# FIVE YEARS on this forum and I still can't figure out my type :(



## iNdependent (Jan 12, 2017)

@Saira I saw your response, I saw that you decided upon INTP, I postponed answering and now you’re not INTP any longer...

Before you wrote back, I had started to change my mind from what I had written in my last response (between the 3 options at the time: isfp, entj & intj) towards agreeing with @yq1444 that you are most likely ISFP. I had read from Mbti-notes and had got a better idea of how functions work together. 

However, I could totally see you as an INTP. Functions are confusing, as you said. And there are a lot of factors involved, like maturity of a function: you may use a function a lot, but immaturely, fact which in itself doesn’t say anything about the position of that function in your stack, but it has the great role of confusing you more. 

As an introvert, I really think that you’re a Ji dom and not a Pi dom (an IxxP not an IxxJ). 
I really don’t see you as an Si-dom, and I still disagree with INTJ. I don’t think that ADHD covers all the differences.

The dominant has a love-hate relationship with the inferior and I read that in your late teens-twenties a phenomenon may occur where you’re too sure of your inf function, resulting in thinking it's higher in your stack and in career choices that are bad for you (an INTJ too sure of Se chooses to become a performer and later in life regrets it). So at the time I thought about ISFP, that your strong Te may be this sort of thing.

But INTP could be as well. There’s an overlap between your dom and its shadow (5th function, Te for intp), you identify with some features of the 5th function, so your strong Te could just as well be that. And, unlike the „being sure of” your inferior, which only sometimes happens, this always happens, just that sometimes the overlap is stronger than other times.

Plus, I know 3 people that are Ji doms and there are some similarities; I’d say IxxP is much more likely than IxxJ, and you shouldn’t ditch INTP so easily, because that may be it. Mbti-notes says that you shouldn’t analyse_ how _you behave, but _why you behave that way_, so if INTP explains it, forget about the fact that some people who interact with you think you are an ExxP. 

So if you’re sure about I and T, that leaves: INTP, ISTP, INTJ&ISTJ. 

INTP seems good. If it doesn’t exactly fit, what about ISTP? 
INTP sounds better though, that N is more fluid and much easier to misunderstand; it would explain the situation and the confusion better.


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## Saira (Feb 2, 2012)

Hi, @iNdependent!  I'm always glad to hear your thoughts. You've had so many insightful things to say which, unfortunatelly, took me some time to sink in. You were right about many things. I was so confused, and quite wrong about many cognitive functions. I finally read Jung in my mother tongue and it cleared up many of my misconceptions.

INTP was chosen on a whim, looking at the letters alone, not the cognitive functions, but it's still one of the main types I'm considering. I can't be ISFP because I realized Se is one of my lowest functions (Fe being another I'm sure of), but INFP is possible. You were right about Ne, it is high up. I can also see Ni and Si. I'm undoubtedly introverted, and far too spaced out to be a sensor. It will take me some more time to figure out introverted functions before I could say which one is my dominant, so INxx it is for now. 

How about you? Do you still lean towards INTJ more than INFP?


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## TB_Wisdom (Aug 15, 2017)

> Five years on this forum and I still cannot figure out my type


... doesn't that say a lot to you? Just as little as I can hunt lion in the forests of Canada, or practice downhill skiing in the Sahara desert, you cannot learn typology in a forum filled with unknown people...


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## spaceynyc (Feb 18, 2017)

OP's vibe definitely says xxFP.. way too much emotion and feeling in the words to be an xxTJ

my guess is you're an xSFP


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## ANAXEL (Feb 16, 2017)

TB_Wisdom said:


> ... doesn't that say a lot to you? Just as little as I can hunt lion in the forests of Canada, or practice downhill skiing in the Sahara desert, you cannot learn typology in a forum filled with unknown people...


... I'm actually learning A LOT here, dude. Never have I been closer to getting a GOOD understanding of the workings of the functions.
Do you think maybe it depends on the person? Maybe it's better for others to see real people behaving in a real way rather than trusting the profiles here. I never trust those who say they are already typed, even if they're confident. But regardless of type, the discussions here help me view the concepts from different points of view and I have more material to fill in the gaps with.


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## Saira (Feb 2, 2012)

@TB_Wisdom If I might ask, why are you here if you don't think you can learn anything from a forum? I came here because I don't know anyone irl who's interested in psychology, especially typology, and I need someone to test my ideas with. I don't have very good self-awareness.

Lol, @ANAXEL, your mask looks like a bug astronaut. Awesome. xD


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## Robopop (Jun 15, 2010)

The OP sounds very NFP, likely INFP. It's very common for these types to think they are other types because the nature of FiNe is identifying with the wide spectrum of human experience.


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## iNdependent (Jan 12, 2017)

Saira said:


> about Ne, it is high up. I can also see Ni and Si. I'm undoubtedly introverted, and far too spaced out to be a sensor. It will take me some more time to figure out introverted functions before I could say which one is my dominant, so INxx it is for now.


With this, as Robopop said, INFP becomes very plausible...
But don't eliminate the other 2 (if Fe is really very low) possibilities before you're sure.
Whatever you are, you must have "adapted" to another style which tangles threads when it comes to find yourself underneath what you seem to be.

About using both Ni and Ne, that's only gonna confuse you more, because it happens often for Ni-doms to also use some Ne and for Ne-aux to also use some Ni, therefore identifying with - sometimes - a lot of the traits of their shadow N functions. To the point of not being able to figure which they are. I know this the best, I have the exact same problem. 

Yes, I'm still INxx, I only became a little bit more certain I'm INTJ:
1- I've been reading from Mbti-notes (more accurate & better explained), and the dysfunctional behaviour I've been having fits Se inf grip almost perfectly. In MBTI terms, in the past decade I really seem like an INTJ on Ni-Fi loop, then in Se grip, then back on the loop, then back on the grip. For INFP: Fi-Si loop fits only partly and it doesn't explain many things and the Te grip really isn't similar. Plus what it means to be a Ni-dom mostly fits me, with a lot more points than for Fi-dom.

2- I've read about the enneagram and I became sure I'm a 4w5. I'm really not the way 4s are usually described as, I identify more with 5 as far as descriptions go. But as for childhood causes, 4 fits, not 5, and the differentiating questions (like emptiness vs pain inside, you couldn't survive without knowledge vs without identity) pulled the balance towards 4. (With a very strong 5 wing). Which partly eroded the main argument against INTJ: the fact that I'm too "feelerish" to be a NT. I think much of the emotional sensitivity & artistic inclinations come from the 4 core.

However, I won't "declare" myself an INTJ (yet). I'm not sure of it and, as I said, I've been very dysfunctional and depressed for a long time, I'm not sure how/how much this affects my thought process, maybe making me misread the strength of my functions. 

I'm not even sure that I fit MBTI at all; after all, it's just a theory, for some people it will only fit if taken in its looser terms. (For example: using both Ni & Ne equally: by the theory you shouldn't, but in my searches I found many INxPs saying that they identify with Ni _more_ than with Ne [while being sure of Ji dominance], so take everything with a grain of salt.) I'm perfectly fine with remaining INxx forever, I'm no longer searching intently for some years now, I've been reading about types/functions mostly in order to analyse/understand others and that resulted in clearing up some things of my own.


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## TB_Wisdom (Aug 15, 2017)

Saira said:


> @TB_Wisdom If I might ask, why are you here if you don't think you can learn anything from a forum?


To me it seems like a kind of self-defence mechanism for you to attack me back, but oh well here we go (and this will be the only reply I make of this sort): I'm not here to learn my type. Nor am I necessarily here to learn by asking others. I'm here to gather data (by observing) and offer advice/help to those who are interested in advice. 

I wrote my advice to you in metaphors, which you didn't seem to understand. So let me try another metaphor: If you have lost your hat, and you search in your closet 5-10 times, is it then possible that you're looking for your hat in the wrong place and need to search elsewhere?

In case metaphors is not your type of language, that in itself may be a sign that you prefer more concrete and down-to-earth language. If so, let me put it in more concrete [*S*]ensory language:

If you want to be typed, read books, don't chat on forums. I can recommend "Please understand me" by David Keirsey, or if you're into the abstract I recommend "Psychological Types" by Carl Jung. Truity and MBTI(R) have decent (not perfect, but decent) type tests. That's another quicker but less accurate way.


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## Saira (Feb 2, 2012)

@TB_Wisdom

You're reading too much into my question. I understood your metaphor, and I agree with you to an extent, but I do think people can learn a lot from here. Whether you look at the books (which I've read) or the forum, you need self-awareness first. I don't have it, and that's why I'll find problems whether I search here or in the books or in a solitary cave. Thank you for answering my question, it wasn't a defence mechanism, but genuine curiosity. So, you _are _here to learn something, it's just a different thing than most of us are here for.  Thank you for the advice about the tests.


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## Saira (Feb 2, 2012)

All right, I'm puting an end to this mess (for the third time, lol).  INTP it is! All it took was a fairly good (imo) test which made me realize I really don't value Fi as much as I thought. I won't type the same thing twice, so here's the link to my post, in case anyone cares.

http://personalitycafe.com/cognitiv...-cognitive-functions-test-4.html#post39318274

Another thing that made me accept INTP is the thread about maladaptive daydreaming on the INTP subforum. I thought it was mostly an INFP thing, but those guys proved me wrong. I think I figured out the reason for my low self-awareness. Dissociation ftw. I'm certainly not the healthiest type, dealing with depression and god knows what else for the majority of my life, so no wonder I've been having a hard time figuring it out. But, INTP is probably the best bet.

I know I sound very emotional in my writing here, so much that the majority of you typed me xxFP, but please bear in mind this is not how I usually am in person. It's so easy to be expressive with unknown people on the internet, writing about something you passionately want to figure out. This thread wasn't about figuring out data, but myself, and therefore I sound much more emotional and driven by feelings than I usually am. It's like pouring out everything I usually keep buried deep inside, turning myself upside down. Oh, heck, I probably should have said it in the first post. xD

Thanks everyone who chimed in, and especially you, @*iNdependent*! I can't thank you enough. If there's any way I can be of help to you, please let me know. 

P.S. http://www.typologycentral.com/wiki/index.php/INTP
This is spot-on me... :kitteh: Did these people read my mind? It's the best fucking description I have EVER read. Everything, everything hit me so deeply, I am mindblown. I'm actually shaking from some weird excitement. xD The only thing I completely disagreed with was the supposed love of jazz and discordant music, lol. And I must be only INTP who doesn't like Star Trek. But _everything _else was spot-on.

Yaaay, I finally decided on a type!  I feel so good!


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## Mez (May 3, 2017)

@Saira

You're probably an INFP though. However, I know that by saying this, I'm likely hurting your self-confidence as you've just decided on a type for yourself after investing a lot of mental and emotional effort. Based on my observation, extremely introverted people almost always default to the INTx results on all tests. Tests don't take into account the individual circumstances of people, nor their deviant development, their self-isolation, their shyness and lack of self-confidence.
My recently formed understanding of all INTx types is that they represent the intellectual elite, who have a very powerful natural devotion to intellectual pursuits. I am nowhere near their caliber, despite ALWAYS testing as an INTx or ENTx type. I've grown comfortable to the idea of harboring an F in my type, because if I truly do shake off all of my self-bias, I can be very F-driven despite portraying a very T-ish external shell. Many INF's might appear as INT's, and might feel themselves to be very INT-ish, because the INxx is what grants them their intellectual essence. INxx types don't need the help of T to radiate intelligence. While true INTx's are like the Generals and Marshals of knowledge and intelligence. I'm more of a Major at best. Ultimately I still catch myself sacrificing T for the sake of F-driven ambitions. This actually became very evident once I started replaying my entire MMORPG biography in my head. A melodramatic idealist with a lust for power, fighting for collective goals and protecting the reputation of self and of allies was my central focus, whilst I almost ascetically neglected actual material ingame achievements, neglected all the formulas in relation to calculating best damage/survivability, etc. My main focus was on socializing, leading, manipulating, drowninig in drama.


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## Saira (Feb 2, 2012)

Nope, @Mez, I'm not an INFP. I tried really, really hard to see it (it, and all other Fi types), but it always felt so unnatural. I finally understand why. I repeat this, both to others and to myself as a reminder - BEING A THINKER DOESN'T MEAN YOU'RE AN UNFEELING SOCIOPATH. Sory for the caps, this isn't yelling. roud: And, no feelings hurt, lol. xD This is all like a fun game to me.

Haha, now that I read my early posts, I want to slap myself for being so sure of something I didn't understand well.


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## iNdependent (Jan 12, 2017)

I'm glad you found a type to settle on.


Saira said:


> I'm certainly not the healthiest type, dealing with depression and god knows what else for the majority of my life, so no wonder I've been having a hard time figuring it out. But, INTP is probably the best bet.


I'm more or less the same with INTJ. :wink:



> The only thing I completely disagreed with was the supposed love of jazz and discordant music, lol. And I must be only INTP who doesn't like Star Trek.


My best friend is certainly an INTP and she also doesn't like jazz and any kind of discordant music (her favourite music is melodic (death) metal, because of epic guitars + beautiful melodic line = the best combination for her). And she also dislikes any science fiction, not only Star Trek; she really likes fantasy (Tolkien, G R R Martin etc.). Your MBTI type can't possibly predict that kind of preferences; such type descriptions are based on gross extrapolation and generalization.

The only difference that may exist and I agree with is that NJs may prefer to read real history over fantasy as opposed to NPs, because they can draw conclusions about human nature & the direction humanity will take in the future, which engages Ni. But even that's not an absolute rule.

(I took the typologycentral test just for fun and I got Ni>Ne>Te=Fi>Ti>Si>Fe>Se; 

This test has an advantage over the Keys to cognition one because it makes you choose both the best and the least, but on the other hand it has 2 big disadvantages: a lot less questions, and it doesn't show you the numbers you got for each function, which are the most important because you can have 1 point or 30 points between a function and the next.

Anyway, I don't really trust tests, they first of all rely on objectivity about self and self awareness and if these lack, it doesn't matter how good the test is. But I knew I'm almost dysfunctional through "too much N and too little S", and it showed xD. My Ne shouldn't be that high, though.)


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## Saira (Feb 2, 2012)

@iNdependent So you got INTJ results with INFP close by... +1 point to the test!  Just kidding, but I wonder whether you would see yourself in their INTJ description. I certainly agree with you that typing can't predict preferences, I just wanted to say that this particular description was scarily accurate in my case, the _only _details I wouldn't agree with were those two things I mentioned. I read many INTP descriptions before, and I could certainly see myself in them, but this one managed to keep my attention glued to the screen. I was nodding all the way to the end of the text and when I finished I was literally shaking from some strange excitement. I'm not kidding. xD I felt like those writers dissected my mind. My thoughts feel clearer and calmer now. 

And even if it's not the best test, it was probably the only one that helped me become more aware of what functions I truly use. I think it was necessary for me to compare them side by side. I never did that before, I always considered them separately. For example, it became so obvious I don't prefer Fi when I had to choose between it and some other function (at least I think those were Fi choices; I couldn't always tell what's what, especially Ne and Ni). Perhaps I was simply more focused yesterday when I took the test, but I think what's most important is that I'm starting to accept myself and stop complicating things.


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## iNdependent (Jan 12, 2017)

Saira said:


> [MENTION=428762]So you got INTJ results with INFP close by...


You mean INTJ first with ENFP second, Ne is way above Fi roud:.

I did read the Typologycentral descriptions for INTJ & INFP and I have the same problem as usual: there are elements of both that I identify with, but the balance leans towards INTJ because of _the way Te is used_. INFPs have trouble accepting external standards and hierarchies, while INTJs take them as a necessity and use them actively and I think the latter is exactly my attitude (my problem may be lack of self awareness, I'm not sure I don't misinterpret sth.). I don't know about the Ni description, I didn't feel that "omg, this is me" at all, but I was close to that feeling when I got to the Te part of the description. 

_"Society is, to Te, a large system of interrelated logical relationships, and the system won't function properly unless each member is ultimately responsible for himself. TJs hate being dependent upon or subservient to others, and they pride themselves on their ability to generate more resources than they consume."_

This is exactly me and, as I went down, I started no longer being able to deal with my own self without help and to produce more than I consume, which killed me even more. There was never any resentment against/rejection of Te, it's always been a great part of my engine, it just could no longer be fueled and lubricated properly due to external factors so it lost most of its momentum (I started no longer being able to reach the Te standards), which, in turn, led to the collapse of the whole machine. Unbalanced INTJ fits better than unbalanced INFP, again, because of the way Te & Se are used. The description of Se grip was too frighteningly similar to what happened.

Which doesn't exclude the possibility that I'm seeing myself unclearly and I'm wrong; if I'm INTJ, I find it strange how much I identify with Fi and Ne.

I expected this, it's the same stalemate from the same reasons I knew for years; I took the test 1-just for fun, 2- in order to compare it to the Keys to cognition one & the Similarminds one, and the result was Typologycentral & Keys - 1st place, Similarminds - 2nd.

The best place to learn about cognitive functions & internal type dynamics is still Mbti-notes.



> what's most important is that I'm starting to accept myself and stop complicating things.


This.
It's irrelevant, after all, what type we are, as long as we function. It's why I don't mind INxx: I come off as INFJ by pure dichotomies anyway, so it doesn't really matter. The positive side of searching for your type is that it helps you realise more easily the patterns of behaviour & environments that bring you down and those that make you function better.

(I remembered the very first response I gave you in this thread; I went back and it's very close to the end result, even with the explanation of Fi vs Fe possibilities and the Se red herring:


iNdependent said:


> I thought about ENTP, ENFP as a first level of likelihood, and less likely (do-not-exclude): INTP, INFP, ISTP, ISFP, INTJ.


 It seems I wasn't too far off :laughing: )


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## ANAXEL (Feb 16, 2017)

Saira said:


> Lol, @ANAXEL, your mask looks like a bug astronaut. Awesome. xD


Thank you! 
It only costed 20$ and it's falling apart


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## Saira (Feb 2, 2012)

iNdependent said:


> It seems I wasn't too far off :laughing:


Yes! Since I come off as an extrovert when writing, you guessed it almost perfectly with those ENxPs. I should have listened to you, but I'm a stubborn mule and I have to make many mistakes before I accept something as true.

To me you seem much more like an INTJ than INFP (and what you wrote about Te almost sealed my opinion), but that's only judging from your posts here, and besides, you shouldn't listen to me, you see how confused I am over all this. xD I completely understand if you still can't choose with certainty... My mind clouded again so I'm back to wondering whether I am a cold-logic-valuing, don't-give-a-shit-about-harmony Fi-dom or an unhealthy passionate Ti-dom. 

At least I give people reading this thread something to laugh at. 

I completely understand what you mean by spiraling down. Something similar happened to me, to the point of becoming a ghost of my former self. I always had short excursions into depression, but the last few years totally ate my soul. So, this is probably *not *a good time to type myself. Perhaps we both need to leave this behind for a while and focus on more direct ways of getting out of that damn black hole. I remember what you said about talking about it, but I repeat, if you ever decide you want someone to talk to, I'm here.

Oh, and MBTI notes is absolutely awesome for those who know themselves better, but I find it hard to apply it to myself, and it was very easy to mistype. I read it again these days, and I figured why I saw myself in Ni/Se/Fi/Te stack rather than in Ne/Si/Fe/Ti.




ANAXEL said:


> Thank you!
> It only costed 20$ and it's falling apart




I actually found it, I wanted to buy it to my boyfriend.  He would find it hilarious. So, it's not very good? Oh, heck, it's not too expensive, I might buy it nonetheless. xD


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## ANAXEL (Feb 16, 2017)

Saira said:


> I actually found it, I wanted to buy it to my boyfriend.  He would find it hilarious. So, it's not very good? Oh, heck, it's not too expensive, I might buy it nonetheless. xD
> [/COLOR]


SO, the eyes are coming off, and the inside has this weird glue that some times will stick to your hair.
So, no, it's not worth the money unless you give it a use it wasn't intended for.
Such as:
Me and my friend (he's INTJ) in a car, I'm driving.
He holds the steering wheel and informs me when to brake or accelerate as he steers.
My entire torso is facing toward my window, with the mask on, staring at other drivers.
See their reactions.
It was freaking awesome.
I also wear it when I'm in other social situations and attempt to put it on when they least expect it so that they are taken by surprise.
I use it purely to surprise people or make them uncomfortable.


ALSO
For the sake of staying on topic

In order to tell what type you are, A LOT of introspective thinking is required. A LOT.
I test as ENFP ALL the time (especially in that stupid 16PP website. I hate it. It's so misleading and cruelly stereotypical and they just want your money).
How am I so certain that I am an ENTP?

I noticed how the functions go WAY beyond what the actual human language can describe.
Functions are too internal, too abstract and introverted (they happen inside us only) to be described with labeling words that are meant to tag behavior that is displayed only externally.

So, my best counsel is READ, READ, READ A LOT.
After you read, read between the lines.
What are all the studies attempting to describe? What words do they use and why?
Then after that, the introspective work comes in. Try to see what are your preferences when it comes to thoughts. What causes you to process what and how do you do so?

For example, in my case, I may come of as an ENFP because I actually like people. They fascinate me (I mean... the ones that do. It's also because I am sx variant, so... hehe). I like listening to them. I like talking to them. When they tell me about their problems I actually like to get in their shoes and relate and I'm pretty good giving encouragement.
So, ENFP?
No. When I listen to people attentively, I notice that Ti is at work more than any feeling function. So is Fe. I am processing people logically and categorizing them and attempting to predict their behavior. My love for them is much more agape than it's actually emotionally motivated. And my ability to encourage comes from figuring out something about them and my Fe going all out (so, as you may guess, this isn't 100% efficient. Some times I totally miss the point).
Other than that, there's a lot more about me that convinces me I am Ne-Ti.
So, you may be right about your current type, but keep searching!


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## Saira (Feb 2, 2012)

ANAXEL said:


> SO, the eyes are coming off, and the inside has this weird glue that some times will stick to your hair.
> So, no, it's not worth the money unless you give it a use it wasn't intended for.
> Such as:
> Me and my friend (he's INTJ) in a car, I'm driving.
> ...


Hahahaha xD

Too bad it's so shitty, he would have loved it (what is it with you ENTPs and pranking people in such clownish ways? I love you guys ) I'll take your word for it and find him another gift.

Back on topic:
Thank you very much for the advice! And yes, I've also noticed how hard it is to translate all of this into precise language. Or it's just that most descriptions keep recycling big words without caring to explain what exactly they mean by that. I understood that "feeling" and "thinking" mean precisely that - "feeling" and "thinking" - only when I read Jung in my mother tongue. Not because I don't know the meaning of those words, but because I was so used to descriptions complicating things, it felt too simple to just accept them for what they are. You know, a rose is a rose is a rose. I didn't start off with that perception in mind.

But I don't think reading and gaining more knowledge will make much difference at this point; I'm simply not ready yet to objectively see myself. Never was; when I return to some of my old posts just for fun, I can't believe how much I was lying to myself. And still am. You're younger than me, but if you can use typology to truly understand yourself, to be honest to yourself, I applaud you. I really admire (even envy) people who have well-developed sense of self. I think I'll soon retire from here and go find myself in something more tangible.


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## ANAXEL (Feb 16, 2017)

Saira said:


> I think I'll soon retire from here and go find myself in something more tangible.


Do so! I myself use Jung's principles as a guide to find something that's a bit more "beyond"in order to read better into myself.
I am currently working on a research paper to investigate all those right-brain (or wherever they are) sensations and thoughts we can never put into words but that may be really revealing and insightful to find. I think I'm getting somewhere.
But if you see something else useful and that better leads you to whatever you are looking for, get the heck out of here and go get it! Maybe typing yourself is only a small step to finding out what you really are (which, by the way, if you put what you are into words and find all the necessary labels and identify everything, yes, it humbles you since you're no longer too special, but it grounds you so that you're no longer broken).


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