# General characteristics of gut types



## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

in many ways, 1s, 8s and 9s are a lot more different than they are similar, but I've a number of general similarities between them:
1) *Composure:* obviously, not all gut types are going to be 6th Form principals at a posh London academy (you would be hard pressed to find an 8w7 of this ilk), but gut types are generally the least defensive triad and are unlikely to feel personally attacked easily.
2) *Lack of nervous micro gestures:* every type has their own insecurities, but gut types are the most down-to-earth triad and tend to lack the anticipatory quality more common in heart types and, especially, head types.
3) *Consistent energy:* note this doesn't necessarily mean _low_ energy (Sexual 8 and Sexual 1w2 can even have higher-than-average energy), but the vibe and intensity level of gut types tends to experience less fluctuations than other types (though this can also apply to competency types. 5s and 3s are generally much more consistent than 6s and 7s and 2s and 4s respectively).
4) *Minimizing people:* this is the source of gut types feeling less easily threatened than the other triads, though the specific technique will vary based on the type. 8s view people as "smaller" than them, 9s tune people out and 1s patronize people and view them sort of like disobedient children. this can present a bit of a paradox because it might clash with the 1's notion of what "proper" behavior is. most 1s place a high premium respect, but they often struggle with coming across as condescending and have difficulty biting their tongue in instances of incompetence or poor character. 
5) *Minimizing their own emotions:* 1s minimize impulsive and "inappropriate" emotions**, 8s minimize "softer" emotions (sensitivity, love, melancholy, etc) and 9s minimize....pretty much everything. All gut types have a tendency to minimize feelings of hurt and tend to overestimate their own psychological sturdiness. To be fair, they generally _are_ sturdier than most people of other types, but this can lead to relegating a lot of toxic emotional baggage to the shadow and not realizing they have been hurt or abused until several years later.
**though they may, ironically, indulge in blatantly hedonistic desires depending on the 1's specific value system.


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## charlie.elliot (Jan 22, 2014)

Very nice! Most of those fit me...with the exception of "lack of nervous micro gestures" (Which I do have). But I agree that generally body types don't have them.

Overall, body types have a solid, steady presence. Also lack of high response to fear/anxiety, but I think you touched on that in the first point. 

Also the more I learn about 8, 9, and 1, the more the anger seems to be a unifying trait, rather than 3 distinct kinds of anger. I'm just struck by what it means to be an anger type and it really unifies the 3 body types. 
if you're a body type, your whole focus is your own presence is the world around you. its kinesthetic but also psychological. That's why anger arises so much: because of the feeling of constantly contacting the world around you-- you often don't fit the way you'd like, and that causes the friction and the anger. 

Also @Swordsman of Mana, you're a 1? didn't you used to be a 7? or an 8? Just curious


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## Oyashiro-Sama (Sep 23, 2015)

I am Enneagram 8 is true that gut types are the most "animals" of all types, just following our instincts, but I know many types 1 behave as types 6 even types 5, you type 1 are the most "future oriented" than gut types


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## FakeLefty (Aug 19, 2013)

Interesting! Are you gonna do the same analysis of head and heart types?


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

FakeLefty said:


> Interesting! Are you gonna do the same analysis of head and heart types?


maybe


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## Philathea (Feb 16, 2015)

good list!



> 1) Composure: obviously, not all gut types are going to be 6th Form principals at a posh London academy (you would be hard pressed to find an 8w7 of this ilk), but gut types are generally the least defensive triad and are unlikely to feel personally attacked easily.


in general yes; but from personal experience, my very republican social 1w2 mother seems to take anything even remotely liberal as a personal slap in the face :laughing:



> and 1s patronize people and view them sort of like disobedient children.


ugh so true. Although, granted, I am her actual child.


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## Figure (Jun 22, 2011)

I think the common thread between 8, 9, and 1 is* Pushback:
*
*8's* try to control their surroundings, and thereby directly push against it. While 8's can be underratedly receptive towards hearing others out when they have issues or being open to a new and better way of coming up with a solution for something, they also have a habit of pushing back, either in putting their energy towards defending their own interest or in agreeing with what they're given and jumping right into it to overcome the challenge. They tend to pit themselves against other people even when they are trying to help them and can challenge others by simply putting more force into how they interact with them. Both are a reflection of the passion of Lust, and putting too much energy into what they do. 

*9's* push back by simply not doing what they are asked to do when they truly do not want to do it. Not all, but many 9's are also very open in expressing that there is an easier way to do something that is being imposed on them, or that doing it wouldn't matter anyway. Either way, they simply do not do what they don't want to do and remove themselves from the immediate need either by withdrawing, having a meltdown and losing their ability to do anything, finding a way to get out of doing what they don't want to do (or have others do it), or imposing a distraction onto themselves or others. 9's can be very defensive not so much of their "inner peace," but of their autonomy to not be bothered by things they feel resigned to not being able to do. 

*1's *push back because their passion of Anger causes them to by reflex stand against their experiences. They tend to have an internal, idealized concept of what they believe should be the case, and leverage their ability to see error to reject anyone or anything that departs from that ideal. They can also stand against their own actions, and take it upon themselves to go on "missions" against adversaries, in the form of things that they feel need to be changed. They may have a sense that they are completely self-sufficient, the only ones who are right, and should not need anything from anyone to do what they need to do to be right. In so isolating themselves as such, they impose their inner intolerance for themselves, others, and their environment onto their outer world. 



All 3 gut types are also very persistent, can continue on without their needs being met, will tend to minimize the importance of their needs (emotionally, and sometimes physically), and lose sight of inner, personal priorities in favor of those that reside in the outside world. All 3 also tend to become deeply engrossed in the things that they do, not finding it as easy to step back from their immediate experience and aggregate, opportunize, or question information in a way that doesn't correspond to their stance with/against it.


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## RobynC (Jun 10, 2011)

@_Swordsman of Mana_

I guess you came up with 1w9 because you have ties to 7w6 and 1w9 and 5 look alike?


@_Figure_

Uh, the description of 1, despite not being my type, kind of looks eerily like me when I was around 8-12


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## Tater Tot (May 28, 2012)

All of this is so me, especially the part about overestimating psychological sturdiness. I pretty much view myself as invincible. :laughing:


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> in
> 3) *Consistent energy:* note this doesn't necessarily mean _low_ energy (Sexual 8 and Sexual 1w2 can even have higher-than-average energy), but the vibe and intensity level of gut types tends to experience less fluctuations than other types
> 
> 4) *Minimizing people:* t
> 5) *Minimizing their own emotions:* .



on item 3, we won't ever SHOW inconsistent energy to someone we don't trust - vulnerability.

on the other two items, EVERY type treats others differently, and every type has a different relationship with their emotions.


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

Tater Tot said:


> All of this is so me, especially the part about overestimating psychological sturdiness. I pretty much view myself as invincible. :laughing:



as an 8w7, i'm the unstoppable force. 

I had a friend - infp 9. she was the immovable object. she was the granite under the mountain. I could never get her to budge, move, change. she deflected, kept me from getting a good grip or under.

When done, she didn't move, but she never tried to stop me either.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

drmiller100 said:


> on item 3, we won't ever SHOW inconsistent energy to someone we don't trust - vulnerability.


but it's not just what they show. they genuinely have consistent, centered energy. they don't need to project it like a heart or head type might



> on the other two items, EVERY type treats others differently,
> and every type has a different relationship with their emotions.


that goes without saying. I am talking specifically about minimization, not treating people differently in general. that's far too broad to be a useful topic of any conversation


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> but it's not just what they show. they genuinely have consistent, centered energy. they don't need to project it like a heart or head type might


Oh. that makes more sense.


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## Tater Tot (May 28, 2012)

drmiller100 said:


> as an 8w7, i'm the unstoppable force.
> 
> I had a friend - infp 9. she was the immovable object. she was the granite under the mountain. I could never get her to budge, move, change. she deflected, kept me from getting a good grip or under.
> 
> When done, she didn't move, but she never tried to stop me either.


Did she usually go along with what you wanted? I think the reason I go along with others is because truly very few things bother me, and I seem to handle things that do bother me better than most other people, so it's like "I'll put my needs/wants aside because I know that I can take it." The few things that do cross the line, you would have to physically drag me to do. 

A couple weeks ago I was dehydrated, and my doctor told me I needed to go to the hospital for an IV, and admittedly, I acted really immaturely about it. :laughing: It was in my best interest and it would have made me feel better, but I hate being hospitalized, and I just wouldn't do it. I never actually said no, because I knew it would be embarrassing if I actually used the word 'no' and ended up going anyhow, but I started bargaining with her and exploring other options immediately. "How much Gatorade do I need to drink tonight, and in what intervals do I need to drink it?







" But they pretty much would have had to drag me. I even told her, "This is about as close as I come to getting upset." It actually did me good to get upset about it because my blood pressure and pulse was low, and when she said the word 'Hospital' it jolted my body back to speed, in a sense. She took my vitals again after we had the discussion and it was back to normal, lmao.


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## charlie.elliot (Jan 22, 2014)

I've always been confused about stubbornness in Type 9.... on one hand, we go along with others, but on the other hand we're stubborn... I mean, it makes sense to me, but the real question is, how/why are other types NOT stubborn? Or are they? 
It seems like other types, especially 1s and 8s, have just as much, or more, reason to be stubborn. Is it a general Body type thing? Any ideas?


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## Figure (Jun 22, 2011)

charlie.elliot said:


> I've always been confused about stubbornness in Type 9.... on one hand, we go along with others, but on the other hand we're stubborn... I mean, it makes sense to me, but the real question is, how/why are other types NOT stubborn? Or are they?
> It seems like other types, especially 1s and 8s, have just as much, or more, reason to be stubborn. Is it a general Body type thing? Any ideas?


Interestingly, I see 9's as being the _most_ fundamentally resistant of those three types. 

The 9's I know superficially "go along with" others, but one has to ask if it is truly going along with if you're not fully engaged and proactive in what you go along with? I see that as resistance too. It's kind of like telling someone "okay, I'll do that" then very much knowing that person's inability to truly force you to do something you don't want to do and how little you actually care about what they're pressing you on. There's almost an aspect of type 3 in a 9's "going along with"; they construct an image of going along, but actually don't want to, don't truly do it, or know they don't have to. 

You may not see it in yourself, but I know 9's (and yes, 9w1) who are tough as nails when it comes to outlasting difficult situations. Sure, it's because they can't bring themselves to do anything about them and zone out instead, but they are tough cookies nonetheless for enduring those situations without being affected. 

I think the other types can be stubborn in a slew of different senses, but not an in instinctive way like 8, 9, and 1. All sorts of types come to mind - CP6, 3, Self Pres 4's/7's, 2's, even some 5's. Their stubbornness, however, isn't a resistance to being imposed upon. If you impose a scenario or yourself onto the autonomy of an 8, you'll get a lot of rigidity in their stance and they'll pretty much be unbending, perhaps aggressive back to you. Do it to a 9 and you get the aforementioned. Do it to a 1, and you'll be refused, and corrected for being wrong. There's this deep sense of personal agency vs. the environment that's only with the gut types, and I think can be felt viscerally even just interacting with them, in the sense of, if you push the person they will push back in some way. It's not that the other types don't show this, but the gut types impulsively go to it as their first reaction.


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

Tater Tot said:


> Did she usually go along with what you wanted? .


no. she did what she wanted unless it was measurable or other people would see it. 

she was an evil, narcissistic person, and NOT typical anything. 

INFP's can be stubborn once they set their minds though.


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

Figure said:


> Interestingly, I see 9's as being the _most_ fundamentally resistant of those three types.
> 
> The 9's I know superficially "go along with" others, but one has to ask if it is truly going along with if you're not fully engaged and proactive in what you go along with? I see that as resistance too. It's kind of like telling someone "okay, I'll do that" then very much knowing that person's inability to truly force you to do something you don't want to do and how little you actually care about what they're pressing you on. There's almost an aspect of type 3 in a 9's "going along with"; they construct an image of going along, but actually don't want to, don't truly do it, or know they don't have to.
> 
> ...


Yes. This. I actually see 8's as being the LEAST stubborn of these types for BEING changed. If you want to change me, or my environment, and you come at me head on, I'll blow back in your face, and blow back hard. Once I know WHY you want something, often I'll say "sure, ok", and give me a bit of time, and I'll change direction. 
9's SAY they are willing to move, but nothing happens. Fi 9's are especially stubborn.
1's can be moved, but it takes WORK and persistence......

OTOH, if I decide I'm gonna get something done ie change the world, build something, implement shit, I've not met another type which comes close to an 8. We get shit done.

As an entp I may get bored. I'm not as persistent as an ENTJ or ESTJ 8, or maybe even an ESTP 8. But if I really make my mind up, I can indeed get shit done and no once touches an 8 who is on a roll to change a situation.


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## stiletto (Oct 26, 2013)

As an 8w9 with a 9w8 husband, I'd say the description strums nicely.


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## charlie.elliot (Jan 22, 2014)

@Figure (+ anyone else)
So in what situations are Nines stubborn? If someone is trying to get you to do something that you don't want to do, is it wrong to keep refusing? Would other types give in where a Nine wouldn't?
I guess I don't relate because I've never in my life been irresponsible. I've never been in the situation of someone telling me I had to do something for my own good that I wasn't already doing.... because I've always done everything I'm supposed to do. And I've independently chosen to do many things that were good for me but that I didn't necessarily have to do. Also my parents have always been hands-off, laissez-faire kind of people. 
The only thing I can think of is my dad telling me I should do yoga.... (and I never have). Its not that I'm against yoga, its just that its not a priority and I dont feel particularly inspired. If someone plopped down a yoga mat right in front of me and was like "I'm doing yoga right now, join me!" I'd be like "sure!" 

If someone is trying to get me to have an agenda or priority thats not particularly important to me, why is it wrong to refuse? When I already am engaged in what IS important to me (as well as being important in general)?


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## Flaming Bassoon (Feb 15, 2013)

drmiller100 said:


> I had a friend - infp 9. she was the immovable object. she was the granite under the mountain. I could never get her to budge, move, change. she deflected, kept me from getting a good grip or under.
> 
> When done, she didn't move, but she never tried to stop me either.


This is exactly it. People are often surprised at how stubborn I really am.


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## Recede (Nov 23, 2011)

charlie.elliot said:


> @_Figure_ (+ anyone else)
> So in what situations are Nines stubborn? If someone is trying to get you to do something that you don't want to do, is it wrong to keep refusing? Would other types give in where a Nine wouldn't?
> I guess I don't relate because I've never in my life been irresponsible. I've never been in the situation of someone telling me I had to do something for my own good that I wasn't already doing.... because I've always done everything I'm supposed to do. And I've independently chosen to do many things that were good for me but that I didn't necessarily have to do. Also my parents have always been hands-off, laissez-faire kind of people.
> The only thing I can think of is my dad telling me I should do yoga.... (and I never have). Its not that I'm against yoga, its just that its not a priority and I dont feel particularly inspired. If someone plopped down a yoga mat right in front of me and was like "I'm doing yoga right now, join me!" I'd be like "sure!"
> ...


I've wondered this as well. I'm thinking it has to do with the Nine's tendency to resist exertion and avoid deep contact with their environment. It's natural to avoid doing things you don't want to do, but Nines may not want to do things because they've made themselves indifferent and uninterested through Sloth. I don't think the stubbornness of Nines is necessarily going to show in literal ways though. Average Nines may be receptive and willing to change, and they may really do those things. But they don't fully exert themselves, or, they may change something and then go back into their slumber. I think this is why the virtue of Action is described as embracing the dynamism of reality and being affected and transformed constantly.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Recede said:


> I've wondered this as well. I'm thinking it has to do with the Nine's tendency to resist exertion and avoid deep contact with their environment. It's natural to avoid doing things you don't want to do, but Nines may not want to do things because they've made themselves indifferent and uninterested through Sloth. I don't think the stubbornness of Nines is necessarily going to show in literal ways though. Average Nines may be receptive and willing to change, and they may really do those things. But they don't fully exert themselves, or, they may change something and then go back into their slumber. I think this is why the virtue of Action is described as embracing the dynamism of reality and being affected and transformed constantly.


The way I see it is very much like this song (though I'd say it's more 9w1 than 9w8):






Anime Lyrics dot Com - My Pace - BLEACH - Anime

There's an internal resistance to change and to be changed, like an inner stubbornness. You rather do things your way at your own time, which is usually in a way, not doing at all, because you're not really into it. You just do it because you kind of have to and only to the degree it's necessary, but that's also where your total involvement ends. There's no real presence involved. In a way, I think intrinsically speaking, it goes back to a lack of inner motivation due to not feeling important or having any particular significance. If I don't value myself, then why should I value the effort I put into this and how it is important to me? 

I'd say all gut types have this quality because all gut types are self-erasing in their own ways, but whereas in 8 it's a lot more "my way or the highway" quality (also much more reactive in how an 8 can downplay their own needs in relation to other people and then explode in anger for feeling that people are overlooking their needs), 9 is more passive aggressive about it I suppose, externally nodding and saying "yes, I agree", but their involvement is very rudimentary. Their agreement is more because it is the easier way out, so instead of opting for open conflict like with 8 and possibly 1, their conflict is more on the inner side of things. This is also why 9s can reactively explode after a while, when they feel like they've been pushed around too much. It becomes a lot of "ENOUGH! I AM GOING TO CARE FOR MYSELF NOW!". I think a good example of this is this song by Linkin Park (more 9w8 though):






For 1, it's more "only if it is the right way" sort of logic. Otherwise I think they can be extremely unbending just like 8s can be and a lot of "my way or the highway" kind of deal as well. I am not sure if I fully understand how 1s work in this regard.


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## Recede (Nov 23, 2011)

Entropic said:


> There's an internal resistance to change and to be changed, like an inner stubbornness. You rather do things your way at your own time, which is usually in a way, not doing at all, because you're not really into it. You just do it because you kind of have to and only to the degree it's necessary, but that's also where your total involvement ends. There's no real presence involved. In a way, I think intrinsically speaking, it goes back to a lack of inner motivation due to not feeling important or having any particular significance. If I don't value myself, then why should I value the effort I put into this and how it is important to me?
> 
> I'd say all gut types have this quality because all gut types are self-erasing in their own ways, but whereas in 8 it's a lot more "my way or the highway" quality (also much more reactive in how an 8 can downplay their own needs in relation to other people and then explode in anger for feeling that people are overlooking their needs), 9 is more passive aggressive about it I suppose, externally nodding and saying "yes, I agree", but their involvement is very rudimentary. Their agreement is more because it is the easier way out, so instead of opting for open conflict like with 8 and possibly 1, their conflict is more on the inner side of things. This is also why 9s can reactively explode after a while, when they feel like they've been pushed around too much. It becomes a lot of "ENOUGH! I AM GOING TO CARE FOR MYSELF NOW!". I think a good example of this is this song by Linkin Park (more 9w8 though):
> 
> For 1, it's more "only if it is the right way" sort of logic. Otherwise I think they can be extremely unbending just like 8s can be and a lot of "my way or the highway" kind of deal as well. I am not sure if I fully understand how 1s work in this regard.


Very true about the lack of presence. I have two modes: withdrawing and appeasing. I can either take care of myself or the environment, but not both at the same time. So what results is wanting the world to leave me be, unbothered. To not place any obligations on me and let me withdraw into myself. And when I do have to deal with demands of the world, I'm present without content. Like a vehicle without a driver, and I just get dragged along painfully by it because I'm just doing what I "have to" rather than exerting myself. I deal with the world so I can get back to myself.


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