# Intelligent men 'less likely to cheat'



## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

" *Intelligent men are less likely to cheat on their wives because of evolution, a new analysis of social trends indicates.*

Researchers at a British university found that men with higher IQs place greater value on monogamy and sexual exclusivity than their less intelligent peers.
But the connection between conventional sexual morality and intelligence is not mirrored in women, it seems.
The researchers could find no evidence that clever women are more likely than the general population to remain faithful.
The patterns were uncovered by Dr Satoshi Kanazawa of the London School of Economics and Political Science in a paper published in the March edition of the journal Social Psychology Quarterly.
As part of the study he analysed two major US surveys which ascertained the social attitudes and IQs of thousands of teenagers and adults.
He concluded: "As the empirical analysis ... shows, more intelligent men are more likely to value monogamy and sexual exclusivity than less intelligent men."
Dr Kanazawa claims that the correlation between intelligence and monogamy in men has its origins in evolutionary development.
Sexual exclusivity is an "evolutionary novel" quality that would have been of little benefit to early man, who was programmed to be promiscuous, he argues.
The modern world no longer confers such an evolutionary advantage to men who have several sexual partners - but it is only intelligent men are able to shed the psychological baggage of their species and adopt new modes of behaviour
Other "evolutionary novel" qualities that are more common among people of higher intelligence include liberalism and atheism, his study indicated. "

Source: Intelligent men 'less likely to cheat' - Telegraph

This is certainly in line with my own personal experiences. It also made me ruminate on many things I have heard people from the past say about monogamy, people who I always considered to be pseudo-intellectuals, or just simply not very intelligent. They aren't at all exempt from those more "primal urges" or what have you, and they try to make excuses for it, saying thats just how 'all' men are -- I guess as a way of dragging down all other men with them, instead of accepting the fact that there are more evolved men out there. They also seem to have a confirmation bias towards any scrap of "evidence" that supports their claim, while ignoring any other type of research, either scientific or annectodal, that contradicts their views, which again tells me that its not a very intelligent approach, and more of an excuse they are looking for.


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## suwi27 (Dec 31, 2011)

I find it hard to believe the above findings.Life experience for me shows a 50-50 prevalence!


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

A more intelligent man is more likely to think about his actions, to consider the consequences of those actions and to know why he takes (or does not) such an action.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

suwi27 said:


> I find it hard to believe the above findings.Life experience for me shows a 50-50 prevalence!


Dat confirmation bias. ; D


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## changos (Nov 21, 2011)

Why would I cheat on my wife with "her"? I have to be crazy to do so.

_A friend of mine at work was almost stalked by this young hot woman. He was very respectful and kind with her, just that. The thing is as curious as I am, I asked, naively, and he told me that it was stupid to do so, why? because he had 10+ years of marriage and despite his wife not being perfect, she knows him, he could feel concerned and she would know, he could feel ill and she would know. What about the new one? it would be sex, in fact he was confident it was going to be BAD SEX, why? because she can't match or compete with 10+ years of personal and sexual knowledge from his wife. And he added: she would be just a moment, a short experience where after sex she would want more because of what I lived, but I would want out of there, bored, she has very little to bring to the table, really, there is no way to compete with what I am._

- - - - -

All I can say is, most of times, the other person won't really have the chance to know the real person, just part of it, in fact, most of times, a distorted part of the person. Why? because the only source is the guy, and there is no time to share and learn. But those are his words, and I find them really smart, intelligent words.

I wouldn't know about stats (*I agree with the OP stats*), what I mean is pretty sure the discussion would have diff opinions because most would talk about their personal experiences or what they have seen.


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## Ubuntu (Jun 17, 2011)

I could be wrong but I think it's more likely that intelligent men are less likely to cheat because a) they're less likely to be dishonest or deceptive, less likely to behave in a way that they consider to be unethical or disrespectful (whereas less intelligent men will cheat on their wives even if they consider it be wrong and would be outraged if their wives did the same to them), b) less likely to behave impulsively and more likely to consider the long-term consequences of their actions or c) that they're better at covering their tracks than are less intelligent men or are less likely to admit to cheating and not because they're any more likely to value monogamy itself. This study probably did not include men who are in non-deceptive open relationships.

Interestingly, the more intelligent, educated and irreligious women are, the more likely they are to cheat.


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## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

changos said:


> _A friend of mine at work was almost stalked by this young hot woman. He was very respectful and kind with her, just that. The thing is as curious as I am, I asked, naively, and he told me that it was stupid to do so, why? because he had 10+ years of marriage and despite his wife not being perfect, she knows him, he could feel concerned and she would know, he could feel ill and she would know. What about the new one? it would be sex, in fact he was confident it was going to be BAD SEX, why? because she can't match or compete with 10+ years of personal and sexual knowledge from his wife. And he added: she would be just a moment, a short experience where after sex she would want more because of what I lived, but I would want out of there, bored, she has very little to bring to the table, really, there is no way to compete with what I am._
> 
> - - - - -
> 
> All I can say is, most of times, the other person won't really have the chance to know the real person, just part of it, in fact, most of times, a distorted part of the person. Why? because the only source is the guy, and there is no time to share and learn. But those are his words, and I find them really smart, intelligent words.


If I were to write up a small paragraph of why someone might choose not to cheat on their long-term partner with some new tasty fling, I would have written something similar to that. I think that familiarity and a shared history is actually a stronger influence than some realize it could ever be.


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## Super Awesome (Jul 11, 2011)

On the contrary, I think smarter men are less likely to get caught. 

Cynical, moi? Never!


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

Ubuntu said:


> Interestingly, the more intelligent, educated and irreligious women are, the more likely they are to cheat.


I have an idea on that. Women are just catching up to how men used to be. That was worded badly. Anyway, I think its something that happens in phases as culture evolves. Women are more independent that ever before, they have their own careers, their own money, birth control etc., and they are just starting to go through the phase of learning that they -can- have sex with whomever. I don't think it will remain a popular idea though. You can see this phase in psychology in individuals easier than in sociology on a greater scale, I think. As promiscuous people age they sort of go through this, becoming jaded to the idea. Culture collectively has these attitudes, some things just get played out.


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## DustyDrill (May 20, 2011)

Maybe an intelligent man simply realizes that it's just more efficient to have a dedicated partner. Dating and chasing is time consuming and often fruitless. An intelligent man will find someone who he can get along with, and deem the partner project complete. Companionship and sex are now easily accessed. On to other things!


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

changos said:


> Why would I cheat on my wife with "her"? I have to be crazy to do so.
> 
> _A friend of mine at work was almost stalked by this young hot woman. He was very respectful and kind with her, just that. The thing is as curious as I am, I asked, naively, and he told me that it was stupid to do so, why? because he had 10+ years of marriage and despite his wife not being perfect, she knows him, he could feel concerned and she would know, he could feel ill and she would know. What about the new one? it would be sex, in fact he was confident it was going to be BAD SEX, why? because she can't match or compete with 10+ years of personal and sexual knowledge from his wife. And he added: she would be just a moment, a short experience where after sex she would want more because of what I lived, but I would want out of there, bored, she has very little to bring to the table, really, there is no way to compete with what I am._
> 
> ...


That is a pretty good explanation for why the idea could be unappealing. And its true that sex with some random person is just.. not worth it and won't really compare to refined sex with a person you actually have a connection to. Sex with just some person is going to be awkward and regrettable. The way I came upon this article today, was by accident. I was initially researching difficulties that a particular ethnic group has in dating.. I fell down a rabbit hole and ended up here. Anyway, I saw a theme in that research from before, that many men will cheat for a sort of ego boost. I don't think that more intelligent men are as concerned about that particular type of ego boost. He wants to be seen as intelligent, not as the king ape of the pack who can inseminate more females to prove that hes 'still got it' - 'it' being.. some primitive prowess.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

DustyDrill said:


> Maybe an intelligent man simply realizes that it's just more efficient to have a dedicated partner. Dating and chasing is time consuming and often fruitless. An intelligent man will find someone who he can get along with, and deem the partner project complete. Companionship and sex are now easily accessed. On to other things!


Also a good point. A little insight can certainly show someone that quality sure beats quantity in love.


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## Eerie (Feb 9, 2011)

People who cheat are not all unaware of their actions. They know what they are doing, thinking about your actions and giving a shit are two different things entirely and I've been cheated on by some pretty intelligent men.


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

Eerie said:


> People who cheat are not all unaware of their actions. They know what they are doing, thinking about your actions and giving a shit are two different things entirely and I've been cheated on by some pretty intelligent men.


Of course, my post doesn't have the intention of taking any of the blame away from men who do cheat, whether they are intelligent or not.


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## Thomas D M Thompson (Sep 14, 2011)

How about women? I think it takes two to get anywhere with this, at best, hypothesis. How about emotional intelligence?

Also since its a quotient of intelligence, was Sandusky Ohio included along with Bejing and Tokyo?

From my own experience intelligence does lend a lot of advantages to making sound decisions. However I do wonder, how often do intelligent women cheat or get divorced? I'll tell you if both partners are college educated the woman will initiate divorce 90 percent of the time.


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## MuChApArAdOx (Jan 24, 2011)

I could be wrong although i would think intelligent men would be better at scheming and plotting. Crossing all the T's, dotting all the I's. I somehow think most intelligent men who cheat would be more self aware and plan for the long term effects. Personally i don't believe intelligence has anything to do with cheating more or less. The smartest and the dumbest get caught and visa versa.


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## Thomas D M Thompson (Sep 14, 2011)

Interestingly enough, this is a little off topic but has a tangent associated with what is occurring. Women are more likely to commit emotional infidelity than sexual and the opposite is for men.


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## Thomas D M Thompson (Sep 14, 2011)

DustyDrill said:


> Maybe an intelligent man simply realizes that it's just more efficient to have a dedicated partner. Dating and chasing is time consuming and often fruitless. An intelligent man will find someone who he can get along with, and deem the partner project complete. Companionship and sex are now easily accessed. On to other things!


 Do pray tell, how does one find someone to get along with if he doesn't date and chase in a time consuming manner? It obviously isn't fruitless if he finds someone to be with.

Also as a question to the study, does intelligence show lower sexual activity as well?


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## DustyDrill (May 20, 2011)

Thomas D M Thompson said:


> Do pray tell, how does one find someone to get along with if he doesn't date and chase in a time consuming manner? It obviously isn't fruitless if he finds someone to be with.
> 
> Also as a question to the study, does intelligence show lower sexual activity as well?


...

After finding someone compatible an intelligent man stops looking. Cheaters continue to prowl because they're operating on a primal level rather than a logical one. They're walking sperm fountains, not men. At least that's how I see it.


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## viva (Aug 13, 2010)

I didn't need a study to tell me that. ;p "Intelligent" and "cheater" are two characteristics that do not often go hand in hand...


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## Eerie (Feb 9, 2011)

Who said:


> The simple explanation: intelligent men are nerds.


Big difference between intelligent and nerd. And I hardly doubt it's because they are simply settling because they are just too smart and nerdy to do better. In fact if they really were that intelligent, they'd know better.


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## Who (Jan 2, 2010)

Eerie said:


> Big difference between intelligent and nerd. And I hardly doubt it's because they are simply settling because they are just too smart and nerdy to do better. In fact if they really were that intelligent, they'd know better.


 That's why I clarified that that part of my post wasn't serious.


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## Super Awesome (Jul 11, 2011)

Cover3 said:


> Dang it, your kitchen is just as all-seeing as Sauron's tower =o


My ring of power is, in fact, a donut.


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## Cover3 (Feb 2, 2011)

Super Awesome said:


> My ring of power is, in fact, a donut.


and only YOU, have the recipe =O


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## redmanXNTP (May 17, 2011)

I think the answer comes down to economics and risk assessment. This is going to be a rational rational exercise, and let's face it, wealthy men have more to lose in this day and age if they cheat, at least in the Western world. And . . . the average intelligence level of wealthy men is going to be higher. 

In other words, you're going to see a bundle of traits - intelligence, wealth and risk assessment - that all work to discourage infidelity in relationships, especially when they're all seen together.


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## Desolan (Nov 14, 2011)

Eerie said:


> Typology isn't an excuse to make things up about large groups of people. What in the theory of typology indicates certain types are more intelligent than others?


Earlier I stated: xxTx Men are more likely to be further educated and rated as Intelligent people
In review I'll revise this statement: xxTx people are more likely to be further educated in technical fields and rated as intelligent people.

Yes a thinking type does not mean having higher intelligence, but unless I find statistics to prove me otherwise, I will believe my assumption that thinkers will in general *test* as having a higher intelligence than non-thinkers. And since any study checking on an intelligence vs cheating correlation would be using *tested* intelligence level, this would also mean that these proportions could also correlate to a Thinking personality type.


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## Who (Jan 2, 2010)

Desolan said:


> I'll admit I quite likely could be wrong, but I do have some reasons for my guesses:
> 
> Introverts: are not as socially active, and therefore do not get into situations that could lead to cheating as often.
> Thinkers: are not as aware of others feeling, or as interested in the people around them that they would fall for someone as easily.
> Judgers: are not as easy going as perceptives and so may not be as susceptible to advances from others.


 That would be like me saying:

Introverts: not socially active, and therefore do not have to worry about others finding out if they cheat so they have no social life to worry about screwing over
Thinkers: lack empathy and/or a value system that says cheating is wrong, so they have no emotional qualms with it.
Judgers: often like having their partners on a schedule, thus they are easily able to plot cheating time where their chances of getting caught are virtually nonexistent.

As fun as it is to come up with baseless "Type most likely to X" stereotypes, nobody should take them seriously because they can be easily reversed if you try hard enough.


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## Eerie (Feb 9, 2011)

Desolan said:


> Earlier I stated: xxTx Men are more likely to be further educated and rated as Intelligent people
> In review I'll revise this statement: xxTx people are more likely to be further educated in technical fields and rated as intelligent people.
> 
> Yes a thinking type does not mean having higher intelligence, but unless I find statistics to prove me otherwise, I will believe my assumption that thinkers will in general *test* as having a higher intelligence than non-thinkers. And since any study checking on an intelligence vs cheating correlation would be using *tested* intelligence level, this would also mean that these proportions could also correlate to a Thinking personality type.


Your assumption is based on nothing.


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## Super Awesome (Jul 11, 2011)

Cover3 said:


> and only YOU, have the recipe =O


I'll tell you this: It has sprinkles. And chocolate.


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## Desolan (Nov 14, 2011)

Eerie said:


> Your assumption is based on nothing.


My assumption is based on articles that discuss tests on these things. And these articles tend to say that INTJs followed by INTPs consistently make up the greater proportion of the population that test high on IQ tests.

Now it is possible that these articles are wrong or misleading, but short of fully examining their methods and researching them I'll accept it until proven wrong.


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## MuChApArAdOx (Jan 24, 2011)

Desolan said:


> That is what typology is: a way of categorizing people with implied stereotypes associated to them.
> 
> If my using some of these stereotypes to make some generalities offends some of you I apologize, however I personally have difficulty relating to people in terms of feelings. Cheating is a serious topic and I tried to tie the topic back to personality type as it helps me relate to the subject. This is just how I am, blame my type.


No one is offended, besides how can you take offense to something that is laughable. Yes, it made me laugh. Again, i must have said this many times today, i do see the angle you're coming from. So you have difficulties expressing emotion. Just because i can't relate with that doesn't mean i don't grasp or understand it. Instead of trying to be a type, or act a certain way because of said type, try being human first. This is much more attractive after all. 

And don't give us the ole blame my type, its old, not logical or warranted.


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## Eerie (Feb 9, 2011)

Desolan said:


> My assumption is based on articles that discuss tests on these things. And these articles tend to say that INTJs followed by INTPs consistently make up the greater proportion of the population that test high on IQ tests.
> 
> Now it is possible that these articles are wrong or misleading, but short of fully examining their methods and researching them I'll accept it until proven wrong.


And what articles are these?


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## timeless (Mar 20, 2010)

Jung considered feeling and thinking to both be rational functions. No type is "smarter" than any other type, that's a simple misunderstanding of typology.


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## suwi27 (Dec 31, 2011)

People choose to ditch their intelligence when they want to venture into some wrong!


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## infinitewisdom (Jan 23, 2011)

I wonder what John Bobbitts IQ is.


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## Manhattan (Jul 13, 2011)

We should be careful with studies like this. Vegetarians are also more intelligent, but it's most likely a correlation between vegetarians being the type to scrutinize what they eat and think more deeply into issues. (It's not a function of the diet; lack of creatine has been clearly shown to cause vegetarians to be less intelligent than they could be.) Those who drink or use drugs are also more intelligent than their sober counterparts. "Evolutionarily novel" certainly seems to be the key here, but let's keep in mind, especially concerning the drug use point, that novel doesn't always mean beneficial. 

What's really interesting is the gender difference in the study. I'd like an explanation for that. Why does intelligence not affect female likelihood of cheating? Perhaps that open/public monogamy is novel for men, while open monogamy is not novel for women. (Rather, to seek genetic diversity, they'd have to go behind their partner's back.)

Off topic but worth noting: unless we find some acceptable way to passively alter the gene pool, those intelligent men will be overtaken by men that are more likely to irresponsibly breed with multiple partners.


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## SenhorFrio (Apr 29, 2010)




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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

intelligent men, less likely to get caught cheating


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## CoopV (Nov 6, 2011)

Well I was tested to have a high IQ and I definitely don't understand people who spread themselves around. In my case I just think too much about the consequences and risks and then prefer monogamy. Funny thing is alot of guys I know who sleep around like crazy and even may have unprotective sex know the risks but they just don't seem to care. That to me is either low self-esteem or low intelligence or a combination.


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## Apostrophic Catastrophe (Dec 4, 2011)

Less intelligent men more likely to meet women that never get headaches.


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## Thomas D M Thompson (Sep 14, 2011)

redmanXNTP said:


> Maybe you and I are defining "sex" differently, but I'm defining it as the bundle of feelings that go along with the act, not just the act itself. Also, I agree that there are gender differences regarding the role of sex and sexual identity, but there are also broadly common themes and I think overall the level of importance generally is the same, which is to say high, across genders.
> 
> While it's not true for all people, I think most people DO derive affirmation or lack of affirmation about their physical attractiveness (among other things) from sex or inability to have sex, or at least emotionally connected sex. Even demisexuals, while not deriving such affirmation from sex in the proverbial one night stand situation, can view a sexual relationship, once it's formed, as affirmation that they have formed a meaningful emotional bond, the "finish line" for a meaningful relationship if you will.
> 
> Certainly, not all sex can involve an emotional bond - you mentioned sex with prostitutes which is an example - but then prostitutes don't necessarily "just lay there" either, right? Do you suppose the reason for that is that part of their "service" is to act stimulated or satisfied in a way that is sexually affirming to their John?


See the continuation of this discussion at:
http://personalitycafe.com/sex-relationships/80604-how-sex-tied-self-esteem.html
http://personalitycafe.com/sex-rela...gent-men-less-likely-cheat-9.html#post1989499


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## redmanXNTP (May 17, 2011)

[


Ace Face said:


> I think what Thomas was trying to say is that studies can only give us an idea of what might be more possible and less possible in any given scenario. A lot of people seem to think that studies back up a belief as an *absolute* simply because it indicated greater possibility toward one answer. Statistics can be faulty anyway, but especially so when the outcome of the results greatly relies upon humankind's integrity and honesty.





Thomas D M Thompson said:


> If there can be proactive actions that are derived from the study, then it is helpful in a lot of ways. For example, checking how many cars pass on a road to finally decide if it should be paved based on how often it is used by the community. Action is taken place to make the road more enjoyable to individuals all based on a social study of how often people drive on it.
> 
> This however has no implications for people since intelligence stays with you for life and there is no actual means to making it better or worst (yet). And then there is the exception to the rule, which in the former example I gave with regards to roads, has no real exceptions.


Ok, then we're on the same page. 

If you'll notice, I try in my posts to not speak in absolutes when discussing pretty much any topic on this board, and that's true in this thread. I'll discuss general trends or tendencies or concepts, or else my subjective experiences, but I don't tend to state them as if they're universally applicable. 

Sorry for my "cop out" comment as well. That was a bit harsh.


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## Epimer (Mar 21, 2011)

Obviously his research could be flawed.


Then again he also published... “Why Liberals and Atheists Are More Intelligent.”

So maybe not.


:wink::laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## Thomas D M Thompson (Sep 14, 2011)

viva said:


> I didn't need a study to tell me that. ;p "Intelligent" and "cheater" are two characteristics that do not often go hand in hand...


 Dishonest accountants that never got caught maybe?


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## Popinjay (Sep 19, 2011)

I'm not clear from the article...did the guy study two surveys or study two studies? If he studied two surveys where people gave answers (as opposed to were given intelligence tests), my response would be:

1. Very intelligent men are less likely to get caught by their spouses.

2. Very intelligent men are less likely to admit to infidelity in a survey.

3. Very intelligent men are far more likely to exaggerate their IQ in a survey.

= Men with high IQ's cheat less than men with low IQ's

I do find it interesting that a greater number of intelligent women have the courage to admit to their infidelity in a survey.


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## Thomas D M Thompson (Sep 14, 2011)

Popinjay said:


> I'm not clear from the article...did the guy study two surveys or study two studies? If he studied two surveys where people gave answers (as opposed to were given intelligence tests), my response would be:
> 
> 1. Very intelligent men are less likely to get caught by their spouses.
> 
> ...


 This is why a site needs to be made for junk science to put these articles up for scrutiny in the manner that they were conducted. This thread should of never happened. I found the same synopsis.


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## redmanXNTP (May 17, 2011)

Popinjay said:


> I'm not clear from the article...did the guy study two surveys or study two studies? If he studied two surveys where people gave answers (as opposed to were given intelligence tests), my response would be:
> 
> 1. Very intelligent men are less likely to get caught by their spouses.
> 
> ...


Or perhaps intelligence for women has the same positive correllation with wealth in the US that it does for men, however those same wealthy and therefore more financially independent women tend to lack the downside risk associated with affairs (namely, the adverse economic impact of divorce) that men have...


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## Popinjay (Sep 19, 2011)

redmanXNTP said:


> Or perhaps intelligence for women has the same positive correllation with wealth in the US that it does for men, however those same wealthy and therefore more financially independent women tend to lack the downside risk associated with affairs (namely, the adverse economic impact of divorce) that men have...


I don't know...two of my friends' wives are paying alimony and child support to their x-husbands.


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## Apostrophic Catastrophe (Dec 4, 2011)

More intelligent men less likely to want sex.

Edit: I love being retarded.


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## DarkWarrior (Sep 21, 2011)

I solved the problem on page 3 I don't see why there is a discussion


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## Thomas D M Thompson (Sep 14, 2011)

DarkWarrior said:


> I solved the problem on page 3 I don't see why there is a discussion


How do you view polyamorous relationships?


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## DarkWarrior (Sep 21, 2011)

Thomas D M Thompson said:


> How do you view polyamorous relationships?


 There is nothing wrong with it, if the two people or in this case more agree it is fine.

I personally don't want a polyamorous relationship. I want to be with one person and only that person until one of us dies. I'm big on the romance, and I'm deeply loyal to my partner, I would never cheat on her. I couldnt live with the guilt of knowing I hurt someone I care dearly about. 

Anyone who is willing to hurt or risk hurting someone who loves them and they love is a horrible person, I'll just consider them stupid for doing that. 

Cheating is stupid, by doing they are less intelligent lol


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## dagnytaggart (Jun 6, 2010)

Or they realize how easy it is to get caught, especially thanks to technology. And know that while they're smart enough to evade it if they wish, they're also smart enough to do a cost-benefit analysis on their investment of time and determine that being faithful would yield the most reward per unit of "effort".


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## Olena (Jan 2, 2011)

I don't think it's intelligence, I think it's maturity that will determine whether a man will cheat.

Intelligence, for me, is tricky to define. Is it a well-educated man? I have met well-educated people who I would not define as intelligent.

Eh, Idk. I don't bother with determining someone's intelligence by their IQ or level of education. Anywaaaaay...

I believe it is immature men that cheat. Men who lack self-control or respect for their partners. I can understand why they say more intelligent men wouldn't cheat. It implies they think more and are not slaves to their urges but sometimes, cheating is not about sexual urges. It can be about lack of emotional intimacy in a relationship as well.

Humans have more needs than just sex. Unlike animals, we have emotional needs. and stuff. It's why I never understood why people think cheating is strictly just about sex, or why they question why humans don't fuck around. 
When a need isn't fulfilled, we look for it elsewhere, but if we are mature about it, we will discuss our needs with our partners.

As for those 'one time flings', that's just lack of self-control. People are weak sometimes, and they do make mistakes. We are not all perfect.


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## Up and Away (Mar 5, 2011)

Intelligent men might not have admitted cheating. Jk. Cool study.


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## Pachacutie (Aug 27, 2010)

I don't think intelligent men are "better at hiding it". Infidelity seems to always come through and it's a little too arbitrary to say they can "hide it", because how long are they hiding it for? For a few years? Is the SO finding out after they break up? I have a hard time believing it's forever for that many men. It seems to always come out somewhere. And if you're not talking about the SO never finding out about it, then you just can't make a distinction.

Being sneaky isn't really intelligent, in my opinion. I know plenty of idiots that are sneaky. 

I agree with @Olena about it depending upon maturity. Which doesn't mean that immature people are the only ones that fall prey to this kind of behavior, but mature people should know if they're ready for a serious relationship in the first place. Or if they just need to end it. The cost-risk analysis seems to fit. A lot of older fairly equally intelligent couples seem happier, just from what I've noticed. They connect through their brainz, not just their sex organs, hormones, and fear of being alone.


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## Ziwosa (Sep 25, 2010)

Promethea said:


> I have an idea on that. Women are just catching up to how men used to be. That was worded badly. Anyway, I think its something that happens in phases as culture evolves. Women are more independent that ever before, they have their own careers, their own money, birth control etc., and they are just starting to go through the phase of learning that they -can- have sex with whomever. I don't think it will remain a popular idea though. You can see this phase in psychology in individuals easier than in sociology on a greater scale, I think. As promiscuous people age they sort of go through this, becoming jaded to the idea. Culture collectively has these attitudes, some things just get played out.


Soooo how was your experience living as a cave woman? It doesn't make sense for people to "catch up" with something they never were.


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## CoopV (Nov 6, 2011)

Thomas D M Thompson said:


> I never understood why sex, a basic human function, is tied to esteem.


Sex itself isn't but there are many people who are very promiscuous that do it because they want to feel "loved." Or in the case of porn stars many of them were molested or raped when they were younger.

From my experience most of my friends I knew who were highly promiscuous had low self esteem. There can be exceptions to everything but the majority I'd say do. But again I don't mean sex in itself. But when you view yourself as nothing more than a sex object then I think there's something wrong with your esteem.


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## redmanXNTP (May 17, 2011)

Popinjay said:


> I don't know...two of my friends' wives are paying alimony and child support to their x-husbands.


I assure you that that's the exception even in this day and age, and I know a good number of high-earning professional women who are divorced.


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## redmanXNTP (May 17, 2011)

Souled In said:


> Intelligent men might not have admitted cheating. Jk. Cool study.


Yeah, it's a bit hard to intuitively evaluate reporting bias here, and I can't really account for why women would report higher unless it's true as I can't see a reason why women would be inherently more truthful in such a study given its criteria (and obviously it's confidentiality) than would men.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

Ziwosa said:


> Soooo how was your experience living as a cave woman? It doesn't make sense for people to "catch up" with something they never were.


Then you haven't noticed the trends in female sexuality changing, I gather. Its true that women have become more casual about sex, not as repressed for fear of losing their security or getting stuck with a baby.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

Not going to bother quoting everyone who I saw say this as I was skimming, but to address the "hurr they just don't get caught" comments: I addressed this mindset in my original post actually - confirmation bias, and wanting to think -no one- is above it, in order to feel better about it. No one can know for a fact what all people do, as they do not know all people. You can go on your limited experience, but thats only coming from your own perception of your own small environment. I don't believe most men I have known to be cheaters even though I am a critical and suspicious person. So there is simply my own perception in contrast to yours. Which is right? Who cares, lets look at studies instead of personal biases.


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## Olena (Jan 2, 2011)

Ziwosa said:


> Soooo how was your experience living as a cave woman? It doesn't make sense for people to "catch up" with something they never were.


Women are sexual creatures, just like men. We've just been suppressed for ages and now we're finally being allowed to embrace our sexuality and engage in sexual activity freely.

Women have always been looked down on if they enjoy sex. Even now, a promiscuous woman is still scorned but a promiscuous man is not. He's praised. We still hear 'that's just how men are, they need many women'.

Which makes no sense. Women have lower recovery time, stronger orgasms and can fuck longer. It's why in gangbang porn, it's one woman and many men. In a case of many woman and one men, well, he'd cum and then probably have to take a nap.

So of course, women getting touching with their sexuality more, like men, will make them victim to short flings and such.

That's my take anyway.


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## MuChApArAdOx (Jan 24, 2011)

Olena said:


> Women are sexual creatures, just like men. We've just been suppressed for ages and now we're finally being allowed to embrace our sexuality and engage in sexual activity freely.
> 
> Women have always been looked down on if they enjoy sex. Even now, a promiscuous woman is still scorned but a promiscuous man is not. He's praised. We still hear 'that's just how men are, they need many women'.
> 
> ...


heh, well said =))


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## Popinjay (Sep 19, 2011)

redmanXNTP said:


> I assure you that that's the exception even in this day and age, and I know a good number of high-earning professional women who are divorced.


So the courts still favor women in divorce.


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## redmanXNTP (May 17, 2011)

Popinjay said:


> So the courts still favor women in divorce.


Yes, and certainly in child custody matters (especially with young children). Texas is notorious, for example, for favoring the woman. 

While it's more difficult nowadays to get spousal support ("alimony"), you will most certainly get child support if you have primary or sole custody. 

And it's still the norm that the husband is the primary breadwinner, so women are more likely to get alimony than men.


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## Olena (Jan 2, 2011)

redmanXNTP said:


> And it's still the norm that the husband is the primary breadwinner, so women are more likely to get alimony than men.


I've heard of women having to pay alimony. =( Because they were the main providers or earned the most. Or something.

But I think it's rare...? I'm not sure.


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## Where Love Died Laughing (Jan 5, 2012)

Somehow this seems to have strayed a bit from the original topic. 
Anyway, recently I've read lots of ridiculous research. Scientists apparently think that EVERYTHING is related these days.
But, this actually seems to make some sense to me. First of all, I don't think that by "intelligent" they should just consider people with high IQs. Generally, I believe that an "intelligent" person is someone who has developed analytical, cognitive and logical skills developed (in short, someone educated). Less intelligent people tend to think on a more primal level as they often couldn't educate themselves. Therefore, infidelity occurs more often in relationships between "less intelligent" people. Of course, intelligence isn't only defined by one's education, but this is mostly the case.

Also, people tend to think of sexual infidelity as cheating rather than emotional. This is largely based on what you believe sex provides you... if someone thinks it is merely for pleasure, they will be more likely to cheat, I believe. If they see it as a way of bonding emotionally, they will probably stay more faithful to their partners....
Just my take on things.


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## Ziwosa (Sep 25, 2010)

Promethea said:


> Then you haven't noticed the trends in female sexuality changing, I gather. Its true that women have become more casual about sex, not as repressed for fear of losing their security or getting stuck with a baby.


Where did I state or insinuate that it isn't changing?

"Oh because women in the past couldn't do this, I should do it more now to compensate" is what I got from what you said and is what I commented on.




Olena said:


> Women are sexual creatures, just like men. We've just been suppressed for ages and now we're finally being allowed to embrace our sexuality and engage in sexual activity freely.


 Not what I meant.

"something they never were" referred to being a cave woman.


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## PrinceinExile (Dec 29, 2010)

More less likely to get caught >.<


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## Dashing (Sep 19, 2011)

Well, cheating is pretty dumb so kinda obvious.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

PrinceinExile said:


> More less likely to get caught >.<


What evidence do you have to support this theory?


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## PrinceinExile (Dec 29, 2010)

Promethea said:


> What evidence do you have to support this theory?


Experience, only evidence I need


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

PrinceinExile said:


> Experience, only evidence I need


So then in your experience, intelligent men are cheaters and good at hiding it? How many men exactly have you confirmed to be intelligent, cheaters, and successfully hiding it?


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## PrinceinExile (Dec 29, 2010)

Promethea said:


> So then in your experience, intelligent men are cheaters and good at hiding it? How many men exactly have you confirmed to be intelligent, cheaters, and successfully hiding it?



Maybe half a dozen, and I'm sure if you asked other people you'd find very much the same answers, and those half a dozens would add up.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

PrinceinExile said:


> Maybe half a dozen, and I'm sure if you asked other people you'd find very much the same answers, and those half a dozens would add up.


I addressed the issue of confirmation bias in the OP. I also made a post where I said that my personal experience, and in over 15 years of dating, I have not seen the same thing as those who are looking for evidence that men are cheaters. I find this interesting seeing as I also come from a tourist resort where cheating is common. I'm going to have to chalk your opinion up to confirmation bias as well. I also made a point in one of my previous posts that studies mean more to me than ones subjective biases. If a person is looking for something, they will find evidence to support a generalization whether or not that generalization is true. I for one am not ready to say that all men are dishonest and lack integrity. I have more faith in humanity than that.


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## unico (Feb 3, 2011)

I had a boyfriend who was very intelligent and cheated on me and a lot of other girls. However, he has a lot of psychological problems that could partly account for that, I guess.


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## PrinceinExile (Dec 29, 2010)

Promethea said:


> I addressed the issue of confirmation bias in the OP. I also made a post where I said that my personal experience, and in over 15 years of dating, I have not seen the same thing as those who are looking for evidence that men are cheaters. I find this interesting seeing as I also come from a tourist resort where cheating is common. I'm going to have to chalk your opinion up to confirmation bias as well. I also made a point in one of my previous posts that studies mean more to me than ones subjective biases. If a person is looking for something, they will find evidence to support a generalization whether or not that generalization is true. I for one am not ready to say that all men are dishonest and lack integrity. I have more faith in humanity than that.


Some times bias can be right, also isn't your faith in humanity a form of bias as well?


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

PrinceinExile said:


> Some times bias can be right, also isn't your faith in humanity a form of bias as well?


Its a knowledge that the human essence is one that does not seek to sabotage itself in the end. 

And again - I think you should read the rest of this thread more carefully. It does no one any good, not even yourself, to lie down with dogs in a moment of lost hope and claim every man is a dog. Thats just giving up. Its sad to me.


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## PrinceinExile (Dec 29, 2010)

Promethea said:


> Its a knowledge that the human essence is one that does not seek to sabotage itself in the end.
> 
> And again - I think you should read the rest of this thread more carefully. It does no one any good, not even yourself, to lie down with dogs in a moment of lost hope and claim every man is a dog. That's just giving up. Its sad to me.


I'm not saying all, your putting words into my mouth. I'm simply saying I've found intelligent people who cheat of either gender are less likely to be caught/admit it to a study and there for, there is less likely of a chance to study them. Also your thread is based of a single study of a group that is rather small in the grand scheme of things. Also I've personally found most hyper-intelligent people I've meet in life are not monogamous, not all but a good majority I'd say, Because they can get past the idea that it must be a single family relationship, which was drilled into our skull for the past 2000+ years. I don't know where the studying scientists gets the idea that monogamy is recent evolutionary advancement by intelligent people...thats utter hogwash. 

Plus the study is based off IQ which is a very flawed system for judging ones intelligence as doesn't actually view ones ability to learn or capacity to learn, and there for is a poor way to say who is an isn't "intelligent". That's another thing too, it doesn't eve state where they are drawing the intelligence line is it just above average, superior, very superior, genius level? Before I even began to stake such a study seriously I'd need such data and even then I'm not big on "so and so is more or less likely to X." 

Someone once said it I know it's wrongly attributed a lot so I'm not going to guess by who but:


"There are three types of lies in this world; Lies, Damn lies, and Statistics." 

Another thing is the conclusion they draw to is pure speculation which very well could be a total coincidence.


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## traceur (Jan 19, 2012)

changos said:


> Why would I cheat on my wife with "her"? I have to be crazy to do so.
> 
> _A friend of mine at work was almost stalked by this young hot woman. He was very respectful and kind with her, just that. The thing is as curious as I am, I asked, naively, and he told me that it was stupid to do so, why? because he had 10+ years of marriage and despite his wife not being perfect, she knows him, he could feel concerned and she would know, he could feel ill and she would know. What about the new one? it would be sex, in fact he was confident it was going to be BAD SEX, why? because she can't match or compete with 10+ years of personal and sexual knowledge from his wife. And he added: she would be just a moment, a short experience where after sex she would want more because of what I lived, but I would want out of there, bored, she has very little to bring to the table, really, there is no way to compete with what I am._


yes and no. yes those are the thoughts that come up in your head when an oppertunity arrives. but no, that's not a good explenation for the phenomena, because there isn't a single part of it that shouldn't apply to intelligent women, and the phenomena doesn't.



Promethea said:


> I have an idea on that. Women are just catching up to how men used to be. That was worded badly. Anyway, I think its something that happens in phases as culture evolves. Women are more independent that ever before, they have their own careers, their own money, birth control etc., and they are just starting to go through the phase of learning that they -can- have sex with whomever. I don't think it will remain a popular idea though. You can see this phase in psychology in individuals easier than in sociology on a greater scale, I think. As promiscuous people age they sort of go through this, becoming jaded to the idea. Culture collectively has these attitudes, some things just get played out.


this might make sense under a collective mindset, but if you think about indevidual women within the western world living around today, most have lived their entire lives either having or knowing that they can have careers, their own money, birth control etc.

the moment where a woman might go "i can handle the risks of cheating? i couldn't have done so 10 years ago!" has long passed. at best she might go "i can handle the risks cheat? my mother/grandmother couldn't have done so when she was my age!" ...and how does that encourage them to cheat?


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## nakkinaama (Jun 20, 2012)

As much as i want to believe it... I dont think its true.


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## Michael Nihil (Sep 21, 2012)

Wow. Who would've thought?


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## The Proof (Aug 5, 2009)

that's true I'd never cheat, but whether I'm all that intelligent... lol I dunno


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## Blackwing (Nov 5, 2012)

I'm not surprised that the same data does not hold true for women; many extremely intelligent women, especially before the modern century, felt themselves "trapped" (in many ways) by their husband, and would, indeed, cheat if the opportunity came up. Several feminists writings support this idea of personal freedom > monogamy.

In today's world, it is common knowledge that single women are extremely happy, much more so than single men and married people of both genders. There are various reasons for this, but, yeah, intelligent women have shown that they wait later in life to have kids.

Probably because they're busy getting their freak on now


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## android654 (Jan 19, 2010)

This reeks of junk science.


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## WamphyriThrall (Apr 11, 2011)

android654 said:


> This reeks of junk science.


 Never mind: post #8 already covers my thoughts on the issue.


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## android654 (Jan 19, 2010)

WamphyriThrall said:


> Never mind: post #8 already covers my thoughts on the issue.


Yeah, that didn't address anything I said. Still reeks of junk science though. You can't take a survey and call it definitive proof of X. Especially something that no longer hinges solely on biological reasons. People do or don't cheat for psychological and social reasons just as much if not more than biological reasons.


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## WamphyriThrall (Apr 11, 2011)

android654 said:


> Yeah, that didn't address anything I said. Still reeks of junk science though. You can't take a survey and call it definitive proof of X. Especially something that no longer hinges solely on biological reasons. People do or don't cheat for psychological and social reasons just as much if not more than biological reasons.


 Although, I'm not sure how 'proof' would hold up when common sense and logic easily disprove a given premise. Hypothetically, a case study, observation, or some combination of two would have held more weight versus one survey, arguably the method with least reliable results. The media has been long known for sensationalizing science, and given the number of thanks OP received, it's not difficult to see why.


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## qingdom (Apr 5, 2011)

I'm curious... what's the statistics on amount of men and women who cheat as a form of self discovery?

The thought process is, if one person can think this way, there's a plentiful of probabilities there exist another person who feels/thinks the same way.

So for example, for the few men/women who are monogamous and seeking out the same in their significant other, there is an equal other half of men/women who are polygamous and seeking out the same in another person.

Both sides are looking at self discovery in a totally different way, but self discovery nonetheless.

Ego boost or otherwise here is beyond scope.... however, with any relationships, in any relationships, there's a learning process in it altogether. Not learning from it, well... that's as close to whoring oneself for sexual gratification without being called a manslut/slut as one can get.

Choice also plays a factor, but that too is beyond scope of question. Thoughts?


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