# Ni and Ne - Defined



## Snow (Oct 19, 2010)

Here is a fairly easy-to-understand breakdown of Ne and Ni, after I tried to whittle it down for myself to better understand. The five general categories are: Energy, Ability, Interaction, Focus, and Perception of the two functions, Ne and Ni.

*The Extroverted Intuitive, separate from the other functions:*


*Encouraged by, energized by, and identifier of Metaphors*, be them verbal/written metaphors, physical in nature (such as a train passing by while one is contemplating life, and they associate the train with part of their life), or metaphysical (such as relating a person's personality, spirit, heart, or body to that of an animal. 

*Intuitively or “magically” understands concepts*: may become “suddenly aware” of a theory, belief, or set of ideas as it all comes into perspective, often after some time of introspection or contemplation on the matter, but sometimes suddenly, without warning or cause.

*Enjoys brainstorming/discussing with others*, and values the results as plausible and/or objective based off of the group's reasoning. The group may be of two people: the Ne and the other, or may be with multiple persons. An important distinction is that the Ne respects the outcome as a possibility, and does not altogether disregard it when evidence or fact cannot be easily identified.

*Focused on ideas and abstract constructs*: instead of maintaining a single focus—even one which changes or evolves, as the Ni tends to do—the Ne is constantly in thought of what if and how could. With so many “what-ifs” in the world and unexplained anomalies, the Ne may focus on several at a time until they (usually) come to the broader understanding that something else may be more important to spend time contemplating, or inversely that the underlying issue is larger and inclusive of the first. This is generally a life focus of the Ne, which they experience on a daily basis. (As a 3rd or 4th function this may only influence the Ne's thoughts, and not manifest itself as an “every day” stream of consciousness.)

*Identifies and considers countless scenarios* when looking toward future outcomes, using their logical function (F/T) to invent or discover possible results. The form of “prediction” the Ne wields is primarily in the form of “shotgunning” the audience with numerous possibilities—even when the audience is only themselves. This process may help the Ne or others to identify and react potential outcomes as well, being a valuable tool in many situations.

*Other idiosyncrasies that Ne's share may include:*​
Easily “lost” in the vast amount of thoughts/concepts in the Ne's mind
Identifies multiple meanings or answers behind ideas or problems
Adept at indirectly affecting people or situations by suggesting/redirecting them

*The Introverted Intuitive, separate from the other functions:*


*Encouraged by, energized by, and identifier of Symbolic items*, be them physical objects (like a necklace or charm), an event (such as a rainbow on a particularly emotional day), or even a verbal statement (a friend tells you “I like your hair” just seconds after you were thinking about your hair).

*Intuitively or “magically” understands answers*: may become “suddenly aware” of an answer to a problem, as it comes into focus. The problem could be one related to work or resource management, to family or interpersonal relationships, or even to an obstacle to overcome in one's own self. This may be after some time of introspection or contemplation on the matter, but may also be sudden, without warning or cause.

*Enjoys catalyzing change and encouraging adaptability in others*, allowing for a more “open minded” perspective in an environment. This may be between the Ni and the other, or a group of people in a given environment. The important distinction here is that an Ni enjoys this as a motivation, and believes that others truly desire the overall benefit from the change(s).

*Focused on fulfilling a dream or goal*: this may seem to be more of a Sensory trait, however the Ni is focused on where the Se/Si is moving toward the goal. The dream, goal, or idea may change from time to time, but the Ni has a strong desire to accomplish, achieve, or aspire to reach the dream, where the Ne tends not to maintain specific goals, or their goals are much less concrete in nature/definition. These goals or dreams may guide or help the Ni in their daily actions/reactions.

*Accurately predicts the outcome of events*, relating past and current trends of people or systems to help understand and define the end results. This may come into play when identifying the ramifications when a friend inside a network creates drama, or could be applied toward the work place to “intuitively” (and usually with a high level of accuracy) perceive the net effect(s) of whatever action is taken.

*Other idiosyncrasies that Ni's share may include:*​
Naturally or easily “transcending” situations or problems
Easily identifies trends
May “go to sleep” on a problem to wake up with an answer


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## Matchbook (Jul 8, 2010)

I think that the definitions are pretty accurate and well delineated, and I like the format you chose. I think this has promise.

I am unclear, though, as to whether you are only defining the different types of subjective experiences the Ne and Ni individual has with the use of their Ne and Ni, or whether you are defining how the Ne and Ni operate in objective terms as well, because when you said you were looking at the Ne and Ni separate from other functions, that implied that you were looking at the objective operation of these functions. For example, you said, "The Extroverted Intuitive - separate from other functions," but in the sub-categories you used subjective experience phrases like, "Encouraged by...metaphors," or, "Enjoys brainstorming." So then I become confused as to whether or not you are relating the experience of the Ne individual as they experience Ne with other functions, or likewise for the Ni individual. 

I really like where you are going with this, though. My suggestion would be to keep the format you are using, and then split each sub-category into two, first objectively defining the systematic process of Ne or Ni in that scenario, and then giving the subjective experience of the individual with their Ne or Ni in that scenario. For instance, in the Ni section "Focussed on fulfilling a dream or goal," you could explain how Ni operates to process the necessary elements involved to achieve a goal, and then how the individual is affected by and catalyzed by this process so that one can recognize when Ne and Ni are operating in themselves. You do a good job, though, in describing the experiences.

Or if you are only wanting to outline the subjective experience of Ni and Ne, then you mostly have it on target now, except for the part I was confused about concerning the "separate from other functions" part.

_Editted for clarification..._


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## Naama (Dec 5, 2010)

Lol no, those are general N, not E or I, are not related to functions at all or are just things you stereotypically associate to Ni or Ne dom/aux..


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## MNiS (Jan 30, 2010)

@Revenant That's great that you're attempting to define Ni and Ne...but half of what you wrote about Ne applies to me as well. :\


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## Snow (Oct 19, 2010)

Are stereotypes not potential indicators? I compiled this list based on dozens of descriptions of Ne and Ni I found, identifying the top five I found consistent and found were the most accurate.

Of course there will always be discrepancies in how a person uses their Ne or Ni, just as any other function; the maturity of the function and the "position" (as you mention, this applies primarily to dom/aux Ne and Ni) both affect what a user will see in their own use (or lack thereof). However these are not "general N," and are related to functions, even if they are dominant or auxiliary.


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## Snow (Oct 19, 2010)

MisterNi said:


> @Revenant That's great that you're attempting to define Ni and Ne...but half of what you wrote about Ne applies to me as well. :\


Is it possible that your Ne is a well-developed function of yours? When in high stress environments or in influential situations we tend to develop our shadow functions to a greater extent. The maturity of my functions, for instance, is Ti > Ne > Ni > Te > Fe > all else. I attribute this primarily to growing up with a bunch of INTJ's and working in an "INTJ mode" for the years I spent as a manager. (Frequently trying to use Te over Ti.)


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## MNiS (Jan 30, 2010)

Revenant said:


> Is it possible that your Ne is a well-developed function of yours? When in high stress environments or in influential situations we tend to develop our shadow functions to a greater extent. The maturity of my functions, for instance, is Ti > Ne > Ni > Te > Fe > all else. I attribute this primarily to growing up with a bunch of INTJ's and working in an "INTJ mode" for the years I spent as a manager. (Frequently trying to use Te over Ti.)


Yes, I suppose my Ne usage is good enough but from my understanding Ne strives for divergence while Ni strives for convergence. Striving for convergence is definitely something that comes more naturally to me.


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## Naama (Dec 5, 2010)

Revenant said:


> Are stereotypes not potential indicators? I compiled this list based on dozens of descriptions of Ne and Ni I found, identifying the top five I found consistent and found were the most accurate.
> 
> Of course there will always be discrepancies in how a person uses their Ne or Ni, just as any other function; the maturity of the function and the "position" (as you mention, this applies primarily to dom/aux Ne and Ni) both affect what a user will see in their own use (or lack thereof). However these are not "general N," and are related to functions, even if they are dominant or auxiliary.


Read jugns book 'psychological types' therally and then we can discuss about the topic, you got the basics so wrong that i wouod need to teach you them before i could even start telling whats wrong with this topic and teaching you this stuff is more work than i care to do..

I can tell you one thing tho, there is subjective and objective factor to both Ni and Ne, and whether the N constitutes as extravert or introvert is about which of subjective or objective factor is more trusted one and is seen as the valid factor. Now that you know this, it becomes obvious that there is no Ne and Ni in one person. So if some of those things in Ne apply to Ni user, its a fail description..


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## Snow (Oct 19, 2010)

Naama said:


> Read jugns book 'psychological types' therally and then we can discuss about the topic, you got the basics so wrong that i wouod need to teach you them before i could even start telling whats wrong with this topic and teaching you this stuff is more work than i care to do..
> 
> I can tell you one thing tho, there is subjective and objective factor to both Ni and Ne, and whether the N constitutes as extravert or introvert is about which of subjective or objective factor is more trusted one and is seen as the valid factor. Now that you know this, it becomes obvious that there is no Ne and Ni in one person. So if some of those things in Ne apply to Ni user, its a fail description..


I appreciate the insight and will add that book to my reading list, though I think you could have conveyed it without being condescending.

The original purpose of this thread was to provide an easier answer to the frequently asked question, "can someone explain the difference between Ne and Ni" that I had seen (and had been curious about myself), and was not intended to go into deeper theory. I honestly can't even take credit for this, as the only thing I did was take five recurring themes I found throughout others' descriptions and categorized them here.

Also, if you look at those descriptions I wrote, it is easy to see that subjectivity and objectivity are indeed present.



MisterNi said:


> Yes, I suppose my Ne usage is good enough but from my understanding Ne strives for divergence while Ni strives for convergence. Striving for convergence is definitely something that comes more naturally to me.


What do you mean by divergence and convergence? Ne "identifies with" and "prefers" concepts over results, which could easily be understood as moving toward _various_ concepts (diverging), while Ni is focused more on predicting or understanding possible results (converging). Is this what you are referring to?


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## MNiS (Jan 30, 2010)

Revenant said:


> What do you mean by divergence and convergence? Ne "identifies with" and "prefers" concepts over results, which could easily be understood as moving toward _various_ concepts (diverging), while Ni is focused more on predicting or understanding possible results (converging). Is this what you are referring to?


Sure, allow me to quote Jung from excepts of Psychological Types.



Jung on Extraverted Intuition said:


> Whenever intuition predominates, a particular and unmistakable psychology presents itself. Because intuition is orientated by the object, a decided dependence upon external situations is discernible, but it has an altogether different character from the dependence of the sensational type. The intuitive is never to be found among the generally recognized reality values, *but he is always present where possibilities exist.* He has a keen nose for things in the bud pregnant with future promise. *He can never exist in stable, long-established conditions of generally acknowledged though limited value: because his eye is constantly ranging for new possibilities, stable conditions have an air of impending suffocation. He seizes hold of new objects and new ways with eager intensity, sometimes with extraordinary enthusiasm,* only to abandon them cold-bloodedly, without regard and apparently without remembrance, as soon as their range becomes clearly defined and a promise of any considerable future development no longer clings to them. *As long as a possibility exists, the intuitive is bound to it with thongs of fate. It is as though his whole life went out into the new situation.* One gets the impression, which he himself shares, that he has just reached the definitive turning point in his life, and that from now on nothing else can seriously engage his thought and feeling. How- [p. 465] ever reasonable and opportune it may be, and although every conceivable argument speaks in favour of stability, a day will come when nothing will deter him from regarding as a prison, the self-same situation that seemed to promise him freedom and deliverance, and from acting accordingly. *Neither reason nor feeling can restrain or discourage him from a new possibility, even though it may run counter to convictions hitherto unquestioned.* Thinking and feeling, the indispensable components of conviction, are, with him, inferior functions, possessing no decisive weight; hence they lack the power to offer any lasting. resistance to the force of intuition. And yet these are the only functions that are capable of creating any effectual compensation to the supremacy of intuition, since they can provide the intuitive with that judgment in which his type is altogether lacking. The morality of the intuitive is governed neither by intellect nor by feeling; he has his own characteristic morality, which consists in a loyalty to his intuitive view of things and a voluntary submission to its authority, Consideration for the welfare of his neighbours is weak. No solid argument hinges upon their well-being any more than upon his own. Neither can we detect in him any great respect for his neighbour's convictions and customs; in fact, he is not infrequently put down as an immoral and ruthless adventurer. *Since his intuition is largely concerned with outer objects, scenting out external possibilities, he readily applies himself to callings wherein he may expand his abilities in many directions.* Merchants, contractors, speculators, agents, politicians, etc., commonly belong to this type.





Jung on Extroverted Irrational Types said:


> They are merely in a high degree empirical; they are grounded exclusively upon experience, so exclusively, in fact, that as a rule, their judgment cannot keep pace with their experience. But the functions of judgment are none the less present, although they eke out a largely unconscious existence.


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## MNiS (Jan 30, 2010)

I won't quote Jung on Introverted Intuition as I haven't read that part yet but it's fair to say Introverted Intuition is about the expression of the internal state which is largely symbolic in nature. Jung refers to it as a sort of "mystical trance-like quality" when engaging introverted intuition. He also refers to a product of introverted intuition being the sudden realization of a "vision" of the future. I think most people would call this a premonition.

So although it would require some interpretation, it's not a stretch to say that introverted intuition...especially of the rational types to envision the future and strive to work toward it while removing other discarded possibilities. (Convergence)


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## Snow (Oct 19, 2010)

MisterNi said:


> Sure, allow me to quote Jung from excepts of Psychological Types.


Thanks, maybe I will bump up Jung's Psychological Types as @Naama suggested to my next read. My own Ne is always tearing me away from MBTI though, and toward several other theories I find fascinating and in need of dissection.

It seems to me that this excerpt correlates well enough with the initial descriptors compiled here.


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## MNiS (Jan 30, 2010)

Revenant said:


> It seems to me that this excerpt correlates well enough with the initial descriptors compiled here.


If you're going strictly by Jung, then yes I'd agree.


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## Naama (Dec 5, 2010)

MNiS said:


> Sure, allow me to quote Jung from excepts of Psychological Types.


This is not about Ne, but about extraverted intuitive dom type.


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## MNiS (Jan 30, 2010)

Naama said:


> This is not about Ne, but about extraverted intuitive dom type.


How else would you interpret it?


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## Naama (Dec 5, 2010)

MNiS said:


> How else would you interpret it?


What? Description about type and function are two totally different things..


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## Lunarprox (Feb 16, 2012)

MNiS said:


> @Revenant That's great that you're attempting to define Ni and Ne...but half of what you wrote about Ne applies to me as well. :\


I completely agree! I've been contemplating my J (-j) for a while.


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## MNiS (Jan 30, 2010)

Naama said:


> What? Description about type and function are two totally different things..


How so?


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## MegaTuxRacer (Sep 7, 2011)

MNiS said:


> How so?


Ne in an ENTP manifests itself much differently than Ne in an ISFJ. An ISFJ will use Ne to come up with some possibility to explain a situation where Si fails them. That ISFJ will then integrate that possibility into Si's cache of experiences and cling onto it until it is proven wrong. An ENTP will act just as the descriptor said. It will hone in onto a possibility until the user has either figured it out or abandoned it for a more exciting or interesting possibility. In short, an ISFJ is not going to act on a whim unless he/she has to.

Also, quoting Jung from the passage you quoted:



> Thinking and feeling, the indispensable components of conviction, are, with him, inferior functions, possessing no decisive weight; hence they lack the power to offer any lasting. resistance to the force of intuition.


Sounds like a description of a dominant user to me.

I wrote an article on Ne and Ni where I attempted to separate the function from type to the best of my abilities.

http://personalitycafe.com/articles/84275-cognitive-function-ne-vs-ni.html


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## MNiS (Jan 30, 2010)

MegaTuxRacer said:


> An ENTP will act just as the descriptor said. It will hone in onto a possibility until the user has either figured it out or abandoned it for a more exciting or interesting possibility.


It's pretty clear that Ne is expansive. It doesn't hone onto anything.



> Also, quoting Jung from the passage you quoted:
> 
> Sounds like a description of a dominant user to me.


Would you care to provide your reasoning?



> I wrote an article on Ne and Ni where I attempted to separate the function from type to the best of my abilities.
> 
> http://personalitycafe.com/articles/84275-cognitive-function-ne-vs-ni.html


Thanks for the link.  Although I think you have Ni confused with Ti and your description of Ne is mixed in with a Ji perspective.


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## MegaTuxRacer (Sep 7, 2011)

MNiS said:


> It's pretty clear that Ne is expansive. It doesn't hone onto anything.


Right. I misused "it". The point is that it's manifestation is different in different types. I wasn't talking about Ne specifically. I was talking about Ne in a specific type.





> Would you care to provide your reasoning?


Why would a user with a judging function superior to Ne consider that judging function inferior to Ne?





> Thanks for the link.  Although I think you have Ni confused with Ti and your description of Ne is mixed in with a Ji perspective.


Would you mind being more specific?

EDIT: To clarify I am not saying Jung's description of Ne is not accurate or anything. I am simply saying that it is far more applicable to an Ne dominant user than aux, tert, and especially inferior.

EDIT2: Also look at the first three words of that passage: "Wherever intuition predominates..."


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## Naama (Dec 5, 2010)

MegaTuxRacer said:


> EDIT: To clarify I am not saying Jung's description of Ne is not accurate or anything. I am simply saying that it is far more applicable to an Ne dominant user than aux, tert, and especially inferior.


Thats because that description is for Ne dom type, not to aux, tert or inferior. The Ne function description in tye book fits to others too


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## The King Of Dreams (Aug 18, 2010)

I don't know if anyone ever posted this but I found it to be very helpful.


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## Donovan (Nov 3, 2009)

@MNiS



> Ne strives for divergence while Ni strives for convergence


that is a great way of putting it. 

i was just thinking: Ne wants to redefine what surrounds the object while Ni wants to redefine the object. *(both for further clarification of the object itself)*


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## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

celticstained said:


> @MNiS
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Interesting. I think Ni-Se working together would likely "redefine the object."


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## Donovan (Nov 3, 2009)

JungyesMBTIno said:


> Interesting. I think Ni-Se working together would likely "redefine the object."


lol, yeah, otherwise you're just fixing something that doesn't exist, or fixing nothing in other words--you would be without a link to the realistic world.


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## IdealTruths (Jun 30, 2016)

No, I can't be both. I identify with some Ne, some Ni. 

...Apparently.


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## AnnaKidd (Oct 29, 2020)

Here is a video from Bite-sized socionics series by Encyclopedia Socionika on Ni vs Ne!  Check it out


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

AnnaKidd said:


> Here is a video from Bite-sized socionics series by Encyclopedia Socionika on Ni vs Ne!  Check it out


FYI, this is a 10 year old post.


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## AnnaKidd (Oct 29, 2020)

tanstaafl28 said:


> FYI, this is a 10 year old post.


I just thought it might still be of interest to people, given that a lot of people still can't agree on the definitions


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

AnnaKidd said:


> I just thought it might still be of interest to people, given that a lot of people still can't agree on the definitions


As long as you're aware, I'm good.


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