# INTJ, Or Maybe Something Else?



## Diamante (Mar 16, 2016)

My Involvement With MBTI​
Okay, so some months ago I stumbled across MBTI and got interested; I did one MBTI-test and it labeled me an INTJ. I did relate to the type but when an acquaintance said he also was an INTJ I started to doubt myself as an INTJ, I know that people of the same type doesn't need to resemble each other that much, but he and I are really different. However, after that I looked into the subject, read through every type to try and find a better fit, read through the cognitive functions and during a week I was absorbed with MBTI trying to figure out my type. After a week or so I let it go to distance myself from it so that I could pick it up in a month or so; during these two months I reflected a little more about my actions and how/why I did things.

But despite that I'm still at a loss, when I did the test after that the test said that I was an INTP and I soon started to question that outcome too; that's why I joined this forum. 

Childhood/Teenage Years​
Just a quick summary of my childhood, I'm not sure if it really is relevant but I've also heard that certain temperaments may (not always) evolve into Introverted/Extroverted-preferences. I've also heard that your MBTI-type doesn't change during your lifetime so I thought I would give you a brief summary to give you something extra that may, or may not, help you. 

As a child: 
- Had a lot of friends and loved to socialize with them. 
- Nerd but athletically capable so I probably didn't look like the casual nerd. 
- Talked a lot, my teachers told me to shut up during class for ten years but nothing happened. 
- Active, with comments like "Does he go on batteries?" 
- I played outdoors with a friend until I was 14-15, we created an imaginary world and played. It became harder and harder because of the fact that we needed more complex worlds after time to feel satisfied. 

I talked to a friend recently that knew me back then and he described me as following: 
- "You were book smart and did well in school but you also did a lot of stupid things, like falling out of trees." 

As a teenager hell broke loose:
- Fell in love with a destructive person and a lot of shit happened, I cut the ties with this person after roughly two years
- When I was 16-17 I started to pull away from friends because of what happened, I still had friends in school but I rarely hung out with friends privately for some years. 

Extroverted or Introverted​
So after feeding you with some (maybe) irrelevant information we get to present time and I should probably tell you that one of the reasons I questioned both INTP and INTJ is because of this question; am I extroverted or introverted? 

How I work socially: 
- I don't spend a lot of time with friends privately, some work, some study while I also work and study so it's hard to plan something that often. However, I spend at least two to three hours a day talking with my family and sometimes I leave my room, when bored to see if someone is doing something interesting, usually they don't. When I move out I may visit often because it will be really empty going from living with five family members around you to living alone. 
- I have a group of shallow friends and those are the people I talk the most too; when we meet we joke around and are having a good time simply put. I do have some deeper friendships but I prefer this shallow group of friends because like this I don't need to invest a lot of time to take care of the friendship. Sometimes we go out to party and I think that's pretty funny, when I get drunk I get very extroverted but I guess that's normal because alcohol. 
- I talk with a bunch of people over facebook/whatsapp/other forums. 
- I work in a store, partly as a cashier, so I guess my work is extroverted but when I've worked I prefer to sit down in front of the computer for some time to wind down. 
- My past girlfriends relatives have all liked me, thought I was charming etc. when I was still in school teachers usually liked me and some people have said that I have a certain "charisma". 
- I'm not very fond of oral presentations in front of a class, I usually feel very nervous about it, but people say that I look really calm while doing it and that they couldn't see that I was nervous. 
- If people like me and I'm in a center of attention-position I may have a problem with a person that could rival that position. It's not like I want to be in the center of attention all the time (sometimes I want to be by myself or with a chosen few) but I don't like the thought of people being as interesting or more interesting than I. 
- I'm usually not comfortable hugging people as a greeting, exceptions are people I know well or women I like. 
- I'm better at writing with people than talking to them but, as I said above, people that have solely talked to me find me charming. It could simply be because I'm good with words and that little extra time you get when writing makes you able to come off as extra charming. Also, when writing I'm able to express compliments and, maybe, feelings in another way but when I talk compliments feel empty and expressing feelings in words is rarely an option. 
- When I talk with people using chat I usually plan the conversation, often knowing what to answer before I have gotten the answer and I could plan actions that lead to conversation. Example; I open up in a group chat, she contact me and from there conversation flows naturally instead of a scenario where I contact them for no apparent reason and with that risking an awkward conversation. I also do that though and some times it works, some times it fails. 
- I may come off as reserved and quiet, also I need a proper reason to feel comfortable starting a conversation with a new person; a good conversation starter in other words. 
- If I talk/discuss something with someone for the first time I usually take my time measuring the new person before I join the discussion. 
- During training courses with work (four hours, one day) I'm usually rather quiet and reserved. I have no problem responding or joking if I'm talked to or joked with though. It may be worth to mention that he people on this training course usually are 20-30 years older than me. 

Other Information​
- I don't open up easily, I'm not comfortable talking about feelings; my own or anyone else's. It takes a long time to really get to know me. The reason why I break this rule in this post is to give you as much information as possible; I want to know my type, you can help me and thus I need to feed you information. 
- When people want to talk about problems I would probably offer solutions to the problem rather than emotional support. 
- My latest girlfriend hated the fact that I was obsessed with winning arguments. She also said I was a poor listener, at least when I did other things because I didn't listen to her while I was doing something I found interesting. She gave me long letters with criticism and I didn't mind, I also agreed with some of her points because they rang true; it didn't chance though but it could be because I doubted the relationship and didn't find an appealing enough reason to change. 
- I rarely truly desire the leader position when doing school work but it usually end with me as the leader; either because I took the position because no one else wanted it, because people in the group said that I should be the leader or because I chose to be the leader because, except for me, the group was lacking people competent enough to be the leader. 
- I think a lot and my mother have told me that I shouldn't think that much because she believes that it can't be healthy. I also like to discuss my ideas and because of that I enjoy forums interesting enough (like this) to discuss my ideas OR I turn to my family and discuss the matter with them. Sometimes I just need a sounding board. 
- I have discussions with myself inside my head for different reasons, one could be that I try to argue two different points at the same time. 
- I'm pretty good with people but at the same time people are a mystery to me; some times people just do things that doesn't make any sense. Also, when my ex said she was feeling down I asked why and she said she didn't know which frustrated me; even if I get that you can feel down for no apparent reason I still want to know why. Also, she said that she just wanted me to be there for her in those times instead of suggesting eventual solutions to the problem. 
- I have a long term plan for the future that may or may not work out: Studying to become a teacher -> Maybe getting into politics -> Writing a book. I don't think I have enough experience/knowledge to get involved in politics yet and writing a book in my older days may make it more original because of the fact that I believe that you are more prone to be inspired by a lot of people when you're young which may end in a less original book. 
- I enjoy training because it makes me sort out my thoughts but I also enjoy doing the following in my spare time; read books/comic books/manga, watch tv-shows/movies, write, check facts, play games on my computer, Xbox One, Ps3 or New Nintendo 3Ds. Hanging out with friends from time to time, I often prefer doing things with them; going to the movies is more appealing to me than watching a movie at one of my friend's place, partying etc. 
- Movies rarely affect me emotionally, or in other words, I rarely cry to movies.
- Last time I dated a girl I made a plan and it almost worked out; I did not include her feelings in my plan and she got feelings for another guy. Also, I'm no stranger when it comes to making a move when you're watching a movie. 
- When I did an Enneagram-test it said I most likely was a 3w4. 

The End​
Okay, now I've tried to feed you a lot of information and I chose to not use one of the forms because of the fact that it felt like I had a lot of information that I could share with you without using the forms and, if you still couldn't help me with my typing, I could always turn to the forms by then. 

If you want to need more things, ask. Also, check out the few posts that I have made, that may give you additional information that I haven't shared above. Thanks for reading, hopefully you can help me with my typing so that I may understand myself a little better.


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## Blue Leaf Mark (Feb 10, 2016)

You sound a bit like an ENTP, have you thought about that? They're known to be one of the most introvert of the extroverted types, so maybe that's where your I/E confusion comes from. I'm not an expert, so I can't give you my exact reasoning for this in fear that I may mislead you into thinking that you're certain type when you're not, but I think you should consider it.


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

From that info I would also guess ENTP. What do you think?


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## Diamante (Mar 16, 2016)

@ghostfire01 and @Kitty23

First off, thank for your answers. Secondly, I can totally see myself being an ENTP; personally I'm pretty convinced that I am a xNTx-type but I was very uncertain about if I were J over P or I over E. You both put me as an ENTP which makes me think that there probably is some truth in what you both say and I will look through the ENTP-profile again. 

I will wait for more answers to see what other people say so that I can get more insight in this matter but, as I said above, I will check into the ENTP-profile again. But I must say that I'm surprised, I didn't see ENTP coming but I guess that's partly why I'm here in the end; to get suggestions/find out possibilities that I didn't really consider myself.


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

Let me show you why I think ENTP is a good possibility for you. 



> Childhood/Teenage Years
> 
> Just a quick summary of my childhood, I'm not sure if it really is relevant but I've also heard that certain temperaments may (not always) evolve into Introverted/Extroverted-preferences. I've also heard that your MBTI-type doesn't change during your lifetime so I thought I would give you a brief summary to give you something extra that may, or may not, help you.


Ok. So this is good you wrote about your childhood because we tend to be our natural selves- our true mbti type when children. True, your myers briggs type does not change during your lifetime. 



> As a child:
> - Had a lot of friends and loved to socialize with them.
> - Nerd but athletically capable so I probably didn't look like the casual nerd.
> - Talked a lot, my teachers told me to shut up during class for ten years but nothing happened.
> ...


Sounds like extraversion and intuition. I also think Ne tends to get more bored than Ni does. Just like Se gets bored of things compared to Si. 



> I talked to a friend recently that knew me back then and he described me as following:
> - "You were book smart and did well in school but you also did a lot of stupid things, like falling out of trees."


Ok. Could be Se. 



> As a teenager hell broke loose:
> - Fell in love with a destructive person and a lot of shit happened, I cut the ties with this person after roughly two years
> - When I was 16-17 I started to pull away from friends because of what happened, I still had friends in school but I rarely hung out with friends privately for some years.


So it sounds like you started becoming more withdrawn here. 



> Extroverted or Introverted
> 
> So after feeding you with some (maybe) irrelevant information we get to present time and I should probably tell you that one of the reasons I questioned both INTP and INTJ is because of this question; am I extroverted or introverted?


I'm seeing extraversion so far. 



> How I work socially:
> - I don't spend a lot of time with friends privately, some work, some study while I also work and study so it's hard to plan something that often. However, I spend at least two to three hours a day talking with my family and sometimes I leave my room, when bored to see if someone is doing something interesting, usually they don't. When I move out I may visit often because it will be really empty going from living with five family members around you to living alone.
> - I have a group of shallow friends and those are the people I talk the most too; when we meet we joke around and are having a good time simply put. I do have some deeper friendships but I prefer this shallow group of friends because like this I don't need to invest a lot of time to take care of the friendship. Sometimes we go out to party and I think that's pretty funny, when I get drunk I get very extroverted but I guess that's normal because alcohol.


So again extraversion. So the extraverted functions are more "shallow"- not in bad way though, compared to the introverted functions. So again, E over I for you. 



> - I talk with a bunch of people over facebook/whatsapp/other forums.
> - I work in a store, partly as a cashier, so I guess my work is extroverted but when I've worked I prefer to sit down in front of the computer for some time to wind down.
> - My past girlfriends relatives have all liked me, thought I was charming etc. when I was still in school teachers usually liked me and some people have said that I have a certain "charisma".
> - I'm not very fond of oral presentations in front of a class, I usually feel very nervous about it, but people say that I look really calm while doing it and that they couldn't see that I was nervous.


Sounds like extraversion and Fe. Fe has a charm to it that Fi does not. So Fe users also tend to be more natural at oral presentations. So right here I highly doubt XNTJ for you. 



> - If people like me and I'm in a center of attention-position I may have a problem with a person that could rival that position. It's not like I want to be in the center of attention all the time (sometimes I want to be by myself or with a chosen few) but I don't like the thought of people being as interesting or more interesting than I.


The more interesting thing could be Fi or type 4 on the enneagram. But since I saw Fe for you, I'm going to say type 4 is in you.



> - I'm usually not comfortable hugging people as a greeting, exceptions are people I know well or women I like.


I don't even really like hugging people I know well or guys I like, So I think lower Fe for you and probably thinking over feeling. 



> - I'm better at writing with people than talking to them but, as I said above, people that have solely talked to me find me charming. It could simply be because I'm good with words and that little extra time you get when writing makes you able to come off as extra charming. Also, when writing I'm able to express compliments and, maybe, feelings in another way but when I talk compliments feel empty and expressing feelings in words is rarely an option.


So maybe lower Fe. 



> - When I talk with people using chat I usually plan the conversation, often knowing what to answer before I have gotten the answer and I could plan actions that lead to conversation. Example; I open up in a group chat, she contact me and from there conversation flows naturally instead of a scenario where I contact them for no apparent reason and with that risking an awkward conversation. I also do that though and some times it works, some times it fails.


Yes, I do that as well. I think this could be for any type. 



> - I may come off as reserved and quiet, also I need a proper reason to feel comfortable starting a conversation with a new person; a good conversation starter in other words.
> - If I talk/discuss something with someone for the first time I usually take my time measuring the new person before I join the discussion.
> - During training courses with work (four hours, one day) I'm usually rather quiet and reserved. I have no problem responding or joking if I'm talked to or joked with though. It may be worth to mention that he people on this training course usually are 20-30 years older than me.


Could be introversion, but this just isn't sold evidence for introversion. 



> Other Information
> 
> - I don't open up easily, I'm not comfortable talking about feelings; my own or anyone else's. It takes a long time to really get to know me. The reason why I break this rule in this post is to give you as much information as possible; I want to know my type, you can help me and thus I need to feed you information.


So probably thinking over feeling. 



> - When people want to talk about problems I would probably offer solutions to the problem rather than emotional support.
> - My latest girlfriend hated the fact that I was obsessed with winning arguments. She also said I was a poor listener, at least when I did other things because I didn't listen to her while I was doing something I found interesting. She gave me long letters with criticism and I didn't mind, I also agreed with some of her points because they rang true; it didn't chance though but it could be because I doubted the relationship and didn't find an appealing enough reason to change.


Sounds like extraversion and thinking over feeling. 



> - I think a lot and my mother have told me that I shouldn't think that much because she believes that it can't be healthy. I also like to discuss my ideas and because of that I enjoy forums interesting enough (like this) to discuss my ideas OR I turn to my family and discuss the matter with them. Sometimes I just need a sounding board.


Overthinking could be Ti. Ne loves to discuss ideas whereas Ni not so much. So I see Ne over Ni for you. 



> - I have discussions with myself inside my head for different reasons, one could be that I try to argue two different points at the same time.


Ne is good at arguing two different points at the same time. And NT's stereotypically love debating/arguing. 



> - I'm pretty good with people but at the same time people are a mystery to me; some times people just do things that doesn't make any sense. Also, when my ex said she was feeling down I asked why and she said she didn't know which frustrated me; even if I get that you can feel down for no apparent reason I still want to know why. Also, she said that she just wanted me to be there for her in those times instead of suggesting eventual solutions to the problem.


Maybe Ti. 



> - I have a long term plan for the future that may or may not work out: Studying to become a teacher -> Maybe getting into politics -> Writing a book. I don't think I have enough experience/knowledge to get involved in politics yet and writing a book in my older days may make it more original because of the fact that I believe that you are more prone to be inspired by a lot of people when you're young which may end in a less original book.


Long term plan could Ni...but any type can make long term plans. I did and I am a dominant Si user. 



> - I enjoy training because it makes me sort out my thoughts but I also enjoy doing the following in my spare time; read books/comic books/manga, watch tv-shows/movies, write, check facts, play games on my computer, Xbox One, Ps3 or New Nintendo 3Ds. Hanging out with friends from time to time, I often prefer doing things with them; going to the movies is more appealing to me than watching a movie at one of my friend's place, partying etc.


Last part could be extraversion. 



> - Movies rarely affect me emotionally, or in other words, I rarely cry to movies.
> - Last time I dated a girl I made a plan and it almost worked out; I did not include her feelings in my plan and she got feelings for another guy. Also, I'm no stranger when it comes to making a move when you're watching a movie.
> - When I did an Enneagram-test it said I most likely was a 3w4.


Sounds like thinking over feeling. And yep, you even showed evidence for type 4 earlier in what you wrote. 

So, I see the most evidence for ENTP. Did that help? 

You can also have people guess your type as many times as you want on this thread:
http://personalitycafe.com/myers-br...-things-about-yourself-type-person-above.html


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

If you want here are the typing questionnaires: 

http://personalitycafe.com/whats-my-personality-type/99679-whats-my-type-questionnaire.html

http://personalitycafe.com/whats-my...ive-scenario-questionnaire-2-0-self-type.html


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## purplegreen (Jan 5, 2016)

ENTP
Very ExTP


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## Diamante (Mar 16, 2016)

@Kitty23

Thanks for going through how you have thought thoroughly, now if anyone have another line of thought it will be easier for me to see where and why your thoughts about my type differ from each other. Also, I'm interested in knowing why I am a certain type and not just that I am.

Your links may be helpful so I appreciate that.

@purplegreen 

Thanks for your answer, ENTP or at least ExTP, that's interesting especially when 3/3 have suggested ENTP as my typing. 

Questionnaire​
0. Is there anything that may affect the way you answer the questions? For example, a stressful time, mental illness, medications, special life circumstances? Other useful information includes sex, age, and current state of mind.

*Answer:* I mentioned this above, a part of my teenage went to hell and I almost stopped hanging out with friends privately but despite this I still had friends in school and since school was five days a week I really didn't see that much of a reason to hang out with the same persons during my spare time. There was some conflicts, I lost a friend and thus stopped hanging out with a big group of friends that I had been partying with for a short time. 

However, the stressful time in my teenage, briefly going through it, was a time where I thought that I would get killed and the person that was the threat stabbed another guy a year after I had broke it off with the person. It may have affected my own typing because of the fact that after that I probably started to identify (maybe even acting more like an introvert) with being an introvert despite the fact that I until then, and maybe even after, most likely was an extrovert. 

I'm a male, 23 years old. 

1. Click on this link: Flickr: Explore! Look at the random photo for about 30 seconds. Copy and paste it here, and write about your impression of it.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/25578217870/in/explore-2016-03-18/

*Answer:* Not sure if I did it right now but I closed my eyes and picked a picture so that it would be random; that will have to suffice. 

About my impression, it's a pink flower and despite I'm not a big fan of the color pink the flower is somewhat beautiful. The background is green and it made me curious about how the background look and where the flower is located, also, the middle of the flower look a lot like the Sarlac Pit from Star Wars; I swear that it is the flower-version of the Sarlac Pit. 

2. You are with a group of people in a car, heading to a different town to see your favourite band/artist/musician. Suddenly, the car breaks down for an unknown reason in the middle of nowhere. What are your initial thoughts? What are your outward reactions?

*Answer:* Favorite* 

Okay, if it breaks down peacefully and we slow down so that we can steer the car to the side of the road I would probably not have that much of an outward reaction and if it broke down less peacefully I guess it would be natural to be shocked about the fact that hell is breaking loose without no reason. 

However, I'm sure that you're thinking about the first scenario where the car breaks down peacefully; in that case I would probably discuss the eventual problem with my friends and my initial thoughts would probably be to find a solution to the problem. I usually don't do concerts but I can imagine that I may get annoyed that the car is breaking down at a time like this but despite that I would try to distance myself from those feelings so that I truly could concentrate on the problem at hand. 

3. You somehow make it to the concert. The driver wants to go to the afterparty that was announced (and assure you they won't drink so they can drive back later). How do you feel about this party? What do you do?

*Answer:* I would probably feel good about this party, it could be fun and I would probably start to drink with my friends, most likely having a decent or a good time. When sober I usually have a problem dancing but when drunk I loosen up a lot so I would probably be dancing with some of my friends, having fun and trying to find a pretty and interesting girl. Despite keeping my eyes open for a woman it would not be my goal with the evening because if you don't find one to hook up with you'll be disappointed if you made it your goal, it's better to just have fun and go with the flow. When I'm drunk I may walk around alone at the party, finding other groups to hang out and have a good time with. 

4. On the drive back, your friends are talking. A friend makes a claim that clashes with your current beliefs. What is your inward reaction? What do you outwardly say?

*Answer:*: I would listen to what he has to say and I would inwardly get interested, outwardly I would question him about it and if I find his claim stupid I will argue with him, trying to change his mind or, at least, question his initial claim. If he makes really good arguments I would probably question my current beliefs and see if they could be changed or improved. 

5. What would you do if you actually saw/experienced something that clashes with your previous beliefs, experiences, and habits?

*Answer:*I would probably question my previous beliefs, experienced and habits but I wouldn't discard them immediately. I would think it over, probably do some research and talk/discuss it with people before I changed my initial beliefs; arguing with something that I saw/experienced would be hard so I would probably change but I would like to find more reasons to change than just this one experience. Plus it would probably be really interesting to talk and discuss it with other people. 

6. What are some of your most important values? How did you come about determining them? How can they change?

*Answer:* I value intelligence and competence in people, also a sense of humor. I'm not that picky, as long as the person is interesting so I guess that I value a certain intrigue in persons. I guess I find intelligent and competent people more interesting and a sense of humor is important otherwise it's a risk that I get bored easily. I've asked myself if this was the values you asked about and not political/other values? However, if they change (if I hang out with a dumb and incompetent person) it's probably because the person have another quality that pleases me. 

7. a) What about your personality most distinguishes you from everyone else? b) If you could change one thing about you personality, what would it be? Why?

*Answer:* Maybe that I can seem rather reserved but when I start talking I can do so for a long time, I'm also a total tease (big brother syndrome) so I love teasing people that are easy to irritate/anger; when I did this as a teenager I had a friend that got so mad that he started to punch me, I think he even jumped on the top of me one time and the only thing I could do was laugh; I never held it against him, I knew that I played a game that could end with him punching me so I didn't mind really. Maybe I'm slightly mad? My friends think I sound insane in an, according to them, hilarious way when I speak about my dreams (dreams as when you sleep that is) and it could happen when I share a thought of mine. 

I would probably change my arrogance, I suffer from a certain arrogance and the reason I would change that is because I do believe that arrogance may hold me back in life. Being confident is good, being arrogant is not. 

8. How do you treat hunches or gut feelings? In what situations are they most often triggered?

*Answer:* These things are probably triggered most often when it comes to people and when I get a gut feeling I may act on it and if I can't do anything about it the gut feeling may nag at me until it is confirmed that the gut feeling was wrong/right. However, when I get a gut feeling in these situations I usually try to find out if it's wrong or right in a discrete way trying to confirm it. I never truly confront someone because of a gut feeling, I need evidence to do that kind of thing. 

My gut feeling is pretty reliable, usually there is some truth to it. 

9. a) What activities energize you most? b) What activities drain you most? Why?

*Answer:* Boring activities drain me the most and fun activities energize me the most; if I have fun I often get energized and it doesn't matter if I read a good book or if I'm playing some football with my friends as long as it isn't boring. I really can't put my finger on activities (except for the boring ones) that drain mental energy from me, there are things, like parties, that drain me of physical energy but that's because of the lack of sleep and that there is a certain amount of alcohol involved. 

Training drain me though, but it's draining physical energy and that's the point if you're doing it right.  

10. What do you repress about your outward behavior or internal thought process when around others? Why?

*Answer:* Not sure if my internal thought process is repressed or changed when I'm around others; it's not something I've thought about so I can't really give a good answer to that part of the question.

However, people that know me well say that I'm a social chameleon; when I'm with my friends I'm usually more immature than when I'm with my hypothetical girlfriend's parents because I understand that the highly immature-part of me may not be very appropriate when I talk to my girlfriends parents. However, I never change the person I am, I just use the different sides of my personality depending on when they're the most useful. I guess the argumentative-part of my personality never really change though, because I believe that you should be able to discuss with almost anyone if you find something interesting enough to discuss. 

That's that​
That was one questionnaire, hopefully it helps. @ghostfire01 maybe you're interested in taking a look at this too?


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## Dental Floss Tycoon (Apr 4, 2011)

You seem to be ExTP. Still not sure if you're S or N. And your enneagram type seems to be accurate according to your descriptions.


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

I would say either ENTP or ESTP. I could also see more of your Fe and enneagram type 3 in it. 



> I would think it over, probably do some research and *talk/discuss it with people before I changed my initial beliefs*;


 - Fe. 
Fe discusses its beliefs with others before/when changing them. Fi does not. Because Fe= external values and Fi= internal values. 



> However, people that know me well say that *I'm a social chameleon*; when I'm with my friends I'm usually more immature than when I'm with my hypothetical girlfriend's parents because I understand that the highly immature-part of me may not be very appropriate when I talk to my girlfriends parents. However, I never change the person I am, I just use the different sides of my personality depending on *when they're the most useful.*


First part could just be Fe. The last part though definitely sounds like type 3 on the enneagram.


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## Diamante (Mar 16, 2016)

@Dental Floss Tycoon

Thanks for the answer and all people that have answered have said ENTP or at least ExTP so now It feels like there probably really is some truth to it. However, I will share something I did send to @Kitty23: 

"I was out partying last night and it made me, once again, uncertain if I'm an extroverted person. Like, I have a rather easy time talking to guys, greeting them, joking etc. but when it come to girls I usually feel at loss because I find it so hard to just walk up to a girl for no reasonable reason and then try to talk (scream because of the high music) for no reason. Sure, I briefly talked to some girls but it didn't turn into something more.

Also, even if I had a good time I started to question clubs as a way of social interactions; like the eventual relationship you create in a club feel so meaningless and hollow, I don't find it socially satisfying since I can't talk properly to the persons I meet. However, it can still be a good night since I'm dancing, joking around with my friends and meet funny people on the bus on the way home."

I thought I would share when I have doubts.


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## Dental Floss Tycoon (Apr 4, 2011)

@Diamante, ENTPs are known as the introverted extraverted. They usually don't go out that much, though their focus of attention is on the external world (I question myself if there's really such thing as internal and external world, but you know what I meant). They get energized by objective stimuli. A few ENTPs friends have come asking me this very same question and every time someone does it the first thing I think of is Ne. So I'm not impressed by what you're saying. This wouldn't be so true if you were a Se dom. Se is more like the stereotype of extroverted people. 

But it's up to you, much of this can be purely stereotype, no one can type you better than yourself.


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## Diamante (Mar 16, 2016)

@Dental Floss Tycoon 

So, if I understood you, you believe that ENTP is more plausible for me than ESTP? Because I agree, I would probably relate to the ENTP-type much easier than I would to the ESTP and of that I'm rather certain. 

And it feel like some things would fall into place if I'm an ENTP because even if I could relate to INTP/INTJ the social-awkwardness that was descried never rang true with who I am; and, as ENTP apparently is known as the introverted extrovert, things like my Extrovert/Introvert-confusion would also explain itself. 

I'm appreciating the answers I've gotten so far, it was interesting and refreshing to get some objective insight into the matter.


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

@Diamante 



> "I was out partying last night and it made me, once again, uncertain if I'm an extroverted person. Like, I have a rather easy time talking to guys, greeting them, joking etc. but when it come to girls I usually feel at loss because I find it so hard to just walk up to a girl for no reasonable reason and then try to talk (scream because of the high music) for no reason. Sure, I briefly talked to some girls but it didn't turn into something more.
> 
> Also, even if I had a good time I started to question clubs as a way of social interactions; like the eventual relationship you create in a club feel so meaningless and hollow, I don't find it socially satisfying since I can't talk properly to the persons I meet. However, it can still be a good night since I'm dancing, joking around with my friends and meet funny people on the bus on the way home."
> 
> I thought I would share when I have doubts.


I would say you are more ENTP than ESTP based on this info.


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## Diamante (Mar 16, 2016)

@Kitty23 , @Dental Floss Tycoon, @purplegreen and @ghostfire01

Thanks for all of the answers and now to the more awkward part; I did a test and I got ENFJ, it's probably the personality that I have been able to relate to the most of all the types and at least two people that know me said that it does fit me very well and I have to agree. So, I don't think that all of you were wrong when you typed me based on the information but, if I should be honest, It may have been me giving you manipulated information. I dismissed the type before, because of different of reasons but even back then I related heavily but found it too "special" to be my type. 

However, I've been suspecting that I'm an F and not a T; my mother believed that when I first begun doing this. Why does my test show T? Because I think I'm trying to lie to myself and convince myself of the fact that I am a T because If there was something that led to the shitty time I experienced during my teenage it most likely was my F and I think I'm afraid that will happen once more. 

You may argue with me and the result because of the information I gave you above and even if it wasn't lies I manipulated it a little and didn't share some of the information. I'm sorry for wasting your time but believe it or not, this probably helped me realize ENFJ as my type. When I got ENFJ, I read through the cognitive functions and read through the profile it felt like a big rock fell from my shoulders and I was very relieved. 

Thank you for taking your time and I'm sorry for the inconvenience.


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## Dreamer777 (Jan 15, 2011)

Diamante, could you explain why you chose that name, the avatar picture, and the saying "totally indifferent" in the avatar pic?

Just asking cause i would love to hear your answer/interpretation


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## myst91 (Sep 9, 2014)

Diamante said:


> @Kitty23 , @Dental Floss Tycoon, @purplegreen and @ghostfire01
> 
> Thanks for all of the answers and now to the more awkward part; I did a test and I got ENFJ, it's probably the personality that I have been able to relate to the most of all the types and at least two people that know me said that it does fit me very well and I have to agree. So, I don't think that all of you were wrong when you typed me based on the information but, if I should be honest, It may have been me giving you manipulated information. I dismissed the type before, because of different of reasons but even back then I related heavily but found it too "special" to be my type.
> 
> ...


Oh ENxx for sure and I can see the ENxJ (Ni). You provided a lot of information initially that made you sound like a Thinking type but... eh, not necessarily T. Though I would still lean towards T as you were pretty devoid of any strong F here in this thread and I saw signs of Fi. Were you aware of the manipulation consciously btw?


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## Blue Leaf Mark (Feb 10, 2016)

Diamante said:


> @Kitty23 , @Dental Floss Tycoon, @purplegreen and @ghostfire01
> 
> Thanks for all of the answers and now to the more awkward part; I did a test and I got ENFJ, it's probably the personality that I have been able to relate to the most of all the types and at least two people that know me said that it does fit me very well and I have to agree. So, I don't think that all of you were wrong when you typed me based on the information but, if I should be honest, It may have been me giving you manipulated information. I dismissed the type before, because of different of reasons but even back then I related heavily but found it too "special" to be my type.
> 
> ...


It's okay for me, I think. In the beginning, most people want to be an certain type that they're not for some reason or another and they get a bit lost, it was like this for me too. If you feel comfortable with ENFJ, then that's surely your type and I'm glad you've found it. I'm also amazed by your honesty, it's a virtue that's lacking in many people, so you must preserve it.


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## Diamante (Mar 16, 2016)

@Dreamer777

*Name:* I read One Piece and two years ago a character was introduced and his name was Diamante; I thought he could be a cool character so I chose the name for myself, the character was pretty cool but not as cool as I had hoped but by that time I had gotten used to the name and it felt like "my" name and not like the character's name so I kept it. Also, Diamante is the Spanish word for Diamond if I recall correctly, not that it had anything to do with it but I think it's good to know the meaning of the name I've chosen for myself. 

*Avatar:* I like Doctor Manhattan and, to be honest, I'm very fond of Watchmen as a whole; both the movie and the comics. It's intriguing to me because of the rather dark approach he takes on heroes and, that in the end, it's all about the bigger picture; I'm not going to say more to avoid the risk of spoiling but if you haven't seen or read it I recommend that you do. 

Back to Doctor Manhattan: I like how he was a human that turned into something close to a god-like being and how he get more and more detached from humanity as the time goes; it's enjoyable because that's what I would think would happen with most people that get that kind of power and what, realistically, should have happened to Superman. Living your life on earth with, from the human viewpoint, god-like powers would probably warp the mind of most people and if I should be honest I'm pretty sure that kind of power would have changed me in some way; most people would probably not admit that they would change if they got their hands on that kind of power and, a very few, may have managed to deal with it but I'm pretty sure most wouldn't. Since I was a teenager my daydreams or fantasies usually depicted me as a man of power, that was usually the thing most of my daydreams/fantasies had in common. 

*Totally indifferent:* That's how I feel most of the time. Okay, maybe not "indifferent" but I feel empty; I know I'm capable of feelings and I do smile/laugh from time to time during a day but it is as if the feelings are on the surface, never going deeper than my smile. I have a long fuse and I rarely cry; if I cry I do it alone because, since I was a kid, I find it embarrassing and a weakness (exceptions would be funerals because then it's normal to cry) and when I get angry I usually explode. 
@myst91

Yes, I was aware of what I did; I never lied but I may have kept some things from you. I could relate with the ENFJ-portrait however, during yesterday, I've been thinking about ENTJ too. The reason why I picked ENFJ were because of two things;
- I could relate to the portrait. 
- Then I had settled for something, I thought It may be easier to work from there; my choice of MBTI is hardly set in stone, if I feel that another type fit me better than I'm just going to change it. But having something concrete to work with, to improve seemed easier to me. Instead of having to concentrate on picking a type I can simply concentrate on either improving (change/find my true type) or confirm it. 
@ghostfire01

I'm glad you appreciate honesty, it's indeed a virtue. About my ENFJ-pick, see my answer above. 

Everyone​
Everyone reading this thread should know that I'm open to discussion, I'm glad some of you still chose to answer this thread and if you found my pick odd, tell me. I'm here so that you can help me, I will not ignore sound reasoning and/or arguments as to why I should be typed as something else.


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## myst91 (Sep 9, 2014)

Diamante said:


> Yes, I was aware of what I did; I never lied but I may have kept some things from you. I could relate with the ENFJ-portrait however, during yesterday, I've been thinking about ENTJ too. The reason why I picked ENFJ were because of two things;
> - I could relate to the portrait.
> - Then I had settled for something, I thought It may be easier to work from there; my choice of MBTI is hardly set in stone, if I feel that another type fit me better than I'm just going to change it. But having something concrete to work with, to improve seemed easier to me. Instead of having to concentrate on picking a type I can simply concentrate on either improving (change/find my true type) or confirm it.


I don't really like this sort of intentionally misleading tbh. It wastes effort from my part and I suppose it's the same with others too.

Anyway, ENxJ works for you, yes, what did you relate to in Fe? I still lean towards T for you, but this opinion may change still.


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## Blue Leaf Mark (Feb 10, 2016)

Dreamer777 said:


> Well, usually people who get into alot of fist fighting would be heavy Se users mostly, so i think it does help narrow it down some. And ISTP's are well known for fist fights. But i think it's Se when it's alot of fist fighting, Si would be capable but only in a blue moon sometimes or even never especially Feelers with Si, just not a fighting type. You're a Thinker with Si and see how you've never gotten into a fist fight, it's just not the ways of Si really. It is really a Se thing more. That's why i was curious on how his sister fights with him ISFJ is Feeler with dom Si, ISFP is Se BUT Fi dom and Fi doms don't really fist fight, it's jut not a Fi dom thing at all.


I agree with you in that Se-users tend to get into fights more than other types, but I think non Se-users feelers can get into fights too, especially if they're emotionally unstable at the time. For example, my dad, whom is an ESTJ, got into a lot of fights in his teenage years (he even got stabbed one time), even though he avoided them. That's why I think that fighting doesn't necessarily help with typing. I think how much a person enjoys fighting or how much it takes them to get into fights and for what reasons do count, though, but these are just my thoughts.



> So if he has Fi it would be INTJ tert which i don't think he is, or ENTJ Fi inferior. I already wrote on some Fi stuff, as in possible Fi inferior eruptions, and gave some inferior function links, he responded with relating more to ISTP from all of that. He didn't relate to the Fi stuff i wrote, nor the Fi inferior eruptions much.
> 
> And then you mentioned that his emotional hangovers resembles yours which is the way the inferior Fe users have.
> 
> Could an ESTP also feel that way with their tert Fe? At this point i'm thinking he's STP rather than NTJ, but we'll wait and see what he replies further to all this.


I also agree with you here, he doesn't seem to use Fi, although there are some signs of Te, but as you've said, it doesn't seem like he has inferior Fi eruptions.



> In writing style i must say, if it's a long-winded essay, reply, article, etc, i can't stay in tuned with Ti, i end up getting lost. Short spurts are much easier reading Ti for me. Ti is my devilish function, i don't really use it, so i can't keep up with long-winded Ti writings. When things are put in more a bullet point style (and titles overhead underlined even better) i'm able to handle that because of my Te. So is he an articulate Ti who is very organized with the way he writes, or is he a natural Te?


The writing style thing is tricky in that Ti-users can write like Te-users when needed (I don't know if it happens the other way around, but I guess it does). For example, when I'm trying to convey something in the shortest/simplest way possible, then my writing gets more factual, systematic and to the point, much like Te-users seem to write like, but usually I just try to convey all the details in the most accurate way possible, which is my most natural way of writing. I do this with the fewer words possible, though, since I also can't stand people who keep writing without ever going to the point, which is tiring to read.



> Then there's the dom-tert loops that can sometimes help to indicate also. I know hands down i have Fi-Si dom tert loops, so i know it's authentic, i see it in myself that there is truth to the dom-tert loops. In the beginning when i was first learning typology, i could not understand the dom-tert loops. It took me a while and once i did come to understand it, then i realized how true it really is by observing my own self.


Yep, I think the dom-tert loops are very much real, I also have them sometimes.



> We can all get pissed off and say harsh things when upset, but things like the INFP playing the trump card (the Fi doms as Jung explains it as trump card) that is something that will identify the Fi doms. Like there's always little clues in our inferior eruptions as to our type. Fe inferior does have little clues when they get very emotional like you mentioned in emotional hangovers, really sounds very Fe to me.
> 
> INTJ's use Se inferior, so they can also totally get into fights with Se but it's not a big characteristic trait of them to get into much fights, but oh yes sure they can.
> 
> So, every little piece of the puzzle put together when trying to type someone does help, it takes many little pieces to put it together to figure it out. And yes some little pieces can be tossed out along the way as well, but the whole Typology thing is tricky, not just writing style. You have to consider many different variations of clues, human beings are very unique and individual for sure.


You're right in that every piece of the puzzle counts, but when some of them don't fit or don't seem of worth to me, I toss them out. I think this a error in my judgement and I'm willing to review it now, sure. The things is, I think it's worth to focus on the more fitting pieces first, the ones that don't fit come later, if you focus too much on the less fitting ones, then you might ignore the others that may be more fitting.

And we drifted away a bit from the original topic, I think, I don't know if this is gonna be of help for @Diamante, lol.


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## Dreamer777 (Jan 15, 2011)

ghostfire01 said:


> I agree with you in that Se-users tend to get into fights more than other types, but I think non Se-users feelers can get into fights too, especially if they're emotionally unstable at the time. For example, my dad, whom is an ESTJ, got into a lot of fights in his teenage years (he even got stabbed one time), even though he avoided them. That's why I think that fighting doesn't necessarily help with typing. I think how much a person enjoys fighting or how much it takes them to get into fights and for what reasons do count, though, but these are just my thoughts.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


yeah, it's gonna help him. it's just as good to understand how other types are to do a process of elimination as well. 

Plus he is our focus in the conversation, he's the nucleus


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## Diamante (Mar 16, 2016)

@Dreamer777 and @ghostfire01

I was surprised when I saw your many answers but it was an enjoyable read. 

As for my writing style: I've chosen to write like I write because I thought it would be easier for the majority to follow my text if it was structured in a good way. I helped a guy moderating his websites a while back and when I thought I had structured some posts he was all like "You need to structure it better etc."; I'm pretty sure he would test as an ENTJ or ESTJ if he made the text, even though I can't be really sure if he's an extrovert or introvert. 

The fighting: Both of us were two teases, she more than me though I guess and she still is a tease when it comes to our two younger siblings. There where hair-pulling (if she got a hold of my hair I got a hold of hers, it was like a stalemate), she scratched a lot whereas I probably punched more (my forearms where covered in scratches and I can still see small scars where some of the scratches have been) and I guess I usually got more yelled at because if a fight ended it ended with me stopping it. She has always been a tomboy by the way. The more brutal things that have happened is that I've headbutted her once (I was curious if headbutts was a viable option), she kicked me in my face another time (she was on her back in the car and I wanted to punch her, it was cramped and when I tried to make my way there she kicked upwards and hit me straight in my face) and once she pushed me when I had my back against her, I retaliated quickly and kicked her in her flank. I think the last example was one of our last fights, when I kicked her she pretty much fell to the ground screaming and I was terrified that I had hurt her badly so I didn't even care that I was being yelled at by my father; I never planned it to hit her, I just acted as quickly as possible without really thinking about what I did. 

About ISTP vs ESTP: 
- Something both seem to have in common is that they usually isn't very fond of school, I wasn't/isn't and I find it rather boring even if I had/have an easy time in school. 

About school:One thing I can't stand is rereading essays I've done, or reading through tests, I've found myself preferring to pretend to read through what I've written than actually do it, this is stupid I know, because I find it so boring. During my last year in school I wrote a writing-test (you should write an essay about a subject and you had four hours or so) and when I was done I remember that I knew that I only would be able to get the next highest grade and the reason was because I repeated myself to much even though I knew this I didn't correct my errors, even though I had plenty of time left, and then I did go to lunch. Later, when I talked about the teacher, he said that I had gotten the next highest grade and If I hadn't repeated myself so much I would have been able to get an even higher grade. Laziness at it's best. 
- Neither enjoy the though of having a common life, if I got it right and that's pretty much me.

About being an ISTP:
- I can't stand cars, I can enjoy driving fast but I don't enjoy the mechanical aspect about the cars. Maybe this is because I can't tinker with them? Maybe, but I never found the interest in tinkering with cars anyway. 

About inferior Ni:
_"Both ESTPs and ESFPs typically become quieter and more thoughtful when they are in the grip, and this may either precede or alternate with becoming more emotional and/or easily angered. As was the case for Extraverted Feeling types, no positive or negative value seems to be placed on this more introspective stance. Many Extraverted Sensing types who describe becoming “more introverted” convey a sense of wonder and surprise at this change from their usual way of being.

One early sign of an impending inferior function episode is a loss of the easygoing, agreeable character of the Extraverted Sensing type. Although becoming quiet and withdrawn is by far the most frequently mentioned effect, irritability and negativity are also frequently reported. No longer are sensory data accepted indiscriminately at face value. ESTPs and ESFPs often withdraw into themselves, appear to lose contact with their habitual optimism, and appear tired and worried"_

When everything went south many years ago I could relate to the above but that would mean I, more or less, lived in the grip of my inferior Ni for years, because I wen't from always wanting to hang out with my former best friend and when this happened I just didn't want it anymore and I withdrew. I think it was confusing for him because I just stopped wanting to hang out as much as we had before. But I guess it's rather hard for me to estimate too because I've always lived with a good relationship to my family so even when I privately withdrew from friends I always socialized with my family in one way or another. 

Any thoughts about what I just said? It was good to see some examples back there about other types etc, nice to see a little discussion.

EDIT: I should probably add that I relate more to the ISTP-personality than the ESTP-personality. I think my cousin, the person I hung out the most with from age six to ten, is an ESFP or maybe ESTP; he is/was a lot more extroverted than I was. 

I made friends easily but I was in the same class with the same people for seven years, I got some new friends outside of class and they eventually became my closer friends, all of them a year older than me and when our old class split up I ended up with five of the guys in my new class. In the new class I only bonded with one new person, that also became a closer friend later on. 

I talked a lot in class though, either with a friend or myself; talking to myself had became a habit and it was my way to argue about if what I did was correct or not and talking to others because I never found school to be that funny. However, the people I talked to during class as a teenager was usually people I had known for seven years before that. One characteristic I also had, that set me apart from my cousin, was that I enjoyed to read; we had a lot in common the first years but I guess he developed into a more outgoing person, probably with more shallow friendships compared to me who had my inner circle of trusted friends. He also had a different kind of confidence when it came to girls, something I never had. 

I'm thinking if then, like now, needed some time before I could loosen up but when I do I have an easy time talking and joking;I had a friend in an extroverted cousin before I began in school and thus I had someone that knew me well so I really didn't need to learn to know anyone new in the beginning but It developed after time. 

Recalling all of this makes it pretty interesting because it all feel so circumstance-controlled; like would I remember myself as more introverted if my cousin and I wouldn't have happened to get sorted in the same class? 

I remember when sixteen and I, once again, would begin in a new class; I sat silent and didn't go off with someone but despite that a guy approached me and we began to talk. Same the year after, when I switched class again; I was rather silent but a guy approached me and we started to talk. I have no problem talking when people approach me to talk but I have a hard time taking the initiative to talk.


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## Dreamer777 (Jan 15, 2011)

real quick as i just came on to see what's up on this thread but i really don't have time right now so i'll bbl. But i think you are an ISTP, and also when you mentioned that you played lego by yourself for hours as a child that is a very istp trait (i think more for the males too than females maybe?).. i haven't read all you've said i just quickly scanned and i saw you relate to ISTP, my hunch from the start except for a few confusing things was that you were an ISTP but i didn't want to jump the gun and say so, i wanted to be more sure. 

As for your tomboy sister, i want to discuss and learn more about her too, usually tomboy girls are ISTP's?

Laterz.... 

EDIT: Back now and have some time

ok, let me slow down now and really read all what you said here, as i really didn't absorb much because of being in such a hurry and just scanning through quickly...




> _@Dreamer777 and @ghostfire01
> 
> I was surprised when I saw your many answers but it was an enjoyable read._


Yeah, i think you can learn so much more when we all who are trying to help type you can have friendly chatter and debates on types, it gives so much more perspectives.



> _As for my writing style: I've chosen to write like I write because I thought it would be easier for the majority to follow my text if it was structured in a good way. I helped a guy moderating his websites a while back and when I thought I had structured some posts he was all like "You need to structure it better etc."; I'm pretty sure he would test as an ENTJ or ESTJ if he made the text, even though I can't be really sure if he's an extrovert or introvert._


Yeah here it sounds like that was a Te user asking for a Ti user to structure it in the way a Te user could relate to it more. I just wrote an article on cognitive functions so that you can understand more about them, and you will notice the charting style of Te that i use. I'll post that article after this post.



> _The fighting: Both of us were two teases, she more than me though I guess and she still is a tease when it comes to our two younger siblings. There where hair-pulling (if she got a hold of my hair I got a hold of hers, it was like a stalemate), she scratched a lot whereas I probably punched more (my forearms where covered in scratches and I can still see small scars where some of the scratches have been) and I guess I usually got more yelled at because if a fight ended it ended with me stopping it. She has always been a tomboy by the way. The more brutal things that have happened is that I've headbutted her once (I was curious if headbutts was a viable option), she kicked me in my face another time (she was on her back in the car and I wanted to punch her, it was cramped and when I tried to make my way there she kicked upwards and hit me straight in my face) and once she pushed me when I had my back against her, I retaliated quickly and kicked her in her flank. I think the last example was one of our last fights, when I kicked her she pretty much fell to the ground screaming and I was terrified that I had hurt her badly so I didn't even care that I was being yelled at by my father; I never planned it to hit her, I just acted as quickly as possible without really thinking about what I did._


Well that's nice that you cared about possibly hurting her. Shows that you really care about her alot. But geez, you two can sure tackle each other! I was a girly girl, i liked playing with my dolls, etc, so i didn't like to fight at all. But Lord have mercy me and my brother would get into so much heated moments. Most of the time because he would tease me, or sometimes i would ask him too much why questions. i remembered after i told you about that fight, that was in our young teen years btw, this other one was when we were around 8 or 9, we're only one year apart in age, he older than me. And i was outside doing some yard work with a pitch fork and he bothered me i don't remember what he was picking on me that time, but i took the fork and slightly stabbed it into the top of his foot, it made little holes, i didn't go deep just barely, but still, i mean the 2 of us could really cut some shit sometimes! And then he made a big deal to our parents of how i did that to him, but no one would ever be concerned with the crap he tease me and bother me with for me to even reach that point! But he was my Mom's favorite kid, the 2 of them being SP's, and my Dad was only home in the nights from work all day, so i think it's because my Mom would always take his side, and my Dad couldn't comprehend my emotionality and sensitivity over being teased. 

Me and my Mom have had a difficult relationship through the years and still kinda difficult even now. She's ESFP and a Mom who i'm not her favorite, my brother is, it's just me and my brother, but she doesn't like me too much. So often i would feel frustrated too that i had no one to really take up for me, and it's like that even now to this day of my life, none of my family take up for me. My Dad will to a slight point, but he with his ESTJ hard logic ways of course sees me as irrational alot too, but me and my Dad are close, but we will argue and debate heatedly over head logic verses heart logic as i'm a true die hard INFP! We get along for the most part though. I don't get along with my Mom, her shallow socialite and "hypocritical" ways frustrate me, and my deep serious and sensitive introverted ways frustrate her. But there is more than that to it, we have a dysfunctional family and family lineage and she's jealous of the fact that my Dad and i are close. They are divorced btw. Me and my brother could not sit peacefully in the back seat of the car without some scuffle of don't touch me! don't cross the middle line down the back seat! get off of my side! stuff like that. It would make my Dad have to almost pull the car off the road at times to deal with us! But usually when he get mad enough and yell at us, we would quit so he didn't have to pull over. We got alot of belt beatings the two of us. But me and my brother love each other dearly, we just don't get along that well. And i'm a very emotional and he is not emotional nor cares about anyone's emotions. I know he's either ESTP or ISTP as i mentioned previously the reasons i'm just not sure which one?

Your sister sounds really tough-skinned emotionally and physically for a girl, and as you say she's a tomboy, so i would love to jump the gun and say she's ISTP but we can explore more to figure out her type, need some more info on her. What are her interests/hobbies, etc?



> _About ISTP vs ESTP:
> - Something both seem to have in common is that they usually isn't very fond of school, I wasn't/isn't and I find it rather boring even if I had/have an easy time in school._


Let me mention here NO SP's like school, whether SFP or STP. My brother hated school and got alot of D's and F's, he dropped out. I was smart in school and got good grades, and good at math. I think also my brother was jealous of my academic ability because my Dad would make a big deal out of it and my brother was very lazy and my Dad would criticise him alot for that and for his bad grades, so looking back i can see how all that affected him. I really like math the most in school. Geography was pretty cool too. English i couldn't stand, nor history. But i liked to be a good girl so i would study, do my homework and that's how i would get good grades. I always liked to be a good girl and be kind to everyone, respect my teachers, i respected everyone and was liked by everyone. I was friendly, laughed and smiled alot, and i would get in trouble sometimes for giggling too much in class when my friends would deliberately do funny things to get me to giggle and then i would get into trouble, but not much. My teachers all loved me. I was pleasant and courteous and did my work the best i could. I was a happy child. But fight alot with my brother, lol  



> _About school:One thing I can't stand is rereading essays I've done, or reading through tests, I've found myself preferring to pretend to read through what I've written than actually do it, this is stupid I know, because I find it so boring. During my last year in school I wrote a writing-test (you should write an essay about a subject and you had four hours or so) and when I was done I remember that I knew that I only would be able to get the next highest grade and the reason was because I repeated myself to much even though I knew this I didn't correct my errors, even though I had plenty of time left, and then I did go to lunch. Later, when I talked about the teacher, he said that I had gotten the next highest grade and If I hadn't repeated myself so much I would have been able to get an even higher grade. Laziness at it's best.
> - Neither enjoy the though of having a common life, if I got it right and that's pretty much me._


Well, i could say this sounds ISTP but i could also say it sounds SP on a whole.



> _About being an ISTP:
> - I can't stand cars, I can enjoy driving fast but I don't enjoy the mechanical aspect about the cars. Maybe this is because I can't tinker with them? Maybe, but I never found the interest in tinkering with cars anyway._


_ 

See this sounds somewhat like my brother. i think when he was a teen and doing some tinkering was because all his guy friends around him in the neighborhood were all tinkering with their "race cars" so he had bought also a 70's mustang or something, you know back then it was the 70's, so maybe 60's mustang and that was the in thing at that time and the gto's, but he was trying to fix it up for racing too, but i think he would get overly frustrated because he really didn't want to really do mechanics but was just keeping up with his guy friends at that time. I think that's why he would have such a short fuse with me when i would ask him things like what he was doing and why, etc, he would hate me for that! I still can't figure out if he's ISTP or ESTP, i'm really mystified with him with that, but if i had to choose, i think i would choose ISTP over ESTP for him, but barely. He does like pickup trucks and owns one. He also goes to the gym every evening for all his adult life never stopping or taking time off, never. He's very consistent with going to the gym. And he's very consistent with waking up early and going to his self-employed sales job. (His job is by the beach though and outdoors mostly - to do with beach/sea tours with tourists.) 




About inferior Ni:
"Both ESTPs and ESFPs typically become quieter and more thoughtful when they are in the grip, and this may either precede or alternate with becoming more emotional and/or easily angered. As was the case for Extraverted Feeling types, no positive or negative value seems to be placed on this more introspective stance. Many Extraverted Sensing types who describe becoming “more introverted” convey a sense of wonder and surprise at this change from their usual way of being.

One early sign of an impending inferior function episode is a loss of the easygoing, agreeable character of the Extraverted Sensing type. Although becoming quiet and withdrawn is by far the most frequently mentioned effect, irritability and negativity are also frequently reported. No longer are sensory data accepted indiscriminately at face value. ESTPs and ESFPs often withdraw into themselves, appear to lose contact with their habitual optimism, and appear tired and worried"

Click to expand...





When everything went south many years ago I could relate to the above but that would mean I, more or less, lived in the grip of my inferior Ni for years, because I wen't from always wanting to hang out with my former best friend and when this happened I just didn't want it anymore and I withdrew. I think it was confusing for him because I just stopped wanting to hang out as much as we had before. But I guess it's rather hard for me to estimate too because I've always lived with a good relationship to my family so even when I privately withdrew from friends I always socialized with my family in one way or another. 

Any thoughts about what I just said?

Click to expand...

Yes, here's my thoughts on it. Every human being no matter type gets bummed over the breakup/breakdown of a private intimate relationship, no one is immune from feeling terrible over that. So i think you may be mixing up the inferior Ni of ESxP's with the norm of everyone feeling bad over a break up, and even more so if you're an ISTP because ISTP's are really a bit handicap when it comes to trying to understand and relate to emotions and it confuses them alot. Then they feel that they are not good enough and maybe never will be good enough and maybe always feel alone and isolated. Stuff like that. But also every relationship type suffers after a break up. 

Maybe try to find a different example of inferior function eruption rather than over a breakup. Ni inferior eruption sees alot of dark gloom and doom patterns that are not reality, my Mom gets that sometimes and it drives me mad even though i may not say much to her about it. I try to just say things to comfort her but sometimes i do say things like that is just crazy and ridiculous and give my reasons why i think so.

Also to get out of inferior grips and dom-tert loops you have to engage your aux function actively and this can help to get you out of those grips/loops. That's another thing to figure out by, what is your aux function? What can you actively engage in that gets you feeling better for the long run?




It was good to see some examples back there about other types etc, nice to see a little discussion.

Click to expand...

The more you learn of different types and different cognitive function stacks etc, the more you will understand your own type and other's types too. It's all very useful and helpful info. 




EDIT: I should probably add that I relate more to the ISTP-personality than the ESTP-personality. I think my cousin, the person I hung out the most with from age six to ten, is an ESFP or maybe ESTP; he is/was a lot more extroverted than I was.

Click to expand...

I think you just confirmed here that you are an introvert!




I made friends easily but I was in the same class with the same people for seven years, I got some new friends outside of class and they eventually became my closer friends, all of them a year older than me and when our old class split up I ended up with five of the guys in my new class. In the new class I only bonded with one new person, that also became a closer friend later on. 

I talked a lot in class though, either with a friend or myself; talking to myself had became a habit and it was my way to argue about if what I did was correct or not and talking to others because I never found school to be that funny. However, the people I talked to during class as a teenager was usually people I had known for seven years before that. One characteristic I also had, that set me apart from my cousin, was that I enjoyed to read; we had a lot in common the first years but I guess he developed into a more outgoing person, probably with more shallow friendships compared to me who had my inner circle of trusted friends. He also had a different kind of confidence when it came to girls, something I never had. 

I'm thinking if then, like now, needed some time before I could loosen up but when I do I have an easy time talking and joking;I had a friend in an extroverted cousin before I began in school and thus I had someone that knew me well so I really didn't need to learn to know anyone new in the beginning but It developed after time. 

Recalling all of this makes it pretty interesting because it all feel so circumstance-controlled; like would I remember myself as more introverted if my cousin and I wouldn't have happened to get sorted in the same class? 

I remember when sixteen and I, once again, would begin in a new class; I sat silent and didn't go off with someone but despite that a guy approached me and we began to talk. Same the year after, when I switched class again; I was rather silent but a guy approached me and we started to talk. I have no problem talking when people approach me to talk but I have a hard time taking the initiative to talk.

Click to expand...

I think it could very well be your extroverted cousin that helped you along to be social. I think this all sounds like an introvert with inferior Fe like the ISTP's. ESTP's are very outgoing.

ISTP's are also very good with telling jokes and making people laugh, that's another characteristic trademark of ISTP's.

I think da jury is in, me thinks u r ISTP! :happy:

Ok, i'm going to post the cog functions article i just wrote after this. I'm going to post it with a forward note about me as an INFP writing it, as INFP's get too much of a bad rap for being irrational and dumb. So i know my note is kind of like a venting from an INFP, but it's important to me to put it in there. It's not against you, it's just that sometimes i do get into tangos on this what's my type forum with others (T's especially) who are also helping to type people, so i decided to "big-up" the INFP's and show we are very smart people just in a different way! You'll see what i mean when you read it. _


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## Dreamer777 (Jan 15, 2011)

Sorry Diamante, i can't post it tonight, i realized after copying and pasting it over to here from my docs that all the bolding is gone, and the article needs the bold lettering in many parts to make it a strong and clear article, headers and charting, so it's too late now, gotta go get sleep, tomorrow i'll copy it over and re-bold all the bolding that gets lost copying it over. It's quite a bit and it's late and i'm too tired now to deal with it, i just don't have the steam to do it now. So just hang in there and i'll have it posted for you tomorrow. Chow Chow :happy:


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## Diamante (Mar 16, 2016)

@Dreamer777

It was funny to see another type of sibling-dynamic and you say ISTP and that may be true. 

- Part of post terminated -


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## Diamante (Mar 16, 2016)

- Post Terminated -


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## myst91 (Sep 9, 2014)

Diamante said:


> Because then they deserve the money in a different sense because it isn't always useful; some of them make stars out of soda cans and even if it isn't useful it's still a craft. They did something, they sell it, they earn the money and thus they deserve it in another sense; I have more respect for those beggars than those who do nothing.
> 
> And when we talk about respect, people who claim that I have to respect them will immediately loose my respect. Respect isn't simply given, it's earned.


OK. Um, I didn't read all the new posts but where you get sensitive in a weird way... I think points to inferior Fi. I'm ok with ENTJ for you and I don't think I'll be able to add more input in future. If your self-understanding is not good enough - which is what I suspect because of how many random bits of your memories you are putting in here - then it's pointless for me to speculate. I hope over time you'll figure out more about yourself and how that fits into this system (and how it doesn't). Good luck!

(I'll add a couple more comments below but with the typing process itself I am really finished with, sorry.)




Dreamer777 said:


> @Diamante
> 
> ok, something stood out here for me:
> 
> ...


Uh for real, these stupid stereotypes. Fights and playing lego do not make a type.




> So, every little piece of the puzzle put together when trying to type someone does help, it takes many little pieces to put it together to figure it out. And yes some little pieces can be tossed out along the way as well, but the whole Typology thing is tricky, not just writing style. You have to consider many different variations of clues, human beings are very unique and individual for sure.


If you only work with little pieces and not general trends, you'll be prone to cherrypicking.




> Okay, I may be completely off here, but as I've understood it Introverted Sensing is pretty much about having an excessive memory among other things and being able to store to use it for future reference. I'm not sure if that's an Si-thing, or if it's just a sign of good memory, but I remember a lot of things very easily.


Nope, god, no. Not Si. Memory is part of every function. 




> Extroverted Intuition ​
> Okay, so I used the Socionic-page to use as a reference for this.


That's not MBTI... these systems are not fully consistent with each other so don't bother with mixing them freely like this. Unless the parts you compare are compatible, really really don't bother.


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## Diamante (Mar 16, 2016)

@myst91



> OK. Um, I didn't read all the new posts but where you get sensitive in a weird way... I think points to inferior Fi. I'm ok with ENTJ for you and I don't think I'll be able to add more input in future. If your self-understanding is not good enough - which is what I suspect because of how many random bits of your memories you are putting in here - then it's pointless for me to speculate. I hope over time you'll figure out more about yourself and how that fits into this system (and how it doesn't). Good luck!


Okay, you think ENTJ would work for me and I do agree that it can work, that it may be possible. I also agree that my self-understanding may be crappy BUT that's also the reason why I'm here; to understand myself better. If I would have better self-understanding this whole MBTI-affair would have been finished a long time ago and I wouldn't turn to others for help and thus I wouldn't be on this forum; If I can do something myself I never turn to others to help me. 

However, I do understand that you may be tired because it seems like I tire most people I talk to because I want answers as to why I am a certain type and I want it to be correct so even if I may find the right answer I may keep looking until I'm 100% I am certain type. That's probably one of my many characteristics that may be tiresome to people. 

If I should sum my personality up real quick and only consider how I am at the moment: Intelligent, thorough, confident in my abilities (when it comes to certain things), I'm not an emotional person (unless I get, as you so nicely stated, weirdly emotional ), I'm charming, I have an easy time reading people, I want something more than an ordinary life, I tell people (like my sisters) what to do and I can't stand lazy people doing poor jobs. I almost always say "yes" when my job requests me to work, even if I don't like my workplace I want to do a good job, I'm a social person (partly) but I dislike shallow meetings; like partying, it could be fun sure, but it's not stimulating me on an intellectual level but knowing by experience I have realized it's better to drink and become one of the monkeys instead of staying sober watching the monkeys having fun. 

My latest ex thought I was a nice boyfriend but she also thought I had some shortcomings: like always wanting to be right, sometimes a bad listener if I did something else that interested me in the same time and the fact that I made her feel incompetent (I think she said that) because of my constant proving-her-wrong. She also found me insensitive from time to time. I am a competitive person, although I choose my battles. Natural leader (according to some people), a serene demeanor. I enjoy strategy games a lot and I've played them since I was a kid and I hate to play against slow players because I find it hard to think that people need so much time to make a move whereas I usually plan two or three rounds ahead; however, my fast playing style is also a weakness because sometimes I'm so certain I have made the right move that I overlook simple mistakes I've made. I take pride in my abilities although, despite the confidence I have in my abilities , I also have insecurities; but I guess most people do. 

I like to think that I'm efficient and I plan my work so I have to do as little work as possible each day but instead I do it over a long time. I completely hate when people think they can manipulate me. I usually find feelings a weakness because it clouds your judgement; if there is a risk that feelings is going to cloud my judgement I usually relax doing something until I can approach the subject objectively. I rather don't answer the thread/subject than giving a subjective answer. I like to think I know my strength and weaknesses well, I also don't like to depend on people; although sometimes I have to and If I do I'm afraid that they may be incompetent. I have no problem with group projects if the people I'm working with is at the same standard as I, or better even though I prefer to be the superior one. I find loyalty an admirable trait. I probably have a pretty strong will, I usually control my feelings more than they control me; exception may be when really angered or when I fall in love. If I fall in love and it isn't mutual I may turn into a wreck for a certain period of time (maybe that's Fi?) but despite this I usually don't need more than a day when I have broken up with an ex to bounce back. 

I like to be in control. I also enjoy discussion and sound-boarding. If there is some thing I desire it is fame, not necessarily money. My brain doesn't like the thought of a god because it's irrational, however, my heart (not the muscle) hope there is a heaven; if there is I can't say for certain that I would have been welcomed there though. I also can't stand failure. 

Fun facts: I would probably put me as a Slytherclaw or Ravenrin (if you've read Harry Potter. ), just a funny thing to mention. Apparently I'm also insensitive when watching movies, a guy said I was weird when I started to laugh during a serious-scenario because of how the villain presented his threat. Also, since I was a kid I've often enjoyed the villain more than the hero and I guess that you would find more villains or anti-heroes as my favorite characters rather than the heroes themselves. 

I guess that's how my personality would look if I summed it up really quickly, do what you like with the information; I hate the thought of loosing audience and/or someone to discuss with, so hopefully you can do something with my summary. Also, if I come off as aggressive in my post I ain't; I just tried to be as efficient as possible and explain why I'm here. You don't need to answer, which is rather self explanatory, but I chose to mention you again so that you could see the new information and after that you can choose if you want to stay or not. 

If you choose to leave, thanks for your suggestions; your help and time have been much appreciated.


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## Diamante (Mar 16, 2016)

I'm probably going to type myself ExTJ for now, I'm actually leaning towards ENTJ though.


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## myst91 (Sep 9, 2014)

Diamante said:


> If I should sum my personality up real quick and only consider how I am at the moment (...)


ExTJ. (edit: I only see your new post now, heh, we're on the same page)




> I guess that's how my personality would look if I summed it up really quickly, do what you like with the information; I hate the thought of loosing audience and/or someone to discuss with, so hopefully you can do something with my summary. Also, if I come off as aggressive in my post I ain't; I just tried to be as efficient as possible and explain why I'm here. You don't to answer, which is rather self explanatory, but I chose to mention you again so that you could see the new information and after that you can choose if you want to stay or not.
> 
> If you choose to leave, thanks for your suggestions; your help and time have been much appreciated.


No worries.


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## Dreamer777 (Jan 15, 2011)

myst91 said:


> OK. Um, I didn't read all the new posts but where you get sensitive in a weird way... I think points to inferior Fi. I'm ok with ENTJ for you and I don't think I'll be able to add more input in future. If your self-understanding is not good enough - which is what I suspect because of how many random bits of your memories you are putting in here - then it's pointless for me to speculate. I hope over time you'll figure out more about yourself and how that fits into this system (and how it doesn't). Good luck!
> 
> (I'll add a couple more comments below but with the typing process itself I am really finished with, sorry.)
> 
> ...


You know what bugs me alot? When people try to type other people and can't even type their own self from Sep 2014 til now March 2016 and then ridicules someone else who is trying to type who knows their own type? @myst91

So weird, so strange?

Where is the credibility of Typology when you can't even type your own self for so long?

I did say ENTJ alot in the beginning was my first posted guess. But then he spoke of other things that start made him looking more like ISTP or ESTP. I did mention in the beginning too that ENTJ's get into fist fights as well. Why can't i have a conversation with people on here trying to help type them without being in a mad rush without a T person jumping all over me? A memo to all T's: F has it's own type of logic system, we process in a different way than T's. INFP's are known for being creative in their intellect and for helping people find clarity and understanding. I'm not in a race with anyone on here to have a mad rush to type anyone. I'm chatting with the person and taking my time to find out more about them and share more things with them. I'm about to post a very enlightening article for Diamante. It will help him much more to understand Typology. I like to play with life and have fun, when the fun is being taken out of it, then it's a waste of my life. I'm here to have fun but with much knowledge and understanding of Typology.

I understand enough of Typology to know that there is no one who is a perfect typist. And there are many ways of gathering lots of different info from someone to piece the puzzle together. So with my Fi dom Ne aux brain patterns, what i can pick up in them is sometimes only what a dom Fi aux Ne is able to pick up. Don't judge me? I don't bother you, i let you type whatever way you want, and you're not always right and besides you dont' know your own type? 


Now with his last post he does seem ENTJ. His info has swung from being introverted to leadership and ways of an ENTJ. 

I'm fine with whatever type he truly is, and i will continue to help him also. I'm about to post the article i charted for Cognitive Functions. That will help him alot to understand even better so he can even see more clearly what his type he is. It is he who needs to be comfortable with what he thinks is his type. My job is to converse with him, making him speak about himself, etc and chatting til he either feels he has found his type or he decides to not want to decide yet. I'm cool with that, but i'm here to help. And i don' t think it is morally or ethically right for you to try to cut down my ways of helping him, when clearly you don't know it all or you would know your own type. The proof is in the pudding.

So why don't you have a type? What's going on with that since you seem to know so much about Typology to the point of trying to belittle my ways of gathering and processing? My guesses to types are mostly accurate with not much inaccuracy. So the proof is in the pudding. My Fi working with my Ne is what you don't understand about how those patterns work for an INFP. You are discrediting my ways of typing and gathering information because you don't gather and process the way i do. 

You will never understand how dom Fi works with aux Ne with it's patterns. All 16 types have worthy contributions and skills to bring to the table. You are only one of 16 types, just as i am only one of 16 types. 

Since you know it all, what is your own type? Why do you have it as "unknown"? Unknown means you don't know. Why don't you know? 1 1/2 years and you still don't know? That does not show me much knowledge and understanding of Typology. That is very confusing?

One thing i notice with people who want to belittle me on this what's my type forum, is that they never point to all the things that they know what' i'm saying is right, they will only pick out a few things that they decide is not right, i'm not in agreement with you on what you've picked out. Do you think that just because you said it means i'm going to believe it? You're not God. And besides, you can't even type your ownself or agree with being a certain type.

I have an inclination as to your type. Why don't you?


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## Dreamer777 (Jan 15, 2011)

@Diamante

before tonight is through i will get that article copied over to re-bold it, it will take me time to do. I came on to do it but ended up having to put energy into standing up for myself to myst91.

bbl to post the article. When i come back to post, i will not read anything else posted so as to not get distracted and waste my time, i'll jump straight to the thread reply box and work on posting it. Afterwards then i'll read any new posts.

Soon to come my dear, real soon...promise.


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## myst91 (Sep 9, 2014)

Dreamer777 said:


> You know what bugs me alot? When people try to type other people and can't even type their own self from Sep 2014 til now March 2016 and then ridicules someone else who is trying to type who knows their own type? @myst91
> 
> So weird, so strange? (...)


Wow what a wall of text of overreaction from your part.

Nowhere was I ridiculing you in any personal way. I was using the same style with OP in the same post, not personal either.

My MBTI type depends on which interpretation of MBTI we use. In official MBTI dichotomies this will differ from some of the unofficial JCF approaches but will match other JCF approaches. 




> I did say ENTJ alot in the beginning was my first posted guess. But then he spoke of other things that start made him looking more like ISTP or ESTP.


Again, general trends > bits of info.




> And i don' t think it is morally or ethically right for you to try to cut down my ways of helping him


It has nothing to do with ethical codes. This is simply logic about what's correct and what is not. Don't take it so personally.




> You will never understand how dom Fi works with aux Ne with it's patterns.


Lol arrogant lofty assumptions, aren't they.

Tbh I'm not gonna bother to engage with the rest of your ridiculous assumptions. Not worth it. Not worth getting more personal either.




> I have an inclination as to your type. Why don't you?


Lol since you kept repeating this irrelevant point, now I got curious, what do you think my type is? :tongue:


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## Dreamer777 (Jan 15, 2011)

*16 MBTI PERSONALITY TYPES – 8 COGNITIVE FUNCTIONS STACKING ORDER & FUNCTION GROUPINGS & FUNCTION ROLLS WITHIN THE STACK*

(This article does not explain an in depth description meaning of each of the cognitive functions, there are numerous sites with various explanations, there is no perfect explanation from any one source, so you need to read around different explanations from different sources to get a fuller understanding of the individual in depth descriptions.)


_Written and charted by an INFP with inferior Te, but still a Te user, not a Ti user. Charting is a Te function just so you know and can see how Te works in a person. INFP’s are known for explaining things in simple ways that people can understand clearly and easily. Unfortunately INFP’s get a bad rap as to being irrational and illogical because of their eccentric ways they go about learning, researching, reaching conclusions, teaching, and our heartfelt deep emotions and sometimes emotional outbursts. INFP’s brains automatically put patterns together with Ne using Fi through how things impress on them through their feelings and value system. INFP’s are not dumb. INFP’s are childlike and see life through rose-colored lenses, simple and playful, thoughtful and intuitive, sensitive and caring, dumb they are NOT. Just thought I should acknowledge and honor the INFP’s because we get accused far too much of being irrational and dumb. 

*All of this article is written from my memory with absolutely no having to refer to any pages or other articles. This stuff is stored up in my memory from past researches in the last few years, I know it by heart now.* Dumb or irrational INFP? I think not! We take complex things and break it down into simple things people can easily understand, it’s a skill of an INFP to do that. We want our world to be warm, loving, kind, helpful, wise and harmonious. We are harmony seekers and humanitarians. 

~Enjoy my years of research and learning written to you on a short article so you can easily learn and understand quickly, wish someone did it for me when I was trying to learn, but no one did, everything was long and drawn out over time searching around on many different sites and articles, here’s a simple crash course for you~ Cheers! :happy:

Remember, each personality type has their own set of skills that are all important to our human race. No one is better than no one. We just have different skills. That’s why there is the 16 different types, because we have different skills. And also different weaknesses. For there to be a skill in one thing, has to have an opposing weakness in something else. If we all had the same skills, the human race would die out. We are humans, not robots. No man is an island, we all need each other’s skills to survive. 

Yours Truly, 
Dreamer777
Bohemian INFP :happy:

PS: It does take great effort for an INFP (inferior Te) to construct this kind of research article summary. I prefer to just chat casually to people and bring up these points along the way. But I know how much it helps for them to be able to read all of this upfront to learn quick and easy, so I put in the effort to write this article. My Fi dom with Ne aux prefers to playfully have conversation and let things roll along and bring things up here and there, but there are times it’s important to just give the whole view in an article for the person to read through. It does take a lot of discipline, time and effort for me as an INFP though. It’s soooo structured and final! Strong Ne doesn’t like final! It’s open-ended! And strong Fi likes to feel and play along. But the INFP’s do have a strong ability to explain complex things in easy and clear ways, they are known for that. Things they themselves understand of course. Can’t explain something we don’t understand! 

“Like Frankie said: I did it my way!” Bon Jovi:happy:_
____________________________________________________________________________________


*4 GROUPS OF 4 EACH (4X4=16) THAT USE THE SAME 4 COGNITIVE FUNCTIONS*


*Cognitive Function Stack Order & Abbreviations:*

dom – dominant function – 1st & Strong
aux – auxiliary function - 2nd & Moderate
tert – tertiary function – 3rd & Weak
inferior - inferior function – 4th & Very Weak


*INFERIOR FUNCTION ERUPTIONS, HIDDEN TYPE, & DOM-TERT LOOPS*


When in an *inferior function eruption* (momentarily/temporary stress eruption that causes the inferior function to be strongly challenged) the stack order reverses to the opposite and the inferior becomes the dom and the dom becomes the inferior.

The person becomes like their *hidden type* but in an immature/amateur way of that type. The hidden type has all of the same functions in their function stack but in the *reverse order*. So for example an ESFJ Fe Si Ne Ti becomes like an INTP Ti Ne Si Fe but in an immature/amateur way. 

dom – dominant function – 1st & Strong – *becomes 4th & Very Weak*
aux – auxiliary function - 2nd & Moderate – *becomes 3rd & Weak*
tert – tertiary function – 3rd & Weak – *becomes 2nd & Moderate*
inferior - inferior function – 4th & Very Weak – *becomes 1st & Strong*


The *dom-tert loop* is a prolonged period (not just a momentarily/temporary eruption) of an inferior function stress eruption. An introvert cannot be extroverted for a prolonged period nor use prolonged use of their inferior function as a dominant function, and same for the extrovert. So rather than being able to stay in reverse order of the hidden personality for prolonged periods of stress, the introvert then switches to the dom-tert loop of the other introvert belonging to the same cognitive function group as they share the same dom-tert functions in opposite orders. There are 4 types in a group – 2 introverts, 2 extroverts who share the same 4 cognitive functions in their function stack in different stacking orders. And there are 4 groups of these 4 types: 4x4=16 personality types total. So when the introvert switches to dom-tert loop they can somewhat resemble the other introvert’s type in their group, and same goes for the extroverts in a group switching to the other extrovert’s dom-tert loop and resembling them.

*(Please note: the group # is randomly selected and doesn’t mean anything in the order it’s charted other than just creating 4 groups)*

*GROUP 1*

*STJ & NFP - Te/Fi + Si/Ne – ESTJ / ISTJ & ENFP / INFP* 

ESTJ – Te Si Ne Fi
ENFP – Ne Fi Te Si
ISTJ – Si Te Fi Ne
INFP – Fi Ne Si Te

- ESTJ / INFP - inferior eruption – share reversed hidden types of each other - dom /inferior flipped around - Te to Fi / Fi toTe
- ENFP / ISTJ - “ “Ne to Si / Si to Ne 

- ESTJ / ENFP - share same dom-tert loop - Te-Ne / Ne-Te
- ISTJ / INFP “ “ “ Fi-Si / Si-Fi


*GROUP 2*

*STP & NFJ – Ti/Fe + Se/Ni - ESTP / ISTP & ENFJ / INFJ*

ESTP – Se Ni Fe Ti
ENFJ – Fe Ni Se Ti
ISTP – Ti Se Ni Fe
INFJ – Ni Fe Ti Se

ESTP / INFJ - inferior eruption – share reversed hidden types of each other - dom /inferior flipped around – Se to Ni / Ni to Se
ISTP / ENFJ - “ “ Ti to Fe / Fe to Ti

ESTP / ENFJ – share same dom-tert loop – Se-Fe / Fe-Se
ISTP / INFJ - “ “ - Ti-Ni / Ni-Ti


*GROUP 3*

*SFJ & NTP - Ti/Fe + Si/Ne – ENTP / INTP & ESFJ / ISFJ*

ESFJ – Fe Si Ne Ti
ENTP – Ne Ti Fe Si
ISFJ – Si Fe Ti Ne
INTP – Ti Ne Si Fe

ESFJ / INTP - inferior eruption – share reversed hidden types of each other - dom /inferior flipped around – Fe to Ti / Ti to Fe
ISFJ / ENTP - “ “ Si to Ne / Ne to Si

ESFJ / ENTP – share same dom-tert loop – Fe-Ne / Ne-Fe
ISFJ / INTP - “ “ - Si-Ti / Ti-Si


*GROUP 4*

*SFP & NTJ - Te/Fi + Se/Ni - ENTJ / INTJ & ESFP / ISFP*

ESFP – Se Fi Te Ni
ENTJ – Te Ni Se Fi
ISFP – Fi Se Ni Te
INTJ – Ni Te Fi Se

ESFP / INTJ - inferior eruption – share reversed hidden types of each other - dom /inferior flipped around – Se to Ni / Ni to Se
ISFP / ENTJ - “ “ Fi to Te / Te to Fi

ESFP / ENTJ – share same dom-tert loop – Se-Te / Te-Se
ISFP / INTJ - “ “ - Fi-Ni / Ni-Fi

____________________________________________________________________________________


*SPEEDY WAYS TO FIGURE OUT HIDDEN/REVERSE TYPES AND DOM-TERT LOOPS TYPES*

Another way to quickly figure out the hidden type and dom-tert type of a person’s type – that you already know their type but have forgotten the different cognitive functions of each type, or just want a speedy result:

For the hidden reverse type - every MBTI letter is opposite: ESTJ / INFP (extroverts turn introverted / introverts turn extroverted)

For the dom-tert loop type - the first letter is the same (introverts remain introverted / extroverts remain extroverted) and the last 3 letters are opposite: ESTJ / ENFP

____________________________________________________________________________________


*Using Aux function to get out of inferior eruption grips and dom-tert loops:*

To get out of inferior grips and dom-tert loops a person must engage in an activity that activates their aux function whether mentally or physically. That's another clue to figure out a personality type by, what is the person’s aux function? What mental or physical activity can the person engage in to feel better for the long run? I say long run, as in not an activity like illicit sex, drug or alcohol use/abuse, stealing, gambling, violence, unhealthy stuff or criminal stuff, etc. Not an activity that is destructive in the long run, but rather an activity that doesn’t leave the person feeling ashamed or destroyed. Something to make the person’s life better.

____________________________________________________________________________________


*Shadow Functions & The Devilish/Demonic (8th) Function – Shadow of the Inferior Function*

The Shadow functions are the opposite of extrovert verses introvert of each our 4 cognitive functions in the same category of T or F or S or N. Example: Ti dom has Te shadow, Te dom has Ti shadow, Se aux has Si shadow, Si aux has Se shadow etc. Sometimes referred to as the 5th, 6th, 7th & 8th function, the 8th being the devilish/demonic function as it is the shadow of our inferior function and it is really not used nor understood by the person as to what it really means. Shadows are very weak functions and are overridden most of the times by our main 4 functions, so we don’t hardly use shadow functions. But the 8th devilish/demonic function we don’t use nor understand. The devilish function is of the same intro or extro and same category of judging or perceiving of our dom, so they are in complete opposition with each other and cannot be used together. Kind of like trying to make 2 magnets stick together, they push each other away – resist each other. And the dom rules so it wipes out the devilish function – the shadow of the inferior function. 

So that’s another way to figure out someone’s type also is by seeing which of the 8 cognitive functions they relate to the least and don’t really understand it’s meaning. An ISTP Ti dom, would have Fi as devilish. They don’t understand nor relate to Fi. An INFP Fi dom has Ti as devilish, they don’t understand nor relate to Ti. The devilish: Se would have Ne, Si would have Ni, Te would have Fe, Ni would have Si as devilish, etc. 

The introverted judging dom function wipes out the other introverted judging function. The extroverted judging dom function wipes out the other extroverted judging function. The introverted perceiving dom function wipes out the other introverted perceiving function. The extroverted perceiving dom function wipes out the other extroverted perceiving function.

Example of shadow functions to the function stack order:

Ni Te Fi Se Main function stack 1,2,3,4
Ne Ti Fe Si Shadow functions 5,6,7,8

Ni dom wipes out devilish Si. The oppose and resist each other and the dom rules, so the devilish – the shadow of inferior function - is wiped out because it is up against the dom ruler of the pack. The shadows of the dom, aux and tert are used but rarely and weakly. But the shadow of inferior is null and void, it opposes the DOM King, the Ruler of the function stack. A King doesn’t let another King rule his Kingdom!  

____________________________________________________________________________________



*For a basic look at function stack orders: (intro and extro are just abbreviations for introverted and extroverted.)*

Intro functions activate automatically through stored memory, extro functions activate on external stimuli/sources. A person who is an introvert has an intro function as number 1 and dom at the beginning of their function stack. Same for extroverts have an extroverted function as number 1 and dom at the beginning of their function stack. That first and dom function depicts whether the person is an introvert type or an extrovert type.

Each person has 2 intro functions and 2 extro functions in their function stack.
2 are *perceiving*functions (S & N – Sensing (5 senses) and Intuiting (6th sense); and 2 are *judging* functions (T & F – Thinking (mind logic) and Feeling (heart logic).

The functions in *dom and aux are the ruling functions* of the person and they rule and depict the order of the function stack and what personality type is the person. Every other function comes automatically from the dom and aux and their order.

The dom is opposite to the inferior as in intro verses extro, but are both judging (T and F) or both are perceiving functions (S and N). T doms have F inferior, F doms have T inferior, S doms have N inferior, N doms have S inferior, but all in the opposite of intro verses extro. So Se dom = Ni inferior, Fe dom = Ti inferior, etc. Everyone has a T, F, S,and N in their function stack.

In the 16 MBTI Personality Types, there are 2 of the same of each dom/inferior types, and 8 different categories of dom/inferior types. 2x8=16 personality types. 8 introvert types, 8 extrovert types. 2 introvert types share same dom and inferior, 2 extrovert types share same dom and inferior. (Also 4 types are introverted judging doms (2 Ti, 2 Fi), 4 are extroverted judging doms (2 Te, 2 Fe), 4 are introverted perceiving doms (2 Si, 2 Ni, and 4 are extroverted perceiving doms (2 Se, 2 Ne).

The aux and tert are opposite to each other in the intro/extro order as well, but also remains in their own category of judging (T and F) or perceiving (S and N). So when the dom and inferior are judging functions, then the aux and tert are perceiving functions of the opposite. Si/Ne, or Se/Ni for perceiving. Ti/Fe, or Fe/Ti for judging.


_PLEASE NOTE: The chart below shows T in bold letters up to their dom and aux function only. This will make it more easy to see more easily how important the dom and aux is as ruler of the function stack and depicting the type of the person. And also to separate the F’s from the T’s for easier reading and clarity. Otherwise I would have to use different colors to give both T and F groups highlights up to dom and aux, but I chose to keep this article in black print only._

*EXTROVERTS (4 T’s / 4 F’s)*

*ESTJ Te Si* Ne Fi
*ENTJ Te Ni* Se Fi

ESFJ Fe Si Ne Ti
ENFJ Fe Ni Se Ti

*ESTP Se Ti* Fe Ni
ESFP Se Fi Te Ni

*ENTP Ne Ti* Fe Si
ENFP Ne Fi Te Si

*INTROVERTS (4 T’s / 4 F’s)*

*ISTJ Si Te* Fi Ne
ISFJ Si Fe Ti Ne

*INTJ Ni Te* Fi Se
INFJ Ni Fe Ti Se

*ISTP Ti Se* Ni Fe
*INTP Ti Ne* Si Fe

ISFP Fi Se Ni Te
INFP Fi Ne Si Te

____________________________________________________________________________________

EDIT:

The last part i just deleted here about *Pi and Pe, Ji and Je verses xxxJ and xxxP*. This was a quick add on late last night when i was tired when i was copying the article over from my docs and working on it with re-bolding and re-underlining as it gets wiped out from the copying over to this typing box here on Per C, so i was tired and did write this add on incorrectly in a hurry. I realized this morning when i woke up that i had written it incorrectly so then deleted it, and later on i will re-write it when i have time, so please disregard what you read in this last part that is now deleted if you have already read it before i deleted it.

It is different for INTROVERTS vs EXTROVERTS.

_______________

NEW EDIT:

Here is the Rewriting/Reconstructing of the P & J Part:

*xxxJ types verses xxxP types – J verses P: verses Judging & Perceiving types*

This always creates confusion when first learning about Typology. Let’s break it down:

*THE MEANING OF Pe, Pi, Je, Ji*

*Pe* type – an EXTROVERT – Dom function is a *Perceiving extroverted* function.
*Je* type – “ “ “ “ *Judging extroverted* function. 
*Pe types = Se doms or Ne doms / Je types = Te doms or Fe doms.*

*Pi* type – an INTROVERT – Dom function is a *Perceiving introverted* function.
*Ji* type – “ “ “ “ *Judging introverted* function. 
*Pi types = Si doms or Ni doms. Ji types = Ti doms or Fi doms.*


*Why does MBTI say xxxJ for an INTROVERTED person* when all IxxJ’s (Ni doms & Si doms) have a Perceiving dom function (Pi dom) thus known as a Perceiving type (Pi type)? 

*As well as why does MBTI say xxxP for an INTROVERTED person* when all IxxP’s (Fi doms & Ti doms) have a Judging dom function (Ji dom) thus known as a Judging type (Ji type)?

For *EXTROVERTS* the xxxJ matches the J dom function (Je doms - Te doms & Fe doms) that makes the person known as a Judging type (Je type); and the xxxP matches the P dom function (Pe doms - Ne doms & Se doms) that makes the person known as a Perceiving type (Pe type).


So why this controversy with the INTROVERT MBTI code is because it is *the person’s outer world* of how they behave in and handle their outer world that MBTI is putting the code for. Not *the person’s hidden inner self* thought/cognitive processing world. It goes by the FIRST extroverted function that appears in the person’s function stack. For INTROVERTS that first extroverted function is their AUX function rather than their DOM function like the EXTROVERTS. The FIRST introverted function in the stack indicates whether the person’s hidden inner world is P or J. So for EXTROVERTS their first introverted function (AUX) indicates whether their hidden inner world is Perceiving or Judging.

*What MBTI really should have done is put xxxJ-P and xxxP-J to indicate the first one means the person’s outer world and the 2nd one means the person’s hidden inner world.* It definitely would help to stop so much confusion for people when learning Typology and to know right away each person has both J and P, but one is in the outer world, and the other in the hidden inner world of thought/cognitive processing.

A person cannot function without an introverted and extroverted function, or without a perceiving and judging function, so the AUX is the opposite to the DOM in intro/extro order as well as opposite of Perceiving verses Judging. The AUX is the “Assistant Ruler” along with the Dom “Ruler”. It is the Dom and Aux that determine, order, structure and rule the entire function stack.

STACKING ORDER: ISTP for example Ti-Se-Ni-Fe: Dom Ti means inferior Fe, means dom Ti shadow is Te, and inferior Fe shadow is Fi. Aux Se means tert Ni, means shadow of aux Se is Si and shadow of tert Ni is Ne. It’s all about opposites for balance. The whole function stack is arranged according to the dom and aux.


*IT’S ALL ABOUT BALANCE WHY WE HAVE TO HAVE BOTH P & J*

For us to be balanced with our inner thought/cognitive processing world and our outer world, we have to have both P and J - one in the outer and the other in the inner to keep us balanced. Just as we have to all have a S, N, T, F function and S & N (Perceiving functions) in opposite intro/extro order (Si/Ne or Ni/Se), and T and F (Judging functions) in opposite intro/extro order (Ti/Fe or Fi/Te) to keep us balanced. Just like our function stack goes from intro-extro-intro-extro or extro-intro-extro-intro and goes from P-J-P-J or J-P-J-P. It’s all for balance.

P is for rolling along open-endedly with no strict plan, structure, conclusion, closure or judgment. J is for strict planning, structure, conclusion, closure and judgment. So it is a fine balance to have both – one in the outer, the other in the inner.

*Also it doesn’t mean a person can’t sometimes behave/process in the opposite outer and inner type that they have, but mostly no they won't. 


THE END.


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## Diamante (Mar 16, 2016)

@Dreamer777

Thanks for the text, it was pretty interesting and it clarified some things. After I read your text I checked through the cognitive functions and tried to figure out which I related to the most in one way or another, the result was the following, in no particular order: Si, Ne, Te and Fi. 

As I understood it these four functions would make up my four primary functions and the one I have a problem relating to/can't relate to at all would be my shadow functions? Because if that's the case then I will be able to narrow this down dramatically. I would put my functions in orders like this: 

Dominant functions: 
- Te - Dominant/Leading
- Si Auxiliary/Supporting

or

- Si Dominant/Leading
- Te Auxiliary/Supporting 

Because of the simple fact that I could relate the most to Si and Te of all the functions. With my tertiary and inferior function being Ne/Fi and Fi/Ne respectively. But I can't order these how I want, because then I wouldn't find a type, but there are two types that indeed have these functions as their four primary functions (Primary, Auxiliary, Tertiary and Inferior);
- ESTJ: Te Si Ne Fi
- ISTJ Si Te Fi Ne

So if I've gotten this right and if This site on cognitive functions is reliable then I would have narrowed this down to either being an *ISTJ* or *ESTJ* depending on how the functions are lined up. 

Thanks for the answer, it was easy to followed and I enjoyed that you had structured it: my eyes usually bleed when I have to read a wall of text without any structure and if the text isn't structured at all I usually stop reading, dismissing the whole post as stupid. However, you structured this really well and it made it easy to follow and it also matched up with other sources where I've read about Shadow Functions etc. however this was much easier to understand, or well, depending if I understood it this was much easier to understand. 

And, just for the record, I generally find INFP's rather adorable; this may sound condescending but I think of it as a compliment. The reason why I think so is probably because I feel that INFP's, in general, are very different from me and most with a more rosy outlook on life. However, I probably shouldn't generalize too much.


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## Dreamer777 (Jan 15, 2011)

Diamante said:


> @Dreamer777
> 
> Thanks for the text, it was pretty interesting and it clarified some things. After I read your text I checked through the cognitive functions and tried to figure out which I related to the most in one way or another, the result was the following, in no particular order: Si, Ne, Te and Fi.
> 
> ...


I'll be back on later when i have time to respond. Also please note i made an EDIT note on the last part of the post. The Pi, Pe, Ji, Je part. You can look back and read it, later i'll re-write that.

Your most welcome Diamante, i enjoy helping people to understand things easily that i already learned. Thanks for the INFP compliment, lol  we are pretty cool. And yes we can be pretty intense and sound irrational at times to T's because of our F logic, but we do want the best for everyone, enemies included. haha :happy:


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## myst91 (Sep 9, 2014)

Diamante said:


> Dominant functions:
> - Te - Dominant/Leading
> - Si Auxiliary/Supporting
> 
> ...


Yes, ESTJ is a strong possibility for you. You said too many things that do not fit an IxTx type so I'd say try on ESTJ. In socionics, do you relate to LSE?


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## Diamante (Mar 16, 2016)

@myst91

I agree that ESTJ is the most likely of the two but I'm not going to discard the ISTJ before I'm 100% sure I'm not one; I've looked into the ISTJ-forum and I can relate to a lot of things that's written there but maybe that is, to simplify this whole thing a lot, the xSTJ-part of the ISTJ I'm relating to. At least I'm pretty sure that I'm an xSTJ but that's how far I'm going to go to not dismiss something out of hand. 

When I did the enneagram I could both relate to the 3 and the 5, my result was 3w4 (I think) but I could relate a lot to the 5 too; first time I did it I became a 1. Not sure if there is a connection between the enneagram-types and mbti-types though. I will look into socionics tomorrow and get back to you about that part then; if you have a good, reliable socionics-test/page then I would appreciate if you could give me a link down below.

EDIT: I'm looking into the ESTJ-forum too but there is not that much content there compared to the ISTJ-forum, sadly.


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## myst91 (Sep 9, 2014)

Diamante said:


> @myst91
> 
> I agree that ESTJ is the most likely of the two but I'm not going to discard the ISTJ before I'm 100% sure I'm not one; I've looked into the ISTJ-forum and I can relate to a lot of things that's written there but maybe that is, to simplify this whole thing a lot, the xSTJ-part of the ISTJ I'm relating to. At least I'm pretty sure that I'm an xSTJ but that's how far I'm going to go to not dismiss something out of hand.
> 
> ...


No, enneagram and MBTI aren't too directly correlated. 

This test isn't bad Tests


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## Dreamer777 (Jan 15, 2011)

@Diamante

Ok Daimante i just got through re-doing the last part of the article on J and P that i said earlier that i would post later, so you can go and read that last part now. I think i got that last part structured ok now. Glad my whole article is helping you so much, i knew it would. It took alot of effort, but i knew you really needed it and i wanted to really help you understand all that about the cognitive functions stacking order, rolls, etc.

I have to go again as i'm out of time again right now, so i'll read and reply later to new the new posts, i haven't read them because i needed to block everything out so i could give you this much needed and great article to help you, and i did not want to get sidetracked or distracted, i wanted to get that last part done, then now i can move on with reading posts and replying, so bbl. Chow. :happy:


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## Dental Floss Tycoon (Apr 4, 2011)

I'm glad you seem to have discovered which functions you use the most. One advice I give you is to trust more yourself than what others say about you. Sometimes purely fitting behaviors in a box simply doesn't work. Also, these categories are very rigid, in real life people do have many traits that do not fit perfectly their type. Generally I try not to get obsessed with small details. I see many people in forums (not saying anything about people on this thread) becoming so obsessed with typing that, for instance, if I become sad because my cat just died, that automatically means I'm a feeler. This is complete nonsense. Best way to find what is your type is knowing the theory and, most important, knowing yourself. It is a constant process of self-discovering. One thing that may get lost in MBTI and that Enneagram focus on is that the real importance of knowing your personality is that the ego is, so to say, something "fake". Character and neurosis are closely related, so the process is solidifying your ego -> knowing your ego -> deconstructing your ego. This is the reason why Enneagram was developed, not to, sorry for the word but, masturbate your own ego by constantly reinforcing its own characteristics and making fancy games, which is something very very common among personality typologies communities on the internet. So if taken seriously, this whole personality thing may be a great process of self-development and may open doors to some of your deepest issues. Enjoy.


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## Dreamer777 (Jan 15, 2011)

Diamante said:


> @Dreamer777
> 
> Thanks for the text, it was pretty interesting and it clarified some things. After I read your text I checked through the cognitive functions and tried to figure out which I related to the most in one way or another, the result was the following, in no particular order: Si, Ne, Te and Fi.
> 
> ...


Cognitiveprocesses.com yes is a good site. But i've found that when it comes to the descriptions of Cognitive Functions that you have to read from alot of sources to get a fuller understanding. The functions are so complex that it is hard for anyone to try to describe them in full. But i do have alot of respect for Cognitiveprocesses.com and always will recommend their site.

The shadow function of inferior - the "devilish" function is the one we will not understand to nor relate to at all. The other 3 we don't use much nor relate to much, but it's the devilish function that we absolutely don't relate to at all and can't really understand the description of. The part where i spoke of in my article that "2 Kings can't rule in the same kingdom" explains that, the dom and devilish are in complete opposition with each other, and the dom is King/Ruler so it wipes out the devilish/shadow of inferior. Dom Ji wipes out devilish Ji. Dom Je wipes out devilish Je. Dom Pi wipes out devilish Pi. Dom Pe wipes out devilish Pe. 

Which of the 8 cognitive function descriptions on Cognitiveprocesses.com did you not relate to at all / related to the least? 

Also which function do you think you use when engaging in mental or physical activities that will perk up your mood when down or stressed? That could indicate your Aux.

Also, whatever type you think you may be, think of the dom and tert functions, put them in the reverse flip order, find the type that matches that reverse flip on their dom-tert (and has the same 4 main functions as you), and you should see some resemblance in you to that type when you are in dom-tert loops.

Here is an article on dom-tert loops, you may or may not find it helpful, some people do, some not too sure:
http://personalitycafe.com/articles/25205-dominant-tertiary-loops-common-personality-disorders.html

The other articles that are helpful too to alot of people, are the articles by Naomi Quenk on the eruption of inferior functions. Most of the types in their forums have it posted in their sticky articles, but not all types. Easiest way to hit up on them is to put in your internet search bar: Quenk inferior eruptions (then the 4 letter MBTI code of the type you are searching for). That will direct you to where you can find it. Usually most on PerC, but not all. It will bring up the list of sites to look around on.

So that's functions to figure out, what is your:

Devilish Function
Aux
Dom-Tert Loop
Inferior Eruption


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## myst91 (Sep 9, 2014)

@Dreamer777 So no guess actually? =)


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## Diamante (Mar 16, 2016)

@myst91

Test answer: 
Sociotype: LSI-2Ti (ISTj)

Other possible types: 
SLE (ESTp): 99% as likely as LSI. 
LII (INTj): 67% as likely as LSI. 
ILE (ENTp): 59% as likely as LSI. 

However I first read a SLE (ESTp) - LSI (ISTj) comparision and I could relate to both rather equally, then I read This LSI (ISTj) - LSE (ESTj) comparison where I probably could relate the most to LSE; some of the SLE (ESTp) parts I could relate to more than the LSI (ISTj) parts in that comparison was included as a LSE (ESTj) part too. So, based on the comparisons and if I had to choose now I would probably say that I relate the most to the LSE (ESTj) type or, maybe, the SLE (ESTp) type. 

EDIT: Going by This comparison I would probably say that I relate more to the SLE- than the LSE-type. If you thought of doing a comparison between my socionic- and mbti-type you may want to check my doubts when it comes to if I'm using Te or a Ti and Se or Si. 

@Dental Floss Tycoon

Thanks for those words, I probably needed them; It feels like I've been stared myself blind on the stereotypes and I agree; I will use this as a mean to try and figure myself out a little better. I appreciate the words and it was good to see that you hadn't given up on this thread, I enjoy everyone's contribution trying to help me figuring this whole thing out. 

@Dreamer777

Well, I'm pretty sure that I'm an xSTJ by now and I've gotten used to the thought that I feel like a uncertain I/E-case because that's the hardest part at the moment. 

Devilish Function​
I related the least to the following: 
- Fe
- Ni 

Which means I' might be an xSTJ of some sort. 

*Fe:* I'm using This as a source, basing my explanation on it. 

Even if I relate very little to it I still use some of this when working, it doesn't come naturally but I know how the world works and because of that I've trained myself, and been brought up this way, which when customers tell me a bad joke I laugh with them; not as a reflex because they're laughing but because that's what I'm supposed to do. So you can say that I use Fe because I'm supposed to use it, I don't use it as a reflex or as a part of how I feel within. 

*Ni:* I'm using This as a source, basing my explanation on it. 

I can relate to it, not much though. However I've had some "Aha"-moments (to put it bluntly) but it doesn't occur often at all and I'm not sure if it truly is an "Aha"-moment because I have had other facts, worked with them quickly and came to a conclusion that acted like an "Aha"-moment so it's not like the "Aha" come from nothing. This is pretty much everything I can say about it, this is something that have just happened though and not something that I can force myself to do, probably because it's hard/impossible to control this function properly.

Putting it like this I would probably say that I relate the least to Fe as a function even if I can adjust my behavior so that it resembles that of Fe, based on the explanation on that very site that is. But I'm not entirely sure. 

Auxiliary Function​
When stressed or down I can do different things but training is one thing, which may seem like a Se (maybe), thing but I don't think it needs to be because I think it may be much easier than that; being healthy physically is tied to being healthy mentally and that's why doctors say that depressed people need to train more, because it helps. When I became more physically healthy my mental state also improved however I'm going to include it anyway. 

So with that out of the way, if I'm stressed, down, tired and need to relax I do one of the following:
- Train
- Do something on my computer, either spending time on forums like this one, playing a game, maybe watching videos.
- Watch TV-series, movies, read books and/or comic books.

The one of all of these that is the most effective is probably the training. 

Dom-Tert Loop and Inferior Eruption-basics​
Before I even dwell on this I'm going to to see if I got this right. 

ISTJ Dom-Tert Loop:
- INFP 
ISTJ Inferior Eruption 
- ENFP

ESTJ Dom-Tert Loop:
- ENFP
ESTJ Inferior Eruption:
- INFP

This was how I understood it when I read your explanation on the other page, did I got it right or did I misunderstood the Dom-Tert Lopp and Inferior Eruption-basics?

EDIT: _Si vs Se and Te vs Ti_​
The S-function is the one that makes me uncertain, because I'm not sure if I'm a Si or a Se; I can see myself using Se instead of Si and Ti instead of Te but that, however, would give me this; 
ESTP: *Se Ti* Fe Ni
ISTP: *Ti Se* Ni Fe

Which in turn would make Ni and Fe my tertiary and inferior function respectively; which are the functions I thought I related the least to. Would you recommend me to read up on the cognitive functions more to get a better understanding of them? Just to mention it, when I've done tests Ti have been the highest on almost all tests if I remember correctly; I've done three or something like that.

So with this I'm pretty sure I'm an xSTx maybe going as far as to type me an ESTx but that's how far I can go at the moment.


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## Dreamer777 (Jan 15, 2011)

Diamante said:


> @Dreamer777
> 
> Well, I'm pretty sure that I'm an xSTJ by now and I've gotten used to the thought that I feel like a uncertain I/E-case because that's the hardest part at the moment.
> 
> ...


Honestly Diamante there will be some truth to some parts of stereotypes. That's why inferior eruptions can be categorized to types as well. No one will ever match all the stereotypes of their types, but they will have quite a few of their stereotypes, that is what the function stack depicts. If there were no difference in people's skills/weaknesses then there would be no MBTI and no different function stack ordering. It is because of how the functions are stacked that will depict some stereotype ways of our type. Everyone is a unique individual, unique upbringing, unique culture, unique family/parents/family lineage, etc, but we will display some of the stereotype ways of our type. So don't let no one fool you into believing anything different, they themselves are misunderstanding the whole reason of the different orders of function stacks of the Jungian 8 cognitive functions - ie: the 16 different personality types - the MBTI.

And as i've mentioned before we will display a few ways of other types sometimes, but we will show a dominant type in us that show the most stereotype of our dominant type. 

Those who refuse to believe that we do have quite a few stereotype ways of our type should not be interested in the MBTI or the different stacking order of cognitive functions, unless they are trying to learn because they don't understand. But to act like they understand and thus misleading others who are trying to learn is wrong to do. 

MBTI is used alot to guide people into Careers that suit their type. Why do you think that is?

As for cognitive functions and learning more of their complexity reading up more on them, absolutely yes i would say read as much as you can to get more fuller understanding of the functions. It takes time to learn more and more, it is the most complex part.

The info and questions i give you is for exploration. So just because you may jump to one function or type right away doesn't mean it's final. You have to continue your path of exploration as you can see you still feel unsure as you're swinging from ESTJ, ISTJ, ESTP, ISTP, am i Ti or Te, Ni or Ne, Si or Se, Fi or Fe, etc. You have not settled on what your type is, so continue on with as much exploration as possible.

When you do think you have settled on your type, then you will see the dom-tert loop makes sense as to the resemblance of the other type with the flip dom-tert loop, and that your aux makes sense as to what perks you up, and the ways of your inferior eruptions, and the least function you relate to - the devilish. All this will align and make sense when you finally discover your type. So, it's not so much to figure out your type on spot, as much as it is to be the proof in the end. You just have to keep exploring until you discover the type and all these things align and fit like a puzzle.

So for now you are still in the exploration phase, so just keep exploring til you feel sure.

Can you post results of a cognitive function test even though they are not always accurate sometimes they are, depends on if you answer realistically in the here and now and honestly without any manipulation or how you want to be seen rather than how you really are. You have to be as real and honest as possible when taking the tests. Post results from 2 different cog test sites, that will be more interesting. But one can be helpful too, sometimes. You say you score Ti highest on all 3 tests you did, to me that stands out, why not Te as highest over Ti? Why Ti the highest? And then it helps to see how you scored on the other functions as well, so if you could post results that would be great!

A most important question that is on some of the questionnaires is do you have any mental issues at this time that you know of or on any drugs/meds for any issues. Have you been diagnosed with any psychological disorders such as Depression, ADD, Bipolar, or anything? This is also very helpful info to know because mood swings, meds, etc can make typing difficult. 

I can see you learn and grasp quickly so with just a little more time and exploration i think you'll really have a great understanding of all the cognitive functions and their system. (Except that devilish function, lol  that one is illusive to understand it's description, but at least you'll understand the stacking of it and why it's in 8th place and the shadow of the inferior, etc.

Ask a Ti dom what Fi is and the answer they give will make a Fi dom roll on the floor laughing, just as well ask a Fi dom what Ti is and the answer they give will make a Ti dom roll on the floor laughing!  The devilish function, that's why it's called devilish. :happy:


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## myst91 (Sep 9, 2014)

Diamante said:


> @myst91
> 
> Test answer:
> Sociotype: LSI-2Ti (ISTj)
> ...


Heh I get similar results on that test actually.




> Even if I relate very little to it I still use some of this when working, it doesn't come naturally but I know how the world works and because of that I've trained myself, and been brought up this way, which when customers tell me a bad joke I laugh with them; not as a reflex because they're laughing but because that's what I'm supposed to do. So you can say that I use Fe because I'm supposed to use it, I don't use it as a reflex or as a part of how I feel within.


Sounds like conscious control over Fe - Fe role likely. Fe HA maybe but you come off as more Te overall.




> I can relate to it, not much though. However I've had some "Aha"-moments (to put it bluntly) but it doesn't occur often at all and I'm not sure if it truly is an "Aha"-moment because I have had other facts, worked with them quickly and came to a conclusion that acted like an "Aha"-moment so it's not like the "Aha" come from nothing. This is pretty much everything I can say about it, this is something that have just happened though and not something that I can force myself to do, probably because it's hard/impossible to control this function properly.


Sounds weaker than Fe.

So LSE over SLE and probably the same in MBTI.


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## Diamante (Mar 16, 2016)

@myst91, @Dental Floss Tycoon and @Dreamer777

Forewords​
Okay, so I waited with my answer today because I've pretty much spent the day researching, exploring, writing down functions on paper, hitting a dead end to start over again: all in all I've used doodled all over three A4 papers. However, I've come to a conclusion that may make you raise an eyebrow or two but hear me out before you judge. So, when I went to bed yesterday and before I fell asleep I got an interesting thought, a thought I tried to see past today because I didn't want to be biased, but the thought kept coming back to me: the thought was that I may be an *ENFP. *

Surprised? Well, me too but, as I said above, hear me out. 

Before I start I want to say that when I said I had suspected that I in fact was an F and not a T I wasn't just imagining things; I've had a hard time finding my type and I think that's because of some bad shit that happened to me many years ago and I've felt like what happened may have robbed me of my identity and/or made me unsure of who I really am. Just for the record; I'm not eating any medication and I'm not diagnosed with something either. 

OBS! You need to read all of the text within the spoilers to see where I'm coming from. 

ENFP​
Important realization

Okay, so in the end I came up with two personalities when I had assembled, sorting functions for hours and those personalities were, as you probably have figured out: ENFP and ESTJ. 

At this point my thought that I had before I fell asleep yesterday, that I may be an ENFP with and ESTJ dom-tert loop, hit me again and I checked this thread again: http://personalitycafe.com/articles/25205-dominant-tertiary-loops-common-personality-disorders.html


* *




_"To start with I'll use my own type, ENTP. Here's our functional breakdown:
Dominant Ne
Secondary Ti
Tertiary Fe
Inferior Si

But what happens if Ti is poorly developed? This most commonly happens because the tertiary function's common directional orientation with the dominant can make it seem more comfortable than the secondary! Our perception (obviously) relies on Ne, but with Ti not doing its job, we're forced to relinquish judgment to the tertiary (and less able) Fe.

We end up with Ne+Fe as the most dominant attitudes. If you don't see why this is a problem, consider the significance of intro/extroversion:

A balanced psyche requires significant influence from both internal and external stimuli--too much introversion and we retreat entirely into ourselves and ignore all outer world influence to an unhealthy degree; *too much extroversion and we are not able to remain in touch with what is important to our subjective internal selves, and become far too dependent upon external conditions and attitudes of others.*"_




I've depended on a lot of others, instead of trying to look within ME and to see how I feel about it I've wanted you to magically come up with the answer, or wanting another person to agree that I am a certain way. However, this is treacherous because I am the person who knows myself best and even if other people can help me, show me the right path or agree with me it's hard for them, nearly impossible, to type me without me myself trying to introspect to find the right answer. 

Suggestions in this thread and dom tert-loop


* *




_"For instance, I once mistook an INFJ for INTJ because he had poor secondary Fe and relied primarily on Ni+Ti. At the time I used only MBTI sliding scales and didn't know functions yet, so since I saw primarily N and T I figured he would be an NT type. *To the casual observer he would appear to be using N over S, and T over F, so he must be an NT type, right? Wrong! He is not an NT type unless his iNtuition and Thinking are oriented in opposite directions.*

*One really interesting result of this confusion is that each dom-tert loop type starts to look very similar to the dom-tert loop form of the type sharing only its first letter! For example:*

INTJ: *Ni* (Te) *Fi* Se

ISFP: *Fi* (Se) *Ni* Te

*This is exactly why many unbalanced personalities have difficulty fitting themselves into a single Jungian archetype.* Unsurprisingly, if the INTJ above would improve his Te, and the ISFP would improve his Se, each would balance out the monopoly introverted attitudes currently have on his perspective and lead himself to much greater personal balance and contentment.

For example: A certain user on typologycentral agonized over her type for months, creating numerous long threads and repeatedly changing her mind. My initial impression was ENFP, which I shared but which she promptly rejected. *After reading about function attitudes she described Te and Ne as her most prominent functions--at this point I changed my guess to ESTJ, which may seem like a bizarre jump if you don't understand dom/tert loop functions, but it's really not:*

ENFP: *Ne* (Fi) *Te* Si

ESTJ: *Te* (Si) *Ne* Fi

*So if you pick up mainly Ne and Te in someone, don't presume that he's an NT type--in fact, he's probably not. Depending on which is dominant, he is most likely either ENFP (Ne+Te with poor Fi) or ESTJ (Te+Ne with poor Si).*

Ironically, this user's primary personality imbalance was poorly developed secondary Fi--*it turned out she actually was an ENFP providing a perfect example of over-dependence on extroverted attitudes. She reported placing far too much emphasis on the approval of others and couldn't introspect enough to figure out which type was really her. Without a strong introverted function she was left a poor sense of individual self, and showed it through her dependence on the opinions of others to determine her type. She was looking everywhere but the right place--inside.*"_




Okay, so this is interesting; at the beginning of this thread people typed me ENTP and ENTJ; if you've read the text you will see why this is interesting. You also suggested ESTJ, which is even more interesting, and once again if you've read the text above you will understand why. I was lucky because the text gave an example about the very two types I had at the end. So the very typing-suggestions in this thread suggests that I may be an ENFP, also we've talked about poor Fi but that's also explained in the text: I would be an unbalanced ENFP that would rely more on Te (tertiary) instead of Fi (Auxiliary) if I've understood everything correctly. 

Why not ESTJ?

Well, I checked inferior cognitive eruptions and even if I could relate to Inferior Fi I could also relate to inferior Si; however, I guessed that the reason why I could relate to Inferior Fi is also because of me being an unbalanced ENFP and even if this would be the same for an unbalanced ESTJ with Si it felt like ENFP was the best fit if I took other things into account. 

This Saturday I think I realized something. I usually happen to be a go with the flow-person, pretty laid back and without really wanting to control people; however, as things transpired I got more and more inflexible with my friends, wanting to control them, didn't want to compromise just because etc. Which later made me realize I may have become something of an immature estj/istj (dom-tert loop etc) and that's partly where my idea of being a ENFP came from: I could see myself being an ENFP with ESTJ as a dom-tert loop rather than being an ESTJ with ENFP as a dom-tert loop.

Also the portrait of the ENP-child was a much better fit than the portrait of the ETJ-child. I also could relate a lot easier to using Ne as a child (primary function - first function in life If I recall correctly) rather than using Te as a child. 

I'm also guilty of procrastinating a lot which is more common with EP-types than EJ-types if I've understood correctly: sure it's not a big evidence but I thought it would be funny to bring it up. I've also checked the ENFP-portrait so that I could see if I was on the right track or not and I could relate to a lot of it. 

The End​
Well, that's that, I can't be 100% sure about this but it feels like this probably is the closest I've come to truly solving this puzzle; the fact that I got nervous and my heart started to race when I read the thread I linked above is probably evidence of how creepy it felt when everything started to fall in place. 

That's everything for now, I hope you enjoyed the post and hopefully I've nailed it this time.


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## Diamante (Mar 16, 2016)

@Dreamer777

Considering I realized I might be an healthy/balanced ENTP instead of an ENFP I also did what you said and did a cognitive-function test, results was the following: 

Extroverted intuition: highest score on all three tests.
Introverted Thinking vs Extroverted Thinking: Ti had a higher score than extroverted thinking on 2/3 tests; though it was very, very close one of the two tests. 
Extroverted Feeling vs Introverted Feeling: Fi had a higher score than Fe on all three tests. 
Extroverted Sensing vs Introverted Sensing: Extroverted Sensing was higher than introverted sensing on all three tests.

Similarminds and keys2cognition said that ENTP was the best fit considering my results, celebritytypes (used to get a third test) said that ENFP or ENTP was the most likely fits. I'm not sure how reliable these tests are but I've seen that similarminds and keys2cognition have been recommended in other place on this forum.

My biggest problem was deciding Fe vs Fi and Ti vs Te; according to these tests I would have ti and fi preference over te and fe but considering I already have an extroverted and introverted function I'm pretty sure Is correct (Inferior Si and Dominant Ni) I need to choose if Ti or Fi is my more likely Auxiliary function. If I should go by the tests Ti would probably be my Auxiliary considering Ti had a higher score on two (similarminds and keys2cognition) tests with a pretty good margin; I'm not sure, but If I should go by things that make me relax, like games (strategy etc) and reading through forums etc. I may think that Ti is my Auxiliary function making me an ENTP. (This would make @Kitty23 correct when she typed me ENTP on page one-two and I would have spent the last five-six pages running in a circle, which would amuse me greatly.) 

Worth mentioning is that I relate to both the ENFP and ENTP portraits, they're similar but still different so, yeah. 

Inferior Eruptions and Dom-Tert Loops​
(If I understood his correctly) 

ENFP:
Inferior Eruption: ISTJ
Dom-Tert Loop: ESTJ

ENTP:
Inferior Eruption: ISFJ
Dom-Tert Loop: ESFJ

I guess I could make a case for both really, maybe that ISFJ/ESFJ may ring more true because when I think back trying to find these kind of things I may act more like an F than a T. When I got rather unpleasant this Saturday it was all about two friends being inflexible when it came to what we should do that evening, three of us wanted to do something else than sitting home watching a movie (almost ANYTHING) but one of them pretty much didn't want to leave his house which gradually made me more and more unpleasant because I wanted everyone to do something together, it's more fun that way. Later on I was rather annoyed by my own reaction because I'm usually way more relaxed with my friends, with more of a "go with the flow"-attitude so either this was an example of a dom-tert loop (or an Inferior Eruption, don't know) or I was just in a really bad mood but I didn't feel like myself so I would probably go with one of the former. 
When the plans with my friends first seemed to go to hell (because of two friends stubbornness) my first solution was staying at home, doing noting, watching a movie and hang out with my family (pretty much spending time at home, sulking) but it ended in a pretty nice evening where me and two other friends wen't to the city having a good time; I figured staying at home wouldn't make anything better. This may have been an ENTP turning immature ISFJ (if I understood your explanation earlier) where my need to socialize was turned into something more of an introverted attitude where I wanted to spend time alone. 

I guess ENTP would fit my personality when it comes to E/I as it apparently is known as the introverted extrovert. 

So that's that thought; either way it feels like a lot points toward a ENxP-personality. 

Haha, it feels like the people still reading this thread have an urge to strangle me by now. It's okay if you feel like that, you're probably not alone. <3

EDIT: However, running, training and other rather repetitive physical tasks like chopping wood have a calming effect on me: I think it's because when I do one of these things I get some sort of alone time and it gives me space to think things through, reflect, analyze etc. Plus I figure that I can be productive at the same time I'm thinking.


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## Dreamer777 (Jan 15, 2011)

Here Diamante, i typed this up yesterday for you and just came on to post it and saw your replies just now, i haven't read fully through your replies, but let me post this chart and get it out of the way, it's a good check list to make it easier for you of all 16 of the types. I'll go back and read fully your last posts now...



*INFERIOR ERUPTION HIDDEN TYPE / DOM-TERT LOOP TYPE / AUX FUNCTION / DEVILISH FUNCTION*

*A PERSON BELONGS TO 1 OF THESE 4 GROUPS (Groups are numbered randomly in no special # order)*


*GROUP 1*

*STJ & NFP - Te/Fi + Ne/Si - ESTJ / ENFP / ISTJ / INFP*

*ESTJ – Te Si Ne Fi*
Inferior eruption – amateur/immature hidden reverse type – INFP – Fi Ne Si Te
Dom-tert loop resembling type – ENFP – *Ne* Fi *Te* Si
Aux function engage to stabilize mind - Si
Devilish function not used nor understood - Fe

*ENFP – Ne Fi Te Si*
Inferior eruption – amateur/immature hidden reverse type – ISTJ – Si Te Fi Ne
Dom-tert loop resembling type – ESTJ – *Te* Si *Ne* Fi
Aux function engage to stabilize mind – Fi 
Devilish function not used nor understood - Se

*ISTJ – Si Te Fi Ne*
Inferior eruption – amateur/immature hidden reverse type – ENFP – Ne Fi Te Si
Dom-tert loop resembling type – INFP – *Fi* Ne *Si* Te
Aux function engage to stabilize mind - Te
Devilish function not used nor understood - Ni

*INFP – Fi Ne Si Te*
Inferior eruption – amateur/immature hidden reverse type – ESTJ – Te Si Ne Fi
Dom-tert loop resembling type – ISTJ – *Si* Te *Fi* Ne
Aux function engage to stabilize mind – Ne
Devilish function not used nor understood - Ti


*GROUP 2*

*STP & NFJ – Fe/Ti + Se/Ni – ESTP / ENFJ / ISTP / INFJ*

*ESTP – Se Ti Fe Ni*
Inferior eruption – amateur/immature hidden reverse type – INFJ – Ni Fe Ti Se
Dom-tert loop resembling type – ENFJ – *Fe* Ni *Se* Ti
Aux function engage to stabilize mind - Ti
Devilish function not used nor understood - Ne

*ENFJ – Fe Ni Se Ti*
Inferior eruption – amateur/immature hidden reverse type – ISTP – Ti Se Ni Fe
Dom-tert loop resembling type – ESTP – *Se* Ti *Fe* Ni
Aux function engage to stabilize mind – Ni
Devilish function not used nor understood - Te

*ISTP – Ti Se Ni Fe*
Inferior eruption – amateur/immature hidden reverse type – ENFJ – Fe Ni Se Ti
Dom-tert loop resembling type – INFJ – *Ni* Fe *Ti* Se
Aux function engage to stabilize mind – Se 
Devilish function not used nor understood - Fi

*INFJ – Ni Fe Ti Se*
Inferior eruption – amateur/immature hidden reverse type – ESTP – Se Ti Fe Ni
Dom-tert loop resembling type – ISTP – *Ti* Se *Ni* Fe 
Aux function engage to stabilize mind – Fe
Devilish function not used nor understood - Si


*GROUP 3*

*SFP & NTJ - Te/Fi + Se/Ni - ENTJ / ESFP / INTJ / ISFP
*
*ENTJ – Te Ni Se Fi*
Inferior eruption – amateur/immature hidden reverse type – ISFP – Fi Se Ni Te
Dom-tert loop resembling type – ESFP – *Se* Fi *Te* Ni
Aux function engage to stabilize mind - Ni
Devilish function not used nor understood - Fe

*ESFP – Se Fi Te Ni* 
Inferior eruption – amateur/immature hidden reverse type – INTJ – Ni Te Fi Se 
Dom-tert loop resembling type – ENTJ – *Te* Ni *Se* Fi 
Aux function engage to stabilize mind - Fi
Devilish function not used nor understood - Ne

*INTJ – Ni Te Fi Se*
Inferior eruption – amateur/immature hidden reverse type – ESFP – Se Fi Te Ni
Dom-tert loop resembling type – ISFP – *Fi* Se *Ni* Te
Aux function engage to stabilize mind – Te
Devilish function not used nor understood – Si

*ISFP – Fi Se Ni Te *
Inferior eruption – amateur/immature hidden reverse type – ENTJ – Te Ni Se Fi 
Dom-tert loop resembling type – INTJ – *Ni* Te *Fi* Se 
Aux function engage to stabilize mind – Se 
Devilish function not used nor understood - Ti


*GROUP 4*

*SFJ & NTP – Fe/Ti + Ne/Si – ENTP / ESFJ / INTP / ISFJ 
*
*ENTP – Ne Ti Fe Si*
Inferior eruption – amateur/immature hidden reverse type – ISFJ – Si Fe Ti Ne
Dom-tert loop resembling type – ESFJ – *Fe* Si *Ne* Ti
Aux function engage to stabilize mind - Ti
Devilish function not used nor understood - Se

*ESFJ – Fe Si Ne Ti*
Inferior eruption – amateur/immature hidden reverse type – INTP – Ti Ne Si Fe 
Dom-tert loop resembling type – ENTP – *Ne* Ti *Fe* Si
Aux function engage to stabilize mind – Si
Devilish function not used nor understood - Te

*INTP – Ti Ne Si Fe*
Inferior eruption – amateur/immature hidden reverse type – ESFJ – Fe Si Ne Ti
Dom-tert loop resembling type – ISFJ – *Si* Fe *Ti* Ne
Aux function engage to stabilize mind – Ne 
Devilish function not used nor understood - Fi

*ISFJ – Si Fe Ti Ne*
Inferior eruption – amateur/immature hidden reverse type – ENTP – Ne Ti Fe Si
Dom-tert loop resembling type – INTP – *Ti* Ne *Si* Fe 
Aux function engage to stabilize mind – Fe
Devilish function not used nor understood – Ni

______________________________________________________________________


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## Dreamer777 (Jan 15, 2011)

@Diamante

On all the cognitive tests you did (which i was hoping you would copy and paste the results so as to see the whole chart view of all your scores on different functions, so if you still can post the chart results would be great) but anyhows, what was the lowest score on each test result, that should indicate your devilish, and whatever your devilish is would indicate your dom and inferior. 
(Which was the 2nd lowest also, that could indicate your 7th function, tert shadow which could indicate your tert also which could indicte your aux also?) Sometimes the first 6 highest are mixed up, but the last 2 or maybe 3 lowest can be a telling sign indicating what we are really weak in.

Te Dom = Fi Inferior = Fe Devilish
Fe = Ti = Te
Se = Ni = Ne
Ne = Si = Se
Ti = Fe = Fi
Fi = Te = Ti
Si = Ne = Ni
Ni = Se = Si

I totally agree you have to be the one who agrees and feels comfortable with your type choice and i do mention that throughout. Honestly though you are still swinging around from type to type like Tarzan swinging in the trees, lol :happy: which is normal for some people when exploring type possibilities, so nothing unusual, some people are easier to type and some more complex. You'll be a master at this once you're done, a storehouse of knowledge! Lol :happy:

So let me hear about your 2 or 3 least score functions and their %, or better yet copy and paste the charted results would be cool.

(Btw: i still think you are a T type rather than an F type)


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## Diamante (Mar 16, 2016)

@Dreamer777

I thought you might ask for the results so I saved the pictures; 
- http://i.imgur.com/GTBlDQs.png
- http://i.imgur.com/39uJ1Hx.png
- http://i.imgur.com/b4xgh34.png

It seems like Fe is the one that is the lowest most often, which in that case would give Fi as inferior, Te as dominant and with Te as dominant I would probably get Ni as auxiliary and Se as my relief (if we look at the results). If you go from below you would have:

8 Fe 
7 Si 
6 Ne (considering Te is my Dominant and thus Ti would be 5 and introverted intuition is higher than Fi so Ni is probably my aux) 
5 Ti 
4 Fi 
3 Se (Se will come as number three considering I can't have to Introverted functions in row and Ni had higher score than Fi, thus it should be number two) 
2 Ni 
1 Te 

Doing it this way would make up the cognitive functions of the ENTJ If I haven't missed something?


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## Dreamer777 (Jan 15, 2011)

Diamante said:


> @Dreamer777
> 
> I thought you might ask for the results so I saved the pictures;
> - http://i.imgur.com/GTBlDQs.png
> ...


ah, you know me so well!  Thank ya for the result charts!

ok so by putting on blinders to everything so far, and just taking nothing else into consideration but only these 3 tests by looking at those result charts, it does seem that your strongest 2 functions are N and T, and your weaker are S and F. But the results show highest N and lowest F which can't be. The highest function (dom) is of the same perceiving or judging type of the inferior and devilish. So to be a N dom, means inferior S and devilish S. To be a T dom, means inferior F and devilish F. And the results are not lining up with a clean line so to speak to match dom with inferior and devilish J or P categories. 

Unfortunately for every argument there can be a counter argument with those results as to whether a T dom / F inferior or N dom / S inferior. So if these results have substance to them, it would definitely put you in the NT types with S & F in tert or inferior. ENTP, ENTJ, INTP, INTJ. 

ENTP / INTP are of the NTP group with hidden and dom-tert types of SFJ. ENTP has Ti aux/devilish Se, INTP has Ne aux/devilish Fi.
ENTJ / INTJ are of the NTJ group with hidden and dom-tert types of SFP. ENTJ has Ni aux/devilish Fe, INTJ has Te aux/devilish Si.

Averages from 3 Tests:

Ne 67
Ni 54
Te 47
Ti 47
Fi 42
Se 38
Si 36
Fe 31

Totals:
N - 121 (Ne 67 Ni 54) Ne and Ni are higher than all others with Ne being highest of all.
T - 94 (Te 47 Ti 47)Te & Ti are average to each other and come in at 2nd place below the N's.
S - 74 (Se 38 Si 36) Se & Si are average to each other but lower than the N's and T's and higher than Fe, but lower than Fi.
F - 73 (Fi 42 Fe 31) Fi is higher than Fe and the S's, but lower than the N's and T's, and Fe is the lowest of all others).

So i'm thinking probably the only solid conclusion to be drawn from this test is it shows a NT type with tert or inferior S or F. We could speculate that the N's are highest with Ne higher than Ni to say ENTP. But why is Fi higher than Se & Si, and Fe lowest of all? It doesn't add up. In ENTP Fe would be the tert and Fi the 7th or shadow of tert which is still used and understood somewhat to a point, and the devilish would be Se. So why is Fe so much lower than Se when it should be pretty much higher to be a tert function, and Se should score low to be the devilish. This is a tough choice because Fe results show it to be the devilish function, where as Ne results show Ne to be the dom and it doesn't add up. 

Which result is wrong, which is right? How did you answer your questions, were you answers consistent with each question of being really who you are and not just who you would like to be, or did you have confusion as to how to answer some of the questions? All this will affect the test results.

But anyhows, still very interesting never the less. The more info the better to build a good case and conclusion, to give much enlightenment and knowledge. "Give a man a fish - feed feed him for the day; teach a man to fish - feed him for his life."

Also when you think of ways to "perk up" by engaging aux, let's change the wording "perk-up" to "calming and stabilizing the mind - re-balancing and restoring the function stack back to normal functioning order".

In inferior function grips and dom-tert loops, F, S or T functions can't calm and stabilize my mind like engaging my Aux Ne function does. The problem that causes these dom-tert loops and inferior eruption grips in the first place is that our Aux got pushed aside and that's why we need to bring it back up and use it to rebalance. In dom-tert loops we use our tert with our dom, and in inferior eruption grips we use our tert with our inferior. So the one not being used is aux and that is why it is the one to engage to stabilize and calm the mind to restore balance back to the order of our function stack to make it function properly again. It is a good clue to try to figure out your Aux function 

_____________________________________________

EDIT TO ADD SOMETHING ELSE:

Being that the T is 2nd in line to N on your tests, and S and F are all low, and Ne and Ni are both higher than Ti and Te, with Ne being highest, could very well indicate ENTP the most, because none of the T scores were as high as the N scores. Even though Fe scored low it could be that you didn't answer some of the F and S questions that accurately causing it to come out with those results? 

I looked back through some of your posts from the beginning before you announced you were manipulating info, and some parts stuck out to me of that of an ENTP along with the fact that throughout the thread you love alot of debate and possibilities and ideas of which type you are swinging from type to type in lengthy debating. I think it would have been better if you didn't mention anything about manipulating the info, it did cause confusion, I think up til then that the other typists from the start had you right as ENTP of which you shrugged off to further debate more types, which would be a joy for an ENTP to continue exploring possibilities and debating. So by debating and swinging from type to type changing up info, you did get to learn alot about MBTI, 8 Jungian Cognitive Functions and the 16 Personality types, etc, so that way you were able to gain alot of knowledge through debating which ENTP's are the type that loves to debate playfully and endlessly and scoop up knowledge. 

The talkative ways in class as a child would also match an ENTP because they have a tendency to push their boundaries as far as they can get away with it and do get into alot of trouble as kids like ESTP kids do too. And ENTP's love alot of chatting and debating. Soundboarding comes in 2 forms, it comes through Te and it comes through Ne, so that would explain the soundboarding ideas and possibilities through debating through Ne. And speaking about playing in imaginary worlds until it got too complex to create it anymore would sound like the growing up of an ENTP child also. ENTP's easily take leadership roles as well as all ET's do (The Cholerics). 

So what you think, ENTP it is then for you? Or do you need more debate lol :happy:

Tell me about your training, what are you training for? You mention about how you enjoy training.


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## Diamante (Mar 16, 2016)

@Dreamer777

Thanks for the answer and for the last edit.

I agree that ENTP might be the best fit after all; let's use the exclusion method. Ne was highest on all tests, this gives us Primary = Ne and Fifth Function = Ni. Then I need an introverted function and Te/Ti was equal but still on a higher avarage than Fi; this would give us Ti = Auxiliary and Te = Sixth Function. Here's where it gets more confusing, but Fe is the best fit despite a low score, why?
- I can't have two introverted functions in a row - despite high score Fi can't be my tertiary neither can Si
- Why Fe over Se despite Fe being the lowest? Well, we can't come up with new personalities now, can we? The only combination that is available with what we have done up til now and what we have left is Ne, Ti, Fe, Si, Ni, Te, Fi, Se ergo ENTP. 

The only really concrete thing, from the tests, as you said is that Ne is the highest of them all (on all tests), Ti is pretty much tied with Te on two tests BUT on one of the tests Ti is clearly higher than Te; plus the fact that I need an introverted function as my auxiliary now anyway. Sure, the test is bound to be rather confusing because of the human error, me, and thus I think we will have to find the best fit; the big picture instead of staring us blind at numbers and that it doesn't add up. 

That Fe is low wasn't surprising for me because Fe is probably where I lie to myself the most because of the fact that I don't have a very high opinion of myself when it comes to this. This was also were the manipulation came into account, I think, the questionnaire was completely true; I didn't alter it one bit. The information about myself, however, was altered excluding examples of eventual kindness toward other people: If I got everything right such things would be examples of Fe. So I didn't alter my whole personality, or faked every answer 90% are truthful and then I probably kept 10% of information from you; maybe I should have been more exact when I brought this up the first time. 

So, when that's out of the way, you could make a case for an unbalanced ESTJ too, if I have understood the theory correctly; that would give an ESTJ that relies mostly on Te-Ne instead of Te-Si, probably resulting in a higher Ne score and a lower Si score but I'm not sure if the difference would be THAT big if that was the case. 

Why do I train? At first it was to compete in boxing but I let that goal go. Now? Well, to get fit I guess however I've have a cold almost the entire winter so I've not trained properly in a while. I lost a lot of weight in 7-8 months and now I feel better in general because if this I would like to stay fit. Although, I procrastinate and when a routine is broken it's hard for me to get into a routine again, when the routine is established I pretty much go autopilot and just do it. 

At the moment I chop wood, I see it as a time for thoughts, low-intensity training and a moment to be productive at the same time. Plus, considering I live at home, If I pull my own weight it gets more bearable and I can do whatever I want the most time without my parents bugging me about not doing enough.

And, about getting typed as an ENTP in the beginning and being typed as an ENTP now: difference is that I would know WHY I am an ENTP now, how the conclusion was made and that I can see WHY it fits which is much more satisfying for me personally. I'm not interested in just getting spoon-fed a conclusion I want to understand how you came to the conclusion so that I can see it for myself.

I don't know, maybe ENTP is the best fit after all: the thought about choosing type have always made me feel a little wistful. I'm not sure if I like the idea of choosing and I pretty much caught myself with coming up with eventual reasons as to why I may not be an ENTP. Maybe I'm just trying to keep the discussion going? Because, so far, I would agree that ENTP seem to be the best fit if you consider everything.

EDIT: The only thing I'm wondering is how an inferior Si-eruption manifest itself? I've read a description on a site that you linked to me but I had a hard time relating that to something that I have experienced? This is the only thing that makes me doubt myself as an ENTP at the moment. Maybe I should read it again tomorrow when I aren't as tired, however, if you can give me more examples of inferior si-eruptions, or explain it further, I would be grateful.


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## Dreamer777 (Jan 15, 2011)

Diamante said:


> @Dreamer777
> 
> Thanks for the answer and for the last edit.
> 
> ...


Hi Diamante, i been stressed and busy and still am irl so can't spend too much time right now, i did see the mail as well just now too, so i'll try my best to respond when i have time. I must say though, that i just can't see another type other than ENTP go through such lengthy debating and manipulating of personal info so as to learn more about Typology. I can respect that in your psyche you possibly don't feel assured unless through immense incredible debating and tweaking of info and what if's, etc, and that you won't settle as a type until you are satisfied that you've exhausted and explored all possibilities as much as possible. 

Honestly though, i think you should go hang on the ENTP forum and chat with them over there and learn more about them that way also and how you fit in to their forum, and also they have alot of energy to debate with you with all that extroverted energy they have as ENTP's and their hunger for debating with Ne as intellectual/intuiting extroverts. Maybe you could gain alot of satisfaction that way by chatting with the ENTP's.

When i have time i'll look through the info you wrote here as i haven't really read properly just rushing through and also the mail.

bbl....


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## Dreamer777 (Jan 15, 2011)

@Diamante



> So, when that's out of the way, you could make a case for an unbalanced ESTJ too, if I have understood the theory correctly; that would give an ESTJ that relies mostly on Te-Ne instead of Te-Si, probably resulting in a higher Ne score and a lower Si score but I'm not sure if the difference would be THAT big if that was the case.


It is a good point, but the difference in score wouldn't be THAT big. You're a Ne dom and that is why you score so high in Ne. And you are a thinker rather than a feeler so that rules out STJ/NFP category all together. You are more of the INTP type of thinkers, but you're extroverted and Ne is dom, so you are hyper intuitive extrovertedly with Ti, not Fi. And you are Ne dom, not Ni dom.

To have a dom-tert Ne-Te/Te-Ne loop would be an ENFP/ESTJ not an ENTP/ESFJ Ne-Fe/Fe-Ne loop. 

Also procrastination is a very xxxP trait, not an xxxJ trait.

Did you read this on inferior eruption Si by Naomi Quenk?

http://personalitycafe.com/entp-articles/76805-recognizing-inferior-function-entp.html

One of the things of inferior Si would be stressing over the small details which you can see you have been doing alot in your quest of learning your type and Typology, swinging around from type to type in tons of debate and moments of confusion. Your dom Ne produces all the what if's/possibilities/ideas/theories/concepts, and your inferior Si is running around like crazy trying to dig up and comb through all the small details to make sense of it all, something like that.

Also you can look around on youtube videos to learn alot of things on typology as well because videos do help also.

Here's is Dr. Juice speaking on inferior function eruption, and then to the side (on the youtube site) you can choose other videos as well through the list that displays.


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## Dreamer777 (Jan 15, 2011)

Part of the ENTP description from https://www.16personalities.com/entp-personality

*ENTP PERSONALITY (“THE DEBATER”)*

_Follow the path of the unsafe, independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the dangers of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of 'crack-pot' than the stigma of conformity. And on issues that seem important to you, stand up and be counted at any cost.
Thomas J. Watson_

The ENTP personality type is the ultimate devil's advocate, thriving on the process of shredding arguments and beliefs and letting the ribbons drift in the wind for all to see. Unlike their more determined Judging (J) counterparts, ENTPs don't do this because they are trying to achieve some deeper purpose or strategic goal, but for the simple reason that it's fun. No one loves the process of mental sparring more than ENTPs, as it gives them a chance to exercise their effortlessly quick wit, broad accumulated knowledge base, and capacity for connecting disparate ideas to prove their points.

An odd juxtaposition arises with ENTPs, as they are uncompromisingly honest, but will argue tirelessly for something they don't actually believe in, stepping into another's shoes to argue a truth from another perspective.
Playing the devil's advocate helps people with the ENTP personality type to not only develop a better sense of others' reasoning, but a better understanding of opposing ideas – since ENTPs are the ones arguing them.

This tactic shouldn't be confused with the sort of mutual understanding Diplomats (NF) seek – ENTPs, like all Analyst (NT) personality types, are on a constant quest for knowledge, and what better way to gain it than to attack and defend an idea, from every angle, from every side?

*ENTP personality
There Are no Rules Here – We're Trying to Accomplish Something!*

Taking a certain pleasure in being the underdog, ENTPs enjoy the mental exercise found in questioning the prevailing mode of thought, making them irreplaceable in reworking existing systems or shaking things up and pushing them in clever new directions. However, they'll be miserable managing the day-to-day mechanics of actually implementing their suggestions. ENTP personalities love to brainstorm and think big, but they will avoid getting caught doing the "grunt work" at all costs. ENTPs only make up about three percent of the population, which is just right, as it lets them create original ideas, then step back to let more numerous and fastidious personalities handle the logistics of implementation and maintenance.

ENTPs' capacity for debate can be a vexing one – while often appreciated when it's called for, it can fall painfully flat when they step on others' toes by say, openly questioning their boss in a meeting, or picking apart everything their significant other says. This is further complicated by ENTPs' unyielding honesty, as this type doesn't mince words and cares little about being seen as sensitive or compassionate. Likeminded types get along well enough with people with the ENTP personality type, but more sensitive types, and society in general, are often conflict-averse, preferring feelings, comfort, and even white lies over unpleasant truths and hard rationality.

This frustrates ENTPs, and they find that their quarrelsome fun burns many bridges, oftentimes inadvertently, as they plow through others' thresholds for having their beliefs questioned and their feelings brushed aside. Treating others as they'd be treated, ENTPs have little tolerance for being coddled, and dislike when people beat around the bush, especially when asking a favor. ENTP personalities find themselves respected for their vision, confidence, knowledge, and keen sense of humor, but often struggle to utilize these qualities as the basis for deeper friendships and romantic relationships.

*Opportunity Is Missed Because It Looks Like Hard Work*

ENTPs have a longer road than most in harnessing their natural abilities – their intellectual independence and free-form vision are tremendously valuable when they're in charge, or at least have the ear of someone who is, but getting there can take a level of follow-through that ENTPs struggle with.

Once they've secured such a position, ENTPs need to remember that for their ideas to come to fruition, they will always depend on others to assemble the pieces – if they've spent more time "winning" arguments than they have building consensus, many ENTPs will find they simply don't have the support necessary to be successful. Playing devil's advocate so well, people with this personality type may find that the most complex and rewarding intellectual challenge is to understand a more sentimental perspective, and to argue consideration and compromise alongside logic and progress.


~Click on link at beginning to see more...


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

@Diamante 

Other people also originally guessed you to be an ENTP. Not just me. And yes, I do still think you are an ENTP.


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## Diamante (Mar 16, 2016)

@ghostfire01 , @Kitty23 (I thought I'd include you in this post too), @purplegreen, @Dental Floss Tycoon (ExTP guess) and myst91 (ENxJ guess after me dismissing ENTP) 

Sums up the first page pretty good, well, I settled for ENTP so you were right in the first page/partially right in the second; I don't regret making a bigger discussion out of it because It feels like I learned something from it. However, I figured I owed you a thanks so; thank you for your time and help, I'm grateful for it even if it probably doesn't look like that at first glance. I have the confidence to admit when I'm wrong and it seems I was wrong when I dismissed the ENTP-type out of hand.

Also thanks to @Dreamer777 for your guidance to the end and helpful links.


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## Diamante (Mar 16, 2016)

- Deleted -


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