# How To Troll The Inferior



## Ogen (Jul 14, 2011)

Warning: Don't try this at home.

So I've been playing around with ways of trolling peoples inferior functions. Honestly it is mostly to try to understand the functions better. The first time I really understood Te was when I trolled an ENTJ and hit a nerve when I started saying he "liked" something.

I understood suddenly that the best way to troll him was to start talking about stuff anyone likes for no reason.

"OH! Apples! I really LOVE apples! MMMM! Yay! Stems are awesome! Don't you think! And they are all RED AND PRETTY!"

And various what nots.

For Si inferiors, I've found what really hits me hard is people pointing out the obvious.

"There is a lamp in front of you. It is sitting on a desk. It has a light-bulb in it. It is bright and probably hot to the touch."

But those are the only two I've really figured out. Any thoughts on the other functions?


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## Miss Scarlet (Jul 26, 2010)




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## missushoney (May 16, 2011)

Hmm well I am an INFJ and I dunno if it has anything to do with my functions and what not but I get really pissed when someone calls me something that's not true, or something rude. Cuss words (about me. I don't mind if people cuss but not at me.), "stupid", "idiot" and things about me being selfish or a bad person in some way gets me crazy. I especially hate if the person is saying I'm bad and making it seem like some other girl is an angel or less bad in some way. Urggh! >=( I try really hard to be a good person and when people try to tear that down, I feel like it's so unfair.


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## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

Hahaha! I've done this at home. This totally made my day! I so do this with my twin, an INTP, where I'll bring value judgements into the equation, such as "Did you _like_ the wording of *whatever* in this article, story, etc.?," and she'll usually respond in this really awkward way that looks like it's taking a ton of effort with a startled facial expression, "Umm...*tries to find logical reasoning to back up anything she'll say*...well, I mean, I guess it works, um...That's a weird question...Why do you ask? That's out-of-character of you to ask *gets jocular*" Sometimes, she'll just go "Umm...sure...it was fine," and I'll ask "Why?" and she doesn't have a clue how to determine this - she'll just resort to enthusiastic displays of behavior to get the point across that she liked it. She's like that with the things she loves most, where she'll mainly resort to major enthusiastic displays of behavior to get the point across that she likes something or keep it simple - otherwise, she'll start analyzing why it's so great when she's off the hook with the value judgements. On the other hand, if she hates something, she's suddenly able to make clear value-judgements about it, which usually come across like "I HATTTTTTTED that - that was so AWFUL, what a DISGUSTING PIECE OF CRAP! WHAT DRECK! - I'll NEVER LIKE THAT!!!" That's definitely how I can tell that she's an inferior Fe type, lol.


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## electricky (Feb 18, 2011)

You can troll people really horribly through the inferior.

(This is all theoretical btw, haven't tried these. And these only characterize the inferior response not the function itself).

ENP (Si): Your stubbornness is showing, along with that nervous tic of yours.
IFP (Te): Why keep going? It's not like you can control the outcome...
ITP (Fe): If you think your crying is going to help to manipulate, don't even try.
ETJ (Fi): So you think you're so special now, do you?
ESP (Ni): Paranoia looks so cute on you.
INJ (Se): Being the loudest one doesn't make you the most correct.
ISJ (Ne): Here comes the out-of-control attack of the crazies...
EFJ (Ti): You're starting to get pedantic, could we get the the two sentence summary please?

Basically, bringing an intuitive's attention to raw sensation, a sensor's attention to raw intuition, a thinker's attention to raw feeling, and a feeler's attention to raw thinking. 

Simply laying out the details of a lamp in the middle of nowhere might get to me, but what bothers me even more and actually happens often is when someone goes "What's that in your hair? No, to the left, no no, to the right. No no, ewww what is that? Ohhh, it's part of the fleece from your jacket. Did you know you have a zit on the bottom of your chin?" If you want one of my silent staredowns, there's an effective method. Maybe you could bug a dominant thinking type in a similar way by trying to guess how they are feeling.


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## AbioticPrime (Sep 1, 2011)

Fi-doms *HATE* being told what to do, especially if done in an authoritarian/administrative tone. Tone and attitude is very important when trolling an Fi-dom, lol.


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## Chipps (Jun 1, 2011)

ElectricSparkle said:


> You can troll people really horribly through the inferior.
> 
> (This is all theoretical btw, haven't tried these. And these only characterize the inferior response not the function itself).
> 
> ...


Both the Se and Si got a reaction from me just by reading it. If someone did that to me, they'd move to the top of my "list". And you don't want to be on my list.


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## allisreal (Mar 23, 2010)

AbioticPrime said:


> Fi-doms *HATE* being told what to do, especially if done in an authoritarian/administrative tone. Tone and attitude is very important when trolling an Fi-dom, lol.


Haha yeah...I can be extremely reactive to people telling me how I should I do things when what I'm doing doesn't make any sense to them. Much of the time I'm thinking, "Why do you assume I care that this 'makes sense'? As if we all want the same thing?..."


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## Hapalo (Sep 4, 2011)

For Se inferior:
"Leap that wall, if you're so great"


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## AbioticPrime (Sep 1, 2011)

allisreal said:


> Haha yeah...I can be extremely reactive to people telling me how I should I do things when what I'm doing doesn't make any sense to them. Much of the time I'm thinking, "Why do you assume I care that this 'makes sense'? As if we all want the same thing?..."


That just kinda trolls me because my typical response is "why do it in the first place if you're not gonna get very far with it"?


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## pmj85 (Jul 31, 2010)

Whilst I'm relaying my understanding of a certain concept, interrupt me and ask me to cite my sources / remain closed minded to what I'm saying until I do.

Sit smugly as you observe me descend into a pissy, overly-gesticulative, high pitched mess.


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## Dark Romantic (Dec 27, 2011)

Ogen said:


> "There is a lamp in front of you. It is sitting on a desk. It has a light-bulb in it. It is bright and probably hot to the touch."


This sentence almost made me lose my shit. :laughing:



ElectricSparkle said:


> "What's that in your hair? No, to the left, no no, to the right. No no, ewww what is that? Ohhh, it's part of the fleece from your jacket. Did you know you have a zit on the bottom of your chin?"


And so did this.


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## pretyhowtown (May 1, 2010)

AbioticPrime said:


> Fi-doms *HATE* being told what to do, especially if done in an authoritarian/administrative tone. Tone and attitude is very important when trolling an Fi-dom, lol.


*starts to wonder if mother-in-law has been trolling her this whole time*


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## Hapalo (Sep 4, 2011)

pmj85 said:


> Whilst I'm relaying my understanding of a certain concept, interrupt me and ask me to cite my sources / remain closed minded to what I'm saying until I do.
> 
> Sit smugly as you observe me descend into a pissy, overly-gesticulative, high pitched mess.


This.
It is annoying when in casual conversations people ask for sources.
My reaction is the same as yours.


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## Tove (Dec 25, 2011)

ElectricSparkle said:


> IFP (Te): Why keep going? It's not like you can control the outcome...


So true. This made me go up the wall.


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## Owfin (Oct 15, 2011)

Any ESP or spiritual stuff grinds my gears. I know the latter one isn't _stupid_, it's just not something for me. I want to know valid reasons for them existing, and people just shake their heads and tell me I should try to loose myself and my skepticism.


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## pmj85 (Jul 31, 2010)

Hapalo said:


> This.
> It is annoying when in casual conversations people ask for sources.
> My reaction is the same as yours.


Perhaps it's a Ni-dom thing? I'm supposed to be an INFJ.


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## NeedsNewNameNow (Dec 1, 2009)

Ogen said:


> Warning: Don't try this at home.
> 
> So I've been playing around with ways of trolling peoples inferior functions. Honestly it is mostly to try to understand the functions better. The first time I really understood Te was when I trolled an ENTJ and hit a nerve when I started saying he "liked" something.
> 
> ...


For inferior Fe.. try to manipulate their emotions by being overly enthusiastic "I'm thrilled about this and you should be too" or "you should smile!"


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## WickedQueen (Jun 1, 2009)

ElectricSparkle said:


> ETJ (Fi): So you think you're so special now, do you?


*thinks*
*imagines if someone say that to her*
*imagines her reaction*

The one answer that pop-up in my mind is this:
-in a curious tone-
"Well, I always feel special. Doesn't everybody else think like that too about themselves? Why is that becomes a problem to you?"

Conclusion:
Words are just words. The power of words lies in your own perception. Words can only hurt you if you let them.


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## Anubis (Nov 30, 2011)

When debating with an INTP, confidentially say, "cite your sources." After the INTP gets angry, tell them to smile.


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## NeedsNewNameNow (Dec 1, 2009)

JungyesMBTIno said:


> Hahaha! I've done this at home. This totally made my day! I so do this with my twin, an INTP, where I'll bring value judgements into the equation, such as "Did you _like_ the wording of *whatever* in this article, story, etc.?," and she'll usually respond in this really awkward way that looks like it's taking a ton of effort with a startled facial expression, "Umm...*tries to find logical reasoning to back up anything she'll say*...well, I mean, I guess it works, um...That's a weird question...Why do you ask? That's out-of-character of you to ask *gets jocular*" Sometimes, she'll just go "Umm...sure...it was fine," and I'll ask "Why?" and she doesn't have a clue how to determine this - she'll just resort to enthusiastic displays of behavior to get the point across that she liked it. She's like that with the things she loves most, where she'll mainly resort to major enthusiastic displays of behavior to get the point across that she likes something or keep it simple - otherwise, she'll start analyzing why it's so great when she's off the hook with the value judgements. On the other hand, if she hates something, she's suddenly able to make clear value-judgements about it, which usually come across like "I HATTTTTTTED that - that was so AWFUL, what a DISGUSTING PIECE OF CRAP! WHAT DRECK! - I'll NEVER LIKE THAT!!!" That's definitely how I can tell that she's an inferior Fe type, lol.


Oh yes, ask me how I like something that I have no opinion on. My response drives people crazy "It's ok" -or- do what you said, start analyzing it's good and bad points, which drives feelers batty, sometimes upsetting them. When we have strong feelings on something, we'll do what you said, emphasize them. But for the most part if we'll feel neutral we may not respond in the way you are looking for


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## NeedsNewNameNow (Dec 1, 2009)

pmj85 said:


> Perhaps it's a Ni-dom thing? I'm supposed to be an INFJ.


Maybe intuition in general? I thought Te was all about citing sources though.


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## AbioticPrime (Sep 1, 2011)

pmj85 said:


> Perhaps it's a Ni-dom thing? I'm supposed to be an INFJ.


Being condescendingly asked to quote sources can be such a drag for me as well. It definitely does seem like an Se thing -- wanting to view tangible proof of what someone claims to exist. But it particularly ticks at me when it's done out of spite -- out of someone emotionally doing whatever they can not to accept what you said as fact.

It bugs me even more when you show them the source and they _still_ deny it to be true......................

Though this is starting to get into the Fi range which makes sense for me I guess. (You can probably tell I've had hard times with ISFPs lol)


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## Chipps (Jun 1, 2011)

To troll Se really hardcore, all you have to do is jump from task to task without finishing the first one, thought to thought, instantly abandoning the previous one the second the next one is introduced to you. 


Last night, my ESFP co-worker was doing this to me hardcore. I told her to do X and she said yes, I followed that by saying do Y and then do Z. In that order. It was very efficient and could easily be done. 

Guess which ones got done? Z and only Z. She had completely forgotten about the other two and I had to re-point them out to her. Now imagine that happening over and over again throughout a 6 hour shift at a busy food place where Im the one assigned to train her. Then combine that with her latching on to me when were slow to get her Se fill when Im in deep contemplation mode. Top it off with her mindless babble and inability to form any real thought outside the immediate or not so distant past. 

Shes standing on her last leg, and I'm about to hack it the fuck off.


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## pmj85 (Jul 31, 2010)

NeedsNewNameNow said:


> Maybe intuition in general?


Could be 

I can only speak for myself, of course, but I find it incredibly annoying when I'm asked to cite sources; I have zero interest in what I perceive to be 'trivial' details - I'm far more concerned with the general idea rather than the specifics. I'm fairly hardcore with this, though. It's a piss poor excuse but I find academia in general _extremely_ trying... I'm a massive underachiever academically. I've never been able to get behind a system that forces me to write essays on things I understand, just so somebody else who also understands the subject can say "Well done, you understand this subject!" At 26, I still struggle with this and tend to avoid academic betterment where possible. Unfortunately, I'm rapidly coming to a stage in life where I will need to overcome this issue at all costs.

Interestingly (or not ;p) I always score between 75-100% intuitive on a vast array of (largely useless) tests floating around the internet. So yes - perhaps it is an intuitive thing. Or perhaps I'm just hella lazy.


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## Bumblyjack (Nov 18, 2011)

NeedsNewNameNow said:


> I thought Te was all about citing sources though.


Not really. Te is more about supporting claims with logically-consistent arguments. Citing sources may be part of the support. Empirical evidence can also carry great weight. However, neither of these things matter in terms of supporting a claim if the argument is logically inconsistent.

Here's an example of a poorly supported claim (from a Te perspective): stating that decreases in measured atmospheric oxygen concentrations are due to photosynthesis decreasing worldwide as a result of rain forest deforestation. While this evidence may match expected findings resulting from mass deforestation, this does nothing to rule out other potential causes such as increased carbon emissions or greater oxygen consumption. I.e. while the evidence may mesh well with the claim, it is illogical to leap to the conclusion that they made.


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## Hapalo (Sep 4, 2011)

pmj85 said:


> Could be
> 
> I can only speak for myself, of course, but I find it incredibly annoying when I'm asked to cite sources; I have zero interest in what I perceive to be 'trivial' details - I'm far more concerned with the general idea rather than the specifics. I'm fairly hardcore with this, though. It's a piss poor excuse but I find academia in general _extremely_ trying... I'm a massive underachiever academically. I've never been able to get behind a system that forces me to write essays on things I understand, just so somebody else who also understands the subject can say "Well done, you understand this subject!" .


I agree with the "trivial details" part but I mainly dislike citing sources for different reasons. 




Bumblyjack said:


> Not really. Te is more about supporting claims with logically-consistent arguments. Citing sources may be part of the support. Empirical evidence can also carry great weight. However, neither of these things matter in terms of supporting a claim if the argument is logically inconsistent.
> 
> Here's an example of a poorly supported claim (from a Te perspective): stating that decreases in measured atmospheric oxygen concentrations are due to photosynthesis decreasing worldwide as a result of rain forest deforestation. While this evidence may match expected findings resulting from mass deforestation, this does nothing to rule out other potential causes such as increased carbon emissions or greater oxygen consumption. I.e. while the evidence may mesh well with the claim, it is illogical to leap to the conclusion that they made.


This is exactly how I feel about the subject. I am impressed.
Bonus points for saying that correlation != causation.


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## AbioticPrime (Sep 1, 2011)

Chipps said:


> To troll Se really hardcore, all you have to do is jump from task to task without finishing the first one, thought to thought, instantly abandoning the previous one the second the next one is introduced to you.
> 
> 
> Last night, my ESFP co-worker was doing this to me hardcore. I told her to do X and she said yes, I followed that by saying do Y and then do Z. In that order. It was very efficient and could easily be done.
> ...


All I have to say is... Oh my god. Lol...

I've been subconsciously suffering from this for years... thank you for bringing this to my conscious scope. Now to find a solution to better manage the SPs in my life.


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## Chipps (Jun 1, 2011)

AbioticPrime said:


> All I have to say is... Oh my god. Lol...
> 
> I've been subconsciously suffering from this for years... thank you for bringing this to my conscious scope. Now to find a solution to better manage the SPs in my life.


When it comes to ESFP my philosophy is this, "You can't live with them, and you certainly can't burn them, but you can fantasize about smothering them all with pillows." lol. 

With Se doms, you have to give them one task at a time. Like dishing out pez through one of those dispensers.


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## Zombie Devil Duckie (Apr 11, 2012)

I'll admit it, the title alone got me to look at this thread. My first thought was "just because you can do it doesn't mean you should". 

Then I took a step back and saw the reasons people were investigating this darker side of psychology. I'm better now.

And yes, I know what it takes to push my buttons...

- ZDD


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## Ogen (Jul 14, 2011)

Kind of what I realized over the years is that each function can be broken down into sentences.

Ni - Seeing into what will happen next. Se - Living in the moment.

Te - Value based on importance. Fi - Value based on morals.

Ne - Connects everything together. Si - Separates the details out.

Fe... Ti... I don't really have a sentence for these two yet. But my best bet is.

Ti - Working out problems based on logic. Fe - Working on problems based on morals.

And of course those functions each do tons and tons of things. But if functions had a DnA code, that would be it, because each of the functions are made of those basic things.

I pretty much realized from this thread that to troll the inferior... you use the 8th function. Responding to someone who trolled an INTP by asking what they felt about something, it was forcing them to internally evaluate feelings. When I started talking about things my ENTJ friend liked, I was extroverting his feelings by force.


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## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

> I pretty much realized from this thread that to troll the inferior... you use the 8th function. Responding to someone who trolled an INTP by asking what they felt about something, it was forcing them to internally evaluate feelings. When I started talking about things my ENTJ friend liked, I was extroverting his feelings by force.


I totally agree. Next to Fi, my twin's pretty good with Fe (at least it looks good to me, since it's in 7th position for me, while for her, it is preferred, but just in last place of the preferred functions). You have a great understanding of this stuff, I have to say!


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## Vanderlyle (Jan 19, 2012)

> ESP (Ni): Paranoia looks so cute on you.


 Oh. You got me good with this one


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## SalvinaZerelda (Aug 26, 2010)

Haha.. 
Usually I try to help people by strengthening their inferior functions, but trolling them could be a lot of fun too. ^_^

Si seems to troll me more than anything, so maybe I am a Si inferior..?
It literally turns me into a nervous wreck.. -_-


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## AbioticPrime (Sep 1, 2011)

Rune said:


> Haha..
> Usually I try to help people by strengthening their inferior functions, but trolling them could be a lot of fun too. ^_^
> 
> Si seems to troll me more than anything, so maybe I am a Si inferior..?
> It literally turns me into a nervous wreck.. -_-


What about it? You might be confusing it with Te


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## SalvinaZerelda (Aug 26, 2010)

AbioticPrime said:


> What about it? You might be confusing it with Te


I was actually in Te mode so I could accomplish what I needed to do, and I was sitting there trying to break the process up into steps, and she wanted to put herself in danger over a few minor details and ignored what I was saying until I finally just did the rest by myself.

Te to me is logical structure.
Si to me is "concrete details"


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## AbioticPrime (Sep 1, 2011)

Rune said:


> I was actually in Te mode so I could accomplish what I needed to do, and I was sitting there trying to break the process up into steps, and she wanted to put herself in danger over a few minor details and ignored what I was saying until I finally just did the rest by myself.
> 
> Te to me is logical structure.
> Si to me is "concrete details"


They can both include concrete details. It really depends on what context. 

Te is more concerned with getting all the facts straight before making conclusions and taking action. Sometimes the facts, numbers, details can get pretty specific. I've noticed my ISFP friend gets particularly dis-heartened when I start pulling out facts and figures to better explain my points.

Could this be similar to what happened to you?


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## electricky (Feb 18, 2011)

Ogen said:


> I pretty much realized from this thread that to troll the inferior... you use the 8th function. Responding to someone who trolled an INTP by asking what they felt about something, it was forcing them to internally evaluate feelings. When I started talking about things my ENTJ friend liked, I was extroverting his feelings by force.


Yeah... that totally makes sense. The 8th function in some sense is the most threatening to the dominant, threatening to take it's place entirely. I've thought that this may be why I get ill and enraged when someone gets me to react on pure instinct (Se at the most undeveloped level?), like a sudden catch of attention through something like shouting or pulling my seat backwards. (But then of course if it's something interestingly surprising, it's automatically the most exciting thing ever....) It's literally like losing myself for a second. In words, this could work more like suddenly telling an ENP to get real, or a rightly-timed "why don't you just do something already?"


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## SalvinaZerelda (Aug 26, 2010)

AbioticPrime said:


> They can both include concrete details. It really depends on what context.
> 
> Te is more concerned with getting all the facts straight before making conclusions and taking action. Sometimes the facts, numbers, details can get pretty specific. I've noticed my ISFP friend gets particularly dis-heartened when I start pulling out facts and figures to better explain my points.
> 
> Could this be similar to what happened to you?


Maybe my idea of Te is wrong..
I thought Te users value structure, efficiency, look for ways to save time, visualize "thinking type logic" systematically, enjoy being as practical as possible, are methodical, break processes up and build them back up once they gain a glimpse of the whole, "action-oriented"..?

I suppose my understanding of Si is:
Responsibilities, cleanliness, tradition, family, bodily sensations, the here and the now..
Usually my Si would be something I felt comfortable with, but now it just feels like nagging..

Si felt like this to me: :angry::mellow::ninja:
Te felt like this to me when my ENTJ friend would troll me: :bored::sad::laughing::tongue:


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## Owfin (Oct 15, 2011)

Rune said:


> Responsibilities, cleanliness, tradition, family, bodily sensations, the here and the now..


Nope, nope, nope, nope, in limited senses of the word, nope.

Tradition is usually more of a Te thing, actually. Te uses external standards for determining validity, and traditions often end up being those standards.

Si is actually just identifying reality with your own internal conceptions and archetypal formulations of it. Like if you ask me what a mesquite tree looks like, I don't think of the one in front of my house, but a sort of "pure" idea of what it looks like gathered up from experience. 

Si: The fire is comforting. Why is it comforting? Because it is warm- and warmth is a comforting thing.

Se: The fire is orange and red. Little dark clouds of smoke puff out of it.

Both functions are concerned with what it _is_; but they understand that in different ways.


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## jeffbobs (Jan 27, 2012)

Ogen said:


> Kind of what I realized over the years is that each function can be broken down into sentences.
> 
> Ni - Seeing into what will happen next. Se - Living in the moment.
> 
> ...


can you perhaps give me some examples by trolling me.


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## psynite (Feb 7, 2011)

jeffbobs said:


> can you perhaps give me some examples by trolling me.


I don't think trolling someone in this thread is a good idea, your feelings might get hurt and then it will all go bad.


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## jeffbobs (Jan 27, 2012)

psynite said:


> I don't think trolling someone in this thread is a good idea, your feelings might get hurt and then it will all go bad.


It is ok i will not get offended, I don't know if i can get offended in this way which is why i am curious. I care about myself less than other people, And i really don't give a dam about other people, so it says a lot about how i view myself, anything bad anyone can say to me, i can say about myself and not really care about it. 

Will also help me understand, because what i see at the moment is just basic trolling, its finding something someone cannot deny about themselves, which they have little control over. so i wanna see if it works.

I shall not try and fight back or say anything back to anyone, I will just take it how i would take anything that is said about me. Feel free to join in, to help me better understand


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## psynite (Feb 7, 2011)

jeffbobs said:


> It is ok i will not get offended, I don't know if i can get offended in this way which is why i am curious. I care about myself less than other people, And i really don't give a dam about other people, so it says a lot about how i view myself, anything bad anyone can say to me, i can say about myself and not really care about it.
> 
> Will also help me understand, because what i see at the moment is just basic trolling, its finding something someone cannot deny about themselves, which they have little control over. so i wanna see if it works.
> 
> I shall not try and fight back or say anything back to anyone, I will just take it how i would take anything that is said about me. Feel free to join in, to help me better understand


I know you say that but everyone always gets hurt in the trolling. I think we should all just find the consensus on what works and what doesn't.


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## jeffbobs (Jan 27, 2012)

psynite said:


> I know you say that but everyone always gets hurt in the trolling. I think we should all just find the consensus on what works and what doesn't.


It is what i am trying to find out, it will help in me finding out, hopefully i do get a few trolling comments. But from what i have read about INTP's I don't think they would work like it is suggested. I need to get an idea of how it works and the reasons they work, the best way for this is to be trolled myself. (and the fact i know it is a troll will deminish offense taken if any is taken at all)

I am not a person who begs for someone to troll them, and then once someone does troll,then go running into a corner crying. It is harmless fun, and like i predict, if they are clever, i will find them quite funny and humourus


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## Narrator (Oct 11, 2009)

jeffbobs said:


> It is what i am trying to find out, it will help in me finding out, hopefully i do get a few trolling comments. But from what i have read about INTP's I don't think they would work like it is suggested. I need to get an idea of how it works and the reasons they work, the best way for this is to be trolled myself. (and the fact i know it is a troll will deminish offense taken if any is taken at all)
> 
> I am not a person who begs for someone to troll them, and then once someone does troll,then go running into a corner crying. It is harmless fun, and like i predict, if they are clever, i will find them quite funny and humourus



I guess maybe tell you that 'Your untidy hair is greatly distressing. I've brought it up so many times and you never do anything about it. When are you gonna put down those books and think of the important things, like not looking like a mess and worrying your mother'? This is more like attempting to simulate the inferior function being critical though...'Smile' is the easiest thing that fits, but it's already been said.


It's hard to pin down exactly one kind of thing which pisses me off, both attacks on emotions and logic irk me - being belittling, being highly cynical/snide/dodgily empowering etc about honest emotional states, running around with illogical ideas which support double standards and massive generalisations, hearing the truth and acting like it's hilarious how 'illogical' I'm being, seeing black as white and being blind to that fact/using it to your advantage, hypocrisy. I guess refusing to/not seeing the truth of whatever kind, and being a jerk about it.


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## jeffbobs (Jan 27, 2012)

Liminality said:


> I guess maybe tell you that 'Your untidy hair is greatly distressing. I've brought it up so many times and you never do anything about it. When are you gonna put down those books and think of the important things, like not looking like a mess and worrying your mother'? This is more like attempting to simulate the inferior function being critical though...'Smile' is the easiest thing that fits, but it's already been said.
> 
> 
> It's hard to pin down exactly one kind of thing which pisses me off, both attacks on emotions and logic irk me - being belittling, being highly cynical/snide/dodgily empowering etc about honest emotional states, running around with illogical ideas which support double standards and massive generalisations, hearing the truth and acting like it's hilarious how 'illogical' I'm being, seeing black as white and being blind to that fact/using it to your advantage, hypocrisy.


 
See i find this sort of thing comical. and helps gain knowledge in this theory. 

Anyone else wanna try join in please do, think of it as helping the theory by getting research done


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## psynite (Feb 7, 2011)

jeffbobs said:


> It is what i am trying to find out, it will help in me finding out, hopefully i do get a few trolling comments. But from what i have read about INTP's I don't think they would work like it is suggested. I need to get an idea of how it works and the reasons they work, the best way for this is to be trolled myself. (and the fact i know it is a troll will deminish offense taken if any is taken at all)
> 
> I am not a person who begs for someone to troll them, and then once someone does troll,then go running into a corner crying. It is harmless fun, and like i predict, if they are clever, i will find them quite funny and humourus


Ah, I see, but even if you don't go running into to the corner to cry, how can we know you're not offended? Isn't it better to just discuss it instead of stubbornly asking someone to insult you?


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

jeffbobs said:


> See i find this sort of thing comical. and helps gain knowledge in this theory.
> 
> Anyone else wanna try join in please do, think of it as helping the theory by getting research done


Do you have any acquaintences or relatives who try to guilt trip you? 

That seems like it'd be a good example.


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## MyDarkAngel (Mar 23, 2012)

I really thought this had a lot of potential... Then I kept reading. I thought you were going to say you figured out how to troll weaknesses, not just annoy people by making yourself look... Ya know.


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## Juan M (Mar 11, 2011)

Oh what an interesting thread!! I know some mmmhh.

For Fe inferiors are the easiest (For me), saying "youre too touchy, sensitive and need to focus in objectivism" when they are stressed can create wonderful chaos, also stealing their credit in a idea that they have worked a lot.

For Si inferiors (Ne dominants), pointing the obvious or criticizing their ideas throught "little detailed-dogmatic facts without argument" like "That will not work, have you resources and realistic proofs that it can be done?" after them expose their arguments, counter with the difference betwen the situation that they investigate and the situation that they imagined "oh yeah that worked because of Xreason, but here is different because Xdetail".

For Ni inferiors (my mom), show them negative facts in the present (past facts and comparative facts for Ne inferiors)and let them connect them in a negative outcome.

For Se inferiors, be indiferent about the outcome and live negatively in the present (the opossite of the Ni).

For Te inferiors, point the logical flaws like "a checkmate in chess", criticize their feelings/morals in a logical way.

For Ti inferiors, tell them logically why they are beeing slefish and bad persons.


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## jeffbobs (Jan 27, 2012)

psynite said:


> Ah, I see, but even if you don't go running into to the corner to cry, how can we know you're not offended? Isn't it better to just discuss it instead of stubbornly asking someone to insult you?


It is the way i see of getting the most information out of this. and it helps both sides better understand. I think i cannot be offended in such an easy way, If i did get offended it is my own dam fault for being so insistent on being trolled. 





Flatlander said:


> Do you have any acquaintences or relatives who try to guilt trip you?
> 
> That seems like it'd be a good example.


Nah not spoken to my mother in over 3 years, my sister lives with her so not spoken to her in ages. My uncle died recently, and my father lives close by and is depressed and been suicidal so i have to check in on him sometimes to make sure he aint dead. i see my family less than my friends. 

Hehe hope that helps


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## psynite (Feb 7, 2011)

jeffbobs said:


> It is the way i see of getting the most information out of this. and it helps both sides better understand. I think i cannot be offended in such an easy way, If i did get offended it is my own dam fault for being so insistent on being trolled.


Yeah, but how about the person who is trolling you? Don't you think that its hard on that person to try and insult someone, even for that persons understanding?


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## Narrator (Oct 11, 2009)

psynite said:


> Yeah, but how about the person who is trolling you? Don't you think that its hard on that person to try and insult someone, even for that persons understanding?


I think it's a good excersize for an ISFJ, use harsh words, not mean them, everyone is on the same page, things go okay.

I can relate to the Fe inferior ones. Ideas are like babies, and being told 'you're too touchy' is just a step away from 'Calm down, why are you getting so angry?' But I think those are mostly universal feelings people have.


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## jeffbobs (Jan 27, 2012)

psynite said:


> Yeah, but how about the person who is trolling you? Don't you think that its hard on that person to try and insult someone, even for that persons understanding?


I have taken this into account already. Ogen has already talked about trolling others for the purpose of understanding. what is better than a test subject who is willing to be trolled to the extreme to see if the tests are viable or true


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## Graficcha (Dec 25, 2011)

jeffbobs said:


> It is the way i see of getting the most information out of this. and it helps both sides better understand. I think i cannot be offended in such an easy way, If i did get offended it is my own dam fault for being so insistent on being trolled.
> 
> Nah not spoken to my mother in over 3 years, my sister lives with her so not spoken to her in ages. My uncle died recently, and my father lives close by and is depressed and been suicidal so i have to check in on him sometimes to make sure he aint dead. i see my family less than my friends.
> 
> Hehe hope that helps


1. psynite seems to type as an INFJ. Fe secondary. I've dealt with Feelers who are aware that there is no such thing as 'everyone will definitely feel hurt by x' and with those that aren't. Either psynite is the former and she's currently trolling you hardcore (since you've back-and-forthed a few times now without getting much further, yet her argument which you and your not as developed Fe sense for harmony don't agree with still keeps eliciting responses from you), or sincerely can't imagine that some people can take distance from teasing.

2. INTP's weakness is Fe. I notice that I absolutely lose control when I'm being accused of abusing Fe, for example 'you knew all along that not doing this chore would hurt my feelings, you did it on purpose!'.
Cue me exploding in self-righteous o-u-effing-di'in't. Me in my awkward naive underdeveloped Fe seems somehow too little-duckling-in-an-ugly-world to use it for anything but genuinely wanting to please, or uncontrolled spur-of-the-moment grudgy rages that I regret later. To suggest that I'd actually use Fe to manipulate people and plan vile ad hominem behaviours just wounds me to my core. Call me air-headed, distracted, forgetful, unmotivated, selfish, a bad planner, *whatever you want*.
But do NOT imply I'm dishonest and manipulative and-and-and ah shit I just want to cry and break things when I'm accused of such things, I couldn't do it if I wanted to.
I suppose I'm being attacked on Fe on two fronts with such 'trolling':
- Implying I use Fe consciously enough to do anything constructive for myself with it, when in fact I wouldn't see the bloody point in it and have better things to do with my energy
- The brutal breach of harmony with people I never meant any personal harm to, which is what Fe does value.

On top of that it's also in form an attack on my Ti not being taken seriously, as suddenly people start mind-reading and thinking for me, as if I don't bloody well know why I did something and why I didn't.


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## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

Yep, the one major thing I've found with INTPs (and I suppose this would apply to ISTPs as well for the same reason, although I haven't had any experiences with this with them), like my twin, is that when it comes to the 8th function, they loathe owning up to personal faults and whatnot in this fashion that's very much the opposite of IXFPs, who tend to be overtly self-deprecating and almost comfortable in dwelling on their own personal faults and problems (real or perceived) to the point of even romanticizing them (living up to standards of their own personal ethics that have nothing to do with anyone else). I think this would have to do with how they usually try to avoid Fi as much as possible through Fe, but them when it comes down to personal attacks, they are really ill-equipped to deal with them and try to bring the external ethics of others into the equation as much as possible to avoid dealing with the consistency of their own until they can't any longer. Ask them, "Why would you want to do that to yourself - do you want to be seen as that kind of person?" and then, they get super irritated. I tend to find the 8th function among the most interesting in all types, since it's the one that tends to be the most blatantly absent (it's known as the cognitive function "blind spot"). It can be helpful in determining someone's type, such as with the following:

EXTJs: They tend to come off as the types that you wonder if they have any concept of how to fit in socially and respond to anything in socially acceptable ways without always having to bring their individualism into the equation (I'm not implying that they're necessarily "inappropriate," but they tend to be hyper-individualistic and "my way or the highway" and tend to act like everything they have to say makes them super unique and worthy of everyone's undivided attention every time they open their mouths, yet they have issues being questioned about their values - I think that's where the "bow to them" stereotypes come from - their near lack of Fe). I don't personally have any problem with this about them as an INTJ, but I can see where this can grate on high Fe types.

I'll add more to this when I find the time.


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## NeedsNewNameNow (Dec 1, 2009)

what about pressuring an INTP to make a decision based on feelings? Seems like that's what lead me to have my most epic explosions.
Example: a friend got drunk and kept asking me to take him to see his girlfriend, 2 hours away. Except he insisted it's only 30 minutes if you take the (non existant) shortcut and kept insisting if I was his friend, I'd do it. And the other people around were agreeing that I should do it, and agreeing that there was such a shortcut. after a bit of this, I just lost it!


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## jeffbobs (Jan 27, 2012)

JungyesMBTIno said:


> Yep, the one major thing I've found with INTPs (and I suppose this would apply to ISTPs as well for the same reason, although I haven't had any experiences with this with them), like my twin, is that when it comes to the 8th function, they loathe owning up to personal faults and whatnot in this fashion that's very much the opposite of IXFPs, who tend to be overtly self-deprecating and almost comfortable in dwelling on their own personal faults and problems (real or perceived) to the point of even romanticizing them (living up to standards of their own personal ethics that have nothing to do with anyone else). I think this would have to do with how they usually try to avoid Fi as much as possible through Fe, but them when it comes down to personal attacks, they are really ill-equipped to deal with them and try to bring the external ethics of others into the equation as much as possible to avoid dealing with the consistency of their own until they can't any longer. Ask them, "Why would you want to do that to yourself - do you want to be seen as that kind of person?" and then, they get super irritated. I tend to find the 8th function among the most interesting in all types, since it's the one that tends to be the most blatantly absent (it's known as the cognitive function "blind spot"). It can be helpful in determining someone's type, such as with the following:
> 
> EXTJs: They tend to come off as the types that you wonder if they have any concept of how to fit in socially and respond to anything in socially acceptable ways without always having to bring their individualism into the equation (I'm not implying that they're necessarily "inappropriate," but they tend to be hyper-individualistic and "my way or the highway" and tend to act like everything they have to say makes them super unique and worthy of everyone's undivided attention every time they open their mouths, yet they have issues being questioned about their values - I think that's where the "bow to them" stereotypes come from - their near lack of Fe). I don't personally have any problem with this about them as an INTJ, but I can see where this can grate on high Fe types.
> 
> I'll add more to this when I find the time.


I am fairly sure i am INTP and i seem to act the way you describe IxFP's i am very self-deprecating, and often will poke fun at myself instead of others.


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## NeedsNewNameNow (Dec 1, 2009)

JungyesMBTIno said:


> Yep, the one major thing I've found with INTPs (and I suppose this would apply to ISTPs as well for the same reason, although I haven't had any experiences with this with them), like my twin, is that when it comes to the 8th function, they loathe owning up to personal faults and whatnot in this fashion that's very much the opposite of IXFPs, who tend to be overtly self-deprecating and almost comfortable in dwelling on their own personal faults and problems (real or perceived) to the point of even romanticizing them (living up to standards of their own personal ethics that have nothing to do with anyone else).


It entirely depends on how the faults are pointed out. If they are done in an accusatory way, (or in a way we perceive as accusatory) then we get defensive.
If they are done in a light-hearted way, chances are not only will we admit to them, we can poke fun at them ourselves.


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## jeffbobs (Jan 27, 2012)

Liminality said:


> Hmm, I think it's about controlling a conversation; you instigate it into a certain direction, control the other into reacting in a certain way, unless they get what you're doing, and then it's interesting.


In Internet slang, a *troll* is someone who posts inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[4] The noun _troll_ may refer to the provocative message itself, as in: "That was an excellent troll you posted".
While the word _troll_ and its associated verb *trolling* are associated with Internet discourse, media attention in recent years has made such labels subjective, with trolling describing intentionally provocative actions and harassment outside of an online context. For example, mass media has used _troll_ to describe "a person who defaces Internet tribute sites with the aim of causing grief to families


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## Graficcha (Dec 25, 2011)

psynite said:


> It was derailing the thread so I have decided by executive decision to let you all know that I was trying to see if it would actually work. I think it did.
> 
> @jeffbobs My reasoning goes like this. In the beginning of our exchange, the way you slowly were becoming more direct and you even said damn a couple times in your post made me think that I was on the right path, but I guess my own Fe stopped me from pushing it over the edge too much. When I turned the conversation from being about social harmony to one of being logically sound, you latched onto that logic lifeboat pretty quickly, we were going to start an argument over the logic of the idea of being a fit test subject than the actual worth. If anything, this proves to me that you are an INTP.
> 
> I have been tempted to try this in a few situations in real life, and I could see that in most cases it would work. It takes a lot of tact to pull this off IRL without angering someone. It always angers me when someone tells me I have my head in the clouds, but the ones that really irritate me are the ones that tell me something is impossible, and then look at me like I'm crazy when I explain how its not.


Har har har, faith in humanity (or at least you) restored.

As said, from my POV it's a much more satifying reality to find someone's harmlessly trolling/playing around/testing reactions, than to find someone actually believes something extraordinarily extreme and unrealistic.

Good game.


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## psynite (Feb 7, 2011)

jeffbobs said:


> I have not felt any anger yet  i thought u would of at least carried on, Because my counter was illogical, I saw you trying to use logic as a way to get your point across and countered with an illogical joke.
> 
> trolling is not about controlling a conversation, it is only normal to follow the same trend as the person your talking too, its finding common ground.
> 
> so how was that a successful troll? if so my concept of what trolling is has been sadly destroyed faced with the reality of what it is


It really wasn't highly successful, more like an experiment. I don't think you were even close to angry, but the way you worded your posts changed a little bit.

Trolling is doing something just to try to get a reaction out of someone. It is easier to do it in person, and with someone you know without having to resort to the juvenile tactics of most internet trolls.


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## Graficcha (Dec 25, 2011)

jeffbobs said:


> In Internet slang, a *troll* is someone who posts inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[4] The noun _troll_ may refer to the provocative message itself, as in: "That was an excellent troll you posted".
> While the word _troll_ and its associated verb *trolling* are associated with Internet discourse, media attention in recent years has made such labels subjective, with trolling describing intentionally provocative actions and harassment outside of an online context. For example, mass media has used _troll_ to describe "a person who defaces Internet tribute sites with the aim of causing grief to families


Hm, I think on here and on quite a few other places, we've come to see the definition you give as pesky noob trolls that don't know how to play the game and aren't even worthy of the name 'troll'.

A troll the way it's used here seems to imply a more subtle game of deceit, where it becomes impossible for the troll-ee to really be sure if the troll is being genuine or not, and takes the troll seriously, thus falling squarely for the troll's trap.


It's the difference between internet poop flinging and internet spy games. One is more deliberately manipulative, the other's just pointless unpleasantness.

Like, saying 'I HAET MY LITTLE PONY UR ALL FAGGETS' is more easily ignored then 'say, it has come to my attention that the prevalence of homosexuality and suicides are higher in brony circles, also the artwork doesn't appeal to me very much'. 
Just see which one would most easily get under your skin, true or not, and which one would get the banhammer the quickest.


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## psynite (Feb 7, 2011)

Graficcha said:


> Har har har, faith in humanity (or at least you) restored.
> 
> As said, from my POV it's a much more satifying reality to find someone's harmlessly trolling/playing around/testing reactions, than to find someone actually believes something extraordinarily extreme and unrealistic.
> 
> Good game.


I was contemplating trying to troll both of you at the same time after your post outing me.


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## Graficcha (Dec 25, 2011)

psynite said:


> I was contemplating trying to troll both of you at the same time after your post outing me.


I suppose you could have, I'm just a poor ol'e INTP who can't settle for dismissing what someone else is saying as bullshit/deceit with absolute certainty until they admit it.
I hate being mind-read and while I can have strong suspicions, I can't claim to be able to think in someone else's stead and tell them what their motives are.

Also my own cynical side of not underestimating other people's potential for believing the weirdest things. 'm Already glad you were just cranking up the Fe-stance, I aaaalmost started to feel like a mean asshole for not at all supporting it.


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## jeffbobs (Jan 27, 2012)

Graficcha said:


> Hm, I think on here and on quite a few other places, we've come to see the definition you give as pesky noob trolls that don't know how to play the game and aren't even worthy of the name 'troll'.
> 
> A troll the way it's used here seems to imply a more subtle game of deceit, *where it becomes impossible for the troll-ee to really be sure if the troll is being genuine or not, and takes the troll seriously*, thus falling squarely for the troll's trap.
> 
> ...


I thought my completely illogical statement at the end explained how i understood what was going on, thus changing the direction of where it was going. 

and i think my last illogical statement was not actually manipulated, was i manipulated into being illogical, or was the intention of the post i replied to, to get me all annoyed or angry and try and be super logical, which i thought was the intention. i really should stop smoking weed and chatting on this forum


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## Graficcha (Dec 25, 2011)

jeffbobs said:


> I thought my completely illogical statement at the end explained how i understood what was going on, thus changing the direction of where it was going.
> 
> and i think my last illogical statement was not actually manipulated, was i manipulated into being illogical, or was the intention of the post i replied to, to get me all annoyed or angry and try and be super logical, which i thought was the intention. i really should stop smoking weed and chatting on this forum


TBH I haven't been following the discourse in such detail that I know just what 'last illogical statement' you keep referring to. 

I was responding to your gracious copy-pasting of wikipedia trying to define 'troll', which didn't correspond to how we use it here. You were asking how we use the concept 'trolling', and I gave you my take on it, unrelated from the issue of whether or not you were or weren't successfully trolled in this concrete situation.

On that matter, avoiding detection as 'in troll-mode' is half the battle won. Attaining the objective of eliciting whatever reaction sought for is part two.


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## RoughEstimate (Mar 10, 2012)

Well.
This has been constructive.


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## Narrator (Oct 11, 2009)

jeffbobs said:


> In Internet slang, a *troll* is someone who posts inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[4] The noun _troll_ may refer to the provocative message itself, as in: "That was an excellent troll you posted".
> While the word _troll_ and its associated verb *trolling* are associated with Internet discourse, media attention in recent years has made such labels subjective, with trolling describing intentionally provocative actions and harassment outside of an online context. For example, mass media has used _troll_ to describe "a person who defaces Internet tribute sites with the aim of causing grief to families


Do you mean you agree?



psynite said:


> It is easier to do it in person,


I remember attempting to be cheeky as a child and make my mum laugh, I was offered haggis by my (Scottish) grandparents, and I replyed with 'euuugh why would anyone want to eat that?', thinking they and my mum would understand it wasn't typical of my behaviour to be so inconsiderate, but my mum was horrified. Hehe, I think it takes a rather skilled grasp of sarcasm, I've found mine is a little to harsh/blunt.


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## jeffbobs (Jan 27, 2012)

Liminality said:


> Do you mean you agree?
> 
> 
> 
> I remember attempting to be cheeky as a child and make my mum laugh, I was offered haggis by my (Scottish) grandparents, and I replyed with 'euuugh why would anyone want to eat that?', thinking they and my mum would understand it wasn't typical of my behaviour to be so inconsiderate, but my mum was horrified. Hehe, I think it takes a rather skilled grasp of sarcasm, I've found mine is a little to harsh/blunt.


which part are you refering too?


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## psynite (Feb 7, 2011)

Liminality said:


> I remember attempting to be cheeky as a child and make my mum laugh, I was offered haggis by my (Scottish) grandparents, and I replyed with 'euuugh why would anyone want to eat that?', thinking they and my mum would understand it wasn't typical of my behaviour to be so inconsiderate, but my mum was horrified. Hehe, I think it takes a rather skilled grasp of sarcasm, I've found mine is a little to harsh/blunt.


Yeah, it takes a little practice, and even then, some people will still take offence to it. People seem to get more sensitive the older I get. 



Graficcha said:


> I suppose you could have, I'm just a poor ol'e INTP who can't settle for dismissing what someone else is saying as bullshit/deceit with absolute certainty until they admit it.
> I hate being mind-read and while I can have strong suspicions, I can't claim to be able to think in someone else's stead and tell them what their motives are.
> 
> Also my own cynical side of not underestimating other people's potential for believing the weirdest things. 'm Already glad you were just cranking up the Fe-stance, I aaaalmost started to feel like a mean asshole for not at all supporting it.


The hunch was right, being a good troll is playing the long game sometimes, drawing it out, making them believe you despite the evidence against and then dropping the bomb on them that you were tricking them.


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## Tad Cooper (Apr 10, 2010)

Liminality said:


> I remember attempting to be cheeky as a child and make my mum laugh, I was offered haggis by my (Scottish) grandparents, and I replyed with 'euuugh why would anyone want to eat that?', thinking they and my mum would understand it wasn't typical of my behaviour to be so inconsiderate, but my mum was horrified. Hehe, I think it takes a rather skilled grasp of sarcasm, I've found mine is a little to harsh/blunt.


 Yeah, sometimes people need you to be really obvious with that sort of thing, especially in sensitive situations (like with grandparents, because they don't always get jokes). Then again, why would people eat innards? I guess kidney pie and liver and stuff is eaten, but then why not the whole animal? Why just select offal? >_<


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

psynite said:


> He was refering to me as a she, and IM TROLLING YOU ALL!!! :crazy:
> 
> I wasn't intending to be hurtful, just frustrating, but I let it devolve into a logic contest, so now I give up. I wanted to see if it was possible to troll the inferior, and I believe it is. jeffbobs, I have been trolling you, I admit, to see if I could do it without you knowing, but I have become bored.
> 
> I didn't think that everyone with Fe would get caught in the crossfire though lol.


It was fun to watch.


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## Narrator (Oct 11, 2009)

jeffbobs said:


> which part are you refering too?


You suggested one meaning of trolling, I suggested another, and you replied with a dictionary description of it, which seemed to suggest trolling to incite a particular reaction. But without more detail from you I wasn't sure what you were inferring with your post. You might have been clarifying your past definition to agree with mine by posting the description you did, but the way it was posted suggested you were supplying me with some evidence that would show me what was actually (more) correct, or something else I couldn't understand.



tine said:


> Yeah, sometimes people need you to be really obvious with that sort of thing, especially in sensitive situations (like with grandparents, because they don't always get jokes). Then again, why would people eat innards? I guess kidney pie and liver and stuff is eaten, but then why not the whole animal? Why just select offal? >_<


xD My grandparents are definately not in the 'don't always get jokes' category - well my grandma could be sometimes, but not in this case (It's just a facet of her character).
Why just select the outtards? Food is food is food to me - Who decided to milk a cow is more disturbing to me o.o. Haggis is pretty normal scottish food so it would have been insensitive for me to treat it as icky, though it wasn't that so much as my acting in a generically inconsiderate manner that was surprising/shocking.


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## CataclysmSolace (Mar 13, 2012)

ElectricSparkle said:


> You can troll people really horribly through the inferior.
> 
> (This is all theoretical btw, haven't tried these. And these only characterize the inferior response not the function itself).
> 
> ...


My inferior trolling weakness doesn't make any sense. Any1 explain it to me?


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## Tad Cooper (Apr 10, 2010)

Liminality said:


> xD My grandparents are definately not in the 'don't always get jokes' category - well my grandma could be sometimes, but not in this case (It's just a facet of her character).
> Why just select the outtards? Food is food is food to me - Who decided to milk a cow is more disturbing to me o.o. Haggis is pretty normal scottish food so it would have been insensitive for me to treat it as icky, though it wasn't that so much as my acting in a generically inconsiderate manner that was surprising/shocking.


 Haha I mean why just those bits? The Native Americans ate/used all but the hearts  why can't we do that if we eat kidneys and stomach lining? It's weird >> People used to eat sheep heads and tongue and now few people do! It's a waste ><


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## Narrator (Oct 11, 2009)

tine said:


> Haha I mean why just those bits? The Native Americans ate/used all but the hearts  why can't we do that if we eat kidneys and stomach lining? It's weird >> People used to eat sheep heads and tongue and now few people do! It's a waste ><


I'm pretty sure they eat other bits, and haggis is just one dish? Like sausages, or bacon, or liver etc, all just one dish. Haggis isn't all they eat.


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## madhatter (May 30, 2010)

As an Ti-dominant, one thing that really irritates me is when someone, like my INFP brother, asks me what my "favorite" part/character/scene/book/movie/etc. My INFP brother would always get mad at me because I would just say, "I don't know" or "I don't have a favorite" or something along those lines. I realize now, it's usually the NFs in my life and they're pushing me for a value judgment that I'm not willing or not capable to make. I just tell my brother now, "don't ask me that" and he's somewhat resigned to it but still incredulous.


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## Inguz (Mar 10, 2012)

Not separating subjective from objective in an argumentation is a perfect way to troll my Te.

_"If God existed he would have spoken with me in to believing in him."_


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## Coburn (Sep 3, 2010)

ElectricSparkle said:


> IFP (Te): Why keep going? It's not like you can control the outcome...


Not my inferior function but that comment would still piss me off.


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## Owfin (Oct 15, 2011)

ElectricSparkle said:


> ISJ (Ne): Here comes the out-of-control attack of the crazies...


ISJ: "Um, there's no crazies."

(extra irony 'cause inferior Ne makes it more likely that the ISJ will dismiss you as "conspiracy theorist")


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## electricky (Feb 18, 2011)

Owfin said:


> ISJ: "Um, there's no crazies."
> 
> (extra irony 'cause inferior Ne makes it more likely that the ISJ will dismiss you as "conspiracy theorist")


Yeah.... I was going for the being annoyed by out-of-nowhere predictions thing too. But I guess it doesn't work too well if you're able to easily dismiss it :tongue:


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## electricky (Feb 18, 2011)

Armageddon_Wasteland said:


> My inferior trolling weakness doesn't make any sense. Any1 explain it to me?


I was trying to draw on ISJs perhaps suspecting their own negative Ne moments to be a form of "craziness" or losing control, but especially not wanting to hear this confirmed from an outside source. This in addition to what I said above about it being uncomfortably predictive as well, is the trolling part. 

(But, at least one lesson learned: do not underestimate the ISJ's grip on reality....)



JuliaRhys said:


> Not my inferior function but that comment would still piss me off.


Now that you mention it, I may need to switch the IFP and the ETJ, and retitle those ones "how to deprecate the dominant."


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## Tad Cooper (Apr 10, 2010)

Liminality said:


> I'm pretty sure they eat other bits, and haggis is just one dish? Like sausages, or bacon, or liver etc, all just one dish. Haggis isn't all they eat.


 Haha I know the Scottish eat other things  I have a Scottish lecturer and grandparents-in-law XD They do eat alot of meat from what I remember though! Never met a veggie Scot (not that that's bad, it's just interesting to me, like the English and Europeans having different recommended fruit and veg amounts).



madhatter said:


> As an Ti-dominant, one thing that really irritates me is when someone, like my INFP brother, asks me what my "favorite" part/character/scene/book/movie/etc. My INFP brother would always get mad at me because I would just say, "I don't know" or "I don't have a favorite" or something along those lines. I realize now, it's usually the NFs in my life and they're pushing me for a value judgment that I'm not willing or not capable to make. I just tell my brother now, "don't ask me that" and he's somewhat resigned to it but still incredulous.


 Haha I know what you mean. I can never choose a favourite anything >_< People always ask "So who's your favourite Director/Actor" in my Film classes and I tend to give a list longer than my arm (and I have long arms).


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## Owfin (Oct 15, 2011)

I think a better one for ISJs is:

"But don't you think there's some deeper meaning to this?" *ramble on about significance*


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## Impact Calculus (Mar 29, 2012)

I think you would be better off going into extreme Ne mode and @#!*% off his Ni. (personal experience.)

I also think the thing with apples was more Ne than anything. He might subjectively like apples more than you, but he's not going to spontaneously start talking on an on about apples.


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## 543222187 (Apr 4, 2012)

ElectricSparkle said:


> IFP (Te): Why keep going? It's not like you can control the outcome...


...stop making me feel horrible...no wonder hamlet felt so depressed...


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## Narrator (Oct 11, 2009)

Owfin said:


> I think a better one for ISJs is:
> 
> "But don't you think there's some deeper meaning to this?" *ramble on about significance*


I would enjoy someone suggesting possibilities, or if they referred in a specific manner to something general, provided I liked them and they wern't being entirely unreaslitic.


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## counterintuitive (Apr 8, 2011)

*Guess my inferior function!*

I think my ISTP brother often hits a nerve with me...totally unintentionally. When describing an experience he had, he will try to recreate the entire situation for the listener, like "that thing was over there, this thing was here, that guy was there, I was here, and I went like this, and then this happened, and then I went like that..." etc. He will try to describe EVERYTHING about the actual event, just as it happened. It's amazing. The event is perfectly innocent -- often a part of one of his sports games. But I have a kind of silent meltdown -- sudden, extreme stress, almost like I'm allergic to the description. I can't stand it. It's not his fault at all, I mean, it's a perfectly reasonable description of an unobjectionable event. But it makes me experience disproportionately high amounts of stress.

What is my inferior function?

Is it even possible to figure it out from this description? lol (oops...sorry)

I'm not entirely sure myself, so guess away! But I'm pretty sure it's not Se because I'm not Ni-dominant.


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## silmarillion (Dec 11, 2010)

ElectricSparkle said:


> .
> ENP (Si): Your stubbornness is showing, along with that nervous tic of yours.
> IFP (Te): Why keep going? It's not like you can control the outcome...
> ITP (Fe): If you think your crying is going to help to manipulate, don't even try.


These, especially the ENP and IFP, would cause a riot, lol. The last one would probably just make me sad and self-conscious.


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## psynite (Feb 7, 2011)

ketchup said:


> *Guess my inferior function!*
> 
> I think my ISTP brother often hits a nerve with me...totally unintentionally. When describing an experience he had, he will try to recreate the entire situation for the listener, like "that thing was over there, this thing was here, that guy was there, I was here, and I went like this, and then this happened, and then I went like that..." etc. He will try to describe EVERYTHING about the actual event, just as it happened. It's amazing. The event is perfectly innocent -- often a part of one of his sports games. But I have a kind of silent meltdown -- sudden, extreme stress, almost like I'm allergic to the description. I can't stand it. It's not his fault at all, I mean, it's a perfectly reasonable description of an unobjectionable event. But it makes me experience disproportionately high amounts of stress.
> 
> ...


You are possibly an ENFP, but more likely a ENTP is my guess.


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## TaylorS (Jan 24, 2010)

The best way to troll my Ne Inferior is to start rambling on about some bat-shit crazy idea with no basis in fact and then when I start criticizing your nonsense go on a Postmodernist tirade about me being stuck in a "Scientific-Rationalist Meta-Narrative" for thinking that my facts are really facts and not just my opinion.

Perfect way to make me want to strangle you.


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## TaylorS (Jan 24, 2010)

Owfin said:


> Any ESP or spiritual stuff grinds my gears. I know the latter one isn't _stupid_, it's just not something for me. I want to know valid reasons for them existing, and people just shake their heads and tell me I should try to loose myself and my skepticism.


OH GOD, YES! New Age woo-woo drives me up the wall. one of best ways to drive me nuts is to claim Quantum Mechanics (the idiots alway say "quantum theory", LOL!) says your crap is correct (Yes, I'm talking to you, Deepak Chopra!).


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## Owfin (Oct 15, 2011)

TaylorS said:


> OH GOD, YES! New Age woo-woo drives me up the wall. one of best ways to drive me nuts is to claim Quantum Mechanics (the idiots alway say "quantum theory", LOL!) says your crap is correct (Yes, I'm talking to you, Deepak Chopra!).


But pyramids, now _those_ are quantum.


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## TaylorS (Jan 24, 2010)

Owfin said:


> I think a better one for ISJs is:
> 
> "But don't you think there's some deeper meaning to this?" *ramble on about significance*


No, there isn't, now shut up! :angry:

:laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## TaylorS (Jan 24, 2010)

Owfin said:


> But pyramids, now _those_ are quantum.


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## aef8234 (Feb 18, 2012)

Trolling based on what now?
Are these things you speak... words?
Or ramblings of a madman?


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## Inguz (Mar 10, 2012)

Trolling the ENP, Si-inferior: 
"You are going to work 40 hours a week, every week until you retire, get used to it."


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## electricky (Feb 18, 2011)

Inguz said:


> Trolling the ENP, Si-inferior:
> "You are going to work 40 hours a week, every week until you retire, get used to it."


.... Though I think this would be trolling most people in modern times :laughing: 

And ENP response: "You obviously don't know about (insert latest scheme of the week here)!"


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## SilentScream (Mar 31, 2011)

Just call an ENFJ "illogical".

Make sure you're wearing some sort of protective gear when you do.

As for INFJ's and INTJ's

"You need to get out of the house more."

"Can you get to the point, I need to be somewhere else."


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## Inguz (Mar 10, 2012)

ElectricSparkle said:


> .... Though I think this would be trolling most people in modern times :laughing:
> 
> And ENP response: "You obviously don't know about (insert latest scheme of the week here)!"


 Response: "Still 40 hours a week unless you're home taking care of kids, are ill in a disease or are homeless. Though you could try your luck with the lottery. *laughter*"

But on a more serious note, I don't think so! Of course I don't like the idea of 40 hours a week, but if the job is fun I find it very OK. And strong Si may actually like the idea of a structured future. It's a super effective troll weapon against inferior Si.


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## madhatter (May 30, 2010)

Jawz said:


> As for INFJ's and INTJ's
> 
> "You need to get out of the house more."
> 
> "*Can you get to the point*, I need to be somewhere else."


My mom is INFJ and I get extremely impatient with her when she's telling a story...she'll go off on tangents, or spend five minutes trying to remember if it was one or two weeks ago. Rather than getting snappy with her, I've developed a short hand sign language to tell her she needs to get to the point. I have also finally trained her not to leave 10 minute messages that include the recipe for the soup she made for dinner on my voice mail.


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## Narrator (Oct 11, 2009)

Inguz said:


> Trolling the ENP, Si-inferior:
> "You are going to work 40 hours a week, every week until you retire, get used to it."


Depends on what. If it's the same job, then no thanks.


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## Inguz (Mar 10, 2012)

Liminality said:


> Depends on what. If it's the same job, then no thanks.


 Just the structure and planning. Si and Ne are in conflict with each other.


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## psynite (Feb 7, 2011)

Trolling ENxP's....."this is how its done, don't change it, dont stray from the formula......why? Because that's how its done!"


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## Mind Swirl (Sep 7, 2011)

Jawz said:


> As for INFJ's and INTJ's
> 
> "You need to get out of the house more."


After saying they need to get out of the house, say "You need to be more spontaneous. You're boring!
Let's go on a random trip! Just drive and see where we end up! NO map/plan allowed!"


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## counterintuitive (Apr 8, 2011)

Inguz said:


> Trolling the ENP, Si-inferior:
> "You are going to work 40 hours a week, every week until you retire, get used to it."


I hope to work more than 40 hours a week, year round, and never retire!


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## Inguz (Mar 10, 2012)

ketchup said:


> I hope to work more than 40 hours a week, year round, and never retire!


 Though that's another extreme - working to escape reality.


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## counterintuitive (Apr 8, 2011)

Inguz said:


> Though that's another extreme - working to escape reality.


You could say that, but in this case, I was making a different point.


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## Inguz (Mar 10, 2012)

ketchup said:


> You could say that, but in this case, I was making a different point.


 That you like the idea of having your future structured?


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## counterintuitive (Apr 8, 2011)

Inguz said:


> That you like the idea of having your future structured?


Hell no! lol

I hope to find a job or better yet create my own job that I enjoy so much, I'd love to work more than 40 hours a week, year round, and never retire! It could also be a series of successive jobs. What others might consider work, I consider fun! Provided it's actually fun for me.


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## Worriedfunction (Jun 2, 2011)

missushoney said:


> Hmm well I am an INFJ and I dunno if it has anything to do with my functions and what not but I get really pissed when someone calls me something that's not true, or something rude. Cuss words (about me. I don't mind if people cuss but not at me.), "stupid", "idiot" and things about me being selfish or a bad person in some way gets me crazy. I especially hate if the person is saying I'm bad and making it seem like some other girl is an angel or less bad in some way. Urggh! >=( I try really hard to be a good person and when people try to tear that down, I feel like it's so unfair.


I think this annoys a lot of people, it certainly annoys me when my brother uses his inflated exaggeration of reality to play back a conversaion we've had to others and then tries to paint what I said in a negative or defensive light.


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## Naama (Dec 5, 2010)

INFP: say something totally ridiculous that only seemingly makes sense(and do it casually and as if you were being 100% serious about it), then wait for few seconds and watch them go silently like "hey wait a minute, wtf, lol no" before they verbalize it and get amused


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## Anubis (Nov 30, 2011)

I had someone say that I'm not spontaneous enough and I need to do things without thinking so I live life to the "fullest". That nearly set my head on fire. Inferior Se?


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## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

WinklePlum said:


> I had someone say that I'm not spontaneous enough and I need to do things without thinking so I live life to the "fullest". That nearly set my head on fire. Inferior Se?


I have no idea why this would be inferior Se more than anything else (hell, it might be 7th or 8th function Se).


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## Anubis (Nov 30, 2011)

JungyesMBTIno said:


> I have no idea why this would be inferior Se more than anything else (hell, it might be 7th or 8th function Se).


Y'know "living in the moment"/spontaneity is usually tied to Se. Most Se dom's are incredibly spontaneous. 

I don't know it really irked me when I was told that I'm not spontaneous though haha.


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## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

Yeah, it might be Se if it related to actions. Although spontaneity is also correlated to Ne (mainly in the dominant form), so maybe it was Ne if it related to coming up with ideas on the spot.


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## Anubis (Nov 30, 2011)

JungyesMBTIno said:


> Yeah, it might be Se if it related to actions. Although spontaneity is also correlated to Ne (mainly in the dominant form), so maybe it was Ne if it related to coming up with ideas on the spot.


Yeah physical-related. They want me to party more, but I hate parties and going on roadtrips and stuff that some friends want me to do. I really want to focus on school and writing


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## Extraverted Delusion (Oct 23, 2011)

I usually ask people if they would have sex with an inanimate object, with varying levels of complexity of what the object is depending on type.


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## Liontiger (Jun 2, 2009)

Pretty sure I just got trolled by the mere existence of this thread...but I don't think that has to do with my inferior.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 28, 2012)

Oh my god, this thread is fucking _brilliant_! I'm currently beaming, having laughed my ass off through the first four pages, and simultaneously having learning more about the functions. Three thumbs up!! :crazy:

I was confused about what was meant by the "inferior" function though, since I've primarily seen it refer to the fourth function - although in those cases, only the first four are mentioned or analyzed.

You can troll me quite well using Fe, telling me how I should feel about *whatever*. In retrospect, that's probably how and why my dad - who I assume is an ESFJ - sometimes gets on my nerves, via his strong Fe-dom.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Juan M said:


> @fourtines
> 
> In my life i have encounter a lot of Fi users, primary and secondary, i divide them in two groups, the matures and the inmatures (at the end the age doesnt matter in this issues)... the matures are not selfish, they search for armony and have a very very good use of their own emotions, theyre the epitome of emotional intelligence, they understand others as they understand theyr own little worlds, take criticism with the desire of improve and are positive, they have a sense of logic "of emotions" and tend to UNDERSTAND, they are not easily disturbed by people (not touchy, having their own flow, relaxed people ever and the fight by values not simple desire).
> 
> On the other side, the inmature ones are one of the worst type that i can tell, selfishness combined with stupidity its like a little king trying to rule the world with his little own kingdom, their rules comes from their inner wolrd and as slaves they dont question them, they only thing in how it affect them, selfish and inmature doesnt understand that the other people have their own point of view, they dont UNDERSTAND other people, very touchy by little things that disturb them as criticism, depresion and fury junkies... *very low intelligence (emotional and intelectual)* and are like rebelious childs that only search armony for themselves not realising that the real armony comes when you see below your inner world... thats why Fi users have to improve their secondary (primary for Fi secondary ones, oh well...), the function of understanding Ne and Se, seeing below your little world and understanding the other little worlds will make and Fi primary user mature.


Nah, that's not true because plenty of brilliant IxTJs I've met with immature Fi have very high intellectual intelligence.

Pretty sure you're just an Fe type with your panties in a bunch, over-generalizing.

I'm guessing you're actually ENTP and more in touch with that Fe, bro.


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## Juan M (Mar 11, 2011)

fourtines said:


> Nah, that's not true because plenty of brilliant IxTJs I've met with immature Fi have very high intellectual intelligence.
> 
> Pretty sure you're just an Fe type with your panties in a bunch, over-generalizing.
> 
> I'm guessing you're actually ENTP and more in touch with that Fe, bro.


Oh no, of course that with that statement im talking about "Fi inmature PRIMARY-secondary interchange" users (with very inmature secondary function ), of course that Si and Ni primary users can have intellectual (naturally) and emotional intelligence if they develop them well... dont twist my words and read well please.

Im not talking about inmature Fi as you can see (that would be ExTJ...and no, not at all), but Fi users who are inmature because they dont/cant use their Ne and Se to understand very well.

Also im talking about my experience with them, nothing more, thank god that im alive, have an ISFP sister... its hard because of little details judge everything without seeing the rest... but she is developing her Se and becoming mature, im proud of that.


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## luemb (Dec 21, 2010)

@fourtines It makes sense that more than one of the functions can "troll" you, since you have 4 shadow functions plus your inferior. If people try to get you to use those functions they will probably make you squirm (or want to hit something) or if you see someone else trying to use those functions against you, you probably won't like it either. They will all "troll" you in different ways, and what type of reaction ("I feel double-bound", "I feel tricked" ect) is what Beebe was after.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Juan M said:


> Oh no, of course that with that statement im talking about "Fi inmature PRIMARY-secondary interchange" users (with very inmature secondary function ), of course that Si and Ni primary users can have intellectual (naturally) and emotional intelligence if they develop them well... dont twist my words and read well please.
> 
> Im not talking about inmature Fi as you can see (that would be ExTJ...and no, not at all), but Fi users who are inmature because they dont/cant use their Ne and Se to understand very well.
> 
> Also im talking about my experience with them, nothing more, thank god that im alive, have an ISFP sister... its hard because of little details judge everything without seeing the rest... but she is developing her Se and becoming mature, im proud of that.


Your dichotomies are too extreme, though, there are more than two types of Fi users, and even immature or underdeveloped Fi users don't necessarily have "low IQs" what a bunch of crap...are you just peeved they aren't strong with Ti? ...and it shows a general overall intolerance for Fi. It's also important to note that an Se dom doesn't have "underdeveloped" Se, but may actually be reactive or impulsive BECAUSE OF Se. Derp.

The same Fi user can be very intelligent, have mature insight, tolerance, and harmony...but also have bad days where they're touchy, moody, and emo. 

Get over yourself. Your black and white thinking makes me think YOUR functions need some developing.


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## Graficcha (Dec 25, 2011)

fourtines said:


> Your dichotomies are too extreme, though, there are more than two types of Fi users, and even immature or underdeveloped Fi users don't necessarily have "low IQs" what a bunch of crap...are you just peeved they aren't strong with Ti? ...and it shows a general overall intolerance for Fi. It's also important to note that an Se dom doesn't have "underdeveloped" Se, but may actually be reactive or impulsive BECAUSE OF Se. Derp.
> 
> The same Fi user can be very intelligent, have mature insight, tolerance, and harmony...but also have bad days where they're touchy, moody, and emo.
> 
> Get over yourself. Your black and white thinking makes me think YOUR functions need some developing.


'YOUR functions need some developing!'

My god, that's one heck of a hilarious insider insult.


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## Narrator (Oct 11, 2009)

fourtines said:


> Your dichotomies are too extreme, though, there are more than two types of Fi users, and even immature or underdeveloped Fi users don't necessarily have "low IQs" what a bunch of crap...are you just peeved they aren't strong with Ti? ...and it shows a general overall intolerance for Fi. It's also important to note that an Se dom doesn't have "underdeveloped" Se, but may actually be reactive or impulsive BECAUSE OF Se. Derp.
> 
> The same Fi user can be very intelligent, have mature insight, tolerance, and harmony...but also have bad days where they're touchy, moody, and emo.
> 
> Get over yourself. Your black and white thinking makes me think YOUR functions need some developing.


It sounds like he's trying to describe something like a dominant-tertiary loop - where one or more functions are underdeveloped and so the personality stops functioning in a healthy manner. It's not literally a 50/50 split - maybe 33% of the Fi dominants he meets are immature -, and there will be lots of variation within those two categories, just those are sort of two filters - perhaps seeming more extream to someone with lower Fi, or his way of understanding.


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## Juan M (Mar 11, 2011)

Liminality said:


> It sounds like he's trying to describe something like a dominant-tertiary loop - where one or more functions are underdeveloped and so the personality stops functioning in a healthy manner. It's not literally a 50/50 split - maybe 33% of the Fi dominants he meets are immature -, and there will be lots of variation within those two categories, just those are sort of two filters - perhaps seeming more extream to someone with lower Fi, or his way of understanding.




Yeap, thank you, exactly... 

@fourtines

And also, i didint say that ALL Fi dominants fall in those two groups, thats why i stand the IN MY EXPERIENCE there... 

If you are an IxFP who has an over developed Fi, you tend to develop your Ni/Si MORE than your Se/Ne, thats an inmature and bad use of your functions, and tend to happen to everyone, the people who suffer of this is like this always, not only in bad days... thats an INMATURE IxFP (For example cant take criticism with maturity)

Im dissapointed fourtiness, never thought that you were this touchy, why just dont calm down, put aside the insults and have a rational talk? YES Inmature IxFPs tend to be stupid and withvery low IQ (also called ape iq), like inmature IxTPs, ExTPs, ExFPs, etc etc. Because of that, inbalance.

Well i will not feed with meat the cockroaches, i seriously will stop here, i will not ruin this thread, so goodbye my queen get onto your little kingdom, but before, i order you to insult me, please my highness.

(Also for the thread, this can troll every inferior, its about respect, dont show respect to any inferior function and you will push their buttons, every function stands for it)

http://www.personalitypage.com/html/ISFP_per.html


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Juan M said:


> Yeap, thank you, exactly...
> 
> @fourtines
> 
> ...


You're the one being all condescending and rude, I'm just correcting a false dichotomy, because I see this kind of thing in people who either reject Fi as the inferior or have Fi as the 7th or 8th function. 

I think it really shows a lack of education on your part to say that people in dom/tert loops or people who are immature have low IQs. It's so wrong as to be hilarious.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Liminality said:


> It sounds like he's trying to describe something like a dominant-tertiary loop - where one or more functions are underdeveloped and so the personality stops functioning in a healthy manner. It's not literally a 50/50 split - maybe 33% of the Fi dominants he meets are immature -, and there will be lots of variation within those two categories, just those are sort of two filters - perhaps seeming more extream to someone with lower Fi, or his way of understanding.


While I appreciate your attempt to build bridges of understanding, his comments about IQ cannot be abided.


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## Graficcha (Dec 25, 2011)

My two cents:

IQ's not to be confused with someone's general display of 'intelligence'.
While it's clearly a leap too far to claim any group has 'lower IQ', p'raps the sir meant to evoke the concept of 'people who don't seem to show much rational thought or metacognitive capabilities (despite potential to)'.


If this wasn't at all what was being hinted at, then excuse me for playing devil's advocate, and I'll gladly join the 'wow, you idiot' camp.


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## MegaTuxRacer (Sep 7, 2011)

allisreal said:


> Haha yeah...I can be extremely reactive to people telling me how I should I do things when what I'm doing doesn't make any sense to them. Much of the time I'm thinking, "Why do you assume I care that this 'makes sense'? As if we all want the same thing?..."


Next time someone says that, if you really want to throw them, say, "I know it doesn't make sense! That's why I'm doing it!"


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## DreamStepper (Feb 27, 2012)

jeffbobs said:


> I have taken this into account already. Ogen has already talked about trolling others for the purpose of understanding. what is better than a test subject who is willing to be trolled to the extreme to see if the tests are viable or true



I agree with that. I would enjoy being trolled for the sake of understanding. If it upsets me, then I know what will upset me. But knowing its not for pure harm changes the meaning.


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## hylogenesis (Apr 26, 2012)

WinklePlum said:


> When debating with an INTP, confidentially say, "cite your sources." After the INTP gets angry, tell them to smile.


Only works if we don't have sources to cite.


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## Perhaps (Aug 20, 2011)

fourtines said:


> People can unknowingly troll me on-line by simply using Ti dom, especially supported by Ne. In certain conversations it seriously makes me want to scream "SHUT UP. SHUT UP YOU. THAT'S NOT IMPORTANT. THAT'S NOT REALISTIC. WHY ARE YOU SUCH A PEDANTIC TWAT."
> 
> It gets me screaming all right. I'm not saying all INTPs do this to me, obviously, some INTPs are lovely lovely people...but yes I've encountered these folks on-line. It's like they can't rip apart my argument with facts, so they start nit-picking what I see as tiny insignificant details and keep trying to turn around logic deeper and deeper into what I perceive as being an abyss of time-wasting insanity.


This. It's difficult for me to see this behavior as anything other than an attempt to derail the conversation because the individual in question does not want to admit that their argument is flawed. It's like they're just shifting the goalposts and then smugly declare victory whenever people finally get sick of humoring them. You know it's bad when they seize on _spelling and grammatical errors_, of all things. It's inexplicably infuriating.


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## Reicheru (Sep 24, 2011)

i think it's pretty bad form for people to use a tool for self-discovery and -development to upset others/"troll" them, even if it is just out of curiosity.

and how does IQ = an immature personality? my ENFP ex is definitely unhealthy, but he scored extremely high on an IQ test (unless he cheated... gasp!).

lol, ah the good ole Fe vs. Fi contests. "my Feeling function is better than YOUR Feeling function!!!" ;]


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## Lunarprox (Feb 16, 2012)

pmj85 said:


> Perhaps it's a Ni-dom thing? I'm supposed to be an INFJ.


More like N in general.


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## pmj85 (Jul 31, 2010)

Aye, most probably!


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## Nymma (Apr 24, 2010)

Actually, the best way to troll me is not with the inferior function(although it certainly cause an extreme annoyance), but by denying the value of the dominant function.

When I reveal that I don't like or see the value in a certain thing/task, my TJ parents often tell me to *"make yourself like it!" or "Learn to see its importance/how you can apply it".
*
....(Yeah, and I can introduce you to a special finger, too).


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## Frenetic Tranquility (Aug 5, 2011)

How to troll inferior Se:

"Why do you always show off by such superficial means?"
"Is gluttony your best friend?"
"Closet whores aren't my type."


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## petitpèlerin (Apr 23, 2012)

Nymma said:


> Actually, the best way to troll me is not with the inferior function(although it certainly cause an extreme annoyance), but by denying the value of the dominant function.


Excellent point. I feel the same way. And I wonder if maybe any good troll of the inferior function works best if tied to the dominant, or at least to the person's strength in general.

Like, maybe, for ESFJ (inf Ti): "what you're saying doesn't make any sense"


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## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

Frenetic Tranquility said:


> How to troll inferior Se:
> 
> "Why do you always show off by such superficial means?"
> "Is gluttony your best friend?"
> "Closet whores aren't my type."


Somehow, I largely doubt most of this (sans the 2nd statement) is largely characteristic of inferior Se in the way you stated it - I mean, I swear as an inferior Se type myself that I wouldn't even be offended by most of this, because it's just so out-of-character (I've never met inferior Se types who even really know how to show off by superficial means in a stereotypically superficial way (e.g. being exactly "closet whores" like something you'd see off of Jersey Shore) - I think inferior Se would mainly involve trying too hard to be original (in the general meaning of the statement, rather like inferior Si types, but the how is different), to the point that the attempts to do so look superficial (because after all, why would someone have to "try" to be original to begin with - original is original) - like you can tell the person's faking it (and honestly, I suspect it's common for inferior Se types to have insecurities around reflecting the trueness of their sincerity via inferior Se). So what would be more offensive would be saying something along the lines of "You think that's originality...try again, because I don't even remember it" and THAT would most definitely get an inferior Si or Se type's blood boiling with embarrassment and fury. This would basically hit the person's inferiority complex around their inferior function more than saying something that they would probably be largely unaware of about themselves (I mean, if I really do come off superficially IRL, which I doubt (I think it's the other way around, where some superficiality could do me some good every once in a while, socially speaking and such), I'm definitely not aware of it. Usually, my inferiority complex is something more along the lines of feeling like I don't know how to control the impact I make on other people and wish I was able to have a greater sense of this - so, in the end, I could be obsessively reviewing everything I did and wondering if it was enough to leave a memorable impact on others - I'm guessing being memorable and noteworthy in how you come off would be largely under the control of Se. Frankly, I've always marveled in a way at how the dominant Se types can do this so easily - my sense of this is largely at the mercy of my intuition. To trigger someone's inferiority complex around the inferior function, you need to focus on the deficits they have around it (after all, it's called the "aspirational" function for a reason) - I frankly largely doubt most people would really mind having the excesses pointed out, since at least this side of them would be getting a certain subconscious attention they crave (and the excesses are largely what people are not consciously aware of how they come off around, so they would probably be more surprised than offended by the comments about these - they might not be offended at all about comments like the ones you made above, since people aren't very egotistical about how they come off around the inferior function - to them, they might just kind of laugh it off like a joke and think "No way. I never would've noticed that about myself." They might find this a little embarrassing though, in the sense that they weren't very aware of it and might get insecure about what others think of them, although this shouldn't be so bad, since, as I said before, people are largely not very egotistical around the inferior function).


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## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

On the other hand, trolling inferior Ni would probably look like something more along the lines of:

"You're not trying hard enough to be original. Try to dig a little deeper."


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## Frenetic Tranquility (Aug 5, 2011)

JungyesMBTIno said:


> Somehow, I largely doubt most of this (sans the 2nd statement) is largely characteristic of inferior Se in the way you stated it - I mean, I swear as an inferior Se type myself that I wouldn't even be offended by most of this, because it's just so out-of-character (I've never met inferior Se types who even really know how to show off by superficial means in a stereotypically superficial way (e.g. being exactly "closet whores" like something you'd see off of Jersey Shore) - I think inferior Se would mainly involve trying too hard to be original (in the general meaning of the statement, rather like inferior Si types, but the how is different), to the point that the attempts to do so look superficial (because after all, why would someone have to "try" to be original to begin with - original is original) - like you can tell the person's faking it (and honestly, I suspect it's common for inferior Se types to have insecurities around reflecting the trueness of their sincerity via inferior Se). So what would be more offensive would be saying something along the lines of "You think that's originality...try again, because I don't even remember it" and THAT would most definitely get an inferior Si or Se type's blood boiling with embarrassment and fury. This would basically hit the person's inferiority complex around their inferior function more than saying something that they would probably be largely unaware of about themselves (I mean, if I really do come off superficially IRL, which I doubt (I think it's the other way around, where some superficiality could do me some good every once in a while, socially speaking and such), I'm definitely not aware of it. Usually, my inferiority complex is something more along the lines of feeling like I don't know how to control the impact I make on other people and wish I was able to have a greater sense of this - so, in the end, I could be obsessively reviewing everything I did and wondering if it was enough to leave a memorable impact on others - I'm guessing being memorable and noteworthy in how you come off would be largely under the control of Se. Frankly, I've always marveled in a way at how the dominant Se types can do this so easily - my sense of this is largely at the mercy of my intuition. To trigger someone's inferiority complex around the inferior function, you need to focus on the deficits they have around it (after all, it's called the "aspirational" function for a reason) - I frankly largely doubt most people would really mind having the excesses pointed out, since at least this side of them would be getting a certain subconscious attention they crave (and the excesses are largely what people are not consciously aware of how they come off around, so they would probably be more surprised than offended by the comments about these - they might not be offended at all about comments like the ones you made above, since people aren't very egotistical about how they come off around the inferior function - to them, they might just kind of laugh it off like a joke and think "No way. I never would've noticed that about myself." They might find this a little embarrassing though, in the sense that they weren't very aware of it and might get insecure about what others think of them, although this shouldn't be so bad, since, as I said before, people are largely not very egotistical around the inferior function).


Most of what you said relates to ways to troll your Fi, not your Se. If you don't get stressed out that often, you probably wouldn't really care about inferior insults. When people get stressed out, they start resorting to the inferior, and since the inferior is in direct contrast to their main function, they usually kind of don't like the way they act at this time. For example, an inferior Se would resort to things like - eating alot, sex binges, gambling, being loud for no reason, excessive cleaning, etc. So for those who indulge in these things, they will feel insecure about it, because they don't like how they acted at that time (people like/respect their dominant functions, and others that use their dominant functions, naturally).


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## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

Frenetic Tranquility said:


> Most of what you said relates to ways to troll your Fi, not your Se. If you don't get stressed out that often, you probably wouldn't really care about inferior insults. When people get stressed out, they start resorting to the inferior, and since the inferior is in direct contrast to their main function, they usually kind of don't like the way they act at this time. For example, an inferior Se would resort to things like - eating alot, sex binges, gambling, being loud for no reason, excessive cleaning, etc. So for those who indulge in these things, they will feel insecure about it, because they don't like how they acted at that time (people like/respect their dominant functions, and others that use their dominant functions, naturally).


Getting stressed out isn't Fi (or F for that matter - it's a physiological/emotional reaction). I'm of the opinion that people would want attention around the inferior function by acting out in annoying ways around it much of the time - I honestly couldn't care less about biting my fingers half to death and walking around in public like that (at least the action of doing this doesn't bother me, but the consequences might make me self conscious - it's still not the same thing as an inferiority complex though, because by getting involved in the inferior function, like Se in my case, is acting on it to remove any inferiority complex around acting on it - I mean, at that point, you have an idea of what can happen by acting on it, so the idea of acting on it should be less bothersome, knowing what can come from it), although I could get insecure about the lack of foresight I had around this, due to the consequences of people jumping to the wrong conclusions that I have a disease or flesh-eating bacteria and then, I'd have to deal with the hysterics around this.


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## Frenetic Tranquility (Aug 5, 2011)

JungyesMBTIno said:


> Getting stressed out isn't Fi (or F for that matter - it's a physiological/emotional reaction). I'm of the opinion that people would want attention around the inferior function by acting out in annoying ways around it much of the time - I honestly couldn't care less about biting my fingers half to death and walking around in public like that (at least the action of doing this doesn't bother me, but the consequences might make me self conscious - it's still not the same thing as an inferiority complex though, because by getting involved in the inferior function, like Se in my case, is acting on it to remove any inferiority complex around acting on it - I mean, at that point, you have an idea of what can happen by acting on it, so the idea of acting on it should be less bothersome, knowing what can come from it), although I could get insecure about the lack of foresight I had around this, due to the consequences of people jumping to the wrong conclusions that I have a disease or flesh-eating bacteria and then, I'd have to deal with the hysterics around this.


That isn't what I meant at all. I never suggested Fi is due to stress. The inferior function comes into most prevalent use under stress. This is Se for INTJ/INFJ. Fi also plays a role in it for INTJ specifically, due to the tertiary function being a supporting role to the inferior function. In other words, sensory actions that revolve around feelings are stress relief for INTJ. I just listed the more negative manifestations, because those would be the ones that someone could be trolled with (since there is a self-loathing aspect). That doesn't mean everyone of a type exhibits these behaviors or could be trolled in the same way uniformly.

Nail biting is your stress relief, makes sense. It's sensory.

Sorry but I think you are missing the point of the thread. Trolling someone in general isn't the same as just trolling inferior functions (although if someone is resorting to their inferior function often, it certainly can help troll them).


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## Enfpleasantly (Mar 5, 2012)

Frenetic Tranquility said:


> That isn't what I meant at all. I never suggested Fi is due to stress. The inferior function comes into most prevalent use under stress. This is Se for INTJ/INFJ. Fi also plays a role in it for INTJ specifically, due to the tertiary function being a supporting role to the inferior function. In other words, sensory actions that revolve around feelings are stress relief for INTJ. I just listed the more negative manifestations, because those would be the ones that someone could be trolled with (since there is a self-loathing aspect). That doesn't mean everyone of a type exhibits these behaviors or could be trolled in the same way uniformly.


So true! And when a function is inferior, it also won't be as refined as in Dom or aux position. 

ENFP caught in grip of Si is exacerbated by Te. So they can become fact obsessed, and rigid. While and ENTP caught in Si will have Fe exacerbating it making them more emotional, feel like no one likes/loves them, etc.


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## renna (Jan 28, 2011)

Miss Scarlet said:


>


I think I just peed my pants laughing. OOOOooooh man!


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## renna (Jan 28, 2011)

Reicheru said:


> i think it's pretty bad form for people to use a tool for self-discovery and -development to upset others/"troll" them, even if it is just out of curiosity.


I've noticed NT types LOVE pranks. Love love love.


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## Miss Scarlet (Jul 26, 2010)

renna said:


> I think I just peed my pants laughing. OOOOooooh man!


Haha! Good, cause this is the dumbest thread ever!


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