# Order and polarity



## Ananse (Sep 25, 2018)

Can someone explain in a very simplified way the basic Socionical theory regarding the functions?

According to Jung, it should always be either JPPJ or PJJP directed either EIEI or IEIE. It's either Ti/Fe or Te/Fi; either Si/Ne or Se/Ni.

In the case of Socionics both judging functions apparently are supposed to point the same way, which is the opposite of the percieving ones.

No matter what system, the logic always seems to be rather rigid. And none seems to apply to me.

In MBTI terms, I identify as INTP, usually type as INFP, though dominant iNtuition indicates ENFP. However, T/F polarity makes me INFJ, which is confirmed also by S/N axis polarity. Yet -- strongest function is Ne. 

So... conclusion all things considered, is ENTP.

Not very familiar with Eneagram but I typed as 9w8-sx. Socionics personality IEI-Ne, although I may also come out ILE.

The only things I feel sure about is dominant iNtuition -- whether I or E -- and that the Feeling function is directed towards the external world. I would also guess on Thinking being introverted and Sensing being extraverted.




Some tests will show a more detailed result, I use Ni/Se in a way that is not in line with MBTI theory.


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

Ananse said:


> Can someone explain in a very simplified way the basic Socionical theory regarding the functions?
> 
> According to Jung, it should always be either JPPJ or PJJP directed either EIEI or IEIE. It's either Ti/Fe or Te/Fi; either Si/Ne or Se/Ni.
> 
> In the case of Socionics both judging functions apparently are supposed to point the same way, which is the opposite of the percieving ones.


Jung's theory would give more of an EEII or IIEE but not exactly. The alternating stack was not Jung's.
This was in one of his books, an example of a T dom: http://i.imgur.com/kgGkw8O.jpg
where conscious is one attitude and unconscious the other 

the alternating function systems are mostly very sterile from real world observation and more importantly, based on reversing and/or overlooking the definitions of Jung's premises on the attitude, to make them work


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## Ananse (Sep 25, 2018)

So Ne as first function and Ni as second would not necessarily be illogical?

Would that also make me a feeler (as far as such terms are at all relevant) rather than a thinker -- Fe apparently being stronger than Ti?


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

Ananse said:


> So Ne as first function and Ni as second would not necessarily be illogical?
> 
> Would that also make me a feeler (as far as such terms are at all relevant) rather than a thinker -- Fe apparently being stronger than Ti?


If your preference for the attitude E/I is weak and N dom, you could be an NP/NJ hybrid. This will make more sense if you read Jung's writings on what E/I are, as attitudes of adaptation.

It would depend on what you mean by Fe and Ti, because the way these terms are defined in the modern mbti/function theories have mixed behavior traits from the original theory. I've noticed that the way an FJ describes Ti and the way an TP does & behaves are almost diametrically opposites, and the 1st case matches up Jung's premises while the 2nd is reversed, because what they call "Ti" is merely a misnomer for the F+*J* vs T+*P* combos and they just take for granted that they both use so called "Fe/Ti" axis without investigating what the terminology is originally. 

Generally tho, if your F is stronger than T it would make you a Feeler yes. Actual TPs and FPs who type themselves by how they adapt (usually intropunitively) also have similar attitudes when it comes to their opposite functions, so a TP will have FP behaviors when they deal with feelings and vice versa. In the typology communities, people who type themselves FP based on having "Fi" = emotional walls, not emotionally malleable/adaptive etc are really FJs who are not typed J because of the questions in the tests & stereotypes, that cater more to S & T type as they deal with more practical matters and having control over those instead of the emotional sphere which FJs are more interested in.


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## Ananse (Sep 25, 2018)

.


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## Ananse (Sep 25, 2018)

So is there anything about this that you react on? Some personal theories? What would you type such creature? Yeah I know -- spider... But apart from that? No single spider is like the other.


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

What made you decide T over F?
At this point you may benefit more by going over some of the original premises of Jung's theory to differentiate adaptation attitude, rather than sticking to the 8 function system that has poor foundation. There's a thread about E/I in the Jungian forums here that might help.


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## Ananse (Sep 25, 2018)

T has always appeared a slight bit stronger. Recently however -- last few years or so -- usually a slight bit against F.

Also it's about how the types in practice are usually defined and labeled, and how those respective types are supposed to use their functions. The Feeling function of FP is supposed to be introverted.

You mentioned different types having rather opposite views upon introverted/extraverted feeling.

My own personal experience though, is that this particular function is the one where the direction is most obvious -- and true to theory.

More or less every single person I've ever established actual contact with, has turned out to be Fe introverts. This alternating T/F polarity has to me appeared very accurate with more or less all people I've met this far.


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## Wisteria (Apr 2, 2015)

You are getting very confused and overthinking it. If you treat Jung, MBTI and Socionics as different theories you will make your life a lot easier. Its apples and oranges and... peaches ^^


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## Ananse (Sep 25, 2018)

Not really.

More trying to connect things back to my actual question, which is how and why they are different. The respective functions after all described rather similar things.

One system, notice me being a non-social Feeler with strong N and P preferences and types me INFP -- which means secondary N along with Fi/Te polarity (MBTI). According to others, Nx, Fe, Ti, Se defines me ENTP or occasionally INFJ (cognitive functions). A third one either says I'm Ni, Fe or Ne, Fi, occasionally Ne, Ti (Socionics). Then Enneagram makes me 9w8, which as far as I know is rather unusual with any of those types or sets of functions.

__

Any way... I'm not after typing myself or defining my own functions.

I'm trying to understand those systems. How their respective terms are defined and when they overlap, in what ways the one or the other is more or less right.

Ni, Fe, etc, seems to have more or less the same definitions in both systems.

MBTI adds preference to preference and the sum makes a type. Then the direction of the functions is assumed from a theoretical framework.

Socionics tests seem to specify the direction of the dominant function but then assume the rest. Intuition seems to be Introverted, then Sensing too will be so, and both judging functions will be extraverted -- or the other way around.

Functions tests focus on the order and the polarity and therefrom defines which type fits least badly.


The reason I mention my own results, is that they won't easily fit in to any dogma. 
I'm rather sure about the Fe/Ti polarity. Many tests indicate unstable N direction along with clear S extraversion. This part doesn't seem to get along with the systems. I guess that everyone gets a few such abnormalities when the test in case is primarily targeting order and polarity of functions rather than preset types.


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## tangosthenes (Oct 29, 2011)

Socionics splits things up into 4 blocks based on two dichotomies - strong/weak and valued/unvalued. Each block contains a judgement function of one attitude and a perception function of the other attitude. Your base function (strong/valued) has its opposite in your dual function (weak/valued). Your weak/valued and strong/unvalued blocks are both unconscious, so you're not likely to consciously value the opposites of your conscious functions.

So, for example, a Ti base function is an Fe dual function.


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