# Si vs Fe - PoLR



## Apple Pine (Nov 27, 2014)

Yes, I did research. And I found a lot of misleading descriptions.

I am confidant on being NTJ on mbti. My socionics skills are not fenomenal.
The only two PoLR I can relate to are Si(a lot) and Fe(much, but sometimes not at all?. Feels like I have it, just ignore it, as it is not time-wise to use it?). 

Do you know any reliable sources? Or you could share you experience, if you are IxTJ/ExFJ? 

Thank you.


----------



## Dragheart Luard (May 13, 2013)

I'm sure of being Fe PoLR, so the things that EXEs value bother me or plainly don't make sense. I don't detect emotional atmospheres easily, and if someone tries to force me to be attuned to it I get annoyed. I disrupt them with my comments as I fail to see why I have to keep a fake environment, so I just speak my mind if things bother me. Why I have to hide my opinion if it's important to clear some issue? trying to hide them won't solve anything, unless I'm dealing with a brick wall. In that case I'm mute as it's a waste of time to explain my ideas.

I also don't adjust my values to the values of others, so I just follow my own crappy Fi when I have to deal with moral issues. So seeing others trying to shove the group values onto me is bothersome and I tend to isolate myself when that happens.

I express my emotions but that's limited to people that I trust, otherwise my default expression is a poker face or a bored expression.

Hope that this helps for knowing how this stuff may manifest in a practical way.


----------



## FearAndTrembling (Jun 5, 2013)

In the general sense, it seems to me that both feeling polrs want nothing to do with emotional situations. Or any kind of ceremony and nonsense like that. They don't want to talk about their feelings or anybody else's. First of all, that can apply to most thinking types, and INxx types, even introverts perhaps. It applies to most males I have met.


----------



## Apple Pine (Nov 27, 2014)

Blue Flare said:


> I'm sure of being Fe PoLR, so the things that EXEs value bother me or plainly don't make sense. I don't detect emotional atmospheres easily, and if someone tries to force me to be attuned to it I get annoyed. I disrupt them with my comments as I fail to see why I have to keep a fake environment, so I just speak my mind if things bother me. Why I have to hide my opinion if it's important to clear some issue? trying to hide them won't solve anything, unless I'm dealing with a brick wall. In that case I'm mute as it's a waste of time to explain my ideas.
> 
> I also don't adjust my values to the values of others, so I just follow my own crappy Fi when I have to deal with moral issues. So seeing others trying to shove the group values onto me is bothersome and I tend to isolate myself when that happens.
> 
> ...


Yea, makes sense to me. Except expressing emotions. I am quite expressive. Lol. I've been told once or twice, by friends, that I smile too much etc. And it's hard for me to keep rock face, unless I am angry. Lol. I mean, almost impossible 



FearAndTrembling said:


> In the general sense, it seems to me that both feeling polrs want nothing to do with emotional situations. Or any kind of ceremony and nonsense like that. They don't want to talk about their feelings or anybody else's. First of all, that can apply to most thinking types, and INxx types, even introverts perhaps. It applies to most males I have met.


Interesting. I actually don't mind listening to INFJ talking about emotions. Lol. But I don't do the same, I logically analyze that. I find it useful. He finds it useful. 
But that's right - I can't talk about how I feel if forced, because I don't know what I feel. Or maybe I just don't understand feelings language. It's like inside me, and shows up out of nothing. Lol, must be Fi. It's like Ni - you don't even understand where did it come from. 
And emotional situations are weird to me.


----------



## FearAndTrembling (Jun 5, 2013)

woogiefox said:


> Yea, makes sense to me. Except expressing emotions. I am quite expressive. Lol. I've been told once or twice, by friends, that I smile too much etc. And it's hard for me to keep rock face, unless I am angry. Lol. I mean, almost impossible
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There different kinds of Fe. It reminds me a Chris Rock joke. Who is more racist, white or black people? Black people. Cuz they hate black people too. lol. 

*There's a lot of racism going on. Who's more racist, black people or white people? It's black people! You know why? Because we hate black people too! Everything white people don't like about black people, black people really don't like about black people.

*

I hate most Fe too, who wouldn't? Any INxx type is gonna have problem with traditional Fe. Like weddings. Such vulgar displays of power. Wasted money, uninteresting people congratulating themselves. I said before, people have kids, and now I owe them money. How does that work? Why am I even obliged to show up for your wedding? Why does it need my participation? And people trying to pressure me into marriage or kids. lol. Never happen. Those are fightin words. You don't even suggest making important decisions about my life like that. That is Fe too. 

I mean, tons of houswives use Fe, but still fight like cats. Fe is probably a function where it really depends on where you come from. Because you somewhat assimilate the flavor of that environment. Tony Soprano's Fe is different than Tupac's Fe.


----------



## Apple Pine (Nov 27, 2014)

FearAndTrembling said:


> There different kinds of Fe. It reminds me a Chris Rock joke. Who is more racist, white or black people? Black people. Cuz they hate black people too. lol.
> 
> *There's a lot of racism going on. Who's more racist, black people or white people? It's black people! You know why? Because we hate black people too! Everything white people don't like about black people, black people really don't like about black people.
> 
> ...


*Gold*. :laughing:

I feel the same way. Lol. Totally. 

I find it interesting. I actually, until this month, lived in the environment of sensors, dumb people, near the city. And I am not exaggerating. _I assimilated nothing_, as everything seemed stupid. I stubbornly refused to fit in, to be like one of them. Oh, everyone tried hard, and questioned why I don't sit with others at the dinner table on family gatherings. I never cared who's married to who and stuff like that lol. etc.
But perhaps there hides a reason why I could actually be Fe? 

Perhaps not cognitively related at all, but:
But now there is an interesting thing. Until 2012 I felt miserable, thought I am this kind of "different" person. I was reserved and refused to fit in or assimilate behavior styles.
Then I went to a new school, the best in a city. I must say, I actually did try to fit in a lot. Not just behavior, but a lot of stuff changed just in a month. But I still refuse to fit in, if I don't find it cool for my personality. Lol. 
I noticed I take in quite a lot from everyone and upgrade myself - either it's talking style( I kinda talk like ENFJ landlord, who I talked with one evening, as I found it "cool for me"), a writing style or etc.


----------



## Dragheart Luard (May 13, 2013)

woogiefox said:


> Yea, makes sense to me. Except expressing emotions. I am quite expressive. Lol. I've been told once or twice, by friends, that I smile too much etc. And it's hard for me to keep rock face, unless I am angry. Lol. I mean, almost impossible


Well, I smile too but it's when I'm happy about things. Forcing me to smile when I don't want is like throwing acid to me, as I can't fake enthusiasm at all. So my own mood is what rules me for knowing if I should express something or just keep the poker face.

Also, do you think that you have a harder time dealing with inertia or having a weak sense of inner values? personally I have strong but black and white values and I'm a lazy ass that needs to be kicked in the ass by a Se dom for being really motivated to do stuff.

If you're considering Fe, then that could be other interesting option.


----------



## Apple Pine (Nov 27, 2014)

Blue Flare said:


> Also, do you think that you have a harder time dealing with inertia or having a weak sense of inner values? personally I have strong but black and white values and I'm a lazy ass that needs to be kicked in the ass by a Se dom for being really motivated to do stuff.
> 
> If you're considering Fe, then that could be other interesting option.


I don't even think of values that much. Like not at all. I have them - good, I can use them. But really, it's like I never think of what I truly value, it doesn't interest me. I'll better imagine something fascinating if I am bored. 
That would be inertia. But I idealize my plans to avoid doing nothing, so it ends with actually doing nothing. Lol. 
I think I am highly motivated to do stuff. It's just I seek perfection of how I use my time. Lol. Weird stuff. 

Hm.


----------



## Dragheart Luard (May 13, 2013)

woogiefox said:


> I don't even think of values that much. Like not at all. I have them - good, I can use them. But really, it's like I never think of what I truly value, it doesn't interest me. I'll better imagine something fascinating if I am bored.
> That would be inertia. But I idealize my plans to avoid doing nothing, so it ends with actually doing nothing. Lol.
> I think I am highly motivated to do stuff. It's just I seek perfection of how I use my time. Lol. Weird stuff.
> 
> Hm.


Do you think that your Te is the boss and Ni supports it, or that Ni related things are your main focus and that Te based logic merely supports your own vision?


----------



## Apple Pine (Nov 27, 2014)

Blue Flare said:


> Do you think that your Te is the boss and Ni supports it, or that Ni related things are your main focus and that Te based logic merely supports your own vision?


I would know whether I am ENTJ or INTJ, if I could answer to this.


----------



## Dragheart Luard (May 13, 2013)

woogiefox said:


> I would know whether I am ENTJ or INTJ, if I could answer to this.


Dunno if reading Jung's descriptions of Te and Ni could help to see what one makes more sense for you. They're quite extreme examples, but maybe they could give some clues to you.


----------



## Apple Pine (Nov 27, 2014)

Blue Flare said:


> Dunno if reading Jung's descriptions of Te and Ni could help to see what one makes more sense for you. They're quite extreme examples, but maybe they could give some clues to you.


The thing is that both make sense. Lol.


----------



## Typhon (Nov 13, 2012)

I have the same problem, not knowing whether ILI or LIE. I used to type as LIE then have settled for ILI...but not really sure atm.

Lets just say that description-wise, I relate more to ILI because I behave as an introvert, and ILIs have a classic introverted attitude. But relationship-wise LIE makes more sense, since I see myself more in duality with ESIs than with SEEs, as sometimes I don't understand SEEs' reactions where ILIs do, and ILIs don't understand ESI reactions where I do. Also, ILIs are likely to brush off SEE lack of "justice" as trivial whereas it bothers me...on the other hand, ESIs lack of acceptance towards new methods doesn't bother me. Seems like I tolerate(and even like) Ne PoLR better than Ti PoLR.


----------



## Apple Pine (Nov 27, 2014)

Typhon said:


> I have the same problem, not knowing whether ILI or LIE. I used to type as LIE then have settled for ILI...but not really sure atm.
> 
> Lets just say that description-wise, I relate more to ILI because I behave as an introvert, and ILIs have a classic introverted attitude. But relationship-wise LIE makes more sense, since I see myself more in duality with ESIs than with SEEs, as sometimes I don't understand SEEs' reactions where ILIs do, and ILIs don't understand ESI reactions where I do. Also, ILIs are likely to brush off SEE lack of "justice" as trivial whereas it bothers me...on the other hand, ESIs lack of acceptance towards new methods doesn't bother me. Seems like I tolerate(and even like) Ne PoLR better than Ti PoLR.


Well, you are 5w4. I guess it kinda leads you to more likely being an ILI.
Relationships - it solely depends on people. It can be different. I am not sure it's a good way to determine LIE or ILI. 

Tho, IxFP or ExFP? I think I'd tolerate Ne better. Ti PoLR is lol.


----------



## Typhon (Nov 13, 2012)

woogiefox said:


> Well, you are 5w4. I guess it kinda leads you to more likely being an ILI.
> Relationships - it solely depends on people. It can be different. I am not sure it's a good way to determine LIE or ILI.
> 
> Tho, IxFP or ExFP? I think I'd tolerate Ne better. Ti PoLR is lol.


Yeah, but I'm not 100 percent sure on being 5w4, though some kind of withdrawn type is more likely and LIE is typically associated with the assertive types(3,7,8). 

I agree that relationships depends on individuals, but let me give you an example of what I mean. There was this restaurant I used to go with my parents and the owner was SEE. One time we were going to his restaurant and we crossed him in the street(the SEE owner), I said hi to him and he didn't say hi back...I was offended, like what a jerk. I asked my dad(ILI) about it and my dad said the owner had avoided greeting me "out of discretion". Appearantly my dad understood this stranger's intentions better than I did, though I never got what was meant by "out of discretion". I asked my dad about it afterwards but he never answered. 

Thats just one example I could give you others. But the point is that where I found this man rude, my dad excused it, which leads me to believe we didn't have the same socionics relation to him. I'm pretty sure my dad was ILI btw, maybe SLI but I doubt it.


----------



## Apple Pine (Nov 27, 2014)

Typhon said:


> Yeah, but I'm not 100 percent sure on being 5w4, though some kind of withdrawn type is more likely and LIE is typically associated with the assertive types(3,7,8).
> 
> I agree that relationships depends on individuals, but let me give you an example of what I mean. There was this restaurant I used to go with my parents and the owner was SEE. One time we were going to his restaurant and we crossed him in the street(the SEE owner), I said hi to him and he didn't say hi back...I was offended, like what a jerk. I asked my dad(ILI) about it and my dad said the owner had avoided greeting me "out of discretion". Appearantly my dad understood this stranger's intentions better than I did, though I never got what was meant by "out of discretion". I asked my dad about it afterwards but he never answered.
> 
> Thats just one example I could give you others. But the point is that where I found this man rude, my dad excused it, which leads me to believe we didn't have the same socionics relation to him. I'm pretty sure my dad was ILI btw, maybe SLI but I doubt it.


I think 5 seems good enough for you.
lol. I am most likely 3 > 8 > 7. I've been numerous times that I cannot be 5. At least not core 5. And I agree with that.

Trying to imagine what I'd think. "What's up with this idiot, and why would he not respond, am I too "low" level to this creature?". lol. I like to judge people instantly. Based on their behavior or even what t-shirt thirt hey are wearing. Who cares about discretion? or whatever it is, if I said hi - at least respond, unless it's in some "special" place. Tho, If I understood it's "wrong" to say hi to him outside the work, I wouldn't say hi, and here we have no problems. 
So it's quite in between. I understand your father in this case, and I understand you. I'd act, depending on whether I know it's "wrong" to say hi outside the work or not.


----------



## Typhon (Nov 13, 2012)

woogiefox said:


> I think 5 seems good enough for you.
> lol. I am most likely 3 > 8 > 7. I've been numerous times that I cannot be 5. At least not core 5. And I agree with that.
> 
> Trying to imagine what I'd think. "What's up with this idiot, and why would he not respond, am I too "low" level to this creature?". lol. I like to judge people instantly. Based on their behavior or even what t-shirt thirt hey are wearing. Who cares about discretion? or whatever it is, if I said hi - at least respond, unless it's in some "special" place. Tho, If I understood it's "wrong" to say hi to him outside the work, I wouldn't say hi, and here we have no problems.
> So it's quite in between. I understand your father in this case, and I understand you. I'd act, depending on whether I know it's "wrong" to say hi outside the work or not.


Yes, I agree with you. However, I don't think it was innapropriate of this guy to say hi to me, as I was a customer in his restaurant, and he had every reason to keep me as a customer by being friendly even if it was a show to keep me as a customer(which he didn't manage to do). Maybe it was just distraction on his part, but I get it from SEEs alot, whereas ESIs I find are more attentive to trifles in social interaction and whatnot. 

Why do you think 5 is good for me? Not saying it isn't but I'm curious to hear your answer! Why do you think you are an assertive type? Why 3?


----------



## Apple Pine (Nov 27, 2014)

Typhon said:


> Yes, I agree with you. However, I don't think it was innapropriate of this guy to say hi to me, as I was a customer in his restaurant, and he had every reason to keep me as a customer by being friendly even if it was a show to keep me as a customer(which he didn't manage to do). Maybe it was just distraction on his part, but I get it from SEEs alot, whereas ESIs I find are more attentive to trifles in social interaction and whatnot.
> 
> Why do you think 5 is good for me? Not saying it isn't but I'm curious to hear your answer! Why do you think you are an assertive type? Why 3?


I don't think so too. Like it's just a hi. Lol. 
But those serious-minded owners have to be careful.
I don't meet many people, so I don't know what to add. 

Because you seem to be 5. lol. My life is impressions, I rarely try to explain why something is the way it is. I just know it is like this or this, and it's good enough to me. 
Tho, I am honestly not good at explaining why I think one is ESTP, or one is 4 or 5. I understand the cognition, but explaining why I think the way I do ends with a messy or straight to the point post. lol. Also, explaining why I think you are 5 now would be a waste. That would simply be an interpretation of textbook 5. That explanation would not really help. Would only show that I really understand what 5 is, therefore make you more convinced that I am right. 

Because I am 3. Haven't changed my mind since the day 2 after starting mbti.


----------



## Typhon (Nov 13, 2012)

woogiefox said:


> I don't think so too. Like it's just a hi. Lol.
> But those serious-minded owners have to be careful.
> I don't meet many people, so I don't know what to add.
> 
> ...


3w4, or just 3, seems to correlate to LIE better than ILI. Just like 5 seems to correlate to ILI better than LIE.

So if you don't doubt me being ILI, based on my enneagram, why doubt being LIE if you are 3w4?


----------



## Apple Pine (Nov 27, 2014)

Typhon said:


> 3w4, or just 3, seems to correlate to LIE better than ILI. Just like 5 seems to correlate to ILI better than LIE.


That's right. Knew that. :wink:


----------

