# Dating a narcissist



## psychgirl95 (Mar 10, 2014)

WhateverLolaWants said:


> Donna Williams: Not Thinking in Pictures
> 
> I'm not autistic and think almost entirely in picture. This is pretty common. The most common thinking style, actually.
> 
> ...


That doesn't mean it's a myth though. Also, that's not a study or literature review, so that's not proof of anything. Part of my research on autism involves its neurobiological basis and some studies have actually found evidence consistent with Grandin's "theory." (Here's a free one.) While others may think in pictures, evidence simply suggests autistic people are more likely to do so. 

I wasn't comparing her to Hare, actually, but I suppose I can understand why you would think I was. I was trying to give you another example of the abstract titles you disagreed with. Someone near comparison to Hare (pertaining to the topic of autism) for example, could be Baron-Cohen. 

I'm not sure how I could have employed the appeal to authority fallacy, considering I've linked you to _multiple opinions_ in my posts? I never stated that Hare was correct and that everyone else is wrong or that Hare should be believed simply because of his title. Rather, I stated the obvious about him being well-known - since you brought up the topic of wanting to be specific about authority figures - and also linked you to other views, some of which actually contradict Hare's (for example, that there are different conceptions of psychopathy).

Also, you do realize that you've actually employed the strawman's fallacy by misquoting me and making assumptions (such as by insinuating that I said Grandin was an academic authority, though I never did), right? I could also say that you attempted to use the appeal to authority in your quote pertaining to NPD being similar to ASPD (note how you specifically pointed out that the author is a psychologist, which one could say would mean you wanted to show his ethos on the topic, and thus proving the truth to this statement). Not to mention that the link you posted about visual thinking is an example of an anecdotal logical fallacy. I don't understand why you're still trying to nitpick when you accused me of that very same thing and said you didn't want to discuss the topic anymore. You're being hypocritical. This is pointless and again, we're messing up the OP's thread, which isn't right. I'd be happy to continue this discussion with you via PM though.


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## Jeremy8419 (Mar 2, 2015)

My primary ex, I am convinced had NPD, and likely ASPD as well.
I was diagnosed with codependency in early 20s (still working at maintaining boundaries) and the Wikipedia article on it brings up the NPD/Codependency relationship as NPD being like a body, and Codependency being like the limbs. This is essentially what the NPD made me feel like, a part of her existing to be subservient to her will. She did not treat me (more so myself, due to the codependency) or others close to her as people. She treated people as though they naturally existed to become a part of her body, to do things for her. If someone wasn't able to be used to fulfill her Vision of herself, that person didn't exist. She was what is listed as Amorous Narcissist on the Wikipedia entry, so it was primarily used against male friends, relatives, and suitors. She didn't have an interest in existing beside men, only in making them a will-less part of herself.

Other things noticed:
If you weren't being 100% selfless, then you were being selfish. If she wanted anything, it was normal. If you wanted even the most minor thing that negatively affected her, you were the most selfish person alive. E.g., spend 8 hours and hundreds of dollars in town, then ask that we eat Mexican (she likes it) instead of at the Steak place she is in the mood for, and get called selfish and be insulted until you give in.
Worked an average of 4 hours a week for a year, yet considered herself to work hard. Slept like 14 hours a day. Watched TV for 4. Visited with people for 4. Yet, somehow, she always thought of herself as being "really good." Never contributed anything to anyone. Only ever took, and seemed to think she had a right to.


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## koalaroo (Nov 25, 2011)

JasmineC said:


> @_koalaroo_:
> I think it's possible that researchers and therapists will find something to help people with personality disorders. I truly hope this will happen; and if the theory about psychopathy having a neurological basis to it is actually true, then perhaps researchers will really able to treat them (once we learn how to rewire brains lol). There may be hope for people with personality disorders after all - even if it doesn't come for decades. :kitteh:


Psychopathy, sociopathy and narcissism all come with serious errors to brain structure. Based on the way these disorders work, if there was a neurotransmitter that was not made or utilized properly in their brains, I doubt they would be compliant with a medication regimen. So, no, I don't see it as ever being reliably treatable. Personally, I think people with these disorders should be culled from the rest of the community, sterilized, and dropped off on an island somewhere.


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## Jeremy8419 (Mar 2, 2015)

@koalaroo
Isn't that why they often end up in jail or an asylum?
"That would be harsher punishments for parole violators, Phil." Miss Congeniality.


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## Dao (Sep 13, 2013)

Jeremy8419 said:


> Isn't that why they often end up in jail or an asylum?


Most narcissists are adept at getting away with their outrageous behaviors because they wear a polite mask to cover their abuse.


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## Jeremy8419 (Mar 2, 2015)

@Shimmerleaf
Perhaps that is part of the reason I attest to my ex also being ASPD. Would get tickets or fines for various things, and when warrants were issued, her answer was to pay via time spent in jail, rather than just paying the fines. "I'll just sit in jail a few days, it's not a big deal."


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## General Lee Awesome (Sep 28, 2014)

@Jeremy8419

you ex sounds terrible!!! I am glad it is your ex 


@ op, your thread should be "how to run away from a narcassist" because you will be the third wheel in a relationship with a narcassist.


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## General Lee Awesome (Sep 28, 2014)

the401 said:


> love knows no boundaries......
> 
> if it is love then anything can happen.
> 
> she/he can change too.


lol, you are still young, and way too idealistic. people do not change. they only can modify their superfacial behaviours but their core self (ie their instincts) never change.


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## the401 (Mar 1, 2015)

johnson.han.3 said:


> lol, you are still young, and way too idealistic. people do not change. they only can modify their superfacial behaviours but their core self (ie their instincts) never change.


if it is the narcissist disorder than yea that's true i mean it's an disorder.......

if it is just the trait that we all have then they can change.....

im not saying change is easy, its going to be really hard........ and most people fail but i've seen many christians change their whole lives with the help of jesus christ.


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## General Lee Awesome (Sep 28, 2014)

the401 said:


> if it is the narcissist disorder than yea that's true i mean it's an disorder.......
> 
> if it is just the trait that we all have then they can change.....
> 
> im not saying change is easy, its going to be really hard........ and most people fail but i've seen many christians change their whole lives with the help of jesus christ.


yes, I have seen many people turning their lives around without the help of jesus christ. what people really need is their own desire to change and that desire can be gotten anywhere. noone can really help them. I talked to a lot of kids who had amazing life transformations. from little angry hoodlums to more empathetic, giving people.


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## the401 (Mar 1, 2015)

johnson.han.3 said:


> yes, I have seen many people turning their lives around without the help of jesus christ.


yea turn their life around , that doesn't mean change .......im talking about real change here


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## General Lee Awesome (Sep 28, 2014)

the401 said:


> yea turn their life around , that doesn't mean change .......im talking about real change here


how do you know they changed? can you read their mind? or are you purely judging it base on their change in behaviour. people change their behaviour due to various reasons, but usually an uterior reason. ie, the stakes could be high for not change. if I really believe doing bad will make me go to hell, then yea, I will be good to advert that. its funny though how some people do good because they want to go to heaven. Im like if god did exist, he will know that you did good because you want to go to heaven. lol

unless the jesus you are referring to is a Hispanic brain surgeon that did some cutting in their brains, then that all make sense


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## koalaroo (Nov 25, 2011)

the401 said:


> if it is the narcissist disorder than yea that's true i mean it's an disorder.......
> 
> if it is just the trait that we all have then they can change.....
> 
> im not saying change is easy, its going to be really hard........ and most people fail but i've seen many christians change their whole lives with the help of jesus christ.


The traits can't be changed. Things like a lack of empathy are hardwired.


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## the401 (Mar 1, 2015)

koalaroo said:


> The traits can't be changed. Things like a lack of empathy are hardwired.


ok we have different opinions ok.... I'm cool thanks


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## the401 (Mar 1, 2015)

johnson.han.3 said:


> how do you know they changed? can you read their mind? or are you purely judging it base on their change in behaviour. people change their behaviour due to various reasons, but usually an uterior reason. ie, the stakes could be high for not change. if I really believe doing bad will make me go to hell, then yea, I will be good to advert that. its funny though how some people do good because they want to go to heaven. Im like if god did exist, he will know that you did good because you want to go to heaven. lol
> 
> unless the jesus you are referring to is a Hispanic brain surgeon that did some cutting in their brains, then that all make sense


it's not just about that...... christians believe because they truly do......

anyways lets not get off topic here lol, last post about christians.


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## koalaroo (Nov 25, 2011)

the401 said:


> ok we have different opinions ok.... I'm cool thanks


Yes, we have different opinions, but lack of empathy is empirically shown to be hardwired (it's linked to lower amounts of gray matter in the left anterior insula). People with NPD, AsPD, etc, have lower amounts of gray matter in this vital area of the brain in which things like compassion are generated. So, I'm going to go with my opinion is backed by evidence where yours is backed by nothing of value. People with NPD are built to harm others; eliminating from society is, TBH, a necessity.


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## the401 (Mar 1, 2015)

koalaroo said:


> Yes, we have different opinions, but lack of empathy is empirically shown to be hardwired (it's linked to lower amounts of gray matter in the left anterior insula). People with NPD, AsPD, etc, have lower amounts of gray matter in this vital area of the brain in which things like compassion are generated. So, I'm going to go with my opinion is backed by evidence where yours is backed by nothing of value. People with NPD are built to harm others; eliminating from society is, TBH, a necessity.


i didn't say narcissist disorder, i said the trait...... we are all narcissist on some level ok? that is fact

please!!!!!!


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## General Lee Awesome (Sep 28, 2014)

the401 said:


> i didn't say narcissist disorder, i said the trait...... we are all narcissist on some level ok? that is fact
> 
> please!!!!!!


no, only narcissist have narcissistic traits. its those traits that make them a narcissist. lol it would be funny to see an narcissist without narcissistic traits. a healthy self pride and respect is not narcissistic at all. o.o in order to survive, we need to learn how to look after ourself. people are selfish by nature, because thats how we survive. its biology =o. I can definitely see the value of being a little selfish ( i just need to put it to practice lol).


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## Jeremy8419 (Mar 2, 2015)

I think what senor rock lee is saying is that behaviors that are observed in people with NPD as part of their symptoms are often observed in people without NPD, e.g., vanity, inflated ego, selfishness. The behaviors in these people are changeable, those with NPD are not. Narcissism is also used as a catch-all term by society as someone who has those behaviors, not just as someone who meets the DMIV (or whatever they are up to now) classification of NPD.


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## Jeremy8419 (Mar 2, 2015)

nar·cis·sism
(när′sĭ-sĭz′əm)
n.
1. Excessive preoccupation with or admiration of oneself. See Synonyms at conceit.

2. A personality disorder characterized by self-preoccupation, need for admiration, lack of empathy, and unconscious deficits in self-esteem

He is using #1. Y'all are using #2. Both correctly use the adjective form.


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## koalaroo (Nov 25, 2011)

the401 said:


> i didn't say narcissist disorder, i said the trait...... we are all narcissist on some level ok? that is fact
> 
> please!!!!!!


People in this thread are specifically talking about NPD and the narcissistic TRAITS (such as lack of empathy) that relate to NPD. We aren't talking about some nebulous narcissistic trait when we're talking about traits. We're talking about a cluster of personality traits that on the whole make up narcissistic personality disorder. People who are narcissistic in the layman's sense may or may not have NPD; however those people with NPD (which is what I have been talking about the ENTIRE time) have specific traits that result in NPD and these people are incurable.


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## Jeremy8419 (Mar 2, 2015)

Well, to be fair... OP only said narcissistic, so anyone replying to OP would be correct using either method. From OP's responses, I think she thought her dude is narcissistic, not NPD. Seemed to not already know what NPD is at all, meaning she probably wasn't trying to figure out if he has NPD. Likely her dude is simply conceited and selfish and she wanted to know if you can have a healthy relationship with one. NPD by contrast has 0 chance of a healthy relationship, since it is by definition the complete and utter rejection of healthy relationships in any fashion.
Given that those talking about NPD are most certainly adults, and those who aren't talking about NPD are most certainly children... Maybe we should not badger the children about their naivety to a very dark and frightening reality.


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## Toru Okada (May 10, 2011)

Not sure if my experience counts as someone with NPD or BPD or HPD or all three, but I'm pretty sure "cluster-B" was written all over her. To summarize, you're basically there to bolster them or validate them. When your use runs dry, you are on the chopping block. Mutual respect can't really be had. They will annoy you. They will talk about how much they hate their parents too often. They're dramatic. They love complacent partners but will simultaneously be condescending about it. They're grandiose victims. They don't really value your opinions.


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## koalaroo (Nov 25, 2011)

Jeremy8419 said:


> Given that those talking about NPD are most certainly adults, and those who aren't talking about NPD are most certainly children... Maybe we should not badger the children about their naivety to a very dark and frightening reality.


I disagree. I think instead of sex education, school-aged adolescents should have relational education, which would be a combination of sex education and a basic introduction to abusive behaviors and the traits of abusers. This would include talking about so-called "dark triad" traits and individuals.


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## IIIIII (Oct 2, 2013)

I have been with one, its pretty horrible. They are capable of and will do anything to get their way. Feelings are just a game to them, and the level of of bullshit you have to endure because of them and the situations that they create is never worth it. You should get away from them post haste, narcissistic people do not change, that would mean they have to admit that the things they do are wrong and admit to themselves that they need professional help, since that will never happen you are just wasting your life on trying to see the good in them. Narcissistic people know what they are doing is wrong and hurtful and they just don't care, they get off on being fucked up to other people.

17 year veteran of a narcissistic relationship.


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## Jeremy8419 (Mar 2, 2015)

koalaroo said:


> I disagree. I think instead of sex education, school-aged adolescents should have relational education, which would be a combination of sex education and a basic introduction to abusive behaviors and the traits of abusers. This would include talking about so-called "dark triad" traits and individuals.


I would be inclined to agree, if the setting was one of formal education. You could potentially educate juveniles via social media, but in all likelihood, you're much more likely to potentially see senor rock lee call another boy on the playground a Machiavellian Fiend before trying to Reverse Lotus him and the OP slander her future ex as a Narcissist with Antisocial Personality tendencies after he gets a haircut and decides to date a different 13 year old girl.


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## the401 (Mar 1, 2015)

Jeremy8419 said:


> Well, to be fair... OP only said narcissistic, so anyone replying to OP would be correct using either method. From OP's responses, I think she thought her dude is narcissistic, not NPD. Seemed to not already know what NPD is at all, meaning she probably wasn't trying to figure out if he has NPD. Likely her dude is simply conceited and selfish and she wanted to know if you can have a healthy relationship with one. NPD by contrast has 0 chance of a healthy relationship, since it is by definition the complete and utter rejection of healthy relationships in any fashion.
> Given that those talking about NPD are most certainly adults, and those who aren't talking about NPD are most certainly children... Maybe we should not badger the children about their naivety to a very dark and frightening reality.


hmmmmmmm...... i wasn't talking about NPD and I'm 19 I'm a legal adult in the US...........

and i can say that i am almost certainly mature because i have the ability to see things from different perspective and not just bath in my own bigotry.....

i consider myself a realist and i KNOW that the real world is not all fun and games...... it's a very dark place a place full of bigotry, rude people, close mindedness ,a lot of other negative things........

just wanted to point that out......


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## Jeremy8419 (Mar 2, 2015)

It was a hypothetical analogy, senor rock lee. No need to be defensive.


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## the401 (Mar 1, 2015)

Jeremy8419 said:


> It was a hypothetical analogy, senor rock lee. No need to be defensive.


what was exactly..... ? 

and may i ask why you keep calling me rock lee? rock lee from (naruto anime series) is my inspiration it is not me?

like for example if your inspiration was kobe bryant, i wouldn't call you that now would i? 

may i kindly ask you to stop mocking me?


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## Jeremy8419 (Mar 2, 2015)

Because when I replied to someone on one page, it was about you, who was on another page, and all I could remember was your avatar. Now I am using it as a personal connection with you based upon a character that I also like.


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## the401 (Mar 1, 2015)

Jeremy8419 said:


> Because when I replied to someone on one page, it was about you, who was on another page, and all I could remember was your avatar. Now I am using it as a personal connection with you based upon a character that I also like.


EHHHHHH!!!!
!!!!! sorry for not understanding you! 

you know some people act very differently and it is very hard to tell!

i have mistaken your intent for what it is not, and i am very sorry for that.

but then again there was no way for me to find out until you actually told me.........

anyways i am sorry for misunderstanding you.


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## Jeremy8419 (Mar 2, 2015)

No problems, senor.

OP is going to have a heck of a time sifting through the last page. Let's let her have her topic back.


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## Dao (Sep 13, 2013)

This really cannot be emphasized enough in case anyone else is having this consideration.

You cannot make things work with a narcissist any more than you can share a bed with an African leopard or stuff a black mamba down your shirt and carry it around with you. It's in their very nature to lash out and inflict grievous wounds. Every nice gesture is a lie; they are predatory habits. Run!



> An insincere and evil friend is more to be feared than a wild beast; a wild beast may wound your body, but an evil friend will wound your mind.


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## elpis (Mar 24, 2013)

Shimmerleaf said:


> This really cannot be emphasized enough in case anyone else is having this consideration.
> 
> You cannot make things work with a narcissist any more than you can share a bed with an African leopard or stuff a black mamba down your shirt and carry it around with you. It's in their very nature to lash out and inflict grievous wounds. Every nice gesture is a lie; they are predatory habits. Run!
> _An insincere and evil friend is more to be feared than a wild beast; a wild beast may wound your body, but an evil friend will wound your mind_/QUOTE]
> ...


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## EndsOfTheEarth (Mar 14, 2015)

Shimmerleaf said:


> This really cannot be emphasized enough in case anyone else is having this consideration.
> 
> You cannot make things work with a narcissist any more than you can share a bed with an African leopard or stuff a black mamba down your shirt and carry it around with you. It's in their very nature to lash out and inflict grievous wounds. Every nice gesture is a lie; they are predatory habits. Run!


Yes this. They are simply incapable of forming a bond with anyone except themselves, learn that to your peril. They see others as objects, not people and have no care nor concern for you beyond what you can give them in terms of narcissistic supply. The longer you stick around the more you will give and receive absolutely nothing in return. It will also be harder to leave the longer you allow them to condition you with alternating affection and rage. It's a very scary thing. You cannot love a narcissist into health and normality, it simply does not happen. They are like black holes, they can consume everything you give them and walk away from you in an instant.


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## He's a Superhero! (May 1, 2013)

koalaroo said:


> People with AsPD cannot love.


Um, what?! You do realize that ASPD is a spectrum right?


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## He's a Superhero! (May 1, 2013)

Nitsazd said:


> He did have his umbilical cord wrapped around his neck at birth...
> And his childhood was chaotic, his mother is very much verbally abusive to this day.
> It's like you are describing him.
> 
> How do I gain the strength to leave without being guilted with feelings of abandoning him??


I don't understand why you should feel guilty over any of this? You weren't the cause of his troubled childhood, and that is no excuse for him to mistreat others, especially his s.o. If he is mistreating you then aren't you worth better treatment?


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## koalaroo (Nov 25, 2011)

He's a Superhero! said:


> Um, what?! You do realize that ASPD is a spectrum right?


I'm talking about AsPD (antisocial personality disorder) the personality disorder, not autism spectrum disorder. The acronym AsPD (with the lowercase "s") is indicative of antisocial personality disorder. There are two personality disorders that start with "A", avoidant and antisocial. Avoidant is indicated with AvPD and antisocial is indicated with AsPD.


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## He's a Superhero! (May 1, 2013)

koalaroo said:


> I'm talking about AsPD (antisocial personality disorder) the personality disorder, not autism spectrum disorder. The acronym AsPD (with the lowercase "s") is indicative of antisocial personality disorder. There are two personality disorders that start with "A", avoidant and antisocial. Avoidant is indicated with AvPD and antisocial is indicated with AsPD.


Antisocial personality disorder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thank you for confirming that you don't really know that much about ASPD.

To clarify to anyone reading these posts: Many people with ASPD do feel a degree of love/affection for certain other human beings, which includes many Sociopaths and Psychopaths.


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## finesthour (Jun 12, 2014)

If you're involved in someones narcissism. It leads to them wanting to destroy you :happy: :happy: :happy:


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