# INTP or ISTP?



## Psychopomp (Oct 3, 2012)

Celebok said:


> I was going to strongly suggest ISTP, until I saw your responses to the questionnaire, plus everything you've written since. I now agree with those who suggested ISFP. It supports the Se that we've all been seeing in your comments, but I also see Fi in your value statements, and your communication style is closer to Se+Te than Se+Fe. You probably just hadn't considered ISFP because you've only scored ISTP and INTP on tests, but most online personality tests are somewhat unreliable, especially for people who've developed a persona due to various influences in their lives. But ISFP would also explain your not relating to certain ISTP common traits, such as not wanting to do things yourself. I'm not ruling out ISTP entirely, but I'm quite certain you're not an INTP.
> 
> I'd like to know what you think about what's been said so far. You said you're interested in hearing convincing arguments, and people have presented you with some decent arguments for ISTP and ISFP, but you haven't really commented on those. Based on what's been said so far, what are your current reasons for doubting one type over another?



This could be quite true, actually. Am I foiled by an ISFP yet again?!


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## Cristy0505 (Oct 8, 2012)

_"Here are some other characteristics. ISFPs… 
__ _Are often creative and skilled in a variety of practical disciplines serving people and nature. 
_ _Tend to be shy about offering their services. 
_ _Often sell themselves short. As a result, almost any compliment an ISFP receives can be dismissed as "not really meant" or "just an accident." 
_ _May be unconventional in their approach to problem-solving. They see the clearest way to do something and then simply do it, often to the dismay of others who prefer to follow prescribed methods. 
_ _Are sometimes oblivious to the "standard" way. They may be puzzled why anyone would consider doing something in a way that is obviously cumbersome and impractical. "

Oh... Am I that sweet? ;P


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## Celebok (Jun 21, 2012)

Cristy0505 said:


> @_Celebok_ Before I answer I would like you to read these and answer me if are these correct.
> 
> As I said before I'm new to this thing and my info are based on what I've been reading over internet for last 3 weeks so I couldn't tell since I've read about INFP being healers of world trying to make world a better place and I couldn't care less about that.
> I have too many problems to worry about my own life that I couldn't worry about other's matters.
> ...


I only briefly glanced at one of the profiles to see what sort of content they contain, and I know that I don't have to read the entire profiles to know that no such profile is ever going to be 100% accurate in describing every person of that personality type. Those profile descriptions are just general guidelines to describe the tendencies of each type. No matter what your type is, you will find ways in which you don't quite fit the description.

Instead of relying completely on a profile description to tell you exactly what your type is, it would be better to allow us to help you break down the traits that you relate to and don't relate to. We've already gotten some good readings of you to narrow down your type, so why don't we focus on those, see what aspects you agree or disagree with, and go from there.

I don't know why you mentioned INFP, either. Nobody has suggested INFP as your type.

By the way, the fact that your desired approach seems to be to look for the one all-encompassing answer that you hope exists somewhere, rather than analyze the evidence that's been given to you so far to try to figure out what you can, that tells me you don't have a preference for Ti, which is just more evidence against both ISTP and INTP, and more evidence for ISFP.


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## Maybe Mercury (Apr 1, 2012)

It is a little weird for Fi-doms, cos they come in so many flavors (any introvert to a certain extent). One I know is so down to earth and practical, I forget she is an Fi-Dom until I violate one of her values. The other I know is quite Fi and I have a very hard time forgetting that. But he also gives practical advice whenever I need it. Maybe on the tests you took, the sensing and thinking descriptions were kinda ambiguous and the functions were easily confused.

Your policy for absolute honesty and the firmness with which you stand up for your beliefs is much more Fi-Te than Ti-Fe. Especially with IxTPs and their inferior Fe, we don't usually do that. With our dominant Ti we don't really have the deep set of values that Fi-doms have, nor the conviction with which to enforce them like IxFPs do with their inferior Te.

ISFP is certainly a possibility.


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## Psychopomp (Oct 3, 2012)

Celebok said:


> By the way, the fact that your desired approach seems to be to look for the one all-encompassing answer that you hope exists somewhere, rather than analyze the evidence that's been given to you so far to try to figure out what you can, that tells me you don't have a preference for Ti, which is just more evidence against both ISTP and INTP, and more evidence for ISFP.


Very astute.


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## Jabberbroccoli (Mar 19, 2011)

ISTP, because of the LOTR bit and surrounding paragraphs.


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## Cristy0505 (Oct 8, 2012)

Look how could I tell I'm this or that since from when I joined here countless people came to say the descriptions I've read around aren't accurate?
If all the idea I have about types are everything I've researched over internet... 
I got really confused about it.
First time I was feeling lazy to answer the 93 questions on inspiira.org site then I just went wikipedia and separed the letters: E from I, S from N, F from T and P from J. It made sense to me and seemed way so easier. I got ISTP then.
After that when I was bored on work I did inspiira org test. Loved the description and how it sounded like me and then started to do every online test I found and started to get two scores then I got confused and came here to ask.

At begin I was bothered about not knowing which and by hearing descriptions aren't accurate I started to lose the will to figure it out. I had no base anymore to tell a thing from another and I couldn't even tell MBTI thing was that accurate no longer... Now I am starting to really reject entire idea. Too much work for nothing lol

I've read somewhere somebody saying to read Jung's book but then I'm not going to buy a book just to check that out and while I love reading books I do not like books that don't have a history to tell. I've read many and many books but most of them were books of fantasy or mystery or fiction or investigation...

*edit* BUT Enneagram 8w9 sounded alot like me I'll stick to this.

And about INFP I was leaving work and mistyped it, it was meant to be ISFP. I been reading about it before leaving work. It was saying they peaceful harmony people and as you people tell it's not accurate I couldn't tell if my type is that. One thing I know for sure I'm not peaceful, I'm not giving person or alot helpful. 
I've read somewhere here somebody telling we must admit our ugly and I totally admit my darkside in fact I know better my bad side than the good. I'm no caring person, I'm no passionate person I don't even care for my parents. As you seem to made to mind up, it's okay for me because it would not change a thing. I wish I was idealist, I wish I would try to make world a better place and I wish I could care more for people because I know people that cares to me gets upset by the way I am... but I'm not this kind of person. I am selfish, ambitious, careless person.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Cristy0505 said:


> Look how could I tell I'm this or that since from when I joined here countless people came to say the descriptions I've read around aren't accurate?


Descriptions are generalized stereotypes so why do you get hung up on that as a way to type yourself?


> If all the idea I have about types are everything I've researched over internet...
> I got really confused about it.
> First time I was feeling lazy to answer the 93 questions on inspiira.org site then I just went wikipedia and separed the letters: E from I, S from N, F from T and P from J. It made sense to me and seemed way so easier. I got ISTP then.
> After that when I was bored on work I did inspiira org test. Loved the description and how it sounded like me and then started to do every online test I found and started to get two scores then I got confused and came here to ask.
> ...


You need to look into and research functions, not read descriptions of types or do online tests. 


> I've read somewhere somebody saying to read Jung's book but then I'm not going to buy a book just to check that out and while I love reading books I do not like books that don't have a history to tell. I've read many and many books but most of them were books of fantasy or mystery or fiction or investigation...


You don't have to. I haven't read a single bit of Jung. A lot of information is floating around this site.


> *edit* BUT Enneagram 8w9 sounded alot like me I'll stick to this.
> 
> And about INFP I was leaving work and mistyped it, it was meant to be ISFP. I been reading about it before leaving work. It was saying they peaceful harmony people and as you people tell it's not accurate I couldn't tell if my type is that. One thing I know for sure I'm not peaceful, I'm not giving person or alot helpful.


Again, because it's a stereotype. An E8 ISFP is not going to be like your average 9, 6 or 4 ISFP.


> I've read somewhere here somebody telling we must admit our ugly and I totally admit my darkside in fact I know better my bad side than the good. I'm no caring person, I'm no passionate person I don't even care for my parents. As you seem to made to mind up, it's okay for me because it would not change a thing. I wish I was idealist, I wish I would try to make world a better place and I wish I could care more for people because I know people that cares to me gets upset by the way I am... but I'm not this kind of person. I am selfish, ambitious, careless person.


What's important to understand is that none of that matters when typing. It's all enneagram-related but not really type related.


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## Psychopomp (Oct 3, 2012)

Cristy0505 said:


> Look how could I tell I'm this or that since from when I joined here countless people came to say the descriptions I've read around aren't accurate?
> If all the idea I have about types are everything I've researched over internet...
> I got really confused about it.
> First time I was feeling lazy to answer the 93 questions on inspiira.org site then I just went wikipedia and separed the letters: E from I, S from N, F from T and P from J. It made sense to me and seemed way so easier. I got ISTP then.
> ...


I think we've all been fairly unanimous in ISxP with a healthy ISTP preference. The trouble has been convincing you in light of the descriptions you read. They were either heavy on stereotypes or that is what you focused on.

I am leaning ISFP more and more mainly because of how hard you are to pin down (not that you are hard to type per se, but you are hard to pin to it) and in my experience, if I feel like I am chasing a greased fox down a slip-n-slide.... it's probably an ISFP.


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## Cristy0505 (Oct 8, 2012)

arkigos said:


> I am leaning ISFP more and more mainly because of how hard you are to pin down (not that you are hard to type per se, but you are hard to pin to it) and in my experience, if I feel like I am chasing a greased fox down a slip-n-slide.... it's probably an ISFP.


Excuse my ignorance, english is not my primary language but what does "pin down" means?

(In order of understanding: Portuguese > Japanese - English > Spanish)

Could you people give me then a decent description/traits of ISFP? I could understand it better by thinking "oh that's myself" or "oh that's not myself". I been doing that since I got here. Been searching something that sounded like me. If you people tell me that there's no such thing then I guess I give up on entire idea.

After all that I'm starting getting really bored of this thing.

edit again: 
@arkigos I was happier when I thought I could be possible a ninja 

@_LeaT_ I've downloaded an pdf about functions and I must admit I did not fully understood how they work together and if keep in separate they don't seem to tell me much.


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## Psychopomp (Oct 3, 2012)

Cristy0505 said:


> Excuse my ignorance, english is not my primary language but what does "pin down" means?
> 
> (In order of understanding: Portuguese > Japanese - English > Spanish)
> 
> ...


"Pin down" ... It means to hold something down to prevent it from moving.

I still believe you can be a ninja. Never give up on your dreams. :ninja:

EDIT:

To describe ISFP/ISTP: they are a lot like you. :angry:

Leaning even more ISFP.. and if you are an ISFP you may never accept your type or ultimately care.


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## Cristy0505 (Oct 8, 2012)

@arkigos

My dream is not being a ninja, but to rule the world.


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## Psychopomp (Oct 3, 2012)

Cristy0505 said:


> @_arkigos_
> 
> My dream is not being a ninja, but to rule the world.


Well, then... just remember, when you are sitting on your throne: I always supported you. 

"You are whatever type you WANT to be, Madame Overlord."


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## Cristy0505 (Oct 8, 2012)

arkigos said:


> Well, then... just remember, when you are sitting on your throne: I always supported you.
> 
> "You are whatever type you WANT to be, Madame Overlord."


 LOl this gave me a good laugh hahah


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## Celebok (Jun 21, 2012)

Cristy0505 said:


> Could you people give me then a decent description/traits of ISFP? I could understand it better by thinking "oh that's myself" or "oh that's not myself". I been doing that since I got here. Been searching something that sounded like me. If you people tell me that there's no such thing then I guess I give up on entire idea.
> 
> After all that I'm starting getting really bored of this thing.


Okay, then let me ask you this:

Suppose there were NO generalized descriptions of an ISFP (or whichever type you happen to be), and the only information available about each personality type was the basic definition, and the cognitive functions that make up that type:

_An ISFP has preferences for Introversion, Sensing, Feeling, and Perceiving. The ISFP's primary cognitive functions are introverted feeling (Fi), extraverted sensing (Se), introverted intuition (Ni), and extraverted thinking (Te).
_
And based on that definition alone, and from analyzing your psychological preferences, a certified MBTI professional was able to determine your personality type.

Would you then be satisfied knowing your type, or would you no longer care?


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## Cristy0505 (Oct 8, 2012)

@_Celebok_ I would be satisfied if together whatever type he types me he gave also an good description and I read it and think "Holy shit this thing really accurate!" - because what really impressed me was the fact most part of descriptions were very accurate.

If he happened to tell me you're ENTJ and I read the description of personality and thought "It couldn't be wronger" - then I guess I would think that's a bunch of bullshit just like horoscope...

(Even thought once I must admit I found a really accurate horoscope that used elements, zodiac, chinese zodiac and time of birth all together)

*edit* anyways I'm no longer bothered about which type I am. It was good coming here because I was bored at work and at least it gave me something to keep busy with... Read interesting things and thoughts and also seem funny stuffs. So I guess not a waste of time.

(Even tho I may be wasted time of yours)

and thank you so much, sir for your time and patience.


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## Celebok (Jun 21, 2012)

Cristy0505 said:


> @_Celebok_ I would be satisfied if together whatever type he types me he gave also an good description and I read it and think "Holy shit this thing really accurate!" - because what really impressed me was the fact most part of descriptions were very accurate.
> 
> If he happened to tell me you're ENTJ and I read the description of personality and thought "It couldn't be wronger" - then I guess I would think that's a bunch of bullshit just like horoscope...
> 
> ...


I see. Well, sorry you didn't exactly find what you were looking for, which was apparently just a cool, "Wow, that personality type totally describes me!" moment while you were bored and curious. The reality is, it's not guaranteed to work that way for everyone, and people are more complex than being able to fit perfectly into one of 16 little boxes. Nevertheless, there's a real science behind these Myers-Briggs types, and if you actually take the time to study them, they can really help you to understand the way you think and interact with the world and why you approach life differently than other types. Of course, you did mention before that you weren't looking for any practical application for it, and that you were just looking at personality types out of curiosity. That's basically how I was when I first started, and why I blew it off for so long. But one day I got frustrated enough with my uncertainty of my type, that I joined this site, just as you did. (Before considering ISTP, I was testing as ISTJ and INTJ.) There was a lot about the ISTP common descriptions that I couldn't relate to, so I didn't have that "wow, that's totally me!" moment, either. But after studying the cognitive functions, I came to understand where those misleading stereotypes came from, and why I don't fit those stereotypes, and how I'm actually using the functions of an ISTP. It's really helped me to understand myself a lot better and how I relate to others, and it's made me a lot more confident about the areas I'm most gifted in. Perhaps one day when you feel like taking the time to explore a bit more, you'll find yourself on a similar journey of self-discovery. That's really what this and other similar personality type forums are here for.

In any event, good luck!


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## Cristy0505 (Oct 8, 2012)

Celebok said:


> I see. Well, sorry you didn't exactly find what you were looking for, which was apparently just a cool, "Wow, that personality type totally describes me!" moment while you were bored and curious. The reality is, it's not guaranteed to work that way for everyone, and people are more complex than being able to fit perfectly into one of 16 little boxes. Nevertheless, there's a real science behind these Myers-Briggs types, and if you actually take the time to study them, they can really help you to understand the way you think and interact with the world and why you approach life differently than other types. Of course, you did mention before that you weren't looking for any practical application for it, and that you were just looking at personality types out of curiosity. That's basically how I was when I first started, and why I blew it off for so long. But one day I got frustrated enough with my uncertainty of my type, that I joined this site, just as you did. There was a lot about the ISTP common descriptions that I couldn't relate to, so I didn't have that "wow, that's totally me!" moment, either. But after studying the cognitive functions, I came to understand where those misleading stereotypes came from, and why I don't fit those stereotypes, and how I'm actually using the functions of an ISTP. It's really helped me to understand myself a lot better and how I relate to others, and it's made me a lot more confident about the areas I'm most gifted in. Perhaps one day when you feel like taking the time to explore a bit more, you'll find yourself on a similar journey of self-discovery. That's really what this and other similar personality type forums are here for.
> 
> In any event, good luck!


I may figure out someday (I have alot of lazy times at work that's why I come here so often) I've even downloaded a pdf explaining functions and such so I might read it soon.

Even tho I'm not worried or bothered about who I really am I think down inside we always know what we really are, there's no person on world that know yourself better than your own self in the end. We know our limits and possibilities how we will act or react to situations.

People's mind are like labyrinths and each one is unique. On personal opinion, I think could not fit into only 16 types just like you said. 

By fixing personalities into these we're just trying to limit it - again, my opinion.

I am nobody to tell Jung after years and years of hard work would be mistaken but it's the way I see it and afteral everyone can be mistaken, Einstein, Darwin, you and me. That's why it's not a proven fact but theory.


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## petitpèlerin (Apr 23, 2012)

Whatever you are, you're not ISTP. You and I are not the same type; we don't function the same way. Your Fi is very high: you know what you like and what you don't like, how you feel, etc. The way you don't want to research a lot of cognitive function theory here but prefer to learn from descriptions and examples tells me you probably have Se rather than Ne. (I'm the same way in that sense. For me a picture is worth a thousand words. And I also love LoTR but skipped all the poems and songs!) More evidence for Se is that you trust your senses and believe what you've seen with your own eyes. I think ISFP is extremely likely. Here's my own little ISFP description, based on the ISFPs I know:

ISFPs are indeed ninjas. They're introverted and easy-going but bold. They're adventurous and spontaneous, although not necessarily impulsive. They have a need to be independent and free; they don't like to control people or be controlled. They have a very unique way of looking at things around them, which they don't necessarily share with anybody else. Unlike INFPs (the other Fi-dom type) they're not very talkative. They tend to remain mysterious to the people around them. People think they're all gentle and sweet, while they themselves know their darker side, very well. They don't like a lot of abstract theory, or logical analysis, or long explanations, but it's important to them to get to the truth and essence of things. They're dreamy but not nerdy. They appear light-hearted, and they are, they live in the moment, but they also take life very seriously. It's imperative to them to live in accordance with their values and ideals, to be authentic. They're very physical: they like to touch and smell and see. They're in tune with their senses. They can lose themselves in music or in a beautiful natural setting better than most other people can. Most of all, they're drawn to beauty. They're usually very creative.

If you have limited motivation to research this stuff, I would focus on learning about ISFP and its functions (Fi, Se, Ni, Te), and see if inferior-Te fits you. (From what you've written it sounds like it very well may.)


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## Cristy0505 (Oct 8, 2012)

ltldslwmn said:


> Whatever you are, you're not ISTP. You and I are not the same type; we don't function the same way. Your Fi is very high: you know what you like and what you don't like, how you feel, etc. The way you don't want to research a lot of cognitive function theory here but prefer to learn from descriptions and examples tells me you probably have Se rather than Ne. (I'm the same way in that sense. For me a picture is worth a thousand words. And I also love LoTR but skipped all the poems and songs!) More evidence for Se is that you trust your senses and believe what you've seen with your own eyes. I think ISFP is extremely likely. Here's my own little ISFP description, based on the ISFPs I know:
> 
> ISFPs are indeed ninjas. They're introverted and easy-going but bold. They're adventurous and spontaneous, although not necessarily impulsive. They have a need to be independent and free; they don't like to control people or be controlled. They have a very unique way of looking at things around them, which they don't necessarily share with anybody else. Unlike INFPs (the other Fi-dom type) they're not very talkative. They tend to remain mysterious to the people around them. People think they're all gentle and sweet, while they themselves know their darker side, very well. They don't like a lot of abstract theory, or logical analysis, or long explanations, but it's important to them to get to the truth and essence of things. They're dreamy but not nerdy. They appear light-hearted, and they are, they live in the moment, but they also take life very seriously. It's imperative to them to live in accordance with their values and ideals. They're very physical: they like to touch and smell and see. They're in tune with their senses. They can lose themselves in music or in a beautiful natural setting better than most other people can. Most of all, they're drawn to beauty. They're usually very creative.
> 
> If you have limited motivation to research this stuff, I would focus on learning as much as you can about ISFP and its functions (Fi, Se, Ni, Te), and see if inferior-Te fits you. (From what you've written it sounds like it very well may.)



*@tldslwmn*
I’ve been searching and reading from many websites about that type and a few others.

Since college I had problems with acronyms and discipline and I also get bored really fast of things by so I’m having hard time trying to learn about functions (but I will naturally do of course).

The more I read the more I find in many types things that fits me but I don’t also would like to fall in mistake of be convinced because so many people told me so. It’s like to me to follow the mass and I don’t really like to follow the mass or believe something just because somebody else told me. It has to make sense to me. Not that I’m stubborn, but when I come to a conclusion, I like to be 100% sure of what I’m talking about and present facts to prove what I’m talking about because on this day if somebody tell me I’m wrong I’ll prove him/her they are wrong. I’m this kind of person.

I was reluctant to assume F thing because I don’t feel much, I don’t have strong feelings and I am no passionate person and I like to think a lot before coming with a conclusion. If somebody presents a problem to me, I can figure out a way to solve it with all the possible things that could go wrong because I see pretty easy where, when and why the plan could possible fail so I was rejecting entire idea about F thing. But then on my researches from yesterday to today I’ve found out some F’s can be like this indeed based on their instincts. I couldn’t tell if what make me be what I am is because my instincts or facts it selves or even because I’m analytical just for being. I could not really tell that.

But then I am really good in understand people’s logic like I don’t have much patience for long talking and it bores me and when somebody comes to me and present a personal issue I could never seem that person before but I can tell a lot about this person such as why this person behave like this, why it feel like this, why such things keeping happening and will still happening to this person… I’m really good on that (at younger age I wanted to become a shrink myself) and I rarely am wrong about that people even get scared because of this like I know them for long time.

Then after reading more about that I came to think I could possibly be F indeed. If not why would I then understand so well about human feelings and behavior?

I guess I will not find a description that totally fits me because it was not written specific to me but for a group of people there will always be few or many things that do not suits me so I guess I will keep on researching and read more about that until I get totally bored or totally convinced.

I came here because I am a lazy person and also impatient I wanted to know faster than be endless thinking about or finding where it does not make sense or where it does so I tried to skip a few parts and make it easier and faster. 

I think a lot but I don’t like to do so because the more I think the more I find small holes on a thing and it leads me to endless roads and possibilities until I be totally sure of something. It gives me headaches, I would rather somebody coming and telling me what I am doubtful of and it totally makes sense to me so end, life is easy. 

I thank everyone who has tried to figure me out and surely it was very important on my research and helped me a lot.

Oh and about your description it fits me (I have to be editing and adding stuffs on my replies because I am at work and I sit beside my boss and I guess he would not like to notice I be all day long at internet forum).

I am attracted to the beauty that’s true. One thing that have always bugged me I am no good in remembering people’s face, or names or phone numbers but if that’s a beautiful person I will remember even if I only seem that person for less than a second doesn’t matter if female or male. I like to have beautiful clothes, shoes, jewels… and like to make beautiful things. Beautiful and original songs… Everything I find beautiful I like and remember very well.

I use to forgive or forget things pretty fast if somebody been mean or cruel to me but if I think something a person did is really wrong (doesn’t matter who was that, could be my mother, sister, doesn’t matter) and unfair I will not put in balance they’re people I like I will be fair. For example, let’s suppose my dad killed a kid I would be the first to present it to police. If somebody I don’t like or know killed somebody I love I would kill that person same way and with same pain that person killed people I love. That’s why I’ve been asking around about most merciless types because I have no mercy for such things so I guess even if I may not be passionate on beauty side on the dark side F fits me a lot.


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## Cristy0505 (Oct 8, 2012)

I had to come back to post what I found it's a text easy to understand that I personally found very helpful about shadow functions.

Now I think I have a idea of what it's about and it seem to make sense to me. The guy who wrote the article presented a situation that could be possible my case.

Based on what he told, under stress I would react as ENTJ - I've been reading about ENTJ since then and it looked alot like me indeed lol - and I guess I'm by nature stressful person I think I live more under stress than naturally that could be an answer...

Anyways, let me share the article I found:

Do It Scared! » Blog Archive » Jungian Cognitive Functions: The Solution to Misleading MBTI Personality Codes


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