# 4w5 ? 5w4 ? What are the differences ?



## Filraen (Nov 16, 2015)

Hi guys. I just made an ennagram test. The results shows that Im probably a type 4 (4w5). I read it and it fits to me.

They also say that I could be a type 5 (5w4) which fits too. I dont really understand the differenche between 4w5 and 5w4. So, is someone can explain the différences between these two types ?

Thx


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## seriousguy (Nov 27, 2015)

I am not into Enneagram too much, so I can't really help, but I will try.

I am 5w4. In the past, I've related to 4w5 description when I was depressed and sharing my misery on Facebook. Fours belong to the "emotional triad", and some sort of emotional expression is expected from them (whether in a creative form or in person). Fives belong to the "competent triad", which means that they do not want to feel worthless or competent, so they try to learn EVERYTHING about the external world. Both lack general confidence. I haven't met many 4s, but the ones I've met online share their deep insights frequently, and they feel proud in it. When asked about their opinion, they wrote several paragraphs to express how they feel about it. I regularly meet 5s (as a person working in IT field). We are very detached and aloof, depends on the MBTI, we don't go about sharing personal things, rather we talk in abstraction about what we felt at the moment. Do you fear that you have no significant identity? Or do you fear you lack enough knowledge to be decisive? Both 4w5 and 5w4 can be moody and intense.


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## Filraen (Nov 16, 2015)

I'm both D: I can't "choose" who I am.


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## Firemoon (Sep 19, 2015)

Both 5w4 and 4w5 are intense. However, 5w4 is more intense about knowledge, and 4w5 is more intense in emotions. 5w4 kinda fear emotions, they would rather do other stuff to fill their mind but they still like the magical vibe of emotions. 4w5 are a lot more open when it comes to emotions, they won't fear them, in fact, they enjoy their deep feelings. 

--> 5w4 are less aware of their emotions than 4w5 and somehow, less tolerant. 
- 5s would rather "be in control" of their mind than being overwhelmed by emotions
- 4s keep searching for the meaning of life through inner emotions/identity
- 5s keep searching for the meaning of life through inner insight/philosophy 
- 5s need to detach from the world in order to protect their vulnerability or intimacy 
- 4s need to detach from the world in order to find their true inner value
- 5s are usually calmer in a crisis and try to keep their cool
- 4s are reactive and/or very emotional into a crisis 
- 5s hate to see themselves as incompetent, weak or vulnerable...that's why they fear "the outside world" because they don't feel strong enough to confront it and need to observe first 
- 4s hate to see themselves as unlovable, normal or worthless...that's why they can feel depressed at time because they need to find something unique or beautiful in life (or within)

So, in general, if you're 4w5, it means that you have both characteristics but since 4 is your core, your life mission is to discover a valuable and unique identity through your experiences and feelings in life. 5w4s would seek identity as well, but this is not as important for them. They need to observe and analyse literally everything in the world just to reassure their unconscious anxiety. 

Personally, as a 5w4, I like emotions....just not too much or I will fear them. Even positive feelings scare the hell out of me so I try to remain calm at all times. I've a hard time expressing myself too, even if I want to, I just...can't....I've this assumption that 4w5 don't have this kind of problem, not as strong at least.


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## Miss Thevious (Nov 19, 2015)

Filraen said:


> I'm both D: I can't "choose" who I am.


Yeah, same here. Have you read any of the tritype descriptions? I'm pretty sure I belong to the 4-5-1 category but can't figure out the combination exactly.


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## Filraen (Nov 16, 2015)

Thanks for your answers ! 
I think I tend more to 4w5 even I have an intense 5s too


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## Aelthwyn (Oct 27, 2010)

@Firemoon thanks for that detailed comparison! 

It sounds a lot like me and my best friend. As 4w5 I do find it easy most of the time to express my feelings, although I can feel self-conscious about it sometimes or feel like the feeling is too strong for any expression to do it justice or like I just don't have the capacity to express it, so then the experience remains more internal. My friend definitely gets uncomfortable with emotional expressions and is much more concerned about appearing competent than I am.


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## Mizmar (Aug 12, 2009)

Aelthwyn said:


> As 4w5 I do find it easy most of the time to express my feelings, although I can feel self-conscious about it sometimes or feel like the feeling is too strong for any expression to do it justice or like I just don't have the capacity to express it, so then the experience remains more internal.


I'm not a Four, but I experience that as well, where the feeling is so big I don't know what the hell to do with it or how to express it. No words or outer expressions would do it justice so I just don't bother.


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## Fievel (Jul 9, 2013)

I've settled that I'm 4w5 with a very very _very_ strong 5 wing. One of the key deciding factors for me is that I can relate more to 4 integration and disintegration points more than 5.


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## Gorgon (Feb 16, 2015)

Try looking at the instincts of both the 4 and 5. The differences are stark.


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