# Ti Users in School



## Oldlady (Sep 18, 2009)

I am about to retake a computer science course. I was thinking about why I did poorly, and I realized - I am worried about infection!

Every course I take... I feel I am not getting the crystal clear Ti standard of understanding I so desire. It feels like I am being pulled through a survey of the material much too quickly. I want to get EVERYTHING TOGETHER before I move forward. 

I worry that these university courses will clutter up my mind. I will start memorizing formulas, losing out on the opportunity to DEEPLY learn. I will get a suboptimal understanding of the material and then be passed on to the next course. Over time, the lack of understanding will accumulate until I have no idea what is going on.

I will set lower standards for mastery as a result of pressure from the university I am in, and that will change me. 

I don't want to be a half assed collection of useless shit I memorized to pass an exam. I want MASTERY.

Thinking back to high school... I never tried to satisfy my Ti cravings in classes, and I did pretty well in them. I kept my quest for real understanding outside of school, and just did half assed Ti to understand the material enough to pass classes. I don't know if I even remember that material.

Maybe setting high Ti standards in classes is a set up for failure. Maybe if I didn't want to get everything down perfectly, things would be much easier.


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## Oldlady (Sep 18, 2009)

As an addition, I tried to gain absolute Ti mastery of math in middle school/high school. It just resulted in procrastination, and poor grades.

Can an attempt to apply pure and total Ti to classes in school actually have negative consequences, since this often requires detours and a significantly slowed pace?


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## Word Dispenser (May 18, 2012)

It's possible. I never really looked at it that way before. 

I remember becoming frustrated time and time again with math teachers. I never got a math teacher that taught me conceptually. I guess it makes sense. Most people seem to work within the concrete world, and 'real' examples. 

It took me _much_ longer to comprehend the material this way, and I wanted to understand the _reason_ behind the mathematics, I wanted to know what it meant and why. I remember wanting so badly to understand. I really gave myself a hard time, because everyone else seemed to have a much easier time with it, and I loved to learn and know what I could know. The worst was being told I just 'wasn't a math person'. I never accepted that, and never will. You can be what you want to be.

By the time I hit high school, and then college, I had so many gaps in my knowledge that I was learning advanced material without a firm grasp of basics that I would have had if it had been taught to me with my learning style in mind. 

So now I'm going back on my own, and finding out that it's incredibly easy... Guess what my problem is _now? _


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## Oldlady (Sep 18, 2009)

I had THE SAME EXPERIENCE WITH MATH.

I was told that I was not a math person because I got bad grades in school. 

I also gave myself a bad time, and felt inferior to the people who just seemed to get it.

I will guess that your problem now is that you are too absorbed in math. You spend all your time on it, and you don't put any into other pursuits that you need to.


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## Word Dispenser (May 18, 2012)

Oldlady said:


> I had THE SAME EXPERIENCE WITH MATH.
> 
> I was told that I was not a math person because I got bad grades in school.
> 
> ...


Nah. I wish.

My problem _now_ is that the basics are too easy and not challenging enough. Even though I need to go through the basics in order to have a solid grasp of the advanced mathematics, it's no easy task to make myself sit down and do it without losing interest and finding something else to do. 

I know what I want to achieve. I know what my end goal is. And I know I'll get there eventually. Hopefully. 

But, I fear failure.


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## Oldlady (Sep 18, 2009)

OMG, you are in a bad ENTP pattern. 

Just DO something. That's it. Don't force yourself to do something that's too basic. Go to whatever area interests you.


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## ClockMan (May 11, 2011)

Oldlady said:


> I am about to retake a computer science course. I was thinking about why I did poorly, and I realized - I am worried about infection!
> 
> Every course I take... I feel I am not getting the crystal clear Ti standard of understanding I so desire. It feels like I am being pulled through a survey of the material much too quickly. I want to get EVERYTHING TOGETHER before I move forward.
> 
> ...


Glad you posted this. I've been going through the exact same thing....I feel a little less alone.


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## Figure (Jun 22, 2011)

I think this is the case with all introverted functions - they demand time since they're subjective, and inherently biased to the individual. Because they're directed internally, they don't derive influence from the outside or what is "obvious" on the outside as quickly or clearly as extraverted functions do. 

A lot of times Ti seems as though it pulls things together in a strange but valid way to a Te user - I had ENTP calculus professors who would navigate through problems in almost random ways. It seemed like they were totally full of garbage at first, but somehow the problem would work its way through - again.....somehow. It was extremely difficult to use Ni to interpret patterns, because there simply weren't any to notice. Similar to your situation, it took forever to internalize (I-function) the material to a point of coherence. 

You'll be fine with it, you probably will end up "getting" it in a way that's actually more efficient than the "memorizers."


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## liza_200 (Nov 13, 2010)

Word Dispenser said:


> It's possible. I never really looked at it that way before.
> 
> I remember becoming frustrated time and time again with math teachers. I never got a math teacher that taught me conceptually. I guess it makes sense. Most people seem to work within the concrete world, and 'real' examples.
> 
> ...


I still experience the same. My ENTP sister is the only one who gives me true answers, and yes..sometimes even google. When I ask something about maths (why this happens etc) I generally get the reply as 'cause it's a rule', even I know it's a rule, but why? No answer.


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## Oldlady (Sep 18, 2009)

I still remember 9th grade math, when I asked my teacher whether I should take AB calculus before BC calculus.

"Well, the REALLY smart people like Fang, they can skip ahead to BC calculus."

That implied that I was not good at math.

Strangely enough, he said that I was "one of the hardest workers he had ever known" in my yearbook. I think he thought that because I always looked like I was working. I was not, in fact, doing math, but instead tallying my calories and plotting out my eating disorder. 

It really grinds my gears when people paint me as an SJ. I was extremely quiet in high school, kept to myself and turned in my work for good grades. I guess it makes sense for them to assume that I was that kind of person?


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## Kelvin (May 30, 2012)

Sometimes for me, it's an all-or-nothing mentality. Either I try to master every aspect of that knowledge area, delving deeply into the subject and knowing every single thing or I just don't do it. 

For example, I had problems with spending too much time on psychology classes because I would be playing around and gathering all sorts of theories about one specific thing, looking into their strengths, weakness and how / what angles they explain things in. 

I do enjoy it for the most part, but for a period, I was just so tired of the amount of effort I had put it, I just stopped working. Needless to say, inconsistency


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## Playful Proxy (Feb 6, 2012)

Oldlady said:


> I am about to retake a computer science course. I was thinking about why I did poorly, and I realized - I am worried about infection!
> 
> Every course I take... I feel I am not getting the crystal clear Ti standard of understanding I so desire. It feels like I am being pulled through a survey of the material much too quickly. I want to get EVERYTHING TOGETHER before I move forward.
> 
> ...


Care to help a fellow out? Essentially, I took the route of half-assed learning and now, everything I do has become half-assed. I want my Ti back. I feel like an utter failure. Mind you, I am just getting into college, but you get the drift.


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## MegaTuxRacer (Sep 7, 2011)

LXPilot said:


> I think this is the case with all introverted functions - they demand time since they're subjective, and inherently biased to the individual. Because they're directed internally, they don't derive influence from the outside or what is "obvious" on the outside as quickly or clearly as extraverted functions do.
> 
> A lot of times Ti seems as though it pulls things together in a strange but valid way to a Te user - I had ENTP calculus professors who would navigate through problems in almost random ways. It seemed like they were totally full of garbage at first, but somehow the problem would work its way through - again.....somehow. It was extremely difficult to use Ni to interpret patterns, because there simply weren't any to notice. Similar to your situation, it took forever to internalize (I-function) the material to a point of coherence.
> 
> You'll be fine with it, you probably will end up "getting" it in a way that's actually more efficient than the "memorizers."


Ha! I amaze myself with the ways that I figure stuff out. I will solve a really tough problem, and kind of look back on the insanely round-about way of proving it and kinda think to myself, "OMG wtf did I do?"


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## Ngg (Jul 22, 2010)

I had the exact same problem in college with my engineering classes. With classes like E&M or Fluid Mechanics, I loved reading the theory from the book but we would whiz through the class so fast (E&M is supposed to be 2 semesters but for some reason at Brown they condense it into one) that I barely had time to assimilate it, so I ended up just memorizing equations with a fuzzy understanding of the concepts and proofs behind them. It was a very frustrating experience for me - whereas most other people (which I assume were not xNTP) just kinda used the equations in a plug-and-play manner on the exam without much concern for the underlying theory.

That's when I realized that Physics would have been a better fit for me - being less applied and all.


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## EverSo (Jun 26, 2012)

@Oldlady:
There are few factors to consider here. I don't think you should get discouraged. I think you should remember you only have one semester to master what your professors have been doing for years. I too love to understand things completely, but time in college does not permit so.
Are you good with learning through books? I normally go to class the first few weeks of school to see if the teacher's style of teaching is effective for me. If not, then I go buy that $200 book and it becomes my best friend and I just go to office hours to clarify my own questions. If this subject is something, you are particularly not good at then use the overpowered book and the professor. 
Last, from experience with comp sci classes they are mostly about the thinking process. There normally isn't a right way to do things. If it is a programming class, then I think you should start your work ahead of time and have your teacher help you troubleshoot your program. Make sure that the only problems they fix are syntax errors. If your code doesn't work, have them show you your output with your current code and have you work your way backwards to fix the problem.

Other than that, I wish you luck with this class. It may help to work with a partner and it is okay to think that your teacher is just cray cray (that always makes me feel better). Good Luck!!!! Fighting!


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## Oldlady (Sep 18, 2009)

But you are an... ENTJ.

The troubles are starting now.

I got slightly behind in class. That means I didn't do the reading beforehand (it wasn't posted, but I know that's just an excuse). I couldn't DO the class. I panicked. I was lost and confused. I needed some time to FIGURE THINGS OUT before I put them into practice.

TA: "Do problem #3"

My internal voice: "FUCKKK!!!!! ALL THESE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO SOLVE IT BEFORE I DO!!!!! THE ENTIRE CLASS IS GOING TO RUSH AWAY FROM ME AND I WILL BE LOST AND CONFUSED."

They solve it before me

"FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK WHY DOES EVERYONE ELSE KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON AND I DON'T????!??!!!!!" 

I wind up feeling like a blind person, stumbling around. 

They are going to ask me to do some problem, and I won't be able to do it. They will FORCE me to do a problem I am not even ON. I will be doing problem #2, and they will say, "what's the answer to problem #7?" I will say I don't know, and they will force me to do it anyways. I AM NOT READY. WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT.

I just can't deal with being on a different PAGE than the rest of the class. 

Maybe it's best if I don't go to class. If I just do the work at home, and then turn it in on time. I guess I don't worry about being behind, it's just that when I see them all talking about the intricacies of YADA, when I am deep in the middle of YAK, I feel this pressure to immediately understand YADA. I can't do both YADA and YAK at the same time, but... I feel that I HAVE to. I freak out when someone knows more than I do. I feel vulnerable.

I guess I just need to learn how to say no to things, and to work at my own pace.

Big problem, though:

"I can't read chapter 2, I haven't read 1"
I don't read 1 then 2, I just do nothing
"I can't read chapter 3, I haven't read 1 or 2"
I don't read 1, 2, and 3, I just do nothing

Same problem over and over again.


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## EverSo (Jun 26, 2012)

First. Yes I am an ENTJ, but I have experienced the same terror that you have. I'm still a college student too. I even had one really bad semester, it killed my GPA...sort of. I think that you think I can not relate to you, but I can. I totally understand the whole spiral of getting behind. It is completely overwhelming. Besides, it seems as though difference between our personality types is the last letter.
To make you feel better: I think you should stop comparing yourself to those nerds. I think that will stop you from keeping yourself down. There is nothing wrong with you. I learn at my own speed too! Doesn't make either of us stupid. I think you should look more at it like this: those people cheated. They learn faster or the came into the class with prior knowledge. That no longer qualifies them to be grouped with you.
Now for the class: I need to know your learning intervals and style. By intervals I mean, do you retain more from sitting down for a ridiculously long period of time, or do you prefer to take a break every other hour? By style I mean, do you prefer to read chapters, do problems, learn from notes or use google and in what order?
As far as your teacher goes: I can't stand teachers who call people out and ones that make you do work in front of the class. This whole racing to finish a problem thing; I don't understand it.
If you haven't dropped the class and you have a free weekend. You can still pass it.


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## Oldlady (Sep 18, 2009)

I just tried to catch up with the reading.

Every time I sit down to do it I am overcome... you are behind. Everyone else KNOWS THIS already. You should already know this. Move faster. You need to be where they are.

It's not the material, it's me. I can do it easily when I feel like I am ahead of the class, but once I'm behind, I am overcome with panic. The class is dragging me along.

I am terrified of being the kind of person who actually needs tutoring. I can't... accept that. I can't BE the person who is behind. The one who is not at the top of the class. If I'm not at the top, why am I bothering? 

Needing extra help.

Needing to study.

I can't... DEAL with those things. It's my identity that's at stake here!


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## Oldlady (Sep 18, 2009)

EverSo said:


> Now for the class: I need to know your learning intervals and style. By intervals I mean, do you retain more from sitting down for a ridiculously long period of time, or do you prefer to take a break every other hour? By style I mean, do you prefer to read chapters, do problems, learn from notes or use google and in what order?


No you don't.

It's a case of Ti perfectionism that's psyching me out.


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## EverSo (Jun 26, 2012)

So then the question at hand here, is are you going to give you up being a perfectionist?

All the scenarios I could think of:
1) Your stubborness to keep the trait you so desire will give you the same determination to make sure that you don't lose your identity. You seem really adamant on keeping things the way they are so I'm quite sure that if you don't stress about it for just a moment, you can do it.
2) You can go ahead relieve yourself of that title. You are only human. Perfection is also having the correct flaws.
3) You can do as well as you can, and repress this class as a memory. It never ACTUALLY happened.

I have a question though. Who identifies you this way? Others or yourself?


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