# Selfishness and types



## Chora (Jun 4, 2009)

Defining selfishness as being more self-oriented, and motivated in that state towards comfort,
And defining altruism as selflessness, as being more oriented towards the awareness and comfort of others,

Do you think some types may possibly be inherently more selfish than others?

Or do you think that the attribute of selfishness itself is not necessarily related to type?

If the latter, 

Do you think that type does somehow influence the nature of or the expression of that fundamentally equal selfishness? 

Or do you think it's utterly, completely irrelevant?

For me, this is how it works:

I constantly question my selfishness and my altruism alike. I am constantly plagued by the feeling that none of the actions seemingly stemming from either are truly, absolutely, fundamentally grounded in completely genuine sentiments. So I keep questioning myself and my motives, double-guessing myself over and over again until I'm so confused and all over the place, I might as well be a squirrel or a pinecone instead of myself. It's like when you're trying to detect, I dunno, some totally tiny electrons or whatnot and you shoot photons at them, but the totally tiny electrons get bounced away in the process of my attempting to detect their location; I end up with a darkly, shakily delineated formula for the probability of said electron's whereabouts. Of my reality. Whatever. 

I'm sometimes assailed by guilt because I feel like I obfuscate the realities of who people actually are, and limit my perception of them to how I've come to judge them based on my limited experience of them. So even when I genuinely, emotionally feel like I'm acting purely out of altruistic motives, I may actually just be doling out a well-intentioned act of goodwill to someone that is a brainchild of my own concoction, some idealized version of the person that has nothing to do with the actual recipient of that action. But then again, does that render my action itself selfish? Why do I have to feel guilty about being so potentially self-oriented?

The spirals of thought are horrific, especially at night, which is when, I hear, emotional hormones are most actively secreted. 

I think I am selfish because even in my acts of altruism, I'm basically dealing more with someone that means something to me, instead of the actual someone who really is the recipient of my actions in real life. 

I think this is a pretty INXP thing to be. The I makes me inwardly-focused; the N makes me think in abstractions about concrete people; the F or the T make me regard people either emotionally or logically; and the P prevents me from just reacting to people and letting my judgment conclude for itself - the P sends me into these thought spirals, which are dizzying and confusing, and which I believe contribute to the splitting up of the recipient of my actions and my conceptualization of the person.

As opposed to my being relatively selfish even in my altruism, for reasons not unrelated to my type, I can speculate that the altruism of the ESFJ or ESTJ might be much more sensibly genuine and, I dunno, immediate and visceral and.. real somehow. I don't know much about the shadows or the chief functions or things - I'm not so learned in MBTI - but I'd conjecture that the E would make the person more outwardly focused, and the S would keep him or her in tune with the physicality and reality of the recipient of the well-meaning action, and the J would keep the spirals from happening. 

I realize that there has already been a thread on altruism somewhere (I recall stumbling across it; can't find where it is at the moment!) but I wonder: what about selfishness, guys? What's your take on it?


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## matilda (May 21, 2009)

I wouldn't call it selfishness; Ti / Fi may very well be self-centered, but it's Zero External Net Force, so it's harmless, I think.

As long as Ti / Fi is controlled, that is.

Are INFPs/INTPs prone to the "I think I'm special" syndrome?


*Maybe you have well-developed Fe, hence the "guilt".


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## TreeBob (Oct 11, 2008)

I am going to simplify this. I think perceivers are generally selfish more so than judgers.


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## matilda (May 21, 2009)

Extroverted perceivers: ESTP, ESFP, ENTP, ENFP
AND
Introverted judgers: ISTP, ISFP, INTP, INFP

I do think it's an Fi / Ti thing.


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## Chora (Jun 4, 2009)

```
Are INFPs/INTPs prone to the "I think I'm special" syndrome?
```
yeah, I'd say so. but then again, isn't this true for like almost every single human being? I can definately speak for the INFP that we have the 'we are misunderstood' thing going on, and I know INTP's are also vulnerable to this. But generally these sentiments are there for a good reason. Whining can become a habit and this can become a problem though. 
Besides, I think the 'I think I'm special' syndrome is pretty much equatable to the 'I'm such an insignificant nobody, so much worse than anybody else' syndrome. Dunno if you could paint it just one way.


```
Extroverted perceivers: ESTP, ESFP, ENTP, ENFP
AND
Introverted judgers: ISTP, ISFP, INTP, INFP
 
I do think it's an Fi / Ti thing.
```
This is fascinating. Please do elaborate.


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## ChaosRegins (Apr 11, 2009)

*I am somewhat selfish. I try to help others once in a while but it doesn't always go according to plan. When I do the right thing the people close to me are shocked. It's the reputation I've build. *


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## zizabella (Jul 24, 2009)

Yes, I would say that the thought that I am special has crossed my mind more than once. LOL. Then, again, everyone is special, aren't they? One of the most annoying things about being in the education field is standardization of curriculum and testing. I don't know how we are going to get around that. We read about Multiple Intelligence Theory and we try to "differentiate" with our students, but the bottom line is that the teacher to student ratio in schools both public or private is often between 1:20 and 1:3O. That's a lot of personality in one room. LOL. "Cooperative learning" is also very much talked about...How do all of these different personalities learn to live and work together? Like the Dali Lama said, what the world needs most is foregiveness and tolerance...


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## Closet Extrovert (Mar 11, 2009)

I think a lot of people are selfish today. And I think the cause is money.


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## Sachetan (Jul 15, 2009)

I'm often praised for being unselfish among my friends and colleagues but I think the reason for me helping out is more about me liking to solve problems. That's what I'm good at. So there's a selfish reasoning on my part.

But I don't mind being taken as a really nice person :wink:


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## εmptε (Nov 20, 2008)

Yeah, I've been thanked for doing stuff like fixing computers, analyzing people, helping, but I did it all for the challenge. I've also turned down people who presented it without challenge. So now all my friends try to make it sound more challenging than it is when they have a problem.


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## Closet Extrovert (Mar 11, 2009)

Evolyptic said:


> Yeah, I've been thanked for doing stuff like fixing computers, analyzing people, helping, but I did it all for the challenge. I've also turned down people who presented it without challenge. So now all my friends try to make it sound more challenging than it is when they have a problem.


Cool. I've got a couple of things that need fixing...


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## snail (Oct 13, 2008)

I have yet to meet an altruistic ESTJ, so I can only guess what one would be like if he or she weren't selfishly preoccupied with making money regardless of who or what gets harmed in the process, and gaining status through materialistic success, etc. They seem to be very competition-oriented, and competition goes against altruism. At best, I imagine their form of goodness would be a traditional, family-oriented kind of generosity, providing unnecessary levels of luxury and physical security for their immediate associates, but without concern for where the things they provide come from. 

They may feel that it is beneficial to train, punish, or shame others into being "stronger" and more "realistic," and may wrongly consider their bullying an act of altruism designed to help others function better in society.They would try to aggressively eliminate all INFP qualities in others. ESTJs usually believe that vulnerability is the ultimate evil and that selfishness is a virtue, completely ignoring the spiritual implications of such a belief system. Unfortunately, they tend to rise to power more easily than the less aggressively selfish types.

If the least altruistic type is the ESTJ, it would make sense that the type with the most altruistic intentions would be the INFPs. However, we tend not to act on our intentions, so the INFJs might actually come closer to the ideal.


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## Eylrid (Jun 25, 2009)

I have been putting a LOT of thought into this topic. I don't think that how selfish/selfless someone is has anything to do with type. There are both very selfish and very selfless people in all types. I do however believe that type effects how it is expressed, as it effects how most, if not all, things are expressed. Type differences can make people seem more selfish.

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Selfless to selfish spectrum:

1. Conscious intentional selflessness-You choose to do something that benefits someone else more than you, and you know you are doing it.
2. Unconscious selflessness-You are still doing something because it benefits someone else, but you don't give it conscious thought.
3. Incidental selflessness-You do something that benefits someone else, but you don't do it for that reason, or with any thought either way.
4. Incidental selfishness-You do something that benefits yourself, or hurts someone else, but you don't do it for that reason, or with any thought either way.
5.a Unconscious selfishness a -You do something because it benefits yourself, but you don't give it conscious thought.
5.b Unconscious selfishness b -You do something because it hurts someone else, but you don't give it conscious thought
6. Conscious intentional selfishness-You choose to do something that benefits yourself more than others, or intentionally hurts others, and you know you are doing it.
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Type and the appearance of selfishness-

Not understanding someone can lead to (3) incidental selfishness because you hurt someone without even realizing it, even if you are trying to practice (1) conscious selflessness by giving them what you think they want. It can also make (3) incidental selfishness appear as conscious selfishness when they think that you think the same way they do and that you know what they want.

I believe that any two people, regardless of type, can get along IF they are selfless enough AND they have an understanding of each other.

Without understanding, people of "conflicting" types, no matter how selfless, will not get along. If they have access to the resources to learn about each other, through things like type, then those selfless people, because of they care about each other will make the effort to understand each other. They would then be able to "make it."

If either, or both, is too selfish, no matter the type combo, there will eventually be problems.


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## snail (Oct 13, 2008)

That's brilliant, and a lot more useful than my judgmental rant. Thank you for taking the time to seriously consider this topic.


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## WickedQueen (Jun 1, 2009)

Selfish: SP and NT
Arrogance: NF and SJ

...I guess...


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## snail (Oct 13, 2008)

You may be onto something, too. SPs tend to be greedy materialists. NTs tend not to concern themselves with how others feel.

NFs and SJs can both be self-righteous about different kinds of things. NFs are proud when they consider their values superior, and SJs are proud when they consider their actions superior. Often, it comes down to SJs being proud of what they _do_, and NFs being proud of what they _are_, which relies mostly on what they _don't_ do.


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## Closet Extrovert (Mar 11, 2009)

WickedQueen said:


> Selfish: SP and NT
> Arrogance: NF and SJ
> 
> ...I guess...


Ha, I liked your comment about the NFs being arrogant! :happy::tongue::crazy::laughing:


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## Mutatio NOmenis (Jun 22, 2009)

I'm selfish or altruistic depending on pragmatics. If other people are better suited than me, I'll give up for them. If I'm better suited, I'll resource drain them.


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## VenusMisty (Dec 29, 2009)

What do you mean by selfish, though? I think it's different in different situations. A very charitable ESFJ, for example could be acting out of a selfish desire to be seen as some sort of figurehead in the community or something like this. Also I've noticed that the motives behind accusations of selfishness are usually pretty selfish themselves. It usually springs out of a reluctance to conform to the expectations of someone who is used to calling the shots. When someone calls you selfish, always ask what their agenda is, what's in it for them if you believe them.


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## roxtehproxy (Sep 9, 2009)

I suppose this makes me selfish by definition, maybe absent-minded is more accurate though.

Selfish-ness would exist in different forms though, and be exhibited differently in each type.

Perhaps I am self-ish in a sense; being the fact that I'm organizing/manipulating external entities for a higher purpose of mine, and since that astrays from the NP selfishness, this would add to my theory that other types can indeed present selfishness.


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## roxtehproxy (Sep 9, 2009)

TreeBob, perceivers alone cannot be self-ish. You'd have to narrow it down a bit since you're referring to a preferred 'lifestyle' function, not a personality type.


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## VenusMisty (Dec 29, 2009)

It would be unhealthy to be completely selfless. In a sense, Rand was right. Aboslute selflessness would be suicide. A person who demands selflessness would be a misanthrope by definition. People who demand selflessness from women also tend to be rather sexist and misogynistic. Because the end result of that is you giving up your life and turning into a baby making factory. I think honest self-interest is okay. Selflessness can often just be a manipulative veneer for a tyrant.


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## djf863000 (Nov 7, 2009)

I tend to take care of other people first, before my own self. For the longest time, I even had a hard time how to treat myself (what can I do, just for me, kind if thinking). My mind is always like, what can I do for the people I love. I don't know this is just me. I don't always know how to word it that I care for someone, but deep inside I do for a lot of people.

By the way I am ISFP.


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## Vanitas (Dec 13, 2009)

I put myself first; if I didn't, who would?


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## OrangeAppled (Jun 26, 2009)

Chora said:


> Defining selfishness as being more self-oriented, and motivated in that state towards comfort,
> And defining altruism as selflessness, as being more oriented towards the awareness and comfort of others,
> 
> Do you think some types may possibly be inherently more selfish than others?
> ...


As an INFP, I relate to this a lot also. I feel like a very selfish, self-absorbed person a lot of the time, but the fact that it worries me must say something :laughing:. My thoughts are centered on myself, my dreams, my idealism, my creativity, etc. My actions are motivated by my needs, my desires, and my feelings.

Yet, I have an intense desire to be compassionate to people and to offer emotional support, even to the point of allowing their issues to be burdening me mentally and disturbing my own emotional peace. I never saw myself as compassionate until I was friends with an INTP and saw a huge contrast - I was always looking to understand people and give them an "excuse" for their behavior, because they are just human & flawed like me, and he was much more focused on right and wrong and seeing justice enacted. I also thought I was more of a justice-seeker, and I can be, but it's way too easy for me to put myself in other people's shoes and to temper any judgment because of it.

However, I am not a warm person, I am not personable, I am not very friendly, and I am not one to take action to DO nice things for people. My approach is always an emotional/psychological one, and I am able help someone get over their mental demons that hold them back, to comfort them when they are having hard times by simply listening & trying to understand, and to offer imaginative advice when called upon to do so. Again, I never saw this as a trait of mine until one day I realized that TOTAL STRANGERS would find me, confide very personal info and feelings to me, and seek comfort from me. I thought, "why are they telling _me_ this?", and then one day I realized that they must sense on some level that I would give them the response they need, which is mainly to listen and occasionally to gently lead their thoughts to a healthier perspective. Example: I had a middle aged man stop me on the street once and proceed to discuss his recent financial woes and break down into tears. I had only briefly said hello to this man on passing a few times - we had never had a conversation before and he didn't even know my name. This is not an unusual experience for me. Do I have "THERAPIST" tattooed on my forehead or something? :tongue:

So I think that NFP altruism is often different from the SFJ kind, or at least mine is. I look at my mom, who is ISFJ, and she can be the picture of self-sacrifice and nurtuting - she DOES a lot for people, she takes ACTION, and she tries hard to be kind and understanding. She has her way of comforting, but it's different from mine. I never saw myself as a "healer" until I really thought about what that means - it's messy sometimes, it hurts, and it takes time and effort from the receiving party also (they have to be willing). It has less to do with making people feel good then helping them get to a healthy state of mind, a positive emotional realm, and to sort out big issues in their life by thinking of new & more productive ways to approach problem solving. It's entirely in the mind (or figurative heart) basically, and it's often with a long term view instead of immediate benefits. I basically said this in another thread: I'm not one to bring you soup when you're sick, but I'll put my concerns aside to listen to your woes when you need a shoulder to cry on & an outside perspective. :tongue:




TreeBob said:


> I am going to simplify this. I think perceivers are generally selfish more so than judgers.


I agree....if there's going to be a sweeping generalization made, then those with introverted judging would be more likely judge things in light of themselves & their needs, because they're judging with a subjective function that is disconnected to the external (of course, the Pe functions saves the Ji from being totally self-absorbed). However, I don't think this is a type thing. Anyone can be selfish or unselfish, and defining that can be difficult anyway; so much of it is motive.

Some of the most selfish people I have met happened to be INTPs, ENTPs, ISFPs, ENTPs, & ESFPs, but I've met more people of those types who were very unselfish in many ways. I can see the other Ps (incl. NFPs) falling into the same mindset as those individuals also.


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## Zygomorphic (Nov 19, 2009)

Everyone is selfish by nature; altruistic acts make us feel better about ourselves, and thus are still selfish.

However, if we view all humans as an interconnected web; a sum; a synchronization, and act on this perspective, selfishness loses all negative connotation. Selfishness becomes both selfish and altruistic; working in the interest of self, except the meaning of "self" has been blurred into everything. This is true symbiosis.


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## Alice in Wonderland (Sep 7, 2009)

Js appear less selfish because they work for the group, to ensure that established systems are running smoothly and what not so many benifit. Ps are more individualised so they appear more selfish, but they aren't necessarily. I'd say Ps and Js can be equally selfless but in different ways. Ps for example might take huge risks doing what they believe is right that a J type might be less inclined to take. For example, a P might risk their reputation standing up for some one. Ps can appear more selfish by being the center of attention but often Ps see their entertainment as their contributing to the group.


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## Trifoilum (Dec 13, 2009)

Selflessness is not a good thing by itself anyway, so I think everyone in some degree or another, are selfish, but assuming this selfishness is that one that's annoying, irritating, or harming others in a big way.....I think each types would be inclined to be selfish over different things. 

For example from personal tale; INFJ would be more selfish over values and ideals, while INFP; their own dreams and hopes.


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## firedell (Aug 5, 2009)

I feel selfish at times, it may be a Fi thing.


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## Bett (Dec 25, 2009)

First of all I must mention that a distinction should be made between good _selfishness_ (defending yourself and your own rights, taking care of your safety, freedom, wellbeing etc.) and bad selfishness (using others for your advantage or pleasure, acting arrogantly and/or ignorantly towards others). I think lack of _selfishness_ can be just as bad as the presence of selfishness in a person. The way the lack of it hurts others is just more roundabout.
_ 
Selfishness_ is a natural part of the human nature, stemming from the instict and will to survive. It can only waver when the psyche is damaged, an example of which can be seen in the self-harming behaviour of some depressed people. Selfishness on other hand is unneccessary considering a human's survival and is in fact unnatural behaviour, since it can damage others, which isn't a desirable goal to any human in their right mind. People who act and think selfish are often psychologically imbalanced in some way and to some extent.

I think both kinds of selfishness can be found in any human if put under certain circumstances - anyone might start acting selfish when exposed to a certain amount of stress - but certain types can be more prone to each kind of selfishness.

As an INFJ I've noticed that when I'm extremely depressed, my good _selfishness_ easily vanishes. This can lead to me indirectly hurting my loved ones as I allow others to hurt me. I also remember acting very selfish for a longer period of my time once in my life when I was exposed to... an amount of stress no human should be exposed to. But it seriously took a lot to get me to that point, it was truly in extreme circumstances. I can imagine that many would not live at all in the situation I was in - I wouldn't have been either if my loved ones weren't so helpful and understanding.

So from my experience I'd say INFJs are more prone to lack of good _selfishness_, while bad selfishness is very hard to trigger in us. When it happens though, it's horrible. On other hand my ISTP partner can easily get a tiny bit selfish when a practical question is at hand (like, which restaurant to go to), while to make him let go of his _selfishness_ a lot of stress is required. Looking at my friends, I see that imbalanced INFPs can get clearly selfish even with a moderate amount of stress. In the case of INFPs this mostly isn't seen in intentionally hurting others or gaining pleasure, but in being ignorant of other people's feelings and needs. It's soft selfishness, you could say.

I hope my observations will help you find the answer to the question.


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## niki (Dec 2, 2008)

interesting post.

a while earlier, I just posted a similar type of question but in ESTJ forum here, which is practically the shadow function of me (an INFP).
I was being open-minded and actually really curious (instead of hastily formed a judgemental view on them),
and it's (surprisingly) true that the conclusion seems to be that even ESTJ can be pretty "selfless"/altruistic too, but in their _own _way.

I think it's true that each type is capable of being selfish and selfless,
it's a matter of whether they want to learn to understand each other, and be open-minded to learn that "Life isn't all only about *I am* alone", that we are all really interconnected as ONE: a human race, creatures living on a planet called Earth, our Home.


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## DJArendee (Nov 27, 2009)

I accuse myself of selfishness, and actually look like a moron when I try to avoid an act that I personally believe is selfish.

Yet, I don't believe in selfishness or selflessness. I think all types are selfish, because we all want what satisfies us based on our personalities. The problem is, what satisfies some, others may view as selfish. So if an ISTJ marine officer tells me I'm a lazy selfish pilot (happened before), that's because a marine corp ISTJ has satisfied his need for a sense of duty, therefore he has the right to accuse everyone else of being a selfish civilian. An ESTJ may accuse others of being lazy, because we don't want to do work, when ESTJ's are ENERGIZED by work. Its all bullshit. A truly unselfish act would harm yourself and decrease your energy. So if I (ISTP) am cleaning your house, that's pretty damn selfless. If an ESTJ has his trap shut and leaving me alone, that's very selfless.


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## Narrator (Oct 11, 2009)

Zygomorphic said:


> Everyone is selfish by nature; altruistic acts make us feel better about ourselves, and thus are still selfish.
> 
> However, if we view all humans as an interconnected web; a sum; a synchronization, and act on this perspective, selfishness loses all negative connotation. Selfishness becomes both selfish and altruistic; working in the interest of self, except the meaning of "self" has been blurred into everything. This is true symbiosis.


This. Plus what feels good to one feels bad to another. Person A might be sensitive to the feelings of others, so less inclined to put focus on their own comfort and more inclined to focus on other's comfort. Person B might be rather less well connected to the feelings of others...their feeling of well being is more connected with their own immediate wants.

A feeling of well being is what we all want and need. This root need, the person's nature (and upbringing) really - relative to the person - can change how selfish a person can seem.


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## 3053 (Oct 14, 2009)

I'd say ISFPs and ISTPs definitely would be the most selfish of all types in general


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## Seeker (Aug 12, 2010)

Well, so what I want to know is how to we try to avoid types that might take advantage of us if we tend to give a lot to others. Certain of us may have a tendency to give and give and give, and then we find that we have nothing left for ourselves. But if we surround ourselves with others who are doing the same, then we're all good. How do we surround ourselves with those types?


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## Linnifae (Nov 13, 2009)

Sometimes I do things for people just so they won't be mad at me, but I'd rather not be doing it. That seems rather selfish to me. I would think a truly "pure" motive would be to do something for the benefit it gives others rather than the inconvenience _not_ doing so would give _you_....


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## sharoni21 (Nov 3, 2010)

ESFJ family members... my sister is terrible at sharing always has been.
anybody that says an ISTP is selfish... BULLSHIT. 
you either don't know them well enough or are confused because you ask for something we CAN'T give you
I always give things without asking for anything in return. I'm helpful as long as you don't NAG me. 
oh and I don't like giving you my food especially if it's candy I WILL however go buy you one of your own.


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## Linnifae (Nov 13, 2009)

sharoni21 said:


> ESFJ family members... my sister is terrible at sharing always has been.
> anybody that says an ISTP is selfish... BULLSHIT.
> you either don't know them well enough or are confused because you ask for something we CAN'T give you
> I always give things without asking for anything in return. I'm helpful as long as you don't NAG me.
> oh and I don't like giving you my food especially if it's candy I WILL however go buy you one of your own.


My ISTP husband HATES sharing food. I take a fry or a sip of his pop and a look of death is sure to come in my direction (even if I ask first and he says yes!) but yeah, if i ask him to buy me something, no problem. I didn't know this was an ISTP trait, lol.


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

I think perceivers will often describe themselves as selfish and judgers often describe themselves as giving.

I think anyone who claims to be self_less_ 100% of the time, needs a reality check.


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## mnemonicfx (Sep 5, 2010)

The selfish gene exists in everyone. It's just a matter of circumstances to know when we use it.
A P thinks that by throwing ideas, and let people think for themselves is a selfless action. A J thinks that to organize and make decision for others is a selfless action.


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## professorquail (Dec 16, 2014)

When we were talking about the Fi/Ti selfishness, I couldn't help but think that they are two TOTALLY different types of selfish. The Extroverted Perceivers (ESFP, ENFP, ENTP, ESTP) tend to have a more narcissistic selfishness about them, while the Introverted Judgers (ISTP, ISFP, INTP, INFP) have a more superior kind of selfishness, at least in my experience. As an ESFP, I don't usually feel very superior, I just want to have the attention. For my INTP best friend, she talks of "ignorant children" at least every day. Same with ISTP or INFP. Also, I didn't mean to offend anyone. This is my experience of these people and I am entirely aware that these stereotypes I have created aren't valid for some people.


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## Pressed Flowers (Oct 8, 2014)

This is part of what kept me from identifying as ENFJ :/ many descriptions say we are solely selfless and altruistic, and that's just not correct. Fe can be selfish, and for me I want to be selfish, but we still need time alone. I can't run rolled on Ni/Ti. I need to recharge. 

But for me, I don't question my motives as the OP does. If I'm helping others, doing something for someone else, I just accept that as selfless. (But I don't really spend much time evaluating for selfless I am. I just sort of take it for granted that I'm not, although I might try to do selfless things like spend time with someone who needs it or give someone a gift.)

All types are ultimately selfish, but some individuals have an easier time giving for others than others do.


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## mkj (Sep 9, 2014)

In privacy and around family, my true self is pretty selfish. In public, around strangers and acquaintances, I'm relatively selfless because I need to maintain the amiable image that I project.


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## Consolidated Potato (Feb 2, 2015)

I remember reading somewhere that introverts thinkers tend to be selfish when compared to their extroverted thinker counterparts while extroverted feelers tend to be more selfish than their introverted counterparts.

Personally, I'm not selfish at all and I had to learn to be more selfish, greedy and a bunch of other negative personality traits in order to better fit in with others. :wink:


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## Tipo (Jan 12, 2017)

I am an intp and I am very selfish as of late. I used to be one of the most altruistic people I knew (used to be infp as well), and all I thought about was the wellbeing of others and how to better the world's systems to achieve equality and world peace and happiness. I suppose the tender, open heart I was baring to the world became inflamed and infected in the open air-- but even back in my feely days people told me I came off as cold and weird. However the only selfishnesses I really had within myself were sadness/depression mood swings where I would withdraw, sometimes obliviously and sometimes not, and ditch my friends for my mind and convoluted feelings; I was emotionally needy, but I did not impose this upon others at all as I was very self aware. I gave a reasonable amount, I suppose. 

Then I evolved into my newer, more rational self. I was more confident expressing my love for knowledge as a way to impress, to categorize the world without being bogged down by emotions, and as a means to an end. I still held my pure and pristine ideals but the world disappointed me again and again. I saw less and less need for them and began to rationalize other people's actions I had previously been forgiving yet disgusted of, and instead saw the merit in their cleverness or elusiveness or ability to get what they wanted. Then even my fun, easygoing philosophical side left me (or was forced out, whatever) and a darker version of myself emerged. Now I think obsessively on matters Me 1 never would have dreamed of thinking of. I cruelly prod and poke people with playful banter that also leaves a purposeful feeling of sudden inexplicable doubt and insecurity, then melt back into the laughter of the group. This sometimes suddenly becomes a full-fledged shouting match, the subjects of which having no idea how it had even started, myself shouting delightedly in the thick of it. Often they would blame someone generally seen as unfavorable, and the scapegoat would be punished for "causing" it. This merely gave the situation more humorous merit for my enjoyment. One might even argue I became an intj (this happened gradually over a very long time period) as I grew more interested in school, success, and influence over others. I began developing different faces for different people; to this day I am now unsure if there is a "base" one I belong to, or if such a truthful face even exists at all. I never played the manipulation game with my closest friends, but everyone else was fair game, a pawn on my chessboard of hilarity. I stole, did whatever gave me pleasure in whatever quantity I wished, and did whatever I had to to get whatever ridiculous thing I desired next. It was absolutely intoxicating and I loved being so good at what I did, with no one to stop me. I saw myself as the only way to give myself happiness. This from the kid who wanted nothing more than to use all their funds over the course of their life to establish education and distribute first-world supplies to everyone all over the world.

I recently realized how horrible I had become. Of course I had to rationalize why I needed to readopt my old value system, but something inside me, perhaps a small scrap of my old self, urged me to bring it back. Of course I am more selfish now, after that; however, I do adore those who have been sensitive and strong all their lives, have loved others without doing it for themselves. Very few of these people actually exist, and of course they are selfish in their own ways as well, but I do like that cliche quote 'having a soft heart in a cruel world is courage, not weakness.' I see it as the bravest a person can be. 

Bleh, so many feelings. I wish we could do without them, but every person is in possession of emotions. Conclusion: all ppl suck, some are ok, I wish I was a goat herder.


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## Tipo (Jan 12, 2017)

I am not implying that my progression into intp/j was what turned me evil, merely commenting on selfishness (though, hyper rationality makes easier the path to amorality)


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## Quads (Mar 8, 2017)

I feel as if ENFPs can be selfish in more subtle ways. They (or at least I) give love and happiness to people because I don't wish to feel neglected or unappreciated ever.


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## Waveshine (Mar 18, 2011)

From my experience, immature Fi users and TPs with weak Fe tend to be more selfish. Immature use of Fi is directed more to self instead of others, and weak Fe users either don't care enough to consider people's feelings or are unsure about how to deal with them


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## Female INFJ (Feb 27, 2010)

Infp, 100% percent desire for the self alone. All activities and thoughts about themselves. And because of this for me so simple to read them. Thats where the problem starts. Im a strong intuitive that can figure people out. This clashes with the "I'm special" immediateky. Then trouble starts - But always on this "you don't know me" , "I'm special ", "my inner world is special". Inability to change and hear ideas outside t heir own. And watch out if you are judged in their world to be of low value. Then the sick behavior comes out. Then I thought wait a minute. I was being judged and torn down by people who barely knew me. And I almost bought that nonsense about them being loving toward me and being special. It was a rouse to get me to open up to be judged. 

Wait! Im getting to know the truth now - Everyone has a sacred inner world, and is special! Hopefully I'm healing now that I realize this and start knowing that I'm not missing out. My amazing istp friends tell me that I don't need this shit in my life and they are right. True love is action, compassion is love in action. For another person, as they are. Not because it feels good. Often sharing and giving love to others in the moment is challenging, and it means stepping out of comfort zones. People who only think about their own personal comforts, Inner world's and hierarchy, I'm surprised this inner hierarchy topic never comes up. That's what brings the hate. Inclusion and exclusion, judging, then political correct pretending not judging on the outside. This is just my I'll experiences. Sure there are more developed people in different stages. But how I've been treated is plain ugly.


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## Female INFJ (Feb 27, 2010)

Istj pretty damn selfish too, but I can see the logic in it, and I respect it and their decisions. I can see why they are the way they are interacting with people for certain purposes in their life plan. I may not like it, and be excluded, but I get it.


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## Female INFJ (Feb 27, 2010)

Infj in developing stages is selfish too, but there is a growth and transformation aspect to the infj, a desire to change, and perhaps test their own beliefs because they want to see others smile and be happy. That's my infj path at least. My istj sister who is very sensor is fast to point out my errors how I'm being selfish. Yes I get upset, but then I change it. I don't cut her out of my life or demean her, or judge her because she challenged me. And my inner way of seeing things. 

Thank you personality cafe. I feel so much better talking about these topics here. I felt isolated this week because of the hateful way I've been treated from latest and hopefully last encounter with a selfish person. The narcissist ruined relationships in my last spiritual group. She goes to places and pretends she's interested and leaves because she can't hear anything outside of what she feels inside, hence no transformation. She's told me she's better than me and no one will believe me because she's prettier than me. I'm in a good position to see the worst in people. Because I'm intuitive and I'm not attractive with a high paid job. So I always get to see the inner workings of idealists who let out their garbage on "people who don't matter" like me, because they think no one "important" in their hierarchy is listening. It's intellectual version of the caste system. I suffer this situation over and over last person I dealt with portrays himself as so Godly, but after asking about his beliefs he got bent out of shape. So then why try to be friends with someone you dislike and judge, who knows it's morbid like watching an accident go by on a freeway.


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## Female INFJ (Feb 27, 2010)

Ah! When I have time I'll post this in infj forum to get help on how to heal.


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## Female INFJ (Feb 27, 2010)

I shouldn't throw stones. I'm selfish too. I woke up this morning. The pain has stopped and I got a message figuring out why I had 3 negative encounters withe Infps. I am greatful to them. And they have been my enemies in the spiritual sense. I send them love and happiness now that I learned my lesson. Dalai lama - for a practitioner of love and enemy is one of the most important teachers. I'm so thrilled with this result I can't wait for my next encounter with a miserable person. Reminds me why I like difficult people. I'm a fool and I like it. Good healing benefits off of infp also. Although in all cases I've experienced the context wasn't there and the infp didn't realize what was said or done that caused that healing process within me.


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## Female INFJ (Feb 27, 2010)

I wish I could be friends with this infp. My approach with him was all wrong. I showed him the full energy of my personality and where my Intuition was going. I new immediately the value of his friendship. He is a disciple also so I assumed he was exactly like me. He mistook everything I told him. Amd6the energy was too much he immedi6cut me off. I feel loss. Next time I'll know better not to say or do anything disruptive to a sensitive creature. Infj and infp are so far apart it's ridiculous. Although in person on surface seems like we are immediate relatives, like brothers and sisters. I overstepped. And he could use some compassion. Both wrong. And he'll never understand me anyway because I'm unimportant to him. So spilt milk. Just thought to report here I figured it out.


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## Jeffrei (Aug 23, 2016)

We all know the ESFJs are the most selfish type. *sarcasm*


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## casepag (Feb 28, 2017)

Me af tho


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## Turi (May 9, 2017)

I run myself into the ground so much for my family and other people that I have almost no time at all to just relax and be by myself.


I've had about 2 hours total of alone time in the last 4 or so years. I do mess around on forums obviously but it's in between doing shit for other people, and work + uni.


Even on here.. I could be looking up other shit but I wind up here trying to help type people etc haha.


When I do something selfish it feels like everyone knows, notices and judges.

In my head I have super selfish thoughts though, but they never come to fruition, I'm totally in control of my impulses and emotions in that respect.


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## dulcinea (Aug 22, 2011)

No.


* *




Not everything can be pegged on type

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Most things can't be pegged on type

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What I'd give for people to stop pegging things on type.


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## casepag (Feb 28, 2017)

I would say the most to least selfish are:
1. ENFP (I could go on a tangent..)
2. ENTP (don't even get me started)
3. ESTP (SO MANY FUCKBOYS)
4. ENTJ 
5. ESFP 
6. INTJ (sorry fam)
7. ESTJ
8. INTP 
9. isfp (Unintentionally! So stubborn)
10. infj
11 ENFJ, 
12. infp, 
13. ESFJ, 
14. istj (one of my favorites) 
15. istp 
16. ISFJ


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## atamagasuita (May 15, 2016)

I'm selfish


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