# Fe vs. Fi Blame



## Tsuki (Jan 9, 2011)

I got an MBTI book, The Art of Speedreading People, and when they were explaining the differences between Fe and Fi, they mentioned that people with Fe tend to blame others while people with Fi tend to blame themselves. (Just to clarify, "people with Fe" and "people with Fi" meaning that either Fe or Fi is somewhere in their primary 4 function dynamic.)

I wasn't really sure about that and I don't even think the book was good, so I'm wondering what you guys think. I asked a few Feeler friends some time before but they pulled some "I blame the person who is to blame" bullshit. I mean, blame is very subjective and there are always instances when it's best not to blame anyone because things just happened to turn out some way, but people end up putting blame somewhere anyway.

Based of off personal experience, I think I've more often seen Fe-ers blame themselves and Fi-ers blame others.  The book's reasoning was that Fe means Feeling is directed outward, therefore likely to blame others, and Fi means Feeling is directed inward, therefore likely to blame themself.

If I were to counter their explanation to support my own observations, I'd say that since Fe-ers value harmony their external world they would be more likely to blame themselves to _protect_ it, and Fi-ers would be more likely to blame others in order to protect their inner world.

Just trying to name some different angles. So yeah. I kinda think it's ridiculous and they don't correlate at all and could just depend on the person, but hey.

Anyway, I hope I have all of my facts right. Your thoughts?


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## Dark Romantic (Dec 27, 2011)

It's more like; Fe will use others to blame you, Fi will use themselves to blame you.


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## LiquidLight (Oct 14, 2011)

I think you're more right than the book.

I have noticed a tendency for Fe-types to point the finger at the external (the media is often the whipping-boy for all the ills of the world), because on some level they recognize they do not impose their own sense of significance on an object, but I think blaming yourself is more a factor of how you deal with introversion (in the sense of how you direct your cognitive energy). 

A lot of Extraverts in general are uneasy about introversion as the self is often a black hole of mystery, if they spend a lot of time being focused on the outside world. The inner world can be a dark, mysterious and scary place. In fact you often hear people say stuff like "I can't believe I did that," or "I dunno what came over me.'-- which begs the question, how can you be surprised by you? Surely if anyone ought to be able to know how you'd act in a situation it would be you. Nevertheless people are often surprised by themselves (this is what Jung would call the highly unconscious person, unaware of their own shadow).

So I think when someone talks about 'blaming themselves' you have to look deeper than just Fe vs Fi because so much more can go into 'why' a person would blame themselves. A Fe-type might in fact, as you say, take the bullet and blame themselves to protect the greater good (this is actually more a manifestation of their ego than the functions, but let's assume this is Fe for the sake of MBTI speak) but the narcissistic Fe type might just as easily say "it's everyone else's fault!" (my parents, upbringing, friends, culture, the media, other religions, etc).


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## MuChApArAdOx (Jan 24, 2011)

Oh a blame game ^^^^^^^^

Turns around and walks back out of the thread.


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## Death Persuades (Feb 17, 2012)

I often blame myself for things, but it's because they are my fault. If it's someone else's fault, I will blame them.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

What? 

No, just no.


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## NeedsNewNameNow (Dec 1, 2009)

Is blame something integral to the feeling functions?

I find it more useful to try to fix a problem rather than figure out who is to blame for it


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## firedell (Aug 5, 2009)

I blame other people more often, because I don't want someone to think my morals are wrong, if I have made a mistake. 

I remember someone telling me, if you can blame someone else, or something else you can get through life. xD


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## Glenda Gnome Starr (May 12, 2011)

I agree with this. I would rather try to fix the problem, instead of point fingers and get into that silly blame game. If I am responsible for the problem, I will try to figure out ways not to cause the same problem again.



NeedsNewNameNow said:


> Is blame something integral to the feeling functions?
> 
> I find it more useful to try to fix a problem rather than figure out who is to blame for it


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## snail (Oct 13, 2008)

I blame whichever person is at fault, but most of the time I do my best to make sure that person isn't me.

For those who say fixing the problem is more important than placing blame, I would like to mention that it is very hard to come to a compromise about a problem when the other person thinks the entire issue is your fault, and is unwilling to change anything about himself. In one of my past relationships, taking the blame meant being the person who was expected to change, even when my partner was the one who had done something wrong. I learned from that experience. I now refuse to take any blame that I haven't earned.


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## NeedsNewNameNow (Dec 1, 2009)

snail said:


> I blame whichever person is at fault, but most of the time I do my best to make sure that person isn't me.
> 
> For those who say fixing the problem is more important than placing blame, I would like to mention that it is very hard to come to a compromise about a problem when the other person thinks the entire issue is your fault, and is unwilling to change anything about himself. In one of my past relationships, taking the blame meant being the person who was expected to change, even when my partner was the one who had done something wrong. I learned from that experience. I now refuse to take any blame that I haven't earned.


I agree with this.. being on the blamed end puts me on defensive mode big time
The part I don't understand is why some people immediately look to blame someone before any questions are asked and start that whole finger-pointing process.


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## possiBri (Jan 4, 2011)

I think blame is probably chiefly affected by level of mental health/personal development. First, I don't like blame, I think it is stupid and a waste of energy. For a long time now I've had the mindset that I need to take responsibility for my actions/choices, because blame does nothing but make a situation about someone else. I can't do anything if the focus is on someone else, but if it's on me, then I can actively make changes. For example: I loan someone money, and then they don't pay me back and I end up missing a bill payment. I have two options:

1) blame the other person for me paying the bill late
2) take responsibility for a poor choice (loaning money I didn't have, etc.)

From there I can then choose to remain stuck, dealing with the same bullshit situations, or, I can learn from past consequences and make a better choice next time. While I don't think Fe/Fi makes a difference about whether or not you blame, like @Dark Romantic said, it can vary the way blame is expressed.


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## NeedsNewNameNow (Dec 1, 2009)

possiBri said:


> I think blame is probably chiefly affected by level of mental health/personal development. First, I don't like blame, I think it is stupid and a waste of energy. For a long time now I've had the mindset that I need to take responsibility for my actions/choices, because blame does nothing but make a situation about someone else. I can't do anything if the focus is on someone else, but if it's on me, then I can actively make changes. For example: I loan someone money, and then they don't pay me back and I end up missing a bill payment. I have two options:
> 
> 1) blame the other person for me paying the bill late
> 2) take responsibility for a poor choice (loaning money I didn't have, etc.)
> ...


It does.. I have no problem accepting blame and saying this is my fault, unless someone jumps at me finger pointing. Then I get defensive and shoot back.

I suppose people try to blame others to try to avoid making themselves look bad. I think what they don't realize is how bad it looks when some act like nothing is ever their fault. I know too many people like that and have zero respect for them.


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## possiBri (Jan 4, 2011)

NeedsNewNameNow said:


> It does.. I have no problem accepting blame and saying this is my fault, unless someone jumps at me finger pointing. Then I get defensive and shoot back.
> 
> I suppose people try to blame others to try to avoid making themselves look bad. I think what they don't realize is how bad it looks when some act like nothing is ever their fault. I know too many people like that and have zero respect for them.


Precisely.


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## FuzzyLittleManPeach (Aug 29, 2011)

My boss will do this thing called blame shifting, where if there is an issue with a customer, he will immediately blame me for it. He says something along the lines of, "Yeah I'd fire her for this, but she's new so I'll let it slide. Here let me give you a partial refund on your purchase." I don't really care either way, because he simply can't accept responsibility for any of his mistakes, and we are both aware of that.

I think when it comes down to a singular task or situation, it is easy to accept responsibility. But who wants to take responsibility for a failed relationship? A culmination of emotion, pride, time invested, etc. all comes crashing down and what do you do? Do you blame yourself for not being good enough for the other person (according to your internal standards), or do you blame the other person for not being good enough for you? (in a mature relationship, both parties would probably take responsibility, but that's not always the case is it?) Just a thought.


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## Genelez (Feb 23, 2012)

Sweet, I expected a function war in here, but so far, there has been none. Let's keep it that way...:frustrating:


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## Femmefatale (Feb 22, 2012)

I'm Fi. And I blame myself all the time, afterwards the thing happened.
In the situation I'm more the kind of person to lash out if core values are getting stepped on/or bottle up my anger towards my attacker and feel that I really am the one to blame. Usually I do something like throwing myself at their feet doing the whole roll into a ball/embryo thing, figuratively ofc. Then I rage about it inside, but later I start blaming myself again.

My ENFP friend.
My Fe friend... well she... hm.... she usually just take it. And blames herself no matter what o_o ....
In the situation and after. Hm... poor thing  She is the one crying when I tell her about bad things that has happened to me. She confessed to a female friend she had that she might be in love with her. The friend was coming out of her shell as gay. My friend was confused about her sexual orientation and just feel great love for people who actually appreciate her for other than her sweetheart nature. The female friend she confessed to reacted by stopping all contact to my friend. My friend blamed herself and tried to make everything ok again. The female friend did meet up with her a couple of times, but never wanted to talk about the confession. She never gave my friend a proper goodbye or explanation. My friend still blames herself for in her words "foolishness". I think that's bullshit. My friend is the god damn sweetest most wonderful and talented person I've ever met. And is the last person to ever deserve something like that.

I've done something similar to a friend I had. The whole leaving without giving a word (not because a love confession from her though). It was a whole other story though. And I will gladly say I did the right thing to the day.

My ENFJ mother:
My mother who is ENFJ. She reacts immediately. And blame everyone who is near her. She doesn't admit fault to specific things that has to do with something she said or did. Shows no interest in admitting blame. She actually usually makes you the bad guy. My stepdad tells me that she blames herself when alone with him, but never in front of others. Makes sense?


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## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

Here's how this goes from my personal experience with my family:

My ISTJ dad is quick to blame no one for mistakes he made and just point to environmental distractions and wield external logic as a form of self-defense (I think him being an enneagram 6 contributes to him being prone to defend himself from attacks, as he has issues being told what to do or being put in place by others - he tends to point to the mistakes of others often to underplay the magnitude of his own (e.g. recently, we were all jumping on him for his unsanitary eating habits, lol, and then, he proceeded to point to my twin as being a worse example, despite this not being the focus of the discussion). He does blame himself for his issues over others though (he doesn't attribute his issues as resulting from others, but rather himself and can beat himself up over this).

My ISFJ mom is pretty balanced in who she blames for her problems, but never seems to have a guilt complex around not adhering to personal values standards to avoid mistakes and whatnot like the Fi users in my family who beat themselves up excessively over mistakes (that would be me and my dad). When it's done and over with, she'll usually start lecturing someone about why it's important not to do (whatever it is that she did), which seems more Fe and maybe enneagram 2 related (I suspect that's her core enneatype so far - helping others not to make those mistakes). She also seems to be more shocked when she messes something up, like her feelings weren't prepared in advance to face what happened (in other words, she doesn't seem to have an Fi system that approaches issues in a specific way).

My INTP twin is the notorious "others blamer" in the family, like when anyone points out her issues, she'll either use logic against it, underestimate its importance or the reactions of others via her logic (and just point out how annoying or irrational you or whoever's blaming her is being), or compare it to the worse failings of others in the past and proceed to change the topic to something worse than someone else did or "always does." She tends to have a ton of trouble owning up to what she did and makes almost everything everyone else's fault (inferior Fe at work for sure, since this is not a mature use of it - to offend others as a form of self-defense, even though my mom will occasionally have much craftier ways of doing this also if her mood is bad enough). If this fails, she lets her feelings fly free and just vents somehow (e.g. "Now everyone hates me!"), then moves on with it like nothing ever happened (she usually finds a way to maintain blame against someone else to her own comfort, but this doesn't result in grudge-holding, which might be an enneagram 6 defense (she's a 5w6)). I wonder how much having limited Fi (which would be the case in INTPs) plays into this, since blaming herself seems to not come easy for her...

As for me, I'm probably the most notorious "me blamer" in my family when mistakes come up (like "Oh shit! Why the hell did I do that?"), and I can pretty much ruin my own day, etc. over whatever it is and get all anal/obsessive about it (my twin hates when I get all rigid about things like this). Somehow, blaming others just makes me feel even more inadequate and venting my feelings to others can be really uncomfortable and feel unnatural for some reason (being an Fi user and having 4 in my enneatype might have to do with this, since I keep my feelings so highly individualized - I tend to be an absolutely notorious feelings internalizer). When I feel that my view can be vindicated though and feel passionately that I disagree with blame, I can unleash a barrage of arguments in my favor, but if nothing's working, I retreat. Being a 5w4 (with a 1 gut type), I can see where there might be a strong correlation between this and my default blaming style. Like, my personal feelings system matters to me way more than those of others in blaming situations, so I take it out on myself. Bringing those of others into it just doesn't affect me in any significant ways most of the time.

So by far, I'm seeing stronger enneagram correlations between blame than MBTI type correlations.


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## Quarosetz (Feb 23, 2012)

I can't be certain but I've noticed a POSSIBLE trend among INF empaths:

INFPs - "You're lucky not to feel other people's pain. My life sucks (and your pain is not important)." [others are to blame for making me feel sad]

INFJs - "I'm lucky not to have other people's pain. Their lives suck (and my pain is not important)." [I am to blame for people feeling sad]


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## Coldspot (Nov 7, 2011)

I don't generally blame anyone for anything that happens unless I'm joking. Things happen that lead you or whoever into a situation where the decision they make they may regret. After everything is said and done, all you can do is work from there because you cannot undo the past.


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## dollybones_90 (Jan 22, 2012)

josue0098 said:


> I often blame myself for things, but it's because they are my fault. If it's someone else's fault, I will blame them.


^^^^^^This. If someone betrays or hurts me in some non-physical way I will initially get angry/blame them. After thinking it over, though, I usually realize that if I had never trusted them or cared what they thought in the first place they could never hurt me so its my fault. Then I feel like shit.


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## Death Persuades (Feb 17, 2012)

dollybones_90 said:


> ^^^^^^This. If someone betrays or hurts me in some non-physical way I will initially get angry/blame them. After thinking it over, though, I usually realize that if I had never trusted them or cared what they thought in the first place they could never hurt me so its my fault. Then I feel like shit.


I've been having trouble lately and I've hurt some people, and I don't put it on them for trusting in me, I put it on myself for being a dick. if someone hurts you, it's not your fault. All humans have that subconscious desire to feel close to someone.


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## paper lilies (Dec 6, 2011)

I generally feel like I am to blame for _everything_.
In high school I was often told by the school psychologist that I "apologize for living".
My own mother always says, "Are you sorry for breathing?"
Someone steps on my foot- I'm sorry.
Unfortunately it lead me into situations where the other person _was_ to blame and because I said sorry they are still blissfully unaware that they've ever done anything wrong. When the school psychologist tried to get me to confront a person who was in the wrong in the comfort of his office, I said something along the lines of, "It's always been what I've been doing wrong... but I don't think I'm the one with the problem here. I think you are. You and your selfishness. I feel like all you do is take and I have nothing left to give you right now and I'd like very much if you developed the ability to think about someone other than yourself..." Now, my school psychologist was thrilled that I stood up for myself, I still felt _horrible_, and the other student just said, "Being called 'selfish' I don't owe you anything." and walked out and yet again I took on the blame for "hurting a person". It's a vicious cycle for me. But I do use Fe and I am more prone to taking the blame for everything. So, I think the original posters "facts" were very wrong.


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## n.yumikim (Jan 20, 2012)

I don't blame anyone for anything. I don't hold grudges either. The worst I can do to anyone is be indifferent to them... and that's because I've decided they aren't worth my time (lack of thought principles, unsound behavior, etc.)

I do chastise myself often... different from blaming. I never say, "this incident is MY fault!" more like "Wow. I'm embarrassing." but it's never a blame.


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## n.yumikim (Jan 20, 2012)

possiBri said:


> I think blame is probably chiefly affected by level of mental health/personal development. First, I don't like blame, I think it is stupid and a waste of energy. For a long time now I've had the mindset that I need to take responsibility for my actions/choices, because blame does nothing but make a situation about someone else. I can't do anything if the focus is on someone else, but if it's on me, then I can actively make changes. For example: I loan someone money, and then they don't pay me back and I end up missing a bill payment. I have two options:
> 
> 1) blame the other person for me paying the bill late
> 2) take responsibility for a poor choice (loaning money I didn't have, etc.)
> ...


^I am exactly with this. If this counts as blaming yourself, then I blame myself. But this merely looks like an acknowledge -> do better next process than a blaming one. To me, it's mostly a Ti thing to register an inconsistency / error and to keep that memo in mind next time.


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## Misha (Dec 18, 2011)

Blame is just a product of defensive mechanism. The diction "blame" is generally associated with negative connotation and most of us wouldn't like to think we do this habitually in our everyday life. However, I am certain that we do this when we are not able to cope with the being labeled as wrong. In other words, blaming preventing our emotional wounds from further harm, but at the same time, serving as a wall or blockage which prevents or hinders from penetrating and healing the wound. 

As @Dark Romantic summarized nicely, Fe users have a _tendency_ to use others to blame the convicted (often through harsh criticism); whereas Fi users _frequently_ use themselves to blame the accuser to defend themselves (often via guilt-tripping). 

In all honestly, the above statement is stemmed from generalization of behavioral typology. But that alone doesn't mean Fi users are incapable of using others to blame you (a form of manipulation), nor Fe users aren't capable of blaming you for attacking their genuine concern or self-sacrifice (also another form of manipulation). 

Basically, blaming can come in a variety of forms, but the two main categories involve fear and unforgiveness. Fear is afraid of being hurt, and unforgiveness says, "I will not allow myself to be hurt."

More predominantly, for Fe users, they utilizing self-pity, or blaming yourself can actually hold onto their hurt and pain in order to gain love and acceptance from others. Self-pity can be rooted in rejection, because the person is attempting to find love and acceptance. Where there is self-pity, there is usually a sense of rejection from others.

The difference between both Fe and Fi users' approach of self-blaming is that Fe users tend to regret of their past actions of starting a conflict; whereas Fi users blame themselves through empathizing the people they hurt. Fe users' regret usually stem from feeling hopelessness of misunderstanding toward themselves from others and Fi users genuinely feel sorry for unleashing their attack on people they truly care under the self-defense mechanism. 

While we are not required to trust others who have harmed us, we need to trust that in every human nature nobody wants to be purely evil. Most blame is a result of miscommunication, wrong projection, and a lack of understanding that we all have our own sets of values and ethical rules. It is also helpful to verbally confess your choice of certain actions through clarity in order to dear down ungodly defense mechanism of blaming self or others.


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## SilentScream (Mar 31, 2011)

I blame everyone including myself.

What type does that make me?


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## knittigan (Sep 2, 2011)

Jawz said:


> I blame everyone including myself.
> 
> What type does that make me?


Type awesome.


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## SilentScream (Mar 31, 2011)

knittigan said:


> Type awesome.


^_^ Why thank you 

Honestly, one thing people forget when speaking about cognitive functions is that they cannot be taken into account in isolation. Fe may give me the "urge" to blame the world first and foremost - but Ni steps right in and forces me to think inward before coming to any realizations about how to verbally express the initial assessment of the Fe - whatever that might be. If Fe-Ne, or Fe-Se leads, then yeah - the blame is almost always external because Fi is a shadow process - and therefore the thoughts surrounding the self are usually negative and it's hard to see why I felt a certain way about something. But another thing about Fe is that it's about respecting other's feelings - and therefore based on the deep inward rationalizations of Ni, the outcome is usually silence in order to "keep the peace". But again - that's also more Enneagramish, honestly. If I withdraw, then I need some other way of expressing my negative emotions - which comes out through music, art, poetry etc. Rarely does another person know what my feelings are and rarely do I choose to express them even if I want to.

Oh - and more often than not, Fe-Ni does make me realize that I am to blame as well - and that's how it really works imo.


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## knittigan (Sep 2, 2011)

Jawz said:


> ^_^ Why thank you


Haha, I love that you actually wrote a legit response to this. I was literally in the middle of being frustrated in another thread about someone making a similar argument about Fe/Fi and then I read your lovely post and it put a giant smile on my face.



> Honestly, one thing people forget when speaking about cognitive functions is that they cannot be taken into account in isolation. Fe may give me the "urge" to blame the world first and foremost - but Ni steps right in and forces me to think inward before coming to any realizations about how to verbally express the initial assessment of the Fe - whatever that might be. If Fe-Ne, or Fe-Se leads, then yeah - the blame is almost always external because Fi is a shadow process - and therefore the thoughts surrounding the self are usually negative and it's hard to see why I felt a certain way about something. But another thing about Fe is that it's about respecting other's feelings - and therefore based on the deep inward rationalizations of Ni, the outcome is usually silence in order to "keep the peace". But again - that's also more Enneagramish, honestly. If I withdraw, then I need some other way of expressing my negative emotions - which comes out through music, art, poetry etc. Rarely does another person know what my feelings are and rarely do I choose to express them even if I want to.


Yeah, Ni's a remarkably good check for unhealthy feeling tendencies. For example, get me mad and I turn into a six year old. My anger comes out in a very childish way (tert. Fi) and it's very, very impulsive (inferior Se). I literally had to look this up because it's just _so_ hilariously accurate in my case:



Sheppard said:


> "We've been friends for twenty years, but what you just said right now is so stupid I can't even look at you. Don't speak to me again. Good day"
> "Wait, what? No, you can't do that, I'm sorry!"
> "Yawn,... you're still here? I thought I said good day."


It's only through giving myself a hypothetical Ni ass kicking that I can stop myself some days :laughing:

To be honest, all of the judging functions (but also perceiving ones, so no smug superiority for the IJs and EPs :mellow annoy the hell out of me at one time or another depending on the situation and depending on the individual.


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