# University? Which and what degree? In need of advice - Study counseling.



## Inheritance (Jul 20, 2014)

Honestly I have given this a lot of thought. But I just can't figure out an answer and I doubt in the competence of my school counselor.

I'm a 1w9 INTJ (or so at least I'm typed) and interests (and skills) includes debating, writing, teaching (holding lectures), analyzing and organizing. Subjects I like are the humanistic ones; theology, psychology, history, political sciences and philosophy. What I envision in the future is me actively engaging in the public sphere. Working in some kind of higher administration e.g. in political parties or the government. 

I don't know much about private and public universities. I prefer private, closer ones where I can have a personal contact with the other students and the lecturers. But then again I don't come from a wealthy family. So I'm not so sure about this option. 

Thus I was considering a public university. Perhaps in northern Europe, thanks to the cheap tuition fees? You see I'm from Finland, so I'd have an easy ticket into these universities. But I'm not certain.

Summary:
- I want to climb the social ladder and engage in politics. *What is the best way to do so? I.e what degree should I study?*
- I like practical philosophy the most and would like to combine it with political sciences. I was considering PPE (= Philosophy, Politics and Economics). *What do you guys think about PPE?*
- Not sure whether to pick a private or public university. *What do you guys think is better for an 1w9 INTJ?* Keep in mind I'm quite poor.
*- What universities do you recommend when it comes to the subjects mentioned above?* Universities in Europe, of course, and especially in Scandinavia.

Thanks!


----------



## emow (Nov 17, 2016)

Find yourself a mentor and figure out what you would like to do it in life. Weigh your options and decide if you want a university degree or not. You need to be inspired! 

Tack tack


----------



## WaffleSingSong (Oct 5, 2014)

To be honest, what universities do more so than preparing you for whatever job you want (you do that part yourself, regardless of you going to Havard, Oxford or whatever BS online college you can go to) is you gain connections with people. I'd say people who are going to be in political related things would be, well, Political Science. I wouldn't know what's the best PolSci programs in Europe, but you can look for yourself and see what you can find. 

Economics is not a bad idea either, and can be useful as your will learn microeconomics (personal economics) as well as macroeconomics (community economics.) An Economics degree is one of the most flexible degrees you can have, so if you have an affinity for it, go ahead and do that.

I don't know if you have Minors in Europe, but in the U.S, Philosophy is seen as the best minor and the worst major you can have. The only job that helps you in getting something with a major is being a teacher of Philosophy, otherwise your going to have to do something with it yourself. Looks damn good as a minor or secondary major though.

Good luck!


----------



## Aladdin Sane (May 10, 2016)

Inheritance said:


> Honestly I have given this a lot of thought. But I just can't figure out an answer and I doubt in the competence of my school counselor.
> 
> I'm a 1w9 INTJ (or so at least I'm typed) and interests (and skills) includes debating, writing, teaching (holding lectures), analyzing and organizing. Subjects I like are the humanistic ones; theology, psychology, history, political sciences and philosophy. What I envision in the future is me actively engaging in the public sphere. Working in some kind of higher administration e.g. in political parties or the government.
> 
> ...


I study in the UK so I cannot give advice about Scandinavian universities, but to answer your questions 



I don't know what grades you have, but the best option here would be to go to a 'posh' university where upper middle class students go, that is if you have the grades to get into one. This is to gain connections because the people who come out of these top universities are the ones who will end up in politics. As for the degree, to be honest, it doesn't matter as much as the university you go to. PPE is great and so is Law or History, Political Science, and anything related, although the most prestigious degree out of these is obviously Law. You will need to get involved in your university's debating / political socities and build your CV and gain as much experience as you can, volunteering and so on, doing all these things will help you get more connections and get further. 

All universities in the UK are public, there are a few fee paying 'private' universities around London which can only be afforded by wealthy people, but these universities are not prestigious and most people haven't heard of them. It is the same in my country (Hungary), there are one or two private universities but they have a reputation for being a rich kids school that bases its selection on your pocket, not on your grades. I have a very high suspicion that it is the same in all EU countries, so if you go to Scandinavia, you don't have to worry about paying for a private university, it doesn't have the prestige like it does in the US or other countries.


----------



## Inheritance (Jul 20, 2014)

Thanks for your informative replies everyone!

But a few questions and information for you:

@WaffleSingSong
PPE (which I considered studying) is a mix of philosophy, political sciences and economics. If so, minoring in philosophy while majoring in economics / political sciences; wouldn't that be you suggest?

@emow
University has always seemed kind of natural for me. Ever since began high school. Questioning it now... I don't know. Kind of gives a studying crisis. What do you mean that I should reconsider if I want a university degree? Any story / information you wish to share with me?

And I do know what I want out of life (although I'd not mind having a mentor, I just don't know where to find one for free). I've limited it down to the following (which I want to combine if possible. But take note that these are simply what I WANT to do, not necessarily what I will come to / be able to do. (1) Being politically active (holding an influence), (2) writing books (fiction or non-fiction; doesn't matter), (3) holding lectures / teaching (I'd like to be a professor), (4) researching subjects of interest, (5) counselling others both psychologically and philosophically; giving advice, (6) being a strategist in the military...

@Aladdin Sane
*Can you elaborate what you mean with 'posh' university? My terminology doesn't include that phrase.* Thanks!

And to answer your question: My grades are in the upper class so I don't think competing for a position will be impossible. But there's one thing I wish to make clear. While my grades from class in sixth form is supreme, I've, however, performed worse when it comes to my matriculation examinations. They aren't /that/ bad, just slightly above average in my country. And knowing I could have performed better thus annoys me. *Does Britain also look at the "grades" or only the "exams"?*

Also, I'm interested in all of the subjects you mentioned above. PPE, Political Sciences, History and Law (in order). But out of these I think that PPE sounds the most fun, at least on paper. I planned on minoring in philosophy (if possible) and perhaps majoring in economy or politics, but I'm not sure yet. If I choose PPE that is. The one I'm least interested in is "law". But that may stem from my ignorance, only knowing what little I do know about these fields.

And I did check up Cambridge and Oxford university on the internet. But from what I saw both of them take about 9 000 as a tuition fee. *So even if they are public, what's the meaning of this?* Did I just misunderstand something?


----------



## xraydav (Jan 3, 2013)

Okay ask yourself the two questions (like I did), what are five things you love doing ? What are five things you are good at?
Do what is in between the answers of these two questions, because later on in life,_ they will match up_. 

(I remember I chose to do Law, after I answered these two questions honestly, and it was stellar, I got into an Honours stream, and I did not even know I could have done that. especially, being an average B-C grade student in my final year of high school due to clinical depression)

If you like politics, and engage in something that is political (i.e. reading political news, articles, making speeches, etc) or bring people together in volunteering or other activities, then please choose Law. As a Law student, it is almost a guaranteed pathway to engaging in parliamentary politics or leadership in a diverse range of fields. (Sometimes, even in sciences)

Don't worry too much about the institution at this point, as even if you don't like the subject (i.e law) or don't like the institution, those are practical matters that many students end up transferring * out of , and going to another university/subject based on. It is possible in many different countries, and uni students do it wherever in the world they are studying.

What is it uniquely that you have been truly *engaged* in during the course of your life? (I want you to think about this question deeply) What activity* in your life have you engaged in, when you did it, nothing else mattered? (Maybe, more than one thing). 
What in your life have you done (an activity i.e. photography, etc) which when you did it, brought others together*? 

If you can answer all these questions I've asked you, you will gain clarity about your self* and understanding of your role over the years, which is equally as important as finding out what to do next.

The time in your life is very confusing, and a unique experience, and when I went through it, and many others did too, it felt like a sandstorm, like I was going to be swept up and place nowhere. However, a year went by, things had to be decided and I made it into Law, did really well, and transferred into a double degree, after answering the second set of questions above. I am glad I did, because I am now studying a subject alongside Law, which has always been a passion of mine, and the pay offs have been personally and academically gratifying. 

You make the degree a worthwhile experience, you can do it as an individual, no matter where you find yourself, you will do well . Just keep your head up, you've already done so much that has shown that you know what to do with your life, and that you are skilled and competent* - that's how you passed all those grade levels in high school, because you are competent enough to do whatever it is you need to do from here. You will make it through this confusing and momentous life change, where it feels like everything is on the line and everything is changing but you don't know where exactly it is changing to, and things can get better. 

I hope this helps in some way. If you want more intensive advice, feel free to PM, I have other questions that can clarify direction and better choices for university and academic study.


----------



## xraydav (Jan 3, 2013)

I would also say the second choice is Political Science or even, International Relations. (although the second is more related to the UN, and international law/political organizations, etc) . Although , above both of these Law, seems to be where the politicians come from, judging from the histories of most in many different parliaments all across the world. Prime ministers and Presidents often have training in Law, I've noticed. Though Political Science is also a second choice, it is more uncommon but not completely absent from Parliaments around the world. For example, Bernie Sanders was a political science student.

Even if you do not get into either of these degrees, if you do well in your degree and seek to engage in your community (whether through volunteering or other social groups), the opportunity to do politics is right there and then. Some politicians come from no training in law or political science, but as they were involved in political or administrative positions in society, or in social groups, they often were elected. (Trump is an exception, while Ronald Reagan, the actor/political activist with no training in Law or any other related field, is proof of this)


----------



## Aladdin Sane (May 10, 2016)

A posh university is just a highly prestigious university that requires top grades and is attended by a large number of 'posh' aka upper middle class people, like Harvard or Oxford and so on.

What UK universities look at are your final grades from high school, so in the US it would be the SAT exams and in the it would be A-levels, every university has information about what qualifications and what grades / which subjects they require to meet the minimum entry requirements to different courses. 

PPE is offered at quite a few universities in the UK and you can do joint degrees where you study two subjects 50/50, so for example Politics and History and so on, and some universities do offer major/minor combinations as well. 

The 9000 pound tuition fee is paid for by the government, but only for British and EU students. If you want to study in the EU for free you are really only looking at the Scandinavian countries cause all other countries have tuition fees, although if you are overseas, I am guessing that even Scandinavian countries will charge a tuition fee, I'm pretty sure it's only free for EU students.


----------



## Aladdin Sane (May 10, 2016)

xraydav said:


> I would also say the second choice is Political Science or even, International Relations. (although the second is more related to the UN, and international law/political organizations, etc) . Although , above both of these Law, seems to be where the politicians come from, judging from the histories of most in many different parliaments all across the world. Prime ministers and Presidents often have training in Law, I've noticed. Though Political Science is also a second choice, it is more uncommon but not completely absent from Parliaments around the world. For example, Bernie Sanders was a political science student.
> 
> Even if you do not get into either of these degrees, if you do well in your degree and seek to engage in your community (whether through volunteering or other social groups), the opportunity to do politics is right there and then. Some politicians come from no training in law or political science, but as they were involved in political or administrative positions in society, or in social groups, they often were elected. (Trump is an exception, while Ronald Reagan, the actor/political activist with no training in Law or any other related field, is proof of this)


Theresa May has a Geography degree, and Margaret Thatcher had a Chemistry degree, so anything is possible.

Also OP, David Cameron did PPE :happy:


----------



## knightlevante (May 26, 2012)

@Inheritance, upon looking at your profile and preferences, I would recommend any courses with more than 50% research component. From your interests and summaries, I already got an impression that you will do well in any research-based courses. Sweden is a country known for creativity and innovation where many world-class researches and researchers from any disciplines gather. Since you're prioritising Scandinavian countries, I think you are on the right track :happy: What's more is that Sweden's courses are tuition-free for Nordic students (Source: scholars4dev's page on list of European tuition-free countries. You said that you are from Finland, which is one of Nordic countries, so, you don't need to pay any tuition). 

If you are looking for a Bachelor degree, I will recommend on studying in the Sweden's leading research university: Lund University, for Political Science/Development Studies program. I'm sure it will benefit you if you want to advance your study. Not only that the program has compulsory Bachelor Thesis that will challenge your analytical abilities, but also permits you to either take your study further or work in government settings. If you want to work after studying, having a Lund University degree and written thesis there will be plus points that people will often seek. 

If you want to continue to Postgraduate degree, or, if you are looking for Master degree, I will recommend either Malmo's Master of Political Science: Global Politics and Societal Change or Uppsala's Master of Peace and Conflict Studies. Malmo's will enable you to constantly update your knowledge base and think dynamically on global socio-political trends occurring each years. I think this Master degree will cater to your PPE interest. On the other hand, Uppsala's will enable you to dig in more specifically on the nature, glassroot of violence and conflicts and why are they seem to be always present in human's life. Given that you have a 9 Enneawing, I decided that I should recommend you Uppsala's Masters.

In regard to financial problems, well, you don't need to worry! Sweden has lots of scholarships to offer to students all over the world, including those that will cover living expenses. In addition, cheap necessities are everywhere in Sweden: It is always cheaper to buy food supplies at markets rather than frozen or restaurant foods. Water is a lot cheaper at market than at bars. 

If you need more assistance, just let me know! :happy:


----------



## Inheritance (Jul 20, 2014)

xraydav said:


> what are five things you love doing


1. Philosophizing (moral philosophy and political philosophy mainly; periodically metaphysics)
2. Debating / discussing / teaching
3. Writing
4. Counselling others
5. Analyzing and system-building (not hard sciences though)



xraydav said:


> What are five things you are good at?


1. All of the above
2. Introspection
3. Objectively judging others
4. Organizing / planning / strategizing
5. Breaking down & explaining complex things to others. Not hard-sciences though.



xraydav said:


> If you like politics, and engage in something that is political (i.e. reading political news, articles, making speeches, etc) or bring people together in volunteering or other activities, then please choose Law.


The only news I read is political news. And I refresh the websites several times per day. And I love making speeches. To me, few things are funnier in school than me alone having the word. I love holding monologues. This is why I like presenting a book I've just read in literature class or to present a philosophical study I've done during philosophy class. And when it comes to discussing political matters, I tend to choose thought provoking ones to stir up a debate. Dialogues and group discussions also work. Though not too huge a group. It tend to make people hold back themselves a little. 

But I don't tend to volunteer and bring people together a lot. This may just be a cultural thing since Finland isn't too big on voluntarism in the sense the UK is. I'm also quite introverted (being an INTJ and all ), so while I hold an interest in people and their behavior, I can only deal with them (in person) for a short duration. Might be different if I met any "different" (which equals interesting) people. But aside from that; I do need quite a lot of alone time to recharge after school. And this is one of the cons of me engaging in politics. But I'd like to see to it anyway. There's blogging to help me and I started one just 2 months ago, although I haven't advertised it too much just yet.



xraydav said:


> Don't worry too much about the institution at this point, as even if you don't like the subject (i.e law) or don't like the institution, those are practical matters that many students end up transferring * out of , and going to another university/subject based on. It is possible in many different countries, and uni students do it wherever in the world they are studying.


But then why apply for Law if I may end up transferring out of it? I understand law is important. And while I'd not mind serving as a lawyer / judge (if that's the direction I take; you see, I don't know what else law studies leads to), I don't find it to be my call. My feelings can't help but tell me that by working as such I've taken the wrong path in life and that I won't ever reach the happiness I seek.



xraydav said:


> What is it uniquely that you have been truly *engaged* in during the course of your life? (I want you to think about this question deeply) What activity* in your life have you engaged in, when you did it, nothing else mattered? (Maybe, more than one thing).


It may be that I haven't thought about it long and hard enough (I'll ponder on it some more after I post this reply), but right now, nothing comes to mind. I don't think there has been a single thing I've burned for to the degree you speak of.



xraydav said:


> What in your life have you done (an activity i.e. photography, etc) which when you did it, brought others together*?


This is also a very hard question. Online I'd say it's starting a clan / guild in some of the games I enjoyed playing back in the days. Or just sharing the same interests in Anime / gaming. This applies to my real life as well. But it's not I who have brought these people together. It has been mutual. I've been brought to them just as much as they have been brought to me. So honestly I don't know. I just meet people and some of them it instantly clicks with, bringing us together, - Ah yes! Academia. That would be something. Studying, teaching others, learning from others, discussing topics, group work. But I haven't been responsible for many of these.



xraydav said:


> I hope this helps in some way. If you want more intensive advice, feel free to PM, I have other questions that can clarify direction and better choices for university and academic study.


Yeah, I'd like to hear more from you. Thanks for your reply!

--------------------



Aladdin Sane said:


> What UK universities look at are your final grades from high school, so in the US it would be the SAT exams and in the it would be A-levels, every university has information about what qualifications and what grades / which subjects they require to meet the minimum entry requirements to different courses.


I see, thanks for clarifying! I had hoped that my grades from the school I attend would also have been taken into account, rather than only my A-levels. Because my grades from class are higher than my current A-levels, although I haven't written all of them yet. But my A-levels are by no means bad. The worst my A-levels are thus far is average. The best ones are a step or two higher than average. But none is in the very top to date. I know schools are different from country to country, but this is how it currently looks for me: 2C (religion, philosophy), 1M (psychology) and 1E (political studies?) from a scale of L-E-M-C-B-A-I (with L being the highest and I the lowest.)



Aladdin Sane said:


> PPE is offered at quite a few universities in the UK and you can do joint degrees where you study two subjects 50/50, so for example Politics and History and so on, and some universities do offer major/minor combinations as well.


But isn't PPE a program of politics, philosophy and economics? Don't I have to choose like 2 of these 3 fields as 50 / 50?



Aladdin Sane said:


> The 9000 pound tuition fee is paid for by the government, but only for British and EU students. If you want to study in the EU for free you are really only looking at the Scandinavian countries cause all other countries have tuition fees, although if you are overseas, I am guessing that even Scandinavian countries will charge a tuition fee, I'm pretty sure it's only free for EU students.


Luckily then, Finland is a part of the European Union (for now at least). So does that mean I'd be able to study there for free?

Edit: Although it may be a different story what would happen to me once England is completely out of EU.

----------
@knightlevante Thanks for your reply as well! I've read through it but I won't answer just yet. Decided to finish my post here for now as I've a few others things to attend to. But I'll get back to you later!


----------



## xraydav (Jan 3, 2013)

Inheritance said:


> 1. Philosophizing (moral philosophy and political philosophy mainly; periodically metaphysics)
> 2. Debating / discussing / teaching
> 3. Writing
> 4. Counselling others
> ...


Oh and that's very intellectual, to have such interests as organizing, planning, etc

What career do you think would match up to or most closely incorporate the 10 things you've listed? The degree is a pathway to that career. 



> _*The only news I read is political news. And I refresh the websites several times per day. And I love making speeches*_. To me, few things are funnier in school than me alone having the word. I love holding monologues. This is why I like presenting a book I've just read in literature class or to present a philosophical study I've done during philosophy class. And when it comes to discussing political matters, I tend to choose thought provoking ones to stir up a debate. Dialogues and group discussions also work. Though not too huge a group. It tend to make people hold back themselves a little.
> But I don't tend to volunteer and bring people together a lot. This may just be a cultural thing since Finland isn't too big on voluntarism in the sense the UK is. I'm also quite introverted (being an INTJ and all ), so while I hold an interest in people and their behavior, I can only deal with them (in person) for a short duration. Might be different if I met any "different" (which equals interesting) people. But aside from that; I do need quite a lot of alone time to recharge after school. And this is one of the cons of me engaging in politics. But I'd like to see to it anyway. There's blogging to help me and I started one just 2 months ago, although I haven't advertised it too much just yet.


That is good! You are very aware of yourself and your experiences but also your interests as an individual. Whatever you end up doing, you would really love either law or political science at university (these two would consistently require either debate (political science often has this) or speeches (law often has this)) . 



That is good that you like to hold speeches with small groups, it means you are a focused person and can approach a topic intensively. This would be really appreciate in law or political sciences. 



> But then why apply for Law if I may end up transferring out of it? I understand law is important. And while I'd not mind serving as a lawyer / judge (if that's the direction I take; you see, I don't know what else law studies leads to), I don't find it to be my call. My feelings can't help but tell me that by working as such I've taken the wrong path in life and that I won't ever reach the happiness I seek.


Don't trust TV and what it suggests Lawyers are like because majorly they are philosophical by nature. They study legal and other philosophy, and that translates into real social and political action. 

All your interests (analysis, psychology, philosophy, making speeches, etc) make up the backbone of law study and also political science study. But moreso, law (as it incorporates aspects of psychology, "making speeches"/oral presentations and philosophy as well). Political science does this too, but does not emphasize the deeper psychological aspects and philosophical aspects of individual behavior (which one would find in topics like criminal law for example). Though, it does emphasize political behavior and psychological inclinations of groups, it is not the same thing. Though, either is a good choice for you, your interests match up more to Law in my view of the situation. 



> It may be that I haven't thought about it long and hard enough (I'll ponder on it some more after I post this reply), but right now, nothing comes to mind. I don't think there has been a single thing I've burned for to the degree you speak of.


It can pay off, but it is good that you are thinking about your education, it means you are an intellectual and open-minded individual. And a dedicated individual, _and I think you will make the right choices whatever degree you end up doing. _ 


> This is also a very hard question. Online I'd say it's starting a clan / guild in some of the games I enjoyed playing back in the days. Or just sharing the same interests in Anime / gaming. This applies to my real life as well. But it's not I who have brought these people together. It has been mutual. I've been brought to them just as much as they have been brought to me. So honestly I don't know. I just meet people and some of them it instantly clicks with, bringing us together, - Ah yes! Academia. That would be something. Studying, teaching others, learning from others, discussing topics, group work. But I haven't been responsible for many of these.


There you go, and asking questions helped you to find answers* here. If you found *teaching to be rewarding and organizing groups of people through clans to be rewarding, try to incorporate these interests in your academic study. For example, both such things are related to groups of people, and management of groups, which are both interests of dedicated lawyers or political science majors. So you've always had that inclination, and should find something which allows you to manifest this interest professionally - you will be more motivated through this. (which is very important)



> Yeah, I'd like to hear more from you. Thanks for your reply!


No worries and if you need any help on anything whether academic or personal in nature, that you want to talk to someone about. I can help counsel you through it (through psychological techniques and training, etc), just PM me any time.


----------



## jsh4 (Nov 13, 2012)

Inheritance said:


> Honestly I have given this a lot of thought. But I just can't figure out an answer and I doubt in the competence of my school counselor.
> 
> I'm a 1w9 INTJ (or so at least I'm typed) and interests (and skills) includes debating, writing, teaching (holding lectures), analyzing and organizing. Subjects I like are the humanistic ones; theology, psychology, history, political sciences and philosophy. What I envision in the future is me actively engaging in the public sphere. Working in some kind of higher administration e.g. in political parties or the government.
> 
> ...



Hey, first of all congrats on being so self-aware  Though, like many of us, be careful not to put yourself in too many boxes and, at this stage, remain open to experimentation and new ideas... what you end up doing might tick some of those boxes, but might not necessarily end up to be what you expected.

Okay, so I agree with what some people have said here about connections - especially in the political world. One thing I would hugely encourage is that you experience what it is like working in the political field, or as close to, so you can feel what it's like and make sure it's something which you'll like doing. A lot of the time, people can have a certain ideas as to what something will be like, spend 3+ years studying and then fining a job, and then really finding out that it isn't for them.

In the political world, it's unlikely that you'll be able to jump straight into it, but have you considered writing to your local MP/councillor? Or getting involved in your party at the local level? All of these things will help you:

A) Get some experience - to see whether you like it and, if you do, help you stand out further down the line
B) Make useful connections - again, if it's the path you choose; you might even find someone who can be your mentor
C) Reduce the risk - of studying and then getting a job which you don't like. This will save time and money! (even if, like you say, the cost in your circumstances isn't too high)

I hope this helps!


----------

