# Do atheists tend to be less bothered about other people (and sometimes very mean)?



## PeterTheGreater (Jan 13, 2012)

Leave aside the stereotypes and the extremes and think about people you actually know ( of ).

I recently noticed that among most of the people I know, it is the atheists who are least bothered about others, less patient in friendly relations and more often than non-atheists tend to be mean and unfriendly as well when it comes to conflicts.

On the other hand, most people whom I know to have some form of religious affiliation, go to church or are at least interested in some form of spirituality (and I really don't mean politically charged religious extremists!), tend to be more forgiving, to look past interpersonal conflicts and/or actually put effort into solving them!

In fact, none of the atheists I know of that I remember right now have ever shown interest into trying to solve conflict.

Have you noticed any of this as well?


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## JoanCrawford (Sep 27, 2012)

Religious people can be very stubborn and defensive. So I tend not to talk about it around them.


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## Geodude (Nov 22, 2009)

I know atheists and religious people, and frankly there's assholes in both camps, and great people in both camps. 

Personally I find atheists are more likely to be open to reasoned discussion around issues of religion (not to say there aren't evangelical atheists...Hello Mr Richard Dawkins). Having said that, given faith is opposed to religion, it is somewhat unfair for atheists to expect religious folk to be able to provide reasoned arguments for their faith. It's kind of like expecting someone to provide a reasoned argument for why they love brocolli, or a reasoned argument for why they think butterflies are pretty.

To me, as long as people are confident in their own beliefs, and happy to allow others to have their own beliefs, then there's no issue.


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## Zster (Mar 7, 2011)

Woof said:


> I know atheists and religious people, and frankly there's assholes in both camps, and great people in both camps.


Brilliantly said! My experience has been one of intolerance, narrow mindedness, and in your face meanness from religious people. The atheists I know personally tend to be open minded, thoughtful, and people oriented, rather than interested in keeping score. The quote, above pretty well sums up the most likely reality. Good and bad in both camps, as there are good and bad in most groups, however one defines them.


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## Sporadic Aura (Sep 13, 2009)

I have 2 very good friends that are atheists. One of them is one of the most polite, thoughtful, nice guys I've ever met. We have been friends since 6th grade and there has never even been one fight, even over a little issue. There is no hyperbole here, he is really one of the most genuinely nice people I've ever met in my life.

My other friend actually grew up in a Jewish family with a very overbearing mother. Growing up he felt like his parents were too controlling and he started questioning his faith because he felt the only reason he was Jewish was because of his parents. He actually went through a phase were he abandoned Juddiasm but was still very spiritual, jumping around into a bunch of different ideas. He might still entertain some spiritual thoughts but if you ask him he will say he is an atheist. He is an extremely emotional dude which means he gets in his share of conflicts, but he usually feels terrible about them and is quick to apologize or forgive. There have been times where I've gotten extremely frustrated with him but he is definitely a good guy.

And finally to look at it from the other side, I actually do have a friend who grew up as a very devout Christian. Although, we've discussed religion and spirituality before and he is a real open minded guy. He is not dismissive or judgmental of anyones viewpoint. He is the type of dude that is well like by almost everyone and it is hard to get mad at him even when he is at fault. He also has a side to him where he knows he is likeable and see's how much he can get away with. Again though, he is another genuinely good guy.

So, in conclusion, based on my personal experiences I have not noticed a similar pattern to you.


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## zynthaxx (Aug 12, 2009)

PeterTheGreater said:


> Leave aside the stereotypes and the extremes and think about people you actually know ( of ).
> 
> I recently noticed that among most of the people I know, it is the atheists who are least bothered about others, less patient in friendly relations and more often than non-atheists tend to be mean and unfriendly as well when it comes to conflicts.
> 
> ...



Frankly I believe this is an indication of a problem in communication rather than an indication that nonbelievers are evil human beings.

My gut feeling - please correct me if I'm wrong - is that T preferrers are overrepresented among nonbelievers, and conversely that F preferrers are overrepresented among believers. I base this on my own experience, which of course is anecdotal, and on type descriptions, for example of the ISFP and INFP types, which are said to be likely to be spiritual.

However, T types are also more likely to communicate the facts straight and to the point, often without following unwritten rules of nicety, while F types are more likely to put value in _how_ they communicate. F types will often "soften the blow" of disagreement by amplifying the parts were they _do_ agree, while T types more often will focus on the actual differences. This, however, is not in any way meant to be taken as an insult, but again, a different way of communicating. 

But @Woof and @Zster said it well. A certain percentage of humans aren't very nice, and you'll find them in all groups. For example, I'd say that killing people or wishing them an eternity in hell for not believing as you do, is more commonly motivated by religion than by a scientific approach to life. Doesn't that pretty much cover not bothering about other people and being very mean?


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

PeterTheGreater said:


> Leave aside the stereotypes and the extremes and think about people you actually know ( of ).
> 
> I recently noticed that among most of the people I know, it is the atheists who are least bothered about others, less patient in friendly relations and more often than non-atheists tend to be mean and unfriendly as well when it comes to conflicts.
> 
> ...


What is your sample rate? 

There are lots of different kinds of theists and atheists. The ones you tend to hear about are the loud ones.


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## Snakecharmer (Oct 26, 2010)

I find the opposite. Most of the religious people I know (Christians, specifically) are what I jokingly call "HypoChristians". They preach about love, acceptance and tolerance, but don't accept homosexuality or atheism, etc...

I'm an atheist, and I'm one of the nicest people I know. I hold doors open for everyone, pay people's tolls, donate money to charity, and on and on...


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## gammagon (Aug 8, 2012)

Most _Christians_ I know are narrow minded dicks. Some are good others not so much. They are bothered by small things and must let their opposition be known, even in not hostile environments. Some are open minded and are yet labeled by the shit other Christians do.

Most _atheists_ I know are narrow minded dicks. Some are good others not so much. They are bothered by small things and must let their opposition be known, even in not hostile environments. Some are open minded and are yet labeled by the shit other atheists do.

They all look the same to me, just with different beliefs.


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## Sonny (Oct 14, 2008)

One's faith or lack thereof is not an indication of their character, nor does it suggest how they will treat people.

As an Enneagram 9 atheist I can assure you my Enneagram style plays a much larger role in how I treat people than my lack of belief in religion or spirituality.


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## SuperDevastation (Jun 7, 2010)

From my experience liberal atheists (and liberals in general) tend to be the most easily bothered.


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## Nessie (Jan 6, 2012)

zynthaxx said:


> Frankly I believe this is an indication of a problem in communication rather than an indication that nonbelievers are evil human beings.
> 
> .....
> But @_Woof_ and @_Zster_ said it well. A certain percentage of humans aren't very nice, and you'll find them in all groups. For example, I'd say that killing people or wishing them an eternity in hell for not believing as you do, is more commonly motivated by religion than by a scientific approach to life. Doesn't that pretty much cover not bothering about other people and being very mean?


zynthaxx, plus one.
I found more tolerant and nicer people Buddhists quite often with their "live and let to live" approach.
Im not Buddhist myself, not my culture, so Im not defending "my camp" at the moment

With big religions based in Old Testament I see in many people, fortunately not all, lower tolerance rate with people of other beliefs (or no belief) and lower level of cooperativeness with them. So I wouldnt say they care more about people. They sometimes care more about "their people": what do I mean is for example offering help like food, education or farmaceutics in condition person who is in receiving end frequent religious lessons, but in the other hand they are accepting sponsor money from non believers:frustrating:. Gives me taste send Christmas cheque rather somewhere else.....


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## DiamondDays (Sep 4, 2012)

I'm an atheist and if you want to talk religion with me i will be a total dick about it. I fucking despise religion to the degree that i actively support anti-religious organizations with both my money and my time.

So yeah i'm totally aggressive and i don't care one single bit about any potential feelings getting hurt in the religious dickheads who get a piece of my mind.


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## Nowhere Man (Apr 22, 2012)

Nah, religious people just tend to be offended over dumb shit that's not even just cause for being offended, because they're not used to having their illogical beliefs called out.


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## Dashing (Sep 19, 2011)

I just want to find out why. My curiosity sometimes gets mistaken for instilling doubt or not respecting their religion. I don't really mind though, live and let live right?


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## Bear987 (May 13, 2012)

I suppose that the idea that atheist are less compassionate springs from the premiss that morality comes from God. As a result, the faithful would be well-informed about compassion (what ought to be) and atheists wouldn't.

I reckon this is a dangerous line of thinking for theists, because if we were to find even one atheist who is compassionate without being religious; that would mean that morality doesn't come from a god, or doesn't have to anyway.

In my experience, compassion has little to do with religion or a lack of religious beliefs - unless compassion is a major component of your religion, which is the case for Jainism for instance. Christians and Muslims on the other hand are well-known for their aggression towards the infidels or heretics. So in some cases - depending on the religion - people are even encouraged to become less compassionate.

An atheist does not have to put up with the unreasonable demands of silly gods. I don't think that causes atheists to become more friendly by default, but unless provoked atheist have less reason to hate others - I would say.


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## SunFlower27 (Sep 29, 2012)

In my experience, no. At least, I don't think it's a matter of belief vs. lack of belief _per se_. Cultural stance, on the other hand, I've seen play a huge role in making cold, nasty dickheads out of people, on both sides (or in attracting those who are already cold, nasty dickheads). There are aggressive atheists and aggressive believers. I have no use for either proselytizing atheists or frankly, the proselytizing Christians who try to force their particular version of the Gospel on me. For a variety of reasons, I don't feel the compulsion to proselytize myself. I don't even talk about religion/spirituality/whatever much, except with people who can discuss it with maturity, and preferably some curiosity about the many sides to the debate. I don't try to convert people unless they're quite close to me, and even then, it's not so much a matter of wanting to convert them as get a clear idea of just where they stand spiritually/morally/philosophically. In any case, I've yet to convert a soul.  I've been told by some that this makes me a bad/lazy Christian. As to heaven and hell, yes, I definitely believe that evil people burn for eternity and I don't give a damn if this offends some of them. I believe good people go to heaven for eternity, but as Jesus said, "Whoever blasphemes against the Son will be forgiven. But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven." That kinda sums it up for me. 

In other words, in my experience, religion doesn't make people good or bad, and neither does the lack of it.

EDIT: Thought I should add that the best people I've come across (excluding myself ) have mostly been either nominally religious/spiritual without practicing anything in particular or agnostics. Not the kind of agnostics who say they're uncertain whether there is a supreme being or not, but the kind who believe there is "something out there" while maintaining that we can't know much of anything about that something. In other words: faith, but no religion.


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## KSKatze (Nov 15, 2012)

It is my belief that empathy has NOTHING to do with religious persuasion


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## Cosmicsense (Dec 7, 2011)

Actually no, the atheists I know of are highly intelligent, and emotionally supportive. I was chatting with a couple of them a month or so ago. One was a confirmed INfJ, and I suspect the other was an ENFJ. They are both outstanding members of the community, in my assessment, and donate to various causes that they believe in.

I find well developed atheists are far superior in their moral reasoning than theists, as they're not so dogmatic and limited in their views. Just my personal experience. Your milage may vary. Oh, and I'm apatheistic, btw.


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## Azure_Sky (Oct 9, 2012)

People are people. Being an Atheist or Religious does not magically make you better or worse. Anyone who claims they are completely good is lying. Humans judge others. This isn't unique with people who are religious.


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## Sanskrit (Feb 6, 2011)

This thread just seems like an invite to bash atheists party. Glad to see it failing.


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## Jamie.Ether (Jul 1, 2011)

It depends on the person. I'm a Christian and know some atheists who act more like Jesus than most people at my church. I also know some atheists who are incredibly selfish and perhaps prefer not believing in a moral code because then they wouldn't feel free to treat people so terribly.


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## zynthaxx (Aug 12, 2009)

Jamie.Ether said:


> prefer not believing in a moral code because then they wouldn't feel free to treat people so terribly.


I don't believe anyone reasons like that. Everyone has a moral code of some sort, but some people's moral codes allow them to apply a different set of rules to themselves than to others. Again, this isn't related to religious affiliation.

But if you talk to a hundred believers - even members of the same congregation - and if they're honest with you, you'll get a hundred different sets of moral codes. Granted, they'll overlap in some areas, but then so will they do almost no matter what group of humans you ask. A majority of people will respect the value of a human life, the property of another human being, or an established relationship between two people.
What you do get in some people, is a questioning of the values of certain moral principles. "What other reasons are there to adhere to a certain rule than the fact that it's written in this book?" Sometimes the rules are arbitrary, filling no function other than creating an us-versus-them mindset in a group. Other times, they are truly beneficial for their followers and the people around them - but in the latter case, they tend to be adopted by a majority of people no matter if they have a religious belief or not. 

I believe most atheists who grew up in religious homes learn to differentiate between these kinds of morals. I'd even like to go further and claim that the difference between group enforced arbitrary morals and generally moral personal values might be one of the strongest motivators to make someone question the validity of their religion.


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## Bear987 (May 13, 2012)

Jamie.Ether said:


> It depends on the person. I'm a Christian and know some atheists who act more like Jesus than most people at my church. I also know some atheists who are incredibly selfish and perhaps prefer not believing in a moral code because then they wouldn't feel free to treat people so terribly.


What do you conclude from your observations? To me it seems like your particular religion apparently doesn't have the power to make people better - more compassionate in this case. What do you think?


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## Bear987 (May 13, 2012)

Azure_Sky said:


> People are people. Being an Atheist or Religious does not magically make you better or worse. Anyone who claims they are completely good is lying. Humans judge others. This isn't unique with people who are religious.


Why go through the trouble of praying and going to Church and so on if your religion doesn't make a difference?


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## Jamie.Ether (Jul 1, 2011)

Bear987 said:


> What do you conclude from your observations? To me it seems like your particular religion apparently doesn't have the power to make people better - more compassionate in this case. What do you think?


I believe that God makes people better. He does so by living in people and changing them from the inside out. God changes people, religion does not. I like the quote, "Going to church doesn't make you a Christian anymore than sitting in a garage makes you a car." I think people can be agnostic or atheist and still have God living in them and working through them, producing goodness, only people have different beliefs and don't always recognize that "thing" or "spirit" in theirself to be God.


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## Jamie.Ether (Jul 1, 2011)

zynthaxx said:


> I don't believe anyone reasons like that. Everyone has a moral code of some sort, but some people's moral codes allow them to apply a different set of rules to themselves than to others. Again, this isn't related to religious affiliation....


Most people don't reason that way. But I was using extreme examples to highlight how people differ from person to person and I believe there are some people out there who are extremely selfish and cruel and find ways to justify their behaviours. This is not the majority of people by any means, But people like that do exist. 
I agree with most other things you said.


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## Nessie (Jan 6, 2012)

DiamondDays said:


> I'm an atheist and if you want to talk religion with me i will be a total dick about it. I fucking despise religion to the degree that i actively support anti-religious organizations with both my money and my time.
> 
> So yeah i'm totally aggressive and i don't care one single bit about any potential feelings getting hurt in the religious dickheads who get a piece of my mind.


 @DiamondDays, despite Im not directly anti-religious (agnostic), I see your opinion like kinda "outbalancing" pressure ppl are facing from noisy or fanatized religious groups. For some reason the noisest and most fanatic are minority groups, but they are having influence which isnt corresponding their poor member base.

Im living in area which is supposed to be populated by most atheistic nation ever (at least according statistics based on ppl self-report). And guess what: throught state are paid expenses needed to cover religious needs of believers (salarys of priests, their education in religion etc.) and nobody asks majority of population, if they really want to pay for preaching of stuff they dont agree with or leaves them indiferent.

Some of religious groups "returns" financial support to the majority company in ways which are really nicey:

For example you could send kid to summer camp without having clue (no declaration about religious beliefs of adult staff members) and when kid returns, youll find out, that in prints from camp is that:

Here are figures with kids names in the damned paper. Those who believe in God are white figures, those who doesnt are painted black. Those who didnt believe before have half of body dark and half of body white. No kid have "former" half of body white and current one dark. I just strongly hope it was coincidence and that no kid converted during summer camp under social pressure indicating that no believers have "black soul" or WTF.

Or other: from state money is supported building of religious places for believers of religions which formerly werent present in this territory. I cant say I really like content of tape which got to public from one of these places: it was about how to make "short process" with non-believers and ppl of other religions (yes, exactly the ones contributing voluntarilly or involuntarilly with their taxes to creation of this place:frustrating.


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## Bear987 (May 13, 2012)

Jamie.Ether said:


> I believe that God makes people better. He does so by living in people and changing them from the inside out. God changes people, religion does not. I like the quote, "Going to church doesn't make you a Christian anymore than sitting in a garage makes you a car." I think people can be agnostic or atheist and still have God living in them and working through them, producing goodness, only people have different beliefs and don't always recognize that "thing" or "spirit" in theirself to be God.


:happy: Thanks for the quote; I like it. I am quite the quotes person - I am a sucker for them actually.

I also like that I can make sense of what you say; we do have different names or conceptualizations (look at me using big words, I hope I am using it correctly) of similar things like intuition or spirit. And I suppose you're right, if there is a god - let's say the Christian one, it would make sense that He is able to work with atheists and agnostics. He wouldn't be much of a God otherwise.

What I agree with is that change comes from within. I like what Jesus said about not worrying about what goes into our mouths, but worry instead about what comes out of it (or us). He strikes me as something of a psychologist - Jesus does, when he says things like that.


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## compulsiverambler (Jan 7, 2010)

Which country's atheists are we talking about?

In Sweden, 80% of the population is atheist, and most of the remaining 20% aren't actually religious i.e. following a specific religion, they just have a vague belief in a "higher being", and/or call themselves Christians because that's what their family's heritage is without actually practising or believing in almost any of the Nicene Creed (traditionally used to define Christians). 

I would imagine, the "average" atheist in Sweden is a very different person to the "average" atheist in places where atheists are a tiny minority. In the USA, it's been found that atheists as a group have a higher average IQ than the general population. I would predict that similar research would find little or no association with IQ in Sweden, because there being an atheist doesn't require the ability to come to a culturally unpopular conclusion about something held as very important by most of the people you love and who raised you.


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## Alysaria (Jul 7, 2009)

There are toxic, negative people in every group, and they will always be the face of that group to those with an opposing opinion. In fact, those kinds of folks seem to thrive on being the center of attention to the detriment of their peers. 

And even the most positive people have bad days that can be turned on them to reflect who they are as a person. 

Frankly, I don't care what a person believes as long as it isn't used as a rationale to be hurtful. Treating someone who doesn't look "the part" of a believer - like a homeless man coming in from the cold, a woman wearing her best dress but it's not as modest as it could be, or a kid with a purple mohawk and piercings - like they are somehow diseased or inferior does not reflect well on a belief that claims to be one of love and acceptance. Likewise portraying oneself as a troll whose only delight is to provoke aggressive reactions from believers doesn't really reflect well on what's supposed to be a representation of logic and critical thinking. (It's one thing to be attacked first and respond in a way that makes the aggressor look foolish - it's entirely something else to go in search of a fight).

Ultimately, there is no solution as long as the "us vs them" mentality exists. If the fans from two opposing sports teams can't be civil to each other, what hope is there for something with built-in controversy and every side can arguably claim moral or intellectual superiority by right of being on that side?


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## TheBlueRainWolf (Sep 28, 2012)

PeterTheGreater said:


> Leave aside the stereotypes and the extremes and think about people you actually know ( of ).
> 
> I recently noticed that among most of the people I know, it is the atheists who are least bothered about others, less patient in friendly relations and more often than non-atheists tend to be mean and unfriendly as well when it comes to conflicts.
> 
> ...


All the atheists I've personally met so far have been the nicest people I've known without being ridiculous or untruthful. But there aren't very many around here.

I don't know what you mean by "they don't try to solve conflict"?


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## Azure_Sky (Oct 9, 2012)

Bear987 said:


> Why go through the trouble of praying and going to Church and so on if your religion doesn't make a difference?


It depends on the individual, but for me, I pray because doing good is enough of a reward within its self. Institutions like churches do not help people better themselves, God does. I may seek to do good, but I will never be completely good. As a Christian, I believe that I am only saved through the grace of God. I don't think I'm worthy of being saved though. I can not logically explain why I even bother. I believe that God make me yearn for him.


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## Bear987 (May 13, 2012)

Azure_Sky said:


> It depends on the individual, but for me, I pray because doing good is enough of a reward within its self. Institutions like churches do not help people better themselves, God does. I may seek to do good, but I will never be completely good. As a Christian, I believe that I am only saved through the grace of God. I don't think I'm worthy of being saved though. I can not logically explain why I even bother. I believe that God make me yearn for him.


What do you then make of people's fascination and reverence for religious leaders like the pope? Why go to Church if institutionalized religion doesn't change people's hearts - like you said?


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## compulsiverambler (Jan 7, 2010)

SuperDevastation said:


> From my experience liberal atheists (and liberals in general) tend to be the most easily bothered.


Again, that depends on the country. A study has suggested that American liberals (as well as atheists) are less happy on average. That's not surprising, because they live in such a right wing country. If all the people you're basing your observation on moved to Western Europe, I guarantee the conservatives would suddenly be the most frustrated with the society they found themselves in, and the liberals would be much happier. 

Equally, in 80% atheist Sweden, I would be very surprised if the theists, or especially those theists who actually have a full-blown religion they believe in or take seriously at all, are any happier than the atheists. They are probably *less* happy, because they're a minority there just as atheists are in your country. Even in my own country, which doesn't have as many _*atheists*_ technically but where the majority of people are by definition non-religious despite believing in some vague notion of a God, I notice no average difference in temperament or mental health between the people who practice a religion and those who don't, except that a higher proportion of the most religious people have significant Enneagram One characteristics. Ones are pretty easily bothered. 

Interestingly, unlike in more religious countries, Sixes here seem to be among the most likely to be very skeptical of religion and cling instead, almost belligerently, to philosophical materialism (which most people think is synonymous with "science", and that's what they more often call it) as the belief system they find comfort and certainty in. Religion is more commonly the domain of Ones, Twos and Fours here.


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## Staffan (Nov 15, 2011)

compulsiverambler said:


> Which country's atheists are we talking about?
> 
> In Sweden, 80% of the population is atheist, and most of the remaining 20% aren't actually religious i.e. following a specific religion, they just have a vague belief in a "higher being", and/or call themselves Christians because that's what their family's heritage is without actually practising or believing in almost any of the Nicene Creed (traditionally used to define Christians).
> 
> I would imagine, the "average" atheist in Sweden is a very different person to the "average" atheist in places where atheists are a tiny minority. In the USA, it's been found that atheists as a group have a higher average IQ than the general population. I would predict that similar research would find little or no association with IQ in Sweden, because there being an atheist doesn't require the ability to come to a culturally unpopular conclusion about something held as very important by most of the people you love and who raised you.


True that. I live in Sweden and atheism is pretty common here, although 80 percent sounds a lot. Anyway, Sweden has always been a generous welfare state and contributed lot of aid to developing countries and most people are conflict avoidant. So overall, most atheists here must be fairly empathic and cooperative. That is also my personal impression.

American atheists are probably more attention whores and thruth-over-harmony types. You just can't get any attention or stir up any conflict by being sacrilegious here. Unless of course you attack Muslims, but atheists worldwide are usually kind and forgiving to those guys for some reason.


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## compulsiverambler (Jan 7, 2010)

Staffan said:


> True that. I live in Sweden and atheism is pretty common here, although 80 percent sounds a lot. Anyway, Sweden has always been a generous welfare state and contributed lot of aid to developing countries and most people.


There are different definitions of atheism, at least in English and I imagine in Sweden there are conflicting ways of defining these things too. Defined the increasingly common way as "lacking a belief in gods", as opposed to "having a belief that there are no gods", the figure will be much higher. I don't know how the research behind that figure divided people up, but I would guess they used one of the broader categorisations. 

Speaking of that, there are also probably personality and cognitive differences between the "lacking belief" group and the so-called "hard atheist" type, *especially* in countries where religion is not a big part of people's lives or in the media very much, because in that environment, lacking belief in gods is something you can do with little or no thought about it required.


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## compulsiverambler (Jan 7, 2010)

Staffan said:


> American atheists are probably more attention whores and thruth-over-harmony types. You just can't get any attention or stir up any conflict by being sacrilegious here.


Haha, that reminds me, I've seen an interview with Bjorn from ABBA, in which he said he expected the Swedish version of "Dancing Queen", to provoke controversy for the line "who needs religions, we can do without them". He was surprised (perhaps disappointed?) that there was no reaction from the public, no one cared. This was the 70s. I doubt the UK would have been much different really, but still, with everything I've learned about the region, how I would love to be Scandinavian...


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## Staffan (Nov 15, 2011)

compulsiverambler said:


> There are different definitions of atheism, at least in English and I imagine in Sweden there are conflicting ways of defining these things too. Defined the increasingly common way as "lacking a belief in gods", as opposed to "having a belief that there are no gods", the figure will be much higher. I don't know how the research behind that figure divided people up, but I would guess they used one of the broader categorisations.
> 
> Speaking of that, there are also probably personality and cognitive differences between the "lacking belief" group and the so-called "hard atheist" type, *especially* in countries where religion is not a big part of people's lives or in the media very much, because in that environment, lacking belief in gods is something you can do with little or no thought about it required.


True. It's also a fact that the "there are no atheists in fox holes" saying can apply to differences in countries too. Scandinavia and Japan are very rich countries with low crime rates. When people feel safe they don't need as much religion.

But Scandinavia is not so hot actually. Sweden has a lot of political correctness and unwritten rules. There is a conformism here, perhaps similar to that of East Asian countries, that is not that funny. Everyone who isn't a centrist social liberal is considered extreme and potentially dangerous.


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## Nessie (Jan 6, 2012)

compulsiverambler said:


> Which country's atheists are we talking about?
> 
> In Sweden, 80% of the population is atheist, and most of the remaining 20% aren't actually religious i.e. following a specific religion, they just have a vague belief in a "higher being", and/or call themselves Christians because that's what their family's heritage is without actually practising or believing in almost any of the Nicene Creed (traditionally used to define Christians).
> 
> I would imagine, the "average" atheist in Sweden is a very different person to the "average" atheist in places where atheists are a tiny minority. In the USA, it's been found that atheists as a group have a higher average IQ than the general population. I would predict that similar research would find little or no association with IQ in Sweden, because there being an atheist doesn't require the ability to come to a culturally unpopular conclusion about something held as very important by most of the people you love and who raised you.


The country we are speaking here is Czech republic.
13,9% of people are declaring themselves as believers of particular religion actually, but atheism/agnosticism have in company historical roots, is not issue of last generation(s), this tendency was publicly declared by political leaders of nation from 19. century and is receipt by majority as normal and equal to any religious belief. Current numbers are changing (in one moment more atheistic was Estonia according EU officials) but overall trend stays over generations.
I never saw from my country "IQ statistics" to meassure IQ of ateists or believers.
As for education of believers: university education is having 7,3%, secondary school with final exam 23,8%, secondary education without final exam38,5% and basic school 29,3%.

Number of believers of traditional faiths and overall number of believers is still decreasing, while number of members of small faiths is increasing.
Overall company is quite well known for religious tolerance and/or indiference to other ppls faiths. Problem starts in the moment, when some part of religious comunity dont share tolerance with other people believes and values (and atheism* isnt *looked at, from part of some religious people, like potential base of values!!!!!). We basically dont have legal resources how to make religiously fanatized people dont spread their ideas in public at great scale. It wasnt expected before, fanatic stuff jumped kind of "out of nowhere". 

What is strongly frustrating is, that part of religious people is seeing discussion about religious topic (controversial issues including) like attack at their religion as such . As an outcome, they are able enforce educational system into making exceptions in education of their own kids (religious freedom) but if you object that you dont want kid from your familly be 3 weeks brainwashed with his "inferiority" due to lack of religion, it is again argumented with religious freedom (theirs, no kids).
I dont understand how in this censored "taboo atmosphere" they imagine solving conflicts or trying to find compromise. Frankly, I have internally solved this topic by putting beliefs and atheism on same value level, which point of view see religious people often like offensive.

I dont think its proper to shut up at the topic how far could religious people go in promoting their values. In fact Im on the side of 13 foreign ambassadors, who wrote to my country protest against promoting of "christian values" by Petr Hajek, member of prezidents office. Core of conflict was, that Hajek was comparing homosexuality to pedofilia, necrofilia etc. and promoting homosexuals are destroing traditional christian familly (sic!). 

Or also people who werent ashamed talk about topic of how far religious people could go in promoting their faith was ICEJ (christian organization), which collected signatures against content of tape, which escaped from one religious place. The content of tape was (between others) 3 hundred years old prophecy about killing Jews.


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## Staffan (Nov 15, 2011)

Nessie said:


> The country we are speaking here is Czech republic.
> 13,9% of people are declaring themselves as believers of particular religion actually, but atheism/agnosticism have in company historical roots, is not issue of last generation(s), this tendency was publicly declared by political leaders of nation from 19. century and is receipt by majority as normal and equal to any religious belief. Current numbers are changing (in one moment more atheistic was Estonia according EU officials) but overall trend stays over generations.
> I never saw from my country "IQ statistics" to meassure IQ of ateists or believers.
> As for education of believers: university education is having 7,3%, secondary school with final exam 23,8%, secondary education without final exam38,5% and basic school 29,3%.
> ...


There is a recent study on religion and intelligence in the journal Intelligence, online here:http://www.midus.wisc.edu/findings/pdfs/1197.pdf It shows very small negative correlations between intelligence and religiosity, around -0.15 which in social science is very shaky since it can be influenced by current events, the weather and other things.


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## Azure_Sky (Oct 9, 2012)

Bear987 said:


> What do you then make of people's fascination and reverence for religious leaders like the pope? Why go to Church if institutionalized religion doesn't change people's hearts - like you said?


I can't really speak on behalf of people that do since I don't go to a religious institution nor do I have a reverence for religious leaders. If you want my opinion, I would say people go to religious institutions because a lot of people have a need be part of a community that shares their interest. Why do people seek and look up to leaders in general? People do so because many follow herd behavior.


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## DiamondDays (Sep 4, 2012)

Nessie said:


> text


Do you perhaps hail from the Czech Republic? It's supposed to be the most atheistic ( non communist ) country on earth, with my own country of Sweden coming in second.

I hear you about insidious religious indoctrination of the youth. It happened to a friend of mine. He's all whacko now. 

We used to have the same situation regarding state support of the church until sometime in the nineties i think when the state divorced the church, hehe. The church still gets money for the upkeep of churches though and the education of the priests is state provided too. Frankly i think it's horrible.


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## Dragearen (Feb 2, 2012)

As someone who lives in an area with a LOT of religious fundamentalism and extremism (on both sides, very religious and very anti-religious), I have seen assholes equally on both sides of the fence. I have met atheists who are just jerks, I've also met religious people the same way. I've also met atheists that are actually pretty cool to hang out with, and some of my best friends are hyper-religious.


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## Young_Simba91 (Feb 26, 2012)

Honestly I think eveyone has a predisposition completely exclusive to their religious beliefs. It goes both ways really which really leads me to believe personality dictates how you treat others. I lean atheist but there is somethng cryptic about existence, so I try very hard to avoid arrogance on the issue.

Atheistic beliefs can just as easily lend itself to a life of virtue. In my case I don't believe in morality as some higher code created by a divine being. I don't need an excuse to treat others well. It's just what's right in my estimation. As an atheist you kind of have to accept the possibility that life just exists of this 80 years or so on Earth. For me, that means trying to make my time here as harmonious as possible. I don't like being treated like shit. I am not going to treat others like shit. Life just isn't enjoyable under those circumstances.

Religion can just as easily lend itself to an evil existence. What other explanation is their for numerous deadly wars fought in the name of God. Thats not to say religous extremists represent all of the devout. But it's the same as generalizing atheists as immoral beings with no convictions. 

Some evil people are religious under the assumption that God will forgive them for them for their transactions. Some atheists use their beilief in an unjudged existence as a justification for evil. Point is, labels have no role in behaviour, it all comes to human nature.


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## Pete The Lich (May 16, 2011)

I am an atheist









:laughing: grumpy cat is also my favorite meme as of right now :crazy:


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## Spades (Aug 31, 2011)

I have evidence as anecdotal as yours that suggests the opposite.


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## ElectricHead (Jun 3, 2011)

From what I've seen, atheists can come off as pompous sometimes but are usually more open and tolerable to others and their ideas and beliefs, although they will try like hell to convince you that you're wrong. If they can't, and as long as the conversation stays civil, they'll wish you well on your merry way and mean it. Most theists like to seem like nice, good people on the surface but can't seem to grasp that others have different beliefs then they and judge them a bit too harshly or are unforgiving toward them in general. Otherwise, those same theists will go out of their way to help, just as long as you are one of them. Using an MBTI analogy, I would guess that atheism would relate similarly to Fi/Ti while theism goes the Fe/Te route and all of it is completely subjective no matter how you want to spin it.


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## William I am (May 20, 2011)

PeterTheGreater said:


> Leave aside the stereotypes and the extremes and think about people you actually know ( of ).
> 
> I recently noticed that among most of the people I know, it is the atheists who are least bothered about others, less patient in friendly relations and more often than non-atheists tend to be mean and unfriendly as well when it comes to conflicts.
> 
> ...


My life revolves around the other people on this planet because I'm an atheist. If not for other people, there's very little point to life - from my perspective. 

I try hard to be friends with people, when I want to be, and I am unbelievably polite and tolerant. Maybe I've just been in college too long (I have), but lately it's been hard for me to relate to people who have the same problems accepting themselves or not dealing with past trauma and personal issues. 

When people actively grate on my nerves, as in every word out of their mouth makes me want to hit them or pull out my hair, then I do my best to avoid them. Even if they talk to me and drive me nuts, I still remain civil.


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## Drift (Oct 30, 2011)

The Atheists that I come across would rather have the world run their way and think that religious people are the problem to peace... 


I just don't understand why people cannot just accept existence and realize that this world was not designed to be perfect. I don't get how people who believe in a God are more problematic than people who do not. You get bitches in both categories so to me the issue isn't about religion as much as it is about individual personalities. So I cannot answer the question of this thread...


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## Bear987 (May 13, 2012)

Drift said:


> to me the issue isn't about religion as much as it is about individual personalities


In my opinion, stating that it's not about religion but about personalities doesn't help. I don't even think it actually means anything. I mean, subscribing to a religion says something about the personality of the individual in question. Much in the same way, being atheist or agnostic expresses something of your (more or less) unique dispositions as well.

If we disqualify our behavior (I see religion as a way of thought-behavior; or a subset of specific thoughts) as a means to identify people by, what will we go on?

I think Hitchens made a decent case highlighting that human's biggest fear is death and our deepest longing is to survive (it) - and religion plays into those fears and longings. Which is why so many people buy into religion. I use the verb 'to buy into' quite literally: think of the Roman Catholic system of Indulgences for instance.


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## Drift (Oct 30, 2011)

Bear987 said:


> In my opinion, stating that it's not about religion but about personalities doesn't help. I don't even think it actually means anything. I mean, *subscribing to a religion says something about the personality of the individual in question. Much in the same way, being atheist or agnostic expresses something of your (more or less) unique dispositions as well.*
> 
> If we disqualify our behavior (I see religion as a way of thought-behavior; or a subset of specific thoughts) as a means to identify people by, what will we go on?
> 
> I think Hitchens made a decent case highlighting that human's biggest fear is death and our deepest longing is to survive (it) - and religion plays into those fears and longings. Which is why so many people buy into religion. I use the verb 'to buy into' quite literally: think of the Roman Catholic system of Indulgences for instance.


Exactly why belief [whether it be in a God or not] cannot correlate to being "less bothered about other people". 
True that there is something to be said in each case but the extent and what more can be said differs with each individual. You cannot generalize all religious people as people of "specific thoughts" when there will be some who do not agree with all of them and some may even believe the opposite of it. Plus, you cannot disqualify human behaviour as human behaviour does action that is stemmed from human thoughts.

[Why so Philosophical?]


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## Bear987 (May 13, 2012)

Drift said:


> Exactly why belief [whether it be in a God or not] cannot correlate to being "less bothered about other people".
> True that there is something to be said in each case but the extent and what more can be said differs with each individual. You cannot generalize all religious people as people of "specific thoughts" when there will be some who do not agree with all of them and some may even believe the opposite of it. Plus, you cannot disqualify human behaviour as human behaviour does action that is stemmed from human thoughts.
> 
> [Why so Philosophical?]


You're right, not all religious people think similar thoughts. However, their religion consists of a number of specific thoughts e.g. Jesus is Lord or Muhammad is prophet #1. Most religions write their dogmas down, so you know what you're subscribing to. In my opinion, religious people think similarly about the solution for the fear of (their) death - as do atheists.


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## Drift (Oct 30, 2011)

Bear987 said:


> You're right, not all religious people think similar thoughts. However, their religion consists of a number of specific thoughts e.g. Jesus is Lord or Muhammad is prophet #1. Most religions write their dogmas down, so you know what you're subscribing to. In my opinion, religious people think similarly about the solution for the fear of (their) death - as do atheists


Ideally, that is how it is meant to be but, as much as I do respect your opinion, it still does not click with how Atheists are "less bothered about other people". I suppose that it can touch on stubbornness when talking about other religious issues but different type of stubbornness can exist in non-religious groups and to similar extents which is why this thread is one that I do not consider capable of being an argument.


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## Bear987 (May 13, 2012)

Drift said:


> Ideally, that is how it is meant to be but, as much as I do respect your opinion, it still does not click with how Atheists are "less bothered about other people". I suppose that it can touch on stubbornness when talking about other religious issues but different type of stubbornness can exist in non-religious groups and to similar extents which is why this thread is one that I do not consider capable of being an argument.


That I agree with of course. Even though what we believe or think are reflections of who we are as a person - atheism isn't based on hatred or disinterest with other people. I reckon it is based on preferring actual over fictional, truth over hearsay and reality over ancient make-believe.

Thanks for saying you respect my opinion, though.


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## Adversary (Dec 5, 2012)

The only thing that makes an atheist is that they don't have a belief in God. People don't choose to be Atheist.


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## Drift (Oct 30, 2011)

Bear987 said:


> That I agree with of course. Even though what we believe or think are reflections of who we are as a person - atheism isn't based on hatred or disinterest with other people. I reckon it is *based on preferring actual over fictional, truth over hearsay and reality over ancient make-believe.*
> 
> Thanks for saying you respect my opinion, though.


The thing about beliefs is that even though it is clearly written down as what it is, what a human does and how it reflects the belief will never be true to what the belief is. While it is not wrong to say that Atheism is not based on hatred or disinterest in other people. It cannot be denied that there are Atheists who are the opposite of that. Ideology and realism never are true to one another when a brain that is capable of thinking for itself is involved.

As for the bold part as much as it is correct [ignoring the undertones that can come with it], it is not one that I can approve of.
I do not think this world has facts of reality because there are still more questions than there are answers. I do believe that we try to understand what is around us but cannot because we are too limited. Atheists will indeed prefer what is already in-front of them as to be the only truth but the human eye cannot see everything nor can the human brain cannot comprehend everything. Those who prefer to put their belief in science baffle me because there are countless examples of how scientific discoveries have had to be changed because the original theory was incorrect. 
At the same time, as much as people like to say that religion is fictional, outdated and, useless, it has had cases where it has proven to be ahead of it's time e.g. NASA discovered a replica of our solar system in 2010/2011 but it was mentioned in the Quran thousands of years. However, there are things there that indeed do not comply with life today.
So is there a complete answer? One that has a complete satisfaction? One that can fit every individuals' needs and wants? No. Perfection does not exist and I regard Atheists as people, like everyone else, who want answers but replace it with the literal, the proven and the "just is".
Knowing where to put your belief is a topic I find interesting... and I apologize for going off in a thinking tangent 




Adversary said:


> The only thing that makes an atheist is that they don't have a belief in God. People don't choose to be Atheist.


To accept or reject is indeed a choice. 
The case is no different when it comes to the topic of religion or any form of belief system.


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## Adversary (Dec 5, 2012)

Drift said:


> To accept or reject is indeed a choice.
> The case is no different when it comes to the topic of religion or any form of belief system.


Atheism is not a rejection or a belief system of any kind. It is simply a lack of belief.


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## Drift (Oct 30, 2011)

Adversary said:


> Atheism is not a rejection or a belief system of any kind. It is simply a lack of belief.


To elaborate: a reasoning of their own chosen belief/conviction is indeed one of choice.

What can be "evidence" or "validity" of religion to one, will not be to an Atheist because it does not comply with the rules or logic that the Atheists lays down: acceptance or rejection


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## Adversary (Dec 5, 2012)

Drift said:


> To elaborate: a reasoning of their own chosen belief/conviction is indeed one of choice.
> 
> What can be "evidence" or "validity" of religion to one, will not be to an Atheist because it does not comply with the rules or logic that the Atheists lays down: acceptance or rejection


Did you not watch the video? Its not a chosen belief. It is the default position. None of us are born with a belief in god. Evidence or validity isn't necessary to have lack of belief in god either.


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## Doll (Sep 6, 2012)

PeterTheGreater said:


> Leave aside the stereotypes and the extremes and think about people you actually know ( of ).
> 
> I recently noticed that among most of the people I know, it is the atheists who are least bothered about others, less patient in friendly relations and more often than non-atheists tend to be mean and unfriendly as well when it comes to conflicts.
> 
> ...



lol.

Nope.

I think you're confusing projected qualities with actual qualities. Most people who are religious will feel morally obligated to embody those qualities on the outside, but that doesn't mean that they genuinely are that way. Atheists don't have the "fear of god" in them, so to speak, and are less likely to put up a front when confronting conflict or issues. However, that doesn't mean that they're less interested in people, are mean/unfriendly, ect. Many religious people (though not all) have a difficult time reconciling their outer image with possible conflicting inner feelings, drives, and negative qualities. These are usually suppressed and/or denied by that person, which results in someone who is less than genuine and sincere about themselves and their motivations.

I have a lot of empathy and sensitivity for other people, and I'm an atheist. I don't think you have to be religiously-affiliated to have these qualities. I also wouldn't consider myself to be an unfriendly person. I act true to myself and my feelings, not because a higher power tells me to do so.


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## Playful Proxy (Feb 6, 2012)

DiamondDays said:


> Not nearly as many as there are theists making theists looking stupid though.


With a higher precentage of theists, that's expected.


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## DiamondDays (Sep 4, 2012)

Signify said:


> With a higher precentage of theists, that's expected.


Yeah, but it would look the same even if atheist were in a large majority. The simple fact that you believe in ghosts and imaginary omnipotent beings make you look stupid.

The fact that there are more theists than atheists in the world is really really scary. At least i live in a country where it's not normal at all to be a believer.


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## Playful Proxy (Feb 6, 2012)

DiamondDays said:


> Yeah, but it would look the same even if atheist were in a large majority. The simple fact that you believe in ghosts and imaginary omnipotent beings make you look stupid.
> 
> The fact that there are more theists than atheists in the world is really really scary. At least i live in a country where it's not normal at all to be a believer.


I'm beginning to see the possibility that "open-minded" could be a double standard for a select few groups of people. (ie: If you are agnostic or atheist, you are open-minded, if not, you must obviously be stupid). But I will warn you that furthering this topic may well derail the thread.


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## DiamondDays (Sep 4, 2012)

Signify said:


> I'm beginning to see the possibility that "open-minded" could be a double standard for a select few groups of people. (ie: If you are agnostic or atheist, you are open-minded, if not, you must obviously be stupid). But I will warn you that furthering this topic may well derail the thread.


I've never aspired to open mindedness on this subject. Religion is stupid. There is absolutely no proof so therefore there is absolutely no reason to believe. 

But that's just religion at large, organized religion isn't just stupid. It's EVIL.


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## DeathRipper (Jan 23, 2013)

DiamondDays said:


> I've never aspired to open mindedness on this subject. Religion is stupid. There is absolutely no proof so therefore there is absolutely no reason to believe.
> 
> But that's just religion at large, organized religion isn't just stupid. It's EVIL.


I can't help but agree with you, but I still don't see a point in arguing over it. Do you really think you're going to convince anybody?


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## DiamondDays (Sep 4, 2012)

DeathRipper said:


> I can't help but agree with you, but I still don't see a point in arguing over it. Do you really think you're going to convince anybody?


No, I'm not delusional. 

That only makes me more passionate about the subject though. It's like the monarchy in my country, I despise it but about 80% love it so i'll never be rid of it. Still i hate it.


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## Raichu (Aug 24, 2012)

PeterTheGreater said:


> Leave aside the stereotypes and the extremes and think about people you actually know ( of ).
> 
> I recently noticed that among most of the people I know, it is the atheists who are least bothered about others, less patient in friendly relations and more often than non-atheists tend to be mean and unfriendly as well when it comes to conflicts.
> 
> ...


Well I do think religion is a good motivation to be nice. Like, if I wanna punch somebody in the eyeball, I'm probably less likely to if I remember that Jesus wouldn't like it. 

I mean, people say stuff like "You shouldn't need religion to do the right thing, you should do it cuz you're a good person, blah blah blah I don't need religion cuz I have a conscience." But let's just be real here, sometimes knowing it's wrong isn't enough motivation. Sometimes knowing it'll hurt their feelings just makes you wanna punch them even more, cuz that's how it works when you're mad. As stupid as it sounds, thinking "what would Jesus do?" can be like really helpful.

And of course, I don't think that all religious people are nice, and that all atheists are jerks. But I do think it makes sense that an individual might try harder to be nice if they have that extra motivation.


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## DeathRipper (Jan 23, 2013)

DiamondDays said:


> No, I'm not delusional.
> 
> That only makes me more passionate about the subject though. It's like the monarchy in my country, I despise it but about 80% love it so i'll never be rid of it. Still i hate it.


It's somewhat better in my country, there's very little of people truly religious, but I really don't mind. I mean, if all religions were to just suddenly disappear right now, chaos would take over the world. I mean, imagine how many of those people don't murder just because they won't end up in heaven or how many of them are too weak to face many things, for instance death as an end or nobody being there for them when they're in the worst hardships of their life. It's just easier to imagine somebody is helping you..


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## DiamondDays (Sep 4, 2012)

DeathRipper said:


> It's somewhat better in my country, there's very little of people truly religious, but I really don't mind. I mean, if all religions were to just suddenly disappear right now, chaos would take over the world. I mean, imagine how many of those people don't murder just because they won't end up in heaven or how many of them are too weak to face many things, for instance death as an end or nobody being there for them when they're in the worst hardships of their life. It's just easier to imagine somebody is helping you..


 I'd had thought that a lot of people would end up not being killed, what with religion not being a motivator for violence anymore. If we could just get rid of nationalism and racism too the world would be a pretty good place. And I don't accept that religion is important for people to behave. I'm staunchly atheist, my country is agnostic over all and we have a pretty low crime rate.


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## DeathRipper (Jan 23, 2013)

DiamondDays said:


> I'd had thought that a lot of people would end up not being killed, what with religion not being a motivator for violence anymore. If we could just get rid of nationalism and racism too the world would be a pretty good place. And I don't accept that religion is important for people to behave. I'm staunchly atheist, my country is agnostic over all and we have a pretty low crime rate.


But some people who are raised like that and didn't snap away from it can't reason like you can. Imagine if your basic morals were taught by the principle "If you do bad, God will punish you." That would mean you'd learn not to do bad only not to receive the punishment. And if somebody said punishment didn't exist anymore.. well, you see where is it going. Of course, most people are with their morals on the right place, even although they're religious, but I guess I'm in one fucked up country.

EDIT: As for the religion being motivator for violence, so is any feel of belonging. You'd need to erase history to erase nationalism. Not that I'm against that one, but that's really impossible.


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## DiamondDays (Sep 4, 2012)

DeathRipper said:


> But some people who are raised like that and didn't snap away from it can't reason like you can. Imagine if your basic morals were taught by the principle "If you do bad, God will punish you." That would mean you'd learn not to do bad only not to receive the punishment. And if somebody said punishment didn't exist anymore.. well, you see where is it going. Of course, most people are with their morals on the right place, even although they're religious, but I guess I'm in one fucked up country.
> 
> EDIT: As for the religion being motivator for violence, so is any feel of belonging. You'd need to erase history to erase nationalism. Not that I'm against that one, but that's really impossible.


Well, the task is hard but it needs to be done. As JFK said when the americans decided to go to the moon "... not because it is easy, but because it is hard... "


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## DeathRipper (Jan 23, 2013)

DiamondDays said:


> Well, the task is hard but it needs to be done. As JFK said when the americans decided to go to the moon "... not because it is easy, but because it is hard... "


You can not change people just like that. I think the best bet is to leave it be and wait for us to become majority. The fact is our numbers have raised extremely in new generations. If someone was even that big of a leader to pull it off it would just ruin everything after that. Whenever the big leader dies people are left confused and would likely go back to being religious, maybe even more.


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## MindSlinger (Jan 18, 2013)

gammagon said:


> Most _Christians_ I know are narrow minded dicks. Some are good others not so much. They are bothered by small things and must let their opposition be known, even in not hostile environments. Some are open minded and are yet labeled by the shit other Christians do.
> 
> Most _atheists_ I know are narrow minded dicks. Some are good others not so much. They are bothered by small things and must let their opposition be known, even in not hostile environments. Some are open minded and are yet labeled by the shit other atheists do.
> 
> They all look the same to me, just with different beliefs.


I started to write a response of my own, then happened to glance up and see this and decided not to bother. 
Well said.


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## FindingPurpose (Jan 22, 2013)

I think religion gives people meaning in their life and a reason (heaven) to be nice which I believe explains why in my experience, people that go to church seem much friendlier than non believers. I mean, if I believed in an everlasting paradise when I die I'd be really fucking happy too and therefore nicer of a person.


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## Devalight (May 27, 2012)

I can't make a broad statement about all atheists. Most atheists I know online. The others - an aunt and a friend's husband, were friendly enough. I haven't met too many, but they were all interesting people to talk with. Many of them are very thoughtful and well mannered.


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