# 8 months out, no job... I guess my Ivy League Master's Degree was a waste of money



## HunniHunni

umm ..im currently a high schooler right now..sooo..umm i dont really know that many things but there are people that has wasted more money than you sooo keep up the postive thoughts~~~~


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## aus2020

The current average number of weeks being unemployed in the US is 37 weeks/9.25 months. It hasn't been this bad since the great depression and half of all americans are so poor they don't pay federal income tax. You could try the armed forces or the police, but I would not recommend those alternatives. You could try relocating to a country with better job prospects or alternatively start a small business instead. One of my childhood friends was a struggling single mother with two children. She was continually knocked back by the banks for loans, because of her marital status, but eventually did well in the retail food business. She eventually sold a majority shareholding in the business for $30 million. She's still working as the managing director in the same business. With your level of intelligence, I'm sure you're likely to find something that you're successful at, sooner or later.


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## Philosophaser Song Boy

Just graduated this past May, and I refuse to apply for jobs at major companies related to my field. Employers are being outrageously unrealistic when it comes to what they want. They are being too selective, and one day it is going to bite them all in the ass. I will make sure of that. 

Since graduation, I have been pursuing my dreams and applying at small, local places related to my passions.


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## sriracha

The US really is corrupt now....and I believe with what we have now things are not going to get much better....things are going downhill now, or up and down unstable. My advice, get out of California. Go elsewhere. I enjoyed reading all of the posts; they were very encouraging. :kitteh: My gosh, this makes me scared. Once I graduate college, there's going to be like nothing out there.


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## fihe

Premium G said:


> Employers are being outrageously unrealistic when it comes to what they want. They are being too selective, and one day it is going to bite them all in the ass. I will make sure of that.


absolutely. sadly, they can afford to be so selective because there are so many people desperate for work that they'll take anything. I think that this recession is going to have long-term effects on wages in the United States because people are now willing to work for less as long as they have a job.

@MBTI Enthusiast, have you considered moving to New Jersey? there are a lot of pharmaceutical companies here. also, I was looking at this page from the BLS website, and it actually says that the job outlook for biomedical engineers in the next few years is very good. I'm guessing it's only confined to certain areas of the country, however.


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## sriracha

I'm starting to doubt the facts of research done by BLS or other government agencies. They say this job is going to be in growth and that job is declining. You know what???!! _What. Ever._ Damn, we can't predict much of what's going to happen in the next few years, or 10 or 20 years down the road!! They say a registered nurse is going to be a job with growth, but you know what?? There's like a ton of people going to school for nursing and a lot of schools with competitive nursing programs. So now it's just a job with regular growth similar to a teacher and other careers out there. The economy's going down. That's all I've got to say.


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## aus2020

Well, in terms of discretionary income luxury item, I would consider the Mercedes SLK sales to be an example of short term consumer optimism. Conversely, what americans would consider an essential item, guns, I see as an example of short term consumer pessimism. Not all people buy guns to defend themselves, but a significant proportion do. Gun legislation also has a significant effect on gun sales. 

Mercedes-Benz SLK-Class - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Record U.S. Gun Checks Show Economic Doubts: Chart of the Day - Bloomberg

Let me put it this way. If I was looking for high sales growth over the next eight years, I would not be looking for work as an american Mercedes salesperson.


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## Snakecharmer

rawr_sheila said:


> I'm starting to doubt the facts of research done by BLS or other government agencies. They say this job is going to be in growth and that job is declining. You know what???!! _What. Ever._ Damn, we can't predict much of what's going to happen in the next few years, or 10 or 20 years down the road!! They say a registered nurse is going to be a job with growth, but you know what?? There's like a ton of people going to school for nursing and a lot of schools with competitive nursing programs. So now it's just a job with regular growth similar to a teacher and other careers out there. The economy's going down. That's all I've got to say.


You are correct. I have a BS in Health Sciences and was planning to go to nursing school because it LOOKED like there was a lot of demand for nurses. Well...I went back to college and took the pre-reqs, and then found out via a lot of research (and through people who are nurses or work in hospitals) that although there are LOTS of nursing jobs posted, it is VERY competitive and a lot of employers are just looking to build up their database of candidates.

I decided against nursing school and was lucky enough to be recruited by a company in my field (nutrition) last year.

Now I'm working on some IT certifications, and am going back to college for some Project Management classes because it seems like all of the jobs are in those fields.


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## kudi

The perc community has given lots of helpful advice. I'll add mine in there as well; I suggest you narrow down what you want to do (specifics) and create a description of the type of company you want to work for. Then what you do with that is thoroughly research those companies and learn as much as you can about them. Preparation is key here, so when you talk to a person at the job fair or send them a message you are talking specifics with them, not general stuff like I hear you got this job open and more like I know you are expanding in x area and need a person with xxx. Usually the job description tells you what they are looking for, but it never hurts to call HR and investigate the reason for the job opening & what their needs are. Armed with that you start to prepare things you've done that fit perfectly with what they are trying to achieve and if you are ambitious do a sample of what you'd be able to accomplish for them on the job. When you really try to really listen and solve their problem companies tend to take you more seriously.

While job hunting it never hurts to do an internship to gain experience and possibly connect with industry people and see if they know anything or could connect you is always a good idea.


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## Philosophaser Song Boy

I really like this. THIS is how I am attempting to approach my future.


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## frenchie

Sweetheart, I graduated with the weakest GPA and a basket weaving degree and I got a job.

Check your FB, I'll be sending stuff your way.

Seriously, you deserve a 6 figure salary. STEM careers are the only places where you can make money today.


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## fihe

frenchie said:


> Sweetheart, I graduated with the weakest GPA and a basket weaving degree and I got a job.
> 
> Check your FB, I'll be sending stuff your way.
> 
> Seriously, you deserve a 6 figure salary. STEM careers are the only places where you can make money today.


did you have an employee referral or any other internal connections? I feel like that's the only way to get a job nowadays -_-


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## frenchie

huesos said:


> did you have an employee referral or any other internal connections? I feel like that's the only way to get a job nowadays -_-


Nope, I found the job on Linkedin, wrote a cover letter, and submitted it. I work in IT support which is on the upswing right now.


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## fihe

frenchie said:


> Nope, I found the job on Linkedin, wrote a cover letter, and submitted it. I work in IT support which is on the upswing right now.


cool, I've applied for a couple of jobs on LinkedIn but I haven't checked it out in a while. I suppose I'll need to look again! I recently got a part-time job working with a science after-school program. I found that job on indeed.com.


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## Sily

MBTI Enthusiast said:


> ...If anyone has any insights, I would love to hear them. Thanks for reading.


Hire a headhunter. 

Headhunters Reveal 11 Ways To Ruin Your Chances Of Getting A Job - Business Insider

My sis was unemployed and hired a headhunter and _boom_, she's employed.


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## fihe

@Sily thank you for the informative article. I also read HR Execs Reveal The 13 Most Common Resume Blunders. I thought 13 of 14 was interesting. it says: "Mistaking responsibilities for accomplishments will greatly reduce the impact of your resume". the problem is: I've never really made any accomplishments anywhere I've worked. my past/current jobs include cashier, canvasser, and substitute teacher. I'm not really sure how anyone can bring value to a company with those kinds of dinky jobs. the only time I ever really brought value was as an executive board member of my sorority. I made neat flyers to advertise our events, and set up a Paypal and Twitter for the chapter.


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## MBTI Enthusiast

Again, thank you all for your helpful encouragement and advice. Both are necessary in this stage of the game!



Adrift said:


> You are aware that Obamacare imposed a tax on medical devices and several of these medical device companies like Medtronic in California decided to layoff 500 workers in 2012 and another 500 workers in 2013. This means you are competing with many thousands of laid-off, experienced workers for jobs that aren't there right now. Good luck.


That's a good point. Recently I've been focusing more on medical device companies, but maybe I should switch back to pharmaceutical companies that aren't affected by that annoying medical device tax.



Adrift said:


> You should probably try to find work in another field and even think of moving to a business friendly state like Texas or North Dakota. Better yet, think of starting your own business; maybe catering or photography or match-making.


Hopefully that would be only a last resort, but it's a possibility. :tongue:



iamawolf said:


> List 10 things you need to work on to take it to the next level, right now.
> 
> If you don't want to do it on here (though this would be good) then you can do it hard copy and carry it in your back pocket.


Well, I would do that if I knew what was wrong? Things I've been thinking of doing are:

1. Reading recommended books on job hunting
2. Taking a class or seminar series in AutoCAD or SolidWorks if I can find them nearby
3. Keep checking for and applying to jobs daily
4. Work out more to maintain my mental health
5. Possibly get a minimum wage job to show that I'm "employable"
6. Check up on networking leads
... not sure what else. :tongue:



LXPilot said:


> There are really two ways to get what you want here. One is to go the "soft contact" route. This is really best if you use your network from school, or another network you belong to, to develop a "relationship" of interest over time. Obviously this works most naturally with people you already know, or "second" connections (even third, and on in some cases)/connections of your friends - but you can also do it with random people from a network you're part of, using that connection as common ground. You call them for informational interviews (brief ones - no more than 30 minutes) and re-affirm the connection basis, ask them to describe what they do, as well as a few other questions that show interest in the industry. I'm not sure if this is "protocol," but if things go well I actually make it clear that I'm looking for a job, and ask at the end, referencing a posting I've already seen. I also did calls for people in the network whose firms didn't necessarily have postings.


This is the part I'm dreading - more networking. :bored: It makes sense, but it's so annoying to me that you have to do that to get a job these days. :frustrating: I have a few friends and people I know on the lookout for me, but I could try to find more.



LXPilot said:


> The other method would be to get in touch with random hiring managers, and _tons _of them. This is a lot harder to do IMO because there's literally no human element to the exchange before you experience it. Another drawback is that it doesn't work as well if you want a really specific company, job, or salary.


I don't get how this works? What do you say to the HRs, etc.?



LXPilot said:


> Have you tried these yet? OMG _use_ _LinkedIn_. I know a lot of this sounds business-ey, but even other sorts of jobs are being filled this way. Looking at postings is mostly useless nowadays since hiring is beginning to be done internally - that is, at the very least, from people within a network, and better yet by referrals from people who already work there. I got my job as a management consulting analyst by contacting someone totally random from my university network - they happened to be looking for someone at that very time, so it can be done. Not sure how Biomedical Engineering would play out differently, but it's at least worth a try. Since you went to an Ivy, you should have a number of people who I'm sure would be good contacts on Linkedin.





BlurredVisionary said:


> I don't know if it's been mentioned before, but have you tried getting an account on LinkedIn? It will blow you mind how many people you actually know, who they know and how somebody within that network is probably capable of pointing you in the right direction for a job. You can also make connections through professional groups, alumni groups and your hobbies and interests. If you haven't already done so, I recommend you give it a shot!


I do have a LinkedIn account, complete with endorsements and ~90 connections, but I don't think I'm utilizing it to its fullest potential. I pretty much just use it to search for and apply for jobs that I wouldn't be aware of otherwise. Do either of you have tips on how to utilize it better? I should just start contacting people and asking if they have openings? Or should I use the group discussions and hope someone notices my contributions?



leftbanke said:


> _You've accomplished way more than most & that is worthy in itself, in my humble opinion. I got a late start (had kids really young) and just recently completed a two year degree, then a 900 hour Medical course. It's gotten me - no job. I also put myself through cosmetology school which equaled - no job. Laughing outrageously loud now. I am currently interviewing (2nd round today) for a pet groomer position. Heh, heh, heh - gotta love it. Maybe the damn cosmetology training will pay off with less troublesome critters, they only bite you physically.
> 
> Anyways.... I'm feeling your pain as mine has been similar (7 mos. now w/o employment). I went to a job fair and saw so many people who seemed just awesome in the same boat. Talked to a few and it was not surprising that they all were awesome. So, it isn't us. We have to hold on to our self-esteem, and what we have accomplished, against so many odds. Surprisingly, the woman who interviewed me yesterday said as much (she'll never know what that meant to me).
> 
> I admire all you've accomplished. It's amazing. You're amazing. I've been bewildered, too. Even to the point of a crisis of faith, until I realized that bewilderment is part of the trip. I think I may be onto something with the pet groomer thing, though. Seriously, and it is funny as hell, considering I've spent my life in offices, striving for a modicum of respect. However, offices Suck, and maybe this new gig will shake some of those evil minion corporate types away from my dog shaving arse._


Haha, thanks for contributing your personal experience - it does help to know I'm not the only one. :happy: Good luck with the pet groomer job! We can do it!



Snakecharmer said:


> Here's another idea: Try contacting employers for whom you'd like to work - but don't approach it from an "I need a job" standpoint. Write and MAIL a letter to a specific person (research each company to find out who the manager is, etc). In that letter, mention that you are CONSIDERING employment in their field, and ask about their company...what they look for in employees, etc.


Hmm, that could be very valuable. I really do want to know what these employers are thinking and why my applications come up short, so maybe asking an innocuous question and asking for information on the industry might give me that answer. 



Snakecharmer said:


> Also, maybe try offering to volunteer for a company in your field (or a related field). Or...try a temp agency. Or - a headhunter. For someone with an advanced degree like you, hiring a headhunter might be the answer.
> 
> Ask The Headhunter®: The Basics
> 
> https://www.theladders.com/





Sily said:


> Hire a headhunter.
> 
> Headhunters Reveal 11 Ways To Ruin Your Chances Of Getting A Job - Business Insider
> 
> My sis was unemployed and hired a headhunter and _boom_, she's employed.



The problem with headhunters is that I've heard headhunters don't usually work with entry-level jobs (why would a company hire a headhunter for an entry-level job that hundreds of people apply for?) and also, one article states that they'd much rather work with you when you're employed. Hmm. I feel this pic is exactly my problem:










Snakecharmer said:


> Also, you might already be doing this, but be sure to always show the employer what YOU can do for them - how are YOU going to improve their profit, productivity, etc? Sell them on everything YOU have to offer to help THEM.


Yeah, I try to write my cover letters in less of a "I want to work here" method and more of a "Let me show you why I'm qualified" method.



Razare said:


> What you might do is under-emphasize your master's degree if at all possible. If you attained a bachelor's and then a masters, you can leave off the fact that you have a master's degree. There's nothing dishonest about this. They're not going to notice until they check your credentials with the college, but even then, it depends what they look at.
> 
> This is personally what I would do. Either that or forget the field, and apply for jobs you're not trained for.


I may do this if I apply to any more pure entry-level positions (BS with no experience needed) but if the job is BS + any experience, I have to include my Master's. Also, my Master's degree also gave me very good hands-on experience in the lab, which is one of the only experiences with such hands-on things. There's no way I want to minimize that experience.

I've definitely started applying to more diverse jobs, though, including operations, manufacturing, quality control, etc. So maybe if I can get my foot in the door that way, it will help if I want to move toward a research position.



Elaine said:


> Just keep at it. Keep looking, keep networking, sign up for linkedin and the various biomedical engineering groups etc that interest you on the site, post a profile describing what your skills are (I have had headhunters who were just searching through linkedin contact me randomly). Find headhunters like other posters suggested.


I have had company recruiters contact me on LinkedIn, too. The first time, I applied to the job I was suggested, but nothing happened. The second time, the job was not in my field at all and not the career I'd like to pursue (technical sales ::bored, so I didn't pursue the tip.

See my comments above about LinkedIn and headhunters, as well.



Elaine said:


> I disagree that getting a master's degree in engineering is a waste of money. There are jobs out there where real knowledge matters. Even if you don't land a great job right away because of the bad economy, your degree will pay off over the long run. You will always have more options because of the knowledge you possess, and you will likely adapt better in the long run to this ever changing economic landscape, because it's not just about now, all of us will have to keep changing and keep adapting if we want to stay employed for 45 years. You are just at the difficult "chicken and egg" phase; have faith that you will pass through this phase just like everyone else. Have faith that the more real skills you have, the more options you really will have over the long run. And just keep at it.


Thanks, I'll try to keep my head up. :happy:


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## MBTI Enthusiast

aus2020 said:


> The current average number of weeks being unemployed in the US is 37 weeks/9.25 months. You could try relocating to a country with better job prospects or alternatively start a small business instead.


Wow, that's good to know. I hope I make it under that average. I don't trust my ability to start my own business, but I have thought briefly about moving to Germany. Then I could also be closer to my bf who's stationed there! :kitteh: I might have to seriously consider that.



Premium G said:


> Just graduated this past May, and I refuse to apply for jobs at major companies related to my field. Employers are being outrageously unrealistic when it comes to what they want. They are being too selective, and one day it is going to bite them all in the ass. I will make sure of that.
> 
> Since graduation, I have been pursuing my dreams and applying at small, local places related to my passions.


Now I'm starting to think that I'd wish one of these big-name companies would hire me. Then I could say that the wait was worth it. I also think the system is screwed, but I can't bring myself to rebel just yet. I don't think the problem is being too selective, I think the problem is requiring inside connections and "networking" to get a job. And also the fact that most companies don't even have the decency to let you know if you didn't get the job. 

Maybe I should start applying to jobs in my other true passion - psychology. Maybe a technician or analyst or something.



huesos said:


> @MBTI Enthusiast, have you considered moving to New Jersey? there are a lot of pharmaceutical companies here. also, I was looking at this page from the BLS website, and it actually says that the job outlook for biomedical engineers in the next few years is very good. I'm guessing it's only confined to certain areas of the country, however.


I've applied to a couple of jobs there, but I haven't looked significantly. I'm going to have to start expanding my horizons, I guess. But like I said, I have little trouble FINDING jobs to apply for, it's the LANDING of the job that's been impossible.

Also, I firmly believe now that majoring in "Biomedical Engineering" to gain those promised Biomedical Engineering jobs was fruitless. I can count on one hand the number of jobs that specifically list "biomedical engineering" in their major requirements. They almost always say "Biology or equivalent", "Biochemistry or equivalent", "Chemical Engineering or equivalent", "Mechanical Engineering or equivalent", etc. It seems like they want someone more specialized, because in my biomedical engineering degree, we covered all of those things, but none in extreme depth. So misleading when deciding a major. :dry:



kudi said:


> The perc community has given lots of helpful advice. I'll add mine in there as well; I suggest you narrow down what you want to do (specifics) and create a description of the type of company you want to work for. Then what you do with that is thoroughly research those companies and learn as much as you can about them. Preparation is key here, so when you talk to a person at the job fair or send them a message you are talking specifics with them, not general stuff like I hear you got this job open and more like I know you are expanding in x area and need a person with xxx. Usually the job description tells you what they are looking for, but it never hurts to call HR and investigate the reason for the job opening & what their needs are. Armed with that you start to prepare things you've done that fit perfectly with what they are trying to achieve and if you are ambitious do a sample of what you'd be able to accomplish for them on the job. When you really try to really listen and solve their problem companies tend to take you more seriously.
> 
> While job hunting it never hurts to do an internship to gain experience and possibly connect with industry people and see if they know anything or could connect you is always a good idea.


Right, I've tried to tailor my cover letters as much as possible to the specific job. I make sure I research the company beforehand and mention something that stood out to me. It might help to call the HR like you said, though. I've never thought of that.

Recently I've started looking into internships, but so many of them ask for you to be currently enrolled in an undergraduate or graduate academic program. I don't know if I qualify. I've found a couple that don't say that, but the vast majority do. :/



Premium G said:


> I really like this. THIS is how I am attempting to approach my future.


Haha, I could never do that. /sp dom :tongue:



frenchie said:


> Sweetheart, I graduated with the weakest GPA and a basket weaving degree and I got a job.
> 
> Check your FB, I'll be sending stuff your way.
> 
> Seriously, you deserve a 6 figure salary. STEM careers are the only places where you can make money today.


Haha - thanks for your help. As I said, 6 figure is way out of my league, though. The jobs I apply for seem to pay $50-70k. The average that previous Master's Degree students in biomedical engineering from my school earned in their first job was $59k. Heh.

I TOLD you you were/are extremely lucky. :wink:


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## Philosophaser Song Boy

> Now I'm starting to think that I'd wish one of these big-name companies would hire me. Then I could say that the wait was worth it. I also think the system is screwed, but I can't bring myself to rebel just yet. I don't think the problem is being too selective, I think the problem is requiring inside connections and "networking" to get a job. And also the fact that most companies don't even have the decency to let you know if you didn't get the job.
> 
> Maybe I should start applying to jobs in my other true passion - psychology. Maybe a technician or analyst or something.


I am applying to my passions first. I am attempting to hop onboard with cheese makers around the country so I can learn and make my own farm.


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## fihe

@Premium G really? I'm not sure how well dairy farms are doing right now, but I suppose people will always need to eat. I guess a lot of people love their cheese.


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## Psychosmurf

Man, this world is out to fuck you and fuck you HARD! :angry:


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## MBTI Enthusiast

I officially have 18 applications out that were completed in the last week. It's crunch time!

EDIT: Make that 21. Type 9 inertia is good sometimes. :tongue:


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## Adrift

It's a long shot, but go apply to compete in The Amazing Race.


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## aus2020

If you're going to relocate to Germany, how good's your german?


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## refugee

Dang, I wish I could wave a magic wand and get somebody to hire you right away.

I remember one of my co-workers telling me once, "It's not WHAT you know, it's WHO you know." Networking is still the best way to find a job. I realize that your networking hasn't helped you much, but keep asking and making connections. One of them is bound to turn up, even if it's not up to your level.

I hope you find a good job.


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## fihe

refugee said:


> Dang, I wish I could wave a magic wand and get somebody to hire you right away.
> 
> I remember one of my co-workers telling me once, "It's not WHAT you know, it's WHO you know." Networking is still the best way to find a job. I realize that your networking hasn't helped you much, but keep asking and making connections. One of them is bound to turn up, even if it's not up to your level.
> 
> I hope you find a good job.


I highly resent how it seems like the only way to get a job anymore is through a connection. it makes it very difficult for someone who just moved to the area! employers could be missing out on a lot of great candidates. it's especially sad when the people who get jobs through a network are not even properly qualified. I feel like this is pretty common in the public sector.


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## Morpheus83

huesos said:


> I highly resent how it seems like the only way to get a job anymore is through a connection. it makes it very difficult for someone who just moved to the area! employers could be missing out on a lot of great candidates. it's especially sad when the people who get jobs through a network are not even properly qualified. I feel like this is pretty common in the public sector.


I know people who neither have the qualifications, skills, experience nor desired traits to do their jobs; they just sit around all day harassing coworkers/subordinates or do nothing (sometimes alternating between the two) -- but still expect a pay check. Even worse -- some of these people can be disgustingly self-righteous simply because they're 'employed' -- and I use the term loosely.


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## MBTI Enthusiast

So, I just looked up SolidWorks classes because those seem to be a "preferred" requirement on several of my job apps - and I actually found one under "Continuing Education" at a local community college! It starts in Feb and is once a week. The problem is, it runs until June. If I'm not out of here by June, I don't know what I'd do. Should I just sign up and withdraw if I get a job? It's $375 to take it, but maybe the smallest bit will help... Hmm.



aus2020 said:


> If you're going to relocate to Germany, how good's your german?


Hahaha... good point. :tongue: It's like non-existent. Although maybe I could take a class. But it might not be worth it.



refugee said:


> Dang, I wish I could wave a magic wand and get somebody to hire you right away.
> 
> I remember one of my co-workers telling me once, "It's not WHAT you know, it's WHO you know." Networking is still the best way to find a job. I realize that your networking hasn't helped you much, but keep asking and making connections. One of them is bound to turn up, even if it's not up to your level.
> 
> I hope you find a good job.


Thank you for your encouragement! :happy:


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## phony

I can't offer any help, sorry, but here's a hug. *huuuuuuuuuuuuuug*


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## Figure

MBTI Enthusiast said:


> I do have a LinkedIn account, complete with endorsements and ~90 connections, but I don't think I'm utilizing it to its fullest potential. I pretty much just use it to search for and apply for jobs that I wouldn't be aware of otherwise. Do either of you have tips on how to utilize it better? I should just start contacting people and asking if they have openings? Or should I use the group discussions and hope someone notices my contributions?


Okay, scratch off the ones you apply to online. In theory they "could" work, but you're wasting your time if you're waiting to see if they come through. Many positions that are posted online, on LinkedIn and elsewhere, are actually just there as placeholders. They're often already filled, or the applicants the company is interested in have already been gathered (usually internally). 

What you can do is join groups, which should give you access to send messages to people you don't actually know (I think this still works this way, someone flag this down if it doesn't). What you would do is join LinkedIn groups in your industry, and send messages to people in the group to ask for informational interviews. 

Most people love talking about themselves, so they'll be fine with it - if not, it's not as though you have to deal with the person again anyway. Most will be no-replies, but you just have to keep chugging away (you'll feel better at least doing something). The easiest to start with are the people you actually have a connection with, like alumni, or if you were in a sorority in undergrad those work well too. You could also go less-specific, high volume and just send messages to everyone - you'd need a template message ready though. 

Bottom line is you're going to have to be a bit "pushy" to get what you want. And/or become an internal candidate by getting in touch with someone who needs one.


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## fihe

to add to the slight discussion about networking, I was looking at the staff directory for my former school district, and I see that there are people who graduated the same year as me, and even a year after me, who have jobs as teachers! there are three who teach science at the junior high school. science is an in-demand subject, plus I'm sure some teachers were retiring. but there were also two phys ed teachers that I graduated with that teach there, and phys ed is just as hard to find a job in as social studies (my subject), if not worse! I'm sure they all got an employee referral. I also noticed that even of the teachers who've taught in the district for a while, many went to school there themselves.

I applied for a job there back in May and got nothing, but then again, back then my résumé and cover letter were probably not very good. unfortunately, in college they teach us the subject matter and how to properly educate kids, but there's minimal training on how to write a cover letter and résumé and apply for a job. I still don't know who I'm supposed to address a cover letter to! I always write it to someone different, like the superintendent, or his/her secretary, or the human resources director.


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## aus2020

MBTI Enthusiast said:


> Hahaha... good point. :tongue: It's like non-existent. Although maybe I could take a class. But it might not be worth it.


I take it you've never been to Germany. Anyway, if you change your mind and decide to relocate to Australia, learning the Aussie lingo is optional.


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## MBTI Enthusiast

LXPilot said:


> What you can do is join groups, which should give you access to send messages to people you don't actually know (I think this still works this way, someone flag this down if it doesn't). What you would do is join LinkedIn groups in your industry, and send messages to people in the group to ask for informational interviews.
> 
> Most people love talking about themselves, so they'll be fine with it - if not, it's not as though you have to deal with the person again anyway. Most will be no-replies, but you just have to keep chugging away (you'll feel better at least doing something). The easiest to start with are the people you actually have a connection with, like alumni, or if you were in a sorority in undergrad those work well too. You could also go less-specific, high volume and just send messages to everyone - you'd need a template message ready though.
> 
> Bottom line is you're going to have to be a bit "pushy" to get what you want. And/or become an internal candidate by getting in touch with someone who needs one.


Alright, I took your advice and found someone who graduated from my program in an Alumni LinkedIn group and now works at the company I would love to work for in the position I would love to be in! (It's okay, I wouldn't be taking his job - it's a very large company and there are several positions like this.) So I sent him an e-mail and he wrote me back and agreed for me to call him! Now I have a few questions handy, but should I still drop at the end that I'd appreciate if he could keep me in mind if he sees a potential opening with his company? It might also help to ask if he has anyone he knows that might be able to help in any way, right?

Thanks!


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## MBTI Enthusiast

*Update*



MBTI Enthusiast said:


> I officially have 18 applications out that were completed in the last week. It's crunch time!
> 
> EDIT: Make that 21. Type 9 inertia is good sometimes. :tongue:


Make that 25ish, I think. Nothing yet but rejection e-mails, and people looking at my LinkedIn or resume but not contacting me, which makes me think they're not interested. This is why I sometimes save my energy and apply to less jobs - when I go "all out" and still get nothing, it makes me feel even worse.

I did get contacted by one of the headhunters I'm speaking with. The job will be challenging because I've never done exactly what the description says. I have some experience in part of it and some experience in another part, but not all together. (I really am "enty-level" in that regard - I don't have these specific skill sets. I have analogous skill sets or knowledge of processes, but rarely do I fit every bullet in a job listing.) I tried to be as honest as possible with him, and he decided to submit my resume for it anyway. We'll see.



MBTI Enthusiast said:


> Alright, I took your advice and found someone who graduated from my program in an Alumni LinkedIn group and now works at the company I would love to work for in the position I would love to be in! (It's okay, I wouldn't be taking his job - it's a very large company and there are several positions like this.) So I sent him an e-mail and he wrote me back and agreed for me to call him! Now I have a few questions handy, but should I still drop at the end that I'd appreciate if he could keep me in mind if he sees a potential opening with his company? It might also help to ask if he has anyone he knows that might be able to help in any way, right?
> 
> Thanks!


I spoke with him and he was helpful in some ways, but hasn't responded to my follow-up e-mail. :/


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## King of Cynics

Welcome to fucked up reality.


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## fihe

@King of Cynics I expected to hear something like that from someone with your username.

I agree with you.


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## aestrivex

as people have mentioned, networking


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## amethyst_butterfly

Don't despair. It also took me a while to land my first job. After graduating I decided to volunteer at a hospital (I am a lab worker) where I did a lot of mundane tasks such as filing and organizing documents and samples. I was in that place for like 4 or 5 months (July to October). I meet an employee there who also had a part-time in another hospital and he asked me if I could help him there because he had too much work. He let me do tasks that were specific to my profession and I got some experience. I was there for 5 months (Oct to Feb) more without pay (no kidding). On two occasions he called me to cover for his vacations and a sick leave with pay and it was good money ($18 per hour PerDiem) Then he helped me get my first job on March of 2010 in a private lab . I graduated in May 2009 with 30,000 in debt for just a post-bachelor degree. I had a BS in Biology which my father paid for me but then pursued a more specialized degree that lasted 12 months in Miami. (It cost more than my other degree) Dumb decision.... I know.

I didn't had much luck in my first job and second job because I was a threat to everyone because I was overqualified so I ended up being unemployed for many months (about 7 months) until I found my current job where I have lasted 2 yrs. So yep this has been a hell of a ride. It haven't been easy and I am still not very happy with my current job cause I am not paid fairly but at least I have a job.

My suggestion is that you volunteer in a engineering company related to your field. Not everybody has the luck on finding the right job after graduating. I have a friend who is an environmental engineer and it took her a lot of time to find a job too and she has made comments that she wishes to move to the U.S to find a better paying job. Perhaps she isn't even doing what she studied but we are in difficult times right now as everybody says.

Volunteering can really help you open doors even if you do simple tasks that can be boring. Perhaps you can earn their trust and they let you do more complicated tasks. If they see that you are a person with a lot of interest and enthusiasm they can help you get a job. They may know of other places that are hiring or they can even hire you if you are lucky!! 

Don't give up and stay persistent! Don't regret your hard work. I know how it feels and is not worth it to feel depressed.


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## yet another intj

MBTI Enthusiast said:


> What am I doing wrong? Is there something wrong with me?


You are losing your hopes and ambitions with cyclical thoughts. It is the worst thing you can do to yourself.


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## Runvardh

MBTI Enthusiast said:


> Make that 25ish, I think. Nothing yet but rejection e-mails, and people looking at my LinkedIn or resume but not contacting me, which makes me think they're not interested. This is why I sometimes save my energy and apply to less jobs - when I go "all out" and still get nothing, it makes me feel even worse.


I've been told that is is more efficient, energy and quantity wise, to set yourself a standard number of applications per week or per day. This means you do it, even if you don't; and if you're feeling like kicking into high gear, you still stop at that number. This used to help me back when I was still getting going; but it only helped get me "employment" experience, and nothing in my industry. This may not be encouraging; but it helps to build a habit that may very well help you win the right one.



> I did get contacted by one of the headhunters I'm speaking with. The job will be challenging because I've never done exactly what the description says. I have some experience in part of it and some experience in another part, but not all together. (I really am "enty-level" in that regard - I don't have these specific skill sets. I have analogous skill sets or knowledge of processes, but rarely do I fit every bullet in a job listing.) I tried to be as honest as possible with him, and he decided to submit my resume for it anyway. We'll see.


Companies often ask for a little more than what they truly need as a way to filter people out psychologically. Go for it if the interview materializes.



One thing that I know helps me get a more favourable view in interviews are my interests and hobbies that are not related to my field. I am an IT professional; however, I am also an amateur astronomer, a cyclist, and a musician as well as the field stereotype gamer. 

Guess which of those four interests and hobbies I stress more.

Companies want to feel like they have human beings work for them and managers often prefer people who will fit into the team and corporate community, over someone who can just do the job.

What, outside of biomedical engineering and PerC do you do/enjoy/participate in?


Edit: Shit, I wonder if I just realized the solution to my brother's unemployment woes as well...


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## frenchie

I wish I was in california...

BUM!


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## fihe

jd_ said:


> I am estimating here... but on the job hunt I might receive 1 "response" per 20 applications, maybe 1 interview per 40... at least that is the case since around 2009...Prior to that, it was more like 1 out of 5. Many jobs are getting 100's of applicants.


it's true! one of the first teaching jobs I applied for, and the only one to at least reply saying that I wasn't chosen instead of just ignoring me, had over 300 applicants! I think it's very common for most teaching jobs, at least in my area, to have about 100 applications each.

I'm really worried that when the economy starts to recover that there will be a huge lag. what I mean by that is that supposing that hiring really starts to pick up in 2014, for example, it's not just 2014 college grads who will be applying for those jobs, but also from 2013, 2012, and even further back, because they were unable to get decent jobs following their college graduation.

I tried going to the Board of Education of a district in which I had applied for a few openings, and I asked to speak to someone in HR and they just said that they would contact me if they're interested. I thought speaking to an actual person would guarantee that my résumé gets looked at instead of getting lost among all the others, but I guess they don't want people doing what they consider circumventing the application process. to be honest I think the only way people's résumés will ever be seen by human eyes is if it's full of keywords from the job description, because that gives your application a better "score" in the ATS (applicant tracking system). it's really stupid but I guess you have to just play the game...


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## jd_

huesos said:


> it's true! one of the first teaching jobs I applied for, and the only one to at least reply saying that I wasn't chosen instead of just ignoring me, had over 300 applicants! I think it's very common for most teaching jobs, at least in my area, to have about 100 applications each.
> 
> I'm really worried that when the economy starts to recover that there will be a huge lag. what I mean by that is that supposing that hiring really starts to pick up in 2014, for example, it's not just 2014 college grads who will be applying for those jobs, but also from 2013, 2012, and even further back, because they were unable to get decent jobs following their college graduation.
> 
> I tried going to the Board of Education of a district in which I had applied for a few openings, and I asked to speak to someone in HR and they just said that they would contact me if they're interested. I thought speaking to an actual person would guarantee that my résumé gets looked at instead of getting lost among all the others, but I guess they don't want people doing what they consider circumventing the application process. to be honest I think the only way people's résumés will ever be seen by human eyes is if it's full of keywords from the job description, because that gives your application a better "score" in the ATS (applicant tracking system). it's really stupid but I guess you have to just play the game...


That is why I shied away from a prospect in academia. Very competitive job market, lack of tenure track jobs, absolutely no choice of where you live.

There are way too many overqualified people out there right now who can't find jobs to match their education and experience.

I'm glad I waited a few years and got out in the real world to know what I liked in terms of places to live. If I would have gone straight into grad school like many people I know I might be in some city I hated. I had to learn the hard way that I didn't like small cities and college towns, nor did I like cold weather at all. And, that just so happens where most positions are eliminating about 75% of the options right off the bat...SOL!


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## amanda32

*volunteer in the place you want to work to gain some hands on experience? Employers really like when people work for free, it shows a lot of enthusiasm and it might be a way to get in.

*If you just want a job to pay the bills, don't put your Master's degree on your resume.


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## Brian1

You do know that there's a bait and switch to this whole stupid process, where it's kind of like the movie _Reality Bites_, where you go to a big name university, you're the valedictorian, and yet you end up in a crappy job of camera assistant,something like that Winona Ryder has in the movie,because no one really care about supersize credentials, its can you do the job,and yet the cruel twist is we install our kids the idea that if they behave, make good grades, get into a good school, well then everything will turn out all right,and many times that's not the case. 


Adrift said:


> It's not you. I saw a Mike Huckabee show about recent college grads and jobs last year and one guy had sent out 200 resumes and only heard back from 2 employers; he didn't even get an interview.
> 
> You are aware that Obamacare imposed a tax on medical devices and several of these medical device companies like Medtronic in California decided to layoff 500 workers in 2012 and another 500 workers in 2013. This means you are competing with many thousands of laid-off, experienced workers for jobs that aren't there right now. Good luck.
> 
> You should probably try to find work in another field and even think of moving to a business friendly state like Texas or North Dakota. Better yet, think of starting your own business; maybe catering or photography or match-making.


Edit: I wrote this around 3:10 am, I am not saying you're wrong on your original post. What I am saying is people are fed a lot of lies, half truths and inflated rhetoric on living the good life.


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## Adrift

@Brian1 ,there is no correlation between attending a prestigious university and salary. A study found that people of similar academic records and SAT scores got the same salaries no matter which university they attended.


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## Brian1

Adrift said:


> @_Brian1_ ,there is no correlation between attending a prestigious university and salary. A study found that people of similar academic records and SAT scores got the same salaries no matter which university they attended.


What was this study called,cause I know a guy who went to Harvard Business School and is now head of the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation? I'm no expert on this....this is the pitfall of posting late cause I didn't have a complete train thought,so right now, I'm just asking for some data.

U-VA just voted to raise their tuition,basically we're sending a generation of students into bankruptcy, which isn't healthy.


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## Adrift

Brian1 said:


> What was this study called,cause I know a guy who went to Harvard Business School and is now head of the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation?


I got it from Peter Schiff's "The Real Crash" but I don't have the reference for the study right now. I could probably look it up, but then....so can you.

The guy you knew is what's called an "outlier". Outliers don't affect the outcomes if the sample size is in the millions.


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## Agile

Adrift said:


> @Brian1 ,there is no correlation between attending a prestigious university and salary. A study found that people of similar academic records and SAT scores got the same salaries no matter which university they attended.


I feel you can infer this with the comparison between tuition inflation and consumer price inflation. If you look at the trend, the inflation of tuition fees have far surpassed the overall consumer prices. There simply isn't the demand to require tuition fees to be this high.


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## Adrift

@Agile yes, this is also covered in Peter Schiff's book. Tuition fees are inflated because of government subsidies. When the government gives out student loans, there is more money to be spent and universities will raise their tuition fees to get that extra money. Schiff pointed out that from 1810 to 1918 (before government subsidies), Yale's tuition fees went from $40/year to $180/year. Now it's over $40,000/year.


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## fihe

Adrift said:


> @Agile yes, this is also covered in Peter Schiff's book. Tuition fees are inflated because of government subsidies. When the government gives out student loans, there is more money to be spent and universities will raise their tuition fees to get that extra money. Schiff pointed out that from 1810 to 1918 (before government subsidies), Yale's tuition fees went from $40/year to $180/year. Now it's over $40,000/year.


Barf. everyone should just boycott college


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## serenesam

MBTI Enthusiast said:


> Well, this is going to be steam-of-consciousness style because I don't really know what I'm looking for, maybe just to rant, or maybe just to figure out if there's something wrong with me.
> 
> Yes, it's been 8 months since I graduated from an Ivy League school with my Master's degree in Biomedical Engineering. I've submitted over 50 applications and networked with over 20 people in the field. I even attended a career fair in the city where I'd like to relocate. I've worked with recruiters in my field and gotten employee referrals. I've read several books and articles on resumes, cover letters, and interviews. So far, I've gotten 7 interviews, but nothing has come through.
> 
> I try to remember the common stock phrases everyone keeps telling me: "Well, it IS a bad economy right now." "Something will come through sooner or later." "Don't give up!" But I don't know how much longer I can take this.
> 
> I've applied to jobs that require a Bachelor's degree with no experience - I was told that I was overqualified and would be "bored". I've applied to jobs that require a Bachelor's degree with ~3 years of experience, hoping my Master's degree can compensate - I was "warned" that there were several other candidates with more experience. I've applied to jobs that require a Master's degree with no experience - no word from those. I think my Master's degree might actually be hurting and not helping.
> 
> What am I doing wrong? Is there something wrong with me? I feel myself sliding further and further into depression each day. My 9 side wants to think on the positive side and be optimistic, but my 1 side is telling me how pathetic I am and my 3 side is suffering from the feeling of inadequacy. Not to mention my Self-Preservation side which is screaming and crying in protest.
> 
> If anyone has any insights, I would love to hear them. Thanks for reading.


Looks like I am not the only crazy person who believes hard science and engineering majors are going to encounter unemployment. Blaming it on President Obama is even more laughable. When will people ever understand that it does not matter who is the President or whether liberals or conservatives are in power? The population count is increasing and good luck trying to match the number of people to the number of jobs available. Perhaps the conspiracy theory of control freaks wanting to reduce the world’s population isn’t so looney after all. In fact, it would probably help the economy if you are a capitalistic enthusiast.


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## Bella2016

wow MBTI Enthusiast, I totally hear you with the depression. I was sitting around doing nothing for two months or more (that's not 8 months I know) before I suddenly got hired at a place which seemed to have forgotten me. I was overjoyed, but then I got fired a bit over a week ago. oops. I think I discovered last time that you get most depressed when you think you deserve better and you think your life should be better and more fulfilling than it is. So getting rid of those expectations helps a teeny bit with the side of depression which comes from sitting around doing nothing (and helps you to not just sit around doing nothing). It doesn't help with anything else like money issues, but at least as an INFJ who likes constant growth and development it calms down my crazy desire to be constantly achieving and improving myself. As an INFJ I also have some strange idea that money grows on trees... but that's probably not relevant right now, cause you're not an INFJ and it was months since you wrote that post, so I really hope you've found something.. ?


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## MBTI Enthusiast

Bella2013 said:


> wow MBTI Enthusiast, I totally hear you with the depression. I was sitting around doing nothing for two months or more (that's not 8 months I know) before I suddenly got hired at a place which seemed to have forgotten me. I was overjoyed, but then I got fired a bit over a week ago. oops. I think I discovered last time that you get most depressed when you think you deserve better and you think your life should be better and more fulfilling than it is. So getting rid of those expectations helps a teeny bit with the side of depression which comes from sitting around doing nothing (and helps you to not just sit around doing nothing). It doesn't help with anything else like money issues, but at least as an INFJ who likes constant growth and development it calms down my crazy desire to be constantly achieving and improving myself. As an INFJ I also have some strange idea that money grows on trees... but that's probably not relevant right now, cause you're not an INFJ and it was months since you wrote that post, so I really hope you've found something.. ?


Haha, thanks! It definitely helps to have something to work toward or achieve, which I didn't have for a little over 10 months, until I got this offer. I think my problem was that I was so used to succeeding with less than extremely hard work. I only applied to one college and got in early decision. For my internships during college, I sent out 5 unsolicited e-mails and got a job from one of them, then worked there the next summer, too. That's probably why not getting something after so long sent me into depression. I figured it shouldn't be THAT hard considering my alma mater, but it's a tough economy on everyone and experience is being valued MUCH more than education at this point. I just didn't do enough volunteer work or research during school to get me in more quickly, I guess. Anyway, here was my update post less than a month ago:



MBTI Enthusiast said:


> I just wanted to update the thread to say that I accepted a position with arguably the #1 medical device company in the US. :happy: It's only an internship, but it's paid very well ($30 per hour) and I can get my foot in the door there! I probably won't start for a month at least, but it's SO relieving to know I have something now. roud:
> 
> So how did it work out? I had an employee referral from the company, and I also was contacted by an internal recruiter that I previously interviewed with, and she offered to send recommendation notes to the hiring manager. (I still don't know her motivation for doing so - in the interview she didn't seem that nice! lol.) The whole thing was a done deal in about a week. (I was interviewed by phone and he gave me a verbal offer the same day. Then, I visited in-person on my own fruition a few days later. Two days after that I was given a formal offer.) However, I applied online to the position in early February. So yeah, networking is quite a big deal, unfortunately. There's no way around it.
> 
> So now I'd like some advice on how to turn this internship into a full-time position. Or how do I navigate getting a full-time job after this? I assume I should keep applying to stuff throughout the internship, but say that my start date isn't until the fall?
> 
> No rest for the weary. :tongue:


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## serenesam

MBTI Enthusiast said:


> Haha, thanks! It definitely helps to have something to work toward or achieve, which I didn't have for a little over 10 months, until I got this offer.


Not to be pessimistic, but some internships are only present for the sole purpose of giving a "fake" appearance as if everything is going well. I recall watching a documentary on Youtube a while back where recent law graduates got internships but after a while, they were tossed aside, thrown away like garbage. It's no different than the lives of some celebrities:








> I think my problem was that I was so used to succeeding with less than extremely hard work. I only applied to one college and got in early decision. For my internships during college, I sent out 5 unsolicited e-mails and got a job from one of them, then worked there the next summer, too. That's probably why not getting something after so long sent me into depression. I figured it shouldn't be THAT hard considering my alma mater, but it's a tough economy on everyone and experience is being valued MUCH more than education at this point. I just didn't do enough volunteer work or research during school to get me in more quickly, I guess.


Not to get all conspiratorial, but I could have sworn a while back looking at monster.com where there was an administrative position that is always advertised every week. I had to wonder why they still keep advertising after several months, maybe the job was fake. After all, it would be an embarrassment politically to whoever is the President of the US if no jobs were listed on monster.com. Maybe certain agencies are just paid or simply just exist for the sake of taking in resumes but you never hear from them ever again.


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## fihe

serenesam said:


> Not to get all conspiratorial, but I could have sworn a while back looking at monster.com where there was an administrative position that is always advertised every week. I had to wonder why they still keep advertising after several months, maybe the job was fake. After all, it would be an embarrassment politically to whoever is the President of the US if no jobs were listed on monster.com. Maybe certain agencies are just paid or simply just exist for the sake of taking in resumes but you never hear from them ever again.


I know in the field of education, it's extremely common for job advertisements to say "anticipated vacancy", meaning they're not yet sure if there will actually be a vacancy. one time I made an awesome application to a job that made it clear that it was not yet sure if it would even come to existence! in the district where I substitute teach, there have been many ads posted lately for teacher vacancies, yet I spoke to a teacher in the district and she said they're not even completely sure whether they are true openings.


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## serenesam

huesos said:


> in the district where I substitute teach, there have been many ads posted lately for teacher vacancies, yet I spoke to a teacher in the district and she said they're not even completely sure whether they are true openings.


That's because there is a high probability that they _aren't_.

I am a little skeptical at some of the jobs I see on Craigslist, Careerbuilder, - they make it look like there are always jobs out there but then _how come there are articles showing people struggling to get jobs?_


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## serenesam

I forgot to add that just visit some homeless shelters and you will see that there are definitely people willing to work but it just seems like nobody wants to hire them. There is this guy on Youtube, he goes around and interviews homeless people, people should really subscribe to his channel called *invisiblepeopletv*. You will see that the stigma and hatred against the homeless is pure ignorance:


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## Bella2016

MBTI Enthusiast said:


> Haha, thanks! It definitely helps to have something to work toward or achieve, which I didn't have for a little over 10 months, until I got this offer. I think my problem was that I was so used to succeeding with less than extremely hard work. I only applied to one college and got in early decision. For my internships during college, I sent out 5 unsolicited e-mails and got a job from one of them, then worked there the next summer, too. That's probably why not getting something after so long sent me into depression. I figured it shouldn't be THAT hard considering my alma mater, but it's a tough economy on everyone and experience is being valued MUCH more than education at this point. I just didn't do enough volunteer work or research during school to get me in more quickly, I guess. Anyway, here was my update post less than a month ago:


excellent, so glad to hear that. I probably should read the whole thread before replying next time...


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## jonah123

Try Online Jobs


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