# Opening the can of worms of Democratic/Aristocratic Dichotomies



## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

I want to understand the Reinin dichotomies better 
and figured that creating a series of threads for that purpose is in order.
I have a basic understanding of them, but feel that I could learn more.
I'd like to work myself systematically through them
and have selected Democratic/Aristocratic as the next.

This is not an attempt to take a particular stance, 
so feel free to share whatever point of view seem relevant.
With whatever arguments that naturally follow.

Reading up on it I find that it has to do with hierarchy or lack thereof.
It also seems to have with how one group and label other people.

The source material I'm aware of can be found here

http://personalitycafe.com/socionics-forum/786738-random-strat-stuff-fractals-reinin.html

Democratic and aristocratic - Wikisocion


----------



## DavidH (Apr 21, 2017)

This is one of the more directly divisive ones. Often misunderstood as well. Often pisses people way the hell off as well.

Those who preach equality actually want superiority. Those who preach classes actually want independence.


----------



## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

DavidH said:


> This is one of the more directly divisive ones. Often misunderstood as well. Often pisses people way the hell off as well.
> 
> Those who preach equality actually want superiority. Those who preach classes actually want independence.


Yeah, it is quite a controversive landscape, even the names are somewhat controversial.
I find that the anime "Legend of the Galactic heroes" captures the essence of it.

I feel I understand it on a cognitive function level.
NF vs ST = Higher value aspirations vs Sensory logic (Aristocratic)
NT vs SF = Intuitive logic vs Sensory value aspirations (Democratic)

As for the need to get into a position of superiority,
that can be explained by quadral complexes.
Cause no one is exempt from that pressure and even if ones dual don't pressure ones PoLR
even they will pressure ones quadral complex.

http://personalitycafe.com/socionics-forum/740810-quadral-complexes-stratiyevskaya.html

We are all doomed to fight over these fears, and the real or imagined threats to them.

*EDIT:*
I might also mention that the quadral complex is an emergent feature of 3 dichotomies.
Democratic/Aristocratic
Merry/Serious
Judicious/Decisive
Hence this dichotomy is only partly contributing to the phenomena.
I actually found it easier to understand the complexes over its parts.
But that is besides the point, cause now I'm working on the parts


----------



## DavidH (Apr 21, 2017)

Well to be honest, it really doesn't affect most people. Main reason why most people don't watch the mass media channels now is due to them being extremely democratic, both sides of the fence. It's just common knowledge to most people what those people are trying to do. Same on the opposite side hahaha


----------



## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

DavidH said:


> Well to be honest, it really doesn't affect most people. Main reason why most people don't watch the mass media channels now is due to them being extremely democratic, both sides of the fence. It's just common knowledge to most people what those people are trying to do. Same on the opposite side hahaha


Yeah, I know.
Pros and cons with everything.
But, regardless of the merits or disadvantages of the outcomes of those two "world orders" 
I'm kind of looking for a way to label them adequately here.
Just like I did with the last two.

Maybe it is as simple as this
*Idealists (NF) *
EIE, IEI, IEE and EII 

*Warriors (ST) *
SLE, LSI, SLI and LSE

*Technocrats(NT)*
LIE, ILI, ILE and LII
*
Artists(SF)*
ESE, SEI, SEE and ESI

Would that work in your opinion in terms of making the dichotomy one level more finegrained?
Just like the previous two.


----------



## DavidH (Apr 21, 2017)

If that helps you understand things better, then yes, but at that point you may as well use the four temperaments already used on the forums or the ones used on 16personalities dot com, so there's the common communication.

Maybe do Questim/Declatim next? Hahaha


----------



## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

DavidH said:


> If that helps you understand things better, then yes, but at that point you may as well use the four temperaments already used on the forums or the ones used on 16personalities dot com, so there's the common communication.


Yeah, I'm just making sure that I don't miss something by trusting my old assumptions too much.



> Maybe do Questim/Declatim next? Hahaha


I'm following a list, next up is Process/Result


----------

