# Cognitive Function Loops: Practical and Conceptual Problems



## Figure (Jun 22, 2011)

*Problems with Cognitive Function “Loops”*

*What is a CF Loop?*​There is frequent discussion on the mythological cognitive function “loops” on our forum - situations in which one perceives that the first and third cognitive functions, which are the same in orientation (introverted or extraverted), somehow work in tandem to cause unexpected mental states. The dominant and the tertiary are said to act in a more intimate way than usual, causing bewildering shifts in one’s environment that are often described as being extremely positive, or extremely negative in nature. Though there can also be times in which CF loops are more “neutral” in feeling, my observations on our forum suggest that they are often extreme-enough to catch our attention - their effects are, in some instances, even considered with more lasting psychological conditions such as depression, hyperactivity, and bipolarism! 


*What’s My Loop?*​According to pop-typological theory, cognitive function loops involve your first and third cognitive function. If you’re ENFJ, it’d be a loop between Fe and Se; if you’re ISTP, your loop is Ti and Ni; INTJ Ni and Fi, and so on. Refer to a cognitive function hierarchy map to learn your loop. There is a huge catch though, as I will describe later. 


*What Does a Loop Feel Like?*​List your experiences below. Here’s mine, as an INTJ (Ni and Fi) - negative, positive:



Ni comes up with a wealth of assumptions and predictions about a given situation, how it will unfold over time. Fi “acts up,” causing negative feelings to make every prediction Ni comes up with seem failure-prone and worthless. Ni returns with deeper insight into the already-established gloom and doom, and Fi returns, making it even worse. 
Example: I get little sleep after cramming for an exam, and walk away from it reflecting on the questions I was asked. Ni provides multiple ways in which I will be marked off, on multiple questions. I feel as though I must have failed. The more I think about each question, the more I realize that the test is more significant than I thought it would be. I begin to believe that if I can’t do the problems on the exam, I won’t be able to perform well in a job that requires such skills. Alternative career ideas bubble from nowhere, but none really lead to a meaningful future. Existential crisis arises, and I wonder why I exist to begin with. Life is meaningless. The problem is, I actually did really well on the exam without knowing it yet.  
 



Ni peeks behind an event to see how it might unfold, and Fi sees it as positive. Ni finds _more _ways to make the event seem more meaningful to a pre-established future goal. Fi returns, making the new assumptions seem even more amazing. Utter bliss ensues. 
Example: A few weeks before, I took an exam for another class. The average of the class was a 70, but I scored a 92 because material was easy for me to understand, and I had a good relationship with the professor beforehand, working through problems long before the test. I’m elated, and find ways to relate conceptual homologies of the current material to ones of other subjects and courses that are, in fact, very different in scope. I believe that I can apply my ideas in class 1 to class 2 because I feel good about my own conceptions of the material. I sign up for these new classes next semester because I can justify commonalities between subjects, and I felt good about my current class. The problem is, I’m taking Financial Statement Analysis now, not Accounting.  
 

These are quasi-fictitious examples, but as you can see, the tone of these states are quite extreme, particularly because they involve a perceiving function (Ni) and a feeling function (Fi). The tone may be different for other types, but I would imagine that they still carry enough disparity from the norm to cause a sense of departure from normal modes of thinking. In both situations, the loop occurs when Ni perceptions are compounded by Fi, creating a vortex of uni-directional presumptions that are sometimes acted upon. 


*What are the Conceptual and Practical Problems with Loops?
*​The most significant issue I take with loops, as far as they are described on our forums, is that _their very definition excludes the working of the auxiliary function_. A “loop” implies that the dominant goes straight to the tertiary, bypassing the influence of the auxiliary. This, as you can see in my example, is simply not the case. Te plays a crucial role in both situations, creating the logical bridges between previously unrelated Ni perceptions. _After _this, Fi comes in and creates emotional undertones of each. Te was the reason each Ni presumption in the exam scenario was deemed likely to occur - others crossed the mind’s eye, but were thrown out for being less likely to occur. 

Additionally, notice that neither situation involved moderation of the fourth/inferior function. In the first example, I spent almost _no _time observing the outside world (INTJ inferior Se), or attempting to realize the practical, down to earth realities of the test result - it really hadn’t been graded yet! In the second example, Se was overstimulated, getting wildly into the moment of having scored well, causing me to recklessly sign up for courses that were irrational to attempt. Clearly, Se plays a role in such INTJ “loops” as well. My theory is that the inferior and dominant functions are, in fact, deeply related to each other - such that proper functioning of both demands moderated, mutual input.

This is my problem with “loops.” They don’t exist, as assumed by our forum pop-typology. They are indeed “loops,” but not just between the dominant and tertiary. These situations, I imagine, are really more just a deprivation of the inferior function - though I do call them “loops” because they’ve come to be identified that way so frequently. if someone came up with a new name, I’d be overjoyed. 

Moreover, many of us who know what a loop “is,” try to fix it in the wrong ways by ignoring the auxiliary and inferior, and blaming the tertiary. If all of our functions are involved in a “loop,” focus on the tertiary solves only part of the problem. 


*How to Cope with "Loops" - the Real Ones
*​Everyone will feel “loopy” from time to time. It’s simply part of life. Here are some things that have worked for me though:



*Time*. Many times, the effects of CF loops will go away with time. This may be due to the inability of the tertiary function to be energized for significant amounts of time. I find that very often, I eventually wear out of my madness and return to normal states. This does not, however, prevent future “loops” from popping up again.  
*Education.* It helps to understand why we’re thinking, feeling, and behaving the way we do when a “loop” occurs. Without understanding the interactions between cognitive functions, we are lost in the dark wilderness - at least for awhile, but again, the unpredictability is itself maddening. Know that a “loop” is unpredictable, and that it is normal.  
*Don’t be alone*. I find that “loops” are easier to handle if I’m around people who share at least some (2 or more) or my first four functions. The most effective “treatments” have involved time spent with those whose dominant is my inferior (Se doms for an IN_J), but any dosage of this function has, in my experience, helped immensely. This is, of course, just from experience, and may not work wonders for everyone. it also requires doing things that seem odd, or usually unthinkable to our default modes of thinking. I do think most everyone will find, however, that going through a “loop” alone is incredibly difficult to overcome.


----------



## FlaviaGemina (May 3, 2012)

LXPilot said:


> *Time*. Many times, the effects of CF loops will go away with time. This may be due to the inability of the tertiary function to be energized for significant amounts of time. I find that very often, I eventually wear out of my madness and return to normal states. This does not, however, prevent future “loops” from popping up again.


Very accurate  I just 'get bored' of Fi-ing after a while and stop having those feelings.

Let me describe a recent experience. Maybe you can tell me whether this is an Ni-Fi loop.

I was supposed to teach a pupil a new-ish kind of course. There's a co-ordinator for this kind of course and I assumed that seeing as she's the co-ordinator she must know how it works.
So I asked her how it works and she just told me some superficial bla bla. I spotted some problems with the structure of this new course (not something she had done wrong, but something to do with the government and the agency that invented this course).
So I asked her again, she just told me the same blabla again and didn't even understand my question at all.
= Ni seeking information
Now I could have made a plan to go on the internet and find out for myself. But I thought she ought to know these things and also, it's not part of my job to do this and if the business manager found out that I'm sitting on the computer looking for information rather than working with children, he'd throw a fit and say I'm not working. (This is a very real scenario, not just my personal paranoia. This guy spies on people and claims they aren't working, when they actually are). --> attempting to use Te but got prevented from it by my own fears (which in this case do have a basis in reality)
So I kept asking people for information, but nobody knew, least of all the co-ordinator. So I felt like everybody hates me and how am I supposed to do my job if nobody tells me the information that I need. = Fi
--> I got stressed and started to hate the co-ordinator and planned how my disabled pupil could accidentally murder her for me and how the pupil wouldn't go to prison for it because she's disabled. 
Then it turned out that my colleagues had the same experience with the co-ordinator and it _was_ her who was to blame.
So I started to plan my own thing without her and got bored of her immediately to the point where I see her as an 'insignificant' nuisance who has nothing to do with me.


----------



## zynthaxx (Aug 12, 2009)

The more I read about the functions, the more I agree that a CF-loop isn't just a Pri-Tert loop. 
What I would like to repeat, though, is that forcing yourself to do stuff against the nature of your primary and tertiary attitudes (meaning to focus outside yourself for introverts, and to introspect for extroverts) is what seems to break the "loop" for most people. The "easiest" way to achieve this, is to focus on stuff that activates your secondary function. When you achieve a balance between your primary, secondary and tertiary functions, the inferior isn't a problem.


----------



## Figure (Jun 22, 2011)

FlaviaGemina said:


> I just 'get bored' of Fi-ing after a while and stop having those feelings.


Yeah, I do this too. It just....runs its course after awhile. I do believe we appreciate help with our tertiary, just in doses - something we value, but don't have the cognitive endurance to handle for long periods of time. 



> Let me describe a recent experience. Maybe you can tell me whether this is an Ni-Fi loop.


Actually, if I had to separate a part that might be "loopy," it'd be this



> So I kept asking people for information, but nobody knew, least of all the co-ordinator. So I felt like everybody hates me and how am I supposed to do my job if nobody tells me the information that I need. = Fi
> --> I got stressed and started to hate the co-ordinator and planned how my disabled pupil could accidentally murder her for me and how the pupil wouldn't go to prison for it because she's disabled.
> Then it turned out that my colleagues had the same experience with the co-ordinator and it _was_ her who was to blame.


Where Ni is supposing that everyone dislikes you, and Te judging it so based on logical rationales to support that hunch. Then, Fi making you feel like the turd queen. And, Ni coming up with more hunches as to what could happen next. And Te telling you they could be dangerous. And Fi making you feel even worse. And so on. These loops can actually run their course very quickly - not so much, I find, through the course of many days. 



zynthaxx said:


> What I would like to repeat, though, is that forcing yourself to do stuff against the nature of your primary and tertiary attitudes (meaning to focus outside yourself for introverts, and to introspect for extroverts) is what seems to break the "loop" for most people.


I would definitely agree with this. Interestingly, I've also had a lot of success with positive input for the inferior by those who use it well (dom or auxil users). Like, for an INTJ, an ESTP saying "we're going to the shooting range, come with" because it somehow totally redirects Ni onto something tangible. Maybe if an Fe-dom did something for an ISTP to let them know they really are appreciated and cared about? I don't know, just floating possible theories here.

This would definitely be damn-near impossible to do on one's own.


----------



## FlaviaGemina (May 3, 2012)

LXPilot said:


> I would definitely agree with this. Interestingly, I've also had a lot of success with positive input for the inferior by those who use it well (dom or auxil users). Like, for an INTJ, an ESTP saying "we're going to the shooting range, come with" because it somehow totally redirects Ni onto something tangible. Maybe if an Fe-dom did something for an ISTP to let them know they really are appreciated and cared about? I don't know, just floating possible theories here.
> 
> This would definitely be damn-near impossible to do on one's own.


For me it seems to be the opposite. I always get Ni-Fi loops when I'm forced to work with ESFPs. I ask them something on a system level and they show me a worksheet (I know how to make a worksheet, grrrrrrrrrrrrrr, that's not what I asked). They think I'm dumb and annoying because I ask questions. I think they are dumb and annoying because they seem to evade my questions. They make lots of suggestions (You could do....), I want them to give me a clear order. They think I'm not doing any work because I keep asking them what they want me to do (when meanwhile I've developed my own scheme and am implementing it). I think they're not doing any work because they don't see the big picture. LOL. I guess it's as bad for them as it is for me.


----------



## Iridescent (Dec 30, 2011)

Kind of on topic, but off topic at the same time, but, anyone got any idea how to get an ESFP/ENTJ (Not sure which, he's been in one for as long as I've known him.) friend out of an Se/Te loop? He's already started to lecture me more about my life choices, repeatedly telling me what courses I should choose, just so I can be around him for near enough all the time. Not to mention telling me that I'm crazy whenever I try something he's too scared to do, or a coward when I don't want to do something he does. It's like he has no comprehension of the fact that I kind of need to go at things at my own pace, otherwise, as demonstrated in the past, I get injured. Badly. Thoughts?

EDIT: Meant to post this here, crap. http://personalitycafe.com/myers-briggs-forum/127790-loops.html


----------

