# I have become a slave to caffeine again.



## Bricolage (Jul 29, 2012)

TerminalDancer said:


> Lord help me.. It's starting to get a good grip on me now. It must be a
> part of every day. And chocolate too oftentimes. I think the more alone I feel, the more I crave indulgences. Or maybe it's vice versa. Is this just another pointless thread that will just get shot down? I can't even tell anymore..


More and more I'm convinced than genes trump behavior. William Burroughs shot heroin for decades and crossed eighty relatively intact. Health-conscious folk keel over from heart attacks at 43 because of bad genes. I would just avoid cigarettes and booze and not worry too much...ironically the legal, lobbied stuff has the worst health outcomes.


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## platorepublic (Dec 27, 2012)

Zoof said:


> Chill. Out.
> 
> why are you stressing out over the fact that you have a bit of chocolate on a daily basis and drink caffeine. Both can be part of a healthy diet. Unless you are eating chocolate by the pound and you can't go without your caffeine for a day without getting headaches.
> 
> So.. Are you actually eating more chocolate than you should and are you really drinking more caffeine than you should? Or are you latching on to these preferred foods/drinks in order to get a hold of your emotions?


Why? Paranoia.

Research (see eg. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubm...) indicates that caffeine affects dopamine transmission. It is generally believed that excess dopamine causes psychosis, eg. paranoia. Excess caffeine intake may lead to psychosis and may exacerbate psychosis in people already struggling with psychosis. My clinical experience bears this out. However while three or four lattes and a couple of diet cokes per day should not be enough to generate paranoia or other types of psychosis in the great majority of people, a small number of people, perhaps 3% but as many as 6% of adolescents, who have a propensity for psychotic thought process might very well experience these types of symptoms. This is not to say that this level of caffeine intake in a majority of people is benign. I believe it is not- it is probably excessive and this level can cause other symptoms, esp. insomnia, restlessness, anxiety, irritability, stomach problems, rapid heartbeat and other problems (http://www.mayoclinic.com/health...). Also, excessive caffeine intake has been shown to exacerbate the effects of methamphetamine intoxication, one of which is psychosis. Also, as most people know caffeine in most people can interfere with sleep, and normal people who go sleep deprived for three or four or more days are at risk for psychotic experiences. People who notice that caffeine leads to psychosis should stop ingesting caffeine or at least significantly reduce the intake of caffeine. If symptoms of paranoia persist after stopping the intake of caffeine, a psychiatrist or other mental health professional should be consulted right away.


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## birdsintrees (Aug 20, 2012)

@platorepublic The operative word in your post being 'excessive'


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## Devin87 (May 15, 2011)

I just discovered these babies:





























My employees are starting to comment on how I have packets stashed everywhere. Each tiny little packet has as much caffeine as two cans of Red Bull and I've been drinking 2-3 a day... It's such a cheap and easy source... I've got a problem.


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## Impavida (Dec 29, 2011)

unctuousbutler said:


> More and more I'm convinced than genes trump behavior. William Burroughs shot heroin for decades and crossed eighty relatively intact. Health-conscious folk keel over from heart attacks at 43 because of bad genes. I would just avoid cigarettes and booze and not worry too much...ironically the legal, lobbied stuff has the worst health outcomes.


Never heard of Burroughs, but that doesn't really surprise me. Heroin is an opiate, and opiates are unique in that they don't cause any physical damage apart from addiction (and occasionally constipation). What screws up most addicts is that they don't have the means to support the habit, so they end up falling into very unhealthy lifestyles. So long as you don't end up on the streets or overdose, there's absolutely no reason you couldn't live to a ripe old age as an opium addict.

That's not genes. It's just the nature of the drug. I agree with you though that the big three legal drugs (caffeine, nicotine and alcohol) have far worse health consequences than any of the opium derivatives.


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## niffer (Dec 28, 2011)

"Coffee is number one source of antioxidants"



> Coffee provides more than just a morning jolt; that steaming cup of java is also the number one source of antioxidants in the U.S. diet, according to a new study by researchers at the University of Scranton (Pa.). Their study was described today at the 230th national meeting of the American Chemical Society, the world's largest scientific society.
> 
> "Americans get more of their antioxidants from coffee than any other dietary source. Nothing else comes close," says study leader Joe Vinson, Ph.D., a chemistry professor at the university. Although fruits and vegetables are generally promoted as good sources of antioxidants, the new finding is surprising because it represents the first time that coffee has been shown to be the primary source from which most Americans get their antioxidants, Vinson says. Both caffeinated and decaf versions appear to provide similar antioxidant levels, he adds.


Via Phys.Org Mobile: Coffee is number one source of antioxidants

Anyway, if caffeine has become a problem for you, good luck in your journey to calmness and serenity heh. I agree that the practice of putting caffeine consumption over sleep is harmful in our society. I never knew about caffeine and REM. Keep spreading info. I just had to offer that contrary tidbit I found because I think it's pretty big, health wise.


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## Bricolage (Jul 29, 2012)

jayde said:


> Never heard of Burroughs, but that doesn't really surprise me. *Heroin is an opiate, and opiates are unique in that they don't cause any physical damage apart from addiction (and occasionally constipation).* What screws up most addicts is that they don't have the means to support the habit, so they end up falling into very unhealthy lifestyles. So long as you don't end up on the streets or overdose, there's absolutely no reason you couldn't live to a ripe old age as an opium addict.
> 
> *That's not genes. It's just the nature of the drug. * I agree with you though that the big three legal drugs (caffeine, nicotine and alcohol) have far worse health consequences than any of the opium derivatives.


I never said Burroughs persevered because of genes. Burroughs also drank heavily and smoked, though, so genes might be something to consider. :wink:


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## Indiana Dan (Jun 11, 2013)

Guys, my reason for avoiding caffeine so enthusiastically is because it is addictive. Not from 'paranoia from excessive dopamine' or any of that craziness. I simply don't want addictive substances in my life. I can get by with an occasional cup every couple weeks and enjoy it without much fuss, but that's all I want.

I need my adrenaline to exercise. If I consume caffeine, I will have a pitiful amount of adrenaline left when it comes time to exercise. 

I need the deepest sleep I can get. Caffeine greatly inhibits this.

I don't want the unnecessary added stress that caffeine causes. 

Causes weight gain in my love handle area from stress hormones and from constant sugar release from the liver that's not being burned.

Also, my kidneys are damaged from drug overdoses and they cannot handle much of anything.

Many, many more reasons.


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## Indiana Dan (Jun 11, 2013)

@niffer Yeah, you're going to need all those antioxidants. They might cover 1/3 of the damage that the caffeine causes to your body.


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## Indiana Dan (Jun 11, 2013)

jayde said:


> Never heard of Burroughs, but that doesn't really surprise me. Heroin is an opiate, and opiates are unique in that they don't cause any physical damage apart from addiction (and occasionally constipation). What screws up most addicts is that they don't have the means to support the habit, so they end up falling into very unhealthy lifestyles. So long as you don't end up on the streets or overdose, there's absolutely no reason you couldn't live to a ripe old age as an opium addict.
> 
> That's not genes. It's just the nature of the drug. I agree with you though that the big three legal drugs (caffeine, nicotine and alcohol) have far worse health consequences than any of the opium derivatives.


Yeah, a ripe old man who has about 50lbs of shit in his colon and who hasn't had an erection in 30 or 40 years, no friends, and who's life is filled to the brim with complete utter misery due to psychological implications of long term substance addiction.


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## Impavida (Dec 29, 2011)

@TerminalDancer Lol. Oh I agree that no addiction is a good addiction. However if you're going to be addicted to anything, opium derivatives are probably going to do you far less damage in the long run than any of the legal drugs.


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## LibertyPrime (Dec 17, 2010)

...every morning.


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## Indiana Dan (Jun 11, 2013)

jayde said:


> @_TerminalDancer_ Lol. Oh I agree that no addiction is a good addiction. However if you're going to be addicted to anything, opium derivatives are probably going to do you far less damage in the long run than any of the legal drugs.


You forgot about how much it lowers the body's immunity. An opiate addict is a weak and very susceptible being that wouldn't stand up the forces of the world for very long


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## Impavida (Dec 29, 2011)

TerminalDancer said:


> You forgot about how much it lowers the body's immunity. An opiate addict is a weak and very susceptible being that wouldn't stand up the forces of the world for very long


Ah yes. Forgot about that part. It has been a long time since I researched all this stuff


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