# People with vulnerable Se are unreasonably violent?



## Graveyard (Oct 23, 2015)

FearAndTrembling said:


> There are different kinds of fears that often don't go together. I know men who are not afraid of other men. They will fight. But they are "afraid" of women and other things. They are shy and nervous. They don't pressure people, but they aren't afraid to fight. Then there are the guys who aren't afraid of women at all but very scared of men.
> 
> I remember reading a poll years ago that the average male would rather pick a fight with a bigger guy than approach a woman.


Ah, this is very different. I don't mean to say he was affraid of something specific; he just fears force in all forms. Anything related to standing up. He wouldn't say what he wanted, ever. "Do you want to play Warcraft III with me?", and the look on his eyes clearly said no, but he still agreed. "Wanna eat pizza?", "sure, whatever". I never imposed anything on him - I proposed. But there was not even the most slight shade of resistance. 

And ehm, I'd say that's a cultural thing rather than personality-related.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

nannuky said:


> @soseductive
> 
> That's funny. Socionics is clear about EII's Se and yet you claim something opposite, saying that people whom you suspect of being this type (why? I haven't seen a word of argumentation here) are violent - in a disturbing way. Being an EII myself, I can't imagine hitting a kid (if I ever happen to be a mother, I want to never hit my child, by no means), especially for such a stupid reason like stepping on my foot (and you described it as "punching the shit out" of the kid) - it does seem psychotic, as someone stated earlier, and because of that I don't think it related to the type (especially when they're really EIIs).
> 
> ...


I think this is related to weak Se but it doesn't have to be vulnerable. When vulnerable Se explodes it's extremely violent in ways it's not in lead types. Overuse of force is typical for weak Se in general, including suggestive types.


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## nannuky (Apr 29, 2014)

Entropic said:


> I think this is related to weak Se but it doesn't have to be vulnerable. When vulnerable Se explodes it's extremely violent in ways it's not in lead types. Overuse of force is typical for weak Se in general, including suggestive types.


Any examples, please? On Wikisocion you can read:



> Se as a vulnerable (4th) function (LII and EII): The individual tends to overreact to aggressive or confrontational behavior, taking it as a personal threat when it may only be a knee-jerk reaction or the result of a bad mood.


 - but it doesn't mean reacting in an _psychical_ aggressive way. I'd say, in EII's case this overreacting is about feeling vulnerable, insecure, threatened, and at the same time - helpless (which is crucial, it's the source of the previous three things I've mentioned and the reason for this lack of - so to say - ability to hurt someone psychically). I don't know what would make an EII hit someone, but it definitely wouldn't be a child stomping on their feet, let's be serious.


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## FearAndTrembling (Jun 5, 2013)

nannuky said:


> Any examples, please? On Wikisocion you can read:
> 
> - but it doesn't mean reacting in an _psychical_ aggressive way. I'd say, in EII's case this overreacting is about feeling vulnerable, insecure, threatened, and at the same time - helpless (which is crucial, it's the source of the previous three things I've mentioned and the reason for this lack of - so to say - ability to hurt someone psychically). I don't know what would make an EII hit someone, but it definitely wouldn't be a child stomping on their feet, let's be serious.


Yes, it is like throwing a fucking fit when a cop pulls you over. Responding disproportionately to pressure.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

nannuky said:


> Any examples, please? On Wikisocion you can read:
> 
> - but it doesn't mean reacting in an _psychical_ aggressive way. I'd say, in EII's case this overreacting is about feeling vulnerable, insecure, threatened, and at the same time - helpless (which is crucial, it's the source of the previous three things I've mentioned and the reason for this lack of - so to say - ability to hurt someone psychically). I don't know what would make an EII hit someone, but it definitely wouldn't be a child stomping on their feet, let's be serious.


No it doesn't, but I didn't suggest that either. I wrote violent, but not in what way. It's just poor use of force which was my point.

As an example, look at Ghandi's violence as a result of his nonviolence.


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## soseductive (Jan 5, 2016)

Never was interested in Beatles, but recently received this - Top 10 Unpleasant Facts About John Lennon - Listverse and oh, man! Lennon is a perfect example of what i was talking about. He was even pathological liar! I guess they are IxEs after all.


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## Rabid Seahorse (Mar 10, 2015)

Force and violence aren't the same. You don't necessarily have attack or threaten to attack someone to put pressure on them. 

People with 1-dimensional Se (vulnerable or suggestive) can overreact because they have a hard time gauging how much willpower is necessary to get someone to do their bidding.


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## Jerdle (Dec 30, 2015)

Have you considered that they might be IEE-Fi? This subtype of IEE appears more introverted, but has a strong Se role. I am an example (actually ILE-Ti, but still).


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## Eren Jaegerbomb (Nov 13, 2015)

Forgot how developed my 'SE' is.

But if it helps I'm INFP and can pretty be violent. (Well, not that I've actually acted on it often...)


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## ElusiveFeather (Dec 29, 2016)

soseductive said:


> If someone stepped on your foot, it's not the reason to break his nose and rape him in the butt.


This made me laugh way more than it should have XD


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## Shiver (Nov 10, 2016)

Entropic said:


> As an example, look at Ghandi's violence as a result of his nonviolence.


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## Figure (Jun 22, 2011)

I don't think it makes them violent at all. It's more that they have literally no sense of immediacy or what to do to achieve an ends in a clear way, respond extremely badly to receiving pressure from other people and giving it back, and have trouble announcing themselves or gaining attention. 

Oddly enough, I have met (especially EII) who feel they are extremely strong and assertive, which some people mistake for effectiveness in Se when in fact, they very much have their own concepts of "strength" they talk about but can't actually show. When an actual Se person pressures them, their inability to respond in an equally pressuring way shows up clearly, with the "strength" just being a feeling-concept with little in the way of actual volition. EII will then typically go back to morally denouncing people and LII will correct logic or rationalize, both also scattering onto Ne-related tangents still without actually imposing themselves. An Ni-strong type wouldn't respond with volition either, but instead of going onto tangents would either intentionally engage by provoking the Se person further, or cool them off by downplaying the immediacy. 

Supervision of Se-PoLR types is an area I am very interested to know more about. I once showed an SEE an artistic video from an EII and asked him what he thought of it. His response was positive to the idea, but more critical of the physical theatrics (lights, sound, colors, etc). It was interesting feedback; I'd imagine an SLE would have not even understood what the idea was to begin with and cracked a joke.


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## Mr Oops (Jun 29, 2016)

I have seen violent LII kid. He was so out of touch with world around him to a point it seemed like everything was happening in his private bubble. In fact he was violent hit things (incl. people) and did not comprehend its effects on others. 
He wrote short stories with symbolism twist from the first grade and comprehended instantly everything.
I think this is the purest form of Aspergers described originally by Hans Asperger.

I can say that I was too unsure about the environment which lead to self preserving behavior (defending myself from environmental impact) in my childhood.


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## Cataclysm (Mar 16, 2015)

I think that if you push them beyond their edge, which can take a while, you're going to get most of that aggression projected back at you so they're very aggressive when they eventually are.


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## shazam (Oct 18, 2015)

I was never unreasonably violent but the feeling was definitely there of being walked on. That's why I never really did well in school and lets say with authoritative figures as well. Of course with the nice ones it was lovely, that's one of the reasons I think it's so important to like your teacher. My english teacher was a gent and I would have done anything for him. I'm sure I was the talk of the staff room, I really got attached to my art teacher as well who was cool, we clashed at first and then I really got used to him and got my degenerate pals to like him as well. Then when I had to do an art project he'd let me and my pal smoke in the fire escape... I simply asked him. He said "fine but if you get caught I didn't know about it". I love that trust. 

i just can't stand being looked down on. I've no time for it.


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## L P (May 30, 2017)

FearAndTrembling said:


> It isn't a bad theory. Se is considered how much force to use and one who doesn't know how much force to use could use too much. I think it more manifests in fear of not knowing your own strength. I saw a description of Se polr that included "fear of maiming others". Fear of hurting others for not knowing your own strength.


Thank you, Yes, this. I agree wit OP except I don't think I would every go as far as raping somieone or beating the crap out of ta kid.

I do not know how much force to use and I am not aware of my own strength. So my Se is like an extreme pendulum it either swings WAY to the left (no assertiveness, no intiative, not force or aggresion whatsoever, lack of will), or WAY to the right (childishly and awkwardly over assertive, over aggressive in an embarassing way that can't be taken seriously, over estimation of will power). 

When Se types say shit to me like "Man! Stand up for yourself." if someone is bullying me or making fun of me or pretty much disrespecting me in some way whether it be verbally or physically, my mind immediately thinks of extremely violent over reactions to deal with the disrespect, sometimes I think of just shooting the person to get it over with. Like, my mind goes to the extreme of "standing up for yourself" and I think about how I should seriously damage or hurt the person disrespecting me so they NEVER do it again, but I never do these morbid fantasies because I don't think I am bold or tough enough and that it is VERY unreasonable, but I do not have a balanced view of Se(I actually really hate Se, it is the source of MANY of my problems, lacking it, not understanding it, and other's using it on me), it's always usually an over reaction because I don't know what else to do, sometimes a friend will make a joke about me that I do not like and I sometimes instead of making a comeback I just want to punch them in the face and lay them out, but I know I'm not a tough guy and I would probably be to scared to do it and that's it's an overreaction, but it's what I really want to do though. 






FearAndTrembling said:


> There are different kinds of fears that often don't go together. I know men who are not afraid of other men. They will fight. But they are "afraid" of women and other things. They are shy and nervous. They don't pressure people, but they aren't afraid to fight. Then there are the guys who aren't afraid of women at all but very scared of men.
> 
> I remember reading a poll years ago that *the average male would rather pick a fight with a bigger guy than approach a woman.*


This makes sense, because there is a difference between physical hurt, and emotional hurt. I would rather fight a bigger dude than approach a women, and I do not like fighting, but physical pain goes away, doesn't hurt me ego, and I don't really care of physical pain much.

The approaching the girl can have lasting affects that can damage my ego, self esteem and all that jazz, you can't go the the hospital and fix that up like you could do if you got into a fight.


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## soop (Aug 6, 2016)

The topic seems trollish but the OP seems serious, weird.


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## Lunacik (Apr 19, 2014)

Why is everyone on this thread banned? Lol


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## Daiz (Jan 4, 2017)

I raise my voice when I'm angry and can say some really mean things but that's about as violent as I get.


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