# Feeling Numb



## heavydirtysoul (Jan 13, 2012)

Which type is more prone to being emotionally numb and detached? Why?

When you know that you have to react a certain way, but seem to intellectualize emotions to an extent of feeling numb and indifferent; telling yourself "This is how I must feel...", but not actually feeling anything, and being a distant observer instead.

Thoughts?​


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## Father of Dragons (May 7, 2012)

reckless summer nights said:


> Which type is more prone to being emotionally numb and detached? Why?
> 
> When you know that you have to react a certain way, but seem to intellectualize emotions to an extent of feeling numb and indifferent; telling yourself "This is how I must feel...", but not actually feeling anything, and being a distant observer instead.
> 
> Thoughts?​



The intellectualizing part sounds a bit like type five, but I'm not certain as I have been told I have a weak understanding of that type.

For me, as a nine, I can feel numb in a different sense - simply not being aware of my emotions. It's more that they can be somewhat locked away inside of me; it can take a lot of exertion to find them on my own. If not, I might not be certain how I'm feeling for a long period of time, until something external to me excites emotions in me. Ie, some kind of media, a special person, a particularly lucid realization or moment.


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## Sonny (Oct 14, 2008)

Detached: 5
Numb: 9

What you wrote fits 5 best.


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## heavydirtysoul (Jan 13, 2012)

thwoomp said:


> The intellectualizing part sounds a bit like type five, but I'm not certain as I have been told I have a weak understanding of that type.





Sonny said:


> What you wrote fits 5 best.


Well, I am definitely not a 5. 

Are there any combinations of a 9 and head fix/heart fix/instinctual stacking that would explain the need to rationalize emotions to keep a tranquil mind?


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## HighClassSavage (Nov 29, 2012)

reckless summer nights said:


> Well, I am definitely not a 5.
> 
> Are there any combinations of a 9 and head fix/heart fix/instinctual stacking that would explain the need to rationalize emotions to keep a tranquil mind?


Doubt instinctual stacking makes a difference. To answer your question though, I would say a 9 with a 7 fix (which is what I believe myself to be). Whenever I rationalize my emotions, it's normally in order to prevent myself from feeling shame or guilt for doing or saying something that troubles me. With that said, what you describe in the OP doesn't really sound like rationalization because in order for rationalization to occur, there needs to be an awareness of the emotion in the first place. It's implied in the OP that you're not aware of your emotions and are merely theorizing how you're feeling, which is intellectualizing but not rationalizing. 

Alternatively, I suppose the OP can be viewed from a 1 perspective, though unlikely. Particularly this right here:



reckless summer nights said:


> *When you know that you have to react a certain way*, but seem to intellectualize emotions to an extent of feeling numb and indifferent; telling yourself "This is how I must feel...", but not actually feeling anything, and being a distant observer instead.


Not very well acquainted with enneagram theory but I've heard that 1's can often repress or control emotional reactions that they deem inappropriate (say like taking pleasure in another's pain, for an extreme example). They may tell themselves that they may "have to feel" a certain way about something even if they don't really feel that way.

Don't really think the above interpretation of the OP is in line with what you meant but I figured I might as well share it in order to broaden perspective.


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## wk05 (Aug 26, 2012)

reckless summer nights said:


> Which type is more prone to being emotionally numb and detached? Why?
> 
> When you know that you have to react a certain way, but seem to intellectualize emotions to an extent of feeling numb and indifferent; telling yourself "This is how I must feel...", but not actually feeling anything, and being a distant observer instead.
> 
> Thoughts?​



Everything about this screams 5. 

Your post basically sums up my life, on both a general level and a micro-level (i.e. day-to-day basis). 

Definitely 5.


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## heavydirtysoul (Jan 13, 2012)

Hmm, very interesting. Could my 9w8's wing 8, that becomes 5-like under stress, give me these traits?


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## Sonny (Oct 14, 2008)

reckless summer nights said:


> Hmm, very interesting. Could my 9w8's wing 8, that becomes 5-like under stress, give me these traits?


Can't answer the previous question because its just so 5 =/

9 under stress looks different, they don't observe and detach from unwanted/complicated/negative emotions, they numb them. Picture a pixelating effect used to blur out the faces of people not to be identified on the news, that's what 9s do, it can be in the centre of our vision yet if we do not want to see it we will blur the image and pretend its not there. 5s on the other hand do not blur out anything, it just doesn't impact on them, it's analysed from a detached and fully aware perspective.

Personally I have to intellectualise negative/strong emotions to get at the root in order to understand them, however I cannot detach from that process without also numbing and therefore losing focus, rather I have to go through them analysing as I go. One of the core elements for 9s is a fear of detachment, it's just not our thing to go there because we want and automatically see connections, it is an important distinction between 5 and 9.


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## HighClassSavage (Nov 29, 2012)

Sonny said:


> One of the core elements for 9s is a fear of detachment, it's just not our thing to go there because we want and automatically see connections, it is an important distinction between 5 and 9.


Could you elaborate on this?


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## Sonny (Oct 14, 2008)

TheLaughingMan said:


> Could you elaborate on this?


I'm talking about the fear of loss and separation for 9s, of being separated from self and others. We merge we don't separate from others, we lose boundaries, we see the universe and everything in it including ourselves as interconnected. 5s on the other hand consider themselves distinctly separate, they want boundaries, life is compartmentalised, likes non-involvement, separates from emotions and watches life as if an outsider. One is part of the living breathing universe, the other is outside observing it.


OP, this shows some of what I was getting at with the 5 v 9 attention of detached v numb.



cyamitide said:


> *How Fives Pay Attention*
> 
> A Five's isolation does not depend solely on withdrawal into privacy, or even on putting up emotional walls. The psychic isolation of the type can be seen as the habit of disengaging from feelings in order to observe. This habit of attention can become particularly obvious in stress, intimacy, or unpredictable situations that demand a spontaneous response. In extreme cases of detachment, a Five can attempt to disappear by freezing attention at a spot located just outside of the physical body.
> 
> ...





cyamitide said:


> *How Nines Pay Attention*
> 
> When Nines "go on automatic," they can complete complicated tasks without paying conscious attention to what their hands and bodies are doing. We all have the ability to learn skills and to perform them mechanically. For example, there is the common experience of "waking up" upon arriving home, with no recollection of having made the drive. There is also the example of speed typists, who report that they can fantasize or think about a problem, while turning out reams of accurate copy at 90 wpm.
> 
> ...


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## rajAs (Sep 14, 2012)

Being numb is my favourite part of my passive-aggressive monthly sport


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

reckless summer nights said:


> Which type is more prone to being emotionally numb and detached? Why?
> When you know that you have to react a certain way, but seem to intellectualize emotions to an extent of feeling numb and indifferent; telling yourself "This is how I must feel...", but not actually feeling anything, and being a distant observer instead.=
> Thoughts?​


detached: 3, 5, 7, 9 
numb: 9s, Id types who get burned out or realized that the outside world lacks the means to truly sustain them


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

The more important question is: Why do you feel this way? At surface level I might say 5, but that's a superficial reading of the situation because the truth is, I don't _feel _that I feel anything. Feeling numb is still a feeling or awareness of feeling, or at least, an awareness of an emotional state.

I never feel emotionally numb though I can sometimes react that people seem to expect some emotional reaction from me and I don't understand why because intellectually, why is that required of me? Logically, the situation doesn't require it and I feel that logically, I have fulfilled the expected purpose of being there. I don't think it's even quite right to say that 5s intellectualize feelings, e.g. I should be feeling this but I don't, because that's not quite how 5 intellectualization works in my opinion. Rather, 5 is interested in figuring out what a feeling is, to understand feeling in its entirety. 

As an example. I was at my cousin's wedding some years ago and I was the only other person present at the scene along with my cousin's sister as it was private and we were therefore the only two invited. When the wedding ceremony was over, my younger cousin, being an Fe type (ESTP to be precise), expected me to be openly cheery and happy because this is how Fe operates. I don't operate this way, being an Fi type. I was happy for my cousin but it was an internal experience, solely, and I wasn't _that_ happy for her as if I needed to go tell everyone because it was that amazing. So when my younger cousin tells me that I should tell me my family about the wedding because she was going to, because it was a happy occasion that must be shared according to Fe logic, I just didn't want to. I wanted to tell my family when I thought it was more reasonable to do so. 

What I am analyzing aren't my feelings as in, why am I not feeling something I should be feeling, but what I am analyzing is the entire situation itself and this can already be part noted in my approach in how I am explaining it to begin with: My cousin's an Fe type, she's expecting an emotional reaction from me I cannot perform, and I am not feeling that happy to begin anyway, so to express such open happiness would be wrong and not genuine so I am not going to do it.* Plus, it was just a wedding.* I am feeling happy for my cousin but in the end, it was just a wedding like any other wedding so no need to get so emotionally excited about it. 

Detachment is about detaching from the situation to minimize emotional importance. It's just a wedding. It's just a dead body. It's just a car. Here we can also see how avarice/stinginess gleans through in that one attempts to minimize needs. I don't need to be happy because it was just a regular wedding where extreme expressiveness of feeling isn't required, because being too emotionally expressive drains on my resources because if I express myself too much it starts to lose meaning. 

@Sonny, that 5 description isn't very good or accurate, and I would in fact argue it's very 9-tinted, ironically.


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## heavydirtysoul (Jan 13, 2012)

@ephemereality thank you so much, your post is very interesting. 



ephemereality said:


> The more important question is: Why do you feel this way?


Typically, I prefer to push my reactions to the ultimate extremes and tend to be either very angry or very sad or totally happy; but lately my life has become a monotonous routine. And a part of me believes that a set of mechanically performed procedures is not worthy of my intense devotion, because it is something I am not consciously taking full control of. Therefore, I have made a habit of being numb and detached, keeping energy in reserve. Besides, I value clarity and prefer to keep at a safe distance from ugliness of emotional messes. 

However, my deepest feelings and motivations are often extremely difficult for me to verbalize and I apologize for being quite vague - I am very careful when it comes to expressing myself.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

reckless summer nights said:


> @ephemereality thank you so much, your post is very interesting.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


To be quite honest, what you describe here, it vaguely points far more towards 4w5 than it does 5, or at least some kind of image focus. You put a lot of emphasis on emotions and how you seem to internalize feelings this specific way where they seem to define your person to a large degree, and much of what you write here pertains to Fi-Te in my opinion. This for example, sounds like inferior Te:



> And a part of me believes that* a set of mechanically performed procedures* is not worthy of my intense devotion, because it is something I am not consciously taking full control of.


The reason why I am pointing towards the heart triad is because they deal with emotions and emotional logic; that's why it's called the heart. Feelers with a head core type feel more detached from emotions and see feeling more of a logical evaluation process, and feelers with a gut type tend to, at least based on what I've observed, be more focused on body, bodily states and their relationship to their environment first and how this almost physically feels and is experienced. 

With that said, why do you want to keep a safe distance from ugliness of emotional messes? Is there any particular reason why you avoid it?


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## heavydirtysoul (Jan 13, 2012)

ephemereality said:


> You put a lot of emphasis on emotions and how you seem to internalize feelings this specific way where they seem to define your person to a large degree, and much of what you write here pertains to Fi-Te in my opinion.


I may appear as a Fi user, because my Fe privately processes on an unconscious level, but I totally seek external validation. Though I might be an Introvert. However, I hardly imagine myself being anything other than an -NFJ, I am quite settled.



ephemereality said:


> The reason why I am pointing towards the heart triad is because they deal with emotions and emotional logic; that's why it's called the heart. Feelers with a head core type feel more detached from emotions and see feeling more of a logical evaluation process, and feelers with a gut type tend to, at least based on what I've observed, be more focused on body, bodily states and their relationship to their environment first and how this almost physically feels and is experienced.


I could see myself being 4w3, 3w2, 2w3 or 2w1.



ephemereality said:


> With that said, why do you want to keep a safe distance from ugliness of emotional messes? Is there any particular reason why you avoid it?


I'm not quite sure; I am easily influenced by other people's negative emotions - the littlest thing can take me down and force me to suffer from anxiety. Because I am really unsure of myself and my validity, but I refuse to care about what other people think as long as my life is under control, and tend to isolate myself.


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## heavydirtysoul (Jan 13, 2012)

.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

reckless summer nights said:


> I may appear as a Fi user, because my Fe privately processes on an unconscious level, *but I totally seek external validation.*


Couldn't that be enneagram-related? Image-types definitely seek validation.


> Though I might be an Introvert. However, I hardly imagine myself being anything other than an -NFJ, I am quite settled.


Ok.


> I could see myself being 4w3, 3w2, 2w3 or 2w1.


What is your understanding of 2 and how do you relate to it? There's a lot of 2 there. I don't see you as a potential core 3 as of this moment, but it could change, of course. You do seem to lack the more flamboyant and expressive nature of 3, though. In the end, 3 wants to put themselves out there, being id types. I can also sense some 2-4 connection in you but it's difficult to say what is what. 



> I'm not quite sure; I am easily influenced by other people's negative emotions - the littlest thing can take me down and force me to suffer from anxiety. Because I am really unsure of myself and my validity, but I refuse to care about what other people think as long as my life is under control, and tend to isolate myself.


So you suffer from anxiety when you take on the negative emotions of others? In relation to image, do you think there is any potential cause such as lack of power over yourself or others, or being inauthentic? 

Also, do you find that control is important to you?


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## heavydirtysoul (Jan 13, 2012)

ephemereality said:


> What is your understanding of 2 and how do you relate to it?


 My understanding of the type is quite shallow, but I do not rule out the possibility of being a 2.

However, I can relate to it, because of my vulnerability and selflessness. I have to admit that no matter how hard I try to convince myself that I don’t care, I am truly capable of doing anything for a person I care about. Nowadays, people tend to be a little bit shallow – everyone knows what they want to hear, but nobody actually listens; rare moments filled with kindness and understanding are important to me as a refuge I can retreat to when the outer world is too unkind. 



ephemereality said:


> I don't see you as a potential core 3 as of this moment, but it could change, of course. You do seem to lack the more flamboyant and expressive nature of 3, though.


I relate to 3s’ desire for success; honestly, because of the connection I have between emotional security and success, I feel threatened when there are risks to my chances for accomplishment. 



ephemereality said:


> So you suffer from anxiety when you take on the negative emotions of others?


Yes, absolutely. Above all, I think that projecting your negative emotions on other people is inexcusable, causeless rudeness is unhealthy.



ephemereality said:


> In relation to image, do you think there is any potential cause such as lack of power over yourself or others, or being inauthentic?


Probably no, but I am worried when people have a hard time seeing me as a person I want to be. It upsets me, because I don’t feel safe when I can’t be my own self, because I need something permanent to hold on to.



ephemereality said:


> Also, do you find that control is important to you?


Control over myself. I find it important to take control of emotions, actions and course in life. In particular, power, as an ability to shape my own reality, is very important to me as a source of strength and self-confidence. And something I truly dislike is feeling defenseless, which I’ve mentioned in one of my recent posts:



> Sometimes I still feel utterly weak, vulnerable, and fragile –like I need someone to rescue me, and I absolutely hate that feeling, because I want to feel powerful and to be in control.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

reckless summer nights said:


> My understanding of the type is quite shallow, but I do not rule out the possibility of being a 2.
> 
> However, I can relate to it, because of my vulnerability and selflessness. I have to admit that no matter how hard I try to convince myself that I don’t care, I am truly capable of doing anything for a person I care about. Nowadays, people tend to be a little bit shallow – everyone knows what they want to hear, but nobody actually listens; rare moments filled with kindness and understanding are important to me as a refuge I can retreat to when the outer world is too unkind.


But do you relate to 2's concept of power over people?


> I relate to 3s’ desire for success; honestly, because of the connection I have between emotional security and success, I feel threatened when there are risks to my chances for accomplishment.


Success as in successful image? Because that's what I think type 3 is really about.


> Probably no, but I am worried when people have a hard time seeing me as a person I want to be. It upsets me, because I don’t feel safe when I can’t be my own self, because I need something permanent to hold on to.


Permanent in what sense?


> Control over myself. I find it important to take control of emotions, actions and course in life. In particular, power, as an ability to shape my own reality, is very important to me as a source of strength and self-confidence. And something I truly dislike is feeling defenseless, which I’ve mentioned in one of my recent posts:


That seems rather 4-ish.


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