# Accuracy of Self-Typing?



## Paradigm (Feb 16, 2010)

How many of you have relied on tests to type yourself?
How many of you have questioned your type, questioned everything of yourself?

It’s easily observable that the PerC’s Enneagram subforums are woefully under-visited. To many, the Enneagram is either too unverifiable or too complicated, so they never get into the system. There are some who try to get into the Enneagram and shy away because it’s too insulting or it “focuses on the negative.” The latter is true, as the Enneagram’s purpose is to own one’s negative traits and become a self-aware, balanced person in the process.

However, I’ve noticed a subtype of people who get into the Enneagram. It’s the type who never questions anything in the system, who takes everything at face value. I consider this to be one of the best ways to mistype. To not question who you are at the core is to not become aware of yourself; to not question man-made descriptions is a little naïve. Questioning is how one learns.

So I have to ask: how accurate can self-typing be, especially if testing is the primary method?

I’ll admit, my primary reason for asking this is the suspiciously high amount of 4 and 5s hanging around on this forum. I’m not sure there’s enough examination/skepticism of test results and of self-bias for these to be so many. It seems to me that testing is nothing more than a mere starting point, a little push in the right direction but by no means a solid foundation or a thing to be Never Go Against.

I don’t intend for this to become an argument, nor am I saying no one can self-type themselves. I’m not calling anyone out, I'm not being intentionally insulting or intentionally rude. This subject does, I think, need some discussion, so that people (mostly newbies) can learn how to start exploring the system and themselves.


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## timeless (Mar 20, 2010)

Testing + Reading + Introspection + Analysis = Good Self-Typing
Testing Alone = Bad


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## goodgracesbadinfluence (Feb 28, 2011)

I think it is harder to type yourself with the enneagram than with the MBTI. There are far fewer free tests available online with the enneagram, and there is also confusion because people like to mix MBTI and the enneagram. And the wings don't help.... I've never figured out if I'm a 4w5 or a 5w4.


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## Paradigm (Feb 16, 2010)

timeless said:


> Testing + Reading + Introspection + Analysis = Good Self-Typing
> Testing Alone = Bad


 Well, yes, that was what I was trying to say. :tongue:

Missing even one of those, especially analysis and/or introspection, means that self-typing would likely result in mistype. The worst part is that self-analysis is often tainted with self-bias, resulting in mistype as well.

-------------

I guess, to have a starting point for discussion:
*Why rely on testing at all?
Why assume your conclusion is correct?
What other methods would help?
How did you find your type?*


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## Paradigm (Feb 16, 2010)

goodgracesbadinfluence said:


> and there is also confusion because people like to mix MBTI and the enneagram.


Another big reason for a mistype, actually. Or, well, two.

First: *
There's little/no correlation between MBTI and Enneagram.* This is a big one I often see popping up. Things like, "Can an ISTP be a 7?" or "Can ESFPs be a 9?" There's a thread on this already. 

Second:
*Some MB-types tend to automatically test as an E-type. *IxTx tend to test as 5s, NF/xxFPs tend to test as 4s, ExxPs as 7s, etc. It doesn't mean they are that type, it just picks up on those traits instead of the true motivations. Which is why this type of thread is required.


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## Razare (Apr 21, 2009)

Well, my new sig. shows what I think about self-typing.  It's difficult when the tests can't get it right.


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## bamboozle (Sep 3, 2011)

Disclaimer: Noob to Enneagram but not afraid to try out some arguments anyway! Shoot me down in flames where I'm wrong.

I can see your point. Self-typing by people who aren't familiar with the system leads to mis-typing; mis-typing leads to misunderstanding of self as well as in interaction and…as you say, one possible outcome of this is a preponderance of 4s and 5s on the forums (though this may be the result of other factors, too). 

But I'm going to ask if it really matters that much. (1) People have to start somewhere; (2) who are people harming if they mis-type except possibly themselves? Enneagram is a tool for personal use. And besides, if people are going to get it wrong, and you really are worried about people correctly typing themselves, then (3) the best place to get it wrong is in a community where people can share ideas. In which case, the problem is as solved as it ever is going to be, if it was a problem in the first place. 

Finally, (4) people have to type themselves because no one else is going to get it right for them. No one can uncover your anxieties for you, no matter how much the Enneagram tries to extrapolate patterns of behaviour (though I realise others may think this is worth arguing about). 

As for the preponderance of 4s and 5s, I can see your point but while many 4s and 5s may be mistyped, at the same time I wouldn't be surprised if there were an awful lot of INFPs and INTPs amongst them. After all, if you're going to see Enneagram as the motivations and anxieties that drive behaviour—as the way you approach life and the world—then it makes sense that you're going to be stronger in certain MBTI functions/perspectives that allow you to behave that way. For example, if we assume that an Enneagram type sticks with you for most of your life, say a kid _is_ a type 5 and so his Holy Idea is omniscience. Well, that's a big ask. The drive to know everything is probably going to also drive him to develop certain ways of thinking and knowing that, when translated to MBTI, might come out as some kind of T just in order to organise all that information. (Although, it could also translate into a super-perceivey function, too…so I'm not saying it has to be just T, just that the possibility is there.) The Enneagram says that 5s tend to be withdrawn which gives you IxTx (though I've read that 5s are more likely to be extraverted thinkers come to think of it). So, yes, you're right. MBTI and Enneagram may not be connected as systems but that doesn't mean that a correlation of some sort in some Enneagram/MBTI types is surprising. (It's not surprising either that people wonder if there's such a thing as ESFP 9. It's true. They might be getting the personality descriptions of MBTI and Enneagram mixed up without looking at the fears/motivations but I wouldn't say there's _nothing_ in pondering the extent to which the two may coincidentally converge.) 


So, my answers to your questions should hopefully be hinted at in the above: 
*Why rely on testing at all?*
Because everyone needs a starting point and it's not a bad thing to figure out what about you and your behaviour is relevant to the system that is Enneagram. 

*Why assume your conclusion is correct?*
Difficult one. I think everyone is going to think they're right at some point. To me, Enneagram is a process of choosing one, connecting the dots to your personal life, logic and approach to the world and figuring out which one fits best. If no one assumed they were right at some point, Enneagram wouldn't be useful as a tool. 

*What other methods would help?*
Discussion and self-analysis

*How did you find your type?*
Still figuring it out. Process of elimination. 



As for accuracy, to my mind, that's really the individual's business because it can't really be anyone else's! My two cents.


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## Paradigm (Feb 16, 2010)

Thanks for replying!



bamboozle said:


> (1) People have to start somewhere


Agreed. Mistyping at first is nothing to be ashamed of. Even mistyping multiple times is normal. All that matters is the journey, learning about yourself.



> (2) who are people harming if they mis-type except possibly themselves? Enneagram is a tool for personal use. And besides, if people are going to get it wrong, and you really are worried about people correctly typing themselves, then (3) the best place to get it wrong is in a community where people can share ideas. In which case, the problem is as solved as it ever is going to be, if it was a problem in the first place.


 Honestly, to me, you answered your own question in this bit :laughing: I'll throw out some random numbers for my explanation.

One small thing about people mis-typing is that I feel they're missing out useful information, but tbh I don't really care. If they're using it in private, for personal reasons, then I don't care. It's their own business and I shant interfere unless they actually bring up the topic.

What really annoys me is the people passing off their 2 behaviors as 9ish, or their 7 behaviors as 3ish. Your third point is quite true, but it's almost taboo around PerC to question someone's type unless they've made a thread about it. I realize that, personally, my lack of tact is part of the problem, but I have noticed that _many_ people will attack if their type is questioned. 

Eventually you end up with a self-perpetuating cycle: PersonA mistypes themself as a 1 and posts around on the 1 forum, PersonB sees PersonA's posts and says "HEY I relate to this dude," PersonB mistypes as a 1, PersonC sees PersonA and PersonB's posts... etc. 

And that's where my problem lies. You end up reading posts by a core-6 who thinks they're an 8 and learn misrepresented information. The information itself isn't bad, even useful, but you may as well not learn it at all if it ends up being for another type altogether. It's a little frustrating when instead of simply focusing on the task of learning there's an extra step of your mind going, "Okay, that's probably not core-x *laboriously opens the other drawer in little internal file cabinet*."



> Finally, (4) people have to type themselves because no one else is going to get it right for them. No one can uncover your anxieties for you, no matter how much the Enneagram tries to extrapolate patterns of behaviour (though I realise others may think this is worth arguing about).


I can't tell if you're devil-advocating this bit or not :wink:

You're right that no one can say "This is what you fear without a doubt" or something similar. That's a personal question. I do think, however, that people can lead another to the right answer, kind of like the Socratic Method. This might be more useful if they have no idea on the system. Still, an outside observer would be a little more objective and less biased, but can never have a final say in what one's type is.



> I can see your point but while many 4s and 5s may be mistyped, at the same time I wouldn't be surprised if there were an awful lot of INFPs and INTPs amongst them.


Oh, you're right. IxTx 5s are likely the most common type of 5 there is. No doubting that. My point was more like being an IxTx =/= 5.

I even agree with the argument that 4 and 5s are predominant because it's the internet, to an extent. Ultimately, though, I think it's just misinformation or the other points previously mentioned.



> It's not surprising either that people wonder if there's such a thing as ESFP 9. It's true. They might be getting the personality descriptions of MBTI and Enneagram mixed up without looking at the fears/motivations but I wouldn't say there's _nothing_ in pondering the extent to which the two may coincidentally converge.


I didn't say it's bad to wonder about correlation, just that it's a common topic.

I know an undeniably ESFP 4w3, so I know there's a possibility of things like a withdrawn extrovert or an aggressive introvert, or whatever unlikely combo there is. Rare, but possible.

-------

Btw:
In my last post, I should have also said that "test as" could be replaced with "relate to" and it'd still be accurate. IxTx tend to relate to the 5 description, but that doesn't mean it's their core, and so on.


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## bamboozle (Sep 3, 2011)

Paradigm said:


> I can't tell if you're devil-advocating this bit or not
> 
> You're right that no one can say "This is what you fear without a doubt" or something similar. That's a personal question. I do think, however, that people can lead another to the right answer, kind of like the Socratic Method. This might be more useful if they have no idea on the system. Still, an outside observer would be a little more objective and less biased, but can never have a final say in what one's type is.


No, I'm not really devil-advocating. The Socratic Method is useful for developing logical ideas but getting at the heart of lifelong fears and desires is something else entirely, in my head. That's what we pay therapists for!—and, even then, they don't tell you anything (so far as I understand it). They're just there to stop you running away from yourself, session after session after session. It's all the individual in the end, though. 

And while an outside observer might be a little more 'objective' (about behaviours, I suppose you mean?), it's a tremendous ask for an outside observer to be expected to know what drives those behaviours. By the logic of the Enneagram system, people can behave in similar ways but what the system will focus on, in the end, is the motivations at work behind the scenes. Different Enneatypes withdraw from the world for vastly different reasons; different Enneatypes become aggressive for different reasons. 




> One small thing about people mis-typing is that I feel they're missing out useful information, but tbh I don't really care. If they're using it in private, for personal reasons, then I don't care. It's their own business and I shant interfere unless they actually bring up the topic. What really annoys me is the people passing off their 2 behaviors as 9ish, or their 7 behaviors as 3ish… You end up reading posts by a core-6 or a core-9 and learning misrepresented information.


True and I see your point. But I can't say much more than, 'That's how learning works.' If people seem to be operating on the forums with the wrong information (assuming that this _is_ a clear-cut case of right/wrong information), then it'll be a bit more confusing but they might learn in the future; if people are operating with the right information, they'll know to look out even if it does feel like a bit of bother for them.

ETA: Basically, what I'm trying to say is that if there is a perceived misunderstanding of the Enneagram system as a whole, then it's safe enough to engage someone in discussion about those ideas with the intent to correct their knowledge. Beyond that (i.e. once we get into arguments about actual type), it can be difficult.


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## Paradigm (Feb 16, 2010)

I apologize if I seemed a little passionate/emotional in the last post. It's something I struggle with as a 6w7, I think.



bamboozle said:


> And while an outside observer might be a little more 'objective' (about behaviours, I suppose you mean?), it's a tremendous ask for an outside observer to be expected to know what drives those behaviours.


Well, they won't know, which is why it's ultimately the reponsibility of the one who wants to be typed. The Enneagram provides starting points for both parties, a way to say "Well, clearly this person isn't ___ because of ___, but they might be ___." 

I agree with your main point here overall, though.



> True and I see your point. But I can't say much more than, 'That's how learning works.' If people seem to be operating on the forums with the wrong information (assuming that this _is_ a clear-cut case of right/wrong information), then it'll be a bit more confusing but they might learn in the future; if people are operating with the right information, they'll know to look out even if it does feel like a bit of bother for them.


In my experience, people cling to misinformation and stereotypes and feel little need to get past them... Can't blame them for it, too much, as first impressions tend to be nasty buggers to get rid of. It's hard to get rid of what is rationalized.


I feel a need to be clear... I'm not suggesting we all run around and "purge the mistyped." That would be extremist and silly! At most I'm hoping for a greater willingness to hear, "Hey, you might be ___ instead of ___," but I'm not sure even that is realistic. I guess the point of this thread is to simply suggest alternatives and say "It's okay and even expected that you question your type."


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## MissJordan (Dec 21, 2010)

Paradigm said:


> Why rely on testing at all?


Do you mean why rely on the personality tests or why rely on taking a test to determine personality?
The former; personal choice.
The latter; there's too much information to process. I wouldn't be able to say what suits me best of the tritypes because there's so many and it's quite confusing (especially to a newbie). I take a test and it does the information processing for me, all the work I have to do is make a few simple choices and it does the grunt work.



> Why assume your conclusion is correct?


You don't, you read and see if it's right for yourself. 
It's the "Reading + Introspection + Analysis" that @timeless mentioned.



> What other methods would help?


Getting a professional to type you, really.
Though I'm sure the expense of such a thing could be avoided.



> How did you find your type?


I have a good understanding of the way my mind works (introspection and intrapersonal intelligence ftw), I took the test and agreed with the results.


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## PixieSaysHi (Oct 9, 2010)

@timeless is right. I've been told numerous times I'm not a type 5. The fact of the matter is, I used all possible methods to figure out my type and finally came to the conclusion that I was indeed a type 5w4. I look at type as a huge square with many small squares fit within it. The huge square equals a enneagram type, for example type 5. The squares within it are all the flavors and varieties of type 5. This includes the wings, the variants, the levels of health, tritypes, etc. 

If you look at the very center squares within the large square, you get the stereotype (this is where the bulk of the type 5 variety would be...example, 5w6); however, if you look all the way down in the very corner of the large square, you may find a type 5w4, myself, with an almost tie of type 4 and 5 traits. This person will present very different from a type 5 flavor from the center of the main square.

Have I lost you, yet? Now, if you take that very large type 5 square (with all it's mini squares within it, i.e. flavors of type 5) and create a linear pattern of each of the 9 enneagram types (the 5 square being between type 4 and 6) you will notice that the one 5w4 flavor down in the corner of the main type 5 square butts up against another 4w5 from the type 4 main square. This is where you get the people who can't tell if they are 4w5 or 5w4....they have so many traits of both. The visual in my mind looks similar to a quilt.

So I do understand why people assume people are mistyped, and I do believe there are a lot of mistypes, but ultimately, a person who really analyzes the system, talks to people irl who know the person, etc, can figure out her own type. 

Hope this makes sense. It is late and I often have difficulty putting my ideas into verbal/written format.


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## bamboozle (Sep 3, 2011)

Paradigm said:


> I apologize if I seemed a little passionate/emotional in the last post. It's something I struggle with as a 6w7, I think.





> I feel a need to be clear... I'm not suggesting we all run around and "purge the mistyped." That would be extremist and silly! At most I'm hoping for a greater willingness to hear, "Hey, you might be ___ instead of ___," but I'm not sure even that is realistic. I guess the point of this thread is to simply suggest alternatives and say "It's okay and even expected that you question your type."


Oh, not at all—to both. You weren't that emotional and I didn't think you were suggesting a purge. I also agree with the spirit of your intentions. I am always on the side of questioning and blurring certainty …or try to be.



@PixieSaysHi: Didn't lose me at all. I like the visual.


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## electricky (Feb 18, 2011)

*Why rely on testing at all? *

Because some of them are good at matching your perceptions of your motivations and fears to a likely type. It's a good starting point.

*Why assume your conclusion is correct?*

I assume nothing..... I've probably got the right type this time because it's scarily accurate when looking at my entire life on a deeper level, despite some of the details in the descriptions. The descriptions make it seem like type 7s are too busy distracting themselves by doing stand-up while intoxicated to ever see life on a deeper level. That's not my style, but it is true that remaining serious on topics like this is like practically burning my very being, so I think I'll stop there  

*What other methods would help?*

Group interview maybe? I've already done a lot of the methods.

*How did you find your type?*

Several tests, comparing/contrasting good descriptions of the motivations, fears and levels, integration/disintegration points, a subjective scary sense of "wow, that is really me isn't it," a friend who has also studied enneagram who thought I was a 7 from the beginning but didn't want to tell me, and the power of magic........

I settled on my 7ness before I settled on my ExxPness. There was a time when I thought that such combinations were so strongly related that they were almost laws.... that time is _staying_ in my past.


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## suicidal_orange (May 6, 2010)

As someone who's seriously trying to type myself at the moment I welcome this thread. I've never felt so empty and fake as I do now, it really is negative but that's the point. Accepting what a test says is unthinkable as the whole way through I think "but..." but I think forced choice tests, if answered honestly after introspection, do have their place. 

*Why rely on testing at all?*

Even after introspecting and observing all my negative traits I cannot trace my motivation. I recently did the full RHETI for the second time while thinking I'm probably a 3 or 6 (which I expected to increase my score on those types) but that's not what it showed. 


```
Type				26-10-2010	24-10-2011	Change
Type 1, The Reformer: 		10		21		+11
Type 2, The Helper: 		9		11		+2
Type 3, The Achiever: 		17		18		+1
Type 4, The Individualist: 	23		14		-9
Type 5, The Investigator: 	[b]25[/b]		22		-3
Type 6, The Loyalist: 		18		15		-3
Type 7, The Enthusiast: 	11		9		-2
Type 8, The Challenger: 	11		10		-1
Type 9, The Peacemaker: 	20		[b]24[/b]		+4
```
This test suggests that I'm not in the image triad (which goes contrary to "The Wisdom of the Enneagram" book which says Image = past, which I no doubt am stuck in). Instead it still says I'm a 9 (or a 5 - the most common mistype for an "intelligent" male 9) but I still wont believe it. Tests are too easy, I'm convinced (rightly or wrongly) that I'm untypable by a test.

*EDIT:* What I was trying to say here is that by not testing as I expected I took it as signifying that I don't have an accurate perception of the types I was considering, as subconsciously I couldn't pick out the stereotypical behaviours of those types when they came up. 

*What other methods would help?*

Meeting a professional and attempting to explain myself likely wouldn't work, I'd present a very one sided view depending what trait I'm focusing on this week. I'm not sure about a group interview either as I'd be so consciously trying to "be myself" I'd just come over as unnatural and lacking in confidence, when in reality I greatly exaggerate my competence in my head but don't shout about it. Whether for myself or for others I want to be perfect in all things but it's impossible to focus on all of them at once so I pick one, and that's what would present on the day. I'd leave feeling "but what about ..." and doubt the outcome just as I would a test.

Relying on those who have spoken to me for a while is better as they will have seen more than one weakness, but do they really know the system? Have I expressed myself clearly enough? Are they seeing me or an idealisation of me? 



Paradigm said:


> Eventually you end up with a self-perpetuating cycle: PersonA mistypes themself as a 1 and posts around on the 1 forum, PersonB sees PersonA's posts and says "HEY I relate to this dude," PersonB mistypes as a 1, PersonC sees PersonA and PersonB's posts... etc.


Applies just as much to blurring the perception of helpful others as the person typing themself. I can of course describe very accurately what it's like to be "me" but to present that as an Enneagram type to someone of another type how would they know I'm mistyped to not mistype others based on me?

I've been guilty of posting in many places as the wrong MBTI type but Enneagram I try not to because I feel it's more important to be typed accurately for growth. I still have :blushed: 

*How did you find your type?*

I haven't... I still don't know myself or the system well enough. Will I ever?


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## PlushWitch (Oct 28, 2010)

*Why rely on testing at all?*
For some people their type seems to be instantly clear and they'll also get correct test results - either because they know themselves so well or because their pattern is so extremely obvious. So those people should also be able to rely on their test results...

*Why assume your conclusion is correct?*
...then again sometimes it seems to be clear, but really it isn't because you might think "Oh, I'm such a 4! Everything fits!" But actually you're only a stupid and ordinary 6. (sorry, wouldn't say this if I weren't one...just some frustration :laughing.

*What other methods would help?*
In addition to what has already been mentioned:

Record a video of yourself talking about yourself or about what you do or what you're afraid of or about your wishes...whatever.
And then compare yourself to some (or all if you want to) of the many type videos I have posted in the Enneagram interview threads in each section. Some of those people can also be mistyped. But then again: the big picture will probably be quite correct.

Compare what words you use, what you talk about, how you talk about it, the way you move your head, the volume of your voice (type 5s for example do speak very quiet...as I have heard) the way you look at the camera or don't (well...they mostly have an interviewer which you might not have...so this situation might also be different), the way you laugh, your facial expressions etc. ...

Comparing pictures can also help.

*How did you find your type?*
I'm not convinced I have found it - which means I'm a 6 (or at least have it in my tritype). ...constant questioning... very 6-ish. (lol...yeah...paradox :tongue I test as 4w5 almost all the time, followed by 6, 9 and then 5 (tested as 5 more often in the past, thought I were 4w5 5w4 9w1). I score quite low on 7, but I have a 7 wing on my 6.

Only comparing pictures of myself to pictures of famous people known to have a certain type brought some clarity. And some honest opinion of people who were a bit more familiar with the Enneagram and all the type patterns than I am/was - which made me compare pictures of myself to pictures of famous people in the first place. ...I wasn't convinced of what the more experienced members said, but what I saw was quite along the lines of what they had seen in me.


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

@bamboozle makes excellent points.

One thing I want to point out as that typing by comparison is ridiculous and unhelpful. Hey, so n so is a 4, and I relate to her, so I must be one. Not. So, if that's the method some people are using to self-type. They need to stop. The related smoking out mistypes crusade can be funny, esp. when people don't even know what they are talking about. 


Secondly, being mistyped is an individual's own business. They are, at worst, doing a minor disservice to themselves by thinking they are a type they are not. No one's life /personal development should revolve around a type label and frankly it doesn't. As for telling people what you think their type is on a non-Type me thread, the best way to go about it is telling them privately. I have found that chances of offending people or making them feel like you are 'imposing' on them are a lot lesser when you do it in private instead of bringing it up on completely unrelated threads. It not only causes annoying derails; it's counter productive.

Thirdly, I have paid little attention to tests. Self reporting bias is a big problem so is the wording of questions and answer choices. Tests...meh...don't care for those. @PlushWitch and I have had our 'tests' related argument on the INFJ forum 

The best way is to read as much as you can. Develop a strong theoretical base. Read exhaustively, think critically, be honest with yourself and set aside time for self reflection. In case you come across someone more skilled, ask them for resources etc. If someone is just starting off, I am going to suggest that they write down their core motivations, fears etc. before they even start reading type descriptions. This way you can somewhat avoid the pitfalls that come with glorifying a certain type and adjusting one's self image to conform to said type OR demonizing certain types and stubbornly refusing to identify negatives that coincide with that type.

If you have reached a point where you have extracted a lot of information, understand how the Enneagram works, and are confident about how it relates to you, then you have reached your decision. It takes a lot of effort and time. I don't see why people should cast doubt on their conclusions. If you are *not *sure, you haven't concluded anything yet. Granted, your impression of yourself may change over time, esp. if you are still young. In this case, it helps to see the process as a journey. The destination being heightened understanding, instead of wanting to slap on a label in haste.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

I entirely agree with Timeless.


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## fotomoose (Sep 21, 2011)

timeless said:


> Testing + Reading + Introspection + Analysis = Good Self-Typing


I did that with MBTI so I'm pretty solid about my type there. But with Enneagram I just took the first result I got and left it as that, as I can't really see how much more it'll help me understand myself after having studied myself using MBTI, which I did extensively. If I had found Enneagram first it would probably be the other way around and I would have just accepted the first MBTI result I got.


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## PlushWitch (Oct 28, 2010)

hazelwitch said:


> One thing I want to point out as that typing by comparison is ridiculous and unhelpful.


Well, I do agree to a certain extent: Just because you can relate to something someone writes on the forums you're not necessarily the type they think they are. But this is subjective comparison that you do from inside yourself. However, if you make a video of yourself, you'll get a much more objective view on how you come across to other people. And if you see how you come across, you will also be able to see how others of certain types come across and see similarities and differences. It might not be a convenient way to find your type for everybody since not everybody will be able to see the patterns. But for some people it is.


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## Spades (Aug 31, 2011)

I agree with the OP! The tests available are mediocre at BEST, and I was led to believe I was the wrong type for years and years.
*
Most 4's and 5's are complete mistypes*. I know because the way they are portrayed are "If you value individuality and emotions, you're a 4!" and "If you value knowledge and detachment you're a 5!" Those can fit most people, but it's not made clear enough that the *core anxieties* are what determine your type, not your interests or behaviour or appeal. For years I mistyped as a 5 because I'm intellectual, curious, detached, etc. I recently realized that I'm actually an 8 because my fear is not having control of my life/circumstances and I'm driven by passion, unlike a 5. Questions like "Are you domineering" I would answer "no" to because I'm not forceful, I would just rather lead than follow (also I'm 8w9 and self-preserving).

The biggest reason for mistypes, confusions, unknown types, etc, is with understanding the enneagram theory outside of the tests. The same can be said about MBTI.. I see grand mistypes all the time, but I think it's a bit easier to figure out your type.

Also thanks to @timeless for all the info on enneagram =)


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## lirulin (Apr 16, 2010)

If we're talking about users of this forum specifically, I would say it doesn't help that the enneagram sf aren't so active. It is easier to spend time on an mbti sf where your differences should eventually become obvious if you are a mistype than to do so on enneagram, when there are less references. So one might tend to rely on tests more. I think there might also be less motivation to fine-tune the typing in some ways - since the forum is more heavy on mbti there seems to be more a focus on that typing, and enneagram typing can be a bit...absent-minded. Like collecting the whole set, in terms of theories, but you spend the most time on mbti and that's the only one you actually thought about for any significant period of time. So many may fall into the never question anything type for enneagram, but not for mbti.

I do agree that typing by seeing who you relate to can be risky, but then so can tests. I originally typed as a five, not because I thought it was supposed to be an INTJ, as I didn't know about the supposed correlations at the time, but because I read the description and it felt like I was reading about myself - including and most especially the core anxieties. And I was, really, because five is still in my enneagram - but seeing the way the other fives would give up on people where I would continue on a suicide mission because I wanted things to be right...well, the one that I could also tell was part of my enneagram did seem to be stronger, growing especially so after certain life changes. I didn't, though, relate so strongly to the one description, because I always considered perfection a stupid, irrational expectation - but it is true that in some sense I consider it the best way of conceptualising a goal, even if I never expect to meet it. And I didn't relate to the idea of following rules even slightly - but I follow the demands of my ideals even to my own detriment. Once I compared myself to other fives, I looked in more detail and it became clear I was a one primary, five secondary - though I still test as a five. 

I _do _think it can be misleading to have mistypes confusing people who are trying to figure things out, and I have called out a few who were blatant and/or trying to tell a n00b what their type was when they didn't even know their own, but in general, mistypes are fine if you don't lock the door on the conclusion; it can be part of a process. And then some people can still give very good information on type without actually knowing themselves enough to know their own, so it all depends.

I wouldn't be surprised though if, given this environment, we did have a higher proportion of 4s and 5s than one would expect to see irl. This isn't exactly a random sample. Same way INFPs are the most common type on the board - but hardly IRL. As much as these types are rare, I think it would be just as much an issue if people mistyped because of the idea that they couldn't be 4 or 5 because they're not special and if they ever think that they are probably wrong because there are so many mistypes.


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## luemb (Dec 21, 2010)

Self-typing can only be accurate if you know yourself. Attempting to figure out yourself by asking "do I relate to this description?" doesn't seem like an effective way to become more self-aware. I think a more generic search for self by looking at the core ideas, ex: motivations, with some sort of examples or more specific questions to guide an individual's progress in the right direction, would be more helpful. 

I actually realized my type after someone gave a really good description of a 6, and my thought was "I didn't know that was a possibility, I thought everyone lived and thought in a similar way to me." (I think I have a lot of 6 friends.) Perhaps figuring out differences is more helpful than similarities.


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## Delphyne (May 15, 2011)

lirulin said:


> I wouldn't be surprised though if, given this environment, we did have a higher proportion of 4s and 5s than one would expect to see irl. This isn't exactly a random sample.


Actually I think there’s a lower number of 4s and 5s around here than at other personality boards (proportionally to the active members) as it provides an atmosphere which isn’t very inviting for actual 4s and 5s. The 4 forum is firmly in the grip of mostly 6w7s, some 6w5s, 9w1s and the buddying and relating style which is happening there is something which 4s can hardly stand.
6w7: Oh, I can relate so much to you. 
4w5: Excuse me? You ‘re NOT like me. 

5s think it’s not worth their time if their thoughts come to nothing. Especially if typings of other people are not welcomed. Why bother? 
And really this board with it’s pool of awards, thanks and so on doesn’t make for a serious way of talking about the enneagram which would invite more 5s. So someone gets an award for having made a friend? For having posted x posts? It speaks for quantity not for quality. 

If a teaching gets popular it gets watered-down. Those who want to learn will find a way.


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## lirulin (Apr 16, 2010)

Delphyne said:


> Actually I think there’s a lower number of 4s and 5s around here than at other personality boards (proportionally to the active members) as it provides an atmosphere which isn’t very inviting for actual 4s and 5s. The 4 forum is firmly in the grip of mostly 6w7s, some 6w5s, 9w1s and the buddying and relating style which is happening there is something which 4s can hardly stand.
> 6w7: Oh, I can relate so much to you.
> 4w5: Excuse me? You ‘re NOT like me.
> 
> ...


Yes, I know a four who rants about that sf. I wasn't aware anyone paid attention to the awards though. I mean, I think they are pathetic, but they are also very much in the background. That they are there neither makes me post nor hinders me from posting. I basically just forget they are there.

I'm not saying that this is the ideal 4/5 environment. But I can see it holding an attraction similar to the discussions on why you see so many of the rarer mbti types here also. Perhaps not compared to other forums (though I'd be interested to hear which ones you think are better) but in comparison to real life, I could see both those types living on the internet.

Either way, the point remains that it isn't a random sample, so divergances from the standard ratios is more likely than not. And I don't think holding up the averages as a tool to discredit people's self-typing has a universally positive effect, in consequence.


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## Delphyne (May 15, 2011)

lirulin said:


> Yes, I know a four who rants about that sf. I wasn't aware anyone paid attention to the awards though. I mean, I think they are pathetic, but they are also very much in the background. That they are there neither makes me post nor hinders me from posting. I basically just forget they are there.
> 
> I'm not saying that this is the ideal 4/5 environment. But I can see it holding an attraction similar to the discussions on why you see so many of the rarer mbti types here also. Perhaps not compared to other forums (though I'd be interested to hear which ones you think are better) but in comparison to real life, I could see both those types living on the internet.
> 
> Either way, the point remains that it isn't a random sample, so divergances from the standard ratios is more likely than not. And I don't think holding up the averages as a tool to discredit people's self-typing has a universally positive effect, in consequence.


There are divergance though even among the INTPs, INTJs, INFPs and INFJs 5s and 4s are rare. As for the INFPs, you can find a higher amount of them around here though there are also quite some people mistyping as INFPs due to some misunderstanding of what Fi is about. For instance I came across people making an emphasis for standing up for their ideals and seeing this as Fi which it isn’t. 

Some years ago there was a higher amount of 4s and 5s posting at the enneagraminstitute board though after the administrators came up with their policy of not typing a person if he or she doesn’t invite it most of them migrated.


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## lirulin (Apr 16, 2010)

Delphyne said:


> There are divergance though even among the INTPs, INTJs, INFPs and INFJs 5s and 4s are rare. As for the INFPs, you can find a higher amount of them around here though there are also quite some people mistyping as INFPs due to some misunderstanding of what Fi is about. For instance I came across people making an emphasis for standing up for their ideals and seeing this as Fi which it isn’t.
> 
> Some years ago there was a higher amount of 4s and 5s posting at the enneagraminstitute board though after the administrators came up with their policy of not typing a person if he or she doesn’t invite it most of them migrated.


Well, I can see standing up for ideals as an _aspect _of Fi, certainly, but claiming it is exclusive to Fi or whatever is indeed silly.

I am not disagreeing that they are rare types. And I know there are also mistypes. But I think it is still obvious that this isn't a random sample either, is all.

My other point being that I find that over-emphasising the idea of the mistypes can have problematic consequences. I have definitely seen more than one case where people have been challenged on their type, not based on any evidence, but because it is a rare type, with random assumptions about how they "want to be different" again, based on no evidence. I think that is a clear misuse of statistics - you need to have at least some reasons why they _specifically_ are another type. People get defensive - and not even just the mistypes. It _can_ create a more hostile environment for the real fours and fives. I'm not saying that this is the intent of the OP, of course, just that it is something to be wary of.


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## Paradigm (Feb 16, 2010)

lirulin said:


> [snip]


I agree with the majority of your post. The glossing over of Enneagram I can understand around PerC, but it kind of makes me wonder *why bother saying what type you are if you don't care?* It's like saying you have a great understanding of quantum mechanics after taking one class in physics.

Your story is pretty typical of IxTxs, actually, just like the story of an xxFP mistyping as 4 is typical. That's why I'm really enjoying the posts so far from everyone. 



> I wouldn't be surprised though if, given this environment, we did have a higher proportion of 4s and 5s than one would expect to see irl. This isn't exactly a random sample. Same way INFPs are the most common type on the board - but hardly IRL.


I commented on this in an earlier post. Basically I was in agreement with what @Delphyne said: yes, there's probably a higher percentages of 4/5s around here than IRL, but half of _them _are still mistyped.

This might get looked down upon, but I'm actually surprised when people can say, "This is why I am x type," and I believe them. Especially the rarer ones like 4, 5, (Ixxx) 7, and 8.

Related:
It's also annoying to assume that people take this board and say "Well, it seems half of NFs here are 4s, so most NFs will be 4s!" I remember a couple of people using this forum as a way to gauge probability, and I remember people linking to several "studies" (surveys, basically) showing "obvious correlations." I was surprised people took that information as serious, as a reason why (for example) an INFP could never ever be a 2. The sample pool was obviously either biased/tainted or way too small to be useful.



Delphyne said:


> The 4 forum is firmly in the grip of mostly 6w7s, some 6w5s, 9w1s and the buddying and relating style which is happening there is something which 4s can hardly stand.
> *6w7: Oh, I can relate so much to you.
> 4w5: Excuse me? You ‘re NOT like me.*


Yes, this is why I dislike going into the 4/5 subforums >_>

This is also why I think everyone needs to stop getting defensive about questionable self-typing.



> And really this board with it’s pool of awards, thanks and so on doesn’t make for a serious way of talking about the enneagram which would invite more 5s. So someone gets an award for having made a friend? For having posted x posts? It speaks for quantity not for quality.


Yeah, I wasn't aware the awards were actually a thing people paid attention to. It's not like they're thrown in your face or easily identifiable. The only thing is maybe the 1000 and 3000 markers, which are more obvious but still relatively easy to ignore.

But really, why not just ignore that sort of stuff and make decisions based on the information available?


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## lirulin (Apr 16, 2010)

Paradigm said:


> I agree with the majority of your post. The glossing over of Enneagram I can understand around PerC, but it kind of makes me wonder *why bother saying what type you are if you don't care?* It's like saying you have a great understanding of quantum mechanics after taking one class in physics.


It's something to fill in, you read the description, one really seems to fit, yay, your profile is complete. I don't see it as a claim of understanding the way you do. I think to a lot of people it is just a little badge until they really get into it. Some probably treat it the same way as "what Disney princess are you?" - a fun personality thing, but do you _really_ worry about whether you are Belle or not? They care, but less, and differently.

Basically, there are motives other than perfect accuracy. I'm a fan of temporary conclusions myself, they are like the end of a chapter in a book - it organises things so you know where to pick up later. To go out typed, see the reactions, adjust accordingly. Finding a group to fit with could be another reason. Or not knowing how complex enneagram is. Fun.

Claiming a great understanding by writing long theories and explanations when you don't know what you are talking about - that bothers me. Just filling in your type and the occasional almost spammish post - meh.



Paradigm said:


> Your story is pretty typical of IxTxs, actually, just like the story of an xxFP mistyping as 4 is typical. That's why I'm really enjoying the posts so far from everyone.


Yes and no. It is a common mistype, but the reasons will be different. Living with a narcissist where making anything right was an impossibility and so living in my five more which allowed for withdrawal isn't the usual experience, I think.



Paradigm said:


> I commented on this in an earlier post. Basically I was in agreement with what @Delphyne said: yes, there's probably a higher percentages of 4/5s around here than IRL, but half of _them _are still mistyped.


Oh I agree that there are mistypes. I am not questioning that part. I just mentioned the sampling issue; I didn't intend for it to become this big thing nor did I make a claim that most 4/5s were typed properly. I don't think any of us disagree with each other really

We have the same thing with INTJs - some mistypes and people willing to leap down your throat if you exemplify behaviour that isn't perfectly stereotypical...


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## LibertyPrime (Dec 17, 2010)

Imo self typing is the only way to go if we want typing to be economically viable. A person and their motivations, function usage, habits and what have you is simply too complex to type based upon a few posts. It would be impossible to do so based on a few videos either. The only one who really can know himself is the person in question.

Other people run the risk of misinterpreting actions, statements, motivations and so on. Because of this when it comes to personality, there is no substitute for meticulous self analysis and observation of motivations, behavior, tendencies over an extended period of time.

The truth of it is that other people can mistype you as much as you can mistype yourself. The only reliable source is consistency over long period of time. Consistency in observation and test results. There is also no substitute for properly informing yourself about each and every type.

The devil is in the details, no matter how boring details may get -.- and they can get really boring trust me *groans*.

Another factor that can influence how other people see you on the forums is that on the internet people behave differently then in real life. Plus anyone telling you that they know you better then you know yourself just from a few posts is either misguided, wants to derail you and or should not be listened to.

Reliable information can only be extracted from looking at what the data points towards.

May people here, especially those in the xxxJ mindset seem to have preconceived theories and are looking for data that fits the theory, ignoring or rationalizing anything contradictory. This is the definition by which Judging types are defined, not by how messy one's room is.

The idea that may 4s are 6w7 is flawed imo, simply because the bulk of the forum is composed of INFPs. INFP does not correlate well with type 6. With 5, 4 and 9 yes, but not 6. If anyone here read books on the enneagram then they should know that S and J types are the most common type 6. ESFJ, ISFJ, ENTJ, ISFP, ENTP, INTJ, INTP, ENFJ and INFJ are common type 6, ENFP and INFP not really. As we all know there is a sever shortage in S and J types on the forums.

How do you know someone is mistyped? Do you know them in person, for how many years if yes? Conclusions like "Half of them are mistyped." are baseless. Where is the data pointing towards that conclusion? I at least would like to see a statistical analysis, granted that you can prove that they are mistyped. 

If you come with theories about someone's type then at least put the effort in and base it on facts, compile a detailed analysis of the other person (which mind you requires more then what the person said in posts or you saw in a video about them).

Facts back up theories and not opinions. Without sufficient proof an opinion is worth squat.

I'd restrain myself from typing anyone except myself and I do.


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## Paradigm (Feb 16, 2010)

hazelwitch said:


> *As for telling people what you think their type is on a non-Type me thread, the best way to go about it is telling them privately.*


 For some reason, this obvious answer hadn’t occurred to me. It should have. Social graces are confusing. Certainly bears repeating, thank you :happy:



MissJordan said:


> Do you mean why rely on the personality tests or why rely on taking a test to determine personality?
> The former; personal choice.
> The latter; there's too much information to process. I wouldn't be able to say what suits me best of the tritypes because there's so many and it's quite confusing (especially to a newbie). I take a test and it does the information processing for me, all the work I have to do is make a few simple choices and it does the grunt work.


 That implies a lack of ability to understand the information. And sounds a little lazy. It’s not wrong, but there’s better methods.

For the record, since there does seem to be a bit of confusion, I’ll clarify my question. I wasn’t asking “why use tests” but more, “why use test as a definitive answer?” It leads up to my next question and implies that they can’t always be trusted.



PlushWitch said:


> *Why assume your conclusion is correct?*
> ...then again sometimes it seems to be clear, but really it isn't because you might think "Oh, I'm such a 4! Everything fits!" But actually you're only a stupid and ordinary 6. (sorry, wouldn't say this if I weren't one...just some frustration :laughing.


 You might be interested in this thread.

There’s nothing wrong with 6s... *is biased* :tongue:


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

@Paradigm

A few things:

Not 'calling out' mistypes on unrelated threads is not about social graces. It is about not derailing threads, and it is about respecting the fact that some people can interpret it as an unwelcome interference. @Promethea made a similar point on the ENTJ sub-forum where a member was having some trouble with the mistyping deal. 

If you PM them, you are respecting their privacy regarding something they may not be interested in discussing publicly. 


Also, being on a typology forum doesn't mean that one is obligated to be serious about the typing thing. I, for one, have been changing my type labels every now and then since I came back. I am neither an ESTJ nor a Type 4. I am surprised no one called out my non-4ness 

The whole typing process should be seen as educational. Instead of being so annoyed by mistyped people that you don't feel like visiting certain forums, it's better to become more accepting of the fact that people are at different points on their journey. Some are young and have recently started to discover themselves. If your goal is to help them, you can do it when they explicitly ask for it on a thread OR just PM them. The defensiveness will go down.


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## PlushWitch (Oct 28, 2010)

Paradigm said:


> You might be interested in this thread.
> 
> There’s nothing wrong with 6s... *is biased* :tongue:


Haha, yeah, had come across this thread before. lol
Also had seen that she wasn't a 4 and stuff but rather a 6...

Doesn't change how I feel about being supposed to be a 6 however nice she or some other 6 might be. It's just plain boring...no matter how versatile...you know...? xD


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

A few reasons that I can think of for mistypes:

Some people have many layers to their personality, and its hard to peel through, to get to the core. Personally this was hard for me. There are many coping mechanisms that get built into personality, and in time, those mechanisms seem to work in a pretty seamless way, where you forget whats behind them. I see this in 6s and 3s especially. I think they are the hardest to self-type because of this. A 6 can have many mechanisms to gloss over their anxieties and fears. A 3 can have them to add extensions of substance in places - which makes them think the construct -is- the personality. 

Bad information/stereotypes. 
These things turn people off of certain personality types - especially again, 6 and 3. 6s are made out to be the less desirable personality type, because of wrong stereotypes like 'can't think for themselves, can't have an original thought, crippled by their anxiety, etc etc' -- when in fact you will come across 6s who don't seem like 6s because you only know stereotypes.. and they don't really fit. 3s aren't just plastic soulless people.. they really can have genuine emotional depth. 

**And I'm sure some of you could add things about other types to this, but in some enneagram communities, its true that some types are more revered than others. 

4, 5, and 8 seem to be the ones that people generally prefer. They have more desirable -stereotypes-.. but if a mistype really was truly in the skin of any of the above, they would see its not a piece of cake to be those types either. They have their -own- issues, and inner work to do. Getting very close to a 5, I have seen a lot of this first hand. 8s aren't invincible and in perfect mental health necessarily, and 4s can be quite tortured.. -not- just in a picture-perfect novelty sort of way, but in a real way that can be horrible to live with. So yeah - they all have their own problems, and all need work. 

A lot of the trouble with not understanding this is like I said - some of the types will seem more appealing to be, some less appealing. I personally don't display my type anymore after dealing with many attacks in the past over it. Eventually I will probably get over it, but for now I am still pretty angry and sore over it, and I don't feel like inviting more drama.

People need to have a more mature way of dealing with enneagram, imo. Understanding and acceptance of types are different, instead of seeing some as more desirable. I struggled with this in the beginning myself tbh, because of again - bad information that was spread.

Someone mentioned the issue with forcibly trying to correct someones mistype -- or rather, what one perceives as another's mistype. That is another issue. If someone seems open to it, then proceed.. but I have seen a lot of senseless derailing and these tug-o-war games between people over their type. When you get the feeling someone isn't open to this criticism, back off. I understand the feeling it conjures. It can be humiliating to have someone claim they know you better than you know yourself - and sure, thats the theme at play during this 'battle-typing.' I would ask the typer: 'whats it to you' that this person runs around with the wrong type anyway. And being on that side of it myself at times I can say, sure, it can be fucking annoying.. but I think that the majority of those people aren't actually being fake (though sure some certainly are) - I think they are genuinely not seeing beneath the layers in their personality. (A lot of 6 and 3). Sometimes it can take just gently planting some seeds. Show them a motivation in themselves, and show them some good information.. but don't force it. It just could be enough to get them thinkin'.

Lastly, I believe that a lot of people have done a lot of work on themselves without ever knowing what ennegram is, which obscures their type. This is similar to the 'mechanism' thing that I'd mentioned before.. but some healthy types sometimes don't seem as obviously their type as say, the one really showing their ass. (And I think one example out of many here could be a more mature and healthy 6 confused about perhaps being a 9).


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## PixieSaysHi (Oct 9, 2010)

@Promethea good points and i completely agree. i really take issue with the stereotypes. when i first learned of the enneagram, about 15 years ago, i had no bias but tested as a 4w5. looking back, i think part of the reason for this mistype was because i remember looking first at the images above each type. i RELATED to the type 4 image because it showed a sad, depressed artist. type 4 is my very strong wing. 

i kind of glossed over the type 5 because the image showed a male scientist and i felt i had nothing in common with that type. 

for this reason, the stereotypes really piss me off because it can lead to mistypes in two ways: 1. you don't fit my preconceived notion of this type (usually the stereotype or MAIN flavor of the type) and 2. i can't assign myself to this type because i don't relate to its stereotype. 

when it gets REALLY frustrating is when someone truly is a type, yet doesn't fit the stereotype, and that type also HAPPENS to be one which is apparently envied so it APPEARS said person is just trying to be someone she is not. grrrr. the more you protest the more it appears she is so blatantly has no self-awareness, or just trying to be some "cool and trendy" type. 

i never cared what type i was, i just wanted to know the truth so i could grow as a person. i have no desire to lie to myself. (yet even this can be argued that i am not aware i am lying to myself...the logic runs in circles ad infinitum.)

it takes a grounded and courageous individual to be able to both stick to her guns if she truly feels she has identified her type correctly despite disagreement to the contrary as well as someone who is able to let go of the type she may want herself to be despite her own desire to identify with a type that is not truly her own for whatever the reason.


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## aestrivex (Mar 7, 2011)

PixieSaysHi said:


> it takes a grounded and courageous individual to be able to both stick to her guns if she truly feels she has identified her type correctly despite disagreement to the contrary as well as someone who is able to let go of the type she may want herself to be despite her own desire to identify with a type that is not truly her own for whatever the reason.


why does that take courage?


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## bamboozle (Sep 3, 2011)

aestrivex said:


> why does that take courage?


I think some people strongly identify with their type once they've found it. To be closely questioned when you feel that your sense of self is at stake could be potentially harrowing and disturbing—even violent. Not everyone likes confrontation.


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## PixieSaysHi (Oct 9, 2010)

bamboozle said:


> I think some people strongly identify with their type once they've found it. To be closely questioned when you feel that your sense of self is at stake could be potentially harrowing and disturbing—even violent. Not everyone likes confrontation.


Agreed and I might add that some people have been really attacked for their perceived mistype of themselves. This hasn't happened to me personally, but it takes a lot of courage for those people to stand resolute when they know they're right.


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## madhatter (May 30, 2010)

Paradigm said:


> Why rely on testing at all?


I personally think you shouldn't. I mean, I agree with that you need to start somewhere, a point someone made earlier in the thread (but I can't remember whom). But speaking from my personal experience: I am 9w8, but always test as a 5. Before I knew I was a 9, and even now that I know I'm a 9...still, I test as 5. The tests are poorly written, and so are most descriptions. I was mis-typed for a long time, because I just didn't relate to the 9 description. I would still be mis-typing if I believed the tests and descriptions.



> Why assume your conclusion is correct?


I never stop analyzing my type, even now when I'm pretty certain I am correct. There's always room for a little doubt. But, I know my type is correct, because one day I was reading some more advanced material about type 9, and what I read was like a punch in the gut...it hit that close to home. For something as impersonal as a personality system to cause an emotional reaction in me, it must be near the mark. 



> What other methods would help?


Lots of reading, lots of self-analysis, lots of time. Ask someone who knows you well for an objective second opinion if you're having trouble being objective (speaking as a 9 with a tendency to merge, sometimes you honestly can't tell if you have traits or not; an outside perspective is useful in this respect). 



> How did you find your type?


Through research (practically timeless' 5 steps) and through asking questions. I practically scoured the subforum for all the information that I could find. I felt that before I could find my type, I had to understand the system and delve past the superficial. When I first discovered the Enneagram, I discarded it almost immediately...at the time, it was no use to me, undoubtedly because I was mistyped, and 5 told me nothing about myself. When I reached the limits of self-understanding with my MBTI type, I eventually became interested in the Enneagram again. And I started talking with people I felt had a good grasp of the Enneagram, who I could learn from. I took their advice and started reading the motivations of the types. Which is how I came to conclusion that I'm a 9. I wasn't too happy with that conclusion; still not, but I'm learning to live with it.


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