# A question for those who draw/paint



## cardinalfire (Dec 10, 2009)

I've been drawing for about six months now and I have started to use 'value' (chiaroscuro - light/dark) to create realistic three dimensional drawings. I realised lately that when I look at peoples faces I can begin to see how they will look on the page in terms of shadows and how I would put it on the page. Does this make sense? Do any of you experience the same thing?

For example I could be watching a film or looking at a person and imagine a sheet of white paper beside them and I can see how I would 'copy' it from life to the page. I never used to be able to see this, do any of you artists have the same skill?


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## Garden (Jan 27, 2010)

Oh art history, where I just learned about chiaroscuro this year... My art teacher sucks at teaching art history. =/

Anyways, I know what you mean. Sometimes, when I see what I'm drawing, I imagine how it's going to look like on a piece of white paper. But usually, whenever I do... I end up adding my own shading to random places on what I'm drawing anyways, as if there's a random light source... which is a bad thing, since I'm supposed to shade in what I see and not what I _think _I see.


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## cardinalfire (Dec 10, 2009)

Yeah that's spot on. I'm glad someone else gets this, and it isn't just me, sometimes I post stuff and wonder if I am the only one that gets what I am saying. I don't like to explain myself, I just often assume that people naturally get me. 

Do you do art yourself? or you just doing because school says so? What kind of things do you do that practices this technique? I got it from an art book by William Maughan, which I am still reading.


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## Garden (Jan 27, 2010)

Yeah, I'm like that too. D: After someone doesn't get it, I give up and say, "nevermind."

Actually, I'm currently in high school, and I major in Visual Arts, so for each year in high school, I take up 2 art courses. So, I do art--and definitely like it too, not because of school though. Some of my classmates only major in Visual Arts because they just want to go to the school and not pursue anything in it in the future. =/

However, since I'm extremely lazy [P = Procrastination], I don't create a lot of art, and if I do, it's either mostly on the computer or for a school project. And as for chiarscuro... actually, I haven't thought about my technique up until now. But for me to do the shading, if I'm drawing from what I see, then I immediately end up finding the dark spots and see where it eventually blends it, and from there, I just basically keep building up layer after layer.


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## cardinalfire (Dec 10, 2009)

Do you hold your pencil like a paintbrush? This william guy recommends it, and I have just started doing drawings in that style, I like it feels more fluid, and is... interesting to say the least.


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## Garden (Jan 27, 2010)

I do, or at least I'm pretty sure I do... because I usually don't think about the way I hold a pencil or paintbrush, until you mentioned it. I think that if you're able to hold a pencil a certain way, then you should hold it the same way for a paintbrush too, since you'll have more control over what you paint anyways.


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## windex (Dec 24, 2009)

I think you are starting to "see" as the artist's would say. Do you pay attention when you go out in the world? How shadow hits objects? Do you look at negative space? Do you look at the contour in wood? Chiarascorro(sp) amazes me. I just saw a neat picture with light coming in from a window. Oh, do you ever do this? Draw when you are thinking or looking at someone's face. Do you ever imagine yourself drawing? I used to see shadow on people's face but never got to the shadows on the pages part you talk about. Sounds great.


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## snail (Oct 13, 2008)

cardinalfire said:


> I've been drawing for about six months now and I have started to use 'value' (chiaroscuro - light/dark) to create realistic three dimensional drawings. I realised lately that when I look at peoples faces I can begin to see how they will look on the page in terms of shadows and how I would put it on the page. Does this make sense? Do any of you experience the same thing?
> 
> For example I could be watching a film or looking at a person and imagine a sheet of white paper beside them and I can see how I would 'copy' it from life to the page. I never used to be able to see this, do any of you artists have the same skill?


Yes. I do this constantly, and have since I was a small child.


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## Aßbiscuits (Oct 8, 2009)

That doesn't happen to me :sad: 

But I do notice a lot more, like someone's eye colour, which a lot of people don't know for some reason, they even claim they don't know their own eye colour. Pfft, yeah... :dry:
And when you actually draw, and this goes for everyone, you notice plenty. You see plenty, you learn to look at things different ways and really explore their every aspect. You start to see ugly things have pretty things just by studying it so much. Drawing is a great way for studying things.


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## cardinalfire (Dec 10, 2009)

windex said:


> I think you are starting to "see" as the artist's would say. Do you pay attention when you go out in the world? How shadow hits objects? Do you look at negative space? Do you look at the contour in wood? Chiarascorro(sp) amazes me. I just saw a neat picture with light coming in from a window. Oh, do you ever do this? Draw when you are thinking or looking at someone's face. Do you ever imagine yourself drawing? I used to see shadow on people's face but never got to the shadows on the pages part you talk about. Sounds great.


I do notice a lot, from the fact that someone has had a haircut to the way that my arms could look on paper in mono not colours (yet!!). Sometimes when I look at someone's face I imagine what I would do to put it on a page, though rarely do I look at someone and HAVE TO ABSOLUTELY DRAW THEM if you get what I mean.

I do notice negative space, I didn't before. There are some trees on a hill near where I live and when I walk past them I look at them and see them as if they are paper bits stuck on a blue sheet, a bit like what I used to do way back as a kid in school.

I know what a contour is, though why specifically wood? Is that supposed to be hard?



snail said:


> Yes. I do this constantly, and have since I was a small child.


YAY! I'm so glad i'm not the only one, otherwise I would of been crazy. Which I only do at weekends.



assbiscuits said:


> But I do notice a lot more, like someone's eye colour, which a lot of people don't know for some reason, they even claim they don't know their own eye colour. Pfft, yeah... :dry:


This really made me laugh, I can imagine you saying it in that kind of 'yeah whatever' way. As the woman says to Jim Carrey in Ace Ventura, you make me smile or as Stewie says to Brian 'you're funny'.


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## windex (Dec 24, 2009)

cardinalfire said:


> I do notice a lot, from the fact that someone has had a haircut to the way that my arms could look on paper in mono not colours (yet!!). Sometimes when I look at someone's face I imagine what I would do to put it on a page, though rarely do I look at someone and HAVE TO ABSOLUTELY DRAW THEM if you get what I mean.
> 
> I do notice negative space, I didn't before. There are some trees on a hill near where I live and when I walk past them I look at them and see them as if they are paper bits stuck on a blue sheet, a bit like what I used to do way back as a kid in school.
> 
> I know what a contour is, though why specifically wood? Is that supposed to be hard?


No, I just find it to be a good source to see neat patterns and designs.


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## cardinalfire (Dec 10, 2009)

Oh ok, that's interesting.


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## addle1618 (Oct 31, 2008)

Yeah, I've always had an eye for value. Now I am starting to notice what paint I would use to make certain things in life. It is like relearning looking at the world. Noticing how much titanium white the world really has! lol


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## cardinalfire (Dec 10, 2009)

addle1618 said:


> Yeah, I've always had an eye for value. Now I am starting to notice what paint I would use to make certain things in life. It is like relearning looking at the world. Noticing how much titanium white the world really has! lol


That sounds cool, how do you do it?

I haven't expanded my monochrome eyes yet!


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## windex (Dec 24, 2009)

I have these sweet coloring pencils. They are fun to use. 

Microns are sweet in general. Pen is so fun because it's like you can't help but think of ways to creatively solve problems/mistakes and so there is all this chance of something new happening by accident.


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## cardinalfire (Dec 10, 2009)

windex said:


> I have these sweet coloring pencils. They are fun to use.
> 
> Microns are sweet in general. Pen is so fun because it's like you can't help but think of ways to creatively solve problems/mistakes and so there is all this chance of something new happening by accident.


Nice, have you got any examples you are willing to share and post?


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## humblefolks (Feb 4, 2010)

Man, I've always envied people who can draw well. I paint, but nothing even remotely realistic looking. Interesting thing is that yes, when I look at people's faces, I absolutely can picture in my head, with great detail, how they'd look as a drawing or a painting. But when it comes to actually translating that image onto paper or canvas, it just doesn't come out right, something gets warped along the way. Go figure.


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## windex (Dec 24, 2009)

cardinalfire said:


> Nice, have you got any examples you are willing to share and post?


No, I'm just starting again. I drew a shoe for a class assignment and found it boring. It was ok looking but it wasn't impressive by any standard. Thing is, I realize I won't be that good. I just want something to express myself with visually. 

Mostly, I've free handed and chicken scratch doodled. It's very rough stuff. I used to draw dimensions and things like that all abstract like going into space. Space really fascinates me. People like Kandinsky and Lizzitsky do some very interesting things with space and color. 

If I actually developed a style to the point where I could see it had developed beyond influences, I would share those. But right now, I'm just doodling. Trying to find my groove if I continue to pursue it. 

I'd like to get some air brush pencils/markers(whatever there called) and experiment with that. I've got a wacom pad too. Are you into digital art at all? I keep thinking about trying to synthesize some digital with some regular paintings and see how that goes. 

I really want to try the monodot method that Lichenstein used. I used to draw his Girl With a Hair Ribbon all the time. It's a very interesting method.

Have you made your own paper? It's not that hard. I have this book that shows how to do it. I may start doing it. I think it would be very fun.


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## windex (Dec 24, 2009)

humblefolks said:


> Man, I've always envied people who can draw well. I paint, but nothing even remotely realistic looking. Interesting thing is that yes, when I look at people's faces, I absolutely can picture in my head, with great detail, how they'd look as a drawing or a painting. But when it comes to actually translating that image onto paper or canvas, it just doesn't come out right, something gets warped along the way. Go figure.


It's not a handicapt by any means. It's just a process. Have you read Drawing for the Right Side of the Brain by Betty Edwards? It has good stuff that can help get past symbols and things like that. Tricks to force the brain to see better. All kinds of quotes/anecdotes. It's a fun book in general. 

I am in the same boat right now as you. It's frustrating at times but I've stopped caring. Now I just draw for leisure with no pressure or critic. It's liberating to just let go and not care. My thinking on drawing is that over time the brain transitions into seeing things better and better. I think you have train your mind, visual eye coordination, practice to the point where it becomes this automated type of thing. But I haven't gotten there yet. A friend of mine got past a lot of the obstacles and had a gallery last I knew him. He used that book and reccommended it to me. 

Another friend told me to do lots of gesture drawing. Also, I've been doing the contour drawing thing(once last nignt). Have you done that? Just ball up paper and don't look at your sketchpad and just go real fast without stopping, trying not to outline and just bounce around and break line and repick up. It's a lot of fun and freeing. 

This sculptor said he did a ton of visual exercises everyday when he woke up to get his mind to think visually. I'm going to apply that idea too. To get the mind to start to strengthen from the exercises. Like a brain warm up. On this note, have you ever seen Henry Moore's sketches? They are yet another example of advanced chicken scratch. They are quick and frenetic(the one's I've seen). It makes sense that he does that. I think these quick idea sketches are really where it's at for ideas to develop. 

I bet you could learn to draw and even if isn't 'good', it would be a good way to sketch out ideas quickly and then come back to them. I like the quick chicken scratch type of ideas and then to get to drafting. Or use as a reference even if it only makes sense to me.


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## cardinalfire (Dec 10, 2009)

windex said:


> No, I'm just starting again. I drew a shoe for a class assignment and found it boring. It was ok looking but it wasn't impressive by any standard. Thing is, I realize I won't be that good. I just want something to express myself with visually.
> 
> Mostly, I've free handed and chicken scratch doodled. It's very rough stuff. I used to draw dimensions and things like that all abstract like going into space. Space really fascinates me. People like Kandinsky and Lizzitsky do some very interesting things with space and color.
> 
> ...


Make own paper? Interesting, how is that done?


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## humblefolks (Feb 4, 2010)

windex said:


> It's not a handicapt by any means. It's just a process. Have you read Drawing for the Right Side of the Brain by Betty Edwards? It has good stuff that can help get past symbols and things like that. Tricks to force the brain to see better. All kinds of quotes/anecdotes. It's a fun book in general.
> 
> I am in the same boat right now as you. It's frustrating at times but I've stopped caring. Now I just draw for leisure with no pressure or critic. It's liberating to just let go and not care. My thinking on drawing is that over time the brain transitions into seeing things better and better. I think you have train your mind, visual eye coordination, practice to the point where it becomes this automated type of thing. But I haven't gotten there yet. A friend of mine got past a lot of the obstacles and had a gallery last I knew him. He used that book and reccommended it to me.
> 
> ...


No, I haven't read the book. I gave up trying to learn how to draw, because the experience was too frustrating for me. Instead, I focused on the things that I was good at, which is music and sculpture/modelling.
But I'll give the book a try, thank you for the recommendation. roud:


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