# Am I ESTJ or ENTJ?



## Beatrice (May 1, 2011)

Up until a couple months ago, I thought I was an ESTJ. Then someone told be that it's unusual for ESTJs to be on forums, and I love forums. But the thing that really made me wonder if I was ENTJ was that the same person said that since I'm SCOEI, I might want to consider that I'm actually an ENTJ. So now I say I'm an ENTJ, but I'm not entirely sure. I think I have more sensing than intuition, but I feel the ENTJ description overall describes me better. The fact that ENTJ are big on controlling things make me think I'm ENTJ also, because people are always complaining that I'm telling what to do or trying to control them.

Also, I'm something of an artist and this seems to explain my art-


> I had an S friend who was very creative, but there wasn't rreally "meaning" behind her creativity. She was a great artist and her innate ability to use color was impressive, but her art didn't really say much about the world, there wasn't really a way of interpreting her work - it just looked really cool. Ns were more likely to be saying something in their work.


How can I tell if I'm an ENTJ or ESTJ? And what does "big picture thinking or detail oriented mean"?

Thank you!


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## phantom_cat (Jan 1, 2011)

ENTJ is Te Ni Se Fi
ESTJ is Te Si Ne Fi

do you energize yourself by possibilities. do you live by "how do you know if you never tried?", and "doesn't hurt to try."
do you rather do nothing (or something that you want to do, or figure out a better way to do that one thing), or work on that one thing even though it'll never be completed, but at least you're doing something.


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## Beatrice (May 1, 2011)

phantom_cat said:


> ENTJ is Te Ni Se Fi
> ESTJ is Te Si Ne Fi
> 
> do you energize yourself by possibilities. do you live by "how do you know if you never tried?", and "doesn't hurt to try."
> do you rather do nothing (or something that you want to do, or figure out a better way to do that one thing), or work on that one thing even though it'll never be completed, but at least you're doing something.


For the first thing about possibilities, definitely. I ask myself that all the time. About the second, I'd rather do something useful that something that wont even be finished.


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## phantom_cat (Jan 1, 2011)

KnowitAll said:


> For the first thing about possibilities, definitely. I ask myself that all the time. About the second, I'd rather do something useful that something that wont even be finished.


the reason I ask is... xSTJ have to always do something. xSTJ are the do'ers. anyone can like forums, doesn't mean you're not an ESTJ.

added: it's kinda like this... someone asks you to do something because you're doing "nothing" (from their view, at least), but you say "why should I do that, there's too much/won't ever be completed/etc. without getting more information of what it is. there could be a far better solution that actually gets that job done, while the proposed solution won't solve anything.", and then they claim "but you're doing nothing". from an N standpoint, I don't think it matters, because N has found a more efficient way of doing that, with doing less work.


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## DMack (Aug 16, 2011)

Do you find yourself naturally wanting to participate in social events, clubs or religious groups? Are brithdays and holidays extremely important to you or could you care less? ESTJs all have a strong social networking drive. Every ESTJ I know likes to "catch up," gossip and chit-chat.


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## slyspy (May 18, 2011)

HOLY SH*T!! I seriously thought the bug in your signature was a bug on my screen. Freaked me out a bit there.


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## Beatrice (May 1, 2011)

slyspy said:


> HOLY SH*T!! I seriously thought the bug in your signature was a bug on my screen. Freaked me out a bit there.


 I know right?! I saw it on someone else's signature and I actually tried to swat it away XD


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## Beatrice (May 1, 2011)

phantom_cat said:


> the reason I ask is... xSTJ have to always do something. xSTJ are the do'ers. anyone can like forums, doesn't mean you're not an ESTJ.
> 
> added: it's kinda like this... someone asks you to do something because you're doing "nothing" (from their view, at least), but you say "why should I do that, there's too much/won't ever be completed/etc. without getting more information of what it is. there could be a far better solution that actually gets that job done, while the proposed solution won't solve anything.", and then they claim "but you're doing nothing". from an N standpoint, I don't think it matters, because N has found a more efficient way of doing that, with doing less work.


 So what you're saying is that xSTJs need to use their time efficiently and they like being busy? Thanks, I was feeling a bit confused.


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## phantom_cat (Jan 1, 2011)

KnowitAll said:


> So what you're saying is that xSTJs need to use their time efficiently and they like being busy? Thanks, I was feeling a bit confused.


yeah, that's correct.


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## Spades (Aug 31, 2011)

I don't think that quote by your friend on artwork is correct. I don't see how S artwork wouldn't convey ideas, especially if they have Fi. Since S's are in tune with the real world, they are generally better at translating their abstract thoughts and ideas into tangible works. It also tends to be more aesthetically pleasing.

As for the SCOEI (I'm that one too!), the Big Five system is *NOT* directly correlated to MBTI. You could get different letters, and N vs. I are only moderately correlated to S vs. N (according to similarminds.com).

Both ExTJ's tend to prefer leading. If you take more of a practical than a visionary approach, you could very well be ESTJ. I would suggest looking up the differences between Ni and Si.

Good luck =)


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## RobynC (Jun 10, 2011)

@KnowitAll

I've wondered about this as well _(not because I like web forums)_ but because I have characteristics of both ESTJ and ENTJ's

@phantom_cat



> do you energize yourself by possibilities. do you live by "how do you know if you never tried?", and "doesn't hurt to try."


I don't know what you mean by energize yourself, but I tend to think about multiple scenarios _(i.e. if I do x = what could happen?, if I do y = what could happen?, if I do z = what could happen?)_



> do you rather do nothing (or something that you want to do, or figure out a better way to do that one thing), or work on that one thing even though it'll never be completed, but at least you're doing something.


Well to pass time, sometimes you do stuff just to deal with the excruciating boredom. But generally I'd rather do something that I think has some chance of being completed.

As for doing something in a more efficient manner, it really depends on the circumstance. If it was something that required extreme precision _(especially if screwing up could, say, get me blown up)_ -- I'd just do things as they are and ask other people "by the way, could you do x,y,z differently?" while continuing as is until I get an answer back. If it was something that didn't require such precision, I'd probably try and see if I could refine the process within reason.

As for stupid regulations, whether to bend the rules into balloon animals, or leave it be, depends on the circumstances. There are regulations that seem stupid but actually make sense when you understand the reasons why they were conceived, though there are some that are just stupid. I think it's important to discern the two and act accordingly.


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## Silhouette (Sep 21, 2011)

(dunno what you are, but that signature is awesome, I almost smashed my monitor screen  )


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## nevermore (Oct 1, 2010)

Do you relate to Si? That's the 7th function in the hierarchy which according to Socionics is our weakest point (I think the Socionics system is flawed and pretentious in a lot of ways but I agree with it on this point). If you don't relate to Si (or get really annoyed with it/feel incompetent at it) you are probably ENTJ. The reverse will be true with an ESTJ; you'll probably be uncomfortable with Ni. If you are than you are most likely an ESTJ with a well developed N. :happy:

How is your creativity? Is it a singular focused vision or is it more random, spontaneous, like a whole bunch of shallower ideas suggesting themselves in the moment. An ESTJ with a strong N could be creative - all of us use all of the functions, the only thing that varies is how pronounced they are - but they'd use their imagination in a Pe way. Go on ENP forums and see if you relate to the dominant mental process there. Then check out the INJ forums and see if you relate to that style of intuition more.

I think putting meaning in art is F, not N. N is imagination, F is a sense of value and emotional meaning.


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## donkeybals (Jan 13, 2011)

I know it's not an actual bug in your signature, but after the comments I couldn't help but trying to flick it off anyway. I know I'm retarded....

Anyway, first impression of you, I'd say entj. It is pretty rare for an estj to want to post on message boards, they are more so traditionalists as opposed to the entj who are "make things work and efficient" type people. Plus, if you are agreeing with the analysis and kind of have a gut feeling that you are an entj, you probably are right. By the way, entj's are really kind of awesome, they'll listen to things if they "make sense" as opposed to the estj who will listen if things are "traditional". Entj "let's do this to make things better" Estj "let's do this because this is the way things have always been".....


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## MsBossyPants (Oct 5, 2011)

How can you tell the difference?

ENTJs are more imaginitive ... thinking outside the box ... inventing or creating new things ...planning for the future
ESTJs are more practical ... great at organizing the box ... improving existing things ... trouble shooting the present

The easiest way to tell the difference is by listenting to their speech patterns.
ENTJs tend to talk about complex subjects, theory, and "what ifs" ..... the ultimate goal
ESTJs tend to talk about practical subjects, applications, and "how to" .... the journey

The best illustration of an ENTJ I have found is the quote by George Bernard Shaw (as paraphrased by John F Kennedy)
"Some men see things as they are and say why. I dream things that never were and say why not"
That's classic ENTJ thinking.


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## Beatrice (May 1, 2011)

Ok, thanks. I'll be changing my profile back to ESTJ.


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