# 3-ish insecurities vs 6-ish insecurities



## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

could someone explain to me the differences? both some of the external differences and the root causes of these types of insecurities.
would a 3 ever feign insecurity for attention or be a wolf in sheep's clothing?


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## rapturedlight (Jul 6, 2012)

3 insecurities - fear of failure in whatever goals they have set themselves, fear of being seen as lazy.

6 insecurities - fear of not having security, fear of betrayal. 

If you're willing to accept a massive generalisation, I would say the insecurities of a 3 rest in the realm of work, whereas the insecurities of a 6 are in relationships, and within themselves.


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## Bumblyjack (Nov 18, 2011)

3: inadequacy/ineffectuality/irrelevancy
6: exclusion/alienation/abandonment


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## Ace Face (Nov 13, 2011)

I can seem like a wolf in sheep's clothing, but I only bite when necessary. I _can_ be devious, but I prefer not to be. 

I like @Bumblyjack's answer for 3. For me, it does hold true. I can't speak for 6s on the description he gave for them though it does seem accurate to me.


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## Paradigm (Feb 16, 2010)

I might be biased towards 3w2 sx-lasts, I know a lot of them...
(*EDIT:* This turned out to be highly implicative about 3s insecurities. Basically, they're insecure if they don't look their best, can't do their best, aren't seen at their best. Being seen as insecure would be a weakness to them, which would conflict with their need to look competent.) 

*Image, looks*
- I've had a couple of 3s _strongly_ imply to me, "People who don't look good should stay inside." They place huge importance on how they look, how good their clothes are, etc. Anything to look polished. One told me she couldn't live without a hairdryer, in complete seriousness (wut?). A lot of them outright refuse to buy clothes from a "lowly" department store and are the types who must buy designer style. They refuse to show themselves if they're having a bad hair day or have "nothing" to wear. I've known one 3 for 5+ years and we're pretty close, but I've still yet to see him in lounge clothes (even though he's seen me in pajamas before), and it'd be an embarrassment to him if he let me see 'em.
- As you can probably guess, I don't really care about this stuff. My worries are basic social anxiety stuff, mostly. I'm more "heady" and pragmatic in these matters. I dress for myself, for comfort and usability. I don't waste time on my hair--or much of anything--because I don't have the energy. Frankly, people are going to think I look weird anyway (I'm handicapped), so why bother trying to look normal... More or less. As I say in response to their implications, "If I cared about how I looked, I'd never leave my house," which actually makes them shut up and rethink for a second (they at least like me enough to let me leave the house ).

*Interaction (faces/masks)*
- Most all of them have a "professional" mask, with maybe the exception of one female 369 (who has more of a "hostess" face, but she's more focused on gender stereotypes). I tease one of them about how _everyone_ loves him because he can be so charming--and the scary thing is it's _true as frick_ (I've seen it in action). Not all 3s have this ability, but they _are_ able to, at least, come off as friendly and likable. Most of them seem freaked out when it doesn't work, when someone doesn't fall for it. 
- Seriously, I can't do this. I'm a 6w7, so apparently that means most people like me (>_>), but I do absolutely nothing to myself to influence this. I don't really "change." Tbh I don't think most 3s realize when they don their masks, but it's a noticeable difference from the 6's interaction style. When someone doesn't like the 6, well... It depends on the 6 as to how they'll react. Myself, I get scared that they're going to hurt me somehow, via rumors or physical intimidation or anything. I usually just keep an eye on the situation and avoid the person, a wary watchfulness.

*Double-attachment (personal theory)*
- Somehow, most of the 3s I know are 36x. (The attachment types are 3, 6, and 9, just for the record.) There's this weird thing that I've seen happen, even with the 8-fixers. They actually stay in bad situations, usually relationships, for longer than they should. It's not usually _overtly_ bad, but just things they should distance themselves from. It's like they're telling themselves that they should stay because they _might_ not find anything better. A lot of them won't even talk to the person to fix the problem (even if it's minor).
- The reason I think it's a double- and triple-attachment problem is because I don't see it happening nearly as often in people who are even core-attachment. Everyone is different, of course. I'm core-attachment and I have to kind of talk myself into doing something about "it," but I usually do. And I've noticed that my 974 friends are actually more proactive than some of my 36x ones (but not as traditionally "successful").

(EDIT2: Might probably make a follow-up post detailing more 6 insecurities.)


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

I have more of an anecdote than a list, because I explored exactly this when I dealt with an extremely insecure and vengeful 6-3-8 who fixated on me about six months ago and really showed me what this tritype looks like under extreme stress.

(The person I mention is not active on this forum, hasn't been for ages, and the other that I will briefly mention is in the same situation.)

Because of some tangle with me, and then the paranoid delusions that his imagination came up with, he perceived me as a threat to his security 6*. It didn't stop there however, because some of it was made public, he also perceived a threat to his image 3*. His particular image was "I'm an 8" and he tried to maintain the image by staying mostly quiet. (I know of another who fits this m.o. exactly, though not nearly as unhealthy, who wants the same image and uses the same technique of staying very quiet so they don't expose enough evidence. I'm certain that each of them have doubts about being an 8 and are strongly using denial to cope.) He wanted to maintain the appearance of being unaffected. When I got to him and it started to crack, he flailed a lot and the flailing made him angrier, more flaily, and the facade crumbled.

I was typing the riled up angry little man as he was crusading after me, and the pieces started to fall together as his paranoia became over the top, and comical. The posturing was pretty epic too. There was all of this demonizing and blatantly lying about me to work up some strawman sort of figure to then show this pack of lies off to the people in his online community. This again is a mixture of extremely paranoid riled up unhealthy 6 rationalizing how this perceived threat is hitting him from all angles (examples would make it too personal, I Just want to use it as a vague example). And scorned 3 who is flailing to save a tarnished image in front of the group of people who they feel are looking on (bit of 6 attachment in there too, with "his public" "looking on"). 

All in all, an unhealthy combination of 6 and 3 can make for a very delusional paranoid narcissist. If you hit them just right, you can really make them feel like the rug has been pulled out from under them. Public shame and threaten their sense of security and you have one riled up little gremlin chasing you around. 

The experience really illuminated for me, the differences between the way insecure unhealthy3 v. 6 manifests.


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## TaylorS (Jan 24, 2010)

*3s* are an Image/Heart type and their big issue is fear of looking like a failure. Note that whether they actually ARE a failure or not isn't the issue, the issue is that *they feel that other think they are a failure*, it's a fear based on image, how others see you.

*6s* are an Anxiety/Head type, their big fear is lack of security, either physically or within relationships. *They look for something to hold onto so they can stop being afraid, but then at the same time they worry that their crutch with abandon them or stab them in the back.* A 6 who grew up being abused or neglected will often have traits of Borderline personality disorder, lashing out at any acquaintance that they fear is "abandoning" them; "I hate you... don't leave me!!!".


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

Bumblyjack said:


> 3: inadequacy/ineffectuality/irrelevancy
> 6: exclusion/alienation/abandonment



well put
in my own words:
3- inadequacy/loss of worth/being shamed due to incompetence/failure esp. in a way that threatens the image a 3 works hard to live up to and present to the world (very concerned with how they're seen)
6- loss of support/exclusion and abandonment/loss of secure grounding (be it security rooted in trusting one's mind, security derived from groups such as family and friends, online communities[ lol @Promethea 's post  etc.])


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## Alejandro (May 26, 2011)

Thank you guys for posting this. It helps me clarify that I am indeed a 3 rather than a 6!


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## sodden (Jul 20, 2009)

Paradigm said:


> *Double-attachment (personal theory)*
> - Somehow, most of the 3s I know are 36x. (The attachment types are 3, 6, and 9, just for the record.) There's this weird thing that I've seen happen, even with the 8-fixers. They actually stay in bad situations, usually relationships, for longer than they should. It's not usually _overtly_ bad, but just things they should distance themselves from. It's like they're telling themselves that they should stay because they _might_ not find anything better. A lot of them won't even talk to the person to fix the problem (even if it's minor).
> - The reason I think it's a double- and triple-attachment problem is because I don't see it happening nearly as often in people who are even core-attachment. Everyone is different, of course. I'm core-attachment and I have to kind of talk myself into doing something about "it," but I usually do. And I've noticed that my 974 friends are actually more proactive than some of my 36x ones (but not as traditionally "successful").


Yes! My husband who I'm pretty sure is a 369 (self-pres) is like this with his corporate job (not relationship- he seems happy in that respect). He hates it, but he's convinced he would never find anything better. (Truthfully, he's well paid, good benefits, lots of vacation, he's a supervisor- so as you say, not terrible. It has its pros.) Due to the positive aspects of the job he's stayed there for, holy crap, fifteen years, and probably will for ten more. This is completely bewildering to me- if I hate a job I'm out asap. I begged him several times to quit in the past but now I've given up.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

I actually relate a little more to the 3-ish insecurities than the 6-ish ones


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## Inguz (Mar 10, 2012)

Promethea said:


> I have more of an anecdote than a list, because I explored exactly this when I dealt with an extremely insecure and vengeful 6-3-8 who fixated on me about six months ago and really showed me what this tritype looks like under extreme stress.
> 
> (The person I mention is not active on this forum, hasn't been for ages, and the other that I will briefly mention is in the same situation.)
> 
> ...


Holy fuck... This was extremely uncomfortable to read. Get out of my head, please.


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## Inguz (Mar 10, 2012)

I was stunned after reading that, I'll expand point out what's so eerily accurate about @Promethea's post.



Promethea said:


> His particular image was "I'm an 8" and he tried to maintain the image by staying mostly quiet. (I know of another who fits this m.o. exactly, though not nearly as unhealthy, who wants the same image and uses the same technique of staying very quiet so they don't expose enough evidence. I'm certain that each of them have doubts about being an 8 and are strongly using denial to cope.) He wanted to maintain the appearance of being unaffected.


I never claimed to be an 8, but otherwise this is exactly what I do in regards to having an 8 in my tritype. It's my thoughts written down. 



Promethea said:


> I was typing the riled up angry little man as he was crusading after me, and the pieces started to fall together as his paranoia became over the top, and comical. The posturing was pretty epic too. There was all of this demonizing and blatantly lying about me to work up some strawman sort of figure to then show this pack of lies off to the people in his online community. This again is a mixture of extremely paranoid riled up unhealthy 6 rationalizing how this perceived threat is hitting him from all angles (examples would make it too personal, I Just want to use it as a vague example). And scorned 3 who is flailing to save a tarnished image in front of the group of people who they feel are looking on (bit of 6 attachment in there too, with "his public" "looking on").


This could have been me a few years ago, in fact I have done similar things... Not something that I'm proud of.



Promethea said:


> All in all, an unhealthy combination of 6 and 3 can make for a very delusional paranoid narcissist. If you hit them just right, you can really make them feel like the rug has been pulled out from under them. Public shame and threaten their sense of security and you have one riled up little gremlin chasing you around.


I still do this to some extent. Taking opportunities to cause mischief against whom ever I'm angry at. Not a particularly charming character trait. I'm trying to realize that I'm doing it while I'm doing it now.



It was just like the rug was pulled under me reading that post, and it really stung me as to what a shitty character I can have at times. It just feels awful, I lost last nights sleep over it. A lot of the times you can say "Oh I guess I can relate to that", but this was extreme in how it affected me, and how accurate it was. To me this is the best post I've read in terms of my own personal development. I feel gutted. Well written.


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## Tater Tot (May 28, 2012)

I find myself just being terrified of not being important or worth something. :laughing: The funny thing is though is that if I'm getting attention for my problems, like if I'm sick or something, I HATE attention. I only want it if its for something good that I'm doing. I'm not really worried about 6-ish stuff, I've never considered the possibility of me being a 6. 9 is the type that I flip-flop between.


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## Lotan (Aug 10, 2012)

TaylorS said:


> *3s* are an Image/Heart type and their big issue is fear of looking like a failure. Note that whether they actually ARE a failure or not isn't the issue, the issue is that *they feel that other think they are a failure*, it's a fear based on image, how others see you.


I wonder, would the fear of actually being a failure rather than being seen by others as a failure coincide with a different health level of 3? Or does that fit another enneagram type entirely? I tend to be my own worst critic and affirmation from others doesn't really convince me of much if I don't think I succeeded; I know a few others who identify as 3 feel the same way.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Lotan said:


> I wonder, would the fear of actually being a failure rather than being seen by others as a failure coincide with a different health level of 3? Or does that fit another enneagram type entirely? I tend to be my own worst critic and affirmation from others doesn't really convince me of much if I don't think I succeeded; I know a few others who identify as 3 feel the same way.


that's because you're Sp/Sx and have 8 and 7 fixes (and you don't have a 2 wing)


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## Lotan (Aug 10, 2012)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> that's because you're Sp/Sx and have 8 and 7 fixes (and you don't have a 2 wing)


True! Secretly I'm still deciding between 3, 7, and 8, though. Shh. But I think fear of failure in general is still as much of a 3-ish trait as fear of looking like a failure, if only because I can't think of another type it's apply more to except maybe 1.


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> that's because you're Sp/Sx and have 8 and 7 fixes (and you don't have a 2 wing)



Here's the general deal with Type 3, regardless of stacking and fixes:



1. *An image type will always be aware of and concerned with how they're perceived*. They are an "image" type for a reason. They see their "image construct" reflected in others' eyes. I am a 3w4 sp/sx with 7 and 8 fixes, and I am well aware of how I am perceived. I am alright with being disliked or even hated, as long as my work, my accomplishments are given recognition. I am alright with being disliked, as long as I am not disrespected. But, I am not ok with looking like a failure. 


2. No 3 will ever be content with "appearing" like a failure. Giving the appearance of incompetence and/or failure is anathema to a 3.


3. Type 3 will not sacrifice success over inflexibility with image. The image changes instinctively, for the most part, in relation to their goals. This is among what comprises the very core of the type 3 fixation.This applies just as well to 3w4 sp/sx or sp/so assholes such as myself. . 


4. Having high expectations of oneself and not being content with one's work only because others think it's up to par is not the same as being content with looking like a failure. I got an A on a major project, and I was not content because it was below my own standards. When the Professor congratulated me, she got a blank stare, followed by a pause and a cold "Thank You." 

The "looking" part I alluded to above is key to image types. Being highly critical about one's work is not Type specific and not giving two hoots about how good people think it is, if you're not satisfied is not Type specific either.

I have heard this from 1s, 3s 5 (competency triaders), 7s, 6s and so on. Some of the most self-critical (performance wise) and professional people I know are 1, 5w6, 3w4, 7w8 (they're commonly described as hard taskmasters). No one has kicked my ass harder and pushed me harder to succeed (with the obvious exception of myself) than a 1w2 Professor at University and a 7w8 CEO . He drove me to the brink of insanity, but it was worth it. 

And he'll be damned if he was caught dead looking like an abject failure. If there's anyone who will keep up an appearance to not look like their life has fallen apart better than a 3 or 8, it's a 7w8.

I am going to start working on a 3/7 misidentification thread with a 7 from another forum sometime around the weekend. I'll probably post something similar for other types as well, on Perc.


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## Chipps (Jun 1, 2011)

Promethea said:


> I have more of an anecdote than a list, because I explored exactly this when I dealt with an extremely insecure and vengeful 6-3-8 who fixated on me about six months ago and really showed me what this tritype looks like under extreme stress.
> 
> (The person I mention is not active on this forum, hasn't been for ages, and the other that I will briefly mention is in the same situation.)
> 
> ...


This post is so true. Thank you.


I had the same type of run in with another 638 on another site unrelated to typology and he is a self described narcissist. I actually never did anything to him, nor ever spoke one word to him while commenting on the site. But I suspect he didn't like how much other people liked my comments (and said as much) so one day, out of the blue he decided to start attempting to invalidate them with massive strawmans. Worse part is, they believe the shit they say. They cannot be convinced otherwise. Attempting to do so is futile. They are one of the few types I dislike arguing with because you know its pointless. However, they are fun to laugh at.


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## Bricolage (Jul 29, 2012)

The three basically has image issues and the six has existential issues. In pathological states, you might see something like anorexia with threes and paranoia with sixes. Both types can be workaholics but for different reasons: threes are usually running to (a goal, etc.) whereas sixes are running from (insecurity, etc.). :happy:


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