# Tell me what's tough about being a man.



## Aßbiscuits (Oct 8, 2009)

I am in no way saying it's not tough to be a man, nope. It's tough being human, no matter what kind of human you are, but rich people are better off than poor people, people from first world countries are better off than those from third world countries. See, I met my complete asshole cousin yesterday who treated my sister like absolute shit because she's a rape victim. Let me repeat that. He treated my sister like shit because she's a victim of rape. The guy who was with him agreed.

So, you're a white male. How could you not see all of the advantages you have in life? I asked him what was so tough about being a male, he more or less said "We have to deal with being accused of rape when females enjoy rape and it's a trivial crime, if even a crime. We're looked at as criminals". That's it? I said "well, the current idea of masculinity is a huge problem. It's as oppressive to males as it is to females", that's surely one of the things that's worse than what happens to few men compared to what women etc have to face that would make being a man so hard. I would consider his example trivial. Even if I haven't experienced it it's not a good enough reason to be so resentful towards women or pass rape off as nothing.

I said you shouldn't blame _us_ for that either, you should blame all the men who rape that make you look that way and the minority of women who falsely accuse of rape. He said, for some reason "men are raped too you know". Of course I know that. I have very strong views when it comes to women raping either men or women. I think it's just as wrong! Why wouldn't it be? It's worse that it's not taken seriously, though it's not as big a problem as men raping women (I mean in the frequency of the crime). I got caught up in the "this is hostile, let's insult each other" atmosphere they seemed to be playing by and I said "Ohhh, is that the issue? You got butt raped and nobody cared?" (I didn't like a lot of things I said, which is why I'm dwelling over how badly it all went). He said "whatever floats your boat" (wut?). 

See, we were at my mother's mass, she died yesterday two years ago. They were making rape jokes and saying rape wasn't a serious crime outside church while we were chatting to them about feminists etc. My sister's a very sensitive woman, she asked them to stop, politely. They laughed. She asked them if they knew anything about our mother and explained if they did they should know why it's inappropriate. "Inappropriate?" he says. "You fucking feminists, trying to sensor everyone cause you're on your period". Yeah, he actually said that. "What are you going to tell me next, that you're a victim?". 

I mean, it's widely known among my family that my father was abusive to my mother and his children. She said yes, calmly and turned to leave. "So what, you liked it and you feel guilty about it so you take it out on men?" and his friend high-fived him. I was so appalled by the ridiculousness of it all I didn't know how to respond. That's when my (male) friend lunged forward fists first. My misogynist cousin fended him off easily and said "hey little man, being a white knight isn't going to get you laid". My uncle split us up and told us to have some respect so that's basically all that happened, but I can't stop feeling unsatisfied about the whole situation. How could anyone view things this way? How many other people would agree with this? Is it that easy for someone to be resentful towards an entire gender? And most importantly, what's tough about being a man?


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## MonogamyIsNice (Mar 21, 2012)

Penis size, the underpowered position in the pursuit of sex, being emotionally retarded, and thinking with your dick. That's about it.

A lot of men are bitter because they can't ever possess someone the way they somewhat naturally are inclined to do. As they are dumb, they may not be able to reconcile the globally promoted values of relational success with their feelings of self-worth or rejection, or elsewise the ultimate failure to fill that one very important hole in all of us. And as he fails to improve his situation through intellect, so to does he fail to understand his situation (and the women) through his ineptitude of empathy. After all, his society hardly encourages that he make a half decent effort to be in touch with his feelings. And so the further he is from being in touch with anyone elses. Add in the patriarchal overtones replete throughout the foundation of our society and you've got a pretty common product, incapable even of understanding what is ultimately in his own best interests, with no concern for the interests of others.

If it helps to forgive, you could pity him for his seemingly loveless fate.


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## reletative (Dec 17, 2010)

i dunno, emasculation seems pretty tough, and today's society does a lot of it. 

The Female gender gets praised for its innate qualities, and the male gender gets bashed for theirs.

True equality and pure celebration of each gender doesn't really exist in the mainstream.

I guess my point is, I know what its like to be a woman and to get degraded. I don't know what it's like to be a man and be emasculated. So how the hell would i know which gender its more "tough" to be.


Edit: re-read the OP. it kind of sounds like that guy is just a total ass and possibly a sociopath.


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## Aßbiscuits (Oct 8, 2009)

Khys said:


> The Female gender gets praised for its innate qualities, and the male gender gets bashed for theirs.


Femininity is NOT praised. If a man acts feminine it's the worse thing he can act. A woman acting masculine isn't as much as a problem (tomboys aren't bullied as much as feminine males).


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## Donovan (Nov 3, 2009)

> Is it that easy for a man to be resentful towards an entire gender?


it's easy for anyone to hate a certain group if they stop thinking. your cousin is a fucking idiot of the highest goddamn caliber. maybe him getting raped wouldn't be bad for his perception--he seems like the sort of person who's view is so contorted that something drastic would need to happen in order to crack it at the foundation, toppling, basically, who he is now. (not serious about the rape part, that would be terrible regardless of the person that received it)

what's hard about being a man? i'm sure it would change depending on the man. you hit on it earlier in your post about what's expected from a "man". from there, it would just be having to put up with hate from other groups that you've never done anything to, who will hate you, or try to see evil in your every move, just because you are a man. i'm not saying who has it worse, since it's so subjective, not to mention if we could narrow it down to a specific group, we'd then have to narrow it down to a specific group that inhabits a certain part of the world because where they live just amplifies all the hardships tenfold.

in any case, again, your cousin is an idiot, i'm glad you tongue-lashed him and that someone at least tried to punch him in the mouth--he's in need of something, that much is for a certainty.


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## reletative (Dec 17, 2010)

Aßbiscuits said:


> Femininity is NOT praised. If a man acts feminine it's the worse thing he can act. A woman acting masculine isn't as much as a problem (tomboys aren't bullied as much as feminine males).


that's not what i meant. I meant Females are praised for Female-ness. Males don't really get praised for Male-ness they kinda get bashed for it. "oh you're insensitive, you're an ass, you don't get me"


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## reletative (Dec 17, 2010)

If you read literature over the last 10000 years, you see a long-standing theme of praise of "femininity". Granted, nowadays, our culture doesn't universally appreciate the definition of Femininity that was being praised, but it still holds value. It's not looked down upon, if you're a woman and you're nurturing and gentle and motherly and chaste and embody the "Angelic" figure described in literature, everybody still thinks you're awesome. Boring, maybe, but awesome. =D

The virtues of Masculinity that were praised in the same literature, the sense of Honor, Leadership, Pride, Virtue, Virility, Dominance, etc. in other words, traditional manliness, are now railed against by the modern age because it is viewed as Chauvinism to give males power. 

I do support Gender-equality, but what I don't support is the idea that we should "pull men down until we're all at the same level". I'd rather see us both lift each other up. I believe positive reinforcement and value of the individual gets you further than railing against gender roles. I don't think of women as "my gender," I think of them as "other humans." Same as I do men.


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## The Proof (Aug 5, 2009)

your cousin's a nutcase, stay away from him

but don't think women are all butterflies and unicorns, cuz they aren't

one tried to infect me with herpes so I'd stay with her, many tried to manipulate me with sex, others lied about their intentions repeatedly, one wanted me to be her master etc. freaks everyfreakinwhere


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## Fizz (Nov 13, 2010)

@Aßbiscuits I don't know how you didn't just castrate them for saying:



> "We have to deal with being accused of rape when females enjoy rape and it's a trivial crime, if even a crime. We're looked at as criminals"


They would be on the floor bleeding to death if I heard that cross their lips.


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## Aßbiscuits (Oct 8, 2009)

Khys said:


> If you read literature over the last 10000 years, you see a long-standing theme of praise of "femininity". Granted, nowadays, our culture doesn't universally appreciate the definition of Femininity that was being praised, but it still holds value. It's not looked down upon, if you're a woman and you're nurturing and gentle and motherly and chaste and embody the "Angelic" figure described in literature, everybody still thinks you're awesome. Boring, maybe, but awesome. =D
> 
> The virtues of Masculinity that were praised in the same literature, the sense of Honor, Leadership, Pride, Virtue, Virility, Dominance, etc. in other words, traditional manliness, are now railed against by the modern age because it is viewed as Chauvinism to give males power.
> 
> I do support Gender-equality, but what I don't support is the idea that we should "pull men down until we're all at the same level". I'd rather see us both lift each other up. I believe positive reinforcement and value of the individual gets you further than railing against gender roles. I don't think of women as "my gender," I think of them as "other humans." Same as I do men.


Gotta agree with that sista (sorry ). 

But I've always seen all traits in both sexes. Call me crazy but I think gender is a societal thing more than an innate thing. It's nurtured, not natured. I think there are few things women are that men can't be and vice versa. I don't see this huge divide people talk about when it comes to sexes. This whole men are from Mars and women from Venus. We're all obviously from earth and human . I think there's biological differences and self- imposed sociological differences and that's all.

@celticstained, @Fizz

People from that side of the family are crazy. I can most certainly depend on someone else doing it. If he's able to say it at a mass for a dead person to someone who's been raped he'll say it anywhere and he'll get his comeuppance.


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## reletative (Dec 17, 2010)

Aßbiscuits said:


> Gotta agree with that sista (sorry ).
> 
> But I've always seen all traits in both sexes. Call me crazy but I think gender is a societal thing more than an innate thing. It's nurtured, not natured. I think there are few things women are that men can't be and vice versa. I don't see this huge divide people talk about when it comes to sexes. This whole men are from Mars and women from Venus. We're all obviously from earth and human . I think there's biological differences and sociological differences and that's all.


Yes. They can show chemical differences in how testosterone and estrogen effect the brain and behavior. But what traditional roles don't take into account is that not everybody has the same levels of testosterone and estrogen. Men & women shouldn't be made to feel "bad" about themselves because their balance is different from the next person of their gender.


What i find most ironic is that religious groups are often the biggest proponents of gender roles, when really they should be the biggest proponents that God created humans and therefore *planned *for each of them to have a different balance of hormones and brain chemistry. =P


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

@Aßbiscuits
enough politically correct nonsense and inconsequential anecdotal evidence. there are just as many women who are aggressive, inconsiderate bastards as men, the difference is men tend to be more powerful as a whole, so they're more likely to be able to actually hurt people with it.

what's hard about being a guy?
- being bashed for your feminine traits
- being bashed for your masculine traits
- being beat up by other guys
- society discouraging you from seeking help when needed
- society expecting you to hide your emotions and deal with them yourself
...I could go on. I'm not saying I've experienced all of these myself (only the top 3) but here you go.


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## Rachel Something (Jan 30, 2012)

People like your cousin should be taken to the back and shot.


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## Fizz (Nov 13, 2010)

Aßbiscuits said:


> @celticstained, @Fizz
> 
> People from that side of the family are crazy. I can most certainly depend on someone else doing it. If he's able to say it at a mass for a dead person to someone who's been raped he'll say it anywhere and he'll get his comeuppance.


I imagine this could easily come up at a bar and he'll say it to the wrong person. Either they were raped or a loved one was and he will likely get very much what he deserved. You could say he _wanted_ it or that he _enjoyed_ it :wink:

I shouldn't wish ill upon people but damn, they make it so hard for me.


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## ThePower (Sep 6, 2011)

Women have the whole legal system on their side and the modern sitcoms that are on t.v is pretty much 'male bashing central and most of the t.v ads are marketed towards women.Being a women in todays society is hard as being a kid in a candy store!


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## jeffbobs (Jan 27, 2012)

on the titanic we were not allowed on the life boats till last.......


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## Aßbiscuits (Oct 8, 2009)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> @Aßbiscuits
> enough politically correct nonsense and inconsequential anecdotal evidence. there are just as many women who are aggressive, inconsiderate bastards as men, the difference is men tend to be more powerful as a whole, so they're more likely to be able to actually hurt people with it.
> 
> what's hard about being a guy?
> ...


I don't recall saying women weren't as bad as men. Don't be so presumptuous. I'm solely talking about the situation here, not providing it for anecdotal evidence as to why males' problems would be seen as lesser to females'. This happened just yesterday and I still don't fully understand it. I want to know what would make this man so resentful besides what he was saying. Aside from that we can reach an understanding, especially from the males' responses. This is men's chance to speak up. And politically correct nonsense? What the fuck are talking about? Where is this politically correct nonsense? 

Aside from all that bullshit, nice list.


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## Fizz (Nov 13, 2010)

ThePower said:


> Women have the whole legal system on their side and the* modern sitcoms that are on t.v is pretty much 'male bashing central and most of the t.v ads are marketed towards women*.Being a women in todays society is hard as being a kid in a candy store!


I resent those TV shows and ads, this is also the most insignificant benefit of being female you could possibly think of. I mean, I must commend you on this. I had no thought or interest to even delve into this area as most TV is garbage. The ads? No one really enjoys the ads, I recognize sexism AND racism that is put into ads and TV shows. Most ads about cleaning products or cooking an easy dinner _still_ have a female protagonist in her harrowing journey of living as a housewife serving her family.

Also you don't know shit if you think ANYONE'S life is like a kid in a candy store. Maybe if all the candy was actually _poison_, then I could see how it works out.


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## reletative (Dec 17, 2010)

Have you seen the commercial for diapers where the men are all watching football and holding babies and the ad basically implies that the babies can sit in pee-soaked diapers through a football game and not have them leak? 

In other words, "men can't be trusted to change their child's pee-soaked diaper." that's pretty damn insulting. most fathers I know would be outraged at that accusation.


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## Arclight (Feb 10, 2010)

Men are violent towards men at a ratio of 8/2 more than they are toward women.
We live under physical threat way more than women do.


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

MyName said:


> Discussions like this aren't particularly productive. If you can't realize that by stereotyping one group, you're most likely stereotyping other groups at the same time with them then you should probably think about them a little more. To expand on what is being discussed above, men today in the west are in a catch-22, if you act masculine, people will view you as stupid and insensitive, but if you aren't, people will make fun of you for being weak and try to strip you of your sexual agency. For women, it's the exact opposite. In addition (this is mainly true for younger men, and especially younger minority men, although I'm white and it's still true for me) men are viewed with inherent suspicion. People usually assume that I'm a shallow thinker, or that I'm going to "cause trouble" because of stereotypes regarding young men. This was especially the case for me in High School, but still continues even now that I'm in my 20's. Things like that also affect older men (i.e any man who wants to work with young children must be a pedophile). I can also rather confidently guess that if Casey Anthony were a man she (or he in this case) would probably be in jail. Again, this probably applies even more to minority men. If you're being accused of crime, there's nothing better than being a white woman. Depending on the crime, even minority women are going to get cut a whole lot more slack that any man. Again, this isn't the most constructive conversation to be having, but I did decide to answer your question in part. I could post plenty more, but writing a huge "list of grievances" isn't going to help anything.


Patriarchal society and gender roles cause these things. Men are seen as violent, unemotional, bad with children and many other things that often aren't true for many, if not most, men.


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

lightened said:


> Being around too much estrogen. It's a rough life.


How does one "be around too much oestrogen"?


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## Roland Khan (May 10, 2009)

sometimes when we take a shit, it'll pull out the ass hairs....


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

Alpengeist19 said:


> The toughest part about being a man is having to listen to women talk about stuff like this.


She isn't saying all men are like the moron she knows. Your comment is asinine and unnecessary.


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## Up and Away (Mar 5, 2011)

Um, go check the INFP forum.

O-o.

White male privilege isn't enough to outweigh being the most isolated type for a guy to be. 

And there are always other possible factors.

In general though, yeah of course white privilege is a huge factor.

Good looks are HUGE too.

Etc.

Edit: Complaining about having to deal with women talking about men is a valid complaint. It doesn't mean it is wrong to talk about gender differences, but it is valid that they are distressing, and that is all he said.



Of course, my main mission in life is to connect with others, not to "fight," so its all good


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## jeffbobs (Jan 27, 2012)

skycloud86 said:


> Yes, because an event that happened 100 years ago to people from societies where gender roles were extremely strict is really relevant to the experiences of a man living in the year 2012.


It was a joke 

But i am 8 times more likely to get assaulted and 5 times more likely to get murdered than a woman, but they are more important when it comes to breakdowns 

is that relevant?


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## lightened (Mar 24, 2012)

skycloud86 said:


> How does one "be around too much oestrogen"?


They do so by being around women all the time.


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

Alpengeist19 said:


> Which would also mean that women cannot say giving birth makes being a woman worse, because it only applies to non-asexual heterosexual women who have been impregnated.


Wrong, not to mention that any fertile biological woman with a womb can be impregnated as long as one of her eggs is fertilised by a sperm, whether she consented to that fertilisation or not.

As for giving birth - 

* The risk of stillbirths or miscarriages is quite high.
* The risk of dying in pregnancy still exists, and is very high in the Third World.
* The risk of post-natal depression.
* The risk of having a back alley or DIY abortion in places where abortion is illegal.
* Women suffer a lot of pain to give birth, especially if no drugs have been administered.
* Pregnancy can cause stretch marks and a pouchy belly, which are seen as negative by society because it's not conventionally attractive.


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## Rachel Something (Jan 30, 2012)

SenhorFrio said:


> *trying to urinate with an erection*, culture of phyiscal importance, getting hit in the nuts, culture that de-value male emotionality, it isn't culturally acceptable for women to apporach men(ask them out or whatever), and women get all the nice clothes


Whatever, at least you can pee standing up...


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## lightened (Mar 24, 2012)

Having to listen to some women whine about pettiness. They almost never want a solution. I am a good listener, when I want to be, but most of time I see not purpose in not strategically finding ways to solve something. The societal expectation for men to succeed and bring the bread home.

Getting blue balls is never easy.


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

SenhorFrio said:


> trying to urinate with an erection


I'm a biological male and I have no problem urinating with an erection. Even if someone does have such a problem, they can always sit down on the toilet.



> culture of phyiscal importance


This is caused by patriarchal gender roles and societal expectations.



> getting hit in the nuts


Both male and female genitalia are quite sensitive, even if female genitalia are inside the body, and both biological males and females can be badly hurt by being hit in that area.



> culture that de-value male emotionality


This is caused by patriarchal gender roles and societal expectations.



> it isn't culturally acceptable for women to apporach men(ask them out or whatever)


I think this has changed in the last few decades, and I don't really consider this to be tough on men.



> and women get all the nice clothes


This is caused by patriarchal gender roles and societal expectations.


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## lightened (Mar 24, 2012)

Here's what's great about being a man:
What ovulation?
What menstruation?
What childbearing?
What menopause?
Societal preference towards patriarchy
We get paid more than women.

The list will continue.


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

jeffbobs said:


> It was a joke


Fair enough.



> But i am 8 times more likely to get assaulted and 5 times more likely to get murdered than a woman, but they are more important when it comes to breakdowns


What do you mean by breakdowns?

Also, this is caused by patriarchal gender roles and societal expectations. Men are brought up with violence and encouraged to solve problems with physical confrontations and brawn rather than talking and communicating.


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

lightened said:


> They do so by being around women all the time.


And how is that tough for a man?


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## reletative (Dec 17, 2010)

@skycloud86 do you like being physiologically male? just curious. (yes that's a serious question)


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## ThePower (Sep 6, 2011)

Fizz said:


> I resent those TV shows and ads, this is also the most insignificant benefit of being female you could possibly think of. I mean, I must commend you on this. I had no thought or interest to even delve into this area as most TV is garbage. The ads? No one really enjoys the ads, I recognize sexism AND racism that is put into ads and TV shows. Most ads about cleaning products or cooking an easy dinner _still_ have a female protagonist in her harrowing journey of living as a housewife serving her family.
> 
> *Also you don't know shit if you think ANYONE'S life is like a kid in a candy store. Maybe if all the candy was actually poison, then I could see how it works out.*


The whole corporate/legal systems are totally biased in favour towards women.Women on a individual basis due circumstances are not going be living a life of luxury but the oppitunities they have whether they do good or bad is astounding.In this post feminist society a man has earn his place while a women can fault constantly and still receive benefits from society.Woman on a majority basis choose when and when not to wear a 'feminist hat' depending on when it suits their agenda.


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## SenhorFrio (Apr 29, 2010)

skycloud86 said:


> I'm a biological male and I have no problem urinating with an erection. Even if someone does have such a problem, they can always sit down on the toilet.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 It doesn't really change the reality because these thing are cause by some "patriarchal gender roles and societal expectations.". I don't agree with or abide by these principles but doesn't change the fact that they are a reality. I don't exactly agree with the social construction thing for alot thing but thats a debate for another day and another thread...


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## jeffbobs (Jan 27, 2012)

skycloud86 said:


> Fair enough.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


i mean car breakdowns if i car breaks down, i am more than 8 times more likely to get assualted while waiting, 5 times more likely to get murdered while waiting for the breakdown services, which put women as priority

But i don't agree with it, It is just a fact i know. in the UK. 

It's just i was put on the spot to think of something and its not tbh really too relevent and almost sounds sexist, But i couldn't think of anything else really, its quite easy being a man


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

lightened said:


> Having to listen to some women whine about pettiness. They almost never want a solution. I am a good listener, when I want to be, but most of time I see not purpose in not strategically finding ways to solve something. The societal expectation for men to succeed and bring the bread home.


You're saying women whine, yet you talk about societal expectations affecting men? They have gender roles and societal expectations on themselves as well.



> Getting blue balls is never easy.


If that's all a man has to worry about, he's in heaven compared to what women have to worry about.


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## lightened (Mar 24, 2012)

skycloud86 said:


> You're saying women whine, yet you talk about societal expectations affecting men? They have gender roles and societal expectations on themselves as well.
> 
> 
> 
> If that's all a man has to worry about, he's in heaven compared to what women have to worry about.


I said *some women whine about pettiness*.


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## ThePower (Sep 6, 2011)

Fizz said:


> Oh c'mon, you know these people don't give a fuck about the plight of women. They're bringing up the most insignificant "benefits" of being a woman. Most of these benefits were put into place to try to level the playing field. It doesn't actually raise women to a higher degree, it ends up causing resentment and hate towards them because _they're bringing men down to their level_.



Cry me a freaking a river ! 

You talk like women are endangered species like the white tigers


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

lightened said:


> @skycloud86
> 
> Who said i want to force women to do anything? who said i want to force women to live in a society than giving them the choice in the matter. where are you picking this from? is there an invisible cherry picking tree that i can't see?


Are you unable to understand my rather simple post? I said that being traditional is fine as long as you don't expect people to be forced into it, and to let them make their own choices. I obviously did not say that you wanted to do this.


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

lightened said:


> That's an ambiguous statement. Which society?
> 
> It's not true. I don't think it is.


Most societies in the world, those being patriarchal societies.


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## dalsgaard (Aug 14, 2010)

Aßbiscuits said:


> This is men's chance to speak up.


Okay, reporting in and speaking up. It's a crazy tale, and I do hope you don't encounter this sort of thing too often. As far as I see it, there are two possibilites.
1. Your cousin is an absolute ass, and isn't representative of men in general.
2. He was making fun of you, and you didn't realize it.

1 is probably right no matter what. The reason I think 2 is a posibility, is because he said the thing about white knights, which sounds like something straight out of 4chan.

But trust me. I'd never agree with this. I don't think men who are sane generally agree with this. My dick doesn't even agree with this, even though it's a dick.


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

lightened said:


> I don't understand the purpose of this topic. Its nonsensical. OP will find any way to discount a subjective stance on the topic.
> 
> When the reality is, everyone has difficulties in life. Life isn't black and white.


How about you actually read the OP?


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## Roland Khan (May 10, 2009)

I sure dont mind not getting all the laws put on us like the females do. All the shit with abortions and whatever the fuss is with all that contraceptive hype, as if that makes em all sluts. We dont have a bunch of people getting all pissed off at us and trying to dictate what we do.


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

ThePower said:


> Cry me a freaking a river !
> 
> You talk like women are endangered species like the white tigers


They're a disadvantaged minority, which you obviously don't understand.


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## lightened (Mar 24, 2012)

JoetheBull said:


> Didn't she say something along those lines in her post?


Apparently "she" is a "he". I don't know. Did she?


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## lightened (Mar 24, 2012)

skycloud86 said:


> They're a disadvantaged minority, which you obviously don't understand.


All women are victims of circumstance. The troubles they face are not dependent on conscious action.


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

lightened said:


> Apparently "she" is a "he". I don't know. Did she?


The OP is a biological cisgender female.


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## Fizz (Nov 13, 2010)

ThePower said:


> Cry me a freaking a river !


No, YOU cry me a freaking river!


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## lightened (Mar 24, 2012)

skycloud86 said:


> Most societies in the world, those being patriarchal societies.


 You're saying women are at a disadvantage in society. That's not true.

Do you speak for all women too?


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## dalsgaard (Aug 14, 2010)

Khys said:


> You men keep complaining about how hard it is to have a penis. At least you can strap that thing down. Try being a runner and having C-cups.


I saw a documentary about women with breasts that were too big (Yeah, I'm a pervert), and some of them had H-cups. They were practically unable to get a proper sports-bra. I can see how it would be pretty hard to run around with XL milk-jugs strapped to your chest.


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## lightened (Mar 24, 2012)

I do not understand the point in this. Women are victims of circumstance, they were born into a very problematic life.


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

lightened said:


> You're saying women are at a disadvantage in society. That's not true.


How isn't it true?



> Do you speak for all women too?


I don't speak for any women, I speak for myself.


----------



## reletative (Dec 17, 2010)

dalsgaard said:


> I saw a documentary about women with breasts that were too big (Yeah, I'm a pervert), and some of them had H-cups. They were practically unable to get a proper sports-bra. I can see how it would be pretty hard to run around with XL milk-jugs strapped to your chest.


i saw a documentary about that too. maybe the same one! but yes. the bouncing hurts.


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## jeffbobs (Jan 27, 2012)

lightened said:


> You're saying women are at a disadvantage in society. That's not true.
> 
> Do you speak for all women too?


Women get paid less for exactly the same job on average in the UK, is it the same in america?, if yes, to me that is a financial disadvantage. which is dependant on sex


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## Fizz (Nov 13, 2010)

jeffbobs said:


> Women get paid less for exactly the same job on average in the UK, is it the same in america?, if yes, to me that is a financial disadvantage. which is dependant on sex


It is the same.


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## The Great One (Apr 19, 2010)

What is tough about being a man? Here is a list that I have composed.....

1. Dating sucks for men. Men are expected to pay for dates, have a car, pick the girl up, and pursue the woman. Women can get laid a lot easier than men, and can get laid pretty much anytime they want. Plus, women don't have to have money to date.

2. You don't constantly have other women trying you. As a man, you have this male dominance bullshit and are expected to constantly defend yourself as a man. Plus there's all this macho bullshit that guys are pulling and you have to put up with that. 

3. Men are expected to be the defender, and must protect their woman. This can become difficult at times.

4. If you get a crazy bitch, the cops always believe that a man started a fight in a domestic dispute. 

A lot of things are hard about being a man.


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

dalsgaard said:


> I saw a documentary about women with breasts that were too big (Yeah, I'm a pervert), and some of them had H-cups. They were practically unable to get a proper sports-bra. I can see how it would be pretty hard to run around with XL milk-jugs strapped to your chest.


There's cavemen out there who think it makes women more attractive, that would be horrified at the idea of a woman having a breast reduction for abnormally large breasts. These are the same kind of men who would be all for their female partner having a breast enlargement.


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## lightened (Mar 24, 2012)

jeffbobs said:


> How am i putting women down by stating fact? how can you be hopeful of fact?
> 
> Hey miss, listen you get paid less for this role even thou your male counter part gets more....just remain optimistic


I said the topic does. Not you.

"HEY WOMEN ARE AT DISADVANTAGE IN LIFE" Um, so are other ethnicities, cultures, and men. Its not just women. Thats a fact.

I don't know where you reside, but where I live, there seems to be an encouragement of equality financial gain. There are women who make more than men. They exist.


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## lightened (Mar 24, 2012)

jeffbobs said:


> I didn't understand it the first time, now u have repeated it twice, it has finally sunken in, praise jesus


Relax bud, it was a typo.


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

GloriousEnd314 said:


> Or it could just be a case of good ole reverse sexism.


The fact that you call it "reverse sexism" shows how the patriarchy of society works. Sexism is seen as something that happens against women, just like racism is seen as something that happens against people from ethnic minorities. Men, and white men in particular here in the West, have a lot of privilege. Yeah, most white men don't have as much privilege as the rich, powerful businessman who has numerous houses, but it's still there.



> Whatever the true cause(s), the point stands: male issues are not treated with the same level of seriousness/attention by society as female issues are. There is no excuse for this. I don't care whether you think it's justified or what caused it. What matters is the general reaction to it. This is in part what makes life as a male that more tough.


I certainly don't think it's justified, but you should care what caused it, or else how can we remove the problem?


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## dalsgaard (Aug 14, 2010)

skycloud86 said:


> Nothing as long as the woman wanted one, but there's some men who see women pretty much as objects.


It's interesting how female criticism of men in general, closely resembles the symptoms of narcissistic personality disorder. 
Symptoms:
Reacts to criticism with anger, shame, or humiliation
May take advantage of others to reach his or her own goal
Tends to exaggerate their own importance, achievements, and talents
Imagines unrealistic fantasies of success, beauty, power, intelligence, or romance
Requires constant attention and positive reinforcement from others
Easily becomes jealous
Lacks empathy and disregards the feelings of others
Obsessed with oneself
Mainly pursues selfish goals
Trouble keeping healthy relationships
Is easily hurt and rejected
Sets unrealistic goals
Wants "the best" of everything
Appears as tough-minded or unemotional

I'm sure the prevalence is also relatively high among us Y-chromosomes.....


----------



## lightened (Mar 24, 2012)

Fizz said:


> You mean when women are abused by their male partners?
> 
> I know that some women get stuck in the mentality that they deserve what they get in abusive relationships. I'm not sure how often that happens to their male counterparts. I'm sure if it's marriage, they could feel stuck in the situation.


Openminds, run rampant here.

It's not just women who get stuck in this mentality. Men do to. It's equal. Its not dependent on gender anyways, it's not as simple as some of you are making it out to be.


----------



## Dark Romantic (Dec 27, 2011)

Fizz said:


> You mean when women are abused by their male partners?
> 
> I know that some women get stuck in the mentality that they deserve what they get in abusive relationships. I'm not sure how often that happens to their male counterparts. I'm sure if it's marriage, they could feel stuck in the situation.


Well, I haven't experienced this myself, but I would think that the psychology of abusive relationships would work both ways. The problem is, in both cases, the woman automatically gets the benefit of the doubt, whether or not she's the abuser or the abusee. More often than not, it's the latter, but when it's the former, it's a huge problem, and one which is known to be severely underreported: how many men would want to admit that they're being beaten up by their girlfriends? They'd get ridiculed beyond belief. Yet, if they were to defend themselves, they get arrested and blamed for the whole encounter. That is a serious issue that many men are faced with.


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

lightened said:


> What the fuck is with the one-upping? NO THIS, NO THAT, NO THIS, NO THAT.
> 
> MEN AND WOMEN FACE PROBLEMS IN LIFE TOGETHER.
> 
> /THREAD


We know they both face problems, but this thread was about a female member who experienced a male fully exercising his male privilege.


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## Fizz (Nov 13, 2010)

dalsgaard said:


> *It's interesting how female criticism of men in general, closely resembles the symptoms of narcissistic personality disorder. *
> Symptoms:
> Reacts to criticism with anger, shame, or humiliation
> May take advantage of others to reach his or her own goal
> ...


Actually the men are reacting the same exact way, don't point fingers.


----------



## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

dalsgaard said:


> It's interesting how female criticism of men in general, closely resembles the symptoms of narcissistic personality disorder.
> 
> I'm sure the prevalence is also relatively high among us Y-chromosomes.....


It's got nothing to do with being female or male (and a y chromosome does not make a man, by the way. It simply means that the individual is born with the physiology and biology of a male of that species), and everything to do with being a human.


----------



## dalsgaard (Aug 14, 2010)

Fizz said:


> Actually the men are reacting the same exact way, don't point fingers.


No, girls only have BPD.


----------



## dalsgaard (Aug 14, 2010)

skycloud86 said:


> It's got nothing to do with being female or male


What doesn't?


> (and a y chromosome does not make a man, by the way. It simply means that the individual is born with the physiology and biology of a male of that species)


Of course it doesn't. It's a figure of speech.


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## JohnGalt (Nov 5, 2011)

Let's make an entire thread generalizing how all men suck and are sexist. Because that's not sexist...


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## jeffbobs (Jan 27, 2012)

lightened said:


> I said the topic does. Not you.
> 
> "HEY WOMEN ARE AT DISADVANTAGE IN LIFE" Um, so are other ethnicities, cultures, and men. Its not just women. Thats a fact.
> 
> I don't know where you reside, but where I live, there seems to be an encouragement of equality financial gain. There are women who make more than men. They exist.


i told you where i reside.

yes there are women on this earth that get paid more than men i never said there wasn't i said that on average there is proof to suggest that being a different sex can increase or decrease your annual income. and that women in exactly the same job as their counter part are getting paid less. the majority of the time.


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

dalsgaard said:


> What doesn't?


Criticising other people.


----------



## reletative (Dec 17, 2010)

_(this thread is getting repetitive. time for inappropriate humor.)_




lets all just admit that its tough being a wimmins because your genitals get all bloody and your hormones make you stoopid and its tough being a menz because you want to fuck everything that moves but some of the stoopid wimmins won't let you.


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

JohnGalt said:


> Let's make an entire thread generalizing how all men suck and are sexist. Because that's not sexist...


Did you read the OP, because I don't think you did, seeing as you wrongly assume that this thread generalises about men and calls them sexist.


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## Fizz (Nov 13, 2010)

Dark Romantic said:


> Well, I haven't experienced this myself, but I would think that the psychology of abusive relationships would work both ways. The problem is, in both cases, the woman automatically gets the benefit of the doubt, whether or not she's the abuser or the abusee. More often than not, it's the latter, but when it's the former, it's a huge problem, and one which is known to be severely underreported: how many men would want to admit that they're being beaten up by their girlfriends? They'd get ridiculed beyond belief. Yet, if they were to defend themselves, they get arrested and blamed for the whole encounter. That is a serious issue that many men are faced with.


That's something this and most societies need to work on in my opinion. It's something that should never be ignored because of basic human rights. As @skycloud86 stated, a lot of men are shamed and humiliated if they report being raped. It doesn't matter if they were raped by a woman or a man, they will still be treated with disdain. I think there _is_ a severe lack of empathy of males when it comes to protecting their physical safety in such a situation.


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## The Great One (Apr 19, 2010)

@Fizz


> Women are judged more harshly for having casual sex, so no, that's not a benefit of being a woman. Men are more likely to be lauded for this behavior.


Okay, so it may be a double sided coin, but being able to get laid a lot easier is a benefit. I can assure you. 



> Oh you have no fucking idea what it's like to be a woman around other women. They're vicious, cruel, and highly judgmental. This isn't so of every woman but it's incredibly common, so don't even try that one.


Okay, I will give you this. However, men are much more prone to resort to violence than women and that sucks. 



> Oh well? You don't HAVE to, it would look bad if the woman pushed you into a fight. This point doesn't really matter, people don't often fight for the honor of others anymore.


You win on this point. It was sort of a stupid reason.



> How often does this happen? I don't know many people who get into domestic disputes in the first place. Just dump the bitch, you don't have to put up with this.


It happens a lot actually. Some women seem like they would be great people on the outside, and then they get violent or do crazy shit. I have almost been arrested several times for this shit. Here's one example:

My mom has this crazy, bitchy, crack-head girlfriend. Anyway, so one time I had no choice but to room with them or be homeless. So we all roomed at a hotel. It was really bad financially at that particular time, and I had to go out and pawn some of my stuff to pay the rent because my Mom's dumbass gf spent all the money on crack. So anyway, when I came back with the money, I gave the rent money to my mom and told her to pay the rent. Then, her crazy bitch gf stole the money out of her hand and was running out the door with it to buy crack with it. I then told that woman to give it back immediately! She then said, "NO I NEED THIS MONEY! I WON'T LET IT GO!" My mother and I then tried to pin her down and give us the money but she wrestled us off. She then was half-way out the door and yelled, "RAPE! HE'S RAPING ME! HELP!" I then said, "WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU! ARE YOU TRYING TO GET ME ARRESTED FOR SOMETHING I DIDN'T DO!" I then ignored her because my mom was right there, and kept trying to pin her down and snatch the money from her. I just thought, "Well if anything happens, then my mom will back me up". However, then as she kept yelling, "RAPE!" outloud, she managed to fool a guy and he said, "Let her go now or I'm calling the cops!" I then had no other choice but to risk a rape charge, and it wasn't worth it. So she ran out the door with the damn rent money. 

Some women can really be crazy, deceptive bitches.


----------



## lightened (Mar 24, 2012)

jeffbobs said:


> i told you where i reside.
> 
> yes there are women on this earth that get paid more than men i never said there wasn't i said that on average there is proof to suggest that being a different sex can increase or decrease your annual income. and that women in exactly the same job as their counter part are getting paid less. the majority of the time.


Oop. I didn't care enough to remember. I apologize sincerely mate.


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## dalsgaard (Aug 14, 2010)

skycloud86 said:


> Criticising other people.


That's not what I said. I said that's the what the critcism of guys resembles. Remember to read my post before you go on the defensive.


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## Fizz (Nov 13, 2010)

> Genau QQ.


@Aßbiscuits Oh you and your use of German. I have no idea why, but it's one of my favorite German words.


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## ThePower (Sep 6, 2011)

*What is 'misandry' and what is 'anti-misandry'?*
Misandry is the hatred of males as a sex, as opposed to misogyny, the hatred of women; or misanthropy, hatred of the human species. Misandry comes from misos (Greek μῖσος, "hatred" + andr-ia (Greek anér-andros, "man&quot. Those holding misandric beliefs can be of either sex. Thus it holds to common sense that Anti Misandry is to work toward removing misandry from our culture.
*
Can you give me some demonstrations of misandry?* Sure. Have a look at the second-wave feminist view of men for an example. Valerie Solanas, the radical feminist who shot Andy Warhol in 1968, provides a famous example of misandry in her self-published _SCUM Manifesto_. In case you're wondering, SCUM is an acronym for 'Society for Cutting Up Men', practically a call for gendercide, the culling of men. Quite literally, Solanas expressed her desire to "_institute complete automation and destroy the male sex._"

*Wow, this is pretty bad stuff - what can I do about misandry?* For one thing, you can stop accepting it as a 'way of life'. Once upon a time, respect was a two-way street. These days it is more a one-way street where men are demanded to be respectful to women (even those who do not earn, or even try to earn it) while simultaneously disrespect of men is expected, condoned, perpetuated and even taught. You can make a difference by refusing to live this way.

*Did you just say misandry is 'taught'?* Yes, that's right! The next time you switch on the television, count how many programmes have the token 'stupid boyfriend' or 'abusive husband' or 'paedophilic father' figure. Switch over to a children's channel / time window and watch how many cartoons or programmes reflect 'silly daddy' characters or 'bullying big brother'. Don't forget, of course, nearly all the women in these same programmes will be smart, sexy, sassy and full of beans, capable of juggling a career lifestyle with children, a husband and a social circle - let's not forget that she's undoubtedly a wonderful cook and always remembers everybody's birthdays. If these images are being constantly spread out over our airwaves, what does that tell our children who are growing up watching & learning daily, hourly, that men are just so stupid, abusive and ... well, useless? 
*
So is it more feminism's fault, or the media's fault?* A lot of both, but neither would be able to indoctrinate our youth without the support of.... the government.
*
Ahh - yes. The government. Tell me about their involvement?* Well, they positively support and enforce feminist programmes of anti-male bias.

*Uh?* Think '_Violence Against Women Act_' - notice something wrong in that? Notice how violence against men or children is not mentioned? VAWA implies, through it's title alone, that men are the primary perpetrators of violence - despite 30 years of research and in excess of 130 scientific studies proving that intimate partner violence is roughly mutual. Time and time again, the results say the same "men and women are equally violent towards one another". And yet, when feminists demand preferential treatment or additional 'rights', the government promptly delivers, like a good boy. 

antimisandry.com AM Articles - What is Misandry?


----------



## Dark Romantic (Dec 27, 2011)

Fizz said:


> Aye, they don't always need to be doing it for the pleasure though. They could be a sperm jacker, which could add insult to injury if the woman takes it to court. I'm sure there have been women who raped men so they could get pregnant and collect child support. It is quite the stretch of the imagination and incredibly hypothetical, but that's not to say it hasn't happened. That's why I too think that there should be more awareness on males being raped. It doesn't matter their age because it can be emotionally detrimental regardless.


Indeed. Actually, the main reason I found it so incredulous, is that I didn't know there were ways of forcing a man into an erection. I could have thought of ways to violate a man without giving him one, but I didn't see the point, unless her aim was simply to degrade and humiliate the man in general, without a sexual angle coming into it.



> Too often young boys are praised for sleeping with their female teacher. If you reverse the roles, the male teacher is seen as a predator and the female student as the victim. Females just aren't taken seriously, they're not threatening to most. I think that's why there's a tendency to side with them from society, which can be bad.


Haha, to be fair, that's a pretty common fantasy among teenage boys (myself included, back when I was still in high school): the reason it wouldn't garner that much attention is because a lot of teenage guys would think it was a good thing, sort of a sexual milestone. On the other hand, I can see where having a female teacher actively preying on students would be a problem, if they were unusually young, or if she was coercing them into sex.


----------



## ThePower (Sep 6, 2011)

Ace Face said:


> *It's just a little irritating, though somehow not shocking, that men are given an opportunity to speak up and give us their perspective*, yet that's hardly what happened in this thread. One simple question suddenly becomes an argument about gender roles and discrimination? For fuck's sake, I understand that those are legitimate issues, but that's not what this thread was intended for. I, for one, would actually LOVE to get the perspective of men without all of this clouded mess. I understand that some statements were made that caused red flags to go up, but derailing the entire thread over a couple of poorly founded statements? Really?


Just not the perspective *you want*, Darling !


----------



## JohnGalt (Nov 5, 2011)

skycloud86 said:


> The thread title doesn't generalise about men, she is asking a question in regards to all men, and neither does her closing statement.


Out of context, that statement/request makes no generalization. If that question was all she had posted, I would have no complaints. But in the context of the story, things change. There's an undertone. She's basically saying "I had this awful experience with one ignorant man. My sister was a rape victim and he was making light of it. Men have it so much easier than women." 

When all she can really logically conclude are "some men are assholes" and "what happened to my sister sucked".



> Isn't it? Yes, there are times when it isn't, but most of these are due to an individual men being part of a minority group, such as being gay or black or poor or disabled.


Good question, and one worth discussing. However her post gave no reasons to support it. Her post only gave reasons to believe that ONE man is an asshole (and clearly the rapist too). 

There is nothing in there that applies to ALL men or how life for ALL men is easier. Going from an isolated incident to discussion of an entire gender is the definition of generalization.... 




> He was being a jackass towards her sister, who is a survivor of a rape. Are you suggesting that rape isn't that big a deal for women?


Where did you get that from? Did I ever say that what he did was appropriate? I outright called him out on it. I don't know what more I'm supposed to do to show I'm against him. Murder him?




> And men don't do that about women? I find many men will assume all women are one thing simply because one individual woman is. Of course, most men aren't like this, and neither are most women.


 Tu quoque fallacy. Doesn't make it acceptable to do it. 
Some men are abusive to women. Is that an excuse to be abusive to men? Or is it better to be the bigger person?


----------



## Aßbiscuits (Oct 8, 2009)

ThePower said:


> Just not the perspective *you want*, Darling !


Very few people on this forum are misandrist. Especially not those expressing interest in what men have to say about their obstacles in life. 

Likewise anyone who acknowledges that women suffer aren't misandrists. 

_Likewise_, not all feminists are misandrists and using one extreme example doesn't reflect the the views of most feminists.



Fizz said:


> @Aßbiscuits Oh you and your use of German. I have no idea why, but it's one of my favorite German words.


Which one, Aßbiscuits or genau? ;P


----------



## JohnGalt (Nov 5, 2011)

@Ace Face
The best way to get men to answer the question, without the clouded mess, is to just ask the question. Period. With no clouded mess about it or undertones of anger at men. If the OP was one sentence, most of this mess wouldn't be here. 

"What is tough about being a man?"


----------



## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

ThePower said:


> *e me some demonstrations of misandry?* Sure. Have a look at the second-wave feminist view of men for an example. Valerie Solanas, the radical feminist who shot Andy Warhol in 1968, provides a famous example of misandry in her self-published _SCUM Manifesto_. In case you're wondering, SCUM is an acronym for 'Society for Cutting Up Men', practically a call for gendercide, the culling of men. Quite literally, Solanas expressed her desire to "_institute complete automation and destroy the male sex._"


Saying that Solanas represents feminism is like saying the KKK represents white people.



> *Wow, this is pretty bad stuff - what can I do about misandry?* For one thing, you can stop accepting it as a 'way of life'. Once upon a time, respect was a two-way street. These days it is more a one-way street where men are demanded to be respectful to women (even those who do not earn, or even try to earn it) while simultaneously disrespect of men is expected, condoned, perpetuated and even taught. You can make a difference by refusing to live this way.


You can, by helping to deconstruct patriarchal society. That, and the media, is the real enemy of men, not women and not feminism.



> *Did you just say misandry is 'taught'?* Yes, that's right! The next time you switch on the television, count how many programmes have the token 'stupid boyfriend' or 'abusive husband' or 'paedophilic father' figure. Switch over to a children's channel / time window and watch how many cartoons or programmes reflect 'silly daddy' characters or 'bullying big brother'. Don't forget, of course, nearly all the women in these same programmes will be smart, sexy, sassy and full of beans, capable of juggling a career lifestyle with children, a husband and a social circle - let's not forget that she's undoubtedly a wonderful cook and always remembers everybody's birthdays. If these images are being constantly spread out over our airwaves, what does that tell our children who are growing up watching & learning daily, hourly, that men are just so stupid, abusive and ... well, useless?


If you honestly think feminism caused this, there's no hope for you.



> [/B]


Feminism is not misandrist as a movement, only a small minority of people who claim to be feminist are. You might as well say all Americans are ******** or all Jewish people have big noses.



> So is it more feminism's fault, or the media's fault? A lot of both, but neither would be able to indoctrinate our youth without the support of.... the government.


It is the media and patriarchal society, not feminism. Feminism seeks to remove patriarchy, which is bad for both men and women.



> *Uh?* Think '_Violence Against Women Act_' - notice something wrong in that? Notice how violence against men or children is not mentioned? VAWA implies, through it's title alone, that men are the primary perpetrators of violence - despite 30 years of research and in excess of 130 scientific studies proving that intimate partner violence is roughly mutual. Time and time again, the results say the same "men and women are equally violent towards one another". And yet, when feminists demand preferential treatment or additional 'rights', the government promptly delivers, like a good boy.
> 
> antimisandry.com AM Articles - What is Misandry?


If Men's Rights Activists stopped whinging about having to pay for dates, not getting laid and supposed discrimination against men in the court system, they could help feminists fight patriarchy and the media, who are the ones saying that men cannot be victims of domestic violence or rape. Instead, they focus on attacking feminism because they don't like the fact that women are fighting for equality.



>


I'm going to say, and I'll be saying this with some certainty, that any misandry mentioned in these videos was caused by the media and/or patriarchy, not feminism.


----------



## Fizz (Nov 13, 2010)

Aßbiscuits said:


> Which one, Aßbiscuits or genau? ;P


Both, awww yeaaah!

Mostly genau :tongue:


----------



## dalsgaard (Aug 14, 2010)

JohnGalt said:


> @Ace Face
> The best way to get men to answer the question, without the clouded mess, is to just ask the question. Period. With no clouded mess about it or undertones of anger at men. If the OP was one sentence, most of this mess wouldn't be here.
> 
> "What is tough about being a man?"


 Personally, I don't even know how people managed to read the thread.

I had to actually block out @Aßbiscuits avatar with my hand, so I could concentrate on the text.


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## Aßbiscuits (Oct 8, 2009)

JohnGalt said:


> @Ace Face
> The best way to get men to answer the question, without the clouded mess, is to just ask the question. Period. With no clouded mess about it or undertones of anger at men. If the OP was one sentence, most of this mess wouldn't be here.
> 
> "What is tough about being a man?"


You don't have to jump to conclusions though and assume there's deep and dark undertones. I've explained again and again that I'm not sexist and I OBVIOUSLY don't think this is what all men see (which is why I asked about the commonality of it). When I did law in college we were told to assume what someone meant even if they say they didn't mean it and can show that is a logic fallacy. (And that's basically the only important thing I learned there lol). 

"Intentional fallacy – addresses the assumption that the meaning intended by the author of a literary work is of primary importance" (I'm not sure that's the one, wish I could find my old lecture notes lol). 

Everyone who knows anything about me knows I love telling stories. This isn't an odd thread for me. I also wanted to ask a few more questions or explain where this curiosity was coming from. I expected this, but I knew people would still understand (and wasn't I right?).

Or maybe this is a feminist agenda. I wanted to prove men don't have any problems and knew their Neanderthal minds would be distracted by my avatar and wouldn't be able to mention them, making women victorious.


----------



## JohnGalt (Nov 5, 2011)

Aßbiscuits said:


> Speak for yourself, you're certainly not speaking for me. I've made it clear hundreds of times I'm not sexist or seeing his views as the view of ALL MEN.


I think you are confusing "generalizing" with only meaning "ascribing his views to all men". I said no such thing. I never said that you think all men think that way. Check out my other posts. I never said that you thought all men think like your cousin.

Implying that life is easier for men than women is making a generalization, especially when your supporting reasons are just an anecdote about one asshole and a rape victim. If you had some arguments that applied to men and women as a whole (or statistical evidence, etc.) that would be one thing. But you just have one story that obviously polarizes the gender roles, showing one extremely abusive man and one extremely victimized woman and then implying that things are easy for men and hard for women. But that same power difference does not exist between all men and women.

There may be plenty of reasons that life is easier for men than women. But then mention them. Instead of giving evidence to support that claim, you just have an isolated incident. 

Basically your question ("what's tough about being a man?") has nothing to do with your story ("my cousin is an asshole") and I think you would have gotten better responses from men if you had just asked the question on its own. Or, if your primary purpose was to vent about the story and your cousin, you could have just posted about that on its own and a lot of men would have sympathized and said mean things about him. Connecting the two is what bothered me and possibly other men because it implies some sort of generalization is taking place between what happened with your family and questions about ALL men.


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

JohnGalt said:


> Out of context, that statement/request makes no generalization. If that question was all she had posted, I would have no complaints. But in the context of the story, things change. There's an undertone. She's basically saying "I had this awful experience with one ignorant man. My sister was a rape victim and he was making light of it. Men have it so much easier than women."


Men generally have it much easier than women. What exactly is the problem with this generalisation? Don't rich people have it much easier than poor people? Don't white people have it much easier than black people? Don't straight people have it much better than gay people?

She's talking about privilege. Men have male privilege. Rich people have rich privilege. White people have white privilege. Straight people have straight privilege.



> When all she can really logically conclude are "some men are assholes" and "what happened to my sister sucked".


That's what she did, but you're reading too much into it and assuming that she's being sexist.



> Good question, and one worth discussing. However her post gave no reasons to support it. Her post only gave reasons to believe that ONE man is an asshole (and clearly the rapist too).
> 
> There is nothing in there that applies to ALL men or how life for ALL men is easier. Going from an isolated incident to discussion of an entire gender is the definition of generalization....


She was simply extrapolating from her experience and asking what was tough about men's lives as men. Even if she did generalise, she's not being misandrist.



> Where did you get that from? Did I ever say that what he did was appropriate? I outright called him out on it. I don't know what more I'm supposed to do to show I'm against him. Murder him?


Of course not, but you seem to think that rape isn't as big a deal for women.



> Tu quoque fallacy. Doesn't make it acceptable to do it.
> Some men are abusive to women. Is that an excuse to be abusive to men? Or is it better to be the bigger person?


I said most men weren't like that.


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## Mountainshepherd (Feb 23, 2012)

skycloud86 said:


> I don't need to prove it, you only need to look at society to see that women have it worse off.


What a load of crap. Arguments like that aren't worth the electrical energy your brain needed to default to them. 

Women have their own unique challenges, men have theirs. This pissing contest is amusing because it shows peoples colors. Some people are losing so badly and so proud that they think they are winning.

It isn't a man's world out there now its a world of whiners and shouting voices. 

http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2560#comic

Think on that one and you might learn something.

Here is a neat mathematical truth for you, men occupy more of the extreme ends of the spectrum in most variables. What that means is that more men live on the absolute shit end of life, as well as more men living in the extreme comfort zone. The average is a statistically over applied and functionally very limited concept that has little application in any reasonable argument about the standards of living. 

Someone on one end of the spectrum being rich doesn't mean a thing to the guy eating refuse from behind a Burger King. Burger King food isn't even that good fresh.


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## dalsgaard (Aug 14, 2010)

skycloud86 said:


> Men generally have it much easier than women.


How do you know this?
Honestly. That's as subjective as anything gets, and no one is qualified to make unpartisan judgement.


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

JohnGalt said:


> Implying that life is easier for men than women is making a generalization


Yes, but it is a valid one. Like in my post to you, men have male privilege.



> especially when your supporting reasons are just an anecdote about one asshole and a rape victim. If you had some arguments that applied to men and women as a whole (or statistical evidence, etc.) that would be one thing. But you just have one story that obviously polarizes the gender roles, showing one extremely abusive man and one extremely victimized woman and then implying that things are easy for men and hard for women. But that same power difference does not exist between all men and women.


So ignore the story and answer the question she posed.



> There may be plenty of reasons that life is easier for men than women. But then mention them. Otherwise it's just an unsupported lashing out.


There are many, many reasons. 



> Basically your question ("what's tough about being a man?") has nothing to do with your story ("my cousin is an asshole") and I think you would have gotten better responses from men if you had just asked the question on its own. Or, if your primary purpose was to vent about the story and your cousin, you could have just posted about that and a lot of men would have sympathized. Connecting the two is what bothered me and possibly other men because it implies some sort of generalization is taking place between what happened with your family and questions about ALL men.


You know, there's a lot of men who go onto feminist sites and blogs and complain about articles regarding rape, saying that they aren't rapists and never will be. There's something called Shroedinger's Rapist, which is a good article where the author takes her time to explain that no, she and other feminists don't think all men are rapists, and no, she doesn't hate men and neither do other feminists, but in a patriarchal society with rape culture present, women can never truly feel safe from the threat of rape. Isn't that a valid generalisation to make, that all men are potential rapists, even though the vast, vast majority would never consider it?


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## Rachel Something (Jan 30, 2012)

Aßbiscuits said:


> Or maybe this is a feminist agenda. I wanted to prove men don't have any problems and knew their Neanderthal minds would be distracted by my avatar and wouldn't be able to mention them, making women victorious.


That would explain some of the posts complaining about not being able to get laid. 

But hey, if it makes Neanderthal-minded men feel any better, I was distracted by *Aßbiscuits'* avatar too.


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

Mountainshepherd said:


> Women have their own unique challenges, men have theirs.


Of course, but are you really going to tell me that most women don't have it worse than most men? Think about what kind of society most people live, think about the biological differences, think about the social double standards and gender roles and societal expectations.



> It isn't a man's world out there now its a world of whiners and shouting voices.


I didn't say it was a man's world, not that it isn't.


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## Laney (Feb 20, 2012)

No idea if someone addressed this already but one issue I think men get it really rough in is social programs. Unless you're old enough to get social security or you're married with kids, it seems no one cares about you being poor. They are asked to be providers without getting any aid themselves.


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

dalsgaard said:


> How do you know this?
> Honestly. That's as subjective as anything gets, and no one is qualified to make unpartisan judgement.


How on earth is it subjective?

Are you telling me that generally, men don't have it easier than women? I'm not saying that all men have it better, or that men don't face problems in life.


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

laney said:


> What are you using to define an easy life and what statistics are you using to say that more men have reached that state than women? Because it does sound subjective.


Men don't have to go through childbirth.
Men have full bodily autonomy, unlike women.
Men don't have to worry about being raped.
Men are usually allowed to put themselves before their family.
Men's appearance is not seen as their most important quality by society and the media.
In most societies, men have always had more rights than women, who were often seen as little more than property.


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

JohnGalt said:


> No, it is not a valid generalization to consider all men potential rapists.


Aren't we all potential murderers, potential theives, potential drug dealers?



> Just as it's not ok to assume that any black person in Detroit could carjack you.


Black people don't have white privilege, whilst men have male privilege.



> Or that any priest could rape your son if you let him be an altar boy.


I think this would be a reasonable fear seeing how widespread child abuse is within Christian clergy.



> If a man grows up in a warzone and watches people die all around him, and then starts to consider everyone in civilian life a potential murderer because he is afraid for his life, we still do not treat that as OK. We call that post-traumatic stress disorder and treat him.


Are you saying women have all seen numerous people being raped around her?



> Our society does not consider it healthy or acceptable to view a majority of people as potential violators of your right to your own body. In fact, such paranoia a sign of mental illness.


Or it could be because that group has a privilege that women don't.


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

dalsgaard said:


> Not sure if agree.
> 
> In most patricarchal societies the vast majority of males are destined to being outcast, or locked in a brutal fight for survival through dominance. It's pretty much the norm in the animal kingdom. The silverback is better off than most of the females, sure. But you tend to forget all the male Lion Cubs that get ostracized or left out because of their perceived threat.
> 
> There has never been much room in society for beta males. Animal or human.


The number of alpha females in society is tiny compared to the number of alpha males.


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## Aßbiscuits (Oct 8, 2009)

Once again, since my mind works this way, in light of all these thoughts in relation to what's been happening, my mother abandoned me which is almost unheard of among women. She just up and left and got on with her life. 

I definitely know that women are capable of the same things men are, completely. Women do exactly all the awful and good that men do. I think if it were more acceptable, if more women were on top more often and in power, that all of the atrocities caused by men would also be caused by women. Think of Margaret Thatcher. Just like if women were given the chance they'd achieve as much as men, they'd be as lethal. It's called being human, not being female.


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

laney said:


> I don't think that's true. In patriarchal societies women are treated as if they can't help themselves and so it's the duty of their relatives to care for them. But who cares for the men who aren't rich?


Here in the UK, there are many benefits available to men who are unable to work.


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## Mountainshepherd (Feb 23, 2012)

skycloud86 said:


> Men have full bodily autonomy, unlike women.


Debatable. Statistically men die younger and face a greater possible chance of physical injury or illness. So at the very least we face greater risk to our bodily autonomy to offset our greater original autonomy. I know quite a few blue collar working men who have lost much of their physical autonomy to the harms of their jobs. I don't mean injuries either just wear and tear over time from the constant strain of such physical jobs.

It easy to complain about things you don't understand both sides of isn't it? Ever had to duck under a large operating machine and shovel pounds of sawdust onto a conveyor belt for several hours all while in a partially crouched position?


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

ThePower said:


> I beginning to think that O.P made up the story to go on rant about the great 'purveyor of evil' which is misogyny that infects every strata of society.Ive seen feminists do this frequently but in this instance Im withholding my judgement.


Yet you had to mention your judgement anyway? If you're going to accuse her of lying, at least have the guts to do it outright.


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## reletative (Dec 17, 2010)

I think James Brown already solved the Man Vs Woman argument






:tongue:


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## Laney (Feb 20, 2012)

skycloud86 said:


> Men don't have to go through childbirth.
> Men have full bodily autonomy, unlike women.
> Men don't have to worry about being raped.
> Men are usually allowed to put themselves before their family.
> ...


 Men don't have wombs so I don't the relevance. That's like saying women have it easy because they don't get testicular cancer.
Men have autonomy over their bodies but not their offspring. They can and are forced into parenthood.
Men are raped, killed, and beaten just as us women are.
Men in our society are the bread winners they don't get to put themselves first.
Men are expected to be tall dark and handsome the same way women are expected to be thin and big boobed.
men are worked to death and treated like property just like we are. It's more an issue of haves verse have nots.


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

GloriousEnd314 said:


> You mentioned that the Patriarchy is the cause of male discrimination. Specifically how so? Wouldn't a patriarchy eradicate male discrimination or do I misunderstand what patriarchy effectively does?


The patriarchy puts men in boxes just like it does to women. It wants them to stick to gender roles and societal expectations as well.


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## Mountainshepherd (Feb 23, 2012)

skycloud86 said:


> The number of alpha females in society is tiny compared to the number of alpha males.


Nonsense argument because you are defining alpha females as being female alpha males. You're also failing to define alpha in general.


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## Aßbiscuits (Oct 8, 2009)

Mountainshepherd said:


> Nonsense argument because you are defining alpha females as being female alpha males. You're also failing to define alpha in general.


Pedantic, are we?


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## ThePower (Sep 6, 2011)

skycloud86 said:


> Here in the UK, there are many benefits available to men who are unable to work.


Jobseekers allowance is given to *everyone* who is unemployed !


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## Mountainshepherd (Feb 23, 2012)

skycloud86 said:


> The patriarchy puts men in boxes just like it does to women. It wants them to stick to gender roles and societal expectations as well.


This is a specific argument that has an enormous amount of theoretical assumptions. The feminist concept of patriarchy is a very specific theory about power distribution that does not have even remotely universal academic support. There are some good thoughts in there but also some real questionable ones, throwing it around like its a truth just makes you a religious zealot not a purveyor of wisdom.


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## Mountainshepherd (Feb 23, 2012)

Aßbiscuits said:


> Pedantic, are we?


Yep and rightly so, because when you're arguing a point with nonsense arguments your point loses validity. Poor argument construction is a sign of lazy thinking. If someone is trying to their her points to invalidate other people's points shouldn't the points be good ones?


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

Mountainshepherd said:


> You didn't say that? you haven't been shouting it this entire time and insinuating it when you weren't shouting it? I love people who flip flop in arguments keeps you on your toes if nothing else.


Of course I didn't. I don't believe it's a "man's world" at all. I believe it's the world of the rich and powerful who lord it over the rest of us. Most are male and of the dominant race of their society.



> Limit this discussion to North America, because that is what we are talking about and speaking about the world is board enough to make the conversation utterly irrelevant.


Let's not, seeing as the OP is Irish and I'm British.



> To give you an example of why a world scope is foolish and counter productive. There is a tribe in Africa where the men have to ritually wear a glove made out of bullet ants and survive with their sanity intact to be a man. The bullet ants bite is possibly the most painful bite in the world, and it is a glove of them. I know you'll make an overly simplistic argument about patriarchy for that one but the cause is irrelevant to the fact that it sucks.


It's a cultural tradition that needs to be opposed from within that culture.



> As for the rest about the differences, the double standards, and societal expectations. I'm actually quite well read on the topic and I've studied it from multiple disciplinary approaches under very intelligent men and women, and also some less intelligent men and women. Women do face a lot of difficulties but actually a lot fewer than they used to face. Men face a lot of these kinds of issues as well but you will never recognize that until you realize something simple but elusive,


Exactly. We're all much better off because society is not as patriarchal as it used to be.



> "everyone's perspective differs because their position in the world differs as well and the world's expectations on them differ"
> 
> Trying to argue about whose problems are worse problems is silly narcissistic nonsense because you are literally unable to understand those problems fully unless you've experienced them. I appreciate the need to highlight the struggles women face because as a man I acknowledge that on some level I cannot fully appreciate the burdens they place on a woman's shoulders. I appreciate being educated about them because knowing will help me understand the world and the people around.


I agree.



> What I cannot appreciate is that the same women who shout that their needs be heard are so often shouting down anytime a man tries to explain his own difficulties and his own struggles. To truly support equality of gender concerns all concerns must be acknowledged, all must be addressed, and all must be weighed fairly in reference to the struggles of the gender that is facing those struggles, not with dismissive attitude from the other gender.


Of course, but let's be a bit more serious about our problems as men. Our problems are not things like "women don't approach us" or "women can get sex much easier", our problems are due to gender roles and societal expectations that are forced on us by society and the media.



> You aren't on here defending women's struggles your trying to use them to diminish men's struggles. That is the exact kind of sexism that kept women's problems in the dark for so long. I'm a student of history and what I'm seeing here is a repeat of the same stupid mistakes.


I'm not trying to diminish men's struggles at all. I'm just saying that men's struggles are not the stupidly inane "boo hoo I can't get laid" or "waaaa I have to pay for our date", they're much more bigger and important than that. I'm also saying that feminism is not misandrist. Yes, there are a few fringe extremist, but no more than can be found in any other ideology or socio-political movement.


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## Laney (Feb 20, 2012)

skycloud86 said:


> Here in the UK, there are many benefits available to men who are unable to work.


I wasn't limiting my comments application to the western world. In all areas of the world there are the betas, as another poster mentioned.


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## Aßbiscuits (Oct 8, 2009)

Mountainshepherd said:


> Yep and rightly so, because when you're arguing a point with nonsense arguments your point loses validity. Poor argument construction is a sign of lazy thinking.


Reliance on academic writings is a sign of lazy thinking.


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## Mountainshepherd (Feb 23, 2012)

Fair enough, the developed world then. Struggles in the developed world differ profoundly enough from the undeveloped that my comment still stands.


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

Mountainshepherd said:


> Debatable. Statistically men die younger and face a greater possible chance of physical injury or illness.


Yes, because of violence (including war), because we generally don't care about our health as much as women, because we generally don't go to the doctor with problems until it is too late, and because generally we have a weaker immune system.



> So at the very least we face greater risk to our bodily autonomy to offset our greater original autonomy. I know quite a few blue collar working men who have lost much of their physical autonomy to the harms of their jobs. I don't mean injuries either just wear and tear over time from the constant strain of such physical jobs.


But those are jobs that women do as well, whilst pregnancy is something only biological females can experience.



> It easy to complain about things you don't understand both sides of isn't it? Ever had to duck under a large operating machine and shovel pounds of sawdust onto a conveyor belt for several hours all while in a partially crouched position?


Oh yeah, because all men have had that experience before. 99% of men will never need to do that.


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## Mountainshepherd (Feb 23, 2012)

Aßbiscuits said:


> Reliance on academic writings is a sign of lazy thinking.


No its a sign of doing your research and backing your opinions up with facts and various perspectives to form valid arguments that are varied and dynamic. I form my own opinions and thoughts but I make sure that they are not rooted in ignorance or only a single understanding of the viewpoint. If you read one thing you agree with, or see one thing, and trust your interpretation 100% then you're dancing in a pool of ignorance.

Try again.


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## Sara Torailles (Dec 14, 2010)

Well, I'm gonna give a controversial opinion and people are going to probably chastise me for it, but here goes.

Yes, I believe this society is patriarchal, simply because men are in the highest positions and earn more on average, but that does not mean men have it easy at all.


People care less if a man is killed. Hence the phrase "women and children first" or "even women and children were killed". Men constitute a disproportionate number of the workplace deaths. This lines up with a "men are the breadwinners, and women are the childrearers", because a woman's well-being is most important for the sake of the future. Although, this was the case back then, our standard of living is higher and both men and women should be able to escape gender roles. 
People care less about violence against men, even though men are often the victims of violent crimes. One could say it's mainly male-on-male, but should we dismiss crime simply because of the perpetrator's background? It's kind of like saying "Oh, violence against blacks isn't serious because it's mostly black on black".
Male rape is widely underreported. Probably even more than female rape, because a man being overpowered is highly stigmatized, and men face the whole thing of "Don't be a little bitch, you should have liked it since the woman wasn't ugly." In one statistical report of military rape in the Congo, 22% of men as opposed to 30% of women reported they were raped. The reason men rarely talk about it is because homosexuality is punishable by death in the Congo. And nobody reports that statistic.
Female on male rape is often seen as nowhere nearly as bad as male on female rape. The fact of the matter is that the FBI defines rape as an act committed only by the penetrator. If a woman ties a man to a bedpost, and forcibly has coitus with him, this is not considered rape by the FBI. The woman would have to shove something up a man's anus to have it qualify as rape.
The Oxford English Dictionary's definition of rape is: "The crime, committed *by a man*, of forcing another person to have sexual intercourse with him, esp. by the threat or use of violence."
While these definitions don't apply to everyone's interpretation, we have to think how biases control these. We don't like to think of women as rapists, but it's way more common than is reported.
Men are commonly seen as less emotionally complicated, and the only emotions that are considered male emotions are negative ones such as aggression and hubris.
Child abuse is commonly seen as a male crime, even though women are more often the perpetrators.
If a man has personal problems, he is often silenced and told to man up. 
In the business of childrearing in general, men are often seen as deficient. If a father cares about his child, he may have to suffer paying child support to a woman who he cannot trust, and he often has little say in it because around 90% of child custody cases are won by the woman. If a man does want to stay home and take care of the kids, he is often looked down upon for it because it's not in his sphere as a man.

In our current social structure of imposed gender roles, women _want_ to succeed. Men are _required_ to succeed. A lot of men give up their social well-being, their personal-well being, their physical well-being, and even their lives to achieve success. It also goes with the social system of men being breadwinners and women being childrearers. A man's life has less value because a man's worth is ultimately seen by how much he outputs in terms of resources to keep the women and children safe and warm. Since our standard of living is higher, we have less need for a system like that.

Men's rights is often a hard thing to champion because of point seven. Even though I personally am not an activist on either side of the issue (nothing personal, I'm just conflict-avoidant), they do bring up some good points. Although, I don't approve of the more extreme MRA's attacks on feminism, I also don't like the entire disregard of the whole advocacy. In a progressive society, men's rights is ultimately a good thing.

I'm honestly the person who doesn't give a flying fuck about how feminists or masculists view their gender as being the more harmed by society. I do hate it when a masculist labels a feminist as a man-hater simply because of their beliefs, or a feminist labels a masculist as a misogynist simply because of their beliefs. All I see is, there are problems with our society that ultimately disadvantage both genders, and they need to be fixed.


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

laney said:


> Men don't have wombs so I don't the relevance. That's like saying women have it easy because they don't get testicular cancer.


Testicles and wombs are not analogous. Women can get ovarian cancer just like men can get testicular cancer. 



> Men have autonomy over their bodies but not their offspring. They can and are forced into parenthood.


How are men forced into parenthood? We don't need to go for abortions (legal or illegal), or to carry a child for nine months. We can just leave a woman alone with her child, whilst women have to carry it.



> Men are raped, killed, and beaten just as us women are.


Most male rape victims have been raped by other men. Female on male rape is very rare.
Men are killed probably more than women are, but most of those killed are killed by men.
Men face more violence than women in general, but this includes warfare and criminal activity where both perpetrator and victim are criminals.



> Men in our society are the bread winners they don't get to put themselves first.


How do they not get to put themselves first when they have the money?



> Men are expected to be tall dark and handsome the same way women are expected to be thin and big boobed.


Yes, but it's not as important for a man to be conventionally attractive as it is for a woman.



> men are worked to death and treated like property just like we are. It's more an issue of haves verse have nots.


Both men and women work, and in the West at least, most jobs are much safer nowadays, although many people still have to work long hours on low wages.


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

ThePower said:


> Jobseekers allowance is given to *everyone* who is unemployed !


Yes, what is your point?


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

laney said:


> I wasn't limiting my comments application to the western world. In all areas of the world there are the betas, as another poster mentioned.


Of course, but outside of the Western world, there is little help for anyone who can't work, male or female.


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## Mountainshepherd (Feb 23, 2012)

skycloud86 said:


> Yes, because of violence (including war), because we generally don't care about our health as much as women, because we generally don't go to the doctor with problems until it is too late, and because generally we have a weaker immune system.


The stats are similar if you take out military service and violent deaths. As for the male immune system comment, well that right there is something that makes men's lives more difficult compared to women. 

We have weaker immune systems yet we are exposed in larger numbers to dangerous working conditions. 



skycloud86 said:


> But those are jobs that women do as well, whilst pregnancy is something only biological females can experience.


Very few women do those jobs as a percentage of those work forces or as a percentage of women in general. By your own argument that makes those things a male problem. 

Quit bringing up pregnancy, complain to god/the universe/evolution about that one, nothing we change in society will change that it is women who get pregnant. This isn't a card game there are no trump cards. I support any medical research to make it safer and easier though. 





skycloud86 said:


> Oh yeah, because all men have had that experience before. 99% of men will never need to do that.


Completely incorrect that kind of activity is standard fair for any sort of plant, manufacturer, or production based job and those jobs are held in vast majority by men.


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## Aßbiscuits (Oct 8, 2009)

Mountainshepherd said:


> No its a sign of doing your research and backing your opinions up with facts and various perspectives to form valid arguments that are varied and dynamic. I form my own opinions and thoughts but I make sure that they are not rooted in ignorance or only a single understanding of the viewpoint. If you read one thing you agree with, or see one thing, and trust your interpretation 100% then you're dancing in a pool of ignorance.
> 
> Try again.


I was right the first time. You can't think for yourself if you need some uppity limited written work to tell you what's right or wrong factually or otherwise. 

Anyone with common sense can look at the world and see it for what it is, statistics etc. are the polishing of those views. There are many widely held views which are misconceptions, misconceptions are easier to understand which is why they're widely viewed but if you learn to discern and view things with your own critical eye then research it, you're set. 

This thinking is very Te biased, if you were using Ti you'd see it differently, which shows the validity of that thinking. All-in-all this is where perceiving helps, and everyone perceives, don't pretend you don't. You perceive before you judge if you're an INTJ.


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## Laney (Feb 20, 2012)

Skycloud I'm really confused as to what point you're arguing. You said a page or so back that both men and women are boxed in and discriminated against but then you keep arguing that women have it worse. This isn't a who has it worse pissing contest. The OP asked what's tough about being a man and you're trying to invalidate every point presented. As if men don't have the right to complain about their problems because women also have problems.


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

Mountainshepherd said:


> We have weaker immune systems yet we are exposed in larger numbers to dangerous working conditions.


Because in general we are physically stronger.



> Very few women do those jobs as a percentage of those work forces or as a percentage of women in general. By your own argument that makes those things a male problem.


Of course it does, but it's up to society, the government and industry to make those jobs as safe as possible.



> Quit bringing up pregnancy, complain to god about that one, nothing we change in society will change that it is women who get pregnant. I support any medical research to make it safer and easier though.


Let's not bring in a potentially mythical creature, shall we?

It's also interesting how you'll accept dangerous jobs performed by a fairly small number of men as something that all men experience, but you won't accept pregnancy which is what many women experience. 



> Completely incorrect that kind of activity is standard fair for any sort of plant, manufacturer, or production based job and those jobs are held in vast majority by men.


Not exactly. Again, like I said, not all men will experience such a situation, and most probably will not. Yes, the minority of men who still work in such jobs in the West will, but every other man won't.


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

laney said:


> Skycloud I'm really confused as to what point you're arguing. You said a page or so back that both men and women are boxed in and discriminated against but then you keep arguing that women have it worse. This isn't a who has it worse pissing contest. The OP asked what's tough about being a man and you're trying to invalidate every point presented. As if men don't have the right to complain about their problems because women also have problems.


I believe men have the right to complain about their problems, but few other members are giving examples of problems that affect men as much as they would affect women. A lot of the problems only occur for a small number of men, whilst the problems given for women affect most, if not all, of them.


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## Where Love Died Laughing (Jan 5, 2012)

I don't think men and women can ever be 100% equal. Why? Let's be honest. Biologically, women have it much worse than men do. 
However, in an ideal world social expectations of men and women could perhaps be neutralized.

Men are required by society to be successful, to have well-paying jobs to support their family. Financially, most of the burden is on them. Also, a man who is being emotional (crying or talking about his problems) is immediately proclaimed a wimp even by females (often by those who whine about all men being emotionless). Children are often handed over to their mothers, even if the mother is less capable of caring for them than the father.

But on the other hand, men have more rights than women in most societies (ie. honor killings of women who were raped because they shamed their families), they can get a better education and often have an easier time getting jobs. In relationships, a woman and a man cheating on a partner is not treated equally, with society tending to be much more lenient towards men. A man abandoning his children or disregarding parental duties is considered more acceptable than a woman doing so. Etc.


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## Dark Romantic (Dec 27, 2011)

Over 250 posts in 5 hours...

#Winning


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## Aßbiscuits (Oct 8, 2009)

Dark Romantic said:


> Over 250 posts in 5 hours...
> 
> #Winning


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## Mountainshepherd (Feb 23, 2012)

Aßbiscuits said:


> I was right the first time. You can't think for yourself if you need some uppity limited written work to tell you what's right or wrong factually or otherwise.
> 
> Anyone with common sense can look at the world and see it for what it is, statistics etc. are the polishing of those views. There are many widely held views which are misconceptions, misconceptions are easier to understand which is why they're widely viewed but if you learn to discern and view things with your own critical eye then research it, you're set.
> 
> This thinking is very Te biased, if you were using Ti you'd see it differently, which shows the validity of that thinking. All-in-all this is where perceiving helps, and everyone perceives, don't pretend you don't. You perceive before you judge if you're an INTJ.


So given that you don't read works of research, or read anyone's works based on the position you're trying to stand on. Where do your ideas come from? If they come only from your own perspective you are ignorant by the simple definition of the word. I have respect for the perspective and devotion of time many people have put into studying and trying to understand the world from where they stand.

I do look at the world around me constantly and I am judging it constantly with my own mind, don't be a child and try to insinuate I am not. Yet I am not a fool enough to dismiss the contributions of other people to those same concepts. Every perspective on an issue has some valid contribution to viewing that issue because by nature of their position being different from my own they are seeing things that are occluded from my perspective. 

I don't "need" scholastic works to back up my arguments, but when you make an argument using a scholastic term like "patriarchy" you better be able to back it up if you think your argument has any value. Throwing around words you don't fully understand as if they were truth is not wisdom. It hurts the quality of arguments that may otherwise be good if they were backed up more wisely. (This isn't meant as a criticism of the argument I've made my point there, its just an example now).

Now for the last one, common sense. The human brain is a very flexible but also very limited organ. Common sense is an illusion, it is a reaction to what you view as it is filtered through the frame by which you view the world and is limited by, and defined by, the ideas and experiences that you have encountered.

I value the perspectives of others and I read their works to help form my own opinions precisely because I am aware of how limited the human brain is, and how experience based knowledge is very very bias. I compare my thoughts to the works of others because it helps me expand on my understandings beyond what I encounter myself in the world.

A man who reads books lives many lifetimes in his life, those who do not live only one.


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## Aßbiscuits (Oct 8, 2009)

Mountainshepherd said:


> So given that you don't read works of research, or read anyone's works based on the position you're trying to stand on. Where do your ideas come from? If they come only from your own perspective you are ignorant by the simple definition of the word. I have respect for the perspective and devotion of time many people have put into studying and trying to understand the world from where they stand.
> 
> I do look at the world around me constantly and I am judging it constantly with my own mind, don't be a child and try to insinuate I am not. Yet I am not a fool enough to dismiss the contributions of other people to those same concepts. Every perspective on an issue has some valid contribution to viewing that issue because by nature of their position being different from my own they are seeing things that are occluded from my perspective.
> 
> ...












Basically you use academic writing it to broaden your views. There are better ways. Also, I think it's important to mention books aren't limited to academia. 

How long did you spend in college?


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## Mountainshepherd (Feb 23, 2012)

Because in general we are physically stronger.[/quote].

Not sure how that's relevant. Being able to bench 250 doesn't mean a lot if you're going to die anyways. 



skycloud86 said:


> Of course it does, but it's up to society, the government and industry to make those jobs as safe as possible.


I agree. You know that we are society though so technically that means its up to us.





skycloud86 said:


> Let's not bring in a potentially mythical creature, shall we?


I meant that as a generalized abstraction to the causal force of the universe regardless of what it is. But I agree which is also why I changed it to god/the universe/evolution prior to reading your reply. 



skycloud86 said:


> It's also interesting how you'll accept dangerous jobs performed by a fairly small number of men as something that all men experience, but you won't accept pregnancy which is what many women experience.


.

Because I'm are talking about societal imbalances. Society has an obligation to assist women with the struggles of pregnancy but it does not have an obligation to pay homage to it. 



skycloud86 said:


> Not exactly. Again, like I said, not all men will experience such a situation, and most probably will not. Yes, the minority of men who still work in such jobs in the West will, but every other man won't.


You said 99%, that was exactly wrong. 

You're more correct that it is a minority averaged out, but the percentage is much higher than you'd think and in certain towns it is the majority employer of men. You also have to remember that even if only 20% of men work in those jobs 20% of 10million people is 2 million individuals, that is a lot of people. Arguments about gender equality must include individual variance and regional concentrations. You see those kinds of workplaces crop up in towns that become utterly dependent on them to keep their workforce employed and their local economies active. Resource based industry towns live or die by their mills/mines/plants etc, and for those towns that is where men work to make a reasonable income.


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## Aßbiscuits (Oct 8, 2009)

@Mountainshepherd 

I hate derailing my own thread, but watch this: 






It's funny though because people are often on my ass for being an ardent empiricist. Especially around here where I insist everyone read Jung instead formulating their own theories because Jung did extensive research into humans based on real humans unlike Freud or Jung's successors (and incidentally after doing so assigned the feeling function to both men and women). But I rely on my OWN eyes over anything. It scares me when someone relies on something because it's written in a fanciful way.


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## knittigan (Sep 2, 2011)

Mountainshepherd said:


> This is a specific argument that has an enormous amount of theoretical assumptions. *The feminist concept of patriarchy is a very specific theory about power distribution that does not have even remotely universal academic support.* There are some good thoughts in there but also some real questionable ones, throwing it around like its a truth just makes you a religious zealot not a purveyor of wisdom.


LOL you say this like academia is somehow devoid of sexism and/or people who do not think critically about the ways in which they benefit from patriarchy simply by nature of how "enlightened" everyone is.

As someone who actually switched programs because of sexual harassment in a male-dominated field and who knows other women who have done the same, just... wow. Mind = blown.


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## Mountainshepherd (Feb 23, 2012)

Aßbiscuits said:


> Basically you use academic writing it to broaden your views. There are better ways. Also, I think it's important to mention books aren't limited to academia.
> 
> How long did you spend in college?


I never said I limited myself to academic writing, which proves my point about jumping to conclusions based on only one limited experience and one perspective. Someone made an academic point and I gave an academic reply, context limits a situation but it doesn't necessarily limit people and it shouldn't limit your perceptions of them.

I read quite broadly on many different subjects, many of which are not academic, I enjoy reading. My insistence on appreciation of varied perspectives is not academic in origin, but rather from a love of stories.


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## jeffbobs (Jan 27, 2012)

A bad thing about being a man, Being hit in the balls....not even that, if you flicked them, the guy isn't getting back up for a while, its like superman and kryptonite


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## MyDarkAngel (Mar 23, 2012)

Gosh, this whole vagina thing makes it very difficult to be a man. :sigh: /facetious


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## Manhattan (Jul 13, 2011)

@_Aßbiscuits_ If you're interested in why it can be hard to be a man, you should watch this video: 




It's interesting that while in past societies men had _complete control_, they were _still objectified_. Men haven't been kind to men, but the current generation can hardly be blamed for that. The worker/weapon objectification vs sex object objectification is an interesting comparison. 

Your cousin is one of the most chauvinistic people I have heard of in memory. I'm not sure this situation was a good starting point for this topic, since he's not even close to a representative of male views. Even with his sexism aside, that he would behave that way at a funeral says volumes about him. 

*For the sake of the topic: *I'll say that in general, it is easier for women to manipulate than for men to manipulate other men. Obviously, a respectable woman would not do this, rather this is just addressing a negative stereotype. If a woman has average to above average looks and practices manipulation, she can lead multiple men along with just a finger in no time. This can give her at least some access to whatever resources that man may have. The counterpoint is that men are stereotyped as violent, though that is far less likely to get the man anywhere. 

Not all of these men need to be horny apes either. There are plenty of men who need to stroke their egos by showing how sensitive and caring they are by "saving" a woman. I've seen this in shy narcissist men. (Look for it in "emo" guys, or friend-zoned guys going after women who they complain about treating them badly behind their backs, etc...) 

This also brings to mind another topic. In several sexuality classes with FTM transexuals, one of the things they repeatedly brought up was how much more aggressive and cold other men were to them once they also became men. Less favors, different personal space bubble, less welcome in any social interactions, and so on. 

Still, men have advantages as well. I am not going to claim it is harder to be a man than a woman, or the other way around either.* I do not think either sex obviously has it better than the other. Nor do I care, since we should really be concerned with the fact that discrimination is happening in the first place, regardless of the gender. *


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## geekofalltrades (Feb 8, 2012)

@thread (why is it hard to be a man): Sex-linked recessive diseases. Ex: colorblindness, male pattern baldness, others (ranging in seriousness) that I can't remember right now. Men are much, MUCH more likely to get these than women are. Aside from that... eh, I don't know. Being a man is really not all that hard.

Your cousin is a little shit, by the way.


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

Mountainshepherd said:


> Not sure how that's relevant. Being able to bench 250 doesn't mean a lot if you're going to die anyways.


Even a woman can train herself to bench 250. What I mean is that we have more physical strength due to higher levels of testosterone.


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## Hruberen (Jan 2, 2012)

*How we're supposed to chase after girls and they barely if ever go after us
*How if we talk to a girl that we don't really know too much, we come off as a creep
*Being mistaken for just wanting to get in someone's pants, when you're really not


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

Hruberen said:


> *How we're supposed to chase after girls and they barely if ever go after us


This is due to societal conditioning and gender roles. It's not really something that makes it hard to be a man, though.



> *How if we talk to a girl that we don't really know too much, we come off as a creep


Probably because you're not doing it in a way that is comfortable for her. Think about how she might see you as creepy, and how you can help her not see you as creepy. For example, don't just go up to a woman and start talking to her, look for signs that she isn't interested in talking to her. For example, a woman alone on a late night train or bus is most likely not going to want some strange man coming up to her and talking to her.

This article is something every man should read - Guest Blogger Starling: Schrödinger.



> *Being mistaken for just wanting to get in someone's pants, when you're really not


Blame society and the media.


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## Cetanu (Jan 20, 2012)

I've grown up hating women and only recently stopped and started giving respect and appreciation for their existence after realising that they have to go through a lot in their daily lives. If I made this change for ANY reason it would be for my own health. Hating the opposite gender is self-destructive. It made me deeply depressed and lonely.
Now I can look at women as not an object or a bitch but as another person like me who possibly has to go through more than I do (I see them this way to an extent and it is willed - instinct and looking at breasts is difficult to overcome.)
What's so tough about being male? I'm not sure if I could tell you.
*Warning: hypothetical and meaningless imaginative situation (Strongly advise NOT reading it because it will waste your time.):*
Imagine being a man that works in a job he doesn't like because he has to make enough money to have a family and support his wife and children but because of this amount of work he becomes overweight. His wife then becomes unattracted and sexually unfulfilled and decides to cheat on her partner for satisfaction. The man continues to be deprived of sex and probably looks at younger girls with guilt and shame, further destroying him emotionally. His wife leaves him, takes custody of the kids, half of the mans belongings and the man has to pay child support every week while enduring the thought and perhaps reality of his wife, whom he loves, having sex with younger and much more attractive men. This in itself is soul-destroying. A deep, dull, achy, constant pain that pierces into the center of one's being, maybe like being on a period except forever.
I just made all of that shit up.

Honestly I haven't had a hard life. I tend to undercut my hardships though. I've been through depression, heartache, backstabbing by my trusted friends, financial loss through manipulation, the bashing of my self-esteem by an ex, getting beaten up by groups of young drunk men on a few occasions.
Actually it's funny that i started that with "I haven't had a hard life." but it really feels that way to me.
Things in terms of my career have been easy to come by... Actually... I've had to work my ass off and learn a hell of a lot and practice even more to get where I am now. I'm really valuable and intelligent as an employee and outperform others consistently. But like I said, it doesn't feel like I have had to do any real work. Real work to me is bricklaying or... building a house... hunting a large animal. Isn't that real work? Mental work is not really work. It's terribly easy. Sudoku is the most challenging thing I have to deal with mentally. Staying focused while listening to a boring lecturer who is teaching things I have already learnt is a feat but in the scheme of things it's nothing.

At this point in my post I really think that the best way for me to tell you what is so tough about being a man (from my perspective) is if you tell me what's so hard being a woman (from your perspective) so that we can compare each others struggle.

This post is strange...


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## Playful Proxy (Feb 6, 2012)

I think the most difficult thing about being a male is that as a male, we are expected by females to pursue them. While you may be inclined to fire off about the feminist movement changing that, I ask you, how common among teenagers is it for a female to pursue a male? Exactly. If the white male in question is introverted, he is avoided, thrown out in the minds of women, and is most likely not getting into a relationship until he is 30. Women on the other hand, they have objective views given to them. If they are attractive, men will follow them and they will know they are attractive. A shy girl does not have to worry about being avoided by guys because guys do not care nearly as much. Women want confidence. Introverted males are not considered confident. 

As for the whole abuse spectrum of your argument, realize that physical violence is statistically about the same from both male and female, so villanizing men is quite the fallacy.


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

Signify said:


> I think the most difficult thing about being a male is that as a male, we are expected by females to pursue them.


I think this is the most pathetic thing about some men, that apparently the biggest difficulty that we face is being expected by females to pursue them. Forget about higher rates of suicide, forget about dying younger because we don't care about our health as much as women in general do, forget about horrible male cancers such as testicular and prostate cancer, forget about the stress caused by not being able to show our emotions as much as women, forget about the violence we're brought up with, forget about all the societal expectations and gender roles that we get placed on us. No, our biggest problem is that we have to be the pursuer in relationships.

The very fact that some men think our biggest problem is having to pursue women shows firstly, just how much privilege we have as males and secondly, just how little we think about our real problems.


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## Playful Proxy (Feb 6, 2012)

skycloud86 said:


> I think this is the most pathetic thing about some men, that apparently the biggest difficulty that we face is being expected by females to pursue them. Forget about higher rates of suicide, forget about dying younger because we don't care about our health as much as women in general do, forget about horrible male cancers such as testicular and prostate cancer, forget about the stress caused by not being able to show our emotions as much as women, forget about the violence we're brought up with, forget about all the societal expectations and gender roles that we get placed on us. No, our biggest problem is that we have to be the pursuer in relationships.
> 
> The very fact that some men think our biggest problem is having to pursue women shows firstly, just how much privilege we have as males and secondly, just how little we think about our real problems.


Considering I have never attempted suicide, gotten testicular cancer, or died early, it cannot exactly be expected of me to have brought up points which subjectively, have yet to happen. Also, while I understand my wording may have been a bit loose, allow me to clarify that I was more or less pointing out that introverted males essentially have a harder time finding a love life in early years and could that possibly attribute to your depression rates? And what do you mean by not showing emotion as much as women, how would I even find a use for that?

I pointed out the cause of the problem in my first sentence. The problem itself is the inability to be romantically involved with anyone until your hormones have calmed down so much, it no longer even matters and you are most likely sterile by that point anyway. Survival of the fittest, my ass.


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

Signify said:


> Considering I have never attempted suicide, gotten testicular cancer, or died early, it cannot exactly be expected of me to have brought up points which subjectively, have yet to happen.


They're still far better examples than whining about having to pursue women. As a man, you are more likely to die younger because men in general don't care about their health as much as women do, and men in general put off going to the doctor about a health problem. As a man, if you were to consider killing yourself, you would be more likely to use more violent methods, such as hanging or shooting, increasing the chances of successfully killing yourself. As a man, you probably don't know how to check for signs of testicular cancer, or what the symptoms are. As for prostate cancer, it's believed that men will eventually die of prostate cancer if nothing else kills them first. 



> Also, while I understand my wording may have been a bit loose, allow me to clarify that I was more or less pointing out that introverted males essentially have a harder time finding a love life in early years and could that possibly attribute to your depression rates?


I guess it depends on how much you want a love life, as I'm an introverted male myself and don't particularly have any interest in a love life at the moment. It could be a factor in depression rates, but I doubt it's one of the biggest reasons.

You're putting too much emphasis on your lack of a love life, and thinking it's the biggest problem in your life as a man, when I can assure you that it isn't.



> And what do you mean by not showing emotion as much as women, how would I even find a use for that?


For a start, it might help you with your finding a love life.

Keeping emotions bottled up is not healthy. Trying to ignore them in order to not appear unmanly is unhealthy.



> I pointed out the cause of the problem in my first sentence. The problem itself is the inability to be romantically involved with anyone until your hormones have calmed down so much, it no longer even matters and you are most likely sterile by that point anyway. Survival of the fittest, my ass.


Men generally stay fertile all of their lives, whilst women are usually sterile by their sixties, if not earlier.


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## Donovan (Nov 3, 2009)

skycloud86 said:


> I think this is the most pathetic thing about some men, that apparently the biggest difficulty that we face is being expected by females to pursue them. Forget about higher rates of suicide, forget about dying younger because we don't care about our health as much as women in general do, forget about horrible male cancers such as testicular and prostate cancer, forget about the stress caused by not being able to show our emotions as much as women, forget about the violence we're brought up with, forget about all the societal expectations and gender roles that we get placed on us. No, our biggest problem is that we have to be the pursuer in relationships.
> 
> The very fact that some men think our biggest problem is having to pursue women shows firstly, just how much privilege we have as males and secondly, just how little we think about our real problems.


some men thinking something based on them putting very little thought into the subject somehow best shows what problem (sorry, subjective problem) is "our" biggest, and either idiocy or a subjective mindset shows how we are privileged? 

have you ever thought that maybe the reason one person speaks of it is because they are going through it, or that they have gone through it in the past and this has colored their view, and that putting focus into something this subjective has to force one to stop putting thought and energy into the other aspects of the problem in general, usually leading to a one-sided or close-minded view--sound familiar?


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## Playful Proxy (Feb 6, 2012)

skycloud86 said:


> They're still far better examples than whining about having to pursue women. As a man, you are more likely to die younger because men in general don't care about their health as much as women do, and men in general put off going to the doctor about a health problem. As a man, if you were to consider killing yourself, you would be more likely to use more violent methods, such as hanging or shooting, increasing the chances of successfully killing yourself. As a man, you probably don't know how to check for signs of testicular cancer, or what the symptoms are. As for prostate cancer, it's believed that men will eventually die of prostate cancer if nothing else kills them first.


I heard a comical saying a few days ago that I think relates to your argument. It goes something along the lines of, "Those who work out in the gym live longer than those who do not. The amount of extra time they spend living, is spent at the gym." Worrying too much about staying alive instead of just living sucks the point out of life, don't you think? Look for happiness, not living for the sake of living.




skycloud86 said:


> I guess it depends on how much you want a love life, as I'm an introverted male myself and don't particularly have any interest in a love life at the moment. It could be a factor in depression rates, but I doubt it's one of the biggest reasons.


It does psychologically rank as a human need and if all others are filled, that gap will be all that is left. Worrying about if I am not getting enough sleep because I am studying computers is the least of my worries. 



skycloud86 said:


> You're putting too much emphasis on your lack of a love life, and thinking it's the biggest problem in your life as a man, when I can assure you that it isn't.


It's subjectively the biggest problem because I have a long way to go before any of the above becomes an issue. With Ne, staying somewhat happy is not usually difficult.


skycloud86 said:


> For a start, it might help you with your finding a love life.


I suppose it depends on which emotions you are referring to. Last time I checked, being overly flamboyant in one's emotions may land him a relationship with the same sex possibly, but not someone who is looking for stability. 



skycloud86 said:


> Keeping emotions bottled up is not healthy. Trying to ignore them in order to not appear unmanly is unhealthy.


It is not a matter of bottling them up. I just have no need to cry and whine every time someone does not like me the way I think they should and then continue to go on hour-long rants to those around me. 


skycloud86 said:


> Men generally stay fertile all of their lives, whilst women are usually sterile by their sixties, if not earlier.


So that is how those old geezers do it...


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

celticstained said:


> some men thinking something based on them putting very little thought into the subject somehow best shows what problem (sorry, subjective problem) is "our" biggest, and either idiocy or a subjective mindset shows how we are privileged?


I don't understand what you'e trying to say here.



> have you ever thought that maybe the reason one person speaks of it is because they are going through it, or that they have gone through it in the past and this has colored their view, and that putting focus into something this subjective has to force one to stop putting thought and energy into the other aspects of the problem in general, usually leading to a one-sided or close-minded view--sound familiar?


I suppose that's true.


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

Signify said:


> I heard a comical saying a few days ago that I think relates to your argument. It goes something along the lines of, "Those who work out in the gym live longer than those who do not. The amount of extra time they spend living, is spent at the gym." Worrying too much about staying alive instead of just living sucks the point out of life, don't you think? Look for happiness, not living for the sake of living.


I agree, but I still think we have bigger problems than having to pursue women to have relationships.



> It does psychologically rank as a human need and if all others are filled, that gap will be all that is left. Worrying about if I am not getting enough sleep because I am studying computers is the least of my worries.


Of course, but are you as concerned about your other human needs?



> It's subjectively the biggest problem because I have a long way to go before any of the above becomes an issue. With Ne, staying somewhat happy is not usually difficult.


Why do you think you could only be a long away away from things such as depression, testicular cancer and dying younger?



> I suppose it depends on which emotions you are referring to. Last time I checked, being overly flamboyant in one's emotions may land him a relationship with the same sex possibly, but not someone who is looking for stability.


Ignoring the homophobia, I would agree, although I'm referring to any emotion that is socially unacceptable for men to show.



> It is not a matter of bottling them up. I just have no need to cry and whine every time someone does not like me the way I think they should and then continue to go on hour-long rants to those around me.


That's an extreme, just like bottling up all of your emotions is. 



> So that is how those old geezers do it...


Do what?


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## Roland Khan (May 10, 2009)

Men are from mars and women are venus. Men have it worse because we know there to be no more signs of life on mars, and we know that on venus there are ghastly beings that will destroy us if we don't get all macho'd up



Seriousness: It goes both ways. And as hard as men may have it in some areas. Men are generally expected by society to be a certain way which is just as uncommon amongst all males as is the 'supermodel' image amongst females that they are expected to be. However, when all said is done, I would say the women have it harder. I say this because women's lives are scrutinized by the public and the government, and they are told what they can can't do specifically with their own bodies and these are enforced with laws. Whether or not you agree with these laws or not is irrelevant, because it still directly effects them in a major way.

And even with whatever hardships men can claim to have over women, none of them really stand up to this kind of scrutinization.


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## ThePower (Sep 6, 2011)

SkyCloud, you wake up everyday cursing God that he gave you testicles dont you ? :tongue:


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## Duck_of_Death (Jan 21, 2011)

Being a man is great. Don't listen to these self-pitying fools. 
Go lift some weights or something.

Compared to women, you'll have higher muscle mass, more gray area in the brain (Equals: More logical), shorter life span (this place sucks anyway), less likely to be physically objectified and you're likely to make more money, too. 

And we all know that having money is better than having no money.

The only thing I can think of off the top of my head that makes being a man tough is having testicles. They just dangle there, exposed. You get hit there--you're on the floor sucking up all the air.

It also sucks if you sit on them.
Ouch, ouch, ouch!


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

ThePower said:


> SkyCloud, you wake up everyday cursing God that he gave you testicles dont you ? :tongue:


No, not at all. I'm comfortable with being a male-bodied individual, and even my gender neutrality is more masculine than feminine.


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## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

Vasili Syrakis said:


> Now I can look at women as not an object or a bitch but as another person like me who possibly has to go through more than I do (I see them this way to an extent and it is willed - instinct and looking at breasts is difficult to overcome.)


Probably the best way to look at it (well, aside from the breasts, ha ha!)

I mean, realistically, we're all people first and foremost, with our share of problems that we have to face. Some of us have less problems, some more, and we're all equipped differently to face those problems, but the reality is that life would go much better if we all just looked out for each other a bit in dealing with whatever issues each of us might be facing.


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## Mountainshepherd (Feb 23, 2012)

skycloud86 said:


> Even a woman can train herself to bench 250. What I mean is that we have more physical strength due to higher levels of testosterone.


Duuuur I didn't know that...........read between the lines, or heaven forbid just read....... the purpose of the joke was to highlight how silly a variable you are arguing. You just repeated yourself.


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## Dimensional Transition (Sep 12, 2011)

What's tough about being a man is constantly having to pretend you're tough. Society teaches you you're supposed to be a mean motherfucker who is not afraid of anything and is irrationally self-confident, while pretty much no man can be like that. So you constantly have to fake that confidence, compete with other men, etc.

I struggle a lot with this. I hate it. Girls used to call me cute and sweet sometimes, and I was fine and happy with it, until I realized it was actually an insult. Nobody gave a shit about me. I was getting walked over all the time. I started working out, I started being more critical of others, being just a tad more shamelessly egocentric, and I actually got a lot more friends. Both men and women. Suddenly I am now considered 'confident', while I'm not any more or less confident than I was before. I just behave more like an ass and speak less objectively. Although I try to do it a bit jokingly and elegant. But the thing is, I now don't feel like myself very much now. I'm an objective, calm, kind person by nature. Not some simple-minded fool.

That's what tough about being a man. Constantly having to behave like a dick while you're really not because otherwise you're considered strange and unattractive. If you don't act tough, you'll be treated like a puppet by everyone. If you care about a girl and like being around her, you're a creepy guy. If you act like you don't care, good work!

So yeah. You have to find some kind of middle-ground, where you're still a morally good person but show your assertiveness, energy and lack of fear as much as possible. That's what I'm trying to do now anyway.


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## Mountainshepherd (Feb 23, 2012)

Vasili Syrakis said:


> I've grown up hating women and only recently stopped and started giving respect and appreciation for their existence after realising that they have to go through a lot in their daily lives. If I made this change for ANY reason it would be for my own health. Hating the opposite gender is self-destructive. It made me deeply depressed and lonely.
> Now I can look at women as not an object or a bitch but as another person like me who possibly has to go through more than I do (I see them this way to an extent and it is willed - instinct and looking at breasts is difficult to overcome.)......


This is your error, no one automatically has it worse than anyone else based on their gender. Individual variance, gender is part of a complex situation and does not create the situation most of the time. While I've been replying mostly on the male side due the constant dismissal of their points by others I'm done. Neither side should be making this superior burden claim period. The claim itself is juvenile, uninformed, blame placing, and I'm bloody sick of this victim hood.

The male gender or female gender is only partially relevant to how most of us have lived our lives, for most of us who have suffered or known struggles in our life perhaps those struggles have been changed by our gender, but they have not been caused or removed. Growing up with only one parent is hard regardless of your gender, perhaps harder for a man to not have his dad or a woman to not have their mother but regardless its tough. Yes there are exceptions but for most of us our gender isn't relevant. 

Certain kinds of struggles are gender specific but even they are not consistent across the entire gender. Largely its just that a male in such and such situation faces a slightly different version of the problem than a female in the same situation because we have different tools at our disposal. 

I don't look at a woman and give her some kind of automatic burden of victim hood, because to me that seems even more disrespectful than calling her a bitch, or a object, its patronizing. I judge the difficulty of someones life based on what I know about the difficulty of that person's life. I've known some women who have lived tough lives, some of which were tough in ways a man cannot understand. Conversely I've known men with very tough lives who have gone through amazing hardships that were unique to their being a male.
Their gender doesn't change their struggles or the pain they have gone through, laying claim to their struggles also does nothing for their pain no matter how good it makes you feel.

Why is it a contest? why does one group have to be the bigger victim. If people are being victims at all automatically because of their gender, ratio be damned, then something needs to be looked at. Yet no its always a "well my life is harder so there" contest, while the majority of people making that argument cannot make that claim at all because their lives have been good.

I will say this, I've known two good but very different men who took their own lives because no one cared to realize how their problems were affecting them. Please quite trying to be louder and just listen.


----------



## Playful Proxy (Feb 6, 2012)

skycloud86 said:


> I agree, but I still think we have bigger problems than having to pursue women to have relationships.


Possibly, but value is found subjectively, and given both the question asked and my specific circumstances, it currently takes presidency over things which I do not have to currently worry about.



skycloud86 said:


> Of course, but are you as concerned about your other human needs?


Currently, my other human needs are met.



skycloud86 said:


> Why do you think you could only be a long away away from things such as depression, testicular cancer and dying younger?


I am living a healthy life, exercising, learning new things, and watching my diet. If that in itself does not at least keep away symptoms and I will get it regardless, there really is no point in worrying about it since it is inevitable. 



skycloud86 said:


> Ignoring the homophobia, I would agree, although I'm referring to any emotion that is socially unacceptable for men to show.


It was more of a joke than anything else. And what do you deem as socially unacceptable? If I am angry, I show anger toward what I am angry at. If I am happy, I show happiness. Emotion is just an indicator for yourself and others. Once you identify your emotion, you are left to determine the reason you believe you should show it to others. Do you want sympathy, do you want to warn them to back off, or do you just want to spread the happiness you feel? Society does not accept uncontrolled emotion. Emotion with no thought behind it. Women simply get away with it. It is known as self-discipline. 



skycloud86 said:


> That's an extreme, just like bottling up all of your emotions is.


Assuming I generally do at all. I try to make a habit of getting them out in a way that does not make me come across as a moron. If I am angry, I go work out. If I am irritated at something, I meditate. 



skycloud86 said:


> Do what?


It was a joke.


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## The Great One (Apr 19, 2010)

Dimensional Transition said:


> What's tough about being a man is constantly having to pretend you're tough. Society teaches you you're supposed to be a mean motherfucker who is not afraid of anything and is irrationally self-confident, while pretty much no man can be like that. So you constantly have to fake that confidence, compete with other men, etc.
> 
> I struggle a lot with this. I hate it. Girls used to call me cute and sweet sometimes, and I was fine and happy with it, until I realized it was actually an insult. Nobody gave a shit about me. I was getting walked over all the time. I started working out, I started being more critical of others, being just a tad more shamelessly egocentric, and I actually got a lot more friends. Both men and women. Suddenly I am now considered 'confident', while I'm not any more or less confident than I was before. I just behave more like an ass and speak less objectively. Although I try to do it a bit jokingly and elegant. But the thing is, I now don't feel like myself very much now. I'm an objective, calm, kind person by nature. Not some simple-minded fool.
> 
> ...


I stopped giving a damn about the "manly, tough" image. Fuck the Budweiser and Old Spice commercials!


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## Duck_of_Death (Jan 21, 2011)

Dimensional Transition said:


> What's tough about being a man is constantly having to pretend you're tough. Society teaches you you're supposed to be a mean motherfucker who is not afraid of anything and is irrationally self-confident, while pretty much no man can be like that. So you constantly have to fake that confidence, compete with other men, etc.
> 
> I struggle a lot with this. I hate it. Girls used to call me cute and sweet sometimes, and I was fine and happy with it, until I realized it was actually an insult. Nobody gave a shit about me. I was getting walked over all the time. I started working out, I started being more critical of others, being just a tad more shamelessly egocentric, and I actually got a lot more friends. Both men and women. Suddenly I am now considered 'confident', while I'm not any more or less confident than I was before. I just behave more like an ass and speak less objectively. Although I try to do it a bit jokingly and elegant. But the thing is, I now don't feel like myself very much now. I'm an objective, calm, kind person by nature. Not some simple-minded fool.
> 
> ...


Agreed. Culture's idea of "masculinity" is distorted.
Quiet confidence and personal strength are no longer respected or admired. 
Even if they are the anchors of genuine masculinity.

Those traits are now considered "weird" or "creepy" or "boring." 
Now masculinity is about being dominant and reminding everybody around you that you are.
Every second of every day.

In short, it's about indulging in the same insecurities that propel women to behave in such a way.
What a crock of shit.

Like you, I grappled with this when I was younger.
Don't worry--you'll come into your own.

Don't allow women or lesser males to define who you are.
God knows they rely on other people or external stimuli to define them.


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## Dimensional Transition (Sep 12, 2011)

Duck_of_Death said:


> Like you, I grappled with this when I was younger.
> Don't worry--you'll come into your own.
> 
> Don't allow women or lesser males to define who you are.
> God knows they rely on other people or external stimuli to define them.


Yeah, I suppose so. People will realize eventually.

It's weird being a male in his late teens. Most of the girls go for the superficial cliché. (I must admit that most of the guys do the same thing, though.) I'm not a nerd. I'm not a tough guy. I'm just myself, I do whatever I'd like to. I hang out with people from every 'clique'. I'm confident, but kind and caring at the same time. I'm neither dominant nor submissive. Confidence =/= egocentrism, which is a mistake a lot of people seem to make. I'm not afraid to act silly or make myself look ridiculous. I don't think I'm amazing and better than the world, but I trust myself. Isn't this confidence? I don't get people very much. Because people don't seem to get that, I have to resort to acting a little more dumb, more arrogant, and more immature to keep myself from 'drowning', which is really annoying for someone who can see through most of society's bullshit. But I don't want to be put away as some weird loser either, because that stuff has an impact on you in the long run. The world works in such bizarre ways, really.


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## Erbse (Oct 15, 2010)

Duck_of_Death said:


> Now masculinity is about being dominant and reminding everybody around you that you are.


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## Waiting (Jul 10, 2011)

Aßbiscuits said:


> I am in no way saying it's not tough to be a man, nope. It's tough being human, no matter what kind of human you are, but rich people are better off than poor people, people from first world countries are better off than those from third world countries. See, I met my complete asshole cousin yesterday who treated my sister like absolute shit because she's a rape victim. Let me repeat that. He treated my sister like shit because she's a victim of rape. The guy who was with him agreed.
> 
> So, you're a white male. How could you not see all of the advantages you have in life? I asked him what was so tough about being a male, he more or less said "We have to deal with being accused of rape when females enjoy rape and it's a trivial crime, if even a crime. We're looked at as criminals". That's it? I said "well, the current idea of masculinity is a huge problem. It's as oppressive to males as it is to females", that's surely one of the things that's worse than what happens to few men compared to what women etc have to face that would make being a man so hard. I would consider his example trivial. Even if I haven't experienced it it's not a good enough reason to be so resentful towards women or pass rape off as nothing.
> 
> ...


One line before you mentioned your cousin lunged at him I was thinking "someone needed to stick this guy." So kudos for him, I think that was a righteous effort. In regards to all of that I think that cousin and his cohort are disgusting people. As for whats difficult about being a man I can't speak for everyone, but the show American Dad actually made a brief joke about this:

_Boys?
What's going on?
Why aren't you working?
We don't like working.
We like watching cartoons.
Men don't do what they like.
Men get wives and jobs to keep them from what they like._

For myself, there is a high degree of truth in that. Being a man to me is doing what NEEDs to be done, not what I want to do. Sometimes they are the same thing, most often they are not. Its being responsible and righteous. I understand that in reality, most of the things I want are not necessarily, or not at all good for me. Fighting these desires, keeping them in check and under control everyday, doing whats right even if its painful or could bring harm my way, or even if it could lead to death. That's being a man. For those reasons, its tough sometimes.


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## Roland Khan (May 10, 2009)

sometimes, right in hte middle of a swordfight, it'll go limp. .....awkward


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## Hruberen (Jan 2, 2012)

skycloud86 said:


> This is due to societal conditioning and gender roles. It's not really something that makes it hard to be a man, though.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's always at school, so there shouldn't be any problems, I don't look creepy, and I don't talk about topics that could be strewn as creepy. Even if it is gender roles, it's still difficult, and it only exists for men.


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## Manhattan (Jul 13, 2011)

skycloud86 said:


> Again, this isn't something that's tough about being a man and even if it were, *would only apply to non-asexual heterosexual men who actually care about it.*


You mean most men? You may not care about sex, but most men do. Some women don't mind being put into a submissive role, either. That doesn't make it right, or nullify the importance for the majority of women who don't want that. 



> Think about how she might see you as creepy, and how you can help her not see you as creepy.


Men are more physically threatening. It's not right, but it makes sense that men would appear more "creepy" than women. I would personally be more cautious towards a man approaching me in a dark alley than a woman. I notice how the later part of this quote just assumed he was being "creepy" and did not mention that there may be a gender bias against men in this sense. What's with the bias against masculinity?

Someone: Mentions {tough thing about being a man}
Skycloud86: That's just society. 

Someone: When I drop a paper weight on my toe, it hurts!
Skycloud86: That's just gravity. 

What's your point? The society that we live in is, for the most part, a fact of our life. Patriarchy, matriarchy, it's still something we feel the constraints of. Everyone at once, from both genders, would have to completely change their opinions for a complete change in society. (I say both genders because some women enforce patriarchy as much as some men) That is not going to happen. We must accept the reality of what the world is now if we have any hope of changing it.



skycloud86 said:


> Oh yes, rape culture, sexual objectification, sexual harrassment, loss of bodily autonomy when old male farts ban abortion and contraceptives and so on are nothing compared to being mocked on sitcoms or not having any television adverts marketed towards you.


"That's just patriarchal society" That argument didn't nullify any of those negative aspects for women, did it? It doesn't work for men either. 

And you can't place even half of the blame of patriarchy on some/all of today's men either. (and as I said, some women contribute too) That makes as much sense as blaming today's Caucasians for slavery. All we can do is try our best to fight the world we're in, and be vigilant towards undoing any inequality in rights.


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## alphacat (Mar 17, 2011)

@Manhattan

Sadly, that's just what happened.

This thread was simply the OP asking guys about the things they feel tough about being a guy.

Then it turned into:

A: Answers OP.
Skycloud: Dude, that's BS not everyone go through that.

B: Answers OP.
Skycloud: Women have it waaaay worse!!

C: Lists a personal issue.
Skycloud: Quit whinning!!!!

Somewhere in the second page, it turned into Skycloud's crusade to personally respond to every answer given to the OP and dismiss it as trivial.

It's lile going into a 'what's your favorite movie' thread and respond to everyone by saying they have poor taste.

What this has to do with OP's question, I have no idea.


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## Jwing24 (Aug 2, 2010)

Well to me it seems like the people you talk to who joke about it are low quality human beings, and should not be part of the example as to how men think. 

I think life is tough, as you say, and how tough it is depends on one's perception of their life and their circumstances. I'm sure there are people who have had terrible things happen to them who are positive, upbeat, and move on. Conversely, I'm sure there are people who haven't had much of anything bad happen to them, but they feel their life is miserable, woe is them, and it's so unfair.

It's what you make of it.


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## Ace Face (Nov 13, 2011)

Jwing24 said:


> Well to me it seems like the people you talk to who joke about it are low quality human beings, and should not be part of the example as to how men think.
> 
> I think life is tough, as you say, and how tough it is depends on one's perception of their life and their circumstances. I'm sure there are people who have had terrible things happen to them who are positive, upbeat, and move on. Conversely, I'm sure there are people who haven't had much of anything bad happen to them, but they feel their life is miserable, woe is them, and it's so unfair.
> 
> It's what you make of it.


I'm hoping nobody chimes in with something negative to say about this post. This is the kind of feedback I want and the kind of feedback the OP was looking for. Men, please, keep posting about your perspectives. I would really like this thread to get back on track.


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## Remington (Feb 11, 2012)

nothing is tough about being a man. Women have it harder the we do. We need to be constantly reminded of this, in order to keep us compliant with the status quo. Anybody have a bucket, cuz the bias against men in this thread is about to make me puke :dry:


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## Remington (Feb 11, 2012)

alphacat said:


> @Manhattan
> 
> Sadly, that's just what happened.
> 
> ...


I totally agree with you. @Skycloud is either the biggest troll ever or has major issues with men. I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed this b.s


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## Ace Face (Nov 13, 2011)

Kingsley88 said:


> nothing is tough about being a man. Women have it harder the we do. We need to be constantly reminded of this, in order to keep us compliant with the status quo. Anybody have a bucket, cuz the bias against men in this thread is about to make me puke :dry:


Forget the rest of this thread. Do you have a perspective on the OP? What's tough about being a man? Be honest


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## Remington (Feb 11, 2012)

Ace Face said:


> Forget the rest of this thread. Do you have a perspective on the OP? What's tough about being a man? Be honest


I find it hard speaking my mind about how certain women behave badly, and always being labled sexist for it. I hate the double standards of domestic violence , and how men can't even lift a hand to defend themselves without being sent to prison. Yet women can feel free to swing away, and they are always seen as the victim. Most men find themselves defenceless in situation like this, because they're taught from an early age never to hit a woman. This kind of stuff really gets to me.


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## Roland Khan (May 10, 2009)

We look unpleasant when masturbating.....


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## Ace Face (Nov 13, 2011)

Cover3 said:


> WTF LOL
> 
> 
> another bad thing is when the ''tool'' is limp, pointed down, and for some reason our blood cells travel down south too quickly for us to react.... this is when you gtfo or ...


I LOLed hard... pun intended


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## koalaroo (Nov 25, 2011)

Ace Face said:


> I've heard that some guys accidentally sit on their nuts... lol. How annoying xD


I think I have to dig out the "Nut Bra" 'advertisement' from somewhere.

"Ah shit!"
"Honey what's wrong?!"
"MY NUTS FELL IN THE TOILET AGAIN!"


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## Roland Khan (May 10, 2009)

koalaroo said:


> I thought the only tough part about being a guy was that part when your balls get sweaty and stick to your leg! How awkward that must be, trying to find the socially correct moment to readjust the twig and berries! Gotta be worse than finding the right time to get rid of a wedgie.
> 
> Like, what do you do if you can't reach down and adjust? Do you do a little jig?





Ace Face said:


> I've heard that some guys accidentally sit on their nuts... lol. How annoying xD


Im sure you've seen a guy do this jig before, just didnt recognize it for what it was. Wearing boxers makes this more common, they just sway and go where they please. Most men understand this and will 'adjust' freely, but when women are present or in public for some reason they feel as if they have to resort to the 'jig'.

And yes, sitting on our nuts is an always present risk. It is not pleasant. Just from sitting down we can put ourselves on the floor in pain


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

ThePower said:


> If your saying your gender neutral that means you dont wholly identify with being a man, right ?


Not really, I'm referring more to my gender identity than my biological sex.



> Also what do call feminine & masculine


Society's ideas of the typical female and male.


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## Roland Khan (May 10, 2009)

skycloud86 said:


> Not really, I'm referring more to my gender identity than my biological sex.


Just meaning you have feminine and masculine qualities? I understand and agree with this. Having qualities that are associated with being 'feminine' such as expressing emotions, being gentle, nurturing, passive/receptive, or bleeding from the genitals, can be considered feminine but shouldnt be considered as held to just females, as those are still good qualities to have for either gender. And same goes for masculine qualities. You (and I, as long with plenty of other males I'm sure) will say that you are gender neutral because you possess qualities from both.

Did I understand you correctly?

btw I'm behind you through pretty much this entire argument...not exactly sure I see the reason why all this 'hate' (using that in a very loose sense) is being directed at you.


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## Roland Khan (May 10, 2009)

When it comes right down to it though, the only thing that either gender can complain about (with it remaining gender related) is the concerns about our genitals. That is really the only thing that differentiates us in a civilized world. (without involving gender surgery)


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## lightened (Mar 24, 2012)

having to pay child support for something they do not want. or telling the woman to abort, the woman will go along with the pregnancy just to spite him, and than have the audacity to ask for child support, take him to court and make him spend money on something he doesn't want. the only reason why she went along with the pregnancy was to spit him and make his life a living hell. now society thinks that he is an awful person for doing the right thing, @skycloud86 also, when she cries rape when it was clearly consentual. just because he doesn't want anything to do with her post sexual intercourse, her feeble ego can't stand it, so she runs to the police and has him arrested, forever ruining his life as he is labelled as a "rapist."

when women get drunk and consent to sex, usually asking him to participate not the other way aroun.. and than when sober cry rape. give me a break. evil thing to do.

that is really hard about being a man. dealing with evil, spiteful witches.


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## Dark Flare (Jan 13, 2012)

So has your venting helped? Obviously you did this out of pure emotion to attempt at pulling down men with women. The fact of the matter is to not generalize. It's damn impossible to tell who has it harder. The thing everyone SHOULD (I said should) try and do is figure out how to make life easier for all means of living (Male/Female/Animal). For the record, I treat all women equal with all men unless someone gives me a reason not to. In such, I don't treat them as equals. An example would be I applaud a hard-working woman that moves up in the business world. I do NOT applaud a sexist woman that "throws dirt" at men to "get on an equal playing field." It's complete hogwash. Women have their advantages too. For the record, I am a male that isn't interested in sex at all. I don't find that amusing. I'm almost 18 years old. I care about equality like all humans SHOULD (I said should), and I think men and women can't be compared successfully. Society has a knack for screwing over everyone. Oh, and never go to court if you're a guy. Never get divorced if you're a guy. If you're a male, you must not cry. Bugs? It's your foot, not hers. If you're a man, you MUST have money, because, even when women expect chivalry and extra treatment, you must pay for most things and treat her right. Oh, if you're abused, too bad. Don't call the cops, because they'll just leave. Don't have kids because they can be taken away from you in an instant to a possible unfit mother because she pushed it out of her vagina. If something goes wrong in a relationship, it's the man's fault. A woman can hit a man in the testicles and get away with it. If a man gets blamed for even laying a finger on a woman, there goes his life. Women are treated unfair when it comes to getting jobs. It's ridiculous. Don't forget periods. Either way, we're all screwed.


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## lightened (Mar 24, 2012)

some women are devoid of any real emotion. they will manipulate facts and distort real accounts to suit their needs, run to whoever possesses an ear, and tell them complete lies about the man. they'll cry rape, abuse anything to make his life a living hell.

my mate date one of these. she had sex with him, she asked him, he consented, the next day he was under arrest for supposedly raping her. it went on his record he spent time in jail until his mother bailed him out. he didn't rape her. but her psychotic spiteful act, has labelled him as a rapist and has ruined his life. all because he's rich and didn't want her. that's it.

if a man defends himself from a woman he's abusing her. but if a woman defends herself from a man she will cry "selfdefense!"
women can be vindictive and evil. be careful.


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## Roland Khan (May 10, 2009)

lightened said:


> having to pay child support for something they do not want. or telling the woman to abort, the woman will go along with the pregnancy just to spite him, and than have the audacity to ask for child support, take him to court and make him spend money on something he doesn't want. the only reason why she went along with the pregnancy was to spit him and make his life a living hell. now society thinks that he is an awful person for doing the right thing, @_skycloud86_ also, when she cries rape when it was clearly consentual. just because he doesn't want anything to do with her post sexual intercourse, her feeble ego can't stand it, so she runs to the police and has him arrested, forever ruining his life as he is labelled as a "rapist."
> 
> when women get drunk and consent to sex, usually asking him to participate not the other way aroun.. and than when sober cry rape. give me a break. evil thing to do.
> 
> that is really hard about being a man. dealing with evil, spiteful witches.


Child support for something they do not want, yet they commited to the act of producing that child and had every oppurtunity not to put themselves in such a situation. If you dont want a child then you should probably make sure to let the woman know that before getting her pregnant, believe it or not it may be a wise choice, and it'd be pretty stupid to go thru with the act and get her pregnant and then complain that she wont abort. Now dont get me wrong, I have nothing at all against abortion, but it should be the womans choice, period. Spite has nothing to do with the fact that the man still had the oppurtunity to not create the baby in the first place, and whatever the woman's reasons for keeping the baby is her own damn business, and if that makes the male responsible for it then well....shouldve kept the snake in the basket.

Yeah the whole crying rape thing is rather pathetic, and fucked up, and I agree with you on the fact that that is something tough on the male gender. But some men do just the same to females, but in a different manner. They will play with the emotions of the female to practically just trick them into sex, then abandon them after they get what they want. The problems of sexual roles isnt just a male problem, and although may be different in the way theyre carried out, they're basically the same problem. 



Dark Flare said:


> It's damn impossible to tell who has it harder. Society has a knack for screwing over everyone.
> 
> Oh, and never go to court if you're a guy. Never get divorced if you're a guy. If you're a male, you must not cry. Bugs? It's your foot, not hers. If you're a man, you MUST have money, because, even when women expect chivalry and extra treatment, you must pay for most things and treat her right. Oh, if you're abused, too bad. Don't call the cops, because they'll just leave. Don't have kids because they can be taken away from you in an instant to a possible unfit mother because she pushed it out of her vagina. If something goes wrong in a relationship, it's the man's fault. A woman can hit a man in the testicles and get away with it. If a man gets blamed for even laying a finger on a woman, there goes his life. Women are treated unfair when it comes to getting jobs. It's ridiculous. Don't forget periods. Either way, we're all screwed.


Agreed on most of it. The problems in divorce cases going against the male most of the time is a serious issue imo as well. Mothers will get the children most of the time and the father usually has to settle with restricted/minimal custody and I agree that this is fucked up. When it comes to the children, the father should have just as much right to them and their time and anything to do with their parenting as the mother does. Its also true that a woman can assault a man and if he does anything to defend himself then it is viewed as abusive, even when the woman is being a completely irrational bitch and she can just scream bloody murder and of course the cops will take her side. However unless there is some actual evidence showing that you were in fact abusive, the cops arent going to just arrest you right there on the spot. But yeah, men have it harder in that regard.

I dont think that it is commonly viewed as the mans fault when a relationship goes wrong though. That usually just depends on which side of the relationship the person you are asking is on. And in a divorce if it is known that it was the woman that cheated and broke the marriage, then chances are she's not going to be getting all your stuff. Unless of course she pulls the "He didnt give me enough attention/I was very unhappy with the relationship" card, then chances are you're just fucked unless you can actually *prove* that she is lying, which is actually rather hard to do a lot. Its the same as disproving a god, even though its not or has no evidence of being there, there is no proof that it is not there.


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## lightened (Mar 24, 2012)

@Roland787

and if you tell her this, some women are psychopathic and pathetic enough to poke holes in condoms, or lie about being on birth control. then what?!


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## Roland Khan (May 10, 2009)

lightened said:


> @Roland787
> 
> and if you tell her this, some women are psychopathic and pathetic enough to poke holes in condoms, or lie about being on birth control. then what?!


Well then thats one fucked up bitch. But that's hardly enough to assess that as a problem that the male gender has in general.

Some men are abusive pricks....that doesnt count as one of the problems for women. Thats just a small minority of the gender population.


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## Grunfur (Oct 23, 2011)

koalaroo said:


> Note:
> You can say that about some cultures, but in other cultures and countries the law will favor men.


Yes and I was clearly talking about the culture and particular branch of law that was relevant to our discussion.

Saudi Arabia and Iran favor men and oppress/repress women. Also, women are often paid a lot less. That I think is truly unfair.


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## Paradox1987 (Oct 9, 2010)

koalaroo said:


> I thought the only tough part about being a guy was that part when your balls get sweaty and stick to your leg! How awkward that must be, trying to find the socially correct moment to readjust the twig and berries! Gotta be worse than finding the right time to get rid of a wedgie.
> 
> Like, what do you do if you can't reach down and adjust? Do you do a little jig?


Jiggle around, waddle... Or if you've got the opportune moment, re-adjust your boxers and hope for the best. In jeans, many guys I know (myself included) swear by discreetly adjusting via the pockets lol.


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## koalaroo (Nov 25, 2011)

Paradox1987 said:


> Jiggle around, waddle... Or if you've got the opportune moment, re-adjust your boxers and hope for the best. In jeans, many guys I know (myself included) swear by discreetly adjusting via the pockets lol.


Aha, pocket pool without scoring, eh?


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## HappyHours (Sep 16, 2011)

Oh okay lets go, let me tell you what is so d*mn tough about being a man

1. You want your equal rights, your equal pay, your fair opportunity, and you wanna get ahead in life right? Well we are cool with that except you wanna have your cake and eat it too. You wanna make us pay on dates, you can hit us and get away with it, society has mercy on you and treats you like princesses, oh and most of all, you benefit from affirmative action (White males and Asians do not, FREAKING BS!).

2. You hit us and abuse us, how do we respond? We hit you back we are considered scumbags, we don't hit you back and it is "oh you let a girl hit you haha". 

3. You can easily pull "RAPE" out of nowhere and tell the authorities, we get sent to jail for it. Now if you harass us, we can't do anything about it. And YES, if an ugly looking woman is coming on to a guy strong it is harassment, if a good looking woman is doing it then it is okay (srs!). But seriously, we can't falsely accuse you of anything!

4. You always win in an argument, BECAUSE YOU ARE A FREAKING WOMAN. Oh ya thats right! I married miss right! DIDN'T KNOW HER FIRST NAME WAS ALWAYS!

5. When it comes to wartime, it is mostly men going out there dying for you, can you at least say thanks bitch? We did it throughout history, the 300 spartans, the Romans etc. 

6. You can cry over anything, you get sympathy. We do it? OH WHAT A WUSS.

7. You can date based on looks, it is perfectly okay, if we do it? OH we are such pigs. BIG WOOP. If you are not at my level of looks or if you are a ginger, I ain't screwin ya!

8. You want us to give you "equal" (no not really, you just want an unfair advantage in life) opportunities, YET you want us to hold doors for you, be there for you, protect you, pay for you on dates, apologize for what we did in the f*ckin past (like you had it that rough, well we were fighting our butts off in wars you were back home chilling or screwing other men), and just flat out admit we are a bunch of dumb pigs? Pfft b*tch plz!

9. Outside of pregnancy, you can avoid pain your whole life. As men, we are expected to TAKE PAIN in wars, in fighting, and we are judged by how rough we are. We are judged by how many hits to the face we can take and still stand while you are judged by how pretty your nails are.

10. We have to compete for you in most cases, you don't compete for us.

So be grateful, STFU, and realize that you could not handle a man's life in your body. 

HATERS GONNA HATE!


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## Duck_of_Death (Jan 21, 2011)

HappyHours said:


> Oh okay lets go, let me tell you what is so d*mn tough about being a man
> 
> 1. You want your equal rights, your equal pay, your fair opportunity, and you wanna get ahead in life right? Well we are cool with that except you wanna have your cake and eat it too. You wanna make us pay on dates, you can hit us and get away with it, society has mercy on you and treats you like princesses, oh and most of all, you benefit from affirmative action (White males and Asians do not, FREAKING BS!).
> 
> ...


LOL...I like this guy. Ha, ha!

But seriously. Let's inject some positivity into this depressing thread, shall we?
It may be tough being a man, but placing personal failures on women sure as hell makes it a lot easier.


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## Ubuntu (Jun 17, 2011)

There's nothing necessarily tough about being a man, woman, Black, White, pig, dog, relatively poor (with basic needs met), attractive etc., these are all factors that may or may not contribute to how 'tough' or 'well off' someone's life is at any given moment.



> So, you're a white male. How could you not see all of the advantages you have in life? I asked him what was so tough about being a male, he more or less said "We have to deal with being accused of rape when females enjoy rape and it's a trivial crime, if even a crime. We're looked at as criminals". That's it? I said "well, the current idea of masculinity is a huge problem. It's as oppressive to males as it is to females", that's surely one of the things that's worse than what happens to few men compared to what women etc have to face that would make being a man so hard. I would consider his example trivial. Even if I haven't experienced it it's not a good enough reason to be so resentful towards women or pass rape off as nothing.







People who claim that rape is no big deal are using an arbitrary, external standard ('external' to what rape victims feel) to determine when something is a 'big' deal or not. If someone came up to you and casually patted you on the back while making conversation, most people wouldn't take serious offense to this. If someone came up to you and started groping your ass, most people would take offense because it would be _viewed_ as more personal and intrusive, but there's nothing about either action that warrants offense or invalidates it, most people would say that serious offense over the former would be overreacting because most people wouldn't have the same response. Besides referring to how people respond to either action, it's completely arbitrary to say that one 'warrants' the response that it gets and the other doesn't. People who are skeptical about the idea that discrimination against men can be a serious problem use the same arbitrary, external standards.

The suffering that rape causes isn't warranted because rape is some externally bad thing, beyond how it affects people, that justifies the emotional response rape victims have to being raped, their emotional response is what makes it bad to begin with.


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## Mountainshepherd (Feb 23, 2012)

HappyHours said:


> Oh okay lets go, let me tell you what is so d*mn tough about being a man
> 
> 1. You want your equal rights, your equal pay, your fair opportunity, and you wanna get ahead in life right? Well we are cool with that except you wanna have your cake and eat it too. You wanna make us pay on dates, you can hit us and get away with it, society has mercy on you and treats you like princesses, oh and most of all, you benefit from affirmative action (White males and Asians do not, FREAKING BS!).
> 
> ...


I admire your boldness.


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## JoeChip (Feb 28, 2012)

The worst part of being a man for me constantly having to put the toilet seat up when I go pee. Also, it ticks me off always being the one that has to change the roll of toilet paper.


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## Mutatio NOmenis (Jun 22, 2009)

^ Thank you and hello zombie thread.


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## Wellsy (Oct 24, 2011)

Being so god damn good looking :smug:


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## Convex (Jan 5, 2015)

probably many things for the avg man today

none for me


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## alpharomero2020 (May 6, 2019)

I've got one simple thing to add. 
- Losing all your hair...


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## Mange (Jan 9, 2011)

My dicc is so big I assumed for years that it was a third leg that spits sometimes


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## RyuukoGo (Apr 6, 2015)

No idea.. I gave up being one a while ago :wink:


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## Marvin the Dendroid (Sep 10, 2015)

Durian.


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## crazitaco (Apr 9, 2010)

Obviously the weight of my giant cojones


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## Tropes (Jul 7, 2016)

My left ball is itchy


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## Marvin the Dendroid (Sep 10, 2015)

Tropes said:


> My left ball is itchy


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## Tropes (Jul 7, 2016)

Marvin the Dendroid said:


>


That's a working mating strategy.
You sniff your ball musk in public and women all go:
"what's so interesting about how his balls smell? Now I want to smell it"

That's a ball fact, for testicular trivia.


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## Marvin the Dendroid (Sep 10, 2015)

Tropes said:


> That's a working mating strategy.
> You sniff your ball musk in public and women all go:
> "what's so interesting about how his balls smell? Now I want to smell it"


Is this the voice of experience speaking?


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## Tropes (Jul 7, 2016)

Marvin the Dendroid said:


> Is this the voice of experience speaking?


Once a friend of mine needed to blow her nose, so I went to the bathroom to bring toilet paper, rubbed my balls all over the TP, then she was like, "OH MAI GAWD, I'NG ID LOV".


* *




she married that roll


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## Marvin the Dendroid (Sep 10, 2015)

Tropes said:


> Once a friend of mine needed to blow her nose, so I went to the bathroom to bring toilet paper, rubbed my balls all over the TP, then she was like, "OH MAI GAWD, I'NG ID LOV".


I guess the downside is, you can't pick who will find your scent enticing.


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## Tropes (Jul 7, 2016)

Marvin the Dendroid said:


> I guess the downside is, you can't pick who will find your scent enticing.


Oh I wasn't saying she's retarded, just that she had a cold.


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## Marvin the Dendroid (Sep 10, 2015)

Tropes said:


> Oh I wasn't saying she's retarded, just that she had a cold.


In a more general sense though, like if you rub your balls over the water dispenser at work, there's no telling whether it'll be the hot finance exec or the 300 lbs accountant who will come running.


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## Tropes (Jul 7, 2016)

Marvin the Dendroid said:


> In a more general sense though, like if you rub your balls over the water dispenser at work, there's no telling whether it'll be the hot finance exec or the 300 lbs accountant who will come running.


Come to think of it, I do have a staff member who - if left alone in her shift - the phones and keyboards will smell like pussy. And she often has this deer in headlight look to her when I come in... I'm pretty sure she masturbates in the office.

(true story btw)


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## Marvin the Dendroid (Sep 10, 2015)

Tropes said:


> Come to think of it, I do have a staff member who - if left alone in her shift - the phones and keyboards will smell like pussy. And she often has this deer in headlight look to her when I come in... I'm pretty sure she masturbates in the office.


- So how's that Q3 report coming along?


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## Tropes (Jul 7, 2016)

Marvin the Dendroid said:


> - So how's that Q3 report coming along?


Aww bad timing... We should have being doing this a month from now for the Q2 reports so that the joke is real.


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

Many men’s bathroom from door view seem disgusting

I wouldn’t want to pee next to other dudes


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## ENIGMA2019 (Jun 1, 2015)

Tropes said:


> Once a friend of mine needed to blow her nose, so I went to the bathroom to bring toilet paper, rubbed my balls all over the TP, then she was like, "OH MAI GAWD, I'NG ID LOV".
> 
> 
> * *
> ...


:laughing:


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## ENIGMA2019 (Jun 1, 2015)

Tropes said:


> Come to think of it, I do have a staff member who - if left alone in her shift - the phones and keyboards will smell like pussy. And she often has this deer in headlight look to her when I come in... I'm pretty sure she masturbates in the office.
> 
> (true story btw)


Who has not masturbated at work? :shocked:


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## ENIGMA2019 (Jun 1, 2015)

I would assume sitting on their balls, accidentally hitting them with something or being kicked in them. *shrugs* Other than that...I agree with Sensational although, you guys may not be aware of the slight if you have never been in the female public restrooms.

Puberty wise ~ Uncontrollable erections?


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## Eu_citzen (Jan 18, 2018)

Women, usually.


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## Tropes (Jul 7, 2016)

ENIGMA2019 said:


> Puberty wise ~ Uncontrollable erections?


If puberty continues into your 30s, sure.



ENIGMA2019 said:


> I would assume sitting on their balls, accidentally hitting them with something or being kicked in them. *shrugs* Other than that...I agree with Sensational although, you guys may not be aware of the slight if you have never been in the female public restrooms.


Nooo... I worked in a restaurant and started out by having to clean the restrooms, the women's bathroom was always way worst, toilet papers and used hygiene products everywhere, except for the completely empty and apparently decorative trash can, I'd trade that in for a little piss on the bottom of my shoes. I generally imagine that most street tiles you walk on have being pissed on by something or someone at one point or another anyway. If nothing else, we're at the very least all walking in insect piss all the time.


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## ENIGMA2019 (Jun 1, 2015)

Tropes said:


> If puberty continues into your 30s, sure.
> 
> 
> 
> Nooo... I worked in a restaurant and started out by having to clean the restrooms, the women's bathroom was always way worst, toilet papers and used hygiene products everywhere, except for the completely empty and apparently decorative trash can, I'd trade that in for a little piss on the bottom of my shoes. I generally imagine that most street tiles you walk on have being pissed on by something or someone at one point or another anyway. If nothing else, we're at the very least all walking in insect piss all the time.


 *smirks* No control over your cock at 30+? 

Ahh Now you have converted the thread to benefits of being a man : P


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## Tropes (Jul 7, 2016)

ENIGMA2019 said:


> *smirks* No control over your cock at 30+?


I give it free range between soft to half-mast. 
Although under the influence of some inspirations.. Nope, none at all.


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## ENIGMA2019 (Jun 1, 2015)

Tropes said:


> I give it free range between soft to half-mast.
> Although under the influence of some inspirations.. Nope, none at all.


Is this common or just concealed? Other guys in their 30s deal with the same?


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## Tropes (Jul 7, 2016)

ENIGMA2019 said:


> Is this common or just concealed? Other guys in their 30s deal with the same?


If you pulled down a guy's underwear and noticed the cock was held up by the elastic, it was previously adjusted and concealed - that usually doesn't happen on it's own.

It's not as common as you get older, but from time to time it does happen, the right combination of horny and inspired.


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## Marvin the Dendroid (Sep 10, 2015)

ENIGMA2019 said:


> Is this common or just concealed? Other guys in their 30s deal with the same?


I'm sure they must - I do, and I don't even have a particularly high libido. Sometimes when you get a random boner on a bus or something, pubic hair gets wedged between your body and your dick. It obviously hurts as your hair is being pulled ... so you have to discreetly move stuff around to free those trapped strands of hair. Not an issue if you trim or shave obviously.


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## Lonewaer (Jul 14, 2014)

ENIGMA2019 said:


> Is this common or just concealed? Other guys in their 30s deal with the same?


Both common and concealed. Every guy deals with that to some degree. It's well vascularized, for reproductive reasons, but we don't fuck 24/7, and when we don't, it has to be, hum… provided for in blood. Dick + blood = erection.

I have a creeping suspicion that morning boner is just one of those random (but regular) night boners, and it just happens to be a coincidence that we wake up at that moment, but I have no support for that.


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## Forest Nymph (Aug 25, 2018)

I wouldn't feel satisfied by anything less than murdering my cousin and his equally sociopathic friend. Of course you don't feel satisfied. What you have just described is insanely abusive behavior. At your mother's mass on top of it all. 

Yeah I say time for a new funeral.


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## Forest Nymph (Aug 25, 2018)

La Li Lu Le Lo said:


> I think those Girlwriteswhat videos posted a few pages back should have been the end of this thread. They pretty clearly lay out men's problems.


Oh for fucks sake.


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## Forest Nymph (Aug 25, 2018)

Ubuntu said:


> There's nothing necessarily tough about being a man, woman, Black, White, pig, dog, relatively poor (with basic needs met), attractive etc., these are all factors that may or may not contribute to how 'tough' or 'well off' someone's life is at any given moment.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Right because bruising, bleeding, difficulty walking and in some cases additional forms of injury to other parts of the body are totes emotional responses. 

I'm sorta sorry I entered this vile thread because it's not even trolls like Happy Hours that make it so vile. It's the other people's insidious thought out responses that betray nasty truths about them and what they really think of women. Oh and the assholes on page 410 who thought it was totally appropriate to turn an old thread about rape and abuse into a place to talk about rubbing their balls on office furniture.


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## APBReloaded (Mar 8, 2019)

If I had any advice at all to give at this point, I'd say this: Things aren't as bad as you have them construed in your head, and if you have any concerns, just ask, and ask until you are satisfied. Holding things in because you want to be "nice" will only worry and hurt you more later. For God's sake, don't say things are fine now and then a few days/weeks later say "yeah, about that thing a little while ago" that shit pisses me the fuck off, man!


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