personally,I just can't imagine you as an ESFJ anymore but that's based on Socionics so I'm gonna keep my mouth shut till I find something useful to say


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## 68097 (Nov 20, 2013)

I don't have time right now, but I'll subscribe and come back later.


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

Subscribing.


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## Apple Pine (Nov 27, 2014)

Interested in Ni vs Si too.

*It depends. It depends on who it involves. I am likely to ask people for advice regarding myself, so if it is an important decision for me, I will want others to make it for me. If it for the good of someone else, or a group, I will trust myself much more. *

Perhaps Si over Ni. When you have to make an important decision, you use your Ne, see many possibilities - you get confused, can't predict how it will go? Also, you probably can't relate that to any of your past experience, and that is why you are lost trying to make that decision. However, you trust yourself when you try to help someone, as you possibly relate their issue to your experience, which you highly trust.


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## Socratic1 (Oct 30, 2013)

Will come back. I skimmed a bit, and perhaps this is too soon of a judgment, but I got a bit of an Fi vibe. But of course you know yourself best. Why do you believe you are an Fe-dom?


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## Pressed Flowers (Oct 8, 2014)

Posting to subscribe!


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## Barakiel (May 20, 2014)

Wait, so you're not decided on your type? Alright then, may as well subscribe.


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## 68097 (Nov 20, 2013)

You poor thing; so many subscribers and not very many with original thoughts / insights to share based off the original thread that might open up discussion.

I plan on responding in depth -- in assessing you from this as well as our previous interactions, but I want to wait until I have more time to do so. At the moment, we are hauling four dead trees off our property that were cut down yesterday, leaving the most horrific mess. I am literally at beck 'n' call, waiting to hear the tractor / truck and trailer pull up so that I can help re-load. And, being Fe, I can't just walk away or disappear for good, or I feel guilty at my family laboring without me under the hot sun. (Plus, who would keep my brother from killing himself with the chainsaw without me there to nag him to be careful? LOL)

So... in the words of Terminator: I'LL BE BACK.


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## 68097 (Nov 20, 2013)

Okay, I read through your post.

I actually do think ESFJ is on the table, and here's why: I get a general sense of Si from you, more than Ni. I'm not talking about throughout our previous interactions, either, but in this post. It's very thoughtful and abstracting at times, but it seems as if you are inclined to surface evaluations before you begin abstracting. You also seem to have a sense of ... awareness about how society and the world works, and you are comfortable with it to some extent -- which I see in other Si types, and also in myself. It's like we have tapped into eternal truths and ingested them, so we are part of them, and are not as disturbed by them as more idealistic types because ... this is how life is.

For example, one of my Ni-dom friends is endlessly frustrated that people fight with one another, and tear apart what God meant to stay together -- they end relationships and walk away, because in his mind, relationships are eternal, unending, and should exist for as long as either party is breathing and beyond. It literally pains him when a relationship ends, because it is fundamentally not right. People should not move away, grow out of one another, sever ties unpleasantly -- that is WRONG. It is SO WRONG to him. He will go on, endlessly, for months, about how this is NOT how it should be. He cannot accept it. He cannot wrap his mind around it. Its very wrongness preoccupies him endlessly.

I just stare at him and say, "People die. Move away. Grow out of one another. That's life."

And he can't fathom that, because it's... WRONG. But I know that's simply how life is, and we may as well accept it. He will never accept it. Never stop being angry about it. Never relinquish his idealism for "how things are done." 

That post I quoted recently that you gave in response to @arkigos, about how some people are made to suffer and there is no explanation for it -- that is so profoundly Si, utterly devoid of Ni-idealism or abstraction. It is, quite simply: this is life. It sucks, but we deal with it. That's how my worldview works. We fight to change what we can and accept what we cannot. 

Your comment about how you are not beautiful seems like Fe objectivity to me. You are measuring yourself against external standards of beauty, what the world says about beauty, and finding yourself lacking. I should know. I do that constantly. "I am not as skinny as THIS, so I am not beautiful. I have moles, so I am not beautiful. My jaw is square, so I am not beautiful. My hair is thin and wispy and a weird color, so I am not beautiful." I look at other people, and determine, by objective standards of social beauty, if THEY are beautiful. I think it's Fe, but a dark, rather dreadful corner of Fe. 

But, I could be wrong. Ne always accepts the possibility that my first, second, or even third guess may not be accurate.
@arkigos, I know you've tangled with her before, but does this questionnaire response seem Si to you?


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## Pressed Flowers (Oct 8, 2014)

@Night Huntress I'm going to tag you... because you determined that @Oswin was ENFj in Socionics, and I think that you see things in her that others have not realized. I understand if you don't want to join in here, but I think your points could be very useful in getting to the bottom of her type.


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## Psychopomp (Oct 3, 2012)

Does anyone see any Ni in the OP at all? I sure don't. 

To me, it seems shockingly clear that this person is not an Ni. 

Lots of indication of Si.. that is, impressionistic and abstract sensory-based perception. Unattainably idyllic and impression-based sensory images being a point of focus. Also, a fair amount of mythological (and stereo/arche-typal) thinking. 

If I typed just on the OP, I'd call ISFJ. ESFJ isn't impossible. 

But, we all know how I feel.


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## 68097 (Nov 20, 2013)

arkigos said:


> But, we all know how I feel.


Yes. EVERYONE IS AN ISFJ!!

Though here, I agree with you. I think she's too extroverted to be Si-dom ("I can't stand being at home for more than a few hours" she said elsewhere) but ... Si.

Come back to us, OP. Come back to the land of PotO-adoring Christine Daee wannabees.


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## Dangerose (Sep 30, 2014)

woogiefox said:


> Interested in Ni vs Si too.
> 
> *It depends. It depends on who it involves. I am likely to ask people for advice regarding myself, so if it is an important decision for me, I will want others to make it for me. If it for the good of someone else, or a group, I will trust myself much more. *
> 
> Perhaps Si over Ni. When you have to make an important decision, you use your Ne, see many possibilities - you get confused, can't predict how it will go? Also, you probably can't relate that to any of your past experience, and that is why you are lost trying to make that decision. However, you trust yourself when you try to help someone, as you possibly relate their issue to your experience, which you highly trust.


Thank you for commenting! When I was typing this particular answer I was thinking...ugh, this is just Fe. Which might be closer to the mark. I think it's more that...I don't really trust myself to see my own situations objectively. I don't know how to help myself because I am myself. But I can look at other people and say, "That guy would benefit from doing some genuine hard work, he should sign up at a factory for a period" or "This girl is too immature to be dating right now, she needs to figure things out before she involves other people with her". Which....yeah, I just advised one of my friends to break up with her 'boyfriend' because she is clearly too immature and leading the guy on unintentionally, which I truly feel is justified and correct, but I would not be able to give that judgment to myself because...I would not be seeing it from that perspective.



Socratic1 said:


> Will come back. I skimmed a bit, and perhaps this is too soon of a judgment, but I got a bit of an Fi vibe. But of course you know yourself best. Why do you believe you are an Fe-dom?


I've played with the judging axes a bit and I'm pretty well decided on being Fe-dom. But if anyone wants to make a case for Fi I'm open to it)


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

alittlebear said:


> @_Night Huntress_ I'm going to tag you... because you determined that @_Oswin_ was ENFj in Socionics, and I think that you see things in her that others have not realized. I understand if you don't want to join in here, but I think your points could be very useful in getting to the bottom of her type.


I'm also curious about this typing.


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## Dangerose (Sep 30, 2014)

@angelcat, @arkigos, thank you) There's something about Si that just doesn't 'click' with me, it's probably not an actual Si thing, just like...I'm so bad at making paper snowflakes, or crafts of any sort, there's this great fuzziness that happens somewhere on the route between the instructions, me, and the object, which I haven't really seen with strong Si users, but it _could_ be Te-influenced as well. Especially being ESFJ...I feel like I lack that _thing_ that ESFJs often have, a very communicable ease. As for Ni...I'm still not even sure what Ni is, so it makes sense that I don't use it)

Anyways, I may well be returning very soon to the land of POTO-adoring Christine Daae-wannabees. I'll just have to put my head in order again)


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## 68097 (Nov 20, 2013)

Oswin said:


> @angelcat, @arkigos, thank you) There's something about Si that just doesn't 'click' with me, it's probably not an actual Si thing, just like...I'm so bad at making paper snowflakes, or crafts of any sort, there's this great fuzziness that happens somewhere on the route between the instructions, me, and the object, which I haven't really seen with strong Si users, but it _could_ be Te-influenced as well. Especially being ESFJ...I feel like I lack that _thing_ that ESFJs often have, a very communicable ease. As for Ni...I'm still not even sure what Ni is, so it makes sense that I don't use it)
> 
> Anyways, I may well be returning very soon to the land of POTO-adoring Christine Daae-wannabees. I'll just have to put my head in order again)


Pfft. Being Si doesn't mean you're automatically a master scrap-booker or whatever. I happen to hate doing stuff like that. Knitting? Meh. Scrapbooking? That was fun for all of ten minutes, then I got bored and went back to fantasizing about stuff in my head.

I have to look four times before adding salt to a recipe, because I was floating in the ether and can't remember things for more than three seconds. So if that's the only thing holding you back -- kick it aside. I marvel at people who can actually remember what they read five minutes ago, much less five years ago. 

Did that recipe say a half cup, or a fourth cup?


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## Dangerose (Sep 30, 2014)

angelcat said:


> Pfft. Being Si doesn't mean you're automatically a master scrap-booker or whatever. I happen to hate doing stuff like that. Knitting? Meh. Scrapbooking? That was fun for all of ten minutes, then I got bored and went back to fantasizing about stuff in my head.
> 
> I have to look four times before adding salt to a recipe, because I was floating in the ether and can't remember things for more than three seconds. So if that's the only thing holding you back -- kick it aside. I marvel at people who can actually remember what they read five minutes ago, much less five years ago.
> 
> Did that recipe say a half cup, or a fourth cup?


Ah, it really is a club of Christine Daae wannabees))

I'm also unsure about some of my seemingly Se behavior, but I guess that could be Si in some way too.
I feel like I recourse to Se. For instance -- I go driving -- because it's the only thing I can ever think of doing -- and I usually end up going on the same roads, which is boring, but...I guess I get stuck in a rut easily. :/ Which is likely pure Si. Even though...it _feels_ kinda Se, it's not doing anything new or such...
And I do have a sentimental attachment to the past. And some other typically SJ things.
Ok, ESFJ is seeming likely)


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## Barakiel (May 20, 2014)

I'm willing to agree with the people saying ESFJ, although the weird thing is that I got no function vibes from you, perhaps it's due to Socionics being different in their questionaires, but it's very strange.


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

Barakiel said:


> I'm willing to agree with the people saying ESFJ, although the weird thing is that I got no function vibes from you, perhaps it's due to Socionics being different in their questionaires, but it's very strange.


I agree!
I'm getting EIE but not much more


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## Dangerose (Sep 30, 2014)

...probably my fault for choosing a Socionics questionnaire...


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## Barakiel (May 20, 2014)

Oswin said:


> ...probably my fault for choosing a Socionics questionnaire...


Yup. Although the fact that @Living dead is in the same boat as me with being unable to pin anything down, probably says that it's not the fault of the questionaire. :wink:


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## Dangerose (Sep 30, 2014)

Barakiel said:


> Yup. Although the fact that @Living dead is in the same boat as me with being unable to pin anything down, probably says that it's not the fault of the questionaire. :wink:


argghhh :angry:
Ok, leaning ESFJ but if anyone has questions they feel would help make my perceiving axis clear, I will answer)
interesting that it's now 'judger smilies'


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## Immolate (Mar 8, 2015)

I see Si in your focus on external beauty and comfort (wanting to be beautiful and create beautiful things, the way you approach clothing, your description of comfort and coziness involves the sound of rain and even cookies). I didn't read your post in full, but this was my overall impression.

I enjoy your humor, btw


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## 68097 (Nov 20, 2013)

Oswin said:


> Ah, it really is a club of Christine Daae wannabees))
> 
> I'm also unsure about some of my seemingly Se behavior, but I guess that could be Si in some way too.
> I feel like I recourse to Se. For instance -- I go driving -- because it's the only thing I can ever think of doing -- and I usually end up going on the same roads, which is boring, but...I guess I get stuck in a rut easily. :/ Which is likely pure Si. Even though...it _feels_ kinda Se, it's not doing anything new or such...
> ...


Yes, that seems very Si.

Are you positive you are an extrovert? I mean, I know that you can't stand being home for all that long, but -- have you always been that way or could it be a recent bout of extroversion?


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## Dangerose (Sep 30, 2014)

angelcat said:


> Yes, that seems very Si.
> 
> Are you positive you are an extrovert? I mean, I know that you can't stand being home for all that long, but -- have you always been that way or could it be a recent bout of extroversion?


I'm pretty sure? I mean, I've never enjoyed just...sitting. I also don't think my Ti is higher than my Ne.


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## Dangerose (Sep 30, 2014)

Ok) ESFJ it is)


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## Vermillion (Jan 22, 2012)

@_Oswin_

Yep, I'm still seeing ENFJ from this questionnaire.

I think reasons for Fe dom have been done to death, really... so I'll just focus on why I see Ni-Se.

a) Her views on time. I've written about this before, and I think it's very important to focus on how she sees time, because Ni isn't labeled the "intuition of time" for no reason. It's a very Ni thing to do to talk about time as a "river" or "current" along which we get swept. That's how they are so attuned to the future and able to tell how things turn out in the grand scheme of the world, because their method of perception is focused on the flow of the river of time and the various eternal, transcendent symbolism that persists through it. This is also why they dualize with Se types, who don't feel like life is something that simply sweeps them along, but view the world in terms of their goals and desires, and are known for their determination to shatter time and fate and anything that stands in their way to the goal. 



> I feel time as a current, you can't fight against it but maybe you can transcend it in moments. You can kill time, by not appreciating it while it's here, by not realizing that you're alive.


^The above is extremely Ni-Se. It illustrates the axis in terms of both its aspects: both the undercurrent of life, and the moments and brilliant experiences that bring the feeling of life to the forefront.

In contrast, an Si type would see time in terms of the concrete value it has: a method to measure the lifespan of events. An ESFJ especially would have Ni as their vulnerable function, which means they're gonna be very uncomfortable about dealing with time and how to perceive its flow. Si-Ti types normally view time as malleable and ESxJs in particular would express a lot more insecurity with time than she does.

b) Her questionnaire is packed with symbolism. She always goes back to overarching concepts, whatever she talks about. When she talks about time, she wants to bring out the flow of life. When she talks about beauty, she talks about awe and truth. Really, that paragraph is so lovely and poignant, because she wants to embrace an abstraction, an archetype... she wants to become Beauty. This is Ni, because Ni feasts on these symbolic archetypes. Si, in contrast, wouldn't talk about concepts beyond human grasp when referring to archetypes. It would focus on beautiful images that it perceives as "classical" beauty to describe a physical experience that encapsulates that feeling. 

This is from @_Caelestis_' questionnaire, they're an Si type (using you as an example here Caelestis):



> Hmm, this is an interesting question. Beauty is many things. Beauty is the hazy fog after a plentiful rain during the dry summer, the dew drops on the leaves, the smell of dampness and refreshment of the earth. It is both aesthetic and emotional satisfaction. But beauty is also the blood on the snow, the dead deer that lies still therein, and the pack of wolves ravenously enjoying their kill.


c) She described, in her earlier questionnaire, being vividly uncomfortable with physical sensations, such as temperature and so on. She prefers instead to adopt a more goal-oriented attitude. This is very clearly Se valued over Si, because Se typically ignores discomfort and physical harmony in the face of goals and desires. And discomfort with these physical sensations could also point to Si as her vulnerable function (found in ENxJs)

@_angelcat_ Ni types are some of the best people to go to when you simply want to accept the flow of life and how things turn out. They're not likely to sit around and fret about how the natural erosion of time is "wrong". So I don't think the example you used is a correct example of an Ni type's general attitude. Decrying things as wrong and unacceptable seems to me more like F-dom.

Moreover, not knowing how to make your life more interesting, being stuck in a rut... it's important to question WHY these things happen. They're not automatically Si.


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## 68097 (Nov 20, 2013)

Night Huntress said:


> @_angelcat_ Ni types are some of the best people to go to when you simply want to accept the flow of life and how things turn out. They're not likely to sit around and fret about how the natural erosion of time is "wrong". So I don't think the example you used is a correct example of an Ni type's general attitude. Decrying things as wrong and unacceptable seems to me more like F-dom.


I was trying to find an example that avoided the typical Ni "seeing people's futures" stereotypes. I should have just gone with that, because... he can. To a frightening degree. He spends a few minutes with people, and "knows" their core self, and is rarely wrong. It is not the natural erosion of time, however, that frustrates him -- you mistook me. It is the WRONGNESS of reality itself; it is a refusal to accept things 'as they are' and 'have always been' in favor of striving to bring about, in the future, a more idealistic reality. 

The Ni-dom mentioned is a looping Ni/Fi type, by the way, and an Enneagram 4.


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## Vermillion (Jan 22, 2012)

angelcat said:


> I was trying to find an example that avoided the typical Ni "seeing people's futures" stereotypes. I should have just gone with that, because... he can. To a frightening degree. He spends a few minutes with people, and "knows" their core self, and is rarely wrong. It is not the natural erosion of time, however, that frustrates him -- you mistook me. It is the WRONGNESS of reality itself; it is a refusal to accept things 'as they are' and 'have always been' in favor of striving to bring about, in the future, a more idealistic reality.
> 
> The Ni-dom mentioned is a looping Ni/Fi type, by the way, and an Enneagram 4.


Then that is not related to Ni. That is a characteristic of the Enneagram frustration triad (1,4,7), and not an Ni motivation in itself. As such, I don't think that example of wrongness and idealism should be used to determine whether Oswin is Si or Ni, because it doesn't embody Ni in itself.


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## 68097 (Nov 20, 2013)

Night Huntress said:


> Then that is not related to Ni. That is a characteristic of the Enneagram frustration triad (1,4,7), and not an Ni motivation in itself. As such, I don't think that example of wrongness and idealism should be used to determine whether Oswin is Si or Ni, because it doesn't embody Ni in itself.


Fine. Party on.


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## Deadly Decorum (Feb 23, 2014)

angelcat said:


> Pfft. Being Si doesn't mean you're automatically a master scrap-booker or whatever. I happen to hate doing stuff like that. Knitting? Meh. Scrapbooking? That was fun for all of ten minutes, then I got bored and went back to fantasizing about stuff in my head.
> 
> I have to look four times before adding salt to a recipe, because I was floating in the ether and can't remember things for more than three seconds. So if that's the only thing holding you back -- kick it aside. I marvel at people who can actually remember what they read five minutes ago, much less five years ago.
> 
> Did that recipe say a half cup, or a fourth cup?


I would actually say this is stereotypical lol.

The disconnection with reality is an aspect of Si that is not spoken about enough. We're typically floaty, spacy, ethereal folk too pure for this world. It's toxic, and we want to detoxify it. Everything is all wrong. Wrong wrong wrong. Or too fast. We want to slow everything down and make life the way it should be.
@Oswin I'm not sure if you could tell, but the story I wrote about you? It was my depiction of you as an Si dominate. I always thought you were a strong Si type.... originally ESFJ, but Si dom I could see. I'll briefly summarize my conclusion:

You're out of touch with objective reality. The way things are... it's very black and white to you. You know it and can sense it and it irritates you to see others skew onto a directive path that contradicts your standards. Life would be simpler if we lived the way we *should* live.

You're like an Ni if Ni focused on sensory rather than conceptual interpretations.


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## Dangerose (Sep 30, 2014)

(At the current moment, I don't have anything particular to say, but your responses have been read and I'm working on deciding which do apply to me and which do not. Not sure what to think at the moment. Thank you))


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## Deadly Decorum (Feb 23, 2014)

Night Huntress said:


> Ni types are some of the best people to go to when you simply want to accept the flow of life and how things turn out. They're not likely to sit around and fret about how the natural erosion of time is "wrong". So I don't think the example you used is a correct example of an Ni type's general attitude. Decrying things as wrong and unacceptable seems to me more like F-dom.


I won't debate this in depth, as the two of us use different systems (Jungian/MBTI analysis VS Socionics) but as you stated before, you have to discover the how, not the what. Why is she decrying things as wrong or unacceptable? Yes, Fe probably plays a role in her case, but if you define Si as personal sensory impressions that are disconnected from objective reality, it wouldn't be hard to see how an Si might decry anything that deflects their personal view of the world as wrong or unacceptable. Wrong does not have to pertain to mortality; it's all about context.

What is "right and wrong" to her often seems removed from reality. Check out her example of what's "in poor taste". What she considers wrong is based on sensory observations, not mortality, or even judgment of any kind. If you ask me, it's Si. Doesn't sound like one who soaks up objective reality in all of it's forms, but rather one who rejects any sort of stimulus that doesn't reflect her internal sensory checklist.

I also find it interesting she strikes you as the type who would accept the flow of life and how it turns out. I don't get that impressions at all. Some choice quotes that seem to contradict such a statement:



> 'Surprise we're going to Morocco' -- depends. It'll probably be cool, but if I don't feel prepared to go to Morocco and haven't gotten the opportunity to research, learn about Morocco, learn some Arabic, etc. I'll probably feel a bit like a deer in the headlights.





> a. Preparing
> b. All prepared, getting things 100% in order, fussing a bit
> c. Annoyed, trying to find something to do
> d. I've called them, assuming they didn't answer I'm just angry-ish and quite vexed (or worried)
> e. I've left in frustration and made a back-up plan, I'll leave a note or something





> Physically? The absence of discomfort. A feeling of total safety and such. A bed is not comfortable if there are lots of little wrinkles in the sheets. A 'cozy' room probably has a fire going, some rain driving on the roof, some hot chocolate and cookies in the oven?
> I'm very good at making cookies so others would evaluate my skill as good)
> Emotionally? Having comfort is having some sort of pillow to protect you from harsh truths. Emotional coziness would be maybe...a feeling of inertia? Of fraternity?


Sounds more like someone who needs to be prepared or cares for comfort and safety rather than just jumping into life and soaking up all of it's properties to me.


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## Vermillion (Jan 22, 2012)

hoopla said:


> I won't debate this in depth, as the two of us use different systems (Jungian/MBTI analysis VS Socionics) but as you stated before, you have to discover the how, not the what. Why is she decrying things as wrong or unacceptable? Yes, Fe probably plays a role in her case, but if you define Si as personal sensory impressions that are disconnected from objective reality, it wouldn't be hard to see how an Si might decry anything that deflects their personal view of the world as wrong or unacceptable. Wrong does not have to pertain to mortality; it's all about context.
> 
> What is "right and wrong" to her often seems removed from reality. Check out her example of what's "in poor taste". What she considers wrong is based on sensory observations, not mortality, or even judgment of any kind. If you ask me, it's Si. Doesn't sound like one who soaks up objective reality in all of it's forms, but rather one who rejects any sort of stimulus that doesn't reflect her internal sensory checklist.
> 
> ...


First of all, this isn't cohesive with what angelcat said, which is what I was disagreeing with in that post you quoted. angelcat was talking about Ni-doms being idealistic, but here you're talking about Si-doms being idealistic. Uh, what? I never said Si types weren't disconnected from objective reality. But Ni coupled with Se does remove some of the impossible idealism that people can embody. 

Also, idealism in itself is unrelated to cognitive type and hence while people of a type CAN be idealistic, it shouldn't be used as a factor to determine whether a person is a certain type or not.

Just because you are an Ni type, it doesn't mean you don't have opinions on taste. A lot of Ni types have thoughts about what looks good, tastes good, sounds good, etc. *How *does one go about this? That determines Si vs Ni. She talks about her tastes by mentioning them as they are, what she likes and dislikes. An Si type would focus more on the impact these physical sensations have ("Metal music grates on me like nails on chalkboard, it's unpleasant", as an example). Se types focus on the objects themselves. But they are not incapable of having tastes, nope. 

Also, Ni types aren't saints who sit around all day thinking about life and death and mortality. They don't fill their thoughts with how time is making us all waste away. They are normal people, they too plan things, get upset when their plans are demolished and so on. However, an Ni type would be _comfortable_ with understanding how things pan out from the present into the future, because they are attuned to how things and situations flow through life. An Si type, in contrast, would find the concept of time rather frustrating to handle and recognize the flow of. And yes, I definitely think Oswin has shown an affinity for understanding that. Remember that it won't be to the same degree as an Ni dom, because in the end Oswin is still Je dom. Still a rational type, and judges before perceiving. So she draws lines in the sand more than the average Pi dom.

Moreover, simply "jumping into" an experience and its details is something people poor at sensation are quite poor at. It's natural that she would want a degree of planning before going exploring, _especially_ if she is Ni > Se.


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## Dangerose (Sep 30, 2014)

Ok, I've been thinking a bit and atm I am leaning towards Ni again. I'm struggling a bit because I think my Fe 'reads itself' into different statements but . . . I'm not convinced my Pi focus is sensory. I'm not sure what a more abstract focus would look like. I mean...I feel like I'm being more accurately understood if we're taking my statements in a Ni way vs Si...but I'm not certain. Let me try to expand on the things I said earlier that are being debated))

In regards to 'accepting the flow of life' I think...if I understand what you are referring to...that I tend to do so, I find myself getting frustrated with people who will not let certain things go. For instance...if I'm on a road trip and we discover that we're not in the place we thought we would be, I know there will be one or two people in the car poring over the map thinking, "Where did we go wrong?" and just obsessing over how we got to Point B when we were supposed to be at Point A. I'm not that person, at that point I'll be seeing what are the nearby hotels, restaurants, attractions: my attitude will be "So we're here, where are we going to go now?" In real life, I think it's similar. I will dwell on 

To go more in detail about the Morocco thing: if I was planning a trip to Morocco, I would spend the month before learning about the history of Morocco, learning some Arabic, maybe brushing up on my French, making sure I had appropriate clothing, etc;. finding out how to make the trip as worthwhile as possible. So if tomorrow someone came along and told me that they'd booked a trip for Morocco leaving tomorrow...initially I'd feel a little, "But I don't know anything about Morocco!" not because I'm afraid of what might happen in Morocco but because I don't feel mentally prepared for Morocco. I will outwardly act excited about the Morocco trip because obviously they were looking forward to surprising me, I'll feel a little frustrated but I'll go to the library/bookstore and check out some books, put them in my carry-on, get packed, make sure there's not other responsibilities I didn't allow for...and then by the time I'm on the plane, I'm excited about the Morocco thing. 

Actually, a couple months ago my friend asked me if she wanted to volunteer in Ghana with her. I was taken aback by the suddenness of that but I was already researching Ghana and starting to look forward to this experience, and looking into getting a TEFL certificate and using the Ghana experience to jumpstart a career teaching English overseas (not that I was definitely going to do that, I was just looking into it as a possibility). My one compunction was that I did not want to back out of my current job because of a sense of personal responsibility. I would definitely have gone to Ghana and jumped into that experience if it wasn't for that, and my friend changed her mind so I ended up not doing that. But it was a similar process.

When I plan for vacations I usually focus more on learning about the place I'll be visiting/cultural customs/etc so that I can get the most out of the experience and really know why I'm there and what I'm seeing, not just another tourist hearing everything the first time from the tour guide. I usually don't book hotels/transportation in advance because I like to have the freedom to change my plans (for instance if I get really interested in a certain city or if there's a concert I really want to see). Compared to, say, my mother. She worries: "What if I run out of food?" I know that I can buy food pretty much anywhere in the world, and even if I can't...I can stand to lose a couple pounds, no problem. If I'm not dead at the end of the trip, then everything's ok.

edit: I think there was more but I got distracted by the WiFi signal switching back and forth 'limited' 'connected'; I'm going to try to tinker around with the router so it will stop. I can clarify other things; I'd rather be explaining directly what I mean than having you guys try to interpret it more or less accurately)


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## Dangerose (Sep 30, 2014)

What makes me think I'm possibly Ne vs Ni is that I don't have a big life goal and I can easily go, "Oh, I'll get my TEFL certificate and teach English abroad" and then "Nah, I won't, I'll just keep doing what I'm doing". Literally and figuratively, I am going in circles. Literally because I will drive in circles. Earlier today I accidentally got out of my route by ending up in the turn lane and I ended up on the highway. I passed a sign telling me how many miles to Seattle as the music landed on the line "And every road I walked would take me down to the _sea_", the syllables registered at the same time, as I was thinking, "Oh, I've broken out of the driving loop, this feels so much better, this is what I want"...and that made me think, "Maybe I should be moving to Seattle". 

I feel like confounding the literal and figurative in this way is somewhat Ni-ish? I mean, I associate it with _low_ Ni, would it happen with aux Ni? I mean...I'm going to be researching things in Seattle, I've thought about Seattle before and it's not ridiculous or anything. But what is ridiculous is, "I'm literally on the highway to Seattle and it feels good...maybe my future lies in Seattle!" Does that point to anything?


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## Vermillion (Jan 22, 2012)

@Oswin

Sorry, I know you wrote quite a lot, but... most of those events actually don't have much to do with type. Most of them are just variations on common human responses, that's all. 

There is one thing that struck me as important though: how you interpreted the line from the song as something that may have had a literal meaning. It's funny, but there's a Socionics article that describes the ENFJ specifically as doing something like that. Like they could see a sign titled "EXIT" and think that walking through the door would mean "exiting" their current life. Apparently it's called something like "imprint vulnerability". When I find that article I can link it.


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## Dangerose (Sep 30, 2014)

Night Huntress said:


> @Oswin
> 
> Sorry, I know you wrote quite a lot, but... most of those events actually don't have much to do with type. Most of them are just variations on common human responses, that's all.
> 
> There is one thing that struck me as important though: how you interpreted the line from the song as something that may have had a literal meaning. It's funny, but there's a Socionics article that describes the ENFJ specifically as doing something like that. Like they could see a sign titled "EXIT" and think that walking through the door would mean "exiting" their current life. Apparently it's called something like "imprint vulnerability". When I find that article I can link it.


Don't apologize, I'm just typing and hoping I'll land on something that'll help) I'm not really expecting other people to read each line carefully or anything either; hopefully you are just skimming until you see something that seems valuable)

edit: looks like it's related to this? http://personalitycafe.com/enfj-forum-givers/331738-enfj-transformations.html


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## Vermillion (Jan 22, 2012)

Oswin said:


> Don't apologize, I'm just typing and hoping I'll land on something that'll help) I'm not really expecting other people to read each line carefully or anything either; hopefully you are just skimming until you see something that seems valuable)
> 
> edit: looks like it's related to this? http://personalitycafe.com/enfj-forum-givers/331738-enfj-transformations.html


Oh, that's the paragraph I was looking for ^_^ I read it as part of a much larger article on cognitive styles, but yes.


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